19 Episode results for "Meredith"

32: Develop Business Acumen & Become an Expert - Meredith Messenger

Daily Sales Tips

03:54 min | 1 year ago

32: Develop Business Acumen & Become an Expert - Meredith Messenger

"Welcome back to the daily sales tips podcast. I'm your host Scott Ingram. Today's tip comes from my new friend Meredith messenger. Meredith is a growth strategist who helps people increase their revenue through her custom strategy development training programs workshops, and through her selling with Seoul podcast here. She is with today's tip. Hey, what's up? This is Meredith messenger years sales messenger, gross strategists. And host of the selling was sold podcast. I'm excited to be here with you today sharing. What I believe to be is a critical element of modern day successful selling and that is business acumen. The idea of really getting to know your clients your target market on the deepest of levels and having business acumen. So that you're able to provide the value that today's modern buyers are looking for look you need to get beyond your company, brochures, the market. Materials that you've been given. An immerse yourself in the industry in the environment that you are selling in you need to understand your potential clients business almost better than they do you need to read the industry publications you need to attend the right of vents in learn you need to immerse yourself in your buyers companies. So that you can provide them the insights that they need in order to be led successfully through the buying experience. Because today's selling is in about having the best product the best price is not even about having drinks with the most important people. Although that never hurts. But it's about providing value, and you cannot provide the value that you need and the leadership that your buyers require from you if you don't understand the space on a really intimate level. So I strongly encourage you. In fact, I am begging you to become a student of your business. Invest the time the resources and the energy that it takes to become an expert. Is it a lot of work? Yes. It is. Does it go beyond understanding basic sales techniques? Yes, it does. But it is going to elevate you above ninety percent of your competitors out there, all of the sudden, you're able to inject value into every sales conversation that you have your able to flip the conversation from being focused on you and your offering to providing value, and that is going to do some amazing things for your sales. It's going to make your prospecting easier. It's going to make your conversions higher, and it's going to translate into long-term partnerships with your clients that not only generate revenue for you and provide value for them, but retain well and develop into longterm relationships that you can count on. And that my friend is a good place to be. I'm always here. If you want some help on how to develop your biz. Acumen, and translate it into greater sales success. You can find me at any of the links provided in the show notes. I'd be glad to help until we talk. Again, I want you to remember that the world needs more of what you are selling. So get out there and get it done. Happy selling this tip is the perfect companion to Craig Rosenberg's tip yesterday where he suggested opening a dialogue with your prospects with industry insights, that's tough to do if you don't have a deep understanding of their industry. So my question for you today is how have you developed your own business acumen and worked to become an expert? You can share your comments and read those of others at daily sales dot tips forward slash thirty two. You'll also find links to all things Meredith messenger on that page as well. I'll talk to you tomorrow.

Meredith messenger Meredith Scott Ingram Seoul Craig Rosenberg ninety percent
Triangulation 383: Meredith Broussard: Artificial Unintelligence

Triangulation

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

Triangulation 383: Meredith Broussard: Artificial Unintelligence

"Coming up on triangulation. Meredith sard is here. She's going to talk about her new book. Artificial unintelligent about how computers misunderstand the world. Casts. You love from people you trust. This is. This is triangulation episode three eighty three recorded December tenth twenty eighteen for February. I twenty nineteen Meredith who starred artificial unintelligent s-. Welcome to triangulation. This is the show that every week we speak to some of the most enlightening fascinating people working in tech and writing about tech. And today, my guests does both. And as an interesting story about why she's doing does more writing than tech or more tech renting, we'll we'll get. We'll have her. Explain it. Meredith Broussard is a professor at NYU a data journalist a programmer, and author of the book artificial intelligence, how computers misunderstand the world's basically about how a I does not do as much as you think. Thank you so much for joining us Inc. You so I love this book. I love the premise because I think it's I think it's so much of what we grew up with. I you you say that years you were in college. So I think we're about the same age. And so we think we had the same similar experience of the early nineties being in college and just thinking that technology was going to solve all. Our problems, and you know, it being sort of the while we were in college sort of the birth of the internet kind of, you know, not as we know it. But of course, it was there, you know, back in the seventies. But was a different kind of internet. So let's talk a little bit about your background. And you you start with the book with your childhood your experience with a robot. So tell tell that story. So when I was about seven my parents bought me for Christmas and erector set, which was this this Motassedeq kit where you got like little little pieces of pierced medal and little tiny child size wrenches and screws. And you could put together a a robot. And so I was so excited about this robot. And I thought this robot was going to be in my new best friend, and I thought this robot was going to sing and dance and play with me. And then the reality of the robot. Was totally different. I I some of this whole thing I spent, you know, days weeks, assembling this thing, and there was little tiny battery pack with the little tiny motor. And so it lug it in connect the wires plug in the battery and nothing happens. And I was just I was so disappointed in that moment. And I tried all the things I can think of like swapped the batteries, and I turned it off and then on again, and I went got my mother, and I said mom, it's not working. And she said, well, did you drive turning it on and turn? Especially the batteries. I said, yes. So she looked at it. And she said, oh, it's broken. And I was very sad. But then she explained that I things break, and that there are problems in simply lines and sometimes parts just don't work as you expect them to. And so then we went, and we got we got a replacement motor and we've plugged in. And it did eventually work, but it was very anti-climactic at that point. And so that's the lesson that I've taken with me into every bit of technology that I built because I started I started coding shortly. After that. I think I wrote my first my first program when I was about eleven, and I so I've been writing computer programs for my entire life, basically. And I do it with the awareness that things break that I he says don't always work the way that you expect and. And that technology is not infallible. So I think in this new world where we're talking a lot about AI. And we're talking about all the things that AI can do. It's really great. But we need to temperate with the awareness that things break and things don't always work the way that you expect. I think that's such a great story because I think so many people that I know, you know, my parents some of my friends and many women friends. It's when something doesn't work. It's they think it's their fault. Well, well, I just don't know how to use it like, I, you know, I'm not good at acknowledgee or, you know, and it's like, well, no, maybe it's not maybe it's broken. Or maybe it needs to be better at understanding you use it it your to to to to take the lesson that you learned from that is so important. So you said you write it by your junior year, you could make a web page. You could spin up a spin up a web server write code in six different programming language languages in an undergraduate majoring in math, computer, science or engineering at the time. This was completely. Normal for a woman. It wasn't. You were one of six undergraduates six undergraduate women majoring in computer science at a university of twenty thousand graduates and an undergraduate students, and you only knew two of the other women in computer science. So, you know, this is something we hear about a lot. I I'd love to talk. I'd love for you to talk about like what what was that? Like, what was that college experience like for you? It was really a lonely. It was lonely, and it was alienating. And I could I could see what the issues were. I could see the pipeline issues happening in real time to me. But I wasn't empowered to make any changes. I and I since the book came out I've actually since been introduced to one of the other women computer science majors who I could not find at the time and she's doing. Great like, she's just very successful in her career. And. I salute her for an I salute all of the all of the women majoring in computer science at the time for being able to make it through because the sexism is real the isolation. And the alienating is real. And I think what people don't realize is that the social forces that tell girls that they're not good at science or they're not good at math. Those are not just forces that I that happen in highschool those forces start in third grade as early as third grade little girls are getting messages that they're not good at science or math or the boys are better at science and math. And so we really if we're going to reverse the or we're going to have equal representation in stem fields. We can't just intervene in college catches intervened in high school, we have to intervene all the way along occasionally. And you talk about this in your book, you know, inevitably. When when I talk about us few people being in the computers few women being in computer sciences. I in about an Neville get people who say, well, you know, there were only two people in my CS class. They're only four people in my whole program. And and the conclusion that people draw is that women are drawn to this. They they don't like it. It's not they're not fit for it. The you know, whatever it is whatever ways someone can put their foot in their mouth about this. But you say that I mean like you're talking about it needs to start it starts early. And it's in the language and just all of this is built in tuck a little bit about about. How is just baked in not just starting early? But in you know, in computer, science languages, and in in school, how how is it part of is that sexism part of of the education? Well it. God. It's so a it's so omnipresent. I if you think about I think about the stereotypical image of a computer scientist, right? Like, do you picture a woman or did you fisherman? Yeah. And I mean, it's obviously our stereotype of a computer scientist is a man who's probably in a hoodie. He's probably white, man. He's probably young right now. Most computer scientists actually don't look like that. But I that's our stereotype when you think about a stereotype of the mathematician. I who pops into your brand will it's probably a man that's probably nerdy band with a pocket protector. Or maybe we're if we're going with with kind of Hollywood stereotypes and one of the past is important to realize is that computer science is a descendant of mathematics and so- math has as much of a gender has a worse gender problem. Then a lot of other fields and so- computer science has inherited all of the biases and old. The problems of mathematics is until the nineteen forties. We didn't have computer scientists all the early computer. Scientists were mathematicians. And and you say that really if you want to be a programmer, you don't really need any math higher than sixth or eighth grade. Math. Right. You can do a you can do you can have a very good career as a as a programmer nowadays without knowing higher, Matt. So it used to be that computer science. I required you to do a lot of higher level math, and it doesn't anymore. That's one of the that's one of the consequences of automation and computers, literally compute. So there their machines for doing math. And so they've they've gotten very good or programmers have made excellent programs for camouflaging math. So we can do programming in a kind of more human like language nowadays. So you get to be distance from the mathematics a lot. So if what I would say to anybody who is. Who is watching and his feeling Illing. Like, maybe they don't have the mathematical chops to go into computer science or to get a job as a programmer, I would say that as long as you could handle math up until that if grade you ought to be fine. That's good advice. I think so much of it has to do with how people explain things, and that's one of the things that struck me with your book. I mean, I I gather that it's sort of your you. I can as I was reading it. I could imagine you standing in front of a group of undergraduates, and I appreciated that because it wasn't you weren't dumbing it down at all. But you were clearly explaining things, I mean, for example, you go through the way to the Hello world. Which was the first thing that everybody learns, of course, and you, you know, have the reader write it down with a pen and paper. And then, you know, say it out loud, write it down pen and paper then opened up the terminal on your MAC. And then show how you do. It was this. How did you choose the audience for this book? Because I mean, I've read so many I've read so many books about this that just are either over my head or under my head. And this was just right. There were a needed to be. How did you choose what audience we're gonna? This at. Well, I'm so glad to hear that. Because that's that's exactly what I was trying to do with the level of the book on. I have also had the experience that a lot of technical writing is either like way up here or way down here. And it's kind of not wear I needed to be. So I really I picked a level for the book that I is similar to the level that I use in my classes. So I have very very bright students in my classes. But I nobody knows everything. And I it's it's very important or. I kind of to be an empowered digital citizen. It's very important to know the foundational concepts inside technology, and what I discovered in the classroom was that I k through twelve computer science education is often doesn't include the kinds of things that I learned in my K through twelve computer science education. So like students are not really learning basic programming anymore. And I found that a lot of students boat really intimidated by something like using the terminal, right? So I one of the things that I do my classes as we do a hands on exercise where we go into the terminal, and we read some fine code, and nobody dies and. At the really important. It's a really important lesson that you can do this. I so in the book, I take readers through what is it like to do this? And of course, the terminal is much less user friendly looking than anything else that you use on your computer. So if you really comfortable in your web, browser maybe open up the terminal window and black, and you have to type everything instead of using the mouse and people people sometimes feel intimidated by that, and you don't really have to. But I some people do. And so I want people to get over that feeling of anxiety. I want people to feel empowered. So that they also feel empowered to I to say no to computational decisions when those decisions are illogical or unfair. Yeah. That's so important. I think my experience sometimes with the terminal is like having people say like, oh, don't mess with a terminal you're gonna mess something up. You know, you don't like worry your pretty little head about the terminal like we'll take care of that. And just really. It it. It just becomes now that everything is technology. Our you know, our door locks in our cars and everything. I mean, you just can't treat it that way. It's you know, you're doomed if you do so. Yeah, it was really nice to have you say like just opening up. It's fine. I like, I already trusted you buy page twelve or whatever it was where you got that. So. You know, one of the things I tell my students is the only way you can break. Your computer is with a hammer. Yes. Which by the way, I do also recommend taking an old computer apart and using a hammer on it and just like opening that thing up and looking at where the wires go in go out and how everything's put together. Yeah. There's some great pictures in the book of you know, what the inside of a computer looks like and you do take to the hammer which take the hammer to the hard drive, which you say is the only real way to protect your privacy, which is true. And I mean, I think that that's so important too. Because I'm on this big kick just fixing our stuff instead of upgrading it to something else. And just hoping the best for for what you know. We're old I phones, and I just think that's that's so important if you're scared that you're just gonna keep upgrading. And then we have this giant pile of ways that we don't know what to do it. So. Exactly, exactly know, very I'm very interested in the right to repair a movement. I've been kind of following along as as people farmers advocate for the right to repair their their tractors his tractors are increasingly computerized nowadays. It's very it's very interesting. But yeah, I mean, it really does dovetail nicely with you the work that you're doing as we were talking before the show started about your Kifah battery. Being a burning out. And so you you couldn't figure out how to unlock your door. And I think that that is with with the right to repair mo- movement. It's interesting because cars, like there's laws around, you know, the repair shops of cars that they can they can know what the they're allowed to know what those mysterious car error codes are, but now with iphones were not allowed to know what they mean, you know, it's very close closed in system. So. Let's talk about artificial intelligence, which is the the meat of this of your book. And by the way, we said, you know, if if you think well, I know how to write Hello world in twenty-six different programming language, and you do a good job of saying. We'll skip to chapter four, you know, you'll be Biden's he can do that too. So I there's two different kinds of AI the the narrow a and the other one can you talk a little bit about the difference between those two. Sure. So general AI is the is the Hollywood image of AI. So that's the Terminator that's the singularity. That's the robots that are going to take the world. That's like anything. Let's about making a little brain inside the computer making the computer sent yet somehow that's androids. And that's all imaginary narrow AI is actually what we have narrow AI Israel and narrow AI is just math. It's very very beautiful math. It's gorgeous and complicated and high level math. But it's just math. It's basically a computational statistics on steroids. So it's really important to keep in mind the distinction between narrow and general AI because when you start imagining, oh, well, the Hollywood image of a I you know, is is. Real. Then we kind of got confused. So you need to be new to make sure in conversations about AI that you and the person you're talking to are actually talking about the same thing because if your talking about making the Terminator and I'm talking about predicting I- someone's predicting whether or not somebody is going to repay their mortgage, and you be decision on loan. Those are two totally different things. And we need to make sure that we are talking about the same thing. So that we can be on common ground, especially when we're talking about how to make policy and people also now use the term machine learning in a entertain ably, and you say that's wrong as well. Oh, yeah. So this is one of the things that I find super interesting. So as as a writer, I'm really interested in language, and so, but then as a computer scientist also very interested in precision, I guess those right arm interest precision around language as well. I, but so artificial intelligence is a sub field of computer science the same way that algebra is a sub field of mathematics and inside the field of artificial intelligence. There are other sub-fields. Okay. So machine learning is one sub-field artificial intelligence. I natural language processing is another so field. Experts systems is another view but machine learning is the one that most popular right now. And so most of the time when people say, oh, I'm using AI for business with they actually mean is that they're using machine learning for business? So the two terms have become confused. The other really interesting thing here is the implications of the term artificial intelligence, it makes it sound like those little brain inside the computer same thing with machine learning. Even though I absolutely know with all my brain on all of my heart that there is nothing sentient inside this machine when I hear machine learning. I still think oh the machine is maybe learning the way that human being does. And that is not true. So there's a power in language, and we have to make sure that I we respect the fact that I language creep happens. And that we still recognize that we're talking about math when we're talking about machine learning. Yeah. I mean, it's hard to like when you when you hear that a computer has beaten, a chessmaster or go master. It's hard to not sort of imagine like that they went through the same things that the the the chesser go master did just trying really hard until they got it, right and working really hard. And that's that's not true, you go into detail kind of about how that works. And why they why people use games as a barometer of how? Well, a I is doing can you talk a little bit about that. For the people who make who make computer programs, and who make I machine learning algorithms, and who do artificial intelligence, I there's been kind of a social thing that's happened inside those fields where I most of the people who are in the field really really like playing games, and they really really like playing games like chess. And so it came to be that that small and homogeneous group of people decided that oh smart people play chess. And therefore if we're going to make a computer that sparked the computer is going to play chess. And if it wins at chess, then it must be the smartest, and it must be artificially. Intelligent. Which is not true. But I it explains why there's been so much effort at getting computers to play chess. I I it was versus tic-tac-toe on the computers mastered it, and then it was checkers, and that was chess. And that was go and each one of these games incrementally harder. And it takes decades to figure out how to get a computer to to win at these games at the zero sum games, and it's a pretty remarkable achievement. But one of the things that I find so interesting about it is that it's about human achievement. So I in the book, I go through what it took to get the computer to beat human expert at go. And what happened was people play, computer? Go all the time. Like, there are thousands and thousands and thousands of games of computer, go happening at any given moment and people have been training or go tournaments by playing computer go for years and years and all that data gets captured and it gets represented in data sets. Right. So we have millions of hours of recorded data on people who are bad and people who are good. I laying go all over the world. And so we have all of these are mutations. So what the? Computer? Scientists did was they took all of that data and they plunked him into the computer, and they said, computer. Pick your strategy based on the strategies that have been successful in this data set, and there's actually so much data now that yes, it is possible to beat the best human go player. But it's not about the computer using its own strategy that came up with it's about the computer using strategies that were created by the best go players in the world. So so is there. Go ahead. Oh, well, so which I think is a really interesting phenomenon because we imagine that the computer is autonomously doing something, right? Like, we imagined that the computer has been programmed to make these these decisions on its own, but actually, no, it's a totally different paradigms. And I it relies on something that is called the unreasonable effectiveness of data. So if you have enough data, you can get a computer to meek ready. Reasonably accurate guesses about what is going to happen next in very very highly constrained situations, and the people who are writing these algorithms don't really understand what's going on in the black box. And they can't really express what's going on in the black box. They just know that it works. Right. So the unreasonable effectiveness of data describes this phenomenon. So this is this is probably where we might start talking about techno chauvinism, which is one of the major terms that using the book chauvinism, obviously just is is a gender term. And it seems to me sort of like a little bit of an old fashioned term. I thought about the word for a long time because I don't think I've never really heard it used in any way, besides male chauvinism. But but techno tuck little bit about what techno chauvinism is. And why you chose that word. So took chauvinism is the idea -nology is always the highest and best solution. Techno chauvinist believe that. Computer solutions are better than human solutions. I in the same way that I show been assists believe that men are better than women as things by it. So I it's a kind of bias and techno chauvinism, of course, has a gender component to it. I there's a kind of hefty dose of unacknowledged sexism inside techno chauvinism. I so I I have noticed something happening in the past couple of decades where people have started saying things like I Megan decision using a computer is better than making a decision. I through social means because the computer is more unbiased the computers, more objective and. We believe that for a long long time. But it's become apparent in the past couple of years at that belief was wrong that the bias toward using computers over using humans is itself a kind of bias, and is I is dangerous in and of itself. So we have situations like. The compass algorithm, which you probably you're probably familiar with. And that was an algorithm that was used to decide on sentencing and on whether or not somebody would receive bail after they were arrested, and it was a very very straightforward straightforward equation. That would I take the results of a quiz us, you'd be given this this quiz, fewer arrested and crunch the numbers on your quiz and give a a number that was a recommendation on whether or not you were a at risk of re-offending and. Well, it turns out that the algorithm was biased against black people and mathematically there is no way for the algorithm to treat black and white people fairly or equally in the situation. So it turns out that I even though we imagined at first that we were going to kind of go into the new technological utopia where computers were going to make all of our decisions. And it was going to bring about this better world. It actually turns out that the computational world simply reproduces the inequalities of the existing world. And so we live in a world where there is a structural racism while that gets reproduced inside computational systems. We live in a world where there's profound sexism at every level of society and that cuts reproduced in computational systems. So what I would. Argue for is argue instead of techno chauvinism instead of just assuming that computers do everything better than humans. I would argue that we need to think about what is the right tool for the task. And sometimes that tools computer, and sometimes that will is a human and one is not better than the other. It's situational. And we have the capacity to build these systems that I use computers to make decisions and also us humans to make decisions. Right. Like, it's not it's not an either or proposition. So the to the tool using the right tool. You you go into that that that metaphor that that stories about an experiment. You did with the Philadelphia school earn experience you had with the Philadelphia school system where you had an accommodation with someone that said, you know, poo said while books are always better than or that the I think we want you to tell the story about the I think the conversation started with saying that why you know, if there aren't enough books why not just put the books on an ipad or a computer? And that that is always better talk a little bit about your experience about the to what right tool with is for the job in that experience or well. So this investigates investigation started because I was having an argument with my kid. So my dad was in first grade, and he came home with this worksheet. And I said mom, I need help with my. My homework, and I said sure, of course, because you know, helping so Mark and he said I need to write down natural resources. And I said oil gas coal, and he said, no, those are not natural resources. I said, well, of course, they are. I and he said no, well, that's not what the teacher said in class. And I realized that this was a moment that was about. What was the right answer? That would get him full credit on the assignment, not what was the right answer in the cosmic sense. Because of course, I was rights, but he was also right? And so I needed to teach him how to do school not about oil gas and coal. So I said, well, let's look in the book. We'll get the right answer by looking in the book, and he said, well, there's no book a simple there's horses book. There's always book. That's how school works and said, well there is a book, but we're not allowed to bring it home. The teacher would not let them take home the books that they needed to do their homework, and I thought okay. Well, there's got to be an electronic version of the textbook, right? So I spend like two and a half hours trying to hack into the electric textbook site because the teacher has forgotten to give us all the password for the electric like a big mess. And eventually, I do help with homework, and it's all totally. But I started getting worried because this was in first grade, and I figured if I'm a college professor, and I'm having trouble helping my kid with his first grade homework like by the time, he gets the third grade, and he has to do the standardized tests really worried I'm really worried about how is he going to find out the right answer or the standardized tests if he's not allowed to have the books, and so I started looking at test scores overall in Philadelphia, which is where I was living then and I asked well, if Philadelphia public schools have never been able to get more than fifty percent of their students to pass the standardized tests. Is the lack of books heart of the problem are the students actually getting access to the materials that they need in order to learn the material that's on the state mandated standardized tests. And it turns out that this was a really hard question to answer. Because there are hundreds of schools. There are thousands upon thousands of students in the schools. The school district is profoundly under resource and in under school district's you actually don't have people. You don't have enough people in the schools to keep track of what is physically in the school. So inventory issues are really big problem. I so I could have stopped there perhaps I should have. But I I got really interested this, and I realized that the only way to answer this question of do. Philadelphia students enough books was to build artificial intelligence software. And so I did and I discovered that indeed schools do not have enough books. And Furthermore, the schools did not have enough money in their budget to buy the books. That they would need to prepare the students in order to pass the state mandated standardized tests, so. It was big complicated problem. But then there's a digital element to it as well. Because we talk a lot about the digital divide. Right. Like, the the conversation about technology in schools used to be about digital divide, and who is kind of on which side of digits, I, but then the conversation moved to I well, maybe we should just give everybody, laptops, or ipads, and get rid of the fiscal books. Well, it turns out that people process information differently on screens and on paper. And if you're reading for entertainment, which many of us do reading electrically is just fine. But if you're reading for comprehension, if you're reading for deep knowledge print is actually a better interface and prince's actually, also better interface or sitting around in a room and talking about books or talking about ideas and print is especially a really good interface for a bunch of small children or tweens or teens sitting around and talking about ideas because a print book is not as exciting as a as a digital a digital device. You know, I've I rarely get distracted by. The pages in my novel, my printed novel, whereas I get distracted all the time by the blips and beeps of my computer so in education as in so many other things it's really about using the right tool for the task. And sometimes the right tool is a print book is a codex. It's cheap. I it's easy to replace. I you can make notes Senate. I it doesn't run out of power. And it also doesn't take any infrastructure. One of the things that people forget about technology in schools is that it requires a massive amount of effort to keep it going. So it's not just about oh, let's by the kids, ipads and put all the books on them. You need to have power in the schools. I so lots of classrooms don't actually have enough power outlets or enough enough juice. To support thirty odd, ipads plugged in all at the same time. Okay. You need to have wireless and he needed somebody to maintain it. If you've ever been at a at a tech conference in a hotel, the wireless quickly gets overwhelmed by the by the demands of a bunch of, you know, hundreds of technologists trying to use it at the same time and same thing happens in schools, when I you know, you have what like three devices per person, you're trying to get them all onto a wireless network. The same time like the wireless network gets overwhelmed us you need power. You need wireless. You also need each back need air conditioning because computers overheat, very easily. And so if you don't have air conditioning in your schools, then you can't run computers. Well, lots of lots of urban public schools don't have air-conditioning in Philadelphia, specifically the schools close often in the summer. Time because of excessive heat and they don't have the money to put in air conditioning. And they don't have the necessary power to put an air conditioning. So. I thought it was just I thought the story was just about books, but it was about so much more, and it's all wrapped up together. And so when we're thinking about technology issues, we're really thinking about big social issues, and we need to consider a lot of things all at once. So the you you called it the institutional materials refresh program, which meant maybe some computers, and maybe some books. How did how how did that go is? It is the project done. They did allocate several million dollars to instructional materials refresh. So as real to see that I do not think that the problem is fixed entirely. However. Those hoping you would say it was the whole public school education system was fixed. But not yet. I get well, I tried. So I don't we didn't talk about what you do. Now that you're dated journalist. I kind of skipped past that. Now, you were you were a computer science major at Harvard, and then how did you was data data journalism a subject at that point? No it wasn't. I really I I wish that it were so data journalism. I is a term that dates to about two thousand and six, and I it is the current incarnation of what we used to call computer assisted reporting that was a term that came about in the eighties when reporters all got computers on their desktops for the first time and people started doing reporting with spreadsheets and with databases, and then before that it was called precision reporting which actually dates to nineteen sixty eight which is the first time that the tools of social science were used I in investigative reporting on so Phil Meyer a pioneer in the field. I used a mainframe computer to to crunch some survey data and do an investigative story about the Detroit race riots. So there's a pretty reasonably long history of using computers or investigative journalism purposes. So data journalism is the most recent incarnation of that. So what I do is. I write computer code in order to commit acts of investigative reporting. I do kind of reporting this called algorithm accountability reporting. And so there are two ways to do it one way is like what Republican does or what? Julia Angwin does with renew newsroom the markup. I and that is investigating algorithms blackbox out block lack box algorithms that are used to make decisions on our behalf. Right. So that's the compass algorithm or the algorithm that is used to decide if you are a worthy of getting a new credit card or the Algarve. Adams that. Decide who gets into which New York City public school at. So that's investigating them center out there. I do the other side of that. Which is I write my own algorithms in order to I investigate social issues. So it's a relatively new field. I. In the sense that we are using advanced computational methods on for investigative journalism notice. And so you mentioned Julia Angwin who used to be propublica. And now started her own thing is so is that what she used to uncover. I know she was the one that. I think uncovered the the ads that were P we're racist in Facebook and other things like that. Is that does that is that data journalism? Yes. Yes. That is data journalism and that has algorithm accountability reporting. And I that's a particular strain of it. Sorry. We're going to really walk. You're putting on my journalism, professor Hye. So I there are lots of people who are investigating. Platforms. So tech platforms have all of the same problems that everything else in the real world has and they need to be held accountable in the same way. So I people are starting to do investigative reporting projects on the different tech platforms in order to find out. What are the I, you know, how are these platforms discriminating against the dozens what are the what are the threats to democracy hosed by things happening on these platforms? What is illegal activity that's happening on these platforms? So that's a very important function. That journalism serves in democracy is finding these things out so citizens could be more aware and can be empowered. And so journalists now are looking at tech like we look at anything else in the world and were saying, okay, let's be realistic about the problems that we find. So so one of the things that I mean, I completely understand techno chauvinism and runs reading this book. I see it everywhere all the time. And it's great to have a name for it. The the one chapter here that really surprised me is about self driving cars because I'm someone has been saying like they cannot come soon enough, hopefully before my kids get their driver's license. The hasn't happened daughter with a permit, and so parents, it's not it's not going to happen soon. Enough for me. And I always think well, you know, we, yes. Computers are better than humans. They're not gonna text. They're going to be safer, but you sort of blew my mind on that to before they go talk a little bit about what we're missing by saying that self driving cars are right around the corner. And it can't come soon enough. Well, people have been saying self-driving cars are coming soon for decades, actually, which really surprised me. I thought that self driving cars dated to the the DARPA grand challenge, you know, only about a decade ago by it. It turns out that no people have been working on this for very very long time. They've also been working on flying cars for really long time. That has also got happened much too, many people chagrin. I am unfortunately, not one of those people who is super excited about flying cars, but I respect that other people are so self-driving cars. I r I are like any other any other technology, and I've got interested in them a few years ago when I was a I was writing a story on or the university of Pennsylvania alumni magazine about the. The pen driving team Penn self driving car Carty. And so I went for a ride in their in their self driving car, which they were preparing for the DARPA grand challenge. And I thought it was going to die vomit or both simultaneously. It was the most terrifying experience. And so I realized like, oh, I don't really trust these people to make a self driving car that's not going to kill people. And so I kind of forgot about it for years. But then I realized that oh, there's all this rhetoric about self driving cars coming to market soon. And if these Sam dudes who almost killed me into parking lots. So I mean, I because of this experience I have different perspective than most people, right? Like most people have not been in a self driving car. Most people have only seen videos of them or they've like been on test drives and very very highly controlled situations. So when you look at the I the. Code. That is being used in self driving cars when you look at the people who are making the code that goes himself driving cars when you look at the data on this being used to train self driving cars, it is not as robust as you imagine. Okay. So the for example, the image recognition algorithms that are used on you know, that the cars used in order to recognize objects in the real world and respond to them are very very easily defeated read. So like, the the car needs to use it sensors to take in data, and I and take in the picture of the stop sign the corner, and then trigger a sub routine that makes the eye makes the car slow down and stop at the line before the stop sign at. So if I were to go around and put a sparkly unicorn sticker onto stops on the car. Are would stop recognising the stop sign as a stop sign like it would not trigger the subroutine. And then the car would drive through the intersection and cause an accident. Which is terrible because I see stop signs in disrepair, and I see street signs into all the time. I mean, I live in New York City like stuff is not in great repair. The lines are all worn off throats. And so we need things like lines on the roads, we need pristine street signs. If self-driving cars are going to work, but that's not the world that we live in. And it's definitely not a world that we're going live in anytime soon. If we still can't get books to kids in schools because we don't have enough electricity in the schools. So it's about systems so self-driving cars do not work as well. As you think? I there are problems with the systems. And then there's also the problem of what happens when you take away the driver in a rideshare situation. Now, I actually do not. I do not think that there are any women out there who want to get into a riot an autonomous rideshare alone with some strange, man. In the middle of the night. So like, let's say you wanna take a ride share home after you've been like out at the bars. And he wanted to take a you wanna take her broad show back to Brooklyn because the ride share is cheaper than taking a by yourself. Well. Get into a car with strand man in the middle of the night is not something that sounds safe. So we still have the social problems of. You know of of people in the world. And right now, the reason that we can do rod shares, and the reason that you know, it's fine taking a rideshare home late at night. I is that there's a driver, and the driver is there to mediate any I any problems. So when you take away the driver, you're taking away and essential part of the social contract. And that also does not seem safe. Yeah. It's the same. When someone talks about an autonomous school bus to which is like this. Dr. Oh my God. Just. To drive the that's not as main job on earth. Would you want like fifty children on like in a machine all by themselves? If we don't let kids cross the street by themselves, why on earth are we thinking about putting them into a bus by themselves. It'd be like Lord of the flies in there. So the the way we got the hype around self driving cars, or, you know, self or, you know, ride share that has to do with so much that you've written about Marvin Minsk and just how like the history of just not people people not thinking about what did you think would happen? So I won't get that. That's all stuff that you'll have to read in the book. But before we go, okay. I understand that techno chauvinism is bad. But we don't wanna be Luddites. And you're not a lead I eight so talk a little bit about the the middle range, you call it like human in the loop systems. That's that's the positive pointed. This let's let's end with that. So there are two kinds of systems that the people generally talk about their autonomous systems in human in the loop systems. So Thomas systems operate without any human intervention. And so that's like the Facebook fantasy of oh, we'll bright some AI tools that will just like monitor. I you know, what people are doing on the platform, and we won't need to have humans intervening at all. Or that's the fantasy of own. I'm going to use my app to call Carr, a self driving car, and I'll just get in it. And it'll take me somewhere. And then it will I it will just like disappear at so that's the autonomous Anisi. Whereas what I would argue for is a human in the loop system an inhuman in the loop system. A human is an integral part of the system. So that's what we have in current current driving. So I maybe you have like a parking assist feature. In your car, like their cars that that have parallel parking systems that you know, it's very good. It's like a small and finite exercise in geometry, or there are cars that will beep when you when you're out of your lane. And that's also really, you know, some people find that really helpful. But so I would encourage people to think about designing systems or humans designing systems that account or human frailty for human fell ability that allow for governance, and that are on our systems that embrace humanity as opposed to systems that try and shove humanity outweigh and make the world more convenient or machines is humans are the point. Humans are the points. Meredith restarted thank you so much for joining us. Meredith regard is the author of artificial unintelligent how computers misunderstand the world. She's a data journalist NYU. Professor just check out her book. It's it's hardcover now. Coming out in paper book back paperback. It's it's amazing. It's about the stuff. We talk about on this network all the time. But just really well researched. Amazing and funny. Really funny. I loved out at a lot of a lot of parts, especially when you chose one of your partners in the startup us because of his laptop stickers. So. He so much. Thank you. Thank you. Take care. Have a great day. A great day. Thank you. And they give for watching a triangulation every week. We talked to the brightest. Most interesting fascinating people writing about tech working in tech solving the world's problems it really solving them which often means like these are very difficult problems to solve and let's just talk about them. So thank you for joining us. I'm Meghan Maroney. You can download the show at twit dot TV slash try. You can watch us live. We usually record Fridays at three PM. But you never know when you can catch us live on the streets. You can always watch that twit dot TV slash live and join us in the chat room, and we'll see you next week on triangulation.

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Could We Try Again? | With Marcia Cross

Modern Love

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

Could We Try Again? | With Marcia Cross

"Modern love the podcast supported by if you're looking for another podcast to check out tries circle round whether you're four or ninety four we all love a good story and you'll hear folktales from around the world on Circle Round W._B._U.. Our storytelling podcast for the young and young at heart subscribe. I wherever you got your podcasts produced by the island at W._B._Z.. You are lost hello from the New York Times and W._B.. You are Boston this. This is modern law stories of love loss and redemption. I'm your host Magna Carta. If Modern Love Author Meredith Hall had to point to the year that her life changed she would probably say that it was nineteen sixty five she was sixteen that year and pregnant with a son but more than two decades later in nineteen eighty-seven her life changed again and that's the year she writes about in this week's essay. Eh It's read by Marcia Cross. Marcia is best known for her work in A._B._C.'s desperate housewives most recently she starred in A._B._C.'s Quantico and the Youtube red series agrees youth and consequences. The call came in May hello. The woman said my name mm-hmm is an heard I work with a New Hampshire courts. I want you to sit down. Your son is looking for you. I have been hoping for this call for twenty one years and it came like a dream into an ordinary spring day. We'll take this very slowly. She said this can cause enormous problems for both the child and the birth mother but but I'm ready now. I've been waiting for years. I you're right letters for awhile threw me. It is devastating to the child to experience a second abandonment. I could never abandon him again again but it happens a lot. She said where is he. I can't tell you that yet. Can you tell me his name. I felt myself separate from my voice. His name she said is Ron. The sound was Electric Electric. My son had a name your son and told me his extraordinary ron is a spectacular young man three weeks later. A letter finally came through an there was a picture in closed my first sight of my lost child it was blurred and gray but here was ron serious. A strong jaw intelligent is career meredith he wrote. I don't know what to say. I don't know how to do this wrong. His handwriting was slanted along the page hurried. Uh I carried his note in my pocket reading it again and again as I stared at his photograph and called and said right back to him right away. He's very scared. Ask Ask him some questions dear Ron. My name is Meredith Hall. I live in east as Booth Bay on the coast of Maine. I have a son Morgan who's ten and a son named Zachary who seven we keep sheep and chickens and big gardens didn't tell me about your family. Tell me about your room. Tell me about what you like to do. I want you to know that I have always loved. You and edited are letters for revealing details. They came to US blacked out. My name is meredith blank. I live in blank on Acoust- blank. My name is Ron Blank. I grew up on a farm in blank in southern blank. My mother and father blank and blank are very loving and supportive are our ghost lives slowly took shape five months later and arranged for us to meet it was ten A._M.. On October Eighteenth Ninth Ron drove slowly along my dirt road. He glanced at me quickly. As I stood waiting on the porch steps I could see blonde hair her curls he turned off the car cut out looked at me and our is locked. He was thin athletic handsome my son he was not a child he was a young man wearing jeans a striped sweater and soft old loafers. He came toward me crunching the stone path. His teeth were brilliant white with the space in front. My father had a space like that. I moved toward him every day. For Twenty one years I played this scene. I had never known what to do and I did not know now. I was breaking joy and with grief too because here he was a grown man here. I was has nearly forty all those years lost forever. I reached for him held him to me. A stranger my son this beautiful Rufo radiant terrified smiling sun. We did not hold each other long because we were shy strangers to each other we walked up to the railing of the porch and stood three feet between us facing the river looking out over the coast of Maine. I could not find the question that would start our life life together. What I wanted to ask was have you felt my love each day? Have you felt me missing. You have known how sorry I am Damn. Have you been loved. Have you been happy you forgive me. I could come up with was. Do you like you each yes. His voice was soft soft and deep what year you well. I'm working my way through so I have another two years. His body was taught as if you were ready you to fight something off. His face was open his eyes enormous blue set wide apart. He had a scar across his chin. He was very very serious. He turned to me and smiled. Suddenly he had deep dimples. My brother had those dimples. We smiled then turn to the ocean again in overwhelmed silence to WANNA go for a walk I asked I felt deep happiness genus which stirred old sorrow into wild confusion. We walked down the dirt road Conversation leaping as we try to reconstruct the lost years this is the owl tree I said Morgan and Zachary are my sons your brothers I saw Ron tense for just a moment and then slipped back into the rhythm of our walking they find owl pellets here and we dissect them. Ron Said my mother let me play Hooky to go fishing with her mother. I breathed of course we for two mothers. We sat on an old bench above the undulating seaweed talking fast. I knew he would drive away that afternoon afternoon. I didn't know if he would ever come again. He must have wondered if I would want him to come again. Sometimes we found ourselves laughing twice Ron said I've never told anyone this before we climb back up the hill and I showed him the downstairs of our Homey Little Cape. Do you WANNA see your brothers rooms. I asked yes he said quietly he glanced quickly into their sunny rooms at their toys and books at his brother's lives live here with me where they've been loved safe not given away. We went back down to the kitchen eating tuna sandwiches we return to our stories the joy we felt right at that minute lying like a pond within our grief. Would you like me to tell you about your father. His hand stopped mid air a picture of our first day. I will never forget the image of his powerful hunger to belong. You look like him. I said he lives in Massachusetts. Who Sits I I was sixteen and he was a sophomore at Villanova University? We met at the beach. They came to see me. After you were born for five or six years showing up never asking any questions I watched watched him struggle to integrate this information into his twenty one year old identity doesn't matter anyway was all I could say uh. He let me hug him goodbye at his car. He called on Wednesday and said he was coming on Sunday. You can the boys be there. He asked I was overcome by his courage. It was the beginning of our new family. I ate with guilt about my two young sons understanding that I was asking them to take in stride the effects of my own enormous enormous history. They never balked when I told them they had a big brother. They immediately embraced him. They stood in front of wrong at that first meeting and grinned they climbed on him giggling like monkeys they studied every inch of him probing touching pulling going off his socks and shoes studying his toes and hands and back comparing their own the peered inside his mouth Morgan drapes his arm over his shoulder while they sat on the couch Zachary got in under runs arm Ron came every Sunday then for weekends and then for the summer I was stunned by my son's uh-huh capacity to include wrong to give him part of me and Ron took me to his family to this is my mother rose. He said this is my other mother meredith. He did not call me mom or mom or Mama like Morgan Zachary. He had a mother he had a sister Tammy. He adopted when she was too. He had a father hank astonishingly rose and Hank welcomed me as if they were happy I had come into Ron's life I felt as if I had stolen their son those months were confusing up heaving yet laughter often filled the house and we cried we rested in our deep love for each other and then we would fly apart in hurt or despair some days. We need to be reassured that this was forever other days. We fought for our lives. The lives that had worked pretty well before sometimes we couldn't didn't contain everything that had been lost. I never told my friends about this child. The grief and shame of losing him at sixteen had stayed David me all my life as a fiercely private sorrow now they argued with me telling me that Morgan Zachary should not have to pay the price of my history. Are you telling me I should send this child away again. I asked yes they said this isn't fair to your children but an older friend and disagreed telling me this is your son. Don't listen to them. This is a miracle. It is a fairy tale with a happy ending then it was October eighteenth again our first anniversary our days had found rhythm the up heaving emotions were quieting. My friend was right this miracle though each day felt fragile as if it all might disappear if we turn our backs still our old lives receded and our new family held together I had my son. He had his mother to mark the day I gave him. My small clay owl the only thing I had from those devastated years after he was born this is to remind you every day at this place in my life is forever. I said and he gave me an Acorn my renaissance he said his voice soft and and hopefully there were no patterns for how to do this how to hold each other safely and fully after a lifetime apart we could not plot out the future we were a family. We left each other. We needed each other that it was her only map <music> Marcia Cross reading meredith halls essay. I placed my son for adoption at sixteen. Could we try again. We'll hear more or from meredith right after this <music> <music> <music> he they're grown up person. I'm I'm Rebecca Shearer host of Circle Round W._B._Z.. Performed by actors you know and love like Jason Alexander and Jon Cryer whether you're for or ninety four subscribe to circle round on Apple podcasts stitcher or wherever you get your podcasts and visit us at W._B._Z.. Dot Org Slash Circle Round Meredith halls essay was published published fourteen years ago but the meeting she writes about happened long before that in Nineteen eighty-seven Ron is fifty three now and meredith a seventy but she still vividly remembers her pregnancy. I got pregnant nineteen sixties five. My family kicked me out. My Public School not only kicked me out but wrote in my record that I was expelled for pregnancy and not allowed to attend another a public school in the state because of that people think that it was <hes> well it was the sixties it was not the sixties in Hampton New Hampshire Hampshire there was a set of values and expectations that were exceedingly tight and strict and very judgmental. My mother was a single mother and I think that she just could not tolerate having me be in the town visible shaming her every day and she told me I had to get out. Meredith's parents were divorced. Her father agreed to take her in. When my father came came over to the House that afternoon he turned to me and asked me who the father was and then he asked if I wanted to marry sorry him I was sixteen and horrified at the idea and said no he turned to my mother and said while now what and that's when she said why she can't live here and somehow between the two of them with me not being any part of the conversation at all it was decided that the child would be given up for adoption? I don't imagine that there was any debate beat about that. At all of course over the years I wished that I had been able to fight fight against that. Tidal wave of Shane and had said something about can't keep this this child. Isn't there a way to keep this child but <hes> my family was not a family that was built to do that. Meredith says her family was determined to keep her pregnancy secret. My father actually he let me live there for the last four months of my pregnancy but he hit me in the upstairs and I was not allowed to be outside at all none of his. None of their friends knew that I was even there in the House House. After Ron was born meredith wasn't allowed to see him in the hospital not long after she was sent to boarding school. Headmistress agreed to take me providing. I never said a word for that senior year to anybody about this child I was <hes> bound to complete silence with not a single person saying to me Oh you had a child and lost his child child but meredith loved school and she did well there. Her mother picked her up after graduation expecting meredith to move back home and instead. I never unpacked my suitcase. I told her that I was leaving and I walked out and took a bus to Boston not knowing a soul in Boston and eventually figured get out away to get a job and an apartment and that was it I was off my new life. Meredith worked at at a restaurant and a copy store while she was living in Massachusetts. She also started dating Harvard student. She says that they plan to travel together. They were supposed to meet in Europe Europe before hitchhiking across India but right after her plane landed in Luxembourg Meredith changed her mind about that trip I don't no what happened I- untethered and I sent a telegram to him at American Express saying that I was going to go off on my own. I had very little money with me very very recklessly. <hes> hitchhiked through Europe selling the things in my backpack piece by piece and headed farther and farther east. I spent some time in Greece and in Turkey and ended up mostly in Syria and Lebanon spent most of a year there higher by then everything was gone. I had sold everything I periodically sold blood. I'd get three dollars for my blood and it would buy a visa and I just wondered I have a friend who looks back on all this and says this was my suicide walk and I don't think think that's inaccurate. I was so filled with grief by then my father had also kicked me out of his life or his his wife did and he didn't fight it over a very trivial event and <hes> having lost my mother and my father and losing this baby and losing my community I think that at that point I just felt that I had absolutely nothing else to lose and and nothing that happened could be worse than what already had happened. After a year meredith left the Middle East and hitchhiked back through Europe I had asked my mother to provide funds for a plane ticket home and her reply was you made your bed. You rasped in it so I did beg money on the streets of Geneva and I I managed to make enough money to fly back to New York and then Boston and <hes> just picked up there I lived in Gloucester for awhile and <hes> Madda young man there and we fell in love he wanted to build boats on the coast of Maine and I started living on the coast of me then I was very happy to be married to this man I felt loved by him and the the brunt of that sorrow and laws softens over time it always does and when I got pregnant with my first child with my husband I and I felt a joy that was unimaginable to me and we were a little island of extreme happiness and joy during those early years during those same years Ron was living one state away growing up in southern southern New Hampshire his adoptive parents were supportive and generous when Child and his mother was very fragile emotionally and could not protect herself and could not protect our children so as very very dark and difficult childhood for my son and somehow extraordinarily he maintained fat person that he is just a very very tender are and kind person after they were introduced meredith's relationship with Ron continued to grow he really it joined the family he eventually moved to Maine and I found a piece of land and we built a House House for my younger sons in me and then Ron actually bought adjacent land and built a house there so we became neighbors papers and although it was challenging to figure out the emotional landscape how do we transcend end the pain and the hurt and the questions that an adopted child always feels about why he or she was given up for adoption but somehow I think the depth of Love was very profound and I think we worked very very hard and and we managed to build a relationship that has been sustained till now ron and another of meredith sons live in California now our third son lives was in Texas. She says they are all very close and see each other frequently. Meredith parents have both passed away. She says that they never seem to regret. Their actions ends toward her. She's worked to come to terms with that but she doesn't call it forgiveness for me. The problem with forgiveness is it seems seems to be predicated on one person who was harmed and another person who did harm and somehow how out of the great goodness of Heart that Victim bestows some kind of forgiveness on the person who did the harm. I really don't I don't like the imbalance of that. It feels faults and that's very uncomfortable for me. I think there's there's something more akin to acceptance. That is what I've worked hard at. I actually believe leave that the difficulties faced when I was young with both my mother's and my father's out castings as devastating as those out castings writings were I think somehow they have increased my capacity to love in increased my capacity to feel real empathy and compassion for other people. That's Meredith Hall. She's a writer living in Cape Elizabeth Maine her memoirs whereas called without a map and she's recently completed a new novel more after the break <music>. Hi Modern Love Fans. Do you like how this podcast features talented actors performing a universal stories about love all its forms. Do you enjoy the beautiful music well. We have another podcast for you. Circle Round a storytelling podcast for all ages is releasing special pop up series this summer recorded live with musicians from the grammy winning Boston's Symphony Orchestra the stories stories are modern versions of folk tales from Australia the Antilles and Ghana and can teach you something whether you're four Hor ninety four subscribe to circle around wherever you get your podcasts here's Marcia Cross on why she connected with Meredith story at first it was just <hes> instinct that Jimmy to it and I think it's because I had emotional response to it <hes> but after reading it <hes> and sitting it with it for so long I think I think it was just the courage of both of these two humans to come together after <hes> makes me cry such a painful journey for both of them one to you know they both suffered a great loss so I guess it was just human beings at at the most loving most generous <hes> it's easier to back away and they went through it and I think that is those are our heroes in life life. Thanks again Marsha for reading this week's essay her projects include desperate housewives melrose place and Quantico and here's Daniel Jones Jones editor of the modern love column for The New York Times. I've rarely come across a piece that just has so much sort of going on beneath the surface and all these years of loss combined with this sort of yearning for the future yearning to reconnect and hoping that it happens but also the fears of <hes> of how it can go wrong just that sort of twist of hope and fear and love and connection it's just so hard hard sort of tease that out and the way that she writes about it using basic word simple description simple dialogue and the thing is just like bursting at the seams with meaning and heartbreak and the sort of love of reunification next week Logan Browning. I stumbled across Justin's online dating profile while waiting for water to boil. I had just gotten home from running errands A._T._M.. Mailbox grocery store and cooking dinner before sitting down to work. It was just after four A._M.. Message me if you want to talk about anything and everything until the wee hours of the night his profile said the phrase wee hours as it turns turns out means different things to different people for him a software engineer with an eye for design who can wail on an electric guitar. The wee ours are two A._M.. Maybe three for me. It's a little more complicated modern. Love is a production action of the New York Times and W. R. Boston's N._p._R.. Station it's produced directed and edited by Caitlyn O'Keefe original scoring and sound design by Matt

Ron meredith Morgan Zachary Marcia Cross Meredith Hall Meredith Hall Boston meredith blank Maine ron New Hampshire The New York Times Massachusetts Quantico House House Magna Carta Youtube Europe US
Meredith Moore: Managing Your Money During Coronavirus

