4 Episode results for "Michigan State University of Michigan"
Coronavirus, Medicaid work mandate, NRAV, GOTV, Detroits SotC. With Robin Erb, Kerry Ebersole Singh, Linda Campbell
"The presenting underwriter of the Michigan podcast is progress. Michigan providing a strong credible voice that holds public officials governments accountable in assists in the promotion of progressive ideas. Got The fever. That is something you know. The the news feed God Michigan Prepares for the day when the corona virus mix. It's Michigan debut as health. Experts are just to chill out and not panic over. The disease is your this. Is the Michigan. Podcast all about Michigan Policy and politics. I'm also org. I'm Christine. Bury the twenty eighteen. Democracy reforms passed by Michigan. Voters are having a big impact as we get ready for the state's presidential primary and the redrawing of congressional and legislative boundaries also impacting redistricting is a census. Count Will Michigan get fully counted. We'll talk with the states. Census SAR carrying Ebersol. Sing and as we approached primary day in Michigan some thoughts on South Carolina and the reawakening of the Joe Biden campaign along with the announcement of a massive. Get out the vote effort by the nation's biggest public employee union. We begin with the virus of crippled Wall Street. Shut down a lot of China and Italy and caused a run on surgical facemasks. No confirm cases of the current. Oh virus in Michigan but state officials aren't taking any chances to get an update on what the state is doing. I checked in with Robin Herbs. She leads the coverage of healthcare for Bridge magazine. Robin Hood. This has become your life the last few days. Even though we don't have any cases of the krona virus in Michigan everybody seems to be freaking out a how the state officials handling is. Are they ready? Now it's an interesting question If you think about it I think a lot of folks think first about what schools will do and what public health will do or hospitals. But there's so many agencies so many systems involved on Friday. The governor activated the Michigan Emergency Operation Center. Which brings a lot of these agencies together to coordinate offer. So you're talking you know you're talking closer contact between like public health and the schools and the different local health departments a lot of different agencies. So they can talk more quickly. React more quickly if krona virus does arrive in Michigan. What are some of the things that the state government can do what? What are the practical issues they have to deal with? If in fact we have an outbreak or do they start a lot depends on who gets affected. I on they're dealing with what con- what might happen Coming through the airport. We have a lot of passengers who have arrived in Michigan. Who let me be clear? They are not symptomatic. They are not sick but they've traveled to areas of concern. So we have you know About three hundred and fifty people right now and that number every day in Michigan who are self isolated for Corona virus for fourteen days and that means that local health departments for example are checking in on them during constant contact to make sure they don't get sick because it does take about fourteen days for the symptoms to develop at least. That's the current thinking you know. Part of this is that we don't understand exactly how Corona Virus Works Krona Virus family viruses been around for you know for ages but this new corona virus that they you know they just came up two months ago. We're still trying to understand how it works it. A lot of this will be handled by the local health departments but then there's funding questions. Their questions of of you know. Is there authority to close certain places if it becomes a pandemic? There's a lot of coordination here. There is a concern that they may run out of supplies. If there is in fact an outbreak. How serious is that concern? Well it's not super clear again. A lot depends on what kind of problem we have here. You know when the governor announced on Friday that she was opening this crisis center the chief medical executive did tell us that supplies they're limited. I think in in in most situations they would be fine. But depending on what the cases become that could be a real issue. And what we're talking about here. Mostly our supply for right now for health health professionals. So I know everybody's been panicking and trying to run out and get these masks. Which by the way are not recommended who were talking about the masks. That health professionals use to protect themselves. We're talking glove talking test kits. We're talking gowns. The kinds of things that front line responders will need you know. The other thing is testing the CDC out tough to different to the the different state health departments a couple of weeks ago but a kit only has a few hundred tests in it now. That may be fine if we only have a few cases here but if they're simply a pandemic that's when it becomes concerning you also talk with an infectious disease expert at Msu College of Pethick medicine and his advice basically was a Chil- do commonsense things but don't go crazy in. That's the thing you know. There's so much information about crony virus out there that it becomes almost overwhelming and confusing. There's a lot of bad information to but the good free. There's good news. Isn't this the best way? Your First Line of Defense is one. Just stay calm and to wash your hands. Wash them well in wash them alive. And then you know truly basic hygiene you know if if you are sick day home if you sneeze us all the proper precautions disinfect surfaces all of those things that we normally know about flu season. That's what you need to do right now when you're worried about corona virus both Michigan State University and the University of Michigan have very large populations of Asian students. A lot of students from China no at Michigan State University. Are they taking special precautions? Because they are such international Bekker's really and they have so many thousands of international students coming all the time. The three universities have been very concerned about students traveling back and forth. Of course they do. They have large study abroad program. So on Friday Wayne State actually suspended. It's spring break summer abroad programs. They had about eight programs And that affects about ninety students who were getting ready to travel to different areas Michigan State University of Michigan. They put out travel advisories. Awhile ago another all very concerned these these students can come back after. Let's say a study abroad or spring break. And who knows what they can. They can bring back to the student body. The strangest things. I've heard so far the discrimination. The people just jumping to conclusions. A friend of mine owns a really good Chinese restaurant and he says attorney his business just because people are afraid of all things Chinese. Unfortunately there is a lot of really bad information out there and there's a lot of information that's driven by this folks not knowing any better. And frankly folks being pretty phobic in some cases I've seen some pretty awful social media posts and they're scary and they're not faced on good information and we probably should wrap reminding people that despite what you read on the Internet. Drinking Bleach is not going to cure you of coronavirus or protect you and neither will eating animal dung or any of the other things that you hear the best ideas to go to the CDC website the World Health Organization website or here in Michigan the Michigan Department of Health and Human Services. Rovner vic you for joining us of the PODCAST and I guess it's a good time to say be well and you as well. Thanks so much for having me. Christina's was made very clear by Robin in our discussion. They're dealing with a lot of unknowns. Right now there's some precedent for having diseases of this kind become epidemic or pandemic in the state. But there's an awful lot of things they don't know like what corona virus really is how to deal with it other than they do know that in most cases it's not very serious just as something that you know. You don't WanNa mess with and they do not contagious. Yes so you know. Just in general corona viruses are very common. There are a number of them that humans have been dealing with for years. This one is a novel Corona Virus. Meaning that it's never been seen in humans before which I think is about the extent of what we know about it. This new virus. The proper name is coveted nineteen We don't know where it came from. We don't know everything about how it's transmitted. Let's talk about the politics of this. A little bit robin covered the substance of it. Of course our jobs of the politics which is anything he can trust. The governor's pretty measured response. Let's be prepared to the insanity in Washington where it was clear. The trump administration was really flailing. Did No it was doing. Yeah they you know. He comes out and he calls it a hoax hoax hoax hoax. And then he walks it back and says no no. This is not a hoax. This is very serious. He does it on the same day that his staff is still calling it a hoax. Meanwhile Wall Street is. I mean The top indexes are are down double digits. The Krona virus is going to have economic effects. And that's clearly trump administration's PR primary concern because of the economy is his ticket to reelection in his mind and so he has to say that it's a democratic plot as a democratic hoax. Of course is the George Soros actually spreading the virus and trump. Junior said that they would be the Democrats dream to have millions of people die from the corona virus. He's a total moron. He really easy. He wouldn't embarrassment to have him out there. Saying these ridiculous things but That's the way it is going. What's intriguing is that? There's a very related story on healthcare. Right now we're prepared especially Ken Ford. This disease but for tens of thousands of Michiganders the access to healthcare may be going down because once again. The Republican Party's declared war on the poor governor Whitman attorney-general nestled fighting back. What's this involve? There's a law put into effect It's Snyder's last year. I think that says if you want to get Medicaid you have to be working so if you fall under these work requirements. It actually goes into effect this year and in. May people will start getting notices saying. Look you have to be working if you want to maintain your health coverage and so governor? Whitman wants to suspend these rules for a couple of reasons one is that she certain that the law is going to be found unconstitutional. So it's just going to be a waste of time but also second and it's just you know it's not a very human thing to do but what I find intriguing about this is purely an ideological fight on the part of the Republicans and the Michigan Chamber of Commerce's leadership as well because the people who are caught up under these these work requirements are low wage workers who aren't going to be getting sick pay. If they end up being offered due to illness they are if they had to avoid a workplace due to concerns of transferring. An illness too vulnerable person. They have at home so even if you set aside the humanity of it. There's there's a huge potential for greater outbreak. If these work requirements go into play. I mean. They're going to go to work because they have no choice even if they're sick. Yeah and so. This is ideological for them just for the Republicans just to sit. They noted the governor and I I understand. They think that if you get distance suddenly you'll be dependent on a businessman's taxes for the rest of your life but the rules should be suspended at least until we know what's going on with. Kovic nineteen because this could actually spread things more and you know the Federal Reserve chairman is the one who came out saying the corona virus poses evolving risks economic activity. So let's just suspend these work requirements for now that people keep their healthcare and it not force them to be going to work in the event that there's a pandemic this is just going to make it work. These people are working with the public. A lot of them public facing could impact small businesses supply chains. It's just a bad idea. There are six hundred fifty thousand people who gained access to comprehensive health. Care as a result of the Medicaid expansion not all of them would be impacted by this work requirement but certainly tens of thousands would fall off the rolls and everyone of them poses a greater threat to having. This pandemic hit Michigan and really devastate. The state the best thing that you could do would be to wear a mask if you're coughing So that you help prevent transmit whatever it is you have Make sure you're washing your hands all the time but don't make a run on medical supplies keep soap and and I guess hand sanitizer around. Don't worry be happy. What can we do to make an impact in our community? We can share our knowledge be leaders for simply participate in the twenty twenty cents. A the census was our community to be counted accurately. That cow informed decisions that affect funding for hundreds of programs like Medicare daycare and arts education and the community comes together. Anything IS POSSIBLE FUTURE. Start you learn more at twenty twenty. Cents IS DOT Gov the every ten years count of Americans is happening. The Census Bureau's working overtime right now to count every person living in our country. He -ffective April first of this year. It's a massive undertaking with huge political and financial impacts. Michigan has a comprehensive effort to get everyone counted a drive his lead at the state level by carry ever sell saying I talked with her on Friday to get the status of Michigan's preparations for census. Day We are ready. All the departments are mobilized. They are putting posters up. At all state buildings they trained employees and are ready to help support the census ever. I would say even beyond that With a late appropriations last year were able to partner with Michigan Municipal League and Michigan Sleep Foundation Department within to offer select communities some grant opportunities so additional community support. Also on its way as well as a media of course worked to layer in some additional media starting march ninth. Full have additional billboards as well as he'd media across the state that will be focused on both a general audience and also tailored to specific communities that are traditionally hard to count. There was a lot of concern about general distrust in government and specifically distrust of perhaps how the trump administration would use the senses and a concern that that would depress the county. Are you running into that in the field? Is that going to be the problem that we'd anticipated hanging? Actually the biggest challenge that I see. It's folks don't understand or are maiming. Unaware of the importance of the sensor how that connects to them in their communities. That's what I'm I'm seeing most are and you know. There's thirty billion dollars at stake for our state and that helps fund and support fifty five programs That's an annual number so roughly that rate. Send a three thousand dollars of earth over ten years. Thirty thousand dollars and this. The census count is just one way we draw those other attacks. We've already paid back into our communities to support our community so that's wine huge piece obviously the congressional apportionment as well as a big deal and you know hopefully we are able to maintain our total congressional seats. We may be losing another one because we haven't been growing as a state. We have just less quickly as other states like Texas and North Carolina. That's primarily the the big piece that folks don't understand why we we do a census why we've been doing it Every decade since seventeen ninety. So that's what we're trying to build our awareness around in reading these statistics from previous censuses. I was actually kind of shocked. At the high level of non-participation in the census what factors attributed to what I know from the Research the Census Bureau has gone on as it relates to do a survey prepare ring to conduct a census and leading into the twenty ten cents as they surveyed folks. Do you plan on filling out your census form in twenty ten eighty five percent of people. Yes of course I do now. That takes ten percent hint of the application of actually filling up a census. What does that mean? The national average for self response is seventy six percent Now when they complete a sense census when the US Census Bureau complete census. They talk about the Self Response Period. And then they enumerate by door right by hand every address the attribute a number two when they finish the census they believe they have counted one hundred percent of the population. But we you know. We are aware that some people do still slip through the cracks as it relates to being counted. And that's for a variety of reasons and there's also over counts as well Folks that may help their kid in their household even though they may spend over fifty percent of the year in their college out so so yeah so it's rather complicated actually but I think our biggest challenges are twofold. Wine is letting folks building awareness around the importance. Also what is actually asked some offenses? There's only nine questions here in twenty twenty it's GonNa take ten minutes and a lot of folks will ask the Oser a long term. How long is it GonNa take and It's a really. It's another important point. I drive all night. It's going to be more convenient than ever to take. The census this year is the Census Bureau. Still hiring at this point. Oh yes absolutely And they are still under the recruitment numbers for the State of Michigan. So I would encourage anyone that is interested in making a few extra bucks or want to change up and have a new job. Apply at Twenty Twenty Cents Dot Gov Vac slash jobs. And that will get you to the online application. And they are they did have a backlog In terms of their hiring process but they are working through that and hiring as quickly as they can at this point and I think for the positions setting aside some of the other challenges around the twenty twenty cents in some of the cuts. The bureau took to the federal budget process leading into the census. We want to ensure that every position that is funded for the state of Michigan get spilled fire Michigander to be reaching out to their communities and ensuring everyone gets counted carryover salting. Thank you for joining us on the PODCAST amid the force. Be With you. Thank you take care in the twenty eighteen election. Voters overwhelmingly approved two major reforms in our democratic system proposal to ended partisan gerrymandering instead of legislators drawing their own districts and in effect picking their own voters the appropriately named group voters not politicians pushed to turn the power over to an independent citizens commission but for the Commission to work. People have to apply for to do the work and while you're one of the folks who've started voters not politicians so this guy be cool for you is like watching. One of your kids grow up. So what is the status of the Commission Project Right now? Well our child is growing up. But it's growing up. Kind OF UNEVENLY. Right now so far there have been about six thousand applications to be on the commission sent to the Secretary of State. They've processed about half of them and they do not proportionately represent the state of Michigan. They will be adjusted by an independent. Cpa firm so that they've pool that is selected is representative of the state demographically and in terms of geography. But right now it is really overbalanced. Forty three percent of the applicants are sixty five years or older and that kind of makes sense. Because you've got to take a year or two out of your life to serve on this commission it's a full-time Gig really pays pretty good. It's forty thousand dollar. Pay Annually but for a lot of people would mean interrupting their career so we have a lot of older people that are applying for it. It is overwhelmingly white eighty five percent of the applicants overwhelmingly male with sixty one percent so far and politically. Interestingly Enough Republicans are not applying invest numbers only fourteen percent of the three thousand that have been processed so far identifies Republicans more than double that thirty-five percent identifies Democrats and fifty one percent. Identify is unaffiliated. So if you know a Republican who's willing to serve the state and take a really interesting year to in their life to serve the public. Good get them to apply for the The commission the applications closed June thirtieth and the only qualification to be on the commission. And you have to be a registered voter in the state of Michigan. There are some who are disqualified because of their political activism including elected officials and former partisans candidates and folks like that it is designed to be voters not politicians deciding where these map lines get drawn and the second begged change was the passage of promote the vote initiative which made it easier to vote. Perhaps the most impactful change was giving everyone the right to vote by mail now. You don't need a reason to cast an absentee ballot. You can just say I want to for any reason at all including the old standby just because just because a good reason to do it I know here in Lansing where I live. The city clerk has been very aggressive in promoting absentee voting and as a result about three quarters of all votes are cast by mail now. This is a huge problem for the politicians that are running for office because they don't know when to send out there mailings they don't know when to. Pique their their promotion for their campaigns. In a lot of cases people that are running in the presidential primary a week from Tuesday. The votes are already cast alloy as for myself. I'm waiting until Wednesday. Kinda WANNA SEE. Who's still alive? After Tuesday. A lot of those votes have been cast. The same is true in California for Super Tuesday They're estimating in California that a lot of the votes have been cast but in Michigan where it is very easy now to vote by absentee ballot to do to your training room table. Most people I suspect if not in this election but certainly in the next couple of cycles will be voting from home and not all voting on election day. I think that's great. I see that absentee ballot. Requests are up by more than seventy percent across the state. So people are just embracing it. I know we got ours. shoutout Tobar Byron for helping me do that and I'll have more detail on on the numbers around absentee ballots in the show notes One of the things that's That's kind of interesting how this is going to be really logistically challenging for the clerks and it's been brought up in lansing. How are we going to help the clerks? Count All these absentee ballots because it's more labor intense It doesn't look like they're going to take any legislation to help them at least not before the primary obviously but It'll be interesting to see how how we solve those provinces. What do you think this presidential? Primary is a is a good dry run for the clerks in terms of how the general will be handled with all these absentee ballots. It is for a lot of them. Some of already experienced because of municipal elections. Although the numbers will be a lot larger I think the in refusing to give clerks the help. They need to allow them to start counting ballots before the polls close on Tuesday and at least begin the processing. I think it was a political because basically we only have a democratic primary. There is a Republican primary officially. But that's kind of a foregone conclusion and I think the Republicans would like to see the Democrats embarrassed in the primary election. And that's one of the reasons they just taking this up. Even though the bipartisan coalition of clerks are begging them please give us give us some help. Because we're just going to be overwhelmed with all these absentee ballots coming in for the primary. But you compare that with what's going to happen next November where we're GONNA have record turnout no question about it. It could be quite a nightmare for some of these clerks because they a lot of them. Don't have the high speed of tabulates to process these. All these ballots the come in and as the law. She's right now. The kids start until eight o'clock on election day and I saw that if you have have a ballot where maybe you spilled coffee on it or something. That ballot has to be recreated by the Clark before it can be counted. Yep that a one other thing to people who have already voted and have since discovered that their candidate is no longer running. You can go to your clerk's office have your ballot spoiled and cast a new ballot for somebody. Who's still in the race in Tom? Steiner and just dropped out over the weekend. We've had a few other dropouts. I think we've got eighteen people on the ballot and we're really only down to about a half dozen candidates so if you voted for somebody who is no longer running you can do it all over again. And if you haven't voted if you're not registered to vote you can revert to vote on election day. Just go to your clerk's office sign up at cast your ballot right there. I don't think we'll see all the dividends of this Promote the vote initiative this year but this is just amazing. And it's no wonder to me at all I will why. The Republicans fought every one of these reforms every step of the way so the Republicans happy is the Service Employees International Union. The largest public employee union in the nation. They have earmarked one hundred fifty million dollars on the twenty twenty elections and they're focused on getting out infrequent voters to the polls and basically. That's that's to the benefit of Democrats and they are targeting eight battleground states Colorado Florida Minnesota Nevada Part B. Nevada. Be careful with get very upset out there. Pennsylvania Virginia Wisconsin and Michigan. And they're going to be looking especially at infrequent voters from the African American and Latino communities in those eight states. That could be a game changer. With one hundred and fifty million dollars working to get those people to the polls. Yeah that's that's a big investment in a very targeted community. They've been in Detroit since the fall. I like very much their strategy of staying out of the primary and just focusing on building a field operation for the general Two million members there's no way they could have consensus on a primary candidate. No point in doing that so they just have single united and more effective purpose for the general. I think that's great. I think this is going to be really helpful. The strategy makes a lot of sense to it can be argued pretty convincingly that low voter turnout in those communities is what beat. Hillary Clinton certainly in Michigan Wisconsin. And maybe Pennsylvania's well Clinton basically underperformed Barack Obama seriously in the major urban areas and voter suppression part of it too And making it harder for people to vote and are discouraging people from voting. That's all a part of how Donald Trump became president almost by accident. And it'll go away. Voters know that they can more easily vote by mail and register same day. Okay ten for some quick takes I the hamlet of Michigan's congressional delegation finally makes up his mind Christine. Thomas yes fred. Upton finally made a decision. Apparently realising that his district is competitive. And he's the best chance to keep it in Republican hands. That is not what he said. Though why he said was that his first grandchild was born last month and he's running again to make the future better for his new grandkids which is nice since he's been screwing over everyone else's kids since the late eighties But twenty eighteen was his most competitive election. Ever I believe and I fully expect John Hopefully to give him a run for his. Massive amounts of money This year whole shooting on the fundraising as well up in doing better with the PAC money coming in but in terms of vendors contributions holy spectacular job. I was surprised when I read about Upton decision that that he was running but this would be his eighteenth term in the House of Representatives. My God he's been around forever. Okay somebody who used to be a Republican but as an independent our friend Justin Amash from grand rapids. He is swimming against the tide on a bill that passed almost unanimously in the House of Representatives. And that was bill to finally make lynching a federal crime that bill passed four hundred ten to four with Justin. Amash one of the four. I mean the guys if nothing else he is consistently weird. That's the thing about Justin he votes against the US and people who don't really know about him saying Oh you know this is terrible. Well whatever you think about the actual bell and personally I support it because it takes a moral stand against this awful act of racist violence. Justin is really consistent on constitutional Choosen he explained. It's already a crime. Handle