20 Episode results for "Michael Kohn"

Essential Bribery, LLC.

Pod Save America

56:58 min | 3 years ago

Essential Bribery, LLC.

"In Boston join US fucking Ziprecruiter. Hey Tommy you want things I heard at the pool every day the presenting sponsor pod Save America is Ziprecruiter if you're looking for qualified candidates for Your Business Ziprecruiter Ziprecruiter ziprecruiter treasure trailer thankfully ziprecruiter's powerful matching technology finds the most qualified candidates for you and me locations Ziprecruiter uses your feedback to continuously learn what you like and get you better and better matches efficiency John I like it on a bed to the mattress one ziprecruiter to know that I'm taking all of your advice trying to sell your product I'm selling the site allegedly tried for free today Ziprecruiter Dot com slash crooked that's ziprecruiter dot com slash crooked one more time Mr Trump welcome to pods one day later they're like here's eighty people that match perfectly for your job. This process is as streamlined as stream that went from the prostitutes trump paid too how about that one Dan I mean what a world we live in there we're not dealing with good people still haven't seen Congress take any action on artists How do you think we should deal with this reimportation question Mr Trump American first biggest figuring out why Iran deal opponents hired foreign spies to stock Americans who were in government think that would be an interesting topic for them to look into don't give them you just gotta you gotTa understand goes by instinct that'll be one billion dollars crooked ziprecruiter dot com slash credit you'll stay Mr trump gotta go so Michael Cohen is not smart in the world of hiring it's not smart to post a job in hope that the right of nut smart things going on in the world right now I would say Michael Kohn calling up Novartis and saying hey give me cash I'll give you influence and Novartis is like Hey Buddy that's the deal don't say it out loud you fuck it up for everybody one million thank you. I'd love to play out how that call went. Hey Michael streamline dummy wow what an a streamline efficiency you say I want I need to fill a job this is recruiter is the next day talked with crooked contributor Ben Rhodes but Donald Trump's decision to withdraw from the Iran deal Annaba recent reports that Iran deal opponents hired Israeli spies to stock Ben and his family. Erica I'm Jon Favreau I'm Dan Pfeiffer today on the cloud we're talking midterms and polling with the whiz kid himself friend of the pod Harry Denton of CNN also in pod save the world this week people see it and apply it's not smart to do that it's like pulling a Michael Cohen you know how many forgot his line efficiency I like it no bites them to apply for your job just matches people use that technology match people up with jobs it's going to be so much so much smarter than Michael Kahn then review should've people love Ziprecruiter that's why eighty percents of employers who post on ZIP recruiter get a quality candidate through the site in just one day see for yourself whites the smartest way to hire try it for free today Komo I look here's the thing about Donald trump you gotta understand he shoots from the hip he's a guy that does what he thinks his best he's got a you know look he's not the one of these Washington types stitches trump went to greet them in the middle of the night when they came back at Andrews and then he gave this very bizarre quote we WanNa thank Kim Jong Un i no one's doing anything it's probably because Paul Ryan's flying around the country taking thirty million dollar checks right middle in the middle of the grey areas of our campaign finance law from Sheldon doesn't so he's pretty busy yeah he's also spending a lot of time aiding and abetting Devon Unisys cover up of trump's crime so you know there's only so much so many hours in a day for Paul Ryan like that Dan Yeah I mean also like acting like this I mean you know the Obama Administration Eh before we get into everything else there was obviously some news today Kim Jong Hoon released three American news I am four diplomacy as the best path to solving this challenge the devil presidents of both parties for many years like you said there's a lot of work to do dream has done this before has released hostages to Americans I think that so far you know we've said this before it's good that Donald Trump is going to talk with Kim Jong Hoon that Donald Trump and Kim Jong UN would be meeting in Singapore on June twelfth that is the big summit so you know hopefully there's good outcome there but if you tried to pick one to go to a summit with Kim Jong UN to try to achieve world peace and get rid of nuclear weapons I think Donald Trump would be at the very bottom of who was really excellent to these three incredible people was he excellent to these people that he kidnapped and then put into forced labor camps for couple of years on anything or taken any steps that in his not taken before in prior administrations in prior years so I believe today they announced assoc maybe keep the Nobel on ice as someone who supports diplomacy I would probably prefer that we sent someone to the meeting who can answer the question how to get Hello Mrs good we believe in diplomacy we did when we were in the Obama Administration we do today but I think it's important to recognize that so far North Korea has not obviously lots to unpack here but what was your first reaction to all of this news my first reaction was I had to go home Wednesday night or Tuesday night and secured the release of two hostages from North Korean twenty fourteen Bill Clinton did before him like this is this is something that happens Kim Jong Un has done this before the North Korean payoff stormy Daniels had more than one purpose essential consultants LLC I believe is the first time the word essential has been used in connection with Michael Cohen was multiple news outlets and we know it's true because the Treasury Department has launched an investigation into how oven Nadi Got Coen's financial records Dan for a couple months shirt sherve you ignore the kidnapping that he was great I mean look less I say it is great that these people are home whatever ever donald this maybe would you say West or Donald Trump probably kind you west probably Kanye West it's a close call yeah but anyway use the same scale company you use your Porn Star Payoff Hush Slush Fund to run your sketchy pay for play access Sally Emergency Bonus addition segment of last week's pod that we had to ditch because NBC got the story wrong so finally get to jokes The the big question at the heart of all of this is still you know will Kim Jong UN give up his nuclear program his nuclear weapons read for two hours to figure out what the fuck happened because I didn't pay much attention to the news that day and it's a lot to pick through I mean it really there is so much This information appeared in detailed seven page document that was posted on twitter by stormy Daniels camera shy lawyer Michael Noddy the information was later confirmed by temper or Secretary of State Mike Pompeo do that Kudos to them Kudos to them thank God their home than God for their families yeah the district New York could seize them at the end of the day I mean it is it's pretty my mother called burner phones Michael Cohen this content you're getting right here from the sure there is so much happening there is so there's like the web is so tangled with bad players it sort of brings together central money laundering just rank corruption and pay for play Russian oligarchs providing money and consulting business so rule number one and flush funds no double dipping yes exactly I mean this is the same level of Lazy Stupidity Russian Angle There's an investment firm called Columbus Nova which is the American subsidiary of Renova Group which is a Russian conglomerate founded by a Russian North Korea from South Korea but we don't go to diplomacy with President we choose we go with the president we have I guess or something yeah again I mean three hundred plus million people in this country sure Dan Victor Excel Berg was stopped at Dulles airport months ago and questioned by Robert Muller's investigators last month the Treasury Department places also us to accept massive payments from giant telecom companies drug companies in Russian oligarchs who wanted access to the president of the United States just your standard stuff you're dealing with criminals but we are not dealing with criminal masterminds because the whole point of a shell company that you create is to create some distance for yourself so then you probably shouldn't the end at some point I I recognize that everyone is innocent till proven guilty that we should be skeptical entity and yet RENOVA group the Russian conglomerate listed on their website as one of their companies Columbus Nova is lawyer has run afoul of the law Dan yeah it's amazing this week we learned that the slush fund he created so the Donald Trump stop trying to make new and and that we don't have any evidence that he'll do that yeah I think that's exactly right the fact that this meeting is happening or is planned at least is very good oligarchy with close ties to Putin named Victor Vicksburg he was also colossal Columbus Nova also paid Cohen Eight installments ambiguously a good thing that's good I'm not sure Donald Trump needed to give Kim Jong Sung a five star rating on Airbnb at the end of this but so be it coincidence of Russians who interfere in the election having deep personal and financial ties to trump maybe maybe it's just a coincidence that it happened to be the oops why was an investment firm doing that why are they controlled by a Russian oligarch why did they spend five hundred thousand dollars on Michael Cohen's essential consulting services stories in the paper over the weekend that were the incredible investigative reporting about the fact that trump at a time of incredibly low interest rates. I think the other thing here is it does like Michael Cohen sort of Zada stone to trump's crimes because as you sort of dig into this you're dealing with he Lazy stupid criminality that led Michael Come in to have many burner phones you could use to make secret calls and then forget to throw them away so that the Russian oligarch was looking for the best most essential consulting services available to America and he scoured the waterfront looking talking to all the big players and he would he it is November of two thousand seventeen and when you go there now it says other websites under construction we also know the Columbus Nova the came down to the end after this rigorous unbiased search was that Michael Cohen was the man to do this nebulous worked for him may it's it's pretty wild totaling five hundred thousand dollars between January and August of two thousand seventeen of Nadi suggested that the money may have helped cover the hundred thirty thousand dollars stormy Daniels payment we don't know that subsidiary which is an investment firm for some reason spent twenty sixteen in two thousand seventeen registering websites for white supremacists and all right good and why was this all done in time period right before the election and ended in the summer of two thousand seventeen right when the sanctions debate stopped what what's going on list after we have taken a step back from when we sent Dennis Rodman Martin's skrilje Donald Trump pushes there's not devin nunes I mean that's your next line here's hoping complaining I'm already looking as thankfully zipper call she can't handle it stupid activity crimes corruption you really have to step back and sort of figure it out I'd say a couple of things about this one it is pretty clear once again that we on her main John you're so cynical about the behavior of Pi really affiliated oligarchs I just I don't know I don't know it's so in addition to taking half a million from Russian oligarchs and buying the silence of the president's mistresses essential consulting was also a massive pay to play slush fund sufficient evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a crime was committed but let's not be naive about what is happening here is so at and T. was trying to push merger through and fight net neutrality rules so they paid off Cohen a big drug company called Novartis heard that trump promised to lower drugs you said but we have donald trump so let's roll the dice and see what we get Okay let's talk about let's talk about Michael Cohen it seems as though the president's lying to purchase some sort of influence and access you hearing from a lot of season Washington hands and reporters who've been around the block and prices so they paid off Cohen I guess first of all how common is this because you know there is this relationship in DC where a lot of companies yeah and there's a couple of other interesting points here you know that there are a little worried about this because Columbus Nova said through an attorney that it was never owned by Foreign Cohen would basically go round to big corporations with business before the government and promise them access to Donald Trump and his advisors in exchange for large sums of money pay people they believed to be close to a president to sort of get advice and it falls short of the legal definition of lobbying but it's clearly fucking crazy that's what it is so obvious what is going on here and it is but we can't say it and we have to dance around it it's like the the most expensive lobbying firm that they hire it's nothing compared to what they paid Michael Fucking Cohen for one that's that's that is so that that's alarming or at least suggest something untoward second the wheel if not just overlook the fact that like there is this great era between Oh we know that he has been looking into essential LLC and looking at these payments months ago we only know now because of Avenue Party but but Muller's known all of this for a long long time inste- who instead of instead of borrowing money decided to break with all real estate practice and just pour massive amounts of cash of unknown origin plot quote unquote lobbying is done in Washington apparently it's apparently it's way way more than Novartis paid any of their lobbyists so you look through all their lobbying records and even what Muller knows and we usually know it much later than what when Muller found out so we know from all these reports that Muller was questioning this Russian oligarch months ago this is this is why the trump bins such a lunatic ever since the offices ready because he knows that all the bodies are buried here yet so let's unpack within let's start with oh I think to say that Nevada was who ended up paying one point two million dollars I believe over time that is an amount of money for one individual that is pretty unheard of and how because yes there are a lot of people who go around in oversell their access to pretty naive corporations and foreign entities about what they're CBS which means they don't have to disclose things and they've sort of live in this sort of the shadows of the DC influence game if some of these reports are true that on a list of Russians who've been sanctioned for interfering in our election quite a coincidence that he's involved now yes I mean maybe maybe it's yet another because that would somehow violate some normal journals it is pretty clear what is going on here the only question is will Bob Muller or the US attorney from New York able to find but at some point the the mountain of coincidences get so tall that you just have to acknowledge that there are more there is an incredible he was almost certainly lobbying in violation of law now on the list of crimes Michael Cohen is alleged to have committed violating the lobbying registration failing to register as lobbyists what trump what Cohen was promising with specific meeting specific access to deliver on a specific request of the of these clients then trump no about what Cohen was doing was trump getting any money himself knowing that trump doesn't like when aids you know or how close to him prophet off of him and usually likes to take a cut on his own there's a lot of questions about whether trump a knew about this and be was getting money himself into real estate properties while his son was saying that in an interview that all the Rut money came from Russia and we don't say what money laundering like no one could say that a political intelligence in share it with companies but then but don't technically advocate for a specific policy or advocate on behalf of the client and therefore they don't have to register as is probably pretty small but it is a crime and we should not overlook moderately significant crimes from close associates of President States in a normal world that would be sells their internet isn't free any more and you know these people can't afford to pay a bribe to some dumb shit mobster lawyer who's friends with Donald Trump Dan and it's become so fucking comical at this point that now we have in the trump administration the biggest companies in richest assholes they can't afford to make huge donations to pay politicians and that's the government right now and to me that seems like that's something the Democrats can go out there and run on so that seems like that's you know that's the trump liability it also a larger political question here which is how drained is this fucking swamp right like on the outskirts of lobbying that should is unregulated that should be really regulated which is basically strategic consulting where people with large networks and great connections get a policy narrative with an argument around the characters and values of who you're running against and that is not doesn't mean has to all be about trump but what is in this this this president you know up until the weeks before the election was talking about Hillary Clinton being bought off and draining the swamp in Washington because one of the overly simplistic critiques of the Democratic Message in two thousand sixteen was who focus too much on trump's personal foibles and not enough on policy and to me there is some merit to that to that point for sure but the it is not it's a false choice where you have to leave it's like it's all happening before our eyes and it's amazing yeah it's a long and it's also it's also important to note that we always know a fraction of full amount of questionable conduct illegality criminality that's at the root of all of this there are just too many coincidences for this to be a coincidence it says something about what is happening in Washington why we need change Democrats are the changes time which we were not last time so we can more enthusiastically graphs that change mantle ganic deal and it should be here too and we can't just sort of poo poo it because that means he's not guilty of treason or conspiracy against the United States or the other crimes that people as you may have committed yeah talk about Democrats and what the media is already covering and to me this Michael Cohen pay to play slush fund scheme is the able to deliver and so that does happen but what is different here is a couple of things one the amounts of money were talking about are pretty extreme right canvassers saying to people the doors in the funds right like what what is that narrative can be I were a little twist around the axles a party biggest intersection we've seen yet it is a scandal that will be covered on television that will be covered in the Washington media that people are GonNa be talking about on twitter and Democrats can get into that eh point where Democrats are communicating and paid messaging digital or television to voters. That's how you know what the real message of the campaign is not what the and is it a coincidence that Donald trump who ran promising to lower the cost of prescription drugs hasn't done shit about lowering the cost of prescription drugs yet meanwhile people are out there errative by saying Yeah Big Drug Company pays off Michael Cohen hundreds of thousands of dollars to get quote unquote insights about the administration and all messages how does the corruption affect people's lives and I think you can get the tax cut in there you can get healthcare in there and it seems to me it's all part of a peace breath that's exactly right and I would say the media is going to focus on Russia stormy Daniels those sorts of things and they probably should on Tuesday's pod you know Democrats if they had their druthers maybe they'd spend all day talking about issues like healthcare and the tax cut but the Elta between this very important news story and what voters may be most interested in and because the information that is being put like we are looking at essentially the greatest scandal in American political history happening right before our eyes and it should be covered the problem is there is just a is the information they can take the people that is new information they can move people who were either undecided about who vote for or were undecided about whether to vote and way the media is and so we have to figure out where there is an intersection between the policy issues that we want to talk about and the message that we wanted more about collusion about Russia about trump's Russia connections is two things one it's telling people information they probably already made a decision on oh there's a legal question which is how much legal trouble is coming in which you just talked about and also is trump liable as well Those questions are did I guess I guess Republicans got their money's worth from the tax cut because now they have thirty million dollars to help elect candidates I would make one point on this which this is how fucked honestly what they're saying on twitter and now it's Kinda shocked people like what is what is GonNa be the narrative their campaign that they're gonNA spend money to communicate voters what are their volunteers can just pay off Republicans to get tax cuts and special favors while most people's premiums are going up cost to their prescription drugs going up eighteen tease jacking up their phone bill table to do in two thousand sixteen yes that's right I think that the top line message for Democrats here is change which we can run on now because we didn't you know we're not running with happening in Washington is All tied together we've been saying this for a long time the argument from Democrats should be you're running against the chaos in the corruption in Washington Wall Street up our campaign finance laws are which is Paul Ryan went to the meeting made the case for why Republicans needed to be elected same sheldon Adelson whose company recorded six hundred seventy million dollar income tax windfall from the Republican Tax Law in the first quarter so walked out of the room so his staffer from the SUPERPAC kits make the specific Asa Sheldon Adelson for the money because Paul Ryan is not legally it's one of the biggest costs people's faces prescription drugs especially senior citizens I think you can't just talk about the corruption in a vacuum and we said this a million times but the undisciplined about making sure that every piece of communication that emanates from your campaign or your person is about what you know voters care about and that's that is what separates tied in with a message against this level of corruption is awesome an agenda reform a reform agenda run on and then you have like literally phonebook remembers what a phone book was of Data Points to point that backup so I think that's what they should coen thing one more example of that and we should use it because think yeah that's that's exactly right Donald trump ran as a populist reformer in his governed as a corporate as Crook and Democrats have to make that case and and that is where like as you think about where you should put your energy as a Democrat that's the way to do I think you're exactly right that finding an entry point to tie it to some of these things that are being talked about someone who's GonNa be the successor to an incumbent president who was there for two terms so that's the top line message to me this is getting in the media narrative to we talked about this a little bit you sent me the story that Sheldon Adelson just dropped thirty million dollars on the midterm elections to to give to Republicans this is the ever Democrats emerge from those primaries as the candidates to challenge the Republican general election they will have the resources they need to fight repub- how is important but also just you as a candidate control what comes out of your mouth you control what your ad say you control what you're lukens and Sheldon Adelson's thirty million dollars so incredibly important GATTACA dot com slash crooked eight and and donated rex in California where Hillary Clinton one but there's still a republican sitting in that seat plus demo new necessity because he's a fucking asshole scandal that maybe there's a Delta between that scandal and what voters actually care about and so Democrats are really gonNA need to get their message down and they're also going to need resources and if you're wondering what you can parts of America's brought to you by policy genius Mother's Day is on Sunday and what our gift to give your mother than the knowledge that her child has grown it doesn't get picked up in the news the media is going to be focused on these trump scandals from now until November and I don't think we can do anything about the fact that the media is going to be focused on these scandals they just are and so you could go to crooked dot com slash crooked eight and you can donate to these races so that On June Sixth California primaries June fifth on June sixth whoever he close and Democrats are still about fifty fifty to take back the house and now we're facing all this money were facing you know a a media that's GonNa be talking about like you said this is what we're up against in the midterms and it's not going to be easy and if you look at the and we're GonNa talk to Harry about this if you look at the generic ballot it's fat twelve year old hey you wanna never net about if you're looking for qualified candidates for Your Business Ziprecruiter the smartest way to hire so we know there it I was I was making some reporters the other day about this question like do you think Democrats are doing the right message and the answer is we don't know yet because we're not either decided that's Hashtag fake news and you don't care and you're going to do what you're GonNa do anyway or you've already decided that trump coup with Russia when we got to do something about that so you're supporting someone else so but ending citizens united campaign finance reform lobbying from ethics to be a part of it because this is fucking crazy it is it is a crime that it's not a crime and look and do you know we're putting up a video later today about The crooked eight remember crooked eight Dan the Kirk Eight is the seven distance great candidates from bad candidates win losing candidates and political environments like this yeah and I think another data point here that just came out today is that door knocker say is if you know the media's GonNa be focused on something that is not consequential to deciding the election in favor of then you have to be relentlessly fucking at the capital Grill Multiple Times saying this is just how things are done and that's kind of genre terrible that's kinda terrific but it's also not really true allowed to raise money for the Senate he and his code the meeting to everything other than ask for them and that is somehow fucking legal in America and this is the point into responsible left leaning adult fortunately I can't deliver that team well nothing says responsible like having life insurance and the best place to compare it policy genius dot com genius policy genius is the easy way to compare life insurance online and just five minutes you can compare the top Shire's find the right policy and make mom even prouder and she already is supermarket or your favorite coffee shop or your favorite crooked media headquarters let's Talk About Gina Hassle Donald Trump this nominee to be the next director of the CIA went before senators on Wednesday she'd be the first woman to run the agency if she's confirmed by the Senate but her nominations being the happy mother's Day here's a card and they don't just make life insurance easy they also compared disability insurance renter's insurance and health insurance if you care about it see genus has helped over four million people shop for Insurance and placed over twenty billion dollars in coverage woo woo we enter this world as we leave it alone mom who's that other person talking John Convince you to find out more about milk only as a website of course having website is not revolutionary in any way either since every product in the world that's true that's true that is true love it you've probably noticed that here at the pot our sponsors have an interestingly high ratio of products that are revolutionary game changing or even life changing I have I have noticed that John Got Mad and get you anything I just got myself what's what's in this box it's a receipt for something that happens if I die pods of Americans brought to you by Oatley good boring oatmeal the best boring oat milk and a super sustainable boring milk he can make it forever so if a milk alternative made from oats is something you might even consider joined by concerns about her involvement with the as torture program At one point last week it was reported she wanted to withdraw her nomination but the White House convinced her not to at her you by diner to eat a disgusting breakfast way to finish recording positive America's that come back and do the ads the barking was deafening. No it's just boring oat milk oat milk but it's really really great oat milk either way you're most likely not be changed forever put down that White Rhino Milk because that is not sustainable there's two left Guy Tommy would you like to say anything about milk because they have a race you from this copy once again yeah and if they were considered to be legal and yet when pressed by Kamala Harris and others on whether she believed the torture was immoral she refused to answer the only people said that congratulating Sweden was not mandatory last night in Sweden Hey Sweden you know what I'm not doing offering you any sort of congratulations oh he's also available in our kitchen here it is feels good congratulations thank obamacare if you've been thinking about getting life insurance or just want to remind your mother that you're mature well rounded adult visit policy genius Dot Com holy is a Vegan plant based oat milk originally from Sweden that is now available for the first time in the United States thank you Sweden though I should note among other things Rand Paul and John McCain have now both said that they they'd vote against her of course yesterday was Virginia's Joe Manchin became the first Democrat to say he'd vote Dan this is like another one of those situations like with Pompeo's nomination wear it seems like Republicans will need a few democratic votes for hassle to be confirmed because it's the easy way to compare the top insurance and find the best value for you policy genius this Mother's Day give your mom comfort of knowing you got life insurance for yourself would maybe thrown some flowers so that's what I'm doing job that Donald Trump could possibly nominate then vote for that is you should vote vote your conscience as takers would say but the handle milk I just feel so extravagant if you're not that into the concept of Oat milk it's just going to taste like a boring oat milk and if you are into the concept of Oat milk is going to taste like hearing hassle said she wouldn't allow the agency to restart the torture program she told senators were moral compass was strong and that she wasn't allowed to say to participate in immoral activities even hauling you unpatriotic or risking America because you for because your votes for trump's nominees then you are dangerously it has a website but this one is about milk you can check it out at Oatley dot com that's Oh l.. I Echo in the Mike and look for infirm her do you think that the other Senate Democrats who are up in two thousand eighteen are GonNa Follow Mansions lead I think on but today is different because today we're talking about milk is it as revolutionary as dropping pundit off at the office leaving her to Bark and then walking into an can cover it is used our health insurance yesterday at the dentist we have dental now who helped to the health insurance for spin thirty seven for some era that churns and so I I don't know why the Democrats would would be afraid of saying that they took us hard stance against towards most one of his most popular lines in two thousand and eight was the United States doesn't torture and we should end torture and it was an extremely popular stance thing for trump nominee will help you for into reasons one you will be spared nothing these people on the right do not give a fuck what your actual voting record is they will say that you know I have no doubt that she's has great qualifications and experience and all that other stuff but she was part of this and she hasn't full you know I said this about POMPEII which

Donald Trump Michael Cohen Ziprecruiter US Guy Tommy Iran America Mr Trump John McCain trump trump Sweden Ziprecruiter Dot Novartis ziprecruiter Boston Michael Kohn Dan Pfeiffer
Trump spins new conspiracy theories during news conference, warns of "collusion" by social media companies, television networks, Documents show Mueller reviewed years of Michael Cohen's emails, tracked phone calls from time he worked for Trump

The Situation Room with Wolf Blitzer

39:00 min | 2 years ago

Trump spins new conspiracy theories during news conference, warns of "collusion" by social media companies, television networks, Documents show Mueller reviewed years of Michael Cohen's emails, tracked phone calls from time he worked for Trump

"You see the cat. And all of a sudden, you're star. I'm a hero radio revived seven people put them. He's not on the front page will have split up for you is it because you're black. No you racist. Because people love cats. Coma. FD on through TV. Happening now breaking news pushing new conspiracies President Trump in full conspiracy mode appears with Brazil's president known as the Trump of the tropics after the president alleged social media collusion against Republicans. They both attacked the news media. The Cohen warrants unsealed documents from the Michael Kohn search warrants show, the Muller pro targeted the former Trump lawyer almost from the start scrutinizing, his emails, computer and phone records. What signal does that send to other such next in the Muller investigation, leading the pack. A new CNN poll shows still undeclared Joe Biden leading the democratic pack with Bernie Sanders of fairly close second. But there are new signs that one of the other candidates is also breaking up and assault on North Korea. A daring raid on a North Korean embassy by a shadowy group opposed to Kim Jong Hoon. They reportedly wore masks in escaped in luxury vehicles. Did they make off with top secret information? I'm wolf Blitzer. You're in the situation. This is CNN. Breaking new breaking news. President Trump picks up whereas conspiratorial Twitter rampage left off flanked by the so-called, Trump of the tropics Brazil hard-line president here. Both in our off the president today. Attacked what he called social media illusion against Republicans and warned ominously put a very dangerous situation with the news networks saying he was very proud to hear his guests use the term fake news back comes as federal warrants unsealed enough. Michael Cohen case reveal the president's former lawyer was a target of the Muller probe almost from the start. And that Muller's team was allowed to review years of Cohen's emails, another data Cowan's business dealings and financial crimes were a focus of investigators months before they raided his home and office auspey with congresswoman Madeleine dean of the judiciary committee, and our correspondents and analysts will have full coverage of the day's top stories. First, let's go straight to our chief White House correspondent Jim Acosta. Jim the president is pushing more and more conspiracy theories today. That's right. Well, he did it once again today calling it a dangerous situation. President Trump sounded off on what is a growing conspiracy theory and conservative circles that goes like this that Republicans are being discriminated against by social media companies. It's an accusation the president offered up without any hard evidence. But the president also spent today going after the mainstream press as you mentioned as well as the late Senator John McCain continuing his battle with the nemesis whose legacy appears to haunt Mr. Trump. Lashing onto a new conspiracy theory, President Trump accused the world's biggest social media companies have engaging in what he described as collusion to attack conservatives there is collusion with respect to that. Because something has to be going on onto something happening. With those groups of folks that are running Facebook and Google and Twitter, and I do think we have to get to the bottom of it. President said he supported an effort by California Republican congressman Devin newness Twitter, accusing the tech giant of having a political agenda complaining about non parody accounts that have mocked him standing with Brazil's leader Geijer Bolsonaro who has been dubbed, the Trump of the tropics and uses the term fake news himself, president used the opportunity to once again, slam the American press you look at the networks. You look at the news. You look at the news casts. I call it fake news. I'm very proud to hear the president used the term fake news. But you look at what's happening with the networks. You look at what's happening with different. Shows. And it's it's hard to believe we win. It's a very very dangerous situation. So I think I agree. I think something has to be looked at very closely the president made the complaints spite having a powerful social media presence that supported by conservative news outlets just today. Mr. Trump tweeted to his nearly sixty million followers. The fake news media has never been more dishonest or corrupt than it is right now fake news is the absolute enemy of the people in our country itself. Both in our was asked by the conservative website, the daily caller, whether Democrats in the US are supporting socialist causes almost down his big little respect whatever the ballots stylus on twenty twenty. But I do believe Donald Trump is going to be reelected fully earlier in the day. The president defended his recent tweet storm attacking John McCain saying he'll never forget the late senator's vote against repealing ObamaCare. I think that's disgraceful. Plus there are other things. I was never a fan of John McCain, and I never will be. Thank you. Very much every. President also weighed in on the husband of White House, counselor Kellyanne Conway, George Conway who was questioned whether Mr. Trump is mentally ill weeding modal loser on his tweets about the President George Conway told the Washington Post, the mendacity the confidence is just maddening to watch the tweeting is just the way to get it out of the way. So I can get it off my chest and move on with my life that day. That's basically, it frankly is so I don't end up screaming at her about it. The president made it clear he's ready for the twenty twenty election teeing off on democratic calls to expand the supreme court. No, I wouldn't entertain that. The only reason is that the doing that as they want to try and catch up. So if they can't catch up through the ballot box by winning an election. They want to try doing it in a different way. The president also weighed in on the crisis in Venezuela, repeating that all options are on the table ending that the military option is still on the table. This Trump did tell Bolsonaro that he is making Brazil, a major non-nato ally of the US and both leaders today wolf appear to be in sync nachos on Venezuela. But on a whole range of topics the Brazilian, president was all but fawning over Mr. Trump as he used the term fake news the attacks on the press wolf are just the latest sign that President Trump's rhetoric aimed at the media is spreading across the globe. When Bolsonaro used the term fake news today, President Trump smiled. We'll be certainly did our Jim Acosta at the White House. Thank you. Meanwhile, unsealed warrants. Michael Cohen case show, President Trump's former lawyer and fixer was a key target of the special counsels, bro almost from its inception. Our senior White House correspondent, Pamela Brown has been digging into all of this, Pamela. What are you learning? We'll wolf we're learning that mother's interest in Michael Cohen started much earlier than previously know what the. Gators tracking his incoming and outgoing calls. But it's what is not revealed. The documents that we're raising more questions and answers about one investigation in particular. Hundreds of pages of newly released documents reveal the extent of the probe new President Trump's former attorney and fixer Michael Cohen. President of the United States get still it's almost twenty pages up redaction about Cohen's involvement and hush money payments to women that alleged there's with Donald Trump that signal that investigation may not be over investing special counsel. Robert Muller reviewed years of Cohen's emails going back to the same month Trump declared he was running for president in twenty fifteen. Just two months after Mahler's appointment and eight months before the FBI raided Cohen's home office and hotel room Muller obtained the first warrant then another in August twenty seventeen for Coen's. I cloud and twice. More mother got approval to track the phone numbers of Cohen's, incoming and outgoing calls April twenty eighteen in conjunction with prosecutors from the southern district of New York. The FBI conducted multiple rates on Cohen drawing immediate condemnation from President Trump that's disgrace. It's frankly, a real disquisition say an attack on our country in the true sense attack on what we all stand for the documents detailed the links. Investigators went to to probe Cohen and the days before the raids investigators obtained the thority to use an electronic spoofing device called triggerfish detract Coen cell phones and pinpoint the room coin was stain. And when the FBI raided the Loews regency hotel in New York investigators interviewed. People who worked with Cohen include bankers and his accountant Jeffrey get so to better understand Coen's finances. The documents alleged Cohen was using quote and cryptic communications applications such as WhatsApp signal and dust prosecutor subpoenaed Google for P and other data related to Cohen's g mail accounts. What is not known is the justification from federal prosecutors in York for warrants related to Cohen's involvement in hush money payments to Karen McDougal, and stormy Daniels after writing the FBI was seeking evidence that Cohen also committed a criminal violation of the campaign finance laws around twenty of the following pages are redacted the documents also reveal business relationship between Cohen and the company linked to Russian national Victor expert from January twenty seventeen through August. Twenty seventeen nearly six hundred thousand dollars poured into one of Cohen's Bank accounts from one of Berg's companies. I am ashamed of my own. Failings and publicly accepted responsibility for them by pleading guilty in the southern district of New York since late last year. President Trump has called Cohen a rat. Dane, he is lying about the president in order to strike the deal with prosecutors, very simply Michael cone has lying and he's trying to get a reduced sentence for things that have nothing to do with me. Now Coen's attorney Lanny Davis says the court ordered release only furthers Coen's interest in continuing to cooperate to provide information about President Trump and the Trump organization too long forcement and congress Cohen as you know, wolf reports to prison, and may should we those? All right, stay with us, Pamela. What bring in our senior Justice correspondent Evan Perez. Evan almost twenty pages as we just saw were blacked out or redacted in all these documents that were released. What is that signal? Could there be more indictments more charges in the works? They're very well. Maybe we'll funny. This is also this is an investigation that is still ongoing. We knew that the southern district of New York Manhattan. Prosecutors have been digging in further into particularly the campaign finance violation. That Michael Cohen was part of one of the things that the lawyers who've been sort of overseeing this from the president side has been that essentially the prosecutors are interested to know whether anyone else was part of the. Cover-up was part of the campaign finance violation that occurred here in so that's going to be something that is being investigated further. The question is how long does that investigation. Take certainly I think the president's legal team is prepared that this is going to continue through the end of Donald Trump's presidency. And as we heard a paddlers report, they really went all out to get so much information about Michael Cohen subpoenaing all sorts of information. I suspect if others are looking at that and reading that long document they're saying to themselves. I wonder what they have someone like Roger stone, for example. Right. Exactly. I mean, this is this is an extremely intrusive search that that that the prosecutors and the FBI were able to do and look I mean, they were able to subpoena all of his emails they were able to get into his cloud, his g mail, but one point apparently, a Google refused to turn over certain information that they said were stored overseas, and they were able to later on portrayed a judge to force Google to. To provide that information as Pam pointed out, a his communications on WhatsApp on signal all of these things were turned over as a result of this search, and so you if you anybody who was communicating with Michael Cohen that time including just days before the election. When prosecutors seem particularly interested to find out who he was communicating with has to be looking back and wondering what they have on them as well. And we also learned today, Pamela that rod Rosenstein, the deputy attorney general the number two over the Justice department. He was supposed to be leaving right about now. But he's delaying his departure. What does that mean does the Muller probe have legs is going to go on and on and on? Well, I'll find that. We've been reporting at the Muller probe is wrapping up. I it's in the final stages right now. But certainly rod Rosenstein thought that he would be leaving the department of Justice by now, and that is not the case he is staying longer than he had anticipated and talking to someone close to two Rosenstein, basically, his thinking is. Look he was the one that appointed Robert Muller, and he wants to see this through as we previously reported. He wants to see it through to conclusion, and he someone that he feels this obligation to take the hit or be the heat shield. If there is fallout after all of this is done. And so that is part of why rod Rosenstein is staying beyond mid March. Which was the initial date that he thought he would become by and are reporting today is that he is not given his two week notice to the White House. We'll see we'll have our panel of good reporting as usual joining us now democratic congresswoman battle indeed of Pennsylvania. She's a member of the judiciary committee congresswoman, thanks so much for joining us. Do you think the tactics used by Muller as he investigated, for example, Michael Kohn over these many, many months tell you anything how he's conducted as overall Russia investigation. It confirms for me. What I think we already thought of Robert Muller that he's thorough investigator. He's very thorough thinking attorney. And so it doesn't surprise me that it goes back to June a fifteen if we all remember Donald Trump famously without making any attempt at work stepped onto a downward gliding escalator and Trump Tower on June. The sixteenth of two thousand fifteen and thus began this journey that we have been on here in America, not surprised at all that Muller would be that thorough. These new documents hundreds and hundreds of pages reveal Muller's extensive reach to Cohen's. Data communications should other subjects for example. Roger stone. Be especially worried right now. I'm I'm assuming they are they know that they are being closely looked at we know that Cohen was the so-called fixer and stoned love being in the mix of trying to clean up. Whatever mess was surrounding this man before he was president, and as he campaigned and now after so I just think it's exactly what we expected Muller to do. And all the more reason that we make sure that the Muller investigation is protected and then made fully public as you saw vote in the house. It was unanimous four hundred and some congress people Democrats and Republicans said this Muller report needs to get to the American public twenty two zero that was the role call in the house of representatives. Many of the documents released today remain heavily redacted at particular. The documents pertaining to campaign finance violations. What does that tell you about the potential ongoing current investigations? Well, I think it is important that we recognize that everything is not yet being revealed. So there must be ongoing investigations, we know that Cohen came before a congressional committee just recently after his sentencing and revealed and brought in with him documents on the payments to stormy Daniels and the other woman, so we have documentary evidence that is really troubling that this president personally signed checks that appear to be payoffs. And so these investigations are terribly important this this administration, and this president must be held accountable to the rule of law and our oversight. You sit on the House Judiciary committee, which is conducting an extensive investigation to the president on the eighty one individuals and entities. Your committee is requested documents from we're not told only eight or nine of fully complied. At least so far the White House is likely preparing to claim executive privilege over many of these requested. Democrats have a plan. To counter those claims. I would say that reporting is not perfectly accurate my team met with the judiciary team, Mr. Nadler's team today in DC. And what we know is what we were told is that actually tens of thousands of pages have been turned over and communication is ongoing. With many of the subjects and entities of those eighty one document requests, some have been able to give partial delivery of documents others were working out accommodation. So it's a very broad document request. And so they're working diligently to bring the documents in that the president is reluctant and obstructing turning things in does not surprise me at all that fits the pattern of behavior this administration, Eighty-one individuals and entities that you know, that you requested information documents from how many of them have at least deliver those documents or they're on the way they're saying they are going to fully comply out of the eighty one. I don't have a number. But I was told I asked just recently before I got on here was that eight the reporting of eight correct. And that was not correct the eight or nine fully cooperated, you're saying there are more than already fully cooperated in handover handed over all of the documents is that what you're hearing. Well, what I'm hearing is we've gotten tens of thousands of pages. And so that some have said lead in accommodation. I can give you some documents. Now, I'll need more time for others. So I can't confirm exactly how many fully delivered their documents. We're going to continue to work this story for of yours congresswoman Madeleine dean, thanks so much for joining us. Thank you for having. All right up next. Joined by the Trump of the tropics. President Trump is peddling more conspiracies claiming social media companies are colluding against Republicans and some twenty pages of details from the newly released search warrant documents are still redacted does. That mean, the Muller investigation is still going on. Hiring is challenging, but there's one place you can go. Hiring is simple, fast and smart that place ZipRecruiter with their powerful matching technology. Ziprecruiter scans thousands of resumes to find people with the right experience and invite them to apply to your job. Ziprecruiter is so affective that eighty percents of employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate through the site within the first day and right now listeners can try ZipRecruiter for free at this exclusive web address ZipRecruiter dot com slash situation. That's ZipRecruiter dot com slash sl. Ziprecruiter, the smartest way to hire. Tonight. There are plenty of new questions following the release of hundreds and hundreds of pages of court documents related to the special counsel's investigation of president. Trump's one time personal attorney Michael Cohen. Let's bring in our experts analysts, and we'll talk about this film, mud. Your thoughts on the tactics that Robert Muller used to investigate Michael on months and months before his office hotel room is home, or we're rated by the FBI, as you know, what is the say to you. That Muller was that Muller was granted such extensive access to all sorts of personal information involving Michael Cohen. I'd say one word you need to think about wolf and that is intrusiveness when you look at an investigation. Remember, we're not talking about it terrorism case here where you're worried about somebody blowing something up overnight. You're looking at dirty money here, you can have different tactics different intrusive tactics to look at somebody. You can Google them. Which is open information. Anybody can do that second tactic. You can put an informant up next to him walk up in a bar and say, hey, I want to buy you a beer. The most intrusive tactic is reading somebody's Email and listening to their phone calls to go into a judge in a case. Like this about dirty money and say from the outset we wanna read is emails. They must have had some mud on him. Because I don't think a judge is going to approve this kind of intrusive technique unless the Muller team walks in and says, this guy's really dirty joy Jackson Muller's tactics involving Michael Kohn tell you about the bigger picture the way he's conducted this investigation. I mean, first of all wolf, this is what prosecutors do three takeaways that I take number one the. Prosecutor's job is to get to the truth and sometimes getting to that truth is ugly. And of course, you're going to suspect that they're going to be wiretaps phone calls, incoming outgoing text messages, emails, etc. That's how you get to the truth. Now on the other thing is that who you going to focus on show me who your friends are out show. You who you are. And so naturally if you're trying to get to the core issue of what's happening right with the president presence campaign collusion, you're going to go after the person who you're close to the person who deals with things fixes things for you is intricately involved in what you're all about. Finally, it's about results. Look prosecution is a contact sport. The fact is that they're going to be indictments going to be arrested going to be a raids they're going to be jail time. And so this is what prosecutors do this is what Muller's doing and the thorough nature in which he's doing it is establishing the first point that I made which is to get to the truth at the end of the day. And that's a report that everyone's waiting. We are waiting. Indeed, your should. Some of the current targets of Muller. The US attorney for the southern district of New York. The us attorney here in the district Columbia in northern Virginia. Should some of the other subjects who are still being investigated? Roger stone, for example, worry about the extent the enormous collection of such personal information. Yes. Absolutely. And don't forget wolf this occurred. He Michael Colin was at target almost immediately after after Muller took over. We only knew about the raid in the raid occurred in April, but this was happening in July nine months later. Right. So earlier so Muller knew what he wanted right away to Joey's to Phil's point. What did he have? We don't know. But he was he was figuring out who Michael Cohen was talking to just getting those those phone numbers. He knew what he was looking for here. So if I'm Roger stone, or if I'm anybody else, I'm understood. Banding that Bob Muller knows a lot more than I may think he knows. And I feel the same way about it. There's so much more that we don't know that Muller knows your he certainly knows knows a lot, you know, NIA. After the raid on Michael cones, home office is hotel room at the regency hotel in New York. The president actually express sympathy for his longtime lawyer friend Michael Coney attacked the FBI for quote breaking into his home as residences. Is there anything? Here. We've seen in these new documents that would give some support for example to the president's initial outreach. No, not not really. I mean, this idea that there was that the FBI was essentially breaking and I think also Rudy Giuliani liken them to stormtroopers as well. The president also expressed concern about attorney client privilege. There's nothing in these documents to suggest that the F B I was operating outside of their mandate, essentially, which they would have had to get some agreement on from the department of Justice. So I mean, I think it goes to show how far we've moved from that moment when Trump was expressing sort of sympathy and outrage on Michael Collins behalf to now calling him, basically, Iran and a liar in a snitch. So that's where we are now. And remember Michael Cohen himself never expressed that kind of outrage, right? He is Angela said that the FBI handled themselves professionally in so he was never in line with what the president's says we were very played when everybody's stick around. There's a lot more we need to discuss. And we'll do that. Right. After this. Tired of spending hundreds of dollars for prescription glasses. Our friends at Zanny optical, offering huge variety of high quality stylish frames and state of the art optics starting at just six ninety five. You can get multiple frames with this great pricing for less than one pair. Elsewhere start building your eyewear wardrobe from the comfort of your own home at Xeni dot com. With the latest trends in eyewear available in hundreds of frame styles and materials there isn't a better way to change it up for every season. Plus is any offers prescription sunglasses at incredible prices. Visit Xeni today at Xeni dot com slash CNN. That's Z E N N, I dot com slash CNN. We're back with our analysts, and our experts and Phil Mudd. If you go through this document four hundred pages or so United States district court for the southern district of New York application for a search warrant involving Michael Kohn a lot of it is open. But there are plenty of pages that are fully redacted. What does that say to you? I can tell you what a tells me people keep focusing on on individuals like stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal bet is not the story here wolf, the story is getting simpler, and simpler, let's look at the front end of the pipeline there. Multiple members of the campaign that is including Paul Manafort now, a member of the president's inner circle his personal lawyer who are taking dirty money from Russian connected. People. Kremlin connected, people not declaring dirty money and not declaring to the US government that they're lobbying for those interest. Who the heck would you be lobbying? If you're the personal lawyer for Trump, and if you're the campaign manager, I think by the way, you're lobbying the campaign other end of the pipeline months later, we learn that someone namely Michael Flynn, the national security adviser is actually calling the Russian saying they're going to get a sweet deal on sanctions. So you take dirty money in favor of Kremlin connected people. You don't declare it. You don't declare that? You're an agent of a foreign power. And then all the sudden dirty money that you get help. Somebody get a sweet deal on sanctions. And this is a hoax. It's starting to look pretty ugly to me wolf, Ed. Stories getting simpler, you know, Joey, what do you think the prosecutors are doing with all the information that we don't see that's been blacked out or redacted from this lengthy document yet. Well, if they're putting together the pieces there's no question now, let's remember why it's redacted that way. Remember what the judge said? And releasing the information certainly want to be transparent, you want people to know what's happening at the same time. Prosecutors said well, wait a minute. You're on a we are having ongoing investigation here. So in light of that. Of course, we can't see everything what we do know. And the things we can't see is that what do prosecutors do? Right. They're not in the business of selling refrigerators microwaves anything else there in the business of indicting people there in the business of doing Justice and getting to the heart of the matter. So I would only believe that those redacted areas concern people who are under investigation concern shoes that are yet to drop and concern issues that they will put the pieces together and ultimately release, and I think that will be released in the form of indictments not necessarily by Muller. Perhaps the southern district may be. But at the end of the day, people will be held accountable. We just don't know who specifically or you think some of those pages are redacted because they involve the president of the United States. There's no question about it. I mean, I'd certainly would believe look, you know, that piece I think we could put together we have almost twenty pages. Redacted we have it pertaining to an election issue. We have Michael Cohen speaking to the issue before congress and taking a plea about assisting someone he named his Trump when he testified in terms of circumventing the electoral process, and so yes, I think it pertains to that. They're protecting the integrity of the investigation. We can't know everything. But from the pieces, we do know, I think it will look ugly moving forward to whom ever is named in the nineteen pages that we don't say glory. Let's turn to the twenty twenty presidential campaign CNN as a brand new poll just out all right now among the top Democrats who are running for the presidential nomination. There's been some movement since it would since our last survey in December look at this right now. Joe Biden's still ahead of twenty eight percent Bernie Sanders. Twenty percent McConnell, Harris. She's gone from four percent in December to twelve percent right now. Beto Aurora has gone from nine percent to eleven percent. Everybody else in single digits. Yeah. It's hard to know what this means. It's early on. We we know that Biden Sanders are well known name recognition. Vice president ran last time. And come ahead of us is the one we ought to really be looking at here. She had a great role out when she started her campaign. She's raise a million and a half dollars pretty quickly not as much as betta work who raise six point one million dollar. Bernie Sanders Bernie Sanders, but she in with every group, she's she's made inroads. And so I think if you have to say who's a candidate you ought to be looking at now, this sort of tortoise at this point. I think you'd say you'd say Harris, but let me caution scissor or very early. So what do you think do I think that's right? I mean what I can tell from just talking to voters as they feel. Like, it's wide open at this point. They are very much engaged with the issues with the policy pronouncements of all of these candidates you've gotten big crowds for people like that or work people like a comma, harass people who are out there running and really talking about the issues you saw with Warren last night, very heavily focused on specific policies on in some way, she setting the pace I think for a lot in terms of policy, but in terms of binding here, I think if you're biting you like these numbers, but if you're buying you also wonder if this is sort of the ceiling for him, right? He is well known he's at the twenty eight percent at this point would the day. He announced essentially Vida best his candidacy, and if you're somebody like here issue like this because you do see some momentum. But listen, it's so early at point by that announced you. Incented? We all into early next month. He's going to make the formal announcement. That was numbers go up as a result of becoming an official candidate. We don't know, you know, as Nanjing that could be the best day of his campaign. We know we have no we have no idea. But the thing that if you look at our polling today, what matters the most to democratic voters is somebody who can beat Donald Trump. Let's they're looking at all of this. And maybe they're looking at Joe Biden saying he's got the right stuff to be to be Donald Trump. He can take Donald Trump on. That's what they want. I mean, they're looking at the issues here about the issues, but they want to win more than anything else. And the problem for the Democrats right now again, if you look at our poll, and it's early is they're not as energized as Republicans, which is just the opposite of the way it was during the midterm elections. So that's good news for Donald Trump still early still early wolf. We'll see what happens guys stick around. There's more news. We're watching including some significant safety concerns over. The huge smoke plume created by a fire at a chemical plant near Houston and later new details emerging right now. But a brazen raid on a North Korean embassy being blamed on a mysterious group opposed to the dictator Kim Jong. Remember to create an ad like this one visit pure winning dot com slash CNN. We're monitoring a huge fire at a chemical plant near Houston. The fierce blaze has been burning since Sunday and spread to more chemical storage tanks last night, and it's sending towering clouds of black smoke into the sky and raising serious questions about air quality, C, N N's, Ed eleven derozan. The scene for us at the fire intensified earth after there was a dip of the water pressure needed to fight the blaze. What's the very latest? Well, they're trying to figure out what caused those water pressure problem. But here the main concern is that just a few hours ago. We were told there were five tanks burning inside, this international terminals company. Also known as IT this chemical plant there were there were five tanks burning. But now, we're told the latest information from company officials is that eight tanks are burning in this his sending up a massive plume of Spokane smoke here in the Harris County area, we were just southeast of the city of Houston. It is hard to understand just how widespread this plume, and what kind of eerie shadow it is a sensually casting over large parts of Harris County where this plume of smoke is we'll pushing out to the north west from the city out into Harris County in literally as you drive around town. It is a shadow that is cast over the city. Now, having said that officials here say that air quality standards, are okay that it is safe that this plume of smoke is essentially gone up. So. High into the sky that it is not affecting air quality on the surface. But of course, that could change officials here have said because of the favorable weather conditions that that is what has helped out this particular situation. But clearly it's something that they'll continue to monitor. The winds have been rather strong here wolf throughout the day pushing that plume of smoke up here from south east Houston across the city of Harris County, and right now those firefighters inside that facility are essentially trying to contain it waiting for this fire to burn itself out wolf, they're using foam in water to try to contain it. But it's not exactly clear how much longer it will take to put out the fire awful situation over there. Ed Levin Dera, thanks for that update. Coming up. There's new details about daring daylight raid on a North Korean embassy. It's being blamed on a shadowy group of opponents of Kim Jong Hoon are they a serious threat to his regime. I'm Biagio Messina. And I'm joke soon. We're the producers behind HSEN television documentary series unmasking killer. Join us as we explore the identification capture and arrest of Joseph James, the Angelo the alleged Golden State killer in a special ten part podcast series unmasking killer, all new episodes premiering Tuesday. February twelfth subscribe today at apple podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. Tonight. We're learning new details about a shadowy group of North Korean opponents of Kim Jong noon. They're believed to have pulled off a daring raid only days before the brutal dictator met with President Trump in Vietnam. Brian Todd has been looking into this forest, Brian what have you found out? We'll forgetting new information from sources tonight on that rate on North Korea's embassy in Madrid. And on this mysterious group of dissidents, they're very secretive. They wanna bring down Kim Jong Hoon. And they've just pulled off a brazen operation that is sure to have angered the dictator. It was a raid. Stunning in its awed acidy an operation launched against one of Kim Jong wounds. Most important foreign embassies all done in broad daylight. According to Spanish media reports a group of assailants infiltrated North Korea's embassy in Madrid late last month. The perpetrators reportedly wore masks restrained embassy, staff members, stole several items including computers, then got away in luxury vehicles to barge into an embassy and to overpower the the people there, and then hold them hostage and some reporting that they beat them. They put hoods over their head of it's incredibly brazen. A source familiar with the incident tells CNN a mysterious North Korean dissident group called chili civil defence is believed to be behind the attack at this is the only group we've known to be militant action-oriented clearly against the Keene regime and clearly keen on bringing. Down the Kim regime by any means available. The Washington Post was first to report the involvement of chill Lima civil defense in the embassy rate in Madrid in two thousand seventeen that group posted this video. My name's Kim hansell. From North Korea pot of the Kim family. My father has been killed few days ago. This is the son of Kim Jong nam Kim Jong UN's half. Brother who was killed in a VX nerve gas attack at the Kuala Lumpur airport, a hit which South Korean and Malaysian officials accused Kim Jong Hoon of ordering, but which Kim's regime denied when it first posted the video chilly missile defense said Kim Jong nam son and his family were transmitting from a secret location and feared for their lives. We're very grateful to. We hope. This gets better senior this organization somehow spirited out of Macau. They've been harboring him or protecting him back in Madrid Spanish authorities confirmed to CNN an investigation is underway. But they're not giving any other information. The rate took place on February twenty-second just days before President Trump's second summit with Kim Jong own in Hanoi. Experts say given that it's doubtful. The US would have risked being involved tonight. US intelligence is not commenting on what happened in Spain. Or on this shadowy group still analysts say if chill Lima civil defense was behind the raid. And if they did steal computers what they took could be valuable to US intelligence. The North Korean embassy in Madrid has been identified by experts as a hub of illicit activity running contraband running arm selling arms to hot conflict areas all over the world and also procuring luxury goods aim to keep Kim Jong UN's elites content and happy. Another reason why western intelligence might benefit from information on those computers taken in that raid, a top North Korean official name Kim Hak shoal Kim Jong UN's point man in nuclear negotiations with the United States was until recently posted to that. Same. North Korean embassy in Madrid? Now, the Chilean civil defense group has just posted a statement on its website. Neither confirming nor denying any involvement in that rate on the North Korean embassy in Madrid the group asks the media and others to keep the identities of its members secret if anyone learns those names analysts say there is no doubt Kim Jong UN's regime has its operatives tracking members of this group all over the world likely trying to kill them. We'll know Brian. There's been other cloak and dagger intrigue recently at another North Korean embassy. Is that right? That's right wolf North Korea's top man at their embassy in Rome. A man named Joe song Gill. Well, he vanished into thin air along with his wife back in November. He has still not resurfaced. Now, if he hasn't been captured by the regime, he is believed to be seeking asylum in the US or Europe. Right Todd reporting for us. Thank you coming up. Breaking news. President Trump spins new conspiracy theories warning of collusion against Republicans by social media companies and TV networks.

