20 Episode results for "Mike Class"

Jimmy Wales, Founder of Wikipedia, on Wikipedias Real Genesis Story, Best Business Decisions, Understanding Financial Markets, Developing a Questioning Mind, and the Value of Optimism (#528)

The Blog of Author Tim Ferriss

1:48:40 hr | Last month

Jimmy Wales, Founder of Wikipedia, on Wikipedias Real Genesis Story, Best Business Decisions, Understanding Financial Markets, Developing a Questioning Mind, and the Value of Optimism (#528)

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He is founder of the online nonprofit encyclopedia. Wikipedia co founder of the privately owned key inc including it's entertainment media brand phantom powered by kia will serves on the board of trustees. We can media foundation. The nonprofit charitable organization established to operate wikipedia into nineteen. Jimmy launched. Wt social a news focused social network in two thousand six. Jimmy was named time magazines list of the one hundred most influential people in the world for his role in creating wikipedia. Jimmy welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. it's going to be. I've been looking forward to this. It's been many years before we hit record. Seems like one hundred years ninety nine of which you mentioned are the last twelve months since we last each other and it's fun to reconnect and it also gave me an excuse to do. What would seem very strange with anyone. I know on some level which is putting together a dossier of information like some some eastern german intelligence officer in some type of film. But i learned a lot and i also have a whole slew of questions to ask and i thought we would begin with the beginning and would love it if you could just take a little bit of time to describe where you grew up and what your family and education looked like in the early days. If you wouldn't mind. Starting there i grew up. I was born and grew up in the deep south in alabama. But i was in huntsville alabama which is a little bit different from what your typical stereotype of alabama is in that after world war two. They brought all the german rocket scientists over but the huntsville to work on Space program and built space program. All of the science aspects of it were built there in huntsville. So it was. It was a high tech town. There was a point in time i remember. They used to brag about locally when huntsville had the highest capita number of ds in the country so they brought all these amazing people into work on the space program. And what that meant or me as a kid growing up we lived close enough to where they tested the saturn five rockets that sometimes the windows would rattle in the house when they were testing the rockets so that was kind of exciting and it was a big deal and basically what it meant. Was that the space program in particular. The scientists were like our hometown sports team. All the kids are very much into it and so forth and therefore made it natural for me to be into computers and technology later on said anton full. What did your parents spend their time doing. If you could paint a picture so my dad's a was a grocery store manager. For many years manage local urfi source and my mother was a schoolteacher. And in fact. I attended the school that my mother and my grandmother set up which was a very unusual. One schoolhouse so up. Like abraham lincoln kids in my class so therefore because it was so small there were kids mike class but there were four grades together at times we had. I threw forthright and then fifth through eighth grade into rooms but what that meant was it was a very flexible and unstructured. Kind of education wasn't everybody lineup. rose in the same kind of way i have compared it to montessori but it was not technically speaking montessori school in that unfortunately reported wrong so on a lot of montessori websites. They list is one of the graduates of montessori. But that's not technically true. What was cool about it is that we were allowed to go ahead if we wanted to. So we will have our math workbooks and then we would just if we could crash through our math work both in the first four months of school than we were allowed to go and do other things with our time and so i spent a lotta time reading. It's been all time reading encyclopedia's because i really enjoy the encyclopedia and so it was a i. Think a very conducive kind of education to being an entrepreneur slash also probably ruined me from having any kind of a normal job used to getting up and saying what's interesting to do that in office through the interesting thing that i can find to do house that informed how you think about education for your own kids and how have you thought about that. I don't have kids. But i suppose on the cusp feeling. The biological imperative to reason myself into having kids my oldest daughter who's now in college she said. University of miami t. Was home schooled. Her whole sort of time going on but that was really quite particular to her. It wasn't really an ideological thing or you know. I never really in advance thought of that. But it just suited her remember. We took her to tour a local school being about what school. She should go to an like she was getting ready to go into What did you think of that school. And she said oh. That lady was really funny. She says teach me how to read. And she's on her third harry potter book at the time. So yeah and then you know. We went to another school a year later and say well. What did you think offering. So she didn't make sense vertigos later on. She did go to kind of a gifted program one day a week and that sort of thing but it just suited her to better off just kind of studying what she wanted when she wanted to. And then my my two younger kids here in london. They have much more straightforward. You know that go to the local school down the street where we live in london. So it's much more of a traditional normal education. How did you. And i think it will be of great interest to and incredible number of parents particularly after corinthian and co vid. How did you think about or decide on how to approach homeschooling. In terms of teaching yourself vetting teachers and so on we went to various pump. School groups i mean it was kind of weird actually because a lot of the homeschooling community is extremely religious which i am not and so that whole world was a bit not to my taste. But there's a lot of great resources out there. But really i mean the truth is her mother. Did it far more than i did. And that's just because of my work causing trouble and so on and so forth. I would say there was a similarity to my childhood. Was this idea of like actually what really works. Well if a kid is interested in motivated is just followed. Whatever you're interested in She got interested in england. She would read five books about england's and that was just incredibly powerful in terms of mindset to just be free to pursue whatever you're interested in. I'm not suggesting it's right for every family right for every kid. That's very much a personal thing. But in general there's a lot of ways to end up at eighteen with a quality education and one of them is to go through a traditional school process. Another one is to not traditional process Pursuant in different ways you mentioned that you're not particularly religious. You also mentioned that you've been incorrectly. Cited as graduate of montessori want to check. I've i've read. I don't know if you self-described as a non believer or atheist do self-described that way or would you put it differently. I do what is interesting. Is i at one point in my which which i try not to a too much attention to because recommend not for everybody it can drive you a bit crazy. Because it's your i mean. It's really is a hilarious sort of thing. It's like more than anything else. It's your obituary but it's written while you're alive. I mean there will be an eventually published somewhere. But it's not going to be as important as your Eating entry so that means that you can probably pull heavily from your wikipedia. Page you and you can feel pretty strongly about it but at one point in time. They had put me into a category of american atheists and i said technically speaking that is true but putting me into that category is a very odd thing to do in the sense that that is not what essentially defines me there. Are people like historically madeline. Marie o'hare who was a massive atheist activist and yes. She's clearly an american atheists like that. That is exactly a good description of who she was but for me. It's just like i don't know it's a weird category to put me on. Put me in the category of people who ice cream you know. It's like okay. Yes true oliver not really sure that. It's encyclopedic fact. So it's not. The defining characteristic would put on your business card. If that if that were standing thing did you come to. Atheism of your own accord. Was that something absorbed through the household. How did you come to that point. My parents are religious. But not i mean. Even though we're from the deep south. I wouldn't say they are incredibly involved in it but they take the box and we went to a methodist church which is quite mild church compared to some of the very intense searches. You can get in the deep south. You know. I i would say there were a couple of fun stories at are relevant here so one fun story is when i was four on. I remember very vividly. So i would have been a born in august so it's getting close to christmas four plus some and i didn't the whole santa claus thing was i don't know i found that quite perplexing not enough tickly believable and i came up with a very brilliant experiment that ultimately had a deep flaw in which was when i went to the shopping mall with my parents and i went and i sat on simpson's lap. My mom was too far away to hear everything. so fantastic. what it wanted for christmas. I told him about this. A matt and then i mentioned in particular at wanted a gi joe ranger van so this is actually a time period. I was born in sixty six. So at this time period i would say. Gi joe had become a little bit less military and he was more of a park ranger because everybody is not happy about the military due to the at phnom and all that. And i wanted this park ranger man gi joe for my gi. Joe play with. And i didn't tell mom and dad. I told them about a few other things. So christmas morning came and i got everything i asked for that. I told my parents about. But i did not get the gi joe app so this proved to me that this whole thing was a hoax but then i realized literally christmas morning. The flaw in my plan. Which was this was the gift i've wanted the most. Why didn't they ask for something stupid. I didn't even want to test that theory. So then i'm like myself off. I didn't get a gi joe van. So there's that story which was really. I mean the the relevance your question is yes it was me having a doubting mine and testing. You know wanted to experiment on it to find out the evidence for something and then later on you know as the is. I grew older. I i really. I came to a position because there is a struggle with you know. Am i going to go to hell. The stories that people tell kids about religion quite terrifying. And i finally thought you know what if there is a good and kind and loving god. He wants me to be honest. And i can't honestly say a believe this. So if i go to my like i don't believe it and then i die. I think god will go. You know what you came by honestly so come on it. You know it's fine. I'm not asking for stupid. Blind obedience because what meaning is there to that so that kind of helped me get my comfort within the later i studied philosophy in the various arguments for and against and so on so forth. But i think for me that emotional point where i could say. Okay look. it's kind of the opposite of pastels. Wager out it's kind of. I'm going to be fine. What did you think you were possibly going to be. Or what did you aspire to do when you grew up when you were in say high school high school was when i actually. I got interested in the stock market about interested in finals in a way kind of accidentally and actually we could go back and look at the time lines if you go back in and see when did winnebago's stock go from three to eighteen. Must say some kind of numbers like that. Within a year's time basically what happened was ahead. This sort of moment of insight that gas prices had been incredibly high. There was this whole inflationary crisis and the recession and everything. And obviously winnebago sales were quite down because who can afford to buy a big thing to drive around in a recession and then also ask prices were high and then gas prices came tumbling down and i said you know what i think. Winnebago's can have a great year. So i just started watching. Their stock price went from three until eighteen. Almost like oh. This is easy by anybody can make a one good idea which also reminds me. People say if you could go back in and tell yourself something when you were twenty. What would you say. I would say by apple stock literally. Don't buy or just buy apple star. Thank later. I got interested in finance in the markets and decided that when i went to college i would study finance. So that's kind of why. I thought it would do would appeal to you about finance and markets. You have this childhood following your interests whether that be your daughter's case hypothetically penguins or film yank what what what was it that grabbed you or compelled you about finance and markets in part. It's just this idea that it's a very intellectual activity figuring out the valuation of something. I feel. I don't know excited by things that demand of you rationality really being objective like you are trading or gambling on the basis of some emotional feeling with no facts behind it then on average. You're not going to do very well. You have to kind of be ruthless with yourself of like am. I investing in tesla because i think elon musk's cool. Am i actually overpay for something. That's extraordinarily highly valued at the moment. And so i think that appealed to me and then as i got further into it just the mathematics of it. I like math and enjoy thinking about things like arbitrage where you find so something that's different but similar you can actually figure out what the relative valuation between the two should be and it's the harder that is to figure out that the more likely it's to be mis-priced. That's the sort of thing that i enjoyed about it were there. Are there any particular investors who stood out or stand out to who captured your imagination. Perhaps i would say certainly at this point in my life in particular i would say the long term value. Investing type of approach is something. I see a lot of wisdom in so warren buffet type of investing. Where you definitely aren't trying to time. The market from day to day aren't doing the kind of arbitrage that brought me into thinking about it and so forth. It's not about that. It's about really thinking about long term trends and patients and putting your money aside in a way that i the reason i think such abilities is something i never did so i can joke about you. Know by apple stock near young. But in fact i been entre normal life so basically. I've never really built up a normal retirement or fully. When things like that. I just put everything into the projects. I'm working on. Which is good and bad but i mean i think that that kind of idea of and i think this is something that young people have a hard time with which is a weird kind of shame. Because it's the time when it matters which is compound interest really does matter if you can earn x percent a year. It's kind of boring when you're young. But when you're old you look back in your. Oh actually that's why pile of money invested the value investing to buy and hold as you mentioned the warren buffett. You get ten hole punches for the rest of your life. How will you think about your decisions is also fascinating thought exercise. Even if you don't fully ascribe to it because there is a measure twice cut once Emphasis on rational decision. Making and people would argue. Well that's great and it worked before two thousand fourteen really well before fang and so on and so forth contributed so much to this five hundred. Whatever might be a counter argument but when you read these annual letters of howard marks or investors who would often be put into that class talk quite a lot about cognitive biases and different types of malfunctions of reasoning. That is perhaps not emphasized other places when and how did objectivism entered into the picture. So i like many people when i was. I don't know maybe twenty got interested in. I was interested in philosophy. And i was interested economics and not interested in very excited by iran than particular. Fountainhead being a rural mind-blowing eye-opening for me. And so really as i do tend to pursue whatever interests me. I would say very very deep into the whole world and i say at a point in time i would consider myself a real expert in a lot of the real details of that body of thought and body of knowledge and in many ways still today has an impact on how i think about things and what's problematic about it. Is that the general understanding of her work that most people have is so superficial it's a cartoon caricature of what her ideas actually were. Could you describe for folks for folks who have no familiarity what is the caricature and then sure. Yeah i think the things she's most known for is her advocacy of free market capitalism in her advocacy of self interest. Rational cell trust and those are both true by the way but they're also nuance since subtle and complicated in some really interesting in different ways and for me i think what i would say impacted me more and you can still see to me. Today is the idea that ideas matter and that a really important and incredibly valuable thing to do in life as part of being a successful flourishing human being is to think and to chew on ideas and so a lot of people have a very knee jerk approach to what they think she was about. And even the knee-jerk approach is something that i find irritating with you whether you're four against them ideas. It's really more like okay. Let's actually slowdown. Let's think about what we know. How do we know it. How can we find out what's true. What does it mean to gather evidence. What does it mean to reason based on evidence And all of those things to me are incredibly valuable. Avid almost say in and of themselves. But they're they're not just themselves there towards the end of being human being and dispose. It's one could also argue that even if aspects of it and i'm just playing devil's advocate here but if aspects of it could be rightly considered cartoonish exaggerated. It doesn't mean that there aren't components that are incredibly still incredibly practical invaluable for sure and and you know it's like if what you draw her sort of sense of life and philosophy and ideas is the idea. I have a fundamental moral responsibility to think really hard about what's right and what's wrong. That's good. that's a really good thing can glued is. Yeah you know what. She's actually wrong about this aspect of economics where she's actually wrong about that aspect of interpersonal morality. That's okay because what you got from. That was that you're thinking person and for me. I always say this. And is really what i think is the best. Bits of of wikipedia is if i bumped into some on and we disagree about some ideas and i find myself having to grapple with and think through their perspective and understand it whether i come out the other end agreeing with them or not. That's an incredibly valuable thing. And i i will love that person. Who has sort of grappled with me and in an equal intellectual way that's hugely fascinating and and for me. This is one of the sad things about twitter. For example is that there's just the design of the space is so bad or that the designed. This face is really all about the one line quick. That destroys someone with a humor whether or not you even bothered engaging with what they had to say for me. It's just so much more valuable to to really kind of understand someone. Even if i end up disagreeing with them you've mentioned design of the space with reference to twitter. When were you first exposed to design of any space online in a meaningful way. Well i mean in a sense of asli minute. Everyone gets on online in whatever space you're in you're subjected to the design elements of that space even though you may not have fought through it but i mean i remember getting on very early on to usenet groups so for those who aren't ancient like me and may not remember know about us not using that was an enormous sprawling on a message board system but unlike say read it which is probably the some ways the successor it was not only on an uncensored it was also unsearchable because it was a peer to peer system shared across many many networks may sleep protocol for exchanging data where this sprang up and the all that was loosely in charge of it did begin to build ways of cancelling posts by sending commands to cancel things that the other service could our respect or not respecting support to try and bring it under control. Because what happened in. That design was a lot of really really really bad behavior. A lot of abuse a lot of flame wars so people started creating moderated groups which had a lot of problems. So i i was very interested in that space and as i was using us not as a reader just like anybody would use. Read it or something today. I got very interested in because i was studying economics and game theory very interested in thinking through. Okay what are the incentive structures so everyone who's participating here. They're facing because of the design of the software because it a social design of the space they face various incentives and the incentives. You know might be there. Were of course spammers so people that just comment just spam news with useless advertising and things like that so okay. That's that's one incentive structure people have and you know one of the things and this is something i would say. Today is true of twitter which is because of the way twitter works. Let's say you see somebody doing something terrible on twitter so abusing another person using you whatever. It might be spamming. Well what are your choices. What are the three things you can do. And they are this that you could block that other person which helps you but doesn't help anybody else. You can report it because they're they're reporting on abuse system doesn't scale very well because it's very just top down and there's a very sad job involved. People have to look at the worst things in humanity and make judgment calls very low cost so therefore they're overworked underpaid and they're doing a great service at great personal expense. I believe or you can yell at him as your choices to yellow person which you've been on twitter is a very popular you know. Just yell yell at them. They're yelling at you. You just yell back and there you go and so sent us was like that you would go into a little friendly. Little on moderated newsgroup on some subject. You're interested in and could go very well for a little while and then got bigger and bigger. Eventually you would see. This is now dominated by the most annoying person here and the second most annoying person here in all they're doing is yelling at each other. You know and it's kind of like good people are like yeah. You know what i'm outta here like. This isn't the interesting place to chew on. Ideas is just people screaming each other and so that kind of thing made me start to think a lot about okay. What are the principles of designing software but also designing social rules and norms. That can help contribute to building something. That's healthy that's meaningful people. As opposed to just creating yet another assessment on the internet creating another neighborhood that features people throwing potted plants at your head as you walked straight. Yeah just a quick thanks to one of our sponsors and we'll be right back to the show this episode is brought to you by athletic greens. I get asked all the time. What i would take if i could only take one supplement the answer is invariably athletic greens. I've you it as all in one. Nutritional insurance i recommended it in fact in the four hour body. This is more than ten years ago. And i did not get paid to do so with approximately seventy five vitamins minerals and whole food sourced ingredients. You be very hard pressed to find a more nutrient dense and comprehensive formula on the market. It has multivitamins multi-mineral greens complex probiotics and prebiotics gut health and immunity formula digestive enzymes adapted jin's and much more. I usually take it once or twice a day just to make sure i've covered my bases if i miss anything. I'm not aware of. 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Soon we're going to segue to the onset of entrepreneurship to speak before we get there. Because you mentioned the fountainhead. And i may lose track of this question. I wanna ask. Are there any books in particular that you have gifted often or more often than others to other people deserve shortlist of any type or any that come to mind not really gifted but but in the sense of if did or recommended less just recommended i would say to. They're both quite simple in a way as recommendations and quite common but one one would be seven habits of effective people. Which is a classic steven covy on of motivation. Self help kind of thing. I wouldn't say that. I have applied all of it or buy into all of it but i did find at a certain point in my life. Being a person who's prone to following whatever interest at the moment is like okay. Hold myself together. And here's assistant for like getting things on. I tried looking into getting things. Damages temporary on a popular thing and quite interesting in good. I'm getting buy into it. Nfl like needed to really buy into it. That were so seven habits and then the other one is a book called your money or your life which is basically sets force. The argument that you don't need as much money as you think to live and in fact a lot of how we live which is very expensive traps into things that we would rather not be trapped into. So you know you've got a canoe. Youth are wear certain clothes. You've gotta do this. That and the other certainly something that i feel like you would also resonate with with four hour workweek which by the way also had a huge impact on my favorite story about matters. I read four hour workweek. And then i not that long after that i was like okay. Aren't this. I'm moving to argentina for months and i did and i gotta von age phone with a number. That rang as if i were in new york. I got into my apartment in. Sra's and nobody knew i was there. They all thought i was in the mode way. I realized the floor plan that month. When i was supposed to be there i needed to do a speech to be fair on me. These speeches came up after. I had already booked the apartment in atlanta. Go i go and give a speech in korea and a speech in milan. I gotta tell you to get from buenos aires. So that's just like it's there's no path there it's like you've got to fly around the world twice to get to the place so it was a hopeless month. I'm like okay. Well i still love the idea. But anyway i don't want to embarrass you by recommending. You book on your show. But i assume everybody who's listening will have read that but you know it's like really interesting because what i like about your money or your life and what i liked about. Your book is kind of that like okay. hold on. you're doing this whole thing. You've got this whole rat race thing going on your following all the normal things on need to step back and go. Hey is there a radical different way of looking at this to say. Is there a way. I can make my life like super much better and still do the things that i wanna do but without all the things that are blocking me from doing it because i have to make the money to make the money to do things that at cycle get into. I'll thank you for. Thank you for sharing and thank you for the kind words. I love the argentina story. There's always there's almost always a wrinkle in the master plan. I'm in sharing my. But it's not foreseeing the amazing ping pong like travel plan. I will now have ahead of me. How did you go from or maybe. This was the intentional long. I don't know but how did you go from finance and markets to founding companies. Exactly i was working as a futures options trader in chicago worked for a small firm of local traders. Local traders are traders who were on the floor. I wasn't working at a big bank lear. We own our seats on the floor. And we traded with the firms. Money and i was doing arbitrage between the chicago mercantile exchange in chicago or trade refunds and orphee You've got all that is and as a result. I actually had the markets open quite early. They are seven twenty and finish it to be out of the office by three and i was just super interested in technology super interested in the internet. I had been using internet when i was in france. Fool a lot. And i could see this thing brewing. That was really something very interesting. And i was interested. I one of the things i was doing because i was gay also just moved. Chicago did not. but it didn't really have a life. So i would get off work and go home and do programming and i was writing a web browser so just from scratch share using various components that could find online open source staf writing my own web browser and when i was in the middle of doing that and it was barely functional to be fair. That was when netscape went. Public and netscape on the first day of trading was worth something like four point three billion dollars and i saw that number four point three billion and i was like you know what netscape one point. No is better than my web browser. I'm writing at home but it's not four point three billion dollars now kind of not that brilliant piece of software and it wasn't you know it was like really early days and so i was like this is really interesting. I've been excited about the internet for a few years. But this is for the first time the market validating this is gonna be a big thing. This is quite interesting. How to a friend. Tim shell and he and i started tinkering around on the internet and we did a bunch of different stuff. We started a web directory. Search engine of honest which has hastily about building web directories so you could go in and will web rings. we call it c- he go in and create a list of websites on any topic and just late them all together to each other so that other people could come and what was interesting about that is we. And and the the foreshadowing for the future is. We decided that we would just let people come in and build these web rings so you can sign up for an account and create a list of anything you wanted and the idea was really early. Knows like yahoo links. Who used to have. I mean maybe they still have that. They had a web directory rather read. Google saw search engine and they would categorize things and they hired staff to do it and so there was a big giant list of links. With how tores and subcategories. And we're like. Oh maybe anybody can help us. Bill that why. Why would you need heart staff to do that. So that's kind of the early user generated content concept and then we tried a lot of different things over a year's time we had a site early blogging slash dot was a big tech news site that was massively popular at the time. And they open source code slash code so we grabbed that and started opening a bunch of different blogs trying to leverage the traffic built and it went well for while so so it was growing and it was doing well and it was the dot com boom and then we got approached by. This is actually a really funny. Emigrate sort got approached by. Nbc tv network nbc nbc. I would embassy interactive eggs. At that time i mean it sounds like a joke today. Sounded kind of like a joke back then but they were very dead serious. They thought. Okay the big tv networks should move into. Why should these upstarts like yahu google. We're going to create a web portal and a search engine and we're gonna have all these different web. Properties is going to be just like tv network so they started building things and so they pay us a lot of money on our full inventory for far more than we have been able to sell it forever and exchange we moved the whole site to arm stock indices dot com so we became a sub demented. There's so that they could count our traffic for their media. Metrix numbers and we were about temperature there traffic which was kind of interesting because they didn't pay us nearly ten percent of what they were blowing on everything and so therefore a short period of time. That was really are dot com boomer like it was amazing. We were making good money. And then lo and behold they realized somebody higher up realized they were spending about one hundred million quarter one hundred million a core and they were like you know what we better stop doing this like. This is definitely not working. This is a really bad idea so then we had a bit of a contract dispute at the end because they were just like fuck you are not paying any more like fuck you got a contract and you know whatever a tiny company versus a giant company yet. You just take what they give you. There's no way of fighting it really so so then we went back so then we were sort of there and then that was actually a really Can't tell you whether i would have to really go back and study. Was that before. After the founding of new -pedia which was the first encyclopedia Who's probably around the same time. Because i think that that wealth made us feel like hey we can launch some new things. Let's take this money that's coming in and let's see what else we can create and that was when we started thinking about the encyclopedia project. I was a couple of questions related to these stories you shared the first is at. What point did you leave your finance job. Yeah what experiments were with the safety net of this around a appointment. And when did you make the jump out some a my boss as i say it was a small firm we had. I think there were probably twenty saf total and my boss was a traitor himself and he sort of knew that i was going home at night and working stuff on the weekend that tim and i were sort of thinking about website ideas. I mean really actually kind of glossed over. We had a couple of. I would say brilliant ideas that we we weren't able to pull off so one was auto trader dot com. So basically i was like people could post ads for the cars. They wanna sell and get in touch and so we went to car dealers that they weren't interested so i had this idea for ordering food online. Which of course now is a huge business at the time again. Restaurant honors looked at me. Like i was from mars. I would go in and go. I wanna put your restaurant online and like we've got a fax machine. I don't what you're talking about. But we were doing this. And that and then the the web ring concept started to take off and we show you like traffic is increasing increasing and mike was a traitor autzen at seen markets. Go wild and i was like. Hey you know i think i can build something here. And he became an angel investor he invested some money. Not a huge amount. But enough that i was able to kind of carry on paying myself a little bit of a salary and tim salary we a couple more programmers and so on also moved to san diego. 'cause i was set up with the chicago weather. We started that way and in terms of that feeling of that moment windu jumped ship. It felt okay because it was quite clear that mike monico well. He liked my work as a trader thought. This sounded cool and interesting too. I did feel like okay. If this whole thing doesn't work. I can just go back to chicago and start training again like it wasn't it didn't feel like cutting ship and i'm never going to get to come back to my whole career. Which not everybody has that. There are certain careers. Some of the worst are places that i consider to be virtually colts when people join them but like the big consulting and accounting firms where they've been a really rigid kind of upper out culture. Where if you think you're about to make partner in two years time which is a fat salary. It'd be kinda crazy to quit even though you you're unhappy because you know you might get fired anyway or you might make partners so you know. It's like a weird sick on what i want. I wasn't in that kind of situation. It was like a very entrepreneurial company. I was working for so therefore it felt like okay. Look this is a side thing. I wanna do to just like another trade. It's like affect. Who put some money on this and see how it works out just like you know. It's like you're jimmy. Use the money to trade with seattle. Works out right if it doesn't work out. There are other options. There are follow up opportunities. And i talked about this. None of this was in silicon valley. But i talked about this particularly in places you know. Travel all over the world. While i used to this year just in my But i think one of the great things about silicon valley is precisely this concept which people get in a very deep way which is if you try startup and it doesn't work out that's not the end of your career. You're not forever failure at all. Then you get a job at google. And if you're interviewing for jobs in silicon valley having been at a startup that didn't work out isn't a black mark in fact can be quite interesting if people can look at and go. That's interesting. You were working on food delivery two years before it came up big thing. That's actually not a good example. That's no big thing for a long time law but you know it's like a. Wow that's interesting because you were too early or you missed it because of this that and the other. But actually that was a great idea. And you're talented so bright. Not not a problem. And i think a lot of societies around. The world have talked to japanese entrepreneurs korean entrepreneurs and they really struggle with this that this idea that if i go work at a startup and it fails my whole career is doomed. Like i've missed the boat. I should've gone toward trumpet company. And i think that's unfortunate because it fails to generate the culture that can generate innovation. It highlights a number of things for me is. we're talking and resum listening the number one. The cultural consequences both internationally. Even domestically are different depending on location the financial consequences and the optionality that you have or don't have are also affected by your choices in this case of say employment right what type of show game are you signing up for. What are the incentives. Like your boss. Viewed it as another trade. He's like sure. I'll stake this guy like you're at a blackjack table and you have possibly system for beating the. Let's let let's try it. I have to make sure that he has enough money that he can survive like a short string of bad luck. But let's see what happens verses as you put it maybe in a big five accounting firm or somewhere else where it's out and the game is kind of zero sum and then you to completely switch lanes and i wanna come back to actually one question that if i don't ask is going to bother me. How did the television network find the web bring. Was it dominant enough that it was on everyone's radar or was there something else that that happened because that seemed to provide the fuel for some what happened later. How did that actually come together. I would say we were. We were by no means dominant. We only ever had a little bit of press coverage wasn't wasn't like a famous thing we were on certain. Listen to back then. There were a few sort like today. You can look on alexa. The alexa ranking of something very accurate. Necessarily but it's it's the thing that's out there and so i think you could look up and say oh. This has a lot of traffic or a fair amount of traffic. But i actually think i literally have no idea i mean. I got a call out of the blue. And they're like well we don't want to buy you but we'd be interested in this type of ownership. I think they did that type of deal with a lot of different sites. I think they were just looking to build out in a in a way if you think about a tv network that's kind of their mindset is his like paying for a production company to create a show so we're going to go out and we're gonna find a production company and a writer and we're going to back them to build this thing and they're not necessarily actually making the tv shows. They're working with other companies to do it. I think that was kind of their view is like let's put some money in. Let's answer let's let's bring onto our network fifty of these things to generate a bigger property. But i literally have not how they found me. That's a good question don out. Imagine their some behind the scenes although predictable conversation they're part which is some type of arbitrage right. they're saying. Hey look we can pay these guys acts. We can charge two x for the cps advertising even though they ended up losing a hundred million quarter which is an idea but it makes sense they would just try to roll up a bunch of this traffic and then sell it for a multiple of some type. Yeah no i think it was slightly different from that is that is a perfectly valid strategy today not uncommon that a successful smaller website gets bought by bigger company for the simple reason that the bigger company has traction and the ad sales market and can get more. So it's a win win. They can pay you more for your small website than you would make on your own and they can arbitration make money on it but in this case i i believe because it was the dot-com frenzy. I think it was really more. If we can get big enough that we can go to the market and say were as big as google. that's where this mile billions. We can spend it out for those billions that's causing whether they can actually make money are not as a real business because this was in the khameini which by the way is mostly left us. I would say there's a lot of stuff going on now where people are more interested in. Can we below up big enough to sell to the market before it kind of becomes obvious that this is an actually a great business. The new new economy as it was back. Now you mentioned a few different kind of shots that you took you mentioned food. You mentioned this auto trader like concept you were trying different things presumably to see what would stick what might gain some traction. But you don't have infinite time right. You have this final inning resource of time so you can't try everything. How did you choose these particular shot. So really seat of the pants got you know i would say certainly not through a long process like you might engage in if you are a big five accounting firm or a consulting coming into advise where you would create lists of twenty-five opportunities in through the pros and cons of each one. You didn't write a hundred page white paper for yourself. Exactly and if i let later on when when i was realized that it would be a good time to start thinking about raising venture capital like one of the things that was really impossible for me is to sort of write a business plan in the traditional sort of mba school. Kind of way. Because i'm like. I just most the numbers. You're going to write down complete fiction. Three year revenue estimate. I'm like oh well a lottery. The numbers you pick the numbers. I don't really. That's not possible and so it was actually good good. Vc's no that and don't waste your time with a lot of nonsense. So that's how that were. I would say it would have to do with. Did i find it personally interesting. Did i think we could leverage where we were to get somewhere so just as one example we knew because of the web brings he more coming in a building and we knew what was most popular on our side which was basically female actresses in porn stars that was massively popular in our search. That was so much traffic. And so we're like okay. That's weird whatever. People who are into pamela anderson who was huge like she was number one thing for a long time. What are people. Who are in the panel anderson also into and we're like while they're into tv. They're into sports. Basically men so let's figure all that's we started a baseball blog and just stuff like that didn't really work by. That was kind of the thinking on some of the projects to go like. We've got this big audience. What else could we do with them. And what might be a good thing to do other ones like the food one and the used car when those were all before any success with random ideas. Let's build a website. What would it be. And then you start looking at these at jason opportunities once you had identified the type of people who are providing traction. Yeah exactly although to be clear though. The new pedia project was not something. I thought that was adjacent traffic to. It was kind of like actually this idea of a free encyclopedia for everyone. That's just awesome meaningful so that was really much more. There was no clear business idea. No business plan no nothing it was just. I think i know how to build this. I'm just gonna build it and we'll figure the rest out later which is also kind of dot com era thing. Don't really know a business model. But i just know this sounds like a cool thing. And if it's a cool thing will find a way to fund it. Eventually the field of dreams approach they build it. They will come and in this case just so. I understand the transition. You have this web ring you with this network. You begin to amass enough capital that you have fuel for whatever purpose you may decide and then this deal falls through big company. A huge company versus small company contract dispute forget about it just bloodletting exercise. Did you have to make the decision to abandon the audience and what you had built to then jump into new pedia with no real plan for business or revenue or was it an easier decision than i'm making it out to be it was i mean i would say the immediate thing to happen in a in a great lesson for entrepreneurs immediately after we lost the big sweet deal. We basically started looking for another deal looking for partners and we basically carried on and over the course of a year we. We basically spent all the money that we made during the term of the deal. And what i should have done is recognized that we were in dot com crash long. Before i could it to myself and that there was going to be no more sweetheart deal like that like that. That was just ridiculous. And they were overpaying and lee. Weren't gonna find any way of making that much money. And i could've cut the staff sooner what we did though we were. I think i would say we were about eighteen to twenty people when the do blew up. Obviously we didn't hire anybody and then people move on in any kind of company so you know a couple of people left for their own reasons. Somebody moved away so we didn't replace them so we slowly starting cut expenses but being young and feeling responsible for people work for man all that i found it very hard to just lay people off. That's just not my strong point of being like kind of brutal with people and stuff and they're doing good work. We're gonna find a way to find a revenue stream and so on and then a black friday came when it was just like. Yeah this is it like. I can't carry on like this. We're literally not gonna make payroll for another month if we don't dramatically cut and so we did. We went down from. I think on that day we went from sixteen people to four that was a pretty brutal time but sixty people down to four. It was okay because we could pay ourselves. That actually matched our revenue to our expenses. And so as a part of all that it was possible to carry on and to sort of carry on at a lesser level. And in fact we did then. I moved from california to florida is cheaper looked in saving money every way because we didn't have an office we started all remote because why waste money on an office if you're barely paying your salaries and it was around that time that wikipedia than had been started and basically just started to boom it was just growing and growing. We are having fun working on it. And we're like wow. This is now the that anything we ever made before. And that's kind of cool and exciting but again it was. It was not a moment of. We have to give up this one thing and take this huge step to do this other thing. It was more like okay. This thing we don't see any way to make a lot of money out of it. It's not really working. Although it's popular it's not really the right thing. This other thing which our side project is actually doing well. So let's actually go that way for a while and see how that goes. Meanwhile the other thing just kind of sat there making money not a huge amount of course. But it's like this is enough to pay ourselves to work on this other thing. I'd certainly want to dive into new pedia. And then what evolved from there. But before i do. I have to ask since you mentioned. I should have cut headcount earlier to stem the bleeding. When i begin to fantasize about that what if there's part of me that thinks while sometimes you need life to save you from what you want because if you had tenderly done that triage yeah who knows. Maybe you'd still be working at that company for all we know for sure. I mean one of the so as we get from new pedia into wikipedia. Really one of the things. So i always say wikipedia is child of the dot com crash really not even started before the crash was was kind of going or what i mean by. That is when wikipedia really started to grow. There was no possibility of getting any investment money. There was no possibility of raising money to do it. It wasn't big enough that if we put ads on it it wouldn't have made a material difference wasn't gonna change everything to be able to put a few ads on get couple grand a month or whatever it might have been and what that meant was interestingly okay. Imagine he started community website. Let's let you to and it starts to grow boom and you're really excited and you see some problems on the site anything. Okay what are we going to do at least from. What do you think i is. Okay let's hire moderators. Like less hire people to content moderation and behavior moderation and had. We had funding to do it. We might have evolved into the same type of model that we see at twitter youtube facebook like everywhere basically which is the users use the site and the monterey should other than just personal person blocking really done in a very opaque way by the company itself and the difference with wikipedia. What makes it so fundamentally different from everything else on the internet. 'cause i had zero money a hire moderators. We were actually forced to invent ways to deal with things in the community so we started to think about. Okay what would it mean to have. Moderators like admins from the community volunteer advocate. So it's like okay. Well there needs to be checks and balances so they're elected by the community. They certain rules. They could lose their admin ship if they do the wrong things and then you can go on. Pd and there's this day there's hundreds and hundreds of discussions and debates about all of these kinds of things but the key is it's all in the hands of that community and we had to devise things like the arbitration committee just like the highest supreme court. And there's a million little things Media whereas if we'd had money probably wouldn't have done it. That way probably would've never occurred to me to do that was really necessities. The mother of invention thing. I remember reading a quote which absolutely going to butcher. But it was from jack ma the founder or co founder of alibaba and along the lines of when we started we had several huge advantages. We had no money no plan and no experience and it's just incredible. We see and i look back. Also at my own investing career i want to dignify it with such a term and almost all of the best investments were in the what was described at the time is dot com depression in two thousand eight. Early two thousand nine after the subprime mortgage crisis. Because i think in part there's a survivorship bias of course i mean you have kind of the diehards who remain but there was incredible resourcefulness by necessity throughout the entire period. And i don't want to skip over new pedia because there are reasons. I suspect people know. Widely of wikipedia is not so much new pedia so didn't work net new pedia and wendy. No this is really not gonna work so new. Pedia was the same vision free encyclopedia freely. Licensed i didn't know anything about building. Communities related know anything about wiki software which was around at the time. But i didn't know about it really. And it had a seven stage review process to get anything published so the idea was which seemed correct given what we knew at the time was actually incorrect. Although it does foreshadow something that if you're going to be an encyclopedia written by volunteers on the internet that people are gonna make fun of you. Unless you're more academic than a traditional encyclopedia you gotta be really really super serious otherwise it sounds ridiculous and so that actually was quasi incorrect and so on and so forth but what it meant was built a system. That was not any fun. It was very intimidating. And you know to answer your question of winded. I know well basically we were. I don't know maybe a year in and appoint came when i was frustrated. Because i'm like it's really slow progress. Nothing's getting through the system. We've hardly published anything. What is wrong. Why can't we produce content on. I thought well. I'm going to write an article myself. And i decided to write about robert merton who won the nobel prize in economics for his work in auction pricing theory. When i was in grad school had published a paper option pricing theory on at work in the markets in chicago. So i knew that area by well. I thought i'll just write a short biography of martin. Read all of his academic papers and work through the math of all of his working. You know and so. I sat down to write and i had a massive immediate writers walk because i knew they were going to take my biography and they were willing to send it to the most prestigious finance professors they could foreign to critique review it and it was like no fun like that's scary and i was like i'm going to write this thing. I'm going to get it back. It's going to be full of how stupid i am. Because i haven't been in academia for four years. I left that world and i realized then i'm like this is never gonna work. This isn't fun. This is too hard and so that was when we effectively to a wicky model where it's just like. Okay here's blindscreen thompson stuff and let's start writing an encyclopedia and in fact the reason it was called wikipedia rather just pivoting new pedia that we thought that are very very serious. New -pedia community would be radically against this that they would be very academic and like. That's crazy do it that way. So we're like okay. Let's just try it as a side project and it took off took very very quickly. I mean we've got more work done in two weeks then. We added two years nearly two years and that was very exciting actually Just one little side note. That's really interesting. When we were pursuing the new pedia model one of the earliest pieces that we published to great fanfare with our small community. Were like great. It's the seventh stage and here it is done and it took a couple of days only before somebody emailed said. This is actually plagiarized. Here's where am we're like. Oh really and we looked into it. Oh so the whole academic review process with professors. Looking at number they didn't catch plagiarism. Nearly as fast as showing it to two hundred people them just like googling and checking it and so that was like a really interesting inside the go actually open peer review sort of the open review much like open source software is actually quite powerful and may actually catch things that a small group review. Even experts won't catch. And so that was quite informative. Really ad love to ask you how you came across waikiki software. And in the course of doing homework for this conversation yet. I came across and again. I can't believe everything you read. But a description. Of how. Tim burners lee at believes not too far from you across the pond Who is best known. As is the inventor of the world wide web was distraught when mosaic came out because it was effectively. Read only talking about netscape earlier and he really wanted people to be able to modify. What pages very liberally paraphrasing minor. Predation there but then this software provides that capability. However you or your team exposed to that. The i i was exposed to it. So jeremy rosenfeld was one of my employees worked for me in a bit of this that writing. He came to me and showed me which was just before christmas and said hey you know. I've heard you talking about how we have to make it. Simpler for people participate. Have you seen wiki on my no once wiki. And he showed it to me and then not long after. I sort of posted on ward cunningham. Who's the inventor of the wiki on so basically wiki just means a website. Anyone can edit. And i asked what you think about using a wicky to make an encyclopedia and he responded quite famously. Something like yeah you could use wicky for writing the second pedia but it was still be a wiki which was quite funny so then my daughter was born the one who was later home school and she was very very sick when she was born and it was quite an emotional traumatic time. It's like wow and it's kind of one of those real throughout the conversation belgian. No that wasn't really like a break point moment. And there was no moments of just leaping and you know it was all transitional from next that was like a huge moment so when she got home from the hospital i was just like you know what life's too short we've been thinking about trying this wiki thing which is going to go for it. I'm just gonna install this wiki software. So i downloaded a an open source. Wiki package. that was very very basic setup. hello world and we're off to the races. That was really that moment when it was like. Okay let's let's just make this happen looking at a paragraph from an esquire article esquire uk. And i'm just gonna read two sentences one or two cents here wikipedia university unto itself. It's ambition unequal than its scale unprecedented. It's three hundred that number. I'm sure has changed over time. Staff and contractors are fond of a single phrase quote. Thank god or little. Enterprise works in practice because it could never work in theory and quote often to this day. I'm continually amazed that wikipedia works and the the article continues in theory. Peter should be a disaster etcetera etcetera. What were some of the decisions. Because of course wikipedia has evolved over time and a lot has been learnt added to the ecosystem over time. But what were some of the early decisions that ended up in your mind being deciding factors for that sort of minimally viable product that that made it catch right in those first few months just to be clear and you the way you said it is correct. Sometimes that quote is attributed to me. I've never said that he works in irie works in practice because it works in theory. But that's that's all coupled. I i would say key decisions. That made a huge huge difference. That we're really kind of open questions in the early days where things like neutrality. So the idea of there was a proposal early on that maybe instead of having one intrigue about. Let's say abortion controversial topic about abortion. Why don't we just have competing entries. So different people can write whatever they want and then they can vote on them or just a competing entries. And i was like what no actually i want there to be a neutral entry. Which kind of tries to take the Points of view these scribes them fairly doesn't take size but just explains the ideas and i think that was hugely important because the thing about neutrality is that all kinds of diverse people. As long as they're falling kind can get behind that they can go. Okay yeah like. I i get that. That's okay you would know it from watching tv debates or one on twitter but most people are pretty reasonable and will say look. I disagree with this but it should be presented in a fair way that the defenders of it would to identify so that was a key one ending. Another one was the idea. I mean this is weird now to think. This was a big decision but it really wasn't a time. So somebody started to upload into wikipedia. The full text of hamlet for example. And that was like. Okay what are we. What are we thinking about. And i was like you know what. Hamlet should be available for free online and a well-supported way. But it's not an encyclopedia article and so it doesn't belong in wikipedia so we created a separate Wicky source where people put all kinds of source texts. You know things like that. So a lot of those kinds of things. Attempt show who was business partner from the earliest days. When we first started there was no such thing as a separate talk page and he said if this is ever really going to be an encyclopedia we need to separate the discussions about the articles from the articles themselves. Celine is separate aged me proposed using slash. Talk would be the some page. Wow that was genius right. Nobody knew at the time and now it seems so obvious. You're like asa want but actually made a huge difference because it meant that you could say look whatever discussions and debates you have but over there talk about how to improve the article but article itself. You should always try to keep it in a readable format as an encyclopedia article whereas before that will do is if you object to something in the middle of winter you would just go in it. Put up errands mar or you indent a paragraph in comments on what was just written which made it very hard to read other than just as a interesting fool for weird week type of conversation listening to you list off these different decisions and maybe this is being really dramatic but it seems like any one of those taken in a different direction. Could've mortally wounded the entire enterprise overstated. But i mean it seems to be a set of very critical visions. Were there any significant mistakes. Made in the early days that either ended up needing to be fixed or that have just as as kind of like a vestigial tail have have remained in this system. Were there any mistakes that particularly come to mind as memorable in the beginning days which could be the first few months first few years whatever timeframe. I'll always have a hard time with this question. I i always explain what i mean by saying. I'm i'm a pathological optimist. So i always think everything's gonna be great. That's not correct. By the way everything is not always gonna be great. But that's the way. I feel at a person's someone i look back at the past. What i know is we did the best given our knowledge. Even let's say the first attempt with new pedia clearly didn't work and so you can imagine in a fantasy kind of way. Oh we have just started wikipedia. Two years earlier said of doing this whole new Were but then again. I'm like you know what we learned a lot. That detour was kind of a necessary. Art of the growth of people in the community of myself that. I don't know how we could've skipped that. Step it so it's kind of like saying yes. I could be the greatest player in the nba. Other than the fact that i'm five foot seven and not athletic at all but had on you know. I would've been completely different. Yeah about i'm not. I never was no had been genius enough to figure out that the new project wasn't gonna work two years earlier than break. But how can i regret. I wasn't that you can't play vesicles so you know it's kind of like not so for me. I think this is when i'm talking to people who are interested in watching nores or about their career things like that is to say. Look you have to sort of get your mind to a point where you really do believe because it's true that doing this thing that even if it doesn't work out you're better off for having done it because otherwise you can paralyze yourself. What if i fail. What if i felt. What if i fail. That doesn't mean you completely go narcissistic and fancy land. That nothing can ever failed mean. I really liked the fail faster. Lean startup kind of thinking said. Let's just tried little experiments and if they work great if they don't work that's okay. We learned something and we didn't sort of stake our entire self esteem on that one idea. I think that's really important. So when i look back. I would cite yes. Of course there are. Things are things about wikipedia. That i find weird today that you think sort of twenty years on we would have solved so if you go on the talk page of any article or you go to wikipedia. Find me. Go to user part. You comment me. When i go to respond to the comment. I have to type colon colon to identify comment or colon. And then once we've had a dialogue of like five layers That actually colin colon colon colon college. That's insane why threaded discussions like just automatically. You did hit plenty comments and it goes like in rhetoric and there are some good reasons for. It's complicated right but it's it's actually like that's a vestige of the past. That's there because it's always been there in actually works us. It's a weird barrier to entry for new people because people come in and they're like i to respond in this threat and i clicked at it and there's this weird colon stuff i don't really get it whereas in other places you reply to comment you are but the problem is once you try to reform something like that. You suddenly realize there's a huge amount of history culture and the way we do things that actually is tied up in that software. Affords what. I mean by. That is at wikipedia. If you leave a comment like if you want iron a discussion and you comment something. I go to reply. And i notice you've misspelled the word clearly just a typo nothing. We're actually that words. So i can correct your typo and hit. Save just as part of my edit and suddenly our conversation does reads much better because you are typo fits and people can see that i did. That's like if. I change your comment to be the opposite of what you said Crazy but that kind of little thing which seems kind of silly it actually art of the whole process award if somebody comes on and off page insulting and rude and somebody else's like that's not helpful little anybody literally anybody can just come into comic because it's just a wiki page and again everyone could see that deleted his old out on it. There's a history you can talk nudo. Oh this person deleted the comment. Why did they do that. And then you look at it and you're like oh actually thanks for the leading that is just being a racist jerk and that's really useful so we got so all that kind of stuff so then you think about if they will. Let's fill the threat common system where anybody can edit anything actually quite hard. It's one of the things that at might pilot project. Wt social that we're doing is we've got comments as like can other people hide your comment editor comment and that's the kind of thing that we're experimenting with. And it's it's hard it's super heart at. It's also a superpower. Maybe it's a practiced skills. Probably both actually of really and this term is used a lot user centric design but putting yourself in the decision tree of someone who is trying to do something it it seems so obvious obviously useful but it is not always obviously done if that makes sense yeah and actually one of the things i find that it actually does done and i think slightly overdone in. Let's put myself in the shoes of a bad actor. So what could a bad person do. And i feel that if you over designed for what a bad person could do then you fail to think about design for perfectly nice people so you could say yeah. Actually a bad person could be really irritating by going around with idiot changing people's comments to say the opposite of what they were going to say. So then your natural response is okay. Let's not let people do that. Then you also cut out all the health. That is possible if you leave people open to be that i have this analogy to i. Call it the steak knives analogy which is imagine you're designing a restaurant and you think okay in my restaurant. I'm going to serve steak. 'cause i like steak and i'm going to give everybody steak knives and one thing we know about people with nines as they might stab each other so therefore building cage around every able so that no one can stab each other and yeah when you hear this you laugh because you're like oh that's hilarious because like yeah but then what do we do. Actually that is true. People could step each other and what we do is we. We recognize that. It's really rare for one thing that we actually don't live in a society where we're living in cages. Because some people might be crazy. We have various institutional society to deal with the problem so for example. If somebody does start saving people in a restaurant usually some brave soul. Awfully young in strong will tackle the person. Stop the violence immediately and we call that a hero. We think that's a great thing to do society as to do what's necessary to prevent damage in tragedy and then we've got the ambulance that comes hopefully fix things and we bought the police to take the person's jail and none of those things are perfect. People sometimes will get stabbed and it is a tragedy and there is no recovering from it. And that's terrible but we still say you know what we don't wanna live in cages. We wouldn't let's redesign everything so that we're in a cage and so i kind of feel this way about when i think about things like the way social networks are designed. I often think. Why can't i go and at somebody else's comment. Well the reason is because they're thinking well bad people will do it and so now no one can do it but actually maybe you have the right kind of systems and processes and transparency in place. It could be a great thing. Maybe not but you know. I think too often if you design for the worst people than you are your failing designed for good people makes a lot of sense. The steak knife metaphor drives the point home. And i have just a few questions. I want to move shortly to current projects and you think about current projects but a few broader questions. I the first is what motivates great contributors. And how do you keep them happy. Or what are the things that keep them happy. That's a great question is is exactly what we think about a lot with. The wiki media foundation thinks about a lot which is what we call community. Health are people having fun. Are they doing good work. Are they enjoying doing good. Were they still supported. Are they supported on all of those things so a great with you. Pedia in my view is someone who really take seriously. The values ideas of wikipedia like neutrality for example quality for example reliable sources and. They always things more important than any particular site political opinion than i have. So as i consider myself a good wikipedia i would not for example edit the entry on donald trump because he makes me crazy and i wouldn't be able to be neutral i would go in and i would probably just my blind rage at this ridiculous. I would make it really hard for me to be a good wikipedia in that area. So i just don't go there and i think a lot of good with comedians like that. It's like okay. Here's something i really am passionate about what i know. I can't really be neutral about it. So i really should just stay away from it and i think that's a great holiday and also just this idea of kindness and thoughtfulness to say i go into this debate. It's gotten a little rough and tumble. But what can i bring to this debate. That will actually help other people become help. This be productive. Maybe i can find a compromise between different people who have different perspectives. And i think those are really great people have in with systematically. Are there things that you can do with respect to the fostering of those values or the cultivation of the engagement of the people who have those values were to some of the organizational decisions. So one of the things that we've done recently that i think is a really fantastic thing. We've introduced a new universal code of conduct. Which is really came from the community. A huge consultation process within the community to really get the wording exactly right and the idea is to say but we have a code of conduct which is really about all these values. It's about being inclusive being open being friendly being a safe space not to use a buzzword but that's been fantastic thing and it really is about saying look we know these values were or wiki pedia. They make wikipedia butter and we also know that sometimes it's quite hard to enforce them because of variety factor so in terms of bad behavior so bad behavior at india. If you come to td and you just start insulting people being racist and being a real jerk. That is so easy to deal with the community. Will you out immediately. you'll get blocked. That's that in the story. It's really not that complicated. There's no internal community drama about it. It is what it is the harder ones are. What about a contributor who's like super productive in writing in some area and they're also quite rude and kind of jerky to other people. Maybe they're just on the borderline of the sort of thing that would get an blocked but they're just like basically a negative energy in the space and they're causing a lot of trouble. That's the ones that the community really does struggle with. I think any system would struggle with because it's like we appreciate the work that you're doing but you're basically probably driving off more good work than you are able to contribute yourself by being a jerk all the time and that is the kind of thing that universal conduct is really meant to sort of up a step up and say you know what actually the fact that you've written thirty five grade entries about some Topic is not excuse. You insulting people in the store. It's just not okay and we will find someone else to write those thirty five things because it's not necessary to be jerk in the community no matter what we do. Those are very human decisions. They're very you know. There is no simple formula. One of the things. We've never done in. Wikipedia never would do have points or likes or that sort of thing because it's just inhuman really is like human personalities are so rich and so very that really like the best thing is like the kind of great week beating in my mind is the person who's able to go in a kind of hold hands with that contributor who's doing great work but being difficult and kind of coached them into being miser as a human being. It's like hey you don't have to go wrong with chip on shoulder all the time. I'm going to help you deal with the problems that you're trying to address but you probably stop yelling at people and we have great people the community who are good at that and that's kind of amazing. I'd like to revisit. This pathological optimism. Because i mean the term pathological is is funny right and i mean if we go to pathos right limit this feeling or in some cases suffering. But let's go with the feeling. I would like to feel more optimism and not to say that i'm your or anything like that but if i could turn the dial a few clicks for general higher state of optimism i feel like i would be better for it. Is that something that just came. Hardwired in you out of the box is it's something that you've developed. How would you answer that. I would say it's just kind of a deeply ingrained part of my personality. But i also think i do cultivate it because you know like anybody i think you can work yourself into a funk. It's not hard to do and you can therefore become more pessimistic than you should. It's not hard for people to do that. And i think if you have a certain set of practices around saying no. Actually i'm gonna remember. Count my blessings. I'm gonna look for the fun bit of this and the opportunity. And what can i change and sometimes what happens to be. This is actually where if we go back to things like your money or your life. There are a lot of people who are stuck in jobs. They don't like but they don't feel that they could leave because they've got this mortgage and car payment and one of the things that book does this. Say okay why do you have that mortgage carping. What if you drove a crappy car instead of the expensive car. What does that mean. Why would you do that to yourself. If it's causing you to be stuck in a job that you hate now obviously that's easier for some people in some circumstances than others but it is a common thing that people get themselves into situation where they're living a lifestyle that's too expensive for what they're earning and therefore they're unhappy and they don't see a way out and one way out is to go you know what you're valuing the wrong things so that's about reflecting and saying you know what actually you know what the greatest thing in the world is degraded thing in the world is and he said you're trying to sell yourself on having kids. The greatest thing in the world is going out with your kids and look at here in the column woodlice sounds disgusting. We called the police in the south. Which is much nicer. You go and you find some raleigh. Foley's right and you look under a rock and you get the raleigh police in you. Roll the get them to roll the monthly again. That's great stuff that's what life is. It's absolutely free and if you remember that sort of thing as a practice not just hopefully but just actually you know what i'm gonna funk about work but you know there's more important things in life let's do that then it turns out that if you can turn your your head around in that way then actually when you get back to the work problem. You're more likely to have a creative solution to the to the situation. What that my mean. What are some of your practices. Maybe they are just a consistent in which case they're kind of preemptively avoiding funk tendencies or when you get into a funk are there particular practices you sit. Count your blessings for instance. How does that. It doesn't have to be this example but if it were something like that how might it manifest in your life. What is what does it look like. I don't know it's so ingrained and it's not like a morning journaling practice. Yeah i don't. I don't like yeah just gotta pull myself together. But i don't want to be too glib. I mean people do struggle with genuine problems of depression People are genuinely very hard circumstances. So it's quite easy from where i sit to go. Yeah just cheer yourself up. And everything's gonna be great and i know that's not right which is pathological but i do think there's something to if you can find that positive side than you do have a better chance of working out whatever the actual problem is right will you. Also i mean speaking someone who has a history of this this goes back hundreds and thousands of years of my family line just given the software but history of depressive episodes twice a year probably extended episodes up until maybe seven or eight years ago. It's difficult to see solutions with that shroud of mist over your perceptive faculties if that makes sense like you see problems but you don't see solutions and that in and of itself is a meta problem. Yeah yeah no it is. It is and i want to be. These are real issues. There are issues war lots of people and so it's it's really if you're in the midst of a depressive episode literally the last thing you need is for metering you on the phone i go. Hey just look on the bright side man come on asshole. You kidding me. Everything sucks right now and. I don't really need this. You know that's not really what i mean but i do think there are things you know sort of remember the good things you know at the dark moments can be quite helpful. What are you working on right now. What is it that you're you're directing your time and energy too. So i spend a lot of time on wti social sort of design and so on a very small team though so the software. Progress is very slow. I deliberately chose not to raise money at the outset. Because i felt if i did. If i'm trying to reinvent social networking if i raise money early which i could do because of my position i would suddenly being on a certain of vc driven treadmill to get to a certain place through this the other. And i just didn't want to. Owners have complete creative freedom to really think and innovate in about some heart problems. So i a Affirmative on that. But i also during lock down the beginning of now outside. I when when we first last march here is when everything went into complete shutdown. It was an amazing weird time suddenly from traveling all over the world giving speeches. I'm here at home. And the kids are here and all that and basically for the first couple of months i was like oh i'll just carry on. I always work from home at work remote. It's no big deal. And then i'm like actually this is we're as i. I can answer more emails. But as anybody who i mean. I'm sure you're this way. If i have a feeling i remember something you wrote about email but like literally with email the property mill is the more email you answer the more email you get like. There's no such thing as finishing like you know it's just like forget. Oh never gonna finish your email because you if you email one hundred people a day that rule gonna freak an email you back tomorrow and twenty more people so you know. It's kind of pless. So then i realized like this is not productive. This is not it. I thought you know what i actually. What am i going to do with myself. I don't know. I mean i'm normally spending a huge amount of time preparing for speeches researching the client who i'm speaking foresaw. I can customize to what they're interested in and then i travel on. I do my speech do press interviews and all that and something. That's all gone gone along with by the way my income. So that's a little bit annoying. And i just thought you know what i love programming. I love coding. Never get a chance to do it. So i basically started doing online programming classes. And just like. I want to get my re up my skills start. Doing things started really learning a lot of interesting things very interested in web. Rtc so video on web and then with my friends and family we started doing a weekly pub quiz here and now i also do it with my mom and dad my family in america m. basically it's just like you know you get on once a weekend and somebody has created a quiz and you do the quiz and everybody jokes around. And that's it. And i thought well this is great but as songs zoom. It's not really that great zoom as raid. It's just business video conferencing tool so i created a new website which is followed quiz night. Neon where is just like a fun but side. so it's all about quizzes. You can go in and create wizards and you can invite people you can schedule just like you schedule zoom meeting and everybody needs an in the middle is the quiz. And everybody's doing it together and there's videos and it's all about teasing your friends and joking around and that is going on. I mean hopefully by the time this podcast is on it will launch. But it's beyond. And i'm really enjoying it. It's like it's one of these things that entrepreneurial each of like here's something that i wanna do. Which is do quiz with my family during lockdown so that we get a chance to to see people eliminate second side ran about social networking and yet. It doesn't quite work. The way i would like to and now i see a way to solve that problem in tech and i'm gonna do it isn't gonna be a commercial success. I hope so is it not. I don't care because it's something. I want to exist so a making it so that i can use it and if everybody else likes it. That's great too. And then my side rant on this front and part of what inspires me. The whole concept of wti socialists. Around the social networking is really broken. It's not healthy jimmy. What does the w. t. stanford a wicky tribune. It's basically a givat. We tribune was kind of thinking about how to get people involved in news and how to collaborate on news and as we were doing that i learned a lot but i came to realize the real problem with news is not what's going on in journalism. It's what's going on in the wider ecosystem where they live. it's that they advertising. Only social media really rewards click bait headlines ole stop and so made headlines league content low quality stuff goes viral and it's not conducive to serious hard hitting journalism also can go viral but it's very expensive with wti social. I just really in this process of thinking. What's what's wrong. What's wrong with social networking. What's unhealthy here. And i suddenly realized as we started doing the weekly quiz my family is kind of dispersed. My mom and dad lynn alabama. My sister lives in seattle brothers in north carolina where we're kind of dispersed and so whatever we talk we we have phone calls from time to time a family. What's group about the kids only. What's that route where we talk about. You know what's going on with mom and dad and how can we help and that sort of thing and basically what i realized is by seeing them all once a week and we're just doing a quiz it's just a fun thing to do and there's mom and there's my sister the one sister who i i kind of grown apart from not not no serious frank or anything but just. We weren't talking that much for a long time somebody. I see them every week. And we're joking around and laughing. We're lacking about stuff when we were kids. And it's really human. And i realize you know like what is social networking. What are we when we think about social uses of computers as so much better so much healthier than for example. Something that's completely innocuous but like if i click like on a picture of my sister's dog on instagram. Are we kidding ourselves at that. Social that is the most limited form of human engagement. It's just like. I like your picture of your dog okay. That's not. that's not a conversation right. That's not actually joking around. It's not talking about the family. It's not teasing each other about a quiz question. You know real human interaction so for me. That's that's really interesting. And so that's kind of what i'm focusing on is like okay. How do we really reimagined. Like from the ground up. What does it mean to use computers in a social way. I think we've met this really opportunity to do that around video simply because because of lockdown like everybody's gotten used to doing zoom calls right it's and obviously we'll we'll stop doing as much of that once. We can go back in meeting a bar. Whatever but you know there are certainly old friends who. I wouldn't need navarre necessarily around london because of all of the world who i'm like. Oh now wouldn't be that weird to go. Oh let's get a bunch of people together and go on together like why not. It's fun count me in. I love this idea in part because zoom calls and videoconferencing without some type of context. Ken work but it can also be very challenging so having an activity one hundred percent is key at least for me. A rate my co-founder contributed put it this way. She's like when you go to your extended family for a holiday dinner. One of the reasons we have that huge dinner is to give everybody something to do. Even if you really love your family it's like suddenly you're popped in front of your mom. Dad brothers sisters cousins. And you're sitting in a room. Staring at each other could be quite awkward but instead we bought these rituals. We got something to do. We've got who's gonna make the mashed potatoes and we we sit together in. You know people have their traditions christmas traditions and that sort of thing and this is kind of that. It's like okay. Yeah if you're going to get your whole family together once a week for a call and got nothing to do. It's going to be. We're very awkward but sightless an activity together. It's a it's a conversation starter about ice breaker. One also emphasize what i think is perhaps sometimes missed not always discussed but the genius of scratching your own itch in the sense that there are many companies that people might assume have these ten year twenty year master plans that have been executed to perfection with all of these strategies and tactics and plans for team and fly wheels and so on but there are certainly i would say just many examples maybe more examples of companies that started as products to scratch the itch of one or two people. And if you design in that way if you build in that way you have. At least a guaranteed market of one which is far less speculative than that. A lot of what goes on so. I'm excited to see where it goes. Yeah i think that's right. I think is is interesting about it really is that we think about what can be successful. So if you're an entrepreneur and you want to go into business. I always tell young entrepreneurs if you just look around and you do some analysis you pick the thing you think is going to make the most money but it's kind of boring to you. Chances are you're not gonna make that much money because his boring team is not something you find is a passion in and of itself. You're just there to try to tick off some boxes and make some money. You might think that's a clever thing. You're like why it's boring. But i'm only do it for five years. I'm going to sell out for the money. It's like no. You're probably going to do it for two years and you're gonna hate every minute of it. You're not going to be good at it because hated versus if you scratch. You're on it. You're like oh here's the thing this existed. I think that'll be cool. I think it'd be interesting by the way it doesn't have to be super product to just anything that you come up with that you're like wow this should exist and i think you'll be cool then if you've built it you can be proud that you built it. If there's some weird reason why it just didn't work out as business fine jimmy. It's so nice to reconnect and spend time together. And i have one last question one or two last questions and this one sometimes goes nowhere. Fast and i'll i'll take blame for. I'll take full blame for it if it if that ends up being the case but if you could put anything on a billboard metaphorically speaking to get a message quote a question an image anything out to billions of people what would you put on that billboard or what might you put aleppo born. Well i mean. I think the thing that immediately pops to my mind is is my original vision statement for wikipedia which is imagine a world which every single person on the planet is given free access to the source of all human knowledge. As to me that is still like wow. That's so exciting. Right just to think. Every single person on the planet completely for free has access to the sum of all human knowledge. You can do anything you can learn you can grow. You can heal you. Think or you know. It's amazing to think about what are all the implications of that statement. And so i just think the more people who are thinking that way obviously for wikipedia. But it's not about his organization but it's just like wow what can we do to make sure that education knowledge are universally accessible as you know a lot of problems on this one at mean as many smart educated people to figure them out as we can. So let's make sure everybody has the ability to join in at intellectual project here. Jimmy people can find quiz night beyond beyond dot com. It's always fun to connect. It's been a little while. And and i really appreciate you taking the time today from so far away although so close via voice. Is there anything else that you'd like to add any closing comments Requests of the audience. Anything at all before we bring this to close now. No i mean. I hope people check out who is not beyond and Coming visit beyond deputy dot social and you know hi on twitter and control on the internet and that's all that is a. That is a good message to leave. Embedded in the minds of everyone listening when in doubt. Don't be troll on the internet. If there's nothing that positive jimmy thank you so much for time really enjoyed the conversation and everybody listening. We will put links to all resources all websites everything that popped up in the show notes. As per usual at teamed up log four slash podcast. And until next time. Thanks for tuning. Hey guys this is tim again. Just a few more things before you take off number one. This five bullet friday. Do you want to get a short email from me. Would you enjoy getting a short email from me. Every friday that provides a little more soul of fun for the weekend and five hundred. Friday's a short email. Where i share the coolest thing. I've found or that had been pondering over the week. That could include favorite new albums. That i've discovered include gizmos and gadgets and all sorts of weird shit that somehow dug up in the world. The esoteric as i do. It could include favorite articles that i've read and that i've shared with my close friends for instance and it's very short. It's just a little tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend if you want to receive that check it out. Just go to four hour. Workweek dot com. That's four hour. Workweek dot com all spelled out. And just drop in your email and you will get the very next one and if you sign up i hope you enjoy. 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SSP006  Using Your Entrepreneurial Voice with Mike Klassen