by the state creating a federal crime for it obscures. It you know who is responsible for what so. It's not about the moral stance to him. It's about the practicality of the whole thing on the other hand if if you can support something like a second amendment sanctuary resolution or that kind of thing which does nothing but send a message than certainly should be able to support a bill that makes them moral statement and says by the way this is. This is what we're going to do about it. If you act against it you know it also serves as a reminder there were more than four thousand lynchings most of them the victims being African Americans. That are very very said history. Disa- horrible number. Well An and horribly tortured before the lynching just awful every lynching started out with somebody being physically tortured also under quick ticks. This week there's another ballot proposal underway. This one would get a graduated income tax in the twenty twenty ballot. They just launched from Fare Tax Michigan. Which is a group I had not heard of? I don't know who is funding it but I do know they've only got about one hundred days to collect roughly six hundred thousand signatures. It's one hundred twenty nine days from today actually and they need four hundred twenty five thousand fifty nine valid voter signatures which means really need to collect. Six hundred thousand take errors into account unless they've got a whole pot of money coming from somewhere they're not going to be able to make it. That is a huge huge huge number. Yeah I I don't know how they're going to do it. I don't know what kind of support they have. I think it's great but I don't think it's going to be. I mean I just don't know how they succeeded this election. I would totally support it. Obviously I supported a graduated income tax from a long time. I'm intrigued by the name fare tax. I think he has been referred to as a fair tax before but for decades the day name fare tax has been used by the people who want to do away with all taxes except for the Sales Tax Libertarians. Like that a lot I find it interesting. Rich steadily causes a massive tax hike proposal. Will it might be for him because rich makes an awful lot of money but for most michiganders' this proposal would mean lower state taxes. It this is another thing where I think it's driven purely by ideology. We are losing companies. He said he said specifically at risk if we do this graduated income tax were at risk of losing businesses to Texas and Florida who wouldn't have tax system like this but we're already losing businesses to other states specifically Texas due to infrastructure duo security for example says they can't expand Ann Arbor because they don't have what they need. They're so they're looking out of state. I don't really feel like riches in touch with those kinds of things before we leave our quick take segment. Frawley should reflect at least a little bit. I don't what's going on in the presidential sweepstakes. We're going to be voting in Michigan next week for President of the United States at least on the democratic side. Joe Biden is alive and I don't know how well he is but at least for now. It seems like it's a three way race or two and a half way race between three men who are seventy seven seventy eight and seventy eight years old. Bernie Sanders and Mike Bloomberg seventy eight Joe Biden seventy-seven and everybody else is becoming pretty irrelevant. Tom Steiner dropped out as a result of his poor showing in South Carolina after he spent a small fortune a large fortune. There and did very poorly. It would appear that people to judge and Amy Klobuchar are on life. Support it on the verge of having desired vote because their campaigns are hopelessly Doomed what do you make all this you know with Barack Obama. Being the outlier. I I think that you have to have a very long life a very long career to be able to get to this point where you can be a contender for president of the United States or you have to have a family name. That's part of it but it's disappointing that so many like like what's done in the others. Who could be contenders if their message? Just I don't know if it reached more people. I think the problem was that the money got split up so badly that they couldn't run competitive campaigns. It's so expensive to run for president. Especially when you've got to billionaires spending money like there's no tomorrow and that they have unlimited resources which they basically do. He Got Mike Bloomberg. Who hasn't even run in an election yet and he spent close to a half a billion dollars of his own money. A star has spent over a quarter of a billion dollars of his own money. How do you compete with that? When you're Pete Buddha judge from South Bend Indiana unless you get back into conversation about public funding of elections. I don't see it ever. Changing Bernie had his movement and he has been consistent over years and he had been on a look how long he was on. Thom Hartmann just taking questions from the public before he ever ran for president. A Tom referred to him as America's senator because he would get on the phone every Friday and just take questions from the public and explain everything so people knew Bernie and he has built his movement up around that Joe Biden. We all know lifelong you know career in public service Bloomberg billions. I don't know how anybody else could go up against that wall of will one way to do it. The last few Democrats who were elected president were two of the greatest public speakers of our time. Barack Obama and Bill Clinton no matter what you think of them politically and I like them both politically but the fact remains they were fabulous speakers and they could get a crowd going with the height of their rhetoric and none of these current candidates has those rhetorical skills. I think that a Bloomberg is actually the the smoothest so to speak. Bernie's just always yelling at me and Joe Biden Gaffe machine. It's really an interesting contrast between the three of them with Bloomberg. You've got somebody who's got a lot of positions in his past that. Do not sit well with Democrats during his time as mayor of New York the fact that he is supported both financially and politically people. Like Lindsey Graham and Pat Toomey folks like that very conservative. Republicans and Rick Snyder. For that matter he helped get rick. Snyder elected what I find. Ironic would that even though he dumped a whole ton of money into hope helping Rick Snyder get reelected the guy who lost that election mark showers now supporting Bloomberg. Hey I don't it's it's nasty business A lot of his investments were strategic. There was a really good and long threat on twitter about how each investment he made was due to a business decision or a political decision that he made and it was a way to get heat off of him. And that's why he's had money go to so many places like Hayley Stevens Amberg Snyder. And I you know I can embedded in the show notes. I can't remember all the details but it was really really well done and well thought out. By the time I was done reading it I just was so with money and also I wanted more money but the other thing. That's intriguing about these three candidates only one of them's a lifelong Democrat. Bloomberg has been everything. He's been an independent he's been a Republican Bernie. Sanders has always been an independent never identified as a Democrat. Even though he caucuses with the Democrats Joe Biden's the only one who could step a member of the Democratic Party since the days of Franklin Roosevelt and the thing about Joe is that then they take that and they say okay establishment establishment but in my opinion you know. Joe's record it over time and some of it has been attacked and they've been like legit attacks through the Lens of today but he has worked with the Democrats for his whole life on top of that. I I really think that because of his record in public service he's the one who best understands the world. Today is the one who can best help us. Get into a better position now. I'm not comparing ideology by any means like his ideology with Bernie's or Elizabeth or anything like that but his record of public service the positions he's been Bannon. Senator Vice President. He's the one who best understands. Our position in the world is going to be a fun convention is going to be a brokered convention and is going to be nasty. Yeah it's going to suck but this is the you know this is the dirty work that you do. This is the making the sausage right. Michigan's largest city is usually on the cutting edge of all the challenges facing our urban areas in Michigan. But the city is definitely on an upswing highlighted by major investments by General Motors in new and upgraded manufacturing facilities but a grassroots organization. Says the story of Detroit can be seen as a contradiction? It's the best of times. And it's the worst of times as illustrated mayor Mike Duggan state of the city address in just the last few days for this week's work in progress segment. We're joined by Linda Campbell. Who RUNS DETROIT? People's platform with her thoughts on what the mayor said and say Linda Campbell. It seems as though were talking a tale of two cities in Detroit. The mayor obviously focusing a lot on the positives things like the GM investments especially That are certainly important for the city and a lot of the other investment. That's going on but also there's an awful lot in terms of problems faced by the residents of Detroit. Beginning with property taxes even overcharge six hundred million dollars in property taxes and the mayor really says Gee. That's it's terrible but that's about as far as we went that's true. I was sitting with a group of residents here in the city of Detroit. We were watching the mayor's State of the city. Something that we do here at the Detroit People's platform each year because we want to get a sense of how the mayor's message is being received by everyday detroiters. We all know that. The folks who gather in that space for the actual address by enlarge or pretty much the hand picked folks Members his administration folks who have an investment in his leadership so as activists. We want to hear from the re- Dave detroiter. How's how's the mayor is same resonating with you and there was an audible. Gasps in the row at the mayor's almost of handed response about essentially bugs. There's nothing we can. Do you know all that money has already been spent an redirected to schools and I think he named a couple of other investments. institutional investment. But I can tell you that did not send well with the detritus in that in in our room in our Gavin many of them who have been homeowners and property owners in this city fifty sixty years some of them are third generational property owners in the city of Detroit and many of them like myself. I'm a property owner. I watched the value of my home. Plummet and you what I did was. I just put my head down an every every month wrote that you know pay that mortgage you know given question because I was committed to remaining here in the city and whatever it took little. Did I know you know I was being over assessed? I don't think this is going to be something. That goes away quickly. There are numerous efforts across the city. of or residence organizing Looking at legal options Many are Go into directly appealed to city council. About what some of the opportunities may be to make them whole again so yeah. There's there's going to be continued pressure in this coming year round. This issue looks took those down the ground level. We look at these things so often from the thirty thousand foot level and say Oh yes. Six hundred million dollars. That's a lot of money. Yada Yada Yada but what does it mean to the average? Homeowner what does it mean to you? what what is it costing you and what does it mean in terms of the prospects that you'll stay in the city that's the issue for many of us. The folks who are most directly impacted are the folks who remained in the city. We're the ones who stayed through the tremendous downturn of the great recession. What the The over tax say should means for many of us is that you know folks struggled to pay those taxes what we know as the over assessment actually impacted those folks at the lower income bracket whose homes were valued the lesson so it's a tremendous burden on those of us who are committed to staying in the city and helping this. Sydney drive and and be prosperous again. The idea that For many of us don't get the city services that we think we deserve. We don't have the kind of community infrastructure Like recreational centers Harksen libraries. It just caused into question who's being served by the way. Our municipal finances are being managed by the current administration. How much of this do you lay on? State government and particularly the legislature which year after year after year is under-funded revenue sharing. It really starved. Not JUST DETROIT. But cities all across Michigan. I'm no municipal finance expert. But I do understand that with repeated. Legislators that have not seen a value of fair taxation beer-tax practices sharing of revenue. That it's harm not only Detroit but it's harmed cities across the state of Michigan. I speak directly about the experience of detroiters given that we are the state's largest municipality And the Han. That it's brought about twice but yes. I acknowledged that this is a structural issue. A lot of this fog can be laid on our Michigan. Legislators the other ongoing crisis of many actually the detroiters have had to deal with have been shut offs in the water system. Obviously you can't have much of a city if you don't have a reliable water supply. What progress is being made to deal with this problem? Which has been going literally for years? I have worked with Many other advocates Those who who taken strong leadership position on addressing this issue water shown up both through the lens of affordability right now. Many of our residents complained that the rate searches way too high and also to the lands of what happens when you disconnect water services for thousands of households and witness set. What's so public health impact? I would say that although the administration talks about the water assistance program many of the advocates who spend lots of time a working with families Interfacing with the leadership at the Detroit Water Department. They will say that. That program is inadequate and so right now. We just recently learned that. The governor denied the request put forth by several of the major advocacy groups including the ACLU to declare a public health Emergency here in the city and Restore Water shut offs and caller moratorium. So right now. In light of the announcement that came out from the centers of Disease Control. Many of us are wondering. What does that say or our families who you're in Detroit. Many of whom live without running water routinely when the Centers for disease control is her moaning a very common sense prevention approach around the Corona Virus Mendez to wash your hands and to clean surfaces in your home on a regular basis. Now were wondering will do. We have a whole class. Some families those who were unable to pay for water will be excluded from that kind of prevention effort so As we speak folks are trying to sort of a think about ways to revisit. This conversation with the Governor Raimondo. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you for joining us on the PODCAST and we will keep tabs on. Not only what you're doing now but also following the Renaissance of Detroit. There's a lot of good things that are happening in the city. It's just the the progress is excruciatingly slow and a lot of these issues. Well that's it for this week's podcast. Our thanks to carry ever sauce thing robin herb and Linda Campbell for being part of the discussion for more information on this week's topic head over to Michigan PODCAST DOT COM and so. Does your comments complaints suggestions. And even instant cooking tips visit. Google email machine m. i. Podcast G. Dot Com. Thank you so much for joining us and giving us your time.
Everything You've Ever Wanted to Know About Zirconia (DHP283)
"The organization is so important in all facets of your dental office. This goes for office systems as well as your clinical systems. Now there are a ton of systems for organizing your interest but our friends at Zirk. Make It easy for you to pick. Exactly what's right for you sir? Cast a process that they call Zoey that stands for Turks organizational box efficient. They send a big box full. They're different instrument organization options. To your off you get to try it all out. Snap tops on TUB. Put cassettes in your own sterilizer trial your instruments in whatever you like but the real secret sauce is the product and efficiency consultant that Cirque provides you take for instance Britt. She's one consultant. That will help you with Zombie process. She's got twenty three years of experience as a dental assistant and she's fantastic at visualising how to improve the Organization of practices existing setup. Britney's passionate about helping clients become proficient the best part of all. This Zombie is a free service. It doesn't cost you anything to try things out and get some help from a product and efficiency. Consult go check out the Zombie process at dental hacks dot com slash. Zip that's the Ob and if you do as ob consultation by April seventeenth twenty twenty. You'll be in the running for three hundred dollars Amazon Gift Card. You can find details on the website at Dell Dot Com zirk because time is everything. This is the dental x podcast. Podcast created by dentists for dentists. Now sit back. Relax your about to be hacked. Dental hack nation. Welcome to episode two hundred eighty three. That's two eight. Three of the dental hacks. Podcast MY NAME IS ELLEN MEADE. Hey there I'm Jay ups so Jason Has Corona Virus. I just wanted everyone to know that he's not dead yet. So that's good. I did not know. That's what corona virus did to a person. I didn't know that I know that that Nisha Wild Steph. Did you know that Ed I didn't know? So here's the thing about a week and a half ago. You and I released a short where we were sort of goofing around about the Corona Virus. And how everyone had lost their mind. I think both of US realized today that it's pro- probably a little bit more serious than we were thinking at that point. So if I'm not mistaken the Hinman meeting which I think was supposed to start tomorrow was just cancelled. A bunch of dental meetings a bunch of big meetings bunch of gatherings all over the place have been canceled for fear of the spread of Corona virus. So we're looking down the barrel of kind of a weird time. So how are you feeling about that? Jason I feel excited. You know expensive but La Toilet paper today not so much that I'm worried about the virus. I'm worried about everybody's GonNa Freak out by all the paper and towns. I know right a walking around with a cranky but for the next so I have a I you. You met Bart at Ds World couple years ago. My best friend Bart. He doesn't listen to podcasts organs. Anything I fucking wanted to about. Basically anyhow he is a proper he is he is like waiting for these apocalypse in he stockpiles toilet paper he really does and tomato sauce. That's He tomato sauce. Yeah so when everyone else has sore in Nasty Bottoms. He will not. He'll be soft and comfortable. That's a that's a picture that will haunt your dreams. So Yeah we've got a big stuff coming. It looks like I. I've been thinking a lot about it and I think here I'm less worried about the actual virus. I am worried for frankly My Wife's parents and my parents both fall into that age group where they're saying their more susceptible you know the Over sixty or whatever so I worry a little bit about that I'm more worried about economy. I'm more worried about like what's happening. How how everything's Kinda going crazy with the economy? And I. I don't know I'm not sure if I'm quite ready to lean into the chaos but I'm thinking about it. We do live on a farm that you could Horses let's be. Let's be honest if worst comes to worst man? I could eat the horses if I could catch up to him. I think I could probably do that. Take them out at the means. Go Yeah I'm not worried about the Zombie apocalypse aspect of it as much as you know. I don't know I I don't know enough to even know what okay. So for. Instance Michigan State University of Michigan Central Michigan University. Which are three state? Universities in Michigan. Have all canceled classes. They've all gone to online. They're gonNA finish their semesters online and this does beg the question if they can finish this semester online. Why do they have buildings? Why why why do universities even have buildings for cranial? So that's what they're doing in. Maybe that's smart but if we know that that's where like the states are pushing and actually we just had But a lot of stuff being canceled the questions winning schools. I was listening to Joe Rogan. That's woman and yet epidemiologist epidemiologists infectious disease doctor on and he was saying. Don't cancel schools. He said that that children are not affected by this disease as much. And he's saying you say the the effect on the economy of counseling schools and and really pulling people out of the system that need to be there to take care of their kids might be more damaging than that's that's an interesting thing right so what you're saying is if the kids don't go to school that takes one parent caretaker caregiver like what do you do the kids then at home if mom or dad or both are supposed to be at work so that is one thing that. I've heard the same like I just saw the. Ncaa tournament is going to be played without an audience too. So they're they're trying to keep large groups from from forming here. That's just interesting and I know that it's it's really too early for us to know how this is GonNa Affect stuff but it is definitely literally almost like a switch flipped today in in like dental facebook where people like. Yep this is this is something we're probably you have to deal with so I'm and he was and it was. It was interesting. I mean Joe. Rogan seems to have a lot of measured people on there. That that he really distills the tries to distill out the facts. It seems like And that guy was saying that you know. A lot of people are waiting for the warmer weather to come and kind of cancel this out and he was saying. There are some versions of of Corona viruses across the world that are flourishing in like Saudi Arabia year round Notoriously a warm place. Yeah and Sir. So that people are thinking that that that is gonNA come. Cancel this out. And he said that that may not be the case. This could be for months and months Until things etcetera it out so I guess my thing is instead of trying to freak everyone out. I think everyone everyone's probably been living this. We got we. Don't quite know it's coming. It should be interesting and we'll try and all try and keep on top of kind of what the dental world is doing. My guess is some some places are going to be. You know. I don't know I don't know what to expect. It's interesting though it's a it seems historic. I don't remember a time where we were actually discussing this stuff. I don't remember a time when I couldn't go and get toilet paper whenever I wanted to be. Honest comes down to is just. It's pretty sad and then that's that's the stock market is kind of dropping so quickly because they just had you know realization that that that could happen and I think I think we just don't really have a lot of solid information to go on until everyone's making their best. Guess which is what you and I are doing but I guess I'll just say to listeners. We'll try and keep on top of it as much as we can. So we're not I guess more than anything. I'M GONNA try not to say anything that's completely dumb and completely false. I'll try. I'll do my darndest to do that. We'll see nice now anyway al. Yeah that's exactly right so anyhow we got that going and then this this literally just happened and I'm not going to say too much at the moment but apparently I will be hiring coming up. I'm going to be hiring. It looks like probably for hygiene position in. That was not something I was expecting to have to do which is also interesting considering the timing but I'm curious what people are doing for hiring any listeners. Any hygienists in the central Michigan area. That WanNa work with an incredibly smart and wonderful. We'll hear you feel free to drop us a line at Info dental hacks you. I see what you did there. I see what you did there but I just. I haven't really had to hire in a while and I feel like I'm kind of out of the loop like what I know that depending on where you are hiring his like were pretty well employed in the United States. Like there's there's so it's it's like we don't have so many people that are looking. Yeah until now until right this moment. Everyone's been doing. What have you done it then? Happy People it's coming. That's right that's right. What have you done for hiring like? What kind of have you have you done facebook? Have you done like Ziprecruiter? Have you done and is there? Anything really didn't work or did work for you mean in the past. I've done craigslist and then I'll post dot net and which kind of seem to be the same. The usual suspects over and over again Sure this Reasonably trying to hire an assistant so we had an interview. That was supposed to come in on Monday. Didn't show up so yet it's just it's a different world. I say no on that person. I'm GONNA say that person probably is a no you come back. Fire you into your face. It'd be the awesome iffy job so I could go. Nope defied yeah. It's it's tough out there in the in the in the world of hiring people these days But we've been using indeed here recently and that seems to have garnered the most Cv's resumes that we can take a look at usable leads. Yeah Yeah I was. I was the person that put the rice in the bowl at AAA and I just want to be a dental assistant. I really loved now. I've gotten in the past when I've done certain online once I've gotten a lot of that and you're you're like okay. I can't I can't take a risk on someone. I would take a risk on someone if I knew them like an F. I felt they really had an aptitude for people. But I'm not taking a risk on someone that I don't know like like just someone who who says they really liked teeth like if I don't know man I'm struggling because I'd love to be able to hire someone that I know something about in. In the last time I hired hygienists it was it was a long time ago in what I ended up. Doing was first off in locally. We have a hygiene school in town in so we typically have more hygienists than there are jobs so typically you're able to find people because there's just a lot of I mean they're graduating people every year and they're looking for work out there in the field and you just Mur a thing. Is that what I did was? I had people come sub like I would bring so they would kinda working interviews as subs. I would have them on and they kind of knew that it was a working interview but it was legal Alan. I don't know but is it like. Is it any less legal for for I? I didn't I didn't ten ninety nine. Am I paid them like sobs? I don't know man. Here's the thing I worked. I worked with a lot of people and it was fun to meet them. It was hard to know when you're hiring someone. You don't really. It's really hard to know what's right person. I'm just I'm kind of in the beginning stages of all that so if anyone the dental hacks nation has great ideas of the best way to hire good people or even man even to get the word out like what's your best thing. Have you found like have you found that indeed is amazingly good? Is it best to talk to someone at your local hygiene school is it? I don't know I'm 'cause I haven't done this for a while and I know we've talked a lot about it but I haven't really had to do it until now I have to actually think about doing it. Not Super Looking forward to that but So there you have it and you've had a lot of people have struggled with this so it's kind of. It's kind of a constant struggle. I think employment stuff very much some some years. Is this past this past twelve years. Have been terrible on the other hand. In in a pinch as a sub. You haven't even been married to someone who actually come in and do hygiene not mistaken that she hates every living second of it and Well there is no. I'm not married to someone who could do that. I have a twelve year old. Who might be willing to try? I don't know that he's he's not really licensed. Maybe I won't mention that made me so I gotta to figure that thing out to not really looking forward to that. I thought I know it is what is being. We'll figure it out so we happen to talk to a guy that some people may have heard of before his name. Dr Mike Tola He's been on the show multiple times. He's one of my favorite guests because he's an amazing speaker and You know what I like about him. He's nice to us. That's why like bottom. He's the kind of guy where you're like. He's so good on stage and he's so good at speaking so good stuff here. There's no reason that he should be nice to you. Know he's he's such a