19 Episode results for "Middlebury college"

Presidential Town Hall Recaps and COVID-19 Update

The Dave Gram Show on WDEV

1:25:00 hr | 6 months ago

Presidential Town Hall Recaps and COVID-19 Update

"From Radio Vermont, it's the Dave Graham show on wd. It's your show about the people places and the issues that matter the most to you. Now. Here's your host Dave Graham. Good Morning Brian It is a Friday October sixteenth twenty twenty, and we'll be speaking today I with a political scientist and then with. A public health expert in the second hour the political scientist is Matt Dickinson. Professor of that topic at Middlebury College and and then later on Tracy Dolan, the Deputy Commissioner Health will be updating us on where we are in the. Battle against the coronavirus pandemic here in Vermont. The news is not good from elsewhere in the United States and not good from other parts of the world including Europe, which is seeing big increases is really seems to be heading back to by where they were back. In the wintertime. And one word for that which I guess. But we'll get to that in a second hour program this morning. In between will be having one of our Friday conversations with our national correspondent. Bob. Ney. It'd be weighing in just after the ten o'clock news this morning, and as always we do welcome your calls us in the conversation here today Graham Show Wd FM excuse me FM and am we are two, four, four, one, seven, seven, seven. That's a local number in Waterbury toll free number is one, eight, seven, seven to nine, one, eight, two, five, five, we always enjoy hearing from folks out there. So I believe speaking of the telephone we have matic and sit on the phone already right now this morning and. Matt thank you very much for joining me. So, politically Newsweek, I thought I would touch base with you because you're always good to get on the radio here when we want to sort of do a review of recent political goings on and Not sure exactly where to start but just sort of pick something at random the Amy Coney Barrett hearings. Off Office week, I think pretty much as expected or did you sense any real surprises here? Now wheels, surprises. With the Democrats not really pushing her on her qualifications so much is turning it into an election issue, but I mean, even Dianne Feinstein at the end of it turned Lindsey Graham and basically said, this is one of the best run. Confirmation hearing she involved with. So there's a little bit of love there which you don't see A. Surprise. But. Yeah. I mean I thought that there's been a trend in recent. Years of these nominations of the nominee. Really trying very hard to bat away any any questions it might engender controversial answers. But in her case I mean there was one thing that struck me which was that. You know some of the answers. Have, been pretty, clear, for instance, you know. The question is, are you? Are you are you basically a prolife person? Which I think a lot of the Democrats were trying to get in certain ways and. And the answer. Comes at a couple of different ways as far as I can tell one is one of which is the president's announcement all throughout his his two, thousand, sixteen campaign and more recently. That he will only appoint pro-life judges to these surpreme. Court. That's number one, number two is so of her past involvement with. For instance signing a letter that ended up in a newspaper Ad, it did labeled the Rovers this way decision of nineteen, seventy-three, barbaric and. Now she's saying. She is not wanting to save. We would go on on any. Decision relating to Roe versus Wade. What do you make of that if anything? Well. It's also the case that her mentor. Who she acknowledged in her famous Rose Garden speech. And Scalia Internet tiny Scalia has Voted against rope the reasoning underneath grow v Wade in court cases he was involved with. push back against that decision. So there's reason to believe thinks it's poorly reasoned legally but you have to understand during the confirmation process there's nothing to gain from publicizing those views. what the real question is what she's GonNa do on the court whether there'll be an even an opportunity to overturn it. I'm dubious frankly because public opinion is so solidly behind where the current court ruling is on that issue. but we'll have to see. But in the context of the confirmation I, think her strategy was I have the votes don't do anything to give anybody a pretext to change your mind like Mitt Romney. Those more moderate Republicans. Yeah that To have worked and we're expecting now that. I think actually Lindsey Graham the chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee has scheduled a vote for next Thursday. Is that correct? The schedule seem to be they. They. Get. Out of committee. Next Thursday assuming every votes along party lines and it should be debated on the floor and voted on three or four days before the November third election. Right and I mean, how do you think that'll play? I mean to the extent there still any issues that might change anyone's mind out there and that's Certainly dubious right now, but I'm wondering. Will that have any influence on the election at all? Well I think you're right. I don't think there's going to be a lot of Minds to be changed then, but it be a salient issue. As those you know remaining three to four percent of decided to go to the polls. we know from past elections. Anybody who's undecided that point you isn't paying much attention to politics. So I doubt this would have any decision impact on them. It might. Turn out trump's base He has an accomplishment here. you know maybe talked turnout at the margins in key states it will certainly dominate the news for twenty four hour news cycle there. Confirmed which I think is a safe assumption. Yeah it certainly looks that way and. Speaking of things looking certain ways. A lot of the recent polling indicates that God Joe Biden is in very good shape heading into this actually. I keep talking about a- as if the election is sometime in the future, it's actually going on as we speak but. I'm not sure exactly what the proper. Descriptive phrases are coming into this new era where we no longer have election day election season. Anyway I wondering youth. I. Mean Overall. Do you think that Biden's got a lock on this thing or do you think that there's really strong chance to president trump could emerge victorious I think. Biden. The odds are that he will win the popular vote by. Three four or five percent. It could be closer in the electoral college on the because we know comparing his current margin in state polling in those battleground states six. To eight key battleground states he's actually donald trump is running slightly ahead of where he ran. Not by much but slightly ahead in two thousand sixteen. So if you're a trump supporter, you're hoping once again, he sort of gets dealt this. You know straight flush and can somehow pull off the impossible again it's unlikely. It was unlikely in two thousand and sixteen. So I would not say he has A. Biden. Saver. You the Electoral College actually I don't think that's something we've talked about before you here. I certainly see online here and there folks debating its existence in continuation and so on Certainly if the popular vote goes with. Goes with. Joe Biden, Electoral College goes with Donald Trump this time it'll be the third time in twenty years. that. The majority has not ruled. This showing some cracks in the system. I think so I think there's a real question in the current political system in which we put so much emphasis on people voting in the importance of the vote. And yet, the reality is some people's vote count more than others and depending on where you live and it's also the case that the majority. Vote doesn't necessarily determine. The plurality winner isn't necessarily going to be the election that rubs a lot of people sort of the basic a political expert to say there's something unfair about that. Now it's you know I I would hope we would have a big debate on the meaning of the Electoral College and why some people still defended. My worry is we're trying to reform and you've talked about this. With this movement to get states to adapt this national popular vote Plan Vermont. Onto where each state commits its electoral votes to whoever wins the national vote. I'm worried that's a way of amending the constitution without really debating. So help we would have a debate about the electoral college. before we change it, but you're right. I think a lot of people would certainly think twice about the system we have once again, we had a split between the popular vote in the Electoral College vote. Yes. It's kind of weird how the way to fix an end around as maybe the end arrest. I mean, that's kind of what would it starts to feel like after a while and then we're. About. A Hall of mirrors or something but Lead. We'll. We'll get the national popular vote and moving in a minute. I just wanted to mention that you know your your discussion of how the electoral vote a little. Later out some. OUT THERE IS A. Problem here has one electoral vote for every roughly two hundred, eight, thousand residents because we have poppulation of about six hundred. Twenty Four Thousand People California's fifty five electoral votes in a population of thirty, nine, point, five million, and so what that means is that California has one electoral for each a seven hundred, eighteen thousand people in these around figures, but not go into the final three places but the. What people make of that. Well and he goes beyond that I think about the campaigning that's being done if you live in Vermont. Donald Trump maybe you think this is a good thing. He's not even gonNA come in here to solicit your vote more in California and vice versa. If you're in a solid blue state, you're not going to hear from Sorry red-state Joe. Biden. So. In all sorts of ways, electoral college creates disparities in the worst of individuals vote and you know without sort of beating a dead horse. You can see why people aren't happy about that but the question day as always what is the alternative and? Inadequate are involved in that. So if you went to a straight popular vote which seems appealing. because then everybody's vote regardless of where they live is is equal well, yes and no I need candidates are going to gravitate towards you know highly densely populated areas where they can. Use the resources more efficient like. You. I mean, I've seen people arguing about this online you know among the arguments is that. Vermont's votes would count for nothing and and. Basically. I typically see this from Republicans we get rid of the Electoral College for. Votes would count for nothing and I said, well, you know I'm remarkable. One Guy I said your vote for president trump will count for nothing because Vermont's three electors there's clearly gonna go for Biden. And your vote, we'll just go at a wayside whereas at least if one person one vote, your vote would be you know one hundred and eighty million or whatever it is and. And and count equally with anybody living New York or California or whatever. So. You get you get off zero. That's But I I mean I think some of this unfortunately is colored by. Colored by. The. People's political preferences. I. Mean People Take Notice of the fact that. That it was George W Bush and Donald Trump, who most recently benefited from. The existence of the electoral college system. Folks were not fans of these two presidents. Are Seem to be particularly exercise and I also have not seen any Republicans recently that I know of. Maybe, you can tell neither are some who advocate getting rid of the Electoral College I. Mean, you know many Republicans who are saying, we should do that. None that are alive today. They used to when the Democrats were advantage by it and you're absolutely right. They argue on principle but underneath that principle as rob political calculation about with system benefit to. Yeah I wonder I mean actually. I'm curious what the history when we're the Democrats last advantage by the Electoral College. For a long time Were more rurally spread out and the Republicans. On back in the late nineteenth century early twentieth the. The. Republicans were. More had stronger support in densely populated areas and they're the concern kind of reverse. You'd have complaints from the Republicans. Electoral College was advantage and Democrats but that was a long time ago. I don't think you know it's efforts to get rid of the electoral Polish must be legislation submitted every two years in Congress and it just never goes anywhere because. Nobody wants to. Represent a state and basically say you're going to lose the advantages you have under the current system. when before George W Bush I thought it was back in. In, the latter half of the nineteenth century. The previous time that the electoral college and the popular vote actually diverged is that right or? Missing the big. Seventy six was that reconstruction where there were disputed electoral college votes coming from three states. Both party put forward a slate of electors. And it was the famous deal there Democrats. Even though Sam Tilden. Their guy had won the vote the popular vote they agreed to give the electoral college votes to Hayes if he pulled. Federal. Troops out of the South this. Of course, the south was solidly democratic at the time and so that was made. At the last time we had a the. Split until Bush. Yeah, that's I. Mean that's a long time to go between these kinds of speeds in the see to pop up in sixteen years kind of. A little bit of A. Almost head-spinning aspect that when you take a whole historical picture of the country. And I guess that's a sign. Also just how these times how divided the country is. Maybe. That's a function of. What's happening? They're mad I wanted to get back to. Some of the headline we we wandered around a bit then got to the Electoral College, which I think is a fascinating conversation but the. WanNa get back to some of the sort of top news stories in Vermont. In the country week with you, and of course, last night, we had this strange. Confluence of president presidential candidate town halls, and it was going to be a debate but I guess it was some kind of. something else what do you make of what happened last night? I. For professional obligation reasons, I tried to take in both of them. Of course, there was an overlap of. Those kind of difficult to do, but it was like. Day It was A. Surreal experience and. Do NBC I see. Samantha Guthrie essentially debating the president talking over him. It was almost like the first debate between trump and Biden. And then I switched over to Stephanopoulos and you know you have this very lucid. low key conversation I mean Biden. Was Biden of course he wandered at times but. Could lead to understand. What? The conversation was about and they gave. An abiding one was actually a town hall people actually got to ask questions. from very few questions from the. Media was not nearly as productive. Samantha Guthrie Kinda. overdid it. She Too much the star of the show coming out of the blocks. Thought seeded the purpose a little bit of the town hall I. Understand what she wanted to do I mean Donald Trump has made some comments as president you want him. To accountable for whether it's you know is going to accept the results of the election. Does he feel any responsibility for you know deaths under covert for his stance on masks? They the asked once but I do think it was a little bit of an overkill, but again, partisans will disagree. Yeah. Of course. I mean it's so weird. As a longtime journalist, I, really sympathize with the people who are still doing this every day because I think trying to maintain the old standards of objectivity and balance and sort of. Respectful. Stenography. In some cases. And? It's very, very difficult frankly because of this character on the scene I mean it just made. You know he is blown everything up and. And, and so I mean I guess. Part of me sympathize part of me says voice she went over the top part of me served as. Widow because she was basically trying to. Trying to tame. Bucking Bronco. And that's That's Maybe what you had to do, but I don't know we have a listener online I lean from Jericho, good morning, Elliot. Hey. Sorry. I. If I had known he was on for an hour. I. Probably would have waited to hear. More of what he has your guests has to say, I, wanted the comments on the Electoral College And Far, be it for me to discusses with a political science From Pennsylvania Middlebury 'cause I I know Logistically great set It'd be a fun thing to say is you don't hear Republicans Calling for. A change because Republicans in general respect the constitution. And maybe they understand that there is reasons for these things You know being put into effect and. I recently started looking up I saw this before but I can never remember this I recently started looking at federalist paper. Sixty eight in reading because that's Were they Talk about the Electoral College and why you know it was instituted and. and. and. So those fathers did not want a democracy I mean I think people have to understand that we're a whatever you call reset representative Republic We wanted to avoid a democracy by I. Mean I mean it seems obvious that we should all vote for the president and whoever wins but that's not what they wanted and they didn't want it for real reasons and You know four thing I wanted to say that it only comes into play when there's a close election and the reason that we've seen it if because we're divided. When what it does do is it does indicate that the person who wins the electoral college has broad support across the country, and if he would've take out La County I, think it was I I, remember my looking at it yesterday you gotTa just one county in the united. States. President Bush would've won the popular vote. and. So you look at the counties. They said there was twenty six hundred counties that voted for trump. And there was five hundred that voted for Hillary Clinton in the last collect L. last election. So it it it it shows you that there's broad support. And that's really important and it really only comes into play when it's close, you know when you have a a president who's going to win by a you know like the popular vote. His probably, also going to I mean Sorry Elected the electoral vote. Saying. I. Think I understand it was a strong support to one candidate over the other. Because both GonNa Clyde and then you say. I want to get Matt Dickinson's response on the other side of the break. Unfortunately, we gotta break you off here so that we can go to the bottom of the hour, CBS News Man I, appreciate the call I think I get your drift and we'll will ask manfried some response on the other side of the break upcoming. Folks. Exciting things are happening more in Village The pitcher in Warren Store are under new management upgrades and improvements are in the works maintaining the ambiance and character while breathing new energy and resources into these iconic properties we are open while practicing all. CDC. Protocols come for lunch at Iraq and Delhi and see for yourself with the buzzes all about both businesses are hiring especially seeking fine dining room staff and sales associates for our petite still fun funky and friendly, but better than ever open daily on Main, Street Warren Village. It's the Dave Ramsey. Show wd. Political Science Professor Matt, Dickinson Middlebury College is my guest here on the Dave Graham show this morning and Met call from my lean. The break brought us back to the topic of the Electoral College, and so I thought I'd let you take another swing at that. If you like you know she, she is a defender of the electoral college talk about the how is written into the constitution and maybe those guys really meant it of course, article five in the Constitution as well as the article that allows amendments to the constitution. So what are we come down on all of this? By you make some great point that I appreciate the call. This hundred did not believe in direct democracy. On the electoral. College. is also a function of political compromise. The other states didn't want to give up the moving from the articles of confederation. So there. There are provisions in the constitution that reflect political compromise the provisions on the slavery that we would not accept today. You know this changing legitimacy I. Think is a question you have to raise your weather. We have moved more supportive majority rule popular participation election women couldn't vote. Under the original constitution so Good point I think the. Point that she makes is the support of the Electoral College. Is it true that states. In states as residents of a particular state have interests that differ from residents and other states I mean that's the basis of the Senate. This is really a debate about federalism. Federalism and states is autonomous actors still play a role today. You can make your case the electoral. College. it's just a harder case to make because a lot of. The reasons why in there, I don't think we we no longer accept and you know there was a sense that the electoral themselves we're supposed to be independent actors because of the rank and file people, Joe and Jane back from didn't have the information to both of the president. Well, I don't think we accept that today. there's a lot changed and we have to sort of. Consider the Electoral College in part on the basis of what we think is legitimate today. Yeah I. It is interesting to me that we have had this. Evolution really think about it. And evolution that has really featured the devolution of power from you know when when the noble started to take it from the king with the MAGNA Carta. To. The idea that white male property owners could participate in government in the late. Eighteenth Century. To the idea that women could participate in the early twentieth century in the idea that. People of Color could participate in the mid twentieth century. We seem to have had this evolution that features a trend toward more directed democracy and more participation. and. Maybe maybe that's why. Some of that is almost. Organic discomfort here or something these days with the Electoral College I mean when when it skews the results in in two presidential elections in twenty years and maybe if are two and sixteen years maybe third and twenty years. It Does seem like shape right? Yes and you know she. I think raise a good point which is under normal conditions. The Electoral College actually magnifies the close popular vote so that the person who wins the poppy gets more electoral college votes. We're in this weird situation where the parties are so evenly balanced and so unevenly distributed. That close elections in you said have led to the split raise questions about the legitimacy of different. Yeah interesting. Well Back to sort of aren't news I. Mean I I I think this is a fascinating conversation. We devote a whole hour to at some point but. We talked some about the. Amy Coney Barrett hearings and the. The. Town halls, last night, and. I actually back to those I mean you were saying that there was a huge contrast between the. Two events Credit Metaphor occasionally would garden hose versus firehose work. That isn't good. Yeah. You know you're getting a cool tip of information on. The, s seven. Moderated one and you're drinking fire hose. Under trump on. Yeah I. Liked that. Do debates a chance that they don't generally change vines, but they do give you an opportunity to become informed about what the important issues are and what the candidates stand for and I just didn't think we got that. On NBC and you can put your finger to anybody you want. Yeah. I mean, it does I won't. I didn't actually check I wonder what the ratings did. Last night I'm guessing NBA NBC one. What do you think? were. Have you seen I have no doubt? Yeah I mean, of course I'm. Normally. Pulling traffic. Now. There's another pretty good metaphor. Well. Onto the next. Agenda Item here. The president seems to have recovered from the coronavirus. He's telling people that you can don't let it dominate your life and it's Basically. Continues on the theme and maybe Has Been buttressed in his theme. that. It's less to worry about them. Some people make out. is at all settling well with the voters of what do you think? Recognition of the reality of this campaign that the rotavirus. Trump handling of it is the central issue. Biden? Is trying to make this a referendum on trump. And trump is trying to you know turn lemons into lemonade saying it's not that bad and. You saw this in the pen tariffs debate as well we're Harris opening attack with on the administration in Penn said, well, it would have been worse if you guys were in charge that's pretty much all Republicans can say here the trump administration. It my dad it'd be worse under the other guys but that is the issue of the campaign. There's no way you can wish it away. You know I it's it's actually interesting to me that that There's also been. A lot of commentary from the president about how bad things are. With. Violence at CETERA. On the streets of America and It almost makes you wanNA pause occasionally and say Excuse me. WHO's the president right now? And of course, he wants to blame it on the Democrat mayors of the Democrat cities and But I mean actually talked to us about that a little bit If there is their their troubles in our cities. Who's more responsible the mayor or the Federal Government It is interesting because as you point out, trump is trying to make the law and order argument in part to move the debate away from the virus and he's you know he's taking a page at the Nixon playbook. We've talked about this in. Law and order campaign sixty, eight and seventy two and against the backdrop of riots at the democratic. National Convention and so on. but the polling right now. Says even as people are becoming a little bit more concerned about. You know these protests turning looting and and so forth. It's not helping Donald Trump so I think. Your question. A significant number of people are saying, well, it's happening on your watch Donald Trump and you know you don't get a pass here now obviously. There's some local control issues state control issues involved here and you. We can sort of parse out the relative importance of each. But at this point I, don't think it's helping Donald. Trump. Because I think the discussion. A tends to. Fan. The the idea of of. Malays and just bad times in America when when he gets up any make speeches about. Allison our cities, which which by the way. I. Think a lot of folks on the right in particular have exaggerated no small extent. I mean there are there have been pockets of problems and some looting some burning. But you know you hear the rhetoric and it's all about how you know basically all of our cities have been burned down. And there's gotta be some spot on that sliding scale, they're more closely reflects reality. And? I don't mean you down downplayed or underplay the concerned about the problems. Etcetera but but I think when you when you sort of fan the flames literally and figuratively. You you. Know that it really helps the mood of the country. Then if which I would think he'd want to be as positive as possible if you're running for reelection. When you're the president and the election is about you You have to run on something more than you know fear of what the other side is doing have to have a record that you can point to in the end. and. Pointing out that violence in. The cities. You know no matter. What the dispute over the level of violence is is not necessarily then guarantee you re election. When, thing I've been struck by the absence of in this election is Joe Biden and the Democrats General. Pushing on the president who. Is the only president ever to run for reelection after being impeached. I saw one count indicating that as a last November when Roger Stone's. Seven convictions were returned. Trump's team had had racked up twenty twenty-seven criminal convictions. Remember these are imposed by an independent judiciary. This isn't just Democrats talking. Twenty seven criminal criminal convictions between January of Seventeen. When he took office in November nineteen when when this tally was reported In that actually. Sets a record in terms of the first, the opening three years of presidential term. Does the only one who competes with it in anybody's memory is Richard Nixon, the other law and order. For us to. And I don't understand why the Democrats haven't sort of like raise their eyebrows and pointed their finger and said, excuse me that thinking about law and order. Let's talk about it. Does that make sense or am I being too. I don't know. Too Much of a wise guy here or something. Well the impeachment issue I mean, this is. This is a big deal when you try to impeach the President I think there's a sense and you're right it's fallen off the radar. but as you might WanNa talk about it, they be resurrected well, not in the way that the Democrats. Necessarily WanNa talk about it but the issue I think with impeachment as it turned out not to be very popular it you know public opinion polls essentially said, we don't like what Donald Trump was trying to do with this Parisian story, but we don't think it's enough to remove the president would rather do that to the election and I think the Democrats have taken that lesson to the heart. This is not a winning issue for them. and it's partly it reminds people of. One hundred story and the Democrats are saying, we don't need to talk about that We can win this election without sort of allowing Donald trump to shift narratives to debate over, you know the President Sun and the rain. So I think that's the strategic reason why the Democrats have stayed away from impeachment. interesting. Hey, you're listening don is calling in good morning. Done. From elmore I should say. Hey, how are you? I'm fine. Thanks but you've talked a couple of times on various issues of the bias on the Supreme Court. Or the possible by assists the current candidate gets on this one bias issue on the Supreme Court. Enough thought about or totally avoided maybe afraid of it I don't know. That is the religious by. Since John St since justice, Stevens retired there has not been a single Protestant on a supreme court. You've had. Well until justice by until. Later begins, Berg passed away I believe they were two. That was yours and everybody else was Roman Catholic. WITH AWESOME EXCEPTION OF CHIEF JUSTICE Roberts who as I. Understand that was raised. Catholic. But now attends. An Episcopal Church. Would would admit the same category as my son in law who wants to Piscopo school and had a Presbyterian roommate who will at the junior Varsity Catholic Okay, no I actually I have read about this. Data's a bias to as far as I'm concerned when one major group is literally shot out. I Yeah I get. You Don it's an interesting point and I want to ask magic when he thinks about it, I would only say I. I believe with Amy Community. Barrett's of appointment in court I think saw recently that You know assuming that she is confirmed in takes her seat on the court. There will then be six out of nine members of the court who are Catholic and That is quite representation for one religious group of the country I believe they make up about Catholics make up about twenty percent of the population and so. But I, I don't know because there's this ban on a test. You know test of religion for public office. You couldn't really say in the next. Supreme. Court hearing. Hey, we have enough Catholics. You're Catholic you're out of the game or whatever. Get around that when you're trying to keep a bias out but his clearly there but I'm curious to know who ever driving at is the third one that's not Roman Catholic unless you're counting Roberts is not a Roman Catholic. Well I didn't get to that level of detail. I. Just saw a passing reference to this and some news story I. Read the Other Day where near the court was going to be sixty seven percent Catholic now maybe that was a bad estimate or something but still I get your I I, get your your point here, which is that you know I mean in ideal world I guess you'd WanNa have maybe a couple of Catholics and some Protestants and maybe Muslim or two now and then and then Jewish people certainly. Yeah and so Yeah I mean. Clearly you worry about Protestants Muslims have never been on the courts. And there's there's. I, mean if you WanNa talk about bias anyway done good point. Thanks for the call I. Appreciate it. Matt Dickinson what do you think about? What do you think about this phenomenon of? Catholics on the court. But like you mentioned historically, Catholics were not on the court. It was largely a bastion of White Protestants for most of the nation's history. Now, we've moved in the other direction I mean that reacts partly A Catholic. More than Evangelical Protestants are see the law as a way to redress social injustice. We just have a lot of Catholics going into. The law profession I think a bigger bias is eight members of the court at from. Harvard or Yale Law School and you know they're all appeals court justices. Why don't we get some politicians in there or at least somebody who's come from a different legal training now emmy. Barrett if she's confirmed. How is not gonNA follow through with that another reason to confirm her maybe. But yeah, you know the lack of the data over. The Catholic composition I think you're right. You can't have a religious test case but also religion isn't as much of a at least within the Christian side of as much of an issue. You can well remember days When you know that was A Catholic as president was a big deal religion people die if your kid comes home and says I'm GonNA marry somebody out of my face, you won't raise an eyebrow unless they say marrying someone of the other partisans party then you might. Really just isn't as big an issue now that integration. That's that's an amazing thing. I remember one time. I grew up Catholic and when when I was late teens early twenties I was being recruited joined the masons which courses a Protestant or organization and and my mom was freaking out. And I had no idea that there was there was A. There was such a a you know A. kind of a Chasm A. Or whatever. That was still so alive and lot with a lot of people and so you know I guess maybe in respect my my dear mom I I did not join the masons but. I look back on it now is almost sort of funny episode but. You're right. That is. That seems to be fading feature to some extent in large swath of American life anyway. Matt, I did want to get to one issue before the show wraps up in that is. The story in the New York Post this week about Hunter Biden and his the email he allegedly got referring to some meeting. Allegedly involved hundred Biden's Dad Joe Biden. Lot of questions being raised about the story. In terms of its veracity and it's possible links to Russian intelligence and. Rudy Giuliani is a conduit from Russian intelligence and some shyness by some in the mainstream media that. Been Pretty widely criticized in the more conservative media thighs in why the mainstream media reporting on this what are your thoughts? That you raise the point about Russian disinformation the more you look at the details of how this computer hard drive ended up. Rudy. Giuliani the more it seems like. A reprise of the steele dossier. But from the other side I, mean it just it it smells to. High Heaven has a set up. But I think the other point, you make it in some ways the more interesting one Both, twitter and facebook. Refused to allow not only today, not link to the New York Post story but they refused to allow anyone else to send links at least twitter facebook put up some warnings and. Some. Really issues in an election and this is really burning up the conservative wires here. They are up in arms about this notion that the social media giant's putting your fingers on the scale. I think that's the real story here because you can media business raises real questions about the role of the media and at what point does the media self-censor in the belief that this is. Harmful to democracy and does it felt The parme democracy I think it's a fascinating question. Well I, mean I do think that twitter and facebook both have struggled with how to respond when there are basically untruthful things being put on their. On their systems and A and I'm not saying that that's an easy thing do or always a comfortable thing to do. I think the other thing to remember here is that these are private companies and last time I looked most conservatives have respect for the idea of private companies and when people throw around the word censorship that's government activity that's not private company activity. Now, maybe these these private companies have to big monopoly. That sounds like something that would spring from the left to say something like that. So who the heck knows. Where once again, we're into head-spinning zone here. I think Well You -portant point here. In contrast to a lot of countries, Guy Media is a private organizations do have one eye on the bottom line. Yup that's just the the tradeoff made. The rules of the game and they got a late Q. Here I'm very sorry to interrupt. We were out of timing limit ago. So sorry, I thank you so much for joining me this morning. It's great chatting with let's go to a top of the hour CBS. News break. Exciting things are happening in more in village the pitcher more and store are under new management upgrades and improvements are in the works maintaining the ambiance and character while breathing new energy resources into these iconic properties we are open while practicing CD protocols, comfort, lunch at Iraq in Delhi and see for yourself with the buzzes all about both businesses are hiring especially seeking fine dining room staff, and sales associates for our peak still fun funky and friendly, but better than ever open daily on Main Street village. It's the Dave Graham Show on Wd FM and am. Thanks for staying with us into our second hour on this Friday morning. These sixteenth of October twenty twenty. What eight hundred twentieth. Spin. Not yet. A Bob, Ney joins us this morning I our regular Friday. Voice from the past when we used to have talked media news people on almost every day and. Talk meeting news kind of went away but Bob still with us and we're so glad to say and thank you for joining me this morning. Bob. I have a t shirt. Thank you. David. Says I survived Twenty Twenty You haven't you haven't yet. Isn't that a little bit premature I'm optimistic. Your that's good. I'm glad to hear. You're optimistic. Let's let's all try to keep that in. Focus. Which your top headline this morning Bob. Of course you know the town halls. A couple of stories I mean I, think that the town halls rank at the top of the Jane there. Yeah and. Different. Overall different tone. Last hour we were using the metaphor of a garden hose versus a fire is that's on right to you. Right it was. The plus side it was a different tone obviously more substance to candidates. Could say anything to each other the president couldn't interrupt numerous times. He wanted to interrupt the moderator live, and so that was good. I think what was Missing. You know if the networks could have cooperated on two things, one to spread the to town halls al so that she didn't have to talk if you wanted to between the two of them or go to Google and watch them afterwards I think that's number one number two they could have asked the candidates the same questions now, I know one media outlet doesn't want to do that, but they could have done that and have been continuity, and then the citizens questions would have been open ended. You know they wouldn't control what the citizens asked I thought those two elements. Would have been good but again, it was more substance by doing it. This way I, understand that part of. Yeah and and. I thought that in terms of content and actual ability of. The two candidates to sort of state their cases. We we kinda got more done last night certainly than we did in debate number one. Well we did and again if they could have had the same standard questions that would have been good if they weren't at the same time because let's face it. Most people did not jump probably between channels they picked you know one one or the other I would say more people picked trump because either they like him and they picked it or they don't like it and they wanna see how he squirmed or not. You know that would be the case maybe I think that Frankly. Everybody does this and watches these things I think that Biden had an easier run of it. I think that obviously Savannah got three was more intense with the president. was with Biden. A my last hour. Yes. No magic. He's a political political science professor at Middlebury College in Vermont and he he's one thing he said was if you were trying to choose between these two. Watch traffic at a car crash or traffic flowing normally. So I thought Oh. Yeah. Okay. Well, I'll confess I I actually. Live I did go back and watch the by later. So little tired this morning but I. Watch the I did watch the trump one. Life on NBC. So. I wanted to ask you about one of the things story this morning non story or it's or it's a non story and it should be a story or whatever, and that is This. Rudy Giuliani revelation about Hunter Biden this week in an email biden supposedly got from. A? An adviser to. Barista in Ukraine. And The New York Post called this smoking gun and. Much of the media jumped in and said, well, could be smoking gun or maybe it could be Russian disinformation. We don't really know A. You. Know we'RE NOT GONNA. We're not going to treat the story as if it's rock solid and one hundred percent true because we haven't been able to confirm it because. The Giuliani people won't share with us the key day like the actual hard drive or etc.. Do you make of all this. You know I'm so torn on this thing if it. You know it is trip the medium. Misinformation Alarms Nagorski furious with twitter or you know not carrying this story and that's a whole nother topic. We could talk about the social media and you know trying to regulate the net, but back to this the. Oh, I. Think you know supposedly Biden draw this laptop off somewhere it was his. First. Needs to go to one hundred Biden and say you drop off somewhere. Did you did you do that number two If the you know did you and number two you know the person that shared it probably had no right to share that I would assume whatsoever I think they signed contracts when you drop things off and so that should be looked at on the basis of legality or not or criminal action the now getting to the point you know if this is true, this is you know obviously a bit damaging I would say the least but Giuliani. You know has to cough up the proof. Just can't make these allegations within weeks of the election without some kind of proof. Here it is. This was his laptop because look if that's his laptop, there's going to be coding there that they know that it's his laptop they passed you know emails and things, and so I think that the proof needs to be out there before this runs wild Will they ever go back to doing that I don't know if Rudy Giuliani did then it's a misinformation campaign on by him. If he knowingly did that, you know if they start one day I think of and I'm speaking from somebody who's been prosecuted for something if they start one day prosecuting people for these things maybe that maybe just maybe it declines a bit. You know. That's an idea. I mean you know what I was wondering actually about this. I should find you know. Computer Tech. Association person or something to come on and talk about. The ethical rules of that trade. because. I dropped my I did this week I dropped it laptop laptop off at a local computer repair shop here needed a couple of attention to a couple of things. and if I if I thought that you know not that, I, have anything really various on my laptop but. Just the very idea. That they wouldn't honor my privacy. Would frankly drive me to another computer tech store. You know I wouldn't go to that business anymore. You know. Look if you drop a laptop off and you have child porn on that laptop, that is a given that is turned into the FBI that is a given because that's the law. That's the law if you have video where you murder somebody that's turning. But if you happen to have you turn laptop and you have porn or private pictures of you and a significant other or whatever, and your email that is not information that can be turned over. To somebody. Now, if in fact, the computer people thought that Hunter Biden deal was something that was an interesting national security. You do one thing with it. Then you would turn over the FBI not to Rudy Giuliani. Yeah CBS had a really interesting interview with this guy mcisaac. Proprietor this computer repair shop in Wilmington Delaware and. They pressed him pretty hard and and it's pretty clear that he was. You know not A. Fan of president trump certainly did not. Did Not, think that the impeachment process was fair to the president. And felt like he needed to take some steps here to counter what he thought was you know Democrats stepping over the line in a lot of this happened in. The turn of the year background December January time period. and. That's the other aspect. Of course, this thing is. For some reason, I can't imagine why why would never the Yuliana sit on it sit on that information all the way to mid October. When did they supposedly drop this off? was dropped off. I think sometime back to maybe the summer of one, thousand, nine, hundred. And, they Did they give it to rudy? No. I think I saw the again. This was that was more like January or so this year. And this is you know the height of the whole impeachment hearings and all of that stuff. So so the whole discussion about burris mind hundred and very much. In the spotlight back then. and. This computer tech I guess took it upon himself. Say I got this laptop I'm GonNa, make a coffee the hard drive. and. Pass it on. To these people. Said makes me suspicious of the timeframe if Giuliani had this. and again you know if. Again if this is true and they need to pursue hundred Biden. So be it fine you know Authorities. But I think if they aren't if you sign in for a computer I and I think your. Great. Call Computer Guy, and use aim for computer and it says it will be held confidential and they turned over FBI because they thought it was Nash Security. That's fine. Donald violate the contract but they turned over to somebody associate with. Giuliani. It does and again I would assume that's a criminal charge I would assume. Yeah. I think the It's really an interesting question I. Don't know whether there are any laws governing this kind of behavior by computer technicians or. A. Most professions have. The legal profession certainly, journalists have the society of Professional Journalists Ethical Standards doctors. People who work in the mental health field, they're all sorts of ethical. Conduct books out there for different professions I. Don't know whether there is one for computer techs. Maybe, the needs to be. I would think. Rule number. One. Very high up on the list for my from my estimation would be you you honor the privacy of your clients. Every child porn. Well. Unless I would say, unless this is a peanut unless a subpoena if you get a subpoena from. Legitimate Venus from a law enforcement agency. Then you turn the stuff over, but frankly I care about the contents. If. You've if you'RE A computer tech, it's not really your business although sometimes you know another fields are called mandatory reporters. So let's say you are working in the nursing profession and you come across in patient. Strong, evidence of child abuse or something. Then you have a duty to report that evidence. Comes into your doctor's office with bruises and et CETERA. Looking like child Chalabi. A duty to report that maybe there could be written into law that if a computer taxis. Child Porn on a computer then they have it say mandatory reporter the obligation find if that's the way you know state legislature or the Congress wants to write the law I could see. Reasons for that but. Short of that short of. Some. Kind of real standard saying this is this is the path of conduct the follow with general would be. A confidentiality for your the client for whom you're doing this work. So I mean that's Of I mean looking at my other thought day was this when I first heard the story is really is Hunter Biden that not bright on climbed see that not bright that you take your laptop any you've got if if that is on there that you actually hear take take my laptop. That's what made me suspicious. I would assumed he would have raced those. emails. You know. Up publicly. And then supposedly the Hetero on the email had to do. Something about meeting for Coffee Right. And so. Is, fascinating to me that this computer tech would happen to find on this hard drive among thousands and thousands of emails. This thing headline meeting for coffee or something like that and. It has international significance. I, think we have to own up here if if if if you and I had a computer company together, right In Walk Donald Trump junior or hundred biden it said if my laptop. Not turned it into Rudy Giuliani I might have served though. All right. I would probably. As your coworker would say, Hey, Bob, get to work. Are you going? To Fix? All. Right. Well. Sweet. Get the work. This has been fun but I gotta get that somebody stuff Bob. Thank you so much for joining me this morning and let's do it again next Friday. We wanted to get an update on the Kobe thousand. Situation here in Vermont, it seems to be. On an upswing around the country. In Europe I guess IT'S A. Real crisis in that part of the world. To find out from Deputy Commissioner Tracy Dolan about what's going on here in Vermont and she's on the phone with US Good Morning Tracy. Thank you for joining us. Hi Good Morning. How are you today? I'm doing pretty well and wanted to. Check in with you just saw news release actually come out the timing is pretty amazing here ten fourteen am. Popped into my email box and says, there were department health is investigating outbreak Cohen Nineteen cases among members of Youth and adult recreational hockey and broomball teams in central Vermont. The outbreak is associated with people who practiced or played at the Central Vermont Memorial Civic Center in Montpellier earlier this month health officials said there has been no community spread of the virus beyond close contacts at this time and. Obviously makes a lot of people here right in the. Part of the. wd Ev listening area quite nervous to hear about this. In our own communities. And a what is the general sense is Vermont? Vermont getting to BS scarier on the covid Nineteen Front or or how should people be viewing this viewing this whole situation right now That's a good question. No, I wouldn't say where it's getting scary on the covid nineteen front. The slight uptick is something that we expected especially in one minute please. especially. As we see, I'm going back to school colleges and then travel that we see around the tourism. And more Vermont going out to traveling coming back. So all of that and opening up the economy we knew that we'd have a little uptick in cases and that's what we're generally having. Most outbreaks appear to be contained. End Appear not to translate into community transmission. That means that when we do have an outbreak of, let's say three or more cases that are linked, we are able to reach out to those cases, reach out to their close contacts, people to fade spent significant amount of time with a close area. And then once we do that that generally closes out the outbreak. So generally what we don't see as Ben. Two or three connections away spread into the community. So that's that's the good news on that. Again. You know we are doing a lot of testing in Vermont compared to what we were doing before. We do expect with more testing. We'll see a few more cases, but generally, we are able to contain it. We don't have anybody currently hospitalized because of thousand nine, which is good news. and. We are really encouraging people to keep doing. What you need to do. Travel is one of our key pieces that's really coming up right either people who are traveling and coming back and not quarantining traveling to red zone. It's not safe right now to be traveling to a yellow or red. Zone. And possibly bring it back to your with yourself or to your family, and then of course, people travelling in from out of state and not quarantining is a challenge, and so that's where we really got to buckle down. and. Continue all the other pieces than ask the distancing we're in for a little bit of a long haul but we've been doing pretty well so far. Vermont or any part of the state been converted from. Green to yellow. I did hear that we had a county that went to yellow but I don't have that in front of the right now we don't use that coloring system here within Vermont because we're not restricting travel with Vermont so we haven't been using that system. I see okay in and I saw this is again national reporting but I saw A. Math on one of the cable channels the other evening I. Happen to I. Mean it was a passing reference. But Had An arrow pointing toward several states with the word spike. In the air or Connected to it or whatever. One of the arrows pointing in Vermont is there any reason that that would be happening? Somebody reporting a spike. Yeah we wouldn't describe it as a spike, but we certainly got an uptick right now in October. And that's expected. I, think a spike we owing we may have had a one day spike if there was a particular outbreak, but we certainly have a small increase but are positivity rate continues to remain low. Our contact tracing came continues to be effective Our concern now is that people really think hard about the travel with vacation and different holidays coming up. You know we're still very much in a cautious mode and we encourage people to have small gatherings. You know flying members in from out of state from red area is ill advised at this time. So. Really think hard about what you're doing over the holidays and continue to do the mask wearing especially when you're out in public continue to do the six foot distancing you I think we can weather this uptick, but we just really need to stay vigilant. Just. Sort of regular daily lives Do I remember a month or so ago? Asking you whether it was advisable for folks who sort of can work from home to continue doing so still the case. I mean. We're not putting out any official recommendations on healthier should work but I would say that however you can work that minimizes contact and a large group continues to be smart. Companies are able to accommodate that I know there essential workers who can't do that? So it's not an entirely equitable situation but where do that that would seem to make sense. Evocative. Outbreak just for a moment here the Times Argus reporting in their edition of today that to positive cases have been reported at the Union Elementary School in in in the city. that. Any those at all connected in any way to the. Outbreak. Stemming from just a couple of miles away at the Civic Center. I don't know which schools have cases that are connected, but we do know that some of the school cases are connected because there were some kids or contacts related. So far we've had no. Transmission within a school between students but. So we may have a couple of cases that are in schools that happened to be those youth but so far we haven't had kids transmitting back and forth to one another. The schools really have been good around their social distancing and there are mitigating although that could change any time obviously, but so far we take success there. So yes, possibly some of the cases in schools might be related to this outbreak I. Just don't have which schools in front of me those are. Yeah. Okay. It just you see these two. DOTS one being the the hockey year and broomball arena outbreak in and one being at a school and very nearby and you kinda go victor. Is there sort of a way to connect those dots and? But we'll. We'll be exploring more. Aspects of the coronavirus situation here in Vermont and elsewhere we gotTA GO TO A. Our break for some CBS news coming here on the Dave Ramsey show and wd Tracy Dolan is my guest will return with more conversation with her in just a moment and one of the remind you before we go to the break that just after eleven o'clock, we'll be hearing governor, Phil, Scott, top state officials including. The Health Commissioner Dr Mark Levin and others talking about the states response to the Kobe nineteen crisis. Stay with us, we'll talk with crazy just a couple moments folks. Exciting things are happening in in village the, Pitcher in and Warren Store under new management upgrades and improvements are in the works maintaining the ambiance and character while breathing new energy and resources into these iconic properties we open while practicing all CDC protocols, Comfort Lunch at rock in Delhi and see for yourself with the puzzle about both businesses are hiring especially seeking fine dining room staff and sales associates were not still fun funky in friendly but better than ever open daily on Main. Street. Warren village. It's the Dave Ramsey show. wd. My guest is treated only she is the deputy commissioner of Health for the state of Vermont we're talking about the coronavirus crisis ongoing in the states response to it also. Trying to bring in some of the bigger picture of what's going on nationally and internationally with the coronavirus right now and tracy. I'M GONNA ask you may come across as a bit of a dumb question, certainly not an epidemiologist or public health expert by any means but. If, I were to say that maybe the curve of this thing is changing a little bit in the sense that I mean here we have this uptick in Vermont. But no hospitalizations. Here, we have a very famous case of just a week or two ago. Down in Washington where Somebody said. Hospital for a couple of days became home and said, don't let it dominate your life. It's not the thing in the world or something like that. Is there any sense that the severity of this disease when people get it is or the way we should gauge that changing at all? I it appears and I would have to check the data. It appears that the mortality rate from the illness is easy. But no less about. The long term impacts so is there certainly continue to be deaths every day many in the United States, we're not seeing them in Vermont but we're also seeing fewer cases and milder cases. And it continues to be that if somebody's elderly and has other health issues. Is more severe for them generally, and it's more severe for people who have. Generally but we are still seeing gets among people who would otherwise be healthy. But yes, it appears. That, some of the treatments and some of the early care is assisting in that way I would not say that the overall. Pandemic is less of a threat. We we see Uptick Quebec had one thousand new cases yesterday for example. And so we know that that will likely involve know healthcare as well. So there are. Emerging it continues to be emerging even though we've had it now around since January in the United States. And so we're still learning about other long-term effects, and so that's what I would say there. I don't have more information about severity other than you're right. Mortality Rates seems to be decreasing and hospitalization has always been low and Vermont with disown us. But But we do know that people are still becoming L. seriously ill and in some cases dying and we do know that there are some long term effects that we're just starting to learn about. and. Let's go to our listeners calling in. I. Believe it's John from watery good morning. Good Morning I just have a quick question, I'm curious why? If we do have accounting Vermont. It's showing the same kind of changes that would be classified as a yellow county in a joining states why we're not having the same thing happened here is what what's good for the goose not good for the Gander. Interesting Question John If, let's just say for instance, I don't know that which county it is. But let's imagine for moment it were Windham County. Let's say we're Brattleboro is in my Velez falls and so on. Should've vermonter traveling from Waterbury to Brattleboro for the weekend of his friends or family or something? Should they quarantine return Facie Dolan? nope that is not our policy. So Travel is free throughout Vermont does not require quarantine. Now you may choose you may choose to look at the math and make different decisions on your on, but we have not done that for the most part we have not found that travel within Vermont. Of Transmission. And so that's basically the sciences determining what we're doing and right now the science is showing us that travel in and around Vermont for the most part does not appear to be driving Um transmission or infection. And Question John. Response to my question, but I was going to go to Essex County this weekend, it turns from green to yellow and I chose to not go because of that and I just thought this Same kind of concept should work you're in Vermont. I can I can ride a little more on that. We don't have a lot of community wide transition so you might see a change in the case rate in a particular county but in most cases that's probably related to an outbreak and almost alvar outbreaks are contained, which means we know the cases we know the context in quarantine and we're managing it's out. Spreading among the community in a way that appears to be a radic pattern. So when we say that other counties go into yellow and red, often there's community transmission and those other counties outside of Vermont and in those states. But for the most part, the transmission in Vermont community transmission is fairly low and when at the county's rate goes up, it's usually related to a contained group and so for the most part doesn't pose a threat to everyone else assuming they're doing all the right things. With. Masking and distancing and washing their hasn't staying home intersex. Slightly different description of what's going on even though the numbers look relatively high. And when you're talking about relatively high numbers of Essex County, and I did not know this John. So That's interesting. A lot of times. Among the best sources of information we have here on WBZ, our listeners calling in to share what they've learned and. If if that's the case of the county than than. Wouldn't take much of a change to look like. A significant statistical difference in a tiny Essex? County mean am I getting that roughly ray? Tracing? Dolan? Yeah. You're right because of Vermont because we're. Small numbers, it can be quite a small change. So it's not hundreds of people ever in a county. It might be that it went from having seven people to having seventeen people because of a small outbreak. So it's not like you're walking around and there are hundreds walking around looking at the case counts here I've tried to find Essex. But we have fairly low case counselor as jumping out of me, but we have a map that looks each. Each county yeah. and. So so I mean I guess there are those sort of economies of scale or I'm not sure exactly what the proper as I don't think that's it now that I. Reflect on it for another second. But. But these statistics in Vermont Novel Times Look. Weird. because. Going from one to two, a doubling Oh my God one, hundred percent increase. So But John Thank you for the call I. Think you raise some interesting questions here just about How we how we are responding to this and? Interested in a broader sense that raises another question, which is sometimes. It seems as though these policies that the state is adopting. I. Understand you all are doing your best and putting a lot of thought into these but occasionally there are. There are sort of the ends of a curve in any statistical. Population or whatever. That start to fray a little bit. Saying and is that just some of the noise you have to deal with all the time? Sure can you describe a little bit more about what you're talking about the anthem the curve in the Frank? Well I guess I guess what I'm trying to get at is that sometimes There are statistical anomalies and things that that. I'm trying to come up with a good example here and I'm struggling unfortunately. there. So you come up with a policy the. For example, the thing that John Ras about it looks like. It looks like. Unequal treatment or whatever traveling out of state versus traveling one Vermont County that has registered. By some light says a yellow. And and. Then you sort of layer over that broader policy that we don't require quarantining for anyone traveling within Vermont. and then there might be this this weird instance where well it makes sense for. To, apply nineteen to somebody traveling do Yellow County in Maine or? Rhode Island or something maybe we should do that for this county Vermont but. We're not doing that because we have this broader. Paul. That's where I'm going with this it's hard to come. With a policy that fits every case. Yes that's right and you know we really. Doing this as we go along. So early on when we started putting up different kinds of regulations, you might see something on the commerce website and then on the department health would site and the tourism website but there might be small differences because we're all creating policies we're talking, but things were getting updated literally every forty eight hours and. You might see small inconsistency. So we just continue to work to make things consistent. But of course, there are always cases I mean the question came up yesterday. But what if you have to go somewhere for a legal appointment for just two hours? For a medical appointment. which is allowable if you have to go into another state and you drive there directly for short medical appointment and come back nearby versus going in for a different kind of appointment, and we're not gonNA come up with every infant and to what we're hoping is that people comply with the guidelines and use their best discretion when the guidelines don't describe exactly their situation. Yes To apply your old good old fashioned commonsense but it's So fill in the gaps that way folks and Tracy don't. Want to get back to something you touched on briefly earlier in that is. The sort of. Effort, to, balance. Continuing caution about avoiding the spread of the coronavirus and so on and and the desire and real need I think a lot of would call it. To, reopen our economy to try to get life back to as close to something a normal as possible. And Talk about what some of the. Are. I think a lot of people lose track things change over time and frequently enough that I'm trying to remember restaurants at full capacity now or is it still somewhat restricted or? And One What about lodgings and so on other kinds of businesses Vermont. Rule. Saying basically, pretty wide open at this point. Dave if you actually want to do a focused on the regulations, I'm going to have to recommend someone else I know that the public health section but the regulations come out of the commerce. Department. So I I know some of the general ones, but I don't have all the details on the regulations that would take me a little bit to research. To the back to public house, I know that we increase capacity in restaurants and lodging as well. But I I can't quote you the percentage right now. I see. Okay. Hey, we have a listener online David in Greensboro Good Morning David. Goes morning and since you're almost done. I thought I would call in about tech services for computers. Does when you were talking with that professional earlier. We didn't. Cover lie. We should go to someone's these local services and that's because. They have their own standards as to what they're going to look for. in problem solving and I was thinking of the North Branch. At forty one, St Street and computer. Barn. On What's the highway route three Oh to you have the very mafia road yep. and. Then there's Samples right across the road from them. those are all good places where you can take a computer. Or. Fixing. And they're going to give you an idea of what they're going to be looking through your computer for and what? They're going to ignore. and. Do you know? If they have any Any. Rules for their staff for instance about. Privacy on the partners. Yeah. Yeah and I don't know and I thought you might want to inquire. About. Beijing. Let's see. David, listen you living in a small town. In. The in the computer tech. Has Somebody call coming in the computer knows about? The fact that this customer is married and also having an affair with somebody else and then do computer tech is reading looking emails with between the customer and the person with whom the customers having the affair. and. Then that can be. Pretty, hot info and local rumor mill gossip Mel. I would think that computer tech would have some professional ethical obligation to keep a lid on it not say anything to anybody. Is that the case the lutely. Absolutely and that's what we want to know. So a few all these people and and give us a report on that it would be helpful all. Okay let me I'm going to I'm going to pursue this topic. I think it's actually a pretty fascinating one and we're going to have a guest or or two or three on the day Graham show sometime in the incoming days are cutting. Might take a week or more, but I'm going to try to find some computer text to talk to us about what the standards are in that in that profession. But thanks for the call I appreciate it. We're going to get back to our our conversation now with. Tracy don't only deputy commissioner of Health who've suspect there's not really want to comment on the ethics of computer technicians Tracy I. Think I will not, but I did look. At the information that I knew. On, bars and restaurants at fifty percent capacity and logical combination they may book up to one hundred percent of rooms. I see. Okay. Bars and restaurants courses of you know they they. Often working at fairly narrow margins before the coronavirus crisis hit. And now we're in the situation especially for restaurants where over the summer. People were doing lot of outdoor dining and stuff to try to mitigate the risk of. Being indoors in a closed environment. Outdoor dining is getting a little less friendly now six getting colder. and. And so Once again, we have this sort of balancing act between the. Risks of the coronavirus and the desire to keep our restaurant industry. Some kind of. Reasonable shape how do you strike that? Yeah, it's it's a tough one. There's no doubt about this. This has been a hit on the economy all over the country months no different I know a lot of restaurants has voted to more take out and some have been able to. Gain, some customers and some business that way. But obviously, it continues to be a challenge. But our first priority has to be people's health and we will continue to look at the science look at our health status and look at ways that we can open up but we have to keep an eye on those numbers. We're seeing and other states and all across the country we're not out of the woods and in some cases you know they're going in the wrong direction. So we really have to be aware especially coming into flu season we don't want a double. Double pandemic of flu and. Covert happening at the same time so we have to be very careful and so as a public health professional. Our first job is to look at, the Public House first. And? Believe me I'm glad I am very glad I. Think most people are that there are folks like you are looking at the public health I because obviously, there are other considerations out there sort of competing for our attention and. It's great to have people saying, well, we have these health concerns over here. It'd be better pay attention and that's a that's a good thing. I think we have another listener checking in weight from Prince online owning weighed like the morning Dave Good Morning Dylan. So yeah I don't know if it's the shorter days or the leaves are falling or the elections coming, but it certainly seems like the walls are closing. Lately. So sure cabin fever or what I know, and we had snow on the ground yet. We usually March right? That's. Going to be a long winter but. We're gonNA winners and this is helpful for us. We're over here again at northeast slopes and we have some. Pretty critical meeting tomorrow on on what we're going to do this this winter. So this fast tracks the question for a little bit. Outdoor events or outdoor venues is that still at one hundred and fifty capacity per event. Yes I'm reading it right here at one hundred and fifty outdoors. Yeah. Okay. What if you were able to separate certain groups in in any particular way? Does that does that? Negate data at all. You know I don't see a lot of wiggle room right now this that could change, and of course, the ski industry might be a little bit different because of the nature of that business I think there's guidance being developed right now to assist industry so I can't speak to that. But right now the is one hundred fifty people outdoors. You see you know for our little volunteer ski area. One, hundred fifty would be a darn good day when sunny Sunday afternoon one, hundred and fifty people showing up at a chemo or so you know when cover the electric bill. Well, just to be clear, that's around restaurants catering food service in bars. So I don't know that we will apply that kind of standard to something like people skiing, Mountain. Might be very different and so there's going to be coming out about that but. If, you have a, you have a huge cross country ski area and everybody's out on their own and they're separated. This is really just to be clear around bars restaurant catering, and there were small area. We do have lift lines where people will be congregating in three different spots two or three different sounds like a more thorough discussion is needed on this industry in the Kobe's crisis not wanting to coming weeks also put that on my list. We'll be looking we're about out of time though I gotta get. Tracy Dolan. Thank you for the call waiting interesting question Tracy Dolan, thank you so much for joining me this morning conversation and have a good weekend. Great weekend get out. The Deputy Health Commissioner for today's edition of the day Graham show ever good weekend everybody.

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The Damascus Road and Call Me American

