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Impeachment Inquiry; More Transcripts Released; How Suburban Woman See The 2020 Vote

Anderson Cooper 360

43:58 min | 1 year ago

Impeachment Inquiry; More Transcripts Released; How Suburban Woman See The 2020 Vote

"Support for Anderson Cooper. Three sixty comes from our friends at rocket mortgage by quicken loans. Their team of mortgage expert is obsessed with finding a better way which means that their number one goal is to make the home buying process smoother for you get started online rocket mortgage dot com slash A. C. three sixty equal housing lender licensed in all fifty states nmlsconsumeraccess.org number. Thirty thirty finding the right pros for home. Projects can be tough and spark a lot of questions. Like how do I find a pro. Who can help? Will they do a good job. Will I get get a fair price. That's where home advisor can help from leaky. Faucets to major remodels homeadvisor connects you to the right pro for the job in seconds and even helps you get a fair price. Ice Read reviews check. Project Cost Guides and book appointments go to Homeadvisor DOT COM or download. The free homeadvisor APP to start your next project. Good evening. John Berman here in for Anderson. Tonight Mick Mulvaney in the middle right in the middle and that might be a very uncomfortable. The place to be the job of the White House. Chief of staff is to implement the president's policy in new testimony released today says it was Mick Mulvaney implementing the the policy of pressuring Ukraine for the President's own political gain new the res transcripts from two top national security aides in the White House. Now Time Mick Mulvaney Dany to a direct role in what has been called a quid pro quo others call the shakedowns. Some call the bribery at the heart of the impeachment inquiry this on the day that mulvaney subpoena and skipped his deposition on Capitol Hill. Both the on a hill and Lieutenant Colonel Alexander van men say the president's Ambassador to the EU Gordon Song told told them during a July meeting that he had spoken to Mulvaney and that there would be no meeting between the two heads of state nor military aid for Ukraine without quote investigations. Colonel said quote the whole came from the chief of Staff's Office Hill said quote. We were told that it actually came as a direction from the chief of staff office colonel and called the administration's expectations of Ukraine of Ukraine quote a deliverable in ambassador. Someone's meaning he. He said quote there was no doubt he also said this of sunlen quote he was calling for something. Calling for an investigation that didn't exist into the Biden's in Barista Hill says her superior National Security Adviser John Bolton called this quote improper arrangement also today bones lawyer in a letter to Congress made clear his his client has extensive knowledge about relevant meetings and conversations that could be important for the impeachment inquiry but that he won't testify until and unless federal the judge rules on whether he must comply with congressional subpoena here to discuss all of this is Congressman Denny. Heck a member of the intelligence committee which conducted the closed door hearings. In which next next week we'll begin the public phase of the impeachment inquiry congressman. Heck thank you very much for being with us. These transcripts in the statements from Fiona Hill in Lieutenant Colonel Vincent and do you think this brings this all closer to the president himself. I don't think there's any doubt about it for first of all John. I serve with Mick Mulvaney for several several years in the House of Representatives. I know back. There is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that he never would have implemented. This had it not been at the direction of the president and secondly a bit of a unique the perspective. I'm a former chief-of-staff buy-sell for Governor Booth Gardner out here in Washington State. I guarantee you know chief of staff is going to implement anything of that. Importance uh-huh without direction from their principal in this case the president of the United States. But let's be clear and let's be correct in our terminology John. He's the acting chief of staff and frankly I'm not very sure or confident. He's going to be the acting chief of staff much longer because I think what's about to happen here is that he and ambassador Sunland online and perhaps Rudy Giuliani or all about to get thrown under the bus. Okay you bring up the Washington Post reports. which does suggest that re- Giuliani Mick? Mulvaney eighty an impasse. There might be treated as fog is from some supporters of the president in your mind. You just said that doesn't hold any water. Why mm-hmm because again? It defies credibility that the president's personal lawyer a large donor who had a ready access to the president. That's what ambassador Sunland did and his acting chief of staff would be carrying out these kinds of important acts without the direction of the President United States sites. It just defies credibility. And that's even before you consider the fact that of course we have the president's own confession in the form of the memorandum of call between himself often President Zielinski in which he actually attempted shakedown. The president of Ukraine clearly explicitly in arguably having read the transcripts of what. Colonel Vincent and Fiona Hill said. Neither of them said they heard directly from Mick Mulvaney about this. They say they heard from Sunlen who heard from Mulvaney was the significance of that? So John here we are. You can either believe that all of these. The people that came forward mostly career diplomats people across federal agencies across continents. All of these people who have come forward and giving depositions positions every one of which has in every material way corroborated one another and their narrative and the set of facts that they've brought to light. You can either believe they're are not telling the truth. And Somehow conspiratorially they all got together they all contrived all of this they cross the T.'s and dotted the is. You can believe they did that. Or you can believe would which frankly I think commonsense likelier to be the case. The president's lying Mick Mulvaney receive subpoenaed to testify today. He skipped it. Obviously I'm sure you would like to hear from him directly what he has to say about it but now that he hasn't shown up. Your committee isn't going to fight it in court. Why not? We're not going to play a rope a dope. That's another delaying tactic. On their part they'd like to see this extended for months if not years. It's a tried tried and true. Play out of the presence playbook even when he was in In the private sector what he would do with the subcontractors litigated them into oblivion but secondly we you don't need it. There's a mountain of evidence against the president beginning with of course his own confession. Which again acting chief-of-staff Mick Mulvaney signed in the formative formative press conference in which he acknowledged that there was a quid pro? Cool bribery this for that and the text and The testimony of all of these people we've deposed they all point to the President John Bolton who was the national security advisor his lawyer wrote a letter to Congress today saying saying that Bolton knows many relevant things that happened it was part of many relevant meetings and if he did testify would have things to to say that would shed more light in all of this. You have any idea what he means. And I want to remind you and our viewers that he defied a subpoena to testify well. Actually we didn't issue the subpoena. John a doctor. You invited him. And he didn't again show up and he made clear that he would defy subpoena if it was issued right. And I'd like to think frankly that embassador Bolton would come forward. I think frankly wrinkly John. It's the patriotic thing to do. He's acknowledged that he has relevant information. I think his responsibility in his duty as a citizen to share it with us and with the American public and in fact I wish that he would take a page out of the book of two of the people that worked for him Colonel Denman and Dr Fiona Hill who had the courage to come Ford share with the committee. Speak Truth to power about what went on here but again we're not gonNA play rope a dope. We're not going to subject ourselves to month after month. After month of apple protracted legal battle. I do want to ask about the testimony. The depositions transcripts that have been released because you can look at this as if there are two buckets. There's one bucket which is did it happen and then the other bucket of is an impeachable. The did it happen. Bucket is overflowing at this point based on the deposition you you have this what you describe as mountain of evidence about what took place. The is an impeachable bucket. How do you intend to prove that next week when these series go public so John? That decision is really one of a matter of conscience of each of the four hundred thirty five members of the House and the hundred members of the Senate that's a question of them engaging in personal reflection and I dare say prayerful reflection about what is at stake here If you believe that the president's shaking down Ukraine threatening to withhold critical military assistance to a vulnerable ally vulnerable strategic ally in Ukraine who's trying to combat Russian aggression and let's remember that they're thirteen thousand Ukrainians who have lost their lives on their Homeland soil defending themselves against Russian aggression. If you believe the trail of of his oath of office in that abuse of power is impeachable. Then you'll get to. Yes but it's up to each of the four hundred and thirty five members to consider the fact but you're right. I mean there is a mountain of evidence and it is arguable and yet the president has not acknowledged in any way shape or form nor anyone around. I'd like for us to get to the point. Where the debate was is it or is it not impeachable but it is a fact congressman? Denny heck thanks for being with US tonight I appreciate it. Thank you for more on Mick Mulvaney vaisnys role in all this want to bring in CNN chiefly land list and former federal prosecutor Jeffrey toobin and CNN political analysts in New York Times. White House correspondent Maggie Haberman. Thank you both for being here Maggie just just based on what you know about how this White House works and what Mick Mulvaney is role is in it. Does he freelance. Would he freelance on something of this important. Want to speculate without having actual details but about this instance but what we do know is in the past. Mulvaney has not been known to go do things. Well outside of what the president is aware of. We certainly know that he we knew. Even before all this testimony that he was involved in terms of directing the freeze on the aid that he was acting on orders from the president. That's basically what we knew now. We have heard his name. Come up repeatedly in testimony and given the fact that this was going on over a period of many months these conversations. It is hard to imagine that this was all happening. You know with Mulvaney on his own and the president was unaware Mulvaney is going to be a key witness as you said did for Congress to get to before them. I don't know that that's going to happen. But he holds. The answers to a lot of this has always been Mick Mulvaney. He wants to let trump be trump. It's never let mc MC I mean Mick. Mulvaney is role in there is to implement Donald Trump's policy in wishes and wins right. That is certainly how he has described his own role. I think there might be times where he is pushing back more than he says. But there's certainly nothing that I have heard so far and might more might come out but nothing that I have heard. That suggests that he was trying to stop this or suggested at the president. This is a bad idea and remember John One of the things. We don't have an answer to still is who came up with this India to freeze the aid. Where where did this actually come from this come from Guiliani to this comfortable vinnie? Did this come from trump. I I could see trump saying you know what we send too much money doing it. That way. That's sort of what Mulvaney frankly had suggested in that White House briefing that he did. Look the president has questions all the time about sending aid to certain places so we have to say in fact you point point out the one time we have heard Mick Mulvaney talk about this extensively he more or less said yes. Yes this all happen Jeffrey. At his at his famous slash infamous press conference a couple of weeks ago. You know. I think the Democrats are making a choice here. which I don't know is necessarily the right choice? There are two witnesses uses who could really talk about what Donald Trump himself said about the relationship with Ukraine because they are the ones who saw him every day. Remember the Republican defense. Here is that all these lower level witnesses are just hearsay witnesses. Will you Mick Mulvaney. The Chief of staff and John Bolton the national security adviser and both of them have refused to testify so far their legal position is somewhat different but in fact they have said they're not going to testify absent a court order the the the as you heard from Congressman Heck. They're not going to court art. They are simply think they have enough without these two witnesses. Maybe they do maybe they don't I don't know I mean that's a big sacrifice to give up those two witnesses he says Danny Heck says we're not going to play rope a dope basically. He said that four times. I don't know if it's time it's timing. It's time this is weeks or months yes it it is. Obviously it's their mind but you could also do two things at once. I mean you you could pursue this case while you are. I mean the the Intelligence Committee Mitty hearing is is next week and probably the week after you're going to have hearings before the Judiciary Committee sometime later in December. I don't know why you give up on these witnesses without even trying to expedite a court hearing I mean maybe it is too slow. Maybe and maybe they're too risky. I mean maybe they think these witnesses will turn turn on them. I just think if you want to know the facts you you would really want to