20 Episode results for "Mercer Island"

Re-opening schools and closing grocery stores, this week

Week In Review

52:14 min | 4 months ago

Re-opening schools and closing grocery stores, this week

"Thank you to the kyw listener members who form the backbone of this station as well as the larger npr network over fifty. Two thousand people contribute towards ninety four percent of kyw's operating costs so we mean when we say we can't do this work without you learn more about the impact members have on this vital public resource by visiting k. u. o. w. dot org slash appreciation and welcome to friday. Welcome to week in review. Every friday we come together. Grateful that we are still here and we catch up on the important happenings and i always invite a great group of fellow journalists in this week. It's new york. Times tech correspondent karen. Wise i karen in there to see you kiro seven and politics reporter essex porter. Welcome back essex. Thank you bill. Good to be back and host of seattle city clubs civic cocktail seattle channels. Joni baltar joni. There could see everybody ted cruz unavailable this week. We were not able to reach him. But it's good to have all of you by the way you're you're probably wondering what s exporters studio looks like You can see for yourself because we're live streaming the show on facebook on youtube. You just search for k. u. a. w. public radio and team before we get into the news. I'm just wanting to know. How is the the blizzard for everybody. Yeah that's about it right. I mean it was honestly. I loved it. Why did you live year old. I'm a four year old and being able to have a outdoor activity in a pandemic winter weekend was like delightful. We sled all day and made snowman. And you're the streets. Were taken over by neighbors was like the perfect pandemic weekend. You'll beard saying that didn't seem to be tragic in seattle. I'm wrong study. It was like communal in a way that you don't really have this time of year in covid so we had a great weekend. Frankly did you slid down and then melted. Yeah you slid down. City streets or sledding on on a grassy hill street cio. that's funny which block was for high schoolers which was steeper versus for the little kids. Like michael different blocks different age groups that seemed based on how severe the heels were fantastic. How about you essex. Did you enjoy notice the blizzard. You know i- seattle as well You know it was. It was great. See the snow pile up. It was a weekend where i. I didn't have to work the snow. My wonderful colleagues did all the heavy work. I had twelve inches of snow on my car to finally brush us would be ready for monday morning. It was great in my neighborhood. People were cross country skiing and and it was one of those good snowstorms as karen said it melts the next day. That's exactly what we need to snow was really cozy. You know it is the most. I've seen in a single day. It was so obvious that it was the most in a single day. I went out my backyard. I have never seen the snow. That deep and measured it also Ten or twelve inches at different times or different little spots. I still have snow. Because i live at the top of the hill man other some little patches out there so yeah still having a snow thing. Yeah this is how beautiful it was. I didn't even shovel my driveway because it was the weekend. Because of the pandemic are no longer. Leave my home you know. I don't need to drive into my driveway and And you knew the rain was coming so yeah least impactful blizzard. Maybe i've ever Ever lived through they however since the signal for k. your w reaches far beyond the city limits of seattle who were truly negatively impacted by the snow and really had some hard times because of it. Thank you for that especially south puget sound area and then if you went on further south into oregon they just got hammered so yes not a not a reliably benign event. Okay let's get into the news of the week. Our first story comes from mercer island my home which extended its ban on camping in parks to camping in any public area including in your car. Mercer island has no homeless shelters so if the police find out you or sleeping illegally they would drive you to a shelter out of town. Seattle's mayor jenny. Durken did not appreciate this. I think what mercer island did was both wrong and shortsighted It's it's to be outlined. People ba basically outlined any approach for people. If you paired it with having resources and we're bringing people inside it might be different thing but just outlaw and so you gotta go somewhere else. mercer island went in the wrong direction. But i believe in redemption and i hope that we can convince them and the other cities that everybody's got a role to play in this. The king county executive dow. Constantine didn't appreciate it either. He of course would like The county to distribute its Help for homeless people and the costs more widely and joni. You think mercer island is legally on thin ice here. Yeah i think it probably is because the fact that it doesn't have shelter you know this this case out of the ninth circuit Martin versus boise says that you cannot Toss homeless folks off public property without providing alternate shelter space and you know so mercer island by trying to offer a fine of one thousand bucks. That's absurd and they don't have a plan for Really delivering shelter. Another one thing. I don't know about. This is if they could make an arrangement with the bellevue shelter. But again jenny durkan was saying as you know Mercer island is already not doing its share in the region. So it would have you know. Whoever is there. Come over to build bellevue in place in additional burden on that. And i think that this is gonna be tested in the courts for sure and I i think that they. It's maybe not gonna really hold up because that keeps pretty definite anybody disagree with them. Does have a an arrangement with other east side shelters but those arrangements can be comforted me. What if those shelters happened to be full. When mercer island wants to take someone off the island. And yes i you know. I don't understand how you find someone who's to poor to have a home a thousand dollars and i'm really curious about this threat of jail time because because of the covid pandemic king county and other jails have been trying to keep their populations to a minimum or they really going to accept someone who has picked up for just camping in apart right. Of course the pandemic's shelters more crowded than ever because they have to be spaced out. Karen any thoughts on any of this. It's i mean we've been hearing for years now about the lack of a shelter capacity in the region. So that's the legal hurdles. I'll have to prove is that there is adequate shelter capacity shelter space and so it just is asking for legal challenge. Agreed island has kind of a funny background sort of always wondering how much of an island it should be You know it is an island but you know. Are you part of the region or not you know in in in other years. They didn't want too much mass transit. They didn't want a lot of businesses that would attract people from off the island. And you know they're trying to preserve their idyllic lives. This story was trending nationally on twitter. I think because people were thinking. How do you get out of the lawsuit. How do you. How do you get away with something that many cities maybe would like to do but can't because of law. I'm sure twitter also the a a wealthy suburb like mercer island without a shelter. Driving people off the island or charging people two thousand dollars but mercer island is not the only city in this situation. You heard mayor dirk and say that she hopes king county can convince all of its cities to pay for shelters for homeless services for more affordable housing. She said maybe the state could incentivize that. She didn't say maybe the state could mandate. You can't so far force cities to do this. Anybody thinks that this threat is this. This move by mercer island. Is this typical of a threat to a countywide. Homelessness approach or. Do you think anything's going to change here. Certainly there have been other out threats of that countywide approach the city of renton objecting to a hotel being used for almost people during the pandemic the mini of the suburban cities have had a hard time even though having generally agreed to a region-wide approach when it comes down to actually doing their parts especially if that includes having homeless people in their city or or facilities for homeless people in cities then it gets tougher. Sp one little extra note. Just speaking of homelessness. I saw the city of seattle settled with a woman who sued them for removing her tent and her belongings from cal anderson park on capitol hill. The city's gonna pay her. Ten thousand dollars is that just the city saving litigation costs or. Does anybody think this is important. Is this precedent setting this policy changing or is this just a a relatively settlement. I think it's a poorly kept secret. That if you sue the city of seattle they will pay to avoid litigation costs you. Can you can win not trying to start anything here but you can. You can win. something and I think in that case they didn't want it to forgive the term snowball and become something bigger and so they wanted to pay settle. That doesn't mean she doesn't have a case. I mean she's saying you don't get your belongings back you get you get rousted etc. So i don't know how would come out if it had gone to court. I just want any. There didn't wanna go there. Yeah okay listen accident related. I thought was interesting. The seattle times had a story about it on capitol hill. Also a an apartment building that was built little studio pods that the city was able to buy convert to permanent supportive housing and it was pandemic moment where the kind of pod lifestyle was a developer Had built Kind of flip and that the market rate business was there during the pandemic moment. 'cause pods little tiny studio. Apartments are not what people were looking for. The city was able to get funding oblivious. Has sending out the county could be wrong. Don't oatmeal to buy to buy this property. Developer market rate housing. and now. they're taking what had been around for retail and turning it into qc manager offices and stuff but that was it was a hundred units or something rooms you know four walls become especially important in in a pandemic of course our next story this week. A couple of seattle neighborhoods are losing their grocery store but why q. Fcc said it will close to stores on capitol hill on fifteenth and one in wedgwood a spokesperson for their parent company. Kroger told komo tv that yes. The company is profitable right now but those two stores were underperforming and that that was made worse by seattle having this new requirement that big grocers pay their workers. Extra four dollars an hour in hazard pay we have increased business during the pandemic. And we're so creative of all the customers that continue to choose us for their food. But i'll tell you that we have invested that money right back into cover things like fresh. Ppe for every associate on every shift this city council mandate it raises our operating costs. Twenty two percent in seattle of grocery workers. Union is not buying it you. Fcw local twenty-one called it quote a transparent attempt to intimidate other local governments from passing ordinances that would provide hazard paid a front line. Grocery store workers. Here's the union's tom geiger to announce on february sixteen. Thirteen days later that they're going to close to stores seems a little too convenient time wise to me. It seems like a direct retaliation to the local community putting that hazard pay in place and profits are at record highs grocery store workers deserve hazard paid. They've been working at the front line confronting this virus since the very beginning essex. Evaluate those arguments. Well it's true that the stores have invested money in covance safety. I mean some of its visible to us. We we see when we go to the store so we see all the plexiglas That they have to help protect the cashiers. But you know. Despite those investments folks at kroger managed to get an operating profit of one hundred and eighty seven million dollars for the most recent fiscal year. It was ed thirty three percent increase from the year before so kroger has done well on. It's it's not like hazard pay hopefully will go on forever. These are people who you would presume. The companies are also grateful to to for their willingness to take risks with their health and their lives to keep the stores open. I know i certainly am grateful to them For keeping the stores open. I i do have to make a full disclosure here. My daughter works or grocery store. She does not work for the kroger stores. But i can tell you. She follows very closely up more than that twenty two percent. So i think that's what we've seen in a number of retail businesses and in some have have crashed the clothing stores or whatever but food related. Grocery things like that. You've seen these. Huge people are cooking at home and the The the margins haven't have grown more basically. It's become more profitable groceries. Not the highest margin business but it is more probable now at kroger's did also increase their dividends earlier this year to shareholders. So that's a choice. They're management made. This was the city initiative but joni. The city didn't give didn't allocate money to the workers. The city had business. Do it and you think this says something about the city council. Well i just think this is the most unfriendly business city council. That i think i've covered and i i think there's something here you know. So now we have the lawsuits and and now we have these two stores posing that. We're probably gonna close anyway. is so here's a different way to look at a different way to conduct this a different council that had like a few relationships with business would gone out in advance of doing this. I'm totally for the hazard. Pay the four dollars makes perfect sense to me. It's the least we can do for the workers but maybe we could have gone net with the grocers and figured out. Was there any other sort of mitigation. We could do so that they wouldn't call stores. The stores have valued at people these communities and so instead of turning it into the lawsuit city here the idea was maybe maybe if this council would meet with them and say what could we do what what will be your response instead of passing stuff without you know without even saying what will be the impact on the business. I think there's a different way to do this. Especially this council. Which has you know passes a lot of laws that impact businesses and. It's like so shocked that they are having a reaction to it. You can head some of the stuff off. Anybody thinks these lawsuits so again. These are a couple of industry. Grocery industry associations are suing the city of seattle. They say you're singling our business out your in our industry out. They say you are interfering in our collective bargaining with our employees. I think bureau is being sued along the same lines. Anyone have any thoughts about whether that those lawsuits are successful. We're not attorneys. But we're just watching well. They have some interesting arguments. I i don't know if they would necessarily be successful. I mean does does you know. Is there a lawsuit against a minimum wage because it interferes with the collective bargaining agreement. I wonder how then know. Argument goes if you extended a bit. Yeah maybe maybe. The minimum wage is is known in advance and taken into account as opposed to a sudden mandatory requirement. But i don't know we'll watch that happen karen wise tech tech correspondent you You don't have to give hazard pay to a robot How do amazon groceries fit into all of this now. it's near near that capitol hill. That's closing the amazon. Amazon's i go store. That is a kind of grocery like store. It it's not a full gross restored and if you've been in it it's It's it's like a large data. Or something i don't quite know it's somewhere as hybrid thing and but it is designed to have fewer employees man. That's the purpose of it You have no cashiers. Check yourself out and its staff. People stocking the shelves and stuff so one reducing labor costs and naturally you're seeing different ways employer Trying to reduce labor costs a lot of obviously cashiers in a big self-checkout target essentially. But you are also seeing at this moment not at go stores at at grocery stores. Broadly is a lot of people are paying other people to do their shopping for them. It's on the rise of online shopping. During the pandemic is essentially paying people to do the picking and stuff like that and walmart just naturally introduced a a wage increase. They're still not amazon. Does fifteen dollars. An hour minimum while walmart does not but they come up quite a bit their pay for those papers that are in the stores and warehouses picking unfulfilling these online orders. So if you see. The kind of shifting we're labor is and what kind of work doing a sharp but it's it's like a huge survey each negotiate sense. Do you know whether amazon is a is considered a grocer. You're paying this hazard. Pay the workers who are at. You know they're not. They're not cashiers at the amazon. Go but they have workers there. Do you know whether they're amazon is a grocer for hazard paper. This they certainly have more than five hundred employees in the that threshold is broadly. I don't i don't know the legislation. Nope it's five hundred three employees They have more than five hundred employees working on grocery initiatives. Probably you know. That's a huge strategic initiative for the company. Groceries are something we buy every week if not more frequently it's a huge market and it's something that they have tried to go after appearing aggressively including actually with a more standard typical type of grocery store format that the opening. There's one there's been some reporting. I think in the past week at their buying the new seasons or using the new seasons location ballard. What that new seasons back out and not in a believe in the central district another for this kind of more traditional format grocery store haven't fully wrapped up. I think we should point out the off. Sorry whole foods. obviously yes. there's hope it's here to yes. Sorry sorry guess. I don't i don't see how they are not considered right and i think we should point out that some of the other grocery chains Had like a different reaction to this they. They trader joe's took the hazard pay policy Nationwide so that they you know so that would be something that even maybe started in seattle that it that was carried out the rest in the rest of the countries of although trader. Joe's also canceled on their summer raises. It's true it's true. Bent a little sable little okay so that. That's that's grocery stores. We just talked amazon groceries later in the show. We'll talk amazon beef. When it comes to the beef that they're having not with seattle actually a A new york prime new york city beef coming up a little bit later in the program. This is week in review. And you've got joni baltar. There from seattle channel host of seattle city club civic cocktail and politics and government reporter essex porter from cairo seven karen wise writes about technology with the new york times and we are going to continue with weaken review in just a moment. Stay tuned Bill radke here happened. Some good news. Covid cases have been plunging across the country in king county and statewide. Now is it because we're being more careful or because we have some vaccines or so many people have natural immunity because they've already gotten covid and recovered or maybe we're not taking as many cova tests as we used to. In any case governor inslee says schools can now safely reopen to students even before all the teachers and school staff are vaccinated. We already have over. Two hundred thousand students who are today receiving at least some significant in person instruction and that is increasing every single day. Inslee says children don't tend to transmit covert as much as adults and. It's not just him saying this. The centers for disease control and prevention say. That schools can reopen safely. If they're using masks if they're spread out and social distancing and cleaning basically have said unequivocally that if we have strong health and safety measures returning to school. A safe thing to be able to be done. If we pay attention to some of these safety protocols does the governor joni but of course it's not up to him. These are local school board decisions governor. Although i did like the picture of him on the front of the seattle times looking like he. He attended into teaching school himself. Oh so from a little. While ago. I guess but you know the the governor can hope this can happen. He can Incentivize it which is what he said he was doing. He cannot make it happen. And so you have on. You know even in oregon which is an interesting story. Because the governor kate brown prioritized teachers for vaccines and thought that schools could open on february fifteenth and roughly eighty percent of schools are still closed and are not even thinking. They're going to end up being open until may be April now and so. It's it's very hard because the teachers unions are protecting their people and Making sure that that Folks aren't going to get sick. In every city in the world is grappling with this issue and many are doing better. We are that's for sure in fact we are something we all took for. You took for granted would be so hard to turn back on just like you always have school rioted school but wow revenue having a. We're having our difficulties turning it back. It's happening faster. Karen on the east coast and the west coast. Isn't a colleague. Had a story about this. And i it was really interesting that a lot of these big cities in the mid west to have some more in person classing classrooms and that they're they have a lot of the same issues that west coast you know. There's there's there's less demand from parents in diverse school districts to put students from the classroom polling showed that but there's diverse districts across the country. And that was treated me. I'm actually curious by joining essex. Might nobody history or something. but it's head publicized. One thing was that many of a large larger districts that are on in the east coast and the The midwest like chicago or new york mayoral control over the over the school board and And that the school districts and. We don't obviously have that here we have this. The boredom curious. Has there ever been a time where there's been a different structure demeaning in seattle or that one if you think that would even make a difference right now. It's like it's eh volunteer schoolwork and that's really with this role writing huge response. Not that i know of. I believe that we've always had a specially in the that i've been here. There have been discussions over having pratt's mayoral control in seattle of the school of the school district. But it's never really gotten very far and maybe maybe that governance matter is very much a part of the reason although i follow a little bit the difficulties in chicago. And even when the mayor said they hadn't agreement schoolteacher said no we don't have it agreement. It took another twelve fifteen hours before they said. Okay yeah we finally do. After all this fighting have an agreement. I can think of a couple mayors over the years who thought they could do. A better job with schools either threatened to or actually proposed taking over the schools but it never got very far and for whatever reason here. We really liked to have our board oversight of our schools while the state could. Well i guess i'm asking couldn't state at least mandate onsite rapid testing cova testing at every school. You know so oregon's vaccinating teachers and staff what is is washington going to if not move school staff up in the vaccine line is washington. Go to make sure. There's just testing testing. Testing testing is good but The experience of the folks in of the white river school district is they do testing but they don't consider it to be that much help in keeping the schools open. It's expensive just. You can test positive. You can test negative today positive later today. So that's part of what they do. They you know what really works for the school. Districts are the masking social distancing. We talked about schools being reopened. You think all the kids are going back to school now. That's not what happens. Some of the kids go back to school in the morning. Go in the afternoon. So i'm gonna go back to school at all depending on what the family chooses. They really have to spread out of the students so they have to spread out the instruction So the masking works social distancing works they they get the students Each parents each day to protest. They haven't been sick. They do really rapid contract tracing if if a test does turn out to be positive but the when i talk with with teachers and i spoke with yesterday even at their school district is back in there and things were kind of working out there still nervous and while the biological science says that teachers don't have to be vaccinated. You also have to work with the social science and the teachers want vaccination priority and they will continue to be reluctant until they have it because of course teachers go home. They may be living with someone who's immuno-compromised. They may have their own issues. They don't wanna bring anything home and it seems like you know they're they're thinking is that the nation priority is perhaps the least you can do while we take this additional risk and help everybody's kids go back to school so that is one thing jay inslee could do. He could definitely provide and set up and make sure. There's more testing but in all honesty i don't think this works until The teachers in the staff feel safe. They they have a lot of power here on us they. It's not gonna just be some some order. You must go back to school because you have to have buy in from the teachers and the staff were in the buildings. I know how about hazard pay. That's universally popular just talking about lawsuits minutes ago. Yes essex. the government was up your school district. Yesterday i listened in teacher spoke with him One of the things that your school district did is. They brought teachers back into the building without the kids back in july. They worked all summer on getting their protocol. Straight you're going out what they would do how things would work. Teachers were more and more confident when the kids finally came back and they again bring them back slowly and have plenty of distancing so the teachers there are feeling safer and they said so to the governor what the governor is trying to do as he visits these districts to get other teachers to see this example. Maybe even visit some of these districts personally so they can also gain confidence but again i think vaccines are hurdle. It's not necessary. Biologically the cdc says it's not a requirement it's not a necessity but the social science among teachers is different and you have to address that science as well. I was texting with one of my college roommates. Who is a pediatrician Practice affiliated with duke in north carolina and she stepped me texting working moms talking about our lives right now and she sent me a study that her colleagues at duke and unc done published in pediatrics. So the leading pediatric journal that found in north carolina. Lot of school districts actually were opened and a hundred thousand students over a nine week Were in classes and they found only thirty. Three believer was cases of of transmission in the school using contact tracing and actually none of those work to teachers were among peers largely with little kids who were not subject to the mask mandates. So i just keep thinking that a lot. It was just such as you know not. It's not zero. But it was much lower than i think. I personally had expected a cheese dealing with her patients that are kids who are struggling with all the problems of being out of school and this the fact that it was actually zero teachers interesting to meet you. It's one study but it's one in an unfortunate journal so that numbers in my head that fact that low transmissibility Among among young people is the thing that could break through earlier than we're all sort of fearing The return to school is going to be It but if you do it you know they are successful example so if you may be a take a narrow population and begin. Introducing them to the schools Again and if that works then you can move on. I then you can go step by staff and talks there's talk about bringing different populations back slowly like the disabled students and some others and if you can do that you can maybe build the confidence among among the teachers and the staff that they've hey we can go back in the building and we can. We can do this one thing. I hear from my colleagues in new york is that you know it. Because there is such. As essentially split opinion among parents about the disarming polling has shown parents are it's not exactly the fifty but it's not that far off that even went the option. You still have low attendance and so relatively low attendance Slamming class full but naturally does distance more than than you might expect and that's part of how to manage it your posture coming here. Maybe more pressure coming here on school districts governor signing really in a few minutes legislation that passes along a lot of money to school districts to help them deal with cove and safety but the governor talking yesterday that districts. That are not reopening. Probably we're not going to get the money because they're not going to need it unless they were okay okay. So there's there's the science the biological science there's the social science and then there's money another very powerful motivator okay. Well speaking of public schools. The superintendent of public schools in seattle is not running for re-election. She's leaving when her contract ends. This year denise. Juneau mayor jenny durken also leaving at the end of her turn. This year the former police chief of seattle carmen best left her job. Three of seattle's most important public leaders. All women and joni baltar. You had the good idea of getting all of them together at townhall and talking with him. What did you want to know from these leaders. And what did you find out. Well so you know. I was thinking and this is a program that i do with seattle university. The institute a public service. So i was thinking you know seattle in washington. We are we are. We set the standard for the country. we do a marvelous job of electing and appointing women to top top public jobs. So a lot of the folks thought okay. We have a national reputation for electing and appointing these people. We're good we're done. I wanted to know what happened next now. Clearly i am inspired by the fact that we one year in in seattle a very tough year for everybody. That's for sure but in that year these three women leaders who were so proud that we you know either electoral reappoint Felt they didn't want to continue in these jobs for variety of reasons. What was it about. Did it have anything to do with gender and it's not like we you know we didn't fully answer that like yeah hundred percent does it was more of an academic question but the answer is it does have something to do with gender. You say well wait a minute. We're so open to having these people in these jobs. what's that about. The question is what happens next after their elected after their appointed do we treat them differently from men and so you know just a couple of examples. I didn't know this jenny. Durkan broke this news about the superintendent that she makes she has a great salary. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with her salary. But she makes less than her male predecessor and her interim successor. Another male is also gonna make more than she does and you have well okay abe. It's such a great salary or something like that but if you think about it. And this is what she said she was so candid on this show as as were all of them. They just sort of just freed each other to talk. But she said it's a way of undervaluing Or devaluing a person in job just by. Oh we'll always get a salary us for you. Is that what the school board. But what does the school board say. How how i do. This is always a difficult question. Could like a gotcha question. It's not. I just wanna know how. How do they evaluate whether that pay. Disparity had to do gender or not a fair question. And i don't know perfect answer to it. I just think you know this. This gets into how women conduct themselves. They're terrible at negotiating. We're terrible at negotiating salaries you know guilty as charged so that could be part of it but it's also the idea that you can probably cut a deal sometimes with women for less money and it you know it just that just an indication of carmen best remember remember. When she was leaving what was going on in the city the city council was asking her to take a pay cut her command staff. She wonders and things that you wouldn't ask that of a male counterpart. I i said well during a pandemic maybe you would of of a male on police chief but i'm not sure and so one of the things we miss the other night and i. I'm sorry because these things get away from As you know Is we never. We never able to ask them. But i know they're answer because i prob- a couple of topics with them you know. Can women be sexists. Two other women ministers yes. Some of this was at the hands of the female city council for for chief best. You guys don't remember. I seem to recall when she was appointed. Chief she actually wasn't on that short-list remember there was the and there was a sets booklets. Yeah that there was a Words in how busy while humid not beyond the list in that front of quarterback in the running in that part of i remember there was reporting. That came out that said that the committee that was looking at this felt like she was to ingrain with the police department. And not a change agent. And i think that was some of the critique that ended up coming out this summer of obviously some are of immense challenge with that was some of the critique donaldson like other she wasn't a change agent internally moment that the they needed it shoes the auto that shortlist the first shortlist. You're exactly right. But i gotta say folks. Any city in the country would be thrilled to have carmen best as their police chief and she got into it with the folks here in it anyway. She's leaving or gone. gone essex. you know. It's interesting on Superintendent you know whether you're comparing her to her male predecessors superintendent. June was the superintendent of schools for an entire state came here. I don't think of her predecessors and successors have that sort of experience. I don't understand why she would be earning less. And here's one reason. Is that pay disparities. A pay a pay gatt gets imported so if someone is used to making less than that can be self perpetuating and you may not be able to. You know to have concrete evidence that there's the reason right there but but you can look at the statistics and the trends and know that that happens over and over again. Okay shall we. Should we put yes in any else joni. I want to say about what you learn from this panel already knew this part but The other thing that was sort of hard to to not of by the protests at home during the summer of seattle city council number. Deborah wars and seattle. Mayor jenny durkan. So you know. This was all about de-fund police but the language was so appalling in so centralized for both of their homes. We didn't say some of the words because then the very misogynistic terms and so we we compared it to a male council member who had the same political position as deborah warez on de-fund and they didn't say nice things outside his house but it was none of this sort of sexual kind of language and so i think i think that it it just points out some of that. Now we were doing this for our students are seattle university students. Many budding future leaders Wanted to make it sort of educational in that regard. So what i loved about. This conversation was how easily they flow. They sorta comforted each other to say things that are really personal. And you know embarrassing and and just that little burdens. they've been carrying. I just. I just didn't think it made sense for these people to go the leave and we don't hear from them about this You're listening to weaken review. That's joni baltar. Who hosted this event it to townhallseattle. She's at seattle channel hosting seattle city clubs civic cocktail. We've got cairo. Sevens essex porter new york times karen wise. And we're going to get to. What's making a smile when we come back. Stay tuned. this is bill radke. Thanks for tuning in this week. We've got essex porter joni karen wise tech correspondent at the new york times. We know that seattle's got mixed feelings about amazon and headquarters here how much it brings in jobs and taxes how much it pays in taxes or doesn't how much it drives up prices but at least amazon in seattle are not suing each other. What is happening in new york city so amazon in new york city are and new york state actually i should say are in dueling lawsuits over pandemic safety concerns at a two buildings in new york city one of warehouse in staten island. One delivery depot in queens largely focused on staten island one and they've been in discussions in talks and there's been an investigation since the spring and then amazon preemptively sued the ag state g last week saying that state eiji essentially doesn't have the authority over safety. That's a federal issue and then sure enough that agee's lawsuit that they were trying to preempt came out this week and it's just pretty messy and i think part of it is a reflection of we're used to having amazon as a major employer in the state for a long time now and they're being they're becoming major employers across the country actually acquire headed great analysis this week showing that image announced more employees in california than washington state And this is what they're on this historic hiring spree. They have more than a million employees now and they have a lot more political relationships to maintain as well separate from the specific concerns unless in this lawsuit if they are they're employing people everywhere which obviously gives you political power as art employer but it also means you have a lot more constituencies to serve this. You joni well. I think amazon is notoriously bad at local politics local and state politics. They don't seem to get it. They don't know how to work with jurisdiction in the background. Here everybody knows here in seattle. They didn't pay attention to the local seen soon enough in their in their growth year. And so they made a lot of enemies That's why they've even if they're not lawsuits. They've been fighting with the city council for a long time when they could. Do you know the sort of the government relations approach which is working well. Because they don't seem to get. And i would just say. They're messing with the wrong person. Latisha james i mean. She's the she's new. York's bob ferguson. She is very active very aggressive. She goes after tech companies. She went after trump. If amazon is not providing enough. Covid safety in these in these Warehouses in new york. I guess the courts are going to decide but it just seems to me that they they. They're so good at getting the package from from their warehouses to the to the folks out in the world but they just they have to figure out a different way to do their politics. Any ad essex little It it it is very very different. you know amazon grew up here. Many of us grew up watching amazon. Grow up and You know we're sort of the welcoming hometown. Only only in recent years only in recent years really is The area you know looking at some of the downsides and trying to determine whether amazon is is contributing enough to its fair share of helping the region row well in a way that benefits everyone so but the other thing to me is you know amazon. Held a huge competition. Among cities about were headquarters are should be And then for many of these cities really didn't get that many benefits. They're building a sort of headquarters in new york. New york didn't give them a dime so You know maybe maybe we're more valuable as a place than we've been thinking we were headquartered search what is rate for acquiring information about the city's but it didn't really improve amazon's sort of role amongst Image among cities of how it how it lands in a place that connects doesn't connect with that city. So i think we've learned something from that. That second headquarters search and you know so much of the angst about the relationship. Seattle is really about the kind of white collar. High paid work here and a lot of the relationships around the country including in new york are a lot about About this kind of a fifty dollar an hour work essentially Lawsuit obviously amazon says. they have their. They had world class safety measures in place during the pandemic in the. That's that's essentially kind of a issue. That's being contested. Was that true Does the did they meet the legal obligations in the state or state ceo over it but this is about warehouse work. It's not about the kind of angst over high. Pay affordability the crisis of the city of seattle. Seeing right now. We've got warehouses here to do. You think there's going to be any effect of here locally although not that many in the city limits not none but Yeah down the down a catholic you do. Have some of the delivery space says. I got stuck down in down in georgetown. That double decker warehouse in georgetown. There's a two story. Huge warehouse that prolonged built and. I must be an amazon delivery station because i was driving. Then all of a sudden this like fleet of vans came out surrounding us. I felt like i was a little video game like this little green warm. A sore definitely swab clearly was that time in the shift where where the vans got launched. Well it's that time in the shift for us to end on something. That's making a smile before we say goodbye. Even if you don't like a lot of rain or snow the benefit of it is that we'll have that much less to worry about when it comes to drought. So i smiled at the snow. Pack being i think it was like one hundred eighteen percent. I follow this stuff anymore So there was a smile. I also smile knowing that local space industry workers and students are smiling up at mars. Because the nasa rover landed safely there and engineers in redmond help make the aerojet thrusters that slowed that rover down as it was. Landing students at western washington did research for the design of the cameras on board. So that's always kind of cool. What was making Any any of all smile today and this week there are these two trees on twelfth avenue near seattle university. And they're not nothing to look at their kind of finley there. There's some kind of cherry. And they're kind of confused to be honest because they they always bloom in in neither earlier to mid february. And whenever i see those trees. I go okay. It's gonna be all right winter. Who leave everything will start. Blooming and spring will be here and i've noticed it's earlier in the mornings. It's it's getting lighter to the other smiles excited. We're taking my son to the burke museum this weekend. That's our third. Time's the charm. We had tickets in november just before close down again and then tickets last weekend were cancelled for the snowstorm. So this is our weekend. Just do the t rex skull. It's been a year in the making. We miss direct skull so they had a building. It's all distance feel good. Yeah they have time tickets you know and you can see. I think there were like thirty other people that have tickets for the whole time slot at we have a big museums. There's thirty people in that whole space automatically like that's not inappropriate but it will be the first time in a space like out besides like a grocery store or my son's school so the ceilings are high enough for a ceiling. Serves there s anything. You're smiling at well i i. I don't know if this is making me happy. But the end of that trump impeachment trial makes me feel like twenty twenty is finally over. Uh-huh like walking through a passageway. Whatever happens good or bad now. Twenty twenty one gets the credit going forward and what what truly is making me smile. Is i just seen reports that a couple of star trek series have just resumed shooting and canada including star trek card. And that gives me something to look forward to. I know you're big fan. Well that's great You guys always make me smile. Thanks for coming in and being. Are we review panelists week. It's great to see all essex porter reports on government politics at kiro seven joni baltar hosts seattle city clubs civic cocktail him. Seattle channel and karen wise is tech correspondent at the new york times. And hope. We'll do this again soon. Everybody thinks we can review is produced by sarah liebowitz got social media and live streaming by juan pablo chiquita. Mta popescu thanks to both of them. And thanks to sarah for her production and thank. You couldn't do without you. Thanks for listening and we'll see you again next week. This bill read again. If you like that show. I think you're gonna like another k. U. a. w. podcast called seattle now every weekday morning. Your host patricia murphy. Brings you up to speed on the news. That is shaping our city and she does it smartly brightly and she doesn't about ten minutes. I listen to every morning to start my day right and if you want to try it search for seattle now in your favorite podcast app thanks.

seattle mercer island amazon kroger seattle city essex porter king county karen wise capitol hill joni joni baltar karen mercer island Mercer island kyw Joni baltar joni ted cruz
Charmer by Jack Olsen- Part 1

True Crime: By The Book

27:54 min | 1 year ago

Charmer by Jack Olsen- Part 1

"Fill a better for me. Is Top priority mentally physically and emotionally. They all worked together talking about the things that we all may experience. But just just don't quite know how to say really opens up some new dialogue amp perspective. That's the goal here. Since you gotta see yourself a little bit better and Dan leave yourself alone because there are other people who see you for exactly who you are and Esau good we stay elevated here but even Dr. JEKYLL had a dark side. I mean who doesn't love a good story to make the hair on their own standup. I started to walk a little faster just figuring if it was probably probably someone trying to scare me like a hazing but this did it feel right night. Owl is the hang out for those horace chance looking for a little bump in the night Monday motivation Friday frights. We'd like balance here in the brain. PODCAST has it all take flight. Sleep tight please be aware that true crime by the Book May Discuss Discussed Topics Schiller opinions and use language that could be disturbing. Were expensive. The sound listeners listener discretion is advised tidings and salutations pages. Thank you for joining me on true crime by the book. Where every other Tuesday we meet up to talk real crime one page at a time? I'm your host Tash appears and first of all today. I'd like to thank hip young guy and Gen bread twelve. That'd be Lovin for their five-star reviews. The my first two. So y'all I'm really excited gay and if you'd like to help the podcast please. Head over to tools apple podcasts anywhere and drop a review. I would certainly appreciate it now today. We will be discussing charmer the true story of a ladies man and his victims by Jack. Ulsan it was narrated by Kevin Pearce. There's no relation in. He has teamed up with Olson on many of his works. His narration lands the right mix of charm gravity insincerity insincerity to the words on the page. Now Jack Ulsan is an award. Winning author of thirty three books published in fifteen countries Greece and eleven languages a former time bureau chief Olson wrote for Vanity Fair People Paris Match Reader's digest playboy life. Sports Illustrated Fortune New York Times Book Review and others his magazine Journalism Eliza appeared in thirteen anthologies also journalism has earned a national headlines Award Chicago newspaper Guild's page one award accommodations from Columbia Indiana University's. The Washington state governor's award the Scripts Howard Award and other honors. He was listed in. WHO's who in America since nineteen sixty eight and in WHO's who in the world since nineteen eighty seven the Philadelphia Inquirer described? IPM as an American treasure Olsen has been described as the dean of true crime authors by the Washington Post and the New New York Daily News and the Master of true crime by the Detroit. Free Press and Newsday publisher weekly called him. The best true crime writer writer around his studies of crime are required reading in university criminology courses and have been cited in the New York Times notable books of of the year in page one review. The Times described his work as a genuine contribution into criminology and journalism alike. Needless to say there will be more of his books featured here on the podcast before we get into the story of Charmer the good read. Synopsis Goals like this Canna Treeline community near Seattle. Young women and girls were drawn to George Russell Julia they they crowned him trust him as their protector and took him to their hearts. And why not and articulate young African American skin he was a cheerful companion flashy dancer and urban sophisticate. He had good looks professional parents. Rich France dance and a beguiling style in smile. George was a local favourite. Then body started turning up in a nightclub parking lot in quiet out of the way house in a tastefully decorated apartment. The victims attractive young females else had been bludgeoned to death violated sexually than outrageously polls like gallery sculpture. Seasoned investigators were sickened. Gained by the cold brutalities. A prosecutor described the bodies as the killers collected works of art. No one suspected George Russell. He offered the police helpful clues and even put the finger on a pal. When fresh rate at detectives ran out of leads they came close host to giving up on the case in this riveting examination into the mind in life of a vicious killer and his deceptively charming persona aw Jack Olsen treks RUSSELL SIP thirty year psychological decline which culminated in shocking killing spree? This week we're visiting Mercer Island. It situated between Seattle and Bellevue in Washington Washington state it was described as upper suburbia a place where executives and professionals put down roots. A place where poverty not means driving. Last year's Mercedes six miles of land. That was home to around twenty thousand people. UNBEKNOWNST to Mercer Island a career criminal would soon grip the community and shake it to its core. And when I got into this this book I didn't know much about George Walter Field Russell. Junior I've been a fan of true crime since I was eleven years old. When Alton Coleman tailed my hometown Gary Indiana hostage in the summer of eighty? Four in charmer. We meet Russell as a boy about the same age as I was when when I learned that monsters live amongst us. He was wise beyond his years. He would talk to anyone His conversation was so mature that it was easy to forget you were talking to a child. He was cautious as well. He'd get a person to talk. Walk and talk without disclosing much about himself. He was guarded that way. His family was among only a handful of blacks. Wchs who lived on Mercer Island. He lived with his mom Joyce a college professor his stepfather one sale a dentist and his baby. Ab Sister from the outer appearance. He seemed to have an ideal homelife but upon further investigation. We soon learn that George. George was a neglected in lonely. Boy He never had any real close friends as a youth he was more like an accessory. Kinda like those those TV shows that have a white ensemble cast and one black guy. On the periphery of the group. George was always. On the periphery in his family. He watched his mom and step. Dad a fun over Erica. His sister he didn't receive that type of attention from either of now now. His stepfather often went out of his way to point out. The George was not his son at school. He wasn't in popular. He was just there and because he was so often left to his own devices. George started to get into mischief. This wasn in Cute Dennis. The menace type stuff. Though he was prone to lie about anything often exaggerating type of family life. He thought he deserved in nineteen seventy he and two other twelve year olds broke into a neighbor's home in May toast. Okay I know that sells a little funny. I couldn't imagine coming home and actually finding the three bears in my kitchen eating toast. This could easily be mistaken as a prank drink but in reality it was premonitions of things to come that same year. He also began peeking into people's homes. He was caught by police leaf and they decided to punish him by having him do odd jobs at the police station. George soon became fascinated with law enforcement. He was interested in all aspects of fighting crime and the people who dedicated their lives to doing it. The Mercer Island the police also liked having George around and they hoped by feeding his curiosity. They could keep him out of trouble. He became a fixture around the station answering phones being a gopher and studying the intricacies of being an officer. He even began telling people that he wanted to be a cop when when he grew up he was charming and likable kid. He just needed a little supervision. Unfortunately Georgia's mom and stepfather began experiencing relationship problems and she decided to leave the home they shared. I was baffled. Would it was revealed that she took the child that she shared with her husband. But left George Behind in. Of course it was a you take them. No you take no you you take them type of deal. Of course George said she gave him the option to go with her but he refused history shows that his mom likely abandoned him. She had pawned him off on various relatives while she went to college He stayed with Linney relatives. Aunts grandmothers others basically anyone who would have them. This had to make George feel alone in the world being shipped from one household to the next after after hearing how his mother so callously left him with a man who never wanted him. I almost feel sorry for them but it seems that George didn't didn't want sympathy. He had his mind set on something else entirely now. I feel like say this every week but I can't cover the entirety of this book in just thirty minutes. This will end up being a two part episode. However let's fast forward to an adult George but it's important to note that he committed plenty of petty crimes between High School and adulthood steal it from friends breaking into lockers going to places that are just pretty much off limits to children? He did an awful lot of stuff in in those high school years and he was able to escape those brushes with the law with a slap on the wrist a week or two in jail. Maybe a month here there He wouldn't serve long and then he'd be back on the street looking for new trouble to get into. He was arrested once and when he thought that his is crime could have potentially had him looking at a lengthy prison sentence. He escaped from the jail. This was an embarrassing situation for the Mercer Island when police. There was an all out manhunt for George. Dogs helicopters a mini task force. It was incredible. The the Mercer Island police were having extreme difficulty locating a black fugitive on a white island but that was the case and he was on the run for two weeks and when George was finally captured he told one officer that he wasn't called he pretty much gave up. He could never admit that he was wrong. He could never be fooled now. This little adventure was Georgia's first felony charge and he spent ten months on ice. So so far. We've learned the Georgia's Aligarh. He was abandoned as a child and was neglected. He also shared a number of other traits. That could be an indicator of his personality type. Those are a lack of guilt empathy and deep emotional attachments governments to others narcissism and superficial charm and dishonesty manipulative manipulative nece and reckless list. Risk taking according to the Society for the scientific study of psychopathy a person with all of those traits is is likely to have antisocial personality disorder also known as being a psychopath so at one release George went it back to Mercer Island. He was a secretive manipulative. As ever kind of a street psychologist he knew who to pursue pursue in who to avoid who steal from and who he shouldn't cross he kept different groups of friends and they remained separate like he had multiple lives in a way he could never stay out of trouble but he would work off smaller transgressions by flipping a local drug dealers. He even had convinced one of his groups of acquaintances that he couldn't be arrested because he worked with the COPS. George was finding himself increasingly alone own in this period. He burned bridges with his old school France by stealing from his St France by turning fulltime snitch and the community at large large by being a known petty criminal the last resort on Mercer Island was the younger crowd. This is who he she had to latch himself onto. And this is when twenty eight year old George began running around with a group of girls who were looking forward to entering the tenth grade. Now everybody knows this type of guy. He's the only one old enough to buy beer. He brings the we'd he's the life of the party. Those guys who never grow up like a big fish in a small pond type a piece of shit well well. He began to hang out at the homes of these young girls sneaking in late in tipping out early. He will talk with them really act like he cared. He asked questions and gave advice. He knew all the kids in their circle and could gossip with them all night. They would hug and cuddle in bad together but nothing sexual ever happen on seal until one of the girls developed a crush on George She began to display the classic size of a fourteen year. Old Being Jealous and lovesick. It wasn't obvious to all the other kids but George recognize it because he's old impervious hail then he began to work on grooming this kid into a long term sexual relationship. She had recently given her life to God. So that was the hook that George us to her. In and I'll save you the lure lurid lurid details of his repeated sexual abuses of her in unusual george fashion he eventually was caught with a stolen. TV and stolen scratch off lottery lottery tickets. Because he's human garbage. That landed him a thirty day. Stay in jail. His behavior while they're extended extended his stay for seven months and while he was locked up the young lady discovered that she was pregnant she had just turned fifteen four four days earlier. She knew there was no way she could properly care for this baby so she used one hundred thirty dollars of her own babysitting earnings to have an abortion even though she endured remained in contact through letters and occasional phone calls his spell was beginning to to fade. She realized that it really was weird. That this adult man was dating her and she wanted to experience dating someone her own age. Who could be her boyfriend all the time not just late at night? She finally recognized George for the loser he was not think. Think this point in the story. I was so excited for her. That I pumped my fist. I mean it's it's unfortunate that she went through all of that but she did did come out on the other side in on May Eighteenth nineteen eighty-seven George got out of jail. She saw him a few times but her behavior savior was distant eventually. He got the hint in exited her life. Now back on the streets of Mercer Mercer Island George Hats Exist. He was sleeping parked cars. Warehouses People's Garages five weeks. After he got out he he was squatting in a warehouse. The owner called police enjoy spent five days in jail. He trespassed from most of the businesses in the area. A Denny's for stealing tips gas stations for you know. Scratch offs in anything. You could pretty much pick up and take out And other stores in the area he was essentially ostracize. He's still kept a group of younger friends who he could manipulate into allowing him crash at their places until they kicked him out usually for stealing. He couch surfed until his penchant. For borrowing things reared reared its head than out he went. He didn't have a pot to Pissy in or a window to throw it out of so. He picked up his bag and moved on to Bellevue. In Bellevue he was known to frequent a nightspot called the black angus. He would post up at a booth close close to the DJ. Buy Drinks and dance the night away. He continued to keep details about his life. Vera secret as he got to no the other regulars in the establishment and George was a reasonably attractive guy and he would flirt and be flirted with He. He had absolutely no love for black girls though he would hardly interact with any black women any black people period but especially black women. And it's not hard to imagine why I tend to think they reminded him too much of his mother and most of the time. He kept his encounters with the women. He met at Black Angus confined to the nightclub and then he met a young lady named Mindy. Charlie Mendi was a young divorce. Say she married her high school sweetheart at seventeen years old and by the time she was twenty he had up and left and one year later in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight. She was involved with an quote. Aspiring arena actor named Chris who turned out to be a jealous abusive and an alcoholic and after a huge blow. UP ON CHRISTMAS Eve Steve. He destroyed her six foot aluminum Christmas tree. She finally had had it with him. You can be an asshole all year rail but you don't ruin Christmas. She bought him a ticket to La and sent him packing in that relationship and total cost at her five thousand thousand dollars then. In the summer of nineteen eighty nine she met George in the Black Angus. This pretty naive invulnerable girl was just his type now that street psychologist and George picked up on the unconscious signals. That Mindy Andy was sending and before long he had effectively swept her off her feet. They started off dating before long. He was spending nights cooking dinner and make him breakfast in bed. He was surprised her with gifts and he kept her home spotless. She was so taken. She didn't even realize realized when George had moved in but he paid his portion of the rent on time for tied for time he was a perfect boyfriend. Oy friend until he wasn't that beside couldn't last forever before she knew what happened. He had morphed into a controlling manipulative monster. He was emotionally abusive secretive and selfish George had picked up on her insecurities insecurities in weaponize them against her. There was a constant hot and cold with him. He would ignore her for days on end and then suddenly start communicating again in a classic love bomb. He would borrow her car for hours on end leaving her to wonder where he was. He told her that he was an undercover narcotics officer. But he never had money She would occasionally find trinkets jewelry and whatnot around her apartment and he was snatched up and say that's police evidence. He choked her after one. Argument punched her after another. She was finally seeing him for who he truly was. This George was the one who strong armed children out of their possessions. Who could steal from the people he called friends and who would ruin another Christmas for Mindy? That's right Christmas was Mendis favorite holiday. She confided in him the terrible things that Chris the ex head done on Christmas. Nineteen eighty eight and this piece of crap. The exact same thing to her for Christmas. Nineteen eighty nine. When she dared questioned him he picked up her aluminum? Christmas tree Spirited at her after the shock wore off mindy sat in a heap and began to pick up the shattered shattered pieces in l. talking about this because she was so classically abused while scripting. This I witnessed an act of domestic violence. I heard yells so I looked up and this young man had tackled a young lady eighty and began pummeling her like she wasn't opposing quarterback. I didn't have my phone on the balcony with me but I leaped up and I said hey he saw me and he ran now this young lady one of the twenty four people per minute who are victims of domestic violence in the united. It states that being said I've been one of the twenty four myself. Please please realize that you are worth so much more than this kind of treatment. In if you've been a victim of domestic abuse in our need of help please call the national national snow domestic abuse hotline at one eight hundred seven nine nine seven two three three or visit hotline Dot Org doc in. That's here in the states. Please please hear me on how serious I am about that because like I said one day maybe maybe altel share my story of Being a domestic abuse survivor but nobody deserves to be treated the way this young lady plated out witness being treated poorly in a way mindy was treated where the emotional and physical abuse now. There had been a rash of burglaries in Mendis neighborhood. The perpetrator broke in and stole small. Items of little value. The Mercer Island police notice that the burglaries on the island has slowed down tremendously. They also knew the George would occur occasionally Asia Lee slippy in it commit a crime just to keep them on their toes. He George really wasn't in it for the spoils. He was in it for the sport the feeling that he could enter. Someone's home while they were sleeping. Rummage through their belongings and essentially hold their lives in his hands. He could kill them while they slept. He wondered if his victims ever thought about that. It was through his own benevolence the they were still alive. Others wouldn't be so lucky. I believe I'm going to stop here with Jack. Olson's it's the charmer but fear. Not There will be a second episode to conclude this story and in fact the second episode will be available. Oh next week Tuesday so I hope you all Join me for part two so instead of going every other week I will have at episode next week and the week after that. So you're getting quite a bit of true crime by the book but I think I'm ready to to give you a little bit more especially because this is a two part episode. Nobody wants to wait two weeks for the second part. And that's why so as long as you join me for part part two and bring along a friend. Everything is everything. And if you have feedback comments or book suggestions out direct you to my email email. It's TC by TB at she mail dot Com. Please subscribe to true crime by the book on Stitcher spotify spotify Google podcast and many other pod catchers I would also appreciate ratings and reviews on your platform of choice. Thank you thank you. Thank you for listening and Asta until next week. Later Book Worms uh-huh.

George Mercer Island George Russell The Times George She Olson Mindy Andy George Russell Julia officer George Walter Field Russell Jack COPS Seattle France Bellevue Mercer Mercer Island Georgia apple Esau
Learning from Covid-19 case numbers

KUOW Newsroom

04:22 min | 9 months ago

Learning from Covid-19 case numbers

"While we're dealing with wildfires and smoke the other threaten our lives continues the number of covid nineteen cases has come back down following a surge in August, and now the figures are low enough that some school districts are considering a return to in-person learning. But what really is low enough do Malam grim joined Seattle? Now's Patricia Murphy to put everything in perspective. She's an epidemiologist and breast cancer researcher at the University of Washington. I would not be popping a cork on a bottle of champagne. Okay. Over the fifty five for one, hundred, thousand that we have today in King County. What we wanted was twenty five per one, hundred, thousand, the number the way that the trajectory is going things are really working well. And we could conceivably, I would really like us to get to twenty five for one, hundred, thousand I'd like to get us below twenty five per one, hundred, thousand. We can't really lose sight of that goal and go. Okay. Well, let's just open up again because what happened with things to clearly when we opened up. All, the numbers went up again. We need to learn from. From the recent past, I'm not talking way back I'm just talking going back a couple of months. Let's learn from that experience when we went to as to what went wrong. Why we didn't have contact tracing and we didn't have testing and I would say we still are having problems. We are having outbreaks. There were thirteen and one week in snohomish county. and. They were at a bar three were at childcare centers to our on construction sites. Floor of the outbreaks where long term care facilities which are supposed to have protocols in place. To were in restaurants and one was at a shelter. Yeah. What makes you nervous? Are you nervous about how people are reacting? People always make me nervous. People's behavior makes me nervous but the thing that concerns me the most right now is. All of a sudden jumping that we're GONNA open school. There's no indication at fifty five per one hundred, thousand that there's any decline in children's rate of coronavirus infection yet mercer island and shoreline schools have both been talking about a hybrid learning model maybe in the next few weeks even does this seem like a good idea now? Doesn't I'm sorry it's complicated and look at how hospital operate. I go from meeting and I'm checked at the door you get a temperature check you get a list of symptom check and then you get a sticker that says I've been checked today can sanitizer mandatory and you put your mask on if you didn't already have when they give you one. So is. Going to. Be set up that. Way. It's possible. But they have to have everything set up more importantly, they have to figure out what their liability is. If a kid get sick. How are they gonNA Corinthian? That kid? How many kids are they gonNa Quarantine? Do they have a telephone trade contact everybody? Immediately, they can't wait for the state that takes twenty four to forty eight hours for contact tracing all those kids need to be notified right now what do you do with the child that they're at school and they get sick all the contingencies that can happen with a corona virus infection and the fallout from a single case in a group setting has to be put together. It's very complicated. WanNa see in the next few weeks. What would make you feel like we're on the right track. Like to see the numbers continue to go down. I was like it if we would wait on popping the cork on that Champagne until we got to twenty five, again I mean if we can go from one hundred or from two hundred, fifty five, we can get down to twenty five again and that would mean a lot of people are taking care. And being respectful we've had some time it's not likely didn't know. This was. All I know. But isn't this isn't this. So the way over land of wishful thinkers.

Patricia Murphy Seattle King County University of Washington Malam Champagne mercer island snohomish county. forty eight hours one week
UW Greek Row Covid-19 outbreak driving spike in NE Seattle

KUOW Newsroom

00:56 sec | 9 months ago

UW Greek Row Covid-19 outbreak driving spike in NE Seattle

"A Crow Virus On the University of Washington's Greek row is driving a spike in case numbers in northeast. Seattle ws Eilly Chenille has more just a month ago northeast Seattle neighborhoods like the District Laurel, hearst and Wedgwood. At case count similar to the rest of this city. The whole area had only nine positive test results in the last two weeks of August, a rate of twelve per one hundred, thousand residents. Now, the rate is fourteen times that with one hundred, seventy cases per one hundred, thousand residents over the past two weeks and counting. More. Than One hundred, fifty cases on Greek row are driving the outbreak. It hasn't spread to nearby neighborhoods yet. As for the rest of King County case numbers in south King County remain high with hundreds of new cases in Auburn Kent over the past two weeks. Bellevue Mercer Island in Kirkland. Still have low case numbers IV Chenille K. U. A. W. News.