big deal that there's no reason for but yet he is. It's amazing how that works so we talked with Mike again he was. He was one of the he kicked ass at voices energies. Your he was really good. He was the first speaker in the morning on Saturday morning and was just amazing. Just really good. I mean he always says but he really he really supports the voice of Israel. Here we kind of in the middle of sorted talk about voice it industry and what it means to him so. I really liked talking with him. But I- Jason. I sort of agreed that I have to tell you. I do a large majority of my run of the mill crown and bridge INS Konia. I've just become really fond of the material. I know a lot of people have I. There's some people that really hate it. There's some people that love it but I've really gotten gotten into it and I have to say Mike was kind of Instrumental I would say in getting getting full contours coney into innovate because he was at glide. Well when they develop Brookshire so he's definitely the guy to talk to you about this and that's essentially what we did. We took questions from people in the dental hacks nation everything you ever wanted to know about zirconium. And we through Mike and he came through like the champion that he is so. We talked a lot about zirconium. Did you did you feel like you learned something when you talked to Mike Data always do? He's not just a pretty face is here. I want you to. I want you to check on my my word count in this interview. See How many words that I got. It was Jason was a little tired. Maybe I don't know I know I talked a lot. I'm sorry dude it's hard. It's hard to get in hard wedged yourself in between the two between between he and I you're right man that's probably between. That's a lot to ask that is that yeah sorry dude. Sorry man plus. I'm kind of fan boy of Mike too so you can. You can like figuratively here. Throwing the elbow to keep Jason. Out of the conversation. Don't worry about him. No pay attention to Jason. You a good sport. I tell ya so. We talked about everything everyone know about. Konia is it too strong Israel. Konia too strong Jason. You think they're going to strong. We should use much weaker stuff. Yeah I MAKE BRIDGE MATERIAL MARSHMALLOWS FLOUR. Slurry let it dry on the teeth. Yeah and then you can Polish it a little bit. It'll be good be good tasting. Bread breath tastes like bread. All the time that's cool. I like that in sort of sits in their rotting a little bit. I like them. We talked about. We talked about the proud reaching talked about. Really Paints a picture. We talked about the preparation. We talked about adjusting polishing cementing. We talked about everything you ever wanted to know about their Konia. So brace yourself people it is everything you know about their coney with Dr Mike Daytona happy sink. Hack Day wait would you say no I did? I said Happy Saint Hockey's from our friends at Yappy Saint Hack Day is a very special base especially for our friends at Yappy. Everyone knows that. Yappy are the paperless people in a lot of times. In a lot of yappy offices patients will input their information in an IPAD and it goes directly into their practice management software because gap is awesome for Saint. Hacky Day this Tuesday. The seventeenth of March Yuppie is giving away an IPAD. We're going to pick a winner or Saint Hockey's Day on the seventeenth in all you have to do is like or comment on the thread with the Saint Hockey's puppy and you'll be registered to win a free. I gotta go to the dental hacks nation and like or comment. The happy Saint Hockey's Day post there. Hey will see their. Yep He's going to give away a free ipad and you should have a fantastic Saint Patrick's Day Yuppie. It's a funny name. But it's serious software dental HACKS NATION. Welcome to another interview segment of the dental podcast joining me as always my stalwart companion. Dr Jason Lipscomb. What's going on Jay Phillips? Hello everybody so. We have the pleasure. The joy the honor of I think this might be your third or fourth or fifth. Time on the PODCAST. Dr Mike Daytona in the House. Mike how are you doing? I'm doing great and I it. I've done it multiple times with you. Guys this is the first time I've been able to see your faces. Of course I've mentioned person before but I like this. I like this interactive. This feels a lot better. This doesn't feel like the disembodied kind of recordings of before where you can't see the base. Yeah except we're kind of ugly. There's that like I you know we we liked to. We're always kind of a disappointment. Live really I think we sound like we'd be much more handsome. You certainly do. I feel like J. Lips. It's what you see is what you get and I feel there's a consistency there but you you you're golden rugged baritone you definitely expect somebody six-foot-seven in the expected. Anthony Robbins Robbins. Almost kinda thing. Yeah yeah and what a huge disappointment what I've decided. I think I'm GonNa Start Smoking now too because I want to bring the voice. I want to do the voice a little bit. Better boy from Michigan Earth Right. That's right so mike just showed us this this spectacular like I don't know if it's a splinter cast or something he's in right now Mike his head he's a he's convalescing right. Now I think is the word we would use after a surgery. I want to hear about what what in the world's going on. Well the the very short stories I fell in a hole and I really don't want to go into a lot of detail. Visits a story in and of itself. It was about eleven. Pm At night. And I almost got hit by a car. Walking down the street having construction they stepped into a three foot hole without knowing it. I threw my right arm out and that hit and my head a- both I dislocated my shoulder during the summer and then tried to Rehab. It wouldn't get better so I had rotator. Cuff surgery is. I'd completely torn. My gets state. Board completely torn superstar Titus attendant and partially tore my impersonates than toward the Labor came off of the Glowing articulate surface of the Scapula so had to have all that repaired and when they do it the surgery they put you under. They use general anesthesia so they used propofol Which is awesome my head that for the first time for my colonoscopy and I know why Michael Jackson was addicted to this. It's it's just It's nice yeah it's just now you're gonNA flip a switch and be unconscious half a second late. Yes and then wake up too. I have those kind of a star. You know dreaming about a heavy heavy petting zoo and my backyard like Like he used to help now and so they make you unconscious so the weird thing is you you get this relationship with your orthopedic surgeon who's GonNa Charge like twenty nine thousand dollars. Just actually saw the the bill for this In case you want to compare it to how much a crown is by the way this is these kind of implants dental implants. But that's A. That's another lecture together so you you meet your surgeon. You have three or four appointments and then at the surgery like forty minutes before the surgery or thirty minutes before you meet your anesthesiologist for the first time some random doctor who walks in and introduces himself. Yeah and this is the guy who's who literally pull poultry ticket. He's pulled your ticket like you. Just you were assigned to him. There is little to see yelp reviews. I didn't get to have a conversation with him. He just walks in and gives his name. And I'm like okay. And then you know he starts with the little ad van. Then you start. Breathing oxygen to profuse your lungs. Then he hits you at the propofol and you're under then he hits you with the Sucks Neil coaling. So this is what paralyzes all the muscles in. Your body now is about ninety seconds to be able to intubate you and keep you alive this guy. You met thirty minutes ago is now. Yeah so what? He's nowhere advising all the muscles for your ability to be able to break. He scraped my mandibular Torus with the Lorenza scope going. I'm still waiting for that to heal because I'm sure he's never really seen like Toro. Who knows what they are but really that all went. Well I'm alive and I'm here so props to him for that but the other part is in order to give you less propofol. They do a nerve block so they do. What's call an inner scaling? Break Your plexus nerve block and so they go in it's around the level of C. Three so you they used to always do this on you while you're awake because they wanted to make sure that your shoulder in your arm were totally numb for but this guy says to me said most of my patients like to go to sleep. I and then I do it. So they don't have to tolerate this needle being stuck in their neck and I'm like Oh okay. Well I thought you had to be awake for it. And he goes now you know. They basically how they guided in. Is they take an ultrasound. So they're looking through your skin at the break. Your flex is coming down. And that guides the needle it's like when I had an Arthur Graham with my m. r. I. On the shoulder they used to see T. Scan to get the needle in the right position. And I'm like you guys are whistles all day long as Dennis. Were looking for that inferior Bieler using like hard and soft tissue landmarks trying to imagine picturing are cadaver from thirty five years ago they're cheating they're using C. T. Scans they're using ultrasound the needle that he uses for the block sends electrical pulses down it so when he gets close to the break. You'll pick your arm starts flopping around so know they're just cheating left and right. The point is the block didn't work. He missed the block and so what I woke up from surgeon could feel everything and which is good because the pain never got worse you know. They gave me some pilot and But it didn't work and so as I thought about it over the next. Well it kind of it didn't work at all my arm but two hours later my neck and my year were insanely anesthetized and then an hour after that it dripped onto my frantic nerve and I can only breathe from like my lung on my left side and I thought I was dying and so like the surgeon like dying Explai- I was at I can only get three words out before I get winded. Unlike the three hundred that I usually get out in between and so he missed the block. And I've realized this was a four three and a half weeks ago. The surgery and I realized it's really freed me up and I can't wait. I used to be embarrassed when I would miss blocks. I used to feel super guilty because I'd give a couple blocks on a patient. They weren't numb and you had to send them home. They took a couple of hours off work now. We can't do these two crowns but now I'm going to be able to look at them next time. I miss a block and go. You know what this this happened to me too. And the guy was using ultrasound to find the nerve and he was sending electrical pulses down the needle. Were just doing our best to kind of go by averages of where yours is it. It's freed me it's I. I will no longer feel guilt and shame about missing block. Is this highly trained anesthesiologist with all this technology? Missed IT ON ME. And he can miss it on me with all that technology. Of course we're GONNA mission on a patient. I can't wait to share that story go. Hey match happens even if we were able to use the ultrasound to find our way back to the earth which should be kind of cool but you can also say well. How will you breathing right now? So yeah just just cut me a little slack would you? I mean I the the missed block is like it's it is it's like it's like you hang your head a little bit like you're just less of a dentist and it's I get. It happens to everybody. Just you know miss when it happens the dentistry. We don't start working in this way. I woke up and the nurse was like. How's your pain level on a scale from one to ten I go? I know I'm a male so you'RE GONNA YOU'RE GONNA subtract two from this but it's like an eight you know it really hurts right now and the surgeon came up. I'm like dude. The block didn't work. I'm like pitching my hand goes. Turn Your Head. Tell me when you feel it now. Now now he goes block. Didn't work I go. No kidding I just told you that. it's so funny. Oh my Gosh I love. There's that actually does make me feel that technology being used. He missed the book and miss the Block. Still I mean all. I've got twenty seven gauge long. So that's the only technology I get today. Memory of what? The Tarot Dealer. Rafi isn't what you're supposed to be looking at I will say here's the obligatory mention of of there's video by Dr Tommy Murph that I got when we started this podcast like five years ago. I was missing blocks like pathologically. I was all messed up the video. He put out there that it his anatomic landmarks are still the ones I use right now. The difference is I don't inject this seat on the Youtube Video. I'm going to put up the show. It's awesome because the landmarks are fantastic. Would good reviews. I'm telling you what man I'm telling you. What does Yeah Tommy Response? One last thing the last thing on that we had a local anesthesia instructor from a hygiene school. Not even a dental school. Who's taken a tour glide? Well labs and she'd seen me speak somewhere and I was asking her. I said I never learned the gow gates injection. Do you teach it at the school. Cathy Bassett is her name. She said Yeah we teach at all the hygiene students so I was like. Wow and there's another dentist on the WHO has taken the tour with her unrelated but just Dennis to want to see the lamp and who graduated two years ago. I said did you learn the cow gates and she said no and I looked at Cathy and I was like you. Teach me the Gal Gates and she said yes and I looked to this other dentist I go. Can I give you my first cow gate? She said Yes so we filmed it. It's on the Glide. We'll site and to your point with Tommy Mercer Video. This video has over six hundred thousand views of me learning to give I gates so debt. This is something that we're taught in school. And there's you know we see our cadavers back when it's just like another hurdle to cross it's like another class we have to pass get through great. Would it be to have a cadaver now thirty years into practice and be able to go through it again and see all the anatomic structures but Cadaver Class. A really hard to find so I think I think that AH protocols kicking in again. I Well I've done. We had We had heads at an implant Course that was. I'M NOT GONNA lie. That was freaky freaky and I. I mean I would love to have like like you're saying gross anatomy had zero contacts because your brand new. You didn't know anything. You didn't know what you're going to be doing so it really was. It came at the wrong time. But that's a that's a whole other story could do cadaver class not for the cadaver exactly so okay mic. I wanted to focus. We have a ton of great questions from the dental hacks nation all about zirconium. I want you to give us the two minute version of how you invented zirconium. I wish we had invented it At glide well basically we. We saw something that was being done in Europe On a small basis by enrico staggered the guy who cons on which is a company that Moore. Dennis are familiar with now and we just kind of e Max was actually the trigger for us you know because we had we had worked with Ivoclar and we done empress to when that originally came out like ninety eight and we did I P S era when it came out in two thousand and two and both of these were felt spastic. Porcelain fused lithium silicate by by layer. Crowns both failed both were taken off the market and when he came back the next time with Imax we asked what is the the nearing material. This time they said there isn't one you know it's just all lithium silicate. What has echina- look good. They go it. Looks good like how does he? How can you take us? It's taking all the porcelain off a PFM and making it into a crown and go. Hey look looked awesome without even any porcelain all you had to do was glazer. Holy Crap if you can take porcelain off you know. A porcelain fused lithium silicate crown. Wh what happens if you take a lava crown for example and take the porcelain often. Make it all at his or Konia. Then we saw what they were doing In Europe when Enrico stagger were starting to do and and then we start doing it on the employee. Glide well is. They've signed seven page. Release that we should probably translate to their native language but we don't into helping the company and they want to do it so I can't say it was our idea but we were the ones who took it from like a a niche product to a huge thing and one thing about glide while I still think that when it comes to zirconium crowns whether it's old full-strength Newer a translucent zirconiums. I it obviously as a lab have more experience than almost any other any other lab in coloring blazing absolutely absolutely okay. I got. We got it just so much. We want to get through on zirconium. I I have a question from a friend of Mine Dr Ryan Michelson from the Dell hacks nation to interesting questions kind of a good one to start off with is zirconiums too strong. What'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN STRENGTH OF ENAMEL? Which is what we're placing and strength of zirconium. And why do we need to increase the strength so that that is a good question and I mean the strength of? I'm I'm well. There have been talks at glide will For on and off about coming up with an even stronger zirconium No stop why. Why this Kony oxides of first restoration that when it comes to whether we're gonNA cemented or bonded. It's the first restoration we've had in dentistry where that decision is driven by the fact that we're going to have to cut this off one day we've never thought about restorations like that. Our it's always been like three questions when it comes to cemented or bonding it's like What kind of restoration is is it? A crown and bridge of an era and only the second question is what's it made out of is it. Aluminum Oxides Konia Oxide. Is it metal? Is it lucite reinforced ceramic or felt about porcelain and? Then the last question. The third question is what's the prep light is four millimeters tall with six degrees taper. Or is it two millimeters tall with thirty degrees of taper but now we have to look at Coney and go? Hey we're gonNA someone's GonNa have to cut this off one day in. It's definitely harder to cut a bond Konia than cemented zirconium. So you start thinking about those things so I'm GonNa cut you off here. I'm argue even cemented. Konia is really hard to get off. It's really hard so so the reality is like I mean th the point's well taken it's so like doesn't need to be. Does it need to be that strong as well. It it it kind of depends because if you're cutting it off at six tenths of a millimeter. It's definitely different experience than cutting off a three minutes or Koneohe bridge were it's one and a half millimeters thing so it does. It need to be any stronger. Well if you leave it at six tenths of a millimeter it doesn't break on molars and so. I think that's strong enough. I don't think we need a major league goes to three tenths of a millimeter Cast Gold Ride still superior because it can go to three tenths of millimeters. So if you really need to go thin Kaskel way to go but six tenths of a millimeter still very conservative for smaller of so at eleven hundred Mega Pasco's have flexible strength for a three hundred percent to track. Kony like the original Brooks and some other full-strength zirconium. I don't think it needs to be any stronger. I don't think we should have Bella ones or any stronger. But if you want a weaker one and you want to go to one of the translucent once the problem with the translucent zirconium they look better because one of the reasons is the oxide goes from three percent up to five muller percent but the other thing is they're not one hundred percent to travel in terms of the crystalline structure. There like fifty percent cubic zirconiums. Like the ring that you're going to buy your next wife not the real diamond that you did the first time. But it's literally fifty percent cubic zirconiums right now and the other fifty percents of the Coney the problem is these translucence are Kony is. Don't exhibit that transformational toughening or that phase. Transformation that the original full-strength zirconium do and so the point being they don't They're not as strong. They won't resist cracks. They won't take the beating. Like a full straights or Koneohe. Well so we do have weaker zirconiums which are finding using the anterior. But I'm still a full strength or cone guy on first and second molars yes. They're a pain in the butt to cut off but that's the other side of having a restoration that's not going to break. Pfm's were ways you to cut off. But they would chip and you had to reduce a lot more so there's no free lunch. You're always going to have to pay the price summer. That's exactly right. There is no free lunch and so every material has has trade offs on some level. I have to tell you that I am. I do overwhelmingly Konia. You know I I like the I like the more translucent stuff for pre molars and stuff but I'll even do on on patients that aren't very cosmetically like driven. I'll do it in the anterior. I'll do the I'll honestly I just really. I'm real happy with the material. And so his point is probably that is you know. It's too strongly well but I I'm glad we have it. I'm glad we have it and I. I feel I feel like right now. It's kind of my go-to Jason. I mean are you typical crowns molars pre? Molars are you. Are you mostly doing pretty much? Everything's county have from If they're not as technically driven run pre muller's do I'll do their county on those and and they still still look pretty good but I don't have a lot of cosmetic work going on in our so issue. Well I was just going to say as a you know like forty thousand Dennis Order. One thing from glide. We'll every month so historically when I've been making recommendations I'm trying to make recommendations that I feel are going to be in the best interest of forty thousand dentists of all kinds of differing levels of degrees and length of experience and so for me the recommendation to stick with full stranger CONAN molars and then feel free to use lithium delicate like imax everywhere. Else I think. Pretty Common Sense Recommendation to being conservative. There's an answer Conan's not too strong. That's not that doesn't even make sense it. Just if you don't need something that's strong do lithium by silicon on the molars. But I don't I don't think we need to start weakening materials. We have materials that come in a different flexible straits. Zirconium is what it is. It's wrong. It's hard echo so the next one of the questions that was asked multiple different ways. Ken We bond like I hear that. Like on the dental heck's nation. There's this is. This is almost as common as back on Dental Town. Like Amalgam versus composite. That where people say you can you can. Can you bond zirconium or do you have to do something special to it to to bond it? Well yeah I mean it's it's yeah well. I wouldn't say you necessarily have to do something special. That's like saying you have to do something special to bond Imax. Will you have to edge it in use a? Yeah you do exactly so you. Don't edge there so what we have to do something special. Any anytime we're bonding something. Or even most of the time submitting. Now we're doing some sort of pre-treatment impossibly disinfection but let me just answer the question at a higher level I so yes you can absolutely bond as their Konia But it's only about. It's probably about thirty to thirty five percent weaker. Bond than it is to imacs so be because e Max is a traditional glass ceramic. You can edit with hydrofluoric acid which makes it look like Swiss cheese and when you look at it under an sem and all those little Swiss cheese holes or micro mechanical retention for your Resin Cement. Once you've used a surroundings Eileen to create a chemical connection between the two if you put if you look at Coney Oxide It's a structural ceramic. It doesn't have any glass in it. Which is why. It's not very pretty compared to something like an email or an empress and because it doesn't have any glass. There's nothing to edge with hydrofluoric acid so even if you sandblast as coney oxide crown. You can't create that Swiss cheese so the reason why you can't Konia as strong as you can the taxes because you're relying just on that chemical bond between Konia Primer and there's Konia crown itself which is ten. Md Johnny Molecule that ten methacrylate Oxy dessel die hydrogen phosphate. I know you both use that term at the time. That's the way it's it's the camera is but it's the ten and DP molecule exactly and so when you bond to e Max You have micro mechanical retention which is a lot a lot of surface area on the inside of that crown and you have a chemical on But was there coney you just had the chemical bond and so yes you can find his Konia. Yes it's a weaker bond than you would get to e Max or empress or any other ceramic but we can still bond is coney and. There's definitely times where we want to because of a short over tapered. Prep okay. That's that's awesome. That's a that's a really good. It's a really good answer. So Mack Jones actually from the clinical hacks has a really good question in this. He's talking about he's talking about kind of some of the lab. The lab's WS can get a touch on die spacex what parameters need to be set up to. The crown isn't relying too much on cement retention. Does that make sense? He says so basically how. How does the lab need to treat your I? Guess maybe the difference between Mettler or something else in coney like what how does how does glide. Well approach that. Or how does the lab speak for? I'll speak for global of course because that's what I know. Exactly what's going on there and traditionally we did at the lab. What we didn't dental school you know we would trim the die. We would mark the margin puts a margin hardener on their after market with the Red Pencil. Then we'd take that fingernail Polish and put like two coats of die. Spes are on it but everybody's closest buddies coats are a little different thickness if you leave the off your dice based or like some technicians. Do when they're doing twenty or thirty dies. The Acetone starts evaporating get sicker. It's part of the thing that led to a real inconsistency in the way crowns fit and so we went totally a digital. A Guy will about the same time we came out brooks or Joe so now regardless of the crown. It's always exactly the same. It's a ninety Micron Virtual Dice Pacer that's in the software and we found ninety microns To be an optimal thickness of based on kind of what mack was alluding to trying to get good looting forces between the crown on the prep when it cemented but also being able to make sure that crowns drop into place knowing that. Dennis aren't the best about cleaning preps before they try and crowns like they'll take a cotton ball or a toothpick and clean it up but they're rarely taking like a pro phy Cup with the non-fluorinated pumice or just like that whip mix preppy pumice and really cleaning pressure mostly because they didn't want to anesthetize the patient so they have to be a little gentle when they're cleaning the PREP PLUS. We don't know what cement they're going to use. You know most of our dental cements or somewhere from anywhere from about eighteen to about forty microns of thickness And then you might do the two coats of gloomy Desensitize the prep like I do that. Relics and talks about and that's GonNa be eight microns each so it's ninety microns of dice macer except for at the margins where we leave all of our crowns open thirty microns and this is something that a lot of dentists. Haven't don't probably think about on a on a usual basis but in the absolute best case scenario the crowns are open thirty microns that the exceptions Kaskel. If you're going to do an online and then Polish the margins was sandpaper. But we have to do that. Otherwise the crowds won't see you need somewhere for the excess cement to go in the old days. I remember the guy. My Dad bought the practice from us to leave a hole in the ACLU. Zal would your lawn. That's about you clean it out and patch every every crown has at least thirty. Micron opening a Lotta Times. It's GonNa be closer to seventy five or one hundred or one hundred twenty microns. I've had a real mental change where I think about crown margins now or the margin the cement margin between the crown and the tooth I tend to think of those now is really narrow class five restorations and treat them as such. I put a liquid glycerin on. Before a cure it to make sure I don't have air inhibited. Layer and I'm now start polishing my crown margins with some polishers with a universal polisher that polishes your Konia an composite and so I'm polishing entreating. It likes to class five. And if there's a camera on the office I'll even put some fluoride varnish shot so when there's a camera in the auditory. I'm doing what I call sixty minutes dentistry. Which is what you would. You have sixty minutes with standing there with a camera filming you and you knew it was going to be everywhere. But that's really the right way to do it so I used to not think much about that crown cement margins but the more I've started to focus on the more I like to think about it as a very narrow class five in treating it the same way. We treat a class five restoration textually great idea. And that's that could go for honestly whether you're using like a resume and forth glamour or or if you're a resume honestly get country that same way just accuracy. What Polisher do you like? That's that's universal coney and composite. You ever actually tell your listeners. At the end they can get a sample of it for free But it's Yeah and so You know I've worked with. I've clar well for a long time. Actually we've talked about different things and I've talked about the need for a universal Polisher for a while I'm always looking for you. I'm always looking for university solutions. Because especially in this day and age where we're expecting Dennis and their dental assistants to remember what to do and what to do for imacs in their kind of radically different in certain steps. Mess him up if you don't do the same way so. I'm always looking for universal solutions. That are easy to remember so you can't screw it up. I'm in I'm in the mistake of voidance of business so Ostra gloss is a new Universal Polisher from Clark's got so if you're using announcer coney or Imax to polish the restoration itself. It's a two step. There's a dark blue and a light blue so use the dark blue first and then finished with the light blue and if you're polishing direct class to composite or a a resin margin around the crown like I just mentioned then you just use the light. Blue Polisher so for indirect restorative materials. Use The dark blue and the light blue and then for direct composites You just use the the light blue itself and so it works on Zirconium Eat MATTRESS THAN DIRECT CLIP place. Composites Yudo Polish teeth. It'll Polish animal. So it's it's truly now been optimized so we can have one set of polishers for all materials and so it's very easy for your systems. Know what you're GONNA use. No that's great. That's fantastic. 