20 Episode results for "Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center"
Dr. Rebecca Timlin-Scalera, The Cancer Couch Foundation
"These sporting life on E._S._P._N.. Radio and the E._S._p._N.. APP Here's Jeremy Shop Twenty fifteen our next guest Rebecca Tim Lynn scholar was diagnosed with metastatic static breast cancer. She was told at the time that she had perhaps three years to live a college soccer player Fairfield University in Connecticut and athlete all her life. She's written passionately humorously about her life. As a cancer patient attracting national national attention raising awareness and money is well through her foundation Rebecca. Thank you for joining us <hes>. It's great to have year in the show. Thank you so much for having a really appreciate it now. I'll concede Rebecca that the Sports Hook Book for our interview isn't necessarily very strong but we don't really care since you played at Fairfield you at the same time as my colleague. Andy tended the executive producer be sixty who who claims that he was a great college player Fairfield fields. I find it hard to believe what can you tell us. I'm GonNa take his word for. I was too busy playing myself so you know you really want soccer's not enough of a hook for your for your audience I that I got dragging rates to my ten year old fault. It's it's it's been awhile. Let me ask you Rebecca as a former college soccer player d. one soccer player what it means you to see the U._S.. Women were win the World Cup in France. Well I tell you my coach at fair. We were lucky enough to be built. wwl Can't you had one that World Cup herself one year and <hes> she was named old world best defender in nineteen eighty seven so she got her right off right hot off the press <hes> after winning the world company eighties and she was we were lucky enough to grab her fairfield. <hes> for the first year of Our D.. One program the Women's program then she went on to coach you mash but <hes> but yeah so it meant the world because you know I knew well obviously after stay on the World Cup then and I <hes> Christine Lilley in highschool so to see her after the game and everything she was part of the after ceremony and I actually new players on the team because my foundation had partnered with the New York flash and we all did a partnership at the Boston breakers at one point <hes> when I first started the foundation so some of those women were part of my foundation fundraising <hes> a couple of years ago all coming off the Olympics so it was pretty cool to see them. I mean they're unbelievable. They're just unbelievable unstoppable and you mentioned Christine Lilley. I believe from Wilton Connecticut <hes> which is next just next door to Fairfield yeah. I guess we played against each other and high school. Yeah pretty great player in a in a listener is from trumbull which is on the other side of Fairfield <hes> the goalkeeper. That's right so Connecticut's <hes> representing yes now today. If I were to trap for one team today I would not even be allowed to bring them water. I can assure you that. Talk about the time I was in the right time and I was so lucky to play and yeah that's how Andy and I know each other and it was great. It was just a wonderful experience and <hes> I brag about every chance I get to my son. WHO's a little soccer player now? So we're speaking with Rebecca Tim Lynn's Galera <hes> who's foundation <hes> to combat metastatic breast cancer the cancer couch foundation has raised more than two million dollars in last few years and you know I I've I've read some of the things that you've written the last few years Rebecca and they're moving and they're funny and you've inspired so many people with the way that you've chosen to live your life as a cancer patient and and fight the disease <hes> what is it been like for you to find yourself in a position to inspire people in to raise money and awareness well you know after <hes> my you know Austria Soccer Chris they went on to become a psychologist and actually what I ended up doing <hes> really after nine eleven because it was doing a lot of trouble work in the city then it just kind of found myself in the place and the time that that was needed. I worked a lot with trauma patients <hes> <hes> and a right up until my diagnosis and what I realized wherein I was diagnosed with state for cancer. I needed to take a page out of the lessons. I run from my patients that we're had gone through hideous traumas trauma I mean you name it and I had seen it and I've been on the other side of the couch listening to and when I had to draw on was there ever since I've watched <hes> in my patients all those years and I thought okay now it's my turn. I need to put my money where my mouth is and Dan you either buckle under this or you put your head up and and I think actually that's where I will send it being an athlete and having to stick it out even when you know you wanNA collapsed <hes> there's maybe something in that. I don't know if it's chicken if that's not drive me or being you know gave me that drive but either way you know it's kind of like digging deeper when you think your your tank is completely empty <hes> it never is it never is and I just figured out like that's a better way to live like with your head outs in your head down because you know we don't have much time we have left but it sure feels better to <hes> go around fighting it and you know with your head up rather than giving into it because because then got you already so I somehow found resilience and the reason that I even talk about being an athlete at all. Is that what I want people to understand is I was as healthy as I was a lifelong athlete. This disease does not discriminate so sometimes it's easy. When you see somebody you know they've lost a handful cancer and they don't look like your they don't look back that healthy? I'm just like everybody else and if this is he's GonNa Happen to me. Believe me it can happen to anyone and I don't say that the scare people but to engage people and to realize like if we don't all do something to further a cure for cancer because there's no cure right now and and the reason I started with the foundation was that I realized that people thought breast cancer was like the good cancer get they thought. Oh you guys are also all those pink ribbon money well. No Pink Ribbon. Money has not gone to stage four once metastasized. Is I almost have more in common with somebody what cancer and I do early stage breast cancer once cancer metastasis is outside of the original area doc what kills you and there's been very little research money. In the breast cancer we'll put towards it and that's why I want to make a difference and so my fundation only funds research for stage for metastatic breast cancer and one in eight women we'll get breast cancer in their lifetime and thirty percent of people with early stage breast cancer. We'll eventually metastasized. It'll be h for on one get breast cancer too and when men get it they often we'll get as already F- stage for because they haven't had the screening that women jail and a lot of people don't realize that get this to heat as well and one hundred percent of the donations to the cancer couch foundation benefit of research to metastatic breast cancer at Danafarber Cancer Institute in Boston. The and Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center in York were speaking with Rebecca Tim Lynn's Galera <hes> who's been such a strong important advocate for those combating the disease and for those who are trying to find cures <hes> you he wrote a column in The Washington Post that was widely read last year and it was about well it was about a chanel coat <hes> and it touched. It touched a lot of people <hes> could you can you tell us what would you were trying to stay <hes> writing about that coat yeah I mean I think that was sort of a symbol for like you know yeah. I didn't really have anywhere to wear that that week or that month or that year whatever but I worked the chemo you know let us go by the way most people think I'm a complete PREMADONNA. It was used that I bought found on a trip and I said I don't really have to that sort of a symbol for like you have a choice with how you with your life what you're going to do with it no matter what cards you've been dealt you know so that was kind of just a way to encourage people like doesn't you dress yourself and go to chemo whatever they want to but that's how you take your power back from a disease like this I in in for you day today. In and unfortunately you are dealing with so much uncertainty about your future. <hes> what keeps you going my kids. I have two kids and a husband so that's it. There's no option. There's no there's still question. That's it you know for me for me. It's different for everybody but that's it for me. Yeah it's <hes> where do you stand right now for BECO- <hes> so my trial and it's kick the can you know you you <hes> pray great guys that if when the stops working that there's another one out there and the one that I'm on wasn't even around <hes> a year and a half ago when my cancer metastasized so that's how new <hes> these drugs are and that's how much real time. We're talking about like we need. They need this money now and the people that I find that we put up three papers in the time we've been funding them. So I mean two hundred three hundred thousand dollars to allow it goes a long way. They can flush out the idea. Write a paper and then they go to big money but they need the money to flesh out ideas so when people think like they can't do anything my twenty five dollars do anything believe me at does because we get it to the right people your messages one of great positively in hopefulness <hes> have you seen spoken to people who have been moved by your message inspired by your message <hes> in in how does that make an impact on you. I have and you know <hes> <hes> you know recently looking to be on the today's show launching this <hes> campaign we have gone on reason for freezing M._b._c. on which was really modeled after the ice bucket challenge and we're asking people like eat something cold and and then donate and challenge fans and everything and we have a whole website for a reason for freezing A._B._C. Dot Org and it's great and when I was after today's show I heard from a lot of women who have lost their husbands to this disease because I mentioned on the today so that men get breast cancer too so like one person person reaching out to me like that and saying thank you so much for validating for letting people know about this because my husband's this disease and nobody really gets it and you know and then <hes> you know I heard other people women who are struggling with this diseasing. I was just sent notice a month ago and it's a horrible but I find it gives me hope and just a one person like that keeps me going because it's not easy obviously to to run a foundation where you're going through treatment and everything but those hearings some people like that that keeps me going doc inspires me actually when I get that kind of feedback and you know what I would say to people is that you know no matter what it is if if you've never diagnosis like this or whatever it is she going to in your life. It's the middle of something we don't know how it's going to end and that's a great sports analogy and that's something then I got from my sports days is that you know until the last minute you don't know how something is going to end until the absolute last minute of a game and we're in the middle of life where in the middle of you know trials tribulations and victories so keep going into last minute and <hes> actually <hes> you know. I think it's a good way to go through life is what's not a result over so I'm not GonNa get up giving him give it. You're all until the end. That's a great message. <hes> thank you for joining us. We're speaking with Rebecca Tim Lynn's Galera her foundation is the cancer couch foundation and as she just said there's a website now <hes> it's reason number four freezing F are easy. I N M Emma's in Mary Bees and boys season Charlie dot org or the cancer catch that time that's easy to cancer catch. Dot Com is my regular website. That's easy Rebecca. Thank you for joining us. I'm sorry you couldn't <hes> give us us a truer and more honest assessment of Andy Tendons career at Fairfield University. Your good friend wing found you were you weren't going to you weren't GonNa Despair Jim. I understand I appreciate that reluctance.
#45: Our Take AprilPart 1
"The. Welcome to healthcare rounds the podcast serving you the ins and outs of health policy and business topics as well as our take on the rapidly evolving healthcare delivery ecosystem, I'm your host, John Mircha CEO of Darwin research group and faculty associate at the WB Carey school of business and the college of health solutions at Arizona State University. In our first story. A new report by the New York Times. And propublica says leadership at Memorial Sloan Kettering cancer center, or miss K, quote repeatedly violated policies on financial conflicts of interest, resulting in an environment in which quote prophets appeared to take precedence over research and patient care. The times propublica investigation stemmed from an outside review of MS K by dibella and Plumpton a New York based law firm. Details of the review were presented last week at a staff meeting with MS K executives. Potential conflicts of interest were often ignored or discussed at hawk flouting, organizational standards. The report indicated in addition researchers sometimes worked on studies in which executives had an undisclosed financial interest in the outcomes, according to the time propublica Marc Goodman, co chair of the law firms commercial with again group said the conflicts of interest were not a result of willful misconduct. But instead stemmed from quote inadequate oversight and a lack of established protocols for examining whether employees and executives affiliations with corporations could result in biased results that favoured company's products. MS K has since revised its policies and procedures concerning conflicts of interest as well as the rules governing relationships in financial ties to corporations doctor Walid, Gilead director of the center of pharmaceutical policy in prescribing at the university of Pittsburgh said of the revised policies, quote, Memorial Sloan Kettering. Really does seem to be taking the seriously, and this document, I think shows it kudos to them. Here's our take MS case troubles started. With another times. Propublica investigation that led to the resignation of the cancer center's chief medical officer. Dr Jose basilica who was found to a failed to disclose millions in payments from drug and other healthcare companies in dozens of pure viewed medical journal articles, Dr Bazaga resigned in September in the sense step down from the boards of Bristol Myers, Squibb and Varian medical systems. He now heads astrazeneca's cancer unit as the executive vice president of research and development research institutions can partner with pharma, successfully if they have robust policies in place and adequate oversight to enforce them. But there's a revolving door between academic appointments in jobs in industry, which makes keeping track of potential conflicts all the more difficult. What's more? There's big money in cancer research, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Cancer is everywhere. And the money farm is investing is essential to bringing groundbreaking therapies to market. In a recent interview, one cancer center executive told us, quote, there's not enough NIH budget or NCI budget to do all of our research and more and more the drugs are being developed by the pharmaceutical companies, so the lines of great we need their investment, but we also have checks and balances in place, and quote, a recent report from evaluate pharma shows that oncology is a top therapeutic area in prescription drug sales. Registering a hundred four billion in sales in two thousand seventeen with two hundred and thirty three billion projected twenty twenty four that's a compounded annual growth rate of twelve point two percent visual capitalist reports that more drugs are used to treat cancer than any other disease or health condition, and that's why a long shot, and that's unlikely to change anytime soon as cancer drugs represent more than half. Farmers collective pipeline last week healthcare rounds feature Dr David. Hong deputy chair of the department of investigational cancer therapeutics at the university of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center, he also serves as a socio vice president of clinical research at the center and as clinical medical director of the clinical center for targeted therapy. He speaks to the necessary partnership between industry in institutions like UT, MD Anderson. Here's Dr Hong what I think of the other venues that are kind of trying to vet out this conflict. They may or may not realize this is is that this research. Probably would not be conducted. If it wasn't for pharma investing the money in order to try to get these drugs improved clinical trials, isn't incredibly expensive endeavor. And that's also very complicated reason as to why. But you know, the numbers ranged from phase ones from twenty to fifty million dollars phase one, and then you get into large phase randomized phase two can run up to one hundred million. In the doing international face three study can be up to three hundred million. There's debate as to how much this whole process cost. But if you look at the top struck institute, Joe democracy has been working in this area. For decades. And their data suggests that capitalized cost is the cost incurred to get one drug approved. Which is usually a ten percent only one drug out of ten that gets into the clinic approved that capitalized cost is probably three billion or more again one can debate as to why these drug contra so high, but without pharma, the United States government does not have that kind of cash to invest in research and getting new drugs out there. In our second story, Charlotte North Carolina based atrium health signed a memorandum of understanding with Winston Salem, North Carolina based Wake Forest university and Wake Forest Baptist health to create a transformative academic healthcare system. The organization said they have entered into a period of exclusive negotiations to agree on terms and intend to arrive at a final agreement later this year as part of the deal the partners plan to build a second campus in Charlotte. Eugene woods CEO of atrium health said quote phenomenal things can happen. When white minded partners committed to the same transformative vision come together, a new ways to better serve our patients in communities. Here's our take not so fast. We've seen the stance before in March twenty eighteen atrium called off a similar arrangement with UNC healthcare that it had been negotiating for months insiders, say the two systems couldn't come to terms about shared leader. Ship that atrium was dictating Goshi actions. Like the bully on the block and UNC wasn't having it others say it was the heat atrium was getting from state officials over concerns that the deal would result in higher prices for healthcare services. Remember the history here just weeks before telling you NC, two pound San Carolinas Healthcare System, abruptly announced that it was changing its name to atrium health. Then the next day a trim said it had signed a letter of intent to acquire making Georgia-based navigate health. We all correctly believed that the name change in Navistar acquisition was about expanding atriums reach not limiting itself to the Carolinas for expansion. In turns out, there's a missing component to woods vision having the legitimacy prestige and other important benefits of an academic medical center. The question is how will regulators react will they raise as many concerns as they did with the UNC merger. Stay tuned atrium has forty hospitals and more than twenty seven hundred physicians in several. Physician groups from technology standpoint. It's one of the most advanced systems in the nation. Really not kidding Harvard. Business school even did a teaching case about atriums technology rollout. Wake Forest Baptist. Another tech savvy. Institution would add another seven hospitals in eighteen hundred physicians. Both systems are vertically integrated with owned retail clinics surgery centers skilled nursing facilities medical imaging Dallas is home health and hospice care combine the two systems have nearly ten billion in annual net patient revenue. Here's what else you need to know AstraZeneca and Daiichi Sankyo announced a collaboration agreement between the two companies potentially were six point nine billion. Their goal is to accelerate and expand the development of an investigational antibody drug conjugate the targets E year to the drug is currently being developed as a treatment for multiple issue are to expressing cancers, including breast and gastric cancer and impatience with HR to low expression under the agreement. Astra Zeneca will pay Daiichi Sankyo one point three five billion up front and as much as five point five billion in regulatory in sales milestone payments. Meanwhile, Novartis entered into a definitive agreement to acquire IfM trae a subsidiary of Boston based biopharmaceutical firm IfM therapeutics IfM trae is developing novel L R P three and Tagore's for the treatment of inflammatory diseases such as Ethel sclerosis and inflammatory bowel disease Novartis will pay three. Hundred ten million up front and possibly another one point three billion. If designated milestones are reached the acquisition has been approved by EMS board of directors and shareholders, it's subject to customary closing conditions. Cigna Express Scripts will be launching a program to cap insulin costs for eligible patients at twenty five dollars for thirty days supply, the patient asserted program will be open to members in participating employer funded pharmacy plans managed by Express Scripts if they're monthly out of pocket costs for insulin exceed twenty five dollars. Government-sponsored plans are not eligible ally. Lily Novo Nordisk in Santa Fe will participate in the program, which is expected to be available to Express Scripts members before year end and to Cigna plan members in twenty twenty soaring, insulin prices have recently, come under increased government scrutiny. The department of Justice charged twenty four durable medical equipment and telemedicine executives with fraud, alleging their participation in a scheme to defraud Medicare of one. Point two billion in false payments. One of the largest healthcare front schemes ever involving DM. Ian, telemedicine companies according to federal prosecutors telemarketers targeted elderly and disabled people calling offering free or low cost back shoulder, wrist and knee braces that were medically unnecessary. The DOJ said patients were referred to tele-medicine companies where physicians would prescribe dni, quote without any patient interaction or with only a brief telephone conversation with patients they had never met her seen. Proceeds of the scheme were allegedly laundered through international shell corporations and used to buy luxury real estate exotic automobiles and yachts, hundreds of thousands of elderly and disabled patients were affected by the scheme. Pharmacy. Benefit manager executives were grilled by the Senate finance committee, Tuesday answering questions about their role in escalating drug prices. And whether they would support a law banning spread pricing attendees included William Fleming, president of healthcare services at Humana. Dr Steve Miller chief clinical officer at Cigna, Derek rice, executive vice president CVS health. John prince CEO of Optima wrecks and Mike Cole. Our interim president and CEO of prime therapeutics as expected PM executives pointed the blame squarely at drug manufacturers who may labeled anticompetitive juggernauts drive prices higher to maximize profits. Senator Ron Wyden democrat from Oregon lambasted the panel for its use of spread pricing. We're helping customers are charged a higher price for prescription than pharmacies reimbursed. He said, quote, in my view, it's as clear a middleman rip off as you're going to find. Sanofi announced it is expanding its insulin's value savings program under a ninety nine dollars monthly subscription program. Patients with a valid prescription will have access to all Sanofi insulin's for up to ten boxes per, pens, and or ten milliliter vials per month, regardless of income level. The program is unavailable to Medicare Medicaid patients on another government healthcare program. Although Sanofi says it supports changing the rules to allow access for everyone of note. The announcement was made just hours before Sanofi executive Kathleen Trig Onnaing along with representatives from Yvonne lily Novo Nordisk appeared before the house committee on energy and commerce hearing on insulin pricing Medtronic and Blue Cross Blue shield. Minnesota signed value-based agreement for the device makers guardian connect continuous glucose monitoring system, a wearable monitoring device that connects with a mobile app, according to the agreement the percentage of time spent in a healthy glucose range is the key metric. To set the amount of value based payments that Medtronic will receive be CBS. Minnesota said the system will be available through the pharmacy benefit which may lower costs and improve convenience for patients. CVS is now offering same day delivery of eligible prescriptions. The company said the service is being provided in conjunction with shipped and his available at six thousand CVS pharmacy locations nationwide. Other items from CVS stores can be added to the delivery orders. There's a seven ninety nine delivery service fee for same day delivery, and a one to two day delivery service is available for fi four ninety nine. Duke University health system and Blue Cross Blue shield of North Carolina have formed a new nonprofit health insurance company called experience health, according to a press release experience health is filed an application with CMS offer Medicare Advantage plan in certain North Carolina counties in twenty twenty Mark Wagoner who is senior executive at Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Rhode Island is CEO of the new insurance company. Mount Sinai's Icahn school of medicine will cap medical student debt at seventy five thousand dollars for students who demonstrate financial need the decision follows NYU school of medicine's announcement last year to offer free tuition for medical students. Unlike the NYU program mount Sinai's, capped assistance program applies to living expenses as well as tuition, according to the association of American Medical colleges. The median debt for medical school graduates was nearly two hundred thousand dollars in two thousand eighteen the average four year costs for public school students is about two hundred and forty four thousand dollars for private school students. The cost is about three hundred twenty three thousand dollars. The Houston metro area is getting more primary care as Walgreens and village. MD? Have partnered to open five new state of the art adult primary care clinics with the first to open by the end of twenty nineteen. The clinics will be branded village medical at Walgreens and will offer comprehensive primary care services integrated tightly with pharmacists, nurses, and social workers. Chicago-based village MD has twenty five hundred physicians across eight markets. Likewise, Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Texas in collaboration with Columbia based semi us will open ten advanced primary care medical centers in Houston and Dallas the company said starting in twenty twenty the centers will offer primary care urgent care lab and diagnostic imaging services care coordination and wellness and disease management programs. One more thing we included the Medicare fraud piece because it was big news that received widespread media attention. But in researching the story, we found that the headlines by others were often misleading laying the blame on telemedicine examples. Here's one headline from bekker's what a one point two billion dollar fraud. Scheme means for Tele medicine or one from business insider, why one billion dollar Medicare fraud case could impede telemedicine growth and one more for med scape. DOJ breaks up one point two billion Medicare telemedicine fraud ring. Props to the one that got it right, which is modern healthcare. Here's their headline feds break up a one point two billion dollar Medicare orthopedic brace scam. We must emphasize that the telemedicine companies involved in the case appear to be nothing but fronts, not the kind of Telehealth organization that you've heard on this podcast. No, well known or establish Telehealth company was involved. This is the type of news. The console you the reputation of an industry, which we've seen from high profile home health, Medicare fraud cases, likewise, this is a case of a few bad actors that aren't Representative of the whole. It also provides us with another lesson. If you get your news by browsing the headlines, even from reputable sources, you may not be getting your fact straight. That's all for this week from all of us are when research group, thanks for listening. If you haven't yet done so please rate and review healthcare rounds. Wherever you listen to podcasts healthcare rounds is produced by Deanna Nicola JR. And engineered by Andrew Roja, the music by John Murcia, Darwin research group provides advanced market intelligence and in-depth customer insights to healthcare executives are strategic focus is on healthcare delivery systems and the global shift toward value based care to learn more about us go to Darwin research dot com or sending Email to insights at Darwin research dot com, or if you'd like to get right to it. Call us at eight eight eight four two three four six five c next around.
NPR News: 08-23-2019 3PM ET
"This message comes from n._p._r. Sponsor xfinity some things are slow like a snail races. Other things are fast like xfinity x. by get get fast speeds even when everyone is online working to make wifi simple easy awesome more at xfinity dot com restrictions apply live from n._p._r. News in washington. I'm louise schiavone the u._s. Supreme court has disclosed that justice ruth bader ginsburg has just completed three weeks of radiation treatments at memorial sloan kettering cancer center in new york. The treatment was initiated after localized cancerous tumor was discovered on ginsberg's ginsberg's pancreas. The eighty five year old ginsburg has said she plans to remain on the court for at least five more years the democratic field of presidential hopefuls continues and used to shrink today with the exit of massachusetts congressman seth moulton as n._p._r.'s shannon von tells us molten hopes to return to congress after the next cycle moulton also says he is relaunching his political action committee serve america which pushes for the election of democrats with service backgrounds the marine corps veteran never gained momentum momentum for his campaign and did not appear in the democratic presidential debates he trailed other candidates by millions of dollars donations molten campaigned on a theme of of strengthening national defense and has warned in interviews that the democratic party is leaning too far to the left and that could make it more difficult to defeat president trump. Molton joined the presidential race late in april when the democratic field already crowded with eighteen candidates shannon van sant n._p._r. News president trump leaves this evening for france and the annual g seven meeting and for him trade is topic a n._p._r.'s asia roscoe reports president president trump is expected to push leaders on trae which once again li detentions at the summit. A trump feels that foreign markets should be more open to u._s. Businesses one issue issue he plans to bring up is francis digital services tax which the administration says unfairly targets u._s. tech companies. He's also president germany on its nato obligations breath. N._p._r.'s aisha roscoe the president of m._i._t. The massachusetts institute of technology says the school was wrong to accept support from financiera nazi-era and convicted sex offender jeffrey epstein from member station w. g._b._h. In boston kirk canepa has more in a statement to the campus community president. President rafael rife says over the past twenty years m._i._t. Received about eight hundred thousand dollars from foundations controlled by epstein right does not explain how that money was spent but after some staffers down to quit he says m._i._t. Will make a donation equal to denote received to a charity that benefits. It's epstein victims or other victims of sexual abuse. Rife says taking epsteins money elevated his reputation and served to distract from his horrifying acts right says mitt leaders are also reviewing its development process and will advise him on ways to improve them for n._p._r. News i'm curt therapist. Europe has a in boston. Global anxiety about trade has roiled international markets this hour. The dow is down. Five hundred forty-seven this is n._p._r. A special prosecutor will now look into wise state prosecutors in chicago dropped all charges against former empire actor jesse small small let n._p._r.'s shell corley reports that small ad had claimed that he was attacked but authorities have ruled it a hoax jussie small at originally faced sixteen counts of disorderly conduct after authorities said he staged an attack against himself or publicity and then lied about it to authorities smollet who is black and gay told a police the two masked men yelling racist and homophobic slurs attacked him last january later the cook county state's attorney's office dropped charges against the actor after small had agreed to forfeit his ten thousand dollar bond and do community service that decision angered city officials and the police now special prosecutor will look into the matter it it could mean new charges against small at who is maintained throughout that the january attack was real cheryl corley n._p._r. News chicago walmart and tesla are looking for a way to resolve a standoff after the giant retailer sued the electric car companies engine the energy division for installing rooftop solar alert panels that caught fire in the lawsuit filed earlier this week walmart said the tesla installed solar panels that went up in flames on seven of its store rooftops rooftops between two thousand twelve and two thousand eighteen causing millions in damage walmart's complaint states that upon inspection several of the panels were broken wires were are hanging out the two companies say they're working toward reactivating the solar panels on louise schiavone n._p._r. News washington.
Fun Talk: My Asshole Cat Jumped In
"Welcome to fun talk. My name is. And I'm Brian Kober Kennedy who's fixing his microphone awhile. Why is it moved? No, one is touched it since you last used it as I've described to so many people it is just me here and my robot vacuum, so unless my robot vacuum wasn't here about that name. What's that? What doesn't you're right. Becky MAB name. It did what did I call it? Yeah. You had a name for it. How it was a herald herald may herald yet, that's my childhood soon. Coach biggest influence in my life. It's great. Wow. My childhood swim. Coach was this old white hairdo d- who would get in the pool with us to play water polo and just no holds barred destroy us. That's that's that's a hero. He was so great. Gotta teach you some life lessons. Absolutely. It's like my grandma in cards. Just shredded me every time. There is no like all let them win to build his confidence a rough world out there. Oh god. It was so funny like wanted him to target you that day because it was like something about it was just so great that. He would just kick your ass. Awesome. He was awesome. The other morning. My middle child. Came barreling into our room in the morning. Good morning, Ray of sunshine, the leaks roofing, or the the leaks roofing. Yeah. I hear you. I ruined the joke. The roof is leaking Jesus Christ. I'm tired, and I was like great. Thank you for being so vigilant, however Chipper to they they have no idea, and it's not their fault. What that does to my day? On the list of you've seen my to do list. See my calendar, which I- ruthlessly call it's annoying. And then all the sudden it's the roof is leaking. Oh, it's gonna rain for two days. So no one can come into after that. Every building you walk into in Los Angeles. When it's raining, you see a fucking bucket moment. Nothing is ready for rain things. Ready? Everything is poorly made. Yeah. It's great. So anyway, so I was like oh cool. But they just have and then she skips out of the room, and I should know. She didn't have no idea. What that does? Like if they could see by the so wonderful behind the curtain, and you hate to like become your parents about it during the day with ago. How come you haven't given me that glass of warm milk, it sometimes you, you know, what let me show you L of the shit that happens behind the scenes, so you can get that milk. Limit. Like, let's dial this thing all the way fucking get so easy. You think it's so I mean, it's so some kids don't have like we do it all the time. But that's also important because like half the city doesn't have food to eat. Right. And they're like, I don't like this kind of peanut butter near like are you fucking? Oh, yeah. We're doing this right now. Guess what? Here's. Here's we're buying one jar peanut butter for the week. And it's going to be one and you're gonna like it. And that's the way it goes one on enough. But you know, what I mean, it's like we don't let it get out of hand. Yeah. For them to and it's again, they shouldn't understand the full stock of things. But at the same time, it's sometimes you just have to show him. Like, you you think this just happened? Right. Like that this all just appears in this is easy, or you know, how can we haven't gone seen the out to train your dragon three movie yet? It's like, well, there's five hundred other fucking complications come in front of that caves, don't get it. And it's not their fault. Sometimes you get a little frustrated. So are they able to maybe your oldest? Do they get when you when you respond with like, hey, hold on? Yeah. Yeah. I'm a good stardom. Low depends on if I like really shove him right out of their stool or not I tried to save that for the for the big less. Yeah. Yeah. Just kidding. Sorry is this just an open window? No screen. There's a screen of fell out onto the other roof. Okay. Isn't a nice day today? We're getting a little breeze. Yeah. It's great. I just very open for just any anything to fly in. Here seems interesting would fly in here any sort of bug. What do you mean? There's no bugs in Los that. Okay. Yeah. It's fine. We're not going to get a book. So what do we do this weekend? Brian a big weekend was a very cool event. Pretty we missed the team photo. We did miss a team photo. Apparently, I was downstairs getting us movie. When it happened testing, Brian and I participated for the first time with our bodies, we've contributed money's before we participated with our bodies in cycle. I revival partnering with equinoxes and Memorial Sloan Kettering cancer center to fight rare cancers of which there's so many and they're terrible. And it's pretty great. It's a pretty great. Event. Go to economic you sign up with the team. Yeah. I don't know if you can do I'm assuming you can do it individually, maybe teams need people. Yeah. I don't know. I can't imagine. But it gets busy, right? Us into it. Yeah. Yeah. Friend of a friend. Brought us in to Tim who made the music for podcast and his wife Talia they and some friends of ours law someone close to them years ago to one of these rare cancers, so we partnered up with them. They graciously had us which you know, probably the first mistake. I brought grace Grace's. Nice. She was she upped. She certainly know for sure. It was a blast. It was great. You do all your fundraising beforehand? Right. And then the right is more of like a celebration. Yeah. I don't know if you were thinking that halfway through when I was screaming at you. But you're doing a lot of screaming hitting me. And I was trying to get you going again. Unexpected hits. It was really cool. It was really it's like half dance party a half ride your ass off. They literally had people there who weren't who's just just dancing cheer, which was great like I could use that in air. Energetic uplifting event super cool, plus a killer workout, great people. Great people everyone's excited to be there. There was like it was a pretty successful day of money raising also or few weeks or whatever and they do all around the country. They're they're pretty great. So I if if you're interested in participating it's like that it is a great time. I do believe you have to be in a sense. I think anyone can fundraise item. But to participate in the event, I imagine you'd have to join a team or something in the in. Economics member though, that's good to know, they shut the whole gym down for the that fancy as place craziness. I'm surprised they'd let you in there. I paid him. Yeah. It was a it was a good time. We got some swag got shirts. Everybody sweated. Everybody cried. There were delicious little chocolate chip cookies. I had seven of those four before the ride and three after you would think it would go the other way. But you know, me don't eat a bunch of don't eat a bag of chips and three cookies and a little energy bar in sandwich before the ride stomach hurt. It was really cool. So we'll put looks things to that. In the show notes is fun. I I've done a lot of sweating for cancer in the past because. You know, having had people affected by it. And losing one of my best friends. Do it. I realized early on like how do I fix this? Which is the immediate thing. People do and I'm not a scientist. I think that's been passed fifty eight episodes of ask you today. If you're a scientist cleaning. Thank you appreciate. But I can sweat, and I do pretty good job of that. So I'll usually something like that. I will set some sort of very painful event athletic endeavor, say, hey, I'm going to train for this the next few months and raise a bunch of money, and then compete in this or do this ridiculous thing. So this was a fun way to get back to that. It's been a little while since since I did that. But but it's fun. It was funny thinking how different that was from our other favorite fundraising event. LA loves Alex. Also to raise money to help cancer also have to give it your best effort. Absolutely. However, different way instead of I guess you could sweat if it's hot enough. And if you enough I was wedding that day. It was. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. But you were sweating like red wine. Yes. Yep. Other so many drinks bites. Giotto amazing event. If you're in Los Angeles in September every year, please come it's the best, and you will sweat and drink and eat the best route ever had and probably griots out at times when they introduced the ten year old with cancer who's. Far better head space than you could ever be wild. So anyways, we're excited to participate in that. I did we post that to our Instagram? I put I put some on mine. The sightless do that. I did on this almost stories sorted up. So many on yours or ours. Probably mine got it. Okay. On the other one too. Event is over what it was our first one of those. I thought that maybe something like that would be up there. But I was gotta be some fucking thing. Great. Sorry. Sorry. No. You didn't ruin it. It was just a missed opportunity like to to build out, our our the, touch and feel of the brand you know, what? I mean. Do you hate this? Let's just next next topic. Put it picture of the way, you were just looking. There's an amazing what you were just looking. There's an amazing mean going around, and it's three pictures of of who's the bad guy from narcos until I fucking blanket. I don't know the druggy the famous druggy fingers drug kingpin from Colombo Chapo. Nope. From columbia. Oh, Jesus Christ. What's his name? How could brain's not think of its right now, really bad public. Probably Escobar really great me of just three pictures of him. Just like kind of staring into space sad and people use in say like me when I'm waiting for my son to finish his pooping before he goes to it's crap. But that's how you look when you just looking at the floor like existential questions being asked. I was asking myself. What am I doing here? Why am I here right now? What else could we do so many things? So many wonderful things. So yes. So that was not our Instagram. But what is on our Instagram is our our morning show. I call it the best thing we do. I think it is. It is one minute of your time. Most weekday mornings for two five. Only Thursdays is a problem except for one time when I was in Chicago. I didn't do it one day. Yeah. So most mornings Brian gives you the context of for one piece of important news for the day. He it is informative. It is actionable in it is entertaining. His help. Brian does little Instagram stories? Production to it and uses funny memes and gifts, I don't know what those some words are door acres in hashtags, and stickers and hashtags and stuff. I think it's great. So what were we are saying apparently you can run ads for those things. 'cause I was like, well, how do I grow this? Will you just need? Yeah. I mean, so we gotta make a special. You don't not just going to promote one of the episodes make an action lights. Own little how long are those things the each section or the twenty second the fifteen or twenty? I think it's okay. So I think fifty so it's like a regular one that so yeah, it says you can make like a fifteen second ad so make fifteen second ad of the morning show. You can do your little producing thing. And then we'll see if the. If that works, and we'll take her with it. We should look at current ads that run because the ads that run are like. Nice like well produced like, it doesn't have to be just an Instagram story. It can be something that we make look really really good. And then they'll come to the store and be like wise, Brandon his bedroom guests, so I think we want wants to appear off the cuff, right? Not off the cuff me it's an ad. But I think it wants to imply what we're doing great. I'm clearly in my home office. No. That's what makes a window a bright window. There's a plant. No, I'm saying, I don't wanna make some glossy thing. People retain his grudge. Okay. No. I think it can be like a slightly elevators, obviously a little more prepared because it's an ad right. But I think we'd be fun to tinker with him. We could do a couple different ones or we could try thirty second one. But yeah, I think it's a good idea because more people. A lot of time to fucking times. It takes me to get them. Right. How many Laureus I'm curious. I get so mad by the I can't believe that the one that eventually goes up by like sound happy normal because I'm very aggravated that I like misspoke or took my finger off the fucking button or my asshole cat like jumped in so many fucking things that happen. He's gotta stop and deleted start over. Is what you do such a good job of its. Yeah. Like God is like four years ago. No God knows longer than that. When when when they were making the Terminator movies with Christian bale member there is going to be the trilogy, and they may just the one where he was the adult John Connor. And everyone's like, this is Oko we're gonna. Conor story later. And there was that story about somebody walked in front of the camera. Oh, yes. Of course, they found the audio going fuck oil lost his mind ballistic that guy guy those great. So that's you. But was Stevie the cat and Instagram stories. I feel like someone needs to record the audio of you just blowing up on Stevie. It's to be here to sweet Stevie. It's mostly me. I'm just mad at myself fucking ups. TV's always just like in the background like bait doing something stupid. But it's not that stretching. I I just miss speaker say something wrong or don't think I said, it is whatever I just get mad at me has it gotten easier. It's not ever been hard. It's just but it still takes the whole production of it. No just takes a long time. I always fuck up. I got a final stupid stickers. You do such a great job. I want there to be so many more. I know it's great though. I like, I do you mean you wanna put so many more into our thing or you want there to be an availability. The pool of stickers to be to be larger got we got to figure that out. Will you were just saying can we put our own stickers in there don't seem will that be a random like I don't know some things that you'd think there would be some stickers for the search for it doesn't come up. And then there's just like the most there's there's these little stickers of John sina in a like a woman's wig doing all these weird. Like, I just don't understand who what where where's this coming from? It's unclear to me. It's unclear I'm fascinated with whatever you come up with their kinds of brands sometime wanna use. Sometimes I wanna use one. But it's like some some brand name of some. I dunno energy some shit. I've never heard of. I'm like, why don't want it? Like, whom I promoting if I'm using man. Fuck. Nets weird. Yeah. Yeah. It's very strange. Yeah. It's very strange, but I'm into it and impaired. We can use that canvas tool to make put like book ends. I I like canvas Senate. Yeah. I'm just saying it was the article about how to make it looks like ours isn't slick intentionally but also. I don't know. I'm just trying to learn. Hey, Brian question. I'm listening. Yep. Shower, right? What you clean your house? Yes. All right. What's happening? You're also barreling towards marriage and one would assume subsequently fatherhood if not in that order, correct? I guess what? Did they ask you question? Okay. The fourth question for for all of those things cleaning your body, which has become so nice cleaning your house, which I've never been to never been invited to and feeding and bathing your daughter. I don't have a child you can come over whenever you want shirt. But for all of those things you want the best, right? You only use products that are deeply rooted in quality, transparency and community driven values. You want better stuff and yet to spend fewer dollars. Well, yes, of course. Right. Let me tell you something when it comes to choosing a product that's better than the rest. Brian just one label matters. And it's brand Lewis. Okay. That sounds let me tell you. Babies need such a unbelievable amount of stuff so much stuff. And a lot of it has to be replenished often. And that means you go to hell, and that very specific Ella sorting through applesauce diapers and wipes and facial scrubs. At a big box store nine PM. It's a nightmare situation cures things. I'm interested in when it's nine or three or whatever. And I need family supplies organic fair trade vegan whenever possible not tested on animals. Nontoxic cleaners. I'm talking organic applesauce maple syrup olive oil green tea body wash lemon for being a surface cleaning wipes, brownie mix. I mean, I'm not going to lower my stand body wash. Sounds nice. Also, I love brownies and all of sounds very very good. Is there something that you were trying to tell me though, do you know that I'm having a kid before? I know that I might make it doesn't matter. Here's the clincher. Right. I need that stuff. Now like yesterday and Brandis offers better few items. Like those at a better price shipped directly to you again, all very reasonable prices. That actually sounds very interesting. I would just like to have a newborn now. So I could use grandma, but you haven't even heard the best part Brian Brin Lewis gives back and gives you better way to join them every time you check out and buy diapers again. I cannot explain to you. How many diapers they need brand? This donates a meal to someone facing hunger bul. All right. That's awesome. I think I'm gonna call them gopher and we'll make baby right now. I love that. That's a spirit. So right now, our listeners can receive ten dollars off first orders of fifty dollars or more at Brandis. So go to brand Louis dot com code listen start saving on high-quality products. So be like me guys and gals. Don't wait a second long ago to Brown this dot com. Enter the code, listen and get ten dollars off your first order of fifty dollars or more and start enjoying high quality products deserve today. I think it's a good idea to to to do the little story ad. I love when I'm putting through you could be the Walter Cronkite of morning, news one minute everyone's onto these like 'cause there's all these daily podcast now like the New York Times made there's an fucking exploded the one story in the morning, and they do this. It's great uncle and that literally every newspaper has one and then the skim ladies of this game. Her amazing that end of day one this week, which apparently literally was a top thing in the Bacchus immediately. Excellent for us. It's like, I like, you know, they're like twenty minutes, or whatever one minute Brian tells you not the whole news, but one piece of news, it's important one day, something that should stick in your brain all day, I'm into it. I was nice addition. We had thought about it for a while. Then skimmed to start the podcast, so many plans. The people. What what what you actually did Detroit execute on that do you? Remember? You rearranged your entire room that sucked? You paying green giant green screen hung up on on? You know, like light stands taking up half of my bedroom. While everything else is just jammed at the other side, we're going to get lights. I used a I think this is better the way we're doing it used a like a cropping tool to see like how we sit you in the camera like as if you're going to be at a news desk. I mean what? This is so much better. I really like it. Yeah. I enjoy it. It's good. But yeah, I think it'd be fun to grow that we're going to try to enlist my wonderful cousin Rachel who's a like an internet. Yeah. Savant. And as Roma she is thousands and thousands of followers who's got amazing little -fession brand. And try to get her going to get these influencers paying attention to us now that we got a track record for that in the writings, and we've cleaned up earn scream feed look super nice. Yeah. We're on the way Brian. I'm I feel great. It's just you know, it's a lot like you think about what like real companies and brands put towards advertising and marketing right enormous resources, and we have like zero. So I think you're doing a pretty good job. Right. But just imagine if someone handed us a check. Yeah. For boatload of cash, and we put a purely towards growth. If I can't even crazy, right? Be awesome. Be awesome. If anyone asks. Just getting we haven't gone to do like VC or anything like that on purpose because it just brings more. The kitchen venture capital or angel capital or anything like that just angel investors. Yes. It's just more cooks in the kitchen, and I'm not super interesting cooks was that. Did you ever watch too many cooks? No, what was that? Like this video that somebody made on the internet is pretty funny. Check it out. Put a near will nuts. Brian says watched too many cooks, I did watch. I don't watch that much. These days you watch the Mullany one. I saw one clip of the Mullany one. There was some funny stuff in the only the only one I saw was the game show. What's that name? Which is which was all which was so great because hater is such. He is looking good on American hero Kathi. So great. I mean, this kid is literally my wife and my worst nightmare worst nightmare. But they were incredible. They were all incredible. That was really great. I was really a couple of good ones from that. Yeah. I end up watching a little bit 'cause my roommate watches it and we're both like always pretty disappointed, unfortunately. But there's some good stuff. And there was a couple pretty solid skits in that one. Yeah. I really enjoyed it. I watched it twice actually. Yeah. No was fantastic. And every parent one day Brian one day soon and hey. Pumped one day. So I'm excited. Not soon. You're going to be fighting to keep your bedroom as a sanctuary and let me tell you. It is like what is the as? Yeah. That's that sounds right. I think it's the Lord of the rings the two towers second mole like with the hour and a half long battle sequence. The battle Helm's deep. That's basically what it is trying to keep my children out of my. My. The other night. I came home late from my adult softball game. Best part. Week. Oh, that's back on how long you've been doing that about a week or two great can't quite play. All the way getting there. Come back in bedroom. Stark wife asleep and try not to anybody up. I had some water. I put it on our bookshelf and some stuff it's pitch black in there. Accidentally knocked the water over on the bookshelf, which is covered in pictures and stuff trying to clean it up on like fuck. Fuck. Fuck I go to turn on my bedside light. And my kid had literally it's a bedside. It's a table lamp. Yeah. She had taken the the the Turner switch. Yeah. Off the lamp why? So now there's been a switch for the flight. L? Don't come in my room. Don't like. Owns thing. I'm just image. So my wife is sleeping, really? Well, this is great for me. Thank you. I'm just storming around waters. Thanks so much. And then I'm like, hey, did you come in my room? No may know, really. So really that's weird. Is it one of those little black nods? Turn Holter disassembled like the fucking lamp. Happens all the time like I'll leave my little kindle on the bedside table. And then like I'll be sitting here in the middle of the day and get an Email from Amazon says like you rated your book one star you've finished on like, no, I didn't do that. When what get out of my? That's good. Nothing think about all the things in your in your house, right? This is example, we always use when we go to like an event, which we don't at someone else's house and either their children are older or they don't have them. And I'll look at like, a bookshelf, like, a low, lying bookshelf or something like that or a fireplace or a table and realize like so they put a book there or they put a statue. Or whatever the Ryan, right? If they don't move that. It doesn't move that's gonna be there, which is very foreign concept me. So this is happening all the time where you're like go to share is. They're not they're gone. Yeah. Gone book is reviewed one-star book is finished lamp is disassembled. Yep. Yep. It's very frustrating being for me because I like, we're all my shit is. And that it's you know, like oh that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's good times. It's the best though, Brian. I do a chair should every day. I'm sure good morning. I'm leaking. Renan here. But we got a beautiful day today to get me a baby I think it's Donna get you a baby it's done rating. Just go get to go. Get one, right? It's a nice sunny day. I'm excited that the rain stopped first, selfish reasons, but it's been great the other night. I mean, thunder and lightning. Yeah. Incredible. Awesome. I stood outside didn't care. So it outside to listen to how great the thunder was because I love it. Miss it due to Chicago, thunder and lightning. Oh, yeah. He's ghost is amazing when we're there in the summers. I mean that should happen every fucking afternoon. Incredible. That's why people whenever they ask to go is in Virginia hot during the summer, and I go, yes. And yes, it's very humid in one. It's not Alabama. Just like it's winters is not New York, but it's one hundred and ten degrees here too. But the difference is there we get rain like every other day thunderstorm that just kind of it breaks it up here from April to November is just one hundred. Yep. There's no rain. There's no cloud. So weird. You know? So I got thunderstorms. It's just the best. Yeah. I really I love when they happen because they're so rare here. Because I grew up with them. And and I miss them. It's the best that sound is just great for some reason. And then on the opposite end, it was thundering enlightening where on the west side where Grace's living and she texted me. She's from California. She'd text me she's like, well, nice Nonni. Guess I'm gonna die. Yeah. So it's like insane. It's Christmas out. Great. Gotta get yourself baby. Yeah. I know it couple years couple years, Brian. You know, you know, what runs in the family on my girlfriend side? What's that twins? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Very excited. It's going to be Quinn's. Golly. You know, what's going on the Instagram stories that nightmare? So. Yeah. I'm sure. How you roll in here to Sheffield kind of nine minutes late. Sometimes most times let not hold on just said most I'm saying you included the word shoveled, which is very incorrect. I do not come here to shovel. That is insane to say people are listening to this. I'm always put together when I'm in public. I'm late. Yes. But I do not come to shop. When I don't think I've ever come to shovel. Sometimes I come maybe like with an attitude of fuck it's been a long day already or I had a late night exasperate Chevy. That's crazy. Maybe you're you're on Beyonce's dishing, regardless way to have a kit. I literally get here. And I spend the first twenty minutes just staring at the wall trying to pull my life back together. And they're great. They're great. They're they're not difficult. Responsive ever the less nevertheless, staring at the wall. Good times. Good times. We're gonna rearrange in here. Brian. We're going to get your setup. What where did this come from yet? We're going to do it. Well, when they have to pay the bills when you throw at your L five said on the couch here fifty nine episodes in we're going to get rid of that chair. Even though it's really nice when you walk in and looks at centers the rooms desk over there. We shouldn't give it at the chair. Now. What are we going to do? What is this necessary? What desk that that's going to be your desk? We're gonna move it over here. Oh, it's a little. I'm just getting. So can we just put the chair there? Why is it over there? What do you mean? There's going to be a whole empty spot there. And the you're gonna throw the airway we're gonna I'm not gonna throw it away. What is what do you mean? No one wants to sit over there. I would sit there if the chair was there, not if I move your desk over there, you won't also this is going to I don't know about this idea because this gets super hot right here. Where the fuck else is going come just saying get super warm right there. Sure it does. But with what we ever liked blocking curtains or heap blocking curtains. Why don't we just leave it where it is? But turn face you. Is that weird? No. I mean, we could try that. I think it's kind of awkward because you gotta push it out pretty far to be able to get a chair behind it. I'm open to anything. I just don't want to be hot Saul. But usually if usually it's doesn't get hot in here in the summer until like a like later, and I'm not here in the summer. Whatever it's well, it's a trick question at summer all the time. I'm just saying if we started, you know, the hour that we usually start then maybe it'll be fine. Because by the time the son gets earlier, I'm trying to encourage you to stay for the day. So that we have a company you refused to do that. But we used to do it. You we clean up this mess. That's not even messy the see through doors so upsetting. I mean. Okay. But it does not. Doesn't look that. I'm just I'm trying to accommodate. So you have a desk of your place. You don't have to sit in hurt. Your back at towns. Really good. We'll hook up your gear to it. That'd be great. Then when the gear is a big mess over there. Yeah. We'll give it to the chair. We'll just throw it out. Right. But we I don't know where figure out what to do with those tables because they make for a nice. It's just entering. We don't need to do too much. I don't think it'll work anymore. Probably have to give it all that stuff. It's too bad. I like them. But we'll just do what you need. Oh my God. Put the fucking chair over there. With one of those tables at perfect. I don't think it all fit. Anyways. This has been fun talk. Why we're done? No. I mean, don't have to be how long has it been thirty. That's pretty good. Thirty minutes is not bad. Not good bad. Not bad. Not good. That's pretty good. We're doing team stuff together. We both got stuff where that's what that's what you do at an office at a company place. We might not literally be recording something together. But you've got stuff you're doing. For the team you're here for like, forty forty five minutes. And then you. It's a mutually here from nine oh nine to fuck. You know, want one or something Levin, twelve one? That's good. That's good four hours. Nice. Just. The week. Now if I didn't have to. Work. My other dumb job. I'd be her longer. Okay. Okay. Could. All right. We're going to get out of here and go see what else I missed today. No, you're great love you. Thanks for listening. Everyone. I love working here. Really do. Call for help if I'm no. All right. We're out of here. It's been great reminder. You can send topics questions thoughts. Dreams to fun, talk and important onboard dot com or Twitter at important unemp-. Check out a newsletter it important on Porton dot com. Brian's morning show. What's the Instagram handle or not important great every morning every weekday morning? The most part by the time you get up. Why we don't have to just? Understand what it should be. So they can expect it anyways. Just check around ten. You ate me you have agreed weekend. Every by.
