2 Episode results for "Michael Alexis"
#1917 Recession Proof: How to snap back from sudden financial loss
"Freedom fighters my name is Andrew Warner. I I'm not GonNa do the whole I gotTa tell you. This is exactly what I was looking for when I put out a call on twitter saying. Is there anyone who's doing better now? We're doing well now post the CO Corona crisis Despite what's going on and the reason that I say that today's guests Michael lexuses perfectly exactly what I was looking for is because he is the inspiration that I think that we need just before this whole thing hit the guy. Bought Museum Hack a company that he was very closely affiliated with. And we'll understand what How within the scenario the whole idea behind museum hackers? It they take you take your loved ones. They take your co workers. They take you and other people into museums now number one you can get into museums right now number two. You can't get next to your loved ones. You can't get next to strangers. You can't get next to your co-workers. How does a guy who suddenly running his business deal with the situation? And as I'm saying this you guys can't see it. He's got a smile on his face because he's recognizing it but he also has a smile on his face because I feel like this whole situation has taken a deeper emotional toll on most of us than we realize. Despite that he found a way to turn things around anyone online he created us. I guess a spin off business second business. It's called team building dot com where they provide team building activities. That your people will love but it's done online and what we've found now is that there are a couple of things that Michael. I think. I'm understanding this. Business is two things number one. There are a lot of people like the the good people at my kid's schools who don't know how to do any remote anything right and now suddenly they have to figure out zoom and remote interaction and all that right so they come to team building DOT COM and they sign up for a program where they could. They could learn how to do remote work better and number two. There are people who are feeling disconnected from the people. They're working with even though they're on slack zoom with them and so those are some of the problems that team building dot com. It's all being and because he solving it instead of crashing into a wall and feeling defeated in blaming her own and really rightly rightfully so saying this crap happened. He's making things happen in keeping people in his company going anyway. Michael Lexin I have known each other for years. There's fair fair to say that they would not be revenue at Mixer. G Not real revenue mixture. Gee if not for him and I really appreciate him forgetting me going when I was starting. I'm hitting him for being here. I appreciate him for being here. Even though he has stuck on an island will talk about that. We'll do it all thanks to two phenomenal sponsors to I. If you WANNA get a sense of how your customers feel about Your Business and then understand why. They're feeling that way. You gotTA check out the lighted dot com slash mixer. And the second. If you're building your business. This is the time nearly to take care of your business. You're thinking about. How do I garden in the backyard and raise potatoes razor business to and I'll tell you why click onnell's is the tool to use to help you grow? Your Business. I Michael Good to see you. It's my pleasure to be here. I've been humbled by Indra. This was their minute when you freaked out because I see you smiling. Was there minute when you I freaked out. I wouldn't call it a head. I assume you're talking about what happened with but that's not the environment. Yeah was there period any anything that made you feel like. Oh Holy Crap. What's going on? Yeah we had a couple of interesting early warning systems are side one is said I have actively done business in China in the past and still have a lot of friends and relationships there We do this now and their businesses have effectively for at least three months and it's a little bit longer so we saw that coming then. I think I had a little bit more time to adjust to what might happen in the US. The second was that for us. Our clients were very quick to react. So companies like Google companies like facebook do our corporate team building events with our quitting internal travel Bam Early on and part of Bat was you know not going from office part of it. That's not holding group of that. So within a period of the three days all of our new business stuff coming in and almost all of the work has the next couple of months capital. I don't think that that in itself is unique story. I believe how to a lot of people I know. My my my. My there wasn't a freaked out moment but there was this very sober realization that we needed to make substantial changes quickly One of the things that we're gonNA talk about about all starts into now. Is We bid by museum? Hack last year We be my partner taste and I and part of a life part of that was but it was a seller finance transaction so there's significant amount of money from revenue and profit. It's still goes to work that perch it wasn't just an option for us to say okay. Well the market slow were GONNA do kind of a temporary hibernation mode be had to figure out how to fix the business which I think meant. There wasn't time so say like auto. What's going to happen to us? That would be maybe by ideal story to tell reality. There was one moment one moment that I've up to share so Here in the Canary Islands. Right now trying to repay super beautiful BIOS. We're actually care for a little bit but a day or two after all the way. She's happened when I climb this beautiful mountain just along the coast and Pay With decided that we weren't going to hike up a trail which ability twenty minutes We were going to stay on the mountain and we're talking about A slow climb or or crawl up at notch. Those three quarters of the way up I was exhausted. I was sweaty. I coul- I felt like I was gonNA fall off the side of the mountains and also started to have these Roommate ideas of what the company and it wasn't Hamid but it was. Oh if we can't fix it. The last five years of non stop work and Hustle after and investment that I've put into trying to build and grow our business and build and grow You know our our legacy and what I can do with my life might be wiped out so coming off that mountain there was wasn't that emotional like long in a lot but we felt empowered. We thought actually answer to do something about it. How do you snap back to being action oriented? I think two things happened one. I definitely is very optimistic. to Mexican go for three so one very optimistic to I've had financial lafi path and it's not that bad so my my cost of living is very very low. I enter you know. I looked at a ball back. Taxes is only shirt. I have one pair of short but I have a couple of other small thing but life is simple and my cost of living is very very very much so well. It's nice savings to have money in the bank. Losing some portion of it one time right I recovered. I'm actually on the more exciting things with the business that we're doing now so Very hopeful for the future and that way and then the third one was we started to seep through our marketing system this opportunity for virtual team building Barry early on And realize that well. Hey we're gonNA take very march. Hit taught revenue on a profit for if one month in the month of March. If we can make this work it may actually be bigger and may lead to a lot more work for us and for people and a lot more opportunity for what they've become a big one. I'm GONNA come back and ask you about the virtual options that you saw but what you mentioned about having financial trouble in the past is something that I noticed. Several other people who I interviewed who snap back from feeling bad for themselves have also had in the past like I think about Russell Brunson. He was in a bad economy about ten years ago. the founder of Gum Road Sawhill Lavinia. He just went to his own personal thing where he couldn't get his company to get back on track and so the investors turn their backs on him and when he recovered from that he got a sense of I could deal with other financial loss. Never as bad as I think it is I wonder for you. What was it that you go back to and remember? That was terrible. I survived it. Even if this is terrible things will be okay. Yeah let me tell you what I did. Investment Wipe So. I had long as I can remember being extremely frugal throughout school and even afterward I would say ninety percent or more of my income I would find little side Hustle Star and a little bit more to had what was eventually becoming a large emergency fund or something. We've actually had this money other than it was just like comforting to have more of it. I made a five years ago decision but I was GONNA take my entire life faded as the properties that I had all the money in the bank. I took out a loan. Them live a credit to get more access to Cashing Apple and somebody to tie the together business there and within the first few weeks I started to see money coming back about super cool so I said more about the restaurant business so I hope that you can try those restaurants so the best right now around Don pops money you saw some profit comeback you send even more than what happened And maybe maybe interesting to share number so as for me my life saving time with one hundred seventy thousand dollars. So this is the money in total that China and then it's slowed down not because business wasn't doing well but because I hadn't completely understood the agreement that I've gotten into with how cash flow is GonNa work. How capital is going to be retained in the business for later what was going to happen with. the landlord contracts in these malls powder at the restaurants were going into. It was due diligence that I should have done and understood better to understand what was going to to cash flow and so for back weight loss actually hadn't happened and frankly still hasn't happened. It's still kind of unknown. We'll go on but being there. I felt like I lost everything. I felt like my last Several