'cause that's kind of one of those things where like. Oh you know the trying to explain that to your sister which when you want win and all that stuff so that's one of the big calls we get. We get some calls at the lab that I thought were crazy like Dennis calling up and going asking about Imax like what should I use to cement this or like you're the dentist? Should we be calling you and asking you what you used to cement this but okay? They'll pass the call to me and I'll give you the answer but a question I do expect and we do get this. How do I just and Polish their Kunia and that is something to lab does You know all day every day and so they should be very good at that. Sure sure we'll actually interesting okay. So when you're polishing or I'm sorry when you're justifying. Tell me tell me what. What's so funny because in the lab? You've got lab engines. I'm guessing so when you're when they adjust you're using a lab engine in there and so they can. They can Polish with Conan Polish with water. Which is the ways? Konia should always be treated. And that's kind of a deep dive if we if we go into. How OVER HEATING? Zirconium is is bad for it. Weakens it but since we since it's not the all day lecture. You're just GonNa have to trust me anytime. You're adjusting zirconium. You want to have the water on and I know that's a hassle because you just put hot rose any you've got the blue dot on the tooth and now you want to keep it dry while you adjusted so you can put your film in and check it again. So if you're not gonNA use water just short little light touches on the CONAN heavier assistant blow cool air on at the same time but yeah always should have water but your point a lab tech would never use an air. Roader polisher restoration but meanwhile most dentists or the ones who haven't embraced electric piece. That are just missing out on all the benefits of Torque from polishing restorations in the mouth. Yeah totally well. Here's here's the thing. Okay so I have lab engines. But they don't have water so I find myself not I I've before I was doing zirconium. Regular basis porcelain fused smells great. Because I didn't feel it but but honestly a lot of times. I'm doing all that adjustment in mouth and I have electric and pieces and we have water like crazy and so I I feel like I'm doing the right thing. There's a lot of different burs out there for adjusting zirconium. In like what? What would you tell someone? What kind of Berar they looking for? What do they do they look for in like? Let's assume well okay. This is this show my ignorance. I generally when I'm trying in I'll I'll check to see pretty close. And since I'm using a digital workflow bites usually pretty close I just after I've cemented typically by that time you know like an all Polish because I know what they're going to move around you are doing it right absolutely doing it right. I would even go. You heard it here first. People he said I was doing it right. You're doing it right and one of my heroes. I have a couple mentor. Big Mentors in dentistry of Strub Herald chevelle from the old days in Chicago and Dr Daniel Kim down who I think we've mentioned before he's the owner of contact easy. I just did a we. We met with dentistry to come and be a sponsor I've got somebody else. I'm working on to get your meeting next year as an exhibitor and have contact easy there again and people support voices dentistry with your attendance. And if you're lucky enough to have a rep you're close to from a company. Make sure they're at voices of dentistry. Let's all take personal stake in this meeting and try to grow this into the biggest best meaning of all this. I love it. I love speaking there. I love being there. So Oh my Gosh. Okay so now. We have to say a little bit here because Mike in Josh. Basically threw the gauntlet down four speakers to to This is where you you work your new stuff out. This is where you were fantastic. I loved her. I loved everything about it. And then and then you introduce Josh and Josh crushed. It just crushed at you two guys Saturday morning. Which is a sleeper of a time to have to have to trust me. I know all about Saturday mornings and meetings and stuff like that is not the best there but you guys kicked off Saturday morning and everyone was there and it was really good and so like I would love to see the voice of Dentistry. Become that time when someone can actually show off their speaker chops like like literally. This is how good of a speaker I am. You guys were so good. I'm so glad you were there. I'm so glad you support the meeting. Really approach is the and that is really the only meeting where you can do that. And not and not get in trouble and not. Have you know? Dennis get angry bizarre. Used to do that like my regular lectures. And then I'd see the reviews afterwards and I'd see Dennis who wrote a man if I wanted to comedy show. I would have gone to the Improv and I was like okay. I'll I'll you know for me if it's not entertaining. I won't even I won't pay attention to it and so that's that's just kind of something that I I. Kinda do you know almost Ah for myself but let's get back to what you were saying about what. What should Dennis you sorry? Go TO ADJUST OF ZIRCONIUM AND LITHIUM SILICATE. First of all a diamonds always cut. Better than carbide. So we haven't identified. A carbide yet that works on these materials. The second thing is that light pressure is crucial. Not only to keep from overheating. It and again your point. If you don't have water in your happy's just have your system blasting some missed on it or just air and you do short little light touches but if we're cutting it off we don't care that much the crown so the thought is just lean into it but you'll strip the diamond particles off the berm much quicker that way. Not only that but we do. We're GONNA see cutting off crowns as being very barbaric about twenty or thirty years from now. We're GONNA go holy that we really used to do that. Because it's hard to cut offs Koneohe without doing a little I after genyk damage to the tooth and I much every time I do it. I have to turn to my assistant go. I decided to place an anti rotational groove on the facial of two number nine. Yeah actually interesting I I will say this. I took a gold crown off today. I am taking one of those offline. It's been a little while. God Young Dentist Man. They won't know they'll never know. The pleasure of taking gold crowns off or porcelain fused metal or CAPITEC Catholic. You can do with your fingers for Crown the tech you. Just get the bird within a millimeter just surrenders and falls off into your hand which is nice it does it does so you can use fine grit diamonds or course diamond cutters coney of course diamonds. You'RE GONNA be Lucky to get through one crown with that diamond and so the fine diamonds you can probably get through three or four crowns. The rounder the tip the less of diamond stripping. There's going to be if you have a ninety degree angle on it like you're using a top. Hedberg it down to strip off a little bit a little bit more so we've actually tested Cr tested a bunch of burs on zirconium with a mechanical device. And the ones that did well or like a refinement Bertha Premier to striper. You can almost just pick whatever shaming but that's like thirteen dollars per bar I grew up on the Zircon. Burs which were from Axis. Which is now Kerr Rotarian? Those are fine grit burs. That'll work on multiple. Crowns are like a little under ten dollars per But then the Premier Solo Diamonds. The course diamonds. You won't get as many you know you might get one crown out of it but those are you know about two bucks so you can do that. To comment makes a good course. Bur that tested well at CR. I'm more of a fine grit bird person so all spend more per bird knowing I can get more uses out of it and the reason why I like that is I like having these these fine grit especially the Konia optimized burs like dessert cut bursts from karate. I like having these on hand. Disease the finest grit diamonds we've ever had dentistry the previous finder. It was the red strike diamond. That has a diamond particle size about sixty migrants. These covers that have a blue stripe on the shank. These have a diamond particle size of about fifteen microns. So they're very very fine grit and this is what I use when I have to adjust the opposing so the same birds that we used to cut up. Konia crowns or adjuster. Coney are cut off for adjust. Imax is what I used for clues UIL adjustments or equivocations visit leaves such shallow scratches. That it's very easy to wash scratches away easy to Polish. I find myself when I've got. I use a lot of the micro copy the very fine Their composite finishers by. That's what they call them. But essentially they're awesome to adjust their Konia with. They're coming out a little inside baseball. They're out with some kind of an adjuster. Konia Adjustment Burr. That's I'm not exactly sure. What makes it that but from but right now I used. They're they're verifying great for initiative for taking to honestly in the Nice thing is they're they I mean they're single patient use their disposable. They're not as expensive as I mean. They're probably the most expensive disposable burs they make but I'm just not GONNA lie. I like him a lot but I've used quite a few of those. Here's the thing. Get a very fine diamond. When you're doing this stuff you won't go back once you do. Find something and use very fine down with water. You don't have to Polish likable out once you're done. I mean it's like you're getting it close with that. I've found that to be the case for zirconium. Spent a Lotta time with cups and polishers and stuff like that that are made for those things disfigured destroyed. You know they they kind of they kind of explode over there. They run run through quicker so I like using those very fine diamonds to get it pretty awesome. Here's the other thing too and this is this is something we. I think we talked about on the show before. But what happens to their Konia after you tried in the mouth. Why do we need to clean it in like for the for the Lazy People? What happens if what happens if you don't clean it. What happens what is what are the salivary proteins? This of what happens to that. Tell us a little bit more Zuccotti happens to be a very hydrophobic material like we've never seen an indirect restored material. That's hydrophobic as this and so if you if you watch like a full arch implant prosthesis that is our Koneohe being done. They can actually paint layers of dying onto the outside of it. N- it'll soak into this or Conan and then they can center it and you can have the gingerbread third in the middle third and the insides authored done by painting. These dyes or cons on makes them ivoclar makes them. Zucconi is like a sponge. It's very hydrophobic. So when you put it on a two and you just have to assume that their saliva on the prep not only is the material hydrophobic but oddly enough you know. Here's this material that the first question tonight was. Is it too? It's too strong. Was the statement. The first guy made but yes y'all Kryptonite and it's Kryptonite is of all things saliva and you're like. Oh that seems weird. And it's unfortunate considering that it's a crown material you know it's too bad like it's a weakness is like a grapefruit juice or some other fluid that doesn't naturally occur also exactly when When phosphates like you said the salivary phospholipids or that ten. Mdp molecule that we mentioned before the Pe- in that is phosphate. So these phosphate groups just automatically bond. Is there coney oxide? It's a downhill reaction. So it doesn't need. Temperature doesn't need a catalyst phosphate group bonds. Coney Oxide you get your Konia oxy phosphate and all it does all it doesn't that reaction as it liberates four water molecules. And so you'll never know that it happened to be better. Fit Liberated like a puff of green smoke actually and if it smelled really bad too. That'd be good like Afar kind of. Yeah Yeah Sonic Boom. A sonic boom would be good. Where like the whole office? She asked both I. I'd be down with either one of those things. Actually we should work on that. Okay so you never know what happens. You just have to assume that it happened. So if you're GONNA use so first of all if you have the first hundred crowns that I did glide well Brookshire crowds at really tall preps and I do build up again because I'm doing everything on camera so I'm trying to set a good example because their attention was great. I didn't know that they were contaminated with saliva and I just put on with resume. Modify glass never came up. Yeah so it's really only applies to short over tapered preps another way to get around. This is if you use ceremony cement which I don't know if we've ever talked about on. We probably did on one of the previous podcast. But it's very hydrophobic calcium illuminate lands and it bonds directly to the Konia oxide regardless of saliva. So if you don't WanNa have to think about the saliva problem you can use that but a lot of Dennis have their own Resin. Cements that they like to use an if you're gonNA use a resin containing cement and it's not a four millimeter tall prep Walls that's GonNa when you're wanting gonNA decay decontaminate or Konia crowd you WanNa get those salivary phospholipids out of there. So you can have the phosphate. Groups in years or Konia primer bond to all those sites and so the kiss of death is cleaning the insider Konia crowned with foster guests. That's the worst thing you could do. Ironically that works really well for Imax. Yeah exactly and of course. That's unfortunately I'm sure that it happens a lot because that's like the natural. That's yeah treating what we were taught to do for twenty years and it works. It works on email as well. And that's why like universal recommendations so for example you can say we'll take your contaminated. Konia crowded sandblast. The inside of that but Oh don't sandblast day lithium silicate is you'll just eat away that glass matrix and weaken an emek crown. So I don't want Dennis to have to remember now. Which can SAM in which one can. I Not Samba's for me. It's just easier to say. Hey Use Iva clean mal of them is it will work both is it works on all of them. Now if you can remember that it's that sandblasting removed salivary contaminants resume Qodian that Aiba. Clean even phosphorous acid works for Imax. Then more power to you but and I'm sure I've told you this before what I went up to see Gordon. One time in brought him some restorations. He was submitting to Imax crowns on one side and two on the other side his assistance to get a cheat sheet to remember what to do. That was the moment I thought. Oh my God if Gordon Christianson Super Sharp chairs to cheat sheet then every dental assistant in the US xactly universal recommendation. So they don't I would universal recommendation or tattooed on your forearm. And of course the problem is when it changes. It's a bitch right like as laser stuff and all that all right. So here's here's a question. This comes like from today I had a patient. This is this. Is Everyone's thing a patient comes in saying this tooth is loose. The crowns loose crowds implant crowns coming off and and I looked at it and what we cemented with. It definitely wasn't. There's no way that the crowd was loose. So I'm like I think the apartments loose but it was a cemented crown and so I'm like depending on how good of a day you're having you can either just crown off in. Torque it down and get an impression or you can say you know what I'm going to see anything find this whole on that and I was having I'm not gonNA lie was having an absolute day today but I decided to try it anyhow i. It was like literally the best thing I did today. I found it with almost no effort. Dropped it in tort down it was. It was dead on the money. But of course got a my crown and it's not a whole. That was by design. I mean it was a whole that I put with Burr in in so. I'm curious what you would recommend. What's the best way and? I guess it doesn't have to be durable. Because essentially I just made a A cemented crown into a screw retain ground by doing that. So I guess but how would you? How would you close that aesthetically as well as you know doesn't go I was talking to Roderick data? What how would you close that when it's going because this was definitely zirconium crown? Well I don't. I don't know that I have any Genius Recommendations for what to do there. I do know that Patching Endo excesses looks a lot better on E. maximum coney than it didn't Pfm's where we add where there was no. There's no composite that was opaque enough. So something that small to me is It almost doesn't matter any almost like you're sure posit would work there to me. It's more about the access hole itself as there and there and we also tested all those different burs for access holes and. I'm glad you're back this up because I failed to mention it when we talked about that. But it see. Are we tested With a bunch of different diamonds making access holes in Crowns. And we got a lot. More chipping with the course burs than we did. With the fine round bursts making endo access especially through Imax but also on their Kunia so and identity. I forgot to even say that. But when it comes to the fine grit burs. That's another reason. Why lean towards the fine grit is because when it comes to an endo access? You'RE GONNA have a lot less. Chipping and or potential shattering. Maybe of an e Max crown or a fracture With the Fine Grit burs rather than the course. Once I don't I don't think I have a big recommendation for what for. Yeah for the Rehire. All Us us that financial to tell you I used a kind of a medium and then went to a fine and and it was. It was pretty pretty slick. It wasn't it wasn't endo access is through the frigging worst. I mean that's Koneohe remax. What was Konia User Konia in it? It was but like. I oftentimes if I have to do endo through that a lot of times. I'm looking to see if this was one of mine in in if I can just have a mill another one so I just cut it off. 'cause they're as tough workman is tough work and I mean the repairing. Easiest part of it probably. Well that's one of the Nice things about a fully digital lab LEICA glide well or like a lot of other labs that are using digital. Is that you know if you did that. Crown in the last couple years for the patient You can glide will stores all their designs in the Amazon cloud services so you could call or May and other last probably do this too but you could call the lab and say hey. I'm going to have to cut through this. Chronic number fourteen patients not gonNA be very happy. Can you just you know. Send me mill another crown. The same Santa Cut. That old enough cleans your like. Is it going to be a perfect fit? Well it's never a perfect fit always but we have much better cements to seal our margins in fact the question usually comes up in lectures once I start talking about. This idea of. The cement margin cramped being like a classified restoration. If somebody's really thinking a handgun in Dennis will say will then if we're essentially creating a very narrow class five. Why do we care if it's thirty microns? What if the crime was open a millimeter? And we were going in and shaping and polishing it. Wouldn't we be able to handle the margin a little bit better or does it matter if it's opened a millimeter versus thirty microns and it's an intelligent kind of theoretical question to say? Oh so if doing this with these resin cements does it. Doesn't matter but the success of these cements because they're thinned out like cure composites. I still feel better about them. The smaller the margin is if we were truly using the same kind of composites for the margin that we were using on class. Five to cement crowns and I would say yeah. Let's have it be a millimeter. But then the other thing would be aesthetically. You could see where the crown and the resin came together now L. A. millimeter super gingerly. It probably wouldn't be very pretty on a lot of the on a lot of the kind of heavy duty Dental facebook groups like tomorrow tooth and in style Tagliani they will go back and forth about margin elevation in how you know the idea of being having better isolation placing composite and ceramic on the composite margin and the people lose their minds about that stuff. But essentially you know the technology and the AB- like like it's sacrilege to say having a millimeter open margin except for the fact that when you're thinking about it it's makes sense it makes sense with with Howard doing this. Now it's not it's it's just our materials different than when that was the most important thing so I don't know it's very interesting kind of interesting concept that you put out there. Yeah and obviously the farther down the toothy. Go The more mechanical retention. You have of the crown on the tooth and there's probably times where somebody's got a high carries index rather have it be slightly substantial in the ANAEROBIC version anaerobic region be brought up on the tooth. But no I think largely that would be if aesthetically it didn't present such a challenge that that arguably that would be a better way to do it definitely. Okay so rob teacher. Who'S A lab guy? Actually I'm curious of of his thoughts in his being. You about the blended zirconium. Three Y and five Y. Prime etc that are out there recently on the market. You have any thoughts on that. Yeah well the only one I know of is the next prime From from Ivoclar. And I know it's a little confusing Biz. Imax is a lithium silicate but email. Prime is this yet blended zirconium material. And so I'd like this idea because you know when we originally came out with an esthetic zirconium. I argued very very hard at glide. Well in very very hard that it needed to be called brexit anterior. Because I wanted to tell Dennis this was a week or Konia. And here's where you use it in the anterior and I'd be out lecturing and I'd mentioned Brookshire Ontario. Dennis hand would go up and he'd say they want to name it. Brookshire static and I said No. No we gotta tell Dennis where to use it and go out lecturing a dentist would say can I use Brookshire anterior in. The poster argued for hours that if we just told Dennis where to use it it would be okay so as it turns out. We probably should've called it brooks or not in the post area and I would like to see if somebody said can I use brooks or not the poster in the posterior just to see if somebody would have would have happened. Not In the post. I feel like I feel like that's that's kind of kind of a hot take a little bit too. I see bumper bumper stickers and stuff like that not Syria. I think that was Jalen senior quote in his yearbook. Not In the jazz experiment and push your horizons. That's right. You're absolutely right. So yeah these five wiser coney as relics testing them in the post area and she seemed to percent of them fracture either during adjustment or when the patient bites together upon cementation. That's unheard of because in her eight year. Study testing the full strengths or Konia. It's got a hundred percent. Survival rate and by the way Imax in that study also being done on Muller's has a ninety five percent survival rate over those same eight years so e Max is doing very well in that. Study too but these Translate Center. Kony is. I'm really scared about using them in the poster and not just in the answer but then we have dentists. Who fought fell in love with full strength? Brookshires or Konia and like twenty two percent of the crowns that anterior crowns that gliders doing are the full strength or coney. I'm like what we don't need all that straight up there. We do need more aesthetics up there. So there's the choice between the two so I do like the idea of the blended materials because getting back to that die spacer. You were the one who set it out and we put ninety microns everywhere but not over the margin all of the all the concentration of force when a patient bites down on crime that's being cemented as at the gingele margin that's literally where all the context taking place so on these translucence are Kony is. That's where these fractures start. That's where the fractures are an Imax to on molars started the lingual margin typically is the two little under reduced so the idea of having a five white crown and a three hundred percent to travel margin down where all the forces can count. Concentrate when the patient bites down and this is being submitted. I love that idea. That's that's really cool. I will say this. I just review with me. I think I know what it is but I I'll k. Most of what I'm doing is post your stuff and most of what I'm doing is a pretty tall preparation. Not Super over tapered. I'm a cement these things. I almost all the time but I like. I just can't even participate in the stuff when they're Bonnie 'cause I just don't do it very much. Is there any reason on a on a on a typical preparation that I should be Bonnet? I should be using resonance men or is it. I mean I. I will say that we've talked to a few people like some of the three guys. Look we just want to have one cement? You know we just. We just want to have one semester. We just want to have their concepts like years. They WANNA simplify. But Man. I tell you what I use a lot of resin reinforced glass. Run these things and then like I said when I have to cut him off. It's still a horrible day. It's still it's I it. They don't come off as either way so so. Many people spend much time with all their bonding technique going man but I just plop this thing on you know but cutting off a Cemented Zirconium Crown on a scale of zero to ten with like You know it's like five or six whereas bonds. Connie crowns like a nine so it is. It is enough to differentiate between the two but they named that scale. That's actually the lipscomb scale of how how much it sucks to actually remove Kony crowns. You've always wanted to have something after right. Stay scale where zero is voices dentistry in attendance. Your state meet at the speakers at your local state meeting or whatever happens my scale. It's it's one of those things where when we made a recommendation in the CR newsletter Gordon Gordon and I talked about a lot about zirconium and we made the recommendation again. I recommendation for all Dennis. That cement zirconium whenever you can and only bond with a gun to your head basically now. That's for sure Konia if you're doing because it doesn't help at all to bonds or coney except you get some extra attention. If it's a short over tapered prep but if you're doing imacs on molars and like eight percents post terrier crimes that glide will desert Imax. The vast majority of Imax on Muller's is being done by the chair side. Cad Cam crown crowd is that was the first full crown mature they had for for molars than they all bought them into place. And it's a good thing. They're busy bonding IMAX. On Molar increases the fracture toughness in addition to helping the retention bondings. Kony does not increase the fracture toughness of so damn strong anyone. You're getting no benefit from bonding zirconium. We were your. We're all old enough to we. Were sold a billet goods on binding was always the preferable way in the early nineties back in the Bi days. That bonding bonding bonding cementation was