hear from and Bolton on the very day that there are a lot finger pointing the direction and Mick Mulvaney there's a story of the Washington Post was suggest that some Republicans might make Mulvaney Giuliani sunlen befall guys here. Here we talked about this morning and I've been thinking and and when I called you in the morning no when we were on television this morning and I've been thinking about it a lot since we talked about it and I do think that there is a muddying the water strategy that this White House has been very effective at using. We saw the music during the Mueller investigation. We've seen the music through all sorts of other. Controversies controversies where they're basics position. It's proven right over and over again is people aren't really paying that much attention to the voters aren't paying that much. Attention the details so if we just handle it that way it's it's okay. It's so much harder to do that here. There's the president on the in the transcript of the call with Celeski and one thing I'm really struck by. which is that Giuliani tweet? This didn't get Looked at much but Giuliani when he tweeted that he had hired a lawyer. He tweeted right before he tweeted. The name of the lawyer The lawyers ears That he was doing this at the for essentially at the direction of his client That was very specific. Wording that was not in the general interest of my client and that was leading it right back to the president so I think this is going to get more complicated than they might anticipate. Let's talk about John Bolton for a second Jeffrey because you brought him up also the National National Security Advisor this to me strange in tantalizing but strange because is tantalizing letter from Bolton's lawyer saying he's got relevant things to say. If you WANNA go have a judge say he has to testify. Why dangle that I don't understand why he's dangling that in front of Congress well you know he is is in a different legal position than the lower level White House? Aides who have testified if the executive privilege exists at all it probably probably does exist for people at the level of National Security Advisor and Chief of staff and so Charles Cooper his lawyer who is someone who's very knowledgeable eligible about these subjects. I mean he said look you know we just want a court to decide this. We don't want to be in the position of making this decision. We will abide Bide Bhai whatever the courts decide now he could simply take a risk and just go ahead and testify. But he doesn't want to do that. I it's an unusual legal strategy. So the lawyers call it Interp- leader where you basically say. I'll do whatever you want judge but I'm not I'm not following. I'm I'm not taking a position. That's where he's going but in fact the way the Democrats are proceeding. It means. He's not gonNA test. You can do all those things legally Maggie without how this letter announcing to the world. I know things that's the Porta that seems strange to me. I had the same reaction you do. I didn't I don't understand the significance from a legal perspective him doing that. I do think perhaps and again I'm guessing here but I think it puts the White House and the president on some notice reminding them that he knows a lot that he could be sharing. I think that it you know again. Go back to what we said about early on Mulvaney. It's not lost on them. All that they could become scapegoats and I suspect that they are going to make clear Why why that isn't so all right? Jeffrey stand by much more to discuss. We have president trump's reaction to this ready steady drumbeat of of testimony. That was released this week. And we're GONNA talk to an adviser to four different presidents Republican and Democratic about the role that presidents chiefs of staff play in all of this support for Anderson Cooper three sixty comes from our friends at rocket mortgage by quicken loans. 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Faucets to major remodels. homeadvisor connects you to the right pro for the job in seconds and even helps you get a fair price. Read reviews check project. Cost Guides and book appointments go to Homeadvisor DOT COM or download. The free the HOMEADVISOR APP to start your next project Mick. Mulvaney the president's chief of staff under fire tonight to national security. Aides have testified. He put the whole. He put the hold on both the military aid for Ukraine and a meeting between the two heads of state their source the US ambassador to the EU. Gordon Sunland Roland. He's not just a presidential appointee though. He also gave a million dollars. Toward the president's inauguration in fact just last month on twitter the president called embassador sunlen unquote a really good man and a great American today however president trump acted like he hardly knew the Guy Norton Simon said at the beginning of September. Presume there were deployed broke. Both Daniel is telephone calls review on September. The ninth had he ever talks you prior the telephone. I hardly know the gentleman back with us. Jeffrey toobin and Maggie Haberman. It was so predictable. The this would happen and we saw this before with Paul manafort person after person Michael joyner barely barely know. When does the president start to do this this with people and what does this signify? Well look at minimum signifies that he does not want to suggest there's any proximity between the two where he would be so willing to tell someone these things and and he's trying to undermine sounds credibility which is what we saw him do with Manafort and Cohen when there were questions about what they knew and could testify to. It's never a good sign nine when that begins usually when he when he says that about somebody he rarely actually uses the phrase. I hardly know them. It's usually I've met him once. I don't know them well he he actually really set it. I don't think that bodes. Well I don't know how significant is in the grand scheme of things because what someone's done already is amend his testimony. I think he said what he's GonNa say. So but it was only after him ended his testimony that president trump used that phrase that only a bad screenwriter would use right. I mean normal. You don't use that explicitly uses it again. I think he uses visit when he is trying to suggest that the person couldn't know what they're talking about because he always looks at it as who knows him personally and that's how he describes it so one person. He is not used this with yet. Jeffrey is originally on it yet. I don't know if it's yet or ever difficult Guiliani Guiliani. Every day finds himself more central for this. We've talked about how we hire. Laura is because he said Yeah. Yeah you know. I think it's possible to overstate his personal legal liability. I you know the people say oh. It was rooting going to be prosecuted by the US Attorney's office. He used to run. And you know it's it's a very dramatic idea you know if you look at Giuliani's as behavior you can say it's unethical. You can say it's improper the number of actual possible criminal violations. He's involved in seems to me almost none I. I don't see the legal jeopardy. He is in possibly failure to register as a lobbyist for for Ukraine those cases have been rarely brought and even more rarely successfully brought. I just I I. A lot of people are very mad at Rudy. Giuliani and they WANNA see the cops after him. I'm not sure there's there's anything there that's definitely true that I think a lot of people are doing some wish casting about what could be their bite. I do think and you know this much better than I do. And we've seen this play out in the last few years when federal prosecutors sort of get under the hood of somebody's finances I it can go to different places and we saw that with Michael Cohen and we saw that with any number of people who've who've been investigated in the last few years so I don't I don't think it is is a good thing that he's for him that he's being investigated by the southern district. It may not end the way people think little bit more of what the President set the lawn. Today I'm not concerned about anything. The testimony is all been fine. It seems that nobody has any first hand. The knowledge there is no first-hand knowledge but in no case I've been heard in no case is that I have I been heard. I want to talk about next week. Take the president. Says he's not concerned at all yet. This will be historic. We have public televise impeachment hearings very often in this country and I'm wondering the White House views that heading into that look so there's a difference between the president and the White House on how they're viewing it. The White House is viewing it from sort of the the fact based practical practical we've seen hearings that had blown up on the Democrats before the Corey Lewandowski hearing didn't work out the way they wanted. Certainly the Robert Muller hearing didn't work out the way they wanted and the president is where both of those things but donald trump is is uniquely aware of that White House is the impact of television on people watching it and how they will take in the information and how a good witness can be compelling doing and I don't think he is thrilled with any of this. I don't think he's thrilled that he has to go through them in a number of people who've been in touch with him He is he. He's just sort of dreading all of this this. I think he tells himself this will be fine. He is trying to tell himself. This is just another political. Fight has to go through. But he knows the power of of televised hearings can be compelling pelling. Geoffrey you notice it was one thing he said yesterday and earlier today that you just showed that. I think you're going to hear a lot next week is I didn't talk to these as people I mean the the leadoff witness is investor. Taylor and as Taylor has acknowledged he did not have one on one conversation with with with President trump. And that. I think we'll be a major republican. Talking Point come Wednesday the Democrats in Congress our congressional team reporting on this tonight is apparently preparing and for these hearings at a level with which they haven't done before certainly more than the Muller hearings they're going to have counsel. Do the questioning here. It does seem Jeffrey. They're they're very aware of what Maggie describes describes as the TV moment that will be happening absolutely. And if you think back to I mean all the way back to Watergate you know. The Sam Ervin was the chairman of the committee. It's one of the defining moments of the nineteen seventies The one thousand nine hundred ninety eight Clinton hearings themselves weren't as dramatic. You didn't have John Dean and the or anyone equivalent but I mean this is going to be one of the things. Donald Trump's presidency is remembered for the fact that impeachment hearings took place and and these witnesses testified now. Does he get impeached. Does he get convicted. Does he get reelected. Beats the hell out of me. I don't know but this is going to be a historical moment home and this president's in one as Maggie says he's keenly aware of he knows. TV He probably watched those hearings for all we know knows what it was like. I mean he certainly watch over the Watergate hearings. I have no idea but I mean he but he's certainly watched the muller hearings. He certainly watched parts Lindau ski hearing I mean he he he will be paying attention to this right Maggie Jeffrey. Thank you very much for being with US tonight. Coming up more on the questions surrounding Mick Mulvaney and David Gergen who knows a lot about the realities inside a White House remember. uh-huh create an ad like this one visit pure winning dot com slash CNN. That's the end of the morning dragon experiment. Are you going to play first off. I'm always sleigh at Queen's secondly yes brick and mortar five all episodes premiering Sunday November tenth. Only on adult swim as we mentioned the top of the broadcast of White House. Chief of Staff is in charge of implementing White House policy the president's policy so what are the transcripts released Lisa of testimony from to White House. Aides who point to President Trump's acting chief of staff Mick Mulvaney as a focal point. They say he made a great deal of the maneuvering bring in the Ukraine affair. Few better to ask about all this David Gergen who has served in four white houses both Republican and Democrat. He is a CNN senior political analyst. Let's David thanks so much for being with us. Look generally speaking judge in your vast experience and I do mean that vast experience inside these different administrations to chiefs Lisa Staff. Freelance typically. Do they do things on their own. No no even the strongest chiefs of Staff. Don't and Mick mulvaney bovine is I think the weakest chief of staff and modern history. You know he's he's he's still acting both of his predecessors were fired. The president makes it clear on many occasions that he makes all the decisions everybody reports Dan. He doesn't really really doesn't matter. In a number vacancies occurring government because he is the government And so I think that Mick Mulvaney is in a situation where he he would never go outside his lane he would only he he would act at the Bass to the President even strong chiefs of staff go to the president with a big issue and Al.. Hey who had enormous power during the closing months of of the Nixon administration when the President essentially sort of off Keel and. Hey Guy Dolle things together. Yeah there he would still go to the president. Jim Baker. Who is I think the most successful chief of staff in modern history working for Ronald Reagan He would never go And Act independently of Reagan. He would always go to the boss. He would also explore things with other so and one more thing John and this decision Asian about holding back money was a big deal. That's why so many people like you know the the Bolton you know were in revolt against the whole Hennessy. Staff opposed this teams over the State Department opposed. The chief of staff is not GonNa make a decision absent presidential direction of such weight and and so controversial without taking it to the boss to start with and so I was thinking. Of course he he got the information Got The direction From the press. I just don't think there's any doubt that ultimately He did that and by