S01E22: How to Collaborate and Win with VIP Guest Lara Knuettel
"The This is secrets to win big your roadmap to sustained growth brought to you by June San Founder and CEO of Zan Mango brand, whisper top brand growth driver, and a former fortune five hundred executives who has been called one of the most marketing intelligent minds in the business. find him at Zen Mango Dot Com, and now here's your host our June San. Welcome to secrets to win big with. Arjun, sent. I'm Arjun. And is truly a pleasure to have you join on this edition. Of Secrets to. Winning is fun but I have found that big wins winning big was put you on the path to long term sustained success at that is where the real fun comes in. In this podcast, you'll hear from leaders from all around the world from all walks of life sharing their secrets about how to win. Today. My VIP guest is Lara Nudo. Nahra is the seal of the Jewish community center in Denver. Laura is committed to the mission and vision of the Jewish community center and looks forward taking it to the next level agenda Laris career when I reflected on this simply amazing on the contribution he has made. She has been focused on philanthropy and includes position in advancing and development and project management at Memorial. Sloan Kettering. Cancer, center. UCLA held. cedars-sinai Medical Center at invested kids. and to me. that. I. Heard About Sloan Kettering really connected to me because me being a cancer survivor that was the place where I went for treatment and truly unfortunate to have Laura here. And when Laura's not working enjoys time spent spending time with her husband Frank Three Peters Jack Sophie and Izzy, and of course they're adorable DUB Katie. Not Up Welcome. Enki largen happy to be. Here. Through your pleasure Samara off the back, I really want to go straight into the commonalities between every brand your worked on. These are philanthropy brands. These are brands that make the world better. What connects Laura these these brands That's a great question I what connects me to the brands is. Serve others whether it's in a medical institution or in a community center or at a school by entire Mo for being about serving others and making an impact in the lives. Why are you serving other so important like you with your skill set, you could be successful so many other areas. So what got you to solving what stalking you on the path and what keeps you that I am very committed to. Build Missions In in nonprofit organizations it's. Some people come to work nonprofits. certainly is the business side, but it's what drives people to come to work every day is that mission? And for the last twenty, five years, I've seen the power of how what that propel that propels people in their work and in their achievements and getting things done. There is there's a Jewish phrase Latorre, Vidor, it needs from generation to generation and for all of the organizations that I have worked with all the nonprofits. My goal is to make sure that those organizations are there for the next generation. So preserving that mission. while. In just we all heard from Lara is. For any non-profit at the core, it's the mission that our people. And then there has to be a bigger picture which is in the business world. I don't even think there's a term for it when you say long term short term. Because what are talks about? Transferring this and making adding value generation to generation. And really applaud you Lara for doing that. To me I would also have to understand. In the nonprofit business. In, sorry to use the what business but nonprofit world where you're giving back. What does it take to be successful as a leader? What it takes is what I would call balance It's a balance with an eye towards the Michigan. Though. The allens of operating it like a business. And I think I bring a unique skill set I have my MBA and and it's a very important part of how we look at the Jewish community center it omission driven, but it's business underneath the core at. And that's how that's how we create the sustainability is operated like a business. Who little bit more on operating like a business? What do you mean by that? So I, we have a finance committee and I have to report. And held accountable to the Finance Committee and the Board of Directors on out. Our progress, our productivity, our contribution margin at the staff I in turn whole staff accountable to that as well. So it's balancing act. Business side. and. That's how JC is able to operate successfully is because we balanced business impact. That's brilliant. So the business side. The way you run it is just like any other incredibly high functioning business. Bought each one of are committed to governed by the mission. And the bigger picture commitment of JCC to the community. So. You know when you look at in your know amazing career what has been your biggest success story. And more importantly, how did our get there because that would be the secret we all want to know from needed. I'm I'll tell you that my biggest success story changed the trajectory of my life. I was actually in Business School Monique City at I, needed to make some extra money. Someone told me to get a job at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center as a temp. Because it was flexible hours and So I went and I interviewed I type to save myself. But I convinced them to give me a shot. I ended up. In their temporary service office and ended up working in a part of the development office called the Society Office and that turned into a year long. even if even though I was a temp at the time. Fell, in love with philanthropy by watching the AX. Is Organization to slow kettering how it how it internally affected our patients and research. When I was about to graduate business school I was my trajectory was opening corporate childcare centers. Ask someone in the in the society office asked me if. They ought basically there's a job in the in the. Rest. Of Sloan Kettering and I should apply for it not experience. I went in competing against. A host of other people who had a lot more experience. I did but I I was willing to jump in and give it my all and I convinced them to hire me with literacy no development experience for a big. For big position and that is what changed the trajectory of my life, my professional career. was taking with making that move. So I think for those of us were listening who are at the early phase of a career. That I really want to know is when you walked in I for the temp job. And secondly, when you shared with pride and also the reality that you may not have had all the qualifications or credentials of some of the others for the second job. But you had a lot of confidence and delivered. So. What was the attitude like what? Like. What was the preparation what went through your mind when you got that amazing job like you walked in for the temp job and the second one year project the position. That's a great question. I'm it was my drives. It was my drive and it's it has propelled to me. A lot of challenging circumstances at my professional career that of all led to my position at the but I think it's my drive and it's not a drive to win or a drive to succeed I. Think it's just natural drive. to do good and. I ask them to take a chance on me that they wouldn't They wouldn't be making a mistake if they hired me and I just kind of let it all out I fear nothing to lose. I was go working in corporate childcare setting and. I didn't even think I I didn't know how much I wanted the job until I was sitting in front of the Senior Vice President of development for spunk. Kettering. So. The whole thing for success is it comes from inside. The natural drive to do good. And also lower, what you talked about is. You believed in yourself to the point where you convince people sitting across the desk from premium. The super VP and I'm just looking at you at. Just early part of starting a career. Making that person believe in you and take a chance in you. and. I think that's Kinda powerful and especially their dried especially in current times calling days how is that guiding you and the team? The what's your success through this as you take this issue forward What's the big? What's the driving force? That's? Against such a great question, I'm going to use the word resilience. And that is what has guided this organization over these past. Months the uncertainty, and the fact that we are replaced where people gather and we can't gather and. And we are fee for service organization that can't operates. In the way that we need to operate And so it's been the resilience of me having to constantly pivot with the Organization for the organization. That has I think In successful so far. So the leader as you're being resilient and of course, you are going to the current challenge. How do you balance? The safety of T. members. The kiddos? And also the guests but at the same time be there for the community because the community really needs. Or activists or how do you find a balance? So. I have a great. Team and We e. Scenario Planning and I have incredible board. Directors who work with. Try strategize and help us get through. Times. We literally brought scenarios. Based on risk at. Providing service to the community and creating opportunity for the organization and that's kind of how we looked at it and we're able to balance. You for the Community Should be. Where we should be at this time? So. If you're joined late, you're listening to see Chris Been Big with John. And today our VIP guest is narrow. Lara's Rockstar seal at the Jewish community center at Denver. Sarah now as you start going through. It is very obvious to all of us that. You have that special DNA. Where you want to do. Good. So who are one thing or one Incident that inspired you the most to be in dispatch. So I am fortunate to have a a board of advisors I, call them my board of Advisors. Who I can lean on that inspire me every day. It's the they all have played significant roles in my in my career, my professional life. I think that. I think the thing that has inspired me the most is. The historic transaction that I was able to. See. J. C. C. was in a tremendous amount of debt and. We were able sue in over a ten month period a off all that debt on what day. What was inspiring about it is an I have raised millions of dollars, lots of organizations across the country. Money to pay off debts. Was the first time that I've ever had to do something like that. The the stories, the history of of A. In the Jewish community and also the greater community that it serves. was incredibly inspiring and because I didn't grow up in a town that had a Jewish community center and they're all the country it is so embedded in some people's lives in their. And I was able to watch families literally hit US money because this organization was that important to them to make sure that it was here for the next generation. That's incredibly inspiring. So you mentioned about raising money. You have a lot of organizations when you work have been working for not only a good cause to do. Good. But also, you have raised funds. What's your secret like one secret for RAISING FUNDS FOR NONPROFIT ORGANIZATION I there's a couple. One is the relationship am and I take it very seriously. I take the relationships that I have with people. seriously. and. I am also a big believer in that that relationship has to have a level of trust. And lots of people to emission, but they also give because trust leadership is doing the right thing with your investment, it their philanthropic investment, and that's how that's how I look at it and I I WANNA do right by the donors and so that's that is how I approached. All. Of My relationships with the donors and it's it's critical. You just hold it right here. Laura. The big secret. For Fundraising for nonprofit is relationship and trust. And the phrase that I really. It resonated with me is do right. For the donor, the donor needs to realize that using resources. You're doing the right thing following the mission, the organization. So You as you build your team. What are some of the traits which are very important to you in a future leader? For me being a good collaborator. Be Part of team is critical because you cannot. It takes a village. And you need people who can be at the table together and challenge each other. Conversations and rumbled together. Being a good listener. is another critical skill that I look for in in In and when I build teams a commitment to excellence and. I hold the bar very high I I also model that but it's even if you can't be lent, it's that you're committed to being excellent. Whoever walks in the door that you? No matter how you feel inside you are providing excellent customer service per excellent information or it it's it's about thinking that you are committed to excellence on. A will go ahead. Sorry. But what's the difference between being excellent? which is very difficult for most of us to do that. Consistently and what is about? Commitment to excellence. What's the difference? Well, it's in the thinking, right I mean, we know that we can't. Be Excellent but mid to that were always striving for that. I think that's the that's the added. Like we said we're all human but if we are in our in our minds committed to. Excellence. then. I. Think we're on a on the right track. And so to me yesterday, I was talking to John Register an amazing Rockstar. Who Talks about amputate fear. And one of the things that we learned was. Most of us are brands because we are in the animal. Kingdom. Is wired to be. Mediocre. To be right to. Be Safe. Like even the TV show in CBS of survivor is about you winning. The last person. Is Eliminated. But. I just think that there's something that you talked about touches. A really. Amazing Talk Is. Always think and strive like that aspiration and I really think all of us do that it just is in today's world. It's a bad word to use but let us anyway it's a good contagious energy that builds US altogether because one negative todd brings us down. But all of us that positivity that you're talking about, and of course you live that is so priceless. So Naro based on all your experience you know everything if. We try to take any of these amazing learnings, what is universal and take that to a for profit business because we all want to learn and use what you're doing. What few nuggets that he would share that works in your world and also in the for profit business On I think surrounding yourself with a strong team. Because we can't pretend to know every. holding people accountable to to what they say in what they do. Transcends both a nonprofit in the for profit world. And just as I, you know stocks people ask you to buy stock in a company I'm asking people to make philanthropic investment in a how. So, instead of my return on investment. Is the impact that we create and. Like there's. I have to be able to show to our. And to our constituents. That we are doing the right thing with. With, their money with their funding and and that while aren't necessarily producing widgets there. There is an impact to what to what we do. Love that and you defined the nonprofit are allied to maximize impact. Off. Dollars. Loved it. Sarah if Laura today. Goes back and talks to that killed A. Just graduating from getting ready to graduate from college. What would we want advice you have For the amusing kit over the great career ahead. Relationships matter. How you show up. Matters. And You know I've worked I worked for some pretty challenging people in my career and. I didn't walk away from those challenges I went at it head on and learned so much from the people that that that I worked for and with and. And just taking that. As an amazing learning experience to grow from. Is something that I didn't appreciate. and also to form a board of advisors on and that changed throughout your professional career. But having people advise you stand by you prop you up give you good advice along the way is is invaluable. Up that the board of advice in the concept that I've heard a lot is talking about the fight those five people who are there by your site the tell you the truth, the guide you, but they're always there. You. Know I love the whole matters, talkable relationship matters and how you show up matters but I. I won't do as little bit more and I don't want to get into specifics I just want to understand your mindset is. You said with a lot of confidence looking at the screen never walk away from challenges that. Sometime challenges. Look like Mount, Everest in front of us. What's the first thing thinks of? That tells her hey, I'm in I'm not walking away. What's the first thing you think of in a big challenges in front of you? I compartmentalize it. So instead of getting overwhelmed by the challenge itself, I added stages or steps how do I get to step two step two is going to get me to step in what do I need to get to step four? Do I need to bring in to help me consult to get to step five? I never while. Steering the ship I I have input and and support along the way. But I I, try to compartmentalize it. So. It's lake. You have so many incredible processes. So, and I also find that leaders were very successful. Have Processes they have plans because success that is planned and has a process behind only success can be repeated. So we have a process or a ritual or something that you how you start your day, and what's the last thing you do before you're finishing your workday that we want to share with us So I can't really speak to the end of the day because normal I i. I even can start to do the things that are really thought all but or get out of bed in the morning I just am grateful for being able to get out of bed in the morning. And and be there for my family and and my skin. And that is how it it's what propels me to get out of bed is and they're an amazing there I'm very lucky. To be surrounded by. The people in in my home that I'm surrounded with. I start my day. Studio I'm so glad you shared that. With us because to me, I really think. In an award of where we are all rushing to get more. This was such an amazing lesson that at the core, it's the family that matters and they are there for you every day of your life. To start with that gratitude, I really think that puts you especially in such an amazing mindset. So, if anyone wants to get in touch with you, what's the best way to get in touch with this rockstar? Super. Amazing. I'm the best place to get in touch with me is through the J. Denver wet website. It's JCC, DENVER DOT IRC and under staff might email address is available and I reply back. I E mails and. Available. So. If you need any more inspiration have questions, you can reach out. Through Jason Denver's that site. Salah, this was such an incredible. In sharing from you. And There they're quite a few gets the few things that really helped me. And stay with me our number one is. The whole concept of how you balance. The impact you operated like a business but at the same time, you're staying true to the mission and that's the part where what I realized is. Even though there are some fundamental differences between a nonprofit and a prophet. I really think for those of us were in the for profit business. We really must understand that the commitment to mission is something we all must have, and that takes us to the next level. The second thing that also. was very important. Is that natural Dr do good? And I really think that is so core from nonprofits. But also for brands who are in the Prophet site. We need to have the natural drive to connect to our purpose because we don't exist for ourselves in the profit side, we exist to make other successful. The took part is. What you should us about fundraising. And that was like a super gold or platinum nugget that you shared, which was so simple a brilliant was. It's about relationship. It's about level of trust. It's about you doing the right thing. With Gordon Money, which again creates that whole trust and respect that giving you the money you can. You will continue to the right things and again, that was a brilliant absolute insight. And then. You know I also. Think that it's very important in today's world with with nineteen. You taking responsibility for the organization you taking an responsibility for the community how you talked about you and your senior management team you guys are planning for every situation looking at different risks, planning steps so that way. Yup taking as much of uncertainty out and putting solutions in place. You also showed us. That there is an Alawite on the non-profit side to wear your maximize the impact. The dollars that you have been entrusted. So to me that whole trust part really hit home and finally the fourteen that who talked about his relationships matter how you shop matters never walk from challenged the border advices the fab five Bart that whole concept of compartmentalizing challenge taking it. One step at a time just goes back to my grandma used to tell me and it's a very common story is how do you eat an elephant and of course? I would look at my grandma was are eating elephant for dinner tonight. It. Was Not funny when she smacked me on the back of my head but then she would teach me. It's all about breaking into tiny pieces the. Elephant, tonight but it also is what is the first piece the first domino that you go after? So now this has been absolutely incredible are thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Martin. Thank you all for listening to secrets to win big with our Johnson. For those of you listening to this live Tancu and please share this podcast with your friends. Lou. You've been listening to secrets to win big with our June say founder and CEO of Zen mango rent whispered top brand growth driver, and a former fortune five hundred executive who has been called. One of the most marketing intelligent minds in the business to learn more visit www dot zen mango, dot com sheer this podcast with your friends and subscribe wherever you like to listen to podcasts.
Mayo Clinic Radio on Cancer: Novel cancer therapies
"Mayo Clinic Radio. Presents a conversation about novel cancer therapies. With Mayo Clinic researcher. Doctors Fed of Mayor Markovic. The show hosts are Dr Tom. Shives and Tracy McRae. This podcast was recorded on November. Second twenty-six. Welcome back to clinic radio. I'm Dr Tom. I'm Tracy mccray skin cancer. Tracy is the most common form of cancer in the United States and the deadliest unfortunately a form of skin cancer called melanoma and that's because once melanoma metastasized or spreads to other parts of the body. The treatment options have historically been pretty limited. The Melanoma Research Laboratory at Mayo Clinic is working to improve survival rates by developing novel treatments for Metastatic Melanoma these treatment modalities include immunotherapy chemotherapy. And nanomedicine over that is. I'm glad we're going to learn as researchers rick to understand how the patient's immune system interacts with the tumor here to discuss these novel. Cancer Therapies is the director of the Melanoma Research Lab Doctors Mira Markovic. Welcome to the program. Dr Markevic thanks better. Very nice to have you Here and always nice to know when you are seeing one of our our patients because you're sort of one of the melanoma Google around here and historically Melanoma has been easily curable. Easy to treat if it's caught early but once it metastasized once it spreads elsewhere. It's been a very difficult problem Forever as as long as I can remember. Yeah you're absolutely right Tom. This is William Ostler. Even defies melanoma cancer gives cancer a bad name to father. Madison wonder reasons has been as the malignant melanoma. The the cell itself is extraordinarily evolutionary resistant to all sorts of noxious stimuli. The cell originates from essentially nerve cell origins and it involves on the skin of the body where it acts as a producer of Melanin to protect the skin from ultraviolet radiation in doing so. The cell is bred to be resistant to various noxious influences like ultraviolet radiation chemical influences from the skin and so forth thus when a cell like this becomes malignant loses its ability to be controlled by the environment for regulated growth. It becomes very difficult to treat and as you well know the last thirty years. We've had very little IF ANYTHING UNTIL FIVE YEARS. I've never heard explained that way. That's that's very interesting why it is so resistant to to treat resisted to so many things. Yes it basically you know. It has the genetic equivalent of an elephant for for inept very small package a lot of genes available to protect itself and it uses very efficient. What's the current standard? How you said until five years ago so until five years ago what was happening. So basically in our field melanoma metastatic malignant melanoma doctor said which is imminently curable disease. When caught very very early when it becomes metastatic it is essentially life ending unfortunately with for most patients up until five years ago All we really had was treatment that could barely control the pace of growth of this tumor. And we've had a treatments that unfortunately could only prolong survival. In a matter of months with average survival times. Being on the order of seven to nine months. Depending on which study really wants it had had metastasized. The survival is very limited extremely limited in what I normally unfortunately within our practice as as time as you know you would see a patient for Thanksgiving odds of seeing that patient again next Thanksgiving would be relatively low and there's been a lot of work in this field because of that the other interesting thing about melanoma metastases anywhere brain liver in ICAN even go to the bone and as you know we've seen it in the bone and the reason that we have had to operate on it sometimes in the past is because it will grow so much that it compromises the integrity of the bone worried about a fracture but the interesting thing about it is when you look at melanoma metastatic to bone. It's black just like the original tumor really. It is oh and looking at the prep for speaking with you. I come across the phrase immuno-genetic tumor saying that right correct correct. You're absolutely right. Yeah I know it's it's Kinda interesting story so back in the eighteen eighties You know when Thomas Edison was still working in his shop and you know I think Albert Einstein was in his teenage years. A guy named William Coley was a physician and hospital in New York City. The predecessor Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center. Who had this ingenious idea to infect a sarcoma which is a different type of cancer with bacteria and he could demonstrate resolution of the tour that idea produced in the late one thousand nine hundred eighty s or eighteen eighties. I Apologize What what was known at the time collies toxin the first treatment by wish the harnessing of immune system could be narrowed and directed towards the cancer. This isn't the days prior to started toxic chemotherapy. Prior to what in the fifties and sixties we would refer to as the dawn of set of toxic chemotherapy. The problem is with the introduction of cytotoxic chemotherapy with the drugs that kill cancer. Melanoma re continued to be resistant and a lot of us that were devoted. A substantial part of their professional lives at joined understand and treat this disease had to really start looking at alternative options to treat That were not chemotherapy but that involved immunologic treatments the tumor as immuno-genetic because for time in Memoriam we've known the D. Museam does recognize the cancer but it cannot do anything about it and I would say the last probably fifteen years have truly been a renaissance in the field of cancer immunotherapy specifically in Melanoma metastatic melanoma management research. So what have we got now? And how does it work well we? I've got a few things I've got a few things. We said. Therapy chemotherapy. Nanomedicine start with immunotherapy so basically you know five years ago twenty eleven is sort of the watershed year. I think in our field. I think everything. In metastatic Melanoma Knowledge Prior to twenty eleven is referred to as the Jurassic period and everything since then is really knowledge new newly generated and Lee Incorporated into practice fundamentally what we have now learned is We've gotten insights as to how to regulate the body's immune system so it can overcome the ways by which the tumor protects itself from immunologic destruction in very creative ways. Some work that was originally done at the Mayo Clinic About seventeen years ago Here by now Dr Han Dong. Who's one of our colleagues so immunologic therapy in today's setting that has led to average survival times now in the two year? Mark Relative to seven to nine. Months is a big step forward. But it's still not cured if so what we're doing right now in the realm of immunotherapy is trying to understand how do the eleven hundred regulators of immune system respond in patients that are treated with a immune drug? X? And how the system the body response to that in those do well versus do poorly. And how do we take advantage of that? A lot of work within our group and others in dissecting the environment of the tumor the battlefield between the immune system into cancer also the systemic circulation blood state autoimmune system that some people lend themselves to more a greater response sooner therapy others and does not and then various Sort of moving knob says to adjust inflammation as her immunity to destroy the tumor. So basically when you talk about an immunotherapy you're you're saying that the body's immune system does recognize the fact that melanoma shouldn't be there and it's cancer and the new moon system wants to get rid of it but it can't so you're jacking up the system in a way pretty more Tom. What's interesting about. It is jacking up alone. Probably helps you with a tire but not with the cure of cancer. So what what we've learned. Is that the so if you can imagine. This is a recipe that has about eleven hundred ingredients in it and we're trying to make it taste well for a unique audience as an analogy and in doing so. Each intervention produces a counter intervention by the body's immune system probably an interestingly What we're learning recently in mechanism. Not all that different than how. The Placenta protects the baby from the mother's immune system so a multitude of different regulators protect the fetus from being rejected from the MOM's immune system. The melanoma is alive organism in many ways a parasite into the body once it becomes metastatic so it is actively co-opting the regulation of the Systemic Immune System in a way that allows it to survive. The task for us is to understand how it's doing that overcome at at the battlefield and also overcome it throughout the body where the immune cells are being made to fight it so you have increased the survival for patients with metastatic melanoma from seven to nine months to what now an average of two years and I can tell you we are Might my fellows those come to train with us. Now are very disappointed. When we don't create a complete remission patients with metastatic melanoma which six seven years ago was an impossibility and on her. So we talked about Immuno therapy chemotherapy. The World of chemotherapy is always changing. I suppose when drug companies are involved correct correct. So what's different in chemotherapy? So it's interesting about melanoma again coming from from a disease in which nothing has worked for very many years there has been a a series of almost generational expansion of people that have tried to sort of practice not And some of them have immunologists from DB -nology background and others have also been pharmacologist people that that have developed in their scientific lives into into understanding according to human genome and what that means and so since the development of the Human Genome Project Days of our awareness of the multitude into Heterogeneity of the genome that led to the Tumor Genome Atlas as as to identify mutations unique to various malignancies one of the early findings in around two thousand two thousand one that was published by the Welcome Fund was that a certain series of genes were necessary for the survival of melon sites. The normal cells and these genes were extensively. Hyperactive in the context of malignant melanoma. Are these considered the genes of the patient or the genes of the tumor. These are the genes of the tumor. The gene's cancer. If you think of cancers disease in general cancer is really a genetic disorder a disorder of mutated genes that allows the cancer cell to live in a different way relative to its normal counterpart. Does it go from me? The patient having cancer genes to the tumor having its own genetics. Absolutely so what what happens. Really so the is. What is the intervention That takes place and malignant melanoma. It is very simple answer. It's ultraviolet light. Ultraviolet light takes These cells that are rapidly dividing into skin whose sole job is to protect the skin from ultraviolet injury because it produces piglet producers pigment utan. When you're out in the sun exactly right and what also happens is when you when you don't Tan fast enough but you burn top layers of the skin to protect these cells from extensive ultraviolet damage lose that level of protection now ultraviolet radio radiation which serves as a carcinogen creates mutation causing cancer causing agent creates mutations injury to the DNA of these malignant melanoma sites that are sort of fighting to protect the rest of the of of the cohorts from ultraviolet radiation in doing so become themselves susceptible once these events take place as they call. So matic mutations take over and the tumor cells become not normal but transform into malignant phenotype. It's those genetic mutations that as of roughly eight years ago we can now therapeutically target. And that's why you and a lot of other college are not big fans of tanning backs. No we're not because Tan is damage. Just like a burn is damaged so there is not a healthy Tan. Not really I hate to say. Probably the best one is one from bottom and from the bottom area. Do you have any idea? How many different agents Modalities have been tried to treat to treat melanoma the past few decades. I can remember interfere on all different sorts of chemotherapy agents. How many do you have any idea? There is there has never. There has never been a uncle. Logic agent a chemical treatment of cancer that that is currently or has ever been in clinical practice that has not been used in the league. Nabil wow demolish I everything everything all right. So nanomedicine yes. What does that mean? So one of the one of the age long problems in cancer therapy when the cancer is disseminated has been how to deliver the right drug to the right sal all the time and you can imagine if you have cancer cells Ten and along one hundred and liver five thousand in the leg four in the brain and you have to deliver a drug that will have to hit all of those and you can only injected into the vein. Whatever amount of drugs you give. Only a small fraction goes to those small enclaves of cancer cells whereas the rest of the based body in the toxication so most of chemotherapy as chemical treatment of cancer has developed. We are able to dose based on maximally tolerated dosing because so much of the drive. Ninety five plus percent of it goes to normal normal organs and only a little of. It actually gets into the tour. And that's why so many side effects from Chemo. Exactly in many ways. That's the Bane of chemotherapy. Chemical therapy of cancer so about five six years ago through a relatively serendipitous Set of events in our lab. Where something that? We thought wasn't working in fact was but we didn't understand why it was. We came to a realization that we could glue to unique molecules together And one of which was a virus like particle That could be loaded with chemical agents and the other was an Immunoglobulin Which is a molecule that could seek out features of cancer and provide a guidance system to that bigger molecule that we've attached to it so many ways we've developed what it looked like five years ago. A smart bomb for cancer. The seeking piece of it was the antibody which is normal immunologic product of life where the body makes antibodies to fight infections. So we simply took an antibody that would recognize a cancer and glued onto it A toxic payload. Wow so toxic payload I like it and it goes where it needs to go. Whether it's the five thousand cells in the Labor the fourth four cells in the brain without going to where. It's not supposed to go theoretically that's the plan We've now made ten agents. Like this ten nanoparticles for various different malignancies. The first one is in clinical trials now in metastatic melanoma and ovarian metastatic varying cancer and. We're very excited by the early data. It's a phase one I man I in human clinical trial and just yesterday we submitted our second of a series of ten agents for the treatment of Hematological malignancies so This is what this is where the word targeted there came from. Please okay. So you've got targeted there for al-anon might you've got immunotherapy now? I assume that targeted therapy is similar to chemotherapy. And intravenous what about immunotherapy honey? Give back so therapy right now. The the most the greatest success has been with intravenous treatments again. The idea of a set of overcoming the barriers that the tumor produces by making the host immune system. Such that allows tumor to grow. And we simply disrupt that signal There's colleagues of ours in in Florida. are have discovered a combinatorial regimen with a topical drug applied to a metastatic melanoma. That has a component of intraocular tumor injection Some of our colleagues here in radiation oncology have figured out that if you radiate the melanoma which by the way you know years ago was considered to be a radiation resistant tumor but if you give enough of the radiation not only will they destroy the tumor but will generate an immune alert throughout the body to cause these immunology treatments to work better. We can modulate immune system in different ways. I would imagine this transfers over to other cancer treatments in coming years all cancers all the time Great Work Markovic. He has cancer specialist melanoma expert and director of the. Mayo Clinic. Melanoma research lab great to have you with us. Thank you for the latest in health and medical news go news network DOT Mayoclinic Dot Org.
Ep. 138: Heres To A Happy, Healthy, Motto-vated 2020!