King County Seattle Bellevue Mercer Island District Laurel University of Washington Kirkland Auburn Kent two weeks
Pandemic motherhood's primal scream

Seattle Now

12:57 min | 4 months ago

Pandemic motherhood's primal scream

"Support comes from be. Ecu member owned credit union putting people over profit offering financial services and support to the community with access to local financial centers over thirty thousand atm's and online resources at b e c u dot. Org that early insured by ncua. Hey it's handle in for patricia murphy. It's thursday this is seattle now. If you could call a number and leave a message about how hard this pandemic has been. What would sound like. I just wanted to say we'll hear a few more examples from the new york times primal. Scream line with editor at large jessica bennett. But first let's get you caught up. Seattle firefighter is under arrest for using co-worker email account to send threatening messages to city council. Member shamma sawant the seattle times reports. That finn. Seth faces charges of cyber stalking and identity theft. Police investigators say fins off. Who was seattle's firefighter of the year. In two thousand eighteen admitted to sending six messages from his co workers account as part of a plan to get transferred out of the station and punished by fire department brass. Vince is on paid administrative. Leave and faces department investigation. He's due in court. March third mercer island might have a hard time enforcing its new ban on camping on public property that set to take effect next month. City officials say it's meant to ensure un housed people you shelters and other resources instead of camping. Outside or sleeping in their cars violations could lead two thousand dollar fine and ninety days in jail but there currently aren't any shelters on mercer island and other eastside shelters have lost beds in the pandemic and that means the ban could run up against a twenty eighteen federal court ruling that says enforcing this kind of when there is no. Alternatives available is unconstitutional. And congratulations to the l. Pod of southern resident killer. Whales researchers spotted a newborn orca calf swimming off san juan island. Yesterday they say. The calf was born to a thirty year old female known as el eighty six or surprise. That's l eighty sixes name surprise. Young orcas often have a tough time surviving pass their first birthday surprises. Last half died in two thousand fourteen but the center for whale research says the new calf looks healthy. All i hear all the live long day my mom my mom mom mom mom mom mom mom mom mom mom mom mom mom mom okay. Let's talk about that laugh for a second so that lasts sounds like a laugh of utter disbelief that this has been your real life for the last year with no end in sight. No end to the constant tension of something else always demanding your focus and your energy no end to that desire to throttle anyone who seriously talks about work life balance or finding more time for yourself. This pandemic has not been easy on any of us but moms have borne the brunt of it women particularly women of color saw the biggest job losses over the last year and a big contributing factor to that was lack of childcare. More mom's report being the primary caregiver in their homes than dads and moms report getting physically sick from stress. And worry than dad's. All of this information led jessica to open the primal screen line jessica's editor at large at the new york times. And the primal scream. Line is a phone number where you can call invent or laugh or cry or scream about the parental pressure cooker. So many of us are living in high jessica. Hi nice to be here. I'm really glad you're here. So what kind of responses did you get on the primal scream phone line. I mean we heard somebody go just now but did people literally screen. Yes so we got hundreds of responses and we categorize go into different areas. There were a lot of literally screams came. There were people who locked themselves into closets for sixty seconds of peace and just kind of ranted. There's just so much talking talking all the time all day. Long words words words. There were some women who sang songs. One together favorite was this launched. The line launched early december so right before the holidays so a woman sang jingle bells but replaced every word of the song with the f. Word and you know everything you could imagine. I'm sure many listeners would be happy to share their thoughts into a streamline and they can we should also point out that the primal scream is more than just a phone line right. It's also a whole collection of articles on everything from workplace rights for parents to the mental health crisis. Many moms are facing right now and in the piece that you wrote you followed three different moms around the country for months. One of them lives. Half hill is a single mom who lives in spokane. And here's one of the pieces of audio. She sent you sunday's feel like they're so busy they feel like they don't even exist. I just went through twenty four hours. And i don't even remember any of it because i was just go. Go move move. Move on a go. Watch the new netflix. Show nurse ratchet or whatever that really resonates as a working mother myself. What struck you about loses experience. Well the things that i think this pandemic has really exposed is just how many parents moms dads. However they identify rely on the school system for care you have so many people are in this boat. And if you are a single mother like liz and you suddenly do not have school and you don't have childcare and you can't afford a nanny and you don't feel comfortable sending your kids say the boys and girls club because of possible transmission and you are not essential worker but your boss requires you to show up in person to your job. What do you do. You are left completely in an impossible position deciding whether you know you leave your ten year old home on. He's almost eleven. He is almost at the age where he can stay home alone but not quite or do not show up to work. Do you tell your boss that you simply have to work from home and does that threaten your job and so this has put many people in many women. In particular in in really impossible situations could morning it is seven twenty five in the morning We have to leave in forty minutes on drinking coffee and making max bagel update. I have burned the bagel. I have to ask though. Jessica i mean you have been looking at sexism in the us workplace for years. You even wrote a book about it re surprised by the fact that this pandemic kind of laid bare all of the extra pressures that women experience you know. We thought about that a lot as we were working on this project. Because we're there are many people. I think who hope this would be sort of a galvanizing moment for moms for people who support moms to say like. This is enough like we need support. We need structural support. We need institutional support. We're not getting it. But like you said janey everyone is so freaking tired and or angry at the end of the day like who has time like organizer like figure out how to chance. Hollis but i think we have also realized that you know you can't get to work without driving across roads and bridges and there is physical infrastructure to get you there will. How on earth are you supposed to work without. Childcare is another kind of infrastructure. That is critical jessica. I'm wondering in all of the research that you did. All of the of audio you heard from parents who called into the primal scream line. Was there anything that particularly surprised you that you learned about how this pandemic is hitting parents and moms in particular. I'm sure it was surprised so much because these are things that have been bubbling up for years. But i think the level of hopelessness in a lot of cases this. We opened the line in december. It is now february. Vaccines are on the horizon. It feels like things are moving toward a better place but back then people didn't know when school was going to begin again and it was just endless home with kids doing the parenting managing all the noises in the background. You know one of the women. I documented as part of this. She has an autistic daughter and a new puppy and another daughter and just the amount of multitasking is going on in her day today. Today's multitasking exercise in bonds. Me working being ceelo being in the car with london is out with where she would literally have one year airbud in one ear listening on her work conference call. She works fulltime at a bank and in her left ear listening to her daughters schooling. Her daughter has non verbal autism so she cannot speak herself so than listening to the teacher. Who'd be calling on the daughter and then helping her type into her touch pat answers to the questions while then on her in other earphone her boss will be like deke. What do you think. And then the puppy barking in the background. It was just madness. I just like to any like an hour. Silence to get some work done. God jessica my spouse and i have talked more than once about the fact that were actually relieved at this point that we only have one child and i'm wondering whether seeing what's been happening with pandemic has affected your thinking about whether to have kids. I'm very much at the age. Where like i gotta figure this out real quick Embassy in sort of a joke for my husband. And i as i've been following me as three mothers in different locations for the six months and i should specify following. I couldn't physically be with them because of the pandemic so we set up this really intricate system part of which is why we have so much audio from them where they would keep time diaries of their days obviously last they wanted to do was another project time diaries. So yes we were trying to make it as least burdensome as possible but we were in constant contact and you know i would say like oh my god. How are they doing. Like i just have so much respect for people that are doing this and frankly i don't know if i could have reported out the piece had i also had children at home and was multitasking myself. So i think that it. It has made me realize that this isn't the way it should be. And hopefully this is not the way it will be forever because certainly this is not the environment that anyone in their right mind wants to bring a child often. Jessica bennett is editor at large at the new york times. Jessica can you give the number for the primal scream line for anyone who might need it yes. I'm holidays it's near number but if two one two five five six three eight years zero you'll hear my voice on the other end Encouraging you to do whatever you need to do you have a solid minute. Like go wild. Hope this a little bit of catharsis jessica. Thanks so much for talking with us. Thanks for having me. Hi recording. I will explain to you a little bit. I'm recording one. More thing for work. Okay okay all right. Seattle now is produced by caroline. Chamberlain gomez claire mcgrane and jason pagano. Orbison does our music. I'm jeannie yandle see you tomorrow.

jessica Jessica bennett patricia murphy shamma sawant seattle times Young orcas center for whale research the new york times seattle ncua mercer island mercer island san juan island Ecu finn max bagel Seth Vince city council
Seattle Times 'Lives Remembered' series honors people we lost to COVID-19

KUOW Newsroom

05:06 min | 4 months ago

Seattle Times 'Lives Remembered' series honors people we lost to COVID-19

"This is k. u. o. w. I'm ken malcolm. We're approaching the one year mark. Since the first covid nineteen deaths occurred in the united states over four hundred thousand people have died nationwide so far from the virus. at least forty. Three hundred of those deaths have occurred in washington state. the seattle times has been marking. Some of those lives lost in their series called lives remembered times staff reporter page. Cornwell has been compiling and stories for the series and she joins us now to share some of her experiences page. Thanks for joining us and giving me first full. Please let me just say. This series is beautifully done. You really get a sense of each of the lives of so many people who were lost. Are there any any seems that. Stand out for you as you've been working your way through this in the beginning when we were compiling obituaries. It was often for older people with a compromise. Health issues often nursing home residents as it went on there were younger and healthier people who were dying. There were people from all over the state from all walks of life so it really struck me as there was never one specific theme. It was so many different people from so many different walks of life such far reaching impacts for so many of us. Is there one story. One person that stands out for. You is part of the project. I have compiled pretty much every obituary every namely have but i would fortunate to write a few myself so i wrote one about david vile. He was a navy veteran and he had lived on mercer island. He had been deployed in art to cope with operation deep freeze to recover two planes that had crashed in extremely remote area and he spent months with team with near the crash site with freezing temperatures at repairing the planes that had been flown directly off the ice shields so they actually named a wheat after him filed point and he didn't realize it for years and years until finally someone said oh. I think it's grand pie is a point named after you and then later that it had been named after him page. It's tough to lose anyone. Of course it. It's sometimes though it's it's particularly hard to lose someone who is younger. There's one young woman in particular. I think who you wrote about. Yes in our list. we included a marsh. She lived in eastern washington and she passed away suddenly in july. She and her fiance were nearing the end of their quarantine when she began to experience difficulty breathing and then went unconscious. The next day she had had only mild symptoms but unfortunately died that day she was twenty five years old and was busy planning her wedding and her family members said losing her to this illness preparing to bury her was not something we could have ever imagined page. It gets heavy pretty quickly even though we see the beauty and a lot of these lives but are there some stories that made you smile or made you laugh too where i came across bits jewelry for thomas edwin do par senior He sounded like quite a character. He was married four times and in the obituary. It a red that when people asked how he remembered the anniversary date he replied that he got married on the same date of the year. So freaked once. Let's he remembered his last words to the attending nurses staff were. Why is this taking so dan. He also mentioned he was survived by several children and then they put in parentheses that we know of and it said his memorial service day is pending but in lieu of flowers. Ray the glass of cheap cheap scotch two fingers measured with your pinky and index. Indeed we raise our glasses to you mr deeper into everybody who have lost when it comes to. This lives remembered project around people who have lost a covid nineteen. I'm curious how working on it may have affected. you personally. has it made you think differently about the pandemic. the thing that strikes me most is the sheer numbers of seattle. Times knows of about only an eighth of the total deaths in washington for their names so for everyday we know there are so many more that we don't now. I think so often of how many people died alone and how so many loved ones were left to grieve alone. I thought specifically of one woman's obituary. She said that she didn't wanna funeral. Because she wouldn't wish this virus on anyone else. Page cornwell is seattle times staff reporter and contributor to the lives remembered. Covid nineteen obituary series. Page thank you for your work and thank you for this. Thank you so much.

ken malcolm david vile the seattle times Cornwell washington mercer island thomas edwin united states navy times dan seattle Page cornwell
The Dog Whisperer

Scene Of the Crime

1:03:38 hr | 5 months ago

The Dog Whisperer

"A quick word before we jump in this is an ongoing investigation and the opinions of the hosts and interviewees are opinions not facts. Everyone is presumed innocent. Unless proven otherwise in a court of law man's best friend a phrase coined to describe the loyalty love and companionship of a dog nurturing. This unconditional love is a staple in seattle so many different breeds temperaments to strike your fancy and for the lucky which included an a list of local celebrities. You could hire marc stover seattle zone dog whisperer to train your beloved pet. If only communicating with humans came as easily to mark. Maybe he wouldn't have had to go through such a messy ugly divorce that rocked him to his knees. The source of this angst as former wife. Linda updike she was beautiful tall. Lean with glossy blonde hair. And she was an heiress. They built island. Canine training together on her family's private island in puget sound before it was said and done. Linda accused market being able to let go of being a gun. Toting emotionally stalker. The lowest point came when mark was caught rifling through her age. He was arrested for stalking and slapped with a domestic violence protection order through it. All dingo or ding marks trustee belgian mallon wa was by mark side. They went everywhere together. Not only was doing his best friend. She was his protection and by october. Two thousand nine mark had moved on he had no contact with lyndon even had a new love in his life and was settling nicely into a new location for his dog business but despite all the progress those closest to mark knew he had worries like a dog with a keen sense of smell and intuition marquis fearful anxious some say afraid of his own shadow he even hired a private investigator and shared with her the source of his terror that his ex wife and her powerful father were out to destroy him. When markers told me. I did think that he was a little histrionic. That quickly changed. Of course one. Michael oakes was arrested and fact marcus. Right michael oakes. He was linda's boyfriend on that chris october morning. When marks worst fears would come to pass was a wednesday and like clockwork mark was off to meet with his clients. Usually he drove his bmw when he made the trek to seattle so it was strange that morning when employees saw his white station wagon tearing down the gravel driveway. His tires spitting out rocks as he flew by. Mark was wearing his signature hat and jacket but it was strange that he didn't even wave. Hello and there were other oddities that raised hackles that south. Where did the blood in the driveway. Come from why did the house rica bleach and why were there. What spots on the carpet tinged with red mark never did come back that day but they found his beloved bloody growling rave -ly injured with three bullets in her brain where was mark and who pulled the trigger. I'm carolina massaro with kim shepard. And this is the crime. Me me me me me. But also you the payroll fast forwards favorite born film or not. Okay what's my line. The only line. I see here on the script. His options based on your budget with the name your price tool from progressive man. That's a tongue twister. I'm sorry i'm gonna need a few more minutes booed this wall risk. The bulbous will risk the name. Your price tool only from progressive. The our nfl of the comatose coxswain risk insurance company and affiliates price and coverage match limited by state law. Do it yourself doesn't have to mean all by yourself. Help is as close as homedepot dot com slash workshops now at three. Diy livestream workshops. Live hands on courses from real expert associates. Learn how to install. Floor tile created tile back splash replace it thermostat and more all from the best seat in the house yours to register go to home. Depot dot com slash workshops only from the home depot. How do we get more. I just love how you described seattle as such a dog friendly place. I mean as someone who's lived in in a few other states. It definitely feels different here. I mean i've lived in southern california in colorado in arizona and dogs were loved. I mean people all over the country love their dogs but there has nowhere a city that loves their dogs as much as so. You're in your home here. We know you know if you haven't guessed yet. Kim is a dog lover. And might i add. You have the best dogs when we've gone hiking dogs. I have one. That's a little terror. But she loves me. So of course i to me and won't come to anybody else but you know dogs can be very finicky. That's for sure so kim. There's not a lot of back story on marks early life but from go skagit dot com. I was able to weave together a bit of his early life. Theodore mark stover grew up on mercer island a wealthy suburb of seattle with his mom and sister. His dad died when he was two and his mom worked at a furniture store in downtown seattle and was said to have remarried multiple times but a north star and marks. Young life was his beloved german shepherd. Greta and greta died when mark was just eighteen so sad. I had a dog that was really really close to we. Had maybe six or seven years and we knew when we got her she was a special needs dog. She had a medical condition so we knew we probably wouldn't have her for too long but it was still incredibly hard when she finally passed away and actually tried to go to work the following day and had to leave. Because i couldn't stop crying. It's really hard to explain. Unless you've lost a beloved pet like that. How deeply that hurts. I mean it really is like losing a family member. Yeah i mean growing up. We did have a dog but for me with my kids. The largest longest animal that we had was our cat. Duncan and i think i mentioned on a previous episode raccoon live racket. That's right those raccoons. I've never seen raccoons the same sense. Now but win is the same thing and he was like a dog. I mean he was his name. Is duncan and duncan. He was literally like a dog in our family wept for him. So i can only imagine with the closeness. It's different with the dog from what i've heard. I've never had that bond with a dog. They actually love you more than you love them with cats. I think it's the other way around. I think you're right. So who knows if the loss of his loved greta. The german shepherd influenced mark's decision to drop out of high school when he was in the tenth grade but a friend would later describe him. As sort of a wild teen who loved to read was into history in politics. He joined the merchant marines and got a second german shepherd and that relationship really solidified his life's work at the tender age of eighteen. He began to breed and train. German shepherds. German shepherds are such a great breed of dog. I mean we my step mom had one and he was the best the best dog ever slowly but surely mark began to build a loyal clientele and his reputation began to grow. As mark built his business. He also went back to school. To get a psychology degree from the u. dub in nineteen seventy six and. He believed that that education would help with his dog training. It's really interesting that you bring that up because actually just last week. I met someone who is a dog trainer and so of course i had to pick her brain on dogs little quirks but one of the interesting thing she told me about was that often when she goes out to deal with the situation she i has to figure out. Is it an issue that the dog has or is it an issue that the people have because sometimes the dog is just being dog but whatever behavior they're doing whether it's barking or digging or pulling on the leash or whatever they're just being a dog but it's annoying the humans and so you have to figure out how to help the humans deal with that behavior whether or not the behavior ever goes away and i think that's where mark really was able to be that bridge because a lot of people because of their lives they can't spend tons and tons. I mean to make a really quality dog to give them that training that you know guidance that discipline it takes a lot of time and energy so someone like mark can really step in and just be like this is. This is what you need to do and help you get to that process to have that beloved pet. so according to a nineteen seventy-nine piece in the mercer island reporter. His longtime friend referred to him as guarded though quote chameleon like stover changes his approach dress even his mode of transportation dependent upon his mood and the situation at hand he has spoken on every subject except his own closely guarded. Personal life bark was well beloved after his death. I mean several of his longtime friends people who had known him in high school and boy. That was a group of guys who just would have done anything for mark. Who loved him. Foibles all quirkiness and all they just south the world of him. So that's leeann. She's the owner of leeann investigation services. And although she would meet mark later in his life he would hire her two months before his death. She certainly had a front row seat on what would happen to him in his final days. But let's get back to his early life as a dog trainer as he built this. This amazing business. Over the next three decades he honed his craft and began training protection. Police dogs and that connection and expertise led to him being sought as an expert witness to testify about dog behavior in court. Mark was just was known. The dog whisper. it was skilled at. He had honed on his own starting in high school. And he obviously had a a real gift for communicating and working with canines. And i think that as his reputation grew he just became much more in demand the local celebrities who perhaps didn't have time to train their dog but but new the news that they could count on mark to help them turn their animal onto a beloved path. so some of mark's clients would include eddie vedder from pearl jam nirvana bassist. Chris nova celik sound gardens. Chris cornell and moviemaker cameron crowe and his wife. Nancy wilson of heart. So i mean he. Just you know we're naming all of our listeners. Here in seattle ichi row from the mariners thing is you know dogs are said to resemble their owners often right so i had to go. Look what dogs. He's folks had So i couldn't find all of them like chris cornell from soundgarden he has a white german shepherd named polo beautiful dog. Very beautiful dog. Looks like a probably a full bred. Ichi row the baseball player. He has an eighteen dog named e. q. And he actually thanked tim when he was inducted into the baseball hall of fame. He said i have to thank my dog and it was so cute. It's a shiba inu. Which is a really classic japanese breed. They're known for being really smart. They look sort of like a little foxy tight. Breed somewhat standoffish. Actually know somebody who has a shiba inu and not the brightest going to be honest kind of dumb ditsy dog but super cute super energetic super sweet and each euro said was that his dog was like an inspiration because he was eighteen years old and he still has tons of fire and energy and it just made him think you know if he can do this and his old age soaking. Oh i love that. That is so cool. So in nineteen ninety-one mark was interviewed for the seattle times and he said quote. I had a dream. And i went for it and i wasn't going to let anyone tell me what to do. So not only a great dog trainer but he was a visionary what he wanted to do and nineteen. Ninety-one was a banner year for mark in other ways. That was the year he met linda updike. They were interesting match though. Linda was six feet. Tall and mark was five eight and twelve years older. She was beautiful as i mentioned in the scene centre long blond hair slim build and she was rich. Her father wally updike was one of the founders of washington's biggest winery chateau michelle but what really solidified. Their connection was their love of animals and the outdoors in nineteen ninety. Two nd up island dog adventures conveniently on the island of her wealthy family. That was a private island. Fifty five miles north of seattle. It was the ideal playground for pooches filled with old growth trees and picturesque shoreline. That was alive with sea life mark trained and took care of the dogs and linda round the business. And i have to just tell you because in a piece in the puget sound business journal already sound. you've already got me with private island Like a dog nirvana it. It also sounds like a human nevada because quote for forty five dollars a day. Dogs get out three times daily. For exercise time running on trails getting beach time to swim in place plus pedicures grooming and detailed attention do any special dietary needs one. Man insists that his dogs get a sardine with every meal and other dog gets five owns a day with meals. I mean this just sounds like odd day. Well it is seattle right. We have high expectations for how our dogs will be treated. Yes so in. Two thousand and two mark and linda got married but a couple of years into the marriage. Something soured employees. Who worked on the island notice that linda got into horse racing and was away from home for stretches at a time and it's ironic because many people try to steer away from talking about politics at work. Mark was all in with that when he talked with his clients and he loved bantering about history and of course dogs. The one topic that mark always stayed away from was his own personal life. So i mean. I i get that. But it's like he was so open and kind of gruff and just like i you know and really had a lot if you're gonna talk about your politics but not your personal life seems like touchier topic rate. Nobody can really have too much of an opinion on your personal life. If they don't know you that well you can do whatever you want. But when it comes to politics i mean that is just such a hot topic. Yeah if he felt comfortable talking about that why wouldn't they talk about everything else. Yeah so in. September of two thousand five. Linda moved out of the main residence and into the guest house at the island and she would later say that she did this in the hopes that they could possibly fix something and that mark might understand the gravity of the situation and work further on the relationship and that did not happen and so in two thousand six. She told mark that she wanted a divorce and the reason according to linda was that quote he wasn't getting help on his anger enrages and the problems. We were having our personal relationship. And so i decided it was time for me to go. So i mean of course divorces are messy but in this case it would become downright twisted and of course there are always two sides to story and so for the purposes of this story right now. I wanna talk about linda side. I linda moved to winthrop washington which is five hours away from kickoff island and according to linda in the spring of two thousand seven she reached out to mark asking if he wanted any wedding items specifically to wedding albums and a candle. Linda said that he didn't want them and she threw the candle and a framed wedding photograph away in a dumpster but she said she took the wedding photos because she wanted to be able to go through them and see if any photos of friends or families that she wanted out of them. Before disposing of them. Linda said the act of throwing away. The stuff triggered mark and there was contention over the business as well. Okay this is the first place where i questioned her story. Only because if if she gave him the opportunity to have the photos and he said no why would it be triggering for her to throw them away. Yeah i mean this was taken from the court documents and so there's an i added here because although it's like what who care you know i don't feel like i would be fighting over the wedding pictures and we'll or you cared then. You should have taken the when she offered. Yeah so but they do play a huge part in the future narrative but there were other you know so there was this wedding stuff and there was contention over the business as well for her parents remember. They own that island oasis for pets and and he was going to have to move. So it's like not only is he getting this divorced. They built this business together. Like could just move down the street and this is an island and this is a a an oasis. This is like the best place and they built the business together. I mean i'm sure it would just really rocked him to his core in may of two thousand seven mark packed up and moved the business to a temporary home anna quarters. That's twenty minutes away from the island and according to linda she officially filed for divorce and claimed his response when he found out was to drive eighteen hours straight from fishing trip in montana to her house and winthrop to tell her he could not let the marriage go. According to linda he arrived very distraught. An emotional on his knees next to her bedside and he had a pistol in his hand and laid it on the pillow next to her head and she tried calming him down and He i guess he finally did settle down after a few hours. He left when she asked him to so. Linda says things continue to spry role to the point where she was afraid for her life. That mark kept demanding those wedding photos and that he harassed and stalked her. She said he would show up inside her home a number of times and invited and told police that he had exposed himself on another occasion. He allegedly hid in the bushes At her home pointed a gun to her head and and watched as she got out of the shower so she changed the locks and installed a pretty heavy duty security surveillance system and was armed to the teeth. I've watched interviews with her and she seems very convincing that she was fearful for her life Which is odd that she would then pour salt on the wound by sleeping with mark's best friend. Yeah i mean so i could see both sides to this because on the one hand yet. It's his best friend. You're in this nasty divorce. And if you want to distance yourself from mark obviously sleeping with his best friend is a poor choice on the other hand. If you're with somebody in really serious relationship for a really long time all of your friends become mutual friends so may have just been. That was her circle of friends. Those are the people she knew. Yeah i mean that's a good point. I mean i think that we all know that that human beings you know they have frailties and i'm sure nobody's sets out to sleep with their husbands best friend or maybe they do or maybe they do. You're right we've done enough cases disarmament. I just it is a weird joyce it is. It is tough because you know when you're fearing for your life and you do not want. I mean i would think that one would not want to bring more energy to to this already contentious. Yeah i mean it would be really scary. And it's not like she would probably have a hard time finding another bo. a mean she's attractive. she's wealthy. I mean that's the thing she appears to have it all. She has so many choices. Why the best friend. So but on november twenty third mark's best friend ended up sending her an email saying that after a quote long and very frank conversation with mark. He could not see her anymore. Adding quote for your for my children's sake and for my own. He encouraged her to take all the necessary steps to secure your own safety so know. This is all from linda's perspective. This is all hearsay but at the same time. Yeah i mean assuming this is it would seem that mark was somebody who was to be feared by other people whether it's his ex weather. It's his best friend or anybody that he might be mad at. Yeah depending on how one looked at it and once spun it absolutely two months later. The marriage between linda and mark was dissolved. Mark ended up paying. Linda hundred thousand dollars for her interest in the business but according to police reports a week later on january twenty second two thousand eight. Linda got a phone message for mark saying quote. You know i can hurt you too. And i know how to do it. This is war this goddamn war. You're wrecking my life. You've wrecked my life enough and the obsession with the wedding photos on valentine's day. He sent another you know he would leave these voicemail messages. Which of course she kept and he said if i ever for whatever reason find out that you were still in possession of those wedding things. I don't care if it is five. Ten or twenty years from now on. I'm coming to see you time. You got your goddamn divorce. But i better not ever find anyway. It goes on and on about these pictures and on mark's birthday though in march he he goes on. It's actually quite sad. He said i can't find a piece of property and they're not giving me any permits. My world is falling apart. This may be my last birthday. What am i going to do. You know he just it it. It feels like there's the threatening ones but then also this kind of desperation not a lot of positive things for me now. He says. I don't know what i'm about anymore but i am about to give up. Linda's attorney told marc not to contact her anymore. Because it's caused. We're adding up eighty two times by march two thousand eight. They ran the gamut of of you know just kind of these threatening things but then also just a person who was having a hard time letting go and things culminated in march when a neighbor of linda's caught him stealing trash from her garbage cans at the bottom of driveway. Linda called the police and mar and mark was charged with stalking and theft and he lived several hours away from her. Still he did. He was driving all that way just to go through her garbage he was wow and so that april basically a domestic violence protection order was issued prohibiting mark from contacting linda and possessing a firearm. And what happened then. Though is that mark entered an alford plea for stocking which is something you sign. That says you aren't guilty but that you believe there's evidence that they could convict you so he just decided you know. He wanted this to go away. He was in another thing he had to give up all of his guns which is like a huge thing and he had to do at twelve month anger management program. So the self described libertarian. Hunter and firearm collector also signed his wife's rights away to carry a gun until twenty ten. Which is a big deal. When you're this huge avid. I think he had a collection of thirty guns. Well if he goes hunting and fishing. Yes yes it's a big deal. Yeah but this last court battle seemed to get mark back on track. He did not contact linda again. After that protection order was put in place in fact. Mark seemed to be ready to move on in october. Two thousand eight. He began dating a new woman that he had met through a mutual friend and he'd finally found a permanent location for his business. Really sweet piece of property and anna cordis that included four acres of land with a house a barn with outdoor kennels and a fenced area for dogs to run social really great pacific northwest property with the with the cedar shingles. That are all weather looking. lots of. i mean that's a really great looking house. It just seems like it no. It's not an island but he's really you know ready to move on and ready to make a fresh star right and a place for him to stake his claim and build something something to look forward to something to give him a positive outlook on what the future might hold. Yeah something on his own that. He wasn't beholden to anyone anymore and linda had met someone new as well. A man named michael oakes. They met at a starbucks and yacob on at the time oaks lived in kennewick with three of his four children and worked in sales for an internet service provider but also had experience in tactical contingency planning was supposed to been hired as a bodyguard and they fell madly in love and linda seems to convince them that mark was a true threat her wellbeing and weather they concocted the plot together or whether michael oakes just decided to go off and be a hero. I don't know it. Sounds like she is attracted to men who have really really strong personalities. I mean if she says that mark had anger issues. Michael clearly has a very strong personality if he could be a bodyguard. I mean maybe she's just attracted to that really kind of beefcake strong somewhat aggressive kind of personality. Well in funny that you should say beefy strong because this guy was like shrimp he was really. I think he was like really really. Yeah i mean. I don't wanna say really short in degrading type of way. He kinda seemed more like from the interviews. That i saw he was somebody who wanted to prove something somebody who maybe he was picked on as a kid and so then he was like. I'm not gonna let other people be picked on. i don't know he just. He didn't fit on beefcake type. Huge man he was just more of like. I feel like he could be and that's where some people would say that. Maybe he was her pond but what she did do is. She showed michael her cash of documents that she had like. I could just picture her with this lake safe with all of these documents. About what a horrible person her ex husband was including you know how that she'd had to get that protection order and how he had stock turn. How all these phone messages. And you know. I mean when people go through divorces. I can imagine that you would say the most awful things to somebody. You don't mean it. You don't know if the person's been drinking at the time you don't know it's all context. Is everything i mean. I'm not making excuses for this guy. Though when he had wanted it was at thirty phone calls or something like that. Within a matter of months it was. It was like eighty. Yeah love and definitely it is so anyway. This is in our story where it feels like. The hunter became the hunted in august. Two thousand nine to anonymous calls came into the skagit county sheriff's office now remember. That's over in anna cordis. We found out later. Skagit county had received two anonymous phone calls the night before saying that mark stover was transporting a large quantity of drugs from his home. In an accord is down to seattle. Apparently that was all it took for the skagit county police to pull him over. Mark immediately suspected that his wife an ex father in law had something to do with this. As i said he adamantly denied doing anything of the kind knew he was not into drugs at all and certainly wasn't gonna do anything to jeopardize business. It was ludicrous. There are some drugs though some drugs for animals that are sold on the black market for people like ketamine so it's not too far outside of the realm of possibility that somebody who works with animals would have access to drugs that would be sold on the black market. Yeah that's true. It's just apprising that even though he hadn't had any contact with with linda and all that time that he would just think that he would be convinced that it was his ex wife and her father had something to do with it so he hired lee to help him get to the bottom of that drug plant. I was hired in august. Two thousand nine by jeff cradle. Who's a well-known criminal defense attorney in seattle and jeff had been contacted by march stover. Who was extremely upset because he'd been pulled over by the skagit county police. A couple of deputies who wanted to search his car and he at the time mark was was driving a van and it was filled with dogs and dog food and he had no idea why this was occurring to him and the police confiscated is fan. And that's what. He called mr cradle. And also mr cradle called me. Mark obviously denied vigorously that there were any drugs in his fan. But we didn't know because the ban was now in the hands of the police and if they found anything it was going to go down to the washington state patrol crime lab. God knows when we find out if they had anything. So i would like. I was on a deadline to try to beat the washington state patrol crime. Lab was coming up with results. Obviously the first place to go since mark owned a dog training school was to look at his employees. I just keep thinking about all those dogs in the van with all those animals when you're when you're van is confiscated by the state patrol. And when you are innocent of it and you're like what i mean. Can you imagine how shocking that would be. But yeah i'm sure it was like super chaotic and the dogs are probably like what's going on and lee would look into his employees but but mark was like convinced that the drug plant was linda's doing one markers told me about his belief that linda at her family were responsible. I did think that he was a little little history. Onic that opinion. I couldn't see any evidence for that quickly changed. Of course when michael oakes was arrested in fact. Marcus right. And i had my comeuppance too because after mark's death and i began working with the skagit county sheriff's office in prosecutor's office prosecution of mr oaks. The family actually sent an investigator to do surveillance on me. That was an odd feeling. You mean the Family yes yes. I i have no idea what anybody thought they were going to gain by having an investigator trying to become close to me. It's not like i invite anybody into my office or leave files hanging around for that matter shared confidential information about an ongoing case but lawley updike's law firm send out an investigator to my home on the olympic peninsula on several occasions. I suppose to try to get some inside information. I assure you that they never got any. But at that point i understood how mark felt. There was no reason to do that but somebody did. It was the same thing for there was no reason to go. After the divorce was over everyone had moved on the financial situation had been adjudicated. I feel like this may be a case of a family. That has too much time and money on their hands. Shop new looks for the new year. At macy's one day sale going on now with deals of the day like sweaters from al fani inc and more nineteen ninety nine to twenty nine ninety nine and get forty to sixty percents off coats and boots then add the finishing touch to any look with fine jewelry clearance seventy percent off plus get your dot com orders fast with context free curbside pickup or. You can pick them up inside. The store for details visit macys. Dot com savings off sale and clearance prices. Exclusions apply. I feel like i'm still. I've read back and forth left and right down digging down deep. And it's like i had add that here because what will happen. Next is just bizarre. And it's like he had moved on. He moved on in his life and he was terrified. He felt like somebody was going to kill him. He felt like he was being watched. He i mean it's really sad to think about how frightened this man truly was and before it's kind of like i said the the hunter becomes the hunted. Linda had made the super convincing videos with her like i. It's interesting how you can create an narrative that is you know. Paints them in the way that you want to paint them whether or not. it's actually factual. Yeah yeah yeah and that doesn't always happen. In these cases in fact in most cases of domestic violence is exactly what it is it also makes me wonder about how much her family is involved in her life and by extension involved in mark's life i mean not only were. They living on her family's private island but according to leave was the family that hired the investigator to keep an eye on her. Yeah so it sounds like the family was really pulling the strings here. Yeah for sure. So apparently back to the drug thing they found this metal magnet container on the undercarriage of his van and it had a little cocaine and marijuana know ketamine. But even so. The deputy didn't arrest mark because he actively denied having drugs and law enforcement believed it could be a setup. We have on the outside of the car. Anybody could put it there. Yeah anybody and who was the person who made the these nine one one calls so lee has some opinions based on her work on the case and again these are only her opinions linda and her father. Wally have never been charged in the murder of mark. Stover as time went on it became clear that there was a pattern. A kind of build up to his murder and it started when his ex wife. Linda accused him of stalking her in her home in winthrop where she had moved after the divorce. Well it is true that mark was in the vicinity of her home in two thousand nine but he was going through her garbage because he said that she was making phone calls to clients badmouthing him and she was doing things to bottle up the phone service in other elements of his business which he had received as part of the divorce so he was looking for evidence. He was observed and charged and took a deal. That was not terribly good for him. It required him to be on house arrest for a year and then probation for a year and then the charges were going to be dropped and of the terms of that probation is that mark had to give up all his weapons he had had to take them from his home so the probationary period was just about two mp when markets pulled over by the skagit county. Police allegedly carry drugs. I think linda updike was trying to just bring down her husband and she started by getting him arrested on stalking charges. But that didn't work market here to all the conditions and he was about to be become a free man without a record so she gets her new boyfriend to make these anonymous phone calls now. He's pulled over and houses vamp again. He's under suspicion by the police will. That didn't work either because the crime lab didn't even come back with the results of the drug test until after the conclusion of the trial. Michael oakes and i think that's what escalated the whole situation. Linda was just frustrated. She wasn't being able to bring down her ex-husband as quickly as she wanted so she got a boyfriend out to kill him. You know this is like you said. There's two sides to every story granted. Mark may have been digging through the trash for a reasonable purpose. But what about all those voicemails all the time that he called her and yelled at her and i mean he's still had some sketchy behavior. This may have been a case where both sides had anger issues for. Sure i mean. Mark was described as super gruff. And just he could be charming when he wanted to but he was very dominating and opinionated and so yeah i mean who knows but you're probably wondering what happened to mark's dover on october twenty eight th two thousand nine but before we get there. There's a couple of things that you need to know. I for about five months before murder. Michael remembered that's the new boy boyfriend. Yeah would later testify that according to him mark was allegedly threatening him and he feared for his children's lives over those wedding photos. Oakes's story was that somehow stover had contacted him and then they met several times before the day newmar. The day marks death at oaks driven down from winthrop the night before final. Ok corral meeting about the wedding photos. Which by the way i discovered in mr stover's home after his death she found those wedding photos. After all the this this back and forth because according to michael mark had ambushed him at costco and demanded those wedding photos and that they would meet up multiple times. Like michael kind of set this up that that mark would just like show up and he'd see him and be like where am i waiting. Just give him the photos. That's what i'm saying. She said she found the photos so after his death he already had them because he was supposed to that that october twenty eighth he was supposed to go bring the wedding photos. Tamar say that he didn't have that but the final showdown was that mark demanded that michael meet him at midnight on october. Twenty four now this data significant because it would come up later and trial with michael's ex wife jennifer thompson. Who even though. Michael was in a relationship with linda. He was also sort of rekindling their relationship or at least. That's what it seemed like the evening of october. Twenty four th. He made arrangements to go. See her at her house in everett and when he left. Michael didn't say anything about mark and his obsession with the these wedding photos or linda for that matter but that he had quote some side work a job that he was off to do and that it was dangerous. He left her house at ten. And you know he would say that he was supposed to meet mark at midnight but then he and jennifer would exchange texts that night and she says going to sleep. Wish you could somehow be here with me. Be safe praying for you. Good night sweet boy and he says thank you for everything i am okay. Job failed no pay or damage. So there's no record that phone call ever happened between the two of them but we can piece together. What did happen the day. Mark disappeared through security video. Starting remember how he said. Linda had that souped up that fortress with the security while at two thirty in the morning on october twenty eighth. Linda's surveillance video captures a very close prolonged embrace between linda. And michael i mean. Think a woman hugging her man before he's headed out to battle. I mean it's a really long kind of embrace. Like significant is about to happen. A few hours later at a mount vernon walmart by marx house surveillance captures michael's black suzuki suv. Now it's important to remember that that's his car at five sixteen an remember according to his testimony. He's has a seven. Am meeting set up with mark to talk to him about the wedding photos are to say. I don't have the photos. So why is he buying a backpack. Camouflage pants and sweat shirt an anchor rope ankle weights and shin. Mark was a man of habits. You could set a watch to schedule and rarely did he. Deviate every tuesday and wednesday. He was booked appointments to seattle with his clients and of course. That was the plan on that wednesday october. Twenty eighth so now. We're going to get into kind of what happened that day. From the perspective of the employees he had three employees. That would work for him. So melena was the first to arrive at seven. Fifty marks other employees. Amber and stephanie were also scheduled to work and amber remembers talking to mark the night before and he told her he was leaving the next morning around seven. Thirty for nine. Am appointment and he would sear when he returned. He typically drove the his bmw when he went to seattle and amer said that when she talked to mark the night before you know he was just in a great mood he was excited and proud about changes to the business but when amber arrived at eight she noticed the dogs in the kennel. We're just going crazy. They were barking and she walked over to calm them down. And that's when she noticed marks white station wagon and it wasn't in its usual spot which was normally further down the driveway and but it was backed up to the bmw parked in the carport. But amer figured that. Maybe he'd been delayed but when she tried to get into the house. The door was locked and he always kept it unlocked because they use the bathroom there so she thought that was really strange. And then she's noticed a small area with blood on the ground and her pulse quickened but she kind of explained it away. That dingo you know remember. His beloved guard dog was still recovering from surgery. And that may be dingo ahead. Reopened that wound. You know how we tell ourselves these things especially when you have that many animals around you never know if family got into a scuffle or something happened. It's really common amber then left. Because her job was to drive dogs to seattle in that company. Van around eight thirty. Stephanie arrived and she started walking several dogs and she saw a man who she believed was mark after all he was wearing. He was very well known for wearing the signature hat and this coat and he was coming and going from the house carrying big things putting it in the back of that white. Stay station wagon. And stephanie thought. It was really weird when mark almost peeled out. Shut down that driveway in that station wagon without stopping and after he left. Stephanie went to use the bathroom in the house and was immediately hit by a strong odor of bleach. The door that had been locked was now unlocked. She saw three wet spots on the entry met in the hallway. That had a red tint to them. It all felt a little strange but nothing else seemed out of place so you know she just went back to work. You might have already guessed. That wasn't mark racing down the driveway in the station wagon. It was michael wearing marks hat. And his co. so where was mark. Let's go back to the surveillance tape so at nine forty three. We see michael driving mark station wagon to lowe's parking lot in mount vernon at nine fifty. He rents a pair of bolt cutters. He's wearing a black fleece coat. And those camouflage pants. And here's where you got love small. Dan's thankfully some observant witnesses. Help piece together. What happens next. You mean nosey nelly Yeah these women are like rock stars. That morning sharon her adult daughter tammy stopped at this place called the summit. Park grange which is about half mile for mark's house now. The grange has a restricted back. Parking with one of those. You know those long metal chains driveway. That's locked in but it blocks the entrance well. The women noticed this white station wagon backed up to this black. Suv their their parked. Trunk to trunk in that coordoned-off area which they shouldn't be in and then they're watching this guy with his arms around a huge role of plastic trying to move it from one trunk to the other and one of the women would say out loud. It looked like a body. Oh my gosh not only did they call nine one one. Thank you to report the trespass put. They write down the license plate number of that black. Suv is drives away. A deputy quickly responded and even though the black suv was gone he was able to run the plates. Because you know they'd written him down and and gave them to them and the station wagon of course was still parked behind. The grange ran. Those two mark stover was the registered owner of the station wagon. Michael oakes was the registered owner of that black. Suv yes but who was driving it. Well we're gonna find out guys got a run of bad luck so here's where it gets even more strange. remember how. Michael went to lows and rented those bolt cutters. Yeah the deputy took a hard look at that cable and chain wrapped around the post of the coordoned-off area and piece of that chain link was removed so basically looked like it was still in place but it really was broken because he just kind of hooked it there right. Yeah yeah so. The deputy left grange but again small towns at around twelve thirty. He sees the black suv. The car over michael said that he was at the parking lot to make a phone call because he was looking for the casino but the officer would note that he was acting really nervously and he also thought he saw blankets or sleeping bag in the back but because the windows were tinted he couldn't be sure and because it was his word against you know the nosey nelly you had to let him go with a warning but no from testimony later from michael's ex wife that he then called her after that encounter with the deputy and asked her to meet at starbucks and when she saw him he looked completely disheveled normally he was meticulously dressed and michael if they could go to a beach to walk around but he was like we have to take separate cars. I already have a passenger in. He and michael was wearing dirty clothes. The black fleece jacket was covered in animal hair and yet a rusty reddish stain on his right knee of his jeans and it looked like blood and he was carrying a gun and he was acting really worried when she asked what was wrong. He said i think i'm in trouble like felony. Ten to fifteen years trouble. He added that to old biddies had seen him and in twenty four to forty eight hours. When the shit hit the fan his name would now be associated with that area. So it's a good thing. Those women yeah had called that in were who knows whether this would have been solved. He would go on to say that he was doing job. And that's something went wrong. He made a mistake. Something that was not planned happened. And he made reference to those those women again and that the people that were helping him are not going to and that he's all on his own so it's a really weird thing to say which would make sense if it's the updike family. Yes if they've been pulling the strings and now they say oh. Forget this later surveillance. Video showed michael returning to the lows at four fifty one driving his black suv. And then there's another clothing change. He's wearing black gloves and bluejeans. He returns the bolt cutters. The casino surveillance video shows a white station wagon driving into the casino parking lot at six twenty one. So how in the world i mean. Let's imagine that for a second goes wrong. He's got these two cars to deal with. He's got all this crazy unbelievable day. You know it's weird that sticking out to me is why would he rent bolt cutters i. It's a weird question with everything else. That's happening no. It's not a weird question. Because i was thinking the same thing like they could meet in any parking lot. It's not like they had to meet in that parking lot. For some reason. I mean it was just an empty parking lot. It could've met anywhere. That's the thing kim. They weren't meeting anywhere. He was stuck with these two cars after he had killed mark. He now had his black suv which he had parked somewhere. That wasn't on mark's property okay. So he was walking so he had the suv. Somewhere around the vicinity of mark's house to mark's how lost to mark's house okay and then he was had to deal with the white minivan still make him go and get the bolt cutters. I have no idea. Because i'm like it is probably super. I've been in accordance. There are plenty of places to park. That are out of the way that don't require cutter that then capture you on video so it just feels like the whole thing just went was maybe doing something else. Cutting something else with those he could be. But i don't know what what else would you. I don't think you could dismember a body. With bolt cutters depends on. How big they are. Yeah okay so as you might have guessed. Mark never came back home that day and he wasn't there the next morning when his employees came to work but the employees were horrified to find marks. Beloved guard dog ding. She was lying outside under the carport. Bloody and rasping barely alive. Kim remind me if i get a dog to get a belgian mellon okay because in her efforts to protect mark diener had been shot in the face three time. How can you imagine that survived. Oh my g then died a couple of months later i think from cancer that was probably related to that surgery. Yeah poor thing. I know but what a dog and that says something also about his connection with the animal. It's amazing by this time. Marks fiancee theresa had called one of his employees. That morning. she was frantic. She'd been trying to call him all day. Usually they talk three to five times a day and she hadn't talked to him and when they told her about ding clinging to life and the blood inside outside the house and she just immediately called the police reporting both mark and his white station wagon missing and authorities in the area were were really quick to connect the dots. The deputy was like. Hey wait a second. I remember that white station wagon and he went to the grange to see if it was still. There wasn't obviously pretty quickly. They found that the mark's car at the casino parking lot not was three miles from mark's house. There was a smear of blood on the rear of the car. And detectives talked to mark's employees and lee. And i remember that. I was very line in seattle about to take off her. Bainbridge and mr cradle asked me when i last spoke to mr stover mr stolen was the kind of client the call every day. I call them my wakeup call. Because every day about eight o'clock. I get a phone call from him and he would say kinda grou- under the phone. What have you done on my case lately. What's new. And i hadn't heard from him in one day so i told mr cradle. I heard within within forty eight hours but not not today and he said well. His his house is now a crime scene. Do you wanna talk with the investigating officer in charge. And i said yes i do. It didn't take long for detectives to make the connection that the man mark's ex wife was dating was more than likely the same michael oakes the deputy had pulled over the day before who'd been acting so sketchily and by seven forty detectors were pulling up to linda's house. You know three hours away and winthrop eyeing that black. Suv in the driveway and linda invited the officers inside and they told linda and michael. That mark was missing and asked michael. What were you doing by marx house. Day before michael looked at linden said. Don't worry honey. I can explain. He then went on to say that he went there to visit his ex-wife and her two sons so while they were waiting at linda's house for the search warrant to come through on michael's suv. A couple of things happened. One of the detectives went outside to get better cell reception to call down to the police station inside. Though michael began to frantically look around the house saying he needed to find his pills and while the officer inside was to linda because there was two of them there. So you've got one on the outside and an officer on the inside michael. Unbeknownst to the officer on the inside goes outside and he doesn't know that the cop is on the on his cell phone watching above from the deck as he pulls out this white plastic bag from the back of his suv. Oh no yeah so. The cop is literally watching as michael gets rid of evidence. I'm guessing yeah. And he's like dude. What are you doing. He goes down. And when michael sees the cop he throws it off this embankment as if it's then just disappeared into the ether and no one will know. There was something in your hand. That's where this whole story is just so crazy it's like why wouldn't you get rid of that before you went to lend us house. What is it even doing in your vehicle. I mean not. Like i want him to get off at all. But it's like you know their sales lydia opportunity to do something about the cops arrived. This is over twenty four hours. After the murder surprise surprise. Michael is put into the back of the police car. That plastic bag is retrieved inside. They found a twenty two caliber browning pistol a ziplock bag containing a square of carpet cut from a larger piece a receipt from lowe's some clothing tags a bloody napkin. A bollock lava mask later when they would search his suv with that warrant. They would also find that walmart receipt for all that stuff. He had bought that morning the backpack with the shin guards with dog hair all over them and a suitcase. On the back seat that contained a bulletproof vest nine millimeter magazines and a pair of freshly laundered jeans that still had a faint staining on the niece those genes that he was wearing when he went to talk on the beach with his essay. Soccer mom will. No blood is really hard to get out of fabric. I know but then why would he put him back in. I mean wouldn't you just like i want to burn the like. Why would you favorite gene. They had to bet because there's no other reason that he would keep them. I mean it. Just psych mind boggling. They also found a cleaning. Manual for a sparrow. Sound suppressing silencer. Obviously this didn't look good for mark stover especially when they combed his house for the forensic said evening and the next day and they found bloodstains found all that incriminating evidence. They didn't find any evidence of a struggle. They found marks license and credit cards and his bmw along with his cell phone on the front seat. Obviously he was preparing to take his bmw to seattle like he always does not waiting for some wedding photos. I feel like there is a small chance here though that there could be an argument for self defense if michael was going to mark's house to deliver the wedding photos if he did in fact give those wedding photos to mark and if mark for some reason still had access to a gun and maybe pulled that on michael and michael responded. The dog somehow got in the fray. I i mean it's a stretch. But i guess i could see there being an argument for that. I bet he wishes you would have been on jury so that friday michael was arrested and charged with murder. Bail set at five million but the bail was eventually reduced to two point five and he was released. Divers and cadaver dogs searched the swimmers channel near the casino for mark's body multiple times without success. That casino had surveillance video that captured michael driving down a dead end road that led to the waterway at some point that day so the four week jury trial began on september. Twenty seventh two thousand. Ten and i bet you in dollars that you can guess who his defense attorney what. You're smiling three names henry. Yeah so you know. He had the big guns the big money behind him young sure he would have argued self defense if they could have. He did. Oh he did. Oh yeah he did argue self defense and it was just like if you look at video from that. It's so sad because remember has four children. And i don't know what their ages were but like in the interviews that i've seen you know they're like kid teen and they're just devastated. They're just like you can see just. Our dad would never do something like i mean. It's just so sad but witnesses like marks. Fiancee really began to paint a pretty dark picture of mark's final days he was fearful for his life as i mentioned before his fiancee said that she could tell that he was anxious but he tried to hide it because he didn't want to have her bear that burden she said quote. He said that someone was trying to kill him and he knew he was being followed. He did not wish to leave paper trails so he used only cash. He would call me from. Payphones used a cell phone occasionally. I mean this is the kind of stuff where a person seems super paranoid and crazy but in this case he had reason you had reason to and even the private investigator. I mean to go so far as to hire somebody to pay somebody to help you figure this out. Yeah clearly he was afraid and she seems like she very quickly found good reason for him to be afraid. Yeah so in in the trial you know. There was just a huge paper trail leading back to michael that he had bought a twenty two caliber browning pistol october first. Two thousand nine. And that he told an employee that he had suppressor for it. So that silencer. A ballistic expert would testify that the bullet casings that they found outside marks home. Were fired from the twenty two caliber browning and it was likely those bullets recovered from ding to tie. No see i knew you were going to get like he needs ten years added on me. Yeah and all the blood from the crime scene and inside the white station wagon and inside the black. Suv were from mark. I know you've been waiting for this for a long time. And you already guessed michael's defense. That's exactly what he said that it was that mark stover had made those repeated threats against michael that he feared for his life. And you know over those wedding photos and the safety of his children and he said that he went to mark's house that morning to tell him that he didn't care about the pictures anymore and that he would just leave but mark produced a gun and there was a struggle and mark. Shot michael in the chest but fortunately he survived because remember. He's wearing that. Kevlar vests see. Why do you go in wearing a kevlar vest. If you're not expecting there to be gun play and that's just like a dead giveaway. During the struggle. Mark was accidentally shot in the neck or somewhere and so basically he just said that we sat there and he was like he didn't feel like police would believe him. Because you know he'd never even told linda supposedly about these encounters that he was having with mark over these wedding photos and he didn't tell the police that it obviously makes no sense. Why would he be bothering michael about wedding photos that his ex had yeah. It's really anything. But if you look at like i was just listening to a podcast. That was talking about a case very similar to this where the the woman basically set up her husband and acted like he was crazy and that he was addicted to drugs and like even actually poisoned him so he would go to the hospital to have this overdose and they said that he was a suicidal vet and all this stuff and and so painted this picture years later it was a total setup. He wasn't suicidal. He wasn't yeah he was a he had ptsd but he was handling it. And so that's where i get back to when we had the conversation earlier where it's like. Yeah he he called her way too many times. He shouldn't have called her eighty times. You know that that was before. He went through a year of anger management as well. Yeah that's true. That is true so maybe he had turned things around. Yeah so when. The prosecutor asked linda updike if by testifying for her boyfriend and helping him establish a self defense case. That would get her off the hook to and linda's like well. What do you mean by that. And the the Prosecutor says well if jury were defined that this was self defense you wouldn't have any more liability either said the prosecutor and she responded. I have no liability in this case. Of course she's going to say that. Yeah and it's true. Linda has never been charged with a crime on this case nobody in her family has been charged with you know in this case and the only person who has been charged as michael oakes. And after three days of deliberations the jury found him guilty of premeditated murder in the first degree he was sentenced to twenty six and a half years in prison. The maximum allowed and the judge was say the night went out to slay the dragon for the princess so the judge clearly thought that linda had something to do with it if not directly asking at least intimating that she would like for this to happen. We'll police and prosecutors have made it clear in the past that they believe. Michael did not act alone. Moving body alone getting rid of about did they ever find the remains. No they never did no. I don't think that there is contested. That he did all of that himself he even came out clean. And said yeah. I did all that. I mean just everything that went down the back and forth must he was exhausted. I'm sure like all the walking between the vehicles and three miles to the casino and you know half a mile to the grange and all that stuff moving those vehicles back and forth legal bolt cutter. I know i mean there was no plan. Obviously i don't know what the plan was to begin with. And i still couldn't like why would linda do. This doesn't make sense why she was wealthy beautiful and had the means to do whatever she wanted. Mark had been kicked off the literally. He'd bared his soul and all these voice mails. He had his guns taken away in the stocking stuff. What would motivate her to allegedly have killed him. I have never been able to figure out linda. Updike's through motive for getting to destroy her ex-husband's life. I remember asking mark on in the investigation. Why he considered linda and her father possible candidates in this drug setup and he just said they just don't like to lose they will keep on going until they win and maybe it's too simple that she comes from a powerful family. It's been very successful in the business realm and they just like to win. So what do you think i mean. I think clearly someone in the updike family had some kind of role in this. Whether it's linda whether it's her father whether it's both of them or somebody else i guess we'll never know. So what are we have for next week. We are going to go back to the american old west. We're going to talk about one of the pacific northwest's out laws of the old west somebody that Some folks have compared to butch cassidy. No my gosh. That's coming up next week wild west. I'm caroline saria with kim shepard and this is the scene of the crime a.

mark linda Michael oakes seattle Linda Mark linda updike mercer island anna cordis marc stover Linda updike chris cornell mallon wa mark side mr cradle clockwork mark kim shepard skagit county police greta
Bainbridge Artisan's Resource Network - Part 2 - Mike Morgan, shop lead