the way if he didn't if he was rogue L. Player out there he'd be gone by so now he'd be the scapegoat about all of this. We wouldn't even be a mess all these hearing so. I'm not sure this was necessary. Or you think this was necessary to prove you. So you see this as definitive proof. Now that the president was involved was involved either directly or at least oversaw. What has has been described as a shakedown forcing the Ukrainian leader to investigate the binds in order to get a meeting or in order to get this military all signals point point to this went into the Oval Office? The president was deeply involved. There's no signal to the contrary. I will say this John Because I want to. I want to reinforce something Jeffrey. Free an argument. Jeffrey was making the Republicans cleverly. I think you have created a catch. Twenty two for the Democrats and that is they're arguing. Well the president. There's nothing in any of these people. that directly comes in the president. There's no evidence that the president ordered this and the same Republicans ineffective blocking from testifying three men who knows the truth. Who Know the full story? We've been denied and that is obviously vein. Obviously Bolton but obviously Giuliani as well and you know Democrats I think have to fight harder to get their testimony. I think Jeffrey was right. I don't understand the strategy there on about saying in well it'd be just rope it up. They ought to be raising. How so people WanNa just when when the final report comes out and the Republicans are you but you never proved it? You never proved it. They against there's only one reason we didn't have the full story and that is the key people wouldn't testify. So that's one argument here is that you don't have directly. Even though all fingers point in a certain direction the other argument that you've heard and I think you will hear again after all. This evidence is presented publicly that which has been presented behind closed. Doors is yes it happened. Yes there is the evidence of all this but it's not impeachable. I'm just wondering if you think that more evidence you have that it actually happened a certain way. If there's a point where that becomes an argument for it being impeachable. I do think that if you get the full story. It's going to have a thuggish kind of quality to at least one or two major players and it's going to reveal things about the White House. It sort of fit our darkest interpretations of what it's like like inside this team So that it's important to get a more graphic story. I thought you know one of the the Taylor testimony for example which was the most important testimony. We've heard so far. Had graphic quality to it. They really made us understand how it sort of ugly. This situation was and William Taylor will be the very first the public witness in the impeachment inquiry televised next Wednesday David Gergen. Thanks so much for being with us this evening. One last point one point. Yeah in one one of the reasons I think the Democrats. I've got to pay attention right now. Is there is some slippage in national support for an impeachment. It's it's small but it is contrary slightly above fifty percent below fifty percent. That is something I know. They are watching tonight. David Gergen thanks for being with us. Thank you John. We do have breaking breaking news Michael Bloomberg files for a twenty twenty Democratic primary. Does this mean he's definitely running on Saturday. November Ninth Jon Moxley Frizz Kenny Omega Kobe versus Chris Jericho for the ad w world world championship wrestling presents full gear by now or the our live Wednesdays on TNT alleged all the league rustling hits harder flies higher and Briggs all boundaries Christianity all wrestling a new League Wednesdays at at eight on TNT breaking news. Michael Bloomberg just filed to run in the Alabama Democratic presidential primary. The billionaire and former New York City mayor will also file for the Arkansas Democratic. Primary before Tuesday's deadline this is according to a Bloomberg spokesman who also says Bloomberg has yet to make a final decision on a run. What we do know is that Bloomberg is worried that the current Democratic candidates can't beat president trump? Here's here's what Joe Biden had to say about that today. Michael's a solid guy and let's see where it goes. I have no no problem within getting in terms of he's running because last polls I look Dan. I'm pretty far heads earlier. I spoke about the potential Bloomberg run with Democratic National Committee Chair. Tom Perez Mr Chairman. You spoke with Michael Bloomberg last night. What did you take away from that conversation? Well I told the mayor exactly what I tell every candidate or potential candidate which is we will welcome them. We will treat them fairly. We will make sure there's a level playing field and then we will leave it up to the voters to decide and I appreciate the call and we will do exactly that if in when he enters the race. Now I know what your job to say. You treat him exactly like any other and that everything's kun-bae in the Democratic field but his political adviser said the reason he's considering getting in is because he's concerned that the courage field is not positioned to beat Donald Trump. What do you make of that statement? I think there's many people feel that we have a really strong field and whoever emerges merges our nominee is going to beat Donald Trump. I have absolute confidence in that. And the reason I have absolute confidence in that because everybody running for president it believes is that if you have a pre existing condition you should be able to keep your healthcare and and that we should be Taking out in the pharmaceutical industry. And that you know we should be fighting to make make sure that people have access to the American dream not just those in the one percent and and so the unity of values we have as a Democratic Party. What what they they have in common with? The American people is that we're fighting for the issues that people care about. And that's why we won at scale this past Tuesday in Kentucky Virginia and elsewhere. It's why we won in twenty eighteen and twenty seventeen for that matter because I think the American people are on our side and I think our nominee whoever here she is is is GonNa win but if the premise of Michael Bloomberg candidacy is that the field as it currently stands is not positioned to be Donald Trump. You do not agree with that statement. I don't agree with that statement. I think we have a great field. I if other people decide they WANNA get in. I welcome them and we will continue to welcome them. I am absolutely confident at that Whoever emerges our nominee is going to win the race? And that's because of all the things I just said People want a leader. They can trust they. I want to restore honor to the Oval Office and they WANNA leader. That's GONNA fight for them not for themselves. There's been a lot of candidates running for an awfully long time spending an awful lot of time in states like I. I wouldn't Hampshire meeting voters. What are the challenges that someone getting in now would face? Well you have to introduce yourself to voters and you don't have a lot of time to do it and in so many of the states. It's not just trying to get on television. It's really getting to know people and so There's not that many days there's less than then One hundred days till Iowa and a month after I was Super Tuesday so this election cycle is going to be honest very soon Candidates know that. And that's why they are in overdrive. Do you think selling yourself to the Democratic primary electorate as a billionaire. What are the challenges there? Well those are the challenges that the mayor understands and we'll confront and I think Americans are going to judge the candidates on the content content and quality of their ideas their vision for America whether they will fight for them whether they will fight to restore honor to the Oval Office. Whether they're going to make sure we have access to healthcare whether we truly address. Climate Change Catastrophe whether we truly take action to reduce gun violence and whether we make sure that our leaders are looking out for everyday Americans not for people like Donald Trump. The way you have the primary debates set up is that there is a donor threshold. You have to receive donations for a certain number of people in the country to get into the debate stage of Mike Bloomberg Sell Funds. If he he doesn't bother raising money 'cause need to from two or three hundred thousand people to get individual donations. How would he get on the debate? Stage well those are rules those are. Oh the rules we set and We didn't make any exceptions to those rules. And I don't have any intention for the November and December debates. We've we haven't set the rules passed December. But we've articulated the rules up to and including December and they include grassroots fundraising threshold and every candidate. We'll have to meet that Mister style came in late in in Later in the process I wouldn't say it's late But later in the process than others and he understood the rules and he has complied. And I'm sure you're the mayor. Should he want to get on the debate stage. We'll understand those rules and do the same. So even if he's at ten percent of the polls across the board he's not going the debate into December unless he meets that threshold. That's correct right MR chairman. Tom Perez thanks for being with us today. Have a good day still ahead for rush three sixties Randi Kaye talks to a group suburban women to get their take on the twenty twenty race potential key voting bloc and what they said could be a worry to the trump obtain can't get enough of the NBA sign up for NBA League pass to gain access to every game being played across the Association Asian every night with all new ways to watch through the NBA APP visit Mba dot com or the NBA APP. To get started today a busy night. Let's check in with Chris to see what he's working on for Cuomo. Primetime the top of the hour. Sir J B mom man so we have Farid Zaccaria on tonight. Obviously obviously one of the items of intrigue here with Farid that this interview with the Ukrainian president was supposed to be to announce the investigations into the Biden's and others Obviously he didn't know what plot was afoot but has he ever seen anything like it before. And what can help us understand about why. This leverage was so powerful with Ukraine. Right we have anthony SCARAMUCCI here and we have Tom Steyer here to talk about Bloomberg and the new anonymous book. Yeah he's got a Billion Dollars Bloomberg Scott about fifty. Thank you so much recipe with us. See in a few minutes. So did those democratic victories in Tuesday's election mean president trump support the suburbs is eroding. Just ahead we'll speak to some voters to Kentucky to get their take on the twenty twenty raise. Some Republicans are acknowledging democratic again in the suburbs. During Tuesday's elections could mean trouble for president trump and twenty twenty. There is of course argument that the apparent Democratic victory in the Kentucky Governor's race was just a one in time result due to a largely unpopular candidate. So we sent three sixties Randi Kaye. There to speak with a group of women voters who consider themselves independent minded to register registered Republicans to registered Democrats in three registered independence. Here's Randi's report. I think that people are probably feel lean clean. You know kind of fed up seven independent women looking for a change in leadership from Kentucky to Washington DC. How many of you are considering acidity? Just raise your hands. How many of you are considering? Possibly voting for Donald Trump won all but one in the group are turned off by trump. Saying he's too much like their current governor. Republican Matt Bevin who according to the Kentucky Secretary of State was just voted out of office and to this group the same things that turn them off from Bevan are what turn them off from President trump to and as you listen to them. Remember this is Kentucky where the grass is blue but the politics are decidedly read. I'm getting a sense when talking about Bevin almost it almost gives me a sense of trump fatigue from you is is that is absolutely. You feel like you're you're twenty. Twenty vote will mirror your vote here. for a Democrat and do and and it won't just be at the top of the ticket. Ah It's going to be up and down the line. It's going to happen across the board. Even in very local elections would not say I would not vote for him. It really it depends. I don't want to vote for him but it will depend on what the Democrats offer up. Who Do you like on the democratic side? I just I'd need someone to be more moderate. I need I need them to to. I Dunno use some commonsense and not be so extreme. I think that's what we saw in the governor race that in Mare's trump and Andy Bashir is a moderate Democrat that a lot of people on both sides can get behind. Why are you still considering voting for trump because I his values on much more with mind than any of the Democratic candidates and so it sounds like you're planning to vote the same way you voted did in the St race here for Governor? Yes Republican. Yes Sarah what else are you looking for in a candidate in twenty twenty and what. Where's your head? I think. Warren warn is probably my the one that I find the most reliable. I like plans. I want my politician to have plans and I want someone one who who is truly knows what they're doing who is level headed. You know I'm tired of angry. Men Yelling at us on TV every day. Think anger was the biggest emotion this election. I mean I'm tired of less thirty. I'm tired of angry leadership. Why do you think suburban suburban women helped propel Bashir to what appears to be a victory. I think that what we're seeing more about suburban women truly want to have their own invoice. We're seeing now like more people want to stand up for themselves. I think it was an issue of personality. More than politics with Governor Bevin. He just offended ended so many people and he attacked so many people. It was hard to vote for him after some of the things he had done. You're young woman first. Time presidential voter. How how important is that to you? I looked for unity in our politics. I think both