last. Generation's concept it's no good but that's just not true as soon as you start at least when it comes to like etching rinse so when I do bog like if you take something like speeds and plus it's a self adhesive Resin Cement. No etching of the tooth it leaves the smear layer in place on the tooth to combat post operative sensitivity Speech plus even has a ten. Mvp molecule needed already. So you don't need to worry about a Konia primer either. So this is the weakest method of bonding. It's slightly stronger than a resin modified glass. Heimer that you're using But you still have to light curate. You still have to trust at this. Material is going to self care basically in the deeper spots because we know how difficult it is like your your through so yeah. It's hard to argue with using resin modified glass or something like ceremony. To Cement these Konia Kratz. Even Imax doesn't transmit as much as we. Nick it would. I mean to get through a millimeter and a half of EMEK. If there's one hundred percent power coming out of your life during unit only twenty four twenty eight percents getting through millimeter half of of Emek. So if we're going to use dual cure cements. We need to make sure they have a good self cure component case. The light doesn't get there which means you can test it just squirted on Pat. Put it in a drawer before you go to lunch. Come back later cured. Yeah Yeah So. You're making the right decision by the majority of disease or coney restorations. Do not feel guilty. About not bonding them. You you know there's less moisture contamination less stabbed. Yeah it's less expensive Post opera sensitivities. Probably about the same as the sheriff that he's a resin cements but the cleanup's probably easier to so you are thinking the right way but as you get to eat Max of now. It definitely pays to commit robotic we. We're GONNA wrap it up here. I'm GONNA last question. Have we sort of talked about this? But I'm very curious. Do you see the future in the next five ten years where really and truly word we've kind of gotten away from Lithium Basilica where we've got. We have Konia. That's good looking enough. That's really the choice that we go to or or is it. Do you feel there's always going to be a place for these different materials? I just 'cause I just because they're coney so simple and that's one of the reasons I get some how to think very much about it and it seems to work pretty well. I'm just curious. Do you see it ever becoming the main thing for everything or is it is it. Are we still going to have these different? I just am curious about that. You know I do think that certainly has if you look at glide wells numbers right now. Like anterior poster crowns. Pfm Down to five percent of the crowns that they make. I mean it's like it's going extinct as a single unit. I still use. Pfm's bridges your different story with solids or coney can still break in the connector So I still use. Pfm's for bridges but a single unit material. Pfm's going away. You would think that zirconium steamrolled lithium silicate. But there's not a lot of chinks in lithium silicates armor and that's why I think it's going to continue to be around because there's a lot of Dennis who don't have a reason to switch it rela eight year study on Molars where. I don't even use the Max if you look at Ivoclar scientific documentation it actually says Amex is contraindicated in Brookshires. Grinders which everybody just kind of ignores puts it wherever they want to put it because everyone pretty much two thirds of all people in practice but the stuff works. It's almost the perfect combination of strength and aesthetics and cutting off is less of less torture cut. It's not fun it's not as much. Pf in our captive sales okay. Six eight So I just think that because it's working so well for people It not only just in the chair side. Cad Cam Space. But it's still working well with laboratories to definitely zirconiums put a dent. The aesthetics are put a dent in lithium silicon. But there's a lot of dentists out there and I would recommend it to them to say. Hey man if Max is working for you don't switch if it's not breaking series like it's why would you switch to something else? I don't try to switch people's impression materials or or anything of it's working for them. I only want to present solutions when somebody's having an issue. God forbid you take somebody doing something successfully switch something else and now all of a sudden they have six or seven remix GonNa hate you and blame you for that so I think for the foreseeable future especially when it comes to answer. Restorations will see lithium silicate and the AESTHETICS ARE CONEY. Us continuing to split the market and just because of the Nares as well coney veneers or kind of a nightmare Compared to using e match which looks so good makes a great no prep the near material three tenths of a millimeter thick. So I think we're GONNA see IMAX. It's not going to own the space like it used to. But it can split it with With zirconium anterior. In the post here. I think it's going to be a a three hundred percent. Two triangles koneohe world as time goes on his order casts gold. I gotTA give shout outs to cast gold. It's still the best. Yeah and I think I've told you. Before that Brookshire we stumbled onto solids coney in search for a cast gold material that came in a shea to. That's what we were looking for. Yeah Yeah we'll shoot Mike. This was fantastic. Really appreciate you having come on you. Were going to offer us free stuff. If I remember correctly so we should probably get the free stuff offer out there. Yeah well it's actually ivoclar. Who's offering the free stuff I set you up? You could've just said it was from you. Well it's pretty obvious. It says Ivoclar not to tell you when you get the box but it's It's as your Konia cementation kit and basically it's a system what. I talk about in Mexico Cementation Webinar. Which like an hour log. Women are so it comes with the obligate which is part of my concept relative isolation like. We're not GONNA put on a full rubber dam Just cement crowns but we can do relative isolation which is an option for me and oftentimes I put a rubber dam clamp on the tooth but don't use a rubber dam turns out. It's a great way to hold down Kat roles in isolate margins it comes with the AIBA. Clean that we talked about for decontaminating. Konia it comes with the speed send. Plus the self adhesive presents met that I mentioned it comes with a liquid strip which is The Glycerin that I talked about putting on their margining curing through. So you don't have that air inhibited. Layer on the moon and then it comes with sample of those ostrogoths university. Dr seuss one hundred. Seventy bucks worth of stuff in a box looked like it was designed by Apple Computer. It's really it's really nice. So you'RE GONNA have to get a pen though for this against I it it's ivoclar-vivadent dot. Us slash speeds him hyphen. Plus we can do that. Ivoclar-vivadent dot US slash speeds him hyphen plus. And when you get to the website. It'll give you two choices you can either click to have a rep dropped the kid off at your office and just make sure that you understand how to use those Or you can click to sign up for one of the webinars. I'm doing Unser County imitation than they. Send it to you in the mail after you complete the webinars so either way But there's nothing wrong with meaning your friendly local Ivoclar Rep and having them a bring it by but it's a hot. It's the most generous office offer. I've seen a company lately in this amazing kit so five grade products. And you're well on your way to optimizing user Kunia cementation with this kit. That's awesome so we'll put that in the show notes too so you can look right through that and Mike thank you so much for being on this fantastic. It's always a ball. You guys Do This podcast. Probably more than than any other one. In whether it's here or at the live meetings I love what you guys to do it. I'm going to support it Every way I can to help help grow the hacks Where I think it should be. Which is the biggest biggest meeting in dentistry? We Toss Them. GotTa push this up. Thanks so much. We'll talk to you soon. Okay hacks listeners. Where Akram that interview with Mike? Tola and Alan Meade and me and there are sometimes. He was a little bit. He was there a little bit. Yeah but so if you guys have any questions or comments for for Mike. He's very willing to answer them. Although I feel like we covered soup to nuts on On coney nuts J. L. cover those that I. Just oh hey there's also a link in the show notes to sign up for either women are or have a an IVA car salesperson. Come by and show you the stuff. He was talking about so go. Check out the Lincoln. The show notes to Mike Sweater. I think it's worth a try. Plus you get Laker. You can get one hundred seventy bucks worth of cool polishers in cement and all kinds of stuff. You need to check that out for sure. Free stuff people first off. It's not toilet paper but it is free dental stuff. So there's that are you getting free stuff. Jason Nervous stuff just series about my office. And then I'm I'm supposed to know about it and I don't know Dude Dude seriously like like you laugh but this podcast has given us a chance to get some neat stuff. My my assistant super pissed about it though because there's always a boxer to on my on my desk of stuff. They always trying something new. Yeah and they're always hating that. I'm trying something new. Exactly you got it. Yeah they do love that they love it. They love random material showing up without any rhyme or reason to. Yeah they love that epidemic podcast or people it's glamorous af they barely remember the normal stuff and stuff and then you throw other stuff with them. Yeah and sometimes that stuff makes it on a segment that we like to call. Go Hack yourself and I think sometimes I say go hack yourself. Sometimes I say well I never did try. Saad nicely done did buy some relax. Unisem this week because of our or episode several months ago. Yeah from from the Greater New York at John. Weston finally got the people. If you didn't listen to I if you didn't listen to either of the interviews with him go back and do it because he's he's a Rockstar. He you know what should happen. Jason. I should quit podcasting. And he should podcast he and liked the toll should podcast because they're better than we are. Don't tell them yeah. I shouldn't have said that out loud should I? I shouldn't have given anyone the idea. They're both went with their good dentistry and stuff with their good dentistry. Interesting conversation taps. Can you talk about that ever in American seriously? Whatever you know Jason as tradition dictates. I think you should go hack yourself. Well I never in past years. I've looked for A streaming cameras cameras as you can use to stream on the internet and do the live videos and a had the previous generation of this camera. The camera Which I enjoyed. And they're coming out with a new of it. That's going to be more in line with streaming and It's a smaller Cameron. It's kind of built to be able to do live webinars and to do live events and things like that so. I'm looking forward to coming out. It comes out in April God willing. We're all still alive called the you can't. You can't hold us accountable for the better ship. This for real but it's called them the start live streaming camera Meave Oh start live okay. And it's I think it's coming out in April two nine But I really did enjoy using the pass version of it. It was a little spotty with Wi fi. I'm sure they've made improvements because that was like four years ago Should be pretty cool. Sob this'll be cool for voices dentistry to bring with you. Super Small portable Run it with your phone. It looks like or tablet or some taxi. Use Your phone as the as the viewfinder and you can kind of you can. Zoom in on faces are safe. You're doing an interview with two people. You could use your phone and zoom in on the different people and have cut shots in in the In the film so it's Pretty Cool. Nice little toll that's cool. That's very cool. I like you do it. I like it a lot so I have. I have an interesting. Go Hack Yourself. I stumbled across this. I don't remember exactly I saw it. I think on facebook or something. It is an APP and they make it for both android and iphone. The APP is called. Whoa BOT W. B. O. T. WHOA WHOA WHOA DOT. Co in what it is is. It's it's a therapy APP if you will. It's a little BOT- but it's it's set up for cognitive behavioral therapy now if you've ever if you've known anything about CBT it's really interesting. It's kind of it helps you. Be OF YOUR EMOTIONS. It helps you. Be Aware when you're when you're overreacting to stuff all the stuff but but what's really interesting is there's literally there's no one on the end of it. It is a lot. That's kind of program to work with you. You are asshole. Alan that exact exactly. It's kind of like that. But what's crazy is how you wouldn't think that. I mean like bought online. Some are more effective than others. But most of me always kind of tell this is really cool and it's an APP on your phone. It's it's completely anonymous you can kinda. I'm very excited about it. It's called the robot and it's basically it's like a little therapist that you can kind check in with when you're having in Lee can do it when you're stressed out or when you've I I just was really impressed by it. And it's right on your phone. I'M GONNA. I think we'll probably talk about it on with with dawn at some point because this is like a stress management in kind of thing. It's it's kind of a therapy APP of all things but it's it's just very pleased with it like I in you check in every day it kind of follows up with you. It gives you suggestions for stress management and gives you. I was really impressed by it. Wo- by W. E. B. Ot. And like I said it's free for Android iphone so we got to lose and saying you can't do that al. Yeah that way. Josh Austin talks about he he actually has been using therapy APPs. Where there's a person on the other end of it and this is this is sort of just the the intro version of something like that. But he's he's he stuff. That might might be something different. I'm not one hundred percent. Sure I can't. I can't really speak for him so anyhow so hopefully next week the world won't have ended in. There will still be people wanting their teeth fixed and we will still be the people fixing their teeth. That's the hope. We already know that the him and was cancelled. So we'll be interesting to see what happens with us. We'll be doing well if you have any questions or comments about the episode or about what we're talking about or if you have any suggestions for us to talk about stuff love to hear that. Info dental x dot com go onto itunes or podcast APP. Leave us a review. Tell them what. How much Jason's hair? I think that'd be a good thing. I think in if you leave review and you mentioned how much Jason's here we're going to mention. You know you know me at all. Yeah you ain't no me. Nothing man so Tom. Tom Hanks and Rita Wilson tested positive for current virus for real for real national treasure. I'm hanks go no I have. I kind of feeling that they're gonNA do okay. But that's kind of awful all right so On that cheery news. I think we had out Jason. Thank you for spending some time with me this evening. Thank you and we'll catch you next week y'all.
Domination (MEN, Part 11)
"Grandpa. Joe Mack has the worst the bad guy. Joe is guy lays in bed all day long in his pajamas while as old ladies working like she's triple shifting at the laundromat. And then the second the kid comes home with the gold ticket. He's right out of bed. All of a sudden your guys like hits his head on the ceiling. Getting out of bed is dancing around. Moonwalking? You may have guessed that's a clip from talk radio. You may not have surmised. It's from a radio show devoted to sports to guy named Jim Rome. One of the nation's most popular sports, talk radio hosts, not talking sports at the moment. But instead going off on a fictional character from willy Wonka and the chocolate factory win guys. Talk on sports radio shows. And look let's face it. Most of the hosts and callers on sports radio are men. They mostly talk about sports who's going to win the championship which guy should the coach put in at quarterback. But far more interesting for our purposes on this podcast are the times when people on sports talk radio talk about how to be a man. And as it turns out, they talk about that a lot directly and indirectly, ironically. And seriously, how to be an admirable guy in these complicated times. And how not to Scott, I got a golden ticket. Yeah pops. Once you get yourself a job once you support the family, which kick something into that pot instead of you and the other six others being in bed and your pajamas all day long watching TV. And then all of a sudden the kid comes home with the candy bar golden ticket. And you're ready to run a marathon deadbeat. From the center for documentary. Studies at Duke University NPR Rex it's seen on radio part eleven of our series men were looking at masculinity. Sexism patriarchy how it all works. And why we need to take it apart. I'm Celeste Headley. I'm John be win. For this episode. We've repurposing and rebuilt a piece from season one on this show. It was part of a series that looked at stuff like race class and gender through sports borrowing from Raymond Carver I called at original episode. What men talk about when they talk about sports, and it turned out John you had to listen to a heck of a lot of sports talk radio in order to do this piece. I I mean, I gotta wonder if that's something you enjoy. I hope so you'll love it. No. Well, it's not something. I ordinarily do. I I've listened to games on radio at various points in my life, not recently. But especially baseball, which is definitely the best sport to. Watch on the radio, but sports talk was never of interest to me. I mean, I've never been into sports so much that it wanted to spend hours listening to people talk about it. How about you? Celeste sports talk radio yet. No. I'm sure that's not a surprise. But sports talk radio was victory, very popular format. They're about as many sports talk stations as there are public radio stations and sports talk has tens of millions of listeners mostly men aged twenty five to fifty four some major cities have conscious one but three or four stations talking sports twenty four seven. I mean, I guess you thought there was something important you could learn about American men by listening in but really John. I'm not sold on this yet. I mean, we're talking about really big broad issues of masculinity in gender in this podcast and sports talk sounds like a little bit of a trivial detour here. So we'll I really care about this. Well, okay, it's a fair question. First of all you're going to hear I I wanna say this straight. You're gonna hear very little about sports themselves in this episode. Right. And this is the next to last episode in our twelve parts season. You could almost say in a way, it's the climax of the series. That's how important I think this is not sports per se. Because of course, not all men are into sports either. A lot of women love sports, a jaunt through sports talk radio might sound like a sidebar. But, but it points us, I think to one of the central things we have to understand about our patriarchal culture that you pitch. Okay. I look I'm with. Willing to be convinced. So you tell me what is the big deal about all of this. And then we will talk about it. And we'll hear more from that psychologist Terrie real. Now, if you're not a sports talk listener, you may be thinking, I know what this is going to be a bunch of guys in their electron. Ick treehouse sounding like nineteen sixty two grilling is like a real bastion of of manhood. It's just a man thing right losing testosterone. Sizing up women's bodies bashing gays. Maybe some recreational racism thrown in from time to time that's more or less. What I expected by the way, more than ninety percent of the top sports. Talk radio hosts are white men. Almost all of the rest are black men of the top one hundred most popular sports, talk radio programs among them, the one hundred and eighty five or so hosts that they have because you know, number of them have more than one host. There's one woman at WFAN in New York City. That said having spent a bunch of hours listening. I have to say what goes on in that radio clubhouse is more complicated than I expected and just more interest. Strength because of cook is obviously very impressive. So this is a station. I listened to special the most I'm listening to ninety seven one the ticket, which is a local Detroit sports radio program. So David Nyland is on the couch in his loft condo in Sacramento, California. He's streaming the station on his laptop helps me hear more substantive discussion of. Sports or Michigan State University of Michigan. But it also is a way of feeling connected to home. Michigan state now, they'll probably come up with something a little bit better than they had against Rutgers. But I would be really huge game. This would be really significant to beat Michigan. You know? I was I was actually getting. Sort of pumped up as a Michigan state fan. So you get it David is a fan. But seriously, he's really a fan. There's all my Detroit stuff right here. Okay line. He's got framed pictures of Detroit sports heroes on the walls in his front hallway. Yes. So the rest of the house is just modern art and some people give me a hard time like being metro sexual. But then there's this area that honors Detroit sports scene is in the my bathroom is all Michigan state, plaques and the toothbrush folder. So I just to be really clear you have a Michigan state Spartans shower curtain. Yes. It's Michigan state green with the the Spartans logo thing the helmet. Right. And so this is over the top. But I this is where my loyalty impassioned, it's. But if you're picturing, Joe six pack kinda sports. Fan his references to modern art and being a metro sexual might have tipped you off that there's more to David Nyland. I am a full professor at California State University Sacramento. A professor of social work have been there about thirteen years. I've mainly been a psychotherapist for close to thirty years. I also have a PHD and cultural studies with an emphasis in feminist theory. Very social Justice minded work with queer communities. I am the clinical director of the gender health center. Which is a local nonprofit agency that serves the transgender community. At this point. You could be thinking what? Yeah. In many ways, it's a contradiction. But David, thanks the blended brand of masculinity. He's living out is not unusual influenced by traditional ideas of manhood, but also being informed by a lot of the recent progress made with regards to gay rights women's rights. So I think in some way, I am maybe an a more heightened contradiction. But I think a lot of men live as similar life. David. Here's a good bit of that complexity in the voices of sports talk radio. And he's an expert. He wrote a book on the subject. It's called beer babes and balls masculinity in sports talk radio he said that really fast when want you to miss that title. Here. He is again slowed down. It's called beer babes in boss masculinity. In sports, talk radio, not a typical title for. What is in fact, a scholarly book? Published by academic press. Nyland did lots of listening to sports talk radio and applied content analysis. He interviewed people who work on and listen to sports talk shows in particular, he focused on the guy we heard at the top of this episode, currently the number two sports talk radio host in the whole country. Jim Rome of CBS sports. Jim Rome became famous on a national level for his brother on Neanderthal. Macho speech a lot of what he calls talking smack for any much like insulting others getting the upper hand, and he was known for insulting a quarterback for the Rams at the time. Jim ever referring to him as Chrissy the tennis player feminizing him because he didn't. Stay in the pocket and get hit. She I'm going to have you on the show. Jim. Thank you. Shut. Dak Chris Everett. Good to have you on the show. What you know? You've been calling me that for about the last five years now two years actually twist. Well, Jim Rome, salted by Shem ever on a live show ESPN two. But if you call me, Chris Evert to my face one more time. One more time. We've caught one more time. We'd better stay take a station break. Chris. That was Jim Rome back in nineteen ninety four. But as David says, people aren't just one thing, and sometimes they evolve. So I thought he was interesting to interrogate in to analyze because at the same time in terms of his promoting these traditional sexist macho ideas, he became known for his support of gay athletes and not tolerating homophobic speech on his program. Well, let's go the phones go to Buford. South carolina. Neil. Here's Rome on his radio show almost twenty years after the Jim Everett incident in two thousand thirteen leading a discussion about gay players in pro football. You know, we've been listening tall this gay sports stuff. And. Yeah, NFL, and I wanted to bring up how come we haven't talked about any maybe some of the lesbian types of stuff that go on maybe in. Soccer or softball or women's basketball or any of the uncomfortableness that might be going on in that locker room live. We just singled out the men. What do you mean? What are you talking about? What what should we be talking about that? We're not talking about. Well, it's just I just feel like, you know. Two guys can go ahead and watch a lesbian something, and they would like it. But you would never find a woman watching two guys and enjoy that. Stupidity is telephone call. You don't like. What I do not enjoy is the stupidity of that telephone call. That's what I don't enjoy. What you talking about? I understand that. This is going to be a very difficult conversation for you to handle and have but you need to do better than that. Rome is not some overtly sensitive public radio type, and he's nobody's political activist. But he often plays the grownup in the room when somebody calls in with a question comment, that's bigoted or clueless about sexual orientation about women myself in a position where a girl at come up to me. And I was one of the linebackers on our team. I think to myself I feel any guy if I I have to rape girl, just to get her into bed or sex with or whatever it's not worth it. Somebody's athlete. It's not. For the last time rape is not having sex rape is committing a crime. A violent crime or about race. What's the absolute a Colt fascination with Kogyo and Saint Louis? They're both talking dumps in the midwest. And the only thing that both these cities are known for his crime crack and having more black people been Tarzan flick. Are you freaking kidding me? I don't need that crap on my radio show. So what is Rome have to say about the biggest and longest running politically loaded. Sports story of our time the mostly black NFL players kneeling for the national anthem. Here's Rome on his show in may two thousand eighteen the protests are not about the national anthem. They're not about the flag. They're not about the military and to me to claim that they are is pretty ignorant. The idea that the players are making a statement that the nation is not living up to the values represented by the flag is somehow disrespectful to the flag is just beyond me because that's not what they're saying. I mean, whose idea was it for Colin Kaepernick to kneel in the first place. Green beret, Texas Longhorn Seattle Seahawk Nate Boyer Nate Boyer gave him that idea. It was born out of a conversation that the two of them had a conversation were Boyer said the first. Words from capper Nick were to thank Boyer for his service. The players have made it pretty clear debt. Their concerns are with social injustice. Their concerns are with police brutality. It becomes a vehicle to have a fairly substantive discussion of social issues that couldn't be predicted a first reading sports radio. David Nyland says he listened to long intense discussions about domestic violence on sports radio after Ray rice and other football players were charged with salting their girlfriends and their children men who was miss sports radio were having discussions about an issue that the otherwise wouldn't have they wouldn't have in another John is they're not going to lectures at the university. Sponsored by you know, the woman gender studies department. So I think that is important to acknowledge so yeah, Nyland says sports talk radio is a kind of refuge for a lot of men a place to go, and relax and talk guys stuff away from the demands of shifting culture. And for some that. Does mean behaving like well. This is host Josh NS. If you years ago talking with a co host about the model Kate Upton the day after she appeared on their show to talk about her interest in a question, ever, pleasure. Never pleasure. Her orally. That's the next question. So yes, sometimes these guys are absolute pigs on the air, but sports radio also seems to be a place often where men get together to try to figure out how to be. After listening to hours of sports talk. And