WSJ Secrets of Wealthy Women

00:00 sec | 7 months ago

Meredith Moore: Managing Your Money During Coronavirus

"I'm jack how hosted the new Barron Streetwise podcast on business and investing this week I focus on Disney and how the pandemic might change theme parks movies and television. Here's Disney executive chairman. Bob Eiger just as we now. How do bag checks for everybody that goes into our parks? It could be an at some point. We had a component of that takes people's temperatures Disney beyond the pandemic on. This week's Barron streetwise. Subscribe on Apple podcasts. Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. Hey On for on a CA- dagger and this is the Wall Street. Journal secrets of wealthy women where women share how they tackle career money and the world. The Corona Virus Pandemic is straining the finances of millions of people from the nearly seventeen million Americans who've lost their jobs in the last three weeks to business owners large and small who've seen demand dry up to those who are still working but making tough choices about their expenses and their financial futures. Today I'm happy to have financial planner meredith. More help us navigate this difficult time. She's been a financial advisor for more than twenty years and she's helped clients manage their money through challenging life events such as a layoff divorce and death. She also specializes in helping. Women become empowered investors meredith. Thanks for joining. Us really excited to be here. Well happy to have you first. How're you doing? I'm doing really well. I mean all things considered my pantries full. I have income coming in so relatively speaking. I'm a really good place. Glad to hear so before we dive in we WANNA remind listeners. Who Find Tips from WWLTV or Meredith Helpful? That it's important to consult a certified financial professional for advice on your specific situation before making any financial decisions meredith. Millions of people have lost their jobs and many more likely to find themselves jobless in the coming weeks. It's tough for some people to stay afloat these days and if you lose your job can feel so overwhelming and it can be hard to know what to do. I so in general. What's a good first step to feel like you're taking some control of your finances? Great question so really. The best place to start is ironically the toughest homework item. I ever asked people to do and that is to come up with. What are your monthly living expenses? And when you really approach this project which people inevitably want to put off you WanNa look at what were your expenses before you got laid off or before. Cova nineteen started because inevitably a lot of us have had expenses that have simply gone away. Just because of social distancing Gyms earn open anymore for those of US ladies that like to go to the salon. Obviously that's off the radar right now. So I think we're reducing our spend whether we want to or not in many cases but truly first figuring out what was your spend before because if you lose your job this will help us figure out how much you need to still have come in or how much you'll need to pull from some account to make up that difference. What do I bring in? What is my income from work and in water my expenses going out so if you have enough income to cover your essential expenses without any froze great but if you don't have enough income if you got laid off let's figure out what your essential expenses are and then what's the difference between zero in calm and the essential expenses. So where do I need to pull money from Tom? Make up the difference and by knowing that difference number then we can figure out. Where do we go to make up that difference whether that's a bank account whether that's unemployment a whole slew of different options? I see some people who are still employed may also be facing pay cuts. You know other people who work in sales for example may have seen their commissions cut if sales have dried up listener. Cecilia from Boston is in that position. She sent us a text on our hotline. And she said she's a single parent and sales. She has a five-year-old child she's currently pursuing her. Mba part time and she's dealing with income uncertainty like a lot of people are and she's a single earner in her household. She loved to get some tips on how to manage her expenses during this time especially since her. Mba tuition is taking a significant amount of her income meredith. I think this is a really interesting question because when one of your expenses is really tied to future potential earnings like college tuition payments. How do you think of that expense right? So obviously a tuition expenses an investment in your future and what I would encourage. People is with many vendors whether it's an educational institution whether it's a credit card is getting touch with your vendors to find out if the work with you on deferring payments until the future. I mean it isn't just individuals. Those of us that are individuals that are going through this. This is not prophets education institutions businesses. And what I'm seeing is. Many groups are willing to make concessions and create deferral payment plans or give other options so instead of saying hey I just can't do my MBA. I would. I talked to the school. And then that way you can see if any options or there and be able to figure out hey. Is there a way that do I need to delay this or do I need to get a loan to cover this so you can figure out kind of next steps if you will and is that the same thing for something like your car payment or your mortgage as well give those lenders call as well absolutely and in really all the credit cards all of them in the banks are really trying to create options but not getting in touch with them is not going to be good? A lot of them are saying. Hey if you can't make a payment just please get in touch. Let them know the work something out with you. They want to get paid. And it's so it's in their best interest to take a little bit from you then nothing at all. How should we approach budgeting now if we feel like our job is relatively secure for example in the time like this? Should we still be looking for ways to cut back on expenses? Even if we're in the extremely fortunate position of being employed the way that I would approach that is not as much. Hey let's start eating Rahman instead of steak for dinner I would see back to our earlier. Discussion just by necessity with with isolating quarantining in all this to some vendors are closed so now my gym membership monthly outflow has freed up now. These other things have freed up. I want to take advantage of that now and put that in my emergency account in my safe cash. Now is the time to get to work on some of those goals. That you've needed to really do you've put off. You have a little bit of free cash but you're still able to live your life within the same sort of standard of living that you like. It's not ideal but again you're forced to so let's go ahead and start funding that emergency account. That's smart Meredith. We're GONNA take a quick break but when we come back. Let's talk about how to get help with our finances. And how to adjust our big financial plans amid the corona virus crisis social distancing slows the spread of corona virus. So if you have a fever dry cough and shortness of breath call your healthcare provider before going in more info at Corona Virus Dot Gov. Let's all do our part because we're all Hashtag alone together. Brought to you by the Ad Council. This is a really difficult time. We're all living through and one thing that's become extremely clear is that we can't get through this alone. We need each other for some people that may mean not only the emotional support of others but also the financial support too. What do you think of taking a personal loan out to help? Pay The bills when I look at right now. When we need money I think of it in terms of triaging where the best places to pull money and in terms of that triage like the personal loan is so far down. I'd be looking first at. Did I have emergency money to us? Did I have a CD AT THE BANK? Do I have some individual stocks mutual funds that I can leverage with minimal tax penalties. Even now with the cares act. The government allows you to pull some money from even an IRA or a qualified plan without paying a penalty for a period of time so even a home equity line so when you look at a personal loan that's on there but it's farther down the list so taking a 401k alone is a better option. Then it was before but it sounds like we still want to be a bit cautious. When we're doing that right absolutely right now. There's a there's a saying I think in the financial industry that if somebody has a major life event like you don't make any big decisions for a period of time and I think for all of us. This is a major life events and I'd want to be very cautious unless you absolutely needed the money and which bucket essentially that I would start getting funds from and fully understanding the tax the penalties and anything that would be associated with that and he interest payments back to your personal loan scenario so many people are expected to be charging up higher balances on their credit cards to survive. If we're in that situation what's the best way to minimise the long-term financial damage well in a great example on that Like literally two days ago Veronica. I got an email from one of my credit card companies that I have a zero balance on and they offered zero interest rate transfer from one of my other credit cards and so that rarely happens. I think for a lot of us and that was for two years. They were offering zero interest. And so for those people that need to charge it up. I would be looking actively at those offers and I would be also calling their credit card companies to see if something like that exists to see if they're willing to give them an extra interest rate and you know last resort. If you have to do it you have to do it. But I would explore. What are they willing to do? How are they willing to help you again? They're all hyper aware right now. What's going on in fully expecting balances to go up? If we want to borrow money from family or friends. How should we approach that conversation? That's a tricky question. Because nobody ever wants especially with parents wants to get in their business and there. They feel uncomfortable getting in our business. I work with many families with multiple generations I think before you have that conversation. I think you WANNA go in with a very specific. Ask you want to know exactly how much you need? What kind of terms you would like? Meaning how long before you can pay it back. Understand what interest rate you're willing to give them and frankly you're gonNA WANNA know like hey. What is the bank charging for alone? So is mom and dad. Are They GonNa give you basically what the Federal Reserve's give you or what you know. The local bank is or do you need to make it higher or they get to be willing to do zero interest rate loan. I'd go in fully prepared with terms interest rates payments excetera. Knowing that it's going to be a not a fun conversation but with a very clear. Ask and specifics on it and I think that goes for any family member but the more details and granularity that you can get them. I think it makes it a lot easier. I think people what I'm seeing at least in my practice is that people aren't mad about this. I mean this is just happened and nobody can control it But be very specific in your ask and have terms in which you're going to pay them back or secrets listeners. Or women with big plans but now many of us have to make changes. This may be the year where the money or life goals we've set for ourselves at the beginning of the year. Just have to be put on hold and that's okay and for some people. This may feel like the exact right time to switch course. We received this comment from a listener named destiny in Austin Texas. Take a listen. I was working in politics I was working for a candidate. Who just out of the presidential election and of course the corona virus happened so I mean the limbo mode right now and I do have an idea for a small business that I want to start but I don't even know if it's the right time to do any of that. So what do you think Meredith? Is now a good time to start a business? I'm going to say no and I'm going to tell you why right. Now we're in so much uncertainty and back to my analogy of if something big like a big event again somebody dies like you. Just don't make decisions for a little bit and look. I'm an entrepreneur. I'm here to tell you all about starting businesses but right now you're gonNA lose the quantity right now. We want cash. Because we don't know what's going to happen. We want access to our capital if we needed ZIG ZAG and so I would still wait for this landscape to play out a little bit before I went down a road of trying to start a business and better understanding what the lending was going to look like four small business once we get farther to the other side of of the curve. If you will with with Kevin. Nineteen what about going back to College Grad school or other educational plans that might mean racking up more debt right right and that's exactly correct so going back to school could incur more debt there have been some provisions with the cares act that have addressed some student loans right now but I really think that we're in a new economic world and we don't know how the education institutions are going to treat new tuition and things like that so look again for education but I- we're still in a little bit of wait and see game before you make any big commitments. Yep Gotcha and so the same thing. Go for other big investments. I know several people had thought about buying a home this year and now they're rethinking. That is that another big decision. We should just wait on. Because some of the mortgage rates on the flip side and the interest rates are so low that it could be a good opportunity for some buyers right. So I'M GONNA. I'M GONNA draw Lieberman exception. Their interest rates are low. If somebody is use the analogy of they still have a job. They still have good cash flow. I E income coming in and good expenses going out and you figure out you can cash flow the mortgage and you have enough cash to do the down payment but underlined the but but keep your emergency account intact like. It's a great time to buy a home because a half to believe things are starting to shift right now and there's probably some good opportunities out there it may seem inconsequential to worry about cancelled vacations but still. I know several listeners. Who Plan on taking a nice trip this year in either. Cancel it outright or postponement. Do you think it's a wise financial move at this time to re book a vacation for later this year. I mean there are a few deals out there so I do think that there's a few deals out there. I think I would make sure that I fully understand how long if I booked this now how long I had to cancel the reality is. We don't know how long they're going to. We're going to be sheltering in place and what various places in hospitality like how they're going to be opening. I know I personally have booked airbnb up in coastal Maine and I'm still on hold to see if I cancel or not. I would love nothing more than to get out of my house and go to the beach but also need to be really practical about it to like. Is this going to be possible? And then what? I'm what am I GONNA lose? If I end up canceling for sure. How do we reprioritize our savings goals for retirement given the financial uncertainty at the moment for example should we boost our emergency fund savings instead of putting so much towards retirement a think on the emergency fund savings? A good rule of thumb is having three to six months of your living expenses and the beginning. We talked about really figuring out what that is. And that's one reason if you don't know what your monthly run rate is on your living expenses. You don't know how much holding cash so if I'm spending ten grand a month that means I need thirty grand my emergency account up to sixty holding no more than sixty thousand but at the same time. There's a balance with short term cash with longer term opportunity. Obviously the markets have corrected in a very large way and to not still be contributing to say a retirement account. That might have twenty or thirty year. Run time before you even need it. You know that's also a really good opportunity and so deciding it's back to triage and everybody's situation is different. You need some sort of emergency account in even if you're putting more minimal amounts away for the long-term given how lower valuation some of the stock market is right now. I'd want to take advantage of both meredith if we can look for some personal finance silver lining amid all this bad news. What would you say that is? I think it's twofold number one. There are big opportunities to invest right now in the market and it's scary for some people. There's what I call a heart head. Disconnect like we intellectually know that market prices are lower in it. But it's scary to jump in but now is the best time to do that and I do see that as a silver lining. The second thing is a little more sort of satiric the fact that I think this is creating vulnerability and awareness for people in realizing. Perhaps they hadn't planned to the level that they needed to. Whether that's as simple as the emergency account whether it's have I completed my estate plan do I have enough life insurance? All these things have to be swirling around people's head but at the end of the day it doesn't matter people don't take action after all of this so my hope is is that it is creating more awareness on planning. Thank you so much for your insights meredith. Veronica had a blast but in time together. If you'd like to hear more secrets of wealthy women you can find us on apple spotify Google podcasts or your favorite audio provider. If you like US subscribe sheriff's on Social Media and give us a review and remember our hotline is Still Open. Any questions comments or tips on how you're tackling your career and your money during a corona virus pandemic call or send us a text at three one four two hundred five nine four seven Veronica Dagger. Hang in there secrets listeners. You've got this. Thanks for listening.

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Meredith Vieira: The Game of Reinvention

WSJ Secrets of Wealthy Women

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

Meredith Vieira: The Game of Reinvention

"Hi I'm Nick Trzcinski join me every trading day on numbers by Barron's at two minute morning briefing that helps you navigate the market you can add numbers by Barron's to to your flash briefing on your Alexa device or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts uh I'm Meredith Vieira and first and foremost I'm a mom a journalist by trade but I think what drew me to the business was that I love to tell stories to not be true to myself. Sets back women and men anybody. You really need to follow your own heart. I'm not the roadmap for anybody else. I'm here to do the best I can do and that's it. This is secrets of wealthy women from the Wall Street. Journal Helping Women Empower our themselves financially now Veronica Dagger Meredith Vieira is an award winning TV personality and journalist. She talks talks about her multifaceted career the importance of gratitude so meredith. I heard when you started your first official job you showed up. I've been overalls and that people lap. Would you tell us about that. Yes I fell into journalism. I didn't intend to be a journalist. I took a course a non on credit my senior year so this January of my senior year in college had no idea what I was going to do. When I graduated at all <hes> had sort of floundered a bit in college John My Mama? The actually sent me to Katharine Gibbs to learn secretarial skills the summer before because she said you're going to work when you graduate you know. You don't think you're going to come home. I mean she. She was loving mom at it that way but she knew you know. You're going to earn a living so she figured maybe I could do that and I took this course and the professor had us <hes> and create documentaries was radio and in groups and I was the voice on my group's Documentary Radio Documentary and the head of C._B._S.. Radio in in Boston Austin came in to critique them and when he heard ours he went who who's that and I. I didn't know if I was going to get in trouble because I was already. You know not the best ask at school so I I raised my hand. He said I need to talk to you and he took me outside the classroom and he said what are you gonNa do when you graduate. I said I don't know he said I do. You're going to have a big career and hired me on the spot to be an intern at C._B._S.. Radio starting like the next week and you know sometimes it's good to not know you know stupid and excited no what I was getting into. I said sure I can do that and I was told I got a call saying be prepared to requires. That's probably a lot which is going to be doing so. I'm thinking radio you know wires you plug in and I thought Oh all right not exactly what I thought. The job was going to be but I didn't know what it what it involves so I went out and I bought the cutest pair of overalls because I thought you know that's going to be cute and I went in. My job started every morning at five A._M.. And I walk cannon. They're looking at me like what are you. Why do you have overall on the didn't look professional ready turned out that they met ripping the wire? Service regarded goes yeah the copy from the machine so I mean you know. I think that they found me endearing. They decided well. She's we're going to give her a chance. They did and maybe because of that. I realized I've gotta work hard. You know I got a maybe harder than the average Joe and that's what I've done. What do you mean that you realize you had to work hard after because I didn't know what I was doing so I wanted to prove to them that there was something there you know beyond not knowing? Thanks and I and I just kind of took to it. I found that I really loved storytelling on it. I and I love telling other people's stories stories. I just found that really special. I'm shy person so it's great from. I like to turn the camera someone else I find that wonderful and I can sort of sit back. I'm a good listener and that was something I always was and so I just it felt right to me. How do you have such a public job? If you're a shy person I oh I don't know and I hate flying and I've I've flown all over the world for my job. I I just kind of had to get over it. I just had to <hes> you know it may be was therapeutic for me because it forced me out of my Shell <hes> more than if I had done something else which easily could have happened and I you now a lot of theater people that were very shy and then when they get the camera comes on they come to life. I've noticed that just interviewing people that that's the case. Maybe that was something with me edano interesting so I heard early on a news director told you you're never going to make it and he said I don't think you have what it takes. So what did you say well well. It happened on a Friday and I don't blame him actually for saying it in in the sense that I I was one of these people I'm such a perfectionist and back before you know when you just have plain old typewriters. If you made a mistake you had to rip out the paper and do it again and so if every word wasn't perfect on my own copy which wouldn't matter instead of like crossing it out or just moving on and rewriting it I would pull the paper out and put it back well. When you're into deadline that drives the boss grace and I would always just get on the yeah? This is my first television job in Providence Rhode Island and he called me and he said I. I don't think you have what it takes and I was like Oh and I went home. I grew up in east providence and I went home to my a little kid bedroom from growing and I'm sitting there crying and my dad comes in and he sat down he said what's the matter and I told him and he he said to me. You know he's might be that was always a thoughtful guy and he said well. Do you think you have what it takes some of them. Why do you care with this guy said you you know you're going to have this happen to you over and over in your life potentially people telling you you're not good enough? You're not this enough whatever it is. You're you have to in your own core believing even yourself and Sort of stormed into his office and by memories that I push him against the wall. I'm not sure not not bad not bad but I kind of got got him read. It gets wise. I don't care what did you say I do. Have what it what it takes to make it and I think he was so taken aback that he hired me in the moment and you know and we went on to be fine friends. There was no animosity acidy at all and and I understood you know he's a tough guy. He hasn't make decisions business decisions and I think he's the fell. She just is not going to long haul. Be The right person and I was. What's your advice for other women. Who are told no in similar fashion? I think exactly my tat said as long as you believe in yourself. I mean you have to work extremely hard sometimes to <hes> to prove the naysayers wrong but if it's not inside you you're never we're going to succeed. It has to begin with you and having that faith in yourself. How do you get there though I for me. It was just my dad's that it it just kind of turned me around and it made me realize okay. I'm sitting there. Can I do this and yeah why not and A. and then just doing it and that's that's the part that just is applying yourself. I think I think we're pretty capable of doing almost anything that we dream of if we just apply ourselves and keep going for it so I had read that early on you were a victim of domestic violence yes. I'm just wondering what you tell us about that. Sure <hes> it sort of crept up on me I didn't it began with just kind of verbal abuse and making me feel bad and I I think it might have been that. My trajectory was more than his. I was rising at a different. They might have been a little bit of that but I kept on making excuses because he would apologize and I would think well. Maybe I egged him on. Maybe something and then it led into physical abuse <hes> and it was just pip. I remember him at one point holding me down on the ground with my face basically threatening me saying well. If I ruined your face you know that's it for you and once what's being put in a shower with hot water and then thrown into the hallway I mean I endured a lot and I didn't know how to get away. My escape actually a job offer outside of New York that took me elsewhere and I went for it and I went for it because it was a good job but also so I I realized that was the only way I was going to get out of the situation. I didn't have the strength to walk away. I'm a so encouraged women in that situation. Tell somebody do something because it could have ended much differently but he did. How do you get the strength to walk away. If you don't have that other job well it's. It's very hard. Yeah I mean I in my case. I don't know what would have been <hes> but I do think sharing. It is really important letting somebody else no <hes> because you can feel so so alone alone in that situation and you're made to feel that you're nobody <hes> and and like. I said it with me it just kind of crept up you know I didn't I never thought it would escalate. I never look at me. That would never happen to me. I'm this independent one. I'm strong and it did and I blame myself. I blame myself south forgiving and all of that and my family loved him. I never told my mother. I just couldn't and I should have but I just couldn't. She had this image and I just let it be so when you're pregnant with your second child. Yes sixty minutes and the executive producer on U._M.. Him Go to know I had four miscarriages before my first child then and so thank you so I I was always hesitant went until three at least three months ago by to say anything so and right before I was pregnant with Gabe. I had <hes> miscarried twins so when I became pregnant I thought well. I'm not gonNA mention this done you at right now because it's going to involve me saying I'm taking six months off because that's what I was allowed and I was going to there was no question in my head and I was waiting and waiting. A couple of producers knew because I didn't Wanna fly so I said. Can we try to find stories on the corridor east northeast quarter so I did. I was doing a lot of Boston. Washington stories together and I got this call from dawn and he's in Paris. I need you to get on that the days of the condor because there's a story here and I gulped tonight. I can't dawn I'm pregnant and silence and then and he said okay I gotta get off. I gotta find somebody else but that was the beginning of the end really was how did that make you feel to be in the middle of this debate about work and family family and the almost the the poster child that time you know it was strange because I was just kinda trying feeling my way and for me. It came down to you know at the end of the day. Donna and I had a discussion Don Hewitt I had discussion and he was adamant that I would have to come back into a certain number of stories that I knew I couldn't and he was pushing and I finally said you know what that's it. I'm done. I have to make a choice. I'm done and I went home that night and I slept so I really really well which I I didn't think I would because sixty minutes had been for me the best job you could have in the business and it was dawn's baby so my baby was conflicting inflicting with his baby. That's what was going on yeah and but I went home and I thought I would have fallen apart but I really slept well which made me know my gut was is right for me. A few weeks later at a party in this woman comes up to me and she's like Oh after the news came out and she says you know what you've done such a disservice to two women by doing this you know you were you were the example of having it all and to do this as setting back the cause of women I thought in really that really upset me and but then when the more thought about I thought no no not to not be treated myself sets back women and men anybody. You really need to follow your <unk> own heart and make your own decisions there. I'm not the roadmap for anybody else. I'm just it's just old me doing this and take whatever lessons you. Want from it but I'm not here to represent women. I'm here to do the best I can do and that's it coming up. Meredith Vieira explains her path to reinvention and how she stayed true to herself hi. I'm Nick Trzcinski. Join me every trading day on numbers by Barron's at two minute morning briefing that helps you navigate the market you can add numbers by Barron's to your flash briefing living on your Alexa device or subscribe. Wherever you listen to podcasts you are listening to secrets of wealthy women from the Wall Street Journal heard for many years? You said you didn't get paid as equally alias. The guy is so I'm wondering did you ever close that gap and if so how well I don't know how close the gap I I probably Niger. I've done fine you know I did. I if you look at certain jobs where I had a male co host. The male co host made more. How did you handle that? He'd been there longer. I got a I. You know. I'm SORTA funny about that. I guess if I if the situation has changed I would've said I want the same amount but he was the lead anchor so it sort of made sense to me and in our business at least I at that time the pay was kind of great so I wasn't going to bitch over. You know whatever it's going to be fine. Your we're the original moderator of the view and I read when you took that job. You realize you needed to reinvent yourself. You took so how what was the situation at that time. It was scary Gary for me. <hes> I addition because Richard. My husband's suggested I do it I wasn't going to I thought I I've never done talk show. I'm not really into that. I <hes> <hes> but I was at that point a reporter who didn't want to report. I didn't want to travel so my three kids that at that point all little any simple what's the worst thing that can happen open. It might spark something else so I went and audition in a hotel room with Barbara Walters on yeah and I the first group was Barbara <hes> I was either joy or or Debbie in the first one and star Jones and me and <hes> I loved it they they signed me moderated. They didn't have Barbara do it and I thought so. I came home that night and I said I can't believe this. We actually had a great time and I never thought I got the job and then I did but it was scary because as a reporter quarter I never gave opinions. I wasn't a commentator I was a straight reporter and <hes> so it's a suddenly be asked to give your opinion was frightening to me I I. I've said this before but it's really true. It was almost like I had been caged now. They were opening the door and who knew what I was GONNA do. One of the first things I said on the air was oh I don't we're underwear. Who says I mean I wear a unitary but that went? I mean Oh my God. I still hear that to this day so but but it wasn't I didn't think before I said a lot of stuff. Why was your what's your advice to women who want to reinvent themselves? Oh Oh boy <hes> I've I've done. I know mine is so basic. It's you know do your homework. If there's something that you're attracted to learn as much as you can about it <hes> I'm all if if you can get your foot in the door and it's just interning and you're not getting a lot do that too no matter what your age is show. Show your enthusiasm and go forward. What's the worst that can happen like the game show? I'm about to you know <hes> host I did it. I almost didn't didn't do it because it's based in l.. A. And then I thought would be a crazy. You'RE GONNA you've been invited to play in someone sandbox. Go Go for it. Go have gone for good time. Who knows what will happen and here we are? I definitely hear more of a game show <hes> in a SEC but in the meantime I talk a little bit more about today. Show right yeah you replace Katie Kerr Ah yes when that happened and when she left and so many people said Oh the today show is going to fail without Katie and then you stepped in. How did you not let that get in your head like like who's going to be able to replace Katie talk you know I I didn't try to replace Katie? It's like when I did start a millionaire after regis that I would say those are big shoes films another not because they're not my shoes. I've got my shoes on and that's what I'm walking in. My shoes not reduce issue so that's I always try to think of of that in my head no matter what job I take on and my approach was has always been a big collaborator. I I love that approach and elevating those around you because because there's power numbers and a team a team that really works together well to me is unbreakable. So that's the way I approach today that we're a family and <hes> there's there's no we're all the same and I think that worked for me so there's a video that surfaced of Matt Lauer saying sexually suggestive things Steve. I'm wondering what you were thinking when he said that I never took it seriously we were like brother and sister and we teased each other all the time and if you've been in newsrooms uh-huh there's a lot of sexual innuendos that mean nothing <hes> there's swear words constantly I mean it's just a different environment and also in the morning shows that people who work those trenches. They're salty crowd a lot of them so I don't for one second that Matt meant anything by it. <hes> that whole situation is very sad to me because I never would have anticipated at all. What would you say to women who are on the receiving end of some of those comments? That may not be jokes well. If it's not a joke I think you call them on it right away and if it continues. I like to believe that you you go to H._R.. And they do the right thing. I know there. There have been cases where that hasn't happened and I know they're women who say yeah I open my mouth and all I got for it. Was You know I was iced out on. My suddenly wasn't getting things that I wanted just because I blew the whistle on somebody and so that's a scary thing and I get it but if you don't if you don't stand up in the moment and I it's funny for To say this inside didn't stand up to my boyfriend but if you don't that abuse is going to continue either with you or the next one because every time someone gets away with it. It's a it's a license is to do it again. So you're the second woman ever to win an Emmy for outstanding game show host a wondering how come Betty White was. I'm so proud to be after yes. That's that's very cool. So how come they're still aren't a lot of female game show. We were just talking about that. There are more now than there have been Elizabeth. Banks is doing a show and <hes> Jane Lynch has a show and Sherri shepherd is done <hes> game as well but it just has been a male dominated business. I I don't know if people just trust a male voice but it doesn't make sense to me <hes> but you know we did very well with millionaire and I don't think it's it's gender specific any of these games. I think a good host is a good host and what made me a good host is is really the same skill sets that apply to being a reporter listening learning to people. It's making them feel. You're messing with them. If you're a game show host but in a nice way you want them to know that you're there for them. You're rooting for them. I mean I wanted everybody who played millionaire to walkway the million dollars don't allow Georgia but <hes> but it's just it was it made me feel good when people one it just was was a very positive thing so I brought a little bit of that almost female energy to the role but I again. I don't know why there aren't more women <hes>. I'm just very glad the game to me for this. Show tells more about the show <hes> it's it's called twenty five words or less than the the goal of the show is for the contestant to get his two celebrity or heard to as liberty teammates to guess ten words using twenty-five clue words or less and you have one minute to do it and you gotta get them all and if you do you walk away with ten thousand dollars and leading up to that point because the two contestants they play against each other teams. There are a bunch of rounds that you have to you know you have to win to move on on so it sounds fun yeah. It's Oh it's so much fun. What motivates you to keep working. You know my friends say when I say I don't really want to go on working working and go. You're so full of it. You're just a workhorse. That's who you are. You've been you've been that your whole life you you know and I.. It doesn't define me because if I'm not doing T._v.. I'm fine with that but I think just always had that work ethic that my mom and Dad had my dad. My Dad is a general practitioner and he I used the hardest working person I've ever seen I mean he he worked. He he his patients. Many of them were Portuguese immigrants and that heard about Dr Active era in Portugal. Oh when you get to the states east providence was a very Portuguese area and they say look up Dr Vieira and my father. We'd have people mowing our law that I've ever seen in. My Mom and dad's patient can't pay in that or we had we had more homemade wine in our basement from these and yeah he was just a here's a great man great man but he really gave back to his community and he was extremely hard working and I think I got a lot of that. Just in my mom was a really tough cookie she was she was one of these people are. Catholic and she didn't like the monsignor she knew stuff even then and he realized that he was a misogynist and and so and she let to may meet kind of bear the brunt of that because for my first communion and she advocate all these blue flowers onto my first communion dress was supposed to be white just to say to him yes. Here's what I think a you but so I got him. Some of my spunk spoke from her because she was like she kind of giving it to you know to the the men in power so to speak yeah and but she was a homemaker how you you instill the work ethic and your kids. I didn't do anything they just have. It and I think it's what maybe some of it is just watching their parents and they've always you know they all got out of college and went for it and they're all self employed. Nobody calls up asking for money. It's crazy about tomatoes. Although we're there for them you know if they need us us but I think they there. That's just Kinda in them. Twenty five words or less the name of your new game show so in twenty five words or less give women advice. You Women WanNa know how to ask for what they want. What would you say to them. Be Confident in what you're asking for. If you don't believe it if you walk in with kind of can I have <hes> do again. Do your homework what the going price is. If that's what you're asking for parody and and just go straightforward to say this is my value. Do I deserve this. I want this and I expect those in the workplace and I I think people respect that I really do I.. I don't think in this day and age women need to be afraid. The way might have been when I was coming up where you were told. You were lucky to have a job in you. I knew when I started. I was a quota. I was told that they got the job because you're a woman and once you got in the they made it so hard for women to succeed because I think there. There's a lot of anger back then like. Oh yeah you got it over some guy just because you have a vagina you know <hes> which is part of the reason. I think I worked as hard as I did. I think nowadays his own your own your your worth you have to you have to believe it because you'll fall apart wants somebody questions. Christians that you just have to believe in yourself time now for your secrets. I'm Meredith era. The new host or twenty five words lessened my money. Secret is start saving the minute. You have your first job even if you're not making much put some aside and you'd be amazed how ten fifteen years now you're going to discover oh. This is a great nest egg when you need it. Just just pretend it doesn't exist and put it away to be sure to check out our e book based on the Secrets Podcast W._J.. Subscribers can download their copy of resilience. How twenty ambitious women use <unk> obstacles to fuel their success for free on wsj.com today. This episode was produced by Tanya Bustos on Veronica Dagger. Thanks for listening.

Meredith Vieira reporter Barron Boston Alexa Nick Trzcinski Katie Kerr Barbara Walters Katharine Gibbs official intern John professor Matt Lauer Wall Street Journal Providence Rhode Island Emmy Portugal Joe
Will AI Save Journalism  or Kill It?

Knowledge@Wharton

21:01 min | 1 year ago

Will AI Save Journalism or Kill It?

"Podcast is brought to you by knowledge award. Reuters the Associated Press and also the Washington Post are three of the most well known institutions in journalism that have also gone about adding artificial intelligence to their operations well in twenty sixteen the Washington Post produced eight hundred and fifty article using its helium graph system, including five hundred on the presidential election alone is credited with being helpful when it comes to fact checking and being more efficient the posted stated that their two thousand twelve election coverage produced about fifteen percent of the total content that they put out in two thousand sixteen. However, critics critics you say the move to these robotic reporters sometimes comes at the expense of real journalists and causes layoffs in the newsroom, also AI lack the intuition, accountability and self awareness that human has some editors push back. On that saying that this technology can be used to free up reporters to cover more stories. So as the future of journalism. Meredith Bussard is an assistant professor at New York university's Carter journalism institute and author of the book artificial unintelligent how computers misunderstand the world. And also joining us Seth Lewis who holds a chair in emerging media at the university of Oregon school of journalism and communication is also an affiliated fellow at the information society project at Yale Law School Meredith Seth thank you both them. Welcome to the show today. Thank you for your time. Thanks very much excited to be here. Thank you, so Meredith give us your view on the state of AI in journalism right now. And the impact that it is having. In journalism is very exciting. As you mentioned, it can free up reporters to do more interesting stories, but one of the things I think is important to keep in mind is that so-called robot reporting is not going to replace human journalists anytime soon, so hey, I is very good for generating multiple versions of basically the same story. So it's a really good and financial reporting where you're talking about earnings reports, and the story is don't really change all that much thoughts. Exactly. I mean, I think it's it works. Well for things that have highly structured data socio with them. So I think sue sports another example, college baseball college softball, these are things that the Associated Press did not use the cover and still does not cover with humans, but because of automating they can create stories that that turn those box scores. In into narrative news. So it's, you know, it sounds like humid reads like human reporting, but it's based on a kind of a template based approach to various narrative styles, you can take with with highly structured types of information. It's not a surprise with where the industry has gone over the last decade or so that there would be this concern of of bringing this type of technology into the industry, and then seeing a continuing of loss of physical jobs for people that have been reporting for ten twenty thirty years. I mean, I think the one of the things right now, we're seeing of course, that you are saying that the the decline in the number of jobs in journalism at the same time, they're saying the rise outta mation, but that's very much correlation and not causation. Of course, those things are very unrelated. In the sense that what newspapers news organizations generally are dealing with. If they've been around for decades is just the the the loss of traditional models of subsidizing the news creation because. Of the loss of advertising the row, especially Google and Facebook and sort of swallowing up a lot of digital advertising as as news goes online. So I think what you're seeing though is that there are news companies that are trying to experiment with ways of of augmenting coverage at a time of diminishing human resources. You know, I think one of the I think that's right. And I also think that one way of imagining how I works in journalism is by thinking about mad libs the children's game. So when you use an AI to write a story, you've basically right mad, libs and the computer fills in structured information. So every single college baseball story, I be censored information is basically the same. So you're gonna get the same story over and over again. And you have to think do you really want that is that actually what people come to newspapers for do they come to newspapers and media organizations to read exactly the same story over and over again, and they don't so there's a point of diminishing returns with a generated news, it's really nifty. But it has very limited utility. Then do you expect them? It will continue to be used more and more on the editorial side are should say on the editing side to be able to be that that one of those processes before an article actually goes to publication. One of the things that I'm really interested in in. My own research is using AI to generate leads for investigative reporting. So the one of the hardest things that reporters do is come up with new story ideas, it's much harder than anybody imagines to engage in that creative process and come up with something that is truly novel. Most of us come up with ideas that have already been done because they're easy ideas. So I'm really interested in using AI to trigger reporters natural creative processes so not to replace reporters. But to augments their existing abilities were joined on the phone by Meredith Broussard of New York University set Lewis of the university of Oregon your comments are welcome at eight four four Warton eight four four nine four two seven eight six six or if you like send us a comment on Twitter at biz radio one thirty two are my Twitter account, which is at Dan Loney? Twenty-one? We're talking about the impact of artificial. Intelligence in the world of journalism, your comments again, welcome on the phone or Twitter at your at your availability. Eight four four nine four two seven eight six six or on Twitter at biz radio one thirty two are my Twitter account, which is at Dan Loney? Twenty one I think that the expectation of some people is that at some point down the road, they expect to see a fully automated newsroom now, obviously there are elements of that already in play. But as you both have kind of seemed to to mention it's very hard in this type of industry to have something that is one hundred percent automated completely. I think that I think there's a tendency right now, especially with the all too conversation that's going on around the replacement. That's the word it's often use about a replacement of human labor by robots and certainly that may be happening in certain areas and certain districts to some extent, but I think we tend to overplay that and tend to assume that somehow these machines can take on more than they. Can at least for any sort of foreseeable future that we have because there are inherently so many creative processes the require human intervention human oversight. And I think to Mattis point earlier if it's if it's a truly automated newsroom, maybe the news. It's produces really kind of boring because it does tend to would probably tend to follow certain, you know, templates and tropes and so forth. And and alternately you're you're going to have humans. It will be overseeing the type of creation. I mean, just to give you one example, we've done some research recently on the question of liable in the context of automation and journalism. So if an automated story were to defame and individual who's responsible, and what does that look like, and I don't I don't think we're quite ready to to sort of figure out a way of suing algorithms, so human responsible woman or the other. I so one of the things I read about in my book is an idea that I call techno chauvinism the idea that technological solutions are superior to other solutions. And so when we so we've gotten very into the idea of techno chauvinism over the past decades. And there is this assumption that the fully automated newsroom is something that we're moving toward. And I would I would question that assumption because news is not the same as producing a car on an assembly line. And the idea that for whatever reason machine would be better than a human generating news or creating media is an assumption that I would challenge because when we actually look at the news or the writing that's generated by computers as I said, it's pretty boring. And then you throw in the aspect of the actual human flair and style that that a reporter may have in terms of covering a story, especially if you're somebody that is a columnist. Meredith columnists that is personal thoughts, and and style, and that is very hard to replicate when you're using when you're using automation. And it's not actually something that we want to replicate. I this is this is something that happens over and over again in the technological world. We imagined that having infinite quantity of something is going to be really fantastic. And then we got it. And then it's not so great. I would gut I'm sorry finish up. Well, it's a little bit like fast food versus slow food. I the massive amount of johnke content is out there on the internet. We thought it was going to be really great. But it turns out it's like eating. Fast food for every meal. And so I want us to think about okay, what would it look like to have a slow food movement for news. You know, what if we think about smaller batch RT's inally produced news, it's less? It's it's more expensive. It's not as efficient, but it's actually better. But there is also the elements that when you're talking about artificial intelligence or or algorithms you're talking about a human element that is behind that process to begin with that is kind of setting the groundwork for how you want that that that entity to work in a newsroom what things that they wanna look for. So there's there's still always going to be an element of human. No matter where you go with us. Definitely. And I think that that is the fundamental question that is being asked. I mean, maybe not asked enough for persistently. But, but I think we need to consider the various, you know, human elements by sees norms values and ethics that are built into systems. Just of automation journalism. But of course, all kinds of I think we're beginning to have that broader debate about for example, the role of platforms in society, and the kinds of bias that may be embedded in the way, they are structured not just literally in the kind of code that is written. But as Meredith pointed out just the assumptions that we develop around these platforms around technologies in terms of what they should or should not do in our lives. And I think it is similar way we have to kind of interrogate, you know, not just can we do automation and journalism book. But why why are we doing it? What are we trying to accomplish? And to what extent will actually make journalism better the work in and lives of humans better and so forth. I one of the things I had seen recently married at this coming out of China where they have an AA. I news reporter delivering the basically the network news each and every night over there. So you know, that's another side of the industry. But it is it does kind of highlight the fact that there are variety of different areas within broad. Casting in journalism as a whole where these elements are going to play a role in the years to come. You know, I think it's as that said we have to think about not only can we do this. But should we do this? So the news reader is really neat for about five seconds. And then it gets really boring. I mean, this is the keep coming back to write the the media, that's generated automatically tend to be kind of boring. And so we have to think about what what do we want out of news? What do we want out of media and tear point about the humans in the loop? There's been some really interesting work coming out lately about the hidden role of human moderators in is so many many systems like to sell themselves as being fully automated. And they pretend that there aren't humans in the loop. And that's really interesting to me because that's so much more. About marketing than it is about understanding how the systems truly work so Sarah Roberts, who's scholar at USC has a book coming out about the hidden world of content moderators on social media tarleton Gillespie has a book that came out last year about content moderation and platforms. And so it's really important to think about the humans who are behind. This ends in a systems. What are the jobs where asking those humans to perform? What does the trauma that comes along with being a human moderator on Facebook or Twitter or Amazon where you have to look at just the most awful filth that is produced by people, and is flagged by people or by automated systems, and you what is the what is the human consequence of the system that we've created, and I guess. The playing off of that. The question becomes is. Because of the fact that we're in this digital age and content is king. And and you know, the race to get a story out seems to be even quicker and quicker. How much does help that process? And I think you both have stated that in certain instances that it does really help kind of move that process along and others. It probably does not. Yeah. I mean, I I'm glad mentioned this because I was thinking about this as we've been talking this question of pseudo AI, and how there's a there's a kind of marketing trick to saying, you know, we're we've built an apple or start up. And and really it's there's a lot of either a lot of humans behind it. But but by branding is AI by having a element certain can carry a certain distinction that then allow them to get funding and so forth. So that itself is a fascinating dimension. And it's kinda worth asking. Like why why does why is it like that? And why do we tend to see it that way with regard to kind of production and how it can amplify the coverage that news organizations provide? I'm I think maybe wouldn't example where things will likely go in the future. Like at the moment, you have a processes that can produce the automated stories and highly structured situations like sports and finance and weather. I think if you look at g mail, and what it does right now in terms of offering sentences and words as you take your Email that could be a function. And that ends up in various word processors, including the type that journalists us in the coming years again, we can debate about whether that's a good thing or not. But I think it certainly the likely to just be part of text and writing in the future that itself could could could make it easier and faster to type certain stories, but we'll make for better stories. I, you know, I think it's course open question to to consider. You know? I'm just thinking about what it would be like if I had auto complete inside, whatever document, I'm writing I on thinking about what it would be like if I if there were predictive tax that we're trying to write a story for me. And I would turn it off. I I'm very enthusiastic about the about automated texture on ration- in certain circumstances. I think it's great for financial reporting very interested in the way, it's being used in. You know, kids sports coverage in politics. It's really handy because you can set a template to write an a local elections result story. And so you can push out the local elections result story the moment that you have it. So that's really great. But I'm just not personally interested in the predictive tax. That would get in the way of creativity. And does it end. Does it hurt that your belief in that area, even more? So now because of how people have kind of times gone away from traditional journalism, obviously, the the younger generations are looking for their news in in different formats than they were then say I was at age fifty two of years ago, picking up a copy of the Philadelphia daily news when I was coming into Philadelphia. Yeah. I grew up reading the reading the Philadelphia Inquirer and progressed from the comics to the kids page. That's what got me into reading the reading grownup sections of the newspaper, and I wouldn't trade that experience for the world. I think the kids nowadays are accessing news in different ways on different platforms. But they're still doing basically the same thing. I so I think we ourselves disservice by imagining that new. News consumption is different nowadays. Because kids want to know what's going on in the world. And they wanna talk to each other about the events of the day. And they wanna talk to the notes in their lives about the events of the day and them emailing each other links or texting each other links or making men it's the same thing that earlier generations used to do we used to cut out newspaper articles or and mail them to each other. You know, I mean, I still have elderly relatives who mail may things that they've cut out of the newspaper, and it's great. And it's exactly the same structurally as my friends who Email me links. Yeah. I mean, I I think that we we can kind of maybe overplay the extent to which things are changing, I think is his nicely described. I think it's also worth mentioning to just to get back to a point you brought up earlier this question of content and the value of of a given piece of content. I mean, you know, each story isn't, of course, not the same in terms of its potential value. And I think that what we're seeing with. If there's been one thing that has held true. The last couple of decades online publishing it's that, you know, it's obviously easier and easier to produce publish content, but the kind of individual value of any given piece of content seems to be worth less and less and less at least when it comes to advertising monetization, right? So if you're trying to make money through digital advertising eats, it just gets harder every year because as there's just more content out there and advertising spread across more content. And so the the value of any given piece as well as the value giving given click is worth less. Every year. So it is kinda worth what asking like, you know, is it is this just a race to the bottom in terms of producing masses and masses of contents automation. But, but as mayor the points out is it maybe as more boring content or not that interesting, or is it better for news organizations to actually think about doing less producing less news, but making it better or making it somehow more value added in a way, more investigative, right? More original more creative in a way that would actually meat consumers needs and not be part of this kind of sort of race to the bottom that I think we're seeing great to have you both with us today. Thank you Meredith. Seth thank you as well. All the best. Enjoy the day. Thanks. Thank you. Meredith resort. Assistant professor at the journal Carter journalism school at NYU. And also joining us Seth Lewis who is chair in emerging media at the university of Oregon school of journalism and communication many. Thanks to them for their time today for more insight from knowledge Morton, please visit. Knowledge dot Morton dot U, Penn dot EDU.

AI reporter Meredith Twitter Seth Lewis university of Oregon school of New York university Meredith Seth Associated Press assistant professor Facebook Washington Post college baseball Meredith Bussard Carter journalism institute Yale Law School Reuters Meredith resort
Mystery on Blood Mountain