president President trump Mick Mulvaney Mulvaney Giuliani White House Ukraine Maggie Jeffrey embassador Bolton Chief of staff Congress Giuliani Mick Mick Mulvaney Dany John United States David Gergen CNN Maggie President Zielinski Joe Biden President United States
Will this "hand grenade" inadvertently take down Trump?

CNN's The Daily DC

20:16 min | 1 year ago

Will this "hand grenade" inadvertently take down Trump?

"Finding the right pros for home projects can be tough and spark a lot of questions. Like how do I find a pro who can help. Will they do a good job. Will I get a fair price. That's where homeadvisor can help from leaky. Faucets to major remodels. homeadvisor connects you to the right pro for the job in seconds and even helps you get a fair price. Read Reviews News check. Project Cost Guides and book appointments go to Homeadvisor DOT COM or download. The free homeadvisor APP to start your next project. Hey everyone is David Chalian the CNN political director this is the daily DC impeachment. Watch watch every weeknight. We've got you covered with up to the minute reporting and analysis into this historic impeachment inquiry. Today wraps up the seventh week of this fast-moving saga and I have two incredible guests. Tell me process what's already happened. And what is likely to happen in the weeks to come in a few minutes. We'll be talking with Mark Mazzetti Pulitzer Surprise winning investigative correspondent at the New York. Times marks also is CNN contributor. But I I'm joined by my colleague. CNN political correspondent. Abbie Philip. Welcome back to to the PODCAST. Thanks for having me so Once again I feel like We've done something wrong to piss off the house. Democrats who seem to drop transcripts every day as as we are about to sit down and record this podcast so we are now sitting with piles of paper of two. I would argue two of the most critical transcripts In this entire impeachment agree. You have Fiona Hill. Who worked in the White House and was not on the July twenty fifth call but was the first person that had worked in the White House that had come before the committee to testify about her experience? She worked for John Bolton the National Security Advisor directly and had Ukraine in her portfolio And we have the transcript of Lieutenant. Colonel Vin men who we know was on the July twenty fifth. Call listening thing in from the situation room and his transcript came out today to now again. We learned a lot of what the news of what these folks had to say to. The committee The days that they testified. But we now see a more context here and deeper Detailed descriptions of what they told the committee. Can I just get your top line initial all sort of like thought that what has popped you of what you've seen here while I do think and I've been feeling this way for a long time. There is an element of what everybody everybody. So far has testified to which is the feeling that this proposed quid pro quo that was unfolding as related to Ukraine was is incredibly damaging to you not to US foreign policy beyond it being inappropriate beyond it being unseemly potentially illegal they. They also felt that it was dangerous in a lot of ways because of how it emboldens Russia. I also think that what Fiona Hill does is because because she worked in the White House and she's kind of in a little bit of a higher echelon in terms of White House officials. She has some visibility into what the senior administration ration- official of view of this whole thing was and she speaks directly to the role of chief of staff. Mick Mulvaney all of this. She makes it very clear. That that Mick Mulvaney Dany was supportive of the idea that the meeting and that the aid would be contingent on the investigations into Biden and 2016. That is an extraordinarily narrowly important development. Because I think it brings it closer to the president which is what has to happen this investigation. So far we've gotten a lot of atmospheric expunge Getting closer and closer to the president will make this The connection between what we're hearing and whether the president should be impeached over it more clear in the minds of people along glad you bring that up about proximity to the president because as you know. The president spoke to reporters today as he wants to do on the South Lawn of the White House and one of the people we know spoke to directly to the president about this notion of a quid pro quo. Was Gordon Sunland. The ambassador to the U.. And he came came out of that conversation with a clear directive from the president that there was no quid pro quo yet He went back as we know this week. Revised his testimony testimony. And I think pretty clearly put forth A scenario where he his testimony now is that he believed there was a quid. Pro Quo at play Despite despite what the president's specific words were to him I now want you to hear how the president responded to reporters when asked about sunlen changing his testimony. It's the money. Let me just tell you I. I hardly know the gentleman. But this is the man who said there was no quid pro quo. And he's still says that and he said that I said that and he hasn't. Jj testimony so this is a man that said. As far as the president is concerned there was no quid pro quo everybody that specified even the ones that are trump haters. They've all been fine. They don't have anything. Do Things here that I want you to please one. I hardly know the gentleman. Please address that. I go sorry to this man you you know this is Donald Trump's version of that me from Kiki Palmer that I don't even know this guy if I saw him walking down the street but Donald Trump had a close enough relationship to doc to Gordon. Sunland that keep in mind. The conversation that he's referencing in that clip happened basically in the middle of the night. The Gordon Sunland had a close enough relationship. Asian ship that at some point between. Let's say midnight eastern time and six am eastern time. He had a conversation with the president of the United States on the phone. In which the president said there was no quid pro quo. But what's really what Sunlen is describing the details of what he's describing is a quid pro quo. That's the difference between what's going on on and trump keeps claiming that just because he didn't use the words it didn't happen but that's not actually what is being described. Trump is doing classic trump here. which if you listen to his words exactly exactly what he's saying he says someone's testifying? I say no quid pro quo. He hasn't changed any testimony about what I said. No I know what someone changed his testimony about what he perceived to actually be happening yes and what. He actually carried out as the person who said that. He was in charge of this Ukrainian policy policy so the president. This is the Republican argument right at this moment. which is that the words quid? Pro Quo did not come out of the president's mouths. I think unreasonable people would would would question whether that is a legitimate defense. Because if in fact people were actually carrying out a quid pro quo in their policy and in what they were asking the Ukrainians for it doesn't matter whether or not those words were used and the fact that president trump is doing what he did to his former personal attorney. Michael Cohen and to Paul Manafort his former campaign manager in both cases claiming he doesn't even know people who say things that are not favorable to him. It just goes to show that he clearly views San Lind's revisions as a problem for him. One more thing before we go to break and bring market. I want you to hear another piece of sound from the president today about his acting chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney and whether he would like he'd be okay with him Going up to the hill to testify as you know He did not show up to testify and this was the president on the South Lawn. Today I don't want to give credibility to a corrupt with John. I've loved that Miko Up. Frankly I think do do great. I'd love to go. I'd love to have almost every person. Go Up when they know me what I don't like is when they put all these people that I never met before abby well there was a time when the White House was saying that the real problem with what's going on on the hill is that it's happening behind closed doors and our people aren't being asked has to testify and we don't have representation from lawyers and now it is. The whole thing is just illegitimate and I don't even want to give give it legitimacy by having Mulvaney go out there and testify I actually do think that It's a real question why the White House hasn't tried to put more witnesses that might tell a favorable story for the president On Capitol Hill. Why haven't they pushed harder for some of those people to testify and it could be because they're concerned that maybe it's not going to actually turn out that away? If Mick Mulvaney testifies Fiona Hill has implicated him. In all of this and I think the president's trump's comments today really just indicate that he's aware that there's danger there especially also moving gave a press conference in which he said. Yeah we asked for political quid pro quo. So he's going to have to explain that to. Yeah I mean the reason. I think that these these people are not going up to testify to tell a story that would be advantageous to the administration is because the facts make that very hard to do. Yes exactly okay. Abby you stay right there we have so much more to discuss We're GONNA take a quick break. When we come back we will be joined by Mark Mazzetti of the New York Times right after this break? Finding the right pros for home. Projects can be tough and spark a lot. AWW questions like how do I find a pro. Who can