years of just eighty never stay in go into restaurants and better like small ways. We find the money the housing decisions that I've made to say a few more dollars. I felt like they had been wiped out one decision to send money. It's it's kind of interesting how it's continued though the Going from having financial officer and being very slow to do whatever I wanted and North America meant that I went and tried to do freelance. My clean worth again I join. Ccm Hack as you know. A few years later ended up buying the company and buying the company just now so I kind of have when I think about healthy by an objective one. That would just say we'll see things are going. Well we'll see. Maybe maybe it's GonNa try to get if they're not going well we'll see maybe it will even investment in China like right now is when it really is still in a lot because so interesting kind of nuance but what's happening with the Chinese government. There's less financial or in what's happening in America I think that the US government has actually been very quick to act at least with the financial APP Man The recovery Federa not so the case in China landlords anybody's rights so the businesses are Bernie money very quickly. Okay and so. The reason that I had didn't even think of that but there are from what I understand coming back online faster right. They're getting closer to getting back online wasted three months but it's three months. I think they're still Auckland. Talks with time back in them. I my understanding. The report from Franson different partners is bad. They haven't seen that big debts. Not like people have gone from staying at home to flooding the restaurants in the model right right. Even if they're opening doors doesn't mean that people are going in right okay and so one of the things that I noticed in you in that period was you did. Pare your wardrobe down to as you described right now very very little. I think when we met here in San Francisco you had it all in your backpack and you turned me onto wool not being a smelly Material which I had no idea when I research I said is it possibly doesn't smell himself. Turns out you're right. I actually for my marathon in Chile and then the one in Antarctica. I did wear a wool. Like running shirt. It's the best running shirt I ever had in my life. Cost One hundred twenty bucks maybe Hundred seventy totally. Worth every intimate. But I have to say running. Those two marathons shirt did smell it. So let's say there's a limit on willow but it's a pretty high limit so I had the sense that you pair yourself down and you found that you didn't need as much as you thought you did or that you could be happy with less. Is that right kind of actually happened over the years just moving from place to place. I grew up in a small town near Toronto. I went to Vancouver for school. I moved to China Saddad. I moved to Austin afterward every time I moved. I got rid of furniture. I got rid of being. I got rid of the point where I just thought. I don't WanNa get me things. I WANNA get like one. Small bag of things Extend of all basically okay so then you also said there was a virtual customer reversal. That seemed like a glimmer of hope that you could then build on. How did that come about you? Guys do museum hack which is take people's museums and give them these radical experiences. Who came ask you for virtual experience from you can have a number of things the most Cup well-known invisible on site of public museum source. So Andrew. You in your apartment could go. We don't work at any adult over the age eighteen. You could go with friends won't be Whatever happens to the intake of anywhere between fifty dollars ninety nine dollars and a large part of the business is actually corporate. Teambuilding client flagpole. Mg like Johnson and many many others will have a group of their employees. May people many fifty fifty people go? Do and I said the idea that it's going to be a family. It's going to be relaxing. It's going to be a way to create bond between them so as part of that. The marketing system upset up. I'm fairly obsessed with Google search console and what's happening with traps volume. We'VE LYING TED. For EXAMPLE CERTAIN PARTS OF THE YEAR. You know why did why did we stop? While we can dig into local search for we can begin to other data platform to figure out what happened. Nobody nobody can do team. Christmas probably worth of July thing watching that. We saw this kind of rapid decline people searching for a team building in New York. City Chicago Corporate events in the bay area and similar searches. We ranked wildfire and. I wondered well. If those pictures are going down is anything going not from Google Search tonsil TRIM STUGGLE DOT com. And this is something I would recommend everybody Look as if your business is challenge right now and if you're trying to find a way to Medina search keywords related here and then three and see what Google bad. I noticed that when I put him where it's like team building New York City or even just the generic team building while those searches were considerably down from where they should be at this time of Year Baseball Team. Both in was three thousand percent. And it's probably more than that since then as more and more companies of Jerem. Oh so you know. The team building is one of the reasons why people come and look for you and then ended up signing up for a a museum experience you just typed in team building and you said what is going up. Let me try that right now. So I would go into to Google trends and type in team building. And that's what you did and if I do that what I see is kind of a slightly downtrend but I see the trend. Oh okay got it. Related Topics telecommuting breakout acts. Throwing for some reason that's up the virtual team topic three hundred percent Bingo for some reason. Three hundred percent wise axe again coming up two hundred fifty percent got it and then team building activities. Bay Area that Scott. It related searches. This is the type of thing that you're looking on virtual team building activities and so you started to based. Oh my God dude I just typed it. I just tapped the virtual team building activities. It's like hockey stick up. Okay so our console where you vote for the last two years. We've had to three thousand people per day. Click to us from Google and we thought that was good that kind of the to sell the carpet topic. I've got museum helping work of Art of what we did Now we're talking about like twenty thousand a day. So the trend purdis skyrocketing. Fortunately so are we in what we're seeing them sedan. Sorry let me ask you. What is Google search console? Console is a tool that will tell you the kind of high level about how people are finding your site on Google. So you can see an organized by a different pages posts on your site. You can see the search terms that they use to get there. You can see the position that Google place view for each of them for example if somebody starts with the Word Museum of course we come up number one right every single time. Somebody searches museum tours. I were page one as well. But we might be like positioned so google search has all of that data. I in a way that is a pretty clear easy to understand okay and so you starting to notice based on those tools that virtual team building activities is going up. What did you I do about that? How did you understand what they were looking for? How part of it I'd credit to an intuition comes from working in them. The St Five Years Right. We had an idea that if people had searched for team building in the past and search virtual team building is essentially the person they still want to get their people together to be some kind of event department and budgets advocates or so The intuition or the assumption was that they wanted a similar kind of experience. I Guess Twenty fifty people together in one place to do some kind of activity together. That would be fun. The actions than that came from that were a number one We started to rework all of our marketing channels marketing. And and where we're putting our time Very simple sample bad is the we cut off. I spend him on Yelp because Yeltsin certainly for local businesses doesn't pass we. We are adspend instead to go. Forward or search is raid the virtual team though remote seen building online government Federa We already had team building dot com hadn't used the site much. We were still working. Museum hacking another Smaller brand plates be has and I'd set up seen dot com with idea that we could start a building links to it and we might be able to like rise the ranks with all this little searches so that when we were ready to launch activities when we were ready to launch that France excessively would already be in a good so We went to calm. Put a virtual page that same day no matter a couple of hours and simultaneously or within that same day launch At least for products that would be very good at for the audience so for example we have one called online office game. I originally called online Olympic. Unfortunately Olympic is very very trick by turns out but it captures the event right if the theories small gains challenge to trivia mouth. It's like this really cool on Interactive Trivia. It wouldn't be name that tune it would be okay. Everybody has like fifteen seconds to go. Grab THEIR FAVORITE. Mug and then some stories to tell about the my point Another prompt for it might be. Hey you know like Andrew. How do you say I love you without using your voice and somebody might go? I know American sign language. I could do that. I get from my team. So Fun Trivia that. Let's move your body There's some other games in there that are about communication though. It's kind of a balanced the technology that there's kind of skills that people need to work with up to mine about one out of the and this was based on the experience you had with museum hack understanding what kind of games kind of experiences bring people together. Yeah with the very broad categories of being like another one that we launched at the same time. It's called tiny campfire. I it is It sounds pretty adorable. What we do is we send aid to all the attention before the event by BS with