The Dave Gram Show on WDEV

1:31:47 hr | 2 years ago

The Damascus Road and Call Me American

"The. Radio vermont. It's the Dave Graham show on WD. It's your show about the people places and the issues that matter the most to you now, here's your host, Dave Graham. Good morning everybody filling in for Dave Graham, today, I'm Lee Patel here on the stations of radio Vermont, and we got a what I believe is a pretty good show for us today on the way in the next hour. We'll talk with the talk media news service to find out the latest in Washington and the environs of our nation's capital. Also food expert, Don Paul is going to give us a few minutes on picnicking. And I know it's a little chilly out there to fill your basket and head out into the park. But I suppose some of you are sick enough of winter already to go out and give it a try now spend a few light moments with Don Paul a food experts talk about picnicking and Addie nor if din is a man who was born in Somalia live. Through some of the hottest moments. He some of the things that he has seen in Somalia before he came to the United States. Right. He was there during the American military operations that were there, and he has written a book called call me American a memoir Abdeel, nor if din will join us coming up in the next hour here on WD and our host Dave Graham has posted a message on social media, and we're very happy, not happy. Happy able to make the message into share the information with you, Dave has recovering from pneumonia. So it's going to be a little while before he's coming back around, but we're certainly hoping for a a speedy recovery and a healthy return for Dave. But in the meantime, number of people are going to step up and look to fill his shoes here over the course of the next few days. John Walters will be along for the state house show this coming Friday in Montana. Failure. And we'll give you other updates as as things come along. But in the meantime, you you have me today and my first guest here for the hour is a teacher at Middlebury college. He's also a poet of biographer historian and novelist and from Middlebury college Jay parini joining us on the Dave Graham show today. Jay, good morning. And welcome to the WD airwaves say thank you Liam show. I really am. And so the new novel is out. And so there are a couple of authors and writers who have done a bang-up job in in historical fiction. The first name that comes to mind for me is Michael Shara who wrote some great books of through using the the civil war as historical context, and you know, kinda take into the generals and the the the big players in in the civil war era. And kind of filling out their characters a little bit and and turning them into novels in doing great job with that your your material is is probably even more fuller and a lot further back in time as you're doing a lot of work in the New Testament era in your latest book is the Damascus road a novel of Saint Paul. That's right. Yeah. I really dug deep into history for this web. But your own background dough kind of lead you to this sort of material. Anyway, because you're the the son of a preacher father was a Baptist preacher. I grew up in Scranton, Pennsylvania just down the street from Joe Biden. And fact, my mother was Joe Biden's babysitter. So that's a little bizarre fact toyed, and and so I went often became a professor, you know, I left Scranton Pennsylvania for a while. Then I went spent seven years at. University of Saint Andrews in Scotland where for one thing I was doing there was studying Greek and a lot of theology thought you were going to say you're studying golf, well, I played a little golf there. And of course, how could you not? It's the home of golf, but and I lived right near the the golf the old course, and I used to walk by every single day. But no, I wasn't really there to play off their study, and did my PHD there and an an and bachelor's degree in fact, and so and I started studying the bible for one thing, but my my page in English literature, and I've taught a Dartmouth and Middlebury for my whole career now, which is I hate to say it about forty three or four years. So I've been doing this for a while. But in the Meanwhile, I was been been writing poems been writing novels. I wrote a I think in some ways when my best known biographies is the life of Robert frost. Great for montor. I came out twenty years ago and still think it's it's like, it's. Twelve edition, and but I've been reading historical novels going back to nineteen ninety when I wrote the last station, which is a novel about the last days in the life of the great Russian author, Leo Tolstoy, and we made that into a movie that got several kademi award nominations and Golden Globes and things so start starring Helen Mirren and Christopher Plummer. So been working in this bag graphical vein, but was quite as switch to write about a biblical figure. Because frankly, I'd never written about a biblical figure in fiction before I've written a lot of by graphical novels mostly about cultural figures likely Tolstoy, so but I've been writing about Christianity in the last ten years quite a lot. I wrote a life of Jesus in two thousand thirteen call Jesus the human face of God. And then about two or three years ago. I published a book of essays on the origins of Christianity, which contains a an opening chapter my own. Journey faith journey from being a an evangelical Baptist to being what I am now, which is a progressive Christian. And and a member of the pistol church here in Middlebury Vermont for many many many decades. And so but going back to Paul I always thought that Paul was the central figure apart from Jesus, of course in Christianity. I mean in some ways that would be no Christian church were not for Paul because Paul was the guy went out on his missionary journeys, and he had the incredibly smart idea of bringing Christianity to the gentiles. And if he hadn't done that and succeeded as well as he did it that I think Christianity would have been restricted to a small Jewish sect in Jerusalem headed by James, the brother of Jesus and probably Peter who was one of Jesus disciples. But I suspect that that. Have withered on the vine, and so to speak and Cepal was this huge figure active, man, brilliant, man, probably crazy man, having visions, and and also, you know, he wrote the earliest scriptures in the bible, the letters of Paul are way far and away the earliest Christian writings that we have they way proceed the gospels Paul's letters, Paul was a contemporary of Jesus they were pretty much the same age and Paul wrote these letters soon after the crucifixion, and so at least the offensive letters most Christian theologians would say that there's really six or seven authentic letters by Paul and a bunch of letters letters. That are not really Paul's their school of Paul some of them such as a first and second Timothy probably written very late in the first century during let me get in here for a couple of seconds. Because you've given me a lot of information. I gave you much. I could talk about Paul for thousand years here. We'll get back to that. I wanted to interrupt you about ten times already it. First of all the at Middlebury college talk about what classes you're you're teaching right now. Well, you know, I always been chair of the creative writing program for I don't know thirty five thirty forty years. So and Dartmouth I was chairman of the creative writing program. So I thought creative writing as my core teaching, but I always teach a big lecture course, which I'm doing right now on people like Robert frost and TESL ES. It's called a modern poetry. And then I teach a course called poetry and spirituality from the book of psalms to marry Oliver. And that's a regular course I teach as well. So that's the range of my teaching and. This is Jay pre by the way for audience out there. You are invited to join us via have questions for J at eight. Oh, two two four four one seven seven seven two four four one seven seven seven and toll free at one eight seven seven to nine one eight two five five and the movie starring Helen Mirren a- about the final days of Tolstoy. What what was the title of the movie, the movie was called the last station and came out in two thousand ten and that was great fun. I actually wrote the original screenplay with the old actor Anthony Quinn Zorba the Greek. So we spent ten Tony I spent ten years writing that script, and I do and I do novel lot of skits. Now, I'm actually in the midst of four different movies, and I'm working on including a three year television version of my life of Saint Paul which I'm doing with with the people in England who made the crown so I'm working on that as well. So I have lots of irons in the fire things. I'm working on. And so that would be broadcast on what is one of our. Yeah. Be something. Like nets licks. It would come out of actually. Okay. And and for an let me just share a story with you as to why this this book got onto my radar. I'm curious about that. I grew up as a Catholic. My my mom made me go to church on Sunday mornings. They used to lie in bed and pretend I was asleep and hope that the time would elapse it at my parents would sleep in and I wouldn't have to go. And if they got up, I would I would have to go, but otherwise I would just lie there, and wait and hope I wouldn't have to go. Yeah. But every Sunday, I went into Sunday school, and the whole thing and first communion and confirmation. So when you get confirmed, you you choose a name of a Saint to to be your confirmation name. And there was a book with all these different saints listed in there and some. Of the things that they might have done over the course of their lives to merit sainthood, and I came upon Paul and as a as a fourteen or fifteen year old boy was far more interested in pleasures of the flesh than anything else. I was drawn to Paul because in the first half of his life. He he wasn't a Christian. But then he came on later on in life to become a fierce advocate for for the Christian faith. And I thought well, you know, what I'm not really on board with this whole trip right now. So I think Paul kind of represents where I where I was now prior to that. He was of course, as he as he writes, the Pharisee of faira sees so it wasn't like he was a man of faith prior to that. He wasn't some pagan running around like like, I had in mind. Yeah. But when I when I told the the father about the my choice of Paul his reply was why did you choose that name, and I was such a coward. I didn't have the guts to tell him. So I said I. I liked the name. Yes, I'm sure he didn't believe it. And I think that ultimately God has had the last laugh at me on to slide things by them. You know, it's called my books called the Damascus road. And it's because it's about the transformation of fall from from this kind of fanatical Jewish activist Pharisee as you just said and into the leader of the way of Jesus is early grassroots movement largely led by Phoebe on a bunch of women. The church was very matriarchal in those days. Phoebe Lydia Priska. These were women who were really running the church. So it's an awful lot of baloney to think that women shouldn't be priest women were the first pope, essentially, and I think that anyone who reads the Damascus road. My novel will have a very very different view of what it was like on the ground for the early. Christians trying to invent Christian theology on the fly trying to trying to under. Stand who has this man Jesus. And what did is who's vixen really mean? What does it mean to really follow the way of Jesus? So I I was trying in this novel to really try to imagine what it was like for people like Paul and Luke who's the second narrator of the story and Saint Timothy and so many of the other great figures of early Christianity now, and when you were talking about Paul and and his decision to go out and preach to the gentiles. You you talk about it. And you kind of imply that it was Paul's decision to do that. And I'll give all give you that. But you know, those many of those elements of what Paul did were were foretold through some of the prophets of the Old Testament. That eventually the word would go out to the gentiles. I get that. I mean in Paul knew this Paul was such a scholar of the Hebrew scriptures. And so Paul was very early. I said he wrote the first. Christian scriptures. And the fact that he was such a biblical scholar and knew the Old Testament, the Hebrew scriptures meant that he was able to see Jesus in the pattern of Old Testament, the Allah, Judy and so much and the call of sort of for shadowing of a messiah you see, and and you and Paul originated in Tarsus, which as you pointed out was a a fantastic crossroads of of culture, economy business, and trade and all sorts of ideas were coming through that area as well and through his own life. He had influences in the Hebrew realm in the Greek realm, and the Roman realm, and those were three cultures that had a lot of history and stored in them, and they great deal of. Complex thought in in their own faiths. Yeah. I mean, I think it's what really led me to the book was the realization that Paul being born in Tarsus, which was a Greek speaking part of Asia, Minor would have been trained and tutored and the great great teachers that just Plato and then in reading I was reading Plato for class. I was teaching and I kept coming across all of these phrases, which I remembered from the letters of Paul, and I thought to myself my word Paul is quoting Plato, and then I realized he was quoting Sophocles, and he was clothing escalates. And he was quoting many other Greek poets even allusions to Homer, they're just buried in there. But their common phrases that anybody who spoke Greek in those days would have recognized this quotations from the Greek. So here's the great Christians flash. Hebrew, scholar Paul profit pock apostle who's totally. William with Plato and Greek philosophy and remember Plato brought us the idea of eternal life life after death the resurrection of the body the idea of the eternal soul in many ways can be traced back to Plato the Jews. Remember did not believe in resurrection of the body or life after death. So Paul is getting a lot of this stuff, especially especially the idea about the division between the body and the soul from Plato. It's so so Christianity is profoundly indebted to Greek philosophy. And would you say Paul is plagiarizing or simply influenced by by these philosophers as writing, you know, there was no sense of plagiarism in those days, you were free to copy anything you wanted. And it's not plagiarizing. He's just you know, influence profoundly by Plato and Greek philosophy and just as he's endlessly quoting the Hebrew scriptures without citation he alludes to the Hebrew scriptures. Again. And again, he didn't do footnote he wasn't a college student. He was a prophet. And do you think that Plato in some respects was kind of a prophet as well, given given how much of what he taught is mirrored today in in the New Testament, you know, many of the medieval Catholic, especially if he allegience Christian theologians put Plato as one of the first Christians, though, he lived long before crisis born because so many of his ideas harmonize with Christian ideas, I think Jesus himself was influence as I say in my book, my biography of Jesus Jesus was born in in a part of Galilee. Whether a lot of a lot of influence coming in on the silk road from the west came all the ideas of Plato from the east came all of the ideas such as karma of oriental philosophy from India and China so Christianity is a splendid mix of both western and eastern insight the Damascus road novel of Saint Paul handy teacher at middle. Berry. College is our guest today and eight oh, two two four four one seven seven seven eight seven seven to nine one talked the number to join us Carol from south Burlington, you're on with Jay parini on the Dave Graham show. Does south Duxbury. I'm sorry. My my handwriting is bad. Well, if someone there we're okay, I just want to say, I'm in the car listening to this broadcast. And I'm Jay are you there right here? Yep. I am blown away by what you shared about your background. And I you know, I am a poet of a writer Gardner a farmer. Also, the daughter of a minister, and it was just I've known your name and a little bit of your work. But I had no idea of the scope and the breadth of it. But what I I want to say I don't wanna take up too much time. I have all the letters that my mother and father wrote back and forth to each other. Between nineteen thirty nine and nineteen forty one. My mother is a hundred and four years old. And unfortunately, she is starting to forget a lot of things, but I have wanted to put the parts of these letters together to create. Either. Well, I was thinking of a historic novel. But as you spoke about the screenplays or the the films that you're working on for years for many years. I felt it would make an an incredibly fascinating film placed, you know, in those years of thirty nine forty one. I would love to talk with you more at some point. I would love to give you my phone number for eight. Oh, two. We'll listen to me. And I think the best thing is just send me an Email parini, Middlebury dot EDU that reaches may every time. I'll do that. I'll do that. I don't need to take more of your time. But I just find it very fascinating. Thank you so much. Sure. Thank you for airing. I will send an Email. Thank you, girl. Thanks for the call in south docks berry in gin. You are invited at two four four one seven seven seven eight seven seven to nine one talk. Jay, one of the benefits of being a Stoorikhel novelist is at least you don't have to come up with the plot. That's already been taken care of you know, and a half to confess one of the appeals for me of historical novel is like with Saint Paul. I mean, how do you get beat that? It's like one of the greatest stories of western civilization, the founding of Christianity and the plot is a given. And so you just have to worry on character development. And I've I have, unfortunately, we lied on a lot of historical true stories because I love the fact that the plot is already therefore you and found out you got me. Well, but you know, with the stories that are told some of them are. So so fantastic that feel like only God could put them together because nobody would believe it. Otherwise, we know you read the book of acts. The twenty seventh chapter the book of acts is the is the famous story of the shipwreck of Paul and Luke on their way to Italy. And they're shipwrecked on Malta. Well, that's such. It's like reading a modern thriller it so so much fun. So I had a great time working with that material. And and of course, the big key point that you brought out in the I guess the pivotal moment of Paul's life was as he was departing from Jerusalem. And and sent with the mission of going to Damascus to round up the followers of the way, and he and with the intent on taking them back to Jerusalem and making them suffer. And it was a long that way that that God and Jesus confronted him. And that's that's quite a challenge to put that into words to deliver to people the magnitude of such a confrontation. Well, what would it be like to be going along on? The road and suddenly have God speaking to you. I mean, it must have been a profound experience. And you know, I tried to imagine that in different ways in the novel because the truth is Paul tells it a couple of times in his letters and Luke tells the story in acts and every time we're told the story it's a little bit different. So I had fun playing with this idea that you know, how does one even remember or magic or talk about such an experience. Well, ten squire is always told us here at the stations of radio. Vermont don't let the facts get a away of good story. You never let that happen. I think Paul must've enjoyed every time we'd walk into a church there. No churches in those days, which is gatherings. But when you walk into a gathering he'd tell the story of the road to the Mescus, and I suspect every time he told that it was a little different. We're were there logical inconsistencies or were there. Just certain facts added in or left out during his recanting of the story. Well, I think you know, you know, exactly what. Was going on was he walking was the alone. Do you have a bunch of people with him was the horseback with the donkey did he actually the Jesus actually phys appear to him that here voice, just whether angels in the sky. I mean, all these things are plausible. So, you know, and you get the impression that you know, Paul was wonderful expand her on on facts. So I think it's just he's a great storyteller and great storytellers, again, take the essential truth and the amplify it. And they figure out better ways of telling it, they might suddenly remember details forgotten the first time, or you know, whatever I mean, it's not like, you're lying, but you're actually enhancing from times the a true story. And as you point out, your book is told through the points of view of of two men, Paul is one of them in in first person. And then Luke who later a gospel and may have done a lot of Paul's writings as he traveled. With him through their through their mission work over the course of their lives. Remember, Paul Luke growth, obviously the gospel. According to Luke, but he also wrote the book of acts. We know that for a fact, and he says he was on the road with Paul on these missionary journeys. So it's really I an he was looked physician. He was very level headed I somehow imagined as in writing this novel that I was reading Sherlock Holmes novel. And I I saw Paul as Sherlock Holmes Benedict Cumberbatch a little bit. Crazy visionary insanely intelligent intuitive. And I see Luke is Dr Watson kinda practical saying, wait a minute. Let's calm down here, buddy. So that's the sensually their relationship. So. Yeah. So it's like a buddy film. It is it's on the road with two guys with we've got a we've we've got you know, it's a one one review or compared to on the road with Jack Carro that rather startled me. But yeah, it's an on. It's a road novel. The Damascus road novel of Saint Paul a fascinating take on the man who went on the mission to deliver the gospel to the area beyond Jerusalem, quite a relationship between. Paul and n Bafokeng in Jerusalem. And of course, it's a fascinating story. Because after he he spent a long time out in the middle of not in the middle of nowhere. I mean everywhere somewhere, but some several years in Arabia several years back in his hometown before he came back to Jerusalem. So there was a longtime that pass before the fact that he actually started between the time of his. Conversion on the Damascus road. And when he actually started going out and preaching the word to everybody. There's a long time there in where he apparently had to learn a lot of things after his blinding and on the road to Damascus. He was injured in in the met Damascus for a few days, and then he had to escape over the city wall in a basket. And then he just says in his one of his letters. I went off into the desert for three years. Well, where did he go? What was he doing part of the fun of being a novelist is you can then imagine what he must've been doing? And I am Sumi went into the Jordanian. What's now, the Jordanian desert, and and probably huddled with some of the of the monks in the desert there, the ascetic groups such as the scenes, and and there's some there's been a lot of suggestions that he preached at one point in Petra, which is that amazing city of rose stone in the Damascus desert and. Part of my research for this book was to try and traveled all the places where Paul walked so actually went in a walked into the ancient city of Petra in the after walking through the Jordanian desert in the Wadi. There Wadi is like means valley. And so it's really quite it was quite a moving experience to walk in the Jordanian desert into walk into Petra. And to imagine Paul there preaching, and I also win went along the Dead Sea am visited the drove along below the ks in kube Ron with the Dead Sea scrolls were discovered in the early nineteen fifties in eleven different caves there. So of course, I visited Jerusalem several times walked out into the countryside. We're Paul preached and one of my last journeys was to Asia Minor where I traveled to to what's now Turkey, and you know, it really felt like I was lucky to get into Turkey. And and get out of Turkey, given the trouble over there. But I wanted to see where Paul preached in the stadiums. And where he went from village to village just to walk in that countryside by the sea. And of course, I went down to Greece where Paul preached in Athens, Macedonia, and of course, Rome. So I I did visit all the Paul cites personally and take notes and try to absorb the atmosphere of these places and truly amazing. If you think about back in the day, no public address system. No loudspeakers, and yet big crowds able to to hear probably a man with a booming voice as well. Yeah. Imagine I stood in one of these ancient amphitheatres over near episode's, and I tried to speak. I was there. I wondered in. I was alone in there. And I started just stood on the stage and started tried to talk imagine being Paul and speaking to the crowd. You must have had. He must have been a most extraordinary preacher. And that must have been quite an experience that he had. On the Damascus road because of the prices that he paid over the course of his rest of his life in delivering that message. He writes, I five times I received forty stripes minus one which was the the standard punishment for for beating. And then three times beaten with rods. He was stoned once and left for dead three times shipwrecked and a night and day. I have been in the deep, which I I guess to mean he was he was rendered unconscious for for over a night at a time. But and through it all that there was nothing that deterred him from from delivering that message in. So it's quite a portrait you have to paint from somebody who's who's belief was so steadfast last summer, I was in England talking to a Bishop of the church of England. And he said, yeah, he said just think about it wherever Paul went. He was either arrested. Stoned imprisoned or a riot broke out. He said the bishops said to me, and you know, wherever I go somebody offers me a Cup of tea. This is the contrast. Maybe maybe Christians should be causing a riot wherever they go. Well, and they say Noah tried to get the message out for a hundred twenty years, nobody came along to join him either. So it can be a lonely occupation. I'll bet. A couple of the more intriguing parts of where you fill in the blanks where the departure of John Mark who traveled with Paul for for a stretch of time and then abruptly departed in in the book of acts they touch on it briefly. But don't say a lot about why. And and you lay out some interesting ideas for what might have happened to lead to their departure where you know, Bishop John Shelby Spong has a book about Paul where he sees. Yes. At the sword in his flesh might have been his feelings of homo erotic feelings, and I do think that if you read through the letters of Paul and read about Paul is certainly possible that he had conflicted sexual feelings that seems to me just obvious and something a little outrageous, very, fundamental of Christians. But it seems to me rather obvious. And and so what happened with young John Mark John Mark with sort of in nineteen year old boy track. Bling with Paul and Barnabas through Cyprus, and whatever happened, John Mark said to hell with this. I'm getting away from you and away from you guys goodbye and departed rather abruptly back to Jerusalem. Well, whatever happened. You know, I in my novel. I say, well, maybe he felt that Paul was being a little bit too affectionate with him. I mean, I'm not suggesting anywhere in the novel. The Paul was committing homosexual acts. That's just not what I'm suggesting. But I'm suggesting that he might have been a very physical guy. Maybe would you know hug John Mark McKay on the forehead and probably who knows he would have been a little bit. Like by like, Joe Biden getting people space all the time. I wouldn't I I think that's probably what's going on here. And whatever he did John Mark fled in panic. So that was fun to try and imagine you're trying to what you're doing. Really the Bible's just a little thin outline of what happened. And so we have to fill in the blanks again. And again, and again, and that's the work of historical fiction to fill in these marvelous blanks. Although I I wonder about that because later on in the book of acts of Barnabus attempts to bring John Mark back into the fold and Paul absolutely refuses to to deal with that. According to what we read. Yeah. So, you know, maybe if he must have had some very bad feelings about whatever went down in Cyprus. And you know, who knows John Mark would have been on board with it. Either Barnabus was always the kind of guy trying to say oh, come on. Why can't you just get along? That's far this is role in the in the bible and the other aspect of sort of homo erotic subtext was the circumcision of Timothy. Yes. Well, you know, you know, would it says in the book of acts in in in the Greek writing, essentially when you read the book of action Greek essentially Timothy asks Paul if he will be his Mojo. That's Hebrew word which is used here to say suggest that you know, you you'll perform. The ritual act of circumstance, and that involves actually, you know, cutting off the tip of the person's paint us. And then the rabbi will put his mouth on the bleeding penis and hold it in his mouth until the bleeding stops. And so I couldn't resist finding that rather funded describe. So let's just say it's a fun part of my novel that I hope that your readers won't take offense to it might even enjoy and and the shipwreck and some of the things that happened on the shipwreck, you view, instead of there's the part where the the snake bites Paul, and then you kind of reduce he you kinda reduce that to say that maybe not what was described in in the book was exactly what happened. Well, I'm thinking that a lot of these crazy things that go on might have two different viewpoints as everything does. Now, the people on Malta. I thought that Paul must be God. Because he he cursed. The snake in the snake drop dead and fell off the stick. Well, it's possible that that was already a dead snake? So I have two different versions in the novel. I leave it to the reader to decide whether the snake was alive or dead. Well, I I I understand that, you know, even if you run a car a dead snake? There's enough there can be enough. Venom loaded up in their fans that if you step on their foot, you can still get poisoned. That's you know, you don't want wanna hang around with poisonous fiber. No matter what. Jay parini, the Middlebury college teacher in author of the Damascus road novel of Saint Paul is joining us here on the stations of radio Vermont so help me earlier in the hour. Jay, you said that there were only a only about seven biblical skull modern contemporary, biblical scholars say that only about seven of the what thirteen letters that Paul has written in the New Testament where rationally written by Paul how how can anybody be sure that? Well, okay. Right. You've got one point people were fourteen letters. If you look at the King James translation in the Scofield edition. They even listed Hebrews. It was one point thought to be by Paul, but you know, in the last fifty sixty years there's been a tremendous advance in in research on biblical languages, and especially Greek and historian and archaeology. And so we look at the letters of Paul, and you can see that six or seven of the letters are clearly written in what we know of as Paul style. You know, those letters would be things like I fisa loans, but not second Thesselonians the book of Romans clearly Paul relations is really Paul. First and Second Corinthians are really palled. The letter defy Liman is really Paul, but you get into very tricky territory with Fijian's first and second Timothy the style in Greek changes radically, if you're used to reading say English, literature, I teach sometimes modern fiction you reading novel by him. Anyway, let's call that Paul. And then you read a novel by William Faulkner. Well, nobody in their right mind is going to is going to confuse the two the style is just dramatic and Paul Greek style is very idiocy and credit. His vocabulary is choice of words, very distinctive. He makes allusions the things that we know happened during his lifetime. This is not an as customs change, politics, change, the culture shifts. And so we see things in the non in the letters that we think are not Paul's letters that could not have been. Paul could not have known. So there's historical context. There's there's actual style. And then consistencies the all Aji, and then we even have now earlier Mandy earliest manuscripts of the letters of Paul sometimes contain things that throw quest to run the question some of the some of the NFL letters. So I would say that almost any seminary you went to these days Christian seminary where catholic-protestant except in the most fundamentalist, but even there I mean, I was recently. It's speaking with the president of Baylor University school of theology Baptist seminary in in in Texas. And even he agreed with me said, you know, most scholars now take it for granted that there are the six or seven offensive letters that the rest are much later and school of fall. And so would that mean that he had well, Luke? By site to do some of the the writing along the way are they ghost-written or somebody who took his words, and then re crafted the general message in their own language. You know, Paul may have written these things out roughly by hand. And then he had a scribe with him who copied them and re copied them and into put him into nice form and sent them off. He may have sometimes dictated bits and pieces. Both both those seem to be we do we do know in one of the letters Paul said here, I'm signing this in my own hand forgive me for my huge handwriting. So we know that Paul was, you know, Caisley writing these in by hand himself, but he certainly it would have been typical to have a slave or scribe who would would take your dictation and one of the fascinating. Events that happened along the way was at lice dro- where he apparently according to the book of acts help day man who could not walk walk, and then not only was the miracle itself fascinating. But the response by the people who lived in the area was also not what he expected they were taking for Greek gods, and they were lifted up on the shoulders of the people and carried into the temple of Zeus in life, stra and feted as gods. And and when when finally, you know, it it was revealed that they were not gods. Paul is taken to the edge of the city, and stoned so is sort of same thing happened when he was on the island of Malta. So Paul often was taken for God, the PLO obviously had a marvelous healing powers. And so I think that. Fun to imagine what he was really like. And what was going on in his head as these things were happening? Jay parini, the author of the Damascus road novel of Saint Paul a fascinating read that is out on in bookstores now or is released earlier this month. Jay, thank you so much for giving us some time here on the day Graham show. I am indebted for your time. Thank you, sir. Thank you leave for inviting me and for reading my book. Thank you. You're listening to WD FM and AM leak attell filling in on the Dave Graham show on this Tuesday morning. We'll check in with our Washington correspondents after the latest in world and national news here on the friendly pioneer. Giant tensile? So successful last year. We're doing it. Again. Fifty to seventy five percent off last season's summer and winter clothing Saturday and Sunday, April twenty seven and twenty eight from nine to six party dresses from Alana Catan, I'll last Tango and Liotta sportswear from chools Jag. Towed? Royal Robbins, Hobo bags and jewelry. Come for lunch on the deck and treat yourself to some great stuff at ridiculous crisis worth the trip to the beautiful mad river valley almost world-famous Warren store, fun, hunky and friendly. The Dave Ramsey show on WD FM and AM. Here's day. Lee tell filling in for the Dave Graham host here on WD FM and AM coming up later this hour Abdeel nor if din with a fascinating book called call me American a memoir, a very compelling tale about growing up in Mogadishu during the a lot of folks out there may have seen Black Hawk Down. When somebody asked me what I might know about some Malia. I guess I would summit up in about three words. I mean Black Hawk Down. If you want to count that as one word, then pirates, and and starvation, I guess is all I know about Somalia, but that's the more recent history. Well, he grew up through all that. And and then through the through an amazing stroke of luck Abdeel one entrance to the United States in the annual visa lottery. And then has since landed in lewiston, Maine where there is a significant Somali community, and he is and he's joining us coming up here in about fifteen minutes with with fascinating short story that he's going to share with us. All right. Tom squad. Terry is joining us right now from the talk media news service, Tom good morning. Good morning and happy Tuesday happy Tuesday. Now, are you at the Pentagon correspondent is at right? That's correct. So what's going on in the Pentagon today? Well, one of the things we're doing they're they're doing it any God is watching what's happening in Venezuela know, if you saw the news reports the smarting, but the opposition leader Guajardo who is recognized by the United States and others as legitimate as the president of his Waylon has essentially announce the military coup that is underway. There's been some clashes between troops supporting him and troops supporting the president Madora. And so this now takes the crisis event is way clearly a new level, you sort of started cou you have to either finish or it'd be finished. So the Pentagon is watching this very carefully, of course, for the obvious reasons. Now, Tom lemme ask you couple of questions because whenever there's unrest or, you know, the potential of a change in government somewhere at an unexpected time. I always wonder if the CIA is involved in it because we've been meddling in places. Like, we all we got the government in Iran overturned in nineteen fifty three. And chilly, you know, a lot of places around the world. So is there intelligence community playing a role in the undermining of Maduro in Venezuela? That question because. I don't cover the intelligence community. I don't think that it's necessarily an odd thing to suspect on the Trump administration doesn't want Madero in there that being said, and there's been support given to Widodo in many ways possible both diplomatic support as well as tending aid to the borders. So he could distribute to the people Venezuela. The situation around the door is that he has a private protecting force from Cuba and mercenaries from Russia. So he has these buffers between himself and Venezuela military in the case of everything happening because he wants to be cautious and careful about a possible coup. Now, I don't regard the CIA or any other intelligence agencies helping the opposition. I I would leave that the speculation on your part. Good. I'm okay at speculating. I never believe what I read. And so also, you know, the notion that perhaps some of the sun rest in in South America, and Central American countries is designed by maybe globalist organizations that want to push a lot of you know, refugees and dissidents up north to through Mexico the United States, I don't know about that. I mean, the problems of our problems caused by the economy that are caused by the policies of both as before Madurai. Now, you know Venezuela has a lot of oil, and they have the basis for strong Konami and mismanagement of that economy by Venezuela leaders, not from outside interest has caused the economic calamity which is in country. And so the unrest that could come could be stirred up from the outside. But nevertheless, the roots of that unrest are homegrown Venezuela in that the population is suffering. They don't get food. They don't get medicine. They don't have jobs. And there's no reason for that based on the economic potential that country. I I agree Tom, you know, the oil provides a a vast economic engine that you could think could could go a long ways toward keeping a healthy economy. What are they spending all that oil money on well self and grandma's -ment is one thing itself protection at luxury places. But also, the oil is being pumped to our should be just fallen off because of incompetency along the way as as well as as as well as greed, so you know, it's not a good combination. And is the United States providing a little bit of economic leverage through how they are dealing with Venezuelan oil. Well, they have sanctions on a lot of people who are involved in Venezuela government and businesses as one way to put economic pressure on the Madero government. We don't use oil here. You know, US doesn't by Venezuela oil and the oil for menswear has not been notable in the market, which of course, that means you take Iran and oil off the market. It's a great opportunity for Venezuela to fill that gap. If they had their act together. Tom scotteri talk media news service. And of course, the United States is the biggest oil producer and a planet right now. So if they could put sanctions on Ronnie and oil in Venezuelan oil, it might be better for our own producers. I write that will hurt them. That's for sure. What else going on in Washington today? Well, yesterday tape surfaced of the leader of ISIS who hadn't been seen for five years. At early indications are it's legitimate tape. Isn't it Baghdadi name and that answers the question whether he's dead or alive or wounded he seems to be alive and well in that Tapie praises the attack and terrorist attack in Sri Lanka, which I says claims credit for supporting help organizing he acknowledges that the defeat of the land caliphate by the US led coalition, but you know, his his surfacing in video is critical point for where they're returning to roots in a way of being a virtual terroristic network where they now become almost like the provider of resources in strategy to local militar thought. Sorry, local terrorist groups that want to carry out activities, but don't quite have the knowledge and skill to do it. When now I this is good as serve in one way as the the headmaster for these students. So they're exporting logistics and expertise and terrorism exactly and doing it through the internet communicating rallying troops rallying drawing in new supporters. They I was at a conference yesterday investigates. Dif- it was about the future of warfare different areas of one of them was about the future of ISIS and how I says really mastered to use the internet beyond what others have and have has really used a become a potent weapon in its in its terrorist activities. Well, one thing is to use the internet in the other the other would be to use the internet without being detected. And I think being able to fly under the radar in the internet world requires specific expertise, and they probably pretty good at subterfuge online as well. They are they do both. They lately broadcast something in a way to let the world know, they're still there. And then there's the subterfuge excuse me as you point out in the flying under the radar where they can communicate the in their eyes with stealth. And without being observed Tom got time for one more. If you've got it. Okay. That's it tomorrow. I talked to later in the week, Tom, Scott Teri, Washington. Correspondent with talk me to new service here on the stations of radio, Vermont WD, EV FM and AM here on the Dave Graham show on the friendly pioneer. And we're going to take a very short break here in return with a food experts time to go picnicking believe it or not we got him. Well, let's get right to it. Then Don Paul is a food expert and Don welcome to the Dave Graham show. I'm Lee tell filling in for Dave today, but you're on the WD airwaves. Good morning. Good boarding that takes forever me on. Picnics. You can't you can't get more simple in Joyce than picnics. Everybody's been eating inside. It's been a very long winter around here. So folks are ready to start doing things outdoors. Even know it's another clammy week here in the green mountains. But we think things will come around eventually. And so eating outside talk to me about why about picnic season some of the benefits of it. You know, it's really a time to get out. You know inside mentioned it it's that old fashioned thing that people too, but sometimes getting gearing up to go out for a picnic to get outside for that fresh air and kinda kicks season off now, but it's time to really maybe put technology off to the side have kids or yourself to go out just kinda experience nature a little bit. And that could be as of course, the city park or could be even in your backyard. So it doesn't have to be a labora- thing that we do we must pack this and this and that. But keep it simple. And it kinda brings you brings you joy. I think well bringing in of course, packing and taking along the picnic. What are the what are the big items that people need to bring with them? Really? And keep it simple. You know, and it it's maybe have a picnic basket off to the side were or a, you know, a cooler with things in it. Because you get ready to go you grab and go, and that's the big thing. But you know, think ahead and keep things there. One of the tips. I like to say is for your your spices herbs and spices Hughes old tic TAC containers, you know, very portable. But also when you go to the restaurant fast food, and you get the little ketchup packs, and and you know, soya sauce and mustard keep those because those are nice small little items you can keep and again, you're not bulking yourself down. So do things like that. And also have water bottles ready to go, very simple. But the water bottles freeze in. In the freezer. Pull him out use them. Of course, if that cooling for your coolers. And then when it saw down you, of course, something to to to drink. But and you know, if you have kids or not, but have a couple of these games kids may go Yam out here when my going to do well, okay, simple games and or frisbee things like that. So he's just a few list things to do on the list. And but the big thing too is you don't wanna have these elaborate meals. You know, I'm with pro sticks which is a hundred percent fully cooked chicken on a skewer. So that's the easy thing. You have to think about it's like, I don't wanna you know, picnic SP easy. Let's grab this. And let's have a salad. Let's have a few of these items that are very quick to grab grabbing go very convenient along with the other items. I mentioned it just makes it easy. And it makes it more pleasant that you wanna get outside and and do it right after work. When our when I was thinking about the the five most popular picnic foods. I saw that in some of the advance information, I thought hamburgers and hot dogs would be on the list, but that's more like cookout than picnic you. Right. That's like a barbecue. And you have more time perhaps. And yeah, you have to either bring your portable grill or your or they have a baby oh barbecue grill out in a park or something. But keeping it simple with ready made food is I believe the key. Because you know, you gotta have that. So it'd make it simple. You know, things are a little cold around here. But the advantage of going out picnicking this time of year in Vermont is that the ants haven't arrived yet. You know, it's funny because you know, there's this. But at you know, this. A little fact that after an aunt visits your picnic site. It lays down a cent as it returns the nest for the other ants to follow like, well, that's kinda interesting. You know? So if you hang out long enough, you're going to get little little bugs there. But that's something to bring, you know, be more holistic bring permit such oil put on your your wooden picnic basket and the Cotton Bowl it, smells, good. And it kind of keeps the the little bugs away. So it's of a little little tips. You have to go with these big sprays and things like that. Keep it simple. So the folks in express go are talking about pro sticks as picnic food. I've never heard of a pro stick express gopro six it's a hundred percent chicken fully cooked on a skewer you can find Shaw's in and they're great. And I we're talking picnics, but they're great for, you know, in between meals as we snack more, you know, the whole world, we're busy. So we snack. So it's a great grab and go. A lot of moms will pack it for kids for lunches or not even after lunch, but in between sports in school, so you'll you'll find a shot a very tasty different flavors from Saracho sauce to teriyaki sauce but hundred percent chicken fully cooked ready to go at protein more than twenty grams of protein, which is good for energy. We picnicking we tried to get done on on April twenty third week ago today, I was national picnic day. But when the Red Sox got rescheduled we had to forego that but national picnic day, in my opinion. Don, it's way too early for national picnic day. It's not picnicking season up here yet. But folks are folks are ready to get out and fill that basket. So we appreciate you giving us some time today, and and if you were about pro sticks and Don thank you for being part of Dave Graham show today. I really appreciate being thank you. When we return at D, nor if din the author of call me, America. Will be joining us on the Dave Graham show WD EV giant tensile? So successful last year. We're doing it. Again, fifty seventy five percent off last season's summer and winter clothing Saturday and Sunday, April twenty seven and twenty eight from nine to six party dresses from Alana Catan, I'll last Tango and Liotta sportswear from chools Jag. Towed? Royal Robbins, Hobo bags and jewelry. Come for lunch on the deck and treat yourself to some great stuff at ridiculous prices worth the trip to the beautiful mad river valley almost world-famous Warren store, fun, hunky and friendly. It's the day Graham show on WD EV. Lee tell filling in for Dave Graham today as Dave continues to recover looking forward to his return here shortly. But and I've got today coming up tomorrow in the ten o'clock hour, we're going to have live coverage from CBS news of attorney general Robert bars testimony before the United States Senate regarding the latest dealings with the Mueller report. So that's coming up, ten o'clock. Live live coverage from CBS news. And we'll have a full hour of the Dave Graham show starting at nine o'clock leading up to that. All right. Joining me on the line right now is ABC de nor if din who wrote the book, call me American a memoir Abdeal a welcome to the WD airwaves here in Vermont. Good morning. Good morning. And thank you so much for having me. You are in Washington DC today. What are you doing down there? I am here part. All on EBay tation to attend the for the fortieth anniversary of refugees Internationale. It's Orgainzation that that helps refugees globally on when I was in Kenya. They were able to publish my stories on on a blog that that that they run out of time. And that's how I got connected with these people. Yes, I am a few years ago. And I I'll digress for just a moment. But I wanna thank Marc Johnson who hosted this show for a long long time, and he made arrangements for the number of publishers to have books sent into the studio and these days, they come into my my my mail slot. So I got your book, call me American and found it very fascinating. I am about. I mean, it's three hundred ten pages. And I'm about ninety pages along the last line that I've read so far is I'm not so Molly I said, I am. Marie can I was left behind by the marines. And they will come for me soon. Some L Abby it seemed like you were confident that the United States would be somewhere in your future. I think I was on when I said that I wasn't quite sure where America was on the month. It was I was like every other Gile, even you know, if you're if you're an American child here, you know, people dream, they they have things that they want to do what they grow up that environment. At the time wasn't really very very sees. It was it was pretty hostile. But I so that I found something to to new forward to dream about. So it kind of began as quite confusing to me. But then it ended real well as you pointed out, the kids in Somalia had a lot of dreams, and and you needed them because they're the reality for a stretch of your childhood was a complete nightmare in in the fact that there was just so much Warren destruction and famine and all of the other. Parts of the the disaster that you had to deal with their and Samoa that's true. And every other Gile, including my friends, my brother and everybody else, we all had be basic human desire, you know, which was survival. I think that's part of my journey. You know, part of learning English for movies, you know, being obsessed with America was part of me thinking that I really don't think I'm safe here. And I need to get out and go somewhere, there's a there's a gesture in my book called both is the U F I S, and that's about work. We we have actually invented with. We just sort of like became a, you know, a longing, you know, like, you just press through your body, and there's no one that can. That can control you people want to get out on. That's one of the reasons why Yemen has become eight based in Asian swell Kenya. Because they you know Yemen is is a boat ride and Kenya is across the border on ever since the war. Somebody have begun those areas had been very very busy. I tried balls. And you know, I couldn't you know for the Yemen trip. I couldn't afford eighty dollars to get on the boat. I only had half of that money on. And I worked by friends get on a boat and go to given some survive some died, and I thought that was my story so survival, you know, it's it's a it's a it's a live and that's situation. It was live in that situation at the time. But I I was never fled. Sure how I would ever get to the United States, and I grew up I play learn more English if I learned the wo- mob. I realized how things are it seems that things were more. Complicated than I really thought. But that's a kid meeting American marines on the streets learning English for movies. Those were all, you know, pretty simple, they meant the world loop so much easier so saver, but that's I grew up I realized and I say this in my book, I realized that we Somalis we're not welcome anywhere. And that's what happened when I got in Kenya. It's funny. That's the page. I'm open to right now. I highlighted it. You wrote growing up with a huge number of Somali 'exiles returning from Saudi Arabia. I never understood why my mom and her parents dreamed of living in a place where Somalis are unwelcome. It would be many years before I realized that some ALI'S are pretty much unwelcome everywhere and dreams are all we have. Yes. Indeed. You know, I. The the life had had told us difficult lessons and unfor my mother, you know, she's really interested in leaving luxury live. She's she realized that the emphasis goes on the life after you know, the live here is so hard so complicated on everything is run by God. And you know, I totally understand where she's coming from. But that is where she, and I sort of parted ways, you know, where she says, you know, folks attention to the metric at the movie right on track to get sewed Arabia than anywhere else. Because that's the promised land. Like, you go there, and you perform the pilgrimage on that. That's it that you get you know, so much credit for that on a life. After onto my American dream. It was something else. And you know, I remember, and I tell us this the book where we look in. This guy's in Mogadishu up. Neither. You know, very very bright and not money lights the streets of Mogadishu, but we see the stars Kat all over the skies. And then we see some hot alight something that looked like subtle. I said with this, you know, stars I quit. But with my mother, and I would say that is a human made, you know, it's up there. It's way I've been you know, in the sky, and it's moving on she would say show. You know, she was I realize, well, maybe I was thinking critic that maybe it was you know, I was white. But then my mother is not wrong either. She swiped because she was thinking in Somalia the time after you know, like after the peace now, we're war, and she's calculating how things have happened. And now she believes that we're being punished for being too opin like warm in wearing a covering her their hair nightclubs area. Now, you know, she realizes going through the five in the war, Abby we will. We will cover that. I won't talk about you and your family, and and growing up in a lot of changes over the course of your early life, and we will get to that. After we head to the newsroom and do a little commerce here on W E, V FM and AM on the Dave Graham show. Giant tensile? So successful last year. We're doing it. Again. Fifty to seventy five percent off last season's summer and winter clothing Saturday and Sunday, April twenty seven and twenty eight from nine to six party dresses from Alana Catan, I'll last Tango and Liotta sportswear from chools Jag. Towed? Royal Robbins, Hobo bags and jewelry. Come for lunch on the deck and treat yourself to some great stuff at ridiculous prices worth the trip to mad river valley almost world-famous warrants store, fun, hunky and friendly. It's the daybreak show. Be a part of the show by calling locally two four four one seven seven seven or toll free at one eight seven seven to nine one eight two five five now back today on WD FM and AM leak attell filling in for Dave Graham today, and we're gonna take it right up to the top of the hour here with Abdi, nor if din the author of call me American a memoir, and Abby you you right in the story a little bit about what Somali people are are all about especially the the herds people because as your parents had to your parents were both heard people who who met while each tending a heard and you write about their their lifestyle. So Molly herds people have no permanent home. No belongings. Besides close some jewelry and cooking utensils their wealth is the size of their heard. They have no. Surender payments? No loans. No future plans. Nothing to worry about except lions and Haiyan 'as to them. There are only two days the day, you're born the day, you die and everything in between is hurting animals. And I know there's a lot of folks here in Vermont when they find out that there's no insurance payments, and no loans probably wondering if there's any job openings in Somalia for herds people these days. I think I've changed a lot. My mother is not a hurts women anymore. They dad is is not a hurt anymore. You know, things change the Somali the drought of nineteen ninety two and then the one in nineteen seventy seven, and then they want in two thousand eleven have really transformed disa-, Molly, the Somaliland, the, you know, it's it's getting dry or and there aren't money animals as you can imagine right now. So in this case might my parents have have, you know, don't have that life anymore. You know, it's gone, right? I at the time of their marriage. Neither of them had ever seen a Bank note or a coin. So the that's truly and and neither one of them read much. So all of the information that they received was handed down from generation to generation and they. They knew who their parents, grandparents, great, grandparents and so on worse. So there was a lot of even though there wasn't a lot of written material. There was a lot of knowledge of family history. And it's noted because you you give a lot of time to talking about the lives of your your parents and grandparents in the book. That's right. We are in oral society weaker soul much about about our families. You know, or my mom go back to forty five nays, and she could say her name. And then go back it's so long, and she was that was part of her teaching me her family on it's much more tribal. What's more interesting, though, is that my mom's are really didn't know that she leave in a country close Somalia to her. She leaves the long to to to this beautiful, please which with no borders, and that she big, you know, they could hurt from from one corner to another corner sort of we'll drink sometimes into the. The Ethiopian border, and and she members of first time, she so, you know, when when when the war was happening between the two nations Somalian Ethiopia, this whole thing was will surprise. But. Yes, Amal these are traditional and very very proud storytellers. We tell the stories I'm not for sure if everything is true. But in fact, it's very interesting and entertaining, you know, to hear these stories of our great great their fathers. You know, my mom talk about her family's stories. And Pat Bradley had told her the stories of of of everyone else died. That's all that's all. We have. We have the stories. We were they're not reading they're nowhere to be found. But I feel that those are stories that I wanted to you know, I had it in my mind. He says she told me of her wrestling hyenas doing her job. Protect. In her animals, and on her parents, even though I wasn't really lucky to see anyone. But I I to the courage to go ahead and put that in a written form as story that so that, you know, it could be there for the next generation is to to be able to read on those kinda stories, and that we a little bit transformed from oral to to writing society because they're Sony money educated. Young some ALI'S across the continent as we speak go to college and you're finishing high schools, and we're becoming people who read right? And I think this is. Something else that so now beginning in in in Somalia part of it re are as at the radio station here in Vermont, we run a sort of oral history as well and the station. Grandfather also tells us not to let the facts getting away of good story. While we're talking here about some of the developments. You're as you're the drought. Forced your mother and father to go from being hurts people to trying to make life in the city and in and you'd be your family, essentially, became strangers in a strange land in your own country. And my mother was so disappointed because she was she was teased. She was you know, sort of insulted actually say because she smelled. She's like like nomadic woman like she smelled like a goat as they said or a cow. You know, those kind of things to her this was the perfume of our life. That's what you wanted to smell. But she didn't like the CD live because of the system, you know, buildings woman who wanted to stay indoors because they were interested in in in in the lights game. So they avoided the the sun, and they ate so much because the fact, you know, putting on some weight was was more beauty in a woman of the time. Then to be skinny and thin. I don't tub of that the thing that she really hated most was was going through the the female genital mutilation that that you know, my mother was was quite chart right after she got. Married. Most of the times the city if the little girl go through that. And then they grow up with it. But for my mother her life has been transformed, and she became a housewive a night that it was the one who found a great job, and he took advantage of being Val. In a CD that was donated by now culture on. Yes there. He was he was you know, she she was she wasn't any weaker than him. She would jump us high. He could were there in the nobody life on that. She was more athletes get ham or Barth leading like ham. However life has changed for her. And she began, you know, she give birth at some. She was in a house cleaning doing things around the house on the that's our live on. She didn't really like it. She was sort of Dipa stated and discourage, but my father came back with jewelry and thanks to give it to her to her. You know, feel it's fine. You're doing a good job. But I'm, you know, I'm I'm here to to protect you and the kids nothing she ever. Yes. Say she she seems like a remarkable woman because everything that she loved as far as dealing with the animals when you move to the. City. You you not only do you not have any animals to work with down there. But the cultural practices as you pointed out, the the female genital mutilation was was brought upon her, and it, you know, typically those procedures happened in early childhood. So as a as an adult having to deal with that must be especially horrifying gosh. It was it was I don't think she ever liked. But he slowly up justed unrealized, you know, the life in the city because she had her own daughter. My sister, my strength to go through the same thing because it became an influence on our lives. You cannot be different. You know, you can't you have to do what the CD inquiries to do on. This was this was the culture, and my mom has evolved in into this this culture, but the funny interesting thing is here. I am. I was born to religious family as most of our but to a Nevada Karen's my dad basketball player, and so I wasn't really influenced by religious in the house, except that I had to go to the metric that somehow. I grew up sort of debating things and sort of saying, you know, it's it's better to let people do things their way. That's why I said, I'm not interest. Kevin address at teacher or system. So I wanna move on with my life became a dancer. A hip hop adopted sort of a hip, hop culture on the streets of Mogadishu started writing English words on the wall that I could find in the area and bro Madonna portrayed. Michael Jackson footrace to the house. So it was it was kinda worried of crazy. My mother has been changed, but I was changing seedy. Honestly, that's how I would put it all that was and again in addition to the cultural changes, the drought food becoming difficult to find and then war breaks out between Somalia and ethereal Pia and the Russians were backing both sides. So they wouldn't let anybody win that war, and as you point out at turned into more than just country against country, the lines get very blurred as to who was on what side and and a lot of the killing became seemingly indiscriminate. It did. And it was quite confusing at this time as of Erica and Russia were wrestling on on on from fields. And I think there was. It's hard for me to like I had to do some razors and talk to people find out what really happened. But it was if you can imagine we had a dictator at the time Mohammadi, very has been running Somalia for long time since nineteen sixty-nine up until the war. But that he took us into war and necessary wars that where that killed thousands and thousands of Somalis and that you know, we selling into the depression. I I could say Somalis had been committing suicide from stories in the streets of of Mogadishu the eighties and things have really become pretty tough. So. And they were this was this was not only between Egypt Somalia. It was also kind of his punctured by the Soviet Union and the United States and Cuba was part of North Korea. Who's by Rick? So he became it became a war that that will kind of file into the world hasn't really that any documentary on this as far as second from member that have killed thousands and thousands of people the dependence of this war. I think it was combat as of our pricing who was convinced that Ethiopia to our land. He was trying to take it back. And that was not you know, that was not a EVS. He then he got he got even more difficult, and they had multiple hilar- that war. Abdeal offset some gains your father at made quite a decent adjustment. He was always a a very tall, man. And so he it seemed like in Somalia at that time people were either becoming soldiers or or or something else and for your father something else became a national star on the National Basketball team. Yes, he the judges of joining the army was so high until the somehow the government pre-licensing that they also wanted to build some image into sports on. There you go, you know, so bad on my dad jumping soul high like not a regular CD man could ever do, you know? And they said, well, this is really what we made for for the basketball games. We'd be losing a lot. And we need to you know, some late this guy who could really jumped so high you do a good job. That is how he ended up, you know. Yeah. Playing basketball on nationally for for the Somali team, which was a wonderful job. You know, he he was making really good money. And we were leaving pretty good life. We didn't have a television or fruit jer anything like that. But we have at least who'd our table. We had a house we had clothed whenever he came Friday. As you could take me and my brother to these dot far around the corner. And that was my most favorite place and going to the movie theater and stuff like that. I'd also he gained some name and a couple Artie area. You know, he was calling. Barry type were everybody could could know him. And and he's t seems that he was really enjoying your life that he built until all had been. You know collapse. While when you're when you're father separates from your family at the at the outbreak of of the violence. I was sure as I read the story that that I wouldn't see from him. Again. I was very surprised if you chapters later when he when he came back, and they're the ravages even though a survived it the ravages of war at certainly taken. It's toll. Can I also shot that my brother was shot because offer like everybody else address that we had a fall, but we have a debt? So we could we were offering ever. That I will five ever came back. She as been then things have changed. She comes back. He's not the father that I sweet Khukri change cannot on tree. And he someone who hangs by support of cutting his hair when type of over all the time. I don't know goofing the I how of chance for an hour. No. Thanks for granted winnings. As this cold would reform cold and who's blade about people at wonderful lies. Vanished for him on on those, you know, leave of lease. Now, every other somebody had burnt cannot anything for granted that everything will disappear. We'd be nothing. You know? So my dad was was was you know, he became nothing. But someone who needed most corn he's bringing in water and all that. But also was threatened by win. We think we can AK47. comes the house one secured my father. He does the city. You know, it was so hard for men to the in the CD, and I really agree with him to get out find his and somewhere, and that's when he did you referred to Mogadishu as a city of women and children after the war broke out. Many of the men were either in uniform, you know, carrying a gun and and being part of the military. Factions or or they were dead. And so it was it was a city full of orphans at the time. And then when things settled down a little bit and the United Nations made the announcement that they were going to come in and provide food support at about the same time a theater opened or essentially a room with a with a VCR and some video cassettes. And so what you learned about America initially came through the voices of Arnold Schwarzenegger and Silvester Stallone. Even though that. I really did not. I thought he was an American to me like everyone in the movie they'll wash Arcturus ever, Bruce will- superstar law these action movies that have. Influence our lives because I think somehow they either some interesting flavor to the war in Mogadishu. It's like we have the real war. You know, we step on that with Yoder, aren't there's a destruction two houses. Are there? The doors may saying the rules are gone to weed those God. So it kinda, you know, makes me feel like these so interesting, but the portrait's on into us in the office that he has hand he's is, you know, the nuke of it again that he's holding. I said, you know, I said Lau, did, you know, I want this man to come to issue. He's got wipe out everything militiamen street. And we played were games completely copied from from movies. We would make all these towns from her bows. Looked like a explosion. But lifts stuff. Like that. Title seek on these these F houses and. And from there, I became up the F Eric Abdeel American and some of the first English you learned was all be back. Addi nor if dean is the author of Komi American a memoir, and so I haven't read much of the part about you getting to the United States. But as you point out, it's it's very. Complicated as you point out, a lot more complex than just in a pointing to the spot on the globe where you wanna go and and getting their many challenges along the way in your in your travels, and now these days, you are in lewiston, Maine, where there's a Somali community that numbers ten thousand or more. Yes, that's correct. And the Portland area loosens about forty five minutes drive on. That's where I say, really. Say good size of symbolic area pretty much. You know, most of them are thriving. I became a community activist a an term an interpreter translator begging movies. I was a translator pending ruin what our shorts in your safe at. Now, I have really become a certified a real tritter ending. I would be the local district court down. I will be there as sokaia pantley calculating things that giant says or the lawyer or Turney say on the people say, so, and that's that's part of the giving back to community that I would I would like to say that I'm shocked, and of course, the price to see that people. I help with language have been a made for twenty years. You know, I am. Being in in the United States how for for four years for four and half years. I'm not even a citizen yet. It takes about five years for this for the citizenship and become look have become an American citizen on on of thinking. That's the way I got here is completely different than the way majority of the Somali gap here through the refugee process, you know, you even get picked by on the US people in big by the as they can't here on being walking heart do things language shoot. She John and realized with these that I try to supporting health by ground houses, the fails. If you got the form talk to teachers and stuff like that. Which is very hopeful, and Abby how would how do you think the community in lewiston has embraced the citizenry around them. Is there a lot of interaction or are you a little closed off or you know, main people in northeastern people in general are not the most outwardly friendly types. So how's how's the relationship between the the? Melian refugees and the community and the the folks in Maine at large I could say it's defined as well, especially. Loosen? It's not bad. Echoed say. I mean, the main people Mainers as we say as we call it, our tribes, they might tribes, and somehow they all belong to. And they don't, you know, there's some of them that feel like we really don't get that much diverse Appiah with a room. On Bill young hilltop. And things the way we want to do stuff like that. But somehow there's there's quite a Confucian on the action with the growing Somali and African immigrants the culture that the the the street businesses that are just hours all of that. So there's there's one site that supports increases the new community at the new did you among those five that feels like we're coming to take everything that we just not quite quite went on. I realized that prejudice, you know. But I realized that there's not enough understanding answer believe hardy with with that part of Maine. That's not really very welcoming to to the Mavis on down, you know, similarity more familiarity. Under something. Oh what we do. Okay. I heard for millions brings breeds contempt. But that, you know, those those neither one of those things maybe true. Okay. Hey. And regarding you talked about in the book, you write about the female genital mutilation issue. And that you you find it an imporant practice in and are trying to discourage it here in in the United States. But you find that a something that is a traditional cultural practice is still happening regularly in the country or folks here in the United States, abandoning it. We have not bending. And I know I'm radio, but I would like to say that I it's happening. You know, there's a lot of fifty and pacey said that had been coats on that people were asking or the on that somehow anguish coupon. I guess that. It's you know, we we came here. But we don't we cannot abandon some district coaches that we have FDA as some Ali. It's not something virtual. We don't even know where comes from. It's not more religious affairs. I've read the phone Ron off not. Dan cards phase of Gina stopping, but we have about out of a culture and we want our daughters through that. So yes, if happening that's where it comes into conflict with willing to marriage that we're not as Malia. The I'm sorry. We have reached the top of the hour here. But I very much. Appreciate your time. Calling in from Washington DC. The book is called me American a memoir. It's on your local news stand on your at your local bookstore available at Amazon dot com, Abby thank you so much for giving us some time on the day Graham show today. All right. There we go. I'm Lee tell the Cidade Graham show here on wwl FM and AM common century Bill. Sarah's next here on the friendly pioneer. W E V FM and AM and streamed W DAV radio dot com world, the national news. Next.

Don Paul Saint Paul Damascus Paul Luke Jay parini Dave Graham Jerusalem Saint Timothy Paul United States Washington Vermont Robert frost Joe Biden Middlebury college Somalia vermont Paul profit Dave Leo Tolstoy
Bill McKibben on the 'valve-turners' and the future of climate activism

Climate Cast

04:11 min | 2 years ago

Bill McKibben on the 'valve-turners' and the future of climate activism

"Support for climate cast comes from Bank of America, financing, clean energy initiatives, and advancements in renewable energy and spurring innovation in and the growth of environmentally focused companies, markets and jobs, Bank of America NA member FDIC. Change drama unfolds. I'm MPR chief meteorologist. Paul Hutton here with the morning edition of climate cats. Some big climate stories developing this week. The latest intergovernmental panel on climate change report is out and it's stunning the world's leading climate scientists now sounding alarm bells that we have as little as twelve years to fix our climate problem before it gets much worse, a dramatic forty five percent cut in greenhouse gas emissions by twenty thirty. We'll be needed to stave off. Major climate change impacts. The International Energy Agency says, renewable energy will continue to boom over the next five years, but not fast enough to meet long-term climate and sustainability goals. The EA forecasts, renewable energy will deliver eighteen percent of the world's energy by twenty forty that's well below the target of twenty eight percent and a potential climate change. Courtroom drama was averted this week, a Minnesota judge threw out charges against the so-called valve Turner's who shut down the end bridge pipeline in two thousand sixteen. The line pumps dirty tar, sands oil, south from Canada. Bill mckibben is a scholar at Middlebury college and the founder of climate action group, three fifty dot org. I talked with him via Skype, you know more about the course of Minnesota Justice than I do, but it does seem odd that they charged all these people and gathered everybody here. And then just immediately decided that they were going to dismiss the whole thing on the grounds, insufficient evidence. It seems like they might have been able to figure that out a long time ago. What's your view on this kind of a legal action that the valve Turner's took part in civil disobedience is something his courtesy of the activists tool kit only apart and it's not a tool you wanna use all the time, like any tool. It gets doll if you years a very much. But there are moments when you have to underline the mo- seriousness urgency over problem. We have to find some way to match the incredible financial power of the oil and. Coal and gas guys. We've got a us in this case, what we've got, which is sometimes not just data, not just our arguments, not just our petition. Sometimes it's our bodies to Bill this week's latest IPCC reports sounded some alarm bells. I'm curious about your thoughts on this latest report. Well, it's very much in line with what the IPC in every other scientific body has been saying for more than a quarter century. Now, each time they say it, they point out each five years that we wait puts his five years deeper in the law in the problem is we never do anything as a result. And so at this point we have to treat a way that our forebears treated things after Pearl Harbor was attacked or something. We need to go on a while out footing. We're gonna catch up with the physics climate change. You've touched on this in terms of the rate of change that we're seeing you co-founded three fifty dot org. That number of course is the atmospheric co, two concentration. In many feel as safe. We had four hundred and ten parts per million this year. The trend is sharply higher. How critical are the next ten years for curbing emissions? So the most critical years were the last ten or maybe the ten before that we didn't do darn thing. So now we better do it. We're not gonna stop global warming at this point. That's not on the menu, but we may be able to stop it short of the point where it takes out civilizations. That's open question now and it'll depend on what happens in the next ten years, author environmentalist and activist Bill mckibben. You're also the co, founder and senior adviser at three fifty dot org. Thanks for your work and your perspective today, while thank you very much. Have good day. That's climate cast. I'm NPR chief meteorologist. Paul hunter.

Bill mckibben chief meteorologist Minnesota Turner International Energy Agency founder Bank of America MPR Paul Hutton FDIC Canada IPCC Middlebury college Pearl Harbor Paul hunter NPR
Episode 429: Vinson Cunningham

Longform Podcast

53:57 min | 2 months ago

Episode 429: Vinson Cunningham

"Hey it's max. Before we get started i want to let you know that. From websites and online stores to marketing tools and analytics squarespace is the all in one platform to build a beautiful online presence. And run your business. There's no hidden fees there's no price hikes and all websites are optimized for mobile. Right out of the box plus. It's so simple to use. All you have to do is start with an art designed template and then you can use drag and drop tools to make it your own head to squarespace dot com slash long form for free trial. And when you ready to launch use the code long-form you'll save ten percent off your first purchase. Thank squarespace hello and welcome to the long foreign podcast. I'm here with my co fout by my co worker. Max landscape evan. I don't know where avenues. But he couldn't be here evans on Evans on vacation. You need to take vacation during times like this. Even if you can't really go anywhere you need to take vacation my dear co who is Who's on the show this week. I've got to talk to vincent cunningham. Who is technically one of the theater critics for the new yorker but Writes a lot about Culture of all kinds he's written some great profiles. I think i became aware of him as a writer From a profile he did of the comedian tracy morgan. I want to say like two years ago. Which i think was on our best of the year list Followed is writing ever since and really enjoy. It and i also really enjoyed this conversation excellent. I'm a i'm a big cunningham fan. I'm glad you've got him on the show man as always the show is brought to you by mail champ. They make this show possible they also make email newsletters possible for some of the biggest and best businesses in america. Make yours one to thanks to malcolm. And now here's erin with vincent cunningham. Welcome vincent cunningham. Thank you for having me here. This great your narrative on the internet. Pick except where. You're working at the obama white house and at some point after that you started working at the new yorker. You're technically the theater critic. Their right to two critics one of two theatre critics. So how did you end up working at the obama white house in the first place. Sure it was kind of a strange road. So i left college at middlebury college sort of in the middle of my time there. I had just had a kid in what should have been my junior year and i came home sort of very dazed and confused and not knowing exactly what to do so i guess about twenty about to be twenty one at this time so i started working as a tutor for a kid and to this kid in english and math and i guess i did a good job of them like we got along really well. This kid Chat wonderful guy and his stepmother had known barack obama since he was running for the state senate or whatever in chicago so they were looking for somebody to be an assistant in their fundraising office in new york. And just because this kid's parents liked me. They're like hey lino a competent young person. I'm assuming that they're also competent competent. Young black person. I'm sure they were looking for somebody to fit that description as well And they just sort of hand in my name over. So i like took a call. I remember that. I was in a borders. That does not exist anymore. On thirty fourth street right next to madison square garden took this interview and like the next week. I was working on a presidential campaign. It was one of the stranger things that has ever happened to me and this was like a month after. He announced his candidacy to be president in early. Two thousand seven. So let's rewind to the portion of your middlebury education before you had a child Did you have writer. -ly ambitions during that part of your life vaguely wanted to write and i wasn't exactly sure what like a lot of people in in high school. I wanted to be a poet. And i wrote a lot of i mean just metric tons of bad poetry. I grew up singing in church. My dad was a musician. So singing was part of my life. And that was a lot of my sort of early aesthetic. Experience was around music. But i did want to write and i wasn't sure exactly how so. I continued to write poems in college. But i also acted so i was kind of engaged in the arts but not exactly sure how i would end up expressing all of that taking steps to i publishing work well after the obama campaign i mean whatever. I had some poems and the college literary magazine or whatever right like i'm not sure if that counts for you don't want to mention things like that in the show because our intern we'll track them down linked to them. If you do well good luck. I hope i after working on the obama campaign went on to work at the democratic national committee in washington and at the white house and at some point having been less than great at all these jobs i was not at all star in this milieu. I came back to new york thinking that i would sort of work my way toward reading in some way so i was a writer a speechwriter at the new york city housing authority the agency that runs all the public housing in new york. So i was writing in that way. But then i started to really small freelance things. Some of which were play reviews at four hundred words at a time. Very small pieces in the small paper here in brooklyn called the brooklyn paper and then not long. After that i started doing very short profiles at people know nylon magazine. There used to be nylon guys magazine. And i would do. I did some six hundred word. Profiles of people in that and even shorter book reviews so those are my first attempts at publication. When you're reading speeches at the new york housing authority. I don't think i've actually talked to maybe jan fabio may have talked about it. But i don't think we've ever talked about speechwriting on the show. So yeah what do you get when you're supposed to write a speech and how much writing Latitude do you get Writing a speech for the housing authority. Well you start out with very many pretensions that you're going to transform the sound public housing or whatever like either gonna rip but after a while it is a very constrained our form and of course the first constraint is how the person sounds right so you listen to them and listen to things that they've said. Try to work your way into that so in that way. It is imaginative. But at the time when i worked at the new york city housing authority not long after i got there was hurricane sandy so a lot of the things that i was writing were requests of varying levels of desperation like please for Money from the city council to sort of rehabilitate public housing. That had been damaged in the storm. People's lights were out people's heat off all these kinds of terrible things so often. What would happen is that you would be invited to a meeting. People who had like real jobs right the head of the agency who you're writing for the people that are in charge of the housing plan and know what repairs to be done and they just talk about what they need to say. And you're just there as like a very ardent note taker and then you you figure out from that what needs to be in there and then you just try to figure out a form and then after that it is sort of like all the writing i do now where it's like just draft after draft and people say no no and then you kind of figure it out. It's a weird sort of intermediary position the way that i experienced it. Yeah can we talk about the theater briefly because sure topic. I know nothing about the topic. I know the least about and like if i read a review of Tenant in the new yorker. I'm kind of like. Oh i'm gonna go see tenant or maybe already saw tenant you're theater reviews in the new yorker are far far far more influential on my perception of what theater is that actually going to see plays. I have no intention of seeing any of the place. But i i do read. I read your writing about it sort of in the same way that. I'll sometimes listen to like nfl gambling. Podcast even though i don't watch the nfl. It's a kind of indirect. Maybe going from the start. Like what is your relationship to the theater. I i love theater and interestingly been part of my life intermittently almost all the way through so in high school. I was in a lot of plays largely musicals even though today musicals are not like the first thing that i run to. Certainly that was an early part of my sort of artistic creative experience in college. I took a lot of play writing courses and had a lot of friends in the theater department. I was one of the worst actors in chekhov's cherry orchard that ever existed a lot of things like that that it was kind of always in my life and there aren't many experiences like going to a theater coming out and having had a real experience in that live way that you know is not replicable and will never happen again but that is the problem right because it will never happen again and to your point. Not a lot of people go to shows right so the new yorker has however many subscribers most of whom don't live in new york and therefore many of them won't ever see the show and so part of what i think of that job as being as democratizing experience and in some ways putting on the show for someone who will never see it right the show puts out not only the way it looks the way the colors are up the state of the work that the drama turns and the designers have done to present it to you but it also contains all these ideas right. I think about that a lot right that there are people that don't go to theater and in some sense more writing for them than i am for anyone else. I hope that it will have interest for someone who did see the play or somebody who in the sort of very consumer oriented way might see the play and want to figure out whether they should or not but mostly trying to put on the show again and like reiterate and develop the ideas that i got from it for somebody who might never see you. It's interesting you describe what you're doing as democratizing theater. How do you reckon. With the fact that theater is sort of essentially anti-democratic in its structure. And is that something you feel like you need to write about like do you need to say. Hey like unless you're in new york and you're making pretty good money you're probably not gonna like go. See this play. Or i'm curious. How that element actually seeps into your writing about theater yeah. It's something that i think about a lot and honestly the pandemic has given me occasion to think about this more than ever right because there are all these people doing digital theatre readings over zoom different ways right to present. There's this one great plan that came out was called circle jerk like the craziest most bizarre just really truly beautiful experience. That would never have been able to come off quite in that way on the stage right truly new formal thing right and you know it wasn't that expensive. It was less expensive than it might have been in the real world and still there are probably people who just would never have looked at it because theaters not their thing because of all the things that you've talked about all these like anti-democratic like structural things. So part of my job is to. I think to champion work that feels to me democratic and talk about it in terms that might bring people into it because there are shows that are prohibitively expensive and there are shows that ways to get cheaper tickets but this point it's almost beyond the sheer cost or perceived exclusion. It's like people. Just don't even think of theater as a thing for them. Because of that in the past right so i am sort of being like evangelical about like. Hey no no no. This is for you and if you look at our culture who's writing the tv shows who's writing screenplays for movies and things like that. It's true that like theater probably has become more influential in ways than it has been a long time. There are jeremy harris. How long has it been since. We've had a celebrity player in some ways we we're seeing a turn towards it and i'm just trying to open the door further and say hey a lot of the things that you're looking at have their roots or they're sort of ultimate influence in the theater but then also recently i wrote something about serve what it means to be an audience member during the pandemic but my thing was to say also. We need to reinvest in theater like the country needs to reinvest in the arts generally but also in theaters specifically right like in the new deal. A lot of that money went toward artists to go around the country and make murals and put on. Plays and things like this. We we need that again and so yeah also directing it toward not only the sort of theatrical establishment in new york and everywhere else but toward the government to say you know you have a part to play in this as well so the column is a really interesting space where it's like you can do the review of the show and talk about one show at a time but because it's kind of so open a form. Yeah sometimes a couple of paragraphs can go to like then making this other kind of appeal right so definitely i was thinking about. So you're kind of going where the medium goes right. There's a pandemic theater goes online. Okay you're online. Yeah i'll tell you my subjective totally uninteresting personal experience which is like. I love music. I love to listen to music. musicians i very much enjoy have had livestreams. And i've just been like oh. This is so boring. this is very bad. This shouldn't be a medium because it's not very good. And i'm curious for you as you sort of move pretty fluidly from theater and to other areas of culture like how much does whether you like something or not matter. And how much does it influence. Both whether you read about it and what you read about it. Yeah whether i like something matters but it's not the only thing right because there are two different kinds of liking or not liking. There's like sometimes something's just not for you right and you don't like it because it's in a different aesthetic worlds from the one that you're even trying to be a part of and those are often the things that i don't write about because on some level it doesn't matter whether i like it somebody that it is aimed at is the person that can tell you really what are the points of interest. Whatever but if. I don't like it and it's definitely talking about things that ought to pretend to me and my interest then. Yeah then. that's really interesting then. That's a narrative right. I care about these issues on and on and this disappoints those issues on a whatever aesthetic level moral level. Whatever and so to me. that's really interesting. And that's like on some level. All i care about the then like the issue of the pandemic is a whole other one right because at the beginning there were just a bunch of things that were just kind of on zoom and people reading the thing and it's just like it wasn't good to me and i found my job there to be really subtle because it's like. I don't like this. But i shouldn't make a categorical statement about whether that means it's not theater or something right because we often get caught up in these formal things of like well. That's this isn't theater now at something else. And i can't just get lost on okay. I don't like it or it disappoints me or makes me want to go to the theater or whatever some sort of nostalgia right then. It becomes my job to say okay. What can this mean about the new door. Does this open them. Like a new form or a new approach a new literature that this might bring into being right So then i'm just like more in an investigation mode and yeah whether i like it matters but it can't be the final word on something like that when something truly newest happening Hey it's max. Listen we've all been home. We've been home for a long time. You have no doubt run out of ideas for what to do is it. The thing is you haven't run out of actual ideas. There is probably a website. You've been meaning to build. If you're not gonna do it now truly when are you gonna do. It is the perfect time. And you gotta do squarespace because we squarespace. You'll find what you need. Maybe you're going to build a portfolio for your writing. Maybe you're going to do some new writing. Maybe we'll be publishing content. Maybe you're going to be selling products services. Anything you can dream of you can do it. Squarespace plus buying a domain from squarespace super easy because there's no hidden fees there's no price hikes and it's all berry berry simple. You can start with the design. Template they're beautiful and then you just use drag and drop tools to make it your own. You don't need to know a lick of code and all the websites optimized for mobile so. Your site looks great. On every device. I have built many a squarespace websites. Squarespace websites that have endured. That's the other thing about these squares may sites the designs are good so they don't look super era old and clunky and a couple of years the just Classy their evergreen. Here's what you should do. Head to squarespace dot com slash long form for free trial. And when you're ready to launch the offer code long-form to save ten percent off your first purchase of a website or demane that squarespace dot com slash long-form with code long-form for ten percent off your first purchase. Thanks space. you wrote a profile of tracy morgan. And there's a moment profile. Where tracy morgan is talking to some other comics about. I think it's about watching martin lawrence open for chris rock and he's talking basically about like playing to a black or white audience and different different black comics who like play to the audience differently. I'm curious for you like how aware you are in the theater of the audience that is look at the show with you and their reaction and how this might play to a totally different audience for me. Whenever i have been at the theater like the four times as at the theater i really felt like the energy of who was in the room was part of the energy of the show. Yeah it's to me. It matters totally because actors don't act in a vacuum yet they are picking up on energies and picking up on responses and it totally matters and win. you're a part of an audience. You are totally explicitly part of the show and so of course you're not only living in yourself but look who's next to you and what they're doing and as a critic. I'm often sometimes. I'll just like look over my shoulder and see are people laughing. What are they. You know what's going on. And because feeder off audiences are often mostly white and mostly over a certain age. You know age is part of it. Yeah you see how that angles the performances. And that makes you ask questions about okay then and this is something that i'm still trying to to myself in okay. What does the developmental process. And how do how does the implied audience right the people that subscribed to off broadway and broadway theaters. How does that change what they say. Yes to what kind of notes those plays get. And then how can you shake that up a little bit. How is freedom one in the context of that very audience dependent kind of art so that sort of one of the frontiers. I wanna get to in terms of knowing that you described Like looking around at other people in the theater and in these different context like you've written about basketball recently. Every time i read your writing those contacts. I go like wow. He's paying a lot more attention than i am. I watch basketball game. And i'm like yeah kind of remember a couple of plays in the fourth quarter barely. So i'm interested in what is happening when you're watching something that you're going to write about. What's going on in your brain. And how are you cataloging and storing things that might appear in article later. Yes sometimes it's just about taking notes and reminding myself you know. Sometimes something awesome will happen is in basketball game for example. And i'll just write down like you know. Russell westbrook crossover in the first quarter and like just try to remember it. And then the next day on my league pass app or whatever. Ho- up there. And i can go and rewind it and as many times as possible and describe it really well right so the notion that i'm like i've got the whole thing as an aesthetic experience in my mind. That i'm like transcribing in the moment is a little bit of an artifice right. I'm like going back rewinding over and over again making sure i've got every emotion right describing it within an inch of its life right but yeah i think the job is just paying a bunch of sometimes. We'll be watching. Tv with my wife and rene will be like you. Don't look like this. Because i'll just be like squinting and like darting my head back and forth and it's not that i don't like it. It's just that. I'm like really trying to pick up what it's putting down. You know that to me is one of my joys. It's like if you're a person like me where like thoughts and worries and things like this are intruding on your consciousness all the time. It is a great relief to have something to just over. Describe an over. Pay attention to and kind of just give all of your latent usually anxious attention to this one thing like that to me is a great joy. That's the whole point for me. Is it coming to you on a sentence level like when you see you know You write down like russell. Westbrook washed question mark or something thinking about like what how. You're going to say that in a story at that point sometimes. Sometimes i you know sometimes things goop pink of the base level of the sentence and then sound will take you to a place where okay that could see where that needs to be toward the end of that sentence and sometimes when you think abstractly then all of these like concrete sounds will sort of surround that one like abstract thought and that's what sentences for me. It's like oh this little somebody it's like somebody starting to murmur into your ear. So that happens sometimes. It often happens unfortunately. Like when i'm going to sleep and it's like the decision to get up and write a little note from or like i waking up. Those sounds make themselves apparent but often it's just like i know i need to figure out a way to say that and i'm just like doing a little place holder and then you know you open up. Docs or whatever. And then that starts to work itself out like with time but yeah the question is always how to make something equate this visual or whatever experience and turn it into the sound. That is a sentence. I wanna talk about your profile writing hat but one more question for the critic hat which is most of these things that you're doing as a critic is you're consuming something and you're not talking to anyone about it so there isn't like a quote from the director of the play often in one of your reviews. What are the tools that you found effective to get some of that stuff into. You're writing without literally being able to put it in someone else's voice like bring perspectives into that writing. That aren't just sort of. I think. I think i think well one one thing is that for me. Criticism is one of the freer forms of writing. So i mean. I'm just thinking about that. I mean i guess that could cause somebody if i felt that. I just wanted to know something that was unknowable. Other than by talking to them but often you know. I'm writing about this artist and now i'm going to go back and read. A bunch of interviews with artists has done or things that have been written about them so they sometimes you'll stumble on something that they've said before. And then you put that in there because we're trying to extend this the matic grid day you're trying to create within the column right so sometimes that'll be interesting or you'll find out something about their biography and that rhymes with the themes that they're working through in the play but to me. I think i think. I think i think is on for better or worse the of criticism and on some level you cannot be afraid of that pattern. You know you've got to say yeah. Sure i think. I think i think here's a fact but this fact matters in this context only insofar as it relates to something that i think i think so it always gets back there and i think critics are people who are comfortable with with really just presenting their opinions as aesthetic objects. That's what a columnist it's like. Here's a beautiful presentation. Hopefully a beautiful presentation. Of simply what i think looking at your writing from before and after you started at the new yorker the voice of your i think change when you start at the new yorker. It's up place that's associated with like its own there's a new yorker voice as well as of of all the writers you know it's hard to tell when i look back at my work. I think the differences are more potentially more structural than stylistic or vocal or whatever. I still hear myself it all my work and it's hard to tell also because it is a temporal fact that my new yorker work has happened after my work in other places and so i view myself as still getting better writing hopefully instill in what i think of as kind of apprenticeship moment in my life i still am really just reading reading reading reading trying to get better. So you know some of the things that you might chalk up to the new yorker i. You could also just talk to me trying to get better and figure out new ways to savings but you know getting better at writing is such an intangible process. I look back things like okay. I'm definitely better than this. But i don't remember. How except for his writing a lot. You know how. I got better or how i changed my angle. Which to me is what i. Sometimes i'll just like when i'm lost her. I don't know how to sound. I'll just make the font really big. Because i just feel closer and it's like pinnock and maybe that's what i need to do is just be a little bit closer in perspective and this is creating some sort of allusion. Those angles of approach are the things that i think. Change the way you think about writing. Yeah as goes on. So how did you come to the new yorker. Actually we We writing four hundred word reviews for the brooklyn paper and then At some point you started writing for the new yorker. How did that happen. Yeah just kept writing in different venues. And it really is kind of trail of serendipity but toward the end of two thousand fourteen. This was when mix sweeney's internet tendency. The website was still doing this column contest. I don't think they do anymore. But at the end of every year they would do a contest where people would send in their ideas for a year long column and five people would get a column and they would publish should work for the next year so at the end of two thousand fourteen are. I was one of the winners of that contest. So i got this column. And then so as i'm writing this column for mcsween. His i also was pitching things at different places. Most of which kind of went unanswered. Or whatever but i did do a really a piece that i had wanted to do about a wily exhibition for the all which was what i favor websites and it still is very sad to me that it doesn't exist anymore that piece. I'm still very proud of. And after that i felt something change after that. The time has a magazine reached out to me Which resulted in a couple pieces. One on the web there and i did a couple of things in print there and around the same time in twenty fifteen the new yorker. My editor now actually reached out to me and then i started doing pieces for them one after another and then the next year is when i started their full time so i had started another job at an ngo also writing speeches. I was reading speeches there. And i'm not sure if i can say their name because i later signed a nondisclosure agreement but i was working there and then doing like these bigger and bigger pieces and i can sometimes be slow. Things i can be. Anxiety has made me not as great as i could be certain of my like real life jobs and i wasn't doing a little bit too slow there and all of a sudden they'd be like hey. We read your piece in the times magazine. What's up with that. It was really weird so we agree that i shouldn work there anymore so for like two months or so. I was just purely freelance. And then the new yorker took me on full time. So i sort of all of a sudden. Had this very different life where i was reading full-time and no longer freelancing so it was a really kind of almost jarring transition for me a lot of features you've written and maybe this is just a random smattering of the ones. I read before this but you seem to gravitate towards subjects who perceived themselves as having been misunderstood by the media stefan marberry. You did it to pace with. And i don't know if tracy morgan would say he was misunderstood but a person who has been the subject of negative media scrutiny previously. What attracts you to that. And how does one approach a subject like that. Yeah you know that's interesting. I hadn't really thought of it that way. But i guess true. I think people are at their most interesting and for me interesting. Usually this means like full of the most pay those right when they're really trying to get themselves across yeah and they're one of my real interests and also at great horrors as like how we try to communicate just one to one forget about myself to an audience to imagine public but just me and you how i can make that transfer how you can communicate anything about myself my experience to you how often that attempt is a failure and i think celebrities are people who think about this a lot right who are very aware of their self and the whole thing is like how do i make myself come across in the way that i want. So it's like a total intensification of what i think is one of the great human problems and so watching people do that it endeared me to them which is often what i need at least on some level to write about them. Just i understand what you're trying to do and it brings up an emotion in me. One of my favorite people that have written about his sanford biggers the artist. Who was one of my favorite artists and just like he's got this sense of humor that people don't totally always get because it's so sophisticated so subtle. I think you know and watching him trying to make apparent wanted to read about him. That effort is really human to me. And so i'm always looking for people that not that i need to clarify right. I'm not working as the agent of that clarification. I'm just showing them in the attempt. So there's your perception of what that person is doing what that person's humor is and it means and then there is their own perception about what their humor is doing. And what it means and i often find like you're in a pretty good amount about comedy and this is interesting. I was about to say something. I think it's bullshit. I was about to say comedians. Don't really like to talk about how jokes work a lot. Or don't like to reduce everything to like a methodology or craft who. Let's say that. The success of mark merits podcast. Might run against that statement. But i've actually found in general like a lot of my favorite artists are not great at talking about their own are right and so how do you navigate talking to people not about you know. Where did you grow up but like how do you write jokes. What's the meaning of your jokes. Well yeah i think too. That people often whatever. You're asking me about my work. And i feel like i think it's hard to talk about how you do it. You do because if you knew it you wouldn't do it right like the reason why i start every piece that i do is because i'm not sure how it's going to come off. That discovery is why. I do think that that applies to artists of all kinds right so when you ask someone what they think they're doing they often are just like looking at you like i don't know what you mean or they're like totally down to do it and even as telling you in your mind you're thinking that's not why it's funny. You know like you like to talk about this. But you rocks ashley wrong. you know. And that's where. I think it's interesting to approach. I think i approached all of my profile adding or feature adding or whatever as essentially a critic because what can bridge that gap is what i think that matters just as much right. So this is where you get those passages in a profile that feel almost sas and can go onto the history of that medium or try to trace a thematic line through this person's output. Whatever it might be right you kind of fill that gap with this other. Skilled is critical. I that i think creates attention. And the between what. The person thinks what the public might think. And then what you think. I think that is the good of a prophet. Because he doesn't wanna be stenography of this person's point of view. It's a meeting of that point of view in yours. And that's what makes a good profile is one that brings those two things into stark relief. Yeah i think that profile of tracy. Morgan actually qualifies in that. It's actually criticism not a profile. It's actually kind of a giant review of the tracy. Morgan made the tv show the last. Oh gee you know. I think i've maybe seen one episode of the show and miser assumption was. He made that show because that was the show that salt to a network or whatever. It takes very seriously the idea that like the last. Oh gee is almost an autorised work. Bet like make sense in the grand universe of tracy. Morgan you're kind of away feels like a lot of what you're doing is trying to put yourself in the situation where anything they work on. Might be like the most important thing to them. There's that scene. In the in the tracy morgan one where he's watching like a two thousand and eight movie and he's like my acting is so good in this. Yeah tell me about putting that together hanging out with someone in those kinds of contacts like. There's a lot of scenes in that. It seemed like you must have hung out with him a lot to do that story. Yeah we i mean there are lots of different ways to hang out with a mattie. Then that's like the art of planning out a profile. I find yep is like in someways telling them at the beginning and many like entertainment people with actors or whatever. They kind of get this because they made a movie so you can kind of almost story boarded for them. It's like hey one of these times. I just need to talk. Hang out with you and we talk and that way we feel in a lot of your biography and feel all these things and you tell them why right justify your presents to them because the worst thing for them. Just get tired of you being around one time. i'm gonna comment. I'm gonna be on a movie set and we'll talk a little bit but mostly there to be a fly on the wall and that's what the first seen in that piece is like me onset with him. He's talking to me. But i'm watching him do takes of the showroom. I just need to be around. There's a scene that's backstage. Before he goes on stage at the beacon in manhattan and that was one of those things where it's like. I just want to be there with you. I'm gonna be there. I'm going to go into the backstage. i'm not gonna say anything. And on and on four or five different ways of hanging out that you kind of explained to them and that they can sort of wrap their heads around and that's fine right my sense of what it takes to get something green lit or whatever is that like the commercial thing of just like hey this sold so we're working on it. Even though there is the commercial drive on and on all the constraints that exist in in that world they use those opportunities one by one in order to get something across otherwise. If it's all just cynical which hailed. I think that's a fair point of view. But if it's just that it's certainly not worth my talking about it read but that's in some ways another expression of the problem of what it means to write for a magazine because especially in culture and the arts usually. You're talking to someone when they've got something happening right. So there's always the danger of just being a branch of public relations for this person right or just sort of a step on a media tour so just like you are trying to make a kind of art out of that opportunism. Imagine that's what they have their job as well like okay. I got the tv show. How do i get as much artistry out of this ultimately commercial enterprise right so in some ways i feel sympathetic to them because i feel like i mean a similar even though much different laura level a similar problem in terms of how i from piece to piece get my work done. Do you think about that in choosing stories. Like i honestly think booking the show you know i do like thirteen shows a year and i could easily fill it with people whose writing i really admire. Who are going on a book tour to promote a book that soon but also i'm interested in the parts of writing that aren't when you have your biggest book coming out. I'm interested in the low moments like i. Didn't you have a novel coming out as i understand it. I didn't actually know that until seven minutes before this interview is just like you're right so in thinking about one year in the writing life of vincent cunningham like you're not gonna see every play you're not going to write about everything. What is your dance card. Look like and how do you construct it. Yeah i mean this is part of the benefit of working with an editor mighty david allen. He definitely is one of my best friends. Because i talked him more than anybody right. We go on walks. We just talk about stuff. So it's just like finding these points of mutual interest in having these conversations and then when it seems like there might be a way to talk about something that's of interest to me. It's like okay. Let's do that right. So for example if we keep talking about chasing morgan. I've always been interested in sort of sub dream in black comedy. That like you know is represented by somebody like redd foxx. That like what. They used to call the party records. These really dirty sets. That would be recorded at nightclubs. At everybody can come to and they would just talk about sex and all this the raunchiest nastiest thing and use imagine the smoke filled room and people would put these things on their kids went to bed and invite people over to common laugh at red foxes late. Show or whatever. Like i was interested in that and sought about tracy morgan in connection with that way before i had an opportunity to read about it and talked about that with my editor quite a lot and so when it was possible to talk to him. We did for that reason because it was already part of this ongoing conversation that i have with editor. So that's part of it right. What are the opportunities to talk about things that i care about and i think that that logic extends itself to what i choose to read about in terms of criticism as well. Maybe it's selfish to say this. But i think of writing magazine pieces as like excuses to write about. It's like how do i turn this person this profile into a reason to write an essay about something that i'm interested in same thing with a column. Okay this play addresses themes that. I've already that thoughts about already. Want to kind of extend my thoughts and some ways see what happens when those ideas and preoccupations meet this object right so all do honor and respect for the work for the person i mean. That's the only way that you can write about. A person or work of art is to give it respected dignity but always keep that karnal right just like what does it mean to the set of concerns that i've been carrying around in some cases from khalife right and so that's the way to pattern it right. You certainly can't write about every play. I and alexandra schwartz my friend and co critic. We sit down with our to feed theater editor. So it's four of us and talk about what's coming out and then we sort of claim week by week depending on the players that are gonna be out that week and then we see a bunch of stuff and then you decide to write about one or two depending on how much space you've got an the that week so it's gotta be stuff that you can thread together with your own interests or otherwise you know what's the point right and does that interest thread. Therefore kind of include your editors interest thread. Like if you're interested in something and your editors like this is zero interest for me as a kind of a dead end. No not at all. No no i mean. This is what i love about. The new yorkers at the end of the day is about what the writer wants to do. If it's something that for example your brings you and you're not interested in it. Then it's over nobody ever forces you to do a piece and if you're interested in it and your editors doesn't really get it they're just like okay go ahead and then if you can tell that they're just not into it because of whatever reason that's all the more enticement to make it really interesting right by the end of this. I'm gonna get you to care about this. I my editor. And you're gonna be a proxy for the rest. That people will read this without necessarily having a preexisting interest in i think everybody at the new yorker the editors the whole logic of the place is. It's only worth doing as if the person writing about it is truly enthusiastic about it. Do you think that sort of following that enthusiasm if we project forward. Maybe there's a this is offensive. But maybe there's a video game section in the new yorker and twenty years instead of a theater section so a lot more people playing video games and i sort of imagined current teenagers and what they're up to. It seems like some of these ideas of what culture is will also change. The new yorker doesn't publish anything about video games but it seems to be putting more per capita energy into the theater than a fortnight i think is inevitable and i think it's all to the good. It's up to the theater. In in this part of the theater. I'll include myself actors directors dramaturge and people and critics people who write about the theater. It's up to this community to continue to make it a thing of interest. Otherwise it won't be worth writing about right are whether you like. This are not art has to justify itself in terms of the interests of people who come to see it so theater will never die because it is. I think ancient for a reason it speaks to us that in ways that nothing else truly does so. It won't die but if it's not something that one point. Two five million new yorkers subscribers are interested in anymore. It won't be there you know. I imagine that that's true. So i don't want that to happen. So part of why. Try to write really well every time it's like this is why you should care about this right. Simon parkin who writes for the new yorkers right in a lot of things about gaming that i read. Because i don't want to know what's going on adrian. Chen is no longer at the new yorker. But he to me is just whether it's gaming are so many other parts of our online life these sometimes. I'd i read his work in this. Writing is gonna be like and he's like you know fifty years ahead of his time in terms of the things that he cares about you know but that's all to the good right. I mean this is one of the ways that criticism can isn't totally just parasitic on is totally coequal with it. Right because one of the ways that you create a constituency for is to write about it really well so the great video game critic of the future will come along and write about it so compellingly that people will rush things and this will change the market for video games and make it. You know high art in a way. That never was before. So i awake that great digital critic. Whatever it's gonna be great. I actually have the same relationship to video games as i do to. Nfl gambling and the theater which is my actual enjoyment is rating about it. Like i like when a big game comes out. And i like to read a bunch of reviews and then if i ever actually by the game i get frustrated within like five minutes and regret the purchase. But i've actually really enjoyed learning about what's going on video games From the writing. There's a story that j. king did in time magazine a couple of weeks ago Which was both a profile of a korean american actor and a essay about the experience of being a korean american writer who was assigned to write a profile of a korean actor. And what goes into that. You write about black subjects pretty often and the new yorker i wonder like just even on an interpersonal level. Like what does it mean that a person gets asked. Hey can you do this new yorker profile and then you show up what are those social interactions like. And how do you think it plays out in your writing. Yeah first of all. That profile of stephen is really beautiful. And i j is my friend so it's like i always am feeling biased toward him. But that's just amazing piece. And i was thinking that pieces are good is beating back. You're insane jealousy at the person who who made them so. I'm still working on that. It is something that i think about. And i still haven't totally resolved it. I want to write about things that i'm interested in. In one of the things i'm interested in is by people and the art they create and so some level that dynamic is always going to be part of my work right but you know i will admit that like especially earlier in my career. I was very conscious of watching people. Just get stuck on. What looked like a beat bike. They just we're hiring you and you're gonna do black stuff right so i've always tried to keep my work as broad as all of my interest so this is why i was grateful to have started off having a job and therefore able to say no a lot of stuff. Part of that is like a way of conditioning editors to be like i'm just in that just because it's a black thing like here's what i'm interested in right and i think that's a constant thing to insist on your interests not become sort of constituent of somebody's idea of what a black writer is supposed to be interested in but yeah i don't want to then willfully not right about that. You're interested in in order to prove a point about. I just have to talk about black things like no. I really am interested in tracy morgan for a long time. So i'm going to do that. That's all i'm trying to represent in my writing is my interest right if there's a constituency for somebody that i'm representing. It's really that on. Ask well one thing that. I don't think i've ever asked about on the show. But you've mentioned it several times and Resonated with me. I also have Issues with procrastination and anxiety and managing my workload as you've leveled up as a writer. Has that also involved logistics and like discipline and like systems and stuff like that like as someone who described yourself as struggling like in some of these like jobs settings one is writing. Been like for you as a job. And what have you learned from that yeah. It's it's constant. I i'm always envious slash agitated by people that are always like then i wake up at six and then i do this. Then i do that. You know what. I'm finishing a piece. I then kinda slip into that mode of like. I have to get this done and i'm running later. I am late or whatever. And then i but for me. It's always like this thing is working for this piece. This is working for this moment. And then the next thing want submit itself to that rigor and i have to build a new system of approach. The writing is difficult to conceive of as a job because part of it is seeing stuff and seeing everything and so sometimes your job is like to just go to the museum of bunch bunch of different museums that week or to read a lot or to watch certain things or you know so it only works if you're kind of greasing the wheels of your life and also by the way just reading a ton so that you can stay good at writing. Which is my constant fear. That is that. I will run out of sentence. Structures run out of ways to approach things. Start to sound like an imitation of myself or something. I'm always is if you can call what i have. I disciplined so much of it is second reading a lot. So that makes sense of what is possible by writing is always refreshed. But i don't wanna over depend on the word anxiety. I all all i mean by. That is my fear that i won't be good. Which is very real for me. There's a lot of writing and so it has to be good and if you you read a lot and you look at the past and you have these people that you admire then you wanna make a contribution to something that has nourished you your life. It does feel like making that justification with every piece. And that's that feeling my friends and i. We always talk about it as like this piece to go in the collected works of vincent cunningham like every that pressure piece by piece is not necessarily productive but it is something that is part of my makeup person. I think for me were on think. We're approaching about five. Hundred episodes of the show and the show was very rough early on our early listeners. Will know glad of. I think i learned a lot from doing something every week for almost eight or nine years and you columns which is kind of a similar thing. It's kinda like if this one's going in the collected works great but if it's not going in the collective work so gotta come out. Yeah and you know. The new yorkers really helpful in that way because it is just relentless it comes out every week and all of a sudden some mobile. Ask you what do you think about this illustration and then you realize that. There's it's getting triggered. As i say it you realize that there is a page with your name on it and somebody's made it thing and you gotta feel these bases man like get yourself together. You have to fill this page. I love the theater call. You know the last or second to last page in the magazine. I love occupying that real estate. And it's like dude. You have to fill your page. And so yeah. That's the part that gets you out of your head is the cold clarity of necessity. But it's hard. It's hard to balance that sort of workmanlike necessity with like you know your desire to live up to something and meet a standard. So that's what my struggle with work has always been you know. I want to show up and really make the most out of every time. This has been great. Thank you for coming on. This is vince. Oh great thank you so much with that another long podcast comes to an ad. Thank you very much to vincent cunningham. Thanks to our editor john l. Pifer our intern. susan peterson. My co hosts max lansky and evan ratliff and of course malcolm for making this show possible. We'll be back next week.