help will they do? A good job will get a fair price. That's where home advisor can help from. Leaky Faucets to major remodels homeadvisor connects you to the right pro for the job in seconds and even helps you get a fair price. Read reviews check project. Cost Guides and book appointments go to Homeadvisor DOT COM or download. The free homeadvisor APP to start your next project. Remember to create an ad like this one visit pure winning dot com slash rush. CNN welcome back to the daily DC impeachment. Watch I'm David Chalian. Have Philip still with me and we're both pleased to welcome New York Times Washington correspondent and CNN contributor Mark Mazzetti. Welcome to the PODCAST mark. Thanks for having me I know that you've looked into the role of Giuliani in this quite a bit and I WanNa read to you one of the things that We saw in the Fiona Hill. Transcript today is that She testified that Volcker said that he would be able to reason with Giuliani and manage him in this process the on void to Ukraine And and her quote what she told. The committee was well. We did not think that this was manageable. She said quote and Ambassador Bolton Her boss made it very clear that nobody should be talking to Rudy Giuliani on our team. Were anybody else should be. What did what do you think John? Bolton was seeing in Rudy Giuliani that he was trying to shut down any communication from anyone at the White House and another John. Bolton quote from according to Fiona Hill is that Rudy. Giuliani is a hand grenade that is going to blow everybody up You know I think that while the the story seems like it's getting more complicated in many ways. It's getting simpler this week as Abbey's just said Gordon Saeed changes testimony. So now you have Basically the story of The quid pro quo. The Ukrainians are pushed to open vacations. Make statements and the military aid will be unfrozen now In parallel you have this effort. That Rudy Giuliani is undertaken. And what we hear from all the witnesses is they with different levels of visibility. New Rudy Giuliani was on this completely parallel. Track doing American foreign policy outside official diplomatic channels. And and what John Bolton is talking about with the hand grenade that concern we gotta shut everyone down. is that we cannot be part of this because Bolton knew do that effectively. What Rudy Giuliani was doing? was trying to go after the president's enemies and was going and was trying to In effect You know hijack American foreign policy in Ukraine for the president. That's the point that I think interest not only was he may be helping out in this scheme for trump to get dirt on Joe Biden. But what Julia was doing. If I understand you correctly is running this shadow foreign policy the policy. That's actually into thankful to what American foreign policy toward Ukraine crane is because it was okay with holding up money that they needed to protect themselves against the Russians. The American policy towards Ukraine from the beginning of the trump administration ministration has actually been fairly consistent. Right it is to support and help the Ukraine government in Ukraine military in his efforts against Russia. And all all of these people who were hearing testify the State Department officials why does officials. They're basically rowing in the same direction. Right this is what we need to be doing vis-a-vis Ukraine. And as you said. Here's where Giuliani doing the exact opposite right. Because he's got his own agenda and the question of course is to. What extent is he directly communicating with the president to carry out this agenda? Well shouldn't seems to be why I mean one of the things that I've been fascinated by is Giuliani seems to be so invested in getting rid of the US ambassador to Ukraine Ivanovich. And I still don't really understand what is his objective putting Biden aside To Pushing Ivanovich out and pursuing this effort that seems to be backed by these two Ukrainian American sidekicks who were were also also being investigated I mean? Can you connect those dots for us. A little bit right. I mean I think there's a there's a lot more we need to know about. The Rudy Giuliani operation. But we know Oh that that it it is part of a broader effort on the right to That had identified Ukraine is a problem. Ukraine Ukraine was the were there a nest of Hillary Clinton Supporters Democrat support. It goes back to two thousand sixteen and this was pushed by Donald Trump Junior. and and so what Rudy Giuliani in many ways is identifying enemies The Ambassador von which is an enemy. She is She is is not you know. recognizing the problems inside Ukraine. She is not getting rid of the quote unquote corrupt people. She's backing the people who are Maybe antithetical to the president. They didn't so they saw her as a someone who is standing in the way they needed to get rid of. And so this is part of Rudy. Giuliani is is in effect You know doing this under the radar operation To go after the the perceived enemies the president but was that is that True Ivanovich not working anti corruption efforts with the Ukrainians she of course was and this is the question of corruption is charge that's lobbed by all sides but it's kind of a it's it's a a it's a red herring right the ideas. If someone is anti-corruption it may be seen that they are pro corruption. Made me that. They're not on your side okay. So in Ukraine is an incredibly corrupt come country And it is been One of the efforts one of the things. The United States has been pushing for officially really is to try to reduce the corruption. And one of I think the biggest important stories of this week was but my colleague Andrew Kramer in Kiev who talked about the agonizing decision that President Zielinski had to whether to go out and announced this these investigations In order to get the aid or sort of stick to his principles and this is a guy who after so much corruption he he's elected in the spring on an anti corruption platform And the United States has been lecturing for so long and yet here his first interactions with the American government and is basically an effect shakedown. Okay and so. It's it's amazing that this this this episode really could have an impact on American foreign policy for years to come because people have long thought. Well the American Americans don't act this way. Well maybe they do yeah and and this is actually described in some of the transcripts that were released this week. There was a meeting that was described in one of the transcripts. And I'm forgetting which one because there are so many In which a US official says to the Ukrainians you shouldn't pursue the prosecution of this Of the former of the former Ukrainian president of they said. Oh Yeah like doc how. You're pursuing this investigation into Joe Biden and Hunter Biden. So it's already having an effect and and Fiona Hill describes it as corrosive. So I mean to your point. It's just just incredible but I also thought it was interesting. The Giuliani was actively seeking a visa for this former Ukraine prosecutor. Who the State Department said that guy? Hi is corrupt. We can't possibly give him a visa. So it's incredible to me. The Guiliani was actually pushing the interests of people who were known to the US government to be corrupt figures and Ukraine. And now they're turning this around and tries and some good guy and now they're turning around and run up his down down his up and this is right. This is the the group roop inside of Ukraine that is Investigating or the trump believes is investigating twenty. Sixteen the alleged server sure The idea that this conspiracy that it was actually Ukraine. Not Russia. The meddled in the election so anyone who is on that side the president has allies have identified as the the goodguys and people on the other side like ambassador. You are the enemies abby before we go one final question for you. What are you looking forward to next week in this inquiry? Obviously actually this goes public. What are you looking for? Most in those open hearings we will see who is when the paper becomes audio and video. So who is the best character witness for this case I was kind of going back to another podcast about the Watergate Saga and it reminds me and I think reminds all of us have how important that is the The person who kind of embodies the the details of what is happening and for the first first time. That's going to happen for US next week. I don't actually know who that person is out who that person will be most convincing either in their retelling of things around the kinds of details that they have. But it's going to be a critical moment for for this particular situation just as it was in In the Nixon Ah Watergate scandal and I think that that's we're all going to be looking for that. Of course there will be no secret tapes. Here that podcast slow burn has the. I assume what you're talking about. Has that episode episode of the reveal of the staffer who learns of the tapes. This of course is all set out in public transcript is out there. The president encourages for day to read it and he even invited China the to participate as well on the southbound. How riveting will this be at water coolers all across the country is really the question? Totally riveting abby mark. Thank you so much for being being here on the daily. DC Impeachment Watch and thanks to our listeners. We've got a new episode for you every weeknight so please make sure to subscribe on Apple podcasts. stitcher Google podcast spotify spotify. Whatever your favorite podcast APP is and while you're there leave us a rating or a comment? It really helps people find the show. We'll see you next week. Are you interested in learning how great companies grow the download. The Mar- tech podcast