President Trump president Michael Cohen Jackson Muller CNN FBI attorney Michael Kohn prosecutor Kim Jong Hoon United States Trump North Korea Roger stone wolf Blitzer Kim Jong Google New York
Obstruction in plain sight

All In with Chris Hayes

44:24 min | 2 years ago

Obstruction in plain sight

"Tonight on all in. He should give information maybe on his father in law because that's the one that people wanna look at obstruction in plain sight is a week. I the man who could tell all about the president's alleged crimes says he won't testify in public because of presidential threats. I would say he's been threatened by the truth tonight reaction from oversight. Democrats. I feel like I'm in the middle of a godfather movie. And where we go from here. I guarantee you. Day in day becomes night. That we will hear from mystical period, plus speaker Pelosi shuts the door on Donald Trump. I don't believe it's ever happened before at the pain from the shutdown continues. And the president's family says suck it up. It is a little bit of pain, but it's going to be for the future of our country. All that. And my interview with the latest twenty twenty hopeful corruption fighting lying the crisis. It's gotten peop- Buddha. Judge joins me exclusively all in starts. Now. Good evening from New York. I'm Chris as the president of the United States appears to have successfully intimidated a witness out of testifying before congress in the country in an investigation centered on the president's own misconduct. Michael Kohn has now indefinitely postponed. His February seventh appearance before the house oversight committee citing threats by the president and his legal team against cones family that hearing was set to be the American public's I ever opportunity to hear sworn testimony about the president's hush money payments during the campaign about efforts to build a Trump Tower in Moscow throughout the presidential race. And about the ensuing cover up ever since cone was sentenced in December for lying to congress about the Moscow project and other crimes the president. And his lawyer have repeatedly publicly suggested that Cohen's father in law should be investigated. He should give information maybe on his father in law because that's the one that people wanna look at because where does that money that's the money in the family? And I guess he didn't wanna talk about his fatherly tried to get his sentence. Reduced. What is this father in law's name? I don't know. But you'll find out and you'll look into it because nobody knows what's going on over there. It's far the words the Ukrainian his father-in-law has millions and millions. Of course, it's not I'm telling you it comes from the Ukraine. The reason that's important is he may have ties to something called organized crime. Michael Cohen is withholding it because it's testify about that would be very dangerous to the father in law and Michael Cohen. And instead he's going after the president. Now, there may very well be other reasons Michael cone does not want to testify publicly before congress. The guy has a checkered past. I think you could say, but as today's about Cohen's claim that he'd been intimidated out of testifying the president appeared to take credit. He says he's been pressing by. I would say he's been threatened by the truth. He's only been threatened by the truth. And he doesn't want to do that probably from me or other of his clients, his clients, Democrats Elijah Cummings and Adam Schiff, chairman of the house oversight committee in the house intelligence committee, respectively responded to cones announcement joint statement, quote efforts to intimidate witnesses scare their family members or prevent them from testifying before congress are textbook mob tactics that we condemn in the strongest terms our nation's laws prohibit efforts to discourage intimidate or otherwise pressure witness not to provide testimony to congress cone is scheduled to begin his three year prison sentence on March six leaving a pretty small window to reschedule his appearance. And if the public doesn't get to hear from Cohn directly, we may not get answers to some of the most urgent questions about the president's conduct. Especially those raised in buzzfeed's contest. A report last week did the president direct coned ally. The congress. About the Moscow project and was he actively involved in talks about the project while he was running for president according to Rudy Giuliani the project never progressed far enough demand. Much the president's attention Guiliani telling me yorker, no money was ever paid no plans wherever made there were no drafts. Nothing in the file. And then lo and behold, wouldn't you believe it BuzzFeed published the contents of said nonexistent file containing both plans and dress including multiple detailed renderings of the proposed Trump Tower in Moscow interior and exterior views with the Trump name right at top looking over views of the Russian capital. Plus a proposal for a branded spa by vodka Trump and a breakdown of the Trump organizations licensing fee, and it's kind of condo sales commercial read another revenue. So like really said nothing in the file in their statement today shift and coming said cones postponement won't stop them from getting to the truth. I guarantee you. Show is night becomes day in day becomes night. That we will hear from mystical period. I have not decided exactly how we will go about it. But I promise you we will hear from next Gus is a member of both the house oversight committee, the intelligence committee democratic congresswoman Jackie speier of California, congresswoman, what is your understanding of what happened here. Well, I know as much as you do Chris. This is a stunning declaration by Michael cone that his family is being threatened. He is being threatened by the president of the United States. This is called witness tampering. This is a crime, and the congress of the United States has to exert its authority against a president now who's acting more like Putin every day exhort exhort authority how well we will find a way to have Mr. Cohen come in and testify. And I don't think there's any question that Michael Cohen knows a great deal for ten years. He's been doing the bidding for then Donald Trump. Whether it was providing hush money to his girlfriend's or working on the many projects that really are troublesome the Toronto hotel, the so hotel and the Panama hotel all had Russian connections. All had mob money. And I think that's what we need to find out. More about is intimidating a witness or or tampering with a witness a crime to your mind. Oh, absolutely. It's a crime. That's an attempt to silence a witness, and that's what the president's doing because he does not want his dirty laundry. Aired so the president. I mean, if you're saying that intimidating a witness tampering with a witness a crime, the president has committed that crime in full view. I mean, these are not like we got some leak, right recordings. He just has been doing it in public. Then the president has committed a crime. He's doing the restriction right in front of everyone. I think that will become clear after we speak with Michael Cohen, and that's going to be very important to both mister Cummings and Mr. Schiff as chairs of those two committees. When you speak to him is the idea. I mean, I guess what you're not the chair here. So something of the chair, I guess is probably working out. But are there sort of work arounds? Would it be in private is any of that being discussed yet or you guys all just jesting news? Well, I think at this point, we're just digesting digesting the news. But it's clear you can there's many opportunities. You can have a private interview much like we've done through the intelligence committee for the last year. He can be subpoenaed. There's many avenues that can be attempted. What does it say about your ability to function as a Coequal branch of government providing oversight? If the president is able to without facing any sanction publicly intimidate witnesses away from testifying before you. Well, I think it's a gross abuse of power. And at some point the president is going to pay for that we have to build the case. But I see his the extent to which he has done things to Michael Kohn beyond. The tweets are things that we're going to have to explore. There's also the possibility, and I just want to get your reaction. This Michael Cohen wanted to testify for other reasons, and this was essentially conveniently pretextual for him to get out of a public testimony. He wanted to avoid what do you make of that theory? I actually don't think that's the theory. I think Michael Cohen wanted to come and testify much like he is done so publicly in a number of settings now because he's looking for ways to hopefully, reduce the sentence. That's what I believe is the reason for you do not think that he's not telling the truth about the motivation that he and his family genuinely feel threatened. Pressured intimidated, by the president's words, well, that's certainly his declaration. And it's I think the the Congress's obligation to find out what he means specifically by all of that you're going to have to move pretty quickly though chair Cummings. Oh said even if he goes to prison that's not a hard deadline. You can still talk to him from there is that your understanding as well. Well, I believe that's what the chairman said. That's what will be the case. All right, congresswoman, Jackie speier. Thank you for your time tonight for more than the stakes the public appearance for Michael Cohen joined by MSNBC legal analyst, you'll wind banks former Watergate prosecutor and Pulitzer prize winning journalist, David Johnson, author of it's even worse than you think. With the Trump administration is doing to America now out in paperback. Jill you've been very vocal about this as someone who serves a prosecutor during Watergate, but also really thinks there's a vital need for public hearings. What does this mean, what does the news today mean this is terrible because you were just having a conversation in which there was a question of possibly having. Private testimony instead of a public hearing. If that happens, then President Trump has achieved his goal of suppressing information that the public should have the public needs to hear and see this it helped dramatically during Watergate to have public support based on their knowledge of what the witnesses were saying, and who was credible and also to answer one question that you asked her section fifteen twelve of title eighteen gives a twenty year penalty for tampering with witnesses and threatening a witness making them feel that their family is in danger is definitely witness tampering and a federal felony. It's remarkable David that the tactics being described the president mob like by the two chairs the committee. They just scan as nor I mean, no one even objects to it. Right. You can imagine a universe in which the two chairs committee saying the president is acting like a mobster. Would raise a great hue and cry but that doesn't even ruffle any feathers now because the president does act like a mobster in this regard. Well, because he is if you just go back two years, what was one of the big discussions. We had on your show. Don't normalize this behavior, you're going to see. And unfortunately, that's what's happening. So Donald Trump is engaging in witness tampering. He's engaging in trying all sorts of things that should be absolutely improper for any president behaving like a banana Republic dictator, and it's sort of like, yeah. Well, that's what Donald does we shouldn't relinquish to that. Well, and the logic there jail that you saw what I was talking to the congresswoman, right? This is a crime the president is committed and he's going to have to pay for it. I mean, did Nixon ever publicly intimidate witnesses in the way that Donald Trump has done just in his tweets and pronouncements about Michael Kohn? Nothing could compare to what's happening now in terms of the public. Analogy of it. But the other differences that Nixon used more of the carrots, whereas Donald Trump seems to be dangling pardons, but also using sticks. He is definitely threatening. So it's it's yes, I don't think Nixon ever did anything quite as dramatic as this. I don't know the behind the scenes he wasn't doing it. We know that he was had an enemies list, and he was going after people, but it wasn't like this. How important is Michael Collins testimony cheer my David as someone who's covered? The Trump worked for decades. All right. Cohen has enough information that with a skillful examination he could be sitting there for weeks. They have a here's a lot of information on many different deals. Many of them go right back to Russian mobsters. Jackie speier, noted three of the hotel deals. Toronto the SoHo which I've written a lot about in the Panama deals all have Russian mobsters involved in them. And so there's plenty that Michael Cohen can talk about it. We're going to see his house skillful as the examination by Elijah Cummings committee, and by the lawyers for that committee. Well, and there's also a key question here. It seems to me Jill two things one is that BuzzFeed report, which is disputed, of course, by the spokesperson for Robert Muller. It was unclear what was being disputed. It's still unclear buzzfeed's said they're standing by their reporting one of the details in that piece was that the president received face to face briefings ten times during the course of that campaign on the Moscow tower deal if that is true that is an enormously consequential. Fact, and it would be good to hear from Michael Kohn under oath whether he would attest to that. Absolutely. There. There are so many questions I hope that the congress will get good legal prosecution advice. Good litigators to draft the questions and the followup because that's what's important. It's not just the initial question. But it's the follow up. That's so important. And I think there's a lot of their their. We'll hear it needs to go forward. And this gets to the bigger question. David, it seems to me is the old ward of the president known when you know, how involved was Donald Trump with these deals. How involved according to your reporting has generally been deals and the deals that you've looked at? Well, Donald doesn't know the details of his own deals. I've had lunch with them about one where he became very disturbed. He realized I understood the deal better than he did. But he's the motivating person here in these deals and Donald works in symbolic ways. As you saw for example today where he in gross offense to our constitution announced. He was just going to go to the house of representatives to give a speech when he has no right to walk on that floor because it's part of a Coequal branch of government when he's doing business deals with people. He keeps comprised of where is it? Who do I need to pressure? Who do I need to do a favor for what kind of money am I going to get not any of the fine detail work, those ten meetings, if they actually took place that's deeply damning because he was claiming no business of any kind. Well, running for president that compromises our national security. It makes us less safe. And it's a key point that we don't know whether that's covered by the denial of the special counsel's office at this point that just hang. Being out there and Michael Cohen under oath would be someone that might be able to resolve that at least or lead some kind of evidence one direction the other Joe wind banks and David Johnson. Thank you both for being here. The most powerful woman in the United States tells the president he can't not come in her house. Nancy, Pelosi's power move ahead and on day, thirty three the Trump shutdown. Why the Trump campaign is telling the millions who are suffering to just deal with it in two minutes. President Trump's campaign advisor and daughter-in-law Lara Trump. The wife of Eric Trump is offering marie-antoinette style message to the eight hundred thousand federal workers going without pay because you're wealthy father-in-law. Shut down the government. It's not fair to you. And we all get that. But this is so much bigger than any one person. It is a little bit of pain, but it's going to be for the future of our country. So I would just tell them, please stay strong. We pre appreciate everything that you're sacrificing. We're behind you. And we're going to do everything we can I know the president is doing everything he can to resolve this quickly. Let's hang in there in Washington DC today. Hundreds of citizens marched on Capitol Hill holding up empty plates and chanting, weedy paychecks, not more food. Banks is now date thirty three of the Trump shutdown and with unpaid TSA workers calling out at record grades. The president of the flight attendants union is now suggesting the idea of a general strike and warning of possible gaps in. Safety and security in air travel. According to the Washington Post, hundreds of IRS employees are skipping work, which of course, could delay tax refunds and Trump's former chief of staff John Kelly is now joined a letter appealing to Trump and congress to fund the department of homeland security in addition, the coastguards top officer is telling the world that enough is enough. Ultimately, I find it unacceptable that coastguard men and women have to rely on food pantries and donations to get through day to day life at servicemembers as the shutdown drags on Trump's approval ratings are falling to levels not seen since he effectively defended the white supremacist who marched in Charlottesville, a new AP poll, which reflects what we are seeing and other polling shows Trump's approval rating down from forty two percent just one month ago to thirty four percent. Now joining me now, one of the New Democrats in the house congresswoman, Katie hill of California. I guess I'll start with this congresswoman you have spent the first thirty days of your life as if ever congress in a government shutdown. What is that experience been like, well, it's certainly not what we expected, but it's also very much emblematic of coming into what we saw broken government. And so here we are. We're ready to start working. And I think part of that is is exactly the kind of activism that we've we've begun to do since everything else is kind of on hold right now when you say activism, my understanding is you. One of those members of congress at went over to seek a meeting with Mitch McConnell. Yeah. What why did you take part in that? Well, for me, you know, it stops with him. Right. This is where it stuck right now is that he needed to call vote. And we're glad that he did. But we were our plan was just to go over and say, listen as members of the freshman class people who were sitting here with a mandate to do something we need we need a vote. We need a chance for us to see who's voting to reopen the government who's not, and we can take our course of action based on that. But it's I think there's a couple of things at play the first is that you know, that that's who was holding things at that point in time. But the second is that this is these kinds of symbolic gestures are really meaningful. We have to we have to do more than just sit around and wait for for him to finally decide when he wants to do something we have to actually take the steps that are going to put that pressure on him. And you've passed in the house. I think nine different times of nine different bills that would reopen the government. Is this radicalizing in some sense? What I mean by it is this people go to congress, and they have some sense of how you're going to interact with people cross the aisle. How things get done how the committee process works, and what you're walking into is the sort of buzzsaw of intransigence. What does it what does that taught you in the first thirty days? Well, we've all learned that the norms are just not there right now. And I think that the goal of the democratic congresses to is to try and restore a lot of that. But I don't think that that means that we have to follow all the traditions and keep with the same kind of sense of. Oh, wait, your turn stand in line be quiet at cetera. I'm because that's just not going to happen with this class. So I think that that's kind of I don't think that there's a playbook at this point with everything that's going on with government with Trump with the shutdown. This is all unheard of. And we have to react accordingly. There's a lot of worrying news about the shutdowns effects today news that Mulvaney is asking agencies. What would suffer if they went into March and April the president's alright? He said he willing to keep government shutdown for a year. This came from the national air traffic controllers today just about an hour ago and really made the hair on the back of my neck stand up. We cannot even calculate the level of risk currently at play nor predicts the point at which the entire system will break it is unprecedented. What's your reaction to that? Well, first of all the regional air traffic control center that controls all of the flights coming into southern California and surrounding areas six thousand flights a day is in my district. It's in Palmdale and I met with those air traffic controllers this past weekend. And it's truly terrifying. I mean, you don't want to say that it's gonna take a disaster catastrophe of some kind and this thing, but it if this continues it very well could hit that point. And it's not because these men and women aren't doing their jobs. It's because the answer Larry supports aren't there. They don't inspections aren't able to occur. They're short staffed people are having to choose whether to stay home, or you know, what they're gonna do when they can't pay for childcare and pay for gas. I mean, it's really. Really scary and people should be worried. And that's why it's so important for us to mobilize right now. Final question is on news today that the homeland security or Thompson who's the chair the homeland security committee in in the new democratic house that he and the speaker a working on a letter to produce with five point seven billion for new border security and judges money possibly repair current wall. But no money for new barriers is the thinking now in your caucus that basically he we have to give him away out. Because otherwise this thing is just going to go on and something will break. Well, I wouldn't. I mean, I would say that we were going to always put forward some kind of a plan around our own border security package along with immigration reform. And it's you know, this is saying look, this is this is what we believe based on evidence based practices. We should be doing to secure our borders, and it's not a wall. It's not a two thousand mile long concrete barrier. Frankly, it never was going to be. But here's what we're proposing. And at the end of the day, I think that we're gonna have to see what comes out of it. Right. And what the final product looks. Like, but we do we really do need to have a place to go. Right. And and we recognize that not everybody's going to be happy. But right now, the pressure has to be on the Senate it has to be on the people. You know, Mitch McConnell, thankfully is brought it to a vote, but whoever doesn't vote for reopening the government tomorrow needs to be getting that pressure. And I'm saying this from my personal capacity. I can't tell people in my in my official capacity to activate but I come from an activist background. And this is the moment where senators need to hear from people and their there's this day of action happening on the day that the state of the union was supposed to be on the twenty ninth coordinated in large part by indivisible and move on in these other activist groups that got us elected. And I would just encourage people in whatever way you can we need to hear from the people not the president on that day on January twenty nine th the day of the schedules say the union and a mobilization that move on indivisible and others are putting together congressmens, Katie hill, new to congress and getting the quite the introduction. Thank you very much for your time tonight. Thank you so much for having me next President Trump's very public attempt to. Sideline. Speaker of house speaker of the house Nancy Pelosi backfires miserably the details next. The congress of the United States as you may. Well know is part of a co equal branch of the government under our constitution. The person in charge of one half of that branch. The house of representatives is the speaker of the house. The speaker has a lot of power over what happens in the house who is permitted in under what conditions and who will speak to the assembly members, she even controls the cameras and the lights inside the gallery and today speaker Pelosi flexed, those constitutional muscles after the president unable to take a hand informed her by letter he would be showing up on the twenty ninth less than a week from today to give his state of the union address that despite her asking him, quite pointedly to reschedule speaker Pelosi responded with basically you will do no such thing. Quote. I am writing to inform you that the house of representatives will not consider a concurrent resolution authorizing the president's state of the union address in the house chamber until government has opened joining me now former Senator Barbara Boxer host of the boxer podcast and. Former congresswoman Donna Edwards opinion columnist for the Washington Post, Donna, I'll start with you a what do you make of this back and forth. Well, first of all, I think that speaker Pelosi continues to teach President Trump a lesson about the constitution and about the separation of powers and about the Coequal branches of government. And she did that again today. She does control the lights the microphone the locks on the doors. And so this is a non starter for the president just the way his border proposal as nonstarter it's striking Senator boxer as someone who worked with Nancy Pelosi is from the California delegation. There was fifty million dollars by the congressional leadership fund put into making her enemy number one during that last election. Here's the polling right now from CBS news better job handling shutdown negotiations. Forty seven percent Pelosi Trump thirty five percent, the president's approval ratings down in the basement, basically. What is his floor AP has met? Thirty four percent CBS at thirty six percent. She is politically besting him right now. Amidst this tremendous unnecessary suffering. It is wild to sit. She's doing the right thing. And in politics. I've always believed that I know Donna believes it because I've watched her when you do the right thing, you're rewarded. The people may not get it at first, but they come around. Look, I went to thirty five's state of the union addresses in my time in the house and in the Senate, and you know, they are big productions they are security challenges, and the constitution doesn't say that the president shall go to the house. It says from time to time he should make a report to the congress on the state of the union. There is no necessity for him to do that. These are not normal times, we are in a national emergency because Trump will not open up the government and the people who we rely on for safe skies for safe food for safe drinking water, and I could go on safety at sea the coast guard there. They're standing in food lines. We are not going to have a fancy state of the union where everyone is smiling and standing and applauding when this is going on. So he needs to get a life. His family needs to get a life. And they need to understand people are suffering many more than a million people are suffering because of this yet Donna I mean, what's soap is about. This is the president has defied political gravity in many ways he divided throughout the primary season. He won an election through very narrow electoral college win here. He is he is losing out to to this is unpopular. His ideas are unpopular the shutdown is unpopular the walls unpopular, and yet here we are. Well, and it's exactly the reason that Democrats should stand their ground on the question of opening the government, I negotiating around border security and then at the end of the day doing smart border security. See that really will secure the borders. And I think that that's what the American people are seeing is that the president's ideas are not ideas that will work. And so that accounts were the his negative showing apart from the fact that he really is acting like a child when it comes to these negotiations. I've likened it to having the bully on the playground. Take all your marbles. And then come back a few weeks later and say, and by the way, you can have your marbles back for a little while if you give me your lunch money Democrats should not be held hostage. Like this. You know, the polling here is when you dig into it. A Senator boxer is pretty striking. This is some new numbers among women all women of all races at this city's education levels. He has a seventy one percent disapproval rating seventy one percent of women in the country. Disapproved the president among independence, seventy one percent disapprove among college grad. Seventy six percent. Those are really strike. Have you? You seen numbers like that? For president Senator. Well, personally, I have not. But I know when Nixon was going down the tubes. He hit about thirty two percent. And let me tell you. I think it's so smart of you to bring up the poll numbers because when I was asked a week ago when is this all going to change its when the Republicans in the Senate crack, and they are beginning to crack Mitch McConnell came out of his shell. He's going to offer up open up the government. I don't know how many Republicans will vote for that once their proposal goes down. But I am telling you watch those numbers because at some point it's just too much pain for these Republicans, many of whom face tough reelections. That's a great point Donna, there's a few people like Susan Collins, Cory Gardner reverend's. We looking at what their vote is on these two votes, which McConnell has the president's proposal of wall money and radically changing asylum, and then the clean. In CR just reopened the government. What do you think will seek? Well, I think that the Mitch McConnell said he wasn't going to put show bills on the floor of the Senate. Well, that's exactly what he's doing is going to be a failure. There are ten bills that have been passed in the house and sent over to the Senate that would reopen every part of government and negotiate again on on border security. Here's where I think that there is no end really for this for this president. And I think what Republicans are seeing is that they're going to go home yet another weekend, and it's a weekend that should be another pay day. It's a weekend where eight hundred thousand people aren't getting paid plus contractors, and plus all the misery out there. Republicans especially the ones who are going to be up for reelection will not be able to continue to tolerate this kind of insanity. Prediction. Susan Collins, Corey gardeners are both yea votes on the clean CR tomorrow. That's what I think Senator Barbara Boxer and congresswoman Donna Edwards. Thank you silicon. South bend, Indiana. Mayor Pete footage declared his candidacy today, and he joins me exclusively for his very first interview tonight. Plus the president's obsession with Mars is tonight's thing. One thing to next. Thing. One tonight, everyone who works in President Trump's orbit has to develop a very particular survivor skill the ability to pretend that the nonsense. He saying is totally normal and makes perfect sense. Dole heading out this face. I hate to say whether we like it or not it's all heading out to space that we have tremendous support. We have tremendous support. Remember all that support, Tom? We have great support. Everybody loves the space. This is where it's at this is where it's pace is aware. It's at now the problem with everyone just going along like that is normal is that is how you get this prisoner. Trump will also sign a new space policy directive that will lay out our plans and our timeline to create the new six branch of the armed forces. The U S space force. Yes. They're actually doing space force, or at least they're pretending to keep from happy. Who knows but give an inch engine? He'll want to put a man on Mars in time for the twenty twenty election that thing to in sixty seconds. For someone. So obsessed with space, you'd think the president might have might have actually learned something about it by now, you can even watch a sci-fi movie and pick up a thing or two about how space works, but Donald Trump ain't much for learnings. Not even from real astronauts told me Mars, what do you see a timing for actually sending to Mars is there a schedule. And when would you see that happening? Well, I think is your Bill directed. It'll be approximately end the twenty thirties. Unfortunately, space like takes a lot of time and money so getting there will require some international cooperation to get the the it to be a planet wide approach in order to make it successful just because it is very expensive endeavor. But it is so worth wild doing what we want to try and do it during my first term or at worst during my second term. So we'll have to speed that up a little bit. Okay. Just meet it up a little bit. Hello. No. I'm sure he was just kidding. Except that there's new reporting the president offered the acting NASA administrator and Infinity budget to get us to Mars by the end of his first her to which the administrator had to tell the president gently. No sorry, but he didn't think it was possible. Like, even if we left right now. Anyway, the good news is the president learned from this interaction, and it never came up again. No. Of course, I'm kidding. I Catholic president John Kennedy himself of Irish descent to set our nation's sights on the moon. We're looking at Mars, by the way because anybody has been trying to top them. We're going to get there. It's going to move it along pretty good. A lot of things have happened. Mike have to do with that subject way ahead of schedule. Michael cones, February seventh hearing in front of congress is offer now, but House Democrats still have a lot in the works acting attorney. General Matthew Whitaker is do peer before the judiciary committee on February eighth. And chairman Jerry Nadler is already warning Whitaker. He would view with considerable skepticism and he effort to decline to answer questions today. The house oversight committee announced it is launching an in-depth investigation into the security clearance process of the White House and the Trump transition team. This is one of those things got memory hold. But remember senior adviser to the president Jared Kushner had to refile his ethics disclosure at least forty times it's unclear whether Kushner actually ever got top level clearance. But the Washington Post reported last summer, he was granted only top secret status a level that does not allow him to see some of the country's most closely guarded intelligence. There's also the issue of former White House staff secretary rub porter. Remember him? He was the gentleman. Who is accused of violence by both of his ex wives. And the White House knew that about him and was warned by the FBI and kept him in there without a clearance doing his job. And don't forget President Trump's personal assistant, Jon mcentee. He was fired after more than a year on the job went an investigation found he was a frequent gambler whose expensive habit posed a security risk oversight. Chairman Elijah Cummings has also requested that the NRA send everything it has on current natural security visor John Bolton's interactions with foreign nationals that is in response to Bolton's appearance in a video organized by none other than admitted Russian agent Maria Buthe separately commerce secretary will be Ross will testify for Cummings oversight committee March. A he's expected to be asked about his previous outright lies under oath before. Congress about his motivations to add a controversial citizenship question on the twenty twenty cents is one Trump official who says he won't testify before congress, health and Human Services Secretary. Alex as our HHS is the parent agency of the office of refugee resettlement. They're the ones that oversaw the ripping away of thousands of migrant children from their parents. And according to an inspector general report head no means reuniting them again at last count. There are about one hundred and sixty kids that still have not been reunited that man. The person who oversees all that, Alex as our was overseeing the humanitarian disaster imposed by our government, and is now refusing to come before congress to explain himself. But now facing democrat control the house, it's unlikely you will have a choice coming up. Meet your newest candidate for president Peter Budaj. It is joins me next. Early polling in a crowded primary field is notoriously unreliable infect more often than not is to proxy for name recognition. There's one bull recently that I think gives a sense of just how wide open the democratic race for the presidential nomination is a plurality of voters in a recent USA today Suffolk university poll named someone entirely new as their preferred candidate in the field. Well, today, we got the presidential announcement of someone almost none of the democratic. Primary voters has ever heard of in other words, someone entirely new. I belong to generation stepping forward. Right now. We're the generation lived through school shootings served in Moore's after nine eleven and we're the generation that stands to be the first to make less than our parents, unless we do something v p put 'age is the Thirty-seven-year-old mayor south bend, Indiana with bio that reads like it was written by Aaron Sorkin and out married. Gay Afghanistan, vet and Rhodes scholar who is elected mayor of his hometown the age of twenty nine today. He announced he's exploring an exploratory committee to run for president. And joining me now is Pete Buddha. Judge good to have you on mayor. Why are you running for president? Well, I believe that we need new voices. It's time for a new generation to step forward to offer leadership. And as you noted people are looking for something entirely new. Of all the people in the United States. Why should you have the most powerful job in the world? Well, I get that you wouldn't expect to hear this from the youngest person in the conversation. But a lot of it has to do with experience. I have a different experience from a lot of the other people stepping forward the experience of being an executive being responsible for the wellbeing of the hundred thousand residents in our city the experience of being sent overseas on the orders of president experience. That helps me understand how the decisions that are made in Washington affect people at the level of everyday life. You know, at the end of the day, I have more years of government experience than the president to the United States. I have more executive experience than the vice president, and I have more military experience than the two of them put together my experience, my perspective. And again that of a new generation with the different outlook from the industrial midwest and a city that in my view proves that resentment and nostalgia is not the formula for the middle of the. Country. I can't wait to share that with the rest of America. What does that mean? But knew there could be new visions or new approaches that are good and new approaches that are bad new doesn't necessarily mean. Good. What does that concretely mean the newness or the sort of fresh eyes you bring being thirty seven and coming from where you're coming from. Well, for one thing, I think you just look at issues differently yawn thinking a lot about twenty fifty four that's the year when I'll be the current age of the current president. And I think if you're making plans for what it's going to be like, then you have a different sense of urgency around issues like climate change. If you know that your generation is going to be picking up the Bill for reckless tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires you have a sense of urgency around getting our policies, right? When it comes to tax Asian. I know you've run for statewide office once before mistake and state treasurer, and we're feed it in that race why not run for statewide office. Seek some other office it is fairly unusual for someone to go from. Well, it's unprecedented. I think American. There you go from being the mayor of say of town one hundred thousand to present United States a lot of things right now in American politics are unprecedented. And I don't believe in running for an office. So that you can someday run for another office. I ran for mayor of my hometown. Because I looked at what the city needed. I looked at what I brought to the table. And I thought that there was a match that was the same reason. I ran for chair of the DNC I didn't become the chair of the DNC. But I'm glad we got in there. And I'm glad we were able to introduce different ideas into that conversation. And right now when I look at what's going on in our country when I look at what's going on in our party. I think we need a different kind of voice voice. For example. That's comfortable talking about themes like freedom, which we've allowed conservatives to kind of take from our party rather than insisting that there's a lot more than government that can make you free that you're not free. If you can't sue a credit card company that gets caught ripping you off. You're not free. If you're a woman, and your male boss gets to tell you what your health care decisions are going to be based on his politics. We need to be ready to come with the different kind of. Okay glory that will answer that question that hand-wringing Democrats keep asking how are we going to fit our values on a bumper sticker? I think we can do it. I think it's freedom democracy and security, and I'm eager to share that message with the country. You're in Washington for that for your launch today. This is a question. I think is the most important question for every democratic candidate in the field. What is your first big piece of legislation? If you've got elected president with a democratic house and Democratic Senate, well, we've got to make fundamental repairs to our democracy that means legislation to secure access to the vote and a package that could also include some profound structural reforms. The electoral college is at this point indefensible, and there are a lot of other things happening in our political structure that make it so difficult to deal with any of the other issues from climate to healthcare to economic security that we've got to make sure that we have repaired our democracy at the outset should we leave Afghanistan immediately. And if not immediately when should we leave we've got to bring an end to endless war. We are getting to the point. Where people will be sent to Afghantistan very soon who weren't even alive in two thousand one. Now, what you don't do is notify your Pentagon by tweet that you're going to be pulling out. But there's no question that we need to bring it close to that engagement and all of our stop you there because I've heard that for most of my adult life. What what does that mean concrete Louis, why think concrete it means engaging with the parties on the ground making sure there's some hope of stability there? But also recognizing that we can't be the indefinite guarantor of economic development and democracy in the Pac region. It's just not realistic. Obviously, we have a counterterrorism mission that explained how he got there in the first place. Now, it's time to make sure that we're focused here at home. What are you came out in public life as a mayor? What are you learn from that experience? Well, one thing I learned is that people really will look at you based on what you have to offer. I came out at a time when Mike Pence was the governor of my home state of Indiana. I was in the middle of a reelection campaign. But it was a time when I wanted to get in on with my personal life, and I realized that meant coming out, and I wound up getting reelected with eighty percent of the vote. So I think it shows that if you give people a chance to evaluate you on your merits, then people will do right by. But I'm not naive either. I know that there is a struggle for L. Q equality that continues to this day. In fact, there are a lot of parts of my home state where you can still get fired. Just because of who you are people that are a thank you so much for taking to join us night that does it for all in. You can catch us every weeknight at eight o'clock on MSNBC. Don't forget to like us on Facebook. That's Facebook dot com slash all in with Chris Hayes. Christie's from MSNBC every day. I come to the office, and we make television show in every day. I think to myself there's so much more. I want to talk about and so this is our podcast. It's called why is this happening and the whole idea behind it is to get to the root of the things that we see out every day. They're driven by being ideas. Each week. I sit down with a person uniquely suited to explain why this is happening new episodes of Weiss this happening every Tuesday. Listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

president President Trump congress Michael Cohen United States Trump Michael Kohn California house oversight committee Mitch McConnell Nancy Pelosi congress Washington Post Chris Hayes Trump Tower Trump Trump buzzfeed chairman
New York Times: Trump's Former Fixer Michael Cohen Gave Prosecutors New Information About Trump Family Business; Lawyer: R. Kelly Will Turn Himself In Tonight After Being Charged with Sex Abuse Against Four Alleged Victims; "Empire" Producers Cut Jussie S

Anderson Cooper 360

47:38 min | 2 years ago

New York Times: Trump's Former Fixer Michael Cohen Gave Prosecutors New Information About Trump Family Business; Lawyer: R. Kelly Will Turn Himself In Tonight After Being Charged with Sex Abuse Against Four Alleged Victims; "Empire" Producers Cut Jussie S

"Good evening tonight. A major milestone in the Muller investigation. We're waiting tonight for the mother team to submit their sentencing memorandum in the Paul Manafort case now the deadline is midnight, the memo's likely the last major filing in the prosecution Paul Manafort as we've seen at other sentencing memoranda. It may also contain new information in the Russia investigation and serve as another signpost toward the overall investigation is headed. There was no collusion. There was no obstruction. There was no anything. So that's the nice part. There was no phone calls. No, nothing. We have a I wanna ration- why won the race because I was a better candidate than she was and had nothing to do with Russia and everybody knows it's a hoax one of the greatest hoaxes ever perpetrated on this country. So I look forward to seeing the report if it's an honest report, it will say that. If it's not an honest report it won't. I was president earlier today. Wilt tonight's memo provide any clues to that final report. That's one question out of many. And it's not the only breaking news on the subject either. There's new reporting as well tonight on potentially new evidence that Michael Kohn gave federal investigators about the Trump organization Maggie Haberman on that byline. We'll talk to her shortly, but first Manafort memo and CNN Shimon Propaz. So what could we learn from the sentencing memo, again, we are expecting this really any moment now up until midnight. Yeah, we are expecting this Anderson up to up to midnight. It could come at any moment. You know? It's just another Friday here in Washington DC as we await news from the mother team. And really, this is we hope in some ways could put a lot of information together about the Muller investigation. We know from other filings that they considered Paul Manford a central figure he was at the heart. The matters that he was involved in has been at the heart of what the special counsel has been looking at. And specifically what we're looking to see in this memo that hopefully gets filed soon is whether or not they explain anymore, the relationship between Paul Manafort, and this longtime business associate of his constant Kalinic believed to be a Russian agent, whether or not the government explains better with their relations, especially during the campaign, the other things, obviously we're going to learn more about Paul manafort's business activity. A lot has been made about that. And really ultimately do they in any way put together more information about where their investigation stance? It's a milestone for the Muller investigation. This could be the last significant filing that we see from them. The New York district attorney's office also preparing charges against Manafort if he were to get a presidential pardon is. Yeah, that is correct. So they've been working on this case for probably about two years now Anderson it's also related to tax charges and loans that he received from banks Manhattan DA's office. Started looking into this round the same time that Muller came in. And what happened is they had stopped. They basically did not take any kind of heavy activity. They did not do any kind of heavy investigative activity because they did not want to interfere in their Muller investigation. And certainly the other concern from folks in long, I law enforcement in Manhattan DA is that the president could part in Paul Manafort, essentially, letting him free on all of these alleged crimes some of them that he's been convicted on the Manhattan DA's office wants to secure make sure that they can least secure charges that the president would not be able to part in Paul Manafort on. All right, Brokaw, says appreciate it. We'll come back to obviously if events warrants and priorities, the former US attorney for the southern district of New York, he joins us now. So pre because this may be the last big file, and we get from all our before he hands is completed report over to the attorney general bar, how much do you think we could learn from this memo because in the past we have seen a lot of details put into dissenting memos. It's unclear and I hate to speculate about something that is going to be obvious in minutes if not hours. But look there's a reason why separate and apart from, you know, wanted to telegraph major developments in what the investigation is for them to say more detail in this mission. And the reason for that is remember initially Paul Manafort was went to trial was convicted on eight counts in in one case eastern district of Virginia. Then went to decide not to go to trial with respect to the DC case, which is the one we're talking about and decide to cooperate and entered into a cooperation agreement with a special counsel's office and got kind of a nice deal having to plead guilty to only two counts two conspiracy counts, and then they ripped up. They cooperation agreement and they don't have to stand by anymore because they believe Paul Manafort lied, and that was litigated in basically, it was agreed upon that. He lied, and he didn't deserve the benefit of this cooperation agreement. So for that reason, the prosecutors are now very free to talk in much greater detail as they did in the other case about all sorts of things that they think Paul Manafort did and the precursor to this. Was the the occasion of of one of the prosecutors for the special counsel's office declaring an open court how interested they were in a particular meeting between Paul Manafort, and Mr. Kalinic as Samoa's talking about. So they have an incentive to bring before the court in with respect to the particular case how series has conduct was because he breached the cooperation agreement separate from any interests. And putting before the public before the report becomes if it ever does. What happened in the case? Yeah. I mean, it prosecutors supposed to outline all the facts that should be considered at his sentencing hearing Muller others have commented though that in the past been very dept at revealing only the minimum amount of information. He has throughout this investigation. But but has put details into these documents and some have argued that it's a way to get it in front of the public in a way that might not be possible. Depending on how this final report is handled. You believe that he's in. Intentionally putting details in there to kind of get them out into the public sphere. I don't I don't know. It doesn't strike me as the way that mother traditionally operates if you knows he's going to have an opportunity to provide a full report to the attorney general as is required by the guidelines under which he was appointed. Then I don't think so. But it's a tantalizing prospect right to think about that. So I think it's I think it's interesting. I think there had been sort of fascinating tidbits that that you and I discussed before that don't necessarily have to be in the document and find them they're find their way into the document anyway. But I think it's possible to tell. The end of all this how much time do you think Manafort might end up serving? I mean beyond any question about a part in in terms of sentencing. It's very likely he could spend the rest of his life in jail in prison. I mean, the reason for that he's sixty nine years old. He turned seventy in April. The prosecutors a lot of people have described spec to remember has to cases, right? He refused to waive the venue requirement that the government is supposed to meet. So he had a case in Virginia. And a case in the district of Columbia with respect to the other case that we talked about a couple of weeks ago, the sentencing guidelines as determined by the probation department with respect to his report that happens in every case when anybody is is facing sentencing in the federal system said that the guidelines range is nineteen and a half to twenty four and a half years. That's on the one case on this other case that we're talking about tonight he can face additional time. Now, according to the cooperation agreement that they originally entered into the parties agreed the defendant and special counsel's office agreed that some of that conduct was overlapping with respect to the conduct that was overlapping the tax evasion. And those those sorts of things that the sentence in the one case should be concurrent with the sentence and the other case, so the second case wouldn't dramatically increase his exposure. But one of the counts on which he's gonna. Sentenced in the case we're talking about tonight. The case was a conspiracy to obstruct Justice in connection with witness tampering that will likely be on top of whatever he gets in the other case and the other case, although the sentencing guidelines call for nineteen and a half to twenty four and a half year sentence. I don't think that that will happen. I think that that that seems excessive in it's largely driven by the dollar value of the tax evasion that we're talking about in that case. So that happens all the time there's sort of an exorbitant amount of time called for by the sentencing guidelines. I think the likelihood is not going to be anywhere near that. But it will still be substantial. I wouldn't be surprised if it was very high single digits or low double digit sense. This notion of the district attorney in New York, preparing encase smaller gets pardoned by the president. He they can do that. I mean, how would how do they actually go about that? Well, you have to carefully. We have something in the constitution called the double jeopardy clause. An applies. It can apply depending on the circumstance in both directions. If the federal prosecutors, go first versus whether the local prosecutors go I generally speaking, if the federal prosecutors, go first, and it's the same conduct. That's that's an issue depending on the state constitution of the local prosecutor in the New York. It's it's a pretty it's a pretty high bar. They can't go forward. So their arguments, you that could be made depending on what their cases about. I don't know exactly what their cases about. But it likely will at a minimum be about tax evasion. And there was there was a fix to near law some years ago after the Leona Helmsley case who's convicted of tax evasion. Many years ago making it clear that if you commit tax evasion on the federal level they federal taxes and then separately evade state taxes. You don't have a double jeopardy problem. So I would expect that side entered the Menendez office at a minimum looking at that. But without knowing the details, you don't know what the legal obstacles will be there may be some. But the pretty smart over there. And they probably. Have figured out a way not to have those problems. Well, I loved that. You've been able connect Leona Helmsley. Oh, man. I've always wanted to say her name on national television or blast from the past Brar. Thank you very much and she had to dig deeper now with Cancun Nellie, former Virginia Torney general former federal prosecutor, Shan, Wu and former senior FBI CIA official Phil Mudd, Shan. Do you agree that this filing could be sort of the biggest glimpse into where Muller's investigation stand so far? I mean, how revealing based on what he's done in the past. You think Muller would be one of the throw shade on the party? But the theory be more revealing depends on two things Anderson aid, they're trying to give us hints, which I would agree with pre. I don't think they're trying to do that or two now that the plea agreement has been breached by metaphor the prosecutors don't have to limit themselves. And the reason they wouldn't limit themselves to make sure that they put all the bad conduct in front of the judge to make sure he gets a very heavy hit on the sentence. But I don't think they need to do all that right now if we assume that. Moeller team likes to be minimalist. They don't need to pull out a lot to give him a very heavy sentence because simply based on the dollar amount. It's already high and he's also got Virginia case coming up. So I don't know that they necessarily have the incentive to reveal a lot here. Just to really punish him for his breach. Can do you agree with that? And I mean, one big aspect of the case this filing cover as metaphors contact with with, you know, constant Kalinic, which which was talking about who prosecutors are alleging connected to Russian intelligence and Manafort shared polling data way. Right. If there's anything beyond sharing polling data, I might expect it to see it in the explanation of the special counsel to the judge as part of sentencing, but beyond that possibility I would agree with the comments already made that Muller is not going to look at this as an opportunity to reveal more. I think you can expect to see him continue his sort of minimalist approach to revealing information like I said, but the one exception if there's unique significance to that meeting. I would in fact, expect to see it because I would think that the special counsel would want the judge to consider those unique facts as part of the punishment. Phase Phil talk a little bit about sort of the focus on Kalinic if he's in d connected to Russian intelligence as prosecutors have alleged. Do you think that whatever Manafort shared with him would have been passed along to others? Just you know, a lot of Republicans will say polling data. That's not like top secret information. Right. No, I agree with that. I agree. I hate to say, this Anderson, I agree with the two lawyers. Who tonight, it's the first time ever. How? I mean, the lawyers for the defense have a right to see the information that Muller has. So if there's information that's been passed along to Kalinic, I think if it's not extremely sensitive. They should have it. I mean in terms of the conversation, you were having earlier about what lawyers say about the jeopardy that that Paul manafort's. And I'm gonna agree again. I think Muller doesn't have the responsibility. And I don't think he will reveal lot of information Manafort as we discuss his sixty nine years old. Even in limited circumstances. He's got five ten fifteen years. That's a lot of time for somebody that age. So we keep talking about the amount of information that will be revealed in this legal process. I'm not sure that's going to happen. He's already under tremendous jeopardy. He's Oregon face jail time. I'm not sure this'll be interesting as people talk about Anderson. Shit. I mean manafort's legal team they have until Monday to file their own request for Manafort sentence. Excuse me, giving his lies to prosecutors. How much will that really matter? We'll they recommend really matter. I think it will matter a lot. I mean, this is this is truly their last ditch effort here to try and get him out from under a really bad problem. So I would expect them to both play up his age his ill-health and take another shot at claiming that some of the misrepresentations he made were more accidental than not. I mean, they can't really get the judge to change your mind on what she did point out. But they can't paint the overall picture that this was not just one mass of intentional is that some of it perhaps due to age health was just miss collection. So I would look for pretty powerful statement from them because they really need to push this down his only hope of getting this low was that the prosecution with agreed to go down in the guidelines because of his cooperation without that all these left. With the hill Mary for the pardon. And that that may still be out there. I mean, perhaps it can be a message that what he was holding back on what he was lying on was maybe important enough to the Trump people that maybe that's his message deserve pardon. Yeah. Yeah. All the Ken is Jeff Toobin is pointed out apparently Paul Manafort looks terrible walking with a cane. He looks like he's aged considerably. Does not look like he's in good health. I wanna can I want to ask you about what I talked with freed about about Manhattan. Prosecutors the idea that they're preparing a criminal case against Manafort, if President Trump decides to pardon Manafort, pretty talked about if it's state tax evasion than it's not double jeopardy on federal charges. AG agree with that. And is that is that fair for to kind of do an end run like that. Well, first of all, I do agree with the double jeopardy analysis, but having dealt with double jeopardy myself over the years in my legal, capacity. You ask an interesting way Anderson, you asked is it fair? I think most Americans objectively took all the politics out of this. If they and you ask them about sort of state level prosecutor lying in wait. If things don't go particular way at the federal level, or if they do most Americans would be would not be comfortable with that. That is our system. However, it is perfectly legal. It is perfectly constitutional. It's a separate charge separate offense and a separate sovereign. So there's no getting in the way of it. If your President Trump, or if you're Paul Manafort so that is going to be left hanging out there regardless fan. I mean, I guess me saying using the word fair is a little naive because it's when you're talking about the legal system what's fair, and what's legal or you know, often two different. Things. Well, we hope that they are wine most of the time. But I would say the way to understand that double jeopardy argument to me is I have to pay both state and federal taxes. So they're going to sovereigns to me. So I I don't think the majority of people would think that it's unjust. It makes perfect sense. Analytically? Those are two separate charges form. I also don't there's been some reporting that they were laying in wait in the sense, if he doesn't get pardoned. But I think the way that I'm reading that is they did just pause it because they didn't want interfere with molar and now they can resume it. So I think they'll move forward with that. And again, that's just it's a never ending nightmare for the metaphor people on the team. There's just no end to misery here. And I don't even know if they'd be able to cut some kind of good deal because this point they have no leverage on them. Phil. Pending charge in Manhattan, possibly the New York state level of just goes show that even at the president escapes the Muller probe. His legal troubles are far from over. I mean, this is just going to drag on and on boy, we're talking let me now differ from the lawyers. We're talking about a lot of legal issues as somebody who participated in investigations, my sympathy level is near zero. We have a very complicated case with a series of witnesses who decided to lie. One of them has Manafort who lied repeatedly, whether it's federal or state charges if you wanna lie in front of a judge and in front of federal investigators, and then you say, well, you know, I don't really like jail because I don't feel very good, and I have health issues. I understand there's a double jeopardy question. I understand there's questions about whether the public will view this in one way or the other. But as someone who investigated when you lie you're gonna have to pay the price and one of the prices, you're gonna spend some time getting three hots and a cot three meals. At my tax tax payer dollars and a and a room in federal prison. I don't feel that sympathetic. He should've told the truth and of story. Phil, I never once you testifying against. That's going to happen. One day. Anderson your. If it does happen. I am done. Phil. Thank you very much. Can't tonelli. Always. Thank you very much coming up next with Washington and the president preparing for what Michael Cohen might tell congress next week. There's late word on new information that he's already given to federal prosecutors. You'll see the subject matter in question live squarely on the far side one of the president's red lines. We'll talk Maggie Haberman about that. Also tonight breaking news and the are Kelly case details on the sexual abuse charges. He's facing. And when he he's expected to turn himself in. A book dotcom vacation includes a beautiful all inclusive beach resort with all meals, all drinks, including alcohol activities taxes. Tips all included are most popular destination for all inclusive resorts is Mexico's Caribbean coast including Cancun and Riviera the people food history. And of course, the beaches make this a great reason to go, and here's one more right now. Save up to seventy percent off all inclusive. Mexico vacations on book dotcom. Imagine yourself relaxing all day on the beach shore by the pool with unlimited food and drinks all included sound good. Head over to book dot com slash podcast to save up to seventy percent off your next all inclusive vacation that's book dot com slash podcast. Waiting the sentencing memo recommendation from from Robert Muller's team tonight that could happen anytime before midnight. We'll bring you that breaking news. There is other breaking news night ahead of Michael Cohen upcoming testimony before congress. The question is did the president know about it earlier today when he said this? Lawyer client, but you know, he's taken his own chances. Early nonchalant all things considered especially given that this next story crosses his red lines it landed late today in the New York Times. The headline Reids Cohen gave prosecutors new information on the Trump family business. The New York Times as Maggie Haberman shares violon, she is our political analysts and joins us right now. So making talk about your new reporting the Michael Kohn offered up to federal prosecutors in New York do we know how detailed to God. Or what do we know about it as we say in the piece Michael Cohen met recently with prosecutors from the southern district of New York, which is where he pleaded guilty to talk about the Trump organization and information related to insurance claims. We don't have more details than that. We don't know wear. These insurance claims were processed or what they were for specifically. But that is what he talked about. He also was asked questions about Imad zoo, berries, various, the one individual who is mentioned by name in the subpoena. The southern district issued to the presidential inaugural. Committee a couple of weeks ago. There was a more of a business transaction between Cohen and Zuberi than Zuberi head lead on interview with the New York Times there had been some check that he had written to Cohen rendre thousand dollars cone apparently didn't deposit, but Zuberi played it off to us as if they had barely at any interactions. What this all adds up to we don't know. But remember Cohen is going to be testifying three times next week to closed doors one in an open setting. I think they're going to be a number of things he's not allowed to talk about. But it's really just again a reminder that he remains one of the biggest threats to the president not just now going forward. So is very, and that's the name not a lot of people know, but you've reported on him in the past initially. There was a part of what people thirties of been looking into is money page the inaugural committee. You're saying at the same time. He also was paying Michael Cohen. Hundred thousand dollars, which is something he downplayed to you previously saying that he really hadn't had business dealings. Correct. He said that he had he had a couple of interactions with that they talked about doing some real estate venture that didn't end up taking place that appears to have been true. However, he did write this check to Michael Cohen that appears not to have been cashed. But I don't know why you right someone on one hundred thousand dollar check. If you're not planning on going into business with them. And to your point Zuberi is notable because he was a very large donor to the inaugural committee had been a Clinton donor and Obama donor before that he was someone who was looking for entry points into the new administration. He clearly thought that Michael Cohen might be one. He thought the inaugural might be another. He wrote nine hundred thousand dollars and donations to the inaugural committee. We should also point out. This is around the time that Michael Cohen seemed to become a selling himself as as an entry point into the new Trump administration. I mean there companies I think. TNT was one of them and others, which we now know I think gave Michael Cohen money for consultant consultant, there were a lot of companies that I think we're looking to understand that had absolutely no connection to to Trump or his orbit, and we're trying to understand the new White House. And I think that Michael Cohen became somebody who who folks went into business with for that purpose. But I think that again, we don't know the full scope of everything that he talked about what the prosecutors. But but he clearly did not simply stick to what we have heard before which is about hush money payments to women who had claimed fair with President Trump. Michael Cohen worked for the Trump organization for a decade. He was around for an awful lot of discussions and awful lot of transactions that took place and presumably he has stories to tell do, you know, how something like this comes about. I mean, why wasn't this information that Michael Cohen gave to them a while back? I mean, he's been involved with southern district now for. Quite some time. And you know, you talked about also information he might give in the future. Is it not the kind of situation where they just ask them to download all his information that he has in his head. It's a it's a great question. Remember that Michael Cohen did not strike a a cooperation deal with the southern district that would require him to basically sit an answer. Whatever questions they wanted about whatever topic that they wanted in his life any crimes that he may have knowledge about or partaking in himself or being aware of he chose to do that. And that is believed to be part of why he got the pretty large sentence that he got. There is always the possibility that if prosecutors find his information credible and useful that they could recommend a sentence reduction. It obviously remains to be seen if that'll happen. He was supposed to go to jail in two weeks. He is now not supposed to go for another two months because he it's a medical issues. But I think that this has not taken place in the in the typical course of things that we see with the southern district. We're just gonna have to wait and see what it amounts to. It's also because in the past the president has continued to attack Michael Cohen. Mob like terms referring to him as a rat knowing it's interesting though to see how the prisoner gonna react to his testimony because as you say he doesn't have a cooperating agreement if he has he may have more information that he could give to prosecutors depending on how prison time goes for him, depending on how his feelings toward the president as time goes by right? And look it certainly doesn't have to be just thinking I had to the testimony forgetting about what happens in the future with prosecutors to your point he's going to testify next week, the president will be out of the country. Michael Cohen can talk about things that even if they are not legally damaging they could be politically damaging to the president. And that has been one of the things that has confounded a lot of people even supporters of the president who look at how he has behaved toward Cohen and think why would you intentionally attack? Someone the way he has knowing that Cohen may have this wealth of information that he may be able to talk about the president has. Allies have repeatedly question, Michael Coen's credibility, southern district. Even there were prosecutors went after him pretty aggressively. They also said that they found his information on certain issues to be truthful rubber Muller's team issued a stronger memo before Michael Cohen was sentenced saying that he had been helpful to their investigation, and they found truthful. So I think you're going to see all of this play out. Michael Cohen is testifying X week just very briefly, and you may not know the enter to this because it may not be doing is Michael Cohen meeting in advance with staffers on Capitol Hill in advance of his testimony because oftentimes politicians liked to do that. Because it can help them hone their questions. You know, they're not just going on a fishing expedition in front of cameras, they can hone their questions much more. Simply they answer to that. I would assume that there was there's going to be some insight at least among Democrats about what Michael Cohen areas, generally he might be touching on. But it's not clear at all. Well, how much advanced prep there's going to be. It's not clear how much time everybody's going to get. There are a lot of members of this committee. And so I think that there's going to be an awful lot of interest from different people by gave thanks for coming up. An arrest warrant has been issued for our or being R Kelly who's been indicted on ten felony counts of sexual abuse involving for victims including minors. Singers, lawyers says he's going to turn himself in tonight the latest on that. Tired of spending hundreds of dollars for prescription glasses. Our friends at Zanny optical, offering huge variety of high quality stylish frames state of the art optics starting at just six ninety five. You can get multiple frames with this great pricing for less than one pair. Elsewhere start building your eyewear wardrobe from the comfort of your own home, Xeni dot com with the latest trends in eyewear available in hundreds of frame styles and materials there isn't a better way to change it up for every season. Plus, there's any offers prescription sunglasses at incredible prices visits. Any today at Xeni dot com slash CNN. That's Z E N I dot com slash CNN. More breaking news night. R Kelly's lawyer says the singer will turn himself in tonight after an arrest warrant was issued on charges that he sexually abused four victims, including at least three miners executive producer of a documentary series that recently called surviving R Kelly says the singers alleged activities has been an open secret for almost two decades and quotes, and we quote him right now saying it's timeframe to finally pay for the harm. He's caused the black girls lives that he's ruined since Randy Kelly renegade joins us right now. With the latest so mortar we knew about this. I mean, this has been going on obviously for for quite some time, absolutely Anderson. Our Kelly has long had a reputation for trolling underage girls dating as far back as the nineteen nineties. Remember, he reportedly had married the singer Leah when she was just fifteen he was twenty seven neither actually ever admitted to the marriage which was reportedly annulled before she died in a plane crash years later, but over the years the stories of abuse. Use manipulation have just continued to surface girls young as fifteen accusing Kelly of having sex with them, plying them with drugs and alcohol. The first lawsuit was filed in nineteen ninety six by woman who alleged sexual relationship with Kelly, which she said began when she was fifteen that was later reportedly settled in two thousand one another lawsuit from a woman who said Kelly initiated a sexual relationship with her when she was seventeen that case also settled and in two thousand two Kelly was accused of having sex with a fourteen year old girl in a video in which the girl was urinated on Kelly was arrested in that case when he was thirty five and acquitted six years later, one accuser claim that he pregnant her when she was sixteen another city videotaped her without her knowledge Kelly has strongly denied all of these allegations over the years, but as of tonight Anderson, he has been indicted on ten counts of aggravated criminal sexual abuse involving before different victims as you mentioned three were older than thirteen but under seventeen that's according to the state's attorney in Chicago one count refers to. Kelly using force or the threat of force his attorneys have yet to release a statement on all of this. But this comes on the heels of attorney, Michael Evans announcing that he's handed over videotape to the state's attorney's office in Illinois that he says shows Kelly having sex with underage girl CNN was actually able to view that tape and it appears to show Kelly having sex with a girl who refers to her quote fourteen year old genitalia and the man in the video also refers to the age of her genitalia as well. And the girl repeatedly calls the man daddy this new footage. Very disturbing lasts almost forty three minutes. But what is on the video apparently mirror some of the alleged acts for which Kelly was first arrested for back in two thousand two. Videotape in that trial following the two thousand to correct that was a child pornography case that went to trial finally in two thousand eight so it took six years, but in that case he was accused of making a twenty seven minute sex tape with an underage girl, the alleged victim in that case met him when she was just twelve she claimed that he made her do vile things and film them all that video does have similarities, including the urination to the VHS tape that just surfaced recently and was submitted to the Cook County authorities, but in the end the jury in that case decided that the identity of the girl was not conclusive, and he was found not guilty. But now is more women have continued to come forward with stories of abuse. Something really seemed to shift in our Kelly's world Anderson in January the lifetime series, you mentioned surviving R Kelly was released and that included testimony from several women who said they had been abused by the singer. And then after that Kelly was dropped by his record label. So now after all these years, many women are hoping that Justice will finally served Anderson. We'll see turning himself in tonight, Randi. Thanks very much. His now legal analyst and former federal prosecutor in milligram and ten charges maximum of seven years on each count. If convicted how strong does the state's case against our Kelly's two, I think it seems very strong, and we can distinguish it in a minute against that that case that went forward in two thousand and eight with one victim here you've got four separate victims. That is that it is a pattern and you've got three of them are underage, so essentially statutory rape charges. And then you've got one that's force or threat of force. And so here you've got four separate women three of which are between the ages of thirteen and seventeen all of whom are alleged victims in this case. And it really is. When you think about these types of cases and having victims cooperating come forward having that number of victims. It just it makes a huge difference in sex crimes cases. And I would say one thing just about the two thousand and eight case. You know, having investigated and tried cases that are involve sex crimes. I would say this that case was particularly difficult because the victim did not cooperate at the trial. And so it was hard to figure out. It was the government was not able to prove that it was her and our Kelly denied that it was him. I think we're gonna see a really different situation here. You prosecuted sex crimes, the as you said, I mean, the fact that there are multiple victims. Here makes a major difference when when a alleged victim refuses to cooperate refuses testified, then it comes, you know, very. If not impossible to proceed with the case. Absolutely. And even one victim cooperating. It is not nearly as strong as having four. And remember that Kim FOX state's attorney after that documentary that you and Randy were just discussing came out a couple of months ago, Kim, FOX went on national TV and said please come forward if they're victims and Cook County, so she now has four victims who are willing to cooperate with her in a case against our Kelly that makes it such a strong case versus having just a single victim. And it's really will make a difference in the trial, and the prosecution should expect to be a bond hearing tomorrow would would someone facing these charges typically be allowed to post bond and remain free. Yeah. I mean, it really depends. I mean, what you see in a lot of cities as you would see very high bail set if at all said in cases, like this didn't charge here they charged it as aggravated criminal sexual abuse. So it's it's sort of a level to felony again. The. The sentences are really potentially very high between up to seven years on each count. If he's convicted. And so I think it's very likely that the judge will set extraordinarily high bail and R Kelly the real question is is your risk of flight. And so that's what it's going to come down to he willing to surrender his passport. You know, what he is has tore dates or commitments abroad. A judge would not look would not look kindly on that. And again, you know, he's he's been he has showed up to court before he has been he has been president trials. So I think he's a good chance to get high bail. Thank you can't just hit the latest on the Jesse smell at saga. I'll talk with Dr Cornel west about the allege hopes and y may cause people to cast doubts about the next time a racist attack real racist attacks surfaces. We'll be right back. Remember to create an ad like this one visit pure winning dot com slash CNN. The producers behind the FOX show empire have decided to remove jussie smollet character from the final two episodes of the currencies in this. Of course, in the wake of accusations that he paid to men thirty five hundred dollars to stage what he claimed was a racist and anti-gay attack on him in late January and their statement, the producers called the allegations code very disturbing and say they're placing their trust in the legal system as the process plays out. The two men have have been cooperating with authorities. Joining me now is Dr Cornell west professor at Princeton, and or Vert as well Dr west thanks for being with us. First of all, do you believe the bliss the allegation that Justice Millette stage this attack and filed a false report? Or at this point where are you on this? Well, it's a good question. I mean, I like to stay in contact with the evidence and hope he has a fair trial. But looks as if there's evidence that for some reason he came up with this hoax. But we'll we'll have to see, you know, very talented actor actor. And then the sad thing is that, you know, we lose sight of the human beings who are the genuine victims gay brothers black folk Brown red yellow, and and this is true. Even in the R Kelly case it so sad. You know, the children as a precious and priceless black girls that we need to focus on his genius is undeniable as music has enriched my life, but he has to be accountable that kind of activities gangsta activities stugz, actively has to be accountable. The long history. It is still brother Anderson, though, you got Martin Heidegger philosophic genius and a Nazi as repond lyrical genius. And poetry. But a fascist. How do we keep track of the art would still affects us and then the ugly and vicious and malicious activity? That's too often that goes hand in hand with genius. But I think our Kelly needs a fair trial too. I mean, there's no doubt about that. And Robert Kraft, we can go on and on brothers just out of control of all colors. I can tell you that all all we brothers need to be rented in some way accountable, but go right ahead. A spokesman for the the allegations against mullet should not be used as a smokescreen to obscure real racism in the United States. How concerned are you about about that and people using this as kind of a reason to doubt claims of actual eight crimes? No, I think then WC P hits the nail on the head. Does no doubt about it. But think about this by the end and that war crimes, Wall Street crimes, white collar crimes. I wish that we focus as much on those crimes as we do on these particular hoax is seemingly and even the crimes owned St. if we're going to have a rule of law. It's got to be a rule of law for everybody. We've all got to be accountable, but see I come out of the legacy of Jerusalem that says I always look for the criminals at the top. And then I keep track criminals in the middle and below because we need to be concerned with with with criminality, no matter. What was well as the criminality inside of ourselves. But the ones that the top oftentimes all the most dangerous, and they're the ones who very rarely get this kind of focus. This kind of highlight this kind of accountability people are calling for. That's certainly true. The superintendent was interesting for the Chicago police yesterday talked about how as a black man he was left asking why why would anyone especially a an African American man. Use the symbolism of a news to make false accusation. If that is in fact, what have? Yeah. Being also wanna keep in mind that think brother smollet has a drug problem. And so he might not be in full control. He still has to be accountable, but it might not be in full control our Kelly in the same way. Thinking is precious mother JoAnne taking them to church teaching him music. He didn't couldn't really couldn't. Right. But produces this magnificent music Lula, his his first girlfriend who died drowning and his is the wolves are so deep, but the fundamental question always is will you be a wounded herder of Beal wounded healer in if you wanted as a case, it seems to me smollet as a case with our Kelly might be the case with Robert Kraft. I don't know his life. But the question is whatever wounds, you have will you choose to be a healer where you choose to be a herder. And if you're going to be those that produce won't it's the choice, and if you're willing others, especially precious, girls, and blah. Girls. I mean, my God, you know, the value of life in this society is one in which are precious black sisters, especially undefeated, always overlooked, always downplayed. And so when you gauge in that kind of violation oh my God. This is this is sinful capital of can use a Christian category on corporate media tonight is rum. Just immoral brother. It's interesting though, you talk about choice. I mean people. P people sometimes victims of their circumstance. But, but, but there are plenty of people who would have every reason to. You know, be angry to make to to do something wrong. And yet they make a choice of how they wanna live their life. Despite where they you know, what they have experienced as children or what they experienced at some point in their life. They make choices about the path that they wanna walk. And I think it's important that that is a choice. One can make. That's and that is precisely the lesson that are Kelly heard from his magnificent teach Lena mcclen Kenwood high school who was the niece of Thomas Dorsey who wrote precious Lord, Martin Luther King junior favorite song. And what does she tell our Kelly? You have been wounded you grew up, and I'd be wells project. You grew up hate it. You grew up haunted. You grew up in harassed. You can bounce back. But in bouncing back and only create beautiful music, but you got to treat human beings. Right. The women the men the elders the babies, and our Kelly has this genius on the one hand and thuggish proclivity on the other like all of us. And it seemed to allow to his proclivity if the evidence is what it is. And it's going to have to pay you got to reap what you're so. But even he can bounce back in prison, brother. He can bounce back in prison. There's redemption redemption is possible for anybody. Bows back is always a possibility. That's exactly Dr Cornel west. Appreciate your time. Thank you very much want to check in with Christy. What he's working on for Cuomo from the top. The Chris brother Anderson, brother Cornell has unique ability to give one hope and he has an interesting take on our Kelly might take on is the flip side of mean you've been hearing stories like this for a long time about him. And I think part of this prosecution is going to have to be a discussion of why did it take so long for these charges to manifest, and are they going to be evidencing a pattern that has been over a long course of time. So it's gonna be interesting case to watch. We have some new information tonight about what Michael Cohen has been talking about with investigators the president's right? Cohen wasn't just as lawyer. He was very involved in different aspects of his business, and we're going to release new information about what that could mean for Donald Trump, and why this could be a bigger problem for him than the Muller probe. And of course, like you were on Muller watch. We're going to see if this pleading on Manafort comes out. This is the last best chance to find out. What Manafort meant to the actual Russia probe before the final report. So we're on it. All right, seven minutes from now a lot to look for Chris. Thanks very much C in a few minutes. More breaking news on this busy Friday, including Robert Kraft, as as we were just talking about owner of the New England Patriots who we touch on briefly. He is being charged with two counts of soliciting prostitution in Florida. Led the latest on the charges against him. The right sheets can take your sleep and your style to the next level with Boll and branch. The upgrade has never been more forcible. Every set is crafted from one hundred percent organic cotton. They get softer and softer over time. That's why they have thousands of five star reviews and even three US presidents have Boll and branch sheets. Try them for thirty nights. And if you don't love them, send them back for a full refund. Go to bollandbranch dot com today for fifty dollars off your first set of sheets, plus free shipping with promo code CNN to spelled B O L L, andbranch dot com. That's Boll and branch dot com. Promo code CNN too. Robert Kraft who owns the New England Patriots is being charged with two counts of soliciting prostitution this in the wake of a month. Long investigation, south Florida, the charges against craft and others center around a spy Jupiter, Florida or Jason Carroll joins us now with the latest on that. So talk about the details of these charges. What what is let well this all stems from an investigation into allegations of human trafficking, which investigators say took place at the Asia day spa down there in Jupiter, Florida Anderson police charged craft with two counts of solicitation, soliciting another for prostitution. This is a misdemeanor. But they say that got all the evidence they need they say part of that evidence is on videotape. They say the videotape of craft in a room where they say that they characterize videotape as craft taking part in what they characterize as paid acts. They did not elaborate beyond that. But you can you can use your imagination there. I mean, this is an investigation that went on for several months, and again police say they've got all the evidence they need them. This one has Kraft made a statement or anything to say about this. Well, he has he did make statement. He ended up making a statement through his spokesperson who said in part craft denies the allegations. The statement reads we categorically denied that Mr. craft engaged in any legal activity because it is traditional matter. We will not be commenting any further. But once again Anderson police say they've got not only evidence against craft but against twenty five other men who they Adelphi as John's they say they've got tape of craft and those other men as well. All right, Carol Duvall. Thanks very much. Appreciate it wanna give you reminder. Don't miss a full circle. If you haven't seen it. It's daily interactive newscast on Facebook get vote on what stories we cover. It's every day at six twenty five PM eastern time. You get all the details. Watch on Facebook dot com slash interesting. Coop. Her full circle. Hope you check it out. It's fun Jason Carroll. Had the report on crap. No doubt more about that tonight. Also or Kelly and a lot more ahead of Chris's going to be handling things from here on out. Let's go to Chris Cuomo primetime. Hey, Sekou Smith from the hang time podcast. Join me, and my main man John's human every week as we break down, the latest, NBA, news and storylines with. Yes. From around the league, be sure to subscribe to NBA hang time on apple podcasts. Spotify an NBA dot com slash podcast for new episodes every Monday and Thursday this season.

