14 Episode results for "Medical Guide"

Are the vaccines safe? Answers to common questions and a prayer for knowledge and discernment

The Daily Article

09:08 min | 6 months ago

Are the vaccines safe? Answers to common questions and a prayer for knowledge and discernment

"This is the daily article podcast published by the denison forum or culture changing christians to receive the daily article directly to your email inbox. Week day morning. Visit the daily article dot com. Now here's today's news. Discerned differently as you consider your urine giving opportunities. Please pray about donating to the denison forum as a one hundred percent. Donor-funded christian nonprofit ministry. We rely in financial gifts to continue our mission of building. A movement of culture changing christians. All gifts will be matched up to a total of one hundred fifty thousand dollars and are tax deductible for this year consider giving today at daily article dot org note in response to my recent article on ethical issues related to the covid nineteen vaccines. Many readers and listeners asked medical and practical questions about them. I am not a medical doctor. And i am not offering medical advice in what follows but i hope the research i curated in. Today's article is helpful. As you consult with your physician and make your own decisions regarding the vaccine. Only we learned this morning. That french president emmanuel macron has tested positive for covid nineteen after experiencing symptoms and will get himself for seven days. He joins a host of world leaders. Who have tested positive for the virus since the pandemic began americans are experiencing more corona virus deaths than at any prior point in the pandemic at the same time the vaccines that have been authorized for use. Raise a host of practical issues in recent article. I explored the question of abortion related to the pfizer and moderna vaccine's. I'm convinced that life begins at conception and abortion is wrong for more go online to read my paper. What does the bible say about abortion however the consensus of medical researchers and evangelical ethicists is that neither vaccine contains material obtained from aborted fetuses while both used cells from the h. e. k. Two nine three t fetal cell line in the testing process we cannot know of this line originated in the nineteen seventies with an aborted fetus or a miscarriage. Since the records have been lost evangelical ethicists. Note that even in the worst case scenario using this line which no longer includes these original cells does not endorse abortion any more than the apostles endorsed the roman government by using roads. It built to spread the gospel for today. Let's discuss several practical questions. You may be asking as you consult with your physician and decide whether to receive a covid. Nineteen vaccine when one is available to you given the size and scope of this issue. I will offer brief answers to the following questions along with links to articles written by professionals in the field are the pfizer medina vaccines safe to healthcare. Workers at an alaska has developed concerning reactions. Just minutes after receiving pfizer's cororavirus vaccine this week. One was back to normal within an hour. The other was hospitalized and is set to be released today. The hospital said both workers did not want their experiences to have a negative impact on others. Lining up for the vaccine officials emphasize the requirement that recipients remain in place for fifteen minutes after getting the vaccine protocol which ensured that the women were quickly treated a physician named kevin fam- rights. I for one eagerly await the chance to immunize myself to both protect myself and to prevent myself from being able to contract and transmit the virus any further. He explains that the speed at which the vaccines were developed was attained by cutting the slack while maintaining rigorous safety precautions and he notes that in a vaccine group of twenty one thousand people. There were only four adverse events related to the virus of which were transient since both vaccines use. 'em are innate technology which has never been used in vaccines before some wonder if they should trust them. The cdc explains that this technology has been studied for decades the vaccines utilizing it do not inject viral material rather they give instructions for ourselves to make a harmless piece of what is called a spike protein. The spike protein is found in the surface of the virus that causes covid. Nineteen when ourselves received the vaccine. They make this protein then removed. The m are any instructions our immune system recognizes that. This bike protein is foreign to us and builds a response that produces antibodies. Then if we are exposed to the covid nineteen virus. We have antibody protection against it. Four cases of bell's palsy have occurred among thirty eight thousand vaccine trial participants however. This is half the typical incident rate of bell's palsy in the general population leading researchers to conclude that these occurrences were not related to the vaccine. The us surgeon general stated this week the vaccine does not cause autism. A video circulating on social media wrongly claims that some covid nineteen vaccines include microchips. That allow the government to track patients in reality. Some syringes could contain optional chips to show when the vaccine does is expired or counterfeit but the optional chip would be on the syringe label and would not be injected into the person nor would it allow those receiving the vaccine to be tracked in any way who can take the vaccine safely in response to my earlier article on the vaccine. A reader noted that she has a family member with a severe inability to detoxify and wondered. The vaccine would be safe for her. She also noted the question of persons with autism. Again i am not offering medical advice and encourage you to consult your physician as you make such decisions however on the website version of this daily article. I can point you to a medical guide regarding those who can take the vaccine safely. It notes that the vaccine has not been tested on those who are pregnant or lactating it points to the cdc's extensive guidance regarding those with allergies and notes that the pfizer vaccine is not yet authorized for anyone below the age of sixteen since studies with his age. Group are not complete. I would add that. The autism society is urging the autism community to be vaccinated as distribution becomes possible. Will we be required to take a vaccine. A radio interviewer asked me yesterday. If i thought we would be required to a covid nineteen vaccine when one becomes available to us. My answer is that we do not yet know. If the government employers or businesses will impose such mandates and civilians employees and customers. However i agree with three evangelical ethicists who right from a moral point of view. It is important that individual conscience not be violated. Individuals may have personal reasons for temporary or indefinite refusal. Perhaps a person might wish to see better long-term evidence for example or might delay vaccination so that more vulnerable members of the population receive. At first they add if mandates are widely issued legal cases in defense of conscious rights will almost certainly find their way through the courts. I'm confident that we will return to this topic many times over the coming months for today. Let's close with paul's prayer from philippians. One nine three eleven that your love may abound more and more with knowledge and all discernment. So that you approve. What is excellent. And so be pure. And blameless for the day of christ filled with the fruit of righteousness that comes through. Jesus christ let's pray for knowledge and all discernment every day to the glory of god. Would you consider sharing this podcast with a friend family member or co worker in order to help build a community of culture changing christians for listening to the daily article podcast today.

emmanuel macron pfizer roman government pfizer medina kevin fam moderna autism cdc bell alaska autism society us paul
It's Spring Break. Should We Be Traveling?

Radio Boston

22:06 min | 3 months ago

It's Spring Break. Should We Be Traveling?

"I'm picturing it just picture. It warm sand under your feet. Transparent sees laughing at your ankles may be a beachside cabana under the greenlees of a palm tree some kind of frozen pina colada in hand or if you're our executive producer hashem mango drink. He reminded me earlier today. It all sounds so good. It is spring break season and after a year of socially distant pandemic travel is on the minds of a lot of folks. The numbers bear it out the boston herald reports the cape vacation. Rentals are hard to come by for the summer and this past weekend more than one hundred thousand people flew through the region's airports the highest number of travelers yet this year but we have to keep in mind. As more people get vaccinated daily we've still seen cases plateau and then climb for the last twelve days now in a row in this. Pandemic with a test positivity rate of two percent for the last week so so much tension there with all that in mind. How should we be thinking about traveling. What is safe travel. Look like where can you go. How do you do it safely. What questions do you have about taking to the roads. The rails the air the spring and summer were ready. Eight hundred four two three eight two five five. That's one eight hundred four to three talk. Let's take your questions so we have to guides medical guide and a travel guide to have this conversation with us. Our medical guide is dr natasha. Hockberg associate professor in the department of medicine at boston. University school of medicine in the department of epidemiology at the boston university school of public health. She is also the program director for the infectious disease fellowship program and here's the important one also co director of the travel clinic. An infectious disease physician at boston medical center. Lots of expertise there. Also joining us is christopher mueller. Who is travel writer and the columnist for the boston globe. I want to welcome you. Both dr hockberg welcome. Thanks so much for having me. Christopher welcome thanks so much pleasure be here so excited to learn from both of you excited to take listener calls on this christopher. I'm going to start with you We are seeing more air travel travel across the nation. We just heard some numbers for here in new england are more people traveling now. How many more and where are they going Well i i have to say. I'm still picturing myself with a tropical drink after you're right hard time focusing right now on the area area But yes people are traveling far more than they were I mean obviously last year at this time and altered the spring and summer of last year the tsa screening pretty regularly more than a million travelers day. Which you know a few months ago would be unheard of and as you mentioned it is spring break and so you have deeply who were going to florida in families going there and then you have people who are just frustrated I feel like we all are and are hopping on a plane and going to see family members. There they're going to amusement parks Which is you know. It's surprising to me But yeah it's it's people are taking to the road. There's most most of the travel as ben domestic and dr hockberg may have thoughts on this as well but most of it has been domestic and to the caribbean which are kind of the easiest places that Us citizens can travel to right now so listeners. Are you making travel plans like are you booking something right now. Are you thinking about it. Is it for spring or summer. Are you waiting until you're vaccinated. You have questions about that. where are you going. And what steps are you taking that. You normally wouldn't take to be safe. Eight hundred four two three eight two five five. That's one eight hundred four to three talk now. Dr hochberg. i'm gonna turn to you. I am mindful that when we have this kind of conversation. It's tricky because we want to deal with the reality of where people are. We also want to deal with our public health realities. We're in stage for the state's reopening the state's travel form lower risk states. Map is no longer in effect. Is it safe to start traveling. So that's a great question. And i have to tell you that in the land of public health. I have a boss and Nationally that's rachelle walinsky the cdc. And so. i think when we think about about telling people and giving them advice. I want people to i turn to the cdc. And i want you to take a look at what the cdc guidelines are and what dr will ski is saying and she has clearly laid out that now is unfortunately not the time to travel. And believe me. I to wanna get out of here. I think we're all going stir crazy. I have kids at home. We all want to get to the beach. But dr will. Nc has i made it very clear that cases are high. Now is not the time to travel at increases your chances of spreading and getting cova d- And that you know. Hopefully we get more information as things go along but right now the recommendation is really unfortunately not travel. I know what you wanted to hear. But but that's all right. I mean this is why we have you both on right. We run a look at what people are doing. And what the guidances on what we should be doing so we do have some calls starting to come in but dr hockberg. I'm sorry i'm going to stay with you for a second longer. does that include. Don't get near your vaccinated you. You can't get in your car and drive. Let's say two hours to over the new hampshire line to see your grandkids. So that's two separate questions and the first question is Vaccines and what what. What is the impact of getting vaccinated. And how should that change your decision making and the second is sort of. How safe is it. To drive into drive locally. So i'll take the driving. I i think that has much lower risk if you are traveling with in a car with people who are sort of pod or your family and if you are traveling to see people that you're going to see outside and are socially distanced from So i think or you're wearing a mask and you're staying far away from. I think if you want to be inside with somebody without wearing a mask that's where the vaccines are particularly important. Especially when you're thinking about vulnerable patients and vulnerable people so if you're potentially going to see somebody who has an underlying co morbidity or their Older age and potentially at risk for getting really sick with this. You don't want to be potentially exposing that person so that's somebody you want to see outside at a distance but then your second question came to vaccines and i think that's a great point. So we have to recognize that you know fewer than ten percent or so of the population vaccinated at this point so it's not a large proportion of people. But what does it mean. Well the reason that the cdc and the nih are still saying that even if you're vaccinated they don't want you to travel is because even though we know it prevents severe disease. They're still that potential for you to become infected and transmit it to somebody else so even though you're protected you might still transmit it to somebody else. I'll say that there's a lot more data that are coming out about that in terms of You know how effective the vaccines are for preventing you from transmitting it to somebody else. But at this point the cdc stay still feels like the date are insufficient to tell you that you can safely travel not transmit it to somebody else. Thanks for that. So i'm going to go to the phones. I think we've got a call that you'll be able to help with christopher eight hundred four two three eight two five five. Is the number to call with your travel related question. We've got mike on the line. In hopkinton mike go ahead. Hi guys I drive a limousine part time. And i wonder when all the commercial travelers are going to start coming back. We are seeing more travel. But it's all private travel every single person who's going to visit their grandmother And no companies are going to at their customers is never going to change or what's going to happen. Thanks for that question. Might christopher so. Mike's question about business travel by the bread and butter. The travel industry at least a part of it. What do we think yeah. I think it's going be a while If ever that we go back to business travel as we knew it As i like to say the before times We've all become so accustomed to Being on zoom and facetime and even the phone and talking to our colleagues around the world in that manner. It's no longer a novelty as it was before and companies now realize that you know. Look at the bottom line. How much money. They're saving obviously. Not all companies are going to take that approach because in some industries are still feeling that face to face. Meetings are the way to go. But you know for instance. I think about The boston globe and were still not going into our office. Let alone traveling anywhere. And that's going to be likely through the fall. So i think you know maybe Maybe next year maybe the following year. But i don't see business. Travel resuming anywhere to twenty nine hundred levels anywhere in the near future. Let's go back to the phones here. Eight hundred four two three eight two five five here on radio boston where we are talking about travel and we have both a travel expert and a medical expert available for your questions. Robin on the line and fort point robin. Go ahead hi. I'm going to be traveling to the cape this summer. Like i do. Every year actually in did last year during the pandemic. I'm expecting to still have the same level of Cogan protocols in place regardless of how many people are vaccinated. And i. I guess i didn't know i supposed to be asking the question but i you know if i see people i i. I haven't been out since. I was in the cape block number so highly looking forward to a meal outside but i think it's crazy to be going into restaurants so you people i'm sure you're gonna back me up on that. So so let's actually turn to both of our guests robin. Thanks for our call. Your call dr hockberg. So i mean it's interesting as we as we've started to look forward we haven't always picked up on the conversation threads that have been here for a while at restaurants are one of them. Where are we on the safety of restaurant dining right now so first of all. I'm so excited for you that you get to the cape because it does sound like all. The houses are filling up so that sounds like it's going to be a wonderful summer break. I think it's a really tough question right. We're all getting sick of sort of cooking ourselves and not being able to go out to restaurants. I think that the safest thing you can do is to eat outside and to eat sort of distanced from other people. They're still definitely a risk of sort of taking off your mask inside with a group of strangers and And potentially becoming infected indoors. So i think your safest bet is to eat outside and to eat Distance if you have to eat inside you know. Hopefully you're vaccinated by that point and your risk is lower. So i'm going to put out a throw to listeners and then i'm gonna come to you christopher but listeners as i'm listening to all this i'm still back on the beach from the beginning of this conversation in my head and i'm not going there anytime soon. So where listeners. Are you wishing you were going. Where are you longing to travel will be wistful with you. One eight hundred four two three eight two five. That's one eight hundred four to three talk. So christopher i am struck by the fact that tourism on the cape for the summer looks like it's going to be happening. Are you surprised by that. What are the lessons that we take from that. Talk about that a little bit. I am actually not surprised at all. the cape last. Summer last minute bookings were kind of through the roof at that point and anecdotally. I've heard this from many people the agency where my parents book the house that they stay at in maine They told my dad that they've never seen anything. Like it. Once coming up this summer and you know as you've said we all want to get out. We all want to be doing things. I think the summer in new england you know. I travelled a bit last summer and speaking to indoor dining during the summer we have an opportunity for outdoor dining which makes the appeal of of going out and traveling so much better for those of us who aren't eating inside jet and also the idea of doing things outside you know at the beach if it's a beautiful day i'm going hiking going biking all of these. Things were really embraced last summer as end in addition to rv rentals which were also through the roof. So i'm not surprised to hear that and you know i'm actually also kind of glad that people are thinking of staying locally at least those who are reserving because as dr hot bird said You know i feel like why range traveling is more of an opportunity to spread Variance to generally just spread cove. It Two different areas as much as we all really want to travel to other parts of the country and other parts of the world to. I think we've got a caller question. That's related to that. Eight hundred four two three eight two five. We've got brandon on the line brandon. Are you in your car. I am totally in my car. Right now what you question brandon so you kinda unique situation. I guess kinda hopeful thinking Me and my wife five year anniversary coming up. We both survived covid Our three children survived kovin. Were all doing well. Grandparents are in our bubble if they want be so nice and allow us to go away for a weekend. Celebrate our wedding anniversary. Say you know beginning of june that a good time or just a bad idea in general. And let me just ask you. Brandon is if you don't mind sharing is anybody vaccinated the grandparents for example Yes they both received their first. It'll be vaccinated by beginning of june when we wanna go away. Thanks brandon and by the way happy anniversary and. I'm glad everyone survived. I'm i'm gonna turn over to dr hawkberg here to pick this one up. Sure first of all congratulations on the anniversary. And i'm so sorry that you were all sick. And i'm glad that everybody is doing okay. So some of this not to pry into your medical history but some of this depends a little bit on when you were infected and understanding the durability of the immune response and sort of how long you'd be protected for and so You know it it. It depends a little bit on that And so i think it's something to sort of Without getting into the details with you here but it's something to talk to your doctor about in terms of when in fact you were infected. How early on in the pandemic and then whether or not using vaccinated After having had cova because all of that will will play a role. But i think all right just a sort of. It's great that no. It's great that the grandparents are vaccinated and in general. I think we've seen the cdc recommendations that once those individuals are vaccinated. They can be in the house You know with other Vaccine individuals are unvaccinated. That are at lower. I wanna ask the two of you a question kind of follow up to this so when okay. So we're hearing from christopher everything is booking we're hearing from you dr hockberg. Yes but don't go any of those places please. Because your boss at the cdc says it's not time to do that yet. There is a lag in planning travel so from a medical standpoint. I dr hockberg and then christopher from a strategy standpoint second how far out could people be planning travel now. Is it reasonable to be planning something for august up from a public health standpoint. Dr hochberg heard or are you talking. God forbid twenty twenty two. I think that we're going to see more guidance. Actually pretty soon from the cdc. They've been sort of hinting at. They'll come out with travel guidance particularly for people that are vaccinated because there is some level of assurance that you know you are protected from severe disease and so i think more and more vaccinated people are gonna feel safer about traveling. And i think that. Cdc is going to come around to sort of provide that guidance. And i'm hoping it comes out pretty soon. I can't tell you when exactly that will happen. And so You know. I think making travel plans for the summer may be reasonable. And let's hope that cdc can support that shortly all right from a strategy standpoint christopher it sounds like one when can't wait everything's going to fill up so are we in a real rock and a hard place now for those who are really trying to follow the public health guidelines or. Can you do some planning for late summer at this stage. It's it's so it's such an interesting question because it to me. It feels like it's a constant moving target you mentioned at the beginning of the segment. How numbers had been going down plateauing and now going up again and you know back win. Vaccinations were really starting to pick up number. And we had plateaued and felt like we were going to be going down. I thought this is it. I start looking. You know seriously at summer travel and now That doesn't necessarily seem to be the case and europe. Seems like it's off the table and will be for awhile so that's that's the tricky part and some of it involves I feel like what your aversion to risk is. You know. it's a very personal decision. How people treat this You know there is the cdc guidelines in there are a lot of people who follow that and there are a lot of people who don't follow that and so one of the things that we've been seeing is yes places have been booking out ahead of time before summer but there's also been an extreme amount of last minute travel decisions if you look at studies over the past few months Normally people plan out travel far in advance lately. Not doing that. They're just kind of jumping. On and i think we'll see a fair amount of that and so again the idea of will we be able to travel this summer. I wished they were an easy answer. a straightforward. Yes not a problem at all or absolutely not think about it but it just comes down to so many pieces of the puzzle and for me. I'm waiting for a majority of the pieces to fit. And then i'll really seriously start thinking about it. Also when unvaccinated. I can also start thinking about it a little more again. It's a very highly personal decision. Yeah just to echo that. It's funny because if you've talked to my colleagues he'll get. Some people are absolutely planning their travel and some people are like nope if anything i'll drive to the cape and others are getting airplanes because they're vaccinated and so i think it's really true. It's somewhat of a personal decision. How one interprets. The data and assessing the risk. So in our last minute or so dr hockberg. We weren't able to go to anymore calls but we several people call with a scenario of vaccinated grandparents. Who wanna see grandkids. Can they go do that. So just once more with feeling you are vaccinated grandparents. Can you go somewhere far to see your grandkids so it depends on your assessment of the risk. The vaccines are quite effective at preventing severe disease. They're not perfect. So you still have some risk And then it depends on who you're traveling to see so if there's anybody in the household who you're going to see who's potentially at higher risk because of some medical condition then you're potentially placing them at risk by exposing them that being said you. You are relatively protected against severe disease. And so i think there are steps that one can take if you are going to travel to sort of protect yourself and wearing masks and sort of distancing from other people to the degree possible good hand hygiene and not touching your face leaving your mask on. When you're on the airplane so there are steps that you can take To sort of you know ensure on sort of the best outcomes right. Thank you for that. And that we're going to have to end that was doctrine natasha hockberg program director for the infectious disease fellowship program and a co director of the travel clinic At an an infectious disease physician boss medical center. Christopher mu thir- travel writer and columnist for the boston globe. Thanks so much to both of you appreciate it. Thanks so much thank you.

dr hockberg cdc christopher Dr hochberg dr natasha Hockberg department of medicine University school of medicine department of epidemiology infectious disease fellowship christopher mueller ben domestic rachelle walinsky The boston globe boston university school of pu boston medical center boston herald brandon new england
How Kim Janey Is Meeting The Moment As Boston's New Mayor