Solopreneur Success

43:05 min | 2 years ago

SSP006 Using Your Entrepreneurial Voice with Mike Klassen

"Sometimes when we are trying to present ourselves professionally our voice changes a little bit. We tighten up a little bit. We try to sound more radio like and we try to sound more professional, and then that will stress out our voice a little bit. You're listening to my class in professional voice over talent for corporate and training voice overs. Not only does Mike hand out a bunch of great tips like this on using your voice. He also has some terrific thoughts on the entrepreneur versus freelance for mindset, and you're about to hear them because Mike is today's guests on solar preneurs success. Welcome to the solar for no success podcast. West successful business owners gathered to shed true stories and sound advice to help you start and grow your own. Solo piano. Business comes over us and design the like you love. Now here's your host Steve combs. Hello solar preneurs today. I'm interviewing Mike Klassen of very smart longtime entrepreneur like many entrepreneurs Mike's background is diverse and in many ways related. I knew of Mike back when he was a fellow copywriter and a graphic designer websites direct mail packages or what? So Michael junk mail. Yup. There's a definite art to it. But today you might even recognize my voice because he's now an intimate professional voiceover artist. So like, welcome to the show. Thanks for the invitation in your so kind to say, I'm smart. I that that is overly optimistic in some cases, but I do appreciate it. And thank you for the invitation. My pleasure. There's a lot of different kinds of artists have fine art painters. You have graphic designers graffiti, artists photographers and a less goes on. But I imagine there's a lot of variety in the voice talent world as well. Isn't there? Yeah. Absolutely. What I tend to, to focus on his training material learning explainers that sort of stuff. But there's commercial things that you hear on radio and TV all the time. Time there's the phone messaging that you hear when you get placed on that endless tree that frustrates you to. No in where you're trying to get to a human somebody's voicing that. And then animation, that's I did a class, in that and quickly realized I do not have that sort of skill set, so just because you can do voice over in one area doesn't mean you can do it everywhere, and I love to teach. So learning is kind of where I fell into. Gotcha. So we can't blame you for the on hold background at least. No, I'm one of those you know, just like everybody else going operator operator hoping to get through. I understand it pays. Well, so I wouldn't be opposed to doing that sort of work, but it's not where I tend to fall into place there. Just call so overs. It's a cool thing. I think you know you hear about voiceover artists. But how did you get from copywriter? And then you went to graphic designer not your voice over artist. What led you down this fast? Yeah. Well, I started out in high school working in radio now, I was not some famous on our DJ. I did a little bit of. On your work, but a lot of behind the scenes, but in pushing we call him board, operator's, so I got used to a microphone back then eventually moved out of that, and went into computers and ended up at Microsoft doing some tech riding and whatnot. And then I wanted to start my own business. So I enjoyed writing that's what I was doing. Microsoft is a tech writer, so that's where I kind of started out and then by chance I added graphic design for direct marketing as a part of that as well. So that takes us to almost to the voice over my daughter does acting. So I took her to a lot of acting classes, and there was a voiceover class, and I signed her up for that it was a weekend course in Vancouver. I don't live too far from even though I'm in the states, I live close to Vancouver BC. So I took her to this weekend class. And when I came to pick her up each day, the kids were having so much fun doing the voice over, and that's about the time when I was closing in on fifty years of age and kind of reevaluating, you know, just what I want to keep doing do I want to do anything else. And as I look at her having so much. Fun. I thought you know, I used to talk into a microphone, so it's not something that's too far out of my reach. And so I went back and did some training, and that's kind of how I fell into it really by seeing how much my daughter was having a good time with it. That's really cool. I have similar kind of situations where our kids take part in different events. And we, you know, meet people or we learn new experience. For example, we started home schooling our family, because my oldest son back many years ago back in two thousand you know, he was just little guy. And most of the people who are in theater at that point, we're actually homestore's host knowing what's that? And so it's interesting how you can just make new connections. And the most interesting ways, and that's pretty cool that led you down that path that you're helping your daughter and then here, you are doing this. And, you know, I think it's fascinating. Now, here's the funny thing also today is talking with Mike before the show. This is my third interview today decided to do a whole bunch at one shot in and taught an hour long class earlier today, and I can honestly say this is the most, I've probably talked. A single day in a long time. And my throat started gets sore. I might sound a little bit horse at this point. So I was wondering, Mike is a boy of artists, how much time do you spend in your studio, everyday actually recording voice talking into a microphone in? How do you keep from getting sore throats and going horse like come about to go here? Yeah. Well, first of all, your glutton for punishment for doing all that in one day when you're not used to it and your voice will get like that for me. A lot of it actually was from the radio training. I worked in news events was a news director, so going on the air for long, periods of time and reading copy, you just your voice gets trained for that, and you learn how to I think be kind to your voice. Sometimes when we are trying to present ourselves professionally our voice changes a little bit. We tighten up a little bit. We try to sound more radio like and we try to sound more professional, and then that will stress out our voice a little bit. The other thing we don't do a lot of that we should in. General is drinking lots of water keeping ourselves hydrated, and then for me, I know. To take breaks a lot of the e learning stuff that I do especially stuff that needed to be done like yesterday. You know, those, those sort of projects where someone hires you and they needed it yesterday. So you have to do a lot, but you also have to be realistic. And so, I know that there are certain times of the day, that I'm better than others. I know I can go for a certain amount of time, and then I just need to stop. I don't push myself. I don't push my voice because you can hear it over the course of, of many hours of recording. I can hear if I've pushed myself because the first, you know, the first slide of an e learning project it sounds nice and fresh, and you know, somewhere around slide one hundred it's been this subtle change. And then when you come back the next day, you're fresh again. And then it sounds all wonky. So it's mainly giving yourself a chance to rest your voice be hydrated, not try to stress your voice to be something. It isn't. And then, again, like I said, in my case, there was just a lot of experience in my past where I was used to that. And I think there's. Just naturally were I, I can pace myself. That's great advice. I've been thinking a ton of water today. I think it's very interesting. What you said, though, as far as how you stress, your voice, and probably, I'm doing that because this is, you know, podcasting is new thing for me, and it's different for me to speak into a Mike Fennell debut soobee in a typing guy as a copywriter by main line of work. And so this speaking gig is is a is a brand new area. And I love to hear is going to be something that you can kind of train your voice into. But is that something that comes naturally or specific things I should be doing to help their if you don't mind? Well, one thing you want to keep in mind is a lot of things contribute to the stress of our bodies, and the stress of our voice, and as your new for this. You're thinking more than just you and I talking, you've got the technical aspect of what we're doing. You've got in the back of your mind. I've done this a lot and it's almost done on. I'm finally going to be done with this for the day. But then I've gotta do this tomorrow. So part of that is just getting comfortable with all these different. Things that are going on around you, as we're having this conversation. You know, you're probably keeping an eye on the clock to that sort of stuff, believe it or not will kind of stress you out a little bit just slightly. And then whatever stresses out our bodies that will come out in our voice. So you want to get to this point where you can kind of put all this other stuff aside, and just remember that we're just having a conversation here. It's like I'm giving you therapy. Now we're just having a conversation. Stephen Phil Kaye. I want you to lay back and relax on the couch and stuff like that. So it is something that comes with time when you can put all these other new things that you're having to deal with out of your mind, terrific. Hey, I appreciate that. That's the thing is, we want to have a conversation. This is not you know grill Mike. This is that the grill Mike our the conversation with Mike and enjoy our time together. And I'm enjoying this. I'm already running great things audiences as well. But I'm curious about one thing, and that's the voice over work for your clients that we hear about, like audiobook speakers. And, and those speaking tracks. I made a movies they get credit for that. You get credits, like on the back of your, your course you record for something like that. You get credits. No. No, nothing like that. Sometimes when you do audio books, you might get a percentage. And that's that's a whole nother topic. I love to read, but I don't have any desire to do audio books. They don't actually pay that. Well, unless you're a well known name doing a well known book, that's going to sell so getting percentage of a book that doesn't really sell that much isn't that there's a lot of work that goes into an audio book for e-learning. No, there's no set. I, I don't get a percentage of anything sometimes with the commercial work, depending on, if it gets used you might get paid based on it's going to be used for a year. If we use it for another year, you will get paid. Again, you're not re recording it. But in those cases sometimes you can get a little bit of money money back, but not for the type of stuff that I traditionally do. Gotcha. That's actually a great point. I was actually thinking more along the lines like getting your name in the book as as a person through the narration. Depends on what sort of narration. I mean, a lot of companies that I work with when it's alerting they want to keep you because a lot of the training material needs to be updated. I've done a lot of stuff where there have been. There are government regulations. And so if you know if government regulations eventually, they're going to change. Now, the company doesn't want to have to hire somebody else to rerecord anything. They'll wanna come back to you just so you can, you know, change a sentence, or a paragraph or two. But that's that's how I primarily get repeat business. Is when you work with a company that does a lot of training. They're going to keep calling you because they want a consistent sound to their training material. That makes a lot of sense. But you know, as of artists, you, of course, you have to get those first clients in the first place. So how'd you get started getting clients in this new realm? Yeah, that's a great question. And it's, it's, it's just like any other thing where you're trying to convince somebody to use you, and in this, this applies to copywriting design anything where if somebody needs. The type of work that you do chances are they already have somebody to do that. So why would they hire you? So you spend a lot of time, first of all, trying to find a company that does the sort of thing that you provide. So I contacted via Email a lot of companies that do training material, and that's kind of easy to figure out on the internet. There's lots of companies there's that you've never heard of before. I haven't heard of most of the companies that I work with before, but they are out there, and so you reach out to them, let them know what you do. You send them your your demo, which is about a minute. Thirty of, of you doing whatever you do best for me. It's easy learning. And then if they, they need, you, they will ask. For more information, maybe they will put you on their roster if they do a lot of e learning material, I have some companies that I work with where they produce the training material for another company, but that other company will listen to a bunch of voices and say, you know what we liked that foists. Or maybe they want a woman instead of a guy. They want someone who sounds young versus old, and then, they'll say that's the voice, we want so other times, you luck out, and you find a company that says, yeah, we, we were looking for a new voice we just lost somebody, or we were using somebody internally, and we realized he really stinks. And so we'd like to hire a professional. So that's, that's part of how I get worked the direct marketing myself I do have some agents though, I have one in Seattle and one in Dallas. And that's more for commercial work. And what happens there is that voice over talent signs with an agency, and then the jobs, come from them, like I said, usually, that's commercial work, maybe Amazon, or I have to be careful because I can't NDA's prevent me from saying who's hiring and whatnot. But I did complete a project for Microsoft strangely enough having worked for them a few weeks ago, and that came through an agency where it was sent out to a bunch of voice over artists. They had to do an audition with a short script. And then Microsoft, said, we want these people. And so I went into Seattle to, to record. So, basically, the short answer is direct marketing, or some work and from agencies for other associated like explore that connection to slow. But now is that was that for training material, there was actually commercials like a commercial for Microsoft software or something of that nature? In this case, it was four an internal video that was going to play as employees came in for a large company meeting, so they'd walk through the door. And there'd be this video. That's just on a loop kind of inspiring them of what was coming up at this meeting there came to an agency. So when you work with agencies like that, to get like a cut of the overall compensation or how does that? How do you work with an agency in LA? Yeah. Basically the agency will take ten percent. So whatever I get paid the agent gets ten percent of that which is fine because I wouldn't get the job otherwise without an agent. So ten percent doesn't strike me as too bad. It's not bad at puts it in their interest to give you more. Money because they get more money. So that makes a lot of sense to write in the in the joy of that. His I don't have to worry about negotiating what a price would be easy learning is, is pretty easy for me to prize commercial stuff. It can be used in so many different places. And the rates can be all over the place. I personally don't want to deal with that. So I'm happy for an agent to do it. And then give them ten percent if I get the gig that makes a lot of sense to me. So when someone comes to you might from voiceover, what are they really looking from you? Obviously, they're looking for your voice. But why do they hire you as opposed to just recording in house vote won't be the key reasons behind hiring somebody like you a couple of reasons? First of all, yes, you can do it internally, but usually the somebody in a company doesn't have a sound booth. Like I do. So I don't know if it can it shows on this podcast? But as far as when I'm recording my stuff into my software, the sound is very good. It's very clear, and especially when you're doing e earning you don't want stuff in the. Background, like Joe over an accounting. He likes to read, but then the air conditioner came on, so part of, it's kind of, you know, kind of muffled and, and then Joe his, his voice, he kinda, you know, he'd stretched his voice a little bit, too. So by the end of the training, you can barely hear him as he's kinda horsing out his his sound that's one reason, just to professional, a professional recording. Not only in the tone of voice, but also in the clarity. The last thing you wanna do is frustrate people with e learning material that they can't hear or understand. The other thing is just kind of basic. I'm talking normally here and so I'll speed up and slow down. But I know in e learning that you need to take a very deliberate pace not go to slow also need to understand what needs to be stretched out important concepts. I've done some e learning for for some training for technicians who install solar panels. And as I was reading that material I realized, if you make a mistake as a technician you could. Kill yourself literally, you could kill yourself. So when I get to that important stuff, I know I better, slow it down because this is really important. The other thing is a lot of companies don't need a voice over talent every day. So it's kind of pointless to pay somebody for that. It's just like a lot of freelance types of jobs, so good, just to bring somebody in when you need them. And then there's other little things. I mean as far as my personal when people bring me and I have taught before I love the teach. So I'm really comfortable with this sort of material, and at least from what I hear from my clients, is that that comes through. I'm curious when someone does hire you for a voice over project and you got the agreement signed, what does your typical process look like? How do you begin that relationship, and what can your clients expect what usually happens is, they know they're putting together some sort of training material and somebody on their side is usually writing it. And when they con. Packed me. They say you know, here's what we're going to do. This is what we need is far as let me step back to try to give you a more complete picture, often the training material is PowerPoint slides. They will be put into a video and someone will advance through that video looking at those slides, I'll be narrating some content, that's not necessarily on the slide. But some background information, let's say with the solar panels, again, we're showing you how to hook up the batteries and whatnot. There might be a battery of the picture of the battery hookup. But I'm explaining in more detail how you're going to hook that up. So then that gets all merged together. So what I'm usually, send is a PowerPoint file that has in at the presenter notes. If people have used PowerPoint before, you know, there's an area where you can put in the presenter notes. And that's where they usually put in the script for me to read from and I just read each of those slides into a separate file now we're really getting into the nitty gritty which might be overkill for some. But that's usually how it happens. I'm giving the script. I recorded into audio files, send it back to them. And then they merged that together to form the video that their customers are going to see that. That's great. I really had no idea at all. So I was really curious with that looks like and I tried not to get too good about it. But there's a little bit more to it than that. But that's the basics. They give me the script, I read it onto files and then send it back to them. That's the ultimate short answer. Gotcha. So it's like an MP three s and back as like dropbox share or Email, or something like that. I take it. Yeah. It's either an MP three or sometimes they went away, file. And usually they're pretty large so. Yeah, we set it up on a dropbox where I can just upload it to them. Gosh, it makes sense. So let me put you on the spot of it. Let's say someone they have an abysmal budget. Right. And they're small company or whatever they love to hire. You just can't afford Mike's rate. So decided to go ahead and record themselves. So you gave me some tips about voice, and he tips for first timers on recording. Narration with there's learning or something else. Anything that you'd say would become. Universal tips for our self recording. Yeah. There are a few things I've written about that before. So I it's something that does that scenario that you gave me comes up a lot, where someone would like to hire a professional voice, and then you get to price, and it's not that it's ridiculous. But some companies don't have that budget. In fact, no lie about an hour before you and I started this conversation. I had reached out to accompany about they're learning projects, and they wrote back and said, we're a nonprofit, we can't afford the voice over person. So for them, I would point them to document that I wrote that I have on my website about some tips, and one of those talked about earlier is just recording at about the same time each day, if it's going to be over a number of days, if it's a lot of material, because our voice, does change throughout the day, and I don't know. I know as a guy when I wake up in the morning, sometimes I have that deep really manly voice that I wish was mine all throughout the day. But it's not, you know, whatever whatever happened during your sleep, or something you kinda wake up and you've got a little bit of a rough voice, that's probably not the time you wanna be recording something because your voice is going to get its its to its natural point throughout the days. You start talking. So I tell people record at the same time each day. So your voice has a chance of staying the same throughout multiple sessions. It's called voice consistency on. It's making sure that your voice is the same throughout a long project so that you don't sound really low one day and the next day or you know, you recorded later in the day, and your voice is way up here. That's kind of odd for the person to listen to the other thing that I talk about is listened to what you record. I do this all the time if I have multiple recording days for the same project. A listen to what I recorded the day before and read, along with myself to get back into that frame of mind, that I was in and the tempo, things like that, so that when I start recording on the new day I'm kind of close to match. In what I ended up with the other day we talked about being hydrated that's really important because you your mouth will start getting dry. You're, you're you'll get little cliques in your mouth and it's distracting for the listener. So those are a few things we also talked about, you know, taking natural breaks. Don't push yourself. People think I've got to get it all done in one session, you really shouldn't because then that your voice is going to change the other thing that I try to get people to pay attention to is their positioning by the microphone. Let's say the microphone is six inches from your mouth one day, but then it's twelve inches, and I'm going to stand back here and I don't know if you can hear the difference, but I'm further away from the microphone. And maybe if I look over this way I'm still at the same distance from the microphone, but I'm looking over here instead of looking over here, those sorts of things it's just an awareness of your surroundings. So those are some of the tips that I give the people who, who just need to do it for whatever reason on their own. That, that's fantastic. Both as, as a podcast, or, and also, I'm writing. And I am entertaining this idea. I'm not sure if I'll follow through with it, but of possibly narrating my own book because I, I know how it went delivered. And that's going to certainly be a set of tips. I'll absolutely follow whether I do the book or not certainly, for podcasting and I really appreciate that advice. I would like to bring it back a little bit to appear business focus for a bit in the insured. I said, you're smart guy. And I mean that I say that because Mike and I have had a great conversation back and forth by Email for weeks now for those who are listening and one of the topics we've discussed as one of the real differences between a solar preneurs or entrepreneur and a freelancer, and I'll just share that your questions, Mike alone have really caused me to think much deeper on this topic enough, personally, found it very helpful. And so, I know you have some interesting insights on the differences between the two. So I'd like to open the floor for you to share your thoughts on what those differences are for our listeners share. Absolutely. You know, long time ago when I started I started freelancing in two thousand three. And that was with copywriting and I didn't know exactly what I was doing. Other than I knew I wanted to write. But I didn't know anything about running my own business. And so I was hanging out. I don't know if you're familiar with the book, the well-fed writer by Peter baron. Yes. Having a Michelle f-, okay. He there was a Yahoo group, which probably dates this anyway, a Yahoo group where some writers or some wanna be writers, including myself, who read his book, we're discussing things, and we, it was really a lot of for the most part. The blind leading the blind because we had no idea what we were doing except trying to find a way to make a lot of money being a writer, and we knew we could write or we believed we could. But we had trouble with all the other stuff. And I thought why you know, why are we having that sort of trouble? So my original thought was, we have a lot of trouble because we grew up in an employee employer relationship, and that's that's where somebody tells you. That you're good enough to be hired, and they tell you what you're going to be paid. They're gonna tell you what you're going to do. They're going to tell you where you're going to sit. You're gonna tell you how much vacation, you get and win. Maybe you can take it, and if you're not good enough, they'll tell you that too, and fire, you, so that's, that's the typical employee employer relationship as a freelancer, though. You are now responsible for all that. Okay. You have to decide what you're going to get paid. And when you need to take a vacation, and when you don't and all that sort of stuff. And that's where a lot of freelancers stumbled, we knew what we could do the writing part. But all this other stuff was really difficult. And so we were all trying to figure that out. And so my original thought was well, you can be successful as a freelancer, once you figure out all this business related stuff how to market, how to do sales, all that sort of stuff. But yet there was still a missing component to that. And I only discovered it kind of recently and I'm not saying that I'm the one who discovered this, and nobody else did before it was just something that clicked finally in my mind. And that was the difference between an entrepreneur for solar for Noor and a freelancer. And this is where really it opened. My eyes to a new way of thinking I see a lot of freelancers who are threatened because what they do is being undercut, the example. I give a lot as fiber. So as a copywriter, both of us, having the copywriting background, we know that there are a lot of sites where you can get copy written by maybe someone who's good. Maybe not for a very low price. It's not the price that you and I would want to charge to actually have an income where we could support a family. Right. Right. So when we see that we get into a panic, it's like, oh how my going to compete with this. I don't want to charge five dollars for for copyrighting. We get threatened because what I realized we're kind of defining ourselves by our task. I was a copywriter. I was a designer. Now, I'm a voice over talent that is my task. But one, I saw from some of my clients who are entrepreneurs. Is that they didn't define themselves by a task. They define themselves at least internally by their purpose, and I really had to think about that. I have one client who's done a couple of different things. And I've worked with a couple of his company's doing the e learning material, but I learned from him that his purpose is really environmental issues. That's what really drives him. So in a sense, it doesn't always matter so much, what he's doing the tasks that he's doing it just needs to fill needs to file into his purpose. And so the companies that I've worked with for him. They have a bigger purpose than just what the business is. And I began to wonder could my the way I look at what I do and the way I perceive threats to my task. Could that change? If I was more focused on a purpose, then I had to think, well, what would my purpose be, and I'll stop at that point to let you jump in, because I could keep talking until early asleep. I'm actually loving this because this is exactly the kind of conversation. We've been having this past few weeks is what's the real difference? It's all about mindset, and here's the key because especially for solar preneurs because we're sitting here often alone, and our bedroom officer kitchen or or even over at Starbucks. But we don't know anybody over the Starbucks probably except for the barista's, who makes her are lot or whatever. And it's like, okay, I'm doing this business for my clients, I'm kind of feeling alone in the world and what sets me apart. And then here's all these other people as world of competition, and I, I can go online and find people to do what I do all day long for cheaper. So what sets me apart and why should somebody come to me, and you're nailing it. You're saying exactly what our mindset shift needs to be in order to say, hey, there's a good reason why somebody ought to come to me and not, you know, Joe schmo, on fiber, and please carry on, because I'm loving us well, and here's the important thing in this, this can be very difficult. Especially for a freelancer to, to understand. If you are really caught up in your task and I keep going back to copywriter because that's where you and I have some common ground and that doesn't work out. Are you going to be crushed? Are you going to see yourself as a failure? Well, you might if the copywriting doesn't work out, but if you are more focused on a general purpose, you can move onto something else. And I'm gonna give you my personal example. I didn't realize that I had a purpose until I look back at my my career in my work and saw. Yeah. There is a common thread, that's really important to me to the point where I really don't care what the task is is long as I'm serving the purpose I love to teach. I don't know where I got that from. But I really do. I've taught some continuing education classes at a college got a chance to, to teach some business people in Australia. That was a cool trip. You know, to go to Australia and, and teach some people some some business related stuff as a copywriter what I like about. Copywriting is educating people. And sometimes you can do that through sales copies. Not all sales is bad, most of the copy that I write these days is just for myself to, to help other people when I was doing the design stuff, again, working with direct marketers, but I loved being a part of creating something that was educating people and I love this with, with sales stuff. I give the example of my grandmother. She was the type who was into health. She's one hundred years old, as of this moment. So she taken good care of herself. And she would read the stuff that came in the mail that most of us would throw out, there are people who like to be educated in that way. And not all the junk mail as you said earlier, not all of its bad, some of it is, I used to say, I don't write the lies. I just make them look good. But there is a lot of there is a lot of material out there. That's good. And I love being a part of that. I also got to design books for people in these books were educational in somewhere for them. And now in voice over as I've mentioned many times already. I do e learning why. Because I love the teach. I love to help people or business. Get ahead or, or become better than than what they are right now in some way. So that is my passion when I realized that I wasn't so hung up on how I fulfill that as a voice over talent any day, I could wake up and find. I lose my voice. I knew another voice over talent recently who had a stroke a year ago, and he couldn't talk for a while. It took him a long time to come back. And I thought, what would happen if I were to lose my voice would I be crushed, because I can't do the task and I thought no is long as somewhere else I can find a way to deal with the passion, and that's teaching people in reaching people. And for me that was just very eye opening. Like I said, it may not be an original idea. It was original to me, and that changed how I perceive, my task. I don't feel threatened by five or other sites like that. Because if for some reason, the voice over goes away, there are other ways that I can fulfil my desire to have this passion for teaching people in helping people while Mike. This funny. Because now now there's two things were very clearly aligned on and one was the cotton and background. But the other thing is, that's exactly. Why have a podcast now because I also love to teach that I find kind of discovered this recently, I've been doing it for a while and loving it. But it kinda just hit me on not very long ago that, you know, this is kind of like what I've been born to do is when I would lights up my face I tell people about it when I actually do it. I have joy in the doing and it's not like you said, it's not the task because I teach in different ways in my editorial copy for natural health newsletter. I teach Qadri writing classes, and I have the podcast you're, I'm writing a book always different avenues. But they're all about educating and the joy of sharing knowledge and that to me is why a love these conversations and I love the fact that you discovered passion and purpose for yourself and even more important. I love how you brought that out for audience saying, look, it's not about what task you do. And if a rate of loss may fingers on Baker. You know, voice it or don't know. But how, how can you move forward in complete kind of like what you're giving purpose in this world. Did you reborn to do something to me, I think it's to help people, and I love helping people in teaching his is kind of, like the, the gift, I would say that allows me to do that. And it sounds like we're very much aligned like I'm thankful to hear that you've brought that so clearly as a message to this audience. Thank you for that. And I, I love to, to, to kind of preach that message to freelancers because I know what being freelancers. Like I still refer to myself as a freelancer you and I talked about that, I have I have solo poor tendencies and thoughts, but for convenience sake, I refer to myself as a freelancer, and I know how freelancers think. And I know the struggles that they have, and one of them is being to married to the task and I try to get that across to them. It's like try to look. Is there something beyond their purpose? And again, that's what I saw in the entrepreneurs that I was working for. They, they have a purpose. That's what drives them. And so one thing. In particular, when he does one business and in starts another business. And I think a why are you changing businesses? When I look, deeper, his businesses still fit within his main purpose, and that's what drives him that's very important to him. And I thought, okay this guy's really successful. And the other entrepreneurs, I know are really successful and the thing that they seem to have in common is that they won. They have a purpose one. This is a whole other topic. They don't get on social media and complain about their lot in life or waste time on social media. That's probably an interview topic for somebody else to talk about the pros and cons of social media. But I see a lot of people wasting time when they could be using that time so much better. Yes, I've been guilty to pass it that I've actually made some major changes and how I structure my day and my time, and I've even used tools like Leach block the to minimize, for example. That's just that's why use myself I, I put myself on a leash literally where I say, I have ten minutes of social media time ever. Two hours that's it and during the business day up bogus. And so I I keep myself a tight leash, because it's very easy for me. Get sucked into that used to be sucked into the news. And I've been on, I think one news site in the in the past three weeks, and that was for all about five minutes. And that's huge for me and in level of productivity, but more importantly, the level of focus on. What's important to me? Is it really keeping up everything that's going on in the world? Did I can't change anyhow or is it's making a difference for the people with things that I can change? I can change by what I do. And so focused time that's so important. Well, I think in what you're saying, and I've done the same thing is being intentional about how you're using your time I always go back, one of the, the, the business authors that I used to read a lot of I don't do so much anymore, Brian, Tracy and again, I don't know if he originated the sane. But I sure loved it. What's the best use of my time right now? And if you continue to ask yourself, that I'm pretty sure the best use of. Of your time right now in the middle of the day is not, you know, what's in around on social media, or watching a rerun of whatever popular reality show is out there at any given time that really helped me to put stuff aside. That's not important for for me. The social media, I kind of do it once in the morning, once in the evening for me social media's not important for the work that I do for other people that might be, so, you know, your, your mileage may vary as they say, but I needed to strip that out because I wanted more focused time, our time gets pulled so many different directions. In any given our and someone I think we both know Mindy Macoris she recommended a book and the name escapes me, but it was about having a large chunk of focus time where you're just not able to, you know, the phone somewhere else. The, the browsers turned off, if you don't need it, because a lot of times, we're, we're doing work, and just little bits and pieces when it might be better if we could carve out say just an hour of. Uninterrupted time. I know when I'm doing my voice over stuff I can't have phones on that. We, we don't need Fullon's ringing in the background or a little date and saying, you've got a message or something. So in in my case, I'm kind of forced to have to shut things out. But I think everybody would benefit from that, and a lot of what we do back to social media. Get really isn't that important. We try to convince ourselves it is. But I think if we examine it a lot of cases, it's really not. And we could achieve so much more Steve, if we just kind of put some of this stuff out of the way at least temporarily I'm not saying, you know, give it up cold Turkey, but be intentional about when you're doing it. Absolutely mike. This has been great. I have one more question for you. I like to ask most my guess is question because I think it really helps not just put you on a spot for to say, but it kind of helps us know how you're thinking Ford. And that question is, what's next for you and your business. What one thing are you doing right now? Or or Mike. Why should you be doing maybe advisor coach or something to take your business to the next level? What, what's, what's next for my class, I'm gonna. I'm going to give an another answer. I guys I've got two kids who are just entering college, and as a parent. My most important job is seeing them off, successfully, like you. We home school our kids and my kids are both doing college from home. One is attending Berkeley, college of music in Boston, and the other one is going to be attending online college. In Florida, a lot of what I think about these days is just trying to successfully launch them into the world. Like I said, my daughter does acting in voice over. So I kind of manage her career she's doing auditions just as much as I am. And so that is a big part of what I focus on. I don't think as much about what I want for my business because I've got my kids for just another few years before they're out on their own. So that's, that's the main part of, of my answer is I'm really more focused on my kids than my business. The part about the business is I've. Only been doing this part for a few years now and it's still in the building process. So to be quite honest, and I'm happy to be perfectly honest with you. I haven't got it all figured out right now. I'm still trying to figure out some things. I'm still building a good, solid client base. So that I wanna do I also need to get better at commercial work. Commercial work is where the money is. And I'll just be honest money is good. I I love having a purpose and a passion, and that's really important. But I also like making money to and commercial work takes a skill set. A like I said earlier, just because you can do one thing in voice over doesn't mean you can do everything. And so I need to develop my skills, so that I'm more than just an elearning person. I can do other things. My daughter is an example. She's really good at animation. She has a demo and it's like I could not do that. And I don't even want to do that. But I do wanna get better in some other areas. So I want to build those skills up. That's fantastic. I love how your focus is your family. And you know what? That's why I started my own business because be stuck in a cubicle and have somebody else dictate my time to me, and that's why many people listening to show I either are in businessman selves, or they plan to go in business for themselves because they don't wanna be dictated to how they spend their family time, what their priorities are. And that's, that's a wonderful answer. I want to applaud you like that is on the first thing that comes to mind is not even a business. It's family. It goes, honestly. That's why we're supposed to be, you know, if anything that's what we have a business because who wants to support a family, and we, we have these kinds of super, Noor style businesses that opens up opportunities that we wouldn't have otherwise that, that's wonderful. Also, like the fact that, you know, you're open and honest in, it's kind of hard to kind of open yourself up and be vulnerable like that, sometimes they look, I don't have it all figured out. But nobody really does. No one has everything figured out. And that's why we have conversations with other people like this, because we sharpen each other's iron so to speak in a learn from one another and grow and. Just for basic. I'm I'm just blown away by our conversation today to be honest with you. And I and I think to the, the, the stumbling block that some people can have when they're being interviewed, and I used to interview people, you know, in a new setting than stuff is to come across, like, I've, I'm totally successful in everything that I've done, and you should listen to me. I'm still figuring some stuff out. So I'm never gonna be dishonest and make someone believe. Yeah. I've, I'm there the other thing that you mentioned though is so important, and I hope my daughter, doesn't listen in embarrass her. She when she started the, the acting obviously, she needed me to drive her to auditions, which are in Seattle, which is about two hours away. I feel I'm blessed in a way that apparent does not always get a chance to interact with their, their children so much. But when we're in the car so much together going to these auditions, I have a relationship with my daughter, and then with my son to, to a different degree that I wouldn't have if I had been in that cubicle. So it was good that I as much as I loved Microsoft that was the last corporate job. It was a great place to work. I'm so glad that I made this move because I've gotten to interact with my kids in a way that most parents, don't just because of the setup with public school and working and all that sort of stuff. It's nobody's fault. It's just the way it tends to be. But for us, it's, it's been amazing terrific. Well, mike. This has been a wonderful conversation, I've really enjoyed this, and I'm sure it's been help for, for many of our listeners, where can they learn more and connect with you? I am at Mike, Klassen dot com and the spelling, I don't know if you'll have those in the show notes because Classen KLA SEM, but Mike class dot com, you can also find me on linked in that's really about the only social media, I do social media's not as important for me in my business. But if people wanna connect on linked in, you can look me up on the, the Mike classic who does voiceover. So there's a number of us on there, but you'll figure out which one I am. And, and so, and then if people do have questions about voice over, they can Email me through the, the Mike classic dot com site, and I'm happy to answer questions. Awesome. Yet, also point out, you know, if you wanna hear Mike. Voice demo reel. You'll find out in this website too. So my class dot com will be in the show notes. But again, as Mike class, in with a K, K L, A S, S dot com. Mike, it's been my pleasure to have you on. Thanks for joining us, Steve. A appreciate the invitation. Again. Thanks for letting me share with you audience. I appreciate it. Thank you for listening to the solo preneurs success podcast. We hope you discovered valuable advice on how to start and grow your own successful. So leper no business come so with us by joining our community at start gross saw don't come again. That's stopped Grosso dot com. We look forward to seeing you that, hey, solar preneurs steep combs here, again, you can find all the show notes for today's episode at start rose, sore dot com forward slash zero zero six and in case you wondered, why was this episode delayed a week, his because my laptop bit the dust last week and I didn't get episode into production before I had to buy a new laptop rather than get frustrated about it. We just delayed it a week. But don't worry. The good news is no files for loss. I have dozens of great guests just like Mike appearing on the show coming up next week, you can hear my interview with Jennifer Alice who handles publicity and management for speakers authors and other entrepreneurs so make sure you're subscribe now, so you don't miss a single episode. Thank you for listening. And see next week.

Mike Microsoft Steve combs Seattle Vancouver writer Mike hand Mike Klassen Michael junk Mike Fennell Amazon Mike class Australia Starbucks homestore director Stephen Phil Kaye technician
Ep. 109 Rage, Chapters 21-35

Two Guys to the Dark Tower Came: A Podcast about Stephen King and His Books

33:33 min | 6 months ago

Ep. 109 Rage, Chapters 21-35

"In a welcome everyone to two guys to the dark tower came a podcast rediscussed. The characters and connections in the ever expanding universe that revolves around stephen king's dark tower. I'm jay rousseau. And i'm shawn mccur. You can email us at two guys dark tower at gmail.com to support the show visit us at patriotair dot com slash. Two guys. dark tower in this episode will cover the bachmann book rage chapters twenty one to thirty five. Let's start the show. Charlie decker in his hostages continue to share stories about their lives a sharpshooter attempts to kill charlie but the padlock in his shirt pocket stops the bullet realizing that time is running out. Charlie has the shades drawn for one last conversation before the come to a head done dumb. We have come to the end of rage and we realized that charlie survives the incident because he's writing this from his place in a psychiatric hospital and he's looking back on the events that happened at least a year and a half two years previous. It sounds like from the dates and what we can determine and there was a trial and there's some other pieces so he survived in and looking back on this and one of the things that seems obvious in this section from my perspective is how all the characters charlie included seem to us media. Things like television movies as a way of sort of refracting their behavior. It's like a lens on their behavior. They rely on this pop culture to relate to what they're experiencing in the moment. It's almost as if they can't describe what's happening to them without that medium to to project it on and it comes up in more than one of the characters conversations here and i just thought it was interesting and something that we could pull out. Oh yeah there's no question i mean. some of. This is likely the fact that stephen king loves to play in this arena. Yep but there are a lot of things here that the characters rely on for example. The windows that charlie spends time looking through and then get shot out at some point. He thinks of them and and even some of the other students think of them as a tv screen like what. The police in the spectators are looking into the classroom. It's like they're watching this on. Tv or they feel like the students in the classroom. They're inside the tv. They're actors on a tv show and the tv screen is the windows. Yeah that's wall. Yeah the actual. Fourth wall is is the wall of windows and just like on tv where you don't acknowledge that it's there. It's almost as if they're pretending that what's happening out. There in the world doesn't exist in his affecting what's happening to them because they're just not seeing it. Another example is one of the characters name or nickname. I guess is pig pen. It's not as given me. I don't think so. Okay thanks for that clarification. That was nickname. A short for pickety lord. Pigging ten pen- pennsylvania. The third. i mean that's a direct. Oh my gosh also feels like a genuine nickname that somebody who has a reputation for not being super clean right would get in high school. It's pretty mean in all but it comes from pop culture so yeah the characters themselves start to act as if they're kirker movie or a book so i think it's charlie who says it seems everything that happened was just something i imagined or some half-baked writers fantasy. Yeah so clear that he thinks. Hey maybe this isn't really happening. And then later on one of the girls talking about her experience and says it all seems very fake. Like i could behind the living room wall. It would be cardboard with director and cameraman getting ready for the next scene. It's all this playing on that idea. Even when we talked about this last episode. Charlie talks about how you know. The sheriff sees himself as john wayne type and they talk about people coming back for more like an or movie so all these things are mediated through through what they know of pop culture. And it's it's the only way they talk about it. And you and i think this is because they're having a hard time understanding what's happened to themselves and putting it into words and this is the this is the best way that they have at their disposal to other feeling and it's easy to think of this as an early attempt by king into his meta fiction expirations and even the great bugs bunny cartoon where the camera zooms out and you see stephen king. At the artist table with an eraser turns to the camera. Turns to austin says an extinct and here he is. he's like. I'm writing the story. And within that story my characters struggling to express themselves except to almost realize that they themselves are characters in a story and why that makes them feel artificial and manipulated and suffer because they been to my whim the creator of the story. I understand that and i. I don't think that king is quite doing that yet. I think he's much more doing it when we get to the dark. Tower that there. That's very the point to that. I think in this case it's more of a understanding that these kids just don't know how to express themselves and tv's all they got and they're not like us who have simpson's means to share. I mean that's how i express myself as simpson's means a lot of the time so it's almost as if this is just how people act especially teenagers when we talked about last episode. How they're all putting on a front for each other. There's all this facade that they're putting on and so they are expected to act one way and so they put on that. There's the all american guy there's the the virginal good girl. There's you know the the crazy kid the stinky kid. There's all these different roles that they're playing and they have a deeper personality that either they don't allow come out or don't want to come out and so the only way that feels safe for them is by putting it in terms of of of pop culture in some way and they realized that. And so that's why they're talking about it so i don't think it's quite to the meta fictional aspect that kim gets to later on when he actually has characters erasing existence literally in the book to to advance them lot. I think it's just a way of that. These kids are talking. And i related to it because again as i said. This isn't something that's foreign to us when we talk in pop culture all the time. Nowadays it probably was less so back then in the seventies when he wrote this another thing. I think we should spend some time. Talking about is scapegoat. ted yes. ted is presented to us as the. I guess stereotypical perfect american teen and he ultimately becomes the scapegoat to this classroom of kids. Right and it's not really clear. Why like organically within the story. Why ted is the one that they pick out. Why is he the one chosen. But i think you had a pretty good idea about this. Yeah so you know. I think this is an opportunity for king to be writer. Lee as i like to put it. He is playing on a number of influences that we know king has a primary one is truly jackson whose most famous stories the lottery which is specifically around. Scapegoating and king has cited shirley. Jackson is an influence numerous times absolutely most directly in this in salem slot i believe i think he quotes her right at the beginning of that and then also lord of the flies which now is something. That king is definitely familiar with. But i wouldn't be surprised if he taught it when he was teaching high school. Literature at again. Scapegoats in there as well. I saw this as an opportunity for king. Say hey look at me. I'm an author. And i'm playing with bigger themes here as scapegoats. I sort of had a hard time with it. Myself though is like hey. I i understand what king the writer is doing. But i don't know if. I think that that is realistic. In terms of the story because up until this point. This story seem to be very realistic. As far as what. I think might have happened if a person who decided to shoot a teacher and take classroom hostage might happen and it wasn't until charlie asked that question towards the end of you know. What do we need to do next. Everyone raises their hands. And he calls on someone and says well now have to get it on with ten and take care of him. And he's like yeah. That's absolutely right. This obvious scapegoating seen happens which i sorta didn't get. And what was your opinion on what that meant and why was necessary. J i have a few thoughts on this. And i'm not sure if they they might contradict each other a bit but i think one of the things for me which is what i suspect all the other students except ted could easily see through is that ted says is motivation that he thinks. Or what ted thinks is own motivation in. What he says out loud is that he needs to defend the class. He needs to defend himself and his his fellow students from charlie he needs to keep everybody safe is being the good guy and charlies the bad guy but what he's really defending in maybe he doesn't realize it is that he's ted is defending the status quo and that's the thing that the students don't like ted has through no fault of his own really benefited from a tremendous amount of privilege. It seems to me that most of the students in this classroom are middle to low income. Students mugabe ted seems to come from a family. That's wealthy enough to have a country club membership. And he plays golf for fun and he always has the nicest new clothes and the expensive haircut. So there's a lot of reason for ted to want to keep the status quo because it's what helps him. Maintain his privilege. Everyone who doesn't have that privilege or the same. Privileges have a reason to resent ted end to resent the status quo or maybe to resent the status quo and therefore resent ted. So i think that it becomes easier to make. Ted the scapegoat even though he didn't create the status quo and he didn't manufacturer his privilege by taking it out on him. It's the classes opportunity to rebel against that status. Quo and charlies. Therapy is quote unquote. Therapy is exposing the ugly underbelly of society and ted benefits from that society. So he's the only one in the room who wants to preserve it. Charlie's way off out on outside of the borders of society at this point so he has no interest in preserving it in all of the other students. Whether it's the reputation that they they have that they wish they didn't or their lack of income or otherwise they would like things to be different about their lives. And maybe taking a bite out of ted. Let's them take a bite out of that society right. I can see where you're coming from. But the king earn it. Yeah but king and you know what what. What's the impact. So we see that there's doctor's notes in a a weird sort you know. This is all told from. Charlie's first person perspective for the first whatever it is nineteen chapters and then twenty chapters and then all of a sudden we get this interlude chapters doctor's notes about what has happened to ted and now he's barely kobe toes and cognito electroshock therapy and not responding to things so ted gets his for really no reason that makes a whole lot of sense and suffer for it and i don't know if anyone's better off because of that it scapegoating that has no real impact on anything. Yeah and getting to. I mean i like it. I enjoyed the story. And i enjoyed the the scapegoat nature of it. I'll go so far as to say that. Without the catharsis of the scapegoat conclusion. The story would lose all of its power. The story requires the scapegoat. King being rightly be decided. This character will be my scapegoat. And i will plant the seeds for why the students would turn against him throughout the story but even with that work it's still falls. A little short still feels just like king decided before. He's he set. The first were down. That i need a scapegoat. I'm going to have a scapegoat. Mike class will turn on the scapegoat. The story needs to scapegoat so therefore it has scapegoat right. Yeah and it does. Elevate this story. It was a little bit unexpected in as far as getting something different than you might expect from the story. The lesser writers hands all right. So we've talked about ted. We've talked about charlie. And in previous episodes we talked about some of the other characters. But there's one character. I'm really interested in j. And that's the mysterious joe mckennedy who who is one of charlie's friends who mentioned many many times in this book but we never actually see him. What's the deal with joe mckennedy. I'm not sure honestly. Maybe i've seen fight club too many times but i was wondering throughout most of the story whether or not joe mckennedy is even a real person or is he. Like charlie's tyler durden. There's enough evidence. I think that you can make a compelling argument either way i mean the evidence that joe mckennedy is imaginary is that somehow joe always seems to be where i end up is aligned that charlie says to us so that might just be a coincidence or it might be that whenever charlie wants to have that other person nearby or to rely on or or if he's really switching like what happens in fight club that that's what happens like whenever whenever charlie needs to be joe joe's there yup so of course always ends up where charlie is and then there's another line somewhere along the way where charlie says. Circuses have never been our style and it was the hour that caught my attention. The our style as though he and joe mckennedy had so many views in common and they were even down to things like how much they liked the circus. It just felt like something that to friends necessarily have a shared opinion about a we. Talk about civic. I j you. And i always talk about how circuses are. Never been our style. Even though we're two different people all the time. Yeah we have lines exist for exactly my point. Those are a couple of examples of why. I think you could make the argument. That joe mckennedy is not a real character. Yeah that first line is the one that really threw me that. Somehow joe always seems to be where i end up is just weird and that scene i believe is when he's going to a party when he's like twelve or something and it's just weird. How that scene is written and not ridden but sort of explained by charlie. They're both sitting on the porch by themselves. Everyone else is having a party. In one of the girls asks one of them to complain but not both of them and they sort of look at each other like yeah go ahead but it never seems as if there's a conversational circle in those in where joe and charlie and a third person talking amongst themselves. It always seems to be a one on one conversation with saw. Like lois lane never talks to clark kent superman at the same time so weird but on the other hand j. Charlie tells these stories in front of the class and no one shoots up their hand and say wait charlie. Who's this joe. mckennedy you're talking about. I've never seen him in school. No one seems to question him. So maybe joe israel is. Is there any evidence point to the fact. That joke could be in fact a real person. I mean this is where it gets fuzzy for me too. It is through joe. That charleen meets joe's older brother at college and then is introduced to the drug dealer who likes bluegrass and then through that guy they find out about this big party and then they go to the party. And it's basically joe's older brother is they're connecting point to everything that happens in this party scene that charlie relates to us and if joe's not a real person he wouldn't have an older brother who would be in college yada yada so i kinda feel like this is evidence that joe israel but during all of that scene joe never says any words not even charley interacts with joe. Joe's always off somewhere or waiting or he's he's effectively silent so he could be. You know brad pitt. In the empty airplane seat kind of thing right and just charlie just assumes that he's there and he's great my friends in the other end of the room. He's sitting on the couch. He's talking to somebody whatever but he doesn't have any lines in the scene for some reason and i have a very detailed story talking to people who aren't joe. I dunno one last piece that confuses the issue is that near the end of the book. There is a transcription of a letter that charlie receives in the mental hospital in which he gets updates on some of the people in the classroom and things that have happened in the town since the events that are related in the book and king gets to the end of that letter and it has no signature. We don't know who it's from right and it seems like it may be from joe mckennedy. There's joe mckennedy name there and if not him who it's it's very confusing and sort of blurs the issue. I don't know what to think of this. If he is supposed to be a fake person you would think king would make more of it in the book you know. Make it some sort of twist at the end where the doctor diagnosis charleena's schizophrenic or mckennedy makes one last appearance in the mental hospital. When he shouldn't be there or something but he does it. He just sorta leaves it that. I don't know if you and i are reading too much into this or not. But it is an intriguing mystery. What do you think. I think that the more interesting answer to this question is that joe. Mckennedy is not real. I think it's it's it makes the whole story. One more layer of fun or adds one more layer of fun to it for that reason. I think i'm coming down on the side of joma. Kennedy's is an imaginary personality. Or or or otherwise but aside from assigning extra fun to the story on my own my own definition of what what is fun or not a. I don't think king intended to do that. I don't think that was his plan. He didn't add the details to the story to really make that. I think this was inadvertent on his part. And you and i after you know. We joked about fight club. There've been a number of stories in movies that are like fight club we can now just apply that structure to this and see that where it just wasn't there so in other words i think the real answer to that question is joe mckennedy real but it would be fun if he weren't. I'll buy that. It sounds like a fake name to joe kennedy. Speaking of the letter the fact that it doesn't have the signature. It does play into the idea. That king is now messing with us and having some of that fun because you're left wondering who wrote this letter. The first and most obvious choice is it's from joe. Mckennedy it's from his one and only and best friend in the world. of course he'd be the one who wrote the letter but if it's not joe who else could it be then. You have to play the game of process of elimination. Who are the people who are named in the letter and who wouldn't talk about themselves in the third person and then who else might have bothered to write charlie a letter and it really isn't a long list but it's still fun to play that game. Yeah 'cause for all we know. Trolley wrote the letter himself. Well yeah i mean. That's the other thing right. We haven't even talked about the fact. Is charlie reliable narrator or not. Are the things included in here. Can we take them at face value. So yeah well all of that. I think leads us to our dark tower. Fini's i found a few things about you Yeah sure i fund some stuff that we could talk about his dark knees all right when he got at one point. Charlie is wearing a sham. Brave work shirt. Which is the style of roland. And so. I don't know if that is a dark tower. Skinnier king knows of only one type of shirt that men were. Yeah i kind of feel like king war shambhu work shirts and jeans for like most days of most of his life. of course. that's how role undressed and every other character. Yes but out. Do you have any others yes. There's a description that charlie makes of a pink spider with hidden steel legs. I know that mortgage is spider. Like creature didn't have steel legs but on the other hand there's a lot of robots and stuff in the dark tower and you can easily see that there'd be some sort of spider with steel legs coming after roll and it seems like would fit in the dark tower universe pink spider with hidden steel legs. L. allow it. Because we know from king's i guess behind the scenes conversations about the dark tower and in a few other places that he is deathly afraid of spiders. Because of that horrible experience he had as a kid in a hayloft or something right right. So one of the scariest things king can think of is a spider which is why the crimson king has spider legs. Which is why mortared is a spider slash person. So charlie is forced to wear a bow tie to his friend's birthday party against his will and the thing that the bowtie makes him think of is that it's he's got a spider with hidden steel legs. Like it's just waiting to rip his throat out and kill him. It is such a terrible moment in. Charlie's life that he thinks it's a scary thing and the scariest thing that king could use to amp up. How scary and confining that that was by making it a spider. I think it's pretty cool. I think by. Dr cities are fairly weak. I think yours might be a little bit stronger though jay. All right we'll see so. I only had one penny. But it's pig pen has a whole box purple pencils and there's there are quite a few times when the story focuses on this pencil but the fact that the pencils are purple which feels like a random in unlikely color for a regular pencil. Not not one that. Is that draws in purple or something like that right. it's just a number two pencil but it's purple purple. I kind of feel like it's a. It's a nod to the single blade of purple grass that role in saw his vision on the golgotha with the men in black. We think. I thought that's a pretty good insight. The purple blade of grass always threw me like it just seemed odd to me so i think it's a good call out when you point out anything that is purple along those lines young so a single pencil. A single blade of grass both purple. That seems to be something with king for sure. And let's make it a dark tower thing i will. I will give it to you all right awesome. How about yukking it up that any yukking. It up moments sean. I do and yukking it up for me. A lot about the feeling that invokes in me and sometimes it's not necessarily nausea but just sort of the details that captured for me and we finally get a description of the events that preceded charlie taking this classroom in that is when he took a pipe wrench to his teacher mr karlsson. He says i turned around and him. Just once there was a lot of blood. He fell on the floor and his tortoise shell glasses fell off and skated about eight feet. Sliding across the chalk dusty floor. I know there's not a lot of gross things in there. Like i can imagine like this giant pipe wrench hitting this guy and sort of flaying some skin off of them and causing his glasses to fly off the blood mixing with the chock dusty floor. And that's what god me is sort of like that essence of schoolroom Especially back when we were kids in the seventies and eighties when there is actual chock and chalkboards. And you would smell at the school and it would be there. And then the mixing of that with the metallic pain of blood that sorta got me in a very vivid way that i called out for my yukking. It up moment sounds great. I like it and you j. I would say that my definition of yukking it up is slowly evolving. The obvious ones are the ones that make me wanna rich but there are others that are just like they have a certain detail about them that that is kind of off putting to. I'd say this one falls into that category. And this is when charlie is shot by the sniper and he gets a dent in his chest from the padlock on the line is titus was imprinted on my chest in an angry purple and the flesh should been mashed into an indentation that looked deep enough to hold water. And i just. I'm picturing the outline of a padlock. that's as deep as the padlock in his chest in skin. That's kind of gross. So there's my yukking it up. The other word about that moment is i was thinking man. That's a lot like that commercial. When they shoot the lock with the gun and then two lines later. I get to a super script number like we. There's a footnote and the footnote describes that commercial. Exactly yeah i cannot recall in the dozens and dozens and dozens of kings books that i have read a footnote. Can you jay. i can't either. I think this might be the only one. It's so bizarre. It's such a weird little writing thing. And i could just sort of imagine like charlie sitting in a mental hospital writing out the story. And he's like oh. I'd better put a footnote here for my readers. I need my citations in perfect chicago. Manual style format. It's so weird all right well. This is the time on the episode where we love to think our patrons for supporting the show and we like to thank them by giving them access to exclusive patriae on content such as bonus podcast episodes. We are working our way through many of the short stories in nightshift and having a blast reading those so if you would like to hear those become a patron and you can do that by visiting patriot dot com slash. Two guys dark tower. And we'd like to thank. Our newest patron cheryl t who joined recently at the gunslinger level. Thank you cheryl yeah. That's great We appreciated and we hope more of you will join. Thank you all right. The story is dark and no longer in print. But they're still some fun stuff to it might start off also not very fun but both my mom and grandmother made orange jello with carrots in it. And that's something that charlie describes in this book. And i'll have to say about that is the seventies are really weird mad. Like whose idea was to put carrots and jello. Maybe if the caller matches that it would work culinary well to be fair. My grandmother made grapes in jello. But it wasn't just grapes. It was peeled grapes which have really weird consistency to them. I have no response to that. Yeah you shouldn't and normally quite the flavor to jim it and that's joe versus the volcano reference for all you kids out there. I probably should have put the Joe and yukking it up. Whatever you do don't put it near an automated laundry machine because might yeah demon might indeed. Do you have any funds. Because they didn't really fit in with any of our other larger themes or topics. I wanted to just call out here that there are so many hotel precursors to hearts in atlantis in the story. There is a character that charlie is kind of infatuated with named carol grainger. And of course there is a character named carol. Gerber in hearts in atlantis could catch. There are confrontations with police to mixed results. That's common in a lot of king stories but it's definitely an important part of hearts and there are parents who cannot connect with or understand their kids also somewhat common in king stories because anytime he has kids which is often we also get a little bit of their parents and actually one thing. I just thought of now. Is the trip to university of maine. So there's the actual hearts in atlantis. Part of that story takes place at university of maine so like early things that i could see king pulling from again because they were somehow from his own life or interesting rich experiences that he wanted to expand upon and you just changed a few details you bring that up again just reminds me of what a great book that is hearts in atlantis. The trulia really good all right. I had to go you and highbrow comparing parts of the story to one of the better king novels. I'm going to go low brow and we know that mad magazine was a huge influence on king. He's mentioned mad magazine many times. And you could see it in the bad pun. They refer to lawrence belch instead of lawrence welk. And i'm just like that could come right out of bad magazine and probably has yet When charlie's at the college party that one point a song comes on. And it's the only song that gets mentioned by name and it's a song by the addressee. Brothers singing we gotta get it on again And that was a nice call out to the original title of this story which was getting it on. yes. I have never heard of that song before. Neither had i listen to it on youtube and it was but it had a meaningful title. Yes my last fun. Stuff is just a simple call out to black jack gum which is old school bubblegum. Charlie seems to think it's the best ever if you ever had blackjack You know that is not the case. I have two more fun stuff. Items both are just quotes from the book. But the reason why i wanted to call him out now is because i'm thinking of them as old dog years when i read physical copies of a book. If there's something important on a page out you know just dog here at the up. So i have this copy of the bachman books that i bought in like one thousand nine hundred eighty nine or something like that and read it that approximately that time and dog eared a whole bunch of pages that i thought were really cool so anyway long way for me to get to just reading two lines from the book but the reason why is that they stood out to me then it stood out to me again this time and i like him so the first one is when you turn off the main road you have to be prepared to see some funny houses fair enough good observation and the other one is it has been conclusively proved there is no gravity the earth just sucks. That's another good one. Yeah i could see why you dog-eared them and that's all i got it so that's all for this episode of guys to the dark tower came. Thanks jay thank you links to all of our social media is available in the show notes if you like the show. Please rate us on apple podcasts. To support the show visit patriot. Dot com slash. Two guys dark tower next episode. Join us as we cover the bachmann book. The running man chapters minus one hundred two minus seventy one and that will be the running man which i am extremely looking for too. I haven't read this book in years. J i also haven't seen the movie in years but the movie has had a profound effect on my life in many many ways and i'm looking forward to seeing how the book shapes up to that movie. Well i love the book. And i look forward to reading it again with you and i also love the movie. I don't know if it had a profound effect on my childhood but it definitely had an effect it. Did you realize it. All right for jerusalem sean. Mcvay thanks for listening. And we have a novel conversation about stephen king novels and occasionally novella a. Yes novella conversation if you will. How does this thing work again. A sharp shooter a sharp shooter shooter. Shop shooter solid gold. Did it do do.

charlie joe mckennedy ted joe Charlie stephen king joe israel jay rousseau shawn mccur Charlie decker kirker mugabe ted simpson king Mike class charleen joe never john wayne charleena Mckennedy
Part 2:Richard Migliore, John Shirreffs

Thoroughbred Racing Radio Network

56:51 min | 1 year ago

Part 2:Richard Migliore, John Shirreffs

"Presents. With Steve Kerr. Raising and becoming interviews, this is. Stupid. into. Our to spend Segment with rich mcgrory, anti-rich making the drive down from the farm and taking in the start of the Valmont meet. The first five days, and all of them on Fox America's Day at the races, and it just seems listening in and watching rich like you. Guys are having too much fun good, morning. Yeah, we. We are really having a good time, and it's just like everybody so excited to have racing back and. you know trying to get some sense of normalcy in a crazy time in our our history, but The racing was great. You know and that certainly makes it. Fun and easier when you have such a great attitude she talked about. And we've got a great crew in front of the camera, and behind the camera I mean the people that. Are In the truck and you know. The public. To, see the their, the the heroes, unsung heroes in their stages worked tirelessly. Then make our jobs a lot easier so I really I think the people that you don't get to see. They make the show go. Well, and certainly you know I. Could think. You know a handful of them that I you know that I know, and of course we heard from. We heard from Tony last week, but Mitch and Donovan and the there's. Said this I discussed this when everybody I mean the with Andy mostly, but the work that goes into this show wretch it. People I think it's finally sort of registering to people that this is essentially a Saturday. You network broadcast like we see for Breeders Cup and and triple crown days. They're doing one of those every single day. Exactly you know and I, so many of the people back there and I'd be remiss to leave somebody out. That's why I'm reluctant to start naming names, but I I hope they know. Actually I know they know how much I appreciate them every night when I'm leaving I, parked down by the video trucks I walk down, and I just make sure I stop in thanked them. Because I know how hard they work, they're. They're putting in re crazy hours, and but. Their efforts shows I. mean the product right putting out. I I'm so proud of it and. again I. It's because of the people you don't get to see and. You know. The hardest part for me is to drive back and forth because once I get there. I'm in my element I. Love It. I love the NFL. Mont.. And you know I. I I love talking about racing i. You know have obviously such a love for racing as you think about. Andy I mean that's all he thinks about it. Just the the amount of work and effort he puts in is phenomenal and. I was thinking about this the other day. And as everybody else does on Air I. Mean you think about Maggie in the way she looks at horses and and say articulate to explain to people what they should be looking for. A case is doing a great job. Jonathan Greg Wolfman being hosted the hardest job as far as the on air talent because. The air traffic controller you know and they've got something going on in the area all the time where they gotta go for a commercial or or some sort of read and They really to me. Those guys gotta be even more prepared than what we do and we've got to be prepared, but I was thinking about this. The you know when you're a writer. You don't really think that much about the the fans or the the the betters. You're kind of into your own thing. And I know I was and didn't really appreciate. The betters as much. And the more I started thinking about it. There's a lot of similarities between where the jockey does. And what a better does now you gotta follow along I. Go a little audio, but. Everybody has an idea of acceptable risk. Now a riders risk is you know it's dangerous and he kinda puts himself out there. And if you ride a bad race to you a mistake, it's there. It's for everybody to see. so you run the risk of embarrassment besides personal injury. As a better particularly someone that's putting their picks out there in public like Andy Eli Jonathan. If. You're wrong, people. You're a nitwit. Right you're. You're running the risk. Being embarrassed. And then also you're putting up your money, so you again idea of acceptable risk now it's two different kinds of risks, but it's. Very similar in some ways, and this is stuff you think about when you drive two hundred miles a day. I it, it's something that and you and I talked about this before that as as you transition from the writing career into broadcasting and HR D and. X Btv work, and you know the naira contributions, and now this opportunity it. You know it's an evolution, and then you you know you begin to. Fold in things beside just. What course might be uniquely suited for the assignment specially especially off a weekend like this where there was so many? So many specialty kinds of circumstances, you know the Carter Seven eighths and we just talked to shook about. Bring in Code of honor back and. The coma with the performance Horse like newspaper of record coming back after a unsatisfying three-year-old year on the heels of of you know an incredible. Juvenile campaign so I mean there. There's so many working parts to just. The horses and their assignments, and then you, you know you begin to layer in your understanding of the betting proposition and you know it's y the personalities mix and match and melt so well. know because you've got andy coming at it from this specifically a poor player perspective, and then you know all the other elements you mentioned Maggie. And now Acacia in for the meat you and whoever the Tom Amos when when Tom is contributing as a as a consummate Horseman Etcetera, so it It makes it. You know it makes a. You know a nice stew. We we know from. We know from twitter that you're a top flight chef so. This. Is this is a bully base a Bouillabaisse of opinions. You. Know, this method behind my madness I'm I'm looking for something from like the Food Network Camman. Guys give a call. There you go, get get me involved. Let's talk about some of these performances from the weekend. And I. Haven't you know having just had George Weaver and shook talking about the Westchester and and the Carter? Let's actually spend a minute or two on the. On the turf races and of course Chad dominating the weekend and in fact Also won the bogey on Wednesday. Talk a little bit about you know what you saw and what your expectation was of newspaper coming back and I thought it was a good sign, frankly that that this was her assignment, and that she was going to start in a in a state like this, and and it, but by all rights kind of demanding situation, seven eighths on the grass give us some thoughts. I mean obviously wasn't surprised that she won, but I she had such a fast source just outside of Jakarta that. The Way, I saw the race the perfect opportunity I rattle, get to hide behind her a little bit. With legitimate pace in front of her, and he just kind of through the rains out leaving the the gate, and she outran a very fast source in Jakarta, and just kept going And maybe ultimately that's just what she wants to do to be left alone to her own devices to be allowed to run free. You know when they were trying to stretch her out. Obviously, because of the mine oaks and races like that. You had to try to control that speed more, but I think up to a mile. Just stay out of her way. Think like a female version of war because she kept finding menial, the ground was a bit demanding. We had that deluge right before, so it wasn't firm ground and she certainly put up a time. That made you believe that it was firmer then. I know it was She had some good horses chasing her, and of course, Chad finishes one two three four. You don't see that I mean and it speaks to the form. He gets his horses in the forms. Able to keep them in You know because at four horses. You expect maybe one or two don't show up. His forces consistently show up. And this was one of those things that that sort of cheers, fans, and and players. Alike, you know to have the sense that. You know she comes back and is going to have a. you know the kind of year that everybody was anticipating for her as a as a three year old, and I wrote in my analysis rich that. She would not be the first filly to come back as a four year old and recapture her two year old form after having kind of an off year as three year old, and in fact should was just on storm flag, flying kind of had that same kind of situation where this she seemed kind of Sour, and just was not herself and you know sometimes it's a question of getting some some Mary mayor into them. You know some. Some Some therapies you know some on some of. The series, of course, the physical therapies they they, they get distracted, and and they can become nasty in fact, and they don't want to train and. A lot of people don't just take them off the. Off The racetrack, but if you persevere, this is not unusual for for one to then. Get their focus back. This is that's something that I used to talk about a lot with Alan Jerkins. He would talk about so many different phillies he had over the years that were brilliant, two year old and just. Lose their form at three, and like you said Luzern Judaism and not. Kind of cranky and how they would rebound is four year olds almost like they go through. Some growing pains mentally physically, but he used to talk about that a great deal that and the same thing that people would. Tend to pass them off. To the breeding shed, instead of persevering in having them come back full circle, but yeah, that's something he used to talk about a great deal. I think that's part of it with her, but I also think the other part of it is. When? Trying to stretch her out. You knew you had A. Bit more try to get her to settle more and somewhere is just don't WanNa do that. They just want to be able to run free and I to me this performance I think points that out. She just wants to be left alone to run the way she wants to run. Nice well lots to look forward to and chats going to send earn teams and UNI Looney to keeneland for the first lady so We'll look. We'll look forward to what has been an unexpected addition to the the racing calendar few more. Thoughts and I do want to talk to you about some jockey issues too rich before we're joined by John Sheriff's. At about the ten forty five. The the performance of a coma, which was just. One of the jaw droppers of the weekend, and of course volatile did something similar at in the Aristocracies, just drowning foes in both recording over one ten buyers one ten for. The Coleman a one twelve from volatile Some thoughts about. Both of the two dirt races with. Code of honor and mccombs performances. Well, they they both were terrific in their own ways You know coma was wow, you know he just was so impressive jaw dropping. I questioned on their needs stuff. We gotta talk about trying to educate people as well with the sloppy track because he does. Have you know that kind of paddling action? That's not the prettiest action if he would. Actually. In fact, handle is dietrich well. The answer that question with an emphatic Yes And if anything, it almost seemed to to make strike prettier, and we know a bit. It's not about being pretty. It's about being fast, but. He was sensational great job by George Weaver. you know obviously, this is a major player heading into the met mile, and that's the thing about him. Not only does he possess speed. He's already been distances cozy. He has stamina so when you have his kind of speed, and it's controllable. Speedy. He waits on the riders cues. He was doing everything heavier. Kessler wanted to. you know that's when you have something special. Obviously, he he special But. Code of honor. You know he in his comeback I thought Johnny. Velazquez just gave him such a confident. You know first time back Kinda ride and when you can do that, in stake race you know you're GonNa Really. Build off of that. Step forward from it, so you know. I don't think his performance should be. Judged you know Beyer speed figure is your time lies, or you know margin of victory. Wise think about it as He. Basically. Is Shaken off the ring rust, and he should be able to really step fall Merrick, and that's what should be so good at getting horses to. Improve over time so that they have longevity. We've seen horses from them. For years get better at four. Get better at five code of honor, not the biggest horse most robust tours, but definitely filled out as a forty year old in the right places where you feel like he has. Matured physically. I hope they both wind up in the Matt Mile I. think that'd be terrific matchup and considering the contrast in styles one having the kind of speedy does and you know Coleman. Code of honor more of a closing type. I love to see that match up. We get We got a nice. seems every week we get another. Two, three four five horses that keep coming back weekly and. More or less setting themselves up for you know for big things down the. Down the Pike as the season unfolds, and of course, you know, we're sort of jump starting the whole. The whole racing calendar Rich some other. Some other. Things that you were covering Saturday Sunday. What else? What else caught your eye from? You know it's tough on the broadcast front. You know when you know when they're. The races are coming one after the other. Well, obviously volatile I I I. Mean I texted Steve Asmussen right after the race. Like what? What was that like? It was you know another just an absolute free performance And you know the interesting thing is volatile. Breeder's Cup sprint mccomb has got options. You know he could. Could. Sprint they can go a mile. You can go even further potentially so i. thought that performance was just as good a performance as you ever GonNa see. And You know honor AP. I really thought he was gonNA turn tables on authentic You said you have in Jansher. Sign I am such a huge fan of his as horseman. Then as a person, you know, he's somebody I consider a friend. as a matter of fact what you do me a favor when he's on, tell them after I. Hang up with you going into town. And Shipping a book that he let me back to him. You know he's been waiting for it so I'm actually going to go a little post office and get it out to them, I love. I, get! Yeah I I love the Horse's stride. It's so reminiscent. Of His father honor, code, you know kind of head out down very long, striding and of course that again another horseman at a Horse that's. Making these incremental improvements stepping up, he's he's improving, and he's a three year old. That I'm really excited about Obviously I think my personal opinion is Tuesday the laws, the leader of our division at this point still you know I mean just off the Florida Derby and the way he's done things. But You know! The scheduling of the triple crown races. This year is so interesting fascinating to me because you're going to see horses that developing changed different times of the year not packed into. You know five weeks in the spring. and. So much talk about it. Oh, the Belmont amount as it's now that you gone away from mats action this. You know what's been going on in the world in this damage, and it's craziness. That was the most prudent thing to do. Y- horses without foundation without raising young horses to violent half would be unfair at this point because of the way things have happened If horses to win the triple crown this year I, hear people saying Oh, it wouldn't even have to be an astronaut. You wouldn't even be the same thing well wouldn't be the same, but in some ways it'd be more impressive because it had to stay good for a longer period of time, stay healthy and keep their enthusiasm for a much. You know drawn out period of time so. You know I I just I'm listen I love the game of. You know from historical perspective on more of a purist, but. Everything went out the window this year and I think we've got to look at it from a different. Through a different Lens and appreciate it for what it is and I. Think in some ways it would be even more amazing. That force was able to win all three of these racist. Well speaking of the three races, and Mardi McGee. Reporting with conversation from Brendon Walsh Max. Field is going to pass on the on the Belmont Rich if you've not seen that in the last half hour. I would like to see in. The. With the Derby the main aim. Brendan says we think it's the right thing to do and. You'd expect the. Obviously the grass of right there, and and you know right well, how? Course from Friday at Belmont. Well! it's funny. You bring that up, I, you know somebody asked me we'll. We'll back and I said wow, is MRS wherever they they? They thought highly of of him from you know from word, go and. I am a little surprised, but. Mark! He was texting me about waiting for the figure and. He said I'm going to go I'm I'm going to pull a woody Stevens and an Allen Jerkins and and I think we're going to run back so. He'll help I mean he helps. kind of. People the the immediate aftermath here of this Max. `field decision is going to be how oh, it's his. The law three to five but. we'll we'll see Don't you think that Y'all data mine lethal about one forty, six and change. Certainly yeah, yea, tap it to win and. I. I'm glad I guess that they're going to do this. I mean it. It is GONNA help I mean I thought. Charlatan was going to head to the woody Stevens anyway so having him. With this arthroscopic ankle surgery and having him sidelined that also you know for those that were thinking that you know with the retired that Charlotte would go Belmont. Back to Belmont That that obviously another. You know another. Thing that kind of took away from. But I suppose tap to win. KNOW GETS GETS A. ADDS a little bit back to the field. and I'm sure actually if anything REG MAX field. Not running might open up the door for you know two or three others that. that thought that the water was too deep with with Max, field and Tis the law already. No doubt I think he'd probably will encourage other people to step up and give it a try. We could have a huge field in. Belmont the configuration of Almonte Than One turn, violent and apes that long run down the backstretch It could be a brilliant addition of the diamond stakes albeit not the Belmont that you know we're. We normally have You know you. You think back to woody Stevens runs KEESA Dorsey yellow on A. You. Know Mile on Monday. Wins the Belmont stakes to them on Saturday? That's five six day. Last year marked it with got stormy one week. Pizza the boys in the four star. Dave You know. I think when horses are good. Run them, and then when they're not back off them, so I I, you know sixteen days I don't see why you couldn't do it I mean. You certainly impressive enough the other day in the. Again, we have to look at things to a bit of a different Lens. This year I think this could be a lot of fun. and. just looking. Again, had looked at the perspective. Field for. For a few days let Let's give a glance and this may morph. You know pretty pretty readily after this piece of news, but. You know you got you do have the. The consistent or the? The contingent from. Pletcher Farmington Road, Guvener Morse Dr Post Linda, Rice, sitting you know very quietly potentially to pounce with Max Player a bill mott modernised. The course has been OUTTA sight outta mind. He got a very interesting race That that. I suppose this I wonder. If this news changes anything about. The being cone runners that are. Sold the want the and at the end are supposed to run this week, right? Yes, actually you know what Wednesday? I've got a call. Sanford Bacon. Who's part owner of an Indian He had left me a message and wanted to talk about where the horse was going so I gotTa Give Sandy called but Yeah No, you know again. It's interesting because it's different and people are going to have to make decisions on the fly, and as their horses develop and show what they're capable of Again just getting back to this the the core of it. Just so happy that racing's back. You know that that you know king. Go to Belmont. Cover it and presented to people on TV. So that you know we can start coming out of this. I mean I know be other than the going off in the mountains and cook, and it's like I was starved force racing. and I'm just thrilled to be a part of it and be back. Back at it. A couple the notes rich got about five minutes or so before John. SHERIFF'S IS GONNA join us. You talk about coming back I want to ask you about the. You know the. Stewards inquiries and I. Know You spent. You spent quite a bit of time over the weekend when they came up talking about them but I. do want to bring up one. kind of a personal note. We were happy to be able to start reading again ourselves and on Friday. Luis Cardenas. gave minute mouse. a tremendous ride in in the second and. you know she was forty five to one which I'll address that separately about some lessons from that, but she was eager to go rich, and she was throwing her head the chart caller actually said sky gazing, and he got her to settle down. And settled down beautifully behind the that pedal light of of dunks. And she had a chance I mean. She was facing off against that two to five shot of the dropdown of of Seth Clermont and and Chad's who frankly ended up not getting claimed. But. So impressed. Right I'm so impressed with Cardenas, I mean I. it seems like everybody Wants to get him on their horses, seven pounds and I'm. Quite impressed. At impressed. I was impressed with them over the Winter Steve Before racing was suspended. He's got a great work ethic. There's so many ingredients that go into making a good writer young writer that can actually you know. Make It in New York or make it at the upper level, and he's got all the ingredients great attitude, amazing attitude, nicest kid. Great Work Ethic I remember when he won his first race. Of His career, he was out jogging horses the next day for. Ligi Mighty. Not Not I want to raise some jockey. I don't jog horses I don't Gallup. There's no no. He was out. There was a sloppy track. He was out there jogging. And what you said we with with minute match. Nice hands and that's something either you have or you don't. You can get better at it over time, but he's got very nice hands that he can get a horse to settle and that's a lot of natural ability. Horses run from and you know when a kid is young and has that attitude that enthusiasm. They win on long shots or bring big price. Horses in the hit the board because they believe they can win. They go out there believing in their heart. They're going to win and they're excited to be out there with pill for the opportunity, horses feed on that energy. It's when you get older and beat up and physically you know broke down and you go. What am I on the source horsfield that this guy don't have confidence I. Don't have conference and never work. You know you see it all the time. When I was a kid, I wanted horses and as an apprentice. Hundred Sixty dollars two hundred dollars, one hundred eighty dollars. Why, because I went out there? Believing, I could win giving them every opportunity to win. And then again I your your your dance partner is a living breathing. Animal feeds on your energy. You see it on their energy. They believe all of a sudden. You know they might have been. Being written by great jockeys, but that were different stages of their career where they wanted US enthusiastic about riding this particular horse. And now they get a kid who's not nearly as developed experience, but they were. How do the different feeling and they just run out of their shoes for you know people with that attitude so I. It's fun for me to watch I really like everything about him. Being like him. You know his ability that he showing. And of course, his attitude enthusiasm I wish. All kids had that because I. think they stymie themselves from reaching their potential thinking back there in one place. When they really still at another, they should just be really thrilled to do it. Now. Looking forward. Forty getting them. We were running Thursday with with Carlisle ballot and was hoping to get him the there as well, but You had a call, right? Now which is. Era Can't sell is gonNA ride it and there Eric's got both of her wins, and so you know I'm not I got no problem with that, but. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. It's good, and you know, listen I I think the colony on A. Very difficult you know. To stop racing the guys that didn't go like my my brother's Dylan Davis Down to Florida, continue writing, but there were a lot of guys that didn't write for a few months as a jockey to keep yourself physically fit to keep your weight maintain, your weight properly is difficult and from what I see. All these guys really took care of themselves. Press with a lot of the writing I'm seeing I think ray Lou Gutierrez is making a nice impression. A bunch of them. There's just so many good riders there and. You know we're fortunate that we got such a deep colony. Rich John GonNa, join us John Sheriff's momentarily, but before we go your thoughts on the you know the hurting situation and and. Iraq. In a lot of people think that The upstairs they're playing favorites and not calling these. As appropriate some thoughts on the hurting front. I I won't go so far to say. They're playing favorites, but we've seen over time. That is usually. Gets a little more leeway than the others you know that the history of the game. We've kind of seen that, but. I. I just don't understand like yesterday. He won the state by those therapists and I was so thrilled for you know Christoph Command and their crew that tragic day for them a horrible accident on the Jersey Turnpike with their van. But. You're hitting right handed. You come down three paths. Jose Ortiz's brothers inside Radio Gutierrez trying to ride forward, but responsibly at the same time, and if you watch the head on, he's cocking. Sources head out slightly to try to offset that you know. Brisk towards the fence. And he did make contact. It wasn't a huge bump, but they did make contact about Astrid and a half before the wire, maybe to strive for the wire, and you can clearly see it because destroyed after the way railroad. Look to his lap because you could hear Jose Ortiz yelling from the third four on the set. We're at and I. Turned I saw him look destroyed. After the Y, you know. The contact happened before the wire because of where Ray loo look. He looked at when it was after the why you see the bump before that. and. How. Is it not inhibiting his forward progress? If he's having a cocker, sources head out to try to off his pressure from the outside. And you get beaten knows I don't understand how that doesn't come down and UTAH. Contact with it was still inhibiting is forward privacy he. Completely disregarded Jose Tease. Inside of him! And just followed the the herding in filing drifting in or Jose Cheese. Probably you know. At worst is GonNa Fall, and at best is going to really have to take up and. So why is it his responsibility to protect someone else? Outside of them's causing the problem. Exactly and this the people just want to see it called consistently If I, I'm glad, I'm glad we got it in rich and rich before. I let you go I. Think I think we've got John Sheriff's on with you, and so you can say Ida to John Yourself John Richmond glory with us. Everything. Hey Don congratulations. So happy for you. When I hang up and let you guys. I'm going into the Post Office and get your book out. It's all packing so. Okay take care. Thank you congratulations again. Fever, always great talking to you. Rich mcgladdery and we'll talk to rich alternately hopefully on Mondays on a regular basis along. Joe The and And As John Joins US I. I've been promising John that I'm I've got a book to send him. And John I will do the same thing and get the book that I've been promising you for ages out. Look book is that. That's the hits wrapped up. It's been wrapped up for ages, and so I'm going to have to go back it. It's one of those one of those historic. You remember you showed me This was back when. You brought Yada to Churchill and And you showed me at the same kind of thing historic. Survey. and. That's what this is by colonel. I I, WANNA say Colonel Wall and it's called the great running horses. Oh Great and I knew I knew when I found that that you would absolutely love and I've been every every time I come west. I say I've gotTA. Bring it and I forget it, and then I promise descended, and when Richie said this earlier this morning just half an hour ago, he said Tell sheriffs that sending him his book. I said I had to do the same thing. All right. John thanks for the visit and we, we looked on and watched you preparing honore, pay and it. It seemed that you know you were going to take advantage of this opportunity to talk about winning another Santa Anita Derby. Yeah, Well each one special, obviously for the individual horse than So. Honore P. just at the San Felipe way a little delayed, so we had to start over again with them. So this is a big. This is really important race for honor AP, and and the whole barn and He just trained really well for the rates. we never missed any time for him. With him so This worked out really well. This of course, the. These, are starting to pile up a little bit for you and We think back to the Gormley winning and before that Tiago and You've had you've had really a lots of success. The pointing this, but is different. Because you know here comes. You know the two months later than it was supposed to be. Bringing up those two horses. And and and now honore peso Tiago was a was a horse that We had a lot of trouble with him lugging in so And the in this. For the San, either, Derby, we put an an an extensive bridal extension bid on the other way so. He wouldn't again. And then he ran straight worked out. Really well growingly was a was a Malibu Moon. Who is very aggressive? And What you know how they are they like the play and aggressive, and so we had to find a way to. Sort of calm him down and settled him enough that he could go the mile on eight and in a decent manner. And then and then our AP is like the opposite of all because. He's the horse was a big stride. Scott a really nice dry, so he needed to learn to. Keep extending stride and carrying it as far as he could, and leveling off about footing him in a big frame and having them level off, so we can maximize the uses stride. So You know there are those the three different horses and had to approach the Derby. Three different way. And with the successful result, and of course, no conversation between you, and I about this source and a few others is not going to go too far without bringing up. My favorite living mayor and Hollywood story the gift that keeps on giving. Oh Yeah No. I was. Just thinking about that. And so I have her picture on the wall where he won the starlet and Hugh Hollywood, sorry was was a really amazing Maher. She shed so much heart and. And obviously of talent and he's. Always had the. Will you know she'll always wanted to win? One time he got left. Really badly can remember she had left stumbled going into the first turn. Yourself up and and won the race she. She was a winner. And one of the most amazing, if for people that that like to pull up charts and past performances is there aren't too many horses. A recent history or or previous going back who ran in a maiden race, and then never ran in anything else, but stakes, the rest of her career, and of course broke her maiden. In the Hollywood starlet. It's. It's too bad the one thing that The one thing we can't do. John Anymore I is see her progeny at Hollywood park where she all her raises Yeah, isn't that? That's really tragic. Hollywood park with such an integral part of California racing and Really was was sad to see a clause. For you where you you know you, that was your base. Right I mean the until. I love that that that was a mile in track. We had a little bridle path through a little wooded area to get to the or shoot. We had the training track out in the back so when when the horses? Came Out of the barn and they turned right. They went to the training track. They knew O. K. an easy day. that. The main. Oh. Something's going on. I, love! John, one thing we talked about going in. On the preview side of things leading into the race. The these assignments. You know great ones. They are goals in their own right talk about balancing readiness and having a horse finely tuned versus the long term goal, and of course you know you still are looking toward September. I mean that's the that's the end game here. Right yeah, so it is difficult. Right because as you get. As you get closer to the race. You Start asking the horse to do more training a little harder, maybe a little farther. So, you have to be very careful. That you don't Overdo it because. you just you just want you want the mentally. Desiring to do more. And that's that's one of the keys. That kind of the imagery that I get you know hearing. That is the proverbial. Lemon yet. You don't want to take too much of the lemonade. All Right? Yeah, no, because when you ask them right when they're running. And that lasts eight thousand mile or sixteenths of miles comes up. And they have to reach down deep. Get it. You want them to do it. You know you want them to feel like they can do it. You WanNa the feel like there's something really special, and they can reach down and do it so. You want mentally. Really about racing. Service. Looking at at what You, accomplished Saturday and the way the the calendar now spills out what What are what's your thought? What's the reaction? I, I really haven't thought much about it. I'm Kinda lucky if I can think two or three days ahead of time. Now you're asking weeks or months though my God. That's exactly. I hear you. Well. If you had to guess at. Runs twice more between now and September. How, do you? How how does he react to his performance? How come out of this? came out of the race really well You know first thing you look for is Know the next morning that eat up. Yeah, eighty dollars grain. And he was. Very nice, they'll problems there and So you look at his attitude. You know when you look at them. How how bride is I write up in the morning? And we still has a bride I and that's. That's a plus and. He goes out and. Can Walk and and you look at then you get to Get a vision of is. Overall appearance you know as he tucked up too much going to see his ribs too much How's he holding his head, is he? has his head down to low or the alert looking around. So you know all those little things, just kind of watch, and then you decide what to do next, but. telling somebody for the first week? You know, let the Horse Kinda dictate. What. You should do right try to do something that that he would WANNA do. Well For the CR K team. They, they big win and they've had their share Talk about you talk about Winning a race like this for them. Well yeah. Fifth sharing the such a nice gentleman, his wife Susan. They're just really nice people. And Winning A grade. One for owners is is like. Like A. A big reward for the trainer you even Denver due to win races, and if you can win a grade, one or grade at stake, that's a that's a big plot. For your relationship with that owner. Town and of course, this is This is this is the first time we've seen the LAKER callers. Since the NBA the. Suspended the. Fan Love Kobe. The big well. Exactly Doug Kobe's back. On that topic, I suppose as well we should touch on We should touch on mid courts. Effort some thoughts about the Gold Cup. Well. The GO Cup was a disaster for court. I don't know I. Don't know exactly what happened that the gate, but Victor said he starts a move just as the gate open so. He just he didn't get out of the gate at all. It kind of hopped up in the air, and and he got behind horses. Got A lot of dirt, and as and he tried to victor, try to go inside and had checked. Take them back then. He went to the outside and. And all that time getting a lot of dirt so. I went from bad to worse for for Midcourt, but fortunately he looked really good after the race and. And I'm sure you know have another opportunity at del Mar.. Well I I, I'm GonNa Gasio the Pacific classic the. The immediate. Target! That are the campus. Okay Well, and also since since we're touching base on some of the other performances The the Santa Maria effort going back to last week hard not to love The Stewart! Yeah that's what does. Getting to the gate Oh. What was was very difficult to get her to the gate. We we sort of made a mistake with her. And we took her pass the gap. On the tracks and it's just a good. Standing there for four minutes. Then it was time to go to the gate, and she said no I. Don't think I'm going to go to the gate today's. The phony voice so. It took us a while to get her motivated to go to the gate. But you know after she After. She got in the gate. And and during the race, Mike was really happy with her because. We wanted her to come from off the pace She's not good when she goes to the lead, so it was worked out really well. Maybe we got you got a little farther back Danny. Wanted. To made a nice run at the end, and I think she's a really nice silly. excited. Fear run to well. Well and the Philly and mayor. The whole staff division. John is exciting I. Mean it it. It feels like every week. We're getting another. added and. We'll look forward. I suppose Clement Hirsch For, her. Yeah Yeah Yeah Nice and I want to ask you. Go ahead. No, you go ahead. I'm going to come back because I. I got a I've got a different horse. Ask about, but follow up Going to say hard not to love look so good after A. and when? Once he does that. It's not like she's nervous or anxious at all. She's has a little bit of a stubborn streak tour so. We're just working on getting her to respond a little bit better regard. Nice. the the way you described that too it. It reminds me of the way. Bobby Frankel used to talk about honest lady and all the. All the all the that whole family that just sometimes they've got you know. Sometimes they're smarter than than some of their stablemates. They've they've got a lot more going on upstairs. VERY SMART! Then they you know they they. They like to have things you know they. They get bored and you know they. They get out of that stall. They you know there's things that They've got some things on their minds. Sometimes I gotta ask you. Speaking of history. got You've got to why God maiden winner that worked yesterday and broke the maiden on that that was last weekend. John the zest for the why gods they had a huge weekend. The why gods they, two winners with cliffs, size and zest with you. This is the tap it philly out of life is sweet. No not for me. That was very special because the riot. Life Tweet, so you know I few. She's very. Very. Nice, Philly and She's one of those really happy horses. You know you go to her. Daughter Saul in the mornings, cut her head out to watching. What's going on? The really nice horse around and I think he has a lot of talent. You saw that in the race she's. She she can show steeds. You can close. You can do a lot of things. We wait You're going to see her. Before the ended the meat or wait for Delmore del Mar I think there's a racer opening week at del Mar.. Excellent? Excellent. Well John a lot of excitement obviously for honoree P. A big win in the Santa Anita Derby and now we'll start to look toward a summer assignment, and whether it's that a town or whatever it may be. wouldn't mind seeing. WOULD YOU BE? Would you be verse to running? travers travers and Derby is that something that might make sense. By and Have to keep in mind that California's on the other side of the great divine so yes. Over the Rocky Mountain? Don't don't be invoking those those Pesky rockies John. That's a famous. You're the greatest. John. I'm looking forward with the senior wherever it's GonNa be soon, but honor AP and much much more going on in the barn and well done congratulations to everybody. Always. Find John Sheriffs and keep an eye on Zastava glad. I brought her up and she worked half half mile already back yesterday. When did she let me see something? When did she break her maiden? Her. That was couple of weeks to. It was after things got started again at Santa Anita so for her for her to come back and work a half like that. Let me see. Give me one second. We'll head to the break. Tom Ventura is going to join us. We'll get a preview and get those of you. That want to been online starting tomorrow. Tuesday Wednesday. Thursday Friday the four days of sale and OBI ASS. We'll make sure you understand what to do, so let's see. What What transpired here? Zest broke her maiden. On May Twenty fourth may twenty fourth and She had been away since June of last year as a two year old, and this is a serious philly. TAP it at a life sweet, so from a pedigree standpoint y- the God bread. And and then yesterday she went I work back. As you went to half a mile in forty-nine flat. so zest just like the soap. zadie estimate right. John Sheriff's always find a now. Now I've got to send the book. That I promised him ages ago. I'm pretty sure it's Colonel Wall gotta I'm GonNa have to. It's packaged so. Just? A question of I kept saying to myself well I'm not going to shit I'm gonNA. Be Out there that I and every time I go I. Forget to put it in the suitcase. I think one time I think I did bring it and. Then forgot to bring it to the track, so the thing is. This has been a long time coming. and. It literally whatever that? Whatever it was that an Yada came in. You know leading up to Derby was Derby Week and John had brought her. And then when the track came up wet. He bypassed the. And I'm. GonNa free poppy wasn't the lingerie in. Maybe they were pointing four. and. I. So that's how far back this goes this crazy book that I think the. Let's take a break. Probably might be our last of the morning and we come back Tom Vittore. We'll be down at Oak Cala where they're looking at. These two year, olds, they're gonNA have a bunch of new homes starting tomorrow. Four days four sailed. Back after this hour three about ten minutes in at the races. With Steve. On Sirius XM RADIO Two year, olds, California. Police consider leadership leading all natural pace. The greatly eliminate E. H.. The whistle trainers who trust leader shield. Shouldn't you journey team? Were more contact Joseph Allante. H Eight zero. Business of horses in the world's only accredited equine business program the University of Louisville Equine Business Program University of Louisville has a legacy of excellence for more than twenty five years of equine business. Education classes are taught by industry experts in state of the art facilities located in the heartland of America's Equine Industry the University of Louisville equine business program when it comes to horses. Lee mean business for more information. Visit Business Dot Louisville Dot. EDU SLASH EQUINE Here in Pennsylvania. We have the best breeding program in the country. Thanks in part to a Racehorse Development Trust, fund. It's a trust. It's not tax dollars, and by law are. Fund is completely protected. These difficulties for all of us. What life in America gets back to normal and it will our p. a breeding program will be. Stronger and better than ever to learn more about how we're protecting the trust. GO TO PA BREAD DOT COM to watch a short video. As go to. have. You seen this commercial. University, of Arizona, track industry program can prepare you for an exciting career in racing. Turn your passion into A. Horse racing sports thought went to Yeah Todd Pletcher to and lots of other major players in every area of the industry. Really like what well for starters we have graduates who are executives churchill downs naira. Darlie America Gulfstream Keeneland you name it. They're also regulators racing officials. BLOODSTOCK agents track announcers. Mike Class had a job placement rate of almost ninety percents. Wow, what other college program has results like? What career track are you on? The University of Arizona Racetrack Industry Program Enroll today and get on.