"The following podcast contains explicit language. As much as I complain about academy screener. Swag Ado really love this. Modern love tote bag. I know I have found. I just cannot get enough tote bags in my life. Hi and welcome. Welcome to happier in Hollywood. The podcast about how to be happier healthier Saner more creative more successful and more productivity backbiting superficial chaotic uh-huh predictable fundamentally insane world. I'm Liz craft a TV writer and producer living in L. A. and with me is my high school friend and Writing Partner Sarah. That's me me Sarah Spain on this podcast. We talk about being writers in Hollywood how we balance a career and friendship and how to survive the war of attrition that is life in Los Angeles happy new New Year in honor of being twenty twenty and today's episode. We are going to reveal our team. Seem for twenty twenty. We love a a good theme. Yes we do then in take a hike. I'm going to share three healthy kitchen action items to help you ring in the New Year. And if you're travelling in twenty twenty twenty. This week's Hollywood hack will improve your visit to Los Angeles or any sprawling city but first Sarah we have an update. Yes Claire wrote in then she said thank you so much for addressing the season of failure. It's so funny I had never thought of it that way but it is such a better way to look at it then thinking I'm in a Rut as an actor. It is so easy to feel like a failure when the phone isn't ringing and I get down on myself so much sometimes also when people always ask about real jobs. Oddly when I feel the worst about myself is usually during marathon training. I run the New York City Marathon every year. Raising money for Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center in memory of my mom in my mind. I know I'm doing something extraordinary and yet I always feel like I'm not doing enough for raising enough money so last year. I had an idea I put up a whiteboard word in my room and at the end of every day I would write a list of things I did. Well that day. I had to fill the board every day even if it was just I put on pants today or I brushed. My teeth really did work to be able to see good things visually. It's been able to help some of my friends as well when they are in a depressive state or just down down on themselves in general so I wanted to share such a great idea. Good thank you Claire. She's referring to the episode when I was talking about failing on all fronts. Yes and I think you said season of failure. which is you know? We have our seasons of sacrifice. And sometimes you're in a season of failure and when you are in one of those seasons seasons as we all are and will be again at some point this whiteboard idea is so smart especially for people like me who are visual thinkers. Yes being able to see a full board of accomplishments. I really think that would help me and lots of other people. Yeah on Happier Gretchen. And I talk about Tada List List. This is like a daily toddle like a super sized. Yes yes so. Thanks Claire. Okay Sarah it's time for from the treadmill desks of in which we discuss. What's most pressing in our work psyches and this week? It's deciding on our team theme for Twenty twenty Monday Muster. I'm scared okay well last year. Our team theme was explode. Yes so first of all. How did we do on that? I mean we didn't I do horribly. We didn't explode. We grew but we didn't explode. Yes I think to explode you have to have a hit and it's really impossible bowl to Have any control over whether something is a hit or not in so many ways. Yeah it's like many elements must align in order A to explode. I still think it was a good theme because it was setting an intention absolutely I agree and I think we did more than we would have because we were like will we need to explode. That's our theme so I don't regret it as a theme agree. I totally agree. I think we accomplished an insane amount last year. All of it was really good in you know every conceivable way it's just explode is so you know we set a high bar. Yeah and that's good. We should we should Patterson's on the back okay. So moving forward looking to twenty twenty What's our priority this year? What do we want our theme to say about us as a a team? Well calm. We've been sort of talking about different areas that we want to kind of highlight and one on the keeps coming up is is just like a sense of calm right like in one thirty seven. We talked about staying out of the Spin Zone. Yeah Meeting the spinning Out Zone and that's something we really want to carry into twenty twenty. Yeah and I think it's just in general we're both trying to be healthier. Yeah you know physically the emotional every in every way were trying to be healthier. Yeah so an element of that definitely is good and I also think like we WANNA really like move forward on things and of course what we really want is a TV show on the air but even if we don't or whatever ideally we would end up with two on the air but if that doesn't happen we still want to move forward with other things like we wanna keep our career on a trajectory And the good thing is there are many things that we're really interested in and excited about so. I don't think that will be hard. But maintaining that APP focus Yes is an important part of our motto. Yeah one thing you've been talking about which I think is great not worrying so much about the outcome but focusing on the process. Yeah you know my dad says enjoy the process and as much as I say. It's hard to do but you're leading the charge John that it's funny because Gretchen calls you her sister the sage but I think I think it's genetic I think you get it from Your Dad. He has so many wise. So and that's a big one. Yes you know because you can't control outcome you can only control the experience of what you're doing. Yes and it's so so important like we just WanNa have nice live. We do it matters. So a few options Forward Com forward recall. You know it sounds like a political hunting. It sounds a little tame yeah might be like exploit was so exciting. Forward Com is a little boring. I don't like a lot of these things as we've discussed them. They all sound a little like stayed men and I do you think we want the year to be exciting in the way our explode year was citing. Yes one that you suggested which we're not gonNA choose but I appreciated needed as your partner was slog twenty twenty because it feels like we have so much we have to slog through right now not the best attitude two to four team motto. I would probably be very practical today. One thing one word that I think would be great to have in the motto is future. Yes because you know. I've talked a lot with Adam about. I WANNA step step into the future. Yeah like his job. I feel he stepping into the future. And it's very exciting and I want to step into the future. We'll in our industry is going things through so much upheaval and change right now. It really is a time where you have to be conscious of where things are going and why they're going that way and and like being part of that or you're just GonNa get like stomped on. Yes you have to embrace change you you you just have to. So I'm fully on board. I think that's one. That's just more interesting. I mean who wants to do the same old shit all the time true. Yeah like that's part of why we are are TV writers and producers. Yes we like change. We feel like we don't but we do we. And that's an interest. It's in our as we've discussed. Many times are fiction. PODCAST is it's very future oriented. Yes and it's a way to do. All of the things is that we love in like an even more kind of exciting striving environment. So Liz you actually came up with our motto and I love it. I'm very excited about our motto. This year it's very different from explode very very different than any motto. We've had really yes so here. It is time hike into the future. This is a motto. I have to say the only work for us right. A lot of people you know can probably embrace explode or other mottos that we've had even ride the dragon but I feel like the hiking thing is very craft feigns specific because it's a thing that like like we do together that is both like it's four ourselves in so many ways for our health for our mental health. It's also like an incredibly productive thing we do. We get so much work done when we hike so much work done. It's really like so when we say hike it's like about synapses synapses. Firing yes in a great way and what I like about it is that it's like were were moving uphill yes like. We aren't just walking into the the future. Like I mentioned step into the future of slog. It's not a song but it is on hike. We are hiking uphill strong into the future. It's never ending either. It's like endless path into the future. And there's an implication of adventure. Yes it's not like a little stayed hike. Ghana Donna were. Were like off roading a little. Yes we're pioneers hiking. Yes so I'm excited. Aided about it yeah. It's really cool me too like walking sticks. I'm excited to hike into the future with you me too. Liz Hike together other do you have a motto for Twenty Twenty. What is it we WANNA know? Email us or send us a voice memo to happier in Hollywood gmail.com coming up. We've got to take a hike that involves shoe melt but first this break Liz. I'm wearing a third love for there. Are you wearing a third liberal. I am wearing third. We love our third love broad design with measurements from millions of women. Their Bra all styles are made to fit your life. They have over eighty bra sizes but know that the only one that matters is yours. Over fifteen million women have taken thirdlove's fit fit finder quiz to date. It's actually fun and takes less than a minute to complete third. Love helps you identify your breast size and shape and find styles that fit your body and and then they send it to your house. It's so easy you get sixty days to wear it wash it and put it to the test and if you don't love it return it and third love will wash. I should and donate it to a woman in need third. Love knows there's a perfect bra for everyone. So right now they are offering our listeners. Fifteen percent off your first order go to third third loved dot com slash. Hollywood now to find your perfect fitting BRA and get fifteen percent off your first purchase. That's third love dot com slash Hollywood for fifteen percent off today. Okay Sarah it is time for. Take a hike speaking of hiking in which we discuss mental physical or spiritual health and today we we are talking about our physical health. Yes specifically your healthy new Vegan Diet. Yes now I don't WanNa get too to like preachy about my diet but I do think like people very often wanNA make small changes. Yes in the way that they're eating and feel overwhelmed. Yes so we thought it would be fun to share three very simple things that I've been doing that other people might also want to do if it's something that you're interested arrested and you don't have to go like full Vegan. These are just three simple healthy things. Yes I think this is really interesting as a non viga okay. So what's the first easy thing. People can do okay so the first thing is putting forbidden rice in a salad first of all what is forbidden okay so forbidden rice. It's called also black Rice or emperors. Rice it has tons of antioxidants lots of nutritional value and it's delicious. It has kind of a a nutty flavor it has a real texture in your mouth. It doesn't it's not like soft and mushy and for me. The thing that can make a salad a meal as opposed to just like a side side dish is having it just be like hardier and more filling and forbidden rice and a salad is so delicious and like violet. ELLIOT LOVES SALADS WHICH IS ONE But if I put Forbidden Righteousness Alad. She will slug it down but some Italian dressing and forbidden rice and a salad. And it's like a a full dinner for her and she's thrilled and I love it so for me. It really makes me actually enjoy eating salads and as you're writing partner yeah. I can attest that you have not always enjoyed salads. I have not now. My question is so I assume this is much healthier than regular rice. Certainly much healthier than White Rice and yes. I think any grain that isn't super processed is excellent and a salad whether it's keen Wa millet barley early forbidden rice happens to be my very favorite. Okay got it okay. What's the second thing we can try? Okay lots of people are trying non dairy milk now now cashew almond milk soy milk milk. Yes so for people who are interested in trying to make it at home. I I feel like that bar. There's a big barrier for doing that like you need nutbag. You need this you need that. It's messy book so turns turns out cashew. Milk is crazy easy to make. And it's also the creepiest of all of the milk's I'll put a recipe on our facebook group and In the show notes. But it's like nick unbelievably simple to make cashew milk. You Soak One cup of cashews for a couple of hours you can soak them overnight. That's fine you can mix in some walnuts if you want same recipe one cup you rinse them off after you soak them put them in a blender with two cups of water blended a little bit you know until it's like well blended then add two more cups of water and whatever you want to add. I love to put in put in like three dates or cinnamon and You can put in Maple Syrup you can have it be really plane or you can kind of sweeten it up. Is waiting it up because I make cheese pudding violet with it and it's like delicious and then you blend it and that's it you don't have to squeeze it through a nut bag you don't have to do anything complicated and you can store it in the fridge. I leave mine in my fridge for like a week. Use your our own judgement. But it's so easy you literally just need a good blender water and cashews and it makes a good amount. Yes it makes. I mean however much water you put in but one cup of nuts two four cups of water. Wow that's delicious starts impressive making your own milk. That's taking it to the next level except it's easy easy I think like that's the thing it's actually not impressive. Seems impressive but it's actually easy. Okay what is the third thing when we can all try okay so the third thing. I'm obsessed with my rebel smart oven because it just has all of these different features that you know can dehydrate. Like I've been dehydrating eating apples and violet just shows them down in the morning before I can even put them in her lunch box but the really fun thing we've been doing his air frying French fries and you can get just simple air fryers and probably I'm like the last person on this train You can get very simple air fires or you can get something like my brother smart of an which I got fifty percent off so look into that and it proves and it does all these amazing things but air frying French. Fries is so simple like it's just so so simple you cut them into you know French fries shapes or whatever shape you want them from wedges too long French fry ish things and then I you toss mine and a little bit of tea seed oil because she seed oil has a high smoke point with a little bit of salts and then you put them in then for twenty minutes in my Air Fryer you know check your specific air fire for times etc but and temperatures. It's just so easy and then violent can have a snack that doesn't always feel super healthy Because I don't think like we can't just always constantly eat super healthy things right. This is a way way to have something that isn't as healthy but it's much healthier than having fries from a fast food restaurant obviously and they're delicious like I think the key he has to not feel like you're sacrificing anything uh-huh and if you don't feel like you're sacrificing anything. You're much more likely to kind of integrate these things in your life so these are three things that I just. I love love more. I can say that everything you make ends up being very tasty so my approves coming up a travel. Hollywood hack but I this break quick. Okay Liz it's time for this week's Hollywood hack. If you're coming to Los Angelis stay in two different hotels one on the west side and one on the east side and Sarah. We got this hack from our facebook group A member of our facebook group group was going to come visit. La and posted asking people. Where should I stay? And all these people started responding. You should should stay in two different hotels because Los Angeles is so vast that if you're staying in Hollywood and you WanNa go visit Venice beach. It's I mean it can take you an hour and a half to get there easily and then that's like your whole day is gone but if you're staying in Santa Monica Venice is like ten minutes away. Do all the westside aside stuff. The beach do whatever yes. And then. When you stay on the east side you can go to museums and you can go downtown and you can you know go to the The stars you know the Hollywood walk of fame and it'll just make your trip so much more enjoyable to have a home. Base is near the things you want to go to if you're visiting any sprawling city especially when the dozen have great public transportation. This is such a great idea it plus I think it's just it's fun to stay in two different parts of town is even if you're in New York like Soho feels completely different from the upper west side so anyway it's a fun idea it'll will save you time it'll save you hassle. You'll just have a better trip. Yes so thank you facebook group for that wonderful suggestion. Yes and that's it for this episode of Happier Hollywood. We love to hear from you. Email us or send us a voice memo to happier in Hollywood email dot com. Thanks for listening and please subscribe if you haven't already thank you to our executive producer. The Amazing Chuck Reed. Thanks to everyone cola sound you can follow them on Instagram at send colas sound and thank you to everybody at kings thirteen and as always thank you to Gretchen Rubin. Happier in Hollywood is part of the honored project. Check out the other anwer project. podcasts happier with Gretchen Rubin side-hustle school and do the thing from thirties. Melissa Urban Get in touch on Instagram Atlas Craft and Sarah is at US S. Fain we also have a facebook group searched for happier in Hollywood on facebook to join the conversation until next week. I'm Sarah Fain and I'm Liz craft thanks for joining. It's a fun job and enjoy it heart. How do you want some throat coat? We just need to fill up the water I feel too Lazy uh-huh from the onward project.
The "7 Day COVID-19 Crash"
"Oh okay so good news is that it's sounding way better. Bad News is. There is a considerable amount of rust in my microphone. Wake in it's like what do you mean in the microphone? I Dunno what's producer like. It's part acceler cable. Like in its. But like in it's a you're listening to shortwave from NPR. Mattie sify here in today I'm joined by science correspondent Jeff Brumfield harder Mattie. Hey Jeff so. You've been looking into a really puzzling feature of some cases of Cova nineteen. Yeah I don't think there's really a medical term for it but we'll just call it the seven day crash. Basically what happens? Is this when somebody gets Cova? At first they may not feel sick at all but pretty soon most people start to develop these symptoms. We've been hearing about fever. Chill maybe at dry cough and this stuff can go on for days and it can get pretty bad but for subset of these patients. They may start to feel a little better like they're turning a corner and then suddenly they get worse. Their lungs started deteriorate really quickly and they can end up in the ICU on a ventilator or even die and what you found in your reporting is that in some of these cases it might not be the virus directly. That's causing this crash. That's right it may actually be the immune system an overreaction to the steadily virus that makes people even sicker so today on the show. We're going to talk about why some people with Kovic nineteen go downhill so quickly and how a certain set of drugs might be able to help. Okay Jeff so we're talking about how the immune system can make some cases of Kovic worse. Where do we start well? I think we should start with disclosure. Which is the you're the one with a PhD microbiology. Immunology and I on the other hand report on stuff like nuclear physics. This is not my strong suit. Jeff you are trying so hard and you've learned so much well I have. I've learned a lot. I mean like every other reporter in. Npr I've been drafted into covering the corona virus. And as I started talking to doctors started hearing about this sudden seven day crash that we are talking about C of kind of variable course where some people they come in they get better and then they go home and then there are others who come in. They get Stabilized Okay and they may do okay but then they worsen again at about the five to seven day mark. So that's Michelle in gone. She's chief of critical care at the MONTEFIORE medical center in the Bronx. She's right there on the front lines. Some of these patients were seeing very high. Fever is highest one. Oh nine one oh nine. Like I legitimately didn't know that was possible. That's like forty to forty two degrees Celsius. That's no joke. No and a lot of these patients end up on a ventilator and some don't make it so I started looking into what's going on like as I said I'm a physics nerd not a biologist and as someone who doesn't really know this stuff it just seemed weird that people could stabilize. Maybe even start to feel better for a little while and then suddenly have such a catastrophic term for the worst and pretty soon I started hearing this term from researchers and doctors some of these patients they think are suffering from something called a site kind storm. Yes sign storm. Okay Fun fact for a not fun. Situation Jeff cited Cranston was almost the name of my immunology department softball team. I honestly didn't know there were enough. Immunologist out there to have like a softball league okay. There are many and we're very athletic. Surprisingly I'll say well look since you're the one who knows about side of storms. Why don't you explain it? Okay okay so basically and I mean basic goalie basic is good yes when the body gets infected by a virus your immune system is activated and sometimes the first immune cells on the scene. They need backup. And so they release these Little Messenger. Proteins called CYTOKINES. It's like a little cry for help that brings other immune cells in to fight the infection. Like T. CELLS. For example white blood cells that are particularly good at killing cells infected with virus. You still with Jeff. Yeah yes so basically. You're just saying that. Like decided kinds are like the key. To how all these immune cells talk to each other basically yeah normally the coordination of these little signals. These cytokines are really really tightly controlled but sometimes for reasons that we don't totally understand immune cells kind of get stuck in this cycle putting out more and more signs calling more and more other immune cells to an area lots of inflammation that in this case. Really messes up your lungs and makes you even sicker than you were before right and you know an immunologist that I spoke to Jessica Camerman the Ben Arroyo Research Institute in Seattle. It's been my lifelong dream to be on. Npr She laid out. This nice analogy a matching. Your body is like a big building and the viruses like a fire that breaks out in that building and the cited kinds are kinda like the fire alarm so inside kind storm. It's like the smoke alarm. Never turns off and you keep having Firefighters are coming coming coming. They're spraying water everywhere. Knocking down doors with their axes. Doing all this damage and they can keep doing damage even after the fire is out even if the virus is nearly extinguished so viruses can cause storms like this. It's rare but the common flu can cause some patients to experience site a kind storms. And there's some evidence that happens during other corona virus infections like the original SARS patients. It also looks like it may be happening with this corona virus that causes cove. Okay Jeff these are very interesting ideas. But this is shortwave. So gimme data okay. So as we've discussed before on this show corona virus research is moving really really quickly and a lot of it is still an unpaid reviewed places like even twitter but we do have case reports out of Europe and China and hammer man says the in those reports patients do show signs of a storm says some of those are very high levels of some of these cytokines in the blood of patients. There's other also other clinical laboratory measures of cytokine storm that are looked at that have been associated with this disease that are also being seen and hammer man says another clue actually be those weird seven day crashes so it turns out it takes about a week for the body to really build up. Its T. cells those cells. You talked about earlier. They're really good at fighting viruses so it may be that you need to wait until actually there's a sufficient immune response going on that thanking Dr. This sign storm. Okay all right. This sounds like it could be real to me. Jeff circumstantial but maybe real. Yeah and I mean look. I'm a journalist. I'm not a scientist by the other thing. I find really compelling. Is that all the scientists. I've spoken to say this just kind of make sense like they really think it's happening in fact there's a long running theory that the nineteen eighteen flu actually killed young and healthy people in the same way with these sites. Kind storms wild okay. So is there some way to stop these storms from happening? Jeff yes or at least there might be so it turns out that one of the types of cytokines one of the types of proteins that appears to be showing up a lot in these patients is called. Interleukin six or I'll six short who? Yeah that's a famous one like immunology circles. It does all kinds of stuff. Your body makes it when you have an infection or when you damage tissue like if you had a really bad burn but when I all six production is outta whack. It can lead to autoimmune diseases which also involved the body kind of attacking itself right and that's why people have developed drugs. That can block that site a kind. I'll sex basically. It's to treat those autoimmune diseases like rheumatoid arthritis for example right. Randy Krahn is at the University of Alabama Birmingham and he treats autoimmune disease in kids. These drugs and my opinion have been one of the greatest achievements in medicine. Last couple decades is the belly to target individual or few pro inflammatory cytokines. That cause disease now. These drugs are officially just for autoimmune disorders. But Krahn thinks they can be used in some patients who have covered nineteen. And it's not gonNA help the eighty five year old with hypertension and diabetes. It's just not but for those who don't have chronic underlying diseases and even for some of those who do is just maybe not a severe storm it will. It could potentially help them. Krahn thinks that medicines like corticosteroids will help as well and he thinks they're some combination of these drugs that will calm the immune system down in potentially save lives. I think in a month or two. We're going to be able to help patients with cove in nineteen who were dying from side of storms and potentially bring them tally right down. Okay but we jeff I just WANNA take a step back here because what you're talking about in giving these powerful drugs is kind of turning down the immune system or part of it and we know that this is a really nasty virus that we need our immune system for. That's exactly right Mattie disagreeing with you at all I mean. This is the big risk of these therapies. Honestly the best defense humans have if they catch corona virus. At least right now is the immune system. Most of us who will get sick. We'll stay at home. We'll let our bodies work to clear the virus and we'll get better on our own so the idea that you'd turn down that system just when people are at their sickest it's really really dangerous and that kind of brings us to the last scientist. I want you to hear from. His name is Tobias Hall. He's Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center in New York City and he is really worried about what could go wrong. What is that? The infection could get worse. It could potentially increase the amount of virus in the body and in the loves another one hall says is the possibility of a secondary infection like a bacteria or a fungus that takes advantage of the weak immune system and ends up making the patient even sicker. Right right I don't want be a Debbie Downer but I think we have to be humble and just not assume that things are going to work and so basically Jeff. What this means is. We need more science right. We need rigorous studies to see when these drugs can help and who they can help right. I'm nodding for my pillow for Matty. Exactly the good news is that there are studies there well underway and they should give results in months rather than years. But I also have to tell you. I've spoken to doctors who are going ahead and trying to treat patients with these drugs now because you know they don't have a lot of options so they're being selective as they can and as careful as they can and one of those doctors is actually the guy you just heard talking about how dangerous this treatment could be to buy his whole He's there in New York. Where hundreds of people have been dying each day and despite his fears he is giving patients these drugs because the alternative is a ventilator and maybe even death okay. Jeff I appreciate you. Thank you for bringing us the story. Your Walk Medi. This episode was produced by Rebecca Ramirez and edited by Viet Lay. Emily von check the facts. I'm your host. Madison in this shortwave from NPR. See next week.
Surgery: Stories about operations
"<music> science story n._y._u. Scientists they thought well figured get it out. It was that golden moment because science was on my side. Hey everybody welcome to the story collider where we bring you true personal stories about science. I'm your host aaron aaron barker and this week were presenting stories about surgery. According to the american board of surgery a surgeon will on average perform three hundred ninety eight surgeries per year seems like a lot right and something that i think some of us don't really think about apart for medical surgeons. Many scientists also we'll have reason to perform surgery as part of their work so while today's stories are both about surgery they come from two very different surgeons operating on two very different impatience in very different situations. Our first story is from pollock's is recorded in october twenty eighteen caveat in new york city. The show was presented in collaboration with rock e._d._u. e._s._p._n. B.'s cy out twenty eighteen conference and i never really liked surgery days. I'm good at it. I'm very good asset. I spent gears of long long days being taught observing practicing being critiqued and honing my skills so i'm no i'm good. That's it but something in could always go wrong. I'm only human and so i'd wake up in the morning of surgery day with dry mouth. That wouldn't go away all day and i couldn't have any coffee because my hands would shake and also i didn't want to have to stop m._p. In the middle eliminates ten hour long procedure and i would make myself eat breakfast though because i needed to be alert uh and strong and not feel dizzy and so i would make sure that i had my little routine <hes> to steal myself for the day i set the timer for five minutes. I hit my knee into the button gotten to turn on the water and run wo wo motor of my hands i pull open the sterile metal packet and pull out the scrub brush. It's covered in a in a sort of pinky soap. That smells like chemicals and i start to scrub in. I use a bristle side. I on on the back of my hands and the size of my fingers and i scrub twenty times on the left side of my left index finger and then on the back and then on the right side and and so uncovering every surface of my hand twenty times on my palms and my fingertips the sensitive skin i switched to the sponge side and i scrub the same name i scrub all the way up to my elbows until my mom's already aching and i haven't even started the day yet then i rinse my hands off. The time it goes is off the same time. I've got this down to a fine out. I gone up put on my gloves. Go to help set up my colleagues already chatting about his weekend plans and unpacking instruments. My research assistant to is his first day in surgery. He's a little nervous but but excited to learn and ready to help and there's a monkey on the table wrapped in blankets kitts and draped with a sterile sheet his head shaved. I'm swamped with iden- to make it sterile so it's yellow. He looks tiny onto the i know this monkey. I've worked with him for for a couple of years now. Teaching him a complex memory task <hes> so complex only primates can really do it <hes> and working toward the goal of finding out something that will help to to find a prevention or maybe even cure for alzheimer's disease or dementia. I care about him because i've spent hours is working with him over those years and because he's expensive but i also just care about him. It's hard not to form a bond after you spend that much time and so we need a full team of people to take care of this little guy hi my colleague and i will do the surgery my r._a. Will assist this to veteran technicians just to do the anesthesia just to make sure that everything everything is okay and there's a veterinarian in the room just to the starter surgery just to oversee make sure that everything goes smoothly and so we're ready to go. I'm i'm on my sought to help. Unpack the instruments. I opened the sterile packs and i took the instruments onto the steel table covered with a sterile white sheet forceps scissors uses he missed dot clamps a scalpel handle a scalpel blade which is in one of those metal packets to i open it. I hold the scalpel blade properly in a pair of clamps on the handle. I click them together and then i drive the point of the scalpel straight into the end. Take my right index finger. I don't have time to think i grabbed my finger and i swing away from the sterile table because i know that it won't be sterile. If i bleed on my blood is full of millions of little pathogens so instead i bleed down the wall and on the floor and my finger is gushing blood and then i go next tool pasok last politician and through the open door into the prep room because like any good session. I'm i'm kinda. Squeamish and i usually pass out when i cut my hands. My colleague sees me through the open door sitting on the floor law head between my knees next to a red clinical waste trashcan and says you're right i say i will oh the i just need to sit here until i start feeling like i'm gonna pass out and then <hes> and then i'll screw up back in and i'll come and help and he says fine i've got this and and the veterinarian says you're gonna have to scrub that and i say i know i know i'm not so anymore. I just have to sit here because i feel really faint and she says no. You're going to have to scrub that now. I'm through my hayes. I realized what she means. Some some rhesus monkeys have a virus herpes virus. It's a hippies virus not unlike the herpes viruses that calls cold sores or genital warts and humans and it causes conjunctiva isis in monkeys and it can make them feel kind of run down <hes>. I'm like human viruses is pass through fluid contacts unlike human hep is viruses is incurable but unlike human in her piece viruses if it gets into a human and it crosses the blood brain barrier into the central nervous system can cause viral encephalitis and the person could die by and there's a protocol in place for this and the first part of the protocol involves scrubbing the affected area for fifteen minutes so she says to me. You're gonna have to scrub that for fifty minutes right now and i don't think i can i feel really faint and she says do you give me your consent to scrub it for you and somewhere in the back of my brain a little voice says you don't need this. The scalpel blade was sterile but i'm we can i move z. and she's a veterinarian and she must be right and so i say okay okay and so she takes me gently by the hand and leads me over to the scrub sink and she starts scrub my hands she opens one of those brushes and she takes takes it out. She runs the water and she starts to scrub the tip of my finger. My open wound with the bristle sides. I don't remember the next par but i have it on the authority that i was screaming at the top of my lungs and when when i come to my senses i'm doubled over the metal scrubbed sync with my head on the cool stainless steel and one of the veterinarians one of the vet techs is holding me up by shoulders so i don't collapse onto the floor. I'm vaguely aware that surgery is still going on behind me with the door open and oh gosh awed my i._r._a. Is his first day and i'm worried about him. I'm deeply embarrassed by guess. Darrelle animal sounds that are coming out of my mouth and i'm pissed because i don't need this. We haven't even touched the monkey yet. Scalpel blade was sterile and this is not necessary and thankfully at this point. The vet has switched to using the sponge side. I say in a very quiet voice think someone could get me a so. They get me me a chair and she's scrubs me for another ten minutes. I just kind of sit at this point and eventually she stops tens of the woods. I wrap my bloody flayed open fingertip in a paper towel. I strip off my sweat stained surgical gown and i go to employee health. There's one person in employee health who knows what to do if someone has an exposure to herpes virus she he knows to call the c._d._c. She knows to take blood from you. Get someone to take blood from the monkey on swab from you swap from the monkey and send it all off and give view a two week course antivirals just in case something should happen and i find her and she says why you here and i turano tell what happened and she said yet. You don't need to be here. There is zero chance that you have happy virus and she sends me away. I never even occurs to me to question whether i should go back to surgery. There's no one what else to do it. My colleague condo on his own. It's my r._a.'s first day. Everyone else is running the anesthesia. We're a small team and everyone has that part so i go back to the unit and i try and get in on the icon because is a fingerprint reader and i've destroyed my fingerprints. I hesitate. It's going to be a long day. I have at least eight hours astounding without time to p. I'm going to be in pain. I'm probably going to make it worse by handling medical instruments probably going to bleed inside my surgical gloves and have to replace ace them but the pain that i'm going to go through. It's nothing compared with a headache. The monkeys going to have when he wakes up and who else is going to sit with him hours after surgery to make sure that he's okay and somebody has to do this work tuck and if it has to be somebody should be me and it should be my team should be people who are so well trained and so attentive and he cares so much that they'll scrape the shit out of the end of someone's finger just to make sure they don't get beaver iris and so i get security to let me in uh and i scrub in again and i go to work. Thank you back. That was paula. Craxton hall is one of you are amazing story. Glider producers host here new york as well as a neuroscientist a musician and an open water swimmer. She earned her p._h._d. From the university fifty of oxford before moving to new york to run a neuroscience lab she is now senior manager for education programs at columbia university's akron institute. She is also so the flattest in alternative rock band marlow gray and nerdy rock band pavlov's dogs. The swimming is apparently for fun. Today's episode is supported by. I indeed when it comes to hiring you. Don't have time to waste. You need help getting to your shortlist qualified candidates fast. That's why you need indeed dot com post just a job in minutes set up screener questions then zero in on qualified candidates using an intuitive online dashboard and you need to hire fast accelerate your results with sponsor jobs. New users can try for free at indeed dot com slash podcast. That's indeed dot com. Slash podcast terms conditions and quality standards hundreds apply before we continue. I wanna remind everyone that we have some exciting changes coming to the story glider podcast next month. Stay tuned for the the big reveal in the meantime. Do you have questions about story glider. Maybe you'd like to know how the show is made or where we find the stories or maybe of a question about your favorite storyteller whatever they may be sin as your questions to contact at story quieter dot org will answer them here on the podcast during a special bonus episode were planning in for september. That's contact at story quieter dot org. We're also revamping our patriot community this fall if you're not familiar with patriot patriot dot com it's a place where you can sign up to donate a small amount every month to story quieter were other nonprofits or projects and in return you receive bonus content or awards as we think our offerings this fall. I'd like to hear more about what you as. Our listeners might be excited about. Would you be psyched to get bonus episodes featuring featuring previously unreleased stories or maybe bonus episodes with behind the scenes content in storytelling crap discussions. Maybe follow up interviews with pass storytellers. Maybe you'd like to get access to livestream for live shows around the world or an online community where you can connect and chat about the stories maybe are all about those one time physical rewards awards <laughter> like t shirts posters or mugs or maybe there's something else. We haven't even thought of yet. Let us know at contacted story. Quieter dot org were excited to hear from you. Our next story today is from bhuvnesh saying it was recorded in december twenty eighteen at the mortimer biesecker mun research center auditorium here in new york. The show always presented in collaboration with the memorial sloan kettering cancer center goodness goodness. If i can talk after all that anger i thank both miramar and for all the advice they gave they said don't don't have more than one drink. No comment said don't grab the microphone or pull it around no comment. They said don't don't use props ed. Can i have my first set of slides. Please and going to have to use props. I'm sorry you have to cut to cure. That was the mantra. That was the central focus of all of my surgical blue training. That's what i was being taught. When i first met alice had finished four years of medical school had finished six six years of residency training and i was deep into a two and a half year fellowship a memorial sloan kettering so the way that i thought about my role surgeon was pretty well established. I knew i knew my job. My job was of course to cut to cure aw that's what i was meant to do now. Alice had cancer the tongue and she was very atypical pickles so first off she was very young she was only thirty six and most people who have tongue cancer or older and they tend to be smokers and drinkers and alice. This clearly was not so the made her different. There was actually one other thing that made her different alice was pregnant. It's okay. It's gonna be tough. I'm sorry so as a walked into a room. She was talking to her husband. She was going over the details of everything that he needed to do. While she was in the hospital as i washed she was confident she was focused. She was completely in control of everything that was going on in the room. So i did what i had done so many times before i started to take her history. I started to fill out the paperwork that was required to get the get her ready for surgery as a fellow. That was my job and that's what i needed to do and of course as i i did this. I kept my interaction professionals surgical officiant. Let me get this done so we can move onto the really important and stuff which is the actual operation alice though she wasn't having any of that she wanted much more than this fact phil surgical interaction and you see alice was a real force and i quickly realized that had no choice but to sit and talk with her cheap. There was no other opportunity for me and so we ended up talking for a while and when we first started talking all i can think was piss is so inefficient. I have so much other work to do but as we talked. Her guards came down as i think back sort of mine. She told me about her two year old son she told me about her pregnancy and i told her about my family you see i was about the same age i also had two year old son and my wife and i were expecting our second child so the similarities obvious and for for those reasons for many many more we're obviously completely connected and so we kept talking until her husband finally left the room and when he did her voice cracked and i looked at her and they were sure terror in her eyes. She bought back her tears. She said to me that you had to live to live because she had to take care of her son and she has to take care of her unborn child. This situation was clearly not familiar to her her. She was used to being in control. She was trying to hold on. She was trying to say strong shoes. He's trying not to show her fear so that her husband wouldn't worry interaction really affected me and i really didn't understand why the one thing i knew at the end of that though is i had to make sure that alice was going to be okay at that point. What that meant to me was that i had to make sure that her surgery went perfectly. The next day alice came into the operating room and everyone one was drawn to her personality. Her situation really broke through even the hardest in the room couldn't help but be drawn in and completely connected connected to her and at some point the room completely became silent. Everybody knew what was at stake. Everybody was doing their part to make sure that alice was going to be okay and that she did well normal banter and the room wasn't there room fell completely -pletely silent. You can hear a pin drop in that room. I was hiding in a corner as going over the steps of the operation in my head now asami and she called out and she asked me to come over was i did desperately tried and not to make eye contact with her. Maybe i didn't want her to see the concern that was in my eyes or maybe i didn't wanna see the fear that we're in her eyes but else was a forest of had no choice. I walked over to the table and a held her hand. You as i did from behind my mask said alice nori. Everything's gonna be okay. Hey everything will be okay. Those words completely reassured her and i felt her relax lacks and as she went off to sleep she thanked everyone. We already alice. I needed a complicated five hour operation. This evolved taking part of her tongue. It involves taking out the lymph nodes in her neck and as i as a fellow my responsibility was to help the attending surgeon and learn about the procedure in the process but on that day instead of assisting i slowly took over. Nobody stopped me you see this was alice and it was my job to make her better. There wasn't anyone in the world was going to do better than me that day. The surgery that day at flowed like our work the room was absorbed. Everybody was watching the brushstrokes as the instruments were moving across the field every structure even those that we normally don't even think about were carefully identified in preserved at the end cancer was completely removed. All the margins were clear. The surgical field neal was flawless and even my typically very harsh and very judgmental attending had to stop and take notice on that day i was perfect. So of course we celebrated the surgical success with allison family. We all felt that a weight had been lifted and a sense of order was somehow restored to no one's surprise alice's says recovery went way ahead of schedule. She was eating and speaking normally in two days she was out of the hospital and four days and a week later she flew home with other family and went back to her normal life later as i thought about what had just happened i felt completely completely satisfied a felt like i had done my job and no doubt in my mind could alison her family would now be okay i had cut a- and of course now them meant that alice would be cured and that's what i expect in fact that's what everyone expected elected a few months past are still a fellow is actively involved in my training under the heavy workload of the day and the countless surgery that i was performing alice slowly became a distant memory. May experience is with her though left me with a strong sense. The surgery was indeed my primary purpose i remain focused towards perfecting affecting the precision and the efficiency of using cold steel to best care for the patients that i was treating so one day after a long case in the operating room i was making rounds on the hospital floor and older older woman came running across the floor and as i watched her i saw she was hiding something under her coat. Vote look oeser. She was hiding a baby under her coat. Now the hospital can be very dangerous place for babies so i ran after her with a sense of urgency z. and as i got to the room where she was going in i had a whole lecture ready for her to say why she was doing this and how dangerous she was is but when i walked in my eyes were drawn to this gaunt and frail woman sitting in a hospital bed she was in obvious pain. She was having trouble breathing. She's gasping for air. Her hair was frazzle. Their eyes barely open but when she saw me she perked up and she smiled at first. I didn't recognize her but when i looked in her eyes realize who she was. I felt my knees. Buckle room started spinning and a half to steady myself. They're in the bed was alice. She was barely recognizable. The woman had been running across the floor was a mother and the baby was your six month six week old son you that her mother was bringing to be with her. Alice's alice's cancer had unfortunately progressed seen this look before i knew exactly what it meant and i saw analysis is she also realized what was going on. Alice was dying. I was in complete shock completely overwhelmed overwhelmed. I remember running out of the room and somehow find my way to a bathroom and they lacked the door and then it completely broke down. I cried for felt like ours and at that moment of began to replay every we step analysis care every step of our operation. I did everything right in fact. I did everything perfectly. Why was she here when finally gathered myself. I washed away any evidence. I was crying. I put on a brave face when i got to a take. A deep breath and i went in and alice was really a happy to see me. I just couldn't figure out why i was so disappointed in myself. You've so hit my shame as we talked and fill me in on what had happened. She had flown home. Unfortunately the pathology from the surgery has shown that the cancer has brought to the lymph nodes because of this she had to endure seven weeks a very very damaging and debilitating radiation therapy but despite this aggressive treatment the cancer had spread to her lungs and at this point point at this point a knew that there was absolutely no hope for curing her as i sat in a room i really struggled to contained munitions alice us on the other hand. She was as strong as ever. She's completely focused. She told me she had one goal and she wanted my heart to stay alive long enough to reach that goal she wanted to write letters make videos so that's her sons could read those letters and watch the videos for each of their birthdays until she until they turned eighteen years old. What you wanted to do was make sure that her son's new their mother. She wanted one of them to appreciate how much she loved them and even though she wasn't going to be there she wanted to make sure that there was somehow somehow taking care of over the next few days. I checked on alice regularly every free minute i had and did and everything i could to help her. Stay alive. She was so so strong the levels levels over pain unimaginable but she refused to take any pain medications because she wanted to stay focused and alert enough so that she could write letters and make videos for her sons. I often watched her from outside her room. I saw her smiling and joking into the camera. She was putting on a brave brave face. Her sons would see her in a good way as she shared her feelings advice. She looked into the camera as if though she was looking at her boys i really prayed that boy you see here is there were so full of hope and smile that was so infectious and not the obvious pain and sorrow that she was desperately desperately trying to hide the time for me with alice was incredibly challenging a really began to think i had made a mistake. I felt i had failed and that was difficult for me to overcome. We'll see alice. She somehow knew exactly what i was thinking in the late one night. We're we're talking. She paused. She looked up at me. She took a hold of my hand and she told me it's okay. It's okay she told me how much appreciate it everything i had done for her and especially the time that i had spent with her and how much she valued the care the given to her almost as if so she can read my mind she reassured me and she asked me to take care of others like i had taken care of her her words powerful there were healing much more with shows in any scalpels medicine that i had that could give her you know at that moment instead of me taking care of her. She was actually taking care of me. Even at the end she felt better by making sure that those around her. We're taking care of including me so through sheer will over the next three days. Alice made oliver liver videos completed oliver letters. I don't think you'll ever appreciate how difficult difficult this was for her to do. And when she finished she was elated and we all celebrated and a few hours later she died. I cried with her family and cried so many times after that. You just lost count hard to believe but that was over twenty years ago. It really feels like yesterday. This is actually the first time i've been able to share alice's story in public and i really felt the need to share her story because there's you see alice helped me appreciate the most important thing about being a doctor she made me realize it's not about precision and cold steel but rather about easing fears it isn't about cutting the cure about caring and using hugs and laughter to heal. I feel so privileged to to do what i do now but today i see my role as a surgeon very differently. It's my job to help people during their most difficult time. It's my job to try and help them heal. I guess it's my job to try. Try and do exactly what alice did for me. The that was bhubaneshwar. Bhuvnesh is an attending surgeon at memorial sloan kettering cancer center. He cared for over five thousand patients with cancer and his over twenty year career at the center he has helped to refine surgical techniques contributed to the improvements in cancer staging and has been involved in research that has dramatically changed the management of cancers of the head and neck region and lung not satisfied with available treatment treatment options bhuvnesh completed a p._h._d. Medical molecular biology to pursue lab research his laboratory work has led to the development of novel anticancer compounds that currently being optimized for use in the treatment of many different types of cancers. The story being shared with us occurred almost twenty years ago in was a defining moment in his career and in life. Thanks so much for sharing with his booth story. Glider is grateful for the support of the tiffany co foundation in of science sandbox assignments foundation on dacian initiative dedicated to engaging everyone with the process of science story gliders led by me artistic director aaron barker as well as executive director liz neely without without from deputy director nisa greenberg operations support manager lindsay cooper and the rest of our amazing team stories featured in today's podcast were from shows produced by me aaron barker along with catherine wu mariam's airing hallam the podcast is edited by senior podcast editor zoe saunders with podcasts editors joan chen and gwen hogan the theme music is by ghost special thanks to cy out memorial sloan kettering in caveat roasting these shows and to all the surgeons out there going the extra mile to be there for their patients no matter who they are thanks for listening and now i fought from geico motorcycle. It took fifteen minutes to take a spirit animal quiz online. Please be the cheetah the cheetah and learn your animal isn't the cheetah but the far less appealing blood fish come on gweat insult to injury. You could've used those fifteen blood vision minutes to switch your motorcycle insurance to geico geico fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on motorcycle insurance.
NFL 2019-2020 Season Preview!