Radio Boston

47:54 min | 3 months ago

How Kim Janey Is Meeting The Moment As Boston's New Mayor

"This is radio boston. i'm john deering. Kim janey. She is the woman the week here in boston yesterday. She was sworn in as the city's fifty fifth mayor. She is the city's first black mayor and first woman mayor well. She joined us earlier today to talk about her agenda. I want to start by congratulating you on making history in the city of boston. How many times have you heard a congratulations for that. This week i'll countless. And i'm just so grateful. My heart is is full of gratitude. Does it has it. Has that sort of newness of that worn off yet or are you still feeling it every single time you hear it. Oh i still feel it. I am still so grateful. It is still so surreal Just to think that you know here. I am sitting here as the first black mayor and the first woman mayor of our city something. I wasn't sure i'd ever see so. It's an incredible moment. I'm not just for me personally. But for our city and i just super proud of how far we have come as a city you know you just referred to it. As an incredible moment it is and watching the whirlwind for over the last few days it strikes me. The stakes are high. Here what you see as your calling to meet this moment that you've been handed. How how do you meet that moment. Well the first thing that i would say is that my lived. Experiences is very different from the man. The men who came before me and i will bring that unique perspective to this work Definitely a focus on racial equity and ensuring that We have an agenda to recover reopen and renew our commitment to all bus donations Much of that focus in the beginning of the recovery part of the agenda is certainly i to ensure that the vaccine is getting out to residents. We have more work to do on that front especially as it relates to a vulnerable populations and communities that are hardest. Hit and definitely. Wanna make sure everyone who wants the vaccine has access to the vaccine has confidence in the vaccine so that we can safely reopen our businesses to their full capacity. Get people back to work especially the workers who were laid off and displayed at the beginning of the pandemic and getting our children back in schools with their teachers and their peers. So sorry to interrupt. I want to pick up on the vaccine portion. You talked about getting it out to the residents that there are more steps to take. What's an essential first step to take to be faster and more effective getting it out to the residents of boston. Well having good partnership relationship with our partners at the state's working with governor baker in his administration around just distribution Certainly community and local partners here have been very helpful particularly where there are trusted relationships. One of the things that i am extremely proud of our the mobile vaccination clinics. I will be visiting another one tomorrow. Had the opportunity to visit the same site a few weeks ago at the Mlk towers in roxbury. And i think meeting residents where they are and not always expecting Folks to come to mass vaccination sites Is is a good strategy. You know making sure we're lifting up other places where there are trusted. Relationships like with our churches and community centers is really important and this finance. I'm when i asked you about what you need to do to meet this moment. Your answer was very on the ground. It was very practical. Is that revealing. Is the sweet spot for you as you are breaking ground breaking history in the practical day to day. Is that how you see it. Well i think it is as a practical day to day but also the the big Everything i think in my life up until now has prepared me for this moment to meet this moment i think many folks across our nation have been You know electing women. Electing women of color we see Black mayors black women mayors in cities all across the nation. And i think there is A unique perspective. Obviously that we bring to this work and a lot of that is The day to day A lot of that is the focus on racial equity And understanding how important. This moment is not just in the city of boston but in our country to do things differently for me. It is very clear that we cannot go back to the way things used to be. That normal Was the wealth gap in boston. That is a quarter of a million dollars that normal as displacement In terms of people being forced to move out of our city that normal is an opportunity and achievement gap that persist in our schools. So my focus is to make sure that we are going better. We're not going back going better to a much more equitable city. I'm more just city in a more vibrant city and all of us have a role to play in that. So i i am not trying to trick you with this next question because i. I understand that you're not ready. Have been very clear in your interviews over the last few days that you are not ready to discuss a run for mayor for the election in november. I am mindful however that the the things you just laid out our systemic issues and that is acting mayor you serve for the next nine months. So how do you think about that balance. And how do you think about the steps that you take in your first fifty days your first one hundred days in this period of your mayoral oral see. If that's a word that moves the ball down the field on these pigs. Systemic issues like wealth inequality. Yeah yeah you're absolutely right. These issues did not appear overnight. These are structural issues Deeply rooted and structural racism and discriminatory practices over a number of years decades centuries in the making and will obviously take more than nine months to to Recover from these and make sure that we do get to the more equitable just city for all of us to enjoy. And so i. I will be making a decision in the near future around future plans and will certainly share that with you at the appropriate time. Let's go back to the three rs that you talked about when you were sworn in. And you mentioned him here to recovery reopening and renewal. I wanna i wanna plug into renewal. What do you envision in your mind what do you what do you see in our city when you see renewal while one. I i want to just acknowledged that there is a good foundation Already here in our city in terms of The things that we need in place I want us to renew our commitment to to the residents of boston around housing and climate change around public transit around improving our schools addressing police reform in our city but part of this agenda for renewing also means that we create space not only to bring people in new voices then people who may have felt left out of power in the past that we also create space for joy. What i've been calling a joy agenda. This past year has been so incredibly difficult for all of us. Covert nineteen has impacted. Everyone and so. We have to make sure that we are coming back together as we're reopen and recover from this pandemic that we reconnect with each other that we rebuild with each other in terms of relationship and that we take time to to celebrate The things that make boston so wonderful. Great world class where championship city. There's a lot to be proud of in our city and we need to ensure that the prosperity that is in boston is shared And that we are doing everything that we can to just rebuild that faith when it comes to Shared prosperity and boston. And the commitment that people have for our city and i'm encouraged because so many people care about our city you know and it's a business leaders. It's our faith leaders. It's our community leaders. It's every day residence It's the wonderful employees Who make the city strong And so i'm encouraged by the work. That is already underway. But i wanna make sure that we are intentional about creating this space to reconnect with each other so that we can have that more vibrant city and it goes beyond what many people think when we think about our city and in downtown and and all the places here in the center of our city it has to spread out through our neighborhoods. You know the neighborhoods are what makes make boston so special. I certainly to me. I want to take you back to a particular moment earlier this week before you were even sworn in you went to the edwards middle school in town. You talked openly about being a part of busing in the early seventies. You've talked openly about a different lived experience than the white male mirrors that came before you take us to the moment when you put your foot over the threshold of the door of the edwards middle school as mayor and what went through your mind. Wow it was just an incredible day. My first full day as mayor and the very first thing. Data's mayor i. I obviously wanted to visit a school Given my background. I you know i come from a family of educators as spent much of my career in education advocacy. So i knew. I wanted to visit a school but i thought it was particularly important to visit the edwards Because you know my experience there. was very painful and traumatic. What all of the students who who lived through that era and our city's history and they were very dark days And so to be able to go back as mayor Into visit that school and to see our young people In the classroom engaged and then learning. I visited one classroom in particular with they were learning about desegregation and then to be able to share with them My story and then to stand there as the first black mayor for our city and the first woman mayor for our city was just a really a powerful moment. I think for the young people in the classroom and so just incredible. And i think Really of how far we have come as a city and so it was particularly special because of that it it. It was a signal of the progress that we have made as a city that being said we obviously have a lot more work to do And boston and i'm excited to do that. Work in partnership whether it be our our superintendent around our schools Working with the police department Working with Business leaders or key stakeholders. I'm excited to do this. Work in partnership with the folks who love boston as much as i do. The you are in a moment of goodwill and and recognition What is the most important obstacle to get out of your way in the city towards progress or it was. What is one thing that a part of the boston community needs to do to make it. Possible to cure your vision forward while i hope that people are willing to not only Have the tough conversations When it comes to some of these structural issues and challenges in in our city But be willing to do the work. And i'm encouraged that. In fact will happen. There is certainly A lot of folks who care deeply about boston Who are working hard every single day. Not just the employees that work for the city but key stakeholders in our community. And i want to make sure that there is room at the table for everyone who wants to do this work. Boston mayor tim janey on. What's really day three. Thank you for joining us. I hope you'll come back for regular conversations with us absolutely absolutely. I appreciate the opportunity. Thank you so much. The boston bruins return to action tonight in the td garden and for the first time in more than a year there will be fans in the stands. Meanwhile there was a lot of buzz around age in the boston. Celtics possibly making a move at the trade deadline with just past but twenty minutes ago. So listen i matters not happy with that so i want folks to know that trade deadline matters if we want to chris. You and i've talked about fall in love with and get behind the celtics this spring. So obviously. Chris sitter a cure to check the score. Hey there chris ziana so do you wanna start bruins or do you wanna start celtics. There's a lot here. Yeah there is a lot here. I'm wearing the black and gold. So let's start with the bees. This has been a two year crusade. Now as many folks remember me trying to bring you onboard. The bruins fan band wagon here. And i've decided it's time to recruit some help right so we're going to bring on l. Wvu r.'s morning edition senior newsreader. Sarah's brenner who will be in the garden tonight for the b.'s. Game hey sarah's doing alright. Sarah rose all right you too take it away because you you know the bruins like i don't yet although this ringer chris saw sarah set the stage for us a little bit before we get into the team. This is obviously. It's been more than a year since fans have been in the garden. What is that gonna look like tonight. What what's the garden putting in place here. Well honestly it might look a little fast. It's twelve percent capacity for fans. It's about twenty two hundred people and they're going to be very spread out. you know. i talked to amy. Lima gotten president and she said that it's just unbelievable to see all of the space around the groups of people so the groups. You can only stay with no more than three people in groups of four and they all have six feet around them and you can't gather in the concourses and then they have the other pandemic safety measures that we've seen we've become accustomed to like fans are being asked to wear face. Masks and ashes actually have yellow cod. So if they see if they are not wearing a mask they're going to give them a yellow cac and yes what are we doing. It's like soccer. You get two yellow cards. You make get kicked out. The guy penalty shots now they. It's just straight out and then you're suspended for game kit so this is a team that has had a bit of a bumpy week. Due to covid where we add in terms of players back is everybody back. We still have a couple on the covid list. Yes there are a couple on the list. there were five total players in the protocol. They were all woods. Three coming back. David passing outdated creech ian craig smith. They'll all be on the ice. But jacob risk and john crawley is still out and then also the bruins have a fan number of injuries and most of the injured players are not coming back like britney kalo who has skating but he's been out since match fifth because of a really dirty hit in the capitals in the they've struggled with injuries especially defensively I'm hearing to garage could be back in net tonight are you. Are you hearing that. And how big a return with upi. Yes go ask is expected to stat for the first time since early match. He's back in the fans of back and it just feels like his myth that they're bull coming back at the same time you know. He's been out with an undisclosed injury and is only one win. Shy of his three hundred. Th career win. So how cool would it be if you got that milestone tonight where we go so i was going to be obviously a ton of energy in the building tonight. I'm sure fans itching to get back into the building and cheer the team on. I'm curious what you make of this team. Tc on talked about the fact that they've struggled to score at times. Do you think they can be contenders. We'll their td don't want anyone love this team. I mean i think they have the best first line hockey. So i'm navigating account at team out. They have a great goalie tandem with raskin yaro polack. Can't really i mean they're going to be contenders. Look their fourth in the east right now. They're only ten points out of first place and they've played few games like up to four games and other teens in that group so they definitely have a chance. And if you're counting the bruins out urine say all right so i want to ask the two of you before we let you go. Sarah rose just put it in perspective especially for people who maybe have never been to a bruins game. How big of a deal is it to have fans in the stands tonight. It is massive the energy in the guidon. It's like nothing i've ever been around it just like buzzes and the players. They noticed it on the ice. You know like not having fans has really negatively impacted the game so they're also really looking forward to this. Yeah i mean that place gets so loud especially for bruins fan. And i have no doubt. Even though there's only twelve percent capacity the players are going to hear him and this team. I think that really could use the boost over the last twelve there five five and two and it really has felt like davis kind of missing a little bit of that heart a little bit of that enthusiasm over the last few weeks. Obviously the week off doesn't help that either. So hopefully fans in the building can give them a little bit of a jolt and help make this run down the stretch well. Wb are sarah's brenner. We're going to let you go because you gotta head down. There have a great time for us. Woundings goes so chris. Now we gotta move to the celtics and you've said they've been lacking heart all year. The tread line that trade deadline was today at three pm. We were kind of waiting all day to see what was going to happen. What we were even going to be talking about here on the show. So here's my little dream role on my desk at home what happened. I'm going to reiterate womp all right so they did make deal. This is to put this in perspective a little bit danny age. The gm with the celtics hasn't made a trade deadline deal since twenty fifteen. It's been six years since they've made a move in season like this to try to help give that team just a little bit of extra to put them over the edge They did trade to second round picks. Evan forty-eight they had been targeting. Aaron gordon that deal ended up falling through gourds going to denver They were looking for kind of a big man who could shoot an play defense. Evan forty as a guard who can score. I don't know who this guy is ready basketball fan. So what does it mean to take this guy. So he is a score he can put up about twenty points a game which is not nothing but it also. Does it really address what this team needs right now this team. We've talked about the culture right that they aren't able to close games that they go all the way back to last summer when they They almost lost it. Toronto after being ahead in that series and then Ended up getting knocked out by miami They really continue to get themselves. A big holes just like they did last night against milwaukee bucks and the bucks are a good team right there. One of the best they are but the celtics should also be one of the best. They have two of the best young players in the league and they end up going down. Twenty five points to the box and it looked like it was just this lack of energy and passion and heart on the floor that kinda digs this whole and then they claw their way back they do. All this work they get into and they had a shot to win it. At the buzzer snow timeouts smart again inbound septum. This side ties for box. Hang on almost blowing. Eight twenty. five point lead thais paddock. Great lauck he knew it couldn't hit. We need things to be excited and happy about as we're trying to crawl our way out of the pandemic that sounds like it hurt. Yeah and you could hear it in the the players after the game Thais after he missed that shot really just leans his head back and screams to the heavens in frustration. I got to play a little bit of kemba walker to who was phenomenal last night. Drove this comeback and brought them to within striking distance but here he is talking about the loss. After the game of the loss but effort energy defensively was the most important thing we got stopped rain. I help this more. Obviously we just didn't laterally early on in the game. I mean you could hear it in his voice he just sounds defeated all right so chris. I want to kind of help spell this out for the listeners. This is a team that got this twenty five points down. That's bad then. They came really close to winning. That's good but then in the very last second with right we used to say about the bruins. Dunk off off the. What's it gonna take for that saga for this team. Wal- to change. And this is why. I don't really think they did enough at the deadline. Because i think they really have to change the culture and shake up the locker room basketball. We always talk about so much about chemistry. And how these guys work with each other and as a unit right and not just their individual towns because they have more than enough talent to be competitive but if you look at how they finish games especially there were four shots last night in the last seventy seconds where they're down to and a chance to win this game. None of those four shots were taken by their two best players. So that's a huge problem. You want your best guys shooting with the game on the line. And i have to point out. Also marcus smart. We talked so much about him. Being the heart of the team and playing this tough knows defense but he is one of those guys that maybe shoots. When he shouldn't going into last night's game came across the stat just really staggering in fourth quarters. In overtimes he was eleven for his last forty eight which shooting twenty three percent terrible shooting percentage and had missed one any one threes in a row in the fourth quarter and overtime which is just not going to get it done that way and again. I think the major problem is whatever is going on. With this team's chemistry. Your best players need to be taking over down the stretch and it's just not happening so whatever they have to do to shake it up and kind of wake these guys up they gotta do it and they gotta do it fast. All right now have new motivational poster. From chris citric quo. You want your best player shooting when the game is on the line. We'll that's why. I'm here behind the mic. Right let's go that's right. That's right all right now. We have to take on a very sobering subject because sports penetrates all our lives in some way or another. And it's how we shape our young people off it often and we have a disturbing story for the massachusetts sports world that involves reports of antisemitic language from the duxbury high school football team. Chris i just want you to give our listeners. A rundown of the latest on that story. Yeah so folks have been following the story. The duxbury high school football team has had their game on friday night against him. Cancelled and freshman and jv games have been canceled this weekend. After reports of players using antisemitic playcalls field surface. This week So badly they're using phrases like rabbi dribble and auschwitz to call audibles on the field David hammer on the head. Coach was fired on wednesday and also placed on administrative leave as a special education teacher And actually massachusetts state senator kerry feingold. Who's himself jewish and also played high school and college football so kind of understand that culture has actually reached out to the team to offer to help educate the players on on anti semitism and he actually spoke about that work on bbc tv. Wbz tv earlier this week when someone says. I don't think these young people understand harmful and hurtful that is the people that are jewish. I understand that he sees this as an opportunity to create a an engagement and learning moment for the kids. We would certainly hope that happens. And then what happens for the for the team for the rest of the season. Yeah i mean that's a good question where you will see. The district has said basically. There'll be a decision about the rest of the season. Adam later date. But i think what makes the story so painful. Is you know high school. Sports is supposed to be a place where these young student athletes are learning about themselves in their place in the world and how to navigate the world and we expect coaches to be their mentor to guide them through that. And when you have a coach setting the absolute wrong kind of tone like this. I think that is what makes it so troubling all right well on that note radio. Boston's chris sitter chris. Thanks for checking the score with us this week. Always great to be with you. I'm picturing just picture it warm sand under your feet. Transparent sees lapping at your ankles may be a beachside caban under the greenlees of a palm tree some kind of frozen pina colada in hand or if you're our executive producer tash mango drink. It's he reminded me earlier today. It all sounds so good. It is spring break season and after a year of socially distant pandemic travel is on the minds of a lot of folks. The numbers bear out the boston herald reports the cape vacation. Rentals are hard to come by for the summer and this past weekend more than one hundred thousand people flew through the region's airports the highest number of travelers yet this year but we have to keep in mind. As more people get vaccinated daily we've still seen cases plateau and then climb for the last twelve days now in a row in this. Pandemic with a test positivity rate of two percent for the last week so much tension there with all that in mind. How should we be thinking about traveling. What is safe travel. Look like where can you go. How do you do it safely. What questions do you have about taking to the roads. The rails the air the spring summer were ready. Eight hundred four two three eight five five eight hundred four to three talk. Let's take your questions so we have to guides a medical guide and travel guide to have this conversation with us. Our medical guide is dr natasha. Howard associate professor in the department of medicine at boston. University school of medicine in the department of epidemiology at the boston university school of public health. She is also the program director for the infectious disease fellowship program and here's the important one also co director of the travel clinic and an infectious disease physician at boston medical center. Lots of expertise there also. Joining us is christopher mu third. Who is the travel writer and columnist for the boston globe. I want to welcome you. Both dr hockberg welcome. Thanks so much for having me. Christopher welcome thanks so much pleasure be here so excited to learn from both of you excited to take listener calls on this christopher. I'm going to start with you. We are seeing more air travel travel across the nation. We just heard some numbers for here in new england are more people traveling now. How many more and where are they going. Well i i have to say. I'm still picturing myself with a tropical drink after you're right hard time focusing right now on area area but yes people are traveling Far more than they were I mean obviously last year at this time and altered the spring and summer of last year. The tsa is now screening pretty regularly more than a million travelers a day which you know a few months ago would be unheard of and as you mentioned it is spring break and so you have people were going to florida in families going there and then you have people who are just frustrated I feel like we all are and Hopping on a plane and going to see family members. There they're going to amusement parks Which is you know is surprising to me But yeah it's it's people are taking to the road. There's most most of the travel has been domestic. And dr hockberg have thoughts on this as well but most of it has been domestic and to the caribbean which are kind of the easiest places that Us citizens can travel to right now so listeners. Are you making travel plans like are you booking something right now or are you thinking about it. Is it for spring or summer. Are you waiting until you're vaccinated. You have questions about that. where are you going. And what steps are you taking that. You normally wouldn't take to be safe. Eight hundred four two three eight two five five. That's eight hundred four to three talk now. Dr hockberg i'm gonna turn to you. I am mindful that when we have this kind of conversation. It's tricky because we want to deal with the reality of where people are. We also want to deal with our public health realities. We are in stage. For the state's reopening the state's travel form and lower risk states. Map is no longer in effect. Is it safe to start traveling. So that's a great question. And i have to tell you that. In the land of public health i have a boss and nationally. That's rachelle wolinsky at the cdc. And so i think when we think about telling people and giving them advice i want people to i turn to the cdc. And i want you to take a look at what the cdc guidelines are. What dr will end ski is saying and she has clearly laid out. That now is unfortunately not the time to travel and believe me i to want to get out of here. I think we're all going. Stir crazy i. Have you know kids at home. We all want to get to the beach. But dr will. Nc has made it very clear that cases are high. Now is not the time to travel. It increases your chances of spreading and getting co vid- And that you know. Hopefully we get more information as things go along but right now. The recommendation is really unfortunately not to travel. I know that's not what she wanted to hear. But but that's all right. I mean this is why we have you both on right. We run a look at what people are doing. And what the guidances on what we should be doing so but we we do have some call starting to come in but dr hochberg. I'm sorry i'm gonna stay with you for a second longer. Does that include. Don't get near your vaccinated you. You can't get in your car and drive. Let's say two hours to over the new hampshire line to see your grandkids. So that's two separate questions in the first question is Vaccines and what what. What is the impact of getting vaccinated. And how should that change your decision making and the second is sort of. How safe is it. To drive into drive locally. So i'll take. I'll take the driving. I i think that has much lower risk if you are traveling with in a car with people who are within your sort of pod or your family and if you are traveling to see people that you're going to see outside and are socially distanced from So i think or you're wearing a mask and you're staying far away from. I think if you want to be inside with somebody without wearing a mask that's where the vaccines are particularly important. Especially when you're thinking about vulnerable patients and vulnerable people so if you're potentially going to see somebody who has an underlying co morbidity or their of older age and potentially at risk for getting really sick with this you don't want to be potentially exposing that person and so that's somebody you want to see outside at a distance but then your second question came to vaccines and i think that's a great point so we have to recognize that you know fewer than ten percent or so of the population is vaccinated at this point. So it's not a large proportion of people. What does it mean. Well the reason that the cdc and the nih are still saying that even if you're vaccinated they don't want you to travel is because even though we know it prevents severe disease. They're still that potential for you to become infected and transmit it to somebody else so even though you're protected you might still transmit it to somebody else. I'll say that there's a lot more data that are coming out about that in terms of You know how effective the vaccines are for preventing you from transmitting it to somebody else. But at this point the cd stay still feels like the data are insufficient to tell you that you can safely travel and not transmit it to somebody else. Thanks for that. So i'm gonna go to the phones. I think we've got a call that you'll be able to help with christopher eight hundred four two three eight two five five. Is the number to call with your travel related question. We've got mic on the line. In hopkinton mike go ahead. Hi guys I drive limousine part time. And i wonder when all the commercial travelers are going to start coming back. We are seeing more travel. But it's all private travel every single person who's going to visit their grandmother And no companies are going to their customers Is that going to change or what's going to happen. Thanks for that question mike. Christopher so mice question about business travel You know the bread and butter the travel industry at least a part of it. What do we think yeah. I think it's going to be a while If ever bat we go back to business travel as we knew it As i like to say and the before times we've all become so accustomed to being on zoom and facetime and even the phone and talking to our colleagues around the world in that manner. It's no longer a novelty as it was before and companies now realize that you know. Look at the bottom line how much money they're saving. Obviously not all companies are going to take that approach because in some industries there still the feeling that face to face meetings are the way to go. But you know for instance. I think about The boston globe and were still not going into our office. Let alone traveling anywhere. And that's going to be likely through the fall. So i think you know maybe Maybe next year maybe the following year. But i don't see business. Travel resuming anywhere to twenty nine thousand nine levels anywhere in the near future. Let's go back to the phones here. Eight hundred four two three eight two five five here radio boston where we are talking about travel. We have both a travel expert and a medical expert available for your questions. Robbins on the line and four point. Robin go ahead. hi. I'm going to be traveling to the cape this summer. Like i do. Every year actually did last year during the pandemic. I'm expecting to still have the same level of Kogo protocols in place regardless of how many people are vaccinated. And i'm guessing i didn't know i suppose the question but i you know if i see people i i haven't been out since i was in the cape blossom summer so i'm highly looking forward to emil upside but i think it's crazy to be going into restaurants so You people. I'm sure going back me up on that. So let's actually turn to both of our guest robin. Thanks for our call. Your call dr hockberg. So i mean it's it's interesting as we as we've started to look forward. We haven't always picked up on the conversation threads that have been here for awhile. Restaurants are one of them. Where are we on the safety of restaurant dining right now so first of all. I'm so excited for you that you get to go to the cape because it does sound like all. The houses are filling up. So that sounds like it's going to be a wonderful summer break I think it's a really tough question right. We're all getting sick of you. Know sort of cooking ourselves and not being able to go out to restaurants. I think that the safest thing you can do is to eat outside and to eat sort of distanced from people. There's still definitely a risk of sort of taking off your mask inside with a group of strangers and a potentially becoming infected indoors. So i think your safest bet is to eat outside and to eat Distance if you have to eat inside you know. Hopefully you're vaccinated by that point and your risk is lower. So i'm going to put out a throw to listeners in that i'm gonna come to you christopher but as i'm listening to all this i'm still back on the beach from the beginning of this conversation on my head and i'm not going there any time soon. So where listeners. Are you wishing you were going. Where you longing to travel will be wistful with you. One eight hundred four two three eight two five five. That's one eight hundred four to three talk so christopher i am struck by the fact that tourism for the summer looks like it's going to be happening. Are you surprised by that. What are the lessons that we take from that. Talk about that a little bit. I am actually not surprised at all. the cape last summer last minute bookings were kind of through the roof at that point and anecdotally i've heard this from many people The agency where my parents book the house that they stay at in maine They told my dad that they've never seen anything like it was coming up the summer. And you know as you've said we all want to get out. We all want to be doing things. I think the summer in new england you know. I travelled a bit last summer and speaking to indoor dining during the summer we have an opportunity for out door dining which makes the appeal of of going out and traveling so much better for those of us who aren't eating inside jet and also the idea of doing things outside at the beach if it's a beautiful day i'm going hiking going biking all of these. Things were really embraced last summer as a put end in addition to rv rentals which were also through the roof. So i'm not surprised to hear that and you. I'm actually also kind of glad that people are thinking of staying locally at least those who are reserving because as dr hochberg said You know i feel like wide range. Traveling is more of an opportunity to spread Variance to generally just spread covid Two different areas as much as we all really want to travel to other parts of the country and other parts of the world to. I think we've got a caller question. That's related to that. Eight hundred four two three eight two five five. We've got brandon on the line brandon. Are you in your car. I am totally in my car. Right now your question brandon. Sure so you kinda unique situation. I guess kinda hopeful thinking Me and my wife five year anniversary coming up. We both survived cova Our three children survived cova. Were all doing well. Grandparents are in our bubble if they want to be so nice and allow us to go away for a weekend to celebrate our wedding anniversary. Say you know beginning. June that a good time or just a bad idea in general. And let me just ask you. Brandon is if you don't mind sharing is anybody vaccinated the grandparents for example Yes they both received their first. It'll be fully vaccinated by beginning of june when we wanna go away. Thanks brendan by the way happy anniversary. And i'm glad everyone survived. I'm gonna. I'm gonna turn over to dr hockberg here to pick this one up. Sure first of all it yet. Congratulations on the anniversary. And i'm so sorry that you were all sick. I'm glad that everybody is doing okay. So some of this Not to pry into your medical history but some of this depends a little bit on when you were infected and understanding the durability of the immune response and sort of how long we know you'd be protected for and so You know it depends a little bit on that And so i think it's something to sort of You know without getting into the details with you here. But it's something to talk to your doctor about in terms of when in fact you were infected Early on in the pandemic and then whether or not you've been vaccinated After having head cova because all of that will will play a role. But i think it's just a great that they know it's great that the grandparents are vaccinated and in general. I think we've seen the cdc recommendations that once those individuals are vaccinated. They can be in the house With other Vaccine individuals are unvaccinated. That are at lower. Ask the two of you a question kind of in. Follow up to this so when okay. So we're hearing from christopher everything is booking we're hearing from you dr hockberg. Yes but don't go any of those places please. Because your boss at the cdc says it's not time to do that yet. There is a lag in planning travel so from a medical standpoint. I dr hochberg and then christopher from a strategy standpoint second how far out could people be planning travel now. Is it reasonable to be planning something for august up from a public health standpoint. Dr hawk burger or are you talking. God forbid twenty twenty two. I think that we're going to see more guidance. Actually pretty soon from the cdc. They've been sort of hinting. They'll come out with travel guidance particularly for people that are vaccinated because there is some level of assurance that you know you are protected from severe disease And so i think more and more vaccinated people are going to feel safer about traveling. I think that. Cd is going to come around to provide that guidance. And i'm hoping it comes out pretty soon. I can't tell you when exactly that will happen. And so I think making travel plans for the summer. May be reasonable and let's hope that. Cdc can support that shortly all right from a strategy standpoint christopher it sounds like one one can't wait like everything's gonna fill up so are we in a real rock and a hard place now for those who are really trying to follow the public health guidelines or. Can you do some planning for late summer at this stage. It's it's so it's such an interesting question because it to me. It feels like it's a constant moving target you mentioned at the beginning of the segment. How numbers had been going down plateauing and now going up again and you know back win. Vaccinations were really starting to pick up in number and we had plateaued felt like we were going to be going down. I thought you this is it. I can start looking. You know seriously at summer travel and now That doesn't seem to be the case and europe. Seems like it's off the table and will be for a while. So that's that's the tricky part and some of it involves i feel like what your aversion to risk is. You know. it's a very personal decision. How people treat this You know there is the cdc guidelines and there are a lot of people who follow that and there are a lot of people who don't follow that and so one of the things that we've been seeing is yes places have been booking out ahead of time before summer but there's also been an extreme amount of last minute travel decisions if you look at studies over the past few months You know normally people plan out travel far in advance lately. They're not doing that. They're just kind of jumping on. And i think we'll see a fair amount of that and so again the idea of will we be able to travel this summer. I wished they were an easy answer. a straightforward. Yes not a problem at all or absolutely not think about it but it just comes down to so many pieces of the puzzle and for me. I'm waiting for a majority of the pieces to fit. And then i'll really seriously start thinking about it also when vaccinated. I can also start thinking about it a little more but again. It's a very highly personal decision. Yeah i just wanted to echo that it's funny because if you talked to my colleagues he'll get some people are absolutely planning their travel and some people are like nope if anything i'll drive to the cape and others are getting on airplanes because they're vaccinated and so i think it's really true. It's somewhat of a personal decision. How one interprets. The data and assesses the risk so in our last minute or so dr hockberg. We weren't able to go to any more calls but we had several people call with a scenario of vaccinated grandparents who wanna see grandkids. Can they go do that. So just once more with feeling you are vaccinated grandparents. Can you go somewhere far to see your grandkids so it depends on your assessment of the risk. The vaccines are quite effective at preventing severe disease. They're not perfect. So you still have some risk And then it depends on who you're traveling to see if there's anybody in the household who you're going to see who's potentially at high risk because of some medical condition then you're potentially placing them at risk by exposing them. That being said You you are relatively protected against severe disease. And so i think there are steps that one can take if you are going to travel to sort of protect yourself and obviously wearing masks and sort of distancing from other people to the degree possible good hand hygiene and not touching your face leaving your mask on. When you're on the airplane so there are steps that you can take To sort of you know ensure sort of the best outcomes all right. Thank you for that and at that. We're going to have to end. That was dr natasha hall program director for the infectious disease fellowship program and a co director of the travel clinic At at an infectious disease physician at boston medical center. Christopher mu thir- travel writer and columnist for the boston globe. Thanks so much to both of you appreciate it. Thanks so much. Thank you all right folks. That is our show for today radio. Boston is a production of ninety point. Nine w. b. u. r. boston's npr news station. Tomorrow's friday so turn in tune in for a week in review. I'm donna deering.

boston bruins edwards middle school celtics Sarah rose dr hockberg Evan forty duxbury high school john deering Kim janey governor baker Mlk towers cdc chris tim janey Chris sitter chris ziana brenner sarah
TechStuff Classic: Pacemakers Got the Beat

TechStuff

38:54 min | 10 months ago

TechStuff Classic: Pacemakers Got the Beat

"If you need business communications, US on edge they've got unified communications, contracts, centers, and Communication Api's the will make your life complete communication. Wise. But that's it. Von Inches. Great at all those. They're not great at extremely entertaining yet informative podcasts that make you feel smarter and more inspired but you know what? That's okay. They don't need to be the best at absolutely everything. They're fine with just being the absolute best at business communications vantage. Now, we're talking Xfinity X. by is more than just fast. It offers up a personalized WIFI experience and gives you incredible control over it. You can use the x Fi APP in order to control that Wifi oposite at a moment's notice in addition, you get Wifi with coverage all over your home with x Fi pods and built insecurity to protect all your connected devices from threats you can learn more at Xfinity, dot, com, slash, X. Fi. Welcome to textile production from iheartradio. Here and welcome to tech stuff I'm your host Jonathan Strickland I'm an executive producer with iheartradio and I love all things tech and it is time once again, my friends for a classic episode and this one published on October ninth two, thousand, Thirteen, it is titled Pacemakers Got The beat. This just reminds me of how much work I put into making really really cringing titles back in the day I still do it occasionally but man, I was really on a roll in two thousand thirteen. Let's listen in to this classic episode. What do you mean electrical impulses? That's how the heart works. There's crazy. There we we. We have natural pacemakers and sometimes they they work less well than others. But so yes. So pacemakers are small devices that are implanted nearish the heart and the general. Just area heavy shoulder abdomen somewhere around there, they use low-energy electrical impulses to help control any abnormal heart rhythms. Sometimes called Ramirez with me, thank you with me as a child I wanted to you. Arrhythmia and Heart Murmur round. That's exciting. The bad way Saudi. Arrhythmias. So those can be that your heart is beating either too fast to slow or irregularly, and there are more long words for all of those things. Right? There's there's a tech Cardia. Braida Cardio yes. So those are the two Sabrina Cardi as if it's beating too slowly and tech a cardiac is when it's too quickly share, there's also other conditions that can. That can wrap up into Needing Pacemaker Aka each real fibrillation in which the upper chambers of the heart kind of quiver instead of really contracting. Yes. So in order for you to really understand what we're talking about here, the hardest divided up into four chambers, right? Right. The left and right atrial, which are the upper chambers and the left and right ventricles which are the lower chamber. So the upper chamber chambers, the Adria, the when they when they contract, they force blood down into the ventricles which then when they can try to force it throughout the rest of the body right and so the combination of these two contractions are what we think of the heartbeat the whole love dub dub. The love Adria area and the DUB, the ventricles. So you know that there's just plenty room for romance. But so if one of these is is not working out correctly then it screws up. Problem Right. So if you the trio are doing this fibrillation where they are quivering instead of beating, then it's not providing the the right amount of blood to the ventricles to pump it through the rest of the body. That's obviously an issue. But. There's another one too right. There's also heart block in which the electrical signal is slow to disrupted as it moves through the heart. So again, problem with actually the signal reaching the place where it needs to go so that you have a healthy heartbeat. Cover on your wire is a little bit screwy and Gotcha something something to that extent except the wires your heart and you need that wire badly. Yeah. It's it's unless you're will ten man you pretty much need one and the. Can Be, caused by all kinds of disease and other wacky nece. It could be inherited condition. Can Be after a heart attack if if a heart attack damage the muscle, right? Yeah. Their injuries that can end up injuring the hard as a as a result. Yes. There's lots of different ways. This could happen including things like just coming out of a surgery that's unrelated to your heart. Sure. Absolutely. Okay. So so what happens when your heart lacks them? You can no longer do really crazy dances like the electric slide. Okay. True. Enough. However, it mostly means that your body might not be getting enough blood which would cause a tiredness light headedness breathlessness even like fainting organ damage and can potentially even lead to death of it goes. On check. Yeah. Yeah. So we're we're talking about very serious stuff. Now, a healthy adult has a heart rate at rest. That's what between sixty, one, hundred beats per minute something like that the APP Yep. So a minds on the high end, which is actually not great means that honestly the Jonathan needs to exercise more so that I have a healthier cardio life and that's something that I am working on because. It's a concern, right? I'm getting I'm getting to a certain age of physically if not mentally or emotionally. So I need to prepare for that. Generally slower heartbeat within that range is ideal and healthy heart heartbeats our regular because we have like I said earlier those built in pacemakers those are the signal are trail I said that right? True at the upper right Atrial. Okay. Gotcha. So yeah. So This is kind of a signal that Let's the Atrium to to contract. So once that signal goes through to contract the area what happens then like how is it then move onto the ventricle? Some it passes through another nude, the atrial ventricular node. Yeah. Okay. Cool. So you got two nodes that are doing this and they're doing it in a very precise rhythm so that it creates this contraction. Then pumps the blood through the rest of the body right and if that atrial note isn't working properly that ventricular node can take over for it but it's a it's a weaker force. So it's efficient. It's not as efficient. It's only going to get you up to about forty beats per minute, which is why you're going to encounter that fatigue and breathless. So, you'll you'll you'll live but you'll be getting the Poor condition share right So what DO PACEMAKERS DO PACEMAKERS? Can can regulate that they can help us slow them of a too fast heartbeat or help control and irregular too fast rhythm. Okay to slow rhythm. So, they can monitor the the impulses and override it or or pulses I. Guess should say an override it so that it has a more regular heartbeat and keep someone at an optimal heartbeat range right share, and if those if there's two nodes are not communicating properly a peacemaker can help coordinate the electrical signals between them. I see. So if maybe the Sinoe arch atrial notes working just fine but perhaps the ventricular ones then this could help balance that balance that out right sure and it does this because. Okay. So a pacemaker is essentially a very small generator hooked up to a battery and a computer again, very small battery and very small computer you have to be implanted implant share. And wires are threaded from the pacemaker through a vein to the heart those wires being tipped with electrodes. And the electrodes detect your heart's electrical activity and rhythm, and then send that information to the computer which will monitor them. And then it will direct the generator to fire whenever the signals go go ongky. All right. So what the computer is doing is looking for any irregularities. Is that right? Okay, right. It can also record these signals for your doctor to upload and used to adjust your pacemaker using wireless device. They don't have to do surgery on you. Because, they want to check it about quarterly. So that would be messy. So this is kind of like a a very important version of physical activity tracker. It's keeping data on activity of your heart and let your doctor know exactly what's going on right right in in some cases that onboard computer can even be accessed remotely via the interwebs Oh so For those of you, our privacy. Worried about that kind of thing, the idea that your heart rate is being monitored remotely. Maybe for you I actually think I actually think it's super awesome like the idea that that a doctor would have that level of granular information about a patient's health and and even be able to preemptively tell the patient. Hey, I'm detecting some unusual readings here. Could you come in so that we can make sure that you are in good shape the shape that it's not an equipment malfunction and obviously incredibly important and if Very. There's some some people have pace makers who are who? Doing okay, it's more precautionary and but there are other very life threatening ventricular diseases. Sure. Sure. Yeah. Some models collaborate response models will actually adjust to your heart rate to your changes in activity Gotcha. which again makes sense for. Example like if you're exerting yourself, then you might need a different heart rate than if you were at rest and that's why I remember older pacemakers that was a real challenge because they would. They would keep very steady heart rate which was great. But break into a brisk jog. Your heart wouldn't be able to to keep up the computer would start misfiring. So that was a real issue, Cher, Cher so there are three basic types of pacemakers you've got single-chamber which carry impulses from the generator to the hearts right ventricle dual chamber, which carry those impulses to the right ventricle and the right atrium. And also helped coordinate the timing between the two. Then you've got by ventricular which which carry those impulses to the right atrium and both ventricles Gotcha helping coordinate all of the signals and the those are for as you can imagine, those those are increasing and seriousness, right? Right obviously because you're talking about having to take over more and more of the hearts activity there are also related implantable, Cardio. Verte cardioversion, right? Yes. implantable cardiovascular defibrillators. Use Not only those low in energy impulses that are regular pacemaker would use, but also hiring high energy impulses when necessary to treat very life threatening. So, like if you're for example there I'll I'll talk about some of the early ones of this. But there are some devices that let's say that detects that your heart maybe going into cardiac arrest, it can actually deliver a strong enough electrical impulse to possibly kickstart your heart going again right. So it ends up being like a you know if you guys have ever seen any medical procedural, you have obviously seen the person with. Which? Incorrectly took Kanye the clear parts important by the way. Yes but. Now he's doing poorly from too much electric This is something that sort of an implantable device that does a similar thing although it does it in a very precise way because it's delivering directly to the heart. And and and not every pacemaker does this race. Devices. Yeah They can also Jonathan said earlier be temporary if you've just had if you've just had a heart attack or surgery or perhaps overdosed while while the patient is in the hospital with these kinds of. They might have a temporary pacemaker. And of course, the permanent ones, which is more what we've been talking about i. mean they wouldn't implant temporary one, right? Yeah. In fact, the earliest pacemakers are more like what you would see with a temporary pacemaker far the temporary ones that we use now are far more sophisticated. Orders of magnitude more sophisticated. But the idea is that you would have an external device that would be able you know anyone could monitor and also. Be Able to a medical professional would be able to disconnect at once that was a viable option and wires would go into you. which is kind of. You know depending upon your level of comfort a little squeaky but I'm honestly pretty squeaked out by the entire wire through a vein thing. We'll just wait till we talk about the history of pacemakers because it's going to get really interesting I'm glad he took that research. So in the case of permanent. Pacemakers. Batteries and generators usually have to be replaced. Every am five to fifteen years usually about six or seven. It's really the the batteries start running down and they figure while we're performing surgery on you we might as well change out the generator to make sure that it doesn't start running down right right. So actually decreases the number of surgeries you would need to. Go over your lifetime, right sure. Yeah. The lifetime of the product a year lifetime. and. The wires eventually need to be replaced as well. But that's that's more case to case basis. Right thing. Now, we talked about in our electronics, an FAA episode about electromagnetic interference and even discussed a little bit about how people with pacemakers need to be careful around devices that emit Emi, which is pretty much anything that's electrical array right and that's because like any electrical signal, the impulses sent by pacemaker can be disrupted by an electromagnetic field. Yeah. So no granted in most cases, the the instructions you get are pretty. Common sense stuff like don't don't lay down and put a laptop computer or a cell phone or for your heart. Yeah. You don't WanNa I. Don't. WanNa. Have like your cell phone in your shirt pocket for example, right? Right. You know avoid brushing up next to strong appliances. Industrial welders don't lay directly against the microwave as you wait for that sweet sweet pup corn to be delivered to your hands keep keep your generators your larger than your heart generator generator at arm's length don't use jackhammers. I never do. And everyone. Thanks me. So. I mean things like metal detectors are fine if they're you know. It's you're supposed to tell security agents like, Hey, I've got this pacemaker thing. Please kill me right round and they will know how to deal with that. Yeah. So it's it's certainly one of those things that does mean you know you have to take out in your lifestyle. Sure. But it's also a development that has like we said given. A huge number of people a chance at a healthy life that otherwise they not have. Hey Guys Jonathan Twenty twenty we're going to take a break on this episode about pacemakers to thank our sponsors, but we'll be right back Von has everything you could ever want in life as long as what you want in life. Our unified communications that all your texts emails and voice calls onto one platform context centers that integrates seamlessly with salesforce and API's that help developers build communications into their APPS. But. That's it. Those are the things that Vaughn is great at. They're not great at baking delicious cakes or doing sweet backflips or making extremely entertaining yet informative podcasts that make you feel smarter and more inspired none of those are really their thing but you know what? That's okay. They don't need to be the best at absolutely everything they're fine with. Being the absolute best at Business Communications Von. Now we're talking with Home Depot decorating. Your home is now easier than ever before start by heading to homedepot dot com where you can shop everything for every room browse thousands of furniture pieces and decorative accents to fit any style, explore bedding and bath linens, kitchenware, and small appliances. Prices whether you're going for a brand new look, a seasonal refresh or simply a few finishing touches. The Home Depot has all of the pieces you need and the best part shop today, and you'll get free and flexible delivery with easy returns plus for a limited time, you can save even more on the styles you love when you use code tech stuff ten at checkout find exactly what you're looking for and more at homedepot dot com slash decor valid on select items online only free delivery on select items, forty five dollars or more visit homedepot dot com for more information. Now let's get back to talking about pacemakers now. In this particular episode, we kind of divided up the the research a bit. So Lauren ended up looking a lot at heather artworks in Hell Pacemakers to work if you guys have ever listened to for thinking you know that I am the medical correspondent. We make her look at all the squeaky stuff. So we don't have to because She likes squeaky stuff like although. I would I'm is really great guys. Although I would I would argue glancing through your notes here for the history that you actually got the short end of the state you know what? This doesn't. Use the phrase quick stick. This is a this is entering into a realm that I actually relish I because we're talking about realm of scientific exploration that definitely goes on that mad scientists side of the scale in that really cool kind of Victorian era. This is the same era where we saw things like Mary Shelley's Frankenstein published, and so that's an and some of the stuff that was being talked about and discovered at. This time plays into the narrative of that story although in a much more kind of literary way and not a scientific way share. But at any rate, this is when we had people really thinking about electricity and its effect on the human body and not just the human body as it turns out. So you really to talk about the history of the pacemaker have to go all the way back to the mid seventeen hundreds. That's when people started to experiment with what they called electrostimulation using electricity to stimulate muscles, and in fact, by this time they were looking at cardiac electrostimulation. So again, using electricity to stimulate the heart, this was animals the time. Yeah. So they would find recently dead animals or they would make an animal recently dead and then they would use some form of electricity to. Use Electricity source to stimulate the animals heart allegedly sources at the time they had. They had laden jars and take piles right appeals actually you should save ot at peels it's actually named Person Okay so peel is French, but we'll take peels or piles if you prefer both of which were were I mean our batteries, they are viable batteries but very dangerous. Yeah. Not particularly strong unless you make huge stacks, right? Right. So these are predecessors to what we consider the modern battery but that was when there was experimentation going on. So he would use them to stimulate the cardiac nerves and animals in an attempt to resuscitate intact dead animals and thus as my notes say. The world with Chipmunk zombies was. So, there was a fella named Luigi Galvani. who was credited with proposing electricity as the mechanism that causes our muscles to operate. Now, here's the story. This is very possibly Apocryphal, but the story the legend go goes that Gal Vanni was working on on dissecting a little froggy. Okay and ended up building up an electrostatic charge and picked up a scalpel and touch the scalpel to the froggy and discharged the electrostatic charge which created the spark and made the Saudis leg twitch thus. Gal Vanni began to think of electricity as being the means through which our muscles operate. He called it animal electricity as opposed to what was being called heat electricity. Okay. So he's he thought that animal electrcity was some sort of electricity trickle type of fluid that would make muscles move before. Then it was this idea of leaning Laden jars were still based on the principle that electricity was a fluid. Yeah, yeah. So we this is obviously this is the early days of of learning about electricity. So. At any rate that? That research lead other people to start to tinker around. One of those was William Hawes H. W. E. S. he established a society Lennon called the humane society, but it's not the humane society. The way we would think of it in the United States, you hear the humane society anything that's an animal rescue. Adopting dogs and cats do this was a a group that was dedicated to? Well salvaging people who appear to be dead. This was a big concern at the time a lot of people you know we didn't really have the more precise scientific definitions and even today this debatable of what is alive and what is dead and we we didn't have heart rate monitors. It was a morbid time. Really. So it was it was a lot harder to tell, and so there was a huge fear of getting buried alive. Yeah. So there was also a similar society at the time in puree. Peres. I assume Paris France in Paris. Texas. Eventually, the organization would become the Royal Humane Society of London and very early on during the society's days. I just began to explore electrostimulation as a way of resuscitate people who appear to have died and maybe who are not actually dead, but she revived. So seventeen eighty, eight, a guy named Charles Kite writes. A paper titled An Essay upon the recovery of the apparently dead, which is already my favorite title of a of a paper sense Since Moore wrote cramming more components on integrated circuits I love, I love I love these titles there this the best kind of research early. So according to the essay, Kite used electrostimulation to treat a three year old child. She had fallen out of a window and appeared to be dead. They had called in an apothecary who was unable to do anything. Kite said that it was twenty minutes before he could arrive to provide some sort of electrostimulation to the child's heart he used. His he used essentially electrodes to to deliver a gentle electrical shock to various parts of the child's body eventually settling on the thorax chest really to the and found that she he got a pulse when he did that and claim that the child woke up was very groggy and and. Confused about her surroundings but that she eventually made a full recovery whether that tells me is that this story is probably either exaggerated or there are some big missing components because being dead for twenty minutes is being is dead. Yeah. You're not. You're not bouncing back from that really don't know. But any rate, it could be that that no one the house at the time could find a heartbea. Right could have been that she had a very weak pulse share intermit- pulse even. So at any rate that's the story from seventeen, eighty, eight and seventeen, ninety, six, a couple of Danish scientists published a paper that was titled Life Saving Measures for Drowning Persons and information of the best means by which they can be brought back to life, and that also included electricity mutation of the heart as a means of saving people. We're going to jump ahead. So a lot of people researching this and eighteen, twenty Dr de Sanctis in the medical guide described the reanimation share I. didn't show you a picture. This yet have long did not. Ready concerned. You're going to get a chance to see. Lincoln un-socialist well, that share included a bellows which were meant to force air into the person's lungs a metallic tube inserted into the person's sophists and of Altaic Peel or Pyo depending upon how you want to pronounce it attached at one end of the metal tube and the other end was to an electrode. The electrode was then touched to quote regions of the heart of the diaphragm and a stomach quote to cause muscles to contract. If you look at this thing or illustrations of this thing I should say I've seen a picture of wow. No one was ever actually built but the illustrations of what it was supposed to look like look like it came from hostile or saw those movies is absolutely terrifying to behold. It makes a dentist chair look absolutely comforting by by comparison it's Jonathan within twenty twenty. Again, we're GONNA. Take another quick break from this classic episode, but we will return shortly. Support for tech stuff is brought to you by Manscaping who is the best in men's below the belt grooming manscaping offers, precision engineered tools for your family jewels they obsess over their technology developments to provide you the best tools for your grooming experience and let's face it. It is a tough time right now and it's very easy for us to kind of let hygiene slip away but we shouldn't do that. It makes us feel better when we take care of ourselves, but you don't want to rush that sort of thing you definitely don't want to have any you know manscaping accidents. That's why manscaping has redesigned the electric trimmer, the manscaping engineering team spent. Eighteen months perfecting the greatest trimmer ever created and just released the new and improved lawnmower three point Oh. Yeah. They are geniuses at marketing over at manscaping. Their third generation trimmer features a cutting edge ceramic blade to reduce manscaping accidents. Thanks to manscaping advanced skin safe technology, and the battery will last up to ninety minutes on a charge. So you can take your time don't rush things if you are listening to me speak right now I want you to experience it firsthand for yourself get twenty percent off and free shipping with the code tech stuff at manscaping. Dot. com that's twenty percent off with free shipping at MANSCAPING DOT com and use the code stuff. I WanNa talk to you about Caserta by Lutron smart lighting control brought to you by Lutron pioneers in Smart Home Technology. A lot of people think you need smart bulbs to get smart lighting, but there's actually a smarter way. CASSANDRA's smart dimmers switches replace the switch in your wall making all the lights that switch controls act smart. This is incredible when I priced out how much it was going to cost to turn my living room into smart bulb haven well, it was astronomical but with Caserta all I had to do was change. Out One light switch the controlled those lights and now I get the benefit of smart bold technology through this switch not only that I can use the switch on the wall to control the lights, which is different from smart bulbs. If you turn that switch off that powers, the smart bulbs, they are no longer smart, they're no longer anything. So Caserta actually gives you more options. So get smart lighting the smart way with Caserta, by Lutron, smarts switches learn more about Caserta. At lutron dot com slash tech that's Lutron DOT com slash tech. Experiments with electro puncture. This is where we're really getting into the fun stuff. so that is that is combining electrical stimulation with acupuncture. Yep. So you gotta needle that you. INSERT, into the body of your your subject, and then you shoot electricity through it to stimulate patient. Yeah. Well, hopefully, animal. Is mostly animals share mostly dogs actually. Yeah I. Didn't want to dwell on that too much because I, love my doggies. Yeah. So anyway, turned out the early experience anyway turned out to be. I'll use the word failure. So no Franken doggies from this particular early experimentation. However, other people would start to experiment with using insulated needles that could deliver an electrical shock. Specific to a specific point, the point of the needle in fact, and that would infect be the basis for early pacemakers. They did discover that by refining this process that they could stimulate activity in a heart that was undergoing cardiac arrest, and again they were using animals. Then essentially in order to experiment, they would over anesthetize animals nor to induce cardiac arrest. So we would see more and more experiments between eighteen, twenty, eight and nineteen thirty, which is the next day I have on my my listen I want to be too exhausted with us, and also they get pretty weird and Yeah. When you start talking about getting cadavers from recent executions, it starts to get pretty grim. So I'm going to I'm going to skip over that. We skip over the entire Victorian era, we skip over Jack The ripper. Lewis missed in history class they cover all that kind of stuff. All right the nineteen thirty. That's when a fellow by the name. Of Albert S Hyman develops and patents the artificial pacemaker. Wow, in nineteen thirty. Yeah. So this thing did not look like a pacemaker as you and I would would recognize if we were to see one, which are which are large coin size. In, the grand scheme medical devices they are tiny. This one was not tiny. This was a hand crank who okay. So you had a hand crank and it had wires cables essentially the ended in needles that could be inserted into a person and by turning the hand crank there was also a spring motor inside of it that turned Magneto, which is a DC current generator. Essentially, what you're doing is you're turning. We've talked about inducing electricity to flow by using moving a conductor through a fluctuating may may field. This is a way of doing that. By hand you turn the crank churning through this magnetic field and that's inducing electricity to throw. To flow rather, and that ends up supplying the electricity needed for the pacemaker. The, insulate needle would deliver the electric charge to the right atrium of the heart and by March. First, nineteen thirty, two of the pacemaker had been used forty three times with a successful outcome in fourteen cases, which is about thirty three percent success rate, which sounds incredibly low, but then keep in mind that the essentially supposed to. Rest erroneous this was last last ditch effort to try and revive someone. So it wasn't like this what these were not the type of pacemakers we've talked about in our episode where we talked about the things that you would have in your in your chest for a prolonged period. This was really meant to revise somewhat. Yeah. Sure. So this is this is a little different. Thirty three percent of patients saved is actually better than zero percent pretty rats. So nineteen forties, that's when they started to engineers and doctors began to work on designing defibrillators, which as we said, can play a part in some types of pacemakers that you can find today that are it's kind of a combination device releaser nineteen, fifty-nine, an elderly man who in the literature is called H. N. They don't obviously identify people. Medical. but h n suffered heart ailments for several years had had heart attacks and other irregularities and became the recipient of traffic products nine. Oh, two M battery operated pacemaker. This was not an internal unit. It was not an implant in that sense it you. They did implant the electrodes so that they had contact with the heart but the cables to the actual device where external. And you would have to carry the the pacemaker around with you and it was held outside the body. You know it could also detect spontaneous cardiac activity had a meter yet essentially had the ability to tell if something was going wrong wasn't necessarily able to respond to that dynamically, but it could at least a warren a caregiver. Something was happening. everything was was. It worked all right the one problem was that the area where the the electro would go in through the skin. Essentially, the needle would go into the skin was prone to minor infections. There was never like that's what you would expect from the firm I mean, and that's part of the reason why the drive to create implantable right makers exists. We talked about the fact that in our piercing episode or our body modification episode, we talked about that. There is a a a possibility of to. Kind of infections and they may not be serious. It may not be life threatening, but they can be problematic and that was exactly what he had experienced. It wasn't an infection that was developing into sepsis. But it was like he would have to have the area cleaned regularly so that it could clear out any infection. In late nineteen, sixty, two underwent surgery for a pacemaker implant but he never fully recovered. In fact he never recovered from the surgical procedure. He died twenty days after the surgical procedure. So that was an unfortunate tragedy there but. He did have a live for several years with this external pacemaker. In Nineteen Sixty Dr Robert Rubio implanted a pacemaker into a female patient and that pacemaker was fifty two point, five millimetres diameter, which is about two inches. Seventeen point five millimeters thick, which is about point seven of just over half an inch and weighed sixty four point, three grams or two point, three ounces or less than a quarter of a pound. Now that one got power from two rechargeable nickel cadmium batteries. which were charged through induction from external flexible coil placed on the skin over the pacemaker. So this is the way some pacemakers are recharged today using a similar approach although that's usually radio frequencies. What we're we're talking about wireless power here right where you can induce this charging through Again. You're. It's all about magnetic fields. Electricity is really what we get down to. So you would have to place this flexible coil directly over your heart in order to recharge the pacemaker or really directly over the pacemaker wherever the pacemaker was located wherever the you know the battery was the stimulating electrode for this was a platinum disc. So it was an expensive piece of medical technology, but sadly, the patient died nine and a half months after the surgery because she did develop an infection which turned into sepsis. After the surgery so the pacemaker was working but the the it was a side effect of the surgery she fortunately perished from that. So, early implantable pacemakers varied widely in how long they could. Require recharge. So one of them would only go like eight hours and then you have to recharge it. That's pretty yeah. That's pretty of yeah. But there are others that could go weeks or even months before recharge even the early days in the sixties. This also, I mean still today how much how much your ear pacemaker is. Actually needing to to create a charge will make your battery life. Very right. So in other words in other words if if it's only occasionally having to intervene than you're recharging, may you may not need to recharge it as frequently someone where it's more active more frequently So. In the nineteen, sixty s when we started to see the cardiac stimulator defibrillators, which we kind of talked about it's under called something else today but same sort of idea the the device that can. Detect when a heart beat stops and then try to restart with a controlled electrical bursts to the heart. the early versions of that were also not implantable. They were external as well. But now we've got implantable ones that are incorporated with sort of pacemaker technology. Now as far as the future goes from the nineteen sixties onto the present it was really refining that process. It's. Miniaturization. In electrical stimulation up making sure that we were getting more precise and smaller, those are really the trend. So anything from nineteen sixties on, it's more about refining that that design. Told me about the future miniaturization is going to continue to be a factor. In fact, there are companies right now that are trying to create pacemakers. There are about the size of a pill so that tiny. So the reason why you want this is not just because it it it takes up less space in the patient. Really it's because the surgical procedures become less invasive. It's less damage to the body less chance for infection. Makes it less chance for something to go wrong because it's just it's just a smaller surgical procedure. So that's really where we're seeing the future come in as far as pacemakers are concerned. And that wraps up this classic episode of Tech Stuff. Hope you guys enjoyed it. If you have any suggestions for future topics that we should cover on the show, reach out on twitter or facebook the handle at both of those is tech stuff h. w., and I'll talk to you again really soon. Textile is an iheartradio production for more podcasts from iheartradio com visit the iheartradio APP apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. If you need business communications, US bondage edge, they've got unified communications, contracts, centers, and Communication Api's the will make your life complete communication. Wise. But that's Is Great at all those, they're not great at making extremely entertaining yet informative podcasts that make you feel smarter and more inspired but you know what? That's okay. They don't need to be the best at absolutely everything. They're fine with just being the absolute best at business communications von edge now we're talking.

