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"Hey everybody instead of the usual suspects I southern Bannon you just need. I am talking with Michelangelo Tax. Tina who's the the president of defiance shop runner which is a e commerce company in Chicago. mcglinchey thanks for joining. We talking about data signs management. This is something we've been China about for a while leading wrote and a Riley report together on this very topic a few months ago and and thought it would be worthwhile to get in and talking through. So that's what we're doing today talking about once. You have a data science team in place. How do you keep those learning? How do you keep them growing? How do you think about moving along in their careers? All that good stuff. So you're listening to the year diversions in our last couple of episodes which listen to strongly recommend that you go back and pick goes up by a little bit of recap here so we talked a little bit about getting into data science and the different types of data scientists. How you assemble a team and why it's so important to get the right blood in your team once you have? The team assembled or you. How kind of critical mass us most of your time? These days is not your managerial time by not beyond hiring. But it's instead on growing your not making sure that they're learning and they're sticking around. They're happy hair progressing in their careers. You say yes yes yes sorry you can't you can't you can't hear me now so and this was something that we it's your three chapters to talk about if I recall correctly because it's really important and it's a for me this the the stuff. That's not always obvious because sometimes if you're a good manager you're working super hard and but people don't see the things that you're you know fighting for the process of the you're putting in place two two happy I don't know maybe maybe it's a little bit cynical but sometimes given the only time you hear about is when people are unhappy with their happy sounds about right. Yeah I I think that's just as of nature of the beast so but when we were together we together for a couple of years. I remember even when I started at that job. There was a lot of. There's a lot of stuff that was in place when I write the action that you were part of starting some of this certainly part of of continuing the things that have been started before your time of that created a really nice learning environment and so I think that now upon on reflection I realized how important that was for me as a younger data scientist as a way of learning and and stay happy so if as you can get a little bit of detail about what was the you put in place out of things April so yeah it's funny. I actually don't know that I can take credit for having put in place a lot of the good things that we had But I can't take credit for stealing them and putting them in place in my current company actually But there's actually I think one of my favorite topics at least one of my favorite topics from the book and the way the way we talk about it in the book is kind of this idea of like foam. Oh like fear of missing out that like data scientists really have this feeling that like if they're not using cool new techniques learning things that they're like falling behind and just again anecdotally like I think a Lotta people quit jobs or go from company to company because they feel like they're getting stagnant or they're not learning anything anything or doing anything interesting at their company so some of these things that we had in place to help combat that that feeling that people can have so. What kinds of things are we talking about so we're big fans of of just a simple idea of having a journal Club where folks get together? Read a paper of blog posts. It's like something like that. Maybe they've ideally they've read the paper of the blog post but that's not necessarily mandatory and get together and discuss it Someone who has like selected the paper could maybe give the short presentation but really you can just do it over lunch and spend an hour talking about a paper blog post like learning something new dirty secret. You never read the paper. I know what I was GONNA say. Everyone has been very often but every once in a while I'll realized that Journal Club is on a topic that I wanted to do on podcast anyway and then I'll make sure gotta check. Oh all your listeners. Know the secret purchase but and we have like A. I think we find that a great way for people to keep learning stuff but it's also a good opportunity for the company because a lot of interested engineers or analytics people. Oh Com people who are a little bit Interested in getting into the field and it's just a good rates like socialized data science. Like around your your company One thing we've done a few times he's like when we forgot to select paper is to have like a cold. Like Davis is movie night where we will find a talk from an interesting conference. Like Pie de puts video video online a lot of conferences. But there'd be online and we'll just like sit for the hour and like watch talk a conference talk together and I think people often accumulate these lists of things they wanNA watch and they don't have the time for it and that's just another way to get people like watching something Learning something so journal Club thing. That were a big fan of the second one I think is like some sort of dedicated halftime and I definitely did not start this at our previous job and I definitely didn't even come up with the best iteration that I think that we've landed John so I've never three companies that have done halftime we've and seeing many flavors like one flavors like that we at a previous company was like half of every he Friday. You got to do whatever you wanted. Essentially another one has been like what is like a full day full day once a month. I think that's where we're doing a full day once a week at some point either way like that in those like short increments I find. They often don't work very well for two reasons. One people don't aren't able to at the time Apart like it was just half a day every week like you just get pulled in a meeting. So you'd get normal work like you can't actually. You can't actually do it even if it's like a day every other very hard at at the time aside so then we've tried whole team accolades and spending two days like working on something a team. We did cagle competition as a team wants. It's an and that has been fun has advantages but I think the the downside of that is that people can't work on the particular thing that they're interested or they want to learn about. Yeah Yeah So. That's a problem so I think both what we did at Civis and what we do now. Here is the idea of of individual hack weeks. And how often you do them depends is on your company. And what you what you can do. We do them quarterly. But you can. You can even do them once or twice a year but the idea is basically that each person gets to spend a dedicated week on like a hack project and because it's a whole week retire them to treat it like it's a vacation and plan for it like way out in advance and you know people can take a week advocation and get out of meetings and projects so do the same thing with this hack week actually set time aside a week as long enough to make meaningful progress on projects. It's like to actually get end to end on a prototype or try a new software package or open source somethin- and then the last bit is like some kind of bit of accountability to make sure people are actually doing something so Having a slight plan in place ahead of time that people can look at and then doing a presentation to the rest of the team at the end is super important so We do it on Friday as well help like a forty five minute presentation where the person that was on Hack Week. We'll walk the rest the team through what what they've done and so the rest of the team also gets to learn something new and cool but then that person realizes actually have to do something. Because I'm going to get off in embarrassments off. I have nothing to show for my week. When.