one hundred percent guarantee kind of semi virtual experience where Andrew a week before the event received Have all the ingredients to make smart as you? I can't fire. And then for the event itself we play other series of games but then the main portion of it. I isn't that half an hour. Where our former museums tour guides are now telling stories has fargo stories? So there's one example about A strong theory. That Abraham Lincoln Ghost hunting somebody. Who's driving and this is the kind of story. We thought around firewall. Everybody making more. So you tell the story and these you gotta see to actually really fully get it wants to go check it out. It's a team building dot com. It's like a little toothpick with a tiny marshmallow over a little tiny fire. That you send out to them. It's a it's a T. light and then they've got Graham cracker and chocolate equally small and they're just heating up there. Marshmallow ended listening to the story. While they're heating up the marshmallow. I imagine making there. There's more than holding it up for the camera now. They've got a shared experience even though they're not in the same room virtual kept fire. All right let me take a moment to talk about my first sponsor. It's a company called delighted. And then I want to come back and you a little bit. More about which one of these programs worked and And then what you did from there. So here's the thing about the lighted. They recognized that right now. Things are getting difficult and so if you have customers who are happy you WANNA understand why they're happy and bring that happiness that experience to other people who are happy and then if you have customers who are not happy. This is not a period where people are going to say. You know what who cares? Let's just keep it on the bill for months and months and months right everyone scrutinizing their bill very carefully and so what delighted said was Andrew. Were taking a shot on a mixture g add. Were just going to give your people this software for free. All they have to do is go to delighted dot com slash three to get it for free and what it'll do. Is it. Allow them task. Their audience asked their customers. Are you delighted with the experience and you can do the NPS test? Which is a net promoter. Score can't get a test. It's not a test. It's it's the feedback experience with a on a scale one to ten. Say How likely they are to share your site with With their friends and we know that that is a good insight into how well your business is doing. Here's the problem though. Michael and you might see this. You could put this form up using any software right type form when we have. I forget gravity forms. Whatever it is I said to them. Why would anyone use you right now if you could use these other? They said you ever use those forms. I said yes. So what'd you do? I said I felt overwhelmed. They said exactly. You don't know what's drawing what they said. We take a look using the data we in from your site and understand for example for your experience. Maybe it's the campfire experience that is actually a lower. Nps score nobody typed in. I didn't like the Campfire experience. Maybe it's people from Chicago are giving everything a low score you would know it because looking at the data and you're just seeing raw numbers we can look at it we can understand. Can I throw in the term machine learning here probably I? We don't get everything but in this case it's actually right that they are using intelligence software to understand to draw conclusions of people. Couldn't otherwise and tell you this time of day. This is what what's leading to happiness. Or maybe it's this city that's that's causing unhappiness or maybe it's this product or maybe it's shipping option. That is leading people to say that they're unhappy. They will draw those conclusions. Or listen if you want to get started go to delight dot com slash mixer. Let you try it for free. They are asking for a credit card. I said why ask for credit card. If it's free they said because we also do follow up e mail because we make sure that that you message people properly if they don't give you a high rating so you understand what to do with it and you do follow up with improperly for example maybe tournament testimonials if they did give you high rating all that stuff is automated is people can use it for spam. Were trying to keep this professional. We have a system that asks for credit cards anyway but trust US Andrew. We say it's free. It will be free and if you're listening to me and you want it for free. Go TO DELIGHTED DOT COM slash Delighted DOT COM slash. Victory is probably delighted by nose runny. Nose here it's not covert. I don't think it's cold but it's just me at naturally being Actually I always have a runny nose. But I can't hit the mute button. I mean like this weird situation Michael Ware. Nothing is exactly where I like it to be. The the whole equipment is off. I'm dealing with everyone in my house. Twenty four hours a day. We're all trying to get things done with everyone of us like in our faces. It's really really challenging Anyway so in this situation. Usually I have my whole news button if I have to do that without getting it on Mike. I hate them you button and I don't even have new button. This is this is a destroyer block going on I. I can help out of quote. Forgive you in pretty. Hey the two of us here we gotta talk a more. I don't think what delighted pay for when they said let's find out from you but they're always going to get real Andrew here. It is Delighted D. E. L. I. G. H. T. E. D. dot com slash mixer. G DELIGHTED DOT COM slash M. I. X. Y. Mixed Reggie goes to go try them for free by the way I keep wondering what the lighted paid for their domain. I WanNa ask you the same thing. You must pay a lot of money for team building dot Com. That's a functional domain. That super clear be happy to share more about that story so I joined museum hack high about five years ago. Two Thousand Fifteen Part Time. Freelance Mark Tap. I didn't know what was GONNA come a bit but Continued continued on me about that business. New This Corporate and team button with a bang also knew that we had I reached out to the owner team-building dot com in two thousand fifteen or two thousand sixteen. When we first started that this mess and at the time we couldn't afford it we didn't know how to negotiate. We didn't happen so Last year I sent her inaugural. It's a really Nice lady based in Illinois I believe and I was a little bit coy with how I reached out at Center for my g mail address. Not The museum might that? Hey you know. We're in the team building industry. Would you ever consider? I mean we're interested. I'd be happy to make you an offer and she said making an offer I Lo- Baltar afterwards and thousand dollars. I know that sounds like a lot of money to some people. It is a lot of money. It's a lot of money to me too. I'm but I knew from kind of evaluation price scene of strong keyword after the drop in the bucket I. It was very very hopeful On my heart that she might be wants to do it. Said No Much much Savvier as I tried to give her credit for and eventually counted. She said that she wanted to be within a certain range. That number was if niece excited. I. I didn't want mobile or second time. I thought that would be impulsive and I thought it would jeopardize the deal that we offered her one hundred twenty five thousand dollars Initially I'm I'm kind of a payment plan. That's what we might be able to pay for it over three or four years something like that And ultimately justified to cash feel under the transfers since because so perspective A Better Southerner. Eight years ago whenever I I registered Michael Alexis Dot Com. Maybe it was a little bit longer than that. I stressed over the seven ninety five but I paid the dream ninety five. I was one hundred percent sure that I would say about my collection. My love their my blog by go informatics and be willing to pay one hundred and twenty five grand cash upfront for domain is shift in mindset for me and how. I think about Domains HYPHEN ABOUT MARK. Clean about Doesn't scope investment etc? What did she do with her business? This is Karen Clarke Frederick. She she ran a team training leadership training business to did she. Close it up once you sold it to you so I think that I can tell you a little bit more about the stars so even with the cash offer. She wants them a hundred percent sure that she wanted to sell it and she mostly wants to know that it was going into good hand. Pushy shared a personal story. Where she that? Hey I added twenty years. She's the only person before I ever with obeyed. Seem DOT COM. She had massive difference in it. She was a pioneer in the industry. And a lot of really interesting things. A lot of Companies Son and was successful with it. I didn't ask about all the details. I got the perspective best. She's kind of nearing retirement. Or maybe hasn't been on a transition phase out and what in in a way to pass on that legacy not necessarily true actor business it could be sold. But at least kind of the brand name that she had helped and grown and builds up over the years It was a really touching from her and why it initially sent out. That coy like hi. We do this thing which accepts a little bit of money for it. I wrote a really personal back I was worried with doing so. I thought Hey I'm gonNA throw away all of my negotiation power hour like like we just this company. We don't have enough money. I WANNA give you medicine. Can you know this is how I grew up? This is what we're working on what we're trying to build. I was worried that she might see the go like. Oh this guy would pay like five hundred thousand dollars last name which I don. I didn't have we don't have limbs have been able to pay for it Instead she really good way she said you know. Thank you so much for sharing this like I feel a lot more comfortable in who you are knowing what you're gonNA do with it. Let's make it happen and a week later. His grace great domain worth the price. I thought the very first thing that you put up on on it was what was the how to work remotely program right. Maybe that's the first one that I happen to see as I was