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670: How SparkFund Is Optimizing Energy Technology for Commercial Spaces

The Tech Blog Writer Podcast - Inspired Tech Startup Stories

23:11 min | 2 years ago

670: How SparkFund Is Optimizing Energy Technology for Commercial Spaces

"Welcome to the tank blood writer, podcast, your guy to future Tech Trends and innovation in a language you understand now over to your host, Neal, Hughes, welcome back to the tech law rider podcast. As you all know by now I try to a different industry every day of the week and explore how technologies transforming it must admit doing it every say, good Ivy league can be challenging, and sometimes I'll fill it. My head's going to explode with hearing about so many different stories about how amazing technology is transforming. Multiple industries are absolutely love it out. Have it no, other way today I wanna talk to you about business model innovation and how it's actually going to play a huge role in the transformation of the energy industry meets sparks from that aiming to bring organizations an easier way VERA subscription model to oak great new energy efficient technology. Essentially, these companies going to make business leaders think differently example, your business probably no longer purchases or. Owns perations technologies like copiers printers, computer software and your data center as probably being in the cloud for some time now. So why should the systems that power your organization be any different. It's a big, big talking point at will maybe make you see things differently. So book elope and hold on tight as I beam your ears all the way to Washington. So we can speak with Pila podge co, founder and CEO at sparkman. So massive wool milcome to the show Kato the listeners a little about who you are and what you do. Sure. Yeah. Happy to be on the show, Neil. Thanks for having me. My name is Pierre LaFarge and I am the CEO and founder of spark Lund. We are at energy infrastructure company that is based in Washington DC and I grew up in South Carolina, Rhode Island. So a little bit of a north-south hybrid went to Middlebury college and then became a consultant working in in energy and climate change really focused on a couple of big questions around how can we take energy and carbon out of the system while also really solving a big problem for for customers around how they operate and maintain their their energy infrastructure in their buildings. So one of the reasons I invited you on the show today, it was after reading how you have big big plans to Netflix, always a word. The energy technology industry and how if you succeed, the lighting industry will be in for an even bigger change than the LED transformation. So can you tell me a little bit more information about that goal and what it would mean for people listening? Absolutely. So is spark funds. Mission is really to bring a subscription to all the building energy infrastructure that you use behind the meter. So spark fund is actually a platform that works with utilities and large energy companies to go to their customers and extend the value that they bring to them through the grid power gas inside the building, and to give them a a really simple patch, which is what if we could lower the cost of getting cold air, warm, air and light in your building by fifty percent with no hassle and a guarantee of function. It's really the same logic that a lot of subscription services use to bring value across categories. So in the commercial industry, you've got folks like Amazon web services. People used to own servers. They used to own them and maintain them. And the Amazon came in and said, really just that same thing, we can lower the cost of getting cloud storage and computation for less hassle and a guaranteed outcome. If you don't get the cloud storage, we promise you don't have to pay and by owning and operating thousands of data centers all across the country in the world AWS become an expert in how to optimize the cost and value of that category spark plug doing just the same thing in energy infrastructure behind the meter. So you could it be cool come, but where did they come from? He told me about your backstory inspiration behind spokesman. Sure. Yeah. So I was a consultant at a company called ICF international in twenty eleven twenty thirteen. And. At ICF. I had an opportunity enterpreneurial to a service offering that would actually sit on the customer side of the table and help them get access to energy equipment. So lights h vac controls, and we would really, you know, offer customer. This kind of end to end consultation services. And what we found out was that they were willing to pay children did not have to talk to salespeople anymore. This this industry was so fragmented, so frustrating. So complex and opaque that getting something that seemed really simple, right? The machines that produce cold air, warm, air and light, and your building was just incredibly hard to do particularly because they were focused with their time and their resources on their core business. So what's what we learned in that consultation offering literally sitting on the customer side of the table talking to, you know, h accelerate people is that the market couldn't just be fixed by walking customer through it. We needed to build a machine, an engine that could really change how value is delivered and accessed in this category. So I quit my job and started building the answers along the way, have changed and evolved as we've gotten into market and learn more and more from customers and from the industry. But the question throughout spa. Funds history is remained the same. How do we bring incredible value at a radically lower price point and credible like about less hassle to customers in the category of energy infrastructure behind the meter? It really seems like there's a huge opportunity in the space of the moment, but equally, especially after listening to you Amazon comparison. That seems so obvious. He seems like he's been largely remained unrecognized for so long. I mean, why do you think that is? It is and looking at, you mentioned the lighting industry. This is about a lot more than lighting for a long time. We thought we were in the energy efficiency industry, but if you think about what energy efficiency is, it really is a process. It's a concept more than a product, and you know anyone who's running a business or an organization or an institution right. Teaching students serving patients building hotels, whatever it is to sit in their office and say, look, your lights are working fine, but they could be more efficient. That's just not going to be high enough on the priority list to get them to change what they're doing that day. Right. Are actually smart to be focused. We say, all the time in in business focus on your product, focus on your customer and lighting and other categories that really are in the energy efficiency industry are not just boring but actually ancillary right there outside of the core business. So what we recognized was that customers really were looking for ways to offshore to outsource any part of their business that really wasn't focused on delivering value to their customers or their mission. Amazon web services is a really great example of that category where they took servers and IT and found a specialized vendor to do it for less cost, low hassle and no risk. The reason that we think this hasn't happened in behind the meter infrastructure where it has in software and cloud services is because it's fragmented and there's this amazing task to put equipment in every building in the world. Right? You know that distributed infrastructure category actually exist. It's in the building. So what sparked funds platform has really achieved is created the engine, the software, the business process, the market relationships that are necessary to deliver infrastructure in your building behind the meter as a subscription. So in a world where everything is being simplified, now just save energy efficiencies by many is boring, but we mentioned a few moments ago Don hauled really. So where do you begin to shake that label and get people on board and actually caring about it? Yeah. And as I mentioned, I think it's actually about redefining what industry this really is. It's not an energy efficiency industry. Energy efficiency is a consequence, but I really believe that what we're discussing is about infrastructure inside the building where businesses really engage is when they have an aging h fac, heating, ventilation, air conditioning, right? They have an aging machine that creates cold air and warm air, and the cost of that machines going up and the comfort and reliability is going down New Hampshire. Are you at at certain moments in your career have been uncomfortable because of temperature in a commercial building. Absolutely. I think we could stop this podcast right now out in the street and our respective locations across an ocean and say, go out, we'll ask one hundred people if you've ever been too hot or too cold in your office. And if and if either of us found one person who hadn't, that would be the biggest story that we could talk about. Office. Office, right? So this is a really a huge part of the story of our built environment. Is that these machines that bring cold air and warm air into our buildings are actually old, they were installed in the sixties seventies and eighties. They're being kept alive by baling wire and duct tape. And to me, that is a distributed infrastructure challenge and spark fund really task to answer your specific question, how do we make people care? How do we get them engaged with this with this category? It's really to go into their building and say, look, you know, you have a choice, which is how am I going to get cold air and warm air for the next twenty years in my building? Do you want to own it operate it, put all the money upfront, take the hassle of finding a vendor, making sure they install it correctly and then owning and operating it, or do you want to subscribe through spark fund and through our utility partners to the outcome we're going to deliver you that cold air that warmer in that light in your building guaranteed. We're going to bring the best equipment with. Lowest energy use and we're going to advance you right way beyond just a procurement tool. We're going to put sensors and controls devices to make sure that it's more comfortable that it operates more efficiently and then it can even deliver new value through things like grid services and and be more resilient when there's a storm, stuff like that. So we're really, we're really using technology and software as well as a new procurement vehicle called subscription to deliver exceptional value where there's a huge mounting pain point in in in in the building. Now you just mentioned old. Everybody listening, whether they'll in the world would have experienced being to hold too cold in an office building. So could you offer maybe a before and after picture of simply you've done with your clients to help people listening visualize what you want to achieve, where we all now and also what problems on alternative future west subscriptions will change the industry completely. Sure. I'll offer to examples. One of a large corporation that we work. And another of a of a medium sized regional operator of healthcare facilities. So I'll start with the smaller example, this operator of healthcare facilities called affinity healthcare, wonderful company that's about one hundred locations across the southeast mid west, and they were doing one or two locations a year. They were focused on improving their customer and resident experience through parking lot lighting, outdoor lighting and lobby lighting, right making their better light levels and making sure all their h vac was up to date. So it was comfortable inside the building and they were, you know, the growing company with with good financial resources. They were doing a couple buildings every year is kind of a normal sustainability and customer improvement program spark fund came in and accelerated that rollout by bringing project management resources, technology expertise bringing, of course, the capital to own and operate those systems on their behalf and delivering them. A massive acceleration of how quickly they could transform their buildings in this category. So we have now done more than twelve locations across their portfolio and are in the process of evaluating another ten that would basically be a five to ten x exceleron what would have taken them five to ten years. We've done in just ten months. So being able to more quickly us, you know, spark funds platform to more quickly roll out value in this category and hit your goals is a huge piece of the kind of before and after right, we give our customers the ability to really transform their infrastructure inside the building, but without any hassle at a far lower costs and ownership and a guaranteed outcome of colder or mayor and light. Testee really. So I'm curious, do you have any other use cases of way you've helped say, excuse the pun power organizations by providing access to the lightest energy, technology and anew way through the simple monthly subscription model? Yeah. So one of our. Main go to market strategies is to work alongside utilities, energy companies that already have customers who they've been serving through the grid, right through power and gas, and it's a really interesting you know shift because it actually extends one of the real advantages that these these companies have on the landscape, right? They're already there to make sure the lights stay on right. They own and operate the grid, and they provide a kill at our to the meter. We give them a way to expand that value proposition of low-cost resilient energy inside the customer's building, and really, you know, become more valuable to their customers in their in their territories and nationally and beyond. So so one example of that was the major corporate and you know, we had a pretty large challenge is a large facility had about ten million dollars worth of required h vac improvement, right? The the, the heating and ventilation and air conditioning in this building was breaking is at the end of its life. So they really were confronting that simple challenge of, gosh, how are we going to get. Get cold air and warm air in our in our building. Right, very few customers. Look at that problem and say, plant eighteen fifty, no more no more conditioned air. Just go back to your desks and deal with it. You're, you're gonna, you're gonna buy a cold air and warm air. You just have previously before spark funded before subscription. You just didn't have any other choice you had to spend the cash. You had to assign people's time to to figure out a vendor to operate it. So what we did was was came in with a subscription and really showed the customer that we could actually cut about sixty percent of the cost of ownership over that ten years. So very simple story, right to own would require more dollars to get cold air and warm air, and to subscribe would require fewer monies. To get your outcome, and we would manage all of the the project implementation. We would guarantee the install time and quality, and then most importantly, spark funded our vendor partners stand behind the actual outcome. That functional guarantee means that for ten years, which is the course of the subscription. You can, you're guaranteed to get the cold air and warm air, and what's amazing about a subscription compared to all other options ownership or some sort of financing a subscription says, if you don't get the outcome that you're subscribing to, you pay nothing the minimum payment on a subscription zero. There's an absolute transfer of risk away from the customer and towards the surpri the provider of that subscription and that's really new. That's really new in the market, right? There's never been an option to get cold air, warm air and light with an absolute transfer of risk away from the customer. You can focus on your core business and get get those outcomes from infrastructure that you need to run the business. So if we have some business leaders listening to. Today, and I think we'll get small business no longer purchases and owns operational technologies, which is a copy as printers and computer software. Why should the what's the system at Powells my organization be any different. So how do they open running with spot funded? Well, is the biggest incentive for any organization that you were with? Yeah. So if you're leading a business out there, I really make the that extension that metaphor, you're no longer in the printer and copier business. You're no longer in the server business because of AWS, but you were right. You were allocating your human resources, your time, your money, and your focus to those categories spark funds away to get out of the cold air and warm air and light business. And so you can either go to spark fund dot com and get in touch. We'll obviously set up a consultation of conversation just to see what is going on in the business and what your goals are for those categories. Or if you're in the territory of major utility or energy. Company that we work with globally, hopefully will will you know, be in touch with someone in your organization and really make that make that value proposition real to extend their existing work through the grids inside your building. So what kind of fate back have you received from your clients who've obviously comb through the whole transformation. I think, yeah. I mean, it's been really exciting. We we've got more than three hundred customers and Forty-six dates just doing our first expansions and Canada and Europe this year, and we're in more than six hundred buildings and the feedback has been incredible. I mean, this is really a shift that that extends the logic of subscription that I, as I mentioned, we've seen in IT and cloud storage and photocopiers, but we're also seeing this in our own life. So the feedback that we've gotten this is, gosh, this is this is why don't drive to blockbuster anymore. This is why I use Spotify. My CD collection is gathering dust, right? All of these services have the same logic, right? Less cost, no hassle and a guarantee outcome. And if that outcome isn't delivered, you don't have any risk. So the feedback has been incredible. And I think that a lot of what I've learned is is that this problem has never been about technology. Customers know the tech is out there and it works. This is simple stuff right light 'til. They're not simple. It takes a lot of engineering, but it, but it is a solved thing. It's something we know how to do. It's also not a problem of capital or this is not a financing challenge spark fund started years ago as a financing organization. We really thought capital and upfront cost was the major barrier as did many people in the market. And one of the biggest learnings is that that's really not the main pain point. It really has to do with time and hassle. It's incredibly frustrating. Just like I learned as a consultant sitting on the side of the customer and actually trying to get some of this done. It was the time in frustration. Of not knowing which project to pick or which vendor to use, or would it get done on time or or there was a delay that knocked out a warehouse or office for two months. That's what people fear in this category. And that's something that sparked fund and our partners can really, really remove and improve. So with the end of two thousand eighteen just on the horizon, we're gonna be starting to plan for twenty. Nine thousand nine. I've got to ask what's next? Well, we've been in a really exciting period of growth for the last two years. Particularly we've been growing more than one hundred and fifty percent in both. You know, kind of scale of customer deployments revenue and total resources. So we're really, you know, we have the privilege of seeing this model work customers really being excited about the first waves of of subscription that they've, they've brought into their operations. And now a lot of it is putting her head down and just executing on delivering that value to more and more locations of our existing customers. And going deeper and broader with with some of those utility and energy company partnerships to more of their customers were kind of leaving late venture and really going into a growth focus where we obviously, you know, focus on constantly improving the product. So improving what subscription means. We're doing some really exciting things with with software technology, particularly in the IT category. You know, we're now rolling out dynamic controls and sensors to every piece of equipment we install. So we can both benefit for more of that data and also directly optimized those systems and improve again, the comfort and and resilience of the systems. And then again, just just executing on the commercial value to the customers we have. So before I let you go because you remind anyone listening, particularly interesting what we're talking about tonight, whether can fund you guys online also might be contact to a member of your team if they just want to reach off to listening to conversation. Absolutely. WWW dot spark, fund dot com. Is our website, and there's an easy link at the top just to get in touch and we'll have a solutions Representative come out and and and have a conversation. The process is really simple, really is about to finding the outcomes you want in this category and understanding the kind of logic of subscription. And then we bring expert vendors to find every opportunity that that delivers those outcomes and go from there. Well, I think it's fantastic what you're doing handy. So easy to see why your guiding. So I went to recognition at the moment of ODI saying, you've been featured enfolds magazine recently actually seem that you'll bring organization an easy away famous subscription model to upgrade to new energy efficient technology, and that's got to be fantastic thing. So a big, thank you for taking the time to come to it women today. Thanks, thanks Neil. Really appreciate having me on energy technology subscription completed focuses on procuring managing an optimizing energy technology for commercial spaces, incredibly intriguing, doesn't it? It was fussing. It was fussing to, hey, how spoke from believes upgrades shouldn't be complicated. All required spending. Lots of money from this is just one of the reasons why they go is to change the way energy technology is access. Unlike the very beginning of the show, you'll business probably no longer purchases. All owns operational technologies like copiers printers or software an house data centers, all shrinking day-by-day. So why should the systems that power your organization be any different? And that's the question I wanted to put to each and every one of you listening. So Email me tech blog writer at outlook dot com. Tweet me at Nailsea Hughes or on my website, tech prageru dot co dot UK slash podcast where you'll find all of their of podcasts. So cloud that Pierre came on the show today. And what you said is just so much commonsense and makes you think why has nobody thought this before obviously is much more complicated than I do. Look the concept behind everything that you saying out to achieve with these company. So let me know your. Thoughts on why you Punto those tools? I'm gonna go met me self a coup potatoes. Fake. Thank you for listening. I'll see you all again tomorrow and until next Donbass strike. Thanks for listening to the tag blow, ROY appalled cost until next time. Remember technology is best when it brings people together.

Amazon consultant Washington Neil Pierre LaFarge writer founder and CEO ICF Netflix Middlebury college Pila podge co
2020 Election Results

The Dave Gram Show on WDEV

1:28:22 hr | 5 months ago

2020 Election Results

"The from radio vermont. It's the dave graham show on. Wd it's your show about the people places and the issues that matter the most to you. Now here's your host. Dave good morning vermont today morning november. The fourth twenty twenty. We have a good full show for you this morning. We are going to be talking about state races. First off with zander landon. Evita digger dot org. And then we're going to be having visit with secretary of state jim condos. I wanna talk with him about sort of how did it go with all the mail in voting and the counting of those ballots ended everything go as smoothly as you hoped here in vermont and then in the second hour of the program. We're going to be speaking with magic. It's middlebury college political science professor there as well. As steve pappas at the times argus rattling herald he's the editor and publisher of the papers. And we're going to get their perspectives on the national scene out there where it looks like the presidential race remains unresolved at this hour vote. Counting is still going on or resuming. In some places folks went home overnight to get some sleep and it looks like the margins that president trump had built up in key states. From same day voting. Those who showed up at the falls yesterday. Maybe diminishing somewhat as these states including wisconsin michigan pennsylvania. The blue wall states of two thousand sixteen. Those states are starting account there Advance voting ballots and and sure enough. Joe biden as people expected is now gaining on on the president or in case. Wisconsin has even taken as taking a lead in the the badger state so still say still unresolved. We may not know even before tomorrow friday. Actually who hard next president will be. We'll we'll talk all about that in the latter half of the show. I i wanted to visit zander. Landon of degrades political writer. There and zander believe is on the phone with us. Good morning zander day. Gay things have glad to do it. I thank you for up right. Head and bushy tailed after this morning. Or maybe a little groggy. I don't know i've never really. Yeah i can remember a few Post-election mornings that were felt like a little little lacking asleep department. But anyway i no big surprise you governor phil scott. Looks like pretty much. A coast to re election. This time set accurately. Yeah that was. That was what happened at the top of the statewide ticket. governor scott are cruising pretty easily to re election by a pretty wide margin and Like you suggested not not a big surprise You know even before covid hit. He was a very popular incumbent. Moderate republican governor and once cova did Come onto the scene Like many governors Like all governors in the united states was sort of at the forefront of Sort of handling and managing it and you know vermont has seen very low infection rates Very few minutes outbreaks Of the virus. And i think that it's pretty clear From a lot of the folks that i spoke with a full yesterday even folks on the left. Democrats that That was that was in large part. He did well last night. in in in in I think a lot of In in a lot of cases and With voters and You know. I think it made the challenge. That david zuckerman the progressive Democratic lieutenant governor had launched against the governor much harder than it would have been Otherwise so yeah not not a big surprise and another another term for filth scott and meanwhile of course the the legislature remains very firmly in democratic cans. Big night for democrats. Although one big exception we can talk about as well one. We get to that right off. Mitzi johnson the speaker of the house looks like is well the could be a recount thereby as of now it looks like she has lost her bid for re election. In her district from the lake champlain. Islands is that right. That's right She has appeared to have lost the race by eighteen. Votes to michael morgan. And leland morgan Leland leland morgan. Republican incumbent in that district and michael. Morgan is his nephew who is also a republican and it was run for this seat before back in two thousand eighteen. This race was also very close and he came within. I believe one hundred and seventy so or so votes from Winning that race. So this wasn't this you know. This was definitely the shocker of the night in vermont. i think. I don't think anyone was You know. I it in some respects but at the same time you know we had reported That it was possible that speaker. Johnson my loser see just given how close the races have been in her district in the past and the fact that you had you know. Michael morgan run last time running again and had been you know sort of working in cultivating relationships in his district. I spoke to very late last night and You know his argument. Sort of on the campaign trail Was that you know the speaker hasn't been as responsive to constituents and has been As she as she has maybe in the past and that Spur sort of democratic agendas out of touch with what voters in The district Are are are sort of what their sort of political Leanings are And you know he. He appears to have had some success. clearly winning this race at this point although like you said Our understanding is that a recount is imminent so you never know. The result could change but for now. It's you know he has won the race in the speaker of the house has lost reminds a little bit about what happened to ralph right. Who was a very powerful house speaker. thousand ninety s and then all of a sudden lost his district in bennington. And i remember talking to folks at the time and people sort of taking less at least for while from that that even when you are speaker of the house. There's a lot to being speaker of the house because you're you're really putting a lot of work and energy into sort of maintaining your relationships with other house members and of course with other state leaders you've got to negotiate over legislation with the senate. You've got to negotiate with the governor. So there's a lot a lot on your plate but the real bread and butter of a lot of legislators is constituent service and the idea that they are always at the beck and call of the folks back home and that starts to feel like it's a sort of dying the vying or thinning out. Or however you want to describe it People will get a sense of that and they they may a few of the may start to resent the unreturned phone caller phone call. It takes two or three days to return and And that is that can be bad news even for someone as powerful as a speaker of the house and so i don't know whether that really is the case here with mickey johnson but certainly it is. It is a danger that any any any any person in legislative leadership has to be. Cognizant of i would think ask really I mean i. I like i haven't reported about you know whether or not that's the case with the speaker the house but that's certainly what the messaging from both leland and michael morgan is. Is that You know they they. They said yesterday that their constituents are win the district website that she hadn't returned phone calls or emails. That just wasn't As responsive as nate she used to be with constituents And i think that's a big part of it I'll also add that just in terms of you know looking at the house itself with that loss and a couple of other gains by republicans They the democrats have Lost net One seat and that sort of In in their in their super majority or super coalition so liberal leaning members including independencen progressives and democrats sort of be able to In have been able to in the last two years sort of band together and Reverse the governor's veto pen the sort of one seat short of that now. Which which which. Which would mean that. It's probably a little bit harder for democrats to You know like. I said dan together and And reverse the governor's vetoes if we see more those in the coming years. So that's that's another kind of change From last night and A win for republicans and The the the state house Certainly they also republicans also picked up the seat and the rutland In the rutland senate district so the senate now has one more republican than it did in two thousand eighteen twenty twenty session Do you think there's any sense that democrats have been quite aggressive about pushing. Democrats democrat coalition. You talk about with other other sort of progressive leaning. Legislators have been quite aggressive in the last couple of years by pushing things like the global warming solutions act. Of course the paid family leave the minimum wage there. Those those Those core democratic issues. they they they. They pushed out to sort of the outer limits on on reproductive rights in terms of possibly alienating especially people who were more conservative on those issues. And i just wonder. Is there any talk to the democrats may have been getting a little bit little bit out in front of their skis. A little bit here on the case of the speakers race. That's exactly what you know. The republican Winners in that race said is the case I don't know if that's the case all over the state i mean. They're the numbers that they have in. The state house are still overwhelmingly democratic so still have really powerful democratic majorities. It's not like they lost a ton of seat In this case they lost a very high profile seat. Maybe you know the most high-profile seat but with the speaker but It's not like you know they. There was a huge You know republican mandate In you know in the legislature now in this election where they were they were republicans picked up ten or twenty seats I so i'm not sure that's the case But certainly with You know the governor Being reelected And you know the governor having a record number Or approaching the tie for the record. A veto of vetoes in the state of vermont governor that being currently held by howard dean vetoed and twenty one bills over his years as governor. I think we can expect a lot a lot more Sort of clashing a lot more Sort of legislative battles In the coming years where. We're going to see attention. John out and let's let's look at a couple of the other races out there and by the way Wanna mention as i always do listeners. Out there if you would like to join the conversation here you're more than welcome to give us a call at two four four one seven seven seven. That's the local number in waterbury or the toll free number one eight seven seven to nine one eight two five five or two nine one talk and you'll be connected up with wd studio and able to get on our erin. Esca zander landon of any questions you want or make a comment and a and all that good stuff so we do do welcome in appreciate our listener contributions to the conversations here. Meanwhile though zander. Let's let's turn the page and look at a couple of the other statewide contests here. I don't think there's any surprise at the congressional level. We have a very strong incumbent. Peter well who has most times coasted to reelection since he was first set down to washington in two thousand and six and sure enough. This time. Another big win for welsh. Yeah obviously not not a surprise at all. I think that in any Congressional us congressional race the the republicans are going to have a really hard time You know ever unseating An incumbent point Yeah so well just headed back To to He see as expected There weren't any Senate races this time around so yes that was. That was a other sort of unsurprising. Expected result of last night and i just Wondering what you think about the about. The republican party here in vermont seems like phil scott who favors reproductive rights and who opposes president trump. He actually voted for president for vice president biden in yesterday's election enounced and he. So there's there's that sort of Sort of flavor of republican and political newcomer. Miriam barnes running against peter. Welch definitely was more in in in in one would say in sync with the national republican party. Supporting president trump quite strongly opposing legal access to abortion and so on and so forth very much sort of standard. Us republican these days and didn't really get too far. Obviously you know again. First time candidate up against someone who has been a an incumbent juggernaut for years. Now it's going to be tough. But what does that tell you about about how the republican party in vermont might be kind of thinking about its own Sort of platform and wade presents itself to the public and the going into the twenty to twenty four twenty eight cycles. Yeah i mean this is. This is an interesting question and it's one that's been going on since trump was elected The there there's definitely have been some pretty big divisions in vermont republican party particularly between those who are elected in mafia and the people that are at the helm of the party itself A lot of Some of the party leadership is Has been sort of vocally. Very pro-trump and a lot of the elected republicans have sort of being elected As republicans and a very liberal state have been made heaven sort of Made very clear that they not all of them but some of them Very clear that they oppose the president And spoken out against him so Th that is created divide because especially last time around when republicans lost About ten seats in the house. That was a big big year of losses for republicans in two thousand eighteen. Lot of republicans were pointing to the party. And saying you know. You're sort of vocal. Support trump This this hasn't made it easy for us so Yeah it's it's not. Trump trump is Definitely can make it tough for republicans and sort of more purple Or or liberal-leaning parts of the state to get elected And we saw we saw repub. You know the biggest instances. I think where we saw republican overcome The blue anti-trump wave was Hiding sherman's race in sto- She she's a longtime incumbent. I think she's been in the house for fourteen years and the racism close in you know in recent years and i think she she Something like one hundred votes is is what's her margin in Twenty three eighteen This year she you know a lot of the republicans were concerned that she was facing their challenge again from a democrat. Joe sable courtney who. was very outspoken against the president and sort of running Running sort of on on the blue wave And along with sort of the traditional sort of vermont Democratic agenda there was. There was concern the shoes and lose your seat. But she didn't and she won reelection by very large margin so Yeah so and she and heidi sherman has also been sort of outspoken In in saying that she doesn't support the president so It is an interesting Situation that Trump puts republicans in sort of Sort of moderate republicans including the governor and the governor has been as you said outspoken and said yesterday that he was voting for for biden with she made national headlines And it's gonna be like you said very tough for Especially if you're running for. Us congressional office remarks To run on the platform that is sort of opening supportive of the president just because he's very unpopular here and you saw that from the result. Last night he won about thirty. Two percent of the vote in vermont. We'll buy one much more. Was it slightly better than the president did. Four years ago. I thought he went to twenty nine percent four years ago. If i remember correctly that's a good question. I i actually. Don't i actually don't have that number off the top of my head. I think it's about. I think it's roughly the same. Pretty close certainly within the margin of error. Let me ask you about the race for lieutenant governor of vermont and political newcomer this year at least in the it pokes sort of public facing part of politics. Of course molly gray democrat. Had been at work for peter welch in the past i believe and also has been in toiling in the vineyards in certain other respects and certainly has a lot of good connections in among the democrats. Big support from senator. Lahey for instance talked about molly. Grays ascendancy to the number two post in state government. This is a pretty big win for democrats And scott mill. Who's her republican. Opponent had been putting up a pretty good fight in this race. The polling show that the race was in mill Striking distance was basically a statistical tie according to uphold released back in remember to september october But anyway the only polling showed that the race was very close and gray took have pretty commanding victory. She won by believe it was about Nine points And is now You know very much This this as as sort of is Commonly known in vermont. Politics this job. Lieutenant governor's position which was which is now held by lieutenant. Governor david zuckerman. is You know there's there's very little sort of policy Power that comes from this. This edition Not like governor is You know in charge of creating sort of writing the laws or Anything like that They they preside over the senate they can break ties if there there is one in the senate and we don't see that very often these days 'cause of the democratic majority there but It is a big Position Politically in the state and in in sort of viewed as a staging ground in many ways for folks who have the visions and vermont. It does give Holding it a pretty big platform Political platform to advocate for issues And sort of presented vision For what they think should be going on in mafia and A lot of kind of governors including governor phil scott Run for governor So or or other Offices autism the state and It's sort of puts molly gray Newcomer Who who announced she was running in january. I don't think many people outside of montreal knew who she was. She's an assistant. She was an assistant attorney. and Thirty six years old And you know now. She's sort of one of the leading democratic politicians in the state This is a big win for big win for the democratic party and Physicians are very well and the the downtick at races auditor treasurer attorney general secretary of state. Anything interesting happening there. They know the incumbents were re elected there but were there any close races. I don't believe so. I think it was pretty pretty sweeping Pretty pretty Pretty typical of what we've seen in recent years with these incumbents it's gonna be very hard For republican who republicans. Who don't have you know. Pretty broad name recognition to to unseat establish democratic incumbents and That's sort of what we saw. Play out Last night and of course it anytime. there's you ought to political junkies like standards immediately. Wanted to to put a To put a magnifying glass telescope. Baby is the veteran instrument at this point into the future toward the next election there will be a senate seat up in twenty two. Obviously we don't. We don't know exactly whether the income it will be seeking reelection but would molly gravy well-situated for instance for a run for the us senate in twenty two or twenty four. I think that there were a lot of potential. You know names that would be thrown into that hat. I think that yeah. I think that's absolutely a possibility. I think that she's like i said kind of set up to do To you know seek a lot of different offices at this point like you know any governor. probably would be in vermont I do think that maybe you know. Two years is kind of a very short Short time to be an office before seeking another office. Usually you know you serve a little longer than than that in statewide elected office before Before seeking seeking Physician in congress. But you know. I would say i would say that totally possible i i. I haven't talked to her about her. If she has ambitions beyond. The lieutenant governor's office. She would say that. She's focused on that right now and not thinking about anything else I you know. I do think that there's definitely a lot of momentum fresher to send a a female woman to congress. They never done that this week. So one of the one of these days. He has andrew. We're out of time. But i appreciate you joining me this morning. Excellent analysis on the vermont political scene after this election day. Twenty twenty. Thank you so much. Thank dave we speaking with the secretary teach condos after the bottom of the hour break. Stay with us folks. Exciting things are happening. In more in village the pitcher in and warren store under new management upgrades and improvements are in the works maintaining the ambiance and character while breathing new energy and resources into these iconic properties. We are open while practicing all cdc protocols comfort. lunch at iraq in delhi. And see for yourself with the buzz is all about. Both businesses are hiring especially seeking fine dining room. Staff and sales associates. Were are not still fun. Funky and friendly but better than ever open daily on street warren village. It's the dave ramsey. Show w we are back in. Thanks for staying with us in the second half hour of our program. Post-election morning november fourth twenty twenty and as we've been mentioning the presidential race still unresolved looks like the republicans will retain control of united states. Senate democrats will retain control of the us house and once again the white house still a bit up in the air and so we'll be obviously paying a lot of attention to that over the next day or two or however long it takes to count all those still uncounted ballots. Our next guest is a familiar voice. On the dave graham show here. Wd fm and am secretary of state. Jim condos might sound a wee bit groggy this morning. I wouldn't blame him for being a tad tired. Obviously the biggest day of any four year period in his professional life was yesterday. And mr secretaria. How you doing hanging in there barely at all if you hours sleep last night. I'm back to the office this morning. we got a lot of work As as you know days a lot of people think that The election comes and goes and we're done but we have probably another forty five days worth of clean up work that we have to do working with our most hardworking town clerks They are just unbelievable. They really stepped up this year. two challenges that we frankly never seen before And i i can't thank clerk enough They did a great job of and their poll workers their staffs The staff year. The secretary of state's office is just wizard. Incredible time. I know that My staff definitely will be taking some time off shortly As most of working six seven days a week for about six months. Yeah that's that is a It's a busy time for sure for especially for anybody involved in in the election. Really i know that there are a lot of groggy media members this morning as well folks are did definitely didn't need the full eight hours of sleep last night but that's okay you know. We can get through that every every election day could come in around. Hey talking a little bit of sort of how things went mechanically. I mean some big changes in this in the way. The election was conducted this year. Many many mail in ballots came in ahead of time. Did that did that. Delay any counting vermont or or towns and cities able to pretty much. Just get right over that. Whatever about the road those mighty created and have pretty much smooth trip to completion of the election. So dave what we did as we move into made the decision. Obviously i want to reiterate And i've said this to you We we had two overarching goals. That we followed as we've pre prepared plan for this general election Number one was protect. Everybr- monitors voting rights and to to protect the health and safety of donald the voters but also our town in their poll workers Following the using those guidelines. Every every decision we made was based on satisfying both those And the vote by mail that we use for the general election actually was high very well taken and Embraced by the monarch. Had two hundred. I think it was two hundred sixty two thousand votes that came in by yesterday morning Let's clark said accounted for and as of right now there's the previous record was two thousand eight thousand three hundred twenty six thousand voter turnout and we are well past that number at this current time. But it'll it'll still take some time to verify those results Were were upwards of three hundred and sixty thousand right now We suspect that that will continue to grow as all the writings are accounted for. And and other most that are that are out there. But but you know it's been a really exciting time As i've said before whether you vote by mail whether you vote by absentee whether you vote in person early or vote at the polls the ballot looks the same and guess what counts the same as well and and you know i think our again. Our town search really stepped up to the plate And faced adversity that they had never faced before Y- in this year so it was. It was pretty exciting to see everything. Come together and let's talk a little bit about the in terms of the one one Result results came in. Last night was a was a little bit of a surprise. I think some folks Mitzi johnson the speaker of the house appears to have been defeated by eighteen votes. So what walk through the the recount process. We're expecting a recount. There what what actually happens in case like that right so first of all of vermont house she can can You can ask for a recount if you're within five percents For every everything else. It's two percent for the house. It's five percent so she's well within that margin To ask for a recount and once she does yes go to court to ask for that recount once she does. The recount is then Taken over essentially and managed by the courts we will provide logistical. Help to to the county clerk up there. But essentially it becomes a county court managed process. you know it was eighteen votes and and I i can't really say a whole lot about it because there's not much to say i mean at this point the votes are in and She will have to request a recount. She wants one yep and obviously that's not automatic. The candidate actually has to request a recount. Is that right. That is correct. Yeah okay. I don't know whether she has made any any statements about her intent there but Any any listeners out there actually do know a speaker. Johnson habits be listening. We'd like to call in two four four one seven seven. Seven is the local number of water breath the toll free number one eight seven seven to nine one eight two five five or two nine one talk and this is one of those little appeals. We make to the hive. Mind occasionally when there's a fact out there that i don't know and and my guest doesn't know and she was. Let's let's see if anybody out there does And i'm wondering in terms of the the mail in voting over all. Do you suspect that this is going to become sort of a new normal elections going forward. I i can't answer that question dave because that's really a legislative decision They'll they'll house in the senate will take sure take it up. Come january We will we will provide any information they need as far as costs How much did it cost overall. What actions did we take. The we would do differently. That kind of stuff We played on meeting with a group town clerks. Probably sometime in december Prior to the start of the legislature. We're going to pick Some clerks that are small town large town urban versus rural And so we have a good diverse group and will ask them to tell us what they work with. Didn't work what could be done better And what are the resources that they need to if if this were to go forward so you know we're going to do our work on the back end but again it's way too early to tell i mean i can't even tell you right now with the costs are because we haven't totaled them all up. We do know that. Were within the budgets that we were provided by congress For a running elections so we will stay within the and we will continue to move forward and provide the information. The legislature needs to make solid decisions. Let's talk a little bit about discarded valid those were big feature in the primary cause the primary the the balanced it folks received at home in the mail to be filled out or more complicated. You might argue because the because you had to select a specific ballot tied to a specific party and that was a that was an ample pitfall for some folks to make a mistake in but this whole business of having to sign the the envelope and dated and get your name printed clearly on there and all of that stuff still presents. I guess some difficulty some people. And i'm wondering do you have any sense of. Will there be your. Were there an unusually high number of ballots. Which have failed those tests in in this general election we have. It's way too early for us to tell because we haven't got participation reports yet from the from the towns They will provide that information over the next few weeks And we'll be able to make a better decision on that or have better data Typically in the general election you were right in the primary. It is a little more complicated keeping buying vermont. Not party registration state so we are what we call an open primary. You can vote if you're if you declare yourself be democrat that's only to you We don't record anything like that And you can vote in the republican party or progressive party. So that's why it became a little more complicated. Essentially the primary is three elections in one day We have a republican election democratic elections progressive election. So and we each one is a separate silo if you wanna call it And that's where we ran into problems there because the most common reasons for defective ballots are one. They didn't put the ballot. They voted into the voted envelope which is called the certificate envelope. That's one two. They didn't sign that that certificate envelope and Three days in send back the other two envelopes. So we'll have that discussion about the primary side with. That'll be a separate discussion from the general in the general election. Typically we have about one percent so we will continue to look at the The reasons why we'll find out what were the majority reasons and see if there's any way we can secure that the other piece of that is And we had several calls yesterday of people who said my i. i checked my ballot and it was defective. Can i go down and vote another ballot. The answer to that. The short answer. Simple answer is no. You can't Vermont does not have a cure a law in place I'm sure i. In fact. I know that the legislature will be taking that up as well But keep in mind. We do not have contact information other than an address and and and so the clerks don't have a number that they can call or email so we may have to go out and and require that Could be a registered voter so those discussions will have the legislature. Come january foley still need more data before we can make those kinds of discussions possible. I wonder to what extent discarded ballots could have an impact actually on individual races especially very close ones. Do you know. How many do you happen to know how we need. Discarded ballots were in that house district up in the champlain islands. Where featuring the apparent loss by mitzi johnson. To mr morgan there we have we have that data yet. okay I don't know it would be baby kind of an amazing thing. If if if all of the ballots there were there were errand somehow in rejected their therefore were pointing in one direction too. I mean. I don't know whether democrats are any more likely to republicans make one thing clear. David what's a quirk has declared a ballad defective. That can no longer be counted in any way. Even if it goes to court we would not ask the court to count that ballot. It's is defective. Did not enter into the recount. The recounts only recounts the balance. That were counted on election night. So that was way that works. Got it while a good clarification. I support announce. I'm glad i some of the people say the only you what is it. The only the only dumb question to the ones that don't get asked. I guess there you go or something like that. Yeah is secretary economists As the top elections official in vermont Like to pick your brain every now and then about what. The heck is going on elsewhere in the country and the county and continues in the race. I guess in some no small part because the it was decided by state legislator state legislatures in places like pennsylvania and michigan and wisconsin. That would not be advanced processing of early ballots. There were going to wait until after the polls closed on election day so here. We are just waiting for the the counting to happen. Is that a that understanding of the situation. Roughly accurate. Well yeah this goes back to the federalism that we enjoy. Basically it's a states rights to The article one section four of the constant reminder of the us constitution says the times places and manner of holding elections for senators and representatives sheltie prescribed in each state by the legislature thereof the congressman. Anytime make by lawmaker alter such regulations So i think what you see here is the fact that the congress and the constitution does has delegated the management of elections to the states. We have fifty states and we have six territories that we all have different rules that we follow I have been somewhat outspoken. That i think that some of these roles should should be the same no matter where we are residence. I believe the voter registration. We're we're such a mobile society today. I don't believe the of voter registration. Should differ whether you're in california and tomorrow you can be in. Vermont moved to provide And then you have a different set of rules so having said that i think states Have different ways of counting their ballots and in some states that do not use tag liters others do Some use them. Totally like your vermont. Were kind of a hybrid. We have about one hundred thousand that Count by hand. Those are generally the smaller towns about twenty percent of our state. Relation is countered by hand. The rest of count be tabulated about outer forty. Some odd town so you know we have different ways of doing it and We we do not accept postmarks here in vermont So you can't have. You can't mail your ballot back by in the mail with the postmark election day and have received two or three days. Later we are law. Vermont law says that The vote counting starts at seven pm on election night. and ballots up to that point. We'll be counted So there are some states who accept the postmark. And we'll we'll wait three days five days seven days I think even fourteen days metric california might be the longest i think they accept up to fourteen days You know and and this actually you know. Part of this is really could impact our overseas and military voters of getting those balanced back. So it's You know the process works in every state has different rules. And i think it'll be hard pressed if the president made a comment last night or morning That he's going to go to court to get them to stop the counting. I'm not a lawyer. But i understand talking to several lawyers. You can't do that the alright. I gotta stop you there Secretary jim condos state. Thank you very much for joining me this morning. We're about out of time. I really appreciate you sharing time with us on this busy. Post-election morning thank you sir. Let's go to the top of the hour break for some cbs news. We'll be back with more of the day graham. Show on the underside. Exciting things are happening. in more. In village the pitcher anymore in store are under. New management upgrades and improvements are in the works. Maintaining the ambiance and character while breathing new energy and resources into these iconic properties. We are open. While practicing all cdc protocols comfort lunch at iraq and delhi and see for yourself with the buzzes all about both businesses are hiring especially seeking fine dining room staff and sales associates for not still fun funky and friendly but better than ever open daily on main street warren village. It's the day graham show on wd fm and am with us in the second hour of our program this morning. Normally at this time we liked the lineup. One of our national correspondent. Cbs has been a lot of these folks in recent times with us. We are really grateful fat. Unfortunately they are either all busy or sleeping in a little after very late night last night and we are. We were unable to light up in your cbs folks. So we're happy to open the phone lines and let the listeners in here what do you think about where things stand in the presidential race and in the state races. Here in vermont. Happy to hear from you all of you. Any of you out there to four four one seven seven seven is a local number in waterbury the toll free number one eight seven seven to nine one eight two five five and i do believe we have a man who's been exhibiting quite a bit patient series. Been on the line for several minutes anyway. Chris from williamstown is with this morning chris. Good morning date. How are you today. Do and do are you. I'm good. I just like yourself. I'm i'm listening to the news and waiting to see where the elections fall. My so i've lived in vermont my entire life and i know that vermont is almost getting too expensive for me to live here and what i witnessed this morning is in support of what i just said that. When the secretary of state the top election official in the state has the time to be on the radio for. We'll say a half an hour but obviously he had to prepare and then he's after. I think maybe staff is too big well for myself reasons. I'm glad you asked time to be on the radio. Sometimes but i do why you feel that way and i understand why you would feel the way you do. I will say that for any public official. A there is a. I think a key. A key part of the function is conveying information to the public. And this is one of the ways that happens. Obviously the members of the public have quite a number of questions. In fact some of the questions. I was asking secretary condos. The last half hour were being emailed to me by listeners and just popping out of the woodwork kind of spontaneously. And you know might have had something else that i could have asked the next minute or two but i said to myself. That's actually a pretty good steal that one and this one and so i do think that there is. There are some folks out there with questions. And here's a public official coming along able to answer some of those questions and i think Basically that that process is is helpful. I dunno made me and call me bias. Because i definitely am on this one. There's somebody high. I agree i agree with you. I'm just thinking that in the. Let's say that he works a hundred and eighty days a year. And i'd probably not far off the mark. What probably is the most important day for him to be at his desk. Yeah it sounds like You know again. I will say if the if the mechanics and the machinery are working properly then it may not just be staff but it may be actually the town clerks out there doing their work of conveying results into the secretary of state's office in very timely way. The secretary of state's office has been performing an important public information function again by putting the results on its website. You can go up and you can go on there and look right now and find out what what percentage of the vote governor scott has gotten versus dave's ackerman or whatever and you are able to see pretty much real time as the ballots are counted and reported by town clerks out there what what is going on out there. Electoral landscape around for bought. I don't know. I think i actually think that that is an important government function to convey that information to people because obviously people want to know. They're the only other source for this kind of thing would be the media and you know have a knows. The media have been taking a beating economically and of course just in terms of rhetoric dish at them from the president and the president's supporters mainly these days. But i don't know if you'd want to rely purely on on tallies kept fly the statewide or national media. Let's either in terms of understanding what the election results really are. So i don't know. I i think that when you think about it really is to a large extent only information. It's laws are just bits of information put in books passed by legislatures and putting books and and then the fact that the government is planning on enforcing the law and and you are maybe a constraining. Your behavior by that a possibility. That's also just another piece of information. So you know. I've had this discussion with a talking with us. A top state official couple years ago and this person was trying to tell that the conveyance of the distribution of public information is not a core mission of government agencies. And i was arguing. Actually that it is that that the whole the whole edifice of government is built on the idea that we're conveying information. And so i. I'm gonna i'm gonna give you a little bit of pushback there. Did you have any other any other topics i wanted to get into. I'll just end with that I think we might be coming into a time where government needs to be more businesslike. And because i operate a business and i don't have a large staff that allows me to talk to you on the radio for half an hour. I have to get back to work all right all right. Thanks chris. hey let's go to david in burlington. Good morning david. Good morning. I made a mistake. This morning i read of other stuff before. I read heather cox. Richardson piece letters from an american As usual she puts everything in context makes me feel a little bit better. Entice ties together. A whole bunch of threats. She's a historian who teaches in boston. Who writes a daily blog. Post about what's going on right now and puts things into historical context. I learned a whole lot about the electoral college and history. That i've never seen anybody else. Attempt to unpack anywhere else in print. Heather cox richardson. She also uses the phrase which i learned from art gilman's piecing it lands a month ago the red mirage. I believe that's what we're seeing now in pennsylvania It looks so trump ahead. Because it's the people walking into the polls who've been told not to worry about the virus get on the day of but the Mail in votes from people. Who support biden trickle in and You know people have been predicting this. In including trump standing up and fallaciously declaring victory really would love to have this go into the courts. That's why the gop is filed hundreds of lawsuits in a trance. Election day So y- just a recommendation of heather cox richardson's daily piece. She is she's she is excellent and really very thoughtful and and i like her sort of calm approach. He doesn't go to a lot of hyperbole. And but just sorta digs in and analyzes the present situation and she is a historian so she she approaches things from from that perspective analogs to earlier times and so on in us history and very very welcome addition to the to the sort of radar screen out. Whatever the heck it is so thank you for that That recommendation. David said she put this stuff up at two three four in the morning. I hope she gets. You know a pay raise from her university or tenure or a book deal or something out of this. If as most of the subscribers to her blog are not paying anything for. Yeah he's wonderful. Hey dave keep up the good work. We'll try thanks david all right. Let's go to. i believe it. Stephen mooresville is next in line here. Good morning steve. Yeah hi dave. Good morning I i wonder why all the standards subject elections on the same like by the time. The ballot has come in or how many days after can be counted or whether everyone can mail in there are no one can maryland. How come it's not handed across america. That's all my wonder and now thanks very good. Question steve. Thank you for the call. I concur. I think at least there ought to be i mean. I know that there's a lot of talk about state's rights and federalism in our tradition of allowing the constitutional cost to she. Talks about states administering elections. And so on but i i would think that that would still allow the federal government to basically promote a set of best practices in perhaps backup that promotion with money or with The denial of money if if those best practices are not followed. So that you wouldn't have a situation where you know. Florida managed to get all of its vote in yesterday and counted by last night enough so that everybody knew that president trump had won florida by by the went to bed at ten and eleven o'clock last night and but the case is different in in many other states and merely because they have made decisions in their own legislatures for instance. Not to count early ballots at a time. I don't know logistically why you could not have had all of the early ballots in every state counted yesterday morning as the polls opened on election day. Just seems like you get the work done. That's in front of you first. And then and then the continuing work that comes in which is the live votes on election day. Then you count. Those should be a shorter inquiry election day because whatever votes came in early are not being added to the tally on election day. So there's actually less to count on election day logically. All of that works in my mind. I don't know why It's not the norm around the country. And maybe congress indoor president at some point ought to look at that and say. Let's figure out a way to make sure that we do. We do sort of gear up our days here for maximum efficiency. Maximum security of the vote. Now one one thing of course that Folks say about the fact that states all run their own elections is that nobody can hack a whole national system and change the outcome nationally. Because there's no national system that exists and that may be a healthy thing and it sorta we write that small here in vermont in terms of the individual vote. Counting machines in town offices are not tied into any kind of a network. So you can't hack it. I mean if you're not on the internet you don't get act that sort of a pretty basic security idea. I would think so. There are benefits to having having individually individual states manage their own elections. Because there ever were hacking problem or something like that. You'd have a big firewall. Which would be basically be that state's borders and so i mean there are advantages. And you don't wanna give up completely but you also have as i say sort of list of best practices. You know you should count all of the early incoming ballots by close of business on the day before election day. We state you do that. And here's some federal money. If you make a promise that you will do that and next time you don't get the money if you fail to keep that promise or something like that. You know how these things work so with matt dickinson political science professor at middlebury college and frequent guest here on the graham show and w e b fm and am and also joining us. Steve pappas He's the editor of the times. Artists and rutland herald and Wanted to get the perspective of These two gentlemen as we head into the final segment of today's Dave graham show here on. wd a So i hope that we have with us. Steve are you there you on the phone with us. I am excellent. Well thanks for joining me and matt tickets. That are you with us as well okay. We'll give it another minute to get connected with matt. Steve just I'm i'm curious to get your thoughts and sort of how you think the outcome year In this Special election we'll sort of play in vermont or you hearing from readers community members etc already About how they see See the overall outcome know. I think i haven't actually heard that much. Other than people are As expected on pins and needles. I think that I think one of the one of the comforting things That we saw in a lot of ways happen here in vermont is that there was a Kind of a push for incumbents to be returned to office and i think that that For whatever reason a lot of folks have been talking to me about how they that name recognition that that the people that you know the people who've been doing hard work and the the hard work that's coming You know needs a certain amount of stability. And i think that for monitor's certainly showed in big numbers yesterday they wanted to You know put people back into office. Who they who they know and trust and So at least in washington county and in to a certain degree in rutland county But certainly in washington county was. It was a sweep by the incumbent. So it was. It was a fantastic number of Incumbents that were returned and That again is the thing that i think people have been talking to me more out today. you know it's just there's so much speculation and Into the realm of the unknown right now. And the what ifs. And i've heard a few people talking about exactly what you were talking about before the break about Specifically pennsylvania know why why would you not have a process in place where You know you were being more efficient and you were being more thoughtful and mindful that this was going to be a hard situation going into it and You know. I think my editorial today actually talks about how you know regardless of what the outcome is And obviously when i wrote it i had no idea that You know who is going to win. I wrote it yesterday afternoon. It three But it does speak to the fact that there are things that we need to do. The nation moving forward that really look at what the reforms need to be in in the process. And if there are things that are outdated and things that just You know are not working. Look at polling for example i. I don't think i don't feel like pulling is a terribly. Accurate provides terribly accurate representation anymore. i may be in the minority on that. But i don't feel like You know the the the system has set up right now is is terribly efficient And really takes into consideration A lot of the changes that we've seen over time through technology and you know mail in voting and in the success that we've had with that in here in vermont certainly would speak to A call that we you know. We need more of that in other places in the country. So i mean you. The there has been less about hand-wringing this morning. Because i think everyone just wants to know one way or the other and you know just need a decision at this point. You know you mentioned the the fact that incumbents it very well yesterday and And it is interesting that the only the only statewide office in vermont that will change hands will in fact be the only office that was open. That was the office of lieutenant governor. Because they've soccer and of course ran for governor and was defeated by incumbent. Phil scott So i'm wondering Do you think that the power of incumbency was enhanced this year just because maybe people were looking for stability and continuity in the face of so much uncertainty nationally. I do. I feel like there's a fatigue and you the people wanted to go with with individuals. They knew we were intrigued. Last night as we were going through the results in some of the towns northfield example where there was no consistency. it was You know the incumbents who were returned where republicans but then You know the democrats were the the least Vote-getters in in certain other races With the state senate and and and other things like that and it was it was it was a I'm sorry for for the For statewide offices and it was it was just interesting. That people were voting Were in some cases voting for both they were not voting for party and And i think that that does speak to You know that old adage that you know vermont of vote vote their mind and not necessarily party and I absolutely like folks needed some feel like they need some comfort and stability right now. Well let's talk about this. All after the great he's go to the our cbs's sponsors. I promise that we will be. They could sit into the conversation to. We got a little bit of late this morning. But we'll We will be back in just a couple minutes folks. Exciting things are happening more in village. The pitcher anymore in store are under. New management upgrades and improvements are in the works maintaining the ambiance and character while breathing new energy and resources into these iconic properties. We are open while practicing all cdc protocols. Come for lunch at iraq delhi. And see for yourself with the buzzes. All about both businesses are hiring especially seeking fine dining room staff and sales associates for our still funky and friendly but better than ever open daily mainstream village. It's the dave ramsey show on wgn remaining in louisville science professor at college. Steve pappas the editor of the times argus and the rutland herald and Man i wanted to check in with you to find out What do you make of the national The the presidential race in the county. And it's going on now Are some folks are saying that you know a lot of this process of having to count the The Early mail in ballots in some key states And it would take into wednesday and thursday or friday And here we are is. Should this be a surprise to anyone. What what do you make of all this. It shouldn't surprise if anybody who's going to my pre-election talks I had three words for them. Pittsburg pittsburg pittsburg pennsylvania pennsylvania pennsylvania That's a combination of a convergence of factors here One is pennsylvania's really the key state. And it's very competitive to the supreme court ruled that under pennsylvania law. They can accept a ballots that come in after election day as long as postmark by election. Day in three pennsylvania's not allowed to begin processing. They're both male and votes on election day. Unlike stay vermont where you could check off the voter checklist of mail ballots. That arrived before election day. So those three factors in conjunction means. We're going to be waiting days probably before pennsylvania is this i and it so happens spencer they dt state and the rice And is there any path where biden could win without pennsylvania in other words if he runs the table through michigan wisconsin and arizona. Georgia that That one you lectoure. Congressional district in nebraska. Does that do it for him. Yeah he could win that way Again there's uncertainty fox's called arizona. Sure anyone else has for for biden. Trump is claiming. He's gonna win nevada. It's looking strong for biden in wisconsin and michigan at this point but you know let the votes get counted. I know people want to jump the gun here and start claiming voter fraud. It is not unusual for us not to know who won the election immediately after election day Vote-counting takes awhile. Well i i People get mad at me for doing this. But i i gotta say when you say people are trying to jump the gun here and started to talk about voter fraud. Who's the main person doing that. Well i think i get what you're going through. Certainly president trump is not helping nor are his supporters. But i have to be honest with you on social media or getting it a little bit from both sides here. but you're right the of the two candidates. Now keep in mind if we stop counting right now As donald trump claims joe biden would would have won the presidency. So it's kind of Counter-productive for donald trump to say. Stop counting the votes now. He would lose yeah. There was a time earlier in the night though. I think when if they if they stop code counting the President trump emerges as the winner. Right then right. Yeah that there were some early returns before. They the mailed in ballots which are trending democrat recounted in some states it looked like It had the counting stop. Trump would be the victor but nobody. I mean you have to count these mail ballots. that's just how it is. Yeah one one I i think. I heard it was bob woodward i think made the point on one of the cable channels. He was being interviewed and he said that a key difference between this and the situation in two thousand is that the the counting that was stopped by the supreme court in two thousand and bush versus gore. Case was actually counting Of ballots in florida. That had already been counted In and in this case what trump seems to be asking for is Is to stop counting. As opposed to stop recounting Does that square with your understanding of the situation as well yeah. That's precisely right if you'll remember your listeners. In two thousand what was that dispute was interpreting. Vote with a vote. That was the whole hanging chad. And the state supreme court had said we've got to do a whole recount. We're not there yet using this election. We haven't even finished the first count. So it's a distinct difference Donald trump has left legal standing here Then the bush administration or the bush campaign did in two thousand and i. I wonder I haven't really heard any any allegations. Here. that the individual votes kind of physically. You having problems like hanging chads or whatever We we i mean. Maybe this'll come at a later stage somehow but as of now the votes that are coming in overnight say in michigan and turning the apparent result there from from detroit column to the biden columns Nobody is saying that those boats or somehow flawed ended up themselves correct cetera Again there will be some localized Problems with vote-counting isolated incidents but It would have to come down to a close state. That is the tipping point state in which the margin of victory for that candidate is in dispute. We are nowhere near that point yet. Steve let me bring you back in here and ask you My sort of sensitive and awful lot of folks here remind you know it was just stuff i see online. I'm on facebook friends and conversations with people in the forward and so on and so forth Is that vermont. of course. which is you know. One of the earliest have not the earliest eight to declare for For biden in in this race in for hillary last time Certainly is different from many many other parts of the country and may not be able to kind of get why why the race is so close nationally I mean do you think that this is This is a sign. That vermont is sort of I dunno often. It's little world or out of touch with the rest of the country. Or what the heck's going on here well between politics and covert. I feel like we actually are not some kind of a strange little bubble but i i don't i don't think anybody in vermont is feeling terribly surprised this morning. Dave i think that people knew that this was going to be a close race. I don't think they knew that it was going to be this close And and i you know. I certainly concur with let that said that we have to just let these votes be counted at this point because The the the processes first phase of this process isn't even complete and i think that As much as the rest of the country doesn't like it that vermont don't like it And you know they want they want resolution one way or another but I do feel like one of the things that promote has going for it. is for one the constant reassurance that we've had in the months leading up to book the primary into this general election our that. Our process is in fact secure. The secretary of state is did a very nice job of being able to articulate in various different formats whether it was social media or advertising or commentaries to you know indicate that that here in vermont. Our process is safe. It is it is is going to work in. It's going to work way You know it should here at the times. Argus last night we had We had one hundred percent of the results from the washington county towns. Before eleven o'clock last night we had more than half of them after nine o'clock last night and enrolling county The same thing was true. We had ten towns that didn't reach out to us but now thirty one of thirty one towns. had responded unfortunately after our deadline last night we couldn't get the completely results of the senate race down there but it it works. It works when it needs to and You know may be that. We're a small enough population And we had those processes in place for dealing with the mail in ballots and processing them early and in anticipating what. The time management challenges. We're going to be last night but You know. I think we kind of sit back and do watch. What's going on in the rest of the country and say you know what i can't you be a little bit more like you know we are here And you know just kind of you know if it doesn't seem like it's working right. Let's let's do all we can to fix it That is a broad generalization. That is going to yield years of debate between now and the next election. I'm sure but You know certain things have to happen. Between now and the next election. I think To restore a voters american voters faith in this process. Yeah i i guess. The reason i was asking is because i sort of sense that there are some vermont. Who kind of expected that. This is going to be a blowout for joe biden around the country. Because i think the general the general view here is that trump has been you know In at least among many many honors you know the the strong majority who supported by trump's been a disaster as president and that And and and the idea that directs that the rest of the country would somehow not get that as clearly as vermont has gotten that Would be you know surprising. Disappointing however you want to describe it And i'm just wondering that does that mean that all depends on. I think that all depends on the side of the algorithm to your on dave. You know but. I mean i'm i. I think i think the you know one side of the algorithm here for one very heavily much more heavily populated than the other. I think i think That would be fair to say and and you know. I could say that just objectively if you look at the outcome. I think trump out. What was it thirty. Two percent in vermont Last last For in this election and And that is You know we get less than a third of the vote that tells you that The state definitely has as a as a whole has a pretty strong preference or matt dickinson. What do you think my on my own. Track there or or and not about vermont's different from the rest of the country here. I think there is A degree to which vermont irs are in something of an ideological bubble here And keep in mind They did vote for phil. Scott so Yeah not that. They're they can't appreciate candidates and the other side and they voted for him for an overwhelming majority would fill scott is not representative of the republican party. And i i do think there is a a an inability for a lot of a mantra. Really understand the sources of trump's support and sort of dismiss it entirely predicated on racial bigotry. And so on So yeah i think. I think you are right. I mean and that's the thing is that i don't I don't i don't think it's helpful to Just a a scribe all of this to race into to accused trump supporters of being racist. And all that sort of thing because labeling and shaming doesn't seem to have been very effective in changing anybody's mind here and. I don't know what are you know. Sort of how The cultural divide that seems to have formed in this country gets bridged What were the more effective ways that it might be bridged and maybe it's Maybe people on the liberal side who need who need to move in some respects How do i mean matt. How do you think How do you think that can happen or will happen. Or maybe it won't happen. Well the i think the point that you made is that you don't demonize the other side and then get them to try to adopt your views. You i andrei sorts of their views. And then you engage in conversation. That's what politics is about to often stage to demonizing them without understanding stage one. Why do they vote the way they vote. Yeah you know And it certainly you know this is this is not a not a habit That it's exclusive to one side. I mean you know you see a lot of online postings from people who lean right and and and You see words like lip card and and all these other sort of insults directed and the left and i occasionally will tell people that When you when you start out on a mission to describe a group which you do not belong. You're in very dangerous territory if you're trying to get your facts right because I mean just just for one example if you were to say You know all people on the left Favor abortion rights. Well there are some people on the left who are really would be Quite strongly pro labor and maybe Favor you know high taxes for the rich and forms of wealth redistribution Maybe leans socialist but still be Still be opposed to abortion just for one example and so therefore when you make that statement that people on the left. are in in In favor of you know maximum abortion rights you just made an incorrect statement or at least in some number of cases and And so i. I mean that's just kind of a simple and obvious example of a much more pervasive problem here which is which is generated when people try to describe groups to which they do not belong. I don't know whether any of the any of the not take the folks about that Overtime that in fact they don't seem to have actually but That's just a that's that's just one thought about all this. I mean my or my crazy. What are you what are you. What do you think steve. Well i mean you. And i've talked about this a few times in different context and i you know i have said all along that you know as much as i like to have a lively editorial page with lots of voices on it I i. It's always been a growing concern to me that We don't talk about issues very well in anymore. And i and a lot of that has to do with the formation that we're all getting from our like minded you know Algorithm driven friends on facebook. Or whatever it happens to be but we we actually don't talk Or debate or discuss and we certainly don't compromise very well anymore Especially when the chips come down And i feel like It's one of the you know there. There are lots of reasons that people kind of You know ascribe to why this is happening. But we we're not open to different perspectives. Very much and we're very very quick to judge More so it feels like more so now than ever before and that may not be true. But i you know i certainly point to the fact that you can find anything to support any idea that you happen to have on the internet. And that can be construed does truth in fact and you know support and That may not be at all true and it may take us very far away from the real core issues and and essential arguments or tenants of of a debate. We're just you know it bothers me that we kind of talk away from each other now Rather than to each other that help explain the fact that donald trump barely won the election and twenty sixteen young lost. The popular vote won the electoral college with a very narrow margin in three key states and And then four years later you look back on this presidency and you see that You know you've had. I at least i think it's about thirty criminal. Convictions against members of the trump team the campaign and administration over this period of time And then of course. This isn't just democrats charts this as an independent judiciary including that people are guilty of crimes. you've had the the fact that this president is the only one in american history to seek reelection after being impeached You have the fact that The president's handling of the coronavirus crisis has been very widely criticized. And we have two hundred and thirty something thousand. I doubt americans And all you look at all of that and you might think that a guy who won very very narrow narrowly won the election Might have a tough time in the next one and yet he's Apparently right within the within striking distance the word of the last one ended up please explain is an important one when you look at the exit polls and who voted for trump and who voted for biden. They're nearly identical to what the exit poll suggested about the sources of clinton's support and Trump support in two thousand sixteen. We have gender gap We have favoring Biden we have favoring. Let's put it this way. More women voting for biden men. We we have the division White voters voting for trump including white women. We have younger voters going biden. We had suburban voters going by in other words not a significant shift in the electorate. Then part of that is you just laid out the case for why. It's kinda surprising that trump didn't do worse but many trump supporters are looking at those same incidents income Interpreting them differently so the impeachment was driven by some craze left wing socialist in the house and he was acquitted in the senate Indictments were based on the deep state of Investigating trying to you know. Use the law to get out somebody out of power and it gets something steve's i think is putting the finger on here for the sort of the people who dominate political discourse. You know they're not a majority of americans. Most americans aren't listening into the dave. Graham show unfortunately You know they're busy figuring out how to send your kid to school. On a covid era and conversation tends to get dominated by those activists that both sides who kinda spin facts in ways that tend to support them. In ultimately the voters have to choose between these two interpretations. They can't say a pox on both your candidates So you know they just and it looks like we're going to have divided government at the end if the republicans hold the senate and biden wins. They just sort of They're not happy with either party that that does seem to be case. It's i don't know whether that's a healthy situation. I mean maybe Sort of balanced symmetry year and he's talking about divided. Government is a is a positive but in terms of getting anything done. I suspect that You know. Mitch mcconnell famously. Said it'd being the obama administration that he was his plan to try to block everything that President obama might wanna do it. And and see to obama would be a one term president He only partially seated. And all those goals. Mainly blocking a lot of obama's agenda The And here we are once again in this situation where possibly i mean it looks. It's looking increasingly likely like Like joe biden could hang on and gain narrow bakery here but then be back in the situation where for all of the legislation and coming out of the house just ended up dying and senate again and we'd be back into this wheel spinning mode. i i i you know and i maybe maybe Maybe that's the best way to go. There was a cooling the ambition of people who would otherwise Turn us into socialist workers paradise or something but I i don't know i. I imagine where basically both sides will end up rather frustrated in in progress would be Shall we say minimal. Anyway to kind of crack this riddle. Maybe twenty twenty four some at some point in the not too distant future i think one product i would jump in over the not going for a year again today. You're going to say volunteers wanted to have a few more one of the timeline. Actually let me let me put the question to to matt first and then i'll ask us what you think. Matt thoughts a very quickly. I saw steve i i. I'm having trouble hearing you. So i didn't know you were talking You know i think dave you're absolutely right. What both sides in leadership positions have an incentive to do is to say well if we only want a few more votes. We could've flipped a couple more states. We could have won the senate. Let's let's campaign campaign for the next four years rather than try to govern together. Steve thirty seconds. Yeah i mean i. That was kind of my point as well is that this is an opportunity for us to to allow for more productive to use the frustration and the concern that we have and in turn that negative energy into something that loses a direction toward problem solving instead of probably on tap at the medic. Thank you both very much joining us. The insights and we'll talk again today. The big day rancho take offence radio and Without y'all the day.

vermont phil scott zander Mitzi johnson senate legislature molly gray jim condos michael morgan dave graham zander landon middlebury college political s steve pappas the times argus rattling herald us david zuckerman leland morgan Leland leland morgan republican party
Monocle Reports: How to win an election

Monocle 24: Midori House

29:36 min | 2 years ago

Monocle Reports: How to win an election

"The. This week on multiple reports how to win an election. There were various data breaches over the last five six years where people would kind of for a moment. Wake up to the idea that their personal information was not just being collected for advertising purposes, but for more nefarious purposes Datta and big tech have changed the electoral game of the world elections destined to be putty in the hands of online giants. And one of the biggest concerns calming lection day used to be uninformed voters. Now, it's misinformed voters. Trump has objective. We spread a large number of conspiracy theories that are wrong, and it's not partisan to say that they're wrong. But it's really damaging to the information's fear, our our elections broken. And if so what can we do to fix them from Dory? House. Ane london. I'm Ben Ryland. And this is Monica reports. Before a British Prime minister, Harold Wilson. Famously said that a week is a long time in politics that was the nineteen sixties in today's politics a week. It can be a lifetime. Just ask Anthony Scaramucci ole Michael Flynn, the presidency of Barack Obama may have ended just two years ago, but consider this when Obama came to power in two thousand eight Facebook had only been around for most people for two years today. Many blame the platform for helping build the foundations of Donald Trump's takeover of the Republican party. But regardless of your political viewpoint. It's clear that big Dada and online platforms have radically altered the nature of politics. So help is an author and scholar in residence at Middlebury college in the state of Mont an article, she wrote full the near a public explores the role of big Dada in US politics. Sue, you write about a fascinating example of how the bomb? Campaign used Dada from cable TV set top boxes. Can you? Explain how that worked. So there was someone on the campaign who actually used to work for a cable company, and the campaign had this idea that if they could figure out who is watching what and when they would be able to know much more and in a kind of much more granular way how to reach those people. And so they were able to make an arrangement with a company that wasn't the cable company, but was kind of ancillary company to the cable company to send them anonymous data about people's viewing habits, which they were able to work into with their rooms into a way of reaching those people so as very very specific to those people. And to that data set, but it allowed them much more a greater understanding of of who they were trying to reach how to reach them. Why do you think that that sort of dot would be attractive to a political campaign because of course, on the face of it, it feels like fairly, frivolous inflammation? It feels like, you know, why would the presidential campaign Cav that I like watching wheel of fortune and that someone else likes watching cartoons in the morning wise that sort of stuff interesting to a campaign. So I think particularly in the United States campaigns are interested in knowing everything about everyone. They wanna know everything because the more they know the more easy. It is to figure out ways to appeal to those people. So if you're watching NCIS, let's just say the show that actually have to admit I've only seen. A few times. But you know, it's a show in which there's a high amount of trauma, but there's also kind of patriotic aspect to it. And you know, a sense about you know, the good guys always win. And it's always about law enforcement. And I think that just gives them a kind of read on someone's kind of psychological makeup, and you add that to lots and lots and lots of other data, and you figure out things about your electorate that you might not know or that you might have to guess about. So it just it makes the guessing game of how you're going to approach people. It's not necessarily who you're going to approach that's part of it. But it's how you approach them with what is called messaging. So the information that you're giving them about who you are. And what you're running for and all of the kind of data about you. The candidate is cherry picked. Very specifically for individuals who represent kind of person, and this wasn't happening in top secret bunker, somewhere this was Barack Obama's presidential campaign. It was public knowledge but suspicions around data want what they are today. So I mean, you say, they weren't an bunker. But in fact, when this was all going on it was top secret because campaigns in the course of an election season. Don't want to tell the other party the other candidates what they're doing. So to that extent. It was secret at the time, but it became less secret after the fact because people started to talk about and write about it. And yeah, you're right in the early part of the twenty first century the earliest part of it. We were all probably much more Inam word of what computers could do what big data could do. And and so, you know, this was like just a great opportunity that campaigns were able to take advantage of and now in the kind of post Cambridge analytical world, it's a little less less that but not not as much as you might think it's feels as though Cambridge nigga hers coincided with a massive change in how we've you be daughter and technology companies and the internet generally, but suspicions about how private information is being used and captured have been around for much longer. Of course, I think that in general people in this country, at least we're not really paying attention to what was going on in campaign. Certainly, you know, there were various data breaches over the last, you know, five six years where people would kind of for a moment. Wake up to the idea that their personal information was not just being collected for. Advertising purposes, but for more nefarious purposes, and each time, there would be this kind of moment of recognition, and then everyone go back to using Facebook, or Twitter, whatever they were using. And so I don't think there was a moment. But what happened when Christopher Wiley came forth from the depths of having talked to the amazing reporter from the guardian and observer had Waller widely had been the architect of the Cambridge Analytica algorithms that were using basically purloined Facebook data, and when he came out of the shadows and told us that there was something like eighty six eighty seven at least eighty seven million Facebook profiles that had been basically appropriated in a kind of underhanded way and used for these political ads that. I think was the moment. When people woke up to the connection between what they were doing on Facebook, and what was going on in the political world. And I think it was shocking to people even though it had been going on for quite a long time. And one of the things that I found out in my research was that the Obama campaign, which you know, which we all were, you know, very happy about their use of of technology. They had themselves a time ago used Facebook data in the same not in the same way. But they had taken Facebook data from the friends of friends. So you might say it's fine for you to have my data. But your friends didn't say it was fine for them to have your data. But it was totally within the rules a Facebook that that was okay. And so the Obama campaign did that in two thousand twelve. And no one looked scans at that. Because because no-one looked guests at that. But then when Wiley shows up and tells us that this happened to eighty seven million people that was just shocking the numbers were shocking, and that I think what kind of turn the tide against a lot of the stuff in the public imagination. But as I say, not necessarily in in terms of what candidates and their consultants are doing now when we look at this from from the outside. I it certainly it has the appearance of some sort of dark and evil plan from some sort of science fiction film or an episode of black mirror. But of course, political campaigns have been using much longer than you, and I have been walking this planet. Do you think Assad from all of the outrage that we see about now and suspicions is really what we're seeing in the game of collection simply a natural progression from how it used to work before the days. Of the internet. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, I think one of the things interesting about what's happening with campaigns. Is that basically they follow the lead of what's happening in marketing. So because at this point campaigning is marketing, it's just that, you know, you don't have to sell lots and lots of blenders or, you know, shoes or something like that you have to sell a candidate. And you've got a one day sale, but you still have to still a sale. So the way to think about what is it going to happen? What's you know? What's in the future really is to start looking at what they're doing in terms of marketing in the commercials on and and understanding that that will soon be adapted to campaigning sue help? Thank you very much for joining us. You listening to monocle reports. US president launching angry tirades at the free press Russian butts spreading misinformation and inflaming racial tensions. The rise of unlined media should have been one of the most democratic innovations in human history, but in the wake of the Cambridge Analytica scandal which revealed that bulletin fifty million Facebook profiles had been accessed without permission to build psychological voter per falls. It does seem that the dockside of the internet is still getting dot com. Josh cows is a researcher in the ethics of Dada. The Ellen tearing institute he explains how the rise of online is changing the nature of politics. I think that maybe I wouldn't be here. If it wasn't for Twitter because I get such a fake press such dishonest press. I mean, if you look at I'm not, including FOX hunting foxes been fair to make. Stories hit the headlines in the last couple of years, particularly since the major elections influential elections we had in two thousand sixteen both hit and UK and in the US and elsewhere. But of course for much longer and Hughes him out a bit. It's easy to see that. This is a gradual books pretty nip school revolution. I think in how petitions trying to win votes the first US presidential kinds of websites back in nineteen ninety six says in plenty of time full folks, get grits with what's been happening. But I think twins seen as the year in which will this really kind of blew up in ways, we didn't expect. Facebook offered to all of its users a blanket opt in to share their privacy data with any third party users congresswoman, yes, that's how our Plum works. You have to opt in to sign into any out before you use it. It has to do with the true of day to have about individuals all of us who use social media that information's we know is essentially for sale or at any rate. The time we spend on those platforms for sale and has been monetize mostly to sell us barbecues to sell us bicycles. But sometimes also try I'm persuaded to vote for, but if you look back because the stages of of campaigning, the earliest prison who candidates websites, they looked a lot like what you'd see in the newspaper. So that was just time to replicate the existing to g on the internet. And even how does it voltages. I mean it scales. You don't have to spend any money to print every additional piece of paper pound flute, which is great. But I think what we see today is really a step change in the ability of cans of Satyajit us, not talk the electric in general. Enough people come to this side, but to talk specifically, but when you talk about apology, I think the one that you should really be apologizing for in the thing that you should be apologizing for other thirty three thousand emails that you deleted, and that you acid washed analysis of mainstream news, meet it in two thousand sixteen suggested that there was more focus on specifically Hillary Clinton's emails than on any other single policy issue, which even ten years ago. It seemed pretty crazy say was on mainstream media, but I think that reflects y to transcend society driven more by incident towards the concept, which has he say flashy and attention, grabbing so basically if you're advertising on on incision paying for all your simply putting a message out to supporters in order for you, Mr. go instead of everything else that happened some celebrity did that day you have to compete on the same playing field. I'm not means competing fool base, human emotions, essentially, fear excitement and so on. And I think that's what you're driven the discourse. In that direction thing you need to take every election in isolation. But. Certainly what we saw in two thousand sixteen and what will probably see seeming Trump runs in twenty twenty is a campaign, which is sort of hyper realistic, hyper focused on say kind of tension grabbing message because Trump will be involved in that. But what you see from his persona in particular is this attempt to Croft short snappy memorable messages. Of course, a medium like Twitter is well suited to that. Now by no means is every American vote on Twitter, but by having a high concentration of journalists on Twitter who potentially willing to unprovided that message onto mainstream media, you can see a chain by which actually Trump earnings tweet to his fifty million follows which would not have been enough to win him the election this time around but onto the onto the mainstream media agenda, generally so that ability to capture a particular medium and one which is for Quinton by other people who spread messages really had an impact in two thousand sixteen and could sunny well do twenty twenty. We had a case where we had an African American guy who is a fan of mine. Great fan. Great guy. In fact, I wanna find out what's going on with him. Look at my African American over here. Look at him. I you the greatest you know, what I'm talking about. Okay. When we think about this is if you living UK twenty is going to be a head of the Ninety-seven woman landslide. If you went to a new stand. Yes, you'd see newspapers being against labor winning that election UT newspapers being Pru. Labor winning the problem with the current meter environment. Is that you only see what you'll quote unquote supposed to see. So you see what your friends important all skewed in certain directions. Hang on what we believe in or increasing me, advertisers, will plus club ties in particular think you should see so much that we're being talked with particular messaging, though, that is important the point is that we don't see the whole range of different opinions, but we don't necessarily understand the other side as well because we don't expose to viewpoints, I think that's one fundamental difference between the media environment. If you look at CNN, and if you look at these other networks NBC I made a fortune for NBC with the apprentice, I had a top. Show where they were doing horribly, and I had one of the most successful reality shows of all time I made and I was on fourteen season. And you see what happened when I'm not on you. So what happened to the show was disaster? I was on. I was very good NBC. And they are despicable despicable in their coverage. Josh CAL's from the Ellen cheering institute. This is monocle reports this week we're looking at the changing nature of elections in the wake of the twenty sixteen vote in the United States of what constitutes a rigged election began to shift to some rigging Matz, gist, surreptitiously gaining access to election results and physically changing them. But what if hacking an election wasn't even necessary? What have you could sway vote simply by twain with the definitions of fact and fiction? Brian Close is a columnist for the Washington Post and co author of the book how to rig an election, Brian, how do you define a rigged election? We talk about rigging something that's an illegitimate manipulation of the democratic process, which is deliberately subjective precisely because rigging often comes in innovative ways. So anytime you define it in a certain way people come up with a new way to manipulate the process, and then they say, oh wasn't rigged. Actually, it was. So it's a little bit subjective. But I think what's changed in the digital world. Is that used to be the case that you had to be in the country to regulation you had to actually physically be at the polling location stuffing ballot box intimidating voters. What's now changed in two thousand eighteen is that it's much easier to make remote manipulations to either hack into campaigns or to use trolls and bought farms to try to manipulate public opinion or to try to hack into voting systems to directly change votes on on voting machines or to try to manipulate the voter roll itself because a lot of election databases are digitized, and you might be surprised note that an Africa, for example, a lot of elections have become digitized to the point of having biometric scanners fingerprint scanners, and that again, you know, is potentially a source of solutions to election in it makes it harder for dead people to vote, for example, because you don't have their fingers, hopefully, but at the same time, you, you know, it also gives the state a lever of control because they can actually manipulate how that software functions. And whether it ends up disqualifying, a large number of people in opposition areas, for example, in the twenty in the off of the twenty six election in the United States. There are a lot of people who pointed to the potential steps that that Russia might have taken in order to meddle in that election. And then we saw that word meddling pop up as something that is quite distinct from wreaking or hacking the election where do those lines start and stop is it still wreaking election to simply middle with the ideas of what people might know is true or not true about the democratic process before the actual vote takes place. I have to say I was smiling. Because I I hate this word, I think it totally downplays the seriousness Medellin is one of these things that you ascribe to think of like, Scooby doo, you know, at the end of the Scooby doo episodes, the the man in the mass says I would have gotten away for it. If it weren't for you meddling kids. You know, the cartoon, and I'm so the words I use our information warfare, which I think is much more apt it's much more in keeping with what has been a long standing Soviet practice. And now. Russian practice, which is affecting understanding that as a power that has less financial resources, less military might then its adversaries they need to use information flows to try to divide democracies against themselves and inflict damage that they would not otherwise inflict. And so this type of information warfare exploits the fact that democracy at its core is about information flows to citizens because if you think about democracy, actually has one definition it's informed consent of the governed. In other words, people need to know what's going on. And they need to be able to say we approve of it or we disapprove of it. And if you can change the information flows than people might not know what's going on. And that's why you know, the twenty first century challenge for democracy is not uninformed voters. Like, it may have been say the nineteen fifties to nineteen nineties. It's misinformed voters. It's people who think they know what's going on people who think that they're really in the know about the sort of secret ways that the political system functions. And in fact, it's a lot of that is based on lies conspiracy theories or disinflation spread by foreign adversaries. So this tempt to weaponize information in a way that creates these self inflicted wounds in democratic systems is a challenge for the twenty th century. That doesn't have a straightforward answer precisely because democracy requires that information flows be open. And that is what foreign governments are taking advantage of. And Russia was the main one in two thousand sixteen it will not be the only one going forward. They'll be a lot of people who look at that blueprints and copy at elsewhere in the western world, this idea of allowing people even encouraging people to be willfully misinformed. You might put a lot of the blame for that on the dose step of Donald Trump. If it were here in Britain at might be Boris Johnson or Nigel Faraj when we talk about the Brexit vote. But this this style of information warfare has been going on for quite a long time before these people had quite the political clout they have had recently, where do you put the blame for this? Is it all just because of the rise of online media? And this fracturing of what used to be a suppose Faye? Early slim list of places where people would get their mission from the newspapers the evening news at cetera. Yes. So I think you know, we have to really clear about differences in propaganda and disinformation in a way because there are certainly things that polticians have been doing for a long time that puts spin or is misleading about information. But it's not outright fabricated. It's not outright wrong. Right. So I mean, one of the main stories in the twenty sixteen campaign in terms of the number of shares was pope endorses Donald Trump, which never happened. Right. I mean, this is one of the main stories in that campaign. So to me, there's there's a fundamental difference between spin and outright disinformation that is aimed at misinforming people with just a blatant lie. So that's one thing. I think the other thing that we have to keep in mind is that people are self selecting into information, echo, chamber and social media makes us much easier. There's a much wider menu of information opportunities that people can choose from. And the problem is, you know, in the past you sort of had this sense of shared reality because most citizens in a democracy received their news. From a smaller or narrower section of press outlets on the one hand that was bad because it meant that there was less democracy in the press. In other words, there were fewer information outlets that people could choose from on the other hand at that people sort of agree on what was happening and the problem with the splintering of information flows that society has to grapple with is that also when people self selected those echo chambers. The reality that we live in splintered where people look at the same events and are finding radically different conclusions. Not about what to do about it. But what actually happened? And that is the big problem is is we have to sort of draw lines between overt and in a sort of less nefarious, but still problematic efforts of propaganda. I also think one thing it's really important as you know, in the past these attempts to sort of damage campaigns with interventions they were much more visible in a way. So the Watergate break in which Richard Nixon, you know, orchestrated and then tried to cover up people actually broke into a building. So when they were cut it was like, okay this burglars. There's. Henchmen? We have this sort of narrative of what we understand as being the various behavior, when it's you know, the Russians year are you doing it and doing it in cyberspace, it's harder to have the smoking gun. We don't have sort of the clear evidence in the same way of the henchmen breaking in sort of digital fingerprints that a lot of people don't understand. And that unfortunately, makes it seem less serious to a lot of people. When in fact, the scope of the hacking was much greater than Watergate the information flows that were affected by it. We're much broader. And so I think we need to also change our mentality that this is the same or worse than actual physical theft or break ins, and we need to understand that just because it happens in cyberspace doesn't make it any less consequential. Where does the big danger lie? We more at risk from simply agreeing on what's true, and what's false. Or is this still quite a doc plan to hack into an election and physically changed the metrics of what he's taking place? Into motorcity. Well, I think the two are linked to think that the, you know, the information flows are meta problem. In other words, there are problem that affects every other problem in politics. So I think you know at its core. If we if we can't agree on a shared reality. The entire democratic system is eventually going to break down. And that's a really big problem. It's not one that's sort of twenty thirty forty years away. It's on our doorstep. And it's something that's increasingly becoming clear in the divides that exist in American politics that are not based on differences in in tax tax bills. But based on differences of realities competing realities of what actually is happening, but beyond that, I think that there are some volunteer abilities that would be easy to fix right? So one of the people of this. I mean, it's just mind boggling that this hasn't been fixed after the twenty sixteen information warfare and hacking efforts by the Russian government. But there's fifteen states that still use what are called DR voting machines direct recording voting machines. And that means that when you cast your ballot. There's no paper trail whatsoever. It's stored on a single computer chip in the voting machine. Researchers have shown that it's so easy to hack into these that. They were able to in a matter of minutes change it. So every time somebody cast a vote it played the university of Michigan fight song, which was from whether the whether researchers were from a child hacked into one of these voting machines last year at a hack on in six minutes. I believe and the headline was if the child says, I'm not even a very good hacker. These are seriously vulnerable machines, and they're still being used as part of the democratic process. And it's the thing is people say, well, why are we using these the only answer really is speed you can count the votes a little bit faster. But to get the answer wrong. Simply so, you know, wolf Blitzer can be on CNN proclaiming election results, two hours earlier than he would if they had paper is just it's the most idiotic self-inflicted vulnerability that you could imagine. And it's the solution is two thousand five hundred years old, and it's called paper, Brian Klaus. Thank you. Before we go look at what the numbers can tell us about where we this week as the results of the midterm elections in the United States, trickle in you might be wondering how in twenty eighteen the true feelings of voters can only become clear after election day. Well, as we've learned there are many ways of gauging, the political sentiment of an electorate in twenty eighteen including what we watch on television in the lead up to the 2016 election, the advertising them the Rubicon project of the people about the most trusted source of information about political campaigns on television. Most people cited the news buddies the evening news, not cable news, thirty two percent of a role among Republicans. It was twenty nine percent compared to thirty five percent of Democrats and thirty one percent of independence, but the real divide stumped become clear when we compare trust in case. Cable news between potties twenty nine percent of Republicans say they trusted cable news compared to just thirteen percent of Democrats. That's a massive twenty two percent of draw from the number of Democrats who said they trust the evening news. There is some cross party agreement on the small screen, but not much and probably not where you might expect. According to a study conducted in twenty sixteen by the consumer research them eople the most popular fictional program. Watched by both Democrats and Republicans was supernatural a long running duck fantasies series about brothers who bettle demons it ranked first among Republicans and third Democrats, the big bang theory and the Walking Dead also bring highly but the similarities largely, and then if as many have said button politics is becoming more and more about identity and how we see us. Selves, it seems that divide is reflected just as strongly by what we watch as it is by how vote famo- news and analysis. Tune into monocle twenty live daily programing catch up by you'll food podcast platform. This program was edited by Kenya. Scarlett, I'm Ben Ryland. That's monocle reports. Goodbye.