Robert Muller Paul Manafort president Chris brother Anderson R Kelly Michael Cohen special counsel Virginia Washington President Trump CNN Robert Kraft New York Phil Mudd attorney Michael Kohn Russia Leona Helmsley
The President's campaign manager gets another three and a half years in prison

All In with Chris Hayes

47:15 min | 2 years ago

The President's campaign manager gets another three and a half years in prison

"Tonight on all end all have not even given a thought as of this moment, it's not something that right now in my mind, I do feel badly football metaphor, the president's campaign manager gets another three and a half years in prison and a new indictment against him in New York that would thwart any potential pardon. Pardoning metaphor would be seen as a political disaster for the president tonight, the new charges against Paul Manafort and new evidence of pardon dangling behind the scene to cores ruled no evidence of collusion Russian. Dead new suggestion that Trump might have tried to interfere in a case that directly implicates him. Mr. Whittaker did not deny that the president called into Michael Kohn. The Michael Cohen case and personnel decisions in the southern district. Plus the efforts in the Senate to rain in the president on Yemen and the border and look at some of the less covered hearings on Capitol Hill. All in starts right now. Good evening from New York. I'm Chris Hayes. The president's campaign manager who passed polling data to a suspected Russian agent in a Manhattan cigar bar at the height of the presidential race. Just got another three and a half years added to his federal sentence. And then just moments later, another sixteen state charges slapped on top of that Paul Manafort was back in court in Washington DC this morning to be sentenced for the second time in a week. This time for two counts of conspiracy to which he pleaded guilty last fall. Judge Amy Berman Jackson sentence metaphor to another forty three months in prison for those two counts bringing his total sentence to seven and a half years on the judge a metaphor Virginia trial who praised what he called manafort's quote, otherwise blameless life Jackson, rebuke Manafort for the magnitude of his crimes for his lies to investigators in violation of his plea deal and for his apparent lack of remorse saying I'm sorry. I got caught is not an inspiring plea for leniency. She also called out Manafort legal team for repeatedly hammering on the same relevant message. The no collusion refrain that runs through entire defense. Memorandum is unrelated to matters at hand she said, the no collusion mantra is simply a non sequitur the no collusion mantra is also not accurate because the investigation is still ongoing. In fact, the proceedings in judge Jackson's court actually turned up evidence of collusion, including that meeting and August twenty sixteen in the height of the campaign or Manafort cars, some time out to give polling data. Why to Constantine Kalinic his Russian Ukrainian henchman? Nevertheless, even after the judges rebuke metaphors lawyer went outside to make a public statement for an audience of one. Joe jackson. Conceded that there was absolutely no evidence of any Russian collusion in this case. So that thanks to two. No evidence collusion rushes. Large. The hecklers have absolutely right. A downing is lying. He is lying right there in front of the camera. That's not what the judge said. She explicitly said that wasn't what she saying before downing walked out to tell the cameras that lie on camera, but its lawyer hope the repeating the no collusion refrain my help get his client a part in. It was already too late before the words left his mouth because moments earlier right after the judge handed down her sentence in that federal court before the lawyers even got to exit the courthouse and talk the one the Manhattan District Attorney announced that he grand jury had indicted Manafort on sixteen criminal counts related to an alleged mortgage fraud scheme now, those are state charges. So if Manafort is found guilty, the president cannot pardon him, the president claims the idea hasn't even crossed his mind. Harmful have not even given a thought as of this moment. It's not something that right now in my mind, I do feel badly football metaphor. Find Stephen curry as which would seem to be around. I don't know anything about it. I haven't heard that take a look at the latest on these new charges. I'm joined by NBC news investigative reporter Tom winter. Ilya marritz report for WNYC here in New York, who I should note broke the story of Paul metaphors. Puzzling Europe real estate purchases way back in March twenty seventeen that have now become at the center of some of these criminal charges. Tom, I will start with you. Did you know? So we got we got the sentencing. What was the timing? The sentencing happens, and then Sivan's Manhattan DA makes his move. So I went back and looked at this. It was twenty nine minutes between we got the note from one of our courthouse reporters, Gary Grumbach, saying that the judge had announced the sentence for Paul Manafort, and then twenty nine minutes later, we received a notice that this indictment hit been unsealed in in Manhattan District court, so essentially less than a half hour afterwards, it became public that there was an indictment against Paul Manafort. So this happened really really quickly afterwards. The charges here center on there was a note that the Sivan's charges the Manhattan District. Attorney charges investigation starts right after you publish a piece about what? Right. So I and my co reporter Andrea Bernstein had been interested in Pomona for its New York real estate purchases, we realized that he owned apartment forty-three g in Trump Tower. And we started looking around to see what else he had bought and we've found both in this unit in lower Manhattan. But also in. Brooklyn yet, this unusual pattern of buying property through LLC's through shell companies, then transferring it to his name, and then taking out really large loans like larger than the value of the property seemingly. We couldn't make sense of it talked to a lot of experts who said could be money laundering, and just ran with that story and lo and behold, it has taken us to this day, and that I just wanna be clear here because one of the stories appall Manafort is that he was doing everything out in the open for a long time that you didn't have some tip from anyone know pry, you didn't get your hands on private emails. This was just in the public record of what is purchases? Yeah. You have to know how to search the city databases and read those records and read through mortgage records, but it's not rocket science. What was puzzling was when we got there, and it just sort of didn't make sense what you heard from some people was rich people they do things differently from the rest of us. Maybe it's legal that wasn't really satisfying. And it turns out that it turns out what he was trying to do. Eat fallen on hard times in that period and was trying to extract value from these properties that he bought with gotten gains from Ukraine. Well, it goes beyond that not only was he trying to do it. But at the same time he was renting out this particular dress in SoHo which is which is mentioned in today's indictment. He was renting it out. But then realize that somebody was going to call them on it that it was actually a resident so that he wasn't getting any sort of rental income. So he told his son in law. Hey, you guys need to stay there. And by the way, somebody's going to combine appraisers gonna come by make sure to tell them that you live there. And that's what these charged with today. It one of the reasons why we can say this definitively is is that a lot of what is in this the facts that are within today's indictment. The state indictment in Manhattan, he's already mid guilt or pleaded guilty to in his federal cases the cases brought by the special counsel's office. And he faces here of convicted of the top level offense, overarching offense eight and a third to twenty five years in jail in Manhattan. So if the president were to right now tweet in put out a note, say, Paul Manafort. It is part in he should get out of jail. This moment at that moment and arrest warrant, we're told by people that are familiar with this, you know, with the legal process legal experts that just know how this works said at that point the rest warrant would be issued. He would be taken into custody and he would proceed forward with the state trial. Like anybody else would be charged by the Manhattan District attorney's office. And what you're saying that that all I mean, he remember that? We're not Chris he goes in eastern district convicted on a bunch of the counts, not all of them. He then is waiting second trial. He then please. But he cops to the stuff that he's thirsty jury on the first Trump so all of us. So he's in for everything you're saying all of that is at missile. Oh, it's totally admissible. Those are public still he's he's host. He's gonna sign agreement. There is no way. I mean, this is a dream for prosecutive said, oh, this guy's admitted to this entire fact pattern before I even bring him into court in on top of that into the point that you were making before all of this is if you knew city real estate databases, we took it a step further and looked at his. Long Island property in some loans, and this came up at trial involving Chicago banker hoping to get a job in the Trump administration. There was a potential quid pro quo there, I mean, all of this was just out in the open, and you could ask them about it. And there were no good answers that we received as far as why this was the way that it was and they pleaded guilty to all this relates a bit to to the difference between what judge Ellis said about the man, otherwise blameless life. You know, you kind of caught your you ended up here. I don't know why Jackson basically saying look, you're you know, you should have been a scam artist. I mean clearly. It's all it's all laid out right here. I mean, you can read it. It's a good read. It's clear that this guy worked for an autocrat and eastern Europe found a way to bring the money in through shell companies spent lavishly on himself spent so lavishly that by the time the autocrat was deposed in two thousand fourteen and he was out of a job. He didn't really have any money left in any way to access that money. And and what's what's fascinating to me reading. This is this is all unfolding during twenty sixteen unfolding immediately before and immediately after the campaign, some of it during the campaign, the man leading the Republican nominees campaign is a desperate, man. He's a desperate man who as soon as he gets his job. And this is crucially sends an Email to constant Kalinic to say does has seen this old the the Russian oligarch close to the Kremlin. How do we use to get whole? How do we used to get? This is a guy who had debt issues that were to to Russian oligarch that you talk about being he started one of his LLC's. That were involved in one of these property deals. I'm speaking specifically to the Hamptons deal within days after left. The Trump campaign's already an LLC being form. So it's really an amazing fact pattern, and I think today when you look at Sivan's of the Manhattan District Attorney, they had issued some subpoenas in this case, it was really just sitting there for the taking they took the opportunity for it. And there's gonna be appears that there's going to be a trial coming up Tom winter. And Ilya marritz. Thank you both. Thank you for more worse things stand for Paul Manafort after damn Franklin four staffers Alantic published the definitive profile Manafort last year and legal analyst, Jill wine, banks. Watergate prosecutor I'll start with you Jill you're right here. There was a lot of sort of surprise and consternation. I think about the radical downward departure judge Ellis in the sentencing guidelines, this seems much more squarely in the center of the bullseye. Your reaction to judge any vermin Jackson sentenced today. I think that what she did makes a lot more sense. She acted properly in that holding accountable the defendant for what the judge did in the other case, that's not appropriate. She had a sentence him for what he was charged with in her court, and she did that in the sort of within the range of what is normal for that kind of a crime, and she made it partly consecutive and partly concurrent. And so it didn't add as much time as she says, she actually sentenced him to seventy three months, but thirty of it was to be concurrent with his other sentence. So it seemed like a fair deal. But I mean Ilya just mentioned that rich people do things differently. And this certainly does show that rich people get sentenced differently. But it was also just. A really bad day for rich people. The parents of all those kids those rich people that was bad. Yeah. It's been it's been a crazy new cycle on that front. The white collar crime emporium here in the United States of America. Let me let me ask you this Franklin. So we were at the strange situation. Right. This guy now has a bizarre legal strategy throughout. He he seems to have been banking on a pardon as all that kind of last ditch effort, the president never takes off the table. And then boom, he has his charges in in in Manhattan. What what is going through as someone who studied Franken for what do you think is going through his mind right now a couple of things one is is that he figures himself a great strategist. I think he's always thought of the trial and his management at the trial in a strategic sort of way. And so that he interacted with the jury the way that he's interacting with the president himself. And I think he looks at the situation, and he says, you know, rationally my best hope of getting off this thing. Probably at this stage is to play for a pardon. But I think it's also important to remember that he's strategic thinking is muddled because he's a desperate man is Ilia described earlier. I mean, his financial situation is a mess. His whole life has been engaged in this one long downward spiral beginning with the collapse of Ukrainian. President victory Makovich twenty fourteen in the claps his main client, his finances were Ponzi scheme. And so I think that new occasionally see him acting like a desperate man who thinks he's thinking strategically. So he's willing to throw these hail Marys. There's one other interesting biographical fact, which is that his father was arrested for perjury in nineteen eighty one and he was able to get off by waiting out the system, and so I think that in manafort's mind, he has this one example that he's able to draw on which is that his father was involved in all sorts of dodgy things. And he was just able to beat the rap the that is the first time that I guess I think that was that in your profile those in your profile. So I read that annuity some point. But I'd forgotten that that is a sort of remarkable northstar to keep a pun here. Trying to make sense of what would otherwise be kind of nonsensical flailing. What do you think from when you think about the president and this issue of pardons which again? Lurks over all this when the president when Michael Cohen says he talks and code the president today, saying hasn't crossed my mind. But I feel sorry for the guy. What what is that? Do you think that's code to the code started with his first pardon an office? Sheriff Joe are pile for contempt of court. He was saying at that time don't ever cooperate. I have your back. Don't worry. I'll take care of you. You can lie and you can cheat. You can do anything you want. I'll take care of you. That was a clear message. And so was today. Clear message she's dangling pardons again, and he doesn't have the power to give pardons to protect himself. We can say he has unlimited power and power. But not if you take a bribe port now if he does it to protect himself now if there's corrupt intent and I'd say he's demonstrated corrupt intent. Is this the end of the story for Paul Manafort in this is there another chapter here given that there's the Manhattan d a and what might ever come next? Frank would be the end of the story for Paul Manafort who's going to be residing in prison for a spell now. But I think that the Paul Manafort narrative lives on that. If we go back, and we looked at these those unsealed hearing transcripts. It's clear that Andrew Weisman. The Robert Muller prosecutor with zero in on that meeting that you mentioned on August Eck in in the cigar club and the handing over of poll data the discussion of the Ukraine peace plan. And he said that this goes straight to the heart of what we're investigating. And I think it's odd that there was nothing in his mation. Nothing. Amy Berman Jackson's sentencing today that referenced August second that really delved into this narrative, and we should remember that Amy Berman Jackson, actually, probably knows the molar investigation better than anybody outside of molars team. She's read all this redacted material sealed briefings about who is Constantine clinic. She actually knows probably more about this than anyone, you know. That's a great point. I mean, I keep wanting it to be the case that we just get that information like again exculpatory in culpa Torey. I don't care. I just want to know the facts like maybe they were running a con job on their pasta. Just printing stuff off the Gallup website or five thirty eight being like Oleg Nate says we've got a chance like I don't know. But you wanna know what exactly was the nexus of what was happening there? Absolutely. That's why I've been calling for public hearings is that I think the people need to know one way or the other what was going on. But whatever is going on for his lawyer today to have stood outside the courthouse into say, no collusion, which of course, this case had nothing to do with. There was no charge of collusion. There was no charge dealing with Russia. But knowing the facts that we know how could his lawyer do that that is so unethical. I. Can't believe, you know. It's a great point and Frank it was particularly Daesh is because not only does he come out and say, no collusion. He says the that you can say that you can see fine. There was no collusion. You can make. He says the judge ruled there was no collusion. And then when it Tripoli audacious was the judge specifically said, don't you dare say, I ruling there's collusion that is not what I've ruling there is not sufficient evidence. Yeah. It seems like if he's going for the audience of one and just knowing how Trump consumes information, it seems like he's working through the information processing filters that Trump uses to get him that one talking point despite everything else in reality. There's there's a question on judge. Hubert Jackson, also has Roger stone tomorrow. Again, judge Ellis was sort of a strange character throughout the entirety that eastern district Virginia case not just in the sentencing Jackson seems she's been she's been pretty frustrated with Waterston though, she's given him a second chance. I I don't know there's a relationship between day one day two. But if you're Roger stone heading into Morrow having seen this today. What's going through your Roger stone is not thinking like you. And I would think so it's hard to predict what he would do, but she has been very well balanced in how she's handled everything about this case. And you're right about judge Ellis who really demeaned the prosecution to out the trial. He attacked the prosecutors. He attacked there. Witnesses. He said to gates how could you say that he knows everything he man afford. If he knew everything he would know how much money you had stolen from him. And he said that in front of the jury so talk about trying to influence the jury truly bizarre Franklin for Jill banks. Great to have you. Both next did the president attempt to interfere in the Michael Kohn investigation tonight developments on what former acting attorney general said behind closed doors in two minutes. President Trump's former campaign chairman was learning that he faces sixteen additional felony charges that are unpardonable by the president the president's former acting attorney general was telling congressional investigators about conversations he had regarding the southern district of New York's Michael Cohen case speaking after closed-door meeting with Matthew Whitaker House Judiciary chairman Jerry Nadler revealed. What else he learned from the nation's former top law enforcement official? I think there are three main takeaways that we take away from today. One unlike in the hearing room. Mr. Whittaker did not deny the president called into discuss. Michael Cohen, the Michael Cohen case and personnel decisions in the southern district to while. He was acting attorney general Mr. Whittaker was directly involved in time stations about whether to fire one or more US attorneys. Three. While he was attorney general during general, Mr. Whittaker was involved in conversations about the scope of the southern district of New York, US attorney Berman's recusals, and whether the southern district went too far in pursuing the campaign finance case in which the president was listed as individual number one MSNBC contributor, Chuck Rosenberg is a former US attorney for the eastern district Virginia. And the southern district of Texas also service chief staff at the FBI director, James Komi, Chuck I should note. This was a closed meeting. I think there are about eight people in the room one of the Republicans in their has has said that now there's mischaracterizing what happened there. So I just want to say that there are other people in the room and say differently. That said what the chair said also syncs up with some public reporting. What is your reaction to hearing that? There's several things. So let's assume that Nadler had it right or pretty close to right? The notion that the president could get the acting attorney general Matt Whitaker to get the US attorney in the southern district of New York to unrequited himself strikes me Chris's a little bit crazy. I understand what the prefix unknowns. I've never seen it in front of the word recused when you were cues yourself, it's because you have a conflict or the appearance of a conflict, those things don't just go away. So you don't just unrequir- us. I can imagine a benign version of the conversation. But I could also imagine an affair version of that conversation. And that second thing than the ferry's version to me would be deeply troubling. Yeah. We've had some reporting that there have been some conversations. And then Matthew Whitaker appeared. To deny that under oath, and I wanna play his testimony because it just into some tension between what he said in front of under oath, and what both the public reporting has indicated. And what he apparently said today, take a listen. At no time has the White House. Ask for nor have I provided any promises or commitments concerning the special counsel's investigation or any other investigation since becoming acting attorney general I have run the department of Justice with fidelity to the law and to the constitution. Did you communicate to the president and senior White House visors about investigations from this other district New York related to Trump entities? Again. I was very explicit in my opening statement as to that not only about my communications regarding special counsel's office. And I said other investigations in the southern district of New York would be included in other investigations. Now, check your lawyer and a very good one. Obviously, I can't help. But notice he says that the White House has done asked any promises or commitments, which is pretty specific language, and those are exactly the words that I had keyed in on Chris. And then he refers. Nadler back or I'm sorry refers congress back to his opening statements, and it seems to hinge on promises or commitments. Now, maybe it's too cute by half. It seems like their work under sations between the president and Whitaker not just about recusals. But also about the scope of the investigation, and whether it had gone too, far what we need at some point is a public hearing or public position of that Whittaker to know precisely what he was asked to do. And precisely what he did. That's the key. I don't doubt Mr. Nadler. It's just hard to hear it secondhand. And to really understand the conversations that took place between the president and his acting attorney general let me try to let me try to offer. A version of this and see what you think of it. Let's say the president did call over. And he says, you know, what's going on down? The southern district of Michael Cohen Cason fray, they're doing, you know, might be a little far afield what they should do. Sure that the Berman and the the bosses they're on top of things I wanna make sure everything squared away down there like how proper to improper would a conversation from the president about investigation into the he's been named in be. So that's sort of the benign version, Chris met. I really liked this Berman guy. I trust him. And I'm just wondering why he recused. And to the extent you can help me understand that. I'd sure preciado it to the nefarious version, which is a need Berman back in place to protect me and to kill this case. And if you're talking about the second conversation than fairies version, deeply troubling. But one thing Chris the men and women of the southern district of New York the career prosecutors are not going to bend to the will of a corrupt president that ain't going to happen. And so either. If that was the president's intent, and of course, obstruction turns on intent he's not going to get what he wants. He's not gonna get the career folks in the southern district of New York to drop cases because he has said pretty, please. All right. Chuck Rosenberg has always illuminating. Thank you, very much, sir. Yes, sir. Still coned turns over emails from just after his FBI raid that short do seem like Trump world was dangling entertaining or maybe being deviled to apartment the presence. Former attorney general emails next. In the ongoing saga, whether President Trump ever dangled apart before Michael Kohn federal prosecutors from United Sates attorney's office in Manhattan have now requested emails that appear to show a back channel of communication between Michael cone and team Trump about a possible pardon. According to reports cone is giving congress emails from just after the FBI's rate of his home in office in those emails are exchanges be cone and a lawyer acting as a conduit to team Trump. The attorney is Robert Castillo who never actually represented Michael cone and he emailed him. After speaking to Trump layer Rudy Giuliani. Right. So stella's between Giuliani and Kony's the go between one Email Cording to your times. And with message quote, sleep. Well tonight, you have friends in high places in another Email Castillo reportedly wrote to cone quote Rudy was thrilled. And said this could not be a better situation for the president where you Mr. Julianne Guiliani. He added said thank you for opening this back channel of communication. Stella himself, not the emails but claimed a different context saying cone, raise the talk of a possible pardon himself Guiliani says the emails weren't about apart. Now, according to the times federal prosecutors requested the emails and documents from Mr. Kotel Castillo, according to a copy the request, which cited investigation to possible violations of federal criminal law. Tell Mick sent to this going mess. Joined now by federal prosecutor Littman, contributing columnist the Washington Post and tasha Bertrand staff writer at the Atlantic covering national security in the Russia investigation and Michelle Goldberg up at college times at an MSNBC political analysts untouchable start with you. So we learned something from this to me, which is the story I emerge. I thought with this person representing himself as a go between just a scammer. Was he actually the go between? Now, we have confirmed. Like that's part of the story was correct. There was this guy who was an intermediary between Giuliani and Michael cope. Right. And it kind of shows that they were trying to keep all of these individual threads at arm's length not only from Giuliani. But also from the president that's kind of how Trump has always operated. He's kind of gotten everyone else to do the work for him. But I think it's really important not to lose sight of the main fact here, which is that right after Michael Cohen's office and home was raided by the FBI, this massive investigation was opened. They were having conversations about a potential part in the the president whether directly or through his subordinates or whoever was essentially telling Michael Cohen, you're on our team don't cooperate, and I will have friends places. I will I will fix this for you. And that is extremely significant because that could be criminal, right? That's part of what congress and federal prosecutors apparently now in the southern district of New York are investigating now. Whether or not the president can actually be indicted as a whole nother question. But the fact that he has been caught up in this. And the Michael Cohen case also raises questions about who else he has potentially dangled pardons for Paul Manafort for examples is a really a really good case study of this. I mean, why have his lawyers taken such great risks with his case throughout this entire process? If they did not think that the president was going to help out especially keeping him in that cooperation deal, even while he was cooperating with Muller. I mean, it doesn't make any sense unless you go to the obvious explanation, which is that he was expecting a pardon Perry will Jones outta me is written communication with the litter. Calling saying thank you for this channel, which just sounds sketchy to put in writing. It does. I don't know what you guys are being suspicious about Giuliani. Explain it was all reference to the Garth Brooks song friends in low places. Fellow said that I think that he was just trying to keep a suicidal Michael coma this China. Just just worried about look it really is. In fact, the arm's length part is circumstantial evidence of the crime. And just explain what's so dodgy about this danger Ling idea, look, the president has this plenary power to provide pardons. But there is a check it's a political check where you know, think of the March rich pardoned by President Clinton people can protest. This isn't a fairy because you say it on the q t no one ever knows. And the ideas that would pro quo down the line, and it is a potential miscarriage obstruction of Justice. If that's what's in his mind. One other point doesn't matter. How many lawyers are in the link it wouldn't be privileged because the crime fraud exception would kick in this would be all part of a conspiracy to obstruct and costal and Giuliani really are going to have to answer in depositions about the exact nature. Of the communicate a question I had which is will they be able to cover this privilege. This is also from the times Michelle during the one of the conversations last April, Mr. Casello set in an interview key Cohen asked whether Trump might put a pardon on the table for Mr. Coenen. It's one of the things always been unclear like who's who's making the offer. I even though they're clearly sniffing each other out. And I feel like I mean, I think there's been a lot of attention to this question. But it actually shouldn't matter that much because even if Michael Cohen had made the first move responding by dangling outs. Late reign of me. That's the bar with these people just keeps getting lower and lower. So I think maybe Michael Cohen will maybe Rudy Giuliani will be the second one of the front. The lawyers to be indicted, right because we have a lot of discussion about whether or not the president can be indicted. We have no there's no question that Rudy Giuliani can be indicted tasha. There's also strikes me in this whole conversation about pardons that for the president even the perspective inducement of the part is so much more powerful than the retroactive granting. They're up like there's no point at this point with matter for like, sorry, buddy. This guy's Donald Trump screwed over so many other counterparties, but the idea that in the future, you might get it is an important thing for him to keep in the minds of everyone. Right. Of course because he doesn't want them flipping. I mean, it's very basic. It's like bribery no-one. Right. I mean, it's just very obvious. What the intention was. And what the intention remains with these people by keeping the part on the table. That is something that has been refrained throughout this entire ordeal. Is that we're not we're not discussing this now, but we're not taking it off the table. That's nothing short of a winking nod. Right. I mean to all of these people who. Those really big legal liabilities to the president. It's a signal saying look behave, and I can help you out in the future. And I think for Paul Manafort, it might be a little bit too late because going into twenty twenty the president might not want. This huge backlash that comes with pardoning Manafort who was convicted for very very serious tax and financial crimes that didn't have anything directly to do with the Russian investigation that he's going to go to jail with a lot of secrets about the Russia. Pro Muller will probably reveal a lot of those secrets in the final report or so we're hoping, but I really can't see Trump getting any immediate. Benefit from gardening metaphor. And that is what he's thinking about. He's thinking about how these people can help him. And in return what he can give them and the best thing. He can give them is lessening their jailtime. Hurry. There's also it's so striking the way these people operate like wannabe mobsters. You know, you've got friends in high places sleep tight. And then, and then this sort of Stu like how stupid that they think we are that you know, I was quoting Garth Brooks. Like it just a ticket back. It's a weird way for people to communicate. It's a weird way for people to operate. Not the least of which for the president and his lawyer operate. No kidding. I mean, people often draw the analogy to the mob and goodfellas, and but I've been struck. It's more like Mary to the mob. These are these are a bunch of real sort of nickel and diming kind of shysters would be the formal legal word, and yeah, it really is at times kind of burlesque there's there's no dignity and presidential crime anymore. It seems. I was thinking about like a mobster coming before. And being like your honor? You know, my client here when he said sleep with the fishes he meant that the dead man in the hotel room next to the aquarium, we understand the code. They gave everyone understands. And I think that's also what we look for smoking gun. It's like they everybody's been saying everything right in front of our faces the whole way that's their sort of perverse alibi. Right. What is the early not hiding it? So if you're listening manafort's good guy, right until it sort of which is kind of what's maddening about it. Right at that. Yes. It's all out in the open, which means that if you can see it, you kind of can't believe that everyone's Harrison on fire about it. And yet they're kind of using the fact allowed in the open to be like Trump always does what? So what I wanted to with with Trump Tower. Yeah. But here's a really quick point in order to do it. You got to go to a cost Stelco Giuliani window direct. You're gonna go to somebody who really has something to lose and is going to pressure on him to tell the truth and won't want to do it. That's that's the only way to do this ham handed thing. And that's going to be the first stop for. Prosecutors are congressional investigators point touch Bertrand. Michelle Goldberg, thank you all Sylhet y took the Trump administration so long to ground the Boeing planes connected to two deadly crashes bus, meet some of the freshman congressman making a lot of noise thing. One thing to next. Freshman democratic congresswoman from California. Katie porter who has been quite literally schooling witnesses from her perch on the House Financial Services committee last week Puerto read from textbook that she herself wrote while questioning slice educating Donald Trump's handpicked CFP director about predatory lenders two weeks ago. She grilled the CEO of credit reporting agency equifax, which is facing a class action lawsuit for exposing the personal data of tens of millions of Americans. My question for you is whether you would be willing to share today, your social security your birth date and your address at this public hearing. I would be a bit uncomfortable doing that congresswoman. Yeah. No kidding. So exposing personal data is bad. Why are here lawyers arguing in federal court that there was no injury. And no harm created by your data breach. Congresswoman, I it's really hard for me to comment on what are dealing isn't that you do employees those layers, and you you do rate at your direction just yesterday came face to face with the CEO. Wells Fargo was repeatedly insisted he is working to restore customers trust at company owned a millions of fraudulent accounts. Then why Mr. Sloane if you don't mind my asking, Mr. Sloane are your lawyers in federal court arguing that those exact statements that I read are quote, heretic Matic examples of non actionable corporate puffery on which no reasonable investor could rely. Yikes. Katie Puerto is very good at her job. But has she considered props? And that's two in sixty seconds. Democratic congressman Joe Cunningham wanted to make a point about the environmental impact of seismic air gun blasting. So he did what? Well, we all dream of doing a congressional hearing. Was that disruptive straw over? So it was irritating. But I don't I didn't find it particularly disruptive really irritating. Not disruptive. The Trump administration allows energy companies to blast seismic air guns underwater, while searching for oil and gas deposits and Trump official Chris Oliver whose job description, literally includes protection of marine mammals played down the impact of that practice on lives and the lives of mammals, including Wales which depend on sound for hunting and communication. So Cunningham made clear just how absurd that stance was. Was that disruptive straw over? So it was irritating. But I don't I didn't find it particularly disruptive. How much louder do you think seismic airgun blasting sounds than this airborne? You just heard I honestly don't know take a guess. We'll tell you sixteen thousand times louder than what you just heard here. He see how that would be impactful on marine species mammals. We're going to be doing an emergency order of prohibition to ground all flights of the seven thirty seven. Max eight and seven thirty seven max nine and played associated with that line after several days in which the US was increasingly isolated and allowing Boeing seven thirty seven max aircraft fly the Trump administration today finally ceded to growing international consensus and ordered the planes grounded. This comes after two deadly crashes and as reported yesterday complaints the federal government from pilots who found the plane's nose suddenly tipping down dangerously after engaging the autopilot. So why was the US international laggard on this issue of air safety when it has for so long been an international leader, it's hard to say, but we do know is blowing gave the president's inaugural committee hundred but one million dollars in inaugural committee now under investigation from the southern district of New York, the company CEOs is also traveled to the president's private for profit club schmooze a place. That's basically, a Petri dish of improper influence and. We know the company CEO spoke with the president on the phone yesterday. And so when it comes to the decision making process to keep the planes in the air and now to ground them. Life death matters to be sure it would be nice to have faith. The decision was made on the merits. Part of what so insidious toxic about the Ubis corruption of this ministrations that of course, we can have no such faith. We do not know Donald Trump's decisions are made because of improper influence or expert recommendation bore some cockamamie idea implanted his brain while kibitzing the mar-a-lago omelet bar. Members of congress generally welcomed the presence around the plane. So Senator Richard Blumenthal tweeted impart, quote this step is, right, but unacceptably overdue. Our nation should be leading not lagging in air safety. Senator Richard Blumenthal. Democrat from Connecticut joins me. Now. Why was this? You're quite outspoken vocal about this. Why was this such a point of focus for you? It's a point focus because it is part of the dysfunctional Washington. So impacted by special interests and influence, it's part of the Trump ammo MOS modus operandi, which reacts to potentially those kinds of special interests, all the facts that you just described are highly suspect and add to it. The fact that this decision was apparently based on facts still undisclosed to the American people because they say they have new evidence while the rest of the world grounded these airplanes based on evidence well known before now, and among the most chilling of those facts and reach out did such dramatic job. Last night of describing them are the pilots reports today, I asked the NASA head Jim Bryden seeing to provide all of those. Reports which are in the possession of NASA to me, and he agreed to do. So because the indications far back as November of this problem are disconcerting to say the least. There's there's a question about what this does the American air system and the generals oversight of the Trump administration on their safety. There's there's been a dramatic drop in force -ment fines for major US airlines in the last two years. Eight percent drop, which is really pretty remarkable are you confident in an FAA with full acting positions and this administration over overseeing airline safety. This moment, I am entirely on confident in the FAA, which is why I've called for hearings before congress bringing the FAA to testify, but also Boeing executives and secretary Chao who has supervisory authority over the FAA at the end of the day. It was secretary Chao recommending to President Trump that they ground these airplanes, but everyone involved in designing constructing approving for flight and. Continuing flight has really some accountability to provide. And we need to know who knew what when and why they failed at so have you hear senators to business pieces of Senate business? I'd like to talk to you about that are in motion today. Something historic happened in the United States Senate. The Senate voted to pass a world powers resolution ordering the US to end its involvement in the Saudi war in Yemen US has been providing all kinds of support to that war refueling planes, particularly as well as as support and training for Saudi fighters. This was a big deal. What does it mean? Now. It means first of all congresses taking back some of its War Powers power, which is to the good. It means practically speaking that. There should be an end to the equipment and training of Saudi war-crimes. Very simply the Saudi bombing of civilians, many of them children and the Saudi influence with humanity aid is causing famine in that country and death and disease. And it means that the United States will no longer be complicit in those work. Now still has to be approved by the house, but this is a profoundly important first step the other big question before your body is is the vote that's happening tomorrow. This is on the president's declaration national -mergency, a one page resolution ending said national emergency was pass out of the house. It now comes to the Senate. It looks like the note the gays, right? The people who want to end the emergency who. Going to vote for the resolution had the votes from Republicans. There's been tremendous pressure put on them by the White House and Mike Pence has been over there. What is your sense of where things stand right now? Despite the really overwhelming squeeze exerted by the White House, very transparently. So the vote seem to be holding firm among that handful of Republicans who are necessary to overturn this emergency declaration member. Never before not history never has a president. Clearly usurped Congress's powers. This measure should be bipartisan the power to spend and appropriate funds is in the constitution. Given only to congress never before has the president spent money after congress has refused to give them the authority of new so not just neglected but refused, and so this kind of haute, I think is a challenge to the institution. And my Republican colleagues are deeply worrying more than may vote. The right way tomorrow about the precedent. That is set here for the president seizing power from the congress. And eventually, I believe the courts will overturn it, regardless of what the congress does tomorrow seems likely there's been some talk about negotiating some kind of one time mulligan where this emergency stands. But then they put up some vote some some show vote, which essentially a show vote to change emergency. Going forward just to get people. Yes. But it sounds like you think they're confident the Republican votes are holding. We will see I think tomorrow whether that bears out, I'm not sure where I would place my bet center Blumenthal. Thank you so much for taking the time for shit. Thank you. All right. We have more details on a very exciting event. That's coming up on all in in just five days. I will be hosting MSNBC's. I town hall of the election season where we talking with twenty twenty hopeful cures to Jill LeBron we're going to meet in the all important state of Michigan where she'll make her case to be the democratic nominee for president. And here's the thing. You can be part of this special event. We are taping in Auburn Hills. Michigan on Monday afternoon. There are full details out a register for the town hall on our website, all in dot MSNBC dot com. It's going to be a great time. Learn a lot I love to meet you and see you so please, please. Please come join us that does it for all in. You can catch us every weeknight at eight o'clock on MSNBC. Don't forget to like us on Facebook. That's Facebook dot. Com slash all in with Chris. Start a business fighting zombies or selling wine for cats or making fake testicles for dogs or cuddling with strangers for sixty bucks an hour. I'm Jane wells. Listen to these odd rags to weird richest stories on my CNBC podcast. Strange success. Subscribe today.

president President Trump Paul Manafort Manhattan Michael Cohen Amy Berman Jackson United States Manhattan Ellis Chris Trump Manhattan District Michael Kohn congress Attorney Mr. Whittaker MSNBC Virginia Russia Europe
"Behind Closed Doors"

The Investigation

00:00 sec | 2 years ago

"Behind Closed Doors"

"Sir. Welcome to the second episode of the investigation. I'm cure Phillips and thank you for being here with us. Once again, we are going to continue to take you behind the scenes with our ABC news task force as we continue to uncover and dive into all the details of the molar investigation. Of course here with me once again, we're partners in crime head of the task force. Chris flato? It was a great I show we had last week with John Dowd who kind of told all and we got a lot of headlines all over the country, and we're going to have Democrats. We're gonna have Republicans which kind of leads us though to our second guest who, you know, both of us have known for a long time. And when I know him he was the Clinton hatchet man, who now is is working for Michael Cohen, former White House special counsel, and as you mentioned legal adviser to Michael Cohen. He's the founder of the strategic communications firm Trident DM de Lanny Davis. I only can say Chris last. Oh that if I was a hatchet, man. I never used a hatchet against him. Didn't you save his tempted though, that's that's a story. I heard that saved his job came to his defense when he deserved to be defended handed any, you know, though, though, Lanny I did say in the other show, I said the difference of you know, covering twenty years ago when we. During the Clinton administration. And now, even though the story is on steroids. I think I think the Trump story is significantly bigger. I thought I thought Clinton was a big story of big story of my lifetime. This is I think even bigger story. But the difference was Clinton had people do his work people like you, President Clinton didn't do it himself. Donald Trump does it himself. And that kind of makes this big difference. Don't you agree or they say a lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client say that about a president and a lot of his mistakes using his Twitter account much of other things he does reflects what I think is basically a poor judgment history. That Michael Kohn is told me after ten years of working for him. It would be kind to say that he has poor judgment. He has no judgment in the years that Michael worked for him. It's quite amazing. Some of his personal experiences that he's described to me. I'm just curious. You went right to Michael Cohen. Okay. You you're like. King liberal, Mr. democrat. And you're representing Michael Cohen explained to me why. Well, will I could use the usual reason that attorneys represent people that aren't always good people. That is what we do as a profession. But that isn't the reason I decided to work for Michael Cohen. It took a while for him to persuade me that he had made a genuine turn in his life after ten years of shoveling you-know-what behind Donald Trump in a amoral if not immoral environment with a man without a moral, compass, I did not want to represent someone who had defended him all these years on all of those dirty deeds. But that expression, dirty deeds is the expression that Michael us with me when he said, I am now frightened for my family and my country. It's one thing to do this over a ten year time period that I'm ashamed of because he was in the private sector. But now he's president. And he scares. Me. Would you help me get the truth out? And it took me a while to be convinced that he was sincere. And once I was convinced I realized I was not just doing it to help a client Michael Cohen. It's hard for me to imagine. Michael Cohen being frightened. I mean, I'll be really blunt here. I've known him for a really long time. He's a hard ass. And he's mean, and he's tough. And he yes, he threatened me more than you threaten me. I don't blame anyone for being skeptical because I've had many reporters with bed experiences. When Michael Cohen was yelling at them on behalf of Donald Trump. I had bad experiences. Seeing Michael Cohen on television and feeling that way, he's yelled at me, y'all de Blasio. I am convinced took me several weeks of many many, many hours of conversations to be convinced that he is a man transformed. He's a different Michael Kohn than you. Remember, he's got the burden of proof to prove that when you say he fears the president. I mean is he afraid the president's going to have him taken out or something? I mean, you may. You make it sound like this is some sort of fatal threat. First of all there is something bad to say about his tweets in tacking, Michael cone. So let's get to that. And then I'll tell you about my word fear 'cause I fear Donald Trump because he has a finger this close to the button, and he is sold us out as far as I'm concerned Helsinki is dispositive proof that he sold us out to Putin and the Russians he's compromised us with our allies his judgment is so poor that I don't know what he's going to do when he goes to North Korea. He is literally a man without judgment, and he's presently United States. He scares the unit out of me. And so it does he scare Michael cone. But beyond that, here's a president. I'd states the top official in law enforcement and everything else in the United States using Twitter to call a person who has cooperating with prosecutors Iraq, the word rat has a meaning in prison. What is it? Snitch? It would ease. Your life is in danger. It means that the president United States on Twitter. Call somebody going to prison for cooperating with the government rat that is so reckless and so dangerous that in and of itself isn't abuse of power that could lead to his ouster much less having Giuliani. His lawyer call out his father in law and his wife and says that his father in law might be connected on national television to organize crime Michael Cohen and President Trump have rolled in the same circles. Lanny. So I absolutely saw Michael Cohen that way for many many years in it was quite negative and got dirty and shoveled you-know-what behind Trump all the time until I believe in. Now, I believe him that he underwent transformation and decided to tell the truth. And when the issue of pardon came up, he has asked me, and I'll repeat here. He wouldn't take a pardon. If. Trump pleaded with him to take why? Because it would be dirty. Why cause the man giving the pardon is dirty? So I believe is transformation when he stood up and pled guilty. He said to the court I did deeds. I'm ashamed of myself. I wanna make up for it by telling the truth, and I'm going to prison to do think. The the prosecutors been southern district to York too harsh on Michael Cohen. So look I'm a good enough lawyer with a client that I'm not criticizing even a little bit. The prosecutors in New York Michael is now cooperating the best he can to persuade them that he's not as bad as they thought he was, but I can't say this with respect for the prosecutors number one give a give you one fact of a crime that he pled to and that he's serving time he took out a loan as part of the hush money that Donald Trump directed him to pay that's in on the public record that the. Prosecutors put into the sentencing memo Donald Trump directed him to pay hush money to stormy Daniels. So the story wouldn't come out right after the access Hollywood right before the election because he feared the political consequences that's called a crime. And when he did that he used his own home equity line for five hundred thousand dollars as money to pay stormy Daniels. Why didn't use Trump money or Trump organization money because they were covering it up. They didn't want traceable. So he borrowed out of his own equity line yet. He was charged with making a false statement. We're not disputing that somewhere on the financial application yet that has been charged as a crime, and the fact that it was on a crime that a lot of people. Well, let's just say that it's not a process normally people in prosecute for goodness sakes. The Bank is the last one that would complain if they're covered ten to one but the judgment by the prosecutors, which we do not question. Was that it was a crime to have a false statement elsewhere on the financial application and the time that he is serving. He is serving and he has cooperated, and he has told the prosecutors, I'll try to give you more information. Would he do that for Donald Trump? Well, first of all when he finally guilty wasn't for Donald Trump. That's after he decided to tell the truth about why did he spent ten years as the shovel brigade doing all these what he destroys a home equity loan? Why would this? He did it for Donald Trump because he was doing what he did for Donald Trump all through the years. He was the shovel UCLA circus, and you see what people behind the elephants do. But that's what he was doing. Would he do that? Why would he do that for Trump Trump? Trump asked him not only to break the law, but to cover it up by coming from his own personal money. And then get we paid by the company as if it was a legal fee, which eat what would it wasn't which everybody knew it wasn't. He did it because in those days before he's I regard to be. Transformed. Michael Cohen, whatever Mr. Trump wanted. I'm here to clean up after do. You think I'm in Muller reports gonna come out maybe in a couple of weeks or few weeks and campaign finance campaign. Finance violation is not going to be part of the mullahs report. But do you think it's an impeachable offense? No doubt is a felony. But you are not all felonies impeachable. Right. I don't know what felony isn't a impeachable. But if you're corrupting in American election, which is what hush money right before the election is that your hushing up something that could affect the election seventy thousand votes in three skates at a fifteen million elected Donald Trump over Hillary Clinton who have to Ed one by more than three million popular votes with those seventy thousand votes in Pennsylvania. Michigan and Wisconsin have been changed at fifteen million. Do the math if they had known about the stormy Daniels. Hush money payment. Roy does Michael Cohen have anything that could lead to criminal charges. Does he have anything on Mr. Trump? Yes, that could lead to criminal charges. So I can't answer that question except to say evasively that he went to work with in cooperate with Mr. Muller for seven days and seventy hours, and Mr. Muller's words were he gave us evidence that go to the core? Issues of our investigation, certainly his evidence on Mr. Trump directing him to pay hush money was evidence of felony that Mr. Trump is guilty of how much don't we know? We know kind of what Michael Cohen said in the public record. But how much don't we know? Well, we don't know a lot. If it seventy hours seven days, we've Mr. Muller, we know nothing about that other than what Mr. Muller said, which is that it was relevant important or significant and went to the core issues of the investigation. That's always. So does he have anything that could bring down this president? I just can't answer that or even guests. I know that if he ever has a chance to testify publicly he won't be able to address any of the issues that Mr. Muller investigating and a lot of people will be disappointed by that. But what he will talk about is exactly what we were talking about earlier is what did you do for Mr. Trump during those ten years and why and what caused you to change until the truth and refuse to accept department and become transformed. He needs to tell his personal story to the American people. And when he does what we all think, we know about Donald Trump and all the negative reactions that many of us have to Donald Trump. You're going to hear impersonal frontline experiences of memories and incidents, and conduct and comments that Donald Trump said over that ten year time period behind closed door that to me when I first heard Michael tell me all this even as much as I knew about Trump that was negative was chilling. Do you think the Trump people have played this? Smartly in the sense of that there's a feeling that we already know what's going to come as a strategic. There's a lot of people like John Carl has reported on the air that he thinks this report may be anti-climatic. And he's saying that only because we know a lot, and we're now accepting things as par for the course of this presidency. Do you know what I'm saying? Well, I think there is a preemptive strategy that at times I've seen really any CHAI and as usual messed it up by getting bad news, add himself in order to numb everyone. And I've seen a little of that command of the Trump wide has I think the media nowadays kind of sets up the bar that's impossible the meat. And if there isn't a smoking gun that means Trump wins or they are high fiving at the White House because his popularity went up to forty four percent from thirty seven percent. The bump that happens after an inaugural. Nation and the government shutdown. If I ever had the experience in the Clinton White has of high fiving that we were at forty percent. This man has sixty percent of the country who is afraid of him and considered him as reckless as I do. So whatever happens in report, I'm sure the Trump White House, and I think the media will do the same thing. Oh, well, it wasn't a smoking gun and it's victory. John Dowd said on our premier podcast that he believes that that won't be made public that according to the laws the guidelines the hill just give it to Bill bar, and that's it. Well, I deal respect for Mr. doubt. He'd probably is a great loss that he was the one sound voice of advice to Mr. Trump and his no longer there. Sounds like wishful thinking to me, this is all about politics. This man can't get above the low forties in job approval rating with one of the greatest economies we've had in years, but they're high. Fiving when it gets to put three percent. So I am saying Mr. Dow is engaging wishful thinking if the only standard is a felony, and you can't prosecute a president. We would prosecute this president for what he did. I'm paying hush money corrupting in American election, and he doesn't even defend that Mr. Dow's, right? But I think that the American people are wiser than a narrow view by an excellent lawyer like Mr. down Nancy Pelosi tweeted that she believes Putin has something on on Trump. Do you agree? I infer it which means that I agree from a reasonable inference. I can't prove it. But yes, there's no other explanation to me why he took the notes of a translator never in American history is that ever happened. Well, let me play the other side. He had been burnt his first calls as president by someone leaked out his conversations with the Australian president the prime minister, you got he could be a bit paranoid. Loyd. He I mean, he there could be men on the moon. I there could be martians under my bed. The fact is his conduct with Putin secretive taking phone calls not enforcing sanctions having his campaign officials constantly meeting with Russia and then lying about not talking about Russia. But let me put it this way. Mr. Trump has never had a policy of telling the truth to the American people and what he's done with Mr Putin and all the context and all the lies. You have to ask yourself why? But there is one other point to be made about the standard of this Mullah report, I go back to king Henry the second. King Henry the second was very angry with the archbishop of Canterbury. But he was too smart to tell his nights go kill your Bishop of Canterbury. So what he said was would know in rid me of this grievous priest. In about ten minutes later, the Bishop of Canterbury was debt, if you were on a jury, would you convict king Henry the second of being part of a conspiracy to murder, Mr. Trump never ordered anyone or never did anyone? I didn't collude. I didn't clue I didn't clued he just gave out plenty of signals to his people. So that's lighten up on the campaign plank. Let's not enforce sanctions. That's promised. We won't whited Mr Flynn plead guilty. Why did he lie? Why did everybody lie? Mr. Trump is smart enough to say, well, no one rid me of that grievous priest. Never thought the show is not so intellectual quickly going back into my move. Does another easier way to explain why Mr. Trump can be inferred as being compromised by the Russians. You don't have direct evidence of it. But as I think Bob Woodward and call Bernstein agreed circumstantial evidence is the following you go to bed at night. And there's no snow on the ground you wake up in the morning. And there's no on the grand jury convict that. It's note, you didn't see it. So this is the way Donald Trump is operated as Michael Kohn will explain to the years. He uses code words. He winks any nods and people do what he wants. He doesn't say go kill the archbishop of Canterbury. He says we'll no one would me of this grievous priest, and that's why Mr. doubt standard of direct or as I heard recently. There's no direct evidence of collusion. No. There's no evidence that he even knew the word clues. I doubt that Donald Trump used the reclusion, but did everybody act talk and walk with more Russians meeting talking. Involved with including in the Oval Office where Mr. Trump denounced James Komi and said he was a wacko to the top spy, Russia and the United States. There's just so much Russian involvement is at all coincidence. I think that there's an inference to be John that Mr. Trump including trying to hide what he actually says to Putin. But do you think the president said he's compromised? Do you think all the congressional you? And I did a lot of congressional investigations it bogged down a presidency the American people worked to Bill Clinton's favor twenty years ago investigate over investigating over you know, that this could blow up in the Democrats face danger of overreach on behalf of victims. The fact is you're right. We could overreach, and we have a tendency just like the Republicans to follow the most extreme voices in our base. And there is a danger that we will do that the insurance policy that that won't hurt us in that. We will still prevail in twenty twenty is we're. Running against somebody who is mentally unbalanced. And the American people fear, and I'm not using those words lightly. I believe fifty five to sixty percent of the American people will never vote for Donald Trump under any circumstances. I believe the issue and twenty twenty which Michael Cohen can speak to better than anyone as the man lacks character. He speaks in bigoted words in private which Michael Cohen will tell you he treats people badly, he has no moral character in defrauding people in his businesses and going bankrupt and taking cash out and putting people out of work. He lacks the moral compass that we expect in our presidents. That is a lot more powerful that will occur at the polls then in an impeachment proceeding or in congressional investigation. They do have to while. You're Michael Cohen told many a reporter talking about Donald Trump, even about the stormy Daniels stuff. He'd swear on his children that it wasn't true. So why should we believe him? Now. I mean, I know you. Said but before but he's sworn up and down. Do you gotta trust me? Trust me. I didn't I did this on my own personal fair question. This is a moment of history. Let's right down the date and the time I've said to Chris Basta that he asked me a fair question is is like historical. No, I'm a great fan of Chris is a fair question. Chris. And as I sit to Michael on it took me awhile to be persuaded. You have a heavy burden improve people going to start out saying after all you did you've admitted to lying going to prison for admitting to lying to congress. Why should we believe you? And I'm good enough in the business that I'm in which is to try to get facts out and try to restore people's reputations. That Michael no he starts from a deep hole and the hole is the whole of what he did for Trump for ten years there. A couple of things that he'll say that he heard Donald Trump say behind closed doors about black people that people even. His supporters will say he up that Trump. So in a few weeks Michael Cohen is going to go to jail. What's his head right now? We're we're. Asking his his his family, his great wife too. Great children. And if his name, we're not associated with Donald Trump. I do not believe he would have been the subject to this massive raid. And I don't believe that he'd be at least doing the time that he's doing. But his distress is great. We've set up a gofundme site he hasn't worked for well. Over a year. He certainly worried about a future ability to earn a livelihood and his two kids one out of college. One out of grad school are and his wife are in great distress that their dad's going away for maybe as long as the years, see ready for jail can he survive jail. Lanny he'll survive he's -vivor, and he's a not happy when the Pesident states launches attacks on his wife on his father in law, and then cause them rat which is a label. Then in prison can be a dangerous label. So that is to be taken seriously. But I do think he has been transformed. That's my opinion took me awhile to come to that opinion. And I'm gonna leave it to everybody, including both of you to decide after you've heard him when he speaks whether he should be believed. Thank you very much. Lanny. Thank you. It's hard to believe I've known Lanny Davis for twenty five years. But you know, he he does have a lot of stories to tell all the right back. You see headlines across your screen all day, but you're busy. What do you need to know? What's actually shaping your world? I'm Brad milkey from ABC news and every morning we start here. It was extraordinarily for as watching here in Singapore. ABC's new daily podcast a handful of stories just twenty minutes director Comey. Thanks for being with us. Newsmakers smart reporting taking you straight to the heart of the story starting here. Listen for free on apple podcasts or your favorite podcast at. Welcome back to the investigation. I'm Kira Phillips bringing in now, Matt mosque and Johnson to cheat. Two of our best reporters, of course, within the task force. We had to cut Chris last loose. Apparently, he's gonna some underground bunker to meet with a secret source that sounds like fun. Can we go there? He's in a parking garage somewhere with his deep third source. All right. Well, that'll be the next episode. So what you guys think about the interview with Davis? I thought he was fascinating. And a really interesting contrast to the previous week with John Dowd from John down, you heard the president's point of view from. Lanny you really heard the other side of the story when you and Chris were talking about who Michael Cohen is lannie saying he's changed. He's better and YouTube or saying you both in threaten can I just say Michael Cohen told me he would throw me headfirst out of the twenty six floor of Trump Tower. I wouldn't throw you. Might push you. But I, you know, I I was told I'd be flung headfirst. We've all been on the back end of phone calls and conversations with Michael Cohen. I mean, he yells he screams, and he gets really mad. And you know, I like to say I've had uncomfortably comfortable debates and conversations with Michael Cohen. But Lenny Davis is convinced. He's had a spiritual awakening he is a different person. He is no longer filthy liar. He says, he's come clean. I mean, what's interesting about this transformation and the dispute about whether there was one is that's reflected in the sentencing memos from the special counsel. And then from the southern district of New York. Here's one thing. This other district of New York said about Michael Cohen any suggestion by Cohen that his meetings with law enforcement reflect a selfless and unprompted about-face are overstated. I agree with that. I was. But in the room, but I would just say I completely believe that. But if you listen to Lanny Davis, he said that Michael Cohen is going to give America peek behind Donald Trump's boardroom door, and it's quote chilling. That's the first time we've heard that right here cheer is will. And what's interesting about that is that remember the way that Trump Tower was designed Michael Cohen's office was one of the closest to Donald Trump closer than any of his adult children. His was just a couple of feet away that kids role one floor below him. So to know the way Donald Trump operates when he's just asking for something pulling people in it is believable that Michael would have seen a lot over more than a decade of being his personal lawyer. So I do think he'll give important insight. I would just say knowing Michael and how he's very capable and likes to stretch the truth. It'll be interesting as to how overdramatic and how overplaying his. Gonna be when he sorting to retell these events, but you bring up a good point. Because even before Trump was president. And I wanted to talk to Donald Trump. I wanted to get an interview at Donald Trump. I had to go through Michael Cohen. I wasn't going through some PR person or some other type of Representative. I had to go through Michael Cohen. He was John Miller. The Donald Trump publicist that sounded awfully a lot like him. You'd never spoke to that guy. Never lucky. What I thought was helpful in talking to Lanny was we didn't really know we've heard that Michael Cohen is going to testify on the hill. And the next phase of this whole saga are going to be the show hearings on the hill. And Michael Cohen will be a star of that. We didn't know whether Michael was going to talk about the special counsel investigation. Sounds like he's not what he's going to talk about is what really happened behind closed doors in Trump Tower. I think it's going to be a huge disappointment. Everybody on Capitol Hill. Right. Because you've all. These members of congress hoping praying wishing that somebody will give them some insight into a Bob Muller spin up to it's been going on almost two years. Witnesses have not been able to go before these committees for this exact reason Muller's still looking into them. And they were hoping that Michael since is deals done. He's heading off to jail would be able to give them that insight. I mean based on Lanny's interview Kira, they are going to be extremely disappointed in this presentation. Because Lanny was saying Michael's going to reveal lot about President Trump's moral, compass, but he didn't say way to you hear what Michael has to say about collusion is an expert at navigating the crisis situations, and I think what he's probably telling us is. It's too early for Michael Cohen to talk about the Muller investigation. And so he's not gonna do it. I think this is a perfect time to bring in our Justice correspondent Pierre Thomas. Welcome to the podcast, peer. We're good to be here. You ready? You ready to have a very transparent debate here. You know, you're making me nervous. Pierre nervous. Nobody knows what's coming next better than peer and so- peer tell us. What's next? Well, I mean, I guess we could use that phrase. And so it begins. We have the new attorney general who wants attorney general William bar now in place at the Justice department, and there's some huge things on the table this coming for dinner, if you will the mullahs report, what's he going to say about it is he going to sit over to congress. How much is he going to release to the public that is staring into face almost day one? And I think it's fair to say based on the comment from the acting attorney general Matt Whitaker few weeks ago that report could come in anytime days, if not weeks, you think there may have been some clues in a court hearing that took place week or two ago. Tell us what you read off of the transcript of that hearing. Last week. We had a document release involving a close hearing that was between manafort's attorneys the special counsel's office and the judge overseeing the case and the special counsel was talking freely in what was a closed hearing in a way that we never see them talk in open court. And he said that manafort's relationship and contact by with a guy named Constantine Kalinic who is suspected being a Russian intelligence officer, Andrew Weissmann. Principal deputy for Muller said that quote, those contacts and while they were having them and what they were talking about quote, go to the heart of the special counsel investigation. I don't know if you that's just very dramatic language that we hit never heard before. And as you read into the document deeper. There was something else that was in there that a lot of people haven't noticed, and we're gonna talk about it right now for listeners probably have not heard this before he also said that whatever they were discussing was so critical, and whatever that Manafort was lying about was so critical that they believe that he thought it could impact his potential of getting a pardon the word, pardon was dropped in the document. And again, we'd never heard special counsel. Utter that word pardon in relation to Manafort Pierre. This is like super painful for all of us. I think right because the the transcript is filled with redemptions. So all the hints and clues that are offered. There are not quite fulfilled. Are we going to be able to learn more about what they were talking about you think? Well, I've been pressing some sources, right. Do you keep redacting all this information? And the only thing I can get from someone who is knowledgeable is that we black out the information that's considered ongoing. Ongoing. So this notion of Manafort, again think about it during the cigar room, not far from Trump Tower, three blocks away, three blocks away giant. You wanna tell us about the cigar? Yeah. I mean, I I know it I mean, it's it's Fokker. Smoke cigars with telling you. But it's it's a very interesting place grant Vanna room. So this is a club located on the top floor of six six six Fifth Avenue. The building is owned by the Kushner family owned it for the last several years. They've had some debts on it. They've been trying to pay it off they've straighten that out. It's a private club. The membership is their security cameras. There is we need to go and find those. Yes, we do. What's interesting about this club? Just some of the members that belong to it. Right. So you have the two Trump adult children. They are members reach Leonis member. But then it gets a little weird. Alec Baldwin's member. Al Sharpton is a member it's a very unique juxtaposition of New Yorkers that belong to this club. And Manafort was there many times throughout the campaign. He would take meetings there. But Pierre what was interesting to me in this long filing from the special counsel. We got to see what happened quarter couple of weeks ago is that this meeting the grant Vana room was in August of two thousand sixteen everything that we had originally heard is that the context with clinic who they refer to as KK were earlier in the year bliss ticket step back if. The campaign chairman of the Republican nominee the deputy chairman and the government is saying they're meeting with a suspected Russian intelligence offer. It's insane. And the government has said on the record that polling data shared with clinic. Now, there's always fastened to me what they will withhold. We still don't know what. The polling data is. To because we have to remember this campaign was not sophisticated earlier on we had a conversation, peer you. And I we thought it was the spring Kira? You know, they didn't even they were going to win. They didn't have a polling up. Right. And they will relying on the Republican National Committee. They had one person Tony for breezy of who is doing like big national polling, but let's just be honest national polling when you're going state by state by state, it really doesn't mean a damn thing you need to know what's happening in the states that are actually going to be going to the ballot boxes for primaries. I thought it was interesting when they were talking about this cigar room meeting that they noted how covertly they entered and exited the meeting that the three of them all left through separate exits that doesn't seem like something. The Muller team would know by accident will security camera footage. Like, here's point that. They're really I'd love to see the camera video appear. Here's my. Big question on this. I think a lot of people if Paul Manafort is often doing honestly these things to benefit himself. Right. He had money owed to him to a lot of foreign countries. God knows he owed money himself to others from Ukraine other work. He had done could he have been doing this without Donald Trump or the Trump family knowing anything about it. Because that's what seems like this have nothing to do with campaign. Yeah. That's a very fair point. And I think and just the one with route. They're maybe when we saw Rudy Giuliani and Kellyanne Conway in the last couple of months saying, well, look, I didn't collude, and I don't believe Donald Trump colluded. But if other people on the campaign, we're often doing this. You know, who knows maybe that was them getting ahead of this narrative now that we're seeing in this Vialli, this this is an important moment to make this point in not a single case that Bob Muller has brought has he implied or implicated the president of the United States with doing any single crime? That's fact, we can look at the thirty four indictments and charges, and there's never any allegation to president United States has done. Anything more interested in cases to Bob Muller has brought you're certainly right. And in terms of the Manafort case and the filing there's no implication or. Indication that the president of the United States then candidate Donald Trump knew that this was happening. I'll share with you something that source told me that have to be careful. But here we go with the podcast give it up. What are you say? All right, bring it the air going to make the headline right here. The think about the strictly from the Russian point of view, it's established that a number of people in Trump's orbit or having all these different contacts with the Russians. So at minimum Russians are looking at this group of people seem not to be seeing us as enemies, but people that they can do business with let's see if we can influence them to our advantage in can tell you from the counterintelligence community that the Russians were gaining. It was win win for them. The moment that they had contact with Trump organization officials, and it was not reported back to the FBI. So that the F B I could be proactive investigating. I think the. Big hanging question from our first podcast is John Dowds assertion that. There may not be any report and all the stuff we're talking about. We may never know the answer to curious peer, whether you think that's yeah. He used the D were declaration. Well, his every source. I've talked to says the following that there's going to be a an extraordinary fight over getting that report sent to congress in a way that they're satisfied with the Democrats on the House Judiciary committee Democrats in the house are not going to be satisfied with some pared down. You know, generic report where they don't see all the information because many of them are making the case privately that, although Bob Muller might not find crimes, and what is an impeachable offense. Or what is considered something? That they would care about is a completely different man. They just sort of want a roadmap of how to move forward here in Capitol Hill. I mean, you've been up there cure. I mean, the investigations of they're launching a different ways they're going. I mean, they are looking at anything sixty plus subpoenas. Well, and also too I asked Elijah Cummings with regard to Michael Cohen. Is this the guy that can tell you whether or not there was collusion. And he said, I don't I don't know. But all I want is the truth. So as we get ready for Michael Cohen, and the fact that he's going to testify. What does he really know? Does he have something that can implicate the president could there be criminal charges? And if so could that lead to impeachment? That's what everybody wants to know that that's true based on Lanny's interview with you, and Chris it doesn't sound like Michael's legally able to provide that roadmap when he if he goes and testifies before he heads off to prison. An answer to this by next week's podcast. I hope so, but I highly doubt it so PR question for you. With regard to the molar investigation to this point. What is the biggest revelation for you? Or the biggest thing that you have learned the Spar a great question. I still would say what is his poor notamment. What is his assessment of all the facts have been gathered? And the fact that even in the indictments that. We've see there's been so much redacted information the go quote to the heart of the investigation. I'm quite frankly tired of it. I wanna know what is the bottom line? What is the information that's been withheld from all of us into the most critical things that would help. Bob Muller team understand what did take place and what did not? I think a lot of people share your frustration about that that maybe it's time for the all move into the public independent. View. Yeah. We we're advocates for the first amendment. We wanna know all the facts. But I spoke to a former very senior Justice department official recently this person came to bars hearing and support and he said, you know, on the one hand we had Ken Starr's investigation. And there were a lot of leaks, and we kind of knew the narrative before the report came out and on this hand, we don't know the bottom line of the core of what Muller is finding. We don't know. And he said, I think the the best example might be somewhere in the middle. He doesn't think that this much of a black hole about the core of what mos- findings are is good for anyone. He doesn't good for the president. Then think is good for the American public. We should know more about the bottom line where Muller is going with this investigation. I think that's a great place to wrap up. Pier. So glad that you could be with us for this episode. And thanks for joining us for the second episode of the investigation, be sure to hit subscribe, leave us a rating and review. So that other folks can find us, and it's also great feedback for us. And thanks to our producers behind the scene. Tear Trevor Hastings Caitlyn Fulmer Emily Rochelle sqi and for my colleagues Chris last. Oh, Matt moss. Johnson tucci. We will see you next Tuesday on the investigation.