It's Wood - A show about all things woodworking

44:25 min | 11 months ago

Bainbridge Artisan's Resource Network - Part 2 - Mike Morgan, shop lead

"Nah. NAH NAH NAH Nana hey everybody Daniel Kirk. Welcome to. It's its a podcast on all things. From the tools, we use the companies who make them to the artisans who used them and really anything in between remembered as we always say if it's, would we're? Also, the opinions and actions, comments of our guests are strictly their own, and do not necessarily reflect those of anyone working with wood, so pull up a chair and join us in the shock. and. Thank you for coming along on this journey with me. Hey everybody in this second part of our discussion about barn. The bainbridge artisans resource network in Bainbridge Washington. We are talking with Mike. Morgan the Woodshop Studio, lead the Woodshop at barn is simply amazing and is open to anyone to us. We will hear about the operations of the woodworking studio as well as a bit about the history of the studio itself mic. Thank you so much for joining me and welcomed. Its would thank you, Daniel. It's a pleasure to be here now. How long have you been? Working here at Barnes since its inception, which goes back more than two years now, and prior to that I was part of the woodworkers group that formed spontaneously on Bainbridge island back in two thousand nine, so I've been at this for more than ten years now. but barn is relatively recent. Yeah, and then we are just so people get a geographic sense Bainbridge. Island is up on the sound in Washington the puget sound. It's absolutely beautiful here. My. Best friend and I kinda toured around a little bit on the island and we've been here before he. He used to live up this area and it's just gorgeous, and do you find that? That this community or this island kind of draws. Artists. Yes very definitely, so my wife and I lived before here on Mercer Island which is on the other side of puget sound, and it's a wealthy bedroom community, not dissimilar from this one, but no artists community at all. Yeah, and so this is very different in that sense really attracts artists, artists, artists ends of all types and. It's also true that people liked living here. And I've actually been told there are people who want to move to Bainbridge island so that they can join barn now. That's a little more than I'm quite ready to believe, but maybe it's true. Yeah, I mean just touring around the little that we dead. There are some ridiculous resources here you WanNa take us through a little bit of that I. Know We're going to talk a lot about the woodworking. But what else can people do here on Bainbridge? Barn Yeah. There are depending on how you count eleven or twelve different studios ranging from the writers group. You know they just have a little room where they sit there and learn how to write. But, they bring in the most impressive array of professional authors. I've ever seen so the other day. I heard that Jay Gaunt's is giving a five hour shop. In the writer's studio, which to me I'm Jay is one of my favorite authors like J P Beaumont a lot. So I was blown away by that. That's want just one studio. We have kitchen arts as they call it. Produces lots of good things to eat, and it's a commercial kitchen in the sense that caterers can rent it. Do they share yes, when they're up there cooking. And every once in a while, we'll make something them. woodworkers made all the cabinetry for example in the room. They used to serve their bigger meals, and they reward us with a couple of plates, cookies or something good to on during the day as you were. Touring the around the woodshop. You were showing me the cabinet tree that you guys built and it's. I don't want to call it over the top for a woodshop. But it's beautiful there. They're all matched doors or veneer. Is it veneer or is it solid? It's all it's all near Oh. Okay, and you said you made upwards of four hundred of these things for the entire barn. As we've lost count so many it's at least four hundred in the early on when the building was still being finished off, we stepped forward to volunteer to make these cabinets for Barnes so that they save tens of thousands of dollars with that effort, but in return the organization. was very much willing to buy us some nice power tools, so we got some excellent. You truly amazing. We do tools out in that Shaba, but the other benefit. If I might interrupt. That is to that we all learn. We were all rookies when it came to building cabinets so in the course of this, I learned how to make euro style cabinets. which is something I'll take with me forever, yeah. Yeah awesome now. How many woodworkers share this space, okay? I counted this morning and we have three hundred and fifty active members who work in the woodshop. Periodic come in, and of course the same time that would lead over the course of a year we'll have three hundred fifty different people come in and most of them. Come in fairly frequently now do people. All people from the island or do they tend to come from all over? They come from as far away as twenty five miles that I know of yeah. So! If you look at the map, you'll notice that Bainbridge. Island is is slightly remote in the sense that there's only one bridge and there's one ferry. And so people from Bremerton will come here, and it's kind of unfortunate, because they live as the crow flies five miles away right, but as a thirty five mile drive. Here nonetheless they do that. So. I'll see regular people from fairly distant locations. Who Want to come in here because it's unique now we're here on a Wednesday morning and when we went through the shop, I, what would you say there was? Fifteen to twenty twenty people out, there would say at least a dozen doesn't. Of course, working and Everything kind of typical yeah, yeah. Now. Tell me a little bit about how. You got started. What. Are you the right person to talk to about that 'cause. Caroline also mentioned that she would be happy to sit here and talk about all the technical stuff and what you need to consult with her about. The facts regarding the the the origin of the organization itself. I only came into this as a woodworker so I can give you my perspective. It was this as I mentioned earlier. We had this woodworkers group. The started back in two thousand nine. We had no facilities, so we would meet once a month and and have a guest speaker or talk about some woodworking skill that we all wanted to learn more about, but we had no woodshop and we would sit around and you. You know wish. Why wouldn't it be nice if we had a woodshop that went nowhere for several years. We, we realize gosh. It's going to be so expensive to buy or even rent a place in renovated to have our own community Woodshop, so we were pretty discouraged until at some point and I can't tell you what the catalyst was for this beginning. Somebody realized there are other craftsman's groups on the island. Glass Workers Weavers. Metalworkers and at some point somebody got wise, and and ask these other groups well. Wouldn't you like to join together? Maybe we can get some synergy here. Some being. Parts Yeah the resulting parts and sure enough a couple of people among those other crafts groups where retired professional fundraisers perfect. And then within a year or so. We way seven and a half million dollars to build a new building. Now, so it was serendipity in a sense, but that's probably not fair. You'll have to ask caroline. Details there because I wasn't involved, we'll do the fundraising. I'm not one of those types. Yeah, then. We also recruited I didn't do this. The barn organizers recruited a an architect who donated his time. Designed, the entire building for nothing. And it's a nice design. I have to say it's it's perfect. Or nearly perfect for what we wanted to do. Chris may disagree with that because the media arts spaces quite small, yeah! You know. And it was, it was going to be a storeroom. By. All the equipment you had set up in here I. Mean it's it's probably a perfect space. Need exactly you're not gonNA. Get a ten man. You're going in here but now. Take me through a little bit about the resources that are available in your woodshop in the shop. Okay, as you saw, we have a lot of stationary power tools ranging from table saws to join tres band saws, players, a lot of sanders, and six lay the that are used by the Turner's people who make bowls spindles. About half of those were donated. From retirees or companies that stopped doing business in the area. Some of them, even from Seattle, who said Hey I like the idea of Barn? Let's donate our rules to them, so we've got some vintage power tools in there. Some of them go back to the seventies. especially, that big band saw that we talked about now. That's a nine hundred and seventy five vintage tool works beautifully now. You're making me feel old when you say. Vintage way back to the seventy S go. It's it, but it's true I mean but they. Those tools are solid at their. was correct in this disposable day and age. There's so many tools out there that. Just won't hold up. You're correct. You know over years, but these things are built like a tank. That's right. That bandsaw! Try to get a picture of it and put it on the website. But let's since I mentioned the website. You want to go ahead and plugged the barn website, or do you know what it is well? I use it I. Hope so so yeah, we use it primarily for two purposes. One is to publicize the classes that we teach in the other is to make sure that all of our members know the schedule Yeah because we're busy as you. Observed Yeah and that means twelve hours a day seven days a week. That studio is pretty busy. There are not a lot of slack hours. But one of the things we try to do is reward the people who help us the volunteers who help us in the studio by telling them okay guys, guys and girls. You can come in in slack times to do your own project as long as you have a buddy, another person to watch you or you watch each other right, and that's a valuable reward as it turns out, but in order for that to work. They've got to know what the schedule is right, so they'll look at the calendar on the website and say Oh okay from six till nine pm on Wednesday. There's nothing scheduled I'm going to go in songs. I could find a buddy so this morning I was. Sitting Down with a cup of coffee, scrolling through the list of classes in all the different studios. It took me two cups of coffee to get through it. There is just an amazing array of things that people can do here. And I want to encourage you guys, even if you're far away and could never make it to Washington to Bainbridge island to look at that and see how it's done because I. Would I've seen more and more of these types of maker spaces and studios popping up and that heartens me. It makes me feel good because I've watched. Would shops and metal shops in schools dying away? The people don't think those are important anymore or don't have the budgets for them or or whatever and to see something like this pop up. And be used as much as it seems that it it is I mean. We haven't looked at a lot of the other studios in an experienced, the amount of people working in those. But. It's very encouraging. I would agree. And I can't really explain how we have been as accessible as we have what the reasons are for that, but it's working well right now on the other hand I would. Have to say that we are a little concerned about the demographics of the people in our woodshop in particular. There are a lot of old grey haired men. Yeah a lot of them. And, so we're definitely aware of the need to recruit younger people and. into the woodshop and we work hard at that. Yeah, so we have youth programs in the summertime. You may have seen some of the classes that are offered them. Aimed specifically people age fourteen up. And those have been reasonably successful of late. One that I'd like to one of my favorites I think is. We had a class on making an electric guitar. and. We have some. Gorgeous photographs. Of! Teenage girls. Building Electric Guitars, and you can smile on their face is worth ten thousand words. It's just amazing. They really get engaged in things like that, so trying really hard to recruit more and more people in that age range so that they'll carry on because after I'm not gonna be able to do this. Much longer I don't think and so. We've got to have younger people coming in, oh. You're going to be meal. Drop dead at the saw. That's right. It's our own little heaven. So. As far as the demographic I mean, makers are makers, people with passion for Arts and creating whether it's you know audio woodworking glass. All of that I mean it really doesn't have a sex a race creed. People that have passionate about building, do it. and. But not everybody can have a shop a kiln. Aloom, those kind of things and that's why I think. People are drawn to places like this. This is like. I can have a woodshop or I can come to this woodshop. There's everything I ever wanted. You know I can't spend the thousands and thousands on. You know on tools to do that, but. And it's so. It's nice plus it if you don't have the space itself, these sorts of organizations are so important. I belong to woodworkers guild down in Portland and they have a nice shop and you know people are just as the guilt of Oregon work. Exactly know exactly yeah yeah. Those kind of things are so nice because you might have the passion for that, and now you have the resource. So how does somebody use your woodshop? What's the process? Of Well. First of all we encourage them to join to become a member of Barn, which is four hundred dollars a year for an individual membership, but it gets you into all the studios, not just not just one. Yeah, so that's a bargain by my accounting. Anyway, you do not have to be a member however to use the studio. You can pay the. We charge twenty dollars a day for a day visit. And some people do that. Others will join monthly thirty five dollars a month. I believe is the monthly rate, so if you're going to be if you're a SNOWBIRD, right and you're only going to be here June till September you can join for four months or if you have a project. That's right that you want to do this. You can do that. Yeah, yeah, we do in the woodshop insists that you take and complete three safety classes. Yeah, because we need to make sure that you understand the the safety hazards behind a table saw and a joiner and saw so, but those are relatively inexpensive classes three hours each, so it's not a big time commitment now are. Do you pay for the classes? Yes, we. Above and beyond the memberships, all classes carry a charge of of some sort, these safety classes that I'm talking about are very inexpensive ten dollars each members so you. It's almost nothing. Pay More than that for a cup of coffee. Or something yeah, so we make them inexpensive. We want them to be accessible, so we offer them three and four times a month now to the three classes offered very frequently so that we can get people through. Very nice very nice now, further woodshop. and. Can Even speak to to barn as a whole. You've only been around a couple years, but. What is what does the future hold doesn't look like you can expand too much in the building department, a real estate's kind of. You know said. which is gorgeous and going to put some? Photos of just the campus. Is just is just such a beautiful design and you're like you said you had an attack architect. Donate time to do it. He I think he did a really good job But what do you see coming up for the workshop? Well, it's a fair point Woodshop in particular is near its capacity right now so I do not see us going. Substantially beyond three hundred and fifty members. Yeah, because we don't have the space for it, we can't accommodate them. So in the future as I say I, think the effort will be in replacing the older members as they voluntarily to stop working here with younger people, and that's one of the things I'm gonNA emphasize in the remaining time. I have a studio lead because I. Just don't think we can handle more people. We need to keep the flow going and some people. Are Worried about my attitude regarding that, but I reassure them that I'm not trying to push anybody out. We're just WANNA. Make sure that there's somebody in the pipeline when percents going to be here for longevity. Yeah, yeah, and to learn the ropes I can't be studio. Lead for very long I don't want to be. Volunteer position, but I don't want to be paid. So sooner or later, somebody else will have to step up. And that means we have to have ships to make sure everybody learns the rules and procedures, the few rules and procedures that we do have so they're up to speed when it's time. For Your woodshop. What's the most popular class? I would say it's a class called beginning woodworking power tools. But it's focused on making a step stool. Now's really sturdy step still that every student can take home. And Use and its in demand at first, we offered it once every three months. We couldn't sustain that. There was too many too much demand, so we're doing it once a month now, and it's six people at a time. That's really all we can handle and it's full. So, I would say that's the most popular single class. A lot of others that personally I would point out as being favorites. 'CAUSE I took them. You know like one was learning how to solve in ears. Theresa a big chunk would into precise one eighth inch slices that you can make into something that looks Nice, and that's done that big band style were talking about Northfield bandsaw. Yeah, which is perfect for that application, so we had a professional come in and teach. You called it fun with veneers. and. He didn't teach it in the traditional sense what he did was he'd come in each class, session and talk. Forty five minutes, or so about his experiences making veneers, and then he'd say okay. guys go to it. I'll circulate around in watch you. And make comments and suggestions in a way. It was a very effective way of teaching that particular subject. And we all ended up with a nice looking tabletops or trays or Items of other sorts made with veneers. I thought that was really fun. It's A. It's not the most popular class. And, so we're we're going to give like every six months and I think that will satisfy that demand. It was pretty expensive, too because we had to pay him Iran Professional. He's not going to do this for free. So it added up to a little bit more than some of our classes, too, but the one I would really point to is a class called. Make a guitar. We started with a kit from a company down in Napa Valley all the parts and pieces that you need except the strings to make an Acoustic Acoustic Guitar I had never done anything like that before I. Don't Play Guitar. But I was thinking. You know it might be fun to learn what's involved in making an Acoustic Guitar Oh. It was fun taught by a professional luthier on Bainbridge island. Nice, and he taught it much the same way. His style was such that he would just sort of circulate around and watch us. It's been two years since I started just finishing my guitar now and it looks good. Woodworking Making an instrument of many types guitars, particularly violence may be here with those. That's like the Golden Chalice that a lot of US woodworkers look adding. Some nee, you know and to be able to actually do it Was it everything you thought it would be. It was it was a real privilege that work with fellow. This teacher and I've got a guitar that my brother who plays and it's played. It says you know that sounds pretty good. You did okay. Okay. That's that's. That's as good as I can hope for. now I've got to learn how to play it. Plans to do that I do what are some new classes that you guys are working on designing right now? Brady pretty tight. Think about this for a minute We have a new relatively new member who is a professional designer and model maker. So he likes to teach people how to design furniture or other objects by first making a paper model. One that's easy to modify so it's not really glued any S-. Any permanent sense uses. What Elementary. School Glue that sure can take it apart foam corey. Stuff. Yeah, and and he's encouraging people to design their individual project and paper first and then see how they can modify it to make it look better. Get get closer to. What they were originally conceiving so this is an experimental class. Now we're going to try. In a couple of a couple of formats, one with young people and another with GROWNUPS, so it'll be fun do that. Yeah. I think the the the young people would be more receptive to it. The older folks, the you know we're going to look at that. You're not here to play with paper scissors and yeah, and it'll be interesting to see what it's, but those of things are amazing for designing. Yeah One of the fun things and I'm techique and everybody knows that I've started playing with I do some three D. modeling if I'm designing a piece of. Furniture or something, and then I pipe it into my vr set, and I walk around it. And I look at it in real size I mean it's just. It's like it's like I can. I can see how we're. This could become a thing someday and I mean the software is not. You've got to kind of poured it in from other things and. Being able to design a desk for my wife so I did that it was a fairly simple desk, but I wanted to kind of get a feel for it before I invested the time and the money and get it done and go. Just doesn't quite fit. Right doesn't look good, so I did that and it was like okay. This is this is fun. This is fun to do. Any other classes that that you're. We've had requests for classes that go beyond the basics in most of those are. On topics that I would call techniques how to use the router creatively or how to use a particular tool not to make up particular project, but to do what you WanNa do with it right, so we have a couple of people who have volunteered to develop an intermediate router techniques, class, and an intermediate table saw texts techniques class now I wouldn't have thought you needed. A basic and intermediate and advanced table saw class, but I guess you do their whole different skill sets. They really are and to be able to. Also include people that are very experience or reasonably experienced to give them new levels masterclasses as it were. That's awesome. I would not say we're at the masterclass level yet. I mean we're only been at it for a couple of years, but yeah. That's on the horizon. There seems to be a need for that, and there's increasing demand for it as people get more sophisticated, having taken our basic classes or coming with experience. They'RE GONNA ask for that, so we're ready to try. Now. That's great and finding. Qualified Instructors for some of these classes is sometimes a challenge. Yeah, they'd have the time to have the time and the know how I mean most of them are willing. But it's it we have to be careful. Right we don't want to overburden anybody, so we have to. Just because you have those skills, you don't necessarily have the teaching exactly. you know and. I mean teaching is a passion in and of itself, and be able to design a course that people can get a hold of can be tough I've taught. Some minor stuff like that. But I'm not good at it because there's so much that I assume because I already know. And so the explanations are not good enough for somebody that doesn't know anything about. It is so I'm lucky in the sense that I spent forty years as a member of the faculty at the University of Washington, teaching graduate students so I've been through that. Yeah, what I don't have is the woodworking skills that are necessary for an intermediate or advanced course, so let's talk about woodworking. When did you first get a passion for our did that start? It's a checkered history. You don't have to give any day this is. Just my grandfather got me interested in working woodworking when I was teenager. And when he died, I inherited some of his. Hand tools, but I became a scientist. After that so I went to university and Graduate School, became a scientist, and followed that career path so I was introduced to woodworking back as a teenager did a little bit not much, and then got back to only when I retired. In Two Thousand Fourteen County fulltime anyway, so it's an unusual story for me and I've been taking classes and teaching a few and working a lot at barn ever since the Nice Nice. Avesta a bunch of people this. What? Is One project that you built that. You're most proud of if I if you read a dinner party and someone said. What are you into an off woodworking? What what would you show them well? Luckily, I have an answer to that Maybe three years ago, my wife suggested what what? Why don't you make us a corner cupboard for the dining room? And it would would have to be of materials and of style that matched the cabinets in the room that we're already there. So she and I worked on a design and I used sketch up to produce of a visual rendering of the design. It's okay it's not as powerful as some other software, but I use it I could learn to use it. So I we designed I built a corner cupboard. That is now finished, and it looks pretty good. Would you make it out if It's. For. With a little bit of Hemlock, also and Birch Plywood, so it's a flat panel style door. With face to face frame, not a euro style. One of the things that challenged me is it goes in the corner, so the angles are not ninety degrees, there, forty, five or one, hundred and thirty, five or sixty, two and a half sometimes, so I had to make jigs. That would allow me to glue up pieces at unusual angles. and. That was fun actually. I saved the JIGS. So my brother-in-law and his wife visiting wants recently and. They asked me the same question you did, so. We were sitting in the diner I, said well. I made that we made that. Try to include my wife and. And he said. Gosh gene you WANNA. Put your order in. And I said well. I'm not in the business of making these things for others, but I'll think about it. Yeah, so I don't know if they're going to I was expecting. You say well, here's the. Well, I could do that I suppose, but I don't want to give up the jigs. You guys have because I know that making jigs and fixtures is an art among itself. Do you guys have any classes on that We have a few, not many not enough, but we have one of our. I wouldn't call it intermediate, but beyond the basics and table saws is mostly making jigs and sleds for the table saw. And we've got so many of them now that they don't fit than we were winning a place to store our jigs. Which I think is a problem for every professional woodworker I've ever talked can be big. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so we don't have many, but we're. We are aware that that's a good thing to do. Yeah, definitely, and and the process of. You know whether you're making production work. jigs make it easier or just accuracy and repeatability. Just the art of thinking about what this jig would be. You know I mean the Internet's a huge resource. There's books I mean. But sometimes your project is very specific. And so you have to be able to design something to make it easy right, and then you have to have a place to store it if you want to keep if you if you ever want to use it again exactly. So. Tell me more about your. You got back into woodworking as A retired person rick. Now. Did you start here as? Member or as The shop. When did you call it a director? Lead I started as an ordinary member. Volunteering for one of the teams that built cabinets, so I learned how to make cabinets from the few people. who were experienced in that and it evolved from there, my being a safety monitor. We have sixty individuals who volunteer as safety monitors, and I was one of those to begin with. Safety Monitor the. There's always a safety monitor on duty. You saw him in the orange vest doing the tour. We have one always on duty during open studio times so I was one of those. And I would do two or maybe three shifts a month six hours. No sorry three hours at yeah, not not too much time. And that got me very familiar with the tools. And the safety procedures, and where things are one of the one of the chief things that a monitor get a get his. Where's the Combo Square? Where where's the bubble square? Where do you keep those so you'll learn all that stuff? I think one of the things you should get handed a map you come in, and it's like okay. There's the planes. and. We don't have that idea. Yeah, that's right exactly and then. I graduated to what we call floor managers. Who backup to, monitor. And respond to. Phone calls and give tours and help out, but so we're we're the. We're the backup for Gotcha the safety monitor so I did the Monitor Monitor and manage your Gig for awhile, and then it became clear that the then studio lead wanted to step down. He'd done two years. Yeah, and so they asked me if I would consider it and I said now. I can tell how hard he works I. Don't I. Don't think I WANNA do this. Well they didn't give up. They wouldn't take no for an answer. And eventually they persuaded me that I. Could I do what I wanted to do? Our nearly as much as I wanted to do because they help me out with the time commitment for studio. So I have a lot of help. I've got eight floor managers, and as I say sixty. Monitors Safety monitors and a steering committee of six people that help. So it's it's really a committee is run by. Committee is not run by me. Yeah, I'm the one who I'm the complete department I guess to. There's one way to put it, but it's. It's not onerous by any means so. I might spend seventy hours a month. Here. Or, doing paperwork at home, something like that. It's not an onerous task because I've got so much help now with all the supervisory time and and administration time that you're putting into the woodworking studio. Get to get out there and work. At I, know I mean I have to say that. In the first three months of being studio lead I lost all interest in woodworking. I don't understand those words. Put in that order. I was. Focused on learning the ropes and getting up to speed figuring out what I could do should do should not do. But I was completely distracted that win away in by six months. I was much more comfortable and I could take classes and teach some and do my own projects. You building anything out there right now. No, I'm not, but I just finished as I say this veneer trae. tabletops I'm getting ready for something new. I've been working on my on my guitar off on because guitars need tweaking the need. Fine Tuning I didn't this. And so I'll bring my guitar in and work on it every once in a while, and that's always fun. Because people gather on, say Oh, did you make that? Wow, that kind of stuff! That's gratifying. Something that's like wow. When I get time. I want to do this I. Don't at the moment. It's probably going to be something on my boat, so it's GonNa be interesting. Maritime Project, because as you might guess on boats, nothing is square. Nothing is round. Nothing is straight. And you guys have worked on boats. You were telling me the story about a very large boat that you had to take a window out to get into the yeah. That was extreme. Yeah, I would say we have had projects building from scratch. Nice, and those are those are usually as part of a class, so people sign up and pay not to get a boat, but to learn how to make note, of course only one boat results from the class can't. Could you imagine twelve boats? Not Going to happen, and then we'll sell the boat either to a member of the class or anybody in the community. Who is interested, so we sold. A nutshell pram that the class built last year beautiful little sailing boat twelve feet long I think. Nice boat and fellow from Seattle it came over and picked it up, so we have good luck with things. That goes right back into barn. It goes to the barn organization not to us right right goes to the goes upstairs to say, and then they find ways to feed that back to us as part of our budget, or maybe even as a supplement if we ask for it. So we've been very fortunate in the sense that if if a tool breaks. Big. Expensive stationary power tool breaks down. The Barn Board of Directors will fund repair or replacement outside of our regular budget. I mean to me having worked at university. Okay. So that was a bonus that I hadn't even thought of now. There's I mean there's an amazing array of tools out there. What's one tool out there that you WANNA get your hands on. The haven't done it yet. Well, it would have to be any of the leaves. I have never done any turning. And my wife is real interested in bowls so I'll have to take the two classes necessary to become proficient at turning bowls, but yeah, that's that's my my long term goal. Save for the next year, and I've heard that a number of times when I've asked that of woodworkers and a lot of them say the Lathe Innate you see what you can do with a chunk of wood that you start spinning. Up being beautiful wooden bowl in the, but in L. I mean. A lot of woodworking cabinetry furniture is taking a piece of wood. Cutting them all up into little pieces, putting them back together in a different form, whereas laid work and I've described this previously, it's would. It. Is I. Mean Just your? It's actually making a shape. Just one piece you know your piece ultimately might have different parts, but. On average! It's Abol spindle. joyner involved? Yeah Yeah. It's fine. It's looks like it anyway. Yeah, no, trust me I have owned a number of lathes. Have what six like you guys are. I wouldn't have. You wouldn't need no. One, working one on each hand. We're just about out of time. Is there anything that you'd like to throw out there that we haven't talked about? Let me just throw at one thing, and then I teach one of the tool safety classes. uh-huh, and what we do there is we bring in? A two by ten that we buy from some nearby lumber yard. It looks terrible. It's got Knott's. Beings and chips and checks in it in the course of the safety class. We have them millet down. Square it up true. It cut to size and it looks like. A furniture quality piece of wood That was not our intention, but it turns out that you could do that. With a crummy piece of Douglas Fir and the students are just amazed. Yeah, what we can do, and they wanna take it home I. WanNa! Keep it because I want to use it in the next class they like. They asked if they can take it home I, said sure if you WANNA, take it home, but that's one of the interesting observations. I've made in the in the course of teaching these classes. Yeah, so you've taught safety class I have yeah the number one. Number one safety. What's the number? One rule your opinion, okay well. I would say it's. US. which is hard to describe and quantify? It's not really a rule, but the idea is. You shouldn't be thinking about really anything else while you're working with these powerful stationary power tools. You need to be focused on what's going on. Right in front of you. Yeah, and that's hard to instill. That understanding is difficult to instill in people. I had a elderly woodworker. He was probably mid Seventies. Had always fingers. And he said repetition is the enemy. So he said that he'll cut if he has to cut thirty of this one piece, he'll cut five. Take hands off I like this. Step back for a minute. Refocus do five more because it's that twelfth one. Your mind starts to wander interact. Air Goes Your handed down the problem, but it is and it and it's. A So I was talking to me about. The mindfulness woodworking and being hyper focused. Every cut is the most important thing. I built a bathroom vanity just recently and I did that. I mean I literally every panel that I cut the drawer fronts every route I. Mean I thought about it and what I'm taking off and you know, and it slows. Everything down does but I think it was. It was enjoyable and and being able to do that and a lot of the tools you have to do you must. Do you know if you're turning on the laid like you were talking about? That piece of wood is spinning really fast. And I have had tools end up in my face, and it was because you know I'm going along thinking everything's good and not. Focus you know and that's that's really important. I would call what you've just described the Zim of woodwork. Yes, and that means you know, slow down. Enjoy the ride right and it's pretty clear that. Many of our students get that, but there's some that never do and all we can. They're all. Our response is to repeat that message and try to get them to the point we'll. They'll realize that it's valuable to slow down and enjoy the process. Even the process of process of making a board square exactly can be rewarded. Now, we're just about out of time so I wanted to ask you my closing question. I always closed with every woodworker. Every person that I interview. If. You could spend a day in the shop. With anybody. Alive or dead, real or even imaginary? Who would you spend with? No question would be Robert Spangler. Bainbridge island furniture maker makes mostly tables and chairs and I've been to his studio. I've taken classes from in a studio and he teaches here as well. He's a master. And anything that I hear him say. Turns out to be valuable as far as I'm concerned and he does. Things like teach a class in his studio. About Making jigs say. He handed out a little notebook to everybody and said. This is the notebook I use when I go to. People's houses when I go to furniture shows or any other place where there might be an interesting piece of furniture, and just jot down the design or to draw, sketch it out or write something down, and that kind of thought process just really resonated with me. So He's the guy I would go to. A good guy, too. He's he's very personable. Any likes coming here which is nice. And he does those things for us. Maybe I should try to get him on the show. You might yeah. He's busy man of course, but a studio is just down the road. Very close by well Mike. Thank you so much. I really appreciate your time and I'm gonNA. Let you get back to the woodshop and. We'll. We'll talk to a couple of other people and we'll just tie that all in the. Thank you so much. You're very welcome. Daniel is a pleasure, thank you. Don't Nah. Nah Nah Nah. I would like to thank you for listening to this episode. If you enjoyed it, please subscribe to the podcast. Comment or share it with someone you think would also like it. You can follow me on twitter by going to at its would podcast or on facebook at would podcast. It's would is hosted introduced by Daniel Carter of the older workshop LLC. All content is copyright to nineteen. All rights reserved. No portion of the show may be used without written permission. If you'd like to help, support this show and keep this journey going. You can go to my web page at WWW dot. It's would dot com, and check out the show merchandise where you will find t shirts, mugs, and other items designed by me with the woodworker in. I also have a patriotic account. Ricans support this show directly and earn some fun merchandise. Thank you and remember don't stop making.

Bainbridge island Bainbridge Washington Woodshop Studio Daniel Mike Seattle Barnes Jay Gaunt Mercer Island Caroline Daniel Kirk Bainbridge Washington J P Beaumont Shaba Bremerton Morgan writer University of Washington US
36 - Frank Mandarano and Maserati Club International

Cars That Matter

39:23 min | 8 months ago

36 - Frank Mandarano and Maserati Club International

"Uh. From comedian. Little did we know that we were actually becoming a community? This is a word that we would find out about thirty years. Later, we're a community when somebody would call it's like minded. We can speak the language. We were becoming a community through this newsletter that was Frank Mandarano our guest today on cars that matter. This is cars that matter. This is Robert Ross with another episode of cars that matter I'd like to welcome my guests Frank Mandarano Frank. Welcome thank you Robert Good to be here a little bit separated I'm in Los Angeles in Europe and Beautiful Mercer Island Washington which I know you've called home for about fifty years. Now I'm very envious and it's a great place to be for a car collector to it's a small island with a moat around it but yet we're eight minutes from downtown. Seattle we're eight minutes from downtown Bellevue so it's like living. In Switzerland. But at the same time having access to the urban areas to set our stage, I'd like to introduce you to our audience. Frank is a name that most guys and Gals in the Italian car community know pretty well frank. You founded the Maserati Club founded M. I. E., which is Maserati information exchange but most people notice or the clearinghouse for Maserati parts and restoration back in the eighties and early nineties founded concourse Oh Italian. Oh, you currently run the Car Guy Tour Attala. You've got such a portfolio of accomplishments an. Interest I thought we'd basically narrow things down for this conversation and this conversation should be all about Marzorati what a mark. You probably know that like the back of your hand twenty eight years I was playing with Maserati and it was a lot of fun from the very beginning well I. still do I still own a spider that's important. Car Buoyant beauty and what a rare piece of work that is, where do you even start? You talk about the House of the Trident you're like the sixth Maserati brother the missing. maserati brother. If they'd had a younger brother, you would have been one of them a lot of stories and a lot of turn of events it starts with a woman and a kiss wasn't my kiss good friend of mine here on. Mercer Island back in one thousand, nine, hundred, seventy at recently gotten out of the military and good friend of mine here in Mercer Island married a very affluent French girl. They were both very young in their twenties. The wedding was going to take place in France in the south of France in Saint Jean. Kept Sarah, which is the most exclusive area of the French Riviera twenty, six people from Mercer, island, and around flew over to France for this wedding some people compared this wedding to the trees the Nixon wedding I mean it was a very lavish affair. For example, the reception was held at the Rothschild Mansion it was incredible myself and two other guys in that one guys' lady friend there were four of us. We were of the same age and we were all three car guys. So we were going to go to this wedding. and. We were going to go over early and we're GONNA tour France and Italy and Austria and whatnot and rent a Peugeot rental car and drive through Italy. Thought when we're in Italy, why don't we go to the Freudian the MASERATI factory and we said well, how do we get in there Oh gee house that's going to work and this of course was the first time I'd ever been deadly so I had a good friend of mine who had a very prestigious autoshop classic car repair shop here in Seattle Tom Sumner I'd. Stop over to Tom, couple times a week and see was working on and whatnot. He was a Maserati fan I said, yeah. We're going to go to and we want to get into the Maserati factory and got any ideas and he said well listen I have a list of parts that I need for this mistrial that are working on. So what are you take this list of parts to the Maserati factory and tell them you on get these parts and maybe they'll give you a tour the factory with a great idea we. went off to Italy remember there's no cellphones there's no internet there's no nothing in nineteen seventy and we showed up at the Maserati factory and I remember just like it was yesterday we said we got these parts and we'd like to inquire about Oh absolutely we'll get these will take you over to the parts department fill the order sent him off to Mr Tom in Seattle and by the way can we get a tour? Oh, sure. Sure. Yeah, and so they gave us a tour that's when I became infected with the Maserati. Walking through that factory and seeing these guys. crankshafts out of solid billet steel and watching them assemble these cars on a sideways assembly-line at the time they were making the indy and they were making the last of the giblets were coming out in nineteen seventy. They were getting geared up for the Bora. In fact, they took us into this one shop. Any pointed up on a hoist and he says that's the first Bora and I looked up there and it had not been painted yet. It was body in white I looked up on this lift and there was this wild looking thing it was. Incredible to see, and after that, we were really hopped up and we went off to Maranello and Lo and behold and it was just extremely impressive to do that we meandered back up through Austria and then back through Germany and to France down to the south of France to the quotas Zula and attended the wedding, and then after the wedding we flew home so it started with a kiss that is quite an introduction to as you say, a lifelong love affair a Maserati is a different kind of car look talion automotive history, and obviously there's some. Marks that are even older than Maserati Fiat Tindal Romeo Launch Shia not by much but all these cars go back to the turn of the last century Maserati two is an old one, but it's always stood apart from the young upstarts like Ferrari nineteen forty, seven or Lamborghini, which is nineteen sixty three I mean maserati is really an old old story brand and they've always been different. They have different reputation. They have almost the different aura about them and they always attracted a different owner I always thought of Maserati says attracting gentlemen if you will not. So much a person who might be more interested in showing off you're exactly right on one would be the gentleman and the other one would be the playboy and one is flashy aggressive high revs look at me here me and the other is elegant reserved, very high quality and the man that has already arrived many perhaps generations ago there the to kind of cars completely different and I can tell you from experience Iona Daytona Spider now as well as my vignelles spider and the two are completely different. It's just amazing. The difference one is easy for the. Sea Shore for the countryside that would be the vignette spider inline six great sound, very smooth gentle car the Daytona on the other hand is for the Auto Strada. It's aggressive. It makes great noise and it's very fast. The only thing they're lacking the power during which my car had installed in nineteen, seventy nine in Italy with the addition of Zeph power steering. The Daytona is transformed into an incredible road car and performance car but the tour diametrically different completely different cars and when you think about frank separated by less than a decade in many ways. You've got two completely different schools of thought have Anneli body on your spider was a real pieces of art from what I would call the golden age of coach building. It's one of Michelangelo's finest Giovanni Nickelodeon Pen of Spider. He pinned so many cars that we don't even know about because Micheletti was a freelance he was a hired gun. He was Paladin when Peanut Farina had too many jobs on the books. They'd call up melodia and insect. Can you come over here and take a couple of these off of our hands and he'd take them and do. Them he would do them for other design companies for Tony for. Pena Freenet for free. You would do designs for these guys on the side, but he never really got his name put on those cars not many people know that he designed the tr for the triumph tr for is a Michelob designed well, it's funny. You look at his designs and I've always thought that there's just something about those very delicate gentle vendor lines and some of the edges of the top portions of the fenders on all is cars where you can really see A. Micheletti touch but certainly, even Ali spiders one of the classics that's a rare car to those. They make they only made plus or minus. Two, hundred, thirty, nine something like that. That's definitely some rare air and I've got just a great one I drove a twelve hundred miles in six days with twenty other guys from Seattle over to Idaho and into Montana and back and it just ran like a Swiss watch just a great car that's fantastic I wanna make one comment about Al. Theory Maserati and his brothers there's certain people in the car industry like Bugatti. Was a designer and engineer he was an incredible man, but he can't be compared with Ferrari. Ferrari was a salesman Ferrari. Hire people to do as engines hired drivers to drive his cars. He hired designers to do the design work. So he was really an orchestrator and good at what he did a mega maniacal conductor. He was the Toscanini of the automotive world but the MASERATI brothers were true engineers and innovators in racers to and racers to, and they were followed by another great man launch Vincenzo Lonzo was another great engineer a man and founder in the air that mentality those kinds of people is. Pattie, a Ghani is the natural heir to body and the MASERATI brothers. He's a man designs his own work engineers, the cars, just an amazing individual not everybody you founded car companies can say that typically they were orchestrators not necessarily innovators of just that really brilliant point and a fine point to that really calls these special personalities out as being really the rare gems the idea renaissance man as it were, and the role of the automobile is a very rare occurrence. It is rare in the mouth Soroti brothers when they ran out of money which they always did they sold off the company to or Z. Industrious kind of like Ford being sold the Bill Gates. He's done a car guy but he's got the money. So yours these took over Maserati but the engineering staff that was still there was senior Alfieri Julia L. Ferry he carried on the work and the vision of the Master Ati brothers that's right and they of course went on to found Pasta Day left the company after a ten year contract on the day the contract was up, they left I, guess they didn't enjoy being. Part of bureaucracy and they used their hands on. But Alf theory carried on and you can see well area was more or less the father of that thirty, five, hundred GT with right. So L. Theory in opinion, one of his greatest achievements besides the birdcage was the to fifty F., the engineering department was made of perhaps three guys maybe five at the most and these guys were young much like the youngsters who went on to create the first Lamborghinis it was twenty somethings that. Really created the brilliant push forward in terms of engineering and design I. Guess what our audience should know is that Maserati really was not a maker of road cars over they made a few after the war but for the most part, it was all about racing. There were all about racist but you talk about this to fifty f. and the three hundred and four fifties. Those were race cars they were race cars and Alfie area built that two fifty F. and Fangio drove it. And it was perhaps the greatest race in history was when Fon Joe One, eighteen, fifty, seven yeah. The nurburgring and Mr was a personal friend of mine and in fact, he was our first guest at Concourse Otano in Nineteen ninety-one. We flew him and his wife over and he was honored at Concord. So Italian along with Tom Charter and Al Theory. Told me the story personally, he said that the wind at the nurburgring was not a result of the car but of the man it. Was a testimony to the man Fond Joe and he said after the race, they brought that to fifty f. back to the factory and the next day Fangio came to the factory any met with Giulio Algeria Mr Alfieri took Fangio's hand. He says come with me come with me and he took them back in the factory and he showed him the car and he said look at this the complete suspension was blocked solid. All the BUSHINGS had frozen what Mr outfitter said what Julia. Said was at this man literally drove this car to the absolute end of its life. It was completely blocked. Everything was completely used and it couldn't be used. One more kilometer couldn't go. That is a fantastic story a little bit of insight that certainly I've never heard of the most people will never get to hear from that to fiftieth during that same period fifty-seven, they had thirty five hundred gt on the drawing board and touring. Milan. was coming up with the COACHWORK and that engine. Was not the same engine, but the architecture was similar, but it'd been de tuned with a chain instead of gears L. Fury took that engine and made the next generation which had a wet sump and was chain driven and put it in the thirty five, hundred gt at the time he told me he was spending at least two weeks a month in the UK and Germany and what he was doing was he was going to all the vendors of Jaguar and sourcing parts and. So, he was sourcing the ran, he was sourcing the transmission from Zeph. Rear end was a Salisbury Right Salisbury British front suspension girling brakes smiths instruments had eventually diabolical Lucas fuel injection eventually yes. In my opinion, one of his great mistakes but at the time I was ahead of its time that's right. It was so he came up with thirty five hundred GT which turned out to be very successful at thirty, five, hundred. It's kind of like Rodney Dangerfield it just doesn't get the respect. Maserati for series production car. They sold a pretty good number of them. It lasted for a long time in the market and it really wasn't impeccable piece. It really is amazed that it hasn't achieved a greater status in the collector car market. One of the reasons is that they languished for so long and were in poor condition. So they didn't sell for very much money when they were stored they weren't restored correctly and so the market was very kind to them but now they're being restored completely incorrectly. They're coming back I. Always thought that the seminal moment from a collector's point of view was when they made the decision to use the inline six. Instead of a V twelve I would love to have been in that meeting when they decided in line six instead of the V twelve from a collector point of view I think that makes all the difference in the world. If you had a twelve cylinder in that thirty, five hundred and Vignon spider in the mistrial coupe and spider I think that you'd see the prices skyrocketed absolutely quadruple the price of what they are. Now I think so but we have what we have and they're great cars for what they are certainly they. Had Litany of wonderful inline sixes came after the thirty, five, hundred, both the coupe and your urban Ali spider. The Mistral of course was one of the great designs and I look at a mistrial and I say to myself car still looks modern and still looks good of course that was the last of the inline sixes of there's you've owned those and certainly restored every plenty of own plenty of them. In fact, I had a Mistral spyder Berko five seven at drove thousands of miles up and down the West Coast and my wife and I when we were younger, we would camp out when you're young, you can do those things what about the Seabrook I have seen brings I've. Restored several of them and I've sold many of them. They're built quite well because there have been body car probably done by Micheletti. These are funny because just when you think you don't like a particular model and then one comes in it's really nice and you take a for Dr you go. Hey, these are nice and suddenly you're convert I've had some serious to see brings. These are spectacular cars if you get one that's sorted out and really put together well, or it's a very original running, well, you can change your minds but that's really funny. For example, the Indy, a lot of people don't particularly care for the indy because it's trying to be a Ghibli with two extra. Seats. But I'm telling you of the cars I restored we restore performed major maintenance on over four hundred Maserati but I'd get an Indian there and you start taking apart my God. It's really built. Well, when you open up the rear hatch, it's all stainless steel lined not to pick on Ferrari, but you wouldn't see that on a Ferrari. Well, that's interesting about the because it is kind of the one overshadowed by the Ghibli which might be the most gorgeous Maserati ever. Man I had a Ghibli Spider. It was sold new by Mar talk and everybody knows Ron Tonkin. But not many people know his brother, marv Tonkin and Marb was card your down in Portland as well as Ron. Marvelous a Maserati guy he had the maserati franchise in the seventies and Ron had the Ferrari franchise I had that give with spider for I don't know fifteen or eighteen years it was an incredible car. I remember driving this car up to Vancouver BC with the fitted hardtop on it in the blowing snow must've been in February going up to Vancouver with the wicha wipers going and the heater. On and driving the Ghibli spider when I bought it had fifteen thousand original miles on it and when I sold it thirty nine thousand miles get some good use out of that I. Try my cars now was that a four point seven, four, point nine, four, point seven, five, speed air conditioning power steering. It was the perfect car the only knock I have on it is it was to civilize. I've heard that complaint about Gabe lease and never broke. It was always in good taste always ran and started in the air conditioning always worked and you couldn't call it sporty. It wasn't a sporty car it was GT coz grand touring car and it just worked great. One of the biggest mistakes of my life I ended up selling that car to buy a new. Forty two, hundred GT and his fighter I had a grand sport which came out in two thousand six at the end of that era but the first one. So forty two hundred does work gorgeous cars I bought one of the first in the state of Washington and I saw my Ghibli spider to buy it biggest mistake of my life it went to Japan however, my son has a first. Right of refusal to buy back. So I have a legal document that says, if you ever GonNa sell this, you gotTa Call Up Tony Maranto and offered to him at whatever price you get for it. So I'm hoping that one day Tony or I get a call and I'll get that car back one of these days. Well, that would be a great homecoming because that is a very special card. To, take a short break right back. Welcome to life done better listen to the weekly episodes where supermodel health coach Jill Deyang talks to some of the world's most inspiring women in health and wellness. It's the place for all the UNICORNS who strive to create a life on their own terms join us to explore, discover and create a life done better together. Listen and subscribe from Kurt Co Media Media for your mind. Welcome back to the matter. Frank tell us about him I e because that was a big important part of any maserati owners life back in the day. So we got back from Europe, and now I'm all hopped up on Italian cars and Maserati, and I'm coming home to mercer. Island and I drive down through the village and I'm going pass the Shell gas station and I see something read in back of the show's gestation and I pull in and it's a thirty five hundred GT with wire wheels. I. Asked the guy what's going on with the car and he says, yeah, it's owned by a local. Doctor and do you think he wants to sell it? Yeah. Knowing wants to sell it. So long story short. I. Ended up buying a car in a strange coincidence. I met my future wife at ladies night at the local Bar Bellevue and the next day I invited her out to lunch and I took the thirty five hundred GT showing off and I pick her up for lunch and she's impressed and I'm impressed and everything's going great and I dropped her back off at work, and then I come back to Mercer Island as I'm coming across the floating bridge I hear what sounds like a diesel got The main bearings went down on the Maserati, the old Lucas fuel injection puked gas into the oil. Suddenly you go from having Ken Courts to twelve to thirteen courts and Finns out the oil and you spin the rod bearings and so the car went in the shop it was there for a year. It's amazing how some of these old cars can have a birthday in. A shop isn't it? Well, I ended up taking it to my friend. Tom, sumner he made it happen and it was in nine months year it was done in a done right? Well, during this period, I was looking for parts and Tom would say I need some main bearings on these gaskets and I need this I need that like an idiot I was calling up. Do, you have any main bearings for Maserati. Now you're crazy. I eventually ended up with Bob Grossman in New York who had parts and got my car fixed and I thought to myself there must be other Maserati owners in the same position there must be guys out there looking for parts and information and they can't find anything for the hell of it I came up with this Maserati information exchange ran an ad in road and track was literally ads in the back that everybody used to read back then they were. Exactly in it said Maserati Information Exchange newsletter twenty five bucks a year the first month two guys sent me twenty five bucks and the second month. Another three guys sent me twenty five bucks and then the next month another four guys and then my future wife, she could type really well, and at the time I couldn't we type up this newsletter and we'd Xerox copy articles and things, and we had a little four five page newsletter. We'd search hemmings and we'd searched road and track and competition press for Maserati cars for. Sale and we put them in the newsletter. So you didn't have to buy all these other magazines. You could just get our newsletter and it was like a consolidation of parts and cars that were everywhere around at the end of the year we had like forty fifty members at the end of two years. We had another forty fifty members just slowly started growing, and then we began sewing manuals, parts manuals, and we'd go out to the copy company and we'd photocopy manuals and we'd go next door to the Pizza Hut and Order a pizza and we were selling manuals for Twenty Bucks Twenty Five Bucks and people were sending US checks. It was priceless information back then and you think about affirmative Franken back then a guy had to work hard to old an exotic car. It took a lot of work took networking took all kinds of stuff that today we take for granted little. Did we know that we were actually becoming a community? This is a word that we would find out about thirty years later. We're a community when somebody would call it's like minded. We can speak the language you have a Maserati. Oh, great. I've got one. We're area we were becoming a community through this newsletter. So one day I'm driving to work and I hear this ad and the ad says just send us your credit card and we'll send it right out to you and I thought to myself credit card what a good idea prior to that people are sending us checks and then we'd send the manuals. Now. The guy called says I need a borough manual owner's manual parts manual and I said Yeah we could send it to you. Today can mean your credit card number and we'll send it out today. So they gives credit card number would send into it doubled our business in one day, and then the guy would say, what do you have any once wipers? You're GonNa part the light bulb went off I went down to Tacoma Washington. ABC Pontiac was the last known maserati distributor. Maserati didn't have dealers in those days they had with called distributors. A distributor would be in like three states and we bought out all their spare parts in that purchase was a little booklet. It was a booklet that if you're anywhere in the world and you need service for your Maserati, here's your local distributor and it showed all the distributors in the US. There's about seven of them and it showed all the distributors in and all the distributors in Italy and France Thailand and so. I started writing letters to these distributors and ask him, and if they want to sell their spare parts now remember this was seventy six Maserati had left the US market in the early Seventies. That's right. If you wanted America or a borough or whatnot or cam scene, you had to get it from overseas. They've gone into bankruptcy in nineteen, seventy, five and D to Moscow had bought out of bankruptcy because the production was stopped for a few months. The cars were just trickling out. So nobody wanted anything to do with Maserati especially the old cars we were able to by the German distributor auto conic in Munich container load of parts. These are all pre seventy parts. These are all thirty five, hundred, Mistral, Bora, camps, Mirror, what we call the classic Gt. Car, Parts. We bought the Spanish distributor, an Auto Peres. In Barcelona, we bought the French distributor out of Paris. We bought the UK distributor two containers of parts. We bought a Saudi Arabian distributor and we were buying. These parts, twenty cents on the dollar. In the US, we bought the New York distributor. We bought the Texas distributor. We bought we bought Cavalier in San Francisco. The final purchase was Maserati automobiles. In Baltimore the USA distributor from one, thousand, nine, hundred, seventy, five, seventy, six to one, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety got out in one thousand, nine, hundred, ninety, we bought them in December seventh nineteen ninety-four and that deal was done between Mr de Tomasso, his attorney and our attorney it was touching go. There was several times the deal was off and we just said fine that deals off because we want everything he didn't want to give us this. He didn't want to give us that typical de Tomaso Nitpick and I figured out that my claim to fame has nothing to do with concourse. Oh Italian, or Marzorati. It has everything to do with. I'm the only guy and I challenge anybody to prove me wrong I'm the only guy to ever do business with Tomasa who did not get. I Carroll Shelby once told me at Congress telliano when I was talking to him about tomorrow. So He Still owes me one hundred thousand dollars. Well. They can be duke it out upstairs or down there wherever they are right now because those two were definitely tough. So that's how we ended up with all these parts and we moved into a larger facility at Sixteen Thousand Square Foot facility, and we inventoried all these parts of anybody's been my old m warehouse and shop. They'll remember that it was as clean as a hospital and every part was marked with block letters on the shelf in the right category in the right place and nothing was on the floors kind of sounds like a dream job for me I had four part guys receiving calls and a guy that shipping and receiving pack. And parts of Settimana show all the parts when I restored cars. So I hired some mechanics, it took a long time to end up, but we finally ended up with four mechanical technicians who are great three upholstery people with a sheet metal guy from New Zealand who'd come up for six months and knock everything out and go back home a mud guy that just did the bodywork in the muddying and the blocking and a guy that did nothing but disassemble and assemble, and so we are restoring cars and servicing cars and bringing a man bring 'em out up until the point where the market crashed in nineteen ninety talk about a roller coaster moment at two. Hundred Thousand Dollar car became a fifty thousand dollar car overnight the majority of our core business with buying and selling cars that was where you really made good money, and in fact, the last two years of the restoration business we were only working on our own cars. I'd gotten rid of the customers because the customers were hassle. We had a saying if it wasn't for those customers, you could really get something done but the biggest difference was the Prophet I'll never forget I purchased a Mistral spyder for something like fifty grand seventy grant and I brought it into the shop and I said, yeah throw some wire wheels on it. Let's tune it and the guy. Said needs a new exhaust throw new exhaust on it put some new wire wheels on it while you're at it let's do the brakes endless service it just abou- flush breaks flush the cooling system, put an a convertible top on it and Oh, what the hell that's reloaded didn't paint it with his buffed it kind of freshened up. So to speak detailed digital -partment and I sold it for one hundred, forty, thousand dollars of course, the market was going up right and so I'm sitting at my desk, I had computer printouts at that time the technicians when they worked on the car at the end of every day, they would write up three point five hours. Are? In. Our breaks do this do that it keeps track of everything they did those worksheets would go to my secretary and then she typed up and it'd be three copies of your white yellow and pink and pink would file and the white would go to the customer and the other one would go shop file I paid my guys at the time I paid them about twenty five, twenty, seven dollars per hour, which was a lot of money I was charging fifty seven dollars an hour for technician our house. Paying my tax about twenty seven dollars an hour including their salary the benefits vacation time insurance you needed to find your Prophet and the Prophet on that car by the time it was done in. Yeah. So I'm looking and it cuts to the bottom line and it shows much profit per hour. It was a hundred and twenty nine dollars an hour per technician after I've factored in the sale and I went holy crap. What am I doing working on customer's cars from that moment on we started working on our own Cars that were good up until the point where January nineteen ninety when the market fell apart, and at that time I was holding some cars and let me tell you the key in a down market is to drop your price dramatically at first just be done with it take your loss quickly because I had a Ghibli spider and I think at the time there were two, hundred, forty, thousand dollars two, hundred, fifty, thousand. So I put mine out there at two hundred and twenty other guys had their cars for two. Hundred then I dropped the price to one eighty are guys are out there at one sixty I was on my knees thanking God that day the Guy Paid One, hundred, twenty, thousand for that gives fighter I was into for to forty, and of course, today those cars were up above a million for a while and of course now it's softer again but still I guess a good spiders probably worth eight hundred and change you're exactly right on. So about the time of Nineteen Ninety, the Car Marco is falling apart and. Then the concourse. Oh, was started to grow and have legs but then we just focused on parts. We closed down the shop I laid everybody off on the surface. It sounds really bad but they all took them off because these were top notch technicians and they had two or three job offers they could go anywhere. They took a month off and then they went to work someplace else. Oh, you think about those parts that you had back then they were just parts but today that stuff is unobtainable stainless window. Trim for thirty five, hundred of little grills and doodads and surrounds and things for some of those cars. What we did is we never throughout the last part, we never sold the last part where these boards, these sheets of plywood that were painted gray and we had every water pump on the board disassembled. So he had the original water pump, the original seal, the original bearings, original gaskets. So we never threw out the last of any original part we kept it so you could reverse engineer it then of course today. You can do that easily but you need the original part to work with you need the original part and you can't reproduce a reproduced part. So we were reproducing we had the complete market. We were really the only ones in North America really we started reproducing gaskets we reproduced all the gaskets reproduce valves in Argentina. We reproduced glass in Italy we went to L. Ring in Germany, and we bought their complete stock Avia head gaskets. I said how many have left and they sent me a print out you know some. Of the twelve hundred gaskets I said, we'll take them all I want to Zif in verdict Shefrin and it went in and talked to him. I. Said I'd like to talk to you about buying your old s five seventeen parts from the thirty, five hundred and the mistrial, and they said if you'd have been here last week, you COULDA had them. We threw it all out. They threw it all out. Unbelievable. They said a dump truck load of thirty, five, hundred gt as five seventeen parts. I was just sick. Amazing. We have to take a quick break. We'll be back in just a moment. A moment of your time. A new podcast from Kirk? COMEDIA-. Currently, twenty one years old and today I like magic extended from her fingertips down to the. Third Yourself, because the world needs you and every do that asked about me was ready to spit on my drinks. Fingers were facing feel like your purpose in your worth is really being stopped me from. Piano she buys walkie-talkies wonders to whom she should give the second. Humans we did we never will just find one of rock climbing is that he can only focus on what's right now. And so are American life. Begins. We may need to stay apart but let's create together available on all podcast platforms. Submit your piece that co dot com slash a moment of your time. Welcome. Back cars that matter. Let's pick it up. Frank. These really were just old used cars at a certain point in time right before they started to get collectible and thanks to guys like you and the enthusiasts that kind of support the mark there have been a number of old cars were preserved. Of course today it's a whole different story I mean whatever vagaries were seen in the market. Do the current pandemic and the soft Ning that we've seen over the last couple of years the classic car market is still a pretty sound market. These cars now are all considered, very, very desirable. The top quality cars will remain top quality and always be desirable. The lesser known cars that the market hasn't treated. Well, we'll kind of be there they'll just kind of limp along you could put. Into that category in the Indian the Mexico camp sins are drawing a certain attention thirty, five, hundred, zero drawing a certain attention certainly the thirty five, hundred spider anything with the top down and is going to do well, if you're going to predict the market, what you want is limited production and you want top quality I think those kind of cars will always do well, but you shouldn't buy the car because you think you're gonNA, make money on it. You should buy the car and enjoy it for what it is because you never know the next day you're dead you got to live life every day if money is not the object, then you WanNa Ghibli spider four point nine the. Mistral. Spyder four leader, not many of them made but Viviana Spider is hard to be that such sweet car. Now, your core is restored to original specification. Yes. It left. The factory was ordered by a woman out of Rome and her husband own two, five, thousand GT, and she ordered it in February twenty fourth and it wasn't delivered until may fifth thank took three months to build. She ordered it just perfect. She got five speed from the factory. Why are wheels carburetors Cognac leather with what you and I would call British. Racing Green the Italians called Verde schoolgirl I think only three, thirty, five, hundred, square painted dark green. Yeah. I'm very fortunate I feel almost vindicated for selling my giblets wider. With two cars, I'm good with the Daytona and the spider at one time I had fifteen zarate's and I think about six or seven prototypes will that's interesting. You had mentioned that because Maserati for all the Ballyhoo of the Great Ferrari portfolio with all their prototypical cars in their small production runs Maserati, produce some of the most beautiful prototypes and some of the most interesting cars throughout the fifties. And sixties I mean some really wild stuff the Mexico I owned number zero, zero, one affreux prototype and what was really unique about it in addition to being a prototype and having zero zero one serial number was it had the first Production v eight engine in it when the Italian engineers came to my shop and he put a flashlight down and looked at the engine number he was blown away. All and it's the number one. It's the first production engine. It was unbelievable and also the Tony Prototype by Franco Sky owning he did the alphabets. Yeah. Yes. In the first Lamborghini GT, the one that was so wild and wooly that nobody wanted one of my favorite designers Sky Yoni, was wild I understand was quite strange character to Mr. Tony. Said when I was talking about Franko he only he said he was impossible sky was impossible to do anything with Mr. Tony's time to fame was he was an He was a grand orchestrator didn't design any cars, but he could put people together. He could attract the right talent and he attracted. Gandolfini any attractive Jaro Sky Yoni Workforce Tony he said he would show up in the morning and a limousine with two women on his arm wearing a Tuxedo and half drunk say, are you going to work today? He'd say I don't know maybe any come in any do some work, but he just was amazing creator. Well, when you think about some of those splint buoyant cars from the era, they certainly have signature on them and then you look at the work of jeters Yaro and. then. The younger or again Dean you realize how sober they were despite some of their experimental design. So Francona. An innovator leader came before them and I think it's easy to look at the next table at the restaurant and see what kind of Napkin they're drawing on and then take that another step further. That's a good analogy because he really was the guy that kind of defined the look of the fens and the flares and stuff that really defined the look of cars for a decade and a half when you think about the history Maserati clearly their resurgence in market which started in the mid two, thousand, the reintroduced. Report Day, and then Ghibli which is a Ghibli only in name, but it's nonetheless a very popular car than their grand juries, and now, of course, with their MC twenty, they've got a real sports car again and it's totally engineered and built in motor, which is the first time in a long time. The most recent cars are all made in early. OSCO in Taran the SUV is made in the old Fiat plant in Lingotto from what I understand the new MC twenty has engineered and Mota and made a motor. So I don't know where they're making the engine. I. Don't know all the complete details I can't believe. They're making that engine and motor I don't think. So they're not set up to do that. They might be could've done the engineering there because the last time I was there they took us into the engineering department where they were making the engines. I couldn't believe that they actually took us in there and let see this. That's unusual. It was very unusual probably working on that MC twenty inch and there it was. It was on the dyno's running and they were over there assembling and disassembling we didn't know what it was but I'll bet you that's what it was. It's a seriously high output V six. Yeah. Very I'll. It has some very innovative engineering aspects. It'll be interesting to see where Maserati goes with that as a kind of a springboard for their new generation of automobiles. Now, they're going to be owned by Peugeot but from what I understand the majority of this new company, the Peugeot FCA company the majority of the shares will be owned by FCA and controlled by the family the Yeli call him. The Kid John Elkin is going to be the chairman of the board of this new Peugeot Fiat Chrysler operation, which owns Alpha and Maserati. We certainly loved the cars there is nothing more captivating than a great old Italian sports car whether it's a Ferrari or Maserati or Lamborghini or Alpha or Shia whatever it is truly remarkable things and we're very lucky to have him but whose designed the Carne. For me the design is important, I see the coach builders also in transition right now I see great disruption taking place in the coach building field out of that disruption is you're gonNA find new smaller. Nimble. Companies with very brilliant guys running them and the big coach builders going away or the companies are bringing a lot of them in house for he doesn't hire anybody anymore they do. It in house Maserati and house everybody's house. Now tell design was purchased by Volkswagen it's more or less than house I don't know how long that's going to survive. I just don't know there's just so much disruption going on I think it's probably safe to say that the great luminaries of automotive design, the names that we've been talking about whether it's the Sketti or can Dini or Jaro or. Any of those individuals, those names are going to go into the history books and you're going to see new names coming. You have to have innovators the days of committee design I think they're gone forever pure design can happen from one mind. Then the committee will evolve it. Just I think that we're not going to go to. We used to twenty years ago. Now, we don't go to jail, but there's another one to you go to another guy, there's Umberto there's another guy doing something and then you go to these guys and they're doing something it's like whack a mole when this one goes down to others off over here just when I think that my car guy tour is going to go like, where are we going to do then I go? There's always too. Many places to see and not enough time to see him. You guys pop up what a great conversation frank really appreciate your time. There's so much more to talk about. So let's have you back on the show and we're GONNA talk about Italy and all the people and places you've discovered there. Thanks for joining US Robert Thank you. It's been a pleasure talking about this stuff and sharing my experiences and I look forward to speaking to you again. Thanks, Frank Mandarano for joining us today on cars matter. Come back next time as we continue to talk about the passions that drive us and the passions we drive. This episode of Cars Matter was hosted by Robert Ross produced by Chris Porter edited by Chris Porter Sound Engineering by Michael Kennedy theme song by Celeste and Eric Dick. Additional music and sound Chris Porter please like subscribe and share this podcast. Robert. Ross thanks. Kurt comb media. Media for. Your mind?