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Trump and Coronavirus; Waste Disposal in Times of Social Distancing

The Dave Gram Show on WDEV

1:37:24 hr | 1 year ago

Trump and Coronavirus; Waste Disposal in Times of Social Distancing

"From Radio Vermont. It's the Dave Graham. Show on W. DV. It's your show about the people places and the issues that matter the most to you. Now here's your host Dave Graham. Good morning it is Tuesday April the Twenty Eighth Twenty Twenty Full. Show lined up for you this morning. Would it be talking to a little bit of politics? Cove nineteen president trump etcetera with a Matt Dickinson a political science professor at Middlebury College and occasional guest on the Dave Ramsey. Show here in the first half hour. Dan Richards it'll be joining us next. He is Former president of Vermont Bar Association of very active attorney based in my pillow and a frequent guest program are sort of legal analyst. We liked to call him and he's got an interesting case. There was just a court ruling yesterday about a A man up county who was importing facemasks from China and selling them quite a markup to hospitals in Vermont and The attorney general argued that this was price gouging and the judge. has agreed so. We're GONNA be talking with Dan. Richardson about that case. In the second part of the show and then later on Josh Kelley joins me. He is a Actually I should say I Elina Trine of access will be visiting with us. briefly at the top of the hour. Talking about what's going on out there on the national scene She's one of our our new up and comer national correspondents. We've been going to With axios terrific online website and Dan I'm sorry In the last Part of the show Josh Kelley will be joining me. He is with the Department of Environmental Conservation. is kind of oversees. The waste issues. They're all different kinds of trash and recycling programs and alternative recycling we we do in Vermont and so on and He's going to be talking about some changes that have been put in place in those programs Related to the Kobe nineteen crisis and trying to increase that social distancing and make sure that He do not pass on any viruses catch anti-viruses in the whole process of getting rid of household waste. And so one so. That'll be an informative conversation. I'm sure as well in the second hour of the program but let's Start off with Matt. Dickinson mentioned at Middlebury. College teaches political science. There and Good Morning Matt. Thank you so much for joining me morning date but I had to be with you and I wanted to Just sort of review sort of some of the events of recent days The president is is Cease to be in a little bit of hot water over some of his Activities at these daily briefings on the cove in nineteen Last week he got a lot of heat for Allegedly making reference to the possibility of injecting disinfectants effort of treating the Kobe in nineteen Emili A lot of trump supporters went into overdrive Trying to defend him and and and say that this is all just media hype and I'm wondering what was your take on. All of that of you think that That was overblown by the media was inaccurate reporting. Was it fairly accurate reporting and just a verbal stumble by the President or. Was it not much at all? Well I think the comments were accurately reported. I mean it was hard to get the story wrong. It was If you're watching these press briefings it was pretty clear what he said Whether it was overplayed or not I think misses the point. Which is the briefings are supposed to be doing? Two things one is update the public on the you know. The status of the corona virus The efforts by the government to handle it but also to reassure And when a president makes a comment like that It just feeds the new cycle and it step sent his own message and So you know whether it was overblown or not it's something at this point Trump and certainly his advisors a half to insert a certain amount of discipline these Re things are gonNA abroad purpose and I think you know there was some talk Immediately about whether the president should be doing this and if you saw his last one yesterday much more disciplined he stayed right. I message but you know. Historically he's just unable to do that it does seem that he He does let himself kind of meander around various issues and and some of them really seeing rather tangential he could send to these little personality fights with people and of course the overall news media in general. Do you think he has any legitimate complaint? I mean our reporters really showing much ideological bias. Or they out to get him or are they being unfair to him or are they sort of responding to to very unusual Performance by president. I mean the president has always been a symbiotic sort of love. Hate relationship between the national media and the press They need each other but they come to This joint news venture from different perspectives. The president wants his message out there. relatively unfiltered with focus on only the good news. The media's job is to get beneath that in and speak to what they think is the underlying issues. I think what's different? Social Media has short news cycle to such a degree that There's a hyper competitiveness out there in the traditional news sources over the last couple of decades or just hemorrhaging money In the ones that have survived in this landscape like New York Times and the Washington Post have done it by adopting a more. Overtly adversarial position so I think there are some legitimacy here from trump's perspective that the media seems even more Willing to you know. Speak Truth to power in a way that maybe distorted the message but frankly It goes both ways. President trump more than in any previous president. I think Absolutely relishes these types of Adversarial sort of Confrontations on television calling. I mean just basically calling reporters fake news to their face and then refusing to take questions for them and that Really plays to his base so I think both parties are playing a role here. And I mean I. I wonder though whether this is Is a disservice in terms of The the news media do have an important role to play in our society. And you know I'm I'm a reporter by background and training and spent thirty years working for more than thirty years working for the Associated Press so You know I'll confess that bias or you know urged the newsmedia right up front but I do think they perform an important role. And if and if president trump succeeds in peeling off a significant share of of society which basically dismisses the entire mainstream media out of hand. is that healthy for democracy. But I don't think it is. I mean part of the issue here is in this and and you have more experience than anybody here. So I don't need to tell you this with this pressure of Short news cycles. There is a sense that major news stories Although infrequent still he'll be afforded inaccurately and it just takes one or two high profile incidents for that to happen for trump and his supporters to try to dismiss all news media coverage and I just think that's not good for the news media. It's not good for democracy You know you you do not want. It's one thing to push back on a specific story and the president say that's unfair and perhaps the news media agreeing in correcting it. It's another to push back against the actual legitimacy of the role of a news outlet and reporting politics on a day to day basis. Calling them fake news. I think he's not It is really not good for democracy and In in the case of the Of these remarks the other day You know the heat sort of strange presentation the president put on. I mean I watched it several times and I I sort of thought. Well he's turned toward where Dr Burkes is sitting and he he could be sort of musing out loud there And I and I I wondered though I mean that's very different strategy. What you normally get from a from a president in my lifetime normally their their remarks are very well scripted and prepared and oftentimes. They're just reading off a teleprompter but even even in cases of Big intake with the with the press corps they sort of have prepared answers and so on talking points etc and here we have this president who is musing out loud about maybe. I don't have the exact words in front of me but sort of speculating that maybe you could. And it's worth checking out this idea that you could use. A you can inject disinfectant just for one example. Y'All also talked about using light and heat and so on but And and it seemed to be. That's what really Resulted in a lot of a lot of the the joking. And the SNARK and stuff out there about You know clorox and Lysol Etcetera and and I just it's it struck me that a smarter move might have been too if you really have a question like as you know. Is it possible to to use something like disinfected in the treatment of a virus and the lungs? Well I I would. I would probably save that question for a private meeting with Doctors Burks burks and Fao g your whoever else the the experts and say you know. Let's talk about this behind the scenes before we roll it out at a news conference What does that make sense? Perfect sense I mean the I think what Donald Trump has failed to grasp. Is that when you are in the bully? Pulpit the words that you speak As president matter more than the words that you speak as private citizens Donald Trump or mega celebrity donald trump And you you have. There comes a certain responsibility here and burks. You heard her express her frustration that the media was still running with the story. Forty eight hours later. I understand her rush. Bachchan because it detracts from the serious issues that she's trying to get across but it's not the media's fault You know that it's the then. She tried to explain it. Well he likes to think out loud. You can't think out loud as president of the country when you're on the national stage in your holding a press conference to set parameters about what is and what is not feasible in terms of dealing with the krona vibes. You just can't do that. You have a responsibility To to measure your words carefully and realize their implications and Donald Trump has not to this point exercise the kind of discipline that typically associated with being present. The the other thing that I think even more Makes that point? More important is that we're talking about illness here. In which patients can you know? Get into a very desperate situation in their families are in this very desperate situation. They are in try anything mode. And they hear the president of the United States. Make any kind of reference you know. Use the words disinfectant and injection in the same sentence and and there's a tendency to runner that and so that's why we saw news reporting including in places like Fox News over the weekend that public health agencies and from Maryland California. Were getting hundreds of phone calls from people asking about. Hey is this. Is this for real? Can we think about Using disinfectant and injecting it to fight the corona virus. And I. I just think that when you when you think about the individual families out there and patients who are in these absolutely desperate you know frankly sometimes last hours of life They are and try anything mode and and I think it's a real tragedy to to put these ideas out there without them being as thoroughly vetted as possible ahead of time. I mean that's that's part of. That's a big part of the problem here. Hardly to social media we talked about earlier. Amplifies that tendency because NIP conversations can get repackaged circulated And purport to be You know legitimate The president is even back this solutions. And as you said that unfortunate impact and You know I think I think that there really is. There's a duty here which I wish the president would think about it and that is that is this idea of of really trying to put out information that's helpful. I mean the the media will do what the media will do. We have the First Amendment and freedom of speech and social media are under under the First Amendment as well and you know they they have less of frankly duty and you see the incredible wide range. Some of them. Some media will report the stuff just absolutely straight on his will say You know this is a crazy idea from the get-go and we're not gonNA we're really going to downplay it And and I think you know. The ranger media include joking on late night. Tv when the COMEDIANS come out at eleven thirty and start making fun of the idea of injecting. Some kind of disinfectant to fight a an illness. That whole range of stuff will happen and to me the real problem. The seat of the problem is not and I just saw media get bashed over and over again all weekend and I mean they seem to be the favourite the favorite whipping child of You know even people who are writing appear to be fairly serious op. Ed Columns the But I you know the first person in this case to use the words disinfected in action in the same sentence was the president of the United States. You know you have been in this business long enough to know that the businesses undergoing the media business at a tremendous transformation and there's huge financial pressures having said that you know the alternative For All the media bashing here is a system without any independent corroboration or efforts to assess what our elected leaders are doing And I think of the options You know the current system in which we have a media however flawed. It is the state. Run you know information service. Which sometimes you get the feeling. Some politicians would prefer I I'll take the flawed media any day. Yeah and and I guess the thing to remember about it also is it is not it is not all one thing I think a lot of people sort of see the media as this model isn't Monolithic Force And you know we are. I mean even to the point of I I know this is a total rearguard action Pretty much given up on the idea of media being a plural down in the we should use plural verbs with it. You know the media are instead of the media is And and I've in the past argued that people worry about over-concentration about you know when when when Time Warner by buys whatever other big media company people get nervous about too much power in one ownership. Well once we get to where we can really legitimately say the media is. I don't know maybe if Fox News and the new republic will be under the same ownership or something but the Anyway a little bit of a little bit of a tangent there. I wanted to ask you Also Matt Dickinson Middlebury College Political Science professor. Look ahead to the general election which is not that far off in the future. I mean it's the way time times and a war right now but but How does all this translate there? Do you think that I mean we see that. The trump's poll numbers are down some Does he still have a chance of pulling it out? is some of this going to be a question of what the alternative is or. Tell me what your thoughts are currently. Well we're in uncharted territory. With Corona virus historically presidents who are in their first term representing party that had been out of the White House for two terms. Have an advantage We know that usually boost their reelection chances. Also when the economy was doing well we also know the incumbent. President tends to benefit from a good economy So he had a couple of structural factors working his way. But if you heard Kevin Hassett yesterday say we are on the verge of you know in economic recession. That'll curdle your hair with unemployment levels at the second quarter. Gdp not seen since the Great Depression Now some other advisers are pushing back on that well second quarter. Gdp numbers are often a very good telltale indicator of the upcoming election. And if those numbers track what previous elections have done Donald TRUMP is doomed. But what we don't know is A whether voters are going to treat this economic downturn in terms of voting the way they have done in previous elections. I mean how much blame can you give the president for an economy? That's gone south because of measures designed to you know restrict the flow of the corona virus. It's nobody really knows. And the second thing is a lot of advisers are saying. Yeah the second quarter just going to dismal but when you get into that third quarter just in the month right before the election we're going to see signs of an economic upturn sort this v-shaped economic Sort of trend now. Who knows that? That's going to come true but if it does you might make the argument. That trump will sort of benefit. From the rebound. And of course the other factors. You point out Is Joe Biden. The presumptive nominee is struggling A little bit here with some issues dealing with a former aide this story about Whether she was sexually harassed and I was just beginning to gain traction. We know how that's going to play out so I'm less confident to your day than I would have been in previous elections that I can say we're pretty sure based on forecast models. This is how this is going to turn out. I just think there's a lot of uncertainty out there. Yeah and I mean that is. It's got to be maddening. Time for a political scientist like yourself who does have sort of formulas I guess from past elections. And so on where you can look at as you were just as you were just doing you. Were kind of going through. What side of me like your your. Your you know the excise that is common to your profession And and And yet none of that really applies here or at least if it does apply at all we don't know exactly to what degree and to what degree these other forces this weird pandemic in the and weird economy resulting from it are are going to be factors so I guess it is. It is pretty difficult to read. I do. I do wonder whether the president though even you know we've talked about the external factors there but but let's go back for a moment to his his own case And and ask whether To what degree his own. Some of his own behaviors may may hurt him. I mean this is GonNa be the only impeached president right ever to seek reelection and and that right. There is kind of an amazing fact Now back his supporters will dismiss. That out of hand is just saying that was a that was a political hatchet job by the Democrats etc. But they were they were able to muster enough case at least to to to get an impeachment done There there is all the stuff out there I just finally got finished reading Crime and progresses fascinating book by former Wall Street Journal reporters went on to found G. FUSION GPS and And it kind of goes back to the whole The role of Michael Cohen. You know all the the whole story of Russia Russia's involvement in two thousand sixteen election so one and and and it just struck me that it's amazing how all of the in the country these days I mean. It's it's all focused on corona virus. It seems as though we have completely forgotten all of this other stuff out there. You know the fact that this This this administration and the campaign that brought it to office Had Twenty seven criminal convictions by November. Less than three years in office. That's a pace never been exceeded in in US history. Not even by by the Nixon administration and these these are convictions. Not by the iron they are speeches by Adam Schiff their their actual findings by an independent. Judiciary I I just find that to be amazing. It's getting no attention. What's up with that right? Well this is part of the corona virus impact sort of all corona virus. All the time as we get into the general election The opposition candidate Joe Biden is going to make his case in part by always when incumbent president is on the ballot it is referendum on his his actions in those issues. You've cited will come up. They are not going to affect the bases you. They've already played that out and found you know made their decision and I could really drive. Hardcore Partisan Democrats closer to Biden. They're already wedded to him. We're looking at is in ten states You know roughly ten percent of the voters whose votes are up for grabs and the issue that you bring up that I think most crucial here is. Is there trump fatigue? I mean is the constant on Daily battle between trump and the media divisive comments. At what point does the public just those independent voters? Who are going to the voting booth. Do they get tired of this? Do they get tired of the constant constant controversy and if so will Joe Biden proved to be a safe reassuring? Steady hand alternative. I think that's the crux of this question This election is going to turn out how that that ten percent answer that question. Do you think that To the extent that Biden might try to Reinvigorate or fan the fan whatever sparks left of the whole Corruption issues surrounding trump. Does he have enough of his own problem that that maybe that'll be less effective effective for him I it depends on how it's framed. I think his strong suit is experienced stability professionalism normalcy I think if he runs on that As an alternative to sort of the circus show that has been surrounding trump since he announced his candidacy. that place to. Biden's favor if you get into the gutter on specific details you know. Trump is a counterpuncher You will you will come out And throwing everything he's got at every aspect of Biden's campaign so I often tell my students you know. One of the questions they candidate has to ask is how I WANNA frame. The Narrative Biden might be better off. Framing this is. I'm not going to get down there in the gutter You know calling trump supporters deplorables and Sort of running ads about all the statements he's made that did not work for Hillary Clinton I might instead try to get above the fray and contrast my statesmanship approach to Donald. Trump's more You know in your face approach. That may be the stronger way to go about it here. Yeah I think Biden could probably some of his if he if he has actually supported by facts which I think it is but maybe his some of his advantage two words which is fewer tweets. I mean you know. That's that's one of the amazing aspects of this. President is the fact that so much. What he doesn't says is on this fairly still fairly new social medium that that frankly is just sort of built for controversy and and I don't know whether that's ever going to be repeated in the same way I kind of I kind of doubt it at least in the near future and so we'll have to see whether that return to normalcy idea is clearly Clearly one that might work for Biden so all right. Well we'll have to see how it all plays out. We can prognosticate all Dave. Oh we don't have all the. Hey Matt Matt Dickinson. The our political science professor Middlebury College. I want to thank you so much for joining me this morning. It's always good talking with you. I'll even pleasure dead already. We're going to head to head into a bottom of the hour break for some. Cbs News a couple words from our sponsors When when we return we'll be talking with our legal analyst. Dan Rix it's about a case of case of price gouging. And what is price gouging? Did it occur here? We'll hear from Dan about that and we'll be back from US Lawson's finest classic clothing and cutting edge fashion. Are you sandwiches and grab and go meals toys? A wide selection of Rosa jewelry accessories quarter pound cookies and even more beer. The Yankee magazine doesn't call us the best one. Stop Shopping Vermont for nothing. The warrants store we're funky friendly in almost world famous newsradio. Wd Ev FM and am now back to the day. Bram show stay with us in the Second. Half Hour of our program this morning and We have One of our Frequent guests on a Dave Graham. Show Dan. Richardson is our legal analyst. He's a former president president of the Vermont Bar Association and a very active attorney in my ear and Actually now my city councillor. I do believe Dan Richardson. Thank you so much for joining me. My pleasure Dave and we were talking yesterday about A few different Legal issues and so on one of which just breaking news It was this case out of Chicken and county In which a An entrepreneur shall we say was Importing facemasks from China For Use by healthcare workers and then reselling them at quite a markup I I think I saw in Viga Dot Org that This markup was about twenty four hundred zero one hundred percent. I don't know if you've done the math and being able to confirm that but that That got the attention to the attorney general. Who called price gouging and Case goes to court and tell us what happened sure So what happened was he turned. General brought an action against this Person Shelly Palmer who's actually runs the security business But had been selling masks to central Vermont Medical Center in other places but specifically he's allegations were about Central Vermont Medical Center Assembling Surgical Masks at two dollars and fifty cents per mask And the Attorney General Had come across paperwork that had indicated these masks. Were about ten cents. A piece that That that was the base price that Mr Palmer had paid There's some dispute. Mr. Plumber has Alleged that that that's incorrect that was more for Terrif- purposes To avoid tariffs than anything else but even if you take his numbers which range anywhere from about fifty five cents to a dollar as his base price investment You know doubling that rice in or you know doubling it and a half Getting to the to fifty per mask is a pretty substantial markup and so the Attorney General brought the action under consumer fraud. Act which prohibits unfair methods of competition in commerce and unfair deceptive acts or practices in this would fall under a deceptive act or practice and The consumer fraud is one of those statutes that actually you know. There's a few statutes in Vermont. Books that have a stated purpose and The Vermont Consumer Fraud Act a public records and public meeting acts. Both have they'd purposes. Which usually is what lawyers spend a Lotta time fighting about like what is the intent of this law and consumer fraud. Act Pretty Clear Front that this. It's intended to be liberally construed as a way of protecting consumers and enforcing you know various trade regulations so that we don't have you know the sort of a caveat emptor kind of marketplace where anybody can do anything And in this case you know price gouging during a crisis Is is considered an unfair act. And what happened was is so initial. Complaint was filed but emotion for preliminary injunction was filed. With which is basically asking the court to say Put a hold on this. Make him stop doing this right now. We may not get to the rest of the case for a while but for the very least. This is a critical situation. You GotTa Stop It. And the courts are usually very reluctant to enforce a preliminary injunction. You'd have to show certain number of Elements which include you know likelihood of success on the merits that when we get to this case from where we sit today the prevailing party getting the injunction is likely to prevail irreparable harm. Meaning not just money. It's it's harm and damage to somebody society. It's the often you get free luminary injunctions when somebody's about to cut down trees that are on disputed property because once you cut down the trees it's GonNa be one hundred years before. They grow back and most remark cases. Don't last quite that long So you know those things are the preliminary injunctions and so in this case Judge Tore up and Shannon Superior Granted the preliminary injunction and gave him the gave Attorney General You know the the power to stop the sky from Selling these masks that these high prices and so he may still sell the masks. But it's the price has to be monitored by the attorney general so what? These findings indicate is that the judge clearly believe that this was in fact. An unfair practice in this was that price gouging itself was A fit within the Consumer Fraud Act which is somewhat new law in Vermont. We haven't had price-gouging cases You know there was an effort In Federal Court to try and and go after gas purveyors because of price unfair pricing That settled out of court But this is really one of the first where you've got a a court actually making a ruling That this type of price gouging in these types of circumstances unfair and Unfair Act or practice under the consumer product the The the judge said selling crucial personal protective equipment desperately needed to save lives during a health. Emergency at eight twenty four hundred percent markup is an unconscionable act in violation of public policy You Know I. I'm I'm Kinda curious about this whole thing because I just look at the sort of normal workaday life of going out shopping for various products that I think about what I pay versus. What what the What was paid at the wholesale level or what was paid at the manufacturing level for inputs? And so on and so forth and I mean here I'll just use one example that I find kind of amazing and that is that is Bottled water water historically has been rather inexpensive commodity and And yet you can go to a convenience store and buy plastic bottle of twelve ounce bottle of water and it's like two bucks. I'm like really and to me. You know that there's a case of everybody needs water and sometimes you know. I'll be stopping at the convenience store and I'm very very thirsty. And water is a fundamental necessity of life and so here am but the cooler and I'm going to pay two bucks for this plastic bottle of water. You know that probably cost to for somebody to take out of the ground You know Thousands of gallons of it would cost less than two dollars. Am I on something there? Well yes and no I mean you know this is. This is where the difficulty in this is actually where the defendants defense laid at this a little bit. Which is you know to a certain extent price-gouging people will will pay for it Yeah you see this. Also with pharmaceutical where you know drug stops being generic for a period of time and and goes up in price or new owner decide a lot ramp up the price alive. You know insulin or Gal medication those kinds of things that can just all of a sudden spike in price because a are commonly used the you know and that's not to say that there that's that's okay or that's kosher It's it is to say that it just is the difficulty In part of trying to regulate supply and demand in the in what is generally a free market. You know going back to what I was saying. Caveat emptor I mean laws like consumer protection laws are in are you know. They're designed to put some guard rails on the marketplace but they aren't intended to regulate the market place in the micro sense. They're really intended to take out the worst of the worst the bad actors And so in the you know in the normal case you can have a markup and supply and demand situation where you know. That's simply what the market requires. I mean think about like concert tickets that have gone. You know through the roof that have a extensive amount of markup. I mean there. There have been threats to challenge some of that as unconscionable or an unreasonable In this particular case I think why the court was able to so clearly make this ruling. Isn't part that you know this is a market what we call a market emergency and it's actually defined by statute Within the Consumer Fraud Act. And so you know because there is this critical situation. Wear masks are in high demand As a matter of life and death this type of markup that's occurring does does violate that Because of this shortage of of supplies and you know you've seen you've seen some of that with like hand sanitizer toilet paper where Pto who tried to hoard and sell it markup have been shut down and so this is a similar creature up that him speed hand sanitizer. I saw a funny Meam online a couple of weeks ago where we're the. I think it was a supermarket in Denmark was Willing to sell a single bottle of hand sanitizer for four zero nine. I think that's in euros. And if you wanted to bottles who's going to be ninety six dollars or ninety six heroes. The Anti Anti Hoarding Price structure there. I don't know what I got a belly laugh out of that one Let's Oh I thought we had a caller in linebacker bill in Wakefield Bill. You're welcome call back if you like And and By the way Four that reminds me two four four one seven seven seven is our is our call in number here at wd. That's the local number in Waterbury in our toll free number one eight seven seven to nine one eight two five five and as always we welcome welcome listener phone calls. Somebody's takes us a few minutes to get you on the air. So be patient folks occasionally. We're one of our guests is in the in the middle of thought and I like the wait until is an end of a paragraph or whatever but occasionally. We've got to wait all the way through a breaker or something. But patients Oftentimes is rewarded with an ability to get your thoughts or questions onto our air here on the day Graham show. Wd And so Just a word wise And and Dan Richardson. I'm wondering is this is this. I think you mentioned when we talked about this yesterday. That There was some precedent cited in this case. And it's kind of an unusual thing. I think what the president involved a involved. The same party is that right. Correct Wel- Mr Palmer has been before the court before he was a bail bondsman And Heart of the question here was dealt with you know testimony at a preliminary injunction hearing and there is an in rape Palmer Case out there that attorney general cited For the principle that he could be called as a witness at this preliminary injunction hearing Which is unusual Usually you don't have the ability to cite a case Featuring the the person against to your Now seeking to impose this particular legal principle on it occurs every now and then But this is you know this is part of the unique situation now the AG might argue that you know it goes to show that this is a person who has a history of actions that have caused him to come before the court In the past which may go to you know the nature of his activity that you know someone who should know better or certainly has experience or has done bad axe pass which you know there are limitations. As to what type of conclusion you can draw from that but It's a clever way to bring that in and bring it to the courts attention because that's public record. That's a case law that you can look up site freely in court And you know it's it's one of those those small ironies that come out of practicing in a small state sometime that th that is actually kind of fascinating now this this previous case involving Mr Palmer and his role as a bail. Bondsman talkers alluded a little bit. About what that case was if you recall the details at all sure You know essentially this was A objection about you know. He was being disciplined On an administrative level For his licensure that he had failed. Indiana pattern. You know. Supreme Court wrote that based on some really bad incidents they recite and the decision. That defendant had a pattern of misconduct over the years And that the hearing officer had concluded that he engaged in financially irresponsible conduct. And Untrustworthy Cave. You're in violation of the statute governing. Bail bondsman And had his license suspended issue on appeal and. I'm just refreshing my recollections. We as we talk It was really a question of whether he had Engaged in unfair trade practices By improperly withholding his clients funds Charging his clients a premium surcharge without a painting department approval And violated the laws on premium financing finding forfeiture on on default provision into a sale bond agreements that greatly exceeded the delinquency charges allowed under statute Yeah and so you know. Basically upheld his His his suspension of of his bail. Bondsman licensor And you know in that respect The you know. The court found that he had engaged in these activities that that largely would have taken A similar tax in in in in respect to this case which is that he was taking too much money from his clients. And that's the way bail bond. They'll binding works. You know you have to You you're basically acting as a shirty for people to show up in court and If if they don't you're putting up some of the money that is put as a penalty in in such situations And but you set it up so that you know bail. Bondsman aren't charitable Actors there in that to make profit and you know it's it's it's regulated and it has certain limitations and he was found to have wildly exceeded those those those limitations and so in in the court findings You know that was That was one of them but the other point and probably perhaps more relevant point. Why have been cited? Was that You know had been He had been called to testify And he you know he said that it violated You know his or actually that Sorry he had been He said that the regulations violated the United States Constitution ability to make the right to make contracts In the court rejected that that we can regulate these things You know there's a certain trend here about You know he seems to be an actor who works a little outside of the system or you know works in these regulated fields and runs afoul when His actions or decisions Running contrary to some of the regulatory Rules is seems to indicate and simple laypersons terms the the the pattern of behavior There might be an element here of just basically charging too much. It sounds like he's not taking too much money off in the course of the business. You know I certainly wouldn't you know that's something I think That both of these decisions and why they were probably cited. And so you know you when you have a decision like this involving the same defendant You know a lawyer is GonNa try and find any way to cite it in in a subsequent case that that's that's that's interesting and and I know I know that there's a there's some evidentiary rules on re that limited the ability of the lawyer to sort of introduce past actions by a defendant or whatever in some cases is that right. Yeah are you know. They're the rules do prevent You know you can't for example if somebody's on the witness stand and they are a They have a prior conviction or Breaking and entering and the but the issue here today is you know this price gouging. They they couldn't say we want to bring forward evidence of his prior breaking and entering in a hypothetical situation You know where they're being alleged to have committed some other type of some type of fraud Because the the rules of evidence do not allow that Because it doesn't mean anything. It doesn't mean if the person had a prior conviction that they're likely to have committed or have more likely acted guilty manner in a subsequent event So you know in some ways. Citing cases is a sneaky way around that kind of That kind of limitation. Because it's not I mean it for that purpose yeah and and and inciting this case I mean is interesting to me that this this kind of gives you the punches your ticket if you want to cite the case because of the By virtue of the fact that it is captioned with this person's name and it's a part of the the you know the records at the courthouse. You can write. You can sort of see how Oh Yeah I'm GonNa go grab that one just I'm just gonNA mention it as possibly supporting You know the point. I'm trying to make in this case because Gee Whiz Familiar name there at the top of it. So right That's that's interesting tactically for a for a lawyer prosecutor in this case to To try to Try to get that in front of judge. So yeah the thing though I mean I think the important thing to keep in mind is that you know this is not a situation that this kind of Gamesmanship with necessarily I mean it's a IT'S A. It's a funny little side feature but I think really in judge tours decision you know. It's it's clear that you know selling reselling. These masks at this much of a markup is just something that the court was clearly uncomfortable with and you know I. I don't think you need this case To necessarily make make the case against Mr Palmer in this particular situation. They seem to The court seem to be fairly comfortable with the with the basic facts but it is it is one of those little colorful side. Sidebars as it were yeah. I don't think the case would not have been decided differently if if that if that caption had not been found in and inserted into it. I'm I think what What the point is there Sharon and but it tells the case being decided I mean it really goes back to this It seems as though it might have been influenced to some extent By the kind of a condition on the demand side and And if you if you focus on the condition on the on the demand side The gets to here. We are with a health. Care Workers Who are really under under duress right now. They need personal protective equipment badly. There are many many instances we see in being reported in the media where it's in very short supply and the hell the nurses and other healthcare workers are having to wear the same facemask for days in a row etc etc And these are these are huge as you say life and death issues And so you don't really have a more I if you're going to if you're the judge looking at at a At a potential price gouging case it's hard to imagine a more sympathetic demand side. Right now would you I I I would you know I mean And that's and it fits squarely within the statute does talk about these sort of emergency situations And given that. You're you're talking about masks or healthcare workers You know this is certainly some. In any type of crisis situation there emerged. Sort of these You know figures that are Either deemed as heroes or that. Are you know people that have clearly sacrificed In these things and so anything that's seen as you know going hurting them or Taking advantage of them You know is is something that's Clearly frowned upon. You know it'd be it. Would you know so in that respect? I think you know I think that's where the courts coming from in this decision as it would be different. If you know this I think in some ways you know social media might might shame somebody But it might not rise to illegal activity if they were doing markup on toilet paper and selling out of a backup there Car Yeah or another type of situation you know we've seen things were people have shame those people and social media but there hasn't necessarily been Substantial legal actions taken. Because you know somebody some private actor selling toilet paper because they've you know hoarded a bunch of it. That's one thing and I think the the market allows to a certain extent some of the actors to take advantage of things. But you know when somebody's SORTA gets into the crosshairs like this in a very public way You know that's often where the attorney. Whoever is the regulatory agent can't necessarily ignore them? I mean it just becomes there'd be dereliction of duty in some respects not to investigate or take action if they feel that they had the Evidence to support it as they didn't escape well and sure enough. The judge ruled in favor of the attorney. General on this one and stronger was told Cut It out basically So there we go Dan. Richardson is when my guest. He is Our legal affairs analyst and this one One of the more prominent attorneys in practice these days in my future former president of Vermont Association. Dan Thank you so much joining me this morning. My pleasure Dave and We're going to go to a top of the hour break for some. Cbs News here of the Dave Ramsey show wd FM and am and when we return we'll be talking to one of our friends axios and then get into trash with Josh Kelley of the Department of Environmental Conservation. Stay with US folks. There's comfort in the familiar but when light presents us with something exciting we just have to embracing with so many of our neighbors producing such wonderful products. We just have to show and tell the world come in and see for yourself. The old standbys alongside the new changes. Good the one thing that never changes is our commitment to making your visit a great experience the warrants store where funky friendly and almost world famous. It's the Dave Ramsey. Show w thanks for staying with us in the second hour of our program on this Tuesday morning April the Twenty Eighth Two thousand and twenty and one of the things we like to do after the mid show break is to bring in one of our regular national correspondents who get on the program here. A helpless broadened the lens beyond remorse borders and look at. What's going on nationally and help us helping us do that. This morning is Elena. Trine of of axios dot com terrific online news website. That's well worth a look by folks out there. You should definitely check them out. Very tightly written stuff Right down the middle no discernible flu bias left or right and just Excellent journalism so Elena trine thank you so much for joining me this morning. Yes thank you for having me gave and tell us a little bit about what the headlines are an axios today So lots of headlines. Today we've been looking at The new P P P program that was replenished last week the Patek the paycheck protection program to help small businesses as in the last few hours. We've actually seen a Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin say that. A lot of the people who gotten these loans Over two million They're going to be doing an audit Eventually to see whether they deserved that. Loan or not. And that was spurred by places like. Ruth's Chris and shake shack and we saw the Lakers All receiving millions of dollars in small business emergency funding And of course a lot of people in you know a lot of people have small businesses across the country are getting shut out because some of these bigger places are taking that funding and so That's kind of our big focus and axios. Am Our lead newsletter off. Yeah and and also this geographic distribution really imbalanced. You might say access is reporting about where it plays late Nebraska Get a big share of of the loans under the payroll of Protection Program Meanwhile New York and California Which both are relatively hard hit by the corona virus Are are not doing as well. What what's behind that? Did we think So we have they. They said that qualifying firms in states like New York and New Jersey are actually less likely to have long standing relationship with community banks And that seemed to make a big difference and who's getting a share of of the three hundred fifty billion that what is most recently allocated to help small businesses and the reason with that I covered closely the negotiations on the hill in this in this latest interim funding bill that allocated billions of dollars to this program and In the first round of the P. Program a lot of the small business community banks were not having a chance to fight with the bigger banks over how to lend and so before we saw a lot of the big banks being able to dole out more money to companies that had existing relationship. Now we're seeing States and small businesses who Don't have relationships with maybe a smaller community bank getting shut out. And so both instances A lot of people saying that they're existing relationships with their bank has really been the key factor in whether they're able to get alone processed or You know except dead quickly as possible so if you bank on Main Street you might be better off than if you bank on Wall Street right now. It sounds like basically one way to describe it. I don't know I I it it's It it's It that is interesting. And and I and I and I suppose You know a lot of people out there around the country or even around our area Vermont's rural state after all you know might be a hearing that and not in their heads a little bit and saying you know if the brakes are going to the smaller places Well that's okay right getting shut out and hearing the headlines with some of these bigger chains across the country getting these small business loans You you you have to root for for the small businesses and some of these underserved communities so might not be a terrible thing. Andrew Cuomo is out with a comment or two about how he wishes he had He had spoken up earlier and louder of out. The Corona virus pandemic and of course. It's had a bigger impact in his in his state. I think than any other and and so What do you? What do you make of this? And and what's what's in it for him to make this sort of a call by a little bit. Yeah so this was We're very fortunate. We launched our new activists on. Hbo Show The new season I should say and it's going to be happening every Monday Every Monday through the rest of the year and we were able to get Governor. Cuomo on the show for last night and I you know I have to say he was Very compelling I think that you see him every day giving these interviews in New York and acting as governor but this was a bit more of a A personal interview about his own handling and I think that he He admitted that there is a lot of things that he wishes that the US in particular had done differently especially Way Back in December when we had been given the warning signs that there was a virus quickly spreading throughout China and he said that he wished leaders across the world including President Trump Had paid more attention to that and just didn't believe the Chinese and they said that they had it under control because clearly they didn't and so It was a very compelling interview and I think one thing that he he showed a little bit over and ability when he said no fifteen thousand people have died. People are dying every day and I can't change that So it was very interesting interview. Yeah and and and I think he actually I mean there's a capacity there for for a little bit of self criticism self reflection or whatever that is Shall we say not universally shared by all of the top leaders in the United States is that is that so what people take away from this? I think that's a fair statement to make I I. Just I haven't heard him say over and over again. We're doing a great job that being Cuomo of course. Yeah we're doing a great job. Yes I think. He's very aware of not being down to a lot of the He's he's surrounded by New York. He's there's more cases in New York and more definitely earth in some countries Around the globe. And so I think he's very cognizant of not saying that they're doing an incredible job they have everything under control because It's definitely been an uphill battle there and so I think a lot of people appreciate that. He's he's not quick to try to have too much of an optimistic view of what's happening when people are dying every day. I have another question about tone because some of the I mean obviously tone is an important factor Ask Any funeral director. This about how they WANNA act around. You know the bereaved relatives of the person. They're they're about to You know they're they're taking care of you know that that it's an important feature and the president's defense the other day of against this All the criticism he took after using the words disinfectant and injection in the same sentence He He came back the next day and said well he was just being sarcastic and you know and I said I said to myself. I don't recall President Bush after nine eleven engaging in any sarcasm or snarky nece or whatever assuming that the president was being sarcastic and C. N. N. says. He's lying about that but I mean assuming that he was is that is that the right stance in the right tone and it was a very bizarre remark and I will say It was very confusing especially for reporter trying to cover it because of the hours after that he had made those comments about in. You know the potential that ingesting disinfecting could be helpful for cleaning belongs We saw people like his new press secretary. Kelly mcenaney come out and say You know not say that it was Kostic and actually say listen. He said that people should talk to their doctors. And people like Deborah Brooks coming online or going on television saying The key thing to remember is that he's saying talk to your doctors and that sometimes he wants these ideas in the middle of a press conference before actually seeing them through and then of course he later said they were so cash. Stich so I give CNN you know. I'm not sure you can't believe whatever whatever the President says you have to take it as his words but I I do have her cavas well believing that he was initially being sarcastic but To answer your question no I mean. I think that the president comes out every day. And there's millions of Americans watching him and listening to him for advice and we've seen in the past when he's floated ideas or some guidance you know what the anti-malaria drug or hydro Warrick seen might be butchering the way. Drowsy chloroquine I believe in it and we saw people we saw people go ahead and take that and I think that that's a very serious thing so if you're going to be making a joke and not making it clear whether you're joking or not especially when you have a country whose in morning and people are dying every day. It's a very difficult thing to not very clear about something as serious as that. That's what really struck me about. This is that we do have a lot of people out there in America right now. Some are patients under on their deathbeds. Others are their family members they are. They're desperate. They're they are in try anything mode. And if they hear even a hint of somebody saying You know disinfectant and injection or ingestion in the same sentence They're going to say What and and sure enough. The health authorities public health of State public health offices around the country then got inundated with phone calls with people enquiring. This is this what we should be doing. And and I just think to raise any hope like that in that regard And only to be. Have it squashed hours later by by The statements coming out from the makers of digs like clorox and Lysol and so on. Please don't ingest our products. I just found that it's so if if trump has this thought I mean you know if if it crosses it his mind maybe we should you know inject your Lysol or something I see him asking that in a private meeting with doctors burks and frau cheese and other experts but not rolling it out at a at a news conference. That's that's just saying. Wow he sent to do that. I mean one thing. He not the marathon press conferences. Every night is that he does float these ideas. Someone one of the doctors in this instance adopter came forward and said was describing the benefit of cleaning products And Fighting the disease. And of course she got hit on surfaces. Not Adjusting at the president took that idea and ran with it And we've seen that happen in some of these press conferences of course We reported on last week. You know and in the wake of that kind of fiasco around the LYSOL disinfectant comments The president and a lot of advisors have been telling him to lay off some of these briefings actually shortened the amount of time that he's spending talking to the media and talking to the press and Pulling back on some of these press conferences so over the next few weeks you should probably expect the president not to come out and speak as long as he has been At these press conferences for that reason well in yesterday's seemed to be more disciplined performance than some of his previous ones. I guess the new rules may already be taking effect here. So we'll we'll we'll see if it if it we'll see if you can stick to them. Let's put it that way. I I don't know well I I will have to pick this up at another time. Elena trine of axios DOT COM. I really appreciate you coming on our air. Wd with us this morning and let's talk again soon. Thank you so much. Stay healthy take one of the one of the effects of more people. Staying around their homes is that Our waste streams are changing. We're generating more of different kinds of trashing. Maybe less of other kinds of trash and What does that mean for our ability to get it all taken care of and and Taken away from our homes and handled properly And in in the realm of solid waste We are in a in a world where we want to be sure that We ARE NOT IN SPREADING CORONA VIRUS TO From from a waste haulers to To their customers or vice versa And so there are some new New Standards and rules being adopted by the state of Vermont on a variety of different aspects Waste Front that Folks need to hear about and It's not the sexy topic in the universe but it is something that is important as a public service here in the Graham show on. Wd FM and am we Wanted to bring in an expert and talk about different aspects of our waste handling habits and how they have changed in need to change the face of the corona virus crisis and joining me this morning to talk about all. This is Josh Kelley He is with the Vermont Department of Environmental Conservation and he oversees A lot of their programs relating to waste disposal in the state and Josh. Thank you so much for joining me a pleasure to be here Dave. Thanks and So let let's talk about a few of these issues here One of it and some of these key off of a couple of news releases issued by your agency in the last couple of weeks and I wanted to catch up on some of this stuff and one has to do with our good old fashioned bottles you know the habit reminders of taking their empties down to the Redemption Center and typically getting a nickel a piece for most of them I guess and Maybe some of them affects a little more than that foot depending on what it is Anyway some of that is Those those habits are changing needs to change. Tell us what's going on on that front sure Well really in response to Grocery stores being essential services And the the the fact that we're all trying to stay home and stay safe. D. C. issued some enforcement discretion allowing retailers the option of whether to redeem bottle deposit bottle bottles and cans. Vermont's bottle Bill Program So that doesn't mean that. In in many places nothing may have changed for you. In Your Redemption Center or your Your grocery store may still be redeeming but it gives them the option To decide whether they do that and really. Dc took that step To allow grocers to focus on essential services stocking shelves Getting food to people who need it keeping their employees safe focusing them on Really just Keeping keeping a Alderman owners fed at this time. So we we have heard from some redemption centers that say. Hey we're still opening. We want people to know where still open so. I wanted to be clear that if you have bottles and cans to re- to return Check Out Your Redemption Center. Many of them are are grateful to have your business. And why you to come in and there are they able to you know when the Redemption Center takes bottles in from customers. Are they able to move them along? The I don't know if you'd call it supply chain or exactly what how you describe it but Yeah obviously that would be a good a great way to describe it and yes they are actually industries that rely on Vermont or is aluminum and Even glass and plastic bottles are really concerned that monitors keep recycling at this time because they make products out of those materials everything from Tissue Paper and toilet paper which we've heard so much about from Vermont. His paper that they recycle To aluminum cans coming right back into new aluminum cans so to keep that supply chain going into restock shelves with new food and drink products in containers. They need they need that material. Okay so So in other words it sounds like the real. The real message is while you told retailers that they have the option of stopping Stopping Redemption Services your Your underlying message is that this all still goes on Smart thing to do for consumers if you want if you have bottles you want to get rid of his call redemption centers still taking them and head on down there if they are. Yeah exactly it really is just to give some flexibility to those groceries that Really feel like they're they're staffing is down and they needed to focus on the central services at this time but absolutely Contact Your Redemption Center. I can't tell you how many people are feeling like they. They're not making the income businesses across the statement. They once were And so that that foot traffic if it can be done in a safe people maintain their distance Many retailers are interested in people Coming in safely and safe Trips in terms of the The habits folks have their own households of of storing these bottles or cans and and And then getting them loaded into the car taking them down to the Redemption Center. Does anything there needs to change in the face of the corona virus? I mean I I would have a hard time imagining people really wanting suddenly to have to start washing all of these things or whatever but I wonder if is is that something that is being advised anywhere or is or is that Is that just kind of meet me? going off the rails here. No I mean I think there's been a lot of discussion about contacts on surfaces as being a threat to spread of corona virus. And I I've I've watched a lot of it because materials are are part in my business that are in what the state overseas. So we've been looking at The latest data. But it doesn't seem definitive yet. There's only some preliminary studies that have been done showing that the virus last longer on things like Plastic than on cardboard but What are we seeing from the CDC And solid waste organizations and Osha have been that traditional Personal protective equipment like wearing gloves Wearing a I protection actually spent almost more importantly from dealing with glass bottles. They can break. And you just WanNa be careful In general from those materials that those things to protect the employee and frequent hand washing good to protect the employees But I would say that it still. It's still early As we're all sort of learning more about this virus and If the a Lotta these bottles and cans have sat for decent amount of time before they get to the redemption center in some cases But I would just say exercise patients at this time with any service provider. You're working with Give them some patients It too because people may not have the staffing that they had And and we definitely want to make sure that People are staying safe at this time. Yeah that's the bottom line. I mean obviously You want you want to be sure of people and people are doing taking whatever steps. They feel they need to take to stay safe. So Even if the even if the step that you see Seems debatable to you or whatever I don't know I suppose you're standing in line waiting for your bottles to be counted and and the person. They're changing their gloves. Or something in there Disposable gloves and and your Oh why are we taking this extra time? No don't go there just As you say. Be Patient and Realize that everybody's adjusting the best. They can to a to fairly difficult Fairly difficult New Set of circumstances We have a whole lot of waste issues to talk about here In the last half hour of the Dave Graham show here. Wd Ev FM and am. I WanNa talk briefly about food. Waste and in a few minutes I wanted to Talk also about the alternative recycling centers around Vermont. That Take stuff. That doesn't go into the normal Recycling Stream and Other other issues that will be Will be in and we'll get into some of those in the last half hour of the program after our bottom of the hour break. That's upcoming with before we go to the break Josh. I just wanted to ask you ask you. Are You Are you folks there in terms of the state? Dc in your division and so on are are you staffed up as normal leased as or. How's how's how's your work? Life changed in the last coup- couple months sure I think for everybody. Nothing's normal any more and that includes the AC so so we are Working from home The entire department There is discussion about. Some of the governor's latest Allowances for some more. Oh services to and that that may include some Field Work for DC but this is really preliminary at this moment I I did just go out and had a social distancing interview with a W C X reporter at her house to install a home conflict kingpin actually ironically getting back to the freeway issue. He was interested in getting set up and and I thought it would be great to film it so we we went out and and she built been and then and then install it. I was just sort of there to stand back and state my sixty infants. It's the new normal. We'll see how it goes got to go to a break. We'll be back with more with Josh Kelley. In just a couple of minutes folks stay with US Lawson's finest classic clothing and cutting edge. Fashion are huge sandwiches and grab and go meals toys. A wide selection of rose a jewelry accessories quarter pound cookies and even more beer. Yankee magazine doesn't call us the best one. Stop shopping in Vermont for nothing. The warrant store where. Funky friendly in almost world-famous all right well we've reestablished contact with Dave and if such a fashion good morning again Dave Warning Dana and we are we are. I think connected now. So that's good and his Josh Kelley. Still with us from our department of mental conservation. I'm here Dave. Excellent sorry about the technical issue there but I wanted to continue our conversation about waste streams in time of corona virus crisis and We I WanNa ask you about the We've talked we've talked a little a little bit about kind of standard recycling. There's also this Something I see in here referred to as additional recycling Which is not stuff that we Put in our in our in the bins that in our case Casella hauls away from the house Every couple weeks but The this this is stuff that we take over to little additional recycling center off of North Main Street and Berry Every few weeks and they've been close to for a while And our business. Overflowing shall we say you? I'm just wondering what are the prospects for getting your air-sea back here? Yeah that's a good question Th the Central Vermont Solid Waste District operates that that center and I think as things ease up a little bit of the Times there. There may be a point at which they reopened I think many of your listeners are used to spring cleaning this time of year and I would just say you know all solid waste managers. Get it we totally get it public or private sector but again. I think that the word patience comes comes in If if a Holler runs a residential route right now. They are pretty flat out because of the residential trash and recycling is way up And if you are a transfer station You know there are certain requirements about social distancing there so you just really WanNa pay attention to what the facility requires to keep Keep your distance from folks and while the state of emergency is still in effect you know. Dc has been encouraging vermonter to really keep things simple at this time You know Focus on the waste that you produce every single day Trash food scraps recycling And bring those to your facilities if you're a drop off customer If you're a curbside customer Really have some sympathy for these. Essential Workers haulers. If you've ever watched what waste does it is a really hands on tough job and There are customers running up hollers last minute trying to give them a PAG trash Don't do that. You really need the social distance from your hall or keep six feet away And some of the services they might have provided before that. We're very hands on you. Know may not be available now. I know a lot of people with going into their sheds. Garages and taking trash and recycling. Out they. They might need to be doing that more at the curve to protect their staff and also to deal with all they're dealing with The uptick in home. Waste So if you can wait on spring clean ounce and types of additional recycling. We're definitely asking folks to to do that. it is a pain because you have to have space and and the and the been seemed to be overflowing in some cases But it is the right thing to do right now as we start to ease into getting back to maybe what I described the new normal or new abnormal. I've heard describe. Yeah that's That is It's a yeah I mean I I guess that's that's the by word here. Then it's patient sent and I guess we can probably scrounge up a second been somewhere and just start throwing that one then eventually when when when things get back closer to normal we'll be able to take care of all that stuff but and and This is in Arche billy so much. Spring cleaning related is just the normal routine In normal times we tended to make the trip over to bury every. I don't know coupla months or something and it's probably been since January now so So you know you've got some stuff built up and and I'm sure a lot of people do in different ways. You know household hazardous waste events very commonly held in the spring. Because you know once were were out of the two feet of snow and sub zero weather. People are ready to to do some things and get rid of some stuff and we totally get that and there are materials that you have to have some value that the manufacturing stream want so. It's it's a balance right now We would just really again like you're saying Patients and Contact Your district calling first year facility before you bring stuff to make sure you understand what their hours are It's the same with Easing into You know curbside pickup at the hardware store. I just did that. The other day. all of us need to have this patients Because businesses want to operate. But we WANNA keep safe at the same time. Yup It's That is that is for sure. In fact The Some of our local businesses are it. It's hard it's it's difficult I had to go to the hardware store and you had the other day and and You know there's a line that keeps up in front of the store and you gotta wait there and then go into the store and And and they're pretty minimally staff these days and so You kind of have to find things on your own or at least I do and And that's that's a different a different picture from what's been the history there and and it's not just any one particular store but I think this is happening in a lot of our retail environments right now and And it isn't it Doesn't it doesn't really make you smile? It's sort of like. Oh Darn I mean. This is kind of a pain but it's also something that we're all just going to have to adapt to you and and and do the best we can for as long as it lasts because There are many alternatives anybody's anybody's offering their Hey let's go to a Let's go to a listener. Who is calling in the Dennis for my morning Dennis? Good Morning No I I you know. I'm not going to be forced to do this because I disagree. With what little food scraps I have just my wife and I I actually feed about five grows that wait for me to throw it out for out pair jarred. I'm not going to And I you want us to stop feeding birds because of the bears. Now what are you going to do in the bears? Come around and I've talked to people that are just not GonNa do this not only forced to do this. So that's my call waiting. What are you what are you? What are you speaking about when you when you say Chris where we're GONNA be forced to do this? What do you mean I'm not gonNA say my meat and get a compost then? I don't WanNa composted around the house. I don't care to do it as long as most of the population. I think I'm we're just hearing from People that want to do it. That's fine but don't force us to do this. Okay well thanks for the call. I appreciate that out because that does get into the next topic that I also wanted to cover with Josh Kelley. Here and and Josh. I understand that The the rules that were to take effect about no more More food waste in the trash as of July first on the is that is that been delayed. Do I have that right? There was a proposal by the EC. Two to delay it but the legislature hasn't taken any action on that at the moment so currently it is still in place the disposal ban on food scraps. July one twenty twenty but for all listeners. I would just say. There are a lot of flexibility in the so for example if people choose to Combos at home They don't have to put meat or meat scraps in their home composts then they can throw those in the trash and that was actually Baked into the law from the beginning from its original passage in two thousand twelve. And then secondly if you bring your trash to drop off which a lot of her monitors do because it saves them a lot of money There are food scrap collection at every single transfer station across the state. So that that services there and it's much more convenient than it ever has been and they accept all food waste and if you start that process what you find is your trash does not smell. It's like it. It's simply different. Been that you're putting this material into And then lastly a lot of curbside services have started up from appeal to Well all the way up to Saint Albans. There are newer residential curbside service pickup options available to folks and then in terms of the The food scraps then. I gather that you recommend some kind of a sealed Pale or something You put those in separate from from your trash and And then when you if you go to the to the transfer station. There's a special bin that you could just empty that sealed container into correct. Yes correct yeah it just five gallon. Buckets is the most common Or all the kitty litter buckets. I've been used a lot for this purpose. Yep Yeah that's uh that's another that's the old reuse part of the reuse recycle reduce taking an old kitty litter container and and using it for your for your food scraps in in terms of the Some folks are starting to install the backyard compost bins themselves We've been doing that for awhile actually and I find that The provides us go great material to put on our next year's Tomatoes or whatever. So that's another option that's available not everybody. There's some people who live in apartments and so I WANNA don't really have the yard space to to start messing around with compost and or don't have the opportunity to mix in the leafy stuff with Yard waste with the food. Waste and so on but Just home composting is another thing. That many Vermont as do I gather that. That's more common here than in many other states. Have you ever seen any any surveys on that or anything Definitely Vermont has a high number of home composting activity among its residents. And I think that's probably tied to our rural nature I think also as a culture you know Vermont or not wasteful. They're they're generally resourceful and that goes with just sort of the Yankee ethic of us it up And I I just WanNa make sure listeners Think about when we talk about food. Waste what we're really looking for first and foremost is that people. Just think about the the waste they might be creating and trying not to create waste at every opportunity so for example We have a website With some great tips called scrap. Food waste Dot Org Scrap Food Dot Org. Is The web. Site has a lot of good information on reducing food. Waste and how you can Saves money at the same time and so that's really where we want reminders to start because I think at these times Saving money and when your home and your cooking a lot You can try out new recipes. You can experience Ways of freezing your leftovers and start getting in different habits. That actually will help you. And your family over time in in One of the other areas that I've seen Material from Your Department Josh Kelley's Department of Environmental Conservation is that There there is Your tips for keeping haulers and waste workers safe and Some of these I think are are are may sound a little obvious to folks who are Who are following the corona virus six distancing and all that but. Tell us what some of those are. Yeah thanks mentioning that so We've definitely heard from haulers that They're stressed at this time. They're worried about their staff. They're worried about their stuff safety. And as I mentioned if you see your your Holler on their day to day route you you look out your window. See them picking up your trash and recycling. They're doing that. Hundreds of stops across the state. And that's very physical and it's Really it's it's close contact work. And so we're asking folks to maintain their social social distancing from haulers. Really not trying to run up and give them last minute materials To bag their trash and make sure it's tied so we don't have loose trash blowing around And and things that that increase the amount of Contact haulers have to have or other wastes. Workers have to have with trash And as they bring out their recycling and trash bins To wipe down the handles even just with a a a bleach mixture Or other disinfectant. Could even just be rubbing alcohol And to wipe them down again when they pick pick them up this just good habits to have these times And furthermore to not put dangerous items into their trash like US motor oil or small Camping propane tanks. We've seen pain. Electric waves for household hazardous waste During the state of emergency it's very important to keep these essential worker safe and to safely store. Some of the dangerous or household hazardous waste until we have more of those Collection services are opening up again And lastly recycling is very important when we talked about their industries really dependent on this manufacturing stream of paper nettle aluminum steel cardboard and plastics to keep recycling. But you have to give your Holler and waste workers and recycling workers the right things. So if if you're putting into your been You know film plastic wrap or plastic bags. Those are not recyclable. And the recycling system in the Blue Bin recycling system they create work for recyclers. They have to climb into the machines and cut the plastic off the sorting machines so that increases their workload and their danger. So recycle the right things and you can. You can find out all the right Info on recycling at VAT RECYCLES DOT COM. That's VAT RECYCLES DOT COM. State's website With recycling information. And also you can get local specific information from your soul district at eight. Oh two recycles dot com. Yeah you know that's actually another another waste stream that One of these days. I'll have to kind of count up the different waste streams that go out about how these days ideally and one is And and we we do this. I think you'll be glad to Josh but If you come home from the grocery store with those sort of laid brown plastic bags or were really any any of those plastic bags that that are grocery stores are typically using these days They actually get collected in a bag and he can. He's one of the bags of sorta collection bag And then they go back to the grocery store right strip. Yeah correct yes Many grocery stores have film recycling. Take back Sort of at the end of the registers in the been For plastic bags like bread bags and and shopping bags That they take back in. Those are often recycled into things like plastic decking lumber We've seen that in a composite decking in many cases Being used for that film material but better yet bring reusable bags once. We're back to more normal times so that you create that waste in the first place But I think for Vermont is there's A lot of time. We're all spending time watching the media watching the news But we have maybe some of US more time on our hands to think about ways than we normally do normally do really busy and so this is the time to learn. Maybe what's recyclable? What's not maybe How to shop differently to reduce waste before it even starts And maybe some of the things. You didn't know you could recycle. Like for instance alkaline batteries. You're single use. Flashlight batteries Maybe changing out your smoke alarm batteries. It'd be a good thing to do at these times. And those are recyclable. Drop off centers so when those become More and more services start opening up you can start learning where you can take that material and again. There's a website where you can go into review all these all these facts together yes. Dt RECYCLES DOT COM is the best plano. That'll have all the all the information. the And and you know I I also am interested. in terms of just. Have you ever counted up the number if you live in an ideal Vermont Hustle? How many different waste streams there are now exiting the house. I'm sort of curious about this now because I think about you. Know the the sort of traditional trash. That's just you know collecting. I don't know what's left not much. And that's one of the one of the interesting perhaps accomplishments and this whole movement here but You know you so you got a one one kind of Exit ramp for your your food. Waste and another exit ramp for your Miscellaneous trashing another exit ramp for your Your grocery store bags that extent using them especially during this corona virus crisis when a lot of stores don't really watch it bring it into your cloths reusable bags and and then et Cetera. I mean it seems like there's how how many how many sort of exit ramps are there for for. The kind of wasted is generated by the typical Vermont Fan. You know I I think a good analogy would be Like a menu. Some people like to have a large diversity of foods that they eat Some nights they might like to take to make Indian food and other night. They're making you know steak and potatoes So everybody has different Likes and I think. Waste of similar you you really can Go really deep on your waste stream and and get into the habit of recycling all different types of materials and thinking about ways to reduce your consumption in multiple ways and we certainly are here to encourage you in that process and so on your solid waste district and alliances in towns But for keeping it simple really. The State is looking for folks to keep recycling at these times To think about how to reduce food waste and if they would like to compost at home they can but it's not required. There are so many opportunities to do drop off of food scraps that make it easy And other than that. It's really up to you like you're things are getting easier easier by the day so you when you paint your house. If you have leftover paint you can bring it back to many hardware stores where you bought it. And it's like they're to the PAINTCARE program But really starting simple as a good way of thinking about less waste not necessarily having folks on zero waste just trying to do Joshua about out of time but I appreciate you all the information that nine one website bt recycled dot Com Josh Kelley Department of our little thank you very much but it fell Wbz FM and am talk. Y'All tomorrow thing. You never built their period.

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#171 Understanding Our Divided Realities (with Jonathan Haidt)

Under the Skin with Russell Brand

14:50 min | 2 months ago

#171 Understanding Our Divided Realities (with Jonathan Haidt)

"Hello and welcome to under the skin from luminary this week. Is jonathan height john. Hi it's bloody brilliant. He's an american surface archaeologist and professor. He's all the righteous mind. Why do people divided by politics. He's got a couple of things that you might really like guys goto open mind platforms dot org which teaches groups. How long bad despite political differences goto heterodox academy dot org which advocates viewpoint diversity and open inquiry at university. Is that a wonderful conversation with him. But the most most keen to share with you. Is this big. What bit gen. Avail protesters being right about something going to include that an elite he goes on to The best talk about protesters. There's talking about lee's meritocratic and the exam passing close enough. This is what kind of content you get on luminary intelligent discussions challenging viewpoints respectfully and Taken and examined you listen more episodes of under the skin from luminary only on luminary subscription podcast network with original shows from your favorite creators including me and jenny. If you consider what she does to be creative rather than disruptive and destructive in some cases when she gave away my email on christmas day good felt that we're about the fluffy thing what was that was a a walked in. And i don't remember anything i remember saying. I know where i was sitting and think about remembering where you're removing how focusing there's a coup- point really close to it. The man was a suppose. I should be happy about that. You can get to nine nine a month with their annual plan. Plus seven day. Free trial to get started. Please visit loom new. Podcasts dot com to start your free trial you will learn from it. There's some wonderful contribution great interviews. And i'm only to my poku under the skin. Loan fantastic content from other brilliant creative trying to achieve a quality with the annihilation of calgary is not successful reasons. That's exactly right in this era where it turns out were never. The boss walks beneath the surface of people with more of the ideas that the finance on history retold. Welcome t russell brand and this game. Where do you said the thing about their. Like the rick devoted machines and the more complex i and largely regarded as unfounded assertions that our site. It is motivation for the capital insurrection. There what i feel. Jonathan is regardless of regardless of what they present an essay they regardless of what people are protesting present. As the reasons. This happened in that happened in there is some legitimacy to what they are saying like. Like what if i were to say. Look we voted for trump and like he of somehow emotionally seems to vibrate on on the level that we Like understand in spite of the fact that in terms of policy there's very little to aid the ordinary americans lives. Like you can point to that many things. I'm sure and a bar. In electing biden we have bought a power. A person who's gonna going to appoint that dude who's works for the arms industry working defense. He's accepted all its lobbying money. So we've been very frustrated. That democracy is directed from the interests of ordinary americans. Now like the fact that they That this is not the way. The argument is articulated in a much more. Got inflections of cunanan. And i an immigration. Shouldn't i don't think undermined the legitimacy of they emotion and in fact if you focus on the of the more baroque an absurd claims then releases us from the important question. What do we do about the fact that there is new idea about how organize more fair justice i e the isn't simply propagate in the interests of the powerful and maintaining interest. Yeah so i would agree that a populist rebellions are usually right about something in fact you know something i say to my students is not everybody is right and there are some people who are truly bad And if it's one person who believes something bizarre there might be a mental illness issue but if millions of people believe something then they're almost surely right about something maybe not in the main thing they say But they're not mentally ill and And they're usually right about something. In fact this dictum is really really helpful in marriage in everything. You know if your spouse is mad at you for something a sure that she's wrong while she's probably read about something even if she's not even if you can prove she's wrong about one thing and so So i think we we have to ask why. How did trump get elected despite his obvious incapacities and problems because as you say he rode this wave he he was able to articulate this You know the the the contempt elite have for the working class Certainly in in my country The elite and i think this would be in the. Uk is to a large extent the exam passing class. The elite since the sixties in both of our countries is based in large part on. How well you did on an exam so before that it was based on who your father was and that obviously is is awful from a democratic perspective. But at least there we're elites that were quite noble that had a sense of noblesse oblige that went into government service so at least aristocracies and you have a lot more you know. Your country has a lot more experienced than mine. But we how dare you of at least aristocracies had certain virtues that the aimed for and i may be romanticizing things but i think so. I think that those ideas functioned in the same way that so of corporate language mosques their agenda i think since that just because of the the the way that chris behaved there is a degree of romanticism. That i can help you find. You been subject sony. Royal weddings over the is that some wife okay but but when our countries moved to using exams to decide who goes to the top schools and then the top schools increasingly determine who is successful. Not in every industry in business. You don't have to have gone to a top school. But in journalism. I mean journalism used to be like working class guys. Who would you know. Be hard nosed. Investigators smoking a cigar and now they pretty much all went to an ivy league school or middlebury college haverford or some elite a elite a liberal arts college so our elites now are the ones who did best on the exams and here. i'm from the columnist ivan. Krastev that the new york times here with this really brilliant column where he pointed out that the problem with this kind of meritocratic elite is that they deeply truly believed that they earned it. I got the top score on the sat or the levels or whatever it is. I deserve to be here. And therefore they don't feel an obligation to to the working class. So i think a part of the reason that populism has exploded all over the west and even in india and brazil and other countries is because we have terrible elites not that they're bad people but that the elites now really don't feel that connection and this is in part. I think why both the labor the labor party elites you're well educated labor leaders and are well educated democrats. Have you know they're just lost connection to the to the working class. Certainly the white working class. That's both on that that really resonates and make sense that there is no emotional or yeah as a romantic connection or live connection to this is what is important and i can see how i've had to kind of Necessarily for my own survival on pick the idea of my own merry oh the validity of my own success not from like there is some sort of aspects of the philosophy of the twelve that philosophy the ice off credit with saving my life. I suppose we have put. Plainly is quite because it's derived most latterly culturally from cristiani lov. Well you guys was alcoholics. Shot dead in the gutter. There's some of that stuff written in the ninety for he's got that kind of stuff about it. But because there is this embrace of divinity alongside the rather protestant punishing you know vengeful father stuff that saw the is patriarchal heart it and because of the union influence like young said like young categorically said the only way the an alcoholic or addict will come. This condition is a some kind of use experience. Some religious transformation and the ongoing support community. I feel that was powerful about steps is that they might provide a model for personal transformation. That might create a kind of the same way as you just indicate cultural phenomenon like an exam. Passing class creates a so of a separation and a sense of entitlement. They if a return to invite common spiritual values perhaps particularly if it was for a secularized model is the twelve steps could bring about a sufficient number of people that regarded the world differently is regarded into their individual identity is somewhat secondary perhaps interoffice over atavistic way to the interest in importance of the tri parish community Yeah so let. Let's let's for the. Let's be clear about what this divinity dimension is because especially for your secular viewers and listeners. it may sound kind of weird or abstract and so in chapter nine of the happiness hypothesis talk about how social scientists find to universal dimensions of human societies. A horizontal dimension of closeness and you can be close to someone far from someone and has a vertical dimension of rank or hierarchy at some can be above you or you could equal and languages and code this so if you speak french to versus new for both dimensions us to for someone who's close to you or below you. An english doesn't do that. We just say you but our minds do it. So we found linguistic trick. Which is will if it's up. We address them as mr smith. But if it's down we address them by first name okay so those two dimensions are clear. Everyone understands them. But what i found in studying studying. Ancient wisdom in studying religions in seeing the similarities across sacred works is that there's a third dimension got like x y and z z dimension. People can rise or fall on this without becoming your boss or hierarchical So i i really came to see this what i spent three months in In bhubaneshwar india indian east coast of india in one thousand. Nine hundred three Studying their whole psychology and of purity and pollution. And what i came to see is that Hindus like muslims and some extent orthodox jews. The there's a real conception of divinity of god and you have a relationship with god but there's a conception that to approach god you have to purify yourself ubaid so hindus. There's a lot of bathing muslims before they wash the hands feet face. So there's this widespread human notion that there is a god he or it permeates everything but sometimes we're closer to god sometimes further and it's generally put in in vertical terms and so i have a bunch of quotes here. The happiness hypothesis. I'll just saying oh yeah like ralph waldo emerson. So you're not coming from a religious perspective. He says he who does a good deed is instantly ennobled. He who doesn't mean deed meaner base is by that action itself contracted he puts off impurity thereby puts on purity If a man is at heart just then insofar as he god okay or that went didn't have explicitly vertical metaphors. But it's the dinette. Our lives are dynamic. And we do things we think things and as we do that we rise or fall and so the angels are above us the The angels are sort of like human but above us and here are humans. And then below us all the way down to the devil or demons but a monster is human but less than human more on the on the demonic side and so especially boundary. Crossers are real. They really freak us out but that but the cool thing for me. Was that the human mind. Does this all over the world. And most religions really incorporate it but even me as a secular person. I felt it. I didn't have a name for it. Until i spent time in india. And when when did you feel it. I felt so. I realized that there were certain things that i objects that i treated with respect for the physical thing like you know some books that were just so enlighten i just love them and i you know i. Would you know like the physical book would be. I treat or a record albums like Like oh my god. The rolling stones nineteen eighty or so a tattoo. You the second side of tattoo. You is just the most gorgeous thing and i have a reverence for it but also having a sense of just seeing things sort of elevator degraded like you see okay so by the time in the ninety s there was all this reality t. the in which they would have generally poor uneducated people you know yelling and screaming at each other over infidelity and hitting each other with chairs and it was very entertaining and really degrading so i had a language for that. Now that certain experiences lift me up and others. Just even though the pleasurable in a way they bring you down. If you're enjoying this conversation join me. Every luminary the rest of our discussion of for all the latest episodes of under the skin go past dot com to start your free trial. I really hope. I'll see you there thank you.

jonathan height john cunanan middlebury college haverford Krastev russell brand org jenny biden calgary lee Jonathan rick india labor party ivan bhubaneshwar sony new york times chris brazil
3 MAGIC WAYS TO USE QUESTION FROM FRANK SESNO CNN REPORTER - B2B SALES