President Trump Michael Cohen president Trump Trump Michael Trump Tower Mr. Muller Donald Trump Michael Kohn Lanny President Clinton Trump Tower Trump White House Chris Lanny Davis special counsel Mr Putin Muller United States
Trump and Kim look for a grand bargain in Hanoi

Post Reports

17:30 min | 2 years ago

Trump and Kim look for a grand bargain in Hanoi

"Newsroom, the Washington Post. Hi, kevin. This is real tell you the Washington Post. How are you? Hey, this is post reports. I'm Martin powers. Tuesday, February twenty six. Today. What President Trump wants to accomplish? During the second summit with Kim Jong Michael Cohen begins three days of congressional testimony. And the recent pigeons of Iraq. President Trump and North Korea's Kim Jong UN have arrived in Hanoi for a second round of nuclear negotiations. The stakes are high, and it's hard to tell what deal might be brokered because it wasn't that long ago. When President Trump didn't like Kim Jong UN, no one has shown more contempt for other nations and for the wellbeing of their own people, then the depraved regime in North Korea rocket man, his own a suicide mission from cell and for his regime rocket man should have been handled a long time ago. But then that started to change after the first summit with Kim last summer. Very good relationship with John very very good. I was really big tough. And so was saying I will go back and forth. And then we fell in love. Now. Really he wrote me beautiful letters and their great letters. We fell in love. At the end of that last summit. The two countries came up with a four hundred word agreement vaguely reaffirming their commitment to denuclearization. President Trump's he's hoping to build on those negotiations this week that North Korea. And chairman Jim have some very positive things in mind, and we'll soon find out Simon de near is the posts bureau chief for Japan, and the Koreas, and he's in Hanoi reporting on the summit, we haven't yet seen Kim Jong. I have hung out in the street quite a bit trying to catch a glimpse. I saw the motorcade drive pass. But the windows were firmly tinted since that last meeting in Singapore, North Korea has stopped their nuclear and missile tests. But Simon says that essentially there has been little substantial movement toward denuclearization. We do have situation now with the two sides of talking on the north. On testing. The next step is actually to get him to stop producing nuclear weapons on missiles, and then get them to stunt dismantle ago. So if that's the goal for the US to get a clear in concrete commitment from North Korea that they are willing to denuclearize. What would that concrete commitment? Look like, probably the first step would be the young meal nuclear research complex, which is really the heart of the nuclear industry. It has three nuclear reactors one of which is the main media reactor which produces all of North Korea's to Tonia for nuclear weapons with being down the road before trying to close that that react to down than off to his inspectors abandon afterwards. It's restarted. So we need to close that react to down permanently is also facilities where they enrich uranium for weapons. Those need to be. Be declared because some of them on public knowledge and then close down. So that would be the first step towards starting that process of actually denuclearizing. What were the you ass be willing to trade in exchange for getting some kind of commitment like that? What North Korea wants above? What else is sanctions relief? That's what he's asking. Will the US is offering is a bit different is offering two things which North Korea does value at one would be an end of war declaration that collation the Korean war which ended in a ceasefire the peace treaty a declaration that will resolve a signal that relations between the two countries a not hostile the second thing would be the opening of liaison offices in each other's capitals. That's note diplomatic recognition, but it's the first step towards diplomatic recognition. But the third thing is sanctions relief. And that's the question. How much sanctions relief is the US prepared to offer. How much will the North Koreans demand will be able to meet in the middle? Well, sanctions relief in particular seems like a pretty controversial prospect because I think that there is a very real criticism to be made of off. Airing thanks relief to North Korea. If they haven't actually done anything to commit themselves to denuclearization up -solutely. That's that's absolutely right sectors. Stay Pompeo said it again at the weekend. The United Nations Security council. Sanctions have to remain in place until North Korea. Silly finally denuclearize. The course. Xers the core. UN Security Council resolution sanctions we've said consistently full verified nuclearization, that's the standard for relieving those sanctions that policies not changed since I think since the day, President Trump took office if you relax human Security Council. Sanctions is going to be almost impossible to put them back on a very difficult because Russia and China from ably wouldn't play bull a second time and allow them to be ratcheted back up again, if you ease them it's kind of a one way street, the US is going to be very reluctant to ease. Those UN Security Council. Sanctions why is the summit happening in Vietnam? The at Phnom. We're told suggested itself as venue quite early on in the process that she put it self food. It has not been non has a particular place in Asia right now where it doesn't want to be sucked to into anybody's camp. So the plan of mediating role kind of fits in. If you like with Vietnam 's external philosophy for the US Vietnam is really attractive option because it wants to convince North Korea to go down Vietnam's pas positive economic fold the opening up to the global economy. The North Koreans in Vietnam was was North Korea was the third country to give it nam diplomatic relations in nineteen fifty. They do have some historic prostes their relations have gone through quite a lot of ups and downs over the years. But it is a fellow communist. Country, and I think probably is irrelevant North Korea. So news looking venues a still someone could they could at least trust and understand to some degree. So if this summit concludes, but there's no agreement and if negotiations fail or if either President Trump or Kim Jong UN come out of this feeling dissatisfied with what went down, then what happens next. We'll we're hearing is the negotiations are really going up. So the one that really going down to the last minute. Neither side wants this process to end that will I am sure come out of this publicly saying that it's been a success and that they've had a great conversation, and they are on the same page. But if they don't actually come up with concrete agreements, I think the. Criticism from outside will grow on that does gradually become a. Thank you, so much, Simon pleasure. Simon de near is the posts bureau chief for Japan and the Korea's President Trump and Kim Jong UN are expected to have dinner together on Wednesday evening before their formal talks on Thursday. It's kinda Michael Kohn week on the hill. I mean, it's it's like on missile. Michael Cohen, the president's former lawyer and fixer is testifying before congress this week and on Wednesday that testimony will be open to the public and televised. Investigative reporter rise on Helderman will be covering. So I think that this has possibility of being sort of seminal moment for the Trump administration. Tuesday. He is testifying before the Senate intelligence committee. That's closed door hearing Thursday. He's testifying before the house intelligence committee. That's also closed door. But Wednesday is the main event Wednesday. He will be testifying publicly in front of the house oversight committee. Now, there are some curbs and limits on what he has said he will speak about publicly these not supposed to be getting deep into matters related to the Russian vestich in because a special counsel's investigation is ongoing. But there's a lot of room of other stuff. He could talk about like what he can talk all about hush money. That was paid to stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal, but for the twenty sixteen election, Michael Cohen has pled guilty to felonies related to those payments, and he has said in court the he was directed to undertake that criminal activity by the president of the United States. So we're gonna hear him lay out. Exactly how all that wind. Down will also potentially hear more about other interactions with the National Enquirer other instances, where Donald Trump or he played a role in National Enquirer coverage, potentially other women other allegations that were made against the president that he was asked to keep quiet. You know, someone close to Cohen has been out there saying that he's going to be talking about the president's lies, cheating and racism. I mean, that's pretty stunning. And the racism part is particularly interesting to me. What what do we know about that? Yeah. We don't know a lot of details yet. But we have been told that he is going to tell personal anecdotes about his time with President Trump and his observations of the president's racism. So, you know, he did know the man very well he worked with him for ten years. And I think that's going to be something. We're going to be talking about at the end of tomorrow. So if people are talking about this testimony that Michael Kohn is gonna be giving a lot of people are comparing him to John dean who people might remember as the white. House lawyer who testified during Watergate to talk about all of president Nixon's misdeeds. But for Michael Cohen, he's much less credible. I think to a lot of people then a White House attorney would have been to what extent do you think that people will actually believe what he's saying? Well, I mean, it is true. That Michael Cohen is a confessed convicted wire, so you know, you can certainly expect to hear a lot about that from the Republicans who are going to be trying to draw blood from him, essentially. But I think we expect him to testify for many hours. There has been some suggestion that he might bring documents with him financial documents supposedly so documents potentially from the president or about the president. Or apparently, we don't really know. But you know, we do know that Michael Cohen worked for him for ten years. And so it's not inconceivable that he might have quite a lot of paperwork left over from that time period. So you know, he might be able to bring documents to prove what he is saying. Ng? I think the other thing is he is not necessarily known to be the most stable person he's kind of a hot head. And so I think Republicans will try really hard to provoke him and they may succeed. So even Michael Cohen in meltdown would be quite a moment to watch on national television. But if he can kind of keep his wits about him and Tele consistent story, you know, not let them poke holes in his narrative, you know, we'll get watch in real time. Whether he just gives off the appearance of being a credible witness or not you mentioned that one thing that he won't be asked about into much detail will be things related to the Russia investigation. But that seems like a a whole alarge swath of questions that are now ruled out because they're a part of the Russian Vesey gave him. Yeah. I'll be really interested to see how that plays out. I mean, I think we do anticipate that he'll be asked about the BuzzFeed story, the one that said that the president directed him to lie to congress about the Trump Tower Moscow project. The special counsel has said that story was not correct. I do think he'll be asked about that. And once he sorta starts down the road of answering some questions about Russia. I don't know how he stops other questions. But we'll see how it plays out. It is possible. His lawyer will jump in various points and say, you know, we we have an agreement with the committee not to talk about Russia. That's not a question, you know, Mr. Coen's going to address you've been covering the molar investigation and some extent Michael Cohen for quite a while. Now, if you were up there asking questions what's the question that you would ask Michael Cohen? So I mean, I'm I'm a real door. So I would like Ploto the documents and say, you know, you told the core that your payments on about stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal were proved by two executives at the Trump organization. Name them who are those executives? What did they know about these payments? But I mean alternately when you really get down to it. The question that he needs to be asked about each of these differ. Subjects is the classic. Watergate question, right. Which is one of the president know. And when did he know it? In case about trust. Thank you for having me Rosalind Helderman is a political investigative reporter. And now one more thing about pigeon racing in Iraq. These are birds that fly hundreds of miles in one race after their owners have spent thousands of dollars and many months getting them into tiptop shape. People are breeding them raising them and selling them in order to participate in these long distance pigeon races. And that's when I became fascinated with an almost obsessed with the idea that I need to do this story at some point camera Alba, she is the post's Baghdad bureau chief for two years. He's been reporting on these racing pigeons and the people who care for them. Some of these men do it for the glory and some of them just do it for a little bit of cash at the end of the race, the subculture around elite pigeon racing is really fascinating. It's takes extreme dedication takes a lot of money and someone who's really competitive as well. And in Iraqi society, it's also a liability. Iraq has this funny little reputation around people who raise pigeons apparently people raise pigeons tend to be scoundrels people who cannot be trusted people who in some cases, they're considered perverts because they have these pigeon lofts high up on the roofs of their houses, and the reputation is that maybe they're spying on their neighbors or trying to catch a glimpse of the woman next door hanging laundry. So they just have this. It's embedded in the culture, the popular culture that they're people. You don't wanna know? But what I discovered is that the people who do the pigeon racing are often very well to do men mostly I did not a single woman who's into this hobby. They range from medical doctors to professors to high ranking military officials and high-ranking police officials tamra says that despite the time and money that it costs racing pigeons is a way to make sense of life. What people tell me is that the draw for them. This is one of the few activities they can pursue in a country like Iraq in a region like the Middle East in which they feel like they're in total control. You know, there's a lot of variables there's a lot of government dysfunction and just there's so many random events that can just change the course of your life. This is just somewhere where they feel like they are in complete control. Timur L. Go Bashi is the Baghdad bureau chief for the post. That's it. For post reports. I'm Martine powers. I'll be out for the next week. And post investigative reporter came real Kelly will be filling in as host of the show she'll be here tomorrow with more stories from the Washington Post.

President Trump North Koreans president Michael Cohen US Kim Jong UN Kim Jong Michael Cohen Washington Post bureau chief Iraq Michael Kohn Vietnam Hanoi John dean investigative reporter Kim Russia United Nations Security counci Kim Jong
SCOTUS Rules: Trump Is Not Above The Law

ACLU Civil Liberties Minute

01:29 min | 9 months ago

SCOTUS Rules: Trump Is Not Above The Law

"The president isn't above the law. My name is Ramzan. Cork, and this is the civil liberties minute with attorney Bill Noonan. That's what the supreme. Court in July emphatically ruled in the case in which the Manhattan district attorney Cyrus Vance had issued a subpoena to Donald Trump's accounting firm, seeking certain of the president's financial records. The DA is investigating hush money payments that were made as trump was running for president in two thousand sixteen. MR, trump and his company reimbursed Michael Kohn. He's trump's former lawyer fixer for Payments Cohen May to pornographic film actress. Stormy Daniels and playboy model Karen McDougal both of whom say they had an affair with Mr, trump and we're paid to stay quiet. Mr Trump objected to producing the records. In this case, the Supreme Court categorically rejected the president's sweeping claims of presidential immunity, his claim that no records about him could be subpoenaed from anyone as long as he holds office. No matter how relevant to the investigation, the papers might be because well. He's the president. To which the Supreme Court in essence responded. Yes, you are, you're the president, but over two hundred years of precedent stand for the proposition that in the United States, unlike authoritarian governments know person including the president is above the law. The civil liberties minute is made possible by the ACLU because freedom can't protect itself.

Donald Trump Supreme Court Michael Kohn Bill Noonan Payments Cohen Cyrus Vance Stormy Daniels ACLU Cork Karen McDougal Manhattan attorney United States two hundred years
The Anniversary #WITHpod Mailbag

Why Is This Happening? with Chris Hayes

41:39 min | 2 years ago

The Anniversary #WITHpod Mailbag

"Yeah. Hello, and welcome to wise this happening with me, your host, Chris, as well with pod listers the big special gay here in the studio. They always tell you when you're in podcasting school, try to clap on the beat of every where you say, because that makes for good audio, we, we've got we've got a matter here in the studio, and we've got the one and only, you know, or you love her Tiffany champion me again. Tiffany champion is here at the microphone vaca ones in twos. We are here we thought, well, I'm going to take you behind the behind the scenes here. We're a little jammed up on the schedule sched- here in with pod land, partly because we have a variety of town, halls were doing the presidential candidates, very exciting. Those town halls mean that I have to travel out of town. It's very hard to record the podcast outta town. We've had like weird bunch of things where people had guests and they cancelled and usually what we do is we. Like a little cushion. Where we have some stuff in the can the cushions got little, little thin, but we love, we just we know that we need to shovel the coal of our content into the furnace that is your ear holes every week. Now how many people tweet about your whole? I know I love it. I know I wish you could see Tiffany's pace everytime. I praise. So anyway, we work very hard to, to make sure that we have a fresh episode for every week. And we've run into some logistical difficulty. So this was partly born of necessity, but also because it is the one you're aniversary, and we do get a lot of amazing feedback from you guys. And the last time that we did the male bad, people were super into it. And so we thought we would do another mail bag Assode here this week to commemorate us turning one year old, which is amazing. I can't believe we've been doing this for a year. But it's yeah. It's been it's crazy. How quickly it went by. We've done like we've also we've done more than because we have taken literally there was like two episodes. We took off. But we've also done multiple weeks of multiple episodes. We've definitely done more than fifty two episodes. Right. Yeah. Fifty seven Matto saying, we've done fifty seven episodes of wise is happening and two live shows where sometimes coincide, that's right. We got we have some live show plans that are in the works for this fall. I think I don't know my calendars, every time I pull. My g Cal. I'm just like I just see a sea of different colors that are like different things that are blocked out, and it gives me a panic attack. Chris Hayes is a busy man. Shocking. Yeah. We have we've done a lot this last year. We've done to live shows, we've talked to about all kinds of topics all types of different people. We have merch now which is kinda neat got merch. We've got merch emerge. We can go to good website. Yeah. See store under all in. We have coffee, mugs and totes and shirts and stuff. We might try and do a giveaway if we can snack sun's gonna merchants kind of expensive. We don't control the prices on the merch, which is like, it's I think the water bottles, one hundred and seven dollars just strikes me as a little much. But there's a great installment payment. We've got an installment plan for the merge of water that it's funny. I really like people I feel like the caricatures very polarizing. It's real people strong. I like it. I find it like I don't think it necessarily looks at like me, but I find it like like an inviting and sort of delightfully. It's like like, oh, that he that person looks like they're smiling somebody really don't like it. They either want is or they want less teeth. And I. I would I would venture to say that either those modifications would be haunted retried to do. We try to do it with is actually that was did you, you saw that, right, Matt? There was virtually with is it was super creepy. So what are we got in the mail? We have a lot of questions but I do this is one that comes up on Twitter, very regularly, and sort of tangentially about the branding of the show, and that is, how do you feel about the fact that with pod? A lot of people think of what now. Yeah, I, I, I should be on us at the wise is happening was was a was coined by the all in executive producer. Denis Horgan and we immediately loved it. And then we were thinking about we wanted to have some abbreviation, and I had not thought of that, but immediately like the first time that we put it up you were like, yeah. It's also like what in the hell like, yes, what in the hell, which is a little the reason I wouldn't call it, what in the hell because what in the hell sounds very close to WT f with Faulk, which is the very famous. Very successful. Very excellent. Mark Merrin podcast, which another behind the scenes thing is edited, a by a Brennan MacDonald, who's sort of co-produce remark of that podcast, who edits, our, our podcast, which, by the way is like a little bit of the secret sauce. Which is like, we actually have basically, the best podcast, interviewer interview, editor that exists at it's our interviews, which is really helpful and making them really good. So I always thought I love what in the hell and I love the fact that people are always like saying, what in the hell but we couldn't name it, what in the hell because that's ounce too much like Marquesa Mark's podcast. So first question is from Mary from the inbox and something that we talk about a lot? But specifically in the David Roberts episode is discussing the notion that people in the grip of tribalism don't necessarily care about facts. She says she fears her so much emphasis when it comes to the mall report that you need to get the full report, we need to see Muller, but based off of what we've talked about, if they've already entrenched themselves in a certain camp. They aren't going to believe that I think it's a great point. Like, I, I wonder sometimes about this debate about sort of impeachment, there's a sense about, like we need to get the facts, and then we need to bring the facts, the American people, but I think. Conflicted with their some set of facts that we don't know that we need to wrench out into the sunlight and then present them all the American people. But there's a lot of things going on right now, vis-a-vis, how people feel about the president and impeachment, and whether he's committed high crimes misdemeanors. Whether he's acting lawless fashion, one of the challenges, I think it isn't just like getting new facts. It's presenting them in a coherent, whole or reminding people affected exist like the other day someone says something about the Moscow tower project and momentarily. Right. Where what was the that was like the big project where Michael Kohn was literally, calling, like, Putin's deputy and leaving a message and getting a callback during the campaign about, like we're going to build this big thing and give you the penthouse condo, and yada, yada. And there's so much that happens that you just cannot keep it all in your head, the challenge to me is less facts than narrative, and I don't know whether you would persuade anyone like, I don't know how many persuadable people there are to be honest about impeach or the presence lawless reserves to be either impeached. Or or impeached and removed. I do however, think that even if you take the fifty five percent of the country that disapproves, the president fifty-six somewhere like they're, you know, it's always in that ballpark, the majority of Americans disapprove, the president. There's a lot of work to do, just like making the facts at exist cohere for them. And I think that's a different thing than like, oh, if we give people enough information will persuade them like. It is the case that people are could be open to being like, yeah. I think he's not good. And I wanna learn more. I want to sort of figure out like why it matters outfits together. And that's the kind of narrative work, I feel like needs to be done as opposed to the idea that if you reveal some new set of facts that people that love the president are going to sort of turn on him. And I don't think that's a case like, I do think the shooting people in Fifth Avenue insight that he had is correct, like. He, he said, if I could it's, it's my my, you know, my fans are the most voted I could get out and shoot people in the middle of avenue, and they wouldn't. And I think that's basically true of the hard core people, which is but again that the hardcore people whom that is true, the is probably thirty five percent of the country. You know, that's, that's a like a little more than a third of the country are in that the rest, I think people are persuadable in the margins. Although I will the final thing I'll say is, I think the material conditions of people's lives matter, a lot more like the Lordstown plant in Ohio, the GM plant that closed. I bet you there are some Trump voters in that factory who are not going to vote for Donald Trump again. And that's and that's based on a set of facs, like the they had a job. Now, they don't but it's it it's biting more than than some sort of abstract affects revealing the redacted pieces of the Muller apart aren't going to convince people as much as. As the farmers who are feeling the effects of. Yes. Exactly. Yeah. The soybean farmers or the or the folks who've lost jobs. So, I think, yeah, that's my basic feeling like people can be moved their voting behavior can be moved, but things that have to do with, like that hit very close to home and have to do with the material self interest, particularly or their loved ones. I mean, we've seen stories this is this is like a micro, John row of reporting the Trump era as like the person voted to Trump who is married to a guy from Mexico or a woman from El Salvador and then they, they got deported by ice. And it's like that the yorker contest, which is like I never thought the, the, the leopard will your face party would eat my face or whatever. Like there's a little bit of that happening. So this is a question from Lucas, also from the inbox. It says, I feel like I've heard Chris and other commentators talk about how climate change is our most pressing existential crisis, but isn't it actually nukes? My real question is aren't nukes, more motivating force within progressive politics today, not to take anything away from the horrors of climate change, but nukes present an immediate threat to every single person on earth. So, don't you think that would be more animating so funny, it's I did not know you're gonna read that. But it's funny I just gave a speech at. The environmental on policy center in Chicago there. Mid western environmental group, where I was actually talking about the nuclear threat and, and sort of analogize into it. I mean, here's what I would say about this nuclear weapons, always pose an existential threat to human life on the planet. But what happened from the nineteen fifties to, you know, basically through the next six decades was because of incredible political mobilization technical and bureaucratic breakthroughs. And, you know, international diplomacy like year-by-year decade by decade systems have been put in place to make the threat of nuclear war accidental, nuclear deployment, and, you know, mass death less and less likely like in some ways, like there wasn't. There was a movement. You know, the nuclear freeze, move the nineteen eighties, which put together when the biggest protests in human history park in the nineteen eighties. All of that did have a really good effect. It, it was part of what produced all kinds of treaties bilateral treaties, with, with, what was then Soviet Union. Now Russia, that putting together all sorts of like political controls inside the United States that have reduced nuclear warheads between the two countries. Like all that stuff is mattered. Like I would love to live in the world where we have put as much in place to climate change that we have a nuclear weapons, which is not to say that nuclear weapons don't in every instant pose a huge threat. It's just that we have put into place, a variety of treaties institutions innovations that have made the threat of nuclear mass extinction more remote, I think than it was a forty years ago in a way that we haven't for climate and in some ways, I think some hope from nuclear story, like it was a mass movement throughout the globe, combined with international diplomacy, and sort of farsighted leadership. That, you know, put things together like the agreements that made sure that we secured nuclear weapons in the post, Soviet republics, and made sure they didn't get into the wrong hands. All of that has been the product of a lot of work. And so I think that like I would love for us to be. With respect to climate change where we are now in the year twenty nineteen with respect to nuclear weapons. A lot of people we get a lot of feedback after every climate conversation that we've had we had the one with Andrew ref kin which got a lot of response. And then. Swells, which also got a lot of response, primarily, a lot of people left that one feeling a little down and depressed. But a lot of people every time say, will why don't you talk about this? There's more about climate. Why did she talk about sustainable farming or why didn't you talk about are there specific conversations about climate that you want to try and get to this year that we haven't talked? Yeah, I do. I mean, I think. There's a lot of stuff about the nitty gritty of the energy future. That's really interesting to me, there is a really fascinating question about sort of housing density transportation development. There's a really interesting question about forming and particularly animal meat consumption and the role that that plays. So yeah, there's a bunch of climate topics. I want to get to I'm I'm right now. I'm pretty obsessed now with just like what? The details of the big energy transition look like. It's pretty technical weeds e stuff I was just when I was at this L C event talking to people who are in the solar industry about, like, which states have renewable portfolio standards and how that's working and whether net metering is happening, and who's fighting that metering, and yada, yada, yada, yada. I sold you. Yeah. This year we're going to do seven podcasts that metering. Net metering is the ability to sort of sell your lectures, -i back to the grid, which is a key part of making solar economic for folks. Writes the ideas like you can actually, you know, when you're overproducing you, you, you can sell it back to the grid and that, that means that people are both buyers and sellers of electric Z sort of changes. The face of how we think about energy consumption. But it also means that the grade is being used which the utility companies have paid for and paid to upkeep. But there there's like this free rider problem, according utilities, they fight net, metering, lots, it's really interesting battle utilities are another area of obsession for me. Because, like I can't think of a topic more, boring and Tila, these elect, but utilities matter everybody so much utilities concept like the idea of a national monopoly and the government, grants monopoly license, and then attempts to regulate it is fascinating to me the way they actually function who they fight for the influence. Have the way that they have both resisted or been far-sighted PGN, California, which is probably the most controversial utility in the country right now, who is like many people believe, as widely responsible for the wildfires. So there's a lot there's a lot more than I want to do this year. I don't know if we've talked about this, I think, maybe in the very first teaser, we mentioned this, but this podcast is sort of borne out from what Chris as used to do, when he would come in to our editorial meetings, and there'd be something that he was super fired up about, and he would go on a five ten minute, fifteen minute monologue about it, and it would never be able to make it into the show, and it would start off with us thinking, like, all right. We're gonna talk about metering and stuff. And by the NBA, like, yeah, that's really interesting. But we're not getting ready. We're doing. It's not the be making in the podcast podcast. And now that's literally bugging do podcast. Exactly. I was sold. I was glass eyed by the beginning. So, yes. So our inbox is primarily very friendly. Everyone is very great. Sometimes we get combative emails and I try to engage with them totally. I love I mean, I have to say, let me just say. Love our listeners. Really, they're super great. And I get sometimes I personally got. Critiques but they're generally, like, really. Gracious, even if pointed, you know, we have good exchanges. Yeah. So there is the rare one that comes through and I- dying of whiteness, was one that I think got to a lot of people probably it's very vacuum title, totally tough subject matter. But someone in one of these more combative emails. Raise the question that I wanted to bring, which is that if these years data that these years are coming from twenty fifteen sixteen and seventeen were during technically the Trump administration, but we're reflecting policies, perhaps over in the Obama administration. These are things that we often talk about with the economy. You know, Trump is writing this great economy that was brought in by Obama. Why is that not the same with Trump do? E- is there a tendency to blame these these? You know, twenty fifteen sixteen seventeen data on him even though and other frames of reference, we might attribute them to prior administration. Yeah. I mean, I think we should be very clear that most of the data that. John, the metals dealing with is under the Obama administration. Like it's during the time the Bronco bombs president, the causal mechanism that he cites has to do with state takeovers of governments that happened post two thousand ten. So what, what tends to happen is, there are so many states because of that two thousand ten t party wave and because of the incredible success. It had in states starting in two thousand ten you see this like unified Republican governance and all these states. Very right wing, governance, with very aggressive policy platform that, that he is sort of identifying the causal mechanism that's producing whether it's like Gundy regulation or, you know, Medicaid opt out or these things. But I also think it is fair to ask whether the federal dome was doing enough, and there's been reporting recently, particularly in the opioid crisis where, you know, the opioid crisis starts to explode under the bonus ration- like just the fact of the matter. And, you know the. Of life expectancy in the US starts declining, under the Obama administration. You know, there was recently a big, I think a big story in the New York Times about like, what the Obama station didn't didn't do to mobilize around the opioid crisis. And I think there's a lot of people who felt like that. They were they failed on that. And I think that's a I think that's totally legitimate. You know, I think there's a lot of things that they did very well. I think. The when you look at what they inherited in what they went out with these the economy. But it is the case that, that these sort of the life expectancies metrics, and the opioid crisis. Dharavi connected, do start under their watch. And there's a real question about whether that was a that, that was a failure on their part. One another Email or another episode that got a lot of emails was about Amazon. We actually I didn't print this out. There was a woman who was a benefited the healthcare of her husband, she had a child with a chronic illness, and they were moved, and they had a much better health care, and she felt more secure with them. And there's a lot of like hers was very personal story. But there are a lot of people who felt like we were sort of capitalizing on this moment of critiquing Amazon. The, the story that woman was at. She worked for Amazon husband worked for Amazon. They were relocated. And so she Zepelling positive about and that some of these criticisms are overlooking some of the other broader good they're doing. And one of the questions that someone had in regards to this idea of now is the moment to hit on Amazon was on the point of Amazon using data gathered from the marketplace to launch its own products like Amazon basics, which we talked about while it sounds worrisome. How a sister practice different from what big traditional retailers, grocers are doing, like when you see Kroger target, where right next to a brand they have their own brand. Are these not the same thing to GRA question? I think it's a little sort of like the idea of like a generic, I think that the only difference to me here is just like the scope of the data that they have that, because they're just so big like there's nothing quite as big or universal as Amazon, and there's not so many places that you can play. I mean. I also don't know I'd be really interested in how the development engineer products works at a place like Kroger. I doubt that it's is data sophisticated as what Amazon is capable of doing. And I think that's the sort of worrying thing. I don't think there's anything wrong with selling generic. I mean that's I just to be clear. I will we didn't we weren't Rockefellers? I grew up so we ate toasted oats and not your ios like the idea that we would ever have brand name serial my house is just like ridiculous. When I've got other kids housing, Tropicana. I was like, well. Trump again in the fridge. So, yeah, it's a really good question. Yeah. To me. That's more the issue right? Is at like they're playing both the role of sort of open marketplace, and also competitor, which grocery stores doing. But I'm not sure grocery store, quite has the like statistical algorithm. Ick is into the incredible range of products that Amazon does, and something that she brought up in that upper sewed. This was actually a very transformative episode for me personally, one of the things that I've changed immediately after is I when we would link books immediately, link Amazon books, if you wanted to buy a book, your you can find out an Amazon, because that's where I purchased all of mine, and after that episode with her I thought far more critically. Now, I try and link Oliver episodes, the books reference in episodes to India mount, something as simple as that right? Because it's it also becomes like path dependence saying, I think that's part of the power of Amazon is just like oh, you're already logged in there are like, you know, it's already like kindle. So that's you know, I it's you can buy one click, and then it's like on my phone, a second later. It's like oh I'm running late. I forgot my book, and I'm on the train, but I have twenty minutes, and it's like seven bucks, like over and the friction list path. Dependence is part of, you know, and I think that's part of what wrestling with it as a force is, is because from the consumer perspective like I do find it one of the most easy to use friction lists things I deal with for sure. Well and not only they create their own thing, similar to the way target or Coker CVS does. But then what Emma Zahn does which she talks about that separated? Stacey talks about is hides the original product that they are ripping off pages and pages know that's the other thing, I think about. So when I think about like the cereal aisle, right? Like there's something spatially different about the cereal and the and the Amazon search results. Which is like if you search for plates, and I've bought like the Amazon basic place, because it's like I don't know what plates, I just want just give me plates. And so the they have this control of primacy in a way as well. Like there's, there's no analogue there's no real physical analogue. I think to that same thing happens in a grocery store. When you're in a serial words like the first result in the search matters, a huge amount like whatever's in that top row, which is another thing they can manipulate. All right. So this is one of my favorite emails that we've gotten recently, it's from Lorraine, who ran into you while you're on vacation. It's very sweet. She talks about how she puzzled over saying hi to you. And then she asked this question that, well, here, it is, she says, you seemed to have an exceptionally exuberant emotional spot response when after my husband's stated that we watched your show. I mentioned that I listened to the podcast. Can you tell me what that was about? Why are you more excited to be a with pod listener that an all in viewer? You know that's very funny. So she random universe is. Yeah. We were my, my family, and I we recently for spring break, we went to London Paris, our kids, which was super fun and verse. I. And I I by the way, the best thing, the best until about for Cy is that there's no bathrooms inverse. I, which is the best thing. I'll tell you in a second one. It's, it's an incredibly important detail because when you start the tour it's like you'd better have gone. And if you have a five year old boy, like I do we say, like, are you. Sure, and, like, yes. And then, like, midway through. I gotta go and it's like, okay, I guess we're running for the second half of her Cy actual thing that happened. But the other thing I've ever size like it's like the, you know, the height of grandeur, obviously, it's like the most grand place. But what it actually did like because there is no. There are no bathrooms like the entire gardens were just where people use the bathroom, and also at parties, people would just urinate in the corner of the rooms because there's also like it's just like the whole time you're there. You're just like reminding yourself at like amidst like the gold, leading it was just disgusting sti- like the dominant experience of her side was that it was unbelievable. Anyway. It's not like the BBC period dramas that we know exactly. Yeah. I mean, I think that I have that response to podcast listeners because I think there's like an intimacy to the format and connection. And I think there's a and I think you would probably agree with me that, like my natural rhetorical motive address the way that I think through things kind of like a little discursive -ly is just like this, the me of this podcast is essentially exactly the way that I am in life and the me on the show is very close as well. But just like a little less that because of the format because you have to punch through in certain ways. And so I think that someone who's. Really devoted their whole life to having people like him. In an absolutely just DEP list. Knee. Forever mation from strangers that the that, that, that the affirmation of the podcast feels like something closer to my heart or that people cmih. And I think that, you know, I think I've been thinking about this a lot because I think that actually this is actually like one of the sort of central themes of modern digital society, which is like, everyone searching for information that, and that a bunch of companies like weaponized, this extremely core human desire for recognition affirmation, and that we all experience it now, in, in various ways, because everyone is has some sort of public facing part of them and get some like measurable feedback. So, yeah, that's, that's why I think that it just it. And there's projects very close to my heart. I just I really, you know, we're doing it as we say it's like a science project for us. We don't you know, we just do this as the volunteer undertaking. And I'll let people really pick up on that also that they feel like this is much more you than, you know, it people talk about how feels like you're listening to a conversation with Chris, Hayes and Kwami Anthony at the 'em. So a fellow up from Lorraine, how do you choose your guests for the podcast? They seem to run the gamut from universally known to obscure and from, which guest, you feel like you learn the most the second question will question is, is adjacent to another question. That is either in their coming up, who's my favorite guests and the answer that is Kate Shaw. That's an easy one to answer my wife which if you haven't listened that podcast. It's, it's a it's an early one and is really a fun one. Yeah. The, the process is sort of interesting because I think what I think, is great is like, it's not it's pretty haphazard, which I think is part of why we, in fact, we just did a podcast we weren't able to air because just for variety of reasons like someone emailed, me and said this doctors in town, and we talked to them. Fastening story is sort of didn't work technically. But that was one of sometimes people something we'll just cross my attention span for a second. I think, oh, there's a there's a full full conversation there. And then sometimes it's like, you know, big, big book that, like the Saint Patrick Keith say, nothing like a big popular book. He's been on a bunch of different podcasts and shows, but I think the two things that we do focus on our three things. One is like, am I intellectually, curious and interested in this topic? Like do I wanna learn more about it too? I'm gonna talk about it at length and listen about at length to are we doing good job of like maintaining diversity like you know. Gender diversity ethnic racial diversity, sort of viewpoint diversity, and then, like even topic diversity, like you know. We want to sort of constantly mixing it up and then three, I think is like a balance of big name, and totally obscure like one of the things I like about the podcast is we have both like Tana hussy coats, and then also like, Georgia Angelini, who this independent film about housing. That was a great podcast, that I a handful of people in the world and seeing the movie at that point. It's funny you should mention that Chris, as I actually right before we came up got an Email from Giorgio who had this phenomenal episode his documentary owned a tale of two Americas was at the time sort of starting to hit up festivals. But it's finally coming out June fourth. You can find items owned. He also referred to tweet Sean mcelwain today, Sean Mackel user to a lefty, gadfly activist founder of data for progress. I explicit tag on the cat. I explicit. He really curses a lot. And he replied to something Sean mcelwee tweeted, maybe, at me being like as a fellow with pot alum. Durable category with pot. But I like that as a category. I liked the cat that the fact that the category of with Puttalam is like capitus and includes like organizers intellectuals, academics. Sort of people who formally study stuff journalists. Yeah. Absolutely. It truly is an amazing. It's great. And it's owned and it's on Netflix now. Right. Or no. I tunes. It's on items pre sales are up I own. Check it out. It's really good. And it's, it's yeah it's all right. We're going to do a quick roundup of vinyl, your questions from listener Tiffany champion. Wait, you have your own questions? We did not negotiate the set-aside. Okay. So something. Science project. We've tried things out we've done things a little differently. We each week to week we might try something different. And then that doesn't show up something we were doing for a while was at the end of each episode asking was something you've changed your mind about. So Chris, as a year with pod. What's something you've changed your mind, I'm going to answer this? I saying the reason we stopped doing this stumps everyone because it's not like even if there are things change your mind about its you've convince yourself, you haven't in some ways, and so, always right? You are always in the like it's like because change your mind is a strange experience. And because like we like to sort of retrofit, narratives ourselves as kind of consistent whole, I think people have a hard time, like calling to mind like it is the case at all the change your mind about something, but the salience of it. Oh man. Jimmy, like like like a like a political position. I have a topic area or you mean like about, like podcasting like members of the staff I like most like what? The leader used to beat no top by. No. Just not even political stance. But something that you came in thinking that you had a perspective that you thought something in a specific way like I sort of changed my actions after Amazon the. Okay. So like something that changed my mind in terms of how I think about it from the podcast. Give the world. Yeah. I would say this. I think that the Amazon episode. Definitely change my behavior around, like was the most specific in terms of how, like, what you said, how it changed my behavior run Amazon, I think that the merriam Kaba episode was the one that I found most. Like I don't it's not like there was like a hundred eighty degrees over the course of the conversation. This is her sort of arguing for a vision of prison prisoner. Listen, but I just found the degree to which she had because she's had this conversation in many different venues along, like many different times, Theresa. She had thought through anticipated and was able to respond to the natural objections left me by the end of it feeling like this very radical vision was much more reasonable. And maybe like should be the explicit goal. And I think I thought just before I talked to her, like, I think, in terms of reorienting the way, I think about things that that was probably the one that kind of changed my mind the most I also felt challenged by Nicole Hannah Jones about school segregation. Yes. Really eye opening, and you're not a white parent with kids. I felt pinned to the seat, which I think, is the point. Honestly, like Nicole, I think is really good about that. Like the we, we make these individual you know that there's a social component to there's individual component about, like, what you do with your kids and where you send them to school. Was there an episode that? Solicited. The most surprising feedback where people were expediently responsive or sort of unsure, or you know what I had this. I was really worried about the David Wallace wells episode because like dark pitch it was dark. I felt like a little like I had a little kind of feel like I was like fighting a panic attack through a lot of the conversation. And I was like a little worried, and I don't know if we talked about the because before, but, like the week that came out we switch platforms. And so I sent you this like terrified because I saw I checked, the metrics and it like no one had downloaded it and I was like, oh my God. It just we bought at bombed. No emails. We want. Six out loads. So that one, I was like, really pleasantly surprised by people's appetite for that. And that relates to another thing that I really like about this. The podcast is up like they're just more room for risk and failure partly because we don't do it live. Like just there's no safety net live. And if like something doesn't work out, live, and, you know, one point eight million people are watching it just like real brutal. But if something doesn't work out in the studio like we can cut it down, or we can just like not era and it's fine or we can put it up and like, maybe doesn't give them any downloads as the last week. But, like that's okay too. Just the pressure, the, the amount of downside risk that stocks, you when you're running, the Hiwa rack that is alive television program, just means that, like, the, the latitude for risk taking and experimentation is just like waste Mahler. What are some things you want to do in nineteen? I want to do more live shows, I'd like to do some more, we've basically the only. Politician. We've done is we've done too. So we done John Kerry, Abrahams both of which I thought were great. But both of which were people who are politicians who are at least in the moment, like out of politics. John Carey is essentially retired Stacey rooms was when we talked to her was not running for anything and I think that always creates a more spate like sort of compati- ability to self reflect even the getting Junkers reflect kinda difficult. But. I'm interested to see whether we can do that with actual like current sitting politicians if there's a place to get to that place with them, and even like presidential candidates both of which are things I'd like to this year. Yet, something we talked about, is trying to collate up sewed that are about a lot of things you're gonna hear going into twenty twenty we already have some Medicare for all with dual Siad is something that is already being talked about a lot criminal Justice reform. We have a couple of episodes with crasner Miriam, Kaba, Sosa more of those sort of primers of buzzwords that, you're you're going to be hearing. Let's see what should I end on. Fair producer. Chris. This from listen champ, teach. Tiffany. See see, by the way, that's did you get Simpson's joke to know that we this is a real generational divide. I know it's tough, it's, it's real and I remember when my parents or like other people used to make like happy days. References or whatever, and I was just like I don't get what are you talking about? We make a lot of Simpson's references, even though the show has been on the forever just like doesn't have the same kind of cultural import to people of your tender age than it does two old folks like myself. But anyway, there's, there's a moment when in the I think it's the vegetarian episode where the principal Skinner comes in, and he goes, a certain student raisin objection, Lisa s no, that's too obvious. L simpson. Sam there with you. Now, my dad's going to be so embarrassed. I didn't get this center. Is going to be so hurt broken. Okay. So this is where I'm gonna end it might be a little dark in the last reported, you said, maybe I'll do a one hour, solo podcast contemplating buying Zayed's mortality and shockingly, lots of people in doing many people were in one thing, that I would like to do more of one of the things that I think, is interesting about the form. I do think like their space for us to have some conversations that are, like, not really about really anything having to do with public policy or politics and are about just like our inner lives or our spiritual life for, like, like I would like to talk to people that are trying to think through the big questions of what are, what the point of existences, what are we doing here on the planet? Like, how do you think about? Yeah. How do you think about, like what you're supposed to do on this earth? And what it all means and I think that like I've been sort of having some time spent thinking about that. I think partly because I've just just turned forty and I have three kids and. I don't I don't have a specific I was raised as a Catholic, but I don't have a specific faith right now, our faith tradition. I follow. So I do think that like their space to have sort of conversations about things like love or about friendship or about our place in the universe in this format that are not interested. You can't do other places but I definitely would like to pursue a not sure I'm gonna give people the of one hour meditation. We're tally. Although I did suggest someone did suggest Michael Paulin book about sort of psychedelic drugs, and that and people wrestling with those questions and microdosing, and I've got a whole, I've got a few friends that are real, they're, they're really into like the combination, microdosing and meditation jujitsu and get them on the podcast. That's like a whole scene. Cool. Timmy champion. It's great to have you back. Everybody give around with laws to champion. And yeah, we're, we're psyched. One one year down in, you know, just as like how many more to go. I don't know. Thanks to member. Thanks to Brennan, McDonald Brennan, Amelia. All of the tax help us in here, Louisa Giral, thanks to Meredith. Thanks to Meghan. Thanks to every like it's a it's a tight team. But but we've put some. Does the booking? Shame s Europe. Braun. All right with pod. Why is this happening is, where's the this is the part where I hadn't? Why is this happening? Presented by MSNBC NBC news. Produced by the pollen team and featured music by Cooper. See more of our work, including links to things we mentioned here by going NBC news dot com slash wise. Hey guys, Willie Geist here. Be sure to check out this week's episode of the Sunday sit down podcast. It's a special one, I get together with David Letterman to talk about life after late night television. Get it now for free wherever you download your podcasts.

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Mueller's Headed to Capitol Hill

The Point with Chris Cillizza

02:39 min | 1 year ago

Mueller's Headed to Capitol Hill

"Tired of spending hundreds of dollars prescription glasses visits any today at Xeni dot com slash CNN. Welcome to the point for June twenty-sixth. I'm learned to ski co author of the point I'm here to cut through the political spin to bring you the news you need to know. Democrats are getting their wish Robert Muller has agreed to testify on Capitol Hill on July seventeenth to be specific about his investigation into Russian meddling in the two thousand sixteen election, the House Judiciary and intelligence committees announced late Tuesday that Muller had agreed to testify after they issued subpoenas for his testimony and molar would appear in public before the two panels next month. House intelligence chairman Adam Schiff on Tuesday said, Moeller is deeply reluctant to come testify, but he has to respect the subpoenas. This is setting up. What is about to be an absolute circus on Capitol Hill? If you thought the Brett Cavanaugh, or Michael Kohn testimonies would be a big deal. This is about to Warf that Muller's turn behind the microphone represents the most intimated testimony that congress has. Seen in years. So what is Muller actually going to say? Of course, we can't actually see into the future. We don't truly know what the former special counsel will say behind the microphone, but as he said, in his very brief and only public remarks just before stepping down from the Justice department quote, the report is my testimony. I would not provide information beyond that which is already public in any appearance before congress, and quote that, of course, is not going to stop members of either committee from asking questions beyond the Mola report Democrats, want to press him on aspects of the report like punting on impeachment to congress, arguing that the American people can hear directly from the special counsel, any public setting for Republicans will also look to get something from Muller's testimony for them. Muller's appearance offers them a chance to press the special counsel about concerns with the origins of counterintelligence, investigations into the president's team and also pressure Democrats to drop their own investigations into the president, which brings us to the point. We don't even know if Muller. Is going to answer these questions, but we have almost an entire month to speculate. And that's the point for June. Twenty six twenty nineteen thank you for listening for more updates throughout the week including our Sunday night campaign edition subscribing to the point newsletter at CNN dot com slash low point. If you like this audio briefing, you can get on Google or Amazon echo, or subscribe on Stitcher, or apple podcasts or your favorite podcast app. So you never miss an episode.

Robert Muller Democrats special counsel congress CNN Xeni dot Adam Schiff Brett Cavanaugh House Judiciary Moeller Michael Kohn chairman Google apple president Warf Amazon Justice department
AP Headline News Mar 06 2019 12:00 (EST)

AP Radio News

05:01 min | 2 years ago

AP Headline News Mar 06 2019 12:00 (EST)

"The iphone ten are is here at T mobile. And there's a whole lot of love like taking those perfect new year new you portrait mode selfish. You're going to share. It's the best way to stay connected to everyone you'll heart loest in twenty nine. So get ready to fall in love with by phone ten are on T mobile. The most loved and wireless. Call one eight hundred t mobile to learn more. Visit a store today. You deserve a current account. That isn't all take take take. That's why add on post we're doing party for thirty. Just open an easy to use current account with lodge thirty euro, I will give you another thirty euro for free to open a current account like Gibbs pop into your local post office today or search post current-account, terms and conditions apply. Offer ends March thirty first two thousand nineteen see smart account dot e for details on post is authorized by the minister for finance to provide payments services, and is regulated by the central Bank of ardent in the provision of such services. AP radio news. I'm Ed Donahue, homeland security secretary Kirsten Nielsen is on Capitol Hill explained to a house committee. Why President Trump declared a national emergency at the Mexico border? It projections are dire. The agency is now on track to appreciate more migrants crossing illegally in the first six months of this fiscal year than the entirety of f- lie. Seventeen until the lawmakers the crisis at the border was not manufactured for the four-time. President Trump's former personal attorney Michael Cohen is appearing before a congressional committee. This time it's behind closed doors, the AP saga megani reports. It's part of the growing investigations by Democrats into the president Cohen testified publicly last week. He neither sought nor would accept apart in from the president. But people familiar with the encounter say one of Cohen's lawyers did express interest to the Trump legal team in a pardon after an F B I radon Coen last spring. They say the president's lawyers were non. Uncommittal and no pardon. Was granted Michael Kohn was convicted of lying to congress R Kelly says he's done lots of things wrong when it comes to women. But he says he's apologized. He denies doing anything against their. Will he spoke to Gayle king on CBS this morning. People are going back to my pass. Okay. That's exactly what they want to go back to the past. And they trying to at all this stuff. Now Kelly is facing charges in Chicago. Timothy, and John John savage say they're twenty three year old daughter Jocelyn is being held by R Kelly against her will Jarrell Griggs is the family attorney. We are in a battle to make sure that she is not a victim to the allegations that we've heard and now the charges that we've heard against Roberts Avesta Kelly. A source tells the Associated Press wildlife officials plan to lift protections for gray wolves across the lower forty eight states a move certain to reignite the legal battle over predator. That's rebounding in some regions. This is AP radio news. The nation's trade gap jumped to a ten year, high President Trump's tariffs last year on foreign steel aluminum in Chinese products and the economic growth from the Trump administration's tax cuts appear to have increased America's dependence on imports. The Commerce Department says the twenty eighteen trade imbalance with six hundred twenty one billion dollars a ten year, high the gap between what the US cells, and what advise from other countries was just under sixty billion in December a nineteen percent increase from November when adjusted for inflation. That's the highest trade imbalance in American history. Mike Kemp in Washington. Yulon Musk's dream of an express tunnel transit system could finally become a reality in Las Vegas. There has been setbacks in other cities Las Vegas has a plan for a tunnel where autonomous electric vehicles would whisk people around a mega convention center. And me may eat, maybe even the casinos in Vegas and Donohue. AP radio. News. Sky diving business amazed. Yep. But you know, what else is amazing an iphone six s for just forty nine bucks. At metro really imagine streaming all the way down with that amazing camera. I've switching that smart. You know, what else is smart parachutes? Switch to metro and get an amazing iphone six s for only forty nine bucks metro t mobile phone offer requires port end of number not currently active on T mobile network are active on metro and past ninety days. See store for details and terms and conditions sky, dining business, amazing. Yeah. But you know, what else is amazing an iphone six s purchase forty nine bucks at metro. Really? Imagine streaming all the way down with that amazing Cameron. I've switching that smart. You know, what else is smart parachutes? Switch to metro and get an amazing iphone six s for only forty nine bucks. Metro T mobile phone requires port of number not currently on T mobile network active on metro and past ninety days. See store for details and terms and conditions.

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Standing by for Michael Cohen to emerge from House Intel hearing; Cohen speaks to reporters after House Intel testimony; Homeland Security Chief warns of a "humanitarian catastrophe" at border; defends family separations

The Situation Room with Wolf Blitzer

53:07 min | 2 years ago

Standing by for Michael Cohen to emerge from House Intel hearing; Cohen speaks to reporters after House Intel testimony; Homeland Security Chief warns of a "humanitarian catastrophe" at border; defends family separations