John John Sheriff Dave You AP Belmont California coma Maggie Carter Andy Eli Jonathan Chad Coleman writer Steve Kerr George Weaver Colonel Wall Santa Anita Derby Mike Class John I Valmont
Part 1:George Weaver, Claude ShugMcGaughey

Thoroughbred Racing Radio Network

53:15 min | 1 year ago

Part 1:George Weaver, Claude ShugMcGaughey

"Xm Ports Presents. With Steve! horseracing. Interviews this is. Stupid. Monday June. Good morning serious to nineteen Xm to Oh one sports so nine sixty four, listening to Sirius Xm online at our website as well. You know I it seems. Seems impossible that after A. Weekend of very notable week weekend of racing so many performances and Come back and you name it. Seems impossible to have to. Start with something just so sad and horrific that. It's hard, even it was hard yesterday as the news circulated. About the solely the that. That we're tragedy in New Jersey turnpike. Yesterday morning three am than. Gas Tank explosion, subsequent fire and Ten. Horses from the Christoph Client Barn Perish And I as the news was on. You know was circulating and you know I. The news that there was a van. Then there was horses, and you know maybe thoroughbreds and coming from Florida heading to. As the bits and pieces kept You know coming together and then the confirmation and the subsequent. Clermont Barn. Acknowledgement. Just the Overwhelming sadness and tragedy. That goes with this and. You know what what Saturday gave Sunday morning in a really took away and and it just. It's hard I. Start Typically on Mondays with the recap. I typically start with. Whatever. Just kind of grabs me as You know the most notable. Element of of the weekend and it just. Difficult not to. I don't even want to say. Get it out of the way he got. That's not the case. Just! As everybody has already that has dried grapple with it and acknowledge it the. Extension of. Sympathies. Deepest and profound to everybody involved and know much the way we celebrate and we will celebrate. The couple dozen. Stakes winners from the weekend and and more. There's there's that many multiples of. People affected by this including breeders. the. consigners and the developers that. Had their hands on on these horses. than. The ownership. Elements and West Point involved with the two of the of the ten. And so all of their. Partners and by extension anybody that. Is involved with West Point I. Mean it it. It has A. Trickle down. Effect everybody in their families. And then, of course, to Christoph and his staff. So just. An inconceivable it it just. Spent all day, literally e yesterday just. Kept coming, up and it. It just seems impossible to. Digest? And! Absorb. A loss of this magnitude but like Like so much else about. The. Sport and the industry. Everyone perseveres, and that included the Clermont Barn that went out yesterday in the afternoon at Belmont. And a pair of races. Richard Li the the bluff team. Including the steak and No matter how you feel about. The Nandi Q. That was. Seemingly A A. At least the mood Lightner to some degree for the Clermont. Barn, Panama earlier in the day and then. Therapist in that first defense the last week of the five day start to the new. York action and the action was tremendous. Will get the. The great one Carter in fact. George will be the first visitor of the morning. The Kalma spectacular. But. Had To. You know just. Send our. just our. Sympathies and Support TAB everybody affected by. Yesterday morning strategy tragedy Going to the racing, and whether it was Friday afternoons. Belmont pick five carryover. Go through that sequence. Then, on Saturday, the the pick six. The force out the. The pick five was. It was a big opportunity for for players player advantage in fact, positive expectation advantage more money. Given back to the players then. Was Bet in. The Friday card and it was it was. Predictably Tricky and Those that made it through I mean we'll get to the specifics. But. Bar In fact involved. In that, too, because that first time starter. Uncle George! With a A big rally boy looked on the turn like there was no way and uncle George kept coming in fact, that was part of junior Alvarado sweeping. The late pick three. which was quite something and the the big name of course from the weekend? From the five days a rat Ortiz. Who just? Insanely. Five just you can't even call it hot. It transcends that. Thirteen for twenty nine. To start. Yes Thirteen for twenty nine thirteen wins in twenty nine mounts. The Saturday. Stakes action and. We'll talk. And the explosive performance. In the Carter. And for George Weaver. I the first grade one for George. One plenty of stakes since Lighthouse Bay one, the prior S in two thousand thirteen, but first grade one for George. Since Lighthouse Bay. Javier Castellano. And a good. Good few days for the air as things get started. At Belmont one with rushing fall of course the bogus opening day. But for combs performance just One of referencing. Several just. Jaw dropping type efforts, and there's been a steady parade of them. In a since, the racing really got back in earnest. Chad Brown having. Tremendous. Tremendous weekend. And still regard in the Fort Marcy. But. It was newspaper of record winning the intercontinental that really. Just. Impossible not to be. Excited and happy to see her come back. As a four year old and Race some of the frustration from from last year. went to the front under a rat and. And just looked like. Her old self. Very very much. She's GONNA head. Looks like the first lady where she annuity may collide seems likely. And in fact, the speaking of the first lady. Keeneland, the with the stakes schedule get to that because I've got a whole series of. Racetrack updates and news. A lot of good news actually. Many layers of it including. Several venues where? Owners are and patrons in some cases are. Going to be able to attend. That continues to expand a lot of incremental. Gain. We'll get to all of that and we'll also get some news that. We can do some reporting on Arlington but. Today a pivotal day. So the I. R. B. Gets. Back with the parties involved, they worked over the weekend. The. And the Orangemen in. Arlington Management Tony Patillo and they have apparently come close, but cannot seem to. Hammer out. An agreement. Arlington did relent on the. Patron question about. Racing even though there might not be spectators. They backed off that original claim. They're willing to open. Even if State of Illinois isn't. Ready to. To Let. SPECTATORS BE INVOLVED So that was A. Concession on their end Some dates things were very close and in fact the thing that they. They came together on if the horsemen would agree to a second year of this. Apparently, that would have gotten it over the top, so we'll see if. The. Illinois Racing Board can. You know maybe pushed the peanut. For both parties today as shit, no more. Later this afternoon watch. WATCH MARCUS URGES UPDATES. Marcus will be. Watching it in listening in I'm sure. So, that's your Arlington Update. Will we should know whether there's going to be racing Arlington this year. By the end of the day. It's possible to believe. In that. Circumstance. Back to racing recapping and among those. Performances that just were. You know part of a Saturday that. That would not relent. Started early and it went. into the evening. Particularly with the Santa Anita's big seven stay card, not just the stakes either debut of Suzanne. The three million plus dollar. Purchase as a two year old. Part of a incredible weakened by the way for Hill and Dale I-. Unbelievable including. KITTEN's joy getting the two thousand guineas winner. MECO unbelievable but say. By Carlin. Bread. debuts. It wasn't. It wasn't necessarily something that would fetch. Thirty million at Sotheby's. But it was pretty, it was pretty pretty okay. Good start eighty-seven biographers as on and they. With Flavian Pratt and The rest of the the major stake action on Saturday. Cow Breads and. The big great ones. Honore P. we'll talk to John Sheriff's. At about ten forty five. And Honorary P. You heard from Jape Ribbon. All along the way that as the distances got longer and as he matured. Very much of an expectation. That he would. Continue to. Rise up on the. The pecking order for the three euros this year and he absolutely. Was In command. Of the Santa Anita Derby Authentic in Iran okay. Not. Doesn't necessarily some of the people that you know wondered. How far he wants to go. We'll see. But honor AP absolutely belong to the day belonged to him. I'm looking forward to talking to John About winning another Santa Anita Derby. An antibody. What an hour later! Improbable another horse that supposedly wasn't gonNA ever be able to get a mile and a quarter on his own two feet four feet. Probable. Really strong, really strong. And wins the Hollywood Gold Cup. Drayton Van Dyke. Powered away. And then, in fact the. Return yesterday. Late in the afternoon early evening Mackenzie back in that triple bent and was was. I. Wasn't you know wasn't. Brilliant do it was very very much. Dispatch that that group in the triple bent, but he was wanted to. But he thought he ran well. Coming, back! Seven eighths. And then of course there was the giant price grinning tiger that was that was something that lit up the the day mid mid card. In the crystal water. That was that was something else on a wire job that that absolutely you know you went back and look I mean. I had not really given that race much much of a glance but. In a pace scenario, there was no reason. Thick running tiger. Could you know we figured the prominent I? I suppose him taking the blinkers off may have. Obscured! You know how much of an edge he was going to have from a pace standpoint. But. That was. In fact, the the final tote? What was the final toll. Where's my? My Santa needed page. Ninety two to one. That's certainly that certainly you know. The contest by the way speaking contest how about? How about the way things turned on that front? Of We We've got to get knocked out. So much to die through, but we'll get to that and. It was a big suffice it to say it was a very big. Saturday contest results for. Our guests from during the week. because. Not only. Not only was. The. Still Dying, trying to find the not only the Tyler Hoffman. Come back and win. The need to challenge on Saturday but They've Basler. was was a as well so The two guests from during the week I than eighth and Tyler. Who had the big price? Who had the CAP horse? He. Takes out seventeen, thousand and one I mean he won. In contest dollars. Mean a blowout win. Won The way the coma one. Seventeen thousand Robert Resent was. Was second for about thirteen thousand, so that's a blowout. Tyler off and a lot of people excited for seven. Twenty eight years old. Pretty pretty cool and I, and congratulations the Dave to the bachelor that was that was all right seeing his name on. There's a lot of familiar names on the board. Whole bunch of them a lot of familiar names visiting today. I told you George Weaver. This hour after the break, but shook to. We'll talk show. At about nine forty-five code, of honor, Comes back performer had to scratch. Just a little. It can't be too serious just enough to little tweak in the ankle just seems a little sounds like he was a little be. Because, sugar, saying. He thinks he could. Run in the met so. Obviously, it's not too big of a deal. But not gonNA miss any time. similarly on an ankle front. Charlotte with what what? Sounds like. Maybe a little spurt! BAFFERT said it wasn't even a a flake. Even, but they're gonNA do little arthroscopic. So he's He's GonNa. Miss not, just the Belmont or the woody Stevens but I mean he's pout and probably ninety probably ninety two hundred days. So he'll miss the summer and Derby back for the fall. So. Couple of A couple of Knicks here and there. So George Weaver shook John. sheriffs later Tom Ventura to get tom back in. They finished up on Saturday at O. B. S.. There's apparently excellent attendance and. A very hopeful and Optimistic. Quite optimism. For the four day. Combined Sale. And we'll talk to Tom. I. Know Some people I've actually heard talked to some people that. Can't get down there, so we're going to go over the arrangements what you have to do to. Did Online, we'll watch it to really. Be Prepared and. If that's that's what you WANNA. Do and if that's what you're forced to do. And, of course all the video of the bring show. Available the website so Tom Mentor later. Richard bigly. We'll talk to. Do some recapping, get some thoughts. He could probably address. At least some of the. The stewards inquiry. Situations that arose there were there were a handful there well, there were a bunch of. Inquiries that. For the most part didn't result indeed. That's that's his. For for certain for certain percentage of of players, that's just as dissatisfying as take downs. So big this morning. Talk about the TV show. TV shows, really been fun. And more and more, we also got to talk about Some of the other international stuff that went on I haven't even mentioned volatile yet. I started to tell you about about ellendale huge weekend volatile. Unbelievable blowout. In the nineties ended up I. The one eleven buyer then Andy tweaked it to one twelve. To. One ten plus buyer performances and at a bunch more. Let's take a quick break. Get go with George Weaver. Had himself a huge weekend back after this. With Steve. On Sirius XM radio. Relation to your roads in California. Police considerably she'll leading all natural pace. The greatly eliminate Ph. the list of trainers who trust leader, shield. Shouldn't you join the team? To, learn more contact Joseph Allante. Five. Business of horses in the world's only accredited equine business program, the University of Louisville Equine Business Program the University of Louisville has a legacy of excellence for more than twenty five years of equine business, education classes are taught by industry experts in state of the art facilities located in the heartland of America's equine. Industry the University of Louisville Equine Business program when it comes to horses, Lee mean business for more information. Visit Business Dot Louisville. Dot Edu slash equine. Here in Pennsylvania, we have the best breeding program in the country. Thanks in part to a racehorse. Development Trust Fund. It's a trust it's not tax dollars, and by law are. Fund is completely protected. These difficulties for all of us. What life in America it's back to normal and it will our P. Eight breeding program will be here stronger and better than ever to learn more about how we're protecting the trust. GO TO BREAD DOT COM to watch a short video. Have you seen this commercial. At the, University of Arizona race. Track Industry. Program can prepare you for an exciting career in racing. Turn your passion into. The horse racing school thought. Yeah Todd Pletcher to and lots of other major players in every area of the industry. Like what well for starters we have graduates who were executives of Churchill downs naira Darlene America Gulfstream keeneland. You name it. They're also regulators racing officials. BLOODSTOCK agents track announcers. Mike Class had a job placement rate of ninety percents. Wow, what other college program has results like? What career track are you on the University of Arizona Racetrack Industry? Program enroll today and get on track for success. Nearly ninety percent of our students are employed in the racing industry immediately upon graduation for scholarship opportunities and more check out our website at UA. Dash Rt. Ip dot, Org. Now back to at the races with steep on Sirius Xm radio. We're back. Twenty five minutes into our one on this Monday. Just A. Big Big Saturday and and really a big week considering the return of racing in New York the five days of action at Belmont and Zuma on Thursday and really everywhere, we looked. Churchill will get to and Santa Anita. Also Gulfstream and in fact George Weaver. WHO JOINS US now? Also won the game face with up in smoke down at Gulfstream but it was the performance of the coma that absolutely. Not just resonated, but resounded and the coma who won a lot of fans last year on Route to classic try. As come back and. Made himself a a prominent. Player. On the sprint scene and We'll see what shape it takes, but the first thing to talk about is George Weaver and the family and Randy Hill and comas wind Saturday the Carter George Congratulations. Thank. Big weekend for us. I would say and we'll. We'll talk about game. Face the game face when with up in smoke at that point, but in New York not only not only those coma win, but then twenty five minutes later, thorny tail winds had allowance and you in Harvey and you know back to back and then of course yesterday you came within. A cue that nobody would have argued with of winning the first offense with majestic. Dunhill as well, but Let's talk about the waiver. Coma has started his four year old year. We've put a lot of time and tell them to bring them back. you know we had against? Time offers a three year old and We had some of these races in mind. And you, we get a little extra time off because we didn't want to get them all stopping breath go. In January or February when there really wasn't any marquee races. For Him. so we. Kinda had in mind that we like to get him back to the racist probably in March or April. And we were thinking about the car before he bring them back in the Carter in early April as a possibility. with with everything that happened everything changed schedule change, and we have the right amount search out, but. Anyway? He's always been a special horse. He's been special from day one and You know I would just very proud of the horse. I'm very happy for my. Randy to be involved with such a great horse, and then you know. It's just a you know. We would wake up every day and do what we do. Have this love this game? I always hoping that you'll get all of horses and Just feeling to have one and can't be more proud of the awards. You know you really. Really jumped up on Saturday Iran exceptional and. You know really Is, a tricky performance watching it. It's it's interesting. I mean not that the Derby try. Know over a wet track is is necessarily Germane to this, but you know. To some degree. I, you know I try. In A. Normal setting. Let's say in a you know in with a field. This was eleven. What Eleven Horsfield? Actually. The WHO'D WE LOSE? We lost performer ended up actually ended up down an eight after the scratches, but. The talk about the wet track with him, and and what your thoughts were as the day and as the weather kind of. Betrayed us a little bit on Saturday. Well. It'd be honest with you know it's. It's easy to wrong to things out. After the fact, the market one a quarterback going into it I wasn't happy with the rain common. You, know it's the same scenario happened their day. The clouds opened often attracts and and You know we walked over and that stuff on there began. It was glueing. It was You know the track was is sucking shoes off federally. And reality is everybody, poppy, track and get. Everyone's a different. You know it just depends on the you know Churchill Almonte and it depends on whether or not. They gotta be along and they're not. And things like that so. With the dirt performance I I was really prefer for it to have been fast-track going into it. Spread like the mud. And you know when I was in the Paddock Hobby said look i. don't think the worst has trouble with the track and the. Derby he said it wasn't bad and. Probably, a quarter was a little further wanted to go that day. And? Maybe wasn't. That is just wasn't as bad. Not He told me in the fat, said the horse it not really. act like a problem with the track on every day. You know as other states so. You know when he said that and he took more than phony of warm-up. Good looks like he was happening while out there on stuff so. in retrospect. Looks like we didn't have a problem with it I wouldn't obviously it's not concern me in the future if we catch probably track. Now. And A couple of a couple of points. George that you, you inferred here, including the distance scenario in becoming in becoming a great at stake winner at two three and four, which is you know certainly nice, and the great one. is the next step up, you know. He won the Nashua as as a two year old, the Bluegrass last year, and now the Carter so he's gone right up the scale but the seven eighths. Talk a little bit about. You know his distance preference because being out of that. Mona de Momma the spikes town mayor I it. It might just be that that this is his game this you know this elongated sprint I know it's going to you know as the year goes on going to be able to make some decisions toward. At six furlongs, or or you know I would think that the mild the dirt miles going to end up being part of the conversation some thoughts about his. You know his tract ability, and you know how you think he's. He's changed from three to four in that regard. Well of course was a late fall. And early on the two, and for year old I would say maybe not the biggest statue horse. You know Not, the heaviest horse and whatnot, but there's a big difference in order that she as far as how much he's filled out. He's like mature and. You just like a man now you don't want was doing three. Maybe have a little bit of boys. Look through them, and now he's he's. He's grown up and go man. So. He's a very impressive. More look at now. And You know as far as distance and all that I always had a suspicion. He was a little better. If one, I didn't know it. And I find best going. Know it, but You know this year. I wanted to come back in. Those type arranged. And see and you know I think all options are open and the year very competent and the Horse in work six a so a mile. And then the question becomes you know. We want you to go beyond that. At amount of things, dominate or further any you know any be as good a horses that different. You know huge in the bluegrass at Amman and. And Nazi was the best source that day. Probably went two miles against. That feel that they don't want so. But. He's a pretty freakishly talented horse and You know all kinds of options for us down the road. You know the book at the Mall where you know it's been recovered. Quick enough performance and. No not going be other spots down the road, but when it comes to the breeders, Cup into you're looking at. You know eating sprint at the mile and make most sense based on what we've seen. We are now. Well and and I I it one of the real frustrations when you think about that dirt mile, you know the idea was that it was going to take its place. alongside races like the met mile and the Cigar Mile and you know the configuration. Now the we haven't been at Belmont and forever there's really just. So few opportunities to run it as a one turn mile that. It's something of a you know something of A. Fish out of water, in terms of what it's original intent was for the Breeders Cup, but you know certainly style style wise with him. It feels like after watching Saturday that you could really do anything with them. you know and you mentioned that? He was a May fall. He wasn't just a May fall. He was may twenty second. So I mean he was really. I, think both him code of honor were born at the farm, and it's pretty both each other. Maybe it's about. You know sort of on Randburg. Saturday as well. There Good examples of why you shouldn't get too concerned about a late old. and. I'm pulling it up and sure Enough Code of honor may twenty third, so a day apart that very. That's very cool. Actually I love it, and Alpha Delta, They boarded at lanes end. Vocals. Each Other Department have been. Stars on that's Great. That's Great I. Love it and we're GONNA. Talk to shrug actually next to George well. Talk a little bit. You mentioned the Mike gases and. For, Randy, Randy's happy winning. You know winning twenty, five nine two, so I'm sure he was thrilled. Strange strangest feeling the. There we are you know? One of the crowning moments to one of the biggest moment. then. Randy and I've had together and Mike as well. And We all had to do it by phone. Our back to the bar and I'm with my horse, and I'm talking on the phone I felt like I needed to celebrate all the people that. You know that are part of our one our family. You know it would have been A. It would have been a great night. That's how one on and you. Just have locking sites I mean we're all excited and Elliott? It is what it is. It's the day with living in. But We currently. Would have been celebrating a lot more. No doubt and you know to that topic. I suppose we could include the wind up in smoke, and how many horses are still down at Palm Beach Dance? We, Up Toga yesterday got about a dozen. will be wrapped up within a week around the first thirty here. On Friday and then outbid. sculpturing Gulfstream's for for short term anyway. Get! Settled in and. We can do this summer. Excellent excellent well and overall your. You're feeling about the way things worked out. I mean obviously having the Palm Beach downs winter base was a godsend and the being able to shelter there until things got you know set and became clear when New York was was going to. Move forward and and get started, and we really hit the ground running these first five days. Most of the horses ran big. And there's not. Very. Lucky to the the virus didn't You know like I said. It affected the celebrations and they know how going out. And hanging out with the owner and stuff like that, but as far as my. Daily existence you know we've come to the barn and trained, and we've had an opportunity to run it and we got the ship only of honor over there. Apple Blossom you know. Luckily, it's not You know it hasn't had a simple and he's been able to operate. Horses fit getting. Sir Well, and of course right after the wind by Makoma Thorny, Tale with the allowance win and eighty nine buyer. For Him Gansta State, Bread Company paid a nice price to and then yesterday. Any thoughts about the majestic hill made the decision to run on, Sunday the first defense and and certainly ran in ran well and could have easily been put up A. Have questioned. Had there been a D Q although under yesterday's. Difficult Circumstance I'm sure everybody was happy for the Clermont Barn the to stay up. Look at Vermont had a tragedy what happened to US forces and You know per trainer to loosen horses like that and I just feel bad for all the those horses. and. I thought that Jesse. John Hill have been training very well. I was torn about him. You know. I was thinking if for any chance that the coma gets or college or anything about right with him, I wanNA run the justice. DOT, com! Doing really really well. Thought about putting on a plane and running in the triple bend. It sends me I think he liked at seven eight. Then I got to thinking well the triple thin. What am I gonNA? Do spent all talked about ship on. Run, against Mackenzie in flagstaff. Just didn't seem it seemed like a lot of effort, and you're up against a little bit like I'm confident he would have. Finished, no worse than third of a triple thin, but that's not going to be expensive. And then I teams around with Brian them in the Westchester almost Vaneman Westchester try to one time mile fifteen but that. came out for. The end of the day. Just struggle figure out what to do with. Race I'll put it back on the last. I didn't I didn't know what he was doing so. You've been affected on Augusta four but I didn't know if he can really be because it's been better on the dirt. So we were kind of an experiment ran huge. And You know I when I watched the mood but I was afterwards 'cause I was. Just wanted a little bit of an exclamation I read. He's a great race was very sad. You know he wasn't going down the stretch making I'm gonNA say my lane. I'm going to. Keep hurting the jets donald intimidate. The horse I mean heard of him the whole way down the lane. You could see over the left side of the. kind of product kind of session. Maybe bunk close to the wire and and. Relatives on the inside on the inside of the worst. kind of check the late. So. You know I think that I agree with you with the horsemen blake taken down and then I. Don't think anybody would go out of that happen. I thought there was this Brown's. Perhaps it. Circumstance look for months and You know with the loss of the Austin this that I don't know that they're not but. Essentially. I'm having one reason. Is Probably. was really you know majestic gun hill reality? Think about it. Okay. Maybe he could've thought that you know what I mean. Like. We had his opposition good. No -sorts out. Maybe he could have. Any. So I. Think with the that's what the Spirit's back on. Like okay, you got hurt, but it's the race guiding. Them and they wanted to lead about. I think that's how we saw it. And You know I'm okay with it and all this land big and I'm not sure if it costs us the winter die, but. My only point to them was that allows. Is that what? At what point? Where where's the line that 'cause I myself regarding maximum security. In the Derby like I think he was the best horse on the day. Then when we're talking about, Kentucky dirty. You know what I don't agree with this boss that we should know what he did affected a lot of horses that I don't believe in forces in my like that, you'll never know for sure. But I don't believe the world will going on. Myself. Could have got up in or will got himself gotTA. Come back and finish lesson or something like that but. You know he pretty much TV after that so. But there's a fine line about where. You know. Where do you take the horse down based on? You know I I it. It's bad coffee. You've got a bunch of the second time. When I was into by. The county. There's an inquiry with him. And, there was some contacts that I. think that over there. came out to like look. The best force might know. It wasn't about contacts. I think for the better. That's what they want right. They got the horses the best in the race. They want them left out. It's so. It's so tough and. They're. The. The foul is a foul crowd. You know we'll say that it. Doesn't you know whatever it is? Whatever the circumstances fouls afoul, then then there's you know the interpretation than trying to read into what transpired, and and what might have transpired otherwise and it's. I say this all the time. I, just I I just hope that you know when it's time when it's time for me to go that I've that I've one. You know a dollar to more. Under those circumstances that take downs and or not take that I I I just I try to. Just, say in the long run. You hope you either break. Even come out slightly ahead. That's all you can. That's all you can do. The thing that I think. Needs to. Enrich Meg. L'OREAL addressed this when we talked to rich next hour. Is. Consistency, I mean you said. You know if they're gonNA. If they're going to call it, I mean call it consistently and the hurting. That's gone on in New York. I mean for an extended. IT! It's just. It's not just a question of. Taking Taking potential wins away it. It's also dangerous I. Mean I it's. It's not it's not something that. Is Is. Harmless. By any stretch it. And not just done help. Get tight on the rail. They're almost. I think he was on the inside on Chatsworth. Zimba dumb. You know. I've got two different issues here. At did it affect the outcome, but Rattigan days or did they? Manage you. You know you want you know you wanNA raise your force, but you can't be riding like that I. Don't know exactly exactly that. Don't get me wrong. I read you know you watch him, and he is. He arrived and all great writers or like that. When you're a trainer and you want you want around like that. That's hungry. And it will do whatever they can to make sure they get into awhile. He wrote you know. He wrote the line and. And got the win. So you know I have great respect for all right I'm not. I'm not knocking them I. Just you know it's just a matter of what the interpretation of rules and what are they? You know executive fraction and what's not infraction. Exactly right, that's an and and calling it. Consistently in in whatever jurisdiction we're talking about George, a couple of quick notes and before I bring shrug in and. Up in smoke the three year old filly wins the. Game face and this is for black type, thorough thoroughbreds and randy, and one nicely under Harumi Oh. quick thought about her. Them. You know I. I just made a mistake and ran along with Tom. He's the salary. You know. They all indicate it. She'd probably want to go further. And You know when I ran in the long race. Clearly, she ran like a horse. It didn't appreciate it that much you know she. She made a little run down the backside into the three, and then she's. kind of flat from there, but you know other Nats Brenton. She'd been very good the main thing with her. She just had a little. He has a little bit of a disconnect disengaging early when she's in between ORCAS. Right the rider. Reports from writers. It's not about the dirt. He feel a little uncomfortable being in and amongst horses. At once it wants to get outside. So You know it bothers me that she does, but then I then against. He's under beat. It's. Kinda like. You know, how much did you change I? Mean what keep peaking around with her and hopefully she'll learn over time. You know not to give up that deficit. But, the other thing is that. All the routers are written her say. She's very nice. Like I don't think that her speed figures, and and whatnot is giving the rider. They you know they come back. I mentioned can really rock. So, we're excited about it. We'll take her up to Pick up to Sarah and they pick out one of those spots. I don't know she's good enough to win like the test, or maybe the pirates later in the meat and You know we'll just get her up. There freshman up little bit and give her a shot. Though 'cause she's She's done very well. Excellent. A couple of quick maiden special thoughts, too, because Friday at Gulfstream and at Belmont, you got girl dad of Malibu Moon Colt In the first race we're looking at a five furlong, turf, sprint, and same thing. in the tenth ended the day at Gulfstream and first time starter for starlight and Randy by the name of thrill. Candy ride another Candy Reid a Philly and Peter, Bouma. And This is one of those getaway horses. It looks like down south. I'll tell you what I do. Both horses five eight five. short-form, you gotta be Hamad the whole way. you know I'm in a situation with both more I think it's just better to get a race into them so. It will not surprise me if they win. They'd had their fit enough, but I'm not sure. The Father Mike might ended up being used. Attach your form. But Hopefully we will get some. Get out money, even if a finishing second and third. That's enough. To get things going for themselves in a position run wild Certosa. The and you know after after A. Atypical Saratoga last year for the Weaver, Barn. GotTa get back gotta got back on track. Because you know you, Seth Maryland I and we count on you early in the meet as a as a visitor, so we you know we can set up all the winners that you're going to have. It helped me. It helped me though to have the slow. Because every year hand the pressure kept mounting I. How am I GonNa? pull it out. It was like years and years. I'm. Getting up with world went meet twelve flipped. Stable and whatnot back like okay back to reality. I'm only here. We're we. We won't be trying to tell you that we won't go down without a fight. And of course I don't know if you saw the The you not a twitter guy, but You know I invoked lighthouse. Bay The the last grade. One for you so Nice to nice to knocked down. You. Know another great one. Yeah, he's look. This is a special lighthouse. Day was a nice silly at might not like this sources, legitimate really illegitimate grade one or she's been special and. It would have been You know it would have been a little bit of a misfortune for him not to get something like this on his resume. He didn't WanNa happen Saturday or sometime in the future, but. This is a really really special forces down a legitimate Freak. Great One town. I'm glad that he was able to show it and get it done. Happy for you and the GAZZA's family and before Randy and George. Feels like things. Get Back Rolling and. Valmont rest of the way and then up to Saratoga, and they fix your barn by the way you. Your Barn took a hell of a hit with that tree the texture I saw. Both of the damage was to the Valve House. which directly by officer they did after. I think they had put. Maybe, work on the roof of the barn about a third of the Bar, but Bar and actually take damage as valid house back there, but vowed to report and the positive sprinkler system and whatnot. It I know it's been hectic for those guys up there. They were they had a bunch of damage of the main trackside to that storm, so had. For tornadoes and stuff around there at the time it's. Pretty crazy. Spin nuts already and Hale and God knows what George Get them all up safely, and we'll look forward to seeing you at the Oklahoma. We're actually hopefully Belmont Week. Actually it'd be down for Belmont weeks. Looking forward to that. Should be great. George Weaver everybody and the coma another greatest state win the great one Carter, and now a great at stake winner at two three four. Staying right here because should mcgahey is standing by and.

George Weaver Randy Hill Carter George Uncle George Coma Arlington New York Sirius XM radio Clermont Barn Mike Class Steve Churchill Almonte New Jersey tom Florida Chad Brown Richard Li Mackenzie Iran Christoph Client Barn
Episode 16, The Audience Choice Episode

OUTcast Podcast

44:53 min | 2 years ago

Episode 16, The Audience Choice Episode

"You're listening to outcast podcast that celebrates the everyday victories for anyone who's ever felt other or like an outcast. I'm Brooks Morlock in my biggest fan girl moment was when two time Tony award winner or anti-fouling my spot of my. I had five fan girl moment when I was seven my mom, and I snuck VIP robes Loverboy concert event. And by the way, this happened at near cedar it, I'm willing near my biggest fan girl moment is every morning when I look in the mirror big fan. Huge. We're talking about fans because this episode is all about you are fans listeners cast is a passion project for the three of us. And we've been blown away by the amount of love and interest. You've all shown us our pilots. Thank you so much for Angie and our Instagram specifically, that's where we feel if you can talk to you about what you wanna hear. We want to do next what we can be doing better released fry on that. So it really helps our podcast great review and subscribe wherever you might be listening. It means so much that you not only listen to our sons the right in your own thoughts. We do our best to be inclusive and talked about all sides of an issue. But sometimes we might come up short. And when you right into health ac-, another point of view, it helps us and everyone listening think about another person. So thank you. You've already been in some amazing questions topics that you wanna hear shock about we received so many responses so today, we're gonna answer few. So I wanna kick it off with at nobody here who wants us to talk about the topic of failure. I want to say something maybe a hot take is that I don't believe in failure in the sense that I really think everything happens for a reason, I don't think you have to look at if you shift your focus of saying either something wrong or I made a mistake in. Instead look at it as I might not have done exactly what what was expected of me. But what did I learn from this in hell led do better next time? I think failure has such a negative connotation to it be kinda shift your focus of thinking about it. It might be totally different experience for you rather. They all fucked up not taking anything from it. Which opens I would say that my biggest fears in life are heights, nNcholas cage failure. And honest, I really try to avoid all three of those as much as I can. But there's this great line in head over heels which closed on Broadway on January six it says we often meet our on the same road we use to avoid it. And I think that that is really true about failure. Like so many times I going out of my way to avoid failing. And I still meet the safe eight if that makes that said, I'm admittedly really horrible at handling failure knowing what's it look stupid at all might one of my real biggest fears as learning choreography in group. I'm one of those people who likes to to watch it step away practice it. Make it perfect then presented back to you. But that's like me in my own personal block because you're not really failing failing in that setting is is really final. It's like you're making mistakes, but mistakes are different. Someone said failure is a mistake without growth failure is vinyl mistakes can be righted in this past weekend. I was in San Francisco for leadership conference in the. Militates asses do this activity. So everyone who isn't driving while listening to the show, please do this activity with me so spread your hands by the side of your face, your hands are and then you're gonna clasp your hands together. Which of your thumbs is on top last. My left is on top. While will my left is also excellent. So now spread your hands by the side of your face and put the opposite on top. Weird feels weird right shoe on their own exactly. Last time hands us at your face in in grippier hints together. Again, what did you do the first finger of the second? I I did the first one as well in. Why is that it's because you do it's natural unless there's an incentive to do. Otherwise, you're always going to default. It's easy. My mind is. And so unless there's some sort of external awareness or external incentive, you're always going to is in human nature. It's in habit. It's just what works in. So not huge. Takeaway, this even in the way that we class for hands. We have an opportunity to retrain our brain. And so that was my big kind of failure take away for the weekend. It's like as long as an external external impetus or input you can search ship that we. Yeah. To be as I don't think it has to be as I mean, the examples fantastic. I think the way that we can think about that is what is the impetus, and what is the need to succeed Reich is the opposite of failure success or accomplish. And I think if you look at it like, oh, I need to make the certain grade to be successful in this class or I need to what is you set that tone of success or failure? Like when we tried to put our hand on the opposite are on the opposite side, we were successful because we had to focus on it. And I think if you're focusing on success instead of focusing on failure focusing on the fear than you have the opportunity to be more successful because of that, right? But you said about failure is a mistake without growth, which I kinda felt like related to what I said. Because obviously everyone's gonna make mistakes. Everybody's human. I learned from him on Montana that everybody makes mistakes. Everybody has those days. Every knows what I'm talking about. Everybody gets that way. And I feel like the whole point of failure. 'cause they're gonna happen inevitably is to learn from it. What could I have done better here? What can I take away from this? As what I always. I don't like when people say, what do you regret about your past fucking regret anything because of those things happen the way that they did. I would not be the exact person that I am at this exact moment talking with you guys were grows. A really good. Layer or tier tha that because the things that I truly feel like I failed at are things that I fell down in didn't get back up. I I have made a lot of mistakes line of you know, like I didn't get into any colleges. Even though as valedictorian of my class. What do you mean relate? Listen, no, I was being scouted for football scholarships in the night turned them all down in. It was time for final decision. I hadn't really gotten into any colleges that I want to go to. I ended up writing a letter to the university to see I went there. I had an incredible experience a state college near my family. But like I would classify that as a failure had. I let it just be that. Right. I didn't you know in pivoted. And then because I was playing football. I was allowed to study architecture in because I was in architecture, and they told me, I couldn't know in Arcadia. We're gonna never done the theater program as well. I changed that like I activated that what was otherwise misfortune like not getting into college can be really damaging. But I think as long as you find a way to pit your misfortune. It's not a failure. What you talked about in. Our first episode about your experience at king's idol when your parents enough to end a health. Howdy reaction with you about how other people in the eye injury acting that have been a setback for you. But instead, you took something that could have been perceived one by an you flip down ten turn into this other thing that became. Opened so many doors for you. So I feel like it's more about Decatur recognize all this isn't the best situation. Or maybe this is what wasn't expected. What was gonna happen? Any think what can I do to as you said activated? I like that phrase because I really puts the responsibility on you to take control of the situation, absolutely. So no, we're gonna take a little twist with our next question from at Vincent Lucia. They ask what our accent will as someone with a French last name. I like to to go with the flow will. About for NAS land. I r-. News to me. Well, lanyard. Get into it next up from Vincent Lucia. You're welcome Pinson, they asked what are first time. I'm assuming first time in the bed bedroom was like an if we've been with men and women so I'll happily dive into this. I lost my virginity when I was twelve at a sleep away weekend with the First Baptist Church of my town. So our plan on happening that weekend. Well, yeah. On the January. It was it was our parents signed a waiver. No, it was my first time. And it was like I was so scared and excited and in love with this boy, and yeah, we totally hooked up at twelve. Maybe that's about women. Have you been with women? Yes. I have been with him in I k- when I came out. I was if I should. Reback day. Now, it's out in the open. So. That's why to Texas. I'm taking care of our love child. No, I was with women after I came out. So I came out of fifteen and then I had sex with women all the way through college. But as an out gay, man. I mean. Yeah. Please ask why I don't know why it was kind of. I went to the stage of when I was in college. I was like I need at act more straight in any to be more masculine. And I think I can totally have sex with women. It's cool, and I can have I have like a ton of St. friends, and like most of my friends are heterosexual in. I think at that moment in my life like eighteen nineteen twenty like I wanna be more like them, and I can talk to them about more things if I'm having sex with women. Yeah. I would I would like Google things like how to be more masculine and how to like present present more masculine when I was eighteen nineteen twenty now I don't give two fucks about how masculine feminine. But I think that has come age, and you know, the work I do. You didn't you didn't consider yourself by sexual? No, not at all. Because I always knew that I would end up with a man out end up married to a man living my life of the man. Accents sorry out. I'm a piece of it. My first time on my gosh, it like well like you said, I I always knew on some deep level that I was gay. But in a very typical way, I just wanted to for lack of their to fuck it away. So I remember my very first time was with this boy named Darren and he lived in a not nice part town. I lied to my parents were going that night, my friend Chris picked me up. I told my parents that was going on my friend, Julius house in we're gonna get breakfast at Applebee's in the morning. When I really the Applebee's really specific part of of a plan that actually I think wanted to happen. Maybe a little bit included in secret that into your. And so we went to this kid's house in Hilo not integrate print town, and we. He has parking lot. And we were at his house were drinking. And there was another couple that Cam they kind of Mosey Dauphin. I remember I was so nervous. I remember this Pacific moment of standing in my shower thinking while the next time, I'm home. I'm not gonna be version, and I felt really cool about that. Little did I know eight hours later, I would be lying with this drunk teenage boy on top of me hating every second of it. And I remember looking out the window. Be like what the fuck am. I doing just I'm literally just doing this to tell people that I had sex. So that he wouldn't guy was guy. I hated that so much it was a heated it, it was so bad his rose painted black horrible, so horrible, so horrible. And then this is had sex the woman. I was like, oh, I. Get like people wanna do this all the time makes us FINA out something with wrong with me. Honestly. Nursery was painted black. That's my only take away. Dark day. I had a black room in middle school in high school or middle school, judging you so my first time I was nineteen years old at the university of Tennessee in my dorm room. In morale hall with a guy named Ryan. I spoke about this before because we were listening to Santorum cetera the live concert by garner that Peters. And so on king is so on brand. I mean, that's really all. I have I was very strategic about waiting when I wanted to do it. I did have a lot of hangups. Like, I did think like when I first started having sex that I would never bottom like I would only top 'cause I was still till your point will focusing on a certain level of masculinity. And I at the time it says he hit bottom being receptive sex as the female act. I now know that it actually takes a lot more conus to do that than anything else in the world. Next to child birth which I feel like the parallels are insane. That was my story. We can I ask you a question if you comfortable answering the first time you bottomed a what did that feel like worrying nervous didn't hurt? Have you prepare? I have so many questions about it. I can I can take that. Because if he wants. I both. Both will both have colorectal medical histories. So I actually couldn't until I was I don't know twenty two or twenty three I had to have a corrective surgery. So for me. It was like I was talking to my doctor about it. I was really really wear something. I was working on. I was practicing familiarizing myself with the process in. It was something that was really I guess triumph for me. Because I was in a situation will I know you're the same way where you feel like you might only be able to give your partner fifty percent of yourself. Medically. So I know that that was a simcity. And I know one of our followers and listeners bespoke surgical is a really great gay men's health clinic in New York City in LA that works on restorative repaired of treatments for people that are having trouble with anal sex. And I think that people are like, oh, it's supposed to hurt in the put themselves in really painful in difficult situations, and it's all for the sake of just feeling like you're supposed to which is the worst reason to do anything. Right, right. I mean, that's how I felt when I was that while all this law supposed to be doing granted different situation. But it was dealing falling some invisible struck instruction manual that existed. Absolutely. Cool. I wanna get to our next listener that road in and I'm really sorry. I don't pronounce at Christina JP, another Christina, J, P or JP. Anyway, draping checkmate. They're really interesting question. They say, I'm a CF L one coach parcel when coach and I use y'all whenever I can do you have any suggestions for inclusive way to reference prescribe ways instead of fifty for males thirty five females will. I know that you have a background in coaching. Can you talk about inclusive language in workout? Because I I definitely think that when I'm working out. I hear oh, this is the men's weight is the few wait. I'm like fuck that I want I want to do the men's league if I wanted to I don't think it should be gendered. I got a little excited you go ahead. So I think it's really there's so many ways unpack this. And I think the first thing to address is how to be inclusive in everyday speech when you're speaking to a large class of humans. Right. You can't say, ladies and gentlemen. Come here. Boys girls, listen up. It should be a non gendered very inclusive term y'all is so easy. It's the easiest one. Everyone athletes class come on. Come all everyone gathered around it never needs to be. Hey, guys in it. So I was in class yesterday in the instructor just kept saying, hey, guys guys guys in there were mostly males in the class. But there are two girls in there, and I was annoyed for them. And even though he didn't mean anything by it. It was like why are we using this term? Hey, guys as in all inclusive term. So that's kind of the first piece to unpack in the second pieces unpacking prescribe weights in general, I actually reached out to Christina earlier today about this to provide my feedback whenever we're creating a workout across it workout the reason we create or the reason they were prescribed Wade's created was because of competition. So this idea of prescribed weight comes from the cross games in comes from standardizing fitness in. That's not how ninety percent. Scent of the cross the community or ninety percent of the world who does fitness needs to go about addressing their fitness. If fifty pets point, you know, what I mean, it should it should always be about the stimulus. Thank god. It's so late in my brain. I don't know why it's over with. Earlier. I'm eating. It's all about the stimulus that you want for the workout. So if I say, hey, here is a workout Fran twenty one fifteen nine thrusters pull ups I want everyone in this room all twenty humans in this class to finish under five minutes pick away that will make you finish in under five minutes. N scale the fourth in a way that will make you finish under five minutes because that is what Fran is meant to be. If it's something like weightless. You know, what I mean, it shouldn't in everyone should be on the ground and dying because they have sprinted through something that is at their stimulus that they're meant to achieve. If it is too easy. They will finish sooner. They will not have a good workout. If it is too hard. They will take forever to finish his not desired stimulus of the workout. So the fact that we still have prescribed weights not prescribe ranges is kind of our next battle when it comes to programming especially across the world, the whole can of worms television. But I've always thought that I mean, we have a friend in Brooklyn in the middle of opening Jim they're gonna be doing that of prescribing wait in prescribing a range or something you're one rep max eighty percent of this because everybody's different even if I just started just because I'm assist female doesn't mean that I can do a sixty five pound thruster, tried workout. It should be based off each individual person right in. That's how this in. If you're competing than yeah. You should have prescribed await if it is a competition where you are going up against a bunch of other humans in to see who is better than the other. Right. Then of course. Yeah. The news prescribed because that's how competition works but suffer Christina's questioned. The if they're addressing big class. And they're in their still part of gem prescribe whites. What's the best way for them to address their class? I think so if I saw this workout, and I was addressing Mike class for this workout in. I mean at the gym that I work at still when I fill in to teach if there's a a prescribed wait, I'll say, hey, here are the prescribed weights. If you're a competitive athlete. These are the numbers that you can use to Bayshore workup workout off up. I don't ever say men's weight women's weight. You can look at it. See a fifty deaths thirty five and I was like, but here's what I want from the workout as your coach as someone who's going to be coaching you through the next twenty minutes. Here's what I wanna see from you in. If you have questions about what the way it looked like he. Here's what you can do. Come to me. Hey, I look, I see you human. You look strong. You've been in my class for three years. I know you can do thirty five pounds. I can do fifty pounds. I don't care if what gender you are. If I think like if Kiana came into my class, and it was dumbbell thrusters. I would definitely tell her to do more than thirty five pounds because she's a strong bitch, and she can like chicken, your hunger one hundred exactly in. That's the other thing. It's like it's never should be for scaling down either. It's like she scale up if I know Johnny can come in and do a hundred butterfly Phillips broken guess, what I'm gonna tell him to do with bar muscle ups because I wanna see something that challenges him, you know. So I think it's it's less about scaling down in. It's more about just doing what's good for the athletes, but to Christina's questioned like, yeah. Just a here our effort competitive cross, here's what you should be able to hit. If that is not you and you're here to get your fitness on. Here's the weight range. I'd like you to stay in. And as you have the ability to. To say that another thing I saw I was just dropping in. And I've seen people put men and women in quotation marks. I know that's like low hanging fruit. But like when you really think about like, yes. Cross H Q prescribes it this way. But interpreted as you will it away to soften that scene. Redness are exploring are ex to so that it's not gingered in. So if you're a coach out there thinking of ways that you can do that you probably have your own version of that. Even if it's like different color markers blue Red Eye like the Rx Rx Rx, plus or something like that. We are. That's a really nice way to do it. But to keep things moving. This is a really great question as well. Aaron Michael MacAulay asked if we can talk a little bit about masculine versus feminine debate. As it relates to cross it in also what our thoughts are on other high intensity workouts like Barry's bootcamp and the like. And so I thought this is interesting. We got a lot of questions about masculine versus seven cross it. Perception in optics. I'm not really sure that I see I feel like, unfortunately, New York City. We are presented with a lot of diversity in the gym. I could imagine though that maybe in smaller boxes or boxes with less representation. Things might have that optics two guys know anything I will say that when the Cecil's that I work out with typically what my specific class time. I notice a lot of them putting themselves down about what they're going to accomplish during the workout or what the F they're gonna be able to do that weight on there. Like, all I can't do that. Do this Stadler. I'm I don't think I could do that. I'm gonna do this. There's an immediate assumption on their part that they're not gonna be able to complete the workout in the way that it's evaded. It's written for them in. I wondering if that's a bigger conversation. I wonder what may be irrigates is in the male side. Of course, I'm gonna finish this, right? Exactly. I don't know. So many I don't know many women that think that I'd know about maybe two or three, but there's always like a star of on. All see how I do are. Maybe this. I don't know. I thought that was interesting to me grow. I think air may be even more in the vein of hey, people who do cross are super mask, even the girls, or like, you know, what I mean in how like all the females that do cross it are considered like Butch or Fiqh or what's the word like, Jack, or I don't wanna get what I heard it forever. I don't. I know what you think. Bulking? Yeah. And then on on the other side of the hit workouts, berries that you see a larger female demographic in workouts like that. I think that's also to do with their marketing. And I think that's fantastic that they have an amazing marketing budget and marketing team, that's incredible. But to the point of errands question, I think there is a huge detractor from women joining cross it because it is seen as such a masculine sport. I think maybe the bigger thing here is that cardio seen as female and strength. The scene is Yale. Really when I what I saw my female friends that are typically runners I simply will do Barry's all come to our gym to arbox summer palace on hamlet thusly. I can't do that. It's too hard core hard. I don't know how you do that. Like, definitely improbably kick my ass. Not to say, there's you at the putting your. Exactly as I such. I do wanna talk a little bit about other hit classes because I'm in total boutique, fitness not every time that I go to on any sort of AK shin. The first thing I do is map out all of the nation. Gems I live to see on your Instagram where you find to work out a one time you're gonna have Instagram story about dumpster and be like a month outdoor teak one of its kind. We're going to be lifting trash, it's organic, blah, blah such bitch. But so I love boutique, fitness, I am a little anti berries. Because there's not a lot of form correction. There has freaked me out a lot of people hurting themselves. But I do have this kind of theory that Ali'i like boutique hit workouts. And so the first thing is like they're a little bit expensive. So this layer of access. There's also commitment you have ritual habitual people that go in they have their trainers. They have the class. I'm totally mentally. Wired that way. So I love that. I think a lot of them are actually style and substance, which is the best thing like rumble has a beautiful aesthetic soul cycle has an aesthetic. But it also comes with like proven caloric results really know that you're getting a workout orange Siri role. That's not really George here even set aside bar, but yeah, you can visit scoreboard. The last thing is that any of them that have like a cultivated aesthetic. There's a layer of distraction. So it's not so much about the workout. It's the dimmed lights music. It's the trainers the encouraged, but it's the community. So for anybody who doesn't like have a lot of individual training success at a global. Jim. I think hit workouts are absolutely incredible for them. And I think that there are so many flavors of them. Now, you can find whether it's the tone house, or the, you know, whatever other program you wanna use like when you have a little kid that needs to eat medicine. So you put the medicine in ice cream until they don't realize that there. Getting him. But they really are these workouts? Like, I'm having fun listening to music of friends this lightings flattering in the note. I just burn five hundred calories. Listen, I guess ice cream of hit classes for a few reasons, especially Barry's Isla, berries, as an athlete as someone who's worked out forever and ever done the sports. Isla berries, the red lights make everyone look amazing. Your sweaty hill off. Like, I just love that. And I think that you can add this another point to your list. Brooks is it's a kind of it feeds the ego all of these things kinda do right access in commitment style and substance it feeds ego that I deserve. This. I deserve to be working out in something like this because I'm doing really good for myself. I think the question that when people kinda put down not fitness is like, we don't need all that. We need strip it down put it back in a garage. You don't need all that in, you know, at shirt, some people don't need that. But some people need that distraction back to your point that I need to put this medicine working out. Right. The best medicine in this ice cream. That is a spin class loud music disco ball. So that I can feel good about doing it. Now, love Cigane. Hello. I think the only thing about berries that freaks me out and soul cycle are the headsets. I think which a headset on it's really just you're not the same person when you have a headset on you haven't seen all Madonna concert yet. Okay. So the kingdom go back to our friend. Vincent loose gate. Again, they want to talk about are coming out stories. So we kind of touched on a little bit in are very very for CEPA soda about feeling other. But I think our actual stories are a little different. So I feel go on for a while. So we're gonna do as Eamonn we have sixty seconds on the clock teller coming out stories on ago. I may just stretch a little bit will you're on. Will you're on deck. I'm gonna go last in all. Hugh, timing cues. Okay. Okay. Three to what says, you know, I've been gave for my entire entire entire entire life. But my very first real experience with a woman having feelings was with this crawl into Kelsey. I was obsessed with her. But it was definitely unrequited. Nothing really happened between us that was very emotionally attached to her. And I remember my mom took me up for breakfast one morning. And she asked me if I was dating Kelsey. I said no not dating her, but his feelings for her in. She was okay with it in. I would say that was kind of the first time we breached that conversation. I'm relieving feeling really good in feeling. Okay. That I had told high felt about Kelsey and through some of this that happened after that. But I was that was the first poignant moment where I discussed my. Feelings for another woman. My momma. Okay. We'll oh great. So I came out when I was fifteen it was the almost the summer. I feel like it was spring break. I was asked by my mom if I was gay. There was a kid. Yeah. Well, they got kicked out of his house that I was friends with and I was kind of telling her about it. And she's like, oh because he's gay and his parents own accepted him in. She's like, oh, are you gay? And I said, yes. And she screamed and hung up on me on the phone. In then. I went to basically exodus, which if any does gay conversion therapy at a church in Arlington, Texas, and that clearly didn't work but ten. Yeah. So my coming out wasn't as a sweet. Oh my gosh. Later, we should Tellier. All right. My time. Go, okay. So I came out when I was like eighteen years old. And I told my sister in that I might stir I told my dad in the three of us told my mom because she was going to be artist to take it at the time. She was an ex marathon runner she had nerve damage in her foot. She started power walking in. So I wrote her letter because I knew she wouldn't let me actually tell her because if I started telling her should know, you're not in. So I wrote her letter were all sitting around the kitchen table, she starts crying. I'm like mom. You know, you talk about it. You wanna go for a walk, and she looks up and she says while cannot walk in a way, you have turned Malaita to rubber. Yes. I'll never forget it hurt me. So went to the time. But it is so funny dramatic now. And I think it's like such a good story. I can tell it. I only seconds. I can you tell it better. But it was so so solid and doesn't twenty story. But done we did it did it somewhere to unpack that. We'll have like a full of coming out or something like that. But like I hurried is really high. Battle of wine for that one. Yeah. I think this was really fun at oh my gosh. I thought it said t- of J like the jaw. Him Jimmy Twenty-three his jaw wants to hear about our sports heroes in why? So I have a couple of sports heroes across athletics. Mike crosses or its hero is Sam dancer who I love whose is of. I love him. So he's so curious girlfriend or whites or on my love her of. But anyway, so cross it hero Sam dancer, popular, sports hero. Serena Williams, same body type in my favorite current athletes are grant Williams in Admiral Scofield from the men's basketball team for the university of Tennessee because they have in their press conferences such personality in point of view, like not only have taken like a twentieth place team to like number two almost single handedly double handedly forehands for. But anyway, they also just like our incredible spokespeople for the sport in for the school. And I know that they will become like the next state Manning's of advertising, they'll be on all these commercials because they're just super charming guys. Iran, Admiral Scofield as Benedict calmer. It's it's it's not your typical. Yeah. I love it. Question that may think he sounds like someone that would be in. The death star added that Admiral to the list of baby names for when I have. So I have some like old fashioned hero old-fashioned is like from my history when I would look up to sports heroes for some reason, I feel like Serena Williams is she's just like my buddy, we're just friends on the same level. So she might hero. Because I think we would be really great friends if she ever met me, but thrown it back like Emmitt Smith and Troy Aikman where my all time favorite football players ever ever ever growing up baseball player Nolan. Ryan a pitcher for the Rangers a million years ago when I was growing up track star Michael Johnson who was in the Olympics in sprints foreign meter in tuner meter, I think when I was growing up having these amazing stars of sport really taught me a lot about being committed to something being committed to sport in overcoming different things in their lives to be where they are. So I kind of look up to them still as a hero or heroes minus lady. Got out because no-one can jump off the stadium at a Super Bowl all anchor. Real athleticism for opening up to that. I'm going to go with Adam Levine's. Just kidding, absolutely. Horrible. All right last listener quasi uh. So finally, we have a Lou gravity's, and they wanna hear about outlawed and athletes hooking up. Spout chick. Well, personally, I try not to shit eat. But. Hate that expression so much, but it's true though. But I've seen negative. Do you would you ever do that you can't shoot Ringling eat, but you can eat where you shifts. And practicing. So I mean, I definitely looked. But, but I don't kiss and tell on saying any names, but we have been a part of many one night or one day or afternoon hours. And if you relationships have spawned from people beating outlawed, so you know, we're just helping the people time of my life will. That's baby Admiral was conceived. Well, we wanted to just pause for a minute in Fank, you listeners for all of your feedback. We've gotten huge engagement we've grown from you know, fifty followers and hundred dollars to more than three thousand listens than we usually get up to nine thousand interactions a week with you guys. So really really incredible engagement in. It will only get better. If you wanna hear your name on the podcast radio. Give us a shout anytime out past send us Lord. Dell. A question of queering of two outcasts of your sore podcasts. We also have Email address. All vote information is in our bio on Instagram. We through not using Instagram. We don't want you near my seats have a. Empty anyway. So as I was mentioning absolute obsessed with our fans, but the only thing that we prefer to you is this next video. So if you haven't seen this there's this show called your face sounds familiar in. It's like sounds familiar kin role. Yes. So this is like some light holiday Uson TV show. And there's a kids version basically is a two part competition where the first part is like a makeover to make you look like the celebrities you're singing as in the second part isn't actual singing competition. So there's this video where he's like seven year old kids from Asia are dressed like the BG's. They look absolutely shocking shocking to see especially one of the hairline a hairline hurling. Anyway. So we're gonna play a little clip of this. But then I also want to give you all of the YouTube in that you can do because they were really really really. Successful on the show, and they have more than seven million followers. All right. So we're going to hit play now. So much. This. They're still though this so good. But the most important thing that you can do if you're listening. We're going to have both of these in the show notes. So that was too much having by the BG's, but nothing absolutely nothing in the actual history of entertainment is better than the TNT, boys. Do bang bang by Arianna Guerande, Jessie, j Nikki Manashe they get into full beat full drag make up these three little boys. Like if I could done this as a child by entire life chain. I am blown away by their confidence. Where so you see the guy that's making it is. And his makeup. What the dad's really quick because washing them their faces. Having genuine excitement about seeing their three sons dressed in drag singing, pop queens music. I feel like you would never see that here. That's amazing. It also those kids are so talented holy shit. It makes me want to kill them. Serve you from which I love it so much. I'm so jealous. That's like what I did in my head as a child. Oh, that's that's the dream as a dream. Now. When I'm when I'm like saying in the kitchen, that's how I think that I look. Not actually though I like like, Molly, Shannon. Superstar making out with the tree. As more my speed. All right. I was going to finish up. Would you rather? And we're gonna use one of our listener questions. This is a favorite from nobody here. Nobody here asked if we'd rather fight a hundred duck sized horses or one or five stuck Brooks. So Josh actually asked me this question person in that. He was like, I know that you are going to pick the horse sites, doc, which I would I totally would why cannot be bothered with one hundred little horses. I felt it's irritating. I wanna get it over with. Also, I would also say one horse size duck 'cause I would feel less bad about killing or fighting one duck as I would feel really bad about hurting hundred little horses, cure, vegan answer. I said beat them up. Like. I know, but I. Here's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna pick a hundred duck size horses. Here's gonna do. I'm gonna come up to them. I'm gonna see listen, I have tuned for you. I pull up a harmonica. I cert- playing a tune they follow in sync. We do a parade down Fifth Avenue. Everyone comes out of their offices start washing. People are hanging out of their office windows to cheer us on. I'm leaning parade of a hundred horse duck size forces like the pied piper. We get to Times Square. We do a dance routine in the we're all friends. No one has to get hurt. We're group number. We offer a record deal. Everything's five. If it our ride my horse is duck in right inflow, right? Just to fly. Go one up. Sorry. We think again everybody over listeners, especially the ones who take time to write in. We really really really really low hearing from you. There were so many questions that you submitted. We didn't really get to Malta. Today in this because they fit so well with some coming out and says we're gonna record. So keep listening keep writing in receiving those questions for a little bit later. Please please please remember to rate in review us wherever you're listening from it really helps us reach more people. So they can pretty much visually dominate the world. Just hold on. That. The plan pinky. So that's it for this episode of outcast. Remember to subscribe and follow us at outcasts underscore podcasts on Instagram since an Email at podcast at I'm out dot org. And while you're at it. We would live a little donation over at the foundation at the F D N. You can also donate at WWW dot IN out dot org slash donate super simple setup over there. Any dollar amount? We will take to help us continue this podcast and continue the work foundation.

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Buzzy Cohen | The Learning Strategies of a Jeopardy Champion