Pacemakers right atrium Jonathan heart block United States right ventricle electrostimulation Communication Api Xfinity iheartradio Von Inches Sabrina Cardi Ramirez US Jonathan Strickland Hell Pacemakers Texas
Author Jeff VanderMeer

Bullseye with Jesse Thorn

36:23 min | 10 months ago

Author Jeff VanderMeer

"Bullseye with Jesse Thorn is a production of maximum fund dot org and is distributed by NPR. It's Bullseye I'm Jesse for Jeff. Vandermeer. Is a novelist and I think if I could sum up his works in a word, the word might be lush. His books are usually surreal sometimes scary. Often he transforms nature itself creating new species new histories need stations with visceral sometimes magical descriptions. If you know his work, you're probably most familiar with annihilation part science fiction part magic realism part horror it set in a wildlife refuge. In Northern Florida, an alien presence has landed as it settles into the land. It creates profound disturbing changes in the plants, animals and humans that enter the territory. He published the book in two, thousand, fourteen, four years later it was. Turned into the movie of the same name directed by Alex Garland and starring Natalie Portman and Gina Rodriguez. His latest book is called a peculiar peril like a lot of his work. It's fantastical and strange kind of absurd. It's also very funny fans of Neil Gaiman or Terry Patchett or even Douglas Adams will feel at home with it. Maybe that's you. Maybe that's a young reader. You know it's definitely book teenagers can read as well. Anyway my friend Jordan Morris was lucky enough to get to interview him. Jordan is a comedy screenwriter. He's also the CO host of one of my other podcasts Jordan Jesse go anyway let's get into Jordan Morrison and Jeff Vandermeer. Jeff Vandermeer welcome to Bullseye. Thanks for having me. So your new book, a peculiar peril is it's aimed at young readers although I'll say it's very entertaining to certain thirty, eight year olds It made me wonder what kinds of books you were reading when you're the age that this book is pitched at. While I was I would say I was reading things like James Thurbers, the thirteen clocks and I would say there are there other books like that are things I remember because they're things when you go back to them as adults you find other things to appreciate in them and so they kind of change over time and then also a lot of British classics which I can't even remember the Selah besides Beatrix. Beatrix Potter's may be younger than this audience but since since there are so many talking animals in peculiar parallel didn't think of that little bit but but I grew up in the Fiji islands and so until the age of nine I mostly had British Commonwealth books. So it's not so much necessarily always influenced by what I was reading a teenager although it is a little bit but also things like asterix intent in comics and kind of the absurd misadventures in some of the things I was reading. Then there's a scene in peculiar payroll where two characters braid their beards because of a magic spell, the beards keep growing and they can't cut the. That's actually a an Ota tinted, and then there's also things like the dark is rising as series which I thought was a really wonderful teen series that I read as a teenager. More recently, I've read stuff flake. Royal powers wilder girls in the white genre and really enjoy that. Actually this book while while I was reading it really reminded me of the hitchhiker's guide series and kind of its sense of humor was that ever something that you gobbled up as a kid. Oh. Absolutely. I would say that's definitely something that I i read as a teenager and end it is true that there is a particularly British sense of humor that I absorbed that I think comes out in this series and not just because the main character grew up in this world where he was hardly in Florida and partly in the UK Yeah. So definitely that definitely the kind of absurd sense of humor which is something that you know is present. In my other novels but not to this degree, you know it's it's present in annihilation in terms the biologists having a conversation about whether something's a tunnel or tower. If you think about it s very absurd conversation right but it's not it's not the primary thing but you're you're encountering when he read. So it was really kind of Nice to be able to show that side which to this point has mostly been displayed. I, think for whatever reason on twitter so. When you were kid was being a professional writer something you dreamed about or did it later? It was pretty early on when I was in Fiji. My mother was a biological illustrator. My Dad was a research chemist to a studying answers Beatles, and so we're very invested the natural world and I started keeping. bird-watching list as we were going around various places for my dad's research. And that eventually morphed into telling stories about birds. Because I began to get a little bored with just listing birds in my journal. And that coincided with encountering like aesop's fables in self-sided retail those and kind of that became kind of a learning process for me because I would read the story and then I would try to tell my own version from memory of the story. So that's how it began to learn how to how to write and it was mostly these these animal tales and I think that also is something that kind of comes through and peculiar payroll. I'm really curious about growing up in Fiji. Nature is a big part of your work and it got me wondering about the kind of flora and fauna you're experiencing when you were growing up there. Well. I mean my mother would they would be sea-turtles on our front lawn because she was doing illustrations of them. And we were literally ten minute walk from the beach in Suva, and we would go up into the mountains during the winter because it's volcanic island and you would have a totally different terrain with Kingfisher's in just a light missing of snow for like half a day. Which is kind of unexpected in that setting. I felt like I was outdoors all the time. And and it was a very wild experience and and a lot of my fiction reflects that reflects things like getting lost on a refit night when my dad was off doing something and an almost walking out to sea as opposed to back to shore. So there's a lot of experiences like that that I considered heaven for my writing. Your writing a nature is very beautiful, but it can also be very scary and deadly you mentioned getting lost. Do you remember any other times as a kid where you were scared of the natural world? Well. There was one time in Kenya where my dad decided. He wanted to get close to these water buffalo almost charged US I definitely. She had that'll do you scare that'll do. Not, so much as a child now as an adult I was once charged by a wild boar and that was that was pretty scary. At the same time once you're in the situation like that time kind of slows down you kind of take stock in a way that is actually having very fast but you don't realize it, and so it's weird. It's like realize afterwards, you were scared but you don't necessarily realize in the moment. And, a Lotta Times also, you know there's a difference in me in the protagonist. So the biologist pry is Lee scared of people in my books of Nature but then also some of the weirdest things happened in that book. So there's people who are scared for the biologist though she thinks what she's looking at is really beautiful. So I, find that this issue of scary versus non-scary is often something that that lies with the reader in not so much with me because it's very little that I find scary except for cockroaches, which is something that I encountered as a child. Because it was a gene cockroach that would burrow into your ear at night. So I would wake up to this punching. Sound how Terrible thing. To exactly and was a tropical paradise but I also had allergies from the flowering trees and also asthma. So there were days when I would wake up and I wasn't sure if I could be that I would hear this crunching sound. In my ears. So I do have a very big phobia of cockroaches. They were harmless. They weren't doing anything they just they were just seeking shelter but still so I try very hard to to not have those usual prejudices against creatures just because of stereotypes about them but it is true that an my wife deals with the roaches that come into the house. So after you lived in Fiji and I think I'm getting your timeline correct is that you moved to Florida where you still live now and a lot of your stories including a peculiar peril are there or at least part of it is set there told me a little bit about Florida and what makes it fun to write about? Well. First of all, we came back to Ethica for two years in the middle of winter after Fiji in that cured us of anything very northern. So Florida I think reminded us a Fiji Obit in the semi tropical even here in North Florida and I think one thing that's really amazing about this place is it is one of the hot spots of biodiversity. So even though we're ten minutes from the capital where in this house on the edge of a ravine that was scooped out during the last. Ice Age, and is all fully wooded because you can't build down on the slope only around the lip of it as we're ten minutes from the capital in. Yet down this ravine or raccoons, possums, box turtles all kinds of snakes and lizards, and so it's pretty amazing and this this is kind of what I've experienced the entire time I've been in Florida. And that definitely influences you know. While even like relationship between the inside and the outside kind of blurs a bit, and then also how you perceive the natural world and there's less separation between yourself and the rest of the world in that way, and I think that comes out and peculiar peril. I really wanted the talking animals some which have personalities of some of the some of the animals in our yard even though they're different animals to not be the stereotypical things that you sometimes see the just perpetuate ideas that are wrong about how animals might perceive things if they talked. And then also the thing I like to do as I do like to take real places that I've lived in an use them in my book. So Jonathan. Is Not really a spoiler, but you find out at some point that. He grew up on the edge of one of these ravines in Florida, and so I basically just took our house and used it for some of the scenes and that works out really nicely because it gives you a real kind of abused character with a bit of auto autobiography. In the special thanks to your book. Annihilation. You think the Saint Marks Florida Wildlife Refuge I wanted to hear a little bit more about that place what what it's like there and how it inspired the writing. Well you know we I lived in Gainesville Florida and pains Peres amazing there, and I was looking for a place when we moved up to move to Tallahassee, that was similar in the Saint Marks National Wildlife refuges just this amazing refuge on the edge of the sea. So it goes from this pine forest to black swamp to salt marshes to the beach and includes all these amazing ecosystems side by side that you would normally encounter in such a small space comparatively, and I think what also really was amazing to me is that the first time I was there I got lost. I decided I'm just going to bite off more than I can chew and I'll do the longest most remote trail here in. It's not usually the best idea and I did the fourteen mile trail not knowing that there was going to be a thunderstorm in the middle of it. And it got so totally turned around in las my map that I had no idea where it wasn't. It was one of those things where you know I don't carry a phone usually of except sometimes a little phone that I can call for emergencies, but but nothing that would have a map and so. For for a good thirty minutes I had this experience. A lot of don't really have any more which was I was totally lost and I had no idea where I was and I was in the middle of a thunderstorm and there were a ton of very aggressive gators around which usually doesn't bother me but it was like in the middle of mating season. And I'd also on this this one also this first time seen wild boy they hadn't charged me which kind of unnerved me because they are really the biggest threat out there. and. So I think that element of of the unknown being lost like that really fed into my imagination and I think it's one reason why? Annihilation is set there in wise. It's been so inspirational because that I experience was so dynamic. As a as a proud Floridian I was wondering if you were familiar with the Florida man. You know line of jokes. High Ham and I understand and I do find it humorous I try not to buy into it because my theory is just that. Every other state has just as many boneheaded individuals they just don't have the Hashtag. But it is also true that there are so many different Florida's. Literally politically socially in other ways and we have so many people coming in from out of state that changed the dynamic of how things are that I think that does come into play some degree and I cannot deny. It does it does sometimes it's hard for me sometimes to defend. The state. And one reason that I do is because we are still the wild place that is in danger from development whatnot of going away. And there is so much a value and so that in all seriousness is why don't really play into that because I feel like then people missed the other things that are great about state but but I I do admit that that there there there is a spark of something there that That I really wish was a little less visible. And also if there was a Hashtag Montana man. We might see some crazy stuff. Montana, nothing against Montana and. Move. there. We'll wrap up with Jeff Vandermeer in just a minute does he think a novel with a message can reach people will hear more about that after the break it's Bullseye for maximum fund. Dot. Org An. NPR. Guy Rise and on. NPR's how I built this how a simple splash of colour accidentally launched Sandy Chila witch into a forty year career as a designer entrepreneur and creator of the now famous Chile which place mat subscriber listen now. I'm bringing grant in e-readers, loves spoilers and chocolate and Mallory o'mara a print book collector who will murder you if you spoil book for me and we're the host of reading glasses, a podcast designed to help you read better over the past few years we've figured out why people read self-improvement escapism to distract ourselves from the world burning down and y they don't not enough time not knowing what to read and being overwhelmed by the number on their TV. And we're here to help you with that. We will help you conquer your TV are pile while probably adding a bunch of books to it reading glasses every week maximum dot org. Welcome back to Bullseye I'm Jesse Thorn Jeff Vandermeer is a novelist. He wrote the acclaimed book annihilation which was turned into a film of the same name. His newest book is a fantasy novel called a peculiar peril. It's a book geared for younger readers, but it's just as wild and fascinating as the rest of his body of work. Let's get back into his conversation with Jordan Morris. I'd love to hear about a peculiar peril I. Remember reading that you're kind of expanding on a pre existing world that you had created for an anthology series talk about the world that this is set in and what made you WanNa come back. Well, it was. Originally. A revisionist Victorian world with this kind of progressive Dr Dockery t lamb said. and. The first thing was supposed to be a little south publish Chap Book of Me and my friends writing some fake disease entries because I'm a big fan of using like non-fictional forms for fiction that can be a lot of fun. But before I knew it, our friends had told other people before i. knew it Neil Gaiman was asking if he could be in this anthology. And we had a three hundred page book. And that eventually found I a small publisher and then a large publisher and they were literally fake disease guide entries but everyone have been very ingenious in using the format so that they it didn't read like you were just reading a bunch of entries. There was a lot of like almost seemed building in a in much of it and it was just a lot of fun so. then. We would do readings. And we would have like a panel of people we had one with with Neil Gaiman with some other contributors were addressed in lab coats. And a that would be hilarious because like if you're doing that in a in a barnes and noble or something. People will be walking by weren't there for the reading and they would hear the details of something like Ballistic Oregon Syndrome. They wouldn't really wouldn't really know whether it was real or not. Themselves I. Hope I. Don't get that Jeez right? Exactly. What ballistic? And by the way was used in the defense of Constantinople. But anyway. So. So. So. There was that and then there were the details of Dr Lambs heads life and that was set up kind of a mystery across the true in two dollars like his wife had mysteriously died in a car crash. There have been other things that have been going on that that were left a as unknowns and I think it's because of that that. My imagination eventually turned to his grandson Jonathan Lamb said and a situation in the novel. where he inherits his grandfather's mansion after his grandfather's death. Only can get his inheritance is by cataloging the cabinet of curiosities in the mansion, and then everything kind of goes nuts from there and he winds up finding this. This were earth called Aurora where where allaster rally roles of Franco dramatic empire with the head of Napoleon. Asked is has his military adviser and on a pneumatic pedestal no less because he still has to be he has to be above. Natural. So. So that's kind of where where it came from and you can still find the disease guide, the Fake Disease Guide in a lot of medical libraries, some places it's under humor some places it's actually with the real disease guides and get a lot of pleasure out of first year, medical students, emailing me and saying that they just cracked up when they were looking for medical guide and they found this beside it so. I think the audience probably can guess this at this point in the conversation but I'll just go ahead and say that a peculiar peril is really funny and it has a very high joke per page ratio. It's legit impressive and it seemed like this was really really fun to right. I want to ask, is it more fun than writing something? That's a little more you know Moody and Horror. Derived and the humor was. was part of the DNA all along or did that kind of come out more naturally It's a really good question. It was naturally part of the DNA I always thought of it as this absurdist misadventure. That would be kind of commenting on quest to some degree because I just couldn't see writing a normal serious question. And I have to say the writing of it was was very intense because when you have as you say that kind of high ratio of jokes and whatnot in kind of like spinning plates where you're putting another one on top of another one, it's exhausting. So it was very fun to write but I wrote it slower than a lot of things like if I wrote chapter. I was done for the day. was exhausted. And in this particular case, I did obviously revised for certain things. But that kind of comic density was there from the very beginning and it was kind of the engine that drove things and it was something that in some cases felt a little more serious and sometimes less. So like Crawley's not serious but the bombast of him feels familiar from the real world now. And So it was a joy to write. It was a kind of satisfaction like I just finished hummingbirds Salamander, this ECO thriller and ahead of channel a lot of dark things into it, but he was very cassara to right there was something satisfying in the Tharcisse but here yes, it was a joy was just exhausted enjoy. One of the very weird unexpected things in this book is that the villains are kind of alternate universe versions of historical figures you mentioned Alister Crowley and. The POLIAN head. Talk about using these historical figures as villains and why you thought to do that. Instead of just you know creating an all-new evil wizard. Well, you know ironically I don't usually like historical fiction where we meet say. President Roosevelt or something I feel like there's there's people where you have this image in your head of what they're like and it's hard than to encounter a novel that has a different image of what they're like but because it an all earth. So you're basically dealing with alternate versions of them. Alternate personalities that kind of gave me the in that I was able to write about them like I literally don't think I would have been able to write about those characters in a straightforward historical novel. But because their existing in place with very wild magic it because they're transformed that Kinda of gave me license it also gave me license to play around with history. So I, actually know a lot about European history and I know a lot about European literature, the decadent movement, all these ridiculous writers, some of whom are actually in in the text like Alfred, Cuban and then of course, more famously and not ridiculously Kafka but didn't worry too much about adhering to well, how would this split off from this are to create something in an earth like that? It was more like Oh Napoleon's head. Isn't it? Well, he's not at the same time period is Crowley, but that's okay because they kind of kept him in cold storage as. Charlemagne is fine because they've resurrected him from a bog, right? So It makes sense. Yeah, and Kafka is not a writer. That's another thing I thought about is I thought about what are they doing instead of what they were doing this world so Kafka is not really a big big prize, but Kafka is actually writing the magical scripts on a wall that defends prog. Instead of writing stories. and he's amphibious. which I thought would be I mean that just seems like the no brainer. But yeah. So so I think it's mostly because I have absorbed. So much of this history that that I was able to just kind of like come out with the absurdist versions and I was waiting for reviewers to take task for. But I think it must be working because. They just kind of went with it. Your Your Book Annihilation was turned into a movie and if the trades to be believed, there's a more adaptations of your work coming. Yeah and I'm just curious what it's like doing an adaptation of your work. I mean another writing is I imagine a pretty solitary endeavor although you know you have editors and friends helping obviously but. What is that like taking something that you did largely on your own and then opening it up to a lot of other cooks. Well. First of all, it's it's extremely surreal is even happening the way my career went is II self published my first election after having published maybe sixty stories in selecting what I thought were the best ones. and. Then my early work or early novels were published by small presses that were eventually picked up by commercial presses published by F s G. so so the idea back in the day, like if someone had come back in time and said, eventually, it'd be a movie made of one of your books I would have been like I'm just working towards being on the remainder table in a chain bookstore. So. There's this unreal element to it still for me where I just cannot believe the stuff that got rejected for so long in many cases before it got. is even potentially going to be on the screen. Then with regard to collaboration family at annihilation, I did not have anything to do with it. But what I did do is I observed the process as much as possible from as many different angles as possible because I really learned very well from mimicry and I don't like involving myself. Until I know what it is. You know what? What makes sense how I'm not getting in the way and things like that. So the thing that is happening now is that. Born has been optioned by AMC for series and It's going out to potential show runners in there will be more of a creative consultant. So I'll be creating like the Bible depending on what the show runner. Actually has a vision for the show. And, and also potentially down the line, I might write an episode. But there. Again, I need to see someone else beginning to turn it into something. And then there's another thing where you know annihilation was. hilariously enough. Not, something where I could track how that process worked because there's like literally like almost no lines of dialogue from the novel in the in the movie, right? So I couldn't exactly. You know track how that happened A. so now now that process is ongoing and I will become gradually more submerged in this. But at the end today I'm a novelist and like to tell stories, and so it's unlikely that I will become a screenplay writer or off that I heard you on a podcast called ten things that scare me and this came out in twenty nineteen and you mentioned that one of your fears is that art with a message can't reach people. The great example of someone who listens to the sex pistols and yet and absorbs values from the sex pistols. So that was released last year and obviously a lot of things have happened since last year. How are you feeling now about including messages in your work? Well I'm not really trying to deal with the singer in now I, think in a lot of writers are saying this. I think wisely, it takes a long time to kind of absorb this thing that's happening now. Anyone who's feeling angst about not including that in their work I think they should not worry about it. It's it's not something for fiction writers right away. It's something that comes out later. But with regard to the messaging like dead astronauts, the last novel ahead was the direct result in some ways of talking to a radical environmentalism class and somebody raised their hand and said, well, I really liked annihilation but I would have appreciated a more direct environmental book more direct message. Inside to that as kind of a challenge, regardless of whether I feel like it will change minds. I thought that the message I was getting and I got this a couple of times from the younger generation is that they wanted something more didactic and maybe if it was more didactic, it would have more of an impact in I've always been somebody who wants to lead you into something where you begin to think about it not throw it in your face, but dead astronauts is much more. Didactic and the way made up for that is by being more poetic at the same time to kind of distill the didactic quality and Hummingbird Salamander is another vehicle for that in that it's an ECO thriller coming out next year where a woman living a very ordinary life received something very extraordinary from dead woman in his plunged into a world pool of wildlife trafficking and ECO terrorism. Where again allows me to directly deal with these things. and. So I think I think the jury's out on whether how direct this? Is But an eye elation. I. Will say that especially in the last couple of years there have been a lot of people who've come up to me and said while not during the coronavirus maybe emailed. He told you six feet away. They told me from afar very far but that they have young people going into environmental science is the biggest one that I get. and. The subsidiary thing that happens which is because I talk about the yard on twitter, the number of people every week who say stop using herbicides pesticides or started planting native plants for the wildlife or things like that. So. It didn't really show up on that show, but there's this subsidiary thing where The novels are the vehicle. The fact that a lot of people read them as the vehicle for being able. To? Kind of. Spouse the same values, the non fictional world that's maybe where the influence comes from. So you can't say the novel isn't part of it because without the novels no, one would be listening to me. They probably shouldn't be listening to me anyway especially after reading about giant talking. You mentioned twitter I. Think this is a good segue into talking about your your twitter presence which a big fan of I recommend everybody follow. Vandermeer. And you you have a lot of wildlife photography on there. Just things I. Imagine you're seeing around your house in your yard and yeah, and every time I see a new animal pop up I'm like Vladimir is going to turn that into a monster I just know. Talk about being online I think a lot of authors aren't or at least a lot of my favorite. Very online. But yeah, you always seem to have a good stream of jokes and observations and talking with fans. Yeah. Why is that something? You make time for Your Day Early on I. Really had no choice like I said I I came out of small press, and so I was my own publicist I was the person going out and talking the bookstores and whatnot a lot of the time. And in fact, I've had good relationships with at indy bookstores for a long time because of that but part and parcel of that is that I've had to kind of put myself out there and I feel like it's been part of the fact that especially early on what I was writing was very surreal. So it wasn't easy to describe in like a line or something. So I had to put in that extra effort and I think that it just naturally than it felt natural to continue that kind of relationship through twitter and facebook. But also to have fun with it, I really don't want to be pitching you my novel twenty, four seven I want to be engaging in a kind of creative play and having a conversation with people. And what's really hilarious to me is when I started posting Hickson, the yard and animals I thought for sure I would lose to thousands of followers have been mostly of the book recommendations before that and instead I'm I'm getting I think I have forty six thousand followers now, and that's like thirty thousand more than two years ago when I started most in the yard votes so that was like astonishing to me. The people would care, and so now it's just like finding the right balance like I know some days I post too many photos of baby raccoons. Can never have too many photos the baby raccoons I. Or like but but then sometimes, things kind of suggests story like last week when I discovered that. I there's A. Rabbit called with the Hashtag is the trader Jesse Bond. Trader was eating my wildflowers but then last week as I was videoing the bunny I realized that it was not the same bunny I'd just seen in the front yard and that had been talking to multiple. Rabbits this entire time? And so there's things like that that that also feedback into the fiction like that made something click in my head about a story and knowing the individual animals in the individual raccoons in you know this house is ridiculous a second treehouse with so many windows that you're always seeing the lives of the wildlife around you. And then the trail camp at night. So those personalities I find slip into like the talking animals, peculiar payroll, but also sometimes into some of the humor. As. Well. Because they are individuals and there's something that that captures the imagination. So so it becomes kind of amazing Lupu things were kind of entertaining people, but I'm also in a way beginning to write. It must be interesting to be doing your book tour for your new book virtually in the time of pandemic. I was wondering what that was like for you Do you miss book signings and Comic Cons Or is you know doing these interviews from the comfort of your home plus you? It's really interesting question and it's influenced by the fact that I did a whirlwind tour in December of last year for dead astronauts where I hit like seven or eight cities in like two weeks. And and then went from that to. This. And I think it's weird because I like doing live events a lot but I'm not an introvert. Kinda drained me. I don't get energy from them. So I thought it would be Fine. Doing things remotely but it turns out that I. Really. I really liked that live audience reaction like even for serious books, I usually tell funny anecdotes ahead of time where I I, read a funny bit. And so usually get some kind of reaction from that unless you really tanked. And so I really do miss that and I find that things like zoom actually in some ways exhaust me more like it would exhaust me in a different way. At the same time it has up so many opportunities I think people who? Are introverts in. Don't tour much or don't like doing those things probably feel a lot freer and. More liberated doing something on zoom. So I don't know it's something you're still like still in the middle of figuring out but I did zoom thing yesterday where I got to see some writers I really like have known for awhile and it was like this is just an excuse to see the friends that I can't see other. Him. So. Japan demere. Thank you so much for talking to us on Bulte. I'll thanks so much for having me. It was a lot of fun. Jeff Vandermeer his newest book a peculiar peril is on sale. Now at independent bookstores all over the country. Jordan Morris who conducted the interview also has a new thing out. He's a writer on the brand new Disney plus space muppet talk. Earth. tonette. So go check that out. That's the end of another episode of Bullseye. Bullseye is produced from the homes of me and the sheriff of maximum. Fund in and around Greater Los Angeles. California. Where are Co worker Kira just installed fun disco lights in her bedroom and now all of her videoconferences. Totally. Show is produced by speaking into microphones. Our producer is Kevin Ferguson Hey sue SOMBRERO and Jordan cowling are associate producers we get help from Casey O'Brien are interstitial music is by Dan Wally also known Dj W. R. Theme Song is by the go team thanks to them in their label Memphis Industries for letting US use it you can keep up with the show on facebook twitter and youtube just search for Bullseye with Jesse Thorn I'm on twitter at Justin Foreign I. think that's about it just remember all great radio hosts have a signature sign. Bullseye with Jesse Thorn is a production of maximum fund dot org and is distributed by NPR.