"Tired of spending hundreds of dollars for prescription glasses. Xeni offers thousands of affordable. Eyewear styles starting at just six ninety five. No ridiculous markups. No hassles. Just quality affordable. I wear delivered right to you visits. Any today at Xeni dot com slash CNN. This is CNN breaking news. We're following breaking news. I'm wolf Blitzer. The situation room we're standing by for President Trump's former lawyer and fixer Michael Cohen to emerge from an hour's long closed door house intelligence committee hearing CNN has learned that Cohen provided new documents showing at it's to the false statement. He delivered the congress back at twenty seventeen about the Trump Tower Moscow project, he claims another Trump lawyer made the changes to that statement. Let's go straight to Capitol Hill. Our senior congressional correspondent maharajas outside this closed door hearing mono Michael Cohen, provided the intelligence committee with this new information. What are you learning about the changes that were revealed in these documents? Yeah, we'll hear from Michael Kahn probably moment terribly wolf, his attorneys just left this closed door session. We expected to make comments we'll see how much detail he provides. The we have learned from multiple sources that Cohen provided. This committee would documents showing that statements that he made false statements to this committee in the Senate intelligence committee back in two thousand seventeen had edits and this came after he alleged in a public setting last week that the presence are Turney had changed his statements that he made to congress later to turn out to be false. And he pleaded guilty to lying about the Trump organization pursuit of the Trump Tower Moscow project back in twenty seventeen he said that at the time that the discussions ended in January twenty sixteen but then he laid knowledge through June twenty sixteen later knowledged that then candidate Trump played a larger role than what he testified to previously. Now, we've been told these documents shows give further explanation about why he made that allegation in a public setting. We don't know exactly what those edits say. And all we're hearing from Tump lawyers who are still pushing back at Coen's testimony last week. They contended to those road. It was a false statement made. By Michael Cohen said that the Trump attorneys edited the duration the timeframe that they discussed the Trump Tower Moscow project was there still standing by that denial, but these documents have been a source of discussion today behind closed doors will see here wolf and matter of minutes on Michael calling comes out if he decides to discuss anybody said privately, and we'll see you here potentially from Adam Schiff, the house intelligence committee chairman he would not comment about this earlier today. We'll see if they decide to say anything about where they stand right now the second day of testimony before this very committee and the fourth time he's been on Capitol Hill in the last week and a half. Do you believe that Cohen also face questions behind closed doors mono about whether he actually discussed a possible, pardon with the president's lawyers? Yeah, I've been told that this has been a subject of conversation through the course of today the extent to which there were discussions about pardons after Michael Cohen's properties were Ray. Rated back in two thousand seventeen at that time. It was unclear what rated in twenty eight years say at that time it was unclear whether or not Michael Cohen was going to cooperate with investigators or still stand by this president the question that Democrats have in particular is whether the president moved in any way to essentially convince my goal Cohen not to cooperate with investigators by suggesting there could be a pardon. Whether there were discussions of the the attorneys to have those about a possible. Pardon Republicans can have raised concerns that Michael call may not have been truthful in his house oversight committee testimony when he said he did not personally seek apart. And there have been reports about cones lawyers discussing pardons with other the president's attorneys so that is also been a line of questioning going forward. We'll see how much more light he sheds on that. But those two topics about the Trump Tower Moscow project pursuit as well. As discussions. The president may have had with Michael Cohen. After the raid all subjects have conversations behind closed doors, as you say, we expect the Michael to make a statement once he emerges from that room. And we also expect the committee chairman Adam Schiff to make a statement as well, maybe answer reporter's questions, we'll stand by for that. I wanna I wanna bring in our senior Justice correspondent Evan Perez. Evan Cohen, as we know he lied to the committee before he's about to begin two months from today a three year prison sentence of part for lying under oath before congress. What evidence did he bring today potentially that could back up his assertions? Well, we'll according to the reporting from mono and our team on Capitol Hill. He brought the documents and the documents he says show, the edits that were made by particular lawyers. Now, if you listen to the president's lawyers, they say that there were obviously some conversations between the lawyers, Michael Collins, lawyers, and the president's lawyers discussing his testimony. Money. If you remember the president's lawyers said that the only thing they had records of discussions of the Moscow tower project through January of twenty seven twenty sixteen. It emerged later on obviously those discussions extended much much later. And so the question has been who made those edits were they substantial edits that seems to be the point of disagreement right now, we know that Michael Cohen talked a little bit about this on the hill that we I think we have that sound bite. Could we if we could if we could play that now? You need to know that Mr. Trump's personal lawyers reviewed and edited my statement to congress about the timing of the Moscow tower negotiations before I gave it it was to trade clear to me to his personal statements to me that we both knew to be false and through his lies to the country that he wanted me to lie, and he made it clear to me because his personal attorneys reviewed my statement before I gave it to congress. And will we obviously talked to the president's lawyers. Jay, secular in particular, who is one of the lawyers that Michael Cohen talked about in his testimony last week. And secular said in a statement last week, they say they stand by the statement, they quote, the testimony of Michael Cohen the attorneys for the president edited or changed his statement, the congress to alter the duration of the Trump Tower Moscow negotiations is completely false again. They're sticking by this previous statement will. So it's going to be. I guess a test to see whether or not members of congress believe Michael Cohen today, and whatever documents he's producing to show those edits, and whether or not they believe those edits, those those changes were substantial and essentially helped Michael Cohen tell a lie to congress. When we which of course, Michael Cohen has now admitted to Michael Cohen says he knew it was alive when he made those statements, but he was honoring his commitment to Donald Trump. And he keeps talking about lawyers. Not just a lawyer j secular. He keeps mentioning lawyers could those lawyers be in trouble. If they knew what they were editing. What they were changing in a statement was false. Well, yeah. I mean, if you know that someone is lying, and you help them knowingly help them make that lie. Tell that lied to congress. Then you could also be in trouble wolf, and I think that's where this is going to fall is the issue of whether or not you believe Michael Cohen, whether or not there's any way to prove who made those those changes to the documents. I assume the Michael. Owen and his and his legal team believed that they have documentation to show who may have made the changes to the to the documents, obviously that would be a big deal if the president's own lawyers in this case Abbe Lowell who represents Jared and Evonne who was part of this this conversation, and who allegedly made some of these changes, according to Michael Cohen, whether those people end up being in trouble, I think it's going to be up to the Democrats on the hill to see whether they want to hear from those people in the coming weeks, the whole notion of whether or not a pardon was discussed between Michael Cohen's, lawyers of the president's lawyers at a time. When Michael his office is oh, tell room his home had just been raided by the FBI, the president was angry about that. And supposedly shortly thereafter, there were some conversations about a possible. Pardon right. Look, I mean, I think this is the fascinating part of this of this discussion of this investigation. The question is is. Someone who broke the law here that the president or his attorneys or anyone else break the law by having this discussion, look what we know is that the president obviously has plenary power over over pardons. That's his power. And so what is unusual here is obviously for the president to be a subject of an investigation. Right. That's not usually part of the discussion. So what you talk to the president's lawyers and people around him. They say it's there's nothing wrong for the president to be having a discussion about a potential pardon. And that this is this is just the Democrats trying to create a crime where there isn't one. We don't know. We'll where prosecutors in New York are on this Michael Cohen seems to be suggesting that there is an investigation into southern district of New York that is looking into this. We know the Democrats are very very much interested. But I think the question of whether or not it's inappropriate for the president to have a conversation like this. I think it's very much up in the air. And I think we're going to have to see whether there's more facts that are brought out that. Show. The president violated any kind of law here. I want to go back to monitor standing by waiting to see Michael Cohen emerged from that closed door hearing with the house intelligence committee. And also the chairman Adam Schiff he's expected to emerge. Make a statement and answer reporters questions all this happening Amman who has the New York Times has reported on six checks the president signed a while while president of the United States for Michael Kohn. We're showing our viewers those six checks right there. Tell us why this is significant. Yeah, you'll recall it that testimony before the house oversight committee last week. He the Michael Cohen provided one of those signed checks from August of twenty seventeen of course, after the president was sworn in to office when he's been president for several months showing that the president, and Michael Cohen's words was engage in this criminal conspiracy to involving this high sch- money payments, keeping quiet these allegations of affairs that were about to come out right before the elections. He tried to make the case the president was. Involved sign at least one of those checks that we saw last week from his own personal Bank account. The New York Times got its hands on several other. Check six check saying showing to the president was more deeply involved, then he has certainly led on personally and that essentially backs up what Michael Cohen had been alleging in his testimony. Now, this is going to be one big focus of preps this committee meeting right now with Michael Cohen is finishing up. It's it's it's discussion of the house intelligence committee, but I can tell you the House Judiciary committee, the house oversight committee. Both those two panels want to make this one key aspect of their investigation going forward as earlier this week when Jerry Nadler, the House Judiciary committee, chairman sent a letters through to Eighty-one people connected with the Trump world. He also was focused on trying to get information about this these hush money payments that were going on including from David pecker. Who was the parent the head of the parent. Company of National Enquirer, which is of course, was engaged in so called catch to kill scheme to silence at least one of those stories involving the president and his alleged affair with former model. Karen, McDougal all those matters are bound to be part of the investigation by Democrats and other committees. We'll see how much they discuss of that here. They had their hands full dealing with all the rush of questions today. But that questions those questions still bound to consume what Democrats want to look for going ahead. We'll see how much cooperation they get and get any getting any new documents that they've been asking for particularly from some of those people who've been involved in this highly hush money payments and cooling, potentially. The president's eldest son down Trump junior whose name was signed at one of those checks that Michael Cohen provided last week. I'm going to have you standby motto Evanston by as well. We're waiting to see the witness in this particular case Michael Cohen emerge from that closed door hearing. We're told he will make a statement hiring his challenging, but there's one place you can go. Or hiring is simple, fast and smart that place ZipRecruiter with their powerful matching technology. Ziprecruiter scans thousands of resumes to find people with the right experience and invite them to apply to your job. Ziprecruiter is so affective that eighty percent of employers who post on recruiter get a quality candidate through the site within the first day and right now listeners can try ZipRecruiter for free at this exclusive web address ZipRecruiter dot com slash situation. That's ZipRecruiter dot com slash sl. Ziprecruiter, the smartest way to hire. Joining us now democratic Senator Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut. He's a member of the Senate Judiciary committee Senator thanks so much for joining us. Thank you. If I interrupt you'll understand that we want to hear what Michael Kohn has to say what congressman the chairman Adam Schiff asked to say, I'm sure you will understand. But let's talk about Michael cone for a moment. He claims the president made it clear to him. He was expected to lie under oath to congress about that Moscow Trump Tower deal and that his legal team reviewed and actually edited the statement ahead of time. Do you expect these documents to support that claim these documents certainly are expected to support it they provide cooperation Michael Kohn, obviously has some problems with his own credibility having lied to congress. And now he's explaining that lie and involving not only the presence, lawyers, but the president self in his contention that the president. By code by implicit encouragement led him to lie and the important point here is we're reaching a moment of reckoning for the lawyers who are normally protected by attorney client privilege, if there's a frog or a federal felony that privilege goes out the window and they're going to have answers. Now, they'll have to give to congressional committees, and perhaps to grand juries, what should congress do with this information? Congress has to hear from those lawyers. It has to review the documents because they provide essential corroboration. There is other corroboration like the checks that have been produced with Donald Trump's signature this statement about the timing of those checks while Donald Trump was actually in the Oval Office as president states. So the reliability of Michael cones testimony has been vastly bolstered by documents that he's now producing and others. That he may offer in the future. Could this evidence be used at a potential impeachment hearing? This evidence can be used in a potential criminal trial in potential impeachment proceeding in any proceeding where it can be offered with a chain of custody and other legal conditions and requirements that have to be imposed, but it is certainly usable in any legal proceeding. You're a former prosecutor hunting, you think the special counsel Robert Muller's team is handling this evidence. Robert Muller knows everything that Michael Kohn is telling to congress because he has very very comprehensively had Michael Kohn answer questions, and so Robert Muller's handling this evidence giving it the reliability deserves with great care close attention and using it and now it will be for congress as an oversight mechanism to establish that members of the president's team. May have gone encouraged suborn improper conduct indeed perjury before the United States Congress, which is a serious potential crime from a legal perspective. Senator does it really make? It doesn't matter that these edits were allegedly made by the president's lawyers and not the president himself. What needs to be established is what the president knew. And when he knew it, and what conversations took place between the president and his lawyers. But remember wolf, it's not only edits or changes. It's the MIR review of that testimony with knowledge that it is false. In other words, if they let Michael Kohn go ahead or encouraged him to give that testimony knowing it was false. They can be held responsible legally. It's not the editor changes or even the conversations with the president. But the president may be directly implicated if he knew simply if he knew that his lawyers were going to suborn free, you think members of the president's legal team as a result could be illegal jeopardy. They definitely could be legal jeopardy because there's no defense for lawyer to say, he was simply representing someone if he or she is suborning perjury. There's no attorney client privilege, there's no executive privilege, there's no privilege whatsoever. Nobody is above the law. What about these checks that Donald Trump President Trump as president reportedly signed to Michael Kohn he did? So while he was president that that's what the New York Times is reporting. What's your analysis? What's your reaction? When you see these six checks. The analysis has to be these checks are very very powerful cooperation, I didn't support circumstantial evidence that Donald Trump knew about the payment of hush money that he was involved in the potential fraud. Obviously, Michael cones testimony last week opened a pen Dora's box for Mr. Trump because it implicated him in potential Bank fraud and insurance fraud in New York, those matters under investigation by New York authorities and by potentially the seven district New York grand jury, but those checks further bolster. Michael Kohn at a time. When Republicans have no defense, they offered none except the potential lack of credibility for Michael cone. So overall, they fit into this mosaic pieces of a picture that coming together show that the walls are closing in on. From Senator as we await Michael Kohn to emerge from that room. We see a Capitol Hill. Police officer emerging are right there. I want to quickly get to some other important news that we're following CNN is learned the President Trump pressured White House staff to grant his daughter Ivanka security clearance over the objections of career professionals. What concerns if any does that raise for you for me that story is of equal concern to the Michael Kohn testimony because it is deeply dangerous and wrong for the president to overrule the security clearance professionals and his intelligence community that essentially said if Trump cannot be trusted with this top secret or classified information, there's a system in place that is there for a reason to protect the nation's security, and I actually raise these concerns more than six months ago. I ask. Jared Kushner's security clearance, be reviewed then a separate letter with a number of my colleagues asking that his interim security clearance be suspended because of his contacts with the Russians his financial dealings with others. His financial debts a number of red flags public, even then. And now, we know the president personally overruled his security clearance professionals with respected both Jared, Kushner, and Ivanka Trump, and I think there's a lesson here, which is the president's apparently vast majority over security clearance near needs to be constrained there. Need to be legal constraints on the presence security clearance powers to overrule his professionals, but he could trolls security clearance. He has the legal right to give anyone top secret security clearance. If he deems good point. And that's the reason why I think congress needs to. Begin an investigation of what happened here, and what can be done to prevent these kinds of dangers to our national security. Remember as you well know our intelligence professionals risk their lives to protect our nation. Those secrets that they gather, including our sources and methods or of tremendous value to our enemies and adversaries simply talking about them in the wrong place at the wrong time can imperil our nation security or our military men and women in harm's way, or others who are gathering that intelligence. So there are sweeping ramifications to overruling the intelligence community when it says the red flags here security clearance, should not be granted Senator Blumenthal. Thanks so much for joining us. Thank you wanna bring in our political and legal experts to assess all the breaking news. We're waiting Susan for Michael Kohn two birds from his closed door hearing. He's been there since what? Nine nine thirty this morning. The fourth time he's appeared before congressional committee three times behind closed doors once it opened session bef- before the house oversight committee. How significant is the new documentary evidence that he brought to the committee today? I think potentially is quite significant in part because Michael Cohen isn't somebody with a lot of personal credibility. He has a really significant allegation, right? Where he's basically said that the president was aware that he was going to submit false testimony to congress that the president encouraged him to do so not directly by having these lawyers edited and having him then send it to congress. And so I do think that it's significant that he is now proving, you know, look, these lawyers edited it and the edited in a particular way, and I can actually demonstrate precisely what they said and did, and so we still would need to know that the president was aware of the content of that statement, we would still need to know that by returning those edits the president or his lawyers intended to encourage Michael Cohen to actually. The testimony. I think it's a common sense conclusion, but we would still need to sort of establish it. So it's not all the way there. But I do think that what we're starting to see sort of meticulously building, the pieces of corroboration for Michael cons, really bombshell story because potentially could be obstruction of Justice. Is that what we're talking about? Yeah. So potentially as obstruction of Justice. So Michael Cohen said that the president did not direct not directly say I want you to light a congress. But suborning perjury. It doesn't require actually that direct direct command. Right. If the president was aware that Michael Cohen was making a full pairing false statement. And if he did anything to encourage Cohen to submit that to congress that is suborning perjury that is precisely the type of obstruction of Justice the resulted in Bill Clinton's impeachment. Oh, fill up to assume. The Robert Mueller the special counsel and his team. They know everything that's going on right now behind closed doors. There's a couple of basic questions you have here that I wish I knew that they know already. We're. Judge. What's going? Let me give you one. So we've got multiple checks here signed by the president United States. He didn't cut those checks. I assume somebody like Mr. Weisselberg that is the CFO of the Trump organization cut those checks if you're doing an investigation. Let me give you one question. Mr. Westerberg, why are there repeated checks for thirty five thousand dollars, and he's going to tell you those checks are or are not to pay off a porn star to keep her quiet. So we can speculate speculate about this the special counsel knows this. All right. Let me give you another specific example, let's say there's an interview between j secular who allegedly interfered with the statement made by Michael Cohen an interview with the special counsel. And he says I never had anything to do with statements bay by made by the special by by Michael Cohen. And now you find out there's an edited version of a document that suggested J secular lied. That's a problem. So what I'm saying is I think the special counsel has a lot of evidence. We don't know that takes us one way or the other guilty or not go in the special counsel. Knowing it and having it is one thing the new house majority, which may or may not be building a case toward impeachment. Obviously that would be the most extreme decision that they make and the shorter term building a case for what they consider basic oversight. That has been lacking is something quite different. The other thing is that it's still unclear even if Robert Muller has his information, which hard to imagine not congress would get it. Because we're not sure what's going to happen with the mullahs report. With regard to how it's written. But also all of the materials that went into his investigation, whether anybody in congress would see it. So they believe that this is they're not just the right? But they're obligated to get bigger Muller would submit the report to the new attorney general Bill Barham this up to Bill bar to decide what to make public from that report. But the difference that data's pointing out between the impeachment lane. And the Muller lane is is very important because the White House in the president's lawyers have been making an argument that the president didn't break the law technically that he didn't do anything wrong. According to the sort of the ink on the paper the letter of the law, and that may or may not be true. I think that's not going to be educated in congress. But what is is going to be whether the president is actually believable. And I think that there's a lot of evidence right now that he is not and that even if people don't know whether or not he actually broke the law by encouraging Michael Cohen to lie to congress or doing any other thing there. Could be this perception that is that is that is what out there by all these questions being raised that the president is involved in a elaborate scheme of deception, and I think that's problematic politically it may or may not lead to impeachment. But it certainly grist for the mill for that process as it goes forward in the next two years. The Justice department guidelines are Susan that you can indict a sitting president, but there's no such guidelines for the house of representatives to begin impeachment proceedings if they want to do so you could begin impeachment proceedings for a sitting president, right? Exactly. So the name of the game. Here was always going to be impeachment now, ordinarily congress doesn't consider impeachment unless they believe the president has broken the law when if we've seen historical impeachment that said whenever they're deciding if the president broke the law, they aren't trying to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt in court they're trying to determine for their own purposes. Whether or not the law was broken. So I do think what we're we're going to see what this new house is sort of more muscular oversight that. We see right now. The president's lawyers attempting to use them sleight of hand. Right. They're saying Michael Cohen. We didn't we deny that we edited this statement to change the duration of the Trump Tower Moscow negotiations now that's not what Michael Cohen accused them of Hugh, cues them of editing, the document in which he lied about the duration of that. And so any kind of involvement whether or not they inserted a life substantively or not the mere fact that they were aware that the president's former attorney had drafted a false statement that he had to submit under oath that involvement is enough to meet I think the the common sense sort of threshold that congress has going to be deciding whether or not they think it could be proven in a court of law. What's congress going to do these lawmakers? What are they going to do with this new evidence that Michael brought to the house intelligence committee hearing today? Well, exactly what we're talking about potentially build the case. There's Michael Cohen or comes by cocoon. Let's listen to see if he stops. The hearings went very very well. I believe that all of the members were satisfied with the statements and the responses that I gave to them. I told them that any additional information that they would want they should feel comfortable to reach out to my counsel. And I would continue to cooperate to the fullest extent of my capabilities to thank you very much for being. Thanks. Michael Kohn, Dan, he's making a reef statement. This supposedly was his last formal appearance before a congressional committee to two months from today's supposed to begin a three year prison sentence. That's right. And what he just said there is a reminder that what happened last week with his initial testimony up behind closed, doors and more importantly for the public grist as you mentioned the public hearing that he sent a set congress out on so many different threads investigative threads to go down. And what he endured. The whole time from Republicans was we'll wait a minute, you're not credible. And you know, they have a point in that he is going to to jail in part because he lied to congress. So what he's coming? He's still talking. Everything went very, well, I believe that they're happy with my responses was very it's been a long day. It's been a long couple of days. But again, I believe they're happy. I have given them my assurance that any additional information that they need I'm here to cooperate and we'll continue to cooperate. So thank you very much. Followed by his lawyer. Lanny Davis emerging a second block of reporters waiting up on Capitol Hill together. Well, I said the the lawmakers were satisfied. Now, he says, they're happy. This is an extensive process that everyone is going to be going through right now, especially White House officials who are watching this. So so carefully. I noticed that Michael content. Everyone was satisfied. I doubt everyone that fight their Republicans on that committee who are not particularly happy with him. And and yes, the White House is going to be not only scrutinizing what he said last week. But you know, talking to the members that their close to you on the committee about what they need to be aware of going forward. But it's been interesting to see the White House not really getting into the nitty gritty details on this. They are not disputing the facts of what happened on what might not have happened. And that's very telling they're going after Michael Cohen has a person they're trying to attack his credibility as as a person, the president is is pointing people to this book manuscript and he tried to peddle over a year ago, but they're not dealing with the substance, and that can be a problem for them. Because we've. Discussing Michael Cohen through a lot of things out there. And it's enough really to fuel several committees for many many months to come with oversight. Which is why coming back with what he says is evidence to back up some of things that he was talking about last week is really critical because of the kind of witness that we all know is that congress knows he is. But also, given all of the different elements of investigatory pursuits that Democrats who run the house already are taking running with never mind. What we know that they're working on you expect the committee chairman house intelligence, Adam Schiff to emerge momentarily also Vegas statement that answer reporters questions. We'll see what the we'll see what he has to say. So where do you think this is heading I think Dennis absolutely, right, right? Congress's now often a million different investigative threads. And we're gonna see where we wind up. You know, I think one thing it's important to sort of take a step back and realize that this is incredibly significant moment, the president's form of personal where someone who was very much on the inner circle as sat down under oath after already having been sentenced to three years in prison. The person on your stands better than just about anyone the consequences of wind to congress and accuse the president of committing multiple crimes while he was president of the United States. So what we've seen that the house of representatives has tried to be very very restrained. Nancy Pelosi has really not wanted to get over their skis in terms of the the talk of involvement at some point. They are going to have enough evidence before them that they're gonna have to make a decision about whether or not this is an individual who is fit to continue to serve as the president of the United States, and whether or not we do need to. Toward them. Each thing. Today was the bar six. He was supposed to begin his three year prison sentence. But that was delayed for two months in part because he had shoulder surgery recuperate, but also in part because of the the hearings up on Capitol Hill and everybody is happy and satisfied for a guy who is who has lied in almost every testimony had before last week. If any congressmen comes out and says, they're happier satisfied. Let me play. Wolf blitzer? Let's go. Let's talk. Let me have let me give you one. Specific example, he talks about the payments. Stormy Daniels, and he lays out documents as should because nobody should trust the guy one question for congress. And this is why we trust Muller, and we don't trust congress ballers gonna talk to one hundred witnesses and congress is going to talk to one and say he gave us a story we liked so we'll listen one question did you subpoena? The chief financial officer. Did he speak to you from the Trump organization and explain why he cut those checks mentioned a moment earlier if they walk out and say, they're sad. Disfie- after a man who's a perpetual liar spoke before him. I want to say that's why I don't trust the process. That's why trust. I don't believe these guys. It's really important point about the process here, the Democrats have to threaten needle they cannot just simply take Michael cones word just because right at this moment, it's convenient. If they're not laying out a process that seems to be thorough and seems to be actually seeking information and not just trying to make political points. They're gonna lose public trust as well. The Muller investigation went on for as long as it did. And and trust in the Muller investigation even eroded over time as the president continued to attack it. So there is risk here for Democrats, and they have to try very careful other committees down in the house, they're seeking evidence statements emails records from Eighty-one individuals and entities, including Ellen Weisselberg. The chief financial officer for some forty years of the Trump organization. That's right. And the question is whether or not they're going to be able to get the answer to that legitimate question important question to fill put out. Which is what about all the other players who are less inclined to talk than Michael Cohen. They subpoenaed. This information interviews documents. What have you doesn't mean? They're going to get them. There could be an probably will be a lot of court fights that will go down the road with a lot of these individuals, probably including maybe even especially Trump organization that is and always has been the president's red line. And he's going to the people who work there understand that they're going to have to go kicking and screaming to giving information over to calm Muller. Maybe one thing congress, maybe another at some point they're going to release the transcripts, according to the chairman of this committee of what he said Michael Cohen behind closed doors that'll be fascinating reading split seven eight nine hours of closed door testimony. Right. So once again, I think I don't know that Cohen is likely to have revealed new information, right? He's told his story pretty. Publicly at this point at this point in the name of the game is all about corroborating. What can he prove what can investigators actually identified to Phil's point? I think it's important that we understand that Muller has a different job than congress Muller's job is to investigate to find any criminal behavior. And to see if any individuals should be charged with specific crimes that's not only as he limited in his sort of his subject matter mandate, the actual job. He's doing a more limited job. Congress has a completely different responsibility. Before them. They have a much larger set of primes potential crimes or inappropriate behavior that they have to investigate. And they of course are now. The chairman of the house intelligence committee. Good evening just wanted to make a brief statement about Mr. Cohen's testimony today. We had a very long day with Mr. Cohen. This was the second day before our committee. He answered every question that was put to him by members of both parties, he was fully cooperative with the committee. We had requested documents Mr. Cohen, he has provided additional documents to the committee. There may be additional documents that he still has to offer and his cooperation with our committee continues. So I think the members found it enormously productive session, and we're very grateful for the time. It went on obviously a lot longer than -ticipant. We expected we'd have one day of testimony. But there was more than enough questions for him to last well through a second day. So again very productive day. We will. Fill you in on further witnesses and testimony that we anticipate, but. Too long hard days. And again, we appreciate very much cooperation. Thank you. Perjury. And we're clearly Adam Schiff by down a very pleased by what what you heard today the second day of testimony behind closed doors from Michael Cohen said several times very very productive day productive day. But. Fell made an important point earlier. Look, these are still partisan politicians. They just are. And so the question is whether or not he comes out and says that presumably the top Republican, we'll say something quite different. And at the end of the day in order to have a really credible process. The facts are gonna have to speak for themselves. He's not ready to give the facts yet. But the facts have to have to speak for themselves, and you know, it would be wonderful another sound super pollyanna, but it would be wonderful. If these political figures could find a way to come together and do this in a way that would give the American people more satisfaction that there is credibility, and it's not just a partisan investigation, depending on where you stand. That's where you said, well, let's keep in mind for the past two years sort of shifts partners on the other side of the aisle, apposite Lapsley, everything they can. To avoid investigating these actions instead of trying to divert attention to investigating the FBI the Hilary Clinton Email investigation. And so now really for the first time we're seeing we're seeing the congressional investigations which may have formerly existed for two years at this point. They really are in a meaningful sense only a couple months and weeks old. And so I think what we're seeing now is the these these members that have spent so long feeling very very frustrated about not being able to pursue those leads not being able to get answers part of their satisfaction. Certainly isn't the substance of finding out what you know. You know sort of potential wrongdoing. But instead sort of finally actually being able to to get answers and hopefully produce them to the American people. I'm sure if is the chairman of this committee, Devin Nunes is not the chairman of the committee. I mean, more of the Republican as a result. There's a whole new game in town. Hey, your confidence is important and sometimes one change can make all the difference hair. Club knows this and they're inviting you to become part of the hair club family to see how getting the most out of your hair can change your life. They understand the emotions you're feeling and know the questions you have hair club is leader in total hair solutions with a legacy of success for over forty years. See for yourself, just how powerful great hair can be. You know, men struggle with their loss and hair club is a solution. Go to hair club dot com slash TBN today for a free hair analysis and a free take haircare kit all valued at over three hundred dollars. That's hair club dot com slash TBN. For a free hair analysis and free haircare kid hair club dot com slash TBN. Your hair and your life at its best only with air club. I'm certain you'll love the club maharaja. You're there oxide that committee hearing. What are you seeing? What are you hearing? Yeah. Adam Schiff coming out just moments ago, not taking any questions, but making it pretty clear that he's been satisfied with these two days of tests closed door testimony with Michael Cohen saying that he expects additional cooperation from Cohen going forward. They say he acknowledged getting a new documents today from Cohen said that he expects additional documents going forward. He would not respond to any questions, which is unusual. Usually does take a questions, but I would ask if he had any concerns about the president attorneys role in the editing of the statement that later turn out to be falls to the same committee back in two thousand seventeen we do know, of course, now that there were those edited documents provided to this committee, which they went over in great detail today, I'm told through the course of the day's session question is whether or not shift or. That's believe there's anything wrong with what they saw what they believe any action needs to be taken or the need to investigate that further. There's been some shift wanted to look into heading into today's session. He would not respond to that. So we'll see what he ultimately decides to say they do say they plan to release a transcript of today's closed door session and last week's closure obsession that could take several weeks to get to. But we also do know wolf that. There was substantial discussion today about any decision about discussion about pardons. After Michael Cohen properties were raided by the FBI last year, and whether the president move it any way to do that whether Cohen sought a pardon even though he said last week, he did not and his open testimony. Those are the questions that members pursued. I tried to ask Cohen if the president offered him apart and cone did not take any questions and said that he will continue cooperating. So we'll see how much more information he has to give this committee before he has to report to jail and a couple of months, but the word from Democrats feel pretty good. But what they've heard behind closed doors. It's interesting that Adam Schiff, the chairman of the committee is said he will have announcements about further witnesses further hearings down the road. He didn't mention Felix Seder originally was supposed to be testifying open session before the house intelligence committee next week. There's some rumors out there that may be delayed. Is that what you're hearing? Yeah. I there's some some discussion that that's possible that it could happen at a later date. We don't have that confirmed at the moment. But we do think that's a possibility. Oftentimes, these witness interviews do get rescheduled off from time to time for various reasons. Even Michael Cohen was supposed to come before this very committee early in early February that got delayed to late February. And then of course, his second testimony today that's possible with Felix sater's next week. It's possible with other witnesses going forward, but it's taking some time to schedule these witness hearings schedule, which ones they want to have in the open which one they have in a private which ones will refuse to come to the committee was what force a subpoena fight. So this investigation. All the Democrats want to move pretty rapidly. It takes a lot of time to pursue these targets. So we'll see how quickly they can move whether they can schedule. These witness interviews anytime soon, and how many of them will ultimately be in public setting a good point about him. I want you to stand by your collecting more information. We're going to be speaking shortly with a member of the house intelligence committee democratic congressman Jim Himes. He's going to be joining us a very soon. Much more on all the breaking news right after this. Tired of spending hundreds of dollars for prescription glasses. Our friends at Xeni optical, operate huge variety of high quality stylish frames and state of the art optics starting at just six ninety five. You can get multiple frames with this great pricing for less than one pair. Elsewhere start building your eyewear wardrobe from the comfort of your own home at Xeni dot com. With the latest trends in eyewear available in hundreds of frame styles and materials there isn't a better way to change it up for every season. Plus is any offers prescription sunglasses at incredible prices. Visit Xeni today at Xeni dot com slash CNN. That's z dot com slash CNN. Following breaking news after Michael Cohen, wrapped up another day before the house intelligence committee. The committee chairman, and I'm shift called Coen's testimony. Very productive also up on Capitol Hill today, the homeland security secretary cures to Nielsen Warren lawmakers there's a humanitarian crisis along the border with Mexico. She also repeatedly defended the Trump administration's treatment of the thousands of migrants seeking asylum here in the United States. Let's go to our Justice. Correspondent Jessica Schneider. Jessica House Democrats. They grilled secretary meals over the administration's child separation policy, even calling her at one point a liar. What's the latest did call her a liar wolf, and they also hammered into her on a number of issues, including the asylum policy. Also, the zero tolerance policy that resulted in those children being separated from their parents last summer causing some chaos at the southern border. Democrats also grilled into secretary Nielsen as to whether or not President Trump's emergency declaration. To build the build the wall of the southern border was really warranted secretary. Nielsen said it was she defended the president. And then she also reiterated the administration's stance that this is not a manufactured crisis. She says that it is a true emergency. And then she gave the numbers that she says proves it. She says that if these numbers stand track through the end of the year, we're looking at about nine hundred thousand immigrants crossing illegally over the southern border. Those of the numbers that cures to Nielsen gave. But Democrats kept going back to the Trump administration policies and just hammering into her about how exactly they were executed. Yes. Or no, we still putting children in cages to my knowledge. Cbp never purposely put a child in a cage. Purposely, whatever. Pudding children in cages as of today shelter during process at the border facility stations that you've been at some of of scene crazies. I just want you to admit that the cages exist any asylum seeker who comes to a port of entry. You you base your claim? Okay. Well, let me tell you ma'am, secretary either you're lying to this committee, or you don't know what's happening at the border. So some tough words from congresswoman there, she was referring to her recent trip to the border where she says she saw an asylum seeker turned away and wolf it is true that under the Trump administration, it has become more difficult for those asylum seekers. And that's because the administration is only processing a certain number of asylum claims every day wolf who she could be called to come back before the committee for more testimony. Well, she could be, you know, the committee itself said that they haven't gotten all the documents that they want from her, and they also pushed the point that this is the first time that she's Ben before the homeland security committee in nearly a year. So it's very possible. They could call her back, but they also want more documents explaining a lot of these policies and secretary Nielsen also couldn't give some of the numbers for for example. The unaccompanied children were still in detention that for sure will be something the committee wants as well wolf Joseph Schneider of on Capitol Hill. Thank you other news. We're following satellite. Pictures does suggest North Korea. Has resumed activity in an important missile facility. The discovery coming right on the heels of President Trump's walkout from his summit with Kim Jong Hoon. The president says he'd be very disappointed if that's the case C N as will Ripley is monitoring the latest developments joining us from Beijing. So what are you learning will? Well, the satellite launch site that we're talking about wolf one of North Korea's most visible facilities. The North Koreans. No, it is under the constant watch of spy satellites, which means whatever they're doing. They're right now, they want the US to see it. New satellite images show, North Korea appears to be restarting work at a key missile site. A site Kim Jong UN had pledged to shut down before leaving last week's failed summit in Vietnam. Empty-handed these images taken two days after the Hanoi summit. A South Korean lawmaker tells CNN spy agency NIS is seeing signs of restoration activity and increased vehicle movements at the so hey satellite launch facility in tone Chungui. They had set to dismantle the ability by August. They had already taken off to the walls and the roof it stayed this way for almost for several months until about February of this year. Then we started to see things move in. And by March second they had rebuilt the walls and South Korean intelligence now face in urgent question is Kim preparing to send a defiant message to the US and President Trump. Today. Mr. Trump warned Kim Jong on against a provocative move. I would be very very disappointed in chairman Kim. And I don't think I will be. But we'll see what happens. We'll take a look could it be fallout from what sources call a humiliating snub in Hanoi. President Trump abruptly walking out of talks even canceling a working lunch with Kim. A move sources say left the North Korean leader bewildered ordering his vice foreign minister to tell reporters he may have lost the will to negotiate. Are we going to see a renewal of past Kim family tactics, provocations missile tests? Nuclear tests, Kim signed a pledge to permanently close. So hey back in September work began to dismantle parts of the site used for missile engine testing and satellite launches like this one in two thousand twelve launches that openly defy UN Security Council resolutions, banning ICBM technology. What can you? Say to the world to prove that this is not a ballistic missile program in disguise when I visited North Korea's satellite control center in two thousand fifteen. Scientists told me their space program is not a threat to the US some analysts caution new activities. So hey, does not necessarily mean a launch is imminent. And I think if more of a political signal of frustration a reversal of decision on these unilateral competence building measures to US think tanks that monitor North Korea see work to rebuild. So he's launch pad and missile engine test. Stand began sometime in the last two and a half weeks. Some analysts wonder if Kim is trying to warn the US what could lie ahead if diplomacy. It's a dead end. And the failed diplomacy in Hanoi. May also be affecting Korea's relationships here in China. I've been chatting with sources in Beijing. Who say one of the reasons Kim Jong UN wanted to take a train trip through China was a potential meeting with Chinese president Xi Jinping after the summit, obviously that meeting didn't happen. Well, there's a lot of speculation that he returned to Pyongyang Kim Jong loon feeling that the president of the United States humiliated him by not even hope going forward that luncheon that had been scheduled and that was embarrassing to his own people. What are you hearing? That anti table was a symbol really of the wasted opportunity and humiliation that Kim Jong UN faced here in Hanoi wolf. And now he has to prove within his own country that he still has the power to try to stand up to President Trump a lot of people wondering if you really has what it takes will Ripley joining us from Beijing. Thanks very much coming up. Breaking news. Michael Cohen, emerges after a day behind closed doors with hustle delegates committee where he presented documents allegedly backing his claim that is false 2017. Testimony was edited by one of the president's lawyers. The democratic committee chairman calls the session enormously productive does Cohen anything left to off.

Michael Cohen president congress house intelligence committee chairman Michael Michael Kohn Adam Schiff Donald Trump congress Muller congress Trump Tower Moscow United States house oversight committee Trump perjury attorney Michael cone CNN
Back To That Again; NY Times: About That Threat; President's Tricky Relationship With The Truth; Pres. Trump Recommends Another Ally For Seat On Fed

Anderson Cooper 360

47:34 min | 2 years ago

Back To That Again; NY Times: About That Threat; President's Tricky Relationship With The Truth; Pres. Trump Recommends Another Ally For Seat On Fed

"Everyone. It's poppy Harlow on this week's episode of boss files one on one with Gwyneth Paltrow. But not as when it's a famous actress rather when the CEO she's built goop to a two hundred fifty million dollars business. But you tells me still feels like an impostor sometimes as CEO loss what she's learned from Disney, and why did you reach down to Amazon founder Jeff Bezos. Tired of spending hundreds of dollars for prescription glasses. Xeni offers thousands of affordable. Eyewear styles starting at just six ninety five. No ridiculous markups. No hassles. Just quality affordable. I wear delivered right to you visits. Any today at Xeni dot com slash CNN. Get anything. We have new information tonight on the story that we first reported last night in the New York Times, I broke sources familiar with the conversations telling us that several people in Robert Muller's team or frustrated about how turning general William bar, the nation's top law enforcement official characterized some the special counsels unreleased report they reportedly contend that his four-page summary glossed over potentially damaging information in the full report about the president's actions are Pamela Brown has new details on that. She's joins us just a minute or two. But first how the president and his supporters reacted to the story. And what they're saying. Once again about the Muller team. It's kind of a throwback to those thrilling days of yesteryear. When this was the official line about all things, Robert Muller. The problem with the Muller investigation is everybody's got massive conflicts is highly conflicted. In fact, Komi is like his best friend. Please people have the biggest conflicts of interest. I've ever seen going to thirteen angry Democrats I could go into conflict after God flick, but sadly missed the Muller is conflicted. Muller was not Senate confirmed because of all the conflicts they didn't wanna bring him before the Senate because he's very conflicted. He's conflicted. And I know that his best friend is call me who's the bad cop. He put thirteen highly conflicted, and you know, very angry. I am angry Democrats in so that was the president's and the ministrations line right up until attorney general bar put out his summary, which appeared to clear the president of criminally conspiring with Russians during the election, and according to bars take on the Miller report, also cleared him of obstruction of Justice, though. He also included Muller's language a not exonerating the president. Now that aside the White House quickly. Seized on the apparent positive outcome and their take on the molar team shifted pretty dramatically. It was a complete and total exoneration. I think everyone here and everyone frankly across America was happy. We had the full and fair and thorough investigation. Twenty five million dollars, plus tax payer dollars. Five hundred witnesses over a million documents this the molar investigation is the golden standard report. Could not have been better in said, no obstruction. No collusion. It could not have. I do see some people now trying to besmirch the integrity of director Muller attorney general bar that that is really rich. This the molar investigation is the gold standard. Well, they say all the glitters is actually the work of sneaky on ethical leakers. Actually, they don't all say that. But the prisoners attorney Rudy Giuliani. Sure does at least he did last night. Once the news story broke about the unhappiness with Barr from some the Muller team. And just like that everything old was new again. It makes the point that we've been making for two years despite all of the media reports about how holy and sanctimonious to mullet team is there are there are a bunch of sneaky unethical leakers, and they are rabid Democrats who hate the president of the United States, and I can't tell you how much false information they've leaked during the course of the investigation. How many people are going to be indicted that didn't get indicted? How many how many blockbusters were there starting with popadopoulos and ending with Cohen who turns out to be a serial liar. I mean, how could you have any confidence in this? Okay. So is no longer fan. That's keeping them honest. Robert Mueller is a Republican and yes, the number of the attorneys on his team have donate to Democrats in the past but Muller's, no rabid democrat. And as far as anyone can tell the amount of information leaked from the team true or false is zero much to reporters just may perhaps, but to mothers credit, they'll no doubt be arguments over the evidence, they gathered and how it should be interpreted or act and on. But there's really no reasonably that any game. Games were played in the course of the probe in any case. The mayor should know that consistency counts when establishing credibility, you can love or hate Robert Muller and his team. But if you want the public to trust your take on them, you can't love them one day and hate them, the next depending on what you think they're saying about you our Pamela Brown joins us now with her new reporting on the clash over Robert Muller report and William bar summary of it. What have you learned Pemelin? Well, we've learned a few things here that there is this clash between some of Robert Muller's investigators and the attorney Bill Barr more specifically about the letter that the attorney general gave to congress with those key findings of the Muller and best to Gatien. We have learned that some of the investigators Muller's team speaking to outside associates don't feel like he added adequately described the obstruction probe in particular and some of their findings that included derogatory information as you'll recall him that letter to congress the attorney general bleakly said that Muller's team found evidence on both sides. Of the issue and did say that Muller did not exonerate him. But that ultimately the attorney general was left to make the decision apparently Muller's investigators feel at that was not an accurate representation of some of their findings in the obstruction probe, and they've been expressing this frustration also that the attorney general has been able to shape the public perception of their findings, and as you just played many clips of the president his aides celebrating that he's been exonerated exonerated. Yes. It is true. The attorney general did clear him on obstruction. But Muller's team feels as though there is more there that wasn't represented to the public as you know, Anderson bar said or reporting is a bar did not consult with Muller or the investigators with those initial findings that he provided a congress and the public Anderson did did they expect more of what they delivered to bar to be in the memo that he released according to our sources. Yes that they wrote some. Maries of their findings that were included in the report. And they thought the more of that should be released to the public. Now, a source that we spoke with push back on this saying that the summaries contained sensitive information that would need to be scrubbed. And the Justice department released a statement saying that every single page in the report contained a note a flag that it contained potentially sensitive information that shouldn't go out to the public. And the Justice department also says it was never the deal part of the deal for Barda. Just summarize the findings. The Justice department said due to the intense public interest here bar wanted to as soon as possible provide the principal conclusions. And then as we know provide more when he could and he is going through the report now with putting reductions in conjunction with Robert Muller's teen to release to the public. So that's what the Justice department is saying about this. There are other frustrations Muller's team. Do we know? Yeah. We have learned that there were other frustrations just beyond the way that the this has been handled and that is the interviews. They haven't been able to get including with President Trump. But also, we've learned Anderson that the team never got a chance to sit down and interview, Don, jR, the president's son. Of course, Don, jR, was a key figure in all of this. He could have shed light on the Trump Tower meeting when the Russians offered dirt on Hillary Clinton. He could have shed light on the Air Force One statement that was misleading that was a key part of the obstruction probe. He did as we know testified several committees and presumably Robert Muller seem had access to those transcripts, but he never had a chance to sit down with him. And that has been a source of frustration for the team as well. We should note the dodgers attorney declined to comment Anderson. Do we know why? I mean why he didn't sit down with did. They know. And you know, we we don't know the the why we know that Robert Muller apparently pressed to interview, Don jR, and that never happened that sit down interview. You've never happened and same with President Trump. There were these discussions about issuing a subpoena for sit down interview and that never happened. Either never got to the point where formal request was made for a subpoena. So there's certainly a lot more to learn about what went on behind the scenes and the special counsel Brown. Thanks very much as all that was unfolding House Judiciary committee chairman during Adler dispatch a letter to the attorney general demanding that he publicly released those molar summaries as soon as possible he also asked for communications between the special counsel and the department of Justice about the report talked about that as well as the back and forth over the reported. So with Virginia democratic congressman Gerald Connelly who sits on the house oversight committee. Congressman currently these summaries. Why do you think they need to be released immediately as German Nadler's calling for them to be? I think we're very concerned and send that as time goes by a certain narrative that may be highly inaccurate sets in and that narrative, of course, is the one the president has propounded that full exoneration nothing to see here. Let's move on. Well, we haven't seen them all report. We haven't seen the summaries that staff prepared of the report we've only seen one four page summary of four hundred page report, plus supporting documents, and there's nothing like seeing the real document for all of us to be able to make up on months, but the people because that was something that was also echoed, according to reporting from some of the people who was on Muller's team that they were afraid this had already kind of set the stage and people's minds for a for forming an opinion, that's right. That's right. And so much less time we met we talked about this. Let's take obstruction of Justice. The only thing we know indirect quotes through the bar summary is that Muller said, I couldn't conclude a crime had been committed by the president with respect to obstruction of Justice. But neither could I exonerate him, unquote. Now that is stunning that is that's a prosecutor saying a crime may very well have been committed. I couldn't resolve it in Republicans are saying look, the attorney general is promise he's going to release as much of the reporters illegally. Can why not give him the time? He needs, you know, it's almost four hundred pages to go through. Look Democrats have been consistent all along long before the report was back written or completed that whatever he had to say the public and the congress deserve to have the full report. So that's not a new referring the idea that the attorney general needs weeks to edit and redact the report when it took them less than forty eight hours to determine the president would not be charged with a crime, obstruction of Justice. Even though the Muller report says that they couldn't exonerated from him such a crime. I think just doesn't pass the smell test with the public or or certainly with us. Do you think Muller needs to testify in front of congress? Or can the report if it's released and not heavily redacted speak for myself. I hope the report speaks for itself innocent. But I think that sooner or later Muller will absolutely be essential as a witness as will attorney general bar. But I think I think there's no substitute for getting you know, the man in flesh and blood to talk about what he was thinking why they concluded x y and z why they left some things out. Why they didn't for example? Why didn't they pursue getting testimony under oath from the president himself? What led to that decision? Just let's they him ministration official told CNN today that it would be inappropriate. That's not the word they use. It was actually sort of a curse word to release embarrassing information about the president. If he's not going to be accused of many crimes, what do you say? To that Anderson. Pray tell what could be more embarrassing than what we already know about this president hush money. Playmates porn stars, you know, lying about Russian money and his involvement. And a potential Trump Tower Moscow calling people out by names, you know, denigrating people with disabilities, denigrating, certain ethnic groups. I mean is there an embarrassment? This president hasn't engaged in that would actually be magnified by the mullahs report. I doubt it congressman Connolly appreciate your time. Thank you. My pleasure interesting. Thank you. Well, joining us now New York Times White House correspondent CNN political analyst Maggie Haberman CNN chief political analyst quarter border and CNN chief legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin Duino megi where the president actually stands on Muller. Now. I mean, he liked him. He didn't like him many liked him. I think he stands on wherever it is. Good for Donald Trump is how he feels about Robert Muller. And so when you know the letter the summary came out from Bill bar, and he was able to seize on the parts of that that seemed good he did that. And I, you know, one of the things that has come out in the last day is that there were people on the team who were surprised at how bar handle this and how the president seized on that. And I don't understand how anyone could have watched the last two years. I've been surprised, but doesn't it did because this is very much how he handles all of these things I think he will see him and Rudy Giuliani say any number of different things about this report as we head into the time when it is portions of in any way or released publicly there were some people around the president. When the report was submitted who were saying to him, regardless of what the bar letter says just be cautious in what you say. Because it is going to come out an injury and the details of this report. We haven't seen it. We don't know. What's in it? But we do know that just based on what we've all been reporting on in based on certainly what we've heard from some members of the team of concerns. They're going to be a lot of details in there that are maybe not criminally damaging as we know, but certainly punch potentially politically damaging. So he's embraced this notion. Gore that until it is released it just going to be both sides kind of vying for controlling the or and at this point. Of course, the president has control the narrative, he said, I'm completely vindicated even though he wasn't and there was no collusion. And as Maggie says, no, there's no reason to expect otherwise. But now that you have this reporting from the New York Times and elsewhere about the discrepancies between what was in the bar letter. And the reports of what team Muller thought should have been in the bar letter. And the news that they're. May have been summaries that we're scrubbed that that bar could have used in his letter and chose not to the fight is on to say, okay. The Democrats are saying, well, we got to clear this up. We have to know what bar chose not to use. And the American public deserves to see it, Jeff. I mean this letter from Nadler demanding the release of some reasons from from Muller does that have any weight at all? I think it's unlikely remember. Muller is a subordinate of of bar. I mean, he is an employee of the department of Justice. He's not an independent council. He is simply an employee, and so, you know, internal communications within an executive department is very unusual for those to be released. I think Nadler is really interested in as most people are really interesting is getting the report. But if you look at the categories that bar establish, those four categories classified information grand jury material other investigations, potentially embarrassing material. That's huge. Now. I don't know that bar will define those expansively embarrassing material was for like third parties, which could be the president the president. I mean, the president could have this extraordinary situation of well, he can't be indicted under Justice department policy, but because he can't be indicted and is not being charged. You can't disclose embarrassing information about him, which is a heads. I win. Tails, you lose situation for for the president. I don't know if that's how far is going to interpret it, but based on the four categories it's possible, he'll do that. It's really difficult to figure out you can indict the president. So do you wanna pull James Comey as he did with Hillary Clinton and say, I'm not going to indict her, but she was reckless. And so what are you put in the public view in the public domain about somebody? You can't indict who also happens to be the president United States needs some accountability to the public and is running for reelection. And exactly in the middle of that. There is going to be sure pushback. The times reporting that members Muller's team are displeased. The president today tweeted this the New York Times had no legitimate sources, which would be totally illegal concerning the mullahs report. In fact, they probably had no sources at all. They are a fake newspaper who've already been forced to apologize for their incorrect and very bad reporting on me. Okay. Where do you start? Right. So I mean, I guess I would refer people to the episode of the daily podcast times puts out where there was an extended audio of the interview between Eiji souls burger or publisher and the president from January where the president referred very favorably in glowingly to the times and how much he valued its coverage. So I would ask them to contrast that with what he does to people's faces. I mean, well, it's also that what he does in term, you know, Jeffrey use the phrase I had been thinking of before which is heads. I win tails you lose. I mean that is that is what it is all about. It is not surprising that he is trying to undermine faith in institutions or anything that is potentially challenging what he wants to see out there. We have seen him do this over and over. We obviously stand by the reporting. And this just is is in and the the repeated falsehood that he asserts that the times apologize for coverage. He's also Nacho. But he, but it's, but it's something he likes saying. And it is something that his supporters have taken hold of glory. We also learned the Michael Kohn is telling congress that. He has more information that he found on some sort of a hard drive and essentially once more time before going bankrupt, some sort of reduction he his attorneys wrote a letter today to congressional Democrats saying that them who had been on oversight committee's saying that. I'm look I've discovered this hard drive. I've only looked through one percent of it. It has fourteen million files. Emails audio have been seized by might have but already well, they said they just discovered it, and it contains substantial new information, and that what he wants is for the Democrats to write letters on his behalf to the southern district of New York saying, they need his assistance and their oversight investigations. And therefore, he should not go to jail on may six as he is supposed to go to jail. I don't know what Democrats will do Jeff using this. It's it's certainly a long shot. They don't get any sort of reduction in sentence. I don't think it's out of the question. They might get some delay. I mean, you have to look at Michael. Cohn situation, which is here. He is. He's the only person going to prison for Manafort who who put millions of dollars just talking and the and the crimes were were not direct some of them related at the campaign overlapped with it. But yes, yes. For a lot of other things, right? But but Michael Kohn is is convicted of behavior that benefits Donald Trump not him. And he's the one who's going to prison and congress is saying to him spend your last month of freedom helping us out for which you have gotten and we'll get no benefit. I mean, it is not a good position to be in you can. But I don't know what he can do been cooperating witness, though, wouldn't it have gone easier for thinks it might have. I mean, he he had this peculiar guilty plea situation where he had no cooperation agreement although he did cooperate. And but he didn't really get much benefit out of it. And he got three years, which by white collar standards is a pretty substantial sentence and has yesterday. Serve eighty five percent of that in federal court. So I mean, if it opens it federal prison. Yeah. Jeff Toobin, Gloria borger, Maggie Haberman. Thanks very much Maga's gonna stick around. She has some new reporting. This is just up on the times as website. I had to read it, and I was sitting right next door. I didn't know about it that might have been might have a bearing on the battle over the president's taxes. We'll talk about this new report from Maggie also what the president is saying about the fight and later tracking the threats the president makes but doesn't follow through on including his latest back down keeping him honest. Tired of spending hundreds of dollars for prescription glasses. Our friends at Zanny optical offer, a huge variety of high quality stylish frames and state of the art optics starting at just six ninety five. You can get multiple frames with this great pricing for less than one pair. Elsewhere start building your eyewear wardrobe from the comfort of your own home at Xeni dot com. With the latest trends in eyewear available in hundreds of frame styles and materials there isn't a better way to change it up for every season. Plus is any offers prescription sunglasses at incredible prices. Visit Xeni today at Xeni dot com slash CNN. That's Z E N N, I dot com slash CNN. Breaking news tonight. It's really interesting news. President Trump speaking out about a top Democrats requests for his tax returns, the chairman of House Ways, and means committee has asked the IRS provide the president's returns as you probably know from two thousand and thirteen through two thousand eighteen now when President Trump was asked about it this afternoon, he didn't really have a direct answer. Here's what he said. Though, speak to my lawyers. They'll speak to the attorney general. They'll speak to my lawyers, and they'll speak to the attorney general. Well, that is what's known as a shot across the bow. And the president's motivation for saying, it might just make a little more sense in the context, Maggie Haberman new reporting. She's back with us. This is really fascinating stuff. Explain it has to do with the IRS the general counsel to the IRS is somebody who's linked to President Trump short. So Matthew Desmond who is the chief counsel? So the IRS his nomination had been languishing for many months. He was appointed last nominated last fall, the president called before Bill bar was confirmed as several days or a week before back in February the president called Mitch McConnell, and in the course of the conversation said that he would like him to fast track the IRS chief counsel his confirmation vote that Desmond was getting frustrated with the weight might want to withdraw his nomination and that it was a top priority. Even more of a priority than getting bar confirmed. Now, this was the prison said getting the. The general counsel to the IRS fact who is somebody who has worked for has among his previous clientele had been some work related to the Trump organization. That is correct. And he's worked alongside the president's tax layer. So it was more important to get him confirmed. And then the attorney general the United at the time. Yes, and it struck now the Senate we should note did not move the Desmond vote before bar bar was confirmed when he was expected to be in desma was confirmed at the end of February. He is now they're now the White House will say that Desmond confirmation had been a priority for many months top five priority because he was going to be dealing with a very potentially dicey tax season after the passing of the tax Bill, so fine. Okay. Except he does have this specific connection to the president. And it struck a number of people as possible that the president had other motives given. The Democrats have been talking about trying to get hold of his tax returns. Presumably the chief the chief counsel to the IRS would be involved in that decision somewhat. Yeah. You would think of I mean, if the IRS was I it seems like it's. Up to the IRS to how to proceed, but if general counsel for the IRS, I assumed that is the person who would be the point of contact, or at least might have some involvement in it. Yes. But I think it is. It is an example of if that was the president's motive that is part of a I think a pattern that we have seen repeatedly where he tries to install people. He perceives as loyalists in certain jobs where there are potential investigative connections. That's really fascinating mega hit. Thanks for joining us. Now is Trump biographer Michael dantonio, author most recently, the shadow president truth about Mike Pence also CNN legal analyst, Laura coats. So Laura first off maggie's reporting the times reporting that the president push the Senate to fasttrack his nominee for IRS chief counsel. How do you see that? I mean, just think about the context of it. We're within a week of the federal government reopening. And that sounds like a long time ago. The president prioritizes the chief counsel of the IRS that's top of the list, even over the attorney general of the United States. I mean think about what the role of that person is the role of that chief counsel, coincidentally is able to interpret the code to be able to figure out what should it be a plausible interpretation the enforcement of it? The IRS code is known to be extraordinarily boring, and frankly, strike a straightforward at this point that what it says is actually supposed to be followed to deprioritize that really puts into context. The fact that the president United States anticipated within a few weeks of the new democratic led house representatives coming in knowing that they were going to be three bodies in congress with the thority to try to get his tax returns, according to that boring tax code he prioritizes that this sounds a lot. Like what happened in these New York, which are free Berman essentially to have. His girl Friday in the office in order to make sure he had oversight over a particular area. That's close to home for the president. I'd states Manhattan where number of his businesses are. So you see as Maggie pointed out this trend, but you also see a gearing up a preparation by the president of the United States and his team to say we're going to be this is going to be a request. We have to prepare for litigation. He didn't ask for the head of the IRS Stanley h the chief counsel. And remember, it's the DOJ Anderson that will have the obligation to actually litigated the matter in the court. So it the head of the DOJ was less important than the person interpreting the tax code. You know, where he was thinking. And what he was thinking about. The president's tax returns are under audit. Michael Kohn was asked about that. When he testified before the house oversight in February. And I just wanna play that what he said. Mr. Cohen, do you know whether President Trump's tax returns were really under audit by the IRS in two thousand sixteen. I don't know the answer I asked for a copy of the audit. So that I could use it in terms of my. Statements to the press, and I was never able to obtain one. It's not just the president hasn't turned over his tax returns. As he said, he would there is there's not any proof rate that ever that he's been under audit. No there isn't any proof. And what we do have proof of is that the president prior to his inauguration trotted out a tax lawyer who actually was working in the same firm as Mr. Desmond who Maggie reported is nominated. Now, the chief counsel at the IRS and that in that dog and pony show. There were stacks and stacks of files that appeared to just have blank paper in them. And he was announcing that he was doing something to separate his business interest from his activity as president and really it was a kind of toothless act that he took that really didn't remove him from contact with his children who are running these firms so time, and again, we have a president who's making these personnel decisions on a personal basis. With an eye toward protecting himself. Not the national interest. Not the American taxpayer where the IRS council you? You would think would be most concerned with applying the tax code. And now he's gonna fight all of this in court, citing his attorney general who he's always complained should be his personal lawyer. So we're seeing the true Trump nothing at work, which is to make everything about protecting himself. Lord. You know, there is no law that the the candidate Trump had to release his tax returns. Yes. Everyone since Nixon had had done that. But you know, prisoners supporters could very easily say and understandably, so we'll look there's not break any law by not releasing his returns. And now congress now that the Democrats will come in are reaching out to try to look at those returns. How is that? Not just harassment. Well, they are trying to argue that this is a weaponization of the tax code. Matt will probably form the basis of the majority of any pushback from Steve Mnuchin on down. However, the tax code is actually quite clear about the requirements that they shall furnish. The tax information to that particular ways and means committee, so whether the public ultimately will see it will be maybe a different story. But it's important that you raise the idea of the context and a historical precedent set. The reason it dates back to Nixon is because Nixon himself based on charitable deductions and the fear of the American people that nobody was guarding the guards. And that the IRS was somehow not providing a fair auditing process of the president of the United States as they would have with an average Joe citizen. He said in his famous, I'm not a crook statement about that idea of a cost benefit analysis of on the one hand you have the privacy interests of somebody issuing a tax return or filling one out against the public's right to know, whether or not the. It is a crook. Nixon said, well, I'm not a crook. But he voluntarily transferred and turned over his tax returns. That's a difference Lor coach Michael dantonio. Thanks very much coming up next. The president's for free from me water confrontation with Mexico is larger pattern. They should've making threats and then backing down. The question is is there a strategy behind? It is wise or is it just the art of the cave. We'll keep them honest. Remember to create an ad like this one visit pure winning dot com slash CNN. President Trump has been doing a lot of reversing himself lately. And whether you consider that good or bad thing, it certainly is fascinating on a number of levels. Because for the most part the president is retreating from battles of his own making and corners. You could say of his own painting from threats he makes but then didn't fulfil today. He backed down from his threat to close parts or all of the southern border as early as this week. Now, it's maybe sometime next year. We're going to give them a one year warning. And if the drugs, don't stop or largely stop, we're going to put tariffs on Mexico and products in particular cars, the whole ballgame is cars, it's the big ball game with many countries it's cars, and if that doesn't stop the drugs, we closed the border. So now he's going to close it in a year. If quote, the drugs don't stop or largely stopped that retreat is part of a campaign of retreats. He said Mexico, of course, would pay for the wall he walked away from that in a number of ways, he said, it would be made by a pre cast concrete, but then settled for the same metal fencing that's already in place for wall that still hasn't been built shut down the government to get funding from congress and failed to get in back down. Now, all of this is certainly complicated stuff. Let's be fair and backing down from something that you promised or campaigned on. That's not necessarily bad thing for some. It would be a sign that they've learned about an issue and change their mind. Wrong with that the reason this is so striking with this president is he doesn't emit he's ever changed his mind or back down. And he campaigned by repeatedly claiming all this would be so easy for him. Because according to him, he's very smart, and he knows how to win and the president has one or had really good news on a number of important things. We should also point out supreme court justices conservative judges unemployment but on his centerpieces on the border not so much same with healthcare without warning. He reopened his fight to replace ObamaCare. And when his own party told him to drop it to delay a politically punishing voted till after the twenty twenty election. He did you backed down. That's because he had no plan because if he had a great healthcare plan or any plan he would be promoting it now before the election. This is clearly a bluff, and we know this because it's the exact same healthcare bluff that he used in two thousand and sixteen. He's almost using the same words. He's running a bluff which he's done about big things and small things over the years. Whether it's threatening to investigate and prosecute. Hillary Clinton or unleash fire and fury in North Korea or reveal what is investigators uncovered about President Obama's birth certificate, which is not to say the president's never threatened or even bluff, they do what they don't do is raise the stakes so high and then fold their cards as often as we've seen this president do plenty to talk about with our next two guests. Rick Wilson is a Republican strategist say has any difference or two with the party these days? He's the author of everything Trump touches dies also seen in global affairs analyst max boot who also knows it's catchy book titles. Having ridden the corrosion of conservatism y left the right? Max the prison today saying that he doesn't play games? I mean, the irony of so much with this president says is it's almost opposite of what the truth actually is. I mean, he does play games. It's exactly what this is. Isn't it? Absolutely. I mean just a few days ago. You had Kellyanne Conway saying the president is not bluffing. You have to take him. Seriously. Well, contrary he is bluffing. And you can't take him seriously. And this is part of a pattern with him. He is a master of bluff and bluster and BS that is his stock in trade that is what his whole candidacy and his whole presidency is all about Rick some of supporters will say, well, look, he's shaking things up and by threatening that to Mexico and to congress. He's getting people to react or to do something that they might not otherwise have done. I think there's been a lot of sort of magical thinking on the part of Trump's supporters that the character that they saw on on a reality show on called the apprentice for fifteen years, it was the real Donald Trump. And you know, he's really not an actually terrific negotiator. He's not a dealmaker, and he doesn't really have the ability to to move the needle like he claims he did in terms of making other countries and making other people do it what he wants. I mean, we've looked at North Korea. We've looked at Mexico. We've looked at NATO. We've looked at China. We looked at Russia. None of those places are doing what Donald Trump wants. Because he doesn't really have the ability to cut these deals that folks thought he could do. And so that's why he tends to blustery tends to like laid out there. And so things gotten close to the border tomorrow. And then it walks back a year, I'm going limit it the ACA maybe two years from now. So these things are always sort of a intangibles and promises that don't that. Don't get don't get fulfilled and his audience tends to make excuses for it. We'll next what are those excuses often that we have heard now over the last two years from supporters on the air is well, look, I pay attention to the policy. I'm not listening to the tweets, and what he says, which I understand that as an argument, but in the case of saying, I'm shutting down aid to Honduras, Guatemala, El Salvador, the policy was Cureton Nielsen in the region signing a deal on a Wednesday announcing it on a Thursday about greater cooperation as a way to move forward. And then the president's statement on Friday and subsequent follow through by State Department and Saturday. I mean, the statement is the policy and it destroyed the policy that they were actually pursuing right? I think there's a couple of issues here. Anderson the president has terrible policy instincts and be the president says a lot of stuff that he doesn't mean. For example, when he says, I'm going to take the troops out of Syria, or when he said last week that he's going to come up with a health care plan or I'm going to close the. With Mexico next week. And he doesn't do any of those things or you know, threatening to rain fire and fury down on North Korea. Or what have you and with with the latter category of of of statements where he doesn't actually execute them. I mean, it's generally a good thing. Because these what he says is harebrained it doesn't make any sense. It would be very dangerous to actually carry out his ideas. But there's a huge cost having a president. Who is a BS artist? His words don't mean anything other countries understand that they can discount ninety eight percent of what Trump says that puts them in a very weak negotiating position with countries like China and North Korea and potentially it creates a real danger down the road. If we get into a real crisis where the president's words are the difference between war and peace, and who the heck and possibly take anything that Donald Trump takes seriously in that kind of situation. Rick, I don't know I don't know the answer to this. But I mean, Jean think the president actually cares about all the, you know, the impact overseas. The opinion of overseas. The actual follow. There's not actual follow through or that it gets reverse later on as long as to his base to the people. He is talking to directly he appears to be. Following through or appears to be acting tough. And that's enough for them because they're not following through on the details. Anderson. I think you've got a very good point there. Donald Trump lives in the very immediate moment. He lives in the now, he's always he's always focused on what the next headline about him says how how his basis perceiving his action at that moment. He understands they don't really have a real deep historical memory, and they don't look prospectively at the potential consequences of his statements and actions. So he's always looking to keep the Trump image. Right where he wants it. Keep the cameras on him at all times and move forward. All the time. No matter what wreckages behind him. And no matter what cleanup has to be done on on the wild statements and the lies and the and the prevarications in the back and forth. And on the flip flops he knows that he's always going to have a built in audience that loves seeing Donald Trump performed the Donald Trump act this whole performance art presidency of his is about the next. Big explosion, the next big show. The next big tweet the craziness that comes to keep the bread and the circus's aspect of Donald Trump, which is just bizarre given. That he is president. I mean, what you describe is, you know, fine for if you're a realtor or you're, you know, you're developing resorts. But I mean, he it's it actually has consequence. Now moving from being a celebrity to being a president is a big deal. Max boot Rick Wilson. Thank you still ahead. Mike. Thanks anderson. President Trump's lives this week. He said the sound made by windmills may cause cancer. And the father's born in Germany, both not true, the one who said several times before the question, of course, is why does he do that? We'll take an in depth. Look, the president's tricky relationship sometimes with the truth. The thing makes it is. So. The case is we gotta find who wrote this. No, we do that. We find the killer. This science defined out. Police used Luminol a chemical which close when it comes into contact with the iron component in blood that drama, but where was the rifle, and which man was telling the truth for Renwick files. The legendary true crime show is now a podcast. Join investigators as they take on the toughest cases with cutting edge scientific tools. Subscribe now with apple podcasts with new episodes every Monday and Thursday, you'll never miss out on getting your forensic fix. As we've been reporting the president claimed during a press conference yesterday that his father was quote born in a very wonderful place in Germany, actually, his father. Fred Trump was born in New York City. His grandfather was from Germany and not telling the truth about his father's birthplace wasn't the only false claim the president made this week. He might be not surprised to learn on Tuesday night. He said this about windmills in the sound. They make in cancer. Hillary wanted to put up wind wind if you if you have any windmill anywhere near your house. Congratulations. You have just went down seventy five percent in value. And they say the noise causes cancer. You tell me that one. Okay. Air. You know, the thing makes it is soda. Case you missed it the prison United States. So that the sound from windmills they say causes cancer. Of course. I mean, don't need to say this. There's no proof to back that up Republican Senator Chuck Grassley, call the president's comments, idiotic, whoever. However, you see it. This is certain making statements that are absolutely not true. Nothing. New for the president more now from CNN she political analyst, Gloria borger. Donald Trump has had a fraught relationship with the truth one that goes back decades to the building and selling of Trump Tower where Barbara res- managed the construction implanted that Princess Di was looking for an apartment from town. And that didn't happen. Oh, what a made the Papis. Sure. So veracity wasn't a part of it. It was just getting the buzz out there about about Trump. Did you guys laugh at it or nothing? So terrible about it. I mean, you know, it was kinda like puffing. You know, it was like exaggerating. Tony Schwartz co-author of Trump's art of the deal has a name for this. I came up with this phrase truthful hyperbole, which is you know, I called it an innocent form of exaggeration. Now, I can call something that I actually sold for two million dollars. I can say ten billion dollars, and that becomes truthful hyperbole. The problem is that there is no such thing as truthful hyperbole. The truth is the truth hyperbole is ally. They don't go together, and they didn't go together during the troubled opening of Trump's Atlantic City Taj Mahal casino in nineteen ninety when some of the flats. Didn't work when the casino control commission went down there on opening day to check out that although things have been done many things hadn't been done. They shut down a third of the slots slots that were critical to the casinos success. The slots are the prime revenue producer of the casino to shut down the third on opening day was both humiliating and financially disastrous. And it was only done because he doesn't have an organization in-depth wasn't a story. Trump told something could go bad like the opening of the Taj. And and he would say it's because we had so much business here that this happened. Not that the systems broke down. Not that we didn't know what we were doing. We had so much business broke down truly. He just would lie about everything. And he did what about the slot machine thing? Whether it would down for a while the slots were so hot. Nobody's again. Nobody's seeing people play that heart and that fast. The order it blew out. The slots live report we had machines. They'd like that too. Many of you, actually. Donald is so wrapped up in hyperbole that it's almost constant lies. You know, whether it's the little littlest things where you know, if you had if you had. Have you had two thousand people at an event, you know, he would say there were five thousand people at lying when there seems to be no reason to lie. There's no belief system if it will work, I will say it if it stops working I'll say it's opposite. And I will not feel any compunction about saying it's opposite. Because I don't believe anything in the first place lying when it's in his political interest as he did last July after his disastrous press conference with flat. Amir Putin trying to walk back this remark on election interference people came to me, Dan Coats, came to me and some others. They said they think it's Russia. I have President Putin. He just said it's not Russia. I will say this. I don't see any reason why it would be an a key sentence in my remarks. I said the word would instead of wouldn't. The sentence should have been. I don't see any reason why I wouldn't why it wouldn't be rushing thing. It from his perspective doesn't make a distinction between. What's true, and what's false? He's his only distinction is what will work, and what will not work and what happens when he's challenged with facts. What does he do? He has a genius perverse genius for turning any situation into something that is evidence of his brilliance. Even if it's not true what you're seeing in. What you're reading is not what's happening. Gloria borger reporting chicken with Chris when he was working on for Cuomo primetime. Chris what were you see it laid out like that? Yeah. It's quite a situation, we're dealing with my gingham guy so nicely to Morley for the game is a big gingham guy. Well, you sixty minutes guys just together. And I respect that. We have the secretary tonight cures to Nielsen and she's down on the border. The president is going down there tomorrow. We have what I believe is a very good and productive conversation about the status down there. What she believes they need. And why they're not getting it. I hope people watch it because I don't know why congress is sleeping on the situation. Frankly, I don't know why the president is either. And you'll see in the interview where that assertion comes from. We also have congressman Tim Ryan on he's throwing his hat in coop in the race. He wants to be president. Why why him we'll test them tonight? All right. Chris. I'll see you. Then a couple of minutes coming up next. The president makes another controversial pick for another powerful post that ahead. I'm Biagio Messina. And I'm joke in soon. We're the producers behind HSEN television documentary series unmasking killer. Join us as we explored the identification capture and arrest of Joseph James, Di Angelo the alleged Golden State killer in a special ten part podcast series unmasking killer, all new episodes premiering Tuesday. February twelve subscribed today at apple podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. President Trump says he's planning to nominate former Republican presidential hopeful Herman Cain for seat on the Federal Reserve Board in the Oval Office today. The president called king quota terrific, man. Terrific person. It's his second fed recommendation recent days earlier, he said he wanted conservative economist Stephen Moore, former campaign aide to be on the fed as well. As for Kane is a former pizza executive who dropped out of the two thousand twelve Republican presidential nomination amid sexual harassment allegations. Unlike more Cain does have some experience with the fed back in the ninety s he served as director of the Federal Reserve Bank in Kansas City. All right. The news continues right now, let's go back to Chris Cuomo prime-time, Chris.