president Ukraine Rudy Giuliani Donald Trump White House Fiona Hill John Bolton Joe Biden US Mick Mulvaney CNN CNN official Gordon Sunland trump DC Mark Mazzetti David Chalian
Trump administration models corruption even as it scolds Ukraine

MSNBC Rachel Maddow (audio)

47:02 min | 1 year ago

Trump administration models corruption even as it scolds Ukraine

"The show weeknights at nine Mr Non. MSNBC I always think it's worth remembering and reiterating that while memorial memorial day is a very somber day in terms of commemorating Americans who have sacrificed their lives for our country Today Veterans Day is is a much broader almost purely celebratory occasion for everybody who has served our nation in uniform. I wish that we didn't have to work on Veterans Day. I wish that more people including US got the day off honestly but even though that part of Veterans Day has eroded and more and more of us are they're going to school or working on the stay seems like year after year. Fewer people get this day off but it is still a big freaking deal and a happy occasion ought to congratulate and thank and honor against celebrate our veterans so happy Veterans Day even though today is a federal holiday a big one. The News Recycle did not skip a beat. Either we are steaming of course toward the start of the first public impeachment hearings on the Ukraine scandal. The day after tomorrow Wednesday morning and there's a lot to catch up on in terms of that scandal and the developments around impeachment as we head towards that public hearing it feels like it's kind of piling up with each passing hour so let's just let's just jump right in and you know me. I always like to start with the weird stuff. So let's bring back my good friends friends. lebane- Gore Hi guys. These two gentlemen have been indicted by federal prosecutors in New York in a criminal case that is unfolding alongside inside the impeachment proceedings that are happening on Capitol Hill involving the president since these two men were arrested at Dulles airport with one way tickets to Vienna Their legal cases have diverged from each other a little bit. They were arrested together while they were planning to travel together. They initially had the the same lawyers and appeared to be mounting similar defense but they now appear to be sort of going their own individual ways and now lawyers for Mr Parnassus in particular. He's the one here on the left. The screen is more the keyboard player in Ebor. Moore's the drummer Mr The guy in the left. His lawyers now told The New York Times that this spring as early as the first part of May this year he live and eager went to Ukraine to tell the Ukrainian government that they were not going to get any military aid and interestingly they were not going to get Mike Pence at the inauguration of the new Ukrainian president unless the Ukrainian government coughed up investigations into Joe Biden and his son investigations instigations designed to help president trump in his twenty twenty reelection effort. You see the headline there in the New York Times. Poll Giuliani Associate says. He gave demand for Biden inquiry. Sorry to Ukrainians quote not long before the Ukrainian president was inaugurated in May and associate of Giuliani's journey to Kiev to deliver a warning to the country's new leadership that associate love Parnasse told a representative of the incoming government that it had to announce an investigation into Mr Trump's political rival Joe Biden and his son or else or else vice president. Mike Pence would not attend the swearing in of the new president and the United States would freeze aid to Ukraine. What a world we live in will the vice president of the United States attend the inauguration of an important new national leader in the capital city of one of our key strategic allies? We're GONNA have to run it through. Live one of the guy who can broker that kind of thing. Is he with Ebor. Okay yeah of course. He's with regard are they. GonNa I mean what a world now. Do we believe that. Do we believe Mr Parties and this assertion that this is what he did in Kiev in May in his lawyer further author tells The New York Times that loves message to the Ukrainians quote was given at the direction of Mr Giuliani. Who Mr Parnasse believed was acting under Mr Trump's instruction do we believe that? Do we believe Mr Barnett says. He was doing in Ukraine and May of this year. I don't know I mean by the end of this administration are any of us ever going to be able to believe anyone ever again especially if they're associated with the highest levels of the US government. Will we ever regain our capacity to believe Salman when they speak. You know everybody else associated with the story says that we shouldn't believe left on this. Mr Giuliani says. He didn't tell love to say anything. Like Kheda and Ukraine the guy from the Ukrainian government who they met within Kiev says. Yes I did meet with Levin eager at that time in Ukraine. But they didn't bring up military. Terry a.d that Ukrainian government guy pointedly not bringing up the issue of whether they threatened to withhold the Mike Pence as well. It just doesn't address that part of of it for himself or at least egos lawyers. Who are quite a Dream Team? Now his lawyers are one of Paul Manafort's lawyers and one of trump's Russia lawyers. John Dowd eager admits through those lawyers. Yes he did go to Ukraine with love for that meeting in early May and yes. There was a discussion in Russian over coffee at a cafe in Kiev between him and love and a guy from the Ukrainian government he concedes all of that but says that no none of these threats threats were delivered. Not At least the way that left characterizes them and again I mean who you GonNa believe do you believe. Do you believe anybody who asserts anything in the middle of this scandal. I mean trying to sort out. Competing claims among associates of president trump and his lawyers is like trying to hold onto your lunch money at a pickpocket convention without a money belt. Good luck opium stashed in your sock. Because anything that was in your pockets is going to be gone so I don't know whether we should believe these guys in their competing claims as to what exactly they were doing in this extortion campaign and when and who was delivering what message but love says he was over there in early. May saying you're not getting your aid. And you're not getting your Mike Pence unless you cough up investigations of Joe Biden. And here's the thing. The military aid to Ukraine did get held up and Mike Pence did cancel his plan to go to the inauguration of the new Ukrainian president and the explanation at the time. For why Mike Pence did that was a little weak and a little weird. The vice president's chief of staff said that Mike Pence's trip to the Ukrainian inauguration Asian was canceled because nobody sent the advance team to check it out. The Secret Service didn't go over there in advance to planet and so oh Mike Pence went to Canada instead of going to Ukraine when that was their explanation for why he didn't go whether or not it was the fault of the Secret Service of the vice president's advanced team failing to launch and failing to set up the logistics for that inauguration for whatever reason Mike Pence did not go just as love. Love allegedly threatened at that meeting in advance of the inauguration. Pence in fact didn't show up. But you know who did show up you know who the. US government did send to to that inauguration in place of Vice President Pence. They sent this guy. They sent energy secretary. Rick Perry who you may recall somewhat inexplicably quit his job all of a sudden as energy secretary as soon as this impeachment scandal started to break open. Well a remarkable new story from the associated. Press today today we learn a little bit about what Rick Perry did when he went over there. For that inauguration against Mike Pence again Mike Pence was initially scheduled to go. That was canceled. Under strange range. Circumstances Rick Perry went instead. And what did Rick Perry do while he was there. Well honestly it just sort of brings it home. My God what what Must Ukrainians think of us. I mean we've been so condescending and patronizing even pushy with them about how corrupt they are right when it comes to just the inauguration nation of their new president who ran on an almost purely anti-corruption campaign when it comes to the inauguration of their new anti-corruption president. I mean in the New York Times today. There was the story about how the Ukrainian government was threatened that the vice president of the United States wouldn't come to that inauguration unless he could set a less the new the government could satisfy these guys love ebore that Ukraine would would help try to get trump reelected by cooking up some fake investigation into Joe Biden when Vice President Pence indeed cancelled his trip to that inaugural the Ukraine instead gets rick. Perry who according to the today basically brought his own u-haul full of gripped to that first date quote to political supporters of US Energy Secretary. Rick Perry secured a potentially lucrative oil and gas exploration SPLUR- ration- deal from the Ukrainian government. Soon after Rick Perry proposed one of the men as an advisor to the country's new president quote Ukraine awarded the contract attract Perry supporters a little more than a month after Perry attended zilenski inauguration in a meeting during that trip during the inauguration Perry handed handed the new president a list of people he recommended as energy advisors. One of the four names was his longtime political. Backer Michael Blazer a week slater blazer and his partner submitted a bid to drill for oil and gas at a sprawling government controlled site in Ukraine. They offered millions of dollars less us to the Ukrainian government than their only competitor for those drilling rights but nevertheless their newly created joint venture won the won the Gig they. They were awarded a fifteen year contract because a government appointed commission in Ukraine. Said they should get the same reporting team at the AP AP led by Reporters Desmond Butler and Michael Biesecker. They've previously reported that as as early as the beginning of May as early as the first week of May this new president elect in Ukraine had convened his advisors to talk about all the pressure he was getting from the trump administration to gin up some sort of investigation into Joe Biden. I mean this guy is newly elected newly elected on an anti-corruption platform. His country has been invaded by Russia. His country is in an ongoing war with Russia Shah. We're their most important political ally in the world where their biggest source of military support and he upon getting elected even before he's sworn in he's simultaneously getting pressured to open investigations into Joe Biden as a political savior for US President Donald Trump. He ultimately gets pressured that he's not going to get a White House. Meeting that military aid could be held up that the vice president who's initially is supposed to come to his inauguration that's going to get yanked. Meanwhile trump cabinet official does does show up at the inauguration and slips a piece of paper that says hey I got these buddies who are really into oil and gas A.. Who You got some government control bids going rick? Perry goes over there for the inauguration and uses that occasion in this context to put in a word for these two guys both of whom are big political donors owners to Rick Perry including the guy who owned Rick Perry the use of his private jet for one of Rick. Perry's presidential runs. Perry goes over. Are there on May twentieth for the inauguration of the new Ukrainian president elect and that's how he spends his time while they're trying to get his political donors owners a Gig of oil and gas drilling gig with the new Ukrainian government and that weeks later the Ukrainian government bites the bullet. And it's like okay. Rick Perry your friends can have fifty year oil and gas contract on government owned land here in Ukraine even though they offered many millions of dollars less than the Ukrainian cranium companies that bid for it. I guess we have to give them to you. We're lecturing about corruption right but even instill the US assistance this crucial. US assistance to Ukraine was held up and over the course of the past twenty four hours. We've had a whole bunch of new information filling in the gaps as to how that happened and when it happened and how people inside our own government started to figure out what was going on there because today the impeachment committees released testimony from Laura Cooper who is the deputy assistant secretary of defense for Russia Ukraine and Eurasia. You might remember. Her testimony happened the day that Republican trump supporters orders in Congress stormed the skiff. They stormed into the secure hearing room. That's reserved for classified briefings and classified testimony. They took over the place even they didn't have clearance to be in there. They like ordered pizza and broke security and mounted the stunt in there for hours and hours to physically blocked the impeachment proceedings from going ahead. Laura Cooper is the Pentagon official testimony got delayed that day for five plus hours because of that stunt but ultimately she did testify and we got the transcript of that testimony today and in that transcript. We get this really interesting window into her bewilderment. As a senior Defense Department official responsible responsible for that part of the world we get a sense of sort of her bewilderment and shock about this crucial. US Aid to Ukraine being held up it was for example Cooper's office at the Pentagon that put together the announcement that Ukraine was about to get their long planned delivery livery of US military aid this from her transcript. Today Cooper says quote by mid June we had announced. And we're moving out on it question okay and when you say by mid June. We'd announced it. Are you referring to the June eighteenth public released by the Defense Department answer. That's exactly what I'm referring to thank you question. Were you involved in the issuance of that public release answer answer yes I coordinated on the content of it quote. I believe that my staff helped draft it in consultation with our public affairs staff and they provided me with the draft for review and I approved moved quote question and that release essentially said that the Defense Department was planning on providing two hundred and fifty million dollars to Ukraine and security cooperation funds. Is that consistent. Stint with your recollection of the release. Answer yes that would be the gist of it question. And what was the effect of this release on June eighteenth by the Defense Department answer well one effect was is that the Ukraine embassy and the Ukraine government thanked us for making that public. They'd been looking for a public acknowledgement of the assistance. Not because this was unusual appreciate it when allies publicly note. What kind of support? We're providing Ukraine so that was an immediate reaction. We got a thank you phone call from the Ukraine Embassy. Our team in Kiev at the Defense Attache Office heard appreciation quote but the second potential effect was that a few days later we got a question and from my chain of command forwarded down from the chief of staff asking for follow up on a meeting with the president question. who was this email from? You mentioned the chief of staff off answer. Yes it came through a number of people before it reached my desk. I don't recall exactly how many people but it came from the chief of staff to the Secretary of Defense in our building question but you indicated. Did you thought this might come from the White House. Answer the way the email was phrased it said. Follow up from meeting so