The Unmistakable Creative Podcast

52:55 min | 1 year ago

Buzzy Cohen | The Learning Strategies of a Jeopardy Champion

"I'd been on a really bad first date with a girl that had had a big crush on in my friend's sister was like you need to go on fifty first dates in the next two years, which is you know mathematically like. Every two weeks and she was like dating is a skill. So even if you're a great person, if you're not gonNA dating can't show people what a great person you are and I think that that analogy is basically a lot of what we experience like Oh man I I know my product I know I'm the best service person I know my best friend and I'm so. Happy for him and yet I'm unable to communicate that because we're not preparing correctly and were were stumbling on all of these real and imagined challenges because we didn't think that those challenges were going to be there and so what I'm really focused on is like how do you either eliminate those challenges which I would say is pretty hard or actually prepare with them in mind. I'm Srini row, and this is the unmistakable creative podcast where you get a window into the stories and insights of the most innovative and creative minds who started movements built, driving businesses, written, bestselling books and created insanely interesting art for more check out our five hundred episode archive unmistakable creative Dot Com. Now, is the time to act on change I'm live on Hutchinson and in this new podcast, talking to leaders from companies across food finance technology, and more to learn about the triumphs and challenges of inspiring company-wide commitment to inclusion. You won't want to miss these incredible conversations with people who are leading the charge to create sustainable change for inclusion in their companies and within the communities they serve subscribed to time to act for free and apple podcasts or wherever you listen. There's more to explore at homedepot dot com from furniture home decor to betting shop online and save ten percent with the code unmistakable ten plus get free delivery on select items forty five dollars or more visit homedepot dot com for more INFO. buzzy. Welcome to the unmistakable creative thanks so much for taking the time to join us. Thanks for having me. I'm really excited about this. Yeah. It is my pleasure to have you here. So I actually found out by wave your publicist about your work in the fact that you were a jeopardy champion and given that I have a little sister who is absolutely obsessed. Forces my entire family to watch it every night, and in fact, has her own jeopardy hat no-brainer beyond that I want to have this conversation but that obviously helped quite a bit. Before we get into all that I wanNA start asking what social group reopen part of in high school and what impacted that end up having on the choices that you've made with your life on your. You. Know I was apart I went to a pretty small school I ended up. Switching from public to a private prep school when I was in eighth grade and Mike Class size was pretty small I think we're about a hundred people and in particular my year was very like we were all kind of friendly. So I was sort of you know a classic floater like I had friends who were you know athletes? I mean almost everyone played a sport you know if he if you weren't playing football or basketball or something like that. Fencing around the swim team or something like that. So I was definitely more of more of a floater between groups and I really liked. I think they're probably people at my school who who felt like they were more It was harder for them to move in certain circles and I. was sort of enabler of that movement The other thing is I was definitely I went to a very. preppy school where everybody was going to become you know bankers, lawyers, doctors that kind of thing I was the kid. I was a musician and. my junior senior year they liked redid the whole art swing and like me and two friends who were the only really. Are Truly already people at this school. Basically had like a college level facility to ourselves. So I definitely like had a lot of friends who were. More musical or visual arts and stuff like that. I would say that if I had like a core crews definitely kind of more of the the already out there people. Being. In part of that group, I wonder you know, did you come from sort of like a typical family who would be from that environment especially when you're surrounded by kids were soon to be bankers, doctors, lawyers, whatever it is sort of standard. You know this is a good life narrative. What kind of advice did you get from parents teachers peers about potential career paths? Yet. I think I. Think about their I believe it was born haste wrote this essay called the Argentine writer in tradition and he talks about how these groups that are kind of have access to the cannon but aren't in the Canon. Have this very. Powerful point of view and he talks about Jewish writers, talks to Jewish writers and artists Irish writers artists in his moment. He felt like it was the South American writers. He was writing on the cusp of the South American boom and I felt like I feel like in a lot of ways I had that experience in a lot of ways like I said I went to this really preppy. In a very waspy prep school when I was a Jewish kid, all's my friends parents were you know power powerful people or accomplished professionals not that my dad was accomplished but he owned a clothing store he owned a is a retailer third generation retailer and. So you know we used to joke that all my friends would come over my house on tat stay because all of their parents would be miserable because of you know they were making all this money and so I was sort of You know I I was moving in this world and I could you know but I wasn't really. Totally, a part of it and I think that that gave me. The ability to kind of like internalize in observed things without necessarily totally buying into them and I don't know what any of this has to do with with what I'm doing now but I definitely think that that has. Shaped a lot of WHO I am. Yeah. When you? Get to be surrounded by money and wealth at that level and sort of status and power But I wonder how that informed your own perspectives on the role that money and wealth plays. In your adult life because you know I think that as a culture Like wealth is really kind of the Holy Grail of success based on what you see in the media based on what we're in the headlines I mean like you know my joke is that every self help can be put into one of three categories make more money. You Know Improve Your relationships or lose some weight. You know I think one of our guest get said you know get paid later made is kind of the. More. You know when you have grown up around this environment how that informs your. On the role of money in wealth. I just saw how. How much of a just really wealth and money and all that is just a point of view in a lot of ways I. think that it's easy to say that when you have money, right like my grandma used to have a saying like richer poor, it's good to have money. which I think is very true and I think like I don't want to come off as to privileged but I think there were a lot of people who Who I think we've seen it in our society, right? Like you know the Bernie madoff swear you know it's like the emperor has no clothes and I think that there is a difference between you know people who? Create a life for themselves and people who have amassed the trappings of wealth and I I've really focused on like. You know in my personal life what kind of life? I WanNa have and and. Probably have turned down opportunities That would have made me a lot of money because it wasn't really. for me it was more about what kind of life I WANNA have as opposed to how much money I WANNA have. Money allows you to have a certain amount of life but. It it also like sometimes those opportunities don't support that life in another way when I was really Just at school I used to do a lot of Buddhist meditation when I was like high school and College, and after college in rate when I graduated college I went on a Buddhist Meditation Retreat and I. Ask The teacher I was like right out of school I. Didn't have a job yet and I was like trying to figure out. What to do? ask the teacher like just for advice and he said something that I still think about and when people ask me for career advice, this is usually the first thing I say, which is that security is easy to find, but freedom is hard to find. and I I try to make my choices. around that and I think. Always for a lot of people and with good reason, money is security. And you can you know for a lot of people. You can find money there's ways to make money there's ways to. make more money. There's way. Let's say legally and illegally there are ways to Ford capital. Whatever whatever level feels like it gives you security. But Freedom Real freedom is is actually quite rare and I think that people often run to security and and we. And we kind of sacrifice our freedom. Or personal free whatever that means whatever level is freedom we're giving up and so. That's kind of mind Northstar in terms of the wealth. Conversation. It's funny to hear you talk about freedom had Scott Galloway here who is a professor at Nyu has become somewhat wealthy and he was telling me he said, you know like the do two sets of people I. Think he like you. A couple who lived somewhere in the south who basically aren't spending all of their money. They. Make fifty thousand dollars a year. But they've got plenty in savings whereas he said you know he knew a friend WHO's an investment banker who after three divorces and kids in private school he spends everything that he makes and he said believe it or not those other people are actually better off because they're actually free and think that we kind of wealth with freedom not realizing that wait a minute sometimes your wealth comes at the cost of your freedom because. I think that it's easy for us to see on the surface. You know what the lives of these people look like. As they're portrayed remedios, we've got Justin Muskie Elon, Musk ex-wife here you know one of the things that she said to me, she said I don't think people truly understand the amount of work that goes into these accomplishments. They often come at the cost of everything in your life. Yeah Yeah totally and I think that You know I remember. Yeah totally. You know you see these people drive in driving cars or living in houses in it's like. You've got to feed that beast every month he got a feed that every month and so yeah, I think you know. Like you said that. that. That becomes you know. A real can become like a real shackle, a lot of people. and Austin Kinda blows up and that's when people have a reckoning and I'm you know knock on Wood I'm lucky that I. Very early on was able to. Learn that you know that wasn't necessarily the approach to take now. Boy. It's one thing I've always wondered and part of me wonders if maybe we're not of an age to really contemplate such deep question. But why don't we talk you know when we're younger and school about not I think we substitute accomplishment for meaning thinking that meeting is what will find accomplishment but we don't ever really talk about you know what kind of life do you WanNa live you know what you really want that maybe it's because you know like I I also. Think, it's interesting that you're making. We make high school kids decide what they want to do with the rest of their lives when they have such limited data points but you know having been in the school that you were in the environment you're in why do you think that? Why don't you think that we have these conversations earlier on an education and it takes you know the been life crisis for somebody to have the WAKEUP, call her the reckoning they were talking about. Well, I think. CR- guests and I really don't know that much definitely speaking out of my depth here. But just say that I think everything hear everything in our society is basically in one way or another like. A business right and so if you're a school your job, if your high school, your job is to you know get kids into college or get them into jobs or whatever, and likewise if you're a college. You know the what you're trading is you know a a big investment, but the idea is that they'll be a return on that investment. So all of that stuff is is getting people focused to very you know. The kinds of accomplishments seize your were in the kinds of. Achievement that is measurable. Right so you know a university can say our our graduates you know make this much money. You know average this much money ten years at a school and a high school can say we get this percentage of our students into college or we graduate this many of our. Freshmen have this graduation rate Things like fulfillment and things like You know meaning are are harder to. Ties. US. Harder to manage If you look at it as like a management problem right. So if you're like a principal and you're trying to show that your school is doing a good job, it's harder to say, yeah, we. Are. Really. Like. Carrying about their world who they are and they WANNA be, it's easier to say like we test scores up in fewer kids are dropping out. So you focus on that kind of stuff because in it, you can sell that to your quote unquote investors whether that's people you want to come into your school alums you're trying to get to reinvest for if you're public organization, you know getting the funding that you need from you know the public. Want better sleep. It's time to toss out your memory foam and upgrade to an aura the organic luxury hybrid mattress with Sri, Lankan. Latex. Wrapped around Coil Springs to provide contour and touch of bounce for supportive sleep throughout the night the best pot, a three, hundred, sixty, five, night trial. 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You need and the best part shop today and you'll get free and flexible delivery with easy returns plus for a limited time, you can save even more on the styles you love when you use the code unmistakable ten at checkout find exactly what you're looking for and more at homedepot dot com slash decor valid on select items online only free delivery on select items, forty five dollars or more visit homedepot dot com for more information. So. copen nineteen has made all life super complicated it's changed so much from the way that we live to the way that we work, and there's so much information coming at us every day between news briefings and online articles. If you have a family like mindful of doctors, even families zoom chats. So figuring out what you're actually supposed to do in the workplace can be really overwhelming. Well, if you WANNA get safely back to work during covid nineteen, there's an APP for that. 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So well, read Ab my sister's shockingly knows him saying amounts of answers going to I think her dream is to actually go on jeopardy but. Then she just texted me her questions she wanted to ask you but. That we which will get to. But how in the what led you down this path at what is actually involved in the preparation for this? Like are you reading hundreds of books like how do you catalog this amount of knowledge? Yes so I grew up and I always had like a very good. but I also really liked When I started reading, I liked going for things like biographies and stuff like that. So I had an interest in Facts and when I was old on road trips, my Parents used to give me these like. Previous cards which I think they still make, and it's like you know you flip through them and and I was always really into that and I. Started watching jeopardy when I was probably like in middle school high school on at seven o'clock where I grew up in, I would watch it and then the simpsons rerun at seven thirty on on the other channel and it was just like part of my day and and and I really really loved it and then in high school I, found out that there is this thing called Quiz Bowl. And I started doing that and I was. Doing it but in my Irreverent way. So I, you know people, there are people who are very serious his bowlers and I've met some of them and they scare the crap out of me. But I was sort of like I was sorta like, Hey, this is like another way for me to goof off and have fun and. You know I did okay. I wasn't great but I was pretty good at it when I got to college. Quiz bowl scene was very serious. So I I kinda ducked out of it but I always liked jeopardy and I just I don't know you know Ken Jennings probably has the best statement on this and I quote him in the Audio. Book that just which is people who are good at jeopardy are interested in everything because it's easy to remember things that you're interested in. and so you know I have like twelve wikipedia tabs up at all times you know on like in those wormhole when Wikipedia came out I was in college man I just lost like days of my life like reading about. Everything and it's funny because it started when I was a kid I was I'd never slept as a kid like my mom bemoans that like. And and my grandfather had gotten me the World Book Encyclopedia and my mom would wake up come to get me up for school in the morning and there'd be a stack of Encyclopedia's next to next to the bed and it was because I was basically doing what we all do now, which is clicking through the links on wikipedia. So I'd be reading one article and I'd be like Oh. What's this other thing you have to go get another encyclopedia and starts flipping through it So now it's a lot easier to do that, but I used to so I've always kind of just been curious about stuff's. In preparing for jeopardy though there's kind of like a There is a method that is. Kind of the received wisdom and then. I found that to be insufficient when I. After I had been on, knew that was going to be invited back. So this book kind of came out of what I learned from trying to make a better preparation process for jeopardy and then applying that to other things, and then I started talking to people that are smart about it. So the way most people prepare for jeopardy as they watched the show a lot and they have a ballpoint pen and they practice buzzing in and answering and all that stuff The reason for that is jeopardy has a really particular way that it asks questions, right? So. oftentimes, a clue will be phrased in a certain way or they'll be a couple of clues within each clue and so you get used to the way that jeopardy asked step and the kind of material that jeopardy likes to ask about which is not necessarily. The same material that you'll hear at a pub quiz or in quiz bowl or any of these other sort of Trivia. formats it's it's got like kind of its own. genre of. Of questions or material so you get used to that stuff. and you get used to the Alex res, which is an important part of the timing aspect. what I found wanting in that method is that. A. Sure. It gives you a lot of help for the content but what it fails to take into account is the context and the context of being on jeopardy is completely different than the context of watching jeopardy. So watching jeopardy something you do depending on your market at the end of the day sitting on your couch you know maybe relaxed after dinner ray before dinner whatever it is. and you watch lunch show and then you go and move on with your life taping jeopardy happens you have to be at the studio at seven thirty in the morning. Dressed ready to go and you take five shows in a day assuming that you do well. And they're back to back. So you tape. Three shows in the morning starting after the briefings in the makeup and everything taped three shows before lunch and in two shows in the afternoon. That's an entirely different situation. You're also standing up your under lights. There's two other people right next to you. You know it's not like you're I joke like it's easy to get all the answers right when you're playing against the dog, it's a lot harder to get the answers right when they're two people up there who are really smart and so. And you and your stress, your way more stress your brain chemistry is different all that stuff and so what I did was I said, how can I replicate much as possible that experience of actually being on the show. And that kind of led me down this path of like. What else are we kind of? Preparing, poorly for or not preparing at all for and that's Kinda how I got ear. A. All right. So all get to my sister's weird questions second but. I WanNa talk about this idea of curiosity and you mentioned that people who are GonNa jeopardy interested in everything and make every single guess choice. You're understandable creative based on curiosity that is literally the number one filter by which choose like that's the first question I asked myself when I see a pitch come in and curious about this. But one thing I've also seen is that people tend to become a lot more narrow minded as they become adults about subjects that they're willing to explore. Curiosities that they're willing to indulge in and I. I. Wonder You know one why you think that is an two more importantly how start to get back that sense of curiosity that they everybody seems to have as a child. I think well, I think I'm probably a little bit in exception to that because since I since my kind of jeopardy experience I've taken on like. decided to injure a weightlifting, a national powerlifting competition, and then after I actually won my weight classes dead lift I decided to take on tap dancing, which I've no dance experience. And so I guess the question could be, why am I willing to do that stuff when? Few other people are. I think part of it is. like we kinda back to that like security freedom. Question right like we tend to like the familiar or things where we feel like we know what we're talking about like it's very, very uncomfortable to feel. like a novice. and one of the people that I interview for this book is a glass blower named Alexander Rosenberg who was on that TV show blown away and he teaches glassblowing and he said that one of the things that he does is he like learn something totally as a beginner, every two years partially to help him as a teacher to remind him what it feels like to. Absolutely. have no idea how to do something and how challenging that can be I think. You know the older we get the more we want to avoid that and I think also as more of our lives are our performances for our peers and for the world. We we. WanNa do things that we are really good at we WANNA to We know we don't want to fail or fail publicly or be embarrassed and I think that you know curiosity can sometimes be a road to some failure and embarrassment in that. It's a very understandable in natural inclination to want to avoid that but I think we do ourselves a disservice you know. Let's go deeper into these two concepts of memory in preparation You don't funny 'cause. I've done a lot of research on memory lately as you know as I was telling you before here I tend to read tons of books not just the people I interview but books that I'm personally interested in and I've always found that I have an uncanny memory for absolutely useless information that will never serve me any practical purpose. One of my roommates jokes that I know his own memories better than he knows the. Probably something and then I'll say, no, that's actually what happened. He's like that's my memory and you actually have the Why is that? So only about like you know one, how do you do that? But the what I think is is even more interesting is this whole idea of preparation you seem to have a framework for preparation that doesn't just apply to jeopardy that we could apply to other things and I'm GonNa, ask you to frame it and the most ridiculous practical example for me personally so. My roommates and I play NBA Two K. Twenty every day religiously, which is ridiculous because I don't even watch sports and I could care less what's going on in the actual NBA and right now nothing. But he's had this reign of terror that is continued ever since we've lived in this apartment or in the House that we live and So if we were to apply preparation framework, so I can finally start kicking his ass again how would you guide me through that which I realize absolutely ridiculous example but I figured. I might as well you know yeah. Sure one. All right So as I said, the first I would think about is like the contexts like. Day that you guys tend to play NBA Two K. Twenty. Think about like how is that your most alert time Don. Definitely. Not so the so then what I would start to do is there's a method that I've used, which is kind of. Dragging your alertness into that time of day. So for instance, if there's something that you tend to do at like an alert time of day so for I'll give you my example I used to do crosswords every morning when and then I started having to do these When? James Cole Tower was on jeopardy I was asked to do all these interviews and they were always at like eleven o'clock on CNN right because it was like after all the real news happen they wanted to talk about this crazy thing happening on jeopardy I was really tired so for like the during the time that he was on the show I, started doing my crossword puzzles at like ten or eleven at night to bring my like alertness to that time of day. So what I would start doing is First of all find like whether it's reading or doing what checking your emails. There's something that you tend to do when you're alert done trying to do some of that at the time when you are normally GonNa play NBA eight twenty. First thing. Thing is I would do is start to breakdown. different aspects of what the game NBA Two K. Twenty is asking you to do. So if there are certain things that you aren't good at if there are ways to like essentially, drills are the drills. What you're doing is you're just scrimmaging right every night and you're just getting beat and you're not actually building individuals skills. You're just kind of like trying to do everything all at once. So if there are ways for you to find a way to drill and it might be derailing under the game. There you go. So spend some time drilling. I think people like people tend to overemphasize one of the other like. They tend to drill a lot and not scrimmage, and then when they're in like a real world game situation, they don't. they can't put it together or they scrimmage a lot and they're not drilling. So they're not actually like building they're not doing any skill building. They're kind of like going through it Those are kind of that's a balancing act to figure out and I mean. Just. Trying to think I because I'm not a big video gamer some. Video game stuff. But I think I would start I mean that's like a great place to start out also try to figure out like I would maybe get on Youtube. Watch like rate in there. People I know people poster our twitter whatever like. People were really good. What are they doing? You know what are they doing? That's different than what we're doing your or whatever. I did a lot of that like I think. If, you look at like think of yourself as an athlete, think of yourself as an elite athlete I thought to myself when I was getting ready to the jeopardy tournament of champions like I was in Olympic athlete and I approached my abrasion like that, and I think why not like why not think I am training for the Olympics of NBA Two K. Twenty and you go to the locker room and you watch the state you wash the ABC. Oh, on that was interesting like how do I do that and then you try to figure that out. And really be systematic about it. The other thing I would think about is ritual. When you're doing the practice stuff when you're playing, what how can you build rituals that allow you to reset when something bad happens or just like get? Make something become muscle memory. pitchers do this all the time right we see. I mean I'm not a sports guy either really but. The whole, the way that pitchers like setup. In baseball it like. It all. It's a big kind of like anxiety management and stress management thing but it also allows everything that comes after to be Kinda automatic golf is another thing where like the way that the Golfer sets up in front of the ball or a tennis player the number of times they bounce the ball before they served it's all kind of like. Queuing up automatic behaviors, right. So as opposed to being. In the middle of the NBA Two K. Twenty play and trying to figure it out. You're like okay. Like I'm GonNa do my like. Deep. Breath in tap my foot depress out and inbound the ball and like everything that happens after that is automatic. Yeah. Well, it's funny. You say that. The the Games where my roommate has big leads and I ended up beating him are the ones where he starts to lose his composure like that is his downfall. He's much better that right now. But that I know for sure is as downfall is that I can keep my composure even with like an eighteen point deficit and come back from it because I've done whereas you know when he just starts getting irate, it's kind of Larry both of us have our. What are the ways to needle him to I talked to? In small ways. You know you're why? Not? Like it's it's a game to play the game. You know what do they play the play the player not the ball supported the player. Should. Pretty. NBA floor from what I hear. Yeah, totally. So it's like it's even if he's up by a huge lead if you do some like. Buffet move and it just makes him look like a fool. Rub It in. I don't know I'm I'm I'm. I'm I'm definitely know part of me is like, are there any cheat codes? I'm just like what I'm here I'm here to light is winning is what it's about. You figure it out. What is it? A. Little honey on his control. From. You know like. I mean you want to win outright right? We don't want to win outright. So I'm Kinda joking but I'm also my like. Beyond just what's happening in the game as well? What's happening within what's happening with you I think you know that's kind of part of what what goes on in the context stuff. I, think, part of my success was just like I. I being a musician I think really helped me learn how to keep my composure on stage how to work through will making mistakes in performance situation and so like I could kinda like. I was very kind of nonchalant apparently nonchalant. In a situation that was extremely stressful for other people and and in a way my nonchalance made them more stress because it made it made it kind of heightened their own self consciousness about how stress they were. So for the sake of my sister I have to ask you her question. Yeah. Pretty, and then will go onto a more practical example because I think anybody listening to you about it. With my MBA getting educate tips will help all. Let me report back to you because we literally we play tournament every week where we pick three teams and you know he's basically held the championship for five straight tournaments when I'm really annoyed. NYPD. Yeah. My other roommate doesn't give a shit anymore. He's like you guys are idiots but. But anyway. I figured given your background was like this one go to. I mean I'm like I'm a nut for this stuff. So I'm excited to ear what works and what doesn't it. So my sister wanted to know how you decided what anecdotes you would share after the first commercial break, and then she said some people say the strangest things and I'll always wonder what's the one thing that you would choose to share about yourself on national TV Yes. So the way it works as they once. Once you get cast to be on the show they send you a free long questionnaire and it starts out with like what are five interesting things about you which? you know is supposed to be. That's basically what the prompt for the whole thing is but people aren't very good at self assessing. So they start asking other questions like how did you meet your spouse or what was the time you met a celebrity or you know was there something that happened with your friends and Co? You know they have all these prompts basically to try to essentially get to what are the five actually interesting stories about you. and. The contestant team basically takes these ten some odd pages and then. Puts it into a FLASH CARD THAT THEY HAND ALEX back when you're in the green room, they go through and they kind of say. Of these are these five things. Okay for us to talk about. So He kinda double checked make sure that you're comfortable with it. Now in that they say I think that you know the contestant team says I think this is the most interesting one of these five so I'll highlight it but you should know that. He Alex Trebek's decides what he's GonNa talk about. So during that commercial break. He's looking through the cards and he'll see what they. They kind of highlighted, but he he decides on the fly. So a lot of times you'll kind of see people be surprise with what he asks and that's because they thought he was going to ask something and he saw something else that caught his eye. So it's really like you kind of provide all this biographical detail and then Alex Trebek's decides what he thinks is going to be interesting or what he wants to know about. What's funny is like I was on my initial time on the show I I was on ten shows and So they ran out of information. So one of the things that is also an important thing to remember about the context of jeopardy is that. In addition to having to. Win. A very competitive game under lights standing up. You then have about ten minutes to go back stage change outfits for the next day. So you're not wearing the same clothes, two days in a row So for like a little bit of TV magic and then eventually after one a couple of days while I was changing and while I was being told to change. Faster because they you know they've got a schedule to keep. They were also trying to get more anecdotes and stories out of me while I was changing to add to these cards because they had five and after you know a couple of days, they wanna make sure he's got enough to choose from they don't want to just tell him to ask about something. So I imagine if you're you know when you were Ken Jennings or James Cole Tower or whatever that is even harder to do when you're winning forty seventy games So let. Let's take the preparation framework and apply something a bit more useful than NBA. Two. K.. Shirt. I think creative skill of some sort. We're earlier talking about the fact that part of what prevents people's curiosity as they're afraid of being bad at something and I, I think that's pretty common. But let's actually being a musician. One thing I realized that I'd always wanted to learn how to play the guitar, which is a far more versatile instrument than a Tuba and yet my frustration with the whole experience was that you know like I was an all state. Player was really good and I hate the fact that I'm not able to learn this as quickly as I was the to like I went from being. In seventh grade really average to missing all stay by one charge a freshman in Texas, and then you know. But now when I picked up a guitar, I'm like God, this is slow and and you know annoying. So let's say we take to take this preparation framework to something like that. How would we do it? Yeah. What what I would say is There is really really good centuries of pedagogy for things like music. sports and I'm not necessarily an expert in those pedagogy is but what I think is interesting is kind of finding ways to translate those pedagogy to the sort of everyday things and that's of where my focus is. So if you read a lot of these performance books by folks that we talked about like Anders Eriksson, they love you know athletes, violinists all his stuff because there's you know centuries and centuries of people figuring out the best way to learn this stuff there's competing methods for guitar. Likewise, there's all that stuff what I'm really focused on is. You know you've got to give a speech at your friend's wedding. And you. WanNa give a good speech. How do you prepare for that? There isn't centuries of pedagogy for preparation of that. There isn't the you know the way that there is a ten different guitar primers and Tutorials on Youtube. Or. You want to give a presentation for work or you're trying to raise money for your company or make a sale or whatever it is. There isn't that same A history of of method and process, and so really what I'm focused on not to like not answer your question. But when I'm focused on is how do we in these kind of everyday experiences be better prepared so that we can actually do our best I think. Most people. Are. Even if things go or let's say if things don't go well, it's not because they didn't have the ability to do it well is that they didn't have the ability to show what they can do. When I was single in New York City, my friend's sister. I. Been on a really bad first date. With, a girl that had had a big crush on and my my friend's sister was like you need to do you need to go on fifty first dates in the next two years which was at, you know mathematically like a date a first date, every two weeks, and she was like dating is a skill Even. If you're a great person if you're knocking at dating can't show people with a great person you are and I think that that analogy is basically a lot of what we experience like Oh man I I know my product, I know I'm the best service person I know my best friend and I'm so happy for him and yet I'm unable to communicate that because I'm not really per we're not preparing correctly and we're we're getting. Were stumbling on all of these. Real, and imagined challenges. Because we didn't think that those challenges were going to be there. and. So what I'm really focused on is like how do you either eliminate those challenges which I would say is pretty hard or actually prepare with them in mind I tell people there are potholes on the road you can either you know try to fill all those potholes or just make sure that your car has as really good shock absorbers and my preparation approach is really about how do you build those shock absorbers in into yourself? So I didn't really answer your question so. That's All I think that that's that's really useful more. So than than necessarily answering who is running. The thing that I've always sort of baffled by these sort of learning frameworks and how each one of them are. Relevant to different people because I mean even when I look at organizational systems when I about how to organize projects and action items and productivity, it's like Oh you can try you know the bullet journal you can try you know this method or this happened, and it's like each one I think Taylor's to certain aspects of a person's personality and I think that that's one thing I appreciate about having. So many different learning frameworks is that I can draw different things reach one like as ridiculous as it sounds to me the most valuable thing that came out of this is the potential to kick my roommate's asset this game again. Totally. Yeah and I think one of the things that I really. Try to emphasize is. that. There isn't I. I'm very skeptical of the. This is the way a school of of personal development because I think everyone's different in every challenge is different things that have worked for me on jeopardy have not worked for me as well in other situations and things that work for me are not necessarily going to work for you and so really what I'm trying to. Encourage people to do is is really experiment with and think about like, okay I need to get ready for this. What what could preparation look like? beyond you know. What I've been, what I was told essentially, what we're told like in high school and college to prepare for like a presentation is what we continue to do for the rest of our lives. Even though we get smarter, we learn all this other stuff and so I gave myself a lot of licensed to be. kind of goofy and like not all this stuff work. But some of the did a one of the things that really helped me get ready for jeopardy was I would bring my flash cards and my study materials to the gym. I would have the trainer quiz me while I was doing very strenuous exercises because I was trying to recreate that stress feeling of being on the show and your mind going. Totally blind and the best way I could figure out how to do that was like hanging from China bar for sixty seconds and I don't know I don't know how athletic you are but I'm not a very athletic person in when I tried to do that stuff i. cannot I, can I don't know if I could spell my name in that situation and so it was like, how do I? How do I access the memory? The of like Trivia part of my brain when I know that information through that kind of like cortisol surge. That's a silly. It's kind of silly way to. Prepare for jeopardy. But it really really helped me and so on. My kind of inviting people like what are some other weird silly things that might actually likes. Really really really help you. You know one of the things I emphasize for people to do. When they have sort of a perform real performance situation public speaking whatever is film themselves because the second you hit record on your phone or whatever that that kind of self consciousness flips on even if it's you know there's audience other than the phone we kind of like all the sudden for whatever reason get really self conscious. So it's like what if you did that but then added another goofy thing like you know you're you know in your underwear and you turn on the phone, your reporting yourself how else can we? How can we make you like self conscious as possible if that's something that you're really challenged by like. You know it's sort of it's sort of. It's it's like the. The like a live virus vaccine. By by CAN. Exposing yourself to that self consciousness. You're essentially taking away some of its ability to. To Affect your performance because. It's not that you're not going to be self conscious on that day but it's like you kinda not you've already figured out. How to deal with it it's familiar I think part of what is so challenging about when the stressful situations is not this not that there's there's stress because a lot of stress hormones actually. Shoot improve, your performance. It's that we're so familiar with that feeling right now you know if you think about like things like. Cortisol. Or whatever I'm not I'm not like a neuroscientist, but all that stuff should like increase your focus help you whatever you know. It's like probably like increases oxygen in your blood and I, have no idea. I'm talking about I asked but you get the idea all that stuff should make you. Perform better, but it doesn't and I think part of it is like you know. It's so such an unfamiliar feeling because most of our lives were not stress were not. So it's like how can you create these these? Preparations situations that that that give you the experience of having to perform in that internal state so that when you are there on the big day, you're like, okay Yep I'm stressed I'm feeling that but I also know how to do it with that going on. Some accents. Yeah. No. Totally this finding dory buying it or. I'M GONNA. Hard. Losing it. This video games so Did. Inconsistency is pissing me off. So now that you've given me. What else he could do? Have a uniform. Uniform that you wear when you play and that you practice in and where it like where it a lot. So it's like. I. One of the things like you know I noticed was when I went on jeopardy they ask you to kind of dress business casual or whatever. But I was wearing a suit and tie and how many people like. Dress up and then when they dress up. There really uncomfortable and how being comfortable and dressed up. UNAV-. Gave me an advantage I started wearing a suit and tie every day and I still do. because a it helped me shift a mindset and also it just made it. So like the perform one obstacle of performance day was on. Think like if you decided, you were going to like take like Pat Riley. Approach and like show up for your tournament like in a suit and tie with your hair slicked back and you could wear it comfortably. It would probably at least distract your your roommate if not intimidate that's. It's funny because I was reading He's funny. He just walked down here to go put some hundred, and so he's going to actually hear this I was reading Stephen Collars book the rise of Superman, and I don't know if you've heard there's a professional skateboarder named Danny Way and he hasn't basically done the craziest shit imaginable. He jumped the Great Wall of China on a skateboard and when they the mega ramp, they called him and they admit measured the entire time the project they were working on it they're like, Hey, man this thing is going to be like ten feet longer bigger than we thought is that to gnarly replies and says nothing to gnarly. I was okay I need to get a t shirt with that but maybe that'll be my NBA two twenty t-shirt. Yes exactly. Exactly. I. Love it how? Cool. Well, this has been fascinating and hilarious insightful. So I have one final question for you Finish all of our interviews at the sequel creative. What do you think it is that makes somebody or something unmistakable. I think. I. Have. Two answers which are two sides of the same coin. I think. Alluding back to where we started. I, think. freedom. It was on that same retreat and we were in Brazil and like this. Shaman. That revisited that like people don't they don't want a witness beauty they want to experience freedom and that great art whether it's like dance or music or visual art is basically about encountering freedom I think that an unmistakable creative really. Embodies that and I think that the other side of that is that. Is that they're really themselves and I think that. freedom is is basically the expression of being holy yourself and to like circle back to kind of. What I'm about these days like when you're really prepared, you can be or you can be more yourself than when you're not when you're not prepared yourself conscious. You're worried you're you try to mimic what you think a good performance looks like if you really are ready to go, you can just be yourself. You can be the most yourself. You could ever be and I think that that is. That is more compelling and more powerful and. More transformative than than almost anything else. Well. Amazing Well I. For taking the time to join US share your story and your insights with our listeners. Will find out more about you at your work the new book and everything else I up to. Yeah. The best thing to do is check out the book still get ready it's on audible it's an audible original and That's that's the best thing you can do to find out more about this or you can see all the dumb stuff I post on twitter. That's the only other. Sucks. The other place find out about me And for everybody listening, we will wrap the show with that. Thank you for listening to this episode of the unmistakable creative podcasts. While you're listening there. Any moments you've found fascinating inspiring instructive. Maybe even heartwarming can you think of anyone a friend or a family member who would appreciate this moment? If so take a second and share today's episode with that one person because good ideas and messages are meant to be shared.

NBA US twitter Ken Jennings China James Cole Tower Hutchinson apple Mike Class Bernie madoff Alex Trebek writer Home Depot Danny Way middle school high school CDC Pat Riley football
Michael Munger on Free Markets

EconTalk

1:10:16 hr | 2 months ago

Michael Munger on Free Markets

"Welcome to econ talk conversations for the curious part of the library of economic liberty. I'm your host. Russ roberts shalom college in jerusalem and stanford university's hoover institution. Go to econ. Talk dot org where you can subscribe comment on this episode by links number information related to today's conversation also find archives with every episode. We've done going back to two thousand and six or email address is male econ. Talk dot org. We'd love to hear from you. Today is july twenty six twenty. Twenty one and my guest is a communist and author. Michael munger he was last here in march talking about desires morality and self interest. This is my thirty ninth appearance on econ talking. What will be. i think. Our eight hundred and first episode more or less so that's almost five percent. Roughly five percent. We could put a decimal point to their for listeners. Entertainment it's a little scary mike. But i've enjoyed every one of them. I know our listeners have to. I want to thank plan. Chronics reporting today's guests with the plan products. Fifty two twenty headset mike. Welcome back to contact. It is great to be back. Our topic for today is unease with free markets. A topic suggested by listener who likes free markets but doesn't like sometimes what comes with them some of the outcomes results and is uneasy being a free market or so. I thought we'd start off by talking about what you mean. If you describe yourself as free market or what is a free market in your view. If i describe myself as a free market person than i am a believer that increases in wealth and prosperity and reductions in poverty. Come about as a result of elaborating division of labor. So when students take mike class. I get them by the end to be able to respond very quickly to the question. What's the argument for. Markets is the perfection of markets. No it is. That division of labor is a way of fostering specialization. now there are many institutions that can foster specialization. There was division of labor in pharaonic egypt. There was a very substantial impact. We see the legacy of that. My name is monger. That is someone who sells stuff there. People call baker and shoemaker cooper so the division of labor was accomplished through guilds and you were kings person you were the rulers person who is in charge of making shoes. You learn how to do this. And this was handed down and that actually resulted in an enormous increase in wealth. The argument for free markets is that you can break out of the small command economy into a system where. I don't need to know the person that i'm buying things from. So i'm a student of douglas. North and his claim was that markets are institutions for reducing the transaction cost of impersonal exchange. Now that all sounds sort of cumbersome the answer is the argument for markets is there is no alternative system that increases the wealth of most people most of the time by more. It's not that markets are perfect. The argument for markets is not the perfection of the price mechanism. it's the imperfection of the world. We don't have enough information to be able to use any other system. There is literally no other system that can elaborate division of labor in the same way but there are a bunch of drawbacks. And we'll talk about some of those but that's the argument for markets is that it is the best most of the time for most of the people and in particular as deirdre mccloskey and other have argued about the great enrichment there is no system that reduces poverty by morning fact. It's not even close. Boy that is the answer. I was expecting some. My script is shot now Really it isn't. I'm i'm gonna but i'm gonna react to that because it's like. How do you spell isla. And if i say my ssi iscsi ppi. That may be how. I spell iowa. What's the listeners. want to know. What is your argument for free markets. I speak on behalf of millions around the world I'm actually going to challenge what you just said to a point. I love what you just said. The first thing. I wanna i i just wanna add an elaborate on it. Just a tich. I did a monologue episode of maybe done five of them. I think in the history of the program where i talked about adam smith david. Ricardo exchange trade specialization and ricardo's great contribution to economic suicide. This understanding that because we are different we can exchange. Even if i'm better at everything they knew or or more likely. You're better at everything than i am. So let's take that example. So let's say mike's better than everything that i am. That's still allows for the possibility of for me to make something useful for you an exchange it at which because you would specialize ended the thing that you do relatively well and that insight which is great for exams and has something to do even with the real world. I think over shadows smith's inside adam smith's insight which is that the division of labor is limited by the extent of the market. Which means that when there are a lot of us to exchange among ourselves. The potential for specialization. That you talk about the liberation of talents to serve those around us is amplified to the point where we get the credible serta living that we currently have. I like to point out. I think i did in that episode. That if you took forty nine of your most talented friends so fifty people you and forty nine. You get to choose them. You can pick the smartest the most handy. Whatever you think is best but on an island. that's lush green and fertile. With incredible natural resources. You will never be very wealthy. Fifty people just cannot specialize enough. There's not enough there not enough brains to interact in that setting to create great wealth. I think that's a profoundly interesting thing that i think most people have never. I never thought of it until I really I learned from james. Buchanan's interpretation of smith so i that's part of what you're saying obviously The product with disagree with is that i even though i think wealth is important wellbeing. Santa living and hungers awful and Destitution is worse than subsistence to the point of starvation is even still worse. Maybe the same thing but they're all bad I don't really think deep down that money is what makes our hearts saying That it gives joy to live. It's better to live to seventy or eighty or ninety With an artificial hip and play play tennis or golf. Or whatever your boat so. I don't think living's irrelevant. It's a lot of wonderful glorious things that come from growth in general material well-being but it's not the only thing we care about the other thing we would care about is what we i think. Would both call human flourishing the opportunity to find your own path in life the opportunity to use your gifts to their highest potential and i think you get free markets allowed that to happen in ways that other systems do not so i would just those. Those are my two foot to ones and explain an extension and the other is a bit of a caveat. You want to respond either of those. And then i'll give you my definition of remark. All right. I'm a political scientist. And i always resent the notion that economists want to talk about economic freedom. As if it were freedom. I think presumption in favor of liberty across the board accomplishes people's ability to establish communities of meaning around things that matter to them. And so the the argument for free markets. Is that it elaborates. Division of labor in a way that allows me to be prosperous enough to take all the other dimensions of my life and create human flourishing and economic liberty is only a tiny part of that so adam smith when he was writing theory of moral sentiments was trying to create. That's a. I agree with dan klein. That's his most libertarian book. He wants a presumption in favor of liberty across the board and then he realized you know we need to explain why it is that. The elaboration of division of labor creates enough prosperity to give us a space in which that can be accomplished and so we will have a kingdom of propriety propriety as a self correcting set of norms that over time we develop and learn more about and economic freedom. The argument for markets is a small part of that. And i would say the bridled when you said that ricardo's insight is perhaps more important than smith. Ricardo is no other way round. Okay that's important. That was overshadowed smith because people have like it because of its cleverness and but i think some actually much more important. Well i misunderstood in some readers. Listeners may have also so let me let me go back then and agree with you. Comparative advantage is an idea whose time has passed. we shouldn't even teach comparative advantage. Comparative advantage as a minor footnote division of labor. Because there are certain things. Yes it's hard to grow oranges in alaska. So the the usual examples. That i got we can do it. We can have hot houses and we can use solar panels for half an hour a day but it would be very expensive and so you should engage in that thing where you have the the lowest marginal costs but a lot of that is indigenous to the process of the development of division of labor and so sniffs example of the street-porter in the philosopher would say such an egalitarian. we're largely capable given good institutions. We're largely capable of developing our own human flourishing. We will find something where we can contribute and notice. The way to prosperity is to contribute something to society. We're going to leave that up individuals and they're going to use their own devices provided they have access to education in an enough infrastructure. So what what's really important is division of labor so the forty nine people who start out. They're all very talented. May go to an island. They're not doing very well at first but before long each of them specializes in something and then before long maybe they can trade with the mainland. They could become wealthy now. You're right that it's very bad at the outset. But the dynamic part of smith's view was that we can even if we're all clones and not very good at anything at the outset we can all develop a comparative advantage and those comparative advantage should be guided by prices. We'll get to that next. But when i when. I said by the way it's fifty nine forty nine. 'cause you're in there. Yeah they'll that. That fiftieth person. And what i meant by that is that without exchanging the mainland. They can never be wealthy. Your standards by our standards. I mean they could maybe at the end of the year. Build a few cars. They would die from starvation. They can't do the range of things. You and i have easy access to that. Millions hundreds of millions. A few billion people have access to Fortunately in today's world not everybody many say it. One more thing about that james buchanan would always give that example of why access to open markets is really important to developing nations. Paradoxically so the united states has a big internal market. We palpably can get by with quite a bit of protectionism. Sri lanka cannot negatively small countries. They need to open up precisely so that they get access to a larger market for just the reason that you say those fifty people those relatively small number of people in developing nation. They really have no hope of becoming wealthy exactly. So would you say freedom across the board. You mean outs in economic and commercial life but also in noncommercial life freedom to read what you want freedom to associate with whom you want to associate is that is that. Is that what you mean. By across the board a presumption in favor of liberty so any restriction on my liberty that doesn't involve the harm to someone else means that the burden of proof must be on the state. The state has to demonstrate. This is really important. Not i have to demonstrate why. I need that freedom so i'm going to finish now i would have thought my definition is what i would have said. Obviously it's a large area could inhabit different parts of it. But i would have said the key to free markets. I think people often assumed to things that i find interesting. They either assume that. When i say i'm a free market or they may not against government. They went no government. That i'm an anarchist effectively and i'm not not an anarchist. I believe in. I think the state should have worst property rights. It should've worst laws against fraud I i'm not an anarchist. So it doesn't mean zero government The main part of it for me is that prices are free to adjust without legal restriction. So no minimum wage. Ideally but for most of the labor market the minimum wage is not binding most for most people in the labor market so the labor market in the united states. Many other countries is effectively free except at the very bottom ironically or not. we'll talk. We'll talk about that But that that's the level of intervention. That i am wanna focus on at least the first part of our conversation. There's more to say. But what i want to emphasize. Is this idea that. I don't want the government steering outcomes v price which is very tempting As we'll talk about their many outcomes of market transactions where people voluntarily exchange that someone on the outside might look at it and go. I don't like that that makes me uncomfortable. I think that's bad. I think that hurts people certain kinds of people and we wanted to do something about that. Want to start with as my definition of free market is that the government does not tamper with prices. Allow prices to adjust That means that healthcare in the united states is not a free market it has market elements which i think confuses people it encourages people to blame markets for some of the outcomes. They don't like in the healthcare world and the healthcare field healthcare market. But it's not a free market is not a remotely a free market. There are many many things that would be different. If there was a free market and healthcare some of them wouldn't like some than you would like perhaps as a listener. But i wanted to just start with that as my sort of default definition as a free market is one where the government. Let's prices adjust. You wanna comment on that. That would be one element to me of a free market. They're also other regulations that are tantamount to price that is i have to get permission before. I innovate something. I have to get a license. That is the presumption is in favor of not doing anything. In order to do anything we lard up the process with a bunch of permits but yes by and large of free market requires freely adjusting prices. And the reason for that is that prices give signals about the opportunity costs of resources and knowing the opportunity cost of resources actually gives us a chance to act morally out of private incentives. So if something has high price that tells me other people want it also if it has a low price that means if i use it i won't be using up many resources now. Who are these other people. Why do they want it. I don't know and i don't need to know. That's the genius of prices. So prices give freely floating prices freely adjusting prices. Give us an opportunity to take the needs of other people into account. And if you try to keep prices artificially low you make people act selfishly when they don't want to. It looks to me like nobody else wants this toilet paper. I'll take the whole shelf. And so the reason for prices is that it gives us an accurate measure of the opportunity cost of the resource and what opportunity costs means. We often don't make that clear. Other people need this to think about other people. We use the example on here before When the aftermath of a natural disaster in you invite you. And i've had a few conversations about this general topic. We'll we'll link to those but this example bears repeating given what you just said the aftermath of a natural disaster. I may not know about the natural. Disaster may not have hit my neighborhood my area my state and so i'm thinking of building a porch and i get an estimate of the cost. It turns out all the lumber in the region and the carpenters and the skills that are necessary creator. Porch are working in the area where there was flooding and they're not welding reports they're replacing people's houses are allowing them to live comfortably again under a roof. And i'd like a porch. It's pleasant and if you said to me you know. My house just got destroyed by a flood. Could you let me have the carpenter for the next six months. And the lumber. That's available now and in the end of this month you can have your porch and i would say maybe maybe i would say yes. Maybe i would say yeah. I understand that. I sympathize with you. I'll let you have the resources but under barcode system. You don't have to find me. I just see that they're expensive. And i- i- defray the i i wait and build by porch later when the price is treat prices cheaper and i think that piece of market process is so miss understood and underappreciated that we're talking about a little bit more and we probably also you and i probably also talking about surge pricing and i've given the example in an essay that you know in with there's a threat of a terrorist attack. There's been a bomb somewhere is there has been a couple of times in the last few years and people think it might be stack and sometimes it is. They want to get out of the area where the places and we want people to go there to help them if they have the ability to do so. And that's what a high price for an uber. Does it says to people. Hey a bunch of people what this what you just said you can provide. It might be dangerous this case. You wanna know what the reason is for. You went down there but the price alone says hey come on in. We need your help. If you don't let the price rise you need to suggest what mechanism you would use to encourage people to do what you could make an announcement. There bunch people stranded this neighborhood. They wanna get out. Would you please go over there and that might work. It can work in certain communities. Certain ethic you know connections that people have. They might be willing to do that. But what prices do is in that case as get people to head toward danger really quite miraculous. Who do you think about it so it sends signals as you say about information that are not it. Can't they're not hanging around that information. It's not. It's not just posted everywhere. Doctors posted nowhere and it allows you to act as if it were posted. That's that's extraordinary is extraordinary and the nice thing about your example is that it does suggest an alternative that i often hear and well why not just since we're pricing this that it. It's like the famous maybe slightly apocryphal israeli daycare center. Where once you start to price could be apocryphal. One of my least favorite examples. It drives me crazy years old. It had a bunch of features. And then it's it's as if okay i've quoted from sacred texts and this gets quoted all the time it's been quarter of this program by more than one. Guess i'm so. They didn't realize how much i dislike at eight. Since you've mentioned as you're probably give a little detail well the the the bones of it were that people were picking up their children and they would pick up their children at the end of the day from the daycare center. And they're supposed to be there by. Let's say five. pm. Sometimes they're a little bit late. The daycare center was getting tired of this. And so they said we're going to start charging if they're late and people became more late not less because this meant that it was a fee for service arrangement where i could pay you to take care of my kids for a few more minutes so we changed it from something that was done out of love and mutual respect into something that was horse. Commodified and commodification is always the great san of markets according to many people. Now here's the thing. Moral communities can operate at small scale out of love and personal interactions and moral communities are really great. Smith thought moral communities were really terrific. And so if you look at the diamond merchants the orthodox jewish diamond merchants in new york. That's a moral community. Being excluded in antwerp being excluded from that community would be really expensive so they they. Millions of dollars are exchanged on a handshake. Don't even write it down. We understand that we can all trust each other. That's great but it doesn't operate at the scale that would allow us to achieve division of labor division of labor is limited by the extended the market and it needs to happen over a larger group and so the second concept is a moral order. And friedrich hayek james buchanan both developed this part of adam. Smith's inside a moral order is one where we trust each other because of a commitment to the rules not personal commitment to each other and so famously. The torch mason economists that you often cite as an example. If you have people growing potatoes in idaho and Stake in texas. Some of them might send steak and potatoes to. They're good friends that they know personally as part of a moral community in new york but new york is a big place. It's too big for moral community to work and it's good that it is because it helps us take advantage of division of labor so walter williams said you need something other than a moral community you need ineffective moral order. That's based on accepting of a price mechanism and as a result. We get great cds. Like new york where people don't know each other but they can trust the fact that when they go to the grocery store there's going to be steak and potatoes and myriad other things that were provided because of the price mechanism. Why it's because the opportunity cost of steak and potatoes in idaho and texas because they have developed a comparative advantage is much less and it's more valuable in new york and so they send it to new york and so the basis of this is a moral order. Markets are immoral order. it is not a moral anarchy. The moral anarchy is the breakdown of this belief that we all have in each other so a hierarchy is more community. Those are great. They're small they're fragile. A moral order is when we're committed to a sort of human set of conventions property price mechanism moral anarchy is when things break down and what people don't realize i think is that if you get rid of the market system you don't get an alternative system called socialism. At least not at first. And maybe never which you get is a moral anarchy where people don't trust each other so saying i want some alternative to the moral order of markets. Will you have to tell me what it is and how it's going to work because i'm skeptical so i did you bring up the daycare center because commodification is supposed to change the way that we act. It destroys a moral community. The daycare center was a moral community. We all did the right thing because we knew each other. Okay but the price mechanism becomes a moral order. Commodification can give us an alternative. That actually means that we can all operate within the system where prices give us information. I you know. I've talked about come out of occasion with some guests before on the program. I don't like the daycare center example because people conclude it means that prices don't work shocking. You raise the price a little bit. Some what you've done is as you pointed out very eloquent. Leave changed the product in this case. You change the expectations. I bet i could find a price increase. That would get people to churn time at five o'clock. I might have a business because people might be so nervous that they couldn't get their reliably by five o'clock that they would want to use the service. There's there's there's going to be trade-offs there. But i think people i think have made the wrong conclusion from that one time example Hit our rooms down the program saying this obviously couldn't have taken place in israel because there's no way somebody shows up at five two. It's going to pay a twenty dollar fine or even a twenty shackled find so anyway put that aside the reliability that one example but i think the point is interesting about wendy we use financial incentives material incentives versus norms and other ways of organizing interactions. There was a implicit contract at that daycare center. The you should come by five. People were evidently violating it. Coming at five oh five. Five three five fifteen imposing costs on others to avoid having caused some of their own of getting there at the right time four fifty nine so i understand how that could be that that that could deteriorate. That's that's situation and you their different ways you can solve it. You can pick a high of price that it discourages it. You could use shame there you know. There are many many ways to To to Improve that that situation but the moral order that you're talking about. I think a lot of people would say i hear it all the time. Actually well that's all sounds good. Slaughter romance about division of labor and blah blah blah monger. What about the fact that there's people are hungry and don't have much. What good great idea. About the divisional labor futile. Bring enough skills to the marketplace. You make if you're lucky the minimum wage. If you're you can't find work. How do you defend that attack. On the morning. I actually went to make it a little more general so i think what separates you and me a few things but what separated me from people who feel otherwise about the market is the idea that i am willing to tolerate some unattractive outcomes that could be somebody not getting ice in the aftermath of a natural disaster because they've chosen not to afford it or they literally can't afford it another example that we've talked about before it could be they're gonna be support people who don't have any skills that they bring to that market that divisional labor. Are we just going to say. Yeah that's life that markets or there's the answer i think for you and me. We don't pretend that markets were perfectly. We say the alternative to that is something that will have features. You may not like either. Is that a fair summary of how it's fair summary about. I feel about as good friend. Pete becky always says we need to be comparative us and so a comparative is going to say. Tell me what other system would systematically performed better. and so. here's my says. I'm going to give you my system. I want markets everywhere except that says accepted that coroner right in the aftermath of a natural disaster. And then i'm gonna pick a few other places. This person his his or her skills only worth four dollars an hour and i think that's human so i want ten and i'm not gonna let you sell your kidney because even though it's yours in many senses i don't think that's good for our moral order elsewhere. Many many people would pick particular examples over. They would intervene. I don't like that. Trade is destroying the way of life of a group of people. I like driverless cars if they actually calm because they're going to put millions of cab drivers out of work and those people will struggle to find something else. Are you gonna let those changes happen or you're going to stop them. Notice that those who would argue for that position are are imagining. And i literally mean imagining because it's an imaginary alternative that they can have all the features of a system that they pretty much like except they'll change only those things that they don't like about it and so that's a very difficult problem in fact the most that we can probably hope for is general sets of rules and so i try to teach my students that they should think in terms of rule utilitarianism rule utilitarianism means. There's relatively small number of focal point. Sort of shelling points. There's a way that we can organize line. A selling point is a particularly salient feature two more weeks. I'm going to go to prague in the czech republic and in the czech republic the tale of king. vince loss. Invensys law square is known as the place where everyone goes to meet if you're lost and so it just. It was a particularly salient place to go meet. If i don't the sellings example was you have to meet someone in the us. You're not sure when or where you would meet at midnight on new year's eve in times square or somewhere that everyone can think of well institutions are the same way but we all have conflicting plans and purposes. There's many different things that we all want to accomplish. There's a relatively small number of rules in a market system is one that constitute a way of organizing society that allows kind of self-correcting adjudication or reconciliation of conflicting plans and purposes. I want to do this. You want to use it also. We both want to use a piece of property. It turns out that using it for a restaurant is more valuable than using it for a parking lot so it becomes a restaurant so i wanted to build a parking lot. You wanted to build a restaurant what happens. We decided that using the price mechanism. that's not ideal but there's no other mechanism that will allow us if we just have rules. If what you want is discretion. That is i'm going to look and i i literally don't know what people mean i think. They mean they want to look because they want to be the dictator and they say yes. No yes no this outcome. Good this outcome. We will change in particular ways that means that. There's a really long line of people waiting to have their outcomes adjudicated by this monarch and their rent-seeking in the sense that each of them is trying to think up the best argument that they can. Why so they've discretion of. The monitor will be invoked on their side rather than on their opponent the cost of making decisions. That way means that you're months and months backed up and we saw this happening in revolutionary france. We've seen it in every socialist nation if you want to use discretion it means people don't know what the law is because the discretion of the state is going to be used to on the put a thumb on the scale of side that whoever the state wants. And even if you think that's going to be used in a way that's fair although surprise me if the powerful would intervene on behalf of the week probably the powerful are going to intervene on the path of the. But let's suppose that they're actually going to intervene on behalf of the week the cost of using that mechanism. We're gonna dwarf the games and we talked about this a little bit last time and david schnitzer's example about Desert town with with the traffic. Stop so you want to put a link to that. Also explain that briefly. I drive into town and cop pulls me over and says you know what you did wrong and i know not really there were there. Were no like traffic markers or anything and the other car stopped. So i went on and he said well here in desert town at every intersection. We all pull over and we talk to each other about. Who has the most legitimate reason to be in a hurry and ben whoever it gets priority gets to go through the intersection first. And then he stares at me. And i say you're obviously choking what the joke is but you're kidding and the cop says look i was going to let you off with awarding until you said that so. Is that a good system. That's a social justice system. Because sometimes i'm at a stop light and i'm in a hurry and russ i know you're going the other way and you're not in a hurry. You're ten minutes early. Damn kind of guy and so you should stop and let me go over. It's unjust except that. If we had a system where we all had to stop at every intersection it would take even the most in a hurry person. Ten more minutes than it would to wait for two minutes in an unjust way at the stoplight. So rule utilitarianism would say that. Even the least well-off going to be better off in a system that's predictable. Even though it's unjust it is absolutely unjust. Of course it is but the cost of achieving case by case justice through discretion and rent seeking argument will dwarf the benefits. That you imagine that you can provide you such doug. North student transaction cost guy. There's no doubt it's a great example though. I don't remember you're talking about that. But that's because i was my mind was drifting it happens it is interesting because it means that. If you were to ask you could get unanimous consent for stop stoplights. Even though people would say there are going to be times when they're unjust absolutely and of course there are times when people run a red light on the way to the hospital with a pregnant person. We might wanna make provision for that. So i broke the rules but still by and large wing to have the rules and so that's the relatively absolute absolute. That's hume's convention that smith's propriety so we have a bunch of different names but by and large we should stick to these rules. The the human convention of property the smiths notion of propriety the judgment of society the approval that we get from other people from acting in the right way. So let's bring this down to a more practical around We're in the middle of the corona virus. Pandemic still unbelievable. A number companies developed a vaccine. They sold it. They didn't give it away. They took a large amount of money to develop it for the research on the united states. I'm not sure how it worked. In other countries but a large basically a preorder was guaranteed the american companies that worked on it We could have just. We could have helped held them at gun point instead. Meaning coerce them. Force them to develop a vaccine. Most of would think you know it's probably gonna be that effective but the more interesting case is after they developed it. Should we expropriate it. And i think a lot of people. I know a lot of people think that's a good idea. I mean people were dying. You're not gonna really serious. You're going to allow pharmaceutical companies to make profit and listeners. now i've said many negative things about pharmaceuticals subsidies and i'm not a defensive. Pharmaceutical profit per se never should be don't confuse pro-competition. With pro business pro free market with pro business important Addendum to this whole conversation is not what we're talking about. We're talking about a process so there ever be a case where you would abrogate the property rights of an innovator like a pharmaceutical firm and say either well a lot of your money from the government anyway. A lot of your education of your workers came from subsidize universities So in some sense this is your property and therefore We have a moral and not just a moral obligation to require you to provide this at at a low price or zero price to the people in the world who can't afford it and That free market takes murtaza's murder literally. You're murdering people view believe in free markets. That's a case just gave is a case where discretion is is seen as. Just it's the it's the traffic light case. But with a set of consequences that bite in a little harsher harsher way. So how would you respond to that. Usual answer is some version of imminent domain so it has long established that the king or the state has the power to take private property. The founders of the american constitution were worried enough about that that they said that you had to give compensation so if you wanted to seize the license if you wanted to seize the formula to make the drugs in an emergency okay but why would it be that you have the right to say and we're not going to compensate you so you would. You would have to compensate. So i cannot force you to be a slave. I cannot force you to provide this for free to other nations. If i want to buy it and give it to other nations for free all right now people so but that's too expensive. We'll wait it's as expensive as it is. The question is if you think it's a public good. Should it be born by the public or should pay by the private innovator who next time this happens is going to think twice about innovating. So the one of the difficulties is that. If i come up with an innovation and i look back at the past and i see that if anyone who was successful headed nationalized my incentives to come up with an innovation. Next time we're much less. Yeah i used to like to say that. In the united states people were allowed to come in in in in the venture capital industry. They're allowed to get incredibly wealthy and they're allowed to lose all their money They bear mostly the risks and rewards of their own choices that encourages prudence foresight as best as possible and even with those incredible incentives. Three out of ten fail three out of ten or okay. Three out of ten do pretty well and one is a is a home run. That's a tremendous track record. It's just hard to predict what's going to be valuable and useful. And if you're not careful with the incentives you won't even get those numbers it is. Also you'll squander you'll squander your capital your your savings and will be the poorer for it. So i think one way of thinking about the difference between people like us who are sympathetic to market forces. Is that on a case by case basis. Certainly there comes. You don't like the liked to intervene in but you'd have to answer the question. The thomas soul george stigler question and then what and dot com that discouragement of future innovation might dry up short. And i think that's quite so we have to now. One is the transactions cost using discretion which will dwarf the benefit you imagine in the second is the loss of future innovation and work on research because it was nationalized. Those are two different very powerful arguments. And there's a third. And i just want to also say that i am going to get to make a stronger case against markets. I will make. I will do my best in a minute. But the third case is the one. I think that segues into what we wanted to make sure we got today. which is. You're assuming that the regulator the king actually has some vague moral sense about what's good for the people rather than helping his friends and that piece of it is another reason that rules rather than discretion should not just be the default but enshrined as an ideal even though they are imperfect because the alternative is relatively appalling in history At least i think in often in recent times as well so how would you. How do you think about that. There are two things that people. When i pressed them on. Just the question. You just raised. There's usually two systems that people have in mind and one is an unaccountable unelected priesthood of experts. And a. that's really interesting. How are you going to choose them. And why would you think once you create this power. Why would you think that a system based on power will protect the week because probably what priesthood do is it particularly if they're completely unaccountable is protect the rights and privileges of that priesthood. Now maybe they'll try to do what they think is best but they probably don't really have enough information so the problem of experts is that we don't have the is the the hayek problem about the socialist calculation debate. Now the other thing that they sometimes say as well used democracy gosh so consumers are too stupid to know how big sized coke to buy in new york but they can solve the problems of foreign policy that escape statesman so the problem is and this is the answer. A bit actually. I've i've converted a couple of people with justice sentence and i've talked about this before on the program but let me say it again. Every flaw and consumers is worse than voters flaw in consumers is worse than voters do consumers. Lack the information that they would need to know what kind of cornflakes to buy. Maybe there's misrepresentations there's fraud do the do voters know which politician they want to vote for every problem. That faces consumers is much worse for voters which with the additional problem. That if i'm a consumer and i bad by bad cornflakes i say dang those are bad cornflakes. I'm not buying those again. If i vote for a bad politician there are no consequences because my vote has nothing to do with the outcome. it's just an expressive act. So the problems that our friend bryan caplan has raised about voting are on top of all the ignorance. The rational ignorance problems that you have with consumers so if you think democracy is better than markets you need to ask yourself about the incentives and information that discovery process that is markets. All we have is the very crude instrument votes. So i always thought that i i would say you know what if a really bad person where to take office now in the mind of by leftist interlocutors. Donald trump was such a person so it's no longer hypothetical now not taking a position on whether he was or not but for them. Donald trump was a bad guy. So it's no wonder hypothetical so. I assumed that they would say you know you were right. We should have less concentrated power in the government because we cannot be sure and know what they said what they said instead was we're going to double down and make sure that never again does a person that we disagree with get to take power. That's not the way democracy works but it's a remarkable claims so there's two possibilities and unaccountable priesthood of experts. In which case. How are you going to choose them. If you use democracy you've just moved it back to democracy or democracy from the get-go in which case every flaw in consumers is worse than voters. And so we if if you think that you can do better than the market allocation you have to tell me in an institution that doesn't involve unelected experts or rationally. Ignorant voters silos lovely. I'm very empathetic arguments. But don't you believe in the epa around mental protection agency now and you believe in certain government agencies restrict free markets and free trade. I do. I think it's good. The government has regulations against pollution poorly designed. They're often designed to help the friends of the politically powerful but generally suspect or hope. Maybe it's a you know a dream. It's a fantasy that the inefficiencies or immorality of some of those outcomes relative to the gains from the overall restrictions saying pollution are are probably worth it elsewhere. Not so much as a case. Classic example of market failure that that there's these extra analyses i wanna dump. I have a natural incentive to want to dump my garbage in your lake rather than my own in your aerospace rather than my own and so we need laws against that. You would agree with me right. Notice what you did. And i realize you're doing this partly tongue in cheek but someone who makes that. Argument apparently got stuck at the sophomore level in high school debate. Because what they hear from their opponent is i think the government should not do everything and then a tribute to their opponent proclaimed therefore the government should do nothing. I never said that you never said that. Perilously close in the middle of that parade. I i know you don't believe that we're so the i'm telling you you need to give me a better system. And so the epa is a and in fact. We recently have seen some examples of bureaucracies that because of democratic pressures are not performing the way many of their fans thought that they would so adc. Anyone yes so the it makes it very difficult when you have the priesthood. That is responsive to democratic pressures so the market failure paradigm calculates the existence of an equilibrium which is different from the actual outcome of markets. Now there's a couple of problems one is. This equillibrium doesn't exist because remember from the outset. The argument for markets is increasing returns to scale. Everybody's afraid of the irs. But i don't mean the internal revenue service. I mean increasing returns to scale increasing returns. To scale mean that there is no equillibrium. The argument for markets is division of labor division of labor sharply increasing returns to scale. Equil- abram exists your justification in the market deal your paradigm. Is that a nonexistent. Equillibrium is better than the one that markets provide us. That's a remarkable idea. It actually doesn't exist now if it did exist. Would you be able to calculate it without prices. You would not so. There's some hypothetical alternative that you want to talk about now. I'm a fan of the nba. I'm a fan of the food and drug administration so those those are two different market failures so environmental protection agency is externalities. The food and drug administration is asymmetric information and to be fair. Many of our colleagues who are pro market people will go through some elaborate story about you know. Markets could do this this the particularly for the food and drug administration. The problem reputation in there is a problem of asymmetric information but we saw that all the time using reputation and brand name and so drugs would have a brand name. Yes but the transactions cost argument cuts both ways. It may very well be that having some process like the food and drug administration and notice. I said like the drug administration not our food and drug administration which actually is still not approved a beck seen that is the three banks that have been given to tens of millions of people. We've gotta check well. We actually have had a pretty big experiment so drug administration may not be a perfect example. But i could imagine a food and drug administration whose job it is to test. Whether drugs are safe and efficacious. I could imagine consumer reports a private agency doing that. And i could imagine both of these two simultaneously operating in different parts of the market. But sure if you want to have regulatory agencies that are actually staffed by experts that's great that's different from having the state tried to manage prices. On a discretionary level. Good administration has a process that we go through to get drugs. Licensed i'm to. It's going to be hard for me. But i'm going to try to defend the food and drug ministration and the expertise bottle. I think a lot of our friends are critical of them interesting. Actually just like they might. Some people might suggest that the masuda suitable companies are murderers. Because they don't give away their product for free to desperately ill people who can't afford it. Our friends in the market oriented community of suggested that the fda has are murderers well actually during the aids epidemic. A lot of people on the left said that the too that's true fair enough but is mostly people on the free market side. I'd say that the fda is insufficiently slow in approving drugs. But i want to just. It's kind of ironic. I don't think it's weird when i've never really thought about this there. Corruption is not the standard sort of public choice. Corruption of well will delay the drugs because We're going to get paid off now. I think they are. There are incentives to tamper with the drug approval process that does Privilege existing competitors who make large contributions to politicians. I want to be careful here. But i think when the fda when a team of a group of of of researchers and scientists have to weigh in on the efficacy or safety of drug. I think it's their human failings that are stake their their fear of being branded as harmful which increases their caution net. Caution is often. What would we blame. The market for being insufficiently cautious because of the profit motive. We have a similar problem in the government side. Perhaps where they too cautious out of fear that they might say. Don't get any of the upside. Don't get any of the returns from the pharmaceutical innovation on the higher stock prices. They just kind of focus on the downside so they take their time. I get it but the you're right. That's not the way public toys. People usually talk about corruption. But that's because public choice often takes a sort of shallow self interested of byu. That ludvik. Mrs gordon teluk. And william niskanen alright books on bureaucracy. Where the policy you just talk about was the central theme. It is a natural option. Ness it is a feature of bureaucracy that it's a kind of self interest. I get nothing if we approve a drug. That goes through quickly if it turns out to be harmful. I can get punished if i say no. No we're really careful and scientific we delay there's only benefit. There's only upside. Let's talk about the ugliest pig. I can't believe we got in there. Then i wanna come to the harder cases. I think we've kinda ducked a little bit. This is actually an example. That gordon teluk used although he used a roman emperor and minstrels i'm redneck from north carolina. And so i use a pigs. So at the state fair their contests about livestock but imagine that We have an adult pretty pig contest and adult pigs are not pretty so there's only two entrance so we bring out the first pig and the judges go horrible at the pig is so ugly. This is forget it. We're just going to give the price to the second big well. It's fair enough to say that the first pig is ugly. But you have seen the second pig. And so i actually. I used to use this example. Only in one direction and i have come around to st- understanding we need to use it in both directions. There are a bunch of people on the left who look at markets and then they come up with a long list of outrages and in decencies inequalities terrible infelicitous awful things that they would change therefore will use the state to do that imagining that there is some set of institutions in the state would accomplish what they can imagine on the other hand. There are pro-market people who look at things like the food and drug administration and say well. We could do this with reputation. The way reputations get formed as a bunch of people die there really big costs to having to develop a reputation or get rid of firms that have bad reputations in the production of drugs if we got rid of the food and drug administration. It is true that before long we would start to see brand named solve the symmetric information problem but the cost of doing that would be really high the fact that markets can do. Something doesn't mean that it's the way of doing it. So there's a bunch of pro-market people who look at the state pig. Say god that's an ugly big. Let's give the award to markets. That's just as bad. So i want to advocate for a comparative systems approach. Where we recognize that. It's not true in adam. Smith understood this clearly. Many people think markets or what happened when the state does nothing. That's not right. Markets are what happened when the state does the right kind of nothing which we've talked about before in on the podcast. The right kind of nothing. Something that's really hard to do. You need to be a good state to do the right kind of nothing to create a setting where permit permission list innovation is possible. But that means there's a set of property rights there's a system for judicata disputes over property rights all of which are operating in the background and so people who use the pretty pig approach in either direction are doing a disservice to their own argument. Beautifully said allows get to the harder cases A handful of firms to get fancy acronyms are not going to mention but the acronyms but large tech firms google facebook etcetera do anything about him she would just let him make as much money as they. They figured out some really clever ways to make it really cheat ingenious ways to make money selling giving stuff away and yet somehow finding a way to make money and what they give away is incredibly pleasant to the people who receive it at no charge body at all the way that's working out or do you think it's fine and if so if it bothers you because you think it's an ugly big. Do you have a pretty your pick for me. I think that is the greatest problem that we face. And let me. Let me cite. An example from Daphne kenyon at stanford so the way that she raises. This example is there are these platforms that have undue control over. Who gets to publish. And they're close to being common carriers and it means that it's mean it's not really censorship because the first amendment only protects against state censorship but these companies are just too powerful. So you've got a company that gets to decide will publish. This will not publish this. We will we will accept certain ad revenue from some people. We won't accept from someone else so we should break up and we've got like ten twenty million people on this platform reading things at any time so clearly we know more than that more than ways at ten twenty up so clearly. We need to break up the new york times. I'm talking about the new york times. The new york times is a platform where many people interact. They have comments. The new york times gets to decide what they're going to publish what they're not going to publish so the nice thing about her example is that there's an unexpected punchline. We'll presumably we're not going to break up the new york times even though it does have a gigantic amount of power so the question is are there companies that how how big would be large enough. There's a bunch of different companies that compete with each other. They compete with each other for eyeballs and attention now internally. It's true that there are a platform the difficulty that we have and the reason that i've become more concerned about this than i was. Was that at some point if a company is large enough it is both a firm in the industry and the industry itself. And i don't mean just in a monopoly sense. I mean that facebook is the place where people go to get information and we may have some We may have concerns that it is being used to provide information. That is false. Things are rarely so bad but government intervention can make them worse so the proposal from the biden administration seems to be that. We're going to have a bureaucrat. And the department of health and human services that all the claims about vaccines that are on facebook and say this will be allowed. This will not be allowed which is a whole lot like waiting at the intersection to decide. Gets to go through the intersection. I so i think there is a problem. I do think that all the and this is actually. My current book is a new anti-trust. Kerr so what. I'm what i'm trying to work on now is do we need a new anti-trust paradigm and what would it look like. And i think that. I'm actually gonna go full co here. This is not a question of concentration. it's a question of power. And it may be political power and i don't know what the answer is but we may need political solutions to a problem of concentrated political power. And that's that's going to be episode forty or forty two. We'll see when it comes. I hope forty-five jackie robinson episode baseball. Luger for you michael. Let's close talking about poverty. A lot of interventionists. A lot of non anti-free-market people or people who think differently than i do. They want to intervene in the labor market in different ways When what you mentioned is licensing. They're worried about whether people might be deceived by the products. That people are selling the skills or services. Our marketing but more commonly people were unhappy with market wages. They might believe. I think incorrectly. The arca wages are set by the companies that pay them. It's a reasonable thought. But in fact you know. I like to point out that i've spent my career. Almost i did spend some time working at a racetrack. And i worked at hojo's for you older listeners. When i was younger i did that. Bring a smile to your face. I'll tell you. Mike i it as a new hojo's employees. I want my customers ordered to hotdogs. And i i moved down on the slip and i get put it in a little thing that the chef the cook uses to make the hotdogs and five minutes past the ten minutes past fifteen minutes past in my customer said where am i hot dogs and i and i went back to the kitchen and i said whereby hotdogs did he said he pulled the slip out and he said we don't serve hot dogs. We serve frankfurters. Change it Listen live for young man that was probably fifteen Bet guy now works with the food and drug administration and he didn't likely i've which i don't really blame him but i spent most of my current academics very well paid but when i was younger i wasn't particularly well paid and i enjoyed it loved it and was happy to be paid what i was paid. The irony is. I could have gone to wall street. You could have to and we could have made a lot more money with a phd and economics. Isn't it weird. That wall street pays more than the nonprofit university aren't nonprofits nicer. Isn't wall street greedy. Why would they give away so much. Money to higher wages of their employees the answer courses. They don't set the wages. They're set by market and competition among the firms. But i think it's easy to think that it's otherwise into blame as an example used earlier and say you should pay for this company. You should pay more than than the market will bear because it's horrible. I don't like this outcome where certain people are earning low wages How do you feel about that. You think we should intervene in those situations. We don't that's a very much a market outcome. The salaries of disperse hours we face couldn't firms take the have less profit and pay more. Could we require them to pay more than the market outcome. When that'd be a better coach better world you raised a bunch of questions. Let me try to take them quickly. why is it that football players make more than teachers. Why is it that People on wall street make more than a college teachers. And that's diamonds water paradox. The fact is that at the margin. The marginal soccer players make less than teachers. You're only looking at the very top soccer or football players. Yes they make a lot but at the margin of teachers make quite a bit more than the very marginal soccer players. And so there's a lot of people on wall street or no longer on wall street there now waiters hojo's until it went bankrupt So at the margin it. If i just look at averages top salaries. I'm going to get a strange picture of of the labor market. The second thing is a solution we often propose is something like minimum wages and the idea is that the company could afford to pay and it would benefit the workers. And so it's a prado. Improvement will just pass a law and everybody'll be better off because it won't really hurt the company's because they'll all pay that If you go into a mcdonalds now you will probably not talk to a human being. You'll punch in your order on a kiosk and notice that used to go in. You looked up at a board. You would say some words that you reading aloud big mac fries coke and they would find the corresponding words on their cash register and press them. All you have to do is turn the cash register around. Oh we that's a kiosk. I press the buttons now and bet person has lost their job that has been accelerated by minimum wages. That process was going on anyway. But the people at the very bottom of the scale whose jobs can be replaced by software. Minimum wages are going dramatically to accelerate that process. So there's a difference between intent the policy. And i when i say i think minimum wages are a bad idea for this reason. I'll have students say well but minimum wages are just good. It's something that good people want. And it's actually. It's a moral test for them. Maybe precisely because it's not a terribly good idea for economic reasons but that brings me to the last part. which is i think politically. This ship has sailed. There is such a large amount of political support for. We have to do something. And so. I'm going to take the milton friedman view here and what we need to do is do the thing that is least damaging and as you know. I think that the answer is universal basic income. I don't think that there's any system better than that because the people that i know that are against universal basic income are not saying you know. We need minimum wages instead of that. Well no what we need is a way to recognize that politically. People are very worried and upset about what they see as the unequal application of the benefits that come from economic innovation and the changes in the economy what they see is an increased precariousness for those at the bottom of the income scale. We're going to do something. And so i think that universal basic income is the best of the bad lot and there. I'm happy to have that debate. But what i would like to see is not a rearguard action against We should do nothing about poverty either because people who are poor deserve it or because well there's nothing we can do. We're going to do something politically. And so i wonder if universal basic income is not the best of the ugly picks Well okay i. There's a lot to say there. I got you know my answer to that is kinda cheap answer. I don't really love it. My answer is we have a really lousy public school system in america. And so the way you're going to cope with that set of making a better. You're going to artificially change the prices of labor and you think we can just make it better. That'll be that's a great idea. We should make a public school system better. Let's start now. Who's down we. It's gonna be like athens. Scholem college where i'm not a political slums higher public school system. Better i'm i'm with you. Let's do that. Yeah well but actually have a way to make it better now. You could argue just even your leg. But i do think that more incentive driven system with more freedom of choice unless top down government Design of that curriculum is on. I think we'd be a better system. And i think they case for it but i accept the point. It's an excellent point. That that i think is very hard for people to face when they're told to expel to tell their alternative. This example you gave earlier. I want i want like it is now but that'll be different and nothing else. That's what i want. That world is is is a fantasy. it's it it may be a comforting fantasy by the way I think universal gig on my we. We've talked about it before in the program Maybe not enough. We'll come back do longer episode on it It's interesting invoked. Milton friedman melton. Actually you know. It was one of the earliest. The earliest advocate for a negative income tax which has become the earned income credit I think it's not sufficiently appreciated that. That is one of the handful of innovations that he actually proposed that got accepted. It would be. It'd be the earned income credit. He would've liked to get rid of all of their welfare programs. I was gonna say but it's he ended up. He ended up being against it because they didn't take everything else out. And that's my proposal. Also i want to get rid of everything else including minimum wage. If you're not gonna get. I'm not for it okay. We'll talk about it to be continued. My guest today has been the great michael monger mike. Thanks for being part of it was such a pleasure. This is econ- talk part of the library of economics and liberty for maury contact. Econ talk dot org where you can also comment on. Today's podcast and find links and readings related to today's conversation sound engineer. Free cock rich go yet. I'm your host russ roberts. Thanks for listening to talk to you on monday.

smith daycare center division of labor library of economic liberty Russ roberts shalom college new york Michael munger mike class shoemaker cooper adam smith deirdre mccloskey adam smith david mike ricardo Ricardo dan klein united states
Is It Time for Your Encore Career?  Ruth Wooden

The Retirement Wisdom Podcast

46:58 min | 5 months ago

Is It Time for Your Encore Career? Ruth Wooden

"You're listening to the retirement. Wisdom podcast focusing on the changing nature of retirement today and the non financial aspects of a successful retirement transition. Join host joe. Casey and learn from leading experts in the field and the stories of people who created interesting second acts as they share practical ideas and tips to create your own check out our website at retirement wisdom dot com where you can download our newsletter and other resources to learn more about how coaching can help you. The best way to support this podcast as the head over to apple podcasts and post a rating comment. It's easy and it's free. Join our conversation. Get wiser about your retirement. Welcome to retirement with tom. Podcast becoming increasingly clear. The traditional approach retirement simply doesn't work for many people any longer many people retiring but they're not dunya in wondering about how they can create an encore career. A second hacked if you will today we have a special guest who not only has created her own encore career. She's been involved in the encore movement for quite some time and she is designed and launched a program that helps people create their own encore career. I'm thrilled to the opportunity to talk with our guest. Ruth wooden today. Ruth wooden retired twenty eleven from her career in communications in both the commercial and nonprofit sectors in retirement went back to grad school received a master's in religious studies from union the illogical seminary new york city that experience letter design a non degree class for adults fifty five plus the encore transition program which combines discernment about aging spirituality and experiential social justice opportunities than nonprofit religious public sectors. Ruth wins career encompassed thirty years of experience in marketing and advertising including serving for twelve years as the president. Ceo of the advertising council the leading producer of public service communication programs in the united states also served as president of public agenda which was founded in nineteen seventy five by former secretary of state cyrus vance and social scientists. Daniel yankelovich helps citizens better understand critical policy. Issues and help. The nation's leaders better understand the public's point of view before serving as public agendas president. She was senior counselor at the international communications firm porter novelli and she also served as the volunteer coordinator of the madison avenue advertising team for the presidential campaign of senator bill bradley ruth also served as the board chair of on corridor the leading voice in research and advocacy for building a movement to tap the skills and experiences of those embiid life beyond route. Thanks for joining us today. My pleasure so how would you describe your career in your encore. So far. I think my career was one stage when i became skilled by practice and experience in marketing and communications. And that's how. I got known for but my encore has been much more of a individual journey of learning. I feel like i'm a student. Somebody asked me the other day. What do i do. And now that i'm in retirement. I said i read. I read all the time. I'm hungry to read and so i don't mind being alone. I sometimes think the pandemic was made for me now after a very public kind of extroverted career. I'm really reveling in being a students. I liked school. So when i thought about going back to school after i retired it really appealed to me. I do know that. When i planned on retiring i did not want to stay in communications. I actually do have one client a consulting client that i've had for ten years on communications but there are a nonprofit foundation doing work around poverty issues so i'm able to learn as well as applied my communication skills. But that's i'm doing it. Because i'm learning about poverty issues and policy issues that i wouldn't have done otherwise. But they're very two phases are quite different rethink of those spaces. What's brought you to this point now. Personally and professionally. I feel i've lived a very blessed life. I am writing a memoir now. Which i had never planned to do so. That's a new experience. It's kind of my encore project. Probably for the next couple of years. And so i have been reflecting and i realized looking back at seventy five years. I have been blessed. Like the best luckiest person in the world. I think i'm a canary in the mine. I was born in nineteen forty six. So i'm the very front of the baby girl. I grew up in the midwest. The granddaughter of norwegian immigrants i went to public schools. I was the oldest of four children. My mother and father were both college graduates and professionals. We were middle-class maybe upper middle class in a nice suburb of minneapolis and my parents loved each other as well as loving the four of us. So i was blessed. I went to the university of minnesota. I was a really good student. I had one of those high school careers. That other girls are jealous of you know they hated me because i was captured the cheerleaders and homecoming prince in. But i was also the salutatorian. Mike class in nineteen sixty four. Three hundred fifty kids so i was a smart girl but i was still told i had to take typing and i was still told. Jobs were listed employment female and employment male. I had expectations of a rich life. I knew i wanted to work. My mother had gone back to work and she was an administrator in an art museum at the minneapolis institute of art. She was the number two person she had very good job so i had this role model but i honestly never expected to have had the career. I did my expectations. Were you not be you know well. Employed my goal at the beginning was to get a job. He didn't have to type. I thought that would signify something. But you know i went to my fiftieth high school reunion and i realized that when all of us girls were there and sixty four graduating none of us expected the rich lives most of us ended up with and i looked at the man and i have a feeling that a lot of them ended up with less and what they had expected they. Many of them seemed kind of laconic. They were retired. And i say loss. I don't mean lost but they. They didn't have the energy that the women did that that that night and the woman had many things to talk about. The men were talking about golf and occasionally their grandchildren. But i didn't find them as interesting as the women that year but it was just a really reflected the gap between our expectations in sixty four and our reality fifty years later. What are your thoughts on the encore. And i know that you've been involved or movement really since it's really this. Could you share the story of hire became involved with it. Sure well. I was fortunate during my professional life to become bowker. The number of nonprofits. And i was actually on the board of the end the mcconnell clark foundation and the president of that foundation mike belan had mentored a young man earlier in his life by the name of mark friedman. And as you know mark. Friedman became the entrepreneur social entrepreneur who created the encore movement. If you will in the early days he called the organization that was a think tank civic ventures trying to understand how to take this longevity benefit to benefit society and it was always about how to solve social problems. He came to the idea of encore movement. Meaning the the benefit of the longevity experience that was giving us a huge generation of people with very energetic time on their hands say in their sixties and seventies that was new in america and so he started this think-tank to think about these issues and he had a wonderful sociologist on the board. The man who helped run elder hostel etcetera etcetera. And he came to me through this connection with mike belan at the foundation and asked me if i would join his board and this was the startup. It was fun the group that he put together included. John gardner one of the great public intellectuals of the last century so it was a very exciting group and in the early days we did a lot of research about this stage of life. And i can still remember doing this. Research with a dear friend of mine margaret mark. Who's one of the most talented researchers i've ever worked with. I worked with her in advertising. So i brought her to the table and she did these groups where she asked people in the group to create a collage of images and she. Everybody had the same images from ads and books. Cetera create an image of the perfect retirement in every group created their own collage together. And then we looked at like ten collages and every one of them had the same one photo but it was the only photo that was true in everybody's picture and it was always in the center which according to margaret hardly ever happens but it was a photo it happened to be from a an ad for maxwell house coffee table things and it showed a couple older couple in their sixties. You couldn't tell whether they were a married couple but they were woman in a man and they were having a cup of coffee. They were relaxing but they were darkening close in the background. You could see a banner saying community guard day and you can see people with wheelchairs. A lot of them were young people. And this was this kind of intergenerational community day and it showed up every single collage golf so did sailing thought it all kinds of other things. This was the one and that really clueless into service or community activism as a core definer of the encore stage. The encore ethic. Encore isn't just about what you do in your encore stage. Say at sixty or after retirement. It's about purpose that endemic to the definition in our view. There's lots of things we all do. I like to read and walk on the beach and play with my nieces and nephews and whatever but purpose is inextricably linked to the idea of the encore movement. It's clear bachelor up in the centre consistently everyone script caution volumes wondering what do you think is different about people as they enter the encore stage of life. It's a good question because it certainly berries in large part dependent what preceded and whether their health is in good shape so is variable that can change things and if they worked in a way that felt satisfied to some degree that affects things but if they've labored in just really physically exhausted. That's something else. So it does vary by what preceded the time if you arrived at sixty five. Let's just us sixty five and you're in reasonably good health and you feel reconciled to having a good ending to your work life then. I think people do turn to what now it. It's right in line with eric erikson's developmental stage model. It's what he calls the longevity stage but that he talks about the the generative stage. What do you generate at this time. And in history. Most of that generative work has been a legacy with your family whether it's a financial legacy or storytelling or whatever but now there's just a few more years of that legacy moment and so people do turn to thinking about what's next for a lot of people it's a continuation of what they were doing but they go deeper. They my sense. Because i teach this class at union called the court retirement. We can talk about her. Encore transition face because it is a seminal transition moment. It's not getting married or big moments you know becoming an empty nester. These are seminole life moments where things change. So what i've noticed is for a lot of people. The world in some ways kind of gets narrower but deeper so a number of people find themselves deeply engaged with their families or deeply engaged with a small group of friends. They don't have as many acquaintances anymore and they also get more engaged in their community in more one on one kinds of things. They're not so likely to be writing the operational plan for a protest. They might join it. But it's it tends to be a little bit more individual so i like to think of it as for a lot of people it's a conscious choice to be somewhat narrower but deeper eventually union point where you back for masters to her. It's also story of with that. But this is one of those serendipity stories that you only know about its impact until you look back at it later. So i was retiring and because i was running a nonprofit i gave billboard six months notice so word got out that i was going to retire. One funny story was. I would hear from friends who heard the news. The women all wrote and said congratulations. That's great and most of the men wrote and said we'll what are you gonna do now. And i finally at so intrigued by the difference. I wrote an article for one of the women's magazines about the different reaction. You know leave it to women to say congratulations now. You only have five jobs a day instead of six but one man kept asking me so often what i was going to do next. I finally said you know what. I'm going to buy a new bathing suit. That's what i'm gonna do next. And he stopped asking but anyway. I was just enjoying talking to people and connecting with. He wanted to have lunch and talk to me about what to do. Etcetera was those funds. And i got a phone call from bill. Moyers who i knew to his wife. Actually his wife judith was on the board of the organization. I was running public agenda and i got to know them and they had invited me on. Several occasions to events at union was on the board there as well and bill had endowed lecture. Series in judith. Name for her seventy fifth birthday present and it was a lecture series called women of spirit and once a year. They have a very big time speaker who speaks to the union world. The latest one and the last one was last february and it was ruth bader ginsburg and it was her last public event. So that's the kind of thing. Bill does for union. By the way i don't know if this he's a baptist minister he was trained just want baptist seminary so you could tell in his cadence anyway. He had suggested that. I'm meet one on one with three jones. Who is the president. And now she's been there ten years of union theological haven't come from yale. She's the first woman little bit younger than me. So i didn't know why he wanted me to meet her but we met for lunch and she asked me if i would be interested in teaching there and teaching conflict resolution which is something. We did a lot of public agenda and it was doing what i did before and i wasn't the least bit interested. I told her first of all. It's not a class. it's a workshop. I can do a workshop. did you want. But i'm really not that interested. And she said. I said i'll do the workshop and then she said an accidental line. She said okay. I'm just gonna make sure that we only make it available to the students at union on the ordination track and i looked at her puzzled. And said isn't that everybody and she said oh no. It's only about half our students. And i said well what are the other half do. She's in hell. They go into teaching. They go into counseling. And i'm thinking you know. I've been having these weird dreams of being in a classroom. I didn't tell her this. But i'm thinking of at the time thinking and she said you know we have this wonderful track called psychology and religion and we look at the field from the standpoint of spirituality and thinking room so i go home. I look up the course catalog. and there's at least five classes. I wish i could take so without telling serene. I applied as a non degree student. They had this non degree track. And it meant that. I would get credit for the class. But i wasn't working. Toward a degree. I could reapply for a degree status. If i wanted to in credit count it wasn't like an audit. I was really taking the class. I was going to get a great okay. I took a class on nineteenth century. American theological liberalism. It was a history class and history is my love. Well i was just knocked out. So i am by the way i called serene i said okay. I'll teach this thing. But i'm going to class. She said holy crap anyway so. I took the one class the next semester. I took the twentieth century. Theological liberalism and i took a course on psych and religion kind of early stages of understanding with basically throwing droid young. In the what's her name doesn't matter to me. And i'm thinking oh my god and then there are all these classes on social ethics. The black social gospel. I took bible. Because i had to take bible and i had to take systematic theology so i learned all the theologians many of whom had taught at union like neighbor until these are things i never did. I never studied philosophy. I'm elapsed episcopalian. I stopped going to church when i was sixteen. And i just fell in love with my coursework half time for four and a half years in order to get the degree and i finished in may of sixteen but right from the beginning i had this idea of a class that i wish i could have taken. I'm feeling that i haven't finished my spiritual journey. I don't want to work the way i worked before. But i'm feeling this inchoate interest in justice. So i kept telling me i. I had this idea for a class. I think we could make it work. I wrote the marketing story. If you will and she said give it a try. And i started in the fall of seventeen the spring of seventeen right after i graduated. Sixteen took six months. Did not do anything plan the class that i opened it up in january seventeen. And i've been doing it every semester. Since it's a semester course innocent. I have a lottery. Nobody has to write a paper but we have a lot of a lot of discernment dialogue and then it gets quite practical about how you do. Encore work at that point. Where reading the encore career handbook written by my colleague from encore dot or marciel her. But we read a lot of spiritual work. Before that we re thomas merton and richard roth was a franciscan priests we read a non joan chichester and we re secular books. William bridges transitions is the classic. We start there if you've by sister. Jonah's really profound. That's everybody's favorite book. And then i've also got to that. When written in grad school as well was offered by richer foiling upward is the other classic transitions falling upward gift. Years and parker palmer. Let your life spink. Most of the classics in my course and the gift of years is a wonderful structure because it forces you to look at the blessings of aging and the burdens and any topic has a blessing a burden. Apparently sister joan is still alive. And so were but william bridges has passed away. Harker palmer is still alive. He writes for a blog on being. So you can see him too so a lot of writers now who are living writing about this stage of life now. She certainly doesn't need me plugging her show. But for sister. John bennett oprah super bowl sunday number. And they're they're both catholics. And i'm not catholic. So i'm always have to apologize class but i find the catholics are the brightest writers. I mean thomas. Merton is my god. So i have a kind of having kind of a catholic tipton. I'm not catholic. But i will tell you one of my students in my very first class. Read the richard roth book. And he's fransciscan. Who gets as close to a heretic as you can get and still not get kicked out of the church and this woman read this book and she had was a a very dismayed catholic about the because of the sexual hase's and she said if i'd had this book twenty years ago i would still be a catholic. I wrote him to tell him that. I it was so encouraging to people who have problems with the church as he does but who believe and have faith because in the end it's about faith and i found my fate by doing all this work between that and being a member of alanon. I have all the spiritual help i need. I actually don't belong to a church. I go to a church where i live now in hard time in hawaii because i found a church i like but it's not church as much as faith and the hope for grace that keeps me kind of in the fold if you will spiritual as such as important moments in the transition on later life i think so clearly in i find that every semester. I get more applications than i know what to do. I can cure rate at class. Now i'm on zoom and people from all over the country. It's just it's been wonderful. It's terrifying because i don't think i'm a teacher. I think i'm a good facilitator. I'm just glad. I don't have to write a lecture every week but i have to be responsive on fly which is a little nerve racking. I can't prepare ahead of time for what people are going to say me. Last night we had a conversation. What came up was obviously what had happened this week with the trial of derek chauvin and my hometown of minneapolis. People were sharing about that and we have a woman who is african american in the program who was talking about the impact on her and then she said when i was almost nine my father who was a cop was shot and killed in the line of duty while the whole room just stopped knowing that that was her life and here she is celebrating a different moment of racial justice the fact that her father had been a cop with a big deal which he was nine years old in boston molested by my hometown issues in the seminar in the workshop in the program what are the big challenges you see people working through the course of the semester. Yeah well i mean. I have to say that ageism as our brand ashton applewhite says is laughs indignity that we put on the people. It's not the only one but we culturally still are a long way from treating it fairly much less celebrating it. I give a big shout out to jane fonda. I just think she's the hottest thing going and when she walks out with their gray hair now. She's inspired me to go all gray during the pandemic my blonde dyed hair. Go and now. I'm going to be silver for the rest of my life. So people encounter that and so it stymies them. Minute discourages them. So that's one big thing. We run up against how to navigate new networks. New pathways is a big one because people generally come out of one set of networks and they want to get into another. So how do you do that. That's where we use marci's book Encore career handbook to talk about how to present yourself into new networks and don't be afraid to network the other thing is people are a little timid about trying things and i tell them that one of the things we're doing in this class is to find the clues for our own personal space as a on carista as we call it and one way we do that is to find out what doesn't work so we really want to encourage people to take little steps. Make some choices. Try something if you think you've always wanted to volunteer with kids. Give it a try. You may hate it but you'll know don't be afraid to try something and kind of expect it not to be perfect. You know manage your expectations. And then i find that. A lot of people have to navigate relationship issues marriages deaths and caregiving. It comes in an interrupt. As marcy puts life gets in the way and we have not solved caregiving in this country. At all we had to monetize the medical costs of caregiving. It would break the bank in this country. We have an awful lot of women mostly spending productive hours in caregiving that are sapping them dearly. That is a version of what young mothers go through raising kids while they're working somewhere. There's an opportunity in those shared caregiving issues. I don't know what it is. But those are the most of the challenges that i see the intergenerational aspect couple times for four of the pleasure of being able to work with you on the core networks multigenerational roundtable but the first time had cardio was an event in new york city. There is run by shirley job at circle. Ci arcade which is such an innovative organization. Curious if you tell us a little bit about the interracial mentoring you've done with circle. Yeah it's funny just before. I got on this podcast. I had a conversation with one of my circle. Friends who. I've met through the mentoring program at circle. I love circle. I think onto something i think she's raves to go out on the hustings and raise money for an effort like this to bring generations into a kind of sharing mode is not mentoring as much as sharing our stories in. I was on the phone this morning with heather dole and who i met several months ago. And we've been meeting and talking almost every week. She works full-time. She works for a outplacement firm. Gray christmas the big one. One of the big one and she's working remotely now. She's got three kids at home a teenager and a eight year old a little one six years old marriage. she's got an identical twin sister that she's obviously really tight with her mother. Her father's passed away so she's got a very rich light and the first time we met she said to me. This is gonna sound weird. And don't think i'm weird but i have a feeling we met in a previous life and she told me that she is been very interested in past life. Shen therapy written by a guy by the name of brian wice. He's kind of the guru of this. So i read it. I've done these exercises that she does where you are essentially hypnotized in you attempt to identify whether you've had some past lives and it's fascinating and i have every reason to believe in this concept you know it's not a religious concept it's a. I've had those experiences where i walked into a place and i said i think i've been here before it feels familiar. Sometimes people feel familiar. I've read a lot about memory recently. Because i'm writing a memoir in the whole science of memory that each of us has a unique heart of our brain. That only we have now because it's based on everything. We've read every person we've met ever experienced we've had it's not like anybody else's and memory. I've read the science of it from eric. Kandel he's the guy won the nobel prize for this. He said that basically memory is created by an electric impulse learning knowledge electric impulse. That triggers a chemical response end depending on the power of the electrical implant or pulse. More chemical get in that creates differences in long term memory in short term memory and the chemical her house. Emotion gives it meaning. It gives meaning that lasts but it's a chemical caused caused by an electrical signal. Wow that's pretty cool. So memory is our life our life is memory and what that meaning is so. Why wouldn't that have been developed. In other circumstances. I did do the exercise. That dr weiss. Who's a yale trained psychiatrist with like the fellow from yale who was a neurologist or neurosurgeon who had a near death experience and saw heaven. He wrote the book called proof of heaven. I read that too. I have no reason to discount it. He talked to hundreds of people who've had near death experiences. Do i discount that from a yale. Trained neurosurgeon no. I don't actually so these things in our so. Heather introduced me to that and it was a gift. I introduced her to encore. And she's referring her clients outplacement clients to some of the things. I've trained so i i love her. I mean i've met other people who wanted help and learning how to get onto nonprofit that i can help but then another one who was very current music. She got man to hold new music scene. And of course. I've known jonathan from that program. We know from the roundtable and i loved that young man because he wants to talk not a lot of young men do and he likes talking to me and i bothered him a lot during the election. I wanted to know what people in their early thirties. Were thinking about politics. And i was living with an outrage a day and most of the time he was cool and calm because he wasn't into it the way i was and i was actually relieved for him because he hasn't worked as a long term partner. He has an apartment to take care of. You doesn't need to be vexed every day by the outrages of the last administration was pretty good if you only have one outrage for the that's a great about something but i think it was great the horror multigenerational roundtable that you brought in the generation and really made it much. The i did that because those three people in that roundtable of the diner town of us made it completely different. I think we ended up. We would have just been blabbing about being old. She mentioned memory. And one thing that i think we're all looking forward to becoming quarter memory will be there. Forever is the pandemic. I'm curious about. What key lessons you learn personally during the pandemic well. That's interesting. i did say too early. I feel like i was born for this pandemic. Because i realize that i am very comfortable in my own skin. I'm by myself. That doesn't mean that. I don't like to but i feel like it's slowed my life down to a better balanced actually between inner and outer stuff and that i don't wanna lose during the pandemic had an excuse to not go out now. I have to like say no going to stay home tonight or whatever so that. That's one thing. I miss my family. I miss the intimacy children now. My son passed away six years ago. So i have seven nieces and one nephew and then some of the nieces are starting to have children. So i have two grand nephews in like eight ten six so i have a big crowd and i'm really close to my siblings and i've gotten closer and the pandemic has even sharpen that up. I am blessed with healthy siblings. I'm the oldest one on the bossy one. I sort of organize the sibling thing. But it that. I learned just how important they are. I mean they always were but that's venture and then good. Friendships have actually gotten deeper. I don't miss going to events. You know a. I've been to enough of them at the waldorf astoria for like charities. I ever have to do that again. I hope i don't get caught up in doing things that i don't feel i want to do but i feel like i have to. Do i want to give up a lot of the half to do stuff. And i think the world needs to think through things like business in tourism. I i live part time here in hawaii now and there's a lot of conversation about cap the tourism because we have loved it here without tourists in we all got waikiki back and i don't know what will happen. There's also hawaii had the worst economic fallout from the pandemic. They did very well keeping covert at bay because they shut the airport stone bud. The economy is eighty percent tourism. It shouldn't be you know that. So i'm hoping there's always talk here about trying to diversify the economy and i- i lament the loss of restaurant time with friends that i had in my life in new york. I saved a lot of money by not putting up my visa card. Every time i had a dinner but i'm really that's been in. That was a lot of that in the theater. Where my socialization so. I'm really dreading what we've lost with restaurants and theater. That will never come back so he eventually they will maybe not in my lifetime. I can't say i've got very into how art in theater and performance evolved is. Somehow it just didn't i just can't watch ballet on my computer. I can't. it's not the same thing. So i have loved live performance so not having that has been really hard and i pray that we support the and pray that the feds come up with money for the arts at come because they are for new york. It's our economy too. So there's you know teaching. I don't wanna teach Hundred person class on that sounds awful but ten people who live around the country would never be in the same room. That's worked out better than i ever expected. I've had you have to adapt and it's not perfect in a perfect world. I would do a hybrid. I would teach my class starting with the weekend. Like a friday night and saturday in person and then i would do the rest of down to the benefits of i would want pay to fly people in were were they were then go home and do it on the valerie. Perfect with what's one thing you want to keep doing. Post the pandemic. What's one thing you want to look up and wanna keep reading. I have forced myself. I've created a little rule. I have to read fifty pages a day on that depending on what i'm reading that can be fifty pages of eric. Kendall's making numerous was hard. Because he had this worm that he used to study brain activity. And i had to skip a lot of the worm stuff but historians a refugee jewish refugee coming here surviving and becoming nobel prize under that was wonderful. Anyway i wanna keep reading. I want to keep my family front and center. I think i'm i'm writing this memoir my nieces because it's a tale of a girl. It's a woman. The girl in a woman and there are things. I hope they learn. Sooner than i learned things like the value of compound interest is the eighth wonder of the world. Because that way you can afford to retire. You start saving early. So that's my man. I certainly want to give up inconsequential gatherings. That's what i want to give up. I'll send a check. I feel i've often felt a lot of burden to do those kinds of things to show my support. I gotta figure out other ways to show my support because other people go to the event. I don't need one more event. So i do want to keep religious about that my experience on the round table and also being part of two different book clubs one book club writing club here in hawaii has taught me that real gift of kind of small gatherings in different people but they've become different nodes in my network and i really like that and it keeps me. I'm not in charge. I love not being in charge. So i like to be one of ten kinda bossy still and i know things so i kind of do my thing because i liked things to happen and thanks to go forward kind of good at keeping things going but i don't wanna be in charge. I want to give that up so number of people. Listen to our podcast are coming up on retirement. Or they're just in retirement and they're not done yet. They're thinking about corker. What advice would you offer them. Business earn experience retrieved through well mainly because of the class. I wanted to teach. It came from doing some reading ahead of time so anybody who asked me that question each them get. The book transitions by william bridges. And start thinking about endings. That's the first stage in his three stage process and one of the things. I learned from reading his book. And this is i wasn't very good at endings. I like to just say it's overdone. Go on forget about it but you really need to take the learning out of a good ending and learn to live with it. Ingred it and be prepared for changes. That aren't all wonderful. You have to get very realistic but then get some dreaming. One of the things that bridges did for me was he said at the near the end. It was book. Pay attention to your dreams. Pay attention to those little flashes. And that's where. I remember having these little images of being in a classroom. And that's when serene gave me that serendipity moment about did i wanna teach in white what the other half of the students at seminary do that connected with that dream. I think that's great advice. So read that book think about concluding that stage almost have a ritual for how you finish that stage but start to put some things in place that you dabble with. I had one student wants who had this wonderful model. She was a retired judge. She was exhausted when she retired. She just wanted to drop dead. It the intensity that commute the judge and she said. I just really interested in what's going on with the environment. I have paid attention. And she just started to listen to read to go to places she said. I'm not in a hurry. i don't feel any pressure. And now she is one of the climate reality spokespeople for al gore and. She's running program at croton on hudson her home community to make carbon neutral by twenty twenty or whatever twenty thirty forty whatever it is but she had faith than if she stayed in this learning mode. It would be something would appear for her. I loved that story. And i tell it to a lot of my students who feel anxious. The men are more anxious than the women and one of the things that bridges says. Is you have to live with ambiguity in that second stage which he calls the neutral zone. That can be a couple years where you try things. Don't try so it's a wonderful stage but it's really scary if you get into the mode of that kind of three stage model ending neutral zone new beginning that bridges talks about and you have managed expectations. It can be a really good time. The hardest thing is when people struggle with health and finances. The rest of us have neither of that. We are blessed and we should never take it for granted. Great advice thank you so much. Thank you for agreeing conversation. Missile help many people and highlighted something valuable pearls of wisdom near thank you my pleasure and it's always my pleasure to be with you joe and encourage you to keep up your important work. Iraqi voice annakie example of beyond guard movement. So thank you so much really appreciate wouldn't taking time to share her insights and wisdom with us. Lots of great ideas a lot of great points that she made. I'd like to spend a couple minutes highlighting in underscoring three of them that i think might be useful to think about the first. Is her comments about the transition to retirement being one of those seminal. Life moments in fact retirements the tenth most stressful life event. But she notes it's also catalyst and it's a catalyst for many people to narrow their focus and go deeper on the things that really matter most. So what's up for you. What's a list of things you may have put to the side and didn't have the chance to or didn't give proper attention to as you'd like. What are those things explore. What are those things you want to engage. More deeply with point to her comments about revisiting. The work of william bridges in particular about endings. The event is not the ending. It's a three phase process and it really makes sense to pay attention to the whole process of the ending in getting to the next phase reminded me of the book by richard roar. Falling upward talks about how japanese soldiers were having a difficult time coming back from the war until someone realized they needed a ritual ritual the mark. The ending of that face delineated. Clearly and i'll pave the way for the transition to the next phase of life. And i love her vice achier laid from bridges about pay attention to your dreams and in particular those flashes that might give you a glimpse what your future could be in a might just inspire you to pursue something new in different pathway and finally point three networking your contacts from your career will be very helpful. But they might not be exactly enough. We want to cultivate some new networks. Some new relationships and build a new tribe. That may help you get to a different destination. Might take some different folks. It's gonna meet new. People want to be strategic about it but also be open to things as they develop. So it's worth taking a look at your network one of our other podcast guests. Kelly ho. He had a great Comment about this. But evaluating the breath and depth of your network or as a strong work to be better and as you think about your future where do you need to baby cultivates new relationships in some new connections. You'll find ruth woods full bio in our show notes along with a wink to the program. She talked about that. She created in runs at union. Theological seminary new york city. Sounds like it'll be a great resource for many people. So i encourage you check that out and thank you for listening to retire wisdom podcast. Our mission is to help. People retire smarter by bouncing their retirement. Planning with the nonfinancial side. Retiring ken seem like the end. But it's not it's actually the beginning the beginning of your next chapter so pays to be smart about it. Dedicate time attention in leveraged resource to help you get to where you really want to go next. Thank you for joining us today. On the retirement. Wisdom podcast you can listen to all episodes of our podcast by subscribing to them on apple. Podcasts google podcasts. Spotify stitcher or on our website at retirement wisdom dot com.