The Brutal Truth About Sales and Selling

30:37 min | 2 years ago

3 MAGIC WAYS TO USE QUESTION FROM FRANK SESNO CNN REPORTER - B2B SALES

"Hey, everybody. Welcome. This episode of the brutal truth about selling selling podcast before a dig in. I wanna thank everybody who's gone onto Lincoln connected up with me. Follow the brutal truth about sales and selling podcast company pages. Search for it. You'll see the icon come up if you could follow that that really helped me, and if you see my content flying by either with the podcast company page or my happy little face. I'd really appreciate like comment, and or share op before we get in the interview, I want to ask you a question are are you full every week of meetings great qualified conversations with new opportunities is your day. We your month just booked up with new opportunities and a full pipeline or you spend your time getting reject it. No response. No one picking up people asking you to take you off the list. It's just rough out there. I know it, but I came up with a system started about five years ago when I'm came. Out when out on my own, and I've developed it and polished it over the last five years I taught it for the last three in person. Now, it's online, and of course, called start the conversation. Get the meeting you can find it at B to B revenue dot com under training. And if the podcast makes sense to you is this the type of environment that you're selling into. I think you'll really going to enjoy. The course you get access to it for a full year. And it's not just videos has videos tons of examples and now almost twenty five hours of world real world case studies what we call office hours every week and a half. We have a group call you can also schedule one on once you can send me examples respond back to you. You can ask questions at any time. We can have one on wants to go through your process, and what you're running up to and get some coaching some hints that will make it better. So go. To be to be revenue dot com. And if you wanna talk to me about it, you can schedule the time, I got my calendar link there, you can check the courses out the other one I running into deals getting stock when you get into the complex sale. It's very different than the transactional sale. There's a course call closing the complex sale. Also want to check that out. If you're deals are getting stuck if you're running into tons of competition, people beating you down about pricing versus value. And if you deals are just taking way too long. Let's get it into the interview. Hey, Frank as way getting started tell us a little bit about your background. And what the motivation was to write your book. Well, I've been in journalism most of my life. I still am in many ways, and what you do there as you ask questions, and they become an amazing key to open all kinds of doors unlocked, and some not and just the delight I had over the course of my life, and discovering ideas, and people and things was something that I realized was impounding, and then I over the years, especially as I started teaching and hang out with my own kids. I realized we we don't ever study. How to ask a good question. We don't ever study what the composition is. We don't actually think deeply about the excellent listening the active listening that should attend. Questioning so that you can question more deeply what you're listening for words expressions, phrases. And as I started tackling the book, I realized the way I wanted to kind of this was through the these categories of questions because each is driven by different outcome in my book, and knowing and understanding the outcome and the different listening skills attached to each and how we can pursue each. We can be better at each. So where it all came from? Yeah. I mean that said everyone teaches how to present and how to debate. But nobody really teaches how to ask questions and how to listen, right? And in journalism, for example. And I've done a lot of interviewing show interviewing and that kind of thing so much of it is in the follow up. What are you here that makes you ask that next next question? What are you trying to accomplish in the string of five questions? It's not unlike well, it's different. But there's a corollary would would sort of be, you know, the lawyer in the courtroom has a very thick. Objective that he or she is trying to get out of the witness, and there's gonna be a series of questions that you know, leads to the big aha moment. Right. Well, that's not by accident. No. It's not very choreographed. So what if we were all more thoughtful in the way, we approach these sorts of things, that's it and probably Insalud. There was a big push in the early nineties with questions. There was a book written by Neil Rackham called spin selling the kind of oversimplified the four kinds of questions he had and the sequence to use them. Now. Yours are similar in some ways but much more detailed, and I think more powerful. And I like how the book was written where you describe the type of question and then back it up with several stories to me. I'm a storyteller. And I am a big believer in stories because that's how we learn. And remember, that's one thing. And the other thing is I wanted the people. That I got for the stories to be interesting in their own right to be successful. In the way. They ask those questions and to be inspiring to people as some of them are famous and are dealing with shag Ganic issues like Colin Powell deciding whether we go to war or not and some of them are wonderful, ordinary human beings, like the roofer or the nurse practitioner or people at at a business who are trying to spark their employees to share a mission through the questions that they posed to them. So that they can come to realize know to these conclusions into the realization themselves rather than being told at the end of a lecture. Here's what you're doing. It's much more powerful. And the research shows people remember what they say much more than what they hear. That's true in that that really resonated. So out of the book for me. Right. So if you can if you throw a question, you spark somebody to say something of that sticks. Yeah. And I've had hypnotists in neuro linguistic. Programmers on the course, and they say questions are the only real mind control that we have. That's why I stay away from them. Now, I'm sure you've seen great reporters or great interviews and mediocre even poor interviewers. How do the great ones build up their questions? Well, there is so many different styles. And this is what's kind of fun about this, and what people should remember. And I say this throughout the book, there is no one formula for this so much of it is driven by you and your personality by you and your level of inquisitiveness by you, and those things that that that you are. So for example, one of the people of the book chaplains to be a consultant to philanthropists and fundraisers, she's all about what you do when you're trying to get somebody to write a check on walk in the room and said, can you please write me a check you walk in the room? And you you generate a conversation through a series of questions to discover the sort of shared mission in life. Right. So I think that the most important thing to keep in mind with great interviewers. Is a they're fabulous listeners. Be they are well prepared see they follow up. They ask series of questions to draw someone out. And finally, they really know what thereafter that they are you trying to make a sale are you trying to change your mind. Are you trying to discover new information? Are you trying to fix a leak each one of those objectives drives a different form of questioning and? Sort of the frame to the whole discussion, and let's say like diagnosis questions, those are critical and sales to make sure that you understand someone's problem or the the opportunity that they're trying to solve what they're really trying to seek. How how have you applied? Those to really have a great interview every day. I have lots of problems. So, you know in the in the book, I have three characters in this chapter one. Character is a nurse practitioner and Appalachia she works with some of the poorest people in America. Many of whom do not even have the resources to go to a doctor or who are concealing something because they're embarrassed or or or they they just are trying to ignore the problem because it's just too big another character in in in. That chapter is a guy who's a Wall Street turnaround artist. He's had mazing career have hangs out very nicely on Park Avenue in New York has done very very very well from or himself grew up the working in his early days with the coca Chrysler when Chrysler had you know, trying to rescue itself with a lot of federal help. And then the third character is my neighbor the roofer, so what each of these people is doing in their own way. They are plunged into a situation. There is a problem. There is something wrong. We do not yet know what the problem is the clock is ticking. If we don't fix it. Something much worse is going to happen. So they all go for the same thing. Describe the symptom connected to pass activties or actions. Like, you know, your elbow hurts. Does it only hurt when you straighten your arm, and you flex your arm? Your roof is leaking does it link when the wind is blowing or just when it's raining, and they they history take with doctors called history taking so you try to connect things to the past. So you can drop patterns and lessons that you can apply to the future. And then they use their experience in their listening to say, okay, more than likely. This is what the problem is. Oftentimes, there's no guarantee but getting to that combination of of describing questions describing the symptoms describing what's wrong asking the series of questions about it that connecting that to patterns when those symptoms have been detected and connecting it to what have you tried or done in the past to really draw it out, and Mary experienced a symptom is is sort of the secret of that kind of questioning, and that's insanely powerful. Because you gotta know what? The problem you really trying to solve into understand it into address it in a certain way. But once you've diagnosed it, what type of questions would you then use to build more reporter and trust. Well, what do you wanna do about that? I mean, if you're talking about building rapport and trust there is a chapter in the book, I called bridge building questions, and these are questions that are often conducted in the character. I have in this particular chapter is a guy who works with the FBI and secret service in the US marshals in what's called gauge risk threat assessment. So these are people who write horribly threatening letters to the president United States or something else. And then everybody, you know, the question for them is is someone who seems to be threatening to do something terrible actually capable of doing something terrible. And there's and they'll bring these people in and they question them. Well, okay. This is an extreme example. Right. But I I used it because it is. And it's just as wonderfully. Interesting intriguing example. But these people are isolated they often think that no one listens to them, many of them have mental illness or other problems. And if there too, you know, if it's too extreme none nothing will work. But most of them tend to be according to to bury vote act might character there reachable. They are. They are human puzzles. He says they are angry. They are alienated. They are distant they feel isolated and they feel that nobody listens to them. The rapport building is to make them feel listened to. So the questions are designed to draw that person out I almost called this chapter of terrorists and teenagers because it fits the Bill. Coming out will be there. But what I hope that people will draw from this is not that everybody's a potential murderer out there. Not by any stretch of the imagination. But berry uses for example, what he calls micro Ephraim, Asians through his conversations Bill acknowledge something some of the interesting, he'll not he'll he'll cock an eyebrow. Whatever and he'll draw people out. But that's interesting. Tell me more about that. And his whole effort is to draw people out and encourage them to talk. So that works with your kid that works with a client that works in a teacher student relationship draw them out piece by piece Barry refers to people as puzzles are human puzzles and tries to put those puzzles together piece by these by the way, he was John hinkleys as a very young, man. He was John hinkleys group therapist and tried to shoot and kill Ronald Reagan. So Barry knows what he's talking about. I remember when that happened scary now. Once you have that empathy. You talk a lot about creativity questions strut strategic questions about building a compelling future for the person to get them to imagine a different future. How did you come up with those types of questions throw the number of things I? My alma mater Middlebury college some years ago, I was on the board of trustees, and we had a facilitator come in and say, okay, imagine this college is the number one school in small liberal arts colleges. It's five years from now, you just got in the reports back your number one. What are you doing? You took a future scenario and put it in a present tense question. A few years later, I started doing here in Washington called tabletop exercises. It's what the military and homeland security does and they sort of wargame actual scenarios. And you pretend the future is upon you. And I realized that in both cases, and in other cases, I've been involved with what what people are being asked to do is they're being asked to create an imagined reality. And they're in it, and they're speaking in the present tense, and what that does does several things it leapfrogs all the five thousand reasons that you don't think you can actually get there because you you time travel to that point. And and if you ask the right questions, and you invite people to tell you what that. Future. Looks like open your eyes look around you. What are you doing? How's the business? Look who your customers. How many are they where are they coming from? What is your ad campaign? Look like, you give them permission to dream. Yeah. It's almost like a trial close where you're Suming. Things are going to go positively and trying to get them to commit to some action there, right and MacKenzie has done some very interesting research themselves on brainstorming sessions corporate brainstorming sessions, what constitutes a great brainstorming session. And it's all about getting people to leave their space and to leave the familiar often through the question that you pose. I the way I view it is the question is the time machine. Yes. And that's what you you want to use it as a time machine to transport some somebody to another place. So they can engage that imagine reality and start to really think not outside the box but burn the box. You know, right to go forth. No, I'm sure you've interviewed difficult people and people who didn't want to answer your questions directly. More than once. How do you? How do you get people to focus and how do you get them? Not to just tell you. They're their pitch. You know, you ask again, and again, and again, you ask in different ways you come at the problem number of different ways. You don't start with the hard question. You start with ice breakers. You start with open ended questions, it's the same very much the same sort of thing. And again, I write about this quite a bit through the book. The these open ended questions that a doctor or therapist will do to get you talking. How you doing today? You don't know where that will go a berry when he's doing his dangerous threat assessment. When he talks to agency will lack any talks about Dan Canham is research sort of system one and system two in the brain. When the red flags are up versus when they're not often. He'll talent agent don't start with the interrogation you walk into someone's home and compliment them on the artwork or the picture of their family on on the desk. Go to a place where people are comfortable to get them to to get them talking to build a report, even if it's shallow or or or or or small one to start with. So that's what you do. And then as as you go. Forward. I have a chapter on confrontational questions. And this typically happens when I'm interviewing people are when you're interviewing people kind of in the public domain, or if you're a lawyer or whatever, and you've got a subject who has no intention of answering your question or you're going to try to dodge it or duck it. I've had several of those. Like that. And you just have to be very very persistent at sometimes you'll get something often you will often you'll put somebody kind of on the spot, and you have this kind of for the record moment. Other times they just shut down. And that says something to you can't force someone to open up if they're absolutely determined not to write and I see too often on TV where they start with the hard question. And obviously it's a question that the the politicians been prepared for and they just try and turn it into whatever they want when when when I when I worked years ago at CNN. When Larry King was on the air. Remember, Larry King? Larry King used to drive all the reporters at CNN crazy because Larry King would get the president. Larry King would get you know, the candidate is about to announce he or she is running for office. Larry King, we get these people at the pinnacle of the news cycle and all the reporters were there, saying, wait a minute. What are the journalists here? We're the ones who should grill that person. Larry King would start. And this is what made people crazy type of thing. So how's it going? What do you write the books? You get elected. What are you going to do? And and we thought these are ridiculous auto questions what they are is. They're what we call indirect or open ended questions and the advantage to those is they give that other person the freedom to go wherever they want. They don't start by painting them into a corner. Whereas the Sunday talk shows, and what we do in journalism too much starts by putting people right on the defensive. Don't do that. Don't do want. Someone just if you if if you want to if you're doing something for purpose put them right on the defensive and let it play out. But if you really want people to open up that is not a good way to start. So he kind of let them do their thing. And then kind of went around it. And I I would tell you this. I actually did an interview with Larry for this book. He's still Eighty-three. He is still asking questions and still doing this. He he tended to produce remarkably candid comments from people because he wasn't threatening them. And that is an important lesson to keep in mind. It doesn't always work. I mean, sometimes you really have to bear in and lean on somebody. But you wanna be very delivered about that. And that's the point that I make be very thoughtful before you go at someone like that. Because that is the blunt force instrument of questioning, and what was your hardest interview. I've had lots of them. Margaret Thatcher was tough one. Because unlike most people, especially when you sit them in front of a camera. She had absolutely no qualms. No hesitation whatsoever about saying. Well, that's perfectly stupid question. It makes you feel good. Challenging the premise and the person. Most people don't do that. We have a president. Now does so in his own way with very different accent? He he does it most people don't do that. So when someone does that you have to be a steely because you a have to stand up to the challenge and beat you darn well, better know what you're talking about. And have as many facts at in your brain as you can and not just facts, but kind of good responses to be able to respond the other one, and I write about this in the book, very very, very difficult interview. And ultimately Harley frustrating was when I interviewed Yasser Arafat here in Washington in front of the council on foreign relations, two hundred fifty people in the room and cameras from all over the world. And we were in the middle of one of the uprisings in the Middle East and children Palestinian kids going out and throwing rocks and getting shot, and it was terrible stuff. And there was a call from all over the world for Arafat to tell his people to keep their children inside and keep the children out of the fight. And he refused to do it. And I knew I needed to ask them about that. And it just exploded I spent. All day kind of studying the question talking to people who knew him thinking about how I could craft. I write about that in the book how I put that question together. And why and he just exploded? And I thought he was going to walk out. He didn't. But it was a very unsettling unsatisfying interview. No. When when you're interviewing somebody of that stature, either president or prime minister, what type of preparation, do you go through a lot? You know, and this too. I think applies. In other walks of life. You know, if you're going in for a job interview think of it is going to interview the president or be interviewed by the president. You want to really study what that person has done. What they have said what they are in the middle of right now where there where there is controversy or debate or conflict around them or tension. So you know, what to engage or what to avoid you want to be very thoughtful about exactly what you're listening for. Are. You listening for news detail data stories people is there a particular objective that you've got so you prepare in that way. And then ultimately, I'll write out all kinds of notes, and I'll I'll do an outline and I'll anticipate their responses and will create what I call clusters of questions. So let's say I'm going to ask about. The budget down. I'm gonna interviews the budget boss, and I wanna talk about where the company is going to be spending money next quarter. But specifically I want to talk about where we're investing and specifically in the investing. I wanna talk about where we're investing in California because that's been our growth market. So I will I might start broad on investing come down to California come down to what we're trying to accomplish come down to what the competition is. But really create a a the Matic flow for the questioning. And that's certainly what I do in those kinds of preparations when I'm going in for someone like that. And then you have to throw it all out walk around the block because once you get in and have the conversation we're going to completely undetermined direction. So you need to be kind of knowledgeable about what you're going to do and not tied to a note or a script 'cause life doesn't work notes. Scripts right. Yeah. We'll be able to look down and refer to them you need to be able to listen and go in different direction. Now, your book is a very different type of book it meaning that it's not. Like a business book directly, nor is it. You know, kind of what I call bubblegum books. Like, Malcolm, cloud while stuff. We're it's pure entertainment. It's kind of instruction yet, storytelling very easy to read how how should people leverage it? I hope people will ever just in their lives. I hope questions are like air. We don't even think about them think about when you've gotten together with a great friend, and at the end, and then you, and you part, and you realize your friend said to you has it gone, and that's kind of where it stopped. But since you last saw your friend twenty-seven incredible things in your life have happened. Good bad. And otherwise think you're with a partner, a wife, spouse, whatever and what happens when you post something as a question rather than just as a statement. And you make a deliberate attempt to draw that person out. I hope that people will take from this book that whether they are trying to solve a problem connect with another human. Being understand that human being better set really creative crazy goals for themselves. Look over the horizon or assess the meaning of their lives each of these things we can do better they can do better and more successfully by coming up with five great questions going into a conversation or a meeting or a party. I've trapped around entertaining questions. You can be the best party host. If you throw some crazy fun funny question on the table, and you get everybody engaging rather than people going off in their own little pockets and just talking to themselves. So I got one really hard question for you. How do you get all these interviews for your book? I beg I beg. Now. Whatever it takes. I mean, I'm sure your network is vast and deep, but I'm sure a lot of them are also reasonably cold. Jose Ramos from the Univision Univision anchor. I just called him out of the blue Colin Powell, I've covered for many years. I went back to him because he's one of the most inquisitive people, I know at Bernardo the show runner and producer in Hollywood. I got him through a super lawyer friend of mine, I called him and said who's the most inquisitive person and successful person, you know, and asked him my neighbor, the roofer I went over to him. And I said can I talk to you? How you how do you fix roofs? And he's just started telling me, so it's interesting because when look here's his his point. I'll leave you with if we're getting to the end here, we say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. That's true. But so in the right way, and the right tone is questioning because when you ask someone a question, you say I care about you. I care about what you think I'm interested in listening to you. And basically, that's what I did. When I asked people to to sit with me for the book, I'm interested in you. I wanna know how you do what you do. And do it with a question. Can we talk? Yes. And if people wanna learn more about you in the book where we should go if they want to learn more about me, they're out of luck. Because there's nothing more to learn. But it's all there. No, I'd love for them to go to ask more book dot com. And you'll see all about the book, you'll see some of these other conversations and things I've written about it. They can people can read a sample chapter by the book, so asked Moore, book dot com is the place to go and all the all the right buttons. Or they're great. Thanks for being on today. Frank. It is migrate pleasure and good luck. And by the way, I love your questions. You've you've you've generated terrific conversation. I'd look forward to doing with you again anytime you'd like. Hey, everybody. Thanks for listening to this episode. And I really would preciado everybody who goes onto Lincoln connects up with me your follow me there. If you happen to see some of my content flying by if you could throw it a little thumbs up or a comment or share. I definitely appreciate it helps spread the word about the podcast and make sure you checking out my website B to B revenue dot com. You can get my free book on how companies make product selections. It's a real book. It was on it is on Amazon, but I give it away for free just registered there. It'll Email you a link to it, and you can just download the PDF from there. Also, if you wanna check out the courses start the conversation, get the meeting or closing the complex sale and to have more questions about it too. Short answer. Is there video courses you get access for a year? But it's also a community. What does that mean, you can ask questions anytime via voice, mail or E-mail? I answer them within. A week put him into the course, we have office hours every other week. It's an hour long. We course where you can basically I pick a topic answer questions. You can ask questions. Also, you can schedule one on ones for free, and we just talk through your particular use case, and that gets shared with the course, if you don't have time for office hours, or the timing doesn't work or you just want some more one on one help that's all included for a whole year. So it's really a year to go from where you are to where you wanna be. And so it's not just video. So it's not just knowledge. It's practice. It's getting feedback. You can send me emails. You can send me your presentation. I'll help you with anything that you need to close the complex sale or get the meeting, and you can check out them at to be revenue dot com. So that's it. I really appreciate it. And please tell somebody about the podcast and let me know if I can help you in any way. Oh, and you wanna hear some results from the course. Well, here you go. You know, I love the approach. It's working for me. Just fantastic. I if I sent you some of the emails, which I should conversations that I'm having with people, I think he'd be blown away because they're not really about work. They have figured out that you kinda get personal with them. Like one lady all about family kids and nice sprinkled in a little bit around work. And she linked inning spending me messages on Blake game voters over family. No, not even kidding. I should show that you'd be stunned. I was shocked. She she even we're going to lunch on September six and yesterday. She shot me Lincoln message and said, hey, Ron why don't we get on the phone and do a video call beforehand, so our lunches and so awkward like fairly not meeting each other for. Oh, holy cow. Right. This is unbelievable. So this is not the first time that this happened. She's kind of an extreme. But I'm starting to figure out a pattern where I can actually make this process. You know? So good also yet. So it's getting to that point every time. I did it. Unbelievable. You know? So it feels better two dozen. All right. Let me tell you something to be able to go go to lunch with her Elliott talked on the phone, right? We're going to talk about Sam Louis kid work life. Harmony could be better. I shared it with her from Bago about work life army visited by the conversation will start now at some point. We're both not stupid. Right. We know we're going to talk about work. We know why we're both bear to kick it off his way, it's so much better. And to end that once with the last five eight minutes of telling you know, well, what are you guys doing the digital?

president Larry King Lincoln Colin Powell Frank Washington United States Neil Rackham CNN Middle East Middlebury college FBI Barry Yasser Arafat California John hinkleys Margaret Thatcher Insalud consultant
Warren Buffetts epic annual event, Planet Fitness innovative real estate strategy, and almond milk vs. Dean Foods dairy

Snacks Daily

16:26 min | 2 years ago

Warren Buffetts epic annual event, Planet Fitness innovative real estate strategy, and almond milk vs. Dean Foods dairy

"The. This is this is this stacks daily. It is based six and this is the best snacks daily. We've ever whipped up markets. Barely budged last what they were record high for easy stuff happened over the weekend. You got the jobs report on Friday, which was very strong employment lowest rate since nineteen sixty but then yesterday Trump announced slash threatened that China's going to get a whole bunch of new tariffs starting we're talking an extra twenty five percent on those things markets might freak out today. What a birthday present for my wife. Happy birthday, Molly say's day. Maya technically, we celebrated on Sankoh Demayo, aka Cinquanta, Molly. Molly goes way back to our freshman year. Middlebury college incredible story happy birthday, Molly. But three other wonderful stories. We got in the pocket I up Warren Buffett and his Berkshire Hathaway annual shareholder meeting happened this weekend. Pretty cool the burning man of investment events a little bit of Cirque du Soleil in there. We're going to break the whole thing down for you. Like, you're eighty eight years old all my God hit me. What's the second story is dean foods, this is America's largest dairy company? It's struggling it's losing to almond milk. Jack, I've got nipples. Third files story planet fitness announced its earnings its stock is up seventy five percent last year. We're fascinated by everything about especially one thing. It's real estate strategy. We will jump into that reminds us of nature show. Now before we hit all those stories checking we're doing research on boxes. Trying to find the perfect fast food box pet project passionate exhibit A is Burger King. Yes, they just launched last week anti happy. Now, this is not just a dig at McDonalds. They're called real meals, and they're getting it real emotion yet. They're point is that not every day is happy shocker like you have some real emotions, and you can express them in you're happy. And you can't just eat that away with eventually this five different anti happy box. And we go through the colors here in particularly include a whopper a soda and some fries and the first box is called the pissed box. Which in red second is salty. I like how that one's -til curd is sad which naturally is blue this one we're going to pronounce. Yes. It is purple because because sometimes you're pretty the last one is don't give an F and that comes in black now, this isn't just to McDonald's. They're doing this because it is a particular start of very particular. This is mental health awareness month and Burger King is acknowledging that you don't always have to pretend that every day is a great day and that you're happy, but you can express yourself through a nice indulgence with a Brown paper. King all about the fields in touch with emotion. Now, let's hit our three stories before we do. Listen to these keywords. Daily. We gotta get some legal out the way. Rain food is candy. They don't reflect the views of robinhood family. Gist. So. Securities is not a research report or investment advice. Netto security next business. LLC member famous last. For first story berkshire-hathaway just had its legendary annual shareholder meeting over the weekend. And this was all about Warren Buffett's it lasted for three days starting finish Sunday. I'm looking at the agenda here Friday. There was a little like shopping thing. You got to kick things off with that pick up in a cocktail. Everyone wants a nice gift Saturday was all bad speeches and Sunday was a lovely five Katie Chata, and it was some sweat. This is burning man for investment work. They were talking. A lot fewer sculptures less drug consumption, kind of same level of smugness. If you've got to be able to go. So we gotta say that what is Berkshire Hathaway so Berkshire Hathaway is like basically letting someone else invest for have you ever wished that? You could not have to invest in your smart, buddy. Could do it for you? Yeah. You had access to some wonder boy or girl, the wonderboy is eight years old his name, Warren Buffett, and he takes money from investors, and he buys stocks or bison tire companies and then at the end of every year, Warren Buffett and his team berkshire-hathaway look at a scoreboard single scoreboard. It is Berkshire Hathaway stock versus the S and P five hundred and they try to see did we beat S and P five hundred six of the last seven years Berkshire Hathaway stock which you can invest in is has done better than the s&p five hundred which is the rest of the Mark. Now, here's who's at the top of Berkshire Hathaway, you got Warren Buffett legend from Omaha. Nebraska warn and raised eight years old. Oy of the great depression. Then you got his side kick, which is vice chairman Charlie Munger coming in at what age ninety five. This guy was a World War veteran amazing hosted in Alaska, he was a meteorologist there. So these are both self made men by the way, and they built an empire of successful investing. Okay. So out of the three days, we didn't focus on the five K would info on the welcome gift, Jack. And I want to jump into what we thought were the fascinating six our interview with Warren and Charles one questionable investor asked Warren. He said, hey, you lawn musk and tesla they're thinking about adding their own car insurance like branch because they have so much access to date and Warren, basically laughed, and he said that company has no chance in auto insurance. Now, the reason he brought this up because one of the biggest investments. Berkshire Hathaway's made is in insurance. They also owned guy like one third of Berkshire Hathaway is insurance. Okay. So then the second big question that got asked had to do with craft Heintz that's been a hugely unsuccessful investment by Warren Buffett right down the. The value by like three billion dollars. Warren said that was actually a good company, but any investment can turn bad. If you pay too much, Jack wake-up stick down pillow. It's kind of like a motivational thing. You put on the mirror. I think they also touched on Wells Fargo. Yes, big is one of the biggest investors in Wells Fargo Wells, Fargo's become really big investing in scandals and warns response was several years ago. The Los Angeles Times wrote an article, basically illustrating these sketchy sales practices that have caused Wells Fargo all the problems and then verbatim. Warren Buffett said management ignored that article. They should have. They should not have now. This was the big kick. This was the thing. Everyone was curious about Amazon Amazon's Jeff Bezos, Warren Buffett's, Berkshire Hathaway just made for the first time ever this legendary investment company their first investment Amazon. Warren is a simple, man. He was raised like eating corn inequalities. He's doing these calculations. Right. You know, and so Amazon whole business model has been a little too confusing. Little too complex. So he hasn't invested. But warned said Jeff Bezos has achieved a miracle any tends not to invest in companies that require then Warren being worn kicked it up a notch and said, you know, what he would like a blood transfusion with Jeff basis. He wants punch. We wish we were making that up. We're not, but we respect the on. So this isn't the first investment intact by Berkshire Hathaway, they also invested forty billion dollars in apple and they also admitted that they missed out on Google. Instead, they screwed up. They should have invested in literally said that so Jack what is our takeaway for our buddies over? Berkshire and our good buddy worn it's time to start thinking about the post Warren berkshire-hathaway now ages remember warn is eighty eight and his vice chairs ninety five those are the two leaders, and they're both going to be retiring soon, we they've got an army of disciples who've been trained by Warren is a legendary mentor now young managers are the ones who convinced him to invest in apple and Amazon said that that's a sign of the future. But honestly, you cannot. Teach the instincts that Warren cultivated in that cornfield during the great depression for our second story planet fitness just released earnings, but we found a fascinating story in its real estate found a fascinating story about where it's based Nashua. New hampshire. Fantastic. I know this company because of the commercials that say this is a judgement free, fitness. And you're right. It's the kind of gym where like typically go to the gym really pushing to get that extra Repin. You don't need to get that last rep plant just goes get the last set, what are you still doing the explicitly ridicule like huge meat heads who had thrown waits around commercial? It's a great place for socializing. I noticed last month. They announced that teens fifteen to eighteen years old can work out for free and planet, fitness all summer, very nice giving back to the kids. So the company is expanding quickly. They just announced some pretty big numbers last quarter. They opened sixty five new gyms, which is up to seventeen hundred nationwide. Now, the revenues are growing faster up twenty three percent, and they're really really caught onto some pretty Kice. Well, one key thing we noticed is that this wellness trend. We like to talk about on snacks daily. It's expensive. Oh, yeah. It's not cheap those Lululemon pants talk about they cost like one hundred twenty bucks. I'll say you both your thrown back twelve bucks throwing some extra almonds and coconut that's like a whole like lunch for three. That's a budget. You need to allocate now fitness has caught onto that trend. But they're doing it at cheaper priced ten bucks per month is the entry level membership that planet and they've caught on. So well, the stock is up seventy five percent in the last year stock has been seriously blowing up since it's two thousand fifteen now it barely budged after last week's earnings report. So we dug a little deeper and found a fascinating storyline fitness company is indirectly benefiting from what Amazon is doing. Okay. Get this. If you're Google planet fitness new locations using Nick just did. This was classic snack style right here. Found a new location opening up in Rockland, Maine, and I jumped at this story because I bend Rockland. Maine. He's a rocker crowd new Englander here. The ferry takes off divinely. And I noticed there's this JC Penney plaza. It's been shut down for a couple of. It's really big. It's a ghost town out. It's one hundred fifteen thousand square feet and guess who's moving in planet, fitness exactly it'd been vacant for two years. So it probably got that real estate for like nothing turns out when you look a little deeper planet fitness has been doing this all over the place as seventeen hundred locations now, and it's been expanding into places that used to be retail stars that have died in the age of Amazon, basically with the retail Pakalitha. It's opening up new opportunity. Another great example Kohl's Kohl's has average store size of eighty thousand square feet, and they really want to boost their wellness sales. So they're actually going to take a quarter of their store. Twenty five thousand feet and rented out to planet fitness land in his jumping into where the retail Pakalitha says hurt retailing rent for super cheap and Kohl's will benefit because people are gonna grab a protein shake on the way out. So Jack, what's the takeaway for our buddies who are micro benching over at planet, fitness chaos. Creates opportune. Now this business line retail has been hurt badly. But with that big hurt has come a big opportunity. Gyms gyms are coming in and taking up the space that retail use to Ocoee. So it's writing that retail pockets Trent just like it's writing the wellness and wouldn't have expected this for third and final story, dean foods, the United States is largest dairy producer might be selling the farm. I've got some conflict of interest this story about dairy diet. This is hard for Jack. He's sitting down sweating Vermont big dairies day. I was raised by my dad telling me that milk does a body. Good. Jack was baptized in a bowl of like leftover lucky charms Milton. That's mostly true. So dean foods is the biggest milk manufacturer in the US is fifty eight manufacturing facility, that's concerning term, which I think just means dairy farm. So we're across nine states. They make milk half-and-half ice cream butter sour cream. They got like fifty brands that you've been running across in the aisles here. What else they got friendlies is their brand land of lakes butter is their brand love. That Owen their derelict farms the classic. This is all dean foods and back. Surti other local milk brands, you probably know if you're from now, they report earnings later this week, but we did find out over the weekend. In a Wall Street Journal article was that thirty eight percent over the last ten years. That's how much their sales are down. And they've brought in investment bankers, which is not a good sign. They're considering spinoffs or breaking itself up or selling the farm. If a company invites in a bunch of bankers, they're gonna be doing something big. It's either really good or really bad thing. And it's definitely not good for not just like a lunch situation. All right. So we're going to break this down about what's going on with dean foods dairy from the demand side. And the supply on the demand side veganism is not good for dairy dairy. If you're vegan literally conscious eating trends in general. That's not good for dairy either. Because most milk is produced on like factory style. Big corporate sill, you got more people realizing, they're allergic. You got like ultra pasteurized Mel, which basically just means highly processed. Milk. And then boom, you've got the rise of the alternative milks here. Oat milk, which Nick loves almond milk, which my fiance, loves flax milk, which is apparently a thing. I know I would say than any of these milk similar to your baptism demand. For dairy is down as my fiance says no other mammals, drink milks true asked babyhood. She has the shirt for them. Now on the supply side, interestingly politicians, love dairy, farmers at Iowa New Hampshire big dairies to and those are big political states and that has driven subsidies for the dairy industry, but get this. Here's the weird chart situation. You've got demand falling on the one hand supply, though is rising. It doesn't match market forces. But due to the political support milk production has been up ten years in a row in the United States. So Jack, what's the takeaway for our buddies over at dean foods milk, gene, foods, businesses and looking good? But it stock is a pure play dairy investment. Sometimes it's like it's hard to invest in. Trent you see a trend out there. But you can't see a company that just embraces. Here's some trends that you might be interested botox cord cutting autonomous self driving cars. The gig economy wellness brands, there you get sometimes hard to find a company that perfectly fits those things. But here's the fast anything about dean when you look at its business model ninety six percent of it is dairy product. So when you're looking for an investment in your thing and wanna find like the dean foods of Derry, right and dean is all over milk in a way that almost looks unhealthy. Like it's upset just wrap things up for dean. They have invested and they own majority stake of good karma, which is a flax milk company. One of these smaller of the alternative milks kind of the younger cousins. So they made it maybe a little eight Jacky whip the takeaways for. I'm still thinking about a Vermont baby boy getting baptized in whole milk. It's an image everyone. So Berkshire Hathaway has beat the s&p five hundred again last year. But investors are wondering about the post Warren era. We're waiting for invite. But we'll just wait another planet fitness benefiting from chaos in retail. If you see a mall closing it may be getting treadmills and finally dean foods is not loving the milk alternative trend, but it is a pure play investment in Derry and few companies are time for snack today. This whipped up over the weekend. Poza Kentucky, Derby hosts, Kentucky, the Kentucky. Derby is the kickoff of the triple crown horse racing events things going, including if you mentioned also gender neutral, they allow guy horses and female horse. We're talking colts and Phillies, but interesting distinction here between the two the horses. Must carry a jockey of a certain weight now right Colt is a male horse. It must carry a jockey one hundred and twenty six pounds, and for the Phillies the maximum is eight hundred twenty one for their jockeys way less than that they need to carry weights in their pockets because one twenty six and one Twenty-one is how much they must carry now. Pro tip in case, you're thinking of jump. On a horse for one of these things that weight that you'd throw on actually a little less efficient. They say that dead weight is heavier than living dime. Everytime. I've heard that we loved having you guys on the podcast remember to help keep snacks daily growing. You can go down and drop a rating in your tunes fell. Help get us notice. We loved potting with you today. We'll poverty can't with the Robin Hood snacks podcast. You just heard reflects the opinions of only the host who are associated persons of robinhood, financial LLC and does not reflect the views of robinhood markets Inc. Or any of its subsidiaries or affiliates to podcast for informational purposes. Only and is not intended to serve as a recommendation to buy or sell any security and is not an offer or sale of security. The podcast is also not a research report and is not intended to serve as the basis of any investment decision. Robinhood, financial LLC, member FINRA SIPC.

Warren Buffett Berkshire Hathaway dean foods Jack Amazon United States Berkshire Hathaway Molly dean Google Vermont Middlebury college China Cirque du Soleil McDonalds Trump Nick
Our relationship with wildfires

Axios Today

10:02 min | 7 months ago

Our relationship with wildfires

"Today's episode is sponsored by Goldman, Sachs. Good Morning. Welcome to access today. It's Friday. September eighteenth. Here's how we're making you smarter today the colleges that are opening the right way plus Jewish High Holy Day services go virtual. I though, our relationship with forests is today's one big thing. And the end of this week, nearly three and a half million acres of land have burned in California making this the largest wildfire season recorded in the state's history and has just September fires reaching up the entire west coast have killed at least thirty, five people. Air Quality remains unhealthy entire forests and towns have been decimated. Today we're looking at our past relationship with forest fires and what the future looks like with how we rebuild Brian Walsh's excuses future correspondent, and he wrote a story this week about prescribed burning and Brian One. Of the most effective ways to fight fire might actually be with fire precisely. Yeah. I mean as it says, it's prescribe in order to reduce the fuel load of forest. You're actually planet in advance you burned several hundred thousands of acres with the idea that you do that on a time. When you know it's not going to have control by doing that you both reduced the sort of number of trees, especially dead trees but also you put in breaks that can keep force fires from just exploding, which then should make less intense less. Than what we're seeing right now for hundreds of years before European, settled California native Americans did Prescribe Burns calling them good fires but starting in the early twentieth century kind of imported a lot of practices from Germany, which was very into forest fire suppression but the force, they are very different. They're not accustomed to fire you bring it to the West a system where fires much more common. That's not a great idea I'm from Florida. And in the everglades about one hundred, thousand acres. That's ten percent of the National Park are burned by the park service annually. That's one National Park in Florida, and basically it burned almost the same amount as the entire state of California does every year compare that to the southeast? It's much more common. There's much less public opposition to it, and as a result, they used it very effectively to prevent really out of control wildfires but in. That's just never been in the culture going back almost a century. Now, one expert I spoke to estimates that California needs about twenty million acres to burn just to bring us back into Kinda balance I look at this situation and to me, it really drives home how we've been changing the natural world for one hundred fifty years now since we started burning fossil fuels in abundance. And what we need to do is take responsibility for the land around us and our impact on it, which in this case means not suppressing fires but actually trying to understand that if we wanna live there, we actually have to a greater responsibility than we have so far, and if we don't, we're seeing those consequences right now. We've changed the climate so much in the last century the now scientists are saying when we rebuild these forests, we need to look to the next one hundred years. Put it this way when we're going to plant trees, our goal should be what is the right tree in the right place for the year twenty, one, hundred, that's what we need to ask ourselves. We're trying to plan reforesting landscapes Alison Snyder rates the axios science newsletter researchers are telling. Her, how much the landscape is changing because of these fires and not just because of the lack of prescribed burns that's causing larger areas to catch fire climate change hot weather dry winds have made fires more intense spreading faster burning, and killing more trees and eliminating canopies. So for the trees, these high intensity fires the whole tree is burning say and it's also larger areas that are burning. So seeds that are viable may be on the edges of. Fire have to travel further to reestablish themselves when you have these fires come through and it knocks out the mature trees then the young trees can even establish themselves. So researchers are trying to develop specific strategies to not only replant forests, but also make sure they're less susceptible to these fires in the future they're really trying to piece together that puzzle in some cases, it might mean planting more drought tolerant species in some cases, it may be the. Same species but planting them less dense and in particular pattern that would help them to be able to withstand these more high intense fires, and if trees aren't planted, it could be a major problem for animals seeking shelter for the air we breathe for capturing and storing carbon. The bottom line is that our relationship with forests is a delicate balance, but the historic fires taking over the West Coast have shown how desperately this relationship needs to be rethought. Expect to see that the forest to the future might look different than the ones we have now. Thanks to axios. Brian Walsh and Allison Snyder. We'll be back in fifteen seconds with the universities that are doing a good job containing the virus. Cova nineteen is changing markets industries, and the global economy. You can hear the latest insights from Goldman Sachs experts and thought leaders. At GS, dot com slash cove nineteen or on any of your favorite podcast platforms. What the MAC to axios. We've spent some time on axios today talking about the colleges that are getting opening, wrong. But what about the places that are doing it right or finding that the smaller and more rural colleges have been doing quite well keeping infections down and preventing the spare infection from turning into an. Air Capacity has been reporting on the colleges that have been successful at this Colby College in Waterville Maine Middlebury in Middlebury Vermont. The student bodies are small and the towns themselves far flung and they can keep students effectively quarantine within the student body. So what can we learn from these schools? How are they doing this? So when the school is small in its world, it effectively functions as one large bubble. However, there are examples of some bigger universities that have managed to. Do this right as well. Heard from a lot of readers after I published my piece, one example that kept coming up with Rochester's technology, which has a student body of over eighteen thousand. But they say they've kept infections down by testing the sewage of different residential buildings for the corona virus and Duke has done a nice job as well. They are testing three times a week beer universities that have done really aggressive or really innovative testing plans have found some successes well. Erica. Pandy writes the at work newsletter for axios and one of the people who reached out to her was Benji Renton a senior at Middlebury College. He coming back to his small Vermont campus this fall felt pretty much like Year aside from the fact that we were tested on arrival and tested seven days after and all these social distancing unmasking precautions I feel like the same kind of spirit and the same kind of just feeling of being back on campus with your friends with your classmates I think that feeling is deathly still here. Benji. Is also the digital director at the Middlebury campus, their school newspaper. So He's been closely tracking what the administration has been doing to keep everyone safe. They did a great job at testing all students when they got here testing everyone seven days after the college also running seven hundred and fifty tests. A week of randomly selected students are success at least so far they is also attributable to the students and my peers doing the right thing for the community. Renton is a senior at Middlebury College in Vermont. Eventually, thanks for being with us. Take care. Thank you so much. Before we say goodbye for the week, the Jewish New Year Russia Shawna starts at sundown tonight. Shaw. New, York Central Synagogue welcomes more than a thousand people into its pews and has livestream services online. Since two thousand twelve to thousands more now congregations around the world are taking a cue from them going virtual with the same expressions of prayer reflection and the blowing of the show far. Happy Russia and should not UVA. That does the first today before we go, we have one more big thing to mention for our senior producer Carol Alderman she's getting married and we wanted to say congratulations. axios today is brought to you by the US and Pushkin Industries. Special thanks to axios CO founder. Mike Allen this episode was produced by Neria Marquess Martinez, Carol Alderman Kara Schilling in the Shaven Sarah. Helen Goo is our executive editor at Pushkin. Producers are Tom Allott in Jacob Weisberg. You can write to US podcasts at axios dot. com, and you can find me on twitter at Nyla Buddha. Thanks for listening stay safe and have a great weekend. Goldman Sachs experts and thought leaders are sharing their insights about the trends shaping markets industries. In the global economy, you can hear the latest insights on Covid nineteen economic and market implications at GS DOT com slash cope in nineteen or any of your favorite podcasts platforms.

California Goldman Vermont Middlebury College Benji Renton Brian Walsh Russia axios CO Florida US National Park West Coast Alison Snyder Brian One Germany GS DOT Carol Alderman Helen Goo
Harvey Weinstein Case and Democratic Primaries

The Dave Gram Show on WDEV

1:26:15 hr | 1 year ago

Harvey Weinstein Case and Democratic Primaries

"It from Radio Vermont. It's the Dave Graham show on. Wd It's your show about the people places and the issues that matter the most to you. Now here's your host Dave Good Morning. It is Tuesday February. The Twenty Fifth Two Thousand and twenty. I account up to twenty there anyway. none of coffee at this morning folks. But I'll see if I can hang in there and I I want to mention we're GONNA be talking a lot of politics later in the show. We're going to have Matthew Dickinson Professor Political Science for Middlebury College on our Arab it later this hour. We're GONNA be talking about the Nevada results in the Democratic primary or caucus out there and we're going to be talking about the path forward for certain local senator here and by Bernie Sanders that is and whether he can actually hang in there and you know maybe win this nomination with the Democratic Party and then I'm going to be opening up the phone lines the latter hour of the show and just ask listeners out there and find out what you think out there about their Bernie Sanders he's He's Vermont's known for a long long time and is he really presidential material. Do we at the picture him in the White House and etc so I'm curious to know what our listeners think out there a little later in the program but I I wanted to introduce a For not the first time. She's been on the show two or three times. Previously Lisa Senegal is the chair of the Commission Vermont Commission on Women and She is GonNa talk to us a little bit about. Some big news broke in New York City. Yesterday were Higher Harvey Weinstein the longtime Movie producer really big. Hollywood name W- is now has been found guilty of sex crimes. Essentially he of course was at the center of allegations. Brought forward. I via the New Yorker and the New York Times and They each won a pulitzer prize covering Harvey Weinstein's issues with his treatment of women and he just got his come up with the criminal justice system. Yesterday they called him out of court room in handcuffs and He's going to prison for significant time. He also faces criminal charges on the West. Coast in California Los Angeles prosecutors will. Maybe we can find out a little bit about the status of the case out there when that is likely to go forward but Let me Welcome my guests leases Santa. Call to the show. Thanks for coming in this morning. Thanks so much for having and This must be an I should say also Lisa you have been on the receiving end on Victim I guess. If that's the right word of Sexual harassment yourself in an employment situation and so they must be a certain amount of feeling that maybe there is just the beginning of some justice being done here. Yeah absolutely yesterday was a huge day. I think there were an awful lot of of women and men as well who care deeply about this subject who were pretty concerned about what was going to End Up happening with this verdict and were afraid to wish or hope that there really would be convictions on at least a couple of charges. So yesterday was A Happy Day and it was also a tremendous relief to see that maybe something is beginning to change and the Some of the discussions. I heard yesterday on various news programs indicating that there may be a new legal standard in in formation right now sort of in the process of being developed. Do you have any thoughts on that? In the past these these cases were incredibly difficult to Not only to prosecute and get a conviction but to even have Have District Attorney's or state's attorneys willing to take the case because they were so difficult to get convictions on and one of the the really positive things that I think has come out of the metoo movement is that because people are talking so much more about what trauma is and responses to trauma and there seemed to be this idea in the past that a victim was supposed to act a particular way and would obviously want to come forward immediately and would never have contact with The person who assaulted her again and those things just aren't true there in there. Such a broad spectrum of the way people respond to trauma and and somehow in this. Weinstein case the jury They grapple with those issues and they got beyond them and they were able to Make their way to Convictions on two counts. Because some of the some of the women were remain in contact with with Harvey Weinstein after after the incident on which he was convicted and You know in the past. I think people have thought well. That's a sign that that maybe there wasn't that the sex was consensual or that there wasn't really any serious assault that happened etcetera etcetera. Because why would you wanna go back and see or talk to The perpetrator after such a hideous vet and it turns out it seems that that human relations weather professionally or personally or whatever are a lot more complicated than that. They are more complicated in this The responses to Sexual harassment and assault related to the workplace. It's not terribly different than the way we see. People react to our Experiencing domestic violence. It's It's an incredibly psychologically complicated situation and we know that domestic violence abusers Have a way of manipulating their victims. So that they They continue to remain in a place where they're going to be abused With these cases the Harvey Weinstein Women who had come forward. He held an incredible amount of control over their lives. Not just Their their life at that point but because he he held he was the gatekeeper. In Hollywood and these women were at the beginning of Careers and he had the ability to shut those down so for the same reason that he was able to assault them in the first place It was a way to silence them. afterwards in and be able to continue to manipulate their conduct. So if you If you're young woman coming up in Hollywood and you want you want to be cast in the picture yourself being cast in movies for several years to come Decades to come whatever you are in a position where you don't want to anger a person who makes movies who's the chief of a big movie production house absolutely and and women in Hollywood I I assume it still true to to some degree but certainly before the Weinstein story broke. They understood that If if you didn't Either keep quiet or succumb to what it was that Harvey Weinstein wanted that you could be labeled a difficult person to work with and once you have that label on you. You're not going to get cast any longer and you know there used to be the stereotype and you know people even made sort of attempted comedy out of it sometimes about the casting couch. Hollywood and all this sort of thing where you know big movie producers were considered to be people who had access to lots of beautiful women. And and just we're free to do whatever they wanted pretty much and It is that really changing. Now's the culture. Change your understanding. The situation that the people are are now behaving differently than they did. Thirty forty years ago. Well I can't say that I have you know clear view into what's happening in Hollywood but In the work that I do certainly seeing that that workplace cultures are beginning to change and people are really starting to recognize. And I I think this verdict is is going to be another big step in this process that You are taking a tremendous risk by victimizing Women any people in this way and and the stigma because it is Being chipped away at women are not They're not accepting the shame that victimisers have wanted to place on them for what has happened to them. So they're speaking out more often and I hope victimisers are going to realize that The risk is increased and the likelihood that they're going to be exposed has gone up dramatically. Speak to us a little bit about your own experience in this realm you you're in a harassment situation yourself a couple of years back. I was I had been approached by the CEO of a local company for a what I was told was a senior position with the company I was strung along for a long time Eventually he Manipulated situation where I would be Alone and I I don't want to go into the details of what happened but It did result in me contacting the company. The company's response to what I described happened was that it was my fault that I wanted it And that basically I regretted After it happened it the response was the standard. Was exactly what you heard these women and Harvey Weinstein's trial being accused of by The the lead defense attorney Donahue Tunnel You know women are are if they put themselves in these situations. They're asking for it. They have nobody to blame but themselves and That certainly Being accepted far less Eventually this Local man was forced to leave. The company I had signed an. Nda I then learned after that that there was At least one more woman who had been victimized by him I started speaking out. And she now She was able to get a judgment against him in the company for false imprisonment and sexual harassment. And and you gotta you gotTa settlement from the company as well. Yes I did and and you know. I think that that. That's obviously bad. News for the company cost them some money. And if you're if you're a member of a board of directors of a company you probably don't want an executive Iran who's going to be ending up costing the company money in these kinds of settlements used to be this idea that you know there. There were these golden hug executives that you couldn't possibly be able to continue to run the company without and that gave them incredible power inside the company and what people are realizing now. Is that the damage. They're doing inside the companies when they are sexually harassing women or men People of any gender the turnover rate that's created the toxic environment that undermines productivity and profitability. There they They don't have the golden ticket and they need to be exposed and they need to be removed. And the you know this new your discussion about nondisclosure agreement obviously brought to mind. Immediately a little discussion we heard last week about nondisclosure agreements and in the course of the Democratic debate last Wednesday night Michael Bloomberg was famously. Now asked by Elizabeth Warren. We'll you release some number of women we don't really know these act- Who worked for you in the past from nondisclosure agreements and Blooberg Hamden hot and it was a really. I think everybody agreed ugly moment for him in the debate. Couple of days later. He said he would release. I think it was in three cases and then you had to ask three out of what three out of three or three twenty and and where do where do you see that standing right now? Well we're seeing more and more states Take up the issue of nondisclosure agreements. Whether or not they're going to be allowed in cases of harassment and discrimination. It's something that I expect We're going to try to bring up in the legislature here in Vermont next year. And it's it's already being discussed in. Massachusetts this year Bloomberg didn't do himself any any favors in last week's debate. making His response was that the only Payouts at the companies made with anything related to him We're just in cases where he told jokes that women didn't like and that is the The Ultimate Line of defense for bullies is always to say. Well I was just joking. And these aren't jokes We know that he did have His ally densify three people who he said he will release from nondisclosure agreements. But those are only people who may direct complaints about him but he's the head of Bloomberg and the environment that has been allowed to Flourish inside his organizations that is his responsibility ultimately and he cannot just put this off on other executives. Who behaved badly inside the company? He's responsible for making sure he is not creating a toxic work environment. So all of those other nondisclosures. Those are his as well. Yeah and I. I still don't think we have the total number of nondisclosure humans relate to harassment I think when he was talking about how the other parties to these nondisclosure agreements might WANNA maintain them as well and might have had an interest in keeping secrecy here. I just thought that was transparently. Garbage frankly because this is a real imbalance of power in the goes into these nondisclosure agreements where one one side says. I have a bunch of money. You have some information. I will pay you X. Amount of money for keeping the information out of the public basically right and and the settlements are all so I mean the for real harm that has been caused. Not Not just for the silence. But certainly that's the expectation. It would be very easy for Michael Bloomberg to sign agreements new agreements with these women allowing them if they chose to speak To be able to do so if if his concern is that he needs these agreements in place to protect their privacy. They can control their privacy and decide whether or not they want to disclose the information but let them out Let let them out of the gag order what sorts of activities or standards or whatever is the commission pursuing setting up and someone to try to reduce instances. Like the one you experienced here in Vermont Well the the commission in Cooperation with the Attorney General's Office and the Human Rights Commission has just created a new sexual harassment and discrimination website at work places for all. I'm going to get it wrong. I believe does Vermont Dot Gov But if you go to the Vermont Commission on Women Site. There's a link directly from there it's workplaces for all and this was created as a resource That was funded through the new sexual harassment law. The Vermont passed a couple of years ago and You Know Vermont. Commissioner women was Heavily involved in working on that new sexual harassment legislation and seeing it through to passage Along obviously with the creator of the Bill Sarah Enhance US And and network constantly continues at the commission. It's a resource. Where a lot of phone calls come in Where we redirect women who have been victimized either employment discrimination as sexual harassment. But there are a lot of other forms of gender discrimination in the workplace and That new website is a fantastic resource that that is for businesses and for individuals are a lot of educational materials on it so businesses can figure out what it is. They need to do and how they can do it. And it provides resources for individuals who might be the targets of sexual harassment or People who have witnessed sexual harassment in the workplace that want to understand how they can be good allies. I can imagine a workplace where people are working next to each other and there. There's a genuine. I Dunno spark between them of whatever in a mutual feeling of liking one. Another whatever happens all the time. How do you? How do you sort of manage that in this new environment? Genuine Romance Blossoms from workplace. I I think it really depends on the workplace. Some places have You know rules around workplace romantic involvement. You either need to disclose it and both of you you know. Sign Disclosures that to this is a consensual relationship between the do there are some places that you know a supervisor And someone being supervised by that person cannot be in a romantic relationship because of the power disparity there So it's handled a lot of different ways It I don't think it's necessarily You know something that needs to be forbidden or taboo. But I think you have to be very careful about what that power dynamic is And we just have a couple of minutes to go and I did want to get into a discussion about our president because he has been multiple accused of Of sexual misconduct. And as you know at least in that access Hollywood tape admitted to what many people regard as sexual misconduct himself and and the famous interview Howard Stern where he talked about walking into the dressing room of underage beauty contestants and so on because he owned the pageant lots of lots of really questionable behavior there And I wondered whether during the House impeachment proceedings. It might have made sense for you. Know one of the articles to be about Some of the conduct here we could. You know I mean. If if a dozen or up to twenty women have accused the president of various things some Modicum of justice with at least getting them to come in and tell her stories if they want to. Should that have happened? Well I certainly think there was an opportunity with the the payments to stormy Daniels because those happened after he had been Elected he was in office and he was paying money for a cover up And he was individual one in the the trial that ended up convicting Michael Cohen. So jail right. He went to jail and now obviously trump remains president of the United States. Just think that needs to be underlying with it you have apparently according to the court papers to co-conspirators right after Yep absolutely Michael Cohen in quote unquote individual one. Michael Cohen goes jail individual. One goes to the White House. Yeah it's it's pretty staggering. The degree to which people have been willing to Look past his conduct and the the many credible accusations of sexual assault and harassment You know I hope that. That's changing. We certainly see Michael Bloomberg being held to Account for the sexual Harassment discrimination. He has not been accused of sexual assault. we'll we'll see whether or not People start to have less tolerance for that and Joe Biden himself has been also called Duke out in some instances for somewhat questionable behavior. He's he's behaved in ways that have made women feel uncomfortable and I think it's the responsibility of all of us to be conscious enough of our own behavior to know whether or not the the person we're interacting with feels uncomfortable about what we're doing and I think it's great that that Biden was called out for those things and I hope he's developed more more consciousness about his conduct. Yeah that's a nothing real reason on that front. So maybe he's learned something and France we can. We can take that as a good sign but I I do think that the you know all everybody in public life now really needs to be aware of their consequences. If you're misbehaving and I hope it's I hope it's going to trickle down into smaller businesses in small communities and people who aren't high profile So that they understand that they're serious repercussions for them as well and that it is a responsibility of theirs to behave in a way that is not infringing on other people's Rights. It's not all about presidential candidates and movie moguls folks. That's about everybody. So keep that in. Mind as you go forward. Hey Lisa Seneca of the Vermont Commission on Women Chair there and I thank you very much for coming insurance and time with us this morning. Thank you very much for having already really go to a bottom of the hour break for some. Cbs News on the Dave Ramsey show here on Wd FM and am when we return on any talking with Mad Dickinson political science professor at Middlebury College with US folks as the winter rolls on were on sale upstairs with worn store all full. Winter clothing is twenty and twenty five percent off cozy tops comfy bottoms warm coats and jackets for men and women. Cool promise. Smart will save the duck car trolley long underwear nita hat. We have skied shoot us. Popular and more palms and beanies Galore and a large selection of sucks from one to functional blue. Cue to Dr Tannock. Spring clothing is arriving so come on down for the best. One Stop shopping in Vermont. The almost world-famous Warren Store mainstreet Lorne village newsradio. Wd Ev FM and am now back to the day. Bram show we are back in. I believe we have on the phone with US Matt Dickinson. He's a political science professor from Middlebury College and This is his second time of the Day Graham. Show here on. Wd FM and am and we're so glad when somebody comes back. I always go. Oh good this way and there may be a future here after hall magic. Thanks for joining me this morning. I'm glad to be ready and So Nevada was a big day a big day big night for Bernie Sanders. And we've got a lot of national. Tv commentators talking about how. He's the front runner now and and boy a lot of debt mainstream middle of the road. Moderate Democrats are nervous about that. What does the road ahead look like here? Well the immediate Pasco South Carolina and as you remember in Two Thousand Sixteen. That was really the beginning of the end of his candidacy. Because he'd come off a big victory in Iowa Dwell in Nevada with by the way about the same percentage of Latino vote then that he did This last week and then headed in the South Carolina and just absolutely get crushed by Hillary Clinton and he got crushed largely because of lack of support among African Americans who are about sixty percent of the democratic electorate down. There and I anticipate they're going to be sixty percent again. Come this Saturday so this is. This is a huge contest for San for Joe Biden as well who is using South Carolina's a firewall. Yeah now indicates of Sanders. Has He changed his strategy tactics organizing or whatever in South Carolina. He tried to do something different than he did last time no he. He's not just in South Carolina but he has reoriented his entire candidacy. Structurally end in terms of message to try to expand his support in the African American community. You as you know on the democratic side much more diverse electorate african-americans era substantial proportion and non white voters. Racial minorities are like sixty percent of the vote so sanders is you know. He's changing leadership. Team Nina turn a African American state. Senator from Ohio is is point out take point on his campaign. You saw him. Nevada talking up Decriminalizing marijuana possession we know most people criminalized or convicted of marijuana. Possession or African American East changed his message. He's changed his campaign the visibility his You know the people who are the face of his campaign. He's making a concerted effort. You GotTa give credit for that. Yeah I remember in sixteen actually. There was that incident in Phoenix. Where black lives matter? Activists Kinda took over the stage and showed that that sanders seemed at that time to have a little bit of a ten year here. And and I and I remember thinking that you know He. He would go around saying that he marks for Dr Martin Luther King and he was part of the demonstrations at the University of Chicago about desegregate desegregating housing there in the nineteen sixties and and but it seemed as though his his Civil Rights Bona Fides had been kind of I don't know put on the Put put on the canning shelf for fifty years You know or maybe stored in amber or something and then he hadn't really Didn't really seem to have any any and I'm sure there's sensibility was still okay but is resonance wasn't really there do you. Do you agree with that? I do I mean I think partly let's face it. The Guy was representing one of the whitest states in the Union in Vermont. And it's not surprising that over time you know. He didn't develop that street cred with the black community And the other thing is i. Think your your point about the sort of being tone deaf for Bernie. It's all economics economics economics economics and that's not necessarily how African Americans view their history. Here is one of structural racism that transcends economics. That's not how you reach them. You've got to. You got to expand that message and the other thing I would say in two thousand sixteen. He had a candidate running against Hillary. Clinton you know often joked that Bill Clinton was our first black president They had a strong standing in the African Community. And she capitalized on that so he had a lot of things working against him. This time around think you know. I talked to some of my African American students. They think among the younger blacks in South Carolina. There's some evidence as a message might be resonating here but again it's too early to tell. Yeah and and I think Bernie also when you talk about economics with him. I mean it stems from from his old class at Alice's kind of goes back to you know really classical Marxism almost and and I think that that he Sometimes struggles to get outside of that frame of thinking and you see an issues. I mean something like a gun gun control that has really not that much to do with economics And and he struggled to know exactly what to do with that. Yeah and that is another issue that affects the black community. Disproportionately gun violence and you know. He has begun to back away from you. Know I wouldn't say he was a strong gun rights person but because of there's a lot of hunters in Vermont his record on You know he claims he was against the salt band and that costs and his first effort to get elected to Congress He was in favor of an assault weapons ban. But you know for the most part he was at least tolerant of gun rights for most of his service here and I think that might be an issue that he gets attacked on the debate stage tonight. His I think people like Tom Steiner and others who are trying to take him down are going to go after his record on guns. I wouldn't be a bit surprised by that. Actually and of course he he Know some credit to the gun lobby for getting him elected first time in Congress to Congress back in Nineteen Ninety when Peter Smith the incumbent Republican congressman AP REPORTER. Here back then. And I remember that race Smith was really lambasted by the gun. Rights advocates for allegedly Breaking his word with them and supporting a I believe it was an assault weapons ban or some some significant restriction on On firearms that they hated and and that and they they struck that they they decided that made Smith a turncoat and that really gave Bernie Sanders an opportunity to pick up a lot of votes in rural parts of Vermont and to sort of breakthrough. Any idea he was this boutique candidate really just wanted to represent the county and maybe so mountain mafia or whatever. Yeah and he carried through on that You know again for much of his early career. It's really not until he came into national prominence that he has begun proudly touting The his low standing among the NRA's scorecards For most you're absolutely right and you were in the thick of this covering it He was Judas more if not a supporter of gun. Rights is certainly tolerant of gun rights. One thing that he's going to be hit on and actually I think he was someone last week if I recall right This question is vote about the Liability for gun manufacturers Basically relieving gun manufacturers from liability for their products ending up being lethal and I mean you know he his argument for that. Make some sense just from an objective standpoint because I mean guns are designed to be lethal and and So you really can't I mean who makes a nonlethal I I don't so any but anyway That's still something that you know makes him look like he's on the side of the of the big gun lobby and and he's GonNa be You know easy pickings for for Michael Bloomberg and Thomson etc and again it gets to the racial component of his candidacy because gun violence. Disproportionately as we said earlier affects black voters. It is an issue. I mean they've had you know. Mass violence gun violence down in South Carolina. So yeah I agree with you. That will come up on the debate. Stage what is our our our black voters notably more supportive of gun control measures than voters at larger white voters. You know one of the interesting issues is when you get to the general election we know. African Americans are GONNA overwhelmingly support. Whoever the Democratic nominee is in the primary where you don't have party cue to decide between candidates you begin to see. The black vote fracture a little bit between an older generation and a younger generation. And I think that's true on gun ownership in particular Younger people I think are much more in favor of gun restrictions than the older community but blacks in general tend to be more supportive of gun restrictions than our White voters. How much of that's going to play in South Carolina? Hard to tell there's so many different issues down there And but I think a generational divide in the black vote is gonNA be very crucial. Do you the pulsing indicates that Sanders is closing on Biden in South Carolina. What what's your do you have any predictions for percentage for each or anything like that. Well you know the interesting thing about burning if you look at what? He's done so far. He is clearly the front runner but it is not clear that he's He's he's Really expanding his coalition here And you know he's got about twenty twenty five percent And I suspect that's where he'll end up in South Carolina. I think fall short a biden. I think Biden is going to hold on down there In part because of his support among an older African American community Um But you know sanders has already lowering expectations. He's saying I don't have to win. I just have to continue to place very high and I will rack up. Delegates saying he's GonNa get some delegates coming out of South Carolina and you and I have talked about this before the real issue is not Bernie support. It's Ken the opponents consolidate behind somebody else and so far. They haven't shown ability to do that. How would the house that kind of play out? I mean eventually. Are they all going to have to get into a room with some senior Democratic Pooh? Bah's maybe maybe Barack Obama needs to go to a meeting and say okay You know I'm I'm I don't know we're spending atop here. And if it points to Amy Klobuchar. She's our person and we're all going to get behind her. You know this is interesting in the old days you could do that. You'd be at at some hotel and you'd have three days in. The Republican Party would and the Democrat Party would meet together. And they're coupons would say this is our nominee. You can't do that now and you know. I think all of the front runners Bloomberg Global Shar Biden in Buddha's realized they have to consolidate but each of them are looking at the other and saying you drought dropout. You drop out. They all have ghost. They've all been in this a long time. Why should I drop out? So I just think they're going to continue going along Fracturing the vote here for a while and awhile being the period during which They were supposed to consolidate if they were. GonNa Stop Bernie Sanders. This is the problem right. After Super Tuesday march third Over a third of the delegates would have been selected on that day alone got big delegate rich states like California and Texas. At some point. It's going to be too late. Bernie. Sanders is going to have a plurality of delegates. And there's nothing anybody can do and then that raises a really interesting question If he falls short of a majority heading into the Convention our Democrats going to resolve this and Matt A lot of chatter in the last couple of days about the Common Bent Bernie Sanders made on sixty minutes on Sunday night. That Fidel Castro is not all bad Does this play play into the stereotype of him as a wild eyed radical? His opponent is there and I go to try to make that case and I expect that to be front and center of tonight's debate and in advertisements heading in to South Carolina and beyond. I don't think it's GonNa shake his core supporters but it does again give people who are more moderate pause. The the other place that might play into is a state like Florida. Where you have a lot of older Cuban exiles and that issue still resonates very deeply with them in Florida. To the extent that it's a crucial swing state here crossover. Voting can Can Can Republicans vote in the Democratic primary in Florida? I wish you hadn't asked me that on the air. Sorry I don't remember I know I'm I'm looking one st ahead in South Carolina. Okay all right all right I think for the primary. That's important question now because but I mean history. Is the South Florida? Cuban Americans have tended to lean Republican And and so you know if if they're not voting Democratic primary then maybe it won't have a huge impact there but I mean I'm a little torn about this on the one hand I think what Sanders said is kind of obvious that that you know. I guess nobody is one hundred percent evil right. You know I mean. Supposedly Hitler's kind was dogs and and So Fidel Castro launches its literate literacy program and Bernie Sanders You know has a natural deep ingrained instinct within him to think that things like government. Launched Literacy programs are good and So he he went there and it. I mean I guess it Kinda comes across now like really the biggest gaffe of his campaign. So far is that is. That is one way to describe it. Well the the issue here is If you were listening to his remarks at the time they were made I was watching sixty minutes here and I didn't raise an eyebrow really because as you said. He modified the comment about the an Anderson. Cooper pushed him on Williams supporting authoritarian dictator. But he said well. It's a dictator who I'm supporting the aspects of universal health. Care and so on and to me. That's Bernie but when the gets played out of context and it becomes part of a larger narrative which is the Democratic Socialists. Emphasis on socialist. Then yeah I think becomes a campaign issue. There's no need to make an unforced error in to give your enemies Sword in which to stab you with and he did that that I it appears that he did and I. I don't know whether I I guess a little bit of a question on how this plays because I mean on the one hand again in the part of me says the guy's being honest I mean his his honest assessment of Fidel Castro. Is that doesn't like authoritarianism. Doesn't like the clamping down on various personal freedoms and so on travel freedom and press freedom and all you know all the rest of it But the does like the idea of universal education and universal healthcare and so I think I mean it seems like most Americans could could understand those distinctions and then and then maybe if they wanted to they could give sanders points for being honest about not just Not Not just not throwing the whole Cuban revolution baby out with the bathwater. I guess you what I mean. I don't know I mean. I'm not trying to go way out of my way to Defense Anderson here but I feel like I feel like this is a classic case of the political discourse in this in this country. Just oftentimes being way too simplified. I think you're absolutely right. I think that you know stepping back. The broader issue here is is it going to weaken his support among his current You Know Voting Bernie Bros. Or whatever term you want to you know they they. They know what this guy's about his authenticity is is. They're not questioned the way it might hurt him. Is You know going ahead. In trying to expand that coalition to bring on moderates Developed Sort of the bandwagon make his nomination seem inevitable when the second half of that equation as well. I if this makes you less likely to support Bernie who does it make you more likely to support and that returns to issue of consolidating behind someone else by the way very quickly. Florida is a close primary. States of your point is well taken. I couldn't remember for sure but it is looking more towards the general election here. Yeah I it. And he's the nominee. This is probably not going to help them. But he's not there yet and of course you know you can always take tiny piece of that tape and replay it as an for a commercial. Be Right before the general election in Florida. And there you go and you can. I'm thinking I'm I'm. I'm writing with one hand while I talk on the radio the other year right now you gotTa have some money on you know. I'm only kidding. so but man. I'm also wondering whether you know Bernie Sanders To what degree is he? Is he going to be hurt by his refusal to fully disclose his medical records? And so on again. I think the same Argument can be made his supporters. Obviously it hasn't hurt him so far in fact you can make an argument that since he had the heart attack is support has sort of consolidated. Your you know. It was a good move politically speaking to have that heart attacks. I wouldn't recommend it for everybody but it has come up Elizabeth Warren who finally decided to take the gloves off with them has said he's got releases medical records and you know at this point he's got a target on his back and people are looking for any way in which they can slow the momentum that he seems to be gaining here and the health is going to be one of them taxes. His tax returns is going to be something Statements like Castro going to be a third factor and Again this is all par for the course in in a political campaign and it's It's just going to get harder for them down the road here. I this morning I was. I was kind of amused. Read I don't even remember what what right wing media that had it. But it was basically a compendium of all every digger and seven days story from the last twenty years trying to take a piece out of out of Bernie Sanders. You know it had to do with The listed the money from Burlington College and went to Karenna Driscoll's sanders daughters Woodworking school. And of course Jane Sanders Presidency of Burlington College which didn't work out well and so on and so forth kind of rehashed all of that stuff that that That have piled up with Bernie Sanders time and I remember and I was thinking to myself this morning. I said it's a little bit a little bit disappointing. That while there doesn't seem to be anything illegal here and there was even a federal investigation that concluded they couldn't bring any charges involving Jane Sanders and Burlington Burlington College. But it does seem like there's been a bit of I dunno advantage taking or whatever you know Bernie Sanders complains about the rich and well-connected meanwhile You know his wife suddenly become the president of of of a college is daughters. Woodworking school gets a federal grant et CETERA and What do you make of all that? You think there's any trouble for him there. Well you saw Mike Bloomberg Go after him for his three houses and Bernie's responsible as well. You know everybody in Vermont. The summer camp. Well as Vermont Yourself. There are summer camps in the summer camps But that plays into your your point which is well taken Record is fair game to the extent that his support is based on his authenticity. If you can suggest that in fact there is an element of hypocrisy involved in some of his issues than that it's potentially Powerful argument to be made. The question is whether this argument is going to resonate. Bloomberg was did not do very well and in pushing that but I think he'll come back to that and other in the debate tonight. Well we'll have to see what unfolds in the debate tonight. I'm sure you'll be watching Matt Dickinson and And meanwhile. I very much appreciate you coming on the program with me this morning. This is your second time. I hope it'll be third. I hope so too. I appreciate the opportunity. All right thanks. We are going to Matt Dickinson Professor Political Science and Military College. Than my guests. And we're going to be going to a top of the hour Cbs News break here and just a twenty seconds or so and we will be back with more than day. Graham show followed going to be joined by a journalist from AXIOS DOT COM as the second hour of the program opens today say with US folks as the winter rolls on who are on sale upstairs with worn store all full winter clothing is twenty and twenty five percent off cozy tops comfy bottoms warm coats and jackets for men and women. Cool promise smart will save. The Duck Cartwright long underwear meet a hat. We have skied soukous popular and more palm beanies. Galore and a large selection of sucks from fun to Functional Blue Cue to Dr. Spring clothing is arriving. So come on down for the best one-stop Shopping in Vermont almost world-famous Warren Store mainstreet born village. Back in the day. Graham show on WD FM and am. We knew our second hour on this Tuesday morning. The twenty fifth of February two thousand twenty. Thanks for staying with us. Folks Wanted to continue our chat about politics and about the Democratic primaries the debate upcoming tonight and leave your joined on the line right now by a reporter with axios DOT COM axios dot com is an excellent online site devoted to national and international news and Lots of interesting stuff on there very tightly written you. Can you feel like you're getting a lot of news in a short period of time when you're reading that site and I like it a lot and We are going to be talking for the first time with journalists with axios by name of Ursula Perrino and thanks for joining us this morning and So you're I gotta you are going to be watching the debate tonight and I'm wondering what you expect. Bernie Sanders going to have the bulls eye on them tonight. It'll be interesting. Obviously the last debate Michael Bloomberg was target all around but everybody is going to be wondering has he gotten enough already going to shift back over to bring sanders or they're going to sort of slip even even and also you're GONNA have Tom. Steyer back on stage who is also a billionaire in could amplify that bilionaire question that made Michael Bloomberg target last week but going into South Carolina sort of fighters game. And it's his to lose this week. Add yeah although the pulsing to be narrowing with Bernie Sanders closing the gap between himself and Joe Biden. Is that right? Yeah absolutely when you watch the projections over time Biden just had this huge masses leave for months and months and months but just sanders. National growth has really age Propelled him in South Carolina's fell. So it's an extremely narrow gap and it's GonNa be a tight. Race Biden was in the lead in Nevada for instance. What do you think happened to him there? I would collapse on his part in that other people. Just sort of get in their regaining really hard. I mean Bernie Sanders Scored a big win bite ventured the race. There was this immediate. He's the front runner mentality because it's sort of his turn he was the perhaps you know. Bernie. Sanders came in with a lot of name recognition but by the Obama administration behind him people called for him to run so prominently in two thousand sixteen so I think he had this great very steady start but as the campaign went on and he had those falters debate. Stage those falters in his past record allowed other people to move forward and sanders once they gained a little bit of momentum. I think eliminated a lot of those questions. Likeability for Sanders. He has people said if he could win. Somewhere in Iowa or New Hampshire. He could maybe win in Nevada to maybe he could win in South Carolina and then people become more welcoming to the idea of him as a nominee when they've seen individual elections turn out for him in a way that it wasn't necessarily projected to a few months ago. Yeah I mean I think what Bernie Sanders now is looking at as possibly I mean people are saying he's possibly going to be running away with it by a week from tomorrow. After this after Super Tuesday could be pretty much in an insurmountable Position although still not able maybe to get a majority of delegates but a strong plurality of delegates going into the convention is that right Super Tuesday. It's definitely going to be make or break for Sanders Biden. But it's also going to be the introduction of Michael Bloomberg. He hasn't been on the ballot and he's really states so we haven't perfectly been able to project how much of proportion of the vote he's going to take once number comes back in a could make something extremely sloppy but at the same time after she grew. Tuesday. It's likely that a lot more bottom tier candidates that have been eating up some of the vote that could go to sanders. I could potentially go to Biden. He's six and Matt Long if he does well in South Carolina. It'll reallocate those votes gotTA figure ones any. Clue Machar. Potentially we leave. Should she choose to or closely gallery for that one percent or even though it's the best warrant who really has had a hard time latching onto any of these early state? That's going to ship the race. So it'll be between sanders and Bloomberg. I'm not super cheesy thing I wonder from Warren's debate bounce from last week we'll see sort of continue into South Carolina. I guess too much of the early vote was in Nevada. Be To really have much of an impact there but I mean I think Warren Warren has to do well in South Carolina to make the claim that her debate performance which was very strong. I mean she really took a piece out of Bloomberg. It seemed a week ago whether you know. Does that. Really give her any new any new energy or whatever. What is your sense out there? What are you hearing from people you know? I think tonight. She's going to be really trying to prove herself again. But it's hard to do that twice. She came out of the gate so hot last week. Sunshine basically everyone she could and it stuck. You know everybody. All the post-debate polling numbers showed she did great. And of course like you said the early vote was in a Nevada so hard to measure. But it'll be interesting to see if she can do it twice. And if it has the same effect. The question was Warren is. Where can she win? New Hampshire was supposed to be her her baby. I was supposed to be where she wasn't an early. She gained momentum. Going forward people are looking. Is there anywhere. She can actually take first place because you can take second or third all day long. But if you're not taking I and it really doesn't set the stage for you. Taking nominations sanders in any kind of jeopardy in California or is he pretty much locked in on that state how -Fornia I believe it is doing pretty well but you know that is such a complicated stay for. He does tend to have a pretty strongly. They're so well above Bloomberg is followed by them. I would think he's pretty safe going into the primary. I mean I guess the only real way that I can envision a serious challenge to sanders. This is if on Super Tuesday. Most of the moderate vote in California goes for Mike Bloomberg And he's picked up some of the other states in play as well and the And suddenly is the moderate who's GonNa sort of carry that banner if you know what I mean. Yeah you know I think Bloomberg could become a sort of second option servite and voters because it doesn't do well in South Carolina especially this weekend. He's going to have a lot of donors second stepping back a lot of voters society. I really need to find somebody else to support Amy Kluber. Char is perhaps the most possible for him and policy or Keith judge but they both are trailing behind nationally and might not seem like viable option. Bloomberg who's really propels insults nationally in recent weeks could become not moderate option for Biden voter. Who are looking for their second choice. I think it's kind of fascinating actually to watch Bloomberg now because one of the one of the things that we're going to see is something for political science classes in the future to say a candidacy which was essentially all television. Ads is going to have the following impact in the American Electorate Do you do you agree with that or do you think that there's some? There's other stuff there that I'm missing. I mean it is really a test. Of How much money does it take to win an election where you don't generally participate in debates when you're not really doing a lot of groundwork as in town halls and stuff like that? He's opened up offices nationwide in some areas. That other candidates haven't even really started investing in two yet and that's a testament to sort of his bupe work. But it's a you're right. It's sort of a test of like how many ads take to win over voters the question of yard signs when you talk to candidates and campaigns they always say yard side though people like you able to put something in their front yard they like have something to. Steve Visual he is on every TV nationwide every radio every website. It's hard to avoid them so a lot of people who are undecided. Look and say well. He looks fine and I've seen him around ads and they gave entrusted in build credibility that way D- do you think we'll be hearing more about the nondisclosure agreements and all of that with the Bloomberg. I definitely think we're going to hear more about that tonight. Of course I don't know but that's my prediction I think especially when she conceded and has agreed to allow three women be released from those nondisclosure agreements and sort of shows defeat from Warren and I think the moderators. We'll definitely have to at least touch on it to say you know is. Are there only three women these agreements? I mean that's the question. I think there's really raised by that is going to let three women out of their nondisclosure agreements. Well how many nondisclosure agreements have you entered is the question actually and then if there are remaining women why can't they be let us? They're not exactly agree. Yeah and and and other candidates including Warren and I think it's sands said the same thing WANNA blanket released from nondisclosure agreements by Bloomberg and you know I mean it seems like there's more hammering to be done there. I don't know whether anybody's got it in them to keep pursuing. It seemed like they would. So that's that's GONNA be. I'm sorry it's an easy target definitely safe for candidate. It seems it seems rape this week with You know metoo movement Scoring a big victory and the Harvey Weinstein case yesterday with the verdict. There I think that's that's that's stuff is all sexual harassment is on a lot on people's minds and I mean Bloomberg's apparent style. Here is a lot different from Weinstein's but but I guess it's it's in the same realm isn't it? I mean the nature of Weinstein is pretty defined did known and he is now a convicted rapist. Actually about what could be behind Bloomberg as Minor sitting of the nature from the reporting nuts around is that they are more in the realm of sexual harassment not necessarily sexual assault. But that is the question you know we have to. We're not going to know is really let us and KS or somebody else finds a way to get the information out so or if there are women who have outstanding accusations that's going to be a looming question too so I think the quote that reflects on at the most from Warren's Punching him last debate was she said. We don't want another person in the White House who has a drip drip drip of. Nda's coming forward and of course lew alluding to the stormy Daniels situation. But he's going to have to answer to. It's going to be an ongoing question. Interesting to see the West. Those three women who do get released from their. Nda's have to say about one thing you want and I would think you're Democrat is Somebody distinct from Donald Trump and. I'm not sure that a New York billionaire with a history of You know women complaining about his behavior. is necessarily a bright enough distinction. But we'll have to see I. Guess Hey Ursula Verano I wanNA thank you so much for joining me this morning on the Day Graham. Show here. Wd good talking with you. Let's do it again soon. Thank you okay. Wanted to open the phone lines For the remainder of the show and asked folks out there. What do you think about following the Nevada? Big Win by Bernie Sanders over the weekend out there? I think bigger than a lot of people expected. he was leading going in but Early on The polls had biden. Joe Biden Up in that state and Bernie Bernie had surpassed him in the polls And then of course on election day Biden ended up a distant second less than half of the support that Sanders registered in that western state. And now it's onto South Carolina whereas they're going to have a primary this Saturday in and of course it's Super Tuesday is coming up next next Tuesday a week from today Folks in California and a whole bunch of other states are going to be voting in their presidential primaries that includes by the way Our own little state of Vermont. I think most people feel as though Bernie Sanders says a fairly good chance of winning the state where in the in the Super Tuesday primary of four years ago he got eighty six percent of the vote versus Hillary Clinton Kway resounding result for for any candidate in any race And that was That was something for for Bernie Sanders. he is He's strikingly popular Here in his home state I've seen reports that he actually is in anyone's home. State the most popular senator in the country so He's more popular in Vermont. Them for instance You know cornyn is in Texas or McConnell isn't Kentucky or Marquis in Warren are in Massachusetts according to the results of the study that I saw And one of the questions as we always are one of the statements we hear from backers of Bernie. Sanders is that he's able to draw support from a rural read parts of Vermont Up in the Northeast Kingdom Rutland County Franklin County places. They tend to vote more conservative You know within the Vermont Framework Still come on strong for for Bernie Sanders In fact digger dot Org Did a fact check gene. Sanders made a statement that affect a few weeks ago. She came out and she said Bernie Sanders tends to tends to draw strong support. Strong support was her phrase in parts of the state that typically arlene more Republican and And that got some pushback Including fact check by digger dot. Org digger is doing Sort of a political exile fact checks these days really interesting stuff they do. They do things on a wide range of St Base topics Stuff about the sanders campaign and And so on and and Just another reason to to check out that That organ that News News Site v Dot. Org is really got to just walk. Great Punch every day of Good Vermont Journalism and Something that Folks on a check out and also donate to remember. It's a nonprofit relying on reader contributions and Anyway the digger dot org had this Had this fact check. They did on the statement by Jane. Sanders Bernie Sanders. Does the Does well in rural and read parts of Vermont They give me the give it the fact treatment where the the they do an analysis and then at the they say are ruling and Arlene case was true but in fact sometimes we'll we'll go to A ruling this as false the statement that some politicians as made about some topic turns out not to be true They also have ratings like mostly true or mostly false sewer somewhat true etcetera and but in this case Jane Sanders stated Bernie Sanders polls well in at election time You know they went through. Digger went through and found a whole lot of Vermont towns. That voted for Phil Scott. The Republican for Governor and also the progressive left leaning Independent And when he wants President Democrat Bernie Sanders Running Running very strong and winning in in the same small towns in Vermont that That gave their vote to Republican Phil Scott Governor so reminders are famous for splitting the ticket and this is one One sort of ticket splitting in which folks here have engaged in debt for decades. Now really. It's a it is it is surely phenomenon in Vermont and I do think that most folks here And probably other parts of the country is too but maybe even more so in Vermont Tend to look at the individual candidate. We have a very system. We have such a small population. We do a lot of retail politics here. People know their elected officials to much greater degree than they do in places like Texas or Florida or California so they are over the years. A lot of people feel some familiarity with Bernie Sanders or feel Scott or a Howard Dean or whatever the case may be and they and they end up having a very strong personal opinion about the About the elected official. We're talking about so. Let's let's bring in any listener and by two four four one seven seven seven is a local number here in Waterbury and folks are welcome to call and share is share with us your views out there. Anything on your mind about the politics going on or about a state issues Looks like the House is going to be delaying a vote on the minimum wage veto override today. there's Just they they're they're taking attendance under trying to figure out who all's their new wall can't make it because of various illnesses and families and so on and They are not going to pull off a veto override. Vote from what I understand in the Vermont House today But let's bring in Rama from Williamstown. Good morning an interesting fact that kind of tracks with Sanders It just general popularity in the state of Vermont and how he was able to get people who would otherwise be considered Republican voters as well as People who otherwise would be considered Democratic voters the Progressive Party here in Vermont up and up until they I forget what year. What year was it. We're POLINA came in second. He ate key outpolled Simonson in the In the gubernatorial elections believe that was two thousand and eight. If I recall I'll take your word on. That sounds roughly right so but it doesn't matter for this too much right up until that point. The progressives were making real inroads into otherwise Republican voting representative districts. Now wasn't a lot. I was two or three but I remember going back at. I really got interested into Progressive Party at that point because they looked like they were offering a third alternative to what we were hearing. But then after POLINA Simonson in that. Kanat election that that's ruin progresses decided they would start running as Democratic candidates that that was the event and they had this great chess beating thing you know and and really was a disappointment to me. I just associated myself forever because that was the point where progress is just basically wanted to be more what they consider more left wing Democrats instead of offering some sort of third way but it says kind of third alternative that Sanders offers people that you know part of it is self empowerment and part of it is governmental empowerment and and people. Get it when you're working in communities you go into towns where we hold town meetings and and you know there's still a lot of town meetings around the state where folks sit down talk and make decisions and I'm going to get off the phone soon because my wife has pulled in and our dogs are going to start barking. But I think that's an interesting point that I always saw about Vermont politics that you know people. There is a third alternative in Vermont and people take advantage of it all right. Well thanks for the call. Thank you make some interesting points there and yeah I do think it's not just ticket splitting it's actually people who really have a a wide range of views on different issues and sometimes they are moved to A fairly conservative stance because of something like abortion or gun rights or something like that and then they feel like an economic issues they may they may consider themselves to be on the On the short end of the second for vis-a-vis the wealth inequality in our country for instance and so They end up Feeling more progressive shall we say on economic issues and then you SORTA have to pick and choose. You have to say to yourself you know. What am I mainly as as a political person and as someone who wants to wants to sort of settle on a spot on the political spectrum And I think a lot of our monitor's Struggle with that over time. I think they see that On something like gun rights were sanders has been has changed over time that he is. Es had some similar probably internal dialogues about certain things Bernie Sanders course was Not a strong environmentalist when he first got into into Congress as he is these days I think. Initially there was some thought on his part that environmentalism was was a Kind of playground issue for the rich And now he's discovered that there is an awful lot of impacts going on that affect Effect Poor folks and Working People More in in bigger ways than they do Rich people because rich people live ten. The tend to live farther away from You know Polluting chemical plant or oil refinery or even an airport for that matter so It's a there. There is clearly some economic inequality layered over environmental issues. And I think that is That is one of the things that made Sandra turn to sanders overtime in into quite a strong environmentalist Anyway we are fast approaching the bottom of the hour. Here we go to some. Cbs News at ten thirty You hear some national headlines. A couple of words from our sponsors. The Graham show will continue after the break. Don't forget about our podcast boats going to the Dave Graham show on. Wd RADIO DOT COM all of the link from there to our show and you can thrown out of it. Find a list of our research programmes at topics and you will be able to listen to your heart's content. Thank the war in store for sponsoring podcast. Back into view folks as the winter rolls on. We were on sale upstairs with warrants door. All full winter clothing is twenty and twenty five percent off cozy tops comfy bottoms warm coats and jackets for men and women who'll promise smart will save the Duck Cari trawling underwear nita hat. We have Skida Shukla's popular and more palms and beanies. Galore and a large selection of sucks from one to functional Blue Cue to Dr Tung. Spring clothing is arriving so come on down for the best one stop. Shopping in the almost world-famous Warren Store Main Street Marin Village Newsradio Wd FM and am now back to the Dave Ramsey. Show we're back in our Vermont. Junior senator is not doesn't seem to be very popular at least with a organ called law enforcement today it's online Website and they have an article up the first sentence of the articles Bernie Sanders. You are a hypocrite and it goes through a whole litany of stuff that many Vermont are familiar with about Bernie Sanders His his Why his wife Jane Sanders Presidency of Burlington College His the fact that the college well put some money into Woodworking school run by their daughter Carina Driscoll Sanders and And other instances over time of Bernie Sanders allegedly Basically taking advantage of the fact that He had a position of power in In our society as a US senator US congressman than us. Senator from Vermont and the they're they're they're sort of attempting to really paint a serious picture of corruption. Here one thing that I think we would have to note. is that Bernie Sanders has never been accused of violating any any As certainly never been found to violate any law There was an federal investigation of Jane Sanders as activities at as President Burlington College. Which of course ended up going out of business Bernie Sanders is I mean I've a couple of questions about that. One is in this age of Of Women operating independently of their husbands. I'm not sure how much responsibility for whatever happened to burn. College necessarily flows back to to the husband in this equation. That's a question that's one question. I have another issue. Is that of course Even Jane Sanders yourself was was cleared of any any real wrongdoing in the Burlington college situation after a federal investigation Let's see there are few other Issues that have arisen over time with and this points to Essentially Bernie Sanders as they say being being a hypocrite taking advantage of being a wealthy or Know and certainly just by virtue of a House or Senate salary these days which I think is in one hundred seventy five thousand dollar. A year range That puts you way up there in terms of reminders incomes And of course you know that's true of all members of Congress the One of the reasons I give is that you've got to maintain a home in your district and you've got to maintain some place to live in Washington when you're down there at Cetera so I don't know if I've I'm wondering. If listeners out there are concerned about Bernie Sanders own personal life financially. And so on and so forth. You feel like that is a An impediment to somebody who wants to get up on on a campaign stop and rail against the rich and the corporations and so on and so forth two four four one seven seven. Seven is the Calling number here in Waterbury. If you'd like to give give us a call and chat about our junior senator in his bid for the Presidency Jim from on the line. Good Morning Jim Martin. I've heard you know most of your show and I know you've gone over a lot of things like what you just went over with the problem with Jane Sanders and how rich Bernie is. Could you spend a minute or two? Maybe talking about something like one of your fellow news media and not not that you're closely related to him but Chris Matthews Comment on Bernie being afraid to be shot if Bernie all murdered by cash people from OKC Castro Cuba On the Schuster New York and You know all going on in the media about well. I think Chris Matthews actually apologize last night for his call match and Also Daud what he was saying about Comparing Bernie to well basically that Hitler GonNa comment on that. Well Yeah I think that a lot of folks have come in and I think there was some comments from Chris Matthews. The host of the show called hardball on. Msnbc IT Airs Evenings at seven PM. And he's he's been quite a critic of Bernie Sanders Over time and one of the things he said the other night had to do I. I don't remember exactly what it was but I think it had to do with Likening Sanders To the Nazis and of course a lot of people took serious offense to this because sanders is Jewish. He actually lost some relatives in the Holocaust in you know during the Second World War and And so that was particularly sort of an egregious offense You know in in the eyes of people. I put myself in that camp. I think that that was a rather outrageous thing to say i. I think that that too many people to easily go to that charge that somebody's acting like a Nazi I think the Nazis were Pretty Pretty Unique Experiment in bad humanity guy. They were unique as in never would never to be preceded or repeated we hope and And and that to be compared to the Nazis at Scott to be something very very serious and straight on in terms of the comparison. I I'm not familiar with the with the died. Comments was the Senator Dodge. Christopher Dodd from Connecticut chucked a chuck. Todd Chuck Todd. Oh right right okay. Yeah I mean. Msnbc is beginning a quite a bit of criticism lately and they're perceived as sort of the left leaning counter to Fox News But they've been pretty hard Bernie Sanders and I. I don't know whether that is because their individual commentators have not like Bernie Sanders or whether they feel like they need to They need to downplay their own. Left leaning tendencies to to Maintain their kind of credibility or exactly what is happening on MSNBC. I don't really see much I they certainly they certainly don't support Bernie Sanders Danny anywhere near the degree to which commentators on Fox News routinely Really cheerlead for president trump. Is it so if it could possibly have something to their ownership of calm cashed you think that could be along with CBS. Your networking all. You know I wonder if I'll anti Bernie that I hear all the time has anything to do with that. Yeah you know I I will tell you that. In my own case I worked for radio station which which is owned by. Cbs which is which takes CBS News. Feed I mean that's I really only relationship with we buy a service from them and I have not been told by anybody here the radio station to go hard on Bernie Sanders go easy on president trump or or anything of the sort. I never have been told I mean basically they they tell me to go on the air and you know the message from the management here is. It's your show Dave and do with what you will I get. I get complaints from some listeners. Occasionally if I'd criticizing he's trump's behavior criticizing less often on on ideology or policy than I do on just the way. He acts toward his fellow. Human beings in way too many cases and abusive language and so on and so forth. But I I know I I really you know I can only speak from my own experience in the media and I really don't don't have any sense of corporate ownership coming down and saying you need to spend it in a certain way that is just never seen. It never felt it and there you go. Hey I thank you very much for the call. Jim I gotta move on but Let's go to let's go to Richard Huntington Good Morning Rich. Good morning gave Great discussion having this morning about a variety of topics did want. I did want to take it a task. For one thing that you mentioned about the Jane Sanders Burlington College thing And you had mentioned about gender independence and you know since we looked at women now to act on their own their own behalf and this was Jane's Problem Not Bernie's problem but I think one thing has to be remembered. Is that Jane on her own accord with never have been presidents. Burlington college on our own accomplishments. If not for the fact that she was married to from US junior senator so I think in that regard Bernie does share some of the culpability wealth. Nothing really came above came out of it. It is still discussed occasionally but I mean I get what you're saying rich and I I think you might have a point of I I will say though that in the case of I mean you're basically your basic argument. She wouldn't have been president of Burlington College. If you hadn't been married to Bernie Sanders. Okay I once. She is president of Burlington College. Really the criticisms directed at her relate to the way she ran the college and its finances and so on and I mean the basic charge. I think was that she overestimated the amount of pledges in a big fundraising drive. The college is putting on. They wanted to do a building project I think. They launched a ten million dollar fund. Drive if I recall I don't have I don't know the facts figures in front of me right now but it was something along those lines and and she was calling locked in and for sure pledges which were maybe effectively that was her alleged fancy really and no one has ever alleged that I've seen that that Bernie. Sanders urged her to do that or did any of that himself. He wasn't going around saying you know my wife has raised them on the following amount of money from pledges for Burlington's college or anything of that sort. He was running his campaign. He was running for Senate whose campaigns in his Senate office during this period and They basically had fairly separate careers You know he would come home on the weekends to Burlington and you know their husband and wife and and all of that but I but I guess the my my sense of it is that That yeah you know. Bird Hundred Biden probably would not have had the seat on the breeze. M- aboard but for his last name and join Senator Jane Sanders Very Likely would have had the chair of the presidency. Burnley College if If her last name we're not sanders. So you know go ahead to the both of those two had that established hundred by James Sanders. Sure you can't really blame Joe Biden for what happened or Bernie Sanders but the fact that punter and then Jane Sanders may have felt that since they were in this position of authority since they were married or related to a person a power that they'd be not only could they get this position of power but they might be able to push things a little far when it comes to Procuring Bank loans and that kind of thing as well. Yeah you know. And that's why I wish I you know one of my biggest kinda long running disappointment especially with Bernie Sanders and frankly is maybe tougher on him than maybe on a little bit unfair to him but but given given his stance about about the corruption of money in society and so on and so forth. You almost wish that he he you know he and Jane both sort of worn hair shirts throughout this last thirty years or whatever it never taken any advantage of their positions at all. I think that would have been a a you know that would have been a better place to be right now at this point in his career. And you know frankly. I think there were times when I mean when Karinna Driscoll's woodworking school gets a government. Grant you Kinda go you know. Somebody might have said to his to his daughter. A politician might his daughter. No you can't apply for the federal grant even if you think your school would get it on. The merits deserves it. Independently it just. We wouldn't look good if you got this federal grant therefore please don't apply or something you know and and I think there there has been insufficient sensitivity To that stuff on his part but again never anything. That that really rose to the level of of Illegality or whatever advantage taking maybe yeah probably so illegality so far nobody's been able to show it a person. Operating independently may have been charged with bank fraud for forgiving false pretenses of of donations of of of supporters of of Fairly College but It it you know we. We can still argue whether whether she was Jane zander whether she was Jane Doe Whether there would have been any any criminals criminal involvement there one last thing on this and I do have to let you go rich but I mean I. I can only note that that gene sanders. They got the letters clearing her of any criminal wrongdoing during a Republican administration when it would have been re Republican appointee president trump's appointee in charge of the US Attorney's office in Burlington so I think there's a layer a layer of insulation there which should defeat Any insinuation that it was merely because of her connection that she was not criminally charged. Anyway I gotTA move along. Thanks for the call. I appreciate it. Let's go to Mike Enorthfield. Good Morning Mike Morning are you doing? I'm well thank you I just wanted to chime in on Bernie and I don't understand why the Democrats and and I'm a Democrat but they seem to be fighting Though the leader the the the one who gets the most votes and everything and they they seem to want to knock him down and I don't I don't understand it. They're a he's the most popular he's got more people who donate to him and And they seem to be. They go from Joe Biden to whoever and then now the now they're even talking about Bloomberg and of all people. He's HE'S IN A. He was a Republican. Then he went independent and anyone Democrat and He he just goes with the wind and as far as I'm concerned he's he's he's spending his money foolishly but it says money to spend but I think you raise a really interesting and pretty basic question here is is is I mean especially this goes on and Bernie. Sanders does score well Even a strong second place in South Carolina and Winds California and other states on Super Tuesday. I think that you are You make a really you. You're asking a very important question. Which is why. Don't the Democrats just get on board? They have a clear leader Let's line up behind the leader and March to victory in November right exactly and and and I and I think you have a really good question. I do think that there is a long history of Democrats being kind of annoyed with Bernie Sanders because he has a. He has a his own history of being shouted at times rather dismissive of Democrats. You know he way back in the eighties when I was first covering Vermont Politics for the Associated Press. He ran as a third party candidate for governor against the Republican Peter Smith in the eventual democratic winner. Madeleine Kunin I believe this was nineteen. Eighty six So Kenyon was running for her second term and second two year term in office and I went to a news conference I remember and it was one of the first times I had just been hired by the AP not long. Before and it was one of the first time I really met her covered Bernie Sanders and he was talking about how the Democratic and Republican parties were. Tweedle dum and tweedle dee as in very little distinction between them and if you're a Democrat who has worked in your parties You know just on issues like abortion rights for instance and you know that. Republicans generally oppose abortion rights. If you've worked on issues like environmental protection and you feel like Republicans aren't as strong on environmental protection as Democrats and go down a list of issues even working on as a as a party regular in the Democratic Party. And then this guy comes on and tells you that you're tweedle dee and tweedle dum with. Republicans that that's gotTa be cut. Frankly kind of annoying doesn't it? May but you know the the Lottery Democrats have actually gone towards the right and Bernie is from the left and he's gone a little bit more towards the center and To Me Ernie is more Democrat than any of the Democrats right now. Well if you're coming out of the all FDR Harry Truman tradition. You might be right about that Came Mike I thank you for the call. Very usually point you make and we'll have to see what unfolds is. It comes along so thanks a lot. Anyway we are fast approaching the top of the hour and I would Pretty much tell me that it's time to wrap up the grab show here in. Wd FM and am. I WanNa thank you all for listening very much. We'll be back with another edition of our program tomorrow. meanwhile Stay tuned for Bill Sair and Common Sense Radio and once again. Don't forget our podcast that we radio DOT COM is the website. Scroll down a bit rather. Follow the link from that homepage. That the Dave Ramsey show. Scroll down a bit and you will find a list of our reason programs. Thank the more in store. They're friendly. Funky world-famous store for their sponsorship of our podcast have a great afternoon. Everybody we'll talk tomorrow.