president President Trump Robert Muller congress attorney CNN United States Hillary Clinton Anderson New York Times Trump Tower President Putin IRS Maggie Haberman Trump Gloria borger Trump Michael Kohn Justice department
Trump claims Michael Cohen "directly" asked him for a pardon making him a potential witness on whether Cohen lied to Congress

The Situation Room with Wolf Blitzer

39:41 min | 2 years ago

Trump claims Michael Cohen "directly" asked him for a pardon making him a potential witness on whether Cohen lied to Congress

"Tired of spending hundreds of dollars for prescription glasses. Xeni offers thousands of affordable. Eyewear styles starting at just six ninety five. No ridiculous markups. No hassles. Just quality affordable. I wear delivered right to you visits. Any today at Xeni dot com slash CNN. Happening now breaking news. I think your pardon the president accuses Michael tone of lying to congress claiming as former fixer is a quote fraudster who directly asked him for a pardon did Mr. Trump set himself up to be subpoenaed. Take the shine off another exit through the revolving door over at the White House. That's former Fox News boss Bill shine calls it quits. We're learning more about why the president had been souring I shy Manafort destiny, Mr. Trump says he feels very badly for his former campaign chairman, even after he got a surprisingly lenient sentence for Bank and tax fraud. We're looking at what's ahead for Paul Manafort with another sentencing date, just around the corner and Kim blames Trump's the North Koreans aren't putting a positive spin on the Hanoi summit anymore. They're now admitting failure and shifting the blame to the United States and President Trump. I'm wolf Blitzer. You're in the situation room. This is CNN breaking news. We're following breaking news on President Trump. Now, put tential witness as to whether Michael color lied to congress. Mr. Trump claims his former fixer directly asked him for a pardon. And he said no in public testimony Cohen said he never asked his former boss for a pardon tonight. Tell it says it's the president who's lying also break, you former Fox News executive Bill shine has stepped down from his job over at the White House. He's the fifth person to lead Mr. Trump's communications operation, and then leave a source Chelsea an that the president question shines judgment on multiple issues in recent months. I'll talk with congressman Roger crystalline Murthy, a member of both the intelligence and the oversight committees that heard testimony for Michael Collins, and our correspondents and analysts are also standing by first. Let's go to our chief White House. Correspondent Jim Acosta Jim of very busy day for the president that included. His bombshell tweet about Michael Cohen. That's right. We'll President Trump is down in Florida for the weekend. He towards storm damage in Alabama today. But before he left the White House. He started a new war of words with Michael Cohen, which has the potential to drag the president into a possible perjury case against his former personal attorney. After shying away from the subject for days. President Trump took aim at his former personal attorney Michael Cohen accusing his one time fixer of lying to congress stone cold lie at his lied about a lot of things. But when he lied about the bar that was really ally. And he knew all about guards is lawyers said that they went to my lawyers, and as Lord president is referring to this comment Cohen made last week under oath when he testified that he had not sought a pardon from Mr. Trump, even though his own attorneys had done just that. And I have never asked for nor would I accept a pardon from President Trump. The president went one step further legend Cohen had sought a pardon personally, tweeting bad lawyer and fraudster Michael Cohen said under sworn testimony that he had never asked for pardon his lawyers. Totally contradicted him. He lied. Additionally. He directly asked me for a pardon. I said no Cohen fired. Back tweeting just another set of lies by the president. Mr president. Let me remind you that today is International Women's Day. You may want to us today to apologize for your own lies in dirty deeds. Two women like Karen McDougal and Stephanie Clifford a reference to Mr. Trump's alleged mistresses, but the president's attack on Cohen could backfire pulling Mr. Trump into a perjury investigation into his former personal attorneys remarks, we've upped in here from the president about an does seem like one of these whimsical last minute presidential inventions contrast, Mr. Trump's war of words with Cohen with the sympathy expressed for his former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort who is headed to prison, but may receive a part of his own as he stayed loyal to the president very badly. I think it's been a very very tough time for him. But if you noticed both his lawyer, they highly respected man, and a very highly respected judge the judge said there was no collusion with Russia. It had nothing to do with glued to their wants. No collusion. It's a collusion. Hope that the collusion which just before the president viewed storm damage in Alabama the White House announced its communications director Bill shine is resigning. Sources tell C N Mr. Trump had soured on shine questioning his judgment on a number of issues. Still the president released a statement saying we will miss shine in the White House, but look forward to working together on the twenty twenty presidential campaign where he will be totally involved shine. A former Fox News executive is the sixth person to take on the communications job raising questions about the president's commitment to hire the best people. We're going to get the best people in the world. We're going to use our smartest and our best. We're not using political hacks anymore. The president. It may need a new communications director to help spin the latest unemployment number showing the economy only added twenty thousand jobs last month. Still the president said there's nothing to worry about the economy is very very strong. If you look at these stock Brockett over the last. It's been great. The president is looking to put Democrats on the defensive accusing them of going soft on congresswoman Ilhan, Omar after the house passed a measure condemning hate speech. A move sparked by the freshman, Democrats, anti semitic comments. The Democrats have become an anti Israel party day become an anti Jewish party. But the president overlooked his own record. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides now as for the departure of the communications director here at the White House. A source close to the White House said there were growing concerns about the administration's cozy relationship with Fox News were Bill shine was recently, a top executive shine was partly responsible for the dramatic reduction in press briefings with reporters over here. Instead top officials are routinely on Fox News instead of on other news outlets. They are on FOX way more than other news outlets. This source told me earlier today it is quote dangerous to have shine. So close to the decision making in the west wing but shine is not going far wolf as he's taking a position advising the Trump campaign will cost at the White House. Thanks very much. Let's talk more about the president micro Conan, Paul Manafort our crime Justice for pro Capellas joining us since the president claims Cohen personally and directly asked him about a pardon as Mr. Trump now put. Essentially, a witness if this becomes a major legal case. Yeah. Certainly he could be win. But here's the problem. Both Michael Cohen and the president have credibility issues. Right. They both kind of have issues of telling the truth. So what prosecutor would use them as witnesses in any kind of a case without some kind of corroboration. So they would need some other kind of corroboration to even start potentially bringing any thinking about bringing any kind of perjury charges because this alternately what this is about whether or not Michael Kohn lied again to members of congress when he recently testified if there's corroboration out there that this in fact happened perhaps maybe but other without that. I mean, you can't really trust either one of these guys. Well, we'll the special counsel Robert Muller's investigators in addition to congress look into this allegation that Michael Cohen may have lied under oath before congress the other day. So what would happen in this case? It would have to be members of congress oversight committee would have to make a referral to the department of Justice. And then the department of Justice. With then most likely if they chose to take it on would send it to the Washington US attorney DC US attorney who would then investigate any potential perjury. It would not be the special counsel in this case, it could also think about this wolf affect his case in the southern district of New York. Michael Cohen, remember is still going to try to seek some kind of leniency from the southern district of New York. Even though he's been sentenced. There has been talk about him submitting or asking prosecutors in New York to try and somehow get further reduction in his sentence. So if does come out that he lied here. There's no way that they're going to do that for him speaking of pardons in this different tone from the president he said he felt badly for Paul Manafort, the former Trump campaign chairman, even though he got a relatively very lenient sentence. He allied himself metaphors on attorney aligned himself with the president emerged from the courthouse. And you were there last night. He's the one who said, no collusion. Manafort's attorneys said Noah Lou. Unna no collusion, which seemed to be suggesting maybe Manafort as signaling he would like to pardon and the president by aligning himself saying he felt very badly for Manafort, signaling. Maybe there there could be a part, right and Paul manafort's attorneys come in downing. And remember Kevin downing has been with Paul Manafort for the most part of this case. Now, he's the same attorney who is sharing information with Rudy Giuliani. Remember special counsel's office got really upset during the cooperation agreement that information is being shared with the president's team. And it does seem that Kevin down when he spoke after court. They're said no collusion that he was speaking towards the president. And it's very clear that the president this is on the president's mind, we keep hearing from the president about how he feels bad for Paul Manafort. I think what's going to happen here in the end is once the mother team has done once everything is over the chances of Paul Manfred getting pardon are very high. But I think they want all of that to be over for Muller to go away. So that therefore perhaps Muller doesn't decide to reopen. This investigation some way. Once he's gone. We have more likely to see a party going to forty seven month daily four year sentence last night in this one case in northern Virginia. But there's another case of here in the district of Columbia, the judge there has to reach a decision Wednesday. He's going to be sentenced for separate crimes that he committed and this federal judge Amy Berman Jackson, she's considered pretty tough. Yeah. And she hasn't been asked sympathetic to Paul Manafort judge as judge Ellis in Virginia who sends them yesterday. Remember, she's the judge who put him in jail when he violated conditions of his release the thing there's a he's facing up to ten years to counts five years on each count. We'll see where she goes, obviously. But parv you of Paul Manafort is much different. She has more is into this case. She has seen more information. She has seen more of the intelligence than necessary that judge Ellis has not necessarily seen. So it's going to be interesting to see what she ultimately does. But she's also issued the demo- she can give him would be ten years, and that would be on the high side. So perhaps maybe somewhere down the middle. Maybe another five years or so for him. In addition to the nearly four that four, and it's a question of whether or not she runs concurrent simultaneously with the four years or that she tacked on says, no I'm going to run this consecutive. So you get another five years. So ultimately he gets about eight to nine years in prison. See next Wednesday what she decides she. Thanks very much. Joining us now democratic congressman Raja Chris Murphy, he's a member of the intelligence and the oversight committees that heard both private and public testimony from Michael Cohen, congressman, thanks so much. Joining us. Thank you wolf. So the president tweeted that Michael Kohn directly directly asked him for a pardon. And he said, no, Michael Kohn testified under oath before your committee that he never asked for a pardon from the president. So who do you believe? Pardon me. We'll no, I'm just kidding. I think that obviously in the oversight hearing, you know, Mr. Cohen made a statement. But remember he also testified for two days in the Intel committee as well about various matters. I can't get into the specific testimony. However, I would strongly urge people to review that testimony. Once it comes out once chairmanship publishes it before they jump to any conclusions about this particular controversy. Well, could you tell us without getting into sensitive information that may have been released and still confidential at this point. Can you tell us who who's more credible on this issue of whether Michael Cohen asked personally for a pardon? Let me just put it this way. I think that I I think your previous guest was correct that there needs to be corroboration. With regard to the statements made by anybody with regard to this issue. And you know, Michael Cohen brought a lot of documents to the to the hearings in the Intel committee. And so I think that people should look at those documents. They should look at his testimony interview. Transcript right now, I think chairmanship is trying to weigh two things competing concerns. One on the on the one hand trying to publish the interview transcripts so that the public and see it, but on the other hand making sure that he doesn't inadvertently in publishing those transcripts shape, alter taint, the testimony of future witnesses that are coming before the Intel committee Michael Cohen have documents that corroborate his allegation that he never asked for a part. Again, I can't can't specifics of it. I really really think that people should wait to review this before they jump to conclusions. The one thing I can say which is widely known is that the president has been using the pardon power in a very unconventional way. He's been dangling pardons through tweets and other behavior just recently just with the Manafort case, you saw the White House said the other day, we're not taking the pardons off the table with regard to Manafort, and then almost in a call and response type of dialogue manafort's lawyer comes back and says there was no collusion with Russian officials, you know, as in this particular case. And so I think there's this strange use of the apart power. It could potentially be obstruction of Justice. But again, we have to let the evidence play out or what the other day in open session. When you ask Michael Kohn about his last communication. With President Trump. He told you he couldn't reveal what they discussed because it's under investigation by the US attorney for the southern district of New York. Do you believe that investigator is related to pardons or obstruction or both? It could be again, I don't have all the answers on that particular point. And that question was asked, and and it was partly address, but not fully addressed because I think the southern district of New York is also very concerned about him talking too much about their ongoing investigation that being said, I will I will just reiterate one thing, which is that I believe that we in congress have a duty to get to the bottom of even those particular allegations of wrongdoing because at this point, the DOJ is run by William Barr and William bar has made it clear that he may not Resort Release the results of any investigation. That's currently underway either by special counsel Muller or by the various use attorneys, including southern district of New York or he says he'll release as much as as he can without violating existing rules guidelines by the Justice department. That's not good enough for you as well. Remember one of the guideline? Is that they won't release information in a case where they don't indict the suspect in this in this, particular instance, one of the suspects is the president, and they have competing guidance that says you can't indict sitting president. So it's it's one of those situations where almost certainly he'll be able to refer to that guidance where the special counsel can't indict the sitting president and potentially use that as a means of shrouding, not only the report that special counsel mother issues alternately, but also the underlying evidence supporting that report, and that can also be said about, you know, the investigations in the southern district of New York and elsewhere, I wanna ask you about your committee's investigation into the White House security clearances issue axios is reporting that someone inside the White House gave your committee documents related the Jared, Kushner and vodka Trump security clearances is that true. I don't know what I can say is that Jared Kushner has no business having access to top security material or top secret material he has numerous unreported foreign contacts, he has tremendous financial vulnerabilities which make him susceptible to financial manipulation. And then third and most important almost every law enforcement official who looked at his case. And and in in fact, Ivanka's case apparently said that they should not have access to top secret clearance, and yet the president overrode that judgment and then concealed that. He overrode that judgment saying he had nothing to do with their security clearance process. I think they should voluntarily comply with chairman Cummings requests for information regarding the security process, if they don't I think chairman Cummings is is going to look at the subpoena power. If he goes that route, I think that he'll have a lot of support including from people like me, congressman, Doug Christner Murthy. Thanks as usual for joining us. Thank you up next. This President Trump obsessed right now with Michael Cohen. We're going to tell you what we're learning about his thinking and his ranting about his longtime. Former lawyer, and we're also getting more reporting Bill shines exit from the Trump White House kid anyone in any job. Please the president. Tired of spending hundreds of dollars for prescription glasses. Our friends at Zanny optical offer, a huge variety of high quality stylish frames and state of the art optics starting at just six ninety five. You can get multiple frames with this great pricing for less than one pair. Elsewhere start building your eyewear wardrobe from the comfort of your own home at Xeni dot com. With the latest trends in eyewear available in hundreds of frame styles and materials there isn't a better way to change it up for every season. Plus is any offers prescription sunglasses at incredible prices visits. Any today at Xeni dot com slash CNN. That's Z E N N, I dot com slash CNN. The breaking news this hour, President Trump claiming that his former a fixer and lawyer Michael Kohn directly asked him for a pardon. And then lied under oath about it to congress. Let's dig deeper with our correspondents in our analysts Gloria borger, this is what the president tweeted earlier today about his former lawyer bad lawyer and frost or Michael Cohen said under sworn testimony that he never asked for a pardon his lawyers. Totally contradicted him. He lied. Additionally. He directly asked me for a pardon. I said, no he lied again. He also badly wanted to work at the White House. He lied. What does that say to you that the president is obsessed with Michael Cohen, and with his testimony to congress, and that, you know, the chairman of the oversight committee said well, if the president is saying this and there's a contradiction. I'm happy you can pick up the phone and call me anytime, and we can we can talk about this. So it just it just gives you a sense of always said that Trump tweeting is the true Trump. And when he obsesses about things as he's obsessing about Michael Cohen testimony. You you understand this is getting under his skin and you have to ask yourself. Why? The president's comments as a direct contradiction to what Michael Cohen testified to under oath before congress last week when he said, quote, I have never asked for nor would I accept a pardon from President Trump. So who should we believe? Well, we might be able to answer that question. If in fact, the president allies get what it looks like they're asking for which is a DOJ investigation into whether Michael Cohen, actually perjured himself once again in that public testimony by saying I never asked for a pardon the issue for the president and his team is that in order to really answer that question, you're going to have to get somebody under oath who would know. And according to President Trump in that tweet, it's the president. So if they really want to nail Michael Cohen to the wall, they're going to have to have Donald Trump do what they haven't wanted him to do in the past, which is talk under oath. Now, maybe they can do it in a written forum like a bad before. But that's what they're going to need the president to do because according to him. Just the two of them who know the answer the president's official public statements in Twitter's of official statement from the president of the United States. He himself has said that the White House has said that does that open him up to potentially be a witness in a perjury case perjury investigation against Michael Kohn. Well, he certainly now thrust himself, right? Smack dab in the middle of this as the person with central knowledge, he saying not only did Michael Cohen asked me for a part. He saying I told him know something I don't think that we had heard before we had obviously heard all week at there were discussions between lawyers ongoing the extent of which kind of depended on whether they were in a joint defense agreement or whether they weren't into joint defense agreement after he had flipped, but this is really a very firm denial from the president. But is Dan appoints out this he really wanted to be in the position of telling investigators under the penalty of false statement charge that this happened in this in this firm of away that's a pretty big risks. And it's not at all clear to me that even the Justice department wants to take this case Cohen is. Already going to jail, and he's already admitted to perjuring himself. Yes for but he says on path of the president of the United States code. Yes. Uh-huh. Does this compromise potentially the president's ability to claim if you wanted to attorney client privilege, I suspect theoretically, I don't think it makes a darn bit of difference. I mean, you're going into this. You have a president who's a liar. His press secretary said he's a liar. And we have federal documents that he says he lied about his claims about payments to story mcdaniels obviously, Michael Cohen's Aligarh. So you gotta go into this. If I were looking at saying, I don't care what either one of them says can you give me an Email? Can you give me a bunch of people who were there at the conversation? And there aren't a bunch of people who say this happen unless you can give me evidence that said one of the other side that says one of the other side's is accurate. I'd say I I don't believe any of any of them one final comment. I suspect yo Jay looking at this. This is a classic slow roll. From the department of Justice you want to investigate this one from two liars. When there's nobody else in the. Room. Let me look at this. Maybe in two thousand twenty after the election. This is going nowhere. Or if you have and I'm not a lawyer. So you can answer this. If you have somebody who contemporaine Isley one of the people told and said, you know, I just had lunch with so. And so and this is what he said to me. And you know, you have somebody who can verify it. Then that would be about this. Now, Michael Cohen testified last week. Why are we just hearing today that he directly asked him for a pardon? And he said no undermines Michael Cohen is his own personal lawyer who has suggested that. Yes. There was a discussion of of apart. And I think that's the answer to your question. It said it's it's in the zeitgeist. It's out there. It's being discussed. It's being discussed on the cable news channels that the president himself watches, and so his chomping at the bit to get at it. He's agitated about it. And that's one of the reasons I think we're hearing about it. Now just want to mention you asked about attorney client privilege one of the arguments that Rudy Giuliani has made to me into others. Is they want to talk more about it? But it's Michael Cohen who is not releasing the attorney client privilege privileges privileged client's to waive. With that out there. Michael Cohen fired right back at the president today on this International Women's Day. He wrote this. This is Michael cones tweet. Just another set of lies by at real Donald Trump. Mr President, let me remind you that today's International Women's Day. You may want to us today to apologize for your own lies and dirty deeds. Two women like Karen McDougal. Stephanie Clifford stormy Daniels. Well, look, these these two men don't play with nuance Allott, and they're they're back and forth on this. And I think you know, Cohen was just fighting back fighting back at the president who called him a liar. So he called him a liar back, and this is what this is what we're going to see, and I don't know that publicly it's ever going to get resolved. I don't know what Michael Cohen told the committee's behind closed doors that we don't that. We don't know about mean, we know about conversations about pardons. In which parts were discussed between attorneys when there was a joint defense agreement. We we know about that. But there's a lot of stuff honestly that we don't know because it was in a in a classified congressman say few moments ago, and he's on both committees intelligence and oversight. Just wait wait till you see the transcript of what he said during two days before the house intelligence committee, and you will understand a lot more in a he he seemed to be pretty positive that. There are major developments everybody. Stick around. The breaking news continues with more on the latest White House departure the communications team and the former Fox News executive Bill shine. He is out. I'm Biagio Messina, and I'm jokin seen. We're the producers behind HSEN television documentary series unmasking killer. Join us as we explore the identification capture and arrest of Joseph James, the Angelo the alleged Golden State killer in a special ten part podcast series unmasking killer, all new episodes premiering Tuesday. February twelfth subscribe today at apple podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. There's more breaking news. We're following the surprise resignation today of the White House communications chief, former Fox News executive Bill shine you've been reporting on this. What is this? What does this indicate more turmoil? I mean, it look it. This is not a new story. So it it almost as it seems like the the notion of turnover in the Trump White House is old news. But the fact that there have been six communications directors to come and go in barely over two years. It's pretty remarkable. And there are lots of reasons for it. The biggest reason is that the president of the United States is the communications director, and it's pretty hard to compete with that. I mean, there's nobody who has been the way that he is in terms of being interested in in his press being his own. Strategists when it comes to what he's going to say until on it so forth. I thought what was interesting is. I was told that it despite the fact that the press release that came from the White House was that he's he'll Bill shine is going to the campaign to be a senior adviser the campaign. I was told they didn't know about that until this morning. Oops. He's they're going to need a sixth communications director right now. There's already been five right? Well, Zana was saying they have a communications director is Donald Trump and the person who takes the job may come from inside because they already know how the president operates. But I think it's very difficult to get a communications director knowing that you're not really the communications director that the that the president is and that at and you know, that's been a problem. And I think it may have been part of Bill shines problem because what he was doing was really booking the president and kind of, you know, setting the atmospherics, but in terms of strategic communication, I think that's done by the president the president was very sympathetic to Paul Manafort and his public comments today. The pope presidents that I feel very badly for Paul Manafort. I think it has been a very tough time for him. Do you feel very badly for Paul Manafort who got nearly four year sentence? He could've gotten twenty or twenty five years. A thirty would have been better. I don't feel badly at all he goes through probation. What does he say I'm gonna violate it? He comes up with an agreement with the special counsel. What is he going to say I'm going to violate it? He goes before courts in the district of Columbia and Virginia to federal courts. Both of them say you're guilty. There is a bigger issue. He could have stood stood in front of the American people and say, I know what happened during the campaign, including why provided polling information to Russian agents. And he could have said forget about the legal issue. This is the most significant political corruption investigation in two generations. He could've said I'm going to speak. Instead, what did he say? I'm humiliated as he should be let me he should get the boy scout badge for lying. He lied every single day until the final Danny said, maybe you can have leniency on me because my feet hurt. The dude needs to spend more time in jail and four years is enough. The judge can do what he wants. He needs to spend more time in jail zero. Simply didn't apologize either. The judge. Jazz. Yeah. He just said it was awful time for it is an awful time. And it's gonna get worse. Three hots and a cot have a good time. We'll see what happens next Wednesday's going to get sentenced on a separate set of issues as well. And the judge the federal judge here in DC is a pretty tough lady. She's very tough and she's been privy to quite a bit of information. She has seen a fair amount of intelligence she had to way to figure out whether he broke his plea deal and lied to the special counsel. And she can now tack on up to ten years of additional prison time, she can decide whether she wants to stack that so we get a full fourteen whether she wants to run them in parallel in some way, but that's going to be totally up to her. I remember these are very different charges. So she may very well decide to stack them instead of having them run in parallel. His lawyer Paul metaphors lawyer emerged from the federal courthouse and use the words, no collusion. Immediately said, no collusion. The president today. Referred to that the federal judge in this particular case also said there was no collusion as far as Manafort in this particular trial was concerned as well. All of this. Seemingly setting the stage for possible person. It's it's like they they have a specific degree in Trump, speak and Trump language, not so much talking about the judge Paul manafort's attorney. That's hundred percent what it was the problem is he didn't realize that everybody else when you're talking directly to the president on television. Everybody else can hear you too. What you're doing? And and by the way, just for every American who's under an IRS investigation this year. I hope you go to the IRS and say sorry, no collusion. Yes. The Gatien was about whether you paid your taxes not about glue clearly didn't pay millions of millions of dollars in taxes. One of the reasons he's going to jail right now everybody stick around in programming note to our viewers. This Sunday night CNN is hosting not one not two but three presidential town halls back toback live from the south by southwest conference in Austin, Texas. The former congressman John Delaney at seven pm eastern, Representative Tulsi Gabbard eight and mayor Pete footage at nine Jake tapper down a bash they will moderate this Sunday night starting at seven eastern right here on CNN. We have some breaking news coming into the situation room right now, the actor Jesse smell, let has just been indicted. We'll take a quick break. So we get more on the breaking story. We'll be right back. Remember to create an ad like this one visit pure winning dot com slash CNN. Breaking news in the case of empire, actor Jesse Spolete who reported to Chicago police that he had been the victim of a hate crime. Now smollet has just been indicted on sixteen felony charges. CNN's Vic want is what story for Nick to charges. They are very extensive update our viewers on the latest. That's right wolf sixteen. Cats all of them for false report of an offense. Now every single one of these charges is in relation to statements that jesse's Millette gave to different police officers alleging that this hate crime had occurred a read you little bit of it at the end of detailing won't smell toll police. It says in this kind and Jesse smollet knew that at the time of this transmission, there was no reasonable grand for believing that such an offence had been committed. Remember smell claims he was attacked in the early hours of January twenty nine in Chicago by two men that he says put a new sarandon's neck through an unknown liquid on him. And shouted racist, and homophobic epithets, and as you're seeing now then went on good Morning, America and detailed those taxes. Well, now, he was arrested a couple of weeks ago turned himself into police he appeared before a judge who released him on a ten thousand dollar bond. He was ordered to surrender his passport. But these now sixteen charges alleging that he made up the entire attack and knew that he was lying when he was relating those details to police remember also he claimed at one of his attackers was a white male that they'd wrestled on the grand, of course, two men suspects. People have interest were arrested. They were both African American men. And they said they told police that Jesse smollet paid them to do this pay thirty five hundred dollars to do it that he orchestrated the entire attack. Now, the superintendent of Chicago police said that he believes that Sma let was dissatisfied with the wage. He was being paid to appear on the empire TV show. And that is why he did it split has since been suspended from that show. And now sixteen counts of giving false information to police of making up this entire attack with Vic, thank you. Nick want reporting for us coming up the president tweets that Michael Cohen directly asked him for a pardon. Did he opened the door to becoming potentially a witness in a perjury investigation? Plus North Korea breaking it silence on the collapse of the Trump Kim summit and laying Blaine for its failure. The case is we gotta find who wrote this note, we do that we find the killer. This science defined out. Police used Luminol a chemical which close when it comes into contact with the iron component in blood that drama, but where was the rifle, and which man was telling the truth forensic files. The legendary true crime show is now a podcast. Join investigators as they take on the toughest cases with cutting edge scientific tools. Subscribe now with apple podcasts with new episodes every Monday and Thursday, you'll never miss out on getting your forensic fix. Breaking news on North Korea and its weapons program. Let's go live to see and as will Ripley joining us from Beijing will what are you learning? So I've just spoken with two sources wolf Jeffrey Lewis, Melissa Han. Han who are analysts looking at commercial satellite imagery. They say the indications are pretty clear that North Korea is in the final stages of preparing for some kind of launch possibly in the very near future. It could be a rocket such as the satellite that North Korea launched from the so, hey, satellite launch facility back in two thousand twelve it could be a missile. They just don't know. But based on the imagery what they're telling me is that it looks like North Korea has assembled the parts possibly put whatever they're going to launch on basically, the railcar, and it could be on the way right now to the so, hey, satellite launch station at tone Chung, re which we have been reporting since yesterday is now at fully operational status. This is obviously a very discouraging sinus tensions continue to escalate between the US North Korea after last week's failed summit in Hanoi. This kiss one day after North Korean state TV showed an hour long documentary touting when it called Kim Jong UN's triumphant and successful annoys summit one full of red carpets and motorcade's handshakes. And smiles tonight, North Korean state media is changing course admitting for the first time that no deal was reached and unloading on the US over the failure saying in a news story, quote, the public at home and abroad are feeling regretful blaming the US for the summit that ended without an agreement. They are definitely trying to make it seem as though they were ready to cut a deal that they had a tremendous offer on the table for President Trump, and that it was President Trump who decided to walk away from what they saw as a very good deal initially both sides kept up a good face during the summit with Kim telling reporters he would discuss getting rid of his nuclear weapons if I'm not willing to do that. I wouldn't be here right now. But things went south source tells CNN when the US refused to lift all sanctions in exchange for Kim's offer to only shut down his main nuclear fuel factory and President Trump wants to way, sometimes you have to walk. And this was just one of those times North Korea says the only requested a partial lifting of sanctions a plan signing ceremony was cancelled along with lunch and Kim was left feeling bewildered. A source tells CNN today, President Trump held out hope the relationship he wants described his falling in love won't now fall apart. I would be. The negative way. If he did anything that was not her our understanding, but we'll see what happens endless say what's happening does not appear to be positive at this North Korean facility where rockets are tested. Satellite photos show, new activity, Kim had been dismantling it last year after tensions with the US began to thaw, but by Saturday the walls had been rebuilt and by Wednesday, the roof was restored a State Department official says the US has not yet determined whether the site is now operational again, but his watching it closely and will ask North Korea for an explanation. Analysts say the big question now is whether the two leaders relationship is broken or if they'll try to patch things up and reach a deal. Again, what comes next was the Hanoi summit end of chapter one of diplomacy between the two countries. Or was it the end of diplomacy between these two countries and to something much worse. Frankly, come next. It's impossible to know. Whether the North Koreans are actually preparing for a launch. You're putting on some sort of a show for the benefit of spy satellites, but wolf all the indications according to these two analysts I've spoken with it. Does seem the North Korea may be preparing to launch something again possibly in the very near future. We'll keep following deeply irritate the president of the United States. We're gonna have a lot more in the next hour. Don't go too far away. We'll we're going to stay on top of this story. And there's more breaking news reforming as well. President Trump accuses his former fixer in lawyer of lying to congress claiming Michael Kohn asked him directly for apartment.

President Trump president Michael Cohen Paul Manafort Michael Kohn White House Bill shine attorney perjury Mr president congress CNN United States special counsel Trump White House chairman congressman investigator White House Justice department
Trump's money man

Today, Explained

24:39 min | 2 years ago

Trump's money man

"I learned a whole lot hosting today. Explain this week about Canadian politics and about toothbrushes, I learned that the quip has thousands of verified five star reviews and is backed by over twenty thousand dental professionals. I also learned that quip starts at twenty five dollars. And if you go to get quip dot com slash explained right now, you get your first refill pack for free with a quip electric toothbrush. That's your first refill pack free at G E T Q, IP dot com slash explained. Last week. I was like I'm sure a lot of you were rivet head by the Michael Cohen hearings. And I kept hearing this one name come up again. And again. Allen Weisselberg that's signed by Alan Weisselberg in the office. With me was Allan Weisselberg. The chief financial officer of the Trump organization. I was at the time with Alan Weisselberg there. Other people that we should be meeting with Alan Weisberg. Ellen Weisselberg certainly knows more than anybody Sarah about Donald Trump's finances. Congressional investigations are heating up Democrats want to use their new house majority to dig into Trump's finances. Six house committees onto subpoena power or now poised to examine every facet of President Trump's life his campaign. His White House is foundation and the business that made him famous Ellen Weisselberg who's a reticent quiet man who has not sought the limelight is suddenly going to be I think one of the pivotal forces and helping people better understand the answers to all of those questions. Tim o'brien? You are executive editor of Bloomberg opinion. You're the author of Trump nation, you probably know more about President Trump's finances than President Trump might or nearly the other person, and you are probably the best person to ask about Alan Weisselberg. This name who kept coming up during the Cohen hearings. Who is this guy Ellen Weisselberg showing the Trump organization when Donald Trump's father, Fred ran it and Allen was the accountant for the Trump's back in the seventies. So he handled all of the founders business dealings as well as his personal finances and Weisselberg over the years, graduated to becoming the chief financial officer CFO of the Trump organization and in that capacity. He handles the financing on most major purchases Trump does both as an individual. And as a business person. He's hand. Pulled the president's personal income tax returns any as one of two people in the organization other than Trump himself through which no deal could pass without his blessing. The other one's a guy named Jason green Blatt who was a lawyer there and his now Trump's special envoy to Israel. And now that he has come up a lot in these congressional hearings. What can members of congress do to get information from him? What should they be asking? For. Can they force him to appear in front of a committee? They can certainly force Allen Weisselberg to appear in front of a committee. Probably wouldn't be wise for anyone at this stage that the house is looking at simply blow off an invitation to come and talk at this point, the various house committees have also asked for voluntary disclosure or sharing of information that's already been shared with other investigators when push comes to shove. And this investigation gets more traction subpoenas could be issued, and then you're gonna have some real legal clashes. I suspect that Allen Weisselberg, of course, will show up. I suspect also that his lawyer will advise him not to cooperate as fully probably as some members of congress would like him to that doesn't mean however that he is not hugely important and he's hugely important because of the classic investigative reporting advice of follow the money. But what happens if he pleads the fifth refuses to answer questions like is that a scenario that seems likely it does. And I think that. That's when the whole issue of of Congress's subpoena power in these committees subpoena power will will come into play. You know, specifically when you look at people like Adam Schiff, and Jerry Nadler, they're both trained attorneys what we learned from the common. Testimony was at the he directly implicated the president in in various crimes, both while seeking the officer present and while in the White House, they know the ins and outs of the law. We're also looking at persistent allegations that the Russians have been laundering money through the Trump organization. I don't know that that's true. But it is again, it's a profound compromise of this president. You don't know that that's true who can answer that question for you. Who do you need to talk to? We'll we'll need to talk to some of the banks that have been doing business with Mr. Trump, but we also will want to speak with the accountants that chief financial officers for the Trump organization and Adam Schiff just hired a cracker Jack person to lead his legal team is investigative team. Dan, Goldman who's a veteran of the southern district. They know their ways around how to deal with witnesses who don't wanna cooperate. So I think there could be some legal jousting here. But we're at a point now where where the Trump family and people who work for the Trump organization can't simply look away or flick their nose at these issues around financial conflicts of interest or potential financial improprieties. I it won't be up to them to just walk away. From it. The wheels of Justice are in motion. In now. The president had this to say about these investigations show. Now, they go and morph into let's inspect every deal. He's ever done. We're going to go into his finances. Wigan cheque's deals Wigan to check. These people are sick. This. I saw little shifty shifty yesterday. Oh, a first time. So if you are Adam Schiff, what questions are you going to be asking why Silbert what should they ask? Well, I think there's some broad silos for those Sarah. I think that certainly the president's dealings with foreign entities that either purchased properties that he was in control over involved with or moved money through those properties to see if they were a conduit for dirty money and hence worthy. Trump's in any fashion. Running a money laundering operation in their hotels, or condominiums golf courses did Trump as a business person in an individual make fair and honest representation to insurers and banks when he did business with them those were issues that Michael Kohn raise last week. I know from my own reporting over the years that obviously he has a humongous issue with the banks because he routinely inflated how much money he had. Had to banks into the media for decades. And Trump Susie you at some point and all of this. Correct. I covered him for the New York Times on and off. And then out of that. I wrote a book about him in two thousand and five called Trump nation and in two thousand and six he sued me for libel. I think it's the largest libel lawsuit in US history. He sued me how congrats only journalists. They congrats to that. What did he sue you over? He will sued me for six billion dollars, which was and that wasn't. I got as an advance. And it was the difference essentially between what I said his net worth was. And how much he said it was he was telling me at the time that he was worth six billion. My sources had him in the low hundreds of millions. But because he sued me, I got access to his tax return through my lawyers all of his Bank records and business records, and we litigated with Trump's from two thousand and six till two thousand eleven his case cut this missed in two thousand nine he appealed it. And he lost again on appeal in two thousand eleven. Wow. That is a wild story. I think the first time I heard of Allen Weisselberg. It was this past summer when there was chatter that he might be cooperating with the US attorney's office in Manhattan. Federal prosecutors have granted immunity to the chief financial officer of the Trump organization in exchange for his testimony in Michael Cohen's case. And he reportedly gave him information about hush money payments made to to women during the two thousand sixteen presidential campaign. And do we know if Weisselberg is he also talking to Muller as well? I don't know how the Muller team could have avoided speaking to him if they're looking at the money question around quid pro quos between the Kremlin and the Trump campaign, and then the Trump White House, but there's been no public record of it anywhere in not at any of the indictments that have come down, thus far the sentencing memos, so. So so far, it looks like his his work has been vice will Berg's work has been confined to Manhattan am curious when you think of all these things that are going on your the legal investigations the congressional probes of his finances. What feels more significant politically to you like, do you think some Weisselberg testimony could ultimately hurt President Trump? Well, I think the broader thing going on sir is that it's televised. Because I think it makes it human and understandable and apprehensible for average Americans. And I think that the Michael Kohn testimony brought the Trump saw into people's living rooms for the first time. And we're going to have Felix sater's and Ellen Weisselberg next week. I don't think these will be the only installments of of a reality television show that the president probably never wanted to be part of. And now is there's a lot of Americans who issues around national security and foreign policy fall by the wayside issues about money and malfeasance heavy to do with money often. Don't and so there's a possibility at those kinds of issues may get greater traction in the American imagination. After the break. Tim tells us about the time that Ellen Weisselberg lost a billion dollars. Oh, and that one time he made a cameo on the apprentice, I'm Sarah cliff. This is today explained. Sean, your mom says you're you're pretty good at dental hygiene. I think I've gotten better over the years as an adult I've been good as a child. I was a mess. How were you when you were a kid, I knocked out my front teeth when I was little I frontier were gone. But now I have fake ones. I didn't know you fake. Pretty good, right? They look great product of the Canadian healthcare system. Let me tell you can the quip electric toothbrush work for fake teeth to hell you can. You know, those sensitive sonic vibrations. They feel very nice on fake teeth on real teeth, and you can obviously use the two minute timer which tells you into switch sides, you could benefit from the lack of clunky charger. And if you go to get quick dot com slash explained. Do you know what you get there right now? What is it? A free refill. It starts. Free. Refill backed by twenty thousand dental professionals G E T Q U IP dot com slash explained. Tim O'Brien you've spent all this time with Alan Weisselberg when you were reporting on Trump Inc. What is the guy like? Well, my favorite anecdote is around April of two thousand and five and they were after much delay. We're going to roll out their final assessment for me of how much money the president had. And I went into the board room in the Trump organization and the table there was piled high with all of these old deal books leather bone deal books on different transactions, which weren't really very helpful at all for determine his net worth. Because worth is how much your assets are worth minus how much debt you have against them. Ellen is standing there with a yellow legal pet, and I said Allen, do you guys have any documentation? I'm just gonna walk through with you Tim by word of mouth. And I said, okay. So we sit down and we just start ticking through every building that Trump, then take my calculator, and I add up all the numbers and the figure comes to five billion dollars. And I said Allan this only adds up to five billion dollars. And he looks kinda of goes, really? And he said I'm going to go back to my office and find that other billion did he find the other billion and he never returned? And. Ellen Weisselberg is a very nice unassuming bald guy with the handlebar moustache in glasses who grew up in Brooklyn and found himself in the Trump organization the nineteen seventies and never left. He's been there since the early nineteen seventies. So how does man spend almost fifty years in the employee of one company that has a take no prisoners and mind, no independence, kind of culture like the Trump organization. And I think you do that by subsuming your personality to someone else's and being a profound. Yes, man. And Ellen Weisselberg is the most profound of yes-men. He does what he's told. He never argues. He never criticizes. He's a loyalist and he's doing well for himself. Do you think it's accurate to say, he's the single most important person in this Trump Inc? World, he certainly I I think among equals because he knows where all the financial bodies are buried he handled the president's tax returns. And I think the house is going to go to great lengths to try to get those and Weisselberg testimony about the president's finances. His tax returns in his business dealings all could open a Pandora's box of issues that the house could pursue to great effect. So here's this guy who spent nearly five decades working for the Trump's is being this profound. Yes, man. The only key to a long career or is. He also this guy who really admires Donald Trump. Well, I think he's someone who's uniquely comfortable in turning over his identity and his independence Donald Trump. Which isn't the case for a lot of people who go through the Trump organization, and because Donna? Trump first and foremost is a performance artist and first and foremost thrives on being the center of attention anytime anyone around him starts to become the center of attention themselves. The clock begins ticking on their long jetty, and in Ellen Wieslaw bergh's case, he's been a survivor the Trump organization for so long because he's been willing to and wanting to stay out of the out of the limelight. He's a numbers cruncher. He is the quintessential boring accountant, it's also worth remembering that, it was Alkap owns accountant who finally put Capone in jail than anything else that Al Capone was doing, and it's often the money guys and the boring counts who can cause trouble for their bosses because they know where the money is he appeared I think a couple of times on the apprentice at different times Trump rolled everyone from his organization through that show for little cameo appearance. And it was one of the final board appearances where they had to decide who was fired and Donald looked over to get Alan's input. So it wasn't a huge star. Turn. Should you more a little allies of services, washing grooming? Trimming Visayan out of all the money. You raised five percent of what charity two thousand nine hundred do they actually massage dogs from what I'm told? They do Donald what? I mean, the best one ever is the Matt calamari appearance on the apprentice mad calamari is the chief operating officer of the Trump organization who had been Trump's bodyguard for quite a long time. Trump hired him after seeing him beat the heck out of somebody one summer and decided I want somebody like that working for me, although he's never had any business training. And he appeared on the apprentice once and got incredible stagefright. You know, I don't have the gen very much got to be honest with you. Because. Wow. Because. Well, not doing very big guy. He's like six four very well built as long as we're on this. This is another thing. It's someone that some point should do mashups of the Trump's business prowess on YouTube video mashups, there's a great one. We're Howard Stern interviews vodka. Don, jR, and the Potter familias question at one point seven teen six practically six ninety four. And Don, jR, cannot do it in his head and starts stumbling vodka begins making fun of him laughing. And then Howard Stern tells her will then you do it smarty, and she can't. The father to rescue the children jumps in and says, the correct answer is he's rocking back and forth on his is is. Eleven inch eleven twelve its in house stern begins swearing and says what kind of new math is that. It's not eleven twelve. What are you talking about? Junior. But I've taken you far off track here. I'm sorry. Have you tried calling up Alan Weisselberg to talk to him? You know, send this stuff started unfolding. I have not largely 'cause I'm certain I'd be wasting my time I have over the last few years called the Trump organization on a number of occasions to get comment on various things that I've been writing and they don't call me back. They don't you mail me. They just leave me alone said dear my pen left sitting in that conference room wondering where the billion dollars. Stood up by the Trump's once again to shea. Yes, exactly. Do you think Ellen Weisselberg life as a private citizen is about to change? Those days are over. You know investigations like this when you look back at all on the sort of nondescript or side players in the Watergate saga who no one had heard of became household names when that rolled into TV and onto the front page of newspapers from John dean, I began by telling the president that there was a cancer growing on the presidency to Martha Mitchell. Watergate shut up. So what to John Mitchell? Gordon liddy? I'm well. Thank you, very vigorous potent second all those good things all of these people who up until that point most Americans hadn't heard of became household names because they had to give testimony on TV about fail. You aware of installation of any listening devices and the Oval Office of the president. I was aware of lessening devices. Yes, sir. And fourteen million. People watched Michael Kohn testify, which I think's extraordinarily given. How long it was? And how much Manusha was involved in the testimony? I think Alawites Berg is going to be a more recognized name that he probably ever wanted at a minimum. And is that something the president should be worried about are we at some kind of turning point for the Trump presidency. I think what's interesting about where we arrived is the investigative pressure is high the consequences for lying are high years and years and years of Trump organizations business are now getting scrutinized, and it raises the issue of whether or not it will end up being every man or woman for themselves or not, and I don't think many people in the Trump organization are willing to go to prison or face financial penalties or see their own reputations completely savaged in order to protect Donald Trump Wasil begs the guy who stuck there for five decades is he the one who's willing to go down with the ship. I don't think Alan Weisselberg. We'll go down with the ship. He understands that in the Trump organization. Loyalty is a one way street. Everybody knows that about Donald Trump that you never get back from him. What you give him and most of the time for some of them that probably doesn't matter. But most of the time was I don't know what we call it PM premolar. And most of that time was pre US attorney and most of it was pre-, Adam Schiff and pre J Nadler, pre magazine waters and pre Elijah Cummings and pre three different state attorney general investigations. There is an intense legal vice closing in around these folks. And I just don't understand why any of them would be willing to spend the significant portion of their time in prison if it comes to that in order to protect someone who might not have protected them under the same circumstances. Tim O'Brien is executive editor of Bloomberg opinion and the author of Trump nation. This is today explained I'm Sarah cliff filling in this week for Sean Rama's firm who will be back on Monday. I will be back to some of the other podcasts, I host here at vox, even though I've had so much fun on this one. You can find me over on the weeds where we talk about all sorts of policy issues. You can also find me on the impact it is our show devoted to how policy affects people here today explained. Irene Noguchi is our executive producer Britain Carthy is our editor. No, I'm hasn't felt in Luke Vander blue produce, and we had a bunch of health from Jillian Weinberger a fume. Shapiro is our engineer and Sione petrous is our intern and brake master cylinder makes music for us. But I didn't even get to meet him or her while I was guest hosting today explained is produced in association with Stitcher and were part of the vox media podcast network. If you like the show. Rate and review us on itunes. It would be a big help. Now that it is time to head into the weekend. I figured you might wanna do that with some facts about toothbrushes like the quip, which is a better electric toothbrush. Created by dentists and designers to make brushing your teeth simpler, more forcible and even more enjoyable quip starts twenty five dollars. And if you go to get quip dot com slash explained. Now, you get your first refill free. That's your first refill pack free at ET q. 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Trump organization President Trump Trump president Ellen Weisselberg Allen Weisselberg Trump Inc Donald Trump Alan Weisselberg Trump Susie Trump White House Tim o'brien Donald Trump Wasil Adam Schiff Michael Kohn Allan Weisselberg Sarah cliff accountant Michael Cohen
Lanny Davis: Michael Cohen will expose Trump to Congress, coordinate with Mueller

The Beat with Ari Melber

48:39 min | 2 years ago

Lanny Davis: Michael Cohen will expose Trump to Congress, coordinate with Mueller