hunting through the site. It's the first one we put on the front page just because I was trying to get anything about virtual remote work on the front page and then create a virtual team building page. I wanted to make sure that At least with With our virtual team doesn't page wouldn't be competing at the homepage of the content when them school I'm less worried about that now. But that's why I don't work molding all right and so I see now on the site online office games tiny campfire verse coffee. You send people to tea and the the picture that they sent him to Kinda unique peas. Maybe a Turmeric Team. Maybe a avocado leaky as well as copies. Mushroom off the Some I don't remember the name copies talking together on a zoom call. And you do you give them a piece of paper that I see on the on the web page right now on team building dot com so that they could actually put it down like a flight the way that they would bar a paper that goes with it. So Art of savvy about these very. It was a little bit of smoking mirrors so that picture is from a trip that I had tasty that I did have some unique coffee last year and we had representing the fanatics. Because everything on your side is so frigging polished but on that one. I see there's like spilled tea on Obamacare so if you look carefully actually zoom in a little bit ideas online storytelling and how to work remotely. Which one of those did did the best? The two that are the most successful right now are online office in some tiny campfire Online office game so I think partly just because the first one on the list people and we end up having that conversation tiny campfires can be capturing the heart of the by today should the world very charming about by right. I like this thing thousand thing. For my child we went to family or with Fantasy sat around the campfire new sheriff stories from Just very strong metaphor for what people need right now An interesting shift in additional suggest going virtual for team building is the reasons why people are doing it and the benefits that they need to get from so When a company takes people to the museum or one about other bands though the Guacamole nation competition. It's like hey this is the Great Baucau I. It's like hey this is gonna be on thing. We're going to get people together. We're going to get some fun pictures with the team. Hopefully they'll tell the credit for that as well. They know what a cool company we are. A lot of reasons most with global shifts remote work so many people are working from home for the first time. And if they haven't yet they're going to stop it but it can be really really might if you're not intentional talking to other people in other people if you don't get to go to the office from say hi in the morning and have lunch with colleagues than something missing so I can't fire online office. Game are not just the way for people to have time together. It's the way they counter that kind of psychological toll of what it takes to work from home and reliable amble time. What about this? Don't I'm on zoom all day I? My wife is on zoom even more so we've got kid obligations the kids. Now have zoomed through for school. We're talking about a five year old and a three year old three year old can put up with the five old has to suffer through it. Isn't it a lot to ask team to get back on zoom and do another meeting except this one is not directly productive when they've got so much else going on in their lives? Nba Right every company. Every team out there every event has things going on. We heard some really nice feedback about the event. There was a couple of days ago where I ended at one of the guests afterwards. Like thank you so much that made me for just a few minutes. Forget everything that was going on in the world. So it's not another meeting about their business finances or what they're GONNA do next with marketing or how they're going like restructured a team or how long. Kobe it's GonNa last. It's let's get together and may be people time and do something cool all right. I get that the reason that I think that that I could relate to it was I. I saw a friend do a double date on zoom. This was Brian Harris. I saw Brian. That seems kind of lame. I wanted to spend time with my wife on the couch at the end of the day and then I thought about and I said I'm going to surprise you. I'm GONNA set up something for us for Saturday night and I invited not just one couple by the two couples. They loved it. We were done. I said we're just GONNA have wine with you guys and give you space to go like live. Your lives couples. I didn't realize it. They stayed on till midnight. The other two couples talking it was that great and we followed up the following week and it is nice to just have a conversation with people where you don't have to care that much where you don't have to be on and they're just kind of there while you're doing something else aren't I get that. And then the advantage then of having you lead it is. It's not this accord. Everyone staring at each other trying to figure out what to say. There's a professional who knows how to lead things and keep things interesting working. There are focus or so damn good staff that are running them. Now are the same people who run the museum tours that we have tens of thousands of guests year for That run the guacamole making competition to do other stuff that we've done at other parts of the year many of them are they're not full-time tour. Guide FAIR PROFESSIONAL STAND UP. Comedian that the country their performance musicians the people and they just connect with audiences. So wow and read. Little little cues and engage people so part of that part of it is that they're great at it another part. Is it somebody different right? It's not the HR manager. The events planner that the separate meeting. It's hey we brought in somebody else and I just feel like it feels yeah. Pf feels like especial fan. Feels like you're doing something. Different people could go to the museum without people could certainly rather guacamole competition at Christmas. Gingerbread words gingerbread house making competition a lot of fun they do stuff like Dombi apocalypse Gingerbread houses or dinosaur attack or something like that. They're very very cool. You could run those without us but it feels good to bring in an outside company and also for the event organizer of pavement at two and interactive peers. Instead of the person doing. So you don't have to as the boss lead. You can just be a part of the of the fun with them. I want them to know about why you're the Canary Islands. Still is it safe there And then how businesses doing like if you're willing to share some dollars and cents. I'd love to know that and then also you talked a little bit about the. Some people are freaking out before we started. You said some people freaking out and there's emotional stuff going on and I think the tactics might help them get past it. WanNa come back and ask you about that too. We I tell people that my second sponsored you know do you know. Click funnels the second sponsor you do. Click funnels did is. They said your site kind of stinks. Because it's a brochure. What you need is a funnel. Which is people come in? And they have the first step in the second step in the third step and let's be honest. We need steps that will let people who we are because they're not going to buy necessarily right away and steps that lead to a sale and the fact that they were always focused on. How do we tell people who we are and get to sail meant that? They started building software to make that really easy and Michael. A lot of people signed up for Click funnels in the past and then just held onto the account do much orthogonal signing up and then what the founder Russell Brunson told me was in March as people were forced to stay home as sadly many people were laid off as suddenly people had time on their hands and anxiety. A large number of them started going to click funnels actually setting up their funnels or setting up an account for the first time playing with it seeing what they could do and actually got themselves up in business. I interviewed him about his business with doing well. And that's the big takeaway that I got the. I'm feeling crushed by having people around me so much but at the same time not getting the freedom to go out and see people in person wishes. It's painful for me. We're all feeling some of this but there are some people who are saying despite this. I'm going to get up and do something creative. I'm going to let myself have this artistic experience this entrepreneurial experience and see where it goes and see where it leads. And frankly me doing. These interviews is part of me saying. I'm not just going to sit back and deal with my frustration. How can I channel? This is something useful and frankly for me. It's useful to hear people do well. I come back after an interview feeling refreshed feeling like others possibility. What else could I be do? What else should I be adjusting and I get more productive? So if you're out there listening to me and you haven't taken that first step to feeling and to taking active feeling better taking action is going to get you there and I think the best way to get started right now is to go to click funnels dot com slash mixture G. When you do they're gonNa let you use their software for free for two weeks. Here's what you're GONNA do great landing pages and say okay. This actually looks good now. I urge you to stop their play around with their other tools. Even if you just get rid of that landing page get rid of this funnel. I urge you to play with the tool. That lets you slide over and collect a credit card and experiment with what you would charge for and then experiment with what the next step is. Michael Alexis helped me with years. Ago was our mutual friend. Noah Kagan said Andrew. We're trying to create something. Sal I said yeah it goes well. What's the big complaint? He said. Well a lot of people in my interviews. But they don't know what to do at the end of it. He goes okay great. Why don't you just create something that helps them? They take action afterwards. That's I don't know what you create what the easiest