Dateline NBC

00:00 sec | 10 months ago

Mystery on Blood Mountain

"I'm Lester Holt tonight on dateline first thing that really got my attention is messing plug mountain and you have to be aware of surroundings all the time because just never know it started with a frightening horror flick from the Eighties Crimson. Movie is. We're GONNA take some women into the woods and then they're gonNA be hunted down decades later. It was happening for real strange vanishing in the forest we begin to to get disturbing news just broke. Another tire looked like it had been corpus Louis flat if someone has her she's afraid we have a in killer running around loose in the national forest. Could this old movie hold the key to these new cases. It's film where he's setting women out in the woods. Do you think that's the template for what he does. That's what's so chilling. Anybody could survive. It was aired and if anybody could fight it was meredith Here's Dennis Nice Murphy. With mystery on blood. Mountain national forests are places of refuge Our folks that WanNa get away from the city and have a sense of peace with nature but it now you have to be aware of your surroundings all the time because just never know the splendors. The Americas National Parks Forest Lands Poems. Just waiting to be written by inch new visit from the cathedrals of the rockies to the quiet glades old growth of the Appalachians. It's here in the parks. We have the promise of stepping out of the hubbub of our chattering daily routine. That was the kind of serenity Meredith Emerson sought on the Crisp New Year's Day in the north Georgia mountains. Not More than foothills really for a young woman who eloped trail climb her native rockies. It was two thousand eight. The young sales assistant set out from Buford Georgia with her dog L. A. Roomy Julia currently or from college days had slept in that morning she had left me a note just a little note on a chalkboard took Ella went hiking not wear not when not one. I'm going to be back back so it wasn't really anything out of the ordinary meredith like Rumi. Julia was a dog person. She doted on L.. Her black glad mixed since finding her the rescue shelter she had two dogs growing up and she wanted one of her own so she kind of talked about it and research. What she wanted hidden definitely wanted to rescue dog and finally found one went out loved her brought her home and it really was the light of her life Julia? The roommate didn't know that meredith an Ele- were heading forty miles. North to Blood Mountain chattahoochee national forest despite the creepy teen slasher remove name. Blood Mountain is one of the most popular places to hike in the southeast. The famous apple H.. In trail two main takes off from just south of here back in Beaufort. The roommate spent her New Year's Day with friends and did notice. That merited hadn't come home until the next morning a- back to work day. She would leave Ella in my room and I would take care of her in the morning And I'm like Oh L. is not here. It's that was a little strange to me. And I called her cell phone and went straight to voicemail and I thought maybe shows that work when when did you become anxious Jillian. When I got to work she worked with a good friend of ours and the friend called me and said Meredith stingiest for work and mayors always at work? She was the first one at work. Reliable Meredith wasn't where she was supposed to be. Julia called the sheriff socks then she and some of meredith other other friends assembled a search part. Maybe she'd twisted her ankle hiking and taken a tumble. They started with that note on the chalkboard where I'm going hiking would naturally be. We had a few ideas. We took some books that she had some places that she highlighted in kind of deserted driving the French poodle the car at trail heads. She'd mark in her hiking guides. There was four of us in the car and we were trying to tell me a call Park Rangers and anybody that may have seen her her car and then a friend of hers found her car called US and said I found it and there was snow on a car parking area at the base of blood now and we drove Casaus. We could there and just you know just that sinking feeling when you first see it up the blood mountain feeder path to the Appalachian Trail But no trace of meredith or so by nightfall. The search became all the more urgent as a cold. Front moved in temperatures on Blood Mountain plunged below zero at daybreak Thursday. Now the friends were joined by deputies from the local sheriff's Office John Caygill just shy of retirement. Was the agent charge for the Georgia Bureau of Investigation States. Top cops received a request from local agency to help with a missing hiker. The case of the hiker missing for two days didn't look good to the season detective because of some disturbing items that had been recovered on the trail. What were the things that were found? Addison trail area that you thought were alarming. A couple of water bottles dog leash and Police expandable baton. This is a piece of professional gear. It is it's just a metal pipe that is expandable. You see almost every uniform police officer in the nation carrying these things did those artifacts the water bottle the the baton found together. Tell you a story at all or suggests something ominous yes and we found those items in an area where the ground had appeared to have been undisturbed then we became concerned. Possibly a struggle took place there. Meredith water bottles ellas leash and signs of a struggle. Nothing about about the scene. Look good to the veteran law man especially that expandable police baton that was found he called in health. Aw eventually partnered with over eighteen or nineteen police agencies to help search from that. Her friends were naturally beside themselves. You know your heart just broke because you think something happened. Somebody had a weapon and stuff was there. She's been abducted and it was so hard because it wasn't something that we could talk about until we could actually prove that the cops commandeered a park building headquarters. We begin getting information pretty quickly. It from people who had hiked the trails at day right remembered her remembered her and we began to get Disturbing News of strange looking individual with meredith who also so had a dog some nail description. This other person. You hear strange looking Just a wiry kind of guy older guy older guy we even developed a vehicle description. White van the lead on the van came from this photo taken by a hiker in the blood mountain parking lot the night before Meredith Emerson Jason went missing a beyond. The lookout advisory went out for the guy driving a white van accompanied by his reddish dog. It is going to be a white male between the ages of fifty and sixty years old approximately one hundred and sixty pounds. It was described as he has bad dental. He had a dark reddish colored Retriever we put out that information through the media in Atlanta and actually got a call from someone who said I think coming to see it when we return. This mysterious stranger would prove to be stranger than anyone expected. I just turned. Wipe out the blood. Leave my face and Meredith. Emerson had not been the only one missing in the forest. If she's still alive and someone has her her she's Afraid Meredith Emerson and her lab L. A.. We're two days missing on Georgia's Blood Mountain early. In a freezing January of two two thousand eight her friend had alerted the authorities and people from all over greater Atlanta were scouring the hiking trails so many volunteered. They couldn't use all all people just showed up and just said I have a daughter who likes to hike. I have a sister who could have been meredith easily and they just volunteer onto their time. The search in the national forests had become something more ominous than a lost hiker incident. Meredith had been last seen in the company of an an unsavory looking. Stranger law enforcement was about to identify the tip came from John Taber Atlanta businessman. He was watching the continuing continuing news coverage of missing Merita during his morning workout when they started giving the description on the person of interest Myers really parked up. I think I just turned white. It one point. I felt the blood. Leave my face Taber. The businessman thought this has got to be Gary Hilton. Hilton was a guy who'd worked on and off for him for for years. I as a telemarketer then as an independent contractor in deciding business he even lived for a while and this little house that taper on. What was the thought? That was taking shape as you're listening to this. The first thing that really got my passion is is where the event happened where she wanted missing blood mountain. I knew that was a place. He liked to hang out that he had a dog with him and most importantly was the evidence that they had found the same Hilton. Always had expendable police Baton with him the tip and and a name quickly led to a Georgia driver's license for sixty one year old. Gary Michael Hilton. Investigators showed the photo to hikers. Who idead him as the scruffy mystery? Man Seen with meredith on blood mouth. The manhunt was on. We put that name and face out and that's plastered all over the Metro Atlanta area is the AP be went well beyond the Georgia border. Hilton's name and picture were all over the regional news. lightbulbs began going off to the south around Tallahassee Florida's capital when people there so his photo on TV the search for Gary Hilton was about to widen the mystery. Man Person of interest in the Meredith Emerson case looked familiar to people who thought they'd seen him just about the time they learned of the sad case of another woman who'd gone missing Shirl dunlap unearth and mother. WHEN CHERYL DIDN'T TURN UP FOR CHURCH ONE December Sunday in two thousand seven and then Mr Sunday school class red flags went up and next door neighbor and friend? Tanya Land Sunday morning at Church. I'd turned around and looked at her usual spot. She wasn't there and you didn't teach your class and immediately. We knew something was wrong. Because that's just not like her. Everyone who knew her agreed. Forty six year old Cheryl was reliable. A woman solid interfaith breath and set fellow nurse friend and prayer partner again. She always liked to hear What we call our praise reports like like something good that happened with a patient or a CO worker? When Monday morning rolled around in Tanya still hadn't been able to reach Cheryl? She walked next door. That went back down to our house and saw that the dog was at the House but the car was gone so I called her off several times and they hadn't seen her shoes daughter-in-law Tabitha called the sheriff's Office to report. Port Missing Wellingtonians. Such show for work. I knew there was a problem after that missing. Persons report was filed. The friends heard about a car. That looked like Cheryl's roles spotted on the side of the highway leading into Tallahassee. They headed up there a sheriff's car on and immediately they said deputy up there and just took over from that point apprehensive. Rancid you out. Yeah I was very uneasy. I knew that there was something wrong. Juries car was parked well off the highway. Florida Department of law enforcement agent. Any what it was pretty clear from the beginning that that's not someplace that she would parked it as well as the tire looked like it had been purposely flattened on the vehicle Michael and abandoned Kara slash tire searches law enforcement. Volunteers began fanning out into the adjacent fifty. Seven seven thousand Acre Appalachia Coal National Forest. All of them with dread in their hearts love will be devastated. If something like this happened to my family and so that's why I want to be up here for in. There were massive searches in town. Thousands of people showed up to comb the woods looking for her. It was clear very early on that. This was unusual for her. She would not have gotten in the car with someone who just was not the person who would have disappeared. Tallahassee Democrat senior writer. Jennifer Portman covered the story. We're talking about North Florida. In the panhandle area. People are found by their schools by their family by their churches and Sunday. School teachers with children and Grandchild. Don't go miss. That's exactly what her friends and family were as baffled as the police by Cheryl's disappearance law enforcement was trying to put the pieces together when they looked into Cheryl's background around nothing jumped out at two sons long-settled divorce no boyfriends then on Tuesday. Four days after she was last seen the cops got her bank records. Something was up. We found where some ATM activity had occurred in Leon County. That's big break. Yes Sir and then upon viewing in that video in Leon County It was clear it was not her. This was a male subject using her car. Use disguising his face so we knew at that point definitely that it's probably not going to be a good outcome from stunned. The disguised man made three separate withdrawals of seven hundred dollars. The ATM tap was was in downtown. Tallahassee near the campus of the State Youth Miles from where Cheryl's car was found so you and the team stakeout the ATM machine stay there. Several days is day and night watching the ATM and he never came back to that one. The search for Cheryl stretched on for weeks and a lot of us went out on our own and searched the woods and went to places. We thought you know she could possibly be the more time goes on inevitably. I just just. It's just because I'm thinking if she's still alive and someone has her she's afraid. Mid December two weeks after Cheryl disappeared some some hunters out training. Their dogs in the National Forest noticed a vulture circling in the sky above them went to check it out and discover the body a female email body missing its head in hands a grizzly fact not released at the time. I think this is someone trying to conceal the identity. It took a DNA sample from Her to th- brush to identify the remains. As those of Cheryl Dounreay someone called and said Laura. They found the body. We pulled with over on the side of the road. And just you know just there was it be wearing this was there. It was surreal You know the thing you hear about movies and it was so close to home that in our small community that something like this could happen now with cops in Florida looking hard at Gerry Hilton in the Dunlap murder and counterparts Georgia convinced that he'd taken Meredith Emerson Authority started hearing about yet another national forest homicide this one in North Carolina. Then you gotta be saying all your team investigators. What do we have you? That's right and so now. We're we're really wondering who who we have here and more importantly which made it coming up. We have a killer running around loose in the national national forest concern for Meredith deepens but her friends know something that man on the mountain. Couldn't Kato and Blue Belt in judo. The Dow if anybody could survive it was her death when dateline continues and we're was merit hope Emerson. Could she still be alive. Somewhere out there in Georgia's Chattahoochee National Channel Four's and did the twenty four year. Old hiker have a prayer if she were indeed in the clutches of mystery man. Gary help the search on blood mountain went into into a third day. We had the hope. I mean we were there from Sunup to sundown. Plus I mean we were there through the night in the cold and all the searchers and but if anybody could survive Evan Meredith and if anybody could fight somebody like that it was meredith. Merida's parents had flown in from Colorado joined. The searchers Peggy. Bailey a family. A friend was their spokeswoman. Let me tell you something. Meredith Emerson could do anything. She is feisty she is strong she's tiny and petite one hundred twenty pounds. But let me tell you. I have every hope that anybody could. She can run those mountains. She she's a strong person. If anybody can survive this she can. The missing woman was deceptively strong. Not just an experienced hiker but an accomplished martial arts enthusiast as well and Lavelle an Akito and blue belt in judo on apparel absolutely I mean she would fight you and chewed actually come home and tell me you know I threw this two hundred and twenty pound man man. I beat him up today in class by now with half of Georgia looking for this Gary Hilton authorities outside Tallahassee Florida to the south. We're we're wondering about his connections with the missing woman there. It was then at the detective. Scott solid information about another killing in a national forest. We're in our command post and detective walked in and said that They had a case took place in North Carolina Bobbing Husband and wife that the the wife had been been murdered in the Pisgah national forest. That detective was working an unsolved case. That had cops in North Carolina bewildered. David Mahoney is sheriff. Europe Transylvania County beautiful place with an ominous name that has nothing to do with fangs. Dripping blood we have wonderful attractions here. All those things along with a slower pace of life is what brings folks and keeps folks here folks like John and Irene. Brian do after raising a family retired here far from the brutal maybe winters of upstate. New York and close to the hiking trails they loved Holly. Bryant is the youngest of their four children. They love the outdoors when when they were first married. I used to go out hiking in the mountains. They would take us hiking and as they got older it take the grandchildren not hike into the. Bryant's had a lifetime of outdoors. Experience had hiked all over the world. My father completed the Appalachian trail. Oh which is two thousand miles from Georgia to Maine. They traveled extensively to a New Zealand and author here up author America America especially the southwestern and northwestern United States in late October. Two months before Meredith Emerson disappeared the couple set off on a day. A hike in the five hundred thousand Acre Pisgah National Forest. No one heard from them for two weeks. Always let us know if they were going on one of their many trips etfs so I was totally unlike them to just disappear their son. Bob Flew in from Texas. The newspapers were around the doorstep. He broke into the home And and founder breakfast was still out on the table but obviously many days old and he knew something was terribly wrong. My brother searched. He went up and down every little back road throughout the park. He found their car at a trail head in the national forest. By then Sheriff Mahoney's office was involved. Rescue squad began a search assuming that there had been some medical problem problem or something that had followed an opponent in my heart. I I knew that wasn't the case they there's just no way they would both be both be hurt like that. They were very very experienced. Fortunately it was not very long. After we began service that we discovered the body of Ms Brown was a sense of finality. I knew she was gone already. But that little glimmer particle hope was extinguished English when they found her body Irene. Bryant's remains were located thirty yards from where her son had come upon the car. She had been bludgeoned to death. But where was the husband. We began an even more extensive search for Mister Bri- that surge really involve the entire area of his national forest within hours of discovering Irene. Bryant's body detectives learn three hundred dollars had been withdrawn from the Brian Accounts using an ATM card in Ducks Town. Amount Tennessee had a picture from the machine. The man they had concealed his head and face that was able to successfully use the bronze ATM. Whoever was making the withdrawal it wasn't seventy nine year old John Bryant but time and geography were working against the law man? We spent weeks weeks everywhere in that entire area. We did everything from vehicle patrol ATV patrol horseback on foot everywhere Sir John Bryant had seemingly vanished from the face of the Earth the FBI posted a ten thousand dollar reward for Information Buck. The Bryant case went cold and until Meredith Emerson loomed on the LAUMAN's rate on our late investigator began following that case and immediately there were some mm-hmm similarities that we saw between the two cases. Both of these incidents occurred own for service land. We really felt like that. The two were you probably can make. We may go years without a homicide. This was very very different. Do we have a killer running around loose in the national forest in Georgia. The searchers looking for Meredith Emerson and her dog L.. On what mountain were hoping and praying that they weren't dealing with homicide do everything we can do to make. Sure that She saw if she's up there that we get out of there and get her out of there safely If he's not there to do everything we can do to eliminate that as okay Possibility and then continuing investigation in their Georgia authorities were composites. A profile of Gary Hilton was starting to look like a person of interest. Not only in the Meredith Emerson disappearance case but in at least two unsolved murders in the national forests. Their findings were deeply trump coming. It might a movie hold the key to this case. Prince movie is going to take some women into the woods and then put they're going to be hunted down. It's Gary Very involved in the scary. Throughout on blood mountain there was still no trace of meredith emerson her friend Julia. And the searchers found no news to be good news. It might be a good thing that you know. She might be somewhere warm their dog you know and and somebody might just have her or or something like that kind of makes me feel a little better Knowing that that we haven't found anything here yet well. Hundreds of volunteers and deputies deputies scoured the forest for clues. Detectives were trying to get a handle on Gary Hilton the suspect in her disappearance and who was by now L. A. person of interest in at least two murders John Taber Hilton's former boss gave investigators. What background he had on? His Eccentric Loner Employees I had known him for nearly a decade. The only interest that he had in life seemed to be his dog and going out camping with his dog. UGH for extended periods of time and in the Wilderness. Hilton's Dog Dandy had been at aside since he started working for Taylor. The former boss had come to regard Hilton. As a hair trigger triggered nutcase. He often tells stories of going to parks with his dog and he would end up in altercations with other pet owners. It was always the same story. He reprimand the other dog owners behavior. Then the other dog owner would get angry at him verbally or physically assault him so he was always the victim for the First Nine Years Hilton worked Eh citing business taper called him as a good employee then something seemed to snap. Things started to change quite dramatically starting in two thousand and seven and what happened that he just wasn't doing any work decided to go and just see what was going on over there. It was a very bizarre same house on his physical appearance. was quite different immediately smiled to show that he was missing several teeth and he went on to explain that he had actually taken a pair of pliers and removed some some of his teeth and he said he enjoyed doing that. Because it frightened people taber fired Hilton. Who then turned around and claim Taber owed him money by mid summer summer? Two thousand seven the citing guy said he feared for his safety finally threatened to kill me he made it tomato very clear. Jaber took those threats series. I immediately immediately are myself with the Glock nine millimeter and then a are fifteen. Assault rifle started driving rental car. So he wouldn't know what vehicle I was. He was your boogeyman absolutely. It was a terrifying ordeal not to know what was going to happen to point driveway. And have someone jump out of the bushes and maybe assassination win. The former boss finally went to the police with his story. It seemed to do the trick within a day or two. He had packed up all his belongings and moved on but all the stuff in the van into yes. John Table was relieved to see the Hilton in his rear view mirror but he was nonetheless puzzled by the change. That had come over the man around someone for nearly ten years and it's full there. There's there's nothing that ever happens. This suggests a demonic violent personality that that apparently materialize. Somehow Taber had hard hard to the Gary Hilton Picture veteran Atlanta criminal defense lawyer added more. Sam Rail had defended Hilton years back on some minor. Ish beefs wait. Did the jury trial on a drug case possession. He was accused on a misdemeanor of acting like A charity and he really wasn't a charity eight and he raise money to help the little children. Of course he pocketed it the job to speak of or anything that he did professionally. His job was Scamming gaming that's what he did. Mostly you knew him as conman basically right he was a little con when he got tripped up. Go call on you. He did real. The lawyer. Royer wears two hats. He's also a movie producer. Not Hollywood but more of the released direct to video school. This is his latest released. They don't do shooting gory. What's genre try not to make it? Gory but at the end of the day A little blood little sex little Little violence can't hurt as it turned out. COPS on the Meredith Emerson case were particularly interested in rails first movie deadly raw. He made it back in. Nineteen eighty-five the assistance of his scam. Artists Client Gary Hilton. Trump's the movie is That we're GONNA take some women into the woods. Then we're going to befriend those women and then put big can be hunted down. Is Gary involved in this sense of like a script writer. Anything that formal Gary Is. He's helping me throughout and then helping the star figure out how to be a serial killer. These ideas you guys are not going around. Gary has a dark dark side sometimes here and there he wants to get involved in the movie but he wants to make darker and more horrible meet like to have more blood more Gore have rape have have more killings things like that. I thought we toned it down and made a better movie. He suggested that we do it up. Woods it helped me find some of the locations. We found the cabin. That cabin used in the movie happened to be in the chattahoochee national forest. They just north of where Meredith Emerson went missing. He's around the table. Are you guys collaborate on this film house he behaving around Your Your Group of movie when the movie was being made. He's animated but interesting so he's not a loner. No He's a lunar. He's a psychopath. He say sociopath path he's always trying to get one step ahead of the law. He's always doing something a little bit wrong but all my clients they do that too. It sounds like you're talking about kind of a charming guy. He was charming. He was personable. He was a fellow that you'd WanNa meet which are all skills you need to be a successful con. Oh man if you're gonNA keep an edge but the lawyer in movie producer had a falling out with Hilton over of all things. Ah Dog dog seemed to be important to them. Dogs were very important to him. He wound up with my dog but I had Dog Look Nice little golden retriever. We had them in the backyard. All all of a sudden I come back one day. The dog has gone. Of course. I'm very upset about it. Then I find out that Gary took the dog you still as their profile of Hilton became clear and became more trouble. Investigators looking for him and Meredith. Were desperate for any lead on his whereabouts and they were about to get eh. I answer my cell phone and I heard his voice. Didn't believe it coming. A trap is set to lure Gary Hilton from the hiding spot. Trying to play a cold and a dramatic new league could lead police to meredith. She could be alive alive and we just can't let when dateline continues Police were convinced. The missing hiker Meredith Emerson was under the control of Gary Hilton. Somewhere in north Georgia. The more they learn about the survivalist oddball who was a person of interest in two murders national forests elsewhere. The more they feared for her. Uh a friend of Meredith family appealed directly to Hilton have that he realized that this would be helpful that this that his heart would be softened pendant turned to To come in for with information so please please have the courage to come forward. We we need you there next. Delete the big one came from an unlikely source. The suspect himself three days into meredith disappearance. Gary Hilton called his old boss. Taber I answer from my cell phone and I heard his voice couldn't believe it he pretended enacted as though nothing was wrong. So he didn't let on to you that he was the subject of a man. Oh absolutely not tape acted as though he knew nothing about it which apparently was the case. He apparently had no idea startled. But Thinking Fast Taber tried to Lure Hilton to an agreed upon location with the promise of money was trying to play cool so I didn't know anything about what was going on. I told him that I would give him a check for eight hundred dollars and we discussed place to leave the check. Were you at that place that he knew to come and show up and it was throwing my objective to get him to a place where authorities could apprehend him. The trap was set a building owned by Taber where Hilton had lived for awhile. The SWAT team was dispatched. What Hilton Fall for the pickup? Some money reuss and what about out the missing woman in your gut did you. Meredith was still alive. You know may snared hope Emerson and we all hoped that She was alive life. Has the manhunt continued. There was a glimmer of hope Friday morning. Four days after meredith vanished the US. Marshals Service traced activity city on Merit as bank cards. The card was used at a local bank fifteen miles from the abduction side and then again fifty miles south of the abduction abduction site. And then the next day eighty miles. These were attempts where no money was taken which suggests what suggested that wouldn't give them the right pen which also suggest S.. Maybe she's still alive that's right investigators. Meanwhile had been able to trace the phone. Gary Hilton used earlier to call his old boss. John Taber who'd set a trapper him. That call was made from a restaurant about fifty miles from Blood Mountain Hilton. It seemed was moving south towards Atlanta metropcs. PD Swat conceal themselves in a near Tabor's building. That was the drop point. Were old boss had promised Tilton he'd leave him. Eight hundred dollars stake at the location. You're surveilling it and they didn't show no show no show we're still looking and wondering where this guy but now we have fifty miles from blood mountain. The tip line line kept ringing with Leeds. Good and back then four days in a Friday afternoon a shopper called to say that she found a black lab mix wandering around a supermarket supermarket. Parking lot is surprised to see any dogs running loose in the parking lot and then to find out that it's the one that meredith Was was turned on. This has pretty big surprise in the shot. She took the dog to an animal clinic where the vet was able to read and identity chip implanted. Inner sure enough off it was ellen but where was her own merit now. Events were moving quickly right away. Came another tip or we get a call from a female acquaintance Long Hilton stating that. She just hung up the phone. He called her and Money and she commented that she said. Don't you know the world's looking for you any any hung up Hilton called from a payphone at a convenience store near where meredith dog had turned up. You have a living pet missing owner handphone which is somewhere in the vicinity of this. Yes guy you believe Israel while the agents are searching in an area that convenience store they look in the dumpster and and it was in the dumpster we found Mayor de identification or purse bags of bloody clothing. And at that point we felt liked it this this was not going to turn out his widow then around eight. That nine still Friday not far from where Taber had set the trap for Hilton more than one. eagle-eyed citizen noticed a man emptying a white van. Happy up here here. Here's a white van. Rodolphe wandering around coals lit up nine one one. This one lasted for twelve minutes back. I had the person of interest in missing woman case. Is that this Chevron Gasping on Nascar done manage their van is here her dog dog and I saw the man's face and I've been watching the news and I know I'm being all this stuff other than getting around. Like he is guilty of I take him down if you aren't there right there. Also copped the back of the got him now here careers. Gary Hilton was under arrest. Detective swarmed over the Filthy Astro van Dan and inventoried his possessions looking for any clue to Merida's fate. GB spokesman updated the media. It's a missing person's investigation right now and that's how we're pursuing it Imported key might be Any knowledge that Mr Hilton has take me inside your situation room when you get the news. Atlanta's got him. We're very pleased with the fact that now we have this man But we we can't lose sight of the fact we don't have meredith yet and and the possibility that she she it could be alive and we can't let up and so we attempt to interview him. He refuses to take your questions cops had. They're mad but not meredith. Could they crack him get from him. The story of what had happened in the national forest. ooh and your decades a law enforcement agent if you ever had a session of interviews like this one he was very straightforward and was very nonchalant Saturday morning. Five days after Meredith Emerson vanished on Blood Mountain. Gary Hilton was charged with a crime against her kidnapping with bodily injury. Hilton soon was in custody. But he was uncooperative. SIPTAH giving his interrogators nothing on Meredith whereabouts. And what he'd done with neared its middle name is is hope. And that's exactly what the Lord gives us for her so we are hoping that we're talking meredith in the present tense and that we will. We'll be finding her and that she will say come home to us. The searchers in the field meanwhile shifted their focus from blood mountain to these woods. Called Dawson forks. About thirty minds to the south it was from around here that milkmaid made those phone calls to his ex-boss remember by then Merida's bloody clothing had been retrieved from a dumpster. It's not a good sign at all. But as long as there was the most remote chance that she was still alive. The search was going to continue but lead agent. John Caygill new. These vast woodland's very very well and he knew the odds of finding needles and haystacks as he saw it he had only one option repugnant as it was and that was to cut a deal with Gary Hilton Sunday morning we got him a lawyer and how went up and had a had a talk with her lawyer and essentially laid out our case. Hilton's lawyer then then conferred with his client. The district attorney was brought into the loop ended. Deal went down. Hilton would plead guilty to murder. Because that is what it had been. And then he said he'd lead investigators to Meredith's body in exchange for taking the death penalty off the tape. Nobody in law enforcement likes to make deals without holding their her nose. We had to do it and you know we. We needed to find meredith And given the circumstances I would do the same thing now. Now some guessing agent the situation in your interview room is Gary. You told us what you did to her. Now where'd you put her yes and He told us a manacles. Hilton was loaded into vehicle and he led lawmen down a trail in Dawson forest. Down there on the road that I will be approximately forty yards or a hundred twenty covered by leaves and brush ahead. We'll be missing. Where's the only reason? By the way was renewed Morenz equally clearly shaken agent. Cable told hold it Lanta about the tragic outcome at approximately seven thirty this evening. The body of Meredith Emerson was discovered wooded area the specific information and given as to the location of the body was given to me by Gary. Hilton the kidnapping charge was antidote. Mitch Hilton is being charged. Wouldn't count murder of Meredith Emerson. He has been taken into custody and brought to our attention center where he's being held in your decades a law enforcement agent if you ever had a session of interviews like this one no no. He was very straightforward and was very nonchalant about the whole time. So you get avenue point. Were well like Meredith. I forty dollars mine and kill a lion and after his initial confession Gary Hilton. The man of stony silence became a chatterbox spilling out a story. That it's sicken detectives who thought they'd heard everything. He began with Meredith abduction here on a hiking trail on blood mountain. He said that he ambush meredith and her dog gala. She came down the trail. It was a struggle and meredith with her martial arts skills. Hilton tells it very nearly got the better of him twice. She disarmed him first taking away a knife and then his police baton control above though not into that he's real good with their hands and had no hesitation about Ryan with everything and we had and Hilton said they scrap so hard. They tumbled off the trail separated by a few yards from that drop police baton Merida's water bottles dog's leash objects importantly very soon to be recovered. Meredith meanwhile meanwhile kept right on Hilton and again and her got me I've been back into the crashing Just a few minutes. I would be people that now that I would have picked it up. You talked about fighting with meredith that she almost took him. I don't really believe everything. And he says but that part I believe. There's no doubt that she fought and and you know. Maybe it's a little bit that kind of gives you a little smirk to know that you know she almost. She almost got him. She gave him a run for his money. And I'm sure that he may have thought I should have maybe chosen somebody else else eventually. Hilton War Meredith down by then they were way off. The main trail Hilton tied his captive to a tree and then double back to that site site where he'd been stripped of his weapons. The bayonet was gone lost on the forest floor and a hiker had already picked up the police Baton Hilton returned to meredith pill and now skirting. The main trail Hilton led meredith back to his van a trail head parking there. He secured her with chains in the back of his vehicle and then proceeded to steal her bankcards from beneath the front seat of her car. Hilton drove off heading gold miles north to an ATM in Blair's Ville Georgia. He told Detectives Meredith had given him or pin numbers. Back on Black Mountain. Did Meredith suspect. It would be all over for her if she gave him the correct numbers in any case she'd given him that information and more. She's you still follow me. It'll be welfare. Hilton next. Tried to use MARANISS cards at a bank fifty fifty miles south in Gainesville Georgia again. No dice he made camp that night with his captive in a remote spot in the forest. The next morning Hilton attempted to use Merida's Bankcard still again at an ATM. In canton Georgia nothing. They returned to his hidden campsite. He held meredith all together in the woods for four days. And what nature of Man. Is Gary Hilton. Well listen to the confession tapes to what he says about Merida's dog Ella. Hilden says he knew. The PAT had that identifying chip when he let the dog go in the supermarket parking lot. If I want to ensure that no one would associate the a dog with her. I would have killed the doll. But there's no way I can do that. He was too much of a softie that. Kill the dog as he explained it. But poor. Meredith Ellis owner never never had a chance beginning. Yes you dodged told you. Once you've done it you gotta kill her get call. Then there's no the solution and that now. He was in his unbelievably cold. Recollection of the crime. Hilton said he told Meredith. He was going to let her go after four days of captivity wig packing up and down taking her Releaser Instead Hilton. Went to the van came back with a tire iron and bludgeoned into Meredith Emerson to death in an attempt to thwart investigators. He decapitated and poured bleach over the body. This gruesome beyond belief. We've Yes for what reason I don't know Hilton had confessed to killing Meredith Emerson. But what about those other cases in the national forests a woman in in Florida the elderly couple in North Carolina. He would not talk about anybody to us because you have to wonder when the switch was thrown because man oh I know how many decades does this go back. I don't know do people just wake up. When they're sixty one is starting to do these kinds of crimes? The way he did you know I would think not coming up how a terrifying movie fantasy morphed into real light do you think that's the template what he does decades later. That's what's so chilling dateline continues. Willie geist here this week. On the Sunday sit down. PODCAST I sit down with rapper. Actress Comedian Aquafina to talk about her huge year with roles in crazy rich Asians and oceans. Ocean's eight get the podcast now for free wherever you download yours continuing with our story meredith. Amerson went for a hike with her dog. On Blood Mountain in the chattahoochee national national forest then suddenly vanished just browse. We became concerned that possibly struggle took place days later a survivalist named aimed Gary Hilton confessed to her murder. He talks about fighting with meredith that she almost took him shallow Scott Him. She gave him a run for his money. Investigators investigators fear. There are more victims. Could this old movie hold the key. To these. Other cases there scenes were reenacted. Their staff talk a lot of similarities. That's what's so chilling here again. Is Dennis Murphy. Marriage Emerson went missing New Year's Day less less than a month later Gary Michael Hilton appeared in a Georgia courtroom and pleaded guilty to her murder. Merida's parents were there for mother. Susan Addressed Hilton. Believe he has nothing more than a bully. And a weak minded coward prey on others fancies himself or survivalist. Well anyone can see experimental man on the run. The state honored the deal. It made with the killer no death penalty and he was sentenced to life in prison. Hilton admitted nothing beyond beyond the Emerson murder. First Time anything like this alert nine turning answering by now investigators from a half dozen southeastern states beats as well as FBI profile owners were rummaging through Hilton's passed by the time he was captured he wasn't much more than vagrant and a van but his past was more complex complex as an army veteran. Hilton at earned an associate's college degree gotten a private pilot's license on the GI bill and been married three times before the wheels apparently came off true crime author. Fred Rosen has written more than twenty five books including trails of about. Hilt underestimate him foolish. This is a very dangerous. Purcell according to Rosen. He was shaped by a number of factors Hilton. Who never knew his is biological? Father was raised by his mother and stepfather. A Horse trainer from Argentina. Do Juvenile authorities run into young Gary Hilton along the way when Gary is fourteen years old he takes a gun and he shoots his stepfather. He doesn't kill him but he wounded wounded very severely and he's institutionalized. They put him in a mental hospital out in Miami Hilton went to High School in Hialeah Florida late in a rock band and eventually joined. The Army Akaki Hill made sure that the cops who arrested him knew of his army service back in the sixties with a unit armed with tactical nuclear weapons. I had not handled nine and Hilton Brag to the officers about his conman criminal past anyway in my life except for the US. Army okay. On Wall Terry from seventy three ninety three okay for twenty years. He's collecting money for charities scam artist. He's a scam artist. Exactly and what about Hilton's dip into the movie business that semi slasher flick deadly run that he helped make in the nineteen eighty s in this where he's setting women out in the woods and killing him hunting. If you like your little outfit I picked up for your Barbara. It has definitely you. Do you think that's the template for what he does decades later. Yes I do. And that's what's so chilling to me about the the whole thing because in the millennium he'll make he'll make art into reality. You can hear the echoes of this. You're already beginning to see the lack of conscience. It's in his interview with the Georgia. Bureau of Investigation. Hilton put forth a grandiose sense of himself a renaissance man of many hats on builder and minority. Hours my heart is my lie and my art. If we're these kind of a philosopher lawsuit king isn't he. I'm an artist and you poor dumb cops don't have the luxury of being able to think the big cosmic thoughts that I do. He almost feel sorry for them. That they can't keep keep up with him when he starts going about this. That and the other thing hoping for crumbs of clues in those other open cases murders in the national forests the agents. I wanted to keep Hilton talking where you where did all of these days. I know what you're getting out of the unsolved murders. Gary Hilton. Thinks he's smart. He Gary has an I q of One hundred twenty and that's considered to be way above average or even though they mainly eligible origin. Is that I alone up. Donald anyone including you do have to actually started. He'll rattle on as long to someone. Listen to him on any topic under the Sun. Virtually yes pick a topic any topic. How about vulcanology a donkey? No the superbowl kaneohe under yellow. Seventy people volcano when eruption basically wind it become the the Holy See more of the US under several bash and destroy the air. The fast talking Flimflam man was on display display. Hilton's home videos found in his band. Here's Hilton giving a cop. That stopped him some live. You tell me what you're the law man. You are the law. I'm going to check it out and if that ain't the law and you're wrong I'm not talking to nobody. I'm falling and I'm suing because you're interrupting my work. You hear Gary Bragging about how smart Mardi is how well He. He does his job but at the same time. What you hear is an incredible narcissistic personality? Which is typical of serial killers killers? He sets up the camera. And there's Gary going hundred seventy-one pounds starts pumping up his biceps. Like he's Arnold Schwarzenegger. I mean he's very narcissistic. So why word. Detectives Enduring Hilton self-centered ramblings clearly. They were hoping he'd blurred out something about his involvement in the other unsolved cases in the national forests but Hilton was admitting to nothing. You basically telling me that you know Twain Nine Ninety he escaped the death penalty in Georgia. But despite his denials Al's Hilton remains the prime suspect in the murder of that elderly couple Irene and John Bryant. Mr Brian's remains had been found in January in the North Carolina align forest as a result of the investigation in Georgia. I was absolutely convinced at that. Point that Gary Hilton was our suspect but there was another open homicide case that seemed to fit Gary Hilton. Like a custom made suit down in Florida. The body of Cheryl Dunlap had been found in a national forest her. ATM card stole the remains decapitating. Detectives thought that Fit Hilton's M. O.. Two T and Gary Hill still applying. The smartest kid in the class defied Florida to come after all that time. All that money they spend A million dollars uncleaner independent there may and then Then another two million get there and then another eight million to the death penalty and get around and get around to executing seventeen years from now when a seventy eight years old decrepit anything. They too tough Laura. Prosecutors at turned out would be the match of his defiant Tong. My belief is this is an evil bad person in there ought to be a consequence in life to evil acts. Coming up justice for Cheryl the hunt for evidence begins. She took the floors up the seats out. She dismantled that Van Suspected serial killer Gary Helton had already pleaded guilty to the murder of Meredith Emerson in the Georgia mountains but he cheated the executioner there with a plea deal that that led police to his victim's body to the south authorities in Florida were convinced he had murdered. Nurse and mother Cheryl Dunlap who's partial remains have been recovered. Two weeks before Meredith Emerson went missing Hilton was defying the authorities in Florida to make charges stick. been a million dollars. The man then Then another billion to get death Leon County Florida. State's attorney Willie megs had had heard enough and indicted Hilton for the murder of Cheryl dunlap. Willie he's gone away for life he's going to be leaving Georgia corrections in a pine box. Why does Florida even need to to go to the expense of a capital murder trial? My belief is is. This is an evil bad person and there ought to be a consequence in alive to evil acts. I don't think murderers ought to be cheaper. The more you do with the Dunlap case looking like a carbon copy of the Meredith Emerson Murder Order you might think the case would be Gimme for the prosecutors. But far from it they would not be allowed to introduce Hilton conviction in the Emerson murder despite its similarity Cheryl's nor his connection with horror movie deadly run or the fact that he was the prime suspect in the murders of two elderly hikers in North Carolina. Florida Florida Department of Law Enforcement Special Agent. Any White was part of the team charged with making the case months earlier the cops had developed a partial chronology for Cheryl dunlap dunlap. While the Saturday she back we started receiving calls. People saying we saw our Walmart we seller here. And so we started backtrack those just trying to get the time on. The investigators knew that Cheryl's morning had included some shopping in Tallahassee cashing a check at the bank and using a library computer to send some e mail to her son in the army they even had a last site. Witnesses identified Cheryl as the woman peacefully reading book here at a Popular Spot called Leon sinks in in the national forest the couple that I interviewed that saw her there at the sink. Holes was very adamant that that was her but the trial had gone cold at the Tallahassee the ATM or a disguised man had withdrawn money using Dunlop's bankcards. A month after Cheryl went the be on the lookout for Gary Hilton during the Meredith Emerson. Listen investigation had the phones in Florida lighting up again when he started hitting the news media are citizens here started seeing him and immediately recognized him and started calling and that tip line Catholic one caller remembered an odd guy with a handsome red dawn. That site led investigators go down another national forest path and to another discovering more remains positive. It was Mr Hilton described. The Dog The van and So that was one of the camps where the bones were found deep in the national forest. Five miles from where Cheryl dunlap's torso had been and found. Investigators came upon a charred piece of skull the Bony Fragments of human hand in the ashes of a campfire. They were badly burned camp firepit kind of thing he'd actually done a pretty good job of covering it up as well. It covered it with strong measures to to tidy trax. The fire had. I've been so thorough. It was impossible to extract DNA from the bones. Whoever killed Cheryl Dunlop had gone to extraordinary lengths to eliminate any physical evidence? So you think that this is someone trying to conceal the identity chills must have gone up your spine when you heard the details of what had happened to yes meredith. And how closely match Cheryl yes. Yes sir both taken out of the woods abducted her. Both decapitated assist. You know early similar. There was one thing about tracking the guy with the red dog that they had going doing for them. States assistant prosecutor Georgia Koppelman. Fortunately for the investigation. If somebody saw Gary Michael Hilton they remembered him. He's Scott that kind of a face or presence that you don't forget once we had the description. We had tons of witnesses coming forward while doing the legwork that was turning up more witnesses says putting Hilton in the area aging white screened deadly run the horror thriller about tracking down and killing women. The forest that Gary Hilton had worked on years before there are scenes that you see in the movie that were reenacted in his actual spree of crimes not in every detail but there's definitely a lot of similarities and investigators has had those home videos of Hilton to screen as well last time he was gone he that was out here. I don't think here. Let's followed you now. Watching the videos was very Educational because I saw him by himself. I saw him with other people. People like this restaurant manager suffering a ramp from Hilton about his delivery Uber. Drivers you tell these guys with terror driving. Has He received any driving safety education. I saw him With law enforcement in many different sides leaving I'm getting Outta here. God Almighty thought he was the smartest bear in the woods. Definitely smarter than the officers. Apprehending definitely definitely they now had numerous Hilton sightings around where Cheryl dunlap vanished but despite all the investigative work by multiple sheriff's offices and the FDLE. No witness came forward to put him together with Gerald on the nurses remains were in such poor condition they told investigators nothing about how how she died. But the thousands of other pieces in the puzzle. Investigators were trying to song. Hilton's Van Jammed to the roof. With hundreds of items was trucked worked the Florida Department of Law Enforcement Crime Lab our crime scene analyst spent day and night literally weeks a mess. Right she she lived in that van for weeks. She dismantled that van. Every item that was in it was taken out And then the van itself was dismantled. She took the floors up the the headline or out the seats out every scrap of paper every piece of hair. All that evidence from the van was added to items recovered from the dumpster route side Atlanta where Hilton had been captured. A Georgia cop on blood mountain with a metal detector had found the Bayonet Meredith Emerson had wrestled away from Gary Hilton now. Now investigators in Florida theory. What was interesting about that? Knife is before we knew of Mr Hilton before he had killed Miss Emerson and been quite our analysts in our lab showed us. This is the style this what the knife is GonNa look on cameras and memory cards were found inside the van the techie detectives in the FDLE computer lab working overtime trying to unscramble deleted material from the evidence and deepen in their DNA lab more than seven hundred samples. Were being analysed in an attempt to find some link between Gary Hilton. And the late Cheryl Dunlap had Gary Hilton can manage to outsmart them all wood floor to be able to make the case against four years after Cheryl dunlap's death it was finally going to try coming up sweaty and your heart. Speeding dramatic case begins. How would it? You can just see the jurors so there is a new. When Dateline Continues Gary Hilton's trial for the Florida Murderer Cheryl dunlap began in February? Two thousand eleven a little more than four. We're years after he pleaded and skated the death penalty in Georgia. But there was no chance of a plea deal in this tallahassee. He might be doing life in Georgia but this. This was a capital murder case. If convicted Hilton could die. I- lethal injection remember lead prosecutor Georgia. Koppelman couldn't tell the jury about Hilton's conviction in the Meredith Emerson murder or mentioned it was the prime suspect in North Carolina. Double Homicide Nortel the jury anything about that Slasher laforest movie deadly run. That he helped me MS dunlap found herself in a situation and ultimately came to to an end. That is something that we only think about nightmares. The state built the brick and masonry of story on the time line investigators had so painstakingly painstakingly assembled an attorney hiking with her husband in the national forest. Leon sinks that Saturday morning remembered seeing Cheryl. I looked at her and I said it's peaceful as full out here isn't it and she looked at me and she nodded and she smiled and then she exited warlock then a parade of witnesses testified to seeing Hilton out and about out in the national forest. There was the motorists to notice demand near Cheryl's car with a flat tire. How confident are you that Mr Hilton was the man that you saw at that vehicle? Oh very confident. Others remembered dent man's good looking reddish. retriever mix states. The picture of Hilton's Dog Dandy Exhibit thirty-seven was looking to be the state's key piece of evidence quite sure that's the dog. Another witness recounted a creepy conversation with Hilton country store. And then he said it. Isn't that bad about that. Girl that was murdered an asset. Yes it is he said well you look like her and I said well I don't think so hunters to identified the old guy with the Nice doll ruler flagging his emergency yourself. What the prosecution couldn't tell? The jury was exactly how Cheryl had a county medical examiner had to work with severed remains that had been exposed to the elements. He thought for at least a week or more. Are you able to tell this jury how this woman died died November not a cause of death but what the prosecution did have was forensic evidence Galore hundreds of items recovered from his van from Hilton suspected campsites deep in the woods of two items here duct tape with hair and another piece of duct tape Or masking tape. Prepare one of the items crime scene. Techs recovered was Hilton's video camera. He tried to delete the images on. It are unable to see the entire device. So I'm able to recover those previously as lead files department of law enforcement lab experts had been able to salvage the Audio Hilton did not want the world to hear and with good reason. This is Gary Hilton. Two days after Cheryl dunlap's disappearance singing into the camera microphone and gassing with his dog. Dan Dan mm-hmm when it sounded as though he was confessing to the dog. A hushed courtroom listened to Hilton's is model. The Bar I gotta go the states. Forensic people introduced evidence about Cheryl slash tire a tool mark. Experts said the bayonet recovered on blood mountain up in Georgia was an exact match for the sharp object that caused the puncture down in Florida. But the state say good night evidence was without question the DNA work genetic expert. Joe Ellen Brown spent two years testing more than seven hundred and fifty pieces of evidence in the case Brown told the jury she was able to match Cheryl dunlap's DNA. Hey To blood on two of Hilton sleeping bags and on the shoelaces of his hiking boots. The major donor does match share on the frequency of occurrence. So this major contributor Dini profile is one in twenty nine Quadrille in Cook Asians twenty nine with how many's yours fifteen zeros and with that after six days of testimony the prosecution rested now. The defense holding a very poor hand would have to a fight for Gary Hilton's life it's case was brief. Lead attorney says Super Cold One witness an expert on to mark identification who testified by videotape. Arguing that the bayonet and evidence could not in her opinion be determined to be what had been used to slash victims tire subjective. Yeah it's based on the Individual Examiners training inexperience. He defense was trying to impeach the testimony of the State's expert. Who you said Hilton's bayonet had slash Cheryl dunlap's tire and that was it for the defense? Gary Hilton declined to take the stand. Do you wish to testify one. In sixty three million. In her closing argument the prosecutor reminded the jury of those big number DNA matches. What are the odds that somebody else's DNA is on that sleeping bag? Other than Cheryl dunlap won an eleven trillion Caucasians. I need Subaru's closed for the the defense was far more vigorous than her limited witness list might have suggested we have absolutely no evidence not direct evidence. The Mr Hilton come in murder. The jurors began their deliberations Koppelman and her boss waited for them to return there. You've done a lot of trials. Is this just another day at the office. No no it's never when you're waiting for a verdict or palms are sweaty and your Heart's beaten and you're very nervous Harris and I can tell you I've been doing thirty five years now. It's never gone away from me. There's this It really liked. Throw a while. You're waiting on them to do you until you hear it read. It's it is tents coming up. What would they decide with? The jury found his. This follows the Virgin A. Hey it's Craz you know. Sometimes it's good to just take a step back back from the day to day onslaught of news and take our broader. Look the issues. That's what I'm doing each week on my podcast. Why is this happening? Were exploring topics ranging from school segregation. The climate change. Well the way that I think it is. Climate Change will be to the twenty first century. What modernity west of the nineteenth century it'll be the central subject of questions about economic justice us? Everything that you care about in the world will be affected by climate and digging deep with guests uniquely qualified to analyze issues from mass incarceration to race relations. As you know for the first time in our our history at the national level whites are on the verge of losing their majority status in twenty years and I think it's no coincidence that our politics are getting more tribal. Join me for why. Why is this happening? New episodes every Tuesday. Wherever you get your podcasts the trial of Gary Hilt for the murder of Cheryl Dunloy had taken seven days? The six-man six woman jury needed less than three and a half hours to reach its verdict on multiple counts state of Florida versus Gary. Michael Hilton we the jury find as follows as to count one of the indictment. The defendant offended Gary Hilton is guilty of first degree murder count. Two of them Diary Hilton was found. Guilty of first degree murder of Cheryl dunlap guilty on all counts except car theft. The same jurors would soon reconvene to decide if Hilton would die by lethal injection. He dodged death and George and now it was time to see if he could do it again. You might think that capital punishment but Florida's active death row would have been a given Gary Hilton but not so says Tallahassee Democrat Democrats senior writer Jennifer Portman and Leon County. We had not even sent anyone to death row in twenty years. So it's not a foregone conclusion that this is going to be hanging jury absolutely absolutely not. We've had our share of horrendous crimes. Don't get me wrong but the jurors here are just very uneasy about sending people to death. Row this man Mr Hilton Assistant. State's attorney Georgia Koppelman got the initial conviction of Hilton. What are the words used to describe this guy? He's a psychopath. And you know there's crazy sick and there's crazy mean he's just crazy mean. He's intelligence a college graduate. He was a member of our armed forces. He's probably smarter than everybody sitting in this room. There were different rules in this. The penalty phase unlike in the trial prosecutors were now now able to disclose to jurors that Hilton murdered Meredith Emerson on Blood Mountain and state's attorney Willie megs did just that calling to the stand Georgia Bureau of Investigation allegation agents. Who'd worked on the Emerson case? You indicated that Ms Nelson Body was nude Did Gary Michael Hilton. Tell you why it was. I knew he did he. He basically stated that he had Removed the head and stripped the clothing for forensic purposes makes was able cool to introduce portions of those chilling interviews. That Hilton gave the authorities in Georgia in pain. You're GONNA kill them. You don't think phase was one of the more interesting parts of the trial. That's where you started getting this information about Emerson Emerson because I I saw Georgia information was allowed into the correct. So that is when you really start seeing the jurors taking in the enormity then you really see the impact of all this coming coming through Robert. Freedman was the defenses lead attorney in the penalty phase. His strategy was to present Hilton as so mentally damaged as to be incapable of responsibility for his actions. Friedman began with a pet scan expert who testified about traumatic brain damage Hilton. It suffered as a ten year old. When Murphy bed accidentally fell on him a nearly scalped him he was taken to Saint Joseph Hospital on campaign given two hundred stitches? And this is an example of Murphy perfect bad and jurors. That's not all the defense's expert continued. Hilton was abused as a child and he lashed out as a teenager. The doctor testified that Hilton was so diluted that he believed he had worked on a movie about killing women in the forest. That of course was a slip up. Hilton had done just that and the defense error opened the door for the prosecution to tell the story about the movie deadly run or would that be delusional. If it's the truth I know a defense neuropsychologist tested Hilton to it. Turns out is as bright as he thinks he is. The wechsler intelligence scale. He scored an overall overall verbal. I Q of One hundred twenty which puts them in the upper ten percent or so of the population another psychiatrist diagnosed him with Schizo affective and antisocial personality disorder compounded by an old fashioned edible complex. We call it an unresolved oedipus complex and a child can grow up with this emptiness inside of them to top it off. The defense continued Hilton was self medicating with prescription drugs. Ritalin and effectual axel basically push you over that line. The defense then treated jurors to Gary Hilton. This is your life a saga of abuse neglect and injury it included an audiotape. Hilton's late mother talking about how as a teenager Hilton had wounded his stepfather and he said Chevy shipping the camera shot in the legs or in the stomach lower part of his junior high girlfriend testified that Gary it wasn't a bad guy back in the day. He was funny and outgoing and smart. The defense rash once the defense rested Willie megs called his rebuttal. Witness a a clinical psychologist to revisit the essential issues the mystery Hilton. Did he know right from wrong. My opinion is that yes. He clearly knew right from wrong and clearly he knew the criminal nature of his conduct in my opinion is that he is a psychopath. And that's that's what generated the murders and nothing else the attorneys. He's made their final appeal to the jurors. I'm going to ask everyone of you individually to go back in that jury room and vote to recommend end the Gary Hilton be put today on behalf of Mr Hilton. I'm asking all of you collectively and individually to recommend a life sentence in this case the jurors then retired to deliberate nothing less than whether Gary Hilton should live or die. Hi coming up another haunting question. Were there more victims out in the forest personally believed there and Dan a legacy. She's really the hero. It was through her efforts that we were able to catch her killer remembering meredith. Hope Amerson When dateline continues the same jurors who found Gary Hilton guilty of murdering Cheryl dunlap? We're now trying to decide if they should recommend Hilton. Spend life keep in prison or be put to death by lethal injection. Their life or death debate lasted an hour and twenty minutes of majority of the jury by a vote of twelve to nothing. Advise recommend to the court as the death penalty on Gary. Michael Hilton Hilton Sat expressionless as the results were read and where two weeks later and equally emotionless Hilton listened as the judge pronounced his sentence. Is that you gary. Michael Hilton contest to death. For the murder Cheryl dunlap Meta God. Have mercy on your soul. Gary Michael Hilton was sent to Florida's death row for the murder of Cheryl dumb three months later he was shackled and transported to western North Carolina and indicted in federal court there for the murders of John and Irene Arena Bryant the government alleged. The serial killer murdered the elderly couple in October of two thousand seven shortly before killing Cheryl Dunlap and Meredith Emerson. James Hilton pleaded not guilty. The forensic team from Florida that helped convict there was all set to testify in the federal trial. And all that evidence stored in the FDLE's basement just across the hall from the Boxes Containing Evidence Against Florida's more infamous serial killer. Ted Bundy was ready to get truck. Milk Hilton was facing another death sentence in the federal trial and David Mahoney. The local. Sheriff was certain jury would provide justice for the. Bryant's we have a good case Tremendous number of man hours spent an investigation tremendous cooperation between all of the local state and federal agencies as it were involved in all three states but a trial wouldn't be necessary in March two thousand Twelve Hilton pleaded guilty to killing John and Irene Bryant and got another another life sentence. Law enforcement officials from across the South East have met with golden on Florida's death row attempting to find out how many more of his victims might be out there. You think there are others. I think they're certainly the potential to be others. I don't know that we'll ever know for sure. And unless he tells us so. Far Hilton is sticking to his store. That and he started hunting as he describes it in October of two thousand seven that there were no murders before them like most of the other officers who've investigated Helton mm-hmm agent. Any white isn't buying. She says they have a lot of work ahead. Is it your belief Anne that there are more out there more victims of Gary Hilton. I personally believe there. Aw He's just been to many places so it just makes me think that there's probably more we're going to continue to look at every case that we can compare profiles and look for evidence the pain and suffering of the families of Hilton's victims and suspected victims dolls but never ends. He's taken so much for me and my family really. What can you say to someone who had murdered two wonderful people for three hundred dollars and Meredith Komo beautiful young lady Cheryl Dunlop and and very possibly many more. The man is not even what I think of is human. He is something else a true psychopath who needs to be put where he can never harm anyone else again for Shirl Dunlap's friends and family and Florida Hilton's conviction provoked conflicting feelings and I think believe it. No not that Cheryl would want us to forgive and when I went into the courtroom and I actually saw him. My thought was not that They put him to death or so that I was glad he was off the street. But I have to forgive Gary Hilton. I I have to be in the family. It was a death penalty case and the jury recommended the death penalty and that was the sentence. Does it matter to you clearer. Pleased with the outcome. Yes and like Laura said he's off the streets He's not hurt anyone again Yes I think it matters and there are regrets on the part of the officers who investigated the Hilton cases. Could there have been one tip line that come in sooner. Could've been one fragment information we could have put together more quickly and spared her. That hasn't been a day go by since I haven't thought about mad at them or so and what we could've should've done differently but see. She's really the hero she did the best. She could in hopes that we could catch up. It was through her efforts that we were able to catch her killer but also the killer. That was responsible for the killing of Sheldon. You're in Georgia for Meredith Emerson's closest friends. It's time to forget about Gary Hilton and remember her. He took our friend. He took a daughter a sister but he can't take her memory. He can't take the things we love about her away us. The important didn't work to be done. We started an organization in her memory. Julia Karen Bow or Meredith. Emerson's one time roommate. Georgia has founded along with others. Something called old right to hike advocating hiker safety. We didn't want anybody to go through this again. Either to bring awareness of what happened and how it happened and maybe make you think about going hiking by yourself twice. Take a friend you know to to be a little safer. The organization founded by Meredith. Emerson's friends has sponsored offense with a huge turnout of people and dogs. Meredith's dog Ella went to live with her parents in Colorado any event that we ever have for a hike just seen people come and say I never met Meredith but I feel like I know her and I wanted to come out and support and that was the biggest thing the community outreach after everything a happened right to hike aided humane societies educated hikers on safe practices and put Cell Towers on trail heads. One of the big things things that we realized very quickly on these trails that our cell phones didn't work and Meredith. Had Her cell phone with her and that didn't help her ever hike blood mountain. You just might notice a little sticker there as you head out. Remember me and the Meredith Emerson she most of all would like you to enjoy your day in the outdoors. Talk just really enjoyed being out with nature and watching a run through the forest and play with other dogs. I think it was a really peaceful a place for her to be people. Go to these places to relax and get away from everyday life and enjoy the outdoors and then they should continue to do that. These are some of the safest safest places there until the monster shows up. Yeah Gary Hilton has been on death row since April two thousand eleven. His appeals continue. You the average stay on Florida's death row is twelve and a half years. And that's all for this edition of Dateline. We'll see you again next Friday at nine eight central and of course I'll see you each weeknight for N._B._C.. Nightly news I'm Lester Holt for all of us at N._B._C.. News good night.

Gary Michael Hilton Meredith Emerson Meredith stingiest National Forest Blood Mountain Meredith Gary Hilton Georgia Gary US murder John Taber Hilton North Carolina Florida baton Merida Hilton Meredith Emerson Jason CHERYL
Education: Should You Sue Your College?

Telescope: Life in the Time of Corona

00:00 sec | 4 months ago

Education: Should You Sue Your College?