"We begin tonight with the news rocking, the Trump White House. Michael Cohen is ready for his John dean moment, Trump's former lawyer will testify in public to the US congress. Now, this is in response to a formal request from House Democrats, he will speak on February seventh which he confirmed in a statement late today, pledging a full and credible account of the events which transpired, and he knows a lot about them that would seem to include Michael Coen's knowledge of Donald Trump of the Trump organization, we're Cohn worked for a decade and held the senior title and presumably some of the lies that we do already know Michael Cohen told apparently on Donald Trump's behalf the hearing as a matter of when it is it's timing. Well, just weeks before Cohen is scheduled to report to prison. Now, let's be clear. This will be an on camera public hearing with public testimony. That's already begun conjuring. Some comparisons to the Nixon era was Coen's own. Visor Lanny Davis who recently said quote, remember John dean, it's just the beginning. Dean was famously Richard Nixon's trusted lawyer until he wasn't any went from Nixon confidante to star witness for the other side on Raveling key parts of Watergate in public even as critics at the time attacked his perceived credibility will Michael Cohen emergence similar role as you consider these two White House tile lawyers. Will he reveal things he's only told to prosecutors up to this point? And why is Michael Cohen planning to apparently tell all under oath before he begins his prison sentence, while let's tackle those questions right now on the breaking news with former Watergate special prosecutor, Nick Akron, and a former federal prosecutor my widely who served in the office that prosecuted Coen's case could even the both of you Nick, how did your approach to John dean as he was preparing for testimony were. Workout in the Watergate example, and what do you think is important about Michael Cohen announcer the world today, he's going to do a couple of things. When John dean testified he was given immunity by the Senate select committee, the first thing I did for Archie Cox when he was special prosecutor was to put together all of the evidence that we had on John dean. So we could show that we had evidence independent of the testimony. He was going to give before the Senate anytime you have a witness who's going to testify other than in court for the prosecutor. It's always a problem for the prosecutor. Secondly, John dean is not nearly as important as Michael Cohen is in terms of Trump John dean was not that close to Richard Nixon. He had some important meetings with Richard Nixon, but he was not his personal lawyer. Let's pause on that some people view the John dean comparison as a potential inflation as a dramatization you're saying it doesn't go far enough to capture just how. How much Michael Cohen knows about Donald Trump's exactly right? Michael Cohen is much more intimately involved with the day to day activity of Donald Trump and was involved nowhere near as close. As John dean was in fact, if you look at even the other two cooperating witnesses that are involved, Michael Flynn, and the deputy campaign manager to Manafort, I mean, these people are much higher up in the food chain. Then John dean ever was in terms of having day to day contact with the president. Yeah. You agree with all that I take I agree. I think this is potentially even more important than the Muller report. And the reason is because we don't know what we will finally have as public from the mullahs report when it's finally written. This is a central witness with direct factual information. Remember that in the sentencing memo's what we heard is that Michael Cohen was not only directed by the president at the beginning of his presidential campaign to have direct contact with Russians in order to move forward. His business interests. We know that there was a transfer from his campaign manager, Paul Manafort of campaign data to all to Oleg der Pasca who was a very close. Putin aligned all dark, we know that Michael Cohen. Remember said he wasn't in Prague for meeting in the summer of two thousand sixteen. And now, we know that there were cell phone data that demonstrated that he seems like it was leased close. What does that suggest there's and that in that sensing Momo one of the things that the Muller team said was that he was correcting misstatements about interaction with Russians accept them. Don't know what those mistakes are two things here. One small and one large small is that the times alternately updated the reporting about which oligarch, so that's still sort of being tracked down large is. I just want to repeat what Maya Wiley one of our trusted analysts here saying you'd think this news tonight, and what Michael Cohen could say under oath to congress could literally be bigger than the molar report. Well, in the sense that Muller knows more. I don't mean the Muller importance unimportant or not central. But I mean, we don't because we know there will be a fight about what parts of the model. Report we might be able to hear this is a central witness who will speak directly and publicly, and we don't know the substance, obviously, but it's the potential to answer some very big questions that make it completely clear to the public directly that there was actual knowledge on the part of Donald Trump potentially of engagement with Russians around influencing which goes goes Nick to the lies, which is we have an individual who has confessed to at least one lie to congress, and Maya just put a finger on it was he lying for himself. Was he lying to say? Oh, I should get a job or I should get something for myself. It would appear the entire live about Trump Tower was to help Donald Trump hide something they felt they needed hidden. And yet I see how eager you are to get it. And yet, it's my obligation as a reporter to press the other side, there are more than one side to these cases. And the other side is what you dealt with them. Why they're gonna wanna play some John dean. And have you stitch it back together? What about the other side when people around Trump say this person, Mr. Cohen is a committed liar an admitted felon, and thus what about his credibility. Why is that worth anything? And here's our that came up, as you know, although dean did prove to be quite the witness, but it did come up and attacks on on Johnny take a look. What makes you think that your credibility is greater than that of the president? Who denies what you have said? Well, Senator Ivan asked I'm up here and tell the truth, I've told it exactly the way, I know it I'm telling you what I know. I'm telling you. Just as I know it. This. How does that relate to John dean ultimately proved to be truthful, and damaging the Nixon, and how do you relate that to comb? Okay. Definitely later turned out that he was corroborated completely by the White House tapes. But I think what is really significant here is up to this point the big difference with Watergate was very early on. After Cox was appointed may have seventy three in by June of seventy three John dean was testifying in the American public actually had a narrative of what happened that the story was out there right now we've been trying to put that story together on this show and other areas. What what Michael Cohen potentially is going to do is provide the narrative of what happened or at least a good part of what happened, and that's what we're missing right now. That's what you're I think the implication that you make their matches. What my is getting at which is a while, the reporters committee will be fascinating for whatever complete narrative it gives so little of that has been in public view that to hear from this. Individual. We'll say more as for what he intends to say. We reported his statement. It's it's quite crisp. It doesn't really give a list. But then, you know, sometimes Twitter can make you dumber. And sometimes it can make you more. Then I can tell you as I was walking out to the newsroom here to the set. Michael Cohen, re tweeted, a journalist David corn. I think our viewers will remember who wrote this Cummings announces Cohen will testify much to ask him beyond hush money payments campaign. Finance crime Cohen can discuss Trump dealings in Russia and reaching out to Putin's office and so much more. Buckle up that is the latest by re tweet from Cohen. Go ahead. A fit. Yeah. That's going to be the narrative, I say anything anymore. So I know into to small Mike are you going to drop not what I'm looking for. Can I have a camera can I go, but? But no this. This is exactly. So we don't know. And I think to your point which is extremely important. It's the bigger question is how credible is Michael Cohen going to be to the American public and how much corroboration because we know the response is going to be he's lied before. He's lying. Now. The difference though, is that we have been told, and we have indication that he has been highly cooperative. Muller himself has said this is someone who has been cooperative. And he no longer has any thing to gain no longer needing to gain. Indeed, this is the very unusual situation of the sitting presidents lawyer saying to the country tonight. And this is the first time, I know when we cover this stuff. People say there's so much going on. This is the first time the sitting presidents lawyer has said to the nation I need to speak under oath which carries legal liability before I go to prison. He's going potentially for up to three years and he's doing it then, but you mentioned the cooperation. This is what the federal prosecutors in New York we've been covering of tough office. This is how they put it to be clear quote Cohen repeatedly declined to provide what they called full information, specifically declined to be debriefed on other uncharged criminal conduct. If any in his past, my what do you say to people who point to that coming at SDN, y that is not Hannity that is not Fox News that is S T N Y. Federal prosecutors saying not full info, this is an important point. It is the the distinction here is Muller has Muller's team has said forthcoming s STAN y has said not s Dan why I think rightly has said his his cooperation with us was supposed to be about anything and everything and he was unwilling apparently to be forthcoming about potential crimes of others. Not connected to Russia. Right. So we got to clean, you gotta. Clean book a health from Muller, but not from from the New York fed something I'm going to ask Lanny Davis when he joins us later tonight. Go ahead. Why to the southern district about these facts track? Use them. They just refused to hit a very unusual. Relive arrangement there normally when somebody comes in they cooperate. They sign an agreement. He didn't do that to sign an agreement to testify and provide full information about everything he knew he knew he was going to jail for a good period of time because of his tax Bank violations that was given. And I think is only get out of jail card here is to testify for Muller testify before congress because he's still has within a year of his sentence. The opportunity to go before the sentencing judge and ask for a reduction based on this cooperation. And when you say cooperation, are you suggesting that it may be in Michael Cohen's interest to be as full and accurate as possible before congress, and then take that to the judge additional public reason to to give him some extra leniency. Absolutely, absolutely. To be able to go to the judge and say, look, I testified truthfully before congress, I told the American people what I did. I told the American people what they had to worry about with this particular president. And what this particular president did. And I broke open this whole case. And was the first person that provide the narrative as to what really happened to you. As is often the case, I learned things from both of you would I've just learned from you. As a part of what your analysis suggests is Michael Collins rationale is a question I will put directly to Lanny Davis as legal adviser when he joins me later in the show. So we'll find out if he agrees with what you say is is motivating Mr. Cohen, Nick Ackerman. Thank you, my stay, right. With me. I want to bring you into another segment in a moment coming up as mentioned Lanny Davis, Michael Collins advisor and former lawyer joins me to discuss all of this breaking news. Also, we'll hear from congresswoman Jackie speier who may question Cohen behind closed doors. Rumors about that tonight and Donald Trump trying to rewrite his own history, whether Mexico as promised, we'll pay for the wall. I would say Mexico's going to pay for it. Obviously. I never said this, and I never meant to write out a check they'll pay in one form or another. They may even write a subject. A huge huge lie. We have the fact check. But also, we go deeper on why Donald Trump is just so bad horrifically embarrassingly at the deals. He claims he was good at two insiders here. A former longtime exact with the Trump organization and the co author of the art of the deal Tony Schwartz. In other words, what I'm saying? We have a lot left in this show. I'm Ari Melber. You're watching the beat on MSNBC. The top story rallying the White House tonight. Michael Cohen talking and already since we've been reporting this out more Democrats pouncing you have one confirmed. Michael Cohen appearance. That's what we've been reporting. But also now what looks to be two new additional request. Because look at this. The house intelligence committee chairman says it's necessary for Coen to speak with them. And tonight, we're hearing the Senate intelligence committee has Democrats reviewing conversations about trying to bring Michael Cohen back as well. If people are wondering was Washington going to be very different with the Democrats in charge. Well, we're starting to see that in the house Coen's prior testimony. Remember was always under wraps. No one got to see it live. That's why it wasn't a John dean moment this time for a lot of reasons. It's going to be very different. Let's get right to it congresswoman speier says a member of the house intelligence committee, Maya Wiley, also back with me congresswoman, you made some waves talking about why you wanted Donald Trump junior to testify under subpoena. If necessary why is that important, and what is your reaction to Michael Cohen tonight agreeing become face the house. Well, first of all, I do think that Donald Trump junior should face the music and come back to the committee after we have done a subpoena documents and have him testify once again, I think Michael Cohen's willingness now to testify before the oversight committee and requests, no doubt will be made for him to come and speak in a classified setting with members of the intelligence committee is very important. The one thing that's happened. With Michael Cohen is that he has in some respects gotten religion. Whether he is truthful on all matters or not I think he recognizes that he has everything to gain in the long term by actually telling the truth, and he is certainly not. To get any kind of a pass from the president of the United States. So I think we're going to hear some legitimate commentary from him. That's interesting. So your view here. Even though obviously he has confessed to misleading as a very body that you're in congress. But he has also according to the law, and according to the Muller findings that we just referenced it earlier in the show where they granted him for cooperation, you call the getting religion, your view is at this point, your belief is that he would be a very credible witness at this point. I think he's much more credible. He's not going to get a pardon for the president United States. He tape recorded many conversations, it was in those tape recorded conversations that we found out that the president once again, lied relative to store began yells and Karen McDougal because he was in the room when both of those payoffs were being discussed. So I think tapes at once again are going to give us a lot of answers. Stay with me, my widely as I mentioned is here. My when you look at all of this and the discussion of what to make of Mr. Cohen's conduct and testimony. He actually stayed out of the public view for quite some time during this period when he did speak once after all the sentencing came out he was very clear with George Stephanopoulos. And that interview about what he thinks of his old, boss. Donald Trump's credibility. Take a look. The special counsel did say that you were doing your best to tell the truth about everything related to their investigation. Everything related to Russia. Do you think President Trump is telling the truth about that? How important is that figure in when you have a president because who's going to be debating a witness? Visit presumably I will I think it's incredibly important because you have someone again with direct knowledge of not just some specific transactions that will be at issue, but literally the behavior and the way the president has operated as a person in the world for a decade. So this is someone who knows and has said that he was directed by the now president then. A candidate for office to make payments. We haven't really talked about this because of the Russian example of this. But we're talking about someone who literally hid and violated campaign finance laws that are in and of themselves crimes and contested by more directly to the American public to congress about crime that goes exactly to something that we just got into the newsroom in congresswoman I'd like to build them up. My mentioned in play for you, which is a congressman Cummings talks about the limitations on what they might expect to hear from Mr. Cohen, of course, as just referenced on our broadcast much of those campaign crime issues were not in the Muller probes. So presumably they could be discussed. Let's look at what you're calling just said moments ago. Russia. Congresswoman, I'm sure you recognize what what they sometimes. Call a scrum there, which was your colleague on camera is overwhelmed by reporters with their phones out. But what he saying very clearly is they're going to focus on what does not interfere with Muller in your view in the Cohen case. What would that involve publicly and what else might involve at the intelligence committee does hear from him privately? So what I'm told is that Mr. Khan wants to tell his full story. So it will probably be outside of the issues relative to the campaign, which he was directed to make these payments. But there are probably many other aspects of his ten years with Donald Trump that will come into focus, whether it's the Moscow hotel or the other various hotels, which Donald Trump invested in Toronto in SoHo and in Panama. I mean, I think what we really gonna find over the long run is the money. Laundry that went on very volition -ly by Donald Trump's organization is probably what's going to bring him down. Don't we have to call it a ledge money laundering at this point? Or are you breaking news with confirmation of that tonight? But I would think that the Foreign Corrupt practice. Zach required him to make sure the money that he was receiving whether it was for the purchase of condos or for those investing with him in the properties in Toronto. And so and Panama would have to be clearly reviewed to make sure that they were not money laundered. And so many of those individuals were in fact persons that were oligarchs that were laundering money in my new congresswoman speier, also very interesting stuff. Thanks to both you in my Wiley for joining me. Thank you as promise I turned out to Lanny Davis. Michael Cohen, former lawyer and legal adviser and a veteran of many White House conflicts, including the Clinton era investigations, first of all this is a big news night for you. And Michael Collins. Thank you for coming on the beat Lanny. Well, thank you having the, and I am now back to being legal adviser for the purpose of helping Michael these congressional inquiries. So let's start there. What does today's announcement? The first time Mr. Cohen has ever confirmed publicly that he will address the congress and the public. What does this mean? Well, first of all Michael's family is in severe distress as Michael because he's going to be going to prison in about six or seven weeks. And Secondly, he wanted inoperability after his life has been so virtually destroyed he wants an opportunity to at least tell the truth as he said to Mr. Stephanopoulos on July second and recently about what it was like working for a man in the private sector who lies acts immorally or abusively and has no barriers on ethics. What is it like when you actually realize? This very say man who Michael admit to shamefully helping in his private sector job as an attorney when he recognized the same end was now president of the United States. He wants to tell the story about what caused him to change and to now want to tell the truth. How dangerous it is to have this very same man who acted this way in the private sector to the powers of the presidency. And how dangerous that is for his family and for his country will Mr. Coen's testimony reflect a very busy executive and candidate Donald Trump who was out of the loop or a detail oriented one who knew what was going on on his behalf inside the Trump organization. Well, he'll answer the questions. Truthfully. What it was like working for Donald Trump? He has told me many times nothing went on inside Trump Tower that Donald Trump didn't know it was kind of a. Rotating door in and out of his office. And he'll get into anecdotal personal memories of what it was like to work for trumpet. I just want to clarify something earlier. The only time that Michael has admitted to lying was lying on Mr. Trump's behalf not for Michael cones benefit. But at the time even consulting with the White House on the lie about the Moscow tower in that Trump was involved in those discussions all the way through even Mr. Giuliani says through November saying six years saying Michael Cohen consulted with White House staff about that misleading testimony to congress. It's a matter of public record that he did talk to White House officials point was which officials. Well, I don't know now and won't say now, what specific officials there are matters that Mr. Muller is looking into that we are going to be careful about but I did want. You think I'm gonna let you make your point. But just on this. Do you think that Mr. Cohen will be in a position to name names in that testimony? I don't know we're still going to be looking for guidance from this Jamila as I know mister Cummings is and I wanna clarify. How does how does that? I'll let you get there. But just what we finished up. How does that work? Do you lawyer to lawyer Lanny I gotta do it do you and the other folks on this team proactively call a special counsel's office to find out the boundaries for this testimony? Or how does this work? This is a somewhat unusual situation. Yes, for sure I know mister Cummings has an I intend to be sure that the areas under investigations by Mr. Muller and others. He will not be able to answer. And I do want to get the opportunity in here to clarify no agreement has been reached with the Senate or the house intelligence committees. But I will say that during some conversations today have to consult my client, Mr.. Cohen. There will be no need for a subpoena. We are voluntarily testifying before mister Cummings and the truth will now empower Michael Cohen. The Michael truth dot com is I hope going to be looked at by the American people to help Michael Kohn through this. Ordeal. And I also do want to remind you that on this program. I mentioned the disproportionate prison time that Michael Cohen is now forced to endure compared to many others who have much more grave offenses compared to his disproportionate injustices. An issue that I hope I will bring to the attention the American people. I did I on your program. You mentioned two things one is is as you say, a how the federal prosecutors in New York handled this and the sentencing, which as you mentioned is something we've been reporting on and discuss with you. Let's take both the two points. Just raise. I you're referencing. The fact that in addition to tonight's news that Mr. Cohen will address the Democrats house requests and the oversight committee. There's other discussions with other committees. So landing when you say tonight that no subpoenas airy are you suggesting that you are close to having volunteer agreement to address other committees as requested to consult with my client. This is all very new today. But the answer is we have had constructive discussions. I don't want to name the specifics. But I know that Mr. cone wants to be voluntary wants to be truthful his days for lying for Donald Trump being directed to do a crime paying hush money to corrupt the potential election, which he did at the direction, Mr. Trump those days are over. He's now committed to telling the truth, and we will work with the other committees to answer your question to be voluntary rather than to be under a spin. Right. And so what I hear you to be saying that it's very possible that there could be an agreement for him to do more than one of. Currence? Although you're not yet confirming that I take your point as for the other issue raised this came up earlier in the show with Nick Akron, who many of our viewers know who has Watergate experience he was saying that it may be the case that a truthful and full account before the house by Mr. Cohen could help in reducing his sentence in the future through the legal process. That occurs is that in your view possible. Is it a goal that's been discussed? It's certainly my aspiration my hope, and I will remind your viewers that Mr. Muller praised Mr. Cohen, while also obtaining a guilty plea for the lies regarding the Moscow tower matter praised Mr. cone for cooperation, even the southern district of New York. Prosecutors praised him for being credible and the judge did as well. I'm hoping. Yes, the answer your question. Ari? Is that by looking at? The actual length of the sentence. He's taken responsibility to all of the crimes that he confessed to his allocution. But the length of the sentence compared to others who've done far worse to me together with his testimony and his commitment to the truth. And let me remind your audience is already said he would not accept a pardon from Donald Trump if it was offered, and I am sure it won't be offered. He's committed to the truth and the Michael Kohn, truth dot com. I've got to give that a plug again is about helping him and his family as he goes off to prison for now a three year term that we'll be reduced to look at that one. Is you're doing your job, which is advocating for this individual that you represent it. And he and his family have a great personal interest. Obviously in any potential reduction of the sentence the other way to look at it is for people who are simply following this at a distance and wondering who's telling the truth. Truth in an environment. Where I think you, and I could agree Washington. Does not feel normal things. Do not seem to be working. And there's a lot of people accusing each other of lying does the fact that Mr. Cohen has that he has in his family has an incentive here to be truthful to avoid or reduce prison time does that in your view make him potentially a more credible witness against Donald Trump when he speaks to the house. Well, I would simply quote the answer is yes Ari. I would quote, Mr. Muller who praised him for seventy hours and seven days of conversation and cooperation, and whatever credibility issues that have been raised that he has confessed to remind everyone was for the benefit of Donald Trump and his admission to complicity in a neighboring Donald Trump any work from the private sector has now been converted into fear for our country and our family knowing Donald Trump's flaws. Deeply flawed character traits that we now are witnessing as endangering our country. Appreciate you coming here to share your views on this big news night as I was mentioning earlier. It's not every night in American history that you have a situation like this a former lawyer to a president pledging to address the public under oath before he goes to prison, and as a pass lawyer for that lawyer, I really appreciate you walking through your perspective tonight. Lanny thank you for having me on. Thank you, sir. What we're going to do is fit in a very short thirty second break and come back with the man that Michael Cohen was re tweeting tonight about Russia issues. David corn as well as reaction from Nick Ackerman. We'll be right back. Saying very clearly that he never directed. You to do anything wrong. Is that true? I don't think there's anybody that believes that for so nothing at the Trump organization was ever done unless it was run through Mr. Trump. He directed me as I said in my obligation. And I said as well the plea he directed me to make the payments. He was trying to hide what you were doing correct. Correct. Any knew it was wrong. Of course, Michael Cohen making waves and now pledging to testify in response to Democrats request in the house. David corn Washington chief from other Jones joins me, Nick Akron is back. David. What is your view of both the news that Michael Kohn is doing this? And what we just heard from his advisor Lanny tables. Well, we knew we were heading in this direction. Lanny and others have been talking about a big moment from Michael Kohn really seen that Michael Kohn wants this moment. And the question was, okay. When is this going to have? Happen. What committee under what auspices and also now the question is what are the limitations you noted that earlier I'm going to look at this you noted that earlier today. Michael Kohn retweeted tweeted, one of my tweets. Now, I noted in this tweet that he could talk about campaign hush money issues that he pleaded guilty to the for viewers. We've got on the screen. Okay. We've got your cartoon face, David. You're one of those people that went with the cartoon picture rather than a real one. And you say much to ask cone beyond hush money payments campaign finance crime Coen can discuss Trump dealings in Russia and reaching out to Putin's office. And he re tweeted this tonight that was interesting to me because you know, in this case, re tweet might indeed be an endorsement, but Lanny just pointed out to me during the break after you finished with him that cone is committed to not saying anything at this particular hearing that we're talking about on February seventh. That might reveal anything that Molin is still working on presumably he'll still be working. We don't know. Maybe they'll be some finale before that point. But at the same time that house intelligence committee is interested in speaking with him as our as is the Senate intelligence committee, and that may be enclosed of hearings that may become you know, maybe made public later. So I still think at the end of the day, whether it's February seventh or not comb, we'll be talking about all he knows about Donald Trump's rushing connections. And there was a very interesting line. I think unite talked about it and the molar sentencing memo about comb that came out a month ago. So can I just go through this very quickly cone provided the special counsel with useful information concerning discreet, Russian related matters core to its investigation that he obtained by virtue of his regular contact with company executives during the campaign. Executives. Yes. That'd be Donald Trump. And who knows Donald Trump junior Ivanka who else works the Trump organization. So there's still more to the Trump pushes story that Michael Kohn can tell us and whether it comes out and February seventh or not I believe Democrats now will get it. And eventually the public will learn about it. What do you think David coming from Washington of the way, this is come about that it is congressman Cummings? Scoring the ultimate witness. If you will, and then the other committee chairs quickly clamoring about how they wanna piece and what Mr. Davis confirmed that was not a full blown scoop. But is what what we might call a scoop lit. Lanny Davis made a little news tonight on this show and saying well, we're going to try to do those as well. Meaning there may be additional under oath. Opportunities for testimony. Well, you know, we've say this all the time elections have consequences for two years. You had a congress controlled by Republicans who really didn't give a damn about the Trump Russia scandal at least not in telling the public. What really went on fairness, David. I think they would say they gave at least a darn darn. Okay. But nice dam, and they tried to smother it. They try to come up with distractions on the house side. We don't know exactly what tapping the Senate intelligence committee. But now we have not just the Trump Russia stuff. Not just the hush money stuff. But whether it's a monument nepotism conflicts of interest. We have members of congress who care about oversight. Yeah. Which is a basic function of congress, you lifted out it just it sounds like several chapters Nick in criminal law textbook. Exactly. A lot of chapters criminal law textbook. I mean, the real questions going to be is Muller going to step in and not let him testify about. What is? The really juicy stuff here which all relates to Russia. I mean, the I'm going investigation here clearly is the Russian conspiracy. The one relating to the break in at the Democratic National Committee. The use of social media will allow them to do that before he comes down with an indictment on the American side, Nick and David joining me on a big news night. Thanks to both of you coming up as promised Trump's wall and unpresidential comments about where the blame should go. I've got Trump insiders Tony Schwartz and Barbara res- here right now stay with us. Donald Trump did a photo op at the border today. This is a trip he told reporters he didn't even think was worth making the shutdown gets longer. It is on set on pace to break directed for the longest shutdown by this weekend. And all this concern, the focus away from the wall and back inside the US where for load workers and protesters hitting the streets and getting attention for it. Meanwhile, US residents many saying they oppose the wall and their backyard all that has some Republicans in both chambers starting to walk away from Trump. That's a problem for the self proclaimed dealmaker who likes to be the one threatening to walk away to former insiders Trump are with me tonight to explore why his bluster isn't working this time Trump used to claim his strategy was to take things to the edge. But then make a deal one saying you take people to the brink of breaking them without having the break to get a better deal and Trump could always walk out. If he didn't get a better deal. He could walk all the way to bankruptcy. But. But the federal government can't declare bankruptcy. Can't stay closed forever. Trump insisted Mexico would pay for the whole wall. He didn't push them to the brink of breaking or get them to cover say half the walls cost or a quarter. He got nothing. Then you got nothing from the US congress for the wall. And when called and all that Trump says now the buck doesn't stop with the president anymore. Watch this sad decline. Mexico's paying for the wall. Okay. It's an issue of police importantly dollars. We have to finally do the wall will pay for self on a monthly basis. Over this the book sap food everybody. I want to bring in special guest Barbara arrests. Former Trump organization executive she's also the author of all alone on the sixty floor and Tony Schwartz co author of the art of the deal, a friend of the beaten, the author of the way, we work isn't working wonderful to have both of you here seated together for your expertise, Barbara it is easy to normalize. What should not be normal? So for your view, the man, you know, I wanna replay that last moment the president nited states on where the buck stops. Take a look. Doc with you over this shutdown the books food everybody. What kind of deal making always seeing here? Yeah. I thought he was a great deal. Make it to be honest with you and terms of taking the responsibility for the buck. I just wouldn't have to it. It's not in his DNA. He's never responsible. It is always someone else's fault. Yeah. I found myself going back to the art of the deal and looking over those deals that I unfortunately, described thirty years ago, and realizing that most of those deals in that book were failures and the number of deals he's made over the years since then have overwhelmingly been failures. It's a accident of history that he is president. But as a dealmaker he is really one of the worst. I've ever come across. You know, when you think about deal making what is it actually require it requires understanding the other side? So it it, requires empathy. It requires humility it requires courage. These are qualities Donald Trump doesn't have in spades. And your point if the deal is about agreeing to do something real while there may be negoti. Nation and some exaggeration business. The fundamentals have to be true. Otherwise, you end up with a fraud, which is illegal even in tough business deals. Here was Donald Trump. Let's take a look claiming that he actually is honest when he goes sheets, take a look. A lot of negotiations about honesty, it'd be honest because the other side you dealing with intelligent people. They're going to see it. But have an idea make sure it's the right idea and never ever quit or give up on it. And yet he has been lying about the funding for this wall from the start. I mean, isn't that the fundamental con if someone else could be made to pay for it some people might feel differently about the proposal? That was always the proposal. Other people pay it's been fraud all along. So when you say that a deal has to be has to be legitimate or else, you're liable for fraud. Well, that hasn't stopped him in the best, and we know that he's made a series of fraudulent deals, and this is or the failure to make this deal. This is the most fraudulent attempt yet. He's got a claim about what's going on at the border. That is transparently not true. And when you look at how anti Pelosi's dealing with him. How does that compare to other people use on the other side of the table? Is she doing this the right way? She's still I think of great job and part of the reason for it is that she has his power. He does this is the very first time. I've ever seen him this situation where he doesn't have the leverage. He was a great deal make soon everybody, and he ran them dry. He'd never betray because that goes quickly. He dragged them through the courts until they've each appoint where they go broke. We'll make the deal he wanted. Now, all of a sudden these up against a woman, which is a whole of this story, and she's got as much power as heat tests. And and the circumstances. So do you think he understands that right now? No, no, I don't. So how many people this is one of those things that happens in interviews. Tony potentially unanswerable question. But how many people in America are going to have to pay for his learning curve? Because both of you have a unique insight into this ill look at the actual data. We're seeing I just wanna put up on the screen. So people understand you have thirty eight million low-income Americans that if this grinds on they're not going to have food assistance. You have eight hundred thousand people the government being a major employer going without paychecks. And of course, you have the federal court system slowing which is part of the security. He claims that this is four, you know, what has happened to humanity in a way, it's almost not about Trump because he he is lacking the shame, gene. So he doesn't care the thirty eight million three hundred eighty million words suffering just as a whole series of autocrats. He admires. Care what happens to be. But sitting behind him are fifty plus Republican senators and one hundred eighty Republican congress people for whom you would assume this would be meaningful. They're being intimidated by someone who is just barely humid. I wonder Barbara when you see how many people including the president's allies Republican members of congress public narrators and reporters who do try to be objective with ferring to him in in the way, you would refer to as six or eight year olds level of discipline. Was it always like that? I mean, when you work with him was it was it something where people said, well, he got through a whole day without a tantrum was at that narrative where has that gotten worse? It's gotten worse. And there was a time when he would actually listen to people's advise and often foul mine included, and he did he know you were a woman. Never ever treated me like a woman, and I always said that he did discriminate against because he thought it was like a woman, he didn't treat you demeaning Lee. You're saying. I do like according to the allegations. He didn't treat you the way he is accused of treating some other not never. But he he knew what was good. And he always thought it was swatted me. He told you all women when did it slide. This idea that don't talk to him before he has lunch. Don't talk to the end of the day. Oh, he got through the meeting without tantrum. I mean, that's where we're at. I think it happened. When he after Trump Tower was done. I'm left him went to Linson his corporate office bell. And then I came back, and I saw a very different. I think it's been progressive are I think, you know, you can Mark November two thousand sixteen as the biggest moment of shift, which is the more power. He has this is the classic example of power, corrupts and absolute power corrupts. Absolutely. He was corrupt when he had power. He's absolutely corrupt now and insensible to any kind of input. Right. Well, it's fascinating here from both of you. I'm also very much looking forward to I know, you may be working probably on his book when he's out of office is sort of a library and come to me. Well, we'll see you never know. Maybe there's a deal in the offing. Tony Barbara my special. Thanks. We have one more thing. You got to see when we come back. Congress has proposed ending this whole shutdown by just funding border security. Donald Trump insists it's not good enough. You need a physical wall because wall stop people appoint he actually wants argued against as the daily show found. Nothing will stop immigrants from trying to come to America and Donald Trump understands this because of this video we found from fifteen years ago never ever give don't give up. Don't allow it to happen. If there's a concrete wall in front of you, go through it. Go over go round. When this actually is not the first time Trump has mused about getting around a wall during the campaign, he oddly speculated how people might use different objects to scale the wall he planned to build which John Oliver highlighted. New ladder going over that. If they ever get up there. They're in trouble because there's no way to get down. Maybe a rope. You'll brilliant plan has been undone mankind's third invention. Maybe a rope. It is funny because it's true or not funny, depending on your point of view now tonight. The joke is an actual news story, which brings us to this the hole in the wall store, you're looking at Trump's own actual steel slap prototype, and you're looking at a giant hole in it. That was cut by a saw this is a real thing. Now, not the comedy. And this real thing was documented in a photo that NBC news obtained exclusively the photo, you're looking at meanwhile, Trump's longtime friend Howard Stern recently offered a window into this whole Trump mindset, saying the walls only appealing if you ignore the obvious examples of how to get around it. The walls of problem because of money, even Donald those that the walls a simplistic answer to our problems with immigration. It's something that you know, morons can get behind because they're like, oh, yeah. If you build a wall, no one can get over it. But it's not that simple. It's not that simple. And as you just saw the people who know that include Donald Trump recently, Donald Trump a long time ago and whoever cut the giant hole in Donald Trump's steel slat wall model. That's all the time. We have on the beat thanks for watching. Hey, it's Chris Hayes from MSNBC every day. I come to the office, and we make television show in every day. I think to myself there's so much more. I want to talk about and so this is our podcast. It's called why is this happening and the whole idea behind it is to get to the root of the things that we see out every day. They're driven by big ideas. Each week. I sit down with a person uniquely suited to explain why this is happening episodes of wise this happening every Tuesday, listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

President Trump Michael Cohen Donald Trump Trump president congress Mr. Muller Trump Tower White House Michael Coen Lanny Davis John dean Trump White House Michael Kohn US Russia congress congressman Cummings New York
The Weeds fixes racism

Vox's The Weeds

57:16 min | 2 years ago

The Weeds fixes racism

"The road it on your own. Okay. Hello, welcome to another episode of the weeds on the vox media podcast network. Matthew yglesias here with dare Lind. Jane costa. We are going to talk about something that came up at Michael Cohen's testimony as past week. We're not gonna talk about the intricacies of the various investigations into down Trump because we had Andrew here recently to do that. But there was this sort of weird sidebar about racism, the most dramatic moment of the hearing in the hearing room, I would say like the most tense moment between members of the committee. Michael Cohen all it was about late whether Donald Trump is a racist. And then whether Representative Mark meadows who is the former head of the house freedom caucus and close Trump ally is racist. So let me let me try to recap. What happened so Cullen as part of his repentance stick? Like really like through the kitchen sink in in terms of his like anti-trump stuff and then included in his pre released opening statement testimony. He said he was going to say stuff about how Donald Trump is racist. And that prompted Mark meadows who was trying to position himself as like Donald Trump leading Donald Trump defender to bring to the committee Lynn patent who had worked for the Trump organization for number of years as some kind of event plan her and now has been slotted into a role at HUD, and his somebody who knows Trump has worked with Trump. Trump obviously promoted into a government position. She does not see him obviously qualified for. So clearly he he has some admiration for her or desire to help her out. And medicines point in all this was I guess that you could see the Trump is not a racist. Because he knows this back. Woman. Well, I mean more specifically that lake he didn't quote her directly, but he paraphrased her as saying that as you know, he didn't actually say explicitly that as a black woman, but he said that she as the daughter of someone who grew up in Birmingham, Alabama would never work for a racist. So it wasn't quite a like Donald Trump can't be racist. He knows this black woman. It's Donald Trump can't be racist. This black woman says he's not racist. Right. And I just want to add in aside point that this like, you know, her father is raised in Birmingham. Her father is epidemiologist Curtis L Patton who is now a professor emeritus at Yale Dr wrote about this little bit. And I have also the flattening of African Americans that often takes place in these conversations where it's like. Oh, yes. This African American person her father's from Alabama. As if like that would mean something while her father's epidemiologists. Yeah. This is this is one of the many ways in the risotto. Oh, so many ways in which this was a weird screwed up interaction to get to where it got. So look for publicans offered a lot of blame arguments on subjects over the course of this hearing that note worthy. And then Democrats ask some questions Zion to further elicit what Michael Kohn was talking about where I think it is worth emphasizing that this sort of. Nave tastes shoe was was kind of on both both sides foot throughout this. Because the point that Michael Kohn was making about Trump was not that like Donald Trump has helped perpetuate systematic sources of disadvantage for African Americans. It was that he'd like made disparaging remarks about black people on two or three different occasions. Like, he said that one specific example was one time Trump said to him can you even name a country that's run by a black person that isn't a disaster. And this is when Obama was president. And so okay, that's racist. Actually think he's like the way that coincide. It was can you name a country run by electors in this shit hole, which is particularly relevant to anyone who remembers the whole country's moment. Although, of course, a lot of these things raise questions about the reliability of you know, hearsay testimony from like ten years ago. Right. I mean like say it had happened. Right. Like, okay. The insight here is that Trump wants cracked a joke where the joke wasn't just that he thinks rock Obama was a bad president. But that the nature of Obama being a bad president is that he's going to make the United States like a poor African country. So okay. Like, yes. Like that. I guess is racist. It is racist. It's also not I actually think like particularly like cut to the bone of what grievances with Donald Trump and grace are. And this is why you get into a zone where meadows counterpoint is like no see this lady who says she wouldn't work for racist person. Right. So we're basically in a debate about whether or not Donald Trump makes racist jokes. Right. And then and then she like kicked it up enough in which she in her line of it was barely questioning. Hang. But at the end of the hearing said that to sort of tokenistic -ly trot out a black person for her testimony to somehow obviate the like entire experience. Was it self form of races? Right. I mean, the the term that she used was to tease a black woman as a prop which like I actually saw a former hill staffer tweet about this in in a way that actually makes a certain amount of sense. Like, you know, they're hill staffers are used to their members asking for can we get can we print out a big chart that I can use. Can we like have some kind of blown up? Photograph of Michael cone with the word liar on it that I just have behind me during my testimony, which eventually they hash they head. Yeah. So like to the way that patent was being indicated was kind of in a similar vein. It was not like she wasn't actually getting a statement read into the record. She wasn't herself. Testifying. She wasn't speaking. She was being pointed to mutely in the same way that someone might point to a chart, and like when you think about it that way. Yeah. That that does seem kind of two humanizing, right? And I think that we've seen this a lot because meadows responses, which also I'm sure met we're going to get to this. A lot of people mentioned after this all happen. Video from twenty twelve in which Mark meadows Gionta Lee wandered into birtherism regarding President Barack Obama and talking about sending him back to Kenya. And his response was one I was running at the time and two I don't have a racist bone in my body. And we've talked about this before there's this idea that either if an African American person says you're not racist or not racist. And that racism is something that you that needs to be this like internal driver for you'd have done something racist. Right. This is this is getting ahead of ourselves a little bit late slightly. Yes. I gotta Presley whose another house freshmen on the committee had had. Had also brought this up later in the hearing like she actually turned it into a question. She asked Michael Cohen, like do you believe that someone who has essentially like, do you believe that someone can have a black friend and also be a racist? And then they made her remarks, and then Mark meadows blew up. Right. And there is if you you know, if you look at the clip there's a lot of talking over and a lot of questions about decorum, essentially meadows interpreted, what was saying as an individual attack on his character, which like individual references to other members of the committee wouldn't be allowed under like congressional decorum rules, and so was asking to have her statement struck from the record. And so she had to clarify that she was talking about the the act being racist not him personally. And then Mark meadows and Elijah Cummings. Who's the chairman of the house oversight committee had essentially a colloquium about how Mark meadows also has black friends and is not a racist. If the exact same thing, essentially Cummings. To get to hearing back on track. Did the exact thing where he like vouched for Mark Mets freight, right like do appear to genuinely be friends in the way that a lot of members of congress who've been in congress for a certain amount of time like have a certain report respect for each other, right? Like, manners meadows, basically had comings validate him Cummings being himself? Black meadows was like, you know, you know, we worked together. Really, well, I wouldn't you know that that itself is proof that I don't end and Cummings for his part like vindicated this and said, yeah, I can see because I know you because we're friends I can see how painful this is for you. And I assure you that she didn't mean that like he is absolutely validating meadows experienced in that moment, and you know, without wanting to psychology anything, it was a very interesting dynamic of the difference between this younger non black woman of color Russia to play you know, kind of being willing to walk right up to the edge. Not. Not calling Mark meadows a racist. But like being willing to say something that he was going to interpret that way and Elijah Cummings being like, no, I know it's very very painful for you to have your racial equality. Boniface question. Right. Well, you know, I think to to really delve into the dynamic there. Right. So it's like machine is. Arab-palestinian descend. She represents ovary district that has majority black. She is a freshman member. So there's a very real chance she ran against multiple different African American candidates and winning narrowly absurd. There's a very real chance that she will lose a primary to a single black challenger, right? So it is very strongly and her interest to like have no flank of black identity that can be turned against her. Right. Elijah Cummings is like the opposite of that. He's been in congress for a very long time. He is African American. He represents a majority black seat that he is held for very long time. He's very senior House Democrat. So like for him, the imperative is to operate in a sort of Bo Slee white congressional leadership space like very secure that African American voters in Baltimore are. Keep sending him to congress. But the question is like will Nancy Pelosi, and Steny Hoyer and other democratic committee chairs see him as like a power player who should be setting strategy because his whole cone hearing wasn't just like a random thing that happened right? Like, this is kind of the centerpiece of what House Democrats are doing. So like the question of is Elijah Cummings. A shrewd political tactician who is making the message points that we the Democratic Party want verses are we getting derailed into a debate about the definition of racism. You know is relevant. The weird context. Like the day before the cone hearing, the oversight committee issued its first subpoenas of the congress, and they made a big deal out of saying we didn't have to do this in a partisan manner. But we did. Anyway, the idea that having the continued BI partisan action specifically on oversight is possible. Right something that clearly they see is key to their. Legitimacy. No. So we on the weeds are not on message servants of the Democratic Party and are doing contrary to you know. We are now going to do what a logic to not want to let this Michael Kohn hearing get derailed off the topic of Donald Trump's for office into super woke. Yeah. The idea of whether of like racist bones versus racist acts. Right. Exactly. And I think that that something I've written about before. And it's just kind of this ongoing phenomenon that we in kind of American culture at the moment, there's been kind of this defining down of racism is. So that you have people I wrote about this. When I wrote about Steve king that it took Steve king saying, the actual words, white nationalist and white nationalism and saying what's so bad about that for people to be like hang on a second. When he was like palling around with faith Goldie and going on with people with cantaloupe calves for years. And I think we see this little bit saying that someone is racist or has engaged in racism. It's considered an insult. I like that. It's like, oh that was very mean of you to say not very terrible of that persons who having gauged in racism racist behavior. Let's let's let's take a break. And then and then let's delve into this. This is advertiser content. We use disposable water bottles for twelve minutes on average, but they could take two four hundred and fifty years to decompose your world. 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By a British dream pitcher today at Amazon, WalMart or target. So what I was writing about this and and using your article pretty heavily. I actually struggled a little bit not to just paraphrase you bunch and specifically with the term insult racist. As insult which I think is really really insightful. But in a way that I want pack a little bit more, right? Like the reason that racist as insult rather than just a neutral adjective like the why that's such a useful way to describe it is that generally when you label things you're trying to understand them better. You're like using that label as away to you know, as a way to kind of categorize them examine them when you're saying to someone hey that is a misinformed or, you know, under sensitive way to look at it. In theory, what you're supposed to what the intention of that is for them to kind of think again and reconsider and kind of gain more information in sympathy when racist is seen as exclusively an insult. It's shuts down conversation instead, right? It's like. The response either. Oh, you don't have any real arguments. So you're just calling me a racist. You're just engaging character attacks, or you know, on the other side if you're a racist. There's no place for you in the public sphere or any of that there's an understanding kind of throughout the political spectrum that to call someone a racist means to de-legitimize them. And that that is something that should be if you're on the receiving end of that lake frustrated and resisted, not something that is that is actually being used to invite a conversation. Well problem is that like it's that gets extended to people not just being called a racist. But use of use of the term, racist or racism, right? Exactly saw with the thing where she said verbatim a racist act. And it got taken as saying you are Avery societal. I wanna try to take through this a little bit. Yeah. Okay. So here, Jane, I'm gonna do it to dialogue, right? Okay. We're gonna dial having racial dialogue. So Mark meadows earlier in his career was out there making birther jokes. Right about Bronco. Exact. So a person seeing clips of those jokes. You might say, that's that's racist. Right. So a defense that Mark meadows. It seemed to me like he was offering to that was look I can see how you would see that. And be like this, Mark meadows guy. Like, this is a bad guy. He hates black people. Right. But I am telling you that in my heart in my bone swiped in the non-visible interior of Mark meadows. I have nothing but positive sentiments toward African Americans. And I apologize for those jokes. But also you have to understand that. I was running for office at the time. Right. So that's like, whoa. You might look at Barack Obama from two thousand eight saying, I believe marriage is between a man and woman, and you might say, oh, man. But what? With this homophobe, and I might offer as a defensive that like, but look you've got understand, right? He was playing savvy political game like he put on the bench. The supreme court justices who created marriage equality. He flip flopped in a timely manner. He appointed pro gay people and all the evidence from his personal life in his interactions that he's totally fine with BT people. And like there's a difference between Mark meadows cynically playing to racism to win a primary Mark meadows being racist. So the issue here, and I've said this multiple times is that if you are willing to cynically engage in racism, there's a Ken white on Twitter who goes by Popat at Popat goes head something I believe he calls the law of goats, and the love goats, I will put it in the most PG way possible is that if you have sex with a goat, even if you're having sex with. A goat. Ironically or cynically or for political purposes or because you want to trigger the libs you are still having sex with a goat. That is what you are doing. I feel as if in this, particular instance, if you are engaging in racism for cynical political purposes that is not better, it raises more questions about one's moral, judgment or character. And obviously, I have not thoroughly examined Mark meadows skeleton to find his like racist femur or something like that. But I do think that the willingness to having gauged in birtherism this same birtherism in which President Trump engaged for a million zillion years that that does show a willingness to engage in racist acts, and if you say that you're doing it just because you wanna win an election. Honestly, I was saying this a little bit like give me like the moral temerity of an orally Tate's who genuinely believed it this sin. That it takes to engage in something richest as birtherism, but just to say like I was doing it to to try and win an election. That's that's disgusting. I mean, fundamentally, this is a matter of do you think that racism is only unforgivable as if it's like a worldview or a motivator? And if you can make an intentional argument that you were motivated by something else that you know, that forgives you or do you see racism as a matter of practice, right? Like, either racist, something you are or as racism, something that one does and clay is making the the argument that it's fundamentally the second think that in general we've seen that that is a more useful way to think about it because hey, it inferior avoid stigmatizing individual people. Be it focuses on the consequences of the action. It's like if Mark meadows in front of a group of people who genuinely do believe that blacks are inferior, and he doesn't, but he tells them LL Barack Obama was born in Kenya. Do they know that he doesn't think that right? That doesn't actually matter in all respect in which that was a meaningful thing for him to say it was a racist thing for him to say. And so the other reason that talking about racism in acts matters because you can fear radically get people to you know, to like point of improvement or redemption, right? Like, if if this is just a bad habit that you have or some other practice like you. You know, you do because you don't know any better or you do because you need to be kind of told the right way to behave. You can do that. And like it's not that Mark meadows is forever stained by having said that Barack Obama was by having made a birther joke. Like, that's not the point of talking about racism, arc meadows. The point of it is to acknowledge the extent to which he and frankly by extension the current iterating of the Republican party have used race as a political. Tool and to talk about that as a factor in continued racial equity. Right. But I think that distinction right? So like acts for people sort of subjective versus external view of these things is valid and these are important kinds of contributions to make the debate at the same time. I do think it's true that people on the left sometimes engage in a I guess, we'll call in fostering class a fallacy of equivocation on this point where we have a broad social consensus that racism is bad. So like if you ask people in a very sharply polarized political dynamic, right? If Mark meadows is up there. If Donald Trump is up there. Mitch McConnell is up there. And you're like, hey, man, like what's up with racism back? That's bad. Right. And everybody agrees. So in. In that sense. Like, yes to call somebody racist to say, they are doing something racist is to say they are doing something bad is to say they doing that is by consensus bad that is outside the bounds of partisan political contestation, right because we disagree about many things, and we've agreed to be colleagues appear on the days. But we agree that racism is bad and unacceptable practice. So when you point to something that people are doing, and you seek to apply the level label racist to it which are trying to say is that this thing belongs outside the zone of conflict. But frequently the idea of the like sophisticated lefty academic idea of racism gets applied to things that are clearly inside the zone of legitimate contestation to somebody will say. The mortgage interest tax deduction is a racist practice because it was disparate impact on African Americans or they will say as I think it was Elizabeth Warren got into some political hot water when she said the criminal Justice system is racist. And then when a bunch of Massachusetts law enforcement officials, some of whom are African American got mad at her. Pin wheeled back into like a discussion that you might have on a college campus, you know, about like, look, I'm not saying that the Massachusetts state police is like all composed of bad people who harbor deep seated, Rachel prejudices. I am saying that there are structural inequities in the system in those cases, it's initially the point is of wrong, but you were deliberately making a controversial point. Yeah. I definitely, and I think that to some extent that is people trying to condemn racial inequity in strong moral terms because they believe it is a moral issue. And to certain extent that is something that progressive activists are trying to use like, you know, people who believe who firmly believe that current, you know, housing policy is unacceptable because it perpetuates racial inequities are too. Certainly set deliberately trying to apply the word racist to render it unacceptable, and it's just not clear that that works. But I think that frankly dynamic that you've pointed out is key to why we've settled on intentionally because if you know in order to draw the line between what is legitimate, and what is illegitimate and partisan contestation. What we've seen is that if you can. Construct a race neutral framework for why you are arguing for what you're arguing for like if you say it's not about suppressing the black vote. It's that I think that it's really important to have to bend over backwards to prevent voter fraud. If you say, it's not about, you know, not wanting Latino immigrants it's because I believe really strongly in the neutral rule of law like those are things that have been decided. Okay, that that is an acceptable way to argue about it. And frankly, when I say that factor often, a stalking horse for values on immigration, and otherwise that's the dynamic that creates that. Right. It's a lot of people who are making arguments based on facts that aren't necessarily what's motivating their position because that's what's deemed as acceptable in the public sphere. Right. As if they were to talk about like a certain amount of cultural discomfort or want to talk about well, it's in my interest to. Event people who are gonna vote for the other guy from voting that would be they people understand that that would be seen that like they could get accused of being racist. And they don't wanna do that. Right. Exactly. And it's interesting though, because our country has attempted to make quote, unquote, racism anathema, we've defined it down. So that you can say no, you have people who are engaging in extremely racist acts, and then what happens is that non white, folks. Or specifically in these examples African American say, hey, that's racist. And then those people respond. No, no, I would never do that. Like, I would never be racist. While I post this picture on my Facebook while but how Michelle Obama is a man or as an ape or I'm William rig, Mary and run an actual white nationalist think tank, but he's not a racist because he's just a racial realist. And you even see that on kind of the white nationalist far. Right. The idea of like, we can't sit, you know, we're not racist. We're just racial realist. Because. They recognize as Dr put it that if they can even put those views yoke kind of when people get into kind of the rates Nike discussion, if they can put those views in what they believe to be value neutral context, vacant engage in kind of this wider conversation while attempting to kind of hide the fact of like, oh, why are you engaging in this wider conversation? Right. Why are you doing this? And this is where it gets really tricky. Because this is where the left looks at what the people who are trying hard not to call themselves. Racists are arguing and looks at everybody else arguing that goes, this is a societas with these racists right of racist view. Like, I think it's really important to note that when we're talking about these kind of ideological like parallel construction right in the same way that a prosecutor sometimes, you know, has evidence that might not have been obtained through like means that are going to hold up to a fourth challenge in court, but they can kind of take that information and. Like come up with an alternate way. They have gotten that would have been legal like it's kind of the same dynamic that doesn't mean that everyone is who who espouses the racially the facially neutral view right doing that. Like, not everyone is is seeing this as a fig-leaf. It's just that some the people who genuinely believe that are getting lumped in with the people who you know, may or may not genuinely believe it are getting in with the people who have not thought much about it. Exactly. But so I do think that there is an irreducible element of subjective ISM to the concept of racism, and that the effort to make it purely external issed doesn't really fully make sense. And I think the voter suppression is a good example there, right? So, you know, an argument that will be made about this is that to seek to disenfranchise a group of African Americans because they are African American is both. For constitutional reasons unacceptable, but also for a sort of moral ethical reason why that is like you are saying I am putting these black people outside the bounds of citizenship. Right. They do not count as Americans, and then you can make a counterpoint like, no, I don't have any impure racial motive in doing this. I'm just just a guy out here. Trying to win an election, man. You know, like, you know, what I what I'm saying? You might make a comeback and be like, look, I sorta don't care like what exactly is in your hearts and bones here. Like, the fact is you're disenfranchising people, and that is disadvantageous to buck people. And I feel like that argument makes sense. I think everybody understands words coming from. But because of the way partisan politics works, if you try to disenfranchise college students if you try to make it so that university of wiscon-. Insen students can't vote that also is objectively harmful to the interests of black people living in the state of Wisconsin in objectively harmful to the interests of African Americans nationwide. Because those college students at university of Wisconsin who are overwhelmingly white are gonna vote for the same candidates right for Tammy Baldwin for Tony Evers who black people in mock you're voting for. But I think it would be kinda crazy to say that like moves to make it harder. It would be I think very respectable to say that moves to make it harder for college students to vote are bad for reasons of equal democracy and citizenship, but to call them racist because it's objectively contrary to the interests of black people feels like a wild stretch to me and like and like an abuse of the moral force of. Braces as a matter of political science, though, I think that this is like this actually gets to a really important question because the flip side of well, it's probably not racist to prevent college students from voting just because it would objectively harm the interests of black voters is like if you're a North Carolina State legislator, for example. And you're an idiot who doesn't understand how discovery works in lawsuits? And so right, all these emails about how great it is that you're right is starting plan disenfranchises black voters because they would be voting for the other guy if you're not trying to keep them from voting because they're black. But because they would vote from the other guy, isn't that just a sense of partisan competition and like possibly, right? The root problem here appears to be that we are in a situation where one of our national parties does not see non white people as an important voting, you know, as as an important part of its coalition, and to the contrary sees them as a key part of the other side's coalition that therefore should probably. Tamped down on ever possible. Like that can't be healthy in its own. Right. And it self makes it extremely difficult to talk about where the boundary between partisan contestation and things that are objectively perpetuating, racial inequities are and I agree. I think the moral force argument is a good point. I think that you know, in general specificity of language is great. And so if we're if we're trying to talk specifically about current racial inequities, if we're trying to talk about the legacies of particular past policies, like the reparations debate has already gotten super super confused because people aren't necessarily sure whether they're talking about reparations for slavery or reparations for Jim crow and red lining or reparations for kind of the some of injustices that have been visited upon African Americans over the four hundred years of colonization and settlement like. It's good to talk specifically about current things. It's good to genealogical. Think about the legacies of past harms eighties is good to talk about the problems that come from, you know, white supremacist ideologies and mindsets may be the right answer is to separate all that from talking about racism, but it doesn't get us away. From the fact that lake none of those things are things the Republican party is currently incentivized to deal with. And as to the contrary they're incentivized to like not to to dismiss them and fight against any attempts to ameliorate them. And I think we see that overall that I would argue that the even the idea of racism as a moral force. I feel like has been diluted time in time and time again because that works is immoral force as long as you're willing to accept it as one, but if you're showing up in black face in a yearbook, and then trying to argue about how like let me moon walk away from this. Show that I am not in fact racist, I feel that's an obvious Gatien. The issue with racism is not just that. It's a political cudgel the issue with racism is that it's evil and has resulted in the destruction of communities and lives in this country for centuries and still in many respects does. And I think that it's particularly challenging when it gets into this conversation about you know, it's applicable as a moral force. When people don't want to accept it when it can be a moral force for Republicans, but of Democrats are accused of engaging in racist behavior as a democrat was Maryland for using a racial slur about a region of Maryland, she went with the kind of like, I would never say those words, but I have said those words, and that kind of occupation of moral force. I feel like a real concern in many respects, not just politically, but culturally as well. Let's let's bring this back to Michael Kohn, actually. Okay. Hey, thanks for listening to the weeds. If you like this podcast, we've got another one. You check out it's called drill. This an investigative true crime style podcast, but it's about climate change. The first episode tells the story of how fossil fuel companies created climate denial made it this podcast includes more primary sources than any other previous reporting on the subject. Now, new internal documents revealing the oil company strategies, the new episodes just started publishing now in February. And they're gonna run every other week with ongoing reporting on corporate blocks to climate action from fake news sites. I meant loss to new investigative series this year one in may and the other September package called drilled you could find an apple podcast or Spotify. Or wherever else you liked to listen to your podcasts. I don't I don't wanna do both sides for the sake of both siding. But I think it's worth pointing out that like the whole reason that we're talking about this week as opposed to every other week. It's not like racist only relevant in American life. Sometimes but. Michael Kohn brought this up as a way of discrediting the personal character of Donald Trump by calling him a racist. Right. Like nothing that Michael Kuhn was actually on the stand to say that the house oversight is looking into. It was about race at all cone through in. In addition to kind of giving in his prepared remarks. These tantalizing stories that were relevant to various house oversight lines of inquiry. The idea that Trump in addition to being a con and a liar was a racist. And you know, kind of talked about the Obama should countries saying if you other anecdotes like. Goes obviously, not a paradigm of woke nests here. Right dude is a middle aged white dude from the outer boroughs, but both his temptation to do that. And then when called out by Mark meadows in who's pointing to patent. He responded by saying, well, I wouldn't work for shouldn't work for racist. Either. I'm the son of a holocaust survivor, which like honestly was seen as a mic drop moment in some quarters. And I would urge anyone who thought that kind of reconsider. Why they think it's not super not cool to say this black woman says Donald Trump's not a racist. Therefore, he isn't. But it is cool to say, I'm the son of a holocaust survivor, and I say that he is like it. Yes, exactly the same by or biographical effort to say, you know, I am going to pronounce them. Not yo and I can do this because my family history says that I am an arbiter of what isn't isn't racist? Like to talk about racism and politically unhelpful. As by no means limited to conservatives to the right to any of that. It's it's a convenient way to do things. It's just that. You know, it does. I don't know. I feel I keep coming back to this question of moral force. Like, what is the right answer to get people to look at things analytically while making sure that things are not kind of well, many from being something that doesn't have human impact. I think the distinction so matters here, right? Like, if you think about Sarah, and I were podcasting about Amy klobuchar and her treatment of her staff and the concern there is not that like Amy klobuchar is potentially like systematically disenfranchising like staffers as a group or something. But it something has been revealed about her character. Right. And how she deals with people who are in suborn. Knit position vis-a-vis her and that this insight into her character should give us some cause to worry about her behavior as a policymaker, right? And to one argument you could make about Donald Trump. The argument that Michael Kohn was advancing with his stories about racist jokes is at Donald Trump harbors ill sentiments, toward African American people and cone was also making the argument about himself that as a descendant of holocaust survivors, like many Jewish people of that rough demographic right that he takes seriously the threat that invidious personal prejudices in general can pose in life, right that like Jews were happily assimilated in Germany and getting along. But there was a lot of prejudice against people in freely. Got at hand right now, we understand that this is bad that the purity when I. Think about like my grandparents, right? Who by the end of their lives would not qualify as like woke on racist people, but who in the fifties and sixties where like absolutely full-throated supporters of the civil rights movement as they understood it because they understood the purity taboos of the Jim crow south to be close cousins to European anti semitism. Right. And then like later, though, if you're talking to them about like school district lines in housing policy, right in like, a very classic story about like northern white ethnic, for example. You know when everywhere, right. That's like a big part of American politics is that kind of turn. And I think you see it in the ambiguity around Trump and race because the idea that Donald Trump could be like racist in the sense of like. The really bad in personal behavior. Right. That could give some people pause about Trump in a way that simply saying that like Trump favors ideas that systematically advantage white people that might give them like the opposite of pause about Donald Trump. But guess what they want like innocence like Trump's claim about himself would be that like he champions ordinary by which he would mean white Americans against elites here on this podcast who like want him to tear down like social systems that provide you with good schools and property values and safe streets and things like that. And I'm always reminded of a study vox road up earlier where it was like informing people about the racial inequities in the criminal Justice system, made them less supportive of reform rather than more that like the fact that the American crew. Justice system is very expensive extremely punitive with something that people had started to worry about. But when you told them, it was also, very disparate knits racial impact. That didn't make them think. Like a now, it's really bad. It made them think like, oh, maybe this isn't as big a problem as I thought, and I just think that like it's hard to have it both ways on these topics. Right. Like systematic advantage disadvantage are real phenomena that deserve to be discussed. But would always want is like the political. I think there's something to be said when talking about Trump or talking about pretty much anyone like there. I think we've been having this discussion when we talk about Mark meadows or others that there's this idea that racism would be displayed the same way both internally and externally. So. Trump, for example, his particular brand of what I would say, internal racism is the same thing that means he was very surprised that members of the Congressional Black caucus had did not know Ben Carson because he just kind of Sumed that they would all know each other or the kind of the internal racism that one might have went one is someone who has talked a lot about how he only wants Jewish people to control money, or you know, who did what he did regarding the central park five, but his externalize racism, I think that actually gets back to the meadows point is that this is someone who tweeted about how there will never be another black president again because Barack Obama was bad or the kind of externalised racism of not just because I think that when we get into disparate impact of different actions. I think it's it's worthwhile kind of talking about how we phrase that in terms of racism, but then time and time and time again in which. The externalize resume, and especially the cynical use of externalised racism for political reasons like birtherism was an we can see this time and time again, by the fact that Trump kept saying things like he'd flown people to Hawaii to go look into Obama's birth certificate or done all of these things. And then if you'll remember during the presidential campaign, he held a press conference. It was basically like well that's over now by and that was an expression of cynical externalize racism. That's not what you're going to get from like the Richard Spencer of the world. But that is the wheeled ING over as ISM for cynical personal and political purposes. And I think that there's something to be said about how internal and external racism don't both need to look the same. And we talk about racism as or saying that someone is a racist. As if someone if. A racist. Cannot also be many other things. I'm always reminded. There's a diner in DC that's been around for like a million years, Florida avenue grow, and there are pictures of people who have gone there. And there's a table at which Martin Luther King plan the March on Washington, there's a little plaque and someone who loved to go to Florida avenue grill was strong Thurman, and there's a picture that he signed where it talks about how much he loves the corn bread. And how it so great there and strong Thurman is probably best remembered as a staunch segregationist who fought for Jim crow for a very long time. But then in the early nineteen seventies he hired a black staffer, and like kept talking about how his segregationist views were more about like federal intrusion into American life, so strong Thurman head and internal racism, which was I really like when the African American employees of this predominantly black diner make cornbread, but I would very much rather. They did not go to school with anyone. I know. Or my children. But I also he then had it mixed race child out of wedlock. That's neither here nor there. But then his externalised racism was engaged in fighting for Jim crow for changing political parties over the issue and kind of engaging in this use of as I said this use of racism as a cynical political ploy. And then deciding that he that since that no longer worked. He was going to shift away from that. And I think it's very worthwhile recognizing that people are multifaceted people contained contain multitudes. And as drew racists as do people who engage in racism, and as people who engage racism in these political sense, you know, in these political sensibilities, and I think being able to talk about that being able to put RAs actions in context and racist people in context, I think is extremely worthwhile. But it really bothers me time again where you. You have this idea that like, you know, oh, my external cynical racist actions. Don't say anything about my internal wrist ISM. When it clearly does. I almost wanna let you drop them like that. But now that you brought up Shaw. Yes. I wanna think it with this neighborhood Virginian, I live. I think what the opposite case of this. Right. Okay. Which is so our neighborhood at this point in time. Mostly white large minority population. Right. The public schools are majority minority though, I speak all the time to white parents around the neighborhood who have a clear reluctance to send their kids to the majority black public school. Yes, this is ongoing phenomenon. There's been some really terrific reporting. The New York Times on this issue, especially New York. And if I were to suggest that it seemed to me that this behavior was motivated by prejudice about black children. Would they would come back at me with? I think is not like my black friend because these are woke liberals, they would come back with the fact that they're external Leising behavior is extremely anti-racist. Right. That like they lie. Like support criminal Justice reform, and they want to undo funding inequities and like eighty million like good anti racist, political stances, but it actually seems. Quite relevant telling in damning to me when people are like willing to have lots of woke political views, but like won't actually do the thing. Exactly. And I think we've seen this time and time again, specifically I'm thinking of people on the left where they're very much. It's kind of like, I am extremely interested. In black lives matter. I'm extremely engaged in the discussions about racism in American society. But I draw the line at my kid because I think that that is that internalized and externalised racism or views of race in the sense. And I think that it's. That's something. I mentioned a little bit earlier that that cuts really close for a lot of people. And you'll notice how uncomfortable that very discussion can get because when we talk about racism as a moral force that moral force can be embarrassing and painful for people to you know, who are kind of engaged in it. And then you see those same people who are just like, it's not just want my kids to go to high good schools, and you know, then you get into what is a good school. Look like, and you know, how people have these conversations and you see this a little bit. I'm on the right? I'm reminded of a really terrific piece that actually wound up in a blog that I can't find it. Now, if someone could find it would be very much grateful a woman who she's a pro-life activist. And she wrote a piece in the federalist about how you know, if you're pro-life it's very important that you listen to black lives matter and stop just responding about like, we'll. Black people of their children or something like that. Like, why are you not listening to us? And she was saying that, you know, she got responses from friends and from people within the pro-life movement. Like, how dare you say that how how dare you bring this up because it made them uncomfortable. And I think that that engagement with. Thinking about race or racism, and it how uncomfortable it gets people at how people want to disengage push it away onto someone else or foisted onto someone else who they're not. And especially when it gets personal when it's about your views on abortion or about your where your kids go to school. Yeah. I mean, right. Like this gets back to Elijah Cummings trying to make sure that it like that. He that. Mark meadows knows that he Elijah Cummings feels his pain like the inevitable tendency of conversations about racism in twenty nineteen is that they become about the feelings of the person who was accused of racism, and that is not a super productive way to have a public debate. Like, I think I've I've been persuaded by Matt's arguments. Like, there is a reason that that is such a powerful thing. And maybe it's a good idea to respect that. But I just think I think that it's worth pointing out one that if we talked you know, if. We did the same analysis to like the white parents of Shaw that we were doing to the democratic and Republican you know, that we were doing to play and Elijah Cummings earlier in this episode, right? If we were talking about like, well, of course, you know, this group of people have a certain set of advantages that they wished to preserve, and they do not want to give up their personal advantages for the sake of other people like that is a neutral thing that we can say nobody is going to that doesn't sound very controversial. But when it's well, the reason that you have some under in privileges is because of your whiteness, and what that means in America, it becomes well. But I don't deserve. I didn't do anything wrong. So I don't deserve to give these privileges up. It becomes a very like why should I be punished for things that I have no control over which? I think that it's an understandable response from of tearless politics, viewpoint. But then becomes why would you say that I am trying to hurt your child, which is not the best way to do things that gets multiplied when we're talking about the strums Thurmond the like Mark's meadow of the world, right where it's like, they're speaking as individuals who have individually hurt feelings, but they're not in congress because of the purity of their feelings right there in congress to exercise power over the lives of other people. Those two aren't it's not a super strong distinction because to talk about racial equity is to talk about power, and if we can make turn this into some operational help for engaging in racial dialogue in twenty nineteen a good starting point, especially for white people is if you are trying to turn this into a conversation about your feelings, right? Just like think about it. As try to think about it as a simple question of distribution of resources as a simple question of economics is like whatever it takes to get this into a place where you don't feel personally impugned, and then you can come back to your feelings on your own time and figure out why meant so much to you to get you know, like y that hurts so much that is something that you can do internally doesn't actually require another person's validation. Also, I would note because I I will never run for congress or hold any political power whatsoever. So I can save relatively what I want that. You know? Sure and see exactly need, you know, the feelings of the people of the feelings of Mark meadow are not the top priority in this discussion. And it it's very interesting. How the conversation that they were having shifted to. Let's make Mark meadow. Feel better rather than why did Mark meadow decide to bring this note African American women held employees into this room to stand silently and be in a prop of sorts to show that someone else wasn't racist. Because this person said they weren't but didn't say at the time because she stood they're not saying anything as a prop there. Go. All right. Thanks, guys. Thanks to everybody out. There listening things to our sponsors. Thanks, of course to our producer Jeffrey guilt. We can continue to become sation in the weeds Facebook group and will be back on Tuesday. Weeds listeners. Why are you buying drinking? Bottled waters is the tastes that can we need. Okay. But listen the energy that is used to power America's love of plastic water bottles. It's huge. And the cost is outrage we use millions of barrels of oil every year just to manufacture the bottles. 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The President loses big in court as he continues to stonewall Congress