"What's going on real sports fan on episode fourteen of the real underscore sports podcasts? We have our N._F._l.. Preview twenty nine thousand nine season football is finally here not really but we're GonNa talk about it so let's get it football football. It's a real sports fan. I am Jack Settlement from real underscore sports on snapchat a one million fouling paid the greatest snap account real under sports. Give it a five you haven't with me. Tonight is my longtime best friend Abe ran off Abe I we know football football football football baby. I love the energy. You've been a little low energy. I guess that's what happens when the Eagles reported to training camp today as well as twelve other teams like the energy's high right now yeah we're excited but before we get into it coming up in a few two weeks we will be playing in a basketball tournament together for team. Trust the process. I didn't get to name the team. Obviously I would have never let that happen but it's Virga 'cause it's for charity. Abe explain writes the flowers what lift balls all all right so jack and I <hes> seventeenth. I believe that we can we're playing in a charity basketball tournament very competitive for that matter <hes> with a couple of buddies who grew up with my brother included but more importantly <hes> the purpose of the tournament is to raise money for the Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center which is a very big <hes> cancer treatment and Research Institution in New York City was founded way before the nineteen hundreds as New Your Cancer Hospital <hes> so the point the point of the tournament is just to raise money as much as we can for cancer research and then go out there and having competitive day and inevitably bring home a ring <hes> Jack knifed him playing in this torment for what two three years now well. This is going to be my second third <hes> but most importantly we don't have a ring and <hes> we need your guys help to help us in terms of seating in in order to get that ring so the real spam. We're going to put the wink tomorrow of some sort that get two guys if the real sports fan could each donate a dollar five dollars fifty cents anything you're able to give <hes> to our team. Trust the process. <hes> jacks a little bit of an outlier here because we're all sixers fans on the team but he'll suck it up for a weekend for the good cause yeah. It's all for real 'cause they gave a sign. If you guys can just if everyone listening to this donated literally a dollar or five dollars we would hit our goal and it's all for really 'cause everyone has been affected by cancer somehow or some way or another and this is one of those times where you know we've we've we've always given back so much with giveaways and just providing free content that <hes> and one hundred percent of these Percy's obviously go traits charity and trade to cancer research so if you guys can will post an R. S. pods. It'll be Lincoln Bio. <hes> <hes> please. If you can ask your parents as your friends just donate. We'll give you special shoutouts on the pod. Whatever we need to do just let us know but please help support our team trust the process on our goal to solving cancer right <unk> as Jack said? There's there's a bigger there's a bigger picture than our team here. <hes> we like Jackson we've all been affected by cancer and if we WANNA personalizes a little bit however far we go in this tournament meant. I think we have a formidable team Jack. Wouldn't you agree. We've got we could use a big. Maybe that but I think we definitely have a competitive team. We've made it deep in previous tournaments but hey if if trust the process Brings Home Ring Jack I'm willing to get on the record and say we'll do give away. What about you yeah? We'll definitely do a giveaway if we win but we don't always WanNa make it just about the events we wanna make about cancer research. Please donate donate. Hey have we set a fundraising goal tomorrow and if we hit a certain goal let's let's let's get to a giveaway that works for me or you want to get what we can do. Real sports donates to cancer research research something like that but we can figure the other will workshop that but there are s pod on instagram hit the link. Thank you guys for supporting now to what you're all here for which is our N._F._l.. Twenty nineteen season preview it gives me gives me chills just started off hot super bowl prediction which two teams are planning in Miami and who's taken home the Lombardi all right this is this is not biased. I swear but this eagles team is the best ills team that Doug Peterson has had going into training camp like he had the 2017 team that obviously was rule but now like their weapons and death all over the place <hes> Tom. Let's take the offensive side of the offers second so you have Zakar. I'M NOT GONNA call him the best tight end in football. I'll give him to would you agree with that with Kelsey sure okay so we'll call him. The second best tight end in football so he seeing a lot of double coverage is up the middle of course and because he doesn't have someone over the top to take the safety off him and distract now eagles bring in a guy like Sean Jackson who commands double coverage over the top of the field safety could have to not within and Zakar is one of the most athletic prolific tight ends and football. That's only going to open up our offense for us. We drafted a running back in the second round in Mile Sanders from Penn state. I had the fortune to watch him for a few years behind behind Saquon at Penn state. He's a really talented back on can can run in between the tackles can catch out of the backfield Jordan Howard brought him from <hes> Chicago. He's been a solid runner for the bears the past couple of years he had trouble with Matt Nagy just because they ran a little different system but are younger quarterbacks are only getting stronger our defensive line <hes> we brought him elite Jackson place on Fletcher Cox so I mean I have no reason to believe that the sky's the limit for the Eagles and you won't find me betting against them look I don't. I don't want to cut you off but I agree with you. I think that well this is what it breaks down to. I don't I think people understand that. The Eagles are one of the deepest teams. They have the coaching it just to me it. All comes down to ours went like if Wednesday return to two years ago is m._v._p.. Form Yeah. They're they're undoubtedly were both favor. Let me ask you this like. Is it a matter of him return to that form or him just staying healthy in general like if he can play sixteen games. What do you think the limit is for this team like I'm not talking? He's GonNa Plant that M._V._p.. Level that he did but like I think we need that level. I think you need that level to win the rules I know. They'll be fine on on both sides of especially in in in the interior but you need a stud quarterback like that's why they won when foles Cormac because he played out of his mind that's why you know obviously the Super Bowl Brady didn't but the whole the whole playoffs right he threw for five hundred yards. What are you talking about not into eagles this against around last year when I was just talking to a buddy of mine today about that like that was the most brutal super bowl of all time was the one significant thing that happened in that super bowl yeah it was <hes> bad throw it wasn't that good but <hes> because the real swertz fam- is eight minutes into this pod and you have literally only talked about <music> out the offseason acquisitions? Can you go ahead and make your prediction. WHO's GonNa make it from the A._F._C. and who's going to win the game well? I think they have a good idea who I think's taking it from the N._F._C. The A._F._C. I mean first off whoever it comes out as conferences and winning the superbowl as you get that straight but the A._F._C. is interesting. <hes> you have the Patriots obviously who are there every year just because they play in the A._F._C. Peck. I'M GONNA make my pick got there. I'm Jay make your pick and then we will break everything okay. So if I'M GONNA take a pick I mean I've taken on other podcasts other episodes. I've taken the colts. I've taken the chiefs but are we locking in an official official. Pick official pick barring. The only thing that you can alter is if the quarterback for either team goes down permanently all right well my official pick for the super bowl coming out of the N._f._c. as the holes and this Omega make <hes> Chris Berman happy because during the Ladainian Tomlinson days this was his super bowl prediction every year Philadelphia Eagles versa I was just about to say San Diego Los Angeles chargers in the two thousand and they'll be twenty then super bowl e. I think everyone in the media picks the chargers literally every year for the past after its but my my rationale my rationale behind it is the Patriots are in every other year your type thing like sure they might be able to go this year but like they won't win it so I don't WanNa take them to go the chiefs. <hes> I grew up with Andy. Reid is my head coach for the Eagles so I know he's GonNa blow a clock situation inevitably inevitably in the A._F._C. Championship division around and then I was picking between the chargers and the colts and I don't know I trust the chargers on both sides of the ball more than the colts yeah I thought they were. They ran into a bad match but the Patriots I thought last year they actually pretty good chance at it. My official Super Bowl prediction is going to be <hes>. I guess I have to call a winner. It's kind of tough to predict the winner. <hes> let's see I'll go take take fever. I'll do chiefs over packers. I think we're finally going to see the new N._F._l.. At its peak we're going to get the two best quarterbacks in the game at their peak because defense wins championships championships and both teams finally invested in their defenses to fully support <hes> their star quarterbacks they have. They don't need these superior offensive weapons. They'll make devante atoms super. They'll make you know whoever the running back for the chiefs is even going to be this year hill. I'm sure he'll put up great numbers so I'm going mahomes over Rogers and obviously I could see that game going both ways <hes>. Let's let's work backwards. Than what other teams do. We have gone to the playoffs in the A._F._C.. I'm GonNa go wild card where I'm just six teams in each conference. That'll make it so obviously I've the chiefs. I've the chargers grabbing wildcards by thing. They'll be very good again. The Patriots winning the F._C._A._T.'s. I think they'll I think this will be. I think finally they won't get the by which is why. I don't have them winning it exactly I have the Jacksonville. Do I have the jags Wayne the division. I'll go out or Colt when the division Jags last wildcard spot. Take the jags getting no wildcard spot just so I could call you out for you take I was there my sleep. I think that's the what and we'll talk a little more about them in a bit and then obviously the toughest for me is going to be deciding who comes out of the A._F._C. North Cajoling me one spot and I've said the whole the whole literally since you know they got oh B._j.. I've said both the Ravens and browns will go nine and seven and the winner of the division will come down to some tiebreaker whether it's visual record and I think that because we'll lose one in cincy this being the ravens will lose at the browns and will lose at Pittsburgh or will split with Pittsburgh. It doesn't really matter where I think we're going to get the short end around the ravens to me on a weekly basis. Shut up shut up. When do I talk in general you can't tell you I don't talk shit to me about even saying they're filthy? I'm they're not filthy at all. Their defense is nasty and this is a man you to point out because I got so everyone's like Oh. They lost his to hold defense. They lost Eric Weddell who was literally the worst defensive back. I've ever seen replacing earl. Thomas was ten times better. I don't care about that. Saw gues dirty Serge's thirty eight years old that didn't matter he had like a half a sack in his final eight games last year. <hes> we lost who owes a dairy Smith through the packers overpaid like crazy every defensive onto star that leaves the ravens as a young kid is literally gone bust you remember the name Paul Kruger the number any of these guys and and that's the last one we can pay for day. It's Joie. It's <unk>. He's a huge loss but point being defensively find no. I don't think the Ravens back because that go I the only thing I do shut up. Shut up the baby but but let me finish Sir let me finish. The only thing I say about the Ravens is it is the most fun team because we are electric and we're so fun to watch. It doesn't mean we're GONNA win a lot of games. It just means. I'm going to enjoy watching the ribbons. I don't think Lamar is actually good. You just said that you're on record on every snapchat saying he's the baby goat from who you yeah. That's his nickname the baby goat yeah the most exciting team in football we good and everyone loves for for my ravens like which are always a boring team though the jury audio to see but I'm pretty sure you just said they're one of the more exciting teams in football that that is true. Everyone will be watching football. Every rule will martin interesting missing an exciting team in football right and we play them twice a you'll be tuning in twice twice as much as anyone will tune into your games. I'll tell you one thing. No one watches the eagles because they're boring ASS team. What do you mean and? That's facts what that's facts. They're not known cares to watch eagle. Everyone hates. Give me Your A._F._C.. Predictions right now Shit A._F._C. predictions coming out of the A._F._C. West. I have the only all my got great. This should be exciting coming out of the A._F._C. West. I have the chargers I had the chiefs taking a a Oh no. I know you're gone with us here. We we have the A._F._C. West. I have the chargers I have. The raiders taking a wildcard spot near my house got caught in a dark hole before I figured out what day are you getting cold feet with that raiders prediction. Now I have a team I want to switch it to. I mean go for it you can do the only thing is that you have to admit that you made a mistake in originally calling the raiders your sleeper team or you have to go with them and this is going to be a six month commitment of when you'll be supporting Jon Gruden fat face and Oakland. Here's your chance to get out and right now yeah so quit while you're ahead. If you can shit okay here we go. You'RE GONNA eat it does up to the charges coming out of the A._F._C. West. I have the chiefs being a wild card of the A._F._C. West. I'm sorry Jon Gruden. I slept on it. You still have improved shift me but I wish you'd be out of the A._F._C.. The East I have the Patriots of course out of the A._F._C. East as my sleeper team the jets jets this I mean from someone who told me New York the worst or Sports City and included the jets in that and how they're discovered or one of my buddies Josh Herman Shadow Josh. My fantasy never do that again. A big never shut out herman again. I'm anyway. He's a big jets fan. <hes> we've been talking fantasy the past couple of weeks in terms of draft strategy and he's kind of just subtly brought up the jets every time and I've kind of convinced myself that darnold make random job and I don't know if you're picking a sleeper team. It's got to be something fun so I'm picking the jet to make a wildcard spot. Maybe six lead the A._F._C. South Interesting Division. Let's throw Marcus Mariota out of there for now. I guess I left out Houston. Who won that division? That's that's kind of bowl right. That's Boba. What did they really do? They didn't really do much to bolster the Rosser today yeah in cloud always having a contract dispute genius now Hopkins the Best Receiver in football is Lamar Miller. I mean it's a matter of I trust Andrew lock making more of a jump than I do Shawn Watson <hes> and Frank Reich has super bowl experienced shoutout eagles how many think the colts coming out of that division but I think you see a <hes> attendance six winner out of that with like maybe the jags Nicole's being nine seven behind that world so you're on the jags train because you didn't like that pick originally no. I really don't mind that pick. I think four net oh get a lot of carries. Out of Abigail touches foles what I mean. He's my guy inevitably. I can't do any but let's take a look up. North to your Ravens Division <hes> what's just throw them out of the out of the loop right now you guys will be lucky to be five hundred. The bengals will be lucky to win to match their win total title of six wins. I just don't comes down the Pittsburgh and Cleveland and I'm so low on Pittsburgh. I don't know why I think it comes your lower Oslo. I am I am I think for me and like they have a veteran quarterback. When you see that to me is what I feel like? They've lost their identity. which was it's always a culture? It's always team. I but I'm GONNA play at the same time I think they regain their identity by parting ways with A._B._M.. On like they were that limbo with them and I think that maybe this like regain their identity to establish themselves as a team. They know what they have going forward. I don't know so. Are we writing. I have Cleveland coming out of this division. Oh my God I can't really we both big Cleveland. I just think Cleveland Winds Nine Games. I think in our division might be mcing. I'm going to be honest. I think they went eleven or twelve O K now Saguenay trust the Cleveland browns a whole sold Thurgau their team. They're so talented man still the browns until proven otherwise day proved it but the browns are saying so will you accept my proposal <hes> <hes> hundred dollars that the browns win eleven games well. What does what does that eleven or twelve games no I didn't I said ten or eleven? Oh Oh my God you literally said it's probably I don't remember the recording so yeah you're pulling out a shit bet out yet move on all right so the N._F._C. we go and let's start in the N._F._C. East. I think the Eagles when the division actually explain why there I think for me it's just offensive and defensive of line. They have the best in the league and that's the most important <hes> our better off than us but like as a Combo okay the law of averages if they have the third best align in second best <hes> cowboys. I think our innate team this year. Redskins and giants will both be garbage so that's an easy division for me. Stay in the N._F._C. for a SEC. I want your honest opinions because he's in a contract doc situation. What are your thoughts on Dak Prescott as a quarterback? She's awful and the cowboys well. He's not off. He actually is a winner. He's he's a winter yeah but he this is what happened. This is the problem with N._F._l.. That we we've always talked about is because of this notion of franchise quarterbacks he. I'll give you the analytical breakdown in the entire N._F._l.. On how to win this it's literally the simple you need two things you either need a quarterback to win on a rookie contract with in his first four years as a pro agreed were have an average quarterback who just gets hot for three games or have someone take a pay cut like Brady you cannot because the N._f._L.'s literally about building out a full team and look at all Rogers and hasn't done it since he signed the deal Matt Ryan hasn't done it since he signed the deal their stock <hes> Goff got there because he's still in that rookie deal and they could sign like an Aaron Donald Plus Asu like that's how you build that team <hes> other examples Stafford caught like obviously he's good enough to be worth that but then the team stuck so the cowboys are unfortunately stuck in that position where they're gonNA going to have to pay deck even though it'd be very smart to pass on him. I'm on. I'm on the team that I don't. It's more bust listen. I don't think you make Jack One of the highest payed quarterbacks in football. That's the only option because someone else will. That's the problem all right but like what choice does Dallas have on the pay him like worrying. Listen in your opinion you think the eagles are really good on both sides of the ball. Yeah agents gave Carson the biggest contract and franchise history and N._F._l.. History they have one year my opinion this is this is the year before I think it maybe the next year but like it gets very tough. 'cause how long are you guys is locked up to. It's just this year and then they're all free agents. We have a strong roster until like twenty twenty one with right lane. We'll start losing a few guys and wants any part of that core starts falling apart. That's when teen fall apart so no worship you need you need both lines the offense. If you need a defensive line and you need a quarterback that's capable like we've seen like what the eagles a few years ago we saw nick foles. Don't have to be an elite level quarterback twenty super team play like what it's tough and then you just have to be game manager like in that in that divisional game against Atlanta a few years ago yeah he had like Shit Yeah he just managed the game like the defense kept us in it and he tried to thrown away. I mean do you disagree at all with what I'm saying like you need not at all so I think that's like unfortunate for the cowboys because someone else will pay him the same way folds essentially cowboys <hes>. I'm so sad <hes> okay cool so next vision <hes> N._F._C. North the bears won twelve games that was a lot of game more interesting divisions and they didn't get that by which sucked for them but I think that the bears are going to be representative of last year's Jaguars trubisky. Isn't that good. I don't think he takes a step forward. I think that the bears were super lucky with having no no injuries I think their defense is excellent but played a above and beyond. It's like the chances of them repeating. <hes> I'm officially off anything related to the Vikings Kirk Cousins Joke Jack I. I'll that'd be honest like you're spitting facts right now in the N._F._C. North. I've never agree with you more right now in currier. How did the eagles make the playoffs because Kirk cousins had a home playoff game against your Atta had a couple couple of my buddies over we were watching the eagles skins game week seventeen and we had the vikings bears on the Vikings needed to win? Get in it was current her cartons. The epitome of average actually loved that guy honestly hooks it up for you guys <hes> lions a joke and then packers my Subaru will pick it has a lot to do with rogers new coach new system all around him which I think is important we saw how that elevated Goff and honestly elevated trubisky last year and they finally they spend eighty million dollars on defense. That's all he's ever needed so if and if Rogers doesn't put it together this season then I'm done with him also and if see South I have the fout android always one of the more interesting divisions of all every one of those kind of changes every year saints dominated the division. They won by six games <hes>. I think they'll be back. I would assume but it wouldn't shock me if I think are we away more even division this year. Tampa is a mess. Ask like if is James the starting quarterback he's on. He's on a contract ear so who would be their backup that was like him and Mariota they came out of the class it postman just the epitome of average but with that with that like doc potential like coming out of college at people banking on that but like this is the final like go round Ernie winner in feels like that both those teams probably should've given up by now like it just feels like quit while while you have the chance so many rumors there are so many rumors around the eagles sending the house to trade up for Mariota during chip Kelly days because he was our coach wasn't Oregon Ibe Blah Blah Blah <hes>. I'll I'll be honest. I was on that bandwagon said the House for Mariota of course you are but now he got Cardi so the thing is that I said with the bears with their luck. I have the reverse I could see the reverse happening with the Falcons. I think that's why they weren't very good last year <hes> new O._C.. To kinda get Julio the ball even more because he needs it so I think the saints could go eleven and five falcons ten and six when the division I'm nervous about camp shoulder in Carolina but <hes> they'll be like an eight eight squad and then the N._f._C. West is actually this is the most interesting division because the cardinals won three games and they're only gonNA improve. They're not going to apply off. The niners were projected to be asleep for the playoffs. Garoppolo goes down week. Two seahawks actually overperform. They were pretty bad to start the year and then they won four of their last five to sneak into the playoffs and then the rams were dominant. I'm just not very sold on Goff. I think they'll be they. They should make the playoffs again to the Super Bowl. I know but I I don't I mean I'm not I'm not sold on him. Either Belie road in the playoffs though was a cowboys team at home. That was a joke in unlike the cowboys couldn't do anything and then they should've lost N._F._C. Championship so they didn't really impress me. I that's so the thing is every year. It seems like there's going to be thirteen in three team in the league. I don't know who that team. Is this year May. I don't think it sounds like you. You're the only team that you're sold on sold sold to win. Their division in the N._F._C. is the eagles yeah that's correct and that sounds. It's like you're pretty sold on the packers not to be like thirteen three but I think they'll win the division right well all right so what's your what's your deal. WHO's coming out of the N._F._C.? He told the yeah packers are coming out but I'm going to go rams saints foued ram at Random Vision Vision. Yes sansom falcons so who's coming out of that division. WHO's getting the wild girl? Give it to the saints. I think they'll do enough. The Division Falcons wildcards packers when the N._F._C. North Eagles when the N._F._C. East. I think I need another. You need one more between the north the west knees I think I guess I could probably just give it a sea hawks there just so consistent Russ's just I mean Russell Pekar emissions the second best coach Yeah I think so I guess I think it's just going to be a very top heavy conference this year in the N._F._C. With you. Packers Saints Falcons Ram just beating up on people right. I don't mind not a start in the N._F._C.. East <hes> beagles when the division for obvious reasons that Jack explained. I don't need to get into it <hes> N._F._C. North. I think Jack was spot. I you this is you wouldn't catch me dead saying all this. But I think Jack was spot on with the N._F._C.. North <hes> Kirk cousins is the epitome of average <hes>. I don't think Mitchell trubisky that good accuracy issues deep all issues he can move in the pocket and create for himself else but I don't know I think that year-over-year what was it last year was the second year right yeah so I think defense can adjust for more often now. They've seen a more <hes>. Obviously the bears have an elite defense in in my opinion one of the best the best football but I don't see that thing enough. I've always been a big rogers guy. They've improved on the defensive side of the ball. I think Jamal Willie Jamal Williams steps into his roles running back. They have Davante Adams whose top receiver. I think that I think the Jimmy Graham makes returned to his old form with Aaron Rodgers <hes> so I have the packers coming out of the north. The West is interesting I might I might I WANNA make a bold prediction here jack go for. I think the Seahawks win the division. I think that I lied I just I thought about that as I said it I I think the Seahawks don't win division. I think the rams won the division. I think this is one of those. There is a few years back when like in the <hes> in the N._F._C. South like one of the teams won. The division was like a seventy correct the marsh not non N._F._C. South so one team a few years ago it was a it was a shit division and like one team with a record. I think we see the same thing the west this ear reser in that division. They're not going to be the Reynaud but they're going to win nine or ten games I think nine and then I have the San Francisco Forty niners as a wildcard team they approved. They improved on the defensive side of the Ball Lebron D. Four. They drafted Bosa. I don't know it's just it's. It's a gut feeling they're bringing in Jimmy J.. Jerick McKinnon is coming back off torn A._C._l.. That's fine if you're about to playoff teams per year that get turned over. Sometimes that was part of my thinking that kind of thing and then <hes> the N._f._C. South is always a toss. I find myself every year wanting to believing in just because about how cool he is like his most swag in the N._F._l.. Like real asli his shoulders brutal McCaffrey can have assure year a great year Scher but like can D._J.. More turn into that number one receiver for them. I don't see it Greg. Olson will pry brake is foot again so I have the saints in the Falcons Gang Out of this division <hes> uh-huh I'm GonNa give the edge to the Falcons in the to be honest. I think they suffered a lot of injuries on defense last year and the return to the full form Devante Freeman healthy. You're out of Julio Geos to seems to get hurt R._e._i.. For now but like even if he's healthy like there's always a debate between him and Tevin Coleman Coleman's gone so it showed a run so Alcoa's winning that division Asian with a very strong record the saints being the wild card with a strong record as well <hes> N._F._C. East obviously was coming out and see north. I'M GONNA take Green Bay. Jack did and have see west. I'M GONNA go with the Rams and the niners niners coming out of that. I have the eagles winning the N._F._C. Championship over Atlanta as our little brothers every time we've been them all the just happens to come down to the last pat every time <hes> <hes> that that means you guys pretty solid. I mean anyways core demand. We'll just keep it keep the show moving wool go like ten more minutes. Here will try and get wrapped up but but M._v._p.. We've touched on this a little belichick refresh the listeners who hadn't heard of before. I'm going Aaron Rodgers. I think he puts it all together. We'll have the ball more he'll have zone offense which might take a little time to address so but give a quarterback that much time that good I think he will lead the packers to like twelve and four record. He'll put up the numbers and when you pay who aren't well I refuse to for the listeners purposes. I'm going to stay away away from Carson <hes> even though I may think he's GonNa win and the Eagles be great. I'm going to take a picture of him and I mean it stays with my other N._F._C. Championship pick. I'M GONNA GO Matt Ryan. <hes> I think though I think Calvin Ridley makes a jump from you know he of course he was. I think he just continues to improve their devante Freeman back awesome Hooper Julio Jones I. I don't know for some reason I've always been an N._F._C.. South Guy to the point where I think that the Saints Falcons Panthers are always way better than they are so this is just off the top of the Dome to be honest. I go with Matt Ryan Firm Rookie of the year. I'm growling. Did we did us but not everyone listened to that N._F._l.. Are To that money mailbag so I wanted to put it in the N._F._l.. Preview my rookie of the year Schuyler logic behind it. He's got you you know he's going to play all sixteen games which is huge for a quarterback because the award is obviously heavily on statistics. That's a big reason why saquon held off Baker <hes> they're going to be an improved team which will help for his resume. He's going to be in the cliff Kingsbury these berry offense and he's GonNa put up those dual passing passing plus rushing numbers <hes> and then the rest of the quarterback crop like Daniel Jones. You won't see much time drew lock once you much time and the only other option I think is your rookie of the year Josh Jacobs on the raiders and I'm just going quarterback running back especially because the running back on last year I just don't see it happening back to like Saquon was so so special and he barely bigger who played like ten games. I mean you just totally under I mean counter. Tell me why Jacobs could win over cuyler 'cause I just don't see it happening. No I mean I think I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Josh shake-ups the rookie out of Alabama is going to be the rookie of the year solely further reason that saquon was and he's going to get the volume we saw with Gruden. He's always been known to feed is number one running backs Cadillac Williams our listeners might not know about him because he's a horrible we were. We were young when he he was like rookie like a decade ago. Davey getting gruden gives is running backs like upwards of three hundred touches and I think that's so much attention will be towards a be that a lot of those touches towards Josh Jacobs will go for big yardage and like I mean crap. You know what I didn't pick them for the playoffs. There's too many too many teen. I really pick the jets. You'RE GONNA regret that in the morning <hes> all right. I'm slim anyway. I think that I think that the raiders are good to have a better year. Ear that people expect an Josh Jacobs rookie the leaper overrated team and worst team in the League all-star my sleepers the Jags bortles two years ago led the same drag similar jags team to N._F._C. Championship again. They actually have one. They got a little unlucky. I think foles comes in Kinda revives. Them finally puts a competent quarterback up there and I think he takes them to the playoffs. My overrated team. That's GonNa Fall is the bears. I've like I mentioned engine trubisky not a huge fan of <hes>. I think they were injury. Free last season. The defense 'cause way too many turnovers. It's unrealistic to expect that type of production again and then my worst team in the league. I'M GONNA go. I WANNA say the dolphins because my best friend Dean is dolphins fan but I think it's GonNa take me don't take I don't know who you're going to be. I'm going to say the buccaneers because like I mentioned I think they're just just in shambles all across the board especially a quarterback. Who Do you got sleeper? Sleeper calculated worse sleeper team can actually if they're both brutal. I'M GONNA go the jets. I think Darnell makes a big job. Maybe my fantasy partner Herman has been in my ear for a little bit they. I think they have the best rookie in the class ass like he won't last year. Quinton Nelson was probably the best rookie he was all pro in everything but like in the nature of the award. You're not GonNa win the position as an offensive lineman spending quitting Williams the best Turkey they solidify the line <hes> they they wanted to see J. I Dunno darnold makes that jump for me. Maybe they need another receiver or tight end to be formidable but I like what the jets are doing so many make them my sleeper team. I think they can win. Eight or nine games over just like Kinda has a drop off. I guess yours has to be the rams no they're. We're going to go from thirteen in a row appearance. I'M GONNA take okay for sure last year. They were ten and six when the N._F._C.'s yeah don't repeat it. I'm just not on that. I'm not a no you know who I'm not sold on more than Dak.. Prescott is Jason Garrett like I think Jerry Jones has to get over his love festive him and fire him. I think Dak Prescott Ken be a franchise quarterback just because like you don't have have to be that good to win a super bowl. I don't think Jason Gharib's the Guy I think they had extreme lock with their with their defense last year and late vandereycken their linebacking core of course they're great but I don't see them having the impact they last year <hes> I don't see Amari Cooper being as formidable as he was catching so many touchdowns sure they brought him Randall cobb but this is in two thousand fourteen so screw you randall Cobb. Kobe's Lebron Jason Win. It can't move on from that. They brought him who win and you go convert how that's all he does. He'll be like dirk while it's the thing is they brought in Jason Witten or brought back but they removed Kobe Xlii the king of third and six right across the middle. I don't know I see Dallas. Falling off like I can even see Washington finishing second division. There's this year Haskins formidable and the last category on pick worse record. Oh Yeah you took the box some the cardinals. We're going to keep it from my boys. We're gone. You know what those New York giants like. Let's get there and you're helpless. That is a God. They don't even deserve to be the worst team like Gettleman <unk>. Ghetto men will probably trade at the deadline for some pieces to make sure they end up with the fifth worst record Michael Luge. My delusional friends like out any shepherd there deal manner team isn't horrible. They're not wrong. It's not horrible. It's not good by any stretch but ELI is miserable. He's miserable. There's no you think using Daniel Jones this year I think like it's literally been a year and a half of them. Booing Eli off the field like they're gonNA break it some. Didn't they benched Eli for game last year. They bench him for a single game. Umbro smithville like brother schedule like it are so they opened up against the cowboys than the bills than the box like Elias still be there the redskins he'll be there then you have the vikings so that hatred who really gonNA start like three Korean won or something and and and the Bra I mean the teacher named her that you'd beat the bills but that's what I'm saying this is this is how I see it playing out the like beat the bills in the box because the bills inbox both both won't be that good and who is the fourteen I think I think the bills are might know they are but I'm saying and WHO's the fourteen tau they go. Go Cowboys then bills than by prediction is they'll be three in one an and the browns will have a worse record and then the media narrative will literally be all about you know Odell Blah Blah Blah. He was the cancer and all of that. That's my because that's just how it plays out by the end of the season only find all right. Let's wrap it up another shat out to our lived ball charity campaign. Please donate at our pod on instagram well the link attach a major shoutouts my girlfriend Halley. It's her birthday July twenty fifth when the PODCASTS <unk> gas launch a view. I know my favorite part of <unk> we had we had to throw the night for how while only because it's related to sport so obviously she she doesn't listen but he's GonNa listen to this out. Someone Charlie at that part is that saquon files on instagram and randomly someone from the real swords fan will be like you know. Do you know saquon follows your girlfriend scam. I'll be like yes is the hundred person who's told me it's not cool. They were friends who is closer though U._N.. U._N.. Say or her and Saquon. She was probably closer just because she's a girl and can offer that I can for real sports fan. I was buddies with Saquon in college still keep in touch a little bit. We're going to do what we can to get them on the podcast <hes> but yeah just for the sole fact that I'm not a girl and can't give him what he wants. I'm going to say Sally Sally gave him what he wanted either I wish she did. We'll keep that let's let's drop it up drugs out all right real towards fan. This is our twenty nineteen n._F._l.. Preview we will see you guys from Miami me for the Super Bowl well. Let's try and figure it out. We'll try you down if it's Eagles Ravens. We'll definitely be there live pod from Miami. I Real Sports Fan. It's been real.
Ruth Bader Ginsburg Undergoes Medical Procedure at Hospital
"Ruth Bader GINSBURG undergoes medical procedure at hospital by the Associated Press. Washington Justice Ruth Bader. GINSBURG has undergone a surgical medical procedure in. New. York City and expects to be released from a hospital there by the end of the week. The supreme. Court said Wednesday night. The court said in a statement that the eighty-seven-year-old Ginsburg underwent a minimally invasive procedure to revise a bile duct stent at Memorial Sloan. Kettering cancer. Center, the stint had originally been placed last August when Ginzburg was treated for a cancerous tumor on her pancreas. The statement said that according to Ginsberg's doctors. stent revisions are common occurrences and the procedure performed using endoscopy and medical imaging guidance was done to minimize the risk of future infection. The procedure follows another one earlier this month at Johns Hopkins, hospital. In Baltimore to clean out the stand, Ginsburg had gone to the hospital after experiencing fever and chills and was treated for possible infection. The statement from the court Wednesday said that Ginsburg is resting comfortably and expects to be released from the hospital by the end of the week. Ginsburg the oldest justice on the nine member court announced earlier. This month that she is receiving chemotherapy for a recurrence of cancer. The liberal justice do has had four earlier bouts with cancer set her treatment so far has succeeded in reducing lesions on her liver.
The Croissant Diet, Wine Fasting, Oodles Of Pork Lard, Keto Bricks & Much More With Brad Marshall.
"On. This episode of the Ben Greenfield Fitness podcast a question that I'd had my whole life was if I'm fat then why am I hungry? I clearly don't need the calories right and so the more I read Hyper Lipid and thought about the post meals cycle of how does one remain satiated? What causes satiated? How does the system of together I started to realize that are west production and the Mayakoba Andrea of fat cells. Kin Sort of solve the cognitive dissonance. Help. Performance Nutrition. Longevity. Ancestral living biohacking. And much more. My name is Ben Greenfield welcome to the show. Welcome to the show you guys Brad Marshall disguise crazy. He's the Croissant Dia Guy. He's the Wind Diet Guy Yes. and Wine, and we talk about the Croissant Diet and the wind I in today's episode. If that sounds gimmicky don't worry we actually dig deep into science that's going to help you whether or not. You WanNa croissants all day long like Brad did lose a bunch of weight or drink wine all day long say she the appetite weird stuff but we get into the science of on today's episode. It's a Doozie as they say, this podcast is brought to you by the brand new kion immunity bundle just roll this. Thing out I'm super excited about it. I've taken vitamin C. and zinc to the best things for immune system blended them together in perfect dosages with a form of zinc that does not upset your stomach like most think does and then I've added in Kian Colostrum, which is the natural substance made by mammals to strengthen the immune system and gut health of their babies. I got my hands on Super High Quality, grass-fed Antibiotic Free Colostrum bundled it with the vitamin C. and zinc, and then the last thing I added. A Wonderful Wild Mediterranean oil of Oregano with really high content. What's Cockrel? which is kind of like the main immune-boosting in supporting component of Oregano. 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But you're boxes who is bringing this to you and what you can do is reserve your spot today at butcher box dot com slash Ben to get in on all the meat goodness including that free grass-fed grass finished beef going to add two pounds of it. Every order butcher box, dot com slash band to get ground beef for life. Well folks if you've been listening to this podcast for any period of time, then you may have heard me talk about my friend. Ron. Panel. Before formerly of of quest nutrition he is also a guy who appears in my book boundless and he's a real real fun dude for me to bounce ideas particular realm of nutrition and particularly things like low carb and Kito of and he emailed me a few weeks ago and he said you gotTa meet this Guy Brad Brad Marshall and he told me that this Brad Guy was super crazy just as crazy as as another recent podcast guest of Mine Joel. Green who I think run also introduced me to and he said that Brad, had this. Take on something called the reactive oxygen species theory of Obesity House like Oh boy right. This sounds like I may have to go read a bunch of pubmed research to to dig into whether or not actually interview this guy, and so I actually read an article that he wrote called the RS theory of obesity and we're we'll actually get into that bit today but even more intriguing I found out that he has. been working on something called a croissant literally eating croissants to get lean, which sounds super wrong and super off, and we're going to get into that today, his Crisanto Diet, and furthermore he also is now researching something called the wine diet and I told my wife I was going to interview this dude who has a croissant and wine die and she's like I love this guy, can we have him over for dinner? So my wife at least is on board with what you do Brad But anyways up for those who listening in Brad's GonNa, fill you in on his history because he actually has a really fascinating history and he even has kind of like a a Meat Company. Now that's. Designed to kind of get you the type of fatty acids that we're GonNa talk about in today's show he has a genetics degree from Cornell and he also has a certificate from the French culinary. Institute? So the cat knows how to cook he studied cancer at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center and he's worked as a programmer for a the Berkeley draws affiliate genome project, and then he spent the last fifteen years raising rotationally grazed pastured pork on his farm in upstate New York were running a butcher shop and a restaurant, and so he's a pretty intriguing dude I. GotTa. Tell. You Brad that you're going to be super proud of me because I get pretty immersed in the podcast that I do. So for breakfast this morning I had a giant plate of Pork Lard because I actually cooked up a pork loin chop for some guests that I had last night. So I save all of the all all that lovely lovely pork rind off the outside and just gave that a light smoke last night and then just had a giant plate of salted pork lard this morning for breakfast because I knew he'd be talking about Derek acid that. Dude I am literally standing here talking year my desk with a belly full of pork lard feel pretty good. and. So of course, that begs the question that what what, what did you have for breakfast this morning. I black coffee. I've been doing this new Diet incorporating lots of very long chain saturated, fat alternating with Kinda periods of fasting but. You know for me the fasting always typically involves either black coffee or red wine. Those are my you know those are those are my Go-to so Red Wine for breakfast or do you you we? Know No it's a time restricted red wine window that starts like post like six pm you know. Okay. All right. We'll get into the. We'll get into the wine diet later on I think but. I want hear about your background dude, because it sounds very intriguing. So so fill us in on how you got into all this in the first place, right so okay. So I'm a molecular biologist by training right I have A. Molecular Biology degree from Cornell I did a lot of lab work as you mentioned in a in a draw fruit fly lab at Cornell and. Later, at Memorial Sloan Kettering and I also I like computer science I found myself working at. The Berkeley just awful genome project is a programmer later. So you know, I, have a technical background but my true love is food and cooking. and. So right after Cornell I was while I was at. Memorial. Sloan Kettering. I went to I went to the French Culinary Institute, which is in Manhattan of down on Broadway and so that was like an intensive ten hour week training. It went on for like thirteen weeks and I learned all of basically the traditional French technique and that's Where I was sort of introduced to a lot of the ideas behind French cuisine and and you know what they eat and how the eight and it was interesting. You know I grew up in upstate New York. In rural upstate New York we didn't really have strong food traditions and I actually wanted to see what I really wanted to go. To to school for was Mexican cuisine but that at least at the time was not a thing that I could go for they only there was only a French techniques. So that's what I did. Anyway. So over time, I became more kind of hammered with ideas of agriculture and local food and how best to raise it and the idea of pastured meats, and so I've struggled with my weight, my whole life and a lot of people in my family have You know it's been a constant in my life and so probably by the early two thousands, I was doing the Atkins Diet to lose weight right which was the thing at the time no one was calling it kito yet. And and that was very successful for me in my early twenties I lost weight and then anyway, I was in New York and I was going to farmers markets all the time, and then I was in San Francisco going to farmers markets and and thinking about food and thinking about really high quality meats because I was a low carb diet in that was kind of my interest and ultimately, well, it free at that point, my my girlfriend heather and I started the farm. Instruments Burg and. You know and I left the tech world entirely and I left the science world entirely and just started. Doing things on the farm and I wasn't entirely sure what I was going to do with the farm but I. I bought three little piglets and I mean I just fell in love with the fans. They're great. You have a farm. You don't know what to do. So you by pigs, I maybe would have gone for chickens or goats. Pigs worked. We had we had chicken I bought chickens I planted apple trees I was thinking about making hard cider I We got some house even milking one of the cows. So you know I kinda tried all of the things right but everything that I did the thing that I loved the thing that I was good at Were the pigs and actually when I was still in. San Francisco one day heather said Oh that's funny. Someone is selling a whole pig on craigslist. This. was back in the days when craigslist was only in the bay area Cisco and I was like and I kinda laughed off and then a couple of days. Later I was like I should go back and look and indeed though it was still there I called them up and they still had the pig. So I bought a whole pig and I I spent. Weeks like cutting it up and curing it. You know I did dry cured bacon and I did dry cured like a pursue CTO and the neighbors thought I was running a meth lab 'cause I built this like ten dollars, tarps and picnic tables in the backyard where I like Swiss smoking it for days you're making me hungry man I just breakfast making me hungry. I made. I made a couple of different kinds of PAT, Tei and sausages, and I've just you know I just saw the pig kind of pulls together my love of. Cooking and culinary arts and. Farming and the connection to the land and pigs pigs turn out to be very interesting because they really are what they eat, and this is what I I knew that but the next part of the story. So then for the last fifteen years I was raising pigs we were rotationally managed them on pastures I I'm not sure if anyone has ever rotated pigs on pasture as aggressively as we were, we were literally a moving them onto a fresh slice of pasture. Every day I'm assuming at this point you were beyond the three little piglets or it was just with. The three little piglets at the end I think the last year I finished seven hundred hogs on past. Definitely grew a lot right but. The cool. Kind of vantage that I had was that since I had the farm and the butcher shop I could see how What I fed the pigs, how that affected The quality right. And so I could see, Oh, if I feed them corn, they have soft fat. If I, feed them barley, they have firmer fat and and I knew that. Because I love I like to research and Riedel dings and so there's all these great agricultural tax from the late eighteen hundreds and early nineteen hundreds and you know it was pretty common knowledge back. Then that like in European markets American pork fetched a low price and it fits a low price because the fat was soft because all of the American port was finished on corn and the European board was all finished on barley and corn has more polyunsaturated fat than barley does and it turns out. That the lintel egg acid actually kind of bioaccumulates in the meat and so So a corn finished pig the FAZ much softer than a a barley finish peg, and so at first I was feeding them corn and then I switched to barley and you know the difference in the quality is very notable. All of a sudden you have a firm fat. That's almost like a like the fat on the back of a state you know just just by switching from from corn barley for their feet. Because corn is about five to six percent oil and barley is about two to three percent oil And you know interestingly the only macromolecules that you can feed. A pig right ended actually like. Changes the how the the final organism is built is are the polyunsaturated fats. Because if I feed it more protein, it's just GONNA turn the. You know it's going to turn the protein that's GonNa either burn it as energy or it's going to store it as saturated fat were of I, feed him more starch. It's GonNa burn as energy or going to store it as saturated fat you know what I mean but in the polyunsaturated fats, they actually they actually accumulate in the animal, which is an important point that you make because the the glucose will not accumulate any animal obviously aside from relatively non appreciable amounts of liver and muscle glycogen that you may get a little of when you eat and then the saturated fats those are those are not going to accumulate because those are simply used. For some membranes for cholesterol et CETERA. But but the polyunsaturates those if you're consuming the meat of an animal are what you're going to be consuming and the the length or the nature of those polyunsaturates or the monounsaturated depending on what that animals been fed are also what you're going to get exposed to exactly, and so anyway, I kind of have gone far afield of the initial question was my my background but L. but this is an important step in the process. Right is sort of seeing this process happening and learning it and seeing how how what you eat actually affects your body composition and humans of course, are no different than pigs in that. Regard Right, and so you know I was very busy for the past fifteen years and I like I. Say I had come from a low carb background but. I was just overwhelmed with everything that I was doing and I kind of let my diet go to the wayside and I realized I had I had gained a lot of weight and I wasn't eating very carefully and I woke up January first two thousand nineteen and I stepped on the scale and I was basically sixty pounds overweight and I said, well, that's not that's not great. I should do something about this and so you know I went back to A. To a Ketogenic Diet and found is that I you know I couldn't lose weight as easily as A. Forty three year old as I could as a twenty, eight year old right which probably doesn't really shock anyone. and. So I. Mean, those are the two things happen as you age right. It gets harder to lose weight and the copious amounts of beer that you're accustomed to drinking college and longer seem to metabolize quite as well as they did somehow magically everybody everybody turns into a pardon the expression red-faced Asian businessmen you know by the time you're forty in terms of response to alcohol. So so yes, you gain weight faster and you don't you don't handle your beer as well. Right? To markers of aging. Right exactly and so. So Anyway, I did what? What any what anyone would do at this point when the way wasn't coming off easily I started rereading the blog hyper lipid. What's his? What's his last name Peter? Hyper LOB DAB yeah. Needle out ski I don't remember. By, the way I'll I'll leak to for those who listening in two brads website and elite to Peters website and everything we talk about if you guys go to Ben Greenfield fitness, dot com slash croissant diet. If you don't know how to spell croissant I'm sorry but it's Ben Greenfield fitness dot com slash Crisanto Diet if you want show notes for today's show Okay. So so Brad, you started digging into a Peter Hyper Lipid had had been working on right and so essentially, you know what? What Peter he has this threat he calls the protons threat on