Bernie Sanders Michael Bloomberg South Carolina Vermont Bernie Bloomberg Shar Biden harassment Elizabeth Warren Nevada Hollywood Harvey Weinstein assault Fidel Castro president United States White House Middlebury College
#137 Nina Harkavy and Lorraine Way on Medical Interpretation

DNA Today

33:31 min | 4 months ago

#137 Nina Harkavy and Lorraine Way on Medical Interpretation

"Want to let you listeners. Know about a new opportunity through gino bank jamaica lousy do participate in the genomics revolution with maximize privacy blockchain networks are. You is to keep track of all the data sets engine reports without exposing your personal data and in turn your family's data bank creates a way for you to decide who has access to your genetic information the aspect. I'm most intrigued. By is how you can take part in research to further science by choosing specific institutions and even projects to contribute your dna. Check it out. Gino bank dot. Io find ourselves surrounded by such such the jeans and megan cheese homemade of dna remain the same automated low. You're listening to teenage today. A genetics podcast and radio show. I'm your host cured nin on the show explore genetics impact on our health through conversations with leaders in genetics such as genetic counselors researchers doctors and advocates this episode. We're exploring medical interpretation. Engine counseling and other areas of healthcare. Joining me argenta counselor nina harvey and interpreter lorraine way nina is a prenatal jank counselor at columbia university. She graduated from the john hopkins university and h. g. r. I gent counseling training programme. Lorraine is a spanish instructor. She actually taught me at sarah lawrence. She's also a medical interpreter and the president of language way a language service company. She has a master's in france from middlebury college where she also studied spanish. Thank you lorraine nina for coming on the show. I'm really excited to dive into talking about interpretation and being able to use interpreters we have a really good show. So thank you so much for coming on. Thanks for having us. Yeah so nina. How has your counselling experience changed you. Previously didn't speak any spanish. And now you have a working proficiency. How has that experience change of going from knowing very very little spanish to now being able to communicate with spanish. Yeah i mean. It's a world of difference. I i cannot even tell you You know it's changed things in so many ways. You know again. The position that i was in when i didn't have any spanish. You feel kind of disconnected from your patient. You're worried that the patient is in getting the level of care that they might get if you understood them more. Clearly you worry that there's a mistake in the interpretation that you won't be aware of so you know being now able to understand what the pianist saying. What the interpreter is saying and to some extent to make myself understood as well. I mean it's it's changed everything it's changed the level of care that i think i provide Because i'm able to understand more directly kind of what the patient is looking for without getting things lost in translation I'm able to just make sure the session is as accurate as possible and correct mistakes as they come up and ask interpreters to clarify And then i also it's interesting. I have some more like cultural insights. Now there are things that i never would have picked up on without understanding the language that are very subtle that now that i understand my patients i kind of get a little bit of a view into what is more relevant for this patient that i might not have considered so everything transparent parent there. Yeah absolutely and i'm just curious When you say some insights culturally can you think of anything specific that jumps out at you. Yeah so. I think you know it helps me. Connect with the patient You know one i guess. One tiny example is that i had a patient. Recently i was asking her why she had a c. section and her response was suppressed. The meant day suppress the mente so she was very much emphasizing supposedly. And you know then she said. I was past my date so the interpreter just said i was past my dates a student in the room right and so the patient and i laugh because she's from a country where they do a lot of c sections that may not be medically necessary. So she and. I now have this understanding of leg. I just had a c. section. Because you know and the student was like hey i feel like i miss something because you and the patient had this moment where you guys laughed about something but the interpreter said she was pastor dates like what was funny about that. So it's like that. What a great example. I'm sure that really helps you build rapport with patients. Instead of sometimes i've seen when genetic counselors and other healthcare providers this kind of applies to anyone in the healthcare field that everybody's looking at the phone and not hr whereas i'm sure now you're looking at each other and the interprets chiming in helping making sure your your understanding at that hundred percent but picking up on so many more subtleties in really having that human to human connection whereas sometimes that's lacking when you're totally reliant on an interpreter for sure i mean. My patients might start by kind of talking to the phone because the interpreter is by phone but then as soon as they realized that i understand them which they realized very quickly. Even if i don't explicitly state they realized that i'm understanding them. First of all they're so happy That i can understand them. And then they look directly at me. They stopped saying sentences like tell her knee They just talk directly to me. I think they're more likely to disclose information to me. Because they know. I'm going to understand what they're saying And it just again tiny little things that you wouldn't think about like my patients getting culturally. Some are more likely to use terms of endearment or like pet names And so i hear frequently patients say mea more. I think that that's nice in the sense that they maybe that means they know. I'm being sincere. So even if they're about to decline everything i'm offering them and they're like no but thank you me a more. I really appreciate you taking the time. The interpreter has never ever translated that. I've never heard an interpreter. Translate that phrase. So it's like. I'm so glad that i know that they're saying that. And i think that that means they feel a little bit more connected to me than they otherwise. Would you're not missing those subtleties. That are really in yet or in that. Yeah maybe when you're being able to interpret that direct language like okay. Yep we cover this. We covered this. But it's like. Counseling is not just the information given otherwise we would have people a packet a comment to nina. Just said which. I find very interesting. That the Interpreters you're not interpreting those terms of endearment As says a trained interpreter we are. We have a pretty much a code of ethics to interpret everything that the provider is saying including homes in pauses in non verbal forms of communication and tone You we're we have that. That's what our job is to interpret all of that too so i'm a little surprised that they're always omitting that. It's curious to me on. But i'm thrilled that Because of your knowledge of spanish you're able to pick up on those subtleties bill. The report with the patient. What are some general tips. You have four working interpreters for the counselors listening. The healthcare providers will some may be obvious to people who are currently working with interpreters on a regular basis But we actually are in our pre session. We are also trained to ask you to speak to cause frequently. that's a big one It's easy to get caught up in what you're trying to convey to a person in especially in an emotional situation and start speaking more rapidly and with longer sentences that are always harder to interpret with a high level of accuracy. So i would say. The pausing frequently is one Speaking in somewhat shorter sentences somewhat not always In than if you can't it all in avoiding idiomatic jargon slang and idiomatic expressions are harder harder to be highly accurate in interpretive environment. It's not that it can't be done. It's just getting harder because any form of familiar. Language is deeply rooted in the specific country. Sometimes the specific town so There's just too many variables there so If you speak more standard language claim terms Commonly used a vocabulary on those are some good things that are helpful in interpretation so staying away from oh i was so engagement is glued to the tv. Because that's not gonna translate very well using something like that what you mean. Yes and no. That's that's a good example Interest to note that interpreters are required to interpret manning and not words right on so glued to the tv we might we might say attached to the tv and the interpretation in spanish might sound like attached to the tv and not use the word glued. Because that's probably what they would be using so That's that is actually very important in the turn. In terms of interpretation it's not words its meaning And that's where you get at. What the differences between translation interpretation. Because we've been talking about interpretation. But can you differentiate the two for our audience yes translation is the written word. Only interpretation is oral only so they're not interchangeable translation is going to have a more exact quality Because you have time to research if you're actually translating a written page or a book or an article or anything that somebody's doing or medical notes If there's something you don't know you look it up. You have multiple dictionaries and you'll get very very exact interpretation when i say meaning not words. We'll go back to one of the examples a you used a somewhat slang expression rate if somebody says oh i'm just pulling your leg that's like an idiot matic slang expression But the interpreter might might interpret that. I'm just teasing and there's no loss in the interpretation because you are have accurately conveyed meaning whereas in a written document a translation. That's not acceptable. You need to go back and find that as close to another equivalent if there's sometimes there's no equivalent but often there is So you have to find that correctly. Translate that in writing along those lines. What are a few concepts that are challenging to interpret and spanish. Nina's there a concept that you've come across a lot that you're like this. I always have to phrase very specifically or have to say it very different that i would in english. Yeah there's in particular so one that comes up in every session actually both come up in every session. But one would be carrier the term carrier and i think that especially in interpreting for genetics and i thought this was maybe my biased. Because i'm genetics. But i talked to a couple other healthcare providers and they said one of the hardest things with using an interpreter in genetics. Is that many words. Don't have a synonym. You just have to define the word And so the word carrier for example has its own connotation. We know what we're saying. If i say the phrase if you and your partner are carriers of the same thing you may have a child who has the disease that does not get translated correctly because there is inherent context. That were not explaining right. The word carrier has its own context. So what happens is the translation ends up being. If you have a disease in your partner has a disease your child may have a disease. And that's obviously not what i'm saying so i've learned to be super careful about you. Know saying if you are a carrier of a genetic condition meaning that you don't have any symptoms and you are healthy and your partner is a carrier of the same condition is also healthy. There is a chance that both a healthy mother and a healthy father may have a child who does have symptoms and is not healthy and it sounds kind of repetitive. Using a lot of the same words over and over. But i'm trying to get meaning across Rather than relying on the word carrier to include meeting because otherwise again it just it gets lost So that's one. That is is constant. I really have to define carrier in order to use it The other one that comes up a lot is is it's really tricky to do a pregnancy history And lorraine and i definitely talked about this a lot because the word abort though is nonspecific. It doesn't tell me whether that was a miscarriage or a termination And you know so when a patient answers a question with oh that pregnancy resulted in alberto. I don't i don't know what that means without Further clarification and that being said you know often. I've noticed if i ask if a patient has had any terminations they're automatically like four terminations forty weeks and you're like Okay and by that. You mean terminated completed the pregnancy. So it's like that often also gets lost in translation where they're saying yeah. I had four complete forty week. Pregnancies term pregnancies not termination which we know to mean abortion right sued their confusing. The word jeremy nada with their. You know right outta is To end But therapy now is the is what you're looking for for something going to term may and you're right to avoid conflict confusion in case you're interpreter is not picking up on nuance. There horton sphere. Meaning there than you would definitely need to add that. Follow up question absolutely we. You're still drying pedigrees by hand in twenty twenty. Don't worry we have a solution for you. Feel tips complete. Sonoma health record not only hasn't to pedigree drawing tool allowing you capture complete family history two and a half times faster than pen and paper. It has a pre visit patient questionnaire that auto draws your patients pedigree customizable into multiple languages on top of pedigrees that draw themselves. You can capture all relevant patient information and get diagnostic insights in six different languages. This ensures clear communication with your patient no matter what language. They're comfortable with as we're learning. This episode clear accessible communication is the heart of empathizing understanding and supporting your patients. See for yourself. You can book a short demo at pheno. Tips dot com again. Find them at pheno. Tips dot com. I'm also the host of the tips speaker series where have interviewed genetic counselors about topics like tell me digital tools leadership and precision medicine. You can watch all these free. Webinars on. Demand at tips dot com. Just click the stories tab and you can stay tuned for future installments in twenty twenty one and nina. Do you have a way of checking with patients that their understanding the information. I mean there's ways that you know sometimes in english you can really sense if someone is understanding and sometimes you can and that's a whole another another area but with spanish there is more of a barrier. There you're you're taking down the barrier quite a bit of understanding and being able to communicate in spanish but certain ways that you're able to check in with them without feeling like maybe you're quizzing them. Is there an approved and you learn to kind of finesse. Yeah you know that that idea of quizzing them is so damaging you don't want them to feel like you're giving them a pop quiz especially if they're from a culture that really does not want to be seen as incorrect or or stupid unintelligent So i think you know some of it is context rates if you ask a question and you get an answer. That doesn't quite make sense like have you had a termination. Yep at forty weeks. You're like nope wait. Something right there And then also so Occasionally the questions that they ask me like okay so if this is positive i need my partner to come in for testing like great. That shows me at least got something about the carrier screening aspect that it's for both parents And my favorite is actually if they have someone with them or somebody on the phone that they are interpreting too in spanish lake if their partner is like wait i'm confused and then the patient explains to the partner. What they're doing. I love that. Because then if i hear the patient explain it correctly usually in like a very kind of basic level because they're talking to their partner. It's amazing because i'm like oh you absolutely got it. I can hear you explaining it. Yeah it's a good feeling when you can say okay. I've really you know. Drinking sessions aren't super super long. Usually you have a lot of that are moving in and out and so to be able to teach them that information and seeing that they actually have is like you have that teacher moment of like. Wow okay my paycheck got it proud. I'm glad that's could come across well. And i'm sure using translators too that sometimes there's miscommunication what them not even the patient but just between you and the translator. What have you found to be sources of that miscommunication and then we can hear from lorraine side. Yes so again. I think a lot of it has to do with like you know where you're going with these questions. And some of your words have context inherent in them. The interpreter does not know where you're going with things so sometimes it's just an issue of they're not even translated incorrectly or poorly. It just didn't get across like in the carrier example. But i've had these kind of disturbing examples that have come up where if i didn't understand spanish like i'd be really concerned for how that session would have played out because you know in one session. For example i had a patient. We had diagnosed a fetal heart defect. And so i knew the patient was in a little bit of denial and the ice started the session. By saying you know we know that there is a problem with the baby's heart but right now we don't know why and that was translated as we don't know if there's a problem with the baby's heart rate healed me and i don't like i don't know exactly what happened there. I don't know why that was the translation per se. If i wasn't clear but i immediately had to jump on that and be like actually interpreter. that's incorrect. i'm sorry but it's really important that you clarify there is definitely a problem with the heart. The only part i don't know is why You know sometimes. I don't know why there's a miscommunication But i appreciate when the interpreter tries to resolve it. I appreciate when the interpreter pauses to ask for clarification And i struggle with when an interpreter. Maybe doesn't understand what i'm saying but ask so. Sometimes what happens is all say a word that they aren't familiar with like amniocentesis. The majority of them will ask me. You know for more information about that word but some people just kind of it. Like make up a word like i'll say amniocentesis and they'll be like amnio natta and i'm like what just happened like why so i've learned to you know if there's a word that i want them to use carefully. I will spell it for them or i will provide them. The word that i want carrier should be translated as porta door. Porta dora. if it's anything else it's typically like incorrect and so i've been really careful about spelling words for people so that they're giving the correct word or about providing them with the word that i want them to use and lowering. Did you want to jump in on your side of we're miscommunication can go wrong. Well i do want to comment on a couple of the example Examples nina brought up and also to her point of Sometimes the interpreter doesn't know where the provider is going Sue as you know Medicine is a huge field so you are receiving somebody as a medical interpreter. They're definitely not going to have the expertise in every area. That you that you might need them to want them to. So it's common for certain Certain medical terms that Interpreter may not have come across Amnio sintesis is not one of those words that i feel Although in quite a number of countries they don't even have have access to an annual sintesa or may have even occurred it which for our world is Sounds very unusual but In my interpreter course the remain countries. That didn't have tested all and there was no word in their language for that test So you can have that that arises but to the specific alarming example. That nina did give I do not see any reason for that to not have been interpreted exactly accurately And fortunately she does speak quite enough spanish to know the difference in intercede end. Ask for a correction for sure I i myself have enormous exposure to medical experienced having grown up with a mother who's a nurse in a number of doctors in my family have been Teaching medical spanish for over twenty years. So in i still don't of course know everything but far from right. I'm learning all the time as we all are But so for my own personal experience. I'm going to have a a little bit of a better understanding of where the provider might be going with something But absolutely don't hesitate to stop and ask or even if you find that that particular in turk- interpreters struggling way too much or you find wage many inaccuracies to switch interpreters. If it's on the phone or if it's face to face to ask for different interpreter you have every right to and you really have an obligation to the patient to say this. I can tell that this is not going right and say i'm sorry interpreter. I'm gonna have to get someone else. And that really is your responsibility as a healthcare provider and look those points. The interpreter was breaking code of ethics. They are never so no one is ever supposed to make up a word if they don't end up right. I mean that's that sounds obvious but we do receive this training as part of our program you know in in a professional medical certificate or cert you are trained in those ethics that If you do not know you ask the provider. If it's a it's a word you don't know you as the provider to explain what that word is. I if i were to end up in certain points of oncology i may not know some words I do a fair amount mental health Genetic and other specialties. But i might. They might elude me with some specialized term in oncology. So i might have to ask the colleges. Could you please explain what that is. And lauren what is involved. You said a little bit of of the training process but what is required to actually become a medical interpreter. Because i think a lot of people. I didn't know before being your student of what is required of medical interpreters to be able to be in this role so There is a very wide range that you're going to see an experience and you probably would know just by working with some of the interpreters those that have the higher levels of trainings versus those. Who don't sue at the top level. There is a national A national organization that certifies medical interpreters on this is going to become the golden standard but it is not yet the golden standard. The people that have that background are going to have a bachelor's a master's degree of they may also have a degree in interpretation from one of the schools in this country or abroad And then they would have to pass extensive examinations in this national news certification for medical interpreters That's a very high standard most of the interpreters that you're having work that you use are not going to have that standard those that i have seen on based on my small experience on this field of the reason is my primary field in languages has been Teaching translation and now interpretation. So i experienced interpreting but not as much as translation and teaching medical spanish Sued the access. That i have to that right now is got the those that have the higher higher higher levels Might be a one or two face to face hospital. Interpreters that are hiding their also. Supervising the team of interpreters If you start going down the scale sadly enough. When i started to look for work to supplement my income in medical interpretation almost all of the ads at high school diploma and Those people may or may not they. Mostly if they're higher by an agency or by telephone interpretive service they have passed some kind of test to get hired in that's usually audio A prerecorded audio tests that they have to turpin. That's graded that's recorded in graded. It's that type of test not I don't know if some of them have written tests. I haven't seen that yet So at the very low level which could be Quite a number of interpreters that you're that you have on you could abc someone with a high school diploma that has made the certificate of relief. five weeks certificate medical interpretation on at the top level master's plus plus extensive certification experiences. So the range is huge. And i think that's part of what's going on in the prussian that it's starting to They're starting to work toward more higher level professionalism and more standardization It's just a field. That interpretation by and large in this country has not been enormously standardized. Yeah i think that's a really good point in just that. Healthcare providers may not know really the extent of like how much the interpreter has in their background of education. I think beforehand. I thought that oh. They must have a master's. That's kind of what i was thinking. And that's not the case always going to be aware of and all right and another point of just kind of throughout this episode that we've had is any amount of another language that you can learn is advantageous and i. I hear this a lot in the field from students saying our medical spanish class at sarah lawrence college only some students took it. It's an elective and so you know some people were saying what's the point in just learning little bit. I'm gonna use an interpreter anyway. I think me taking this class. I've really seen the other side of it is like the more i know the more. I'm able to see if the translator is accurately doing this and connect with my patient. Even just a little bit. If i'm asking them how they are. What their name is. And so. i think that's a really good point that i just wanted to pull out because i think you guys have really highlighted that a lot nina. I'm sure you can agree with me on that that. Yeah i think that that's so valuable because again as somebody who was just learning spanish from beginning you know in my bunnies and this is going to apply to a lot of training genetic counselors who twenties thirties. Whatever learning spanish for the first time. I don't want people to get discouraged by like well. i'm not fluent. I'm not gonna be fluent for a long time. Like i don't care it's so helpful it is. It is so dramatically changed. You know how i interact with patients and the level of care. I provide that you know. I would love for this to be standard. Genetic counselors should have training in spanish. So i just think no matter what. Like any little comprehension that you can get better than none. Yeah and i hope that too. I sure in the future. I don't know how soon but we'll see this start to be part of the accreditation board saying okay programs need to have this offered maybe are required to take it but have it be offered because not as far as i'm aware of programs that i've talked to other students. There's not a lot of schools that offer this. It's something that students seek outside of their curriculum. And so yeah. I think ingredient on that. It's it's really important. And i think that's kind of myth bossed a little bit of learn a little bit if you can kind of keep going from there on idea of something to say on that It's absolutely amazing to me to see. How are people actually progress in a short period of time Sue one of my current students has studied spanish for a year. she has been working Really working in the language after nine months at the nine month mark. She stood at to really work. I'm in now I think her sessions mostly go with. She has the interpreter present on the line. If she needs it but she she tells them. I'm leading the session in all. Ask you if i need anything from you and i mean this is the type of thing that can happen. The other thing that i wanna point out especially since since People are still in graduate school taking these classes. You're at the point in your life where you might start with a little. You make start with three months or six months. Which is a small amount of spanish. That can get you quite far in In some regards. But maybe not able to do your entire session in spanish spanish right at that point in your career. Oh my gosh on even If you end up studying spanish for two or three years effectively on you you will be working in spanish in your career in your lifetime. Because you're early on in your career. Which is a beautiful thing And i do. I do hope that most programs start going toward the the The concept of it as part of their curriculum. Because we really at that point now in. It's really exciting to see that happening. Very very well said. And i think we left the listeners. A lot to think about and hopefully start brushing up on their spanish or diving into other languages. So thank you both for coming on a really appreciate being able to dive into this different kind of episode different topic for healthcare providers. Thank you so much. Thank you you can check out the rains website. The language way dot com and dna podcast dot com. Has all the information. You're gonna need about dna today. I have so many other interviews with jenna counselors are probably my most popular guests that come on the show. So you can check out interviews genetic counselors and many more types of gas all on dna podcast dot com. The podcast players don't have all of the episodes because there's over one hundred so in order to listen to all the episodes you have to go to the website. Podcast dot com. If you're on twitter. I'd love to connect with you at dna podcast instagram. I'm at dna radio. Any questions for myself. Nina or lorraine can be sent into info at dna. Podcast dot com. There's also a contact form on the website. If that's easier for you. We are happy to answer any questions that you thought of throughout the episode or if you have comments on what we discussed you have some insight to share that wasn't expressed during the episode. Or you want to echo something we did say. E mail in info at dna. Podcasts dot com. If you haven't already pleased drop a rating and review on the podcast app. You listen to especially if it's apple. It's really quick and helps the show. Imagine a health record system. That's actually designed for genomics available in six different languages incomplete with pedigree drying diagnostic and sites and more. We'll stop imagining in start using because pheno. Tips is nothing like your. Hr it's the world's first genomic health record system that captures family history seamlessly regardless of the language. Patients are comfortable with because clear. Communication is the root of supportive. Care visit funeral tips dot com to learn more. Be sure to check out. Gino bank as i mentioned before they are non. Dna storage and sharing platform that is completely controlled by you. With blockchain technology other companies share their data. And it's not locked down. Here's the really cool aspect about chino. Bank you can choose who you are sharing your dna with including researchers. That's right you can be a partner in research by choosing specific institutions who can use your dna and their research projects. Gino bank is like a matchmaker between researchers and people like you who want to contribute their dna toward scientific advancements. You can even get paid for your valuable dna. You also have control to decide how long researchers have to your genetic information has officially launched so head over to gene bank dot i o. To explore more and kit again. That's gino bank dot. Io to join the genomic revolution. Thanks for listening and join me next time to learn. Discover new advances in the world of genetic you'll omega dna.

nina Gino bank lorraine gino bank jamaica nina harvey john hopkins university lorraine nina jeremy nada sarah lawrence middlebury college spanish lake Lorraine columbia university fetal heart defect amnio natta Porta dora Amnio sintesis Nina manning
Ron Brown Pt. 1

Conspiracy Theories

45:53 min | Last month

Ron Brown Pt. 1

"There was one fifty five pm on april third. Nineteen ninety six flight. Ifo twenty one. A us military passenger jet was five minutes ahead of schedule. The journey from bosnia. Croatia should have taken under an hour. But today's weather was less than ideal. Air force. captain's ashleigh davis and tim schafer called their destination for climate report it was overcast with patches of rain nothing. These pilots had navigated before that around two fifty four. Pm the plane passed over the radio beacon side the airport in dubrovnik croatia. They were traveling slightly faster than the recommended speed. But there were some dignitaries on board the least these pilots could do keep them on schedule. As they approached the captain's told air control. They were ready to land but an off duty controller named leandra glue. Han knew that wasn't the case. Blue on live close to the airport and if a plane was on course it passed in front of her house so when she heard the roar of a jet through her rear windows she knew something was seriously wrong. Three minutes after the plane contacted the control tower the clouds cleared. It was then the captain's realized they were doomed saint. John's hill was directly in front of the cockpit. The aircraft's sped into the mountaintop at a speed of one hundred and seventy two miles per hour. The impact clip the engine and the right wing before snapping the tail. The plane skidded down the slope. Sending thirty five passengers to their death amongst the bodies were respected members of the united states. Air force the commerce department and a reporter for the new york times but the most memorable was secretary of commerce ron brown he may have been the reason. The plane went down in the first place Welcome to conspiracy theories a spotify original from podcast. Every monday and wednesday we dig into the complicated stories behind the world's most controversial events in search for the truth. I'm carter roy. And i'm ali brandenburg and neither of us are conspiracy theorists but we are open minded skeptical and curious. Don't get us wrong sometimes. The official version is the truth. But sometimes it's not you can find episodes of conspiracy theories and all other spotify originals from park asked for free on spotify or wherever. You listen to podcasts. This is our first episode on. Us secretary of commerce ron brown appointed under the clinton administration brown was the first black official to lead the democratic national committee and serve in his cabinet position in today's episode will follow ron brown's career from his time in the national urban league to assisting in the election of democratic president bill clinton. Then we'll look at ron brown's and started death in nineteen ninety-six on our next episode. We'll unpack the dark side of secretary brown detailing. His illicit affairs and political corruption will also analyze the april nineteen ninety-six crash. Its potential cover up. And who benefited from having brown dead. We have all that and more coming up. Stay with us. This episode is brought to you by carmax at carmax. The best way to buy a car is your way. Choose from over. Fifty thousand carmax certified vehicles at carmax dot com and buy online or in store with curbside pickup and home delivery in select markets. Get all the details today. At carmax dot com. If you're tuning in chances are you've got quite the imagination for the dark dangerous and deceitful. Cool for podcasts. But not so cool for your safety for peace of mind consider. Adt as the leader in home security adt provides twenty four seven rapid response monitoring from their nine owned and operated call centers. So the only thing you have to worry about is the wifi connection to keep listening. Learn more at adt dot com. This episode is brought to you by cvs health. If someone you love is at risk of a fall the symphony medical alert system by cvs health can help support their safety at home with twenty four seven emergency response monitoring. It helps keep an eye on their wellbeing when you can't be their terms and conditions apply learn more about symphony at cvs dot com slash symphony. Or find it at your nearest cvs health hub. Nineteen fifty five was a year of walking contradictions. Ripe with both social progress and degradation throughout america in alabama a twenty six year old minister named martin. Luther king was leading a bus boycott in defiance of segregation in mississippi. A fourteen year old black boy named emmett till was murdered for allegedly saying the words by aby to a white woman. Meanwhile the twentieth centuries first black baseball player to play in the nation's major leagues. Jackie robinson was about to help lead the brooklyn dodgers to a world series. Win coming of age during these confounding times was a thirteen year. Old black american named ron brown that summer. His life changed when he shook the hand of vice president. Richard nixon at the hotel theresa in harlem new york brown never forgot the moment he stared into nixon smug face as they smiled for the cameras. Not sure if it was nixon's demeanor is policy or something he said but the boy knew from that moment on he would be on the opposite side of the political spectrum. Whereas nixon was a staunch. Republican brown would become a consummate democrat. Ron brown showed qualities of a great political leader. As early as age five. He was already reading the newspaper studying french and sharpening his social skills. His cousin bobby jones recalled even as a youngster. He made you feel that you were. The only person he wanted to talk to. This was thanks to his father. Bill brown who was a good role model. Bill worked for progressive government programs like fdr's federal housing and home financing administration. His job was to secure homes for low income families but his work moved his own family around the country. Making it hard for young ron to establish normalcy in nineteen forty seven. Bill began managing harlem's famed hotel theresa. The location was an upscale destination for black celebrities. Athletes politicians and civil rights leaders. The browns took up residency on the top floor of the hotel here. Six year old. Ron was exposed to a life of luxury. Guests spoiled him with trips to plays and sporting events and introductions to celebrities experiences that were rare for a black boy growing up in nineteen fifty harlem la later that decade. The family fell on hard times. Bill lost his job and moved his family to the suburbs. He sold beauty supplies and insurance just to get by the comforts of their previous life. Were a distant memory. One that took an emotional toll causing ron's parents to file for divorce when he was a teenager in the aftermath. Ron gave up on his academics. Free time that should have been dedicated to. his studies. were spent placating his mother's depression despite his lack of focus. Ron graduated with an acceptance to middlebury college in vermont. When ron brown arrived in nineteen fifty eight. He was one of only three. Black students enrolled in the university but he wasn't intimidated brands. Confidence allowed him to achieve many firsts at middlebury college one of the most defining moments was when he became the first black man to join sigma phi epsilon a previously on white fraternity. Unfortunately brown place too much emphasis on perfecting his social skills his academics declined and he flunked out of middlebury but the eighteen year old saw the pitfall as another obstacle to overcome brown used his powers of persuasion to negotiate with the college administration winning his way back into middlebury. It was a shrewd skill. One that would prove useful throughout his career on labor day weekend. Nineteen fifty-nine brown's life changed forever. He met the love of his life. Alma arrington the pair had a lot in common having both grown up in middle class black families with similar interests for nearly a year. They exchanged letters from their respective campuses. Meanwhile brown enrolled for middlebury is reserve officers training corps. The honor of serving his country in the rotc coincided with his marriage to all my in the summer of nineteen sixty two. Their love was put to the test. When brown deployed to korea in one thousand nine hundred sixty six it was there. He received his first taste of leadership. He trained soldiers assigned to the korean augmentation to the. Us army is known as catoosa tusa. Essentially catoosa was a military ambassador program bringing in soldiers from the south korean army to work positions within the us. Military brown rewrote the curriculum for this program turning it into one of the best institutions in the army according to his lieutenants after returning home in nineteen sixty. Seven brown was faced with a difficult decision. Renew his service or continue life as a civilian. It was at this crossroads. That has serendipitous. Opportunity came his way. Brown learned of a job opening at the national urban league. A nonpartisan civil rights agency who fought for social justice on behalf of the black community essentially the league helped secure jobs. Education and housing brown became a trainee advisor at the bronx new york branch. His task was to find businesses with job openings and established training programs to prepare black candidates. The urban league was also supportive of its own employees with their flexible hours. They encourage staff members to continue with their degrees. Brown took advantage of this opportunity by attending law school between one thousand nine hundred sixty seven in one thousand nine hundred. Seventy ron brown studied law at saint. John's university meanwhile america was experiencing unprecedented changes when it came to social justice. The new left pushed the boundaries of sexuality. Feminism and abortion the black panthers storm the california capitol building demanding equality for all campuses nationwide felt the effects of mario savvy does free speech protests that rocked. Uc berkeley time on the operation of the machine becomes so odious makes just so sick at heart. But you can't take part you can't even pass only take part and you've got to put your bodies upon the gears upon the wheels upon the levers all the apparatus and you've got to make it stop and you've got to indicate to the people run it to the people who own it that unless you're free machine welby prevented working at all when the ohio national guard opened fire on kent state students protesting the vietnam war. The landscape of american universities changed drastically saint. John's was no different brown. Used his resources from the league and encourage the school's administration to sit down with its student leaders and black power groups as one of the students leading the negotiations. He persuaded the faculty to adhere to their demands and thanks to his efforts saint john's began hiring more black teachers and enrolling more black students. In the spring of one thousand nine hundred seventy brown graduated with his law degree and passed the new york bar exam the following year even with his shiny new credentials brown remained loyal to the league at age thirty. He was promoted to their general counsel reviewing the organization's upcoming plans and programs to make sure they acted in accordance with the law. A couple years later he was named director of the national urban league's washington bureau. It was the perfect fit for brown. Who had known since age thirteen that he loved rubbing elbows with capitol hill's elite now. he'd be the liaison. between the league's programs and federal agencies. Brown skills as an intermediary did not go unnoticed. Some six years later in the fall of nineteen seventy nine. The campaign manager for senator. Ted kennedy called. He wanted to know if brown would consider a new position helping. Ted kennedy become president as in any campaign risk was involved. These operations could run out of money or in a more likely scenario. Kennedy could lose the election in brown could be back to looking for work. But that didn't matter to brown or his wife alma despite having a mortgage to young children she supported his transition into politics so he quit his job at the league in join senator kennedy on the campaign trail. Officially brown's job was to help with political strategy but his real job was to attract the support of black americans. Coming up ron brown secures. Another i with the democratic national committee. Hi vanessa from podcast network. And i'm thrilled to tell you that this month marks a huge milestone for us. It's the four year anniversary of a podcast. I host called serial killers. If you haven't had a chance to dive into the stories and psychology behind the most nightmarish murderers of all time. Why wait there's no better time than right now to start listening each week. We enter the minds the methods and the madness of the world's most sadistic serial killers from the son. Of sam david berkowitz and the co ed killer edmund. Kemper i lean warner. Bros ed gain and coming soon the night stalker richard ramirez and this february lookout for our four part special lawn couples who kill following the worst love has to offer their names may sound ordinary but their atrocities are anything but you do not want to miss it with hundreds of episodes available to binge and new ones released weekly get to know the killer's crimes and cases that forever changed the face of history. Follow the spotify original from podcast. Serial killers new episodes air every monday and thursday freon spotify or wherever you get your podcasts this is a psa black storytelling is getting its own platform on facebook. And they're calling it. We the culture expect to see black excellence. Vibrant dynamic taking up space unapologetically black from entertainment lifestyle outdoors comedy. You name it. This is a new home for black content. Let's celebrate and share black creativity. Join the community follow we the culture on all social media platforms now back to the story. In december nineteen seventy-nine brown. Found himself on senator ted kennedy's estate in west palm beach florida. He'd reached paradise both literally and figuratively. Here he was chatting political strategy with a potential president. The united states the democratic primaries were right around the corner kennedy knew he stood a tough chance winning against incumbent. President jimmy carter but brown. Didn't see it that way. As a man of firsts himself he had faith kennedy could win over. The black vote insecure the oval office as part of their strategy. Brown suggested kennedy spent time campaigning. Black churches in news outlets while developing relationships with black celebrities and organizations but the campaign's lack of funds made outreach difficult. Kennedy's team barely raised enough money to pay their own employees not to mention. The senator was polling poorly in iowa and new hampshire important states for the nomination. Browns cool head and positive attitude kept kennedy in. The running fact is soothing. Demeanor landed him. The role of deputy campaign manager. After that brown's newest challenge was a sizable one he was tasked with winning over the state of california and since the campaign no longer had money to produce ads and purchase airtime brown gut creative. He used what little money the kennedys had to create inexpensive commercials an air them on low-cost markets. It was brown's ingenuity that one. Kennedy the vote in california after that people started asking win. Was ron brown. Going to run for office despite kennedy's progressive policies and brown sway with the black community. The senator never made it past the primaries in august. Nineteen eighty kennedy conceded the nomination to jimmy carter at the democratic national convention. Let me say a few words to all those that i have met and to all those who have supported me at this convention and across the country there were hard on our journey and often we sailed against the wind but always kept our rutter true and there were so many of you who stayed the course and shared our hope. You gave your help but even more you gave your hearts and because of you this has been a happy campaign you welcome joan me in our family into your homes neighborhoods your churches your campuses you're union halls and when i think back of all the miles and all the months and all the memories i think of you and i recall the poets words and i say what golden friends i had. It didn't take long for brown to get back on his feet. Thanks to the kennedys. He became the deputy chair and the general counsel for the democratic national committee in nineteen eighty one. The organization was the governing body for the democratic party helping to get their candidates elected on a local state and national level. As the committee's lawyer brown needed a firm to call home so his old boss kennedy put in a call to one of the most authoritative practices in the country patton boggs and blow and they didn't just hire brown. They made him a partner. Brown's salary went from around sixty five thousand dollars a year up to a reported. Two hundred thousand dollars. Now brown could resurrect the comforts. He missed from his childhood. The cushy job paid for expensive cars fine dining and prep schools browns kids under the firm's unofficial slogan. You eat what you kill brown new. He'd have to bring in some big fish if you wanted to maintain this lifestyle at first brown juggled his role with the dnc and the firm with ease his job as deputy chair meant brown had his eye out for fresher forward thinking democrats to fill the party. One committee official remarked. How brown was single handedly responsible for bringing more women into the policy-making circle meanwhile over at patton boggs and blow brown was perfecting his skills in lobbying meaning. He influenced political decisions on behalf of powerful companies and organizations. Brown's job was to introduce these clients two federal agencies and officials who might sway the law in their favor no matter how corrupt brown always saw way to rationalize his clients. 'cause in frame it with a humanitarian angle for example. One of brown's most dubious clients was the government of haiti in one thousand. Nine hundred eighty. Three haiti was ruled by a dictator named jean claude. Duvalier haiti was looking to secure federal aid from the us so they hired brown to lobby for those funds on capitol hill. According to brown's daughter tracy took on the fascist regime for the good of its people. He didn't believe the citizens of haiti should be punished for the actions of their leadership except brown got more out of the transaction than heroism in. Tracy's book the life and times of ron brown. She claims haiti wasn't receiving any government aid from the us at the time mainly because they've been violating human rights policies. According to her brown convinced the duvalier regime to change how they treated their people. If they could prove they were evolving the us government would be more inclined to give them federal aid. But jack castle author. Of ron brown's body says this wasn't exactly the case. According to cashel. Haiti was already getting federal relief from the united states. Thirty eight million dollars. A year to be exact. What brown did was manipulated. Haiti's image in order to secure them more funding from the american government in doing so brown managed to up the dictatorships pay to fifty five million dollars per year. All of which might have seemed above board had it actually benefited. The people of haiti but brown reportedly made sure the money went directly into the pockets of do volume rather than private programs. It was out of this relationship with haiti. That brown began his signature. Trade missions the goal of these trips was to introduce government officials and ceos to foreign countries only hope of sparking international business opportunities specifically brown wanted to introduce black owned american companies to the haitian economy problem was according to cash l. the businesses. He introduced them to were owned by the dictator duvalier and his associates and one of those black owned companies called harman international belong to ron brown himself. In the end cashel claims. That brown made a significant bonus collecting cut of the imports and exports from haiti. Well claiming it was for the good of the haitian people. Then in nineteen eighty-five a constitutional referendum gave the duvalier regime more power than ever before it reconfirmed him as president for life and gave him the power to select a prime minister as well as his next successor. The people of haiti had reached a breaking point that year citizens rose up against the duvalier regime and the reagan administration suspended all aid to the country but that reportedly didn't stop brown from trying to lobby at back. The haitian revolt was successful. The following year duvalier leftist post and fled to france but a former associate of brown's named nolanda hill claimed that the corporate looting didn't stop it's unclear for how long but brown apparently continued to profit off of the haitian people even after the fall of the fascist regime. This history with haiti would continue to haunt brown for his entire career. Despite being one of the firm's biggest moneymakers brown felt unfulfilled yearn for his days in public service and decided it was time to fully immerse himself in politics in november. One thousand nine hundred eighty eight. He calmly gauged almost perspective. Saying quote. honey. You know. I'm really thinking i'd like to run for chairman of the party. He was referring to the highest ranking position in the democratic national committee. A seat that only ever been filled by white men brown must have sensed opportunity on the horizon because in december of that year the current. Dnc chair paul kirk said he'd be stepping down as soon as brown announced. He was running as kirks replacement. He received significant backlash. According to brown's daughter tracy louisiana state. Chair james j. Grady told brown that voters wouldn't be comfortable with him in this position of power. He said they risked. The south seceding from the party. Entirely louisiana senator. John breaux also told brown. He wasn't right for the job. Bro said it would send the wrong message. If a black man were to lead the democratic party this was the first time brown had experienced such glaring racism in his career. Those who once supported him now told him he was overstepping boundaries. It was a heartbreaking realization. Despite being in their tax bracket he wasn't earning the same respect as his white counterparts. The worst of it came during a dnc meeting in atlanta has the candidates for chairwoman announced one by one. They were greeted with standing ovations instead. When ron brown's name was called he walked on stage to silence he was met with blank and looks of disgust. Brown later said of that moment. I felt like a penny waiting for change. But this wasn't enough to thwart him instead. He did what he knew best. He called every dnc member who shunned him in atlanta and sweet. Talk them into support. He pitched his plans for the next presidential election and spoke about reuniting they're divided party. It also helps that. He was neither liberal nor conservative he appealed to both sides of the spectrum brown one over the members one by one in february nineteen eighty nine. He was unanimously voted as the first black chair of the democratic national committee. Bod he had his work cut out for him. His number one task was making sure. A democrat was named president in the next election. Meanwhile brown hired younger members. People of color and more women to help run the party. He showed drive and passion for every electoral race local state or otherwise. He raised more money for the dnc than anyone else had. Before by the nineteen ninety s brown was the most powerful democrat in america but now he prepared for his most important task to date finding the perfect presidential candidate. He knew america needed someone. They could trust someone they respected. Who could also raise money. Carry a campaign and attract a wide audience. Someone who had make ron brown. Look like a superstar. That man was arkansas governor. Bill clinton coming up. Brown's career in the white house leads to his devastating demise. This episode is brought to you by tarmacs at carfax. The best way to buy a car is your way whether you're an online shopper. Or an in person. Kind of person carmax. Has you covered. Choose from over. Fifty thousand carmax certified vehicles at carmax dot com check out three sixty degree used research and compare with ratings and reviews schedule a trade and appraisal and apply for financing all from the comfort of home. And when you found the right car for you you can buy online or in store with curbside pickup an home delivery in select markets. Carmax the way it should be get all the details and start the search for your next car today. At carfax dot com. If you're tuning in chances are you've got quite the imagination for the dark dangerous and deceitful. Cool for podcasts. But not so cool for your safety for peace of mind consider. Adt as the leader in home security adt provides twenty four seven rapid response monitoring from their nine owned and operated call centers. And they always put your safety and security i. that's why they're also taking all the necessary precautions to help protect everyone's health including contactless installation and use an extra protective sanitation procedures with low flexible monthly payments to fit your budget. Adt can help keep you and your home safe. Learn more at adt dot com now back to the story after becoming the first black chair of the democratic national committee in nineteen eighty nine. Ron brown felt consumed with purpose. His number one goal was getting a democrat elected as president after vetting multiple candidates for the role. The forty-five-year-old governor of arkansas seem like the best fit bill. Clinton had indisputable leadership qualities. He knew how to handle the press on difficult topics and was beloved by many in the dnc including the man who mattered most ron brown in october nineteen ninety. One clinton stepped up to the challenge in the months following. He gained a strong lead over the other democrats in the primaries brown. Encourage the other candidates to drop out of the race and throw their weight. Behind clinton he felt the focus should be on beating president. George bush senior not members of their own party but governor clinton was a ticking time bomb at the height of his campaign. News broke about his alleged affair with singer and actress jennifer flowers. The starlet came forward claiming she met clinton while reporting k. a. r. k. Tv in one thousand nine hundred seventy seven. The two had a twelve year relationship which clinton denied many democrats insisted. Brown ditch clinton. He still had time to search for a new candidate amongst those voices was the matriarch of the party pam aharon heroine was a major democratic fundraiser. And a confidante of brown's she didn't believe clinton could survive the scandal. Even if you did he tarnished. The party's reputation brown ignored her concerns in remain loyal to clinton this proved to be a risky but shrewd move. Despite the scandal clinton swept the primaries now the nominee had to beat the incumbent president george h w bush in nineteen ninety two. The united states was struggling to recover from a terrible recession. The wealthy bush seemed out of touch with the american people. He spent more time on foreign policy than reinvigorating. The economy brown saw this as an opportunity to push clinton ahead. The governor's campaign drill the need for economic growth. Something clinton had accomplished in arkansas. This along with his charisma and confidence won over. The hearts of america bush was not reelected for a second term. The election went to bill. Clinton this election is a clarion call for our country to face the challenges of the end of the cold war and the beginning of the next century to restore growth to our country and opportunity to our people to empower our own people so that they can take more responsibility for their own lives to face problems too long ignored from aids to the environment to the conversion of our economy from defense to domestic economic giant and perhaps most important of all to bring people together as never before so that our diversity can be a source of strength and a world that has ever smaller where everyone counts. And everyone is part of america's family. Now that brown had an all access pass to the white house. He fantasized about which role he'd play next secretary of state chief of staff. Us ambassador to the united nations. The possibilities were endless. Deep down brown really wanted to be the first black president of the united states one day and he position that could give him that leverage would be ideal but it was all up to clinton in the weeks leading up to his inauguration. Brown met with the president-elect at the hay adams hotel in dc it was the day brown had been waiting for the offer that would change his career forever except brown. Didn't anticipate the words that followed clinton wanted him to be. Us secretary of commerce and he needed brown to accept or decline. The role by morning brown wasn't displeased. He just wasn't sure how he felt about the role so quickly phoned his friend. Jim dessler at dnc headquarters in told him about the offer to which relied quote. I'm really embarrassed about asking you this but what does a commerce secretary do. Brown wasn't entirely sure himself but he was going to find out after accepting the position. Brown learned that the secretary of commerce role was a perfect fit. He'd helped grow the us economy by expanding into new international markets skill. he'd acquired through his trade missions with patton boggs and blow as with any cabinet position brown needed to be officially approved by the senate. I he had to familiarize himself with many departments. He'd oversee from the us weather service to the patent and trademark office to the office of travel and tourism. It was a massive undertaking. But brown's confidence never wavered however there was one setback brown's former representation of the fascist duvalier regime on the senate floor brown executed his defense flawlessly. It wasn't the first time he had a safeguard morally questionable decision. And it wouldn't be the last brown highlighted. All of the benefits that had come from his representation of haiti explained to the senate committee how he'd helped to install the peace corps in haiti and convinced me to reexamine his policies on human rights. Brown was approved but controversy would follow him for the rest of his career. One of his most important jobs as commerce secretary was to help. American companies expand their businesses. Overseas brown was constantly organizing trade missions and traveling world. Meanwhile the country's top. Ceos were dying to get a seat on those planes brown created new opportunities in unprecedented nations like malaysia. senegal and chile. He brought in forty billion dollars worth of new business throughout his career. Despite the revenue brown continually found himself in hot water. for starters. He didn't agree with clinton on certain decisions. Like the one happening with arms core. This was a state owned south. African business that allegedly shipped weapons to iran. Large violation of the south african arms accord essentially brown thought it was in the united states. Best interest to not intervene but clinton insisted on getting involved. The president also told brown to stay away from business in columbia but the secretary pushed back reminiscent of his relationship with haiti. Brown insisted that international trade would help the people of colombia citizens who were largely oppressed by the illegal drug industry and as usual brown got his way outside of the oval office brown face serious threats to his reputation. Conservative publication accused him of accepting a bribe from the vietnamese government. Allegedly this payment was meant to convince the clinton administration to lift their trade embargo on top of that attorney. General janet reno had her eye on brown after brown misfiled. The financial disclosure report renew believed. He was concealing payments from a former associate named nolanda hill. She believed this was another exchange for his influence. On capitol hill. Brown was complicating the clinton administration in more ways than one with his reputation. Floundering many advised clinton to replace the secretary of commerce. Whether or not the president plan to take that advice is uncertain in april nineteen ninety-six embarked on a trade mission to croatia. The nation was rebuilding after a brutal civil war and brown saw this as an opportunity for us. Companies like boeing an aerospace company and enron an energy corporation to get in on the ground floor and braun had other business to attend to in croatia. His itinerary included a meeting with president fron. Yo twos mon- he'd also be leading the negotiations between international businessman. The meeting with president bush mon was set to take place in the capital city of grab but at the last minute. The croatian government suggested braun fly to the city of dubrovnik to meet with him instead on the morning of april third. Nineteen ninety-six the us ambassador to croatia. Morris read was scheduled to fly with brown and his team but brown asked him to stay back. Zog grab he needed him to handle conflict with enron read. Promised he'd get the job done and joined brown in dubrovnik later that day. That never happened at around six. Am brown took a forty minute. Flight to tuesday bosnia. It was a quick stopover where he said hello to the troops at a nearby. Us army base brown dropped off a few hundred mcdonald's hamburgers to thank them for their service. Then he got back on the plane to head to dubrovnik a little before two. Pm brown boarded the military passenger jets. The same plane that had transported first lady. Hillary clinton on her european travels a month before despite the wind and rain in croatia. The pilots made contact with dubrovnik's ground control around two fifty four. pm they displayed no signs of distress or indication that anything had malfunctioned on the plane. And yet it was the last time anyone heard from the crew minutes later. The jet disappeared from radar by three pm. Morris read had beaten ron brown to the tarmac first indication that something was off read new firsthand. The croatia was a war-torn country operating without data technologies and systems. He suspected that it was only a delay. But it wasn't ron brown's plane collided with saint john's hill That afternoon almo brown got a call from clinton. He said that her husband's plane had gone missing in croatia. American search crews scoured. The nearby adriatic sea for evidence. Almost i thought was that the plane had been shot down. Clinton told her there was no indication of that body. She may have been onto something later that day. A croatian villager reported an explosion near saint john's hill. The rescue teams narrowed down their search all through the night. They combed the location and uncovered. The wreckage of the jet ambassador. Read was among the search and rescue teams trying to locate survivors with the discovery of each dead body. He lost more and more hope than amid the ash in the rubble read spotted a familiar face. It was secretary of commerce ron brown. Neither he nor the other thirty four passengers had survived. Despite the impact. Brown's body remained intact. Aside from chemical burns and lacerations on his face and torso. Browns injuries reportedly didn't appear to be lethal. What may have killed him was the alleged forty-five caterpillar bullet hole through his head. Next time will explore a few theories surrounding browns passed the plane crash and his enemies conspiracy theory number. One ron brown was wildly. Corrupt taking on seductive mistresses and accepting life altering bribes conspiracy theory number. Two brown's plane crash was not accidental. And may have been instigated by foreign powers in finally conspiracy theory number three. The clintons ordered the hit on the commerce secretary themselves was ron brown's death caused by outdated equipment bad weather and faulty aerial maps or was there something more nefarious happening behind the scenes. Perhaps brown was nothing. More than a scapegoat. A political fall guy who took washington's darkest secrets down in that plane with him. Oh thanks for tuning in to conspiracy. Theories will be back next time with part two on ron brown out of the many sources we used. We found the life and times of ron brown by tracy brown helpful to our research. You can find all episodes of conspiracy theories and all other spotify originals from podcast for free on spotify until then remember. The truth isn't always the best story and the official story isn't always the truth. Conspiracy theories is a spotify original from cast. It is executive produced by max cutler. Sound design by. Dick schroeder with production assistance by ron shapiro carly madden and travis clark. This episode of conspiracy theories was written by lori gottlieb with writing assistance by knicks ward alley. Wicker fact checking by anya barely in research by bradley klein. Conspiracy theories stars molly brandenburg and carter roy. Hi listeners vanessa. Before you go don't forget to check out the spotify original from podcast serial killers each week. Join me and my co host greg. For a deep dive into the minds and madness of history's most notorious murderers you can binge hundreds of episodes four years worth and catch new episodes every monday and thursday. Listen to serial killers free on spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

brown ron brown carmax haiti us urban league Brown kennedy democratic national committee clinton middlebury Adt cvs croatia nixon dnc senator ted kennedy ashleigh davis middlebury college carter roy
Jim Condos on Brining More Healthcare Workers to Vermont