Jeff Vandermeer twitter Florida NPR Jordan Morris writer Fiji Jesse Thorn Neil Gaiman Kafka Alister Crowley Jonathan Lamb Beatrix Potter Jordan Jesse Jordan Northern Florida Alex Garland Jordan Morrison James Thurbers
Oakville Blobs Pt. 1

Unexplained Mysteries

40:52 min | 1 year ago

Oakville Blobs Pt. 1

"Due to the graphic nature of this unexplained mystery listener discretion is advised. This episode includes discussions of animal deaths. Some people may find upsetting. We advise extreme caution for children under the age of thirteen. At three am on August Seventh Nineteen ninety-four officer David. Lacey took a civilian friend for a ride along through Oakville Washington. He'd only been driving for a short time when he noticed something off about the rain. At first, he thought his old wiper blades couldn't keep up with the barrage. They skated across the droplets rather than swiping them away. The wipers left long streaks making it impossible to see. But then he realized it was the raindrops, not the wipers that were the problem. Instead of running down his windshield, the stuck to it. Unable to see the road in front of him officer lacy, hold over to clear off his windshield. Once. He and his friend climbed out of the car both were surprised to find it covered in small sticky clear balls. The Gu had fallen from the sky mingling with the rain. The balls continue to rain down as the two men examined the car landing on their hats and shoulders with soft plops. Officer Lacy Donda pair of latex gloves in scooped up some of the balls. They clump together easily congealing into a transparent mush. Shrugging he cleared off. His windshield climbed back into the car and headed back towards the police station lease encounter was brief. But. It's set off a chain reaction that changed oakville forever. Just hours after touching the jelly lacy was stricken with Severe Vertigo. He couldn't keep his balance and soon developed a fever and horrible nausea. Lacy was the first of dozens to be affected by the fallout. He didn't know it yet, but the blobs that had rained down over twenty square miles of Oakville. Just unusual. They were dangerous. Welcome to unexplained mysteries a podcast original I'm your host. Wally and I'm your host Richard. In Life. There's so much we don't know, but in this show we don't take no for an answer. Every Tuesday and Thursday we investigate the greatest mysteries of history and life on earth. You can find episode of unexplained mysteries, and all other park has originals for free on spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts to stream, unexplained mysteries for free on spotify just open the APP and type unexplained mysteries in the search bar. This is our first episode on the OAKVILLE blobs. In the summer of Nineteen, ninety-four, tiny gelatinous balls, the size of pinheads carpeted the small town of Oakville Washington. They rain down six times over three weeks dissolving into the ground in the DS. fell. People who encountered the Goo complained of nausea, fever, Vertigo and stomach issues that lasted for weeks. Over twenty five years later, we still don't know what the blobs were or why. They made people sick. This week will cover the Blob fall-outs in Phil- and the residents search for answers. Next week we'll explore possible explanations for the OAKVILLE blobs. Theories abound blaming everything from flying jellyfish to airlines dumping human waste to secret biowarfare experiments. Whatever they were, the blobs made their mark on Oakville and left a trail of destruction in their wake. OAKVILLE Washington. Founded in one thousand, nine, hundred five, this tiny village nestled in the forests of the Pacific northwest is lovingly nicknamed Timber-town USA by its residence. It's a vibrant old logging town with a small historic district, populated by antique dealers and restaurants. Many of its residents live on farms at the edge of town. OAKVILLE was above all a quiet place to live. But that silence was shattered forever on August seventh nineteen, ninety, four. That morning started strangely for oakville resident beverly. Roberts Left her house to find a large pile of cleared shelley by the side of the road. A frog and a raven lay next to it. Both dead. Worried that the Jelly might have poisoned the animals, beverly donned latex gloves to collect a sample, but even that precaution wasn't enough. By the end of the day beverly felt nauseous. She had chills one moment, but sweated feverishly the next. And by the time she woke up the following morning, her vertigo was so severe she could hardly walk. Beverly dressed on the floor and crawl to her car before driving incredibly slowly and carefully to her doctor's office. When. She arrived. It was apparent she wasn't the only one who is sick. The waiting room was full of people suffering from flu like symptoms and extreme vertigo, the one constant among all the patients they'd all come into contact with a mysterious blobs. The people beverly saw at the doctor's office weren't even the half of it. Some OAKVILLE residents had gotten even sicker than her Dadi hearn, a farmer from the other side of town became sick enough to require emergency hospitalization. On August seventh, nineteen, ninety-four Dadi rose early. The mid August son was already rising, and she was eager to make the morning rounds of her property before it grew unbearably hot. She lived on a small farm on the outskirts of town. Right where the city limits ended in the dense forest because even. When Dadi stepped onto her back porch, she was surprised to see it was littered with small hailstones. Hail wasn't unusual for that time of year especially during an overnight storm. OAKVILLE lay at the western edge of Washington, state and normally received precipitation two hundred seventy five days a year. But with the rising temperature, the hail, covering Dadis property should've melted as it hit the ground. Instead it lay in small mounds of over her property, Dadi Knelt to examine a clump on the sealed wooden firewood box that sat at the corner of her porch. She realized that the hell. Half the size of a grain of rice looked softer than normal. She touched it and was surprised to find it was squishy. It's sprang back when she withdrew her finger jiggling like Jello. Whatever this was, it wasn't hail. Later that morning, Daddy's daughters sunny bark lift turned into her mother's driveway. The blood still had melted away. They were everywhere covering the lawn the front steps even her mother's car. When sunny win inside. The, normally spry Dadi lying on the couch. Sunny was concerned, but Dadi insisted she was fine. She only had a headache and was just taking a rest until the aspirin kicked in. Wanting to take sonny's mind off of her symptoms, dotty changed the subject. She asked Sonny if she knew anything. About the tiny bits of Gu that were scattered over the property, they looked like hail, but they smeared all over the place when Dadi had tried to clear them off the wood box. Donnie tried to stand to show sunny, but couldn't keep her balance. She was ghostly. Pale and beads of sweat stood out on her forehead. She said her stomach felt upset. Like something she'd eaten hadn't agreed with her. She laid back down, but even that didn't work no matter what she did. The Room wouldn't stop spinning. Sunny into the kitchen. thinking a glass of water would help subtler mother's stomach. But seconds after she left, she heard a terrible crash from the next room. Daddy had collapsed. Terrified sunny hoisted her mother from the floor and proctor right, but daddy didn't feel any better when she was sitting up, she needed Dr Sunny half. Drag Dadi outside to her car. Before she left. She remembered what her mother had said about trying to clear off the wood box. She scooped up a sample of the Gu to bring to the doctor. At McCleary Hospital Dr David. Little examined Daddy. He was immediately skeptical of Sunny Story. In his opinion, Dadi symptoms were consistent with an ear infection. A severe case could cause vertigo and nausea and Sonny's claims sounded too outlandish. He didn't think the infection could be caused by strange blogs from the sky. He told Sonny not to worry. Dodd would need to stay at the hospital for a few days, but she'd be back to normal in no time. But, while daddy recovered, an influx of patients complained of similar symptoms including officer David Lacey and Oakville resident Beverly Roberts. Dr Little's final diagnosis for all of these patients was many years disease, a condition characterized by episodes of inner ear issues. According to the Mayo Clinic. Sufferers Experience Bouts of Vertigo. Nausea ear pressure and Tinnitus or ringing in the ears. But Sunny wasn't so sure that many as disease was blame for her mother's illness. For one thing, it wasn't contagious. Sunny founded highly suspicious that multiple people in town would spontaneously develop the same inner ear issue all at the same time for another man years, disease is a chronic condition that none of the patients had ever experienced ear problems before, and there were other symptoms to consider along with her balance problems Dadi also had a fever and felt fatigued when sunny ask Dr Little about these ailments shrugged. He told her he didn't know and that. It must be some type of virus on top of her many years disease. But Sunny was certain that there was a connection between the rash of ear infections and the BLOB fallout, and as she soon found out, nausea and dizziness were only the beginning. The OAKVILLE blogs. We're deadly. Coming up Sonny's investigation continues until she hits a potential government. Cover up. Our cast has an incredible new series aimed to brighten your days and renew your outlook on life. It's called daily quote, and it's a quick two to three minute daily podcast for you to get inspired by. Now more than ever self, care and self love, take top priority, and the more fulfilled. You feel more grounded, you become. Every day on daily quote, you'll be given. A quote meant to motivate and uplift. You'll also dive deeper into the context surrounding the quote learning more about its origin and the meaning behind. There has already been such an interesting mix of quotes featured so far. To that stuck in my mind are from the author J, R R, tolkien and painter Bob Ross. I really can't recommend enough so whether you're jump starting the morning searching for that midday, pick me up or trying to finish the evening off. Strong daily quote offers some of history's most inspirational quotes whenever you need them three hundred sixty five days a year. Followed daily quote free on spotify over. Have you get your podcasts? Now back to the story. After the inexplicable blob fallout on August seventh, nineteen, ninety-four many Oakville Washington residents were diagnosed with inner ear infections and unknown respiratory illnesses. Doctors dismissed it as a coincidence, but sunny bark lift felt the mysterious. Goo had something to do with the sickness spreading through the town. Well her mother Dottie recovered in the hospital sunny state at the farm to keep an eye on her animals. The first day she found a kitten curled up outside right next to a pile of goop. When sunny approached it? It lifted its head and let out a plaintiff barely audible meal. It was so weak it could barely cry. Sunny scooped up the kitten and brought it inside. It was sick and she had a sinking feeling that the blobs had something to do with it. When she looked closely at the kittens mouth, her worst suspicions were confirmed. The kitten had goo cotton. It's whiskers. The poor thing had eaten a blob. Sunny tried to nurse the kitten back to help. She feted with a bottle, but minutes later it threw up. She watched the rise in full of its tiny chest as it laid on the floor of frayed that at any moment it would die, but the kitten clung to life. You didn't get any better, but it didn't pass away either. As the hours passed the blobs outside slowly melted away. Afraid, she would lose evidence sunny collected more samples and froze them for safekeeping. Days past and each morning. The kittens seemed frailer. Sunny watched as another storm hit Dadis property, and the blobs fell with the rain once more. She did her best to keep her mother's other barn, cats and dogs from the GOOP. She managed to protect the other animals, but Sonny's efforts were too late for the kitten on August. Tenth it died of its mysterious illness. Sunny feared what this could mean for her mother. Daddy's brief brush with the Goo already landed her in the hospital with Vertigo and nausea. ranted Dadi hadn't eaten the blogs, but as sickness spread across the farm sunny worried that contact was enough for the blobs to kill their victims. Over the coming days, many of Dadis outdoor cats reportedly died. Sunny heard stories of friends, pets and livestock dying as well. Dadis dogs became sick, too, but thankfully they eventually recovered. Dadi started doing better as well a week after her collapse. Dr Little released her from McCleary hospital. Though he was still certain. Dali's problems were related to her inner ear. Sunny insisted that the Gu had made her mother sick. She told the doctor how quickly the animals at Dadis property had died after ingesting the blogs. Seeing Sonny's distress, Dr Little finally agreed to have her sample tested. At first the lab staff was reluctant to examine the specimen like Dr, little, they were sure that the outbreak in Oakville was little more than a few inner ear infections, but they agreed to look at it under a microscope through the lands, the lab tech quickly spotted and unusual amorphous shape on the slide. She pulled in tighter until it filled the screen. She focused sharpening the edges until she could see the microscopic structure clearly. And finally she confirmed her impossible suspicion. It was unmistakable, floating right in the center of the GOOP was a white blood cell, a human white blood cell. White blood cells or leukocyte fight infection and boost the immune system. Normally they're produced by stem cells in the bone marrow, and are stored there until needed. If the OAKVILLE. blobs were living animal organisms. They'd have their own unique white blood cells, but instead they purportedly contained human leukocyte S- which would mean someone had added human cells or the Blob said come from a human. Normally white blood cells can only survive for a limited time outside of the bloodstream. If someone had say, cut a finger and bled on the BLOB, their cells wouldn't have lasted for long, but the leukocyte had survived for days inside the Google before the lab tech finally spotted the living cells. Nobody could explain how the cells had ended up in the BLOB. The glue that rain down in Oakville wasn't blood, and it certainly wasn't part of a human body. Rather than providing clarity, the discovery of the Lucas sites only deepened the mystery. Nevertheless the hospital staff still insisted that the townspeople simply had inner ear infections. The white blood cell was mysterious, but it hardly proved the blobs had made anyone sick. They refused to do any further testing reasoning that there was no need besides the hospital's equipment wasn't advanced enough to run many more tests and they didn't want to waste resources sending it to another lab. Sunny Bark lift founded strange that McCleary, hospitals researchers wanted nothing more to do with the blobs. She was confused as to why they couldn't call in an expert or send the sample elsewhere, especially given how high the stakes were. The blobs kept raining down six times throughout August each time they fell more people and animals got sick, just as her mother left the hospital on August fourteenth sunny came down with Vertigo and nausea to. Though her symptoms were milder, she was afraid that the continuing Blob foles could and would make more people severely ill. Maybe, they'd even kill someone. Scrambling for answers, sunny called The Washington State Health Department and spoke to Dr John Kobe I she. Dr Kobayashi an epidemiologist with a specialty in infectious diseases was intrigued by the illness plaguing OAKVILLE. He urged sunny to immediately send one of her frozen samples to the state health lab in shoreline, just north of Seattle. When fellow epidemiologist Mike McDowell received the envelope, containing the clear gelatinous specimen. He didn't know what to expect. He decided to begin his analysis as he normally would by looking for bacteria. In a lab setting researchers like Dr McDowell often test a sample by trying to make culture of bacteria meaning they tried to get the bacteria to reproduce and live in a controlled setting. To do this. They prepare a special type of liquid or Gel called a medium. The medium is chock full of nutrients and other things that bacterial cells need to flourish outside the body without a medium. Most bacteria will die before scientists can fully study them once. His medium was prepared doctrine doc placed a sample of Goo on it and sealed it. He hoped that. If any bacteria was present in the blob specimen, it would thrive within the medium. After a few days. Dr McDowell successfully cultivated two types of organisms from the sample. The I was PSEUDOMONAS fluorescence a bacteria that lives in soil water, and on the skin of plants and animals? Some strains caused disease in humans, but McDowell wasn't able to prove that this one caused the oakville illnesses or that they were even related. The second bacteria was intro b-actor Clo-, Achey, which is commonly found in the human digestive tract. INTRO b-actor, clue, Achey and human white blood cells are almost never found outside the human body. They wouldn't be able to survive long outside of laboratory conditions, so their presence in the blogs was puzzling. The blobs contained bacterial cells and Lucas sites, but they weren't made of cells themselves in other words, blobs weren't alive, but they contain cells that should only surviving a living creature, or in a lab created medium McDowell concluded, the strange gelatinous substance was a matrix. In Biology Matrix is another term for medium and matrixes. Don't occur in nature only in labs. The evidence was undeniable in his opinion the blobs or manmade. As he continued to research. Dr McDowell theorized that somebody had purposefully created the OAKVILLE blobs vehicle to carry bacteria. Towards what end he didn't know. Later in an interview McDowell suggested something sinister had happened at Oakville. He, said this material, and I have no proof. One way or the other was manufactured by someone for some purpose, and for some reason OAKVILLE was chosen as the test site. But McDowell only had one piece of the puzzle. He didn't know who could have made the BLOBS, or how exactly they made people sick. He wasn't even sure. The infections had been intentional. More study was necessary. The day after he found the bacteria, McDowell arrived at his lab early in the morning. He hoped to examine the sample to see if any other organisms were growing in the culture. But, when McDowell went to retrieve the specimen, it was nowhere to be found. The turned the lab of down. But, still no Goo. Somehow for the first time in thirty years, Dr McDowell had lost a research sample. He alerted his supervisor. When he questioned how his sample had gone missing, his supervisor responded with three words. Do not ask. McDowell was stricken by his supervisors warning and had left him reeling with suspicion. He concluded that the mishap at his lab indicated that the government was in on it. Who else could've executed such a perfect cover up? But with the sample missing, he couldn't do anything more for sunny. So? She chased other leads. She sent more samples to Mike Osweiler, at the Washington State Department of Ecology, Osweiler was the head of the hazardous material spills response team. He oversaw cleanups of dangerous materials and bio hazards throughout Washington. If the blobs were some kind of biological weapon sunny thought he could help. At his has Matlab osweiler found a number of cells within the Gu. While he couldn't identify their exact sources. He did discover a surprising new detail. All the cells were from different living organisms. They came from multiple types of animals, not just humans. Unfortunately his equipment wasn't precise enough for him to identify exactly what species had the cells? Osweiler only positively identified one. Another white blood cell it seemed like a typical human leukocyte except for one thing. This sal had no nucleus. Nuclei contain DNA or chemicals that tell the cell what to do. Normally every plant and animal cell has a nucleus otherwise it wouldn't be able to function properly. The only cells that don't have nuclear I come from simple organisms like bacteria, and they don't have blood or white blood cells. This was like nothing osweiler had ever seen before. Sadly, he couldn't determine much more. Oswaldo was a hazardous waste expert, not a biologist. He told Sonny about the lack of a nucleus, but admitted he wasn't able to shed much more light on the blobs. Sunny was beginning to think she'd never find out what was going on, so she changed tactics if she couldn't find a researcher who could help her? Maybe the experts would come to her. Sunny just needed to get the word out. She spoke to journalists and news networks, hoping to drum up public interest. After the specimen was stolen from Mike McDowell's lab sunny publicly questioned whether some sort of government cover up was at play. In her opinion, there was no other reason why the blob should be so stubbornly and matic. Sonny's mother Dadi wanted answers to. Almost a year after the summer of the BLOBS, she sent out samples of her own for testing. She'd collected during one of the BLOB fallouts and had started in her freezer for months this time the sample went to microbiologist. Tim Davis a researcher at an independent lab. Well Tim had more biological experience than Mike Osweiler. He still wasn't able to positively identify the material he did find a EUKARYOTIC cell. That is an organic sell that did have a nucleus, but he wasn't able to determine any more information. At this point to researchers had found cells with Nuclei, one found a white blood cell with no nucleus. These conflicting results only led to more questions about the BLOBS, and they weren't giving up their secrets that easily. A year after the blobs came to Oakville, their origin was still a mystery, but researchers had uncovered a few key facts. The Jelly either once was or had come from something that was alive. or it had been created as a matrix to keep micro-organisms alive. It contained bacteria that could cause illness, but it was unclear this particular bacteria was making oakville aliens sick human gut bacteria was also present, and some samples had what appeared to be human white blood cells inside them. then. There was the mystery around the BLOBS appearance and subsequent Vanishing Act. They rain down on Oakville six times in August nineteen, ninety four, but never again afterward. The goo that had coded roads and fields had dissolved into the ground and once sunny. Dadi sent out all their samples. There was no more left to test within a year. All the evidence had disappeared leaving only mystery in its wake. Coming up. We'll compare the OAKVILLE blobs to other mysterious jellies now back to the story. The OAKVILLE blobs, are an Iguana. We know that they fell to the ground during a number of rainstorms in August nineteen, ninety four, they reportedly contained bacteria as well as human white blood cells some with a nucleus some without. A number of oakville residents got sick after touching the stuff and pets and livestock died. But that's it. That's as far as the evidence takes us in the nearly twenty six years since that first rainfall, no one has conclusively proven what the Gel was or why it fell from the sky. The blobs have long since dissolved into the ground, and no samples remain to test with modern lab equipment. The residents of oakville recovered from their illnesses and tried to get back to normal, but mystery remained. And as far as we can tell, the substance hasn't appeared anywhere since. But. We could look at some similar phenomena to see if we can identify any trends. To be clear, there's never been another recorded event quite like the oakville blogs, but around the world there have been reports of bizarre objects, plants, animals, even blood raining down from the sky. In the fourteenth century, scholars in what's now. The United Kingdom reported strange gelatinous stuff that appeared in mounds and piles. This substance called star. Jelly legendarily appeared on grass and trees in large translucent clumps after meteor showers. This star, Jelly or some other substance similar to it was documented by various cultures all over the world, some medieval medical guide suggested it as a remedy for abscesses and ulcers, unlike the OAKVILLE. blobs star Jelly is a repeat phenomenon. Even today it still frequently found after meteor showers, fuelling rumours that falls the stars. It's important to note that nobody has reported seeing star Jelly full from the sky, and intermingle with rain like the oakville blogs, and as near as we can tell. Star Jelly doesn't make people sick each time it appears the Jelly. Exists for a few short hours before dissipating into the ground. Since the substance never last long. It's proven difficult to research. Some hypothesize the material is excreted from frogs salamanders worms. In two thousand fourteen Scottish researchers miles. Oh, Riley, Nicole Ross published a paper claiming that star Jelly was glycoprotein a substance. Female frogs have in their reproductive system. When a is killed by a Predator, it secretes glycoprotein which uses to the ground. There it reacts with do or other moisture and swells into a large pile of GEL. Another theory is that star Jelly is a type of slime mold. These are colonies of single celled organisms that grow together in soil, dead trees and on forest floors. Those slime molds, variant size, shape and behavior. They all share one thing in common. A state of their life cycle where they resemble and Jelly like slime. While frogs and slime molds might produce star Jelly. It's not certain that they're the only source of it. It's difficult to say if it all comes from the same place, or if different organisms make different star jellies. Just like the OAKVILLE blobs. Researchers haven't been able to extract any DNA from star. Jelly But while the OAKVILLE blobs contained bacteria and Lucas sites. Scientists, studying star Jelly could not find any cells at all. Which means whatever star Jelly is. It's not the same thing as the OAKVILLE, blobs. But there are other examples of strange non nucleic cells falling from the sky, and they point to a surprising possible explanation that perhaps the blogs came from outer space. In July two, thousand one and intense storms battered Carola estate in south western India. But this rainstorm was different. The droplets landing on the ground were blood red. Researchers examining the Carola blood rain found a microscopic cells floating in their samples. The general consensus was that the red color was caused by scarlet fungal spores that had somehow gotten sucked into the rain clouds. But some dispute the officials story instead they believed the rain had a more extraterrestrial origin. In two thousand ten physicist Godfrey Lewis published a paper on the Red Rain, Carola had experienced nine years earlier. Lewis was surprised when he tried to extract DNA from the cells found in the rain. They didn't have nuclei, and he was unable to find any identifiable DNA whatsoever. This proved that the cells weren't fungal spores as all fun guy have nuclei, Lewis performed a battery of tests on them, hoping to figure out where they come from. When he applied heat to the cells, he was astonished to find that not only did they survive the grew at temperatures up to two hundred fifty degrees Fahrenheit. That's hot enough to kill most living things on earth. So. Maybe the so-called Fungal Spores Warren from Earth at all. Lewis proposed that the cells travel to our planet on a meteor that exploded upon entry into the atmosphere. The clouds absorb the alien micro-organisms, then later arraigned them down on Carola in July, two, thousand one. Like Louis scientists examining the OAKVILLE blobs encountered cells missing nuclei with their gooey specimens. If Lewis is right about careless red rain, perhaps that means the OAKVILLE blobs came from the farthest reaches of the Galaxy. Of course, this is all speculation. The OAKVILLE blobs weren't blood red, and they were more gelatinous than liquid. Other than the presence of non nucleic cells, there's no strong connection between the two phenomena. We can't rule out the possibility that the BLOBS game from space, but we don't have any strong evidence that they did either. Just conjecture based on the BLOBS mild similarity to another substance, which we haven't proven is extraterrestrial in origin. In short the things we don't know about this theory outweigh the things we do. The OAKVILLE BLOBS has stumped professional researchers and amateur theorists alike for over twenty five years with each new revelation. The solution only grows more obscured. Today. We are no closer to discovering the truth than we were in August. One, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety four. But the residents of Oakville still want answers, and in the flurry of gathering samples, calling researchers and tracking symptoms, a number of theories emerged about the origin of the enigmatic goop. I, the very gross possibility that the BLOB storms over Oakville were excrement. Commercial airliners illegally dumped human waste over Washington state which caused the spate of mysterious illnesses. Or blobs were actually the remains of dead jellyfish. These creatures were sucked out of the sea by a freak, waterspout and rain down on the hapless residents, inundating them with rotting jellies. and. Finally the poisonous Goo was the result of military experiments on the city of OAKVILLE. Answers have remained so elusive because the government covered up the tests. The OAKVILLE. BLOBS could have come from the see the air, or even the stars twenty five years later they still inspire fear awe, and above all a desperate need to know the truth, because the blobs rain down once. Couldn't they come? Again. Thanks again for tuning into unexplained mysteries. We will be back Thursday with part. Two of the OAKVILLE BLOBS for more information on the blobs amongst the many sources we use. We found the daily Chronicle extremely helpful to our research as well as sunny. Bark lifts account of the incident on medium. You can find all episodes of unexplained mysteries, and all other park cast originals for free on spotify not only does spotify already have all of your favorite music, but now specifies making it easy for you to enjoy all of your favorite park cast originals like unexplained mysteries for free from your phone, desktop or smart speaker to stream, unexplained mysteries on spotify just open the APP and type unexplained mysteries in the search bar. And remember never take, we don't no for an answer. Unexplained mysteries was created by Max Cutler and is a cast studios. Original executive producers include Max and Ron Cutler sound design by Trent Williamson with production assistance by Ron Shapiro, carly, Madden and Travis Clark. Episode of unexplained mysteries was written by Molly Quinlan with writing assistance by Maggie Admire and stars, Molly, Brandenburg and Richard Rosner.

oakville Sunny Dadi sonny researcher vertigo nausea Mike McDowell spotify Sunny Bark lift Dr Little Oakville Washington officer Lucas Beverly Roberts Sunny Story David Lacey Washington Daddy
Edition 2181