especially the Jim Rome show, I compiled a short list of lessons for being a guy that I thought I heard on those shows Iran them past professor, David Nyland, he approved. He agreed. I was on the right track. So here they are first rule have something to say, and for God's sake. Say it emphatically don't offer it up as one possibility among others make pronouncement or as Jim Rome likes to put it have take don't suck. Here's David Nyland. There isn't people on the program. Like, I wonder if it's possible. Could it be this point? But I'm not sure what do you think? It's more just a very direct debate style. Make your point. And then Jim Rome decides whether that is a good tape. And then you're in the club, you're in the man club or not and you get bust out. You gotta speak confidently and with style. Don't be boring those standards apply to the occasional woman. Caller to hey, Rome. How are you? How are you? I wanted to talk to you about the guy and South Carolina yesterday when he called in and was -posedly taking kids dog outback shoot up. I mean. That would be like what he sucks. And now, I just hung up on you again. Joe lean not a good phone. Call jolyon. I'm an I'm trying I'm helping you. There are several million people listening on several hundred radio stations. And if you call up and say it room, I wanna talk about that guy that I heard on the program yesterday. He sucks was. So does your take you have to do better than that? Next rule. Do your job. Don't be Granpa Joe show, some integrity in short be a stand up guy about Iran nailed as h sheet or remember when we used to talk about how this was going to be the guy did help restored integrity to major league baseball. This is a guy you can believe in. This guy. Doesn't cheat. Finally, the last pair of rules, and these are big I don't be a loser. Don't be the wrong kind of guy that might sound like just another way of saying be a winner which spoiler alert that is the last rule coming next. But don't be a loser. Need some attention of its own. I have to say this surprise me more than anything in listening to sports talk and the Rome show in particular, the amount of time spent talking about the type of guy not to be. Jim, Adam home brew beer guy to the hated guy. You know, the guy snake guy, y'all know that guy, right? When you went to college was there not that one idiot with the snake in the dorm. There's always that one guy karaoke guy jersey guy, the grown man who wears football jerseys out and about the list goes on, you know, golf guy likes to fight guy. You know at the party guy. And you know, Jim Guy, we all know him. We all hate him the guy who rocks, the weightlifting gloves the gloves that he has to rebuild crow before every big set. It's a little daunting, isn't it? It's a minefield trying to figure out how not to be one of these loser types. But do you notice what I notice about the hated guys for me it brings back that complexity that David Nyland are expert in Sacramento talked about. Earlier on the one hand, there's this retrograde adolescent, who should we all shun kind of talk for Nyland. This kind of thing pretty much blows up the idea of the John Wayne rugged individualist American man, in many ways, men are just very much wanting to fit in there isn't much independence fitting in with the other with the guy code or the broke owed. But at the same time a lot of the guys Rome hates are the old school. Traditionally masculine dudes, the guy in the sports car who pulls up beside you on the freeway and wants to race who do you think that is to give corvette guy or this one handshake guy? The Bonecrusher shaking. Somebody's hand is a greeting. It's a formality. It is not a tough man's competition. I know you think you're stashing some sort of alpha dog status, we get it. You're tough. Good for you. Can I have my freaking handback? Please. Rome said that on the radio before Donald Trump became president and established himself as possibly the world's most ridiculous handshake. Finally, the most important rule of all be a winner. Be the top dog be the guy. Here's Rome a few years ago talking about the basketball player Dwight Howard, who's trying to decide at the time. Whether to stay with the Los Angeles, Lakers or move to a smaller market team with less pressure. The fact that he hasn't come right out and said, I wanna be here, and I wanna dominate. I wanna be I wanna be the face of the franchise. All of that tells me he's not sure he can handle it. And he's not sure he wants it. And if he's not sure that's not a guy that I would trust you have to have a kill or be killed mentality in a willingness to grind. And I haven't seen that from him either the fact that he wants to look around and see what else is out. There tells me he has now what it takes to be the man in LA, if the one to beat a guy, we know it. See it's not just about being a great player or team player. It's about making yourself the unquestioned leader. Jim Rome himself is comfortable being the guiding his show reportedly earns him tens of millions of dollars a year and the way he presides as host. You'll never doubt. He's in charge. So are most sports talk guys like Jim Rome because he sounds like a lot of the men. I know actually, right. I mean, they love sports and they have strong opinions. But they don't hate women or gay people. Regular guy's not the guys that I usually here on talk radio who sound like they're performing an album de roller something. Well, you know. Of course, there's a whole range among sports talk hosts just like among regular like talkradio hosts, right? We heard the clip from the jackass talking about Kate Upton and those guys are out there. But my impression and David Nyland would back this up is that Rome is not unusual these days among the top sports talk shows, there would be more people like him among the most popular shows than like the guy. Right. The other guy, and that's one kinda hopeful takeaway, I think from this that the messages of feminism at least some of those messages. Are reaching into most corners of society by now in even this one lots of men are at least wrestling with them. And you know, it is interesting to hear how Jim Rome himself evolved from his macho bad boy fighting in the studio days of the nineteen nineties again in some ways, he's clear now in swatting away, rape, culture, talk and homophobic, talk from his callers and racist talk. Right. But now we've each used the phrase in some ways and talking about Jim Rome's feminists have Lucien because at the same time. There are other features of his show like that debating style that he insists on right? Each caller is basically accepting a challenge to make the most thorough -tated declaration. You can and to do it with like, it's you call up, and you deliver a little speech. Yeah. And to do it with flair insult to your debating opponent. Some other guy who has a different opinion about who's the best. Player or whatever it is. Insults are encouraged and rewarded necessary. I mean, I don't think anyone would be stake that for conversation. I mean, in by the way, I saw guy wearing a t shirt that said if she says we need to talk run, but on Rome show, he has heard manned splitting into a competitive sport. I mean, even the callers are separated into winners and losers. He actually calls his show the jungle welcome to the jungle. And that's a really big part of traditional American masculinity. That seems to go unquestioned in Jim rooms world a be a winner. Life is a contest and you better win. Yeah. And I should say, by the way, Jim Rome declined. My interview invitation through his publicist, but this is the big idea that I think we need to talk more about this. Where are you in the pecking order dude thing there are so many ramifications to this perceived different? Between men and women men are competitive women are collaborative and cooperative on average, recognizing always that these are generalizations that don't apply to every individual. Serena Williams is seriously competitive, but trust me just about every woman out. There will tell you it is real. I mean, it's a thing this need to be somebody to be a success and to be seen as a success by the people around you many if not most men seem to feel that in a particularly urgent way that's tied up with gender. Well, as as a man, I'm just going to say, the struggle is real, right? The imprint that you get as a dude in our culture speak for myself. I got it. Right. I I've recognized for many years, and it's a lifelong challenge to loosen its grip and try to guided by other more healthy motivations. But yeah. The imperative to. Chievo to excel and to get outside recognition of your achievements Buddhist. Teachers talk about the comparing mind. Yeah. And if Buddha was talking about at twenty six hundred years ago, this shows that it's a very deeply human in eight tendency, this tendency to measure yourself against other people and men do not have not believe on it. Neither does American culture for sure. Frankly, it's not always a bad thing. It is okay. To be inspired by others to be better and do more, but lots of cultures throughout history have recognized oversized ego and excessive competitiveness as character. Flaws. Something to watch out for in ourselves American culture, practically sanctifies competitiveness as great virtue, especially from it. We celebrate the rugged individual the Marlboro man, and we've got this hyper competitive capitalist. Konami with you know, with its yawning gap between winners and losers. And how we celebrate the winners. Right. The superstar athletes the tech billionaires the movie stars. We're going to win so much. We're gonna win at every level. We're gonna win economically. We're gonna win with the economy. We're gonna win with military. We're gonna win with healthcare for veterans. We're going to win with every single facet. We're gonna win so much. You may even get tired of winning. And you say, please, please. It's too much winning demand. We elected president in two thousand sixteen with a large majority of white men's votes doesn't just talk like that. No he shows and even says in effect that for him. It is about winning no matter what remember that speech. He gave it a rally right after the Brett cavenaugh Christine Blasi Ford hearings. How did you get home? I don't remember. How'd you get there? Remember where is the place? I don't remember how many years ago was I don't know. New mimic, professor Lasi for you mimicked had I not made that speech. We would not have won on sixty minutes Lesley Stahl challenge. Trump about the way he treated professor for it. And finally, Trump just cut off the questioning what you know what I'm not gonna get into it because we won. It doesn't matter. We won. Trump is downright cartoonish. But this be the winner messaging is everywhere in our culture that guy all the TV ads. The guy with the square jaw the sunglasses, the stylish clothes the beautiful woman. Gazing at him longingly, the gorgeous luxury car he is in control, right? He's got this. And somehow it presented is though. It's effortless for him. If you're a real man that is what your life is like. And by the way, Jim Rome, sports, talk host is pretty much that guy. I imagine. Most of his listeners are not they're not wearing tailored suits living in a mansion in California showing up in cigar aficionado magazine, which he did. But his fans can associate themselves with that life with that image listening in and they can call in to talk with Jim himself about how that other guy over there. The guy. With the snake in his dorm room. He's not a cool guy like us. He's a loser. And it's not just about success or being cool. This is all deeply tied up with domination power and control. It's not just being the top dog in your profession or whatever. But also traditionally at least in your relationships, especially if you're a heterosexual male your relationships with women when you boil it down. That's what patriarchy is a master servant relationship. And to the extent that a man soaks up that deep down belief that he's supposed to be an dominant position with respect to women. Of course, that leads to all the toxic stuff we've talked about throughout the men series. And you talked about these ideas with Terry real psychologist therapist and author who we heard from in the last episode. Yeah. In the last couple of episodes, we've talked about how masculinity is defined by what it negates by the things that you must not be as a man. Not week. Not a woman not gay not vulnerable or to state that last one as a positive trait. You're supposed to be invulnerable like superman who's literally impervious to bullets were to challenge in Black Panther with that amazing protective suit, right or the movie in which Bruce Willis becomes a super strong superhero. It's called unbreakable. Right. Here's Terry real to lie. Patriarchy is dominion. The lion. Patriarchy is higher that you are above the world above nature, and you're imposing your will like a doctor on a patient or mechanic on a car. You are above the system. This is called hubris. The Greeks understood it, you Bris or overweening pride was the essence of all Greek tragedies. This is where the men fell was by their grandiosity and pride. You are not in charge of the universe. You are not in control of the universe. And it's actually a trap, isn't it? If a man buys into this idea that he has to be in control and be invulnerable. He is bound to fail. I mean, even the most successful men can't win all the time. Everybody comes crashing down eventually even in everyday life. And even if you are the CEO or the national champion in this or that, and you're generally riding high today, you know, deep down that you don't have it together. All that. Well, you're muddling through your sure as hell not invulnerable Terry real says that reality that knowledge leads to shame men have underlying shame all men have underlying shame because we all live ally the lie is that we're invulnerable. When in fact, we're not we're Uman, but the lie is that were in charge of nature were in charge of result. We're in charge or whether we. Close the deal or not when we're not in charge of shit. We're in charge of ourselves on a good day. That's it. So all the most men are trying to live up to this thing. Which is basically, you know, when I say, I tell guys running away from your vulnerability is like running away from your rectum. It has a way of following matter where you go. I figured that a podcast on men would have to bring butts at some point. But seriously, this is the part of masculinity that I feel so much empathy for this pressure to have the answer all the time to be stoic to be unmoved. I think this is part of what's behind man's planning in my opinion. It looks like a guy talking down to a woman telling her the answer. But I feel like it comes from decades of being expected to have the answer, and the sort of bravado menus to cover up the insecurity of not knowing just becomes hard to say. I don't know. That's a shame. We should be able to say the words Terry real uses for talking about this issue are shame and grandiosity. He says a couples therapist he spends a lot of time trying to help men come down from grandiosity as he puts it and to make shift from hierarchical thinking either, I'm winning or. I'm losing to a relational way of being when you shift from the dominant hierarchical thinking to relational thinking, you shift from linear thinking to ecological thinking, you're not above the system. You're humble sub component part of the system. You live inside of it, and is in your interest to keep it clean and healthy. Keeping the system clean and healthy. Whether the system you're talking about is a relationship say a marriage or whether you're talking about the literal eco-system. Yeah. And Terry real is talking about that to the delusion of dominance over the feminine, including mother nature will kill us. Let me be clear about the stakes. If we continue to believe that we are technologist above the rule of nature nature will prove otherwise, and the consequences will be severe and they're coming. He's talking about climate change, which is here and already doing lots of damage and promises to be much more catastrophic. Of course, feminists have made this point before, but the impulse to dominate which is a very patriarchal way of being in the world is the same impulse whether. You're dominating women or the people who work for you or other people, you decide are different from you. Or the natural world women have said it for a long time. But apparently if has not been said enough, apparently judging from the way were behaving as a society in the face of an environmental catastrophe that we're making for so and we have to turn it around people. I mean, it's time for a change a big change, and that changes mostly a matter of policy when you're talking about something like climate change. But for individual men to get over our egos are needed to win to get recognition from outside of ourselves. That's personal work healthy self esteem. Which is what I teach men, which is rare in our culture, healthy self esteem comes from the inside out who's because you're here, and you're Uman and your breathing and your essential. Worst cannot be added to can be subtracted from the can't be better or worse from the guy who left to right. Or the woman or the gender non binary person or the child or whomever. Next time the season. Finale some takeaways from the series and thoughts on what to do about it. All John Barth, PR X is our editor music by Alex west. And and by Guinean Sasha, gallery music and production help from Joe Augustine of narrative music scene. On radio comes from the center for documentary. Studies at Duke University and PR.
Ep 2.30: Justin Meran on his love for Orlando, Iraqi NT & talking hair plugs with Wayne Rooney
"I've always and girls welcome back Sam's army episode. Got Him just guessing at this point. Say Two Point. Thirty or so So as everybody knows the world is a crazy mixed up place at this point in time so we are throwing the regular structure of the podcast out the window. There's no gains review. There's no games to preview none of that so we are going to lean hard into interviews. And we're GONNA PROBABLY GONNA Knicks once a week Format we're just GONNA start throwing interviews out as soon as we get done. So that's what you guys can expect going forward for the next few well. I don't know how long that's hopefully just a few weeks We'll see but for this time. We have of course Eric Gary Back how you doing. I'm doing well EEG. I should call you by the way I shake told you ten times but it's fine. I'm still very slow on our end. This week's interview. It's not this but this podcast interview is with Justin Miramar now of the Oursel- and you've you've been through the MLS. People know you know who you are at this point. I think how you doing. Thanks for having me on our pleasure and you also I should point out. You are a regular for the Iraqi national team as well we will. We'll get into that. I play cool pretty cool feature but let's start with corona updates. How you guys doing. What's what's life like for free these days Justin The first week it was like I just bought a house two days before everything went all over the place. So on lockdown like it's not bad furniture combination and sets. The one week goes by starting at the house together. Have nothing to do and now losing my mind back in Michigan. She probably can't come here she's a pharmacist. So she trying to help in any way shape or form a non basically four night at night for hours overnight. Afifa during the day just Kinda Day. Trade became this little day trader killing my time. We'll hutcheon stocks read about it. I've never done that so interesting. Timeline volatility are you. They add Arabic class. One on one skype is just trying to stay busy. Turn learn things and it's definitely not easy but are you staying active like can you get a treadmill or something. They just actually brought us. A bike brought me a bite. Got a nice affinity basement so I got. I bought a bunch of equipment will work baseman than I go. Hiking is hiking me national game. We went out or a little over seven miles and still fryer. What finally four days later. My quads kind of settled down but for honesty. It was the first time ever hiked a trail like that was super steep and For Four Days. Honestly my quads. Were were finished. Different kinds of this bro. On we got to a point where about a Mile Mile Little Ra- mile from fifty against the top and it was just so much snow that we couldn't even have the proper attire and Ashton. You know he's like I can't feel my fingers and then we start. Going down was actually worse than climbing. Because we kept slipping. We know the proper shoes. I was like rolling all over the place falling down. The trailer was turned to be eventful but Salt Lake City Spree. Pretty Pretty Awesome that aspect the outdoors. And you know were we live out here. In daybreak Salt Lake City. There's a lot of trails run. Run run around the lakes so it's like every other day we go hiking running and then kind of cycling downstairs restart This week so housing sounds like a dream. We're stuck in Chicago here. Can't even leave our frigging apartment little cubicle here. We got to sing outside the window. That's all we got. We had Whitney Houston. Everyone stands in their apartment waves. Flights and shit issue got that Bro. Yeah you're because you're down in the high rise up north in the near north side but it's more like a neighborhood feel so thankfully least. I PREFER NOT HAVING THAT WHITNEY HOUSTON. Any type VIBE. All right well. Let's let's SORTA roll through. This chronologically will probably meander off the path a little bit but started off. Let's go through Career so there was do. Co. and University of Michigan sort of walk us through their. You know how to go how to work Do you have good time? Was College. Like the worst. I mean look I was. You might know you might now. Eric knows the story. He's heard a hundred times the hand But Yeah I was done. Playing soccer after school candidate recruited was moved Arizona for work and then an alumni of the apple pie college Sauvage playing in the men's league with my brothers. I have three older brothers to them. Still actively play immensely Any asking school and I told him I was going to try and walk on Arizona. State football team. The kick knows what I did in high school as well and Michelle Yavapai long story short to national titles. No big deal national here no big deal. Sorry about that We'll try. We'll try harder next time. And you know honestly the coolest Mama probably out of all of it. Was you know you're in the backyard of Oakland University? Where Steve Clarke one Michigan State University of Michigan and You know the surrounding schools in the big ten and you don't get recruited nobody and then all of a sudden you know the Po box at my Juku Community College. You know Mike. My mail was so full that the mailman actually had to bring all these like the letters and the programs. You know what the school said. You know what I mean. So they're like these big big packets. You even care to look at them and that was probably the best part is not gonNA my dorm the mailman full of stacks of like just offers and letters and so that was probably like the coolest I look back on you know till this day was. I went from kind enough into numerous full rides. Actually took a visit to you. I see you guys neighborhood And then I ended up getting a full ride in Michigan. I was committed to Ohio state verbal than they're kind of like eighty percent. Ohio State Eighty Michigan. My older brother went to state. So it was a Buckeyes Elmer went to Michigan State. He's a sparty so like and I try to figure out where I WANNA go. Edition was on the day. It was you know my uncle came with me because my family is there is on there. Have you signed today? Kinda will get a full ride We didn't have you know the economy kind of hurt. My family allowed show was like look. I need to back in late so I need to. Just take a slow ride in and go with it so. Kinda from nothing to something in two years. So obviously I'm very ankle for by college coaches and kind of given me a platform to display perform and Some needed I was a late bloomer. Like Gee I used to run to the mailbox every day I would open it and that's it would just like it would certainly be coughing us. There was nothing I was like. I'll be dragged down by this Baptist College semi something. Yeah I mean yeah I guess we're both including long locks this guy probe rose. Just keep going just a matter of time unless you go back. And they're like okay. We're GONNA get the hairlines later Berkeley Yellow Sam whenever you want to divert his toes lettuce and we can talk about Tijuana. It's amazing shit was perfect good. It looks good. I WANNA lie. That's phenomenal well. Does your basically your TV. Where the you know the guy the model disorder like he goes swimming and then like jumps up and does it like the hair flip and then there is like it's like my real you. Yeah I used to have long hair and then I saw my shit on national television. I was like Oh my God. That's just Buster Shave Label. Go-to put everyone on blast Sharon is listen. He's only stories. Whatever do long story short. They're like doing like Dabo gangbangers for the crew in this Dude Dafa Gaming beetlejuice ads in the locker room right there. Thirty Sierra Yeah. The whole team wanted what possessed. I'm whatever did no respect but Anyways best back to the task at hand we can get to the Just went to Michigan and played forty obviously but also kicked a Michigan Sam. I didn't know that which is which is which is kind of nuts. Yeah how cool I got to You're alone team for the first season. I transferred as junior on the team and then it just came too much. It was a senior kicker. Retreive is like come back next year so then season ended started spring season during the team won the starting job after the spring spring game. I was lights out. Bro just focused. I don't know if I miss well. Maybe missed wandering the spring game and then the cool. I mean one of the WanNa put the suicide a moment of like Holy Shit. I'm actually here. Retried is trying to figure out with football schedule. The soccer schedule. They're both in the fall trying to like work out. Like if I play this game in my flying to the soccer game on my shit like this big talk so we later find out like three days. Later that at at big universities Erica's nobody received by a big universities. Tight football and basketball are like to upper hand sports. So if you have a full ride from on a secondary spore you must obtain a full ride from the From the upper love sport so retreive was willing to give me the full ride since I won the job in the spring game but basically was like. You're done with soccer if you can make the game. If we don't play like on Wednesday or something or Sunday whatever like Oh four so that was probably the hardest thing because Michigan Tucker brought me in and then you know. Now I'm having make decisions you'll van. Football is like or the biggest programs in the country even though we start been so good for the last eight years. Yeah Spit Great. Living at Columbus really helps no another side note That was dope obviously Justin Columbus. I knew all about that and Seattle scrawny. Ask THEM FOOTBALL. Pads was kind of crazy side. Note back to the fact of the soccer field. Have you when you get. If you get time Sam anyone listening to this you got to check out the UM highlight video on youtube at some of the sickest shit you'll ever see do gold dangerous man. It was him and Sunni. Saudi played the MLS other Arab trill top. Sam I'm not kidding to be fifty five sixty made bowl between the three of us we combined for fifty five or fifty or something these stack up to like. Epl goals the season. It's ridiculous I've never seen it. We always talk about all our boys like everyone's got one suny. First game hits like a thirty yard freekick and then he hits like a forty yard banger gets Akron then his brother in overtime against Michigan State. It's a left-foot volley from forty five and then your boy final four first minute game on the no big deal anyways ought to just check it out later. It's ridiculous Michigan highlights. All right all right I got. I got nothing better to do. So yeah and then I dressed with the first game against you you. Can you know running out of the tunnel hitting the banner like one hundred seven thousand ten thousand and then not realizing Bored as hell. I'm just sitting here holding a helmet like I WANNA put my helmet down. Camp at your out went down to sit there. I played uconn. Terrible team like halftime. When my warm-up kicking all this sick like you just kick in warm and then after the game was you know had to make a decision so the trade city is so big so by the time I get to Richard's office although at the top which has a balcony that looks over the training field by the time? I told him that I made my decision to play soccer and that I couldn't play football. You know I just if I if I could duval that'd be great but I'm GonNa be sacrificed by the time my little ass walks my ass to the to the locker room. My Shit was in a black garbage. They called how fast and