"This week on telescope were focusing on education. On how Cova changed, and what am I look like going forward. We've looked at it through the lens of toddlers and high schoolers, and now we've arrived at our final episode in the series. College. For lots of students and their parents, college is what it's all leading to some parents in this country. Start Saving for college when their children are still in diapers I know we have. There's a reason for. Without a college degree, there are lots of jobs that will twice at your application in many ways, colleges like a test. You have to pass even to be in the running. and. It's a test. You have to spend tens of thousands of dollars to take. But a lot of what you're ostensibly pain for at least for the expensive colleges. Is the quote Unquote College Experience? Ing On campus. Meeting other students. Bumping into eccentric brilliant professors. Anything's possible. Of course. A lot more difficult when you're not on campus at all when your classes earn, Zoom. And so as with many things, covert has ushered in a new phenomenon. Students and their parents demanding refunds. that. They desperately hoped to get into saying. We haven't got our money's worth. Give me a refund. Today on we look at what college is for. What it's worth. and WHO's willing to pay for it? To pay full price for an experienced that everyone acknowledges is subpar in a variety of ways just seems foolish to. Media, this is telescope I'm your host Jonathan? Monday Wednesday and Friday for the foreseeable future. We're GONNA bring you. Stories of people who are far away. In how each of us are learning to live through this moment. Producer Carla. Green has the story. School never came easily to meredith. When she dreamed about college shouldn't dream of herself at a prestigious difficult to get into school. It just seemed impossible to far out of reach I do have Adhd I was diagnosed pretty late in my life I was in eighth grade, and so that was something when I got to high school I was still learning how to deal with and manage. My grades were not bad in high school, but definitely ahead waves I'd I'd on like semester without failed my classes than another semester. Where get straight a's so it just? It was pretty up and down. She's exaggerating when she says she got all FS. That's that's that's crazy. This is Courtney quarter and you're married. It's mom. Yes, Meredith's mom. Coordinator her husband live in the quiet suburb. Meredith GRUPP Danville. It's about eighty percent white median household income of one hundred fifty thousand thirty minutes outside of San, Francisco? She did get an F. it once in high school, but you know for somebody with her academic ambitions that was a turning point for kids who plan to go to college or are expected to you. There's the silent drumbeat running underneath all of high school. How will this affect my chances? Into a good college, a college that will give you diploma that allow you to have. A good job can feel all consuming. Everything takes on this extra weight. Every misstep feels like I can damn you even just one f? Courtney said things changed for her daughter after that. She earned that Athens she she owned it and she went to summer school and remediated it the second time around. She got an A. Meredith always known about UC. Berkeley, as where mom went to school, and it's just a thirty minute drive from Danville. When she was a kid, her parents took her to see this German cabaret. Show that Berkeley students put on every year. The cabaret show was amazing especially for marriages. Meredith grew up speaking German shed a Germano pair as a child and Germans one of the reasons. Meredith was excited to go to college. She kept up with the language to classes online as a kid, but she didn't like him. She wanted the real thing in person so I was excited to have like my college German classes. But even after seeing that cabaret show, and knowing her mom had gone to Berkeley for College Meredith never really imagined herself learning I never thought that I was smart enough for just academically strong enough to go to school at cow UC Berkeley or some call it. Cow I grew up liking cowl just because of how like academically ranked, it is, and I just I always thought of it as a school that I could never forget into throughout high school. I just never thought I could get there. I looked at all the other. UC's meredith wasn't wrong about Berkeley. It's really hard to get into. Just seventeen percent of students will apply. Get in about the same as Oxford England. But as meredith settled into high school, her grades improved. She ran track and Jerez Times became impressive. She realized she might have shot. She was reaching out to college track coaches, and to reach out to Berkeley's, which was quietly exciting for Courtney, so where you kind of secretly rooting for Berkeley S. Meredith ended up getting in. She knew Berkeley would be academically challenging. That's one of the reasons she chose it. When she got, there was even harder than she expected. For one thing being college athlete is basically a part time job. And then there was her Adhd, which can make it really hard to concentrate. Get your work done, and it's your time. All things that are important when you're new to college already short on time because you're athlete. So at first, Meredith was floundering. says. What I tried to tell her so many times was that. I don't care if you have adhd or you're. You're a genius with fantastic executive planning skills. The. First Semester of college kills a lot of people you know, and it's not something that only happens to kids who struggle with attention. After that first semester, Meredith found her stride. She was doing better at school doing well on the track team. And then the second semester junior year this past spring. Well, you know what happened while many colleges and universities across the bay area are suspending in person classes starting next week, all classes year taught. Across the country more and more schools are doing the same an unprecedented move transitioning millions of students to online classes in just a few days, routines important for meredith more than for most people. That's how she learned to manage her adhd college planning ahead sort of groundhog day approach to school in Sports. That's why she stayed in Berkeley and an off campus apartment with friends from the track team. She was worried that going home would mess up the rhythm that she gotten into three years of college. And since March. Meredith developed a kind of quarantine schedule. She goes on a run pretty much every morning. And I knew that I wouldn't be able to continue doing online school at home. It was just been too hard, so that's why stayed despite the threat of Cova. Corny was fine with Meredith Stang. I was afraid that that we would get into the whole dynamic of highschool mom, high school, daughter and me saying hey, did you turn in that Simon? Yeah and I was not looking forward to being in the. Homework cop role again, but it was hard for meredith to stay motivated, even staying in her Berkeley apartment. For me especially I struggle with attention and maintaining my focus, and that was really really hard online where I don't even have to keep my camera on on zoom so. There's no way my professor would know if I wasn't paying attention and that made it pretty hard sometimes for me. Merida's will do crunches during class to make sure her attention didn't wonder she even tried going back on her Adhd meds. Although she didn't like the side effects didn't help. But Meredith figured it out enough to complete the semester. She stayed in Berkeley, but she was one of just a few students who did. Campus was a ghost town. It was a really eerie feeling walking around campus and seeing no one and just. It was definitely really weird. It feels like a strange historic time to be alive right now. I maybe especially to be a college student. Lots of people have compared this year's black lives matter uprising to another year of uprising, nineteen, sixty eight. Time when Berkeley students were pretty famously arms, and they know that there's the people Berkeley who groovy people the spirit which built the people's park is stronger than gas and clubs. They can't understand why those people are put under curfew. Tear gas. And even before the murder of George Floyd University, students across the country were involved in another uniquely American form of protest. Meanwhile, Students are rebelling against colleges and universities nationwide, demanding tuition refunds as classes move online lawsuits rigging Baker's class action lawsuit is just one of a couple nationwide. Dozens of colleges are being sued by their students and students. Parents for refunds after universities forced to close as the world attempted to contain krona virus. The lawsuits say the universities failed to hold up their end of the bargain. Provide the level of education that students were paying for. Some schools like the new school in Manhattan issued a partial refund after student pressure. Other schools that were sued already given students some money back. The University of California System, which includes UC Berkeley is among those being sued right now. They haven't yet agreed to give any money back. Alongside the lawsuits, some students have gone on strike threatening to withhold their tuition entirely unless the school makes what they consider to be acceptable accommodations. Refusing, to pay or asking for a refund is a perfectly natural response to not getting what you paid for Ron, Lieber is a New, York Times journalist and author of the book the Price You pay for college, which is coming out in January of next year, and I think it may have just never occurred to American undergraduates until recently because they didn't believe that they had any power as consumers in this marketplace, right, you grow up and you go to high school in the United States. Thinking that you're going to have to fight and scrape your way into whatever the most prestigious or selective school is that you can get into and that you can afford. Leader says American college students aren't used to demanding things particularly when it comes to money, which is an uncomfortable topic that most American children in American. Teens are not trained very well to handle or talk about. Let alone to ask for, but after say I think it's perfectly reasonable and probably more than a little healthy. that. People are standing up for themselves as consumers of this product and asking for more and asking better. There are a couple of different reasons why people go to College Ron says going to college to learn in pursuit of knowledge is one obvious one. Another's going because you need the diploma. And another is going to meet people professors on also your fellow students students who are interested in the same things that you are. Some of those reasons, still hold of classes are online, but other stone. If I was a parent and I'm a parent of a fourteen year old, so I'm a couple years from facing this down I would be asking myself. Serious questions about whether I was willing to pay full price for a totally remote experience and to pay full price. FERN experienced that everyone acknowledges is subpar in a variety of ways just seems foolish to me. Colleges make a hard sell, and people expect they'll deliver on I mean. Look you look at all of the marketing material. These schools spend in total about a billion dollars each year, just seeking out students and trying to convince them to come you look at all of this marketing material, and much of it is about like the glory and privilege wonder of an undergraduate residential four year experience, and so you strip the. Away and it's not that you're left with nothing, but it's not what you came for. It's not what you saved for. What you thought you would be paying for? And so if you're not going to get it, why would you write a check for full price? If, YOU'RE NOT GONNA get even half of what you thought you'd come for. We're living in a time of strikes as everything has gotten more expensive while wages have stayed pretty much the same. The Labor movement has had a resurgence across the United States and Govan's only accelerated things. Since the outbreak tenants all over the country have declared rent strikes faced with the choice of paying for housing groceries. College students occupy this murky grey zone in the states. They're technically consumers, but they have to fight tooth and nail for the privilege of paying tuition. Student strikes are comment in some parts of Europe south. America Quebec. Strikes to make education more affordable, accessible inclusive. But in the United States where higher education often carries a six figure price tag? There's not as much of a tradition of undergrad student, striking or suing. That is until now. It's not this series that be expected. To be money that I need Trini. Mysore is parent of a college student. HIS DAUGHTER SRI IS PRE MED at Michigan State University. I? I spoke to him on the phone. He hadn't heard about the lawsuits, but he wasn't conflicted about whether he'd want to. Can you just tell me when I told you about the lawsuits? What was your initial reaction? Immediate reaction was. Can I be part of the Class Action Lawsuit? Fishery knee and his family. Money's always been part of the conversation about college. He and his wife are both from India, but both studied in the united, states so A. we've been growing up. We always taught that. You know you'll get good quality education. You do well in school. You get jobs and you can make a good living. So we group with that upbringing, so both my wife and I value college education very much. it's it's not an option, or as it's an essential. Taking. Having liquidity are watering without sedate educated is not an option, but over kitchen must. Trainees daughter Sri got into Brown. She ended up choosing Michigan State because of money. Michigan State comes out to about twenty thousand dollars. A year while Brown would have been closer to seventy thousand Trini Saad for Grinchey Rondo. The amount of money cost of the to Split Brown and be pretty open and transparent with Kerr Amish. Manila had saved and along with. last she said no dad. I don't want to go to grown and spend seventy dollars a year. To on instinct on the. Trees a practical kid. She knew she wanted to become a doctor. She's nonsense. She was little. Actually. Please started gravitating towards medicine and anything related to them. Back when she was six years. I still remember. I, don't know somebody. then. Deputy gave her in medical kit. Try! It, all the time line vending doctor that I don't know. But there is a lot of schooling expensive schooling on the path to becoming a physician. And when says he'd Sue Michigan State? It's not because he has anything against the school he doesn't. To financial business decision. As a Pre med student trees got signs classes. That just aren't the same online. All other businesses are reimbursing people or laws of Seventies Galen Industry I had a flight ticket. Delta to take my family to New York City in summer, Delta gave US Greenwich. Guy Lynch you without any penalty. hortense allowed us to cancel without penalty. College is a business and Trini wants a refund or some store credit at least. The sheer number of colleges getting sued right now might be because people like streaming. People who see that they're getting an inferior product to what they were promised. Or Corona virus might also just be the straw that broke the back of a population riddled with student debt. Know, that like any college tuition it's. It's not affordable for some people and. Personally, it hasn't been a big issue for me but I. Do know people who really do struggle to afford the tuition and rely on financial aid in athletic scholarships and stipends. Meredith says she gets why people are suing. For one thing when the Berkeley Causes Online. Meredith says she could tell her professors were doing their best, but it wasn't really a Berkeley level education like her German class. was that same class that put on the cabaret. She'd gone to as a kid this spring. She was going to be part of the show singing dancing on stage. She'd been looking forward to it for years. But the pandemic it, so they couldn't do the show. And it's supposed to be a production. We rehearse every day and we're supposed to perform on stage at the end of the semester, but obviously we couldn't do that, so we. We kept working. M, we ended up just recording ourselves. And compiling all of the individual recordings in stitching them together, and made a video version of the performance, which we broadcasted live on Soom for about eighty people. But. It's not just about her German class. Meredith also gets the financial side of why people might WANNA sue. Even for in state students tuition at Berkeley's about thirty five thousand dollars a year. If you're living on campus, double pure from out of state. And we're in a pandemic over two million people are out of work in California right now. It's definitely hard for for some of my friends, and it's definitely very stressful to to watch that and feel I. Mean I just feel helpless a lot because I wanNA help my friends, but I do know that Tuition is expensive and a Lotta. People struggled to afford it. When Meredith thinks about the stuff, she's thinking mostly about friends. Friends for whom Berkeley Education is a big financial stretch. She. Friends were thinking about dropping out of classes are still online next semester. But Meredith herself is not in that situation. Her parents haven't lost their jobs. They're still able to afford her tuition and living expenses, which is unusual and in of itself. It was even before co Ed. Almost seventy percent of American students had to take out loans to afford college and Twenty nineteen, according to the Federal Reserve's. An Meredith didn't actually understand how unusual her parents financial situation was until she got to. College Danville is known as being a bubble and I knew that growing up, but I didn't really understand it until I came to college, and I realized just how sheltered I was growing up, so it's definitely been a big change coming to college, and that's one of the main reasons why love Berkley so much is that I feel like I've been introduced to the real world, and not just my little Daniel Bubble I safe bubble. Meredith didn't expect the whole other education. She ended up getting Berkeley. I. Think one of the bigger things that I my eyes were opened up to was just people in different financial situations than I was I think that was one of the biggest things I I came to realize in college because. I mean there's so many things that divide people in separate people but something I just haven't grown up in a pretty affluent area. I never really experienced was just seeing people who didn't have as much money as me and that that's a topic that it's uncomfortable to talk about sometimes in. It's uncomfortable witness but. That's something that definitely I've just have. It's my eyes have been opened up to law and. Justice, making friends with people who look different than me or just come from different backgrounds than me has been the biggest thing at cal that has changed me and made me more politically aware. So Meredith sympathetic to the students who are suing, but her mom. The one who is actually paying for college I wasn't aware of refund lawsuits until I heard about it from from you. I have not kept up with that development in the news. So. My initial reaction was the one that you captured when we first had our talk, which is oh really people are suing universities for refunds so I was surprised. Let me just jump in here to say that in that first conversation which I didn't record. Courtney and meredith disagreed pretty violently about this. To said she gets why. People might ask for refunds for food or housing, but not much else. In the end she said your diploma's Logan say UC Berkeley on it. It's the kind of conversation that I'm all too familiar with from conversations that I've had about political stuff with my own parents that lots of parents and children are having right now. Anyway actor Courtney. It's about. The Prestige of the place the history of the place the values of the place it's there's are. There are a lot of intangibles that go into the value of that degree, besides just showing up in a specific auditorium on a specific day, Courtney sees coronavirus classes moving online as really unfortunate, but also not something. You can really blame Berkeley for my inclination, not knowing all the details is that they're probably kind of fair to the to the to the universities I kind of feel like well. It's not like if a card dealer does switch on you. You see this ad for this one car and you get there to the lot and they don't have that car and they try to sell you something out that that's that's fraught malice, but this is a natural disaster that affected all of us. Not just the students who are the customers of the university, but the university itself its debate that can go round in circles forever I do feel a certain extent. This is life unexpected things happen and. One has to pick oneself up and figure out how to move forward. Not, necessarily blaming someone else, but trying to figure out the best way. Forward for yourself and for your own university. Got Married at then her mom on the phone together to talk this through. When some of my friends are going through something, it's I. Just can't ignore it, you know. You can tell when you talk to meredith about this stuff that she feels guilty about not having to worry about money while her friends are i. feel like personally responsible to help out by friends. And even just my friends people I know in just being a student here I think it's like part of my responsibility to look out for my fellow students, and not just changed my opinion on it because I feel like I'm seeing things more up close and personal than my parents are. Be I. Definitely it does change things knowing that my parents are paying for school for me and. I am super grateful for that. Yeah Courtney. I'm curious to hear what what you think of what married at the saying about feeling this kind of personal responsibility for other people at the school. I feel proud of her I've feel I feel glad that. She wants to be a positive force in the lives of her friends and. I feel very glad that she appreciates. That, you know. She is being supported by US and she recognizes the value of that. The fact of the matter is it sounds like meredith time on campus at Berkeley has helped maker into the person. The Courtney is so proud of I. Don't know you just get such a different perspective when when you're surrounded by people 'cause because it's also easy to ignore. ignore people's opinions online. You can block anyone, but sometimes in Berkeley, you're forced to hear things that you don't. You might not WanNa hear I. Mean just as there's a lot of like very liberal people on this college campus. There's just as many. Just crazy really intense radical people like standing on the street and shouting things, and that's something that if I was just at home in Danville I would not see and I wouldn't really care about, but I'm just exposed to a lot more when I'm on campus ironically. Courtney's own college experience kind of proof of that. She actually had a political awakening of her own when she was at Berkeley in the Early Ninety S. I graduated in Nineteen ninety-one. And? I. I definitely My consciousness was raised as a student at at Berkeley but not in a typical way Berkeley was well known to be a place where. Liberal thought and ideology. We're we're at the forefront and. I thought well. It would be kind of fun or interesting to explore the the opposite side of this coin. And I join the Berkeley College Republicans. She campaigned for Bush. Quayle had tomatoes thrown at her and her fellow Republicans Corny says she was exploring looking at different ways of thinking she quit after a while became more centrist and considers herself more on the left side of the political spectrum now, but it was, it was neat to be in a place like Berkeley where there were lots of ideas being battled, and I'd say I I. I liked being in a place where I could hear different viewpoints and perspectives. They definitely changed me. Meredith went to her very first protest on Donald Trump's inauguration day. The women's March that happened that day. A couple of weeks ago, she went to another. Block matter protests that ended up outside Berkeley High School. A couple blocks from campus. There's this one guy at the end and his speech was really shocking to me just because I mean, he even said himself. I'm surprised they haven't shut my mic off yet. A lot of people who spoke were were saying the right things and saying you know end racism this defend the police like. I agree than this guy came at the end. He was saying I can I swear? He was saying like well like as F- The like Republicans, but then he was saying f the Democrats like each one wing on the same bird, and he was saying all this stuff like S, America, I was. Surprised, but I kind of was like okay like I. Know what. You're if you're confident in what you're saying I'm. GonNa Listen so yeah. Definitely. It had an impact on me because I was like you know what you're right. It feels like we're living in a revolutionary time. It's exciting. Meredith says. But it's also a scary time to be about to graduate from college. Enter the workforce. Meredith, still not quite sure what she wants to do for a job. She's majoring in rhetoric and German. She's thought about maybe working in criminal justice reform. But her time at Berkeley has also shown her that some of the things. She's been told to expect out of life. They're just not true. Maybe they never were. I had a conversation with my friend the other day about. It's kind of really broad, but just this idea of like work really hard, and you will succeed and get whatever you want. And I feel like that kind of phrase right now is really frustrating to hear because it feels like the people that I know who are working the hardest you know. The ones trying the league make ends meet right now. Those are the ones who I'm talking about. Who might have to drop out or might not be able to? Have the same opportunities as me. Kobe made all of this is a little more true. A powerful idea has tightened its hold on the United States past couple decades. The idea, the college is worth at that. If you go to college, it'll help you climb the economic ladder. Get jobs and opportunities that it'd be unavailable to you otherwise. But, the American economic ladder is notoriously tricky to climb. A college degree hasn't been a guarantee for a long time and with covid even less so. And as the cost of tuition rises, going to college starts to look more like a gamble. All that might mean that with Cova Ed the Calculus of whether or not to go to college, or whether to drop out, it might shift our sprawling expensive higher education system might start to see students deciding that. Not Worth it. Or maybe it won't. For now Berkeley's told students that some classes will be online next semester, but most of the smaller classes will be in person. Must Meredith causes or small, so shelby on campus next year. But, of course that could change. On Cova Time August feels like it's decades away, completely unknowable. The whole world could be different by then. We've got a lot of people to thank for this episode. Thanks to Meredith and Courtney and Trini and Ron for taking time to speak with US Every week we receive emails private messages on twitter posts on facebook from listeners. The end of every episode we share sounds from around the world to hear what your lives are like and what you're going through. Hotels in L. A. are starting to reopen for leisure, guests and many hotel employees are worried about their health and safety. Dozens of local election union members held a car caravan last week in protest, the group drove passed landmark hotels downtown. Union, Reps and worker say not enough. Cleaning and safety measures have been put into place, and that reopening will force low paid workers mostly people of Color and immigrants to choose between their safety and their job security. Toes go made possible by the World Class Team Producers Editors and engineers make up neon Menia. Jonah Santis the managing producer of telescope. Today's episode was produced by Carla Green. was. Edited by Catherine Saint Louis. Our engineer is Scott Somerville. Thanks to Matt McGinley For our theme music, and to Blue Dot sessions additional tracks here in this episode. Follow us on twitter and Instagram me on home media. You can also join our facebook group by searching for telescope. Show please remember to review on Apple podcasts. We WanNA, stay connected with you during this unprecedented in our history so these don't be shy. Share your stories with us RDM's are open. If you have a story of life in isolation because of the corona virus. We do want to hear from you and you can share that story. Pitches in Hong Kong. Jonathan Hersh. Thank you on behalf of all of us here Hump. We wish you a happy weekend. We're GONNA. Take Monday off, but took back again on Wednesday.

Berkeley S. Meredith Berkeley Courtney meredith United States Adhd Meredith GRUPP Danville Danville UC Berkeley Unquote College Experience Meredith Stang A. Meredith Trini Saad Berkeley College Republicans Jonathan Hersh Carla Green. producer Cova Berkeley High School Berkeley Causes Online
To Postpone, Or To Downsize? Weddings Take A New Shape In Coronavirus Pandemic

Radio Boston

00:00 sec | 3 months ago

To Postpone, Or To Downsize? Weddings Take A New Shape In Coronavirus Pandemic

"Welcome back to Radio Boston I'm Jamie Bologna. marriage joys of wedding season. This time of year is usually prime time for celebrating unions of all kinds, but for many couples, of course, the pandemic has meant a slow fade out of their original wedding plans with large gatherings. Mostly band as they pose a big health risk, how do you plan a wedding and when the celebration slowdown? What does that mean for the wedding industry? So for the rest of this hour, we're GonNa, take your calls. Are you planning a wedding in the midst of this pandemic? Have you had to downsize or postpone your wedding or of gone through it? Despite the risks are you a guest debating whether or not? You should attend a? A wedding and because the wedding industry encompasses so many different businesses. We also want to hear from the folks who make these celebrations, happening, wedding planners, caterers, Flora's venues, deejays, video, and photographers. Call US everyone's invited where at one, eight, hundred, four, two, three, eight, two, five, five, that's one, eight, hundred, four to three talk or you can tweet us at radio. Boston joining us for today's conversation is many con. Mandy Connors. She's the owner and lead planner at hummingbird bridal events. Welcome to Radio Boston Mandy Hi Jamie. How are you? I'm good. Also joining us is Meredith Goldstein is the person behind the bus globes. Love Letters, column and Podcast Meredith Welcome back to you. Hello. So Meredith, I, WANNA I wanNA start with you. You wrote about this early in the pandemic of the uncertainty, facing all of us, and especially those planning and working in weddings how? Changes since the beginning of the pandemic well I think at the start of missed, we just didn't know how long it was going to last. So people who had weddings in April were thinking that June and that seemed possible that of course, as the weeks went on, it started, it seemed like, Oh, well, maybe this is going to be a fall event or maybe this is being pushed back a year. So at the time interviewed wedding planners and people in the industry people, stationers, you know people who are putting out save the dates. You know in some cases with big question marks on them and literal. Literal like like here's a plan being here's a plan C., and at the time, a lot of planners were telling me, we need people to be flexible. We also suspect that twenty twenty one is going to be very busy and part of that might mean having weddings on. Fridays, Thursdays in Navy. Even. Wednesdays, and as you know, I'll be curious to to hear what a planner has to say. But as your has gone on as someone who's a frequent guest at weddings I am not married not had a wedding, but I love to be a good guest is sort of like the idea that we learned that we can work more flexible more flexibly, we can celebrate more flexibly so. I think people as the has gone on, people have said Oh we're GONNA? Do this differently or we're going to be really patient about waiting the one big complaint I. Hear from people is that they're trying to get within a calendar year so that they can not lose out on deposits. So there are there is a financial peace this right like they've already put down money but. Some people are really just saying, see on twenty, twenty two and pull it off. You Know I. think that's Great, and it just seems like from what I've heard, the local wedding industry has been quite. Delightful about being flexible and trying to help couples as best I can so Mandy Connor. How about that? Yes, we are were obviously. It's an ever changing landscape and I'll tell you that as a wedding vendor, it extremely challenging to keep up with the constant changing landscape. We're having to reinvent what a traditional wedding looks like obviously with. On headcounts not being able to have a DANCEFLOOR, not being able to have a band not being able to host a big bar. It really restricts the ways that we traditionally celebrate. So for us, we are having to pivot and man I am coming to hate that word. We're having all. We're having a pivot constantly to reinvent new ways to celebrate. We as humans love to celebrate big milestones I, don't see that changing anytime soon. But asking your guests asking your couples, asking your benders to re imagine how you see yourself celebrating this major milestone. Taking. A lot out of couples. But you're seeing a lot of people be very creative and very open minded about how they're willing to celebrate such a big day. One, eight, hundred, four, two, three, eight, two, five, five is the phone number. That's one, eight, hundred, four to three talk. However you reimagining or rethinking your wedding in in this time of covid or how are you thinking about going to weddings as a guest? One, eight, hundred, four, two, three, eight, two, five, five, I. Do want to also ask you Mandy about that that the PAS issue that Meredith was talking about because I know that that. finances is such a huge issue for anyone planning a wedding and now for so many people who be employed or underemployed or working from home. There's just so much financial strain out there. So our our you and other folks balancing that. It's a very complicated issue. I mean, we could take a three hour show to really dive into all the intricacies of understanding how deposits work. This is a cottage industry of small businesses. You. You don't find mega businesses in the wedding industry. It's all artisans, Batik. Companies, small businesses. For Small Business Owners, you have a very strict flow particularly with a seasonal business. We make all of our money New England essentially between May and October one sock. Tober. Hits. You see a sharp decline in the number of weddings and really that's the time that couples are spending planning for next year So for small business vendors to be asked, you know, let's say the standard wedding photographer. If they've got cancellations coming in. We're not talking about people who are postponing. We're talking about couples for outright canceling and coming back and sing like a full deposit. refunded. Back to us. who's got that kind of cash flow available to be refunding. Positive thirty, forty clients. I, mean, we're talking you know tens of thousands of dollars in liquid assets for small business to have available that that sort of request can we'll put small businesses out of business. Actually in to that point our our producer Paris Austin spoke with Chrissy price she runs Boston pollen and his a floral designer, and she said she talked to us about how she and others are trying to stay afloat while being sensitive to the fact that this can be hard financial time for clients. One of the really important things that we discussed as an industry was trying to like ask our clients to reallocate their by ditch instead of reduce them to limit their reduction to ten percent or lacked so that we wouldn't lose income further. So, Meredith. Goldstein. From the Boston. Globe. Has. This may be given permission to folks to maybe scale back. Expensive wedding plans were it really has an think hard of that. Is that some taste makers and influencers and celebrities I've seen this on instagram. This season people who've posted a picture of themselves on their doorstep. You know that that they did this with just two people and the pictures are great from afar, and that's all they did needed. Celebrity who might have had a very wetting in a different time. So I I do think that gives permission in the sense that suddenly it also feels like a trend I. mean. It's so funny because as an advice columnist here's from people when they are unhappy relationships, I've always had this idea that everyone should get engaged and then wait five years to get married, and if you still want to go right ahead. So I love this idea that for some people they are spending the money. They are not asking for that money back and they saying you know what? We are willing to have a long engagement and wait and working to celebrate when everybody's there. I would also is pandemic is in five years long meredith. Let let's not let's not rank. And sorry, don't scare anybody I. Think what's also interesting in many. I would love to know what you think about. This is often the questions I get off the record, our family and friends who have been invited to an event, and they feel as though health considerations are being taken. What if what? If I don't feel comfortable going? So how do you advise couples on how to make guests feel safe or not guilty if they can't go to something that is planned while actually. Want to go to a caller here who is planning a wedding. We have anti calling, from Framingham Anne, welcome to Radio Boston. Thank you very much Hi Meredith I. Love Your Call Him. So I am calling to say that I found hidden blessing and all of this We we're getting married next Saturday. So ten days We were originally of our wedding in a is. Thank you We're originally going to have our wedding in a halt was seventy six people. Now, it's seventeen people in my backyard and they hitting the hidden Blessing is that my dog can now be the ring bearer. So you, you sound you sound like a happy. Happy Bride. So so I guess he found the Silver Lining here, right? Any. Exactly and You know a lot of people are doing what we're GONNA do in one year on the nursery. We're GONNA have. Any. Actually. Party hopefully. We wanted and we're going to renew our vows. That's very sweet. Thanks for the call give this. So Mandy, but of course, then that means you know you don't need a wedding planner, right? If you're doing it in your backyard. Absolutely Certainly, you know there now is the time once. So many of the couples out there have gotten over the initial shock of having to move and readjust their weddings There's a reevaluation where do your priorities lie What do you really want to celebrate I? See a lot of couples embracing the concept of an an elopement and micro wedding there used to be such a stigma attached to elopement, and we're seeing that actually elopement and micro weddings are something to really get excited about I would say sit down with your significant other and re evaluate your priorities. You can have the greatest most luxurious celebration you can possibly imagine. Imagine if you're only hosting twenty people rather than two hundred, imagine putting all of your budget into something that is completely over the top and completely memorable in every way, rather than hosting a really huge celebration where maybe you've got to make cuts and make negotiations because budget is a lot tighter when spread over two hundred guests. So when I talked to my couples when I talked to other couples out there I, really I'm encouraging you reevaluate your priorities for the day Maybe you want to elevate the luxury of the day. Maybe WanNa L. Elevate the situation It really is a good opportunity to reevaluate how you think about celebrations. So actually WanNa, hear some tape here from Josh Resin Cough. He just got married last weekend to his wife Michelle, and he talked to our producer parasol sin about how much planning and communication with family had to go into pulling the wedding off. You know I can't stress enough like how many private conversations were had like you don't want that one crazy cousin to show up who's like hey. Get loose, and so there was a lot of family work that went into making sure that this safe. That really take a lot of joy in the fact that you're going to celebrate a special moment like this huge huge transformative moment in your life, and that you get to share that with your nearest and dearest, maybe not your nearest and dearest three hundred friends. One, eight, hundred, four, two, three, eight, two, five, five. So myrtos Goldstein. This idea that you could have one hundred people at a depending on the venue at an outdoor site. Right? According to the two, the governor's orders. But how do you you know? Let's say you have a big Italian family. How do you? How do you get that number two hundred and how do you negotiate as Josh was talking about with your family members about their safe behavior and how do you juggle all those things? I mean I think it's a time for real boundaries because let's say you have a guest list of a hundred. That's all you've ever wanted a half of those people are high risk or perhaps don't feel comfortable coming I. You know I think this is not the time for grudges. If you WANNA have your wedding, you have to accept people might not want to be there live. They might WanNa be there on. they might want to celebrate with you at a later date. So I think you know what I keep telling people is no mind reading No passive aggressiveness. If you're a couple and you're doing this, expect to hear some no's for people who love you dearly, and it has nothing to do with with not loving you not coming you know, and so you have to be ready to be central unit at the Party. Whoever can feel comfortable coming? That's great, but it might not be everybody. Want to go to one more caller here if we can fit them in. Tiffany is calling from rally tiffany. Hello. How are you? Good what's on your mind? So, we actually own a venue here in rally the Bradstreet Farm, and we've been working with our clients to successfully have a few weddings here I'm under the guidelines and working really hard, and so one of the grooms just mentioned this super important for communication can't stress it enough to communicate with the vendors, your guests of your family and. Things tiffany. Yes. So we we've been working with our local board of health agents very closely ever since it's actually broke started having completed conversations with them about what these guidelines we're going to be, and obviously we didn't know until we knew and then we just work together as a team to make sure that we could deliver it and just had a clear line of communication and full transparency with our clients about what was allowed to what is not allowed, and then how we would pivot. You know how we could do things how we could give them the wedding that they were hoping for within the bounds of the guidelines in doing. So slate safely have you. Tiffany. Absolutely. Yeah. We've we've gone down to just a handful of weddings and we were supposed to have dozens and dozens and dozens of she. Steph. Yeah, unfortunately. but we've an amazing team. That's GONNA come back with US next year, and we're ready to roll next year we're allowed do so. Tiffany. Things. I did want to. That's okay. One of the things that I did want to mention though is just there's a big difference in the industry in a continuing conversation about deposits versus payments. And the planner did such a nice job about discussing deposits and such. But it's really important to note that a lot of us don't take deposits, we take payments, and so that's an ongoing conversation that we've all had about how we deal with that value. Thank you. We appreciate your phone call You know I can't help but keep thinking about these financial impacts on the the jobs that are lost and I know this is a huge industry meredith. It's the DJ's videography photographers. People that here here's one piece of good news. I'll say the research I've done about what happens after world events and natural disasters and things that really change us is that a lot of people get married, it's not just divorced digested, go up a lot of people get married. So I just keep thinking that when we come out of this, we might see far more marriages and have seen. Seen with raping weddings and I. Hope. So many people are employed as this happened. So that's what I keep holding onto for the industry because I think it's such a wonderful beautiful industry with so many talented artistic people. So it's it's what I'm holding onto. Well I want to squeeze in one more caller here. If we can emily from noon, if you could be very brief, emily, go ahead. Yeah. So my husband and I got married in my parents backyard Newton in Bay, and we had all of our guests on zoom and what was really great about is that we got to have spent time with our close family and friends and and it was incredible. So encourage going going with a crazy time. Try something new wedding zoom. Thank you, Emily in our last few minutes here. Yeah. Where are you finding hope in in all this I, know meredith, you just mentioned that. So Mandy Connor. Yes. So I think that this has given all of the artisans, all of the small business owners in the industry time to grieve timed of refocus ourselves on new services, new offerings. The winning industry has been around for so long and it was due for a shake-up. It was time for us to be challenged to rethink how we can reimagined services that we offer clients So this has I think it has pushed creatives to be more creative to think outside the box and to re imagine how we can your celebration. In a time of pandemic with loads of restrictions in front of us. And it could be good for folks who you know maybe couldn't afford a wedding in the first place maybe now now is the time to do it right meredith at. and in in our in our final moments here, Meredith Goldstein I also just want to ask you what do you say to that cousin who just won't give it up just wants to come and wants wants to party wear a mask. Where mask wash your hands, wash your hands, wear masks. Stay far away. You know you could party alone many feet away. Right that's that's murder Goldstein. She is the woman behind the Boston. Globe love letters calm and podcast meredith. Thank you so very much for joining us. Thank you for having me and Mandy Connor. She's the owner and lead planner at hummingbird bridal and events. Mandy. Thank you so much as well. Thanks so much. Jenny.

Meredith Goldstein Meredith Boston Mandy Tiffany Mandy Connor Boston Party Small Business Owners Mandy Connors Mandy Hi Jamie producer Emily Meredith I. Flora US Josh Resin Jamie Bologna. Michelle
Ep 2: Meredith Haggerty

Gee Thanks, Just Bought It

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

Ep 2: Meredith Haggerty

"Welcome to G. Thanks just bought it the podcast where I tell you what to buy and then you tell me what to buy and then we all go shopping together and I'm your host Caroline Moss. And today I am with my friend Meredith. TAGGART's she is also the deputy editor Vox Dot coms the goods. Hi Meredith hike. Hi Thank you very calming me so I'm super excited to have you wouldn't as we know. The holidays are coming up and one of the things that I was thinking. The other day was just like how Bad Dad Recommendation Forget like dad gift. Drexel are so impossible and they're awful like right like how many whiskey ice cubes can you buy father. Why do we think America's fathers are all alcoholics? Aw Alcoholic Golf players. Yes never played golf in his life. I don't think my dad plays Golf. But he doesn't drink a lot of whiskey he gets like really drunk off one dockery and and then like can't drive the golf cart terrible at drinking much better at this perfect so you know every year. I'm like you you know my dad doesn't wear ties. He hasn't played golf. I don't like doesn't smoke cigars. I don't know whose dad does all this stuff but like apparently it's enough dads that fuel the entire male over fifty like rack industry. So I wanNA know like what you buy your dad for the holidays and like how how much you spent like. Please help us. No more whiskey balls more whiskey balls. I mean it's like it's exactly as hard for me as everyone else but I last Christmas stumbled Donna. Give them. My Dad happened to lake so I also got him the same thing for father's Day at his insistence. Oh Wow yeah. He was like we have solved it like he also likes when things are solved. That Way Dad does. He's like Oh we have a system now and it's like I can't keep buying you this. But what is it is the ultimate bloomer. Shoe all birds. Wow Yeah my daddy wait a minute. Hold on the ultimate boomer. She'll Albert's ultimate millennials. Who are the ultimate San Francisco millennials? You the ultimate tech brochure. Initially Honda boomers just embraced them really not okay boomer. Not Okay boomer. But they love them 'cause they're Mm Soft and warm. It's about Auburn. Just for those of us who maybe haven't seen an instagram ad for them or San Francisco and witnessed everybody who works at we work. Yeah walking walking outside to get US weekly and salad so I guess they are. They do have a little bit of a Their shoes there initially yet. They have an initially like hip shoe reputation sneakers that that look like I always like to say like if a child. You're a sneaker it's just like the basic idea of a sneaker there is nothing there's no like Nike swoosh. There's no fans there's no sneaker head Hullaballoo it's just like there's a shoe on your wall. They're like net or so I think there's two weights or maybe more than two. There's actually three maybe weights. I might add has to now has a wool one which he immediately like got wet and ruined and because because he walked down and walked into water in wool shoes. Yeah these shoes are will. I should definitely walk into the lake with them. Which I believe is what my father did and he also he's like never goes on the lake like underneath the census does not like to be wet but then I buy him a pair of shoes and he's like going in the lake and these shoe? He felt powerful. I mean that's what this does so okay so you bought a wool shoes. Do you wear socks with these shoes. Yes and your dad does too. Yes I mean I wonder I've never worn them myself. I basically like I started here around. the office. Vox Dot com around the goods office. That boomers seem to really like these shoes. I think my my colleague Julia Ruben's parents might like them talked about them. Other friends of mine talked about how talk about them. I think they're being advertised to boomers. Wear I don't know it's not on instagram. My parents didn't even learn about them but once now my father is doing the old fashioned viral of just telling all his friends about them. Calm the word of really bragging about the issue. How much did did you spend on the initial pair? They are ninety five dollars. Okay that's pretty good and like okay so let them like you celebrate Christmas so it's Christmas morning you're like Dad. Here's your gaffed. Sort of walk me through. Did you have a lot of questions when he opened them. I mean the questions are more like oh he didn't ask for them right. You like I'm GonNa get my Dad Aubert. I was like I hear you need some shoes. He didn't need shoes heels. I think sneakers were probably like forty seven years old. My dream is someday. I'll have enough money to get my parents in new mattress us. They're going to be really excited that I'm saying this podcast. Because they're mattress is from the Nixon administration and that's not a bit older than I am bio by good minding. My parents are to. Oh you my parents have that same thing there. My ears are very practical. Yes I'm like. Why don't you get this thing like? Why would we get a new thing? And I'm like I don't know because they just got a new refrigerators. The first frigid since I was born it it has the freezer on the bottom. It's very exciting. The ice maker in the door. I'm like we're a town like wow. We have come into some money I see no rolling. Yeah exactly okay. So it's green while other has also put a TV in bat in the room in every room of his house including the bathroom. And the I the more you talk about your father the more I see myself I mean. Honestly the bathroom. TV is like the word the third the word the third wire carrow sort of you know twitter recommendation. I ever met was I've ever made was this Is this like stick to the wall. Sort of stand. Did you got any. Lean your iphone on your ipad on it and then he wants to watch your movies in the shower and I honestly watch law and order like while I'm doing my hair and it's and I have to now on the bathroom mirror ones in my actual bathtub see. I put mine on on the mirror which I believe is what you told me to do and I a little bit which I put it in the bathtub. That's what to going back and forth literally ten dollars anyway. I'll link to for that back to Christmas morning. Your Dad opens a shoes. What's the initial reaction is like? Oh shoes okay. And then so. He's not. He's not bowled over right away. I don't know what Your Dad's like like my dad is usually receive gifts with a like. Oh yeah no no. I got a lot like law and then like you know three or six months later. He suddenly realizes that he's been like wearing it all the time or he gets a complimentary whatever and it or maybe my mom is prompting and who can say. It'll be a really liked those shoes and then or I really liked that sweatshirt. We're like I gave him the sweatshirt. That was It's an American giants which I had written a story about American giant. I was like Dad. Here's the sweatshirt like it's meaningful. Because I wrote this whole story about the company money on like this. It's it's you know so that you can tell people about your daughter. Whatever right and he's like okay and then you know nine months later? He's like I wonder what your life. That's great thank you. I'm yeah so so your Dad's like opening the gift he's like did he. Try them on right away No I think you waited. I think like they're sort of lattice. How does he know reaction for a long time? Then my parents come to visit then then at some point I start to hear. Oh I I like these shoes and then shortly after oh it turns out there really like these shoes is oh I walked into the water in these shoes and ruin them perfect right And then My parents came to visit me in New York. And it's what you do with your parents when they visit you hear. Yeah like non-state visiting I take my parents to the like the Amazon four-star store. You'll like this. You've been on Amazon. And where the stores nearby and I was like well. I don't know if you want to go to the Auburn Sterling. Seem like you'd liked those and you can see those shoes. You have in their natural habitat. I'm a terrible. And he's like Oh sure and then somehow that ends with him just being like I would like the lighter weight version of the issues and you can give them to me for father's Day and I was like done Gun Buddy your dad has now like a teenager who's like pointing at something in like February and he's like I like those next time it's time for me to get a gift but it's like I just bought them bed. Ed which I think was February for Father's Day and I was like sure back at them and gave them to me. That's a great honestly. I'm convinced that I should get my dad. A pair of all birds words because I've never considered it But it's it's such a dad shoe will then I think I think that's the great they're not designing but they're also not like you know I'm I'm not trying to make Dad got you these running shoes like you know I might add. You're not making a decision for his. Life is like an every day shoe right. Neutral Palette super super neutral gray or dark blue like it's a great idea there's ninety five bucks five bucks and you already got him two pairs. Yeah I don't know what I'm GonNa do for Christmas. I honestly think go through the third pair. I think there's another kind of he's GonNa get them and that's a I think I think you have to get your dad. All birds in delete tells you to stop or maybe just feel like he has such a surplus that he can just walk into to all the lakes he sees and he'll just like it's fine my daughter. We'll get me another parents. They're basically disposable. Ninety five dollars realize you're not supposed to get them wet. I just assume like all tacky sort of shoes or like where them in the shower. They cannot be ruined but I guess they're just I mean I don't think I think they may have bounced back. I should check with about it. I ah honestly I WANNA listeners now but yeah I mean you're probably don't walk into the water in most sneakers just as a matter of I know that he was wearing like jeans with black dress socks at the time to like I know that in my heart I love So there's no way he should have been in the water next time he's in town. Oh you I would. I would really like that. I would really like to talk about that every TV and every room of the house. It's you know what it's the best thing he's doing. He just retired. And like what makes you not WanNa wait until retirement. The I'm just going to start putting in every room it I mean I when I saw it I was like this is ridiculous like you're being ridiculous that's crazy. I came home I immediately bought a second. TV for my own adamantly which. I do bring into the bathroom. But it doesn't come to lift it and bring it on the I honestly think investment high-powered for that or like some sort of like kindle kindle. Fire that you just asked you know. Load up your Netflix Hulu. Yeah I'm ready. I am the kind of person that if I had. TV in every room. In my house. I would I would like have someone waiting and everyone's like Oh. Hey we're going to press play now on this up so that the the same episode of views playing in every room at no matter what I'm doing or where I'm going with me. That is absolutely my biggest stresses just like. Oh so. I started watching Netflix. Let it snow in the living room and I go into the night time code on the thing right exactly okay so you heard it here. All Birds For dad's air neither whiskey adjacent Golf Jason. I assume you can't golf in them. I can golf it and neither does my dad. So we'll loved ask yours. That's a really good gift idea. Thank I'm stealing it. I'm giving it to my dad. I look forward to Mr Mom. Yeah exactly I look forward to him opening it and being like But I already have shoot you. Get another pair dad. It's we're going big this year And I also asked you so. That's an under one hundred dollar recommendations I also I also asked you to bring me In your head the best thing that you have bought for yourself or that you have in your life that you paid less than fifty dealers. I think you're told you. Let's hear it I so I give this gift to myself okay. No one is better giving me gifts than me. I'm really good at. I think I know just what I want. I loved here. Yeah I hear Ya I really do so actually but how I got this in the first place I didn't buy by it all of that. And then okay. I didn't in the first place and then I bought to replace it when it broke. Oh Okay and then I got another one when that one broke because they also these break pretty easily. What you're talking about what you lay our trail you already on your third? Whatever it is? We're talking on my third of this thing and it's going to be extra humiliating that that's It is a a tiny fridge that I keep on my desk for Diet Cokes at at work at the Office I oh my God. It's the it's from frigid air. It's Klay wish my face was just me. My I'm inspired thing. I am that Oprah gift. That's like that video that she's like she is the mother. I've never had like that. That's that's hard to about you right now. Whoa this is what I do? Every you have a personal Diet Coke Fridge on your desk that you have now replaced twice. Yes okay so how did you come into the first one having not paid for it so the Jersey Land. I mean definitely I'm constantly not for it to. That's too hard so My former at and spiritually current colleague Cheryl whichever who used to be staff writer for the goods and now freelances for us a lot. She's a beauty reporter and she gets a lot of free stuff whole project about it on Iraq. Diana loved that I will link to that is so cool. It's this huge package about all the stuff that PR people send People who write about you know shopping and consumerism and brands and fashion and beauty and it was something like three hundred thousand dollars worth of almost almost one hundred thousand dollars but Cheryl got sixty six thousand dollars okay. I can't wait till link this story. Everyone needs to read it. It's what two years it's definitely more than a couple of years. Sold one of the best things that's ever been put. I honestly love it baby made of garbage. I really really really really love it. Okay so is this. So this is Cheryl rack or should know Cheryl got this okay brand. I think the first one actually the first one was from Esi NFL like sort of a logical because mostly when people give these tiny fridges. The other thing commute for besides desk diack fridge. Yeah is skin-care Fritsch Jessica brings more sense. I totally agree. I know that's getting here fridges. I've I've seen them before. I I love the idea that my bathrooms do small for it but your skincare supposed to be cold. I mean I know that like old ladies. Keep their now falls in the fridge that which is the SE thing which totally it can be easily. I'd never really heard that before but I accept it because I got a free rein and there was a coke in there too. I think like a bottle. Yup I'll take Ramey This is the most me I gr- skin Gary. You have made for Diko yes okay. How many hosts Finn Six Wall. Yeah so a day's worth it's a the morning. Yeah let's get crazy so I get the first one from Cheryl It works great for a really long time and then eventually it sort of black okay. It's a tiny fridge on your desk at work you hook brand makes it or that was another brand the brand that I then replaced it way. Okay personally with my from my own funds like a person would Is there and and it's they sell them on Home Depot. They're like something like thirty five dollars. Twenty to thirty range maybe. Even it's frigid air. Yeah and they want like a tiny retro fridge. She's the one that I got is tiffany blue. which is pretty yeah But that went honestly Kinda crap out after a shorter period of time you write a rude review. I did not but I know lifetime warranty on the DIKO. There is definitely a miniature for twenty five dollars for one candidate. Maybe the worst thing for the environment that I've ever in everything I do. I hear I hear you But so I told that to Cheryl. I was just like Oh. I replaced the tiny fridge that you gave me the and the new one crapped out really fast and she was like I just got another one from. Oh Gosh I forget which brand to our sorry to that brand but another brand sent her another fridge and you want this one and I was like I sure to so now. What are your desk? Meets your colleagues think of You know every three months. There's a new fridge on your desk. I mean I think they're impress. Is there a lock on it. So that people can't steal your diet coke. They consider putting on I. I really want to physically do it sure. Every morning I come to the office the the Diet Cokes. That are in the main fridge. That are not cold enough for me. I put them in my own fridge. Temperature you you're in control the temp no. It's just colder. Oh it's just A. It's an on off switch supercenters like are like I think it might be like a hot cold actually But Yeah it's it's which like what does that for I would love to be. I have a lot of question I would like to see it. But it Yeah I put a put a diet coke in there so it it's colder and take out the one that I left in there the day before which is very very cold. I'm colder than the ones I never have to stand up all day which is actually sort of annoying. Because sometimes they'll be like I need to walk around but I have no excuse. There's no that it's so I mean in twenty five dollars is like the exact and this is the kind of recommendation I love. Because it's like you're not looking to like no one's like needs a mini fridge. Yeah no one needs a mini fridge on their desk. Diet Coke is twenty nine ninety nine. Do you track your home. I got wait. Can I say handing you the phone right now. I'm like I need to see if there's a warranty on okay. I'm I'm sure there's very rhetoric vessel by. It's twenty nine ninety nine. It's marked down. Forty four ninety nine. You can save fifteen dollars Thirty three percent it's Home Depot's graciously pointed out. I'm not that good at math. It comes in black red and like a Nice T. L. which I assume is the tiffany blue Amazing really fun. I'm obviously going to buy one even though I'm like moving out of the state and a few months and like absolutely do not need to bring anything else to my house but who maybe three order one into arrive to you in California. That's a great idea like the inaugural thing in my house like a thirty dollar before anything else. You have this yet. That's all I need for my diet. Kasese and we can get into that later not have same workshop Pepsi. I didn't have Dakota I was in college. It's a cultural divide. It is I know friends. Anyway we've managed managed to make it work. I love that recommendation if the third one craps out will you be buying a fourth I I think I might have to switch brands at that point to one. That's no longer dollars but like like I am now so attached to having a tiny fridge on my desk that I don't think I could go back. Wow I just my life is saying that. Yeah it's also like it's a I think it's a great gift and maybe. CBS agreed to buy for yourself. But it's a good. That is such a fun gift and also at that price point that like if you are in an office where thirty dollars is like the Secret Santa Price Point like what a fun thing to get. Yeah like I would much prefer someone being like. Here's a free refrigerator for your soda than someone being like. Here's our Gift Card or whatever I'll say to lake. Sometimes I put my lunch in there if I like make and bring a lunch so there isn't a room I mean. Imagine like when you open it what does it look like. Are there arose or their little pockets in the door. There's a little removable look great. Yeah Yeah separator sort of suitable to the Diet Cokes. There you gotta Ah but yeah you can just take out depending on how but it doesn't fit everything obviously. It is a miniature fred now but like if you have a small lunch and a kind of office culture where people will steal food then you know you clammed it all up yourself. And we'll say I will say they'll last office. I worked at Buzzfeed and I love Buzzfeed so much but there is a real Stealing feeling from the communal fridge situation and there was a whole slack group where everyone would be like seriously just put like my farmer's market like scallions and the French took them and I think that you know any of my former colleagues listening I wanna see if I ever come back I want to see like You know a rose of of desk fridges. Yeah with padlocks. Look I think this is like it's not about sweet thing. I think this is office culture thing and there's a lot of people but it was really finding look inside of me like really guys is like I had a two day old Pinera Salad. Who wanted that gross that I really weird that you wanted to exactly we will link out out to meredith desk diet coke fridge from Home Depot and? I'll also do some research to see if I can get you even even better deal. There might be some good holiday sales on this. I think I'm going to get one for someone in my life. I hope it's a good gift. Yeah and and then I wanted to move onto. I was thinking about my parents and what I was going to get them for the holidays. Today's and I think that is a great thing for my Dad Dad. If you're my dad don't listen to this everyone else. I'm getting my dad all birds for Christmas And then my mom I was thinking about Out and I thought you know what this is the record. I'm that I've given before in the past and I'm GonNa put it to work and give it to my mom. It's only five dollars. It's going to have to go with something else. But she she recently got air pods. Oh what she calls it ear plugs or ear pods or like not the right name. She's so excited about them. She loves loves them and it's just like she's just like there's no court and it's like I know she's like I love that there's no court so but my mom is very. We had a really interesting conversation the other day I was strolling nells of Tj maxx alone. She called her on the phone for like forty five minutes. Just telling you that your pugs. And I'm like Mama. I gotTa get you a case ace like I really highly recommend this like five dollar Amazon Silicone case that carabiners your keys and it goes around the white cay severe. I thing I'm all show it to you but I think the sound of getting the keys out of my bag will be so loud like no one needs to hear that I mean maybe you do. I don't know if that's like what podcast people like like. Sounds imagine the Jingling of McKee's so it's just like a little case it goes on your key ring and it keeps you know your air pods in a place. Where with with the other things that you really don't WanNa lose so you're not gonNA lose your keys? Frani- like any huge amount of time right. So I put mine on my keys. So I'm saying this to my mom thinking that she's like Oh that's a great idea. These things are so expensive and she already advocates. Even you already have a case just like it came with the white one. I'm like no mom in case and and that's not the case but you know there's connecting. I put them in my pocket and And then I realized we were having a real freaky Friday moment where I was the mom being like you're got it was them and I'm not buying you another pair so I'm going to have to be responsible with your your Pug Charissa. You don't understand my everyone. Says they're not going to lose them and then everyone loses scam. And that's Topol makes its money and that's what Tim Cook is doing. So I'M GONNA get my Mama five dollar case which still open like. I told you I didn't want this will use it until this case is great in like six months and forget that you gave it to exact. We'll know she'll always remember but you'll forget the part where she didn't like it didn't like it. Yeah I mean I have a friend who as soon as she got. Air Pods dropped one subway great. That's what happens. It happened to not me but someone I know someone I know to. An Apple Apple knows this happens and sells sells one airport at a time right. They're like Oh we're not interested in fixing the whole thing that maybe you lose yours last if you lose them what you will because everyone does. We'll sell you like it. Just right one for like sixty bucks. Tim Cook you are a bitch But then this is my real recommendation that I brought it in the spirit of winter and the spirit of winter clothing which I love so much when you go shopping for clothing meredith. Do you like look at the tags. On how the clothing is supposed to be cleaned. Yes what are you look for. I look to see that it is not drake the only what about what you hand wash only situation in colder like colors. I think that I'm going to be a different person than I am. So what do you actually do throw it in the washer pulled. No I mean like I just don't wash it a lot. I just have like unclean closed that I don't wear as much as I would like to totally. That's what I or you just wear ongoing close. It's Okay I say I would definitely wear on Cleveland. You guys know Washer Dryer here and it's really expensive. I mean I do. I will say every other time. I've been in this room that we're in right now. I've been unduly. He cares podcast and I have talked with her about handwashing in this room so many times that I'm just like giving myself like she had washes and she has inspired heard me to hand wash. Occasionally I know it is not as bad as it seems but also it's really hard right and you have to find the space and you have to try it and you have the wrong and then you still have to turn between now and there's a little slickness to it because you didn't wash it correctly and like I use a portable washing machine In my house if your million Lord you're not listening they don't tell I mean. Don't tell my landlord this. We have a portable washing machine. Which means we wash everything in this thing? We air dry everything And the thing that I give the most most positive is my sweaters. What ends up happening is I get these great sweaters every year Last year two years ago my favorite sweaters from ever lane I bought three in that was like my whole Winter Ktar last year sweater. Was this Banana Republic situation that I love so much that I waited till everything went on Salem. I bought four in white and foreign gray like a true uh-huh honey mark Zuckerberg have eight of these sweat. I'm very much of what once I turned thirty. I was like I like four things and I'm buying twenty of each of these things because there's nothing worse than going to a store and being like do you still carry like the high rise low rise like where's the tippy. We don't have that anymore and I'm like right but we have this amazing Jean. That will look shitty on. You don't want it so every time I find something I like. I'm like well. You gotta I gotTa buy it up now so I have all these banana republic sweaters that I really love and they're super convenient but they're you know hand wash only so put them in the gentle cycle on the washing machine and I realized like they start to pill taking really quickly and in the past. I'm like I guess I just throw these swear now until my friend Julia last year was like you don't have to throw out your clothing. You can get a sweater shaver and I was like a what now. Who is the man who does I don't know over? And she sent me Lincoln. It's like this eleven dollar connor sweater. SHAVER battery operated off of Amazon or getting off of Amazon. And it has its. I have it right here and this is what it sounds like. That's good radio like a chainsaw. And you just rub it over. I'm making the Moshav took over my breasts which I'll just move down to my stomach rubbing over your sweater. Not While you're wearing it right you know you have the two right yes I do. You don't do so you have to be super delicate because they can cut a hole in your sweater but lay yes. So here's the here's the big twist this recommendation. I didn't actually know how to use it when I got it. I was just like I'm just going to do this on my favorite Banana Republic sweater cut a hole in my sweater. was doing it while I had it on. I mean luckily I have three more in the same color but I actually don't. I bought this sweater sweater shaver. But I don't know how to. I don't think I know how to use it. There are three settings at the top and for these lines. Yes you like. Click them and there's like a short line a medium short line and then a longer line and then there's a catchall for the The lint The lines I think are are sort of like how deep it'll go. I know what does that mean sweater has long taught me how to use this thing for you. I think and I'm no expert. I'm channeling Julia Right now. We were sounds and bring her brunner to us What I'm pretty sure you should just like to start layer sweater on the bed right? Flat flat flat Like with something underneath it and underneath like in the middle like where your body would be. So you're not doing like the front and the back touching no no Although maybe that is a good idea uh-huh cardboard or something. That's probably like we're sitting here like you. You think that buying the eleven dollars sweater shaver is the is the is the move. Yeah and then. I'm like wait wait. I accepted a learn how to this isn't just like as intuitive as I thought it's drew I can't believe but just start on the lowest one like figure out you know doing. Yeah like if if you think for a while. You're doing nothing that's better than you cut a head on it. Now do you move up and down in circles. How much do you hold it onto the pill? I moved in circles. I have no idea if that's right right. I'm telling you it feels correct. Yeah are there. Directions came with me. I'm sure whenever read direction though I google them later on. I like watching Youtube tutorials. I let an eleven year old. Tell me how to use the sweater. SHAVER brought. Tick Tock right exactly. It's like a baby. WHO's like first words were like? Here's our use saver fascinating. I mean that's the thing it's like. This thing costs eleven dollars where it could also cost you a sweater. If you don't use it correctly you're going to cut a hole in it. Luckily there was like It it felt the whole felt so strategic in my opinion that I still wear it anyway and I'm like Oh yeah my holy sweater. Yeah exactly. It wasn't too to bad and it was kind of on the side and I was like super comfortable but You know the caveat of buying the eleven dollars sweater shaver really anything except for the fridge. It's pretty self explanatory is. He's like you probably should read the directions before you put it to your Kashmir bite. I truly was stumped when I got to the lions because I couldn't really see a difference and I don't know if that's like the lines are a thing that exists because on the ninety dollars sweater shaver. That's the thing and I was like maybe on the eleven dollars. Just draw them on for yeah to make it. Looks Fancy but I really don't know but I guess I should watch the tutorial but either way holy recommend it holy Moly by regular. I commend it. I I wasn't gonNA say anything I heard myself say it. I couldn't let you didn't let it lie. I didn't let it live. That's when Harry met Sally we digress. Yeah I wanted to recommend it because I think at some point in my life. It's like it's like a time in my life when I did not own a vacuum the dust just lives there goes yeah well how would you get the dust question. What does everyone do about the I own to vacuum cleaners? Now thirty four sponsor and oh I got a Rumba and a regular stand back. You've got the Roomba. His name is Chevy. Wow I feel like that's a conversation for another day for sure. Oh Yeah But the sweater shaver felt like an adult purchase. Felt like you know just because I wear the sweater once and it pills I mean I have to throw away our donated or whatever yeah Walk around in a police while we're at least I think I might be doing. You're not I was just GonNa say she has this really pretty. It's made well. It has made long me. It's really cute. Thank you so how long until you expect. You'RE GONNA have to use the sweater shaver on this Probably like a month maybe in December. And how many times will you wear it between now and then countless times. Well Yeah we'll check back in with me in like six weeks to know So yeah it's the connor sweater shaver. Please like watching youtube aerial. I don't want to hear from you guys putting holes near sweaters but maybe if you bought six letters of the same sweater to begin with if you could be as flipping putting holes in your clothing as I am Yeah and so we have the sweater shaver. That's twelve dollars dollars the silicon air earplugs case. Five bucks you can. Actually you know what I haven't really played also in Tiffany blue because I wanted to be able to see it it in my bag but I got kinda bored the other day and I was looking around for other cases for my mom. And there's Mike Funny Ones. There's like a French fry and there's like an avocado but then they're like thirteen dollars and I'm like that's a lot of money like four dollars. A lot of money and thirteen dollars is a lot of money. Four seven yes and this is just a truly functional purchase us. But I'm not trying to tell anybody anything by Avocado Air POD case. I mean like it's fun though and when things are fun instead of not fun. Yeah I don't know that's I tonight in bucks I've spent more money on dumber things I mean. I have a desk fridge first. Soda keep replacing. But I I've only bought one okay but you have said you were going to buy more. Oh It's going to happen you want to be buried. I mean unless people want to give it. Give me right if any desk frigid air. If you're out there you have one one extremely satisfied customer. I would like for your last longer though for you. So Amazing America. Thank you so so much for coming on g things just bought it and for your recommendations. I'm really excited to buy my dad all birds for Christmas this year and for him to not understand you know because he already has a Paris niggers but for in six months may be say you know I have worn those three times now and I really like them so I will check back in with you in June. Let you know how that's going. Thanks so much for coming on. Thanks for having me all right and as always thank you guys so much for listening. We will link to all the products we talked about on this episode of G. Thanks just bought it in the comments or wherever wherever it is that we link these products to and if you have a recommendation or something that you loved or you bought something at the recommendation of this podcast and its guests. Please let me know