The Dave Gram Show on WDEV

1:44:27 hr | 1 year ago

Jim Condos on Brining More Healthcare Workers to Vermont

"From Radio Vermont. It's the Dave Graham. Show on. Wd Ev. It's your show about the people places and the issues that matter the most to you. Now here's your host Dave Graham. Good morning from opt We are Let's see this Wednesday April first April Fools Day. I don't think we're going to do much with full today because it's just not a very foolish time out there so last year we tried to do a little pun special. I think on the Dave Ramsey show. I don't think we're GONNA repeat that effort this year because I don't think it'd be. He's in the mood. That seems to be at least. I'm not in the mood. I don't know maybe listeners would like some humor but Remedy jokes ready for you. So sorry about that anyway We do have a good show lined up for you this morning. We are going to be talking with the Secretary of State Jim condos about some newly relaxed regulations relating to inviting health professionals amend mental health professionals in the folks who have licenses out of state and they WANNA move into Vermont and practice their their professions. Normally have to go through a little more than they are going to be Having having to do in the near future this new temporary law. We'll be learning about a few minutes from Secretary of State Jim condos in the second half hour. We've got Matt Dickinson coming on. He's a political science professor at at Middlebury College and has become not a real frequent casper and occasional guest in recent months. Dave Graham show a very smart guy and he is going to be talking to us about President trump who has gotten a lot of fairly tough reviews negative reviews really on his handling of the corona vices corona virus crisis and yet his is popularity year approval rating or. Whatever doesn't seem to have been hurt much by this and so we're gonNA find out from political science person why that is and what it means. And what the would've could mean especially for president trump's reelection prospects Come fall in the in the latter hour of the program speaking with Dan Jones who is executive director of these sustainable Montpellier coalition and Ashley Hill. Whose of of C- Former city councillor. In Montpellier they both have interesting takes. I was looking at some of their posts on facebook in recent days. And then we're sharing some interesting thoughts about this corona virus crisis and what it might mean in the long term and maybe just sort of how people ought to be thinking about it And getting them to reflect on some of that In the second hour of the program as always we welcome listener calls. Here grab show. Wd Visa Studios Still Open. Phone calls not so much for walk in traffic but phone calls. Yes the numbers are two four four one seven seven seven and the toll free number one eight seven seven to nine one eight two five five or two nine hundred talk. Let's bring in our first guest secretary's Day Jim condos Is joining us this morning to talk about Some changes at the office of professional regulation morning. Does that Mister Secretary. Good Morning David had. It's certainly strange in trying times wherein Do I detect a little bit of nasalness coming from you this morning? I always have I go straight from my wintertime. Coal into my springtime allergies. Okay and and that's that happens every year. I don't think it has anything to do with corona virus. But I just the normal all right. I'm away a life for me etc. I'm okay thank you my office and not not yours and that's right. In fact I once again in broadcasting live from my home here in my earlier and we are doing all social distancing we can have it a- radio is actually a medium which is fairly conducive to that. You know it's all it's done from a distance so there you go anyway Secretary Jim condos. You issued a statement. Yesterday about a new law was passed by the legislature passed last week by the House and the Senate and the governor signed it on Monday late afternoon and we were pleased to have his support as well Essentially this is to Ensure that we have access to perhaps thousands of skilled professionals and in many of the crucial healthcare fields that we can get them up and running quickly here in Vermont I know you used the word relaxed that I I guess I wouldn't use the word. Relax I would say that we were Basically streamlining the process to get them into the workforce as quickly as possible and this applies to what professors in particular so. There's a long list if you just pulled on one second. I have that list in front of me here. you got a minute that's accu acupuncturist alcohol drug counselors radio all radio logic technologist Allied Mental Health Applied Behavior and analysis respiratory care practitioners athletic direct Trainers audiologist Social Workers Chiropractic Dental Examiners speech language Pathologists Dietitians hearing hearing a Dispenser Veterinary Medicine Midwives Naturopathic Physicians Psychological Examiners Nursing Nursing Home administrators psychoanalyst occupational therapy opticians. Physical Therapist optometry osteopathic positions and pharmacy Individuals and the entities are MD's included in and bridges nurses and registered nurses. Yes the nursing. Trade is called does fall under us. the MD's are under the office of Medical Practice Board over in the Department of Health. That's the yield of of healthcare that we do not license at the Office of professional regulation. Better known I seek the are. Okay do you. Do you know if there any changes coming out of the coming out of the medical practice board. I do not. But that doesn't mean that there are okay for Asli. Basically the big the big professions out that long list. I just read our nursing pharmacy and mental health. Yeah I would. I would think All those professions of course under high demand I mean I. I saw the The line in the press with these about people possibly coming into Vermont from out of state and and I just I. It occurred to me that That might happen in certain for whatever personal reasons people are family here or something like that but I would imagine that that if I'm you know the state of Pennsylvania in an I would I would not be wanting my my health professionals to be moving to any other state right now. I think these are folks as they say in very high demand so I'm sure every state in the country is urging its health practitioners to stick stick around and maybe pick up a few extra hours or whatever because is the yeah go ahead and David. I think what's important to note? Is that that this is also to help promote Telehealth so these folks do not necessarily have to move to Vermont to Begin helping us in this time of need it it. Is You know keep in mind our mission at the office. Professional regulation is to protect the public health and safety. And and that's what we're trying to do. So we're we're hopeful that we will Have Folks Who are either licensed in other states? That WANNA give us a hand or retirees here in Vermont In the last three years Can come back to work As well as actually like for instance new nursing graduates who would be Waiting to take their boards sometime this summer we can get them to work right away helping out Because they've got their clinicals already done so it's it's really a concern that we can move forward and make sure that if we are system does get overloaded that we are able to react as quickly as possible And I do want to add one thing. I mentioned about doctors and medical practice boards. They are doing the same thing. Excuse me they are doing the same thing as we are and the doctors and medical practice sports That that is interesting. I I'm just wondering I know that in normal times of profession like my wife for instance is a registered nurse. And I know that nurses are expected to work a certain amount of hours per year in order to keep their licenses active in this kind of thing If someone is retired and has been you of Not Working in But wasn't nurse. Say until five years ago or something like that. is is that Is that requirement being waived or temporarily put on hold Are they welcomed back right now? It it's essentially I mean yes it is but I think it's also clear to understand that You know we want. We want to help the state Have as many in the workforce that are capable and have the training To deal for Wi with this emergency that we're in right now You know it's it's it's an interesting question. I think in the long term about our healthcare system. All of the talk that we've heard really since act. Forty eight of two thousand eleven. You know the famous governor shoveling single payer plan and all of that A lot of a lot of the talk has been about Bending the upward cost curve for healthcare obviously people are very concerned about the increasing bite. It takes out of the teachers. Health Insurance takes out of school budgets. the Everybody's health insurance premiums takes out of the economy and so on and it's been it's been a prime worry here. I would think that now as folks look into the future was talking a little bit with Tracy. Dolan the deputy health commissioner. She was on the program yesterday and we were talking about the future of the healthcare system. And she she used an interesting word she said it was going to have to be ready to flex. Basically I think that means Suddenly scale up in the face of a pandemic like this because unfortunately I a lot of experts are saying this will not be the last pandemic we see maybe even within our lifetimes. I'm just wondering how do how would that play out for in professional regulation environment. Is this something that's going to be. You're going to be too well practiced at ten years. Well I would. I would hope that that we learned from this this Challenge that we're facing right now. going forward and and there will be many lessons learned and we will have to review what we've done But I think what we're trying to do right now is is Again protect the health and safety of our citizens here in Vermont and and providing as much of the quality. Care that they deserve. And that's what we've been doing with these Streamlined approaches to getting people. Back into the workforce that can that can actually help us You know I have one of my sisters in. Laws is a retired nurse and She was a surgical nurse and and you know her skills are important at this point in time and and we are. We're doing everything we can. I mean we. Our offices been focused on on the Streamlining of our regulations trying to get rid of those pieces of it that that are not necessary to protect the health And and just concentrate on exactly what our mission is. And that is protecting the health and safety so we are trying to build a workforce that is both nimble that enables modern science That includes telehealth So that we can go forward with with Across state lines at that point. So I think we're we're really trying to do is just be able to move as quickly. Inflexible be as flexible as possible to protect our citizens here in Vermont. Yeah I think that's that is going to be. I think it rated in many many ways. Perhaps there is a silver lining. Or whatever in the sense that people are. GonNa learn things from this This this chapter of our history here and one hopes there are improvements in certain parts of our our Our social life or whatever in the in the way we do business in in the healthcare and probably in some other fields as well. I'm sort of curious in fact I'm GonNa try to organize a show sometime over the next week or a segment of the show talking to people about you know whether working from home is might be a long-term option for a significantly higher number higher number of people that have already been doing it and And maybe you know. We ended up with a goal of helping to reduce our carbon footprint by fewer cars on the road going back and forth offices and the one in the mornings and evenings are our morning. Commute is certainly in Vermont Not as not as intense as it is on. I ninety three north of Boston or something. But it's it's still a pretty busy time when I roads and less so lately Could that lasts for some folks. People actually adapt to working from home with an eye toward Basically skewing if you're hydrocarbons into the atmosphere on a daily basis. We're going to be talking about that. I think becoming shows I. I think David one of the. I don't WanNa say concerns but one of the things we have to factor into this. That makes it very difficult at this time For Instance Pretty Much. All of my staff is working from home. They're all teleworking at this point But they also have because schools are out in. Daycares are closed and You know maybe their partners are their spouses or their partners are essential workers or whatever all impacts how they are their ability to work from home and I know that for instance in our staff Prior to the last three weeks we actually about six or seven weeks ago. We started looking at Basically taking an inventory of all of our staff And what their capabilities were from home. did they have Internet service to have a PC at home A phone line. Whatever and and trying to determine what the needs we're going to be as we were starting to go down this path. We literally started probably six to seven weeks ago looking at this. We ordered extra laptops in so that we would be able to send people home with with the proper tools that they would need In order to serve Vermont offers We've been able to transition quickly But it does take a toll on families Y You know when you've got the kids running around the house and and You know spouses trying to work from home and and It does create some interesting scenarios and and we have to basically adjust and be flexible with what we're doing. I mean it's you know the the idea that someone will Perhaps worked seven forty five to four thirty. Which are the state hours it might be? They started at six thirty. And and You know maybe work till eight o'clock at night but take breaks in between during the day as the day goes on because they might have to assist with Childcare or or other things around the house So you know there's a lot of systems that you know we've we've been adjusting. Since I took office in two thousand eleven. We have looked at how we can improve not only our capabilities board our customers or our Vermont Irs. Who NEED ACCESS TO US? In for instance now almost all of our stuff. is available to people twenty. Four seven You know online and you know all all the office of professional regulation Licensing Can Be done online With you know most of our election stuff can be done online camping. Finance and and lobbyist disclosure Corporations we have our corporate registrations our UCSE filings. those you know trade name. Filings. Those can all be done online now. So we've been really focused on how we can improve the quality of service that we provide to Vermont but also how we can improve the accuracy and efficiency and productivity of our workforce and. I think that's all paying off right now for us because we are able to continue to be nimble and flexible and and make sure that we're serving from honors the way we should we Have a listener. I believe it was calling in bill from berries on the line. Good Morning Bill Goodman Gentleman Online. I'm glad you guys on the thing about mental health. These people they can do what you say. Some places like Oregon and California and be just as effective on the phone and what I wanted to say. Okay I'm a senior And I do get out at times but I try to stay away from people. And this is the social social distancing People have lost. A lot of friends already Dozens of them and They become long before this happened. Now they have to have social distancing which makes it even worse and the some people who have never had had mental health. Four incredible need in my opinion. Oh somebody not I computer and I sent pictures and get pictures from family and something like that. But there's nothing that can play telephone conversations with family friends or just somebody who knows what they're talking about the human unburden province town. This the value of these mental health. professionals cannot be over over exaggerated and So what I like to talk about that and say can't people. Can't we get people we can and I sort of from my personal experience? I have family that lives in Gorgan Head in Florida and I can talk to them but Computer will not replace the telephone. Just like your comments on this kind of semi thoughts. Bill you're absolutely right And and you know the computer can't replace The telephone can't replace actually talking to someone And but the computer does do a lot for us to make us more efficient more productive more accurate And and to allow access to folks For most of the mundane stuff that they have to deal with This is an extreme situation. And we're really focused on how we can provide the flexibility so that folks from outside of the state can help us in our time of need. And you know you're right. It's not just our time. Every state in the country is having the time of need right now and we're all facing the same thing but we have many people around who have that ability to be able to jump on the phone or jump on zoom or skype and and help us out It's it's really important that we are able to Continue to serve. Vermont Irs As best we can to provide the the safety and and and of their health and Going forward. It's just you know this is a really again. This is an extreme situation. As I said we're going to learn from this we will learn and be much better at what we're doing. You know one of the very simple little thing that happened yesterday. I I saw a governor Cuomo from New York talked about how the states are competing against each other. It's like Ebay for forgetting Equipment that they need The bidding against each other and the vendors are are trying to get The best price they can and perhaps the Federal Government. That's the role of the Federal. Government is to help us with that. I mean obviously the federal government isn't going to make ventilators or make masks but the federal government can help us secure and and Have those Systems in place that we need in order to access that equipment you know again telehealth for us telehealth is going to be a major way to not only fight isolation but to assist people in in resolving some their needs is going to resolve all of it. No but we can help some people and that's the important thing and I think that you know we're we're working hard to get to this point As I said you know we've been doing this for the now for ten years Updating all of our systems and and getting our staff into professional situation where they can deal with The scenarios that pop up in front of us and this is just an extreme case right now. It's it's nothing's perfect but it's it's it's just a good way for us to go We think the telehealth is going to be key In in helping folks Provide at least someone that they can talk to. I mean I can tell you I had a a I had a physical scheduled for six months on Monday and You know last week. I got a call from my doctor's office We're not going to be able to see you until Perhaps some time this summer so You know they're just swamped and and our medical professionals are doing the best they can. You know our nursing staff we. That's our biggest licensing group that we have had and I'm I'm often saying that Our nurses are really the backbone of our Healthcare System. The they are the ones that are doing a lot of the work. Are The doctors important? Absolutely doctors are important but the nurses are the ones who are facing people each and every day and they're the ones that are really on the front line. They're the ones that are really working hard I seen interviews on on TV. Where some of these nurses haven't been home for days Where and when they do go home you know. The kids are in the other room They can't go in the same room until they've kind of You know Disinfected themselves taking hot showers and and and and Clinton cleaned up. I it's just you know we're in a different world right now and and This is something that's going to affect all of us for a long time. That is That is very very true secretary of state. Jim condos really appreciate you joining me this morning. We're out of time. But I had a a number of good insights and I appreciate you sharing them with us. Our listeners on wd ev. So thank you so much. You're welcome and please stay safe and stay healthy. Youtube already. Just wanted to take this last minute or so before the break in mentioned Vermont Broadcasting Legend passed away last night at the age was announced last night. Anyway at the age of ninety five Tony Adams was a longtime fixture. People remember him very well as the sportscaster on. Channel Three. Wc A ex He would come on every evening and Really had a really great kind of funkier way about him he could he could deliver. A sports story loved his feature Stories About High School and college. Sports right here in. Vermont occasionally occasionally. It's Big Time. Figures coming on his radar screen at a chance. I'm seeing here to Interview Jackie Robinson. At one point that I never saw that interview. But I'm sure it was a very exciting moment for him and for W. C. A. X. and Tony Tony Adams was really sort of a one of a kind fixture in Vermont for decades. He actually started with. Wpa spoiler is still a radio station back in the late forties. Early fifties or something like that and then transitioned over to TV. When W did that in nineteen twenty four. I'm sorry nineteen fifty four in nineteen fifty four W C. X was the first television station to go on the air and they are They they should. They should be proud of that long. Legacy of terrific sports reporting The Tony Adams brought his famous His famous nightly Slogan Horse at the end of brock broadcast. He would say good night good sports. Tony Adams you were a good sport. Good nights are good night. Good Sports. We'll be back with more of the Dave Ramsey. Show following the bottom of the hour break. There's comfort in the familiar but when light presents us with something exciting we just have to embrace it with so many of our neighbors producing such wonderful products. We just have to show and tell the world come in and see for yourself. The old standbys alongside the new changes. Good the one thing that never changes is our commitment to making your visit a great experience the Warren store where funky friendly and almost world famous. It's the Dave Ramsey show a wd ev. We're back in. My next guest is Matt Dickinson. He's a political science professor at Middlebury College and the Very thoughtful guy on all things. Political election relate related and wanted to talk with Matt this morning about President trump has performance in handling the Rovira Corona virus crisis as well as The fact that his approval rating doesn't seem to have been hurt by all of the media coverage of What would a lot of folks seeing his lesson? Adept handling of the coronavirus crisis for much of it. So far by our president Magic it's thanks so much for joining me this morning. Glad to join your day and tell us a little bit about how you read this situation. I mean first off do. Do you know what the numbers are. I I was looking around and I couldn't find the latest Polling on this. But my my roth understanding is that is that His approval rating has remained pretty steady throughout. It's actually gone up. slightly Some you know political scientists. We always cautioned. Never rely on a single Polling but sort of us one of those polling aggregate there's I tend to use a real clear politics. And right now he is at about forty eight percent approval. A hair below about fifty percent disapproval. So that's great except when you compare it to a week ago where he was down about forty three Fifty two something like that. So He's actually picking up about five to six points over the last week week and a half So it's actually despite the criticism much of a justified. I think in his handling of this crisis if public approval rating say anything much of public actually just proves if the jobs doing. Yeah it's It's interesting and Meanwhile I saw a A headline a couple of days ago wherein the president was described as denying having said a couple of two things I think it was that he had clearly said over the last week You know when he says I didn't say that In response to a reporter Questioning him about Well Mr President you said the other day that X Y and Z and he society and say that anyone could we roll the tape and clearly show. These reporters are not lying It just seems SORTA scratch your head and you look at that and go. What is he doing? And why why? Why do you think he is is so belligerent? About this stuff. Well I think part of the issue for him has always been You know he adjust to things on the fly. He's not a strategic long-term thinker and I think is View of the seriousness of this crisis has evolved and and frankly and his defense along with many of us although his experts apparently were warning him for a long time they spend what was happening. The rest of the world at this is going to be a serious problem so I think he just thinks when whatever the new reality is that's what he's always believed. It was even though as you say. The documentary evidence contradicts that. He's also you know used this as politically as potentially in quite correctly damaging to his reelection anything. You can do to sort of put the best face on this. I think he's trying to do that. I would. I would caution when we look at his approval. Ratings which have gone up This says less about I think the public specifically responding to his statements and much more to seeing him every afternoon at five o'clock on the podium Taking concrete actions To sort of stem this virus and Being flanked by more neutral experts who are also by being on stage with him seemed to be allied with him as well. And I think that's what's driving the short-term rally The other thing is we've studied these rallies before the so-called rally around the flag effect is not uncommon and it happens in times when the nation is under crisis. I mean you can go back to nineteen sixty one kennedy trying to overthrow Cuba's Castro the disastrous invasion and yet when he goes on television takes credit approval ratings. Go Up Bush after nine eleven. Worst peacetime disaster. Us history is ratings skyrocketed. So there's this element here that the country is simply rallying around the man who is the symbol of national sovereignty really. It's less an affirmation of specific statements and much more Affirmation that we're in this together. Yeah and I mean I I I sense. That must be the case then in. I'm trying to sort of unravel this a little bit and see wetter. There's a sense of How much of it. Maybe it's impossible to measure but how much of it is the sort of rally round the flag in time of trouble phenomenon. And how much of it is. Actually you know people thinking that separately from that This individual president is doing a good job. in in his in the way he's handling these daily briefings in the way he's making his decisions and so on. I mean Does he is and maybe I mean. Here's a theory for you. You tell me if this makes any sense but he seems almost a heavy a strategy where Where if you basically cut yourself off from the past even even the past including remarks you've made in the previous four or five days By saying you know I didn't say that even though you can ro- roller tape and see that he did say that I mean it. It seems that there's almost a strategy there that is designed to erase any context and and really erased. Any accountability is that is that fair or is that That is fair. I I hesitate sometimes to give him more credit In terms of thinking strategically he's much more of an instinctive person who I think lives in the moment He's also a counterpuncher so when critics Lash out at him. These press conferences are just amazing spectacles for this counter punches in ways that seem oblivious You know the strength of their criticisms of their reliability validity. I guess is the word I'm looking for but I would also caution to you know for those of us who are strong partisans And and have strong feelings for or against him. A good chunk of disapproval Is coming sort of with people who are paying less attention to politics views or sort of middle of the road who generally do not stay up watching Cable News Reading the OP ED PAGES. And what they're getting is a glimpse of their president on stage seemingly taking actions that They can actually see the visible manifestation in their day-to-day lives and that can't help but work to his benefit in the short term. I would also caution that when we think about these rally events historically they don't last forever. If the crisis persists than is usually the chickens come home to roost in terms of the approval ratings begin to drop down again so we are in a very uncertain time. Not just in terms of the pandemic but politically as well. It's really hard to to try to draw on the past make a useful comparison here because may ways unique yet that is for sure my guess is Matthew Dickinson. He's a professor of political science at Middlebury College in listeners. If you have any comments or questions for for Professor Dickinson or the your host. Dave Graham mourie welcome to call us two four four one seven seven seven is the local number in Waterbury. The toll free number is one eight seven seven to nine one eight two two nine one eight two five five and wanted to also mentioned a programming note We have been Fr- De careful about trying to carry most of the if not all of the recent press conferences put on by Governor Phil Scott. Live on. Wd Ev. Today eleven o'clock. We are going to be doing that again. The governor is going to be addressing. The media at that hour of we may hear from From the governor year announced a new new volunteerism initiative. Yesterday we may hear some more discussion of that and we also heard in the last couple of days that the administration the governor's administration may be preparing some estimates for kind of going forward You know when we think this This pandemic will peak in Vermont and And what the what? The odds are that our healthcare system will be able to kind of rise up really really grow in size frankly to to try to meet all the demands which are gonNA be placed on it in the coming weeks and so we'll perhaps get some information about that as well again. Wbz carrying live. The governor's news conference scheduled for eleven. Am this morning. So stay tuned. After the Dave Graham show for that matter Dickinson I wanted to Just get you all set of to just reflect for a little bit here on Where where the Democratic candidates Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders have been On pandemic do you think they've been doing enough? Do you think they should be out there doing more? What about their their How they're they've been Hanley so far. Well they've been sidelined and understandably so they're reluctant to Return to sort of daily campaigning. In the sort of attacking each other. That's characteristic of a normal political campaign at this time and I think that's perfectly appropriate after sort of step back But behind the scenes. I think there's frustration from the Biden. People on you and you get a glimpse of this media reports from donors and backers about sanders unwillingness or To recognize what they think is a done deal here. Mathematically that he cannot get the nomination is no good reason to stay in. So I think there's a lot of frustration there I mean Biden has tried and I don't think it's effectively a sanders to sort of hold these virtual online meetings and sort of talk about the corona virus. And do it in a way that they sort of try to make also the case for their presidential candidacy or in Sanders case for his progressive policy. So for instance is in Corona virus evidence about how important it is to have medicare for all Nationalized Health System. So they are campaigning. But it's a much different campaign. The campaign done online campaign in the context of a global pandemic So there's not this outright carping at each other that you would normally see But you know for both of them. They've been sidelined and they watch donald trump's approval ratings going up and they cannot directly attack him although Biden has begun to do a little bit of that in his handling of the corona virus. But there's a risk there and so I think it's a wait and see mode to see you know whether this popularity surge levels off and then I I expect some time midsummer As we head into these these conventions that the gloves will come back off again And they'll be at least some return to a normal presidential campaign but of course you know the other thing here is all. These states are pushing their primaries back So everything is really an estate flock. I saw story just this morning. Indicating that The Democratic National Committee Starting to really question whether he can hold a convention this summer yet I don't know what are the one of the Republicans say about that. You know I have not seen any update. I mean for them obviously. It's a little less of a logistical problem. Because trump is the presumptive nominee But you know you can imagine the mini chaos. Neither Sanders near Biden has clinched the nomination and the expectation is going into the convention to be some debate. And you can't hold the convention. I mean this is again uncharted territory. Yeah that that is. That is very true. I'm I I would think. Though that that at some point you know they would to come up with a mechanism to say You know we're GONNA call the game as of such and such a date and have a nominee and at that point. Maybe just you know who has the most delegates by that date? I don't exactly how how else they would do it but we need it. You think almost like analogize do a basketball game. You'll is going to be over in forty eight minutes and when it is. Whoever has the most points wins right? Yeah well I mean the irony here. Of course is when Bernie was ahead and there was talk about Neither candidate Achieving the majority of delegates into the convention should go to the super delegates. You should just nominate the guy. Who's ahead and Bernie said well. We should nominate the guy who's ahead turns out Biden if we follow that logic and I agree with you. That's probably the most feasible logic but you know what that's going to do once again. It'll be a question of how willing Bernie Senator Sanders and his supporters are to accept that decision and work on behalf of the nominee in the general election. I don't know if you saw this poll recently but about fifteen percent of sanders supporters. Say they were gonNA vote for trump. Now it's talk is cheap. But that's precisely the scenario that Joe Biden does not want to see if he declared the presumptive nominee yet. I'll I I'll tell ya I don't really understand the logic there much at all. I mean if you're if you are a Democrat of if you're somebody who wanted to support Bernie Sanders and Bernie. Sanders is foreclosed As a candidate then You turn around and you support you know you think about the. I'm just for instance. The impact that trump has had so far would continued to having a second term on the Federal Judiciary The Supreme Court and so on I can can you I mean. Is this just all spider? What is it? It's hard to tell how How much that talk in? A poll will translate into action. I think a lot of it is just genuine. Anti-establishment fervor among Bernie supporters That the Democratic Party is really no different than the Republican Party They're both sort of corporate owned and It's Bernier boss. Then explain supporting trump of what it would I would think more feasible option is simply not to vote which also is not necessarily a good thing for Biden. I don't think there's any logic that says I'm a sanders supporter and ideologically. I'm closer to trump and I am to buy it doesn't resonate you know outside a couple of issues like trade. Where maybe you can you? Trump is a little closer to the sanders position and maybe non-intervention overseas although the record in the trump administration may not be as Pristina's he suggested it would be but no ideologically. I don't see the logic there. I think it's more of a rhetorical and emotional Reaction to this idea. That Bernie is GonNa lose the nomination and and I I would advise folks out there too less rhetoric in less emotion in your electoral decisions. Because you know this stuff has real consequences. I mean that's what I remember back in two thousand sixteen I was still working for mainstream. Media Organization wasn't able to express opinions publicly the way a radio talk show host can but I I was telling friends and family who you know some of whom would would play the seriously by Hillary Clinton and not really liking are whatever I say to them. You know. You're you're looking at electing a president perhaps for just the next four years You know what you're really doing is you're picking direction at the Supreme Court for the next forty years and And and that's And it's hard to get people to to focus on that stuff. I mean An intimate you know I. I guess that's just and it's not just the Supreme Court it's it's sort of the two parties the Republican Party and the Democratic Party. You know really our teams with with very very different agendas on things like environmental protection and things like You know reproductive rights and Any number of other issues. You see out there. It's very clear that the Democratic Party and the Republican Party Really WanNa go in different directions and and If you favor one of the two directions over the other seems to me like you've got to kind of picked a candidate who comes closest to reflecting the direction you you prefer. It isn't that I mean I guess that makes too much sense. I agree with that I think there's a danger of cutting off your nose despite your face if you're a Sander supporter who says I'm just not going to back the Democratic nominee I think to your correct on looking at the long term implications of four more years of trump president and is not just trump. It's down ballot. It's the house races. If the Senate races and to invent that we can Discern POTENTIAL IMPACT. Sanders is costly on these down. Ballot races A lot of polling suggests that if he is the nominee Sort of a drag on the ticket at the top Could Hurt Democrats in key races? I mean for all his Talk about pushing. The party's agenda to the left and him taking credit for that when we think about the democratic gains in the house in two thousand eighteen there in what we call purple district suburban districts on issues that were relatively Middle of the road sort of protecting the health benefits. I have And there's a real question about whether Sanders Nomination would do as much to retain that That those seats as a Biden nomination most of our polling suggests biden sort of more palatable in those districts so it's not just the presidency to stay here all of that crucial. I think your point about the courts and the legislature is equally important here. Yeah that is that is for sure. And and Also when you think about the The kind of the federal bureaucracy and you look at the at the overall Aggressiveness in and Let's take the Environmental Protection Agency. Just for one example. The EPA looked a lot different as an agency under President Obama than it does now after three and a half years of a little over three years of president trump and And again I to me. It really matters less about who the individual is whether it was Obama or Clinton the EPA would have looked pretty similar Wet Trump or pen source or Marco. Rubio the EPA would look like a Republican EPA. And you'd probably see This big backing off. We've just seen of the The carbon reduction goals in in tailpipe emissions and so on just for example. And the the you know. The emission controls on power plants that you administration put in place in the trump administration has reversed. Go down this long. Long list of you know labor relations are. GonNa look a lot different under almost any Republican administration than they are under a democratic administration Selected issues that you care about and and figure out which candidate Which nominee it comes closer to none of them is going to be perfect. Everything that's that's clear but which nominee comes closer to a standstill. You think is better for the country and So this idea that people are gonNA suddenly jump from really one end of the political spectrum in the first person to Bernie Sanders to the first of the Donald Trump. I don't know that just strikes strikes me as a as a leap away from logic as you. You know I mean. I think you've pointed arena. We're beating a dead horse here as well. I mean I think the the issues that you raise our. I think that's That's central to this election electoral choice. I mean think about global climate. Change when you talk about Combatting Climate Change. You have to globally well. Every candidate every Democratic candidate has said first thing I'll do. We'll reintegrate globally with the fight against reducing global emissions and signing the Paris peace or rejoining the Paris Peace Accord Donald Trump. Not GonNa do that. Think about healthcare right. Donald TRUMP healthcare plan is not simply to maintain the status quo. It's through to roll back. Roll back obamacare. These are things that matter to people. the choice is distinct and it's clear and Supporting Donald Trump will have different consequences on those issues that affect people. Not just today but for you know decades to come and to ignore that I think you are absolutely right. is to put your head in the sand There's a clear choice in this A choice that's represented by different candidate values in different party values. Yeah it's it's it's interesting media you look at a parliamentary system like Britain's and you say I think my you know my sense of it it is in this way. We even even not as true in Britain some other parliamentary democracies like Germany. And so on. But the the individual who's selected as the Prime Minister or chancellor whatever is is Are really less of a blip on not as big a blip on the radar screen as the president is in the United States in terms of the overall. I Dunno personal impact or whatever. I don't know if I'm making sense here but it but But really what is being selected in a parliamentary system? Much more is as an overall direction for the for the for the country and it's sort of more obvious in that framework whereas in the United States people do play personality game and and forget. Don't they that that we're also selecting overall direction for the country? That's precisely right. I mean again. The big difference is in the so-called parliamentary systems. Your Prime Minister is selected from the ruling party coalition and reflects that coalition in the United States. The you know the presidency is somewhat separate from the legislature doesn't come from legislature personality matters a lot more but that's shouldn't As you quite correctly point out it should minimize the fact that the president is the defacto face of a political party and has all sorts of tools at least in the short term to try to reorient that party Not least by sort of mobilizing public opinion behind his policy issues. And you know. The president has a great borrow. Roosevelt's phrase. It's a bully pulpit in the sense that rhetorically the words words do matter you the other issue in a very quickly. Bring up that you brought up and I think is so important. We tend to underestimate the importance of the bureaucracy and expertise and you talked about the EPA. But think about response to The global pandemic in the United States and it is a reminder how important expertise is CDC in this case Just for sure and or you know if you have. A president does not value that expertise and does not nurture it but instead seems to demean it and Not Bill that has real World Matt Dickinson Political Science Professor at Middlebury College. We're about out of time but I really appreciate you joining me this morning. It's always good talking with you. They say you to. We're going to take a brief break at the top of the hour for some CBS News. A couple of words from our sponsors back. With more of the day. Graham showed a follow thanks Lawson's finest classic clothing and cutting edge fashion. Are you sandwiches and grab and go meals toys? A wide selection of Rosa jewelry accessories quarter pound cookies and even more beer. Yankee magazine doesn't call us the best one. Stop shopping in Vermont for nothing. The warrant store where funky friendly in almost world famous now back to the Dave Graham. Show on W. Dav FM and am. We're backing an admission. Once again it'll programming note which is that Just after the day. Graham show concludes at eleven o'clock. This morning Governor Phil Scott will be holding a news conference Talking to Vermont Media and the public through them to Informed about the latest the latest goings gone from the administration in state government in the face of this corona virus. The governor's been doing regular updates on a Not Quite daily basis but Well yesterday for instance he issue to issued a written statement Today's he's getting in front of the media about eleven o'clock we're going to be carrying that live on. Wd Ev FM and am and so Doughnuts touch dial one a day. Graham show gets done this morning you can always just keep listening and you can hear the latest from the governor of the State of Vermont. Just about eleven o'clock very shortly thereafter so stay tuned. We are We are going to be bringing in Danny Jones and Actually Hill on the program just a few minutes but we got a little time for a couple of listener calls. I think I missed a couple before the top of the hour. So if you're feeling frustrated out there just dial in again and we'll try to get on the air in these next few minutes here one percent think who's been hanging on the line. Today's patients award is Believe it's a rich from Huntington. Good morning new rich from stark's pro two different. Sorry wrong rich. It's an embarrassment of riches or maybe Dave's about getting the wrong rich but anyway Early on in the last half hour segment. You're talking about with professor tickets in about the the trump in the L- Lies that He denies saying and so forth. And and how he's GonNa pull himself out of that wherever we got this postcard. I don't know if you go in president. Trump's corona virus guidelines for America D. S. Sixteen Twenty Twenty March sixteenth. Twenty twenty. So that he can sort of go back data and say I was onto this all along. Can't you see my postcard? And the other thing is I've I've I can't confirm this but I've heard that the the people that don't have direct deposit for those twelve hundred and twenty four hundred dollar checks to have to get him Signed He's told the treasurer. I don't want you to sign him. I want I want to sign him myself. So those are two things that try to put him back in the limelight. And what I noticed in my observations when he's when he has the word beautiful any statement that he makes a good chance he's GonNa later deny that statement probably But he's always saying beautiful anyway. It's all going to be beautiful. It's all going to be beautiful. Yeah but anyway That's about all I get to say about that and I was okay Well I I think I think a couple of a couple of good points here one one of which is this This real tendency that I think a lot of people find kind of bothersome toward self-aggrandizement and we're doing a great job and we're doing a great job. We're doing you just hear this every day From from this president and I think it would be it would be better a way better frankly to have Have the the audience reach that conclusion on their own without any help from the from the person who's actually you know the performer. The sense and I mean it would be his. If you went to some music recital and in Nafta every piece the musician stood up at the piano or whatever it said I'm I'm just play beautifully unbound just re really this wonderful performance and then they sit back down and much of Congress and mistakes and stuff and gets back up. It's a wonderful performance folks. Just so I think that I I think that that. That's that's a That is a really troubling. I mean it's kind of part of the psychological package that people have spent endless time trying to analyze in. I don't know if they've gotten to the bottom of it yet but there you go anyway. Thanks for the call rich really appreciate it. I was I was calling you calling That call right there rich from Huntington and And maybe I was just precious. I don't know but now I believe Rick from Huntington is on the line. Good morning rich other rich. You Call Dave thank. You Hope. You're feeling better thanks. I wonder if I could spend a minute bringing up a little appreciation for some of the unsung heroes. We have obviously we. We Have heard a lot of mentioned about medical professionals. First Responders Pharmacy Workers Grocery workers. Truck Drivers Even the local ups Guy Maybe not so much mentioned our technical professionals who have been very busy setting up the infrastructure for doing home schooling and and allowing people to work from home and And allowing you to work from home you know everything goes seamlessly on your clarity of your your Your Voice and the callers. It's all very seamless. So I just WanNa say you've got some really top notch. People Devi making that happen. Yes we do anyway. Rich thank you thank you they call you make a really a really good point and And I and I do WanNa thank my good friends. Dana and lead. They've been running the board. Dav Our engineer chip has been doing a great job. And of course the you know the whole crew has wd who Who keep the operation running on a daily basis Steve Gore Mirza General Manager and Charlotte's traffic the operations director and Kiowa the whole group Really been doing a bang up job of of adjusting on the fly To to keep this radio station on the air and it's not always easy a lot of long hours especially for you know Steve. Corner's been running around like a chicken with his head cut off in the last couple of weeks trying to keep everything going and You know hats off to the whole crew. I just I'm really really proud to be really proud to be a voice for wd end But There's a lot of folks who are not as on a not as not on the air as much as I am and they. They deserve a lot of credit. So there you go let's go to Conrad and calluses calling in good morning. Conrad morning you guys are doing a great job. All of you spoke to Lee tell a couple of times he you know he's a real gentleman. I could do it the reason why I'm calling is I wondered. If you might be able to get somebody in. They can answer some questions On the topic of unemployment for self-employed people The ones that that qualify this time. That never has been before. And the reason why I'm asking that you might get somebody in is two weeks ago. I called the Vermont State Employment Unemployment Office and was told that the stimulus money that goes to private contractors Unin normally unemployable Eligible for unemployment. That you need to go to the Federal Government Department of Labor website is nothing there that tells you what you have to do. So this morning I googled it and I got some information that said you need to go to the Vermont State. Unemployment office to fill out a form. So I'm getting conflicting stories about it. I talked to a lot of self employed people private contractors sole proprietors that. Know nothing about this nor how to apply for it. So that's a little project I'd like to get some answers on Yeah it's possible to get through to the unemployment office when I did two weeks ago. I was told explicitly. You need to go to the the. Us Department of Labor nothing there. It doesn't even tell you what you have to do to qualify for that. Yeah the I'm looking at the homepage. Google I just Google de Vermont Department of Labor and There is. They're they're quite a number of links to unemployment Fire weekly unemployment claim Let's see here the website this morning in yours. Con Corona Virus Stimulus. How do you get unemployment for freelance? Contractors part-time workers self-employed people typically left out. That's doesn't tell you. I don't know if you're playing anything and if you if you keep scrolling down it tells you now to go to your State Unemployment Office. I'll end employment office and they say no. We have nothing to do that. We're strictly traditional unemployed. People that qualify for unemployment. The we got a call a day or two ago From a listener and. Berry who did say that That people who are GIG GIG economy workers. Don't the people out there who you describe? Conrad is somebody who not normally Enrolled in the unemployment insurance system in Vermont are actually going to be able to get benefits from the system during this period of time And and I think the the key here is Is Sort of working through this website of the of the Department of Labor of Labor Dot Vermont Dot Gov Which can can It has information on it. It's just a matter of taking the time to to dig through that and I I'M GONNA I'm GonNa see if I can actually get Michael Harrington the Commissioner Labor on the program sometimes the next few days to maybe walk us through this and talk to us. Because I know your your question Conrad you've asked a couple times now and and you're not the only one who is who is I've heard this from where people saying you know how. How does this work? What do I go what do I do if I want to sign up for unemployment and I'm I'm a little short on information. Unfortunately right now let telco me that you probably could get somebody in with that expertise. And it sounds commissioner I can't believe I'm the only one that's reaching out for the self employment stimulus money and it's referred to pee you A. Yeah I hear you I I get it and I promise you gotTa work on it in the coming days and see if we can get some answers. I think that's an important question because some you know it's a growing segment of our economy more and more people. These days are not working in traditional jobs that Kerry unemployment insurance as part of the benefit package and so he didn't know anything about it. This is your Jimmy. I said no he said I can't John and I said this agreed. I an awful lot of people. Who are you know who are working in jobs like they? They THEY REPAIR TECHNICIANS. They go from home to home and You know each trip. So that's important and appreciate the call. Conrad thanks for that reminder. Get to work on that. So thank you I gotTa jump but but we'll We'll talk to you. We'll talk to you soon. All right Let's see here We do have our previously scheduled guests lined up and ready to go to talk to us about About the overall picture here and maybe some long term trends and I WANNA welcome to our air. This morning Dan Jones who is Executive Director of the sustainable My fear coalition. I I see stuff on facebook. A lot of very provocative post there about Really thinking about how can what lessons can we learn? Overall as a as a society in her sort of normal modes of operations may be some things are could be could be scrapped in terms of the we live our daily lives In have lived up to the start of the start of the of the current virus crisis. Here maybe we're learning that You know perhaps People don't have to commute five days a week. Maybe they could do some work from home for a couple of days or even a work from home full time and it never occurred to them before that. That's a possibility Other methods of perhaps reducing our carbon footprint And in ways we can think about having a somewhat lighter footprint on the world as we go through. Life Dan Jones. Thank you very much for joining me this morning. Good Morning Good morning and have a guest Ashley. Hill is also someone who I've been getting into a little bit online and has a lot of interesting things to say about About this corona virus crisis in how She might be able to share some perspective from The ankle of looking at the world. You know from She's dealt with a lot of people in her career. Who are who are in crisis even without something like the coronavirus going on because that's just the way Many many people's lives are unfold and She's a an attorney and former president. Bob Peeler City Council And he's done a lot of work as I mentioned in the in trying to keep Keep our our UTHA healthy and happy and believe she is now with the. Let's see loyal. County will let her telescopes US having trouble pulling it up again right now. Ashley Hill Welcome to the program. Thank you so much for joining me. My friend and tell us a little bit about your current role in. I know I know it's a is it the county youth service bureau. Were I feel it's similar Soon my You didn't see. Oil Valley actually falls under the one mile family center now or some end they. I am doing work with them. Working with views on substance misuse and Addiction Prevention strategies with average is. Yeah and and and I saw a post from you the other day actually and I said I wanted to get you on the radio. Talk about this a little bit. Because you're saying in the post if I recall correctly that You know basically this corona virus crisis For All the idiot is causing so on There are an awful lot of people for whom anxiety Is In in crisis is sort of a normal mode of living is. That was just why. Yeah and and what can what can others of US? Kind of learned from the coping skills perhaps if people have developed and and talk me a little bit about that yeah do this is sort of. I. This all happened really quickly And so I think you know a lot of us are still really kind of just trying to re position and reframe sort of where we're at and I've been sort of feeling that way for the last few weeks as as tensions rose you know in the country and you know even here. Vermont. I started hearing people talking about you. Know what if this happens here and all of a sudden we sorta found ourselves in in this position and I will say it wasn't really all of a sudden but it was a very abrupt change. And you know that that shifted everything and you know as someone who grew up in pretty chaotic. I'm predictable environment. My grandparents you know reviews meeting people who really provided offensive like common stability. But you know there were a lot of other factors in my life. That weren't my grandparents and learning how to kind of navigate a an ever evolving situation. That's GonNa Change Seconds second you know. What kind of environment am I coming in few like? What's the what's going to be the thing today that's going to you know explode or You know really having to navigate any kind of that uncertainty and life really changes the way that you interact with your life and your peers and your friends and You know as someone who has lived in. Abusive relationships had really chaotic childhood. I think I'm personally experiencing kind of a lot of those things you know. What's the world's going to look like what you know what? What do I need to do to be safe? You know what kinds of things Do I need to adapt in my behavior or my thoughts or my approach to things to be able to kind of navigate that and I think the hardest part right now is that this is kind of A. There's not a person there's not there's not a direct object that I and you know for me. Prepare myself for or sort of learn how to navigate round It's really kind of the unseen thing and the hard part. Is that like right now for me. My brain is like if people are closer than six feet. They're the enemy which is not sort of not accurate. It's not accurate at all. But it's really hard to sort of find any kind of of footing right now to really grasp on to to to be able to interact with that in a in a way with a degree of certainty. That makes me feel confident. And so it's really bad for me about managing my own expectation. Kind of about you. Know what is what I can consume and not consume in terms of news or information and and really finding ways to like ground myself in my present day. So that I can use those skills that I've cultivated over the years to survive but now use them in a way that's not only for my own benefit inward but also finding ways to like articulate those thoughts and feelings outward because they`ve. I've found that a lot of people. have had similar experiences and are kind of feeling similarly about like the feels like this thing that. I that I worked really hard to let over to move on from and all of a sudden rate in the foreground again. Yeah and and and I mean I I guess. Part of me wonders whether some of that That past You know crisis and and sort of unfolding of what sounds like a pretty continuous crisis through parts of your life Ashley Hill Have strengthened you and basically made you more resilient in the face of this current crisis is a good way to describe it or my missing something there. I it kind of depends minute to minute. Yeah Yeah you know like I guess I would. I would say yes. She wouldn't extend I think what I struggle with about. That is that you know a lot of a lot of the ways that as a community and as a country we talk about surviving. Those really challenging situation is really sort of focused on on those of us. You're the most impacted having to address and change our behaviors to accommodate. You know the toxic behaviors that we are trying to erase from our sort of inner lives and So I would say the answer to. Your question is yes. I do believe that you know. My experiences has allowed me to have a very different perspective but I also WanNa be super candid and acknowledged that you know but for the grace and forgiveness and frankly you know A whole bunch of people putting an effort over the years. I wouldn't be here and I. I think that resilience is is a factor but resilience is not. I don't think something that is is only inherently think. It's something that we can cultivate in each other and I think that's sort of where I feel like a lot of work can be done just about you know like how do I survive this moment? You know as we're watching the news and you know as we're hearing from friends and you know hearing from people who may be testing positive for the virus and sort of you know what am I doing right now to be able to maintain my present focus on and you know the the things in front of me but what am. I also doing to help or not help. I guess but maybe like connect with those that are in crisis that haven't experienced this and has the same things and bear lives. But I have and I think that's me is the is the hardest part because so many of already have been baseline to be able to talk about a thing like this and trying to ways to bridge those gaps and understanding experiences is really really really hard. And I'm curious to know what listeners out there might be thinking in terms of. Have you had experiences in your own life that you feel like might might have might have been a you have contributed to your ability to kind of weather? Psychologically or otherwise The current Current crisis And what is the role which I actually been describing so well of of others helpers in your life people who have have have flint you a hand over time in intensified in terms of reaching out in and helping to strengthen the individual As as a more social project and let me bring in Dan Jones for a moment because Dan I I sort of I mean very very roughly and I know this is probably So rough as to be inaccurate. But I'll say it anyway. I was thinking you know we. We kind of With actually we were just talking about how the past can be a prelude to the present Your post some. I'm looking at facebook and I sorta see. I think Danny Jones is more about the president is for you. To the future and in your. I'm sorry that's it You know where We're here to try and figure out how that's why was sort of a sustainable month earlier. We had a recognition. That stuff was going to be coming down the line in the In the climate that was after he responded to and so right. Now we're all of a sudden in the midst of this crisis that everybody's feeling afraid of but it may be a wonderful opportunity to reset as we reese. We find out that are you know I'm GonNA quote from George Mambi Out The Guardian who said basically Cova Nineteen finger community action on a vast scale. The horror films got it all long instead of turning us into flesh. Eating zombies the pen. Democrats turn millions of people into good neighbors. Power is misguided from private money to states for both markets from certain. What what we're having now is point where people are showing up to volunteer in amazing numbers. They WANNA help you know emphasis. This is a prelude to what we can build coming out with us. We've been given this line about how we're supposed to be competitive with each other. How we're supposed to be constantly consuming and what this our crisis has done. It's all on holes and give us a chance to look at what's coming so when I was in this kind of of rest at home Resting Place thing but it is giving us a moment actually think about what's possible and the next round anyway. I'm sorry I was. I was going on. Go AHEAD NO I. I think I think you're you're you're the point you're making is very important here that we we have an opportunity here to to to take lessons from this current event and apply them and think about how they might be applied in the future. But we need to actually continue with that. I want to dig in on that after we go to brief bottom of the hour break for some CBS News. A couple of words from our sponsors be. We'll be back with more the Dave Ramsey show and my guests Dan Jones Ashley Hill in just a couple of minutes. 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I'm sure there'll be some new information everybody's GonNa WanNa hear and so it is important that the public take these opportunities to stay informed and W DVD's glad to help by broadcasting live. The governor's news conference Starting just after eleven o'clock this morning and The other thing I always liked to mention the Dave Ramsey show is Don't forget about our podcast folks. We a lot of interesting conversations on the show. I find that the free people tell me. They're busy between nine eleven in the morning. Maybe a little less so lately with everybody just sheltering in place but In that when life is going on normally a lot of folks who have worked in doctor's appointments and Dennis Appointments and Cari Fair points and all sorts of stuff of normal life. That happens are between nine eleven. Am when we are on the Air Weekday Mornings here on wd? Our podcast is the answer you can go to the Internet. Wd Ev radio DOT COM anytime day or night. 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We've been having a fascinating conversation about the current crisis in about how our past lives have prepared us in many cases for the current crisis in how we also want to be thinking about what we can learn from the current crisis About our futures here in terms of our individual lives in our social lives are our place in the world and our the way we conduct business in basically our society there may be some changes coming There's been talk for years from especially climate activists about how we need to change some of our behaviors and consuming consuming habits and so on and we were talking with Dan. Jones Leroy rowing in on that stuff just before the break and I wanted to just let Dan continue that thought for a moment Dan. Tell me You were saying that that There are some some specific things that People have in mind here. Well what we're seeing is that Because everybody's feeling threatened than a little depressed What they need is a sense that they are involved but they have control over their lives and that they are capable of helping others. And we've been said this Whole propaganda. About how we're in competition with each other but what we're finding in places like India right now was the thousands. Tens of thousands of young people are working to try and figure out how to help feed each other In my bill you're working on something called rebe building the capital area neighborhoods which is Rather than everything flowing through the city administration at the top or were saying the neighborhoods have to have some agency because people communicate. How do we recognize those people who don't know how to get information you know? There's twenty percent of the population that actually don't have web Don't have smartphones. How do they know what's going on? With their routes. They're not listening to the radio with airless. Radio Look C. A N For Sustainable. I'm familiar but what we're looking for and what we're discovering is all these people want to help. They want to go reach out to the neighbors. Want to figure out what they can do. There's a whole Montpellier mutual aid effort. That started where there's hundreds of volunteers people who want to do whatever they can't help each other and that to me is like I mean credible message for the future. We don't have to keep thinking of ourselves as spent dictums of The situation we can invent a new future. And that's really I want to encourage people start thinking about what comes next. How do you know there was a great graffiti that I saw from China that basically translates it? We can't return to normal because the normal the we have was precisely. The problem is the The challenge that we have right now is. How do we make a new normal one that uses a lot less energy You know the the carbon pollution in the last three weeks worldwide last month worldwide has plummeted onto levels every so what he said was unheard of. Well how do we keep some of this going on in the future? How do we change our habits? How do we change our expectations so that we can build something that takes care of each other? That is secure. That is optimistic because I'm I think we have to really feel that when we come out of this whether it's three months or six months or whatever we're GONNA be able to build something new and that's going to be good for all of us. That's my preaching for the moment. We have a listener recalling it board from East East Corinth is with us. Good Morning Forbes. Morning he just touched upon One of the issues that I thought was important and especially at this particular time so something. Good out of this The negative lights and things but I would love to see and I emphasize certified the Air Quality tests that were taking. Let's say we've had them in the past but also right now the absence of motor vehicles and everything else off off the roads. Out of the what What are those certified not talking points but actually certified figures from before and now interesting question for Dan do you. Did you have any data like that? I've been actually looking for that. All I've seen his anecdotal stuff through these the climate Coalition thing and I will however be looking for that because I am. I've just seen it. Anecdotally likes Sindi satellite maps of China. you know at Christmas time in China At the end of February and just diminishing and the CO two being released same over Italy has been phenomenal. It's like disappeared from me. Atmosphere blue skies all over the country are all of a sudden blue and clear places. People haven't seen it that way but yes. I'll tell you what I'll make a deal I will. I will provide as soon as I can find the heart data. I will send it to you so you can go there okay. All right You know one thing. I've noticed a Lotta stuff online about Wildlife seemingly liking this This current situation I've seen pictures of cody's watering down the streets of San Francisco and move in this part of the country and Etc WHO ARE GETTING BOLDER. With less people out they can hate. Let's go check out These places are normally little too crowded for our tastes. So just you know another interesting factor here that Actually I wanted to. I wanted to bring your circle back to you and bring you into a little bit of this conversation about the future when when when When Dan Talks About You know kind of learning lessons about how we might We might approach the future differently from the way we had Been operating our site up until say you know February of this year. What are your thoughts there? Do you have any any sort of any Any things we ought to be focusing on in your mind. Well I mean I I actually ban Read a really interesting article. I think it was in the Guardian yesterday that that mapped out. Sort of the the air quality changes but Sort of looking bigger picture of what that means you know I. I think that this is kind of a unique opportunity for everyone. Because you know we are all GonNa. We've all had to make changes right now. Right and the sort of question to me is in. What ways can we use this? Time to actually develop adaptive habits. You know like like Dan was talking about You know growing food One of the things that I sort of remember fondly from my childhood when I said the my favorite memories actually when I was a kid my grandparents and I always would plant a huge garden every summer and I never quite understood it but my grandparents both lived. I'll be. They were young through the depression and I remembered you know I was A had had some chicken salad for lunch the other day and there was like a bite left or something and I was like. Oh I think I'm all done and how this moment of like wait a minute actually. This is not really the world right now. Where like it feels good to like. Throw away that last night and I'm not saying that that is a a sort of healthy. No clear your plate mentality but it really kind of drew some strong parallels from me between you know the the mantra and my grandparents household about you know. Make sure you clean your plate off when you for dinner and and it just it really resonated that like wait a minute this is not about. You know making sure that I'm like wearing off my plate like a good kid. You know it was about like being mindful that resources can be very scarce some time and I. We are not there. You know we are not in a universe right now where scarcity is you know the current issue right now but I agree with Dan that I think they were called Victory Gardens. really needs to start being the okay You know that was sort of one of my first thoughts when all of this happened and then reached out to some friends with the children who You know have to now do school at home and so actually put together. Some Steve Paxton. My little our little joke was the garden gnome sent out garden starter taxes. And you know it's the thing that everyone can do together. You know you can learn about The germination process and kind of how plants grow and you know what it takes to actually cultivate the food that we eat and Go AHEAD DAVE. I want to jump into your per second. I'm you're absolutely go. Ahead is beginning to be in some parts of the country because everybody's sort of poured in this moment because they're frightened but because we have a very proud little Delivery System We've we've basically done this whole thing. Called just in time delivery on everything in the economy which means no longer store stuff around the way we use during Where we are more fragile and so what I fear. Is that later this year? Since they're going to be descriptive on there we have a lot of fun. Warriors how down who may be subject to the covert diseases. Anybody which will then inhabit inhibit delivery of at the same with financial resources. I don't want to go into all of that right now. Say we live in our as Rogersville calls at the sweet spot. We may have continued to have rain and even warmer weather Which means somebody a longer growing season? My Garden is out from under the snow last year in April and had a at this point they had a foot of snow on it And Are we are now urging people. That's one of the things we're going to be doing with this. Hannaford month is to surgeon people to imagine turning their lawns into gardens. We've been all live like English gentry for a long time where we have this Lovely mowed lawns in front of our houses. Giving us us You know allusion that we somehow were privileged and living a rich like then we are. I mean you know compared to history where were amazingly rich. All of us but We also have a lot space from where. I'm looking up my street. There's all sorts of open space but could be wonderful food production areas and like the Victory Gardens during World War Two when like the Home Garden during the depression. We now have to re imagining how we get the bulk of our food locally rather than assuming that it's coming from elsewhere we've been living for a long time with it. Ninety percent of our food and Vermont comes is imported. Okay and we and we can walk into a price chopper and finding isles full of fresh produce and stuff. It's amazing to the high But that's not necessarily going to keep showing up and if we don't start taking some knowledge of our own resources right balance so Ernie are wonderful land and climate into food so by the time we get to lock Tober And I'm just GonNa make a side. No Hawaiian is not over. My wife is an author. She Kuroda book a couple of years ago. So we're we're we're more understanding of what's going on and other people She Because you know there's a very good possibility that We are going to see this. Dip Down the virus. The epidemic dip down during summer doesn't like warm weather so we may see a pullback while we we may all the Losing Social Distance Union by June but by October again WANNA cools down to come back. Because that's what happened in the nineteen eighteen flu. It disappeared for the summer and then came October November even worse than it was previous so we have to wear a bath and we have to be worried about. What are we have in the basement? You know what are we growing for food? How do we get? How do we maintain it? And this is where the Front Yard Garden. Make a huge difference in our individual families food security in our neighbourhood security. So that's my pitch on that one because it's probable shortages May Be coming and they could be here as early as the summer. And we want to be prepared to meet Because we're for maters resilient that way. Okay I I may have lost three or do we have a caller on the line. Can you also turn up a caller? I mumble the background. Only yeah Let's bring Bruce from Essex Sakhalin. Good Morning Bruce. Hey all And Good Morning You know it's an interesting discussion about Victory Gardens In my great friend Roger. All the great for Monir just posted something like that on digger. But I'm I'm reading a book by an archaeologist Joseph. Tanner called the collapse of complex societies and It's really interesting. Because societies become more complex more technical and this has happened throughout history. They require a number of inputs. That keep them going it eventually. There's a shock to the system and they deteriorate but one of the interesting things he mentioned is that In areas of those societies that are more agrarian that have access to food They have Considerably more resilient so that would certainly Apply to a place like Vermont except we do need a more intensive effort in Promoting food resources here at home. I mean it's a trip back to the back to the future. Perhaps so the concerns that your two guests talking about are very very valid. And it's going to take some comprehensive in creative thinking going forward because we can get through this Mess right now. Perhaps but it's going to always be a threat and this is where Homegrown resilience And home grown food May make a difference in the future so thanks for discussing this morning and thank you call really appreciate it. Dan. I'm sorry I think you were in the middle of something. What were you dullness? Oh no you're just following on what Bruce was saying I'm a big advocate of the farmers markets. And they're being now with the social distancing thank God contained by the Department of Health. They're also determine health saying well. You know you're not needed during the winter Even though the farmers it now reads and stuff and they're creating but the State Department of Health is creating undue Regulations on the farmers. We should be figuring out every way we can to support those folks get as much out of their Their farms are serious. We can which means really shifting how we think about the farmer's markets from a sort of attraction Kind thinkable hounding to something that that's actually vital to our future. I think. Yeah I I I think. The farmers market is a good example of something which Clearly there's a there's there's a there's a germ of something very important there which is whole idea of locally produced food and the and it's availability to us on a fairly immediate basis And and yet there is. There are also this all this discussion about social distancing and can we actually you know Logistically offer eight t the traditional Saturday morning farmer's market here in Montpellier In the way we have in the past no probably not it would have to change in certain respects and Do you have any thoughts? Dan On on on what a farmer's market might look like this summer well. I think that there can't be one that does incorporate social business. They'RE BEGINNING TO EXPERIMENT WITH IN BOSTON. But it's basically like you go into the supermarket six marks on the floor to keep apart and we have to have something where people can browse down the aisle. I think we have to return states for the farmers market. All of it and 'cause we're and what you do is you browsed on the sort of pure in three feet from the food point to it The vendors stays back then you step back of the social. Visiting the vendor may wear way out or whatever right. Now you're supposed to call literally just supposed to make an call online and pay for it and then you can go to the farmers market and pick it up on Saturday but you can't actually see what there is. You can't be talking you. Can't you know so we've gotTA figure out? How do we get allow the social scene and some of that commerce? That is necessary and I think we can do it. I think we you know this is just an imagination Exercise that we have not put our mind through. I think the time is now to start thinking about how we promote. The local food absolutely hurts him. I go ahead actually. I think to. There's a critical component Tallin best. Oh which is you know we are here as you know as folks who who have some tools and some experience and and I totally agree with everything. You're saying Dan. I think the humidity sort of more emergent challenge is. What are we going to do to make sure that the people who have been you know directly impacted who are now out of work with no you know no source of income right now are able to take care of their families and sort of that day to day thing and sort of thinking about how you know one I think is really assessing. What community means actually look like in terms of you know? What do we need to to be able to accomplish? You know how many how many families are you know. Unemployed right now. What what are those sort of like immediate responses that we can do And I think the other component and I love that you're thinking about this I had. I lived in Italy when I was younger. Many many years ago now Talking about well feel well. I feel like I've lived a lifetime and a week at this point but You know one of the things that really struck me. When I first arrived in Italy was the sort of community culture is very different or it was when I was there. And you know the approach to food shopping and the approach to you You see eating and and to life looks looked then very different than than what I was accustomed to. And I think there's there's going to be some significant shifts coming in terms of sort of how me how we understand what getting through this means. Not just you know from like a an emotional standpoint. Which is I think. Far More important than than people are acknowledging because feelings are really hard to talk about you know and and so. I'm wondering Dan kind of what the interplay is where people who are you kind of really struggling immediately because we've overlooked their needs for so long and sort of doing what we can do as a community to help position all of is to make those transitions that we need to make and I you know I i. I can only control what I can control right. I think that's true of any of us and so what I would love to sort of figure out more and and I think this is a bigger conversation. Statewide is what can those of us do that. You know have skills that have knowledge ability things like that you know. How can we use those two to transition to what comes next? Because I don't think that we can return to life as we know it. And maybe that's not a bad thing in certain aspects and it will not will not be a bad thing but it's going it's going to require everybody you know who has been basically assuming that things will go on the way it has to sort of you know. Do Enter into this conversation just as you said that we've got to start beginning. Imagine things will be different. How do we work together to make them as sure and Improve our collective well-being as possible and that includes even the least among us. And that's where we're going to have to turn a lot of You know land over to people and help them begin to get food advocates. We also got. We got an old state. So there's a lot of people. Were not gonNA have the energy to do that work. So how do we mobilize the college students and high school students are currently not being fully employed and their studies to Help make this happen. Where can where can we find the land that can make it happen? Where do we get the seeds Because every place that I know that selling seeds right now says Oh my God. We're so ready. So it's it's. It's something that we have to do some mobilizing around nine. You know what I hate to say this but we are fast approaching atop the hour. Which means we're about time you raise a lot of really good questions. Dan and I appreciate your insights from both of you Ashley. Hill and Dan Jones. My two guests this last segment of the Dave Ramsey show. Thanks so much for joining me this morning. That by for having US Davis. It's been a fun conversation. No thank you for reminding all of US David that we're not alone in this and that you know it really. This is a really trying time for everybody. And I'm I'm grateful that we have like you. Who are you know who continue to get up show up already? Thanks again we are going to go to the end of the show. Actually on the Dave Ramsey show. It's tuning in our ninety five for another addition of our program. Stay tuned now for a news conference with Governor Phil Scott. Being broadcast live on. Wd FM and am stay healthy. Everybody have a good day.

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EP 62 PR & SEO : How I  grew a startup from 0 to 40M+ page views and got acquired by Google

She Wins Podcast

51:13 min | Last month

EP 62 PR & SEO : How I grew a startup from 0 to 40M+ page views and got acquired by Google

"Today's episode is brought to you by the podcasting club. The community that help you start. Grow and monetize your podcast. I'm a huge fan of podcasting. And i believe everybody should start podcast but the main question that i get from people is how do i actually started a podcast. What is the process shootout. Use these microbes. Mike do actually need to wear headset or something. And i'm just like let's keep it simple and that's why i created this member. She to hope. Bluestar your podcast. In the right way to help you get started to help you. Grow your podcast and help him. Wanna your if you wanna learn more about his membership head over to their podcasting club. Dot com in obviously linked are going to be in the show. Welcome to the she winds. Podcast the place for you to learn the systems and the strategies to grow your business and avoid costly mistakes every week. Your host an amazing guests have conversations that will inspire you motivate you and empower you to show up and make it happen. Learn about marketing. Golding authority lead generation self love and much more with your host marketing and business. Strategist your soon to be business. Vesti tia through saney. Hello everybody walk into today. They're epi. I hope you ought to ingrain. Hope you order in a basin and you're excited for today's episode because today we're talking about pr and seo something that many people including myself. I'm not really into. We don't know how how this works like when someone asked me to write something i get like okay. I don't want to do it. I get a pontiac attack anxieties coming. So today i have on the podcast. Demetri drug dealers and he helps companies do keyword research right article on their website. On cuba's that went around for and do around those are link building all this stuff that he's gonna talk himself about dimitri basically grew a startup from zero to fourteen billion page views. True pr in seo and then got out company acquired by google and obviously he learned a lottery process so basically he applied everything he learned into his recent company code just to reach dot io and is a diy pr software tool which again from zero to five thousand palace paying customers and these customers include airbnb hubs parts sima tech so literally you know what kind of caliber. We're talking about here so just to reach out as well acquired li-literally a couple months ago in december and dimitri in general over the last ten years he published causing five hundred plus articles. Dr that you can find on forbes entrepreneurs wired and many other publications so i'm so excited to talk dimitri here and me and him already had the chance to kind of have a conversation on clubhouse as well so welcome to the show dimitri. Thanks for having me. Thanks for having me. Thanks for such an awesome in tennessee. Lena bed how you actually started he. S your pr. I was just like anybody else you know like in my video. I say i had no background in marketing. A software engineer. I was unhappy in my job. I quit my job. I sold everything i had. I got into my honda. Civic with my friend who is my wife now and we just drove cross country to california because she wanted to go to geico master's degree and it was in california and i was reading a magazine called web two and it was all about startups getting money from investors and they were these young kids in silicon valley. This was two thousand seven. Who's already pretty big industry. They're of course. And i was like i gotta go and check this out you know and i didn't have anything to my name. We just packed up our stuff and we drove across country and stayed in this motel and tried to get an apartment. And i joined the same school that my girlfriend drove my wife now. Middlebury college graduate school there. And i just had i want to get an mba everybody. 'cause i was just like this loader software engineer wanna talk to anybody and like i'll get an mba. And before. i even started the program. I got introduced to this guy manala just sign. He was like he was a graduate of this program and he was. He was from he humidity from india and he kinda self taught entrepreneur. He was number twenty at link thin and he was starting his just getting started going right before he was closing money from investors. I was like oh my god. This is like oh my god. This is amazing and i really try to get job with i was like oh can you hire as like well. Can you do any market. I don't i don't do anything i don't know what the do he's like. Oh here give you a test. We're starting this company. Cross the go. Put up a page on kapiti. And i was like oh okay i guess oh i'll just create a page and he's like if you can keep it up for twenty four hours. You have yourself a free marketing internship. I put it up. I thought it'd be easy. But all these editor started attacking me saying. Oh this is promotion. What are you doing random stuff on wikipedia. You know so. I actually did make up all sorts of things. I didn't know him but apparently he was number twenty and lengthy and and he had accomplish things so i was quickly googling trying to put notes in there and say hey this is a legitimate thing and he was the number twenty linked thin and he's starting you company and he's raising money so anyway. I kept the page up He gave me an insurance ship and in the process of the next two years during my kind of going to school from nba. i a lot of know-how from him. so he he taught me how to pitch journalists. And how to do this on your own and how to figure out what to write. Journalists and how to get conversations going has like gosh. It was incredible start to a career in content marketing. Co pr. because i didn't know anything from any at all and nba really didn't help much either. I mean there was more lake broad stroke kind of thinking that you learn so start quite a wellness pod. Let's say like you had to learn everything while like studying and stuff like that so from there. How did he actually go to paula. That that's actually the company that you. Why isn't there yet was transitioned. You had to go through. So polar polls was a company started by luke w he's a founder of like mobile first movement. If you guys ever heard of lake building a app or mobile version. I before he kinda wrote all the books and i met him so after cross loops across got acquired by left before crossing quiet. I learned a lot from renamo. But i left and i went to go work at a design firm and working at that design firm I ended up Meeting this guy. Luke and i. It's funny actually a cool story. While i was working at the design firm. There's a journalist named walt mossberg. He's kind of like a big name. he was like recode. Vox you know he. He did all things d like he was personal technology. Columnist wall street journal greeley big name right and i saw how mrinal would strike up conversations with him just over like email and i was like. Oh gosh so my first day on my first full time job they were doing like a design. Half or something like that and like. Oh the building design app. I'm going to email walt mossberg. i'm gonna get an interview with him. And he responded to me and i was so surprised like i was a nobody like i. This was my first job and internship is like sure. I'll take a look at thing and we get on this call and i'm like well. This is a design app. Her web designer to get feedback from their clients. He's like i don't. I mean i cover personal tech like i do consumer stuff. What does this this to beat like. Well this is kinda like beat soc- out trying to make it say. This is not accurate at all. Please don't call me again. It was just had like engine years this my day. Three or four on the job. I had like all these engineers scrambling trying to put together. This demo and i was like oh gosh let's learn one. Main lesson learned really look at what journalists really wants to see and try and put your story next in line and see if they really fit. and so. that's where. I kind of learned a lot. But i also met this guy luke. He was starting company polar. So he's like. Hey you're pretty good at this. Pr outreach stuff when to join and you can do pr for us and polar was appalling app just like a little pole. You put it up. He can say. Hey joanne like mcdonald's or burger king or i dunno dunkin donuts starbucks something very similar to to that anybody can put these things up and we just needed to grow it and i didn't know how to do it and i was just figuring things out at night literally. One day was looking at tech me which is like breaking news stories and i was like. Oh maybe i should create polls on breaking news stories and then literally ask them to promote the polls and put them the data and it didn't really work at first because i didn't have any data and they didn't want to put our goals into their stories but what i ended up doing is i started creating like x. Box versus ps four. I'll just create a poll. And then i'll promote it on twitter. I'll pay money to promote it through ads or something get some some data in there and then pitch them and say. Hey you just wrote on this topic. I just have some data. Can you put it in. And so that just worked and so for two years. This is halloween from zero to forty million pages. I literally pitch that same playbook over and over and over again i would email all the journalists any given breaking news topic and say. Hey you just wrote about this. Can you include my poll in. And that's we kept growing and eventually start embedding their polls and we ended up working with npr and tech crunch in all the hearst publications forbes and all the major publications were using us by the time google acquire this and it was just incredible to strike up these conversations with everybody and that was just a turning point. I think it my career. Overall i thought. Oh wow. i really landed on something. That i could just do. For a while and teach beat by launched my course online education platform to help people do the same. Because anybody can do it. You know and then i started building. Just reach out to kinda help. People do it with tools but yeah because everybody can do. But you don't know how to do it. And that's the that's the big and i just want to jump in the bath when you said that you miss age and you email journalist got a reply from him and you didn't expect it. What did you message to kind of. Get you kind of attention. Because obviously he did in some attention even what always you. How did he get attention. Sexual act fair. A few of these samples out. I'll send them to you too. I got actually ashton kutcher also to apply to reply to me later while working as urb-e iran speaker series called serves soapbox and i would try and get really high name speakers to disobey in my interview so manal taught me like when i was across the really study the person likes look at their curiosities their interests and go after quality over quantity approach so most people when they think like. If you're anybody listening to this they think of pr as a large list. The visually in our minds we think of a large list of journalists. And we're gonna pitch all of them at once and we're going to put our our our scoop like what are we doing. We're launching something. We're doing something right. The very notion of that is a little bit broken and archaic because most of those people are not interested in what you have to do what you're saying so what you wanna do. Is you want to personalize it to a level where you're actually striking up conversation with somebody on something interesting and you want to build a develop their relationship more work and immediately as you're listening to this you might be not for me. I don't have time for this. Because i don't see the roi right away because most people psychologically want to see something quick email. I get a response. I don't if i don't i just scale a thousand five thousand ten thousand emails and if i can't get those lists i'm going to go pay a firm to do it or something like that. So that's actually doing more disturbs to more people versus building relationships yourself with you know. Hi lena high profile individuals. And so i kind of started through that per protein. That's all i've done. Is i would look at so would wall mossberg. I look bad. Oh he was talking about the smartphone in the future of the smartphone and i o s six versus seven. I was like oh since you already covered talk about these topics. I had three polls on that day. That's why i and created three more. And i said well i actually ran. Polls on the data information you talked about what do you think of data in my polls and so to him he'd already have covered it and so he was like okay. Be interesting since. I was at the design firm. I wasn't pitching anything around holes. So i again. I was pitching designed app and that was my mistake is thinking. Oh he would cover design app. You've been no. It's not really be to see. It's not a consumer app approach designers and but to strike up conversation. I i used the poll idea that kind of says. Hey you you're interested in that with ashton kutcher. I can show you the email that i sent. But it was literally i interviewed. Maybe five or seven people that he himself mentioned in all his talks at stanford and different kind of talks that he gave. And then i said. Hey i'm a big fan of you of your work in philanthropy that we're investing in startups. I interviewed these five people that you mentioned the lot in my speaker series. Would you be interested in being a six one and So i worked very hard to try and get everyone that he looks up to get on some kinda call with me since personalizing quality over quantity. That's why i always say anybody who's just starting out. There's you know like newsletters that come out. Journalists actually ask questions like harrow. Response sources like tons of these out there we index all of them adjust reach out who allows me to easily search him but you can just subscribe their free and you can just sit back and respond to journalists questions like somebody has a question on e commerce marketing or whatever it is and you can learn what they're asking eventually start building those relationships i think it makes a lot of sense especially as saying like meaning tension on getting more person at all. People initially like say like they go broader like. Oh i need to go through. Maybe hundreds of us more journalists. Before i can even think and people don't even their stuff like you and dairy to kind of go to ashton kutcher. You like kind of you know. Is that mindset as well. You know i would do it. I would try if it doesn't work cool but i'll try a lot of people. Don't even want to try. Because they're already in their mind just like it's not gonna happen. But i feel like you know. It's a mindset as you like i'm gonna go to those people i'm gonna rush to email them. I'm going to try and get the attention anything even if they give me an attention on once when i'm giving it to try and convince them it's not like you know tennessee and that you know keep going kind of my off and i'd like to find. These day is about being intentional before actually reaching out. We've like the lesson that you learned needs to know. What are they is about. What i've been working on so it's been very specific as all on targeting and what we're going to tell them of the kind of reached out to them so it's like getting personal. I i feel like that's something to meet and i feel like i just need to go in there and pitch myself but nowadays peachy yourself out there. It's all about getting personal. People need to know that you care about them that you at their work. What they are doing what they're interested in about. And i think that's what made you successful in your our reaching your pi. The net yeah. I mean personalizing is one is something people forget. And that's hard to do and it takes a lot of time. Some people just don't decide not to but there are ways to kind of speed it up and outsource some of it like you can have assistant like i employ an assistant philippines. That just does research for me. So i tell them. Hey here's a list of links of publications find me. Journalists who cover how to pitch journalism. Pr tools communications that realm and different marketing tools and talk about like give me the latest articles that they've written about look at their twitter profile. And tell me questions that they asked. and so. there's a column for latest articles. Lou this questions in that kind of stuff. It costs me five bucks an hour. I might you know maybe spend two hundred dollars a month or something on that research. You really is worth my time. Because i can work on creating the pitch in the ideas around these things. And then you know like i might write the actual pitch and then i would say someone well. Can you take this pitch in kind of work. It into these details might pay somebody another two hundred dollars to do that. If i don't have any time but if you have time do i do it yourself. Then make it work and then you can scale. It was someone else's assistant. I wouldn't hire anybody to actually send emails on my behalf but doing some of that grunt work research may be creating some templates. It won't be perfect but it'll be somebody who can just do some of that work for you will end then you. The biggest thing is not to get bogged down by negative responses like everything that i've done eighty percent of it ninety percent of it usually just didn't get responses failed was bad idea and it's very easy to get up every morning and say okay. Well i just fell down a whole bunch yesterday and the day before and the week before and i. I haven't really gone the success in like two three months now with anything whether why do why do i keep doing this. And psychologically you're like no. I gotta go back to the last moment where i had success and so it's like but you should keep trying. You just should be changing what you're doing if something isn't working change it to be something new like pitch different angle a different way to strike a conversation email isn't working go to lengthen. Find them on link. Thin struck up a conversation there. Maybe ping on instagram. Maybe clubhouse would be the next thing join clubhouse and go to some rooms where journalists are hanging out raise. Your hand asked a question that you know they might be interested in. You know like just think a little bit outside. The box of oldest. Didn't work out. I must go and hire pr firm. I am not good at it. That's the general thinking behind or like i don't have the expertise really not like can start a conversation with a random person that the conference great lakes. Then you have the expertise to to into pitch a journalist. I feel like you wanna do it january. You know because everybody just day awayday going into like they go in the mindset. I'm going to sell when a train. And i think you always go back to dust so when you going with them mindset you perceive it. Those journalist named no one's going way in with did we had a different way. You're given support when when the already knew and like like is something that's going to support when you're writing or on sunday then is help them kind of thing. They can any way that someone is trying to fish themselves get in on forbes and stuff like that so and you don't have to a lot of people listening to this might be like oh i have to create a whole data source or pull. You don't have to do anything you don't even need to create and you day there around anything you can just say. Hey i have a poll. I'm working on or a have a study and working on in this sector. The preliminary preliminary findings are these and you can just get at what they might be. Are you interested to hear more. So then if you get responses back then you actually go any create that day. This whatever it is that you want to but i have most of my students at pr that converts online course outside of just reach out. That's what they do our customers on just reach out. They just pitch ideas that they think might work. That are in a relevance gap. So it's like what the journalists has covered and what you wanna do and there needs to be something different or unique about what it is and what a by someone is getting started like someone like me. I don't like rights like writing my team. And i don't want it to be my. You don't wanna game. I like talking podcast by what is like someone wants to and games yards and seo. But just don't have that thing that they wanna ride. We have been outright. Yeah so i actually you know those fifteen hundred articles you said people might think of it and say this is crazy. The guy just made all this stuff up like just ridiculous. How can somebody write fifteen hundred hundred this well. A portion of those were actually written by other people on other publications. I just page them. The ideas and they wrote these articles on topics that i pitched them. I just gave him outlines. But what i do is i work with maybe to eight different writers. Sometimes i have more. But in given moment i have seven or eight writers and they know mice like style and when i write about they know and so i also don't love writing all time it's still like i speak russian english. It's not like. I have like a mix of languages usually when i'm writing and so i m i outlined things a lot. Why do i deal notes for them. And what i i'll assign and they'll say okay. I need ten pitchers. Written a here is an outline. And i'll just talk it through. I'll create audio recordings of it and send it off to the writer. The writer gets it writes. It sends it to me. I might give them feedback right in audio too. If i just short on time arm going somewhere. I just literally would give him feedback and we'll go back and forth like that Hiring writers just easy because It only gives you more time. The problem with it of course is that the writer is not you and so your feedback is really important. And you're gonna end up paying a lot of money if you're giving a lot of feedback of course 'cause revisions and so you wanna be just careful about that But in pr the biggest thing would be if you're writing guest articles here. You're going to need writers. If you're writing pitches you might hire one writer or part time writer to just help you. Right pitches If you're not into just written content all that much you're not gonna get that excited when you're on an article written up Is just not going to be. But if you get podcasts or do interviews or video interviews you'll get more excited about it and then you wanna do more about it and so what i would do is just pay pivot towards where you're most excited about. Which would be podcasts. Maybe it be clem. House would be like you know. Maybe video literally your philippine You know assistance would probably need to create lists of those and he just like literally piven focus on those and your pitches would be kinda similar to them. It'll be a the template is pretty standard like hey we covered here you know. Run these things here on my past episodes. Here's things that. I kinda wanna talk to your audience about a udal interest in during like an audio interview with me and then you kind of writing out of it more or less. I mean you might need a writer to write those pitches out by then you kind of just use those features to pitch video audio kinda outlets than just focus on that folks your pr around bat. See how that's working out for you as you're it it won't count like doesn't help always with the seo aspect of it but you know it could. Yeah so basically you can hire someone from five value. Maybe try out. Different writers from five you you by the with more demolished and then hired off personnel design you can. If you're just you need some pitches rewritten and some research done around. Who the target to create a customized list with personalized kind of the emails. Things like that that research ya fibers. Great like any kid from college can sit there and google all day and create a list of lake call. You know here is a list of podcasts. You should pay. here's the name of the host. Here's the personalized starter. On like the last three episodes in what they did you can get the perfect job for a kid. It's like ten bucks an hour. Can you just give me a list of fifty or seventy of these. I think as long as you get pretty good personalized starters written up then and the the key the cobra you hire also right up a little email for you you can change it up on the template. Yeah yeah yeah. Yeah so that you don't have to do a lot of that research kind of stuff happening. Yeah yeah because especially leaving behind his joe. It's decoupled logging rights in equal rights derived. You don't own. You have when i think about it and like my mind is just right thing because that's the main it is. Yeah well it's different. It's different what you wanna get out of it to always say like why do you want to do. Pr people come to us all the time they have money. I like my questions whether you doing like why like well. I don't have a goal like i. Just kinda want some on my side. Wanna look legitimate. Can all brand. These are very vague goals. And so you're gonna kinda not know if you're doing a good job at it or what. What do you want to keep with it right. And so i always think of like what's the end result for me. It's always been traffic conversion revenue right. And so i've been an seo person so i've been using addio video and written content all to back links to specific pieces of content on my blonde which ranked number one for my keyword. And then i start getting traffic and revenue from that one piece of content so they do have those writers and i do right but if you know a lot of people listening to this this might seem to advance sophisticated than you. Don't you don't want to jump into this thinking okay. I got a right content. And i gotta get breaking on role in all this stuff. It's like you just start out. Slow get on a podcast or or something. Small siv that translates into any revenue or it might not be revenue might be like followers or traffic to your site or some kind of influx of activity. And do more of it or change it up. That's where i would start Small winds good for like to keep going actually be patient with everything that you do especially because people end of gold podcasting. The banks made me promote the courts. Day and then the next name is so a how we way like along short term goals in the outlook podcast and then on sales. I writes blog. And then it's actually the location inside takes time and effort and whenever we hear out there just so broken most of the time like we don't nobody talks about like failures and ground work. Everybody just kind of works like five or seven years and they're like okay. Now you know this happened. i hear here. I've achieved this thing. Now i'm gonna talk about it. And i go to like i haven't shared enough of like the process. I have been on cast pretty regularly throughout this journey. Just reach out. But it's like. I haven't haven't been sharing as much of leg stuff been failing. I did like failures interview a couple times. A couple podcasts. I'm failing but i just haven't shared like how much work is to just wait. And it's very slow ground type of work where your inbox is usually not very happy notes every time league. Yes you got hundred new subscribers you have five thousand new. It's like it's slow getting going. But anything i tell you. That's what was going to. I went to go in there. And you like what. I did or china today to come in this joining. Yeah i think. I was just doing an interview with thrive global on this too and i guess like a couple of things that kind of stand out for me and i think about when it comes to challenge so challenges for me were acquiring customers ranking on google to try and beat my competition and you know when people say how to write the press release. I come up. I people convert to paying customers. They stay on. We might product as a pain custom because people come and go. They wanna do pr today. They don't wanna do it tomorrow. They have all these questions. Is it gonna work at journalists are going to cover me so you open up. This can of worms of lake. Oh we have a tool to help do pr. Everybody and their mother's like how much time i gonna get when i'm gonna get it. How much work they put in like. It's just the dole. I can't promise anything you know from from journalists sites so those were like constant issues and struggles with it but there are two things that kept coming back to one is. I interviewed two people. Patrick byrne he's founder of overstock dot com and and philip rosedale. He's the guy who built second life which is a very popular game. And so when i interviewed patrick byrne he had the six month mentality so when he was in his thirties or forties. He was diagnosed with some condition where They told him he only has six months to live. And so he reema every evaluated his liping said. Well we're doing. What am i doing day today. Is it worth it Where should i be spending time and effort for the next six months. So that's all. I have on this on this earth and so after six months. They actually told them the. There's a chance they can help them and they gave them another six months so he learned kind of to live six months at a time really evaluated how. He's working what he's doing and made sure that he's the actually passionate about what he's doing and spending the most time where it matters right now because he'll never get back in. The end is like so near the second. One was philip rosedale and he just told me he when we met with him. He's like hey. What are you doing and i was like well. I'm doing the doing this. Pr polar is like. Well let me ask you this. If you're gonna make any money you knew this already. You'll never make any money out of this thing won't get acquire. This thing is just gonna kinda close down the next three years. Would you still be doing it. And i was like probably 'cause i wanna learn how to do this right right but that was like a good question because like i turned around and most people around me were not doing that. They were just they have a job or they get kinda sorta thought this was a good idea and so those things stuck with me and so that's what it was like my anchor driving me through most i guess Banks that i kind of struggled with day today like all customers leaving churn people not staying on not wanting to do pr. Because they don't know they're going to get more problems. Would you know pitching and all these different traffic issues that we were having not ranking on. Google you know partnerships that didn't work out people that promise The they thought their pr. There's just dealing with customers. And in their journey through the product realizing there's a lot of problems with promising pr and making that as a promise. Those were two main anchors. Like i even just reach out with just going to close doors. I'd still probably be doing it. Because i'd be teaching people how to do. Pr and that's what passion. And that's what i kind of want to do. In life. i probably still reapply prioritize. Like work life balance. I still more time with my kids and family than i do working. I talk about it all the time. Educate people on how to do that. And so yeah. I always like like to tell people This because i see people running like today because we are so many apps and everything is just always on you you. You always open up your phone. This is why i have this crappy iphone. Five that You know just dies when you go outside. So i can't really have anything on it. I literally i make calls on it. And i don't want to river even though it's on three g. And that they keep telling me is gonna come down. I might get a flip phone. But it's like just slowing down because everything is pushing you to get more and more and more and more you're kind of chasing something. He chases somebody's else's goals in just coming back to these two things really help. Kind of ground me and Just persevere and do what i been doing and i. I didn't care like if if this had to close down. great. I wouldn't have an amazing to four or five years running it. I would met awesome people without help the whole bunch of people and so be like it didn't close. I would be happy and content with it. And that's why. I kind of do was doing what i think you said is so important kind of remember especially the by as witches in someone else's goals and that's something that we see a lot happening either yourself if you sit down and reflect every time your social media especially myself sometimes sit down and every time. I'm on social media. And i see these new coaches doing this new stuff and doing this stuff and what youtube videos. I'm so influence to follow what they're doing because in my head when he doing is actually the right pathway but is the actually the reality and sometimes i do sit down and think about this thing and kind of l. myself tickets back. That's that's the goal. Don't keep comparing yourself to people out there. Don't keep do going the direction that they want to go. Hand of tickets that back in you know. Go into what you want to do. Think about the things are lying to who you are and what you want to do. So i think that is very important. Actually said it's a lot of people struggle with that. I feel like i. They just don't exactly know what they wanted to do. And they kind of know their strengths but they like. I talked to people in their lake. I kind of want to write in. Okay we'll what do you want to write well and really good at writing. But i don't have a and so then it. It becomes this roadblock but there's like vision and mission workshops and there's just a lot involved there on figuring that part out of lake your. It's your really big strong suit that you're passionate about. How can you actually create an end goal out of it could be a blog or a book or maybe a podcast or whatever so like figuring that out and working on that would probably yield you more long-term by people just kind of leave it there like i don't really know and i'll just go get a job and i'll figure it out later while i get a job and so then all your effort isn't that job and they kind of meander around you really wanna dig deep inside to see like what ticks. What would you be doing if you knew you would never gonna make money out of fame and then it's worth it. It's worth it to just do that thing. Because there is only so many days you just forget in a mundane environments like winter or whatever like you. Just enjoy to inside. Just get up here like open up your inbox. You're like okay. I got a response. All these things And that's like the world's do list for you have and that's what most people that's what they do. They do other people's to do this for because that's what you gotta do. Your day is only this short so you gotta get done so you never the. You are never on your to do list. It's your inbox. So it was on there and people use all these apps but still hilly people are not really questioning like what makes them tick inside whether they want to. Do you know important kind of like stop and reflect these kind of things like in life in general. I like the whole one all these ads. They're constantly telling us we direction. We should go with. Because i'm going to follow someone else's direction we never have the. We don't actually have the time to kind of think about where we wanted to go. Because that's the reality if you actually trying to take a different direction and you may get out of your job. I must be. Their job is bad by the time we are in the job. And i remember back in the days when i used to have a job i used to think. How can i make these end. Faster can be day. come to an end. When is the we can come in cutting. Come faster so you kind of always seem be on this kind of our roadway. Just can't wait for everything to move too fast. Yeah and you're only have so many days you don't actually want to push your age aging process faster right but you kinda want these days faster. You're you're spending most of your life doing stuff that you're kinda sorta and you got to figure it out like you. Can't you need a salad. You need money to live on your new business or whatever you're doing isn't going to flourish overnight. So that's i mean it's a challenge. It's not easy. But i would still work on that because even though it's hard at least you're doing something that you're really really passionate about and you really want to do and it shows i feel like overall it should. It's maybe it's just a small pivot you though so let's go back to you know. Pin's you some action the holly snus matching take feel. Yes so the first thing. I would say if if you've never done before i would definitely recommend going to help a reporter out or journal. Requests which is hashtag big to use journal requests and there's also response source those three jornal requests helper reporter al joyner requests and Response source these are newsletter. Aggregate were journalists bloggers. Podcasters are put not questions every single day. And there's thousands of them on any given topic. So if you're listening to this and you're really a big expert and i dunno environment and pollution that you would type those keywords in and you would see all these questions from cnn and forbes and other smaller publications specifically around that and so if you can answer those things great if you are an ecommerce entrepreneur marketing expert great within marketing ecommerce. And you'll get questions. Every single day started doing that because a you get to see what journalists and bloggers are asking about. Be your chance that being featured somewhere because you're subject matter expert and you're just responding to journalists you'll need to think of a story to page you don't need to create lists so people this is free. It's easy simple and really get your feet wet. Npr gets you some hits. So i would. I would start there as like thinking about promoting yourself the next thing. That is an actionable tip. I would say start thinking about. Just what do you want to do with this. Pr like how do you want this to help you with your business. And what is the long-term approach here and that's where you would start kind of pivoting. Npr that converts Course when i work through these calls with students this comes up a lot. They get three four mentions then they come on the call the on call and say hey dmitri what what do i kind of need to do here and i was like okay. Well what do you want to do with pr. What is what is want to do it. I are like well maybe revenue would be one thing or maybe it's just building my image as a thought leader. This will be another goal but really figure out the goal right and then star working towards that goal so if it's revenue than you need to be producing content that's ranking high on google that constantly pulls in traffic that's important if it's just image building then you might be writing but doing guest articles or you might be doing podcast. Appearances by working on that goal is really important and from that role kind of figuring out what it is. You wanna do I know this one is a little bit of a like a big picture type of action item. It's not necessarily something tactical you can implement right away but it's important because then you figure out what you wanna do and you can always ask me what you wanna do. Read one of the articles guides. But it'll come to you. It should come rather than aunt natural and you can always ask send an email to me and ask But you know like image building. That means you're just being on podcast interviews in your guest articles you submitting content everywhere because your image is what you write about and talk about and if it's revenue than it's not so much appearing all over the place. It's literally traffic in and convergence so to get traffic end. You're either doing ads or you're doing organic and together ganic through content. You gotta rank on google and another to rank on google. You got to wink to content constantly so that piece of content keeps ranking higher. So those are like some things that i would start out with can give you more but i think as anybody who's starting out i've seen the so many times those are good things to take away. Think about get your feet wet with then reach allen i can send more tips more action items more things that you can like start implementing 'cause it's it's overwhelming. Sometimes you hear somebody talk about stuff to do. I don't know there's just stuff coming at you all the time so i don't want to give too much. We wanna keep this in causley. You know you cannot. Should he do it because a lot. In china we must be the end up doing that. Thank thank you so much for. Does the end. how it's they can go to my site. Kerm inally prolific dot com criminally prolific. That comes so prolific. it's criminal. That's how my wife named it. Currently dot com. There's a contact link there. They can check out pr converts which is my online education platform. Which i am focusing. Most of my attention on now The cliquot like a chat icon. Erica can send a note on. Pr that converts But yeah those are my two sites criminally prolific dot com. Pr converts maintenance gonna add on his details in the link in the description was mentioned all the resource them. Dmitri talk about checked any description mugging. I can stay in the show notes like watching youtube yet. Check the show notes on and he tells has getting. I would say like. Don't your rates to reach out and ask questions and it's important. You need to meet trees one of those people who's opened kinda support and you. You need anytime you have question. Now help you help. Customers who left us We're not paying us any money at all. I still go back and forth on them. I still help them. People that email me with questions alva- respond to most people You know if they have a question about pr and point them in the right direction. Yeah and also check out opposite. He's course yard advert make sure to gain to be. Is you know already. But i think the even going for team like you and all that stuff or you actually do podcasting you just go and then easiest to perform for you like each same people so kind of like when it with dimitri like always say. It doesn't cost anything question. Is you have any. Because i know nate in be like a little bit Dumped just like dumb question doesn't have any but no ask away fine. I was in your shoes. Like two thousand seven or eight failed down so many times trying to pitch. And i sent all sorts of things too fearful. I had all sorts of ideas about journalists. Wanna see and want to know. I would come up. I would send like letters to Like right out letters. Try and find their address. Put like stickers. I just i had also so weird ideas of how a journalist might want to see daddy steaks and you can avoid them by. Just reaching saying if dea that's like a little bit off caliber just ask me. I'll tell you it's gonna worker some stuff works you know. Grasshopper did an awesome campaign. Where they put. I think crickets their chocolate covered. And they are grasshoppers and grasshoppers. Grasshopper is like a phone company but it's the name as grasshopper so they put real grasshopper hoppers. They were dried dipped in chocolate. They put them in letters and they just sent them to all of these journalists and bloggers so all of these journalists and bloggers got letters. Go chocolate covered grasshoppers. That's crazy and they got tons of press and pr on that cnn. Orbs not dust series. I it's kind of like funny like oh look at what happens. This brand is doing like stunts like that. Were usually it's hard. It's like hit or miss like you can do hundreds of these but thank you so much but sherry nods valued today. Thanks for having me. We hope you enjoyed today's episode for more resources. Checkout www dot. She wins mastermind dot com. And don't forget to subscribe rate and review. See you next week.

dimitri walt mossberg ashton kutcher Golding authority Vesti tia geico master Middlebury college graduate sc manala google luke w Columnist wall street journal mrinal manal philip rosedale nba tennessee Demetri california
 Olive Gardens single Gnocchi problem  Lears open-the-factory blueprint. Ubers gig work jobs board. Olive Gardens survival plan.