Monocle 24: The Briefing

56:27 min | 1 year ago

Edition 2181

"You're listening to the briefing first broadcast the nineteenth of March two thousand and twenty on monocle. Twenty four hello and welcome to the briefing coming to you live from studio while near Dory House in London. I'm Andrew Mullah coming up. The vaccine educates the body's immune system. So it can recognize something and that way it produces all of the things. The immune system would produce journey natural infection the search for a vaccine we'll hear from a virologist about the race to beat covert nineteen late in the show. It's a little over a decade since we last saw global markets tanked so spectacularly and during a US presidential election at that. Did we learn anything useful? Also ahead pontificating from home news panel will discuss the latest developments. We'll find out why one sports league has bucked the global trend and cold play on. Hello Monaco's Nick Minnie's and I will be explaining why Australian football is continuing down under and we'll be talking to Greg Jenna about his new book reflecting on the history and meaning of fame. All that coming up right here on the briefing on monocle. Twenty four and welcome to today's edition of the briefing ultimately. It may be that the only way to properly arrest the spread of covert nineteen is with the vaccine is hopefully some consolation right now around the world. Some of the clever people alive are presently working on exactly that the US company Madonna indeed has already begun human trials. The vaccine in Seattle Chris Smith is a virologist at Cambridge University and host of the naked scientists podcast. He spoke to Monaco's Georgina Godwin a bit earlier and started by explaining how the process of making a vaccine generally works the way in which this is approached is first of all you got to understand what does vaccine do vaccine educates the body's immune system so it can recognize something and that way it produces all of the things the immune system would produce journey natural infection. But they're premade and ready to go before you encounter the thing for real so that when you doing council thing for real there. Isn't this catch up. By the immune system. While the disease runs amok the immune system immediately neutralizes the invader so it's all about preparing the immune system. But you've got to do it in the right way by showing the immune system the right bits of the pathogen. One was virus or microorganisms. Some kind and giving it enough time in order to mount that defense. How is this company Medina in Seattle approaching the problem? Well there are lots of different strategies to doing this. And before we talk about Madonna. Perhaps let's consider what Edward Jenner did a couple of hundred two hundred fifty years ago. He took virus in that case He was trying to immunize people against smallpox which was at that time killing a third of the people infected. We're we're worried about this. Corona virus which infects and see which affects a lot of people but kills about one percent of the people in fakes. So you can imagine how worried people were about smallpox. What Jinnah did was to expose people to cowpox which is related virus and because those two viruses look so similar the immune system responded to the cowpox producing factors which worked also against smallpox. You could say. Why don't we just do that? Against this new Kuroda virus because there's a big family viruses out that we've encountered many of them before they're afford that circulate every year in humans we could just borrow one of those couldn't we unfortunately naught because the business end of this virus. What did that she uses to get into the cells in the lungs and give people of our new. Monja is actually unique to this virus. So we've got to make some kind of way of producing the thing that this virus makes to get into ourselves then showing the body how that prepares them. These looks in the body and then make you make a response now. There's a couple of ways of doing that one is you. You just make the protein. The Chemical Varsity is an inject people with that the other which many companies including Madeira exploring. Is You actually take the genetic code for that? Bit of the surface of the virus. And if you inject or in one company. I've been speaking to the next couple of days. This case you actually blow up the nose. The genetic code packaged up cells. Take it up and in the same way that I can take a computer program will fuel computer and my computer will understand if I just say Shalva USB drive in my computer and read the code cells can pick up that piece of code and turn it into a version of the virus would make in the body and so that's what they're doing. They've made their making pieces of genetic information that can be injected. Or you're exposed to cells. Then turn that piece of genetic message into the real deal what the virus would make in the body and that shows the immune system and it looks like and that in turn produces an immune response now of course speed is of the essence. Here aren't necessary. Safety steps being left out in an attempt to to fast track this process. No and that's the one thing that everyone's being emphatic. About safety is key because at the end of the day the reason we're going down this path is we want to keep people safe. That's why we want vaccine so no one wants to be in the unenviable position where you've not just invest is a lot of time and a lot of money. Eagles are taking people's confidence and said we're GONNA sort this out and then you expose them to something that may actually make them worse. Because there's evidence that if you get this wrong and you make the wrong source of immune response in response to your vaccines when people then encounter this for real. They could get a worse infection than if they'd never been vaccinated and that will be a terrible position to be in so everyone is being clear while we rushing to the line to be the first to produce some kind of way of vaccinating people that does not short-circuit shortcut the regulatory processes. So people are still looking at perhaps a year to a year and a half before we got something ready to go and once we have that ready in in a year or year and a half. How quickly could it then? Manufacture to the extent where it would be available in level sufficient to stop the spread of the virus. Will the good thing about this strategy? This being proposed by this other companies. Is that because these short pieces of genetic information or even short bits of protein themselves. They're very easy to make and they're very easy to make massive scale because we already have facilities to do that and do it quickly. Unlike say a flu vaccine the way we make flu. Vaccines is you. Order millions of laboratory grade eggs. And then you in fact those eggs and then you've got to wait for the virus to grow and then extract the virus and clean it up. This would be a lot faster. You can be more agile with this once. We have something. That's safe proven to work and ready to go. Actually the scale up and then the deployment is not. It's not simple but it's easier than it could be so I mean this is quite reassuring we can think the end is in sight. Yeah the the thing is i. Think a lot of people especially this week of have begun to sorta stare the harsh reality in the face especially some of these sanctions and these lockdowns and other maneuvers come into full force the begun to realize that this is not a drill. This is not something to be taken trivial. Look how much this is costing not just this country but many countries look what is going to do to people's lives look what he's GonNa do to their livelihoods. There are many people who you know. That businesses are imploding. As a have a friend who lives in Philadelphia and America. He runs a travel business and He he and I met because he ended up listening to some radio programs. I was making. We started to correspondent a couple of years ago and I got in touch with him and said you know. What are you doing because obviously overnight? The travel industry is completely imploded. And he said you know. I don't know how I'm going to pay my staff this month and that's just one example so the ramifications and repercussions are absolutely huge and. I think this is now really beginning to buy for people so yes I think it will come come as a relief to know that people working on this but I don't think eighteen months is going to be much of a on on the wounds for people at the moment. Because I think they're thinking how am I gonNa get through the next month let alone the next eighteen months. That was Chris. Smith speaking to Georgina Godwin earlier with a look now at the day's headlines here is Monaco's Marcos hippie thanks untrue. The European Central Bank has launched an emergency seven hundred. Fifty billion euros packaged as the impact of the corona virus outbreak. The pandemic emergency purchase BRO CHROME WHEEL BY Company and government debt across the euro zone in a move that reinforces the commitment to the euro. Germany has banned the far right group. United German peoples and tribes and police in ten states raided. The home of twenty one of its most senior burst. The interior minister said this was the first such action against the crew cab with links to network that claims allegiance to the prewar German Reich. Germany is stepping up crackdown on anti Semitic organization after deadly attacks by racist gunmen. And this year's Eurovision Song contest has been cancelled due to the corona virus outbreak. It was scheduled to take place in. Rotterdam and this the first time Eurovision as being cancelled in the events sixty four year history. It is years not confirmed whether vce contestants will be invited back next year those other days headlines. Now back to you Andrew. You're listening to the briefing on monocle. Twenty four now in many respects. It might seem vaguely ridiculous to consider historical precedents for the covert nineteen outbreak. All of us are adjusting to a reality. Which is changing by the hour but in terms of a combination of a sudden jolt to the global financial system and US presidential election. We don't have to go far back. At all. In two thousand eight as Barrack Obama and John McCain vied for the White House. Many of the grander ambitions were spiked by what became known as the global financial crisis which was prompted by a sudden bursting over an over inflated asset bubble. We'll covering both that election and the crisis from Washington. Dc At the time was Monaco's affairs editor Christchurch. Mack who joins me now at? I should specify the very far end of the table here in studio wanted. He's like we are to Prince's at some medieval banquet. Chris how comparable these two financial crises. Are they comparable at all mockby? A better question I think the financial crises are quite comparable. Obviously the cause of them is very very different but what struck me in thinking back to those to those days when I was covering them is there were certain parallels in one of them was That the crisis was not taken particularly serious to begin with and I remember being in the office when for example even the House of Representatives in the US Actually voted down a stimulus package for the US economy in a bail out for the banks That led to a massive tanking of the economy to which they responded realizing. Oh Oh dear. This actually quite serious. Let's approve something to get the economy back up and running and I think in a similar way here we've seen this sort of occasionally slow response to the virus and and now suddenly a severe ramping up by different countries that were not taking it seriously to begin with and the same with economic stimulus packages So there are very similarities. And the other one I would say is on level international cooperation. It was very interesting at the time Because essentially once things got in gear there was a whole new multilateral architecture that was set up at the time and I joined these g twenty meetings in Washington D. C. I in November two thousand eight and then in Pittsburgh and elsewhere and they really actually Beat expectations if you will in showing that the international community could cooperate if if it wanted to And this time I think they're too. We have seen a difference of course that many countries are closing their borders. There's been a struggle to cooperate internationally. But maybe that's now going to be stepped up a little bit. The G twenty is actually meeting. Virtually next week To consider the crisis in what they can do to respond so when might hope that they will be expectations as well. When one looks at the the presidential elections of two thousand eight in two thousand and twenty they do now have at least one similarity in that both Obama and McCain and now trump and probably biden will find themselves unable to make spending promises because everything is going to have to be recalibrated towards addressing. This thing when you think back to two thousand eight how did both bomber and McCain adjust to that well one of the interesting aspects of he compared to this time as well is Back then what I remember was or many people might not remember but actually ahead of the crisis John McCain was leading in the polls Because he had come out of Republican convention and he was actually. He had sort of re energized his base. He was considered a maverick So he was actually doing quite well and when the financial crisis hit not only did it of course impact the Republicans but what was interesting was. Even though Barack Obama was this young inexperienced Senator. At the time he was the one who projects a calm reasoned voice in the crisis compared to John McCain and actually the numbers in terms of which of the two candidates you would trust Flip does the crisis went on and people came to trust Barack Obama more than they did. The very experience lion of the Senate in John McCain So I think that is a lesson this time as well. We'd in this case of course have very experienced candidate and say Joe Biden versus Donald Trump. If that's the case Joe Biden has predicted very much confidence. That has helped him against Bernie Sanders quiet confidence in this crisis. The only thing that I'd say is interesting and different is the crisis is happening earlier here. So of course The crisis was still going on November. Two Thousand Eight. And so yeah. I was covering both rallies and g twenty summits at the same time and people were very worried at exactly the moment of the election and wanted to punish Republicans for it in this case. It's so hard to predict with this new cycle. And what's been happening with the virus where we're going to be in November? If Donald Trump has managed to The administration has managed to get this crisis somewhat under control. Perhaps he gets a boon from that. That question you raise right there or that factor of Public Anger D. Had very early days but how different might that be because in two thousand eight even though I think a lot of people myself not excluded were baffled by the intricacies of what had happened? In by the sums of money involved there was a general perception that yeah a bunch of crooked and greedy bankers had been allowed to get away with too much too long and they had pulled the whole thing down through Hubris and greed and if that's the narrative that takes hold and that's obviously going to play badly probably for more conservative parties but in this particular case it's who do you get angry with. You can't really get angry with a virus. It's just doing what viruses do. How could that possibly end up being affected? Do you think it's a very good point because I do remember very well in the financial crisis one as you say It was a crazy time for us. Journalists because many of us were frankly not economic experts and was a hard thing to explain I had to learn about securities and all of these different issues mortgages subprime mortgages and various things and try to explain I to the public. What was even happening In this case yes the virus is something. That's a little bit easier to explain. People have an understanding of it And yes it is harder to blame anyone individually compared to back then win the Republicans were very much blamed for for getting us into an economic crisis as the perception was Having said that I think you can certainly be evaluated on your response And that's perhaps a flipped back then when the response was quite robust by the Bush administration. But they didn't They were blamed still for creating the crisis in the first place. In this case I think the measurement for politics will be. How has the trump administration responded? Are People happy and comforted by what he does in the next few months to get this under control Chris Tomac? Thanks for joining us. You're listening to the briefing monocle. Twenty four they will be more on the financial aspects of this crisis on Saturdays addition of the foreign desk at midday London time. You're listening to the briefing weighing in at almost four hundred pages. The medical guide cozy homes is packed with everything. You need to know about making a great place to live. The book is filled with handsome residences. And all the contact. You need to make a home. Will last a lifetime and celebrates. The people know homes to be able to cope with kids. Dogs scuff marks to book. Knows a home Tony as good as a community? It's in the book. It takes you through the front doors of everything from mountain hideaways to modernise towns so cozy bio copy today on cu dot com You're listening to the briefing with me and Ramallah time now to take a longer look at the day's big stories with our news panel. Which today is the journalist? Mary Digest Ski. And Stephanie. Balls in London correspondent for developed both joining me not in the studio but as disembodied voices in my head We will start as we may be for some while with the obvious. Among the many areas of endeavour which will be affected by the covert nineteen outbreak. Is that of geopolitics though. Exactly how of course remains to be seen one looming potential crunch point is one of the worst affected countries. Iran where tackling the pandemic has not been made easier by the sanctions imposed on the country by the United States and other countries in an effort to curb the Tehran regime's behavior on a number of fronts. Mary first of all is too simplistic a response to say. The time is now to end all sanctions and let Iran access. Whatever help it can however it can when it probably depends on your judgment off won't Iran is about what the situation in Iran actually is. My view would be absolutely that. This is really heaven-sent opportunity For a rapprochement between the US and Iran that just been impossible largely because of US intransigence. Ever since the hostage crisis ever since the Iranian Revolution But it seems that The trump administration is responding in completely the opposite way to reinforce sanctions Which are putting Iran in dust. Date of medical deprivation and properly or mentoring the crisis which could in turn Lead to instability in Iran. Which would not be to America's advantage or anybody else's Stephanie. Is there an argument for that? Same question put the other way not so much. Should we just forget how Iran is behaving and help it out or should the argument? Now be put to Tehran's regime. What's actually more important to you if you stop doing what we want you to stop doing. Then you'll get all the ag like well it's first of all it's going to be very difficult to control if Iran is really a complying with what What they see three countries or the US wants to stop any work on On a nuclear bomb to be very simplistic but I think as just said they is the question whether there could be a kind of clever sanction regime which looks at the very dire situation of probably thousands of debts already in Iran because of the corona virus and sure that the supply chains for medication. For what is needed in this message. House crisis will be maintained and that would be then also Strengthen the moderate sources in Iran because I also think if this crisis gets even worse that will only play into the hands of the hardliners in Iran. Mary would these arguments are indeed? Are these arguments? I need different. If applied to the robust of the world rogue regimes a North Korea. We have as usual almost no idea what's actually happening with this. In North Korea bit it would be a considerable surprise to discover that they have escaped it entirely. Should it become clear that North Korea needs massive? Help should be provided. No questions asked well. I think one of the really interesting things is that you know if we were talking about this site. Two years ago North Korea would be treated as a threat to world. Peace as you know rogue state. It pissed me off All those things and the idea off Giving any sort of medical or emergency helped North Korea really wouldn't it would probably hardly have come above the parapet Today I think that the the position of North Korea had completely changed. I mean even though people talk about you know the the been entirely confirmed reports that Iran has been testing Its nuclear capability in the not too distant past nonetheless since the rapprochement with with the US initiated by Donald Trump North Korea has never seemed like that sort of threat on that sort of scale again so on the one hand I think it's entirely plausible That countries generally Including the United States might indeed of assistance to North Korea at the same time. It's not closed as it used to be. And it's not without Even behind the scenes communications. Which before completely lacking Stephanie. Is it possible that we're going to see? And I think we're seeing some of this already. A bit of an uptick in what you might call. Countries combining compassion with cynicism as in using. I'd as a means of delivering Realpolitik outreach thinking particularly of China which has made something of a show of delivering supplies to Italy and Serbia among others. Yeah that's definitely something that is for the Europeans especially for the European Commission. That is trying to coordinate the solidarity among the twenty seven member states but it is seeing that most member states now Almost exclusively looking at their own needs and therefore countries such as Serbia or indeed. Italy have now received help from China and of course people will always remember that people in the catastrophic situation of needing the most The most fundamental equipment that this will not come from their neighbors in Germany or their neighbors in in Austria or wherever but this is coming from China and of course this is This will have a long-term effect and it's not nothing in a way. It's nothing new because China has been very very good Spreading influence in all over the European Union obviously in other continents even much more especially in Africa but there is It is a tricky challenge for the Europeans. Not on the one hand. Well if you don't give help to your neighbor countries you. You can't be surprised that they're taking it from others so I think that it's now a bit more. Yeah push full coordination on the highest levels in Europe to show European solidarity again. Well let's move along somewhat and look at another issue which seemed all consuming really not that long ago but which has been bumped several hundred rungs down the ladder of importance brexit which you may recall being older age circa two thousand sixteen to two thousand nineteen the UK left the EU at the end of January seven weeks and several political epochs ago and he's Ju- to exit the present transition period at the end of December prime minister. Boris Johnson. Has Thus far swatted aside questions about extending that transition period a decision which must be made by June Stephanie. Realistically is that even a question right now. There is absolutely no way. This transitions not going to be extended. Is there well I. I can't answer that question. The only person who can answer that is Boris Johnson. And last last night at the press conference he was asked about that again and he He he again. Yeah Very Ah. He avoided answering it. But as we heard this morning. Michelle Baena the chief for the BREXIT talks. He is positive has been tested positive for corona virus. So you might also think just on the grounds of who is going to do the work. They have been negotiating with a hundred people on both sides. Have to physically meeting Just a bit less than two weeks ago in Brussels. They were going to be actually today in London from from yesterday. That was concert of course So a lot of people might just fill fall ill. and then. I think we have no idea. We have really thinking from day to day. We are kind of processing some day to day dimension of the Corona virus crisis. I cannot imagine that by June when we are maybe behind the worst-affected people will say well. Now we take a second hit and go for a no deal because the company a negotiation finished by the end of the year. So let's go no deal. I I duNNo. It's I can't imagine about well. I'll support a strong Mary. I may be becoming mildly crazed with counter. Intuitive optimism on this but it does strike me at least that the politics of this by which. I mean extending the transition would not be terribly difficult to manage if Boris Johnson were to announce later today. Look all things considered. I think we've got more pressing concerns. Brexit's going to have to be punted by a year at least would anybody by a few absolutely irreconcilable head bangers care well. I'm not entirely sure about that. I mean in principle. I agree with you. I think that In many ways The emergency has provided cover for an awful lot of policy changes And delaying the finality. Brexit could be one of them But I have to say that I was In capacity of reporter of course rather than any other capacity At the annual conference of the Bruce Group which are the extreme brexit tears A couple of weeks ago in London and the the interesting thing about that was that on the one hand. They seemed quite relaxed and confident The brexit was going to happen and therefore they won and I came away with the impression that they weren't really going to quibble very much about the small print of any agreement. They were now confident that it was all over No I think that if there were any suggestion. Any Question. Mock no necessarily over the timetable But over the actual fact of Brexit. I think you might find a resurgence of the Brexit is quite quickly and the last thing Boris Johnson needs even with his huge majority in the House of Commons. The last thing he needs is the possibility of an internal revolt that could That could increase quite quickly if it were suddenly felt that Brexit was endanger Stephanie. Have you made of Boris Johnson's handling and communications of this? So far he he. I mean any national leader right now is in an extraordinary position but Boris Johnson. It strikes me as slightly more so having made his name and made his reputation as a fundamentally unserious person He finds himself doing an extremely serious job at an extremely serious time while he he definitely is sending the worst crisis since Winston Churchill which was the Second World War and the tech of German the the rates of Germany on on London Hitler Hitler Hitler's Germany. I mean He. Of course he manages that well Every day the press conferences. That trying to be very transparent. But I think I mean if you if you look at Italy if you look at Spain Belgium my country Germany. The measures taken Assam more draconic. They are far more drastic. There is much more interference. In everyday life. People are not allowed to leave their homes in millions of people and he and the UK life is still going on. The schools are still not closed. And of course in in hindsight there will be a very very massive question for the government if they were too slow and if they got the wrong strategy because they said we must Try to mitigate this and they did a turnaround last Monday and set. No people over seventy have to stay at home. People with preconditions are not healthy But Miami my fear is that this was far too late far too little too late. We'll finally on today's news. Panel as more and more people become resigned to the prospect of a long stretch at home greater and greater strain has been placed on food retailers and the people who work in them who we should be making extra efforts to be polite to it has been noted however in London and elsewhere that while the shows of the big high-street supermarkets of being picked clean. Local shops. Seem amply stocked. Is this perhaps a time to think local like we're to have a choice and Mary? What has been your experience of that so far that that has just been mine where I live enlighten stone in east London There's barely anything in the big TESCO. But the small of the shop. You go to the best stocked. It seems to be well. I live right in the center of London. So there's actually only around me some small chain supermarkets and a few corner shops and I have to say that for the last week I've avoided going into either of them Really in the hope that lever to week maybe people get over panic. Buying maybe things will return to the shops But I'm also slightly Well I can't say on the one horrified On the other hand not surprised The ship taken a very sort of high minded attitude to themselves and about how they respond in crises. And they've given the impression going back to the blitz spirit and all that That EVERYBODY IN CRISIS EVERYBODY. British behaves in an absolutely perfect and commendable way and suddenly we see that this is actually not so The British are is prone to panic buying perhaps even more so Than Lots of other people. My sister lives in the south of Italy. She says that's been No panic buying with speaking of Down there and yet you look at all. The pictures of completely empty shelves You look what people are taking away from big supermarkets and you know the British are not immune to alarm and panic. Stephanie is there strikes me that there's a jewel imperative now forest to make an effort with with local shops local. Whatever else is going to be permitted to remain open? One is because it might actually be better for us in. They might actually turns out to be more available in the shop up the street rather than the big supermarket several blocks away but the other thing is those of the businesses that are going to struggle the hardest to come out the other side of this now does seem like a good time to support whatever is on now high street that we would still like to have on their street this time next year. Doesn't it well? It will very much depend. Also how strong curfew and I'm quite sure there will be a curfew at some point. How how strict it really will be done. I mean The the the truth is that actually the local shops where eyeless in an eating. They are very well stocked. I have seen a Monday morning. I went to the local Saints Period. Big Supermarket And Dad the shells were actually empty. So I do not panic at all but of course I I admit I go into a supermarket shelves empty. I get a bit of a. I got a bit nervous about it but there is no reason to think that we will not have enough supplies. Sometimes for a couple of days you will not get your favorite pasta by. There are worse things. I think that If we can we should support also local delivery restaurants takeaways But my fear is that at some point people will simply not have the money anymore to pay a takeaway deliveries and sorry. I'm just extraordinarily pessimistic. I see that a lot of people will be very Hicks. Hit Very Badly Stephanie. Balls and Meredith. Jessica thank you both very much for joining us. You are listening to the briefing. You're listening to the briefing with me and Ramallah. It is very far from the most crucial structure imposed on our lives by cove. Nineteen but it's also arguably the one which best illustrates how weird things have suddenly become. There is almost no sport around the world. Almost every competition that was in play has been suspended and almost everything that was planned has been postponed. There is one significant dissenter however the Australian football league the top flight competition of Australian rules football and one of the half dozen best attended. Sporting Leagues on Earth launched. Its Two thousand twenty season as planned within the last few hours although almost the only thing about it. That seem normal. Was that Kelton. Got Belted by Richmond if by less than perhaps generally anticipated one joined with more on this by my fellow. Australian Monaco's Nick Minnie's who is generally tolerable company for a West Coast Eagles Fan and is wearing his scarf. I wished to make that clear to our listeners. He's setup at the other foreign of our Studio One table wearing his stupid blue and yellow scarf with the stupid cartoon. Eagle on it Nick I'm very tempted to spend the next seven minutes. Talking about LAS preliminary final but Wasn't preliminary was when which was Gelo tip. You'LL REMEMBER MIND. Memory cuts off after we won the premiership in twenty. I have a very distinct memory of Jilani ending west coast season last year but but more importantly the AFL deciding to crack on wall almost every other sports league on earth has not. Why did they do that? They I mean I haven't given this specific raisin other than perhaps I guess to push forward and keep their commitments to both the players. I mean percent of players In a survey by the Players Association said that I wanted to continue playing And the League itself I think acknowledged the importance of keeping the league going if the fact that I had to make a few tweaks to ensure the safety of the players at least for the time being. It wasn't the usual opening day game in seasons. It has started with Richmond verses called at the Melbourne cricket ground at holds a hundred thousand people when full it usually holds. Its usually sixty five. Seventy thousand turn up on opening day. I mean this is Christmas in Melbourne. The first is the football season wasn't like that today was no certainly not. So so I guess. The measure of the legs in implemented and introduced. I mean for starters There's there's absolutely no crowds. That was decided weeks and weeks ago. following a directive from the government with with no gatherings of more than one hundred people But that also reduced The length the quotas. They're gone from twenty minute quarters to sixteen minutes so significantly reduced the the length of the actual game and also reduced the length of the season to seventeen rounds down from twenty three to sort of give them a little bit of flexibility to respond to any sorts of Changes and and it's funny that you mention one hundred people would there for the last game of the season last year. So one hundred thousand people there for the Grand Final Zero Day today in the exact same stadium there. There's a player who made his debut on Alaska so he's first game of football was with one hundred thousand people and his second game of Football. Marlin ticket today was to an attendance absolutely zero. That would he has. He has had quite the disorienting Royd. that one. What's your sense of how this is playing with our fellow. Australians I mean obviously sport is a huge deal in Australia possibly even more so than in most places. Football is obviously a huge deal People going to be glad and happy its own or I'm reminded of the arguments that attended continuing the game during the world wars. There was some people that we thought it was really important for sort of morale and social cohesion and others who thought it was You know frivolous and decadent and this time there is of course the health risks which must be attendant on playing a game which is risky enough to one's health at the best of times. Yes certainly I mean I think I think it's actually good I I I do think it's a good thing and the NFL is being very clear. The strength or league is being very clear that they have been following the direction of the state and federal health ministers and chief medical offices Never been talking directly with governments and and I've got the go-ahead from from all of those parties And the also said that is soon as one of the players and testing but as soon as wanted applies or an official or a staff member test. Positive four covert nineteen. They will postpone Postpone the the League and Coming Games? Which is why they have short in the season to give themselves some flexibility there but I think I think ultimately it has been a really good thing. We've seen an outpouring of people I mean. Obviously they can't be there in person but certainly across social media today I've been sharing photos of them watching on families. You know it's still decked out in their scarves Look much like my title yellow and Blue One and wearing right. Now we'll repeat just before we conclude this discussion the offer. I made on social media earlier. If you're looking for a sport to get into people seriously now it'd be the time if you tweet it a with a list of the qualities that you value in football club perhaps ones that are attended upon whichever team you follow. Now Pick your team and give you something to cheer for over what we hope of the coming months. Nick Minnie's thank you of course for joining us. You are listening to the briefing. You're listening to the briefing Time now to get a look at the latest business headlines. I'm joined as usual by Bloomberg's UN pots units all starting to kick off a bit in the currency markets. Now within the last hour. You said that he won't stop travel into all out of London. This will come as some relief in the world's most important trading hub for foreign exchange London as at the center of this massive market and we talked a lot about The big scene in the stock market also under pressure the Foreign Exchange Market. Well the biggest market by some distance six point six trillion dollars a day changing hands on the currency markets out. Of course it affects State they live So many things that cost the economy. Now yes they are pretty brutal market on a pretty day on the markets with liquidity. Drawing up nobody's everybody wants dollars at the moment because when markets are under pressure when there was around the. Nice certainly the case the moment people moved to safety and in currency That is all about moving into the dollar. So we've seen old currencies across the ball dropping against the dollar In the last few days the dollar index actually at a record high the moment yesterday saw the pound these as much as five percent and the dollar falling eight slowest level since nineteen eighty five in the region kroner. Nothing more than thirteen percent just yesterday so some pretty big moves on funny strange of the moment and we also have some early data from the US jobs market for all the US. That's likely to be to us this time next week. Yes it's really not looking very spoken. Monica before about some speculation as to what the effect on the actual call me would be vis Increasing threats And these numbers are looking pretty terrible so the US jobless claims was coming around about Two hundred thousand a week in recent months goes to the US companies being very strong In the last few years so right back in two hundred thousand across the entire economy. We had a couple of numbers out of States in the last few days Ohio. Not a big state said. It's almost seventy eight thousand applicants in the post three days Connecticut another small state says it seeing about thirty thousand jobless claims just in the last week. That's about ten times the week he told so an Illinois also the claims coming in about ten times they might have expected. I've seen about four thousand claims in the last two days So speculation number. See next week could be perhaps If it ten times as many as we usually see the house could be too. Many people Flaming job making jobless claims next week. That would be a pretty startling number so watch out for that next week. You in parts. Thanks as always for joining us. You are listening to the briefing monocle. Twenty four you are listening to the briefing with me Andrew Miller. It's time now to take a look at the morning newspapers. I'm joined by manacles. Fernando Augusta Per Sheku which is usually acute. We'll be looking at the morning newspapers from Latin America so far at least Fernando. I'm sure the contagion in the global economy is making a difference in Latin America but the actual contagion causing that so far not so much or do we just not know enough yet. We do know enough yet and actually a number climbing quite rapidly in Brazil as well and and as you can see on the front page of s three newspaper You know I it's ridiculous Image of rateable tonight when he was giving a press conference yesterday. Apparently doesn't know how to wear the protect the protective mask But basically the same joke. The headline is it's about time to open his eyes. You know because the way he's dealing with. This crisis is very clunky Only yesterday he's basically saying that his health minister is wrong He said you know. I believe it's his birthday coming soon to a party. And he wants to travel his encouraging more protests in the streets. Four his For his government. So it's it's really strange gender because you know you see all leaders from left and right so it's not a question about you know your political ideology. It's it's the image chosen there. It is President Bolsonaro failing to wear a surgical mask correctly. Indeed he's got it over his is you don't need to to To intimate appreciator of subtext to see what they're doing there but I don't know it. It strikes me that this is a global phenomenon as well that we. We're going to see quite a lot of populous leaders who've just always assumed that they're a simple explanations and simple solutions for everything running up against you know reality but you know. But he's losing support even among his base. You know because people do care about health but on a more positive note to have fully some Paulo here with me. The city of some Paul. I think he's doing a good job. Of course we have governors and mayors. The Mayor Bruna covers He's thinking is very seriously closing closing down. Most shopping centers have been talking to my family and friends. It's been quite strict. A perhaps not as strict as some European countries but they're taking very effective measures but again this is Brazil. You know have so many states. It is a bit. Decentralized is a little bit like the United States so in a way almost every state is doing a different approach So you know we have to wait and see but it's good to see that there are some people that are being more measured During this crisis as well but I guess Latin America at least has more examples of what to do and what not to do from the rest of the world than the rest of the world so far has it has to be hoped they can use those lessons usefully and finally. I must mention this. I chose a Dutch newspaper. The folks grant and yes. My Dutch is not as good as as you can imagine. Is this Eurovision story from your vision and a need to plug in. I mean I in your role as you revision desks chief. Obviously these extremely trying times here because your vision of course is not happening this year. First Time in sixty four years that the events not happening I. It's remarkable I. I I believe the event will remain Rotterdam next year and they decided to can so so because there was a talk that would be event without an audience. I don't think they wanted that So we don't always act from zero. We'll we'll we'll go ahead for next year. There's lots to be discussed but Andrew. You know we still going to have our chats and maybe people should listen to the show tomorrow as well. Not really any are. We Are we there. Fernando bracing our listeners. Who are worried enough as it is. I will remind you that. Tomorrow's global countdown is going to be Eurovision themed. You know maybe. Maybe you're right. I don't like spoilers Andrew. I don't see how any of this is helping check. Thank you as always for joining us. We will speak roughly at this time in twenty four hours. You are listening to the briefing on monocle. Twenty four You're listening to the briefing with me. Andrew Moolah. The law of Supply and demand operates on the fundamental principle that a given thing becomes more valuable. The less of it the is in our time. However one commodity in particular has detached itself from Com- completely from this dynamic fame. There are more famous people now than they ever have been before and the bar to becoming any kind of celebrity seems to have been loaded so far that anyone willing to make a big enough nuisance of themselves can step over it yet famous people dominate our culture and more recently and ruinously politics. If you're wondering how we got here you will not read a finer or funnier. Primer than dead famous. An unexpected history of celebrity from Bronze Age to Silverscreen by Greg Jenner. A historian of no small renown himself. Greg joins me now. Regrettably not in the studio but such are these times Greg first of all to elaborate on my hastily constructed thesis about supply and demand there. Why don't we just get sick of famous people? Why is the demand apparently insatiable well? That's a good question of what do we get out of celebrity to be care? I mean the truth is is that celebrity is a is an industry. It's an industrial complex designed to produce constant novelty. So it's giving us always new. Things are always happening every day. There are new things new people new celebrities new scandals but also Research Books Up to me four years to write it that she and I went through a large change in opinion as where I began to our ended up I ended up finding celebrity to be very powerful and important in shaping an awful lot of conversations about ethics and morals and kind of society. We want to be who we want to be as individuals and celebrities often form Quite a useful Sort of buffer. I guess But also in other ways they are exploratory. They are pioneers they push against the boundaries. They transgress And we either decide that. They've moved things on in a positive way and decided to change the rules of society. All we get upset with them and we punish them and cancel berm and yell at them and throw things at them so one of the things. I guess that's really interesting about celebrities that is really fundamental to who we are as people as a modern society and as a historian. I've tracked that back to the early seventeen hundreds. That's what struck me reading the book. Was You do talk about how celebrity itself? How fame itself has evolved and changed but is it fair to say you came round to the idea that what hasn't evolved or changed is what we want from. It is there. Is there something fundamental and constant about our desire to have people we can talk about? Yeah never really is. I think The word Feign for example comes from the Latin word farmer a FAM A. Which was the name of a goddess in particularly in Roman Culture And the poet Virgil talks about former but he talks about her as a monster. She this giant winged based WHO's covered in eyes and mouths and tongues and she never sleeps and her name. Pharma derives from the Latin verb fiery meaning to speak or to talk about so this idea of famous monster. That hunts you. Down is actually linked to the verb to speak to rumor to gossip to chat about and I think you know this is two thousand years ago. People Were Gossiping and rumoring even back then back in the Bronze Age and I think what we see now is is a kind of hyper inflated Technologically supported world. Where you know we can have so many celebrities in all sorts of different media and the technology of the Internet's and and you know I'm speaking to you right now. If the sky which is an amazing miracle of technology These things allows to have way more celebrities but the instincts to gossip about you know more. Glamorous neighbours if you want to call them that you know. The celebrities are kind of some sort of psychologists have said. Well are they a bit like Alpha males chimps and on primates is a kind of a some sort of instinctual biological thing and other sociologists said. Now it's it's a religious thing celebrities. Come from our instincts to worship things. I'm not sure I agree with either argument. I think we have always wanted to gossip about other people. Because we are social beings and celebrities allow us to enjoy being both snarky in rude about strangers and also enjoy wanting to emulate them and admire them and fancy them so I think there's a real innate desire that but societies over the past three hundred years have tried to harness that and capitalize on it and make money from it. I worry somewhat making dead. Famous sound like this densely argued philosophical tract and it has elements of that. But it's mostly not that it's mostly actually an unmitigated hoot. It's genuinely good fun to read and it sounds and I always mean this is a compliment like it was fun to write for all the all the time and headache that went into it but all of the characters that you dredged up from. I Guess Finds Primeval Years. Was there anyone else there. Anyone in particular that you you developed a special affection for yes. There really was A. I mean my favorite celebrity from history. The chaptered Edmund Kean Shakespearean Suspicion. You mentioned him with. He's just my obsolete favor he He came to fame about two hundred years ago in eighteen fourteen and his stories absent extraordinary he was he's the classic tale of rags to riches he goes from being completely wondering useless. Alcoholics are up to being the most famous person in the country in the space of about a month He has a revelatory moment where he gets on stage does performance and by the end of the night people in London are just obsessed with him and he's this incredible character because on the one hand he's brilliant. He's a genius. He changes acting and still to this day. Modern actors learn about him in acting school but he was also a terrible person. Horrible problematic foxy I went to swear on your show but like just imagine the kind of epithets I might use the describe this person. He really was awful to his wife his son to his friends. His Co workers and colleagues. He used to get his buddies together to go and boo any other actor that he hated or had a rivalry which is a lot of actors. he was nearly shot by his friend because he was having an affair with his friend's wife when he got to America. He was on the first ever celebrities to tour America. He went at twice in one thousand. Nine hundred seventy second tool the people of Boston trying to kill him Five thousand people stormed the ripped down. The list mashed adores and tried to him because he was such a just diva horrible guy and I saw fruitful him because From a distance of two hundred years I I kind of feel sorry for him because he had a very sad childhood but he was this problematic genius. We have them in our society. We have these great geniuses Kanye West People. We can have got what that great empty talented. They are pioneers but they also have these very difficult allies in these opinions. We wish they didn't. Yeah so keen for me. Is someone that I sort of have a strange fondness for but if I'd actually met it it would have been awful. Finally and very quickly. You are far from unheard of yourself as your own experience of being informed the book at all a little bit. I mean I. I am not a celebrity and I would absolutely hate to be a celebrity and I'm treading very carefully here my language because I feel I feel even the idea of being known because that's not really my show not something I've wanted to be honest I've ended up being a podcast host Kind of because it's fun to do but I never really wanted to be in the limelight. But yes I worked in a t shy kid I still do. Actually at show for children could horrible histories and I had some fans a few years back hoover little bit overzealous and they got a little bit too interested in my personal life and you know it got bit wearing a bit creepy and for a couple of days. I had the experience of what it must be like to be a celebrity and I really did not enjoy the tour. I ended up having to phone the police so I I think having written this book I changed a lot of mind quite a lot actually about a lot of things but one of the things that I did actually know going in that to be in the public eye and I work with lots of famous people you know in the TV the street. I am around lots of things we will have to leave it there. Thank you for joining Ted famous published by. Wfan that's all. The briefing was produced by Marcus Hippie. Augusta much lower in Ulan govern research by Charlie Germany metal and Paula. Donell studio manager. Steph trump. Go I'm Andrew Miller. Thanks for listening.