thing you can do it. I said I don't know he and I somehow I think came up with the idea of take transcript and turn it into an action guide as said okay. I think I could do it. Except I was a pretty crappy writer. Michael Alexa said. I think I can help you. And he made it sound really good and actually feel like an action guide. Anyway at first little thing that we put up a landing page for ended up selling and then I got some feedback and improved. Got More feedback and adjusted by improved. I mean I understood what people are really looking for and what we could create an ongoing basis and that we had a business all because that little experiment I urge you to go out and do a little experiment of your own by going to click funnels dot com slash. Mix it up as I said it clicked on. I'm like a covert nightmare. It's a good thing that nobody's around me. I get so worked up. I click funnels dot com slash mixer. G Don't worry I do have like a thing that I put up on my face. WanNa see the thing that I put up on my face until I get the OH great. Hang on a second wait. I'm going to show I tell you nobody. Nobody ever sees this. Because I'm not I'm not around people Hang on a second versus Dorky. Little Kid who always wanted to have an Ascott you know what an Ascott is. It's like a handkerchief thing that you tuck into your into your shirt pieces. See men with Ascot's they're so dignified. They look so distinguished. I would like one of those but I couldn't. I couldn't bring myself to do it. This is a buff. If you're going Antarctica before you get on the plane somebody will inspect your stuff to make sure that you could survive there. And so they gave me a list of things to buy an whatever I was missing. They made me go and buy from local store and Chile before I got on my five and a half hour flight Antarctica Thankfully one of the things that I got was this buff. You know it goes around your neck. Justice like circular thing goes around your neck. But it's long enough that you can put over your mouth and so you can keep your mouth. Warm could put it over. Your ears like earmarks. You could put it over your anyway. I wear around my neck like in case I need to wear a mask but really what I want is the feeling of an Ascott and I think this looks good. Right and cool. Yeah and now look if it will no. I didn't think I can. I get it in. Well almost definitely now look if. I put it over my my nose. Doesn't this looks pretty cool right like a bad bet. Yeah it's like abandoned exactly now. It's not the most protective thing. We did have a bunch of masks. Libya Got a mask for the fire and then she. I think gave him out She's too much of a do gooder so. I don't think we have NASA but other people who have so until I get a real massacre console. Something this is. This is my thing I look. I look good in the meantime you help. Protect THE COMMUNITY. Right from my overenthusiastic spitting self. No one's in here. Don't worry I'm not getting it on all right. Let's get into let's get into you being in the Canary Island. I thought Canary Islands. Where is it Canary Islands or Canary Island Island? There are several several. I thought they were off of of UK. A little bit south of there but no off of England not south of England. It's east of Morocco right now west of Morocco. Excuse me in the record eye. That's more than I knew. I two months ago we We did a cruise with our team that was starting to talk a bit about. What's going on the messaging income crews? Hey don't worry about it. Anybody to spend China is not allowed on the boat. I was like barely outside of the window. Open able to come back from China but we did that and at the end I thought. Hey we WANNA those somewhere. We're looking for somewhere new. We want somewhere with a good Internet connection that I'm going to be able to work. But otherwise not a lot of criteria. We didn't want to go directly back to Asia. We use the fate of no bad list or something best parameters on the Canary Islands. I had no idea where it was. Looked it up. Hey it's all the north west coast Africa and It's a bad place super temperate. Climate barely rains most of the people that come here to be deaf from the UK. Or an so I if they'll be a quiet relaxing place that I've kind of fallen. I really liked beautiful barbara incident. Pretty good that took up a while to figure out where we fade out Another current we called in a technician had affects. 'cause we have longer term rental. Now I kinda unique about being here though. Is that Roy Markdown. Not necessarily because there was a major threat here because the connections I mean that Spain the Canary Islands are controlled by and when they went on lockdown We're not allowed to go outside. There's like very few flights up here and also personally I don't think good to travel a second part. It's Kinda fascinating this that with With trump's travel ban on Europe which I very mixed ambiguous information about. I think it explains me probably back to the US. Even though we have an accurate business area either bill. I paid taxes in your country. I'm Canadian If you've got a friend but it's it's citizenship base. Not Used generally likes spending a lot of time at our country as so. I'm pretty sure I can come back. Ufc I walk through this my vc league wastefully the Canary Island. Who's got a couple of We've got a long term rental on AIRBNB got got Internet. We're fighting to save and grow the distance from here. And when you're there are you saying you're in lockdown you don't even get to go and experience it can go to the beach. Can you go out and see the sun now when we first started here we could? We're fortunate with fire. Place now coke. Generally I mentioned being frugal when we travel. We try to get places that are like a reasonable right. If it's like forty fifty sixty dollars tonight. Something like a high end hotel. That's okay with me and Kinda built being able to Kind of live and work remotely and make sure that we're avenue comfort with Kobe. Nobody's traveling now in a place that relies on tourism airbnb have become very very active so We're now stayed in a semi luxury gated community with extensive patio at a beautiful view of the ocean. So while we are locked it I think we can go on parks. How are you dealing with not being able to go out for Walks Andrew? I don't get out much. We kind of they hope at work anyways fell down the main believe different traffic as been used to go to the grocery store three times a week. Something like this the grocery store with excuse to do of course walk around and they'll get spend time away from the computer now. We go once a week. 'cause we're allowed to and we ended up bringing it back so much time outside but not stanchly different in the life that. I've been living for the last years and it's we who else is with you in there at me and my partner Patia okay. How long have you two been together? I two and a half years I and so Life partners all the partners. And so you're saying they you were they going to the emotional stuff. I wonder. I hope I'm not like spilling all my emotional challenges here and not Communicating that despite all I. I think I'm fairly happy even on challenged I think I'm fairly productive even though I'm not as productive as I was when I could go into the office whenever I wanted I'm just trying to be as open as possible because I think that most people aren't open enough about it. I look at my twitter stream and it's everybody having like the greatest work from home experience ever instead of acknowledging that things aren't great and so I wanna I wanNA give people permission by being like one of the first people to talk about it. I I just hope I'm not talking about it so much. That are making people feel like they need to come in. Like saved me from this Person I get to. I get to go off a run. San Francisco still allows it. I'M GONNA do my bike with that. We've got a nice backyard. I'll do a bike with a trainer in the backyard. If I can't go out for runs and that'll that'll help me But what is the emotional stuff that you're seeing that entrepreneurs are going through and then what's the what are the tactics that you've seen the helps them. I've noticed that people are happening kind of short term. We actually what's going on so for example dealing with the stress of. Hey do I need to laugh my staff my part time full time? How long should I do it for working? Through all of the documents of the financial The Lung Patch eligible. I it seems like people are trying to find ways to make the business work but in many cases aren't able to do so. Yeah so tactic wise. I shared TEN FUNCHAL DOT com. Like everybody get on there right away. a couple of things. I think are really important really helpful right now. One get crystal clear with your Masjun This is something I believe in general. I think clarity over clever in almost all cases is gonNA WORK BETTER FOR SMALL BUSINESSES. That are trying to sell a product urban anything there so that. I mean not an email like this poetic of art but Hey we saw X. Two this people because the benefit of et Cetera Not There's people that do fancy cooperated out there. It's incredible I'm not one of them but right now be buried very crystal clear messaging second thing that I'd recommend With email to fetter is I would consider the first rule of Colbert. Nineteen with marketing. Be Don't talk about covert nineteen or so saturated with mass dream about it every company you have ever done business with. Has You know through their plan on how they're dealing with it or what they're thinking about it. I every many websites that you go to. They've changed the front page To be information about it. There's nothing to stop the new stuff from the government from your friends or something. You're feeling like it's okay to not mentioned okay to just say. Hey We have this service available. Would you like to? Let's find a way to make the work for you Some probably would have been very effective for us. We have to Strafe in like. Hey we want to record up community right bow One thing that allows us to be a little bit touchable raciness. We're figuring it out with the other one with the making crafted investments where you see the opportunity to so three weeks ago around The beginning of three or four weeks ago around the beginning of March as I mentioned. I'M GONNA solve our business council so castle for March very very back. We were talking about going from Between two hundred to two hundred forty dollars for expected revenue for them. Because we do that most of them to pretty much nothing. We have a couple of consulting contracts that were likely to continue. That weren't contention five dollars a month to zero effectively. Probably somewhere like twenty thousand with a couple of consultant things going on Which is not enough to sustain a business that usually. That's a quarter million because you have to fulltime staff software. You have all this other stuff so some of the action items we took then I would recommend other businesses take now I can I can share so one. We started ruthlessly cutting wanting sample that is about ten thousand dollars a year. I don't actually like male champ. I found a clunky and hard to navigate. It's super slow and I feel like male is trying to trick me into billy me more somehow because it's the thing of audiences that less something. It's like very hard to leave their platform in my opinion. If you just like make the product grading some people wanted us to have to make with. 