Maserati Frank Mandarano Frank Italy Maserati Club US Tony Maranto Seattle Maserati Information Exchange France Ferrari engineer Frank Mandarano Germany Mr Tom Mercer Island Mercer Daytona Europe A. Micheletti
The East Side Killer- Charmer Part 2

True Crime: By The Book

25:17 min | 1 year ago

The East Side Killer- Charmer Part 2

"Fill a better for me. Is Top priority mentally physically and emotionally. They all worked together talking about the things that we all may experience. But just just don't quite know how to say really opens up some new dialogue amp perspective. That's the goal here. Since you gotta see yourself a little bit better and Dan leave yourself alone because there are other people who see you for exactly who you are and Esau good we stay elevated here but even Dr. JEKYLL had a dark side. I mean who doesn't love a good story to make the hair on their own standup. I started to walk a little faster just figuring if it was probably probably someone trying to scare me like a hazing but this did it feel right night. Owl is the hang out for those horace chance looking for a little bump in the night Monday motivation Friday frights. We'd like balance here in the brain. PODCAST has it all take flight. Sleep tight please be aware that true crime by the book me discuss topics sure opinions and use language that could be disturbing. Were offensive the some listeners. Listener discretion is advised Tidings and salutations bibliophile ably overages. Thank you for joining me on true crime by the book. Where every other Tuesday we meet up to talk real crime one page at a time? And I'm your host Tasha Pierce and today we will be concluding our discussion of the book charmer the true story of a ladies man and his victims by Jack Olsen last week we learned Ed George Walter Field. Russell Jr. grew up on Mercer Island. He was a troublemaker. All his life and his petty crimes were little more than a nuisance. Over the years Georgia's crimes had begun escalating his burglaries taking on perverse voyeuristic thome. He began to study the movements of the Green River killer with a little too much in intensity entity. He spoke of Ted Bundy with a sort of reverence. He read a book by a woman about Bundy and he raged about how she knew. Nothing thing about Bundy. How dare she judge his hero? He pondered out loud about why there weren't any black serial killers. Which of course was not not true when we left off he had ramped up to physically abusing mindy his girlfriend of five month? Today we will find find out how much further George ultimately goes in time. Mindy got sick of Georgia's abuse. He assaulted her in ransacked her apartment. She reported it and he was arrested. February Twelfth Nineteen Ninety and was soon out of Mundy's life for good so he still had the black angers though but there was a waitress. GB The dare to spot his bullshit and she was very vocal about it. George began to harass attempt to intimidate her. She wanted him to be banned from entering the nightspot but the owner was reluctant. Reluctant because of Georgia's popularity with the regulars after talking with the female friend who also was a mercer island cop. GB GBI learn that George had a warrant out for his arrest on a parole violation the next time he showed up at angus she tip the police. They dispatched a female black officer. Who made the arrest and we already discussed how George felt about black women and this was the tipping point for George? He had been humiliated by a woman for the last time now. After threatening joining the life of GB George was eighty-six from Angus. The ban was initially for two weeks but after an employee meeting the band became permanent. It George knew exactly who most wanted him to be barred from the Angus that knowledge further fueled his extreme misogyny Rajini. Marianne Poll Reich was twenty seven years old. She moved to Bellevue to study computers and was working as a telemarketer. She shared an apartment with a friend. Maryann had a strict Christian upbringing and she was kind of relishing her newfound freedom. She began frequenting knots nightspot not the Black Angus. But a place called Papa. Guy Yose us there. She was SIP drinks with France chat with other party years and danced the night away on Friday. June twenty third one thousand nine hundred ninety. She got dressed and hit the club with a couple of her girlfriends. Liquor flowed music played and dancing ensued in fact Marianne had personally requested. Mc Hammer Song. You can't touch this at least five times in. If you're around in the nineties eighties you know what that song be to a party right. So she was having a lot of fun. And I'm pretty sure there are more than a few of you can relate to the club scene in the nineties. There came a point that her friends were ready to go home. That was about nine thirty that night but Marianne was not ready to call it a night. She still had a long island iced tea in front of her and she wanted to finish her drink so they left without her. That would be the last time they saw. Marianne the an poll Reich alive. Now there's a little speculation involved in determining the time line from that point on according to a toxicology energy report. She was highly intoxicated. It's thought there she was offered a ride home was attacked in vehicle. She was riding in her. Cause of death was manual strangulation. There was blunt force trauma to the head by a heavy object and she has sustained other injuries. He's from being savagely beaten. She had also been raped after death. Her body was disposed of near a dumpster stir behind a black angus. She was posed nude with her legs. Crossed arms folded there was a pine cone placed in her hand and and a plastic lid covering one eye. A bartender who left work at the Angus reported there was definitely nothing near the dumpster at three thirty. Am that would mean if the perpetrator put Maryam's body out there around four eight pm or later now. Bellevue had a very low crime rate. So this murder was bizarre. For number of reasons was a particularly heinous crime in the staging of the body just added an extra layer of depravity where there is staging. There is often a message but what was the message. Pitch and who was the intended recipient to police began their investigation by retracing Marianne steps from nine thirty pm when her friends left at the club until four am they spoke to patrons bartenders. And bouncers at Papa Guy owes many of whom stated that they were not sure if they had seen her or if she left with anyone those who had remember seeing her weren't sure when she left one person wanted to know you know what happened to her and if the police had any leads the police had hoped to get some ideas from the last place they knew Maryam was seen alive. They they had zero leads to share with the public. Now as the Maryanne Paul Right case continues to unfold. The unthinkable happened. There was another woman murdered on August. Ninth police recall to the home of Carol beef. Jeff Carroll was thirty four years old and the mother of two daughters. She was a divorce say but had a boyfriend. Carol was a bartender at the Kuzina Machina restaurant. Carol got home shortly after two. Fifteen am after her shift. She had spin spin an hour or two chatting with her boyfriend than another hour with the free and talking about her upcoming vacation plans at four thirty. Am Her daughter Heard Movement in the house and saw the light from a flashlight. She assumed it was her mother's boyfriend. Mike and went back to sleep. At eight thirty. The girls got up and notice. Their mother wasn't awake. One daughter went to her mom's door and knocked to no response. She tried to open the door but it was locked she then went outside and around to the sliding door which was open upon entering the bedroom. She was confronted with the horrific sight. Now this description is extremely graphic traffic but I thought it important to detail. The scene that this poor chow walked in on Carol was lying on her bed with her legs spread spread. She was noon except for a pair of red heels. There was a rifle with the barrel inserted in her vagina. The stock between her legs her left arm was bent up towards her hand. Her right arm down towards Sir Hip. There were a pillow in a plastic bag over her face. The perpetrator hit smeared blood down both of her legs. She was beaten with some type of weapon about her head and face. The weapon was not found the assailant. It need and punched carol so violently that her ribs were broken and her liver was lacerated. She had no defensive wounds wounds which means she was blitz attacked while she slept. This is the condition the monster who had killed her left her for her children trying to find her tier fight. Daughter Reese from the room and called her father. Her father came over and looked at the scene. Then call the police police. When the police arrived in saw the level of violence coupled with the stagey there was a sense of dread? What were the chances that the murders of these two women weren't related a town that has so few murders that it doesn't even have a homicide? Division suddenly has two bodies in zero league well since it appeared if there was a repeat offender on the loose police began looking at what the victims had in common. There really didn't seem to be any similarities. Besides them both being white in in pretty was killed in her home and the other there was apparently killed somewhere else in dumped it. A popular hangout. The police began to interview friends family and acquaintances in in order to spot a pattern or a suspect incredibly before they got very far with the beef case there was yet another murder order of a pretty young white woman. And trae Levine was twenty four years old and lived alone in in a basement apartment on August thirtieth. She got home from meeting her boyfriend at about one thirty eight. Am she apparently did some packing backing for a trip. She and her boyfriend had planned then prepared for bed at approximately five eight. Am Her landlord. Who lived upstairs ears got up to let his dog out? The dog went ballistic as soon as it got to the door and that was when the landlord spotted configure lurking outside the home. The figure appear to be that of a man and when he saw the man of the house he took off running. The landlord initially gave chase but then went home to phone police. The police came performed a search of the property but didn't check on Andreas Andrea's apartment now the following Monday. The landlady noticed an odor coming from Andhra as apart. She insert certainly apartment and was shocked by what she saw Andrea was on the bed with her legs spread and she had a sex toy inserted in her mouth and the book more joy of sex tucked under her left arm. Her right arm was extended above her shoulder. She had sustained a ferocious attack being cut or stabbed two eight hundred sixty three times. She was also beaten about the head with a metal bar. Now we've got three murders three different victims. No nothing tying these victims together except how they were pose at the end of their murder. So what makes a killer. Polls victim psychology today. States that F. B. I. Profiler may encounter helter deliberate alterations of the crime scene or the victim's body position at the scene of the murder if these alterations are made for the purpose confusing or otherwise misleading criminal investigators then they are called stagey and they are considered to be part of the killers. Mo On the other hand if the crime scene alterations only serve the fantasy needs of the offender then they are considered part part of the signature and they are referred to as posing sometimes. A victim's body is posed to send a message to the police or the public for example. Jack The ripper. Sometimes polls his victims new bodies with their legs spread apart to shock. Onlookers lookers and the police in Victorian Inc in the crimes. We're discussing the posing seems to be part of the killers fantasy Z.. He isn't attempting to point a finger in another direction. He is achieving a perverse thrill and attempting to shock the unfortunate soul who stumbles stumbles upon his work and to punish or degrade the victim the Posey the frenzied attack the type of victim. There was little doubt that there was a serial killer on the loose and he was escalating. Bellevue police knew they were out of their league on this one so they call Seattle police for an assist. What did these victims have in common after much investigation affiliation in investigating the lives of these three victims it became apparent that the only similarity outside of their race was was they all frequented bill views nightspots? Marianne was last seen at a nightspot. Carol worked as a bartender. Tender and sometimes met friends at the Black Angus and Andrea was known to hang out from time to time herself in two of the Crimes Times. A home invasion was a key component from that police gathered at the PERP was a skilled cat burglar. There were small items items jewelry taken in both home invasions in Carroll was known to keep Crown Royal Bags with silver dollars in other change and I don't know if everybody is acquainted with what a crown royal bag is crown. Royal is a type of whiskey and it has it comes unlike a purple bag with gold writing on it in the bag has a little drawstring and a Lotta people myself included have finished a bottle of crown royal uh-huh and then use that bag to store other things in in this case in this case. Carol used that that bag to hold change. Well those bags of change were missing as will now sexualize crime expert offered a profile the killer that included him being a white male but when local cops heard of the break ins and petty thefts they had one suspect in mind signed on January tenth. Nineteen ninety-one George. Walter Field Russell. Junior was arrested on outstanding warrants. When he was interviewed by police he was asked about the homicide signs during those interviews? He divulged that he was acquainted. It with all three victims three victims who seemingly had nothing in common suddenly linked to one individual. This was not a coincidence. It also wasn't a coincidence that the day Marianne poll right was killed. George had quote unquote borrowed a friend's truck to make a quick run when he kept the truck until after five the next morning to Fran was pretty pissed install and not only that but it reeked inside the truck. George told him that he had thrown up to explain the smell but the friend just I went and got his truck beat after George Chronic back there was also no coincidence. George had been to Andrea Levine's home previously obviously with her boyfriend then he came back to her house alone asking her for a ride. She told her boyfriend tale. George never to come to her place again and the boyfriend thought I will. He's just innocent. He wants he meets somebody. He feels like they're friends. But that gave him a little insight into Andrea Levin. It was absolutely absolutely not a coincidence. That carol beef and gb the waitress who got George banned from the Black Angus were good friends. He thought the two Ladies Were Gossiping About Him after his first verbal altercation with GB. And if somehow you still aren't convinced of Georgia's involvement here are some more non coincidences the truck. George barreled researched in Mary. Ann's blood was found under the floor. Mats George began cutting out articles about the murders saying the killer would never be called. And referring to the victims as whores and skanks. George sold one of his friends. A ring that belonged to enter a Levin. George took another friend into a wooded area to collect some money that was owed to him in the woods but when he return he had crown royal bags filled with change. I hate this word but I'm going to use it because that's the word that they use Negro aid did Negro white hairs were found at the crime scenes and this was pre DNA but the hairs were consistent with George and much much prefer here that is consistent with a black or African American person but they use Negro anyway. George also was a very skilled for your and burglar. He had been doing this since he was a child on Mercer Island and then remember the bar patron that ask if there were any leads in the investigation. That patron was George. The savage dance is more than circumstantial. It's damning now. I'm GonNa recommend that you read the book for details of the trial of George Waterfield Russell's also just know that this piece of trash is off the streets for good on October Twenty Second Nineteen Ninety one. He was sentenced to forever forever ever forever ever. I'm sure he would have been sentenced to death. If that were an option at the time of his murders. George broke the mold in a few weeks. He crossed the racial divide as a serial killer which is unusual until you take into to account. The George acted white. That's a quote unquote acted white. That's not my thanking. George did not want anything to do with African Americans. His black heritage. He grew up and is comfortable amongst the the white population to the point where he despised. The black population Georgia's crimes were sexual and sadistic stick even before his first murder. I believe that he had a gratification and breaking into people's homes. He took things from the scene of the murders. But I don't I think they were trophies. It was just like twelve year old George breaking into a home and eating toast. He was hungry so he took food in the case of thirty one euro George George. He needed money so he stole their stuff. He wanted to be special. He thought black serial killers were UNICORNS. Truth is black. Serial killers usually kill black people. Since he didn't live around black people. He would know that I believe George would have continued. Can you to murder. Had he not been called this would not have been a gold state killer or bt bt K- kind of maniac where they age caught up with them and they stopped on their own. I think George would have had been caught before he stopped he. He would've killed and killed and killed some more. I do recommend that you read the book and I also watched the investigation discovery show most evil. They had an episode about a Russell Russell and I also looked up. Certain facts on murder Pedia so thanks for murder Pedia and and its extensive information on the crimes of not just George Waterfield Ross Russell but a lot of serial killers now. That's it for Jack Olson's charmer Had A book chosen for next week's episode but I had to return it because I just couldn't get into it. The audio was really shady and so was the story. I have a backup plan though so I'll be working hard to get that out next. Tuesday if you have feedback comments or book suggestions out directly to my email. TC by I T. at G MAIL DOT COM. You can find me on twitter as well. I'm at TC by TB. Please subscribe to true crime by the book on Stitcher spotify I tunes Google podcast and many other pod catchers and please share the a show with a friend I also appreciate ratings and reviews on your platform of choice. I like to thank you once again for listening in our catch you later bookworm mm-hmm.

George George murder Marianne Poll Reich Black Angus Carol Georgia George Waterfield Ross Russell Bellevue Ted Bundy Ed George Walter Field Angus George Andrea Levin Mercer Island Andreas Andrea Green River Jack Olsen Russell Jr. Esau Mats George
Taking care of the mentals

Seattle Now

12:27 min | 1 year ago

Taking care of the mentals

"Hey quick favor to ask if Seattle now is helped you stay informed and connected to your community during this pandemic. Why not tell some friends about us? We love you early listeners, but we also want new people to join us, so think of two people you think might like the show and share it with them. Send them a link to an episode. You think they might like. Thank you for listening and for taking the time to Sharon episode with a friend. Hey, it's Patricia. Murphy this Seattle now. Twenty, twenty has been a brutal year, and we're all feeling it the pandemic the economy. By the time. George Floyd was killed by police. So many people were already weary. Especially in the black community in a minute, we're gonNA talk with therapist. Roy Fisher about the mental toll of the racism that were all seen now, but first. Let's get you caught up. It's the end of chop early Wednesday Mayor Dirk signed an executive order and had the area cleared. Police made more than forty arrests. City crews cleared barricades, tents, and graffiti and the Seattle. PD started moving back into the east precinct. Everybody from the mayor to the police chief to the protesters who embedded for more than three weeks say it's not the end of the conversation about changing policing an undoing racism. Still, two men nineteen year old Horace Lorenzo Anderson and sixteen year, old Antonio Meze, junior were shot and killed in separate incidents at the chop, and so far there have been no arrests. In other news. Seattle is a step away from a new tax on businesses on Wednesday. The council advanced a plan that would tax the highest paid employees at the city's largest employers. It would raise about two hundred fifteen million dollars a year. That's roughly four times as much as the thousand eighteen head tax that was passed, and then repealed by the council after pushback from the city's businesses, the council could make it official on. Monday a representative for mayor. Durkan tells the Seattle Times. The mayor doesn't think the council should rush it and would rather see a payroll tax at the county for the state level. And the number of people living without homes is still growing in Seattle and King County the latest count released yesterday revealed a five percent increase in the number of people living homeless. That's about eleven thousand seven hundred people in County. Here's an interesting data point from the survey, veteran and youth. Homelessness appears to be declining. George, Lloyd's killing brought out a lot of emotions for people fear anger frustration, and it triggered bigger anxiety issues even PTSD. For White people these experiences may be new, but in the black community let people live with these emotions and fears every day. And that can have a big impact on Mental Health Roy Fisher knows that firsthand. He's Tukwila based therapist, and he also has a complicated relationship with the police. His father was one of the first black officers in the Washington state patrol. Joining us today. So there is a lot of awareness around mental health, and you know in more recent years. There's much more awareness around mental health, but they're still a stigma. Are there specific challenges that are unique to black people when it comes to mental health. Mental Health, as a listen over archie disorder. Right I think it's everybody shares, human condition, experiences, constraints and difficulties that will call mental health issues. I think within the black community. What you'll find is more of the stigma towards reaching out for services. You got a piece of the struggle. As well as just an ongoing sense of of read about what might happen in my life, so we have certain things within the DSM's of the diagnostic statistical manual right, it's Mental Health Bible that says here and the things that you should look for that says that this is a mental health issues as depression anxiety, but it doesn't really consider the racial is experience that black folks have the ongoing trauma. The ongoing a worry about what's GonNa Happen to you the ongoing concern about your kids and the wheat of that is really challenging, so I think that was the difference between say folks, Dominant Culture and Black folks experiences mental. Your father was a police officer, and growing up I. Wonder What your view of the police was. Loved the Police Officers Irbid, should dad and you get to see the the badge uniform and the the gun in the handcuffs right as a little kid? That's that's all that's all. There is where you wanted to be a police officer. You WanNa be a firefighter. And I had one that I got to wake up with every day. so there was tremendous pride in that and many of his friends were police officers. SEATTLE PD King County PD. So I spent a lot of time in my early years around police officer so just enor-. So there's this a lot pride associated with that. So! Your Dad's a cop. You have this view of the police. They're your heroes, right? This is the coolest job. But at the same time. You're growing up in a world of structural racism. At some point, you're confronted with this. Tell me about how your worldview began to be shaped by the rest of the world. Yeah. It was really as I got mobile. Got My driver's license. I've played basketball in high school, and so travel around to different areas I remember getting followed was on Mercer Island. Getting getting off the exit. Crest way and either have been. Trying to find high school, and why is this police officer finding me and I know I'm looking a little crazy driving around. Like a seventy eight you. Nasty, looking Mustang. Car that does not belong your car. Exactly. and. You know everybody gets a little nervous when the police behind them. and. I was okay. The first time is made sense of the new person here a, but it's like. Time to Mercer Island had this experience a married the first time I got pulled over by police officer and the questions of. Were you going? Why you in this neighborhood like she just asked me for my I D in my insurance is like why why are these other questions and that's when I started to wonder and talk to my dad. He and already give me the conversation about. Get pulled over. Keep your hands where they can see them those kinds of things. I knew all of that. But when it finally happens to you, then it becomes that it's real. It's not just a story. It is okay this is what things are going to be like. Sixteen on. That's kind of when I started to look at the police. And I read an article that you wrote for the South Seattle Emerald and you described that as a real like a fear, a fear that you carry today even at fifty. Fifty one years still. To say I fifty watch. That Yeah I I still were drive by police officers again I. I have no. Reason to necessarily fear the police right again. I haven't I've lived above board and life. I've never been arrested. My taxes, I do all the things that say you are a good person, right? I have a master's degree. There's just a lot of things. Check boxes that say that I should not be fearful. Yet the box I do check of black male is now than those other ones, so when I see police police officer I wonder. How are they going to see me? Right I'm six eight I have dreadlocks. I. Don't look like how you and assume a therapist luck. We come to that interaction with our shores, and unfortunately the stories tends to end with somebody living Mike me. And that that is where the anxiety comes from. Officers, And those stories we have actual video evidence of those interactions that end in a black person dead. The video of George Floyd is just the latest example, yes. I've stopped watching them. I know the I know the ending, so it brings up too much in mix hard for me to do my work because it is, it's nonstop. So again! That's ongoing trauma that we don't necessarily have a mental health diagnosis for. But I know what's real. I hear from the people that I work with right. I as a therapist I wonder. Where is the place for those videos right now? You. Know we need. To witness on some levels. What's happening? Is there room for both? I interesting. I don't think black folks need to see the videos short. Our history like me know those stories we can go back and until we know the stories of black death. White folks needs e white. Folks need to be reminded as of the country we live in. White folks need to know that while this isn't every day this happens, but it happens consistently that it's happened generation only. And this is our generation's opportunity to do something different. It's not new so white folks need to continue to see into experience. What again black folks. Always, know. How do you advise your clients to cope with the realities of this nonstop trauma? Yeah so I think about things. Where can need ground ourselves? We're our safe places, right? We have to have a place that we are able to re charge that we are able to. Experience these traumas out in the world, and then come back to a place. Where like? I know I'm safe here. I know there are people here that love me I. Know People here the cure for me, so that I'm able to go back out to the world. So really trying to explore where those places where those people. sometimes if our homes aren't safe places, sometimes just a place in our mind that we're able to ago, but we have to have a refuge from all of the pain in order for us. Get to go out and try to be successful in the world. Yeah, I'm just happy that we're having the conversation, right? It's the. These are the conversations that have been had in black communities black homes. Forever and I'm just glad that why folks are finally getting on orders. Pardon me and it's like what took you so long. Even dealing with this for a while welcome to the party. What are we going to do? But in terms of anything additions acknowledges. Keep going because the fear is. As history tends to tell us is once, the movement is passed that it's done. Right. And then we know that there we can suspect that there is a significant backlash coming towards US Again that's what history as told us so can we find ways to push through that for some lasted? A pleasure talking with you right Fisher. Thank you very much for your insight. Seattle now is produced by Clare mcgrane, Caroline Chamberlain Gomez and Jason. Matt. Jorgensen does our music. I'm Patricia Murphy. See You tomorrow.

Seattle officer Roy Fisher George Floyd Mental Health Patricia Murphy Mercer Island Mayor Dirk US Sharon the Seattle Times King County Washington state patrol South Seattle Emerald PTSD executive Horace Lorenzo Anderson Tukwila Durkan
#306: PRO TALK With Kit Camp

The Fine Homebuilding Podcast

42:16 min | 6 months ago

#306: PRO TALK With Kit Camp

"I mean there is a whole sort of maker movement and three d. printing and all of that stuff is cool that i'm just a hands on guy. I want things to be analog. I really don't want digital technology in my in my shop with the kids. I wanted to be an analog space. Welcome to the final building. Pro talk podcast. Our regular discussion with building industry professionals. This is senior editor patron mccomb. Today i'm joined by carpenter woodworker carbonari instructor and longtime f. hp contributor kit camp. You can find the fine home building proton podcast and the original fine homebuilding podcast at fine home building dot com slash podcast. Please leave feedback and ask questions there too. Kit is such a pleasure to meet you in person and to have you on this show. Thank you so much thanks. I'm happy to be here so in decades of working together or at least a decade We've never met right. No i don't think so. Yeah so this is really cool. This is another cool aspect of the proton podcast. Is i get a chance to spend a half an hour talking to folks that in many cases i've corresponded with via e mail or talked on the phone with for years and years. So how are you doing everything. Okay hey in your house and work life with the cove outbreak. Things are fine. it's been. I'm sure like many parents out there interesting to both shift to working at home and have my kids shift to go to school at home and as a someone who teaches at a pretty hands on subject that's been interesting too but overall we feel really lucky to be in the situation where were in in this weird environment that we're in right now so i ask. You is an educator who has kids who are being educated. Is it a problem to be teaching your classes when your kids are in their own at home. Well no i mean. Luckily my kids are older. They're both high school age. So i can't imagine what it's like for parents of little kids right you know preschool kindergarten. Age kids trying to work and also manage technology and get their kid to sit still and provide snacks. And are your kids going to school in your kids going to school fulltime or is it a kind of a hybrid scheduled like many schools are engaging in. They've been since last march. They both have been fully remote so we have not been to school since march of last year or other districts around you at changing their schedules or is that been pretty consistent in your area. It's been pretty consistent. Oregon had had the strictest sort of metrics in the country as far as returning to school in person that fairly recently changed. So we're sort of at school. Were kind of ramping up. For the what now seems more likely sort of returned to at least a hybrid model of teaching. But the numbers right now are still even with the new metrics. We have in oregon. They're still the numbers are too high for us to go back anytime sort of immediately couple other parts of the country you guys have been dealing with this for a much longer time On you focused the owned behaving themselves. Shall we say i mean yeah. I think in general they are. I think especially in the in the dark and rainy northwest winter. That were just sort of entering into that. I think it's gonna be a challenge to keep people apart and keep them away from trying to wanting to meet inside people are. I'm sure this is true. Everywhere people are burned out. And they're lonely and mr friends. The kid miss their friends and so the challenge is finding ways that can do that safely. Think switching gears. A little bit. Can you tell me how you became a carpenter Did you have friends or family members who were in the trades. Growing up to introduce you to that go. I mean it was a fairly roundabout guess way of ending up there. No my parents are both had white collar jobs. My dad has a college professor just retired after fifty years teaching and my mom is a reference librarian so we did grow. I did grow up. I grew up in a small town iowa and we lived in a at the time what was already a one hundred year old house so even though my parents both worked not in any kind of trade related job we worked on the house all the time and they were the kind of people that did plumbing in did carpentry and fix stuff on the house and worked on cars and we worked in the yard a lot so i think i had that sort of tendency built into me from a very young age and then i also just spent we lived adjacent to a five acre what had been a commercial tree nursery and then had just been let let go and so what was essentially five acres of woods extension of our backyard so my brother and i spent a good chunk of our childhood just running around back there with a knife and a hatchet building for arts and doing that kind of thing so i was always interested in tools i was always interested in making things i was pretty restless was always happy in school so being able to do something that was both kinetic and required concentration was good for me so anytime sort of through high school and in college when i had a chance to use tools or build things i tried to take those opportunities worked in like for example took a sculpture class in college i took a lot of art classes so that like in my school career that often met i was really interested in art but i was always more interested in making of it than the final product so did sculpture class in college and then ended up asking if i could do an independent study because i was interested in more sort of less sculpture and more woodworking in the shop attendant there was highly skilled and helped me out a lot and then honestly ended up in carpentry because i had to make a living yeah i needed the job two years out of college we had we spent a year in chicago. My wife had an internship with the dance company and then we moved to seattle. And i just could not find it. It was like a first time in my life that i couldn't find a job and i've been working since i was fourteen during school vacations and summers and stuff and i just could not job and so in desperation. I called a contractor. Who a friend of a friend worked for in the summers name was scott davis and somehow talk myself into a job with him. And he's a pretty guy. He did sort of general remodeling and that kind of thing in the seattle area so started working for him. I want to ask a couple questions. I didn't want to interrupt you but so when your parents are working on the house did they enjoy. It was strictly a matter of necessity. Think both i mean because now they're in a very different financial situation than they were when we were kids and they still work constantly in the yard and on the house know didn't work on their cars anymore. That's a long time. They have a shop in their garage and they they both do both some. They do some woodworking. My dad makes cool mobiles. And my mom's built some small furniture pieces and but they both they both still enjoy sort of working on the house and working in the yard especially their big gardeners and it sounds like they're busy like you were as an are as a person may need to keep moving right. Apparently and so. What kind of undergraduate degree did you end up with where you had all these art classes. While i was an english major and was in a sort of focused creative writing program within the english major but because i went to a liberal arts school i was able to take quite a few art classes. Would you you said you had the shot manager. I i forget the title. You gave this person but they were willing to help you out with Learn how to use your hand tools and it carving what were you doing mostly so i think i was just interested in sort of like the furniture and so i i did the sculpture class and you know. We were doing assignments that were really art. Based but we they had this beautiful well-equipped shop with table saws planers and really nice benches and so the sculpture teacher had his office there. But then there was this man. William and i can't remember his last name but he was really the person who maintained all the machines and advise students on you. Know how do i use the radio arm. Sar i wanna do this thing. Like how can i do that and would so. I asked him if he'd be willing to sort of supervise in this independent. Study and i. I built a little cherry three legged stool which i still have the i also the first time. I've got stitches because i was trying to. Chisel the top of the legs off will holding stool in my hand. So i'd like to tell that story to my students. I built a little finger joint toolbox from some plans. I found somewhere that was pre internet for me. So in some magazine or something So just exploring sort of building tools. I turned a mullet on that. I still have so. Did you find that stuff enjoyable. I mean obviously you win the kept doing it but did you did you. Did it frustrate you at times. Where or was it joy always. I was pretty happy in there. Yeah i mean. I just have always been. I've always been interested in tools. And i just really liked the focus of being in there and being able to make things. I got frustrated a few years later when my toolbox all fell apart. Because i didn't put up glue. It was a finger joints and i i didn't know at the time needed to do glue and all of them so i put a few dots glue in there and figured. Oh yeah that'll hold together and it doesn't for a while right does so well you then you ended up in seattle because you need and then you took up carpentry job and what kind of carpentry we're doing. And how long did you do that. And then i think he moved to san diego right. It's some point there. There were a few steps and mcgann. Yeah it was a long journey. So i we did when i worked for scott. The main job. I remember was sort of out on mercer island and it was a fairly substantial addition and remodel to a pretty funky pretty funky house. The main thing i remember about that was it was the coldest and rainiest winter that seattle had had like ten years. We your choice to become a carpenter. At that point. We were working outside in the snow. And i mean just in absolute pouring rain standing in two inches of water using a skill. Saad that people are. I think sometimes are overly glamorous about what. It's like to be a carpenter who who's never been a carpenter and the work has to get done no matter what the weather is and you guys are in a frankly a bad climate to be building stuff right. Yes certainly up there. The the sort of environmental challenges of it were significant. So i think you know partly because that work was fairly brutal quickly rekindled interest in. Well i mean i really like this work. I really like working with my hands. Where can i get more knowledge about. And i i i started a friend given me a subscription to find woodworking as i think a college graduation present and so reading the magazine and i sort of got more interested in hand tool woodworking and that led me to the northwest school a wooden boat building which is in port townsend washington which is across puget sound from seattle. So i ended up doing after about a year of working for scott. I left and went to school and did a six month. Traditional bo building program there which a lot of it was boat-building but part of it was just how to use a chisel how to use a hand. Saw how to read would sharpening It was a really cool program at the time. Like no sandpaper noah poxy. It was almost all hand tools and then sort of all solid wood. Even the stuff we did with our tools it was all solid wood really a cool program and opportunity. Do you think those skills translate to being a carpenter. Oh yeah yeah absolutely. And then from the boat school. I was hired by a company outside of portland and we moved down here. And i spent two years building pretty big wooden boats down here. I think the biggest way that translates to my work as a woodworker now but also with my students is a comfort with curves and compound join ary and just having a good eye for curves and and just being comfortable working non rectilinear early. If that's a word it's way to work. Non rectilinear early. Yeah i just. I try to do that trying to get the kids to throw you know like we're so in her mind so often woodworking means making boxes So just trying to get him to throw some kind of curve in there even if it's a like a little poll on live or something Just to get away from ninety degree corners is. Can you tell me about the transition becoming a fulltime carpenter to becoming a teacher. And and how did that come about sure. So there's a couple more steps in there. So i i was up worked at this yard for a couple of years. That was an amazing job with a really highly skilled crew and still i was still really interested in learning more about hand tools and and sort of furniture making so after a couple of years there i ended up going to college of the redwoods for a year which is a pretty well known sort of fine furniture making program at the time was still run by james curnow who has since passed away but kit i did. Yeah what a what a wonderful thing. Yeah it was a real gift to be able to take a year and go down there and be in that program. So did that for europe. That was a super intense experience. Partly because eight hours a day six days a week also because we had a brand new baby at the time to do that in your life kit. Move down there. My oldest daughter who is twenty was six weeks old when we moved down there But it was a great year and then that from there. I actually got my first teaching job which was in las vegas at a k. Through eight school in las vegas and that was a private school. Like where you weren't l. It was a private school. And i had one of my best friends from college. Was the science teacher there. At the time the school was brand new and we went down. We actually went down over our winter break to visit them and he sort of showed me around the school and there was this empty room there and he said well this is supposed to shop and then through conversation with him and talking to the head of school who. We just met in the hallway when we were walking around I ended up going back down a month or so later and top. Three demonstration classes to three different age groups of kids ended up being hired as woodworking teacher in your educational experience. And your private study like. Did you have any training to be a teacher. How didn't no no not at all. It's completely i mean. And i still don't in this part of why i feel incredibly lucky to have had these two jobs that i've had which i love. No teaching for me is been just really intuitive. I always loved working with kids. It'd lots of babysitting when. I was young and and in then when i was both in college in highschool spent a lot of time with a couple of families that had younger kids and just was always comfortable without an enjoyed it. When i left high school. I wanted to be an english teacher. That's what i thought. I was going to do in at the time when i finished college. I thought i never wanted. I never want to talk about reading a book again for the rest of my life. And so this whole roundabout woodworking bo building. Carpentry thing somehow looping back to being able to be a teacher was was pretty cool with your parents. Both being academics. Were they worried about you. Being able to make a living as a carpenter that ever part of conversations you had with them if they had that worry. They kept it to themselves another thing. I always feel really thankful for is they were they never questioned. They never questioned. What i wanted to do or why i wanted to do it. They were incredibly supportive from the time i expect expressed interest in going to school. I mean through carpentry and going to college of the redwoods and moving all over the place and then and then you know. I taught at that school in las vegas for four years and then was feeling kind of burned out. Also we really didn't want to raise our daughters in las vegas and my brother was in san diego so then we moved there and they didn't sort of questioned me quitting. What was a stable right a rewarding and and solid paying job and sort of moving to san diego. Your wife i would add is pretty freaking to. She followed you all over the place. Yeah absolutely yeah. And i wanted. I was interested in finish carpentry. So we moved to san diego and i talked myself into a job there. My brother was there so we had a connection sort of reason to move there. But what do you remember about your moved to. San diego is what you told me what it costs by. What i believe was a mobile home right to close to the beach and it was very expensive. No that wasn't me. My dad was very expensive. Yeah real estate there was. We got lucky with our timing. I mean it was still really expensive if we'd gone a few years later i don't know if we could have bought the house. Ceo is working with your hands teacher. Like it's very hard to buy real estate there. Can you tell me a little bit about the school. Where you are aren't in its name and who your student sure. And what their ages are. School has called the catlin gabel school and we have just under eight hundred students total. It's a it's a pre kindergarten through twelfth grade school just a progressive private day. School are the kids all in the same building. This wide range group. Do they have broken up a little bit. We're broken up and partly that's a purposeful thing and partly it's the nature of our campus where we have a sixty plus acre campus with both some newer buildings and then some older buildings that were there when they acquired the property. So we're pretty spread out. There's a there's a beginning school building in the lower school building and then a middle school building and then the high school is sort of spread out among multiple buildings. My shop is underneath. What sort of looks like a quonset hut. But it's a big. It's an indoor tennis court. In the shops in the basement always put the woodshop in the basement. Might shop was like what the heck. I got to say for basement shop. It's pretty nice because there's windows all along to walls so sometimes and get good. We actually got good light for basements up. That's cool students from all grades or take the carbonari different points in their educational experience. So there's there's actually three of us. There's three shop teachers. Every kid from preschool. Through seventh grade takes woodshop. Every year i teach middle and high school shop. And then there's my colleague. Rick teaches first through fifth grades. And then my colleague. Steve teaches pre kindergarten and kindergarten. So it's it's part of the art program so every like i said every student preschool through seventh grade takes it every year after that it becomes an elective so eighth grade students have they can choose three of five sort of art offerings to take and then in high school again. It's an elective. And it's part of the many offerings that we offer in in the arts and how many students of the various grade levels do you have in your class so at any given time during the year i'm teaching about sixty five or so. Students spread among four grade levels. Class sizes are pre. Were our class. Sizes are small so sixteen would be my maximum class size. And i teach four sections. I think i know the answered my question. But i'm guessing that some of them have absolutely no experience woodworking and some of them probably have a little but how do you tailor an educational experience to kids with such varying hand skill levels. It is an interesting part of the job. Because i do have kids who've been doing it since they were four who've come up sort of through the program at school and then sixth grade. Which is the youngest grade. That i teach is an entry point for a lot of new students coming into the school so i try and pick projects that are appropriate for sort of both contingents. They tend towards the basic. And then i encourage students with more experience to just sort of their level of join ary or or take on a decorative aspect that maybe the kids are learning. Won't do i guess. Yeah and do you think that some of them will become carpenters or do some of them express interest in in being traits people. Not usually and i mean partly that also is you know it's not a. It's not really a carpentry program. It's not sort of learning to build homes. It's not it's not career oriented or sort of otak as we would have thought of it when i was young. It's really part of the art program because we're a tuition charging private school. Most of the families. Most of these kids are headed toward collar. Type careers I do know. I mean we do have families that are in construction and i. There have been students in the past who ended up being designers and furniture makers so the school does graduate a lot of people who go into artistic pursuits. I don't know how many carpenters there. It's a hard way to make a living to grow. I guess so that. I mean one of my hopes for the program is really that the kids have that they gain an appreciation for this type of work and i guess handmade objects in general. Because certainly even if they're even if these students are never going to be carpenters. They're going to hire carpenters. San so and you can teach them appreciation for beautiful things to right. That's yeah. I think that's an awesome thing. What are the greatest challenges about being a carpenter a instructor at your school. And do you think they're different challenges for teachers elsewhere. I do i do. I mean i think our school is a little unique the challenge for i guess the biggest challenge for me just as a teacher is trying to balance my desire to teach to sort of have a real like woodworking progression like okay. We're going to do sharpening and then we're gonna do rabbit joints and then we're gonna do this thing and then we're going to do. This thing is trying to balance that with with my also very strong desire for kids to be able to pursue things that they're interested in so am is trying to balance the direction or sort of what. I'm interested in what i see as important work with with student buying and just wanting to provide a place in tools and materials where they can really explore what they want without me dictating. Okay today. everybody's gonna do the same thing. So it's always a balance between assigned work and freedom of choice for me. That's the biggest. I guess that's my biggest challenge in that pendulum swings more one way and then more the other way. Depending on the year the students sort of what happened in the year before. And what i'm thinking. Generally as the kids get older i give them more and more freedom of choice in my hope is by that time. They're comfortable enough in the shop. They know how to use a hands on. They know to use the miter box and they know how to use the band saw. And maybe they've worked on the lathe that they can they have a thing in their mind. They can sort of picture what tools they needed in order to to go after that idea. Have you had any the kids get injured in. Is it been a big problem. Because i'm sure if my wife were here now she'd be knocking on all of the wood and the shots. Maybe i'll do. I feel i've been really. I mean i feel i. I do put an emphasis on safety. And i'm i'm really conscious of that in the shop. I also just. I think i'll shop. Teachers would agree that. There's just an aspect of luck to that. And i've been incredibly lucky many years both using power and hand tools. Do a lot of carving with the kids with knives which you know seems simple that is potentially pretty risky and then using tools like the bands on sliding miter saw the scary thing about like carving tools. Is you know people know to be scared of a table. Saw right a carving chisel seems pretty innocuous but boy it can really smart when you jammed into your hand right. Yeah yeah for sure. So i've only ever had. I think i've had one student who got stitches over my entire career. That's lots of doing something right. Man knocking on my bench trend a somewhat related subjects. Do you have Aches and pains related to your time being carpenter and do you think we're doing a better job protecting tradespeople. Now than when you were working in the trenches. I do think we're doing a better job. Currently i just think ease of access to information has been a big part of that. You know what. I'm talking sort of about over my career like the the sort of development of the internet and then internet forums as a exchange of information and those were certainly essential when i got into finish carpentry and didn't really like knew all about woodworking but didn't really know about that trade specifically i just think there's more information out there about the trades in general and certainly about best practices and then safety stuff. You know i think in the. Us that will always be the veil ability of that information in people's desire to adhere to that or or practice safe work practices always going to be up against the sort of kind of cowboy aspect that we have in the us in the trades. So i think it's i think it's tough but i do think i do think things have improved really see a lot more people wearing ear protection in an i protection kneepads than i did when i was younger i think for me. I still feel pretty good. I actually feel better. The more i work. I went from years of a super active job to then teaching which is much less active. Although i am on my feet in the shop generally like i walk around a lot. And i'm doing stuff a lot but the the more i work the better i feel in general. That's i totally agree myself to like if i mean big pharma sloth i hurt more than if i'm working out. Yeah but then finish carpentry to as you know other than carrying heavy doors. Generally i think is one of the easier sub trades on your on your body. It's better than carrying sheets sub floor rate for sure. Would you encourage or discourage your kids from taking up a career in the trades if they showed an interest and desire. Do you think there's any reason to parents. Should be discouraging. Their kids from doing trade work. Not if my girls were interested. I would totally support them. I would i would encourage them to pursue education as well. I think it's good to have your options open. Well and i just think education in general is only gonna make you a better trades person sort of the more exposure you have to ideas and learning how to synthesize information. I also think anyone going into the trades could only benefit from some business knowledge which is not something that i had at all i started. I worked for other contractors for a couple of years and then sort of goes looking for more flexibility and more choice of the kind of projects. I did and sort of went out on my own but no idea how to do that. Had no business knowledge at all and that made things a lot harder on me and my family in those years that i was doing that. I don't think you're alone in that man. that's no. I think that's fairly common. I don't think contractors because they want to like look at spreadsheets and do business but boy that's the people who are successful at her paying attention to the stuff like that. Yeah no. I think it can be a really rewarding career path. You know if you're the kind of person that likes solving puzzles and likes working with their hands and doesn't want to sit at a desk and you know our wants to be their own boss. That's always a a thing you can work toward. Do you ever think about what your life would have been like as an english professor. No not really well. And i have colleagues and friends who are english teachers and i always feel really grateful when i go home on a friday and i don't have a stack of papers like so I like that aspect of my job. Very much i mean. I do a lot of sharpening in maintenance. I'm not doing a lot of grading with the present situation. Are you able to teach kids. woodworking from remotely. I mean how does that work That's a great question. I sort of decided early on last spring. The wouldn't really try to do woodworking over the internet. I think just the realizing the variability in the spaces kids had available to work in from home and they may or may not have any tools at home. Watch their being safe right. I mean. I can't really i can see their little faces and zoom meeting. That's about it. So i sort of put that aside in general last spring i did. I really let the kids just sort of. They had to pick something that they were doing with their hands. It had to be off the computer. They did a little project proposal and then they were working on independent projects. Most of the spring where you generally pleased with what they presented and then made absolutely. Yeah although that you know that. When i just opened things wide open to kids that also can be unnerving and not every kid has burning idea of something they wanna make so this fall when we came back i sort of shifted gears a little bit and i decided we would start out with some assigned project so i've actually been doing doing a design and make your own wallet project which has been really fun so a little bit of hand sewing but they've also gone through a pattern development process so it involves three d. thinking and how can i best use materials. I sent home bags of sort of vintage material for them to use and some needles and thread and some card stock for pattern making and that's been really fun to see sort of what they'll do with that. And then we did a little bookbinding project sort of simple bookbinding so trying to find projects where i can send all the materials home so everyone is starting from the same place but then still be touching on some of those skills that i i try to develop in the woodshop two three mitchell thinking and planning ahead and and also just using your you know sort of dexterity and using your hands. It's been really fun to see what they do. I think that's awesome and especially now kids. Oftentimes don't have any opportunity to make stuff with their hands so screen driven and they make things in the virtual world. But somehow i don't think that's the same. Yeah i agree. I mean there is that whole sort of maker movement and three d. printing and all of that stuff which i think is cool but i'm just a hands on guy. I want things to be analog. I really don't want digital technology in my in my shop with the kids like i wanted to be an analog space because everywhere else in their life and in school there yeah. It's all tied in with computers all the time. So this brings me to my favorite question and this show is. Can you tell me about your own. And do you have any lingering problems. You're ignoring either happily happily. We are current house. We bought this is our third year in this house was built in the late forties and when we moved in it was sort of solidly still in a late forties. There was a lot of mustard yellow. Did you have a bathroom. We had a very yellow bathroom. So we've done we've been we basically been continually remodeling since we moved in we did added. Two bathrooms turned one big bathroom into two smaller bathrooms. And then we've been working on the kitchen. So i do i. There's a lot of loose ends from two years ago. I still there's still like a day's worth of work to do in our after. I haven't done for two years because we've been you know like he gets functional. You start using it and then drag a thing in there and that little thing. But i haven't and then i've also been working on this shop so have sub panel put in and i've been wearing the shopping. Here's a i'm sure. Like how big is your shop. And would you like it to be different anyway. Well it's the nicest biggest that i've ever had michael. My previous shop in san diego was a one car garage which meant i worked out mostly worked outside and it was for tool storage. I would like no. It's a. it's a really nice space. I'd i'd like to add heat at some point. It gets pretty chilly in the winter. But i did when. I put up wall sort of inside an insulated that so it's getting a little better all the time but still things to do dear handcrafts Involvement are working to or strictly would guy. I would love to do more metalworking. i've done. I've done a fair amount of knife making with kids. Actually some of my high school kids have gotten into that And you know are we. Don't really have a ford setup or anything. It's super simple just tool steel and propane torch and grinding on a little belt. Sander very simple. But they learn about tempering in shaping and then adding handles and that's been really fun. It's something i'd like to learn more about myself and do more. I've also thought. Sometimes i have a little pipe dream about sort of going back to the sort of industrial arts model that we had when i was young like soldering and bending sheet metal and we did a whole plastics unit and my shop class and middle school to like. He'd forming polycarbonate acrylics. Did you do san casting. I did some of that. Didn't ever get to do sand casting. We also did a whole drafting thing. Which was absolute torture. Yeah i still harbor. Some resentment to my mental shot. Teacher made me do like the lettering for days on end. Yeah it's never had the patience or the precision for that as a middle schooler. It was all just a torture of smudges. Kate it's been such a pleasure talking to you. Is there anything you want to ask her. Tell our listeners. Why we have you here. I don't think so. I mean i'd love to. I'd love to hear from people about either their experience. If they're a shop teacher always would love to connect with other people teaching woodworking but also would like to hear about people's experience being woodworking students to That's always interesting to me. Is a great source of information as i think about what to do with my students if you all send those Experiences to the f. h. Podcast on make sure kit gets them. Great man. I really enjoyed talking to you. Thank you so much for being on the show. Thanks so it was really fun. I feel like i did all of the talking. That's why we have this show man because you're more way way more interesting than i am. Unfortunately that's all the time we after day. Thanks to kit for joining us and thanks to all of you for listening. Please remember to send us your comments questions and suggestions to f hp podcast at taunton dot com and please comment or of us however listening at upside. The folks find our podcast. Stay safe everybody. Thanks for listening. Keep craft alive and happy villainy.

seattle patron mccomb carbonari kit camp one hundred year five acre five acres san diego las vegas six month noah poxy ninety degree james curnow two years bo building scott davis scott mcgann mercer island fifty years
#341: Getting Started with No Cash to 30+ Deals Per Year and Free Houses with Jared Holland

BiggerPockets

1:33:31 hr | 2 years ago

#341: Getting Started with No Cash to 30+ Deals Per Year and Free Houses with Jared Holland