Ruth wooden mike belan richard roth cyrus vance Daniel yankelovich senator bill bradley ruth Mike class minneapolis institute of art mcconnell clark foundation mark friedman margaret mark grad school eric erikson william bridges porter novelli judith minneapolis marciel joan chichester William bridges
Ween Cast Episode 14, Live in Chicago With Our Friend Mike

Ween Cast

1:33:05 hr | 2 years ago

Ween Cast Episode 14, Live in Chicago With Our Friend Mike

"News gobble we can we podcast for you save hey this is shane mrs rory and this is leeann cast and we welcome you to a new episode welcome back listeners a he's had a couple of months off and we've had a couple of new developments for the show first of all we wanna say thank you to our friend brian for hooking up with a new thumbnail in some new artwork an it's totally awesome because it looks professional it looks real he's a great digital artist and if you're interested in some detail artwork let me know and i could hook you up with him so thank you so much so brian were hooking up with some real looking artwork finally yeah man thanks brian it looks great it's also anes were using the new thumbnails for our new you to channel we finally have an actual dedicated you to channel for the show it's something that i've been meaning to do for a long time and finally got off my ass in and got it done 'em another one of those projects that it really is no big deal once you start actually doing it and figuring it out it's one of those things that i just kind of building up in my mind oh man that's gonna be way too hard to do and you know i i'm not looking forward to that and blah blah blah and once i actually started doing it was like oh this isn't so bad so it's a lot of unnecessary anxiety yeah you know it's one of those kind of things so were so were were so glad that everything in one place and it's just be actual podcast episodes 'em i haven't fully a flush it out yet and tweeted out yet but probably gonna have some like favorites if some of these other a we related videos that i've made a over the last few years and just sort of so they're all available from that channel but the all of the the podcast episodes are together on that channel so it's great and we look forward to doing a lot more with that so yeah look looks good man shot out to yourself oh thank work a yeah that's gonna be great i made it were were like i said it was one of those things i should have done a long time ago but just kind of built it up to be this huge project and it really wasn't so bad it's or youtubers ashley one of those things where 'em it's a it's something you could do a little bit at a time and it's you know you you could always go back and an edit videos and you're a you know descriptions and stuff like that so a it's a work in progress still but it it's it's coming around really nicely so this episode we really wanna do something different and we were kicking around this idea for a long time we talked about having 'em guests on the show on and off for a while anes i think a roar you could agree with me when i say the first guest we knew would be are friend much yeah you know i he 'em he's an old friend of ours as we go back a long ways and and i knew that he would have some some great wayne stories the tell a there were few podcasts where he was at the same show so so you know it was like you know winning that give him a chance to tell his story that he had something to say it seemed like there were so many episodes where we were we were talking about the shows that we had been to an end who came along with austin it just like are friend mike are frayed mike you know it just kept coming up and coming up 'em but he was lucky enough to attend one of the shows for the live in chicago a dvd and cd 'em which i was always really jealous about but i i do have to say i never really put in the time to research those shows sort of figure out like where they were what they played on which nights and like how the whole thing was constructed so it was really fun just sort of go back and have some this daljit for that time period ends get mike's take on the live in chicago shows a you know from someone who is actually there yeah it's a it's a time period a kind of represents say 'em sort of a tail end of a high point and in a in wing wing dumb unlike live weenen like you know their performance of their music a in my opinion and 'em and so it's great you know i never really gave this live album too much a play i guess i've always sort of pretentiously like it's like i only wanna listen to a live show if i was there you know and like yeah you know sometimes you know like like discount some of these ones that are you know prepackaged as it were yeah it was great for me to come in a little listen to it and you know in preparation for the podcast and and sort of rick gates revaluate 'em how i think about it in in what places in a in the annals of wing yeah absolutely and sort of that 'em that early quebec era you know quebec was new and the quebec that stuff was fresh at the time answer kind of like go back in and you know even though neither one of us were at the live chicago shows it was like i remember that time period and i remember being like excited cited for you know like those quebec shows and that's kind of that like you know that's kind of that era 'em so we had a we had a a very interesting a and really find 'em conversation with mike which we're gonna play the whole thing and 'em the majority of are conversation revolves around him as a fan and his these experiences but a specially his experience going to the saturday night show of live in chicago so should we go to the call now i first guest sprint to the podcast welcome mike thank you thanks for having me it is truly an honor and a privilege to be here a humble tripping on both i i wanna say investors short yeah we appreciate you being with us 'em i wanna say to might that you've always been like my number to go to a when it comes to wean like any kind kind of lean news that like i might find out i'm either gonna caller text lori and then i'm gonna call her cats mike well thank you i appreciate that traditionally narrative unfortunately i'm not is connected which we ended up like once was and i would also say that yeah 'em by mind we we brought your name up in a lot of are previous episodes 'em as just are frightened mike because you've been to a lot of shows us andy you're really be only other one that i could think of who is a friend from high school who instill like a a pretty solid we 'em yeah i think you're right because i think it's mainly just us three at this point so like you know show comes up all i don't have work yeah let's go yeah you know this point you know all the reunion show that they like you'd be only person that's been to them from lara original friend group in high school but we had any way you know and i'm excited to my to my memories about all the you know some of the shows and we've been to together and then also somebody other shows you've been to in particular eighty a live in chicago show which which will be getting to win a bit about a yeah i mean i really looking forward to it because i think as we get through this work at a trigger each other's memories the places we never thought we go back to so i put up the phone give us yeah that's been one of the things they the cathartic things about these podcasts actually just the process and looking back and thinking through sort of triggers memories and then you sort of think of things that you hadn't gone in like twenty years oh yeah absolutely well let's go all the way back to the beginning if a if we make 'em bone are very first episode which just worrying i we talked about the first times that we can't remember ever hearing we had all an do you have a memory of the first time you actually done all right yeah i actually to amory i have the memory of the first time i heard them and the first time and it really resonated with me like what this was okay so the first time i ever heard them breeze for combo kick in system oh yeah my school oh yeah two times in the trunk 'em and he played blue ladies for the first time i ever heard we know remember a valid because these larry's thing to me about that is it's pretty much the exact same like origin story i mean going forward embo well okay i think it would suck in ninety seven ninety six inch shane oh sorry go ahead no it would have been around the time i was working at weiss with him and i'm not sure if you were there yet who i for me was going home after volleyball practice it would have been around the same time but i did on leaving ninety six term he i believe it was the winter of ninety six it would have been around the same time for me onto well yeah i do know we were not the same car that you want only played volleyball so yeah no i don't think he wouldn't have gotten the ride home so so then hey so anymore you're what you're older what's you're a good memory that you had mentioned on another one where i hit you yeah we were all hanging out in front tim's house house and it was the first time i heard freedom of seventy six hours just like a shot a man on the path of awesome yeah those are good name wrong tree anti well you know you bring up a the chocolate and she's era there by 'em do you have a favorite studio album album well no i those are two different answers favorites studio album is god reinstating and it has nothing to do with the quality or the the music it's just i think it's the most reliable album to where we were at that point and i realize just how like if you listen to the songs towel like all over the place they are and that's just always been my service you know that's interesting point i think you have a good point there 'em indefens have gotten anything that's no yeah because you know that that's a that's a a very like teenage like album you know that's that album is very full on like the enke's i think got that are are album review a episode it's very 'em it as a lot of youth in it has even just sheer like a crazy teenager in that out milan somewhere whether the high point what about high pointed that out pretty well i mean i just love how it's all over the place like stop man 'em who who hasn't felt that way as a teenage boy and then you go to bumble bee which i think perfectly perfectly sums up what it's like to be stung by a baby and then you got to injuries yeah you got to el camino hooters one in el camino at that point in their life yeah i mean it's just great and if you if you did after hearing that song exotic yeah exactly yeah that makes me later but once you do do you have oh and so having slavery live album that a live it's subs okay tom and i can say pay in the town brown just because it wasn't one show it was pieces of different shows right above but light up and i hit my for live itself is my favorite 'em album that was available widespread right favor bootleg album but i am i allowed to talk about this yes of course okay oh dear miss storm loved it oh okay i can't i don't know if i ever really had that one but i remember i it was being passed around back then yeah you i think i got it i don't know about that i don't know about that 'cause i i was very big on the shows that i went to an end any everything else never really like latch on with me like i may have had a like a like a discarded but never really like played it a lot you know we always into like the the shows that i saw and you know listening to them a lot okay what i do i do remember the bootleg you're talking about yeah and you were always good about sending me a copy of the show so i thank you for that my pleasure my pleasure okay so so we have already talked about the first show that you were along with us which we've january ninety eight at the chocolate airline silly which is our podcast episode number for a year but i think you might have a story that i forgot about well yes he did something something else how long tradition so something else happened on the weight of the show okay 'em and it was on four twenty two it was bumpertobumper because at that time we were all kids unafraid of the turnpike so we went the wrong way sally now are frank corey who was driving at that he's collecting keep cube soda back of his car bombs so his girlfriend at the time was pounding mountain dew while we got stuck in traffic she had eight so we had the letter out of the car on the side of the road so she could pay while all the people around us were yelling honky godless and i like it drove me nuts listening to the episode at a year that start to say it's so good i think a i think it was right after we we've posted that episode and you you listen to it that you you know you were telling me i texted you right away yeah and i do i do remember that after after you know after you reminded me of it i did remember an i mean what mike he's talking about like you're talking about right outside of the city of philadelphia like just tons of cars like you know bumper to bumper traffic there is no way that anyone you know male or female is gonna get out of the car to take a p and not be seen by like a hundred people because you guys do the do yeah yeah i mean i respect her decision yeah well at the same time i would've made the same well i'll be frank mountain dew is all the way down that's neither here nor there yeah i mean it's it's it's kind of a it's kinda surprising to hear that story from a female perspective but it happened it happened but you are talking team to a bottle right right but anyone anyone who wants to listen to our conversation about that show is that it episode four of our podcast but is there anything else that you remember that was the first show you willing to is a loss tore a truck a darrow in philadelphia 'em anything else you wanna talk about from that show was that the becky wagner night oh boy i i think that was probably about things that i think it was the so i couldn't show okay yeah okay yeah i would be that would be the only thing but yeah i think you're right it was the second show 'cause i don't think they played anything from like what would be called white pepper at the ninety eight show i think it would either all like mollusc stuff before and then the next one day when he had seen was was new year's day a ninety nine at the track and then they played a few of those like new white cap yeah yeah they played well they played becky wagner uk pandy fackler 'em definitely played back to pay some that night and they might have played exactly where i'm at but i dunno those two shows run together right right 'em okay well about how many shows have you seen a lean altogether are some campbell and i think i will i was at nine out of ten of those words here that i know a few more about me a roaring i i was four out at tamworth you that sounds about right i would taste probably more than that but but yeah something like that got also you guys went to see several shows when i would either at penn state and just wasn't able to get out to sea shows or when i was in oregon so so definitely there's definitely a several years where they were show the people were going to that i wasn't able to remember there were several years worth of warren charles yeah right so well there's one show that mike was at that neither laurie or i were able to attend 'em that i i hope i can speak for murray and say that i'm really fucking jealous that she got the see this show and i i didn't i've only been me being a part of this a this weekend and the show is just awesome yeah no no someone that would that would in on that so so you saw the saturday night show that would have been filmed for live in chicago at the vic theater on november eighth two thousand and three and she had those quite some time ago so why don't you sort of set us up a little bit and talk about how how did you get to go to the show so you were you were living outside of chicago correct yes i had just moved to saint louis starting grad school and 'em my home page on the internet at the time you mayor not mayor may not remember this why decided it was chaco dog dot com or i believe god's net backslash wien so that was my own age you okay so not working updated much of what was it mattered in i happened to see what they were filming this a cd dvd combo in chicago and my girlfriend the time actually bought tickets for the show for the saturday night show totally yeah so you you a new already mentioned you were living in saint louis at the time right yes yeah yeah so how how far but trip was it how long how long but just do that then it's about a five hour drive okay 'em it's long enough to be paid about but not too long yeah yeah yeah it's not too far but i mean you're going to college so you're not fly up there and forgive me if i'm wrong here bully 'em you had access to hotels at the time yeah she was working for i believe louis sheridan at the time so she got discount rooms for us i pretty much anywhere we wanna and just pay the tax wow that's cleveland you were you were you living the baller lifestyle and that trip as bowlers could be you know pizza pizza all good players to shrink it had to be my first trip chicago i have yet to be to visit the windy city how howley chicago chicago great 'em you gotta less my second favorite city in this country love it what's number one sure what's number one it's gonna be unpopular well this this interview were begins easier so at this point of new york because of how easy it is to get to where lebron okay i think i see i'm hoping you were gonna face and she lives in saint louis figure favorites in east saint louis well that's there's a different set of criteria like looking at eighty five now i don't rod would be a while you were unless you want an efficient way now now wasn't forbidding i went to kansas city wants a good enough i know ben yeah and i'd i'd never been chicago chicago either so that that's the shit man on you know that's like it starts to it is that you were close enough that you know five hours is it's close enough that you could make that shot you know until now some that it was within that radius then you could go for it as a year ago we will talk about it we 'em all we have the dvd only need a like evidence of this is be live in chicago dvd so we we have some of the songs from the night that you were at but we have the list and man there's there's definitely a one off the song after another so this'll be so i'm excited to to get your input on on show went yeah well she should do a tribute to the satellites per solid the saturday show that that mike sure he won't meta yeah i'll go ahead and do we could start their items in but certainly a saturday show opens with the birthday boy opens with thin acoustic a mini set a birthday boy chocolate town tried and true demolish mutilated lips and then it goes back to a normal a fucking in green the stallion part three happy colored boggles the groom take me away transdermal celebration bootlegging exactly lee where i'm at and dan isn't below pork roll egg and cheese roses are free these are gifts mother fucking big jill i'll be you're johnny on the spot lost ocean man waving my taking the win you fucked up stroker's ace and all of my love a led zeppelin cover fat lenny booze me up and get me high spinal meningitis picks up the road the blarney stone sometimes we settlers seemed like they go on and on forever blarney stone in young core a doctor rock touched my tutor and when it storms amigo said that's it all comes down or yeah yeah thank you giving me the just seeing it on paper like brings a lot of bad well i mean that's a bad ass set list and 'em well let's let's talk about you know you're experienced a little bit first before we get into the overall thoughts in and whatnot so where where where were you for the show down on the floor leader light you described the seer like are yeah you eat i you know what the theater was like it was a lot like the map where we just were okay and i know it yeah it was about the same size setup about set up the same way 'em it had that same kind of feel about it i was just off camera unfortunately certainly on unless you're not getting bro i know i thought it was gonna happen but it then a second row in the balcony 'em i would have been to the right when they stand up to the bell to the left when they come up to the balconies stage right on through nearside it with john it was assigned seating yeah like you had sees me that's where you went okay yeah so whenever seats on the floor yeah okay yeah it'll be like all of those people in the ac the dvd they're just standing up yeah yeah knows we all see to it was i mean it was an old school sitter okay cool cool 'em yeah 'cause you can't really radical gives me a now is a great place so similar to that yeah yeah you don't really old we'll you can't really tell from the from the dvd that there's seats on the floor 'cause i i kinda thought it would have just been like open floor and then like the two balconies 'em but you know it makes sense that if it was a cedar scott seats speeds through the whole thing you know before i went to that and you know sound a virtuous playing some bars saint louis oh wow that and this is no fucking lie there were twelve people this show one of which oh yeah was a guy wearing that seal leading shirt but you guys all had the green going without one yeah yeah yeah all right this is thursday night so saturday night i walk up the steps 'cause we were seated in the balcony and who do i see they ended up to the bar wearing the same damn shark the guy from the sound emerging concert night who nights prior awesome so you really like visible that there's cameras according to start you couldn't see the cameras only time that like like they mentioned it here in their 'em those one time they stopped to reposition like halfway through the show and he was all kinds of fucked up so more diener a junior diener while they both war but jeeter went backstage and diener 'em decides he's gonna pull out of the ball sack for everyone to see you know that that got caught 'em yeah it's funny you couldn't hear i forgot who is glad or that it was either leonard dave yelled out every guate work in the crowd you couldn't really you couldn't see the cameras from where you know i never saw them i never noticed some all night so i i imagine they were behind me next to me based on abused 'cause i lost dvd this week but none you really never notice wow so i mean yeah like even though it seems like the cameras would have been like light up like right right in front of the stage they're probably back 'em like under the balcony towards like they eat a the back and they were just you know austin cameras neck and just you know yeah and i'd say they're off to the side to either side right but you have to remember like like yeah i'm there for a dvd taping but like i'm focused on the show show like i'm not really paying attention and two were there yeah you're right you're not worrying about being sherlock holmes like you know you investigating where the where the cameras are there like where they've gotten this sean from so i could break down the dvd later come claim on the blog i should've they should've year one yeah or some podcast you know twenty years later you don't go well i might go there will be oh well the one thing that i'll say about a sort of like the whole thing is for the longest time in this was rooted in a lot of jealousy again being fat and you saw one of these shows and i didn't i will always under the impression that they played two nights would be exact same sat last men just pick the songs like a better version of each one of the songs what they want for the dvd and see how did not the king is no yeah it's far from the k yeah i i was always under that impression pressure to until you brought that to my attention right now so i'm guessing they just wore the same outfits two nights in a row that would make you say when you when you're rock and rollers that's a hard big dinner plate at different guitar on the two did you catch that oh that's great to know do oh man you know half the song stickers on his these are the soggy does yeah so first of all he has like that from qatar ahah 'em it's very i mean i i didn't really i i wouldn't necessarily say that that is 'em but that means that he was playing one guitar one night at one 'cause i think for some song i think for some songs switch guitars thought maybe that that serves to or any swisher guitars and sometimes would be did right right i could have been it could've been in between swaps like a guy tax issue well one of the interesting things in in preparing for this podcast was going through the live in chicago that list and then comparing it data on brown based 'em kind of figure out which night some very strong pain from because we could see that you know a whole bunch of different one came from the night that you were at and so that's why i was really interested they put if you if you still have some i'm so long ago because it's like i was wondering also do you have memories beyond the songs that are from the dvd 'em because it's kind like it's interesting like this the dvd is having to remind myself it wasn't it's not a live show it's alive dvd you know apple together and so i'm wondering if by hearing pieces of it that came from the night you were at if that helps illuminates other pieces or you that 'em unfortunately lost the sands of time at this point i don't think there's any recor sam you know i that's available to the public anyway yeah no i wasn't looking nearly ninety m so i took a look at the sadler skin here's a song rice guard that i can remember like closed my eyes and picture them happening all right so i had birthday boy chocolate town tried and true trends terminal celebration exactly where i'm at rosen's free you fucked up all of my love blues me up and got me high and win a florida is amigo ending opening birthday boy and ending with sort of starting to mingo it's pretty awesome yeah and chocolate town in tried and true were news a lot of new to me at the time and those were two songs that i just really love who's just like again either three song opener 'em yeah that would only the beginnings of those being played right the good that was put back into that was leaving eleven time a chocolate towns play the twenty first time the tried and true is played how's that for you having it'd be like a be like acoustic little mini stack just start off the show it was crazy like it was completely unexpected i'd never seen anything like that to open the show with them before 'cause i up to that point they usually opened up was like kind of like a a lean bangers song you fucked up but like nineteen ninety nine the one i take take me away what's come a point and right not open shows so it looks different it was no yeah and i wanna say that i think the following year i saw show that had that many acoustic that going on and i don't know if this weekend for the first time that they sort of played around with that chain i don't know if you have any going that i'm wondering like i wonder if the chicago is i wonder if there was some thought just saying oh it's gonna be first cbd let's kinda pull out all the stops and like sooner cruising thing i know a couple of days like sort of starting to do more more i i would i would have to go back and look at the gate but i remember i was lucky enough to be at a couple of the shows where they played some of the stuff for the first time and i think that was sort of a thing that came along we it's like a the premiere of like the quebec stuff if if you will so i can't remember if it was that senior or if it was from a like two thousand two you know quebec comes out in two thousand three 'em summer of two thousand three and then the show that were talking off live in chicago was a is that a november so either like be like the fall of two thousand two or like early in the year of two thousand three i'd have to go back and look at the dates 'em but it was sort of a thing that was a starting around the beginning of the quebec songs no they had to find it by the time this show rolls around you know it's been done enough times that like they had their shit together 'em by you know it's pretty true that if you hadn't seen any of like the quebec shows until now you know like it would have been new i you know at that time yeah well three awesome yeah stepping down you know it's really cool to see them come down and i and i just think it's interesting the kind of affect back in have opened a show like that you know like just pretty introspective just sat down with these acoustic guitar and open the show with birthday boy yeah 'cause shane 'em didn't really see them do that's a couple of times but like more towards the middle of this show yeah i mean i like i don't think you rolling are something wrong yeah and i think that you and i saw on the show at the tower theater which was didn't throw a couple years later but i remember they had some acoustic a song stirring nacho so it's sort of like one of those things that you know like started in this era would continue on until like now real today really i mean they don't do it on every show 'em by you know to get like a little like a coup stick 'em set or or you know a few songs in a row she will now he's not to uncommon so this is really like the beginning of that i don't think it's something that is commonly opened this you know so that's definitely like a standout the fact that they started the show with you who said nah nah i don't think that is very common at all no i i agree with you because every show i've to either team came out rockets are played something really fun for you know interrupting i'm looking at the set list and the first song that's played after de acoustic mini sent his fucking game green which is totally like standard opener kind of song right yeah you know it might it might have been something to do this 'em like the levels there's something like okay duty acoustic songs first because that's a different like von you i you know i don't know i know that any like yeah i'm just off but you can like yeah right so so you could probably be right that you're opening a can of worms you're all but no no doubt i mean they're only employed by all means but no i wouldn't leave a mini sat acoustic done first for a production logistics for the dvd yeah i'm gonna i would i would have to assume that because then after that it's just all the straight up you know regular wien rocketing soon so you kind of assume that they would be like okay well do those first and then will get the fucking shit out and then went just you know can't do that for the rest of the evening 'em but it but yeah that is i don't think that they normally did that at all with duty acoustic stouffer so we always he's like through out the night somewhere you know like halfway through towards yeah i gotcha so that handle some some other things 'em i was wondering so but it starts amigo i was wondering if you remember much about that so i remember some shows around that same general time period i'm having a hard time remembering exactly which shows are what they said well you know three or four bottom where junior actually had a solo on the guitar as well in the middle of the song and i was wondering if you remember if that happened this this show here 'em 'cause what shame what a shame that didn't make a dvd i don't i don't recollect a i think it was all diener yeah it's just like the like power so low at the end gotcha him judge signed a memory yeah no you're not essentially when we get to this yeah over show anything yeah but from what i remember the show up and going on so long it into like a thirty minute leno start as it was like standard issue like ten twelve minutes yeah well you know thirty three on touch my shooters in court to man yeah so that's a lot yeah i mean there's there's a lot of great stuff that's played at the saturday show that you were at mike that you know we know now comparing where the sunday night set last was specifically played on saturday and made it onto the dvd so would you mind if i listed those songs for it and go for it okay so go up porco egg and cheese is specifically from saturday a the grow transferring the celebration related lips chocolate town johnny on the spot touch my tutor a ocean man all my love a big genome who's behind in blarney stone there are still a little black i got audio and video evidence that suggested there also on saturday but i'm not a hundred percent certain that take me away and 'em and then also the loss of will be i mean that is that is so cool and a so like that is so cool that you know when you're when you're watching the dvd you know that some of those songs are specifically from that night that you saw yeah i just think that's awesome in you know not not the cut toured z a torch the end of the night or end of the of the dvd but you know they played all my law firm that's going on saturday night with iraq and that fuckers on yes i do a that's just sales all yeah so that's one thing that stands out from that show 'em walking in the band you know people talk in like you know i heard i heard they're doing all of my law by lead so there's like a positive like this song comment and when dave goes into that keyboard solo fucking around and then out of the or they just break into it in the crowd goes nuts but that that song and for some reason transdermal celebration sticks what's being firm that like those is the main to yeah that's awesome 'em wealth an off that's in austin song a and a and you're totally right i plan on the keys opening that up is just like awesome and then you don't what we do but then it's like you know it's almost like he's in like a like a church you know playing neil creek like pipes and it's like oddly moto coming down from the earlier the goes on no no let it go in and then it's like all my love and it's it's definitely a seeing it on on your set list but then also the dvd that's high point shore off and just one thing i would like to say one critique of the whole project i needed that on the cd to it sucked cbd and everytime i want to hear that song for years right right of well let's let's get to that in a in a second but just just just sitting there with all my love for say the factory macy onto the dvd is a it's it's cool as hell don't get me wrong i'm glad it's on there but it kind of makes you wonder like what's going on behind the scenes on now because like we said there's plenty of we materials and both of those nights pick from an and yet they include that on the dvd anes we would have to assume that wasn't cheap you know someone's gotta take a percentage of something i'm sure to be able to use the led zeppelin song on that dvd you know we have i think that some of them you know saying hey let's let's let's put in like a little bit of a pop song they could be audience interest and then they're like oh there's gonna be all my love on that you know i've been playing on sampling or or maybe just maybe the average a person who doesn't really know too much about we might get a little bit more interested if they know that they could pull off a led zeppelin tune anyplace lawless i don't know you know a big i mean it could be that they could have just like playing it was labeled wherever they were playing so this is like a sanctuary record's project okay because quebec on sanctuary and this is sort of like they did to promote pulled back you know what i mean of course those labels in picked us up like lincoln about i well i would assume that they did because you know it's i'm i'm pretty sure the dvd is is need by sanctuary wreck okay so i mean i don't think it's actually coming out of a junior juniors years pocket i don't know what i'm looking at other why wouldn't you do that right and i can tell you that on but the song all my love within heavy circulation that ball yes playing the crap out of that to be dictated ever in their history it's only been played fifteen total times well that was like time like they've been playing it like throughout the fall right right well that was sort of like the token cover for like that like time period now i'm like you know hot for teacher they played for a while and then later on a few years after a after this would be like david bowie 'em you know so there's sort of like oh you enter sandman came in there a i think that was before this will will will get you that another episode but but yeah i think that all of my local sort of like the token covers up they were playing like at the time yeah but the fact of the wind supplement dvd's really fucking cool yeah dude on the dvd a big she all is on the dvd and you're there now one of the words that with all of the big rarity 'em really from that night and then you're probably be molly's just fades now i know robbie one dollar to not only the legal mowing the big news of the day summer again but you know god damn thing about america through all the title we're last my my critique of the the weekend and up the dvd there's not a lot of like really rare stuff on it but jonah is definitely one of those cases that's definitely a pretty pretty rare song here live so i told me out and you have that you know the the dvd's grain but it's not always very brown's like you when you put this on on on there then it grounds oxy album you know like if rounds up the the dvd so it's pretty awesome medical we're well if there's one song that looking at the sunday play list i am disappointed but i did not get to see that was not on the dvd and that would be porter rican power yeah so i mean that's you know that brings up a general general point which which is good for discussion there is this you know there's plenty of great songs from both nice if they did not put on a dvd and like why not why not porter rican out right yeah that's awesome now here comes a day is all yeah i'm usually yes that one travelled out fantasy yes a long thirty one if you could so if you're self service all yeah i mean there's a lot along m that will play that we could network on a dvd not necessarily have any particular problem with any of the songs on a dvd you know i do have to say i don't laugh is also really rare take on this a on the night that you were at a i'm sorry i don't wanna pitch from sunday a kind of but that's really one to accept knowing junior forget the word section bird and it's it's called it that makes it on there even though you know i forgot where i forgot andy lack new man that you're let's say you're i would run zona by the usual do you think i know so are we talking about like how they format it everything how they released but 'em what would you guys pay for three dvd all three shows a third time the whole the whole weekend on dvd yeah right now okay i would say at the i it's not my right yeah okay right now independent right now yeah right right now i'm a i'm a grown man with three children okay so i'd probably not to say i wouldn't spend a good chunk of change i i would i would still probably spend like thirty forty dollars fifty dollars maybe i'd be i'd be will end in the fifty fifty range sixteen yeah oh yeah i'm just i'm just thirty nine ninety five so world in the ballpark of any reason why they can't do this and just collects free money so if there is if they're listening they should do this i'm just throwing it out there are many things that came out at wyoming whatever i think what you're saying is a legitimate jets thing especially with this reunion because 'em you know one of the things about the reunion is you know there's the money aspect where it's like okay we could make some money again and i'm fine with that you know you're fine with that but like that's exactly he's like okay guys just throw those three nights in fucking packaging and let us buying something good we will we will we will on your pocket money who made this product you buy it okay so a couple of a couple things i would say about that is like a sort of a live in chicago dvd it's like okay yes it may not have like everything from like both of those nights but you gotta figure they're trying to they're trying to and i feel like they did a good job of appealing to like 'em people who may not know doing okay people who who may just be introduced to them from the dvd all right hand like hardcore fans so there's a couple of tunes on there like you mentioned like don't laugh you know that's more like a deep cut torque vn 'em cheat fucks me which is from sunday night i think i've only ever seen that a lot and then they a better man show crawl to live saturday we had two kids she do she saw a man on great one yes so here i know we we could we could be talking on it but like i feel like they did a pretty good job of like having a you know a a guy like stablishment i i i i i'm gonna you change when you change my mind because i do feel like this this dvd is just a wide wide range there is one exception which will get to in a second but it's a wide range of what we need is and you're right i mean big general she fucks me i mean you fucked up i mean you do have swear words in the title of the song that's kinda brown you know in the show i'm do you have to get behind blarney stone still like so yeah so they are getting brown and there's a wide variety only omission embarrassing on a dvd there's not a single song song from a golden country great yeah the country album yeah the mike the nicer you solomon saturday they played up a rope i don't know if they played they play any country song on sunday a mixture of richard smoker or maybe with japanese cowboy on either one of them nights a week on his son sunday night waving my taken away that sort of richards while we've been taking the winds from the moment you're right sorry away and it might being stupid no you're not you're you're you're right i'm wrong about mister rogers smoker so you do have looks like there's two country song played that weekend and they either of them on you know it's interesting i feel like it took them a while to get comfortable owning those without the country being back you know like right they don't play tons of country album songs like all right you know kind of like shouldn't higher on that so reflections on time but it is it is a shame that like otherwise this dvd just has a wide variety i was listening to this on you to list with a my wife and just like she kept commenting on like wow one great song after another like it's totally almost like a a greatest hits i feel like it's almost like a greatest take lash favor of the band you know i almost feel like some of these songs on there because it's like oh diener wanted on there i don't know if that's true or not you know i don't know how much control they have it on the action gets but you know what i was gonna say is i think you're right and then she looked at other concert dvd's were calling out around this time it was the same kind of thing where we should have a righty of the bank and so right think that's just kind of what you had to release all right now i'm definitely wanna say a less anyone thinks i'm out there criticizing us 'cause i don't wanna i don't want that to be case because when listen to this listen to a couple of times over the last couple of weeks every song is done really well i can't really find the detention of junior forgetting the lyrics and don't laugh you can't really find any issues would be a dvd i mean they're just amazing caught and a lot of the time especially diener is just on fire like song after song song just like fingers of going faster than ever before like stevie ray vaughan born again 'em you know rising from the ashes of the helicopter crash or whatever it was i mean you just song after song which is really well done i know you're gonna cut you offer a second here oh porn go no just saying be in there that night that i was there a dinner was on fire fire like his guitar was just so powerful like he definitely was the mvp of that show yeah you know and that's awesome to hear 'em position on the dvd if it's just representing every single song you just lays it out 'em are absolutely lady on duty lady i guess the dvd sunday i think 'em but 'em but he had crazy long solo solo like in the middle of it just goes on and on like right kind of that before that part where it kind of has that kitchen ask sort of part you know where they start starts in repetitive before they break into cnn but it's just i mean it's like the longest i don't think i've ever heard of version of lady was such a long solo i mean this is insane a famous still off to again yeah so off is that i changed in front of that i think i'm gonna come saturday night mike i think that was from the night you were there so i remember after eight eight eight eight eight going to and yeah no i totally do it again for conversation any other game watch the dvd over the weekend any see like oh yeah yeah i remember that awesome and it took me a little bit of chocolates now fermented my my other my criticism of of both things like you mentioned about how all of my love is on the dvd but not cd so you know for years and years and years you know it's like okay i put the cd on my ipod or i i put the cd cd book and i'm you know listen to that in the car or you know i'm pretty sure i even made made like a copy of the cd pussy original in the case they keep nice and make sure it's protected and then i would just almost eighty are of live in chicago so the one thing that always kind of confused he is i i never really like put together like are these the same songs from like the beaten okay but yes they are okay that's that's one of the things i realized going back and looking yes they are the same like cuts that are from the the dvd there's just less of them okay cd you only thing that kind of that kind of bothers me is they're not in the same for you know it's like you would kind of soom okay there might be things that are missing from the cd just you can't fit is much cds you can earn dvd but it would be in the same order as on the dvd so why they're in a different order that always sort of like threw me off well and that's one of the weird crazy things about the dvd is that the songs are in a different order then the way they're played during the saturday and sunday night well i mean that you could kind of forgive because they're they're they're teaching you know you're teaching the dvd together from both michael but if it's like it's not really the grove takes me away in train's journal celebration earl played saturday night in enroll in a row ninth tenth eleventh on road take me away insurance herman celebration but then for some reason on the dvd they start with us take me away and then go to the grow and then do trends journal celebration and it's like i'm wondering why they they didn't just let that be like you know like a moment of will show they keep breaking a barrier where like this isn't a live show and they were like this is like a created product you know like where piecing together like mike in science monster you know well maybe they took a page out of nirvana's book which was v unplugged cd lives in a different order from the mtv telecast a which was a different order from actual record k split songs i know i know that the sewage watch just want the whole suicide in whether or not whatever other pot use it as a podcast i'm not one of those waters i don't want to say one owner or well off i'll go let's go but yeah i just thought it was interesting how you know songs you know and so for example 'em buckingham green 'em way i'm sorry so i think mutilated lips and chocolate town are near the beginning of near ninety but then they played their put towards the beginning of the dvd you know it's like i just had should reminding myself like this isn't like this is they constructed flow of like how this is going on like the blarney stone is not part of the young core you're night but they put it in a v encore saint louis blues me up and give me i needed the song jersey encore now they're now they're only important the dvd somehow and then is it partly encore on the dvd but it is in real life so i don't know i i wanna throw that out to you and i i would think he does think about that i just something i noticed i mean like what i would guess is maybe they base that on energy from the crowd and they wanna like by by put in songs awarded the encore encore more energy from the crowd and it seemed like a more like city and you know what i'm saying yeah yeah could agree with that you know that's i mean that's my only terry shooters also a pretty brown took tractors well definitely you know 'em well unless you guys have anything else you wanna say about individual tracks all sorted do my like some asian of like the live in chicago paddled she'll make their way to the main away to college so so like i always had sort of like those like criticisms of live chicago you know like like we mentioned like oh it's not it's not a whole show it's like it's a compilation of those like two nights the cd is different from the from the dvd 'em you know all these sort of like felt that way i never you know like i said i never really went back and did the research into it so to figure out you know what we've done in the last few days we were preparing for the podcast and like which which songs from which tonight and and you know what we really didn't even mention that they also play friday night until this friday saturday sunny friday night was not recruited for the dvd at least not to are knowledge everything was supposedly from saturday and sunday through friday and the problem is that like you were saying like oh this would be playing a three night right right right so we'll just throw that in there and just so people know 'em aaron that's that's the only times if he says he played this theater in chicago is just those three nights they want they never came back that cedar avenue and that's it shows but anyway so like they're you criticize live in chicago as like a hardcore we'd fan i'm like i did and i still kind of do but i'm still very grateful that like it exists at all you know my eyes you would go ahead be it's just awesome that because it was intentionally made the production value is really good all right and and you couldn't tell them they're really playing a lot into their performance and they took the time to like make sure everything was like perfectly leveled i'm old and like everything was great right so like it's really a great recordings it's a great way to introduce people to lie for him because the quality is absolutely one of the reasons so mike you had mentioned in a why stubs office which was you know that's a that's a complete show that you know when you bought it originally it was three cds so that's basically like that's one long show is it'd be put onto threesies at that at that time by eight it wasn't really like readily available it was it was like a chaco dog release so however however shout out to our dog yeah so it's something that was like released by that and so herman you've actually like yeah you know i don't know but i'm sure it's just for far less than 'em you know something like five chicago so it's like live in chicago is the next thing that you would have been able to just like order from like you're record's shop or a tiny on his two thousand three you know you were it on amazon or like a couple of like things that you could order things over the music and dvd's on back then 'em so it's like there's was really the first thing that you could you could get that's like a professionally made live recording from queen scenes painting a town by you know what i mean like yeah the you know the hardcore fans got in on live it's a an you know we end up a lot in toronto there again where those those two things are you know that sort of like for like fans only because those were like chaco dog releases and they want a you know they want really like readily available like this would so it's like you you get hit with something like live in chicago at the time i mean this is made from real you know there's just professionally made live we you know andy as rare which is a rarity i mean like even as good as soon as the bootleg said i had at the time sounding this fucking blown out of the water oh no this is great i'm not criticizing that i am totally happy lord i'm grateful to have been there i'm just say more coming up on the twentieth anniversary of a couple years 'em that'd be that'd be a vinyl box that all three nights you dvd's on everyone's list when we i was talking about right now like i i'm happy to have the dvd's cd happy to have gone to the shows but you know where the style gic down so released the tape blowing in there's so many deep deep cuts that didn't make be actual dvd that may have weekend look if you consider friday saturday sunday as well there's only two bombs played over those three nights like there's just like that would just be amazing but yeah i'm just i'm just i'm just thinking it would be great like release all of it now 'em really great idea yeah i hope someone's listening at the mon sweaters yeah although i called you material yeah no i just think i would be great there's something whether yeah i mean it's it's actually earlier he unfortunately no no one is listening in i'm not sure how many people get this far into the park yeah right yeah 'em well you guys had anything else you wanna say about live in chicago we have a couple of other things we hit you know it in general i just wanna just say you know as far as my the nation that 'em i kind of looked down upon it a little bit back in the day i guess as more of a potential as a fan and realize now that like i agree with everything you said that you know it's just a really well produced live a performance so the quality of the songs it's just really good you know what i mean going back and listen to me it's like you can't there's no problem with any of it and you know it really does have a nuff pronounced off in a few rarity just enough to keep you satisfied but mostly just hit up all the hype highpoint high point you know in so i also think of it as you know one of the one of the ways the judge an album is like it's something that i used the introduced someone to life lean if i were to be like you know oh you wanna listen to wean here's a desk and that's gonna have a variety of music and it's gonna be well maybe you could hear it live right out but i think there's there's you know i think that it's just a fantastic dvd 'em i would say that there's not a lot of real true like gm better ashley on the dvd i think there's a few more that made the weekend like one of the stars of ego that didn't actually like big cbd so the dvd's kind of missing many like long like extended you know jams but nonetheless an awesome and also dvd absolutely so what you're saying they were kind of pigeonhole whole by the technology at the time or they wanna do a cd in one case the way it's presented the dvd right so they had the cut the gym shorts which thanks yeah it's i don't think it's any i don't think it's their fault or anyone all you need to keep hours longer something yeah because remember he came in one case well yeah dvd on one side a cd on other pigeonhole by that process as well i mean production questions coming the point you know yeah i you know influence be creative genius yeah you know so we should do logistics of weed cds release podcast i think people would be interested in that on that on that will come back around and you thought well anyway 'em on that note well we have a couple of other questions for you michael will believed to be a live in chicago a okay where it is and we have a couple of them where he won one more time thank you once again for sharing that with us 'cause yeah absolutely you know is often they got together that show what they can you know it's thank thank you for having me thank you for having this podcast survival place the sheriff sheriff william is the ties that bind wyoming my own all right so i saw two other quick questions for you here speaking of tied up that buying so a would you consider we need to be you're favorite band of all time 'em oh i don't have a favorite band of all time in there in my mount rushmore okay okay all that yeah i have a mount rushmore and then i have so others receiving votes and leeann is definitely on mount rushmore alright pace assuming it yeah i like that answer i liked that antic which on how lean on mount rushmore what's up which prejudice in we are i'm gonna give you my mount rushmore in no particular order and i can't wait for the simple reason box but i don't know all right so my top four bands wien grateful dead blind melon analysis james okay right here comes a rooster yeah all right well i i one last question last rory you're something else but i'll just hit michael protests so do you consider yourself to be team gene fourteen be some clarification on this one was we got not may not know who you are and i'm so many layers to this question if someone says look band you're life depends on it gotta make a decision team dean or team gene you know waffling you gotta go is one of the other team being patient in that scenario i thought you i thought you meant i thought we were gonna go deep worthless aspect of the breakup for while you can i mean you could make out any way you want i just mean like running to equivocate a we could talk about that another time a i'll keep it simple here tvd i love be ethic guitar tar solos yeah that's my favorite part of a winning show right on that's a great answer actually yeah i love i love the the austin guitar solos and i love and it's cool interviews in random and you know magazines like much like shit yeah i always love great content is provided over the years and i love the fact that he made me feel okay then i could wear just applied color to shirt and jeans every day of my life you write it doesn't have the house something yeah it doesn't have something on it could just be a plane color yeah yeah no nobody gets you know nobody gets sued over any kind of legal issues is there anything like that and you're you know you're you're like oh you're wearing great events cool team dean okay makes sense but yeah i i love it all right well unless you of anything else right no man that's like that's that's all i got a well we will say thank you mike again furby our first guest andrew perhaps i mean it's truly an honor yes sir for giving us some insight on the the live in chicago show which were still extremely jealous that you were at by i'm so glad that one of us was at one of those shows i'm happy to take one for the team on this one you know you sacrifice sacrifice of part of the team for the show had a lot of the other end you know film at eight seventeen years later whatever sixteen years later we remain so if anyone has any if anyone has any questions specifically from mike 'em just let me know and i'll put you in touch with him about that might that gold works if anyone else's aircraft show saturday show a dvd or any any one of those shows the bp look you're absolutely all right well thank you were you're like it will will catch you next time on the flip side among among all right so that was her phone call with mike we wanna say thank you to mike again for being our first guest and are first actual interview and it will greer man it's been real raw yeah it was great discussing the live in chicago weekend in dvd see with him yeah you know this this whole 'em soul experience you know going back and listen to be alive dvd and a lot of chicago dvd and now chatting with mike has really 'em i dunno giving me a lot of meta revaluate what i think of a dvd you know an and i have to say i kinda you know have mixed feelings about this dvd 'em you know i've already said you know some of these things but but it's kind of you know almost like a best of a bad and it's a there's not too many surprises prizes on here and there's not too many like big time jim out yeah you know and so you know like as an example the the the the real rarities on here are don't laugh i love you which is twenty twenty six times total all my love the led zeppelin cover fifteen times totally total ties played and she fox me seventy one times those that's those are all pretty rare really rare performances right so that's awesome awesome and i don't mean to overstate you know like my case 'cause i do see now i think mike helped convince me that there is more more here then i was giving it credit for a but but yeah so so that's what i mean like i i guess i feel like a you know this the dvd's actually a lot more well rounded then maybe i was giving a credit for a and there are some really deep cuts i mean anytime you got big jomon there a you know and then she fox fans like that's pretty awesome track well i mean it is it is kind of like okay so it's made from two different nights which i totally understand what you're saying and i feel the exact same way where it's like okay i would rather rather just listen to one complete show 'em you know my kid brought up during the phone calls live it stops five subs is one complete night 'em an you know it's it's really cool and and that's a great a that's a great live 'em released as well but like this is a pretty good example of like if you had all of these songs in one night that would be a good representation of alive we show you know 'em minus you know like you're saying maybe some of like the gym outs 'em granted by the end there's no golden country grates on here i think that is a glaring omissions one song on here yeah that's true 'em but it's like if you take if you take the whole you live in chicago dvd and say okay this was one whole night of you like this was one whole show 'em you know i wouldn't believe it there's enough a there's enough variety friday 'em over the course of the dvd to be like okay that would be a solid that would be a solid representation of live lean at that time yeah no absolutely no and then that's the thing is it's it's a great quality recordings and they play the songs really well so they it's a great it's a great listen yeah you know and it's certainly representative of wing in a way that you know you could pop percent at a party you know and it's like people you're just listening knowing like these a lot of the high points you're not gonna freak out anybody too much and 'em in you're showcasing a lot of great songs done really well so so that's pretty awesome you know the interesting thing some of the interesting things that that that i'm trying to wrestle with shane go along with what you're saying you know about those from two nights and so you know show has a flow to it as a feeling to it each person's experience when you're at the show has like a feeling in a flow you know like how you got there like the conditions heavier rival the conditions of you're presence you know and like you know all the things that are going on and that's all part of it you know and so when you're listening to a live show especially when you've been to then you kinda relive it but you can't do that with this you know yeah ends in each night there's interestingly they're totally songs and i'm like man why are why doesn't that make why did matt that make the the live the live a deep dvd you know like there's definitely some browner and some like great teams that are rare and would have been awesome to include in this dvd they clearly were trying to be like oh let's throw a lot of rarities on this let's you know let's let's blow everyone's minds knows more like let's put together like the best stuff yeah i have a few like a few like you know kind of really you know sort of hardcore things by but yeah you know i don't want to overstate that case there's a lot of riding it's done really well yeah right on right on well 'em yes that's are live in chicago conversation a m is there anybody out there who's also at these shows either saturday or sunday night that a that would like to say something if if so you know we'd love to hear your thoughts it's a more from the fried day if something happened on friday that's relevant yeah they are setting up the cameras or or you know you met the camera man man that's that's very true i mean you know if a if someone has a story that they'd like to tell about friday night we we'd love to hear it 'em it's at wien cast podcast on twitter and it's 'em we cast podcast at g mail send us an email hit us up on twitter 'em subscribe to be a you to channel as we mentioned wien cast podcast hit us up on i tunes man old school 'em spotify stitcher google play 'em i'd like to say wherever you get your podcasts tests if i may if there's somebody out there who likes a specific platform that this is not on i'd love to you this is getting like this is like an oscar acceptance speech and we have cut you off it's like i'm trying to figure out things were not on so i can get the show on it you know what i made a dude all i all i do defined oranges i have a podcast app and i think searches all the different things for me so i just type in wing cast on that and it pops up right on that's what i if it works it works you know that's what i'm that's what i wanna hear you know 'em so yeah man if there's anybody out there who is anything they wanna say hit us up we love hearing the comments we love hearing me a love facebook's there's a facebook group 'em we cast podcast there's also a week as podcast page like the page and joined the group 'em why not it's fun it's free write us a review on i tunes you know give us some love

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Episode 334  Pandemic Created Investment Opportunities with Big Mike

Casual Fridays REI

28:27 min | 5 months ago

Episode 334 Pandemic Created Investment Opportunities with Big Mike

"Welcome to the casual fridays. Rei podcasts where you'll learn about the wildly profitable mitch of planned investing active lane investors adam southie and justin sleep while are here to share their experiences with you so that you can learn how to build a massive cash flow and huge profits from this highly lucrative niche so without further. Ado here are your host. Adam southie and justice liba. Hey what's up guys. I'm adam southie here with my co host justin's leva in this is the counterpart as rei podcast today. We're talking to mike. Slotnick is real estate investment expert other end coach before we dive into that though. Let's talk about price. Dot com priced is a powerful line web application that simplifies the acquisition process for real estate direct mail. Marketing campaigns price provides research tools and enables you to identify locations to mail pressure data and allies over one million cops pool owner records and scrub your data to produce a ready to mail campaign list head over the price dot com slash casual. Fridays are e to start your seven day free trial and get discounted prices today. That is p. r. y. Cd dot com last casual. Fridays are e johann friday. Hey what's up man. I'm excited about today. And i think it's because of the name of mike's podcast the big mike fund. And i'm i'm ready to talk to big mike because i think that this is going. Be one of those shows that gets our mind going and then when you carry it says like our show nuts is like. He's known real estate circles as big mike due to his stature. So i mean you gotta have you gotta have. We don't know it doesn't say how. What kind of statuary has. But i'm hoping you know live live up to. Mike told him. I can ask him one. Bizarre question michael tall. Are you six four six four. That's big that's bigger than i'm going to say. Big mike. welcome to the show. How are you sir. Thank you for having me. And i won't have you glad to have you know it's If you could just kind of give us the elevator. Pitch of mike and who you are listeners. Get to know you and and kind of understand why we want to have you on the show. I come from russia with love. Well how can you not quite. I immigrated lady and eighty nine to the united states. Your citizen patriot live in brooklyn new york. Twenty one years married for kids and the cast fifth child A big guy six four and heavy side and actually the name big. Mike kind of stuck through the you might have heard about the collective genius mastermind guys in the real estate go. So i'm a super veteran of been the group and they are calling me big. Michael big russian. I'm not you know a more of a us citizen than but the name stuck so one of my good friends. Corey bowed right. You may know corey. He you know. When i was thinking to start a podcast he said. Let's call the podcast. Big mike fund your fund manager. So it's might find podcast. That's how that came to life. But i fund manager. I manage ephemeral funds in love real estate. My passion previously had a career in the key almost fifteen years successful career but found that real estate is a lot more fun than being a software executive. So here here i am. Yeah and it's awesome. And so now it brooklyn new york kind of puts you in the forefront of the cova pandemic the what's going on and then it sounds kind of like you've from what we've seen in our show notes that you've found what's hot and what's cold right now in today's market with covid can you. Can you talk to that a little bit. Sure a little brooklyn. New york and New york city unfortunately covetous hit new york city pretty hard and we've had a number of people left the city and we've had obviously the closures from the mayor and the governor and is coming from the governor has you you've seen lately i the politics alone but we do a lot of investing outside of new york steel of new york. We do some investing here but the hottest subject today is version of hotels to affordable multifamily housing. So if you wanna pick one hot topic wants someone interesting to talk about. I believe this sort of a land of opportunity. It's sort of pandemic created or pandemic accelerated trump. So i don't know you're what he ends but if very estate investors are looking for interesting deals try. Try to find a good multifamily deal. It's very competitive hard to find but if you can find dysfunctional hotel and you can convert it you can get into the same asset class. We'll be loaded. Construction cost a great price point. So just let me. That seems to be huddled there and we've been investing sector so i love that topic and i was actually having a conversation with somebody earlier today. Like if you wanted to write your own check in real estate right now is affordable housing in finding that key to it. And you know it's like fake puts you here with me today to talk about this a little bit more than i. I'd like to talk a little bit more in debt so of that. Because you're right. Construction costs are through the roof. Right now we're in texas. oh we've opened things back up. People were flooding texas in house. Prices are going through the roof. And so when we're looking for deals like to to make affordable housing us. You've mentioned dysfunctional hotels. What do we look for in like. What's a key piece of advice for us there. Sure so yeah exactly. Construction costs Through the roof repositioning existing asset is hard and when you take on an empty s it it's easier to complete the development and convert than to do a gradual path of value add multifamily so the simplest and easiest path to that is look for extended. Stay hotels these appear to be a lower time and lower cost to convert. Some of them may have built kitchen in them. The other key consideration is location. They're located already in residential neighborhood Proximity to college universities is great because again affordable housing people move off the campus. Go into it doesn't have to be student housing. But it's more affordable than the the campus louis so it has to be a natural fit state doesn't have to be extended. We've invested in their fuel. The hotels that look like multiple ramada you can imagine what reminder looks like those could work out to studios present the range thing opportunity where it's well below the average market rent but you have small space. You get your privacy. You don't have a big place but hey it's your neck of the woods and So those are kind of basic starting characteristics obviously economics and the math behind. What is it going to cost to complete their innovation. What is it going to be worth after the repair is going to drive the price you pay so look for the hotels that are struggling. Look for the empty parking. Lots look for You could pull data. Obviously if hotel his is a foreclosure and hotel. That's a good case scenario right. I mean it's a distress so as much as possible distress or for performance they. They create motivation for the seller to take action. So one thing. I just touched on it right then. I think my answer this but the type of hotels that you would convert an extended stay. They already have a bedroom built in right. Because if you think of radisson like you said if you convert it it's in studio layout there's no split bedrooms and so the whole hotel convert to just like studio apartment type of place to flavors question so you got the stay. Like residents in that is a classic example the flag but it's some of them. Are you know they will own local leaf. An onerous ruling They they may need a solution to the problem so the conversion naturally they have one bedroom they have sort of a mini living area and a kitchen right. I mean that's that's media apartment right there. That's your ideal target. Then you go into secondary targets essentially mentioned ramada that looks like model basically have external access. They could be two three four floors depending on the size. Most difficult two story buildings in the they will be converted to studios that you you anther from this the same way hotel rooms somewhere. In the middle you may have a pool in some kind of Facilities hotel amenities. So those type of are a little bit easier. Conversion against studios appear to be in good demand If you are near transportation near how a student you know. -education universities colleges and then Workforce housing hotel like this in a class. Property neighborhood would not be a good fit. But if you're in be be mind the sea so decent conversion because affordability it's all about affordability and you if the supply of products ltd and the interesting thing zoning does the hotel have natural right to multifamily living by By zoning if it does the conversion path is a lot easier versus. You have to go go into the city and get permission. Is there a standard for what makes a portable living like thousand dollars a month. It's affordable nationwide or. Does it depend on state by state university or the already know the answer. Of course it's place by place for ability. New york is drastically different than affordability in taxes taxes. A lot and it's a very different world it's So they told local. Have to look at the every tramp in a given area. And what would be affordable list below average right and it doesn't have to be necessarily difficult areas just in this area retreat. Maybe a thousand bucks therefore will maybe hundred maybe seven seven fifty for a studio versus one bedroom off nine. Fifty thousand really depends on the area so if we are scared to take on a hotel version by herself. Is your fun open for people like us. That are interested in it. But don't quite know how to do all that legwork exactly so i thank you for bringing up this point this. The reason people invest with us who provide a few key benefits wanted to diversification so we spread the risk among many projects. This point we have couple of ramadas one best western couple of residences. So and they're all over the map. We have new braunfels texas. We have some bend indiana. We have winston salem north carolina. We have may result because not because we're typically chose to go there but deputies opened up there and if you get if you win your marketing yo finding a good project and you have capability in that count in the city. You wind up during the project there. It has happened in the past so we are all over. The lower diversify and the other benefit is We have institutional level waterfall. So we funds offer. For example temple funny provident classic members get eighty twenty over eight clasby seventy thirty so we treat this as a traditional product to douche investors high net worth and. We appreciate folks considering mess with us as a way to into this strategy and fun by the way does have a few additional strategies so just to be clear. This fund is not pure hold optimal to family. We have one office conversion to multifamily. We have a couple of self storage deals and some distressed debt. But what your city so. I like invest in new york city but in distress commercial. I don't want. I don't want to buy overpriced esa with letterman certainty. I would i would rather buy firstly mortgage four seventy eight million dollars with the collateral being fifty million dollars. That's the way to play uncertain market if you can buy distressed debt So it's a different strategy completely but we like that as part of overall fund. They were vacation. does that make sense. Yeah no the diversification piece it. I think it resonates with a lot of people. The copious was you. You brought home something that we've all seen you know we. We've all driven through town and saw a ramada. We've all been to college town that had older hotels that look like they've just kinda nobody was there and we could picture like. Oh what if. I did this here. Could i do that in my small town. Turn this studio apartment complex or this extended stay hotel into student housing. What does that generate. And i've i've had probably three of those type deals run across my desk in the last five years. We're guys like hey man if we could put together this money and do this and i'm like it's so far out of my normal wheelhouse that it just it wasn't. It wasn't something that i'm not gonna say. It didn't intrigue me or didn't make sense. It was just like man. I don't even know where to get started on that. Like i'm thinking in my head. Do you have a kitchen. Like how do you make the kitchen. You know the getting into the nuts and bolts when really the numbers probably worked it just. It was so far out of the conversion that that piece was out of my my wheelhouse. It didn't make sense to me but now great comment require specialization. People have asked me. So what's the risk of these right. I mean rewards are potentially very strong. We just actually had one full cycle. Hotel just came back. And i in twenty one months. Our investment may two point two x on the money. It was like seventy three percent. Irr and i'm not saying this to promote the strategy just happened to be really good successful project and it worked out to be that way. So there's there's a great upside if things go really well but most of them are underwritten for low to mid twenties type of return. So let me go. Let me state this. I don't want people to think. Hey this is the easiest thing after the sliced bread and you can go and do it. Yes if you are if you are an expert operate and if you have capability to do all the construction if you've experience managing these type of projects potentially it's project for you but let me just mention a couple of quick risks so these type of products have could have substantial cost and time associated with them so having sufficient budget and being able to execute the time line and under the cost is a big big risk and risk mitigation requires very conservative financing and experience and i mentioned zoning is a key thing so before you go. Do the thing machine feasibility. Study make sure you can actually convert this by it and then location is the key. Real estate is all about location. Location location if you pick the right location even if you're paying somewhat of our higher price you may wind up with a better asset than getting a cheap deal somewhere in the boonies just because you've got a good deal on on on acquisition doesn't mean people wanna live there so these kind of things are very important considerations. Yeah no it's it's great to look at all pieces of that and it's you're right you know just because it's a good deal in the middle of nowhere doesn't mean that it's gonna make sense as affordable place for people to live inside of an area they want be and it's great and it's probably one of the best things about having people that are competent fund. Managers is that they understand that for you and you don't have to learn every intricacy you can be diversified in many things like you talked about the commercial debt mortgages being firstly mortgage holders at the self storage. And then you've talked about the co conversions which all different asset niches in a different place. But you can be a part of that diversified across all of that at one in one place exactly. I appreciate The wisdom and this. This is how i think what i do. They inundated out very much. Love my my kind of i. Don't call it work passion. I love this so Diversification natural element of investing. If you If you don't diversify hey you could be very successful. You can hit a couple of home runs. You can wait up and as a manager. My job number one is to avoid roller coaster ride and ensure as much as possible smooth sailing and so by the way one interesting fact and again completely unrelated. But when i talk about the fun i have this most favorite sliding whole presentation i show brooklyn. Cyclones is all wooden roller coaster in the united states. And i've i've i've ridden it in. After writing it a few times i decided. Hey listen this is not for me in. If you like roller coaster rise diversify if you wanna get a little bit more predictable returns a little bit more smooth sailing. Consider that i. That's a great advice. Now if i could ask you are avatar or our client is typically a successful in corporate. America has kind of a side hustle entrepreneur or they're a fulltime land investor. And they're growing your business and looking for opportunities to diversify outside of that for a new investor or a newer person in the world of real estate and different niches. What what advice would you give him. So it's a great question. We have many investors who are professionals in other fields. Many dentists investors. Many it professionals. And it's it's different investment outside of the kind of wall street and it is a little bit of scary journey Used to buying your traditional vehicle. Mutual funds stocks bonds. Well i don't know who buys bonds now it's one of the worst investments today in with what's going on out there but let's just say your wall street person and you have concerns about how high the market is and you want to diversify you. Got to sort of get to know like and trust. People going invest with stress. It any other way very hard to invest and we do the same thing when i guess shiny objects offers from from the internet or i need introductions without kind of a strong referral chain. I don't know who. They are very hard to invest so the problem solving to make my investment decisions are very similar to a lot of investors when they look at me and the fund manager my team in in another similar products. It's all about building trust. So i think the key first step is to Learn who do you like. What do you want to consider investing with spend time chatting with him learning how they make money. What i what i hate the most is when people give you great returns but you can't understand how they make money. That's a danger number. One right bernie made became so successful. When people decided to abdicate. They're investing it'd be a little bit more active still. You're looking for a passive investment but due due diligence in. There are a number of interesting. You know we could talk about this. What makes a good fund for manager should use internal administration external. I mean we like external because we went third party books to be done by third party administrator. What is financial strategies all those things matter so the advice is slow down slow down and learn who sort of pick who you wanna mess with and then kind of move slowly and they versus the this not enough said about that. It's a simple concept but people fall in love with they project or or a sponsor. Lee him a big check. And there's a problem so you find a few folks maybe three four five right a small check to each one and see how they do. I don't know who else build a relationship over time don expect to find a rockstar overnight. You have to get to know the click with a person. We do the same thing when investing by the way before we write a check if we don't know the sponsor with tried to establish the chain and if can't establish the chain go very slowly if at all so cool what's going on that a whole new investor doing this the first time they find a syndicator right. They find someone who's going. They want to invest money. With what should they be asking. How do you know if someone is a good syndicator. Like what are some questions we can we. They're critically crew. Whether at least great questions guys. I really appreciate the wisdom. The wisdom of the questions right often. It's not about the answer to the question because the question makes you think and once you start thinking you you you you learn through questions not to answer. So there are three primarily primary things considered before you invest with with interest indication or refund. Number one is the co-sponsor number two. Is this a good deal of the economics in the d. level strong is the risk adjusted return. The level is good and the third element. I want to mention because people ignore this one. This is probably just as important as the first two is. Are that good economics for the investor. So i see this day in and day out good sponsors breeland marketers put together good profile. Good face could social media they find decent deal and they offer pretty crappy economics for the investors and good economics for them. I mean this will do many guys that do this. I know really well. Y- i'm curious. What your what that means like if you could expand on that just a little bit more crappy. Economics is for the investor. So when i started this with a little bit early. I mentioned funds have institutional war for this this term waterfall. It it just a fancy term for the economics on a deal investment so as investor stake in risk. They need to receive an adequate risk adjusted. Return so when you have a fun that works indication that charges. Kind of light fees upfront. He's a good pref and has a split. Like i mentioned eighty twenty in favor of mestre. That's a good institutional product. When i when i see extreme on the other side is hey. Investors get eight percent pref and then they get one tenth of the outside. The sponsor keeps ninety percent right. So what happens in these type of deals. When the deal works out to be a super strong deal becomes a homerun. In generates seventy percent return investors will get eight percent breath in one tenth of the seventy and get fifteen percent total. They feel awesome. I'm going to fifteen percent return. Well the the sponsor just made three percent for for himself or herself. So what happened. What's wrong with that picture. That picture is when there is a homerun deal. Investors never captured homerun deal. They can never get to that seventy three percent because ninety percent of the goes to the sponsor and when the deal goes poof. When things go bad they'll mind so this is what generates in a diversified portfolio at risk adjusted return when there are great deals investors capture up site. Win there are strikeouts. They every child to be okay. So this is a key consideration on the on the Economics from the deal. And obviously i've seen funds where the The fund managers charge of seen fee. Six seventy percent just to buy an to one percent one and a half two percent. Maybe reasonable get somebody charts sixty percent. They can is a good deal for investors now paying too much to fund manager. Upfront the alignment of interest is missing. The best alignment of interest when the fund manager or syndicator gets that payday when the deal sells or refinances and guess investor substantial return. So what what makes with sponsor well obviously high integrity good communication high expertise good network of deals ability to to source strong deals. All those things make me go sponsor and there are plenty of could sponsor over time have gravitated to warfare a little bit less to investors and more to themselves. it's a natural progression of good sponsors. Is anything wrong with them. No so i'll give you example. We ever deal with one sponsor very strong sponsor that gave us twelve percent preferred return and you guys know how these things work and we had eighty percent of the eighty. Twenty over twelve was a phenomenal deal. We have the deal actually fund and there's a homerun deal and then a few months later they broke the different deal with ten percent pref and fifty fifty over ten and i came back to him and said why offering this versus the deal so well now the deal flow off the shelf. You got lucky you got what you got in that deal and the people chasing me offering me a lotta money. Why do i need to give those great terms. And that's a valid point but the sponsors actually strong institutional sponsor the risk some of the projects through their experience. So it's kind of a balancing act but finding responses important just watch out that good sponsors start offering mediocre projects in when that happens then you have to pay attention to that too. Not just the sponsor of themselves. Well that's a that's a lot right there To kind of take in and i. I'm glad you broke it down like he did. Because i think it gives us all something to think about. Because as our clients start to build more wealth they start to look syndications and funds to diversify because who wants to chase deals every day for the rest of their life. They want to get their money working for them. And that's kind of the the the apple you have those great words of wisdom there and we got anything to finalise with him. I don't think so. Give us information cool. There's been detailed. Very i love it. I love it i would take that as a key takeaway for somebody. If you're wanting to look for a good sponsor or a syndicator is somebody that can explain it to you at a level that you may not know much about it to actually understand what you're looking for big mike. We appreciate it man. Take you guys. I appreciate you and we have a book out on this. Not selling the book. I'm telling you. I don't either but i have. The book called out the chew. Smart realistic investment fund on amazon. And actually ask you. The book is about ten questions to ask before someone. Invested in a fund or syndication so as search for my last name is latin grammars on you'll find the book working with version two point of the book so hopefully you'll see that Sylvan and again the final couple of comments. You folks want to learn more and airborne. They got nothing else to listen to. They can go to big. Mike fund dot com listened to the podcast. I have some really interesting guests number of them. Our sponsors disindicators. You can actually pick some nuggets from the discussions and Type go to big mike. Fun dot com. I promise it's not a cool. I got to check out the book. The podcast dot website and as always for us go to facebook instagram. Youtube gives like fall. Subscribe and then go to go to wherever else listening to us. Like the trump appreciate. We love you see an friday. I guess. Thank you mike. That was great. Hope is held.