'cause I'm not here to trash male Chad. That's one example something that we've been thinking about leaving so it was very very easy to say. Hey let's come up that we moved to Basically South posted I m web search person that costs more like or dollars based on usage. And we end up. We did before so. Hey that's one way to say thousand bars Other kinds of actual like so i. I didn't show the thirty. But we did do a partial layoff partial short-term my op for our team. I in particular all associates that we saw that we have no work available one and believes that the best thing that we could do was make possible for them to apply for unemployment before a lot of other people were able to. I've seen other businesses hold off on that decision New People to kind of just a few shifts or having some kind of income in a way that I doesn't quite get them access to the front need So I think worth kind of making those big bowl decisions To be able to support your people another thing that we did was we created an emergency fund for the staff. This isn't that growing. The business is trying to take care of our people. We knew that not everybody would be able to access unemployment by the way not. Everybody has stadium everybody so we set aside a goal of where if they email and cranny reason right whether they have to pay their phone bill or at a card or medicine or food or something. Like this just. Hey here's some we have available to you Other action items. We started hiring again so we had actually with a slow down. The had the tour guides quite on leave and then a couple of members of our headquarters seem to also. I did temporary layoff with the intention. Bring them back as soon as we could. We actually ended up bringing them back two or three days later and hired other people before all this went down we had been in the final stages of hiring director of Hail with ideas that they were going to be able to help grow the business. We're kind of strategic about We told them very likely that. Hey you're our top choice but we can't right now all revenue just here. This is not necessarily make In the business a few days later as soon as we started to see up again we made that investment. We have cash in the bank. We want to invest in such late captures the opportunity best if bill now We I mentioned cut out spends on yelp before any of our competitors Keep an eye on visa with where with help with the cash flow earn. Well we take it with a new model would be and it seems like things are going well and still. I think at one point in the interview. You said that you needed to find a way to keep the company going. How revenue was about a quarter million a month before. Where is it now? Oh March came out at a little over a hundred thousand dollars. I think are a hundred and twenty thousand dollars. Something like that. For a couple of reasons one. We did capture something revenue before Abbas inside the capsule and in some cases in some cases the canceled decided to take it at the credit of future and said hey usually we have kind of sexual ethics my policy. Whatever you can have a for two years. So we're able to retain some of that money in EPA Sunday thirty sixty thousand dollars back whatever it was We had some other consulting avenue that was just in March. You know it wouldn't be coming in April and the new money coming in from virtual wealth though I think for the virtual team building the numbers than about forty thousand dollars for March expectation. It's going to be significant anymore because there is even as quickly as we acted. There's still a procurement process for all these large companies that takes them make vision. We close a light at the end of the month a lot. We close to forty thousand dollars. And that's my expected to be somewhere between eighty and two hundred I and if we continue to See the lead some interest then. We're building that better systems every day. So we actually have more interest in what we're doing right now than we ever have before museum half with. Walk off with some of the other brands. I'm like a normal day. We'd get between twenty and thirty qualified leads and could expect that about ten percent of them would turn into a business deals now. Instead of having a hundred fifty leads a week. We have one hundred fifty a day so the week of March ninth when it first started coming in. We couldn't handle that capacity right too much too. Full-time sales at another part time person but as the weeks has gone on we've hired more We have another. I think tree failed traps. We've got the director of sales on. We're figuring out pricing. We're figuring out what exactly people want. We're getting data to be able to convert a lot more so I just want should be healthy going to be healthy as well. I'm wondering this is an amazing turnaround for a company. That really could've just said we're going to go into hibernation for a little bit and had a lot of understanding from people. I'm wondering why you are a little hesitant to do the interview with me when I put that. Call out a handful of people said I don't WanNa do. I'm doing better Andrew but I don't WanNa talk about publicly and I totally understood People don't WANNA look like they're like dancing while others are dying you know so. I said okay. I'm not gonNA push push with anyone who had even the slightest bit of hesitation including you and then now that I'm hearing your story. I wonder why you had any hesitation. This feels like the the story to tell right now to just shows how you're able to keep your head on a way of turning things around a way of recognizing the challenge that people have in the world today. Which is this this online Transition is creating demand creating challenges creating frustration creating opportunities. You found it. You're helping out. Why was there any hesitation? That's a long winded way to ask why was a lot as he have a lot of competitors and. I love him confident yet in our lead so now a couple of weeks Kim. We acted faster than anybody else did. We update our website in in about a week. It was about a week before anybody else did substantial action and in that time yet we started to build the landing pages. We STARTED TO BUILD BRAND. My sites decided to put up ads. Starting new link building and that one week is a knock of a competitive advantage. That is going to be very very difficult for competitors to catch up so I'm happy to say like hey virtual bill big anybody else wants a piece of it like laughing at the head. Because it's GonNa that gap some of our competitors. They're super smart. They're super cyber. They're good at marketing. They're going to be a close. I don't think anybody who's going to be able to pass what we're doing. I get your site does look really. I feel like who's your designer. Did you ask me the little characters in the bottom right of team building dot com? I didn't drop it by hand vector images about the site. Everything is that takes in artistic sense of confidence because the characters have nothing to do with nothing. They're just like a nice design touch right. Let's overwhelm without feeling like it's four. Wow all right okay. The website is for anyone who's curious. Go CHECK OUT TEAM BUILDING DOT COM I do think it's really beautifully designed. I don't know what else I could say about this. I think this is these story to tell right now. I feel like every frigging newspaper in the world every other newspapers anymore. I think the media should be picking up on this. I think this is the feel good story for business. People a guy who's business should've been completely destroyed who instead says I'm going to recognize the problem and I'm going to go and help out. Go CHECK THEM OUT. At team building dot com on the two sponsors made. This interview happened the first. If you understand what's keeping your customers from continuing on with your business what's keeping them happy if you want to really get in their minds not just by asking them but by asking them and merging it with a mechanism artificial intelligence. I probably could say it. I think it probably is. I'M GONNA say with with certain smart software to help you pull all the data together and make sense of it. Go check out. The lighted really delighted DOT COM Slash Mixer G. They're giving you something. They're not giving other people which is free use their software for for life. I think it could this be for life. You know what go check it out just to confirm I. I just don't see them charging people at all they just want you to go in there and try and yes. If you want to upgrade they will charge you more if you charge if you start to go through the process but they just want you to go and try it right now. It's available limited time. They only bought like three ads with me. So once it's gone it's gone. Don't lose it. Go TO DELIGHTED DOT COM SLASH MC. Sergio be really grateful that you did number one and number two. I WANNA thank. Click funnels if you're creating any kind of web page online right now. Do One that will actually get you results. And that's the of clicks. They will turn your visitors into customers and make it so easy. Won't believe it all the things that we've been talking about you'll get to us just by using their software drag and drop it baby at click funnels dot com slash mixture. G. And some gone through this whole list of links right now Michael. I will also say that now that this podcast is over if you want more tactics for marketing go check out marketing secrets podcast and whatever APP. You're listening to marketing secrets. Thank you so much Michael. My thanks much to happen to you. It's a pleasure to share a little bit that we glared. I am I hope it will be released for people all right bye.