US monocle London Iran North Korea London Stephanie Boris Johnson Nick Minnie Monaco Germany Donald Trump Eagles Ramallah League smallpox Rotterdam Chris Smith
Smart Thermometer Data Predicts New COVID-19 Spikes; Renaming Military Bases

Here & Now

42:03 min | 1 year ago

Smart Thermometer Data Predicts New COVID-19 Spikes; Renaming Military Bases

"From NPR and Wbz I'm Robin Young. I'm Jeremy Hobson. It's here now House Democrats. Vote Today on police reform. Their bill is expected to pass, but reform has stalled in the Senate yesterday. Democrats blocked a bill drafted by Republicans Senator Doug Jones. Democrat of Alabama joins us now. Senator Welcome. Thank you appreciate the opportunity. Let's start with police reform. Democrats blocked the Republican legislation in the Senate yesterday on a procedural vote. You are one of only two Democrats who voted Yes to proceed. Most Democrats say. The bill was fatally flawed, so there was no reason to debate it. Why did you disagree well I? It's not that I. I disagree that the bill is written as fatally flawed. I. Think it is I would not have voted for the bill ultimately as it is i. just think that we need to have a debate on the floor of the Senate and I think if we had done that, you know the American people would have seen the flaws in Senator Scott's bill. Unfortunately, I don't think Senator McConnell wants to do that. He wants to make sure that people don't see that. In this kind of a bad place where we are right now with a Republican bill did not include a democratic priorities like banning choke holds. End No knock warrants or qualified immunity. Would you be willing to support an eventual bill? That does not include those things. No doubt I doubt it now there. That's not to say that there couldn't be some language that can be added to a bill that would strengthen the bill as as is but I. Think those are very very important. things that we have to talk about and I. Think you have to do that in an open and frank debate, and not just through dueling press conferences, which is what we see in the Senate today, the way to get something done is to put the language out there. Let's talk about it. Let's debate see. See where we can do it. One thing that I think was most disappointing. Is that Senator McConnell completely rejected any discussions any sending to judiciary committee sending to a ad hoc committee about partisan senators to try to work out these differences. We could have done that as well as believed. But he completely rejected that instead wanted to put bill on the floor that had only been written about a week earlier. Well, if the Senate cannot agree on a bill and Republicans say that the House bill is dead on arrival then. Do you think that it's possible that after all these protests in cities across the country that Congress will do absolutely nothing I, think it's. But I am going to be hopeful that that's not the case. I still believe that there is a political will when the United States Senate to try to get something done. It may not be as strong as the House passed bill or the one that's GonNa pass today, but I do think in talking to colleagues. There is the political will to get something done because I think we're at a moment in history, in which the American public from all walks of life, all races, religions and political persuasions are demanding it as you know, we're having a national day right now. Confederate monuments and you've supported some bipartisan legislation to remove confederate. Confederate names and symbols from military bases. What do you say to people who want all the markers of racist figures from the past to be removed from public spaces are where do you draw the line? I've always said that this should be a matter left to local authorities and the low and the public I think you start with where we are with the confederacy confederacy was with General. That took up against the United States of America and I think what the Armed Services Committee did a couple of weeks ago. It was a really important step in recognizing that now there are serious serious barriers to racial justice in this country. We're talking about housing. We're talking about voting. We're talking about healthcare disparities I WANNA see folks get so focused on names and symbols as opposed to the real barriers that are out. There I think that we can reach that sweet spot where we can do both and I think it's going to take some dialogue and nothing can happen overnight because there are other views at also have to be taken into. Do you disagree with people who are just ripping down monuments on their own I would like to see folks at this point. Go to their governments and give. Give these governments, a chance I as I said earlier we are such an important point in history, you are seeing the symbols falling left and right, and what I'm saying is let folks look at this I'm not saying wait, but you know I've never advocated any kind of violent action. Whatsoever I think that there are ways to do this and I think we're at a point now where everybody is listening and everybody is studying and everybody looking and wanting to make sure that we do the right thing that we're trying to do what's best for America? Let me. Ask You about covid. Nineteen Alabama is among the states seeing a surge right now confirmed cases went from fewer than twenty thousand at the start of June two more than thirty thousand now hospitalizations are up. Alabama is now on New York's quarantine list. Does Alabama need to consider rolling back its reopening? We're GONNA have to start looking at at least owned the local levels. I think Alabama did the right thing and we started out very slowly trying to reopen, but people were so frustrated and wanted to get out that they didn't listen to the second part of the message, and that is, it is still safer at home. You still need to wear masks. You still need to social distance and people just got out and they've let their guard down, and they see all of these things happening on national television with the President and Who are basically writing this virus off and they think okay. It's all right to do well. It's not all right to do. We have got to get past the political correctness of wearing a mask and get into the fact that it is a health issue. Will should masks mandatory nationwide? Do you think I? Don't know about mandatory nationwide but I think if people can accept responsibility. We won't have to do that and the places where you're seeing. Seeing the RAW. If you're seeing these spots than local officials, all take the bull by the horns, and do what is necessary to protect people will, it should be mandatory state wide in Alabama, then because it's seeing a surge I think it's. We're getting close to that. If folks don't start paying attention I don't know whether the governor will do it or not, but I think right now with a more publicity we're getting and we're seeing. The last time. I was at home and I'm headed back there today. there were more people wearing masks than I've seen in over a month. Because of what's happening, and if we can continue in that direction, we will be able to keep this under control. What about economic relief? We spoke with Senator Rick Scott last week. Republican, who told us that? If there is more relief coming for Americans would be at the end of July. Would you like to pass another multi trillion dollar relief package before then well. Well I'd like to pass another relief package before then I don't know what the dollar figure would be I wanted to pass something last month and I think we have to start doing something to kind of Wean off the unemployment compensation, but give businesses the opportunity to keep people on the payroll. That's the paycheck security program that I have with senator. Warner and others let businesses open up safe ineffectively and let the federal government continue to provide some relief so that we don't have another incredible dip in our economy. That is Doug Jones Democratic senator from Alabama senator. Thank you so much for joining us my pleasure. Jeremy Take Care. Well today the Labor. Department reported nearly one point five million more people file for unemployment benefits last week, bringing the total to forty seven million, since the coronavirus pandemic began battering the American economy in mid March NPR's chief economics correspondent Scott Horses here for a brief reminder of where we are and Scott one point five very high by historical standards much less though than some of these other weekly numbers. We've seen so. Give us the context here. We are right, Robin. The we're seeing fewer weekly claims now than we were in in late March and April but. It's not declining very much. The claims have been sort of holding steady in that one and a half million for the last three weeks, or so, and that sort of worrisome, and then on top of that you have another seven hundred thousand people who applied last week for the Special Federal Unemployment Insurance for folks who are self employed or Gig. Workers aren't eligible under the usual state program, so it's still very very high unemployment. We know that as of June six. They were north of thirty million people receiving unemployment, some four and a half. Million more people have applied since then so it's it's still a a really weak job market right now, and which sectors are being hit the hardest. Well the the weekly claims don't give you a whole lot of information about a wear. These jobs are being lost, but we're still seeing job losses in. Food Service for example and you know Senator Jones was just talking about the hot spots in in Alabama it's possible that some of the restaurants that tried reopening are now closing their doors again and sending workers away because they're just not getting a lot of traffic with the with the with the flare ups in new infections we know from. Reservation sites and so forth that there the places that have seen an uptick in infections in hospitalizations are seeing a downturn in restaurant, reservations and traffic stores, and that sort of thing so. We could be looking at a if if not a second wave of infections at least second wave in economic slowdown. Now, and we just heard Jeremy Senator Jones about the possibility of more relief, coming from Congress lawmakers you know, boosted the unemployment benefits during the pandemic that extra six hundred or whatever a week, but that money slated to run out soon. So, what's your sense there? Yeah that extra six hundred eller weaken unemployment insurance is due to expire at the end of July, and it certainly seems as if Congress is taking their time in deciding whether or not to extend that so so people who are receiving that extra six hundred dollars a week. Probably going to be in limbo at least until late, July know whether that's going to continue, and that has been really important in propping up consumer spending we saw. We've seen in the spending data that spending has actually held up better than it otherwise might virtue of those government benefits. Government benefits a really put a floor under consumer spending that otherwise would have created even. Even more than it did, and if those x six hundred dollar week in an insurance benefits go away. That's going to be a real hardship. I mean we're. We're talking about thirty. Five million people who are unemployed even is businesses are reopening, and people are getting their jobs back with the pace we saw last month. We're looking at elevated unemployment for ten months or more. Stuff and bureau chief economist correspondent Scott Horsely Scott us as always thank you. Glad new relic. In early April, we spoke with Inder Singh founder of Kenza. They make kids a smart thermometers. The ones that connect to an abso users can upload their health data to the Internet and make it available to scientists who can then track disease outbreaks as they start through clusters of fevers, because the thermometers are used at home days or weeks before a patient sees a doctor, this data can predict hotspots two to. To three weeks before the CDC can, it's been very effective for flu and now covid nineteen. When we spoke Kim ahead, already predicted the massive breaks. New York and Boston so months later with states reopening and yesterday's record daily high of new cases nationwide more than thirty, six, thousand more than the last single day high in April. We're checking back in with interesting to find out what he sees now inner. Inner joins us from San Francisco by SCAIFE. INDER, welcome back. Thank you for having me and I let's remind people how this works. You caused quite a quite a bit of excitement. I ordered my Kinza thermometer. It took a long time to get here. Because so many people flocked to get these because they wanted to be part of this data, but for those who are thinking. Wait a minute I don't want. Want my boss to a fever I. Don't want anyway. This is anonymous, right? It's just the information about a fever. Not who has it? That's right. Everything is aggregated and anonymous, so if you go to health weather, dot us which we launched in mid March. What you'll see there is fever levels across the country, the percentage of people that are ill not possible to identify individual based on a population level. Calculation like that. Well public health officials including Peter Hotels at Baylor in Texas. William Shatner in New York very excited about your data after states shut down their economies. Your thermometers showed that social distancing was working white. What were you seeing? Yeah, we're seeing within three to seven days declining levels of fever, it showed the people's sacrifices at home working people should know that they were helping to save lives, and we were. We were thrilled to be able to contribute that data. Because until that point there really wasn't a good data source to say. Is it working? This was essentially a real time data. Sources say it is working. That was closings now. Is Political Rally, summer parties. You know on May twenty nine. We saw that. China was having higher than expected levels of transmission So you know taking a step back just a moment. Our data is not just providing information about fever levels across the country. There's other components of that data. We unpacked the data and looked at transmission rates. How fast is illness spreading in a local area in similar to what you see on health weather where we look at fever levels and subtract out what you normally expect me. Colds flu were doing the same with transmission levels. We're seeing transmission levels when we're subtracting out what you'd normally expect cold and flu, and that is often indicative of Covid Nineteen, so we now have two different, but related measures to identify outbreaks early. And that transmission data may very well be even stronger signal in the even earlier signal, and we're publishing some of this information with academic partners, but that helped us to identify on May twenty ninth early signs that we were seeing infection spread Arizona, we also saw an announced on June ninth Florida and Texas. We're seeing higher than expected levels of transmission indicative of an outbreak. And last week we saw the same with Oklahoma and. We just to be clear. These bumps that you're seeing. We're more than nine days before the Cova case spikes in those states you're seeing the temperatures go up before people are getting tested before the testing is catching up with that. Yeah, that's right. We're seeing the temperatures go up. We're seeing the transmission rates. Go Up, and the reason for that is we get the people in their home? Home from their first sign or symptom of an illness. One thing that is a challenge in this environment. Is You know the healthcare system doesn't see mildly symptomatic spread we do. We get to see when someone gets sick, but perhaps never enters the healthcare system because they don't get sick enough and they may pass that to remember someone in close proximity to. Who might have no symptoms at all, but it's still a carrier in third person gets sick and finally get sick enough to enter the healthcare system. The healthcare system delayed in terms of the ability to pick up cases because of those delays to help your system sees someone. On average five to eight days after they get symptoms, but remember that's when they get severely sick enough to go into the healthcare system. They may have had a family member that gave it to them even days earlier than that and never got sick enough to enter the healthcare system, so it's all these delays that compound which is why outbreak is going from a flame to an inferno before the healthcare system can detective, and we get to detect it when it's still aflame, and the whole idea here is. If you can contain outbreak early? You have a chance of stopping and you isolated when you see an outbreak in a particular location in a state. Well, that's indicative of like well I need to start deploying my PPE's send the test kits in send the PPA and send the biologist then possibly implement social distancing areas, but in a in a more isolated geographically pinpointed way, then a Broadway right, and those are the kinds of steps that we can take as a system, and frankly we should alerting people in those local areas about spread right. Knowledge is power in in our experience. We've. We've been doing this for a very long time with flew for the past seven years Lou. When you alert people that there's a spike in flu, they take action. They stay indoors. They use disinfections more so there's multiple levels of actions that can be taken when you can detect it better so yeah I mean it could be as simple as a whole public health officials saying hey, we've got an outbreak here. We can see it because of these fevers that are being tracked so everybody beware can be that simple last week. Your data was showing rises in Louisiana Missouri Main Oklahoma. Since then has reimposed restrictions Oklahoma as you forecasted has become one of the country's hotspots, so look ahead. You know what are you seeing right now that we might hear about in two weeks to places that we're most concerned about right now that we're. We're GONNA. It's Oklahoma, Missouri those are the places where most concerned about right at this moment in terms of new outbreaks developing we remain concerned about taxes because we're. We're seeing increasing transmission levels there. We're not seeing those level off. So those are three of the places where you know, I'm watching it, I'm concerned. Can you see for instance the effect of a president's rally? that. We don't have the ability to attribute widespread is occurring and you know in. Itself we certainly are able to see state level illness. We don't have enough sensors in that particular state to really start isolating it down to very specific geographies. We need more. We need more sensors in the state to be able do pinpointed geographically precise outbreak detection. Is that reminds me you've given away a ton of these thermometers? They are for sale. Also at the website will link people up here now? Dot Org. What you're saying is you need as many people as possible to participate. That's exactly right. The more people to participate the more pinpointed weekend get with our with our with the outbreak detection. I'm thrilled that we're partnering with a number of States. Connecticut, Oregon Idaho and other cities as well Philadelphia announced us as part of the reopening plan. Doing a demonstration project as well and partner, those states to get more thermometers out to people including underserved communities and especially underserved communities who might care and treatment later, but that's right the more thermometers out there the better, the hot spotting abilities, and and just to put a fine point that this is not just a benefit for the communities for the health system in for the government. This is a benefit to the individuals right. You get to see you. You get the data you get to see whether there's illness going around your local community. You get tool to help. You understand how to respond to your illustrate. Thermometer connects into medical guidance system to provide us with age based medical guide, and again you see the data. If you participate you see That's interesting of Kinza. Thermometers will link you up to lots of information at here now. Dot Org Indoor. You've been doing this work for years and. And now scientists researchers policymakers are scrambling to get their hands on it. I'm just betting. That's a good feeling in the middle of pandemic. You know I'm sad that it took a pandemic to bring to light. How important this work! On early warning is! I'm thrilled that we survived as an organization to get here. I mean it's been eight years. We've been working on this day and night for flu and proving the concept so on you know. Know I'm thrilled that it's actually it's working, but let me be clear. People need to use the data. This can't be just research projects. This can't be projects that are in hindsight. We've a ton of more than one hundred fifty scientists and public health officials that are looking at the data, but what's unclear is who is using which decision makers are actually using the data to implement policies. This is not a big leap of faith. This is not. If you, see beaver levels rise in a particular area. You know it's an outbreak, and if it's above and beyond what you'd expect for cold and flu season. You know it's an unusual for today. That's Kobe nineteen and I WANNA. Make sure that politicians governors mayors policymakers are using the data. I can't imagine how hard it is for governor for mayor to make decisions that essentially pit. Versus lots and I can't imagine a hard. That decision has been made, and they're doing it on the basis of expert advice, but they're doing it without real time data to know whether their actions are actually having an impact and I wanna be clear they have data. It's available. Is that helped whether you call us? We will provide whatever data cuts we can use it. It needs to be used in this current crisis. This is the whole reason we started the company to detect predict and help respond outbreaks, and this is an opportunity for us to use the data to have a really massive public health impact, and so we're exhausted, but we're thrilled that we can help, but again the data needs to be used a cannot just be a research project. People need to be using. Don't make the Kinza thermometer the new politicized. Health weapon as wisdom mask. Inder Singh. Thank you so much, thank you I appreciate. Actors Tracy Ellis Ross is used to people talking about her age a lot and she's okay with whatever people say. I'm forty seven years old, and I'm the most comfortable in my skin I've ever been what when we go back to being twenty two. No, thank you the Black Star on confronting an ages world. Listen and subscribe to. It's been a minute from NPR. The call for change. The names of ten southern military base is gaining momentum in Washington, but then the question is what names might replace those of the confederate generals. They now bear Jay Price from member station W. UNC reports. When Larry Right was stationed at Fort Bragg, North Carolina, in the nineteen seventies, eighties and nineties. The name of the base wasn't a big topic, even among black soldiers like him. We didn't talk about it a lot, but we heard and here in Deir that there was a confederate general, and it was a confusion because we said well. How how did they get the name basis after generals? Generals that did not win the war generals who were fighting for slavery and a war against the US army, but times have changed and right now a minister and Fayetteville North Carolina City Council member says Brag, and the other bases across the south need to reflect that they don't all need to be renamed for Black military heroes or prominent black leaders, but some should if they're going. Going to bear the names of Americans, it needs to be a diversity of names that have chosen that we're reflect the country reflect our communities in which we live, probably one of the most diverse countries in the world, and that would do us prow Joseph her who teaches military history of the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill says Braxton. Bragg was a poor namesake even beyond the central. Central issue that he defended slavery, a slave owner in civilian life he was tactically competent, but a terrible leader, cantankerous, and widely hated by the men who served with him I wouldn't rank them he he wouldn't wouldn't make a list unless you to include a five hundred or three hundred or something, but if you ask me to give you the ten best officers in the confederate army. In their twenty peaking new names for old basis won't be simple. Anthony shore founded operative words and agency that helps develop names for companies and products. He says professional name developers have to accept that people have subjective and sometimes idiosyncratic reactions to names, so it may be that not every name could please every person that is a possibility, but we certainly know that some pads are more likely to lead to a broader acceptance and other pads are likely to diminish. That broad acceptance sure said the nation is in the middle of a sea change in which tolerance for racially insensitive names appears to be ending. He cited quake roach decision to change its aunt Jemima brand for example, as for the basis shorts had good options could include people who never served in the military, but whose lives embodied shared American values, or it may be more productive to move away from people's names entirely and think about ideals or attributes. The constitution for example. Could something like that also be applied to military base, and then, of course we add geography. Our country is home to countless places of inspiring and majestic natural beauty, and surely back to be a productive resource for every merge. It could be crowded. He said a good practice and naming things is to listen to all the key stakeholders and walk them through the implications of potential names, because when you're presenting names where you really doing representing potential futures, and so my job, when after his names is to help everyone in the room. See what that future might be if they go with anyone of those things and for southern military bases, the nation may be about to move into a new future. For here, now I'm Jay Price. There are just over four months until election day and polls are pointing to the possibility that Democrats will retake control of the Senate which might include flipping the state of Iowa where Republican Senator Joni Ernst will face Democrat Theresa Greenfield in November for this week Senate tracker. Let's bring in, Radio Iowa. News Director Okay Henderson High K high, and let's talk about the candidates. Joni Ernst senator. Joni Ernst elected to her seat in twenty fourteen. She is a combat veteran and she did an interview with Fox News. News this weekend was asked about protesters efforts to tear down statues including one of Andrew Jackson who owned slaves? Let's listen. We need to restore law and order here in the United States and of course we support protests, and there are still some folks that are out there. Protesting police, brutality injustice, but peaceful protests is what we are looking for dialogue, and what we are saying is just plain, old vandalism interesting to hear that on the protests. How is Ernst positioning herself in this race right now? Well, interestingly you mentioned. She's a combat veteran. She's also expressed support for the idea of renaming some of the bases around the country that are currently named for confederate. Officers and she has positioned herself firmly in the trump camp. She's part of GOP leadership in the Senate. She has been pushing the trump agenda and she is hoping that you know. Maybe this is a base election in. It's not about turning out independence and convincing independence that they need. And what about the Democrat Theresa Greenfield she's a business woman who's been talking a lot about how she grew up on an Iowa farm and also a loss when she was in her twenties, her first husband died. Here's a recent AD. I was twenty four pregnant at home with a thirteen month old when I got a knock at the door. It was the priest. My husband ride. A union electrician had been killed on the job. I'm Theresa Greenfield and Social Security survivor benefits. Help save our family so when I see Washington politicians take millions from Wall Street. And then threatened to privatize and cut social security I say no way. What more can you tell us about Teresa Greenfield? Well interestingly in the early phase of this race She's been attempting to talk a lot about the affordable care act, and you just heard her mention. Social Security two things that she is promising of elected to preserve the other thing about this. Is that The Ernst campaign is trying to really highlight Theresa Greenfield's past business record in the real estate industry. They've been referring to her. As Chuck Schumer's handpicked candidate, meanwhile, the Greenfield campaign is attempting to tie Ernst with trump so this in many ways could be as some of these Senate races are turning out to be around the country. On trump now he won the state of Iowa by nine points in twenty sixteen after President Obama won it twice before that. If this is a referendum on trump, how is the president doing there in Iowa right now? Well an Iowa pull. That came out earlier. This month showed the race with Biden tight. Iowa could again be a swing state and we have some polling statewide by the register Iowa pull. That was released on June thirteenth on this particular race. It showed Greenfield ahead of Ernst forty six to forty three found that for the first time Ernst. A job approval rating. Was You know what we below watermark was forty nine percent? It also found that about thirty nine percent of those surveyed didn't know a lot about Greenfield, and they hadn't yet formed an opinion about her. Interestingly, it showed that Greenfield had a huge advantage among female voters. She had a twenty point lead among female voters that survey. Is there a lot of outside money coming into this race. Well. Let's look back to two thousand fourteen. There was eighty five million dollars spent on the race that Joni Ernst won that year her opponent was sitting. Congressmen Bruce Braley. Only twenty percent of that eighty five million dollars was spent by the two candidates, and you can be assured that since this is one of the targeted races by Democrats that there's going to be tons of outside money coming in, and so I wouldn't be surprised if it far ECLIPSES that eighty five million dollar figure from two thousand fourteen. Just thinking about Iowa. You're making me very nostalgic. Because Iowa caucuses were one of the last trips that I took before all the shutdowns and I just remember crisscrossing that state and then getting on a plane. Through Chicago back home, and seeing I think one person with a mask because this was in, February. just at the beginning of Covid, nineteen the United States, but anyway we will I'm sure it'd be watching Iowa for the next many months, and leading up to this race and Election Day k Henderson Radio Iowa News Director. Thank you so much, thank you. Well a brutal murder in Guatemala this month has put the spotlight on tensions between Evangelical Christians and those who practice traditional Maya religion. The victim was a famous Maya Healer. An expert in plant medicines report Marie Martin has our story and a warning. You're about to hear disturbing. Of the. This youtube video shows indigenous Heater Domingo took chair, surrounded by fellow Maya villagers, and what a modest north and rainforest the fifty-six-year-old appears week as a white triggered man grabs him and douses him with gasoline from a plastic judge. The man known respectfully by many Stotka or grandfather. The mingle is transformed into a smoking ball of fire. People stand around watching some. Hold up cellphones filming the moment. No one comes to his aid. A few days later choke supporters gathered in the plaza. The of see too soon in the heart of what the Mullahs City they burnt incense, and did a sacred fire, an altar of flowers. s pretty good. That other Mingo choke was a spiritual guide. A professional a researcher says mourner a million. At the time of his death, Chuck was collaborating on a study of healing plants with Dr. Michael Heinrich of university. College London. He says chokes death brings to mind a saying in Spanish every Elda who dies just like a library that Burns stone, so what you see here is a loss of the wisdom of his ability to engage with the community T in terms of healthcare days after the killing what the Mullen police arrested for. Christians members of one family and charge them with murder. Authorities say the suspects believed chalk had been practicing witchcraft indigenous rights. Activists were Selena to you traces the roots of the killing back to what the mullahs civil war in the nineteen eighty, nor in were super beryl stolen left fake wins. Yes, get the whole conflicts or model. That was the time to excess Protestant is an especially evangelicalism began to play a big role in what the? When those who practice Maya traditional spirituality and Catholics were often accused of being communists or witches and persecuted. Renege Garard at the University of Texas Austin says even now a quarter of a century after the war ended some pentecostal cults, half a militaristic bent there is, she says specific variety of Pentecostals at practices thing call spiritual warfare. which is casting out demons. which say take to be? Minions of Satan Satan himself GARARD suspects. This was the motive for chokes murder. I assume that he. In his practice were the embodiment that they just five evangelical leaders did not respond NPR's request for comments. The local Catholic Bishops says it was personal and not religious differences that led to chokes murder, but human rights groups report that in recent years, nearly twenty indigenous healers have been attacked or killed, and although the accused and jokes murder themselves catchy, Maya Maya Scholar Muddy allowed to believes racism was A. A factor we have to think about the colonial legacy that has permeated indigenous communities and certain sectors into making them believe that our spiritual practices can be seen as witchcraft since the murder, another healer involved in the research with Chuck and the London. Professor Michael. Heinrich has gone into hiding so the curb generational Sheila's already is in a very difficult situation in terms of a very fragile social structure. Kollek racism or not, but that isn't element in it. Of denigrating a person's right to. See the world in a in a certain way, and that includes Heinrich, his right to practice religion and his kind of medicine for NPR news I'm Martin. The baseball season is usually a one hundred sixty two game marathon this year it might be a sixty game sprint played in empty ballpark's and what was joke of its thanking. Let's chicken on this weird year. In Sports with Mike, here knows a sports analyst hosted daily podcast the gist, it's dot com Mike I can't believe how much we talk about every week. We're weird. Urine sports weird year in year. Yeah, yeah, that's right overall well. Baseball took a lot of negotiation to get to this week deal between major. League, baseball players Corona virus is not going away. If anything it's surging. So what's the plan? Well. It is a detailed plan. It is a very well thought out plan there. You could perhaps nitpick some aspects of it, but here's the problem with the plan, and it's not that it's the planet that the plan will be implemented in the United States, so we've seen the Bundesliga in Germany operate successfully, and we see the Korean Baseball League, and if this plan were implemented in a country like Germany or Denmark or Korea, where corona virus was low, I think we should be very optimistic, but the problem with the Florida marlins playing the Arizona. diamondbacks is that it's. It's Florida and Arizona, and not just those two states, but we don't know where the pandemic is going to crest where it is going to go from here, remember in the beginning there were these bubbles that were supposed to be in Florida and Arizona. The Save States now. They are some of the worst states so i. do think I am not damning this plan, but I do think and I wonder if there is the proper acknowledgement that this virus could have a plan of its own, and I wonder how Major League Baseball is prepared to react to that. Well. Is that unfold there a Lotta? People who want to seize this moment to make some changes in baseball. You know Mo. the Games go on too long. Is there a sense that this might be an opportunity to experiment? Oh yeah more than a sense and that's part of the plan. They're putting a number of rules changes some of them don't exactly at the length of the game. For instance designated hitters will be used in the national. League and that's probably something. That was a long time coming. The National League being the only league really in the world that allows pitchers to hit, but here's a big change in extra innings. Player will start at second base so this will definitely decrease the length of games. This has been in the minor leagues their score in the first inning something over. Over seventy percent of the time when a player starts at second base without that than half the time, it absolutely will decrease the length of games. However, this isn't a tweak. This isn't a change. This is a massive overhaul and baseball. purists can be cranky and there are certainly a number of people who don't want change anything but I. Think this change is just so abrupt. It's been met with near universal condemnation. Maybe there are other things to do to lengthen. Shorten the length of games. We'll see how it goes. It's a great little laboratory for experimentation this sixty game season. And it's just so funny when you say that because it sounds like you know when I was in grade school with kickball. Okay, you can start on third base. You know everybody winks everybody else. To to Novak, Djokovic, he and his wife tested positive for Covid nineteen after taking part in that tennis exhibition that he organized in Serbia. No social distancing precautions lots of partying before he was diagnosed, top players got sick and he said of them. Hey, I can't tell people what to do now. He's positive. Those players going back to home countries. What do you think this means for these big tennis events the French Open the US Open. Jovic is he's an anti vaccine and he just doesn't understand or. Science and that might actually cut two ways in that. Perhaps the tennis community will say Oh, where the careful ones. We wouldn't take the risks that Jovovich did and I look at the plans for say the US Open and play. We'll start in Australia and I. Don't think they're being in cautious, but you go for instance the US Open Plan. They're going to combine that with the tournament that occurs beforehand the western and southern. Southern Tournament that usually occurs in Cincinnati. They'll be a twenty four game bubble. New York right now seems to be. The virus seems to be in on the decline, but I would hope they wouldn't look joke. Agents say oh. We're not going to be as foolish as that therefore will be safe, you could do everything right and be very smart and still not be safe. However, Jovovich did not do almost anything writer smart. Well as you said. When you think you have a bubble you don't golf is back. No fans, but some caddies for some top players have tested positive. Some baseball basketball football hockey players have tested positive. You know even though people think have these bubbles they don't. Yeah and that could be the wake-up call so a bunch of Philadelphia. Phillies went out for maybe a night on the town, and then there was rampant spread among them. We've just heard that members of the Colorado Rockies We don't know how they got it, but this is happening to them. The Orlando Pride of the soccer team. I think what it may be. Maybe these early warnings will be wake up calls, and maybe this will show that there is no acceptable amount of going out and telling yourself to take it casually. That said what happens. Happens when there is a big spread among a team and five or ten players, go down to take it back to baseball baseball these rules where they're going to have a taxi squads and Availabil- available sixty players, but I kind of get the sense that their plans a little like the union plan during the civil war. They're just GONNA. Play it like a war of attrition yet. I don't know that that could practically work if you lose so many players. How do you still have a season? Still have the team not not endanger others solely. Has got driving everyone to the history books. Mike PESCA here now. Sports analyst thanks so much. You're welcome. Where else do you get an analogy to the civil war? Here now is a production of NPR in Wvu. Are I'm Robin Young? I'm Jeremy, Hobson. It's here now.