his blog, and that's where kind of the reactive oxygen species start to come in and I've I've spent a lot of time thinking about this I've sort of like. Crystallize this into some. things that you don't actually have to understand like the structure of the Michael Conrad Gone. Understand why this is important and so to put it simply a long chain saturated fats. When when those are being burned in your mitochondria result in the production of these things called reactive oxygen species, and at this point, we don't even need to know what they are. But. Okay. So why does that why do my country do this and what does it mean well? I believe that the production of the of these are. In, the Mitochondria is a signal to the organism or to the cell in which the might Oh Kandari lives that the mighty Andrea is presently burning fat This signal has been preserved for about a billion years time at least because there's a paper in RS theory of obesity that shows that even Seila which is a which is a tiny nematode lives in the soil of the same mechanism is at play and so you know your your biology right is going to make a bunch of different choices if it thinks it's burning fat rather than. A glucose for fuel right right and I'M GONNA I'm GonNa stop you right there that where where you're talking about what the body's GonNa do if it tends to burn fat versus if it's Burning Glucose. Fuel because I know that's GonNa really lead into the the evolution of this Croissant Diet but just one thing I want to clarify for folks listening in who may still be under the impression that s reactive oxygen species are these bad aging molecules generally how they're painted popular exercise literature but every microbe, just you guys know every microbe actually monitors its intracellular. Concentration of reactive oxygen species and there's something Reebok sensor that does that now the reebok sensor responds to different signals from the you're active auction species that are traveling around the body senses those and then makes adjustments based on how much oxidative stress the body is under what kind of fuel as Brad was just alluding to sugar versus fat. The body is burning and I can do things like enhanced cellular repair or shift the body into one state or another. State Metabolic, -Ly based on the signaling molecules that that these reactive oxygen species bureaucracy auction species are functioning as so understand that these are like chemical messengers in your body and as you as you listen to today's show understand that when we say something like reactive oxygen species, we're talking about this horribly bad thing that you gotta go eat a bunch of Kale and blueberries to get rid of which is I think largely the way people think about our these days. Yes and so two follow up on what you said there. What your body is really trying to achieve is a state of. REEBOKS balance right end. Right exactly Homeo- stasis, and so your body wants to be kind of somewhere in the middle and so your body has a whole Im- built antioxidant system You know if we didn't have if we weren't able to to ramp up all these antioxidants, we'd have a real hard time living in an oxygenated environment because oxygen is in fact quite corrosive As you can see by rust and fire right leg we it's sort of a dangerous thing to live in the presence of quite frankly. And so so we have this whole built in. Antioch System and what happens is if we if our cells produce more or less than ourselves, make more antioxidants and if we consume a lot of external antioxidants. than our cells make less antioxidants, right because our sales are not trying to eliminate antioxidants, they're trying to stay balanced between. Because there's something called oxidative stress but the flip side of that the opposite end of the coin is reductive stress, which is equally dangerous. We don't WanNa be we don't want to have too much antioxidants as a bad thing. I would I would argue. Right which which has been demonstrated in in literature such a such as inhibition of my to Condo proliferation or satellite. So response after you exercise would be a function of excessively shutting down on stress with high intake of say synthetic vitamin C. or synthetic vitamin E.. That's a perfect example where. where? Reducing reactive oxygen species excessively can lead to actual limitation of normal homeo- static response to exercise. Right exactly, and furthermore, you know one of the tricks that cancer cells play is they will accumulate antioxidants. Especially Glutathione but other antioxidants as well, and what happens is the immune cells try to kill the cancer cells with essentially bursts of reactive oxygen species but the the cancer cells will literally build up these huge pools of antioxidants to prevent themselves being killed by the immune system. So this kind of reeboks. Balanced things are happening all over the body, all the time and all kinds of different ways and so yes i. don't think that reactive oxygen species are bad. I think they are. A fundamental signaling molecule and the body uses them in in defense That's how it kills pathogens that come in you know by blasting them with our with these reactive oxygen species and so right it's A very dynamic system and it. Of Ways and so win when we are consuming a food source that contains an appreciable amount of these long chain saturated fats such as we would find in for example, like a marbly beef fat or cocoa butter or dairy fat would be another perfect example or from what I understand pork. Lard. Or The Of the pork that had this morning, cut off the end of the The Pork Loin we had for dinner last night I am exposing my body to a high amount of these long chain saturated fats in inducing a release of reactive oxygen species that is picked up by the reebok sensors as a signal that my body should be burning fat snot sugar as a fuel. Exactly. That's exactly right and so ultimately, what happens is so after a meal. You Produce Insulin Right. And this is true whether or not. It's a low carb meal proportionally I most meals containing carbohydrates are going to have a higher insulin response but you still are going to produce insulin when you eat a steak and so And so after a meal, the body's producing insulin and what happens is if your cells if you're especially your fat cells era a dip asides or add up sites as I, like to call them. Are Are Burning Saturated fat, and if they're relatively full of the energy levels in the cellar already high they're going to be producing a lot of reactive oxygen species and what that means is those fat cells are going to be less likely to listen to insulin and insulin is telling the fat cells to do. So one of the primary roles of fat cells is to do something called life policies, which is to say that the fat cell itself. You know it. It's got all the fat stored and policies is the process by which the fat cells release fat to the rest of your license lipids, the policies. Exactly and so insulin tells your fat cells stop doing that and so what if your body is extraordinarily responsive to insulin? What happens is your fat cells stop releasing fat to the rest of the body. and. So therefore, you know someone who is very Who's adipocytes are responding very strongly to insulin if you eat a, let's say you eat starchy meal. What happens is now you have less what are called free fatty acids, which is basically the energy supply of fat that's available in your blood. To the cells and so you eat starchy mail. Your Blood Glucose goes up initially, but your free fatty acids go way down. And if your fat cells are really listening insulin it take it takes a very long time for the levels of free fatty acids in your blood to rebound. In the meantime, Your Blood Glucose is now dropping two or three hours after the meal. And that's when two or three after. Two or three hours after a meal you feel intensely hungry because now your blood sugar has come back down to baseline in your free fatty acids are way below the premium levels. So even though you've consumed calories three hours after the meal, you're you're hungrier than you were potentially before the meal because there's actually less fuel for the cells, right? Because they're looking at. When cells hungry, it's like it wants to either taken blood glucose or fatty acids so or you know or tones or other things but. You potentially have the situation after meal where they're both were both free fatty acids and glucose are low, and that is going to lead to hunger. Conversely, if those cells are not listening to. To Insulin. So strongly, what's going to happen is When you eat the starchy meal. The free fatty acids are not going to drop as much after the meal and they're going to rebound quicker and so by the time the blood glucose has gone the free fatty acids have already rebound so so from the perspective of your cells, they're still plenty of energy available to them, and so that's all determined by how. How, responsive to insulin your fat cells are right and so there's a really good paper that I talk about in in the theory of of obesity. It's one of my favorite ones in this series. It was done in Spain and they gave people three or four different test meals. And basically one of them got butter and the other one I believe got olive oil and the other group got some mixture of vegetable oil fish oil I think And what happened is indeed the group given the butter given the butter, their free fatty acids never dropped as low as the other two groups, and in fact, after the meal, their free fatty acids were higher than before the meal whereas than the other two groups you they're free fatty acids didn't bounce back to baseline for like eight hours but the group that ate the butter you know they bounced right back and so presumably that suggest that butter will lead to. MORE LASTING SOCIETY POST MEAL. Than more unsaturated fats they didn't actually test that in the study but to me, that's what it suggests. Right even compared to to a monounsaturated fat for example, the long chain saturated fats and butter would be more satiated sheeting, and if I could step back just really quickly for people and and paint a pretty simplistic picture of this the idea is that when you are eating an appreciable amounts of fats that can be readily burnt as a fuel such as the the type of long chain saturated fats that you'd find things like beef fat or cocoa butter or dairy fat or pork Lard at Cetera. What happens is that your cells do not need to release glucose into. The bloodstream as a readily available source of fuel because you've got so many frigging fatty acids circulating in your bloodstream that you don't need that glucose available. So what your body does based on the reactive oxygen species that get released in response to this saturated fat intake is those reactive oxygen species will cause a temporary state of insulin resistance meaning when insulin attempts to to to to shove things like like like glucose into cells, the cells are a little bit less responsive to that and when the the the bodies attempted to story fatty acids as well. The cells are less responsive to that. She was essentially have more metabolites circulating in the bloodstream available for. Your appetite station for a longer period of time theoretically on fewer calories overall by the end of the day and thus the overall effect if we if we were to to kind of paint with a broad brush, here would be you stay full for a longer period of time on fewer calories. If you're eating a diet that includes a lot of long chain, saturated fats because you've essentially induced a temporary state of insulin resistance. But in this case, the insulin resistance would be a good thing. Not a bad things such as you might see in something like a diabetic condition. Yes that that's exactly right the idea that that this kind of short term insulin resistance is a normal physiological state and. Different from the kind of long-term pathological insulin resistance and type two diabetes You know I think how I talk about it on my blog is that it this kind of physiological insulin resistance actually happens all over the body. All the time but it's most important in the fat cells because it's sort of like at the end of a meal. Okay. Now we've got glucose circulating around. We've got some fatty acids. We might have ethanol or key tones or other sources of fuel in it's like how do the? How do the cells? Signal to the rest of the body. That their full in one of the ways they do. That is by simply okay. We're done listening to insulin resistance and that allows you know the circulating fuels grow even higher and that is presumably signalling station in. The hypothalamus right and so I think each cell is probably more or less insulin resistant all the time. And there's also this thing called the randle cycle, which isn't really it's sort of independent of insulin, but it's the way that that if you've been fasting for a while or if you're low carb. that your muscle cells. Will switch what's substrates they're using and that? I have a whole podcast about the randle cycle. That I recorded. Basically this idea that your body whether eating a high carb, low fat or high fat low carb. Diet. Will kind of shift its substrate utilization on the type of macaroni and cheese. You're consuming meaning that someone eating a high carb Diet would shift into a higher state of glucose utilization someone in a high fat diet. Would shift into a state of more kind of fat burning or Ketone Utilization, and I interviewed Denise Meager about this and I'll link to that podcast in the show notes. But you know the I think the very important thing. Probably the biggest takeaway that folks who don't want to necessarily get a biochemistry degree on this podcast in nutrition sized related field should understand is that the long chain saturated fats that were referring to repeatedly about fourteen carbons or longer such as we would find an in butter and those other sources that I keep mentioning like the cocoa butter in the Lord etc.. Those induce this state of insulin resistance based on the reactive oxygen species signaling thus causing you to burn more fatty acids is a fuel lowering your blood glucose, allowing you to stay full for a longer period of time but I think the most important takeaway here for people brad and I don't know if you agree with me from from about chemical standpoint is that unsaturated fats don't do that unsaturated fats and we're not just talking like canola oil right? Fresh seeds, nuts, avocados. Olives olive oil peanut butter, peanut oil unsaturated fat, which is, which is largely the majority of the fat. You'll get from those sources that I just mentioned do not cause the body to shift into that state of insulin resistance or fatty acid utilization as readily as the consumption of these long chain saturated fats, right? That is exactly right and so it doesn't take a whole lot of unsaturated fats to prevent the production of these reactive oxygen species as well and so an interestingly. If you look at how the American Diet has changed over the past fifty years well, in some cases how it's always been, but you know we're eating a lot more chicken than we did if years ago and so. The. kind of non-ruminant animals Poultry and pork mostly, a can be a Trojan horse for these polyunsaturated fats. So the Bacon that you are sorry, the not the Bacon, the pork fat, the lar- that you eight this morning depending on how the pig was fed can have anywhere between three percent and thirty percent of polyunsaturated fats like I have seen tests. So one of the things that's happened is in the early two thousands in the US, we built a series of ethanol distilleries. The. To make the ethanol that goes into our gas tanks, an upper midwest, and what happens in the ethanol distilleries as they basically turn the starch in the co- in the corn into ethanol, and that leaves behind the fiber and the protein and the oil, and so it really concentrates the amount of oil in the corn and a byproduct the dried distillers grains as they call them those fed back to the pigs, and so that's essentially a concentrated source of of corn. Oil. I think at some of the facilities they remove that oil from the regular grains before feeding it to the pigs. But I suspect a lot and a lot of the facilities they don't in in other thing that happened is in the ninety s when everybody wanted you know the other white meat, a really low fat pork. They selected for these ultra-lean genetics and. What happens in those pigs is they don't This is what they were trying to do they just what they after they had made these really lean pigs they were like, how do these things work anyway and it turns out they're incapable of doing de Novo light but genesis, which is which is when they make their own fat from the starches that they're fed. and so animals cannot make polyunsaturated fats. They can only make saturated fat and some of that gets converted to monounsaturated fat and so what happens in the nineties the pig genetics chain so that the pigs could no longer make the saturated fats and the monounsaturated fats. They were kind of forced to get the facts from their diet and largely their diet consists of corn oil. So those pigs I I actually raised a couple of them on my farm unfortunately, because I I did not like them equality, but it was an interesting experiment to do you know side by side with heritage breeds pigs And when we butchered them, the heritage breed pigs would have nice hard firm fat because you know I wasn't even feeding them corn. They were just getting barley grass and the fat on the You know the other white made these long lean kind of post ninety s pigs it never firms up the fat always remained soft in soft pork fat is a definite indicator of polyunsaturated fat content. So sometimes, pork is a very good source of long chain saturated fats and sometimes pork is a very good source of polyunsaturated fat chickens or even worse. Some number of years ago it was realized that if you feed chickens supplemented soybean oil on top of the corn that's already in their diet, it gets them to market a few days faster, and so the NRA see I might have the acronym wrong but it's basically a national organization that sort of puts out the the national feeding standards for livestock. So it's built into the national feeding standards for poultry that you kind of have to feed chickens five percents, soybean oil. and. So we're actually feeding them extra soybean oil on top of the fact that they're already eating corn right and so chicken is typically twenty around twenty percent polyunsaturated fat or possibly even more canola oil canola oil is like fifteen percent polyunsaturated fat so so Most. Chicken has more polyunsaturated fats than canola oil and most port does well, honestly abroad penny again, he senan after he saw some of my stuff he sent in some pork rinds he had for sampling and one of the samples came back at sixteen percent polyunsaturated fat, which again is. You know that's that's that's canola oil levels, and conversely the pigs that I've. Raised on my farm that I had tested, they were down at about five to six percent. Of On saturates. Of which was really important and and so if a few few things here. Because in the interest of time I do want to. Go from pigs because I'm sure everybody's scratching their head wondering what the hell all of this has to do with croissants to croissants but I should mitch a couple of things. First of all, all all the pork that I eat right now is coming from Bell Campo farms up in northern California and that's all pasteurize pork and the second thing is related to that you talk about the other white meat well, it turns out that. This pork like there is nothing on it. It's all like. Eating last night for dinner because more than meet last night for dinner and more the Lord, this morning for breakfast. It's Brownish. Dark Red Melt in your mouth mitochondrial rich super nutrient, dense porgy. It's nothing like the dry lean pork united. I've of course as a former bodybuilder was a total lean chicken rice broccoli guy for years and did not know what I was missing out on when it comes to meet that truly is infused with these long chain, saturated fatty acids, and so it's just. Something you're missing out if you haven't had pork the way that it was it was it was supposed to originally be, and honestly the first time I really discovered pork. That way was when I started bow hunting in Hawaii where a lot of the wild pigs down there are feeding on avocado and Macadamia nuts and out in the pasture and I am I bow hunted a pig and brought it home and ate it. I was like Oh my goodness what I've been missing out on first. Pig supposed to take hello I'm so rudely interrupting today show because this is pretty cool. So you've probably heard of medicinal mushrooms before. Well, there are a ton of them. Let me give you just a few CHAGAS Reshi Curtis APPs lion's Mane should Taki mytalk no kit talk which you may not have heard it before but it's a striking mushroom with incredibly high antioxidant properties a Garic this may not have heard of that one too but it's also wonderful for immune support to pronounce but really good man Shema Mashima that's us in Japan for very long time to promote over wellbeing a Tremolo rose hip, which is technically not a mushroom but as a potent source of vitamin C well, those are. Just. A few of the different mushrooms that you find in the shotgun formula for my friends at forcing matic who have what's called a mushroom blend. 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Anyway, you got fifteen percent off of anything from beekeepers naturals just go to beekeepers, naturals, dot com slash. Ben That's B.. E. K. E. P. R. S. naturals, naturals, an s dot com slash Ben and that will get you fifteen percent off. You'll need a coat or anything just beekeepers natural dot com slash Ben, and you can fill up your medicine cabinet in your pantry and your refrigerator with all these wonderful wonderful product. So check him out and let's get back to the show. Let's do this just because I want to make sure we have time to get into the Croissant Diet Brad. Absolutely. What does all of this have to do with Khorasan's? So. As I was saying I also I have a love of food history and so as a low carb. I know that the traditional French diet, they combine butter and white flour, and sugar, and alcohol, and by and large. This has changed recently as they've added vegetable oil to their diet but traditionally, the French were very lean and there's there's a lot of points of evidence of this, and the same thing is true about people in upstate New York sort of pre nineteen sixty or seventy and I've got articles. I'm a blog about this called the French died and France and the French died and upstate New York. and. So I've had to live with his cognitive dissonance right of of saying well, if you need to like if you need to lose way, you should eat low carb. But on the other hand, I, know this other factors true that that societies that traditionally combined starch sugar and. Mostly, dairy fat mostly butter. Also have remained lean and and I. I didn't know how to write I didn't know how to resolve that cognitive dissonance until I dug back into hyper lipid, and now as a person seeing how polyunsaturated fats accumulate in the body of pigs and presumably if people and reading back through Peters theory that Ros production in advocates is dry is like a hugely important part of the cycle a question that I'd had my whole life was if I'm fat, then why am I hungry I? Clearly don't need the calories right and so the more I read Hyper Lipid and thought about the cycle The Post meals cycle of of how does one? How does one remain satiated? What causation? Like what How does the system work together I started to realize that yes, the mechanism Ros production in the might Okon Andrea of fat cells. Can sort of solve the cognitive dissonance right I thought that. Okay. So if I'm eating butter. With Starch, I'm initially gonNA feel full because my blood glucose rise and later I'm still going to be full because my my. are going to continue to do life policies. I'm still going to have energy available in my blood and so in theory. I could take something like croissant and I could lose weight by eating it. This was sort of like I really got that idea because one of the papers that I site and the RS theory of obesity is A. Is a student thesis where she was feeding mice, different combinations of starch and I think they all got forgive get the number. So the wrong around forty percent of their calories as fat one of them. Instead mostly steering guys said I think the other ones were fed monounsaturated and polyunsaturated and monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats. All became obese on those macro but the one given the steering acid, those mice remain lean. And I looked at that thinking with my chef background I mean literally that it looks like a croissant recipe, right? The the combination of saturated fat and starch. And? And that you know that was kind of like. Sort of a Eureka moment when I was able to start to solve this problem of why do the French remain lean eating a starch and butter which is obviously like that's like the third rail of most modern diets this idea of combining starch and fat together and eating that everybody like, no that's the last thing you WanNa do. When he was obviously. It's very counterintuitive and I have a couple of questions about this. You know about the actual recipe itself how you'd make the Sahn I doubt you're actually going to kroger's or rose ours and bike on there. I would imagine that there's something special about the long chain saturated fat content of the croissant actually make this. Appropriately healthy or conducive to weight loss and I want to hear a little bit about that. But the other thing that I'm curious about just for people who might not be as accustomed to croissants and I worked at a French bakery by the way I didn't tell you this brad look at French bakery for three years in college. So I spent a lot of time buying the counter serving up Crook Monster Woz and croissants, and what are the little chocolate ones filled with a cream the. Yeah. ECLAIRS. Clare. So anyways, when we're talking about Christine describe to people what kind of croissant we're talking about here you can even talk about how you're actually making this type thing because I'm sure people even wondering if this is something that can even pull off, you know being able to make a bunch of croissants e croissants. Sure. In Khorasan's obviously are a Labor of love there are a ton of work I happen to like to cook so for me. It was it was fun to to make the Khorasan's by the end, and if you go read my post introducing the Crisan Diet by the end had sort of given up on actually begging. Khorasan's after like three weeks. I started eating pancakes with roughly the same mackerels pancakes turns out can absorb a tremendous amount of fat I discovered but Yes. So when I came up with initial croissant recipe, you know. Instead of using butter, the mice were fed basically straight steering acid, which is an eighteen carbon length saturated fat. So it's basically the longest commonly found saturated fat and discovered that I could just buy this stuff on Amazon. And the stuff that I got more than by steering acid on Amazon right and I actually sell I'm actually I actually my blog you can actually buy ninety two percent pure food grade steer acid, which I think is that's on fire and a bottle dot net I think that's the only place that you can actually buy the really pure food grade stieg acid and this just come to your house like cut like coconut oil like in a glass container whatever. Well. So the funny thing about stare gossip. It has a melting point of like one hundred and sixty degrees Fahrenheit. So at room temperature, it's basically like candle wax. Which I wasn't really I I mean I hadn't thought that much about it. Right it just came in the mail and I was like l. what do I do this? This is I can't. I can't just eat this right. And I looked up papers in it's actually not very absorbable as is, and so that's when I realized I had to kind of like blend it down to get a fat that was edible and so what I started doing was basically making gay I would purify the fat out of the butter and I would mix as much stewart acid into that as possible, and then that's what I would use to make the croissants and croissants are very you have to like you make a dough and then you you roll it out and you like. Of the fat and that goes in there and then you folded over itself and then you roll it out and you fold it and you roll it your folder it and there's a lot of like refrigerating in the middle because you have to keep the butter really cold. Truly Labor of love. So I don't know I recommend. For most people to actually e- croissants but there are some if you want to try and approach like this, there are some easier recipes like there's a few look rich man's Brioche. This is very similar macro to actual croissants a lot easier to make. If. Someone you know wants to try sort of the literal version of the croissant diet. I've had other people who have had success. With On on a more keough version of the croissant diet just by literally limiting chicken and pork that that's actually what I was. GonNa ask you what why why are the starches in the croissant part of the Croissant Diet? So necessary I mean is this is it begs the question is this just like a publicity stunt because everybody knows what a croissant is or could you literally just like do pork lard and cocoa butter and butter, and some of this long chain saturated fats derek acid, and then have like vegetables right I wanted to prove that I could lose weight eating. Starch and fat together because my where I sort of came down on things is that despite the fact that removing carbohydrate clearly has beneficial effects for people in terms of weight loss. That doesn't necessarily mean that it's at the root cause of the initial reason for obesity. And so so I sort of wanted to prove that. As an actual obese person that I can lose weight. Eating this combination of starch and saturated. Fat. because. If I can then it kinda changes the whole way. That I'm thinking right about obesity. And so that's why I did it with croissants and obviously sure the croissants cheeky and it's funny because no, one thinks of crisanto weight loss food but no quite the contrary having said that after I posed the Crisanto Diet I've received any number of anecdotes from people saying you know when I went to France we would get up in the morning and we would have croissants and then we'd go hiking all day and I was never really hungry when I came back I stepped on the skill and I'd lost five pounds. You know this is this is a pretty common story from the number of times people at Senate to me and so. I am starting to believe the more that I played around with this with this that the. Having some starch in a meal and having that blood glucose rise after a meal may play an important role in in safety of rice. Blood Glucose rises also going to be accelerated by the fact that the cells are in a temporary sort of insulin resistance did the saturated fat that's being consumed along with the starches. So you might be creating scenario a little bit like when I, for example, I raced a tough mudder once where I consumed a couple servings of exogenous key tones and at. The same time did a couple of sports gels. So I had high fructose, High Maltodextrin Heike tones all simultaneously, and it was like rocket fuel for performance, and what you're saying is kind of like ferry dusting a bunch of long chain saturated saturated fatty acids with a glucose source such as the starch us when making a croissant might achieve a similar effect in terms of society for someone who wants to fewer calories but still not be you know knowing their arm off while they're on a diet. Exactly and I think that how I like to think about it and what I've seen that my this is going to be something scary that I'm GonNa say. That when I have one of these in recently I've been doing the same thing with with. French fries and. French fries in beef Suet, which is a very good source of both. Annual medic acid suicide is the kidney fat and it's the abdominal fat of cow and it's much more saturated than the rest of the fat on the cow. So it's a really good source of the types of fats that I'm that I'm looking for right and so I've been making these French fries and like. What I'll find is that my blood sugar will stay fairly elevated for a bunch of hours after eight these French fries with all of the beef suet and I think what's happening is I'm full until. The free fatty acids rise again after the meal and so by the Time My blood glucose comes down. My free fatty acids are up and I never have that post meal hunger, right? You know it's like I, wake up in the next day I'm barely hungry. Interesting and. You measure. Blood Glucose or key tones or anything like that I. DO I do and so I just did. A Twenty Day experiment that again is kind of jokingly named but I call it the feasting mimicking diet. With, the idea that I was trying to like a large meal and that I wanted to. Remain as. satiated as possible for many hours, post meal, and so this is the meal that I designed. It's very high and beef suet and long chain saturated fat and and fairly high in starch not actually that I mean. The. The biggest meals may be have a hundred and fifty grams of start. So it's it's enough starch that that gets my blood sugar up and post meal and I stay full It's not enough starts to knock me out of Ketosis by the next morning. So so I've been doing that and. I'm sorry I. Forgot Your initial question was but My question was whether it had to be a croissant and it sounds like there are some variants of the Diet with the overall goal being small amounts of carbohydrates and a lot of these long chain saturated fats, and again if folks go to Ben Greenville, dot, com slash croissant diet all linked to some of the articles that you wrote to I. Think someone who's who's who's pretty pretty handy around the kitchen could figure out ways to do this study necessarily being croissants but that being said How many croissants and about how many calories per day were you eating for the type of weight loss that you experienced on this diet? So I was eating I was I was more or less eating when I was hungry. I would typically make two of the croissants and I would. I would try to finish. Them. And I would make sandwiches. So I would put cheese and eggs in Dawson, John, them or whatever, and I was struggling to finish to them with all of the with all of the steer acid content in there and that is not. That's kind of a new experience for me I started feeling this like wave of of of satiafaction into a meal that was honestly kind of a new experience for me like. I've always been one to like. It's like well, have already had thirds. Am I gonNA go for fourths in? It's not that I'm it's right. I don't stop eating because I'm full or feel satisfied I just. It's like my stomach is starting to hurt and I've already know filled my plate three times. So I guess I should stop eating right and so when I started doing this with the with the long chain saturated fats like I was. The station was powerful. And that's when I kinda started feeling I was onto something. So yeah, I. So I would make these two sandwiches maybe in the morning and then. I would I would usually like one and a half of them. Sometimes I'd finish them, and then I wouldn't have to eat again you know I wouldn't be hungry until. At least that evening and then I started noticing the and then the next day I started going longer and longer into the day before I was hungry and then there was a couple of times I literally I got doing something and I just forgot to make dinner. I mean I just never even thought about it. I didn't get hungry and. I've I've never skipped at dinner in my adult life, and so the fact that I I hadn't planned to do it that way it just sort of happened because I was writing and doing other things and I just wasn't paying attention and I fell asleep and I woke up the next day and I was like, what did I have for? Last night and I had. So I, found I found a huge effect on satiafaction I wasn't tracking calories or Mac I mean the macro I can tell you were were very high I think the Crisanto around you know seventy percent calories from fat and. you know with the rest with most of the rest being starch I wasn't tracking calories but I, you know I wasn't eating. A tiny it's not like I was like Sisk. Eating tiny amounts of calories either croissants. Sandwiches with wine is still quite a bit of calories, right? and. So on my new I've been doing this feasting man died. That's a lot clear like I have a lot more. If you can say I posted results a couple of weeks ago on the blog and that one there's a lot more information about macro and calories and Blood Glucose at all different times of the day and tones and and my weight, and and Yeah you've got a pretty comprehensively laid out on your site and have other people been trying this diet and experiencing. Good Good Appetite Association Weight Loss Cetera. I've had a lot of good reports back. There's one Emmy was has been very popular. I. Just posted called Emmy Story, but she's someone who was struggling to lose weight on a basically. Almost pure carnivore diet and she switched from Lega say switched away from chicken and pork fat and towards a combination of of butter and cocoa butter that she was using a vast source and all of a sudden she started to lose weight and actually after a few months or weight loss accelerated and she hit her target weight and did even better and the only real thing she changed in her diet was the types of fats she was getting not even necessarily the amounts of fats she was getting so that that to me is a is A. Sign that. You know this is real. There is something to it and there's lots of studies in mice that that show this exact thing and and you can see those on they are their visa. You can also see on hyper lipid. So you know I felt like I had a really good reason to expect this to work because it does work. So well in the mice and because you know we do know kind of the mechanism behind it and it worked for me and that was cool and fun. But now when I see working and people like that, you know it's like. Okay, exhale this is good. I'm not just a crazy person. I have a few little comments first of all elk hunting in a couple of weeks and I I was pleased to see when I was researching for this interview that the back fat on wild elk is actually extremely high instead acid than cocoa butter and butter. Really the only two things that can find that higher than it was that steer acid enhanced butter oil that you have on your website and then go. Oil, and so I'm looking forward to having even more stomach acid on hand for my own appetites aviation because I'm one of those guys who will just think and think and think about my next meal unless shale that I've eaten is properly comprised and I've found that having meals include a lot of these long chain. Saturated fats is quite helpful for that. Now that being said I'm sure that you've been challenged on this before. But there is some evidence out there that from gut standpoint that a high saturated fat diet might induce something called endotoxin Mea. I've talked about this before about these these leipold polysaccharide that can cause one to get brain fog show signs of almost like a toxin release after a meal, and it appears that post-prandial inflammatory response is something that a tends to be triggered by a high saturated fat diet and be tends to. Be Even more pro inflammatory. A high saturated fat diet is also inclusive of carbohydrates a high fat high carb meal. Thus dictating that it's possible that a croissant would induce endotoxin. Mia Vio light polysaccharide production. How have you seen people responding or have you yourself responded when it comes to the way that your gut feels or any type of brain fog after these type of of high staerk acid feedings, I haven't noticed any real. Downside personally, I mean, I will tell you that. especially. The way that I'm doing things now I'm trying to get basically all of my calories for the next as many as forty eight hours in a very short kind of time restricted eating window. So. After that meal I am very lethargic. Let's say why digest but I don't I don't attribute that to being really a brain fog type effect and I'll be honest that that I'm not this is not a topic I'm as well versed on I've I've read some things about it. I'm I'm kind of. Unsure and so what I will say is that. You know when I look at again. As as a chef and as a lover of food history. would. I go back to is I look at? Generations. Generations thousands of years of of French and Irish and hundreds of years of Americans, following this very traditional dietary patterns pattern, and by the way, it's not just European descendant cultures. You can also see those same patterns in like the mountains, of Tibet, with like Yak and she purrs eating cheese and noodle or sorry butter and noodles together You know a daring cultures in Africa doing the same thing and so you know an all dairy based cultures which are have pretty much been on every continent except for. Antarctica, you see this basic pattern of eating. Butter and starch musically. and. So I feel like. You know there's a lot of things that that we're doing as a society that I think can affect our gut health I my. Pardon the PUN. My Gut feeling is that when I say that just because we remove carbohydrate and that maybe helps people lose weight doesn't necessarily mean that carbohydrates are the root of the problem I tend to believe it's too much linoleic acid. I think with the gut health thing I. It's a little hard for me to believe that consuming. Saturated fat and starts together is that. Pro Inflammatory and yet a huge percentage of the world's population has lived on exactly that diet for hundreds of years now. Yeah and I'm going to throw this out for you It appears that in many cases when endotoxin MIA markers are measured specifically lie polysaccharide responses to. High. Fat. That, the inclusion and there are multiple studies that show this. The inclusion of plant polyphenyls. Some amounts of fiber, and then some flannels such as you would get from dark berries seems to get rid of that lie polysaccharide response meaning that you could argue that if you were to include like some nice like vegetable powders even something like Broccoli sprouts because so for Fain appears to protect against small intestine macossa issues. Specifically. Related ACA rides a bilberries blueberries have been studied for this grape extract like grape skins, which is very interesting because I know you're you're into. The Wild and croissants? Yes. Exactly. All of this stuff seems to actually limit that that that that a light polysaccharide response so one could argue that you know you could have your croissant but have you know a nice glass of red wine or a handful of bilberries or blueberries or you know something like on a croissant sandwich have your Broccoli sprouts and you would actually limit this amount of endotoxin which which Is I, find pretty pretty fascinating, and of course, it's a perfect segue because I do want to ask you about the wine diet. Now before I ask you about the wine, Diet what I should tell folks is There's a lot more about the croissant diet on Brad's website and I'd be very curious what kind of questions you guys have, and if any of you have tried this diet or just. If you listen to this podcast and you decide to increase your intake of some of these high sturrock acid or high long chain, saturated fatty acid sources, and it's it's pretty easy to Google food sources of long chain, saturated fatty acids, or you could just go to Brad's website where he has a lot listed no link to his website and everything has to Ben Greenville fitness dot com slash croissant diet. But that all being said that long segue a tell tell me about what's going on with the whole wine part of this French approach to living that makes my wife. Love you so much Brad. Yes so if you go to fire bottle dot net, I have a fairly reimpose called that I call wine fasting and. So I'm a wine drinker I've made no secrets about this or apologies about it on my blog. I drink. Plentiful wine. As. A lot of the French historically did and there's a lot of America well, Americans. Traditionally, drink that much wine, but they drank a lot of spirits. And so disclaimer I'm not trying to encourage anyone to start drinking who doesn't drink or anything like that. But I realized that I know a lot of people who consume alcohol and I I think it's mostly okay as long as. You know you can't control yourself and and you you're being smart about the rest of your diet, etc.. So that's kind of my place in this. But one thing that I've found is that So ethanol as a fuel has a couple of interesting properties. One is that it does not stimulate insulin release. And two is that for me anyway, it hits my hunger and so. It's sort of a one of those mistaken things where I said that I forgot that you dinner. When I did the first nation of the Diet it was like. Sure. You know it was six or seven I opened a bottle of wine and I drank that and then I went to bed and I woke up the next day and I was I don't remember. What I have for dinner and I was like my God didn't have dinner and that's you know and that was sort of when I realized like. Okay well. Wine is this thing that I can. If I want to quote fast. In the evening you know I start getting like fidgety I'm not even necessarily hungry but I'm fidgety and I feel like making dinner that's I normally dinner and I'm like well, I want to put a fasting day in and so I realized that sure I could just a drink some wine and go to bed and It was an easy way for me to fast and I'm defining fasting as a pattern of food which doesn't stimulate insulin. Which I think it is interesting though just to play devil's advocate here because both fructose and ethanol, of course, both of which you find an appreciable amounts and wine also induce some amount of Leptin resistance. Thus making me think that if you were just drinking wine, you'd get hungrier because you're you're lowering your ability to be able to respond to your appetite regulating. Hormone Leptin. But what you're arguing is that perhaps the fact that you're getting calories from the ethanol but you're also not causing release of insulin or perhaps even getting a little bit of that insulin resistance. As you'd get with the steering acid, you're technically leaving substrates in the bloodstream for a longer period of time, which might actually override any type of Leptin resistance. Yes, and so one interesting thing about this is that some people when they consume alcohol, they become hypoglycemic because. Alcohol can inhibit gluconeogenesis in the liver. and. So your blood sugar can go down and I believe that contributes to sort of you know people who drink occasionally and then go out for late night slices a pizza or whatever I've found that if you and there's also rodent studies on this as well. That if you sort of normally drank alcohol, it doesn't affect your blood levels I've done the test where I've. Taken my blood sugar multiple times over several hours while I'm consuming wine and I don't see any blood glucose change at all. I don't I don't personally see much. Are you pretty careful with the whole pesticide or beside component? You do you drink organic or about an IMAC wines or folks try to you know as much as I can afford them. But yeah. No. I try to do as as as well as I can right on on the quality of the wine. Yeah and so that basically the. Wine fasting thing. It's it's just simply. I found it works for me and I thought it was interesting and I. I didn't WanNa shy away about talking it even about talking about it even though I know it's it's it's a controversial idea, right but. I don't think we gain anything by not talking about controversial things. Yeah. Yeah. Have you read any articles about the wine diet or your your thoughts on the science behind that? Yes. A bottle dot net. There's an article called wine fasting and it talks about the insulin release although I'm actually thinking about writing a whole series about ethanol metabolism coming up because I think it's underexplored. And I think there's a lot of there's a lot of interesting things that we can say about it And so yeah, that will probably be upcoming I'm also planning a series of articles about on fire in a bottle about a kind of the the history of these agricultural systems and the homestead and what it represented and I feel like we're having a lot of discussions in the community these days You know you've got the Vegan vegans on the one hand and you've got carnivores on the other end of the spectrum and all these people in between and I feel a lot of the people don't have a basic understanding of the agricultural system and how why it evolved the way that. It did how did we? How did we get here right and how you know an and like how are we? So also far apart on food and how I think that stems from being disconnected from the basics of agriculture and how that all works so that's my other big series going to be working on the next year but FA, fascinating you know it is really interesting because if you actually do look at very similar to the low policies, response to these long chains aspirated fats there are some studies that show the alcohol enhances policies forces the fat cells to release fatty acids. And so I think that's interesting and then the other thing is that we look at this from an epidemiological standpoint and specifically the the Greek Orthodox Church, which is where a lot of our our Mediterranean fastening type of principles come from that. There is in addition to some elements of protein restriction during periods of the year in that Diet a a a a great deal of oil fasting and wine fasting days, and so yes, that's quite interesting as well and I mean man if if you're telling me that I can be cognizant of the number of calories that consume that I drink a nice. Dry organic red wine on a pretty regular basis that I can have my long chain saturated fats in the forms of wild elk back fat and coconut oil and a croissants perhaps even to some extent and pork Lard, which I'm totally behind or any other worksource from a from a good passer pork I mean I could probably go to a desert island with that type of diet and have a smile on my face for a pretty appreciable amounts of time. I think one thing we should really really point out forks because I see people making this mistake all the time especially in the Kito sector. Fat Bombs for breakfast lunch, and like we're talking about extremely caloric dense food sources here. So you need to understand how simple it would be for you to easily over consume calories and I am at the very end of the day a calories in calories out guy I mean foundationally, you do need to understand that you're not gonNA lose weight if you're eating more calories than you're burning and so a big part of this is that you need to understand. That this diet will satiate the appetite and therefore that appetites association said, get dictate that you're shoving food into your gaping maw. So that's a big part of this. Don't get on the croissant diet and then go leave a comment on the blog posts that it didn't help you at all because maybe you were just eating too many croissants you. French fool. So there you have it Brad we are just about out of time now I want to I WANNA make a couple closing comments First of all, as you mentioned, you've got. Low polyunsaturated, fatty acid pork, which is great and and so that's the type of stuff you're on your farm and I'm getting a link to that firebrand meets in the show notes for people and as we were discussing before, this show may between now and the time show comes out if you come up with some kind of low code, people could use to order some of your some of your wonderful meet then. That's a that's a full on win win The other thing is when I'm going on my l. kind and this is also talk of caught my mind because I got a bunch of these bad boys upstairs in the garage right now I'm taking a bunch of these these Kito bricks with me just discovered these things Kito bricks and I don't know if you've heard of these Brad but Sarah their cacao. Butter and steering acid in this giant thousand Calorie Kito brick. So if I have one of those reach of my hunt days, maybe two depending on on how far going I'm literally planning on kind of doing almost a version of the croissant diet during a six-day hunt in New Mexico. Coming up here in a couple of weeks might be able to report back on on how this manifest in the field using these. Using these Kito bricks which also linked to in the show notes if people WANNA try those. Nice I. Love It. Well, you can always have you know one of those for breakfast and then and then some wine for dinner well in an ideal scenario having back back for dinner for because I had. Better of both right or. Curious How. Much back fat is on an elk. Decent amount but it but you know elk is a pretty lean animal. So not as much as you'd find an pork nine work close to it but share a or or a pig I should say but yeah I think I think any probably get get a little bit of Elkin. Also depends how cold it is and that's going to dictate in many cases. The amount of fat in animal is storing, which is why Caribou and reindeer have huge amounts of especially like Dha mega three fatty acids higher than that fish. Right but but you don't see in the lean whitetail out in the summer spokane in my backyard. So I, I wanted just make a quick. A quick input here you've mentioned earlier in the show about all the pollen saturates and how they affect s production. I'd like to differentiate so very long chain fats, things like Dj the you find and fish and seafood they are digested differently they go into paroxysms and get broken down there. So I'm not sure that fifty long chain very long chain polyunsaturated Fats Lake Dha will affect our production because of their great length I just wanted to say what we're not that's a good point. So so you're you're saying that potentially if one were to be concerned. About the ability of some of the fast, that are unsaturated to limit all of the different biochemical responses that we just talked about that. You could probably do something like whatever let's say you're going to have a to to meal a day. Diet and have a Christopher breath. You could have like some wild salmon for dinner as probably not GonNa hit much of that response. Absolutely. I think I think you're pretty safe with you know the amounts of fish oil or long-term saturated fat what whatever you WanNa call it found in natural foods like salmon I think that's okay. Awesome cool. Well, I think people can get on board fish wine croissants. Brad. This is fascinating and again, all linked to everything that Brad and I've been discussing for those of you interested. If you go to Ben Greenfield fitness, dot com slash croissants Diet that C. R. O. S. S. Anti there I spelled a for you in group dot com slash croissants diet link to all the research all linked to the the different meat sources, a link to to Peters. hyperloop website everything and in the meantime Brad fascinating stuff. Thanks coming on the show and all this with us. Thank you. Thank you and yes everyone the meat at firebrand meets is going to be fantastic. We got Berkshire pigs very very. It's going to be very low pork. It's GonNa be the firm is pork fat. You'll ever see. So check that out and if anyone wants to follow me on. Twitter I am fire underscore bottle as my handle on twitter. So I'm pretty active islander. Awesome. Thank you. Cool. All right folks will until I'm Ben. Greenfield. Along with Brad Marshall Fire in a bottle signing out from Ben Greenfield finished dot com an amazing week. Will thanks for listening to today's show you can grab all the show notes resources pretty much everything that I mentioned at Ben Greenfield fitness dot com along with plenty of other goodies from me including the highly helpful Ben Recommends Page, which is a list of pretty much everything that I've ever recommended for hormone sleep digestion fat loss performance plenty more please also know that all the links all. The Promo codes that I mentioned during this in every episode helped to make this podcast happen and to generate income that enables me to keep bringing you this content every single week. So when you listen in, be sure to use the links in the show notes, use the Promo code the generate because that helps to float this thing and keep it coming to you each and every week.