follow up from a meeting with the president so you now now. I'm thinking that the questions are probably questions from the president. That's how I interpreted that subject line. So June eighteenth right. This is the senior Pentagon official with responsibility for Ukraine. And it's clear like she and her office think this is normal. This military aid has been approved. It's gone through all its clearances. They go through the trouble of publicly announcing it but then there's a public announcement of it and so then. They got the questions from the president from a meeting with the president. Not just a White House meeting. The president has questioned about this. I mean again. Normal normal chain of events here. The military aid is going to Ukraine. Ukraine is delighted Ukraine says. Thank you for saying something publicly. Your your support means the world to us. We thank you phone call but then the president hears that. This aid is going to Ukraine and they get this series of questions right wait a second. Why is the president concerned about this? Dun Dun Dun and then in July it all starts to fall apart July eighteenth lower cooper censor deputy to a White House meeting at that meeting. It's it's announced that the White House has ordered a hold on some of the US government's aid for Ukraine. At this point Laura Cooper the Defense Department official seems to be sort of hopeful that even if the other aid is held up to Ukraine the aid that goes through the State Department Arment at least the military aid is still go through right now. Five days later on July twenty third cooper herself goes to participate in a White House meeting. She's increasingly concerned because she still hasn't heard anything specifically about the military funds but that other USA. That's supposed to go through the State Department. She she at that. Meeting starts advocating for the release of those funds because those funds are important to wire those being held up and sure enough July twenty fifth day of the call between president didn't trump and the president of Ukraine. Here comes the hammer. She gets a legal document at the Defense Department explaining that in fact the military aid is being frozen to on orders from the White House and the day after the phone call July twenty six. She's backup at the White House for another meeting. And Al- ambiguity is gone quote quote and there. It was to me anyway. In my experience it was the first time it was stated. Very clearly that yes. It is both the military funds and the State Department funds that are both affected by this hold and that relates to the president's concerns. What kind of concerns? The president's concerns about corruption. Oh yes president. Trump is very concerned about corruption. See that's why he sent Rick Perry over there to go to the inauguration with that piece of paper in his pocket with the names of his political donors donors that he wants to get in on that fifty year. Ukrainian gas contract woo because the. US government's really concerned about corruption in Ukraine Ukrainian government their very corrupt so this testimony from the senior Pentagon official. We've just got the transcript of it. Today now indicates that it was the president's instruction that was holding up both the US aid for Ukraine from the State Department and the US aid for Ukraine. The military aid from the Defense Department and Bloomberg News has some detailed and fascinating new reporting about how half of that gottfried up how the State Department side of that gottfried up in a previously unreported corded classified memorandum to Secretary of State Mike Pompeo State Department lawyers reportedly found that the White House had no legal standing to to block the spending of the Ukraine aid because they had no legal standing to block it. The State Department in early September freed up that aid to go to Ukraine apparently without telling president trump that they were doing so the State Department reportedly internally concluded that it was illegal to not send over those funds since two Ukraine before mid-september ultimately the person who ordered the State Department to pull the trigger after they'd conducted that legal analysis appears to have been John Bolton from the national security adviser quoting from Bloomberg quote shortly before September Ninth John Bolton had relate a message to the State Department that the funding could go ahead. It's not clear whether Bolton did so with trump's approval Fulton resigned from his job one week later. That's how the State Department aid gets freed up. The lawyers lawyers conclude that it has to go legally and then John John Bolton says yeah let it go then he quits his job now. The rest of the funds military funds Laura Cooper the senior Defense Department officials. She indicates in her testimony which we just got today that it also appeared to be quite illegal for trump to be withholding that part of the funding to she says in that meeting where it finally became crystal clear that the president had ordered the withholding of both the State Department money and the military money. She says quote in that meeting deputies immediately began to raise concerns about how this could be done in a legal fashion quote. The comments in the room at the deputies level reflected a sense that there was not an understanding of how this could legally play out the expression in the room that I recall was the sense that there was not an available mechanism to simply not spend money. That in the case of the State Department Department had already been notified to Congress and in the case of the military assistance was money already earmarked for Ukraine so the senior leaders were expressing that they did not see how this option Kevin was legally available. So you put all this together and I mean what we've got in all of this reporting and all of this testimony released right ahead of the public impeachment hearings that started the day after tomorrow. What we got is that while the president and his amazing cast of characters were working into pressure the Ukraine government that they had to announce investigations into the Democrats and into Joe Biden? Right while that was happening. The president will simultaneously Tena Asli ordering the withholding of aid to Ukraine. That was supposed to go through the State Department and aid to Ukraine that was supposed to go through the military and in both instances his efforts to hold up that that money and not disperse it appear to have been illegal which both the State Department and the Defense Department were well aware of and we're actively discussing including in at least one classified metal that they were using to advise at least one cabinet secretary at the time and while guys like Energy Secretary Rick Perry will working out their side Hustle to get their campaign donors drilling contracts from the new Ukrainian government well. The Ukrainian government was desperate for our assistance and support. And where remember the. US government is very concerned that these Ukrainians might be corrupt. We really need them to up their game when it comes to corruption because Perry's coming in somebody somebody needs to get paid when when when one you it's cabinet official Rick Perry's working his side Hustle for his campaign donors right and the vice president of the the United States may or may not be having his time brokered and his overseas trips vetted and approved by Levin Eager and haplessly and desperately in the middle of all of this mission Gos- from this administration. There's Ukraine invaded invaded by Russia. For whom we are the most important ally and the most important source of support including specifically the most important source of military support and people inside the US government who understand what that country is going through and why we support them and how important that is to us and them. I mean they're at their wit's end they can't quite believe this. This is happening the way it's happening. Here's here's Laura Cooper quote so dod. The Defense Department was concerned about the obligation of funds policy. My team we were also concerned learned about any signal that we would send Ukraine about a wavering in our commitment. That's another reason why I mean we did not want for this to be a big public discussion. You know if we were about to get it turned back on again because we didn't want to signal any lack of support question. Why would that be a problem for Ukraine answer so the first and easiest way to answer answer that is by looking at the peace process? Ukraine is trying to negotiate a peace with Russia and Ukraine is seen as weak and if they are seen to lack the backing of the United States for their armed forces uses it makes it much more difficult for them to negotiate a peace on terms that are good for Ukraine question okay so it would weaken an ally that being Ukraine is that correct answer it would weaken strategic partner question and it would potentially strengthen or embolden Russia answer that is correct it also got testimony released today from two other Ukraine experts in the US government. Christopher Anderson on the right Catherine Croft on the left both National Security Council officials. They both testified right about this odd period in. US history that they lived through in their jobs this year. We're all of our previous support and all stated. US policy to Ukraine was suddenly unle upended or weirdly. Put on the bubble. Catherine Croft is asked about the sort of upset the anxiety in Ukraine that it would become known that the US hospice maybe not supporting them anymore. Particularly against Russia question. I think you said that word of that. Word of this whole military assistance got to the Ukrainians and to to Ukrainian officials reached out to you quietly to ask you about this. Hold Kroft answer is yes. That's right question now. You said these two Ukrainian embassy officials you understood that they had no no interest in this becoming public. Is that right answer. That's correct that's correct question. And why would they not want this to become public answer. Because I think that if this Republican Republican Ukraine it would be seen as a reversal of our policy and would just to say sort of candidly and colloquially this would be a really big deal it would be a really big deal in Ukraine and an expression of declining. US support for Ukraine question. So as long as they thought they could work through whatever was causing causing the whole they wanted this to remain out of the public attention. Answer exactly so the pressure on Ukraine to investigate estimate his political rivals to help him his reelection effort. That's what the president is being impeached for. And we will have public hearings on that subject starting to after tomorrow that said the effort. Quick to put some real muscle into that pressure. By holding up legally appropriated funds from both the State Department and the Defense Department those efforts appear to have been illegal or at least judged as such by officials and experts inside the State Department and inside the Defense Department who were scrambling to figure scrambling to figure out what to do with these illegal instructions. But on top of all of that I mean the damage that we've just done to our ally right Ukraine's Ukraine's standing particularly when it comes to their ongoing war with Russia and the appearance of their strength and the implications of that for their negotiating position in with Russia while they engage in negotiations with them over an ongoing war. I mean that damage is done. That damage is done and even though this whole scandal is so ham handed handed to be laugh out loud funny every day right including Rick Perry over there bringing the anti-corruption message of the government and the trump administration to bear. That's on one side of the card. We're on the other side of the card. He's got the names of his campaign donors because he needs them to get their contract from the Ukrainian government when we're putting almost unbelievable. Well existential pressure on them. Here's a US cabinet official being like. Hey Hook up my buddies from that to Levin Ebor and in Russia Giuliani and all the rest of these guys through all of the other clowns in that particular clown car. It's ridiculous right. But then there's a real country in in the middle of a real war with thousands of their citizens dead right in the middle of all of this and the damage done to them to to our ally an ally that really needs our help against an Adversary that has invaded them. Taken part of their country and that means nothing but harm to us. That repair work obviously cannot even begin again as long as this administration is still in office now that we understand this much more about how they are conducting themselves. It's not just about praising Vladimir Putin having secret communications indications with them all the time it's this is what we are doing to our closest ally who is at most danger from Russia's every move. This is what we've been doing to them not threatening to do it. We've done it and unless this president is removed in this impeachment process. That repair job is going to be job. One for the next president of the United States if he is not removed by this impeachment process. We start that repair until he's gone some other way. Whoever replaces him? We'll have that as has day. One job one as the cleanup for what this guy's already done contour from Cox has all your favorites all in one place and with the contour remote you can use your voice to fund them on live. TV On demand and streaming APPs like netflix prime video and more see Cox dot com for details as we head toward the first public hearings and the impeachment of president trump. We got new testimony released least today from a senior Defense Department official and we got new reporting from Bloomberg News about how officials in the State Department and the Pentagon tried to cope with these decisions by the White House to hold up State Department assistance to Ukraine and hold up military assistance to Ukraine both on orders of the White House. Even the both of those holds appear to have been illegal on top of that we also got news about the trump White House twenty seventeen in two thousand eighteen holding up the provision of Javelin missiles to Ukraine and holding them up not at that point in exchange for some investigation. They wanted about Joe Biden. No they held up the javelin missiles in two thousand seventeen in two thousand eighteen for a different reason. This is from today's newly released testimony by State Department official Catherine kroft quote the Javelin the provisions one of the Javelin missiles in late two thousand seventeen early twentieth eighteen. Do you recall whether there was ever a holder freeze put on the Javelin answer. There was a process and there was one hold. There was one agency that put a hold on that decision question. which was that agency answer the Office of Management and Budget in the White House question? Did you understand why answer I. I understood the reason to be a policy one question. What was the policy? One answer in a briefing with Mister Mulvaney out of the office management budget the question centered around the Russian reaction question. What was the concern around? The Russian reaction answer that Russia would react negatively to the provision of the Javelin to Ukraine question. What was the reaction to that concern from the other agencies answer? I don't know that I can provide that information in an unclassified setting question okay. Is there any way to provide it. Broadly answer well. Can broadly. Say that all of the policy agencies were in support question and you mean in support of providing the Joplin's answer Kroft. Yes correct joining us now. Illinois Congressman Mike Quickly. A member of the House Intelligence Committee Sir. Thank