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SSP005 Building Credibility Through Color & Style with Danielle Fuhrman

Solopreneur Success

20:57 min | 2 years ago

SSP005 Building Credibility Through Color & Style with Danielle Fuhrman

"The icon lawyer is the color of credibility trust ecm action. So if you can find your color in wear it, it will make a really big difference. Especially when you're meeting, somebody for the first time you're listening to color, and style expert, Danielle Furman, founder of the image consulting business. Reflections of you. Whether you meet clients, in person, speak from the stage or simply want to confidence that comes from knowing you, look, your best, you're going to enjoy this episode because Danielle is today's guests on solar for Noor success. Welcome to the solo Brno success podcast west successful business owners gathered to shed true stories and sound advice to help you start and grow your own. Solo piano business comes over us in design the light you love. Now here's your host Steve combs. A hollow solar preneurs today. We're having a conversation with Danielle Furman eye color, and style expert, and I invited Daniel onto the show today because the image you project, your customers makes a difference and show, explain why in just a minute of Danielle welcome to the show Inc. You thank you for having me. Steve, I really appreciate it. I'm really excited to be here with you and your listeners, I'm trying to have you on. And I thought the best way to start this conversation is that start at the most basic level. Why does color even matter for people in business or even in life in general? What what's the big deal about color? What color is important? I mean, there's a lot of different elements that are formed by color is important because if you're wearing colors that are congruent with you, or to your coloring, then people are going to relate to you in a very different way than if you're wearing something that is not your color family, like, for instance, this is one of my big pet peeves is wearing black. 'cause black complete invisible walls up between you and the person that you're talking to if it's a color that you can't wear. There aren't a lot of people that can wear it if you have black hair. Yes, it definitely easier to wear it. But when you're wearing a collar, that represents you, there's just more of a connection and credibility that happens as interesting so defined that color, though. How do you know what your caller is? I guess this kind of what you do. Right. That's what idea. That's why they need to contact me. No, it you know, if you really look at your skin tones, your color on your hair, color, and can get into that range those, that's kind of where I start with everything. So the eye color is the color of credibility. Trust act connection. So if you can find your color in wear it, it will make a really big difference, especially when you're meeting somebody for the first time, but you'll actually call yourself some people might but you don't really call yourself a color styles. List. But you call yourself a caller in style expert, which is a little bit different white why the difference there is curious. It's you know, I go back and forth between image consultant colored style expert because I do color and I do style and image consultant kind of covers all of it, but I'm not just a stylist, a stylist for me is more just working with the style close at work. And sometimes they talk about color, but it's really more about the clothes and it's not about the color. What led you down this road to become an expert in this area. How did you end up building a business around us entire concept? What led you there? I'm I, I had my color stunned over thirty years ago and made such a profound difference in the way that people reacted to me that I knew one day that I would want to go back and get trained in this field of image consulting. And when I was going through my divorce that was the time that I jumped into a new career project. Anytime sort of business. There's always challenges. What did you find that was difficult for you? Getting started in this kind of a business or your challenges, I think some of the challenges are that you're not quite sure where to start like how to do a website landing page now all those different things and because of my business a website is important. But sometimes what you just need to do is get on the phone and start just talking to people to get clients in, you know, I think we take on way too much the beginning, instead of really finding out the things that are going to propel propel, you into the next face in a successful way. That's triggered say about getting on the phone with some people are terrified in a phone. They don't wanna call anybody to just you'll come to my website, nets it. So did you like make cold calls or who did you actually call? How did that work? Well, when I was going through school. I was calling people all the time because I had to find clients. An serpent you know, somebody to also be a volunteer, so I could practice. So it started off that way. And then once I got done with school. I was calling on my friends go. I just completed my course you wanna come in. You know, have your colors Donner. Do you wanna work with your style, or go through your closet? And so that's how it started in. I got referrals from them, Gajah bootstrapped your business with those here in your personal network goes, you know, he rebuilt relationships with them. Also wasn't like your cold calling people, but they knew you were in, so you had some kind of relationship with which I think, is very important and took that to kind of take it from the ground up and say, look, let me show you what I can do and took it onto the next level. It sounds like exactly in. I wanna say like thirty years ago, there wasn't the social media that there is right now. So it I would say it's easier now to get onto Facebook or do linked in or different platforms to help you with your business, but it was. Isn't as Big Ben? I've never been much of a techie. So I probably was happier than than I am now. I don't mind doing the Facebook wing. Dan? It's just not, you know, it has always been my favorite. So, how'd you do? How do you build relationships with people today is mostly through where to Buffy furrows or how, how do you connect with new people to, to grow your business? At this point, I do networking, I go to different networking markets are different networking meetings. I'm actually in one group, that is just for speakers. I have a lot of different Facebook groups on, I'm part of, I'm also a part of another platform called talk fusion, which is an Email, video Email platform side, been using that a lot and word of mouth, having people refer, you know, their, their friends, or family or clients to me short. Of course, you're a podcast today, so this is a way to reach a new audience and you'd have a speaker. Group. Do you do public speaking as well as at how you get in front of people also, I do I on this particular group. Yeah, I guess, I mean, I'm going to be speaking to her group next month and so, yes, I am getting in front of people speaking, which I enjoy doing and you know, being that I have my, my book is number one, I promote that. And I do podcasts, you know, there's many different venues out there getting onto. I was supposed to actually do Facebook live today after as done, but just got cancelled but we're creating something around jewelry, interesting. So is that the color is at styles of both. My, my friend makes the jewelry. So we have a conversation about color in, how does that relate to the person in texture size? Shapes of them. Could see to variety, whether it's earrings necklaces or regular fingerings, whatever you wearing injurious interesting that you're pulling that into not just close. But the whole thing in your book. I've read it in. We'll talk about that low bet, but it talks about hiking attic, centuries in and helped draw out the right callers. I think it's really fascinating. But let's, let's say somebody comes to you Daniel and says, I need to find some help in finding my right color. I want to make the most of this with somebody comes to you. What is it typical process, look, like let's say they reach out to you and say, can you help me what happens next? Well, usually I will take them through questionnaire and ask them a lot of questions like, you know, let's their lifestyle like, why are they reaching out to me now, you know, is something? Important coming up. Like, are they going into a business meeting? Are they getting onto a podcast are a going out in interviewing for jobs or they getting on the stage? So it depends on what it is third looking for. And then when I know what it is that they would like to really kind of create for themselves. So we can talk more about color in solid close in some in, I can work long distance. But when you work, I want to say in person, you know, then I can help them go through there 'cause it as well as the next questions, usually people think of salads, or somebody would work, you know in person with about you do offer some services remotely sounds like so. So what what's different there between an in person consultation, or a wreck with remotely, what are the limitations? Well, I to say the, the limitations, a little bit are that when you're looking at somebody if the lighting isn't good on the like if we were doing zoom call like what we're doing. Right now in the lighting's not good. It's hard to release you the color. So I will have them some. You're really good photograph of themselves, before we start I put their whole pal together and send it back to them. So that when we actually start talking than they have everything in front of them that they need, you know, I've worked with clients going through their closet, though. Pull things out in the you know, show show me what you think of this. And so we'll talk about it in always, it's better to work in person. But that's not always possible. So for listeners, I just wanna point out, this is something you're listening to. But Daniel, we're looking at each other long distance, you're your California right up in New Hampshire and so- relaunched distance. But you know since the first time he talked a couple of weeks ago. We had like a pre interview call. And Daniel point out a couple of things to me. One of those being doubt in my color is blue and the blue draws it out. So today, a blue shirt. Nice and something else that she brought up just mango is to lighting and something that I've done for myself, and I've noticed a big difference. Just in a video recording even though this podcast is going out and audio format. I actually have high definition LED lighting, which is, you know, a full spectrum lighting on both sides of me, and it makes a big difference in, you know, they picking up the color and, and anything you're videoing. So if you're doing some kind of video in your business. Look for HD lighting definitely makes a difference. I've noticed a huge difference, personally, now I have the curtains open, but you can't count on to somebody coming in just the right way without large shadows taking over so the HD lighting helps I, I think anyone attest to that today end. There's like so many different kinds of lighting there. So the lights that are circles, I just lost the name of it when it comes to let you know, but it's, it's amazing and they work really, well they're great for. They use them for makeup in the use it for just. Lighting in general for such things as this on a great, so you typically in person, and sometimes you work with them remotely. But let me ask you, this question for for many solar preneurs listening to this podcast are going to be spending most their day in front of a computer. They may rarely meet clients, like you do in person. So how does color help them and I'm kind of a leading question about a love to hear what you thoughts are? Well, I think that for me personally, even though I may not be seen anybody all day long. I always wear my colors, just because I feel better, even when I go to the gym. I wear my colors. It's just something that I feel more comfortable and even though I don't have makeup on when I go to the gym and stuff. At least I still look a little bit better. You know, wearing my colors instead of wearing black all the time. I mean, I think it just makes you feel better in the long run. Even once, you know what your color recipe is your color, palette than you can incorporate that into walls. Onto your office, as well or furniture. So you can take parts of the colors that you have on your palate. In create, you know, wall that makes you feel better or unit. Just having artwork around you or a chair good. Okay. Here's a drug from leading towards this because coders are so important. Hugh mention what about, like for your business presence, for example, the colors on your website, the colors your logo or the colors that you might use to present your materials on a pedia for whatever you're providing do you do consultation as far as you know, how to put the right colors into something for a purpose also is that something you do, or is that something gets outside of that scope? I can help a little bit. But I would probably for somebody on Moore to a graphic designer to do things like that, that I think once you have your colors stunned. If you haven't done your branding, yet, it's a great way to incorporate your colors ensure branding. I have found I've met quite a few. People that have already done their branding, their colors are very different than the Randy colors. And then they, they say, well, I need to wear these colors because there might brand, but they don't look on. So for me by the change, your, Brandon colors, so that you actually look good in them if you're going to wear them, that's a great pointer in so just reiterate if, if you're going to have a brand that you're gonna be wearing those colors serve you. Well to make sure that they match your skin tone, your icon, lower your hair, and we're gonna talk about how you can determine some of that here, just a minute. But I wanted to point something else out here. You know, you're caller in style expert in dig with talk mostly about color today. But how to style play into that role. Well style is really important because it needs the closeness to fit your body in, I have gone in two meetings or workshops and stuff, and I've seen men and women wearing jackets that are way too big like the. Sleeve. Length is way too long. The sleeve is too big if they had the sleeve lane career, act and the width of the arm correct. They could lose ten pounds just like that, you know, just looking so much better. So the fit of garment is really important. I can't even stress that enough. And also the texture of garments can be very important, too. Because if you have somebody, let's say that has really shiny hair in may be their skin as a little shiny. They're not going to wear something that has a lot of texture in it. They're going to wear something that might be smoother or a material that has a little bit of shine to it instead of something that is really heavy textured enough. Interesting thought, maybe the opposite that because if my hair was shining, my face, shiny to I'm have something to offset of your saying it's better to kind of coordinate together. Well, I would say so, so this is a really good example. Well, if you if there's a person that has really bad, let's say acne and invaded what you're talking about what it would do like if they were wearing something really shiny, wet. It would do as it would accent, the acne instead of kind of camouflage bit by wearing something that's a little more textured because it's not going to bring all the attention to their face. It's gonna, you know, you'll have an overall feeling for the texture of not just shining on your face. Would've loved to hear that by teen years until you. So if you have teenagers home, they're struggling with active point that tip out. That's like right tip. I never heard that before. That's really awesome deal your business. I don't know what you're doing right now, as far as what you're moving forward towards. But what's next for you and your business? What was the next big thing? Well, one of the things that I'm been wanting to do for a long time, but I want to create some kind of retreat. Where we either go somewhere or maybe even on a cruise 'cause I love to travel in all travel anywhere to go be with the client of if they wanna pay me to do that. But I just think it would be a lot of fun. It's a, it's a great way to be in a relaxed atmosphere and have fun. And learn something, maybe a retreat my friend, and I co a colleague, we're talking about doing something potentially like going to Italy or something like that. Which would be so much fun in the shopping, there would be amazing. It would be like Milan and have your records there negotiating together in your style and color. That's that would be really fun. I agree. Well, now when we're going you, you do that, and we'll little lesser is no about that. So this has been great, but I kept mentioning about a book that you have, and I was mentioned actually read this is called his color, sabotaging you or support you and you give that away free in your website. I certainly want to recommend that to anybody who says this is something that I could really take advantage of an intrude as it is something you can take advantage of, and you should, so where do people find that book? How did they get ahold about good colored tips for success dot com and on that will take you to my website and you can download the book for free. There are, and even you can even go to by getting there by name, but it's a little harder to spell but it, it's Danielle Furman in how you spell my last name as few HR MAN great enough. But this new show out. So if you're listening, what you're driving, or something like that. You're you're busy right now. That's okay. Just jump back and look at the show notes, and we'll have the links in there for you. And I'll tell you like said, I read the book you can read it in a single setting. It's not huge soul take you a week to read through but is very help would explain to basics of caller in hottest select your best colors and do yourself a favor grabbed Daniels book and read it in. Then if they said, this is great. No, perhaps take it to the next level. How would somebody new establish relationship with you Daniel how would they get in touch with you? So if you're interested in maybe doing a strategy session with me, just to find out more, you can go to info at Danielle Furman dot com and that will you can shoot me an Email, and I will get back to you to set up a call. Awesome. This really January. So listen, guys free consultation with a color expert. And this is not something that you'll find everywhere you go. This is somebody who can actually help you and she's already helped me just the pre interview call we had a couple of weeks ago, just talking in general chatting, and I've already gotten great tests that have helped me personally. So definitely take advantage of this getting free book reach out to her in and take advantage of the free consultation. I do recommend read the book. I that way you're kind of stabbed and you can make the most of your time with Danielle time's valuable, but I was thank you, Daniel for being such a great reason whereas audience. Eleven folks, look at the show notes, again, the conversation's been about color and style. And you can get that free book at color. Tips for success dot com, doesn't cost you a cent and you can get a free consultation by emailing Danielle at info at Danielle firm and dot com. Again, those will be in the show notes everybody have a great week. We'll talk to you next week. Thank you for listening to the solo Pernilla success podcast. We hope you discovered valuable advice on how to start and grow your own successful. So for no business come. So in us by joining our community at Stott grow saw dot com. Again, that's stopped Grosso dot com. We look forward to seeing you that, hey everybody Steve combs here. Again, just wanted to make sure you know exactly where to find the show notes. Those can be found at start grow sore dot com forward slash zero zero five and don't miss next week's episode of having a good friend, Mike class and coming on. We're going to talk about doing voice over a lot of great tips for voice really nail him with a bunch of great questions for my sake, as well as yours, and I'm looking forward to share net episode with you, in the meanwhile, if you haven't already make sure to subscribe on your favorite podcast player, whether it's IT tunes soon to be apple podcast, as you've probably heard, if you use that Google play Stitcher, Spotify, you can find their show. Oh, and pretty much Eddie podcast player. You like just make sure you give it a subscribe. And a like if you would give me a five star rating, if you love this show on sure appreciate it in the meanwhile have a great week.

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The Voicefluencer Show with Rebecca Evanhoe

Alexa in Canada

18:48 min | 11 months ago

The Voicefluencer Show with Rebecca Evanhoe

"You're listening to episode one forty four of alexa in canada. The voice experience. Hey there. I'm dr terry fisher. One part physician. One part voice enthusiast. One big part canadian one small part of our community northern voice together. Let's explore. How voice technology is transforming our lives north of the border. Let's talk voice. Low and welcome to the podcast terry here so pleased to have you along. Today i've got a very special guest as you will know over the last couple of weeks we have been highlighting those voiceless that are appearing on the voice end by the way. If you haven't joined us recently for the voiced and please do so you are more than welcome considers personally just go to the voice. Then dot com. Our next episode is going to be wednesday december sixteenth at five. Pm pacific and you can enter the den so to speak savior free seat at the voice n. dot com so. I hope that we will see their now at this next episode of the voice. Then we are going to be featuring as one of the voice lewinsky's rebecca. Evan otherwise known as professor you x. And she is such a knowledgeable conversation designer and it's really interesting. She has a background. Her background is an mfa in fiction. Writing really interesting how she got into voice from that. She talks about a book that she is writing right now. She talks about teaching. She's doing And there aren't that. Many people are actually teaching this sort of stuff out there right now. So she's doing some cutting edge work and it's my pleasure to Introduce rebecca to you. So let's bring rebecca onto the show. Hey there becca how are you doing. Hey i'm good. Hey from brooklyn from brooklyn or more on the west coast here so We got a three hour. Time change but So it's leader there for you but but you're hanging in there. It must be on dinner. Time dinnertime for you. This will get some dinner after awesome. Well thanks so much for being here really excited to have you on the voice coming up and of course on this show i would love you to take just a few moments here and introduce yourself to the audience. Yeah hey everybody. I'm rebecca ivanhoe. I'm a conversation designer and have been in this field eight almost nine years. I currently am teaching at pratt. Design school here in brooklyn. I teach a course on conversation design. And i've been doing a little bit of freelance and working on a book about conversation design. So that's taken out most of my ear. You have lots of stuff going on which is awesome. That's amazing so the very first thing you said you've been a conversation designer for nine years space almost on your soon. The voice base. There are a lot of new conversation designers getting into this. So i'm curious like how did you get involved in that almost nine years ago. What's the what's the history of. What's the story their story there. I told elsewhere. But i it was very much a chance. I have an mfa in fiction writing. And while i was getting that degree i met someone when i was living in gainesville florida and they had a startup that basically was We didn't call it conversation design at the time. But that's what it was. It was putting together training data usability testing and writing prompts so as sort of stumbled into conversation design but took to it pretty much right away. Cool that's great. And so how have you seen. Things evolve over this almost decade in that. You've been doing this honestly. I would be curious if other people have had this experience but for me for the first like five years i was really siloed. I did not know another conversation designer for like five years. I just thought. I had a weird job and like occasionally you would read about there. Were a couple of new york times articles about people writing for for a sort of stuff. And i didn't like me But it wasn't until. I started working for an agency in working on more like alexa skills and things like that. I realized there's this whole community of people. And so when i went to let's voice summit in two thousand eighteen. That was the first time. I was like in person with other conversation designers and like okay. These are my people that's cool. That must've been a lot of fun for you to go that coverage and meet other people like i love that summer camp fantastic and so you're obviously extremely experienced you've got you bought years of experience behind you now And i love for you to talk about this book that you're ready now because that's a that's a big job. I imagine the tells about a tell us what what what's going into this and what it's all about. Tell us what the fuck. Yeah thanks for asking. So i'm co authoring. The book with diana deibel who herself is a conversation designer. She's a playwright in in her background. But she has also been in conversation designed in for a little longer than i have and so we. Actually i think we met on a slack channel and became like in real life friends. So we're the first books that really taught me much of what i know before i knew people in this field is of course kathy pearls book and then there's one by its earlier it's from like two thousand ten or something in it's the others. Gene gola bellow in cowan. And i think it's called like voice user. Interface design has a dog on cover. those are the books that really laid the foundation for a lot of what reinforced a lot of what i was like learning in my job and so knowing that these good books really existed out there what we wanted to do with this book is sort of address it from a really firm like you. Axe human centered design perspective. 'cause there's other books cover a lot of the process lay really great groundwork But the field has changed alive and there are some things. I think people misunderstand about conversation designed to what makes it complex. I've worked for like the last four years consultant and saw a lot of the same misconceptions leading people to underscore the projects or not. Have the right people in the room. And so the book is in some of those gaps building on the authors that have come before us and we also interviewed a ton of people to the buck to just get our sea of our perspectives. Were the same as other people's and we encountered all the stuff where people just have different angles on it and we include a lot of those perspectives in the book. And there's also a moments in the book where diana and i debate lake different angles with each other so lots of perspectives in very cool. So is this. Would you say this is geared towards like new conversation designers or conversational designers. Or more vance if you can call them that or what would you say. Or what's the audience for the book. Yeah i would say. Probably i would say beginners and both people who are a little more established will get a lot out of the book people that we've given early chapters to just sort of like again getting that perspective. Getting a lot of feedback on the work. People have our goal. I think we're sort of hearing that it's working well for this is to give people a book. They can give to their co workers so everybody can kind of get on the same page about stuff so definitely another audiences like people who are maybe you x. designers already but maybe they don't have specific experience with conversational interfaces so this can fill in that That gap potentially. And i think that anybody on a team that's working on conversational interfaces whether your data scientist developer a pm I think everybody could benefit from again. All the different perspectives in the book. And and all the coverage that provides that's great. That's what's the process actually been like the book like. How big is this thing and like. Has this been like a fulltime. I know obviously. You've got a fulltime job. Like how did you do this. How did you work in well. This isn't an interesting question because you know it's been a pandemic. I don't know if you know about that. The heard that somewhere. Yeah yeah so. I actually have only been working part time this year specifically to do a lot of work on the book because i'm not a good multitasker and i knew i was going to be good co author. I would need to kind of focus on it. So i've been doing more freelance this year and just like kind of picking and choosing projects which has been great in focusing on it The superhero is diana who is working full-time and parenting the pandemic and she still spent so much time on this book. That's the real. The real impressive part is lake Just you know making time. She's had to grab whatever bits of time she can to work on it. But it's gonna be like Page count to be determined cooking. It's not slim but we don't want to you know we don't end up with like warren piece length book either. An i should mention. It's out the publishers rosenfeld media just like an indie publisher that publishes awesome you x and designed books We pitched proposal to them because we love their books. And so it'll be out with them in twenty twenty one amazing amazing. Can you be any more specific or you don't or you don't know where you can't say in terms of the timeline went twenty. It's like it'll be may but don't hold me to that too may plus or minus some a little bit. Okay that's great yeah. Lots of very exciting. And an you. And diana know both very well respected for your your work in this area so just imagine. It's going to be a wealth of knowledge for the great. So congratulations on that thing. I'd also love for you to speak a little about teach. Some conversation design. Can you tell us a little about that. Part of what you do. Yeah totally. I teach at pratt. Which is a design school. Like i mentioned and my class is called conversational. You ex design. it's four Has a school of information and within that they have a department that essentially they're like you x. department and they call it experienced design because it has kind of like a lot of up with some library science stuff like information architecture and so Mike class is An elective that students in that program and it's been amazing. My students are like super smart and responsible and they already know when they get to me about like you x. Research and general design principles. And so we just kind of take the expertise. They've already been building. And then go crazy learning about conversational interfaces like we cover chat bots voice stuff weird stuff and they're working their final projects right now cool and those final projects. I'm curious about that. Like what kind of projects they are. You able to share any of that sort of stuff. I'm curious what your students at doing. Yeah generally some of them are doing. Voice interactions some of them are doing chat bots and they're all kinds of interesting things stuff like mental health care focused a previous semester. One of my students had such a great idea. It was like a it was like a voice spot. That would call you and help you practice phone job interviews which was really cool. So you know. Some of these ideas are like super creative. Yeah all kinds of. I'm always impressed with them. That that's amazing fantastic Wonderful well one of the one of the things that people know that if they've had dented the voice if they have attended the voiced end before is that we have people like you experts in their field. Come on and have a chance to chat with the ten dis. And they get to come on to ask you questions and so one of the things that i like to sort of discover in in this show is what an i think. I have an idea that now from chatting with you for the last ten ten minutes or so but what are the kind of questions that you would love to get asked on the show like. What are the things that you're really passionate to speak about your sweet spot that you would love to be able to discuss with people if they asked you about it. I love to talk about process like when you when you start design. Had you start design. Wendy start code who bringing developers into the design process. Collaborative teams really loved to talk about that I love to talk about writing and creative applications of these interactions like the arts And yeah i like to talk about you. Know like to get on the occasional soapbox and talk about what i think people misunderstand about conversational interfaces so any of that i definitely answer questions about of amazing and can you share with us. We'll sort of wrap up here but can you share with us. Something that you've worked on personally like you've been so excited about and so passionate about. You're just so pleased with the way it turned out. Something really really cool or exciting to you and what that was you know. Pick just one well and also. I've made a lot of mistakes. So ask me about the to let the guy. That's a good question. Is there something that you've done that really kind of sticks out in your mind that like this is something that i learned from. That's it that's i mean. That's that's a great teaching point as well. Obviously yeah totally. I mean i think that my answer to those questions might be the same The first product that i worked on was this at the start up in gainesville florida from i. Five years was sort of a simulation for nursing students to interview virtual patients and so the nursing students it was essentially making these giant chat bots. That could be interviewed as if they were patient. So you could ask about health history. Their chief complaint. What was wrong with them. Their symptoms all that stuff and that is a product that i'm really proud of because we put a lot of work work with instructional designers in nursing experts and we use a lot of the nursing literature on have effective patient conversations to figure out how to build these chat bots and make them effective. So i am really proud of that because i think the thing that's had the most real world impact in. It's also the place where i screwed everything up. You're a startup. we're crazy we you know. I don't know we made every mistake. We could and then had to fix it so that was like the best S learning absolutely. Oh wow wow. That's great do you. I'm curious because of that. Just because of that that use case do a lot of work in healthcare or not necessarily. I don't do a ton In mind my past. When i was eight of us most recently and did a lot like banking and finance. I mean with the pandemic those call like banking and finance call centers like the call center thing is kind of what a lot of the work is for a lot of conversation designers jer jer. Gotcha well this is great. Thank you so much. I would love for you to take just a moment or two year. Can you share please with the audience. Where can they learn more about what you're doing. Where can they go to follow you. Where can they go to Any resources really that you can share that you'd love people to check out. Yeah the best place to find me is on twitter. My handle is our evan. Ho dislike no punctuation and you can also find me on lincoln. Those are pretty much. Where where i'm at and Yeah if you're watching this and you find me on there make sure you say hi. Awesome and i put the name of their People can see. There's the spelling and professor you. I think it's pretty obvious. Now from your discussion to why you are professor x. I love that nickname. It's amazing so thank you again very much for spending some time with us here again. I'll remind everybody that if you want to speak with rebecca personally then join us december sixteen the voice then she will be on their professor. You x along with four other answers going to be a lot of fun and it's five. Pm pacific it really can just go the voice in dot com so again. Thanks so much for your time. And we'll see you very soon things terry there. You go hope you enjoyed that podcast episode. Certainly if this has you intrigued you or any interest in the area of conversation design then you certainly should reach out to rebecca encourage you to do so. She is very welcoming very friendly and would be only too delighted. I'm sure to To hear from you really interesting discussion again. Thank you rebecca. For taking the time. I look forward to seeing you on the voice and again all of you listeners. Northern voice and everyone else Please consider joining us for the next episode of the voice. Dead on december sixteenth. Have a wonderful wonderful week. And i will talk to you again take care.

rebecca nine years brooklyn dr terry fisher three hour rebecca ivanhoe alexa diana deibel kathy pearls Gene gola diana pratt five years lewinsky gainesville becca rosenfeld media Evan the west coast terry
part 2:Tony Black

Thoroughbred Racing Radio Network

30:35 min | 1 year ago

part 2:Tony Black

"Is going to. Have you seen this commercial. University of Arizona race track. Industry program can prepare you for an exciting career in racing. Turn your passion into. Horse racing sports staffer. Todd pletcher to and lots of other major players in every area the industry. Like what well for starters we have graduates who are executives of Churchill downs naira Darlie America Gulfstream Keeneland, you name it. They're also regulators racing officials. bloodstock agents track announcers Mike Class had a job placement rate of ninety percents. Wow, what other college program has results like? What career are you on the University of Arizona? Racetrack Industry Program Enroll today and get on track for success. Nearly ninety percent of our students are employed in the racing industry immediately upon graduation for scholarship opportunities and more check out our website at UA ash. RT IP DOT Org. Now back to at the races with Steve. Beck on Sirius Xm radio. GO-TO? Tab exactly ninety minutes to. Our first day at Belmont Park first day at any racetrack. or any remote broadcast unless you consider the daily show from green witch. For My from my desk. From the home, studio, as unless you consider that a remote. But no, not since Vegas It's just incredible that we've gone. My God march. April may June four months. During a period where normally we, we were going to be on the road. Between. Between March mid March and valmont would have been on the road all, but I think ten days a was the original was the original schedule so I was excited to just to get here for these two days and the atmosphere. Today was actually I thought surprisingly. Brisk there was some media coverage they were. They were huddled around Raylucia Ariza's. They were all excited. That was ray. Lui was there was their big opportunity for some quotes this morning and Ray Lou A. A really well-spoken and polished a young writer. So he he made, he made good copy today I'm sure you'll see locally on the on some sports reports later today tonight. I mentioned going into the break about the pick five at Indiana while we were on the break I did the pick five number from Canterbury same thing twice. The Parlay Parlay three forty eight yesterday that was with to. Odds on favorites, even odds-on favorites four forty in the first leg, three twenty in the third leg, there was a ten to one. In the second leg and that fifth race that Maiden Group paid twenty two dollars. Who was the fifth choice? But then the other two winners were second choices so too heavy favorites to second choices, and then one horse. You have to kind of pan for to a degree that was lady hideaway with the love very and this one for Tony, nor so ringstorff off to a a nice start at Canterbury. Three forty eight parlay it paid seven Oh eight. Ten Percent Pick five at Canterbury eleven point nine nine at Indiana. They're paying two three times. The parlay, every single race day at a plus a lot of people really enjoyed Canterbury Mike yesterday and So much fun to kind of memorialize his fifty six thousand dollar pick five hit at Canterbury last week. The really enjoyed that and the Dylan, Donnelly visit that. People are going to be absolutely rallying around. Dylan in his quest to be the tour winter, an amazing story and actually Eric, Wing wrote A. Moving. Blog entry about Dylan. Oh, I'll dig that up and get that. Out On twitter, if you haven't seen it, so really fun yesterday Tony Black standing by and Tony's got the opportunity to do some soap boxing not that he doesn't take that opportunity every week, but In particular Tony. Given the news this week from Kentucky last week from California. People who've never sat on the back of the horse are going to dictate to jockeys. What's safe and what's reasonable about handling the crop Good Morning? Good minus Dave and I love when you play that introduction standby cut was June fifteenth nine hundred seventy fifty years ago. June thirteenth I wrote that horse stand by me. Believe it was just fifty years ago and it seems like just yesterday. Yeah, and it really does irk me when somebody that wears a suit and tie took Greece and his kind of described as a suit. Man. is going to tell me a guy put on jockey boots and and silks and and those. Beautiful White Dance with beautiful leg on amusement. Tell me how to use a stick and chances. Are He never been pleasure writing every once in a while you get stewards. Dan with a qualified stuart that highly qualified because they were inexperienced, successful retired Reiner. This is my my problem when it comes to Them dictate to me how to use my stick of when it comes to racing every situation isn't identical, and every horse doesn't handle identically the same way. Now the stick. If you have Stewart's up in that standard, know what they're looking at. You don't need a special. You have people that are monitoring the races. They know what they're looking at. If you have people out there that know what they're looking at, and they will pull a writer up and say listen. We write that way, and this will not be tolerated and it wasn't going to be tolerated today or ever. Ever again you misuse the stick and it'll be someone who riders respect and know that they know what they're talking about and you. You know most of the time you know you down, you say yeah. That was uncalled for and they have signs of dispension that they can hand out without a special rule. They have jurisdiction in every case or anything. A writer does on on the racetrack, so you don't need special. when you start dictating the amount of times, you can hit the horse. You're actually creating a situation where Moose GonNa be liable. If I try to follow those rules and something happens to make and I. had it in the back of my mind following those rules. Who's WHO's liable for detaining those rules to me and if I get hurt, what am I gonNa do I'm not gonNA. Sit there and just take it on the chin. Believe liability to get people's attention. the the thing that I'm really concerned with. There are sticks out there that you can. Acquire. If you WANNA stick. That that I've had experience with. In not tell you which one it is, but. That doesn't inflict pain, but makes a lot of noise. You know there's a stick out there. That does that and I. Don't know why. It hasn't caught on rebound Dominguez Berg. Qualified Famer, he that stick is beautiful. I have one I would use any other sick on a horse and I use that in the morning, and even wrote a race in, but I don't ride a Lotta Racist. But I don't tell nobody. But that still makes a lotta noise. It doesn't inflict. Pain makes noises. What a Lotta horses react to. It's also got a identity phone about a seven or six a seven inch proper. Would you want to call it a proper tubular high density foam that when you you could hear I could hit you with Steve and you wouldn't. Even make a red mark on you, but it would sound like an explosion. That's what I love about that stick at makes a Lotta noise and doesn't impact a lot of pain and that I could see if you wanted to put. Out there to say we're going to. Trial Basis. Everyone has to use this type of. Let's do it on a trial basis. Don't put a rule out there to tells me Oh. You can hit them certain amount of time after a certain point in the race, you know a stick is not a steering device I understand that it's not a total control device I understand that, but it is an assistant to control it. Assist you in controlling a horse, and that assistance sometimes may be saved your ass from going through the inside or the outside fence that it's you know I. Have misinterpreted as a control device. It's not you know. Many writer got days because Stewart said you're the you know That stick you don't steer them. What your stick I understand. You don't care what you stick, but the stick is a last resort. If the rains at the bit aren't working where you can tap on the shoulder and maybe get them to go in or out or change leads, you can tap on the muzzle of the knows the saw part of the notes it it. It's a last resort. It's an assistant. fisting it assist you in your control. It's not a controlled by. That's understood, but you don't need special rules. What you need special people up there watching the race. That's what you be. And Tony th the crop question that Ramon Dominguez developed I. Got I should get Ramon and He. And Sharon Gupta Saratoga. it's called. The three sixty gentle touch is is what it is, and it physically. It looks different. It's got that you mentioned that that hollow Foamy Tube and it's funny because. But it works yes. And Ramon of course. Ramon in his day. If he had come up in an era when they had nicknames the. slasher would have been I, mean he? He wielded a serious crop of the. Let's be frank Yes. Being called Chapman. Remind a? Bigger and heavier. The mine and I didn't use. Mine is like. He did. That is worthy of being adopted in in. Every racing jurisdiction. I don't know why they haven't allowed it to be adopted and you even on a trial basis by every rider. Writers oppose it well, then they better get back up with the the century because he better not post something like that. That type of stack this rule. What gets me? Is The jocks guilt steps in after the fact and that should have been. Friday they've been they've been. The problem is Tony they they've been and and we'll get johnny to discuss this. Maybe next week would be you know once we get this data the way at Belmont Day. I Wanna get Johnny and maybe Terry makes to discuss it because they've been at the table. They've been involved the frustration that they're expressing is that. It's essentially. Their seat at the table is is strictly an illusion that they're leading the part of the discussion, but they're not. They're not listening to anything. They say, and they're just going ahead and doing something that they think is going to placate. Let let let let's be honest. Nothing's GonNa placate these people. They'RE A. They got Tony if you're if. The when it comes to the guard kills representation. It's weak at best it used to be a stronger organization, and there were things that jockeys could do that gave the guilt strength and it and it was only the of the money that he's jockey contributes guild on a daily basis. At this particular time, the guild has no bargaining power because the bargaining chip was taken away when Reid is used to get together and say if you WANNA run today. And you want to have the participation of jockey colony. You won't do this or you won't do that, but now racetracks don't care if you're run or not. As long as the casinos open, they don't care jocks. Stand together and say we're not right. And that was the only bargaining chip that the jocks skills ever had were riding were not right. We wound up getting hundred dollar Jacksonville where we wound up getting ten percent of win and five percent per second and third. That was because we stood together. We we, we really band together as writers that you want to run this what we want and you had a bargaining chip, but really. Really those days are over and the the whole representations of jockeys. Is We at best, and the yield outlived its usefulness. Really, that's the best way I. Can put it and I tell me that I said if you, so, if you're so, you're yourself as well to managements and had is much strengthened management. As you think you have what riders you're selling yourself and your story to riders. Times I, even said it just BS in these writers. You know I have some more respect, but I don't have much respect because all you're doing, is you're you're selling an idea? The jockey that doesn't exist anymore and you don't have any clout of screens to sell the management or lacing commissions. Racing Organization doesn't. That's. Tony, I'M GONNA I listen I you you've over the years and then this goes all the way back to proximity of the Gert Manian fiasco. And you and and several other. Experienced lie detectors had had tried to warn everybody what was happening and they didn't WanNa. Listen and that that's a that's. A key. Point in in Guild you know in the travails of the guild that that has kind of put them in a in a in less a spot with less authority A. Explain and I'm going to send this link from a story at thoroughbred. A story that Ramone wrote last April about the three sixty gentle touch I think people will will appreciate the story And he, he explains the safety elements of Y. You guys have to carry a crop at all and eat a what portion of its use. You know beyond trying to get a horse to to give more other than that. How else it's used and I got two questions explain. That element about the use of of a stack and what it's doing, and how you utilize it beyond trying to exhort the horse to to give more effort and. At the same time part of that the story line. Well. Let's start with that and I've got a follow up actual okay. just yet understand how they see things. Their eyesight is a big part of their performance. When you have a stick in your hand, and it's down usually keeping it out of the eyesight of that horse, it's it's cops down. It's not caught up caught down. It's it's the proper face pointing to the ground when you want to get your horses attention, yeah, you could snap on the shoulder while proper pointed down, but a lot of times. What you do you cock your stick up? That's when you'll see. A jockey throws forward and comes up that. The He will be paying attention to the movement of your hands in that Dick now. Let's say horses get now. You're going to try to do is handle the horse with the rain and the mouth. What you know certain things they have. A ton of different bits out there, but it doesn't help you that there's a ton of different bits out there. That maybe would help. You Control that horse if he's getting out, reset man while you're riding the race in that bit back in the room, and it's not on that horse, so the US the reins as you hearing device well, guess what it's not totally working sources still getting out real bad throw by stick up cockpit and I'll wave it in front of his eyes. Wave it just the wave it, you know he'll sees a pop, or and that's the Nice thing about Ramon stick. It's It's about a six and a half seven inch proper. It's a tool and it's a high density foam. You can't help but to see it, so you wave that opera now. He's still getting out, but he's thinking twice about. It sees years looking at the sick. If he's like look in the sick, you wave it now. You WanNa. Get his attention. You reach down in your cracking on the shoulder with it, and the shoulder might make him if you need like crazy. On his great lead around attorneys on as long lead might make pop over to his left the top. Lead running strayer well now he comes threat. You signed to bear out again. You might be over on his shoulder. Smacking wave the stick adding the site of it is a fact of as the feel of it, and that's what horses respond a lot, too not the feel of pain to stick the feel they respond to the sound of this debt, the site of the stick and that's why I love. Bone, stick I. Just don't understand why that hasn't been adopted, but you got some dump rule. That's GonNa Limit, how many times you can touch a horse when you can touch him, so many yards out of the gate. That's all BS. Get the equipment that works best on that horse, and if a stick like this one that Ramon has developed works best. Let's adopt that said. Let's see what we have to do with the you know maybe. Limiting the use which I that. That's ridiculous. You don't have to make rules. Limit the use yet. People up in the Stuart stand that have the respect of riding colony that knows something about riding a horse and. Can help you limit the user stick by finds the suspensions. If they feel your abuse, it using it in abusive manner. Now. They're the people that run the show, not somebody that's the commissioner sitting in the office watches the races at once a month as hearings. You know he makes the rules. Should be based on people that are actively. Involved in the business. The Stewart's one of should be a rider that knows what it is to sit on courses back and does what he's looking at not some guy. They say well. He took entries for six years parks. Philadelphia par he took entries, so you know and he watched a lot of races. He was GONNA patrol judge at the quarter pole. Yeah, he watched them. Did he ever sit on a horse now? And forget me. They got people making these rules that never sat on a horse Negra voter race, and they're telling me how to conduct myself on courses back. I mean there's no other industry that would allow that to go one. You Know I. Don't know if it was a NASCAR. The they put me as a Nascar Stewart. They never drove a race. You think the writers have much drivers would have much respect for me because Oh yeah but I drove my My grab four Toyota hundred thousand out. Yeah, that that that would be about the same equivalent of putting somebody that took entries in the Stuart Dan. Tony and then separately. Considering that the overhand use when you know when the stick is lifted above. The shoulder let's say the meaning the jock shoulder. Not The horses shoulder. The overhand and the raising the hand and hitting hand is there in. Mean terms of visuals if the stick was being used down low on the shoulder and and in a more Sort of a less. Visually invasive method. Either cocking it. You know on on the. On either side of the neck, is there. Is that a practical suggestion to just say you know overhand use at just use the stick down low and use it. you know judiciously and. Hit a basically, the visuals would be improved. Considering that it's the visuals that were. We're trying to address your anyway. The visuals will be improved the assisting you as a using it as an assistant of assistance controlled you by an assistant control are controlled by the assistance. Control will be greatly. Factors negatively affect the. Fact that because. Pointing the stick down, limit you from really waving forwards in and holding in two. Horses Vision where he can see. Where if you have it cocked up, you can actually like wave it up and down in front of his eyes in front of his. Is You know we're advocaat down? You got one hand on the rain and the other hand is GonNa just wave it once back and forth, and then you've got the hand back on rang. You can't. Can't hold it out there. Because can't reach out far enough to hold it out there. We're the stick the length of the stick with you. Hold it out there far enough because you will be caught up and you use the length of the stick style. You all get out there I. You know they've been. They've been writing. which sex for all these years and If you wanted to say. Improve the stick do that, but don't limit a rider in using it and my and if you want to really. Limiting and US and let the stewards be the ones that are qualified one of these be qualified to pool a rider up and say we watch glad you did, or you know an absolute. No now if you hit the worse overhead, what are you nuts at the suspension? You're out You know we watch. You're going down. The back side is wasn't responded and you just sat there whaling on him. What do you do it? You came up to stretch. You beaten twenty length, and you just sat there whaling on. What are you doing? What are you doing? At Paul, and. There's one thing that riders do And more so than any other part of the business. You know sure fine with suspension. You know what's on. You can watch these races for the next day. Right, and that's the play of getting your point across. You'll be watching them. You Ain't going to be riding. And that's what the people that are qualified respected. The tell you how to use it not a blanket rule. You're telling me forget what your instinct you know and writers. Dry With strategy they right with instinct. It's what you feel at the time. Oh well forget all your instinct and just do what we tell you. You know these aren't cards. They don't have steering wheels and brakes that are supposed to be in good order. These are horses that respond differently to certain situation. I mean I've seen horses respond to a piece of paper on the racetrack and drunk jumped sixty air. Get over top of it. Yeah, I. I've. I've seen horses. See The outside fence and I actually being site pinnacle one day I went right through it landed in the gutter at the three eighths pole. You know they don't respond the same way to every situation. I've been one I. thought there was one Liberty Bell. The bit did was working in his mouth. He jumped the outside fence and landed on a car that was parked along the outside fence and I-. I landed next to the car. Tony I appreciate, you know. Get, them No. No. You He's nineteen seventy fifty years ago I rolled. My first rate soars one, eight, hundred, six, forty I. I've ridden. What thirty four thousand raises since then and you know what the probably been on five times that many horses in the morning so sure I think I have an opinion. It's probably not liked by everybody, but it's my opinion. One getting on horse is probably been on one. If you believe in God one of every kind of God created I've been on. So! Many. Ways of doing this, but it's not putting a blanket. Rule out there, that's not the way to go. And you open, you also open a as part of this discussion also opened up the. The. Whole, element that. You know that the stewarding. The stewarding in question that has come up repeatedly in recent years, the stewards. And not being proactive. For many years now in terms of educating writers as to what is acceptable, what isn't sitting him down when when they're out there? Endangering each other and the horses th-the hurting. We've discussed this hurting topic Ad Infinitum and You know for the point of of exhaustion. Frankly and yet it continues, and this all gets back at you and Richly Ori of disgusted back to film school, and how they're used to be a much more. Involved Steward Jockey. Interaction and that you know it, just it. It has gone the way Of of several, you know of several things. in the game and it it. It probably it probably contributes to where this situation has has arrived. Wait it right on the head. You're absolutely right. Shame that that type of atmosphere between riders and that connection that riders which do. You know when you sat in front of Water Blunt. He didn't didn't t in his ear and tell him it was raining outside. He. Like a walk. You're right. I was he wasn't getting now. I was hitting left handed. You did it before before I watched you drop your stick in the Belmont winning on pass Catcher, so we all say. Like that when you sat in front of that guy, I mean it was almost an honor to be a jockey and him being year, Stuart that you were having a relationship with, and he was there not only. Monitoring what you do teaching you and they were guys that you wrote with you. Don't have that same connection like you said. It's just not there. The relationship between Stewart and jockeys and jockeys being. mentored by someone in that story. That's which we could go back to, but you know what I don't know if we ever will, but you once again hit it right on the head rather back. Tony I really appreciate it. I was looking for and I was kind of holding those two stories from California and Kentucky on the side for you to. You. Know no reason for me to you know start. Speculating. That would be a benefit for jockeys and jeans the PD. In James. On June twenty sixth, seventh and eighth twenty, seventh and eighth. It's been canceled November so jockeys. James won't be Churchill downs on the twenty, sixth twenty seventh and twenty will be November debates haven't been solid yet. Actually. I'm glad you brought it up because I I knew that that we kind of knew anticipated, that was happening and November will be fine, though that that's a that's a great part of the meat at at Churchill. So we'll, we'll get plenty of promotion and reminders for everybody to help raise money for again for PJ F. and The sixty plus riders that have lost use of useful limbs I as a result and Tony. Happy Fiftieth Anniversary I was getting reminders on my calendar that it was this week fifty years. Ago, unbelievable nineteen seventy and Pretty remarkable. People to stand by me to make me laugh. And I always appreciate all the people. Were there backing me and I? Thank them all so much so many owners, trainers and batters and and. Other participants in the sport is beautiful, scored a horse racing that helped me laughs doggies years. Thank you one fifty years like I said it seemed like yesterday loved every minute of it. And he's still a good work the Tony. Black, everybody and he still has. Almost all of the hair that he had a that that I the first win fifty years ago. June fifteenth Tony Black everybody. Right here we've got exactly an hour and Steve, asking standing.

writer Tony Nascar Stewart Stuart Dan Ramon Dominguez Steve Indiana University of Arizona Tony Black US Churchill Todd pletcher Kentucky Beck Tony I Sirius Xm Belmont Park Dylan Raylucia Ariza
Part1 : Mike McCarthy,

Thoroughbred Racing Radio Network

1:13:13 hr | 1 year ago

Part1 : Mike McCarthy,

"Sirius XM FORTS PRESENTS RAISES WITH Steve. Big Horse racing handicapping interviews. This is Steve. Race fans serious to nineteen accent to a one sports on nine sixty four listening to Sirius. Xm online at our website. St BIC DOT COM as well. Hope you had a productive weekend certainly certainly had enough compelling opportunities there that part of it really cooperated Friday Saturday Sunday Friday night if you were latched onto the early late evening early morning action in Australia had that of course and then into the big card Saturday at Oakland and and then Gulfstream with the rainbow yesterday really fun sequence daddy cap little little bit of a ticket building exercise really and we'll talk about that. I probably mostly would johnny in our too but the opening salvos here have to be about Oakland and a tremendous Saturday for them that they had record record handle number but the handle the secondary honestly to what we were treated to. The you know we can speculate on races and and look at. Pp's and all that and hope that you know you're going to be treated to something special. Well you were treated. There's something special I that not. Just the apple blossom either. I don't WanNa take away at all. From what is a double barrelled in a headline out of Saturday at Oakland because both stakes the whitmore? We'll talk to Michael McCarthy and Ron Maguette and Whitmore winning third count fleet in four years. That's a pretty incredible accomplishment at a horse that is just maintained form and nearly every time these lead over fires a competitive shot the big story. Though is the grade one. The Apple Blossom Fourteen Horsfield and from handicapping and betting standpoint you couldn't have had a more nuance and it. It's it starts with the winner in a lot of ways I it starts with C. C. Who from the fourteen whole you have to feel was compromised? And if you if you had a way to neutralize if you had a way to neutralize the post positions and if indeed all fourteen berths were completely fair and somehow somehow there wasn't there wasn't banking on the turns and there wasn't you know there wasn't ground lost the deal with if you just did it from that standpoint the CC was was the horse to beat and it a you wouldn't have discounted her chances however from the fourteenth hole and with a style that just seemed like it might. It might compromise her and find her wide into the first turn and it just seemed like it was a an assignment. That was going to be very tricky. I mean and for those that read what I wrote up. I said that maybe Espinosa chooses not to lose ground. And we'll see what Michael McCarthy says but maybe they sort of Tuck in and and gain position later on the backstretch and you know take that approach and that she could be good enough to change her style somewhat and then maybe attack a little bit later and that is kind of what transpired at meanwhile and she obviously C. C. Is in a really at the top of the the distaff class right now with back-to-back raid ones. And I it's a nice story to because the Abo- Hirsch in fact the really the the one two finishers in here and I don't want to completely go off on on C. And how wonderful you know from. All of that Ali's candies performance was so exceptional. That it's that it's just I think I called mind-blowing and Ajan Sadler between Ali's candy getting to the lead from the inside asked obediently by Rosario Establishing position being chased and and being engaged repeatedly and to some degree what was going on to her outside You know was easy to envision to cookie dough who was alongside seren getty emphasis in the gate. You figured that cookie dough was going to extend seren getty emphasis into the turn. And that's exactly what happened and splits of twenty two and one forty five and to one ten in one every horse every horse that was on the pace and even some that we're close to the pace cookie dough had the lead I call and then all these candy had the lead at every point at that point except the wire and surrogate empress if third third second it looked like she might be in position to stay on and then started to backup. Come dancing off the lay off and going to turn mile and a sixteenth. For the first time she was chasing cold. Water was chasing hundred longest out on the board. I mean all these horses are pressing chasing prompting and all these candy stays on stays on stays on and did not easily relinquish the lead late. I just an unbelievable effort in defeat the horses that were pressing and chasing unbelievable. Seren empress heads up eleventh come dancing twelfth cookie dough last fourteenth so horses that were first third and fourth and second third and fourth at the first two calls back after a quarter mile and a half ended up eleventh twelfth and Fourteenth and Ali's candy kept going I mean that is as spectacular and effort and defeat as you're going to see just unbelievable the the the other Sadler and I'll stay with Sadler for a minute. Flagstaff in running second to whitmore did not start great and found himself in an awkward position in deference to what he usually likes to do and his rally. I mean he wasn't beating Whitmore. Obviously Abbott. He came running and got got beat ultimately a diminishing three quarters of a length but Talamo would pretty much wrapped up on whitmore but the story line is to some degree the performances of the John Sadler Horses John. I wrote this yesterday morning. Actually John Sadler so often when it comes to shipping out of town comes with the asterisk. You know doesn't ship can't win outside of California except when he does. Kirwin rules won the NIGHTCAP and In fact Nick Dictum Rio. I think gave everybody the the push on on Kirwin rules but curling rules had been at at at Oakland. Flagstaff and Ali's candy. They came in from Santa. Anita they did ship in so I know some people said well. He's got the string there. He's got a string but he shipped in the two that ran second in the in the two graded stakes So pretty outstanding then wins the NIGHTCAP. So a win in two seconds for John South as you probably actually reach out to John it. It was a really fun. They racing How about point of Honor? Third closing steadily. You know despite that pace you have one of the things again we talked about. Was that Oakland for the deepest closers. Yes Creator I put up that picture of from four years ago yes asmussen and Creator one from downtown but generally the not the easiest track to make up ground point of honor and street band. They came running. So did Sarah at one hundred and two to one and V gets the last check. Harajuku was mid pack and seemed like she was in striking distance. And and kind of just You know a little bit of a little bit of a faure and and then just kinda backed off a little bit at a rally just on the bottom of of plays go google yourself. Same kind of trip sort of that middle pack trip never got as close actually is third at at you. Know at the top of the stretch but this belong to the top pair C. C. and Ali's Candy and Nice placement for The Eggert's Paul and Karen Eggert they only they only breed and floor says think they've only got two or three broodmares a year and they sell some and Ali's candy actually was worse that nobody wanted another one of those stories like just like came home or is that nobody wanted at the sale could have been yours for reason. I think the I think I wanNA say fifty thousand was the reserve when Ali's candy went through the Ring a yearly. So just a really fun day I I hope Everybody enjoyed it as much as As much as I did anyway and I should also include of course in the conversation the the wind break even and I. I don't she wires and Rosario wasn't taking any chances about getting heard of the lead she has to have it to be successful. I I don't know I don't know if she's the same if she's you know kind of move forward yet. It just doesn't. It just doesn't seem like she's was a Nice Win. And it got a you know a decent fig but it just doesn't seem like she's better at four. Let's put it that way. It seems like she is pretty much the same horse that she was as a three year. Old and of course it's still somewhat early in the year but One thing that that Brad Cox is going to certainly insist on going forward. I think from a whoever whether When maybe when Sean Ridge Mahan gets back on her at at Churchill when they get started and Brad did say she's GonNa head back into into stakes company. Next time. This was a good way to right the ship and she you know. She faced off against the solid group. But we'll save been still nice to win and abby always for the clients and Country Day now seven for nine only off the board. Finish really the an off performance. Was that return race in the spring fever so she writes the ship quite nicely. I need I tell you a funny weekend. We'll talk about some vetting for a minute before we before we go to the break. It was such a funny weekend. I I was very happy with the way I captain. I wasn't even unhappy with the way I bet the but didn't really come away with anything significant And there was opportunities. There were places to make money. We should mention also the star of that. Pick five at at oaklawn where Desmond Really had to be have to be ridden like a bicycle till to get up and with at three two two How about the performance of ever faster than there? Yeah Ever fast was Was terrific and We'll keep an eye on him and But the blinkers on Jackson looking for looking for new things. We'll see this was a to turn mile. We'LL SEE HOW SISTER. Sohn proceeds with the ever fast but Desmond a winner for Baffert and it was on board was Rosario no Martin Garcia. How about that? So those of you that are tracking Baffert and the Martin Garcia relationship together again. The you know the rest of it. I don't know I. It just was such a weird day. There were and weekend virtually every virtually every horse. I tried to key off of at decent prices. I- headland in that race with break. Even I tried to key off of Hedlund only needed her to finish second. She gets beat. The half length couldn't get the good couldn't get past mount brave it just kinda was like that every every which way we'll talk. I'll save the. I'll save the other thing I'll save the degrom. There's another one I needed to grab. I thought to Graham was absolutely the horse to beat in that nightcap and ended up using degrom is alone. A and he was just too far back corey lottery. Hatem really languishing and then comes. Running gets beat. You know a couple of links. Kirwin rules and and arrival. Hey rival Ingrid Mason high spoilt boy never bet. There's somebody I never bet right but Yeah it was. It just just came up. Short repeatedly should mention too. When we talked to mcquay he also won the rainbow not the rainbow sex. He won the rainbow on Friday. The Arkansas bread man in the camp who was bet down to second choice the can the man Jay read a young thoroughbreds thoroughbred and then there was also will be will be van meter at Sakani. Who had off as the second choice? Sakani under Under Canon and stock than pounced and one nicely the Double Irish. Filly also home bred by John. Ed Anthony some home cooking hot springs and of course that operating under short leaf staples these days since his return to the game. So that was the stakes action and the whole weekend. They did over nineteen million dollars at at Oakland on Saturday. A record handle to more weekends it hot springs and for those that we bring this up last week about what they were doing They'RE NOT GONNA. They're not gonNA continue with a beyond closing weekend. And of course I should mention. I sent the picture to John Nichols. Congratulations the John. By the way who qualified for his eleventh straight HCE over was it yesterday. I think yesterday great job by John. Lewis those Gooda Andy capper observer of horseflesh better and contest player as the wrist. But normally normally this I guess maybe what maybe we should call him anyway. Because I do have about ten twelve minutes before and McCarthy and then Johnny Dee and more maybe we should call Casey try to reach their and we'll have the not the invocation because typically at nine twenty the Monday two weeks out from Derby Derby fortnight we have the Darren Rogers invocation. I think we needed. Anyway let's take a break lots to do back after this with Steve on Sirius. Xm Radio Relation two year olds in California and Cucchi pleaseconsider leadership leading all natural pace. He's the greatly reduce or eliminate the IP H. The worst of trainers trust leader. Shield shouldn't journey to learn more contact. Joseph allante fights your business of horses in the world's only accredited equine business program the University of Louisville Equine Business Program. The University of Louisville has a legacy of excellence for more than twenty five years of equine business. Education classes are taught by industry experts in state of the art facilities located in the heartland of America's Equine Industry the University of Louisville Equine Business Program. When it comes to horses we mean business for More Information Visit Business Dot Louisville Dot Edu slash equine here in Pennsylvania. We have the best breeding program in the country. Thanks in part to a Resource Development Trust Fund. It's a trust. It's not tax dollars and by law are fund is completely protected. These difficulties for all of us. What life in America? It's back to normal and it will. Our P A breeding program will be here stronger and better than ever to learn more about how we're protecting the trust. Go TO RED DOT COM to watch a short video. I've ever seen this commercial off University of Arizona race. Track Industry Program can prepare you for an exciting career in racing. Turn Your Passion into the Horse Racing School of thought that Todd Pletcher to and lots of other major players in every area of the industry like what well for starters we have graduates who are executives at Churchill downs naira Darlie America Gulfstream keeneland. You name it. They're also regulators racing officials. Bloodstock agents track announcers. Mike Class had a job placement rate of ninety percent. Wow what other college now. Back to at the races with Steve Vic on Sirius. Xm Radio Some juice chiefs uh-huh. We're back raises leave. Let this go a little. I love this. We haven't heard this in forever and Well we see. We can't seem to find can't find a big deal all right. Well let's do bad I I'll tell you know what I should put up that picture. I've got I've actually. I'm sure there'll be a lot of this over the next over the What thirteen days leading up to? What would have been Oaks Derby weekend? What what you know what What would you have been doing today tonight tomorrow? There would have been what would have been thunder. Right would have been thunder over Louisville Saturday Saturday. Night right yeah so no Chuck Wagon. No Parade Noboa Edison. What are you going to be? Fine we're GONNA WE'RE GONNA make Make make do and make out and of course You know the build up the build up to Arkansas. Derby Day is going to be okay that that That will have to suffice and there are you know next couple of days. We'll probably get some some updates Of course one thing. I can mention the if you didn't see the you know the release from Stronach Group. You know they had a teleconference with the La county health officials. And they they. They said that they were encouraged. They made their case for getting started restarted at Santa Anita explaining in other safety elements. And I I suppose bringing up the Arboretum hoping across the street the you know the other venues everybody is is in this supposed to be a decision. I guess in the next couple of days The the speculation and hope in New York is that by sometime after this latest governor Cuomo parameter that once we get past that bid mid May that The Belmont will get started. I I know there's people that are declaring that they know from inside sources. I there's nothing to know about Saratoga. Other than that. The people that work for NYRA continue to make the arrangements as if Saratoga is going to be conducted and if conditions change then then they'll be you know appropriate change to go with it but as of right now there is. There is no internal memorandum. That that there's not going to be a Saratoga. I I mean that that just as I mean. This is just crazy at a and granted. You know we've got a vehicle D- in terms of communication these days with with this with the twitter where you know wild dogs run free And you know just say know things that may have a kernel of truth and and at a Bushel of speculation and Alleged knowledge it just it. It's not productive really isn't so but the other venues that Churchill. Same thing I mean. They're they're in constant contact with the governor's office and when Frankfurt provides an indication that it might be okay to get started without you know without patrons they'll get going. I mean everybody is in the same for the most part in the same arena. And we'll wait and see about you know Indiana and Prairie Meadows and the places that are close to getting ready to to kick off seasons Lonestar not far off either One place we got a mention and we'll certainly get plenty of mentioned in over the next couple of days finer park has got a couple of things happening. There's another force out tomorrow of their pick five and we'll talk to the second about Though as I said I'm going to save it a little bit for Johnny. But they're going to do another force out We'll talk about the Gulfstream sequence in a second but they also have reached out to the appropriate parties in in Nebraska about extending the meat through may so far honor to their credit looks to continue beyond the original end date of the meat so the fodder may continue through it. Looks like and speaking of Founder today let me mention? There is a little thirty thousand dollars. Stake Nebraska breads fourth race today. Six Twenty One eastern Group of Eight and The Finer Park special is the steak today and I see a I see. I see a son of skip shot. I`Ma skipped shot fan. Mister big shot seventy two from Dave Anderson interesting. I'll look at this. Maybe we'll look at this later. I I think nick I talked to nick last night. The camera and nickel probably join us. Tomorrow we'll go through the fodder sequence the pick five tomorrow and they're up over a quarter of a million. They'll probably add another. I don't know seventy five eighty thousand today or more and the sequence tomorrow starts in race five six forty eight eastern time and you have fields of ten six and a half furlongs three up. Non Winners of three by certain date. Feel the ten. They're and ups then. You got phillies and mayors for a nickel going six. Feel the nine. You've got another six furlong thirty five hundred non winners one cents. A date got a pair of the Ise Gonzales Horses. That are favored. Five to two and seven to two and then you gotta as a feature nice feature phillies mayor's going six optional. Claimer NON ONE THOUSAND FOUR LIFETIME. Pretty solid group with Some high fifties low sixty buyers feel the ten and then it closes out with a five thousand nine winners of two going a mile so nice sequence ten by nine by nine by ten by ten we all right. So that's the pick five tomorrow and it's probably going to be well over three hundred thousand so figure who knows one point one point one point four. I don't know one point. Five million give or take and it will rogers today while we got a second as well will rogers. Today they've got the cinema stakes a fifty five thousand dollar three year old filly mile event. Feel the seven and email has got the Bob Zoellner home-bred. She's all wolf. Who has been facing open company? Been getting beat up a little bit against Open Company and a return. I think too. Yeah think of return to two friends and family might helper. She's she's a magna graduate. This the best part of these. I gotTa tell you the best part. I've said this of these races will rogers and have been the regional bred horses and some of the some of the stallions skip shot and and Magna graduate. How great is that and actually the this is out of this horse is out of. She's all in. This is a nice it. She was a stay course. She's all in the include Maher right. Yeah almost I almost positive. She's all in an I'm almost positive. And then tomorrow there's the boys version or at least they a boys miles steak this three year old. Yeah it's the yeah it's corresponding. I am not three ups. It's colts and geldings. And they're gonNA mileage the will rogers tomorrow just to five Horsfield though there and Scott. Young with the favourite southgate. There you go so it is Monday. Tuesday will rogers and finer and then Wednesday Tampa comes back into focus as well. So there's the early part of the week we'll take will stay here. I've got a couple more minutes. And then we casey we gotta figure out McCarthy in both came back and said can can you take me at at at forty five. So we'll see we'll see who is easier to adjust Mentioned the fix yesterday. Gulfstream pays twenty thousand. And this was A. It's funny because this was a sequence. And Gus and I both put up opinions and to me. It seemed like this was very much a form. Full looking sequence. Yeah sometimes you look and it looks gus this with Johnny and maybe with Andy Tomorrow. This is a good topic when you look at multi-race big multi-race sequences pick pick five pick sixes pick. Threes doubles are a little different but pick four pick five. Pick six where you know. You're GONNA you know you're going to spend twenty four thirty six forty eight seventy two hundred you know whatever one hundred and forty four That's that's I mean. That's my budget range. I'm not I I I will not spend you know. Pick sixes once in a while. We'd we'd get up toward to eighty eight three twenty four those but the but not not all that much I. I much rather better little to win a lot. That's my my own personal approach. But when you when you first handicap these sequences you get a gut feel you know you go through and as you know tate the horses that you think are win candidates. Because that's all you're looking for right near the first pass is who can win this race and who can't and you take out. You know you cross off an ex out as many as you can that just something strange would have to happen and also caution that if you're playing pick four five fixes sixes ee. You you can find races and comprehend races where there's potential for an extreme event a very slow pace or very fast pace however you you don't at least I don't see Johnny says Johnny. Hope you're taking notes. You don't go through these sequences the same way you do. You know looking for a big price horse. You know to key off of on a on an afternoon. I mean if you find a horse in these sequences that's a big price. You want to include them depending on their degree of likelihood ABC. But it's not the same mentality that you have when you are in a looking at a race and trying to find a price key you're going through and you were saying the conditions look straight forward here and if the race is run within eighty percent of the parameters as you see them well then these are the logical results and and those are the horses. You're identifying and at least when I went through this and I did not look at this sequence until yesterday morning I mean I'd I'd printed it and you know it just mentioned the quantities of horses that were lining up the Anticipation but then when I looked at I just kind of gave it the real efficient bottom for the bump and I you know if I look up at the at the numbers you know that that I wrote on the pages you know in that first leg. I had you know Barack I'd the three and then circled the three and five seven and I said you know the three is a very likely winner here with a little five seven. Sure enough yet you know Baraka and in fact teen. I played a ticket together and we ended up singling. Ba- Rica and you know Louis. I gave you a couple of seconds of of Asia. Because he he was you know but then the same thing happened with the second leg of the two of the four in the six you know. Tis Possible Dear Brooks all mine and grace's drama and ended up really kinda focusing on on the on the to win the four his possible deer and Brooks all mine. I thought maybe I thought maybe Denver was a price that might be illegal interesting. But you know kind of stunk. It up Then when it came to the third leg I had five eleven as as and the one nine is as beasts and sure Enough Chris. Landeros gets up with St Ready. One of the. You know the really at that. Point team. You know. We're three for three and I'm thinking fifteen forty a nice price. One mistake I made was with the fourth leg with. Yes I see where I didn't think there was going to be enough of pace and pace was straightforward ordinary. And yes I see was best simply best and I kind of blew it here. I will admit it freely. I made yes. I see my third choice. Behind trapezoid and Il Il Pharaon was God. Awful did not lift a huff. But yes I see who ends up going office. Second choice behind trapezoid and trapezoid didn't necessarily get In position as early as he might have if you were leaning heavily on him and then there was no way Jose and I. I don't know what went on there but that was a very. That was a little odd. I mean I I and I'm not gonNA attack Jay Stones Morning Line but this was down to close the Post. I was down to five to to If if if Andy Sterling was here the would've said they knew and Sixty one no way. Jose was the other price one of the other prices in the sequence and then in the nightcap I really thought mce super was super live in ear and ran fine but follow the flag. And boy you talk about a worse. That's cut out to be a good horse. Oh he cow. This one. The tap out of musha though Mathieu remember cores grade one maybe a melodic a multiple grade one winner. Musha and didn't really run much in her first start. In February and Michael Matt's gives her the makeover ads lasix puts on the blinkers and and I I used the user as the as the fifth horse and Follow the flag. Eight to one essentially and You know this this was. This was tricky. This was a tricky sequence and twenty thousand. Nice payoff for those. That Negotiated it we'll talk more about it with Johnny We also got to give you some some of those Australia results. unbelievable thrilling race in that all age stake. Holy Cow. I put it up on early Saturday morning. I woke I wasn't staying up till two. Am to watch it live but while if you didn't see that race to- fain getting up with with opie how do you how how do Americans not really become a fan of Jockey opie Bosson? Come on I mean come. On opie opie Taylor this is opie Bosson and he gets up with to- fain and he ruins the goodbye final race of PIRATA. Who was who actually was retired. Last year then came back and another season was trying to repeat in the all aged and couldn't do it couldn't it was. You gotta see this. I'll re tweet it again for those. That missed it. Let's take a break here. We've got either McCarthy. I'm real quick but the two of them are going to join us back to back. We'll talk to them about their terrific performances of their charges on Saturday at oaklawn. Brian McDermott third win. For Whitmore in the Count Fleet and Michael McCarthy cc. Repeat grade one winner for Borsch when we come back one or the other McCarthy and then Johnny took with Steve on Sirius. Xm radio develop by horsemen burst. 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Well about back to back raid one wins for the elusive quality. Bow Hirsch home-bred C. C. And off the Boulder Mile Win in mid March comes a apple blossom. When stretches out an extra sixteenth and Michael McCarthy was there at hot springs and got to take it all in and he joins us now Michael. Congratulations took me on this. This was really one of those things that was just organic at being. The Apple. Blossom is always a early season highlight First grade one for the distaff set but the conditions and the circumstances of course bring together a elite field and We might be hard pressed the between now and the breeders this staff you know to have a field like this come together again this year and then you draw the fourteenth home unfortunate circumstances. Obviously we know on big as big fields. These kind of things are going to happen. Look they run. Twenty and horses went from the Auxiliary Gate in the Kentucky Derby though Really like her. Have some tactical speed. Fortunately for us all the horses I thought we had to be drawn directly inside of a on paper. It looks like staring. Getty empress would be the controlling speed and the first quarter of a mile. The complexion of the race totally changed Unfortunately it looks like Joe's hands were tied as they came into the first turn. Cookie dough was kind of keeping him parked out in the middle of the race. Track for Jodi. Get the lead have had to gone. Twenty-one flat Obviously they don't know how much you would have had left for the final quarter of a mile but the way things worked out But maybe a little bit of gamesmanship into the first turn. I'm not sure but we were able to go ahead and find the position. We wanted which is probably three or three like stop them and try not to get stuck to far out into the middle of the racetrack. How much of that elaborate on your conversation with Victor Who We should note by the way hadn't been on a horse in an afternoon in how long. Gosh well we think we've been out of action here for this as we started week number. Five so I don't know what Victor does in his spare time if he rides anything else. I'm not sure So as far as he he writes the exerciser. What are you kidding? The he's on the exerciser. What else is he gonNA do? Yeah exactly exactly so You know I mean you. Guys are amazing. Athletes and Victor World Class. Riders resume obviously shows that so he was lucky enough to time it perfectly maybe made it a little bit too close for comfort on Saturday. But everybody's getting their picture taken. Everyone's getting paid well and part of that and we should talk about the way the race then unfolded because I you know the way you just described the early running. I kinda saw the same thing and and to some degree it. It certainly helped cookie dough ended up lining up in the draw right next the seren getty because if she's elsewhere it may not be the May not unfold after the gates open. You know the way they did but the fact that Those to kind of stretch things out it then opens a slot up and and victor. You know absolutely perfect setting up shop. That was You know that was really quite something the other part of this. I I know you're GonNa WanNa talk about the effort of Ali's Cowan. He Michael I mean for her to run that race when every other pace attendee ended up in the bottom four. It was unbelievable. Yeah that was wild I mean Gerald Kinda took the bull by the horns there I just happened to read after the fact that you know on southern mentioned to them if not to take anything away from him with easily She obviously you. All the best thing to do would go ahead and drawn down on the fence there to go ahead and kind of salvages physician. Early I think almost like the way worked out he got. He got some help from cookie as well by keeping their getty empress out in the middle of the race track So the Philly caught a flyer was a great part of the backside. And we've able to relax nicely. You know For Joel she ran very very gaming feet as I said after the race was over. I don't think anyone deserve to get beat their amazing and The two of them are clear by two plus lancs of Late closing point of honor and street band who were fighting for minor awards and this race. I mean really lived up to the hype and the anticipation and frankly Michael. I mean we're all we're all hungry for entertainment and wagering opportunities This was just what the doctor ordered. Talk about Mr Bush and what this what this Philly at this point. In her four year old season what it feels like to be Seemingly at the top of the Class I you know midnight visa. Obviously you know kind of Waiting in the clubhouse but The staff set is coming together. Pretty nicely it is. It is The longtime support of California racing. Obviously his father was a mainstay here for decades has a great one named after him at Del. Mar called. The Clement. Hirsch was a mile and a sixteenth on dirt Vo and his father procured this family gills magic right magic Or I can't remember. They got they Miss Houdini. They go on magical flashing magical may may go on Generations this is I think is a fourth generation of this family that they've own So to get Papa Clem is obviously of is a big bonus and then to come back you know eight years later whatever. It is nine years later and come up with with Is Huge for him and obviously or cornerstone of his of his of his breeding operation when she retires to to the breeding shed. Well this season now from from this point and give us a little bit of a feel for the post beholder mile and you know what goes on with her in terms of you know her just sort of the maturation process and also knowing that you're getting back out to a mile one sixteenth in this spot. Yeah you know came out of boulder in great shape It was kind of wasting all around here. And the closure and oaklawn being open The apple blossom kind of really piqued our interest Obviously everyone here in California's holding out that racing get back soon. Don't know when going to happen But there was nothing on the calendar for her here anyway our final week before we headed the Oakland was a little bit challenging We had serious rains here at least by California Standards So we had two days of racetrack closure. No one was allowed on the either race track for two days and then when the race tracks did open up it was joggers only for three days so she basically has five days of little to no training The week before the Apple Blossom The second week leading up to the apple blossom. We're able to sneak in a work here on Sunday before. Can't thank Dennis Moore and everybody at Santa Anita? That track was in great shape. After a bunch of rain we were able to slide on in. She worked a wonderful five eighths in Calcutta a super seven eighths of a mile I didn't think there was any reason for us not to go But once we cleared all those obstacles all we had to do is enter up run and then when you enter and they they hit you with some more teams a little bit tough but as the guy sent me a text day good post bad trips guide post good trip so well it. It works out beautifully now. I know she They put around the van yesterday. Right Back sometime late tonight from Arkansas very nice and and I saw where you had said she You would let jen wait. No at Oakland that she had come out of it in a very well. Sunday morning yeah. She's in great shape. How do you? How do you plan for anything at this point Off Two great ones and and I I don't know you look at. Are you already thinking about del? Mar? I've got Give them like circumstances here and by owner as I said having a great one named after his father down here in my hands are tied. I don't think he's GonNa take it nicely for taking well if I tell them. We're going to send her to Saratoga for the summer so We'LL POINT FOR THAT. Clement Hirsch at Del Mar I. I don't know how we get there I don't know if that means we have to go travel somewhere else if someone else has something on the docket. That's enticing to I don't know it's strange times. We're living in. The world is a little bit off access so we have a gut puller the other day. So we're going to go ahead. Bring her back here and give an easy week or two and then Kinda come up with a game plan but we'll let her dictate where she would like to go enough. And meanwhile the Michael. Let's address the other the other topic which is The rest of his string I mentioned in the opening moments of the show. Today that Friday Aidan Butler and and Stronach group had the the meeting Via video with the La County Health Department. I mean what's the feeling there with everybody and and you know what is been you know you just got back Probably for this morning but you know what is the the clockers corner feel and any any indication that they they sounded fairly upbeat about the prospects of resuming racing. I have not spoken to anybody about judging by what I've read Don't like management thought that this meeting went as good as it could possibly go There are some things going on. That are a lot bigger than horse racing with this corona virus But I thought when we did have racing here before we were shutdown. I thought Senator did a wonderful job of only having the particulars and those that needed to be near the horse around There was nobody in the grandstand not receiving barn. No one in the paddock. It was very sanitary the way it was done and I think if they came out and saw how we operated just like Oakland is operating. Just like Gulfstreams oper operating. I think that the county would see you know. I think racing is is okay to go ahead and proceed with the ecosystem back. Here is very delicate as you know It's a trying time for owners. It's a trying time for trainers trainers. Need to go ahead. And keep their staff employed. We cannot furlough anybody. We can't send anybody away. Courses need to maintain owners. Obviously Have a responsibility of you know being stewards of these wonderful creatures. So it's a little bit of a testy situation for everybody or trying to make the best of it. Sandinistas keeping the lines of communication open with everybody I'm not the only guy in this position. Those guys in the Midwest dealing with the same thing New York obviously The crisis in New York seems a little bit more severe than it does here. But it's severe everywhere so let's hope we all get open. We have a great summer and go from there. I love it Well stated Michael McCarthy with us off of sees win Saturday in the Apple Blossom and For those that Haven't kind of look back at. What else has been going on at least in his barn And Michael. You may not even realize this if we go back and animal up your six. Your six year lasts thirteen like it. I like it like this the scheme so hard it was. I was over twenty three between July and August so I'm not a lot. I got a lot to make up for well this this this goes back to March seventh and on March seven. Santa Anita you one with woke up two aces which was a horse we talked about. I think either. I don't know if it was couldn't have been couldn't have been maybe it was. I think we talked about the maiden win after the beholder mile. And this is you know it's a some degree for you personally and your your shed. There's a bunch of horses that are coming off winds that you know that you you're you're giving them a little bit of a kind of freshening that's kind of forced on them and this may pay off down the road you've also got some. Morse's that seem poised to win next out like friars road but talk about woke up to ace's because I think some people are are adding adding him to the to the docket for her for the For the three year old filly scene racing was cancelled on. I can't remember what Saturday it was but I had two horses. In on that Saturday I had the Philly We've spoke of we'll come to aces five and a half furlong allowance race on the turf that I was really excited about running and I had another maiden name Onkar Duma who's trained like he's to be nice horse in his own right So to have been on a day like that when I thought I had to live horses with a little bit. Tough to take Just glad we got the beholder in you know before that But Yeah we've got a handful of forces here that have been ready to run friars road Worked very good five eighths here the other day he is on schedule for a May second maiden special weight going a mile and a nate that oaklawn Park. We hope to get into Woke up to. We'll have to wait for the grass with her so she'll stay here at Santa Anita and we'll keep her wrapped up until we find appropriate race for her And a handful of others. I'm probably going to take to Oaklawn Park as well for a weekend. How about that And you go just going through this you had the two allowance wins before saying th- Anita close lofty as you said the Canyon. Crest had a friars road second last out Speech had been second in the Santa Isabel and so on and so forth. I mean this is just Yeah I mean you seem like you were really poised to jump forward. You know out of the you know the late winter action. Yeah we have had very good spring Last summer we had over a dozen horses get little small nagging injuries. That needed some time. So when we went through our prior closure Here early in the spring I went ahead and decided it was best to go ahead and turn some horses out. Let all this stuff kind of quiet down out here in turn. They ended up coming back to US after Del. Mar September October November time. And I think you know in the ninety days since they've all come back to all started kind of going the right way and we've got some horses just kind of find the right spot in particular as well and short field out here. Certainly don't hurt either. You know Guys more quick to jump on the bandwagon to get horses to Oaklawn Park and places like that and field size here is taking a little bit of a hit because of it. But I'm not going to complain about the two year olds. Where do you stand with those that any come in or or are they you know? They being held on the farms. We've got a handful of two year olds here that literally are just working a quarter of a mile. Now so there's no rush with them forces that were supposed to come in or still on the farm Whether it being Kentucky or calendar here in California you know. That's another situation altogether with ourselves and things like that but I just kind of holding off on the two year olds and and waiting for kind of a clearer picture here before we start sending him in Mary. Nice Michael McCarthy. Mwr racing for everybody on twitter. Michael what a what? A terrific terrific performance and thrilling race as C. C. Backs up the beholder. An adds another grade one. I Michael Stay. Safe and healthy you the staff and the family and We'll we'll roll with the punches. Definitely you got to. Thanks for having me. And everybody stays safe. Michael McCarthy always a treat. We'll take a break right here. Ron mcwethy is going to join US. Next and Just let me just GonNa turn the the mic on and and just let me tell you how much this horse means. They him his absolute favorite and I acquittal certainly have more staked winters. It is career as a trainer. But I don't know I it's gotta be gotta ask them that question. What's it like to be probably mid career as oarsmen and know that you just it? It may might not be possible to have a horse show up at the barn. That's as good as this one and and means as much to you as as this obviously does Whitmore Third Count Fleet Rob Acquit next. They went with Steve. Vic on Sirius. Xm radio have you heard about the new handicapping and bedding at that is sweeping the nation? It's called I bit and it puts the power of AI. Assistant handicapping seamless wagering in live. Hd video in the palm of your hand thousands of bettors have already made. I bet fairway to handicapped bet and watch more than three hundred of the world's top tracks isn't a time for you to join them and when you give I try today you can cash in huge welcome bonus sign up with Promo Code Sport of Kings. All one word and you will get ten dollars just for joining as well as a ten percent rebate. Up to five hundred dollars for your first thirty days with that much free cash on the line. 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Part 2:  Jay Privman,  Rick Hammerle