1158 Stephen Hsu PhD, Professor of Oral Biology, Founder of Camellix, MighTeaFlow, ReviTeaLize, AverTeaX & ProtectTeaV : Dentistry Uncensored with Howard Farran
"It's just a huge honor free today to be podcast, Dr Steven shoe PHD. He's the founder and chairman of camillus of professor of oral biology and diagnostic he's a tenured professor of oral biology and diagnostic sciences at the dental college. Georgia a world renowned expert in green tea polythene research and inventor of green tea technology products and medications, which treat dry mouth, dander of hair loss, cold sores and viral infections with natural ingredients, Dr shoe was awarded seven patents on novel technologies targeting autoimmune disease herpes simplex virus virus, induce infections and salivary dysfunctions like zero St. Mia doctors shoes been selected as a Ted speaker. I watched that again today. That's why call them to be on the show. You have to watch. His Ted talk is just amazing. I hope he goes over some of his Ted talk today. He received the international. Association for dental research with DR for GS K innovation and oral care award in twenty eleven in two thousand fifteen he received the Georgia bio innovation award for his unique inventions. He received the oral discoveries and invention award from the Georgia dental association. Dr she has been invited appear on numerous TV and radio podcast programs frequently invited to international conferences, a keynote speaker. He earned a bachelor degree in biochemistry for MU university in the city of Wuhan China after a six-year forced labor experience in rural farm in China after moving to the United States received a masters of arts degree in molecular biology from Monto Montclair state university of New Jersey and PD and cell, biology and anatomy from the university of Cincinnati college of medicine he completed a postdoctoral fellowship at Memorial Sloan Keating cancer center, New York City before a career change. Television during the four years as a television commentator and sports anchor for ESPN international, Dr shootout at the National University of Singapore as a lecture in ninety eight they receive the Ruth l Kirstein research ward from the National Cancer Institute and conducted cancer research at New York University school of medicine, Dr Xu joined the Gusta university, formerly known as the medical Georgia in ninety nine and serves as course director for nutrition, and course, director for biochemistry in the department of oral biology and diagnostic services, he has joint appointments in the institute of molecular medicine and genetics and the grad school, he is former president of the Georgia chapter of the American Association for dental research and a member of the American Association of cancer research and the international association for dental research. He has published more than seventy research articles in peer reviewed scientific journals eight books or chapters has. Presented his research findings of scientific meetings worldwide as well as lectured for C courses to dentist high jettison, pharmacists, he has served as a reviewer of grant applications for the NIH the department of defense, the National University of Singapore and for numerous scientific journals Dr shoes research has been funded by the NIH and the department of defense. I d are Georgia research alliance among other organizations, he is collaborated with researchers representing the fills of oral biology and maximum facial pathology dermatology. Virology and molecular biology from the universities in the United States, China, Japan, he and his wife, Tracy, live and Evans, Georgia with their sons Alexander and Andrew my gosh. I going to say, you are the smartest person. I've ever had come on my show. Thank you so much for coming on the show today to talk to all these dentists and hygienists commuting to work. How are you doing today? Are they good nice? Here. Thank you for the reduction. My gosh, your Ted talk. I mean, I think people I think people especially these young kids. They don't realize the cultural revolution you live through there. I don't know if you wanted to start with that. But. Sister with the culture of Lucien because so many kids they don't even know about it. Culture world. Actually you start in ninety sixty six quite a long time ago. Nineteen sixty six ninety six six, okay. I was a just became a teenager just became teenager. So I actually live this dean tire at the sold these kiosks tragedy and all these kind of up broken families and people so many people died and persecuted. So my family was one of them my family -tuni- background because my father came back from United States to China. He went back to China because my grandpa was ills, and then he was trapped in China and never ahead of pension to to get the country so time my father was accused s a CIA spy. So by five eighty was totally turned upside down and. Therefore, I was not given any education opportunity. So after the middle school, I was forced to go to the labor candidate me advocation reeducate at so went to the labor camp while sixteen and all the way -til was twenty three before on the revolution was all over in ninety sixty seventy six therefore, I could have opportunity to go to college. And then so hard and eventually getting to university passing the college entrance exam. And that's that's what I started. And then eventually become what I'm writing that. The how many how many people actually died. Do you think in the culture of Lucien of for me? You know, see, I was like Levin. Twelve years old. I have witness witnessed a lot of people come to sway side persecuted. They couldn't take anymore. Also for people counter-revoltionary that they were just them abroad to somewhere big media and get shot after that by the ops squat of the as slot. So I with isn't so many of them and also there there was among fighting between lot of grooves. They follow as the wiz cannons unit. Believe are not with automatic weapons. So I also with nece that so that was. Big chaos in the whole country. You know, the reason I want to serve that as a lot of kids are listening. I now probably about a quarter of the people listen to you are still in dental school and the rest are probably under thirty millennials old people like you, and I read books and journals and papers, and they they like internet and a lot of them are playing violin filling sorry for themselves because they're graduating with four hundred thousand dollars a student loans. I'm like well were you born and raised during the cultural revolution? I mean, these kids today that are that that are crying in their SUV. Don't realize some of the horrors that the last generation lived through. Exciting news. So I'm was media fortunate. That was just wind the fortunates up person that actually I could through hard work to get education college education. But my peers all these minnows Foale kids day, we went to the farm. The majority ninety nine percent of them do not get reasonable education. So right now, they're all retired at not we're not, you know, we tyrant age for China is sixteen years. They'll all retire. I'm still working hard. Oh, so happy must contributing to mankind entered into the dentistry and medicine. Well, I wanna ask you before. We start is how do people like yourself remain positive through such are times. I mean, you I would give you so much credit. If you just were depressed and drunk and just, you know, just wallowing. And you know, how did you come out of? This was such a positive productive attitude. I think that's their lot of factors. The other. The major factor is that from my family background for me for me is from by by family by round. So shoe family has a long long history in the Chinese. And so our family for several generations has been doing pretty well. Under. He also served the garment, and he's got a he's big brother. My Grandpa's brother wasn't the president of China Eastern towns shoe. He was a present from nineteen eighteen to twenty two. And so I have a lot of good role models to make sure that I need to country the to the people, and so I was determined in. Also, I was in such harsh of situation during the time that I lost hope almost. So I saw vives that labor campus survived the cultural Washington, and I made made it to a higher education. Therefore for me. I would say, you know, I was very focused and make sure that I'll move forward and the make sure all these effort will be benefiting the. The human population, especially for the Americans, and because I came over here as a young man and receive all these support from American taxpayers when those starters you have for PHD all of these taxpayers and glance or refunded they Ninian's from the federal government. So I'm so oppression for the support. So I'm to achieve a lot of things that you might go. And so we're we're working hard in the good teams working hard to make sure that our products will be the best most effective and Takao people. Why do they call you the green tea Dr? The guys drinking all the time. It's not because of that is not because when I'm drinking the the benefits of green tea that really helped me Babar already in the years when what way in the farm because in the farm. There was no running water. There was no. Pointed system, so we we have been drinking all dirty water that collected all kinds of whatever contaminations. Therefore, I I was a security he'll and into the probably the germs and then demo- co farmers local farmers day just told me as you can drink something, the boy leaves and boiled in this. This is the TV's all the Teves. So I will actually benefit from the green tea actually from plenty during my only time that helped my my diarrhea and the combination. I really don't. So I had some ready self a personal experience alward the benefits. They've why came over here twenty years ago. Kenny are and study the benefits of Wiki compounds because green tea was created. Origin only as a medicine in China. A later a thousand years ago, sell the is going became a very popular beverage therefore amount of people. They just drinking this beverage. However, people did not forget it hasn't medecinal benefits by the that that is was a potential a need to be brought out on that. I was the one that augmenting a lot of work on the benefit these compounds. How to mate his compounds big inform elation for different variety of products and potentially drugs to help people. So because this is none toxic those natural. And also has a lot of multiple multiple benefits onto oxygen online inflammatory and are United so many research known the ten thousand publication already being big on that you can search. So I always. Think of the of the western hemisphere, the Americas as coffee drinking and the eastern atmosphere Europe, African China's teed do see T rising up against coffee. Well, why are you talking about a coffee is very popular in the whole world actually in China, and Japan, you know, you go anywhere, even the t- twinking countries day adopted a new a lot of coffee because Starbucks Starbucks opened everywhere in China, and Japan, you can find all the airport how amber t twinking actually increase year after year after year and teetering special. Green tea drinking has rowing for multiple phones in certain countries, including the United States, they're alive, but import of green, tea and other types of T, therefore, we see a very big increase in tea consumption, India, nited states. So that's a good thing. That's a very good thing combined with many other behavior changes that we see the benefit can be. A received by people population consume teed consume green teed. Also, they copy coffee has benefits to cardiovascular other. Benefits. So therefore, we call with getting getting healthier a healthy. So you're talking about the journey of starting collects. And what exactly does that name mean? Camella cts. For a scientific name of the key clans called a Minia CNN's ass-. Therefore, we're talking about a how come we utilize the compound to come bird into watts medications to help people? Therefore, we use the first camelia, and then we put X at the last axes prescription Nolan day. Some prescription drug will come. There is already one prescription drug from great compa though, going to be more. So therefore for green tea to be used in medicine UIL purpose as the name of commitments while that is I learned something everyday so Camilla the name of your company is from Kamilia finesses, which is a species of evergreen shrub or small tree whose leaves and leaf buds are used. To produce tea white tea, yellow tea, green tea, dark, tea and black tea are all harvested from one or the other but are processed differently to attain. Varying degrees now now talk about your journey of starting this company. Are you what kind of green tea products? Are. You are see mighty flow. I see all kinds of different products. What are what are you what green tea products? Are you selling? The first one that we have developed the first one to four on the mighty role product is D mighty flow joy mouse chewing gum. So that's very first as still right now this discounts this so this gum on this. Steele selling very well. And so welcomed by the people with Zere still Mia. So that's the first product developed. I I was serving as a consultant before commencement form. A later on our school, the technology transfer office encouraging me to apply for some grants from the state. The Georgia research alliance to form a company that the by products on our you mentions are cotton's. So the beginning. I was just like all I'm professor I'll I'm t-. I'm doing research. I cannot be business leader, but they encouraged me to try that. And so we get duck rantel get our offer relations gather and the way began dependent and then the we start our product line. So the first product will be the the house to a later when you buy this very popular this by popular lozenge. Joe does the lozenge fake? Explain the the name is it might is. It might if he'll flow the mighty mighty flow. The mighty float. Right. It is soda in many, given the small pharmacy ease unli- Amazon amount. We have the same bias small this small a bottle of this the spray you can just for people better comedian just spray into their or cavity. And then a big bottles of did the the rinse also the we have wound up to lying up for crime. Because it was so many people that day don't know which one is best for them. So we search laws lot. We have a dental team have a dentist. We have statistician by law Thala, just by all these expert put together to about this formula and on top of that way. Could that swim into clinical trial Jahr dental school, then he'll of Georgia, and then afterward the twilight Di we found actually the Flemish actually can restore stimulating Taiwan? Restore the function these partially of the salivary a land down means Unst stimulates saliva. Adamant four hundred fo a four hundred percent four hundred percent for vote inquiries, yet kinds cumulated slamma this. This is something unheard off. He'll you see a lot of product stimulant. Of course as delayed you chew of a waxy can stimulate, but for humid, Siva dashes, dump need is liable for people suffer from miles because without without stimulation day, our saliva flows in various SNL, so all me when Dade restored their salary gleaned function, then they can improve their quality of life that executive we did. And then as Dottie polished. So look let's back up a little bit on who suffers from dry mouth zero. Steamy. The biggest publishing biggest. Percentage summer from komo's are the people taking a nod of prescription medications are what than four hundred medications common. Medication a cause dry mouth. So you'd be Hugh watching the commercials at the end of a commercial. There's all this. This could cause dry trials are so many of them. And then there is a small population of one to three million of those people they suffer from a disease color show wins syndrome. Does people they have the most severe dry mouse because their salary Glante's attacked by their own immune system, therefore the function as lost. And then there's some population be publishing their cancer therapy. A patient accommodations after therapy, chemo or radiation therapy on credit, neck cancer day will suffer not only miles other. In the federal laws. Different problem. Our factions Uniworld cabin. Well, we'll have you go to dental town and there's a quarter million dentist on dental town. And our we're coming up on our twenty year anniversary the Saint Patrick's Day. But if you do a search for sojourns syndrome you find so many threads on children's. I wish you would go. I wish you would go on dental town do a search for dry mouth zero Stomas. Trojans and post some of these videos that I know what their first question's gonna be. How does how does green tea extracts from your company camillus out? Does it actually treat zero Estonia? Zeros dole. Mea is something that people they feel mouse what is different than be salary collander dysfunction. So we call them zero stole me a lot of people in print together. I give a lot of lectures, a lot of sees. Or to tell them the difference is some people they feel dry, but actually do not have a settlement function on a won't. We talk about is the people wiz lead us saliva flown. Dass the big problem of causing complications. So therefore way deal out on a study. So I do some seller study molecular study, and then we eventually was to in animal models went into three animal. Studies and base now on his shoulders model that are Salman exams attacked by necessity nutrition and then getting damaged so therefore that they aren't they are very calls whom a human show wtn's. Cases unpolished therefore, we've found that, you know, before the unsaid of the disease, actually, dare Glanville already had some changes the DNA damage caused by free radicals were apparent and then the enzymes fighting these free radicals decrease. Eventually eventually day will news the function in about that whole dust the problem indie of secretly clan. Like summer gland electa came quiz lateral gland. All these getting attacked therefore the animals actually drinking the compounds Fukuda compounds. Very little, you fact, compared to the animals that drinking only water. So we thought wow, something something is happening to Radi Keith the norm in the glands in the one Moung the compounds grinchey were introduce in g Uber the animal models. Therefore, we believe that the compounds actually can lady help wiz the glandular function would allow further research on certain enzymes in signal transmission atamans, and we found that was the case therefore the blue of us with Dr Dorothy, Dr Burkey, Dr Dickenson a doctor looney and also but big team up big team so waste start with search four the formula. And we try different combinations of natural compounds and other plan compounds we tried and then. One down one the formulation that we has a very prolonged her lung effect for celebrate flow rate. Therefore, we made that as mighty slow the cheese in the middle and the flow of Siwa. So that come up the name and the Florida. I've been reading a lot lately that they're starting to find now that everybody's donating their DNA and finding out their ancestry, and they've got millions ambles Evered some papers. Some researchers are finding out that these auto immune disease tend to Coster and families, especially. Like if someone in your like type one diabetes arthritis silly acts Pru. Multiple sclerosis, I is unsure syndrome that they're finding those in family tree. So there there has to be a genetic component. Then wouldn't there must be? Yes, I agree with you. Absolutely. And also the population difference too. And for example, the type one those type one. The diabetes and also showed ones are hiding western countries. But not very high in China does a big difference, and the could be genetic could be environment that could be combination genetic environmental factors, and I think in Japan, you can see similar trend till therefore, you know, if you compare the grinchey consuming population versus alone Winky consummate population that you could see a lot of difference. And when these people come over here. So these people like the Asian people jumping out Chinese people coming here in the US and day in the environment. And that you see those disease a lot of different disease that you quiz like like brass Kansan, Jeff Wayne sent. So this is something that does signed his deal Twi to unveil on the of the calls and the mechanism when you say if higher in. There's more auto moon, like silly expert in all that in western versus turn some people link that because. Westerners? Eat more, wheat were Asians, eat more rice. And that there is a very big difference between wheat and rice as far as number of genes, chromosomes, etc. Do you think diet plays into that factor? Too. Obsolete. Diet is is a big human behavior factor that between the western than between the population some different dight structures of, but but you look into Japan book at Japan day, have quite different diet. System done them than us. And they stay that way. They don't change see day Radi key battling. So you can see the average alive live expectancy, the different disease day aren't quite stable. But in China. After the Kentucky Fried Chicken opened in nineteen eighty nine in Beijing way. Saul she owed challenge of everything. Now, China's took over of the biggest obesity population in the world China is number one now. Oh my God. He came in. And China took over the type two diabetes, the absolute number and the percentage of the world as number. What you see how fast, you know, fourteen years forty years passed a UC all these kind of behavior challenges led to the populations shell status. Adad is something radio alarming e Nieto as the no I'm the quest yard up on your training. I'm trying to you know, watch people how to eat how to access is on a move amend. Now, we see there's a trend Kesse. Rated going dies that from the nineteen nineties a cancer by going down in US right now because on suspicion of smoking. Barra's simple change behavior. One beat that you'll disease statistic chance abide significantly. All we wish to long way to go to to study, the U R, mental impact shells, particular publish. Well. I think your company is on the right track. Because I'm we know the one of the major differences I'm saying thirty years after graduation Donald school as is patients on what to dry something natural. They they're they're tired. They've lost. Trust him. Big pharma. I mean, you're you're an expert in viruses. I mean, I mean, did you ever think we'd be having measles outbreaks because millennials don't believe I've actually talking? This is shocking. The measles now is topping out. The outbreak in so many states he knew US and some other part of the world. So that's something that because people they ignored for a long time. All means all of you know, we have backs innate in you know, the public. No problem. I'll while did come back. You know, the virus? United study buyers along virus date are not stupid. You know day are smart day. No, they know how to hide for example, Fergus, you cannot divide up a har- piece to Maxine way spend so much money. So many some so much time they hide from your immune system or that did come out. They'll hurt you. And also like a measles dates Popov under flags there's some other popular on the door ours. Nora LARs, e you know, amber year in the United States twenty one million people get. In fact, it and then every year there was no reduction. We we have you know, all kinds of prevention which guideline would fires. Norovirus, nor wars Nuoro is a the ship Boris are all in Ouro cruise ship Boras norovirus. So our grant from the age so funded us one point four million dollars to study and to develop a approach using spray. Ten sign Tyzzer and white that contains green tea compounds against north to get rid of them. So that's the current project were doing now, you can see that these viruses ill day are not going away. Dave have all kinds of resistant strands coming out you have a drug digging. Valerie system, you have another drug debut, Adiba resistant. So sometime people that all yeah. Wait, we we have vaccine with you about you back sees, well, all you can see the flu the food that. Well, how many back sees the have the flu virus keep changing? And then which just sometimes we're women this though, you know, have to pretend for next year. So you predictions around than the flow would become a pedantic legs last year ninety twenty seventeen twenty eighteen pandemic. I I always think it's funny. When people they always, you know, humans are always biased about themselves, everything revolves around humans, and they always talk about what's the chance that humans will kill extinct each other in World War three. It's like, dude. I think you have a much higher chance of getting extinct from a virus or a comet hitting the earth than being than having all the humans, Kelly other. What do you think is more diverse? Yeah. I mean, they say they say half of all the hundred billion humans that ever lived died of malaria. Dying from malaria too, and especially in in those countries in Africa. But when we talk on the wireless anytime buyers, yet a hundred years ago a hundred years ago in Spain has diamond in Spain up to a fifty million people this biped amount is a flu virus is nothing special is a Flaubert's, but his more more pathologic a cause more severe a problem. So we have something that reiterating the alarm is already a sound by the world of house of organization day listed, the top ten microorganisms actually web humans out all of ours. You chat on that. And all of what was that list called? What what was that list called the top ten? What are the top ten buyers a top ten germs that the need priority than top priority? To D by up approaches to prevent and the tweet a world hell, I will send you that formation of you L. I wish you'd posted on dental down jor El said, there's a quarter million Denison dental town. And and I know we're coming up on our twenty year anniversary, and I never would have thought twenty years ago when we started that Dennis or posting questions all the time. I mean p pedia pediatric dentists are having problems where they wanna post signs at they don't wanna treat your child if they're not vaccinated. But then other parents say will Vitalis vaccinated. Why do I if the child next to me is unvaccinated that's a legit question. What would what would you give give a pediatric dentist verbiage to if? First of all do you recommend that a pediatric dentist not seeing children that are unvaccinated? And then if an unvaccinated mother child his mother says well, look at Dr shoe is vaccine for measles. And why does he care if Mike kit isn't vaccinated or even has measles? Because if you if you have a vaccination for measles, why do you care that my kid is sitting next to you? And he hasn't been backside. That's a legit question. That dentists are now starting to hear all the time. How would you answer that? I think of the best place to see to see a guy lines CDC website. The CDC website has dubbed best information to recommend for different age group yell plays. Not only children, but also on senior population and the regular probably date, you have very specific guidelines for healthcare settings or healthcare workers and for the. Our population ethics plays important rotel that you know, whether view deny or whenever you you must or whatever all kinds of choices ethics and also CDC guidelines. That's very very important. However, I would say for me for me. I would say prevention is the key prevention prevention prevention, you know, you want to get rid of those germs of before it enters in your body Desta mostly imported most effective wet because while you talk about all preventable axon backs the nation. I is arguable. The when we talk about prevention or not vaccination relies on infection to-, Mark. So dad something a lot of people. They don't know. They don't care back in nation without the infection. Vaccination will not work right away. Our because by Beijing cannot. Event Beiras till you fact, you. But only prevent the symptom. He's a radios are alert the guy something that we folks we've on prevention wave on to do you buy up approaches to kill these by was before the they can't back to you. So that's something that we're what he I'll supported by the United grant. So if so the dentists and hygienists listing key today, if they have patients that have dry mouth would they order mighty flow from your website, camelia dot com fee? A M E L. L I X. So it's basically camel licks Kate C A M E L than L I X dot com. Would you recommend that they that the dental office orders the mighty flow and dispenses it to the patient or just give them the the name of the website, and the the consumer orders off of your website, or is it available on Amazon dot com or Amazon prime. They got water from private for the patients. However when you get to the X dot com, a you could on professional then from that. That you can reach the company for free samples. Docusign to your cummick of for your patient to try for you to Twi for free is that's something. I think people can take advantage off. Because Wade rainy ones of people to know that this type natural product that went through clinical trial and shows a mystery tion of salary gun function help people with their also flow and help to manage their Klimov's. Okay. So. So you give Sudan's. Yes. So if you go to just think of camel licks, so camels out then licks ally axe these got a button it professionals to request free samples. Oh, also, see this is the new sanitizing Transantarctic diet is placed in every single dental unit. He our dental school hundreds of them. So our entire dental school only uses this sent either protect teams anti why Dr twofold of benefits, I we know alcohol. The radio can hurt your skin drier gay and mcginnity attend of this one does not have that kind of fact second regular regular alcohol sanitizer only can claim to kill bacteria. Acura, summarizes, however was the compound Acura, great, active, EC g. This sanitizer. Kim kill a lot of nasty viruses. So that's the advantage to two hundred seven and we have now learned about being twenty two d by the whole lying of this type of products. So you it says on your website that protect I protect protect protect t the right time TV. I love your your name. Your your your marketing is very good. You work, you're t- and all these stills. So all these things. So you said it the active E G C G lethal viruses. What what is e c g c g g c g is one of the compounds present you large amount in the TV's. But you water for them to be active against the bars. I need a technology to make certain may certain a process. So this is the protected terminology that way per possess, and we have already patent that technologies. Therefore is not only you need in the sanitizer. Also, you can see from the the coastal or train invent a bird he acts. So that's the Colt sore to him. So we've talked about we've talked about protect TV. We talked about mighty flow. But that one was a vertex of vertex of hurt a bird t x talked about. Yes, came out came out. I was also utilized this technology to active EC that technology and also went through a face to clinical trial for coats or patients because I used to get a lot of calls because I was dressed because I love traveling. And so I always try to use one very popular cold sore on very small to and then do not work by a well, do not work by wells. Oh since our research showed it hasn't. So high advocacy against bars. A we we tried we try to formulate and the we try to trial, and we've found does be was Lee ready shocking result, actually, a shorten the episode. From a median of nine days to four point five days, and with poverty that result on triple a runny nose. That's the oral Madison magazine and also we look at the Lister and also Latian time duration, and we can actually shorten that from a three days to one day yet for when you that medication actually you can stump blister Muzy one day average IRAs. So that's something that we're very excited about it. Therefore from from which we want to develop a prescription drugs for all kinds of of a problem back, the genital herpes and an awesome LaLonde to look at you know, whether the flu flu can be and the address the flu pandemic is so terrible. The Lada see whether we can divide some control methods. For probation of where we started the show talking about chairman mouse and the cultural revolution. I don't think most people around the world realize that the the Spanish influence a during the time of war will one actually killed more people than all one. Yup. Fifty manning up to fifty men and people get killed. And and it's a, but anyway, let's go back to the culture because it's a very it's a very will were social animals and people feel so conscience when they have a cold sore. I mean, some people literally don't even want to go to school or going to work. So now in the thirty years, I practice, what do you think was the most common treatment for culture? What do what do you think? Most dentists are treating with today. The first we have to recognize dental professionals to them co sore or herpes labiancas herpes Titus this type of open source pose a hazard to dental professionals. We need to be very careful everytime. I go for seed just tell them to be very careful Nov only, touchy, but also aerosol coating pass either you have a wound that many many report on that. So that's the first one the second one. The coasts must be addressed. Because coal solar is a copy of ours that hopping out by you are under stress you meeting system, again, a little renews. Coast will come out, you know, different places. He's fight on their lips also inside the or Kennedy so eighties a self healing of disease that will probably will complete each episode with the intent and fourteen days. But that's a long time. The Lonzo looks very bad. So ran now the approach is to how to deal with that episode two reveals them, so they're many made it untie Barak lots that people can preside people. They can put all the on your either topical or systematic use a destroy jobs from what I can see their efficacy is very weak. Very weak form for some simple topic. Oh options is Nava straw. Systemically? Infusion can be very strong. How ever what they calls day caused side effects can have some kind of a kidney problem too. But the biggest factor risk is to induce the Baras to new Tate to mutate dad Dekom a bigger problem. The way we're producing so per box superb. Harris does something that when you very careful just like unavowed, his you're too much unav- is a your producing inducing super body now would have Mersa with having multiple resistant the blog and come around cannot even control therefore virus? Same thing we already isolated so many different strands resistant to antibiotics not only from piece, but also through awareness of they have on recision strands to be very very careful date advantage of our terminologies that our products using the compound that active. You see just compound worse on multiple mechanisms not only for one castaway or one monarchial or one enzyme though, buyers can mutate anytime, but we have this compound that work on multiple mechanisms these are all polished, they which is everybody can check. This way dis Marzieh's to have no way to do by resistant. They just die. So that's why the cul sore medication. He the bird TI's a work. So well, and you can see the reviews these of Amazon or you can look at our publication on trip hall against that more salt. Well on fires. You'll have to worry about citing five you'll have to worry about you, mar mental multiple she you have the war by the virus to to Tate. So that's something that many of the people she'd take there's a threat on dental town and fact, it was a very popular thread. This is one of the articles about one. Hi Dennis saying that when she has a patient that comes with a cold sore. She wants schedule them. And of course, the dentist is thinking. I have overhead I can't pay you forty dollars. An hour to reschedule a patient with a cold sore where where do you weigh in on that, according to the guidelines that all say, according to the guideline depends on the size of the of the the lesion and depends on the weather that can be a contained so the dentist make decision. But even I am that dentists, I am the dentist. You've I look at the coastal is is the he's outbreak. It has I don't the viral shitting vary. Tarrant? I probably will suggest that patient come back after sorties hunting, Carol. Because I cause a threat a risk to Erbakan clinic. Publication down that many public on that you can see. So you talking about mighty flow read, revitalize a Verity axe you still have another product four products. The that was the herald hair care. I wasn't going to cover that today since I don't have any k- any hair. So I don't think it means anything to me. But just in case someone's listening that has hair talk about your hair product. Yeah. The the here product was also among the earliest product the way launched and basically it take advantage on the untie oxidant properties of the Queen t- compounds. Plus, another plant compound hell was the hair follicles? Therefore that we eat about of the compound for two purposes and see one on them. One of them's for the right here. This is the blue bottle. Renzo? This one is for cheryl's, especially right now, a lot of cancer patients actor went through therapies, and they have Hera laws. They can actually use that to wash their hair. The other type is the blue bottle does the awful dandruff. The dandruff. Also, we know that lot of caused by young immune system problems and the overall the abbey Dharma's and the shitting all these skin sales. So, that's inflammation. Therefore, we use natural anti-inflamation to combat this type of problems. So we have this a product line to address need await natural way, the planned actress an also way pig all the ingredients, according to the standard of the. Environmental working group site. So the website they have all these kind of Kong's allies all these weightings for the shampoo so way, choose nontoxic green compounds so therefore with that haircare products to control of gender and also to help people with thinning hair. So I use them. I use them every day. I I use products from time to time. But I use the shampoo every day. Use the sanitizer everyday. So that's something now, and you got you got the dental school to put the hand sanitizer entire the entire dental school hundreds more than four four hundred two cheaters fodder that Joan is and many many offices. Resolve is is the all use our sentencing. Got some time sometime there's a one there's one staff the tone the story into one staff on her desk, it has our sanitizer which provided by the school and another sanitize. I said take why you're using another sense either. She said pate your Centaur is so gentle. I don't believe he's going to kill the bugs. I used a puff one done Radi. Read my skeet all must be working for the bacteria as well. Dessus the purpose that we want a good sign hazard, and it up the bucks, then she believes because complications while all these publications out, and you can check on them while I still have patients that only when swish your mouth with listerine because it burns and feels like. Just that Patrie actually can can can cause cancer. No from some studies. Hi, contact content. And do you think that the high alcohol content on the oral tissue or the fact that? If you're an alcoholic, you destroyed so much of your liver. Do do you think they're mixing out drinking alcohol with rinsing alcohol on tissues or do? You think do you think listerine on oral tissue by itself is carcinogenic? Yes. From study. She will talk about a study. We'll talk about avance based dentistry so evidence based dentistry. We could see a lot of evidence. Because he a lot of Evans that alcohol is a factor is one factor by the factors associated list or Kanza. Tobacco is another one might combine them is getting worse. So d- alcohol content was very high like the old mystery always has very high continent alcohol, they they have to have no alcohol now down none alcohol now of being is much better. So any alcohol content to high no more than ten percent. That may not be a good option may not young. Ouch. So does from scientific evidence we see that Dodd cooed need to inquisition of or cancel. And would he I'm a lot of the Dennis center is old as me when when they see someone with a cold sore? They're still thinking psych, lavar. What would you say to someone he thinks I'll who's listening to you saying for you were. Disolve blisters talk about a bad Teac versus acyclovir. Yes. A cycle. Beer is the oldest untie borrowed that been used for Dyke's against a certain of our inversions, and you can be taken systemically or can be used as oilman on or gel on topical obligations. And Derek clinical study showed the clinical study, I'll basical bear chilled the topical application of ace. Sequoia wear can read us the episode by no hollow. Less than the day. We do use the entire episode less than day. The people one day on them can be can be, you know, making a big difference. But the bird T ads in our file data showed can be used it episode by four point five days. I think that's a big difference. I think you could change a lot of minds just going to mean, you basically you basically right right now, you have four products. Mighty flow revealed till is avert pro TV you should get on dental town and do a search for these cold sores of our blisters and tell them what you know, because it's not like, you're some salesman from company. I mean, you're you're from Europe from dental school, you should really come on educate them because it in space now, you're of evidences. Yeah. So you have four products. Now, what's going to be your fifth product someday? Someday. I think we are projected to launch the next product that's gonna be the virus Seidel spray against norovirus and germs. So that's gonna be very exciting. So this is the product that we are developing supported by the National Institute of health that where indie where in these states try to finalize that and then the needs to get approval by UPA by UPI. And then when you look at these phrase by phrase your dental office, I'll surface no tool to clean them. And the UC are sprays dad lames to kill germs and Boris, nor wise, whatever's a you need to be careful you need to be careful look at their countenance. So that's all I can say. Unite want to say too much. You can't you can see they're they're in waiting. You can see their PH. You can see they are compounds in there. So that's something that we aren't developing sounding so natural that will not hurt anything or not have a corrosive. On fact on material, but also has very very high efficacy against the neural ours lava, viruses, and bacteria Dutton, very exciting. We're debating that. And also talk about another plot is white. So the white can do that the same purposes, you know, when you're talking about your hand sanitizer lotion, everything I'm reading is telling me that my smartphone is probably filthier than my hands. Is that is your hand sanitizer? Something we when you put it on your hand sanitizer. Do you think people should pick up their smartphones? And rub it on the scarves owner were. When the when the spray come out doubt to the vibrant good. But it the smartphones. I think is clean actually cleaner dead day. Your keyboard, probably. Famously the keyboard acumen, a lot of stuff that because you do not clean them. Jay, I do not clean them everyday. But he was smartphone. Sometime you clean them. You live down out to use some certain types. So the wives can really Clinton pretty well. But your keyboard, though, make sure doorknobs and a lot of places that people touch of they have a lot of German that way go to the gym. The I go to GM very frequently. But I see people they're using different wrong products. You know, I have to say, you know, ride occasion are needed to Jim all these equipments that you do. And what what what they do. You know, date do not clean out hands to cutting. Those equipment is useless. You you create you quit -ment you. I you make sure you use your hands are clean. That's the most important of before you touch any. Yeah. So on go. Is there anything we didn't talk about today that you that? I wasn't smart enough to ask you about. Is there any any other areas? You wanna talk about? Covered a lot and being for the dental office, the dentist settings. Okay. He's a confined the place usually and also allow Frau's annot people traffic or the plays that we need to be a ready ready careful about infectious disease when you to keep in mind, and it doesn't matter of measles matter is through. Our her peace lady Alice, but there's something we cannot see for example, HP we cannot see them from people their oral cavity when older model you take Oris and you don't see enemy Shen. However, why you know, why why you're doing your procedure? This patient may have a viral shedding. Do not have any symptom. So you'd be barricade for by the PH meeting, very careful on your hand Ps and the site, especially the suction, he's a make sure aerosol does not go to you or go to your assistant or is a lot of patients and make sure to cross contamination out your dental chair your dental in surface, and you'll radio room all of these places of we needed, very careful when you have a moral outbreaking your office, then you will have some big tasks you have to report a CDC do all kind of things under the guidelines at the clean up on you know, you have to stop. So a lot of things that we need to be very careful, and then the the dental professionals aware in the frontline wait we see symptom. I we know not off people we meet them every six months, not their physicians. A we need of the very, very careful. Well, you just mentioned I I was going to let you finish with that. But now use opened up another question, I got asked overtime dentist, don't like being called a dentist. They they wanna be a physician of the oral mouth doctor of the mouth but used compass, but you don't see them really behind vaccinations for h v like Garda's cell. I mean, there's there's thousands of dentists listening to you right now who have never even talked to their patient about guard. So if you're really going to be a physician of the oral cavity doesn't the HP vaccination have to be part of your routine conversation. Well, these when you to reveal the chart where the review the patients at the C weather, a teenager time, you know, they were vaccinated run out, and the very not, you know, that could be something because the HP populations getting bigger and bigger and other barring fractions getting bigger and bigger, for example, the he's harpies EMA forbe's to do harpies and ATV is the most dangerous one does associated with all cancer and smother size so oral cancer as now it's definitely associated with HP budgeted to sixteen eighteen mother strands. So that need to be mainly look at it. And then you pan-asian to the patient history. And then you'll be more better prepared. Well, I tell you what this has been an amazing show. I can't wait. I hope you get on dental town and bring up everybody's educate. On this is Dr Steven CHU PHD, professor of oral biology, founder of Kamil. Lex mighty flow Rivi revealed lies, avert, Teac and pro TV thank you so much for coming on the show today. And if you ever have a more information, you're you're always welcome back on the show because you know, so much about this stuff. Thank you so much for all that you've done might my final question. Do you ever get back to China? Yes. Of course, we do have some business that to China because the terminology of windy, Oregon it from China. So we try to take advantage of that. And so we do have some link or their yard. Why thing one of the most fun lectures, I ever game was in Shenzhen, my guys on the modern on modern dental labs and Chen, Jonathan they have four thousand employees to are all over China. My gosh, what an amazing country. It is just a beyond amazing. But thank you so much for coming on the way. It was a Sean to podcast interview.
How To Get 6 Gigabytes Of Data From Your Gut: The Fascinating Future Of Stool, Blood, Saliva & Urine Testing (From The Comfort Of Your Own Home).