"This is the bigger pockets podcast show three forty one. I literally jumped out of my seat like as high as I can in the air and I like the yellow and I see this because I'm so excited after this insane process of renovating this housing going through this crazy ordeal to get that offer twenty four our on the market made it all worth it. You're listening to figure pockets radio simplifying real estate for investors large and small mall. If you're here looking learn about real estate investing without all the hype you're in the right place they tuned and be sure to join the millions of others who benefited from bigger pockets dot com your home for real estate investing online. Hey what's going on and this is brandon host of the bigger pockets podcast having an incredible week here with my buddy David Greene David Greene. What's up man not much man I just had I think on a podcast a couple episodes of guy was talking about how I've been trying? Go running in the hills to get some exercise. How I had started icy my back? I've been at it and it's getting easier and easier. I just did a two six. Mile Runs WanNa Saturday in one on Sunday and it is <hes>. It's a blast I'm getting. I'm getting some exercise so I'll Jesse easier for you just like in real estate state when things are hard on their job I got it. I know you share the same focus on how it feels in the beginning you gotta focus focus on consistency and I think like I always plan on it. It's going to take B twelve months to get this down and then four weeks later go. This isn't so bad today my instagram. I wrote like something along the lines of like I didn't want to be Jim at six. Am this morning but it's a good thing. I don't live my life by feeling a lot of people live the life by feeling it's a good thing I live my life by intention and by goals roles and by you know what I want out of the future not by how I'm feeling right now sounds like so my question to everybody today including you David is what are you GonNa do today because because of intention not feeling great I'm going to look through my contacts to find someone that could be a buyer's agent on my team to help close. Some of these buyer leads. I I love what you said. ooh that sounds like Jaakko willing. He's one of my favorites. He's probably still who knows with the way that you are probably true. Yeah uh-huh quotes. What have you been up to you? I've seen that your instagram man pretty cool stuff. You're posting man okay so I quit story and the today show because today show is is incredible <hes> with a guy who's just like just crushing it started with no money. Whatsoever has some really creative ideas from vesting with no cash and then now is doing like thirty flips a year but anyway anyway before I get to tell you a quick story <hes> so we do this ninety day challenge every roughly ninety days over on bigger pockets where we do like a Webinar and we launched this big big thing and I did a facebook gruber prior facebook group last time all about like what are you going to college the Ninety Days in my ninety day goal was to get a mobile home park under contract fifty units Ortho under contract by the end of the ninety days well on day like eighty five? I got a hundred and sixty eight unit mobile home park under contract onto eighty five <hes> and I my my lead measure. If you know what that means by Leeann as you get there was to make eight offers <hes> per month doesn't make eight dollars per month and I should get something in the contract with my theory on onto eighty five. I got one sixty eight unit under contract on Day. Eighty seven. I got another hundred and thirty unit under contract so in two two days but then the final week of the quarter the final week challenge my lead measures panned out ended up getting almost three hundred units under contract now. I'm in due diligence. Agents can be going through that is going to be doing the whole money raising thing and <hes> syndicating those and I'm Paul can you can you imagine if you had quit a week earlier dino right like you know what I've been making offers. It's not really working. I'm going to go back to doing with easy. I think dance with the stars is on tonight. I'll go is done instead. So many people do that. It's like that famous cartoon that you see the meme on the guy for ninety nine for the gold mining for diamonds and he's like giving up because he's two inches away from it yeah anyway I've been doing since it's very proud of you. You're you're carrying showing us how it should be done well I. I'm a huge believer in that you've set lead measures. You set the action from you actually more than anybody else. He's like you set the actions that you do if you follow them over time. Those actions will result in what you want. I mean like a real estate agent stuff like if I make the right number phone calls and then I read that four disciplines of execution book and it just took that to a whole new level of like here's my forty x I did the exact forty x to acquire these properties taking that principle and giving you an actual blueprint of how to execute it framework of how to do it yeah and I track every single day to give a quick plug. I check it every single day. In the ninety days of intention journal which which is today's quick tip is coming out soon in the next couple of weeks. I don't know the exact date but we have a new edition of the ninety days of attention journal coming out so well and that's here on the podcast when we do I just want you to be aware is coming. It's even better than the last and like I said I actually would attribute like I would not have got these properties under contract if it wasn't for her that journal I do it every single morning so that's that's our quick tip and now so we get to today's shows a sponsor you know over. Two million people are earning money by hosting an AIRBNB by hosting you can earn money to help you buy that dream home with the extra bedroom consider hosting on AIRBNB and be with investment property on the other side of town the vacation home you don't visit often enough or that backyard in las week that sits vacant for most of the year thing about as an investment in your future sure maybe it's time to do some renovations or start pulling together a down payment for your next place. It's free to list and AIRBNB has a tool that will help you price your place. Just right worried worried about your property. AIRBNB offers a host guarantee that helps protect your property in the unlikely event that something goes wrong and you're the boss when you host Airbnb your home your rules host when you want how you want list one bedroom or the entire place. It's up to you so whether you're looking for some side cash or steady income hosted on Airbnb might just be the best investment assessment you haven't made yet when you go to bigger pockets dot com slash AIRBNB and start hosting. You'll receive one hundred dollars cash bonus. If you generate five hundred dollars in bookings value you by October thirty first terms and conditions apply now. Let's get to today's show our guest today is jared Holland. A real estate investor out of Seattle got started with no money. Whatsoever has some really great stories really fantastic stuff like his how he gets houses what he calls free houses quote unquote free houses his advice on raising money from private lenders one of the most like shot like I don't know how shocking like mind blowing things? I've heard a relating to that ah you'll hear a lot on my mind got below something he said. David actually goes into this like I don't call rant discussion on two opposing mindsets. I love that David. I didn't say that during in a show where like man that was so good and like one of those mindsets most people in the world have but if you can shift to the other one it can just change everything and then jared's answer to the question and how are you finding deals so good including advice for anybody who's brand new getting started like I ask them. What would you do? If you're just getting started today. What's the exact thing you should do and he lays that out for you so listen for all that today and a whole lot more bill without further ado? Let's just hear from jared so here we go. Let's get into it jared welcome to the bigger pockets podcast man good. Have you here. Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here all right so let's get into this thing. Let's go into your story. How did you get into real estate investing? What was that very first journey well that early journey looks like India? I deal yeah so for me. It kinda fell into it a little bit. I guess my background has been in construction. My entire adult life so my very first I guess brushing with investing is when I had a painting franchise and I was his paintings <unk> nice houses in Mercer Island out in affluent part near Seattle and you know I just <hes> I was talking to the homeowners and they were telling me that their neighbor knbr across the street had just sold their home that only owned for I think a year or two <hes> they were renovating their is to sell it and they told me basically their their neighbor made about about two hundred thousand dollars plus just on a really quick sale so at that point that was when I even I realized I guess what real estate was kind of as a profession and after that I haven't got the bug and just started earning as much as I could and and went into the industry so walk us through the very I deal the first one you did your your business. You're flip or whatever you did flip is D- are merely now but my very first deal was a wholesale so I guess maybe a little bit more background on getting into real estate also so like shooter yea after that I had never even seen real estate. I didn't know what it was. I didn't really know anything about it. <hes> I know a lot about construction though so that gave me kind of confidence moving forward when I I kind of realized real estate was thing I invested in a mentorship program like you're not a good amount of people do and then it was a year of learning before I actually really got much traction so about eight months or so and and I you know that joined the mentors who program started just drinking from a fire hose basically learning as much his I could networking kind of do all that stuff and then the first properties I actually got under contract was actually through a hedge fund and and it was through just a really random connection and they gave me three houses basically the worst houses that they could possibly find. They're like you're you can you can take take these houses and see what you can do here. So I got three houses under contracts and then I just meant I tried really hard to to sell all three hours was able to get one of them soul so one of the three ended up being sold and I ended up <hes> wholesaling tune investor that I know now and I've actually done a bunch of bunch of deals deals West since then. That's cool okay so you got these things why why wholesale to begin like from in that paid mentor should be did was it focused on hold or U._k.. That's the only thing I can do the lack of money or what made that choice so so for me. My game was always flipping right so I always wanted wanted to do a development in flip houses in for my background and construction. It just felt like a good transition but wholesaling you know like everybody says that's the best place to start right. You can get into it. You can learn a lot about the industry with little risk and so for me. That was just the best place to start. You can actually understand the process of buying installing a house. You're going to be meeting seller. Is You figure out actually how to put together an estimate repairs for property also so just the it's kind of a natural progression shen united to be able to get into actually doing bigger bigger things okay all right. That's cool so walk us through what happened next so with that one in deal because that women's kind of boring so my I my very first deal I only made it thousand bucks on and but at that point though I mean thousand dollars thousand dollars right and at that point that's when it becomes real hell Dan you're chasing this mythical industry right thinking that you know you can make all of this money and do these deals and these great things but until you actually get one done it feels like man. You're just running up. This helmet never ends and really trying trying to like get your bearings in see again. If it's even real so I would say that was probably the biggest coolest thing for me is getting that I deal done. Just it's like it. Lets you realize holy crap man. I can do this. I can do this. It's just you know keep pushing and when it finally comes together. I think that's the most exciting part a pressure. That's awesome man. What would you say was the biggest key contributor to you getting that I deal the biggest key thing would be persisting like through everything Salaam? I sent out a ton of direct mail and to be honest I property I ever got under contract. I had no right having under contract like I ended up getting a commercial development deal under contracts might vary I steal you know that was something that I was just sending out direct mail and you know meeting with sellers and just super excited and kind of the fake it till you make the thing right. It's like okay I can I can do I can I can sell the commercial development deal so you know just pushing pass all this failures unlike realizing cable well. This one didn't work out. Let's keep moving forward and then just young not giving up man. I tried to sell the house at three of them right so I was trying to sell these three properties. He's from a hedge fund that everything was supposed to go perfectly here. You guys name. Your price is how it started and I was like Oh great hedge funds GonNa give me these. The property is and I get to just hit how much I pay for all of them. So it seemed like this beautiful scenario I wrote offers on all of them. They came back about ten percent plus higher. I think on all of them anywhere from you know twenty grand to about sixty thousand dollars higher which basically killed all three almost us and so it was it was it was tough though man like trying to sell these properties I met a bunch of who will investors doing it which was amazing but you yeah just making sure that to to keep pushing forward when you keep getting no after no after no. You can't figure out why it doesn't work is in your mind. You have a Unicorn man. This is the best deal out there <hes> so so here's here's why I asked that question. I want to dig a little bit deeper. That's okay we tend to look at the result and just focus on. Did we get it or not and the the advice is usually what just keep trying. Keep persistent. Keep going eventually. You're going to get it but that's not a very strategic approach to what you're trying to do. So Brandon the other day was asking me like how I been losing weight and doing better and the reality is I am eating better but I wasn't able to eat better until I started working out and it made me feel healthier and I didn't want bad food. Food is much and now I'm seeing okay it started with working out which led to eating better which led to the result so if I want a better result idea to trace it back to the very first step to take but but we often don't take the time to reverse engineer how we got where we got so you got this. I deal from sending out to rent male but I bet if you like really look at the thing you'll see well. <hes> I went to this meeting. I met this person. They said this thing I saw how they did it. Help me go do it. Can you for the new visitor out there struggling getting that I deal. Can you kind of pick apart apart. Maybe reverse engineer the steps you took to get that deal under contract and then we'll jump back in and say like okay once you had that deal where you took your career as a fantastic question actually 'cause you're right you just say just keep pushing forward and you are pushing forward but you're changing a lot of things as you continue to move forward so I would say for the maybe maybe the first contracts might be a better opportunity since the first thing that actually got was through a hedge fund in it wasn't kind of the same situation that you do when you're sending mail male. You're meeting with sellers so you know maybe for that first contract I would say it's definitely a lot of trial and error right. I met with a lot of different people before I finally was able to get a contract so my biggest thing was yes you persevering but after each failure you gotta step back and reflect on exactly what you could have done differently to be able to make that success so like I would meet with a lot of sellers in kind of fumble through things did not know exactly what to say so I would go to an appointment first so you need to have some sort of structure when you meet with these people right so I like seller lead sheets that I worked through and you ask specific questions make sure you ask all these probing things his you're working towards buying their house right so getting the correct information and then working with them through that appointment to you know so obviously you building rapport and you're doing all of these things to get a good relationship with them so once once I was able to do that a few times and understand the process a little bit better than after each appointment I would be able to get a little bit further right. I may be didn't even get a contract presented for the first several times. I went to meet with the salary because I was too scared and I didn't understand what to say but the next time I would get a little bit further and then by the time I was finally ready to actually present a contract contract. I was confident in understanding the process right. I had seen okay. We'll okay. What do you do once you get a contract? What's the next step after that like I have? I have no idea I have never bought a house before right so making relationships with you know title companies in escrow and understanding okay will once I have a contract then what I do o after but earnest money down Oh then what do I do then you bring it to the title company and you go through this whole process and until you understand all of that it's a lot harder to you. Make that connection with the seller and show them you know this. This is the process we're gonNA work through that. Just came up at a meet up that I was doing doing in San Mateo the other night. Someone asked me a question about debts income ratios or if I buy a rental property can I still get a loan for a house and I realized there's so many people that are trying to understand understand all of that stuff before they start taking the steps when the reality is with that person should have done was caller lender and asked that question to the lender and when they say no you can't get the house you should say okay. Why not what would I have to do so I could walk me through your criteria walked me through the Matrix that you use to make a decision and that's how you learn about lending you do the same thing with the title title company? Hey tell me what title insurance is. What does that mean? What am I paying for? Of course they're going to tell you. They're charging you to do that work. You'RE GONNA learn a bunch about title. It's going to increase your confidence and then I think that's what you're saying that translates into the conversation that you have with the seller so you're walking in their assertive and knowing what you WANNA do instead of. I know I'm trying to get this thing under contract but I don't know what to do with that. After a naturally that's GonNa Affect you know like the confidence that you have or how how bulge will be nuts. It's exactly right and again it took it takes a lot of trial and marriages like anything else but once you understand the full process in U._C.. Okay this is where it starts. This is where I'm actually GONNA finish by buying the property than that that translates to the seller also and it just gives you a lot more confidence with them and you're able to you know it contract signed in. I remember the day that I I left. I met this sellers Atta McDonald's in south Seattle funny thing in those nine people who own the property so coordinating signatures that was really difficult and I remember when I got that contract sign. I was so oh happy excited. I blasted out to the world. I'm a real estate investor. You know that first contract is so exciting you know I worked at it for a really long time. I'm and Diaz. I made some really good connections do developers but yeah that one that one didn't pan out but the best one of the best learning lessons getting started in the industry st for sure so walk us through the beginning few years or a few months or the beginning. I WANNA get like an overview of Cayenne you started with that. I deal <music> what came what came next in terms of deals. How were you getting them? How many were you doing where you work in a job during this time I it's a broad question but I want to get a good picture of of what that was like when you're getting started and when was that as well yeah knows totally so I'm going into your five right now so I started my my company officially? The very end of twenty thirteen is is when I created the business and you know for me the number one thing that I knew is that I had to market to find properties free so literally like as soon as I informed my company very under twenty thirteen I immediately started sending direct mail literally like before I really even had my name picked out like just right away. I was like okay well. How do I find deals so I can't remember I think I pulled the list from legless source something like that and it wasn't a very big list but it was high equity non owner-occupied like probably the most saturated lists out there you know and I started handwriting letters? You know fifty a week is what would I started at in at that time man. I was getting like four and a half percent response rate. It was fantastic. I couldn't believe it and when that phone started ringing again it was so exciting that you know it's just this this crazy emotion of <hes> you know this can really work and so those are the small things it really keeps you motivated at the beginning right like just getting actually sweet traction throughout the process guests. Yes yeah you know and so like invest where I got that commercially from right and I still have caused that I generate from that original lists or those original mailings and so so I started there and at that point so I had quit my painting Anthony Funny I did a painting franchise. <hes> do not for one year and I was writing. This incredible high in. That's when I kinda doubled down on myself like again real estate it was new for me. I spent more on that mentorship program that I should have and I've put me in an uncomfortable situation but I think you have to be uncomfortable to make big big moves in really push yourself beyond your limits and so you know I thought I was going to be flipping a house within a couple of months turns out not the case it took me. You know I went back. I ended up spending like you said about eight months or so learning and and I went back and ran my painting company second year and and so this was then <hes> twenty fourteen I finished it and then I almost doubled my business with the painting company and I had enough cash in the bank at that point to like be comfortable trebol in like really figure things out so twenty fourteen to twenty fourteen or early twenty fifteen I think is when I went full time so I when I first decided decided to go into real estate also got my broker's license so that was again. I just wanted to learn like I didn't understand the terminology of real estate like I just it was a foreign thing for for me so I got my broker's license and then I hung it a year later so I did it just to learn than in Twenty fifteen is when I hung it and I went full time at that point. I think I've only done one wholesale deal. I met with sellers a bunch of times I had learned a lot. I was networking two two to three times a month even so as building the buyer's list all the things that they say to do when you're getting started right just get out of their network meet the right people crew buyers. Try to find fine contractors is I'm trying to do everything at once and then it really took off when I when I went fulltime so basically the year I went full time I did a couple of transactions traditional broker just to kind of again. Learn the process right understand. This is what a transaction should look like and then after after that I was like okay this is it now. It's fulltime investing so once I decided to just really hone in on that I I was still sending direct mail L. still networking. Might I flip that I ever got. I liked to joke and say I'm able to get free houses so in my career I've gotten maybe about ten of these free. Houses <unk> six so a free house is it's a seller financing deal essentially but when I first got started I had No money really to speak of in so I was able to negotiate deals to have one hundred percent free from the seller no money deposits them at all. I had them pay for the <hes> carrying cost taxes all their own closing costs everything and then I borrow the money to do the renovation so absolutely zero money out of my own pocket get and the sellers were stoked also ended up being really good deals for them too so why why would the seller do that. Why would somebody sell their house and then have to you know knock any money? I mean like guy you know right away. Yeah you know every situation is different so I'll tell you the the I flip that I did I ever flipped by. It was down in Tacoma. This was a it it was not technically a duplex but it was set up as a duplex. I met these sellers through direct mail. I met with them. I got this under contracts to wholesale. They just didn't WanNA listed. They were like the house is it was it was in okay shape. It wasn't like most of my projects are now but it was like really cosmetic and they just didn't WanNA listed. They didn't want to the process. They just wanted easy sale they they were just done with it right and then when I wasn't able to wholesale it I was like I know this is a deal I guarantee this is a deal so I went back to the southern caving. Let Me Flip Your House as like I can. I can get this done for you. I know that there is no money to be made here for both of us in I can and do this for you. I will finance the renovation. I had no money to finance renovation but I knew I would find that money so I told him I'll do do everything forty all listed when we're done and it'll take you know maybe three or four weeks masks to renovate the house will listed <unk> so so they said yes I put together this hodgepodge contract of lease options slash purchase and sale agreement slash no idea what I was doing but they were happy with it right so they did everything they signed it. All Day continued to pay the mortgage payments and then I borrowed about I partnered with the another investor which something that I I definitely recommend anyone who's new and that doesn't understand the process of a flip and I did that in that we both you you know put in. I think it was like twelve thousand dollars each something like that. I borrowed it from a friend they finance their side and then it was super cosmetic renovation like we just did hardware paint fix portion of a roof and just a bunch of little miscellaneous things and then yeah elicit in sold it within a couple of weeks and I flip was was done after that that's that's cool all right so the seller financing angle I mean I talk a lot about seller financing because I'll tell you about my first apartment complex complex <hes> a smorgasbord of different creative things but like I tell you about my mobile home park recently like I really liked seller financing where the seller carries a contract for those who I don't know what that means the best way I can explain it in simple terms of imagine you wanted to sell your car to your brother and your brother didn't have any money so you give him the car and then he makes payments to you sell them for five thousand but he pays five hundred bucks a month for the next ten months like that seller financing and people seem to understand that with cars but then when you get the houses. I don't understand seller financing same thing. Isn't that funny. It's the same with the birth strategy yeah. What do you mean you? Don't use a loan when you buy the House you get exactly turn it into a car. They're like Oh. I could go take a note it on a car. That's paid off yeah yeah exactly yes exactly as I understand the car thing much easier. I I love that strategy a super cool. I think I think more people it should ask about that. I did this study now. It's been a few years since I did this. Research might be slightly different today but back when I wrote the book on investing in real estate with no money down I done research hurts that showed that it was a third of all houses in America were owned free and clear it was like a third it was crazy like which means that those are all good opportunities for seller financing and even if it's not own unclear like you said they can you can do a wrap. You can do a lease option. You can do <hes> subject to there's a lot of different ways to do it the key though with all of that is you gotta get a good deal. You could actually make money on if you're GONNA flip it if you can't resell it and you're in trouble but you know the the foundation says a lot of the foundation of creative investing is getting a great deal which clearly you did air now. I WANNA go back real quick. I'm curious looking at that period of time. which was it sounds like I mean correct me? If I'm wrong here. It sounds like a couple of years between I paid for for this mentorship or I got excited about real estate and now in full time I'm actually doing this. I'm a real investor. I'm doing this. There was that was that was a time period. If you're looking back on that giving even yourself advice you got a time machine you gave advice during that period by the beginning of that period. What would you tell yourself too short in that period so you didn't waste or not even waste? I don't call wasted. You're you're working your network on but what would you do differently to give yourself some advice from the start of that that makes sense yeah no totally and it was it was about a year so it was like I that of like just trying to learn and really get into it so I would say I kind of appreciate that. It took me a little bit of time because I know how difficult it is to get to that point but I think think if I were able to accelerate it quicker I would say to spend more time finding someone that I could have more as not like Giga. Maybe a weekly mentor but someone that I could help more to be able to help me right because you need to add to other people also an I did. I think I did a really really good job of networking and meeting a lot of people but me just as a person I suck it asking for help. Lessen fairly then I'll ask for it but in terms of finding the right connections to be able to help kind of grow together I think about one found someone in the industry that was already successful at doing in this which I I met a lot of people like that and just maybe try a little bit harder to really add value to their business or help. Bring them deals or whatever it is they were looking for. I think that would have accelerated. Did it quite a bit for me but because I'm someone that I just really wanted to do it myself and I was like oh I can just do this on my own. It definitely took me a little bit longer to really get my bearings brings in into the industry so I would say you know finding finding a solid through slash mentor slash best friend Nice Nice Nice. I met this guy the other day <hes> here in Maui we ran into each other and you the bigger pockets guy and he he got his start. He's flipping flipping houses in L._A.. Alex so what's up with Alex so he s are flipping houses in L._A.. And the way he got started was by like working for a big flipper where he basically was gone the door knocking and like I just really liked hitting the ground get deals and then eventually got to the point where he was out there doing he understood it. Then he went worked for another investor where he got a piece of the equity the flips and then he did like sixty flesh guy where he got like. I don't know what it was twenty five percent or something like that of whatever they did but they work together so it was almost like he was a part owner in those and then just recently gently went on at his own now and has done a handful of deals on his own and he's going full time now and I love that progression now that everyone has to do that but he's like rather than just like I don't know what I'm doing. I'm doing this like he's like. I'm going to learn from people who are just like the best that are already doing it and take my steps up and is thought that was super cool so and it's kind of what it sounds like you're saying it's find somebody that you can theo meet regularly with mentor from if it's working for them or if it's being a partner with them whatever is growing along someone else has been there yeah yeah that's that's the best way for sure. I think actually actually engage traction faster in this business but again. It's a fine line rights. I have people that call me all the time in just like hey teach me <unk> yeah. Go ahead and teach you it has to be given to also just it's difficult to find that good balance but if you do man you just hang onto that and you just be a sponge and learn as much as you can because then when you really do decide to make that leap and go all in you know you're you're the person supporting yourself mix doing well for a long time that the world's world's been spinning. That's exactly how people learn new trade is. They were an apprentice and they worked for somebody else for free and they got an education and they were valuable enough that they could get apiece and they became an employee and then eventually became a partner and then if they were really good they would take the business over or they would go leave and do their own thing. That's really the best way to learn anything is just kind of in the society we live in now. We've got these concepts like minimum wage labor laws so people feel like if they're working for free. They're being taken advantage of but in reality you're getting way more from an on the job training than most people probably get paying for education at a college. There's people that will pay one hundred thousand dollars to get a four year a degree in something that may or may not make the money but they wouldn't give up for years of their life apprentice and learn that trade and when they're done they're crushing it selling tons of house so sure so tell us. Can you give us an overview. Of How many houses are you selling a month right now. Are they wholesale or they flipping. What's an overview of your business right now yeah so my business right now so I <hes> I have the brokerage side that I'm currently building out so I have to buyer's agents on my team? I then have my flipping business which I'm shooting to purchase around thirty this year flips in then I have my general contracting business which is kind of starting to go hand in hand with everything else as I as I grow so in terms of properties per month. I'm doing a few traditional transactions right now at and then right now I have six six houses for sale. I have one that's closing tomorrow which is at one that was sold last week looking to buy three more houses to flip and then I also have a six unit townhouse development which I'm really excited about. I'm looking to break ground on that in about a month yeah all right so I mean that's that's thirty. flips is not a small insignificant number. I mean that's that's pretty pretty awesome. So what is your go through a few questions about this but like I what is your company look like in terms of. Let's talk just the flipping side. How many people are doing is it? Just you operations managers. You have Brazil manager like what the actual structure Your Business Look like for that so right now. It's I try to run things lean and mean right so like just for just for my investing company J.j went homes is the just the investing company so I have <hes> myself. I have an office as manager who does a lot of the paperwork as as you know buying and selling real estate. There's a good amount of paperwork then I have a fulltime project manager and then I have an acquisition just manager and then recently as I am working really really hard to remove myself from the business I you know I enjoyed the business still for sure I enjoyed designing and project managing a lot of that stuff but as I wanNA grow in expanding all these different areas I'm working really hard to have the right people in the right places assists now. I have a designer as well and then I'm still working on really fine tuning everything to where I'm not that you know the the person holding things out whether it's material orders or design choices or whatever it is so that's something that I'm actually working really hard in my business right now to do so I can spend my time. I'm doing fine. The bigger more exciting deals like development deals or mobile home park could be like you brandon. I don't know that's that's something. Brandon are hearing all the time and I think we're both talking to each other about it and we're hearing other people say it's this concept. It's always coming up that I'm trying to remove myself from the best yes so what happens is there's this progression of. I need to be an apprentice. I need to learn everything and then you learn it and if you're good at it then you become successful and you very quickly realize man. I'm I'm flipping all these houses but could save money if I had agents to sell it for me and if I owned the construction company I could save money there and when I'm not flipping a house they can make money you start seeing all these ancillary ways that you can create income so then you go do all that and then you realize I'm spread too thin that piece right there is where most people just keep keep hitting the ceiling and they can't get any higher they'd get stuck in this like washing machine of getting turned over and over and over that they can't get out of. Can you give us some advice about or maybe some strategy the <hes> of how you got there what you're doing to get yourself out of it. What skills are required in order to make that transition yeah so for me? It's exactly what you're talking talking about right so it's really easy to just start saying okay well. I'll just do this and then I'll just do this and then when you have that many projects going in your spread across everything it really makes as you sit back and think capable now wearing too many hats and I'm trying to manage to many things on my own so for for me. It really has been a big focal appoint to figure out how I can system is everything and empower all of my team members to own their roles also and be excited about it so for me. It's interesting to see the natural progression of business. I used to love being on site. During the day to day man. I'd walk onto a job that they just for flooring almost jumped out of my shoes. This is amazing like holy crap flooring in here so it goes it goes from that kind of feeling to now. I have eight eight houses under construction. I'm not getting excited about flooring going at him like mark guys by the floorings admitted last week so figuring out how to empower your employees and team members to feel that same way has been something I spent a good amount of time on you know. It's really just to be a good leader figuring out what motivates it's people how you can keep everyone excited about the job is something that is kind of a continuous struggle I think and then making sure that you have the right people in the right positions positions is he may have somebody who may not be as detail oriented being a project manager and they have no right to be in that position because you need to be on top of all of these little details so I think understanding the roles really well is super important and understanding kind of what the team structure should look like to be able to run smoothly and that's why again like I do have my brokerage side of the business and then my construction side and then also the investing side and I'm trying to figure out how to make all of that work cohesively to where I'm not the person who has to be telling people what to do or asking where we're at on projects. It's hey. We haven't seen meeting every week. Hey here's is where route with all the projects. Here's what the timelines are projecting to being done you know. What do you need from me at this point? So one thing that I've noticed is there's two kinds signs of mindsets that usually everybody has one of the two. There's one mindset that says hey. I'm here to help you out jared. If you need some help let me know. I'll make a phone phonecall. I'll handle a thing. I'll go check on a job. I JUST WANNA learn. Just I want to help and there's another mindset that says I want to take responsibility for a result there and they say it sounds like a subtle difference but it manifests itself wildly different whereas the person who says I'm taking responsibility for this piece of your business or this result. You don't have to check in with that person and say. Where are we with this or go do that? You're not giving them tasks. Their responsibility is to figure out what needs to be done and to do it and the reporting to you how well they're doing as opposed to the person with the helper mindset which is really just a way of that person avoiding responsibility so they don't have to fail. They don't have to feel like I messed up right. There's there's no pressure when you're just helping out someone those people you're constantly going to in your like. Can you do this. Can you do that. Why didn't you do that? Okay go do that and then they do it and they come back to you and say what's next and it's really not saving that much time because you're still having to figure out the solution cities problems that are popping up. Has that been something that you've seen as well. Oh and have you figured anything out to help navigate that issue. I mean I wanted to say yes about six seven times as you're talking is not right and you headed literally like right on the head and the fact that that comes down to having the right people in the right positions. You know if they're asking you what's next. What's next what's next like? Why do I need you like I'm just giving you all? These tiny little tasks that here's the outline. You need to follow what the flow is for the job right. You need to understand what it needs to look like so <hes> so what was your question again because I got distracted. Have you found any any method of like like ways you interview people or where to look for people or how to set a tone. What have you done to be able to pull people into the you need to take responsibility mindset as opposed to the you're just here to help out right? I think a lot of that is GONNA be man. I guess yes the interview. Process is definitely important. You need to be able to understand people's personality types. Also you know I'm someone that's been around. I'm one of <unk> seven kids first of all in the middle so I've seen all of the personalities right so understanding people's kind of mentality early on I think is really important. <hes> yes going through a proper interview. Process is very very important and I. I'm a believer in this slowed to hire quick fire mentality right so first project manager major I ever brought on it was kept asking me for work asking for the job and I was like I don't really need someone right now and then when I did it was kind of more like an intern type of move right. You can come on here show you what I'm doing and then kind of earned that role so I'm a big believer in you know. I'm going to kind of show show you what to do but you need to be able to earn the right to kind of grow within that position as well so like show me what you're worth right. Everyone wants to come on him. You A hundred thousand dollars a year right away like like okay well. I'm glad you gladly pay you that but that's prove that you're worth that right. Let's put you in this position that we have clear guidelines in in then tracking everything is really important to understanding the full process through project right seeing what it should look like all the way through and making sure that you give your employees always in team members in whoever appropriate guideline so they know what to follow also because if I'm not giving them enough instructions from the beginning then it's just as much John me if they're not falling through getting getting things done. That's great yeah. I think if you're listening to this and you're if you're the person who the majority of our listeners I I believe our that's thinking how do I break into the real estate game and you'll hear Brandon. I say well find a mentor or go learn from someone else. If you understand what jared saying he's he's basically saying I'm dying for someone that can step in and take something off my plate and do it well. I will I will assist you. I'll give you all the pieces I need but I need someone that can run on this project and I have a world of opportunity for that person and you know that the ping the missing is that most human beings have a helper mindset not responsibility mindset. That's what you have to approach that person with if you show up to that person that you want to mentor with and say let me run these projects. Here's the pieces that I need to know and I could do it for you your way more likely to get that help then when you show up and say hey just tell me if there's anything you need. I'll go walk property more you every once in a while because I see this from my my role. I'm the same position you are with by growing real estate team and my investing and the books I'm writing and everything else. There's a big gap between the people that want to break into an industry and the people that have done it that are trying to go to the next level and if we can get everybody with the same mindset. I feel like that gap would be bridge lot faster yeah totally hey. I hope you enjoyed today's show but before we go any further I did want to bring in today's show sponsor Sir so stay tuned and we'll be back to interview in just a moment blinking summarizes a ton of great books like fifteen minutes so if I'm interested in no let's say goal all setting. Let me see what's in the library here. There's the best year ever by Michael Hyatt fantastic book the Desire Map by Daniel Port and one of my favorites the four disciplines of execution I love books obviously right but and I love the feeling of knocking out a couple books simply while I like work out or do things around the house and if you're like me and you're on the move a lot you'll love how you can either read or just listen to the summary of these books like eight million people are using blankets and check this this out they're offering us. A special. Deal is a free seven-day trial so check it out with no strings attached. Just go to blink EST dot com slash pockets to now from your phone right now. Go ahead. I'll wait blink dot com slash pockets spelled blinking B. L. I. N. K. I. S. T. dot com slash pockets. According to studies only about ten percent break INS are planned beforehand. 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It's everything for me it because I run this as a business also in it's not a hobby for me so I'm just constantly marketing a lot of different ways that I try different things also which I I enjoy so one of the biggest things that I'm very very consistent about though is every time I buy a house we are put signs outside of the property so I said Jerry buys houses signs that I put out there and then I also also have a nice company signed rights says J.j when homes equality renovation coming soon the company of the website and then also you know we also buy properties opry's market value Blah Blah Blah so I put signs outside of all of my properties very first thing in that I immediately have my acquisition manager. Go introduce themselves to basically the whole neighborhood right the canvas a good portion of the neighborhood and it's not to knock on their door and say hey. I want to buy your house. It's to say hey we actually just purchased this house right down on the streets. We're going to be working here for about six to eight weeks. Here's our information. If you ever have any questions or issues or interested to see the house when we're done. You know here's all of our our info. Please let us know if you need anything at all and by the way we are looking to buy another house while we're in the area. I love that man so it's like a so it's like a warm intro right. It's not one hundred percent gold hall. It's were in the area. We want to be nice and I've gotten deals that way too and on top of that because I work in south west Seattle title is like my primary areas at work like thirty minute radius of downtown Seattle but that's kind of where I I spend most of my time. A lot of people know me now right so like like I've had people like Oh my God. You're jared like yeah. I need to buy a Houses I I love just good brand. That's good brandy and people get to know you. They know what you do. It's very clear and it's easy and I've had I've literally had a neighbor the House that I currently live in. Actually I had a neighbor. Call me one day she i. I've done a lot of business again in west Seattle. She's seen a bunch of my projects and she loved it. She called me on a hey. My neighbors WHO's outside. He's mowing his lawn. I know that it's no longer rented anymore. You should come by the House I literally jumped in my car. I drove over there. Park tonight casually walked over. Oh Hey it was just driving by and I noticed you're maintaining your your yard. Whatever and I ended up buying that house and I know Nice yeah it was it was terrific? You know and I didn't edition got it now. I live in that neighborhood and I kept it for myself because again like you know it's it's cool to be part of this community that I'm rebuilding also in people again appreciate what you do you so by me broadcasting that I think it sets me a little bit part too because again. I'm not doing this as quickly as I can as cheap as I can. Just get in and out. What is the business for me so I treated that way so back to your question terms of marketing? That's one thing that I'm religiously consistent about is getting my brand out there as much as possible than when we finish we invite neighbors over again. Hey come look at the house. You know come to the open house so that's one big way. I don't do as much direct mail anymore anymore. I kinda stopped off on that a couple years ago because I was getting a lot of wholesale deals sent to me so just because I've networked so much I know a lot of people out several properties property sent to me each week in their deals in quotation so still analyze those and make sure that they're they're done right and then something trying. I'm doing like a little bit of a combination of marketing now. Actually I have a small billboard above the West Seattle Bridge and then I'm actually getting a larger billboard that goes live actually like this this week. It should go up and I'm GonNa that's just gonNA say jared buys houses on it and so it's going to drive traffic to my website some hoping that's going to be able to get me some some good but he pay for a billboard deals on the billboard. Actually what does a typical person pay for a billboard like that so honesty is various so when I joined the B._B._B.. Actually Salihi they started calling me just giving me a lots of advertising opportunities and so to be honest that billboard above the West Originally GonNa cost me about eleven hundred bucks a month which is laying amazing and it's part of the deals with the B._B._B.. That they get and I just by forming this relationship with this marketing advertiser. She would just constantly insulate. Call me in but I'd be interested in billboard opportunity if the price is right that price is right so so I said you know yes on that but it depends on location and everything they can can be that's the cheapest I've seen and they can be you know ten grand a month. If you just go straight there who like you know the back Lamar that the company that owns the butcher boy and here's what people oh I'm sure that people are now listening and this is just marketing one. Oh one but it might they might change somebody's mind set. I know somebody out there. thinking ten grand a month for you eleven hundred dollars they could be ten grand a month for a billboard. I would never pay. I could never afford ten grand a month but the beauty of marketing like we've asked me what's my marketing budget. I'm like that doesn't exist. There's no such thing it's it's Eh it's unlimited as long as marketing produce a result if I spend ten grand a month on a billboard and I make a hundred thousand dollars a month on flipping properties because I billboard it pays for itself if I paid a billion dollars for a billboard but I made a billion you know one point one billion dollars back in return than it's worth it so I like this shift at a lot of people just say well. My marketing budget is this and Michael Stop. Thinking in terms of my marketing. Budget are thinking what's my return on investment of my marketing. That's the more important and thing there so anyway and then just I love that you said it's not one thing it's everything you know and the beginning though like if you're just getting started somebody listening to this show right now they're. They're trying to get their first deal there where you were five years ago. What would you advise for them to do? Just a what's the first thing they should do to start getting leads coming in like if you had to give him like do do this do this do this. You'll get something for your consistent. I would say I it's GONNA come down to. I think you either need to trade your time or your money right so if down one or the other than you need to forget which one you can contribute right so if you are broken you don't have any money to finance anything at all no marketing budget than I would say eight network right. Get Your Butt out there and you put as much time as you can knock doors in network do everything that's free right. Look on look online for all the for sale by owner websites rides classified ads anything that's free. That's what you need to concentrate on but if you have more money than time right then it's then it's really more concentrate on one the thing right for me. I diversify marketing because I think it's fun honestly and I like to do a lot of different things but I can afford to try different things right so if you are if you have you know a good amount of money for marketing budget than yeah it's important focus. I think really on one thing headed pretty hard because if you just do like a little bit of <unk> direct mail and maybe a little bit of online marketing and a little bit of bandit signs you're GonNa get a little bit of results right. You might get one call off one of those and then you think okay. This is stupid. It doesn't work and nobody can do this great answer. I think a lot of people yeah they jumped from thing to thing to thing I think it's good to get consistent. Get good at something and when you like awesome at that and you're cranking out leads whatever yeah expanded something else expanded something else and pretty soon you may have twenty different ways to find deals by. I made a video on the bigger pockets youtube page. If you don't know a few weeks back call twenty-seven ways defined incredible deals and it just walks through there's a lot of different ways and yeah one of them was billboard because I'm not done a billboard but I know a lot of people have I know people have done TV. Commercials paid one hundred thousand dollars for T._V.. Commercial but it made sense to them yeah so anyway I put this really really elaborate marketing plan together a couple of years ago when I was like business was just starting to take off in it was like it was everything from WHO's on the grand marketing to putting posters in neighborhoods to bus bench ads geofencing to billboards to S._E._O.. To like this really really cool long marketing plan plan with a group of people and when it came time to put the money up like everyone fizzled out okay well I'm still going to do this. Guy Is like that's funny time but yeah it's like you said there's so many different ways to market and being consistent at whichever one you really WanNa do is is what's going to generate generate leads where you yeah that's great. I often hear the phrase you know. What's the best like? What's the best workout in the gym? It's the one you do consistently. You know what's the Best C._R._M.. It's the one you use consistently. What's what's the best marketing technique for real say deals the one you do consistently like the one that you can just get out there and do all right cool dude last question I got before each of the deep dive? I've what habits do you have in your life or habit or habits that most contribute to your success. Is there anything that you do regularly or a habit that so you have that you feel like really helps in your business or in your life yet one habit. That's a good question. I would say you know for me. I think the just drive to push myself. I guess like so for me. I don't have one specific heavy. Yes being consistent doing all these things in on your goals and goal goal setting radloff like fifty things but I think for me is the motivation to continue to want more because whatever I set a goal for myself if I I I hate it. I feel like I said it too low. I feel cheated myself right so like whenever I set goals for myself is continuing to push it to a point to where it makes me feel uncomfortable. Oh or I think I can't quite get there and then if I do get there then I think I said it too low right so I think the biggest thing is not settling and continuing to kind pushback pass these glass ceilings you know run into as I go through my business alike it. Everybody everybody should read the one thing by Jay Patterson and Gary Keller Rated Brennan Yes yeah and in Chapter Two they talked about geometric progression and it's this idea that a one is domino can knock down another domino. That's one and a half inches bigger so when you realize that your goal is more than what you're able to knock down at your current domino you just need to put a domino inbetween them or maybe three or four domino's inbetween them to build up so if you say man I wanna be able to buy one hundred thousand dollars or put that much money into putting a billboard up but I don't have that much money one bad month and I'd be wiped out or or I don't have the infrastructure in place to handle all the phone calls well then the the domino right before that would be have a budget that I can support one hundred grand a month for six months before I do it and one domino before that might be put a team in place that can handle this many leads and then slowly start working back with what you have to do to get to that point and now you've got a business plan like legit legit a to g whatever the steps are to get to that point. You're trying to get to and you just systematic. Start working your way there and I think on that on that same note like if if if you were to ask me five years ago if I if I thought I could be flipping you know ten twelve houses at once and also about about to break ground on a six unit townhouse development. I would earn crazy like I thought it was insane to own two or three houses at once you know so like I've just continue to push past asks these whatever goals that I set throughout the time and then you start realizing I can do this. You just have to have this infrastructure. You have to have these things in place checks and balances and Dan. That's how you'll be able to continue to push past that so it's spot on fantastic did all right well. Let's head over the next segment of the show. It's the deal deep dive. What could I ever when it's Brandon? Hey I'm gonNA take a quick break from this podcast episode to invite you to this week's upcoming Webinar how to analyze rental properties for maximum casual well. I mean look I think you all we all know. Rental Properties can be one of the best ways to build wealth and passive income but if you don't have the right math ooh scary word good into a deal you'll never get the right product traffic coming out of it so level up your analysis skills by attending this free Webinar just go to bigger pockets dot com slash analysis webinar. That's analysis analysis Webinar and we'll talk all about how to estimate the current future value income expenses repairs cashflow Kabaka and more again bigger pockets analysis Webinar in our and that is free. I'll see you there. This is the part of the show where we dive deep into one a year deals Jarrod so you got something in mind I do do I do another one. That's free houses that I like so much perfect died so that's the question is what kind of property is it. Is it a single family rental single family or multi single-family flip all right and how did you find it con- this through direct mail and a lot of follow up to be honest. It took a while to put together. Okay how much was the property so I ended up getting a seller financing deal for four hundred and five thousand right all right and how did you negotiate that price so I as I told you guys earlier. I really do my best to offer as many options as possible so I think that people love their options and so this is a house that was in North Beacon Hill Bury old house in this was I think in twenty sixteen I believe leave the market was pretty pretty hot and Seattle still but not a ton of really solid slip comps in the area so I had offered three seventy five to the seller <unk> cash which still made me a little bit nervous at the time but I felt like it could be a deal and then I offered I think to listed for him for like four twenty and then for oh five was the <hes> the partnership offer so I gave him those three options we went back and forth for a while and then he agreed to four or five years. I can wait a few months. He's like I'm not in a hurry. This is a rental also he agreed to four oh five and on top of that he agreed to finance the entire renovation for me okay so that's cool again. The question is I asked earlier not asking. Why did this guy want to do that? Like why would he do that and not just sell it to somebody else who didn't have to carry the financing yeah. You know what's funny is. This person actually is one of my primary investors in my business now and what I WANNA point out here is the fact that you literally never know now the other side of the table thinking you have you have no idea you don't know what they're looking for out of this transaction most the time where you don't know what they're kind of long-term bowls are so turns out this guy had met with a lot of people he owns a lot of real estate as family does so they get letters all the time. They're always having people reach out and Dan apparently there's been a lot of people that sat in that chair in front of him and you know gone over these potential options and he was very interested in starting a investing relationship so I didn't know this until the deal was over either so so you know what I offered in these three three options. He felt confident that I knew what I was is doing. At that time I had done two flights but none like explain in a little bit and so we don't WanNa give him these options. He felt good about it and he told me Halo Kid if you can do this is like if you can do this deal then we can do big things together in the future cool yeah and so do I give them the options he chose our and and that's what I love. I love the options thing. I love that you said you don't know what the other person is thinking God that all I know that and I forget it all the time. This just happened yesterday with one of my buyer's agents that there is a house listed for like five eighty or something and we wrote an offer at five forty and they didn't even respond to it because it was so low and the buyer's agent was really frustrated like I just don't know what to do. I think they don't WanNa they won't sell it for five forty and I said have you asked your clients. If they're okay just paying asking price no well. Why don't you try that? I ask them if they've even run the numbers to see if it will work at asking so he does and and they come back and they're like Oh yeah we would totally pass you for this. This is a great deal and ask it. We just wanted to cheaper. We almost walked away from that whole thing 'cause no one thought to even ask the clients. What price as are you okay for? We came up with something in the middle which was still better for the buyers and much happier for the sellers and we're going to contract today and it was just a reminder of like. How many do things in life do I miss out on because I don't even bother to ask a question? I just make this assumption that this is the way it is but yeah the seller might not might not even care that he could sell it to someone else without seller financing. It doesn't mean anything. Are you say well. I'll give you a return on the money that you handle with the seller financing of extra three or four percent and they're like oh cool. I'M SMARTER THAN I'm getting right now. Let's do it so thank you for bringing that up. I think it's really good for people to to be reminded including me. Don't assume that stuff so this property. What did you end up doing with it? Oh my God I rebuilt the entire house by I don't swing a hammer so like my contractor the entire house more or a little bit more details on the deal so when we're negotiating all of this I say I can bring the Pun for one hundred and twenty thousand dollars renovation on it. This house was built like nineteen ten I think and Dan he was like okay well. What if I financed at four you was like well I mean I might be able that might work at scare the crap out of me to the honest because I'm doing this partnership with this guy? I'm thinking I'm going to work for free right. He can use me. We have joint venture agreements. We sign everything I actually secured the funds with a deed of trust on the House so we put a second energy to trust. Is it elaine right so we put a second on the House to cover one hundred twenty thousand and I was still kind of worried. I was like it seems too good to be true in kind kinda scary to have this guy. Give me a house for free and then he's going to finance one hundred and twenty thousand dollars for it also by doing that though I paid him ten percent on his funds for the renovation jobs so this is all looking really good for for him. He's GonNa get paid more because we're going to partner on the deal and he gets ten percent on the one hundred twenty grand so we get into the and ended project. It's all great. I'm having him jumping out of my shoes and flooring goes in you know all that all that good stuff but we start on this. We start on this house and the original plan was down in the basement so this is a one story with basement again early. Nineteen hundreds home and my original plan was okay. We'll will there is about maybe an interest flooring on the ground we can remove that. We're hoping to be able to shave maybe three quarters of an inch or so off the ceiling and we'd have like six foot four six foot six foot five six foot six basement which is short right like that's now I don't. I won't even look at anything if it's at least six foot seven because it's just get into too small there so that was the plan right. We started doing all the demo we demo the downstairs and I find out okay well. We don't have the extra room and on top of that. This lab is be to crap like it's just crap. It's broke in terrible shape so bene- Mike Okay okay well I mean we can dig it out right so that's super easy not in the budget either we had like a couple of thousand dollars or something for like you know the head room in the basement or whatever so I get hit with this and I and I go back to the seller and I'm like hey so here's the first thing that we ran into like and it was partially his his idea also like here's what we can do the okay well. Let's just dig the basement out like okay. I go to my contract and my came in. Can you do this. Do you know how to do this. The game <unk> we can do that. That's no problem any he has a lot of experience and he did know how to do it. So so we start doing that we end up demoing the basement walls and they referred out really far answer those of you that don't note Ferdinand's it means there were studs outside of where the foundation Walsworth so they were like flutter order so will wait from it and so I'm out looking for more deals and Mike Contractor calls me. He's a K jared. I have some bad news and I'm like I know thanks. I don't want any bad news. Good news is like the house is literally falling over and I was like what do you mean it's falling over. He's he's like you should come over here right away and I'm like Oh my God I can't I don't know what to do over this house. Go down to the basement and he he shows me these walls previous owner at some point in the early nineteen hundreds had literally walls about a foot away from it because the House I was completely falling over like the pony walls that go from the foundation that connects to the floor joist on the first level at all started to lean about six six to eight inches on the entire house had a little bit of a gangster Leeann just kind of leaning to the side and and supported afforded by putting two by fours around it and then they just fertile the walls out to make it look like it was supposed to be that way on top of that the two by fours were cut at the angles the top so you had about an inch actually supporting the second floor so so that was a pretty pretty scary thing for me and I asked my contract and like well. What are we going to do here and he's like well? We have to pour all new foundation walls around the entire Rim eter. We also have to rebuild the entire pony walls all the way around meanwhile meanwhile unipolar permits on all my projects also like everything has to be done to Code dun-rite. We're doing all this is like Oh. We'll also have to seismic retrofitted. We also so have to build sheer walls this humongous addition of work. They just came out of nowhere he hits me and again like would you do go back to the seller. Hey by the way your house the total <unk>. It's it's falling over. It's GONNA cost us about an extra twenty thousand dollars dollars to do this this work. What are we going to do and he's like well? We have to do it right like we can't do anything else like we do so that happens in. We keep moving forward I in this. This is the biggest project I had done to date at this time and I'm dealing with phone. Call after phone call. The city comes out. They red tagged because my electrical. My Electricity hadn't pulled his permit before he started word so they saw some wiring done so they shut me down. I had every single department from this Humvee streaky. It comes by Oh hey. What are you guys doing? Oh you need to have a permit to be able to park next to the house in case you pull over onto the driveway. Driveway Hummer is like everybody comes by scariest crappiest worst couple weeks of my of my investing career that point but everything gets ironed so now we get it all taken care of we only red tagged for a short time until my electricity got his permit polled and then got everything handled and then one one one additional thing kind of icing on the cake we then found out when my electrical starts going going in kind of getting everything done that probably the same time that the previous owner had built these Janke pony walls they had also bypassed the electrical meter from the city power and and just ran straight to the basement of the house so they had been stealing power for Oh yeah man it was so many crazy things has happened on the House that I just never knew could happen which is amazing learning learning lessons for me though and so we get it done though right everything everything keeps moving forward and we we complete all of the work and I'm really stressed out of this point were into it about one sixty five so we're forty five thousand over budget aged. Thank God the owners still had the funds to be able to pay for all of this right otherwise I'd be hunting for new money and trying to figure everything out so we finished the House for sale and I put it for sale about anything about twenty or thirty thousand higher than I had originally planned. I originally planned on listing and I think it's six twenty. We put it at six fifty. I'm just really stressed out on the broker as well so I hold the first open house. It goes really great this. This lady comes out. She's she's in the house for about an hour. She comes back with agent later. I had no reviewed eight at the time and then I ended up I was I went to a show with friends that night and I had been texting with the <unk> a real estate agent from the ladies on the view the House She's I K- would you guys accept an offer earlier like would you accept an offer. Now is like yeah we totally would like. It needs to be really strong. Though because one day on the market You that's awesome all right so then then remind me a you mentioned earlier but did you end up splitting some kind of profit with the the seller who carried it all or did you get all the profit. He just got his four zero five yeah so he got his four zero five and then he got ten percent on his money to finance it as well okay okay and that was one hundred twenty k. net profit on that deal. I was so happy I was like I gave the seller a ten thousand dollar cash bonus that was like an we are in this together bonus my contractor also because it was just like we'd we'd all been through. Don't do you went you went to Hell in a war together there. There was a day Mike contractor called me music jared. I had a dream that the house fell over element. I wonder if I you know we never asked this question but I wonder how much the contractor learned from that job with you. Got increased his confidence when he went to bid other jobs or more efficient efficient stuffy did like we always talk about the nightmare things like Oh. It was horrible but I bet if we reverse engineer success a lot of skills we picked up that leads us is being successful came out of those projects. Oh that's the I couldn't. You can't pay for that education. Yeah I mean like going through that. It gave me so much confidence in him. He's been been with me since day. One like we've done probably forty flips together. I would say he's done three hundred thousand dollar flips for me right so that was like that that was the biggest one at that point and after that I was like man if you can do this like we can do any you guys you went to a firefight in Afghanistan together and you know best friends and now you're joined at the hip God. Yes that's funny yeah. That's what it's like with Brandon and I tried to teach me how to surf. There's more ha exactly the same thing clarified Afghanistan. We gotta move onto the next segment. It is our fire round all right. It's time for the the fire round. I remember remember that time. You were driving around in a losing of money. No I well if you've ever spotted a run down house. You know like the perfect candidate for a flip or buying whole rental and you didn't have a system of doing anything about it then you might have been leaving money on the table. This is where deal machine comes in is a smartphone APP that lets you and your team pin distressed addressed properties look up the property owner on the spot and send them a personalized postcards and seconds directly from the APP. You can set the mailers on repeat to make sure you won't forget a follow up and while the APP is sending a custom postcard you can look up the owners phone number and email instantly plus. If you want to find off market deals you can build a team of people to drive four you deal machine automates the sign up process and trains your deal finders without you having to lift a finger usually get the track how many properties you're deal. Finders add everyday so go to the deal machine dot com slash B._p.. Fourteen Day free trial and forty bucks worth of mail. That's deal machine dot com as V._p.. She got guys. I ran into the owner the founder founder of deal machine at a conference recently. He walked me through this thing and now I can't stop using it. Have it on my phone. I use it all the time and you gotTa love it so check it out. You'll machine dot com slash B._p.. This is the part show where we pull questions from real life bigger pockets members over in the bigger pockets forums which of course everyone listening should be a checking regularly bigger parts comes forums posting their answering questions asking questions so it's a great community but let's do this number one from Karen it s hello everyone we're great realtor that we work with but we're also interested in making an offer for House that has not curly on the M._L._S. or even up for sale. I know the people do this every day but I wanted to hear your advice for making a cash off on a property without the help of a realtor. What do I do so I know your numbers? I think is the most important and I think something else that it goes back. Never knowing what the other side is thinking what I do every single time when I meet with a seller as I asked him some form of what is your ideal situation Asian right so you need to know do they wanna be out quickly. Do they need to leave it as is do they need to maximize how much they make so I would say finding out what their ideal situation situation is and then being able to tailor kind of your offer around that because everybody again we we never know what the other side is thinking necessarily and numbers making ensure. You're confident in your in your offer so what about the part that isn't just the numbers what about the actual like the escrow and understanding contingencies and like how to communicate what you're thinking to the seller typically were agents are good. They are practicing these people. They don't necessarily know any of that. How would you advise him there? Then really explaining the benefits benefits of working with someone like yourself right so it's important to be prepared when you go to that meeting for sure right out a little less like why should they say Asoka. Here's the benefits to selling investor directly like myself. You know we can close when you're ready. You don't have to do any repairs you know just listing through all of the reasons that why they should work with you is going to be important because again it'll it'll give them confidence that you're going to be able to perform and explain them why they should want to work with you beautiful. I love love that so don't just tell them what also tell them why. That's a big thing. Don't assume they know all right next. Question from Stacey white actually really liked this. What rules tips and systems do you? You have in place to make your real estate investment run smoother. What would you have done differently? If you were building Your Business System's knowing what you know now for example would use the same color paint eight for all your properties have a no pets policy etc yeah so I would say that the rules tips and systems so the biggest thing for me right so I do a lot of a lot of flip so being organized early on so things that I have in place are first of all contract with with all the people that I hire and then setting a solid milestones schedule so basically you plan out the entire project so you know when it's going to start when you're going to be hitting these large milestones throughout it like having the flooring done cabinets. It's all that kind of thing and then having finishes picked out earlier is a lot easier. Also you know when you do more than one house at a time. It can be kind of cumbersome to decide ride on exactly what everything should look like so having everything systemized and Organiz in to your contractors in everyone's hands before they need it is one of the big things I think that's important and then if I were to change anything now. I don't think there's any one specific thing that that I would. I Guess Change Right now. It's really just refining holding people accountable probably because for me I get a little bit lackadaisical with holding some people accountable for finishing on time contractors getting done or going over or change orders happening that kind of thing so that's again something I'm currently working on in my businesses trying to streamline things a little bit better so there are less questions from people as you go through the process some good good answer number number number number three with tech companies like zillow and open door getting into the house buying game how investors set themselves apart from these I- buyers that is I think that's a good question in kind of a a hot topic nowadays I've had similar conversations with people Hugh Times recently and I think more than anything else is being kind of the individual instead of both going to you know you go to Zillow Day like disaster forever for instance right. They get this random arbitrary number that they don't really have anything to back it up as so so. If you have the opportunity to actually talk with a seller you can explain them. Hey look we're not just a computer out there running the numbers on this shooting out a a price you right. We're here to talk to you in really listened to what you need and then we can help you get to that together. Instead of again just plugs into an algorithm in this is what it tells us to pay for your house so I I would say maybe trying to touch on the personal level with people more. I think that could be a way to set yourself apart. I love it too great answer. Don't assume that the people that you're talking to even know about those companies or you're going to give a better deal right. A lot of people have no idea who they are and don't care they don't trust them or maybe those companies wanting to be around to your now. You don't know Kennedy. I think the other thing I'm pretty sure zillow charges. I think seven percents fee to the salaries of I remember crappy for that. You know electronic by whatever that they they office no shocking rocking the N._B._C.. There's like companies that will auction off listing and they're like they listed for like fifty percents of market value and they get all these buyers Myers show up and they want to participate in this auction thinking they're going to get a deal and then they said reserved that's at fair value anyways that will never go for and they charge the buyers premium to buy the house so they're paying for their real estate agent fees thinking they're getting a great deal and people just assume like Oh. How can I compete with that well? If you look at it. It's not that good and if you can explain it so the client why hi it's not that good then they'll use you. It's really just you know sales skills that are applied in non sales roles that makes it read that fine print man you know ooh cash offer and then the investor actually isn't going to charge you those extra fees but if you got to have zillow for that cash offer oh by the way there's seven percent. You have to pay US also good advice all right last question. I live in a fairly expensive Barca N._F.. Lift a few houses but really want to crank it up and do more flips this year for those who have done that. What what are you doing for financing all those deals finding yeah so the private lenders I mean that's that's what I have found so you know at this point? I have a few you private lenders that I work with and once you have done a enough of those deals. If you're working in more expensive market like I am out here they take a lot of cash right so each mind deals anywhere anywhere could be the lowest one hundred fifty k. to a quarter million. That's using a hard money loan. So it's a lot of money into what I would say. Once you have a track record tired of doing a few of these deals having credibility pack and about you know yourself returns as I have like investor credibility packet that I use when I meet New People that could be interested sit in investing and giving that to these people that you meet are always being ready for an opportunity to come along. You know you never know when somebody would be interested in investing again. You know I'll go back to that example of that house. Did I ended up that I told you about the deal deep dive that personnel how invest an amazing amount of money with me <hes> and it just happened kind of organically right so being open to these relationships or open to talking talking about money and giving people returns investing. I think there's a lot more people out there that are open to doing this then. You're even aware of so so do you have any advice I'm venturing into my four a of raising money and syndicated and all that here the summer do do you have any advice on how to talk to individuals like credit credit investors. What do you say how do you open those conversations? I mean this is total personal L. Selfish question here but yeah I mean you've done a lot more of that than I have. Maybe I mean for for me. It's I think the biggest thing is building thing that confidence in you so I'll give you an example. I met someone one time that was referred to me from another investor I work with she met him in a garage tale right and he expressed interest in investing for passive returns right so the first thing you really need to figure out his first of all are these people actually investors astor's. Do they have that mindset because there are people that can invest and first of all you need to let people know this needs to be money that you don't need to have any time in the near future like this needs to to be disposable income that you don't need to think about touch that's first and foremost and so going back to this other investor so he expressed some interest in investing and if you have the ability to show them the you know what you're doing. That's the first thing right so I walked him through a House that I put about two hundred in eighteen thousand dollars into at the time we show them the process we pull permits. Here's the information on the wall. Here's my job site folder. Here's all the contractors information occasion be organized and know what you're talking about right and just walk them through and then and just continue that conversation right find out what capacity they want to invest in because again. This is another example. You have no idea what the other side is thinking so I met this guy one time. I have websites. I gave him my website. I gave him the credibility packing the information even messages me. I think a week or so later he's like I mentioned let's find a property. He sends me a house in Magnolia which is a nice established neighborhoods Seattle for nine hundred thousand dollars and he says hey this looks like a house. You could flip in in my mind. I'm like damn like you want to go for the high end stuff okay. This is great terrific. Let me let me look into this right away so I look into the House and it actually looks really good and I make an offer on the house and I ended up getting under contract for eight hundred eighty eight thousand dollars and I say hey so here the options to finance against this project and again people love options. This is something that I just really hammer home with everyone on my team here a couple of options option number one you can the twenty percent down all finance everything else in my hard money lender option number two you can be twenty percent off the renovation budget this house. We're GONNA put about two hundred thousand dollars into Michelle Alex or one point five option three you finance the entire renovation in acquisition everything one point one five million and I I walk through the House with him. I show him we walk around the neighborhood. I'm I'm explaining these options as we were walking back down to his car and he looks at me and he's like okay yeah well. I think I'm leaning towards option number three one point one five million cash a backflip inside of my chest. I never her expected him to say that. You know what I mean like. You don't expect you don't expect that so you know and he didn't so he financed this deal and he put that cash ash up. I leaned position did everything so I tell that story because you have no idea what the other person's thinking you don't you don't know what ability they have to finance <unk> cassidy they have to invest in. This guy tells me hey by the way on what you keep in mind feels like Olsen larger scale things in the future so you know he's someone that I plan on doing develops developments with down the road as well because that's the capacity that he wanted to invest you know being being always ready for opportunities like this to come along and just being prepared in understanding the value that you bring to other people because it two way street right. You're bringing them a ton of value giving them an opportunity to make a great return on something that is backed by something tangible and in return. You know you're starting this relationship with them so it's really a two way street and understanding that it's super important yeah that's so good. That's so good. I really liked the options thing about that. I've never do the options is a lot of times when I when I offer on deal how about you know this price with seller financing or this. Whatever I I love giving two or three options because it makes people think which one versus yes or no but I've I've never ever thought about it in terms of private lending? I've never thought of that so that you just blew my mind just now so this is all worth the cost of this podcast right there yeah well you you say this all the time and since you started saying that I notice it where people like options even if they're all the kind of the same they just don't like it when you try to Pigeonhole Asian hold him into. I'm forcing this down your throat. You have to sell the house. Give it to me that if you give them three options that are all more or less the same team in similar to them their way more likely to take it. He just took that and he took it one level deeper like insomnia right options within options one option seller financing now within seller financing. Here's three ways that we can do it. Okay the euro with that. Maybe here's three ways we make that work which makes it easier for that person to take your hand and kind of walk down to the result that both of you need to get to and on that same no so. Do you know Brandon you. You said it right like all of these options worked for me also case for that for that deal that he finance. I spend I spend thirty forty. Five minutes in our may be really scratched my head in looking okay. We'll if he puts this much money. Here's his return so it was a graduated scale the more money he invested the the lower his return actually was percent wise but because he up more up it was higher because for me is a numbers game. Also I have a hard money lender. I can finance it for less than I would take you but for the ease of transaction. I'm willing to pay you a little bit more percent for this just to be one president deal with that way so you you know whether you're buying a house and you give three options that you went on all of them. They net slightly different amounts. It's the same thing with the private lender and I have several different. The shelters with private lenders is well. You get present. If you just pay for the twenty percent down and then you get a different percent. If you finance the renovation also it's their risk tolerance in it's what what they're willing to invest also and they can get paid more for that does so good yes so good I do this is fantastic and I could probably sit here chat with the all day while the stuff but we gotta move on by the way Lou quick quick side story we're in the middle of potty training my three year old right now and when she uses the princess potty chair she gets a sticker to put under a sticker board brush your teeth yes I have. I've had that lesson before new lesson. She doesn't want a a sticker she needs to decide which sticker she wants and so we give her a pack of stickers and she gets she spends she literally spent like five minutes going uh <hes> dainty like looking at each one too many and then to yeah to me and then she gets it's a little piece of candy. Chocolate chip was a little gummy bear thing and I we have to put both in front of her and she sits on <hes> keep saying until she probably picks what a super excited about her choice anyway. People need choices people all right but not that many keeping civil cut the padded stickers obviously figure options out. She'll just sit there and just go back is so cute anyway moving on it's time for famous aw time for the famous for this questions we ask every guest every week before I fire these four questions action jared. Let's hear what's going on this week league over on the bigger pockets business podcast. Hey there guys the real estate crowd is GonNa love this week's episode of the bigger pockets of business podcast podcast. We have a guy named Max Maxwell. WHO's built a hundred thousand dollars per month wholesaling business? He tells US exactly how he structures his business and how he fires himself from those tasks he doesn't like or isn't good at check out this week's episode of the bigger pockets business podcast and subscribe. We'll see you on Tuesday you all right. Let's get this number. One of the famous four jared was your current favorite or favourite who real estate related book yeah that was is that it took me a while to pin one down to be honest so many good books and it's funny. Actually we talked about earlier so the one thing by Gary Keller is I think a AH really good one that and also confuse you a little bit. That's all good books can absolutely how about your favorite business book favorite <unk> Business Book. I think is GonNa be easy with revisited man that one is was like one of the very first books I read getting into this business in just getting in that mindset super important. I'm reading that right now. Every day. I'm in they're underlining tens of stuck within a few years. Since I really dove into it did I was. We're GONNA bring it up earlier. Actually because you mentioned some Oh meth and then I wouldn't get interviewed on the podcast right he did yeah. Michael Gerber was episode number. I'm not sure but it was a long time ago but if we can put that in the show notes and we will put that in the show notes thank you. Maybe you should have him back. Again may not be a bad idea to go stuff okay. Here's a smart dude back to you jared number three. What are some of your favorite hobbies my favorite hobbies growing my business is the top one and then to great heavy traveling blink for sure and then trying to get out to golf a little bit more as I get some more free time here awesome all right final question from me? What do you think apart successful real investors all those who give up fail or never get started? I really think you know not to be a broken record. I guess but like consistency is important <unk> persevering through things like I think those are the biggest things is just staying motivated and <unk> consistent pushing through whatever you do and goal setting also again. It's not one thing it's everything like little things so but for one word yeah I and I would say that's you gotta be careful. Broke Brandon is known for biting other people's quotes and I wouldn't surprise if we see this on his instagram the background and like something that I give credit where do I might be a call guy but I will give credit to you. It'll say he's GonNa put all the things everything and then it'll be different. Yes I've literally. Here's my belief with all quotes all quotes that I've ever been done in the last thirty years. Everyone has been ripped off from somebody else. WHO's been ripped off somebody else who ripped it off Jim Rohn? That's why I believe like everything hanging has just been stolen from Jim Ryan so if we visit six degrees of Kevin Bacon that could be related to Kevin Bacon within six steps and I think every quote came out of every quality modern and he probably got the Bible or some some probably all right final question goes out of here last question question of the day. Tell US shared. Where can people find out more about you? You can find me as the best places jared buys houses DOT COM is one of my websites and then if you WanNa follow me on instagram and jared flips Seattle is where I am there so yeah just Google me man. I got a few websites out there. If you WANNA connect all right good deal all right well let's get outta. Here is a fantastic show jared. You're a Rockstar. Look for you knowing you getting to know you even more over the next few years and keep it up meant. Thank you guys so much share thanks to did a great job. This is David Greene for Brandon Mr Steele Yo quote Turner signing off. You're listening to bigger pockets radio simplifying real estate for investors large and small. If you're looking to learn about real estate investing without all the hype you're in the right place for sure to join the millions of others who have benefited from bigger

brandon host jared Holland David Greene David Greene AIRBNB Seattle Paul project manager facebook Jaakko Leeann Jim Tacoma intention journal The New York Times Giga Mercer Island Michael Hyatt
A Democratic debate, in the shadow of impeachment