Amazon Golf Cheryl whichever Banana Republic America Dad Aubert youtube San Francisco Home Depot connor US Nike instagram Netflix Meredith dockery Drexel Auburn
S2:E9 - Meredith Perich

Pause

00:00 sec | Last month

S2:E9 - Meredith Perich

"Hi. I'm Bob Sweater and welcome to cause at home and Alberta's social innovation connect podcasts. We hope you've been enjoying the thought provoking conversations the past few months about the big questions that are on people's mind through the covid nineteen pandemic as it relates to systems change. Is the conversations parks new thoughts for you. Please share in the comments of your favorite listening platform and let us know you think. On today's episode, we have Meredith Parish joining us from momentum. Momentum is a community economic development organization that uses economic approaches to alleviate poverty in Calgary. Meredith question is a two part question, two sides to one coin one being negative and the other being positive. On the one hand, the pandemic has created incredible demonstrations of collaboration and innovation. But on the other hand, it's also highlighted a lot of inequity. We're seeing that our systems really aren't set up to support everyone your thoughts on this two part question with host at least Marsk. Lovely. Thank you for being humiliated and chatting with me today on pause at home. I'm looking forward to the conversations that we're going to have today around the fractures that we've seen in our system vulnerabilities abilities through the COVID pandemic and the economy as well as we're having the future and what things might be able to take their. So before we get started into the questions could you introduce yourself along with what you do? Yes of course So thank you so much for having me first of all. My name is meredith and I work with momentum here. Calgarians. So for anyone who doesn't own momentum the Community Economic Development Organization. That uses economic approaches to poverty in Calgary, and so we believe that every person should have access and be able to participate. Fully, in the economy and work towards a shooting that and so as you can imagine that works sort of necessitates a number of of very broad indifference approaches in order to be effective as that's working not only with people who are experiencing poverty, which is a large body of work at momentum in and of itself, but also with the policymakers, community champions and businesses to and so the work I do specifically fits into sort of that second category we operate a network of community focused businesses called the local network offer training programs for individuals looking to develop socially minded local businesses an work at a systems level to really create the environment for these activities to be successful. and. So the rationale behind that work is the understanding that of course, if we're, it will create the conditions for an inclusive economy by as sort of supporting and furthering the work of others who care about the same things that we do. Will ultimately be further ahead in our mission. Amazing. Thank you for being here until with everything changing and happening just on a daily basis. Things are so rapid right now, it leads to lots of questions and thoughts on her mind, and if you'd like to share the first part of your question that would be lovely and I do know that it is both the economy and to make sense paired with what you do for work. Yeah of course. So yeah as I have mentioned before it's sort of A. Two part question. That I hold. So the first part being a sort of reflecting on what said Copeland Nineteen has revealed about the economy so far and so. I think in terms of this question, there have been some really just incredible demonstrations of collaboration and innovation I during this pandemic but it's also highlighted a lot of of course, inequality, Moore inequity where our systems really aren't as up to support everyone, and so they're sort of that positive in that negative this I'm thinking through right now I and so on. That first part of you know as stewards of the local network, we've witnessed businesses collaborating in some really innovative. I am bold ways. And funnily enough. I truly do credit the pandemic actually per providing a sort of the destruction as to make that possible. There's like no rulebook as they say for operating a business during a pandemic and I think that's really meant that businesses are able to really show up for each other in a different way than previously. In. So I actually I think the album was a previous guest of this podcast and so I'll maybe ucla him as an example has been collaborating with a of other businesses and organizations I in our network at generous solutions. For suicide prevention as well as a number of local. Firemen foods wires to offer virtual. I live cooking class. We've had so many businesses in our network offer up there like warehousing space or restaurant space. For example, on to share resources with one another we host networking events and have just these really wonderful large groups show up for these sort of collaborative networking conversations and so even able to support these kinds of. Conversations in collaborations in really exceeded an intensive ways it's really quite different than. Before. I'd say in that way, it's also affected us in our own work. In that, we're able to consider opportunities to lend this kind of tangible support that just really wasn't part of our work before So I'll give we launched the be local store, for example. So this sort of came out of a recognition that many businesses were struggling with the needs of get online quickly amid pandemic and dealing with lots of overhead and figuring out you know the Logistics Oba delivery system. and. So we thought, okay, why don't we create a marketplace where customers can access products across local businesses a number of local businesses in one sort of simple transaction and businesses can access multiple customers with only one drop off delivery per week, and we sort of a centralized the rest of of that for them and so yeah, there's a great learning there obviously in like Howard, flexing our muscles and Engaging and supporting the local economy and observing. How clever and open businesses have been? I mean comments about that actually just in a recent episode. Remember she back now about how I started seeing a shift to local practices. A lot of people I follow on social media supporting local more often or at least showing that they're supporting local more often which I love to see and I also love brought in the piece of how the different local organizations are helping. Each other out is we are coming back to this sensitive can be during the pandemic in. That's an opportunity that we might not have had without the pen. Yeah. Yeah it's really awesome and yeah, just lovely to observe in the local network. You know it's a values based business networking so We're comes together with this understanding that we have these shared I values and understanding of collaboration reciprocity and. You know what says sort of sustainable communities look like and so it's really been really wonderful to see businesses sort of acting out those those values during this time. So. These are all sort of like a positive reflections that we've had in engaging in the local economy during this time but there's also as sort of this other piece of inveigling inequity and so what we observe I really is that those who are more vulnerable economically but are also Moore have been sort of disproportionately negatively affected by a copay ninety nine I've been challenging myself to think about. How do we make the economic system more robust so that everyone can withstand. These shocks when they occur. And so. Now. They've kind of tied up that pace around how it showing the tracks in the economy. Should we jump forward to how are we GONNA? Keep keep the good things that have been happening throughout the pandemic moving forward and also address the vulnerabilities that have become present as well. So then looking forward. I have mentioned the question in sort of a sitting with is, can we use some of these lessons or observations to shape the way? That we really like emerge from this. And I think part of it requires a letting go of this notion of when things go back to normal. A phrase. You sometimes hear right and instead being willing to dominated discussion with a new narrative as. A, what do we want our new normal to look like and so I just recognizing nets business models have changed our entire economic climate has changed and so yeah, I suppose I. Really Hope that we're able to look at this sort of a a fresh perspective that is okay with a future that doesn't look like the past, and so I think that's one piece of it and I think that is happening to some extent. For example, as I mentioned to a before I've been I'm really quite excited by how discussions of universal basic income have been making their way into sort of the mainstream at just an indicator even that people are understanding a need for more socially robust. Economy, and I've spoken to some business owners in the network who have completely changed their business models during this very short time period I and really take the perspective that you know this is their new business model and they're not going back. Then of course, there are others as sort of can't wait to go. Back to normal as they say and so I'm like I said the question I'm just sort of holding his how can we continue these collaborations and innovations and continue the conversations that are sort of critically examining the cracks in our system so that we can all come out stronger. Yeah. You bring in a very neat point. There have how do we balance the two of getting back to normal in the like the good things that used to be our normal. But then how do we do we move to a new system that is supporting people and organizations and things that were supported for the pandemic like this strange balance need to fix a lot of these vulnerabilities we also want to be able to do some of the things and yeah definitely interesting teeter totter I picture at us. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. In terms of forward, you know I hope these questions. But then have to ask myself okay like how how do we make these things possible or reality, and so I know I certainly have a desire for this sort of new and improved economic system coming out of a pandemic and I think it is possible I think for example, there are ways that public policy can support in terms of supporting the solar, the local economy supporting local for crewmen procurement from. March lines, groups, and black indigenous people of color. For example, I think there are ways that businesses can continue these conversations and I think that individuals can also make really for change simply by where they choose to spend and save in those. Sort of small choices that we make every day. and. So yeah I'm just or Novem challenging myself I suppose now to dive in each one of those things a little bit more in understands like what are the the tangible actions that we take in each of those areas to move this forward I'm also interested to understand more about. Sort of what's happening in the ecosystem to for these conversations as well. Yeah good point we've been talking about these big questions not elec comes after this like having, we actually do this and move it forward and yeah not. Too old practices. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely and I think Yeah. That's where we can really start seeing some like lasting change as well. Yeah I hope we do see some change come from this. I'm I'm thinking we will, and I'm hopeful we will and I guess we'll have to. Wait and see makes action that it happened. No. Absolutely. When one of the things that I wanted to to bring back up because I just loved it he said, we need to make the economic system more robust and start looking at it in different ways in fixing these vulnerabilities that we're seeing and you also brought up the point that the pandemic has had. Two Sides to the coin. It's curious the positive things that have come from it like you said, this collaboration bringing back to community, and then also these negative things that it's hit a lot of communities harder than some an it's young as we need to start doing something about that and not not not that we haven't seen that before but I think maybe it's been the fire underneath a lot of people to start getting those things really moving into practice so. Yeah absolutely. The example that comes to mind for me when we're thinking about that is. Sort of the effects of Kobe's in some of these tacking facilities, for example, writes in it's like, okay. While we then should question like what are the demographics that are primarily working in these conditions and questioning if that plays a role in how we've responded. or The working conditions that they're they're in that allows us to happen right and then also asking ourselves. Okay. We'll. What are the supports in place that? Yeah allow us to support people through that I. Think about people and Care Facilities, for example, who are perhaps more vulnerable and who are also more vulnerable to the pandemic. And how do we really and tip the scales a little bits so that their treated more equitably during the pandemic? During and then even like you said afterwards. Pandemic hopefully. Yeah. Yeah, just changing those systems. Yeah. Yeah. Well, this has been a wonderful conversation. Thank you for for sharing thoughts that are on your mind in the questions you're sitting with and actionable items moving forward of how to keep the questions questions going. Oh, of course. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. Anytime come. Back. Thanks for tuning into this episode of 'cause in the spirit of reconciliation, we acknowledged that the homes we live in and now working report podcasts from are situated on lands that were until relatively recently used and cared for exclusively by indigenous peoples. We acknowledge the past present and future generations of first nations Mateen Innuendo who have traditionally gathered in and cared for our land. If you enjoyed this episode please help us out by sharing it with a friend and rating on your favorite listening platform. We don't love to feature your question on a future episode. FINEST APP obse connect dot ca slash get hyphen involved for more information on how to be a guest. We'd like to her funding partner, the core energy, foundation producer, and editor at least not of obse connect and theme music. Creator Eilly Aurora have a fantastic rest of your day.

Community Economic Development Meredith Calgary Moore Pandemic Meredith Parish Bob Sweater Marsk Alberta Copeland Mateen Innuendo Eilly Aurora Howard Novem partner Kobe producer editor one hand
Why COVID-19 poses a special risk during pregnancy, and how hair can split steel

Science Magazine Podcast

00:00 sec | 3 months ago

Why COVID-19 poses a special risk during pregnancy, and how hair can split steel

"Welcome to the PODCAST for August Seventh Two Thousand Twenty I'm Sarah Crespi. First, up to speak staff writer Meredith Blattman talks about why covid nineteen poses a special risk during pregnancy. Next Gianluca Rissoli describes the microscopic mechanism for how body hair damages razor blades. First. Up this week, we have staff writer Meredith Wiedeman she wrote about corona virus and pregnancy. Hi, Meredith? Hi? Sarah. Okay. As it seems kind of to always the case these days there are a lot of open questions about corona virus and something else. In this case it's pregnant women like are these women at greater risk for more severe infections can the virus infected fetus? How likely is transmission at birth from an infected mother Maribeth? I know you don't have answers to all these questions but let's start with what are some solid trends at this point. For example are pregnant women more at risk if they're infected, it seems to be the case that they are although the data is very incomplete given though what the consequences are from a severe infection, it's really better to err on the side of caution and assume that. Yes, they are at increased risk and that wouldn't be totally surprising because it's known from our understanding of other respiratory viruses that women can get much more severe infections and have worse outcomes. That's particularly well established for influenza and it's thought to be the case for SARS Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome. That's caused by a similar virus. That's a close cousin of the new corona virus. There are a couple of biological factors that point to why this might be the case particularly how the immune system changes during pregnancy. How might that contribute to more severe infections? The immune system in pregnancy is like a moving target it's constantly adjusting HASTA. Hit this tricky balance of still repelling foreign invaders but not rejecting the fetus, which after all half of the fetus is not from mom and might look foreign to the immune system and what can happen is that things get outta whack perhaps there are worse infections than might have otherwise been the case. At the same time we know that the new corona virus causes really severe inflammation in particularly serious cases of infection. And if the mother's immune system is also active as it is in pregnancy, it's possible. Some experts think that this. Piles on with additional inflammation and that you get a worse situation than you would have had had mom not been pregnant. So it's not well understood but it's thought that there can be unhealthy interplay pregnancy also puts stress on the long Lewis and the cardiovascular system these are both too targets of Kobe eighteen. How is the body affected by pregnancy in such a way that the lungs cardiovascular system are harmed and how does Cova nineteen effect the lungs cardiovascular system sure. Will you imagine if the woman particularly as she goes into later pregnancy in the fetus larger and larger has decreased breathing room That is GonNa, make any respiratory infection in which you're breathing capacity is being affected by the infection itself. That's going to double down and make it even tougher to adequately oxygen at your blood. You basically have less room to breathe right and that's a serious impediment. If you're already sort of breathing at bat reduced level and then you have a virus causing an infection that is filling some of your breathing space with fluid, you can imagine how you could get into serious trouble quite quickly. What about the cardiovascular issues and how does that interact with the new corona virus? Well there's a couple of things one just the amount of work I mean the body. So amazing women pump by the time they're in late pregnancy, fifty percent more blood than they normally have. So there's a ton of blood circulating and that can lead to lots of fluid exiting into the lungs and making a bad problem worse, and then we know that the virus cannon does have bad effects on the heart and blood vessels which are already under strain because of the pregnancy. So again, the virus is potentially aiding and making worse this part that's kind of punching at the. Top of its weight already, there's a final effect that's not fully understood and not fully pin down, but it's known that the corona virus causes increased clotting in some patients. The blood has more of a tendency to clot will guess what in pregnancy the blood already has more of a tendency to plot. So now you layer an increased tendency to clot on top of an increased tendency to clot, and you can see where women can also get into trouble with clotting, which independently been a problem in serious of covid nineteen. We just talked about how the virus pregnancy my. Interact in a negative way. What is the evidence for the fact that women fare worse when pregnant and infected with a new coronavirus will there was a much notice steady that came out of the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention late in June that showed that pregnant women with Cova. Did were up to fifty percent more likely to end up in intensive care and seventy percent more likely to end up needing a breathing machine. Then they're infected but non-pregnant peers. Now there, there's some caveats to that study number one they were not more likely to die which is reassuring. Number two even though this was a lot of pregnant women that CDC looked at about ninety, one thousand, it was only twenty eight percent of all the women of reproductive age that have had covert and have had their covert reported to. CDC, through early June. Why is that? Because these reports have a box that say check pregnancy status? Yes pregnant no not pregnant and many many basically seventy, two percent of the reports that CDC received came in without either. Box, checked, and so they couldn't use that data and that makes the study quite incomplete. There's a more comprehensive but much smaller study that was published by the public. Health Agency of Sweden into lie and it found that the women who were pregnant for landing in ICU, at six times the rate of non-pregnant women what's unique about this study is captured. All ICU. Missions in. Sweden and it used Disa- dominator, all non-pregnant and all pregnant women of reproductive. Agents Sweden. This study was very small however in the end only thirteen corona virus, infected pregnant women, and forty non-pregnant infected women were admitted to Swedish I see us in the timeframe of the study. So we have two studies that show strong trends, but they both leave something to be desired. Yeah one incomplete and one a small right turning to the fetus. There is some good news here unlike other viral infections we know about like rubella or Zeka. This novel coronavirus doesn't appear to cause birth defects so far what evidence do we have that that is not a problem really were kind of. Wait and see game. If you think back, the pandemic really took hold in China in January and the time when fetuses are most susceptible to having their development really affected by virus so that they are born blind or death four with those small skulls that we find the babies is during the first trimester. That's when the fetus is particularly vulnerable. So were just beginning now to get say the burs to Chinese women who were eight weeks pregnant in January we don't have the evidence yet, but what seems clear is that if there was a major problem and you had now dozens. Or hundreds or even thousands of Chinese babies being born affected profoundly by this virus in a first trimester sort of way then you would be getting out case reports out of China that this is happening and were not getting that we contacted several Chinese obstetricians. Now granted, they cautioned us that their numbers are small and this is by no means comprehensive but they were cautiously optimistic that this is not happening. You also need to think about in the United States, say you were eight weeks pregnant on April first well, now, your baby is certainly big enough to be having imaging by. Ultrasound scan that would become a very shrunken skull for instance, were not getting those reports in this country what might protect the fetus in this case yen I should call a five that by saying as far as we know, then there's a couple posited reasons. One is that rebels Eka and cytomegalovirus another virus that commonly hurts fetuses early in pregnancy are blood born they travel around the human body in the blood a lot, and during the first trimester, the placenta is just forming and it is not that formidable a barrier to blood-borne infections. That's why fetuses savant in the first trimester. But with Corona virus, it seems that it rarely travels via the blood that it might have moments of doing so in they're certainly isolated cases of its doing. So but it's not invading the blood for the length of time in the level that these other fetus damaging viruses do. So that is somewhat reassuring a second piece is that the krona virus needs certain molecules in order to invade cells and there was a new study out of the National Institute on. Child Health and human development published just earlier this month that found that the two enzymes that corona virus commonly uses in tandem to invade cells are not present at the same time in placental cells I signed to slipped from beginning to end. And found negligible simultaneous expression presence of these two enzymes in placental cells. So that too is reassuring. One thing researchers are concerned about is feudal growth when the pregnant woman has corona virus wise that worry several studies have been done of. PLACENTAS. After delivery from women who were infected with clone virus, there was one from a subset in a very large. Series of women who were admitted for Labor and delivery at three New York hospitals in March and April, and the scientist there looked at twenty nine placentas from covert infected mothers and found that nearly half of them. Fourteen should signs of clots fetal side of the placentas. So possibly stopping maternal nutrients and oxygen from getting into feed the fetus and support it. At the same time, an examination of sixteen placentas by researchers at northwestern university found that fully fifteen of them had damage to the blood vessels and maternal blood supply on the maternal side of the placentas. So again, possibly stopping nutrients and oxygen from getting to the fetus. So both of these groups of scientists advise that when there is a covert infection in pregnancy ups, attrition should follow very carefully the rate of fetal growth and make sure throughout sound scanning that it's preceding as it should. What about when the baby is born? Is there a big risk that infected mother could in fact the baby during birth or soon after? So there is a lot of attention on this issue. The good news is that feel infection at around the time of birth seems to be rare. The one study I mentioned of women who were infected with covert who committed to New York hospitals. There were seventy women who gave birth to seventy one babies and just one of those babies became infected. That being said, it's under debate right now, how do you gauge infection and a newborn? For instance, if they've just popped out and you're giving them a nasal swab well, they're not gonNA have breathed in Corona virus. If they're infected, it's can have come through the placenta and so of course, a nasal swab is not going to turn it up. Then there's questions around now you separate mother and baby does she breastfeed what about infection during the birth process? All those things are being closely examined and I think it's a a state of uncertainty that's reflected in the fact that depending on which advisory. talked to or look at their recommendations some say mother and Babe should be separated others say, no, it's something that's in process. Not a good thing to be uncertain about yeah. Exactly. After the baby is out postpartum, the mother's body goes through a lot of changes does her risk I severe illness from corona virus infection go down really quickly actually know and this is something I was surprised and interested to learn and think it's really important for doctors and women to be paying attention to is that in the immediate time after birth again, I'm going back to this Big New York study it found that women who? Had Cove infection in fact, were more likely to have complications including hospital readmission and decreased blood oxygen and fever in the period immediately after birth. So it's important. Don't just you know send these women home on their merry way observed them check on them and women themselves should be attentive to if they're feeling poorly in those immediate few days after birth marathon so much that we need to know about this what kinds of studies are you keeping an eye on? Now I'm really looking for several registries that are accruing pregnant and non pregnant women and following them during pregnancy and for their outcomes, we need thousands of women. Without participation and large numbers of women were not GonNa have solid answers to these questions, even six or eight months or two years from now. We'll meredith four we wrap up I wanNA remind people who maybe very disturbed by this information that the best thing to do is to avoid contracting corona virus. We know how to do that. We know how to keep ourselves safe and that's probably the best advice you can have at this point for anybody who is worried about Cova during pregnancy absolutely David bowed, who is an expert at Lasagna hospital said to me the first ones who need the masks pregnant women the first to. Avoid social contacts should be pregnant women and I just don't think folks can take that too much to heart. All right. Thank you so much meredith. Thanks a lot Sarah. It's been great talking to you meredith. WADDEN is a staff writer for science. You can find a link to her story and all of our coronavirus coverage at science mag dot org slash podcast stay tuned for an interview with Gianluca Rissoli. We talk about how sharp blades are damaged by soft things like cheese and potatoes. This week's episode is brought to you in part by Kiwi Co Q. CO create super cool hands on projects designed to expose kids to concepts in stem art and design all from the comfort of home care because mission is to help kids build confidence, creativity and critical thinking skills and have a blast while doing it. Each crate is designed by experts and tested by kids and teaches a new steam concept each boxes delivered monthly and comes with all the supplies needed for that month project plus detailed kid-friendly instructions and enriching magazine filled with more about the crates theme. Each lime caters to different age groups and our variety of topics with Rico's hands on art and science projects. Kids can engineer walking robot blast off a bottle rocket explore, colorful, kid-friendly chemistry, and more all from the comfort of home. They have everything you need to make steam seriously fun delivered to your doorstep get thirty percent off your first month on select traits at Qa. Co Dot Com Slash magazine that's K. I W I C O dot, com slash magazine. Why does sharp blades become dull even when they only cut soft things like cheese potatoes it seems like a simple question we've been making sharp cutting leads for a very long time, and of course, we've been sharpening them as they get dull but the precise interaction between a sharpened edge and a softer surface has been very difficult to analyze Gianluca risk Shirley colleagues write this weekend science about the microscopic meetings that make it possible for hair to deform steel high Gianluca. Are, you trying to figure out how something wears down over time? Are you asking a more specific question is research was born as a case study on network process everybody can think of resear- blades or knives getting build over time you to wear processes. But then we realized during the experiments that was not the case in fact, blades get bill by several chiefs for me. Along the sharp sharp-edged that makes these sharp-edged becoming less and less people have been making sharp blades for a really long time. Why has this been so difficult to study we have been making blades for more than two thousand years. So we are experts in producing blades that if you're part is actually to study why they fail and what is happening at the microscope. Using. Kathy operation. In these one of the big challenges for this study since it is difficult to usually visa allies do the cutting us what is happening in the material of the blade when it is cutting small objects like a single here, and that is why in our experiments, we have to use the company electron microscope when Perform Bay shaving experiment the NC, right. So this is a really neat setup and the images and videos that come out of. It you know showing the close up interaction between hair and blade are just amazing. But one of the things you can see from this is that the angle matters what was different about cutting straight across the hair vs matching an angle that a razor is designed to take the difference. Sir Is that if you all the if indeed, you ladder with respect to the blade no cheating unknowable failure of the blade instead the problem comes when. You go to a morally Cincinnati embiid free abandoned. These free bending is king far is stressed on the blade along different directions and depending on the direction of the applied stress you can get different mode search monitor these different angles the way the blade is stressed by the hair. The planes at the stress occurs at in this interaction between the blade and the hair, and so all these modes you found one that was most likely to cause chipping in the blade. These was an inside that was not a penny for every year at So these is what pushed us to dive more into details because. The Mora, some other factors taking place cell in addition to the fact that the hair is free to bend and can change its angle and how it exerts pressure on the blade. What other factors are important for this chipping process? That are two main other factors. The I is the presence of US parodies along the sharp edge. What are as parodies. Roughness if you zoom in the microscopic stale, you can see that these. Is actually rough. We show that they not where this Stroz the. sedation is the notch. The chorus owns do the edge of the being kept only some aspera. These resent the stress of using the nation but as you can imagine these, but there that is not controllable from an engineering point of view because duty shaving subsequent, they will be on different positions along the sharp edge and so if you ever spirit is it was is over time, will for sure expedience isis end the Sakon factor that affects laid failure is the presence of either gene the. Commercial Blades are made up of several different materials you know to the I. It looks like one thing. But at the microscopic level, there are important differences because of this blend of materials. Yes. The mechanical. Are Different from point the by inside the material the more you go into the details, the morte genius. Become. So. When I look at the pictures in the paper, it really does look very much like I dunno confetti is just so many different materials all packed into this laid. Yes. Yeah. It doesn't look like one solid thing anymore. Once you start to look at the individual components and that's fine structure in. What we showed the from Iowa experiments is that if you? Hit it. Oh, genius material of one of specifically ahead of the not shows the stress and in addition if they load do today cut off, the air is applied on the more compliant face next to the extent They crack is more likely to propagate and what we have shown that we these experiments is the you form this chiefs when the commission of fifty factors is in order to meet three factors sold together probably this at very low but over captains several thousand survey when you shave. Also. These low probability becomes more likely and this is why you're blades don't feel right away but they fail over time and this is where. You need to shop any or. Throw it away if you're about disposable razor blade right. There are many places where blades are UC manufacturing and cutting on all kinds of places like that. How can what you've learned here in this study be used to improve blades more generally is something where you can say I'll cut it a different angle or use less heterogeneous materials those kinds of things the parameters they can play with. The roughness along the sharp edge for sure. But then usually depends on the material. The Blade is made of Yousaf no along the sharp edge easing insecurity linked to the gene in material, and therefore digestion would simply be too fine. A Modem Agena SMITHVILLE. But, a them at Delaware businesses. Such as most gala that he looks comic genius from the view of as sharp edge, does it really make sense to? The material that were using for razor blades or should we just keep throwing them out because it would cost more money to make them from something more homogeneous of course, from the view of a company producing blades it he's consumers to throw away their blades athletic may money, but if you think about it from. Mental point of view. It has consequences. In nineteen ninety, t the but Mentha Protection Agency estimated. Ways to be over chew billions of race or thrown out these causes problems because these waste is, of course, a sharp objects when you shave, it can also produce biological waste. What other improvements could you see and making lades in the future will we felt could be the best way is sweat shortly, modify the process of producing blades at the moment sharp edges are produced by. Instead the we felt of a different way to produce sharp edges where you can simply deform your Mattila into a almost wedge shaped, push it until your in the sharp edge. So you're not removing material anymore by compassionate these allows you also to use. Of Materials Mary interesting. This has been interesting conversation where that we all think we know like gotTa make something sharp. Described these highly technical terms it makes you realize that you don't really know happens it's been great. Yes. There their tools that we use every day and most people don't realize how much thinking that is behind. This'll so much that they are engineer in order for us to use them in an easy way. Yeah for sure. Thank you so much. Gianluca fixture Gianluca Showy is D. student in Tucson group in the Department of Materials, science and engineering and MIT can find the link to his science paper at science. Mag Dot org slash podcast. And that concludes this edition of the Science podcast if you have any comments or suggestions for the show, right to us at science podcast at as dot Org. Can listen to the show on the science website at science mag dot org slash. PODCAST. On the site, you'll find links to research and news discussed in the episode. and. Of course, you can subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts. The show was edited produced by Sarah Crespi with production help from podgy Meghan Cantwell. Angel- Goldberg Jeffrey? Composed the music. On behalf of Science magazine and its publisher triple as thanks for joining us.

Sarah Crespi Cova CDC staff writer Gianluca Rissoli United States engineer New York Sweden Meredith influenza late pregnancy ICU China Meredith Blattman Meredith Wiedeman Maribeth
Starting 9 Episode 127 - Meredith Wills