"Master's degree in physiology bio mechanics and human nutrition, I've spent the past two decades competing in some of the most masochistic events on the planet from seal fit Keiko Smarden ago. Gee in the world's toughest mudder, thirteen ironman triathlons. Brutal bow hunts adventure races. Spearfishing plant foraging, free, diving bodybuilding and beyond. I combine this intense time in the trenches with a blend of ancestral, wisdom and modern science searched the globe for the world's top experts performance, fat loss recovery got hormones, brain, beauty and Braun to deliver. You this podcast everything you need to know to live in adventurous, joyful and fulfilling life. My name is Ben greenfield enjoy the ride. He neighbor I was like talk like Mr. Rogers when I'm about to ask you to go on an imaginative adventure. But I want you to actually go on an imagination adventure with me. Imagine if somehow you had this all encompassing platform that Alagic keep track of your blood and your stool, and your saliva and your urine testing in all these different tests. People are getting these days along with all yourself quantified data from wearables like the or a ring or the woop wristband or apple watch or anything else that you might wear to track your heart rate or hurry. Very ability your temperature, your sleep or anything else. And then that same platform could pull in all the health testing that you've done in the past and just kind of make that part of the dashboard too. So you can have your whole health history in there. And then we're gonna keep imagine the magic. That. The platform could basically use really really good artificial intelligence like highly advanced artificial intelligence tell you exactly how to eat what the meal should be protein. Carb fat ratios foods to select foods, not to select how to supplement at exercise and much more all from one single dashboard. And you could get all the testing done from the comfort of your own home without needing to drive to an expensive lab for multiple blood draws or fill out confusing paperwork. Well, that is exactly what this brand new company. One Jedi health is putting together they've been working on this behind the scenes for years. I've known about it for a while. But. I had to wait to podcast with these scientists before or Intel really this. This thing was actually ready, and they're now rolling out this whole dashboard and these tests and everything so I figured it was high time I sat down with two chief scientists or one to learn how this works because I'm pretty dang stoked. I've already started my own testing with them already got access to their dashboard. I've got like six gigabytes of data for my gut alone right now, but I can see exactly which supplements which foods everything they used totally different sequencing, totally different technology than anybody. I've ever talked to on this podcast in the past. And the guy's interviewing today show, which was recorded pretty much right at the thorn research facilities in New York City because thorn, basically owns and runs. One javadi. The guests are Dr Joel Dudley. Dr Chris Mason, these are cool. Casts are smart as hell Dr Dudley is the professor of genetics and genomic sciences Mount Sinai where he's also on the chair of biomedical data science and the founder of something called next generation healthcare. He was director of informatics at something called new medi I was a consulting professor at Stanford. He's been publishing over one hundred twenty different pure viewed publications you'll see this dude all over the Wall Street Journal scientific American CNBC. He was named one of the one hundred most creative people in business by fast company magazine. Smart cat, and in addition to that he also has a PHD from from Stanford University school of medicine. And then Dr Christopher Mason is on the podcasts along with Dr Joel Dudley. And Dr Christopher Mason is also a professor he's a professor wheel Cornell medicine, and he's the director something called the. World Quant initiative or quantitative prediction, which bridges prediction methods and finance with genome IX, he has a deep history in artificial intelligence a spoken at Ted popular science listed him as as one of the top ten most brilliant people in the world, which is kind of an honor. And he also has over a hundred forty different peer reviewed publications. He's been in science. He's been nature. He's been so guys PHD genetics from Yale. And then also got his postdoctoral training clinical genetics at Yale. And he is his wicked smart along with Joel Dudley. So we're going to unpack this whole blood saliva urine stool testing piece, hey before we jump into today's show just a few quick things. This this podcast today is brought to you by kion K, I O N. That's my company where I source and design amazing supplements for you and in our wide range of. V- beneficial compounds that I've personally handpicked for you, you will find many products made by the company thorn, including the their multivitamin that I use every day. They're creating one of the most proven sports performance enhancing aids just supplements in general, creating as staves off things like Sarko Pena with age an is a no Nutro pick in creating flies on the radar. It seems for you know, aside from strength and power. But it's for so many things so beneficial we've got their probiotic on their their vitamin d vitamin k liquid. Just just some of the best of the best thorns supplements are all over at kion because I have toward their facilities and will out for everything they do they are considered to be one of the top clean guilt free supplement manufacturers on the face of the planet. So that's called Thorne. And we have all the foreign products marched down at a discount over at kion. So go to get Kate. N dot com. Get fantastic prices on all the stuff along with all of your favourite kion supplements. So in addition, this podcast is also brought to buy organic fad gold. It's like curling up with a nice piping hot Cup of medicinal liquid. Which sounds like it would taste like ass, but it actually tastes pretty good. They put to Merck and black pepper into this along with a bunch of of like, insulin stabilizing herbs and spices. They've got Turkey tail. Lemon balm reshi. They put ginger in there. And when you blend this up like I like to blended up in the evening with a little bit of almond milk or coconut milk on top with some sentiments, coconut flakes sip it while I stare longingly into the fire wearing my cowboy hat and smoking a cigar naked NAM's skin out all other stuff, but I do drink organic buy gold and their new flavor 'cause I'm chocolate Fien. Their new flavor. Organic buy gold chocolate on my gosh, some mazing die for. So he was you. Get twenty percent off all of the fine fine fare from our friends at organic fight us, go to organic dot com. That's if with an I dot com and use this count code greenfield. That's easy enough to remember. So we're gamified dot com and use discount code greenfield. All right, folks. Well, well, welcome to the show, Chris Joel or sitting here with me. You've just heard about these guys extensive bios, and I'm actually holding this oddly shaped object that believe is designed to collect my stool, it looks like like a cross between a rocket ship and a dildo. And apparently, this is this is the wave of the future. This is where personalized genomic testing, especially for the biomass going, and you guys are at the forefront of this new thing called one Jedi which I've already learned is not pronounced on giddy. Jeopardy. So so tell me what is one jeopardy. And when you begin to talk you can introduce you are so concerned to keep you straight as we are. I can also make one talking to falsetto tone. Yeah. That's that's handing out. Okay. Okay. Like pain. So now, so Joel Dudley hair. So this is a one jeopardy in short as a health intelligence company that has really trying to bring the the cutting edge science of precision medicine or precision health to the consumer room. Hi, this is Chris Mason. So it really is. I think a manifestation of dream had for a while to bring the best. And most actionable information we have in the laboratory and give it to everybody and anybody who wants it. So this includes everything we're starting with gut gut health in our gut bio products, so people can get a complete portrait of what's inside them. And basically have actionable insights from that, including what you should we should take what you should eat essentially things you can learn about your health. But then to expand out everything about your your genetic code DNA. Also, looking at what's in your blood? So it really will be integrated across every layer of your biology and make it so you can live healthier, happier life. Okay. How how did this actually come to be like worded one jeopardy actually come from? And you guys have pretty extensive background everything from artificial intelligence to genomic. So I'm curious how this actually how this actually materialized So Chris, and I do research for the last decade or so a top tier medical institutions working again in sort of personalized medicine space. And I think for me it came from a frustration about how long it takes for that science to reach not only the clinic, but you know, the consumer so it takes fifteen seventeen years for scientific innovation to reach the clinic alone, and then many years after that for that reach the consumer. So is born out of the frustration of how long that takes and how you were just barely scratching the surface of technology in treating disease, and we're very for often the sort of typical academic realm using this technology, focus on health and wellness and health prevention. So there's pretty much no interest in in health prevention, and sort of mainstream medical research. Now, I wanna start to clear up a lot of confusion around actual testing. Because you know, I it seems like by on testing is a diamond dozen these days, and you know, I I've interviewed folks from Viacom before people are aware of the American gut project. Acts of you buy. Ohm. I mean, it's very very simple to get the impression that you're simply going to poop in a tube. And send it off and get results back that give you some clues as to the bacterial profile of your gut. How is this any different than anything else that exists out there right now, there's actually a really big difference between what we do at one Jovi, and what you'll get from other places in particular almost all the work in the field and alert or in the past really fifteen years has been done with an older technology, which is called sixteen s whereas we do what's called shotgun sequencing, which is kind of the name implies you fragment and shotgun destroy all the DNA from your sample and look at the providence or the source of world that DNA came from? So it could be back Tyrian in viruses, which you've heard about before and people probably maybe even order test before the might be listening. But this expand we expand. What are the fungal species at present or even plant or even the amount of human DNA, that's leftover that we've seen your stool itself as an indicator of health and ensure what's happening inside of you. So we better technology better algorithms the platform is built on all those studies that we've been publishing in the past ten years have understood where each molecule comes from from each. She's and so the technology's better the algorithms are better. And most importantly, it's not just a PDF that you get you just okay, I've got this profile. You know, I might as well use it as like wallpaper in my bathroom. That's not going to help you. Right. You my pedia that says here's all the back Syria, which is like, okay, it's interesting. But it's like, you know, getting recipe and in different language that you don't know what to do in this case, we translate the language of the molecules inside your body and give you things you can actually take including products for probiotics product supplements. You can take into your body that will benefit the impact what's your microbiome and maintain how or improve it. And then also actionable insights of what else you should be eating or taking doing. I think that's a key distinction from the companies that are out there because there are a lot of you mentioned a lot of companies in this space already. I would call most of those companies recreational health information. Companies not really health management companies right because it providing you health information that has largely recreational because it's hard to act on it. And they're not providing you a solution. I don't know. I mean, like when I get tested I've been tested by companies before and I get I get the PDF that list, the percentage of all the bacteria. But then it says things like here's the foods that you should eat foods that you should say away from true. But they don't they don't deliver those foods to you. And they don't provide solution to you. And they don't actually give you the means to test and see if those solutions, actually if you're responding to those on an individual level, right? So it's sort of a shopping list, and then you know, that shopping list can change. But the key thing here is vertically integrated with thorn, right? So we're not we're integrating testing with the ability to design the intervention develops the actual solutions like here here is the actual supplement that could address this bacterial insufficiency or excess indirectly basically give me Taylor. Just for you. That's based on manufa goods and supplements, and probiotics products all manufactured here in the US that we can go tour the facility and see it's the best in class production for really any anything. You could buy Chelsea mayoclinic sells it to people at their hospital. You'll see a chills it. But. Walgreens. You'll see supermarkets. These are the best basically products you can buy as an intervention for what we measure inside. And then we can see is it working. Are you are you part of the ten or twenty percent of people who only have to take some of the probiotics once and they stick and they've been colonized, and you're good or some of them have to be taken continually by people, but we can measure that quantify, and then advise you well, definitely want to talk about that about if you take probiotics if it even has an impact on these measurements. Because I question whether or not does. But before that, you mentioned the type of sequencing desert and said, it was called sixteen you guys. In shotgun shocking. Sixteen is considered a swear word my labrador. If you say sometimes we will tackle you sixteen so sixteen sixteen s fragment of what's called the Ribot zome Arnaiz. So it's it separates out say eukaryotic sort of like animals and plants versus what are called procreate or ARCHE are these microbes. They're literally a different kingdom or domain of life. And so the sixteen St. regional that sort of fragment of gene was how these new class of bacteria called archea were first discovered by Karl wool. So basically in the seventies. There's really an excitement in microbiology because we just use that method defined a whole dramatically different domain of life, which lived in hydrothermal vents are really extreme places. So it has utility in research and it's been around for decades. But it was never designed as a way to profound entire ecosystem like in your gut or an feel field of soil and prairie. It is just a way to count a general view of what's there in a way to discover something dramatically different at kingdom level. But we want to do is find. This species and strain level that are the most important for your health, and obviously even disease, for example, coli almost everyone. That's listening has coli in them and someone next to them. But you're not sick from you call when you hear about he cool and the news going outbreak. If you call an lettuce, it's a very specific strain of Colette's, just he choline and other strands can be beneficial read so sixteen almost none of that resolution. We get all of that resolution sixty s which is say you have equal. Would you say not even just give you the genus or maybe even the family say, you have something, and you know, sharia wouldn't even say E coli just say something the genus level. I mean, it'd be like saying are you homo sapiens? It gives like, well, I don't know I'm kind of a primate, and I want to do clinical trial and some primate, and then make recommendations on that, you know, you wanna do a clinical trial and actual human being not just a random primate or something that has a core date like a spine. That's a bit too vague. I think we're almost starting over and micro Buyum search saving tons of microbiome research a decade, and there's all kinds of interesting associations with everything from depression to cardiovascular disease and metabolic. Health a lot of that. Again, it's been based on on sixteen s sequencing which is this low resolution, so we're we're now sort of almost starting again from scratch because shock on Mendocino makes getting to a point where we're gonna have to go back and reprofile and really learn again with having the microbiome with this much higher resolution technique what is meta transcript dome analysis because I see that word thrown around something that companies are using admitted genome is all the DNA and meta just means across all species. So you're not just looking at just bacteria or only human DNA or fungal looking at all the DNA meta genome that all genomes whereas transcript dome is everything that's made from DNA into RA in the sort of that landscape as well. So it's all the army that you'll pull out of a sample. So it could be from skin could be from your good again, it could be from prairie, and you just extract all the Arna out, which is what when DNA it's transcribed to become more active molecule that is the transcript all of the transcript of of one species transcript home, and if it's all species human. Fungal bacteria of even viral Arnaiz. It's called the meta transcript him. Why wouldn't you just do that? Instead of shotgun suits, we've tested this. We actually have led studies with the FDA with NIST to look at basically international standards for medigene Olmecs versus meta transcript film, and in the literature. The ideas that will if it's aren't that means is active. So maybe that tells you what's live versus. That's what I'm thinking is like our, and I would tell you what's actually going on. But there's several challenges with the are some of the most clinicians. I know consider meta transcript to be useless. They just don't even want to look at it deficit if it's minute transcript comics because the Arna while it's active. It's also been the most -ceptable degradation, and it even though the molecules active is one that is destroyed the fastest also, it's it's very you only get sort of the top Hugh percent at the species that are active because they'll be the most generate a lot of the Arnie. So one cell usually has one or two or several copies of DVDs you can quantify who's they're a bit better than you can with meta trans. Group Bill makes you could see who's the most active, but that doesn't necessarily tell you who might be president a lower level that could be a higher risk. And so between those two things. And then also the databases are not as good. The methods are not as good for meta transcript on me. It's a bit more new and again, most of the people working in pathology or clinical labs described in my experience useless because it's too noisy of data and integrates fast is shotgun sequencing more expensive. No, they'd be about the same price. I mean in terms of once you get the aren't in your goals to sequence them. They could be relatively similar, but DNA sequencing was ways to make that cheaper. And what we're putting out is going to be cheaper. And by virtue of the way, that bacteria replicate themselves and their genome, which is different in some ways than than humans. There are ways to in for activity from meta genome IX actually of the bacteria, just because you're doing medical DNA doesn't mean you're blind to that this sort of activity, you might capture with transcript comics are actually computational techniques. You can use looking them at a transfer. Tiptoe MC data to sort unfor- some activity of genes from the DNA. Okay. So so right now what's going on is I I would get a kit from one jeopardy, and I would I would send off a stool sample. How large the stool sample if it's some of these tests. I mean, it's an ungodly amount. Like a hotdog trae that you got collecting your refrigerator for three days, and it's often a prepaid FedEx bag like how much are we talk? I mean, if you have a personal interest in storing a lot of your own material, you can still do that. But we're tests you don't deny do. I like I like to look at it. He leaves friends over puts it in the freezer labels that has. He's finds it. Halo top peanut butter Cup. There's I do know guy in Twitter, the microbiome researcher. And there is something called fecal microbiome transplants. Where do you can do an autologous transplant? You say if you get a gastrointestinal issue, you could actually transplant your own stool at Eubanks years before as a way to treat yourself. And so even though there's a guy who post this online as putting it in my freezer. His wife you have to make sure a good marriage. You communicate which tool you're putting in which freezer, of course. So I think, but he's doing it for a medical reason. If anything does go wrong it gives you basically like a bone marrow transplant. I think it's a great idea. I was recently working on a on a chapter my book about FM tease clustering longevity. And and yet yet seems to make sense that if you're out of time in your life when you're is healthy Bank it, and it's actually one thing I'm self exactly. With Jimmy one of the things we're calling almost like a virtual stool bang where if we because we sequenced deep enough and broadly enough, you we can tell you what you were what you look like when you're healthy or people that have come to our company or customers have come to us have got problems. We can address that. But even healthy. It's really a snapshot of where where you are when you're healthy that you can go back to anything goes wrong. But without that profile. You can't get close to it. And you could even Bank it as well. But the pros the bare minimum of what you need to try and get back to where you were. So it's essentially the amount of fecal matter you get off of one swipe with toilet paper small spoon. Yeah. Okay. So then that goes off to your lab where it is shotgun sequenced, and then what happens, and so we take all those fragments of DNA will generate, you know, at this point about six gigabytes of data, which is you know, sort of millions and millions of fragments of DNA that we take each fragment and compared to all noon species, basically all five million known species to humanity. We check and see which one of the came from. So at the end, then you'll get so the once the mapping is complete. We didn't give you a quantification of every species bacteria, viruses, Phages so different kind of bacteria, viruses, fungi plant DNA, we've and see the amount of human DNA. So we use this to get the first profile, and then and one could walk through what's in that report. You get. Report that's linked you, do you can still get downloadable PDF. If you wanna go back to the old school way of just staring at a PDF, but the site is interactive. And then importantly, gives you suggestions on what you should order. If you want to try and say give an option for helping IBS or if you just want to sort of other products that might maintain your health. Are you measuring any anything with the blood as well to to kind of go along with the microbiome data? So that's the thing that will distinguish one Jeb really strongly going forward. So is really this sort of multidex assessment. You know, there's anyone dimension. You know is really limited in what can tell you about your overall health because what's happening in the gut. Obviously, we might think is transferring into the blood, but unless we measure the blood directly. Well, yeah, I mean, you get different data from from different bodily fluids. I mean, you know, a lot of people they'll do an organic amino acids test using urine or like a Dutch test for hormones using your and then a complete blood count and comprehensive metabolic profile in the blood and the gut and then like. Genetic panel via the saliva. So so you guys are pairing blood data with the gut that. Yeah. So we don't know in the in the current product right now. But that's which was mentioned in our press release is part of the product roadmap in in for any. I think healthy that we look at. It's going to be a multi ICs, you know, sort of hasn't really criticize background on the economic side has really been around the the power. How do you combine multi data for individuals? And then how do you do inference across all of those things those dimensions simultaneously? So a lot of people will say measure genome measure blood measure microbiome, and then they sort of look at those dimensions one by one and say, well, let's try to learn something fun of Michael by them the blood genetics. But but we have deep experience, and let's combine those into a single model single representations. We can really understand what the interplay between all these factors. And what what telling us about what's happening in the gun. What's really driving the in the blood, and we use things like network modeling and things like that on the computational side. But but that's really the key. No single dimension is really good enough to give you the full picture. Do you mean network modeling so instead of just analyzing the genetics alone, or again, the microbes alone, you can actually build these network models where you can actually understand how are changes in the gut microbiome, for example, potentially propagating up to the blood, and what the network modeling will let you do is not just look at these sort of core. Live associations but release or to help you try to untangle what's potentially causally causal sort of dirty word and out. Don't want wanna say Causley. But is there is there a directional link between what's happening in the backup, ammo and what's happening. The blood rather than trying to guess from from these correlations. So what would be an example of things that you would measure in the blood so to to be determined. You know, as we developed the products, but in it's going to depend on on the health condition. Right. So what what makes sense to measure in the blood, but bacteria? Dr metabolites, right? If we feel that there's some activity, Dr metabolites that might being being produced by the you mean, the gut the bacteria in the gut is precincts metabolize at whining the bloodstream, and you're measuring those or you might assume, but, but maybe you don't know how what the, you know, the gut barrier, you know, could be disrupted. Right. So or you might you might think that they shouldn't be leaking into the blood, but you wanna test to make sure even other active in the call and they shouldn't leak, but may there's a barrier issue. So we actually need to test in the blood and vitamin levels to vitamin B six up to eighty five percent of the vitamin B six it's made in your body could be made by species in your gut. So if you think on my my higher low in different vitamins, you might normally just look in blood, but you wouldn't be examining where the Genesis of actually out of the the vitamins, I mean, basically in our guts, small pharmacy for all of us that both makes processes drugs and molecules vitamins, and so in the absence of knowing what's in your gut. You could start to think about just do blood work and think about what I missing, but you can create some new members of. Molecular factory in your gut that can make them for you. And so part of the measurements to see what we predict as being made, but at vitamin levels, but also what bacteria tablets, which you can just predict based on who's there the species, and again, it has to be the species in the strand. You can't get it from, you know, say I've just looked at you know, some some broad class of bacteria because you don't know what it is. Which is why you need you shotgun, right? Okay. Got all wanna get back to to the practical recommendations, and I also I'm intrigued by this idea of using artificial intelligence, and I wanna learn more about how you doing that as well. But I also know there's there's a lot of skepticism about this overall testing process as a whole because using stool, right, basically, what whatever happens to be near the rectum in the anus when you test. How can that be reflective or is that reflective of what's going on higher up in the tube? I mean is there any evidence that that really showing what's really going on to the best models have been done in most. It's much easier to get say six areas of the GI track from from. What's in the food comes all the way out at the end. And we have to additional studies on going to see his myself successful. We all know this. Assigned. You're interesting in grad school, I did make warm that had three Volvo which was a unique experience useful Lynn thirty five mutation. It was just a multi Volvo species could be useful. And I went home at Christmas. It's my first year grad student, I'm going home at Christmas and my grandma's like how grad so you're getting your P that sounds exciting and and house Yale. It sounds great. And I said, well, I made a worm that has three Volvo, and she's like, what's volt. It's a reproductive organ in the species as hermaphrodites really it can make its own babies. You put it on a plate that makes its own progeny. It's and she's like, why are you doing this? Again, you know, and I said, well, you know, it's important cancer, signaling. It's it's really important. And I realized that that moment looking down at the floor. Like, I need a better way to explain the grandparents right in the biohacking sector people are getting chlorophyll injected into eyeballs or little magneto receptors in their ears. And I would imagine there's probably a few hackers out there who would want an extra Volvo. It's a it's a limited market. But I think you're passionate about I think so this by Chris's best efforts that's not yet product. So. So these mice you're able to test them in your will to see the bacteria profile different areas of the gut. And so it is very true that different areas of the digestive process. Right. So you're are being broken down decomposed. Ideally, we would love to get every part of everyone's Asaf Jah gem at Denham everything to the colon. But we, but this tool is we've from studies publish seventy eighty as much as ninety percent of the signal of what you're looking for what actionable is still in the stool. So I think there's other people who can ways you can even swallow devices that would take sampling all the way through job try. But I think it's not necessary. And it's also more risky to try and collect things higher up. But, you know, not a discount kilo backtra pylori for driving ulcers that's more in the in the stomach not at the end. So. You can see most of what you wanted with this. I think this is where the machine learning party. I however you want to say it comes in. Is there have been very large? Studies published where they have done this sort of spatial microbiome sequencing along the giants racked and published these very large reference databases of spatial microbus. Twas calling spatial microbiome gonna take that from different areas. Not not just like one toilet paper. Right. Right. But because there's these big reference databases out there what you can do with machine learning is is take someone's sample from you know, just just one collection site. And then you you could use machine learning to infer, what are the likely upstream, depending on how reliable that that signal is in that data, right? If there's a decay of of signal that's consistent. So so this is really the power of using large published data sets that we pulled in to our platform and this goes along with metabolize as well. So there's been a large reference database. Is published with where they've mentioned whole matab on fecal samples and they've done say meta genome IX, and then we have a machine learning algorithm that can look at the meta data and really build you virtual metabolism using machine learning how much data have you pulled in? I I don't know how much data there is out there on bio testing. But I was the impression Wisconsin new thing. A lot of sixteen instead of sixteen. There's tens of thousands of samples but for meta Joe mix that's paired with actual metabolise. The we've got over two thousand samples, but that's the majority of the data that that's ours. Plus public data there's not that much that's out there. But you think well how can you do classify machine? Learning only thousand samples the reason. And also there is a bit of a exhaustion. I think they feel do machine learning if you're writing code. It's a if you just talking nebulous way about doing something cool, but but we use you can call. It broadly is because use multiple kinds of machine learning on the data sets that we've curated. So this is random forest models. Neural networks even. Some cases simple regression is good enough, but multi variant regression so you look at multiple barrels at once. And what that means is you're not just the reason we have all that the information is because it's bacteria viruses. It's human DNA. It's the mapping of each piece of DNA to every possible species. So in a feature space as very very large and give many places to learn from. And that's why I think some of the our excitement about machine learning is built into the companies because it is to date by far the easiest and fastest way to take unstructured sort of AIC data of unknown importance and find signals in it and actually act on them, and that's separate groups of high risk low risk IBS IBD healthy controls. 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Just now, anyways, I like I mentioned have used us anything I mentioned on the show, and it tastes really good. And it does really truly satiate your appetite just use like a tablespoon of it. You're supposed to use a teaspoon. But I'm a glutton for punishment. And I think it tastes amazing. And I'm gonna run out of bottles really soon based on the rate at which I'm going through it. So you get fifteen percent off. You just go to pure thrive dot com slash greenfield Kito there. I said it again Kito Pierra. Thrive dot com slash greenfield. Kito that gets you. Fifteen percent off again, P U. R A thrive dot com forward slash greenfield. Kito? So the AI is able to predict potential for certain diseases or conditions based on the shotgun. Sequencing of the stool sample that you send in, but then it's also able to generate targeted recommendations for the foods or the supplements that you should be consuming. Again, this is not based on meta transcript dome or sixteen it's all based on shotgun. And so the list of recommendations, you get from test like this might be different than the list of recommendations that you get if you had tested elsewhere, and it will be a different and better marks Berenson potential. Give very confusing for people are sending their poop off different company. Sure. But but this has happened also Twenty-three me or people doing direct to consumer genetic testing. And I think every once a year there's a New York Times reporter who says why sent my saliva DNA to three companies, and I got back different risk wars. Exactly. And they're emptying with food allergies. Right. I sent off my blood results for al-qaeda and Lisa three different times and came back with different from its void. And it depends. So I mean, it's interesting in that case for people getting different risk free even say like diabetes risk and say, oh, how did I get three different answers from three different companies? It would actually be a miracle. If you got the exact same answer from three companies that all have three different databases that they're using as reference, so it's interesting. It's a disconnect between the consumer view of what they should see we think of your DNA you look in the mirror deals on my deans, mostly the same. I shouldn't get a different answer from three different companies, but each company has its own database its own set of scientists and actually literally different risk that they're calculating using different data. So like Naveh gen-x twenty three and me some of the even Veritas companies where they'll give you a risk score. But it's not. It's actually not at all surprising that they're different. It'd be they should be broadly consistent, but they would never be dental because they're using different data. We're in this case we too will be using different data. And we'll, of course, tell you that we think are dead is more comprehensive and better. But in this as like, where's the data coming from? And it's all public. So it's friends and family early trials of our product. It's clinical trial that we've run in the company and every available public data set that we have that that that the exists, basically. So it's even argues totality of all public knowledge and all company knowledge on metal mix and metabolism. Now from a longitudinal standpoint if people are doing this test that database is going to continue to grow and the machine get stronger better. It's a visibly every day that passes in some sense, the company and its -bility to make better recommendations improves. And also, we're we're strong believers, and if something doesn't work if we've done something that's been hundreds of people thousands of people, and we can. Quantify literally do phenotype scores. And if no one's benefiting from something, we'll of course, stop recommending, we'll stop even stops. There's no reason to give people things that don't work on ethical, frankly. So even if you make money from it our goals, not to profit from selling things goals to sort of profit in partnership with customers that they're healthier. That's actually gonna ask you like in pharmaceutical companies Walson and like by this data ten years from now. Now, you know, they could propose a partnership, right? But but it's it's on our terms, right? And as we mentioned in the press release like this has to be very transparent and shared inequitable to the consumers are providing the data. So so, you know, we're we're open to it. Because to be Frank. You know, we still need lots of new therapies for diseases. Right. So I mean, they're look at Alzheimer's, for example. Right. I mean, Alzheimer's is on the verge of bankrupting our our economy, and we haven't had a single drug approved. Right. So I mean, they're still working needs to be done there. And we think this. Data collecting can be valuable for discovering new therapies, and and so we do need to partner with those groups. Yeah, I actually thought that the curfew Alzheimer's had been discovered involved putting M C T oil in your coffee brain games on your cell phone. Yeah. Pretty sure. That's that's how it works these days. Yeah. In some push-ups in the middle. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. To certain extent, pushups and Wim Hof breathing. Yeah. When it comes to what we can actually gather from the microbiome data, and this is kind of kind of delve into some of these personalized recommendations that you're talking about that this this dashboard that you've created is able to produce how does that actually work like, how do you go from stool to shotgun to donate green beans is it mostly it's based on as alluding to a clinical trial, which were just sending off for peer review and just now. So it's actually the trial was extraordinarily terms of we ask people to give a complete you know, sort of filter. Big trial internally population mixture, mostly IBS and healthy IBS IBD and healthy controls. It was a lot of quantified metrics of what's what are issues nine point measurement scale. We had an internal Airbnb external RB review the study just completed in December. And the results are really shocking because it was small of small trial ninety six people, but even just in that trial. We had almost perfect classification of people separating out IBD IBS from healthy controls like we could tell like, we're looking not just at bacteria or viruses. But across all domains of life to see what the separation is. It was actually, you know, literally, some of the best that I've ever seen as geneticist in my entire career in terms of separation clearly show people that are at risk and people that are healthy. So that was already exciting. But then also we did try different recommendations based on time points as we think I wish everyone was sampled dozens or hundreds of times, I Delia minute by minute basis. But in the. Case we only to poop ally could probably test me few hundred year, some interns that could this could be a good partnership. We did ten points, which is the bare minimum to make line. But it was a sense of what to recommend that zero and thirty what did the species that change in also more importantly, what was the outcome. So that you were looting earlier like people talk about probiotics, and maybe they can help our what did you take vitamins supplements? But are they working in here, we could quantify was it actually helping it fifteen end thirty. And so that was just these people again product and also or or product or it all depends, depending what we found. And it's the customization is driven by their microbiome. Okay. A lot of these other companies customize based on the intake survey, not actually on your microbiome data, and you were you were able to use because you guys are tied to thorn, just the thorn broad suite of the different prebiotics and probiotic formulations. They have access to you just kind of pick the ones off the shelf that seemed to work best for that person. So you're slapping those on these people with IBM IBS, and then re-testing happens and also looking at symptoms points go for gut health, which includes things like how often did you have diarrhea? Something's obviously you have diarrhea constipation. But I think he just didn't general feel pain or did you have gas Jimmy bloating? What is the general sort of physiological responses you had in your gut? And actually, I mean one of the most one of the best Christmas presents we had was getting some emails just from the customers who said things that were really just like, you know, that they've they've had gut issues for for five six years NFL awful in suddenly for the first time, you know, almost decade some of them, they feel great, and it was really ordinary to see that which gives us the inspir-. Really push harder and faster. But but also think as Piques the curiosity of will wide it. Some people have an extraordinary response. Suddenly feel like felt the best. They have been to see what happens just took some random pro bottom until they take or know what we did. Here was a trial. We had three groups healthy controls as a placebo plus two IBS IBD, but we're going to ramp up now a sort of a double blind placebo. Trump's gonna say see trial interesting on and healthy control serve a little bit purpose. But doing it as double blind is next and also expanding the scope of it. So that's what we're launching probably Tina this month or next month. And I mean, the results is really extraordinarily to see clearly people are benefiting extremely excited. But now, we wanna tease out molecular level what's driving that what's pushing direction. How I was going to say, that's my understanding is we still don't know why we still don't know what's going on there still some questionable science in terms of how much of that probiotic even survives the acidic nature of the stomach and most populating attract great, great points. And most of them do not not only from working at our company, but also in our labs, but other on advisory boards for a variety of other companies in the microbiome space. And this is a universal feature. Everyone who's trying to look at can we get something to get into your gut and colonize, it's actually really really hard. I've seen numbers is lowest five or ten percent highs thirty percent of people were take something actually stay in you. You're basically transplant a little species into ecosystems that's already pretty settled. So it's not surprising. Actually that all these studies you've seen and read about products, a little, you know, products, you have to keep taking them which is great for business model, but it's not great. If you wanna take like, your gut has these like a patches of soil that are waiting to be planted. Right. So they have these other bacteria than in in various niches that they hold onto for dear life and a lot of the molecules that small that bacteria secrete are things to kill other bacteria to keep them off their turf, right? So this right. Well, I mean, it it's like a lot of things like I don't just drink one Cup of coffee on a Monday and stay awake and alert the rest of the week my coffee every. Day taking probiotic every day. Thorn, actually, make a special kind of probiotic that's supposed to seed the gut that because you hear about soil based probiotics. I know there are companies now in -veloping the probiotic and like LG or kelp or something like that to get it to to see the stomach. So they they do produce probiotics that have clinical evidence behind them like f- blarney, right? Would be a good example where you literature, and you can actually see an IB patients that there is a positive outcome. And just because even though it doesn't graft into the microbiome doesn't mean it's not providing benefits. Right. So it could provide benefits because it's transient secreting things as it's in there or creates stimulation, but just by exposing tough to the immune system that ultimately result in the beneficial. That's how even helmet there were the use of tapeworms or whip worms which which people do to modulate the strength immune system. I've done that. But you choose strains that actually don't populate the gut their transient passengers, but they still modulate in effect on the immune system. Yeah. So even if they don't graft. I think the important point is doing work they still might have ineffective. Right. Even transient that useful. We just have to know for who and win. Right. You just have to get past the itchy asshole swelling. Yeah. Which some people that want that so different customer base in we're open, helping everyone can be entertaining. When you're at your asshole. So back to the food. So you've got the stool sample you've done the shotgun. Sequencing. Now, you're generating the list of food recommendations with these folks in this study, it sounds like you were using probiotic and product formulas. Did you also test out these food recommendations, we send the recommendations out and we asked about compliance. So for example, a gluten free dairy free. We also would sector setting with clinical trial. We just separated this out a couple of weeks looking at the data because some people already on gluten for your dairy diets. So we want to separate out. Well, if you're already a diet, maybe you, you know, you wouldn't have seen as much improvement. But if people really we made a recommendation of what they should eat or the type of diet did that have an impact. And so. We could see that that's Pacific recommendation with the foods, but also the broad class diet, they significant improvement in their and their scores of know point. Oh three so it was very significant, and it's a small cohort. But we could see that was it different. And the majority people improved. I think this is where Jimmy goes in the future. Because again, remember where about not only information, but about the whole integrated experience and delivering the actual solution to the problem we find. So I think as we go forward, you know, you're gonna we're gonna see ability to start living even some of the the food products that we can verify. Okay. What when when you're making the food recommendations because I've toyed around with using data that I've gotten from other microbiome testing companies there's a list of foods to eat and the list of foods to avoid, and and that's what you get when you're generating your list of food recommendations, are you saying Mediterranean, diet, paleo, diet, Kito diet food elimination diet, or is it just like eat these foods? Void these ones. Like how comprehensive are these dietary recommendations about both those things and also. Specific recipes. So one of the things getting you know, Kieschnick diets can be limiting in terms of ingredients. So we partnered with some shifts that can get very nice actual meal on my dashboard. I can actually select what I'm going to have for breakfast, lunch and dinner based on my microbiome results. We have the recipes. I don't know if it's broke them by meal yet. But the that we could add easily can I get my food delivered to me if I don't wanna make myself. So we have some discussions with fiv companies about this this exact idea. And so that that I think completes the circuit of, you know, everything from what we've measured in you, making sure we deliver that would be pretty damn cool. I realize there are a lot of people out there who are like, oh, you lazy bastard Tempe meals in your kitchen. They wanna live there. You know, say they're efficient instead of lazy. They wanna get things done. You. Choose your own adventure to right? You could you could use the recipes that are generated for you by the artificial intelligence on the dashboard or you could theoretically, and it sounds like you guys are building this end. Just click and sign up for delivery service. And it's. It's not laziness it's anything you can do to increase compliance. Right. So if you actually go to the major the healthcare system and traditional healthcare, the biggest problem, we have is getting people to comply with what they know. They should do. Right. So this is why you gotta make it easy. That's how you're gonna get the health outcomes. And I mean, basically, the food basically genetically tailored for what's inside you. So, you know, and it's early days in this regard. So we've got promising results in clinical trial in our early customers. But we we want to actually really engage customers a lot of our literature and language on the website is really viewing all the customers as partners in this in improving how we science and medicine, and there's a lot that we don't know you that the world doesn't know yet about these relationships between food and microbiome, and this is something we're gonna learn along the way getting back to the I part of it. There's something an official called reinforcement learning, which is basically, you try a prediction, and you see if it fails or succeeds in if it fails, you sort of boost say the neural network towards the the thing. That that exceeded the first demonstration of reinforcement learning that really captured everybody's imagination was they had. I think it was Google had an algorithm that looked at Mario brothers and just looked at the screen, and it would randomly press buttons on the controller, and it would see if Mario would go, right. You know in advance or the score would go up. They would reinforce the them in that direction. Right. Saying, oh, I'm just randomly trying things. I'm reading this. This is a reinforcing that this is the right direction, but this thing by randomly pressing buttons. And getting this sort of feedback was able to play Super Mario brothers at superhuman abilities without ever being told what the rules are or what the game has. Right. So this is the type of thing you can learn with longitudinal data aspect with putting tools in the hands of our customers and partnering with them on on the sciences, we're gonna make recommendations some of them are going to be perfect. But the the system is closed loop. It captures that feedback begin apply reinforcement learning and then for the next person it's getting better and better and better in quantifies. It the measurement is one of the key features like Super Mario brothers. We. We wanna be the Super Mario brothers controller in your gut. I guess would be analogy. I think I think using the analogy of call of duty would probably little bit more palatable potentially sexy marketable to the general population tubes on my brothers against. But that yeah. I think this true. Yeah. That's true. It might be a little bit too old school. Now, when it comes to the other type of recommendations that you make on this platform, you talked about using the thorn suite of supplements to say, hey, here's here's your micro Buyum, and it sounds like coming down the road, the your blood results. Here's the actual suite of supplements that you need to take. But where I see the world going when it comes to personalise, nutrigenomics and customize supplementation would be that is actually customized to me that supplement exact or that that probiotic strain or that product. How close are we to that kind of technology? I think we can talk about it on the on the podcast, but let's say much closer than you think. Should I this out or like, can you just say, we're close? We're very close variety. Friends, very very close that you know, that you could be almost perfectly genetically tailored to what you would get perfectly genetically tailored right now though on micro by how come you guys aren't doing saliva, both the genetically tailored? I mean across all domains, they'd be microbiome that would actually Mullaly Mullaly because come into it as well. So you're going to start with gut yet, which is launched and you're gonna do blood and the genetics the support ship with drawbridge health, which their device the one draw devices under FDA review it now for finding what that is. Basically, can is this an FDA approved devices that you can't really bring anything to the clinic or and you shouldn't bring anything to the markets not gone through the FDA approval. So it's in the middle of that process, and we expect it, you know, soon said say spring, hopefully not later than summer. But then what are you talking about the blood? So that you draw the, and it's basically fits in the mail. So you can take this Popova under shoulder draws blood, and it does it on standard sort of collection plan instead of trying to do something. Unlike make an entirely new blood technology just a way to collect the blood then we send it to standard like that girl from Toronto. So that didn't work out. So well, I the only economic paper evaluating theranos against Labcorp. And that was on CNBC talking about it if someone wants to Google, but get into this, very different. So I was I contributed to the so you say I wouldn't have to drive to Labcorp no Quest Labs house, put it on your arm. It draws just a little bit of blood. Then I send that off. And I could theoretically send that off along with my bio molasses too. Well, that blood do genetics. Yes. Well, and why would you do saliva saliva? You can oral microbiome, and we're we're launching with saliva just because we can use that right now. But once the swimming, we get as much as we're seeing right now on the on the one device, you wouldn't have to do any more. You could get everything from the drone get DNA and also metabolites. Yes, we think it's gonna be a game changer for the draw side of it. And what one only because. Van puncture scares a lot of people just even get a single blood draw measurement, but another powerful application is getting into this longitudinal analysis rights, repeat blood draws become much more feasible over time and to build out that that dynamic lunch to profile and people can self administer and in the comfort of their home potential in the future, and that's all pending regulatory approval. That's pretty cool. It's a lot of data. You're going to be able to get. But it kind of reminds me of this this article, I think it was just a few days ago is reading about twenty three and me either got bought out or infused with capital by pharmaceutical company and pharmaceutical company may then have access to the data. And what if I don't want? My data public is doing with the customers data, but customers are opting out, and you can in if you want to share it data. And then also we've set it up. So that we will basically silo what is customer data. And if there's a moment, we have a partnership with a large pharmaceutical company or biotech, we have committed to sharing any of the revenues that come from that fifty fifty with the customers we wanna make it. So that if anyone's using your data, which is your right to give away to do with as you, please. If you've, you know, you know, basically generously given to the company for us to start to look at learn from. You should also benefit if you share that with anyone else in we wanna make that transparent, and you could make money off of my blood, and my poop poop could be extremely valuable this this could take donating sperm the next level three flush it away every day. But it could for microbiome transplanted very much sort of a gold mine. That's so what you're saying. If I were to test with jeopardy, and whatever five ten years from now, this data were to were to be something that I had opted in and was okay with being sold out ex outfit from direct taking part in these tests. Yeah. Which which builds a long view of the data, and what we wanna do that we want to really encourage people to be partners. And so the the more measurements get whether it's blood microbiome metabol- makes the genome doesn't change that much. But all that information has value for to learn and improve not only for the customer for the reason why we're able to do this, and it gets back to our business model because again, a lot of these companies who are getting customers to subsidize the cost of the testing front, and they're making their sole way of making money is through these data partnerships. Right. So so hoarding, you know, proprietary data is really central business model because they have no other way of making money. In fact, might be losing money on the up front test hoping to make money on the back end. And these recreational health information companies because we are delivering products that people only keep buying if they're actually fixing health problem, we make money on products. We have the freedom. You know, in a way are this. I even the freedom our business model. Enables us to be, you know, open with the data and share back with our customers. That's interesting. Now, there are companies like a DNA fit, for example, that are making recommendations on exercise are yo- power responded versus an endurance responder. Should you be going higher up flow, wait highway low Rupp, are you guys going to be working kind of exercise or lifestyle recommendations? Yes, sports. Human performance will be vertical Zack. Yeah. So again, it's it's it'd be better like the DNA you can get a general recommendation. You know, it's like saying if you sequence baby at birth and say how tall I think is baby will be or risk of disease risk of cancer, breast cancer. You can put up numbers where sometimes called risky grams of what is the likelihood, and it's a broad. Yes. But I'm going to I'm going to be more forward and say most recommendations based on DNA are bullshit because and so I wrote a book called exploring personal genomics. It was one of the first books exploring personal genome someone that I'll link to that in the show notes, by the way, just a quick reminder for you guys. If you forgot already show notes are Ben greenfield, fitness dot com slash one Jedi. What's the name of that book, Joel exploring personal genomic book recommended? Oh, the first year medical students at Cornell. So when the jobs book came out we'd met a few years ago. This is actually a great book that summarizes kind of you know, if if the textbook didn't exist that would've wanted to write it. But basically summarized everything you could know about well if. Genome sequence could you do and learn so lots of illustrations, very large words pictures, crowns, I'm in these continue. And so so I'm not coming at this from someone who doesn't didn't participate in this. When I was a PHD student at Stanford actually was lucky enough to be on the first paper was published in the Lancet of the first clinical assessment of a whole genome sequence that was used clinically by actually Steve quake's genome. Steve is a pioneer in gene sequencing technology in an entrepreneur. So this was way back in. I think two thousand ten I think we did this study. So I've actually been in this business of clinical use of genomics for a long time. But and so where the DNA is really useful is when you have something really wrong with you. Right. So if you have a rare inherited genetic mutation like, delta 508 cystic fibrosis mutation or any of these inborn errors of metabolism or hardcore cancer, you know, some attic mutation that. When you have those DNA dysfunc-. You you probably know before you can sequenced on right because he's our severe the run the family often, there's haired ability, and it's clear belong before they make sense. And it's really I think the analogy though, sheet music, right? So DNA sheet music, and it has actually not totally useless in informing health because otherwise we wouldn't be measuring either. But it's sort of like the scaffolding that dynamic measures of blood and microbiome and things need to be put on because it is informative, but it can only explain very small amount of of your your health outcome, and it is useful. But it's just sheet music and people need to realize it doesn't tell you how the notes are being played in your body got it. Okay. So eventually the exercise and the lifestyle recommendations will be rolled out, but they could potentially be more comprehensive because of the shock on sequencing and blood testing, and and blood testing that goes along with the gut and correct me if I'm wrong here. But did you say you're already doing the saliva? We're launching in three weeks. Yeah. So basically, you can then Slava kit and get your genome sequences. Well, today, what's launched it on your whole genome? That's different the twenty three important distinction there as well. As almost every other company out there does just a what's called a micro array, which means, you know, your your genome, it's three billion letters three point one billion letters. And if you're looking at a book, you know, Twenty-three me does a lot of other companies. They only look at about one million of those letters out of the three billion. Right. So you really missing a lot of the information across the genome in terms of risk for disease. What you could optimize for performance or even just traits. And so we do a whole genome sequencing to get as much information as possible. So at this point, then I've got all this data coming in. You guys are going to be rolling out the exercise lifestyle diet food. You've already got some of the supplement recommendations, but the become more more customized and tailored to me. What's this this dashboard? Really looked like that. I log into his their app is it like a bunch of graphs like like, how does this actually work from user interface standpoint? I'll jump in. So I think we wanted to make a lot of depth boards that exist, really clunky or non informative or sometimes to informative. So we wanted to make it as clear as possible on that dashboard. You'll see what are your levels of of vitamins that we can measure both it'll be in your blood as well as we can being produced by your gut. What are some of your general recommendations and risk for constipation diarrhea, general inflammation, we give? Centrally what's driving some of the Phoenix cores that people have been reporting, and we can predict from the microbiome. And then again, we integrate was present in the in the blood what's being the sort of molecular potential of what's in your or in your genome. So you'll be able to see those they are graphs charts. But, but they're very clear and very simple in every sort of chart has if you want more information on a dive deep into what are the dozens of papers that support this in the from the scientific literature. You can see that. If you wanna go deeper into how vitamin B six made. And what else do we know about? And you know, what is full acid? You can you can. Look at that details, and I think it what the future roadmap has building in tools into this part. So people can start to run test on themselves and trials on themselves. Because ultimately, really you shouldn't believe one jeopardy or any company. That's giving this information. Because again, we're sometimes they're basing this on the best published literature that might come from like New England Journal medicine from huge trial. But it doesn't mean, you know, in every case, it's always going to work for you. We're going to bring the best. I it's possible. But the whole point of jetty to is learning in filling in the gaps in and things we don't know and really bringing it down to the level individuals. So the product roadmap we're going to start to build in the ability to do single of trials, basically. Right. So you get your this information. And it's gonna be a lot of things you could do, but you're gonna wanna be able to set your own goals. Right. And say like, okay. Well of all these things I want to prove my sleep or whatever. And here's these things I could do and I've got this recommendation for X product, whatever I'm going to start to conduct a trial. Right. And then. And see how we do it. So I actually, you know, in the economic side, we just published a paper on the statistics because doing a single trial individual prevent statistical challenges. Right. But there's ways to do it. So I just published a paper with people on my team on one trials and all the mathematics behind that. But we can actually wrap that into very user friendly experience where you say, okay. This is what you won't have to my is this the recommendation wanna take now we're going to guide you in a very user friendly way for you to run this trial on yourself, and you can see the results he was working, and if it doesn't our database improves, you know, and and then the next recommendation in hopefully can see for yourself that that works in the importance is everyone has a different baseline at a molecular level what you're measuring for even just your baseline body temperature. We always think you know, that we have you go to the doctor you get sort of standard blood panel. You have ranges, right? But even think about it that ranges, and some metrics are very broad. But the power you get from longitude note that as at your specific baseline. For you for your microbiome for your metabolites for the molecular features, and you want to know them after two or three time points, you can start to know that this is what the baseline isn't. So you look for deviated from that. Here's a secret. And in all of medical research is nobody knows what normal is or what it means. Right. So we every study you say we can carry compared to healthy normal controls, by the way, nobody has a clue what that word means how you quantify it. And it's usually the definition is they haven't we exclude people who have the disease purchase another diseases lab reference. Ranges are always just one big giant parabolic curve. So there was a paper and peons last year where they looked at these mental health outcomes are often used in drug trials, and what they did a longitude all analysis, and I could put the exact paper, and we're actually spending one from my lab that shows this is true, and cardiovascular and points that are used so basically profile individuals longitudinal, and you look at the intra individual variability of these of these measures and the inter individual between individuals. For some of these points that are using trials within individual enter individual very ability is bigger has a bigger variance bread than between subjects variability. Right. So if anytime you look so then that calls into question a lot of clinical trials is because the within into vigil variance much higher. So this is why as Chris mentioned we need to do this longitudinal. Profiling we need to set individual baselines for for that individual. Yeah. Now. People know, they've listened this podcast. I'm big into self quantification. No, there's gotta be like ten different lab tests that I do during the year from all four corners of the planet. So I'm juggling. I mean, you ought to see my dropbox folder my lab results. Folders it's all over the place. Now. What I want? And what I imagine is that I can get all this done in just one place and have access to my entire dashboard and all the data in just one place. The this kind of begs the question, though, like what what are you not doing like, what are things that people might still? I mean like could you test lying or mold or Mike, O toxins? Can you do micronutrients? I mean, how deep can you go with this stuff? Really? I mean, the we've gone really deep other studies from from my lab Joel's lab. I mean, I so this is the core of the of the platform at launches microbiome blood cancer genome, but we can go very very broad. So the where we wanna go next is, you know, further optimization of what we can recommend for people. What they get more. The genetic tailoring molecular tailoring what you get. But there's lots of things that we've published on that we know are can give you measures of health, wellness, and general even longevity. So this would be EPA genetic age. And what was your effigy chaining, which is the small chemical features of your DNA in how regulated? So we've published extensive work on EPA genetics now that changes in normal people and also in canter, so we wanna see that as a metric we can look at even the clone -ality of of what sort of cells in your blood, which is called a clo- polices. Just means you know, what proportions of cells are in your blood, and that can also indicate risk for disease, even just reading sort of blood age if you will. And then we don't wanna open up to people basically to everything we've done before for astronauts. I think everyone should be able to be treated like an astronaut and everyone should have the right to query any molecule. I wanna sure hell be treated like extra not. So we've done hero the helmet. Yeah. You should do the cool home. That you have a bus take you to Eckstein Hong open the soya's. Yes, it's rush. I want this you nurse smuggle something I wanna monkey to go to space. We've got a monkey here in the office somewhere will grab it of the. It's just I like poker monkey like a real login like Russian space really really dignified dignified, so them. But we have a paper coming out shortly on the NASA twin cities so for those astronauts, we were sending one twenty two space in his identical twin Marquette day on earth for a year. And we want to measure them for twenty seven months in the question. One of the question. Studies will what changes when you're in space for a year for that long of mission? What should we look for in? Because fundamentally we don't know in the sense. We never sent a human space for year Nasr's never done that. So we didn't know what to expect. So we measured everything we could in the study, which is coming out truly it was genetics. Epa genetics. Look at a sort of proto protein changes look at small metabolites microbiome looked at vascular looked at sort of cognitive speed and abilities. And that was that was really just to see what happens to the body and space. We also pioneered new ways to do sequencing in the space station for the first time we could sequence DNA in space do diagnostic essays anywhere. Early in the space station. So the future I think is to do more of the omits because you'll get more power that way, more time points and make it more personalized that. If you want to do some of the sort of end of one trials on yourself at home to test something quantifies eve at works who want to empower that. If even start to do some of the sort of metrics and measurements at home. We want to empower that one device where you can draw blood anytime anywhere and ship it what about data from this ring that I'm wearing like that does sleep or apple health data. What about rolling that into the dashboard to get more of the technical self Quant stuff like HR V body, tamp heart rate, it's huge amount of my research at Mount Sinai has been on wearables, actually, I was part of the founding institutions at worked with apple on the on the research kit platform when we published studies huge huge studies using research kit, so have a huge amount of experience, and that that is definitely coming in. And we'll we'll be pulling that information in and I think is coming in that sure that's in the product roadmap. Cool. So the, you know, we're not. We're not microbiome company. We're not a testing company where again, a health intelligence company. Right. So we're going to bring bring in whatever. The best information the best testings we're going to be on the lookout for different testing modalities. Because again, we're not testing company where this where health intelligence consumer health solutions company. So, and you, you know, even things like your own health records went be off the table. In terms of things we bring in a huge amount of experience in my lab, importing my health records. Yeah. From say bec- or something like that. So very useful in that depict paper Joe's lab, which is on using a lot of machine learning for large scale analysis of electronic health record debt. And it was the first paper I really had of that scale in the kind of directly like like a guy like me who is very into my health. And optimizing Java could Walton and take that that clunky. Dropbox folder and just like have it all live in one spot? Be. Be browse -able have draftable. Also, make it useful. I mean, I think the the biggest problem that we've seen in field. And a lot of other companies even academic groups as you make a lot of pretty pictures. But there's nothing you can really do with them. So we want to map something's going in the right direction around direction and things that you can order or that you can do testing on to improve it they want. This is really damn cool. I wish you guys are doing all of this right now. But you are doing the gut and the saliva pretty much right now. Okay. So so the name of the gut tests is bio got bio-, okay. By one Javadi. Yes. So the way that people could do this as they could go to the website. It's one jeopardy health dot com. You can go to one if listing he'd go to one jeopardy health dot com. And then if you click there, you you could kinda browse around you have any pictures or screen shots there of the dashboard. And what it looks like it's just because I know some people visualize this again, those you can get history of how we got involved in the research, and our backgrounds that that'd be very cool. To be able to look at what you can't see on the podcast when it comes in with this dashboard looks like so I'll linked to this website one Jedi health. And then these guys have been kind enough to set everybody who's listening up with a discount on the test. So this test do this this shotgun. Sequencing of your gut is a three hundred forty nine dollar tests. That's where you get the six gigabytes of data and the thirty eight trillion plus microorganisms in your gut just use code Ben twenty that's been two zero at one jetty health dot com, and that will save you twenty dollars off of this test. So use that you get the kit to your house where there's like two three weeks. Okay. And it's different to companies like eight to twelve weeks to get a long time. It's too long things to be. Everybody's always on holiday loves it shouldn't be a few. Just do it right at your house, and we'd have your customize Jimmy to just pops up results every morning, pretty cool like Japanese toilet plays music and has the little heated seat heated seat and directed flow. Or if you if you ain't at just right man, that's pretty cool experience just saying healthy spent a lot of time on those Japanese toilets playing around with those buttons and gone some places that I can't talk about on the podcast today because there might be children listen, but regardless you got a one jeopardy health dot com. The gut bio is the name of this test and you use code Ben one five, and as they as they roll out more tests all keep you guys posted because I plan on doing every single test that they do to start to build my own dashboards. I go along because I I do a lot of research into what companies actually have access to the money the labs that technology everything necessary to actually produce a lot of the things that we talked about on the show today, customized food delivery. Eventual blood testing eventual, customized personalized nutritional supplementation based on your data. These folks are actually positioned to do this at one Jedi which I like, so you're probably gonna hear possibly another podcast in the future. As more test get rolled out, but for now, this gut bil-, but one Jedi giving everybody who listens in a twenty dollar discount on this test. So twenty dollars off the test when you go to one jetty health dot com, like oh, N E Jedi health dot com. Jeopardy health dot com. And that's where you can get this gut bio tests, which is the first test that they're rolling out. So the code over. There has been twenty at one Jedi health dot com. I am going to put all of this into the show notes, which again, you can get ben- greenfield, fitness dot com slash one Javadi. If you go to finish dot com slash one Jedi. You can also pipe. In leave your questions. Leave your comments. I know some of the stuff kind of confusing in terms of it seems like, you know, everybody's testing the gut it cetera et cetera. But hopefully, just some of those questions today if you have more though, go to the website, Ben greenfield, fitness dot com slash one jetty leaving there and fellows, take this in the bathroom. Now poop in it. And yes, try this out. All right, cool. I'm gonna play around with this. And Chris Joel thanks for coming on the show guys. While more go to Ben greenfield, fitness dot com. Where you can subscribe to my information packed and entertaining newsletter and click the link up on the right hand side of that webpage says Ben recommends you'll see a full list of everything ever recommended to enhance your body and your brain finally to get your hands on all the unique supplement formulations that I personally develop you can visit the website of my company kion at get K I O N dot com. That's get K I. I N dot com.