All In with Chris Hayes

44:41 min | 2 years ago

The President loses big in court as he continues to stonewall Congress

"Tonight on all in full president to harass this. The president loses big in court. We disagree with that ruling as he tries to Plock, his former White House counsel from testifying tomorrow, mcgann's a really good guy. And a top democrat finally goes there on impeachment Dom. Again, doesn't testify. It is time to open an impeachment inquiry. Tonight, the massive stakes over the dumb again, fight the implications of the new sweeping repudiation of Trump's claim that congress cannot investigate him now bipartisan calls for impeaching the president and the new reporting that Donald Trump's current lawyer instructed, his former lawyer to lie to congress, I've done with the lying all in starts right now. Good evening from New York. I'm Chris, as tonight for the very first time a federal judge has ruled on a key question in the escalating battle between the president and congress that his attempt to investigate them and the ruling is not good for Donald Trump. At all. You might remember earlier this month, the president challenged a house oversight committee subpoena to his accounting firm for financial records, relating to the president and his lawyers tried the fairly audacious argument before the judge that congress, basically almost has no power to investigate the president. Well today in an expedited ruling a federal judge laughed, their argument out of court saying, quote, it is simply not fathomable that a constitution that grants. Congress the power to remove a president for reasons including criminal behavior would deny congress the power to investigate him for unlawful conduct pastor present even without formally opening an impeachment inquiry. In other words, no? Too bad, you got to comply with the spin is congress has the power to do this. So that's one thing that's happening in the constellation of battles happening between the White House, and congress. Meanwhile, the Trump administration is so utterly desperate to prevent former White House counsel, Don Mcgann from testifying before congress tomorrow, which is on the schedules, far as we know they have now issued a legal argument. The department of Justice saying congress cannot compel him to testify and tonight, mcgann's attorney told the house, he will defer to Trump until an agreement is reached with the White House, now dumb, again matters quite a bit here because he spent his you might remember thirty full hours detailing our Muller Trump's repeated Thames to shut down and subvert, the Muller investigation, and Trump does not want again to come before a committee and basically, literally say, in front of cameras all the stuff that's already in the mode report that almost nobody has read, because if Don Mcgann does that if he just says, what he told bowler it will look terrible because the president pretty clearly tried to and did. Obstruct justice. Here's the mullahs report. Describes Mcgann Mcgann. Is it credible witness the no motive to lie or exaggerate, given the position he held in the White House again decided to quit because he did not want to participate in events that you described as akin to the Saturday night massacre. That's of course, when the president tried to fire Bob owner and told him again to do it. He called his lawyer. Drove the White House packed up his office prepare to submit a resignation letter with this chief of staff told pre-bus, the president and asked him to do crazy, expletive and four Priebus and Bannon, he was leaving. All right. All of this comes with the house intelligence committee testimony voting tonight to release Michael cones testimony from earlier this year as a Washington Post, first reported komo's told the committee that Jay Secolo presents personal attorney, one of them instructed him to lie to congress about Trump's negotiations to build a Trump Tower Moscow. Now, lawyers for Secolo said in a statement that is very notably, not a denial that this or any committee would rely on the word of Michael. Kohn. Verney. Purpose, much less try and Pierce, the attorney client privilege and discover confidential communications of four respected, lawyers defies logic. Well established long commonsense. Trump ministration stonewalling is pushing Democrats day-by-day step by step inch by inch to a tougher position. You could watch it happen in real time. Here is congressman David cellini is a member of the democratic leadership just a little while ago. Now, they're making this really broad claim that essentially says the president is team are immune from ever coming before congress. I that's legally incorrect and certainly a court will ultimately have to decide that. But I think let me be clear Dom, again doesn't testify. It is time to open an impeachment inquiry. Let me just make sure I heard you correctly there. If McCain does not show up tomorrow before your committee, you say it is time for Democrats to begin an impeachment proceeding and impeachment incre-. Absolutely. We have really left with no other choice. More than that escalating constitutional showdown between the White House, Capitol Hill and joined by MSNBC contributor. Chuck Rosenberg was a former US attorney also served as chief of staff the FBI under then director James Comey. He's got a new podcast out called the oath, which Rosenberg, I'm also joined by Harry Littman is former US, attorney and deputy assistant attorney general apparently begin with you there. So we've got three sort of channels of news, all on this sort of major theme. Right as we get the showdown between the president and congress. And I want to start on the first. And I think in some ways, the biggest federal judges decision forty-one page, opinion, basically, saying to the president's argument, the congress can't investigate, you know, way that doesn't work. I'm not a lawyer, but it felt like a fairly scathing argument opinion. What did you think? Yes. So it's a complete slapdown, and it's not just this is the argument, Trump made the Cummings, but it's been made across the board. It's the same argument, for example, that Mnuchin has made in resisting the tax subpoena, no legislative purpose. And of course it's the, the exact opposite argument that, that the administration has made in other litigation, where they said, you have to defer to us. You have to trust us with the district court said is same thing for congress. I'm not going to go and try to cycle analyze them. There is in fact, a valid oversight purpose here. That's all we have to no end of story and forget, any kind of second guessing the subpoena, stands, and Chuck. I mean this, this federal court decision, it's the first of what I think we're gonna see a lot of things they'll bought a battles being waged at are going to work towards appeal courts and proved to be extremely high stakes question before the court about what congress can and cannot do here. Yeah, that's absolutely right. And harry's. Right. And his analysis. Right. What the court said is. I the judge I'm not going to second guess whether or not congress has a legislative purpose now to your point, Chris, it ain't over. It's going to be appealed, an appellate court will have to weigh in. In fact, we may have several different courts in several different places, weighing in on this as more and more people try to fight subpoenas resists production, but in the end, we're going to get an answer. And that's what the courts are for to give us an answer. Whatever that answer is folks on either side have to abide by it. So we've got this, this opinion from federal judge the first of several, this is going to continue to fight it out. Now we got Don Mcgann. Okay. Can't supposed to come tomorrow? Dumb again. No longer works the White House, he's a essentially now a private citizen. He has been called to testify today, the department of Justice all see puts out a fifteen page document, basically saying, no, he has to listen to the president. The president says he can't do it. How broad how aggressive is this move by the? White House, Harry. So it's very aggressive. Although it's not that much more aggressive than other white houses have done, but the real big move here is to say that it applies. In the case of former officials, they, they side, no legal authority because no court has decided it with one exception. A district court previously ruled against basically, the identical argument in the Harry admires case that was then settled out on appeal, but this is a tough one. I think the previous argument is going to prevail across the board. If the DC circuit, this is one whether or not the there's a testimonial privilege that applies to form or close advisers that, that likely will go all the way to the supreme court. Yes. So this is a closer issue, Chuck hair. That's Harry's point here. And it's always been the case. I mean, the White House gets to say, like, for instance, you can't call my current White House counsel before congress that, that's a fairly established this question here. There's the procedural. To me the bigger things. Mcgann and Mcgann is a key figure because of what we know he told Muller because of what we know he saw and the desire did not have this guy, basically saying what he knows in front of everyone. There's an irony here. Chris new touched on it in your opening almost everything we need to know about what Mcgann knows is in the report. But so few people have read it, which I think, is a shame that we now, sort of feel like we need to hear from him. I get that. But I'm frustrated by two because we already have access to this stuff now, whether or not Mcgann actually ends up testifying once again, we'll be decided by the courts, I think Harry's, right again. Look, this is a this is an aggressive posture, but it's not different than the posture, the position taken by almost every president and every White House for the last fifty years, the difference, of course, is that Mcgann is now former not current and that's an issue that will have to be resolved by the courts and part of why I think Magana so crucial. I hear Harry even from narrative perspective is we have reporting that he refused to counter to come out and support the president statements after he left. We know the essentially threatened to quit when the president tried to fire Muller. He essentially saved Trump's presidency, I think when he did that he he's an he is very different than Michael Kohn in terms of a credibility standpoint. Yeah. I mean, especially from a narrative perspective, Chuck's. Right. Of course, we do know this stuff. And in fact, the White House opinion acknowledges that it's waved, the actual material and the Muller report as opposed to other material. But there's just no substitute and the last few weeks and the apparent sort of shrugging shoulders of the four hundred forty eight report shows it of having the guy in the lights actually saying those words, that's what the Democrats so dearly one and what the White House so, so crucially opposes. All right. Chuck Rosenberg, and Harry Littman. Thank you. Both make sure to check out Chuck's new podcast. It's great the oath. Can find out where get your podcast? Thank you general and, and the other podcasts. Democratic congress. Democratic congressman Raja, Krista, Mortiz joins me now. He's a member of the oversight committee, that subpoenas, Trump's financial records in the intelligence committee, that interviewed Michael Kohn, I the latest appears to show that Don Mcgann has submitted a letter basically saying he cannot appear because he's going to respect the president's claim to prevent him from testifying. What does that mean? Well, it means that we have to enforce a subpoena. I think that it's clear that the president's obviously trying to obstruct this testimony, just as he's trying to obstruct the present presentation of financial records by as ours and others. And I think, in court, we are going to probably win again because I think courts routinely uphold our constitutional system of checks and balances and the rights of congress to conduct oversight. Yeah. You wanna very big victory today. Pertaining to your committee and it subpoenas in which the judge said, look, basically, this is Congress's constitutional prerogative. I'm not gonna sit here in second gas, unless they're doing something, obviously wildly on its face out of bounds. And this does not meet that were you satisfied with that season. Yes, we believe it was a resounding victory for the law, and the principle that nobody is above the law. Not even the president of the United States, another issue, which came up is that the president actually sought. To stay the order, and the judge refused. The stay. And so I think that at this point of the committee intends to under the leadership of chairman Cummings, enforce the order, once it becomes final and a few days, and hopefully, we'll have some financial records. I want to ask you about this new reporting about Michael cones testimony for house intelligence committee, and what it would mean but before I get to that sort of broader question, here, here's my read on what's happening Democrats, don't want to impeach the president, generally, or they don't wanna seem to be seen to getting out ahead of the facts. There's reticence there. The president is obstructing at every step, and that is leading to more and more Democrats growing frustrated with the current posture and moving towards starting an impeachment inquiry. Is that a correct breed of the vector of movement right now? Possibly. But there's been a difference of opinion on this impeachment issue for some time. However, one thing that I want to make very clear, Chris is that the caucus is entirely unified on this issue of whether or not there should be checks and balances with regard to the president, whether we should be able to enforce the subpoena with regard to Don Mcgann whether or not, we should be able to see the full unredacted Muller report, whether we should be able to see the president's tax records. And of course, these financial records and the money laundering records from Deutsche Bank. All of these issues are ones were Democrats or one hundred percent United that we cannot allow the president to obstruct the people's oversight of the executive branch. There's reporting tonight that one of the items contained in the transcript that I think, is about to be released. I don't know if it's out yet in its entirety from the house intelligence committee testimony, they took from Michael Kohn, the concerts that Jay Secolo. The president's Laura told him. Why before congress? How big a deal is that? If that's true. That's a big deal. Obviously, Mr. secular. Oh, is a lawyer himself, and he has certain ethical constraints that he would obviously have violated if he council someone else to lie. But on top of that, he would potentially be suborning perjury. And that's very serious. Do you feel like you understand the entirety of the facts before us and asked us because you just mentioned a whole bunch of things that caucus has unified about not letting them obscure obstruct deny things, but just the public facts as they already presently exist in daylight? Do you congressman personally feel like you have a synthesized version, and you can sit down with the constituent, and give them a sixty second version? I might be able to give the cliff notes the of the Muller report. But there are a lot of unanswered questions. I'll just give you one very broad area of inquiry that none of us have answers on, which is, you know, there are fourteen ongoing matters that were referred by special counsel Muller to other jurisdictions, and I think eleven of them were completely redacted within the Muller report. And so there might be all kinds of other wrongdoing, that is being investigated currently that we have no knowledge of we don't know the subject matter nor do we know the targets. This is very important in from an oversight standpoint. We must know what those matters are about one other issue. Which is a subject of great inquiry around here is the counterintelligence information contained within the special counsel's investigation. We still haven't received those findings despite the fact that chairmanship and ranking member noon is in a joint bipartisan manner. Requested this. Formation. We must have that information so that we can protect our national security. All right. Congressman Roger Christian working. Thank you very much. Thank you. You congressional call to impeach Donald Trump is now officially bipartisan, and the president is allies are flipping out and trying to fight back phase of that, that up next. Hi, it's Katy Tur. Wanna keep up with MSNBC while you're on the go. Subscribe to the MSN BC daily newsletter. You'll get the best of what you've missed or in this unprecedented era of news, text MSNBC to six six eight six six to subscribe. Let me be clear Dom, again doesn't testify. It is time to open an impeachment inquiry. The president has engaged in an ongoing effort to impede are to find the truth. Congressman David says Leamy a member of democratic leadership raising the stakes of the showdown between the president congress threatening to open impeachment proceedings and inquiry formally. If former White House counsel, Don Mcgann defies, a subpoena to testify tomorrow, which it now, looks like he's going to do now that comes as call for impeachment has officially gun bipartisan over the weekend, congressman just in a mosh of Michigan became the first Republican to join in after completing his own review of the Muller report, explained his thinking in a long Twitter threat over the weekend, and it is worth, I have to say taking the time to read through that whole thing, a mosh as principal conclusions were that one attorney general bars deliberately misrepresented ballers report to President Trump has engaged in peachable, conduct three partisanship has a rooted, our system checks, and balances, and four few members of congress have read the report, he went on to say that contrary to bars portrayal Muller's report reveals a President Trump engaged in specific actions and a pattern of behavior that meet the threshold for impeachment. Now. Masha is a libertarian is broken with his party and the president before, but he still has a one hundred percent score. From freedomworks tea party conservative group, as far as we can tell he's not doing any interviews and isn't trying to get anything out of his new public stance. A mosh appears to have simply read the report, and come to the same conclusion reached by almost a thousand former federal prosecutors, we've also read it the president United States obstructed Justice, and in doing so violated his oath of office. For more on the reaction to Russia's call from from zone party, and joined by norm Ornstein resin scholar at the American Enterprise Institute co author of one nation after Trump norm. The reaction here is, is notable to me. You could make the argument that a mosh is sort of sui, generous. He has been an independent thinker? He's Brooklyn the party in the past the reaction, though from Kevin McCarthy, the president everyone on down is they seem pretty freaked out by no question. They're freaked out and they're trying to portray him as some kind of Kook and a lot of ways and not. One of them and it's right Chris that he has been an outlier in a lot of ways. He I came across my radar screen right after he came to congress. He would cast votes, including some that were present instead of a or nay, and then he would go on Facebook and other social media, too deeply explain why he'd voted the way he did to his constituents. And it was smart and in-depth. He's a pure libertarian. But he is a smart guy who takes his oath of office seriously, and most of his colleagues on the Republican side, have not this is Kevin McCarthy. I mean, clearly the work of the president tweeted out, clearly, the word went out to nuke the guy and this is Kevin McCarthy on TV doing just that take a listen. He votes more with Nancy Pelosi than he ever votes with me. It's a question, whether even in our Republican conference as a whole what he wants is attention in this process. He's not a criminal attorney. He's never met molar. He's never met bar, and now he's coming forward with this. It's very disturbing. This is exactly what you would expect from, just at he never supported the president. And I think he's just looking for attention just to note there. He did not vote more with Nancy Pelosi McCarthy. That's false. But the thing is fasting. He's, there's what so striking about what he's doing here is, there's no political upside to the guy. He's he's got. He's got a publican challenge Viet. Yeah. Immediate challenger who's gonna primary. He's going to have to end that off. There's no upside along Twitter threat over the weekend, saying, I think, the president should be beach. He gets nothing out of it. It's much easier to swallow your whistle. But obviously, he felt moved to say this, you know, it was interesting because when you have the committee that interviewed Michael Cohen, virtually every Republican. Attack Cohen and Justin Amash tried to dig in and find out what he knew. And when he knew it took his responsibility, seriously, and he's the only one who has and he's done this on Twitter in different places before. But you're absolutely right. The idea that this is some liberal, and somebody who's just out to get attention to further his own career is frankly bizarre, and it shows the degree to which, as you said, Republicans are freaked out because this is a card carrying Republican even if he is a pretty pure libertarian who has followed the conclusions read the report and taking it to where it belongs, which is obstruction of Justice. And as he indicated in his Twitter feed, very real logic and depth that you don't have to have a criminal offence to meet the threshold for high crimes and misdemeanors. And it's very, very powerful. Very interesting response. From house speaker Nancy Pelosi tonight when asked about this sheet just I'm OSH is now out past her right? I mean he is officially on the record. The president has committed impeachable offenses. This is what she says about what he says the pipe partisanship take a lesson. To one person speaking out, when SIL many Republicans have remained silent not honoring the earth developments to protect and defend. The constitution of is by arson typically looking for further proceedings. I said to my partial was necessary in the Senate. What do you think of that? Well Pelosi, I think is trying in a pragmatic way to say if we push forward with this, he's not going to be removed from office, and there may be enough of a blowback that it will enhance his chances of winning election, and downplay the democratic agenda, but an increasing number of her own members are I think, moving out in a different direction. It's going to be very hard to strike a different balance, and frankly, now that it is by partisan. It's going to make it more difficult, along with mcgann's refusal to testify not to move forward in some fashion, with at least a formal inquiry. And I must say at least her point about the Senate watching Mitt Romney dance around this, and refuse to make the kind of commitment that a Masha made is a little embarrassing to. All right. Norm ornstein? Thank you very much. Thanks. If Trump's former lawyer is indeed a no-show tomorrow looks right now. Like he will be despite subpoenaed appear for congress. At least one member of the judiciary committee committee says it's time to begin impeachment inquiry. That's next. What house counsel dumb again is now a private citizen, but according to a statement released through his lawyer tonight, he still taking direction from his former boss saying he quote remains obligated to maintain the status quo, and respect the president's instruction the Mcgann not appear as scheduled in front of the House Judiciary committee tomorrow. Joining me now, a member of that committee, who would be questioning dumb, again, where he to show up tomorrow congresswoman, Pramilla Giac hall of Washington state, your reaction to this announced intention on the part of dumb, again, not to come. Well, I mean, we were waiting for something like this to happen because the White House has been stalling and obstructing every step of the way it's ongoing. Obstruction done. Mcgann was ready to come. His letter to us says, you know, I've got these competing things. I'm going to go with the White House. But if you read the oil, c- opinion, that the White House sent and saying that they were exerting, essentially, immunity. Across the board for senior presidential advisers to not testify, that was most recently tested in two thousand seven hundred George W Bush with Harriet Myers, and I pulled out the quote, Chris that the district court judge said, and here's what he said. He said, the executive cannot identify a single judicial opinion that recognizes absolute immunity for senior presidential advisers in this, or any other context that simple yet, critical fact has been repeating bears, repeating the asserted, absolute immunity claim here is entirely unsupported by existing case law. So, in other words, this memo makes no sense. It is obviously a ploy just to continue the obstruction, and it's unfortunate that done Mcgann chose to listen to that. I think we had a lot of good questions for Don. Mcgann to get onto the table around what he heard specific instances. Where he heard the president obstruct Justice. Why is Mcgann key from your perspective? Well, I think he's key because he was actually there and his chief-of-staff any Donaldson. Her notes are also key. But he was actually there on a number of instances where the president tried to obstruct Justice around the firing of the special counsel, around telling rod Rosenstein, some of the things he told him four instances, where the president tried to get done again, this was going to be my line of questioning to actually say that he did not try to buy a special counsel. One of those was after the molar report was released. I mean one of the things I was thinking about is had had had dumb again. Come and testify before us. It wouldn't have just been about his role as a senior advisor to the president. It also would have been as a private citizen, because the fourth time the president asked him to deny what was true was when he was a private citizen. Your colleague on the committee. David cellini says, look, we're going to we should move towards a formal the opening of a formal impeachment inquiry in the house, in your committee, should he not show up today tomorrow. Do agree with that. I said yesterday that that's what I thought is. Well, if Don Mcgann did not come to testify before us because this is now just a pattern of obstruction ongoing obstruction stonewalling destruction of that very basic relationship between our Coequal branches of government. And so I think the only thing that we can do is to start that impeachment inquiry, and I think we have to be very clear what the American people, this doesn't mean the president's going to get impeach tomorrow. It means we start a process of hearings to get more information and to decide what we have in front of us, and whether or not it will precede informal impeachment proceedings. So it I think the American public has to understand this doesn't mean he's going to be. Drawer out that means we're starting an inquiry of funnel question on, on a piece of news happened before another committee. But I think bears on precisely what you're talking about here in terms of the questions of the structure transcripts of questioning Michael Kohn under oath before the house intelligence committee, in which he asserts that Jay Secolo, the presence of Terni told him to lie about Trump Tower Moscow. Is that a big deal to your mind? I think all of these instances where the president tells people to lie that should be a big deal to this case. I should just be clear. It's the president's attorney right now, who is being accused of doing that. We don't know if the president. Yeah. I mean, this is why we wanted to get all the underlying information so that we can look at exactly what was said, how it was said. But of course, if this turns out to be true, if there's other evidence that, that comes out that shows that the president actually directed Jay suck low to do this, then that would be a big problem. I think the reason you asked me earlier about Dom again. That's why this is so compelling. Don Mcgann directly said the president told him to lie and he would not do it. And that is huge. I think and that's information that the American people need to see. Eric congresswoman mill giant of the House Judiciary committee. Thank you for making time with me tonight. Thank you, Chris. If congress ultimately begins impeachment proceedings against President Trump today, we'll be seen. As a turning point, I think Jennifer Rubin and Kurt bud Davila. Join me next. There is now one Republican member of congress who is out in front, most prominent democratic politicians on whether the president has committed high crimes and misdemeanors. Republican congressman Justin Amash says he reached his conclusion by simply reading the publicly available Muller report something he thinks a lot of people in congress haven't done and on the day now and the administration is once again fighting tooth and nail along a variety of different ways to block congressional inquiry this time by directing. Former White House counsel Don Magana defy subpoena. It calls into question. Whether more Democrats will follow the Republican lead in calling for congress to impeach Donald Trump to talk more about this. I'm joined by Jennifer Rubin, congress, the Washington Post and Kurt bar, della contributor, both USA today, and BBC news think, and a former spokesperson for the Republican House committee on oversight, Jennifer. For all of what you can say about Justin Amash. It distracts me a significant. The, the adjective, bipartisan calls for impeachment now, exists in the world and cannot be unraveling. Correct that he is a solitary figure is a sad commentary on the Republicans. But it does say that this is Nolan are purely a partisan affair. And Moreover, I think what he did laying out the step-by-step analysis for why there is obstruction of Justice is the most effective thing. Any member of congress has done to explain this to the American people. Why the House Democrats have been so incapable of breaking this down? I don't know with charts or short phrases. I don't know. But he was able to do it in a thread on Twitter. And for the life of me, I can't understand why they find it so difficult to tell the story which is what they're really attempting to do by calling him a gone by calling Barr and others. Kurt. This is such an obvious question was such an obvious answer. I hesitate almost ask it, but I wanna hear from his mouth, you work for girl is on the on the oversight committee for the Republican majority when. The majority with this set of facts against president Hillary Clinton would a Republican House already be moving to formerly towards impeachment. Absolutely chris. I mean it almost begs not even asking the question, because there is no doubt, by the way, I wonder if you would even get pushback from, like a lot of Republicans on that just seems like an obvious thing like the earth revolves around the sun. Right. Well, and this is the thing Chris, I watched for years as we issued more than one hundred subpoenas to the Obama administration. If the Obama administration had done anything like the level of obstruction that we're seeing from congressional Republicans supporting this president and this administration, completely saying no to every piece of oversight that this committee is trying to conduct if that had happened during the Obama years, they would've move for impeachment. And I think back now as I watch Jim Jordan, and Mark meadows members of the oversight judiciary committee's, stand by and do nothing as this president runs roughshod over check and balances the same. Mm checks and balances that they exhaustively ad nauseam, talked about the justify their what they call vigilant necessary oversight of the Obama administration. They're doing nothing. Now, the fact that just in the mosh is, the only Republican right now that's willing to read the report, and draw a logical conclusion that other former use attorneys have drawn the same conclusion that the president obstructed Justice committed crimes. The fact that no one else is willing to do that. Underscores how Solis how morally bankrupt how completely hypocritical the Republican party has become. Why do you think Jennifer? We saw the sort of going nuclear reaction from McCarthy from House Republicans. And from the president on this may cannot have one infidel, because from one infidel that will be more infidels. So they have to make sure that they so intimidate every other member. This is not meant to harm ama-. It's meant to send a signal to everybody else, which is you will politically die. If you follow this guy, and therefore, we're going to come down like a ton of bricks on you on. And I think is very revealing. Frankly, about how nervous they are that people would actually start reading the report, and it was very interesting. Mitt Romney went on Sunday and said I've read the report and I don't see all the elements of intent. I don't see all the elements. Well, wrote a piece today saying what do you mean six of these categories of behavior have all of the elements according to Muller? What's your explanation and his office really didn't have any explanation? Thought of an excuse. And that's what the Republicans are doing coming up with one kind of silly picky you excuse after another rather than saying, you know, in a bunch of instances there wasn't intent. There was action it was tied to a proceeding, and that's what makes obstruction and it wasn't one incident, it was a whole bunch of them. And by the way, with regard to mcgahn understand what they are doing. They are saying that the guy who came and testified to Mahler, which is inner report, which is public cannot come to congress, and repeat that same testimony to congress. And you know what I think that's about executive producer put it this way today. And I thought it was a very good line that they have the book, but they don't want it to be made to movie. I think that's right. Kurt. Like it's like, yeah there's this five hundred page report sitting there, that's not the way, the things are to be communicated, and people getting up and saying it in twenty second sound bytes in the evening news. Even the local evening news is probably what they fear. Well, there's no question about that. And and again, look at the impact that Michael Cohen's testimony before congress had both in driving the president aplastic, but also and the ruling today in district court where the court held in ruled that the oversight committee has a right to subpoena documents tax documents, Michael Cohen testimony. The fact that he testified and said these things under oath in front of congress is cited multiple times. Right. The judge's decision and so extrapolate that to Dom. Again, there's a reason why they don't want Mcgann to do this, because they know that as other battles are going to happen for sure in court. That is going to be used as referenced a poking racial oversight authority. Jennifer Rubin and kirpan LA thank you both for joining us. President Trump is reportedly considering pardons for you. A service members who are convicted or facing trial for war crimes Lawrence. Wilkerson jones. Me on that just ahead. Sixteen-year-old Guatemalan child has died in US custody. Carlos gregoria. And then there's Vasquez was apprehended by customs and border protection. On may thirteenth. He ended up in the west loco border patrol station in Texas, where officials say he was quote, found unresponsive this morning for two patrol says, they don't know the cause of death, but he had been diagnosed with the flu. The day before he is the fifth migrant child to die after being detained in US custody since just December there were seven year old Jacquilene coma, keen, eight-year-old, Philippi, Gomez, Alonzo, died in December sixteen year old one, they live lay on Gutierez died last month and a two and a half year old boy died last week. The Trump administration has deflected any responsibility at every turn even attempting to blame desperate. Parents for their own children's fate, listen to then D H secretary cures to Nielsen on the death of little Jack lean. My heart goes out to the family at all of all of DHS. This is just a very sad example of the dangers of this journey. This family chose to cross illegally family chose to count cross legally so, well, we still have no full accounting of what is happening in these facilities. There is general consensus that they are wholly inadequate to the task. They now face. There's also a real question about the culture of the customs and border protection agency that views itself as holding the line against dangerous infiltrators, but is in fact, right now largely responsible for processing, thousands of desperate migrants fleeing violence and often turning themselves in and more broadly, there are questions about the direction and management of the entire department of homeland security, which now has an acting head who head of C VP new is one of the members to survive. Stephen Miller, led purge against those viewed as too soft on immigrants, which is to say there is very much humanitarian crisis at the border in the Trump administration is exacerbating it day by deadly day. This week, we learned that Donald Trump appears to be moving toward granting pardons to US service members who have either been convicted of or are facing trial for war crimes New York Times reporting. The Trump administration had made expedited requests for paperwork to grant pardons on or around Memorial Day, any of those servicemembers, Trump is reportedly moving towards pardoning have been championed on Trump TV including navy seal Edward Gallagher whose trial set to begin next week Gallagher is accused of shooting and killing an unarmed. Elderly man and school aged girl from the snipers, nests firing machine-guns indiscriminately into crowds of civilians, and stabbing a defenseless teenage captive to death. And then posing the corpse Gallagher was first accused of the crimes by his fellow seals when navy investigators said had grown. So concerned they would not tell him when his sniper rifle settings were off and wood fire warning shots to clear areas of civilians when he was around. Gulliver's lawyer says his client is being falsely accused. By his former colleagues among the other folks, that Trump is believed to be moving towards pardoning is a former contractor for blackwater not to be clear, a US servicemember named nNcholas Latin. He was convicted of first degree murder for his role in a mass shooting in Iraq, that killed fourteen on armed Iraqi civilians in other potential pardon involves marine staff sergeant charged with urinating on the corpses of dead, Taliban fighters, enact that was captured on video. The fact that we've learned the Trump administration is moving toward granting, these pardons suggest, to me, at least that there are people inside the Justice department and, or the Pentagon who are deeply disturbed by the possibility of the parts and joining me now Colonel Warren's Wilkerson, former chief of staff to secretary State, Colin Powell Colonel. What message would pardon such as these send? I would be extremely disturbed if I were in the Justice department or in the Pentagon also takes me back to win. Donald Trump sell under Dick Cheney's tutelage authorized, the armed forces to engage in along with the CIA torture. And we got the photographs at Abu Ghraib. This is like reaching into that prison, where horrible things happen. And grabbing the worst offenders and saying, I think I'll pardon you, not only that it's also interfering with that system, the legal system, but for the president to say these things before trial actually occurs, but it's very disturbing of good order and discipline in the military. It is the most heinous thing. President could do with respect to the uniform code of military, military Justice, the legal system within the military and with respect to that good order and discipline in the military. There will be people who will hate Donald Trump for doing this, and they'll be wearing uniforms. Yeah. It's that on that last point, you know, I think he'll he. He views in his mind has mental model of this, that he'll be created as a liberator to use a phrase that, you know, obviously, the US military will love this. The Pentagon will love this, my sense of what I know and the reporting I've ever done. The Pentagon is that at the Pentagon, particularly this would go over terribly. You're absolutely right. I mean everyone will be talking about the bone spur president. This is not something that'll Brill, the basic, fundamental entourage, in the Pentagon. This is something that will Paul them. This is something that will disturb them majorly because as I said, it's hard enough to maintain good order and discipline, especially in combat. But when you got something going on, like this from the highest levels of policy making decision making in the land the president the Oval Office. It's reprehensible in the military will see it that way. You know, I've wanted to talk to you for a while now as the conversation about Iran has intensified kinda world words selective leaking of intelligence. It's purports to show increased Iranian threats you were in an administration where there was talk about the possibility of regime change in Iran, with John Bolton who was in that administration. What do you make of where we are right now with respect to Iran Grizz, one of two things is happening? The first boss ability is Trump is using Bolton is his front man as his call him in rocket man put pressure on Ruhani put maximum tension on Tehran and Trump's objective here strategically is to get talks and to get a better deal. And that's what he's after that would take some cunning some cleverness, and even some strategic forethought, so not for a moment, do I really believe that's what Trump is doing. Instead, what I think is happening is underneath Trump's basic in a tension. It is John Bolton and others like trombone who are leading this administration with regard to its policy toward, Iran. And I know what John Bolton. Once he wants her GM change. And if that takes, and he's allied with Mohammed bin Salman is buddy in the UA with BB Netanyahu, and if that takes bombs dropping on Tehran as a as a sort of start. That's what John Bolton. We'll get Trump's inattention to it. We'll bring that about I'm hoping I'm hoping that Bolton slips up here he's not the smartest man in the world as some people alleged. I've met him. I talked to him. I knew what he thought about war North Korea and so forth. I'm hoping he slips up and I hope Trump winds up getting rid of him because he's getting a little bit too far out in front of the president right now. And I'm hearing rumblings that Trump is not liking that one of the things that Bolton appears to be arguing is that there would be no need for any congressional authorization here. And in fact, they they appeared of cry delay a few predicates for using the AM f- famously pass after the September eleventh attacks. What do you think of that argument? Well, palm Pao's actually testified to the congress in an indirect way that he does. Doesn't think any further. Authorization is necessary. I think I've heard a lot of powerful congressman, and I hope they'll find some courage, ear political and moral and live up to this say that isn't going to happen. Tim came from Virginia, and a number of others have said that's not going to happen, not on our watch. The president is not going to use the nine eleven a UMF authorize action in Iran. Of course, the president could go ahead and do it. And then that's just another marker down there for impeachment. How do you think the Iranians is someone who worked on this issue quite a bit, and sort of thought through how these international relations play out? How do you think the Iranians are modeling what's happening here right now? I think the, the administration has made a real era here in, in thinking that Ruhani's reef and the rest are Kim Jong UN his crowd. They're not all Kim Jong UN wanted, was meet with the president, I states that gave him great status. These guys are not Kim Jong. We are stealing them right now and steel with two E's. Yep. We're giving them resolution. The reason intelligence on Iranian activity was a farce because what it was reporting was a runs attempts to defend itself, and its deployment of missiles and so forth to do so understandable. When the United States is threatening to send one hundred and twenty thousand troops to Iraq tomorrow morning. I mean, this is very understandable. Iran is not North Korea. Iran is not Iraq, Iran will fight, and they will fight back and they will do so symmetrically. So to interpret their movements recently as as in the region was absolutely stupid. I understand why boat and we'll do it because both wants an incident but it's stupid to be doing this. The Iranians are not the Iraqis. All right. Colonel. Lawrenceville Choson as always great pleasure having you on. Thank you. That does it for all in. You can catch us every weeknight at eight o'clock on MSNBC. Don't forget to like us on Facebook. That's Facebook dot com slash all in with Chris. I'm Chuck Rosenberg. My new podcast youth, Rosenberg is based. On a simple premise thoughtful conversations with interesting people like Jim combing. Lisa, Monaco, and prepere are each of them took an oath as I did to support and defend the constitution of the United States. The oath with Chuck, Rosenberg. Listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

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Look Back in Anger

On The Media

50:58 min | 2 years ago

Look Back in Anger

"WNYC studios is supported by Kerman spader. A national litigation firm advising companies and business disputes internal investigations and commercial matters. When the lawyer you choose matters most online at Zuckerman dot com. Listener supported w in Y C studios. This is on the media. I'm Brooklyn stone. And I'm Bob Garfield this week to gigantic Trump stores were slated to occur simultaneously on opposite sides of the globe both fundamentally about our president though in one case in absent shy and both so keenly anticipated that many media watchers predicted that cable news would have to present them on a split screen the events in Hanoi with the president in Karnik was his second meeting with supreme leader king Jong last year. They captured the world's attention with Trump's charm offensive in Singapore. This year he sought to recapture some of that magic and to finish. What he never actually started taking a big step towards North Korea's denuclearization. It was a big fizzle on both counts. That's right. It's over and there was no deal to curb North Korea's nuclear weapons program. This time we decided not to do any of the. And we'll see where that goes some say the deal failed because Trump was woefully willfully. Unprepared. As for the magic, it was gone. Not that the audience doesn't enjoy some improv or a high wire act, but is much less appetite for reruns. And there was a hot ticket live show right here at home. Michael Cohen, Trump's former personal lawyer in an all day engagement for the house oversight committee. The fact checkers and the news analysts have had their way with it. But the drama worked its way into the amid delay and hippocampus of every viewer who thrilled or cloud or mostly cringed at the spectacle. But found it hard to turn away. It was monotonous sometimes since some committee members were reading from the same page, but it was gripping and it was also familiar a popular genre a procedural with a dash of movie mob. Melodrama thrown in. The organized crime type of language has kind of been a theme throughout this president's. I know all about flipping for thirty forty years, I've been watching flippers. Everything's wonderful. And then they get ten years in jail, and they flip on whoever the next highest one is and then there's Michael Kohn talking about threatening people on Wednesday. How many times did Mr. Trump ask you to threaten and individual or entity on his behalf quite a few times fifty times more one hundred times more two hundred times more five hundred time. Probably and a lot of people have made this observation nNcholas Poletti who can screen plays for goodfellas and casino. He told the New York Times that it rang fetch a bell with him that Trump was surrounded by these people being raised in that environment. It was normalized to him at the same time. I was actively negotiating in Russia for him. He would look me. In the eye and tell me there's no Russian business. I do take your point about mob movies when Cohen was testifying on Wednesday about how Trump would tell him how to testify without actually telling him how to testify. He doesn't give you questions. He doesn't give you orders. He speaks in code. And I understand the code because I've been around him for a decade that sounded familiar you ever get such an order directly from Michael Corleones. Now, I never talked. It was so willy chichi. The Corleones family soldier who got other part two was testifying before what looked very much like the kief offer committee on organized crime chichi could you amplify your answer? Was there always buffering, Bob? One in between you and your possible. Superiors gave the accurate, right? Yeah. Roughly the family had a lot of buffers. Yeah. Interesting side note from the key father hearings were televised live back in nineteen fifty one. And they were a blockbuster. I was reading about them women. They said neglected their housework. Thirty million people tuned in at New York's federal building alleged awful lot of gambling. Frank Costello arrives to face the senatorial gambling probe. Frank Erickson, convicted bookmaker is also on hand. And then later that year Americans chose the committee chairman, see ST's key father, who is a first time, Tennessee democrat as one of the ten most admired men right up there with the pope and Albert Einstein crime investigating committee headed by Senator stays keep Haller left swept into New York, uncovering hidden criminal activities. This was a housecleaning that lifted the rugs indeed so organized crime. Yes. The the echoes were everywhere. But I also heard some other Hollywood echoes. There was even some Woody Allen when the Republican Jody hice said, and it's a shameful mockery of what our purpose is. And Mark green of Tennessee said is presence. Here is a travesty. I'm like, this is bananas. Literally, Brooke the courtroom scene from the movie bananas. It's a trap Stephen mockery and a sham the mockery and travesty to mockeries of sham but look what really struck me on Wednesday had nothing to do with courtroom dramas or farces. What struck me was dickens what? Okay, bear with me. Here was Cohen in his opening statement. I am ashamed of my weakness and my misplaced loyalty of the things. I did for Mr. Trump in an effort to protect and promote him. I'm Shane that. I chose to take part in concealing, Mr. Trump's illicit axe rather than listening to my own conscience that was nominally an uphill. Apology, but as the day progressed, I think it took on a new cast when Tennessee Republican Jim Cooper asked Cohen why after so many years he decided to turn on the president Cohen restated that apology more as a warning to the president's see no evil supporters a raid on the day s in front of them when they on a day if it was elevated. Okay. I did the same thing that you're doing now. And I can only warn people the more people that follow Mr. Trump as I did blindly are going to suffer the same consequences that I'm suffering. It was like this is your future if it was right out of a Christmas. Carol Cohen was the ghostly Jacob Morley. And the Republicans were Scrooge kid one you to save you. That'd be. I'm such a feta's mind, but you were. Always good man business. Jacob business. Kind of my business. Kennedy forbearance benevolent all my business as they should be yours. Soon after his must see testimony Michael Cohen confirmed that he would return to the house for another round of questioning on March six meanwhile quietly in the background special counsel, Robert Muller pursues his two pronged investigation into whether the president his family or his aides colluded with Russia to help him win. And whether they've interfered with any investigations into election related activity overwhelming and extremely difficult to parse filled with misfires false alarms on intoxicating. Intrigue. The press have turned the saga of Muller's secret investigation into the best worst crime drama never. Today. The press had reported on nearly a hundred and fifty characters in the mother pro including politicians investigators policemen petty criminals, offspring and erstwhile Trump aids. All potential clues with potential roles in the special counsels forthcoming final report. And so to help you make sense of the rumors and revelations to come we bring you the latest of our breaking news, consumers handbooks. The Muller addition Eric human ski is a deputy managing editor at propublica and a co host of Trump Inc. A podcast produced by propublica and WNYC Eric welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. So start by taking a look at some of the reporting on Muller. That's lead us astray. Remember big picture? We all knew Paul Manafort had long and extensive links to the Russian government affiliated oligarchs. What is new tonight is this reported meeting with? That other group you don't want to have contact with WikiLeaks, specifically its leader, Julian Assange, this was first reported by the guardian in November of two thousand eighteen in the guardian has never retracted the story other outlets picked it up. Why should we question its veracity by put that story into the category of the permanent? Exclusive aim exclusive is a wonderful thing to have you get the information before everybody else, then what you want is for other people to conclude the same thing. Now. Other people picked it up. Right. But here's a key distinction. If another place is picking up if they're just crediting the guardian the guardian reports ex well that doesn't mean that they have corroborated it, which brings us to another bombshell. President Trump is facing new scrutiny today over report that he told his personal attorney to lie to congress about his business dealings with Russia. That is according to a BuzzFeed news reports. Citing sources in the southern district of New York. What was really explosive about the BuzzFeed article was according to two sources, Michael Kohn has given the goods in some fashion or another to federal prosecutors has BuzzFeed seeing the evidence not at all clear, some people at a special prosecutor's office may well have told BuzzFeed reporters, something I can't imagine that the BuzzFeed reporters are lying about that. That doesn't mean that it is actually true or that the evidence exists for it. The special counsel spokesperson. Peter Carr said that buzzfeed's description of specific statements and characterizations of documents and testimony. We're not accurate does Michael Collins testimony Wednesday change that for you at all Michael Cohen said on the one hand, I was never instructor. Did by the president to lie on the other hand, he made it very very clear to me what he wanted by constantly asking about the business in Russia about their tower deal while literally saying, you know, Michael there's no tower deal in a way. The BuzzFeed story may be wrong in the details. But right in its conclusion. Yes, it eight is a quantum physics scoop. It is both simultaneously, right and wrong. I think at this point. It'd be useful to define our terms for anybody who's been reading this coverage and will in the future links to Russia. That's a phrase we just talked about, but there are fifty shades of collusion, right? In fact, links to Russia whenever I see that kind of thing. It means almost nothing to right. It is so vague I have links to Russia. I reported there for three or size does my family when they were in the shuttle, the US has a long glorious history as do most countries of foreign boogeyman. It's currently Russia is in that spot with plenty of evidence suggesting it should be. But again, it's not a shortcut for diligence the collusion versus conflicts of interest. I think is crucial, and I think is not appreciated enough. There's lots of stuff that's deeply problematic before collusion. Just take. What we know that? Presidential candidate was working on a deal in a nother country secretly that. He later lied about. That is colleagues lied about under oath. Why is that problematic? Well, Trump's operating in his own interest, which turns out as it happens potentially to be foreign adversary of the United States interest. There are those who would have you believe that? The Muller investigation is a big sham. Many of the president's party in the Senate, the president himself, and of course, many of his allies in the media. So let's listen to some of the language they use to discredit the indictments of former national security adviser, Michael Flynn and political operative Roger stone and his indictment is not even for a violent crime. It has nothing to do with Russia or collusion. It's a process crime. You keep asking the same questions over and over and over hoping they'll be a mistake. And when there is you indict can't get him on an actual crime. So the old perjury trap always becomes the fallback in the Muller camp of democratic donors. Now, what do they mean by process crimes you now have the president's former campaign manager, the president's national security adviser, the president's former lawyer all busted for. Lying. So I guess you could take the perspective that gee, all they're being busted for lying. Okay. Nobody has been charged with active collusion. The other way to think about that is wait a second. Why are all these guys lying, obstruction and cover-ups? We're how they got out Capone, president Nixon. There's no end to people who are apprehended on obstruction because it's easier. It's low hanging fruit. What they're really after is the tree and it raises substantive questions. I mean, you don't lie to prosecutors. You don't lie to congress. It's a really bad idea. Right. And it's illegal. So I guess you could dismiss all of that. Where were you can say, well, gee, that's really worthy of further digging into why they did it. So Muller means many things. Two different people too. Many people Muller represents a day is X mocking a way to get us out of this mess, and this may be a bummer for people. But when they think when is the Muller report gonna come. They're really thinking like when can I open up, my laptop and take a look at it. You may not be able to do that for a long long time. It is not going to be made public initially. It goes to the attorney general attorney general Bill Barr appointed by nominated by President Trump. There's a little history behind house special prosecutor reports can be released and this really goes back to Ken Starr's investigation of Bill Clinton. Right. So after that and all the salacious details that we were all fixated on congress felt a little bit icky about it all to me and changed the law. So that it doesn't necessarily become public. In all glorious detail. There's a highlight reel that goes to congress that's mandated, but it's the attorney general who decides what those highlights are. And if congress wants to get hold of the full report, I guess they have to subpoena it could. And then we're in a whole fa Kochta legal battle about getting it. So it's quite possible. That those of us hanging on the mullahs report will never ever see. And by the way, that's only the first year of why Muller should not be considered as you said, the dais X, mocking Muller's job isn't to look at everything. He is just a piece in the rube Goldberg investigative contraption that is now at work on Trump. Just a piece, by the way, a lot of times you'll see in stories that say federal prosecutors in Manhattan, right? That is. Not the Muller people that is the southern district of New York who have their own multiple things they are looking into including the inauguration. They're looking into Trump's businesses. It's a whole different group of folks you want to go through them. So then keeping with the New York theme, you have the new York Attorney General looking into the Trump foundation, then you have New York tax authorities and the question of avation of taxes. There's the New York Times remarkable story has always portrayed himself as a master businessman using the art of the deal to turn a small loan into a global empire. But now in New York Times investigation claims he was actually given a fortune from his father's real estate company often through quote dubious tax schemes, then you have the Manhattan DA looking into Manafort former campaign manager who is already likely to be staying. Governments housing for free for the rest of his life. If you know what I'm saying. Then you move down the coast a little bit to Maryland and the district of Columbia. They haven't emoluments lawsuit night personal faith thing. Just because you like the word emoluments due the emoluments clause that bans foreign governments from giving free things to the president. Right. And then the congressional investigations Wednesday. Michael Cohen was speaking at the house oversight committee. But that is not the only committee digging in to Trump, you have judiciary ways, and means and intelligence, I'm sure I'm missing others. And I'm sure there are others that are coming that. We haven't gotten to yet we have to be skeptical when some people say Muller's done Robert Muller's report may land at literally at any minute now. Whatever you think of all of this things are getting very serious very quickly. What's in it? And how soon it comes out? All of that stuff is purely fueled by rumor and anybody who's interested in the story really want to know that by now, right? I've always felt that there was too much coverage of Muller report. I think one of your points for news consumers is don't sweat the small stuff huge cast of characters. Confusing plotlines how can you possibly tell the difference between small-scale stuff and big small stuff and enormous stuff? Other than by keeping up with everything. There are lots of people paying attention to this. There are people who are paid to pay attention to it. We will synthesize all of this stuff. We will put together the big picture, you know, it's like following a little kids train tracks. That twist all in a million different ways. But still are going to end up at the door. And if you wanna pick up the train at the end, just wait at the end. And thank you very much for coming on the show. Thanks for. Having me. Eric humanity is a deputy managing editor with propublica and a co host of the Trump Inc podcast from propublica and WNYC studios. And always you can find our breaking news consumers. Handbook Muller addition at on the media dot org. Coming up journalism is good history is good. So together, they must be perfect not necessarily this is on the media. WNYC studios is supported by Lincoln learning. We're all at different places in our careers. Some of you are looking for a job others are trying to get promoted manager team or do something new wherever you're at Lincoln learning has more than thirteen thousand courses taught by industry experts to help you succeed in your own way, anytime anywhere. Visit Lincoln learning dot com slash career to get a month free and to keep learning all the career moments that matter to you. This is on the media. I'm Brooke Gladstone, and I'm Bob Garfield this week the house of representatives voted to block President Trump's national emergency declaration for building a border wall. The latest step towards constitutional crisis and impotent gesture in the face of gathering, thorough -tarian ISM or was it as some have concluded just evidence that Trump the strongman has been a weakling all along the public doesn't appear to be with the president to recent CNN poll found that sixty five percent of Americans on average oppose the president's national emergency. He says, he's fulfiling an election promise. But if you presses ahead with thirty two percent support for this national emergency that could hose him in in twenty twenty. Couldn't it is this a sign of weakness on President Trump's pot. I absolutely think it's a sign of weakness for those of us in the Trump is a threat to democracy community sounding the alarms for three years about encroaching. Fascism. This trending notion of impotence sounds almost blasphemous, but it's also deeply rooted in historical analysis, so many, you know, citations and references and precedents has a better more, historically informed. Understanding of Trumpism changed the narrative in a recent post for New York magazine, political theorist, Corey Robin says maybe but beware of the historic. Vox, a tendency to launder journalistic hot takes through history. He says that something goes missing. When pundits look only backward. What goes missing is captured really well by famous quote from or well that says to see what is in front of one's nose needs. A constant struggle said one thing that helps toward it. That is seeing in front of your nose is to keep a diary or at any rate to keep some kind of record of one's opinions about important events other. Hawaii's when some particularly absurd belief is exploded by events one. May simply forget that one ever held it. We all have a picture of the world and in the age of the historic that picture of the world is provided to us by this nexus of journalists and academics, but that picture seems to change with a kind of an alarming repeatedly. And we forget that not so long ago, we had very different understanding of these things. Now, there are different ways, you can employ history and one obviously is cherry picking you can advance almost any argument. If you choose the Stoorikhel events that seem to validate your premise and ignore the others that would argue against your premise do see that happening. That's sort of stacking the historical dick, I think there's actually something even more pernicious to be honest with you than that. Let's take the last couple of years there were all kinds of historical arguments. Advanced about Trump as a reprieve of Mussalini Anna's, fascism that Donald Trump's rhetoric of law and order is very Hitler like and the problem as I saw it was not so much that people were cherry picking from the past. It was the total indifference and lack of curiosity about what was happening as or will said right in front of your nose for the first two years when the Republicans completely controlled congress, Trump sent up to budgets. He asked for things like cut off all funding for Planned Parenthood twenty five billion dollars for the wall. Billions of dollars more for hundreds of new enforcement officers in ice, those budgets were repeatedly rejected by a Republican controlled congress. The simplest definition of authoritarian is somebody who substitutes for the rule of law. His will. And yet Trump was singularly incapable of acting upon his will. So the problem here is not cherry picking from the past. The problem is a composite picture. In the past. That's overlaid on the present that is indifferent to some pretty strong facts. The one argument against restore of is that it keeps kind of flip flopping it's taken on executive power. For example, seems to shift between president and president the analysis of the Obama administration a little bit different than the Trump administration. I think that's true. So during the Obama years, the predominant theory of the presidency was that it's an extraordinarily weak institution that President Obama can't do much of a concrete plan without congress getting on board in some fashion and that its weaknesses best expressed in the impotence of presidential rhetoric. People say things like oh, the the president should use his bully pulpit. And if he says the right words, he can rally the Republic and get congress to pass legislation. The congress doesn't want to pass it's kind of the west wing view of the presidency. You might say and so a lot of political scientists and journalists. Spent eight years of the Obama year saying, you know, this is just not the way the presidency works. The conclusion was that presidential rhetoric. Hypnosis can't make people do what the otherwise are going to do. Correct. But then oddly Trump comes along, and it's almost the reverse. There has been this notion that Trump's tweets are going to turn the Republic into a raving hotbed of white nationalism with a racist majority marauding and rampaging throughout the country before president reviewed as weak. And now they're viewed as extraordinarily potent particularly in the rhetorical capacities. The question to me is not which view is right. I'm more struck by the whiplash the speed at which one view is junked for another. All right, Cory. Now. We have talked about journalistic practice, but I don't wanna end this conversation before considering your own political analysis, the notion that Trump is. Like most presidents fundamentally weak, and that in his case, it's not just the weakness of the executive, but just him battling the other institutions and branches of government even his own party. Now, if you'll forgive me for historic vox. It seems to me that those are the very conditions that nourish authoritarianism historically from the Roman Republic to Hitler, inciting zealous minorities and abusing democratic mechanisms to subvert democracy. So tell me again, what we shouldn't be very very worried about Trump as cornered rat. There's no doubt that weak ruler may end up attempting to circumvent restrictions that can result in worrisome activity. I don't think that is really up for debate. The question is whether or not he'll succeed in that regard, look at what happened Trump was not able to get funding for his wall. And so it's higher election campaign. This is a referendum on my immigration policy. Caravan's if you want more crime vote democrat tomorrow. And he lost catastrophically. Now, the warnings going into those elections where twofold one Trump could suspend the elections, we might not have midterms elections. This was a prediction that was repeatedly made throughout the last two years. And then the warning was they won't under the results of the election will lo and behold they did. So now, we have a democratic house. So Trump wants to the anti again, he engaged in strong arm tactics. He promises shutdown and lo and behold, it doesn't work. So now he is going to come out with one point three billion dollars. And now he upset again with his state of emergency. I the house of representatives votes to rebuke him the Senate may rebuke him Trump will then have to veto a Bill you do see a kind of esscalation. But what you don't see is Trump actually being able to succeed in gaining his wishes weak rulers may attempt authoritarian measures, but precisely because they are weak. They will. Probably fail and the other dismantling of the regulatory apparatus of government the damage to our alliances the cozying up to dictators those are not actual damaged. So I think we have to be really careful here. The question that's on the table was not contract and are Republicans doing damage, but whether or not it's -tarian, so let's take that apart a little bit. The regulatory apparatus. There is no doubt that Trump is seeking to dismantle the regulatory apparatus it just so happens to be that that is a long standing Republican party principle that began under Ronald Reagan and got increasing traction under his regime, and then also I should say under Bill Clinton's regime, and then George W Bush if we want to start calling something like that authorities. We're really moving in a very different direction because deregulation and gutting the regulatory apparatus has been a hallmark of what we called Neo liberalism. For a very long time in terms of damage to alliances. Trump from the get-go said he was going to pull out of NATO. It actually hasn't really happened. And in terms of cozying up to dictators. Of course, we have the problem that there's nothing particularly new about American presidents cozying up to dictators. Whether it's Saudi Arabia or Ronald Reagan, praising reaced Mont the watermelon dictator who presided over regime of genocide these are all longstanding problems within the American polity. And here's where the question of historical memory. I think becomes very important. If we wanna Recode all of that is Thawra -tarian ISM or even frankly the attempt by president to evade the will of congress by using his executive branch authority. I mean Obama had to do that all the time. We're really running the risk of you know, everything becomes under the rubric of authoritarianism, including a lot of previous presidents. So we either go. Down that road or then we become partisans. I know that was different Trump is the only one, and I think this is where this historic vox complex gets us into trouble. We either become very partisan, and we just deploy categories only against the president's. We don't like or we become kind of homogenize IRS and everything all presidents authoritarian because they've done a lot of these things are you suggesting Korean I just want to get to the the nub of this that I simply submit my resignation now and apologize to my audience. Or would you say that I have a chance at redemption? I love your show. That's all I'm gonna. And you know, seriousness. I think the issues that have been raised by the Trump regime are really profound ones. And I think we've had a long overdue conversation on this question of Thawra, -tarian ISM. I suspect that in the remaining two years of what I hope is his first and only term that we're going to see even more signs of weakness. And I hope what we do is not just junk, the authoritarian discussion say okay now, we're onto weakness, but try to be a little bit. Again, mindful of the past not only what has happened in the past. But also how we have thought about the past versus how we think about the present. And not just junk one frame for another. But ask ourselves is there some kind of a frame that helps us make sense of the ongoing this of these elements, if this is a question of framing, how should we frame the current moment the couple of elements number one rather than representing a break with the right Trump. P- represents an intensification of long standing tendencies on the right, particularly with respect to questions about race number two that intensification on the right goes hand in hand with what I think is a steady weakening of the conservative movement. In other words, rather than seeing Trump and conservatism as embodying new ascendancy, I think that a proper historical reckoning would see everything about the Trump regime as a sign of growing weakness. I sometimes use an analogy from the past if you were in Britain in the second half of the nineteen seventies on the left that we're group of Trotskyists, and they became increasingly militant if you were to focus on them. You would think the story of the second half of Britain in the nineteen seventies is the rise of the militant tendency. But of course, we know the real story was the rise of Thatcherism a group can become more radicalized more extreme precisely in concert with its margin. Malaysian and all the signs are that compared to somebody like, Richard Nixon. Ronald Reagan, George W Bush, Trump is presiding over very weak Republican presidency. Not because the presidency is weak. But I would argue because the conservative movement and the Republican party had gotten weaker, and that has gone hand in hand with kind of intensification of certain extreme tendencies on the Republican party. What you seem to be describing is supernova burning brightly with from Indus amount of destructive energy because it's dying star. I think that's perfectly put Corey thank you very much. Thank you, Corey Robin is professor political science at Brooklyn, college and the CUNY graduate center. His New York magazine post is called why is taken the so long to see Trump's weakness. If you're the kind of person who gets a chill when the president fires up in Reno of believers, you ain't heard nothing yet. This is on the media. This is on the media. I'm Bob Garfield. And I'm glad stone. And that's the sound of the stonemasons March of the German American bund founded in nineteen thirty six it had approximately twenty five thousand members and seventy chapters around the country while the Nazis were building concentration camps. The bund held pro Hitler retreats and summer camps February twentieth marked the eightieth anniversary of the boons. Most notorious event when twenty thousand of its members gathered at Madison Square Garden for a quote pro American rally, featuring speeches and performances staged in front of a thirty foot high portrait of George Washington. The rally is the subject of the Oscar nominated documentary short or should I say very short a night at the garden, by filmmaker Marshall curry Marshall, welcome to- TM. Thanks so much. For having me. Can we start with the thirty second ad for your documentary because it's had a media moment of its own. It was not exactly what we expected we decided to put an ad on Sean Hannity show. And so we there why? Well, we felt like the film was something that people who watch Sean Hannity show needed to say the film about a rally in Madison Square Garden, it is to me a cautionary tale about the tactics demagogues used to with up Americans against each other. And when I saw the footage for the first time, I was really struck by how similar it seemed to Trump rallies today, not to say that Donald Trump is a Nazi. But I do think that he uses similar tactics to the ones that we see in the film. So you wanted to put it on Hannity, and then what happened? So we edited an ad that is literally just footage from the rally that night historical. And a couple of poke quotes from press reports about the film and the CEO of Fox News stepped in and personally rejected the ad from airing on Hannity show. Fez, it just found the imagery to disturbing right, but reporters began surfacing other examples of Fox News advertisements that included imagery that was at least as disturbing. Dinesh D'Souza 's quote, unquote, documentary had Nazi imagery. That was aired on FOX that suggested that the left were Nazis. That's right. Yeah. And the ad on Tucker Carlson show showed Nazi imagery. So the reason that they were giving was on its face on true. So why do you think FOX rejected it? I think that they thought it was a little close to home. The Washington Post had written a story when we first replacing the ad. And that story connected. The dots between what was happening in nineteen thirty nine and. What I think is happening today. And I'm sure that that story made its way up the chain of command at Fox News. And they decided that they didn't want their audience to see this moment of history for some reason or other how did you come upon it? I have a friend who was writing the screenplay that takes place in New York in nineteen thirty nine, and we were at dinner, and he asked me whether I knew about the rally, and I didn't. And in fact, I didn't even believe him until I got home that night and looted it up and discovered that there had been clips of that night. And so I got an archival researcher who's a friend to start digging around, and he found some in the national archive and some and UCLA's archive and some in Grinberg archive and other places there were fragments that were in all these different places, but nobody had ever pulled it together you decided to develop the film, even before the two thousand seventeen Charlottesville rallied where somebody. Died when white supremacist drove into a crowd, right? When I saw the footage. It struck me as Trumpian and then Charlottesville happened. And suddenly, I realized that it wasn't even just a metaphor for Trumpism. There was an element of that world that was actually Nazi. And so I called Laura Poitras and Charlotte cook who run field of vision. And we finished the film and released it quickly. We could the national leader of the bun Fritz Kuhn began his speech at the event by slamming the press with anti semitic slurs. Tonight is a complete pain. You all her hurdle me. Those are two is gold. On. Flow. So we know Kuehne speech at the Bundy was a lot longer than the few minutes featured in your film. In fact, WNYC has all two hours of it. How did you choose which parts of the event to include? I was told that this is the shortest Oscar nominee in fifty years. I wanted to cut the event down to the bone and just show the essence of everything that happened for two reasons. One is I didn't feel like we need to give Fritz Kuhn along platform. And also I felt like if we could just get the essence of what was happening that night, a lot more people would share a seven minute film on Facebook and Twitter than would watch a thirty or forty minute film. I decided to edit it as if it were up verite documentary where there is no Narran. And instead the is just dropped into this world to puzzle it out, and there are a number of head fakes built into it. You know, the movie's called a night at the garden, so. You might think it's going to be about a basketball game the marquee outside describes the event as a pro America rally. So you might think that it's just going to be a typical patriotic event. The film begins with a rally that is full of American flags and cons of America. A huge portrait of George Washington that has swastikas hunt. Either side the crowd comes in. And they sing the star spangled banner, and they recite the pledge of allegiance. Indivisible with liberty and Justice. And you get inside. And you see those people doing the Nazi salute. I was just trying to get the pieces that would pull us into the story and provoke shock and also a sense of reflection about what those events tell us about today. It also shows us how the emblems of patriotism are so easily appropriated. I mean, even patriotism means freedom of speech, you can still use the emblems. And then excoriate the press there is one element that didn't make it into your film. That was particularly pointed to me, and that was the sense of victimhood. That was also appropriated by here. The German American. Trump. Why don't you go back to term any if you don't like the boy even things here? And who is we is the communists Jews? Great. Hopefully. Middle this. Visit us what happens. Up to American citizen of term expecting glued into. We have a right to run here. He basically goes on to say that German Americans are the most persecuted minority the laughter in the jeering that comes from his audiences was also familiar up setting in the background of one of the shots. I noticed a little boy who sort of jumps up and down and rubs his hands. Excitedly does a little jig as door Greenbaum being beaten up and thrown off stage. It was a warning about human nature. You know, if we're honest there is a part of us that is thrilled by being part of a mob. And we need to be aware of that. If we want to defuse that lob then Taliban that sometimes overtakes politics. We see the door. Greenbaum storm the stage. What's his story? He was a Jewish plumber's assistant from Brooklyn who went down to the rally that night to see what was going on. And was so outraged by what he saw on stage that he ran out to try to say something and was grabbed by the storm troopers over on stage, and they beat him up rip off his pants and throw him off stage. He was arrested that night for disturbing the peace and find twenty five dollars the next day in the New York Times reports they said that the magistrate who is sentencing him said to him don't you realize that someone could have been hurt by what you were doing on stage and green bums to him. Don't you realize that someone's gonna be hurt from what was being said on that stage? When you're doing your research, you're reading some of the coverage of the event at the time. Right. And it's so interesting to see how contemporary some of that coverage seems one big debate was whether. A group like the bunch should be allowed to have a rally in Madison Square Garden. There were many people who felt that they shouldn't though leading Jewish groups at the time and many others felt the difference between the United States and fascist Germany is that in the United States. Even idiots are allowed to say what they think. And of course, there are other people who said sure, let them say what they think, but don't give the Madison Square Garden that brings instantly to mind debates on college campuses and places like that where we're having this exact same argument. Eight years later, there's a history to the German American bund. It was a presence in various parts of the country specially Pennsylvania, New Jersey and New York. So what happened to the organization after the rally, well once German soldiers started killing American soldiers, America's tolerance for this kind of ideology disappeared very very quickly Fritz Kuhn, the speaker during the rally he was arrested for embezzling money and actually had. Citizenship stripped from him and was deported to Germany after World War Two where he died. You were talking about how the tolerance for these kinds of views waned after America joined the war. But let's talk about that tolerance you had people like Henry Ford and Lindbergh and the notorious father Coughlin inveighing against the Jews or standing in solidarity with Germany. We are Christian in Seoul on as we believe in Kreis friends up all over long-on neighbor as yourself I'm with prince, I challenge three two in this nation to tell me that he does not believe. This was not a majority point of view in America by any stretch. But it was considered a legitimate point of view. These are the kind of people who probably would have been booked on cable news to offer the other side to the Nazi question. If they had been around today, but it was an opinion held by many public leaders, including father Coughlin whose show was carried into the homes of thirty million Americans. And you think we've largely erased that part of our history. But of course, ideology didn't completely go away. And if you don't know that any Americans ever supported Nazi ideology, it's easy to assume that there's no threat today when you see this footage, and you see the spell that these kinds of people can cast the reason that we avoided falling into the trap is because of people's hard work pushing back on those ideas, press magnate, William Randolph Hearst declared whenever you. Here. A prominent American called a fascist. You can usually make up your mind that the man is simply loyal citizen who stands for Americanism. I think one of the reasons that the bund did not catch on even more is because of the German -ness of it. When you hear the leader Fritz Kuhn talking he has a German accent. There were a lot of German cultural trappings in the bud. And I think that probably kept many non-germans from embracing it. But that is part of what frightens me so much about the current super right wing part of America. They understand American culture. Very well, how to use memes and the internet and sarcasm there's a famous line that I'm paraphrasing is essentially when fascism comes to America, it won't have German accented it won't use swastikas. It will be called Americanism. Marshall. Thank you very much. Thank you so much for having me. Marshall carry is the director of the documentary short film night at the garden, which you can see at a night at the garden dot com. That's it for this week show on the media's produced by Alana Casanova Burgess, Michael Owen, jer laya Fedor, John Hanrahan and ostrich, Ed vetting. We had more help from Sandra Ellen and our show was edited by Brooke our executive producer is cut. You rogers. Our technical director is Jennifer Munson engineers this week. We're saying there and Josh on the media is a production of WNYC studios. I'm Brooklyn Bob Garfield. Support for on. The media comes from the Overbrook foundation and the listeners of WNYC radio.

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AP Headline News Mar 08 2019 15:00 (EST)

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03:28 min | 2 years ago

AP Headline News Mar 08 2019 15:00 (EST)

"Join us in book shops nest offers for Cheltenham twenty nine hundred every day of the cello festival. Where upper best odds guaranteed on your multiple deaths from nine AM right up until the purse brace one thirty not means if the price drips and the Evo at the bigger odds. Lateral your home the best value for the Cheltenham festival twenty nineteen. For eighteen TS and CS apply. Radio news. I'm Ed Donahue in Burr guard. Alabama President Trump visited a row of twenty three crosses one for each person. Kill by tornado last weekend. He and his wife Malania held hands as they observed a moment of silence in front of each of the markers. The president got a look at tornado damage today in Bizet a makeshift disaster relief center, set up at a local church before leaving for Alabama. The president express sympathy for his former campaign chairman Paul Manafort, he was sentenced to almost four years in prison charges. Not connected to the Trump Russia investigation, the AP's Eric Tucker reports on the possibility of a pardon. The president hasn't taken apart off the table of his lawyer Rudy Giuliani has said we're not going to be discussing that until after the Muller investigations over. But the president today indicate yet again that he feels sorry for Paul Manafort, President Trump talked about comments before congress by his former attorney Michael Cohen that he did not ask the press. For a pardon? Michael Kohn lied about the pardon. Stone called lie. And he's lied about a lot of things. But when he lied about the bar that was really ally cone is going to prison for lying to congress. The government says only twenty thousand jobs were added last month bankrate dot coms. Mark Hamrick says these numbers should not cause panic. I do think that we need exercise caution. When looking at this report, I think that there are probably some seasonal or weather says it of issues that may have creeped into meaning that we should not necessarily take all of it at face value Arshile government shutdown and severe weather could be factors resulting in such a low number a photo published in the Miami Herald shows the founder and one time owner of a spa implicated in a human trafficking ring, attended President Trump Super Bowl party in his West Palm Beach country club nineteen days later, the president's longtime friend in New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft was charged with soliciting prostitution at the spa. This is AP radio news. It could be an encourage. Sign for people trying not to get sick. This winter peak of the flu season has passed. Probably forecasters from the centers for disease control and prevention say the flu is widespread in forty eight states down one from last week. Good sign the end is near but they're also watching wave of illnesses from a nastier strain of flu one more apt to cause hospitalizations and deaths especially among the elderly for the last two weeks that bug has been seen more than the milder one that prevailed. Most of the winter still they say there's a ninety percent chance. The flu season has already passed its peak. Warren Levinson, New York, California family is devastated. Their relative was told he didn't have long to live by Dr appearing on a robot video screen, a San Francisco TV station reported seventy nine year old Ernest Catanha went to Kaiser Permanente medical center emergency department. A robot arrived in the room and the doctor appeared on video screen. The company says it was highly unusual. Ed Donahue, AP radio news.

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