he's got. It was my name tag police over. All the practices couldn't steal helmet. I couldn't steal one of my game like nothing. Four ish looking at again. Mom You gotta steal the ship before you tell Avocado come off guard. Yeah it was I'm I'm so bummed because I would have loved to like cut my home number thirty eight Michigan Small Cup mouthguard extra small cup kicker anyways from from your from your football moment and your years of playing soccer did you get more phone numbers from being on the football team or on soccer team for years. True story this is a great start true store. I'm played two sports kind of feel cool tasteless. You know the name. You're not no. Yeah Recorder back the quarterback. Yeah yeah this guy's like Joe Denard Robinson like amazing shoelace. I mean we dedicate the day. Everyone on campus was walking with shoelaces. Untied like legend as little hit one. Big Game Against Notre Dame Eric. I'm dawn an Mike McGee. Mike useless in that domino's that's why and So then take texts me and I'm like I might with You'll teach sexy J. Some girls through and I like pro quarterback this when you call me for I should call you you just that like pokes a hole in like when I think of Eddie One quarterbacks lifestyle you just like to totally blew that shit up like for me like no. I'm sure he had his ways but maybe it was just a dry week or saw desert. You didn't bring anybody through the moral nine girls me my girls Wayne. How do we talk probably a six pack? Twelve pack twenty four hundred case. We'll be doing how many we talking like. Roller will sixty me. My five girls tae yet one of his boys and it'll be like the girls. Were like Yo. This is weird. I WANNA play like Mario Mario. Kart or soften drinks like hot. No wonder it didn't pan out. Yes all right well so you you know you're talking about how you you had the offers from Ohio state in you. You you know ended up with Michigan. You obviously had a draw somewhere in fate. You know fate withdrawing Columbus because you got drafted in the first round by the crew in two thousand and eleven or so. Walk us through what that. Tell me just like talk to me. Because that's my dream come. True is the number one to get drafted by. Nmls number to play for the suit up for the national team to like you know. Wet Dreams so tell me what it was like same. Never I was asking. You WanNa talk about the biggest like I'm over two right now. Eg You WANNA talk about a Guy. We'll get to but his first trading. I couldn't I couldn't I can beat Arizona. I remember I'm looking over like I was okay with jumping. That level was tough but like I'm looking over who is this guy dude. Scrawny legs scrawny. Legs don't like Uppercut Skycam. Pass nervous not that I mean he started shining years later anyway. It's just about me. It was actually really nerve wracking the combine. I was okay I I was. I think I was really good in the next two days I was next. Today's was pretty bad. It was just you know it's it's hard you're trying to showcase yourself or dribbling to modules like Dan you know I had a really good senior year. My Fall in the draft. Where am I going to go because I I tell everyone till this day if I got drafted to the galaxy maybe probably don't make it this far in Maine or read bowls or Anri at the time in Rapa Marquez and I mean I was asked fragile still still fragile mental so fragile back then I would just got destroyed. So it's actually salt. Lake was ready to TAKE ME MY AGENCY. Yo which is ironic than I had a really good media Jason At the combine they wanted me out of the development contract Already signed a senior contract with the with the League show. They took a timeout traded their pick and then in fifteen km Look going out San Jose like sit Kelly. San Jose Trades with Columbus for Steven Lenhart picks me so it was kind of a weird day for me for like from the First Time. Paixao just sitting there eleven twelve and thirteen came and it was like going out in our timeout. It no trade. The pig fourteenth day was Chiba. Fifteen whole thing happened so it was kind of weird if it was a huge blessing. Columbus Robert. They kind of just let all the older players go. And then duncairn Frankie Cleaner Potato Area Jason Garrett went to a I think Houston and that opened the number nine which means everything to me like number since I was a kid so like I couldn't guy rusty global. Eg's best friend. There's a story there. You're like that telling it. As a lot lots of stories there tonight I was like Buzzer but Columbus was. It was a dream come true for many years of a lot of love for for that city man. Yeah so you were. There obviously had a lot of success. You guys play together you. I assume maybe maybe had a beer together. Sometimes I we're roommates careers for three years. All right so what we will. Let's go the other way around. What was living with edgy. Like you need. It's more like Egypt because for the first three years. Meantime really didn't dress much. We were like I don't know hot and cold we would. You know suit up usually like the first three years. It was the same for us so it was like the first ten games. Like in the stands at home games on the road when they're on the road we're going out to the bars Just don't what to do. Just this is what was Was I don't like having someone like this idiot. To kinda just mega everything. Lighthearted Kinda keep you sane and was was was needed as such. We're both single just love and little turtle up in Up in western well tell pro pro soccer. Obviously you're in a town that has a a you know a professional. It had a professional hockey team in the time too. So it wasn't like you guys were one sport pro city Rowing College team or high school team. Wherever we want you guys crew you guys are all crew now. That's what I was GONNA get. You gotTA highest state. There was obviously some big football dudes basketball as well and then you got the hockey team. Where did you know worded the crew fall in the pecking order of you? Know if you guys are all in line at the same club well I heard this. I don't know if it's true or not from previous owners from Not The new owners. But the what's his house Austin record the president. I remember. We had a meeting in my life. Joe Like to have like more incentives at Games to GET PEOPLE OUT THERE. Cheaper tickets and gala Braatz. I mean e g no that the browns are unbelievable. 'cause the stands for so many years is worried. He's like look. We did a survey about the crew caves and it was like what would you rather do? And it was like the Columbus Zoo. The movie theaters the crew was like back what we were up against like every weekend you know family choosing like. Oh we're GONNA Komatsu grades or You know we're GonNa go to the movies or like I s nice summer night in June art. Let's go to the cooking so like when you look at you compare. It's just comparable a so. They didn't they didn't even ask the question whether it was like Ohio State. Sports or you know the goal has safe right. State horse was different. Lines were aligned with the monkeys you rather go to target Walmart or the crew game. I mean so oath to God I hope to God Stadium and I'm sure it will change will change a lot of. It's in a great location. Were by a lot of bars a lot of them. You know places to eat. Hopefully it's just a new wave of the new generation But you know it's still. He's still got the nordic. You still got that you know Ray fan base in the corner. That's just what was what was playing for For Gregg Berhalter like the life changing man I detected. I saw a picture like that game. They'll just hog I. I love the through and through Great Relationship Outfield on the field. He pushed me in so many ways that I didn't think I had any or maybe see the game in ways that I never imagined And also with Gregg was Josh Wolff Guy. That was the head coach sometimes. You can't be as personable when when you're playing on so having a guy like Josh will to supplement Greg in kind of have that relationship where he kind of has similar humor to you know a lot of us especially back in Fort Children. Fourteen and fifteen with the group we have. So you know we'd have golf outing sometimes or just like just the banter and he would you know be involved and we just felt you know. I just understood both in on a level that I never had with with many coaches in in my career so I still use a lot of the principles that they taught me. And I think if honestly if Greg maybe never took that job and brought wolf more. I don't know what my years of my best years of fourteen to seventeen those four years straight up you know dominating that left side. I don't know that would have been possible because I just never understood the game at a level that they were teaching it and I never talked a lot of the principals. They were applying to the group. Yeah the build on that you know he said you know that we were lucky with the Columbus an eleven and that's true because we got our start but to his point without Greg in fourteen. I don't know how many of us would have gone on to do what we did. I mean we were kind of all. These survived an Roeken broken college kid. Basically that the Columbus drafted and just picked up because they just need to roster spots and we all just on like when July first came. We're Ruma three years. You'd better believe are acid with partying that we got picked up because they were all semi guaranteed contracts deadline. You Know Sam so when we finally when Greg came. It's like you know not to not to go on a tangent. But he you know. He prolonged our careers. He made us into players. We didn't think we could be and you know he kinda sat us on different like you know. Steve mentioned last week as well. He just opened our eyes to a whole new. Ho- new Mice on a game and you know just an obvious he went on for years in Columbus. And you know and then he went to Orlando and Atlanta in Salt Lake. You guys still playing coach in the League. Without Greg. I don't know I don't know if that's even not happening so I mean just even little things like now we still have a very should Senator Clinton. I sent him clips here and there. When when I was with Atlanta they moved wingback first person. I called in on having having that guy on your side is just great to have that resource to that comfort to nine like this. Guy's coaching our country. And you can you shoot He'll respond and he ended up calling me is on his flight to Europe and called me talk about. Twenty minutes about tendency tendency. That should see playing wingback. Should BE AGGRESSIVE GOING FORWARD. You know outta limit my transition moments. Abcd you name it. suggests overall. He's even though he's not my coach. We still still help me in our and other ways which is Great. Will so you know? You're you're on twitter. You probably hear a lot of chatter among the twitter ati soccer or no with Berhalter in the US. Jim Right now. So what? What's Yeah we'LL GET THE ORLANDO. Don't worry we'll get there when you see when you see like soccer twitter. Just absolutely hammering. Halder what is it? What are your thoughts on that? What are you sort of reaction to it? Yeah it's hard. Not right because from Eric's Viewpoint myself many the players I played under him in a we. See the effects. Greg Ditto our group But also greg had us every single day so and for years for leading Grit five-year particularly for you know five years. Yeah and you just see. I think what's difficult is. Greg is so detail orientated that it I think it gets difficult for him. When guys are coming in from all over the place and he's trying to implement these principles but I think I mean I still believe in. I still think he's GonNa get read their plan pretty good. I think I think I think. Honestly they're just lacking maybe that quality of you know just either up top Jesse's done pretty well but just having Someone to either supplement. Josse or for someone to start adjusted. Come in or just all across the board. I think it's just adding more dynamic players obviously Christian and things like that and maybe a little bit more by obviously the the game nowadays players different deny. We're talking about the other day I think it's I think he's doing his best as he could. I think it's not gonNA he's not GonNa just take over and all of a sudden they're going to be unbelievable not and I think that's the issue. Maybe with anything in our country is only make a change. We feel like all right. Let's hit the panic button. If we don't execute at this level but I'm sure he he sees things that he's done can do better than you know. He's his biggest credit than I'm sure he's doing everything he can possible to to make the team better. I know people for sure before jumping to from one national team the US to to Iraq. You gotta give me at least one story about the crew equipment manager and each. I know you got like it. Sounds like you got about a million of them. You gotTa give you tell. The story is and this is not a knock on rusty but Rothstein. He's been there for awhile. He's like big Blackhawks Fan. He's a Chicago Guy. He's a smoker. You know he enjoys his few cocktails here and there but he's a die hard true true guide he takes care of us but one day he was in his little shed and those that don't know rusty rusty missing hand. It's kind of like a little like a little nub but it's it's cool guy pulled it off you use it. It's no problem you know big not at all and he's you know it's all good but one day he came out of the came out of the little remember that just what the big knife he cut his hand and there was just gushing blood and there was blood all over his hand. So if you didn't know you would have thought that like. He basically ripped off clip off his hand. We had all these young young guys with us these trials and he walks out and he's got his hands all believe and shit. He's marching around. But I got a cigarette house mildly. Were dying in the locker room. He was a good guy he always liked was like never. I've never met a guy that drake so much smoke. So much worse so yeah. He did everything he lied. Too much to. Everything in stride took care of us man honestly. He was a part of our team for sure. All hope is listening. If Tucker Listener guys well it was. Adleman all of those guys to care for sharing so what was rusty doing with like a machete. What the fuck is a story behind that? It was a monster. It was a monster machete did I don't know I think I think he has had a forward when the ball over the net and you would like Q. Like Chop Chop the weeds. I think that's what he wants to quit. The Guy who was the guy was special to every day. There was a surprise every day or something. I didn't pay for like Jersey or something in the Ross. I kicked fifty bucks back. We USED TO PAY CASE. The bearded beer was like no. You're good Figure out a way to wipe the Extra Jersey. 'cause you know you get like five out to pay for it was due to say. Bush light six eight bucks six bucks a thirty three to thirty rack. Bush like full full five five piece kit. Mike do with this is is that from like post game exchanges or like family. You know. We're all outside or given jerseys up to speak to school. That are coming to the gauge. Oh look I'm pro calculus on that like I didn't even think about that but like how do you do the Calculus on the Post Game Changer? You like is this guy. Cooling-off DO I want his Jersey enough usually guys are on the League right obviously the first year. I'd probably change was nobody. Yeah and then as you get older you know. They traded with guys. You played with or you know friends that you knew you knew through through time or that. Yeah my only rule with that was I. Don't WANNA do. We lost because I didn't want to be the guy come in with jerseys. I was always scared of that. Plus I was pissed but we won. I was chasing dues. Robbie Keane soft snag. That guy's going through Mama Floor. Spit on it twenty jerseys. I don't know how to but like my game so I appreciate him so that's a good one. That's a great I got I got. I Got Lampard Pierpaolo via twenty Hold on hold on you clearly. Are you must have strategy strategy for this fully. Clearly you franchise like no Iraqis all right dude back whereas argument Jersey all right. Well there's a segue so you are Can we can we call you a regular now for the Iraqi national team at this point own strongly? Was something going on right. Yeah from November fourteen to guess November of the. What is it? Yeah nineteen now probably. Yeah I was a regular basic called up in every every fixture until recently. I was doubt doubt the worst hand possible. I didn't know how to I didn't know what was the best decision. Honestly it's unfortunate that myself in coaching the federation are kind of just at a standstill right now. But that's life you make decisions. That was Kinda we can get inactive you want but it was between Atlanta in Iraq. I had a gain sober six and then I had a game on the tenth with Iraq in in Iraq was the last game before the playoffs. Flying to the Middle East is very difficult. I think that's what everyone else are under estimates Toge underestimates Federation underestimates is a Lotta Are Either in Europe which is about a eight to ten hour flights the Middle East on and I'm around eighteen eighteen flight time maybe about torn five twenty four depending on how where I'm located in the state's asking me for meetings so I play on the six. The next flight for me in Atlanta is the seventh at nine PM so the center at nine PM fast. Forward eight hours is really the eight in Iraq so I will arrive till the Manit so the game the tenth and we play against Hong Kong. They're decent qualifier. Okay so I speak Frank devore about it was like look. You have another game in Cambodia. After buster after Iraq will let you miss the last game against England. Let you fly the fourth or fifth get there have proper time to rest prepare and play the game and then had you come back after that game to prepare for the playoff game. So we'll let you miss the one game if Iraq let you missed the second game against Cambodia Lesser Team. Thinking aren't perfect plan. I I'm shocked. Atlanta's let me leave before the window. So what happens? We call the borough Kohl's coach captain h The National Team. And they're like not both games or he doesn't come in all pro but I can play one game. You know like like if I ride on the ninth like I'm not GonNa play because I'm not GONNA put my body in that position. Travel Twenty four hours played day like we can't even we can't even fly from Atlanta to allay before you know what I mean. So that opened up this huge just issue And then from there was just one of those. They stopped calling me for. They felt like I was choosing club over country. I don't think they understood. Slowly position has in obviously with Atlanta Stay with them as well. You know ask. Are they going to figure it out? I loved Atlanta's amazing for me so I was just dealt with a difficult situation. Like there wasn't enough time for me to play in both looking back. Maybe I should have went back on it. Maybe I should have just went and done right by my country but you know in in the moment you you make decision that you feel is best than you know. God has reasons. Maybe something would happen. Who KNOWS So that was the sorry for the. Hey well it's it's an important story in sort of gives everybody some context. Now let's jump to the beginning. How did this even happen? How did you end up playing for the national team? Yeah Yousef Alcohol. Algae facebook X. Back Iraqi player search it was a it was a group of guys that are in the Middle East or Europe that were just trying to find Iraqi eligible players to represent the country and I was just a message. Honestly the message was high. Are You Iraqi? And I'm still friends with them. I was just playing with him. Two days ago like lower still very close so talk all the time and I I always think like. Why did I even respond to you? You get all these random messages you know May. Ag doesn't really know much about it. But I'm here now. Worries you're right you're right and I responded like yeah you know. Obviously both. My parents born raised up there Being Catholic Speak Kelvin. It's a different dialect Arabic from the north of Iraq so very cultured in love being Iraqi and You know raised in Michigan which is the largest Middle Eastern population outside of the Middle East. So I just didn't speak Arabic. Maybe that was the only like knock at the time so it was one of those just started a process on two years of getting documentation and it was like. My mom had most of her stuff. My father didn't and it was like family cared about my dad's paperwork and it was going through this just like I didn't think I was ever GonNa represent the country was just every month every two months of hurt. We need another piece document and this time you know. Isis is kind of controlling the concert. A little bit so now getting documents and like my family's like Yo you good my you. You're trying to really you know out there like look this is this is unbelievable experience and the like the final green light was someone finally got a hold of my father's baptism papers at the church in in Iraq in like was this like an Isis controlled territory. Or is this like. Yeah I think it was like a point where they kind of like slow down. It was just two years so this started yeah. I didn't get my started like the beginning to thirteen. I didn't get my first call up till November of two thousand fourteen in the Gulf Cup. But that's just some crazy stories. Man Volley ads where we're going so I never spoke. Arabic will kill the more Arabic. I can hold my own now so fly in Saudi Arabia on an American passport. They have my Iraqi passports. Finish everything like that so go in and give them a pass for those like Nah. Nah You know he's seen Saudi Arabia wearing like Dash is like the white Robes what's going on? What do you mean like somebody we go? And he's like royal chairs at the airport. These things are twenty four karat. Gold like thrones just like unbelievable ours. Don't I just see four guys? They're all speaking Arabic. Oh the rookie. Rakia off to talk on me foes not working. I'm sweating the the nationalist Job Why why fight though they give me why texting everybody using vibe at the time panicky freaking out there like Ron our way so they get there an hour later. I'm just sitting this this gold chair for one hour or these guys just speaking about me like oh it's over. Now he's known you Mom Dad Lobby. Thanks chat show giving my passport. Everything's fine this guy. Takes Him through back. Tunnel gives me the baggage thing. I don't even know where I went through. I don't know I did something. I never shoulda done room. I get Outta these stores cameras everywhere army. You're trying to interview me in Arabic Tummy descending Arabic. I have no vocabulary Harvick at the time and it becomes I say something in my language like which is it. Would you guys were nobody on Youtube? It's like one of the funniest videos because I say something like it's lucky that means like I don't know what you're saying rich but I've said it in a different language on these guys in this guy's like with the camera called me to see trump. I can't sing. Let alone talk. Are you good so so hit the Saudi Arabia to coach? I get there the day before the game get there so we get there and we're going to the mall. What first time in the Middle East and I HAVEN'T LEARNED THE MUSLIM CULTURE. Yams still adapting you know. I'm merely for Shana team. So obviously you're not American born so we go to the small I walk in. It's all it's all just women so security chasing us not just for women Sir leave the next mall and go go to the mall is like the greatest thing ever getting out of hotel. The malls like the coolest thing the mall. I'm inland. I'm like horror. We're GONNA eat psych. Subways they'RE MCDONALD'S PIZZA. Shop Pizza what to do. She has a flying at McDonald's. These fish sandwiches flying unlike we have gained at the airport. Nineteen of them are doing fish sandwiches. The other eight in large pizzas me like were representing our country. Where's the shabby? Where'S THE COPE? Like you know what I mean so I'm like complete culture shock so that finally get in line. I'm I'm to behind the order. All of a sudden freyer goes up on the on. The speaker. Little Cage comes out closed for thirty minutes while we pray we wanna eat an interest was like like I I just WanNa make eating. Fish sandwiches was the most wireless thing for me and then I learned that. They love fish sandwiches for McDonald's they'd love. Kfc They live with their seat like just KFC's got to them an all soda. So that's a parole delegates seated and then over the years finally got a shaft. We went to the Asia Cup. We brought our own coach and things started to get a little better than obviously the country. Money is very difficult to get their hands on. Because everyone's got their hand in the pod Just wild stories managed the whole fouls and traveling. You gotta give we we. Should I should give people just a little bit of context so like the Iraq war technically did not end until what two thousand eleven or so. I think it's beyond the Pale of our of of this podcast. We'll leave it at that But two thousand eleven like what two years later one year later you're basically being asked to come as an American COMPLA- for Iraq thing is. Greg calls me which is in this like so. I guess since I played travel. Soccer are still part of the US. I don't know the rules are that but like I had to. They had to like release me to play for Iraq. I don't know why. But so like Greg Coleman is like hey you know they're getting word you're gonNA play for Iraq like what am I going to January camp? This is happening when I'm ready to go November. He's calling me and I remember I was with my ex girlfriend at the time In her car. Get this call. Greg Joe January sh- while JANA camp. You will Iraq on Thursday now. Us Is Kinda come in now heard him play for Iraq polling ginger campaign. That's it you know And I made the right decision. You know Through the last five years. I'm sure I'm going to call back hopefully in the future but last year's countries I I've been to all of Asia Middle East and playing a big games playing in Asia. Cobb so it's often pretty. Surreal but yeah as an American Catholic Caldeans to play for the national team to be the second ever cushioned player the nationally pretty cool and you'll learn to love that country and they brought being as one of their own even. I wasn't born there. Pretty Surreal obviously that just like experiences the lower memories Galore but like what really stands out for you played for them for. What's five six years at this? So what really stands out is the most memorable experiences and they could be both like positive like you guys did some great things or experiences like am. I going to die like I never find anything which I get that question. All the time Never dangerous think. The media portrays the Middle East as some terrible place or terrorism year. I don't know we are not admitting into that but I feel like that's just out here whenever it was. Oh are you afraid yeah obviously had questions like Saudi Arabia trip but Saudi Arabia trip also opened my eyes when I would see young boys in In Saudi Arabia at the time was just obviously women will add a difficult time at their kind of all being which is great to see for all the women in Saudi Arabia. Able to drive now and things like that But it opened my eyes to see like these people have like. They don't have nearly what we have here. You know into Cedar Happiness to see that. They don't live with so much stress like the Iraqi man is known to like that like the the the usage is like a lazy man but not in the term. Will you call Lazy? It's just live life you just day by day. You're with your friends. Your drinking tea playing backgammon cards. Whatever the case may be you're eating kebabs and you're GonNa just live and enjoy it and here it's like I need to prepare for my kid's college on I need to make this amount. Put into my 401k center money to eat. Jeez Eric Garrick capital. Whatever you let's let's your financial care. Capital management heavy up. Thanks Gotcha but it's just like in America yet. So you're just an American like you guys live so fast that when I go there. I go crazy because it's so slow like so the national team your wake-up College when the Damn phone rings in your room and they call thirty minutes before this only throughout because these guys love the sleep thirty minutes before phone rings team in kickoff like just a day to go to practice or thirty minutes before and you know that hotel phone is the worst ring fifteen minutes. You don't add up then they come knocking your Gore till you get up like we're just give us a schedule similar. Wake but these guys will wake up for breakfast boot right back to the room. Everyone knocked out another two three hours. So that you follow this pattern you sleep all day day you train at six PM and then you stay up to like to ask. Iraq is on their own island time. You know they're they're sort of like everything slow. They'll stay up 'til to him. It's on island like our culture is just like very like Hansie smacking guide. Like very just like lovey but like so much banter singing like these are wild on the boss to the point where