The World Ahead: The future of work
"Hello and welcome to the world head on economist Radio I'm Tom stanage deputy editor of the Economist. In this future gazing podcast series, we consider that provocative prophecies and speculative scenarios to gain a different perspective on the president and help us better prepare for what might come. Next this month we're looking at the future of work and how covid nineteen has been a catalyst for. Change we'll be asking where will companies at workers strike the balance between working offices and working from home. There's still no substitute for in person events in communication. That's human nature we crave that and we still need that an how might remote working change what people get paid there is some inaugural that this will be kind of interesting nathela by within countries and between them. The big companies that emerged in the late nineteenth century created the need for office workers, the office allowed for work to be coordinated via meetings for orders to be transmitted by written memos and for the employees to be supervised by managers. But all of this required people to work in close proximity in recent years however, technologies made it much easier to work. Remotely meetings can be virtual memos could be sent by email and employees can collaborate using online platforms but most companies didn't get the memo that offices had become a lot less necessary. This year however, the pandemic has made crystal clear that a lot of work done in offices can, in fact, be done just as well or even better home since the pandemic began those one of the biggest shifts in the work that the water never seen to wards working welcomehome teleworking comedian, whatever you call it and speaking the of giant glib examined in has been pretty successful. Keller. Williams is a senior economics writer at the Economist and he was one of the authors of our recent cover package on the future of work. So what evidence did he find on the question of productivity or? Generally dairies, then exactly measuring productivity, but they are measuring what workers do at that time, which is decent proxies, for instance, as a good study that looks up. Microsoft and done by some besides the Microsoft which is looking. So basically, how work has been time under lockdown and we'll find workers are able to spend more time on what they can focus our and if basically setting aside chunks of time with our external distractions to kind of get something done said. Economists about would say that hasn't yet been deep definitive study of working from home on the lockdown and in two thousand tippety. But certainly self reported for two years higher and there are indications that is higher from through the proxy sources as well. Now, your piece mentioned this controversial theory that officers make people less productive, which would obviously tribe with this idea that working from her makes you more productive. So what is it about working officers that makes you less productive? So this is one of the great unresolved kind of debates in the spatial annex literature if if I can call it not, which is is sort of both onto the question of whether. Don't face is good because it promotes collaboration between different people or whether it bad partic- because basically officers quite distracting and the research on this kind of interestingly quite sort of indeterminate. There's a study for instance that looks at the buildings in MIT, which is looking at how many patents and publications are Aku written win by more than one also in Mit, and some of the evidence suggests that being kind of really busy building with lots of other people that's good for activity, and then some evidence actually suggests the opposite side in sunset was the nation that being in a building with other people and the notion that water cooler moments or seventy. Interactions were essential for corporations to do well, is actually assumption that has less evidence than you might say, what about this theory that the switch to working from home has been smoother than some people expected because workers had already accumulated that social capital they were already working on projects with people they knew from the office. So doing it remotely wasn't that big leap, but that we will sort of through that social capital at some point how could we tell at that was happening when I suppose Intel is ultimately in the output of the FEMME. You could also tell by people saying that they felt that they were becoming detached from the company in that. Sense that you hear. I mean I think what's happening right now is a sentinel radio representative of of the potential of working from hiring because people based here for good reason, find it hard to meet in person and you get together as you would normally. So I think that the social capital fear that you raise is a valid one. You can't just lift and shift white works and in-person world to remote world and expect it to work. Erica. Brescia is the chief operating officer of get hub a company that provides online tools used by programmers, and those tools are built and maintained by a workforce that is mostly remote that means get hub has years of experience in managing remote workers and how. Things need to be done differently compared with working in an office I. Think the key is that you need to take a new approach to things. You need to write a lot more down than you used to need to be thoughtful about time zones you need to think about recording things. So people can watch them in their own time and there's still no substitute. For in person events in communication, right? That's that's human nature we crave that and we still need that and so you know, I think as we look at how work is going to evolve over time, it's really GonNa be finding the right balance between giving people the flexibility to work where they want and when they want but also making sure that we provide those. Opportunities for people to come together and really still feel connected to one another as well as having in-person meet ups every few months get hub also arranges team building exercises and social activities that happen online to build connections, its workers we and other companies do a lot of different things from virtual perspective. Right we've done everything from scavenger hunts to online happy hours to. Pub Quizzes and so on and and found different ways for folks to connect. So we're trying these different ways at helping people to connect but even that it's just not the same and I'm personally convinced it never will be you're always going to have that name to bring folks together at least some of the time. First person to get their winter jacket, put it on and did it all the way the top three place with twenty seven points. Team milkshakes everybody. Down to the Games. We run team building activities for companies like Apple Amazon Google, also government these universities nonprofits in two thousand and twenty of course that most virtual team by titties Michael Alexis is the CEO and founder of team building dot COM as its name suggests it's a training company and it used to offer it services in person but like many other companies, it's had to move its activities online in response to the pandemic everything changed. Very quickly, at the march, we had from having a healthy thriving growing business two zero revenue overnight a lot of the locations that we operated at closed down and a lot of the clients that where the planning travel between offices or group events, of course, stop plan as well. They were very early on to do that. So we did reinvent quickly and their similarities with our in person events, but all the ones that we. Run Our online office. Kim's said Ben built using what we know about team building and getting helping teams work together better and build relationships and combining that with kind of deep research into the different platforms available and how to best use them. For example, on the video calls we almost always use breakout rings feature Liam where you can take people from the main call and sort them into smaller groups where they can then function. Just with four five, six people might expect a lot of people listening to this can relate to that first time you got out a call and there's thirty or forty people out there. You don't know who's less lead slow bit nerve wracking. But within that small group, you can be more comfortable. You can be more confident just share-out and then come back to the main room for smart the games warmed up to it and. Essentially, the same sorts of companies asking for your services or is there something much more demand because people want to build teams online in a way that they didn't before have you seen this sort of patented damone changing so With local team building, we were mostly restricted to our major outbreak and cities. We had New York Chicago. San Francisco. Lock Angeles got name a large American city. We had some presence there with virtual team building interesting because now he can reach anybody anywhere right as long as they have a stable gun reliable. Internet connection. So we continue to work with large organizations in those cities where all work also working with smaller operations that you know. Maybe it's a small paper printing company we've worked with government entities, not just in the US but internationally, as well in