United States United States Senate flu Alabama Iowa NPR Senator Joni Ernst senator New York fever Robin Young Theresa Greenfield Senator Rick Scott Senator Doug Jones President Baseball Chuck Schumer Oklahoma murder
Songfacts Podcast: Author Ken McNab on The Last Days of The Beatles

Pantheon

1:01:07 hr | 9 months ago

Songfacts Podcast: Author Ken McNab on The Last Days of The Beatles

"Saw. Pitches. And welcome to another episode of the Song Facts Podcast I am your host Cory o'flanagan and this podcast is proudly part of the Pantheon podcast network. If you're like me and are a massive fan of all things, the bales than we have such a great show for you today where would Mr Ken mcnabb who is the author of the book and in the end which details in a month by month manner the year nineteen, sixty, nine for this amazing band we focus mainly on the songs throughout this time, but there was so much going. On behind the scenes as well, that is impossible not to discuss whether it's the turbulence of the business dealings and their new manager Allen Klein to the rising star of George Harrison as a songwriting forest with the global zigzagged of John and Yoko Peace Movement we touch on at all. So stay tuned for a wonderfully articulate Ken mcnabb and be sure to buy his book and in the end. For even more on this often discussed time in vetoes lower here we have can magnum. Okay, can mcnabb. How. Are you today? You have good coach. Thank you very much for having me. Thanks for coming on song facts and I guess before I'm so excited. I could I've I've I've I'm someone who's probably a little bit older but I'm still obsessed with the Beatles and I've never really gotten to talk to a an expert like you. So I'm really excited about it and I guess question number one as a fan and just I've I've always just read musical biographies. I can't imagine if I had them all how many would be on my bookshelf but I've gone through so many and I just love him. So the fact that I got to read your book over the last couple of weeks has been amazing. But I'm always amazed at the details that go into it. Some kind of just interested in the how do you go about your research in an organization of a book like this? What was it like this? You had to become a in how to combine the qualities of A. Detective with an archaeologist innocence because token about events new. Half a century ago. So. I mean like you said, like you said so I'm in a room here which is surrounded by books about the Beatles. The most Retina boot bind in history. A. When you come to project you have to ask yourself to salient question, cody, which is s does the world need another another Beatles. And the. So of some fantastic jake. Some blow books and great pieces of walk I guy to evaluate. Taken very seriously the seediest skull us and these binds seemed to attract that level of scholarship from people so I pushed it with the view. First of all with it being ninety, six eight when I did it for the up vessels book was the Wind McCook new book as John Lewis. Would always looking for diversity. moments, you can attach something to so I took the view. Look at nineteen, sixty, nine through the prism old half a century. And perhaps using not. So not ideal of being a local detective and piece together all the elements from nineteen, sixty nine. And almost diety form Codeine obergefell diagnosed. With then people can people can then definitely de. Video sections the of more appealing to. So I thought if you could stitch together a nominative. Month by month non-active looking events happen in specific months. Then by during that, then you're compiling this. Through the entire year and by doing so you hopefully producing some kind of cohesive whole end of. You're such. I always say I Quixote Yoho by different get lost in translation. To an appeal to you. I just I've always thought that the Beatles the music is the music, but the story of the binders is really compelling essential for people. If you if you're a good story, then the beat told really the uninvited and not an aspect for being just a fantastic story on it so. I completely agree and I think that it's for me anyway for some reason, nineteen sixty nine seemed to be the year that for whatever reason I knew the least about and I'm curious did you find that? That was that you uncovered some things that you were like you didn't know going into it as someone who's studied the Beatles allowed. The idea of the idea of a sensuous at not to try and uncover some mystical revelation but to try a to try and peel by the layoffs. And you? Don't you to do this with any credibility. Court was to try and speak to people who ended binds ORB at that same either professionally of passionately because the problem with a bind like the Beatles is stories, become legends and legends become mets nine job to try dive down into the weeds died down into the the tangled roots of the owner Katya ends trying set three fight from fiction notably do that with the speech people. So what for me it was interesting was to be able to speak to people who were witnesses to history. Again. They've taken events because the problem is. There's been so much mythology attached to the bind. Nobody's it's only natural understanding of Paul, McCartney and Ringo. Starr can't remember key points of the past and what chance to see. Historians House executive. Approached it with a view to speak to people I spoke to testified people Ed, for example, men who? Would ended in Twickenham studios foaming alleged be Ed Don. Rushton. Medical Guide who stayed with joining Yoku through much of nineteen sixty nine. Yeah. A guy who is involved with the the get piece of John's so and when I spoke to these guys, why did find cody was they even after all taken even for a guy who you've laid everything that you can still cheese oh, fantastic stories. Yeah. I took the view the these stories when to. Than perhaps. Show. Because of the Mnuchin me they might be interesting for the people who who, who, unaware of absolutely. Yeah. So that was the challenge. goal in Saints Chine but something new to the table as not some mystical new revelation. You know I mean even even today you hear things like the secret recordings were gonNA continue after nineteen, sixty, eight I don't believe. Thanking. Will maybe come onto the Pizza Jackson, the be. Challenge and not was a goal I think. biolog- a monster tool of. Yes occupied here? Yeah. I I don't I. Don't know if there's another book that I've read. That's been this month to month linear. And I kind of want to jump into that. So it's opens in London obviously just cold London in January and The kind of. Right. Away goes into that the recording. Let it be in the obvious infamous rooftop concert on three Seville road. And What are some details that our listeners might not know that kind of took place behind the scenes that day without giving away the key takeaways from that he might get if you read the book. Yet. Important thing was just the the the. Assembled. avengers assemble the Beatles assembled and. January second ninety-six today to begin what on what would eventually become led to be that tape was cold. Get back at unofficial important here to apply some context to depleted I, think that's important. Thing here is context. Because they had not long finish the grilling stations for the way album when she's ever been able knew it is a double album and it took five months to call the way album. Remember how many songs over until maybe twenty sewn. And the really draining expedience. Here they wear west and two months later back in the studio in the context is this. Event Diagram Cody if you imagine Van Dyke on if we can go back to when described as. You can imagine van dig-. On. With the Beatles in the middle of. John Lennon Paul McCartney Joe China's Rangel stop in the middle and shooting off in various directions of these diagrams. Diagrams can consist of a issues business issues. Pass no issues and simply maturity issues. But the coin cakes is by the time they arrived bite in the studio. I should save Paul McCartney's behest. They were professionally a passing away exhausted liberal judge drained. Copy foam account is he is relentless Workaho Hallway. He has an incredible work ethic. UNQ- arrive by mister domain. Music. Spoke to him. WHO PLAYS WITH? said. McCartney's tooting. Should you a bind in eighteen nineties and he told me music just poor? Help, he has almost like cups. So you know he would arrive with nine, hundred, sixty, nine yielded highest some great songs. Under the Beltway for example to be sticking. Woman Wayne. Lewis kicking island. Two of us. But the other three of suffering from capable only attainable leverage because the religious the restocked point where. The other things happening in the latest being toys, not necessarily for George George and Ringo we'll certainly for joining George the number one priority, but he'll you how. Sergeant Major McCarthy throwing them into late winning team. Because he thinks it's important to. Keep the bind going to maintain. Productivity and but it was difficult another three point because there's a say a dreadful lethargy had begun to ten for all sorts of reasons. There's I mean there's all these everybody's not going to be on the same plane creatively all the time. So of McCartney's doing that I mean who can expect to be able to keep up with that and you know they were obviously under a lot of pressure from the label I forget exactly what they're deal was, but they had to produce a certain amount of music every year so. Might not be challenging for Paul to do that. But then you're also going to have these egos coming in and that's a lot what you talk about in the book of. You know I wanNA have this song on and I think one of the interesting things that I noticed is the precursor to kind of what became the Abbey Road Suite was these combination of songs which they kind of started with. majorly with a day in the life, but then they really got into. With. I gotta feeling. I think that that was a McCartney and Lennon they just said, let's just mush these together to very distinctly different parts without specific does on Tuesday, songs been fused together and they. The. Day is obviously out good example and an as a great station. When in Macau is ability to bring to different parts of a song and a Nissim together to provide to produce a credible. You mentioned the Abbey road sweet enjoys Martin had long time been urging them to consider moving in a more symphonic deduction. Yeah. you know this is the you know heavy wrote you. Know you've got fleetwood Mike storms the WHO. Zeppelin of taking off your medic I. Think you've got the Butterfield butterfield buying. I am butterfly at all these groups on the in a much heavier focus and the Beatles could easily compete with them without any problem and essentially. An ambulance we actually. lately, and it works really well but you know such was the Such A. Between joining poll out PD, for many other reasons that you know it's difficult for them to be on the same page. Even musically I mean one point for be rude, which is course a great album and the last love letter to but went point just to illustrate who. Who Float thanks when when point wanted all his songs to be on one side of the album? McCartney songs could be on the other Kosheh bats just impractical I mean. Say the beetle democracy by ain't. GonNa walk at all. So, we get a common sense Eventua- came through. You know I have the the the mainly in the form that we all knew in love and bridges show should the difficulties? tehmina mainly is a is a top ustry of again a whole load of songs that had been landing for quail actually some of them, some of with Bipasha. India. Sixty eight mean Mr Mustard. And a saint, Louis fragments even knows an argument for saying the throwaways. Somehow thanks to them. Incredible musical genius. They were able to piece to go of this jigsaw. into. What is an incredible piece of what it really is? I think it's probably my favorite whatever it is fifteen sixteen minutes of music that they've put together back to back at one of the things that you mentioned the book is that. Lennon McCartney are. And I think this is a quote fair teen around in their bottom drawers for decent material. And I'm wondering what do you attribute for being the main reason for this? I think in Saint Paul McCartney always had material. As I said, you know he's he's got to be one of the most prolific song rates of stole possessions of all team. beyond beyond reasonable argument. Jordan was struggling I. Think clearly. An just a personal opinion because it's no secret that he hide ahead problem mid nineteen, sixty, nine I think that it did stay me his leading creativity to a dignity explain why? And also affected his behavior and. I always think of join PD cody is like being volcano trump denise. Because you've never Kuwait sure what John Lennon you're going to get. Results of these. Was More than doubling ahead when you know I mean Don Is a valuable nomadic can ACTA. WHO Don't know actually the eight in the old nick sequence for two thousand, hundred, one, a space and he was a famous maim outaced. So if you look at two thousand, one, a space over the ape with the club will by dying astonished. No. Amazing really. And he and he would tell me stories about and. Candid. About the difficulties the and hide with heading and the reason they may be staying creativity and a saints was because if you take weight come together or even if you look at some of the songs on me on the mainly, let it I don't think the fantastic. Come, together as one of the most popular and enduring bittel tracks of old team. got. Just. If you look at the lakes. Visible we've been to. One. What the hell he's talking about. I mean, you know in nineteen, sixty, seven not can of that kind of Happy Gopal. Did was restricted like holy script. But by nineteen nineteen, Sixty sixty-nine flow has weathered the vein and people were looking for something a bit more what. Shall we say? Eb, nor can hear people in the bike goes eight. Wow. Don't tell me. He's criticizing John Lennon associated. No I love join you think he was beating hot of the Beatles I. Really. And without him the. Bind. But if you look at some of these, what from eighteen, sixty nine. And, if you take up song I, want you she's so heavy, I think there's only fifteen one. Who? After. Designed does not mean necessarily that he was literally Bite Rob two point. The flip side of the argument is. going. He said everything you've wanted to say endless safety once. So what's your problem may is being extremely debate in what was an extremely votto. So what's your problem? If he says in theft eighteen months and he says thirteen months Joan cage doesn't use anyone could. So you know. I I. Mean I feel like you can easily argue that either way you can look at that and be like, yeah he just kind of slacked off had a good riff and decided to just put some words to his came up with thirteen or He got this really great message of love across thirteen words. That's pretty incredible to so just to the Lens that you look at it through the absolutely two ways of looking at another good example, Sun King, which is very spa slit Clinton that does not mean does not mean that he he run out of ideas. Or just plain simple fact as you say, he said all in the ones that he wanted to use. So so you know. Can. Stay tuned for more song packs podcast right after this. Back. I'm glad you brought up come together because when I was putting together the outline for this conversation I went to the song tax website where they've got they've got like truthful things that have been proven better actual song facts but then underneath they let. Know fans just go off and just put in their interpretations and if you go and read the thread for come together, it's it's pretty incredible at some of the people have to say about that. I want to jump over now into the what's going on with George during this time because in the book you write about George was writing some of his most notable stuff which I think is is pretty clear but was being treated as a sort of younger brother by Lennon and McCartney and I'm just wondering can you expand on that a little bit for us? Yeah absolutely. My I. Think Nineteen Sixty was an extremely pedia enjoy Johnson's. A. Jones was adopt costs coming up in the end stage real in nineteen, sixty nine. On the album especially he had, he had Mike at town weeps. Sweet Which I still think is the one beetle try cody which I think even though gets better with age really think it's not good. Became I hear I just late love even more but George had always been treated by joining poll as an economy class beautiful simply because he wasn't. Any wars. In their league is a songwriter. Joining poll where the heck fight today, you know they were the the the beetle building in a sense. George Beginnings maybe one of two soames album if he was lucky being won't change Johnson producing some really strong. By the dame, Nineteen sixty-nine comes up he has something may maybe up to them to songs and he's bottom jaw. He knows some of them are very good but it's very, very difficult to fame space on a Beatles album for three principal later. Yeah. But as ever been annoys. Georgia's contributions to. Are Simply Standing Yup? Wilno. Here comes the sun and something which many people we don. Actually maybe the actual in the album. Yeah. Something say yesterday I think. Is the most. Is the second most covered Beatles, talkable, Jane. which for the fiscal orientated was the hottest Houston eight. Sure. Is there any truth to the quote I've heard this in the past and I'm wondering if you know of this quote, I think it was Sinatra that said something along the lines of well, that's the Best Lennon McCartney song that's ever been written and it was like the most like. Best compliment that George Harrison could got being called a Lennon McCartney song in that time. is absolutely giant kit and so soon after used to always introduce song you know A. Great Song by when McCarthy. And of course, George would be setting quietly seething undecided lanes. Any dead code the greatest love Song of the last fifty years. defined by thank obsolete But You know if it's a great piece for George. Corey about Georgia's tape. Because he was coming on as a musician. He also had the respect of other musicians notably bill. Who with whom he had green affinity and a great friendship, and also, of course, edit KLOPP's if you take. If you take. If you stood away wrote music's most famous Manezh Twat. With. Exactly. If you compare that to one side. So you know he has has. Is Morale was extremely good. He was very good place on he didn't. He was overweight the least committed to the bind the Molin point because he knew the in a new, it was also exploring. Of Indian mysticism no, he's life was taking a definite bothell sense but my I do have asleep CD of boom in nineteen? Sixty. A. vis-a-vis opioid. Because I feel that. Will be would I could live with Mike slopes overhaul of quoting. That's kind of clear. You kind of touched on that a couple of times in the book. Yes. I try not to get too observational politics too much. But by my my point is Hind Lennon McCartney been able to cops of egos just slightly and Concetta went up to the songs George, hide the eventually ended up on all things must pass which I still think is probably one of the top three solo albums Otane the. Than I think it would have been saying as the greatest records ever even a song all must pass. Course is when you look at the weddings digs all over the place. To other Beatles Jas Antilles. Cutting. Sands. Of. Fulfillment. And so perhaps later, McCartney, when looked the weddings for thanks most price. Absolutely said I think we will pass and it's a shame because you know the great songs as a couple of other ones for. Tokes. Winded, I'll lose your friendship. Completely pull and ended up on these solo. These great songs and all things must pockets. The Beatles is actually dead. What come on in the Chicago anybody WHO's have the dishes on Youtube? Dreadful. Weather today at a thirty unfortunately punctuated all sanctions on most of the sessions for to be. Ashamed because does say George been given a bit more room and I'll be rude than you I think it would have been okay and it's interesting to know more than context quoting that if you look at spotify and if you have to ask somebody what is the most popular Beatles track on spotify the might come up with hey, jude the let be you. She loves you the most popular spotify s fight here comes the sun which courses jokes hunted. And what an amazing thing to write such a? Just stand alone happy optimistic song in the time that they were in a kind of shows what you were touching on before of him getting out of the chaos because didn't he went and spent some time in upstate New York with the band and Dylan. Kinda saw like wow this is like very free way of making music I'd like to be a part of that and I think he went he was in San Francisco in the summer of sixty seven for a little bit too. So he kinda saw some of that flower power stuff. He's got. So he's got all these ideas going on in his head. It's like. Going to work for him was terrible going home to London in like working with the Beatles was just like this is just stressful. These guys are at each other's throats. I'm not getting the respect that I feel like I should get in it's just really interesting dynamic editing. Yeah absolutely I mean when he when he when he arrived by in London to begin what can lead to be a nine, January nineteen, sixty, he hides his you speak spent some time with the bond with Dylan, and he loves the collaborative approach to making music which is. Very flea you know very much could minded as himself. He arrived back in London. Within two days. He described. Back in the winter of discontent didn't know George, schick speeding, but then you go. Every school day. And did see that he said distributor is. Back, in the winter of discontent on within within ten days of being back in not situation Jordan walked away from the Beatles either dreadful. Everybody thinks they had rightful row with with Paul McCartney over. In history who foam is a famous notorious scene with you know the arguing over Guitar Thanks. George walked into bind because he had with. Snow can make he had over join an again by speaking to people who live have the. Able to apply some Betty Betty. An unusual relationship with John Lennon it'll. Look talked to join join was all done what more wealth ice but Benicio Sixty Georges go in mind he's all of them is going to be you know these guys had been together for so long cody and had been mushroom growing and say they'll be to walkers and by the time it comes to nineteen sixty nine you know yourself you know you don't always hanging the guy, some highschool your lives have begun to veto for different today, Kim Siri troops but on the other could be interested in the horizon. And George. I. Think you said in the Beatles Anthology you know he said if A. If this isn't for me. If you I'm going. He left under frantic discussions I mean lending make some ability sarcastic a will get edit can. Eric, Clapton's GonNa join the Beatles Yeah. I shows you a conversations to try and encourage joint to compared George to come back into the fold but. George was you know he had seen her other groups at what? Later? The nine hundred, sixty nine that's interesting because he actually went to with Delaney and Bonnie which come from nine same function head of the by way of approaching music. and He loved it because you say the beach bubble as much more democratic process an a much at the bottom line is much more fun. Any kind of cherry picked up my sweet lord out of that too. Didn't he? Yes. Yes I'm wondering now because you do a great job of intertwining everything going on musically. The business side of things and we're a songs podcast organ stay on the music here for the most part but I really really am curious of your opinion. Do you think that Ellen Kline. Who became the manager or was it some other role? It was the manager, right? Yeah so he becomes the manager he becomes like in charge of other business affairs at it's three versus one with Paul sitting out on that but is it his is he is he the main reason for the demise? Of Vinegar Question I tried very hard not to apportion blame is the most famous. Questioning wrote music estimate. Who Split her split up the Beatles. And I've been Bene- careful not to apportion blame. You know Yoko. Easy target. Neighbor Kosher. Primarily because. Women. I believe for the sake the she she was specifically Allen claimed again, just apply some belief contexts was the manager of the rolling stones at type. Of bishen voice to. Invested, Comas Gate the Beatles. On. Ever since Brian will ever it stayed had died a ninety seven of nineteen, sixty, seven, the beach. Businesses were And they had. They had fun company Apple Costea jobs a lot of money. On. An apple as kind of what they described as a waste of colby as A. Loss of show. Biz artists to get a fuss wrong on the lineup. But. With apple was begun to lose so much money even allowing for the endings that by the time of Johnny sex eight La Sixty, nine, Nimbus aging so much money there was a serious. Concerned. The Beatles could go bite wrote. Yeah. John Widened famously gave an interview which he said he'd be the last fifty. Which is not James. No No chickenfeed. The financials were going south. So they needed somebody to come in and run the business and these guys. We have here a bass, Guitar Rhythm Guitar Lead Guitarist, and a drummer. They are musicians coating, your nope businessman exactly the the idea of playing businessman. But those are terrible naive attached to not because they are not skilled in running corporate entities. So they needed somebody to come in and run a business empire and Alan claimed when you have when he had Lennon's coot than he setting in as a coach since office in a New York. Rubbing behind with Glee because at that point, he says one what. Gotcha yeah. Thanks. He thinks that has opening to be able to go to end and make a sales pitch to the Beatles old photos of. That he's the guy who can saw. The tangled Arcadia in finances. So he comes to London and he makes his pitch. And our clay as Betty what in a Blue Cola can a guy? You know he wasn't that much older than the? Admit it made it made a world money for other and a Medical Sam. Cook. So kind handsome Kenneth. Pedigree in endings ought to solo but also very rough around the edges going into you know kind of talk into these what it sounded like in the book anyway was these really posh London business elites. Yeah. It means very abrasive character you know known since your video incongruous guy, you know. What you guys. Tuchel neck sweat yes. Actually he actually smoked pap- I mean he could have come from a different. Yeah. When he made these sales pitch to land. You know they have a lot. They had the will of shaved. Into severe notable booth orphans can both lost their mothers very young. They had a low of a bike roads oddities. When it was an easy mocks guys like Klay above a hustler. Joined swiftly went over by claims, but I don't you with your weight. And of course, joining been so impressed because. Clean Dementia which was you money. No told Glennon that he would make Lich even more money than closest Atlanta. You. Know. I was won over by. By claims of Bliss of sales pitch. So he's landed then goes to Georgia. Rangel. and. You know. This guy. He's the guy for me I think he can sort of finances I generally speaking because join voice defined to lead to the bind George Angle cannot tended to fall. By company is a completely different situation because. Paul McCartney l'Ouest. Our NKWAIN from the start. He was a cook I everything every every fiber of these body told not to trust our coin. So at a business sense over sudden one corner. of Mr Lennon Mr Hodson and Mr Stop and then the other corner you have missed copy a nail diametrically opposed to each other over the appointment of our Queen is the Beatles manager. Copy proposed annot And they'll tend to voice he favored his. Name his future in laws which was lead. Join Smith. Come from you know who have their own the entertainment lawyers in New York very successful. With an astounding pedigree in show business in entertainment on he he favored then coming on board to try sort the Beatles finances, and of course, the Eastman's could not have been more different from coin. You know because they've leak Park Avenue Privilege, you know the An AAs video contagious on. You couldn't have been more different than the Profanity Laden Mr Clayton? You know whereas the dead things To the manor born fashion. So these these diametrically attainable dichotomy had said between them in a business sense and of course, it seeps into the music seeps into the personal life. But if a hot too hot to apportion, blame the I view our coin quiz as the Demon King of the Beatles Story. Because he was the one who pay slated McCartney into into. Opposing enough and and he didn't really come good in his promises because you know. In a business sense, the most control was on salt publishing catalog northern songs they lost to city consulting would have been up for sale in the summer of sixty nine. They also lost the opportunity to to buy names always another company attached to blind abstain. which could could have made them a lot of money Clayton guilty of false promises Bush never came to fruition. In the book a love of course, in effect in the Book Cudi. If you look at events hop into Johnny Sixty nine why phones voice the sometimes as the consequences of those events would not become clear until maybe four, five, six months turned mullane. And the involvement of our Klay on his ability to deliver these promises and piloted on the day. The Jordan. Actually a waste, the bind. Game of hunter joy all the evidence points to that, and it's more than just landed. Say don't the other unseen forces played come onto the board later in the year but they all day link to happen alien the A notch. Wife's important to draw threats from one month to the next. Throwing of BEACHELL PEBBLE INTO PU and Emanate from. It really is I mean. That's kind of the as someone who had like A. A decent history of the Beatles I've read another Beatles. Biography that wasn't as like I think one of the things that you can do because you're focused on the specific time is so detailed with it but you know I've read other ones. So I had an idea. So something like that would happen where I read something from February and I'm like, Oh, I wonder if that comes back to us with NYC October November something like that and sure enough it would one of the things that I think is really apparent because if you're a fan, you're going to read it fast but then there's just so much going on this. This is just a year full of action and it's just like They're in the boardroom having these major arguments. The next day, they're all in the studio writing an amazing song. The next week. There of getting married and they've got they've got weddings going on there traveling all over the mostly. Europe. But you know all over the place and it's just like these guys were so busy and obviously I think that that's wrapped up really well in a song like the belt of John and Yoko. Chance. ALMA. So let's veer off in that direction a little bit and talk a little bit about. What was going on outside of the scenes with John and Yoko their marriage they're in their peaceful protests that they were really trying to. You know they were using their. Public Image to do a lot of good. Yeah. Absolutely. You know ninety sixty nine was the year will join landed and Yoko Ono became probably the most famous celebrities in the world. Not. Not, so much for 'em the music because joins. Political Activism. Because obviously year of give peace a chance. And it was the year will join. Innocence became a pied paper piece for the youth culture. On a very important part to play. I, mean you mentioned about joining Yoko you. is going on a business sense. COMES, back to the music at an an an in the case of joining about joining Yoko Joylin ahead of incredible ability to compartmentalize these emotions. Before he. Had A terrible argument optical over business and yet the next day he comes out say at post hosts and say. I need to call right now? Yeah. George wasn't there. He was the country Rengo was the country really the bombing of joining. York. Who is just the two of them I watch really whale. So that example of yet again for all of his opening. A business sense that they will still be able to come together the PUN intended. To try and walk something musically. But but John Wayne is poetic of joining you'll used. Of Cain to use the celebrity. A note to form some protests? Thirteen head in a sense. and. It was a pivotal year because you know, ninety sixty, nine, eight Soviet tanks rolled into the Vicha you had. I in Beckley in America certainly potus. On, of course, the the public disquiet over the Vietnam War was Louis and apex and America was a terrible critical in terms of use culture and I. and. Young people protesting no just over Vietnam separate. So Bisley and John Wayne was able to use a celebrity to is as a major. A major influence trying to persuade walks politicians perhaps says, no, the we a signal pots. And it's interesting me. He's famous for the which most people think just crazy you know. When I go to bed for the week F- epecial and when frostbitten happened seven days after the wedding Gibraltar in mob sixty. Of course, the place invaded to come and see them spending. We can bed, and of course, facebook or Nigel who'd wait and I. Thought, they were going to see some kind of copulation taking place as that's going to happen. But. Apple be joining. You want climbed. Gordon, the message of peace on every newspaper in the United States newspapers for you know the most effective method of communication. And of course, repeated the take in Montreal in June July nineteen, sixty eight but you know and Medicare especially sexist into and univer. Think they were. Treated as a couple of eccentrics and you would eccentric as an awful God performance office. America there were treated much more seriously. As threat right. Yeah. The celebrity was given. A much more. Effective platforms saints. I it's interesting to note the in November and one of the great peace protests of Vietnam. Has something half a million people singing GIF piece of chimes say use. A very effective demonstration one mind's ability. Happy I shouldn't have started to sing it. Nevertheless it a very powerful moment. because. You know people in television digging, American magazines of seeing images of children. New running during the streets naked covered the napalm bombs. Yes. No, no kicks no good and here is John Lennon in a song trying to be a CVs advocate for peace at the end of the Vietnam War and as I say half a million and may even million admiral for told my head. Say Deflate host for Richard Nixon's. You'll hunting donen sade. Unfortunately for joining you know he's poetic to. A guarantee him in Richard Nixon's black book man of course, a terrible issues during the lane with regard to immigration. I think John Lennon typically in nineteen sixty eight as a political activist. Gotcha he had audiences awakes of Pietro in Canada. Young. gung-ho quotation and all of a sudden a begun to Kate Landon seriously. He wasn't just a crazy crazy Mokpo in a much more than. A and also he was injured for politicians. To jump people you know and and it was important and I think he's poetic away I was team. was unusual part of these. These career. Viciously. So much but an eight, sixty nine when you talk to break. Even political activism. Heritage define the time to do all these things exact yet at the same time produced to pretty good albums. Just so much going on I mean you could be exhausted just taking pro you really can and the fact that is battling a you know a drug addiction and all that kind of stuff to he's got behind the scenes that you touch on the book. He's got legal battles, not only within the band, but then with Yoko and trying to like get her divorce all settled. And I mean just the the mental capacity able to do with all that is incredible to me and just you know the simple message of just give it a chance. Have we ever? We've always given war a chance trying to give peace a chance. What if we just tried as raising a question? It's it's really phenomenal and it you kind of touched on this a little bit. With the whole the ballot of John Yoko and how that was just Paul and John. This kind of happens a few times throughout this year where it's Two of them, three of them but not all of them are there together I think there's another I can't remember which song it was, but there's a time when Hall and George and and. Ringo. But they are just you know not all of them were always there which kind of. Now that we have hindsight shows us like, yeah this was kind of starting to go in this direction. And they're all being really creative and productive without each other and I'm just kinda wondering did you have any ideas before writing that kind of change throughout your research of ood there was a sign that I haven't really seen before of this was this was coming to an end. Yeah I think he was just A. Gradual view is Asian as I said when when she began to look under the oldest story and Shane Short late under the stones and I think it was just a gradual piecing together of all the evidence to. The second did I didn't understand that. Hopping and then hosted the top and it was you is just a question of trying to understand the coin takes and the not. An the situation of the teams. And you new. You'll don't they all play together on the same tracks all. Of Advice Majority of teams. I mean join. Always play or At the Charleston. Yes, tells you something about the relationship between the middle. I again, it's open to interpretation. And it's not always very difficult to ascertain the truth behind these things even guys like Lewis in. The door of Beatles historians and it's really really difficult. In. The longer tamed is on the more difficult to become to try and establish. Some can velocity attached to the whole thing you know. So I think this almost on last show. Because PIP WOAH NOT, Thomas. Signal went misleading. So to try and get some of. These witnesses to history? No food to wait is difficult I spoke to. John Lennon had account trash and Scotland of all places in nineteen, Sixty, eight, hundred amazing part of that book because I'd just been up to that part of the country. So. Yeah. Exactly. So you know yourself is very rude always said. nope. No Cosmopolitan shape or form and I won't more than noise days undeb. Able to speak to Dr who attended join annual Lebron Hospital for a week on an agnostic, and again, it was just an example of speaking to people who were there. I get stories, the recollections, and helped to humanize the the bind in some shape or form you know. One of the things I real I was played. If. You look at the cover of Bobby? And I go to Milwaukee. image. On that are three guys down to the bottom left wedding way overdose and they were painters and decorators who just happened to be what can be rude juice day. And One of the phone and he'd never spoken about the find the. Ms almost like a grateful to bomb. Could you know for these guys crashed into the picture and the photographer? McClellan Waving. Statewide Guys police the show and then diffused to go and try to donate to negate one of the guy told me great stories of sitting in the absolute county token to the Regular guys. Yeah and all that Kinda thing nothing was was interesting for me. You know. And I do get image an SEM. Frozen in rural. Cody and it's like the. War. Poem. Age Shallow really them and I look at nights. I remember the actual. That's great and that's another thing that that you kind of go into that humanize because another aspect of that trip up to Scotland for Lenin was the. While he's in there, you know McCartney tries to call him I. Don't think that he talked to a nurse. He didn't get through the nurse was like. In disbelief that Paul McCartney called and she was talking to him but he was like, hey i. just wanted to check on John and she just passes the message on to him and and despite everything that was going on they were they were brothers they wanted to just let each other know that they cared. So you just hit the ceiling. What is I mean, these are the days of no Internet They didn't even have a foreign beside the bed. So you know you have to go through the hospital switchboard and you would ask for that condition report as I. Do not as a young journalist. The beginning the bare minimum information but there's no for the I. Think it does speak to the fight the. Even for older vine and the discord taking place in the background joining poll still loved each other and I truly believe up. I think they had the most complicated complex has. Polity and passed. By. The Beatles there's a whole although although joining poll. Of the key elements, you have four sides of the same square. and. If you take one of them away, even if it's wrinkle I'm a great defender Ringo Starr. Drumming Sensational absolute bone joined boy esque I would suggest. If you take one of them ways that doesn't walk and the Old News. And and I think. Absolutely abondoned brothers I. Think there was something. I always loved the story of the Beatles say the behind. A youngster West had discovered the music then walked into the studio and how these guys have this constellation formed to leave a musical big buying in a sense and I was looking at a love, the story and the asked why nineteen sixty nine can drew. Because just so much going on but I do think that they would abide the brothers. I. Think they genuinely loved each other. Complicated loves only families can understand and I think that I find that the Beatles. Reason people a year and I. Still, talking about buying the lot fifty years after the Louis must have something going for them. I. Think. I think finds, of Light Tub ended the same way the begun, which is Ford guys four French really loved each other and Ringo says. You got your through when you watch A. One fortunately fake and the way. Yeah. Well, the book is called ended in the end, the authors Ken mcnabb, and we we touched on a lot during this conversation. But if you if you enjoyed this, please go get the book it is like I. said I read it so fast I just enjoyed enjoyed it so much. So thank you for right in it. Thank you for research in it and thank you for coming on the show Ken. Or. My pleasure. Thank you for your questions and and for being. So Cambridge Marxist absolutely some people make being farmer. Cusak. Thank you had. had a really loved how he asked himself. If the world really needs another Beatles book before we started writing it but I can tell you that it did I really really loved the way that Ken constructed this book and I learned a lot. So if you enjoyed this episode, go by the book, tell a friend and as always for the stories one, hundred songs go to song facts dot. com. Everybody I'm Mike. And I'm Jesse Erin. And altogether, we are the tree. On the show we're going to share music that we love. We're going to discuss how punk rock has evolved in different sub genres have developed. We're GONNA talk to bands that have been influential in shaping the music industry and our lives. Sometimes. We challenge each other to dig into bands and sub-genre that we may not be into on our own. We're proud partner of the Pantheon podcast network and you could find us across all platforms and on social media at the punk tree. We have a really great time talking about music and life with each other. So please join us. Hi My name is Mike Shoe and along with Moluccan, Russ Khandan from the band town meeting, we host the long. May you young podcast on the Pantheon podcast network? This is our Neil Young cast where we mostly talk. Through four of Mr Young. It's my shoe. In. Trans- and harvest. One. A. We're pretty sure it's the only podcast that covers neil young's musical catalog album by album in order of release. Why are we doing this? Because, we have a neil problem okay. We've got the in-depth analysis, the historical context, the bad movie references they're all there. But Long May you young podcast? CHECK US out soon because it won't be long before the Pantheon folks figure out we don't know what the Hell we're doing.