children. But it's like I just want ten minutes on the bus ride with Wi fi relaxed but also look what what what's like partying with the Iraq national team like Can't really do that. Two guys went out in this last Asia Cup. Acl surgery started play but it was emerets into guys went out after a game. I think they were suspended for like forty days. Fifty days from a national team or something. See Find. Your jollies other way other ways mall pro bowl backgammon and t all right all right then. That's that's crazy. I'm sure you've got a million others have to get into all but honestly I love I guess my yeah. We kind of went off track. My my best moments oxy playing in Iraq finally gets a plan Iraq for arm takes off the sanctions for three cities. Carballo BASRA. And now one of the cities in the north Erbil that's where is your family is heritage is from in a finally. Get the plane Iraq first time like going to Iraq and playing so first of all the years ahead to play our home games in Iran or Dubai. So at such 'cause you're given like two thousand fans of these aims you. Kinda like playing against Japan. I or Thailand or Vietnam because they're filling stadium there the whole tubes like you get the crowds so we go buster two hours or kick off brand new stadium sit complex in southern Iraq. Which like everyone's like what got like eight training fields. Like four little mini. Eli Five thousand seat Stadiums and get their new walking after you go to the locker. Many walk detect the field to walk down thirty thousand hearty there two hours. Just BUZZING ALLOW UNBELIEVABLE TIME KICKOFF. Sixty eight thousand stadium full Has scored gold. I never scored in Iraq until last year in March so basically exactly almost a year ago tournament player tournament which was also but I scored my first goal in Iraq. That that moment for me was like I like truly knew what it meant to the people playing for the country in a given even in some to be happy about because they go through so much hardship everyday On my chart upside about this so bad yet is. His computer was about today Head through the judge he definitely one of the best moments Asia Cup. Tell fifteen go in the semi-finals beating Iran in a shootout quarters. That was surreal. Losing the South Korea the What's your name from? Tottenham scored two goals unbelievable chunks to make the seven months to unbelievable close enough How so the Rivalry with Iran tells a little bit about that. I know I don't Wanna I don't WanNa making tell every story just super intense like the Games we've played on since I've been team Only we've lost to them. We had a in before the Asia Cup. We had a friendly against tied in Asia. Cup of beat on on this past year. We beat them at home We've had a really good record against them but they're very very good. They've always been ranked for really. I'm in a fever. Rankings go to World Cup. They're just super strong. They're coach What's his name? The Portuguese Portuguese. He was assistant to Sir. Alex Guy's name was Carlos Kierdorf. Yeah I mean so. He was running a great shit boy. There were that team. They're just just to countries all the fans love Just in unrealized like US Mexico. Eighty other game's going to be intense over the past couple of years. We've had upper hand. Which is is Iran Iranian fans? Throw bags of Pissy. You had that so does alleged. They throw rice in in in the Middle East or shoes isn't that sort of shoes is like the most district. I threw a shoe. Mit Me Time. Joking around the sky was mother. Michelle much better than I thought it was funny. You know I had to allegations hoge grew by what I do is like the most Disrespectful redoubt in my five years like the something. I couldn't believe I just remember. There was a journalist. That shoe at Drexel Be Bush. Yeah and it was a big thing. It was pretty funny. My my uncle back. We go on with these. I Like I could listen these stories. But they're accurate national team experience honestly. Maybe we'll just bring him back onto just do another hour on this but we've got to move on and we gotta move on so you you bout you've had a long very successful stint with with Columbus. Then you've bounced around a couple times more recently. Let's right so where should we start there? I think I asked to actually asked to leave. Columbus I was like my time I spent a lot of years there I was ready to thought I was ready right. You never not leave in you. You saw out there Portland or Montreal. Dallas in Orlando came. In last minute Chernoff organizer Landau tell us more Justin. I went there was I was happy that beginning we played we played pretty good on Jason Very nice coach like Super Nice Guy. coach Disneyworld. You know take your mind off. A Nice Guy. Nice Guy is coaching her sentence. Kinda never heard that before as a coach. Bendix limbo like that's just my My my angle IDA. Maybe other guys differently. Obviously he's well respected. Here are salad. We still have a actually texted him the other day when I when I came to Salt Lake conversation so I have. No I like the guy just wish. The team played a little bit better but it or not. Everything falls on a coach anyways. Well so what did it feel like to get bought for more than a million dollars for more than a million by Orlando? So what was that like? So that added like pressure that I never never felt before because it was like. I'm supposed to be the guy. Right in edgy. Can kind of tell you the way I play? I'm more of like a systematic guy. I'm GONNA unlock opponents. In a would either movements or combining with my teammates said Landau. It was the first time in like four or five years at it. Became a very individualistic style. Whereas like if I get it I better do something bad ass and then hopefully dom does something and then Sasha Will Johnson like you name it. We had a pretty good team on paper. What's his name? The Peruvian retuned Rushmere Idiot Yoshi at Yuri. Sasha a salad will don Saddam like budget household you know. Mls names and you get onto the field and it's just so ad-lib of was so hard for me because the fan base look as much as they hate me in. I can't stand them. It's just it is learnt is they? Don't realize that in the game of soccer one man is not gonNa just see you put messy. Bro Call Messier million. Put Him on that team. He's don't go too messy mess. He's banging Jeez. Goes someone else? Get your point though but fuck okay. Put Ninety on what happens score goals wherever you go but you think they're gonNA win. I'm less competent. Messy I get your point. European deprived defendant all back in his eighteen bucks. We got g back. There's going to be playing ball through the lines to your boy over here. I saw I got traded for a second round. Pick in a sack sex shit second of all. I know I know just saying that. You're you're a piece of the puzzle and coming from Columbus Justin. It was just a total shock to the system. It total shock. Start playing the battle. Would it? I'M NOT GONNA make I wasn't planning to the best of my ability Penon I scored. My first will finally and I start off greatly. My first game was bald out so J. J. Score. Did you do anything or what happened? Let me let me tell. Let me tell the story. I see What's his name from From from Holland was his name. Newboy remain new Holland. It puts his fingers Memphis MEMPHIS. I liked it By score due to my own fence so sure enough playing arrivals Atlanta down to zero ball sorts may touch score spread their my teams all running back to like hurry up the all new his mind. Go or we'll get him back. I got like Amro Tarek. Probably 'cause he's Arab is while the only one celebrating with me So we That just unleash everything that just started this whole war between us and then Jason Kreis gets fired. They bring a new Bobby Murphy was interim head coach. So they're like a lot of. Shit's going to me. The fans some stuff. I kind of want to stay in here like it's never been like said publicly. Let's let's go. I don't know if I can later. We can always cut it later. I I tell you got have a real discussion. I don't think I'll ever say but anyways body Murphy in the Nikki. That's health can't stand you. Could you could keep that on tape. Anyways they he calls me to grab copy with me is a limitation Brown hair. Did just clip just unloading the clip out here. You guys call me on the show by People here rather they wanNA clear my go. See Your Family Account. Lead like getaway. Always know about it. I'm like Oh bullying kind of play. I don't WanNa like we're going to play at length. Bribery Games like it's best for you. What do I never been in a situation before? County link I promise you I swear to gotTA MIC HOLD. Tire family I Fly San Diego Day catch on flight. The next morning mayor takes leave of absence. That's this was this. Was this Palton Oreo. There was blowing you off by the way because he was in. I saw cool. Thanks thanks Nicki. Thanks Bye Murphy. Ottesen great on my teammates. Hate me they think like oh. I just said like effort. I'm out. I'm taking the weekend going to Kelly so at the airport Come back now. It's like I don't know what the my nobody's talking to you back on the team. Only Richie lereah still my home until this day Dom Dwyer still my homemade like these guys are like y'all with a teen eight to leave and I guess it got twisted lie. Your thought was best. He should go. I want what I come back don calls me. I'm very to catch on flight. Almost missed my flight to James. Connor becomes a coach. So I get there the same day James gets there. James Speaks to the group that I speak after. Everyone's like this guy so I say Spiel Yada Yada Yada. I go to sit down. Inspector stands up like you got to be doing better like this can't be happening. And everything like Hadn't even playing the game. You guys lost five former like we all got to be played. Better like yeah. Obviously I gotta be playing better but like grove by economies like pulled me aside so it just like turn into war through like a really tough time. I'll be. Yeah no shit. I mean going back playing for a team where you got teammates that clearly are whether they actively hate you or not. They're clearly not happy with you whether a clearly perhaps for I mean shit that you shouldn't have been even the bus for the whole thing. Handled was so bizarre. Look I was feeling through the fans. Mrs were like I kinda messed up. It's like I'm like reading everything and that's not helping but like you just human nature than they`re. They're crucifying me. But comes with the territory like if you're not performing so it is what is so obviously learned that moving forward but Just the whole thing was handled so bad that just put this for eight years. I was clean or no issues that may ever with. How many different coaches I hadn't Columbus and then all of a sudden it was like nobody wanted anymore and it was a bad six months at like you get traded for second round draft. Pick one hundred thousand dollars. You know what I mean. Basically like what you got hurt. No Omar with me. So let's sweet all right so you're at Orlando. Listen I've I have I've been harsher on. Orlando over the years than any team like in the world like even even the team that I loved the shifts in my face. Like every single game I'm a Tottenham Fan I'm way harsher Orlando and I usually feel like sort of bad about it afterwards. You SORTA like man. It was probably a little harsh. It probably shouldn't have said that I've never felt bad about it because Orlando they've just been so bad and they haven't had anything like the ownership either just saying like. I think when they were playing at the stadium the citrus bowl. I think that's when they were on the rise and the move into this new stadium smaller venue. Kinda know places to Parker town because I remember planner Orlando. You're pulling up. Everyone's tailgate your life. Shit you're in for it and now it doesn't really have the I mean. Obviously there are now getting booed every single. Toss the ball or the F- Maram chance during warm up than unlike knocking them. Out of the Open Cup Semis in Orlando and dominating ball out. Bro. Put it touch me. I was flying every time they every time I got the ball. Ho Stadium was blowing me. I sorta gave me like a feeling like jolt of Energy Light and especially Atlanta you know the Atlanta is quality on the field is like everyone's playing so good. I'm just seeing these guys chasing the ball. So tired mega some guys here. They're built to a top five moment of Your Life. Basically highlight those. I loved it and I was like I'm probably the biggest villain to one club like. I don't know who to a different analyst team. I am the number one village for thirty s an achievement. Right there you know. They don't boo. Nobody's they don't hate nobody's I should. I should point out that like when I talked about Orlando. It's not about the fans. They've actually got a lot of fans for club. That hasn't been focused on record. High actually appreciate the fans that they're going to stand and be there every week by winning the auks knocks suck for years so almost dominates. I don't know how many scored goals but the fans sticking out. You gotTa give listening this product Saab. I wasn't great when I was there. No everyone that goes their socks. They leave a boyden now. Me and Danny Toya out. Here ourselves Orlando rejects this hour your plan while Salt Lake City so I guess before we get to ourselves so you're Atlanta experience. What was that like and especially coming off of Orlando actually between there's crew but obviously things work out for whatever reason didn't work out I coming off surgery. I wasn't great. Actually teeth reaction. What's good shots Kayla? Do beating four of them tradesman. As a coach player Caleb on like a group Chat Regan out ever look They should have been handled differently in my view maybe his view but I respect them. No no allow whatever. It was actually a blessing right. 'cause he didn't want me and look. I was like it was a honestly think it was bad time. I came off the surgery. I had to ankle surgeries Six years ago my rightful younger twenty five at the time like you. Just recover quickly on this one took so long recovered. I was just I had two surgeries in the studio on the ankle on the head. So kinda slow for Kayla and semi asked for a bag of balls to Atlanta then. I'm like shit if I don't play our Columbus's roster you better believe sniffing feel for Atlanta. You Got PARCO. Allow the Joseph Pitty Grasso Dion Pereira I'm just I'm I'm just thinking wingers one. Two seven eight nine am tenth injuries here and US going. Atlanta for me is was a dream. Come True Bro. I'LL BE HONEST. I mean like you go into my first games against Orlando. Can you believe about how I get traded? First GAME WITH ATLANTA AGAINST ORLANDO. I started free agency with ourselves. First Game Orlando like growths city anyway so I go to Atlanta. Arcos with you twenties so like I'm on the bench. Alright pay my first game in Vancouver played great Then I'm just on the bench. I don't think I played a couple of games. Eeg came to Atlanta Chicago. Smackdown Asia gave or everyone smacked us bre kickoff. So then open. Cup comes Like sobbing I get to assist. We'd be Charleston. We're losing to assess we win and then we go to. Toronto on only the play me like sprawled out Charleston. No fans chiller. Fuck up slowly so we go to Toronto. We're losing and he doesn't put me in at all. I'm like this is my moment and I was like it was like one of those games super open. I was feeling coming off. Company doesn't supplement. I think Joseph was hurt so the airport. He's like you're going to start looking at trail. yeah here we go. This is came up to me. And he's like also remember this Orlando his name's Orlando. But that's the first thing we're not talking about the fate. Orlando Is like you're GonNa Start and like I want you to play knowing like if you lose it we don't I want you to lose it. Do we know like what we watched you? Just do what you can do is cut. Open a Miss Star. First home game two goals were probably the greatest of my career. We went to on. I'm on a high now now. You can't touch me. I'm GonNa write tells like Joseph than me but really it's Joseph and I'm still underwater so we go to Chicago E. G. Labouyr. I'm starting for sure. May Get the captain's armband after the King Global Flying Facility out having the gym this week we do pre-game thirty. I'm frank was good horse like those me a notice portable. We're not going to start you like Sam. Did you watch this game? Biggest blessing in my life was not starting my Game Red card penalty. I without four zero first half. I'm fine I wanNA start me in one of those. You know the player you get Benjamin Schwartz to go come up so then he starts me again in New York nine minutes in both score now games two starts at home three goals. I'm flying as a really good game type of Seattle Brek Shea leftback Thursday Seattle Alma. God Mike Ambrose was out amend George Bello Had like hernia concussion. Cut It. I don't know yet a lot of injuries. Last year. Saw three left backs out with the change formations. So this is when they approached me a wingback and never played it before. And I just you know. I flourished this physician Workout Great And obviously when Open Cup knocked out Orlando later has nice game when he assist at home against Minnesota IN THAT. We had a red car that gave up game. And then one can't be honest council obviously Around gave an Eastern Conference finals. We had a chance to go to the penalty work our Joseph. And then they came back in two wonderbulles but I was like an amazing six. Seven months had midland in fan base with Atlanta's everything up so they're Landau in her face. Orlando too so I love it or Manda place so you yeah you'd Orlando get some serious beef Hijab up in what you know. Obviously you like the city. It sounds like but what What sort of the vibe there? I'd honestly our came late. I stayed in Atlanta from everything. I heard an all the comments Charles Bocanegra. You know put out there you know when they announced that they let me go in it. Was You know to pick me up? But the free agency in icy matching number of his. Hi I'm just trying to work through those things like you know. I'm getting older as long as it's something that fits for me in like a two year deal. Something keeps me stable. I love Atlanta. I love the position. Us plan for aid Obviously they wanted a different direction. They were younger. Sell are South Kinda came in late and there was a place like let ourselves always played pretty good soccer and I thought it was a place that I can fit in in this young coach. It's kind of has the kind of has a Columbus field not many big star names But it's You know roll your sleeves and work hard and and play for one another. And that's I was in that culture for many years and called the so. I thought it was a great fit and sucks. We'RE GOING TO GAMES. But hopefully we can get some more games in but home game before everything happened at a sucker scored three goals. I couldn't believe I didn't score a game by Internet. Hattie APP became would have been great to kind of get on the scoresheet but Just shows that what this capable do it at home especially with outed so? I've got a question just if I can get a word in it over here. It's up You Still Jairo Anyways do we talk Landau yet? I'm kidding Anyways so we'll send it real real talk just now you've been with ourself for. I don't know month. Two months three months team has who's the guy on our so I mean we know the names but you're on the inside who's WHO's impressed you. Who's WHO's the guy I mean I don't WanNa get you in trouble. Yeah he's a about unbelievable humid off the off the field or just the nicest guy ever and usually Eastern European guys aren't the most friendliest but this guy is him. Albert are great Great Players Greg is but just the we have a good group justice. Not Young kid super cool as I don't have a problem with many many at all if any maybe I had to guess I mean. My question was who's who's impressed to WHO's good. I need to know who's GONNA PROBLEM WITH. Who wasn't going to our. Who's kind of like the bully guys guys still fighting from Orlando who the bully looking? I looked the wrong way. Almost knocked Aaron Herrera's like low key. He he's toughest male this. This guy tackles like all other way that guy can fly. He can fly. He can tackle and he can send a dime cross so like. I'm trying to stay with On his good side all ties. This boy can tackle or like Kim Justin the player. You're just a good players man. Hopefully sappy he got injured before this guys though. This guy's technique is like I had to go back and watch this guy. Something you you hear the Neva. Emily whatever I'm still followed in trading area off. I do some of them. Look this kind of played event use for you. The album in Syria site. She's disguised big eight. Yeah he's really the next guy too so who we get like pre-season all we do is like poker nyc which is just so poker player boy. Regular kill shocker. To K- from these guys felt bad. Slight word lie work. I got a couple of courses where he will call this like the rapid fire session. 'cause I always do like rapid fire near the end of the episode. I'll do do this real quick so better late. Change late career position change. You're Cristiano Rinaldo. She's ever put me in crucial in the same. That's his that's his guide Suzanne. Oh you're wait are you Christiane over Mexica homered say over but I would say that the way I appreciate like messy wakes up in the guys like it just gets it to see like the level of like misery. You gotTA put your mind through to be like to work that hard every single day. Eat like just playing chicken by. It's like this guy dedicates every single moment to the game and I think I just respect that On so many levels to go to so many different leagues into it I don't know how people just write them off but Recent messy messy so I hear you. You know what I wa-. The Way I think about is messy is just sort of superhuman. He just like sort of he's not he's Malian. You hear that a lot. He does just seem like an alien whereas Cristiano Renaldo is the peak form of human being. That's as far like this. What is we can get like the goal he scored. I don't know but one where he literally jumped a bike. The are you kidding me. But it was the freak of nature this is the caps are at the guy's head. I remember that he almost like almost like landing because he's so odd. People tear their Acl doing his celebration NFL players anyway. No big deal okay. So what do you think about The big story and with Wayne Rooney his hair plugs. You guys are joke. Denied the T. One story we can give you a justice and rain. Wayne Rooney coversation Hongbao airplanes. Then takes the t while I get my hair done. Harris so I was receding at the Same Level. Digi maybe more save level and this at these Iraqi insurgents Kinda liked Joe. You should do it kind of helps me shake my head in Orlando Like you know what my brother did it. My two cousins did it. It was like other like one day after fly to San Diego. Surges picked US up three of them drivers over the border. It costs US five hundred dollars for like fourteen hours Caesar Surgical Room. So that's why you go in Tijuana to save you money. Twelve hour surgery awake. Thought I was going to die twice like losing so much blood from my head like they're feeding me like aerobic great leaves. I saw like the procedure before they put you off too big glasses of orange a borjas pancake syrup like just get your sugar level Sarah Katinka. You'RE GONNA lose so much blood nine to my cousin that were before me the day before me did follow passed out three times so I'm going so the first step broke. Ut My hearing nothing good it looks good tags like everyone is even notice it anymore except for Orlando things but they started like at twitter account with Mike at Charlotte Orlando fence because like Atlanta. Brought it up to my attention that your list. We're trying to remove it. I thought it was hilarious. Shot outside Orlando Fan. Whoever made that it was a funny ass twitter account but my hair plugs loved it. It was hilarious anyways This procedure was the hardest thing I've ever done in my tired. I swear to God you certainly so many lives. So then they start lifting my legs. Sam Your same weapons so harder. Now there's lifted my legs and then now the bullet's going back to my head like keep me like and then the blood leaking coming out more because they're just there's blood in your head. There's just so many like pores open from just like ready to put the phone. So y'all got a tourniquet on my forehead. I'm I'm like I'm I'm thinking so then we're like our our ten of twelve or ten or eleven to. I'm on the home stretch. You'll get all of a sudden hospital. Power cuts off power out. That's why we goes five hundred three surgeons. They got scalpers in their hands. They got like the hair took from. The back of my head. Is like in this like these little containers? Keep them alive for twelve hours. And I can't come back so all of a sudden this here these like Tijuana just hear these. Mexicans is in the back just like starting to generator these boys starts generating. I tell to get this done with. These guys were dropping follicles. Like they've never been doing it before we finished. My head. Looks like a Jimmy Neutron. My head is huge wearing a wearing black headbands the swelling from going to my eyes and shutting my eyes. We get to the border. It's it's like eleven. Pm to over two hour. Wait at the border. I'm sitting here. I'm sitting here rap tough throughout I got. I got these little people. Just try some shit. I'm not chips. Give me to America in the backseat. So we finally get through there so the now playmate and ruining my last day before he traded. So we'RE WE'RE UP KICKOFF. Ernie's looking at him like y'all I did my hair to that real shit yours. Wear the mind game straighten you want to Tijuana for the win win? Got To give you some credit. I remember I remember I saw I saw a picture. A few days after Senator Collins Sam the Guy Dead Did. You had like a kid like gauze all head on his face. He was sitting there like three months. I sleep with my neck off. 'cause I couldn't like lay on my mind the back of my head because it was just all open. Because that's where they took all the hair out bro for three four five months. All my friends E. G. Josh Williams like even Dr Edwards the owner of the fullness in like it Kayla head. It was beat. Read in like a few hairs pop. It takes a long prophet. So you're playing. I'm worrying. I'm playing that everyone's like you know. Not good everything they fucked up. And you know when when everyone's in your ear young self-confidently you're thinking what works every week. Texans You guys messed up and then out of nowhere like four or five months. I started to seeing come in and like the confidence was full. Allying so was it worth it so brogel photos before. Look enough kidney. Yeah we'll send some. We'LL SAY WE'LL SEND. Samson update picks it was busted on like crazy. I posted about it right. I mean instagram a like a before after just wanted it just kind of like the out. There challenge the six months now the ten year six sequestered cartoons get with and I promise you so. Many people reached out. Like I've been is actually like a cooler moment for Sony. You'll I'm so insecure like can't believe you did. It looks amazing. Like please like give me the right. Number like what? What do you think I thought I was going to get fast forward? Every it was a total opposite for men in hair loss is like our number one thing that we like. We hate you as you get older lose. Erin you're like Dan like are either buzzard off like each day at twenty-five or like airforce puzzle thirteen or do justice to his loss of hair. Here I got more hair back and shoulders that I did my head. How does that work used to shave that Justin? Jesus we're going to pool. We're not travelling. Like Oh yo G give back into to Bach and walking around the fucking apartment complex. What was what was what did you. What did HE G? Dm You about your hair. I mean obviously you must have thought about this looking. At looking at justice hair he looks like the phenomena like it does it. Looks like it's not really commercials so proud of them did. Yeah so when. Are you going to Tijuana I? I ain't gonNA fuck use between that story and Narcos Dude note own half Umbro just having to have my best friend back. I'm just glad Wayne. Rooney's just acknowledged that my hair plugs were better than his story. Sorta got find the footage. Amazing isn't it was before kickoff was actually on like any sort of Banger. Free-kick Waltz one zero four days later whose life's better Sicelo. This will end the pockets and a high gay. Go down from there. Just an honestly thanks. Thanks thanks thanks for joining us. Straight up nice two hours. We talked to artists Sam. Hey you know. They've got nothing better to do with that. We know you know the city Hash Day. We gotta get your after. We'll see I'm joking. I'm joking bro off. I don't know if you should put that. Oh we weight off yet but we can San Finish up finish up on outlets it just rejoin us. Thanks for you know being EG and we'll be back with another episode very soon. Actually over and talk about my love for Landau Columbus Atlanta and Caleb. All Right Caleb all.