Post Reports

29:27 min | 1 year ago

A Democratic debate, in the shadow of impeachment

"This post reports podcast is sponsored by fidelity financial planning that moves with your life learn more at fidelity dot com slash your goals fidelity brokerage services number NYSE piped from the newsroom of the Washington Post I can afternoon this is too over knee advisory services offered for a fee by fidelity personal and workplace advisors l._l._C. and brokerage services provided by fidelity brokerage services L._L._C.. Ended on it look my son did nothing wrong I did nothing wrong I carried out the policy of the United States government judgment I'm proud of the judgement he made I'm proud of what he had to say and let's focus on this the fact of the matter is that this is about trump's okay we'll beat him he's going after me because he knows if I if I get the nomination I will beat him like a drum at least one candidate on that stage that night who had said it's Wednesday October sixteenth today the first democratic debate a diplomat at the center of the impeachment inquiry corruption and then he quickly pivoted what he wanted to be talking about which is why him at the center of this his talking point is it's because Donald Trump is afraid of me and yet then I think that's the case with this impeachment inquiry it was the first question they all got asked because it's arguably the bigger story than the twenty twenty primary eighty to pursue this impeachment we have to impeach this president and then Joe Biden was asked about the origins of the impeachment inquiry and what his son earlier in the day given an interview on ABC News where he said Look I showed poor judgment in serving on this board of a foreign company not at the base stage but previously better Aurora Keno I don't think I would let my family members serve on any any foreign boards so trump that like he went after one of their own in ways that was unnecessary right it seemed like a good part of the focus was off of vice president in businesses why was it OK for your son when you were Vice President Vice President Joe Biden duct this question like his life most expensive plan Medicare for all will you raise taxes on the middle class to pay for it yes or no so I have made clear I think that the house will find him guilty of worthy of impeachment and removing this president is something that the American people are demanding we have a constitutional dude and a DC druglord returns to court for all right. Let's begin since the right that's Ambrose Philips and I analyze politics for the fix politics blog at the Washington Post she covered Tuesday's democratic debate hosted by CNN announced that if you're president no one in your family or associated with you we'll be involved in any foreign businesses my question is if it's not okay for a president's family to be involved in raise some criticism within Democratic primary about Biden choices with the sun but I think overall there are holding hands in a sense of unity against for me is when I heard Joe Biden say I'm proud of my sons judgement even though a couple of hours earlier his son said I had poor judgment my son made well my dad was vice president fewer present I'm not GonNa do that again and you know try not to trade on the Biden name the eyebrow raising line the why do you support Medicare for all win you can't say it would raise taxes on the middle class you have not specified how you're going to pay for the in had to do with it the impeachment inquiry is centered on President Trump's attempts to get political dirt from Ukraine on Vice President Biden and his son hunter having said that on Sunday one year away why shouldn't it be the voters who determine the president's fate because sometimes there are issues that are bigger than politics the New York Times and she was watching closely as the two thousand twenty candidates were asked about impeachment all of them got asked do you think trump should be impeached all of them said yes what my principles are here and that is costs will go up for the wealthy and for big corporations and for hard-working middle-class families cost this will go down the struggle there for Elizabeth Warren is how to frame Medicare for all in a way that shows debate house Democrats have officially launched an impeachment inquiry against president trump which all the candidates on this stage support center war and I want to start with you the question is with the election a lot of other issues that they attacked Elizabeth Warren on what were some of those other big issues so the moderates were really going after the underlying this is the first time we really see everyone going out Elizabeth Warren nonstop and she is just sustaining constant attacks and I'm curious to hear reportage made a point after Elizabeth Warren like failed three times to directly answer moderator's question he said boy tonight a yes or no question that didn't get a yes or no answer philosophy that Elizabeth Warren Bernie Sanders have about how they're going to provide all these big government programs from Early Childhood Education Onto Student Loan Forgiveness into think Warren is more dangerous candidate for them and she is leading in polls nationally in and similarly states as well so the headline attack against her is Amy Klobuchar and Andrew Yang criticize that philosophy by saying sounds great when on the base stage how are you going to implement this problem is that it's been tried. In Germany France Denmark Sweden repealed it and all of those countries ended up repealing it because it had massive implementation problem a hole in this medicare for all plan that Senator Warren is putting forward is supposed to get filled in it seemed like moderate candidates came out swinging and in Washington in general your signature senator is to have a plan for everything except this no plan has been laid out to explain how will multi trillion dollar healthcare and taxes and income inequality and even gun policy to some degree on politics. I think last night's debate that's absolutely right I think first of all that should concern Biden that get it is aren't trying to attack them anymore donald trump is but the rest of the twin twenty primary candidates shifted things fairly dramatically and what I mean by that is the candidates almost all of them except for Elizabeth Warren decided let's go on policy it doesn't seem like it they still have deep ravines between the moderates and the more liberals on big big issues does what people are going to pay and how it's going to change their lives but also demonstrate that she's being honest about these big changes she's proposing had since the first debate and I'm wondering what do you think has changed if anything has changed throughout these debates I appreciate Elizabeth work but again the difference between a plan and a pipe dream is something that you can actually get done injuring in particular how to really rain down on the economy. The moderates recruiting of that so candidates like to lesser degree Joe Biden N. P. footage edge into higher degree percent they will not go up for middle class families and I will not sign a bill into law raises their cost shoes much of stats she throws out about how much money that would therefore you know the moderates headed to save Medicare for all might not be the best idea if Elizabeth Warren just can't be straight with you this is why people here in the Midwest are so frustrated for the past week or so I've been staring Gorden John Lennon trying to understand his role as the US ambassador to the European Union now Amber Phillips covers politics for the fix a handful of US diplomats trying to broker this agreement between Ukraine and the trump administration to try to get the cranes to fading a little bit in the polls and struggling to figure out how hard to push back. On all the unsubstantiated Ukraine allegations Bernie Sanders comes just having hearted in this saga where I've seen unfold about the Ukraine Aaron Davis is an investigative reporter for the Post so Gordon Psalm one was one of the Elliot Line where he said a bunch of other countries that ascribe to your philosophies tried to implement a wealth tax and a wealth tax makes a lot of sense in principle the how you think she handled that good that's right she definitely got a pass in a bunch of other debates but now we have this moment where Biden is it'd be hard but Democrats have big ideas if we want to be Donald Trump so for the most part Democrats are finding out basically on the same policy questions that we kluber charge got a moment where she said look no one on this stage wants to protect billionaires not even the billionaire wants to protect billionaire and that was true of Tom Star his first times on the politics team we hesitate to call anyone a front runner because those things change by the minute at some point I think this debate also underscored that what we did reach associates his longtime business partners family members friends acquaintances we really tried to get up a portrait from every side after each other let's do it like at some point I am a candidate Nike X Y and Z candidates standing in my way to get to where I wanna be I'm GonNa beat stage a climate activists and impeachment activists we have different approaches your idea is not the only idea so this handed it to have an vaulted into the top tier are nervous about that that despite how open this field can be it's also been pretty solid among the this fuselage against her I think she seemed kind of surprise that before we're going after her her main takeaway she wanted voters to have was I know it's the Portland Business Journal in Two Thousand Sixteen that Gordon Tomlin spoke at length my mother met my father in Berlin they were both born in Berlin after go negative things this debate underscored the polls have shown us for a little while which is that Elizabeth Warren is leading at the Washington Post that have been handed over to Congress and Aaron's been working on answering the questions we've all been wondering who is Gordon Sunland and how did it businessman from the Pacific Northwest Potentially Donald Trump's democratic rival in two thousand twenty election Psalm One and two other administration officials tried to cement that deal and text messages three candidates Bernie Sanders Warren Joe Biden and I saw some nervous energy among people right below then the cory booker's commonly harasses L. and was accessible at one hotel and then another and another and became this magnet of boutique hotels across the Pacific northwest how did he endowed attack and having had to pause his campaigning Elizabeth Warren the Senate in the polls and hasn't had very much scrutiny so she should have been ready for I get so entangled in a scandal involving the president and the Ukrainian government in the first place Gordon's Omlund declined to comment for this Article Elizabeth Warren Response to that was why are y'all trying to protect billionaires and a bunch of chimed even though it wasn't their turn to speak and said I'm not trying to protect billionaires and AB and Mercer Island which was curious place to grow up because Mercer Island today as a reputation as being the wealthy on Clay Hunter Biden was a board member and so many critics of of this effort saw as a really a proxy for trying to Impugn the character of a US ambassador so having been a very successful hotelier he was worth tens of millions of dollars he had lots of friends who are millionaires issue a statement that said they would fight corruption and specifically that they would look at this one energy company called Barista the energy company where Joe Biden's son fifty donors for that inaugural committee exactly so that one million dollars donation wasn't exactly enough to seal the deal and cool with wanted to be like them created I'm going to get there one of these days and at a young age in his twenties at an opportunity to buy a hotel coming in a best seller for Gordon when definitely was not because in the course of supporting Jeb Bush and then watching Donald trump just be a very different the free healthcare costs are going to go well for the wealthy they're going to go up for big corporations Lisbeth worn in particular says let's tax the rich let's tax the top one percent of the one the finance chair for Donald Trump who became the treasury secretary and he continued fundraising through two thousand seventeen and Donald Trump decided he was on his team as much as anybody else he decides to switch and Donald Trump and one of the first things he does is contribute a million dollars to donald trump's inaugural right and that made him one of the top you but Gordon Ali does politics in this is his Gulf this is his hobby big donations to presidential candidates in hopes of someday talk back in the sixties and seventies it had a very diverse a social demographic there were some very wealthy people that live there Colin every favor he had from the past decade of fundraising rents priebus the RNC chairman turned White House Chief of Staff Steven Mnuchin. It didn't end Onto Elizabeth Warren and I'm wondering what the attacks were before because it really did seem like the focus has pivoted to her his people to judges in charge of the world going ooh I don't do something now I don't know them into a position to have a strong showing says in May of two thousand eighteen he nominates Gordon Sunland to be the US ambassador to the European Union very prestigious one of the top ambassadors that we could of Gordon Solomon I can't believe things are so slow in Portland we got a hold of this tape of

Elizabeth Warren Donald Trump Joe Biden US president Medicare Vice President Vice vice president Joe Biden N. Ukraine ABC News Bernie Sanders Ambrose Philips Gordon Sunland NYSE Gordon Solomon Portland European Union
Part 1 With HOF Speaker Marilyn Sherman

The Drozcast Podcast Speaking of Motivation and Leadership

28:16 min | 1 year ago

Part 1 With HOF Speaker Marilyn Sherman

"Thanks to all the great content that today's guest has provided? This is going to be a two part episode so listening today and expect more great content from our guest in an upcoming episode. Welcome to the draws cast. Podcasts heeds Berezin motivation and leadership with attitude. And and now coming to you live from the draws cast studios and Streaming Worldwide Ladies and gentlemen derived. Hey everybody welcome to the Dr Cast. I have with me today. One very special guest and got a little intro for you. Here so Bear with me for a moment while I get this and here we go. My guest was just recently inducted into the National Speaker Associations C. P. A. E. Speaker Hall of fame. She is one of one hundred. Eighty two members in the world who hold this designation. This is a representation over body of work in the speaking profession to her clients that she has served for over twenty five years in those years. She has motivated audiences to get out of their comfort zone and get a front row seat in life. She is also the author of four motivational books including as a hole in your bucket list. Who's comfort zone? Are You win? Why settle for the balcony how to get a front row seat in life and Front Row Service Ladies and Gentlemen Without Further Ado? Let me introduce. Cpa Speaker Hall of fame member. Maryland Sherman Maryland. How are you doing great? How are you today? I am fantastic so excited to have you on the draws cast. Been looking forward to getting you on here for for a while and now we finally had a chance to do that. So thank you so much for spending time with me today For a lot of reasons I really wanted to highlight. You know what you do and and how you go about doing your thing and your brand and you know the front row a life so to speak and yes so I wanna get into that break. I Want WanNa just start with a couple of basic questions. I'm a backstory person and I like the no people's back story how it developed to how you got to where you are today or how you got into your Your career that you decided to to follow so with that. Said where is Maryland Sherman from? I grew up in On an island sounds kind of exotic but I grew up in in a place called Mercer Island Washington. And it's a small city in between Bellevue. Nci So I'm a Pacific northwest girl and grow up there because my dad was a key. Executive for Airborne Freight Corporation and that company was founded in San Jose where I was born and when they moved the Home Office to Seattle in nineteen sixty eight. That's when our family moved up to Seattle and so I grew up Mercer Island and went to Washington State University and then My Dad after graduating he gave me thirty days to get a job or also kicked out of the House and on the twenty eighth day. I got a job at the Seattle Crisis Center in this crisis center was a suicide prevention hotline A twenty four hour service for the city of Seattle and my John which I was the youngest to do this job. I was Tasked with answering suicide prevention crisis calls from midnight to eight in Seattle at that time had the highest rate of suicide. But I had so much training under my belt of handling crisis and handling Assessing situations because when you have a crisis line people have a wide interpretation of what it means to be in crisis. Sure so I had calls that Anywhere from a car couldn't sleep and needed a friendly voice to to talk to them all the way to my very first call which was the guy had a loaded gun. He already ingested drugs and he was going to end his life and he just WanNa tell somebody so he could say goodbye. So I was. That was my training and my background so it was really gratifying jobs. So that's how he started out in the professional world after graduating from college for college so Washington State is in pullman. Right yes it is so you went over to the other side of the state did. Did you not want to be a husky? I did not want to be a husky narrow I I wanted to be a bigger fish in a small pond in Iowa Seattle University of Washington in Seattle and being from her stride than it would have been a real easy commute in My parents agreed that I needed the full college experience where I went away from home and I lived in a dorm and I could not easily come home on weekends so it was a real immersion into the college experience and I really love it. If you wanted to go from pullman to Seattle you had to either fly either online or or drive through the mountains. Exactly Yeah Yeah I'm quite familiar with Washington state so bendable Seattle and Palman and that's why I was wondering so Mercer Island. Obviously it's an island so you had to get onto the mainland you had to bridge back and forth Wasn't a ferry okay. It used to be very back in the day but no I can't remember what year they did build the Mercer Aon Floating Bridge but they built a bridge. So yeah it was. It was brilliant beautiful place to grow up at several elementary schools. Two junior high schools and one high school so you pretty much. You did not go to a private school. You pretty much knew all the other kids that grew up with. Yeah Yeah I had a little bit different experience with that. I grew up more of a city. Boy In the Metro Detroit area. My High School was small and we knew everybody but you know it was just a just another suburb. In in a big metropolitan area we lived in high rent district so we went to school with people like bill. Russell daughter went to my high school and Jack Patera was a coach of the Seattle seahawks so my parents had Season tickets to the seahawks and so I would go to the game and then talk to Beth at school. The next day relations on the Hawks win another game. You know. It's just a really fun. You Know Paul Allen had house there gyms zone had a house there so these are in the nordstroms live right down the street from me so it was high rent district with High Red district comes. Its own challenges. There a ton of pressure and expectation for kids to succeed and because there was so much pressure to succeed there. Were few suicides happen at my high school and that started my career of Helping people not kill themselves There was a health education consulting firm run by Klay Robertson Larry. It's May handed it was in Clay they they came to my school to pilot a new program called natural helpers and they interviewed all the kids in the school. Nasty when you go to when you have a problem and you have a heavy decision to make or if you're just going through a challenge a tough time who you go to. And then they pulled the kids and then they took a cross section of the people from the school so they had the Jocson they had the theater kids and they had the quiet kids and they had a cross section of kids that scored highest on this poll and then they took them away for the weekend and taught them decision making skills assessing crisis skills listening skills and then had to ask for help skills in case she knows a sixteen seventeen year olds song comes. June says they WANNA kill themselves. You don't have to carry that burden yourself. So here's how you maintain confidentiality to assess the situation and then let them know. Okay I'm GonNa get you some help and let's let's go together type of thing. That's so I I was pardon. At Natural Helpers program that they piloted at my school and it was it was a huge hit so they started to take this to other schools around the state of Washington. And then I know this. I know you love a good back story though when they went to a health education Conference they brought me along to speak at it to speak on behalf of a student's perspective of this new program called natural helpers. So here I am seventeen years old. Getting up fundamentally into professionals telling them my perspective and I don't remember exactly what I said but I do. I do remember saying telling a story and then saying because of my training through. Natural Helpers there were two separate students who came to me that thought that The decision to kill themselves was the right decision at that time but because of the skills and the training that I had I was able to talk them out of it and they are still alive today so that that alone I think is worth the price of bringing. Natural Helpers into your school and that was if my research is correct You did get paid for that event to you. I did my first paid speaking engagement correct. Yeah that's pretty crazy so a lot of speakers professional speakers out there You know had a pretty Intense professional life pretty professional professional life before they pivoted in segue into a second year career as a professional speaker. But for me when I was seventeen I started to get paid to speak. I I The bug hit. Got Me early on. And that's when I started to get paid and I loved it and I said this is what I to do with my life. I think more people WanNa have stories of hope and inspiration to live a successful life. And that's what I WANNA do 'em when I went to my dad who was an executive airborne freight corporation He's like You need some credibility under your belt. So here's the plan as I see it but you can adapt it to how you want it but finish your degree get a job in the corporate space gets credibility and your belt and then go out and be a professional speaker. Because you'll know you'll by then you'll know what you're talking about people will listen to you but the seed was planted when I was still in high school and your path just kind of just kept on going in that direction before we jump into that though volleyball right so are you excited now for people who don't know you Maryland. You live in Las Vegas. And Are you excited for the raiders to come to town? Well I am not going to officially announce That someone I know has season tickets to the raiders. But I'm not GONNA you know we're keeping that under wraps but yes super super excited. I mean I like I told you that. We were there at the very first inaugural kingdom game when the Seattle seahawks played. They're very very first professional football game. When I told my husband you know the raiders are coming to Vegas. This could be really cool wedding. You're GonNa have an opportunity to be A season ticket holder of a professional team. That's that's their very first game of their very first season in Las Vegas. So it's a state of the art stadium. It's amazing so I can't wait for that to happen now. I'm a Bronco Fan so originally I thought I would get a season tickets and sell them all. Except for when the broncos come to town but but I'm changing my mind. I think I just might be wearing a little bit of silver and black come the fall. Yeah Yeah I think you can get away with that with the Denver. Raider thing but if it's if it's the chiefs that's a different store The the chiefs in the raiders. Yeah bad bad. Bad bad rivalry so like the packers the packers and then Chicago. That's right that's right now. We can't stand each other Detroit tries to get in there somewhere to Detroit. I'm sorry do they have a D- do they have a team. We don't even think that sometimes Maryland. I don't know why I think playing football tradition. That's the reason. That's the only reason this tradition trust so you built up some credibility as a as a professional and then you joined a company that basically suchy out to do seminars. Pretty TAT's right. I mean that was. Yeah that was a real I Guess Your Fire Pot right. You're you know you're out. Learn actually age your big learning stage. Exactly I went from a working for finance company. Were out in the field for this finance company working in an office and then working in Getting and then eventually in training and development and then it's really interesting because it during the interview. Their Home Office was in Allentown Pennsylvania. Because yeah coca was running Chrysler at the time in. His mother owned a house in Allentown so he bought this little company called Finance America. Which I got a job there right out of after I left the crisis job. I went to work for this company in Bellevue and I was a collector but they saw potential in me. They put me in the leadership training program and it was an eighteen month program so they moved me to Vegas because that was a training branch and the intention and goal was to have me work for eighteen months of all the places you know all the jobs within the finance company and then after eighteen months. I've had I run my own branch after three months of living in Vegas my boss at the time his name was Bob Shanley. He got no car accident and he did not survive so they didn't know what to do with me so they moved me to San Jose which was the next closest training branch but in those three months been Las Vegas. I said one day. I'M GONNA move back there. Are I love it so much? So I finished my training and I worked out in the field. And then they I decided well I wanna go to the Home Office because I want to do this kind of leadership training that I just went through and I loved it and they said they were like my dad. They're like the Home Office will be here. You need not only finish your training but go run a branch and go get some field experience so that by the time. His job opens up again in the Home Office. You will have not only feel experience. But then you'll be brought into the Home Office and he'll bring that field experience to headquarters so after getting field experience. Another job in the training department opened up and I relocated to Allentown Pennsylvania and during that interview. Hr director said what are your long term goals. And I said well I'm going to come here and learn everything I can about training and development and then in five years from now I plan on going on my own as a professional motivational speaker. He was kind of stunned any thought well. Most people don't tell us their exit strategy during the interview. But you actually would be perfect for this job in. He he went on. Not only did he hire me for that. Job In relocate me but he went on to tell that story at HR classes for years about finding your true passion in Going for it even if it means moving across the country and taking positions in taking jobs at aren't easy but that follow your path and I was really inspired by his willingness to help me. Have my dreams come? True Allentown Pennsylvania a little culture shock being a west coast girl. I mean that's in the middle of steel country. Other forget when I landed at the Lee High Internet was it. The Allentown Easton Bethlehem International Airport Valley. Yeah I there are no cabs unlike what what no cabs and for the younger listeners. On the call. Podcast cavs were what we used to take before uber lift existed and there were no problems and so there was a little phone that said down this number for ground transportation and I called and the Guy said you have your luggage I said was okay. I'll be right there. He shows up in a in a station wagon and picks up like three other passengers. So it was like really. It was like the early edition of Uber. Yeah that's what it sounds like. They took me to tell and I thought. Oh what have I gotten myself into Yeah Allentown was an Back in the day it was it was not as progressive as it is today but people freaked out there. Like your wait. Where's your husband? I'm like I'm a single woman like wait. You moved across the country on your own for a job. A like in. There are people that I worked with. That had never actually allentown so or at least not out of Pennsylvania so it's an interesting culture show for sure. Yeah Yeah I can. I can only imagine. That's I mean even for a Detroit Kid Going into the metal steel country like that. That'd be that'd be pretty tough so so you built up all this credibility and then you know you did your time doing seminars and whatnot. Kinda came the the time where you really developed this brand that is still yours. And it's really a lot of your identity. Now that's being in the front row. And so how did that come to be well? I left the finance company moved to San Diego with a as a contractor for seminar company doing five seminars a week up to three weeks a month and so I got a lot of stage time as the likes to say stage time stage time stage. Put my wrecks in because six hour seminars. I'd fly into a city in. Do you know nine four. The next day get rental car or the airport or drive to the next city. Spend the night dude all over again the next day so I was in front of every kind of audience imaginable teaching leadership skills managing conflict skills and as I was doing these seminars for the seminar company. I was not only building up reps to go out on my own and be a professional speaker but I also built up my own arsenal of concepts and ideas that I use and I came up with an it was in an audience in San Diego one time where I was talking about decision making and making decisions and I asked a rhetorical question one time and I said imagine if I would have done this just because My Dad told me this was the best thing to do and someone in the audience answered my rhetorical question and they said well you would have been living in Your Dad's comfort zone and that night I went home and I wrote the title of my first book. Whose Comfort Zone are you in had a lead the life you want and be happy every day so that was my first book and I learned from joining the National Speakers Association. That it's always good to have a book it becomes your calling card it becomes You know something that you get hired to speak on and it's a gift that you can give your audience members at something you can sell in the back of the room. Lots of tools to use a with but they suggested you have a book title the same as your keynote title so I started to speak on. Who's comfort zone? Are you in? And it was about stretching yourself setting goals and making decisions that are based on what you believe is right for you instead of listening to what other people say will you should do your life and then my clients they. They all heard it. They're like what you got. We WanNA bring you back. What else you got and I kept. I kept thinking okay. Ho- what what's next and I literally started to ask myself. Do I truly believe in. What do I wanNA hang my hat on? What's in my heart in my soul. What's inspiring people? That's when I came up with I think show aroused that I said will you're always sitting in the front row. Aren't you talk about that? And from that I literally started to think. Well what does it mean to live your life in the front row? What does it mean to not be living in the front row? What's a consequence of being stuck in your balcony of your life? What's the consequence of meandering around somewhere in general mission of Your Life What does it mean to be in the front row and from that I wrote another book? Why settle for the balcony when you can get a front row seat in your life and then my clients started hiring for me for that topic and then that? Morriston do front row leadership and then that morph into front row success. And that's what I that's what I do now and everything I do has to do with you. Know what can I do to get a you know closer to the front row? So I have my chairs have my seat. I have a seat acronym success energy attitude and tenacity. It's all about. That's what it takes to have success in life and be aware of the seat that you're in and something that I've learned from you Especially just you know talking to you prior to recording this and whatnot. Is You know you have a process in order to prepare yourself to in this case? You know it'd be on a podcast but you have a process to go on stage and to perform and Really I'd like to do this as well. But that's engaging the audience prior to going on stage well now now because we're all I don't know when you're a podcast will air but we're all quarantine right now so my life. I'm still delivering a keynote presentations. But I'm not going out on stages yet. My stage is different now. Some speakers of has said they lost their identity. Because we're in quarantine situation but I if you don't call yourself speaker you don't lose your identity. I call myself someone. Who is an expert delivering? Hope and inspiration to their audiences by helping them get out of their own way get out of their comfort zone and live their life in the front row and onstage is just one way. I do that on the other. Way is through virtual presentations like this podcast. And so what I I would do is. I would find out what who would be in the audience. And what are their needs whether their concerns? What's their pain? And what can I do to manage? and articulate my message so that resonates specifically for that audience. Yeah that's good paint points right. You got to figure out why they want you to come talk to them right so you probably talk to leadership prior to going on stage and you know they kind of give you a little background. Maybe some things that are the issue with their company that you can touch on from the stage. Yeah not only do I talk to the leadership and find out okay. What's your intention of the whole conference? What your intention of the session. That I will be keynoting. What he want them to think saying. Do when I come off stage and I let them know well Yup. I'm your Gal because I've already done that homework ahead of time to make sure I am the right speaker. For what they want. And then I interview people who are regular people that will be attending the event because I don't want to just hear from management or leadership and I want to hear from everyday people that will be in the third row or even in the back row to say you know when you looking or what's What's going on with you? What's worked in the past? What's not working if you could wave a magic on and say something. What would you want to hear that kind of thing? Those kinds of must. Yeah Yeah. That's that's good and that's a for those Who are listening or watching that you know our leaders and whatnot engaging a group before you go up and talk as it. I know that it's it helps me a lot too because that connection that you have with your audience. Yeah you. I'm a people person I like to be around people. I like shake hands. Well yes and fire. Yeah Right. Prior to Covid nineteen nineteen a whole new way of greeting people. We're going to have some sort of a new core cultural way of social distancing but not social you know separating we're gonNA you know it'd be different for a while. I think but you know people wanna make contact with each other especially people like you and me. I mean that's why eluded or you mentioned the The fact that we're all sitting in front of a computer right now and in my case. I'm sitting You know I'm doing a lot of work at home as are you so when I finally get to go out even if it's to the grocery store to the gas station like hey there somebody. Hey how are you? We have a why was on the third floor of our house. We have a tall skinny house and I saw the UPS Ligaya delivering packages to the neighbor and my bathroom door or bathroom window. I could see him and I yelled out the window. It was like higher man and he's looking around and I'm like I'm up here and he's like Oh there you are. I say I miss. Oh so true yes okay. That's going to conclude episode one with our guest. Thank you so much and that's GonNa do for today. Look forward to part two of this great episode coming very soon on a podcast platform near you. You have been listening to the DRAWS CAST. Podcast inspiration motivation and leadership with an attitude. Be sure to like and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform and head over to his youtube channel. The draws and do the same. What more go to draws talks dot com for more great information and to find out how to book draws for your next event at checkout draws his latest book leadership one Golden Nugget at a time. Do next time for more of the draws cast podcast.

Home Office Maryland Detroit Seattle High School Seattle seahawks Allentown Pennsylvania Las Vegas Vegas raiders Bellevue Executive football Washington San Jose pullman National Speaker Associations Maryland Dr Cast
Practicum || Tagalog Horror Stories

Haunted Crime Scenes

16:11 min | 1 year ago

Practicum || Tagalog Horror Stories

"We just liked quickly thing for speaking this podcast. Possibly have you ever thought about starting your own podcast when I was trying to get this podcast of the ground? I had a lot of questions. How do I record an episode? How do I get my show into the APPS that people like to listen? The answer to every one of this question is really simple. Anger anger is a one stop shop for recording hosting and distributing your podcast. Best of all. It's one hundred percent free and ridiculously easy to use. So if you've always wanted to start your own podcast go to anchor that FM slash start to join me in the diverse community of what customers other reading using anger. It's anger that. Fm smashed start. I can't wait to hear your podcast. uh-huh guy. Slocum up the deciding stories Philippines podcasts me Co host Syrup and today on having Manga. If you say no don't cause hunted crime scenes so on extra episode citing podcasts and Amapa Goose up and not only how you I crime scenes the memo high local but a gun. So let's just cut to the chase and let's just get started. Don't be here going mega project. How does that case Go at the Masa McCoy donate a Telugu Dina Wagon Tommy Bharata Melissa per million amount. So we made up your Watson among island at certain instances a alcohol bottom up protect Legacy detour active case buddy at the motto in world medalist only be dialogue. No Market Ellen. Pao begins see line of closure along relief. Saturday along party. Nila I blame the bill. Maher MARSOV NON-CUSTODIAL UP SO court on finding stomach psyche parapsychologists or meet juice. I'm a victim. Unemplyment got Knott's Lupu Mandela's about a meeting they know statia elemental. Aga On Cryan. Decipher no mom. Inciting anyone may know. Bus upholding among murdered victims in the alumni. 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BONUS 04: The Bittersweet Life #270, "STATES"

Migratory Patterns

34:46 min | 1 year ago

BONUS 04: The Bittersweet Life #270, "STATES"

"Migration media this is migratory patterns. I'm your host Mike Shaw this. We've got some bonus content to share with you a recent episode of the bitter sweet life podcast on my last episode. I spoke with co-host Katie. Sewell about about her journey from a safe career with NPR too an ex pat to podcasting entrepreneur and we touched on some of the themes that come up often her show in essence. I tried to do in about forty minutes. That's what she and her co host. Tiffany parks done over two hundred seventy five episodes so I thought that it might be a good idea to share an example of the kinds of conversations that they have each week on the episode. You're about to hear here. Tiffany has just returned from a visit to the US and reflects on the things about American Life and culture. That never fail to surprise her. Every time she goes back she also reveals a surprising reaction action. She had upon flying to Rome as well as thought that she hasn't had over. Fifteen years of ex pat life. Check out the show notes how you can learn more about the bittersweet live in how you can connect with me. I'm always happy to get your feedback and your interview recommendations we've got some great conversations on tap for the back half of this season but right now just sit back relax enjoy this special presentation of the bittersweet bittersweet life. Welcome to Rome. This is the bitter sweet life breath and tiffany parks. Hello this is the bitter sweet life. I'm Katie School. I'm Tiffany Park in. Today tiffany is back from vacation. Well not today. I didn't get back today. But yes today on the show she's back Murray occasion. Yeah and I guess I shouldn't say yea necessarily depending on how great that vacation was and now it's over. It was great. It was really really great. Yeah this is leave it there Katie. It was great. Thanks joining us. Join US next week. Look for us on Instagram So you came to the United States and sadly you and I did not overlap. No we did not but this was a what seemed to me at least a longer trip and the first one where your son who has been in the United States before was maybe old enough to remember it going forward yes well yes and no so yes the second part yes no. It was not a longer trip The last time when we went to the states altogether which actually the first time I really went we were there for a month. I want to say and we went to five different states. Actually it was a crazy trip. This was a little bit. More relaxing and shorter was just two weeks but yes he's definitely going to remember this trip. He might not remember all all the details but I I think that he will remember it and it's also the first time where he's like really gotten into it. Yeah what does that mean. He was excited about America America. He's you know he has. This notion of what America is he understands he was completely get it but the full month before we left it was California this in Arizona that in America America and trying to figure out if California was in America or California was a different place than America. A little bit confused about that and then just the fact that he has his cousins there who he adores and every night is talking about how much he misses. No He's just a little bit older now he's able to appreciate things a little more. Yeah Yeah so how old is he now he is just about to turn four and what is his understanding of America. You think he he understands he lives in Italy right or no. Yeah no he he needed stands that he lives in Italy. I have kind of drilled into him that he's American and Italian I don't want him to grow up not identify with that half half of his heritage. So it's very important to me that he knows he's American so he he gets it he does get it every so he's said to cloudy a a few times. I'm American and Mama's American but Papa you're not American club you always says I am in my heart and he told me you know no no doesn't speak English So he gets that. There's something in Pew. There's something more that he has. It's not one or the other something extra that he has this being American. You know kids can understand the concept of the world and how big it is and how far countries are away from each other. I don't think that he gets that. But we look at the map and the globe and show him. This is America. This is where I'm from and this is where Nanna Patty eyelid and this is where cousin Parker lives and Cetera et Cetera. And he's starting to figure it out and he loves to travel and he's good at it house house. Oh He's really good on airplanes. We've all been next to that awful obnoxious kid on the airplane or there's plenty of kids who just won't sleep on airplanes means and he sleeps really well on the airplane. He's not a great sleeper as I've probably mentioned more than once but you know we got on that plane three. APM or something one PM anyways afternoon flight. It wasn't anywhere near bedtime but we had like an hour of sitting on the plane may watched a video had something to eat and I was like come cut up in my arms. He cut off my arms and like he was asleep in five minutes. He slept for like three or four hours. That's great and then he woke up and you know played for a little bit more watched. Maybe another video we walked around looked out the windows went to the bathroom and he came back and he fell asleep again so he slept for more than half of the flight was long thirteen hour flight going. It was very uncomfortable as well. Thanks Alitalia very uncomfortable goal flight. Very dirty airplane was not happy with Alitalia. Going back was better but so he slept really great and the last time it was the same going West. He had no jet leg. Thank you got up really early. The first morning we all did we all woke up around four but after that it was fine he started waking up around his normal wakeup time. He slept all night. He was really good and even when he wasn't sleeping on the airplane he was just chill like he wasn't making a lot of noise wasn't being obnoxious. I mean maybe the person in front of us thought he was being obnoxious. Plane didn't think but no he was really good and then we did a lot of driving the trip not tons but we did a good amount of driving and he would either sleep or he would be awake when he was awake. He was just chilling. He was just like looking out the window and watching the city. Go by I never had to put a video in front of him. Mm You I had a couple of toys for him but we had very little luggage allowance on this flight. We had to carry on. Never done this in my entire life carried on an international international flight. Never done it and do it when I'm traveling with a kid very little space for toys and things you know just had a couple of coloring books and a couple of very small little cars and stuff and and it was fine. He was great like the most obnoxious thing that he did was singing in the car. Not Singing actual singing a song but kind of being like la like and Leslie annoying but it wasn't bad who is under the circumstances it was great and he was very good about like sleeping in new places he just adjusted super. Welt every single place. We were kids are notorious for needing their routine and needing to like sleep in the same place every night. Know what's is coming in the familiarity of it crave that and he he was just not fazed at all by the fact that for three nights we were in this bed and breakfast and then four four or five nights. We were at Grandma's house in Arizona. And then we went on this road trip and we stayed in different hotels every night. We were in a different place. He was fighting never had a problem falling asleep. He slept all night never waking up. Of course he was in bed with us so that makes it easier but he was just fine he was great and then the most amazing thing thing of all is that we flew back. It's a nine hour time difference. You've done it. It's hard especially if you like mess up and sleep in the afternoon you you can be really screwed up and our flight. Luckily again I recommend to people if you're flying from the west coast and you're doing that long flight even if you have a layover if you're flying from the west coast try to get a flight that leaves in the afternoon not in the morning because you do not want arrive in Europe and have it be early in the morning you don't WanNa live in. It's nine o'clock. Yeah so we arrived and it was already like three pm when we got there actually. That's not true we left at three P out. It was like twelve thirty but it was late enough that by the time we got through and by the time we got home and by the time we unpacked and did laundry and went to the grocery store. It was dinnertime An early dinnertime and I really had not slept. I was worried that he was going to crash. He didn't crash probably because he slept so well on the airplane. We it was. I was so stunned I was expecting. I was thinking myself up for being awake all night. Because that's what happened. Last time we came back we arrived early. He and cloudy both fell asleep in the afternoon. I couldn't wake them and they were. He was up only this time. He didn't sleep in the afternoon. I got him in bed. Like eight o'clock and Katie. He slept all night now. I'm not saying thank. You didn't wake up. He did wake up a couple of times which is understandable but very briefly but he slept wow and he immediately got back into his rhythm. I couldn't I can't believe it. He had zero jet lag. I had zero jet lag cloud you had a tiny tiny little bit. The only thing I can say is at five o'clock the first couple of days as I would be like a little bit tired but it would pass like I just pushed through it. My kid is super traveler. It's a sign that I need to travel with him more often. Well I I mean just by demonstration of how well he sleeps while traveling versus how well he sleeps and he's actually at home. You should be on trip every single month so you can really get some all the thing is Katie. I was expected because he started sleeping. And I'm not. I don't want to get into details on this because nobody cares but as you know he started started problems sleeping but he was finally getting their finally the last two weeks before our trip he started sleeping through the night like consistently which he's basically never done and I was like well when we get back from America that will go to hell and we'll have to reteach him. No Katie since we got back first couple nights he woke up a few times. He's been sleeping through the night every single night since we got back eleven hours. That's fantastic. I don't know what it is. I don't know what it is if it's maybe it's just his time. Yeah or maybe it's just the travel I it's about so tired I don't know what it is but I'm not complaining. Hello I'm tiffany. Katie breaking into the show really quick so I can ask Katya question. Yes so as you know Katie. We're challenging our listeners. To help US reach a financial goal of one thousand dollars a month on Patriot. We are and you know what Tiffany of everyone. Listening king pitched in five ten even twenty dollars a month. We would make that golden a heartbeat. So my question for you is why do we need one thousand dollars a month. Well six hundred to seven hundred dollars of that is covering our monthly costs. That's why hosting fees taxes advertising equipment charges. You know the day to day expenses. This is that keep a weekly show running. So what about the other three hundred. We'll I don't know if you've noticed tiffany that we've been doing this show for over five years and haven't ever really been paid. Have you noticed I have well. I'm hoping that the person listening to my voice rate now will love the show enough to wish at their hosts got paid for making it too so one hundred fifty dollars. A piece seems like a modest start. Don't you think I think it would be great. It would. Would you loved the show. Please support it in all the hard work and effort that goes into making it. Netflix can survive without you. We can't so visit the Patriots Dot com slash the bittersweet life podcast and become a donating member of our community. That's P. A. T. R. E. O. N. DOT COM slash bittersweet. Sweet Life podcast. I'll put a Lincoln show notes and now back to the show. So let's get back to one thing you said about Claudio because when Aurelio Assaying Mama's almost from America and I'm American and you're not in Claudius that I am in my heart. Do think that that's true. He told me that on this trip after we came back he said when I'm in the states I don't feel like I'm gonNA foreign country. I feel incredibly at home there. He kind of said he's always felt like that. From the very very first time we went but he really feels like it now and I think I think he wants. I mean I'll be honest with you. Katie and with you listening wherever you are. This is the very first time I've been to the states and I really wanted to stay say and I mean not. Just stay longer but like move there kind of move move back. Would I know I know the so. I think a huge part of that is seeing the interaction with and his cousins. My niece and nephew. Yeah because he doesn't have any cousins over in Rome no he does not. He has a couple of second cousins but he doesn't have any first cousins and I think cousins is an important part of life especially since he doesn't have siblings. Cousins are important and they're a little bit older than him but not too much. They're old enough that they seem like really big kids to him but they're young enough that they still cylinder playing with him so it's perfect and I just honestly I'll be honest with you when we were in the car on the way to the airport report I started crying never happened to me in my life I started crying and it's because it's not right that you know that we do. That's so so infrequently I guess I feel bad for him and of courses mom guilt. It's like I shouldn't go there but you know as well as Moms we find. We'll find find something to feel guilty about no matter what you can find something and so I felt guilty. That he doesn't get have more time with his cousins and I felt bad for myself because I really enjoyed being with my family with my mom. My stepdad my sister. Her husband their kids and I have a lot of other family members. I didn't see on this trip that I'd like to spend more time with and not to mention friends friends and I just Kinda felt like my depriving him. My depriving myself of really great family. Time and I think look everyone's different so I'll talk about myself. I have not suffered too too terribly much being away from family like I miss my family. Sure but I've it's not been a major problem for me but now that I have him. It's totally changed. And I also had some loss in my family as you know in the past year two years and and that makes you just realize that you cannot count on anyone being there the next time you come. Yeah no matter how young they are right because for between this trip and the last one three of your family members died. Is that right. Well if you count my trip to the states to promote my book last year in which cloudy on our radio did not come. Oh Oh no but since that trip which was in March of last year to family members have died and then between when I came with cloudy on the last time and that trip a year ago my father died so three people in two years two of them within the last less than a year. It really makes you realize you know like I said in the episode. Dad I said to my father so many times I'll keep this. Christmas is not going to happen. But we're really going to try for next Christmas and you can keep saying that and keep saying that until the the person that you're promising is no longer there anymore. Yeah Yeah it's hard. It's hard having Claudio. Has His family here too. You know so. It's never going to be perfect. Never GonNa be living in the place where all of our family members are. So there's always gonna be some kind of sacrifice and some kind of compromise Yeah the perfect solution solution. No joke no perfect ideal would be if we could you know when you read like a book by s generally really pretty successful author often will say in the about the author part the little bio of the author and then the last line. That's the line that makes me the most jealous not not everybody has it but a lot of our authors and it's this Mr author or MS author divides their time between Rome and Seattle. Yeah between London and Sydney or between Los Angeles and Paris. That's it that's what I want. I want to divide my time between Rome and I don't know where Seattle La. I don't WanNa be in Los Angeles but somewhat era Zona. I would be happy living in Arizona for three months of the year and then I could go to La. I could go to Seattle. I could go to New York during that three month period and then go back to Rome. Just get a lot of quality time like it's just so fleeting when I'm in Arizona with my mom uh-huh and now I don't particularly want to live in Arizona. It doesn't call to me as a place to live long term. But when I'm there my mom's house eating outside I tried having barbecues. Okay yes I'm in vacation mode so obviously it's not real life but spending this quality time with my mom seeing a really interact. Interact with her and he. He's always been a little bit standoffish with my mom especially at first because he doesn't spend that much time with her right. It's a stranger every every time I mean always. It's always a little bit less but this time was totally different. As soon as he saw her at the airport he ran to her. We couldn't wait eight to hug her and he was saying. And I've never seen him like that with before. And he was so loving with her and like lounging on the couch together and cuddling playing together. I want that to be a relationship. That's more than once or twice a year. You know. Yeah Yeah it's complicated. It's so complicated. So your book career has to take off immediately everybody go by your book midnight in the Piazza his please please and can I just say this. Just write me a review on Amazon like seriously non authors have no idea how important Amazon reviews are sadly so. I'm sorry even if you didn't buy your book on Amazon you can still review it on Amazon. There's something like after a certain number of reviews they'll start saying to people like Oh. If you like this book you might also like this book. They'll put more prominently so I don't want to if you listen to this podcast gassed. You know I'm not huge in self promotion but I am going to say just since we're talking about it if you would be so kind and if you enjoyed the book and if you read it obviously if you I haven't read it I'll read it but please write me an Amazon Review. It costs nothing. It takes two minutes and it will make a huge difference. So that's all I'm going to. Yes okay so we're not going to say that you're actually mentally making plans about moving to the United States. But did you get a sense. That Claudio felt the same way or does he not feel the same way because he is actually from Italy born and raised well He. It's a totally different thing. Because he doesn't have the same poll that I have the family. Paul of course I mean he he. Of course I want you to have relationships with all these people but it's not as personal to him because it's not his family his blood family at least but what he has is. He's totally sick of where he's he's sick of Rome. He's sick of the day to day. It's not sick of the beauty and the history but that's not a huge part of our our daily life as people who were living outside of the center commuting by car or by Metro going to work every day and paying bills. It's just it's not the same experience that a tourist or even an ex pat who lives in the central like my experience before moving out here and before getting married and all that so so he's not sick of the beauty of Rome. I'm not saying that he's just sick of. He's sick of the day to day. The you know the way things work or don't work here here. The attitude of the people as we've talked about many times there's a lot of downsides to it and of course his job so he would I think he would move move in a heartbeat Interesting and he's still because I remember the last time you were in the states. He loved the wide open. Roads of eras he does is is he still mostly drawn to Arizona for a man who likes to Dr Driving Enrollment so unpleasant. The wide open giant highways of the United States. It's called his name is still Arizona that draws him the most. I think he loves California to be honest but California's kind of out of our budget. It's just so expensive like anywhere. You go in California. So I doubt we'd be going to California. I don't know I don't know as much as we. You know occasionally talk about it. We we have like you said. There's there's no plans and there's no idea of where I guess you would go where we could get work. I suppose or we would go to Arizona temporarily early because we have the support of mother there. That would be a big help that you could move in with her for a while we could yes. She has a lot of space. So was there anything besides the surprise of crying on the way to the airport which you know. I wish I had a microphone there. Because we've been doing this show for five years and I've cried multiple times and I can't get tiffany cry on this damn show not that I've been focusing my efforts on it but I would have liked to be the little fly with a microphone next to you in the cab. Next time you burst into tyranny just turn on your iphone and record them voicemail form. Yeah okay that's I will try to remember that besides the surprise though of feeling so sad when you were leaving I assume I mean you grew up there so it's hard to know but is there anything that every time you get back or when you got back this time surprise issue about the. US Like you just sort of forget that that's the way it is. I felt like in a supermarket. Everything was sold. In these like Mega Gye norms quantities. Like like you couldn't just go into the supermarket and get six eggs. You had to get twelve eggs or more. I feel like in Italy. Things are smaller small proportions small all packages of food and we were we were in away. We were staying in an Airbnb with a kitchen and we would generally have lunch at home just because you know we would try to get earlier nap and stuff and we wanted to buy eggs. I headed by twelve eggs. We wanted to buy a bottle of water. Katie like the only bottle of water we could find in the supermarket was like one of those two liter giant bottles like Poland spring. There was no little. You know half a leader I mean I know you guys. Don't even use leaders there. I don't even know. What would it be like court-size water bottle even the milk? The milk comes in these giant bottles. The orange juice like I was like we are never going to drink all of this orange juice in three days. What grocery store are you at? We do have smaller proportions and that. I don't know maybe I was at like A. It was not costco okay. I know what Costco is. It was knocked COSCO. I don't know it was some California place and so that always surprises me and then I have to remind myself. It's not a surprise but I have to remind myself. Always of how much stricter the traffic laws are parking. One hundred nine cloudy I was like we can't just park in in a place that you can't part. We'll get a ticket. It will happen immediately. We were in Beverly Hills of all places and we parted a meter and we went to do this quick thing. The cloudy wanted to see famous cafe. We weren't planning on sitting down and having anything there but we ended up doing so. It's all the owners retaliation and so we were chatting with them and I'm like Oh my God. We have to get back to the meter. We have to get back now. It happens so often in Rome that I paid a little. They don't have meters meters in Rome. But like you pay it a little ticket then you get a little ticket you put it in the on. Your car dash always expire. I always pay. But they always expire and even if they expire for like thirty minutes. I'm pretty sure I'm not going to get a ticket. But ours was about to expire like did expired like two minutes ago and I'm like speed walking down the street. It wasn't a huge surprise is but it was something that I really have to remind myself. Also like U-TURNS. You can't just make random U-TURN in the middle of the street you will get a ticket even jaywalking in some places you might get a ticket take it for so so. That's a big difference that I had to remind myself it's true it's kind of the opposite of what you were complaining about years ago. Italy's Italy is like we could solve all of these major problems of people to suffer a penalty for it. You could see. US News like penalty penalty. You will pay. Yeah misstep that you make. Here's the thing I've always said that. Italy and America are two extremes and neither is really in the right place and there should be a happy be medium between the total lack of enforcement of traffic laws in Italy and the kind of obsessive overkill in the United States and many many many many other things political things just lots of things in the US to the traffic laws are often used a policing system. For instance. My parents live on a place. Called Mercer Island. Mercer Island is kind of a Ritchie suburb of Seattle. My parents aren't super wealthy. But my dad worked on the island so they lived on the island but anyway way the cops there are pretty bored and I always used to joke. You can't drive. There is a high school student in your car that you bought for five hundred a box because you will get pulled over every single time you hit the road but they use it as a policing system. So for instance. I was just on Mercer Island the other day apparently tail light was out. And you can't have a tail light out on Mercer Island. Otherwise they're going to get pulled over and I did and they're just doing it to do other investigations. Like what are you doing. Do you have your insurance prince. Are you drunk or whatever you know. They're just doing it but they have to have caused the pull you over. And then they can discover these other things and it's actually often a a real problem in the United States. Well I don't know if you know this Katie but in Italy the police will routinely pull people randomly and that's totally okay. You don't have to have a the reason not even a tail light. That's not even like you forgot to put your blinker on. And every so often I see them doing it. And I've never been pulled over but they do it. It's like a routine thing. They just will decide to go out and do. When do they'll be standing by the side of the road with their little lake? What they call the lollipop which is like a little paddle thing? It's shaped like a lollipop and they'll just randomly tell people to pull over and you have to show them your license registration and insurance and all that stuff and if nothing's wrong they send you on your way so in that sense it's actually. They're actually more strict correct in since they can pull you over and the same is true on the street. It is legal for police to stop you and just ask to see your documents for no good reason in what documents offenses that. What are you carrying I in Italy? It's the law that you have to have an idea on you which could be a driver's license or a national. Id Card which everyone has the National ID card. And if if you're a foreigner you're supposed to have either your passport or photocopy of your passport interesting. You're supposed to well. When I was in South Africa they did that same thing with the lollipop? Although I don't know that they had a lollipop I wasn't driving the car. But they routinely shut down freeways to make people go through a drunk driver gauntlet. What if you could imagine? It's eleven pm. We're stopping every single car to find out if you've enjoyed game every single one. Wow and every single person had to do like a test. I remember that they had to do a test. But again I was riding with a guy and we were stuck in this long line and I think it was in the back seats. I don't remember all the details of what he had to go through you but we were like what's the deal. Why is the traffic's backed up and he's like oh it's a it's a drunk driving gauntlet? Basically wow I must have a major problem with that. I don't know yeah if that was pretty interesting. Yeah so lasting takeaways from your trip best day worst day it was amazing. It was just wonderful the trip you you know after all the stress that I went through planning this trip as you know. If you haven't heard you can go back and listen to the travel anxiety episode. We really almost didn't go on this trip. Yeah there was a lot of things that were in the way. Yeah and even I for like a couple of moments stopped and was like is this. A good idea is going to be extremely expensive. Live and also we've got these other issues you know. We might have to cancel the trip at the last moment or something could happen but it was really forceful. I really insisted that we go and almost forced cloudy into going. I just can't tell you how happy I am that we went because it was wonderful and a lot of the time was spending time. I'm with family. And that was what was wonderful. And in some of the time it was pure tourism and that was wonderful too but it was just great it was. I don't know I can't even tell you driving down on the coast of California on Highway One something that I've always dreamed of doing of always wanted to do the Pacific Coast highway and we did it and the weather was beautiful every single day. Did you see any elephant seals while you're on the highway. We did we did. It's one of my favorite parts. I put them on my instagram stories. Katie you must not have seen seen them. I'll send you the video riposte that yeah. We pulled off the highway. We missed it. We miss the stop and I looked back and I was like. Oh my God. I see sales on the beach. Seals are my favorite animal by the way harp seals particularly. I make love your turn around. We had to drive a while before we find a place a turnaround. He was like grumbling the whole time. It's like we are going back. We turn back we drive you find a place to park. We walk walk walk and we can see the seals out on the beach but before are we get to the beach. We see this little river and in the river are the elephant seals playing with each other and jumping on each other in fighting play fighting with each other. Um and there were so close it was amazing and you know we just saw some beautiful places and ate some great food and ate some not so great food and Funnier the stadium some great places and stayed in some not so great places and spent time on the beach and it was just great ideal family vacation. You didn't didn't happen to go to hearst castle did you. Oh No have you been there before. No but I have seen pictures and I know what it is but it's not I I think if you if you're in Italy you don't go to America and go to her skull so like we've got the real thing over here I ask because I've always been dying to know if anybody any any of you are not Americans in have visited the United States and gone to hearst castle. I am just dying to know what a foreign person thinks about that because breath it is. It's a really rich like a newspaper. Barren and he built this castle on a hill in California. You can go for it now now. And it's just this clash of all sorts of different cultures smashed into one structure because he basically went along around the world old in appropriated whenever he thought was cool and then put it together. And when you take the tour the tour guide says and yes he used to host all these these people from the golden age of Hollywood but also tons of foreign dignitaries and I looked at Derek and I'm like I wonder what the foreign dignitaries thought about this because it's just I don't know it's so garish and so I've just always wondered what an actual person from Europe thinks about hearst castle so if you had gone I would have made you drag claudio onto the show. Tell me all about his impressions about it. So maybe someday your next trip maybe someday make a point of making audio go to hearst castle. Give his impressions about I will. I would love to know or any of you listening. If you've been there I wanNA know what did you make of it anyway. That's great you know. We're kind of at a time time for today. But I was thinking while you were talking that by living in Rome by you moving away from the United States and living over there for over a decade eight now is going to be fifteen years Katie. Can you believe that. Wow that's incredible eighteen in some way and how you were talking about it in this distance that you have ah from family and sometimes I think about this in terms of deciding move to another country is it. has this element of being in exile exiles. The right word but you apart from all of these other people that you love right and we've talked about that a little bit but I wouldn't mind exploring as Exactly exactly that what. These negative exile type parts of it. Are you know the separation. Sounds like a topic for future episode. I know yeah so if you have any thoughts about that I don't know if I'm framing that right but that feeling of you are you are separate. You are removed. Yeah some people love that intentionally. Okay but what about the the negative aspects of like you built your life in Rome and now you're feeling these feelings of for what if I want to be over there but I'm over here now. I'm stuck over here. I don't know it'd be something interesting to explore. And if anybody has any thoughts about it send us an email bittersweet life at mail L. Dot com or through the contact us page at the bittersweet life dot net. I'd be curious to hear those kind of more. I don't know negative separate thoughts. Yes yes you can also reach us on social media. We are on twitter facebook and instagram just search for the bittersweet life and I will leave it there. I'm sorry we didn't get to see each other while you were in California so close and yet so far I know so close I know I am glad you got to go to big Sur though totally worth seeing at some point in your life yes. It was incredible incredible place. Yes and I guess. We'll talk about the changes in my life which people are beginning to speculate about here online. we'll talk about that next time. Okay sounds good and so until next time. This is the bitter sweet life. I'm Katie Sewell. I'm tiffany marks joins us again again by thanks Lori. Lee Elliott for her help managing the bittersweet life on Youtube and to Sarah Johnson for her consultation. Our logo is made by Jodi Rick at the loss laboratory painting assistance by our Muse. Haji you can find this on Instagram facebook and twitter just search for the bittersweet life. PODCAST US and if you haven't already please subscribe to the show that way. We're here for you every week. Both on Monday and now on Thursday. And if you review us an apple podcasts will be grateful for you. Send US your topic. Ideas questions and voice memos were at bittersweet life at mail dot com or at the contact US page inch at the bittersweet life dot net.