NPR News: 08-23-2019 11PM ET
"Live from n._p._r. News in washington. I'm nora raum. President trump announced via tweet today increased tariffs on chinese products. N._p._r.'s tamra keith reports president trump has instructed the u._s. trade representative to increase by five percent tariffs imposed on five hundred fifty billion billion dollars worth of chinese imports tariffs are taxes and economists say they will ultimately be passed along to u._s. Businesses and consumers. This is the the latest escalation in an ongoing trade war earlier in the day friday china announced it would be imposing new tariffs on seventy five billion dollars in u._s. Goods goods in retaliation for u._s. Tariffs trump expressed dismay at these retaliatory tariffs saying they were politically motivated and that china shouldn't have done it trade talks between the two nations are set to resume in september tamra keith n._p._r. News the white house president trump is to leave within the hour for a resort in south th- western france to attend the g. seven summit the annual gathering of the leaders of seven advanced economies. This year's meeting comes at a time of growing concern earn over the world economy trade and climate change are also expected to be discussed according to the centers for disease control. One person has died of severe lung disease linked to e cigarette use n._p._r.'s ellison aubrey reports. The state of illinois has not released any details about an adult who died died after being hospitalized with severe lung disease following e cigarette use the state health department is reporting twenty two cases of people hospitalized with severe unexplained unexplained respiratory symptoms after vaping the majority are men average age is twenty three nationwide investigators are looking into cases in twenty two states eight. Here's the f._d._a.'s mitch zeller we find ourselves in the in the early stages of these investigations trying to piece together the facts in some cases patients have acknowledged using t._h._c. t._h._c. products but there's no specific product or compound linked to all the illnesses allison aubrey n._p._r. News the supreme court issued a statement statement today. The justice ruth bader ginsburg has completed radiation therapy for a cancerous tumor on her pancreas and she's now cancer free. N._p._r.'s n._p._r.'s nina totenberg reports. The eighty six year old justice was treated for three weeks at the memorial sloan kettering cancer center in new york. She has been very the active during the time that she's been in new york getting treatment. She's been to the movies the theater. She was photographed with saturday night. Live kate mckinnon at the hitters theater when the two met there. She's been applauded. She's been a window shopping and clothes shopping but having said that there's there's no doubt that this is serious n._p._r.'s nina totenberg reporting this is n._p._r. News from washington a red flag law goes into effect in new york state tomorrow it will allow judges to order the guns be taken away from people found to be dangerous to themselves or others for as long as a year the judge must i consider evidence of the danger and the gun owner would have the right to appeal opponents say would interfere with the rights of law abiding citizens seventeen states and the district of columbia have similar laws to former houston. Police officers are being charged in connection with a botched drug rate earlier this year that left a husband and a wife dead houston public media's floor and martin reports. One of the officers is being charged charge with murder in january houston. Police executed a raid on a suspected heroin drug house that resulted in a shootout harris county district attorney. Kim onc says his former officer gerald coins lied on the affidavit used to obtain the search warrant because the execution of the war resulted in forced entry into the home armed police officers members of point squad shot and killed regina nicklaus their dog. Five officers were also injured in the rate. Police did not find heroin in the house. The other former officer is being charged with tampering with the government document for n._p._r. News news on flooring martin in houston stocks toppled on wall street today after the escalation of the trade war between the u._s. and china the dow jones industrial average plunged six six hundred twenty three points. The nasdaq lost two hundred thirty nine points and the s&p five hundred closed down seventy five. I'm nora raum n._p._r. News.
#77: Our Take, October 21, 2019
"Welcome to healthcare rounds the podcast serving you the INS and outs of health policy and business topics as well as our take on the rapidly evolving healthcare delivery ecosystems as since California enacted its drug price transparency law nationally the annual rate of inflation during that period was two percent generic drugs had is on a state university just before opening arguments were expected to begin last Wednesday the presiding judge announced in San Francisco Superior Court that Sutter Health on of California's largest health systems have reached eighteen hundred self funded health plans in northern California became plaintiffs last year the state's attorney general filed a second lawsuit against Sutter Health and the Appro luminaries settlement agreement in an antitrust lawsuit initiated five years ago by Labor Union the lawsuit subsequently gained Class Action Status when approximately fifty lawsuits were later combined the Sacramento based nonprofit health system has been accused of stifling competition through clauses built into its contracts with health plans the plaintiffs in the case claimed that Sutter's tactics grow up the cost of care significantly in markets the health system dominated with twenty four hospitals thirty four surgery one thousand products the Bristol Myers Squibb visor alliance is collaborating with Fitbit to identify people who are at increased risk for stroke nine hundred million in damages but the law allows juries to award triple damages perhaps legal counsel was finally able to convince Sutter officials it's released whatever the reason behind sutter's decision to settle left wait a little while longer for any legal precedence this case might have established regarding injury that the details probably would be made public early next year during approval hearings NPR reported here's our take we've been following this case I associated press reported that sutter could have paid almost three billion dollars in fines if it had lost the lawsuit health plans in the case were seeking centers and roughly fifty five hundred physicians sutter health reaches far and wide details of the proposed settlement have not been released the judge informed trust lawsuit so another opportunity may not be far off here's what else he needs to know the wholesale acquisition cost of drugs as it unfolded and we were curious as to how it would play out sutter indicated as recently as a couple of weeks ago that it intended to put up a fight insisting that it had done nothing the largest media and increased during the reporting period at thirty seven point six percent in this I report state officials analyzed pricing transfer approximately receive alerts about possible heart rhythm irregularities and encourage them to consult with their physician according to the press release in two thousand nineteen an estimated increase by a median of twenty five point eight percent from January twenty seventeen through march of this year or approximately eight percent annually according to the first report wrong hurt competition in the markets it serves in blaming northern California's higher cost of care on insurers we can only speculate about what caused the change in court that can detect potential atrial fibrillation after the FDA cleared software fitbit will work with the alliance to provide information to device wears how's it going to trial wasn't worth the risk either financially or in terms of the health system standing within the communities it serves a more plausible reason though is is that sutter would prefer to keep information about its contracting policies from becoming public knowledge by settling the case the health system has more control over the information the through earlier detection of atrial fibrillation B. M. S. advisor said in a joint press release dip it has developed software for its wearable devices Tori pricing practices depending on the terms of the settlement this case may still provide some insight if not sutter health still faces a separate federal anti Englewood health hackensack meridian health has seventeen hospitals and in affiliation with Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center Englewood health in most complex cases and when appropriate city of hope cancer experts will engage with the employees local primary oncologist to offer recommendations and assist Louis Health serves nine counties and has eleven acute care hospitals three acute care children's hospitals to accountable care organizations and numerous other facilities a clinical and academic affiliation twenty fifteen if state and federal regulators approved the merger Hackensack Meridian Health will make a four hundred million dollar investment and that will connect callers with nurses specialized support for complex cancers and reviews of diagnoses and treatment plans by city of Hope's physician specialists all three are named as defendants in federal trial in Ohio in which opening arguments are scheduled to begin this week earlier this month Johnson and Johnson and entities the two organizations anticipate reaching a definitive agreement by the end of the year to be completed the acquisition would require approvals from the Catholic Church based Treatment Center for cancer and diabetes to provide cancer support services to US Amazon employees and their families the services will include a dedicated fell in line hi percent of people who have the condition find out after they have a stroke and quote Amazon is partnering with City of hope a Duarte California ends with interpreting test results employees will also have the option to be evaluated at city of hope Hackensack Meridian Health and Englewood is is a three hundred and fifty two bed hospital near New York City a physician network and the Englewood Health Foundation meanwhile RWJ Barnabus health eight million people in the US will be affected by atrial fibrillation which can be a symptom attic the drug companies noted quote study suggests that more than twenty four health have signed a definitive merger agreement their boards of trustees announced last Tuesday the to New Jersey based not for profit organizations had already established as we reported previously purdue Pharma negotiated a tentative settlement valued at as much as twelve million dollars as part of its bankruptcy agreement is based in West Orange New Jersey signed a non-binding letter of intent to acquire traumatised regional medical center and it's affiliates located in Elizabeth Demint was state and local authorities to settle thousands of opioid related lawsuits for Eighteen Billion Dollars The Wall Street Journal reported on Thursday citing people familiar with the matter the pharmaceutical industries has reportedly offered to contribute drugs and distribution services as high as twenty nine billion dollars according to the Journal and State and Federal Regulatory Agencies finally drug distributors mckesson Amherst Bergen and Cardinal Health are discussing I'm your host John Chica. CEO of Darmon Research Group and faculty associate at the W P Carey School of business and the
#55: Our Take, June 17, 2019
"The. Welcome to healthcare rounds. The podcast, serving you the ins and outs of health policy and business topics as well as our take on the rapidly evolving healthcare, delivery ecosystem, I'm your host, John Murcia, CEO, Darmon research group, and faculty associate at the WTO Carey school of business and the college of health solutions at Arizona State University. I'm taking the helm this week to share my experience presenting in a conference. The conference excels, thirteenth partnering with ACO's and ID and Sunit included representatives from pharma, ACO's, and integrated health systems, Email me at J M at Darwin research dot com. If you'd like a copy of the presentation, I'm not sure why the meeting organizers structure at this way because ACO's in ends are two distinctively different entities and how far company would go about partnering with an ACO is very different from how it would with an idea. So, at the beginning of my talk, I felt the need to get some definitions out of the way. And they CO or accountable care organization is a group of providers and suppliers of services, such as hospitals physicians, and others involved in patient care that worked together to coordinate care for the Medicare fee for service patients. They serve beyond coordinating care. Every ACO has at its core. The triple aim simultaneously improving the patient experience improving the health of populations and reducing healthcare costs these days. Many ACO leaders talk in terms of the quadruple, which adds provider wellbeing to the mix of Jacob's in the Medicare shared savings program. Each ACO is given an annual budget CMS calls at a benchmark based on historical spending, assigned beneficiaries annually, shares and savings or losses against that budget. The amount of shared savings or losses, justed based on how the ACO performs on a set of thirty two quality measures conversely, the acronym ID n stands for integrated deliver. Network, but pharma uses the term to refer to any integrated health system, regardless of how integrated the idea, and actually is if you have to hospitals in a physician practice pharma will refer to you, as an ID, n I think that part of the confusion that healthcare professionals have about ACO's is it overtime. We've used the term to refer to other value based arrangements, the on college care model and the comprehensive ES, RDA care model for instance or referred to as specialty ACO's employers have come to expect an ACO branded product from payers, regardless of whether their shared savings focused on processor outcome measures or coordinated care. So, for example, Cigna offers a collaborative accountable care product, collectively, these are referred to as commercially CEO's employer's contracting, directly with payers under a budget with quality and performance measures for two as employer-based ACO's, and then there are Medicaid ACO. Ios which exist in about nine states. That's one reason why pharma has had a hard time. Justifying ACO's as a customer class worth paying attention to it's hard to focus on something with such a broad definition. And that's why encouraged farmers to think of is falling into two buckets with only Medicare patients, those that are physician group based in those that are part of Nigerian. I'd mitt that it's my bias to think of ACO in terms of the traditional Medicare, CO model, whether it be pioneer MSSP or next gen if more broadly, in ACO describes providers and suppliers, coordinating care with the overarching goal of cheating, the triple aim, perhaps there is room to be more inclusive when using the term. After a brief tutorial on a CEO's. We got into the subject of partnering I began with a statement, start with y borrowing from Simon cynics fame. Ted talk ask yourself big pharma. Why do you wanna partner with an ACO and why do you have thirty five account directors trying to work their way into the C suite of an idea in you may recall that cynics three word statement is about purpose and deeper? Meaning. So if your WI is about the patient that are patient access better, health outcomes and quality of life. You're on the right track. Put patients I it's not about the drug. We heard in nearly every presentation, your product is the last thing to be discussed when building relationships with ACO's or onions, one account manager said, quote, the people at the ACO aren't responding to us when we reach out to engage in those conversations, they're so anti industry. They don't see us as partners. Well, maybe in my experience, I don't find ACO's to be any more hostile to pharma than any other group. What the account managers comment reveals is that thus far? She has a transactional, relationship to a C E. She's a vendor, that's not where she would like to be. She continued quote. We want to accomplish the same thing, less transactional. More transformational more disease state awareness. She said it's not have to be a branded initiative. To achieve that goal to evolve from a transactional. Transformational, relationship farm, needs to clearly established its value proposition and tie that value proposition to customer goals with patients in mind. Achieving transformation is easier said than done one of the blues affiliates. The conference said that while they evaluated more than thirty value based contracts so far. They've only signed one Cigna, had few examples as well, mentioning the widely known value-based agreement for marks Geneva. In my presentation, I asked who had successfully partnered with an ACO in any way not a single hand was raised if we were to define partnering as executing value based contract or implementing a major data sharing initiatives. We know why they're so rare partnering hard. It's time consuming and expensive think of how difficult it must be for Merck and it's payer partners the track all of those patients, diabetes measuring their progress assessing adherence cetera. My biggest takeaways from the conference came during a panel session. I lead after dinner on the first evening. One of those panelists was Dr David Kermode who heads up auctioners physician group and SEO and likely point person for any strategic initiative with other providers suppliers. I he said, if you're trying to put together any major initiative with an idea, and it absolutely must go through the cease week second quote. I would max out at about five of these partnerships. He said, noting that there's only so much bandwith for strategic projects overall, I'd say with respect to ID ends the pharma companies we heard from are well, positioned to affectively manage relationships and of dedicated the appropriate resources for potential high level partnerships ACO's on the other hand, or a different story, several conference, participants acknowledged that there is an opportunity to work with ACO's to help them, lower costs and improve patient care. But despite the efforts of the presenters. It'll long way to go and understanding what does need and how best to approach them. Here's what else you need to know anthem signed a definitive agreement to acquire beacon, health options, based in Boston, and owned by Bain capital, private equity in diamond castle, holdings, beacon health is one of the largest independently held providers of behavioral health services in the US, serving more than thirty six million people across the country, including almost three million people in comprehensive risk-based Hazel programs according to anthem. If the transaction is completed beacon health president and CEO, Russell Trela will lead the behavioral health segment under anthems diversified business group anthem and closing the deal by year end financial terms were not disclosed a team from Penn medicine has created a clinical alert app that reduces stays in the intensive care unit. Or I see you. It's called the awakening and breathing coordination or ABC app, and it helps clinicians continuously evaluate, whether patients are ready to. Weaned from ventilator. The app also has an alert system, designed to help staff move patients along the weaning process. According to Penn medicines internal data the ABC app has lowered patients time on ventilator support by more than twenty four hours on average. Washington state's proposal to pay for hepatitis c drugs using a subscription model has received CMS approval the state can now, negotiate value-based drug rebate agreements with drugmakers. It's Medicaid program. Hang them, fixed annual amount for an unrestricted supply of hepatitis, C drug CMS has already granted approval to similar requests by Oklahoma Michigan, and Colorado. RWJ Barnabus health and Rutgers Cancer Institute of New Jersey announced plans to develop a new free standing cancer pavilion in New Brunswick, New Jersey in partnership with New Brunswick development Corp, at an estimated cost of seven hundred fifty million the center will offer outpatient services such as chemotherapy and radiation therapy, along with diagnostic inpatient services. They will also house research laboratories. At long last the New York proton center has opened stores located in east Harlem, the state of the art facility costs three hundred million to build planning began more than a decade ago. It's the outcome of a partnership between Memorial Sloan Kettering cancer center, Montefiore health system, and Mount Sinai health system cancer. Treatments are expected to begin at the center next month. On July first essentials leadership lineup will undergo several changes the Saint Louis based Catholic health system announced Tuesday among those changes Joseph, impeach e who has been essentials president and chief operating officer since January, we'll take on the roles of CEO and transitional president Anthony's Signi who is currently CEO, and we'll be retiring at the end of the year. We'll stay on as board chair for essentially capital, and as a consultant. That's all for this week from all of our when research group. Thanks for listening, if you haven't yet done so, please rate, and review healthcare rounds, wherever you listen to podcasts. Healthcare rounds is produced by Deanna Nicola JR. And engineered by Andrew Roja the music by John Murcia, Darwin research group provides advanced market intelligence, an in-depth customer insights to healthcare, executives are strategic focus is on healthcare delivery systems, and the global shift toward value based care. To learn more about us, go to Darwin research dot com or send an Email to insights at Darwin research dot com. Or if you'd like to get right to it. Call us at eight eight eight four zero two three four six five c next around.
7-30-20 What's News
"It's time for Nicole Sandler's let's news from Nicole Sandler Dot Com and the progressive voices network the US economy shrank at a whopping thirty two point nine percent annualized pace between April and June as the corona virus slammed businesses and consumers marking the nation's worst quarterly contraction ever. Separately the Labor Department said, Thursday morning that initial claims for jobless benefits rose to one point four, three, million last week. and Thursday morning Donald. Trump claimed without evidence that the twenty twenty election quote will be the most inaccurate in fraudulent in history adding delay the election until people can properly securely and safely vote. In case you were wondering the President does not have the authority to change the date of the election which under the constitution is set by Congress news breaking right. At press time that former presidential candidate donald trump supporter Herman Cain has died from the corona virus. He was diagnosed just two days after attending trump's rally and Tulsa and hospitalized shortly after more than one hundred and fifty, thousand people in the United States have now died of covid nineteen and global cases. If topped fifteen million, the United States has the most cases. With nearly four point five, million followed by Brazil with two and a half and India one point six, million cases Australia Japan recorded their highest single day case numbers yet and places like Italy which were hit hard at the beginning of the pandemic are extending emergency measures into the next few months and here in Florida, we broke yet another single day record on. Wednesday with a reported two hundred and sixteen more deaths. South Carolina's death toll past fifteen hundred this week more than doubling over the past month in Georgia where the governor is fighting the mayor of Atlanta's mask mandate hospitalizations of more than doubled since the beginning of the month and Texas confirmed three hundred thirteen additional deaths pushing its total to over sixty one hundred. Speaking of Texas Congressman Louie, Gohmert was supposed to ride with Donald Trump on air force one back to his home state on. Wednesday. But his Kovic screening at the White House, came back positive. Gohmert has frequently refused to wear a mask covering on Capitol Hill after his diagnosis he claimed that he had worn one frequently in recent weeks and showed his brilliance. When he speculated that he might have put quote some of the virus on the mask and breathed it in, which is not how doctors say nineteen is transmitted on Wednesday evening Speaker Nancy Pelosi announced that masks are now mandatory in the House and in the office buildings of the Capitol. Complex. Meanwhile, millions of unemployed Americans received their final six hundred dollar unemployment payment from the federal government last week and not looking great for continuation of the benefit Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi are nowhere nearer deal on the next relief bill. So this Friday twenty, five, million people will stop receiving an extra six hundred dollars in weekly coronavirus virus relief in their unemployment benefits. Adding insult to injury the federal moratorium on evictions expired last Friday Ending Protections for nearly twelve million renters and Saturday is the first of August when rent is due for millions who won't be able to pay it. Doesn't step in these people could be a victim come September. Oregon's Governor Kate Brown announced on Wednesday that the trump administration would start a phased withdrawal of federal agents who've clashed with anti-racism protestors in Portland beginning today. Brown tweeted that the agreement came after she spoke about the matter with Vice President. She said quote they have acted as an occupying force and brought violence starting tomorrow all customs and Border Protection and ice officers will leave downtown Portland. Acting Department of Homeland. Security Secretary Chad Wolf said the agents would leave if there is a significant easing of the quote violent activity that had been directed at those people protecting the federal courthouse he said the deal calls for a quote robust presence of Oregon State police in downtown. PORTLAND. But shortly after announcing that officers would withdraw the Justice Department said, it would then send those agents to Cleveland Detroit and Milwaukee in what it described as a bid to fight violent crime detractors have dubbed the move as a stunt designed to help the trump campaign pushed the notion of violent protests taking over our cities something. That is simply not true. axios on Wednesday, released a clip from an interview Jonathan Swan recorded with trump in which the reporter asked if trump questioned Vladimir Putin on their recent phone call about the reports of bounties paid to Taliban fighters in Afghanistan for American troops killed. It's been widely reported that the US has intelligence indicating that Russia paid bounties offered to pay bounties to Taliban fighters to kill American soldiers. You had a phone call with potion on July twenty third. Did you bring these? You know that was a phone call to discuss other things and frankly That's an issue that had many people said was fake news who said I think a lot of people So trump again chose to believe what many people say over his own intelligence agencies. He denied that the information came to his desk even after it had been confirmed that the intelligence was included in a presidential daily briefing that we know he doesn't read but he lied about that to you read your vision brace I do I read a lot I read a lot. They like to say or read I read a lot you're really. extraordinarily. Well. Probably better than anybody you've interviewed in a long time and then on Wednesday trump announced that the US would withdraw nearly twelve thousand troops from Germany a move with no apparent strategic purpose that will cost billions of dollars over the next few years to execute. The withdrawal has been criticized by both Democrats and Republicans, and international allies most think the move will weaken the US strategic position regarding Russia and undermine relations with Germany NATO and Europe. Republican Senator Mitt Romney even said the move was a quote gift to Russia trump tried to justify the decision by saying that Germany, doesn't spend enough on defense oh please. If you're like me, your stomach drops every time Justice Ruth Bader. GINSBURG name shows up in a news alert and it happened again Wednesday night Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg has undergone nonsurgical medical procedure at New York's Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center to revise a bile duct stent. The stent had originally been placed last year when Ginzburg was treated for a cancerous tumor on her pancreas according to Ginsberg's doctor this is a common procedure was done to minimize the risk of future infection and that the justice would be released from the hospital by the end of the week. And finally, Thursday is John Lewis's funeral in Atlanta. Barack Obama will deliver a Eulogy Bill Clinton and George Bush will attend John Lewis wrote an op Ed for the New York Times that was to be published day of his funeral which has arrived and the message he left us with quote when historians pick up their pens to write the story of the twenty first century let them say that it was your generation who laid down the heavy burdens of hate at last and that peace finally triumphed over violence aggression and war. So I say to you walk with the wind brothers and sisters and let the spirit of peace and the power of everlasting love be your guide. Rest in power congressman. Thank you for all you've done. And that's just a bit of what's news for. Now I'm Nicole Sandler if you appreciate these reports Emma Nicole Sandler show I hope you'll consider making a contribution my work is one hundred percent listener supported and I can't do it without your help find out more at Nicole Sandler Dot Com and please click on that donate button
The "7 Day COVID-19 Crash"
"Oh okay so good news is that it's sounding way better. Bad News is. There is a considerable amount of rust in my microphone. Wake in it's like what do you mean in the microphone? I don't know what's the producer like it's part acceler cable like in its but like in. It's a you're listening to shortwave from NPR. Mattie sify here in today I'm joined by science correspondent Jeff Brumfield harder Mattie. Hey Jeff so. You've been looking into a really puzzling feature of some cases of Cova nineteen. Yeah I don't think there's really a medical term for it but we'll just call it the seven day crash. Basically what happens? Is this when somebody gets Cova? At first they may not feel sick at all but pretty soon most people start to develop these symptoms. We've been hearing about fever. Chill maybe at dry cough and this stuff can go on for days and it can get pretty bad but for subset of these patients. They may start to feel a little better like they're turning a corner and then suddenly they get worse. Their lungs started deteriorate really quickly and they can end up in the ICU on a ventilator or even die and what you found in your reporting is that in some of these cases it might not be the virus directly. That's causing this crash. That's right it may actually be the immune system an overreaction to this deadly virus that makes people even sicker so today on the show. We're going to talk about. Why some people with cove in one thousand nine hundred go downhill so quickly. And how a certain set of drugs might be able to help. Okay Jeff so we're talking about how the immune system can make some cases of Kovic worse. Where do we start well? I think we should start with disclosure. Which is the you're the one with a PhD microbiology. Immunology and I on the other hand report on stuff like nuclear physics. This is not my strong suit. Jeff you are trying so hard and you've learned so much well I have. I've learned a lot. I mean like every other reporter in. Npr I've been drafted into covering the corona virus. And as I started talking to doctors started hearing about this sudden seven day crash that we are talking about C of kind of variable course where some people they come in they get better and then they go home and then there are others who come in. They get Stabilized Okay and they may do okay but then they worsen again at about the five to seven day mark. So that's Michelle in gone. She's chief of critical care at the MONTEFIORE medical center in the Bronx. She's right there on the front lines. Some of these patients were seeing very high. Fever is highest one. Oh nine one oh nine. Like I legitimately didn't know that was possible. That's like forty to forty two degrees Celsius. That's no joke. No and a lot of these patients end up on a ventilator and some don't make it so I started looking into what's going on like as I said I'm a physics nerd not a biologist and as someone who doesn't really know this stuff it just seemed weird that people could stabilize. Maybe even start to feel better for a little while and then suddenly have such a catastrophic term for the worst and pretty soon I started hearing this term from researchers and doctors some of these patients they think are suffering from something called a site kind storm. Yes sign storm. Okay Fun fact for a not fun. Situation Jeff cited Cranston was almost the name of my immunology department softball team. I honestly didn't know there were enough. Immunologist out there to have like a softball league okay. There are many and we're very athletic. Surprisingly I'll say well look since you're the one who knows about side kind storms. Why don't you explain it? Okay okay so basically and I mean. Basic goalie is good. Yes when the body gets infected by a virus your immune system is activated and sometimes the first immune cells on the scene. They need backup. And so they release these Little Messenger. Proteins called CYTOKINES. It's like a little cry for help that brings other immune cells in to fight the infection. Like T. CELLS. For example white blood cells that are particularly good at killing cells infected with virus. You still with Jeff. Yeah yes so basically. You're just saying that. Like decided kinds are like the key. To how all these immune cells talk to each other basically yeah normally the coordination of these little signals. These cytokines are really really tightly controlled but sometimes for reasons that we don't totally understand immune cells kind of get stuck in this cycle putting out more and more signs calling more and more other immune cells to an area lots of inflammation that in this case. Really messes up your lungs and makes you even sicker than you were before right and you know an immunologist that I spoke to Jessica Camerman the Ben Arroyo Research Institute in Seattle. It's been my lifelong dream to be on. Npr She laid out. This nice analogy a matching. Your body is like a big building and the viruses like a fire that breaks out in that building and the cited kinds are kinda like the fire alarm so inside kind storm. It's like the smoke alarm. Never turns off and you keep Firefighters are coming coming coming. They're spraying water everywhere knocking down doors with their axes. Doing all this damage and they can keep doing damage even after the fire is out even if the virus is nearly extinguished so viruses can cause storms like this. It's rare but the common flu can cause some patients to experience site a kind storms. And there's some evidence that happens during other corona virus infections like the original SARS patients. It also looks like it may be happening with this corona virus that causes cove. Okay Jeff these are very interesting ideas. But this is shortwave. So gimme data okay. So as we've discussed before on this show corona virus research is moving really really quickly and a lot of it is still an UN- peer reviewed places like even twitter but we do have case reports out of Europe and China and hammer man says the in those reports patients do show signs of a storm. Says some of those are very high levels of some of these cytokines in the blood of patients? There's other also. Other clinical laboratory measures of cytokine storm that are looked at that have been associated with this disease that are also being seen and hammer man says another clue actually be those weird seven day crashes so it turns out it takes about a week for the body to really build up. Its T. cells those cells. You talked about earlier. They're really good at fighting viruses so it may be that you need to wait until actually there's a sufficient immune response going on that thanking Dr. This sign storm. Okay all right. This sounds like it could be real to me. Jeff circumstantial but maybe real. Yeah and I mean look. I'm a journalist. I'm not a scientist bowel. Tell you the other thing I find really compelling is that all the scientists. I've spoken to say this just kind of make sense like they really think it's happening in fact there's a long running theory that the nineteen eighteen flu actually killed young and healthy people in the same way with these sites. Kind storms wild okay. So is there some way to stop these storms from happening? Jeff yes or at least there might be so it turns out that one of the types of cytokines one of the types of proteins that appears to be showing up a lot in these patients is called. Interleukin six or I'll six short who? Yeah that's a famous one like immunology circles. It does all kinds of stuff. Your body makes it when you have an infection or when you damage tissue like if you had a really bad burn but when I all six production is outta whack. It can lead to autoimmune diseases which also involved the body kind of attacking itself right and that's why people have developed drugs. That can block that site a kind. I'll sex basically. It's to treat those autoimmune diseases like rheumatoid arthritis for example right. Randy Krahn is at the University of Alabama Birmingham and he treats autoimmune disease in kids. These drugs and my opinion have been one of the greatest achievements in medicine. Last couple decades is the belly to target individual or few pro inflammatory cytokines. That cause disease now. These drugs are officially just for autoimmune disorders. But Krahn thinks they can be used in some patients who have covered nineteen. And it's not gonNA help the eighty five year old with hypertension and diabetes. It's just not but for those who don't have chronic underlying diseases and even for some of those who do is just maybe not a severe storm it will. It could potentially help them. Krahn thinks that other medicines like corticosteroids will help as well and he thinks they're some combination of these drugs that will calm the immune system down in potentially save lives. I think in a month or two. We're going to be able to help patients with cove in nineteen who were dying from side of storms and potentially bring them tally right down. Okay but we jeff I just WANNA take a step back here because what you're talking about in giving these powerful drugs is kind of turning down the immune system or part of it and we know that this is a really nasty virus that we need our immune system for. That's exactly right Mattie disagreeing with you at all I mean. This is the big risk of these therapies. Honestly the best defense humans have if they catch corona virus. At least right now is the immune system. Most of us who will get sick. We'll stay at home. We'll let our bodies work to clear the virus and we'll get better on our own so the idea that you'd turn down that system just when people are at their sickest it's really really dangerous and that kind of brings us to the last scientist. I want you to hear from. His name is Tobias Hall. He's Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center in New York City and he is really worried about what could go wrong. What is that? The infection could get worse. It could potentially increase the amount of virus in the body and in the loves another one hall says is the possibility of a secondary infection like a bacteria or a fungus that takes advantage of the weak immune system and ends up making the patient even sicker. Right right I don't want be a Debbie Downer but I think we have to be humble and just not assume that things are going to work and so basically Jeff. What this means is. We need more science right. We need rigorous studies to see when these drugs can help and who they can help right. I'm nodding for my pillow for Matty. Exactly the good news is that there are studies there well underway and they should give results in months rather than years. But I also have to tell you. I've spoken to doctors who are going ahead and trying to treat patients with these drugs now because you know they don't have a lot of options so they're being selective as they can and as careful as they can and one of those doctors is actually the guy you just heard talking about how dangerous this treatment could be to buy his whole He's there in New York. Where hundreds of people have been dying each day and despite his fears he is giving patients these drugs because the alternative is a ventilator and maybe even death okay. Jeff I appreciate you. Thank you for bringing us the story. Your Walk Medi. This episode was produced by Rebecca Ramirez and edited by Viet Lay. Emily von check the facts. I'm your host. Madison in this shortwave from NPR. See next week.
Federal officials consider who will get first dibs on a potential coronavirus vaccine
"Good Morning I'm James Holman from the Washington Post in. This is the daily two. Oh two. Thursday July. In today's news, the CEO's of the four biggest tech and get grilled on Capitol Hill over their market power. Ruth Bader GINSBURG is hospitalized. Again and President Trump pulls twelve thousand five hundred US troops out of Germany. But, first. The big idea. The United States reported just over one thousand, four, hundred fatalities yesterday from the coronavirus that is our highest death toll in two months Florida north, Carolina Idaho and California set new single day records. About. One hundred and fifty thousand Americans have now died since February from covid nineteen more than four point four million cases have been confirmed. and. When it rains it pours, Florida is closing all of its state run coronavirus testing sites as a tropical cyclone approaches highlighting how hurricane season making it even harder for hotspots to respond to the pandemic. Meanwhile in Washington, there is a meeting yesterday of a panel of scientists and public health experts to hash out who should get first dibs on a potential corona virus vaccine. These discussions are built around planning. That was developed back in two thousand nine during the H One, N one influenza pandemic. The highest priority would go to healthcare and essential workers in high risk populations. One proposed group would also. Include all adults as well as residents of long term care facilities and people with underlying medical conditions a Federal Advisory Panel that provides vaccine recommendations to the CDC present an overview of their priority groups last month, and then they met to discuss it yesterday. Lena. Sun who covered the meeting for US said they decided to divide workers at the greatest risk for exposure to infectious diseases into six different categories. There's healthcare support which includes home health aides and medical assistance healthcare practitioners, which includes doctors, dentists, nurses and pharmacists protective. Services, which includes police officers and firefighters childcare workers, barbers, and fitness trainers, and another group, and then social workers, probation officers, and health educators in another and finally educators with a priority for K twelve teachers. US officials have said that if a vaccine is shown to be effective, the first doses could be available by the end of this year. The final decision making will tastes price over the next few months and certain no matter what they decide to be controversial. The. Head of the Federal Reserve meanwhile said at a news conference yesterday afternoon that rising case loads are taking a significant toll on the economy and then getting the virus under control is the most important thing that can be done to turn the economy around Fed Chair Jerome. Powell says the data points toward a slowing economy and a slowing pace of recovery. He looked at various measures of consumer spending based on Debit Card and credit card use that have moved down since June. He also expressed concern that small businesses are not hiring workers back at the same pace they were hotel occupancy rates have flattened out and Americans are going to restaurants, gas stations and beauty salons less now than they were earlier in the summer. The, Fed's policy-making board decided to keep interest rates which are already near zero unchanged meanwhile on Capitol. Hill. Congress is nowhere close to a deal on a coronavirus relief bill a meeting between the treasures secretary him what has chief of Staff and Democratic leaders ended last night with no agreement on extending emergency unemployment benefits that expired Friday or on reviving the federal moratorium on fictions that lapsed last week that means some twenty million jobless Americans will lose six hundred dollars in their weekly enhanced unemployment benefits that Congress had approved back in March. All the talk on Capitol Hill yesterday was about Congressman Louie Gohmert the conservative Republican from Texas who tested positive for the virus. He has been seen regularly walking the halls of the Capitol without wearing a mask. He often did not socially distance and he only found out that he had the virus because he was tested by the White House in advance of a planned Air Force One flight with President trump to a fundraiser in Texas. But even as the congressman vowed to avoid spreading the disease to others, he continued to ignore expert advice he insisted on returning to the Capitol after he tested positive so that he could personally inform his staff. and. He used this platform to spread more false information about the virus saying that those who test positive later, become immune something that we've discussed here has not been proven in suggesting that face masks. Not, less likely that one could become infected. That's definitely not how it works. By the end of yesterday Gohmert had emerged as the national model for exactly how experts say people should not behave when they get cova? In fact. Gohmert didn't go back to his office. He apparently spent the night there. He's one of the dozen or so members of Congress who live in their house offices Democrats who work on the same or he does are irate that he apparently plans to stay there as he battles the Contagion House Speaker Nancy Pelosi responded to the Gohmert news announcing that all makers will now be required to wear a mask when they appear on the House floor. And that's the big idea. Here, are three other headlines that should be on your radar. Number One. Amazon's Jeff bezos apple's Tim Cook facebook's Mark Zuckerberg in Google's Sundar. Pichai appeared virtually for a House judiciary subcommittee hearing yesterday to fiercely defend their businesses as rags to riches success stories during a nearly six hour hearing where Democrats and Republicans confronted the executives about their market power while makers on the houses top antitrust subcommittee came armed with millions of documents, hundreds of hours of interviews, and the wants private messages of Silicon, Valley's elite chiefs. They argued that all of these showed that some in the tech sector have become too big and too powerful threatening rivals consumers and even democracy itself. Democrats. Repeatedly, confronted Zuckerberg with his past emails Congressman Jerry Nadler the Democrat from New York who chairs the Judiciary Committee brought up a twenty twelve message which Zuckerberg said he sought to acquire instagram which at the time was a rival APP out of fear that it could quote meaningfully hurt us. Later, Joe Negotia Democratic from Colorado pointed to other facebook internal emails that describe the company's acquisition strategy generally as a quote landgrab. Meanwhile. Amazon faced withering scrutiny over allegations that it may have misled the committee. The ECOMMERCE giant previously told lawmakers that it does not tap data from third party suppliers to do sales of its own products but democratic congresswoman Pernilla. Paul. Of Washington, state brought up public reports that indicated something to the contrary prompting. Bezos who the Washington Post and was delivering his first ever testimony to Congress to offer a striking admission of potential fault. David Cecil leaney a democratic. Congressman from Rhode. Island. Cheers. The antitrust subcommittee says he's going to issue a major report sometime in August outlining the case for updating federal competition rules to give regulators more power to probe and penalize the industry. Number to. The Supreme Court announced late last night the Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg had a quote minimally invasive non surgical procedure. A statement says that stint revisions are common occurrences and that this procedure performed using endoscopy and medical imaging guidance was done to minimize the risk of future infection according to a court spokeswoman the justices quote. Comfortably and expects to be released from the hospital. But the end of this week, our Supreme Court reporter Bob Barnes reports that Ginsburg is being treated at Memorial, Sloan Kettering Cancer Center in New York, where she received a bile duct stent a year ago earlier this month, the eighty seven year old was admitted to Johns Hopkins Hospital in Baltimore because of fever and chills possibly related to an infection. She underwent an endoscopic procedure there to clean out the stent that had been placed last August. More seriously GINSBURG announced July seventeenth that she has had a recurrence of cancer her fourth bout with the disease. Ginsburg said then that she is being treated for lesions on her liver. But that chemotherapy has proven successful if GINSBURG steps down, it would give trump the chance to make a third nomination to the Supreme Court even though it's a presidential election year Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell says, he would rush to confirm nominee before the election. This is a reversal from his position in two twenty sixteen when Barack Obama was president and he blocked Garland from replacing the late Antonin Scalia back then the Kentucky. Republican. said it would be hugely inappropriate and an insult to voters to confirm a justice to the Supreme Court during an election year. Number. Three. Defense Secretary Mark Asper finally unveiled the details of a long-awaited review of the US military presence in Europe announcing he will follow through on the president's order to pull twelve thousand five hundred US troops out of Germany, about fifty, six, hundred of those troops we'll go to Italy and Belgium the other sixty four hundred will be based in the US conduct some rotational deployments back to Europe this reduction larger than previously. Expected and will reduce the presence of U. S. troops stationed in Germany from thirty, six, thousand, hundred, twenty, four, thousand, trump said yesterday that he is doing this because Germany does not spend two percent of its gross domestic product on defense but insiders say that that's not really what's happening. He's doing this out of spite, and because of his personal dislike for the Chancellor Angela Merkel according to several people inside the administration. And it turns out that it only Belgium actually spend less of their. GDP. On defense than Germany does. So his argument doesn't even pass the smell test. On Capitol Hill members of both parties are I. Write that trump is weakening deterrence against Russia hitting a strategic gift of Putin and increasing tensions with NATO. Republican Senator Mitt Romney from Utah called trump's move a gift to Russia. That will make America less safe. He said is a slap in the face of a key ally and will embolden Putin to be more aggressive against Western Europe Senator Jack Reed from her island the top Democrat on the Senate Armed Services Committee described trump's move as a self inflicted wound that will do the opposite of what expert says it would and in another initiative spearheaded by ASPAR. A new mandatory Pentagon training course for all Department of Defense personnel refers to journalists in peaceful protesters as quote adversaries. That's right a new. Pentagon, training program describes protesters and journalists as adversaries. The training manual is public and includes a video message. From Esper- who had trump's direction is trying to crack down on leaks from the Pentagon. Meanwhile. In China an American cyber security firm says h Chinese state-backed hacking group targeted an infiltrated the Vatican this year in what the firm describes as an espionage mission aimed at gaining an advantage in diplomatic negotiations. The reported hacking comes at a time when the Vatican and Beijing. Are Looking into extending a controversial agreement on the process of appointing Catholic bishops inside China. The provisional deal signed two years ago is aimed at healing a decades long rift between the holy. See and China and eliminating a system in which some Chinese bishops pledge. Loyalty to the state and others to the pope. Hong Kong Police today meanwhile arrested four people between the ages of sixteen and Twenty one on suspicion of inciting secession. Marking the first targeted crackdown on opposition activists since Beijing enacted a controversial national security law late last month restricting many of the city's previous freedoms. And that's the daily two Oh two for Thursday July thirtieth. Thank you for listening. I'm James Hellman. Stay safe I'll talk to you tomorrow.