Starting9

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

Starting 9 Episode 127 - Meredith Wills

"Her the book back to starting nine episode one twenty seven twenty seven getting up up there the guest on today's podcast Dallas. Won't you tell us a little bit about this. Because it's a very interesting topic of conversation conversation surrounding the game of baseball today and you went down and and you got a little interview for the for the ground crew here. Did we rolled our sleeves up grounds unscrew. I did Meredith Wills astrophysicist. She the guardian of Baseball's else she she's got a she's going to her to say about the integrity the construction the reconstruction of love the baseball the game that I love the game that we hold so near near our hearts jared is being fondled with and Meredith is here to put it into it or at least she's here to pull back the covers and give us a sneak peek at what the fuck is going on inside the baseball so without further ADO Meredith Wills astrophysicist Dr Wills and I at the Oakland Coliseum of that. I love that so that'll be coming up. this was This is a big week in baseball. Also I will tell you this Dallas US and J. A private conversation was conducted this past weekend. a hatchet may have been buried really with an individual that. I think you're you guys are both Miller with them is a prominent name in today's game and it was it was an off the record type deal. There was an after the record type deal but I but I walked away from that conversation feeling like a like a weight had been lifted from my shoulders so that individual already has been a starting starring nine guests. He's going to be a starting nine guest again sometime. Presumably in the future his name is allison. Oh Aaron Boone you got to talk to you got to catch up with Buni only did Pablo. I know if I saw him out. Stabs choke him out now. Talk about what what booty out for you is. It was just a man to man type thing was there was there. was there any apologies I'm not sorry for anything so I say that I did say that you were going to be the one apologizing I didn't. He has nothing to be sorry for. I just no there weren't any apologies. It was more just a a man to man a heart to heart and I saw picture around making its way around the interwebs careless and if I'm just reading body language and and again look. I know you can't do anything about this Mother Nature. You are slightly looking up to Aaron. He's looking down at you but it's more about him. Kind of looking down at you going. It's okay. It's okay and you're kind of looking up at him like look I had to. That's why so you can understand dad to fight like that's actually you know you'd. You'd assume that's probably what it was like. Hey listen. I didn't mean it like that. No there's there's no apologizing organizing and there was no like inbetween apologizing. It was kind of just it was just baseball guy to baseball guy. There are no apologies to be had it was it was just it was is a bonding moment. There's a bonding moment and and we'll keep it at that. A couple of baseball guys was able to hear you over what I have heard his can only be described as deafening and record-setting decibel levels of New York New York coming being out of the visitor's clubhouse inven- way park that was after the game and I honestly I'm not gonNa comment on that because I don't have anything nice to say and now I after if I don't have anything nice to say about the Yankees. I'm just not going to say anything at all so I'm I'm only going to say Nice things about the Yankees moving forward. If I have something nice to say they won't be forced. It won't be forced but I'm just not going to be mean we turn over a new leaf at something good to see yeah love to see that another interview in the tank we had Archie Bradley and Alex Young in Studio today that that interview when it drops. I say we probably drop it in the next couple of weeks here rob ably my favorite interview. Whoever we we had a great time looked truth be told I had some some technical difficulties to say the very least I was scrambling trying trying to find chargers to to make this entire day possible and the rocket stood his ground and and as he always does knocked it out of the fucking park with these guys I was finally able to come around and get plugged into the situation and had a little two you point oh interview stash and I'm with you like I have. I have never felt it to be more valuable of my time than to run around on my apartment building with no fucking choose on once pat lake up just basically begging for electricity and charging capability so that we talk to these dudes and it was well worth every fucking flight of stairs. I had to climb well worth it and then we went over an hour with them. yeah easily. I mean this folks at one point. In time I had my head buried between my legs and I was laying on my back on my couch with camera over top. That's where this thing went all over the place it got to a point where Archie Bradley and I were face timing. Jd Martinez to see who answered to see who he answered. I stay tuned for that. Yeah Yeah Yeah and jared jared did what like basically when you see a big dog and a little dog and counter each other in the same dog dog park and the little dog takes a p and then you watch the big dog come over and he'll just like shit and piss right on that spot and maybe even on the dog as well. That's what was happening with the ownership. Jd Martinez between jared and Archie Archie was like yeah. You know maybe who knows. Maybe we get him on the phone. and I kind of hinted around at the contract situation because archie can't do that because that would be tampering. We don't allow that Major League do that or we just don't do that. Jared made made it very abundantly clear like no are at ain't happening. Jd Is Geez my guy. He's our guy in eight fucking going anywhere right but it could be because the red sox probably will be fired now. You're fired. Dave Dombrowski Hausky easily was fired on Sunday night. this was shocking but not shocking because this was a situation action where he was basically lame duck. It didn't have his contract extension that he reportedly asked for several times from the Red Sox organization he wanted job security like all of us just want to know hey. What's The fucking deal here. My GonNa be here next year because if not I'm going to go. I'm going to go spend time with the family. I'M GONNA go. Don't do what I WANNA do. so it came out Sunday night. I was at fenway. I think like they're either reports or the team said that it happened at midnight. Those are false. Those are lies. this happened around like the third inning is Kinda when it made its way to me and I was like Oh oh shit and I started you know like sending out a little tax here on a I know you're up there in the press box or Hey Steve Back in New York. You don't go to bed after the game. We're probably going to have to do an emergency pod here because Dave Dombrowski is getting fired and it sounds sounds like people are gonNA find out tonight. It sounded like a non didn't sound amicable did not sound like got a peaceful separation. It sounded like there was some animosity on Dave Dombrowski side which you can't really blame the guy for it's the way that I look at the situation right now is that Dave Dombrowski did everything that he was supposed to do. He came. I'm as advertised. He sure he's going to spend the owners money. He's GonNa deal from bench. Harrington's prospects but he's GonNa help build a winner and you had the core poor. You have the young guys in place you already had Benintendi. You had Mukhi yet you had Jackie. You had zander the core was are there divers You just need to supplement it. He went out trained for sale sign price trade for Kimbrell and then even some of the Little Moose Trade for Steve Pearce trade great for Nathan evolved these these moves all helped construct the greatest team in red sox but then you kind of have to look at it as is Dave uh-huh Brodsky the guy that we want to navigate the waters of as Dallas says jd Martinez opting out this this off season should we trade mookie betts. Is he going to be treated. Where's it going to be treated to. Where what are we going to get for them. if the answer that question is this isn't the Guy that we want to sort of build the next great red sox team the now. It'd be the time to to part ways of them. I'm sure there are a lot of people out there. There were thinking oh Dave Dave Dombrowski Rasi. Just one you a world series and you're going to fire him. After one bad year after he won three straight division titles in a in a in a world series building the best team in team history you're gonNA fire him. After are one bad year. That's not really what this is. This is more just like what's his forte what's his. Mo and at the time when they brought him in they needed what Dave Dombrowski was all about and he did what he was supposed to do and he built that team. I gotta ask you this next great team. It's it's just not. You're not going to build the next great red sox team the way the Dave Dombrowski does things. It's gotta cut deep. It's gotta cut deep that it's essentially the ass pounding thing that you received from the New York Yankees. That was kind of like the Cherry on top like like look even him around this amazing you you guys had being one hundred percent. Honest didn't make Iras are saying that Dombrowski was gone long before a the series. Let's call it twitter. Fodder for Internet purposes probably a little better if this happens while while not getting pounded by the New York Yankees. Maybe a little easier to swallow not so much firepower for a little fella running around that office these days that seems to be pretty excited about how the pin stripers are doing like that didn't bother you at all at all no I. I didn't care that it was yeah like once you once you've let go and once you've accepted that the season's over like it doesn't really matter if I were Yankee Fan so when was the council then when was just because we haven't you haven't a you're. You're off the train in April. Yeah I mean like if if if I got the sense that it wasn't gonNA be the Red Sox year it was last August when the schedule came out and I saw an eleven game west coast road trip to start the season well. That's not GonNa go very great at no point during this year. Did I really think the Red Sox were like were special team. I wasn't like this that that was the moment now is the moment where I felt like they could actually go back to back. I never ever had that feeling and it started with the eleven in Game West Coast Road trip. They go three eight. They start off what four hundred sixteen rather fuck it is. They've had the the eight straight losses. They get blown out in London. they've had the Chris sale season ending injury it. There have been so many moments over the course of this year where it's like. Hey just in case. You WanNa reminder that this team is in in Spanish. Oh this year. Here's another one here's another one here's another one there was never a point where they turned a corner other than when they got above five hundred everyone's like whoop. OPTI fucking do your above five hundred point because like you had an option you had a moment though and that was the inactivity of Dombrowski. How's that I think probably led to this. I don't think there's any denying that if there is help acquired and the bullpen is a little different than they are and that blown save number doesn't look the way it does and you're a little closer than you are at this point in time right now to the Oakland A.'s. He still has a job because he would have had addressed some of the voids that there was clamoring around and he would still he'll be representative of an individual who could go and make the big splash if necessary in seemingly would have made the moves to appease the voids that we're ever present so I feel like you've Dombrowski was able to pull the trigger at some point in time this year that could very well saved him. Save Dombrowski makes a move for a reliever right and the Red Sox are call it two and a half games back of the as does Dave Dombrowski still have a job yes but circling back to my main point does Dave Dombrowski have job if the Red Sox win the wild card losing four games to the Yankees he's like does he have a job like two weeks after that no and I don't think like anything less than a world series. I don't think the Red Sox were bringing. Dave Dombrowski Rosca back next year. It's not about what he did or did not do in two thousand nineteen. It's who is the guy that's that's going to construct. The next great red SOx team is that Dave Dombrowski is if the answer that question universally in that room with the owners and everyone else is no then now's the time to I mean you accelerate. The process doesn't inactivity doesn't his inactivity probably lead lead to that group assessing his inactivity of the owners. I think he was absolutely handcuffed with how much money he could assume during the trade deadline there's there's only so many pieces that you can acquire. You're looking at a luxury tax operates one way he's reading one way though where he's acquire and that's it so to your point about is this a guy who can help the reconstruction or should it be should be in place for the reconstruction if he is a GM who who can really only operate or seems to do well operating with a insurmountable amount of funds or he can go and spend that big money look a lot of people can write a paycheck it takes somebody different or a different type of approach from Group think-tank standpoint to be able to assess players who might not be on everybody's radar and figure out how to put together a couple platoons that might be successful as opposed to going all all right. Here's the list of the top five players in baseball who will be free agents. Let's see which one of them will accept my check. There's there's there's a big difference. What's at play here and the and because I have bore witness to a office or a group do about as much as you could do with about as little as as you could possibly have over a long standing period of time now we can get into whether or not that's been successful over the long haul or not. That's a different story but for Dombrowski ski if he's a guy who can only write that paycheck and deal with big fish then you're right. Maybe he's not somebody that they would be comfortable with spearheading spearheading a rebuild but if Dombrowski makes moves at a certain point that could give the impression that he's willing willing to be handcuffed yet. Find a way to make it happen then maybe Dombrowski hangs around. Maybe it's a matter of Dombrowski not really being interested in hanging around because he doesn't want to deal with the rebuild and he likes having the flexibility of a paycheck and he why he wanted to be there. He's like multiple times. I hey extension. You got one for me. You got an extension like on the front office right. Yeah Yeah I. I think that he didn't like that. Detroit narrative where it's like okay like I built this team in in thirteen and fourteen that was his juggernaut and now it's just a barren barren wasteland over there and here. I am celebrating a championship with the red sox while the Tigers are gonNA lose one hundred and forty games. I don't think he likes the fact where it's like yeah. I'll stick around for the good times in the second. Economic becomes trying. I'm Outta here. I think he wanted to I think he I think he was welcoming of the challenge of like okay. Let's build the next grade Red Sox team. I'll do that and then the red sox are like Maybe maybe not all say this as as we wrap up on on Dombrowski I'll say this. It's unfortunate if that is the case because I always would like to feel like look if I'm getting ready to make a head role and that individual comes to me and we're talking about how dedicated he is or she is to whatever is about to happen. The changes were about to undergo then. Maybe I listened so of Dave was ever at a point where he went to them and said hey they look. I need this extension. As you have noted a couple times then they should have listened. They should have probably gone about for their guy but it just sounds like and maybe there is some some of the him haunt around. Is there any thought the Dombrowski inability to go and lock up somebody to help in the bullpen and then him hall all with evolve the always gonNA start he'll be. We'll be reliever. He'll be like that all kind of seems like an inability of the GM to really give the team some concrete positioning you know what does that make sense like about the bigger issue is that he spent sixty million dollars or whatever to resign. Nathan Volley this offseason and let me let me ask you this because we have. We're we're wrapping up here on this but jared scale of one to ten. Here's the real crux of the issue right scale of one to ten. How concerned are you ten. Being the most concerned are you about the situation that the red sox are in and moving forward from a combination of roster farm system and a contract flexibility probably like a seven seven because now you've I mean Pablo Sandoval comes off the books but roux's nee Castio uh-huh Dustin Pedroia. That's all money. that's luxury tax like that's still fucking you there and then you for all the money that's coming off just like you have rick forsillo coming off. Pablo Sandoval coming off but that's all just being replaced by the the projected raises of arbitration eligible players. You're looking that fifty to fifty five million dollars being allocated to arbitration raises and then if you want to pay mookie what he's GonNa get an arbitration but you also want to re sign. Jd if he opts out which is probably going to you now. You're like Alex Speer wrote about how there's a chance that the least likely scenario is is that you keep both you might mookie you might keep jd you might lose one but you're you could lose both but the least likely scenario is keeping both both that sucks. I mean you're you're you're looking at twenty nineteen team that drastically underperformed and then in twenty twenty so you're kind of looking at a roster that's not going to be as good as as the twenty nineteen roster and less. There are some major major shakeups in major shakeups Eric. That's kind of scary territory to be a for sure. I want to think about this. I don't even want to think about this if they bring in like a new general manager or a new president of baseball operations from the outside now it's like okay now we have Alex Cora's in year three He. He's wonder if I wonder if his foot would even touch Yawkey way or whatever they're calling it these days before he would have a new contract to sign from twenty eight other teams in baseball if they ever let Alex Corrigo. That's what I'm saying like I I I I don't I don't even think you'd get to step outside before they would just whisk him away in a black car to whatever whatever new team was going to give arrays on what he was getting with the sites anyway all right. It's it's it's if it ain't broke down fix. It is what some would say but but apparently apparently it was broken wasn't great is also broken the thought. Is that a big deal. I feel like it's a big deal. I feel like it's a big deal. You're taking hobby out of that lineup the way he's been going fractured them. They'll be down for a while foreseeable future tough blow for the blow for the cubs. It's not it's not a good spots of being and they also have the Craig Kimbrel injury which we didn't hit on but we should have you mix the the Kimbrell injury now. You've got the hobby injury three. It's it's not a good situation to be in if you're the cubs especially because the National League wild card is so crowded and I feel like every time that we sit down to podcast where we're looking at a different front runner different favorite a different team that were sort of going. Oh they have a chance like the brewers. I don't want to say that we wrote the brewers off but the brewers have a shit ton a teams in front of them. I don't know two weeks ago. They probably had like three or four teams in front of them. Now it's just the cubs now. It's the Chicago cubs holding that second wildcard spot. The brewers have gained a couple of games here and they are a two games back of the cubs with no teams in front of them. we talked obviously to the to Archie Bradley Alex Young Young. The D backs are also right there so this is this is heating. This is heating up and I think if you're the cubs Yeah Losing Hobby Vyas Sucks Losing Craig Kimbrel that sucks too but this was a team that was constructed to be able to absorb those blows. Maybe not in the postseason. Maybe not in the postseason but to get there. I think that they can still get there is does anybody disagree. I think they can yeah I. I think they can't obviously Arizona in Milwaukee can make things very interesting. Philly as well look. The cubs are superior team to all of those teams that you named I would guess I in my opinion I agree. I agree but you'll lose by as like he he's he. I don't WanNa say as part of the depth because he he clearly a playbook and shortstop second base doesn't matter who's filling in for hobby be bias. WHO's filling in for big drop off. That's a huge addison. Russell is a fucking out is just in just hang at center the other day as an out Kris Bryant also hurt now to he's gotTa banged up Neha. He's got a banged up knee. Yeah not great not great for the Chicago cubs like because say what you want about the other guys Kris Bryant Rizzo. I get it like I'll be by is the heartbeat of that club. That's how I look at it. I look like I don't want to say you can easily. You can't replace place. Bryant can't replace a Rizzo. I understand I just feel like what Hobby bias brings to that club what he brings to that clubhouse to that lineup is is just something that you cannot replace. I gotTa keep I gotTa keep better track of my takes did I did. I say the cubs. We're GONNA win the NFL central did I say that I mean I'm sure you picked the brewers at the start of the year. No no this was like last week. Oh I don I. I don't know I don't change. I don't change your guys ever waffling opinions opinions on certain things. Oh when you guys were talking cardinals. You're saying yeah yeah. I think you said Cops Yeah. I got hacked. Oh Damn Yeah actually wasn't me. I didn't say that dude. It's wall wall. We're on the look. I didn't really want to get to too far into this but while we're on the topic of kind of talking about how divisions and stuff for shape up is now the time Jay for you and I to address you remember how I told you. I thought that central was going to start to shape up or excuse me how I thought the Al wild-card was going to shape up had something to do with the central well as we said today and if we're doing a little Karabelas here if the season were to end today the Cleveland Indians would in fact have one of the best seats for postseason baseball on their couch. No doubt that would that would be assuming that the athletics granted some sort of exception to not play their final game because they played fewer games than the Indian so I mean if that's the sort of cheap that you would need to get into the playoffs star ending today yes then that's fine but they would have to play a plan game just a win percentage. Thing is what I I was look ugly if you but yet complete continue well no. That's that's it I jus- man jody. We literally join him. Literally one game of standings one total game of standings has changed since last Tuesday's podcast when we talked about this it's gone on from the Indians being a half a game ahead of the athletics to being a half a game behind the athletics and the athletics have played one fewer game than the Indians. I get all the so this is very much like you wanted credit for the pirates outstanding. I two and a half weeks pitching to start the year the April era champions. I will grant you that. The first week of your prediction has gone better than it has gone worse still got some ball games left to J. Pathetic. It's going to be a gap established. This is going to frame this right up there with ARRIETTA and the pirates rotation as it's not so far as Levy Coz not so fast my friend memorial predictions just saying I feel like I feel like I know how this thing shapes up there like I know how the story ends. Its unfortunate. What's it like being in the wild card race. It's not that exciting straight is. It's very exciting now. It is maybe when you're a scrappy little do nothing like the athletics who are just happy to be here but when you've got world world series aspirations like the Cleveland Indians this is really underwhelming should be better. It'd be better can't lose series to the White Sox Oxen Shit seatgeek tickets can be complicated and confusing but there is. There's a simpler way to buy with seek. Seek is the smartest easiest way to get tickets to every type of live events. Whether you're catching your favorite musician on tour shopping for the perfect gift or searching for a last minute deal to see your favorite team seeking helps you find the best seats at the best prices fully guaranteed nothing. Nothing beats being there in person for the biggest plays of the year and seek will get you closer to the action for a great value. I have the SEATGEEK APP on my phone and it's by far the easiest way that I have found to shop for tickets. I can be anywhere and with just a few taps. I can instantly find seats. I just you seek to buy tickets to smackdown. Is at the massive square garden tonight tonight on Monday night. Raw also was was in New York City last night. Not a big wrestling guy doesn't matter you can go to concerts. You can go to baseball games. I don't know why you go or anything but a baseball game in September by the way September baseball's the best. We actually have the livestream coming up tonight. Shot at the livestream seek is designed to make your ticket buying experience easier than ever seek saves you time and money by searching multiple ticket sites to compare prices and find amazing deals and to get you the most. Bang for your Buck Zeki grades every ticket based on value to help you immediately identify the best seats that fit your budget plus. Every purchase is fully guaranteed so you can shopper tickets on seek with confidence make seek your GO-TO APP for finding the best deals on every type of ticket from sports and concerts to comedy and theater the best of all the grounds crew. The listeners of starting nine get ten dollars off their first seekie purchase. All you gotta do is download download the SEATGEEK APP enter the Promo Code starting that is Promo Code starting to get ten dollars off your first first seatgeek purchase Dallas. Take us into this interview police without further ado we we are going to dive right in to the middle of the baseball's. Dr Meredith Wills astrophysicist Physicist Baseball extraordinaire right now all right right meredith wills nice to meet you Ma'am Doctor Dr Man Talk to me about the they're flying out of the ballpark at a ridiculous rate. I I've for lack of a better freezing. I've been fondling balls in quite some time. I'm an expert well. I've gotten pretty good funneling the myself probably not as experts you fair enough what the hell is going a wing on first of all. Let's just go through your credentials as you astutely correct me. Dr Wills Harvard Bozeman Astrophysicist Born on Opening Day wore on opening day in the Baseball Hall of fame in the Baseball Hall of fame for knitting by the way which turns out to be useful for this swear to God. We'll get to that but you're absolutely qualified for the questions. I have the questions pitchers across major. League in baseball have fans. Have I think we all know the answer. Maybe we do maybe we don't. That's where you come in because I am at no point the smartest individual any room. I walked into certainly the case here. Educate me meredith what the hell wouldn't a Sam. Hill is going first to Philly in on a secret. I'm the most qualified person to do. This may be the only qualified person to do so bad in ninth. Okay absolutely it's on me guys so so when I talk about baseball's when I feel a baseball. That's probably where it starts for me. I can feel a difference I can just I can tell you've got a few different baseball's here for us. Yep Tillis what you got irate so for those of you who don't remember we're actually on homerun search to right now well because we had homerun search one back in two thousand seventeen which started rocketing yeah because of course you have to run surges in three years. That's way to go so anyway so we're in right now. What I call home runs search to and if you remember back in two thousand seventeen we another hormone search. That's home runs. There's is one so I got three baseball's here. Make sure I got him right dammit. This one is before home. Search want recall this ball or we're going to test alison this. This one is harmed search one. This one is home research to now. I'm GONNA mouth to you guys which one I'm handing him at which time but he's going to keep his eyes closed host and he's not going to know what I'm handing okay. You guys that do this one at a time. If you want one back Jack I need I need. I need it in my left-hand of course it. You can hand it back. I'm GONNA give you three two at a time and then ultimately you tell me which one by the way I don't know which ones I'm handing him this guy right here. I try very good it yeah absolutely the thing is way it just it's smaller caller tighter slicker. It feels like does that Yup. That's exactly right yeah. It feels tighter. Good word. Actually Schlink is the big deal with these walls your entire life. It's fun to fund the yeah the the big deal with ease. Which is why you're saying. They're tighter are is actually the same height. We're talking like half as high well. That's crazy blisters meredith. I was constantly dealing with blisters myself. I wasn't guy who through hard but I really did try to manipulate the lace. I really did try to manipulate the based on this not so much what we used to I have to do is try to bite the I used to bite the lasers and pull them up and you would bite them up just on a certain spot so I knew you had that anchor that you could continually go to yeah yeah that was more at the amateur level because in the big leagues I was GonNa say biting. The ball doesn't go over. Well and you get a new ball every pitch at the shelf. Life is is very small. Yeah Yeah Yeah so so these are samples what we're GONNA do. Is that my baseball as you boost. More Dallas wanted to know how we find this stuff out this us so we have here a lovely think of this baseball cooking. Science Boorda Baseball something like that hurts so what we're going to start with this. I'm going to Dallas do this. I'm GonNa tell them how and we're going to see him completely. Fuck it up. It's going to be a lot of this there. Will there will be there may be blood. I will use the box cutter the box because I don't trust you with a box of all right. I know I know I know how to find on the walls of the box cutter. You've probably never want your boss. Martin Luther box cutter never thinks Oh okay so oh yeah so anyway. One of the things that we do is to look for the randomness of the baseball this I he'll end up taking these calpers. These are in fact not dangerous even though they look at and he'll he'll take measurements here and here and here and I just want to see if you can do it without like those. It was fine actually like I've gotten so used to doing. This stuff by the way is that on no power buttons are always good. We're all on-off yeah. That's it. He's training of all good it Neilan this already and actually make sure okay. So what does the number say. Seventy thirty three point six sounds about right so now we're going to turn it so it's ninety degrees the best you can coming in. It's GonNa come as a different number by the way probably not necessarily three seven hundred point three okay seventy three point six seventy three point three and now we're going to go this way and again. Try to make it as as even as you can up like basically you want north and South Yeah D- Arrest uh-huh good right there. That's better seventy two point three see how much in various right there's a tuna. Luna variants here. It's a ton of those are small numbers right and I really don't know Y- you of all of them but I know that they're all different so and then we're not actually doing the calculation unfortunately but what you're then going to see is if you put them the risks and be like here and then here so it's kind of close to the scenes and that's actually where you on a ball before this year you would have found that that was actually bigger in this case. Where do you see in seventy. Two viewpoint nine smaller should be bulging at the seams but they're not try the other one so bulging aging bulls is what we're looking for. Bulging seems yeah. Bulging seems is normal until this year this year. It's different point eight there yeah so we got a couple of seventy three's in there. Those are both like under seventy three so basically what you have are. The seams are literally nestled into the ball. Is I inventing into bed. Yeah so that's why they feel lower is because they're literally like sunken. Throw that ball. You probably wouldn't so this one. Honestly this is more just like for the heck of it. It doesn't tell us quite as much but I just wanted to do it. which is I also get the width of the seams James? Because of course we're tools good more digital's good throws Dallas so literally if you can see that it's Kinda like that so wrote a couple like basically just inside holes and I usually do them. Kinda like hearing here in just a few different places that are far apart and I can see the numbers on this side so like literally you can stick those points into the air we go so that's an eight point two millimeters and they're going to be different very slightly going too so that's not even you don't have to tighten it too badly in fact don't bother the titan it into that one eight point nine six so you can tell us. Why are there so pretty tip. I feel like this is going to be narrower here. Probably Yeah you can sort I mean and you can tell by looking that well ongoing and what I'm doing okay is that seven point eight nine is right so the the reason I did that is because I think about going to certain places on the baseball that I would use to try to make it move in a certain direction so that's that's crazy. Wow so is that we're to you that I can feel and I can just kind of tell. The difference in the ball is going to be having having not gone to Harvard having not been anywhere near as smart as you just the fact that I can touch in confirm what the math and science tells you in fact even better. Is I feel like I've gotten as good as you almost as some of this show where the I've got to the point by the time I was going through my very last batch of balls where I could pick pick one up and tell you within like a millimeter around if it was bigger or smaller average is is really like my hand hand knew it was the coolest thing that's why I felt like when you're handing me these bulls. I think a little smaller yes this one yeah yeah. This one feels bigger right. Just wouldn't I feel like my example happens to be smaller. I'm sorry just worked out that way so talk to me now about the surface of the baseball the tech of the baseball baseball tenths in various there all right so one of the things is Dallas is talking about is the leather smoother and it turns out. It's way harder to measure How smooth leather is if you are like if the ball is like this you need lasers lasers at home. I'm doing all this stuff at home but if you take baseball part disassembled baseball those are licensed by the way that lovely so see covers oversaw this is cover off this by the way is we'll get to what's inside that turns out what's more important for the ball. Flying is actually the outside because after we get to this point doesn't as a matter quite so much so because this thing is flat or not flat but not round. It's not gonNa roll off the table. What we do is you literally saves me fully and half just a couple of magnets holding it together and do you want to do the measurement so what you do. Is he basically figure out how far up you have to tip the board you undo from that win win. This starts to move xactly yeah. The angle that it starts to move at all wants right there right. You're you're actually be an awfully delicate. That's better she'll do a quicker. Do you'll do a little quicker yeah. That's it little Hump Bridged Hump Right there and this is yeah there is right right there Jesus but anyway yeah so as soon as you get up to that angle it slides down another turns limiter interflow. I know actually that was coefficient of static friction. Lamour flow is flow says you can still sounds cool though I mean there there but but mostly what it has to do with Goodwin describe static friction is now not even added he ever been anywhere where you've had to walk on ice or you wanted these. California boys who's like never left San Francisco. Let's go walk on ice. No you don't you don't have to do that meredith the sand you'd have to you'd have to walk on ice well. Let's pretend okay so if you're out there like in your dress shoes boots. You really want to walk on the ice in your dress shoes because you're gonNA come slide now from under you. That's no fun. It's not fun votes. The reason that you're you're dress shoe slide out from under us because that static friction is a lot lower not existed non-existent okay so the higher the static friction the less you slide so hence if we like the board up like this tons of friction were down like this not so much so translation translation smoother baseball ball's probably GONNA fly a little better believe it or not. It's actually a little more complicated than that Matt but for me and my education level and the folks listening what it does it actually affects you even more than the vall which is if it's a smoothie the raw harder to grip not only. Is it harder to grip but for me. It's harder to manipulate it SORTA. That's actually the bigger. That's that turns out to be the bigger or issue for the leather. Smoothness is there's just pitchers don't like this ball and the reason they don't like this ball is because the leather so smooth. We'll be learning how to spin spin the ball better than we ever have. The hitters are learning how to hit the ball and attack the ball at an angle that we had never seen before that we just haven't been. I used to being attacked as pictures before so we're trying to figure out ways to work around the attack plan. That's occurring at home plate with the baseball. The very tool that we do that with is being changed in altered or so. We believe so why it's different so we can feel and that makes it took. I want to get to the inside. I want to get to the guts the guts and bolts if you will of this baseball hurt okay all right now remember how. I said. He's not allowed to play with sharp objects. No sharp objects okay. No no no razors. You're getting into a pen okay. Try Not got to believe too much. Okay cool so I make sure I can open this. Oh It's not my box cutter. You know we're in a stadium. They don't let me bring in my assist always carry knives. If you're an astrophysicist idea you think I'm kidding especially if you're taking your astrophysics Montana so what I'm GonNa do who is. I'm going to do this tiny little cut. You're on a focus on that school incision small incision yeah. This is kind of like surgery right there so okay. Where are we have. Are these teeny little leases that have been pulled up. I'm getting demo this for you and I wanna see how well you do because you think thank you got blisters. I got so many damn listers tear these things apart. I have calluses that will never go away all right so so that's how that's that's how you d thread baseball undressing baseball yeah this is. This is basically thinking about this baseball. All Strip tease sure does that work absolutely of course we are slowly undoing the laces so yes we're undoing the baseball so this takes a long time but on the inside of every single baseball cover is a code like that that there's either six letters or seven sort of it's it's basically a lot. It's essentially a lot number designation and what's awesome about this and rowing. This'll be great because I know you've got all of this listed by knowing coming this six digits or six letters. You can tell like almost to the hour when the baseball was made. I would love to know that it's kind hard because they need to have like the right guy at rolling. I added we'll Yeah Dallas. You can get Dutch Rawlings for me so I'm good all right so this to all seems job stick. This could very well be the all stored the super sleuth of the home run search 2017 online search this chopsticks solve the two thousand seventeen home runs search your your shop six got nothing on the home run search chopsticks in fact. I have offered to donate this. EXAC- chopstick to the baseball fame not kidding well. They said they get back to me. They did sound interesting sure yeah. I mean it's a very oh yeah that's right. I should get unauthenticated because this is chopstick so what you do. The thing with a twenty seventeen homerun surge is turns out that the laces were thicker and the lace. This is being thicker held the ball together better and basically you know how you're measuring round this before. The thicker license kept the ball rounder around a role travels further so you've got home runs and twenty seventeen that you didn't get and say twenty fourteen and that was really the difference. The lace has got thicker turns up by the way they're center again which is kind of called call because numbers went up to well. Yeah that's total. That's its own thing we want. We'll get into that in a sec but they're thinking of you when they did that because the reason all these pictures chairs we're getting blisters. Twenty seventeen was because the license are thicker. It's like throw it was like throwing with ropes. I didn't have to deal with that but I remember when the laces races were being changed in manipulated even when I was playing and that was something that we dealt with we have seen an astronomical increase in finger injuries hand like blistered a guy that comes to mind era Sanchez. You've seen this awful awful and there's other guys too and no no. I'm not going to put them on blast and there's other index fingers. I mean just it's. It's crazy yeah. If you want to say something really gross find was with Harold Reynolds or something commit Aaron Sanchez did this interview and they are you can only really watch at once because it's so disgusting but if you want to see how bad it can get anyway so what it turns out to find out how thick the laces are. Kinda wearing away but can you see that there's marks on that is showing up by the way you remember how I talked about the knitting in being important you do this with knitting or weaving all the time to figure out what size needles am. I GonNa use to net something and so you basically figure out how thick your yarn is in that case here your thread and so what I'm doing is by wrapping these you want to keep doing it. Wrapping it around make it was like as tight down as you can because otherwise basically don't want to slide around but you end up figuring out okay. I'm GonNa get this many any wraps per centimeter in this case and there's there's a trick to slide over. It looks good. He's doing good and that ends up telling you how thick the lasers are and it turns is out that the two thousand seventeen laces were thicker and this season. They're back to being thinner so Kudos because that means pitchers are getting blisters. They're not getting blisters from Isis aces anymore. You see good job so in essence what we have experienced. We've experienced more. More home runs hit than we ever have before. We have a combination of things and that's something that I also wanted to ask you is because the baseball's are changing yes but how much credit can be given just to the baseball because of the things that I mentioned before we are embittering stronger than we've ever been before athletes as human beings yes we or upon a new frontier in terms of how a to attack the baseball at home plate that is because we're being compensated for hitting the ball out of the park. We're disregarding strikeouts so the reward system the risk reward system has also in my opinion impacted the home run rate as well so I I think the belt the fly ball increase from what is it twenty seventeen to twenty nine hundred has been less than the fly ball increase rate than you think I mean Jason. Star had a great thing out out just okay. What are your numbers. Oh you're talking from two thousand fifteen when he was looking at was basically twenty seventeen eighteen and nineteen. They were basically all thirty six percent roughly so yeah tr- okay twenty fifteen the ball changes do enough homework meredith the ball change. I saw the ball changed. The middle of two thousand fifteen twenty fifteen numbers the first half is going to be different than the second half so twenty baseball right so comparing twenty fifteen to twenty one thousand nine hundred is bad science. I don't know I mean somebody call. The Fan selected science. It's bad science. I like some science. Whatever so anyway so there's gotta be something to that their credit to be given to the player. Well actually the thing that's funny. Is that the the fly ball rate necessarily exit velocity and and exit velocities. They're up a little bit this season Rob Arthur Rob Arthur should get a shadow for most of this stuff. Honestly he spent a ton of Shit. looked at exit philosophies and they're up a tiny bit but not nearly enough to account for this and exit. Philosophy is basically what is going to tell you you you know how strong the guy is because if he's hitting the ball harder. It's GONNA come off the bath faster. It was not come off about faster then the reason it's flying further because it's just not slowing down as quickly when it goes there which also means. It's a big deal for instance. We talk about netting this year being a big deal. Some fall is fucking dangerous this year. I'm sorry like if you have the same if you have the same season tickets that you've had for ten years and you compare from from ten years ago to now seriously in harm's way than ever before yeah and and I. I don't think it's going to get better you better I do. I do have to say there are teams that have made a great effort conscious efforts to help secure their that great white sox play of like saying beautiful. That's that's exactly what you hitting. Back does a great point so let me ask you this then. We've got the structure of the baseball aw and we understand that it is changing. We understand that his ever changing is something that we just need to accept in terms of. You're going to hand me a box of twelve baseball's. No To baseball's are going to be a like. Is it time for us to just accept that and move the fuck on or or is there. Is there an opportunity to get better at production. Is there an opportunity to get were consistent in production or are we we just or we at the pinnacle of what we can do as a team of humans in machinery creating a ball well. I guess I would I would sort of take. There's almost two parts. The answer first of all actually count liked it. The baseball's are a little different than each other like I mean because he was a pitcher for instance. It's why throw back is because one in Wednesday the all the balls of the same you can't do that anymore. So I'm not a fan I I like that. There's a ton of variation but there's some variation and the other thing is that I'm not sure it's they're all made the same way basically and the reason for instance that this ball all the way it is particularly with the lower scenes and the fact that it's rounder seems to me that they've changed how they dry the baseball. That's what I wanted to Iraq. Because before or to my knowledge the balls were being cinched up while wet leather. The leather can't can't become round unless the weather's so there since when they're wet and then sort of just left to dry or kind of air dry if you I will yep now today. It's kind of like ordering a burger. They're gonNA make it an sticking under a hot lamp and then by the time actually get your Burger. It's like three sizes smaller than it was when I grill probably feels like a fuck and bowling ball that you're biting into hard valley. It's a hard ball and you want so. Is there any valves. Let's put it this way. Rawlings has not confirmed this but the only way that I can think of to explain lean how we get from this ball to this ball is basically that it's like. They're taking a blow dryer at the Boston drying process. Yes there's there's drying. I process and that's key making the ball. Stay round and the thing is the reason is because those laces that we're stretching from drying now. It's the the equipment like throwing your t-shirt in the dryer so you you're not wet. Wet is your context. I didn't wear white shirts are through do another it just perfect so anyway the throw your wet t-shirt in the dryer and it ends up coming back in looking like normal everything shrinks back so if you take a baseball because these ladies are cotton. They're made the same stuff you're t-shirts made of and then you end up basically putting them under blow dryer. They're not gonNA a stretch. They're going to kind of shrink back so one. It's GonNa make sure that that these the the remember that that bulging that you're showing at the just isn't going to happen the same way way and then the other thing is that it's probably going to that's why the seams are lower is because it's forcing the seems to stay down your got nestled in the reason there is they can't literally can't expand out the way that they would have on the previous balls so rawlings changes one. I mean again so we'd I'd love listening one thing. If you lose him. Costly you could probably hear these screening. Oh yeah so yup fucking it's been what do you think has been the most impactful difference or the most impactful change that has occurred to the ball. Whether it's seem height same hi whether it's Westchester I would say same height and round nece but the thing is there caused the same thing because it's it's the blogger. That's it blow dryer affect the border. I am that's it. It's it's the blow Dryer Baseball name or do I get credit for that but yeah so oh so it's the same height and around the ball or both because the blow dryer now. This is one of the last things that I wanted to get to because the heart of the bulbs the baseball well. Here's here's here's what the inside looks like all right so anyway turns out. When you take a part of Baseba- aw you got covers you got laces you get three layers of yarn by the way you connect with this yard. Absolutely I'm doing stuff with Hall of fame knitting stuff with Baseball Lewis Sweater with baseball yarn well if you if you did enough for what we are auctioning awesome you can get but that's about it. I'm not GonNa make you in Dallas. Sorry I don't drive much out there. Sorry and then the very very center this is the core is also called the pill. This has come up a bit because people will talk about the pill not being a Senate or being more centered now Coefficient of restitution restitution. It's related to that but it's also if you have an off center pill. The bulb wobbles little as well. That's like gophers. They have devices then dead. They can put their golf ball into hit a button and it will spin the ball until it's rotating on its most functional asthma stabilizes and then you take the line. We have a pan so you can draw the line so that when you're lining up your put you know that you can put that ball down and hopefully if if you hit it squarely which never happens with me it rolls straight. That never happens for me either but the tools are in place to help. I mean you're doing the best again once again. That's okay. I don't play golf at all still in the me but yeah so there's been sorry so there's been some discussion of is this what's making the ball travel no further because of it is wobbling when it goes to the air. It's not gonNA be as efficient. The way that I think about is is throwing a football with the spiral as opposed to the way I don't ever ask me through football but obviously not aspire off not going to travel as well whether that has an effect or not is first of all something. I can't measure because I can't use chopsticks or T- pins or whatever but the other thing is it turns out that when you wind a baseball it's really really hard to make this off center systematically such that every single baseball would be either less senator. More centers. Just doesn't work that way you it gets back to that variation thing. I would assume that it's easier to keep it in a certain space as opposed to accurately off center right consistently and in fact if you were to off center that consistently that often you break the equipment that would be because the whole spinning thing was shaking the dryer perfect. Yeah that's exactly the way anybody's unbalanced. They're they're washing machine and suddenly you're afraid you're. GonNa break it. That's kind of we're talking about so this this is this has been incredible so we've gone over not only the structure of the baseball from seems to seem to the way the baseball is sewn together the way the baseball is dried. Remember wet meredith an I both believe we can't confirm the blow dryer affect but we believe saved there is a I am open to other hypotheses as a scientist. I am absolutely willing to take good science. That's a good sign. That's not selective science silence to practice yeah. You're you're right more times. When you practice selective science I just WanNa let you. Do you feel better about yourself either way. We're scoreboards always shining in my in my favorite. That's how I like the texture of the baseball but really the take home message has been from what I've gathered for you. The seats this seems are a large variable when we talk about the difference or the integrity thirty of the baseball moving forward what can be done or is there something to be done in regards to how consistent the ball can remain well. What I can say is that at this point. It looks to me like Rawlings ellings may have produced the perfect baseball and I'm not really sure how you go to them and say yeah. You know this is perfect. We really wanting to screw it up again. you know that plus the fact that honestly part of the reason they may be doing a blow dryer is don't forget the same ball is being used to AAA now. They gotTa make twice as many baseball's. It may just literally yeah. They're trying to speed things up by using the bugger stuff dries faster. I mean that could be it. That's a tremendous well. You know I didn't even I. I guess I've never really been talked about him because it was just one group thirty ball clubs that you're trying to trying to supply now you're taking. I don't know I mean Shit Shit. It's basically twice as many numbers workout us because you they reuse the balls more but there are more AAA club and what was I think if you go back to July the date was in July but at a certain point in July the home run total was already at one hundred fifty nine percent more a hundred fifty nine percent the greater than it was the entire year prior and it was just July Yup Yup that is that is I want to say on July twenty seventh seventh or something we actually surpassed the two thousand fourteen total entirely is this is this good for the game from somebody who has been in love with the game who was born into to the game has found her way now into what I feel is one of the most intriguing conversations that our sport really has surrounding. It and I know a lot of people kind. Check in and check out like Oh. It's the ball who really cares. I like home runs. Maybe the Layman Fan who is brought into baseball. It's because the ball is doing what it's doing. Are you okay with it is there. Is there a game that you favor. I think for more variety. I guess I mean right now. I actually had a okay Ryan spader. You're getting a chat now. You know him rocks. He's the best so I had him run some numbers just last night actually this was the that that giant. St John's over something. Sane said we can't hear Very Korea at the Oakland Coliseum this fucking graveyard we just sit a record tin Jackson and it's it's it's an I have never seen. I've watched the baseball at the Coliseum and I know a lot of older people who've watched a hell of a lot more than I have and they could not put words to what they witnessed. Sure there are some things that factored in the weather was hot as walls doesn't matter honestly depend everywhere. It's up every support is those numbers are what they are to the point where you have to pay attention to those. That's not something that just disregard yeah. It'll trough mother nature. No Oh God no in fact the look the way to get back to Ryan. I asked him I said Hey. How many games have we had this season with? No home runs when he ran these numbers. I checked there had been eighteen hundred hundred eleven games of those eighteen hundred and eleven games hundred and twenty three had had no home runs. That's like seven percents listened to seven percent of game said no home runs. Can you imagine any year where they're almost Garrett. I mean not almost guaranteed how l. you know. How can you not have rendering games like it's almost like oh into a game and there wasn't a whole lot. I signed up for the PITCHER's duel. I'm here for the pitchers to pitcher still not having any more those are those are that's why I like the pictures the starting pitcher who can go by the pitchers tool. Those are Unicorn type. I performances that's when I called him. I called UNICORNS and he's a guy like so when you get a pitchers do like that I am. I'm excited I. I love watching that brand of baseball. Is there anything else that we should know about the ball anything that we should be looking for in the future as we watched the game continue you to evolve. What are things that you look for to to kind of tip you off. Peak your interest. When you see something. pitchers can tell instantly that the ball is different these new opening day. I mean there's no question so it's and in fact a lot of the people who do the science. That's like the one thing they forget. It talked to the players particularly particularly word but how long did it take. You haven't thrown a ball competitively in ten years exactly so I mean talk to the pitchers figure out okay. That's it's different. You also look at things like home. Run rates are absolutely people out there who are doing good work figuring out okay. Are we seeing changes. Now that we kind of know to look for drag MAG like how far the ball is travelling. You also look at exit philosophy and stuff but that tells you different things potentially about the ball what I can say is i. I think now that we know how to ask the questions. I don't think we can necessarily assume that the ball is going to be the same from season to season 'cause wrongs things. I mean they're on the record. They do process improvements all the time. They're always trying to make the ball better so so is h is there. Is there any is there any stock in labeling era like a juice ball era or is that something I don't want to see. Here's the thing I don't like juice because that's sort of implies. They did this on purpose and I'm not really sure that they knew ahead of time. Take half percent increase in the home run rate changes. You don't think they had any knowledge. They knew. The dry was down. I just don't think they knew it was going to be this Bashar. Okay so there's a difference there. Though is they're not like. They knew there was gonNA be a change. They just didn't know how agreed use it was going to be exactly. That's like saying I'm sorry ory. You're sorry because you got caught. You're not sorry sorry because you got caught. It's a good way to so. That's how I'm looking at. It is is you knew the change was coming. You're you're kind of looking around at each other going. I don't think anybody other on hidden twelve thousand homers this year. Let's just kind of keep. Keep looking this way attention to the outfield wall spas going red now cast breaking never mind that the bulls just so so yeah but but anyway. I mean homerun era juice ball whatever we choose to call it. I'm not sure it's GONNA go back. at least we'll know when it does and we'll know not just because of the numbers will no because now we know how to take part of all the other different. You can ask the right questions Ask questions and I'll take a chopstick. That's all it takes this little guy right here the MVP of the entire crowd. This is my capstone. Well this has been this has been very educational very informative this sorry. I didn't mean to educate you you did you did this has been doing. This has been fondling balls. Earth Earth was Harry. Thank you for your time. Well that was exciting. That jared was an education to the finest degree. These fucking baseball's are flying out of the park at a ridiculous rate so much so that we will see we will see four teens break the home homerun record that took. I don't know twenty thirty years to set for the Yankees last year. You said that team homer record last year twins already thirty of broken it. The Yankees have already eclipsed that mark is well two more teams behind him going to happen. Meredith wills. Thank you for breaking and it down. You know something's up crops. You know something's up. This is how easy it is to identify. She handed me as we'll see in the video. She handed me three separate baseball's baseball's. It took me point two seconds of having this year's baseball in my hand to realize how different it was than and the other two baseball's it's real it's fucking real ones that video dropping. I believe that video will drop Thursday day on the Youtube Channel and there might be some clip down excerpts for the blog next week on Monday Sunday so keep a lookout on the youtube channel starting nine YouTube Channel Four the Meredith Wills astrophysicist baseball breaking down outage also blog that when it comes out so you can check Barstool sports dot com for it or the starting nine nine YouTube channel to check that out. USCB Guy Jer you know how I roll. You know my body hurts. You know the arm throbs. There's other things that throb. CBD Not Necessary but for these for these aches and pains CBD is absolutely the Way to go you know I'm a huge CBD Guiger. You know I'm a huge. 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You you can hear it from me. Somebody who spent my life using my body to try to make ends meet well. I pop on the CD cream. Jerry and I'm fucking good to go. CBD DISTILLERY DOT COM GIN CBD DISTILLERY DOT COM inter-code starting starting nine for twenty percent off at CB distillery dot com bottom line if you haven't tried CD for whatever reasons for whatever health concerns concerns you might have you need to put all of those worries aside and trust me folks. Trust me to yourself this favor. Do your body need this favor. DISTILLERY DOT COM enter code starting nine twenty percent off some pain relieving magic. Get it in your life. ooh. We're going to do it big time rundown right here and I would like Justin in havens the J. Kid. Why don't you take us down. This does Nice Little Lane of baseball here all right so the number of relevant teams. It has dwindled considerably. We've got something like six or seven in each league at this point. We're going to run down each team of that list and we're just GonNa say what's interesting. What's on her mind. We're just GonNa let the conversation flow but it's going to be rapid. It's going to be quick. It's going to be kind of like this old. TV show called the starting nine. Oh Oh archival on their Yup. First Year came with video B roll second year just their pretty faces but we're going to run through exactly how we used to do it. We're going to start with the Astros in the AL guys. What's Pecan your interest I think it's pretty simple astros best rotation tation baseball toughest team to strike out in baseball. They've got the best team batting average highest team on base percentage and opiates their fourth and baseball in home runs. Their third in runs scored across baseball the bullpen if there was going to be a Jn if you will. I guess it might be the bullpen pin. The are featuring the best strand rate in all of baseball eight point two left on base percentage and their whip is third best across baseball. That's what would I think about when I think about the Astros. Where is the fucking weakness. Fuck them. I know dallasite talk to you but yeah I did. I did we we were talking about prerecording that your Oregon Alvarez why I had to blog it I couldn't I couldn't have fired up the blog template fast fast enough and the the headline was something like your Don Alvarez just hit the longest home runs I've ever seen in my life. You're not it like hyperbole. It would take them tearing down minute maid and moving right field in fifty yards for a ball all to ever fucking get hit up there yeah. That's like there's no way you buy a ticket. There's no way you sit down in that seat of their like. Maybe maybe a homer no no homer tonight. Yes maybe you'll pass out from altitude sickness. Maybe you'll be able to spit on the back of a Siegel flying down below you. Those are some things that might come into in your mind receiving a home run ball during game play not one of those things. I had to take earlier in the office today that Garrett Cole he will play the role of two point fourteen mad bum this postseason just absolutely I see shit on everybody type postseason three straight starts a fourteen plus strikeouts on the other guy to do that. Pedro artnews he's also here's a quirky little stat for you on Garrett Cole so his last start he had fifty. It was another fifteen strikeout one hit performance cool cool league-wide league-wide. He has each of the last two of those he did it. Last may also may of two thousand eighteen only Randy Randy Johnson and Nolan Ryan have ever been responsible for consecutive such starts league-wide Garrick calls now on that list also astros offense on pace to be the best offense by total wins above replacement since the two thousand one mariners Yankees. What's interesting you guys at the Yankees. they're coming back soon. Luis Severino hidden eighty eight ninety eight on the gun in his Rehab starts. I'm I'm very very intrigued to see what he could bring to the table like. Is this going to be a guy like if you're if you're the Yankees right and it's like all right. We need to build his innings up. We need to build his pitch count up. I think Paxton is a very clear number. One Starter postseason series where does Luis Severino now fit in here. How about how about how about our boy? Buni drop in one of the cockiest lines I have ever heard and I don't even know if he realizes how cocky this sounds and I'm paraphrasing paraphrasing here because I'm not going to take the time to go back to the article but he is alluding to how they're going to use Severino why Severino's going to get one more start in AAA before joining the club in New York and Aaron Boone says something to the effect of well. You know we want to get Severino. One more START AAA in a more controlled environment. 'cause you know those fluky innings that can happen where teams score a lot. OUGHTA runs. You know there's a lot of stuff that can happen I don't believe there's any other way to interpret that other than Aaron. Boone is thinking to himself we you could call. Severino up here and then what my luck's GonNa be. He's GonNa Pitch. One inning and come in here and we're GONNA. We're GONNA do Yankee. Things and we're going to score forty. Fucking fucking runs and Severino is going to have to sit through a forty minute half inning and didn't come back out there and he's like I so we'd rather him. Go down to triple a you know did it and I was just like Geez. That's how that's that's what that has been like to watch. Jaiqi baseball over where he's like. You know what we should probably keep our guy. Who's going to impact us greatly in the postseason inskeep down in triple eight because I just can't run the risk of my off limits getting Kurt again crazy the Minnesota twins. I gotTA got a nugget for this. One Nelson Cruz one point zero one. Oh P S that'd be the highest of his career. This is a six thirty home run season after after his in his age thirty three and beyond the only player with more such seasons as Barry Bonds Aunts and this is the ninth best if you look because obviously offense is up this year so if we look by adjusted for age thirty eight or older this is the ninth best season by Justo. PS. All time for somebody that old or beyond two seasons by Barry Bonds Two seasons by Ted Williams won by Babe one by tees and one by ty Cobb and somebody named Bob Johnson Bob Forgot about Bob Johnson not the shortstop opt for the research and destroy softball team that was all time champion not that Bob Johnson but some other Bob Johnson from nineteen forty four. That's where Nelson Cruz loses at right now crazy you put yourself in the same sentence as Bobby Jay and you're you're doing some pretty good shit guys quality eh quality. BJ territory there anything else on the twins before we moved to the race. Who's going to step up now that fucking Michael Pineda has been suspended for P. D.'s because he had been one of their best starters? He's throwing the shit out of the ball over the last. I don't know call it a month or so. you know. Berrios doses not been very good in the second half of the season. Where's where's he added. He can actually come step up and and be the ace that we saw in the first half of the season. They're they're going to need that guy. If you're if you're going to try and take down you know I. I don't know who they would probably matchup against were they. They would match up against Houston. I mean depending on WHO's got. The most wins right. Yeah Houston or the end doesn't matter either one of those two teams. I mean you don't you. You don't WanNa come into that being like who's the ace. I don't know that's not a conversation that you want to be having going into a series against the Astros or the Yankees todd glass now returned for the House. It's good to ninety nine yeah like when he went. What was that May. Did you go down and May it sounds right. He threw threw fifty in it. Yeah it was like mid late. May through fifty innings issue yeah so when he went down I remember being being very very because he's got a he had a sub to prior to the injury. absolutely filthy. If that's a guy that can come back and be healthy for Tampa. Don't sleep on the race especially if Blake Stack is blake. SNELL has been thrown. Rehab starts right. Yes you get get those two guys right. Let's not sleep on those Tampa Bay rays. I duNNo. It's not sleep and you're not gonNA believe this but Dallas Braden's. This computer just died he texted us that he can no longer continue to do the podcast because computer died. He can't get it to come back on and that's. That's a shame because right here on the rundown. We have the information right in front of us the next team that we're going to talk about the Oakland it's a shame it really is never gets talking about them. You know what this is. Actually this is justice for Jay because you weren't here to pick your you're fifty homer team and we got to pick that for you and we responded on your behalf so this is this is your chance take the. I'M GONNA take the high ground and try and have a real Oakland A.'s conversation because I'm a classy man and so two things obviously Veasley stand out to me with them. SHAMANEE's return yes to starts now. This season twelve innings three hits allowed one run and five walks and fifteen strikeouts so to two things quickly a obviously. That's a dominance factor. There's a lot of only three hits in twelve innings but he's missing a lot more bats than Shawn Mendez tended to miss.. in previous seasons eleven point three strikeouts per nine his mark entering the season for his career. Her was seven point two and obviously that just the fact that there's now the potential that he could be a contributor for them not only down the stretch but in the postseason yes very excited for. SHAMANEE's return also in our special place place in our heart of course we got the witnesses no hitter. I do not see that. That's not threes in that. I was GONNA say I was Gonna say because gas twice. I feel like anytime that we've had someone on the podcast. It's like Oh yeah no. I we root for that guy because he's been on the podcast more so if you've been on multiple times out yeah that's podcast. This podcast appearance was Kinda predicated by a no hitter though then that's that's tied into the whole thing you said Matt Matt Olsen yes Manson. I feel like if the as can get into this wildcard game and they can advance make a little run in the postseason just even make it to an Elsia something like that fit like Matt. Olsen is going to be one of those guys where everyone's like. Why the fuck wasn't paying attention attention to this guy I mean he he. He's got the homerun stroke down Marcus Simeon. I feel like with Marcus. He's a guy that when you watch watch them every day he's not. He doesn't have the wild factor that guy like Matt. Chapman does but like wins above replacement will will argue with you and say now know Markelle Simians in above average which player but I think when as it pertains to the wild factor the guy where it's like Oh this player special and I can tell that's going to be mad chapman so we'll see what happens thing about that Olson. That's interesting to me is like I. I wonder if he's what I'll be interested to see is whether he's a guy where for Matt matchups are exploited. We saw that was cody. Bellinger a couple years ago remember where he struggled in the postseason in part because they throw a lot of hard part left. He's Adam Olsen splits are not doc out of lying and for a lot of lefties but he's got a thirty two four strikeout-to-walk ratio against lefthanded hitters or left handed pitchers that would be something and then Hayes was Ardo joining winning the team last night. I obviously it feels like I mean he was literally supposed to like break camp with the team so this feels like a really long time coming. You know we'll see what sort of electric arm he is. Dallas has been hyping him up for a long time and it's a damn shame. The Dallas is no longer on this podcast. Ask At least for the rest of this particular episode because I'd love to hear what he has to say about. Hey Zeus Azzaro but maybe we'll circle back to him. In a couple of years. Yeah see how the first three or four seasons of his career have gone We'll revisit for sure the Indians the one thing I have to say. They've been a very frustrating team to watch over the last couple of weeks the one thing I'll say about the Franscisco Indoor even though he missed basically the first month of the season is one home run away from his third erred would actually be a thirty twenty season but it would be his third thirty fifteen season and the only player if he does that in baseball history at the shortstop position with more such seasons seasons is a rotten figure that so consistently excellent Arabs the cut off for a lot of great shortstop seasons their he's working at the bar. I that home run that Linder hit in Minnesota that he hit into the fucking gift shop yield. I mean people oh forget than Dora. I mean yeah has homers but he can lean on one every now and then you can get a hold out yeah for me clovinger get them to October October. this guy's electric it was just crazy to think the the what was it twenty two straight wins was a twenty two twenty two straight wins. I mean clever was like they're roaming sixth star now back then and here he is with Ace Shit. I has come up has been really fun to watch from from an outside perspective. He'd be my pick if if it was a must win game for the Indians or a game one or a game seven Evans sorta thing I would pick club injured to when he was coming up through through the rankings was he. How would it as going to be like this this frontal I mean I I remember him coming up more than I remember like the arrival of Shane Bieber as being thing like Bieber's going through the same thing this year no doubt I mean their ability to get the absolute. Most of these guys that are supposed to top out is number three or number. Four starters has just been I mean it's been the signature player development story of this particular team over the last ten or fifteen years. It's just incredible. I remember Mike Levinger is kind of a hard throwing guy not this hard throwing That's that's the other thing he's added velocity. He's obviously refined all the other elements of his pitching. It's extremely impressive that these guys just keep filling in when one of the other guys falters because for as good as Carlos Carrasco was supposed to be he wasn't supposed to be as good as he ended up being. Corey Kluber was not supposed to be anywhere near as good as he was. He ended up being still could be the bowers really the lone exception is a super high draft pick but and he's really struggled since he went to Cincinnati Anyway. We'll see Indian still got work to do. They shouldn't have to but they do and therefore Kluber life. I have not seen an updated timeline for him recently. let's see what's the latest update is yeah. I don't see any real news about a anything outside of like Rehab work like he's doing rehab work in a pool right now. Jack's yeah so looks like the latest expectation is did he would be surprised if he's back before the end of the regular season and and I don't know how you work something like that in if he's not pitching by the end of the regular season if you're fortunate enough to make the postseason so are we. Are we doing the National League teams. Do you WanNa do on the on as much as I would like to. You know Clear Out Dallas and get some extra shine on this podcast. I appreciate that but I think we should wait until hill Thursday to do the NFL all right well. Here's the deal Dallas will wait for for Dallas to return on the Thursday podcast finish out the National League teams James Braves dodgers nationals cardinals cobs. Brewers D backs We'll hit those on the Thursday episode. Shit the mets are maybe the mets are phillies. We'll sneak in. Maybe they'll get re relevant yeah. There's always that chance because the phillies a prank playing the red sox this weekend so that those are free wins we're going to have J. I we're GONNA have Jay go first when we do the National League but long day at work tough day at school still stuck at the office treat yourself to the meal that you deserve and have your favorite restaurants. Come to you with door. Dash your sweatpants. Let Pants are on for the day but you're sick of microwaved leftovers and frozen pizza enter door DASH restaurant quality food with a living room dress. Code your the parents. Don't pack your lunches anymore but you still need to eat. Have your favorite restaurants brought to you with door. Dash Brown paper bag not included crushing it at work. Doc Laser focused on beating that boss level. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't eat door dash can help you get your next meal from your favorite restaurants. In just minutes Jordache connects you to your favorite restaurants in your city. Ordering is easy open the door dash APP. Choose what you want to eat and your food will be delivered to you wherever you are not only is your favorite pizza joint already on door dash over three hundred forty thousand restaurants in thirty three hundred cities see you might find a new favorite to with door to door delivering all fifty states and Canada order from your local. Go To's choose from your favorite. National restaurants like to halt halt lay. Wendy's chick fillet and the cheesecake factory. Don't worry about dinner. Let dinner come to you with door dash and right now. The grounds crew our listeners. You guys get five dollars off your first order of fifteen dollars or more. When you download the door DASH APP and enter the Promo Code food starting nine that is five dollars off your first order when you download the door dash APP from the APP store and enter the Promo code starting nine so don't forget Promo code starting nine five dollars off your first order from door. Dash will also be doing twitter questions on the next pot yup lots commutable twitter questions National League playoff teams. That's all coming up on the next pod Jay. Do you have any final PAT's nope. I'm just ready to do Dallas as noise that he does at the end of every pod. You're going to hit that one. Oh yeah I I have to absolutely have to file thoughts. Wow what am I gonNA final thoughts. It was great to see David Ortiz back throughout the first pitch for the game. question might have been a little bit of a look the other way because Dave Dombrowski got fired type deal but regardless still great to you see big PAPI back out there his first public appearance since being shot in the Dominican Republic back in June is a really cool moment. He took the time to thank you you know even some of the Yankee players that went to come and visit him at his home here in Boston but yeah that's really for me. I saw that it was referred to on TV. Today's a failed assassination attempt while they're showing video of big PAPI back self explanatory right if the if it was successful you wouldn't be seeing him anymore. A hundred percent yeah. There's no such things in assassination attempt right or it's just an assassination then for the hundred percent. It's just one of those meaningless thoughts. Tan The podcast jared until Thursday uh-huh.

baseball Dallas Dave Dombrowski Red Sox New York Yankees Jd Martinez jared jared Dave Dave Dombrowski Rasi Dombrowski Chicago cubs Meredith Wills Archie Bradley Rob Arthur Rob Arthur brewers Dave Dombrowski Hausky New York City Pablo Sandoval Dave Dombrowski Rosca Major League
My Neighbor the Health-Care Ninja