Katie America US California Rome Italy Arizona Tiffany Claudio Rome Katie Sewell hearst castle Tiffany Park Europe Seattle instagram Katie School Amazon Tiffany parks La
A Haydn Concerto, A Virtuosic Teenage Cellist, and an Homage to Bach

From the Top with Host Christopher O'Riley

1:00:56 hr | 4 months ago

A Haydn Concerto, A Virtuosic Teenage Cellist, and an Homage to Bach

"This message comes from. Npr sponsor nerdwallet. They bring together the smartest credit cards mortgage lenders and more so you can compare and shop all in one place. For all your money questions turned to the nerds at nerdwallet dot com. Hey everyone it's pianist. Peter dugan here and welcome to this week's podcast which features kids from all around the country performing in studios near where they live and sometimes they're performing right in their own homes of course with some pretty serious pro gear that we sent them and with some coaching from our sound engineers. I have to say. I learned so much from the young musicians who feature on our program in this episode especially i got to hear from young trumpeter about who has big. Influences are and warning. They're not just classical trumpeters I also got to speak with young blind violinist. Who taught me all about what. It's like to navigate the world as a blind musician Then i heard from a young clarinettist who taught me about klezmer music and his experience with that. So there's a lot of great learning that happens in the show plus some fantastic performances including a cellist who i swear has a bionic He does this perpetual motion piece which is insane. So i think you're gonna enjoy this show as a quick reminder if you like what you hear today please remember that from. The top is a small independent nonprofit. If you would consider making a contribution to our efforts at from the top dot org. We'd really appreciate it. Thanks everyone and enjoy the program from npr. It's from the top celebrating the power of music in the hands of america's here's our host pianist dugan thanks joanne. Today's show takes us all across america starting in virginia heading over to michigan onto washington state and then sailing through the pacific to end the show in hawaii. It's another testimony to the fact that young people are making beautiful music. In every state of the union and their stories are equally wide ranging with the young clarinettist whose talent straddles both the jewish klezmer folk tradition and the western classical canon and young violinist two as a blind musician sees herself as a force for the greater inclusion of the blind in the performing arts. And our first musician. Whose mantra is that. If your dreams and ambitions don't scare you they're not big enough. That powerhouse of a young player is none. Other than benjamin d haiti. He plays trumpet and he's from oakton. Virginia will hear him now. Perform the first movement of joseph haydn's trumpet concerto. The pianist is so fia kim. Cook Who benjamin haiti seventeen years old from oakton virginia performed the first movement of joseph haydn's trumpet concerto. Collaborating with him at the piano was sophia. Kim cook then it was such a joy to hear you perform that piece. Thank you so much for this opportunity now. I know i just met you yesterday but meeting with you working with you reading about you. I think it's safe to say that you're kind of an intense guy like you're one of these performers who had to learn to practice less. Am i right. Yeah when. I was first starting. I definitely over practice because i was practicing pretty much into my muskie about at the end of the day which could be up to six and a half hours. Which definitely isn't good for Having such small delicate muscles while playing the trumpet but i to scale back in Get a more healthy way of managing my practice hours but you also talk about the benefits of mental practice. And i know that can mean a lot of different things for different folks. What does it mean to you. Yeah mental practice to me means You know reading through the music in figuring out how the trumpet will fit or whatever part is also a lot of listening so i actually went to talk a little more about listening because you're very intense about the way you listen as well like would you say you listen to in a year so recently on my spotify rap i listened to seventy five thousand minutes of music on spotify so i listen to music much all day every day. I'm just crunching those numbers. Real quick that that works out to like fifty two days straight of listening to music. That's that's impressive. And you listen to all kinds of stuff right. Yeah try to be as diverse as possible. Well and i know that. There's a lot of trumpet you listening to. Of course and when. I heard that you cultivate your specific sound through listening and being inspired by the sounds of others. I thought you know. Let's have been a share. A few trumpet tracks with us and try to get a sense of your take on trumpet stylings and and this idea of tone so let's hear the. I track that you suggested so. This is more souls and in the east coast steps. Napoli what are you hearing here tone. Wise the tone is very vibrant in focused And then the second thing is just how clear each and every notice because he has all these runs up and down the trump register but you can hear every single note and it's still consistent through every part of the registered it's stunning. Weren't you basically raised on winstons music. I was so my mom Probably cypher me's the biggest wint marcellus fan. I have met So i'm not exactly sure how she discovered went to. Marcela all knows that. I was raised pretty much all his standard time volumes. And even before. I realized that. I wanted to play the trumpet. Well the second track that you suggested is by another great trumpeter. This is roy hargrove. A joy is sarah unmasked. How would you describe. Hargrove's tone here Well this is. It's definitely like a very soft and sweet in bad like tone. And i'm not one hundred percent sure this but i'm pretty sure that roy hargrove. He's using a technique called sub. Tony which is actually accessible technique. That was made famous by. Listen young and it's a technique that musicians can use to introduce a lot of air to tone In his definitely easy to get lost in his tone because you should still like velvety in very smooth. Yeah very unintended. So there's so much to learn from his. Playing one of the all time greats. I i just hear the heartache and feel it in just in the sound itself you know you're you're already developing your own sound. Of course you're combining influences and you're developing into your own artists. I think ultimately people are going to study you in the future but of course no matter what you end up doing You're a guy who likes to go big or go home. Where would you say you got that belief and drive from I definitely got that for my mom. She would always tell me that your dreams are not big enough unless they scare you and that's always like a model that i've tried to live by while tell you what scares me. Is the crazy amount of potential that you have and it's just been so much fun getting to chat with you and and i know wherever your path takes you. It's going to be brilliant. Thank you so much. I really appreciate everything that has. Kim been given to me through this opportunity. I really look forward to seeing how everything turns out. It's a pleasure and a joy benjamin to haiti age. Seventeen from oakton virginia. If you subscribe to from the tops podcast you can download whatever episodes you want and listen on demand. They're available at from the top dot org for the last fifteen years from the top jack. Kente cook foundation have awarded over. Three million dollars in scholarships to talented young musicians who have financial need. We still have more to give go from the top dot. Org to learn more. Peter thanks joanne. Our next young musician is julia legrand. And she's a sixteen year. old violinist. Living in grand rapids michigan now. Because it's the era of covid nineteen. We recorded her blanket fort style. that's our nickname for our recording process. Where we record musicians in their own homes. We coached her and her parents. On the setup of all the recording gear that we sent them which they did brilliantly now. Julia is blind and learns music by ear mainly and recently. She's begun studying braille music to here. She is now performing the first movement which is called obsession from. Eugene is is sonata in a minor for solo violin. number two That was the first movement titled obsession from violence and a number two in a minor performed by sixteen year. Old violinist julia legrand from grand rapids. Michigan julia. I love the way you capture the spirit of this piece. Sort of crazed neo baroque with all these little hidden quotations and you just bring all the nuance that it needs to every detail showing us where all those those little easter eggs are just beautiful. Thank you thank you now before you performed. I mentioned that in addition to of course being an extraordinary young violinist your in extraordinary young violinist who happens to be blind but in in addition to excelling at music. You've made it to the finals of the national braille challenge for like ten years and actually wanted a couple of times so first of all. What is the national braille challenge. And why do you do it year after year. Well the national challenge is a program that's put on by the braille institute based in california and the braille challenge motivate students to really hone in on those skills and develop the skills that eventually they will need to prosper as blind adults and it's a combination of tests so there are tests in charts and graphs. And then there's reading comprehension there's a proofreading section and then there's a section that possesses the speed and accuracy of dictation. Yeah so this past summer. I got third place and i've gotten second place a few times. I have won four times so but it's just a great chance to get to meet other blind students who are also. Yeah right so so. There's a social element to it as well. It's a great chance to get involved in the blind community and it's really great to get connected to amazing resources and just friendships to sounds like a great resource and congrats on all the wind. Now you have a guide dog julia. What's his name. His name is otto and is it unusual for someone your age to have a guide dog yes. It is quite unusual. Also there's actually only one agency in the world that gives guide dogs to people under sixteen. So i got my first dog when i was twelve. I'm now on my second dog know. Educate me on this. Why don't other training organizations want to give guide dogs to younger kids. There are a lot of factors. I think one is that it's a lot of work taking care of a dog. It's a lot of responsibility and when you are working with a dog twenty four seven and you are relying on them for a lot of really important things you need to be the only one who interacts with the dog. You have to have like an iron strong bond with that dog so my family members can't participate in his care at all. They can never take him out. They can never feed him. They can't even look him in the eyes or touch him or talk to him ever sometimes hard to find people younger than sixteen who are willing to put that much work. Who have family situations where the family is a resource in but doesn't get in the way of the relationships because the individual with a service dog really has to be in charge and you feel like having a guide dog has changed things in a major way for you. how so. maybe one of the biggest things is. There's sort of a defense in how people treat me. When i am walking with a cane versus walking with the dog i noticed that people tended to help more with the white cane which isn't bad in and of itself but the way people offered help i notice there was much more an attitude of condescension and sort of assuming. I didn't know where i was going. I think people tend to view people with a dog in a different way. And i am not exactly sure what goes on but i definitely noticed that when i was with a cane i was treated much less like i was an independent qualified. Equal person. Well thank you so much for for sharing. All of that. Julia as you're getting older i know you've been thinking about advocating on behalf of blind musicians in what way there aren't that many blind string players who are having successful careers in the arts and i think that's partly that there aren't a ton of blind string players showing the way for more. I'm in a sense. And i think it's also partly barriers that blind students face and so i'm really interested in promoting diversity through disability in all areas and more representation of disability in the arts particularly right. I can't wait to see where your path will take you as you continue to advocate like you just said Julia it's been really a treat to have you with us and that performance a stunning. Yes thank you so much. Joy legrand sixteen years old from grand rapids michigan. We're now going to pay a visit to the home of a fantastic cellist. From the boston neighborhood of jamaica plain. His name is hayden eisen. he's fifteen years old. And he's going to perform at the fountain by karl davidoff pianist. Peter digging here. And i'm at the piano thanks. Thank you And can talk a won't ooh A fifteen year old cellist. And i'd seen from jamaica. Plain massachusetts performed at the fountain by karl davidoff hayden recorded that in his home and through a remarkable process of sharing recordings back and forth between the two of us so that we can match each other's musical choices. I collaborated with him at the piano. Remotely and hate. An appearance appearances sponsored by nancy and richard. Lubin hayden do you have a bionic bow arm because that is just insane that you can move fast without a break. I'm blown away by that performance. Well thank you. Thank you so much. And it's been wonderful to collaborate with you on the speaking of biotic arms. I mean. I wish i had one then. Maybe i wouldn't get so tired. But unfortunately i don't so it just practice and building up stamina and let's jump right into that subject. Physical training has actually been a game. Changer for you right. Yes so. I work with a physical trainer once once a week. I've been doing it for about three years now. I think and it started. When i i had a lot of back pain and eventually just being generally stronger more mobile more stable through the training has helped with everything. Do you think that musicians tend to undervalue. How important it is to be in good physical condition i do. I guess the stereotype of classical music is that everything's very delicate. Light and elegant and lifting weights is not exactly. It doesn't exactly fit that description. So i think that classical musicians shy away from that musicians often think of weightlifting and physical training is more just getting strong rather than also creating awareness. Well there are some limits to doing certain athletic activities being musician. Like for example. I won't go anywhere near skis. Ski slopes snowboards. None of it. I won't say but you at once took protecting your hands to an absurd level a couple of years ago. I want you to share this story. And as they say on all things considered a warning to our listeners. This story gets a bit grizzly so few years ago i was in seventh grade and we were running laps in gym class in our gym at six basketball hoops in it. And we when we would run laps me in the My peers would would see if we could touch the rim of the hoop and my classmate ran up at the same time as i did touch the who we collided And so. While i was falling i remember thinking in my head. I have to protect my hands. I have to protect my hands. And so i actually fell and landed on the ground like a bird with its wings spread and instead instead of bracing the fall with my arms or something i fell right on my two front teeth and so my teeth. The got chipped broken in half. And i got up and according to my classmates i said are my hands. Okay my hands okay. Instead of what's happening with my teeth as they were leading everywhere and so then luckily i. I went to the school nurse. And i picked up the pieces of my teeth of course and she putting them in a solution now preserved. The teeth and i went to the dentist after that and got my teeth glued back on so but i mean the silver lining to it. I guess that. I did manage to touch the rim of the hoop time. That's what matters key takeaway from that story. Oh my gosh clearly Caution is important during certain sports and physical activities. But i want to talk now about caution and fear in another context which is the context of being an artist in effective performer. I know you said that being an artist is about not being afraid not being afraid of what. Well i think first and foremost not being afraid of being you so not thinking about conforming to a certain standard. Not thinking about doing something because everyone else does it but doing something. Because that's what you really feel and basically being afraid of being individual and having your own style well to the piece that you performed definitely requires bravery fearlessness and that was a fearless performance. That was just incredible. Thank you so much for being with us. Hayden it's been a joy to to get to know you thank you. It was wonderful to do. The hayden is in fifteen from jamaica. Plain massachusetts daily joy. Couldn't we all use a bit of daily joy in our daily routines while if you sign up for from the top. Staley joy video series. You'll have incredibly joyful minute long music videos delivered to you. Daily sign up at from the top dot oregon cheer up support for. Npr comes from this station. And from the jack kente cook foundation providing scholarships to high achieving students with financial need jay k. c. f. dot org from the howard and geraldine pauling Family foundation committed to nurturing the development of talented emerging artists who share the joy that the performing arts spring to life and from the public. Welfare foundation committed to advancing transformative youth and criminal justice reforms from npr. It's from the top celebrating. The power of music in the hands of america's kids coming up will enjoy mysterious in playful tango. That composer samuel barber piano duet. It's performed by two excellent young pianists from honolulu piano. Peter dugan from the tops host is sponsored by susan. Gerald slavic peter. Thanks joanne before. We head out to honolulu. We've got to make a stop in the pacific northwest to meet an amazing clarinetist. He's seventeen year. Old bram shank from mercer island washington and he speaks as eloquently and conversation as he does through. His clarinet will hear his musical voice. I in his performance of oma jan bach by belco vetch Um hum You heard seventeen bram. Shank from mercer island washington performed amish jazz bach by belco vetch and bram thank you for introducing from the top to that piece. That's pretty wild to hear something that sounds like it could be three hundred years old But it was actually written by living composer. Yes really wonderful. He did a great job with that now. Kovac and j s bach both have their charms especially in your hands. But do you mind if i play back something completely different. This is music that you yourself just sent me and i want you to talk about it to who we listening to. So this is to lebron vin. He was a klezmer claire. Denis from the early part of the twentieth century he was what i would like to describe as the quintessential klezmer. He fled here from ukraine fleeing pegram's as a refugee any came here and he couldn't really hold down a job not really in a band or orchestra. It was because he was a partier. He was very much a big drinker and he would do tricks like take off his pants during his performances would perform backwards to the audience so they couldn't see his finger. Technique wanted to keep it a secret and he learned entirely by ear. I love how he just makes the clarinet cry. It's it's removing. it's super cool. Cuz klezmer is meant to imitate assasin. Which is a cantor. Everything about klezmer is all about creating simha or joy graham. It seems like you know quite a bit about klezmer music. And it's important part of your identity as a clarinetist right absolutely. I grew up with klezmer music. The reason why i chose. The clarinet is because of klezmer in away. The clarinet seemed natural. Given its dominance in the klezmer repertoire. So klezmer music is largely improvised. Which of course is very different from most classical clarinet. But also you describe tone difference between klezmer and classical atone difference that you had to learn. So can you talk about that well. The klezmer sound is incredibly vocal and guttural and meant to imitate as closely the perfection as well as the imperfections of the human voice. The classical sound has evolved to simulate my idea of what a perfectionist. What is the platonic form of a clarinet sound. It's much more focused in terms of the corners of the ombu scher than the klezmer. Sound as well as more higher tongue position To make sure that the sound remains bright but also is incredibly focused for clean and light articulation. It's clear how much you love clarinet and as you get ready for college. I know you've been thinking about pursuing clarinet in the future. What sorts of thoughts have been percolating. As you consider that. I think it's important to a multifaceted and i don't know where music will necessarily take me. I don't know whether that will be an orchestra or a professorship. Just playing it on the side but i do know that right now. Music is what i want to do in the future and i plan to go to a conservatory or a degree at a university for sure bram. Thank you so much for being with us today. It's been awesome getting to know you and getting a little glimpse into the way you appreciate the clarinet at. Thank you so much for having me. Bram shink seventeen years old from mercer island. Washington from the top is also presenting concerts by our young musicians every two weeks on facebook and youtube. These are intimate and fun. Music experiences hosted by peter dugan and recorded right from our young musicians homes search from the top on facebook or go to youtube dot com slash from the top pianist. Peter dugan here and our final stop on. Today's national tour is honolulu not bad ending up in hawaii. I'm guessing you might want to book yourself in additional week at a hotel after we finish meeting these next young performers. You know just to see how the water feels. And i would say the next piece we're going to enjoy has a certain tropical sort of sultry. Feel to it actually. It's called hesitation tango and it's from a collection of pieces by samuel barber called souvenirs performing it now in its piano. Four hands version are pianist. Now omi kobe. Yoshi and sophie new yen both from honolulu and both seventeen years old. That was hesitation tango from samuel barber's souvenirs for piano. Four hands performed by nomi kobayashi. Seventeen years old and sophie new yen seventeen years old as well. They're from honolulu. Hawaii and they're coached by joanna's zane fon and you know for all of our listeners. Just to remind you that the that performance you heard was to people sitting next to each other on one piano bench shoulder to shoulder Those last five notes of the peace. What's the secret. How did you get those five notes. So perfectly together. Well i do this thing righteous sniffer. Before you play that. Only i can hear the most of it is just based on our own feeling and our own intuition of do we think the other person is going to start and also because you've probably practiced together for so long that we kind of know we kind of anticipate when we're gonna come in and know only you're you're having to pay a lot of attention to sophie's melody right. Yeah i think in the beginning. The following that i had was too loud and overpowering her so i kind of had to learn how to tone my sound on or have it mesh better with her so that they wouldn't be too loud. We have to mention that you to one. The music teachers national association competition in the senior duet division. That's huge congratulations. Yeah it was quite a long journey for us president fact much because usually since as such a small state not many people even if they do go nationals. They don't win most of the time so we definitely weren't expecting anything. I can't say i'm surprised that you on. How did you to meet Nomi we actually met because we are both in science olympiad together and so so we just grew closer through the club. It makes perfect sense that you did science together. I that's why you have so much chemistry. I'm sorry i'm sorry. I couldn't resist seriously knowing that you both played piano. Did you ever do a project about the science of acoustics or some sort of music related scientific. Study together sophie. There's actually event that we do together called sounds of music which is exactly what you just said so we study acoustics and like sound theory and and then the other half of it is you have to make your own instrument and then you have to play in scale and has to be in tune describe your created. The one that we made recently as cold did leave. Oh it's it's basically a guitar with one. String find your own lumber and glue it altogether. We found a mooncake box. And then we tried to like hollow one half of it and just glue it onto the other side and we just stuck a stick through it and then we had some help too because one of our coaches friends. He likes specializes in making his own ukulele and stuff so we went over to his house and he helped us. I know that your parents must have encouraged you to into the science olympiad because both of you have scientific parents in the medical field sophie. I heard that your mom is always offering to bring you to work. But you're not that excited about that. She always offers to take me to go. Watch a c section or a woman give birth. because she's a gynecologist but it's not exactly the kind of thing. I would wanna watch on a saturday afternoon. Yeah that's a pretty intense experience for green your kid to work day now me when you look at your future. Do you see yourself going more towards the science path or the music path I think more towards the science path. But i'm still not sure you later on. We'll you to have so much in common love of science your love of music. You played beautifully together and It was just a lot of fun to to get to hang out and chat. Thank you both so much. thank you know me. Kobayashi and sophie neon both seventeen years old. From hana lulu hawaii. And that's about it for today's show but we're going to close today's program with a flashback finale. Meaning a performance from our archives. I thought we'd keep the aloha vibe flowing by featuring another performer. From the great state of hawaii. We'll hear zoe. Martin dewey k who was sixteen at the time along with pianist christopher o'riley performing the first movement of the sonata number eight in g major by ludwig von beethoven. They recorded what we're about to hear back in two thousand and six by the way since this recording zoe has gone pro and is currently avia list with the met orchestra in new york city before we enjoy that. Though i'd like to thank all the young performers we've met from around the country today for not only sharing their music with us but also for sharing their humanity and to you listening from your kitchen or in the car or cranking away on the peleton bike. Thank you for joining us. I'm pianist peter dugan. Please join us next week from the top. And now here's beethoven a August Top is written and produced by tim. Banker with postproduction mastering editing by senior producer. Tom vaguely are music. Directors meghan swan production manager map deichmann and david norville is our assistant producer are sound him includes editor in technical guru john. Escobar and chris rando from the tops. Executive director is gretchen nielsen. And i'm joanne robinson. Special thanks to the engineers who ran a remote sessions today. Blaine meisner at cue recording studios in falls church. Virginia children anderson at london studio in shoreline washington and jason. Todd leeann eddie at hawaii. Public radio in honolulu from the top is an independent nonprofit organization based in boston. If you'd like to appear on our program apply online at from the top dot org from the top supported in park paint award from the national endowment for the arts on the web at all stock. Uh-huh support for npr. Comes from this station. And from the bulge foundation supporting programs that protect the environment educate children and promote classical music from eric and wendy schmidt through the schmidt family foundation working together to create a just world where all people have access to renewable energy clean air and water and healthy food on the web at vishwanat dot org and from the sem see foundation at e. c. m. c. foundation dot org. Thanks for listening to our podcast. You know while from the is distributed by npr. It isn't owned by npr. It's an independent nonprofit and so we have to do our own fundraising to make it happen. Please consider making a donation to our ongoing entertainment and education programs at from the top dot. Org this message. From npr sponsor capital one offering capital one shopping downloadable browser extension that searches various sites for shoppers. What's in your wallet. More at capital one shopping dot com.

Peter dugan oakton julia legrand joseph haydn roy hargrove joanne grand rapids benjamin haiti Kim cook virginia wint marcellus Julia michigan Kente cook foundation braille institute haiti benjamin honolulu jamaica
Pang Warehouse Fire

Scene Of the Crime

1:00:14 hr | 11 months ago

Pang Warehouse Fire

"When he was young. Martin Pang played playboy. He wined and dined his paramore's on his parents dime, of course. But underneath the GLITZ and glamour there was a dark side to Martin's brand of charisma. Who knows when that evil seed began to grow inside this very lucky boy who was rescued from an orphanage I can a fairytale his adoptive parents made his every wish come true. But that, love. That attention. That Martin can do no wrong devotion just wasn't. It would never be enough as Martin matured into adulthood. He collected a fat paycheck from the family business without doing work. But the anger deep into no doubt stoked by feelings of entitlement and greed. Fertile ground for that rage to blossom into violence. These are bad dude. All of his ex wives of which at that time you had four really really afraid it's By the Nineteen Nine, hundred, ninety s Martin had racked up a couple of failed businesses under his belt ten at the time his acting career hadn't panned out by one, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety, four, he was desperate. What was narcissistic spoiled rich kid bending toward middle aged to do the constant supply of little red envelopes hundreds. It turns out over the years that his devoted mother would fill with folded up wads of cash. Envelopes, began to dry up. The once successful family business that had fueled Martin's exploits for decades had fallen on hard times. Who knows when the idea hit him Martin's great plan at Redemption but one thing is for sure it involved leaning into the nickname he earned in high school pyro paying. For his reputation of threatening to torch the property of his perceived enemies. But. How is it that paying turned this I R- toward his parents who had only ever showered him with anything and everything fancy clothes fast cars, elaborate trips vote an airplane rentals his whole life. He'd been a taker and so like that famous childhood book, The giving tree, his parents warehouse could give their golden boy one. Final sacrifice. itself. All it would take was one match by torching it. The insurance money would restore Martin to the lifestyle he was accustomed to what Martin hadn't planned for is that, for Seattle, firefighters would pay the ultimate price battling the blaze that he started. Tunnel Walter de Kilgore. A Gary a shoemaker. Firefighter Randy arm Firefighter. James T Brown. And to add insult to injury, Martin wasn't done gaming the system. I'm Karen Soria with Kim Shepard and this is the scene of the crime. This is such a tough case caroline because of the innocent lives that were lost and these were heroes. These were men who just wanted to go in and save life and property. Do things for others and lost their life in the process. It's it's a tragedy that has stuck with the city of Seattle I'm sure we'll see in this episode for decades and and will for decades to come, and before we get into the details of this case, I wanted to update everybody on another case where some innocent lives were lost, and we are finally finally starting to see a little bit of justice for Charlie and. Braden Powell. Now you might remember these are the sons of Susan. Cox. Powell she is the the mother who went missing. We did an episode on Su. We did a two parter martyr and she is missing presumed dead at the hands of her now dead husband Josh Powell but their sons Charlie and Brayden were actually on a visitation with Josh Powell when he blew up their home leading to the deaths of actually murdered the boys then blew. It just a murderer side, tragic murder suicide terrible, and and the hardest part of this is that the boys were supposed to be in the care of the state and so Charlie and Britain's grandparents had filed a lawsuit against the state of Washington claiming that they didn't do enough to protect those boys they had enough information. Those boys never should have been in Josh Powell's home in the first place and we just discovered last week that a judge has awarded the Cox Family Ninety eight million dollars for the miss handling of Charlie and Brandon's case led to their deaths and what's really You know looking back we. Had the opportunity to interview and Bremner the Seattle Attorney. The amazing Seattle attorney who was helping them with their case when the quarantine just started. So they had put that trial on hold because all of a sudden we're in a pandemic and so she really talked about the case. So we really recommend you going back. The disappearance of Susan Powell is a two part episode goes over the case it we talk with Anne Bremner who gives those details about what it's like. She's very close with the Cox family. Obviously, she's been working with them for a decade now, and since that episode actually had a chance to talk with. Charles Cox who is the grandfather of Charles Brayden and get his take on why he brought this lawsuit what he hopes will come out of the lawsuit and we're GONNA share a little bit more of that in a deepish thought. So I hope you'll look for that as well. But let's get back to this case and find out what happened to the Seattle firefighters and what happened to the man who killed them. Yes. Well, let's start off with backstory and for my sources let me just say they include the. Asian weekly, the Seattle Times King Five News Kiro seven and history link. So this story has to begin with Martin Pangs Parents Mary and Harry Mary Pang was born and raised in Seattle to immigrants who traveled to the West to work on the railroads. She was one of ten children in graduated from Franklin. High School. Harry. Pang was a world war two Air Corps veteran who flew on d day in Normandy and received a distinguished flying cross. So Marianne, Harry met at the University of Washington and married in nineteen, forty, five and they. Opened up a little grocery store on Beacon Hill that's southeast neighborhood in Seattle that is among the most racially diverse in the city. So a decade into their marriage Kim the pangs adopt two children from China son Hang. Wa was born in Hong Kong in nineteen, fifty, five, a very turbulent time in China. He was the fifth child and he was put up for adoption because the family couldn't afford another mouth to feed by adopting Martin the pangs potentially saved him from the great Chinese famine. Now, when I was researching this, it's like I. China has such a deep history and I think that you know I wasn't aware of the fact that there was this great Chinese famine which led to the one child law well, and before that I mean this I, I was shocked but a few years later after Martin was born, there was a combination of radical agricultural changes in regulation imposed by the government social pressure, economic mismanagement, and natural disasters such as drought and floods. But what happened was as a result of all this turmoil thirty, six, million people died of starvation between nineteen, Fifty, eight, and nineteen, sixty two. I early six million people it's hard to fathom it's hard to fathom and Martin got scooped up and was was taken out of that situation. So Martin was six months when he was adopted and the pangs also adopted a two year old girl from a different family both were adopted from the same orphanage and they named the little girl. Marlins. So the painting sold their grocery store and went into business with Mary's sister Ruby Chow who had started a frozen food business I WANNA take a minute to talk about Ruby because she was such a huge influence in Seattle. She was a rising star. Then she had opened Ruby chows in nineteen, forty, eight in Seattle. Now, this was the first Chinese restaurant outside of what was then called. Chinatown is now called. Chinatown. International district and was a popular hotspot with the political and business elite of Seattle and a magnet for celebrities. Ruby was a mover and a shaker she was a waitress. She was like ran. That was host I mean she just did it all she hobnobbed with all of these like elite people got this really great reputation and and her her restaurant just took off and over her career she helped a lot of people including a young Bruce Lee, and here she is talking about how their how their paths crossed Bruce came up here. Came to Shia to see the fair he liked it very much she. Then, he told me he wasn't shy about it. He told me that he wanted to prove his father that he could go to university without him. and. Would I? Let him stay with us and he's a very smart young man very talented one and very handsome gentlemen. And Very Resourceful So Ruby had a lot of irons in the fire. So can I just add? Yeah. Did Bruce Live with her? Yes. He lived with her and he waited tables at the restaurant. So cool. It really isn't. It shows like she was. In that interview, as she's later in life you know she really talks about like she would help people if she could. She just really built bridges in the community and so she was friends with Bruce Lee's parents and so he came to her and said, hey, and she's like, yes. So as I mentioned Ruby had started this frozen food business, the pangs go into it with her. and. They would use her restaurant kitchen during off hours to prepare cook and package the frozen food. By hand you have to remember there was no Chinese frozen food at that time. So this is like a re they started at the the ground floor of his business and it really took off unfortunately the partnership soured. It's not clear what caused the bad blood between the two sisters but Ruby left the frozen food business and unfortunately, the sisters wouldn't speak for thirty years saw. That's sad. That's disappointing I in clearly they were close if they were sharing facilities like that. But but going into business together is is super stressful at especially when you talk about using a the same kitchen as a restaurant during the day and then to create these frozen foods at night I could see. There being a lot of conflict there with how space is used and how things are left every day, and I mean that that can create a lot of conflict well, and if you think that they that they were what both of them came from a family of ten children, you know how that might have affected the other siblings and the the parents you know when you have these familial riffs. People pop probably like how can you not talk to your sibling for thirty years? We had another sibling so. So so anyway, Ruby eventually went into Seattle politics and among her accomplishments, she was considered a major bridge between Seattle's Chinese community and the city at large. She was the first Asian American member of the King County. Council would serve three terms and she was known for her civic activist. But. Let's get back to the pangs in nineteen, sixty three. They moved the frozen food business into a warehouse that was built in nineteen o eight in Chinatown and Mary paying became the face of that business by the nineteen eighties though I mean they had just worked so hard they built this business as I. said from the ground up and revenues were over a million dollars. Now for kicks I looked up how much a million dollars would be worth today. With a nineteen eighty and it would be worth over three point three million dollars a year a year yet so. Well that's a big chunk of change and the pangs move their family to Mercer Island. It's a very affluent island near Seattle. They had an amazing view but a very sad family dynamic seemed to be playing out as the pangs poured their heart and soul into the business working seven days a week. You know. Martin was extremely favored from the moment that that they were adopted and Marlins was harshly disciplined by the parents. Her life was a living hell because Martin he was like a huge bully and for him feeling superior to his victims like marlins she was the perfect target. She was known to be timid unsure of herself and scared of him. So it's like that family dynamic where they're latchkey kids you know their parents are working really hard. He was known to lock her out of the House I mean it was just a really like they had all this affluence but you know like every other family, there's there's some drama going on there. But it seems like it was kind of more than the typical drama and families because it's worth noting that Marles graduated from high school she left home moved to San Francisco and never returned. So I, looked into this a bit deeper and was told that when Marlins left, she walked out the door and went to I five and just hitched a ride with an older couple of California. Wow. Her parents never searched for her. They knew she was in California but had actually written her into their will for one dollar in the hopes that she wouldn't be able to contest it their disdain for her and her memory was. Allegedly Palpable MARLA was a name not mentioned often so sad and not understanding why yeah that's the hardest part it's like what it all my research wasn't that that was as as much as I could get about what happened there but apparently Martin could do no wrong and she was shy and I I mean I can't I can't explain it but that's what I've got so far but. All that was fined by Martin when he did speak of Marlins, he would say unpleasant mean-spirited and aggressive things like she didn't deserve any of the family's wealth. It's obvious that the only thing that marvelous was to Martin was a threat to his parents wealth. So from spoiled brat to entitled Teen Martin Loved, Fast Cars, speedboats, and travel. He wasn't into getting good grades and as a teen, he was known to have anger issues in acted recklessly. His peers later give him the nickname pyro Pang for threatening to burn the homes and businesses of people who wronged him. Yet. So I was looking up pyro mania because I knew this case I was GonNa see his fits about yeah about somebody setting a fire like this and and also I could sort of relate when I was in high school I kind of the one who has always tapped to start the bonfire and things like that because they were just kind of good. At it and I enjoyed it not to say that I was in any way pyromaniac but I can understand the fascination and the enjoyment of what is you enjoy because I enjoy being able to accomplish the task of setting a fire like I feel really good about like, okay. Guys. Watch me build the spire. I've watched enough seasons of episodes of survivor to be like. What. But I feel like with you as you're describing you're. Getting a little bit more. It's usually a challenge of like how big of a fire can you create and that was the fun for me was to see how big can you make this fire but still make it a contained fire right now to get out of hand. and. I could make some pretty big fires. Surpassing allies. Yes. It's a, it's a level of like control over something that can be so dangerous and so. Scary for some people. But then at the same time to feel like I can have a level of control over it is is a little bit like you get a little high off of that right I mean, I think this is a great description of it because like I have a relative when he was a little boy and you know my kids rented lighting fireworks but he really really got into it like I loved watching him because there is like some like a spark a magic like I can just see him holding his little coke can and just being like I'm so excited and just see that. Same kind of excitement within you talking about you know playing playing with fire, right right and you know seeing the different colors that you can make depending on what you're burning and anyways there's there's so many things that you can do with it. But when it comes to the actual disorder that the pathological disorder of pyro mania according to psychology today people with pyromaniac are deeply fascinated by fire. Of course, they may also experience feelings of satisfaction or release of built up inner tension or anxiety through setting fires and I could. I could see that I was i. was attention anxious person as as a kid risk that. Well but But yeah. So they say it's it's more common in males and females. It tends to be connected with people who have learning disabilities or lack social skills. It also tends to overlap with people who have other issues like mood disorders or substance use disorders had they have impulse control issues? That's when it becomes. It goes from being a fascination with fire to becoming Pie Romania. You don't have the impulse control you use it in a way to hurt other people things like that. So that's when it kind of like crosses and Martin certainly did that he would use. It to threaten people and seemed to enjoy to do to do that. But after High School Martin went to college for a couple of years, then dropped out and continue to suck off his parents generosity by then Martin had perfected how to get money without doing anything for it at least very little. He loved to act intellectually superior to others and act like the big shot driving a company least Porsche while he collected that paycheck through the family business one neighbor said quote I've been told by people who worked down there that he liked the title and salary but not the work. And then there were his marriages between nineteen, seventy, eight and nineteen eighty-nine pain got married four times none lasted longer than nineteen months and each were filled with rage and violence violent man often when to use fire against enemies he's bad dude. But all of his ex wives of which at that time he had four were really really afraid of. That stuff wilson he was one of the amazing Seattle Times investigative reporters who lived and breathed this case and I was able to talk to him about his incredible work on this case, getting the inside scoop of what was going on inside these toxic marriages. So his first wife was hospitalized for a broken back nose and ear drum after he attacked her in nineteen seventy, nine she press charges but would later retract. them the night before the trial out of fear Martin allegedly killed her pets and threatened to burn down her house Martin, second marriage lasted seven months and it's alleged that he drained her life savings of five thousand dollars and backhanded her which broke her jaw and he beat her on other occasions according to a police report after the couple separated in nineteen eighty-three, it's alleged that Martin's scaled the wall of her home using. Suction Cup devices broken and beat her up. I mean you mentioned how frightening that would be? That's insane. Well, and it makes me think that anybody who's dating someone in thinking of marrying them should do a criminal background check at this point I mean well, and we've talked about the so many times I'm sure he probably did not have a a as you'll find out nothing ever came of so their police reports but. There would be no conviction trials or yes. So there was one thing that happened which I'll get to in a minute but Martin's third wife, research? Johannesen. Had a child with an and worked for pangs parents at the warehouse after she divorced Martin she and their daughter went to live with his parents and continued working for the pangs Martin threatened to kill Johannesson in one phone call after their divorce according to police records. So police records also revealed that Martin's fourth marriage ended in. She reported that Martin had tried to hire somebody to kill her and that he allegedly threatened to set fire to her home. It's alleged that during these marriages, Martin would have girlfriends on the side and was an expert at the art of lying and concealing his mood swings would change on a dime from raging anger to fo- compassion that was convincing until you fully understood the true evil that lie inside Martin would his wives would look into his eyes in that moment of rage or hatred and see the depths of darkness. So. Martin sounds like he terrorized his ex wives and yet he was never really called to account for these actions in one case against one of his ex wives he was ordered by a judge to take classes in anger management but I think that was about it. So a picture is beginning to emerge. Selfish and titled Man who has all these failed marriages and several failed business ventures. Martin would eventually move to California in an attempt to become an actor. Ironically, the one part he did land was as a rescuer in a made, for TV movie where he helped victims in the World Trade Center bombing. So it's almost like he played a firefighter I know that's crazy. Yeah. I, Mean Jang is clearly he had some acting shops. Because he kept convincing people to marry him. Yeah. He had to have a way of well in one of the things that I read you know. He really knew how to wine and dine you know these relationships and the the parents money fueled this and you know so he knew the right things that he should be doing. Oh Yeah and he knew what to say and he knew like. I mean I can imagine a woman feeling swept off their feet. You have this person you do this lavish lifestyle maybe gets them gifts they go in great restaurants and then you see the other side of it. Right so in the nineties, the business suddenly though it isn't doing so well, the frozen food business was sliding victim increased competition it business was slow the the plant was operating only sporadically Martin could have rolled up his sleeves and try to help his aging parents turn the ship around. Yeah. Because how old were they at this point they had to be at least in their In their sixties. Yeah. You know they spent their entire life building, this business essentially but no not quote pyro Pang instead Martin tries to talk his parents into selling the building believing they'll give him a chunk of the proceeds, but they refuse they finally tell him no well, because this is what I can imagine like this is their legacy. Yeah. This is there. They've spent days. They were known. They would work seven days a week you from Sunup to sundown the work ethic was incredible and I'm sure they were just like. Hope that their son would step up but that didn't happen. Around. This time Martin starts talking about torching his parents building for the insurance money. He confides in a very unlikely confidante, his Ex Wife Reza, the one who's living with his parents. Yes, and she was his third wife and research despite the abuse she suffered at banks hand she still worked with the family and circumstances forced her into playing a dangerous game. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer remember they had a daughter together and she was still very much afraid of him and believed he was pretty much capable of anything she listened to him and humor has plans of burning down the building but also hoped it was all talk so. I have to kind of set the stage here because in one of the things that I read, she had tried 'cause, I'm sure you're wondering why didn't she just go to his parents if she was close to him but I I also think that there have probably been so many times throughout their relationship where he has threatened to burn things down. Yeah and how many times did he actually carry it out? It doesn't sound like he really carried it out as that often he did carry it out like one time he went after a business associate and threatened I. Don't know if he carried it out I think he might have I. Don't know. Maybe all talk maybe she's gotten. So used to him making these sorts of threats that. She's desensitized to it will the beatings and stuff were definitely well, the beatings that's other story but I mean the the actual pyromaniac part of it of threatening to start fires if he hasn't actually been carrying that out up until this point, I could see where she would just be so desensitized that she's like, yeah, right. Whatever well, I know that one time she she went to. Her in laws and basic was like, Hey, you know Martin's talked about you know killing you for the insurance money and I guess the mom was like. You know doesn't surprise me. That was the response. It is just kind of like so disturbing. Yeah. So she's really but let me send another check. In a little envelope maybe he can use that. The. Hitman money well, you know, Oh, I know wouldn't that just have. Yeah. It had run out by then so. So she basically, as they thought it was you know she humored him until December, Nineteen ninety-four Martin at this time was living in California because he's trying to you know he's a struggling actor. He makes a trip back to Washington with his then girlfriend to get his stored possessions out of the paying warehouse. So this is obviously action is is taking place. There's no reason why he would suddenly just come to get his stuff. Leaving behind though in the basement, he left behind racing fuel from his past glory days when he could afford to play the race car driver. Martin actually told reason that the fire would be set Friday December sixteenth or Saturday December seventeenth after his parents left work. Now at this time, Reza believed him. On December thirteenth, she made a call to farmers insurance telling them that the fire was expected to take place in three or four days. Farmers Insurance then notified the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, and the next day an ATF agent interviewed Reza. She had called them like a week or two before the fire described it. Exactly. They surveilled the warehouse for Awhile and then call it off but that was his one one mistake. You there were. Twenty four mistakes that we itemize. So when the arson didn't occur, the surveillance was ended just before Christmas after the date for the fire elapsed Martin went back and ask reset to start the fire herself. She signed saying Hey I've got a child here. I can't take the risk. Why would she even want to do it in I? Mean does he think that she wants part of the insurance money? What what motive would she have to help him? A fear. Well, yeah. I mean she was in a horrible horrible place like she was totally afraid of him. I feel like she just hoped it would all go away and had the courage to want see like I totally believe that you are now going to do this and she steps up and goes to the authorities. So recent didn't tell law enforcement that Martin was still scheming burn down his parents building because she assumed that they were still surveilling the bill. Yeah. She already told them she she did an interview with them. She knew the feds were involved. The insurance company was involved. I would think, yeah. You guys are the professionals you take it from here, right? Right. So not. Only, were they not watching the building they weren't keeping tabs on Martin pain on January Fifth Nineteen, ninety five at around six, thirty PM Harry paying leave the building it's believed the fire was set just a few minutes before seven by seven to a band member that used part of the building to practice called nine one one saying smoke was coming in. So this guy is leasing buildings apparently one of the heavy metal band and one of them went to Mercer Island, high school with Martin, and so they they rented that space. So He's sitting there and you know jamming. By himself and he's like well, I'm really on fire here. There's smoke. Yeah. So he's like gets out goes next door to the payphone, drops a quarter and pay phone. What's that I? Know? Exactly this is nine, hundred, ninety five. So the warehouse was located, just a few blocks from the kingdom and within minutes five engine companies two ladder companies, an ambulance one paramedic unit and air supply unit and to command officers were dispatched and they got there like really quick high level fire department officials knew that the building had been the target of arson threats but the fire companies that responded did not know. The boots on the ground responders also didn't have a building plan. They had no idea that there was a basement. In that building because remember this was built in nineteen o eight there was all these. Weird additions and they just they had no idea. This is like what eighty years after it was built and it's probably been change. The footprint may have changed many times huge. Yes. So a large plume of smoke filled the air the wind was calm that day and the column of smoke rose vertically above the fire firefighters are trying to contain the fire from all angles of the building by. Seven twenty something goes terribly wrong battling the blaze on the first floor. They don't know that below their feet in the basement was the belly of the beast, the origin of the fire explosive flames licking the support beam. The old building made a rumbling sound and the unthinkable a section of the main floor plunged into the basement below as flames spewed from the center and black smoke rendered everything invisible. Here's fire chief Harris who says because of the heroic seven firefighters were able to get out? On that person, the fire had concern up this crew and he told us crew to get the heck out of there and they bailed out through our two windows on the west side of the building, not some of the heroics that were exhibited at that fire last. So that's one of the lieutenants who would perish in the fire and basically he's saying get the hell out split second later to fire lieutenants and two firefighters. Twenty feet into the fourteen hundred degree hell. Below. At, roll call four firefighters were not accounted for they tried to rescue their brothers but by then the fire had grown into five alarms more than one hundred firefighters battled the blaze and smoke could be seen from Bellevue to Mercer Island and the five alarms. I mean that is that is unheard of that almost never happens that means that they have called in five different fire houses to come help them with the blaze. Yeah, I mean it was a I mean to say it was. On fire I mean. It literally was an inferno and can you imagine what that was like for the firefighters battling at knowing that there were four of their brothers in there they tried to get them out and they couldn't I mean. It's like not only are you contending with this huge? You have to keep working you have to keep working in you know you can't help. Then you know you can't help that Matt's tragic I mean I I almost I almost hope that they weren't told. About the firefighters that were still in their. Her mean the new crews as as the new cruiser arriving to go in I. Hope they weren't told just because. There was nothing they could do about it and why burden their minds at that point with this added layer of stress little by this time as you can imagine, all the News cruiser down there and it's all coming out there. You know it's it's in real time coming out. Yeah. But they don't have twitter and facebook and all these things. So they may not have known the details of what was going on. Well, I think that when they did, you know when you do the roll call. Know you're talking and then fire one firefighters talking to another. You know I mean I through the radio calls all that. Nineteen ninety five but it's not like eight hundred, ninety two. Yeah so. I guess it's my to protect them. Sad hope that they didn't have. No. Probably did that Lieutenant Walter Kilgore Firefighter James Brown. Randy terlicker died of asphyxiation after their air tanks emptied lieutenant gray shoemaker tariff. Wait a minute wait a minute. So they dropped into the fire but were not killed instantly. Doesn't sound like they were down there for several minutes at least. Yeah. Is So lames alive before they were asphyxiated. Yeah. So they didn't get all the bodies out until seventy two hours after the fire was reported. and. So Lieutenant Greg. Shoemaker who lost his helmet an oxygen mask in the fall from the first floor died of smoke inhalation. And Kim. It's. It's hard to put into words what this tragedy did to Seattle collectively but also the sacrifice which firefighters make to keep the public safe. Here's then mayor norm rice produce should remind every Seattle resident of the enormous risks and terrible sacrifice just that our firefighters make every day as they protect this community later, thousands would gather outside a huge funeral procession and televised. As the bagpipes are playing here, a huge screen has been mounted in there showing images, the firefighters with their family and them. It's children. They pan the audience, and so many attendees are in uniform. There's not a dry eye in the place of the final bells are. Lieutenant Walter. De Kilgore. Lieutenant Gary a shoemaker. Firefighter. Randy aren't Firefighter. James T Brown. I mean the footage on this was so difficult to. Watch. I. Wonder about the victims do we know much about their stories their families? Yeah I mean the two lieutenants were older I, think they were in their mid forties and they were both married and had children, and then one of the firefighters was married just started out and then another one was. Four years in. So they were beloved and the procession with all the fire trucks and all the people I mean it was just such a huge huge deal. Yeah and I just want to note that you know it's not just that we lost four four heroes for firefighters in a line of duty that is tragic but. Individually, we lost family members. We lost fathers we lost brothers like. Then, as individuals their lives mattered outside of being a fire like, yes, you know it's fantastic that they were first responders that they wanted to take care of their community and protect lives and property and like that is. Enormous. But outside of that, they also had lives like they were individuals who loved and cared about and who loved and cared about others and that was taken out of the world. So I just I just wanted to. Talk about the victims a little bit because I feel like in this case. It. It almost is lost I mean we say four Seattle firefighters and you instantly go oh, that's a shame and it's like you haven't heard their names yet. Yeah and this was the biggest in the Seattle Fire departments, his story. This was the biggest loss and I. think that we can link are to our youtube channel this video that's like a twelve minute video that they put together and in the background of the video is the last dance by Garth Brooks And it's just so like you can't. Get it out of your head. So if you have an interest in learning more about who the firefighters were, we will link that to our youtube channel because it's definitely although it's you know it's something that we we shouldn't forget and Seattle doesn't forget you know especially when we get more deeper into the story that that that these deaths possibly could have been prevented, and so we'll get more into that but in the local news coverage of the fire. There's an interview with Harry Pang and he just sounds so crushed when they heard of the fire in the deaths of the four Seattle firefighters, pangs had no idea that their own son was pretty much a primary suspect. The following week after the fire reset again stepped up agreeing to wear a wire during multiple conversations. Martin wouldn't admit involvement in their initial conversation. He admitted only to joking about his plans to burn down his parents warehouse for the insurance. Yeah a brave woman no. Oh. Yes. I was blown away by her bravery to not only have this guy who has threatened her who has abused her but has carried out this threat and actually killed people, and now she's going in with a wire to talk to him I. Know that takes some guts. It takes some real guts in the second conversation he spoke with her even less the third. He just didn't even want to have anything to do with resell although I don't think he suspected her of wearing a wire, but he wanted to step way back from this because it had gone sideways and you know Martin was placed under police surveillance. As law enforcement began to build their case against him? So at this point, they know for sure that it was arson and did the insurance company never pay out because of that I don't know the particulars of whether I I think that they quickly learned that it was are. So I'm just wondering actually ever got any money. I'm sure he didn't get anywhere but his parents but who knows if they ended up giving it to him you know I mean I. Don't know I would not at this point I I would hope that they didn't but I'm assuming that because they didn't have anything to do with. Arson they would still get paid on the policy, but I don't know. But one thing that we do know is that they knew about this plan, the ATF the Seattle Fire Department now, the SPD's involved on this you know they. So he was you know looking pretty good for this at some point they realized that it was arts arson I don't know exactly when but they probably figured it out pretty quickly because when they determined that it started in the Basement Indiana fuel down there, they usually can figure that stuff out pretty quickly. Yeah. So despite being shadowed by police paying bolted on January seventeenth from Seattle. To California on an Amtrak train. So remember he lived in California, but still he he went back home surprising that they didn't have some kind of court order that he stay in the state or something I know. So by the time investigators gathered enough evidence to arrest paying he disappeared on February nineteen seven weeks after the fire he flew from Los Angeles to Mexico City and then to Rio he actually purchased the ticket to Brazil in his own name and was even so bold as to apply for a visa the FBI stepped in when it became known that he had fled to Brazil then an international fugitive. Now does says he and his writing partner. Eric. Nodar were also hot on pangs trail Eric even God airline reservation person to check the records for Martin paying on a certain flight and that person confirmed yet he taken that flight to. Rio. I jumped on a flight assumes like a debris. Oh, the try to get there. But as I was like either at the airport going to report the news on Cross, he was arrested in. Rio. Was GonNa be that easy to talk to When I got there though I met this guy and we'll Montoya who is a fascinating character in this so we'll get to ban well Montoya in a minute but one Seattle journalists king. Fives Linda Byron did get to speak with Martin in Zile. She waited at the doorstep of the courthouse Linda Byron by the way is like a Seattle institution is phenomenal journalist who's been here for many many many years and just he's awesome and Kudos. To her for like put in that sweat equity waiting for that interview and I think that that's what local investigative reporting is so critical and I just wanted to shine the spotlight. So brightly on the folks that covered this case and now, but also you know this investigative reporting is so important but I'll get off that. So box for a second when Linda did speak with Martin who at the time was denying any involvement in the arson. Let me know how good you think his acting skills are about the four deaths environment I cried. You know I think of my family and what would have happened in those shoes when I finally got up the Courage inside to go down and see the building it was like saying goodbye to sibling. And I also said a prayer for firemen and families. Okay. He sells he's reading from a script like he's figured out ahead of time what he wants to say and he's he's memorized it and he's just reading it. There's no emotion whatsoever in what he's saying yeah I mean. I. Wasn't buying it. You know later Linda wasn't either would say that she wasn't either but. Martin like I said was playing the victim card. She asked him why he fled to Brazil and he was acting like a he fled there will because he was being falsely persecuted will. They're supposed to be no extradition from Brazil figures that The dust would settle the truth would come out. and. Then, I could go back. Basically I was running scared because I was being railroaded still am. I know I just WanNa note the fact that he used the term railroaded and his grandparents came to the country to build the railroad and I almost feel like he's he's using their memory in vain by using that terminology. Well, I don't think that you can't even compare him to his. No these hard working immigrant you know came to America for any. He's just completely there's just how far off the rails. Hello. All of these like railroad terms that we. Use these days it just it reminds me of how far he has gone away from the legacy that his parents and grandparents have built for his family and I think that's one of the most unsatisfying things is that there's no reason why other than who he is, he decided to be this way You know many times you hear cases and he's like Oh they had the most horrible childhood Oh that you know not to justify but to understand it. There's no understanding no understanding the total narcissism, the total entitlement. But this is when when we start talking about the real psychology of it and chemical imbalances in the brain possibly and other things that must be happening that we don't know about because there has to be a reason right? This isn't normal human behavior, but it isn't a reason. It doesn't sound like at least it's not a reason that came from his nurturing as he was growing up this. Somehow is built into his nature. Yeah and he and the real reason Martin fled to Brazil he knew that Washington State allows for first degree murder and arson charges. If firefighters death results from an arson, even if the arsonists didn't intend on killing anyone because an arsonist ought to know that firefighters will be responding to the fire in Brazil. The law is completely different, and that is exactly why Martin went there. They don't have the first degree murder for arson. So. Let's get back to Manuel Montoya because he plays a huge pivotal role inness. That's the person that duff met in Brazil. When he tried to get that interview with Martin, pain men well is a music promoter I. Think then he became an FBI informant and was like hanging out with Martin paying in. Radio. For. Days, even tabs on them for the FBI I didn't find that out until a year later or something I just meant Montoya there because I was trying to find Tang or anyone that had talked to him in Greenville. So when Pang was still in California as he was hatching his plans to flee Brazil, he had convinced Montoya that he was innocent because Monterey had met him earlier in the L. A. Area, and at that time was helping to set him up in real. This guy that's falsely accused of something needs to go to Rio for a while get out of the United States. You know. So he was introducing him to people and I I think even helped to arrange an apartment for him. So I don't WanNa, compare him to Ted Bundy but I think that when you hear the interview, they're still that kind of like that he did with Linda? Byron there's control piece there and he he's also it's not just wining and dining the women. It sounds like he was really able to convince people that he was a good guy and. That they just had all wrong and they didn't see this evil inside of him because he knew how to play that card fortunately Montoya realize that paying was lying to him about this. This you know being unjustly accused when he saw a piece on America's most wanted and learned about the death of the firefighters and he called the FBI immediately and realized like I'm on the wrong side of this and I will be your confidential informant the FBI then sent Montoya. To Brazil explicitly to keep track of paying as they worked on getting an extradition order and that would just take them for ever at one point authorities actually discussed kidnapping Martin taking him to Uruguay which had a different different extradition laws that plan didn't work out and you know the FBI start getting antsy and they decided, hey, we should probably not lose paying because we know that he's slippery. They wanted to get him into custody, but because he was in. Brazil. They had to work with Brazilian authorities. They arrested him on March Fifteenth Nineteen ninety-five the legal battles would take over a year. Payne's lawyers also argued that an alleged confession paying made to FBI agents in Rio on March sixteenth was coerced. So they were trying they were working through all these things. 'cause Pang to the FBI agents did say did it you know and then they tried to walk that back guests who his attorney was in this John Henry Brown. Isn't he everyone's attorney think. Everyone's attorney I. Think so. So basically these legal battles were, of course just what? Martin hope for lots of attention. Well, and his lawyers did their best to limit as possible sentence. So they could negotiate this because until that was negotiated, he wouldn't come back. Prosecutors were trying to get him back without any conditions. But in many ways their hands were tied, he wouldn't be extradited unless they agreed that that he wouldn't be charged with four counts of first degree murder. So February twenty-ninth and nineteen ninety-six paying was finally extradited to the US and by February nineteen, Ninety Eight, he finally pled guilty to four counts of manslaughter and was sentenced to. Thirty, five years in prison, and that was such a huge blow to firefighters to the community like everybody was like, how how is he only getting thirty five years? Yeah. He took away four lives and affected four families and entire city and entire fire department like his crime. The really had so many ripple effects and such devastating impact on the community. It's hard to believe that he would get out of jail when he was what probably in his sixties he'd be ready for parole. Well, you know as they say, hold my beer I got more common of voice. So paying was a model prisoner until twenty thirteen. That's when he started planning for his upcoming release with a scheme to create an opulent lifestyle for himself by committing identity fraud I, talk Seattle Police Detective Todd Jacobson who played a key role in that investigation apparently paying and his accomplice plan to set up credit card accounts in the names of firefighters, police, officers, and witnesses involved in pangs nineteen ninety-five conviction for manslaughter. His plan was to funnel money from those accounts into offshore bank accounts, but they needed an informant on the outside. With him he had a I on the outside. He was looking for another person on that side that had good information about identity theft his first on the outside who ended up being named in this case with Charles McLean or chuck McLean. McLean. Had worked at Taylor Casino had been let go up there. But while he was working there, he had come across routing numbers account numbers for their accounts receivable. So our informant kinda inserted our undercover as this person who could carry out the actual. Of Setting up fake credit card accounts and fake bank accounts and purchase orders and things like that and Jimmy Martin both had conversations where they believe that they could get between five and seven million minimum maybe up to twenty million dollars through the casino. So basically not only were they were they scheming potentially rip off to Leyla but then also millions from the Va.. Claim. Also, supposedly Charles had the account and routing numbers for the VA and paying said that the topic could get between fifteen hundred million out of the va for those accounts do with good behavior he'd get out and twenty eighteen. He planned to take this nest egg back to Brazil where he previously fled while under investigation in one, thousand, nine, hundred, five, fortunately the three month undercover investigation toward those plans. Having several meetings with McLean. We had three meetings with him with our undercover where he passed over information for us, and during that timeframe, we also had recorded conversations between art form it and paying while he was in prison and then first week of June of thirteen. We end up having the third meeting with McLean outside with our undercover and we arrested him at that time. When we arrested him, we interviewed him. Full Confession to not only him. But all tanks involvement and emphasize that Pang was pretty much the driving force behind this whole scheme. So the sad fact is this fraud scheme didn't add much time to a sentence. In fact Martin paying got thirty three percent of his thirty five year sentence reduced for good behavior. He was released from prison on September twenty seventh twenty eighteen he served a total of twenty three years and still owed about three million dollars. In restitution his parents died while he was incarcerated Harry paying two thousand, four Mary paying in two, thousand nine and paying was released. He was released without parole because at the time of his crime, there was no allowance for community supervision had he been convicted in two thousand eighteen he would have a mandatory thirty, six months of community supervision. So he's just out about and I asked hot about how he felt about paying working the system yet again i. Don't try to pay attention to what happens afterwards because most likely I'm not can be happy with the ending with either plea bargains or light sentences or for his incidents getting off but third for good time So I try not to follow up with that but with Martin Tang is like well you WanNa do right 'cause you know he's probably using they get the sense that these four firefighters anyone else involved newsroom free to. I feel so bad for him to think of all the hard work that he puts into these investigations and then he feels like he has to walk away because the system always lets him down I know but I think that's Sad on the other hand I commend him for the mental health and like knowing like, yeah, and and he's a he's a trainer now too and so he he trains his officers detectives to kind of have that same mindset because once it's out of their hands, you know they don't know what's going to happen. So let's talk about the legacy of this case. Duff says, they're investigative reporting revealed twenty four errors. We did a big article called twenty four mistakes that officials made with the with the arson fire that was our seminal article after after months of investigating many changes were made about how firefighters respond to fires, and that's why investigative journalism as I said. is so important and here's stuff to standard in journalism when there's faster, what went wrong? What mistakes were made? It's a standard investigative angle in almost all disasters. So that's what we did here with a lot of shoe leather reporting. So in one, thousand, nine, jury awarded five point six million dollars in damages from the city of Seattle to the widow of James. Brown. The families of the other three firefighters killed settled claims ranging from four hundred and fifty thousand to three point five, million jurors would go onto a sign seventy, five percent of the blame and the firefighters deaths to the Seattle, fire department and paying was deemed twenty-five percent responsible. How do you decide? A percentage of someone's life that you you know like a life is lost. So seventy five percent I don't. have to do that but stunning. Stunning. Stunning to you but in a stunning turn of events. Jessica stunning Martin Pangs. Attorneys actually blamed the fire department. The attorney said the firefighters would not have died if the department had carried out a plan to prevent the arson after receiving a tip in mid December, they said the deaths were if not totally at least in great part of responsibility of the Fire Department. That's insane I. Mean I get where they made mistakes and yes they did have some liability and yes, they should have done things differently but to say that. Therefore paying was not responsible for seventy five percent of this I. Don't think I agree with that. So you know duff weighs in on that. He said that it wasn't surprising because you know defense attorneys have to do what they do but you know most people in Seattle just weren't buying it obviously under our law is somebody sets an arson no matter how many mistakes the firefighter make that arsonist is responsible does twenty four mistakes are the reasons their lives were not saved. They're not the reason their lives were lost. Yeah. I just I think that's an important distinction. You know they didn't cause firefighters to go into a burning building died I mean that was caused by the arsonist. Yeah, and there were so many they've done so much obviously not only were they hit in the belt with these huge payouts deservedly. So but they made a lot of changes one, some of the changes that came about well like having a plan of the building. You know before they had no plan to even when they when they went to the fire. So that just stuff like that where you take a three hundred, sixty degree look at at at what's going on before you send firefighters and you communicate with each other, they should have known about that investigation firefighters should have known that there was already an arson. You know that that somebody had threatened to burn down the building they should have known that going in. So lots of different changes in the way that they do business I mean they hadn't even inspected the building. So lots of changes that they made another sat aspect of it. You know talk about his parents again they knew he had committed this horrible crime but would never accept it not truly apparently Martin wrote a letter to his mother when he was incarcerated, it was very short just wanting to let her know that she needed to leave him enough in will. So that he could buy a sailboat and travel around the world doing good deeds for people the neurons I can't even he. He clearly has mental issues where he does not get it. You can't treat people that way. And then come back and ask for more. It has worked his whole life though that's the thing spoiling a I mean I think it might be difficult for you and I have I have five. You have four you know. Is it possible? Yeah. Many. I I just. I. Can't I just can't imagine like, yes I'm GonNa give this to you. Yes I'm GonNa give this to you. Yes. I'm going to give this to I mean I can't judge that but you're kind of like how does that feel good how they? How do they learn personal responsibility if they are never and there's such hard working people yeah. But I can also understand where people who grew up in the Circumstances they did immigrant family with ten children. They probably had a really really hard life growing up, and they probably felt really good about the fact that they could. They could give their children a life and the luxuries that they never could have dreamed of when they were growing and you know that is the American dream being able to pull yourself up by the bootstraps and have a nice life and provide for your children. And thank you for that because that helps a little bit but I still am like I just all those little red envelopes stuffed with cash it some point when they knew what he was doing when they knew about his crimes, you think that that would change and I think the surprising thing here is that even after all of his misdeeds came to light, he still was acting like a spoiled Brat. Yeah so one interesting. Thing to when he was released on parole he decided that he wanted to change his name. He then chicken out at the last minute according to the Tri City Herald he skipped Kennewick court hearing to change his name to mark son. Lee. For he says cultural religious and protective reasons apparently, they believe that he missed the meeting because he didn't want to have a confrontation with the sister of one of his victims Kim. Shoemaker Anderson. whose brother was one of the four Seattle firefighters she traveled from enumclaw and was gonNA raise hell and he remembered her because and I just love this. Go Cams. Go- Kim Games are awesome. Wait you're gonNA love even more because apparently during his trial in one, thousand, nine, hundred, five, she attended every day and once found herself sitting behind Pang and she was daring his long braided hair hanging behind his chair and she recalls her her husband whispered don't. Bat Braid. The judge removed her from the courtroom telling her she'd had enough for the day. I gotta say Kim can girl after hard? Yeah. Yeah exactly. And again, if you want to find out more about these Seattle firefighters, we're going to have that video about their lives of on our youtube channel. You can also find us at scene of the crime podcast DOT com. I'm Carol Massaro with Kim Shepard, and this is the scene of the crime.