Thoroughbred Racing Radio Network

1:01:40 hr | 1 year ago

Part 2: Jay Privman, Rick Hammerle

"Sirius Xm sports presents. Raises with Steve. And becoming interviews this aloys who was stupid? We're back our to preview at the races Jay proven of the daily racing form joining US J. Good Morning. Power you. Excellent excellent. That as Zippy, first our with Marty McGee and Randy, Bradshaw and spinning right into the second as we head to the weekend before we do anything on the Preview side. Not that actually that's our focus today with you but Let's dive in J to Santa. Anita Derby. You were banging the honore P. Drum early on. have been very high on him since Being in the dumber was his debut last summer, spurning and then big maiden when the fall made at Santa Anita. Was just. Has, had the look of a horse was just GonNa get better with. Distance and time and Nice to see him, step up like. The looks like he had the potential to do last Saturday and get a career-best buyer. What Oh to was only his fourth start, and you'd think that going out to a mile and a quarter is going to suit them even more than a mile a day, so. he's really touted themselves just. Gorgeous owners, just really good-looking horse. Races well and thought his comeback in the San Felipe Bay was. An ideal setup. I didn't think it was GONNA take him three months. To run the second time of the year, but there's a lot of things have an expected this year, but Really like win and and looking forward to seeing what he can do over the next few months. And, you know given given the time involved Jay and not that not that any number of of horsemen that we bring up. couldn't benefit from the time, but certainly John Sheriff's with A. You know with a calendar in front of him and plotting things that you know to to get to a on arrival point. He's got to be among. The Best at at you know. That kind of a circumstance. Very much, so, but I I honestly think even if the Derby held on its original date, the source would have been right ready, then as well You know you'd have the good comeback in the sand fully bay sanity the Derby Been On. April the fourth, I'm sure he would have acquitted himself well, and then got onto the Derby on May, the second and and run while there, too, but the extra time this. Is Not going to. Jeopardize you know. What John Sheriff's does, he's he's top-class horsemen and he's. Done a great job over the years so many horses and he's showing it again here with the skill that he's got with with this source which is. One of the reasons why in the? Pre Meet story did on two year olds three at Santa Anita. Last. December. The he was the focal point of the story, just looked like he had a couple of prospects and honore P was the most prominent of them, and you know the time us just a maiden winner, but it's just nice to see that the source really progressed like like he had potential to do. They don't always work out that way this. What really did? Serve. Some thoughts about authentic effort Gary Young was with us yesterday Jay and I asked Gary to his impressions of last week's results, and and he he said not the you know not to give up yet on on authentic long-term Prospects Authentic, a a very good horse that was his first law and go. To You, know who I consider to be one. The top Derby contenders my concern. That I've expressed many times on this show before with them because I just. Don't know if he wants farther than a mile and an eighth. that's. Not In unfamiliar position with offspring into mischief, and it's something that is concerned me about this source, but you know up to a mile and eight. He's probably as good as just about anybody and you know he had A. He had a a a trip last week where he was part of a fairly significant pace, and and emerged as the best of that Of that group and he just couldn't hold off. The, best of the best three year old in the West right now so. I think he's a really good horse. It's just. Are we talking about in the context of the Kentucky Derby where we talking about in the context of. The half goal that's that's the difference between a Mile Quarter Mile, and as I think model eighties ats extremely effective. I think going a little bit farther might. Not Be advantageous to him as it would be to. Honore P or or some of the others of this crop. And any anything amongst the. The also rans. Thank you, finish. Their stakes debut thought. He ran on well. wasn't. Beating the top two, but I thought he kept task pretty well. It'd had a really good trip. In the race, but he's he continues to take steps forward and I would think he'd be. Even better with more time, he's not nominated to the triple crown. I mean obviously if they wanted to. Supplement the Derby, if he got really good over the next few months, they they could do that, but it looks like they're taking more of a much longer term approach with him and I I think you'll see him. Being among the better three year, olds by year's end, but in terms of. Know triple crowd. They're taking more of a long view with them. Well, Jay, not out of. Yep. I'm sorry, go ahead, say! No no I finish that up because then I'm gonNA. Want to go into some other stories, but I now. What is what is Blaine? Right GONNA do. I, don't know what you should go back to the graph though I mean he's just not. His his first race ever was on turf, and it was wild Iran terrific and I think he does. Gee. Maybe she'd go back to the grass and see if that hurts them up because he's just not. He hasn't shown this you're. You're the the kind of ability that he shows last year. And even though it was raised, the other day was probably. His best. Race so far of the threes run and three year old. He's just not back to the same level, and it's either. He's just hasn't improved which is. Certainly a possibility. Happened but it also might mean that he just needs something to switch it up and considering how well he ran on the grass in his first start I think. He deserves a chance to maybe. Do something like that and there's a great grass program for three year. Olds at del Mar so. I think that would be a really. Interesting way to to see if you can. Write the ship. Nice it makes sense and what what? What's interesting from you know. Just using figs as a as a measurement it. He he had this forward projection, and then he's basically run the same. You know the same fig, more or less with each start this year, and then so maybe to get that momentum. Forward improvement the that formula going back. To, the grass might be exactly you know the right. You know the right move. Also on Saturday J. before we talk about some of the the unfortunate injuries that came out this week. And the. DISSIPATED DEBUT Right I mean. He finally got to the races Very expensive to purchase from last year son of Kirwin one nightly first time out he will get a chance to make the Derby probably got time for two more races and we'll see if he can progress enough to get there, we. We put them on our Derby Watch top twenty list. because he's a, he's going to get a chance. And be as you just alluded to were a lot of uh. A lot of forces who went by the wayside with the Charlatan and Mac filled and and wealth by you we. We had four horses. Come off our list. Those three because of injury and then we took out to shoot after he ran in the. Ten Anita Derby so we had to bring. Four horses in and Salon was was one of them and Martin. You the way we do our? Top twenty first. We take our twenty and then and then this year Mardi McGee. Puts the prices on the horses and he was so impressed by Suzanne, he's got him at. His Fourth Choice as twelve to one on our list, so that's the kind of regard. that he's held in the kind of words like that could certainly. Make A Hail Mary impression building towards. The first Saturday in September. Well. He's going to have to. He's going to have to catch up in a hurry. No I mean Absolutely No. You know it's it's GonNa be a challenging, but I mean he's. He made his first start. Approximately three months in front of the Kentucky Derby which is what you know or a little less than three months in front of the Kentucky Derby, which is what justifies it, so it's it's kind of. On that template that they're gonNA make the the the to get there whether. He. He does get there as you said it's. It's a long way to come in a short amount of time and. It's not It's been attempted many times, but not pulled off often at all, so we'll. We'll see if he can do it, but he's GonNa get a chance and. This year. That's just being. Just being in the you know, still standing and enable to compete is A. is a major aspect of things 'cause. Been, a high attrition rate. Well, let's talk about the attrition rate and the specifics because the Max `field Ebb and flow has been. Taking a doubtedly a toll on on Brendon Walsh. The disappointment of last fall, and then you know the expectation that. There wouldn't be an opportunity to make the most important of the classics, then the opportunity avails itself, and you look like you're in position to capitalize only to have you know. The football ripped away by Lucy. Right. What a roller coaster! Ride right I mean to. That reprieve and have the chance because they were going to run out of time to make the first Saturday in May at least time to do it the right way. And so they backed up on them when. There was a suspension of racing at. The cancellation, really embracing a keen one for the spring meet because he was potentially gonna come back and something like the Bluegrass Lexington, and they took the long term view, which they were now afforded, and came back in the Matt. Win and he ran great in that race, and then he comes back and get certain breeze. subsequent to that prepping for the. For the BLUEGRASS, which would have been you know a month from now, so it's just really the ups and downs are are. Brutal you know Brandon Walsh. Great. Churchill made since they. Got Back up and running. The sources are firing rusted right and done everything right with this horse, and and then still something like this happens, and then you're. You're knocked out of the game, so it was pretty. Pretty brutal. And Almost as a as an afterthought or or certainly overshadowed by the Max Field News minutes later, Marty also reported on wells by you that has got bone bruising and his going to be shelved. Right, so he'll, he'll get some time and I'm sure we'll see him either at the end of the year as a as a four year old he. Got A couple of I thought pretty soft trips in his in his recent races, and he's got the antic who I thought might be compromised trying to go out to a mile and a quarter, but he. Had the potential that a little bit of pace to the race and We'll just see how that plays out. There's still we're still so far out from the Derby. There's just so many things that can happen between now and that we're still. You know nearly three months from the race so it's it's still a long run in. It's like the equivalent of the. Mid February right now for a for a major urban. Well, we Are always on the Derby Watch as you and Marty, are and have been, but we've got a classic a week from tomorrow Jay of sorts and. The you know the Belmont has. has taken a couple of drinks in the fender here as the weeks of have gone on whether it, sources that you know the baffled Prospects or now Max field that I making the decision to go to the blue grass and and bypass. Belmont, the now you know the you know. The injuries that are crowing and. We've gotten one new edition It looks like in tap it to win. Some thoughts out ahead of next Saturday. CAPITA WINS A horse who is one of the four that we brought onto the Derby Watch top twenty this week salons when obviously it was extremely impressive and thought he deserved. A chance to prove himself. Obviously, the race is going to go through kids. He's going to be a heavy favourite. Don't expect there to be a very big field. You'll have a couple of. Courses From Todd Pletcher Barn in in Farmington road and the. Improving and I think very dangerous Dr Post. Gouverneur Morris has been rerouted to the blue grass. Stakes You'll also have a representative from asthma since bar and most likely basing. look for him to be in there and then there's you know. We'll see if Sante gets back after his win at Gulfstream the other day so you would have him. You've got Max Player Coming off. Allow possibly modernist for the race as well so I think you're gonNA, end up with you know maybe eight. Just you know. A lot of tracks have tried to come online in a hurry here and. Seeing it across the board terms of field-sized. He went from four tracks open a month ago to. You know twenty years whatever now and it's your. We're already seeing the strain in terms of field sizes everywhere, and it's it's GonNa. And the other thing I mean the Belmont obviously. The. Major as classic Goofy Year it's going to be runner I and the mile and an eighth, but. There's so many options right now for. For Horses with that division You know a week after the Belmont the Ohio Derby. The week after that out, here is the loss Alameda Derby three days after the last Ito's d'oeuvres Indiana to me. you know a few days after the Indiana Derby, the bluegrass there they're going to become an hot and heavy one after the other here. But Maybe eight or so and just the law is going to be an odds on favorite. Well and we'll We'll talk to you from Belmont next week and look forward to the way they end up. Coming together and J A? Quick thoughts on on the rest of the big card last Saturday at at Santa Anita, improbable gets that mile and a quarter grade, one and Swiss. Skydiver, some interesting things mcpeek, probably rattling around in his head with her Mackenzie comes back on Sunday and then there was other Nice Nice action later in the That's part of the weekend. Yeah I thought. It was very clever. Move mcpeek to come out here and there's still so much time till raises like the Derby and the oaks and I'm surprised that. More people weren't From out of town, didn't take advantage of that. It was a small field, and it was really a smart move on his part and I I think he's. been saying. For weeks now and both before and after that race that. showed them onto the Ashland and then onto the onto the Kentucky Oaks, but that was that was a smart move on his part to. Come out here and just keep her. You know ticked over and going on 'cause door. What four horses in the race? And you know? She hadn't committed. Obviously need them smaller field but she's a solid phillies. She's rattled off several wins in a row. She gets good figures she's. She's obviously one of the top contenders for the for the Oaks Ads for improbable that you know. That was not the strongest Hollywood gold. Cup field that's ever been fielded, but it was nice to see him. Get a win like that. He's obviously than you know among the top because generation. He ended up. You know he's a great trivia question. Who is the favourite? In last year's Kentucky Derby and preakness stakes? but so he's obviously been. Highly regarded for a long time, it was just I always one. Concern of a mile and a quarter was going to be something he could. pull off and he did there against that field. I still don't know if he's could be that good against the best mile quarter, horses in the country, but that was like he was against the likes of you know code of honor or somebody like that, but I thought that was a good smart performance on his part. I know they're not going to do it with him, but I'd really like to see him. Try The grass at some point being by by cities. You really like it, but he's. He's pretty darn good on dirt, and I think that's what the the plan is GonNa. Be With him and then for Mackenzie I was. That was a means to an end it was it was a nice tuneup. You're gonNA, see a better fitter. Faster I think Mackenzie and the met mile, but he. Got a nice tuneup in the seventies. Triple Bend is first start since coming back from. Saudi Arabia and I think you'll. You'll see him at his best for the met mile on on July fourth weekend. yeah, you ran a great race in the met mile last year. He might have been best even. Finishing second. Matali was a tremendous effort and I'm I think that'll be a that'd be a fun race this this year. Again? Always exactly and of course with the Manhattan on July Fourth A. As the Belmont this this truncated and intense Belmont meet with steaks every day and big Saturdays. Lots of look forward to yet and Jay also occurs to me as you know bringing up improbable and and Mackenzie and you know the the horses from. The ghost, but ghosts of classics of. A classic trails pass How about the four year olds? Making an impact between code honors when on on Saturday in the Westchester and vote comas stunner in the Carter. Last year's group kind of distinguishing themselves. It was a good group horses and Glad to see you know glad to see code of honor. Come back like he did Really I. Think mccomb is being managed really smartly. I think he's a one turn horse. I think the seven eighths of the Carter, the or the met mile. I know they were sort of on the fence. The met mile coming out of the racing. Back in four weeks, I mean it's four weeks. I really hope he can take coming back and four weeks It's not. It's not like not like these tiny. Want to run them three times a week so I would 'cause I. I just think that would be an ideal race for him at one mile. That delmonte Park, so hopefully he's ready to. Come back on that short four week rest and and be ready for it But? Yeah, they're like you said. It's nice to see those forces. Come back like that and then. First of all just they stay in training instead of going to Stud but it's nice to see them. Then reward their connections. Who kept him in Training Bhai performing like that? And hopefully they'll stay at that level for the for the rest of the year. Jay Brisbane daily racing for the Derby. Watch and J I. Appreciate it and. Weekend weekend plans anything anything of head that we should know about. I have the weekend off so nice. Nice as soon as I hang up the, are you among The I'll. Re Reemerge on Monday? I love it. J enjoy and. We'll talk to you Belmont Eve. Good. To jape ribbon everybody, D. R., F. Ribbon on your twitter machine and. Look forward to the big Saturday, which of course also includes plenty of other three year old action. Andy was talking about it yesterday. On the Fox America's Day at the races broadcast about how it's really a three year old showcase with the Acorn, and the woody, and so forth so and the turf action as well. Let's take a break coming up toward the bottom of the hour. We'll get hammer in ear and Then we got visits yet with Nick. Tomorrow and Brandon Lee at Lone Star, and we can't get ron gear king today, so I'll just give you some. You know give a little lift. Gave you the little bit of the field preview of. Of the Woodbine steaks and Mr Mrs Trump better? Making the. I don't know if they're making the trip, but I doubt that, but the The trump better presents it. Mike Mike is really done a lot of seth. A Lotta, horses up and successfully to Woodbine. And of course, actually had the had the three year old champion the sovereign winner for Mrs Weber. that we talked about quite a bit last year. I do WanNa get Mike, Welch in here as well at least for a cursory glance. They're giving away as we suggested with when Mike visited. The opportunity to make A force out on the rainbow sex, and so. That came to pass. Not long after. We talked to Mike Maybe we'll get a couple of thoughts. Know early on the. Early on the the sequence. I know he's got a handicap. For the paper already, but we'll see if Mike has got some further thoughts. We'll reach out to him all right so basically. Ninety minutes in ninety two com- weekend preview at the races back after this. Apparatuses with Steve. On Sirius XM radio. Relation two year olds and Release consider leadership leading all natural pace reduce greatly of e h, the list of trainers who trust leader shield is. Shouldn't you journey? To learn more contact Joseph Allante. Zero? Business of horses in the world's only accredited equine business program, the University of Louisville Equine Business Program the University of little has a legacy of excellence for more than twenty five years of equine business, education classes are taught by industry experts in state of the art facilities located in the heartland of America. Equine Industry the University of Louisville Equine Business Program. When it comes to horses, we mean business for more information visit. Business DOT LOUISVILLE DOT EDU slash. Here in Pennsylvania we have the best breeding program in the country. Thanks in part to a racehorse. Development Trust Fund. It's a trust. It's not tax dollars and by law. Her Fund is completely protected. Difficult days for all of us. What life in America gets back to normal and it will? Our breeding program will be here stronger and better than ever to learn more about how protecting the tries to go to bread dot COM to watch a short video. To. Have you seen this commercial? University of Arizona Race Track Industry. Program can prepare you for an exciting career in racing. Turn your passion into feature. Horse racing. That for to yeah. Todd pletcher to and lots of other major players in every area of the industry. Like what twelve for starters we have, graduates who are executives of Churchill downs naira Darlie. America Gulfstream Keeneland you name it. They're also regulators racing officials. bloodstock agents track announcers Mike Class Job placement rate of almost ninety percents. Wow, Ooh, what other college program has results like? What career track are you on University of? Racetrack Industry Program Enroll, today and get on track for success. Nearly ninety percent of our students are employed in the racing industry immediately upon graduation for scholarship opportunities and more check out our website, you aid and not be dot org. Breaking down the biggest stories in the world horse racing. This is at the races with Steve Beck on Sirius Xm radio. Out It wasn't as strong as it wasn't my head. So came. About. came. SNOB decided not to play along so a group. Very close. Third. My superiority complex go. Me and my inferiority. I'm winning. But I'm having a very good time. Con Mi. Can Come. The Good Tunga us to. Tucker. Whisper worship. Coming back bottom of the hour Mike. Welsh will join us before we wrap today probably at about eleven forty eastern time and Brandon Lee as well from lone. Star and Nick Tamra right now. Rick Camberley Good Morning. Look at you lorient. Park. Little Hollow Their Hammer. Myself and I, we know. Yeah. Funny. I never. We ever talk about when we're coming on by Tim. OATMEAL. And our elephant phone rang. Going to the case. Shoveling the local. then. That's fine. Are, you guys. Good good the week. I mean the weeks I. It's a blur. We. There was a certain pace to the quiet period and. You know with everything that's happened so quickly and with so many of the ovals coming back online the way they have it it. Just you know keeping up getting back into. The swing of of having so many more. cards to evaluate and and frankly wreck cherry. Pick I mean it's A. An opportunity to really pick and choose, and you know price shop like this ten percent Canterbury pick five Indiana next week is going to have their eleven point nine nine percent takeout pick five as well and you. You know you can. Kind of find the best fields and the best sequences. There's a lot to absorb right now. What. The Great. It wasn't that long ago when we had you know we had fun and we have. Roger Sounds on Monday Wednesday. Tuesday Wednesday and then we had a little camping. Gulfstream the rest of the time and that was it and. You're right as we have like one track and then two and three. Run and we're almost back to normal. When you know I gotta say the whole of things. As we return in every track retracted. Come back. Has the purchase aren't what they used to build on what they were would have been. had we not had the had the corona the stoppage. Sure you know around the world type things, but there's been no complaints north complain about running for less money whether it's the owners or trainers or the rider Sir anybody could everyone just kind of put their head down and thankful that we're running. And it's it's any turn around, and you look at baseball and you see these guys. They can't come for the deal they. WanNa get paid. You know what happened to glance the love of the game you know America release supports drive down. You'd think that they would just cut it. They'll hey pay us a million bucks. We want to get on the field. Let's play you know how play ball type of thing now gotta show the greed, and it's really it really kind of make you sick when you look at that, and here we are you know running for reduce money, and but you know what I haven't heard one. And were out there. And you know what worker baton for watching owners are starting to get a check or two, then as it trickles down, so you know I heard some laugh report the other day. I said you know what it's still baseball in a what we get the game going. Swell. well-made wreck and You know we've said all along that. The game. And the participants and here's you know here's the first post. You Know Post. Pause sale at the same time. I mean the numbers are going to be. The numbers are going to be a soft You know it's not as not as soft as the march sale, but you know the numbers are. Awful. Ten fifteen percent probably when they wrap up today I it. You know everybody's adjusted and vendors. Worked with with horsemen and everybody's understanding and I. I have made the point repeatedly that the industry is distinguished itself dealing with this. It the against that is a good feeling of one's off and everyone to jet like you said and It's Kinda. You know it's Kinda neat to see and. Like, you said that Jerry has been involved in a lot more handicapping. Stuff is then normal and take advice for people. Basically. If you don't want WanNa, be don't like a day takes day off which I have done occasionally, but it's crazy the things are you know everyone kind of getting back into the fray and I mentioned a couple of things last week and mention that movie seven days to Vegas and I got the constant good response. Everyone that's. It so they haven't seen that. You GotTa Watch. That degrade little gambling movie, and then I mentioned last week I switched over to naira bet. So I wanted to tell the story about that so. That they're you know what do that? Change it up a little bit. And, then of course Saturday. I'm. I'm put my picks in for I'm trying to make my best, and that's not coming back well. Events had a bad day on Saturday and I didn't know that was everybody knew it. I decided with a great so anyway I was very frustrated as a lot of other people were but And then Gel on one of our joke. Maryland, crab, cake job, don't McKay. He called me and I guess he doesn't work for them. And Hook me off, and then I got very frustrated and then I got. I got a letter from them. Not Me, but I'm sure they send it out to everybody. And, so you know what? I Took a deep breath. Everybody has a bad day and. You know went back and they're back so I'm enjoying naira bats I got my I got my daughter on our last week and a couple of other. gets everybody day but. They're back online and we're moving on. It. It's funny because I. IT seemed like it was. It was hit or miss and I got my particularly with the Empire six force out I got. I had like three different a main ticket and two backups, and they went through, and it was weird because it it, it said. It asked for when it went to confirm wouldn't confirm. It. I couldn't get it to. You. Know where you get the confirmation You know or the the box and. What I did was I went to the my vets. Section my wagers section, and they were in the my, even though it wouldn't. Show me that it was confirmed it was. They were in the my wager section so I I. I wonder if some people thought that the bets weren't going in but but maybe they were I know. Dick Powell said Dick had some that and he couldn't get them through and you know. He ended up rectifying it, but it. It was a weird. You know. It was one of those things if you kept trying and I, know. Andy was saying on twitter. You know he said. Keep keep trying to get the bets in and then I think by the sixth race. you must have been an hour and a half and It must have at that point they they got it straightened up and they said that it had been fact so. Yeah Yeah. Thank You as everyone knows when you're at your wait till the last minute. You're looking for this and that you try to get. You Or not. Just, like you I thought I had a couple things there and then pop back up, 'cause I watched the balance. The balance never went down. So the cycle Jesus. By their back up, so we next everybody we give everybody a second chance, though, but anyway I kind of enjoyed. It looks like it is a little. Rough getting around there, but I I like it so. You're talking to Mardi this morning. And and also randy, what a great! Guy Ready Bradshaw is! He is the best you could just. If you don't know him, you sell buy talking somewhat a class guy. He has used to work for a tremendous way. He gets work for. For many years and and When I first came to California, then he said I'm out going Ocala, and done so well down there early, really high respected horse in and just all the positive. Positive no matter once going down, Grandi always father, so it's good to hear his voice this morning, but Yeah Kentucky down got your. Announcement the last couple of days ready to roll. Got Six days to five days last year. I think they tried for seven days selling percents. and kind of kind of crazy with obviously when they. Were Planning on the on virtual writing the Kentucky Derby. Camber so royal down was parked working. I sent Ted. Detect the other dad have all five track running on the same day. We'll just try that out, but a lot of scheduling going on there, but Savvy. down. And go six days, and so they go the seven and nine ten. Twelve thirteen and sixteenth. Of September so. Very similar to last year, GonNa give away a lot of money. actually added to stakes, which is a pretty wild so every categories coverage short long short, long and longer. Than One of them's music city they wear. Their so to national do something there, so we're going to give away guitar here. We give away support. Get late card. They picked him doing. I love it. Yeah right so We'll do that and music city. Thanks to the schedules about the. and you know. A lot of money, and also the casino just opened on Wednesday, so they're back in business. But The live crowd last year of course was my first year there and last year the live crowd I think surprised everybody including you know everyone there and it be kind of A. It's a hunt me. give bring you know a lot of people. Bring your chairs. I and come in, and they have a little temporary. To serve the MOANERS. But it was just basically overwhelmed I mean everybody showed up. Everybody has had a horse in the order. Caves trainer came, everybody came, which was wonderful, sunny built a more permanent structure at San. You know I got a big chance to hold five hundred people down by the finish line. That's GONNA. That's GonNa be more permanent, not just. Put it up for the fact that so you know taking care of the onsite the onsite site customers and You got a quite a announcer duo. This year with Michael Ronin Larry Calmest So you know what they're always trying to to do. Other things up to sleep with I, told your contests at different type of contents for the meat, going on and know loan. Decide stuff there. It's I'd say it's one track where talking about complaining. Nobody complains to get back down to run. You know the they're treated well and run for so much money it's. You know it's Kinda cool. And then you know just an aside. No, so I looked evidence I go Let's see on there. Be Wednesday the sixteen. September. Let me. Check out the all NASCAR schedule and lo and behold the nineteenth for stall is running Bristol the night race at Bristol. Credibility which is like de race. Clan I called them the other day. And I said the. Gal Jerry answers and I said. Are you guys going run? She says we just got word we're going. It's a beautiful. Thing. It's a bristol so They're gonNA be running it with some people. You're getting the tickets through me. Because at least if something does happen, you'll go back, but just they're not going to have one hundred fifty thousand there, but they are going to have fan and so very excited about being able to go to Bristol which you're right right down the road and So just the fact that they're gonNA have fans, or they're expecting to have fans. mid-september leads me to believe that they'll be some. Announce Bene- Kentucky soon that you know some fans Navy soon to the races there, which is which is encouraging, so you know still gotta be wary that stuff still out and about out there and can't get too complacent. But you know baby steps? We're getting a little bit back into it. I know that and. You know that that. Everyone's doing the right thing. You know taking it slow, and and it's. You know it's good for that, but Got We talked to Jay about the rate of last week here. with the Nice, it's a nice where come out of it. Some of the fields were rather small and Fortunately, that's continued on to some of the. Seventy other race here as as it continues on and. Some news from yesterday about the field during the drop meeting. I duNNo. I, listened to some of that, there is a there's a new. Liberal Path. Did you do that. Yeah it'll be it may. It may take until October for to be fully. Take effect they have to. They have to file some paperwork and and so forth, but all of those All of those changes their restrictions essentially to using the stack. Is going to happen And apparently the meeting went seven hours yesterday. I actually had it on my phone I was. Putting around the house before I had the for had to leave, and that was right when I had to I was listening to that to go on and on and you know. I know it's California I know it's You know. Everyone has the right to speak by that after each. Agenda Item, they allow you know comment on that item, and you know on a phone and calls do say hi. My name is Jimmy. Member concerned citizen and you WanNa talk for I. Think they give you three minutes and the same fifty people they go on after each item and you know few, they're they're. They're Hayes of the game and jets. It just goes on and on and on. and. It's like didn't hear the one carpet. They were talking about this. Writing Rob, gale and I, I have front of me what it is and and They're not gonna read all of it. You can see. It ended the agenda if you go to the. Be Website under the packages to the meeting. Tells you what what they were arguing and they had you know two members of the Jockey's guild. Jerry mix was on talking, and and then you get guys like Mike. and. Mike Smith I mean he is one of the top. Five and ten riders of all time on their. You know not pleading, but say hanging you white guys. Can we just wait us out and and we're working together with the rest of the country, so every everyone can have the same rule. Not Going I, go here. I travel here I don't know I can't be landing at one St and counting. How can I get a couple of times here? You know in making. Reasonable requests like why. Why do we have to do this now? Why can't we just? Try and get something together and Eric Riders. So simply really good points and you know. I don't right. You don't rise. People that vote on this stuff, though right I mean let the people that are out there. You know lease, say, listen to them. They're willing to meet halfway and and I. You know chat back and our enough. They pass it so you know. I hope I hope they can get. Some meet somewhere in the middle. I'm reading this and and I. Don't know I. Don't think they're having to speaking for them. I think they would around of course it over to try to get them better. National thing going that's all. But That's not how it is out here. Everything's agenda-driven. Anyway. Is. Just as an aside I, mean this. This is one of those easy. This should it should be and. I think is recognized widely as. An easy fix. For us as a as an industry I mean is something. that. People have this visual impression and they attack the game and. By. Addressing this. Starting with the you know the the much more The much gentler Safety crop and so forth. It's an easy. It's an easy remedy to to take away a bludgeon from the critics. In the honestly the interesting thing about this hammer. This topic even before there was the acute. You know animal. Activists terrorist types even before it became acute with them. There was plenty of of. Criticism of of the way stick use. Was You know on addressed essentially and You. Know when you have. People love like like you know Trevor, Denman and J. D you know that that have been screaming for whip reform for years. Well. There's era. Nobody that I, of course we need to do something about the biggest. Actually. The the the the use of it I'm just was more. It was more about uniformity than anything else, right? We're GONNA pass the rule. Pass. Fatty role and you know this going back to other situations where we talk about change. It's so much easier to make the change when you don't have to make a change then when you're right to make. Duck Marijuana. Talked about we talked about this ten years ago. It's just calmly got together and made the change when nobody was pushing for guess what in and we'd be moving right along now. When you were kind of forced to all either on us, and so whatever we is going to be right, it just goes that way with anything. you know change change under your dear rules not with somebody else's making it. Do it, but anyway I just. Every day goes by and I. Don't hear the word uniformity and enrolls whether it's claiming roles or medication, rules or something and we're not working with people and trying to get a few things. where it is the same and everything I mean it's it. It really is ridiculous with. That Got More stuff isn't. It isn't uniform. You know one other foot thing I just wanted to touch on. was. Have you noticed against? There's more tracks out about much more. You know. I just see more this late. Odds Change You know at the end of race I as I pay more attention to I'm playing more contests and you know making more wages than I normally do. With. They're getting close to the gate and you get worth the. Odds are higher than should be. It's usually, and it's too good to be true. Guess what? Crosses the wire you find out that usually I mean I've seen you know. H Go to four and five to six to five and I'm talking everywhere. New York droughts down Lonestar anytime. You sit in a way as they wait till the Andy. Oh, my gosh resources, sixty one and you bet and he comes back seven dollars. it's crazy and I've noticed more and more as the tractor loading into the gate. They kick the odds away. They don't see it. Halfway through the race until they put him up and and there's that gap there, but I don't know I. I know it's a it's A. It's a long time complaints, but i. just I just see things I'm seeing different things now and very annoying. Well there. This is this is A. Topic that. You know that rankles ongoing basis, and and you know there are. There are elements that explain a lot of the you know the. Mechanics of this I, mean brought it up of a dozen. Well, but there is there well. There is a there is a pending solution or at least an alternative that I I think people are GonNa Start to get excited about, and we brought it up with Dick, Powell yesterday and We're going to have more You know as as Monmouth as the season starts at Monmouth, but know the fixed odds wagering. That that's gonNA come to Monmouth. is going to be. You know very closely monitored and I think appreciate it I mean there's so many positives associated with it, and it's not you know it's now weeks away. Really I mean Were were very close to this and we're going to. We're going to discuss it and and introduce help it. Introduce it to people. That is fantastic. When I heard about that I mean that's. Going to be watched I know I I'm not quite sure how they're gonNA do it or when they're going to open the Subedi and say this. Gerard, but I know I'm surely going to be looking at it because you know it's nicer. Thanks to think that if you better. Get close to it anyway, so this'll be thick with. Them it's A. It's a movement in the right direction for sure, and it's the true I heard yesterday. At Belmont the people outside carrying signs be fun to Stewart's, but that's true. I, you're. You're breaking up on me a little bit hammer. I didn't hear you clearly. I. Can you hear me now? Yeah. I says true that there was some people out Belmont yesterday carrying signs defunding Stewart's. Bump. Up On. Somebody actually messed. Up At. Sanity so sanity here end and next week on Twenty I. Pretty quick, so at the more days racing, and then we go to low south for I think reading lake in a four day week. And down to del Mar and I think racing here in southern California is due per change of venue. And I think people be looking forward to it and not sure not sure exactly what they're gonNA do down there. They're they're gonNA. Open up with no fans. I believe they're in a situation where they're going to try and get some owners in their during the day for the races, which is good and. You know it all depends on. We do everything by county which a lot of places due to all going to be depending on, how can you go? County feels about it and. Built the restaurants, it'll be open for business, but you know just like there will be fame. by you know, be looking for a change of venue. That's for sure. Yeah that's just fresh keeps keeps things. APPS thinks fresh. Hammer. Yacht you gotta play or two for the weekend before we go. I looked I looked over and there's not a whole lot that jumps out at you. you know? They got a couple of steaks on Saturday? Couple of five field, Carla gains has to in on the couch. Brad Racist Act like a logger. Priced One Tiger Dad We'll take a shot desert law course come come close in in the being crosby tiger dead has a little more recent. See not much action there Sunday Sunday the possibly perfect stakes Marriage going long long on the turf and richer man. Dallas has a dog taking their. Looks like he might be able to control the race. Of course, it's Pratt on and cats. All we got from there and You know like I said I'm Kinda. Waiting out here, get the day and then and then everything changes from there. We start going to Togan del Mar.. Anyway, had it. It's all good here There's something going. My phone has been ringing off here. Both something's going on out there Santa Anita. We'll find out what's going on there and you know which everyone a great weekend and I think. The weather started turned good for everybody, so enjoy the races and be glad we have my Jimmy other day. What a normal! People do during the day when they can't go to work. I mean we're lucky. We get to play for races all day and and move on, but Gosh I I've other friends that just stay done nothing. They just sit at home and it's good for you. I'm playing. I enjoy. It. It's really been. I, don't know it. It It was an easy adjustment to make I. Think for most of us as Players and fans. Participate? Let. Seller for short is it's Pretty darn good glad to be involved. Hammer I appreciate it and On one part of next week, that won't be the you know the will be missing. Is You and Jimmy come in to sit down with me at Belmont, but we'll, we'll do it by phone and stat. Phone and sat and we've got a lot of stuff going on this summer, so we'll you know. Hopefully we can go can meet up somewhere down allies. But. It's always a pleasure, and it's just great talking with you Steve and. Carry on. I appreciate it. Rick Camera everybody a they go on your twitter machine away. We go wrapping up our two and we'll come back and this actually probably break of the morning. It's been that kind of a Friday weekend. Preview continues, and we'll preview the action at Belmont next with Nick. Tammaro get the Knicks read from the past week. As well and Brandon Lee from Lonestar I want him to provide the details of how you will be able to go to grand prairie and play in their big contest coming up in a couple of weeks they got they got Ah Qualifier. On Sunday as part of the. Texas Champions Day and then Mike Go. Will close it out and Michael Give us at least the thumbnail looking at this. Rainbow six sequence that goes on Saturday. Starting with seven races seven through twelve, and they've got what two million change, so you gotta figure. This thing thing will go to ten million at least and Yeah, probably about four four and a half times. A maiden special on the turf, going a Mile Group twelve then there's a twelve five claimer. With just eight horses. Interesting including a two to one favorite, then twelve five. Claimer, a mile on the grass with a full field twelve. Then there's a ten horse field ten thousand nine winners a to go in short on the dirt. A fifty thousand dollar star Handicap. A mile for three year olds and up. That's got a group of nine where math wizard comes back. But. Not GonNa miss a chance to bring up whence. The you bet main line racing. Will Schwartz, and partner and. When it's going to be a big price in their diamond. oops in there, too for Patrick, being cone so kind of a nice group and there's eight nine of them. And then a eight thousand conditional. claimer a mile. for foreign ups. There's twelve in there is it might be? This might be a pretty approachable. Actually just glancing at it. First Time I've looked at it so mike. Welsh will help you with a rainbow six approach on a force out day back after this hour three Nick Tamra next. You. With Steve? On Sirius XM radio. Relation to your in California and cookie. Release considerable leadership leading natural pace, greatly reduce or eliminate E. H.. The list of trainers who trust leader shielded. Shouldn't you journey t? To learn more contact Joseph Allante. Zero. Food business of horses in the world's only accredited equine business program, the University of Louisville Equine Business Program, the University of Louisville has a legacy of excellence for more than twenty five years of equine business. Education classes are taught by industry experts in state of the art facilities located in the heartland of America's equine. Industry the University of Louisville Equine Business program when it comes to horses, we mean business for more information visit business. Dot Louisville Dot Edu. Slash equine. Here in Pennsylvania. We have the best breeding program in the country. Thanks in part to our Resource Development Trust Fund. It's a trust it's not tax dollars, and by law are. Fund is completely protected. These are difficult days for all of us. What life in America gets back to normal and it will our P, a breeding program will be here stronger and better than ever to learn more about how we're protecting the trust. Go to Grad Dot. com to watch a short video. To. Have, you seen this commercial? What? University of Arizona, Race Track Industry Program can prepare you for an exciting for racing. Turn your passion into paycheck. Isn't that the Horse Racing School of thought went to Yeah Todd Pletcher to and lots of other major players in every area of the industry really. Like what well for starters, graduates who are executives Churchill downs naira. Darlie America Gulfstream Keeneland. You name it. They're also regulators racing officials. BLOODSTOCK agents track announcers. Mike Class had a job placement rate of almost ninety percents. Wow, what other college program has results like? What career track are you on? The University of Arizona Track Industry Program. Enroll today and get on track for success. Yearly Ninety percent of our students are employed in the racing industry immediately upon graduation for scholarship opportunities and more check out our website at UA Dash. RT IP DOT Org.

Derby Jay Brisbane Belmont Kentucky Derby Steve Beck California America Sirius XM radio Mike Mike Nick Tamra Marty McGee Churchill downs twitter Santa Anita Anita Derby Brandon Lee Jerry mix Jimmy Mackenzie University of Arizona
36-Single moments in time can change your life with Clint Pulver

Sprinkled with Hope

26:47 min | 1 year ago

36-Single moments in time can change your life with Clint Pulver

"Welcome to sprinkle with hope with your host. Shane and today we have an amazing guest. He has such great insight on life and things that he's gone through a great story that he's gonna share his name. Is clint pover- and he seriously you'd need to listen to this. He has some fantastic insight. Absolutely i i love this episode. I mean we have some great guests right and we've had some great guests on our show and clint really brings a different element to this that we haven't had and so he brings some really good insight about kind of how people can be such a great influence on your life. You do not want to miss that part of this episode. So please tune in. I do wanna give a shout out to his book. It's called. I love it here. How great leaders create organizations. That people want to never leave. And isn't that true. We we should have a place that we wanna work at that. We never want to leave because of those great leaders So look forward to this book coming out in april. But without further ado clint pover- we'll go to this dime. Hey guys welcome to spring with hope and we have an amazing guest. Clint pulver has us today. Thank you so much for joining us. Clint a happy to be here. Thanks for letting me on the show. So when i was introduced to clinton i actually saw his video that he posts about Being in elementary school and being a drummer and shares that story and i shared it and my sister in law said. Hey i know that guy and i said well when we started our podcast we thought we gotta have die on our podcast rate. Such a great so clint. Just tell us a little bit about yourself. What for our listeners. Who might not know who you are. Yeah I traveled the world's the professional speaker and drummer organizations and educational groups We speak a lot to schools and it depends on on the audience what the message revolves around. But it's always a message of hope. And how do we see opportunities not the problems and show that message of of the teacher that changed my life with a pair of drumsticks who created a moments that allowed me to live a better story and so it's really been fun career and i i've enjoyed a lot. That's awesome. So what interested you in getting into speaking in those things. Some people don't want to do that. What gets you in front of that crowd. Yeah yeah people are like. Oh my gosh you speak. you're reliving. Most people would rather die not easily the most coveted position in the world. But i i love. And i never actually wanted to grow up being speaker. That was not like the The end all be all. I wanted to be a pilot. I wanted to fly. I got my pilot's license when it was a senior in high school. And i was well on my way and Two years after that. I went to to renew my driver's license and i didn't pass the s and i was diagnosed with an eye disease called care toconas and i was going blind and so that derailed. The long-term hope being pilot. And i ended up going to school. And kinda chase the that that world kind of chase the money i was like i don't know what to do with my life but i gotta have benefits and stability in a 401k. And you know something stable. And so i went into the medical field. I was an orthopedic consultant. I did that for four years post college and was just miserable. And i remember when i spoke for the very first time when the senior in high school Like i asked me to go speak at leadership conference. I absolutely loved it and it was the first time i felt like i was doing something that i loved. I second i was able to do something bigger than myself. erred. I felt like i. I made money some paid me to talk. I can remind so. It's kind of those three p. Is i've never really had anything in my life. That allowed me As far as a job. That's allowed to do those three things. Except for when i was speaking and i remember out of just a pain and stress at not being fulfilled. I ended up quitting my job and two weeks later i jumped into the world of professional speaking and thinking a speaking that was almost four and a half to almost five years ago and have been doing it fulltime ever since that awesome. I i really loved your story to. And maybe you could kind of share. You know the story about this the drum sticks that you were given from your teacher. I think maybe there's some value you know in you sharing that particular story because i think that could be a lesson for for all of us for sure. Yeah yeah. I was a kid in school. That always had a hard time sitting still has always in trouble. I would constantly sit and just tap and tap tap. I'm holding still for me. Has never been super easy. And obviously if you're sitting in a room with someone in their clicking they're panther tap in their foot that gets annoying really fast got bullied. I got teased. I got nicknames. People call me. The twitter called the tapper and into the principal's office. Nothing it was still the principles like just sit on your hands kid and that worked for about five seconds and it just. It was continually a problem until one day. There was a teacher and his name was mr johnson and he told me to stay after class and he pulled up a little chair in a big. Jeremy sat me down and he said listen to. You know why we're talking. You know i told you to stay after class. And i said it's it's because i tap 'cause i move any said listen i've watched you and i know you're the problem you're the problem. You're the kid everybody talks about. You get teased mike. Class you tap in everybody else's class you're the kid begat sent to the principal's office two weeks ago because you just can't sit still east It's crazy as i've sat back just observed you'll start writing with your right hand and then literally same time you'll move your left hand and then you can switch and you'll start moving right hand and you can. You're right with your left hand. Is i think you're ambidextrous and i might know him. Presbyterian one meeting listen he's at. Can you tap your head and rub your belly at the same time. And i was like okay and i could do it and he goes. Can you switch that. He's can you rub your head in tap your belly. Can you tap your head. Wrap your belly back and floor. I do it without thinking about it. He leaned back and he smiled and he looked at me and he said. I don't think you're a problem. I just think you're a drummer. I've always been someone that has believed that a single moment in time can change a person's life absolutely and if you look at our live your life in what makes it a great story. It's the moments that's what we remember. We don't remember days. We remember moments those experiences that were so significant that truly shape our lives. They help us to become who we are who we hope to be. And in that moment. Mr johnson The all teacher. He leaned back in his desk and he opened up the top drawer and he reached inside and he pulled out my very first pair of drumsticks and he put them in my hands and he said clinton. I don't know what's going to happen. I want you to just promise me you'll keep them in your hands and that was a moment. That was a moment in time. That changed everything for me over twenty two years. I've had the opportunity to tour and record all over the world playing the drums and kept those drumsticks literally in my hands. Been on. america's got talent played. Incredible people started the first drumline in my high school. I started the first drumline at utah valley university. I coached the drumline for the jazz. Won an emmy award for for for for creation and music and directing and i. It never would have happened without mr johnson and i don't say all those things to go awhile good for you clinton or what was that. Like the reason. I say those things is because the value in the importance of good people seem good things in others choosing to see the opportunities not problems back to the people in this world. Those that constantly see a problem. You could look at something beautiful pain i lack. I don't like how how it sets the design. I like they always will see a problem. And then there's the people that always see opportunities. Always see the good in something. And i think we need more of that in our world today and really. It's it's a message of being mr johnson. Yeah see what's right even solution not the problem. That is such a powerful story. I love that. When i saw that video. I just it really touched me. I had to share it To hear it again. There's just as much power i think. Thanks goes out to mr johnson. But i also think thanks goes out to you for allowing your mind to accept that opportunity to learn from him. It wasn't just teaching you but it was also you saying you know what maybe he's right and now look what's happened. I just want to read this quote from your website. I saw this this morning. This is awesome. You say it's not about being the best in the world it's being about as it is being the best for the world. That is the i love that can you expound a little bit on that what what what do you mean. Behind that yeah. I think it's the difference between success in significance. Sometimes success we deem that as being the best in the world having the best car having the best house and in the best job having The best position nor we strive for that right and there's nothing particularly wrong with that. It's good to be successful. I think there's value there but in reality significance is about being the best for other people is different between passion and purpose and i have found the greatest amount of film in my life when i strive to be the best for other people in. It's easy to get self centered or to be In that world where you're comparing yourself to others or you want to be accepted we won't be valued everybody wants to be seen heard and understood but i think when we realized that there's more value in helping other people to be seen helping other people to be heard it can show that other people are understood there's just a sense of fulfillment in lasting joy that comes from that and i think that's what we remember right. I love in the movie. Osama you seen the movie sandlot right picture it behind me. I saw that. And i was like this is awesome film. You got these punk kids. Playing baseball hit this ball over the fence. Signed by babe ruth and they got the beast on the other side. This big old dog. It's gonna rip their face off in there in this pickle and if you remember in the in the movie. The babe appears to benny in a dream actually appears to and there's a. There's a pretty famous tagline. You guys know the departing words that the babe ruth says to benny euros get remember that of what is that. Yeah heroes get some about remembered her areas there is good yeah euros get remembered but legends. Never die every time. I hear that in the watch. That movie i i was thinking to myself. Heroes get remembered. But mr johnson's never in approve it right. If i would ask you guys tell me the last three. Nfl mvp were no. I honestly can't remember our. Could you tell me who the last two academy award winners were for best actor. No we're the s. You miss america's no idea we have no idea but tell me. You'll shout out the name of the teacher that made a difference in your life. Yeah honestly it was mr black for me he was. He was a hard teacher. But i think he taught me a lot of valuable lessons and You know i'll never forget him. And you know to go along with that right. I you know my second grade teacher miss ias. She was amazing. Because i was similar to you. I can sit still and whatever and i was kind of the class clown or whatever and but i think she kind of took me under her wing and helped me so i love that. You're bringing this conversation to light. And i i think we do have value when we are in service of others and that that to me is so huge. Because that's more than us right like when we serve others we we get a sense of purpose and passion for ourselves for the world for others and i absolutely think there's value in serving others. Yeah and that's what gets remembered hino Told you say the list that the most famous popular prestigious elegant beautiful wealthy people in the world. And we usually don't know who those people are because because really who they are hasn't gotten to the part about us. Yeah everybody's asking the question when you're in a relationship or a working relationship or even a friendship let me know when it gets to the part about me. Never never forget it friend but never let a friend forget you in a relationship where you do feel seen heard and understood and when people do that in a significant way by creating moments it lasts you remember mr black. You remember those teachers. Those spreads those those people that they communicated your potential. End your worth so well to the point that you thought within yourself and created moments and that's what we remember heroes heroes get remembered. Mr jensen's never die. I love it. I love it. So what's what's the most exciting thing happening in clint's life right now right now. We are down in kobe. Live speaking events happening. Were doing a ton of virtual speaking events. So that's really exciting. What we're doing a lot of and then we got a new book is coming out and spent the last four years of my life writing this. I will never do it again. Almost now is in a labor of love and quite a process yet. The book is all based off of four years of research that i conducted as the undercover millennial i would go in undercover into kind of like undercover boss without the backup. I would act as an employee who was looking for a job. And i would ask the employees like to work here and they would tell me everything that the bad what was working. What wasn't working and we decided to title the book. I love it here. How great leaders create organizations. That people never wanna leave. It's all revolved around win. Great leaders were getting it right. And when the employees knew the great leaders were getting it right and so it's a book written through their perspective of how leaders became significant in their lives not just successful net increase profitability engagement loyalty and influence in the workplace. That we just need more of and some really excited to get out into the world in april almost there a month around the corner. Yeah that's great. That's a lot of work. I can't imagine all the effort that was put into that even writing a book is challenging in itself but to do all that research and data collection and everything. That's that's awesome best wishes for that launch and. I'm sure he'll be pleased when it's done. Yes so we go ahead jason. I just i had another question. I wanted to ask you that. I heard i heard this the other day on another podcast. And i thought it was amazing but it. The question went like this. What is the question you wish more people would ask you. Nancy heard it. And i was like that's awesome. I gotta ask somebody so sorry clint. You're the here. I think there's there's a few offer me i'm a. I'm a new dad. So and we've got another little baby on the way it's arrived so a man anytime we get to talk about my kids and and being a dad and the magic of that and creating moments for your little ones little man that that's fun question. That's always something that that's exciting to talk about. Yeah so tell us about being you know. I'm a father. I got three boys and you know i got a couple of teenagers and you got kids of his own so we love talking about our families as well and so how is family an important part of your life man. It's everything i kind of. I don't know. I'll i've always wanted to be a dad. I've always wanted to be kind of a family guy yet. Career aspirations and and and you know that i wanted to achieve in a you in life but ultimately all kind of revolves around being able to provide support a family on that might seem cliche trite. But it's true At so having that realization of of every day. I get to go to war for them. Right everyday. own provide for them every day. I'm building and doing something. Yeah i'm trying to be the best for the world but also kind to be the best for my family no matter what successor. Whatever you chief in this life if if your family falls apart or a family is not the center man. i don't know i. There needs to be a refocus of priorities in my opinion. And i've just i don't know being a dad and supporting them in being there for them and watching them grow and develop seeing magic in there is and reliving some my childhood experiences in watching them experience. Those things for the time man. There's very few things in this world. That is a good that so soon. You'll have sleepless nights yet again yet right. Oh my gosh. We're going to do this again. That's awesome we have some questions for you that we call the that doubled down dose. Nice okay go ahead j. So we me and sure to ask these questions to all of our listeners. And you know our our podcast is called sprinkle with hope and so we like to to to ask the question. What does it mean to you. What what does that mean to clint. And you know how do we get more of it or and just a little bit about what hope is two things come to mind. Always have something to look forward to. I think that is what is something that creates hope. And then second. I focus on a man by the name of james stockdale and it's called the stockdale paradox. And he was a prisoner of war and was stuck in a small little three by nine foot. Sell for over. Seven years was tortured interrogated. Any was finally freed They came through rescued everybody in the pow camp. Anybody asked him. how did you do it. How did you do something. That was so difficult and so hard and he simply said. I never lost hope in the end of the story and i think in the end of you know right now. We're in covert right. We're in the middle of a numbers arising everyday. We're in the middle of crazy election year and it's easy it is easy to see. The problems are still opportunities. Despite that and i think in the end of all of this we're going to be okay and if we're not okay then it's not the end and so again it's having hope and faith and perspective on the end of the story. Have something to look forward to have something to focus on that. This this is what gives me hope. In times of a partnership it's division is the end of the story. It's it's the good things it's the possibilities of what could be. And when i focus on that i don't lose faith and matt that's what helps to create hope in times where there isn't a lot or it's hard to see awesome very cool so the second part of the double down dose is How would you define love a. I would define love like christmas morning. There's a certain sense of. I know that sounds really wear. But there's a a magic in a sense of Significance that comes from right opening presents on christmas morning right. The magic in the possibility of what's going on what's happening in. I think as fallen in love and i think love is a continual thing that you have to keep working on to to create and sustain man the beginning pieces of when you're falling in love you'll either have been able to compare it to is is christmas morning and i know that sounds really weird but to me. That's what it feels like. That's what it's like. It's that magical. A possibility of really great things is it. Yeah i love that you know it kind of reminded me of something the other day i saw this. You know these people were asked kids you know what their definition of love was and it was interesting because i think it was maybe a six or a seven year old kid had said their definition of love was christmas morning but watching everybody else open their presents. Not not about them. True love of of watching the joy on everybody else's face like kids teach us so much and they're amazing. So i love that you brought that because it kind of reminded me of that that Little study that they had done totally. Yeah i i. it's a powerful word. I think it's also a commitment right like love is a commitment it in. It's not always easy require sacrifice at said like passion Action is something you suffer for your willing to suffer for. And i think that love comes from that for sure and as our word often was. That's awesome. We have really enjoyed this discussion with you. Some fantastic insight. Clint for for our listeners And those who wanna get in touch with you how do you how. How do you want to share that with them. How can they get in contact with you. Yeah i think he contacted me to instagram. Instagram just Over and then my website. Clint pulver dot com. And before we let you go just one last question that i have for you. Is there any question that we haven't asked you yet that you would like us to. I don't think so man you guys ordinary conard it. It's so cool you guys are doing and we just need more podcasts. And more things like this in the world that promote goodness. Yeah we we love to do it and and are happy to have you on and so grateful for your time for for coming and joining us. I know that life gets busy and things going on especially with you preparing for a new little one. So congratulations there and and best of luck with your with your book. Look forward to reading it in april so definitely keep us posted on that. You gotta deal thanks to you clint. This is sprinkled with hope. If this episode please share with a friend if you like our podcast please give a review or rating.

clint pover mr johnson clint Clint pulver clinton twenty two years mr black four years two weeks babe ruth benny euros Clint utah valley university Mr johnson Shane five seconds 401k Mr jensen emmy award america
Part 1: Scott Carson, Pete Fornatale, Ray Arsenault

Thoroughbred Racing Radio Network

1:10:35 hr | 1 year ago

Part 1: Scott Carson, Pete Fornatale, Ray Arsenault

"Sirius Xm ports presents. With Steve Big. Horse. Racing handicapping interviews. This is. Really stupid. A very good Wednesday. Race Vance Sirius to nineteen exam to one sports on night sixty four. If you're listening to Siriusxm online at our website as well Steve, dot com and a great start, it looks like to. The third week of Saratoga it is. It's Whitney Week. I've already this morning heard from. Mammalian Neil. Neil Kleinberg. Neil coming up some of the other partners as cousin Marcus, coming and. Steve Carlin. All A. Partners in in our horses and they're even though they can't. Necessarily come to the the racetrack they wanna be in town and yeah, there's there's. Plenty of that going on. It doesn't necessarily make A. Make the. Scene around the the track. BRISTLE and spark but. does seem around town. In fact, I was talking to Gary Gary said. That he sensed into the weekend. That The town a little little little energy. Had built To a degree and certainly these next two weekends travers next Saturday as well as the Ballerina the test. And the card they're going to draw today the racing office, the fact they sent out. The missives two horsemen enter enter early. And they'll. Try to put together a top-flight card for Saturday and the stakes action. We'll go a long way. When it comes to the Whitney and the personal ensign. The Allen Jerkins. And I gosh I I I'd have to poke around. Unavailable he knows the answer to this. Top of their head. When was the last time? The bishop slash Jerkins wasn't run. On the travelers card. that. That's A. That's a question worth researching and. Couple of others, the bowling, Green The first of the. The. To Turf Standards Along with the Sword Dancer. And also the Nice. Philly and Mayor Sprint the caress. So. Five stakes on Saturday. and of course, del Mar already drawn. So. The next the next big. Focus. Of the weekend in terms of. The stakes that are in your daily. It's a day at the SPA Day. That's era Toga today the wonderful Philly, and then a mayor. that. Then it was probably part of yes. Part of the early of of some of the Chad Brown's early success. and. Maintain form in a brilliantly, and she was particularly good in fact pretty sure. She broke her. Her maiden here. If in fact, I in fact I put up my selections early, this morning I looked at racist four through ten. And I wanted to put a picture of day at the SPA and I think the one I put was was her breaking her maiden at Saratoga? As it happens. Day The spot today the John Morressy tomorrow the Coronation Cup on Friday. The Saratoga steak schedule. And looking ahead a quiet Sunday with just the bird. Stone. The long distance. Mile and three quarter. A throwback? To the days of the Saratoga Cup and some of those kinds of races right So we're looking forward to it. Got I. Think a fun. Actually got a very eclectic morning. And a lot of. A LOT OF HORSE PLAYER Success Stories today. And It will include a visit in the third hour was Scotty mckeever Scotty pick six. Scotty mckeever who won the? Contest. That mammoth and in fact, I just heard from Bryant SCARPA who. Have to get to the office this morning to email me the full results I wanted to highlight everybody that. Came Away with prizes. We're also GonNa talk to Ray Arsenault. NHCD champ. Ray Arsenault Ray with A. C qualifier over the weekend. We'll check in with ray and Scott. Carson is going to join. US and Scott Chris l'armee. They. Have launched. This sport kings website and a lot of it is contest driven. And Scott's going to Outline. The project me yet another example of. The time and money and commitment there's so many different. Enterprising. concepts. That You know people have. Forged with. Over the last several years and always. Always happy to. Showcase though so we'll hear from Scott of course, it's Wednesday. So sydell join us. Sire Watch pedigree focused brought to you by hill, Dale. GonNa hit on on violence who is just Getting one after another, and of course, you know getting a another great one for volatile or getting another great one winner. But volatile win. Adding up with no paroles, what he Stevens Win vol violence just. Having a fabulous year. and. An interesting case study in. The EBB and flow of. Stallions success said Fernando and Brian Arrigoni we haven't had a chance to talk to Brian in. And they. Actually probably four weeks because we talked to Palmdale last week. And so Brian will be in do some Canterbury. Touchstone. Work look at the last couple of weeks and. He'll give you the lay of the pick five land today. At Canterbury last night they. They had A. All Quarterhorse Card. I'll save I'll save some of those results. For Our conversation with Brian Saffa course seth marrow have Sethi in a little bit early soon as he gets off the air actually will talk to him beginning of of our three and I gotta get the Pete I have not talked to Pete in. Actually, since the meat start, it's over two weeks. So we'RE GONNA TRY TO SLIP Pete in between Scott Carson and Ray Arsenault as well. So a busy morning and let me the While we I've got the window, and before we look at yesterday. Here's here's the rundown and congratulations to you know to all particularly the top five finishers. and. Scottie Pippen over. The cash. Prize. Of. The guaranteed winner's share eleven thousand, four, seventy, five. He took. A BBC. Prize in because the the top five winners, each got to got to pick to off the prize board and then the next six, hundred, twenty, six, they each got to pick one thing off the prize board and there were twenty eight seats. There were five ABC's, and then there were six. Cash prizes. So. In, addition to the prize money that was available. So Scotty took the prize money. Eleven thousand, four, seventy five, and then he picked the A. B. C. B. C., which is worth equivalent, ten thousand and then he took. The, nine, thousand, seven, hundred, and fifty. Cash off the board as well. So twenty thousand dollars plus the ten thousand dollar value the CVC very nice Gwynne Houston. Took a guarantee got the guaranteed second place money sixty, three, hundred, seventy, five dollars. Took A. BBC. And then the top NHCD prize which was NHCD plus four thousand. So. Really Nice basically. Basically twenty thousand dollar. Score for Gwen David Rink. Thirty Eight, hundred and twenty-five third place prize money. He took a BBC. And seventy, nine, hundred and fifty in cash. Atta Macon was fourth he got twenty five fifty fourth place money. And a BCC. And he took the sixty six hundred off the board. In the cash, prizes. So, Pretty Nice eighteen thousand and change our friend and Viti partner Paul Weezer. He took. Fifth Place Money which was twelve hundred and seventy-five than he picked the seat plus he took the second H C and cash. Ticket which was the NHCD plus three thousand. And I and I think that's Paul's first. At HCC this year and of course, he's got as many almost as anybody he's got I think this is probably. His fifteenth maybe sixty. but he'll he'll get a second at the pill punch a second ticket yet between now and January. So. Ten, thousand plus three thousand. There's another fourteen thousand and then the rest the got one prize pick each Robert Panel. took the fifty, five, hundred than Ryan Olson forty, five, hundred, zero Rosen took the NHCD seat and two thousand. trolls. engebretsen. took the four thousand dollar prize. Off The board the undertaker Stephen Thompson. He's been hot. He took four thousand himself. and then a bunch of HCC NHCD seats to the next finishers Mark Strafe. Tenure Taylor Adam Aitken Kyle King. I guess you have to have alliterative names you have to have. To, have the same. Initials start both your names. It's pretty funny tenure Taylor. Kyle? King. Sean Nolan took an HCC. Craig Kauffman. Dave McCarty. Dave. Currey. Frank Photos Bor. There's another double double F can cash with double K Kevin Chrysler. What get out of here with this. This is made up this list. and Bill Wren Dino. Pretty Funny and then some other prizes. Dave Wolf took four thousand Andrew Valid took four thousand. Nicholas thought took four thousand so congratulations to everybody twenty-six big winners two, hundred and twenty eight participants. And we'll talk about Scotty and how he approached it. And it's a great story because he was. He was not killing it by any means. And was trickling trickling. was. Basically. Hemorrhaging money. And hit the last race for five hundred and change. The cold exact a straight. To wit. So one and widely respected as one of the top contest players around. Scotty mckeever later in the show. Scott Carson after the break colonial got started and yesterday as. People were waiting for the six thirty start word came out that. that really frustrated players and with good reason colonial abandoning the aggressive takeout. Posture that they. Know inaugurated the season with last year particularly on their pick five. and. So that that did not sit well. The racing itself? Was Actually delayed at one point with A. Very. Typical summer storm down there But Big Day big start. Trevor McCarthy wins the first two races. then. Wins two more as the day went on for his voice. She had three wins. Including two for Shuki. Suga one for Joe Allen. North Dakota. And one for the fences vigilantes way. Todd pletcher and clips that will try to win today. Actually with we've mentioned you mentioned yesterday with Jill. FARMINGTON, road. valance. To the TURF yesterday and One? As Well Ferris Alan that a short price. Always happy for Ferris when he wins. So good start to the colonial season and today. Nine race. And going to assume they started. At Five thirty. Got Some other results that will weave into the morning. Let's take a break. We'll come back Scott Carson kicks it off, Ray Arsenault, and a bit Pete and more. Applications with Steve. On Sirius Sirius Xm radio. Business of horses and the world's accredited equine business program, the University of Louisville Equine Business Program the University of Louisville has a legacy of excellence for more than twenty five years of equine business. Education classes are taught by industry experts in state of the art facilities located in the heartland of America's Equine Industry The University of Louisville Equine Program. When it comes to horses, we mean business for more information visit business dot Lu of old dot edu slash equal Saratoga. Its history, it's tradition. It's world class racing. It's jump racing. Yes. Steeplechase racing has played a role in Saratoga is rich history and tradition since eighteen, sixty, four and today it's a part of what makes Saratoga. So Special Watch every Wednesday of the meat and two Special Thursdays featuring the great one APS mythic on July twenty third and the grade. One New York Turf Writers Cup on August Twentieth, Savor. The thrill of horses flying over fences steeplechase racing. It's a Saratoga tradition. Seen this commercial. You Are University of Arizona Race Track Industry Program can prepare you for an exciting career in racing, turn your passion into paycheck. Horse racing sports fought. Todd pletcher to and lots of other major players in every area of the industry. Like what? Well, for starters, we have graduates who are executives, Churchill downs, naira, Dali, America, Gulfstream, keeneland you name it also regulators racing officials, bloodstock agents, track announcers, Mike. Class. Had A job placement rate of almost ninety percents. Wow. What other college program has results like? What? Are Are. You on the University of Arizona Race Track Industry Program Enroll today get on track for success yearly ninety percent of our students are employed in the racing industry immediately upon graduation for scholarship opportunities and more check out our website you aid at Sharkey, Ip dot org bringing dome look biggest stories in the world of for saying this is not the races with Steve Bank on Sirius, Xm? Radio. Is. We're back in the races. Twenty minutes in Sagem Cook Camel Fat getting going the rabbit hole and of course getting. Bounden. And running racing websites and media projects. That's a bit of a black hole and Scott Carson, of course for years and years with public handicapper, which was a tremendous service to the sport for a long time a great place to exchange ideas and handicap and Scott. Course himself a widely respected on the contest circuit and Now, part of the team with Chris, l'armee and the sport of kings show that they're doing, and also now the sport at Kings website that. Scott has pioneered Good Morning Scott Carson. In morning. Steve. Thanks for having me on. Not. At all, not at all, it's been it's been too long. Actually I think about it and. There's there's really so many nice things that you know that you've done and. Now have you know kind of morphed into something new and? Seems like public handicapper was A. was part of the the Internet's infancy. So speak you know and. You ve kind of evolved with with the new concepts. a lot of people cut their teeth on public handicapper and I've been getting a lot of emails and support people who contributed to the. The funded campaign that we had. From people who said, they joined in like two, thousand and five. As. Fledgling horse players and like that's how they learn how handicap. Was By reading other people's comments and you know just doing the fee races every month every week. And usually, there was free PP's available for at least one of the reasons and then a lot of people just learned how to find three PP's for almost every race. So that's basically sorta the history it it it turns out that even though we only had one contests that time and four aces per week. There were a lot of people who that's great how they learn how to play the horses. and. What sport kings the idea of cases that? Well, there's GonNa be a lot more opportunity than that, and it's GonNa be more than four aces more like four contests. And hopefully more than that even. Very nice and free PP's I should know. For every race for every contest every race. you know. So the people don't have to go hunting down anywhere. Well that's great and that you know the That whole concept of enhanced. Availability of information in a in fact, we had Pat we with Pat Cummings on on Friday and one of the one of the mantras of. Of the work that he's doing with the racing ideas. As more, that's one of the obstacles to becoming a horse player is the expense of data and then the other obstacle is just the learning her. And when you combine those two, it's hard for people to find a path. From. Hey I'm kinda interested in this to hey i. love this and I love the handicapping puzzle. Where if if they're provided with free PNP's? And a fun environment in order to learn. They're much more likely to become. Regular engage towards players and that doesn't mean they all. We'll want them all to like. Betting one, hundred bucks a day on the weekend. But we want everybody to learn at whatever level. They're thinking about what whatever level they're are gonNA become whether they end up being a two dollar better. Maybe, they don't bet but they were just a fan. and. Then watch they watch the consecutively on TV. And they have you know they have Kentucky Derby parties and that kind of thing. Well and where do you stand on the site? How close are you with we officially opened up the. Url. Monday I mean not officially but we just opened it up. And a few people snuck on there. And and then yesterday we. Announced to the public handicapper mailing list and anybody who's contributed to our funding campaign like okay, go. It's open go ahead, go for it, but there's still a lot of things that still need to be done I mean even right before you called. I was just putting the final touches on the footer, which has you know like about sport of kings and. Know, who to contact for health and and that kind of thing. So right now, there's nothing that the bottom of the website so it's You know it's a little raw, but we wanted to open it up because we do have an any qualifier that starting on Saturday and I don't WanNa be like. Announcing Friday. Hey can call starting tomorrow. I want people to have a chance to get to know the site a little bit and snoop around and enter that contest. What what is the specific you are? It's sport of Kings Dot. Net. Okay. Dot Com somebody's sitting on that. We'll probably want a lot of money. Well there's been there's been obviously it's a, it's a popularized, the term and. Richmond the Ori had has got a group that does media consulting and so forth which I think sport at King's media you know. It's I'm actually surprised you got sport at King's not net that the that it was that readily. Readily available and okay. So now I've gone to it and how how is it going to work give everybody thumbnail on on what the concept is and and how they're gonNA engage. Okay well, there's there's a couple different types of contests, but first off office talk about the NEC qualifier since you I sure have tons of people who want to win the national championship with. So we have these NEC qualifier round, one round tunes and public handicap who was also a qualifier, but a six month contests, and you just had to grind it out over a hundred races and it's hard to say good for that long. So it's really It's a tough. Tough ast for people. So what we're doing with this site is we're having monthly's round one qualifiers and this year. Since we just starting August, we'll have three. Qualifiers where anybody can answer. And? and you don't even have to see tour player to answer and compete but if you want to be eligible to. Go to the final round. Then you need to be any tour player and The top one, hundred of those. Move and move onto the finals which is. Breeders Cup weekend. It'll be all the Breeders Cup races so So anybody who's like competing in the BBC, for example. They'll already be handicapping. So won't be like any. Extra work for them. Those have to make affects so and the great thing about this sort of having these. Round one qualifiers said if you really think it up in August. You can start again in September. If you have a good October you're in. Then of course, you do have to have a good weekend. On. Readers Cup but everybody expects to do that. Yeah exactly. Well, and I'll also mention when you talk about being a member of the tour and. Enrolling You've got between now and Labor Day with the weekly the beat big contest, and once you once you qualify for our final. You're eligible to join the tour for four, ninety, nine instead of fifty dollars. There's your, there's your entree. necessarily. Didn't realize it was that good of a deal exactly and last year last year by the time we were done there were any close to three hundred people joined the tour and we I know we had fifteen the first week and we'll probably average in that range fifteen to the twenty week and you're saving yourself forty five dollars. So the those that are cost-conscious we've talked to any number of qualifiers for NHCD that are playing the eighteen dollar. Plans and that that is a you know. An austere way to approach this now. So you know that that concept and trying to you know trying to save as much as you can. GETTING TO VEGAS we're all for it and trying to help provided. We've got You know we're GonNa send one person and. You've got the you've got another avenue as well and of course, everybody's going to be playing. Breeders. You definitely have a you know you. You've got a better deal. People who aren't sure about if they want to become members. That's a great avenue. That's a great pass. Our contest is is really You have yet to be remembered before you start the August contest. So by. You know by Saturday. Before the proposed time in the first race, you haven't become mature member but. It's only fifty bucks and you're gonNA have a ton of free chances to qualify including through your beat the contest. So, and there's still some pre tournaments that. Are going to be running horse. Players Dot Com. So. So I tell people like just. K- The tour you the tour. It's fifty bucks. You're GonNa have all these opportunities. And You you'll be part of the game so. How what? What's the format or or you're gonNA. You'RE GONNA have different different formats as as the site evolves. Well. Different formats always possibility like we'll be flexible and I don't know where we'll be a year from now. Right now, it's standard wind place with a twenty to one odds cap on win ten to one on place. And the way the monthly round one compass will work. They'll be like public handicapper where they'll be fortified races weekend. Usually the good steaks and you'll have to. Be You can compete you have to compete in a certain amount of those reasons. I think will allow people to miss one week because a monthly contest and and come up so. So, we'll allow people miss normally. Usually. The people who win these things play every single race so so they'll be, let's say about twenty races per month for the round one contests. Standard Wind place just like if you were on horse journeys. Kings, and then the finals will be Breeders Cup weekend all fourteen races and same format just the to win place. But over thirteen races and The top to win Trips Vegas. Hopefully we get to go to Vegas and. And then the top ten percent. Will Get tour points, which is pretty key for a lot of people If you finish twentieth, YOU'RE GONNA get two points at least. and. That's a that's a nice top station, right. So even if you finish third, you don't go to Vegas, but you get a lot of tour point. So so that's an incentive as well. Excellent. This is this is terrific I'm excited for you and everybody that You know everybody that has contributed to this and that you should mention that because and acknowledge everybody because you did do some some crowd funding to help support the project. Yeah. Also one of the things I'm working on today is getting the thank you page up. I have all the names I just have to make them. Look good. But I also WANNA to make sure that I don't forget to tell you that aside from the NFC qualifier, we're going to have a lot of other interesting contests and the first one is just a race of the day contest. It's it's one race today it's based on formulator. The formulator up past performances. So they they already offered us as a race in the day. So it's really easy you can. Enter contests and there's other will be weekly prizes the top ten finishers. And and then they'll be the top ten. Finishers will also proceed to the finals, which will be like in December this year. And I'm not sure what prices we're GONNA HAVE TO WE'RE GONNA make it good. We're GONNA, you know incentivize people and the the the the great thing about this is that you'll be able to. Handicap and if you're a new horse player, you'll be able to sort of learn handicap. It's one race day if your day off is Monday or Tuesday Great, if it's not you know. You you still only have one race to to try and it's just gives people the opportunity it's like we're we don't want like. Thousands of people to play the race day on. Tuesday but we want anybody who's interested in. Doing it to have the opportunity. To Compete, and maybe they'll even win a prize. Nice. Nice well, it have. A Another noble gesture and Should also fold in what you are doing weekly with the with the show. Well. The. That's really of taken on a life of its own. We've had some like amazing guests on our show and including you. So thank you and and usually whoever's on the show usually gives out some good stuff I know you gave out a couple of winters you stood stood firm on some favorites which you know we're always trying to be the favorites but I, always appreciate when somebody says, no, you know just. Picnic horse and move on which you did. So it it seems like a lot of people like really good handicappers that I know listen on a regular basis they tell me they do. So we're GONNA still offer the pod. And we'll promote it on SORTA kings website. But originally when we did the public handicapper Potter was actually the sport of Kings the the public handicapper racist. And I think we're probably going to keep the. Focus on just really good betting opportunities like say. Whitney Windy Day we WANNA do like the all stakes pick five. Even, if all those raisins aren't part of sport of Kings, we we still want want it to be like a high end. High End of. Handicapping discussion. With big potential returns and even though we might, we may get beginners on their. Listening through sort of kings. Of? Can't hurt to have like good info right from the GECKO. So that's why we're GONNA, we're GONNA have a lower. Nice and the the formulator concept I used to do that as well. On Derby trail we would have a race of the day contest people Really you know it's The same motivation that a get an opportunity with the consistency of of looking at the races and comparing notes and having the discussion and seeing what other people's thoughts are. It's a tremendous way to. To just. Engage and Invite. People. To, improve their. Their understanding of of the races and when you when you use something like formulator, there's just countless elements that. Come into play in the handicapping. In a puzzle essentially and and you you you got access to, you know the power of formulator. To see you know so many different you know whether you break it out, you break out a traitor stats, subsets of of stats and. That was always when I and I participated at public handicapper for a number years Scott, and enjoyed it immensely and. The leaders, the people that would you know kind of bubbled to the surface? And be consistently strong they. They would take time I mean they really contributed to. with analysis with with their view of things and I I mean it was number of years ago but I absolutely remembered taking into consideration all a lot of what? what some people were. Coming up with. So this this'll be this'll be a new and different but have you know have the same old school feel that that you create an and the environment in the mentioned the mailing list? How many people over the years had you know had a logging at at Public Anti Gabar? Well. Let me tell you see. Every move every time somebody wins the NFC. Were some big tournament. I don't do it every time but I sometimes. I think about it like, Hey, did they ever play public handicappers? And I have a record of everybody who ever played and They're always on there. And they may have. A couple of weeks and said they had this isn't for me or they may have cut their teeth on it but yeah, I think it was thirty eight thousand people have Interactive have registered historically on public handicapper may end. The mailing list is still like eleven thousand. I'll although I, don't know I. Don't know how many of those are really kinda dead emails that people just are not responding to I have to clean up that list a little bit but. it's a lot of people and it is. Great it is. It's a testimony to how you know how. Engaging was and what it, what it provided for. In terms of promotion of the game, and now a new opportunity with sport of Kings Dot Net Scott Carson and Chris l'armee and everybody that has contributed to this looking forward to go and live and opportunity to play and qualify toward a Breeders Cup, championship, and two. HCC Scott will happy to make sure to keep the driving people your way for you know the opportunity. To. Make the final and win one of the two seats I. Appreciate the visit and and appreciate how much you've contributed. Essentially making people better players and enjoy the game more. Man. Thanks thanks a lot for you. First of all, having you on the show. Which is tremendous. But also doing what you do, which is you know I was listening to Rick Hammersley talk about how he realized. The show is so popular when he talked about a horse I think it was golden something and stole the. Horsemen when the worst one he got all these calls and he was like Oh, my God people listening to this thing. So you're doing a tremendous service as well Steve and It's a it's an honor to be on the show and I one of the big benefits of winning it. The National Championship we're doing really well on it is being on your show. That's why we all. Nice. Scott. Thanks so much and We'll We'll talk soon and we'll. Look forward to I'll play I I. Don't think I'm eligible but for a seat but I I certainly enjoy it so much. Thank you and We'll often. Scars everybody and Follow Scott on on twitter and sport kings dot net pete for to towel. We did find Pete and he's standing by and, of course, talked about Pete. The other day with Kim we're for the drive thru. Barbecue at the barn this year coming up on. The. Fourteenth. Pete Good Morning. Good morning to you my friend, it's been too long, but it's great to be back on the race for their well. I wanted to catch up because you know come we're two week Yeah I guess we are two weeks a week and a half in and we didn't talk. Yet about the meat and how you're adjusting and. Everybody, you know adjusting and dealing with it in their own way. It's been bizarre. I'll certainly a meat unlike any other overwhelming fences just happy to happy to be here in Saratoga with racing going on. Happy. You mentioned Kim, happy to be working with her on putting together a lot of fun different little events. We had a quick call day viewing Cardi over at Walton wittman brewery, and we're doing a really fun thing at Oklahoma on Saturday morning that folks. Might be interested in. We have a somebody who's very tight with the thoroughbred retirement foundation has agreed to lend us their backyard on Fifth Avenue on Saturday morning from seven thirty to nine thirty a donation gets you in were making. We got Basil's making Bloody Marys we're talking horses a small blonde child may follow you around trying to sell you a fifty rap associated with one. Race is. Absolute. Blast at a folk want WanNa go You can make a donation. She's giving me a hug now that job you can make a donation over it T. R. F INC dot org slash players, and we'll send you details ought event it's GonNa be fun. So we're trying to I. Guess the real answer is we're trying to make the best in whatever we can and getting a chance to interact with with people and recreate. Just ahead, fake for the camaraderie that were also used to having over at the plant and the summer days, it's not easy, but I will make a of it. Right Yeah and I it's. I keep saying that Yeah. The town itself. Is, trying, to adjust and. You know whether it's people that are going to be here all summer or coming up to their house for or condo whatever it might be for or even just for weekends even for day trips that they just they wanna be at Saratoga and you do sense that we've got a little bit of a of a better vibe here in a a a weekend after after you know the first four day which those first four days never are to. You know vigorous anyway. Very good point I feel like in some past years look I've enjoyed that weekend but they haven't had it hasn't had the buzz any no we're sort of figuring out how this and how to get together with our friend in say fun friendly ways, and as we get more of a traditional Saratoga features I, think it's found to feel a bit more like, Saratoga but it's such a I'm. Just, trying not to hold this meet up for obvious reasons to the same standard as we have the past I again, just happy be up here. Happy to be out of the city. Happy to still be in when you're in Saratoga you're still regardless of whether, you can go to the races or not. You're in a place where horse racing matters and you're going to be able to strike up. A lot of racing. Shirt. A lot of old smoked t shirts around and other good racing really stop and have an opportunity to connect with people over over who you like him the double whether you're online at at five points or or. Sitting and having lunch somewhere. So it's still for me. There's nowhere I'd rather be and obviously is gonNA live up to all the expectations of an average Saratoga. Am I going to be able to relate to people who are dealing with the pression over there seven weeks, Christmas morning, feeling getting interrupted of course, I have a lot of empathy for those people but you know I'll say this I think that horse racing is generally speaking and certainly when it comes to New York I feel good saying this is trying to approach things in the smart right wave and the extremely limited spectators in the form of owners. Feels right to look no further than Major League baseball for an example of what happens if you just kinda throw caution to the wind in these situations, I think too much to lose. With with horse racing and I I I'm okay with delays be handled as far as I. Know well, well, well said What about what? About the the action on the oval any? Any early feel here I verse couple of weeks. I've been doing okay. I haven't been betting much. It's been very a couple of surgical strikes. Sunday was a good day very limited action but I liked I I I like some like around Christ. So that turned it into an okay gay and I'm doing more analysis than I've ever done before working for working for an age w doing some some little videos for each race, and then of course, loads of content over it in the money podcast dot com. So this is the first time I'd say it's been like. I don't know a dozen years, fifteen years like actually properly handicapped every race. I'm actually kind of loving it. You know it's one of those things where the more you're doing the deep dive on a regular basis. Kind of the easier it becomes the more in tune real. So I'm definitely getting ready to to hopefully continue to up the participation as the beat goes along. So it's been. It's been a lot of fun as far as that goes. And I agree to that you kind of waiting into it was. Almost for me anyway, it ended up being kind of a necessity and part of that. Of course, was the fact that the Haskell was right on top of of opening weekend as well and you know we we broadcast opening day at the track and then high tailed it down to you know down to Jersey So I knew that first weekend was going to be a little helter skelter and now starting to get into a you know into a nice beat actually on a daily basis and frankly there's been so much good. Racing Pete. Early in the week Ev, you know elsewhere. and. You know the openings to keep track of and and publicize and touch base with with all the various entities handling. You know, the the the other venues there's been a lot going on I do get the sense though now that with Whitney weekend you know which historically has always been and a lot of cases the the week that people would would start to come up to Saratoga than going back to the old, you know four four week style Saratoga feels like. August th the they called it the August place to be for a reason. That I think it's still very you know Andy brings this up all the time and he certainly reminds everybody that the four weeks of August is when this thing When it really lives and breathes. Pick. That's exactly right and I remember even from last year we were talking about the first he can be quiet really the first two weekend. Obviously, we don't have all the juice of the sales this year. With the traditional trips coming back It's going to matter and I'm also. Hoping and I think this was something that I want to give credit because I thought it was a good observation. I got this one from camera. The idea that horses getting run back from keen when. That find help. In some of the participation in the in the stakes racist as well. So I think we're on the upswing I'm I'm feeling good about it. Obviously you're you're you don't it's not going to do well, if you compare it to your typical Saratoga but that's not the world we're living for the world we're living in for me. This has been a Salvin and A. Bomb and something I've also just I just love being so busy and having so much racing to focus on even if it cannot exact, you know what we're what we're used to up here I I don't think it's I think there's much more positive about what's happening than than negative and you know I tend to try to focus on on that stuff. Is Hard. Enough. Without. Without looking for for the negative things in in a year that's obviously put us all through the ringer. I really enjoyed to have avid Saratoga to watch him. I think. He made a good point also the racing throughout the week here it's been cool to have. Busy Wednesday like last week with those Lone Star Park stakes and this. Monday with an interesting car that Lonestar have some del Mar to focus on their there are there are plenty of things for the Austin among to so look at amidst all the chaos and So part of were inevitable part of a worldwide. Well and Look forward to I'm sure we'll see if not Not around the track in the next little wild than you know certainly for the barbecue for the drive-by Barbecue on the eleventh week two weeks from yesterday and Saratoga winery. Talked about it. Yesterday, those listening might of heard Kim this morning or or on the replay or yesterday live. So Pete. Go continued. Good Luck, and we'll touch base as as things continue and in the money players podcast than the parade of a terrific information from Pete and Jonathan and everybody that's contributing and we'll see you soon. Anytime my friend. I. Really appreciate the chance to come on and talk to you in the listeners and hopefully we can We can do it again soon for from what properly visit but the thanks for working tobacco not at all to tell everybody looms boldly. Your twitter machine will stay right here because Ray Arsenault is going to join us and ray guaranteed a return. To Vegas nothing better when we get to an c then having the returning champions, all striving to be the one that becomes the first two time winner Rag Lord it. Good Morning Steve Hope. Everything's good. Eater you're right up everything. Okay. It's he. Oh. Everything's good i. stay today with what's going on most definitely it's a different way of life but. We've. Kinda set ourselves up in a routine and Every day every week we do the same like Monday Wednesday Friday I place in. GAUL and Tuesdays. Nice. Relaxing Gay and Thursday and look at the races and then the weekend I get into I'm a del Mar Guy. So I really like play in Belmar. So Friday Saturday Sunday. And throwing a little bit of Saratoga. So yeah, it's Thank God. We have the races to be able to do this during these times. No doubt how long did you stay in Florida? When did you? When did you come back? North. Now, we we stayed right to the end We actually came back on. The Sundays April twenty fifth or six and. We actually got the last light that Air Canada was running out of Fort Lauderdale wow and we we. We were we were wondering if we were GONNA get bumped or watt because being the last fight we thought. They were going to sell out, but it worked out the plane was three-quarters fall and They had this social distancing, and now we got back and we quarantine for two weeks and And then we were able to. Go about our business. Unbelievable well. You went about Your Business of of qualifying again and Talk about this past weekend you and Joe Rosen ran one two and both earned seats. I don't know. Joe Myself But actually I I do I do partner up with good friend of mine And because of the fact that we cannot. Get Ten contests From Canada, we've got the Noah travel. So been playing with Steve. Thompson you know Steve won the grade one gamble and. I've been working with We've been working together every day we talk and go over the races. And it's been great for me. Since style is able to be part of a grave wearing gamble and this past week. We played the pick your prize. So we had to do most of the race of all the racists from on Mount. So. I thought we're doing the MONMOUTH races We always looked at Saratoga law are going to the NFC contests which I've been trying last month's stuff. It's the only way we can get there now is trying online I run into the one on horse players, which was for people that had got had have have the CIA and and there is no to appoints but I thought, hey, you know that's how I've made last year when I was in Saint Martin, I got lucky and I qualified on that one so. I put in my My money for that, and then I saw or stern he's running one. So I'll play on horse turney and So what I did is I put the horse. Journeys was picking Pray and horse players was alive contest. I also tried to spy showdown, which is coming up in a couple of weeks, which is great cash game on her sturdy. So I had all three and I put all the same picks in I use the picking pray and and. I just let them go and We concentrated on pick your prize. And we. We hit a few. Here and there to keep US support but. We weren't really It out so then. As all got a little hairy when Saratoga Ninth Race came up and I had The ten horse the turbo. I believe believes name. Iran and Michael Maker And even I had talked about this race earlier i. was leading towards the seven quite your horse and you'd like the nine channel eleven and we're all the sevens going to be too low price. So I'm not wonder to take favoritism no, no I looked and I said well vire and Michael Maker GonNa give you fifteen, twenty, two one is you gotta plan and then we thought our thought or spent SORTA achieved. So so I put him on all the tickets and Watch the race and. He was just last all the way around him. Oh well, we'll try again tomorrow and all of a sudden he came shooting in between and he actually went quite easy. So I said, well, that's GonNa get me up there. So I I checked and I was going to be. Probably, in the top I and and then the next race mom, those was the. Just a I don't know six furlong. I can't even remember type racer was. Landed on the by Corsair he was a bomb I knew he'd be a price and we actually talked about him in the morning and we. We did something that we'd. Normally do it Steve. Kerr thought just five or. A good chance to run the second. So we will them in the exact here's per second, and if you watch the race, I actually pusa watching the race after about. Two furlongs, the horse checks in. I just I said he's I'm on I stopped watching and then I'm sitting here and all of a sudden I look up at the via just as they're hitting the wire and I said. I can't be the by that just rent second. So I wait for the replay sure enough. He came back because the army and he ran second. Doctor We got back about twenty, six hundred, which put us into fourth place on the pick your prize. So it was a nice spot to be. We had like twenty, eight hundred. With one race to go. We figured they were going to get something here. Uh. I didn't know at the time, but Steve's double qualified so If you're double qualified and there is Oni see prizes laugh Taylor giving. A four thousand dollar cash prize to all right anybody that was double qualified. So I said, well, that's neat. So we we played the race just to stay ahead, the place Person who had like twenty, four, hundred I guess and I think we'd put about three hundred to the race. We didn't hit it the Horse we had dogs twelve course she was a price I liked him. And he he just. Was So far back yeah I think he ended up ranked third which. Pretty good from where he was. But anyways. So we waited for the results and as you read this morning. We ended up finishing tenth then by then all the. Prizes cash, and EBI CBC regarding. So we ended up GonNa. Go off topic here. Sorry a bit. Anyways, we finished tenth and So now I with my place price on the NHCD contests I I said boy I'm going to be right there and then TV flips on del Mar third race, and then that race I was I was. Between two horses I kind of like the four horse and I like to seven and I thought the seven would be a better price jockeys out of well-known Jockey Victor Floors and. He had he had one of dumb are like the distance so. I played the seven and I'm watching the race and coming into the stretch and. Areas make makes his movie was. Sitting second third, the whole race on the outside and the outside has been. So live Omar this this this need. I thought well, I got a shot here. So coming down the stretch, he takes the lead. He's With the three RS favorite hadn't had and I'm the ellen jump out of my chair and I'm like come on I know. If he wins probably wouldn't both contests and yet to any seats and the SPA showdown. So but ended up he finished second I got back about eight bucks for place and then I was leading all. My contests and And then I'm just hoping to hang in I change a couple of the light decks because like bigger I had them on the pick and pray let's move them to my secondary horses. Unfortunately, they didn't run I ended up finishing third on the horse players. Funny a bunch of my buddies semi taxes sending Oh. Sorry too bad. You know Nice try and I I didn't know there I. Guess There was one horse dirty so. I sent back sand all. That's okay. I ended up getting my seat on horror sturdy so. I thought that was Kinda neat. Unbelievable. Work. And I'm just as you were talking, I was looking at the various got most of the peace or at least the charts from the weekend here and that horse of mom at that was that Oshino Roseau at twenty sixty one and you ended up getting nineteen sixty. As. The. Place Price Bill Hogan's. Log Shot on the board actually and Because the OH got the. For second over the favorite. Race Steve You would've you would've said this way he pulled out the I think they put an inquiry on the winter. And He just. Told them, I never get interfered with. But he brought him way back into come on like that was was Nice Oh. That was also a good picket at del Mar potentially co with the seven pound bug boy and. Seventeen to one. Eighteen to one and almost beat the fortify favorite. I thought he was GonNa win it down the stretch like I said. I got up and started jumping and reminding you the good days beginning see. I. Love It. So yeah. So But Yeah I'm so happy you know with us up here in Canada we're only allowed to play on. On Horse. Horse players it's a shame you know I? was booked to go to Monmouth or the pick your is. Learn ways and I in. An. Andrew. and I mean Johnny Chemo for all ready to go and and when this all came down you know. Get a refunds from the airlines and all this. I haven't booked to Keeneland also. And And even the Horse for world series they cancelled so. So. It's it's a tough one when I love to get to the states and get to all these tracks you know. I I really little list here I would've been at Keeneland Mon-. Erling ten in. July had their last year I. Went Down. Mine was possibility and this week here would have been del Mar and would have been out there for work five days for the del Mar and then next week. Than back for Saratoga so. So. It's a shame. The way it is. Now we're just everybody everybody dealing with it, and of course, the the the tracks have done a terrific job in concert with the eighty ws of moving. Things online including the Brian. We talked to Brian Stark last week ahead of the MONMOUTH contest so. Ray at it. Always great to see your name on the leaderboard and Obviously, you got quite a bit of time between now and and February to get a second seat, and you got breeders couple of four to as well It's it is it is tough I I. Would love to have seen everybody for the battle of Saratoga. That's always a popular destination, but we're just GONNA put it off till next year. Now let's hope we're hoping. To serre travel between the states and Canada or the travel gets lifted to the end of August now so Let's hope we finally started opening restaurants and. stage. Three other than Toronto which I live north of Tron of we We are they're still in sage to Toronto, but should be coming soon that. Everything should be back up and running. Well. You also gotta be I'm sure you're you're. Absolutely delighted for Jerry with the with the and cousin Paul pompa with their stake winners and they're getting ready for the traverse the. Imagined that you're following Jerry's exploits as well. So all your pals. Seeming seemingly getting some you know getting some success out of the summer. Lost Right. All right well. Nice to connect with Ray, arsenault, one of the really affable and and. Just One of the champions that has been such a a great addition to the the gallery of Champs that. Win The NHTSA. Past the top of the hour let's actually will use that opportunity to take a break and come back with a visit from said Sire Watch pedigree focused brought to you by hill and Dale back after this. ASPIRATIONS WITH STEVE On Sirius XM radio. Business of horses in the world's accredited equine business program, the University of Louisville Equine Business Program. The University of Louisville has a legacy of excellence for more than twenty five years of equine business. Education classes are taught by industry experts in state of the art facilities located in the heartland of America's equine industry, the University of Louisville Equine Business Program. When it comes to horses, we mean business for more information visit, business, Dot Louisville dot edu slash Saratoga its. History it's tradition. It's world class racing jump racing. Yes. Steeplechase racing is played a role in Saratoga is rich history and traditions since eighteen, sixty, four and today. It's a part of what makes Saratoga. So Special Watch every Wednesday of the meat and two Special Thursdays featuring the great one, a piece mythic on. July twenty third and the Grade One New York Turf Writers Cup on August Twentieth Savor the thrill of horses flying over fences steeplechase racing. It's a Saratoga tradition. You seen this commercial. Race Track Industry Program can prepare you for an exciting career in racing, turn your passion into paycheck. Horse racing school fought. Todd pletcher to and lots of other major players in every area of the industry. Like what? Well, for starters, we have graduates who are executives, Churchill downs, Naira Dali America Gulfstream Keeneland, you name it can also regulators racing officials, bloodstock agents, track announcers, Mike Class had a job placement rate of almost ninety percents. Wow. What other college program has percents like? What careers are you on the University of Arizona Racetrack Industry? program. Enroll. 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Part 1: Pete Fornatele, Chris Kotulak