An Arm and a Leg

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

My Neighbor the Health-Care Ninja

"I'm in Meredith Bela's kitchen where she pulled up an old facebook messenger exchange on her phone. Okay awesome and I start reading it to myself. Hello Kelly hello. I'm working at in and out. That's okay it's from a couple of years ago. Kelly is a mom who had been posting about her daughter in a group for type one diabetics. The daughter was twelve and had just been diagnosed about twenty years ago. Mayor had been that kid. She went to a special camp for type one kids and it made a huge difference for her immediately. She had a plan and for this family. Get you under if we can like. I just knew I could. So she invited the mom into a private chat. I get married to do the reading from here on him if I could find you a contact for your daughter to go to camper free. Would you be entrusted. Can't make promises is a few connections. I can try to pull. Let me know a few days and a bunch of messages leader Meredith has found camps near Kelly's home with generous financial eight policies. She's connected Kelly with the right people and pushed her to turn in the paperwork. Kelly writes back. You're a wonderful person. I can't I couldn't have done. Don Infest without your help. You are an angel from above. Thank you for your support. I get tired of digging for help. Meredith writes back. It's nice to let someone someone else. Do the digging for a minute. And then there's what is this. And she sent his tears this to her. She's sent it to me cheers. It worked the girl I went to Camp Meredith and Kelly are still in touch and this is the kind of thing mayor does she helps people type one. Diabetics Co workers rondos on. Read it figure out how to navigate the cost of healthcare because any battle. They're up against she's been there. This is an arm and leg a show about the cost of healthcare. I'm Dan Weisman and I heard from mayor to about a year ago. Last year she caught our episode about Renaissance Fair workers and the safety net. They've created for each other in the last few years. They've paid more than half a million dollars in medical bills for each other but their secret weapon is a part time advocate who teaches people how to navigate the system. She has helped them make more than two million million dollars in bills. Go Away at the end of that episode. I said you know someone like this or if you are someone like this. He's got in touch the next day. I had an email from meredith with the subject. I am that person like your Robin below that it said I have gotten thousands thousands of dollars in bills reduced or removed or just plain made disappear for myself and help others. It's a combination of extreme couponing phone negotiations letter in writing and blessed all lots of paperwork and received keeping I was like. Oh yes please and it turns out. We're neighbors Meredith. Lives about a mile from me around Labor Day. This year I stopped by and that Meredith and her husband Chris and their three year old high. I got three Oh named after woody right on three good to meet the Hugh and we sat in her backyard for a couple of hours and she told me her story and then we met three more times. It's in my little back porch studio in her kitchen because it turns out the story of how you become a healthcare Ninja a Robin Hood. It's complicated and it's not all roosts even today being an it's a Lotta work a lot of time. A lot of feelings all of it it. The first time we meet one story stands out. It's the moment when mayor first emerges as a fully-fledged Ninja in the story meredith is in her mid twenties twenties and she's just moved to a new place. She's got no insurance and she isn't making a lot of money and she's a type one diabetic so she needs to be seen all the time time and she needs an endocrinologist paperwork so she can get discounted insulin so I just start making folks and I found a guy and I was like hey. Would you be interested in taking on a negotiation to have patience I will you know how how much you want patient. Asian your doctor. How much you want? That's exactly how this happened. And we came to terms on a price and he would see me unlimited the times. I just had to pay him for tenure in when you made the deal on the phone. Plus winning impersonating finished negotiation finished the negotiation negotiation. Like a business deal like she was in her mid twenties approaching this whole deal with kind of detachment that for me at age. Fifty one is difficult to to attain in dealing with the financial side of the medical system. And in doing this show. I've talked with lots of people who deal with it. Not a whole lot of them. Have this kind of detachment like who does. Is that Meredith Baylor does it. Here's how she got there. Her parents were in the business. Dad's a doctor Mom's nurse so the whole territory including the back end kind of familiar for instance or Dad's numbers listed in the phone book. Sometimes patients look number called the House and one thing she learned from seeing in her dad operated was this. I knew that people gave care because they cared my dad cared. He gave a a lot of free or supend ously discounted service so as a kid. He doesn't know how important this will be later. But she's already soaking up the lesson that most people do not get at home. Doctors are people who want to help then comes the tougher stuff on her twelfth birthday. She's diagnosed with type. Type one diabetes. She spends a week in hospital. And it's basically boot camp. It's like this is your regimen. This is your new life. Here's your weight training book. Talk Crazy this is GonNa be and this is twenty years ago these days. If you're diagnosed with type one diabetes. You'll probably get a continuous glucose monitor and an insulin pump and one of the newer long acting insulin. The super expensive kinds but twenty years ago. The stuff was really not around so much in the old way of doing things. You stuck yourself with a needle. Multiple Times a day and every day was a series of incredibly rigorous calculations he had to time. I am your food if the time. Your meal's calories taken in units of insulin injected minutes on the clock. She spends a week in hospital learning this and then she's got a live it every day. Her her mom helps mum's a nurse. But still this is a kind of second lesson being healthy. Just staying alive requires work requires vigilance every every day all day. Then there's another less. Your Life does not have to stay on any sort of standard path back that a year. 'cause I missed so much and I dropped out after seventh grade after seventh grade dude bold urging how. How's my mom was choose the trailer she's like? Oh we'll just some but this wasn't about diabetes. Not Mostly Meredith was managing managing the injection systems but she was dyslexic. Couldn't read out loud as seven cleaner and the school wasn't offering services to really help with this was rural Roll Ohio twenty years ago and her mom was sending a message. Will this is okay. Your Life isn't going to look like other peoples people's emeritus says her mom living out that message herself. She was not a popular person for pulling us out of school. That was in our small town l.. A. Big what's your doing. What Meredith got back on track academically? But she didn't head back to regular school instead I got my. GD Like the sued turned sixteen and going to college. was I just need it. I need a different schedule. I need to schedule it my diabetic schedule not the daily schedule of school. It's not just the schedule either. It's also all the fitting sitting in dealing with the Society of Adolescence. Having nothing to do you didn't have you literally didn't have time for that. I didn't didn't so they're less than fully learned. Your Life doesn't have to look like other peoples. Meanwhile her MOM has another lesson for dealing with bureaucracy every few months. There's a phone call that has to happen with the insurance company to certify that mayor this following or protocols injecting when she's supposed to be checking her levels tracking everything sheets when when merit it's about fourteen. Her mom tells her making that phone call. It's going to be your job. I'm not going to be interpreter on this. You gotta go in there and start you know you got to take the call you gotTa tell them Essel. Do the thing that you're telling me to do and many years later when meredith is facebook chatting with Kelly. That's the mom with newly diagnosed twelve year. Old Meredith is definitely a couple years. Have your daughter start talking with the Insurance Company for herself. Ambitious with mine. Rarely have problems because my mom slowly at fourteen fourteen started giving me more negotiation responsibilities of course teenage meredith didn't know she was building set of long-term Ninja skills. She was just scrambling. He's best she could and the scrambling kept getting more intense. Around the time she started college she found out she had a rare heart condition and she needed surgery. My parents didn't know if I was actually going to survive all these things on top of each other like really sick. She went to school in State Eight and she says she shortened her horizons. I mean the immediate horizon was a lot to deal with. I really didn't have the brain power to do things that I really probably could've ended up. Doing she majored in art partly because she loved it but also because it was about the only thing she we knew she could do. The dyslexia was gone. There were other learning differences. Reading was still really hard writing with a really hard. Doing math was impossible. Getting the art degree took everything she had. I would go to bed at hat thirty every night. S- and I really didn't have a social life really really tired. In other words. She knows art art. Degree is not exactly a ticket any particular career but it's a college degree and she wants a degree as soon as you can get one. I had to leave southeastern Ohio. Ah Seventy Mile. Cartwright to the doctor's office like to get to a specialist. She graduates with the art. Degree moves to Columbus Ohio. Oh and takes a job at a nursing home. It's not her dream job but there's health insurance. I had a bachelor's degree so when it was two thousand nine we need county had collapsed in and I needed insulin. Meredith talks about this period is being about short term thinking limited thinking among other kids got to choose a major choose a career balanced priorities. She only got to have one priority. Survival maybe this is an into accepting limits crummy limits limits not everybody has to accept and maybe short-term thinking survival thinking being a Ninja characteristic to or maybe it's just a raw deal not everything has a silver lining but after college before meredith settled into the Nursing Home Gig. She and her boyfriend the same guy. She's now married to they. Did this one thing that was really kind of rash or at least it was not all about immediate term survival. He made the same calculation. A lot of new college grads made right then. It seemed like like a good time for graduate school. Wait out the recession. Come out of it with a new credential and they really wanted to see the places. He was applying to check them out so the road. And so we did we little car for three months and we visited universities going all across the US eating Rama noodles and she had this other thing besides the Rama noodles the way. Some people sock away money when they're going to quit a job and a few months or keep go bag under under the bed in case of an earthquake she had been socking away. Insulin her doomsday kit so he grabbed her bag full of insulin and Rama Noodles. They drove across the country. Visiting graduate programs like okay. Well I can do anything on this adventure did but then there's an emergency easy a health emergency. We'll have more on that right after this. Hey there's this other podcast. Thank you might like. America dissected takes takes look at a bunch of crazy aspects of health and sickness in this country that this show does not look like. Oh the way vaccines have been losing ground or the fact that Flint Michigan is not the only city with a lead poisoning problem by a long shot or the OPIOID epidemic. And before you go screaming for the exits I mean this show. You're listening to is scary enough. Here's the cool part. And they are dissected not only looks at possible solutions it looks history including ways. We've actually these kinds of problems before. It's a ten part series from folks at crooked media and it's hosted by an actual Dr Abdul El-Sayed actually he's an MD a public health PhD and the former health director for the city of Detroit. Leaves me feeling a little inadequate but look he is funny and direct. I like him. The show looks at what really matters for our health. Like there's an episode about the low Munis epic and it looks at the ways. We're failing science way. Government is failing us and what we can do to get it all back on track. It's a ten part series and you can go binge your heart out right now. An apple podcast stitcher or every. Get Your podcasts This season of an arm and leg is a CO production of public. Look road productions and Kaiser. Health News a nonprofit newsroom. The covers healthcare in America. Kaiser Health News is not affiliated with the giant healthcare provider. Kaiser permanent a minute. We'll have a little more on Kaiser Health News at the end of this episode so new mayor to think Chris or on their big road trip and suddenly there's a health emergency but it's not hers in Yosemite Chris Falls and breaks his hand hand in three places and unlike Oh my God we don't have insurance you need surgery and then when I started calling doctors this is like my very first time like negotiating all I knew as I need to find a guy and I wasn't ain't GonNa have the surgery done in California because California and I didn't know if I can negotiate with someone there hieaux in her little town. She's got all kinds of connections. Remember over her dad's a doctor she works. His connections gets commitment from people. A surgeon a team. I drove across the country within you like broken in absolute pain so they get there but there's something she hasn't thought of he's in there and then I'm like okay but I don't know hundred paper and operating room. She doesn't have insurance any money. Any job any anything just to go back with some insulin and some Rama noodles and the hospitals like well actually here. Here's the financial aid application and I was like. Oh yes much they they gave me your first taste. Yeah maybe they created a monster. But I'd say they completed her Ninja training at this crucial bit of knowledge. You don't have to personally know somebody. There's a place to go and it's just a sweet little room just right by the front door which was so funny funny because that was the same possibly volunteer as a kid. It was just right across the hall. She and Chris had back to Columbus. He's not GonNa Start Art. School will hand can heal up. She takes the job at the nursing. Home gets insurance keeps honing her Ninja skills a few years later. When Chris does go to Grad school she follows him to Illinois even though his school is in a small town there is no guarantee of a job with insurance and she doesn't get one for a while l. but she's ready? She's got her Ninja Chops together. She works the phones. Find yourself that endocrinologist does her negotiating. Gets him him to see her for cheap and to sign the forms so she can get those coupons for cheap insulin and the job she does get attempt position as a clerk in the town hall. It gives her bonus digital's mad paperwork skills a better understanding of the person answering the phone when she calls this bureaucracy that one because now she has been that person get the city like eventually. I became one of those people. who was the form keeper? Like I'm the check box keeper. Have you done ABCD. So here's how she ends up putting it now the Ninjas perspective like there's only three things that that you're fighting problems competence problems with greed and problems with maliciousness and luckily most things are incompetence like. Yeah there's a process for asking but the probability of something going wrong on the other side of them losing the form even though you file it say it's huge and so so if you are calm and persistent organized you can take on one hundred percent of the burden of competence. Here's what that sounds like. We just as you know we just like a month ago on this date. Don't you have that there. Oh I do have that on my call log bring it back like Oh yes. Sure because you've been so nice ice in patient and you're not mad at the person who's just they are taking the boxes. You know the first time we talked. I got married this origin story but we didn't have time to get to this stuff about the way she learned to help people and her story was tougher. The night anticipated a little less uplifting. We talked again and it was actually kind of an emotional conversation. Since the first time we talked she had been doing some calculations about her current job. Rob How much for total compensation goes to health care and it's more than half when you count the money that her employer puts in toward a health insurance premium the part that she pays the deductible all the copays almost sixty percent of the money that her employer slates as money for Maritz position and goes toward health care. She was not happy about it. I told her I'd been thinking about our first conversation. Her Ninja training tough. It was not something anybody would sign up for. How much ongoing work? It was how I was starting to think about the story Here's currently pitching it. Okay is like my neighbor. The healthcare share money. You know has like good news and bad news for you and the good news is like it can be done. The bad news is it is a real fucking drag and not everybody has it in them. Yeah they don't know I definitely one does not have have union people. Who didn't would you tell me one of those grades? No I mean you know like once you're diabetic when you've grown up with enough diabetics they do start to die. Yeah so sorry it's okay. It's not just money type. One diabetes is a life threatening illness. It requires constant vigilance. Everybody's body responds differently. No matter how vigilant they are and people die. Young Meredith had brought over a book of cartoons about her experience with our health. You're great funny and Super Super Sad. This one actually was remade. And it's like reappeared across the Internet someone and then it was really sweet but it's mine. I'm the original reason reason to cry over Spilt Milk Broken Insulin. That is worth balling of You have to take shots. The bad diabetes. Yes they're all out of the later Meredith wrote to me and she was like eight. Yeah that was pretty heavy. She wrote about how being an artist had saved her. She said I think I downplayed downplayed the experience of being joyful through the marathon. And she said she'd pulled up some examples where she helped folks like that texturing with Kelly. The woman whose daughter Meredith hooked up with free camp. So we got together again at our kitchen table She showed me the texting with Kelly and she talked about hatch will help other people dig up the financial aid form on their hostels website. They don't even know where to go. And you're like well okay. What state what city do you live in? She gets the hospital's name and then you start. Opening up and going into their business section other eligibility section for financial aid popping and all those keywords. And then if it's there if you'll be able to pop that up for them and just handed to like you like someone you've just for fun I. It's hard for me to go out and do a lot of activities and so this was just one of the things that was when I was like sicker. That was just like you would like hang out on facebook groups and look for somebody who needed help and read it or people just ask. There's a whole wolf. Reddit page just dedicated to hospital bills and you would hang out on that page and be there to answer. Because there's my God they she's not getting around. Here's some excerpts. Look for the words financially charity. Care anything along the lines of words that can hide money. Ask Your doctor tell them look tied on funds right now would make a big difference in my life lower what I owed one hundred dollars. Whatever fair and then there's technical advice about fighting the big super high emergency room bill and it ends with good luck? Stay cool keep fighting. Another one includes be polite and start climbing the billing info. Oh ladder another one ends and just keep asking you are negotiating for your life. Be Polite always may be Kreil but keep asking on and on it's awesome and kind of exhausting to contemplate in in in our last conversation. Meredith said something interesting. She said essentially that she does this partly to overcome her own sense of exhaustion zoster of being overwhelmed herself by these issues. I really don't think I necessarily going to be able to solve them for myself. But if you consult for something else it's why did that for that person. I'm sure I can turn that skill over into it for myself. Even Ninjas don't stop worrying and then I've gotten to see the thrill of this stuff too because if something happened recently and play a role so last last summer I got this. Medical device called a C.. PAP machine it's for people who airway closes up in their sleep called sleep apnea pretty unhealthy and it was funny. Because I was doing the story at the time about how these devices heights is a spy on you for your insurance company might remember from last season it was pretty fun story is or spying on me and the machine was amazing for me I I mean sleep apnea makes you tired so I was surprised when a test that I had it. I took the test because snoring drove my wife crazy. I didn't think I felt tired. It turns out I just had not known what not tired. Felt like this was like discovering coffee for the first time but then this thing happened I went on a trip a few weeks later and brought the machine with me and I left it on public transit on the way to airport. I called lost and found for week. Nothing and I knew from having done this story that machines spies on you so your insurance company knows if you're using it and if you're not they won't pay for it in the first few months you have it. They don't buy it they just make little. It'll rental payments to the vendor and if you don't use it the vendor takes it back but I couldn't give it back because I didn't have it while I I was GONNA be Super Tired and I was not going back to that. My wife Devora posted to a neighborhood. facebook asked if anybody had a spare and guess who back Meredith. She had one from when she was pregnant. Used to belong to a dad and this was before I scheduled interviews with her. I wish I had record about lightning visit anyway. I got the medical device people on the phone. They're like your insurance might pay for a new one but we need to get paid for the one that's lost paid by me and then if the insurance I didn't pay for a new one I'd be on the hook for the second one and in both cases paying the price they get from insurance which is way higher than you'd pay someplace else. CBS and the whole thing was gonNA take weeks. We bought a gently used one from some website and I gave Meredith Her dad's back when I interviewed her for the first time. And thank you for a learning and then we waited for the bill to come last week. It came more than a thousand dollars. Ah I left it on the dining table and then something pretty awesome happened. I came out from the world headquarters here in my son Porch and my wife it was in the living room and she had just called equipment place and gotten us a huge break. We what did you just say you are so you just you just you just saved saved us. What like eight hundred dollars? Well just call them and I said you know we had to buy a new one and wondering if you could meet us in between your cost I end the billing us all nice way to put it. I know a thousand fifty nine probably isn't your cost so I basically just appealed to her sympathies. That was thinking she'd knock off like one hundred. Maybe two hundred bucks just because I was so nice and I wasn't even sure. She said she had to check with them. She actually called me back she checked and she called back and she said. Can you pay three hundred ten dollars. Oh my God I said yes. You're amazing I love you so much relieved. I've been dreading getting this bill. I know I've enjoyed getting this bill to you and then I saw it and I was like oh no I've been dreading how you would feel and what you might right. Say what you saw it. I what I saw was I've been listening to this show and I think I have an idea you're amazing always worth a try yes holy mackerel that that is the that's amazing that's amazing just like I'm just making money left. It's not Sweden. But you know some. Take a postcard from Sweden. Like a postcard from Sweden. Wow yeah thank you so romantic it is to go back and make the show. I love you so much for. A poster triumphed cramped facebook and Meredith wrote a comment at some Ninja level. Work right there by the way. When d'Ivoire mentioned a postcard from Sweden? It's kind kind of a family joke. We talked about it in the very first episode of this show. Where if you have the right kind of job with the right kind of health insurance it's like you live in a country with a really good national health plan like maybe sweet? I don't actually know Sweden. If you haven't heard that first episode you might want to check it out. Actually if you are new here you could go back and listen to all of them. I think they're all pretty good. And that first episode is a great place to start next time an arm and leg. If this podcast were musical it would be explanation of benefits which is actually a show in rehearsal right now in New York City. It's got a smart and funny history of Health Insurance set to music and this. That's next time on an arm and a leg then daycare if you saw in this episode was produced by me Dan West. Our editor is an Heiferman consulting managing producer. Daisy Rosario or music is by day whiner and sessions at emory. Monday audio wizard. This season of an arm and leg is a co production with Kaiser Health News. That is a nonprofit new service about healthcare in America. It's an editorially independent. The program of the Kaiser Family Foundation Kaiser Health News is not affiliated with Kaiser Permanente to help share an ancestor fun story. You can check it out at arm and leg show dot com slash pricing. Dan Weber is national broadcast and Tanya English is senior editor for broadcast innovation. They are editorial editorially as onto this finally. Thank you some of our new backers on Patriot. I couldn't make the show without. Let's two bucks a month. The more you get a shout shoutout right here. Thanks this week to Saul critic. Brennan Version Zone Weinstein had future run ski. Megan a Web Eddie Torres. Bill Ilk KANTER. Amy Sarah Sarah M Emmy Bean Stacey Evil Magdelena PLA Visa and Joan Allen. Thank you so much. See you come in and support. The show makes me feel so good. It's like Holy Mackerel. That is that's amazing. I know that's amazing.

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Carrie Meets Kimberly Meredith: Single-Blind Edition

Oh No Ross and Carrie

00:00 sec | 7 months ago

Carrie Meets Kimberly Meredith: Single-Blind Edition

"Welcome to own a rousing. Carry the show where we don't just report on fringe science spirituality and claims of the paranormal but take part ourselves when they make the claims. We show up. So you don't have to. I'm Ross Blocher. I'm just getting. This is Keri. Poppy Ross has not with me today. So we are both practicing social distancing as responsible members of society this episodes just to be me and our guest aunts. Ross's off rush editing. The episode you got last week the the huge corona virus massive episode. That we hope you all enjoyed while he was off making that I was off making this because we need. This was a really important time to talk about Cures real cures fake cures real treatments fo- treatments and there's a lot of treatments out there. Even for Corona virus. There are people who say that they can treat run a virus in ways that buck against our understanding of the science so wanted to better understand. those perspectives and that led me to a medical intuitive. Name's Kimberly Meredith now. Kimberly was at the conscious life. Expo when Ross and I were there We didn't get to talk to her then but I did stop her booth and ended up on her mailing list which is how I found out that she had written an e book about Corona Virus. I thought that yearbook and sort of went on a little adventure finding out a little more about Kimberly About her claims and invited her on the show to chat. So that's what you're going to hear here before you do. I just want to Kind of give you a little peek into my head space as I was doing this interview and preparing for this interview. Something that I've been thinking about a lot Especially during this outbreak but also just in the last couple years is a storytelling and how it works. It's easiest to tell a story when there is a clear villain and a clear victim. Those our favorite kinds of stories. They are the easiest sink. Our teeth into all you have to get rid of the bad guy. I think. An outbreak especially a viral outbreak. We realized how oversimplified that kind of story is there. Are people behaving badly when there's viral outbreak but there isn't one bad guy unless you believe it was created in elapsed where which it wasn't The virus of course has no intention of hurting. You just evolved like you did and yet it can do this tremendous harm and I think that there are impulses in the human mind. That are the same way that evolved For neutral ends but ended up being super super harmful I think that's what we're dealing with a bit in bad treatments for Corona virus bad treatments for anything it also is the case that sometimes we have good motives but bad information and good motives and bad information can still be a deadly combination. And I think that's what's happening here. I think Kimberly is sincere. Thinks she's Dudley wrong. You'll see why Dan Arieli. Who is a psychological expert in lying and deception? He wrote a great book called the Honest Truth. About dishonesty and one of the big things I learned from it was that dishonesty increases the most when we think we are being altruistic. Yes people live our personal gain. That's absolutely true. People live for monetary gain. Also true people lie to in arguments also true the biggest most powerful factor to make some lie is that they believe they're doing it for a greater purpose. I just wanted to put that bug in your ear before you hear this conversation I also apologize for the audio in this. We were talking via skype. Because that's the safest way to talk right now here. She is Kimberly Meredith. I'm happy to have on the show with me Kimberly Meredith. She describes herself as a medical intuitive. A healer psychic surgeon radio host former registered nurse and author of the new e Book Corona Virus. Twenty-one TIPS FOR PROTECTION. Kimberly is a trance chandler. She's a spiritual teacher and she says she's the most scientifically validated medical intuitive. And this interview is especially timely and important because right now as we're recording this the world is looking for a solution to this deadly cove in nineteen corona virus outbreak. And because Kimberly offers diagnosis and healing of the viral infection. And any other illness via her one. Our skype sessions. So please welcome. Kimberly Meredith Hugh Carey eggs for having me. My pleasure Did I get all of that right? I'm pretty match and think so I have been tested in a lot of different institutions with my medical medium ship. And it's been interesting doing all that. Yeah that's really really rare right but Then a medical intuitive gets that sort of a backing from the scientific establishment. Yeah I guess so I mean you you say you're the most scientifically validated so It's my perception that it's pretty rare. Is that not yours. Well I can only go with what has happened to me because I wasn't doing this for very long. I started doing my medical finding out that I was in medical medium. Just only since two thousand fourteen okay medical medium before Serta Now medical media and happened because I had a near death. Experience and after the end ee I became a Trans Channel. And after I started becoming trans-channel I found out that I was having the gifts of medical medium ship. Which is I have an unusual ability of scanning people with my hands and my ice rink in different codes. In the code linking Gives me information of where things are people's bodies that have cancer different illnesses and when that started to happen the word got out to many people including scientists in different doctors which led me to two different institutions? That wanted to test my abilities and not let you double blind studies and then began gap that I had these unique abilities. Finding things were correcting accurate in people's bodies. So tell us then about before the accident before the near Death Experience. What was your then a lot different than it is. Now I had a unique live. You know I work in dimensions now. Three D. Two fifty so I would say back then it was more of a third dimensional world which is what we're seeing right now. Which is very three D. I worked in a hospital and I worked on television shows worked on Grey's anatomy at work to General Hospital. I worked on brothers and sisters. I was called Medical Technical Advisor. Man I would set up shows. It looked like actual medical scenes were happening. Were people are having cardiac arrest that would work for directors real as possible and I also worked in a hospital side. Would you double double life like that? Oh interesting yes so you have this nursing backgrounds and then you moved from that more Gosh I don't even know what's called that more clinical field to this more spiritual angle before that transition you were working as an r. n. A registered nurse. Working Working Hospital and working in very sings came from you know got all kinds of medical things. I did was the CNA. Albion in various types of nursing all General floors and all over the place and then I went into doing medical technical advising until June shows and then I got hit by a car on foot in two thousand thirteen an academy an experience and then in the near death experience led me into having these multiple healing abilities. Now that I have a full blown craft California ed you Conventions and expos than and healing on people now and helping them find out what's going on with them so what happens. During that. Near death experience I went to the other. Siding came back and it was quite amazing. What soup like well I saw visions of Jesus and the Holy Spirit comes through my body. Awhile I left my body and I was envisioned envisioned Emceeing GOD Christ a Come through me and telling me that I was okay. I was going to stay here. And it was very frightening with seeing myself outside of my body and seeing them working on at the same time. I wasn't quite sure what's happening. Since like outside your body looking inside the same time I was experiencing a lot of light going through my eyes it was very traumatic experience. Sure if I understand correctly broke several vertebra. You came home with a wheelchair and a concussion and were you in a wheelchair for a whole year. Actually lawyers in that. Oh I actually rehabilitated. Home for six six months in a wheelchair when I came home from the hospital. I knew I wasn't who I was when I went in. I was transitioning into something else from there. I started blinking and I had been blinking when I was a little girl but it had left because it annoyed my mother but the blinking had appeared after I came home from the hospital. I didn't know at the time that I was a channel when the blinking started when I came home from the hospital but I was pretty much done with the life that I had had before because I was very severely injured. The wheelchair still is in my home. I live my life every day right now even understanding that as I don't completely understand that the spirituality of understanding that I live my life day to day in prayer in gracefulness of being hill by the Holy Spirit by God that I could end up back in that chair. Oh let's see do you. Do you feel like it. Was that belief that faith that got you out of that wheelchair. Absolutely because when I came home I was on lots of different medications. I was told that I couldn't hold head up for more than four to five minutes without the car on and I was working with a laser machines laser machines. I was working with my girlfriend. Who is an actress also nurse and she was praying doing ricky energy? Amy and we were deep prayer every day and I was trying to figure out what I was going to do with my life because at that point I was not in place to really support myself might fiance at. The time was moving out of okay. What a tough time. Yeah so basically At that point I was doing a prayer to spirit in Leaking happened and then all of a sudden I became. My voice started to change. I was starting to be different. I was turning into full blown trance channel. I not know about Abraham Hicks store others. Yeah chapters. They sometimes had this apple. I never heard of any of those. People don't let anything about mediums or channels or I wasn't really in this type of stuff. I was really in more of the nursing in the in the acting in the entertainment world and stuff like that. I loved God. I Love The saints that I was raised Jewish in the Catholic community stuff like that. But I didn't know about this stuff and so I was really in for a big surprise. Yeah no kidding. Okay so My understanding of channeling is that usually the individual on this earthly plane kind of goes into a few state and start speaking in the voice of of of spirit. So is that what happened with you. It and right now if you were to see me. I am blinking different winks. When you talk when winkle go yes the other Blanco's knows those links go. Yes ovalles blink. Constantly in different codes linking is going on all the time and when it first started my voice changed I go into a deeper voice. I didn't WanNa do that. I was like that's not really how I WANNA be more. The blinking started coming in and more the codes and a friend of mine came over and I started working on him. I just kind of went to lay my hands on hand to do prayer and all of a sudden may get healing on him slot. It was very spontaneous and then I said. Did you ever have a hernia thing here? And he goes I did. And that's when the whole medical medium ship Huger interesting okay. So now you scan the you can scan anybody's whole body in like three and a half minutes right sometimes. Even faster yeah. It wasn't like that in the beginning of a lot slower I was like left eye rider left Iraqi missiles and now it's like I can just go like that so like an. I could do it through skype being I can do it through. Who Radio shows? Just do it like you know the more you do it. Of course it gets faster and better. You work as like playing piano. Were being an actor. You know more you do something Natural things is to get better at it. Yeah of course so I read. I think it was in your book that you've found that it's about as accurate as an MRI or an X ray. How did you test that? Well I do it by people coming in and writing out on a sheet of paper. Exactly what is wrong with them and I don't look at anything and they come in and I actually find more things than the machine sign which I'm very annoying to people. I can be really really annoying and so I kinda just ripped through the whole entire body and I'll say oh. Yeah the Cabbie there or you've had this there or your interest in came from that will spot right there you know and I'll just go every single thing in the body and they'll say oh my God that's exactly what my the machine said. That's exactly the cat. Scans said that I can find breast cancer. Right on. Skype machine You know what I'm skyping you. I'll say out there something right there on your left breast and they'll say I just had an Anagram. They didn't pick that up. I'll tell you gotta go back and get an ultrasound. Go back in and I'll show I find. I stage breast cancer and so but also I did the double blind studies and they did it through the Demography machines and ultra sound machine where they put people in a scanner before they go in again. That's what they come out and I've done healings before they go in and out but I do this. It's not like I just do a couple of clients per day. I do maybe thirty clients per week. Wow and I signed things. A lot of these machines do not find yet okay. So you mentioned radio shows. Does that mean that you can do it without even seeing the person I do have a lot of colon's radio shows I do that sometimes. Yeah could you scan me right now? I would if you wanted to I wasn't prepared to do that. You're talking about You know I don't WanNa put you on the spot. If it's something you have to prep for any maybe at the end. Whatever you WANNA do okay all right. So what are some of the challenges of doing this kind of work? Does it ever not work or do people ever come back and complain that you didn't get anything right or is it just like it's been one hundred percent successful? I think it has to be to do with their state. I mean there's one hundred percent successful with scanty people in my office or one hundred percent successful with the healing. I'll tell me both scanning somebody Medical tooted median ship. I think I'm pretty accurate with with scanty people that come in the officers scanning people on skype. I very rarely miss something I think that would healing somebody might healing is pretty pretty great with which is all the tumors in glance and Jim. I have a lot of great success that I think that it's not me it's the divine doing that'd be all the way in with fifth dimension. All the way with your spirituality. Oh Okay what does that mean? That means that you're going into another dimension when you're having a healing Okay okay so then if you do a scan and someone Or you do healing rather and then somebody Doesn't experience healing or get sick later. Is that an indication that they maybe didn't have that same level of faith No maybe they need to come back again or maybe they just weren't all the way in with the energy of veer or maybe it's knocker time to be Yo Most people when they have a tumor disappear in front of their eyes and they've gone so we're in a third eventual frequency in order to have a healing through the Christ. Light do the energy. I don't know if you're underage. January fifth dimension is your third dimension. We're living in third dimensional world right now right. At a lower frequency we move into a fifth dimensional frequency. So when I am he'll I'm an financial frequency. We're diseases and suffering is in third dimensional frequency right so my understanding is third. Dimension is sort of the corporeal world. We're all familiar with a fifth dimension is a sort of Spiritual advanced state and then fourth is. You're kind of getting a glimpse of that Spiritual State. But you're not quite all the way there. Is that right right when somebody could do something like me where I have a paranormal ability or like Jesus? There's many people that can do things that are made get. Did we all have the ability to do these things? We are awakening. We're going into the ascension even though it looks really grim right now with what's happening to our world they can't figure out all these things we can't figure out these things we can come up with a cure. We just have to open up Arthur. Die Our intuition. The the weakening dimensional ziff dimensional frequency and we can be healed. People need to be guided. In-stat so what I'm saying is when I have people on cable or when NAT convention people know how to get into that frequency. We still have a Harry Potter frequency. We can get there like me for instance. I shouldn't be where I'm at right now. I shouldn't be able to walk around to all these things on the paper work. I should be in a wheelchair but I go into that frequency and I heal the when people are willing to let me guide in in that frequency than their he'll Like I had a lady you had four stage breast cancer and they told her she was going to dive and I get a healing on her and she told the doctors I am healed. I had a healing and I am. He'll I take my. I got a nutritional plan. I take my mic. My probiotics at you all this stuff. I'm heal and they're like no. You're not yes I am I am. He'll no you're not yes I am I am. He'll so basically. She healed herself to going into the Harry Potter world. Going just bringing that to nation and I know you understand what I'm saying. She will it and it happens. We dissolved a lot of the nodes under her arm. She still had to have the surgery but we did so much. That wouldn't have happened immediately. Chills right now because I just love her door her so match and she will it and it was so much better than what it what would have been. Oh I see so. She wasn't completely like the cancer wasn't completely abolished. But it was. It was sort of mitigated. Absolutely and then I find I sign people that are completely diminished of the tumors Go on my youtube. You'll see many women have tumors than I've taken my breast tumors completely off of me so there's nothing harmful of bringing in the spirit of God. Crank sure okay. Well you mentioned corona virus. So let's let's talk about that. I mean everyone is so so scared of that right now and for good reason And I I know that they're sort of differing opinions and different spiritual communities about what this is how it came to be new. Do believe it's a virus. Contagious a pathogen. If you will that it came from animals right while I only believe what my eyes blink and I only go with what my guide say so if you ask me questions on it I will tell you what they say so I go. I know I'm a little odd. I will go with what I say to you to meet you you so you can ask a question out for lady answered you okay Kimberley's guides is the corona virus. Is it an actual virus? That originated in animals and now has infected humans. I'm getting you know I'm getting three links times three which is actually confirming. That and I know a lot of people are saying. Oh it's a five G. attack you know it's like all this other stuff going on deathly I do get that. It is found in small the small animals in I do feel that it many s you know it's krona virus but it is many viruses now and there's many different kinds happening and there's some that are more mild in some more actually definitely severe and definitely going into Ashley No Respiratory deep respiratory pneumonia. And some that we know that can be heal faster and some know that are not affecting children and we know that and we know that it can be in you right. It can be doormat and we know that could be up to several weeks before even comes out so go ahead now has more questions okay So then what do you think about the The fear level in the culture. Right now do you think. That's in proportion to the risk or do you think people are sort of overreacting. What do you think about that? They're saying no they're saying. No people are not overreacting to ask the question again. Okay are people overreacting to the corona virus? I think there's situation going on. Where do because of the because? I have a lot of friends in nursing and a lot of you know things. I think that there's two things happy. I think that we need to calm down and get a lot of good knowledge. I think that the CDC Center for Disease Control Prevention and the World Health Organization are good places to get knowledge. I think that's really important that we get the right information. And I think that there is some information out there and I'm getting chills that were getting gets causing to get get more fearful so we need to make sure we get the right information and not information that causes to go into more panic. I don't know if that answers your question correctly. A yeah it does. I mean that sounds to me like We it's okay to be afraid as long as they're using that fear in order to be cautious and seek out good reputable sources of information. And you would say the like the World Health Organization or the CDC those are entities. We can trust absolutely goes to absolutely. You can trust in that understanding that I get from guys that this is going to get better and I do see a clearing in calming down towards the most we had to And I don't want somebody coming back at me go you said that Towards towards the sever this this energy I call it. Energy gets better in the in in in the Sun. Yeah so I saw that. There was a study released yesterday. That said they had updated their understanding of how long the virus could live on surfaces that it might be a stay as much as like forty hours on some services. Just you know terrifying can stay on a surface like copper or wood or steel For Up to I say it's either longer than that. I think it's even longer than that. It can stay and I think you go outside. If you're you know in the Air I think in the air you know. They say six feet away from somebody. I think basically It could stay on a surface up to their saying how long I think. The upper end was forty hours. Oh that was really long because I was thinking. I'm surfaces since it could be like three hours yet. Three hours was the old estimate and then they updated it yesterday. Yeah so I you know in the air if you're away from someone like if you're at a park in your life clearly Wyche really like a mile or two away and you're walking around. I don't really feel they're giving me a negative link that you'd probably be okay. The thing that I do feel is that staying in closed areas. Where your upper respiratory? He's not getting any fresh. You know you're locked in like a small space. That is not good sure. And that would match up with sort of the conventional scientific point of us. Well Yeah so you said on your facebook videos you said you can tell if someone has the virus or not With your with your blinking. So have you talked to anybody via skype? Who did in fact have corona virus? That's a good question. The Scans I've done so far. How like you. It is eye way by hand over their body and I would blink immediately on their lungs and I would get a negative link around the lung area and it would go off probably like fire when I know someone has cancer. I get flashes. Okay and my eyes to that really fast. When I know someone has pneumonia I want I know someone has a respiratory infection. I get a really fast right. I link and hot flashes again so I would assume I haven't got corona virus yet. I don't yet but I would assume that that would be a big hit for me that somebody would have to go. Get arm the swab test and then we know now that if he does come out causative now you have to get to swipes to make sure that you're clear. Okay but you can also do a healing via skype. So what's the order of operations there? If you do have corona virus. Absolutely I would do a healy and then I would go ahead and put you on my supplemental program. I would attack it like I would attack answer okay because I feel people are more apt to getting this. Of course if they're you know you don't WanNa go out walking around crowds and stuff like that but like they say diabetes heart but I also feel. They're blinking no. I also feel that you have a low. Immune System If you have a low immune system you would be more susceptible. You're saying absolutely and stressed out alone. You system like you really need to keep Bruce King Immune system right now is very. You're not drinking a course we shouldn't drink tap water anyway but Bayton making sure that we are keeping ourselves hydrated. We have to make sure we're getting probiotics that I know it's slim right now for getting things that the inner echo probiotic is one of my favorite probiotic in. It is really amazing. Provide Nice. I think I heard you mention that before. It's coconut flavored right here you know. Yeah so the Inner Echo. Koga audit is really amazing probiotic. It helps a lot of my severely. Immune suppressed clients. Nikki is the sponsor of it and she says like a teaspoon or something of it but I tell my clients to take a shot of it. Ju boost your immune system. Also vitamin D is very important since we're stuck in in right now and a lot of people are vitamin D suppressed and most of my clients. Come in when I SCAN THEM. I will know within a few seconds if your vitamin D suppressed and all. I know that is right. Now you can even take your hands in revenue together and go around your throats and you feel your lands on the side underneath your throat and you still like to Nachos those sides in a swollen that is a sign that your immune suppressed that is not to go into any kind of fear that just means to take a deep breath in Helen. Excel and start your vitamin D Vitamin D. Three and making sure you're drinking spray water and if you don't have spring water like sometimes people just think they can't afford it just making sure you have a filter on your sing okay. So you can have the tap water. You just WANNA run it through a filter. No because tap water is what bad? Yes field of you know. We've got all kinds of fluoride in there. It's not be don't WanNa be doing area. Okay Gotcha so I read your book. Corona Virus twenty-one tips. Oh Gosh I forgot the last say the whole name. Twenty-one you're you're making me forget it twenty twenty one top tips for protection. That's it so I bought it the second. You said that email out saying that it was up on Amazon and then later you said you're making it. Free ticket pulled off Amazon. Maybe a lot of books for corona virus got taken down. I need number one eleven and then I decided I don't want to put it back at. We could put it back up if we want. But we don't want to put it back up. I WANNA keep it free so I didn't put it on a publishing site called Waterside Productions Dot Com. And you can just get it for free now there. Okay cool so speaking of free services. Have you thought about since you do? Have this diagnostic gift. And since there aren't very many kids to test for corona virus. Have you thought about just offering your services at say an urgent care or an er actually made my skype slower so we need the Skype Much lower right now. We opened it. Up for Tuesday's. Thanks for asking that Tuesdays and Fridays Saturdays. I Open Saturdays to yet. But have you thought about going to like hospitals and stuff where they need to diagnosis? And they don't have enough diagnostic kits. Okay no I haven't decided to do that. No When I think I'm better doing the skype seats right now because so many people around the world can't sly and I have a radio show to on Tuesdays and I have an office on Mondays and Wednesdays at my own clinic is now full right now with helping people come in there. So you you can't heal a bunch of people at once right. It has to just be one individual at a time. I do have what's called the Angel Club on my website called killing trilogy. Dot Com is my website. And it's called the Angel Club and when I do that we do have a group grid of healing. That's a very good question to ask me. And when we do that we do have spontaneous healings who asked the group so then. Let's talk about then the the scientific studies you mentioned. So you've said a few times you're the most scientifically validated medical intuitive. You've done multiple double blind studies. So tell us about some of those. Like what's what do you think is the most impressive example Well I'm not allowed to speak about the one at New Relic Ions Institute right now. Because that's coming out of my book out okay I guess Dursban so many of them. I guess maybe the cancer studies just diagnosing over and over again sixteen tumors knowing where every single one within the body and then they find them and then I come back out. They say you are accurate. They are saying back and forth back and forth in just multiple. They put them in the scam. They know that there is a need. It's been torn than they bring the person back out. I scan the body I know were The knee has been torn. Then do a healing on me. And then they put them back in photography and then they see that the knee has significant Healing to the ME And then days later also see that. She's walking a lot better. Okay sort of like that. Type of steady goes back and forth and then also with the healing on the tumors they see significant shrinkage going on to with the healing so there's also studied me finding stuff in people with the machines and then going back and forth okay and these are all double blinded right and can you. Can you explain for anybody who's listening and doesn't know what double blinding is Well it's just back and forth and then you go back again. A series of weeks and months later in to see how the person is months months later again and they do another study on. That's what double blinding is so a my understanding. Double blinding is that the person receiving the treatment and the person giving it is blind to what is being studied. Is that not right? That is not right okay. So it's it's just a testing it over and over. That's what makes it double blind yet but also it's it's it's happening many months and months and months apart and it's a study between many other healers also okay so it's not just me. Many people being studied to Gotcha. That's line yet with this study. Okay and so. Let's see. You mentioned the nomadic sciences. You can't talk too much about that. That's is because they are Revealing that I was one of the most exceptional healers in the double blind study. Oh okay well congrats thank you. So one of your double blinded. Studies was with Dr Norman. Sheely knew he was not a double blind study. Oh Okay Yeah. He was a steady on me and then the Sitek was double blind study. I did reach out to Sitek and ask them to to confirm that and they said they didn't have any any record. If you like sort of passing a double blind study. Do you know what that might have been. No because that was My records and I have all the records from there was a double blind study Oh well maybe you can send it to me and we can clear that up. I don't know yeah that's from them. Yeah Yeah I mean if you can send it over. I'm sure you know if if it happened. Maybe they just couldn't find it in their records. I just want to show our listeners. If you're going to put this on Air I'm not gonNA have it on the air if you're going to try to do something weird to the show or something because I have my documents. Oh right no I just WanNa share your documents then. Sorry I don't understand what's you don't WanNa you don't WanNa what yeah. I'm not going to have this be released on air. If you're GONNA be saying something rude about me Did I say something rude about you? I'm I'm not. Yeah I did a double blind study and I have an eye okay. Great and what's the problem? I Kimberly Yeah. I don't I don't know what you're trying to get at by calling them and saying that. Oh well you know. That's what I do for. Every science claim made on the show. That's what a good journalist does right. I've I verify it. Yeah I give you my records great. Okay perfect perfect. That's that's wonderful. Yeah I don't understand Well you know I mean you can ask any any host any journalist This is just sort of part of the process you hauled over there. Maybe you called a secretary or something. Yeah exactly exactly so yeah. If you just want to send that over the great I agree to come on your show. Because I'm a very concerned person about corona virus and I am a one hundred percent medical medium. I was double blind steady. I was on the front cover of their magazine because of that. I didn't look into your show that much before I came on and I didn't expect to be you know treated rudely on your show up while I certainly don't want to treat you rudely Acting like that and I didn't know your show about calling around being a detective and also you can look at every single file. I have of the double blind tests. Great but that's wonderful. That's exactly what I want and going to end the interview right now because I don't like the way you're being towards me you being not don't I don't think it was very kind. I'm really sorry can really I? I certainly didn't mean to offend you. I are dying right now. I agree not are feeling sick. And don't feel good. Yeah exactly the very honorable of you. An unkind to do. Can I ask you this? Why can't I find a nursing license for either a kimberly meredith or a kimberly and the Mont? Which is your legal name. I don't know if you don't know I worked for many years. yeah. It's really uncommon right. I mean usually the nursing board is pretty up on those things one there. Well maybe you can send that to yep okay great so I'd not agreeing for you to put this out as you probably know. That's not how that works but I'm hearing you. I hear that you don't like how this interview once. No it's very unkind and I in a hospital for years and I don't think this is okay to produce a very not nice. Well I have someone asked me Carry I don't believe that you went to USC School of Journalism. All I would do is I would show them my diploma. That wouldn't upset me. Why does this upset you? It's not upsetting me. Okay you're asking me didn't do double-blind that's upsetting me. Not The other thing is I have worked in hospital for years but I believe that. York's hostile asked you if you were a nurse but I just don't think this is a nice interview that's all. I don't like the view and I'm GonNa comment agent right now in town to politics not pretty out. Okay I mean you can certainly ask him to do that. But a fine being honest with you. I think that there's a possibility here though you had a near death experience Where you had a traumatic brain injury and one of the common things that happens after that is that people have facial tics they have What's called ocular dysregulation? Where they're they're I. Blinking is You know out of sync and maybe you interpreted that as a spiritual event and now you're telling people that you're healing them of a really serious dangerous virus when you're actually stealing their time. I haven't killed anybody of a dangerous virus. But you're offering to you say you've sat in many places that you can heal corona virus. Kimberly Oh you did. Would you like me to pull them up? Would you talk about where you've said that you could heal virus? You mean in the book Let's see we have a few places I can tell you if you have the virus or not through my blink King So when we pray. And you do the blinking The power of the Holy Spirit is so undeniably amazing. It can cure anything. We have cured cancer. We can cure the corona virus. That was on your radio show. So what do you where do you WANNA go from here? Kerry where does your point? Well what do you want me to do? Honey okay. I'M GONNA I'm GonNa answer that. Honestly do you want me to? Yeah what I would love and I know this is asking a ton I would love if you just actually looked at your personal history and said is it possible that I went through something really traumatic. Really difficult something most people would never can never imagine and I ended up with these physiological outcomes. Like my eyes blinking and so on. I turned to a spiritual solution and now I might accidentally through no fault of mine. I might accidentally be harming people by telling them I can heal them and taking a step back and asking yourself. If that's something you want to contribute to the world here. I am a real healer and I heal hundreds of hundreds of people and I'm doing really good for people at a really great medical intuitive and I really don't feel by saying this to me is very kind Yeah I I do. Great Work Well is there anything else that you want to say to get your story out anything? I got wrong that you want to correct the record. No I do. I do great work and help a lot of great people and I help people that are not feeling great and I do a lot of great stuff for everybody. I think that's probably true. I think people probably leave your office feeling better. But if they're sick that's not so bad. Nobody lease by my office unhappy. I believe that but if they're still sick and there have a false sense of safety that'd be bad right. Nobody's leaving my office with sauce sense of safety But I feel like what you're you're doing is very unethical. Okay what am I doing? That's unethical At just what you're doing right now is not cool. Just varian cool I to understand what you're saying is that Do feel misled. Yeah okay tell me about that. Why Do you feel misled? Because there's no denying my talent and what I do biking scan people's bodies and I helped sign things in them. I know were for stage. Cancer in people's breasts. Before they know they go to the doctor and they say yeah. That's really great. Now we know you've got it and I can catch so doesn't get into where circumstances and I do have these abilities that are helping people before it gets worse and I'm not harming anybody by the gifts that I have and it's a real sadness to me that you're trying to say that I'm doing something wrong when I'm not I mean I think your intentions are totally pier. I think that you really believe what you're saying. I'm going to end it right now because I've saved hundreds of people from getting severe breast cancer going in two stages. There's a lot of good that I do and I'm sorry that there's something that you're feeling That I do wrong. Well I can't wait for the double blind studies. If that's true that will completely vindicate you. Okay Okay Great. Send those along Mary. I guess we're not doing that scan then if you want to. Have you undo the camera? I'll scan you? Oh okay I high ready when you are. Where did you find out that they said I was in Iran? I watched a lot of your videos and and I mean it's in a few places and I was an rn. Well you did where I never said. I was an RN nurse. No you weren't to nurse at all so you're shaking your head. I never put in there. I was in our end. Let's see you've said it a few times You said you are a nurse for many years On Your Radio Show Then you said I was nurse for years on One of your Youtube Videos. I worked. I went to school to be Alvian. I worked at the hospital for many years. I believe that you worked at a hospital. May certified nurse okay. I'm I'm getting to impressions from you. One is that yes I was a nurse and one is no. I've never said I was a nurse. Which one is correct? I with going through my nursing but nothing book is coming out saying that. But you've said in different places. Yeah but it's not going major book that people think I am because of my abilities of mine. Medium ship is so fast and the words. Did I say it's because I'm channeling but I'm only quoting you. I'm not looking at what anyone said about you. But I was a certified nurse for years going to the hospital working in all those places for many many years. Okay so if you had a nursing license wash no way that they would put me on the cover of that magazine. If I didn't do the steady oversight check lab. I think you've been Sitek lab. I don't think that didn't happen. I just think that maybe it wasn't a double blind study. Why they write that. I didn't write that okay so anyway. Well because I think they didn't do their job like I'm doing okay. We'll anyway. I'm not here to argue with you and I don't want to go on a show that's going to be hurting my work that I'm doing in the community because I'm working so hard to help people Okay well I mean you know in this show. You've also toby that I'm bad at my job that I'm unethical and I feel okay without being challenged in that way. Well you don't have to say that you are you take it out. Let's pack. I don't mind it. Did you want to do the scan sure? Okay thank you Why don't you agree? It's definitely a double blind study. Okay why don't you stand up for a second? He thinks he's still hear me. Okay sure while you're getting a lot of links on your uterus area okay and then have you turn around if you can. And just take a deep breath. Inhale XL OKAY. Great linking on your throat. Okay around your T. had dental something around your jaw. And you're not okay Going on around your your mouth area Also I keep getting around your chest. God blinks going. God God God God. Did you ever have something happened to your thyroid? No What about your mouth I grind my teeth at night And then what about in the lower part of your in your stomach area in your uterus area Nothing in my uterus Stomach there blinking in the two spots. What about like are you oscillating right now? Are you having your Menstrual Strike? Hit the linking on the left side of you over on your ovary okay. I'm no I'm not I don't know if I'm ovulating but because I don't track by cycle that way but I am not menstruating something on the left side of you over by your hip area and then also your heart area of like every like something over there is linking to me did you ever have any surgeries Yes so let's see when I was nine. I had a surgery on my arm. See this yeah and it was saying like you received by the Holy Spirit and it was going. God God God in this chest area. So that's why I said something happened to around here. May I mean could it be something I don't even know about when I was a baby or something? Noble what happened with you. Would you say the Horse? Oh I fell off a horse and I shattered my elbow and they had to remove all the pieces of the bone and that was at eight nine. I think they're saying eight. Oh Okay and then. They're winking over by this jaw. They need to do more Probiotic or Don't fluoride. I don't know if you're are you doing that. Yeah use floride. Yeah they've like that's not good and then they wanna make sure you boost your immune system more so once again. I don't know why you have to give me. You know. This is where I go into the body and start to figure out. Do you have regular menstrual cycles? Have you had kids? Nope okay. Well maybe it's getting ready to oscillators something. Okay maybe could it be in my Philippian tubes. It could be that even going nonstop. So if you're in the office I would go in and start to do like a healing on you on the left side. I mean you could say you're totally wrong really horrible disease. I don't get that you've got cancer. I am getting that one thing so I if you commit. My hip has arthritis or something like that No nothing over there. I do get Migraines I get them a lot hormone you know. I'm getting wife Migraine that's why when get the uterus and get around her throat Oh Okay Owen. To say you eat fish jury jury that would get to your nutrition man. Eating fish fish is really you know polluted. It's got that Biden. Hormones iodine from the ocean. You know that I would help you with your diet. Would go into that. And so you're scan you said is a more accurate than x Ray. So you could see if you know. I don't know anything was missing or whatever you have organs missing. I do okay. The only thing that I feel if you had your appendix out I don't feel that stand back up again. Do you have slain out or something. Okay will you got me. Then because it keeps the hair down towards the lower part of your body it would be in the lower part to the left lower parts of the left why it keeps linking over that area but you said my appendix that would be on the right. No you're appendix is yet right. You thought that that was gone for a SEC. Put your hand over Cheer Bendix. Yeah over over so either. The gallbladder okay I have both of those. They seem to be in working order but I did have my Philippian tubes. Removed that blinking on. You said No. Nothing's wrong with the uterus. Nothing is wrong with my uterus. Yeah but in your uterus one of your ovaries or floppy into this blinking nonstop but your tubes Arnson your uterus lanny your Philippian tubes are not in your uterus but I was leaking on your left side nonstop which worshiped loping you're asking where in the body are the Philippian tubes. It was both of them. Know where which both are taken out. Yes okay anyway linking in your lower area Yeah I mean. Would you say that's more accurate than an x-ray equivalent really? I mean you think an x ray would just generally say something's weird around your bottom. I think that I think that I'm helpful. And I think that it can help out but I think both are great and I refer people to both. Mehan them good. That's good. I work with Western medicine and we do. We both do it together. But if you're telling people you can cure them. They don't need to go there. Nope I never say that you never say you can cure people. I never say knock to go to doctors. No of course. Not But if you say that you can cure things. That person doesn't need to go to a doctor. They've been cured. I don't care people got US okay. So I'm saying if God cures people through you then. They need to go to a doctor after that they go to Dr Still. I'm sure some people do. I can't imagine they all do if they think cured. Or what's the point of view being there while that's besides the Point Harry? If they want to go they can go. They don't they don't have cute but anyway. I think we've already done enough but I'm just saying that if they WANNA go they can go and if they want to do a session with me can do session with me but you see what I'm saying though right that like if someone went to you and you said you cured them. Most people come to me with their doctors. They bring their doctor to the office. No honey. They're seeing their doctors. End Me together right okay. But what do you add to the equation? Then I add nutritional programs Creir and comfort. I okay and some things that they don't know that they have. I can help them with that too by saying it's vaguely in your bottom somewhere. No we do really great. Scans in healings. Okay I'm GonNa go now because I have another call. Okay all right. Thank you so much. Kimberly I this was brave and I appreciate you being on. Thank you so much. Carry a gun. Bless you well there you have it. That was my interview with Kimberly Meredith. The medical intuitive you can find her at healing trilogy Dot Com. I WANNA thank Kimberly for being on the show I did contact sitek energy laboratories one of the places. She mentioned that she says ran a double blind tests on her. A REP from Sitek didn't confirm or disccan firm her claims but did give this statement as you probably know we test a lot of products modalities and practices that all make various claims after fifteen years an amazing variety of studies. I can tell you that most do not perform as advertised. A representative from the Institute of Nomadic Sciences said I can confirm that Kimberley was one of the participating energy medicine practitioners in a large pilot. Study we are now writing up the results of the pilot study for publication in a peer reviewed Scientific Journal Till then they couldn't talk about those results an Amazon. Spokesperson didn't reply to the question of whether Kim Release e book was removed but they sent this statement quote we encourage customers to refer to government sources for frequently updated authoritative guidance about the virus and protective measures unquote and they suggested the CDC and the WHO in particular so the day following this interview. Kimberly contacted us and she said that she does have a nursing license. Though she declined to to provide her license number she said She doesn't need to prove anything to us. But the offer still stands If she'd like to share any documentation we would be more than happy to include that any future episode and that includes any double blind testing so The the offer stands the doors open. She wants to come back on the even she could a WanNa thank matthews trigger for legal counseling. Ross for suggesting the very good question about defining a double blind study. Dr Breeze Simmons a sports medicine specialist. Who offered her thoughts on the very effects of head trauma and Jesse Myers? Who suggested contacting Dr Simmons and remember from various videos featuring kimberly meredith and I can scan the body like you know in three and a half four or five minutes fast and I'll know whether you have anything that's going on in your body. This is really a good idea to take take me up on that. And the power of the Holy Spirit is so undeniably amazing. It can cure anything. We have cured cancer. We can cure corona virus. I've been doing skype for over three years. Now that more people are jumping on and during this skype with me and I scan the whole body. I won't know if you have the virus or not do my linking I scan people a cancer tumors. Are Everything three and a half minutes. So after this accident everything came to halt with my old life. Woah male life was I was nursing. Profession also medical consultant on television shows. I've been tested. I Dr North Sea sheely Sitek Subtle Energy Laboratory and both confirmed my healing abilities and I participated in double blind studies across the country. I have a lot of honor for nurses nurse for years. You accept the healing acceptably spirit into accepting spirit. I am held. Keep reading it off the left. I bleed completely keep reading here. Your neck keep reading keep reading. You're doing it. I'm healed on. I'm healed no good. It's off yeah. Thank you Hi I'm Laurie Kilmartin. And I'm Jacky kitchen together. We podcast called the Jackie. Laurie show. We're both stand up comics. We recently met each other because women were not allowed to work together. I am on the road or engaged for a long long time and so our friendship has been unfolding on this podcast for a couple years. Jackie Constantly Works Rhode I write for Conan and then I worked the road in between we do a lot of stand up comedy and so we celebrate stand up and we also bitch about it. We keep it to an hour. We don't have any gas. We somehow find enough to talk about every single week. So find us. You can subscribe to the Jackie Laurie. Show at maximum fund. Dot Org or wherever you get your podcasts gay. By maximum fun dot org comedy and Culture Artists owned audience supported.