Snacks Daily

17:57 min | 1 year ago

Olive Gardens single Gnocchi problem Lears open-the-factory blueprint. Ubers gig work jobs board. Olive Gardens survival plan.

"This is nick this Jack and this is snacks daily. It is Wednesday April eighth nick yesterday. Stocks barely moved did not move much at all. So we're going to get right to our three stores. Jack and I found a wonderful mixed happens to be the best one yet. Jack what are we got? I I you-you're should add a new title to its business car. Also the link Din of Gig work. We're going to endorse them for that. You Ride Hell. App has become the Go-to job board for gigging is now way collar. It's not blue collar. We're called it partial our second story. You've never heard of Lear Corporation even though you use their product every single when you're snacking on snacks daily in the back of a car your sit-in on a lear. He carseat company just published the Bible of reopening factories post cove nineteen shutdowns Yakin. I jumped in snacks. Were flipping through a safe work playbook third and final story my Alma Mater. I was trained and educated at the olive garden as a waiter. They just had an announcement and it wasn't an earnings announcement. It was actually. We're still here. Everything is mildly okay announced. But that's a real thing. Now it's funny because that's what the average diner says when the server returns to detail any feedback. Yes a watch. We're looking at what it's sales update from olive garden means for the future of restaurant. Hey Olive Garden be more like target before we get to that story. I got a flashback to the winter of two thousand seven when Nick and I were freshmen year roommates at Middlebury College. It was so cold. `Bout winter that Jack had to teach me where three sets of socks in Vermont mic somehow. Got Straight as I think. The professors were just being generous because Nicholas from neo around up at a certain point so nick writes an email to the New York Times and asks if they will publish news that you made the Dean's list because you know New York. Times is his local newspaper. I happened to grow up in Manhattan. It seemed like the only place to go but I should point out that my roommate. Jack also got Dean's list that quarter the New York Times at Nord Knicks email. The brow were former ignored my email because they didn't have occurred. Jack to go to the brattleboro weekly gazette turned out. That didn't exist wasn't a thing knackers. Local news is important for local democracy. It's also an unmatched resource for hilarious. Police blotter information. True story in the Valley reported this weekend. Local woman reported missing. Last week was actually just fishing by the creek with her daughter. It happens sometimes. You got to bump it up to the front page news. Knackers would covert nineteen outbreak. Local news is crucial. Local news makes its money off small and medium business ads and they're not buying ads right now because of the Ad Pacalypse that we've told you know. Most businesses are closed because of covert nineteen. So it's not making any sense to pay money to market to you in an ad in the local newspaper that means local newspapers are kind of in trouble right so tzakas coming to the rescue. Facebook is donating one hundred million dollars to help local newspaper. Jack and our spitball on this thing and we know that sucks. Not The only guy out there who can help our smackers can kinda helped to. We've all got extra time. We're not doing anything. Why not subscribe to the local newspaper? That's why we're whipping up. Quarantine challenge part do while. You're running like three miles listening snacks daily everyday or two miles. Give or take one or two. We gotta keep these paper boys and business. We should all subscribe to our local newspaper. Learn what's going on in our neck of the woods host a picture of an awesome local nugget news right to instagram or twitter. Tag Robin Hood Snacks. Jack and I WANNA see it more locally earlier. The better Hashtag digestible local news. Let's hit our three local stores. Daily snacks about the food. Is it candy? They don't reflect the views of robinhood families live formation just so recommending any securities. It's not a research report or investment advice offer or sale of a security that's next digestive Business News video financial. Llc member Finres Less S. I P. C. Four our first story. Jack's mother me and Carbonaro over there all of garden just gave an update about it. Sales numbers the Oji Lounge is going to extremes to survive now. The thing jacket. I WANNA point out here first before we jump into anything. Olive Garden is that every company should be updating their catchphrases. Right now for the next three months when you're not here you're still family when you're here you should be here. You really should be here. Unlimited socially distance breadsticks for five ninety nine. Your order the Olive Garden Sicilian Spaghetti. You get a bunch of Strands. Spaced six feet apart. Your order the GNOCCHI. It's just a single point. They quarantined the neo key for you and the takeout. Darden restaurants did experiential branding before millennials. Were even a thing. We're talking about restaurant. Group that owns companies like Bahama Breeze? Who's restaurants made you feel like spring break ninety six back no fi and capital girl which makes you splurge on desert because you're expensing this to your CFO's account if your attic avocado you feel like everyone with you is a cfo and the olive garden. Where I worked for five glorious months. Which makes you feel like you're in Tuscany. Without needing a passports knackers known kid who off the top of a Chianti? Like this guy over here. Can I just? I just want to give you full credit for that. Jack Seamless Torch my own. Creme Brule as let's just leave it at that. That's a French thing. Not An Italian restaurants is interestingly now fifteen hundred restaurants in that mega chain. Hey tweeting olive garden. Right now. For Serving Kremlin blind to me for five months and the stock has lost half of its value this year so the olive garden gave us all an update. Because we're all probably concerned with how the Olive Garden is if you're a shareholder you're like. Hey Oh gee you okay. And they're like we're still here going twice. If you're still alive. Well they decided to jump up and a wink three times. Their sales so far this quarter have plummeted thirty nine percent and this quarter hasn't ended yet that was for Darden restaurants. The whole restaurant group for Olive Garden in particular sales have plummeted by seventy one percent sixty four percent and sixty percent in the last three weeks. It's like the country's on a nationwide Atkins Diet. You can't even find a car brighton. That's because in mid March dard made the decision to close all dining rooms. Nobody can dine in anymore now. Darting closed one hundred percent of its dining rooms but an interesting thing we noticed. They've kept open ninety nine percent of the locations for take in fact all gardens. Takeout sales have more than doubled from sixteen million a week back in February. Two forty million per week last week as a result when. Darden made this. Hey we're still here announcement. Yesterday the stock jumped twelve percent on the delicious up to also to soothe investors concerned. They bragged that they have a billion dollars in their bank account and executives are taking a fifty percent pay-cut to make sure that we can weather. This storm is just a classy move. So Jack what's the takeaway for our buddies over at Olive Garden restaurants copying retail? It's all about Omni channel sales smackers. Throw this up on a t-shirt Omni channel. It's the ability to nimbly sell to your customers. Both online and offline simultaneously seamlessly under relentless pressure from Amazon and online commerce retailers like J. crew and target have up there Omni Channel Games. You'll walk into J. Crew. You're looking for the Ford for Khakis and Mediterranean blue. They're out of that style they idea store nearby and then boom they order them online for you. Free delivery or your obsessively searching for the perfect dog crate for. Your new puppy is a journey and find one at target and you order for curbside pickup. So you can get on the way home. The economy showing restaurants that they must have this type of online. Offline flexibility nimbly jump from in-person to in restaurant to online to take out to deliver and remember when you're here for our second story Lear Corp. Just publish their plan for turning factories back on their thinking about the post corona economy economy now snappers. We've gone over how Google just published. Its Kobe nineteen mobility report. You mentioned that Tesla publish video for how it's making ventilator and our buddy timmy just published the Chico's mad twenty eighteen so more on social media incomes lear. They just published yesterday a guide for how to operate a factory safely amid this public health crisis now snack. Because you may not have heard of lear. But Lear is the proud. Southfield Michigan based seed company founded in one thousand nine hundred eighteen in Detroit. You heard of big oil. Yep you heard a big beer. No more lear is big seat. We're talking twenty billion dollars a year and seat sales for this company or a Klein. Lumbar support memory adjusted heated seats. Whatever you get I can get it for you. What do we have to get? You see Mr Cramer though. Lear has an unbelievable company slogan. It's not just a seat. It's your personal docking station. Nikolai back in his seat. Their words not ours. No joke real thing. Leers worth four point seven billion dollars. It's a publicly traded company AKA. It's worth about half of a lift. Which is highly ironic because the most touched part of any lift. Experience is probably a lear product. Now there's a huge problem here. Car COMPANIES AREN'T MAKING CARS RIGHT NOW. Which means they don't need to buy seats from Lear so decided since it's not making seat it's going to take its best brightest strongest minds and put the money very specific project. Safe work playbook it's what they published. Yesterday it's an interactive PDF and. Here's the thing if GM or for our use it which are both customers of lear. Yes lear will benefit because GM Ferrari. We'll get back to work quicker now. Snacker Jack and I will tweet this out from at Teaboy Jack and Nick of New York. We want you to see this. If you like operations you need to see this thing. It's fifty one pages. It's an interactive. Pdf INTERACTIVE PDF is but lear's bragging about it sounds exciting. It sounds thrilling. This is a good way to spend a fourteen hours. You're not doing anything with number one key point of the five points that they list the pandemic response team so this fifty one page document is designed for managers who are thinking about opening up their factory. They've got a wonderfully simple five page protocol the first suggestion a pandemic response basically assigned five different leads from disinfecting lead to an isolation. Doesn't sound like you WanNa be a lead. The second key part is cleaning and disinfection procedures. They literally have a list of things that you need to clean. And how often for example vending machines? They need to be cleaned at least once daily. A lot of touch it goes on with the third key is staggering shifts and lunch. Break if you have a factory with two hundred workers. Lear has a scheduled to show how to make those workers. Avoid each other as much as possible hanging out Bob. You may not be having lunch with Bob Anytime soon. The fourth key is onsite health screenings the guy standing next to you on the assembly line. If he's coughing they got a whole flow chart to basically take that symptom and figure out if it's a real disease and then fifth protocols for isolating employees who become sick at work. Okay you designate an isolation room to keep that person isolated Bob until you figure out what Bob Status Booze or the five keys by the way we should point out. They've got a kind of hilarious waiver to kick things off if you want to read all five so even look at this. Pdf online you have to click except basically this insurance waivers. That lear isn't responsible. If you open up your factory and somebody gets sick even if you're not gonNA use these five. It's still great publicity for lear. They really hope that people start describing the way to reopening factor. They wanted to make it happen. It's Kinda like fetch. I don't think it's going to become a verb so jack. What's the takeaway for our buddies over at lear? Businesses must start planning their return to normalcy right now. Smackers will probably have phased in economic restart. And that's the kind that all the CEO's are talking about Larry cudlow. The president's economic adviser said yesterday that the economy will begin reopening within four to eight weeks now manufacturing companies. They can't do work from home because one hundred percent of their stuff is really intense machinery. No so manufacturing companies need to look at this roadmap right now and get ready for normalcy. Lear is the most profound roadmap. We've seen snappers if you're on a snack challenge run right now. Gelula HALFWAY YOU MAY WANNA turn around for our third and final story. Uber Has Launched Work Hub Aka. The new job board for UBER DRIVERS TO DO Other Work Aka the GIG economy is linked income at. Your Reid Hoffman Nick when the environment or the climate changes you need to adapt Taino. You're talking about everybody Chuck Charlie. Charlie search chuck. Darwin is impressed by Uber's adaptability to the new corona economy climate Travis County basically just evolved a new limb over there. Uber's core business rides is a public health risk because of Cova. Nineteen thousand acres. Have you are offering right now? That is arguably illegal. Unless you're like a nurse going to the grocery store to get something super central whiskies case. Thank you for everything you're doing right now. That is critic. That's Uber is pivoting. It's APP from a marketplace for rides. Yeah we marketplace for GIG. Jobs. Very important enter workup. We're calling it. The GIG economy is linked now. Uber's biggest asset right now is basically. It's army of GIG workers. That have the UBER APP downloaded whether or not they're actually driving. I don't know how many there are but I assume millions of millions of millions of gig worker and we're talking about an army that is available cleared background checks at has payroll already set up the UBERS. There is work for these people. Just not as Uber Drivers so Uber's taking initiative to connect them with other non-driving gigs Zuber's actually got some gigs. For these workers. Such as Uber eats which is food. Delivery we're freight truck drive or UBER WORKS. Which is like temp work from catering events to meal? Prep they are getting that done but the new thing in the UBER APP that we've never seen before is non uber work knackers. Get this if you're using uber. App is a driver. You can now get jobs at grocery stores or dominos or Walgreens or Fedex where they posted Gig job now. Uber IS NOT MAKING MONEY FROM THIS AKA. They're not taking some finders fee for successfully placing you at that but if we know are not making money on something hasn't stopped them before. So Jack what's the takeaway for our buddies over Uber? This could make uber the GIG APP to rule them all. If jobs are listing on the UBER APP then Uber stays relevant to drivers. Even if there are no driving could get new workers to come to the APP during this corona since there's so many diverse types of work there and then over works uber freight could end up seeing more accelerated adoption in this economy. And in the future this new work feature. They could monetize it by taking that finders fee which they said they're not taking current linked in for Gig were could become Uber's actual profit making puppy since it's still very much not profitable hashtag adjusted profit. You know talking about Jack and you stop decanting that Brunello over there and a whip up that takeaways four is already. We didn't serve Brunell Guide net. You'd love to the Jake a trick question. The Olive Garden is in trouble. Having closed one hundred percent of its dining rooms in mid March but takeout sales have more than doubled but it needs to up its Omni Channel. Dina game our second story. Lear is the king of car seats so nice but it's also showing off its factory operations. Expertise. It's show in the economy how to safely turn factories back on which we should start doing yesterday. Third of Violence Uber's core business rides. It's either a serious health risk or downright illegal and it could become the GIG APP to rule them all with the new jobs report now time for our snack that today this one sent in by a legendary snacker Nikko. Do Straight at Alexandria Minnesota. He started snacking thanks to his sister-in-law Claudio from Lima Peru. Nick manages to pull off a snacks. Challenge run every episode including in the face of ridiculous. Great Lakes wins. He pointed out a great snack fact like last week. But we're just finally getting into it. Now it's a little late April. Fourth was the birthday of two great tech companies. Microsoft and Alibaba. Alibaba would've been turning a very nice very clean. Twenty one microsoft would have been turning an ancient forty five years old on April. Four twenty twenty. Yes another fun fact. Microsoft was born in New Mexico. Didn't see that we're here to dry. Heat amazing place mic. Thank you for the snack. Fact One last thing before we go if you're interested in trying out a new APP to listen to this podcast. Checkout listen APP it just launched by our Buddy Paul. It's actually fascinating you can go. Listen episodes and then click on the microphone to record comments. That then become comments with other smackers in the episode. For instance you can ask the question. Did I just hear a squeaky toy? Is that Jack's new puppy. And why does Jackie talking about the puppy during the podcast and we will respond? Yes yes it was the poppy again. That's the listen APP Jack. Fantastic teaboy pod. Let's do this tomorrow. The Robin Hood Snacks podcast. You just heard reflects the opinions of the host who are Associated Persons of Robinhood Financial Llc and does not reflect the views of robinhood markets inc or any of its subsidiaries or affiliates the podcast for informational purposes only and is not intended to serve as a recommendation to buy or sell any security and is not an offer sale of security. The podcast is also not a research report and is not intended to serve as the basis of any investment decision robinhood financial LLC member Finra SIPC.

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Coronavirus Arrives in Vermont

The Dave Gram Show on WDEV

1:32:35 hr | 1 year ago

Coronavirus Arrives in Vermont

"The Promo Radio Vermont. It's the Dave Graham show on. Wd It's your show about the people places and the issues that matter the most of you. Now here's your host Dave Graham. Good Morning Vermont. It is Wednesday march eleventh. Twenty twenty and We have a show that we are going to devote in large parts to Corona virus. And maybe some part to the round of primary elections that were held and six states yesterday. Joe Biden won. Four out of six It looks like Bernie Sanders. Maybe in some big trouble out there actually so we'll be talking about that in the latter hour of the program but I wanted to devote this first hour to Updating folks on where we are with the corona virus outbreak and and I wanted to bring in a couple. People who are very thoughtful on healthcare issues in Vermont to chat with us about what they're seeing and hearing out there and understanding about what folks ought to be thinking about the corona virus and Just to by virtue of an update. Here's the latest news from the Health Department is the variety has had one case that is a presumptive finding of corona virus down in in the Bennington area The Believed test results from confirmatory test. Results are still being waited from the federal Centers for Disease Control. And that's when you get the official diagnosis although The test is resulting in a in a quarantine of the patient the Vermont who've been tested and found to be negative for the covert nineteen virus. Forty so far for monitors being monitored are two hundred and twenty six for monitors who have completed monitoring our fifty two so the health department is tracking all of these statistics from around the state at health. Vermont Dot Gov Health for. That's all one word Dot Gov. You can find this information that they are putting out in updating My intention has been to try to get someone from the Vermont health department on their Dave Graham. Show here on. Wd For the last couple of days. It's a difficult task. However they tend to have their staff morning their staff meetings between about nine and eleven in the morning when we are on the air. So they're telling me they're all tied up on At this time day They tend to put out their newest information in the afternoons. So what I'm sharing with you right now is actually all has of yesterday afternoon. They did issue a new advisory saying that following new guidance from the Centers for Disease Control and prevention returning travellers whose last day in China Italy South Korea or Iran was March. Fourth or afterward should stay home and monitor their health for fourteen days after returning to the United States. Travelers returning from Japan should monitor their health for fourteen days after returning to the United States. So there we go That's the newest information from the Vermont. Department of Health and Wanted to bring in a couple of guests this morning to provide us their their reflections and thoughts and insights on all of this situation here. Dr deb Richter is both an addiction specialist Anti General Practitioner. Who has a family practice in the town of Cambridge Vermont and Has Been Very active in the pushing for universal healthcare at the State House Over the years She is still very involved in an effort to bring about universal primary care in Vermont and Dr Richter. Thanks so much for joining me in the studio this morning and Hamilton Davis is a longtime journalist and writer who has focused in through much of his career and especially in recent years on the topic of healthcare in general and Ham Called me yesterday and was telling me that he thinks that media and need to be doing a better job asking better questions about what's going on in with with this cove in nineteen outbreak and We're going to find out from him. What what his thoughts are on all of this over the course of our discussion. Ham Ham Davis. Thanks so much for joining me this morning on. Let's be here today. Are Calling. Numbers are two four four one. Seven seven seven. That's the local number here at our Waterbury. Studio the toll free number for the Dave Graham. Show here W. Dav FM and am is one eight seven seven to nine one eight two five five and I'm trying to decide for myself. I've never been in a situation like this before I you know. I don't I haven't been around since the flu epidemic of Nineteen Nineteen and So this is the first time really through the any kind of healthcare of this magnitude. I think within my lifetime and win the lifetime of most of our listeners. Out there and if not all of them Debra Richter have we ever experienced a country since nineteen nineteen anything like this before? Well I. It's it's wise to keep in mind that we do deal with the flu every single year. Where tens of thousands of Americans die And that hundreds of thousands around the world and again a lot of people ignore this threat We see you got. I see it every day where people say well. I don't get the flu. I don't get the flu shot. I don't WanNa get the flu from the flu. Shot and so a lot of people. Don't avoid doing that just proper hygiene washing. Your hands frequently Making sure that you know you're you're wiping down surfaces. Let the grocery store those sorts of things we've dealt with that however. The flu is generally a known quantity is something that we are aware of. We have some prevention and we actually have a form of the Tamil fluids of form of of some. You know curbing of some of the symptoms of the flu but not to this extent where we have an unknown quantity and what we really don't know we do know how it is transmitted we know it's in the respiratory droplets people sneezing and coughing. Who have it? We do know that We don't know for example Who the vectors are again with the flu. It's commonly children actually are the biggest factors of of the flu Is that the case. Now because we do know that young people The tendency to be either a symptomatic having no symptoms or very mild symptoms. And so they don't often see care as a result and we don't even really know much about that So this is not something we've seen in our lifetime and again because of the international travel it is spreading around the world and we can expect to see this Continue in in my view. I don't think as the president has said this is going to disappear in April It's possible that it will reduce because people are more apt to be outdoors and less crowded spaces etc But it is not something that we have seen in our lifetime in. Hamilton Davis You Have you said you had a couple of questions? You would like to ask Dr Richter here and so I'm GonNa let me kind of give the Florida you for a couple of minutes and see what's tops on your list right now. Well I I've read all national news about about the the virus and the difficulty with it and so forth but I have what I was concerned about why I called you. Dave was that I hadn't seen very much local reporting now. In point of fact there isn't much local reporting of any kind at all. I mean there's some but but not a lot and so I just had basic questions like the national news is full of Problems that they've had nationally with getting the test kits and so okay so they're a test now. This is easy for deb. And I'm so glad I didn't realize that would be here if I if I hadn't asked You I would've asked her The How you if you need a test kit to to diagnose the The disease who's got the test kits. You'd do primary care. Docs in Vermont. Have the test kits. Do Hospitals have the test kits? Do Emergency Rooms have the test kits? Are they using the test now? You've said I heard you say today David. The health department has said that they've tested forty people The thing is that in the once the disease really gets going it really is comes in on slowly apparently but it can ramp up really fast. I assume it can get exponential in its rate of increase. What are the We prepared for that. I have no idea I mean. How many kids do you need can you? Can you get? I'd ask them. Can you figure out could you? You're a primary care doc. You don't have any test kits. Well we have the again. We have swabs that we can use with the problem. Icu sort of the criteria for the testing itself. has been somewhat limited. There have been Again people who if you look in other countries for example Germany is a good example where they widely tested because again to contain this virus. The important thing is to identify early and isolate people so if you have someone even with mild cold symptoms and other countries testing everyone. Hundreds of thousands of people in in other countries are being tested we have had a very limited testing and a lot of it had to do with the initial testing from the CDC was Aronie US and again some of this has to do with cutbacks in funding over the last ten years or so That the testing that they used was actually In error so there was a delay there and any delay in this is a problem. I want to interrupt for just a moment because I I don't to ignore our our listeners. Calling in and we have had stewart on the line from Worcester here for a few minutes. Let me let me bring in Stuart if I could Good Morning Stewart. Good Morning I have a question you know. We've been hearing a lot about you. Know the the effect of this virus on The general population I'm wondering about those folks that are highly at risk that are older may have as matic conditions or lung problems Most of those people have an emergency or crisis plan On file with their doctor. Would you recommend Dr Rick Richter. Would you recommend just having your Crisis DRUGS ON HAND. For when this phys- flu arrives I understand the crisis. Drugs won't won't cure the flu. But it's the kind of thing you would would use If you've got the general flu should should. We have on hand. I think people should should have certainly emergency supplies of food and water and things just in the event that they'd have to isolate for two week period. That would make a lot of sense. I also don't want people to panic in the sense that you know that they start according again a lot of people in Parral. Terrell and hoarding food face masks etc. But I think in terms of Cold medicines that sort of thing. Yes what Tylenol Motrin depending on but I think the Important thing for people over the age of sixty myself included would be to if you go into any kind of public space like a grocery store that you wiped down the cart that you Wipe down your hands before and after being in any kind of a public place that she will void touching your face That you wash your hands once an hour for at least twenty seconds with soap and water Those sorts of things are much more important to help. Prevent this remember This has to be touching mucous membranes. Such as the I the nose and the mouth in order to be In ingested into your body so so sort of commonsense measures I would have I would say a seniors at people should avoid any unnecessary travel If you know if your grandchildren are sick. It's probably a good idea not to have them visit So again as far as having those sorts of things. Yes you need your prescription medications for sure and and having an extra supply of those is not an unwise decision But I I'm actually again much more concerned. Also with with folks in crowded circumstances for example People in presence and people in nursing homes. Those we need extra precautions so if your parent is in a home it probably wise not to visit So those sorts of commonsense measures are. I'd also advise people to go to the health department website. There's a ton of information Listed there so health Vermont Dot Gov. There's also permission at the. Cdc that's the Center for Disease Control Dot Gov and if you look at it the page on Cova nineteen or the corona virus is really pops up the minute you you go to the CDC. So I think those are things that they can give you. I'm not a public health expert. I WanNa make that clear on a primary care doctor But that I think those are the sort of commonsense things and also much more information that you can get those two websites. What will thank you? Thank you for those comments. I am well read on this subject and I do understand The necessity for prevention I guess I'm asking Because the CDC recommended you know stocking up on your maintenance meds For people with chronic conditions. You know I'm wondering if it's wise to have those crisis drugs on hand that you would use if you got into you know a serious regular example Stewart of a crisis are we talking about an inhaler and and asthma attack. Or what are we talking about? Exactly what we're talking about Deep Lung congestion of things like Pregnant Zone. Zithromax to prevent pneumonia right. And and so I. I would say Stewart. It's important for you to contact your primary care provider under those circumstances if you get to the point where you have shortness of breath from this Illness you're in deep trouble at that point and that's really where you need to seek help and not again is really why. I'm concerned about this virus. I think it's taught us a lot because the things you're bringing up It's it's really a great demonstration as to why we really need to care about people having access to care Forty percent of reminders have insurance so inadequate. A major illness would cause bankruptcy. Those people are hesitant to even use their insurance and call their doctor or visit their their primary care provider But if you're to the point where you're short of breath That is where you're in trouble with this virus. This is really A problem so a fever dry cough. Those are sort of the initial symptoms. But if you get to the point where you're shorted breath. Your lips are turning blue. You're severely short of breath. That's really the point where you need to seek help Most likely actually at a hospital. That's that's very helpful. Thank you for those specific comments. I have just one other question if we can early on in the game One of the folks from the CDC predicted seventy percent of of the world's population or the US would contract contract this disease And today we've heard from Germany where they're predicting the same number. It sort of seems like it's inevitable. That many of us are going to run into this do you. Do you have any comments on those figures? I again as I said. I'm not a public health expert. Would I would lean towards taking word of someone from the Center for Disease Control Rather than than Mike Predictions. I do think that this is going to become more widespread and again identifying the disease early and isolating the people who have it. is fundamental. I think we will see some more school closures which would be probably appropriate And avoiding public places is also a very good idea. You'RE GONNA jump. Thank you for the call. It's some excellent questions. Let's go to Robyn Mafia. Good Morning Rob. Yes so deterred earlier advising against unnecessary travel and I just. I have a moral dilemma here. I'm traveling to Norway next week to go. See my sister and I just like some clarity on. What's what's What's the best thing I can do to help him? This global crisis you raise questions. Should you skip the trip? Sounds like that's yes. Yes Yeah should rob skip the trip debris say how old are you? Rub Thirty three Right and do you have any health problems. No it's probably safe for you to travel but with the understanding that you need to be incredibly careful about touching your face. that You need to be very very careful about washing down surfaces having a hand sanitizer with you And using that at least once an hour if you don't shake hands with people It really it's if you were for example carrying the virus because you're young and sometimes again young people don't want don't exhibit the symptoms of it It would depend on the people that you're going to see at the other end. Would you be carrying the virus to a person WHO's Ninety years old who has Alum problem or Someone you know even younger with a lung problem That might be the bigger dangerous. Not so much you but Are you carrying it so it would be really important to Continue to be mindful of washing your hands and that is really one of the most effective things that people can do and soap is very cheap and it's also still available in the stores on like hand sanitizer so I would say Washing your hands very frequently and again. The recommendation is once an hour Again just to keep from because we touch surfaces all the time. We don't really know how long the virus will live on surfaces so that's another issue And be mindful of that so it's probably safe that is not one of the countries that has been Considered but I would keep up with the. Cdc They have a a travel alert Where they are Giving more recommendations and it really depends on how many people in that country have been There's three levels of travel and I believe nor would probably be One that would be safer so I it again But being mindful of all of those public health measures much. Okay thanks for the call. Appreciate Ham Davis. You're saying that I mean you as a really interesting point a moment ago on the break where you're talking about this. Some of the figures indicate that air predictions from CD indicate that the We ended up with seventy percent of the population of the United States Actually contracting the disease I don't know whether that means that includes you know all the people who are GonNa get. It never noticed their symptoms Or all the people who are going to get in and actually get acutely ill in some manner or another These definitions really matter here. But I wonder seven seventy percent of Vermont. Population is about four hundred thousand people. And you're somebody who follows the healthcare system here on a systematic basis In your writing and reporting we don't have anything like four hundred thousand hospital beds in Vermont. Do we know. And I when I when I use the seventy to seventy percent number. I think the that number is the PEOP- The number of people who might be seen as necessary to be tested I don't know what the yield rate so to speak is that I have no idea what what that is And that probably varies. Pretty pretty widely in a very dependent on the target population. Kids are not getting this. Young people are pretty much. Don't have to worry that if this if they have lung problems. Of course I do but the main problem is elderly people but I just think that we haven't seen I just haven't seen enough data from Vermont. The I heard a rumor the other day that Byu. Vm has fifty thousand test kits. I don't and and DEB. We talked a little bit with them. About what a test kit is A. I'm I'm I'm not certain why you should need a test kit okay. The you can have a swab I can. I'm not sure what's in a test kit and there's a lot of. There's a huge fighting. It's all over the New York Times was in there yesterday. And it's in there today. Which is peep. Cdc has one view. About what the test kit needs to be. The Food and Drug Administration has another view. They argue about. What's in the test kit? They argue about which kind of lab can take the test and test the swabs or whatever they are and so my question simply is if you're in Veron today if you're in Brattleboro or island pond or Saint Albans or Brattleboro. If you if you start worrying about this can you get tested? I mean where do you go? Do you go to your primary care. The primary deb says she doesn't have any test kits now. No no not true. I'm saying that we have the capability to test people. The test is not done in our office. Much like for example we we test for Strep in our office. We have that is not something. It's not like you can have rapid strep test a rapid test for the covert virus that however we have the capacity to test people but they have to meet certain criteria. We'll give it to test but the test kits then you think critical to fact of a kit well again. I I'm not privy to the I haven't seen these these test kits but the point is we send I could do a throat culture on you and send it off to a lab and get the results of that throat culture so I don't have a throat culture test. Let's let's talk more about throat. Cultures and test kits after the break here for some bottom of the hour. Cbs News on the day. Graham show here on WWL. Fm and am as the winter rolls on were on sale upstairs. Worn store all full. Winter clothing is twenty twenty five percent off cozy tops comfy bottoms warm coats and jackets for men and women. Cool promise smart will save the duck car trolley underwear nita hat. We have skida shoot us. Popular and more palms and beanies Galore and a large selection of socks from fun to functional blue. Cue to Dr Tell. Spring clothing is arriving so come on down the best one. Stop shopping in Vermont. The almost world-famous Warren store mainstream born village. It's the day Graham show on. Wbz FM am. We're back in my guest there Dr Deb Richter. She's a primary care physician here in Vermont as well as an addiction specialist Ham Davis is A longtime writer on healthcare issues. We're talking about the cove nineteen virus which is The as Just gigantic healthcare healthcare that to be rippling through the State information. Of course Always travels faster. Even I think than we hope it travels faster than this disease does but And so the question then becomes. Solid is the information and do people need to be How how scared. We all need to be our. We all be making sure that our our wheels are up to date What we think about this Deb Richter D- are should there. There's a question I think for anybody over sixty. Shouldn't you be making sure your will is up to date right now? There's no doubt that people over sixty Have a higher risk of dying from this. Let's keep in mind by the way that eighty percent of people do okay that they either as symptomatic no symptoms or Very few symptoms a resolves and in about ten to fourteen days But those again over sixty do and especially those with health problems and even younger people with Health. Problems have a higher death rate. There's that's absolutely true Avoiding unnecessary travel good hand hygiene all. Those things are important So I think if an and not worrying about tests kids what we really need to do is if you have symptoms for example. A fever a dry cough or coughing general or shortness of breath. You need to contact your your primary care provider. If you don't have one you should contact your emergency room You can contact the health department. These are places where at least you can go to start the ball rolling in terms of what you should do next. And then the primary care provider will decide whether you need testing or not a lot of times. This is not the common cold. This is A lot of people are worried when they have a sniffle that are. They've sneezed. That they they all of a sudden Kovin. I don't want people to panic in the sense that that is symptom of that disease. It's not So I think the other thing though but I think is important In terms of what we do as a state it's important for us to recognize again that our lack of a system a healthcare system that truly used for everyone where people do not hesitate to go to the doctor. If they're ill Is something that we need to address. I think the governor needs to ask the legislature in an emergency To allocate funds for people if their children are sick or if they're sick that they stay home from work we don't want people Working in a restaurant or a nursing home or some other capacity who may not have health insurance or has terrible health insurance or afraid to use to. We need those folks to stay home so we need emergency funding for that. We need emergency funding for people to not hesitate to get To go to their primary care or get tested and when people have co pays and deductibles that they have to pay those things should be waived I think we also need to shore up or primary care offices in terms of reimbursing them for expenses where when people can't pay their bills for this testing and treatment for this particular virus so. I think those are things that We need to take into consideration. But if you're worried you call your primary care and and go from there the Let's let's talk a moment and then I want to bring in Ham Davis on these questions too about the overall sort of public health approach. And you know you're you're a big advocate of these days universal primary care Deb Richard even absent the Kobe. Nineteen we've talked about that on this program before and You know we talk about these various social programs and one that occurred to me over the weekend. Of course there's the recent dust up under the golden dome or in my ear on paid family leave in Vermont and the idea there being that In employees could get actually paid while taking time off from work perfectly healthy him or herself but to care for say a newborn child in the house or to Care for an elderly Elderly FAMILY MEMBER. Who might need daily trips to To GET CHEMO. Or something and Meanwhile there's this giant Swath Vermont. Population in my suspicion is growing. I haven't actually seen figures on this but I just anecdotally from the people. I know I sort of sense that there are many many more people out there. Who are they you know they? They don't have blue cross variety provided by their employer anymore because we're living in a GIG economy now and if you're if you're you know half your job is playing guitar on the weekends and in bars and the other half your job is driving. Uber Where do you get your health insurance? You don't Where do you get your paid time off? You know the idea that employers give people you know twelve or whatever days a year to go just go home and be sick That's that's not happening thing anywhere near as much as it used to So where are we on? I mean how do people actually continue to pay their bills of their suddenly told? Oh you gotta take two weeks at home. You're not going to be working. You'RE NOT GONNA be making the tips you normally rely on for your rent. Well that's why I believe that. The governor should actually the legislature to to come up with emergency funding for the things. At least at least getting through this virus so that people will not hesitate to stay home if they are ill. And they're they're they're under quarantine and And that they will not hesitate to seek medical care. Should they have serious symptoms or symptoms of this Cova Virus So those are things that could be done in the immediate sense but this you know the only so-called silver lining that we could maybe see from. This is the fact that this is a demonstration of why we really need to care about other people having access to healthcare and paid sick leave. This is a really good demonstration of that and I think you know when we think that. Oh it doesn't matter that that other guy over there has diabetes and doesn't have any healthcare coverage That may be just a meaning that he will die This that if that person doesn't get care I might die And I think that's something that that again. If it's a silver lining at least Puts THAT OUT IN FOREFRONT. So people need to understand that this does affect them that other people's health and ill health does affect them as well. Let me let me put this little ethical dilemma if I could to Hamilton Davis Hamilton Davis Let's say a younger relative of yours comes to you. You know a grandchild. You're you're in your early eighties. I think I understand that right. Yes okay So you can imagine you might have been the target. Okay I I can imagine you That's why I'm trying not to cough at you. So just a F- why the I can imagine that You know a if you had a grandchild grandchild in in his or her twenty S. Who came to you and and said Hey GRANDPA I've I've been feeling lousy lately and I had this cough but you know I can't take time off from work because if I take time off from work I just don't make any money. I don't have sick days at work and And if I don't make any money I can't make my car payment. I can't you know outtake groceries in the House and at or pay the rent What do you say to that person? Well actually that's not a theoretical Dave. I have seven grandchildren. They're on the twenty s The it's just it's just hard to every family would have to be would have to be would be different. You would If you had a big if you had a big family and extended family and some of them were fairly well off than you would be able to. Just help them out and that and that's with my grandchildren that's what I would do That doesn't really solve the problem that deb sets out though because the fact that I might be able to help my grandchildren doesn't mean that somebody else could help. There's and saw you know I I I I agree that. That's that's a very difficult problem and I think one of the things I haven't we haven't really thought through. I think in Vermont and I've known what I'm curious. What view is in this? I think that the it's one thing to say okay. Here's how you deal with a case of his his son of trajectory or a sketch of how you might deal with a case of the flu and how Dan and deb is going to be at the in in the trenches here on the front trenches on that kind of stuff. Because she's a primary care. Doc and the Primary Care Doc community is going to have to be the front end of this whole system You know my question is my question is twofold one is and I'd be curious about what depth thinks about this one is. I'd like to I PEOPLE DOC. D- people don't talk very much about what they would actually do. Suppose an I get it. I got it okay in fact when I drove down here this morning. Dave the There are big highway signs. You know like they'll be a big huge electric sign on on on. I eighty nine. That says is a smash up ahead or there's going to be. A huge storm is a giant sign. Every about every twenty miles on the interstate today that says Cova nineteen is air and so if it really if that's true then the relatively small numbers one case actual case confirmed forty cases that you've you've heard about the got tested Deb is says she's ready to you know that if somebody comes in she's going to be able take the swab she's going to be able to send out the test. I just don't have any idea whether we already for not seventy percent but we are we are. I don't think we're ready for thirty. Forty thousand people I mean I just think we're I just don't believe that we've got seven hundred primary care. Docs in Vermont about that. If that's a ballpark figure that always up and down. Of course the this okay. The seven hundred of them and And and here comes forty fifty sixty thousand people. We ready for that at this. I'm just I I just don't believe it debris your your primary care documenting the c forty seven seventy thousand. I don't think that we will be able to handle that. Amount I I do think we're going to end up. You know if we get to the point where we're seeing more and more and more cases we're GONNA see more school closures again. We end up with the problem. What do parents to when they have to stay home with their kids? Even if they're not sick the schools closed it's closed for several weeks And even several months maybe 'til the end of the year colleges we now know. I believe Middlebury College is going to work remotely. They're not having any classes We're GONNA see more and more of that. Those are the things that are necessary You know sort of more on the more positive side. I mean Germany's tested Thousands tens of thousands of people. They found a thousand positive. They've only had two deaths. One of the reasons again is they've identified early and isolated. I you know `isolation self quarantine. All those things are essential to containing this in China. They've managed to contain it Because they have Stopped any kind of public major public events in close schools those sorts of things. We're going to have to consider doing those things. Will we have enough? Icu beds should we see tens of thousands? No we won't and then we're dealing with a another issue will be dealing with deciding who gets those beds and who doesn't That will be another question and I can't answer that. I really think that's something that we need to think ahead. I think we need to have A people thinking ahead about what we do should those tens of thousands present themselves And prepare for that are are we. I mean I've seen in other parts of the world even other parts of the country. Some hospitals I think in California they were erecting tents outside the hospital the main hospital building to screen patients coming in to be checked for covert nineteen Who's got the where's the stockpile of tencent. Vermont to be set up outside of our hospitals. Well I don't know I mean that's that's something that you know. Massive screening would actually help tremendously for us to contain this as I said in Germany. That's what they've done and they've only had two deaths out of a thousand people so That's really you know one thing we've learned in this virus is to is to identify early and isolate. These are the things that are are fundamental and good hand hygiene touching your face all those things that we already do know. We don't know a lot about again the vectors are. Is this really mostly children. We don't really even know at that point. We we still have a lot more research to do. Two four four one seven seven seven is the local number here in Waterbury one. Eight seven seven to nine one eight two five five if you'd like to check in with us here at Wd FM and am and speak with our two guests. Dr deb Richter and Writer Hamilton Davis. They have been talking here about the covert nineteen virus in what it means for for monitors. So what we should be thinking about out there We do have a listener on the line. Good Morning Nils from Duxbury call my comments pretty straightforward Today in the past ten minutes is mentioned. Two numbers one with seventy percent It's fifty thousand. Fifty thousand was said to paraphrase. Who had fifty thousand kits? Seventy thousand seventy percent number was similar comment somewhere. He's ever heard that that many people might end up with and then at the end of the sentence he said well. Maybe that was number of you would have to test my comment. Is that as much information as we have out here now. You don't know what your numbers are not mentioned. Don't don't begin to have people thinking about stuff it's based on a rumor. Be Conjecture See. I'm not sure but I hurt that. Tunisian seems failure responsible. Pardon me but one is going to call you on it. I'M GONNA Well they everybody. Everybody wants to be safe. But you don't need Postulating and uncertain Sherline uncertain numbers around. If I misheard you sir. Particle her okay. Thank you for the call. Nils I just due to to be clear here. I think our number of seventy percent of the population likely contracting this I I'm a little hazy on this but I believe that we had to to Sources of that information one was a that was. There was a estimate from Germany that that was going to be the case with population. There the otherwise. That wasn't. It's the case. Ham Davis that there was or was it. W You said there was a CDC officials saying this is likely happening. United States I again I'm not familiar with that Number and I agree with nils. I think we don't want You know e e numbers bantered about and these are also estimates. I think you know what we need to do is prepare. Should we get tens of thousands of people that are that contract this? We need to prepare with proper public health measures. I agree with knows that we need to make sure that we. We don't make people panic about test kits and that sort of thing You know again. We're using the common sense measures public health measures that I think we need to be Responsible Okay now ham. Did you have anything I think there's a lot of things going on here. I I don't. I don't agree with nels. Actually I think that and I functioned from a background not of Medicine. Deb's doctrine I'm but I'm basically a journalist and the fast in in from a journalistic perspective. I think the right thing to do is find out as much reliable information as you can. The seventy percent fager on on the people that might need to be tested as out of the New York Times. Now you can say that the New York Times should say nothing. I don't agree with that. But like ask deb. Another question because then. I think hasn't really been dealt with it all that I don't see it anywhere. And that is the The the sort of the tr- the trajectory of this. What is the ARC of this disease? We're getting reports That the number of cases is starting to ease off in both Korea and China. That so that is an Arkham about four months. Where you get you get the the the The disease comes in it catches hold. It stands to proliferate through the population. Lots of people get sick. Some people die and then it starts to ease off and you get you get observations That I've seen in the press that the number of people who are the number of people for example in big Chinese cities who take the subway is increasing. What that seems like what seems indicate. Certainly what's the commentators that people are right about in in in the press thing? Is that the those that that's the peak and that the peak is may have passed in China and passed in Korea. But we have. We are way we nowhere near the peak here and I'm curious whether what depth thinks about what the trajectory of this is we we know where we are roughly today she knows as much about it as anybody razz. Anybody that I know in Vermont. Okay but if we if we look ahead if we will can history. The black death in thirteen hundred went went on for years and wiped out a third of the population of Europe. But the but the but the trajectory of the Spanish flu from nineteen eighteen to the middle of nineteen nineteen when it went away with fifteen months. Is there any way so my question is? Is there any way to tell what the Ark of this disease is likely to be in this country? Are we talking about? It's going to be out. There is a big problem really. Hammering people and the economy for five years two years one year is likely to be over by Labor Day is likely to be over by is that does does the medical community and you know anything about the arc in Vermont well again. I'm not an infectious disease specialist nor a public health specialist. So I WANNA make that very clear I I think from again what I've read That one of the reasons that China was able to contain. It had to do a lot with their response to this disease by Again isolating people closing schools. Rapidly testing Again once they realized what it was about initially they could be faulted for for not letting anyone know about it But once you you know they let the the you know the word get out that this was was a potential epidemic They responded and other countries have done the same again. Other countries with national healthcare systems and paid sick leave have done better in Germany. Being being a really good shining example It's really more of our response to the disease. I'm not sure we know. I do think we'd be better equipped than we would be in one thousand nine hundred eighteen To to to respond to it. I mean one of the reasons they called it. The Spanish flu by the way was The rest of Europe refused to be public about the fact that the sickness was happening and Spain was the only country and initially. That was very open about it. So We really need to be. I think you know. Keep the public informed but not panicked And as far as how long it will last I do not know I think again to use proper public health measures and we need some emergency measures so that people will stay home if they're sick If they're told to quarantine they will do so but they won't have to have a financial penalty doing that and they will seek their primary care or or health professionals. Should they get symptoms already? You need to take a break here on the day of Grenfell. We've actually folks as the winter rolls on. We're on sale upstairs with more in store all winter clothing his twenty and twenty five percent off cozy tops comfy bottoms warm coats jackets. Men and women cooled. Promise smart will save the Duck Cari trial long underwear. Meet a hat. We have skida shoot thus poppy and more palms and beanies. Galore and a large selection of sucks from one to functional Blue Cube to Jordan. Spring clothing is arriving so come on down for the best one stop. Shopping in. Vermont Almost world-famous Warren Store Main Street. Marin village it's the Dave Ramsey show. Wd We're back and we're GONNA continue a little bit into our second hour here with my same guest because we're getting a lot of calls from listeners. We are getting into some very interesting and difficult conversation here about a very difficult topic of that of course is the code. Nineteen virus We're all trying to grapple with what it means that. It's a rival here in the world in the United States and in Vermont and we are just trying to figure it all out as we go forward here folks. I think an awful lot of people are in a range of positions as they Approach this but we're also looking at it and go on and to help me do that This morning we had Deb Richter doctor. Dr Richter is He Primary Care Physician a d. And an addiction specialist here in Vermont. Who has been very interested in pursuing universal primary care for Vermont residents and She continues into the second hour with us. Really appreciate you staying around the director and Ham Davis Writer on Healthcare Issues. Also with us and we as I mentioned. We have some more callers who've been waiting so let's get right to them Chuck for Middlesex's up next. They do believe Good Morning Chuck Morning. Good Morning I was just wondering I've been in contact The health department is not advocating at this time. Large gatherings and I can't figure out why they wouldn't limit those in the fact that we have several large shop. Hundreds of people go into a gatherings throughout the state including Turn County Essex fairgrounds and and every week. There's a big big event on there and they don't see they say I asked about it and nobody seems to really think that that's a good idea to limit those or I mean I hate to use the word shutdown but Basically that's what it is now understand. I you know yes I can choose not to go. But if a hundred people do go and there is a person from New York or Hampshire or whatever There and they get it is just gonNA spread that faster Deb Richter said earlier before the break there that that how China held it down somewhat from spreading More rapidly so I was just wondering why the health department isn't kind of monitoring this These large gatherings and putting them in. But it's a good question. Chuck I want to mention here. The there's a there is at health. Vermont Dot Gov. There is an Info page. Here in one of the links actually says. What should people planning on large gatherings in Vermont? Do and it says. At this time the health department is not recommending closure or cancellation of mass gatherings or large events. It is reasonable for older adults and persons with underlying health conditions to consider attending a mass gathering event. This guidance is subject to change based on the volving situation. So it seems as though the health department actually could change that advisory and Then you you have different stages of recommendation you go from what you think. People avoid large gatherings to all large gatherings are shut down by order of the ultimate There's a range of range of responses there as well I think it's it's a good question chuck and Debra you thoughts. Well I would definitely avoid Any kind of gathering Should you especially if you're over the age of sixty you have health problems I I would agree. I think that's probably something that will be coming soon. If we see doubling or tripling the cases over the next week or so That that will be something that will happen. Also closing schools because there is a chance that that Kids are the vectors As they are with the flu. And so what? We'll probably be seeing something something like that again. I would continue. I would I would say Dave was saying that connecting with Health Vermont Dot Gov and also the CDC dot Gov Their their latest information and check that Twice a day because it seems to be rapidly changing As far as their recommendation. Let's go to Alison Warren. Good Morning. Alice Good Morning. I have sort of an odd question. I realized or researched and found out that China Found that dogs were Carriers of the crown over a virus and they quarantined them And I'm wondering as there's been mention of this in this country as far as I've been able to find A. What do Dr Richter know of any of this or what they found and also I was wondering if dogs could be used for developing vaccine But apparently they're carriers but they don't You know you. You can't get it from the dog and cat right and I again would would sign not an infectious disease specialists nor public health specialist I again had read something to that effect to. I don't know enough about it to really comment As far as carriers. Let's keep in mind that humans are carriers of this disease people who are symptomatic. And that's again why we need to use the the common sense of hand hygiene and Isolating should we get sick and staying home if you're sick? I think it's also worth mentioning. That there have been shutdowns. Middlebury college is closed. I mean they're doing. I think they're doing classes online. I think Central School in Williston. I think is closed. I mean there's there's a lot to the health department may not be ordering anybody to do anything but individual organizations in fact taking steps even in Vermont. That's a very in very good point there. Let's go to what one last call on this topic and then I do have to shift gears here but Tim is on the line. Good Morning. Tim Yes I'd like to know how. How far the If somebody sneezes and whatnot. How long does that disease hang out on account or whatever and that kind of all if they don't know how long before they'll figure that out well first of all within your sneeze and cough can can pollute a room up to six feet so again. If you're around someone who's sick. You really ought to be standing as far away from them as possible As far as how long it leaves on surfaces I do not know I believe several hours but again I do not know With any kind of assurance to be able to say that that is why you should wash down all surfaces where you're coming contact with especially in in a public place like a grocery store with Again a sanitizer. That has at least sixty percent alcohol That's that would be something that would be a wise thing to do And and even if we know if you you know if you knew it was three hours would you touch it? Four hours later and not wash your hands. Of course you know that makes doesn't make sense so it makes sense to just continue to wash your hands and wipe down surfaces that you've touched that May Have Contaminated Alright. Well I want to thank my guests Doctor Never Richter and healthcare writer. Hamilton Davis for doing extra duty here on the day Graham show. Wd FM and am talking about this difficult topic of the Cobra virus. The two of you thank you so much for coming in this morning a few months ago. I think it was sometime last year or so. We had a visit From a gentleman named Stephanie Wolfert. Who IS A veteran mill? Us military veteran Has had a lot of experience with PTSD and has Decided to make an art form out of this and Stephan Wolford is going to be in the central Vermont area over the next couple of weeks. putting on performances of his play cry havoc as well as Participating in forums devoted to trying to help veterans who are trying to ease their lives of PTSD and and reduce the symptoms. There and Mr Wolford Just arrived in the studio in the last Fifteen or twenty seconds here so glad to see that you were able to make it in this morning. Thanks so much for joining. Thanks for having me and so I do recall. We had you on the program once before I believe the last year before the show and you Have you been bringing the show around the country since then? Yeah in fact My wife and I it converted Mercedes Sprinter van because we're on tour full-time. We traveled around the country. We've put on over one hundred thousand miles in the last two years hitting over thirty. Two States Delivering not only CRA HAVOC PERFORMANCE BUT DECREE OUR PROGRAM. De Crude which is a treatment program for veterans And so So it's really a two pronged approach here with which you return to central remind here and I know that you are One of the one of the sort of touch spots for you here is Norwich University. Of course a big military presence at the nation's oldest private military college there in Northfield Vermont and So tell us Let's see I. I saw his schedule. Indicating you have a couple of upcoming performances including here in Waterbury at the Great Hall Cultural Centers in achieving. Get a little line up going here. says your cry havoc performances. Stephan Woollard Wolford's Award winning off Broadway play which details WOLFORD's struggle with post traumatic stress and addiction and explains how theater and Shakespeare providing them with the tools to overcome these challenges. Free and open to the public with no tickets required Let's see Friday March thirteenth. That's tomorrow night folks or two nights from from today It tomorrow night. Where at Grange Hall Tomorrow? Okay tomorrow at your grains all here in Waterberg. Yes is that at seven. Pm Seven thirty. I believe I have my phone out trying to find trying to find out exactly. We just drove up. We literally drove from Texas to get here. So we've been through quite a bit anyways Yeah tomorrow night. At seven thirty Grange Hall and then we go to Norwich and the rest of the performances are around Norwich in that area both performances By me as well as veterans who will be taking the decree workshops. I see okay and So Friday evening in White River Junction says time and location to be determined to have the time and location yet At at in Dartmouth. That's my wife Dawn. Sh she knows all that time. Seven PM Durban seven. Pm on And is that going to be? We know what forum I'd have a couple of different halls down there you know. Well we'll we'll we'll I'm so I should have denied. They were at the. Va The va had to be on the open. It's really easy Norwich University is GonNa have the information on the site on the web on their website decree cry havoc shows will all the information will be on the website or they can email me directly at dawn at decrepit dot. Org Okay. Don The W. N pull up a chair. Your dodger will join us in the studio. Thanks so much for doing so. We And and as I was saying you were you visited with US last year last year. Stephan and What kind of reactions have you gotten on these performances around the country the year? You've been traveling doing this. It's been astounding The because the show isn't everyone thinks it's for veterans. But the reality is it veterans. See this show and go. Yeah that's my story or else did that part of it is. The idea was to create a bridge of understanding between the veterans and their families and the communities. Most of the information that's in the in Cra havoc even though it's my personal story We we see crafted it over a number of years with other veterans getting their stories in there as well to understand what What are our common themes that we struggle with? That's the reason. Our program is called decreased as a matter of fact that comes from the show where I say when I went into the military. I had a recruiter that helped prepare me for life in the military gave me rides Helped me prepare the paperwork? Everything I needed was I had helped for anything I needed but when I got out there was no D. critter to help. Prepare me for every aspect of life after the military health with paperwork there ride so the VA or whatever. I needed to a vso in an American legion. What have you so we decided to do that? And what we realized is well is what I was going through is what Whatever I went through my wife was also going through. My family was going through that if I had a bad day at a pet day because I was raining down upon them and this is all carried over. Because there's an As I say and in the show is wired for war but never unwired from war so now I still have that quick response to anger that hot flash to respond with right with violence. Have these these instincts in me that we're never undone so to build to go up and do the show for a community and have them then begin the dialogue afterwards with each other? That's our primary goal and or to get Connect them with services or even our own programming In the decree program to actually Begin unwavering from war. Most most veterans. Say That's my story thank you. That's the truth. Thank you thank you thank you most. Most civilians say I didn't know I just didn't I didn't know they have some Hollywood version of what it is in their head and they just didn't didn't know here's another Another group I'm wondering about the reaction to that is you know there's there's there is some And more so than there used to be kind of official. Us military Pentagon response to these issues of post traumatic stress disorder and just trying to You know the VA has programs and others are the official channels responding to what you're doing here over over all it's been extremely positive and supportive of for example now multiple. Va's around the country have been really interested not only in cry havoc. In fact there's been an entire state visas that are saying we would like cry havoc to be mandatory. Viewing for all of our staff and specially non veterans Uva's statewide. The as of wanted the degree program as well. So that shows that there is a shift we've even had Folks FROM TRADE DOC Army Trading Doctrine Command. Come and see it and agreed with our premise. That we're wired for war but never unwired from war But there's also the usual resistance and that's not just from government bodies that's from Mindset they're like like Don said. There's this idea this this Hollywood idea when in fact the the barrier biggest barriers. We have our stigma or discrimination against what we think a warrior should do when they come home because What the research shows is that. The vast majority of veterans enter the military with trauma. And that's usually childhood trauma or cultural or family trauma from their childhood. This has been throughout throughout our history. As a matter of fact we have data to show this now in fact the Va and the Department of Defense have done their own studies to the that also support this. So we're dealing with old stuff that then the military contend exacerbate which gives Explanation to why there are veterans when we look at the suicide rate and I adopted twenty two a day which is one every hour nine minutes. Someone who served this country is killed themselves. The the number's higher among non combat veterans. So that tells us something else is going on. It's not combat and it's not just military training. It's something else and we believe we know what it is. It's the childhood trauma being undiagnosed untreated. Which is why we don't pathologies it. We don't require diagnosis. We don't require a PTSD or anything of that sort. If you're a veteran in new served you come in. We're going to start helping done wire. You've okay so In in your travels around the country you have you been all over. The place said he gained from Texas. We have Florida Hawaii. Hey Texas we're going to Washington we were we Chicago we we travel fulltime doing it. So we've hit the entirety of the northeast Good Hunks of the Midwest and some of the South West as well as California as well We have decree active decree programs going New New York City Fort Worth Texas Chicago and hopefully soon in Fairbanks There there are a few others but those are the four that are really were. Were small when I say we live in a van. We're it's not a metaphor not doing Chris. Farley we literally are doing this as a grassroots organization to cut down costs bill to go into programs Correction go into communities. Teach the program so that they can continue it on their own and we just help support them to continue to grow the program. That is Pretty amazing stuff now Do you have a website? Folks WanNa we do what you're up to do. Thanks for asking ourselves is Detroit Dot Org so think of the word recruit but with the D. D. E. C. R. U. I T. Dot Org okay and amunition interesting Coinages you say Because the recruiting process I mean. Obviously they are trying to Ease the road into the military and they do it brilliantly. And and Yeah I mean. They've had a lot of practice over the decades and It would make sense that that would be a pretty smooth road. This point Excuse me the The Effort to bring people back into civilian life from the military Not as well practiced I guess as the best way to. Yeah I yeah I would think we would. This is an ancient problem. This is why one of the many reasons we use Shakespeare but it's not so Shakespeare's writing this stuff about four hundred years ago. And he's he's writing the military veteran experience perfectly. One of the best examples is Speech bio character called Lady Percy. Her husband is a combat veteran. Who's just returned home from combat? That day is leaving the next morning. She doesn't know this he does. She asks him a series of questions. Oh my good Lord wire you thus alone why Ben. Nine is upon the earth and startled so often now sits alone. She asks all of these questions and they're so perfectly describing post traumatic stress the Jonathan Shay psychologists who worked with Vietnam Veterans for over thirty years takes that speech and next to each question diagne bliss questions from the diagnostic manual pushed stress. And that's four hundred years ago. He's writing precisely the symptoms of push stress. Wow that's So this has been around for a long time. I know in the people say that at the end of World War One. They called it. Shell shock this idea that people were coming back who had probably traumatic brain injuries and and and chemical exposure symptoms and all. I mean many many similar things to where we are one hundred years later. Yes and we've done nothing to change it not really not not fully. Well I wanted to to say also one of the things that we find so encouraging in this climate going to states around the country So-called blue and so called red states Is this notion that The government is not the answer and so therefore the community must be. Now how you bring them back and they're coming back to your community so I really do want to just think Norwich University the Vermont's Arts Council Vermont Community Foundation Vermont Foundation in the community partners at White River junction. Va Medical Center and the veteran's place in Northfield for bringing us in this month and committing to their community so you guys are here pretty much the whole month of March s really the rest of the time at Norwich University. Yeah yeah well that makes sense of course. Norwich very involved in trying to help They're training people for the military and so they understand the other end of the mission as well quite Quite thoroughly so that's that's very interesting Well I you are Don Stern Kerley. Clearly a key partner in this whole year. Yes and and and Quit my job. Two years ago to enter the nonprofit. And let me just tell you? We put the Non in nonprofit so if anyone wants to go to the website and donate and help us feel already. That's that's good to know in the website once again is d crude dot org Dec are you it dot org. And the two of you. I want to thank you so much for stopping by this morning. I wish you Excellent lock in your travels around for our part of the world here as well as elsewhere and and Just keep using that the hand sanitizer well plenty of it at Grange Hall tomorrow. We actually have one now song already. We're going to take a brief break here for the bottom of the hour news here on the day Graham Show and Wd FM and am and be back very shortly folks. Stay with us as the winter rolls on on sale upstairs worn store all full. Winter clothing is twenty and twenty five percent off cozy tops comfy bottoms warm coats and jackets for men and women. Cool promise smart will save the duck car truck long underwear mead hat. We have skida shoes. Poppy and more palms and beanies Galore. And a large selection of sucks from one to functional blue cue to Dr Tom. Spring clothing is arriving. So come on down for the best one. Stop shopping in Vermont. The almost world-famous Warren store mainstream porn village. It's the Dave Ramsey show on WBZ FM and am. We are back after all this chatter about the Kobe. Nineteen Corona Virus Worries that are gripping the Nation Vermont. Certainly in the world as well we want to shift gears a little. Bit here to Talk Politics because yesterday was another key. Voting Day in the several primary states. the And Paul Hynes of seven days has been very closely following the Bernie Sanders Campaign for president which if you're sanders fan did not Get much good news last night. Paul to give us a little recap. Hey Dave Well the short story is that it was a really bad night for Senator Sanders You know he was. He basically camped out in Michigan For the several days leading up to the election really hoping that he could change their the narrative. Show that when In a kind of key midwestern battleground day He did not got blown out of the water there and You know places that should have been good for him like Idaho and in Washington. He also did do very well. He Lost Idaho So County in Washington. But it's it's Neck and neck right now which is really not good. I mean that's the state that that he won by a big majority for years ago So yeah there. There are no good sign coming out of yesterday's elections and You know what's worse is that week from yesterday There are more delegates up for grabs in the states. That are more That are better for Vita you know thinks Florida for example which has a an older population You know which has a population of immigrants who probably don't like what. Sanders a sad about Fidel Castro. Over the years. She's not gonNA stay for him. Georgia's coming up as well. Now's got a huge African American vote. He's underperformed among African Americans especially older ones are more likely to vote So the bottom line is really not looking good It is harder and harder to see any kind of realistic path to victory for him at this point. So he's He's seventy eight years old. This is pretty much the last Rodeo for him right. Well I mean I thought that after last presidential race right so But yeah I mean I it it is. It is impossible to imagine that he runs for president again after this. But that doesn't mean he's GonNa play a significant role You know going forward. I mean just imagine in a by did ministration You know him being the face. The voice the left in trying to keep Biden honest and keep them. You know from being To moderate I could see him playing very important role In such a scenario obviously assuming that Biden wins and I mean. That's another part of that right. I think the role that Sanders plays in. This general election is going to be hugely significant You know he Sanders that is Motivates Young Voters Like nobody else does and there are so many sanders supporters. Who really don't like Biden. Who are you know you know my interviews with them Say they're definitely or there are no way Sure that they're going to vote for the Democratic nominee if it's not sanders so Senators are gonna be essential to fight and winning fall. It'll be really interesting to see how they how these people deal with that right They need to be to be very careful not to look like they're pushing sanders out of the race. They need to find a way to be respectful of Sanders. Sanders supporters And then sanders are GonNa have a really hard job in front of him as well. Because I think he genuinely wants the Democratic nominee to win But he's got a lot of supporters. Who ARE GONNA see this? As a sham They're going to have conspiracy theories about you know why this happened. And he's going to have to find a way to kind of bring them along. Yeah I mean what? What is your sense is. I mean I've seen a little bit of chatter online just this morning from really released. Sanders supporters among facebook friends. And so on who are saying things like You know th. There's some thumb drives in Texas or something it sounds like our country tune or I don't know But you know that there may be maybe some skulduggery going on. It's gone on in various primaries around the country. Is there any evidence at all of that? I mean is. Is there enough there for people to grab onto say Gee Whiz You know this is another another Another theft You know I have seen evidence and I'd be highly skeptical. I mean I think the story here is pretty simple right. I mean there Bernie Sanders has not been able to Pick up you have enough both tremendous things really lame analysis but You know his theory all along was that That he could win the race with thirty to thirty five percent of the vote As long as there remained a crowded field And that theory. I think wasn't a bad one. I mean it was working. Nevada was working up until South Carolina And I think that is really amazing. And surprising and shocking that the more moderate elements of the Democratic Party manage to get their act together. And actually you know consolidate around one kid really really quickly And I think that that's it's not a conspiracy. It's that Democrats learned the lesson Learn a lesson from the Republican Twenty. Sixteen primary about what happens when you've got an insurgent candidate You know who's WHO's steadily building support And you've got a whole lot of alternatives who are not willing to You know put aside their own ambitions to stop that insurgent and so Democrats You know the other More moderate mainstream Democratic candidates learned our lesson that's why sport has consolidated around Vita. You know it's it's it's simple. I don't think it takes a conspiracy and I also think that takes away from from Senator Sanders. What he's accomplished here. I mean it's really It's amazing what he has done. This race Even if he does win And he's hugely influenced Dialogue he's You know he is very much He's transformed the progressive movement. So I don't think we should discount Why he's accomplished but I also don't think that you know Resorting to conspiracy. Mongering is is a Responsible thing to do especially in this era in which we live where A lot of You know bad actors spreading spiracy theories all the time. Enough real conspiracies out there too so that you shouldn't spread the fake ones. I guess right. I just like to put a positive spin on as much as I possibly can. Here We have a caller on line. Roger from wor's with US Good Morning Roger. Hey Good morning guys so. I'd like to ask Paul this question and see what he thinks. but basically. I'm a big Bernie supporter. I'm pretty you know I'm feeling pretty down about it I I guess looking at it. I'd like to see a one or two things happen. First thing. I I'd like to see obviously Biden basically reach out to the progressive left by doing something but Some of the stuff that he's been coming out with Is totally the opposite? And if anything he he seems to be going much for toward the Sort of never-trumper Republican gop sort of GOP light democratic party kind of mode. And if they're gonNA leave the left out in the cold like that. Then a lot of people are gonNA write in Bernie Sanders and on November third. I'd like to see the state of her mind. Right in Bernie Sanders name and send a little message the Democratic Party however if they reach out to us if they reach out to the Progressive Left and I'm not sure they will because Biden said something gave signals to the effect that he may veto Medicare for all and You know a bomb really didn't even discover climate the climate crisis issue until his sixth or seventh year in office I gotTa Tell You With the kind of policies that Biden would support who people he's cozying up to. I mean they're talking about Jamie diamond for Secretary of Treasury. Do you really think Nafta all this. Do you really think that the left is actually gonNA vote for Biden. Boy If not I would say send a message and right in Bernie For November third. And all take your comments off line. Thank you gentlemen. Ra Roger Paul what do you think of all that Roger? I'm very sorry for the outcome I you know I think. He raised some really interesting and valid points. Here that And I you know I think the onus is now on Biden To make the correct overtures to sanders supporters. You know traditionally the way things have worked in. American politics is in a primary You know Democrats attacked last and Republicans to the right to appeal to their bases And then they move toward the middle during the general election I think that I think I agree with you that that would be a pretty poor choice for Biden. Right now I think he does have to find ways to Extend an olive branch to Sanders supporters. And I think that's GonNa take some policy And let's not forget Elizabeth Warren and her supporters as well right between the two of them You know Warren still has not endorsed. Anybody They are both substantive politicians who are looking for The real policy change so You know I think right now by needs to be looking for ways to send a message to to Bernie and warring supporters that You know he will fight for certain things that they believe in. Maybe it's on Medicare for all but maybe it's climate change you know maybe it's You know Warren's anti-corruption platform those are those are things that perhaps could be easier for him to get behind And I think that That Sanders and Warren have some leverage. Right now It's sort of. I think it's an interesting question of When they have the most leverage does it make sense for sanders to kind of get what he can get now for Biden. Get out quickly. Does it make sense to kind of stay in for a little bit and Be a pain by you. Know what To try to you know get more concessions But at a certain point you know. I think that that is what those two those two candidates will want to get Then I'll be really interested to see how they kind of do that dance. Let me let me try out. Sort of the the other kind of a devil's advocate role here. To some extent and and and push back a little bit on on Roger and on the an-and the Sanders supporters You know in two thousand sixteen. I I remember I I was. I still had know. Sorta straight reporter job. I wasn't able to express opinions like a radio talk. Show host back there but I I was telling close friends and family yet. I wasn't unleashed. Yeah I I was I was telling close friends and family. I A lot of whom were disappointed to see this in treatment that Sanders Garden. And we're not thrilled about Hillary Clinton and And you know and I I was saying I remember saying repeatedly to people You know this isn't really about Hillary. Clinton or Donald Trump. This is about the Supreme Court and this is about the overall direction of government You know the president after all in many ways really is just a figurehead. And you know what matters is And and we've seen this in spades. We've seen that. What matters on immigration policy even more than Donald Trump may be Stephen Miller and what matters on environmental policy? Or what matters on education policies. Betsy Devos you know and and And and so you got to kind of really keep in mind not just this the individual and whether you like Hillary Clinton's personality your you think Joe Joe Joe Biden has all his marbles or whatever you know you have to say. What kind of team are they going to bring in? What kind of court appointments are GonNa? Are They GonNa make you know what what sort of overall direction for the country is going to be happening here and You know for for for Bernie Bernie Sanders supported. Tell me now. They're thinking about sitting home in November after watching the first four years of Donald Trump. I to me that just strikes me as really crazy. Frankly well you know and I I am not as unleashed you. I'm not a radio talk. Show host quite yet but You know I would say that another way to look at it as if you're Bernie Sanders supporter Maybe it's worth listening to what Bernie. Sanders says what. He says. Literally every time he delivers the speech is that it's Donald Trump has to be defeated right and Democrats must co laugh around the Democratic nominee. Whether or not it's Bernie Sanders. That is what sanders himself has been consistently arguing for last year And I think you know that. Senator makes an argument because he was pragmatic and he knows that You know if you believe in the things that Bernie Sanders believes then. You're going to be lot better off under any democratic administration you are under Donald Trump and so I I find it quizzical. I mean I I totally understand why people like Roger You know are are so upset about this. Outcome today would consider You know not voting for Democratic nominee but That appears to be countered to what centers itself Thinks is the pragmatic thing to do. So you know I don't know well but at the same time Argue with myself a little bit here Sanders has through his rhetoric Raised questions about the legitimacy of the democratic establishment. And you know he has not he's not a conspiracy monger But some of his Surrogates have engaged in that kind of rhetoric And certainly during two thousand sixteen campaign his campaign Quite clearly sort of realized that don't for community as a man who you know which Which was trying to steal the nomination from so There is I think some he has a responsibility. Now to make the case whose own supporters Why they now should support the establishment right He's got kind of turn that around and I think he's GonNa do that. I think. That's you know Sanders is pragmatic. I'd say it all the time like he's not you know maybe he has You know maybe some people think his politics are a radical but his approach to politics is really not that radical. He wants to get what he can get To advance his elites. Do the Biden win win. Four out of the six primary and caucus last night. Paul yes. He won four out of six and Verney one one North Dakota and then the six Washington is outstanding Still be founded or whatever. Yeah okay a couple of callers online Gene from Barry. Good Morning Gene. Good Morning I think Bernie's sounds a lot. Like trump is going to do wonders for any gets in there and do nothing. I think Vine is more qualified. Okay that's a in my opinion. I think he's more qualified. Because Bernie sounds to me like a lot like trump dead when trump campaign the first time? That's an interesting perspective. What do you? What's the biggest similarity between between Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump? Would you say gene while to me? of course he's going to as a as a Democrat he's not a Democrat anyway but I don't know he he he's He sounds to me like in more for trump but he don't want to admit it. Well I don't know about that but we'll we'll see here I. It looks like Biden is Is On track and Thank you for the call. Jean I appreciate it. Let's go. Let's go to Robert and Bristol. Good Morning Robert. Hi thanks for taking my call. I I am an avid Birdie fan but I would like to stress the fact that all Bernie's and all progressives need to vote With the Democratic Party no matter who it is that comes out But the party itself needs to realize that without progresses in the future is not going to win without the progressive support. The Party needs to at least move in that direction And the current movies that was another caller brought up that they were talking about for the cabinet. That's not moving at all and I know Really good idea. I think right now during this virus would be to have a medicare for all anyway. That's just the point. I wanted to make all right. Thanks Call Robert Appreciate it. Paul what do you what do you think? Do you think that the Do you think that the Democrats are are kind of putting off a final reckoning here? I mean imagine. Let's let's let's assume that that that that Biden gets the nomination and they take this kind of modern standard bearer to the to election day And the the Democrats really kind continue on their pattern that they've had now for for a long time ever since Bill Clinton really this sort of triangulation where they try to scoop up as much of the center as they can. Is that a workable thing or are they still need to work at work? This out at some point so I think Robert is is totally right and I think that one of the dynamic here in that people and Kohl's really bear this out. A lot of people are voting super strategically this time around. And because they're they despise trump They're terrified oh second trump term and so they are putting aside their own more liberal beliefs in order to for someone who gave you rightly or wrongly is more electable right But I think it is quite clear that the Democratic Party is moving or at least has moved to the left And this is especially true generation. -Ly you know. I don't know what the exact cutoff by anyone. Thirty or under forty router. is far more progressive Anyone in the in the Democratic Party say far more progressive Than older generations are And that's where Bernie has been getting a lot of his support. Those people you know the problems. We're pretty right now is that those people aren't turning out in great numbers But they will in future years that you know they are going to get older. They're going to become more reliable voters. Um and it's quite possible. They'll stay as progressive as they are right now and so I think it. I think it's absolutely true. The Democratic Party is putting off A bit of a reckoning and You know fine nominate Biden right now but I think the future There will be a progressive standard bearer for the party And I also think you know the the the point that of of Even floating the possibility of Jamie diamond being the treasury secretary. is like just insane from electoral perspective. Right like that is not the way that you greg in Progressive supporters. It's not it's not that is not the future of the Democratic Party So again you know Biden is going to have to do that Very delicate dance He is More moderate than than sanders. But just just another point on that concern I'm rambling a bit now but Biden is really actually more slightly more. Liberal Than Obama was when Obama ran in two thousand eight and I think you know we because this has been this this primary has been so dominated by progressive ideas thanks to sanders. It appears that You know this shift to divide Ms Really Big Move to the right but but actually it's not so much you know like He. He thinks he is talking about Are are absolutely more progressive than what His own running mate was talked about two thousand eight so anyway. Yeah that I mean. I think that one of the real fundamental questions here for the Democrats and I and maybe this is oversimplifying terribly. But this is talk. Radio after all the Are you with Wall Street or are you You know against Wall Street. Are you willing to be skeptical? A Wall Street You know I think Elizabeth Warren tried to set down a marker on this question. I think that Hillary Clinton clearly did when she went and gave those Goldman Sachs beaches in secret for six figure sums and and then wouldn't reveal their contents I think that hurt her a lot in the I mean that clearly. Marker is not a member of the ninety nine percent when she did that in in in leading into the twenty sixteen campaign and I'm just wondering Where you where you see that I mean is is that I think. That's I think that's right. And that trump also exploded that pretty effectively right he and In his two thousand sixteen campaign he very much played the role of the populist and he claimed that he would be you know supporting main street over Wall Street. Of course the ad his policies have Twos for Wall Street for more than main street but You know that is populism is really powerful and you know one upside for Joe Biden is that he has historically had this reputation of being. You know middle class. Joe Maybe don't buy it but You know he is his hasn't been seen over the years guy who fights for the working class He needs to stick to that In order to win the election if he you know He's be careful about these fancy fundraisers with Wall Street executives. He needs to be super careful about floated. The idea of Jamie diamond being as treasury secretary. he has to send the right signals to the electorate He is actually going to fight for working class. Americans or he is a really really hard time bringing Burn voters he needs to stay out of Wine Caves. He definitely sounded line. And he's gotTA think about it. You know with his running mate he needs to I think it wouldn't be a bad idea. He can find a more progressive Person to join him on the ticket. I think that could help a little bit Let's see I'm going to mention any names with initials? E W COMBINE THE INITIALS E. W do come to mind You know I do think though There's GonNa be a lot of pressure him. rightly so have a person of color on the ticket So you know they're gonNA that's GONNA be a challenging question for him. Paul Hindsight thank you so much for joining me. Short notice this morning always good talking with you like what and that is. We're fast approaching top of the hour at the end of the Dave Ramsey show here Wednesday march eleventh twenty twenty listeners. Thanks so much for joining us this morning. A lot of phone calls from you out there and Stay healthy everybody have a good day and we'll talk to you all tomorrow.

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