Martin Seattle California Martin Pang High School FBI Brazil Harry Pang Harry Mary Pang arson Kim Shepard Martin Tang Manuel Montoya Marlins Seattle Times Ruby Chow Walter de Kilgore pyro Pang Teen Martin
Biden's China First Foreign Policy Exposed

The Charlie Kirk Show

1:10:16 hr | 4 months ago

Biden's China First Foreign Policy Exposed

"And this episode is brought to you by our friends who can protect your data. An anonymous is your activity at express. Vpn dot com slash. Charlie e. x. p. r. e. s. s. vpn dot com slash. Charlie protect yourself against big tech big brother. Hey everybody what is going on in myanmar which is also known as burma. What's going on in russia. That and i also take your questions that you have. E mailed me freedom at charlie kirk dot com in this extended episode of the charlie kirk show. And do this. Thanks to all of you. That support us monthly. And even on a one time basis at charlie kirk dot com slash support. If this podcast has blessed you in any way would need a lot if you get behind us. Charlie kirk dot com slash support chip in. However you can to our program and our podcast at charlie kirk dot com slash support to give us the backing so we can hire more copy editors so we hire more video editors. Our research team has what they needed. Charlie kirk dot com slash support. We are growing unbelievably at turning point. Usa and if you want to be part of the movement go teepee usa dot com e. Mail us your questions. Freedom at charlie kirk dot com. We go around the world burma russia. I take your questions. Buckle up everybody here. We go what you've done is incredible here. Maybe charlie kirk is on the college campus. We are lucky to have charlie. Charlie cuts running the white house. I wanna thank joe. He's an incredible guy his spirit his love of this country's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organisations ever created turning usa. You will not embrace the idea that have destroyed. Countries destroyed lives and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country. That's why we are here. Hey everybody welcome. Email us your questions as always freedom at charlie kirk dot com. Okay i want to get to a story here. That actually might be one of the first foreign policy challenges of the biden administration. There is a country called burma while it's actually called myanmar. It's a country about fifty. Four million people It is positioned between thailand. It is near china. bangladesh That region of the world in southeast asia. It is not a country that usually makes headlines it is a primarily jungle country Meaning that it's just kind like the amazon It's a very poor country. A relative to most of the west and a very decent people from everything that I've heard from people that visited it's predominantly buddhist country. And so there in the news now in this directly affects china and at the fact that affects joe biden as well This country again just to give you an idea of how poor this country is. The gdp of burma is sixty. Six billion dollars elon. Musk is three times wealthier than the entire. Gdp of burma zuckerberg contentious burma the whole country. And all of its people with fifty four million people inside so in burma. There was a rising controversy around the last election. Myanmar which is the technical term but most people burma started a about a decade long experiment in conditional democracy And this is from a new york times piece. That i think does a pretty good job of explaining it Someone was in charge. Her name was miss own son. Sukey i think that's the right way to say it. I mean no offense if mispronounce that She was in charge with the military. Didn't like that. And so the military launched a coup like a legitimate coup. Okay not of jv. Actors from the backwoods of north carolina dressing like mash with zip ties along viking shaman guy taking southeast when you walk in the senate chamber like no actually a coup with tanks and military members and a legitimate coup to take back the country and that's exactly what ended up happening now to add some levity this situation though this woman who is running some form of a pilates class outside parliament bizarrely with an by the way i thought. This video is a parody But she just decided to run a livestream pilates class with a mask on outside parliament. Where she just happened to. This is in myanmar. Start her class. While the coup was happening she caught it all on tape and enjoy the music. I'll do my best job in narrating play tape. Here's this woman. Just burning some calories out. What do you got there. It's a coup like an actual coup. She is. She has no idea what is happening behind her. Here is just dancing and up. There's an armored humvee and it's not polite. he's what it's a dance routine. Whatever and so she just continues to go on. We could play. this video. Goes for about two and a half minutes when all the calvary comes in and they just take back the country zimba. Is that what it is. Andrew had no. He's ended that sort of thing. Right zuma yeah okay. It's zimba so she was doing zimba routine outside of the mehan market. What is the capital myanmar. I don't that may be with me dowell or something like that anyway and Largest city is young so she was doing a dance routine out there. We actually see the coup happen in real time. She might say we'll try. What's the significance of this third world. I don't care about it. Well look first of all. I do like to do some international news and just kind of do around the world because i think that is very interesting to see how different governing styles philosophies and ideas all kind of intersect and all that kind of comes back to america but no this actually really significant because the bombs away coalition which is the loose cheney types and joe biden which. They've never found a war that they don't they won't support. They are now going to be tested so the way donald trump would handle this very simple and very clear. Where it's if it's not in america's best interest to get involved or get engaged. We're not gonna do it. We're not going to start another war. We're not going to send american military members into another engagement halfway around the world and country that literally people never heard of now. Mind you we have said many times on this. Show somewhat sarcastically and somewhat light-heartedly. That joe biden is going to go search around. The world for country never heard of to go invade justifies power. I did not have my bingo card. I had maybe like yemen oman. Lebanon morocco myanmar is a little bit out of the area. But here's what's really interesting though. Is that that whole area from laos to thailand vietnam. America has not been seriously involved in a military conflict. There sent the vietnam war. That america has not been involved in a serious military conflict in that part of the world in quite some time and so the biden administration has formally determine that the military takeover myanmar constitute a coup the top designation that requires the us to cut its foreign assistance to the country. But that's not enough. It's actually more than that. Myanmar has a very close proximity to china and so myanmar which is a country on the sixty six billion dollar gdp The military was very upset. That own son sukey. The woman that was running the country was too close to the chinese communist party and so the military was taking over because they thought that own song so key was growing too close for she jinping ping ping from china had already built two pipelines through myanmar and so basically the military is rising up and saying we are not going to become a proxy state of the chinese communist party and has big plans for a major port and rail line. China does right through. Myanmar china going to the west does not have direct access. I believe geographically to the indian ocean They need other countries to be able to have direct access to the indian ocean. China of course does have plenty of ports of entry around the east to the pacific ocean but to get to the west to the bay of bengal or to the indian ocean they have to go through myanmar burma which are the current woman that was running. The country was more than happy to do that. biden said quote warned in a statement days prior quote. The united states remove sanctions on burma over the past decade based on progress towards democracy. Already playing wargames the reversal that progress will necessitate immediate reversal review of our sanctions laws and authorities followed by an appropriate action. The state department official did not offer a time line for potential sanctions. Officials told cnn on monday that the administration could roll out as soon as this week but a decision to pull the trigger would be likely impacted by a desire to move alongside allies congressional aides clean. This is cnn that we're reading from And i know you might say was cnn. I will say one thing about cnn. They have a. They have a more sophisticated international network of reporters than almost anyone except reuters cnn actually. I know this might surprise you. But cnn domestically a lot different than seeing an internationally cnn international actually just generally reports facts. They're still left wing. And they're all this. They're not as bad as they are domestically there in some ways to different companies. Jeff zucker does not run. Cnn international so just. Forgive me for reading cnn. Actually when you talk about international news they typically get things more right than nut and same with reuters when it goes international and now look some one theory. Is that the chinese. Coronavirus lockdown is getting so much pushback over the world so now the great reset interests are looking out to start another war to distract you from what might be happening. Domestically and so joe biden has a decision to make right now. What is joe biden's foreign policy. Well joe biden came out and said quote that iran is now just weeks away from a nuclear weapon. We get the information there. So now the iran the evil people of iran that donald trump rightfully held accountable that ever firing a tomahawk missile or endangering united states. Military member is now close to a nuclear bomb which evidently will mean america's going to get involved in another war fighting over second and death but myanmar's area interesting because myanmar now has proximity to america's greatest enemy china and also hunter biden's employer and so the question is whether or not joe biden will stand up to the chief Bank that allegedly funds the entire biden family crime enterprise. We are now dealing very very close to home to joe biden. And we'll joe biden. Stand up to g g ping well. He's already signaling. He doesn't like this military takeover now for the record. I'm not a big fan of military takeovers. Probably doesn't have a good track record. However the reasoning behind it is to stand up the china and that nuance is very very important. We all know. Conservatives are getting kicked off social media so why exactly are we choosing to give all these big tech companies all of our personal data from location your search history and more. Now's the time to take a stand. Protect your personal data from big tech big brother and the masters of the universe with vpn. I trust for my protection express. Vpn you see every device whether on your phone laptop tv has unique string of numbers. It's called an ip address when you search for stuff watch videos or even click a link. Big tech companies can use that ip address to track all your activity and tie it back to you. When i use express vpn. Mike connection gets rerouted through their secure encrypted servers so these companies cannot see my ip address. At all my internet activity becomes anonymous and my network data is encrypted and the best part is you don't need to be tech savvy at all to use express. Vpn just download the app on your phone or computer tap one button and you're protected. Protect your internet activity with. Vpn us every day. Visit express vpn dot com slash charlie to get three extra months on a one year package. That's e. x. p. r. e. s. vpn dot com slash charlie to get three months extra free express. Vpn dot com slash. Charlie us the vpn. that i trust expressed. Vpn dot com slash. Charlie as we are kind of doing a the world segment the the latest out of russia. Alexi the dissident gas from russia alexi has just been. Has he been sentenced to two and a half years today. Even have a trial that goes. That's that's russian justice for you right. Trial jail that simple. So i actually encourage everyone to check this out even even in short form. I watched the entire documentary that he produced and it was actually really really well done. It's a hard. It's a hard watch to be honest with you because the whole thing is in russian with english subtitles and they're talking really fast and so he just got sentenced to a couple of years in jail and so do we have the cut of vladimir putin's so one of the things that he he he he got poisoned probably by the russian government and then he returned home to russia and with it when he returned home to russia. He had this extensive documentary. All about how Vladimir putin Through a series of bribes had built this insane mansion like out of control mansion right on the black sea. And it's pretty extraordinary when you actually go through it and it. The documenta goes in great detail of how the russian people have been suffering and struggling and how vladimir putin who first became head of the diplomatic affairs office in saint petersburg Use that as a way to enrich himself get used to all the oligarchs and how they do business and then through a series of bribes build this absolutely extraordinary place that's basically valued at one billion dollars right on the black sea where there's a no fly zone overhead where their secret entrances and tunnels and this might seem like not a big deal. But what's really brewing in. Russia is a people's reaction to a lot of thug tactics of latimer putin. And let me be very clear. I do not think that. Russia is america's greatest geopolitical threat. I think americans especially american democrats obsession with russia is really strange considering the threat that china poses however just to call balls and strikes. There's no love lost for the russian ambitions Vladimir putin is a disciple of lenin mystic marxism at heart and look. Russia has an aging population. They are very dependent on the petrodollar and a lot of the sort of measures that russia puts forward is against a lot of western norms. That we would appreciate freedom of speech. Freedom of press freedom of dialogue and with that vladimir putin builds this extraordinary palace. I mean i'm talking about a billion dollar palace that you'll have to see to believe so we'll get the clips on that but now navajo novel. Navalny navan me. I think that's right navalny. That's one nevada harry. Go nova only has been sentenced to three and a half years in jail. Where unfortunately he's probably gonna get very abused in hurt now. What he is doing though is he is getting a lot of russian. People mobilized against the putin power structure that has dominated russia which is stalinistic type thug. Tactics that has really spread all throughout the country and has exploited a lot of different people and so people say well charlie. What should america's approach to russia be. I do not think the endless saber-rattling is necessary. I don't i think we should call them out when they put you know activists like navalny in prison for three and a half years for what exactly. He's the one that got poisoned a. He shouldn't be going to jail for three and a half years. That's insane but also this kind of pathological obsession that so many democrats and the bombs away committee of the republican party. That's what we call them. The bombs away committee they. They've never found a conflict they don't want all of a sudden send tomahawk missile towards that very well could be a strategic partner against china and russia. I don't think we're going to become our ally. But i don't think that it is helpful for the well being of our country or geopolitical interests to turn them into an unnecessary adversary where russia and china have been and a lot of different ways forming a partnership together against the best interest of our country. And a lot of. But we want to achieve. Are you guys sick of all the cancel culture. Stand with one of the fighters. Mike lindell right now. I wanna talk to you about how my pillow has changed so many people's lives. I know people that use my pillow made in america by the way. And they say they're sleeping better there a better person and it's just a game changer. For a limited time mike is offering his premium my pillows for his lowest price. Ever you can get a queen sized premium mypillow for twenty nine ninety eight regular sixty nine nine eight. And that's forty dollars savings kings five dollars more not only. Are you getting the lowest price. Ever twenty ninety eight for a queen size premium but mike is extending a sixty day. Money back guarantee to march first two thousand twenty one so right now support. The good sports people are trying to cancel. Go to mypillow dot com and click on the radio listener square and use the promo code kirk. You will also get deep discounts on my pillow products including the giza dream. Bedsheets the my pillow mattress topper and my pillow towel sets or call eight hundred eight seven six zero two two seven and use promo code. Kirk support mike lindell. He's a good american. He's fighting hard to my pillow. Dot com promo code kirk. I do want to give you some good news though. And i wanna give credit where credit is due. Pink hats woman has been identified. That's right pink. Cat lady has been identified. It is a woman by the name. Of rachel powell. She was the one who gave instructions and none other than on farrow Who discovered gotta admit that guy has a lot of talent And forest green and ronan farrow and was able to figure this out and identify her. Rachel powell Was the woman that was shouting instructions. She gave a long interview She claims she was not part of the plot organized. Whatever i have no military background. I'm a mom with kids. that's it. i work and garden and raise chickens and sell cheese at a farmer's market. She said that she was adamant that she was not going to wear a mask. And she was finally identified as rachel powell My guess is that she will be getting a visit from law enforcement very very soon However i don't know if i believe her she was saying in all the footage that we have played here and by the way. If you type in pink cat lady to yahoo search engine it comes up pink cat lady. Charlie kirk show. We focused more on the pink cat lady. I think then almost any other program for good reason Because she was the one that was saying. If you want to take this building. i've been here before. Go through this point of entry. And i can tell you right now that there's more to the story than she might be leading on all right. Let's get to some other tape here. let's get to Some news of the day so we have a lot of rumblings about impeachment Breaking today president trump has officially submitted his legal briefs. They were due today and as expected he is taking exception with the entire idea. I'll they duly elected president. Who is a private citizen now. being impeached as a private citizen. He also made the argument that his remarks are protected under the first amendment and he is correct a. Let's go to my friend. Ken starr cut sixteen. The text of the constitution to me is absolutely clear that judgment in cases of impeachment runs to what removal and then possible disqualification and so a former officer by definition can't be removed. That's the text. Ken starr of course ran the special counsel's office In the whitewater investigation and brought impeachment proceedings to the house successfully and it was acquitted in the senate against president clinton. Let's go to cut seventeen. The senate is utterly without jurisdiction to try donald trump. And if they proceed to do so they will. I believe be running afoul at least potentially of the constitutions specific express prohibition against a bill attender simply put a belva tailender. Her is the legislative branch imposing a punishment on a prior citizen. And that's what disqualification would be all about. And so in addition to that ken starr continued to say that the senate that anyone who brings up those who want to impeach president trump also might have to entertain that of hillary and obama. That is not how it works. And ken starr is basically saying. This impeachment is unconstitutional constitutional and dead on arrival. Let's play please play. Cut eighteen before you do though. Ken starr is joining our podcast on monday. On the charlie. Kirk show exclusively so makes you check out the charlie kirk show podcast which will be the week of impeachment tape the proponents of the eternal impeachment process. Which i've seen someone say well. Let's now have an impeachment of secretary of state. Hillary clinton used me. She's no longer the secretary of state i've seen. It suggested that we now have a trial of president obama. Excuse me he's not. The president added states ditto for donald trump and so the entire impeachment should not happen at all. But let's just get into the merits of it. Let's show how weak their argument actually is so we have played tape of the wall street journal saying that there were people that were breaking the line of the police. While president trump was still speaking. They have footage of that. But also let's go to cnn's own clips I was watching cnn. I was just flipping the channels this weekend. And they have this special. Called quote trump insurrection. However it's very interesting when you go through. Cnn's own words. They actually make the point that we made early on that came under massive mockery. When i said not everyone that was there was an insurrectionist and people said how dare you say something like that. Why is it. there's lots of different groups of people that i'm not trying to be. That went into the capital. Okay i'm talking to the people that were around there. But cnn said the exact same thing in their own special cut nineteen. When i got to the capital armani you could tell that there were different factions energies within the crowd alexander mark. Is there right in the middle of all of this. There's some people who just wanted to be there and wave flags there were other people who are much more aggressive and those were the people who who are really at the front okay. Let me just let me be very clear what he admitted right there is the nuance that i think everyone has been looking for so say. Actually i want to thank c. n. for airing. It was twenty three seconds of refreshing honesty and truth that there different factions there some people. What did he say. There are just some people that wanted to wear flags and their singing songs. Okay and then. There are some people up at the front. That were much more aggressive. Got it thank you for that nuance because the people that are the front that were assaulting police officers and storming the building and smashing windows and saying if we wanna take this building like the pink cat woman on the microphone defense whatsoever of those people at all but then he says himself there are some people that are that just kind of wanted to wear flags now under. Cnn's own rules of engagement is their own senior. War correspondent justifying what he's making a factual point. Cnn correspondent. I want to play this again. It's such an important tape because he's admitting that there were there is different loved. The there were different factions and groups of people. There are some people that came to the capital because the president told them that he was going to the capital and they go to the capital and they just sing songs and way flags. That's his own reporting. Play this again. And listen carefully to the cnn. War correspondent who says that there is a smaller group of people who are the aggressive people and regardless of who those people were. We've gone through that. Some of those people were not registered to vote. We met that summer. Blm incorporated people. Some of them were legitimate trump supporters. Some of them were instigators. Some of them were pathological anti-government types. Some of them were militia. The best way to describe it a hot mess. That's the best way to describe it. Not saying that every single person was a trump supporter or but every single trump support participated or approved in it which is not true at all whatsoever. Play tape when i got to the capital where you could tell that there were different factions energies within the crowd. Alexander word is there right in the middle of all of this some people who just wanted to be there and waved flags there were other people who are much more aggressive and those people who who are really at the front in some ways it was a mosaic of different interests and competing motifs and it was a mess. That's the best way to explain it. As we have walked through on this program there is more and more evidence. According to the washington post and their own reporting that there was premeditation before what happened at the capitol people that were planning pipebombs the night before people that came there with the intent that already been charged with conspiracy if none of that existed and every single person that penetrated the capital. That was at the ellipse. Which is we already know is not true. And then went in their their argument would have more validity instead. It is incredibly weak argument. Their argument for impeachment of a private citizen is as follows that a president gave a speech two miles away and that based solely on his words they walked thirty five minutes and then committed a criminal. Act that he never endorsed never told the happen and never support it. That is that is such unbelievable balderdash. If i may use an appropriate word for radio. What really happened is that yes. Some people went from the ellipse. Not everyone to the capital. Even smaller group of people of that group decided to go join some of the militants. The militia types the agitators the blm people the non registered to vote people. Just people that were there looking for a fight a mess to then go do whatever it is that they ended up doing and some people that were trump supporters participated in. But just to say that that were the only groups of people that participated in. It is not true. It's not correct and there is more and more evidence coming out with more arrests that there were people that participated in this. That's we're agitators. Said certain words and phrases that got people worked up. They came with walkie-talkies communicating with each other. They weren't just there waving a flag and they said you know what we want go. There were a couple of people that were like that but that is not the totality of the story at all and cnn's oh nuance i think really important extremely important to say where he says himself that there were different energies even at the capitol itself let alone different energies. At the event that was two miles away at the ellipse. now why is that nuance important nuance facts. Data and evidence is all that keeps us from becoming a vengeful guilty until proven innocent mop. That's what our justice system is supposed to be based around. The impeachment process is a parallel of our justice system. our justice system inspired largely from william blackstone said quote. I would rather have ten guilty. Men go free than one innocent suffer. That is not the way the democrats are thinking right now. They say we want power will make you all suffer. A great question from jill. She's thank you for being a trustworthy source for conservative americans. Your program answers a ton of questions. I have in a daily basis awesome. I listened to every podcast also recruited my college kids. That listen to you as well. Thank you. You're strong and positive light my question. It has to do with what we can do. Make a difference. This is a really good question. And i wanna make sure i clarify it. I'm set to become the next chamber of commerce president in our small community in oklahoma. However i heard you make negative are cast remarks about the way the chamber operates. I'm new to the chamber. Seen i want to make sure. I can do the kinds of things i help my community. Be a beacon of light and example the help those chambers on a larger scale you over to get involved in your community. And that's what i'm doing. Yes you are good for. You just want to do it right. Can you explain why the chamber such a negative reputation and what are your thoughts are being involved in the chamber. So i wanna make a distinction that i should probably make more. There's a difference between your local chamber of commerce and the chamber of commerce that runs our country National chain commerce national chamber of commerce is funded primarily through big corporate donors that want very specific crony corporate cut out deals. They are very much in the woke. Industrial complex They favor open borders. They favor amnesty They favor mass immigration however most local chamber of commerce are just fine. But my one piece of advice jill when you run. Your local chamber of commerce is represent the small business as much as if not more than you represent the big contributors to the local to the chamber of commerce in your local area for example. You might be getting money from big corporations for that Big chamber my piece of advice is do not allow those big companies to steer the policy. Always look out for the little guy. The local manufacturing shop the local coffee shop. And what i find those at the national chamber of commerce you can go to their own website. I encourage you to do this. Jill and thank you for your question if you go to the national chamber of commerce website. It's all it's filled with woke industrial complex. Nonsense it's filled with open borders immigration reform. All that stuff and it's the chamber of commerce plays a very big role in contributing and steering legislation for moderate republicans and moderate democrats. So thank you jill for that question but your local chamber can do a lot of good for the world. just don't take orders from the big chamber great question. Thank you for getting involved okay. let's go to another. Let's get to some sound here. That i don't think we got to Let's see we played. Ken starr Let's go to jen. Psaki cut twenty three. I think she said she'd circle back here. In fact we're living rent-free in jen psaki sakis head. Because she's all of a sudden worried about circling back and trump's twitter and all this play cut president to support the continuing of president trump on their sites. I think that's a decision made by twitter. We we've certainly spoke to. He's spoken to The need for social media platforms to continue to take steps to reduce hate speech. But we don't have more for you on it than that. And what's amazing is that there's no reporter that follows up immediately saying hold on a second so you think that the former president participated in hate speech. Do you think that other members of congress ever participated hate speech. No follow up at all whatsoever just a typical scripted. Answer in fact new evidence today. That said that the sake press corps is coming out and trying to prescrip- questions that's right pre script questions e mail us your questions. Everybody freedom at charlie. Kirk dot com. Hi charlie don't agree with you about this situation. Why do you believe all those news. The fake news always seems to blame russia putin for everything they want to putin is a dictator. They lie about him and do the same thing they do with trump. Choose chooses sentence. They don't like an explanation putin and trump actually so similar many things. I think he's a great president to maybe this is why they want to remove him your title to your opinion That's fine however. I will say that Vladimir putin from a very objective analysis. Happy to walk you. Through the facts. On a different podcast has engaged in plenty of nefarious activity own personal enrichment corruption and the suppression of freedom of speech and dialogue. While you're probably right that there is some misrepresentation of some things that he's done I do not put vladimir putin donald trump on a moral equivalency and. I would not recommend anyone do that anytime soon. Especially when it comes to the crackdown of freedom of speech. Freedom of religion freedom association and just the repeated pattern of persecution against alexei navalny. Not someone i would recommend associating with. But i'm open for any sort of Difference of opinion. So i would appreciate thank you for the question. It's very good if you email me. Any sort of data or facts. That shows that vladimir putin is actually Muhammad gandhi than. I will look at that. It's mahatma gandhi charlie. What can we do to take back the house police and she goes on to ask about the virginia state elections Scott pressler. who's a friend of mine. A good guy What can we learn from the left. Please learn from him look. We need to organize our local communities and change the way we do elections in our country. That's the way that we're going to take back the house and take back the senate. Let's go to this question here. And by the way youtube still has the disclaimer. on all of our videos at joe biden is the president of the united states. I don't think i've disputed that. Maybe they're just trying to rub it in our face. And our channel is just kind of flagged for that sort of continual disclaimer. But not exactly not exactly. You know concerned about that okay. Let's get to the next one here. University help Long question high school senior at lincoln way west in new lenox illinois. I know where that is and she. Okay this is a great question. Okay after all. That's happened this past year. you can probably imagine conservative. Parents like myself are very concerned about sending our daughter to a university. You should be her. Area of studies chemical engineering. That's a good thing you should go to college for. Chemical engineering go into. Universities is not really an option very informed. Okay i listen to your podcast as well as other places you speak. Such real life jacobs. You mentioned several times that you read them respond to emails. Some are reaching out to true. I do my husband. And i truly value your opinion and hoping you can have some guidance for us since you are from this lovely state. I don't know if she meant that sarcastically or not. You can understand our daughter's desire to go out of state and a school. She's narrowed down her choices to purdue florida state south florida university of south carolina clemson university tennessee university of alabama. Can you tell me if any the schools are concerning. If you're unable to give that information would there be a way you can say certain things what you'd look for to make this decision or possibly a video and their article you address this issue. We don't want to throw our daughter to the wolves. I looked up each school and the professor watchlist turning point. Usa and found that clemson and purdue have two professors on the list but a great informed. Email as a side note. We feel just a really good foundation. We've heard too many stories of other people who've other child had a good foundation as well bob and maria. I won't say your last name for privacy sake. Thank you okay. Let me walk through this first of all. Your daughter is going to college for the right. Reason chemical engineering is a good reason to go to college if you would've told me that she's still uncertain or that. She's trying to study social psychology social psychology or north african lesbian poetry. I'd say hold our horses. Maybe not college college might not be the best thing. As far as the list of colleges purdue florida state south florida univer south carolina clemson university tennessee universe alabama. There's some liberal instances at all the main point out there all kind of generally within the same. They're liberal all of them now. Produce have mitch daniels as president. I have not seen Very much meaningful conservative reform come because they are generally more conservative At least more pro free speech than not. But here's what i will say After your informed email find a place that is most financially Realistic for you the place. That has the best engineering school and just looking at the list. Purdue probably has the best engineering school out of the list. A purdue florida state south florida univer south carolina clemson university tennessee univers- alabama produce known for their engineering school. And then make sure that your daughter gets involved a turning point. Usa we do have a turning point usa chapter. I believe at purdue at least in the years past and we can check that But i would also just say this. Make sure you prep your daughter to know what she's going to encounter a social justice warrior. Blm inc nonsense. But you're already looking at this the right way. Here's why chemical engineering. Your daughter's gonna make a lot of money in her life and have a good career no matter what she chooses to do with a chemical engineering degree. We have an engineering deficit in this country and for parents watching and listening and you might be. You're not really sure. I would encourage you. If your son or daughter do does not know why they are going to college. They should take a pause before they go to college. They should save up some money. Go to community college. Take a gap year not go at all but chemical engineering is something that our country is in need of Earn a great wage. And that's the right reason to go to college. Not for life exploration but for career preparation. So i hope that somewhat helpful there's not i visited florida state. It's a little bit liberal. But it's not as bad south carolina. I've spoke at of spokane university of alabama. I've say out of the list. The most conservative probably university of alabama. But there are more liberals in tuscaloosa tuscaloosa geez. I can't pronounce anything today than you might think. That's what happens when you do five hours of talking every single day but maria. I'm going to thank you for that. And i'm going to send your daughter assigned book Because hopefully she'll never fall to the liberal side but you stay involved you stay on top of the curriculum. You prep her correctly. I know lincoln west high school. I knew i know new lennox really well. I of family members and friends from there in fact my grandmother was right from down the street there. So thank you for watching and listening. I hope this gets you in some way. In fact our team will respond to you and say hey did you catch the livestream Because charlie answered your questions. God bless you. Thank you for that question. Very helpful okay. Let's get to some more questions here. great question okay. I want to read this. Actually it's gonna take me about two seconds to pull up so the meantime if you guys want to support us. Please go to charlie kirk dot com slash support. Okay let's go to this right here. good got it. Okay perfect because it answers this question. Apologize for the delay. Okay steve. Hey charlie a. What is the latest on the maricopa election audit. That's why one of the pulled up. Jeremy duda witter who not know who that is He's a reporter. Aaron amir a liberal publication however a site it okay so Copa county forensic. Audit begins tuesday Members of the media are invited to this today so today there is a forensic audit happening From february second if every fourth With the potential to extend a friday auditors expect to work from approximately nine. am to five pm. But the hours may vary depending on the audit work performed every day. The second auditing firm will begin their work on february eighth This is happening at the maricopa elections department in downtown phoenix And the maricopa. County elections says serves more than two point. Five million registered voters. So there's two independent forensic audits happening a. We are staying on top of that and we'll see what happens. We'll see if it turns up anything or if there's anything that's found or irregularities the forensic audit is underway here in the state of arizona so we are keeping a close eye on that okay. Let's get to another question here so let me see one here. Here's one high. Charlie's apple removing your episodes. The episode with the nashes gone. No so when you guys subscribe to the charlie kirk show and i encourage you to do that now. Here's what ends up happening. If you listen to an episode it goes off of the episode And it goes into a either previously downloaded a previous. You listened to portion of the podcast app. It is a perfectly understandable concern. But it's nothing to Be too upset about or worried about. Here's one Hi charlie fifteen year old that goes to a public school right outside of seattle called mercer island. My school is now copying seattle public school district by having a black lives matter week. They showed us this video which is basically a bunch of leftist propaganda. Smart fifteen old from julia. Feel free to discuss this on your show. The fact that public schools in washington state are supporting encouraging their students to do the same yes. Many of our children in public schools across the country are being indoctrinated and they're being pummeled with critical race theory. Highly racist anti intellectual anti western nonsense. We've gone through critical race theory at great length but how it's anti individual anti science anti western but how they do not believe in dialogue they do not believe in discussion and how it all tabulated together will turn us into a more racist intolerant and divided society It should be opposed at all costs. And so it's very disappointing. When i get emails from fifteen year olds asking me to highlight the indoctrination while the parents in their local area the ones pushing it just drives me absolutely up a wall. Someone says a new follower and subscribe to the podcast gonna get mad doctrine book. Maybe sure you directions right you win. Because you subscribe to the charlie kirk. Show podcast okay. Here's a good question while we get that pulled up This is from meda. Meda is a good friend of mine. I know made made. If you're watching. God bless you she says. And then we're going to get to the t the tape of the ellen. Okay good morning charlie. I'm astounded the right is allowing the left to define who. We are astounded in the left's efforts to make another tea party movement not spring up. You're exactly right mehta. I was there with your own. It made us a good friend. They're taking the our word and applying to everything a sort of a. Let's see what will stick approach. This is working apparently so we must define who we are. We must state what we believe. We must not always react rather steer the ship stated purpose and let the truth of who we are as conservatives last night a meeting with some people. And we're gonna start a blog. That educates everyone about what conservatism is. Good for you. This will not be reactionary and will not be commenting on the insanity of current events rather stating who we are what we believe in why it's important so this will be the platform and she puts a name a more on this praying for you and your excellency everyday. God bless umeda. I'm gonna make sure our team reaches out to you. You're a great american and thank you for that. That's what we need. We need local activism local organizing new ideas. Because there's all this nonsense so this just got sent to us by a listener. Sent us this and by the way for the adults out there. Please take this as seriously as the fifteen year olds. Goodness gracious okay. This is a two and a half minute video. I've not seen it. So you guys are keep my mic on as we watch this police of what is black lives matter week. This public school outside of seattle play black lives matter. Week is nationally recognized week of action. Black lives matter. We games to empower students from all black identities and teach about black experiences beyond slavery. Black lives matter. Week originated in seattle. And we plan to continue here on mercer island. Twenty twenty was a big year for blacklivesmatter with all of the injustice. We witnessed due to police brutality. And discrimination because of that we food is especially important to educate ourselves and others on these. Every class will have a lesson discussion reading or other form of education relating to black lives matter week. For example science classes will have twenty to sixty minute lesson about black culture and how it relates to science into be learning about how contributions to various subjects their history so that we can learn to better appreciate and recognize voices in every aspect of our lives. The goals of black lives matter week are to acknowledge the challenges in inequities People educate ourselves on the black experience both historically and in the present a how people empathized with a racial experiences and obstacles people face due to their rates. Y'all i think it's going to be a great opportunity for seems to come away with interest towards the inherent connections between black culture history and perspectives with their curriculum. Andy hope that teachers leave it to learning how to incorporate bruce perspectives into their asan's regularly as well as how to address topics that they made insensitive. These lessons not only benefit. Black students can also be transformative for non black students. Particularly white students doing large parts to school in resume residential segregation white zunes often get a narrow view of blackness from their lived experiences. We are having this week to your and recognize how our country is still very unequal. That people are still trying are still receiving horrible treatment because of their race to learn about how we can help make the world a more equal place in having can teach others so that they can do the same to also recognize different people's cultures in Celebrate all her differences. Okay so i wanna make one thing clear. This is a public youtube video These these are kids okay. These are children that are being told to read a script. I am not going to none of my criticism. What they said is towards them okay. They're being used as puppets of the blm inc movement. I mean this sincerely. My heart goes out to these kids. Because they're being so misled. And i don't want any reaction to this video whatsoever to be reflected towards any of the kids in that video at all. This is about the teachers that are the ones that are putting this in front of them. Okay i just want to make that very very clear. Okay because that could get misinterpreted. Okay but what these teachers and what these parents at mercer island which by the way is like the beverly hills of seattle. If you don't if you don't know mercer island it is. It is rich upper middle class liberals what they are teaching. Their children is evil what they just taught there. The script that they were reading was that people are still being treated terribly because of their race kennon an adult who wrote that police come on our program and tell me one instance of where anyone is treated differently because of their race in this country because of public policy a law or a position doesn't exist we've been through this chapter and verse. It is not because of skin color. There are other choices that play into it. Great example is this. A child who was raised by a black mother and father is more likely to succeed through every single objective metric than a child who was raised by a single white mother. A stable family partnership is what should be focusing on. And for all of you. That just watched that video. That should horrify you for the country that is rising up. It's in our education system. That's where our tax dollars are being spent and because teachers did not get. I mean because parents did not get involved in school board sessions because we were asleep at the wheel for the last couple of decades. This stuff ended up happening. A lot of the old money from seattle is there and so it's just fitting. I mean it's literally an island. I don't know if you know mercer island. It's not just the name it's literally an island that is very secluded and these sort of ideas tend to spread for whatever reason. I'm not exactly sure. But i encourage everyone. That's watching this to take this very seriously. I'm not gonna play the video again. I feel very bad for these kids. I feel bad having to have any form of the criticism. Be near them. They're fifteen sixteen year old. They don't know any better. And they're being taught this with the real criticisms criticism these to be directed at is that the teachers and the parents that tolerated this nonsense. And i hope that that video right there for no other reason is instructive for all. The parents taxpayers. Watching what these kids are being taught and what they're internalizing. Here's a nice note. Good morning from austin texas. Charlie i wanted to thank you for your commitment to our great nation. Thank you. i've been listening to you a lot. More sense november third. We're all experiencing unprecedented time. I love your potus positive attitude. Thank you have a nice dame. Keep keep positive. You're welcome god. bless you. Thank you for the nice note. Hi charlie. do you have any recommendations for churches. Groups are individual who could use some financial assistance. Thank you yes. Calvary chapel san jose. I don't think they're exact name it's make it. They have like calvary chapel san jose. Mike clark yeah okay. It's calvary s j dot org. I'm a christian. I'm evangelical christian one of the most important things in my life you know. What saddens me and frustrates me. That most christians do not know about the struggle. The fights that pastor. Mike mcclure is engaged in right now in san jose pastor. Mike mcclure is a friend of mine. I've spoke at his church. He has a church in downtown san. Jose teaches the gospel chapter by chapter verse by verse. He has refused to close with all. These chinese corona virus lockdowns and measures staying open for easter staying open for pentecost not forsaking the gathering and the assembly of believers. He is now facing one point. Seven million dollars in fines from the local government. Most churches across the country are silence. In fact all the churches in the lok is local. Area are not supporting him. Why there is not a rallying. Cry behind pastor. Mike mcclure is a disgrace to american christianity to me. I'm not used to this. I'm used to a conservative movement. Were we hang with each other where we stand by each other's what i should say when someone gets attacked or criticized we rally to their defense pastor. Mike mcclure has had some good support him. It's calvary s. J dot org. They are sending the entire government after him and most christians are silent and complicit and for the pastors out. There that have not spoke in support of pastor. Mike mcclure you should resign. You guys know what's happening and you choose to be silent and you choose to be closed your cowards. All of you for the pastor that has stood by you like jack. Hibs and james kitson rob mccoy and european mature and david engelhardt and all the friends we've had on this podcast. God bless you and so yes. That is a church that i would support calorie. S j dot. Org mcclure is a phenomenal guy. And he is refusing to close everybody. He is refusing to close despite millions of dollars of fines being thrown at him. That is a hero. Not these megachurches that have remained closed indefinitely that have run to the hills and have decided to had decided not to fight. And so god bless you mike mcclure. We have your back. We're going to be covering the story nonstop. And for the tyrants and for the despot to san jose we are not gonna let off the story until you forgive and release and eliminate the entire one point seven million dollar fine to mike mcclure. They're trying to come after him personally. They're trying to come after his building. They're doing everything they possibly can just because he has opened his church by the way. Blm inc they can march right through san jose right through san francisco right through oakland. They're trying to make an example of this godly man. God bless mike mcclure and the fact that not every church in the country's fasting and praying and financially supporting mike mcclure goes to show how fragile and weak american christianity has become. There's plenty of pastors that have stood up but ninety nine percent are either not aware not interested or too cowardly to do something about it. God bless you mike. We have your back okay. Let's go to the next question here. The young people of tomorrow high charlie. I just watched the kids and the blm video. How do we win back. Our young people love you and your entire crew. Well that's what we're doing here at turning point. Usa every single day at teepee usa dot com slash. Get involved and look we have to get involved in school board races and the most important thing is this though. Take the education of your children very seriously. Teach them about the founders. Teach them about the philosophy that built our country. get them excited about american presidents. get them defensive of america see growing up. My parents were always not political but they were patriotic. Big difference they said no one should ever get away with insulting our great country. We have a beautiful history. You're lucky you live here. Understand appreciate it and defend it and the politics will come after them but the most important thing is a defense of the american experiment a defense of our journey in this constitutional republic and for any young person out there. I highly encourage you to get involved attorney point. Usa at teepee usa dot com slash. Get involved okay next question here. Actually i want to thank lean from kansas for supporting us on carlos from anaheim for supporting us and richard from coral springs florida for supporting us at charlie kirk dot com slash support And abraham from peoria he said this quote mr kirk. Thank you for the information you provide for us thank you. I want to encourage you to consider running for office. Please please consider that a rep. She has influenced that you and others can put to rest if you become a representatives. You'd have more knowledge and you could still have a platform. Amc cooking the other day online. Come on mr kirk. Police considered you have the support. Okay goes on. Look i appreciate that. But i'm not running for office anytime soon. I love what we do here on our program. I love what we do. Here on our podcast. I love what we do at turning point. Usa truly do But god bless you. I appreciate that. And i don't think that going to just another madison cawthorn and people like that can go do that for me. I'm meant to be here okay. Next question a hello charlie. I've been a subscriber sense before the fraudulent election Those are his words. Me and my wife received the flood of the male though in alabama do you know if are doing this from alabama. This notification is being sent to all alabama voters to comply with the national voter registration. Act passed by congress. The name and address on the back is a car that reflects your information I don't know if this is a legitimate letter. That seems very suspicious. I'm gonna look into that. Thank you Thank you for your question. Dusty into that that does not look legit. But i'd be very surprised by that. I don't think there's a national voter registration act. that has been passed. Okay here's one Hey charlie loved the show. I'm forty seven. My parents are lifelong democrat evangelicals. I grew up in a christian home. And i'm i'm closest to a libertarian conservative. You could say. But i'm always open to a different way of thinking. My parents referred to trump supporters as the cult. But i can't think of anyone more cultish than voting straight ticket whilst defending your party does which is what they do. How would you suggest. I combat that i'd love to get a copy of the maga- doctrine if i have to even pay for signed copy. Keep up the great work until isabel. I'm a long-term avalanche fan and wonder if she liked hockey. Okay well he's from dayton. Ohio and i will send you a copy of the book but look yes. So there's a lot there jared but i wouldn't Start getting into a conversation or what's called what's on obviously. It's not a goal. i will say this though. If they are. They are by the believing christians. I would encourage them to look at the sermons of rob mccoy jacobs of the teachings of david barton The democrat agenda is completely inconsistent with the teachings of the bible in the gospel of jesus. Christ socialism violates two out of the ten commandments Just the abortion issue is a non-starter. The democrat policy and immigration is open borders. Which is anti-biblical. The democrat policy on private property's against private property where the bible came up with the idea private property as we know it in the west free speech dialogue. All of that stuff comes from the teachings of the bible and maybe they say well we're democrat evangelicals because we want to help the poor if you want to help the poor the best way to help the poor is to empower them to help themselves that is to push back against public sector teacher. Unions had is the push back against the welfare state and that is to say we want people to get off of food stamps. Not on the food stamps. I'm guessing that's where a lot of their criticisms. We've done a lot of podcasts. On that but i would encourage you to check that out okay. here is from from sydney from iowa when we continuously emphasize on black being victims and caucasian being victimized or the oppressor it does create a racism issue. This constant focus on color born during the obama administration has it will continue to create more division teaching children pushing his white privilege. Nonsense terribly harmful. Thank you for being a spokesperson for common sense. Thank you. you're exactly right. Look when you divide people based on their immutable characteristics when divide people based on the content of their skin color not their character. You're going to create a generation of racists. The left is creating a generation of racist. That's what they're doing. They want people to judge based on skin color. And this nonsense. That blacks are being oppressed in. Our country is a pile of garbage. There's no data to support that. There is no evidence to support that. They're doing that to divide our country bitterly based on racial lines next question. Let's go here. Hi charlie i was listening to your populism explained episode on protection efforts at the capitol and have put this thesis fourth. I don't believe it was to show the american people. The government can protect us my thesis. This is a clear orchestrated and deliberate attack on our republic by the democrat party through denial voter integrity so that the government is not of by the people of the use of the judicial to vote in laws nor by the people and lastly through the practical suspension of the first amendment. So we the people can't petition the government for our grievances with the barrier that now blocks us from the lawmakers That's that's that might be true. But she says if we don't challenge them on these fronts. The republican shirley lost. I agree the most important fight right now. Is how we do elections and voter integrity. And i mean metaphorical fight not literal fight. I'm going to continue to take your questions here. Freedom at charlie. Kirk dot com. I wanna thank ryan for supporting us from iowa. Charlie kirk dot com slash support. Here's a question. Hi charlie love your show and everything you stand for. can you. Please give me some book recommendations that i can use the teach my daughter thank you. Morgan reese flooding. Well we talked about this on our podcast but if you are interested in getting quick bites of books to digest information one of our sponsors. I'm going to give them free. Shout out here is thinker dot. Org h. k. r. dot. Org if you go there thinker dot org slash. Charlie you get big books Long books that you can summarize in short bites But yeah i'll give you a couple of books right now. The book that built your world by the schaal mangle while the I would highly recommend ben. Shapiro's writes history is pretty good. I have to say Jona goldberg's even though jona is. He doesn't like me. But i recommend this book. It's really good liberal fascism But the best out of all of them from a christian point of view is the book that built your world if you wanna get people to believe that jesus christ the savior of the world and that the resurrection was real a struggles. Case for christ is phenomenal. So i'd recommend those books I don't have also There's a couple other books that i think that Are if you're if you're willing to kind of go into this direction and into a direction that's more kind of economics in nature a free to choose by milton and rose. Friedman is very very good. I'm again. I'm a market guy. I don't think that it's all necessarily applicable. But it's really good but if any of you are looking for a book about race and you say how do i debate. Blm inc. how. Do i fight back against all this s. j. w. nonsense thomas soul discrimination and disparities. It's terrific check it out. Let's get some more questions here. Freedom at charlie. Kirk dot com. Hi charlie. I'm going to call my library and ask them to get your book. I think your book should be in every library. Please encourage your listeners to have their library at your book. Thank you denise. that's kind of you. I mean that thank you. God bless you. Okay some more questions here. But i do want to thank valery for supporting us from california at charlie kirk dot com slash support millie. I'm a trump supporter. My entire family attacks me for supporting trump. i never make it my business to attack them. What's the best way to handle them. Thank you carmella ask questions. Don't get angry upset. Attacks are going to happen when you stand for truth. Just ask questions say do anything right. Did you like as middle east peace deal. Do you think it's interesting. That he oversaw the greatest economy in american history. Things like that are very very helpful. And that sort of response through asking informed questions. I think is the best way to handle them. Let me go to another question here. Freedom at charlie. Kirk dot com. This one is from a couple days ago. Okay hi charlie. I recently had the opportunity here at my church. Calvary chapel chino hills. A one of the things you talked about was not being apathetic and you kirch believers to focus on checking the boxes. I'm committed to working on checking those three boxes. Daily good for you nicole. God bless you. How do i volunteer returning point usa. I will put you in touch with somebody and is turning point. Usa hiring yes and so you can go to teepee usa dot com. If you want to start a chapter get engaged get involved. Teepee usa dot com. I highly encourage you to check it out. I just sent your information to our team at turning point. Usa every single young person in the country should be starting turning point usa chapters right now. Every single day at t usa dot com most specifically usa dot com slash get involved. Here's a question. Hello charlie a fifteen year old boy from slovakia europe. I'm a huge fan of the united states especially states like texas too. I love the second amendment. And i'm also a huge fan of american muscle cars and they're huge v. eight engines. I decided to our president trump. After i heard that joe biden wants the band gas powered cars after twenty thirty five after the election. I started understand. What is this. Ultra about and how evil the democrats are i. Watch your show after with a six. And i began watching ever since i really like your so My question is why isabel no longer. Doing the shows of the she will be. We have a rotation. And i will tell her that peter from slovakia wants her back. But god bless you peter. We love you man you. We appreciate you watching. I'm charlie join your livestream when you were talking about borders and private property being biblical wanted to ask if you any specific references are verses from the bible discussing this. I've a few friend who believe is a biblical borders and it's a hard time for me to explain. Why does thanks for all you do. Great question here's my best. Answer the entire book of nehemiah. The entire book of nehemiah is about literally rebuilding the walls of israel but juliana i'm going to Reference even more specific scripture. There is the entire idea of a sovereign nation came from the bible. What is israel a place that is not the entire world but a specific it has certain borders and barriers But thank you. Juliana ford this to our pastoral team that we have to get the exact references but the book in nehemiah is really really hard to push back against. It's literally about building the walls. Okay hi charlie. I'm fifteen years old from columbus junction. Iowa go to small church with never shut its doors awesome. I'm reaching out sunday. I'm reaching sunday school to People that are five times ages week. Giving me words advice and i'm reaching sunday school to people i'm guessing you're asking how to reach out to them look When you're the youngest person in the room don't do the most talking to a lot of listening and ask a lot of questions you'll learn a lot In fact there. I think she's trying to say teaching. Oh she's teaching sunday school. I'm sorry it said reaching sunday school but catch connor. that's why content. That's why we pay the big bucks connors. A machine a new studio setup so i can't see anything i'm flying blind here but yes so if you're teaching teach straight from the bible verse by verse chapter by chapter and also be unafraid. Since your fifteen year old teaching to go. Find other sermons that other people have taught and make sure turpin the text correctly. Don't try to make up something by the way you don't have to say that you found anything new. That's okay the the word of god speaks itself. The more you read the bible the more it reads you. It's the only book the more you read it. The more it reads you. And james one five pray for wisdom the more you pray for wisdom god will give it generously okay. Here's a question right here. Good afternoon charlie. Love watching your program. I'd like to get your thoughts on something. There are many companies donating to supporting organizations. I agree with is it wise to boycott these companies. Or would it be just too inconvenient for me. There are many companies support far left wing ideologies and agendas. Don't know how to handle this from a moral perspective. Thank you for your time hudson. Yes you should not support businesses when you can. That are against your opinion. I know i'm going to get five hundred emails. Charlie epstein you with starbucks cups. You're right every so often. We break our own rules and we go to starbucks but we shouldn't. I admit i admit that we should have But we do go to in and out which is owned by christians but yes wherever possible. You should try to vote your values shop your values wherever possible. Hudson great question. I want to encourage everyone watching right now. Please go to your apple podcasts. Spotify spotify type. And charlie kirk show hit subscribe. Let's go right here to. I'm a junior in high school every sunday a bill. I'm kids in my community gathering protest. They're all white upper middle class. Kids extremely obnoxious. They ridiculous signs that say things like god is trans black queer. Obviously people have freedom of speech and freedom of protest. And i respect that. But how do i respectfully directly fight back against these ideologues thanks I don't know if this is a true question. Not because this came from potato. Dan so i don't know if this is a question or not that's a troll but on. That is such an outrageous thing. Some things are not worthy of confrontation Some things are worthy of laughing and moving on. That is not one of the things that i would focus too much on from seth. Hi charlie love your show. Have you ever done a study on white slavery. The subject has been suppressed for far too long if we have. Racism shoved down our throat. I feel it's only fair to set things right and fight back against the left's race agenda. No i have not done that. But if there's any evidence to show that. I'm not exactly sure if the question is but it sounds like it's a third rail topic and i'm not willing to engage in a third rail topic without evidence. Happy to go into the rail topic. When i know the topic but not exactly sure what you're asking therefore i will not answer it unless i am informed and i've done hours and hours and hours of research on it. I live in wyoming and california lip. California of jackson hole. I know jackson well. It's in teton county. Beautiful place awful governance just announced. It will be finding people for not wearing masks. Is there anything residents can do to fight this. It might be illegal and unconstitutional. So maybe filing a lawsuit might be the best thing for you But that's expensive and you have to open up the discovery and all this nonsense but look a mask agnostic. If you they work. Wear a mask. However i am completely against mask. Mandates forcing people to wear masks where mask at gunpoint forcing them via taxation. I'm completely and totally against. I believe it's immoral and it should be unconstitutional. Everybody please continue to email us. Your questions freedom. At charlie kirk dot com get involved a turning point. Usa a lot of. You're saying hey. How do i get this hat. Shop teepee usa dot com and. Thank you for supporting us at charlie. Kirk dot com slash support. It gives us the ability to keep doing what we're doing potato. Dan says he's not a troll. Love the show but thank you pitted potato dan. I appreciate that. Thank you guys so much. God bless you speak to you soon. Thanks so much for listening. Everybody involved with turning point. Usa right now at teepee usa dot com e. Mail us your questions. freedom. Charlie kirk dot com. And if you'd like to support us to charlie kirk dot com slash support. Thanks so much for listening. Everybody god bless.

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