Thoroughbred Racing Radio Network

1:10:04 hr | 1 year ago

Part 1: Pete Fornatele, Chris Kotulak

"Sirius Xm Ford's presents with Steve and becoming this who was stupid very good. Wednesday pick five hitters Sirius. Xm To sports on nine sixty four if you're listening to Sirius. Xm online at the website is well Steve. Vic Dot Com and hard not to start the discussion with what really was fun and challenging and rewarding for people that Even you know even if you even if you didn't hit the fonder pick five actually Chris CA- to lack will join us later in the hour. want to get an update from Chris? They're going to noon eastern today. Eleven o'clock central time. Nebraska Racing Commission expected to approve a date extension four fodder into May and. We'll get an update from Chris on that and of course next Wednesday actually the biggest race of the meet the the boss Simmons fuel pump or pumping fuel fuel and fuel pump. And I the the the big convenience store Jane The boss Woman Stake Seventy five thousand and they'll do another pick five force out and yesterday little under what a little under two million one point seven and that felt about right I mean they had a three hundred sixty thousand dollar carry over and we nick and I didn't really talk about how much was expected. But you know four and a half five times I mean that's not that's about the the right number and as a result ended up with a pool of two point four total so really was close to really was closed. Got Pretty close to two million and a lot of people had winning plays and you have to be very clever at. There was a lot of things about this. That really came to pass the way we were framing it. And they're you know there was at least two horses that went off at prices that you could leaned on heavily and I think I think certainly smaller budgets. I mean the big budgets. The big budget tickets were able to snare the two big prices the first leg and the fourth leg. But if you needed to find a single you had your options nick. Used Frankie de Oro in that second leg for sixty. I used magnanimous man in the in the middle leg for so there were places to be narrow and the races that seemed to be the ones where you have to be a little bit more adventurous that that did come to pass. And certainly the seventy three seventy seventy three dollar horse in the feature. Let's go places from a from a handicapping standpoint. Didn't you know th that horse shouldn't have been seventy one or seventy dollars thirty five to one second longest on on the board? But you know it's a nine Horsfield. And the ad low percentage connections to make decisions about and then she ran a great race Indian. Roses looked like she going to win again. Follow up from the you know the performance two weeks ago and look like the CODA would was going right on by. And let's go places digs in and absolutely would not let Indian roses by. And that was it really for Ricardo. Martinez just kept persevering. And you could see the last couple of jumps is gonNA come back and and does and ignites the payoff. It really you know. The payoff ended up being. I did a quick calculation this morning. I I think four times the Parlay I think four times the parley at fourteen thousand. And that's what you're hoping for the first leg air assault One of those to turn backs but that wasn't really the story of the race. The trouble the dazzle man ran into and I. You know I don't want to. I'm not looking to beat up on on Lark but one for fifty seven that that doesn't happen you know that's not entirely by accident and Lou arc just found himself. Would you know just no option left himself and the amazing thing about that man was the price. Dazzle man ends up. Twenty two one in the nine Horsfield and meanwhile you know air assault the horse that was they were two horses in this. That were you know turning back. The man was turning back. But you know it's pretty familiar with six six and a half and short is five and a half air assault much less. Oh had only it really sprinted? In in recent memory handful of times really had been running you know lots of lots of mile and mile plus races but all the to is get back to that form from last summer and air assault ends up winning by a couple of links While these prize that that cool twelve year old was banging away and big-hearted factor who went off at a little over even money sixty five favorite. You looked it looked at one point. You don't like it was going to come down to them and here came Armando Martinez and air assault from Orissa black. She is tough. Co-owns this air commander Gelding Oklahoma bread. Eight year old with Ashley. Pearce and Out of lightning and thunder mayor. How cool is that? There's a there's another great name from the past Florida fluoride Florida's lightning and thunder. Frank the Oro. It's the chart. Shows it being a lot closer than it really was? Actually it was in the back. Nanometer man the the chart shows it being a neck But Jacob had pretty much wrap things up. Holiday joke got a big price. Twenty six to one long shot on the board game second that was in the third leg. Frankie Doro and that Terry's temper ran well. The one horse that we talked about wanted you to us at twelve to one and Frank de Oro able to withstand that and then came the big price and in the nightcap. There was some serious. I sent out the the The list of will pays and they were you know they were substantial. I mean there were six lots of six figures. And you know you had a few actually had a few courses that flirted for portions of the race. It was a one mile race so there was a lot. There are a lot of opportunity as you were watching the You know in some ways the you know the three turn mile is is a little bit more I don't know it's just the there's there's more of this board of Really Kinda Watch it the six-furlong races you know. I turned second turn. And it's a lot of hurly-burly The the mile was fun because horses made a couple of different moves that Mumford. I threw Mumford in as a C. And Mondo Martinez. As as good as he rode air assault he moved a little early on On Mumford and Mumford would have produced. I'm curious because That was a that. Was One of the good numbers. Mumford would have been a forty six thousand dollar payout best trick yet came running late along with spunky kitten but at that point Jacob who had been really patient and kept big Egypt. Who was the actually went off is the third choice which is tad surprising. Favorite thunder box did not last long. I mean really offered very little was done be- even before the half-mile pole and Vig Egypt. Meanwhile just kind of let everybody spar up in front and then came swooping and drew off at four to one so fourteen thousand six hundred and twelve best trick yet would have brought back a hundred and seven thousand so you know this is this is a this is a five figure payday and obscure for some players that got into this and are looking at a track. That's not familiar and so forth. It's gotta be a tremendously satisfying so. Congratulations everybody that that scored and a lot of people. I'll get the official number when Chris joins us and I mean fourteen thousand and the pool was two point three. So they're they're taken out gotta be taken out a half a million so one point eight so there was. There were substantial. Tickets are a lot of people got some money and probably got some at a great time. Considering everything that's going on it was fun. It was really. I thought what you wanted to be there were no. There were no headaches. There were no no sending it upstairs. You know there's going to be bad rides. That's that's GonNa happen anytime so we'll talk to Chris in this hour. People were to tell is gonNA join us a little bit as well later. Sid Sire Watch refocus brought to you by hill and Dale talk about a couple of a couple of the winners from the weekend and see how said he's doing and asking today asking. Does I talked to yesterday? He's got he's got Joan they got something tomorrow. So we'll do it again on a Wednesday. And Seth Merrill later. I'm sure seth is going to look at Tampa and on that topic. I can tell you. It's a very nice nicely. Pick four including a maiden special way with some pedigrees and with the sugar bear shook McKay. He's got creed in here. The Honor Code. There's some interesting second time. Starters including including a horse might be. There might be a little little little something interesting here in. Hemingway has got an Arizona. Brad called Holy Cross second time starter and in. Hemingway doesn't start a Lotta horses but happens to be good with second-timers already this winter. Had some Second Timer Success. Seven eighths maiden special weight today as kind of Co Feature. Very good card. It's a very nice sequence first level allowance on the spreading on the dirt for the olders. Then there's a ten claimer phillies mayors full-field going a mile on the grass. And then this made a special and then a first level allowance turf. Sprinting field. The ten so Tampa back on your menu today. Oaklawn and Gulfstream tomorrow and of course and will rogers will wrap up their week today as well and as as it happens speaking will rogers a goodly double today the first level allowance going six fillies and Mares and probably look at this. This is a horse and Has got a leroy. Dan A moment mayor name. Valentina for husband David or together this source has been a keeneland working and Shows up in this? Call it a twenty one thousand dollars today. Steve Asmussen's got a a turfed dirt. Mover the justic queen broker maiden for fifty at Sam Houston bred by Jerry. Jones thought it kind of came down to those two first and third choice favorite and the third choice and then there's I thought US Special Forces looked very tough the nightcap so here's a quick double five ten with the nine but then backups with the five and eleven. How about that five? Ten with the five nine eleven and you can press the nine in the nightcap. Let's will rogers and while we're on the topic before we go to break in joins us. The two stakes didn't mention the steak on Monday. I did talk to you about. She's all in and it was in fact the MAGNA graduate PHILLY. She's all wolf and boy. Did she get that? She was five to two went off a two to five that that's that's the dyslexic morning. Line she's all wealth and maybe she stepping forward right. Might be you know. Certainly you know the mayor. If you don't remember her she was a really nice source. And I can't remember if I cannot remember if I don't Think Donny. Don emailed trained her but he did he did and Mr Zoellner bread hers. Well Million Dollar Winner Sixteen wins in thirty career starts. She's all should really look at her produce. She's been off the track cents. Wow I'm I guess I'm getting old. She's been off the track since two thousand thirteen she was really nice Great at stake winner Phipps. They were looking for a great one. A couple of great one second in the Delaware Handicap in twenty thirteen. How about that and that had to be against that's against Royal Delta right around that time I think she went back to backs so anyway. She won the cinema on Monday. Or Yeah on on Monday and Kenny's ghost yesterday. For Theresa. Linak. Let's take a break. Pete's going to join us back after this apple raises with Steve on Sirius. Xm Radio Relation two year olds in California. Police consider leadership leading all natural pace. He's the Great Lucho Eliminate Ph the list of trainers who trust leader shield. This shouldn't you turn word more contact. Joseph will take five zero zero. Take the business of horses. In the world's only accredited equine business program the University of Louisville Equine Business Program. The University of Louisville has a legacy of excellence for more than twenty five years of equine business. Education classes are taught by industry experts in state of the art facilities located in the heartland of America's Equine Industry the University of Louisville Equine Business Program. When it comes to horses we mean business for More Information Visit Business Dot Louisville Dot Edu slash equine here in Pennsylvania. We have the best breeding program in the country. Thanks in part to our Resource Development Trust Fund. It's a trust. It's not tax dollars and by law are fund is completely protected. These are difficult days for all of us. What life in America gets back to normal and it will our. Pa breeding program will be here stronger and better than ever to learn more about how we're protecting the trust go to bread dot com to watch a short video. Have you seen this commercial career University of Arizona Race? Track Industry Program can prepare you for an exciting career in racing. Turn Your Passion into a paycheck horse. Racing sports fabric went to Todd pletcher to and lots of other major players in every area of the industry really like what well for starters. We have graduates who are executives at. Churchill downs naira Darlie America Gulfstream. Keeneland you name it. They're also regulators racing officials. Bloodstock agents track announcers. Mike Class had a job placement rate of almost ninety percents. Wow what other college program has results like. What career track are you on the University of Arizona Race? Track Industry Program Enroll today and get on track for success. Nearly ninety percent of our students are employed in the racing industry immediately upon graduation for scholarship opportunities and more check out our website at UA at RTP DOT ORG no back with Steve on Sirius. Xm Radio And we're back at the races Siriusxm on this Wednesday and Pete Foreign. It's out I of our to Brooklyn visits today and with Haskins actually with askin coming on. Today we've got. We got a to some degree a Brooklyn. Troika the visit today because Steve Of course hails from the borough the home of the sweat hogs and beat good morning. You need only hear that accent. He belonged to them and club. I- Brooklyn Wednesdays are a lot of fun we've been running around so much good too good to be back in the normal time window for us and no better way to kick off any segment in these times and with that Trampled by turtles cover of the pixies whereas my mind perfect all well. Well I saw you saw the article. I meant to send this Tina. The there was a piece I saw about. You know how people are having these particularly vivid dreams that it's come to light somehow As part of it. Oh dealing with the unusual circumstances and so yeah. There's a big mental component to all of this and beat. I mean it's pretty clear that those of us that that play horses we've got this. You know daily diversion that I think is keeping a lot of people stable insane hundred percent hundred percent right. We're very fortunate for the racing operations that have persevered the fact that they're doing it responsibly. And have found a way to make it work. You know always look forward to time playing the horses and you never never more so than than now. It is a great distraction. I meant in fact to get up today to add Hong Kong to the repertoire ended up Ended up sleeping in an feeling Feeling a little lazy about that but between what we have going internationally and of course daily domestic action. It's been it's been fantastic. And that's a you know you mentioned the thing about the dreams and it's absolutely right. I guess the straps the uncertainty whatever. It is in the brain. They've definitely been. They've definitely been a lot more vivid usually nothing to do with what's going on in the world now but there there definitely is something to that to that concept but as a Horse Player. I couldn't be couldn't be more grateful for the tracks that have been persevering running through this and the other shore working hard to get back online. I mean it's it's hard because people don't understand that the the the reasons why it's not that our businesses is You know it's not that our businesses is worth more than another business. It's that in terms of practicality and the way that our businesses run can be do so it can be done in a responsible way and not like you can just leave these. The horse's needs to be taken care of anyway. So you've got ninety percent of the infrastructure in place already. It's not like these other sports struggling to figure out a way to get everybody in the same place like golf. Everybody already isn't more or less so with just a little bit of wrangling. We can hopefully have a lot more racing in the near future. You know I don't have any inside Info but it just seems logical to me that we're GONNA be able to to get more sooner than any other sport is able to do and I think it's GonNa help in the in the keeping back to where is my mind keeping Sane in these times. There's a couple can use that as a as an opening to update people on a few different jurisdictions and actually a couple of different disciplines as well just so happens This morning I noticed where gay prepar yesterday evening. He mentioned that he's had. He's harnessed side and he said he believes that a at about this time next month they'll be quite a few of the harness tracks operating that they'll be up and running and then on our end There's a couple of a couple of things one of them will cover today here in this hour with Chris. Kotulek later today. The Nebraska Raising Commission is almost certainly approving fodders request to keep running into May and Tampa. I'd reached out last week late last week. The People Ruby and I hadn't heard back but I saw yesterday where Marco Flynn was quoted as saying Tampa Has Reached out to what what amounts to Florida. Florida's horse racing management body which is like is like the the bureau of Commerce and some crazy for those of you that have never dealt with with Florida. There is no commission. It's it's a very strange setup in Florida but Tampa expects that they're going to get approval from Tallahassee and so those two will extend and then I saw in the in the star Trib from Minneapolis. Saint Paul the the Canterbury season they are are gearing up to allow horses to come onto the racetrack and they sense that they're in position To it get going soon so yeah. Prairie meadows is also got their finger on the pulse and and as soon as they get an opening. It looks like they're gonNA get going Indiana watching we're hearing that Keeneland is is. I had originally heard that. The Pete that Keeneland was going to do something at Ellis and that there was going to be some sort of a co op to some co-oping of racing at Ellis with the keeneland the sakes calendar. We'll see how that plays out. Keeneland apparently may find a window to to run a few days so that's being explored. I mean we're we're absolutely you know. The train isn't moving at full speed. But you you can feel like the coal cars is being stoked. Yeah I've heard a few different rumors. It'll be interesting to see what happens. Especially you know New York and keeneland boy to be able to get back. In either of those places I think would just feel horse players hearts with cheer nothing against some of the smaller tracks I mean. Hey we've shown how will go. And and and and support the places that a persevering through all this but I just know personally. I mean if racing. We're going in New York right now. I'd be into like never before. And maybe that can happen by June. And when are the states of? You're hearing rumored out about keeneland Steve. How far in the future well yesterday afternoon? Ron Mitchell wrote a piece that I saw at At blood horse and he had he had talked to Bob. Allison and Maybe we'll maybe we'll reach out the BOB. I got a window in our three today. And see what they're what they're talking about but Ellison wrote that They're working with the other tracks. The figure out in a when there might be a window for them to run and the original thing. I had heard was that that the bluegrass that they would potentially run and specifically the Bluegrass at Alice but now it appears that they've got more of a of an idea to you know to have some sort of an assemblies of dates. I mean maybe almost like a Kentucky down style You know two or three days for a couple of weeks in a row something maybe on on those lines. But they're they're obviously they're obviously preparing for something And working with Churchill analysis in those discussions originally heard they were shooting to do something around July. This sounds like it could make sense ahead of ahead of that me. Well it depends on Frankfurt for Bashir is is working very hard at maintaining things and has done a nice job and I mean they're all in constant contact with with him and with Frankford and I dare to. Some degree feels very similar to the New York situation. I you know I've talked on a daily basis whether it's with Gary or with other people at Naira and You know they. They hope that they can get started in the end. May but I mean there's nothing happening before the fifteenth based on Komo's extension. Yes yeah which makes sense and that timeframe would be fantastic. I mean as far as I'm concerned I take that as a sign up for that right. Now it's tricky. It's tricky and it's actually one of the so weird I mean I don't WanNa get too much into the politics of it but there's a lot of things that are very negative about the way. This whole situation has become politicized but I do think racing in New York and Kentucky have some extra hurdles as a result of that in the fact that the both Both governors have. Actually you know In New York you can argue about the the start date and all that but since things got you know real at say a really good job in New York and Kentucky did really good job actually and being able to be a head of the curve relative to us but I almost feel like in a funny way. The fact that those governors have done. A good job has worked against racing in a funny way. Because it's politically so hard to like you to be blowing against the it just because racing is so weird and in such a unique position but it doesn't make it easy for racing to make a case in New York right now. No I kind of exception even though is it hard politically to make that case. Well I don't think I don't think it's political in the case. I don't think it's political in any of the really in any of the settings when it comes to what we're trying to accomplish it the the reality is that every one of these states where where you know in the thirty plus jurisdictions and get to Georgia in a minute The every state government is going to be desperate for revenue every one of them and it behooves the state governments to let the racing venues operate. Because it's going to it. It brings them revenue. And they're going to need it there. There's people there's people in Georgia and I just answered a twitter a legitimate twitter complaint. I mean first of all you've got. You've got a moron of epic proportion. I mean the most disgusting if there's individuals that are in place In various governments around this country kemp is is perhaps the most Venal most disgusting specific individual in place in a state government. I mean as awful as possible. They're going to end up bankrupt in Georgia and they're going to. They're going to be very unhappy that they didn't take the opportunities that George horse racing has been offering them the last five six seven years since mutual macho beyond the fact that the people in Georgia can't bet online not to mention. You know what what what you know. The the Georgia horse racing team is hoping to accomplish in terms of. Actually you know having a real venue and racing. They're they're going to be desperate. And so maybe there's more hope than ever that The Georgia horse racing People can get some traction. That's a that makes a Lotta Sense. I just going to be very unusual second and third order effects to come out of all the stuff of course and maybe one thing hol one tiny positive at least as far as it goes in and they and their stay calm as well. It's just so it's so. It's such a complicated morass and here talk about you. Know How New York and Keeneland GonNa get back running. That just makes me you know. I'm I'm looking forward to that. All out of proportion. I'm so excited. The idea the happen sooner than later. Well we're also waiting at as early as today right. I mean supposed to be early this week that we were supposed to hear what happens in L. A. Little bit of an earthquake. I guess This morning I was very early. Great Yeah did not a big one. Three point eight and out there that you know that. That's that's like a truck rumbling. By her exactly so you know. We're we're keeping an eye on what a what are what's keeping you busy and I saw I saw. Jonathan had a long form visit with the Michael. Mccarthy and Michael's very thoughtful and and has got such a great Such a great background and history in the game. I can't wait to listen to that. Of course good timing to would see getting The grade one over the weekend McCarthy and J K have a long standing relationship so I think Michael's great in interviews generally but I think you're going to hear In even more interesting side of him potentially that show up right now drop last night up little red in the money. Podcast DOT COM. We're keeping the show's coming MAPRA. Near show is out for the week already. We plan on doing something. Hopefully if my plan sticks later this afternoon we're going to show geared towards. We've gotten a lot of questions from newer horse players. We've heard all these stories about the eighty nine up. Being way up. You have gotten a lot of questions from some of those new players and also I mean in England if the if the TV viewership here I know is up massively in England the stateside doing the report. I heard up five hundred percent which makes sense given that now even for them. Us racing being the only game in town. I've had a lot of questions from folks wanting to look at tool such is time for them. Us and hopefully we're going to show made this afternoon where we look back at last weekend and go over that. I've got a full shift on sky. Sports racing looks like weekly now as long as we can get the technology to hold up what you did last week. I'm GONNA be doing a full shift for sky sports racing which will be. Super Fun and then Friday. We've got our latest in these handicapping or horse players. Happy Hour Contest. And we've got a new wrinkle this week which is fun. We've gotten the Breeders Cup to kick in one hundred fifty so instead of just having the top eighteen or whatever. It's GONNA end up being winning their way into the Saturday. Readers cut betting challenge qualifier. We're going to have a a hundred dollar gift certificate perverse than fifty dollars Gift Certificate for second or the Breeders Cup store so just I figured I'd make the broadcast a little more fun if we can have a little bit of the top of the of the standings. Yeah so that's going to be. I think it's a six or seven seven race. Picking pray this week looking at Tampa and Gulfstream cost twenty bucks all the proceeds go to the thoroughbred retirement foundation and the thoroughbred after Carolina. We also putting in a bunch of plugs lately for the New York Race. Track CHAPLAINCY and we haven't gotten to donate to them the great work they've been doing throughout this whole thing over on our page at the T. R. F. site which is Tr Inc dot org slash players. You can give to the T. R. APP. You can give to the racetrack chaplaincy and we always encourage people think you know we've had some good things last week on the show mad at J. K. We're giving out all kinds of Winners and we got a bunch of donations which we love. That's we're and I know you have a similar attitude. Steve Bunch better we can give away great Info for free and let people pay for it essentially by supporting our partners. And you know we've had no better partner than these charities since the beginning of the company and the other fun thing is this whole thing will be broadcast and for the first time we're going to expand the platform you've been doing it on. Facebook live but facebook readers page. But this time I think we've figured out. A way to do it via periscope as well which means folks can watch right from twitter so we assume that'll be. Let's make it a little bit easier for people to know what's going on and follow so folks. WanNa play the last tweet. I just sent over at looms. Boldly we'll give you a link to join in the contest to join in the fun and we've had some fun fun. Celebrity guests to both in the context slang. We had a mattress. Mack played in a bunch of these. And then you had We had Gary Stevens crashed the broadcast Not last week but the week before so you never know who's going to turn off. We encourage people to come join us and thank you to all the listeners and viewers nights notes of people Who appreciate the idea of being able to get together? And just you know the vibe that we liked to create of just like you're sitting around track talking horses and having many people be part of that community as possible. It's not you wouldn't call it A sense of normalcy but it is a way to have some fun during the chaos absolutely and Friday. The perfect timing and You know whether people are home or some of the people that don't really have maintained and continued to to work But it You know it's nice something. Everybody is happy to have something to look forward to great for just for me personally being able to have these extra little bits of work. It's tricky to tricky to work them in around all the extra responsibilities these days. I've been doing this very call chased around looking for a safety pin for a little project parent and I are working. You know it's it's it's it's been very Blast going to say to be able to keep things going With all these different shows and the team has really stepped up. Jk doing these hour-long sit-down but I think it really it adds nice dimension. It's something that you know. Th The two our visit you get you get different content. You get a different vibe. And it's been it's been great and may only talk also debuted her talk racing to me show which has at least temporarily taken the place of our in the ring pedigree podcasts which will return some point but it's been very hard. The industry shows been hard for me to be on top of it and Sean to my co host in that one has essentially been on paternity. Leave as well. But that'll be that'll be back. And we've got plenty of stuff in the interim to keep you busy can check out everything we have over at PODCAST DOT com. And if you just look for in the money media network on I tunes or wherever you get your podcast you'll get the full array of shows and there's a lot of evergreen. Yeah we talk about the news and we have conversations like the one we have before about. What's GonNa be coming online when what's going to happen with? Derby rediscovered CETERA. But there's also a lot of evergreen stuff if you just want to check your brain and think and talk about About racing for a while as well whether it's Mapra near looking at the Best Derby Field. The last twenty years or K. And I talking about not simple handicapping. It's a like as you've done we've been we've been shooting to have that mix of content related current events but also just you know four horse players look forward to another nice week and Then of course next week we've got you have derby it's Arkansas Derby but If you have a big one to look forward to stay safe and keep out of trouble and we'll talk. Thank you my friend. We'll be talking soon. Beat FOREIGN INTEL. Let's take a break. Chris Goulash is GonNa join us from honor. And we'll recap the activity last night and the look ahead They around noon today. Expect the BRASSICA racing commission to stay up their request for a meat extension. Chris got to walk after this at the races with Steve on Sirius Xm radio developed by horsemen bills. Dot Com is a cost effect. You time to the environment friendly paperless revolution of how equine industries bill and receive payments vendors are able to generate electronic invoices for each horse whose owners can pay through the same website with just one. Click say Goodbye Tax Invoices handwritten checks and postage costs easy accounting for all parties with the highest online security measures get started freed horse bills dot com simply registered with your name email address redesign up no subscription piece defenders until the first invoices sent bronner's a free account comprehensive dashboard with information on all horses owned billing records. Ach and credit card. Payment options for vendors generate invoices efficiently and receive payments quickly from both owners and other vendors syndicate and partnership managers get flexible payment options to both genders and syndicate members for more INFO. Call eight eight eight nine. Three eight forty six forty three eight hundred eight nine three eight forty six forty three or log onto horse bills dot com. That's horse bills. Dot Com get started in Kentucky over eight million dollars in additional. Money is available at the five Kentucky tracks for horses eligible for the Kentucky Thoroughbred Development Fund. Kentucky is a good place to raise your kentucky-bred come home to Kentucky and make a start D. R. F. Sports for Digital Edition your ultimate weekly banning guide published by daily racing form. Sports Forum delivers all of the analysis and insight you need for every NFL game more than forty college. Football matchups beat the spread with powerful trends and sharp angles topping. Best Bets expert. Picks Parley winners and war offered as four ninety nine issue. This week's edition free visit Europe Dot com slash sports for Enter Code R. Sports Car. You are your own. Race Track Industry Program. Prepare you for an exciting career in racing. Turn your passion into paychecks. Nearly ninety percent of our students are employed in the racing industry immediately upon graduation. What career track are you want the University of Arizona Race Track Industry Program Enroll today and get on draft four six steps scholarship opportunities and more check out our website at UA CHARKHI IB Dot Org? Why is accreditation important in aftercare thoroughbred aftercare alliances standard of accreditation and GRANDPA's provide donors with confidence that their contributions are allocated in the most effective manner? A accreditation is only awarded. After complete review of an organization after care cannot be an afterthought for the industry to learn more or support the taas mission visit Thurber aftercare dot org breaking down the biggest stories in the world of horse racing. This is at the races with Steve Bishop on Sirius X. Radio on a bus metro. Drink this thrown back when you let it go really so some walking down street on Friday. Go Fast Lane still doubt this rat John again above. We're back at the races and Chris. Cajoling joins us from Fonterra Park. The morning after And this I'm the force out goes smooth silk and Not For every better but You know if there was a little bit of a trip in the first leg but Certainly no no hiccups Chris and I thought in a Lotta ways really fun and satisfying sequence. That put a lot of money and a lot of hands Good Morning Good Morning. Steve Yes. I agree through the Silk. I liked that. Not For all obviously and particularly in the penultimate leg The the favor getting beat their flushed out about seventy thousand plus people Then then you so So quickly and helpfully put up the well-paced for the final leg and in fact it was then the favorite Of the will face that Awarded Fourteen thousand dollar. Pay Off on the fifty cent increments so the money did get get. Dust dispersed obviously and it was What was it three point two Shoot I had the number right here. Anyway it was. It was three. Yes that's right I'm I'm getting my millions confused here at Palmer Park. I'm not used to dealing in millions. Stand there was three hundred and sixty thousand and the total pool ended up being just under two million three hundred and sixty thousand so the new money. The new money ended up being what one point? Nine Million Yeah. The it was a two hundred and the two million three hundred fifty. Four thousand six hundred and seventy four is what they bet into it And so we were less than what we were on the day where it was a total of four point one million but the the good news is the overall handle was a comparatively greater than when we had that seven seven. Point two million now. We didn't surpass seven point. Two million we got the six and a half million yesterday but but They came right back and bet that late. Pick four to about a quarter of a million dollars betting into that pool so that was good to see and people are becoming more familiar with our product and And we appreciate that and they seem to appreciate it as well. Look you're not always going to have Re dollars and sixty cents winners or seven dollar winners. And you're not always going to have fifty plus winners. It's that's how it goes whether you're talking Saratoga Santa Anita it's It's just People getting familiar with with new surroundings and on a park on the friendly confines for such. And I think you know after after the you know the queue controversy two weeks ago I think what into some degree? What's happened is I hope that the point that I brought up not just with you but I brought up with several people as we as we talked about it in the aftermath. I think there's been a lot of players that hadn't ever really paid attention to a bowl ring product and I think Chris to some degree the more they are watching the more they understand how these horses kind of stack up on the turns and I. It's a tighter. I talked to Tony Black about it afterward. And you know. He explained how it's different for the for the riders. And why it happens and you know you're also talking about horses that you know might not You know have the cornering ability they had As a as a young horse So you know there. There's a there's a a basic difference to what you're betting on and agree Steve Pardon me if I can you know what other five Eighth Mile Racetrack see? People have for handicapper than Los Alameda. At least that they're served up on a on a routine basis and they can become familiar with. And you know I'm thinking about it when i WanNa talk about the good old horse racing of yesteryear. I think of what quite bounding Basque and Java gold and and Ferdinand and all I mean did I not throw you back into time there or easy goer and and and Sunday silence and and there's a good percentage of people who only jumped into racing. Twenty years ago. Well guess what. All of those horses were finished with race career twenty years ago. So so this is a new paradigm handicapping a five hundred mile race track and and it's not pretty. It's the The Jackson Pollock or the Picasso. Some artistry in the Saddles as opposed to say a REMBRANDT or Moneo. Or something like that. Then you know smooth and and well defined a Norman Rockwell or something I'm like the artist purist would probably just Heating Right now. I just sat out there. But no that's the that's the deal. It's ROCK THEM. Sock them and we talked about this last time. I was on your show for me as a race. Caller my race calling got so much better when I started calling on a on a one mile racetrack because things just flowed more smoothly. That's the best way I can say it exactly and I and I also think you know it takes it takes people Watching for a few days to get familiar with the with the riders to I mean and there was. There actually was some some artistry to some of the rides including the one by Jake list in the NIGHTCAP. You know where he basically you know the mile making the three turn circumference and he just waited it out and he made the last move and ends up. You know winning easily so yeah people people will people will adjust yes. Let let's hope so. And the by the way speaking of a big day and I and the mandatory payout. The next one is scheduled and this is the one. We've had scheduled all along because we have scheduled to the end of our racing. Season would be Wednesday April twenty ninth and that's the day of the Bosman stakes. We'll have couple of stakes races. That day number of ship ins we believe Doug O'Neill's fight on who had been racing in. May Dan In graded stakes company Another couple of other ones from around the nation going to arrive for a fifty thousand dollar purse. Because there's no other person money to run for for quite a few people so we're excited about that. But April twenty nine is the next mandatory payout. And that's a week from today. Well and you mentioned vessel men's and pump and Pantry. I I was. I was drawing a blind. Who was pump? I couldn't remember pumping WATT PUMPING. Go but it's pumping pantry and And they're big. They've they've they've got a they've got a of locations the convenience store and and Kinda truckstop operation. Yeah because I from there's who was the other way there was another there Iowa based there was a terrific an Iowa I can say the name Casey's would basis. Well yes I'm saving you. I'm not helping our sponsor but I'm sorry on the griddle. Their national radio audience there. No and so. That's that will be our big concluding day Steve but then of course today at eleven o'clock is the racing commission meeting where we will. Now find out if we can race into may and that is our intent and we're hopeful that that will happen well and every indication is that they're going to rubber stamp the their request they indicate the hope is they will approve it. Rubber-stamping in Alaska Commission meetings. We've had that have all involve the discussion of Kobe nineteen in our precautions and safety measures new protocols On every occasion we ultimately got unanimous approval from our commissions. But it wasn't Without getting grilled an and Really asked and about what we're doing and there were a couple of times. I was looking to my operations assistant in the in the phone conference. I looked at him. As like what? What's going on here you know. And and ultimately it did pass but but they wanted to make sure that we have raised the bar and we certainly have and We're we're ready to go. We have a special jockey's quarters that we've constructed that will allow the writers that come in for our sakes race on April twenty nine and Just another you know. A number of other measures that were doing to stave off the pandemic. Do you have a feel for the GonNa just kind of roll over the condition book I mean. Is there anything any wrinkles involved in in going into into? May and obviously you'll maintain the the Monday Tuesday Wednesday schedule. Yes that's the plan. We've been camped at a little bit of maybe try a Saturday but I don't know about that but the condition book will be now are racing secretary. Sees exactly what he has on the ground so I would hope it's contoured to the horses and horsemen. That are here at Point Park. And and that's important as far as You here's the thing Everybody I talked before about how to keep these million dollar. Mutual handles and check we as we push on to what? We're calling our second season of racing so the first season standard season will end April twenty ninth and and We may crown leading trainer and a leading jockey and owner then. And then just have this this Auxiliary SECOND SEASON IN. May if it is approved but you talked about it earlier with with Pete just before I came on the other tracks that are going to come online. And it is imminent. They are going to devour into the handle. That we are getting right now and there is no way we are going to pad our pockets. Florida Park and get get fat and rich to all of this. We are without getting into deep It's it's not going to be a stroll in the park next year regarding the the agreement we have here with the with the horsemen purse. Money and and so on and so forth so We we need every every dollar that comes our way yet. Well The this topic the way in which persons are funded and This topic came up the other day. And we're actually probably next week. We're GONNA probably bring in a couple of different people to talk about what you know what the situation and how I I don't think the public And to some degree even some more playing parts of the Horse Blind community understand the struck. It's important hey I'm offering up my operations assistant Mark Landis to join because my my per structure I'm a finance guy has a PhD and accountancy. He's a math professor. He loves to have a bit. He knows about horse racing. And he's he's wickedly left brain and right brain. You can sit down at a piano and just play like a mad man and then and then he can sit down and look at numbers like he's just reading the ABC's he's a remarkable guy and he might be able to shed some interesting light on the topic. Not that you wouldn't need any but anyway right here in Grand Island on a park and I'm better off where I can guarantee you that or the horsemen have you. Has Anything changed about your your relationship or you were your deals. Essentially with the signal disseminators. Why would I would be without revealing too much I would say. We've made some improvements to the the agreements that we have for our regular season and that has been paramount's to forging on but also as I mentioned In light of other tracks coming back on it might just be awash when it's all said and done but but if that's what it takes Then then I'm okay with that as well but again it's it's not like it's just all wine and roses for its here at Florida. Park is when we race into me by the way I have explained that the view I'm looking at right now out on our we have believe it or not. We've got an executive suite here at Foreigner Park and can accommodate. Maybe fifty or sixty people got a full bar. It's great for a little party. People haven't and you step out onto a verandah. It's an elevated balcony here courses as they go into the first turn people. Can you know sit outside and watch it on? Patio furniture sounds come up already. Obviously there's sometimes close to two dozen horses on our little five eighths mile racetrack because we're just rocking and rolling and we've got a stable area. I don't know if you can hear the geese in the background The Mama Giza's skis have had their little goslings. They look like little tennis balls little chartreuse and full. It's quite aside here Trying to keep them. Keep them at bay from going out onto the racetrack. That's a dangerous place But you know it. It's just a wonderful serene setting some of Norman Lad just went and gala by now. That's a name that goes back into the eighties. He was a young jockey. Then but the Bob Young. He's an outrider. I'm looking at him right now. Outrider at four hundred park since I was in my teens starting to go at exorbitant so anyway so faces some new faces. I saw some kid came by and we we have a number of Venezuelan jockeys. It hit the national scene and they've hit Farner Park as well I saw Venezuelan flag on the back of this youngsters Flack jacket and just the way he was moving in the saddle. I'm thinking that kid. He you know. He looks like he can sit a horse pretty well. I remember I did that in about nine hundred eighty nine. When I'll wrap this story up quickly I was in the press box getting ready for a meet here at Fonterra Park so it was probably late. January and I saw somebody bounce onto the racetrack on a horse. He was all covered up with the park and mask and the works as you would expect in late January and called over the clock or Stanford. Who is that kid on that horseferry? Some young kid from Arizona's name Gomez well that was Garrett Gomez Selena Gomez and he was. He had his apprenticeship for a good portion here in Nebraska and holy cow. We see something just to see you could just visually see how how different he was the way he satellite just looked like such a natural but anyway. I'm not that here and what I just saw this morning. But it's it's a wonderful scene here Going on with training hours. And I'm glad I'm able to share it with you and your listeners. Well we'll love dissipate. The news coming later this afternoon from the Nebraska Commission and Chris will look forward to next Wednesday seventy five thousand dollar Featured stake of the meat and you had the little founder Park Special on Monday but Sounds like you're gonNA attract some you know some out of towners To to the boss opens next Wednesday. And we'll do another we'll do another force out of the pick all of that Steve Let's hope that we can get to that again. We still are day to day here in central Nebraska. Doing fine Well I really appreciate it Chris and thanks the other day. Also for providing The photograph for for people that were looking to the Monday sixth race. That you know your three horses across the track and tough-angle the where the camera is the Oakland has the same challenge. Sure the care is is ahead of the of the wire so it. It is tough to discern parallel parallel and matter of fact in that race of three people in my staff and we thought we all wrote down the horse we got. It was the five in that race and then we on the inside. Five was five was on the rail and It was the four that was come on. Yeah Yeah and You know but our our Pan Camera is about twelve feet Up The stretch from the before you get to the finish line so it's going to favor that fast closing on the outside when I called Racism Delta Downs. I marked it off. It was like it was on just guessing. I think it was thirty feet difference or thirty yards. I can't me with it. Was something obnoxiously incorrect? About whether announcer's booth was in relation to the finish line. But you know what I had. A gentleman called me yesterday about a tight finish and I went up and got and got a look at the phone. GotTa look at the file and I just talked him through it and he says okay. You know what I'm content. I'm happy with what you told me there because there were a couple where the gray horse air assault one by daylight but the two horses that were involved in a tight finish. Were in the middle of the race. Track where it was shaded For the Pan Camera. Well the photo-finish shows you know otherwise it shows the result and he said that's fine. I I take your word for it. you've explained to me what I wanted to hear. And you know when when there's a pitch thrown at Wrigley Field and IT misses the strike zone and it's called a strike. I mean the UMPIRES. Get calls from head office and say. Hey Joe blow calling from poughkeepsie. Arguing that third pitch their. Wow but you know I want to be communicated let people know absolutely absolutely on the up and up. Well well done Chris. Guitar lack everybody and Founder Park. That looks to run into may and keep everybody occupied a little bit longer until some of the other racetracks around the country can get up and running and it's really well appreciated and yesterday over what over one hundred tickets out into circulation so a lot of people saw fourteen thousand dollar bump in their in their accounts and reporting on twitter that they had to so Absolutely good for them. You're terrific custodian to Bonner and the nation as well Steve Appreciate. It could not at all Chris CA- to like everybody fodder bark. Let's take the top of the hour. Breaks Fernando is going to join US sire watch refocused brought to you by hill and Dale and a couple of very interesting winners and not just winners. Either there's some really good stories From the Apple Blossom and also coming out of a couple of other spots that I want to ask Sid Fernando about join us next hour too at the races. It's at the races with feedback on Sirius. Xm radio relation to your roads in California Kentucky pleaseconsider leadership leading all natural pace. He's the greater eliminate the worst trainers who trust leader shield. Shouldn't you join the team to learn more contact? Joseph Allante five zero zero the business of horses in the world's only accredited equine business program the University of Louisville Equine Business Program. The University of Louisville has a legacy of excellence for more than twenty five years of equine business. Education classes are taught by industry experts in state of the art facilities located in the heartland of America's Equine Industry the University of Louisville Equine Business Program. 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You name it. They're also regulators racing officials. Bloodstock agents track announcers. Mike Class had a job placement rate of almost ninety percents. Wow what other college program has results like. What career track are you on the University of Arizona? Racetrack Industry Program Enroll today and get on track for success. Nearly ninety percent of our students are employed in the racing industry immediately upon graduation for scholarship opportunities and more check out our website you eight chart t I P dot org. Have you heard about the new handicapping and betting that is sweeping the nation? It's called I bet and it puts the power of AI assisted. Handicapping seamless wagering and live. Hd video in the palm of your hand. Thousands of bettors have already made. I bet there were two handicapped. Met and watch more than three hundred of the world's top tracks is a time for you to join them and when you give I bet a try today you can cash in huge welcome bonus sign up with Promo Code Sport of Kings. All one word and you will get ten dollars just for joining as well as a ten percent rebate. Up to five hundred dollars for your first thirty days with that much free cash on the line. What do you have to lose yet? Started at first dot com slash pet-. That's number one. S T dot com slash. Bet and. Don't Forget Promo Code Sport of Kings when you sign up and if you already have an express medi-cal way ahead of the game simply log into. I met using your username and password on your off Delores in twenty one years since Saturday's uninstalled research activities. Legal degraded naturally support line. Eight hundred five to two thousand seven hundred now back to at the races with Steve BIC on Sirius. 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EP. 68 with Dulio Ariano

Swarfcast

33:48 min | 1 year ago

EP. 68 with Dulio Ariano

"Hey everybody thank you for listening to swap cast before we start we have a quick ask you if you love the show please rated and write a review on your podcast APP or tell somebody about it. It really makes a difference for us and we appreciate it. Okay on with the show. Many years I will look at machines over for sal and I would use drapery man. It'd be so cool to have one in nine garage but it. It's a lot more difficult than that. You know once you start thinking about everything that it takes to run a shop to actually have your own shop. It's a lot up. This is swath cast. I'm Noah graph. Today's podcast is an American dream. Cream story our guest is duly. Oh Arianna owner of premier Swiss tornadoes shop in Rockford Illinois which he founded in two thousand seventeen. Do We owe came to the United States for Mexico when he was eighteen years old after working in various machine shops the got a job as a technician at tournus. USA back at tornadoes he developed skills and relationships that gave him the foundation to start his own business at the age of thirty four looking for a screw machine rotary transfer machine or CNC machine graph bankers guy you covered when you're buying any used machine. You're taking a risk ask. So it's important to buy from someone who knows their stuff and who is going to give you straight information about what you're buying. Graph pinker has a family owned firm. That's been dedicated. The selling great machine tools to the turn parts industry for seventy five years. It specializes in the top multi spindle brands including index Schulte Gildemeister Tornadoes Z.. PS ACME and Whitman. They also sell a variety of other types of used equipment such as CNC SWISS CNC turning centers and parts washers machine. Tools are complicated. If you're going to buy one you should go to people who are knowledgeable and committed to the industry learn more at at. WWW DOT graph pinker dot com that's www dot G. R. A. F. F. P. I. N. K. E. RT DOT COM. I am really really happy to have duilio Outta Yano. Founder founder and owner of Premier Swiss on the show today welcomed Giulio. Thank you thank you. We're having I met Giulio. I Dunno no no maybe a year or two ago. We were doing something with tornadoes Swiss and somehow we got connected with him Maybe he was working for tornadoes at the time but he was he was found of information and he's been a a really interesting important person to know so. I'm really glad glad that we got to reconnect on this. So I WANNA talk about your company and I want to get a little bit of background anew. How you got into this business I just give me Real brief summary of Premier Swiss. And and. What you guys do while we're on machine shop and it's a general machine shop no wouldn't produce a specific product MHM SARALA contractor. They got job shop on DAB shop and you mainly run tore no Swiss machines. I only wrong Carlos right now yes because often people here machine. CNC machine shop and they think you know May's Zakar all all kinds of stuff males lades. Yeah it's historically Swiss right now and which Torn machines do you guys have. So I have the older generation Three different sizes that Catan Twenty Okay and you're talking like curly to thousands late nineties early two thousands okay and now You've had quite a journey to to lead you to starting this company so I wanna WanNa go through that Are you from Chicago No I moved moved here about five years ago in the suburbs I was leaving I in Rockford Illinois. Okay I would say since I was like eighteen. And where were you born. I was born in Mexico. Okay and when did you come to the United States it was two thousand one in two thousand two thousand and one. I was eighteen years old when I can okay interesting and so you came here you had family here or you came with some family. My brother was here and my father was here. Okay my father. He was leaving mostly here since he was very young and he wanted to bring those scenes. We were kids but Going through the right process to come into the United States is a very long process so we have to wait a long time but finally happened. Yeah probably harder now now even so then you were here. You got here when you were eighteen and What did you do then when you got here for for work or school or I really wanted to go to school but It was not possible right away Mike Together Regular College University On Yeah and then I took a few jobs that were can porary. Nothing solid when I when I was twenty I start working for this company. which is one of the jobs considered a solid job and I was for eight years until I got into? CNC What was the job. It's a company that makes pressure pipes. Weather for water. Lines were a whole town or even for tunnels host in back. There is several tunnels in the cargo. Area that we produce those types for Thomas interesting so it was somewhat like technical physical job ends on. Yeah it was more physical It was more physical. I mean there isn't machinery there but there's on all CNC machinery is more For example there's machine through role the steel for those tube and there is a while there's a wallet together to create steal to not from there there is other processes where they would concrete in molds. So it's a lot of physical work yet. Okay Okay and then then you had a shift in your profession so tell everybody what what happened next. Yeah my brother has always believe in education. He always wanted to go to college Degree that he was always pushing me to do something to take anything within to go to school and I did took some classes prior to that but it was more about need I'm asleep usually when I came here. I didn't speak the language so I had to learn English so I took several courses here and there but nothing to focus was on getting a degree so when I was working there I was comfortable. I was making this money for my age on so I cannot put school cool to just you know content. Yeah I was content with what I had and he kept insisting you're and he's the one that told me about CNC machines he's the one the investigation Strolling me the machines. And what was he he doing. He was also going to school for for her. He was going to back that he was trying to get his associates. Degree degree So just general at that point all right but he was still going to school on. We both held a fulltime job. Uh where we were working ten to twelve hours a day. Yeah okay so he says deleo. There's you know. CNC Boys you can get some CNC education. You Might WanNa try this at Sarah And then then what happened. Yeah he he actually said that he said it was very interesting feeling. I never did anything. At one point. He used came into the house. Thousand said I just signed you up for glasses. You'RE GONNA start this day like what and Literally House. That's how it happened I was like okay and I wanted to classes. And that's how I started. Okay so fast. Forward many many years later. You're working as a technician at tornadoes. How did you get from there to starting your own shop to me? The way happened in in in. It wasn't meant to happen like them. Now that I look back in think about it It's the the biggest part of it. When I went to any customers working tornadoes I always wanted to lead given a good reputation by name MHM? I always wanted to make sure the customer was happy. I also wanted to create a relationship. I just didn't want to go there and and do a job. You know I made a lot of friends doing the job and people that I still talk to. Yeah so so. So networking is one of your strengths. Exactly Yeah So after I work at tornadoes for four for some years I was happy at tornadoes but I knew in the back of my head. I wanted to do that and one occasion. I walk into a company. I wasn't listen thinking of buying a machine there or anything. I just went there to do a job. I was GONNA do a programming class up for Customer in Michigan bought a new multi McKay. And had you had experienced now on the on the multi spindles from tournus. Yeah I did work a lot on the move these especially in the late or the second two years of my time at which one's which the multi Swiss or the multi twisted for dealer listeners. Do you have an idea for a future episode of Swath cast or is your company interested in advertising on the worst cast. PODCAST if so please send us is an email at cast podcast at g mail DOT COM. That's swath cast podcast at G. Mail DOT COM. So here you are you've done some good networking and what was the first machine you bought. I bought a the declaration Okay I wasn't planning on buying it like I said I walked into this customer to do some training and The first thing he tells me after introducing himself was He hands me at us. Be Driving says I have a machine for south. The you know anybody that is interested interesting. And I said okay Take a look and let you know I did Mike Class. I went to the hotel. I open up the pictures of the machine. And that's how started. I mean I came back to him and say well and you know what do you want for it. Yeah exactly what did you. How much damage did he want for it? Can you tell me some. He didn't give me. Yeah Price I pretty much name the price. He asked me to make an offer interesting. What what did you offer for it? You don't have to tell me I'm just curious. I mean this is what we do so yeah well If you think of Declan Tannin and if you you think of a very rare prize at uc in that used echo tammy this worry would be. Okay Yeah Yeah. Ten Grant Low Twenty Twenty S. Okay so very cool so he okay. Okay so you bought this machine and you were still working for tornadoes and then then where did you go from there. Did you go in the back of your mind. I I know somebody who might need a part done or Now at that point what came to my mind was to make educational videos. Interesting Star Channel on Youtube and make use of our programming machine. beat us about how to programming grandma hop to set up how to even tips on on what to do this what to do that. Because there isn't that much on Swiss it seems like no just just normal kaas stuff and lately. I've seen them videos to but there is not much so did you do this. Did you start your a youtube channel. Now I never got to that. Who are the first thing I did when I came back with? Where am I gonNA put it? I already already bothers machine how I need to find a place to put it. I'm in the suburbs. I'm an apartment and I mean obviously I need to find ablaze and so I started looking for players because I had already bought it and so the guy one of the reasons the guy wanted to sell it was because he wanted it out of there are not necessarily I think he had it in a warehouse. It wasn't producing anymore. It was Store in our house for you decided you wanted it near you. So so what did you do. I end up finding a place very small. I think it was like fifteen hundred square feet In in the suburbs of Chicago go the north suburbs. Yeah yeah it was in west Seattle Okay and initially is difficult to find For say building an industrial area. I mean there's a lot of things that you have to actually get on building the so I was looking through craigslist and I saw a guy that was Renting space to start your car interesting so I dropped their talk to the guy and I asked him how much he was charging per car. And he's only fifty dollars per month through the weather shrewd so I said okay Many and there I I can fit five how many you have so I said okay. Five S. two fifty. I told him I give you five hundred if you let me use the whole union. And he said that's yours by five hundred a month or five hundred for the winner five hundred a month. He was judging fifty dollars per car among and it was a heated place. It was a heated place. That was very very smart. Yeah what did he. What did he say when you were? We're like actually I don't have a car. I have this crazy Machine that looks a little bit like a spaceship and was he like. Yeah he he did. Ask Me what I was going to do with it and I tried to explain to him but even even after I explained to him if he you know what that was he said Yeah. That's fine whatever it is. I had goose Ahead a guy that was well in there before. So you know He had all kinds of machinery there. That's fine It was an berry clean unit. Either I mean it was dusty was now but but it does the job job. Yeah and I was happy with. I mean I was just happy to have a place to put my machine. Sure sure okay. So you get your machine in there and then what happened first thing I do is I installed the machine and it wasn't that easy because I'm I'm used to working with a brand new machine. It's ten fifty years you're okay. Software is is not the same because because in your old shops you hadn't worked with an older torn house all the tournaments as you had worked with. Were like the machines and brand new uh-huh she is brand new Multi you program and the control if you want to you got all the nice things and so. That's the first thing I have to. I'll have to use it. And he goes. Was it hard to sort of go back to the more rudimentary technology analogy or did you figure it out pretty fast. No I figured out pretty fast I think after I had them sheen installing and running into a day or two to figure out how to love the progress into how to said my tooling everything it is mainly that loading the program is was different from the to the new ones they lay out of the tooling. It is almost the same. Then you have a little different things but Zidan nine access or a seven access. It's NYNEX's and All right so you got up spot for the machine. You got the machine. Yeah you got some some networking and then what happens. At first I start. I designed my own art to Have something to make them. She interesting so you don't even have somebody. He didn't even have a job. You're just like all right. This is this is is the way to start. I'm GONNA build it. Yes very interesting I might was to make my own product and make those videos aside. Make my own product and go from there so i. I had a list of things that I created gated that I was GONNA make out of the list. Maybe there were like ten parts and I made navy three all right. So what kind of part was it. Like what material what. What is it complicated? Now net first one was Arrow tips for like archery interesting. Okay now one it was it simple. It's a simple. It's not that complicated. One have bad nights that in all all that stuff as it was just for practice so I may some of the awesome. I was experimenting with block on dicing. I know you can't use solemn like that. You have to do the block on the deicing today on breast and I was investigating where to the seventy two to get him black on. Is that sort of interesting. That your sample part you would decide to have to do a second op. Ano- dicing you'd think Ncua of John something that you could just take off the machine but this was a specific thing he wanted to make A. Yeah it was one of a bit simple simplest parts that I had in my list and it was one of the I saw it was sold sold on Ebay and it was sold in other websites Mary easily and mainly all those that I saw on Ebay. Were China Yeah So they're my marketing idea was. US made all right. So the thought was that maybe you would sell them direct online. Yeah Yeah Okay. So it wasn't just like A. This is a part I made. This was like something you thought. Maybe you could sell. Yeah so then what happened. I was still working at thought. No so I was descended customers And I got to this customer end and uh-huh struggling finding some Knossos for coolant to direct the coolant. That tool he he was having trouble. getting decent nozzles. You said you find in them period like he couldn't find a company that would make him and that was Awesome for the tar heels machine. Would you had holders through another company so these other companies in Germany and he thought it would be more difficult to get him from over there so he wanted to find a company in the US that would make him. Then you said Bingo Bingo. I said I'll make him for you. And he thought I was joking then he had tornadoes machines himself right. Yeah he had just bought two multis and he had a multi prior to them multi Swiss interesting. So this what he he didn't have any regular like Swiss Swiss Swiss machines for small volume. He was into like big volume. They have both. I think he's one of the biggest consumers of stars machines they have say over a hundred. ACS Machines After we had this conversation we're going to have to. I'll have to ask you about that. So he he thought you were. You were joking. And this is somebody that already had a bunch of machines and expertise and he hadn't even he and really thought about it himself. Yeah why didn't he go. Oh he did he go. Hey I can make it here. Yeah he could of but all their machines running production big shops they have the capability. They're not on. Stop a machine in Dul. This not slowing Tommy. They need ten. He didn't really say and the thing is that That's where I learned one of my first mistakes. I didn't really made it clear to him. You're like I am actually going to make him for you. you know. Let's let's talk about a price or anything so I just got excited added. I'm like I'm just GONNA show up with them on Monday. And hopefully he'll buy more so I went home Friday so you did you did you. Actually they say hey. Just wait until next week. I'll I'll I will return. What exactly did you say? Well I think the whole conversation. He took as I was playing with him but I did say to him. I'll make some over the weekend and bring him to you on Monday. Yea did he know that you own a machine or he just not your attack. From tournus. He'd he knew that I own a machine. I didn't think he knew that I could make fast. So I mean you can very easily take that as a joke you know like yeah. You'll bring him on Monday But I did. I went home and the holiday. I work all day in the machine and Sunday all day in the machine and Show up on Monday with the nozzles already mate to March surprise the Friday after I laugh he found small company based in order therefore I believe it was like twenty five hundred dollars worth the nozzles and I was like what all right so then what did he say. Eighty you thank you but no thanks. He feel bad and I I. He told me he offered to buy whatever I had made but he also told me I. You're just like twenty five hundred dollars worth of nozzles. Did he liked the nozzles that you made. Yes he did. I mean he actually they actually put one in the machine because I brought him samples and I told him you try this one to save this one man this is the operator the operator put it in. The machine is like yeah it. Perfect and then engineer came down to the floor and and then he was like Oh. He brought him Nautilus and he was right. It was like what had you talk to the boss or you were just talking to the engineer before you. I was just talking to engineer. I mean He. He's got the the management authority kind of to buy that Kinda stall so it wasn't a need for me to talk to anybody else. And he would do. I mean in fact they followed a mandate clear to him. move out seriously. Tell them you know. I'm serious I'm going to go home and I can make you saw him for Monday. So what did you sell each part for. I still have the parts in my cabinet. I never saw them. You never sold them but he said they would buy them. Yeah but I just didn't feel he. He would buy what I had. How many did you have? I think I had like four or five. Oh Okay Yeah Yeah. Yeah Yeah Yeah. I told him you know I should have told you. I hadn't made some and I think I made like fifty. Maybe that's a great story though. Yeah how how did you feel at the time where you laughing rare. You like really pissed off. I was a little upset at the beginning but the after that was like well at least I learned something from here. You can't use -SSUME Soom the big understand you if you're not clear with why you're doing what you want. And that's what happened to me. I mean I never was mad. Added them. I was used not clear with them. And I still talk to the guy now all right so this is this is win. Two Thousand Fourteen two thousand fifteen you know this was in two thousand in seventeen okay all right so not very long ago all right so then you're like back it to the drawing board and what happened next. Yeah I went back to Trying to come up with new in a like soon after I came came back and that didn't go through. I didn't make the sale and I I didn't waste my time excite learn. There was a customer end area. Yeah on the Chicago suburbs. That the often called me. And I'm the type of person that the when I was working at Doesn't matter for eight o'clock at night. If you know Saturday people call me in. I will try to help if I was able to talk on the phone. He called me in in. I helped him out and he's very stressed out so I I asked you sound like things are going well and he told me will. This is just too much work for why we can handle and I said to him. Well I have a machine and he said you do like yeah what size and I explained what I had. He said let me send you some parts and you can take a look at them and you can call them and this how started. Wow it wasn't like I was looking for it at that point but your network his what so so then he made some parts and then Do you have other customers after that. Now or is he may mainly your your your clients mainly my main gossamer right now. You can go through or go to many customers if you're now if you don't have bigger shop I mean with two or three machines you're not gonNa Sci-fi so since then you've bought some more machines. Yeah Yeah Yeah because you need. You needed him to make parts for him. Yeah mainly for me or to leave to our laws. One machine was GONNA be. He wasn't GonNa be enough so before. I met the decision because they they kept asking me if I would consider doing fulltime. You weren't working tornadoes fulltime. I was so the stories that I started making parts for them. Twenty eighteen around April and I was still working for owners than I was making bars for part-time so I work in the office and from the office go to the shop and then run parts until like eleven and then leave the machine running for another two hours by itself and Saturday is would be shop every day. Psalm this hour be shop every day. You're not lazy. Yeah but I was happy happy to do it. I mean it's one thing I always wanted to do. And after six months I purchase another machine and I sat down with the company the owners of the company and we got on agreement and they pretty very much game in a whole book of business were bought machines the same the same customer Saint Augustine. You're very cool. So Oh right now. You have one customer. That's gotten given you a good book. Business Yeah Yeah. And what's what's next taty planned and Or is your your hands are just full already. Why Ray now There is always short term goals and there's always long-term goals in the building. I'm at it's already full so you moved from the five car garage. Yeah I did last year or knocked over. When I left tornadoes I moved into a four thousand or food building with where I'm at and I will be here for the next two years? How old are you? I'm thirty seven thirty seven good age. I'm almost forty God. Help me but yeah I mean right now. I think I'm using a laid back and and you know the machine is that I have right now and we'll see how the future looks like. Yeah and you feel like your skills are improving as times going on or and you have no employees. It's just you correct. No I do have one employee. What's his title He's an operator. Okay yeah but he's he's learning. What are you most excited about in in Two Thousand Twenty two dozen twenty two thousand seventeen eighteen was more by investing year and it doesn't in twenty saves me more laid back in in. You know organized things. Yeah I do plan to get ISO in place I do feel like this is the land of opportunity. Only yeah if you if you if you do want to do something it is that will donate decide layers us matter working hard for him going up and I think there's there's a lot of quitters I think so in this business your and you you are you know now. An example of it so I thank you for being on the podcast and it was really good to to get to talk. Talk to you in more depth. Thank you the.

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