you very much for joining us. I appreciate you being here. Thank you so. I'm drowning and transcripts but I know that you've been through all of these things live I wanted to set. Read that one setting winging up this discussion with you. Because I was struck by that sort of bald-faced testimony that the White House made the decision to hold up javelin missiles that were otherwise is due to be delivered to Ukraine and that all agencies believe should be delivered On White House concerns that Russia might mind. Here's what's questioning What's Mick Mulvaney doing making that decision when he's ahead of him be That's extraordinarily unusual. Leads me to believe that Mick Mulvaney Dany wasn't making that decision in his role. It was making that decision based on something The president was saying or doing which is more consistent with the rest of the policy in Ukraine. The reasons that they state that they're doing clearly aren't the case. Well Miss Croft goes on to suggest in her testimony that this direction and she seems to have been under the impression. That's this direction on this javelin missiles came from the president It is hard for us. I think from the vantage point that we have as has observers people who've been reading the transcripts released by the impeachment committees. It's hard for us to discern how many people were acting of their own volition and how many people were acting at the direction of the president. Is that something that you feel that you can discern from your perspective on the Intelligence Committee without being able to depose people like Mick Mulvaney people like Rick. Perry people like Rudy Giuliani. It's tough but let's look what's in the public record. You Have Malvinas admission into this whole point You have the White House called transcript. He have the Volcker text. You have all this Testimony here that you piece together and the bottom line is there's there's absolutely no way this takes place all the things that we're learning about the extortion of one of our closest allies without the president of the United States dictating adding that when these Gang of three or four go to the White House and talk about the new president in Ukraine. The President keeps saying over and over again and Talk to Giuliani so clearly. The shadow government of foreign policy. They're talking about Has set aside the established cream of our diplomatic corps so they can do the president's bidding to help him politically congressman. I think a lot of people are wondering when we should expect the public airings that start on Wednesday to be just a public version of the kind of discussions that you all have been having behind closed doors or is that we can read these transcripts of now are for Americans who have been sort of aware that this is going on watching the headlines but not following it closely should should. We expect that people tuning in Wednesday to watch those hearings Paying attention to this closely for the first time that they'll be able to follow this in basic terms starting from from square one. Are you guys picking up where you left off with. These closed door depositions. Well I think there's a reason that In a jury trial they don't just hang out depositions in a civil case. There's a lot to be said for watching these people testify. And what struck me about them was they were Clear clear they were consistent. They were compelling and I think that they showed The truth of what they were saying I think it was very hard to bump them off their game and I think that will help. A great deal is the American people watch their testimony. We're going to have to public hearings this week sir. Do you anticipate that'll be a pace going forward. We'll have a couple of hearings per week and it'll go on for a little while. Do you have any sense of the overall timeframe here look at some of this has to go with what time hi I'm allows We do have a time crunchier. Unfortunately one we didn't create because of the White House is obstruction here and the fact that so many of their witnesses were not allowed to testify. I look back at Watergate The article three of the articles of impeachment against Richard Nixon dictates four times in which which Richard Nixon obstructed that investigation. We saw that happen once in one day. They obstructed four times where four people were supposed to testify testify that that did not because the White House told them not to. All of these witnesses were told not to many of them had the courage of their conviction at come forward. This is compelling compelling testimony only a small percentage of the American people had read special counsel's report on what took place with Russia Far for more people watch these hearings as they took place. I'm hoping we have the same effect here coming this week. Carson quickly member the Intelligence Committee Sir. Good luck this week. Thanks very much for joining us. Thank you all right much more tonight. Stay with us. One of the landmark hearings in Congress. This year was the marathon the testimony from president. Trump's longtime attorney Michael Cohen during which Cohen made allegations of serious criminal wrongdoing by the president from before the campaign all the way up to through the White House that was the oversight committee and Congress Salsa the Oversight Committee that launched an investigation into trump's immigration policy and family separations at the border was the oversight committee that was spit that has been relentless on the president's alleged efforts to use the presidency to his own financial advantage whether it be sending vice president didn't pence to President Trump's Gulf resort in Ireland during his official visit to that country or the president's pitch to host world leaders at the g seven at his own property and Miami all of those oversight responsibilities all conducted under the leadership of that committee's Chairman Elijah Cummings and that was even before war that oversight committee took a central role in the ongoing impeachment proceedings against the president. The loss of chairman. Elijah Cummings would be hard at anytime but it has been an incredibly heavy thing to lose a leader with such gravitas. Someone was such a clear ethical core at a critical time. Like this people will look back at this moment and they will ask the question. What did you do and hearing him? We would be reminded that it falls upon each of us to give voice to the voice and comfort to the sick an opportunity only to those born to it and to preserve and nurture our democracy. He had little tolerance and for those who put party ahead of country or partisanship above truce. But he could find common ground with anyone willing linked to seek it with him and he liked to remind all of us that you can't get so caught up in who you are finding writing that you forget what you are fighting for now. It is true that he dictated in every aspect of his service today and he would have told me I don't WanNa service at the. US Capitol. But I felt like very strongly strongly that they were trying to tear him down and we didn't have to make sure that he went out. What the respect and the dignity that he deserves in this was a man of most integrity our our community? He the last woman you heard from. There's Maya Rocky more coming. She is congressman. Elijah Elijah Cummings is wife and now widow. She has always been an impressive figure in her own right. Most recently serving as the chair of the Maryland Democratic Party she spent more than two decades. Okay it's working in the public and private sectors including at the National Urban League and the Congressional Black Caucus Foundation and now in the wake of her husband's passing. A lot of people are wondering whether she may run for the seat in Congress that was left by her beloved late husband. My Iraqi more Cummings joins us here for the first time next. Stay with us. Please welcome to the show tonight mile rocky more coming. She's the widow of oversight committee chairman. Elijah Cummings this is her first television interview since the passing of her husband. Dr Rocky more. Cummings thank you so much much for being here. Real honor to have you here. Thank you for having me on Rachel so your husband was a very very valued guest here. Whenever we could get him we would talk to his staff and we'd always get like a twenty percent chance or twelve percent chance or some minor chance that he could join us on whatever we could? We'd hold a spot for him in the hope that he could be here We miss him both his role as a leader. And this is somebody we could speak to whenever we could. I can't imagine that this hasn't just been the most difficult time in your life this this past month. It's been a very challenging time. But I gotTa tell you we watched you every night Rachel Even if he wasn't on he was watching so just know that that he appreciated you as much as you appreciate him. Oh that my heart swells Thank you for saying so. I WanNa talk to you tonight in part because I know that you've spoken with the Baltimore Sun recently about some of your own news about your own your own health and your own status but also. I believe that you've been doing some. I'm thinking about your own plans and the status of your husband's Seton. I just wanted to to invite you to share some of that with us so tomorrow I will announce that I will be running and for the Congress The seven Congressional district of Maryland. I believe very strongly That you know I have the background and the focus and the commitment and the ability to take the reins and to make a good run for the seat I thought right alongside Elijah for the last twelve years and we knew each other another ten years before that and so I've been on this path For fighting for the soul of our democracy for fighting for health care education education For a better America for all and so he wants he wanted me to continue this fight. And I'M GONNA continue this fight and run the race and prayerfully early win so you and your husband talked about this before his passing he was enthusiastic about the idea of carrying this. And trying to take this burden on for yourself. Yeah we you know. We've been discussing this for quite some time. Because he had been ill for quite some time and he had been pondering his future and what would happen up into the seat so about six months ago we were talking and he said you know I I really do think you should take this seat and so with that you know. He would've of expected of me and I'm going to continue the fight. The fact of the matter is is. I've been fighting all along. You know I've had a track record of working on issues. Like Social Security Medicare a healthcare and economic security and certainly technology. Even and. So you know I was in the forefront of the battle to take on George W Bush when he tried the privatize the system. I've been working hard in the trenches at every level of government to advance policies that help working families and so I am prepared and ready ready to roll up my sleeves and address. What Baltimore needs? Baltimore is a city of great potential but it has lopsided economic outcomes lopsided offsite healthcare outcomes a lopsided educational outcomes and the poorest people the Black and Brown population of the city and certainly surrounding areas are in need of somebody who's willing to launch what I call an inclusion revolution. Someone who's really really ready to tackle the the structural challenges that are facing the city and the surrounding areas. I believe that a better future as possible for Baltimore and so I'm looking forward to bringing everything that I got to make sure that we have a better future feature for the city and the region doctor comes. I wanted to ask you about this conversation that you had with the Baltimore Sun this week that you plan to have a preventative. Double Mastectomy This week which is a remarkable decision must be an incredibly momentous decision for you at the same time. You're making this huge decision about your future. Can you talk a little bit about why you chose to go a public with that decision and and how serious this is for you so let me just first say that this was scheduled before running for office was ever consideration before four Elisas health took a really bad turn for the worse he went with me to the doctor's appointment where I got a consultation about this option and he agreed and begged me several times before he passed away to prioritize myself. And so with that I decided to keep even though he passed away and even though this race is now before me I decided to keep my promise to him and I will keep this appointment on Friday where I will do this. I should tell you that my mother died of stage. Four breast cancer in two thousand fifteen. My sister was diagnosed with Stage two last year. She's my little sister diagnosed with stage. Two she had a double Selecta me. And now I WANNA get ahead of the curve and take the basically the bull by the horns and stopping in his tracks before it ever begins. So I'm GonNa do this the way I'm going to do. It is by moving forward one step at time one day at a time that being said I although it will take two to four four weeks in terms of recovery. I will be laser focused on making sure that I am active making sure that my campaign is strong. That I'm doing everything that I need to do to fundraise. And of course this focus on social media and the things that I can do to have a presence even while I'm not physically able to be out in the community Dr Mayer Rocky more. Cummings thank you so much for talking with us about about all these matters and stay in touch with us. We'd love to We'd love to see you to keep us apprised as you go through all these decisions. Thank you so much for being here. Ma'am thank you my for Congress Dot Com. Well done. We'll be right back. Stay with them when you see people lining up outside outside the US Supreme Court cases on the way the people who lined up today outside the quarter planning to stay all night. Tonight's they can get a seat inside the court tomorrow morning for Orel arguments over Dhaka. The Obama era program that protect seven hundred thousand young people in this country from being deported. The trump administration is try and and that program. They want to deport all the dreamers but lower courts thus far have rejected that trump decision as arbitrary and capricious and so the question now goes to the supreme in court one of the young dreamers. Martine Bataille Vidal the bus from New York to DC. With his mom today. He's one of the named parties in the case. That's going to be argued. He's he's GonNa be there tomorrow inside the court for arguments. He told the Associated Press today quote. I don't know what is going to happen. Whatever the outcome is? We know that we have fought hard for it and we will continue. Can you fighting. I'm trying to be positive in terms of governance. This case has potential to impact how far the president can go and rolling rolling back established policy of all kinds if this was done in an arbitrary arbitrary and capricious manner and the courts going to block him from doing so. That might mean a lot. In terms of other policies that were treated in the same way but in human terms in terms of what happens now for literally hundreds of thousands of young people in this country the supreme import case on Dhaka and the dreamers. Tomorrow it's as big as it gets not hearing scheduled to start at ten. Am Eastern tomorrow or all over it. Watch this space. That does it for US tonight. We will see you again tomorrow. The show we screen on MSNBC new meet the press that Chuck Todd Cast. It's an insider's take on politics. Twenty twenty election and more candid conversations with some of my favorite reporters about things. We usually discuss off camera. Listen for free wherever you get your podcast.

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