cancer skype Kimberly Holy Spirit Poppy Ross Kimberly Meredith kimberly meredith Amazon Death Experience Kimberly Yeah Kimberly Meredith Hugh Carey Harry Potter Corona breast cancer Kimberley Ross Blocher CDC
New Mix: Pinegrove, Anna Meredith, Sudan Archives, 4 Mellotrons

All Songs Considered

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

New Mix: Pinegrove, Anna Meredith, Sudan Archives, 4 Mellotrons

"Take a deeper dive into the art lives and legacies of billie holiday ella fitzgerald and the women who played a vital role in inventing american popular the music scene watch videos read essays and here the full turning turning the tables playlists at n._p._r. Dot org slash turning the tables from n._p._r. Music you're connected to all songs considered. I'm bob boyle and so it's the day before labor day weekend. Everyone seems to be way so i'm alone. I'm alone recording this in my bedroom studio and i'm going to start with the music of sudan. Sudan archives <music> <music> back got. I'm ross and trust in my own saw aw aw <music>. I think i hear fill space. I cau- this he's nine <music> uh-huh that sudan archives a singer and violinist. We've been loving for the past few years. She's had a series of a._p.'s but now finally debut album ms coming from sudan archives and judging from that song it could well be one of the best records of one thousand nine hundred thousand the odds coming out on stones. Throw records no no details yet but seeing that she starting a tour at the top november. That'd be a good indicator that the release is coming around that date. We'll see so this next. Song's things been on repeat around my apartment last few days. It's a kind of alice in wonderland entail called hi alice by norwegian singer. Jenny hovel a highly suggest suggest you follow along with the words of the song if you can. Jenny's last name is spelled h. v. a. l. and the reason i say that is a lot of the words are whispered and it's really worth knowing what she's singing about. Listen to the song called high hours from jenny hovel. It took a <music> it come from a stretch in town. Uh-huh <music> centuries <music> sketch yeah joe eh <music> <music> <music> at the club awesome uh-huh it take ooh that's jenny hovel. The song high alice's from an album that comes out september thirteenth called the practice use of love. It's on sacred bones records. The album takes on the idea of intimacy from multiple vantage points. I'm going to go next to pine. Grove rove who continue to make introspective and energetic songs have a sound of their own and a new single their first for rough trade records. It's called moment. It's a song song about gratitude in the face of chaos <hes> aw uh dr <music> <music> scared stiff no lights uh scared aw mm-hmm <music> sir <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> the pine grove. The new song is called moment comment. We'll take a quick break be right back and you're listening to all songs considered from n._p._r. Music support for n._p._r. And the following message come from carmax for more than twenty five years carmax has made it easy to sell your car they provide free appraisals and offers on the spot carmax will buy your car even even if you don't buy there's in fact carmax has bought more than eight million vehicles to learn more and schedule your free appraisal visit carmax dot com <hes>. It's all songs considered. I'm bob boylan in this second. Half of our show is going to be largely instrumental and i'll start with anna meredith a the modern british composer she uses rhythm and repetition to exhilarate and also at times to be restful and placid this song moon moons leans to the side of quietude but it has a couple of surprises along the way <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> uh-huh <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> yeah <music> <music> <music> <music> <music>. Anna meredith breath to song is moon moons. It's from her next record. Called fibs is a fun augmented reality app for the song. I know it's on the apple store for iowa who is devices. I'm not sure if the android versions come out yet but search for moon moons heme o n m o o n s all one word and again the artist is anna meredith and the alba's fibs it comes out october fifteenth on black prince fury so long before sampling which came of age around the early nineteen eighties there was the mela tron in the nineteen sixties. It's a brilliant contraption. It's an instrument with a traditional looking keyboard but that keyboard triggers tape loops in those tape loops they might be strings might be horns and might be flutes. It was a unique sound one that didn't fully reproduce the sound sound of these instruments but oddly altered them giving them on a character of its own. There's a new album called mel tron variations featuring john modesi pets sent sewn jonathan kirksey and robby grant and this song is called pulsar <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> the <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> uh <music> <music> uh aw that's on pulsar features john modesi of the group pedestrian morton and would pat sansone from wilco and also autumn defense fans robby grant who also records under the name vending machine and jonathan kirksey who's one of the founding members of the blue shift ensemble. They're all at the melatonin ron and various forms the atmel chon variations is a live concert album which is out now and also there's a film of their twenty eighteen performance which is coming <music> out very soon. Now i'm going to end with a song by will oldham aka bonnie prince billy. It's almost twenty one years old. The song is called one with the birds but it's just been made more beautiful on a collaborative project with price of the national and the unsolvable eighth blackbird the album title when we are in human explores the darker more cryptic side of us humans. Let's go out on the song one with the birds sung sung by bonnie prince billy. I'm bob boylan for n._p._r. Music it's all songs considered <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> the purple martin in sheahomes and she says eddie in law like so man love. I love <music> so <music> the psalms <music> <music> <music> with six in the morning <music> rise from danced in slumber see. I'm in with the blank. We free <music>. You're one they would you <music> x._l. Robin like so many <music> love <music> the song <music> we're one with the <hes> and so in your <music> <music> <music> like so so many seagulls like so many like so many throw share and so many eggs yeah well i swear on you without using misleading heart rending nding were when we <hes> inhuman we won with the burr yes when we hide our feelings. We may as well fun ooh.

sudan anna meredith Jenny hovel bob boylan carmax bonnie prince billy bob boyle jenny hovel Jenny ella fitzgerald billie alice Grove rove jonathan kirksey robby grant pine grove sheahomes a._p. melatonin
Podcast: Writer Meredith Wargo

KSCO Pet Radio

00:00 sec | 6 months ago

Podcast: Writer Meredith Wargo

"So welcome to the program and I was very impressed and well. I was very impressed with all of the fine work that was done on the dogs book that had to have been a CO author. Did some of that and I'm not saying that she didn't write a good book but I know what co-authors do I've been one and it's it's a really good book and it shows thank you so much. I really appreciate that it was. It was definitely a labor of love and it was the project that took a whole lot longer than it probably should have. But I think at the end of the day both Diana and I were real happy with the results and and as you well know I mean there's there was a lot of detail in there and we had to sort through a lot of material to you know. Try to decide what was going to be appropriate for the readers. What needed to be less out. So there was a lot of thoughts and You know hard love that went into making it what it was and we have a podcast of the interview with what's her first name. Diane I thought I think I thought it was Diana and I was afraid I would. I also thought dawn and I was afraid I was going to embarrass myself but she was telling me before we did the interview about how nervous she was and how terrible it would be to do radio and she was just great and I recommend the podcast This is a book of a rescue started. Beautiful Dalhart Texas. It's okay if you don't know that it's in the panhandle. I've been there That they started at a great school and is still going today over a decade and a half her and it's a good rescue and a good group and she was a great interview and it's a good book and Meredith helped. Write it and Meredith. You've done a number of dog an animal books. Can you tell me a little bit about that? Well it's not so many books that had done. I've done a lot of articles over the years so you know. I have a degree in journalism. As every great journalist wants to do one day is to write that perfect book. But you have to start you know in baby steps and so I started focusing on just trying to write about lot of animal health issues. I started writing about a lot of rescue groups throughout the country. That we're doing amazing things you know similar to what dogs is has accomplished. So it's been building from that and you know it takes a lot of time and dedication you had to build relationships with different editors and find contacts and yes. There are a lot of stories that are out there that can and should be told but for me. I have to write about things that I feel passionate about. And that things that you know kind of kind of speak to me on a certain level so so I'm anxious. Now that I've gotten first official book under my belt to hopefully find some other topics start working on and You know book kind of putting my focus on that over the next year or so Unfortunately with dogs the timing of dogs is released we was the book came out on March. Thirty first right in the middle of all the pandemic so we lost a lot of publicity. That was scheduled for it. So actually since then we've been spending a lot of our own time trying to promote the book through social media through word of mouth just trying to keep the book Relevant until hopefully when things get back to somewhat of normal state and bookstores start opening up again. You know maybe we'll be able to start having some book signing events and continue the publicity but right now my main focus really as as Diane's focus is just trying to keep social media you know happy and alive kind of focused on the book and making sure that You know enough folks learned about it and hopefully will help share the story of of the amazing sanctuary. Or you're welcome to share our podcast if that will help your promotional efforts because she does a great job describing the book we spent half an hour talking about it talking about the school program all of those things so I thought it was an inspiring story. I have the book sitting on top to be honest of a lizard cage sitting behind me where I know exactly where it is so but it is. It is a good book and you'll learn a lot about rescues. A heart warming story as they say in the trade and I would recommend it as good light reading a happy story. Well thank you and I think that take away from this from this whole episode of the book was really that kid can make a difference and I think a lot of times You know people underestimate what children can accomplish what they set their mind to something and you know keep in mind. These were nine and ten year old children who started this and it was their dream. It was their commitments. And you know I've been an animal lover all my life but I'm not so sure that it nine years old I would have had the dedication or commitment that this group of students did And for those of you listening who don't know about Dalhart Dalhart has awful weather Summers our terrible winters are equally terrible and yet these kids kind of put all that aside and show up every day after school on the weekends during their summer vacations just because they felt so driven to make sure that these animals for taking care of and they they gave their all in helping them find. You know a second chance at happiness and so I think you know I think Diane and I want people to realize that children do have a lot of capacity to do good given the right set of circumstances and the right mentoring mean obviously Diane and her family were wonderful role models and they were very invested in the children and I think that made a huge difference but it was still the kids you showed up every day regardless of the weather regardless of how they were feeling. And you know that's very inspirational and hopefully other children or other. Schoolteachers can see that well. You know this could happen here. You know maybe we could do something similar in our little town or you know all for the good of helping you know these poor dogs and cats who by no follow their own. You know deserve a second chance hot in the summer cold in the winter. And I'm adding this for you. Tornadoes in the middle true. That's Dalhart Texas weather. You can add that and it's a better line now. I saved that up for you because it really is. I mean Dow hearts in the panhandle. And there's a barbed wire fence to stop the tornado. That's that's all. There is up there so that's true it's true so yes when you step back and think about not only. Were these children doing this work in the environment that they were doing this work. I mean it's just kind of makes you want to scratch your head. Thank wow well if they could do it. You know as an adult you know. There's really nothing that I I can't do so so really you know. That was the beauty of the story. It kind of I think those little nuggets of what these children did and their dedication. Kinda helped write the book on it now. It was just very inspirational And were truly as a CO author for it. I mean it was such a privilege for me to help bring the story to lie. I've I've known Diane I've known about the shelter for for many many years and I always felt that it was a story That needed to be told. And so it took a lot of rough drafts and restarts and putting the Book Down and picking it backup you know month later years curve bed you know. That's just part of the process. I think that if you ever Redo the cover and I spoke to the publisher about this spell out because the name of the book is D A W G s which until you realize. That's an acronym sort of is making fun of Texas accents and stuff so it took me a while to take the book seriously. Because I wasn't clear to me that it was a book about a rescue site suggested down in a little bar at the bottom. They spell it out. I think I pointed that unfortunately the title is long enough as I understand but I just wanted to get it in a little bar right across the bottom not in big type so that it would be clear what dogs meant because for a long time. I didn't pick up the book thinking it couldn't be serious interesting. Judging a book by its cover make it easy right now. That's that's great feedback. We certainly won't you know pass up on. That's the only thing I found wrong with a book beautifully written and and we also need to say it's not like anybody literally anybody could do this. Dianne and her late husband. She is a gifted teacher. She has left the classroom to do this but she's a gifted teacher. Her husband who died during the process of this must have been a very loving caring understanding person who helped a lot with this and what cancer got him by the way. I don't think we need to go into that hold on. I'm a pancreatic cancer survivor. Was it that you know? I think Diane's pretty private about that so I'm I'm not if she didn't divulge I talk to her about it and I don't even remember. I just was going to include him as a person walking for when I do a walk this year continuing though because lots of really true. We won't talk about my cat. I'm happy to talk about but we're not going to talk about In any case Good Book and we like it very much. Now dog writer. Can somebody actually make any money doing this? She used to be able to make money writing. But I don't know that there's very much money in writing anymore and I'm a writer who doesn't right like I used to aid you know. The industry has changed so much as you're well aware. I mean with all the social media now outlets it's it's tough and so I think the answer your initial question. No you can't make much money at it. But I think you know. Riders don't necessarily do it for the money we do because we feel passionate about things and you know we feel that we have story to tell and Yes if money comes out of it so much the better but You know I think unless you really connect with either somebody famous or somebody who is a well established author. You know it takes time to get to get your name known in the publishing industry And unfortunately and I think to this is part of the change of with all the social media stuff and this is not a negative necessarily but a lot of self publishing has kind of changed the face of the true traditional publishing world and I think as a result it's kind of diluted some of the success of Professional writers trying to make a go of it in this publishing world. Anybody can publish a book. Now right And it may not be worth publishing or may not be the best but the market is getting so inundated with so many types of books and I think it's harder to I think it's harder for the readers to kind of navigate through all of the choices out there to find those who does well written books who you know are supported by traditional means or whatever but having said all that you know. I have no regrets for doing any of this. I I like writing at like getting you know information out about a canine health about adoption. Stories about New Technology that's available for you know helping animals heal and you know that's kind of my platform. I feel like if I can just even educate one person either about technology or about a process. Then you know mission accomplished. And that's that's all I'm looking for at the end of the day and we are all volunteers doing this program despite there being commercials. That's KS CEOS. Money and I do stuff at K. Seo like the news that I get paid for but nobody gets paid for working on pet radio which is why we have patriotic account that a few people have joining. Give us a little bit of money every month. Thank you very much we appreciate. We picked up a new one this week. That's how infrequent it is that we picked up one this week But that helps pay for a little bit of the web-hosting and we appreciate it but there is so much free content out there today that and go look at our website. Look at all the great stuff that is dot com. I'm linking to blogs and other people stuff and we write our own and I- lane and tons of stuff there. None of which anybody really gets paid for very much one of the magazines. I think dogs tres. Somebody says you know if you pick up all of our stuff remember we assign it? We do this we do this. And we pay for it and they don't say how much they pay for it but it's very much but that's still real money and therefore I follow their linking. You'll see on our site a lot of the stuff we have are glorified links a picture. A headline a paragraph or two of copy and a link over to the original source. So you see their ads and you see their copy and you get to see their site. And that's significantly. What is up on? I even link Termer Cola because I like some of Karen stuff. She's now an alleged author on our site and it says contributed or something after her name. Because we're following their rules and want him to get credit and want them to get the links and you know if you like their story click on it and go read it and that's how we have tons of content on the site but again you know nobody's getting rich doing this and you know magazines now or five or six bucks if you WANNA buy one in the store and then you can get so much of the content free online. I worked in the technology industry for many years. I used to make Boo Koo Bucks as a technology analyst and commentator and columnist etc etc etc. This was now all ten to twenty years ago when there was real money still are back when Silicon Valley really was something that was really interesting and fun. I was a participant in that and we did conferences that you had to pay five thousand dollars to attend things like that. Well that doesn't exist. That doesn't exist anymore. And therefore the jobs I mean. I had six people working for me. Those jobs don't exist anymore either and we pay pretty well but the company that we worked for doesn't even exist it got sold. Idc full the McGovern's it was. It's very sad. What has happened to publishing and Craig Newmark to thank for it? It's a very different different world now and yet you've lived through it so so you know how how been impacted by by all the social media change and like you said the free content that's available you know at the click of a singer and it's sad it really is because four you know. A lot of people were able to have a successful career. You know doing what they loved. But I think those days For the release but immediate future have probably changed in. May Not Return to to what it was before so Laura puts in like twenty hours a week booking guests for this two hour program. Believe it or not. I put in twenty twenty five hours a week mostly on the website and I need to start writing more but I've been so busy trying to make the website so that maybe someday we can get a nickel for monetize ing it and make it fast and make it so it works and get good content up there and then find out that if Laura runs with pictures on her blog that we post that it slows down the website. So good by pictures. So you won't see pictures on the contributed. I've learned an awful lot. I was lacking out. Oh Yeah I mean. I'm I actually understand wordpress now more than I'd like to and it's hollow but that's a free platform when a company called vignettes started doing the scene at website. I hired them for half a million dollars to build a website and I had to design the editor Ford. Now you get all of that and the hosting software absolutely for free and I probably spend a hundred dollars a month on various aspects of this website. And you don't have to spend anything and it's all there it's cheap and it's and therefore it cheapens the content because everybody thinks everything should be free. I like five. I pay like five ten dollars a month for the entire New York Times now and then the Christian Science Monitor wants eleven dollars a month. Well I can't give everybody ten dollars a month. I'm sorry right right now. It's it's a totally different animal out there and it's You know I know there's some benefit that has come as a result of all this but I think there's probably been more muck gonNA say harm but more Downside to it for those who as we said who make a profession doing what they love and But you know the world is changing as we know it anyway so I think that you know those who are serious about wanting to continue their career and in writing we'll stick to it and we don't do it for the love of money but we do it for the love of you know helping to educate folks and You know promoting groups like dogs and letting others learn their story and hopefully inspiring others. So I guess you know that those kinds of things are intangibles so we just have to focus on those as well as you know the few pennies that we might get as a result and it is pending now. Passion helped me get my cancer more. It's cured at the moment. We'll see what happens now. Pasha passion I am no evidence of disease at the moment and have been since last September. Though I had a scare a couple of months ago the passion will not pay my electric bill. Now and that's that's the problem you have and you know that's the problem. You have trying to be a writer particularly if you wanted to do what you do so very well talk to us and we only have about three minutes. Where can people find your work? Who do you write for if somebody wants to read Meredith war? Go and I'd recommend that they do because you're a fine writer Where did they find you? Where do they find you out with the best places to go to my website? Which is meredith work? Oh Dot COM On their have links to the book I had links to other articles that I've written for various dog related magazines. Dog Fancy Dog Dog World Kind of just have a portfolio of my articles on their so. If anybody's looking for a writer in the Animal World Please feel free to contact me. I would love to help. Tell your story and You know there's that's the good thing there's never. I don't think we'll ever run out of material to write about. It's just finding the people who have the stories and want their stories to be shared so please feel free to contact me again. Best place to do is Excuse me Meredith. Wargo DOT COM. You can also find me on facebook and on twitter and You know let's let's let's make this work somehow and continue promoting all those hardworking people out there and hopefully saving some animal lives As a result as well.

Diane I writer Meredith cancer Texas Diana Dalhart Dalhart Dalhart Texas Laura Craig Newmark official facebook Pasha publisher Dianne New York Times Silicon Valley New Technology K. Seo
Interview with Meridith Elliott Powell : Turning Uncertainty to Competitive Advantage

3X Value Growth

00:00 sec | 11 months ago

Interview with Meridith Elliott Powell : Turning Uncertainty to Competitive Advantage

"Hello everyone and welcome to the three x value growth podcast. My Name Is Carrie. Sol's I'm a value growth advisor as well as the bestselling author of multiply. Your Business Value Three steps. I always start every show with a little bit of Trivia about New Hampshire my home state. You may not know that America has its own stonehenge. America's Stonehenge is four thousand thousand years. Old It's a megalithic stone constructed site located in Salem New Hampshire and it's open to the public so that's my trivia about the Hampshire for today. Today I am joined by Meredith Elliott Powell welcome Meredith. Thank you very much. I'm excited to be here. I am too. Where are you calling in from? I am actually today in Fairfax Virginia. I am a Marriott. Speaking at a conference excellent will alright meredith. Thank you again for joining me and for those of you don't know anything about Meredith. Here's a little bit of a brief introduction about why you might WanNa listen to her voted one one of the top fifteen business growth experts to watch atop sales expert on linked in and one of the top forty one motivational speakers Meredith. Elliot Powell is an award winning author keynote speaker who helps clients learn strategies. They need to succeed. No matter wonder what the marketplace does. I'm really excited to have you here today. Meredith and our topic for our seven question interview is turning uncertainty too competitive of advantage. And we're going to do that in just seven minutes right. That's exactly right. Let's go for it. Meredith are seven minutes starts now. The first question is who's your ideal client my ideal client are CEO's or C. Suite professionals that are successful but looking to take it to another level really looking to take it up a notch perfect so for these CEO's and executives. What problem are you trying to solve love when you're looking at middle market executives in these larger companies? Their biggest problem that I'm trying to solve is to turn on certainty from an obstacle to an opportunity when I work in organizations so many that I go to right now asking how things are going. Everybody's saying things are going. Great business could be better. But Oh aw this. Uncertainty as if uncertainty is always going to be the big obstacle to growth and my job is to go in there and shift paradigms about uncertainty and help you see it as Opportunity Kennedy perfect so with that in mind. My third question Meredith is. What are the typical symptoms that you see owners experiencing or talking about that? They recognize the uncertainty. But as you said there they don't know what to do about it. They don't know how to turn it around. Yeah you know the typical symptoms that I say our number one on a lot of them are dealing with you know employees or team members really struggling to want to change and be excited about change. The other is just how so you figure out what path or what direction to take when you're not really sure what's going to happen and then I would say the third is the fact that it's really really different. Two different style of leadership many of the leaders that I work came up with a time when they were really in control about the changes that were going to happen in the direction that they were going to make and we are now living in a time when the majority of what could impact the success of your organization lies outside of your control. Those are really powerful trigger points. Aren't they. Yeah they're yeah they're it's I said it's just is doing business in a whole different type of way. It really is so oh building on that one of the most common mistakes that you see that they are making when they're trying to sell that on their own. Yeah there's okay so I'll have to limit it to a couple apple number. One is that they are. They're still trying to compete on product or service and so there's no product or service that you make in today's marketplace place. Your competitor can't make wouldn't make or doesn't make so that's not what's differentiating you in the marketplace is the experience in near reputations. The first mistake eight is still trying to compete on a product or service and not really realizing how important the customer experiences the other mistake I see them making. It's still outsourcing employee engagement and culture to human resources. I mean now the most important thing you have is the team you surround yourself of with and the most successful companies. I see that's become the job of the CEO and the last and probably one of the most important is the fact that the biggest mistake stake. Even though we know change is coming. They still are sitting and waiting for change to happen rather than anticipating creating scenarios ears and really planning for change before it comes. Those are powerful mistakes. They should be looking out for exactly so so my fifth question for you is what is one valuable free action that you can suggest to. Our audience members that they can implement. That will actually help them with this problem problem. You know I would say that my favorite for that is a tool and it's interesting. I'm going to speak about it this afternoon when I speak at this conference. You know you need to at least once once a quarter. Get your team together whether that means your leadership team or if you're somebody who's listening in you run a small business. Just get your team together and sit around and brainstorm one of the changes you see happening in the economy. What are the changes you see happening with customers? What are changes? You see happening with competition. And what are the changes as you see happening in technology not as they relate to your business but just getting yourself outside of your business and thinking about the things that are happening because because when you do that you free yourself up to start to see the changes that are coming you sir to see the things that you can go ahead and change now. It's just doing doing this exercise with a with a company last week and we got to competition two of their biggest competitors are getting ready to go through mergers and that's real opportunity unity for my client. You know to go ahead and start to really get out there in the marketplace is the steady one. So you need to know my biggest piece of advice in an action you need to take is stop being so much in your business and get outside of it and start to think about the changes that are happening. That's great advice to a larger scope to look three three sixty rather than staying firefighting in Your Business Right. Muffle that's really powerful so six question. What's one valuable free resource that so you could direct people to that will further help them solve that problem? There is a tool that I have on my website called future external environmental scan fees for short and it is a tool that runs you through exactly that. It's a tool for brainstorming on your society on customers on competition and and just that's a tool that people can use. It's a great little exercise to use in their companies. What's the link? The link is just go to value speaker DOT COM VALUE SPEAKER DOT com. And it's right there on my homepage. Perfect and my last question for you meredith is. What would be one question that I should've asked do that would give our listeners? Great value and providing answer. You know I would say that the question is what is your biggest belief about the people who are successful today. What is the one thing that you see? Consistent across organizations leaders business owners and my answer to that would would be just passionately. Believe if you build your network you will change your life. We may live in a high tech type of a world but at the end of the day. The thing that really differentiates people woo-hoo succeed from people who don't is their ability to build connect and expand on relationships. And so that is that is. My biggest biggest piece of advice is everywhere. You go connect to people reach out every day and just stay in touch with people. There is no problem. You have that somebody you know. Can't move view one step closer to solving. Wow what a great way to end this interview. Thank you so much meredith. Meredith Elliott Powell. Thank you for joining me on the three s value value-growth podcast today. I hope to see you again. Thank you it's been a great interview. Thanks for checking out the three x value growth. podcast if you like what we're doing here head over to items and subscribe leave us a review or rate us. It's very much appreciate it. And if you'd like to learn more about the three x value growth model go to W._W._w.. Three X VALUE DOT com forward slash modeled for the pediatric.

Meredith Meredith Elliott Powell meredith CEO America New Hampshire Salem New Hampshire Carrie Sol Elliot Powell apple advisor Fairfax Virginia Kennedy C. Suite seven minutes four thousand thousand years
Meredith Aleigha Wells - Actor/Singer Who Is Dysfunctioning Just Fine in Her Wheelchair

Why I'll Never Make It - An Actor's Journey

46:34 min | 3 d ago

Meredith Aleigha Wells - Actor/Singer Who Is Dysfunctioning Just Fine in Her Wheelchair

"As with most episodes of this podcast, today's interview actually happened two months ago and I've been looking forward to finally sharing this conversation with Meredith eleo wells. She's an actor and singer who discovered her love and talent for dancing only after she started using a wheelchair. No one is guaranteed their health in the level of health that they have at this very moment, and I, think it's important to just focus on what we can do like every day and not get too far ahead of ourselves. Welcome to why I'll never make it featuring conversations with fellow creatives about the realities of life in the arts. I'm your host Patrick, Oliver, Jones, and to support the work of this podcast go to donate dot win me podcast dot com where you can choose between a one time donation or ongoing monthly giving. Well here we are at the end of October and as I mentioned today's interview actually took place back in August Meredith was in Cleveland at the time, which has pretty much been her base of operations so to speak since twenty seventeen so when I graduated from UMASS AMHERST I moved to Cleveland for about two years and I was dancing in a physically integrated company here in Cleveland and at the end of two years is when I can start jumping around a bit more in I definitely get a lot of work here. So a comeback pretty often but. Yeah. It was in Portland all last summer I went to Beijing so. Here and there everywhere these days, which is exciting. Bud like most of US covert has sidelined her performing career and brought on its own complications even right now in quarantine and all this stuff like my goal time is just to make sure that I'm taking care of myself in the best way that I can chew minimize my symptoms affecting my work. And then brings me to the reason for such a long gap between our initial interview and the release of this episode. It was actually a suggestion from Meredith to wait and have our conversation be a part of this Oughta know MIA awareness month. Now I know you're probably saying. was that. And to be honest. I hadn't heard of disorder. No Mia either until I met and talked with Meredith. It's basically an umbrella term for a range of medical conditions that affect our auto nommik functions in other words those bodily functions that happen automatically like a heartbeat or temperature control in today, Meredith will talk about her particular condition and how it has affected her as a performer. But one interesting thing happened as I was editing this episode and doing more research. Several years ago I was diagnosed with the particular heart irregularity and as it turns out that condition falls under disorder. No, MEA. I. Experienced what's called Cardiac syncope and vase available syncope. You had no idea when you started listening today that this was going to be a medical episode well. syncope is basically a fancy word for fainting. And the fainting that I've experienced is due to both cardiac or heart related issues as well as vase available, which basically means stressful or traumatic triggers that cause a sudden drop in heart rate and blood pressure leading to fainting. So I say all of this to say that Meredith, and I share disorder no MIA in common. However, her condition is very different from mine and comes with its own array of symptoms and we'll be going into more detail about that. Something else we share in common is actually common among most performers and attraction to an a desire to be on stage from a very young age. My first musical was fiddler on the roof back in the ninth grade for Meredith it was a different classic Broadway show. So I started theater in the seventh grade, I did a production of Annie in Middle School It was funny because the year before that our number auditioning for the musical, just having a horrendous audition. I mean I had never sung in front of people I was so nervous I'm pretty sure I saying the song like three times the tempo. And? The. Next year. I like came back. Then somehow like land believed in limited school musical and my mom was Kinda shocked I. Don't think she actually thought I was Gonna get it when I told her that no I got a call back and she's like what floor was like Anne Doug 'cause that was me as a little kid. Yeah. So I was in that production in middle school in Scott Bit by the bug in you know I. Quickly after that was like I want to do this for Living WanNa, do I wanNA perform for the rest of my life? Like that's what I WANNA do when I grow up in one. You know when you're a kid, they're like, oh, that's great. uh-huh. uh-huh and I think. Especially at that age people expect you to grow out of sight and I just. Grew out saying that. You're you're still that Anne just just looking for the next tomorrow. Yeah. Especially says. So then you specifically chose a college with theater and that kind of training in mind. So I decided you know when it came that time in high school I was going to pursue college degree and ended up deciding on Umass amherst the University of Massachusetts. Amherst actually has a long line of notable graduates from the world of sports. There's Julius Irving, the hall of Fame Basketball, player known as Dr, J. With The Philadelphia Seventy sixers and from the world of entertainment. The list of graduates includes Michael Haley famed producer of the HBO Mini Series Angels In America. and. There's also singer Natalie Cole and actor Richard Gere. So Meredith majored in theater and was following in the footsteps of talented individuals. But as so often happens once we start planning and looking forward to the future life has other ideas I started school and about a month into freshman year of college. So you know I'm doing it for real really going for it, and then month into pursuing the degree. I just start getting super busy all the time in lightheaded and nearly passing out in I just didn't know what was wrong. You know other things started cropping up. just they just of issues and things like Bat and It was a really scary time before I had a diagnosis didn't know what was wrong. I didn't know what the path ahead was GONNA be in a lot of questioning whether or not I was going to be able to pursue this palace. and. Around right before my Sophomore Year of college. I. Started using a wheelchair and around that same time, I got my diagnosis of pots which dancer posture or the static Teke Cardia Syndrome. Very, Long. Had, lots of practice saying at this point us that's good and. It's a form of discipline, oh mia or on onomic dysfunction. So essentially, everything that's affected by onomic nervous system that you don't think about can be affected. Now, there are about fifteen different types of disorder. No Mia mine the most common whereas Meredith's condition affects about one to three million people worldwide. So what exactly is pot? Here's Mayo Clinic Physician Philip Fisher to explain it a little more. For patients, pods is feeling tired not having much energy not being able to live a normal life for physicians. It's pots, fealty s posture or the static Teke Cardia Syndrome that cardia means fast heart. One of the signs of this condition is when somebody changes their posture position from lying down to standing up the heartbeat successively fast that's the posture or the static tech Cardia. The S of pots is the syndrome. It's the collection of symptoms including dizziness headache fatigue tummy upset. That gets people down. So parts is a condition that makes people feel tired makes them feel rundown often dizzy and very uncomfortable with headaches cummings. Anybody can be affected, but there seem to be two kinds. There's the adult kind of pots which affects mostly women between ages thirty and age fifty. And then what I see as a pediatrician and affects teenagers majority are girls, but it can be girls or boys, and they're what parents would thinker the late deal children high-achieving hardworking thriving in life, and then they get sick but instead of bouncing back it than it tips their involuntary nervous system out of balance and they're left tired and rundown their blood flow is disturbed so they can't get the blood going to the right place at the right time. So they stand up in feel dizzy they can't move their food through their intestines well, and they feel rundown and uncomfortable. As Dr Fisher mentioned pots is a syndrome covering a whole host of symptoms that can be different for each individual. Yeah Yeah so heart rate blood pressure breathing your digestive system even simpler things like your pupils dilating seem so silly. But you know my friends lowest joke about how you know i. go outside I just like kids just like Bella without her glasses be seconds. Oh my goodness. So freshman year when you start to have these symptoms, don't really know what it is, but it isn't until your sophomore year that you actually get the diagnosis specifically. I got the diagnosis right for my sophomore year that it was good to have clarity as to what was happening decided no may there's also different prognosis is depending on what the cause of your hots is and because it's a syndrome and I don't know the cause of my plots still to this day. So I don't really know what the prognosis is. And because of that, I was very nervous to get into or continue the path of performing. I wasn't sure if I was physically going to be capable doing that and I tried really hard right after my diagnosis to. Really get into things where my disability didn't affected as much at least like it felt that way you know being the costume shop more I was thinking directing classes. I was really trying to find a Sassa theatre where like what I looked like in my my type and all that kind of stuff just didn't matter. But I felt like the more I went in that direction, the more I sell called to perform and I kind of just had to make a decision at that point to be like I. Don't know how I'm going to do this. But I know that if I don't do this, I'm going to be very unhappy to the rest of my life in GonNa wonder what if so? I just have to like I I'd I there wasn't a doubt in my mind like this is what I have to do. This is what I want to do and I really just can't let other people's expectations of what I can can can't do it. This disability stopped me doing that it's Just listening to everyone else and I'd be really unhappy but I would assume that it was at least a joint effort as far as with your doctors, obviously parents and that kind of supportive group to figure out how this can happen. With my doctor way working on managing the symptoms. So every contract I have is always important and I feel like as time has gone on Scott Better and better thankfully, I'm as far as management goes the. Still. ENCYC- still chronically ill it's clinic it's not going away. You know my parents were very supportive. I. Think you know they were nervous in the way that I was nervous but I think when I made that decision, I have the confidence behind i. think that they kind of followed suit So I really lucky to have that can support them at that time. Obviously, you can look back on it now but at that time, what did that future look like what kind of roles did you think you could do? How far did you think you could go in performing any when I say I didn't know how like there was no. I had no frame of reference really. And around the same time as when the first person wheelchair was on Broadway. So that was the first time I was really seeing. Okay this. Is Possible. But you know also are disabilities like me in alleys, jerkers, Rindt and So you know is really hard for me to say far thousand. Go I think at that point I was still in an educational setting. So I was really just focused on doing the best I could in the educational setting and you know crossing that bridge when we got there like everything. Especially, pre diagnosis was just one step at a time in one. Just really having to let it in a moment and really having to focus on what you can do each and every day because you don't know one is guaranteed their health in the level and the. Of Health they have at this very moment and. the quality of life that they have tomorrow or next week or a year from now. So I, think it's important to just lay focus on what we can do like every day and not. Get too far ahead of ourselves as far as what we want to accomplish him where we think our careers can go because every time I think my career is going in one direction I just like totally get hit with a detour. Experience? I was a theater major to begin with but. After becoming disabled I ended up I mean, it's not because I because of my disability or like getting sick but I had always musical theater up until that point I don't know really really why decided to do theater and not musical theater. But. I realized that my my one true was musical theater whether it's singing dancing and acting together separately like I really enjoyed those three art forms and how they can. Sign Meredith started out with a general education in theater, but eventually decided to do an individualized concentration in musical theater. She was grateful though for the broad range of subjects she learned. The degree in theater felt safer in a way because it was you know well rounded you're learning about costume design, scenic design, their options in I feel procession in a lot of things in theater now, which is great. I'm really grateful for those first two years in the program but I'm glad that I decided to take a more focused approach my last two years in school because I think it really paid off I mean it's so important that not only in our general life, we need to be well rounded but specifically within theater to know what this department's doing that department's doing because we are just one of many cogs on wheel, you know making the whole thing run. I think. It's good to be well rounded in that way. If nothing else now as someone who mostly just performs writes just having an appreciation and understanding of all the work that's going into it I think definitely is such a good thing to have the performer. One of the greatest things about the performing arts is that it allows us to share stories and experiences with an audience in her senior year Maribeth brought together all of the theatrical training and skill. She learned to write her own one woman show called dysfunctioning just fine. So the show is about my diagnosis journey and my in the parallel storyline of my first clear relationship. So when I was writing I, took into consideration the fact that I am the performer and I didn't write anything into the show that I couldn't physically do, and also it's a one woman show. So the whole time on stage and at first I had an intermission. and. Then one of my professors after seeing the premiere is like GonNa, get rid of that engine mission like it's just it takes people out of it in such a short show. Why do you have intermissions like because I basically can't do the whole thing on my own because it's just nonstop for a little over an hour. And so we ended up writing in. It's an intermission for me but not the audience basically like me. A little bit of a break about Mitch. And I'm curious. I mean obviously these are these are two big issues in your life when your illness and then you have this first relationship what gave you the idea to put them both in the same show. So the story begins and it was funny because my adviser on the peace at the time was like is this real life or did you just make this up for dramatic effect referring to the line at the very beginning of the show where I say the first day I started pointing to symptoms of the illness is the first day we started dating, which is true. And so that kind of set itself up for those parallel stories to be told. And that relationship. I had a lot of support from that person as. This was all going on and it Kinda you know I had someone to help me navigate during that time and I really wanted to discuss the intersection of queer disabled identities in. So I thought not just focusing on the diagnosis, but also focusing on the relationship that was happening throughout that diagnosis would be a good way to kind of bring that to light. It's two sides of this personal journey that you were going on. Yeah. So we did the show for the first time. The premier was in October for dishonesty awareness month back in two thousand sixteen and it did really well we sold out all three nights before we even open. So that was really exciting and then we ended up doing a remount with the new edits. When we found out, we were going to New York City at a different theater. On campus the next semester in than we did a small school tour. Did it in a few places and it got into a festival called the my true colors festival in New York City which was part of the New York City Pride Festival is a clear festival since you touched on it briefly I'm curious. Since. That first queer relationship that you had in college. How has that journey been for you than? Iran parallel to your initial diagnosis and your health journey. But since then in a more general sense has your sexuality in something that you've been able to embrace more as the years have gone on. Yeah, I, think that something that was really nice crowd dysfunctioning just fine. Especially being the very first professional gig that I ever did was the fact that it told my story as disabled person in also told my story as a queer person in a really. Kind of just put it out there that I'm clear and a disabled in that something that people know about me. Going into my whole career, which I think is good going into it from a really. Good place and like living my truth. Yeah, and I think I've definitely. ACCEPTED DOT and embraced it In, warm each day as time goes on. Through the creation of one woman show meredith was able to process and explore this personal and emotional discovery as well as confront the realities she would face as a performer. As a disabled artists. Being. Realistic. Gigs are not always like. Coming my way you know it's it's it's definitely it's it's a waiting game sometimes and not everyone is super open to the idea always in That just is what it is not to say that deseo people can't be successful and do a lot of work You know there's definitely lots of great disabled talent out there now doing. A lot of cool. Thanks. For me something that became really apparent is. In my career is that. During those tines. I need to be able to have control over my own career in something that's helped me feel like I have control over my career is being able to create my own opportunities and so dysfunction just fine came out of a place where I I had decided I'm going to pursue this path. I had made that decision. But not everyone was like you know on the train yet right and so. I I struggled a little bit in college right after became a wheelchair user not to say, all my professors were like this. I had wonderful wonderful professors but. There definitely was an interest in me in my work when I first started school ask started getting sicker. I noticed it Kinda starting to dropbox and Dysfunction just spine really came from a place of not being cast in being frustrated and being like well, if no one's GonNa cast me I'm GonNa cast me I'm GonNa to make this show and I'm GonNa make it happen. Each production of dysfunctioning just fine was well received and with each performance her confidence grew in the show got better that by the time she got to New York, for the my true colors festival, she received the Purple Skies Playwright Award for her writing, which is remarkable considering she's fresh out of college was barely beginning her professional career and so the first month out of graduation was all day everyday wearing three different hats and that production as the writer, the performer and one of the Co producers of that and just working non-stop every day. And then we performed that in New York and then three days later, luke to. Ohio. It was just it was really post graduation. The month after graduation was really a very whirlwind kind of time in my life merit of the senior year in college not only led to the creation of dysfunctioning just fine. But was also where she discovered a dance company that would provide a pivotal moment for her as an artist, and specifically as a dancer I was actually doing research on the presence of disability in dance. In College and through that research had found dancing wheels and during my winter break my senior year I flew to. In addition. I got the job on the spot and I came back second semester already had a job in hands and that was a really nice. Feeling. It was back in nineteen eighty that Mary Very Fletcher founded the. DANCING WHEELS COMPANY IN CLEVELAND. The dancing wheels company is a professional physically integrated dance company. So it's comprised of dancers with and without disabilities that are all training together and perform together. Mary was born with Spina Bifida and went on to become the first professional wheelchair dancer. In the US through her company, she wanted to offer others with disabilities and equal access to the world of dance while we look at. How they've trained in the past they've had training many of them come from colleges and so. They're placed according to their experience level. So they could be an apprentice or they could be a full-fledged company member or perhaps a student, and so then they need the finer training of the technique in ballet and modern, and that's what they do. They train every single day Monday through Friday. Basically being in that job at I was really difficult. My body was not used to dancing four and a half hours a day Monday through Friday and you know touring as much as I was. We have fifty to seventy performances a year worldwide. So they're learning choreography brand new choreography, or restaged coffee every day. Integrating all different types of abilities but I think it's important to note that wheelchair users were not bound to our chair like our chairs are a former of freedom and the company in itself in physically integrated dance as an art form. I should say really kind of exemplifies that and how it can be used for all sorts of different purposes and creative ways. Society often disabled people through architectural barriers and so you know as the Ada the Americans with Disabilities Act came about. We started to eliminate some of those barriers both the architectural and stereotypical views so that opened. The Desam of equality. Starting off with a really physically demanding job of being in a dance company. That really Kinda set me up for success in that was told me. You know we're just talking about detours that was such a detour I never expected to. Pursue dance not way like I. Always just Kinda considered myself a mover and I. Becoming, more of a dancer really something that came after becoming a wheelchair user, which I think is really interesting in not. Such a combat. And you, yourself sometimes seen will chair in sometimes stone is that correct just depends on where you're at I assume your health goes up and down in that respect. So my health in my symptoms vary day to day I can walk for short periods of time. But if I go, you know out to the grocery store to go clothing shopping when that is safe to DC though helmets. Generally. Win them out of the House I. Use my wheelchair for really quick on something or something where mostly going to be sitting like going to a restaurant and close by I will have to walk there anything I pretty much always use my wheelchair for me just because at my worst I can perform in my wheelchair and I can't always perform standing. So it's just something that's more consistent and easier to manage before you got your diagnosis than were there times? Where did you ever fall collapse onstage with? Luckily knock on Wood I. It's only happened like during rehearsal it's never had happened during a show. But I was collapsing a watch and. Using a wheelchair was kind of nodar of safety in the sense that You know sprawling risking concussions all the time Also something that comes with my pots is just chronic fatigue and I. Am able to conserve my energy using a wheelchair in a way that I know other treatment has really allowed me to. So. It's pretty much. The only thing that I've been able to find dot has helped me still be able to perform. You'd mentioned about you know not everyone was on the same journey, the same supportive journey that you're on and I assume that convincing casting and producers those type of people of of what you could do on stage was was a hurdle for you at times. I think come something that I loved about doing the physically integrated dance thing before I really. started. Focusing. On musical feeder more of the time. I still was during musical theater when I worked for dancing wheels I do like little gigs here there. I'd have rehearsals during the day for dancing meals rehearsal for a musical at night it was. This kind of fun being able to do it all. You know you definitely for yourself out if you do too long like that but after I did a lot of those gigs with them. It was on my resume started including more dance stuff on my resume and I think one of the hardest things auditioning for musicals in a wheelchair is that. Most people have this idea that people in wheelchairs can't dance. So as lovely as I might sing auditions, there's still that notion like Oh will how is she going to do the dancing and they think that maybe only going for a lead, I wouldn't take ensemble role because I can't dance quote unquote or something like that and Really, the thing that helped me the most was just when I did get cast in shows just working hard and you know Kinda, proving that people in wheelchairs can dance and just doing the best that I can't count couch said in the educational setting you know. Taking every GIG ONE GIG at a time and just doing the best you can that Gig because you know when it comes to the next one, you've kind of start to prove yourself in Know Start proved myself in Cleveland that like Oh like yeah, she's done the show she's worked at this theater like well, if she can. She obviously can do something if she's getting cassidy stance heavy shows like let's let's give her a dance She's got like in. So it's nice that I think my work has been able to speak for itself as opposed to knee having to advocate so hard for myself and I would assume that. Are There Times than that? You have to work with the choreographer and say, this is what I can do. This is where I would need to do this. Instead of that how does that really work? So usually how I go about it. You know just right off the bat in the audition is that win a are giving the combination I just translating it to what works in the wheelchair and I've gotten a pretty extensive vocabulary And gotten a lot of practice doing that. So I've gotten a lot quicker at doing that in. Most the time In figure out something in that dance call. So That's when I don't WanNa be bothering the CRIAG refer to too much in the dance got a lot of people see things like that but once I'm in show. I will do that as much as I can but then when I have a question about something. I know go to the choreographer asks something like you want me to translate this. You know you want it to be my arm doing it or do you want me to do? What they're doing with their legs with my arm or something like that and just so I wanna make sure that when I am translating. Choreography I'm not taking away from the choreographers intentions. And usually I have a pretty good relationship with choreographers in the sense that if they don't like something day, see like you know I have a very open line of communication I always encourage them like you know I can change it just let me know and if I have questions I'll definitely come to you so that we make sure that your vision is getting across even in this translated version. has there been any any pushback about you being in a wheelchair or being cast in a particular show. Experiences Kinda just been in our dance caller some. A lot of staring a lot of people come. Came like what's this girl GonNa do like in Bay just have no idea in manual once I start moving in groups and they're like, okay like that's what she's GonNa do and I think it's just one of those things like people just don't really get. When I do until they see me do it. Singing exactly the same acting exactly the same except them sitting I think the dancing part is the part is that's the most different in the most challenging the part where people have the most hesitation. Yeah I think it's just one of those things like we've been saying how? The work speaks for itself in I. Don't I think maybe at first people are skeptical maybe but I think once. Doing it and doing it with everyone in blending in you know in the non sample like, okay anyone could do this on the I. requested that. One of the most visible examples of performers in wheelchairs making it in this business comes from allie stroke or. After graduating from nyu's Tisch, school of the arts, Alley competed in the glee project and got second place giving her the chance to have a guest starring role on Fox's glee, which already featured a person in a wheelchair as one of the main characters of that show. A few years later she made her Broadway debut and also made history as the first actress in a wheelchair to appear on Broadway stage in-depth west of. Revival of Spring Awakening, and then in twenty nineteen, she reached new heights as the first actor in a wheelchair to be both nominated for and win a Tony Award. That was for her performance as evo any in the revival of Oklahoma. This award. Is for every kid who is watching tonight who has a disability who has a limitation or a challenge who has been waiting to see themselves represented in this arena you are. Yeah I think that Alley stroker's is a great example and it's so I'm so ecstatic that she has gotten the visibility She has I think that it's really good to see authentic representation on stage and I think she really is a trailblazer in the. Disabled. Performing. Community and It's funny that you brought up Glee because that to me is a not. So great example it's it's good in the sense that there is someone in a wheelchair in acquire in that school but. What makes it not as great representation in is, is the fact that dot individual isn't actually disabled realize. Whereas you could have given a person's disability in opportunity you right there instead we give it to someone. Who is able bodied or disabled, and that's something that's really rampant and the performing arts. Community. I. I was reading the other day I. Think it's Low. Number I WANNA say two percents of roles like screen or something are disable. In Ninety five percent of them are played by able bodied actors. The comprehensive studies she's referring to was commissioned by the Ruderman family foundation and examined the frequency of actors with disabilities in the top ten TV shows of the two, thousand, fifteen and sixteen television season. In total, it looked at thirty one shows across streaming platforms, cable and broadcast networks and determined that only four actors with disabilities were cast amounting to less than two percent of all actors on the screen. J. Ruderman President of the foundation says quote by systematically casting. Actors portraying characters with disabilities Hollywood is hurting the inclusion of people with disabilities in our country yes. So that definitely is a challenge. In the sense stat proving that having an authentic representation on stage is more valuable than having. An able bodied person play a disability. I think that's not a big thing in my work. I feel is just You. Know just showing got this is an option. I think when people start realizing that there are tons of detail performers out there with you. Just you just gotta go looking a little bit and you know casting directors who like well, we could look forever for a disabled actor or we could just take someone who's good for the role who? was more easily accessible to us i. think is kind of a cop out in my opinion. My work is a good mix of roles. That were originally written for people with disabilities and. A mix of roles that are specifically disabled people and They want disabled actors if possible. I think where I am right now and getting a lot of roles in Cleveland and. Sometimes. It's like, oh, we need a person with a disability like how about that girl meredith like? Like people know me they know be as an actor in wheelchairs like not to too many of us in a smaller city like where I'm at right now. So you know sometimes it's a matter. People up see my work in the past and getting called to do something it's good to. Be Able to get your dorm not way to. Merida's frustration comes out not only as a performer and with some casting decisions, but also in her day to day life. As the. With Disabilities Act was celebrating its thirtieth anniversary. This past summer meredith was interviewed by youth today an international digital publication dedicated to examining the wide spectrum of complex issues in the youth services industry. She was asked what the Ada means to her. As covert maintains a foothold in almost every country around the world. Meredith is grateful that the one bright spot has been the use of online and virtual resources to make life and work a little easier. However. Before the pandemic giving those resources wasn't usually available. Now we're death that we times where I wish I could have access classes. I miss. I would Miss Class, a lot because of. My illness and I have a note taker in. So we get the notes from class but especially I always did my best like if I was having a really rough day and I could only go to one two classes made sure that those were the theater ones the ones that in person where it's really important you know to have a lecture like that's the one I'm gifting notes from like it just trying to conserve as much energy as possible in those times but it would have been really nice to be able to watch the lecture you know from my dorm room or something like that is kind of some of the accommodations that I was told weren't possible now everything. Higher Ed looks like that now so it's just You know it's frustrating but also better late than never right It what happened happened I can't dwell on the fact that I didn't have access to that. But now all my will state will. Have Them. So that's good. and. So you mentioned that this is a chronic and so it will be good days and bad days going forward through for the rest of your life basically. Yeah. Some people with plots goes away If it's caused by a virus, people will get mono and that get pots in those cases where it's caused by a virus, it goes away I've had my pot slunk enough in there wasn't any virus that we know of that happened around that. China. So it's unlikely that my will go away. So it'll either stay constant where it has been or it. It would just decline and. I don't know where it's going. So I can't worry about it. Honestly at the end of the day. I just have to worry about the task at hand I think for me I have that goal in preparing to work for someone else also always have a goal a something that's creating my own opportunity for myself in that goal for me right now is trying to start my own nonprofit theater company. I really want to be something that's. Accessible to other people with disabilities and have a lot of opportunities in mostly remote in the way that things have been happening right now not necessarily that all the performance with be virtual although maybe some of them will be but doing things like. Collaborating remotely for eighty percent of it, and then doing a workshop being together for a month in working on it for that month. So trying to do more things like that I think it really brings together my passion for helping other performers with disabilities and then also my patron purchase traveling in being nomad and being able to work from wherever. Launching, some educational opportunities for artists with disabilities as well through that. It is. So Wonderful Meredith wants to use her experiences to create a base and foundation of support and training for others. Certainly learning to live and work with a disability is both challenging and necessary. But there's also a lot of education and learning that needs to happen within the able bodied community as well. My conversation with Meredith was certainly eye opening for me. And if you enjoyed and God as much out of this as I did then please share this episode with someone who you think could benefit from this conversation. If you WANNA share on social media, you can find why I'll never make it at win me podcast. A big. Thank you to Meredith and to you for joining me on today's episode. I'm your host Patrick. Oliver Jones and I also record edit and produce this podcast. Dylan Adams is the booking producer music on this episode provided by Blue Dot sessions you can also find links to the various interview clips you heard today in the show notes coming up next meredith answers the final five questions so join me then as we talk more about why I'll never make it

Meredith eleo wells Cleveland Amherst US New York City Anne Doug Middle School syncope dot Patrick Philip Fisher Oliver Jones Cardiac syncope Teke Cardia Syndrome Portland producer Beijing