Europe in parts of Asia, and those markets that just weren't acceptable to us before at least not yet but it's Not only that there's a lot of challenges that come with remote work when you do it especially for the first time, it's lonely it's isolating ten times more. So Jerry to pandemic. So companies are realizing this the realizing that they need to find opportunities for people to connect and get that face time and bring them together and help them feel that sense of normal time that directly needs it. Shifted doing things remotely changes how people work but what about the offices they've left behind? What does this mean for commercial real estate his Williams. Again, none of those red presents a bloodbath scenario where commercial office rents absolutely full of cliff and of Companies Boston. Everything will. They shows that when declined for a while being fisticuffs cheaper than it was. So I think that's quite likely they historical evidence would suggest that people do like to fleas during pandemics often for a long time but they do hold a kind of irresistible lear for people certainly wouldn't want to for the end of cities. What is happening today is an acceleration version. What was happening free cove? Mark Dickson is the CEO and founder of the International Workplace Group formerly known as Regis a big provider of flexible workspaces in countries around the world. So pre code. Companies were progressively moving towards a hub and spoke hybrid working model in a digital world realized that they didn't have to bring everyone together into large office buildings and sort of herb together, save them all. They just didn't need to do that anymore. And in fact, quite inconvenient bringing people together and his expansive. So for jury coaching pretty much the entire white collar workforce worldwide has had an induction of forced induction into working digitally and working from home or remotely. Now, it's not sustainable because. Individuals working for hunt for long periods of time becomes a problem they lose the inspiration they get from working meeting with colleagues meeting third party. So the future becomes much more of this hybrid model where companies will move towards a more permanent for what you had today. Now, it's been proven that it will work all this has big implications for offices then, but it doesn't make them obsolete more people will work close to home and avoid commuting because it just doesn't make any sense anymore. And cities become contract the office requirement cities become smaller, but they still have very much. A very important function in terms of providing the meeting place where these distributed workforce is come together. However rule office dome will go down and it was already happening the six percent myspace used to be all by by paper that's already down to three, and this whole digital transformation will bring that down to one zero two, and so you bay changes ahead. It's a future of decentralized offices, repurpose office buildings, and maybe lower costs workers you have more flexibility and no longer need to live in an expensive city to be close to their employer before cities will getting so expensive even though. City workers come onto the premium. Because of the cost of living Bejaia in many places, it wasn't enough to compensate for those living costs. Say for instance in London if you live off the housing costs income in London, they've been doing really badly now for pointed on time because housing is so high. So it wasn't the case the workers him coming into London were being paid these absolute ranson's because they had to pay for high cost of housing they were actually getting A. Deal. So in terms of what the work is, kind of disposable income is at the end of the month, I can I should be pretty good. Then what about the impact on pay because when a company says that? People could work anywhere people who have been working for that company in a high cost of living city such as the bay area San Francisco if they decide, they want to move somewhere else presumably the company can say, we're not going to pay you quite so much. In fact, we're going to hire a whole lot of people from this country over here who seemed to have all the skills we won't and don't require quite as much money and they can work for US remotely. So how do you think that will shake out at who could lose be thinking? Very not terms if the action school so engineer for facebook is asked productive as they were. Shouldn't really master facebook. Where I work, there's a also of when facebook would have rights in aware that worker is working on. There is certainly an argument that this will be kind of interesting Leffler geographically, both within countries and between them in facebook's employees, Nov paid so much simply because they are willing to live in San Francisco. Because that really bitter their job and they will continue to really good at their job even if anything in Utah somewhere in Texas or whatever say I, suspect that it won't be quite as leavening of some people expect. Employers are taking different approaches to adjusting pay team-building DOT COM. As people the same for a particular kind of work. No matter where they live the way that we have run and I suspect will continue to around his through standardisation, which means for each role and each level of experience within it. We have pay rate. So our hosts, for example. An hourly rate for their time, and they earn that rate weather based in a New York or San Francisco, or even some number based in smaller cities around the US some of them are based in Australia and they all earn the same rate and the same rate in US dollars. So we don't localize it for canned Austrailia, Europe etc. get how fast like many employers takes into account where it's workers live and adjusted accordingly I do think it's important have. Equity in pay and so if somebody starts out in an expensive area, then moves to a less expensive area. Then like many companies would do a a market adjustment for that to keep it fair for whatever market the people are moving into right you don't WanNa have this situation where perhaps somebody is in a lower cost area and then a quote unquote more expensive employees from San Francisco moves in and then all of a sudden you have this disparity in pay. Big thing which is a conversation hasn't started yet is around employment. kind of Williams again, with the benefit of hindsight, it seems to be obvious that the vice gig economy would lead to lots of debates around the correct classification of workers is an uber driver and employee of Uber is he or she self employed or? Is he or she somewhere in the middle? Similar sorts of conversations will star when working from home the comes the norm. So for instance, in many EU countries, it is the case that there are limits on working time. There's a question about how. Will working type of weapons. If hiring is always the case in many countries, employers have to make reasonable adjustments for people in order to perform that job in an office or decent standard. Say for instance, having lifts, Othman Justin, and all that sort of stuff. So you can imagine situations where someone says item have very much money I live in a in an old building it's the middle of wins and I live in. My company needs to pay for some of my heated or needs to pay my Internet connection all that stuff. So I think that something. Needs Sauce in Hebrew now, it certainly something that companies are thinking about his Erica. Prussia again, companies are still really understanding what our responsibilities to. I think we're all seeing the evolution of Gig working to which I think is another really important trend that's here to stay people are going to be working in more flexible ways I think they're going to have more control over their jobs I think over time, we'll see more job sharing more. You know eighty percent time for eighty percent pay kind of work. I think folks really are going to be experimenting quite a bit moving forward to figure out what makes the most sense for their business and also their employees. There's no doubt that when we emerge from the crisis of the pandemic, the world of work will look very different but one silver lining seems likely to be the widespread adoption of new and more flexible. Working Practices, we asked each of our guests to give us their predictions of how things might and Don I think with most companies what will actually see is that folks will come into the office some of the time like when we've surveyed our employees who used to be office space, they appreciate being able to work from home some of the time but they. Still want to come in two days a week and I just think we'll see a lot more flexibility around the expectations for people to be in the office and instead of being in an office because they're told, they have to be there people will come in when they're work demands right when it's worth that needs to be done with other people Michael Alexis again. There's a lot of exciting opportunities to increase some promote diversity with. A lot of companies and organizations may have limitations based on their location right if you are based fin if we said. You're London while you have the local market to hire from, and how you hire will depend on Sundays in the makeup of that city remote worked removes those barriers. So you can take their intentions you can take the best practices and you can find people anywhere in the world to build a more diverse team and finally Mark Dickson. Environmental question is massive so Basically, the enormous pressure on the environment through of people commuting also very inefficient trophies buildings. Won't be one of the good things. Come from a terrible thing, which is the panic. Moments and. I think this hybrid working as the absolutely proven. Now it just needs to find his place I think the the mentionable get reminded. That's all for this edition of the world. Ahead, you can listen to and read more generalists by subscribing to the economist Goto economists dot com slash podcast offer for the best introductory offer and not link in the show notes to. I'm Tom Stanage in London. This is the economist.