Beatles Saint Paul McCartney George George John Lennon cody Ringo Starr John Paul John Lewis London Mr Ken mcnabb George Harrison Louis Allen Klein Georgia McCartney apple Twickenham studios Sergeant Major McCarthy John Yoko
Episode 76: Pew Pew Spaceman and Sandwiches

The Ladies of Strange

45:45 min | 1 year ago

Episode 76: Pew Pew Spaceman and Sandwiches

"Hey Guys Rebecca here due to what we're discussing this week. I wanted to give y'all a heads up of a couple of triggers. We're GONNA be talking about this episode specifically in regards to Colt activties and child abuse. So that something you need to not hear about. Please go ahead and hop off and join us again next week. We won't take it personally since. Mental health is of the upmost importance to us. So for those hopping off. We Love Y'all. We'll see all next week for those still here on with the show. Hello and welcome. We are the ladies of strange. I'm Ashley I'm Tiffany and I'm Rebecca. Thank you for joining US each week as we discuss. The history mystery in theory of all things questionable. Odd An eerie. Hello Ladies Hello. Hi You need. Take her phone away. Ma'am I'm not touching it. You are literally touching it. Cow Kind of it is on your leg by default. You're okay now on the floor. This is acceptable. Join US on discord. And you too can. Distract tiffany slash. Everyone when it's not there to report. So are we ready Lou? I don't know I'm not ready for tonight because I've heard I'm not going to be a fan. No you're not going to be a fan. I think of done an okay job but it's not up to be okay what it's complicated so instead of being like. I already learned about me because it starts off with one thing that leads into another dive on in Devonian dive on in so this is from the website citing my sources for the Yellow Deli. I don't know what that is familiar with or start off. I'm GonNa just read directly off their site. It's a little bit of their history and their background for the Yellow Deli which is in fact a restaurant okay. In the early seventies life for many of us was in the process of change. Those old enough to remember those days will not thoughtfully as their minds drift back to remember the end of the Vietnam War protests and the calming of the Revolutionary Drum beat that had throbbed in our young veins. The Path set before us than was polarizing. Would we confirm or continue to press on trying to change the world? Conform not confirmed they would we can form or continue to press on trying to change the world. We were becoming OSO tired as change. Came hard the drugs that had quote enlightened. Us were beginning to disappoint us. As the early excitement now headed towards various full blown addictions it had been heartbreaking to see friends. Od into some distant. Never never land leaving US far behind. Would it all end this way? This is a restaurant. Slant restaurant air quote Deli and you them so out go the commune's and income the three piece business suits get ready for the technological roller coaster ride of your life. The hippies are now becoming millionaires but a few miss that train and decided to make the best of the peace love and happiness movement starting a new way of life in the south where cotton grows high and life is simple. The Yellow Deli started up about this time. It was to go on a course on imagined. Oh what the hell is happening. She had a new Tennessee. Became the home of the Yellow Deli opening stores in May of Nineteen seventy-three serving healthy food. In the midst of a fried chicken culture. The Deli was an immediate success. Finally there was something different. We served lushes fruit salads. Great Sandwiches Fresh Garden Salads and homemade desserts something about the warm rustic atmosphere drew people in like a magnet at the bottom of the hand-drawn menu was a scribbled. A sincere and provocative question. We serve the fruit of the spirit. Why not ask? The term fruit of the spirit comes from a Bible verse about love and Joy and peace being the quote fruit which would be produced by the lives of those who knew God. Oh in the south where religion was rigidly proclaimed but scarcely seen other than the mandatory Sunday morning meetings in various buildings big and small. The Yellow Deli was something new the thought of encountering faith in a pretty cafe where they were people whose beliefs made them happy full of life as they served. Wholesome food was quite refreshing concept for people of those religions. Okay I am intrigued right now. So confused this is all direct quotes off their website. Holy goes a little bit into the history behind it which we're going to skip over that little chunk and come back to it okay so yet. We are still small in comparison to the huge quote fatal flaw of human beings against which we have set ourselves on this battlefield of life. Yes it is against a fatal flaw which is kept humans down divided basically dead throughout history. That flaw is selflessness selfishness. I have no flaws so wait a second wait. That is a flaw. We give too much over. So yes yes. That's our flag can do less of that. I have no probably and her. Many manifestations greed jealousy envy strife hostility. Bloodshed really all of those things that keep humans from just being friends or ugly fingers stretch themselves into the smallest corners of our lives marriages kindergarteners workplaces just the kindergartners. Once they get out of that stage they're fine. I don't know I I know. Some kindergarteners that was real kindergarten lake battlefield full of selfishness business. Oh God this is going to be another one more. I can't pronounce big words. Marriages kindergarteners workplaces and of course in the big picture. 'cause world wars atomic bombs massive world pollution. Our little life of love is only a flicker in the face of such an enemy so this story looks more like a David and Goliath kind of plot but regardless we as a people plan to continue into this battle until our last dying breath and we believe that David will win. That is the story of the Yellow Deli. That started so long ago and for those who we are meeting for the first time we extend our heartfelt hand of friendship we hope you enjoy a glimpse into the vision that has caused us to be a total cooperative society running our yellow. Delis and our businesses together without the hindrance of seeking for our personal gain all of our businesses our own together with an extreme care given to bookkeeping for the government and all else to see that we sincerely live this life without any one person making more than his neighbors within our community. We've actually dedicated to this. Cause many have come and gone through the years. Many go on their way after they confront difficult demands of enduring in such a selfless endeavour. Those of us who remain plan on staying love his our home. What is yours over talking about a colt? Oh we're talking this. I am Paul. Now it makes. You're not gonNA like this yeah. The language can't be that flowery without something going bad it. It's it's not good. I'M PUMPED. Who will get it okay. So yeah. That's just on their site of course because it's a Colt and I am here for it and there's a condensed version. That's on the news. Oh as we'll take your entire meal to reap that just a little light reading while you're there not to include the other pamphlets they get handed out but that's fine. Oh yes currently. As in bright me out there are numerous locations of Shit. Well it's fine. Time is a construct. You WanNa News. I mean yes in two thousand nineteen. They were there too but as far as I know they're all still standing. Currently there are numerous occasions of the Delis which now go by either the Yellow Deli or some of them have migrated to other titles. But it's the exact same thing but including there's one in Chattanooga which is the first one they have California Missouri Australia Spain England and then there's one in Brunswick Georgia and then there is a cafe in Savannah. It's the Yerba Matei cafe so as we've established the Delis are the first line of conversion. They offer good food at cheap prices and they're open twenty four hours a day five days a week okay. They're open Sunday at noon to Friday at three. Okay that one in four hours not to go way off track but Saturday is their day arrest. I can't remember exactly what terminology they for it and then we'll explain why they thoroughly on Fridays. So I will say while you're reading through all of that on there what page. I knew it was a cold because immediately I was like. Oh my God the psalms amazing I know but just hold with me where you buy into this okay. If we ever visit this place we're GONNA have to keep an eye on her. Not after I get through this. Hey good the Delis are pretty much conversion camps the members of the group that work at the diner are encouraged to get to know the customers and ask where they live ask about their families you know may compel a warm and welcome like any good hippie would do and patrons are often invited to join the group for an event and talk about Jesus and hold events every Friday night. Oh they have like an open house either at the cafe or one of the homes close by every Friday. That's why they close early. Fridays and Saturdays their day arrest and then they opened again on Sundays. Okay but who runs these delis? You may ask Let's travel back in time. A bit in nineteen seventy-three Eugene sprigs. A former high school teacher and guidance counselor formed the Vine Christian Community Church which is now known as the twelve tribes community spraying owns fun. I'm sorry just let me get to page five out of nine okay. Maybe four and probably not even that long just holding sorry Briggs and his. I think it was his third wife at this point. We're looking for a church that put God before everything not satisfy the options they found. They decided to form their own community. That focuses on restoring the apostate church of Jewish disciples who surrounded Joshua. Who is the this the Hebrew name for? Jesus anyway the group would meet at a local coffee shop. As the group began to grow. They began to live communally communion together in one space community. Yes I know the Colt words. Yeah Yeah you've to. I don't know if I should be proud of you or not and became the light brigade. They were part of the first Presbyterian Church but in nineteen seventy five. The church had cancelled the services for the Super Bowl which upset the group and they decided to start their own church the vine Christian community the most American statement no church today a group GOUT upset because another church cancelled for the Super Bowl. I mean good on you church. Thanks for my day off so they would meet at the local Park Mourner Park in downtown Chattanooga so in nineteen seventy eight sprigs received an invitation from a small church in island pond Vermont and they gradually started moving towards Vermont and working their way up spreading the news of their church in their Goss bowl so they eventually closed the Yellow Deli in Chattanooga and erected the northeast kingdom community. Church guess erected so over the next twenty years. They would open branches in several different countries including Canada Australia. Brazil Spain Germany Argentina and the United Kingdom and during this time over the period of the twenty years at some point couldn't find an exact date they change to the twelve tribes in two thousand six. They held a reunion for their members and friends and returned to Chattanooga which they opened the brand new. It's not new because they refurbish change. But they were you. Open the Yellow Deli so the twelve tribes is a loose hybrid of Judaism Judaism. I've heard it is. I just think it's Judaism but I could be wrong. I've heard it both ways. Okay and Christianity Por. Que No less. So they preached to their followers to live their lives by the first testament. Don't ask me thou shalt have no. They're gods before me. What she said home-schooled we said that. That's the first commandment. Yeah the New Testament is old. Testament is the first books or chapter. What was the question I said? They live their life by the first testament. So the Old Testament with that the old testament I have more and more notes. You said. Command said commandment. I don't know these things. A religious cult may not have been the best thing for me. Feel like you're burning always. I said she's a hot near Aside we are talking about how we're all going to hell and somebody who was like I'll drive and they were cool. Well I'M GONNA leave basket mckellar acute if you think he's going to wait that long. I'm GonNa dying doubles gotTa be like Bitch. I have been waiting for you. And it's just going to be an instant fall into basket or your body's even coal finally thank you. You have so much to do. I need your great project manager and I've got a lot going on down here also. This bitch has been here for three years and she won't shut take her and go. Make Office things happen. It's fair yeah okay. So they follow the first estimate and they embrace the notion that they were descendants from the original twelve tribes of Israel so sprigs now became referred to as Yawn ICK. Ooh It's always a power. Move and occult when the Leader Changes. Its name every member all yes. This is a good one came baptized and was given a Hebrew name when they join so when he first started the group he said there would be no leaders. Everyone would be a priest but of course since then things have changed and sprigs claims that he is a profit and has a direct pipeline to God. Oh my God it's classic cold. I Am Jack. Your mind in the seventies. This was like Prime Colt. Oh Yeah Jim Jones. You had Jews baseman father. Son and Holy. I'm cheap. I'm sure he did. We find with that Pew Pew Space Man when we get to help. We'll talk about that pup- space man. Why is his name? Crosstown on every one of these forms. And why is it initially data because proper document control? And we're officially changing. His name fused that's going to be his eternal hills. He has at the Social Security Office to get his name. James Initial at its span. Just saying why he's been waiting for me for so long. I'M GONNA make people because I don't know why our God is awesome. God just popped in my head. Oh lordy okay. We're on page two of nine. We've got these so the events that we were talking about like. I said they're usually held on Friday nights. They're big celebrations. There's music dancing singing. Some fine fare. From the local dealer Della Rees Delis and the guests are encouraged to join in and of course all the guests are all the members. Make the guest feel as welcome as possible as party is about them. Former members recount their first interactions is extremely positive and made to seem like everyone is equal but of course as they got more involved they quickly learned. That's not the case and that there's an intense hierarchy within the group all. The teachings are quite detrimental to the members and their families. Their teachings are transcribed into an intertribal news. Which is their newsletter. But some of the teaching our withheld until the members are quote worthy of hearing them like scientology. There's a lot of things like I've heard this before I'll rag copy paste. I wonder which was around. I know in scientific holter and book a book it to their hand cults for Dummies One. Change Your name step to call. Tiffany. She'll tell you the rest all right so this is when it starts to get real very began to preach that blacks were destined to be slaves. No no homosexual homosexuals deserve the death penalty and women who weren't allowed to use birth control had to atone for Eve's original sin by giving birth without pain medication. No no to all of that. Fuck 'em with the CACTUS. I don't like him no. He's not a good guy. Tried to give you guys heads up out of the Colts Audi and we're just barely scratching the surface. No one of the teachings. Was that the submission to whites was the only condition of which blacks would be saved. Martin Luther King Junior was filled with all manners of evil. No but the churches said that they're not racist how wait hold on because they have black members who was submitted to. I'm not racist. I have friends that are black. That was the enemy of but there's multiple quotes were like. We have members of all races here but fun fact that we'll touch back on later. You can't marry interracially within their community. I am so again but was it a so he also teaches that Jews are guilty of the blood of Christ which of course has led to Anti Semitism so the group follows three basic tenets. Leave enter become leave white. What your life behind before. No one. That's that's going to be the colts. For Dummies yes. Leave enter become so before becoming a member. Applicants must quit their jobs. Give up all worldly possessions including houses cars and any cash that they have access to absolutely. I'm an after being stripped of all possessions. They enter into a Sacred Covenant. Similar to marriage dedicating their lives to the entire community. So they don't just dedicate it to him it's to their entire community Only then can they become a new person. The man adopt new names and modify their appearances to resemble the Messiah. How gray hair out long hair and beards. Because we know what Jesus looked like this White Guy. I see all our hair and beard right even seen it on necklaces. It has to be true. Oh God he's white on necklaces. Usually like a gold ish silverish tote on the sun-kissed his bronze or was on fleet. That day highlight on point and they said that they don't have gay people in the Bible. What's the three tenets have been? Affected members can begin to work at one of the businesses. Oh how nice of you. But they don't get paid. No it all goes towards the community. line Also they have filed. But they don't have to pay taxes either because it's falls under advancement of religion Alma. Delis bakeries farms everything that they own they don't have to pay taxes on any of it because it's a business that falls under the advancement of religion. Oh boy they are allowed to work at one of the businesses. They do chores around the commune. Or if you're a female you're lucky enough to watch and home school. The children count me out. No thank you. I love being a mom but I also love going to work. I'M GONNA go be a project manager for Satan so they are often compared to amish. 'cause THEY HAVE BEARDS. They don't believe in cutting their hair. They have no TV. They don't smoke no alcohol but they're not associated with them in any way other than like their outwardly. Your parents and people actually more closely relate them to messianic. Gmc got it. Thank you and goodnight. Messianic Jews believe that Jesus was the Messiah but they don't think he did anything from the Old Testament. Okay but that was the whole point. I know nothing. I'm just trying to give facts here. People don't understand religion. I don't have one of those. I've been meaning to go pick one up but right I haven't made it to the religion store. Okay and every time I walk into the Christian based ones it gets really hot and I had to leave so they believe that he died for people sentenced and they're still very strict about certain rules so similar they don't eat shellfish you can't put two seeds into one hole and no that's not a that's what I thought it was like a writer. You Funny No. That's actually one of their six hundred thirteen commandments. Holy Shit Nike's that they have to follow so I guess like back in the crop days you can't put two seeds in one back in the in the time of airplanes during the agricultural time is that a time. Yes isn't it. Noggin it out of the park. Tonight at eight. Oh and they also can't wear polyester NU disco for you know. I knew that one because it's Lynn. Yeah it's a manmade textile. Yes so hold up. All textiles are manmade. But it's not a naturally occurring. Yeah like cotton is just. It's not one hundred percent cotton at okay. So their main goal is to remake the twelve tribes of Israel and usher in the return of Yoshua or Jesus so they say that Jesus will return quote like a king coming for his bride when she is fully prepared for him and that he will only return when the tribe has produced one hundred forty four thousand perfect male children so pure. That fire comes out of their mouths. I was really hoping you were. GonNa say anus. So they want one hundred and forty four thousand dragon. Children Dragon Baby Male male dragon ladies. Ooh Can we extract that part from this and put it in another Colt because that would be cool hundred and forty four thousand dragon baby? Yeah I'm down for that. Not The other stuff. I can get behind the Dragon. Babies a couple of aspects. We could take from each colt and make our own little strange gold. We'll let the beauty of beauty. It's terrible but colts are so popular because they start out so pure and like they're so attractive in the way people want to live their lives and then it just like dragon babies one hundred and forty four thousand of them. God that sounds awful dragon babies when we go to hell we can re cute. Pugh spaceman perfect. And he can be one of our dragon base. Excellent so in to create this perfect species of fire-breathing manned children The marriages in the group are usually arranged by the elders. Don't like that. And it is highly encouraged. That women be submissive or subservient to the men and their primary purpose is child bearing and child rearing. If that's not your don't do it right. If that's your thing Kudos but proved thank you. I have a hard time with my male boss telling problem you said. I'm sorry I'll get right on that. My apologies as we discussed. Birth control is not allowed. Every family is expected to have a minimum. Oh No I'm not gonNA like this seven jewels why. That's so maybe that's a litter and let's hope a lot of them are boys they can breathe fire minimum of seven. They are expected. I mean nothing's wrong without if you want it but as a pre requisite that's not okay. No that can be dangerous now. Granted if I didn't have to worry about financial struggles and like I could stay home. Not to be real. I would not want to stay home with seven children. No but you know in that situation. It'd be a little easier because you don't have to worry about daycare but no thank you. No thank you. And what did they do? If you can't conceive. Or You have trouble conceiving or are they just like okay we get it or they like you outy well. They don't kick anyone out. Okay that's for. Some reason makes me nervous very very nervous. They pray about it because Mainstream medical care is discouraged. No and in some of the tribes it is completely forbidden. No so either. One hundred and forty four thousand unimmunized dragging babies Joe. They're breathing measles. That's what the fire-breathing is. It's not locust kissed. It's fire babies terrifying a heat. This so like I said. There's no access to birth control or PRE OR POST NATAL. Care for the women that are expected to just pop out illiterate fire-breathing. Jersey no big deal. I can donkey. What how many babies did they have? They had Shrek and donkey dot have babies Dragon Their Yari. So people did become ill. The elders or shepherds would go to the person and see if there was anything in them that they needed to quote. Get out such as passenger vans fair but Jesus take care of those such as confessing their sins such as impure thoughts insubordination would be sick. All the time could be causing illness. If someone was ill they would be allowed to use in most areas. Some of them. Don't even let them do this Holistic practices from the commune's Medical Guide and they would be prayed over. I am so not okay with this. And I watched an interview where there's like a holistic treatments for like pre-clampsia and genetic disorders if a baby comes out yet it's no keep in mind. I said current LE- that there are not okay so they would be a lot easier listrik practices and they were not allowed to seek outside medical care and less in some of them. It was at the point of extreme urgency or danger and was approved by the elders. By that time it's too late. Usually F that no one former member recalls having issues during pregnancy and was not allowed to seek medical care when she went into Labor. She kept insisting that something was wrong but was not allowed to ask for any help until it was too late once she was allowed to access a midwife. They were not able to detect a heartbeat. She was still forced to deliver and the baby was taking away immediately. Once they returned to the community they were told that it was their fault and something that they had done made. God take the baby away. I HATE THEM HAIR. Getting to the fun stuff. A fun is used loosely. So everything is went into God's hands and he is expected to quote come through and if he didn't it is your fault at not. No no no no no no she of multiple women who either miscarried or lost a child during delivery but claimed it was treated as a normal occurrence and that the couple would be punished for the loss to the and the children that are born or brought into the community in most cases are home schooled looking to rebecca who I. I've okay with your home schooling yes I obviously. It was much better than my public. Schooling don't even go there. And they are generally made perform extreme manual labor such as working in the fields or the quote factories. So a lot of them they actually like back in the day. Used to work in like package up for like major medical or not medical make up brands Like they would package for like estee lauder and stuff like this back in like seventies eighties but of course the longer a thing but they do still produce candles homemade soaps stuff like that. They sell at local farmers markets and within some of their delis shops and the children are generally the ones know over boiling pots of wax making candles and whatnot. That's safe so the children have a very strict code which is laid out in the two hundred and sixty seven page child training manual. Oh and parents are required to attend monthly child training sessions. They're not puppies. The child training manual include. Oh No I love you. Tiffany don't forget that Scott so the first section that I pulled and I'm not obviously going to go through all of them but there's a section that are forty sayings for training children training children. I don't like this. They're not dogs a child. Self image is improved by his parents speaking directly to him. Okay Fair. I don't like this. Let your child know that you have faith in him to do better. I mean okay. Don't let your trialed tried to win. You buy stride strife. Don't let your child tried to win you by strife temper tantrums. Got it though faults in the Children. Reflect the faults in the parents You cannot trainee child. You cannot control spanking ministers to the entire child. Train your child to submit his selfish will. A person with a selfish will will never submit himself to Yoshua. This makes really uncomfortable. The rod must be used to correct wrong thoughts wrong birds and wrong deeds. Thoughts are powerful. There is no sin without thinking about it once. You've cited with your child against authority. You've ruined Tim. I'M GONNA rule ruin no way. My child is ruined. Don't allow your child to complain. Excuse me what. Don't allow your children to be bitter slothful or wasteful. Don't expect too much too soon. Okay train your child to submit willingly to his discipline. Make sure he bends over. Submissively guilt will not be removed unless he submits willingly. I'm really not okay with this. So some of the things that are included in their training practices If the children are caught playing pretend what they must be punished. No that's ninety. Five percent of children do they are believed hooping right. Make believe in pooping sometimes perfect life. Sometimes they do that well I wonder yeah fits perfect daydreaming time. It is so if they're caught playing pretend they are believed to have entered the unseen realm which is believed to be another world and they are being possessed by Satan so they entered the world of fairies. If they so much as imagine anything getting fire-breathing children is okay. Okay yes possessed by Satan right setting up pretend to be a fire. Breathing Dragon. You're not you have not depend teamed worthy to be a fire breathing dragon. Beatings must begin at six months as no no no if a baby wriggles while having their diaper change they can and should be spanked to keep them still no no. There are no toys allowed. No books that give human properties to nature are allowed so like smiling sunshine are talking animals or anything like that They're not allowed to speak to each other. Hold up unless it's approved by the adults quote covering them. I am so unhappy right now. There's talking animals in the Bible. I don't know it does aided that wasn't I well? I don't really follow the full Bible. Though so depending on where in the Bible that lands it may not be part of their word. Or however you talk about it so they're not allowed to speak to each other according to spriggs their founder. This can only lead to foolishness. I'M GONNA foolish your face. When a child receives their punishment. They are not allowed to cry. They must stand perfectly still head. Bent forward stay. Silent children can be punished by any adult in the commune. This is conditioning. Most Commun- subscribe to using a long rod or Dowell that can usually be found above. Most doorframes I am really not okay with any of this in the south we call that a switch. Yeah I mean I went to go pick your own I mean yes but like this is There's a video on the twelve tribes website on how to properly discipline. Your children called quote when the spanking stopped. All hell broke loose former L. REPORT. This we can but is it wouldn't be the first. Is it on Youtube? It's on their website at O- has it on their website. I don't want to do but movie wouldn't be the first. So a former elder who went by Hans is quoted to say? It looked as almost more like dog training. You're taking it down to a primal level. However once he had children of his own his mind shift didn't he and his wife left the tribe in two thousand nine with their children. Good so in. Nineteen eighty-four is called the raid of island palm which is where they went in Vermont. Okay took place where one hundred twelve children were removed from the community due to concerns of child abuse multiple rods were compensated but a judge called the search illegal and the children were all sent home. No and two thousand fourteen. A police raid removed. Forty children from a twelve tribes community in Germany after undercover footage reported physical punishment of multiple. Children do not search that video. Oh God no. They don't even show the beatings but they show like the adults. Interacting with the kids know. I can't so as we said the twelve tribes are still an active community and this is just like a minor little scratchy. Scratch the surface of the stuff that they have been and are involved in. Why are they still The group defends itself is simply following the dictates of the Bible Note. When a person uses the word Colt he usually means some group. He fears dislikes while we are from time. To time. Called a quote. We ARE NOT FALSE UNORTHODOX or extremist. That is true So on their website twelve tribes dot com. They have a question and answer section which. I don't understand if they don't have computers. How do they reply? But I digress and you see. This is where this came from. We do nothing other than what the word of the Bible have always called for as a reasonable response to God's love in sending his sutton Not How that works. Not at all a local bartender. I don't remember around which I think it's Chattanooga but he said it's still just as much of a Colt. Today's that was in the seventies. I don't support them in their hippie. Ultra Religious Freak ponytail wearing sandwich making serving the fruit of the spirit. My ass against spring. I have nothing against titties. But only this group right. I love bees others typically university of Chattanooga students who frequent the daily between classes and in the late hour the are more open to the twelve tribes. Of course they are because they're young and irrational. They don't like being called a Colt. I know that one student from University of Chattanooga says and besides even if they were sandwiches sandwich and they have really awesome sandwiches. That sounds like a college student. Yeah don't care the things they support. I don't want any part of. I don't want to give money to a place like that. No and I was listening to crap. I can't remember lame. The podcast is history freaks. I think it is One of the guys went before he knew a fully what was going on. And like so you pay for your meal and then there's an option for a tip but your servers not getting it now. So you're paying even more for your meal because the people that work there don't get paid any like they don't make any of that money goes back into the community but they don't have to claim any of it and it's a whole infuriating deal in the fact that is twenty twenty and this is still somehow okay was the part that really got to me so there is a website called question. Twelve tribes DOT com. So it's question. The number twelve tribes DOT COM and. They're dedicated to exposing the community and protecting the children of the twelve tribes slow up. Yeah and they've got resources available for all of the different countries where they're located anything that comes out about them. News related is put on that site. Like that's where I got a ton of my information for this so they also have a lot of resources. They ACCEPT DONATIONS TO HELP. These people get out and like restart their lives. They're doing amazing things. It was started by former members. Oh good and like I said just to kind of nail in how recent this is in the fact that it still going on. I just found this today. I knew that it was so going. And I know that. There's a Lotta Open investigations about them. Today we're recording this. P Pine Curtain is March tenth. This article was posted on March eighth. Twenty twenty quote grim discovery as police digging up headquarters of Twelve Tribes Religious Sect. To find the remains of at least one baby in a coffin. Like box no. And that's the first spot that they started searching no That was in Australia. The tribe that's located just outside of Sydney. They have been investigating that tribe since September of two thousand nineteen and this is the first search that they did and it came up. Oh God Not Good not good at all and like I said the fact that they are still like insanely active. There's a ton of interviews on youtube from. I think it's a current affair. Is I think it's like a news station out of Australia. And they're covering it so anyone's interested you can keep an eye on their news. I'm sure that's where a lot of the updates or that question. Twelve tribes website because they post their amazing full of resources. So this makes me so angry. Why how how is this? I had heard about it and I knew that it started in the seventies. I had no idea and I've heard like the Yellow Deli because this whole interest into this started there's a place around called the yellow submarine which is like a Deli shop and I made a comment about wanting to try it. My brother was like my brother in law said that it was run by Colt by coat was talking about and we realize it was the L. Deli. Then I started looking into it then. I thought that it was over by now and it is very much. Not that makes me really upset. I really don't like the racism and the Anti Semitism and everything else. I don't like any little trend like their children but they're raising them to be perfect children do. I'm on the older and are perfect. They are without. What is it spared? Spare the Rod Spoil the Child. Yeah that would I want to go punch people? I don't get angry like that all three. It's okay no it's not okay. It's not okay but I'm not mad at you. Yeah it was a quite the downward spiral once. I started getting into like wait. A second is articles from Twenty Eight. Wins from twenty. Oh fuck me right so when you first started talking about them. I was like Chattanooga. That's close let's go look no no no. That's not I mean. Of course I don't want to but I also try and think about like the people that are working. There are probably children that were raised in this community and are adults now and they don't know anything else. God that just breaks my heart so it's like of course you want to be upset new only get mad at them and yell at them but probably a lot of them because I would imagine. There's not a ton of people just coming in off the street joining recently. I know that there are some like early two thousands because I watched a couple interviews with people that joined and then realize what it was piece of poke out or like the guy that once he had his own children was like wait. No this isn't okay. And a couple of people that have left recently. But I can't imagine there's a whole lot of new recruits. I could see how somebody could get sucked into something like that. But well I mean you have classic like I'm going to join a colt. One day by accident tiffany but once I get in there and see stuff like that. That's a big hell. No but it's so unlike there in like I said Savannah and they're in these touristy college towns so they pray they know exactly who they're preying on in. It's still active in twenty twenty so be smart people when you're reading something that sounds like it might be. Colt. It probably is and keep your tiffany's away from them please. And thank you. We can't be left on our own. Tiffany's general speaks for all tiffany. Well thank you. That was very informative. It was something and very infuriating. When I came across that article today I was like what the fuck I guess at a new that it was still going on but I also try to kind of look at it as a good sign because I can imagine what stuff on there. Thank you Australia for. Finally Spearheading that one in Germany. Which I'm sure they've done. You know investigations into all of them but she. It's kind of like you. GotTa approach it very strategically. I'm sure. Yeah I can imagine when something comes up major one of those. Yeah it's not like you can go in guns blazing because then you get told. That was an illegal search and exactly and that's they're very cautious about anybody coming on to the property and again that raises red flags but it's also kind of like protected because it is a religious thing and it's that whole seeking You can go into a church and seek asylum asylum. Yeah says it's a religious property. There are certain guidelines and laws which is a whole nother discussion that we can get into question. Good news is my anxiety is much better. Could actually finished. It's all it takes is a very depressing subject for research is better before that so that I could research this subject because this is the one that I always trying to do. Last time I was like no this shit. Let's talk about how sad I am. And the next week. We'll talk about. Why picked will thank you. Ma'am I it all right to you on that note remember friends. Everyone has something that they find odd at sometimes. It is if you have any questionable topic to like discuss. You can share them with us on any of her social. Media's we might hate it but you can share it links can be found on our website. Pilatus strange dot com or you can email them to us at the laziest strange at email dot com. Don't forget to subscribe rate and review. And if you think we're doing a great job and want to support the show you can find us at Patriotair dot com slash. The ladies of strange keep it strange lovely and shut down any colts. Uc showdowns she singlehandedly. Just shut them. Down Holtz are cancelled. Yes or you're GONNA get a nickname like puce basement by.

colts Yellow Deli Chattanooga Tiffany Germany US Israel Australia Colt activties Youtube Deli project manager Vermont Cow Kind Lou
Kendrick Perkins on Harden, Westbrook, the 76ers, Kyrie, and Much More | Real Ones

The NBA Show

1:08:33 hr | 6 months ago

Kendrick Perkins on Harden, Westbrook, the 76ers, Kyrie, and Much More | Real Ones

"Was pop embrose ruins slogan murdoch. Here roz bell. We had our first thursday guest roger. Listen i don't know that you could like for premiere of thursday guests. It doesn't get any better. We got kendrick perkins. Who was who lived up to all his billing by the way roger was just was fantastic. All the hype. Like perk perk is to be like a weekly like. He's gotta be he's gotta be like reality. Make it part of the pie of. He's already a friend of the show but he's definitely family of the show right now. He was great. He talked about james harden. He talked about the clippers. He talked about lebron. He talked about kyrie. He talked about everybody. He talked about walter. He talked about walter mccarty. That's all you need to know tap in ruins i. This episode is brought to you by microsoft teams. Now they're more ways to be a team with microsoft teams. Bring everyone together in a new virtual room. Collaborate live building ideas on the same page and see more of your team on screen at once. Learn more at microsoft dot com slash team. What's poppin real ones logan. Murdoch here raja raja. We have a special guest on the podcast. We have a former mcdonald's. All american we have an nba champion. Most importantly though most importantly a former oakland soldier kids are most importantly both of us. Look i was gonna tell you to start the meat noblemen out. Say you know what running back so well but you had to throw ngo bay area. The russ s k perk back and forth. Because i can't prove it. But i don't know if he's from oakland like i think he might be a burbs. I think he might burbs care. I'm just saying oh okay. Oh i'm talking so so raza right. When i when i was when i was you know may apart less my guy so i was. I was asking him. You know you know trying to get you on. A pack has woop. Do you have the necessary equipment to get on the pod right. Are you good. Do you need anything you need help. Utter disrespect park responds back. I'm a mother fucking professional. We got mother. Fuck professional on the podcast. Today i just want to publicly say i dog. I'm sorry man. I i just want to apologize. Man la bad. Oh no actually. If i had the microphone and i really do look do the home schooling. The kids being degraded. I got kicked out of my man cave mouth and so i really got. I had to come in old. Ladies biden is good though she keeps it clean. She gave her company. Let me let me ask what i already know about the whole school i trevor. I'm room to room in this wherever i could find a little spot like. That's where i'm posting up trying to get a video call in Before we get started logan. Because i'm really curious. Like perk. When i played like i didn't know that i wanted to be on the media side of things until later in my career like when did that. 'cause we were cleveland together. You referenced it before we hopped on at what point in your career. Did you notice might be an avenue that you wanted to pursue man to be on his which had no point in my career. Denial thought i was going to be in me. Mama country boy from beaumont. Texas would broken english trying to use big words. I looking in the site compete on being me right but as a player always wanted to be the next head coach. That was a big man that played in the league. And so you know. I started doing the media just to my voice be heard i to all the organizations that i did play with right to let them know like okay. Big personality gang basketball like he could be on somebody. Badge without start has a player development. God forbid whatever the case may be that was my goal and then all of a sudden the media just kind of took off from did woes all of sudden. I'm oh yes. Gm find some doing a in. They call me back. And i was using twitter during the playoffs. Slight tweak different days like a uk leased side corner elbow on the three point. Nine eight would you mind coming on the show coming back and i just saw like like you know once again. The schedule dime might. She meant home a lot with the fan it. I taken away from now on working with three or four hours a day. Max my day is pretty much done by twelve o'clock afternoon. Somebody shit i can do this. I will watch basketball anyway. So i might as well go talk about right. Yeah how did how did that give you. Some maybe different level respect for the media or maybe some different level of disdain for the media. How does that. How did that make you feel from your playing days till now. Well you know what. I say this all the time. People don't even know men. I got the utmost respect for everyone. That's in the media of that. Has the media platform because people don't know it's a lot of hard work 'cause behind this is not just waking up watching the game going talk about nixed more. No people doing research studying a late at night. You know a crossing the is so. I respect all everyone. Everyone who's in that media space right now. China make series Look so you you touched on it as being maybe an avenue to coach in it works out like that for guy. Sometimes you hop on the broadcast. You show That that accurate for the game and before you know it you start getting calls to to come on a bench and you talked about then realizing The quality of life comes sometimes with the media side of as opposed to coaching. Are you are you saying to us. Now we're gonna put you on the spot a little bit That coaching bug is gone. Like you are officially media or you still open to a potential call now still open but just not right now like right now. I'm focused on his media. I'm cool with it. Like i'm comfortable than comfortable. Actually i actually love is on light. Let me see what the next five or six shells hold for me. Being in this media space in a coaching opportunity comes about as my kids get older. You know as. I didn't call them my family time. I'm i'm a definitely look into right ironman. Let's get to the shit's a sheds. Let's go so we're we're we're talking. We're doing this and the right on the eve of the nba. Preseason and the biggest story right now has been james harden the trade request the going to the ice bowl with low baby flying across the country park to go to vegas and being late to show up training camp and he and i think he has to do six tests before he can get back on the on the team and all these things. What is your take on. The james hard houston fiasco. That's going on right now. I i it was meant to be honest with child says less you you know it had reports that down here in eastern so you know have reports that you know giants you know. He had this relationship with the ownership. Would he was starting the gold with their boy head on the line danes. Anyway so he has. He has a direct relationship with with the owners. And i knew it will go. Can't will because you know days that they weren't pranks mike d'antoni went big on practice and so he will give two three days out. We special when they had along with was from games. You know giants will take up vader's or even kabul so. I knew that this could possibly happen. But right now looking at it no like those old people you say man those old. Jeez i which you do is how you do it right and i. I don't have a problem with james exit for trade in the change of scenery. I don't have a problem with it. But i do. Have a problem with is high. He's out right like a lotta people get caught up in than entertainment. Any deals to the outside world Field is your job like broken getting paid thirty plus million dollars to show up to work at people wanna bring up. A anthony davis who situation. I was like anthony davis soda to work yet. He wanted out the wallis but he was still showing up and give you the twenty ten night in a twenty five minutes. And i think it's just bad. Giants is handling things because guys that was like you know awfully magic of joe and all those guys that will befall us will get eight million dollars two million dollars three million dollars max and they pave the way for this generation of be blessed away. We all missing like we burn at breezy style by acts like is because rows you know from being in the front office. Mana- owners will go back to the when his time when it's up and this'll affect the next generation next thing you know they have james on clause in you know now owners have guys in front office right now. There's looking at the houston rockets. Like y'all need a whole new. Macabre like i need to find him because this is not a good excel. So i'm just like. I don't have a problem with giants while now like bro. You gotta shorts were like you can't do it this way that they look. I couldn't have said that better. And i i said on bill simmons podcast a few weeks ago as it pertained to this. That's exactly what's going to happen. You're going to have to take it a step. Further perk those catch. You talked about like magic. And mike didn't have the ability to demand some shit like that wasn't even a possibility at that point. 'cause owners had older control. And so what they're gonna do is go back at the next. Cb and they're gonna try to take back their fucking control leg because the players have too much. I agree one hundred percent. Now let me ask you a two part question about you. Being on a team in the capacity that you are on most teams as a voice At you know as someone not afraid to speak your piece of whole guys account was a leader if you're in that locker room and james harden is doing what he's doing. What does that look like from your perspective in terms of is there communication with him. Are you cutting him off until you see him again And then we talked about on our last pod the league and the houston rockets having to do something to at least look like have a backbone in this situation like what the fuck. What do we do right right. It is like if i was in that locker room. I like as a leader role like you don't have to be a franchise gotta be believable locker room you notice so i'm like this if i'm in their locker room james not doing this because beforehand. I'm making sure. I'll reach out and celebrate mad. Look camp start or whatever the case may be. I'm reaching out to him days before. Legless man we you know. I'm getting this under control. But right now. I mean guys gotten feel some type of way like you. Basically tell the guys like man. I don't wanna play beyond like if i'm co- stephen silas. I feel of way although each halloween. It right the media saying all the right aims but he got him feel this type away especially as a brother. We been lobbying for this over over years for more opportunities for african americans to get jobs especially head. Coaching jobs in india should have a a young unstirred. Who'd been in a game for a long time in real and well respected. You know showing respect like shorts to work like you would do phil jackson anybody else. You know what i mean. I just have a problem with is if i was in their locker room. I would try to keep the peace you know. Obviously giants is the franchise he is. You've missed the rocket himself. So like what can you do but man you just gotta try to lace them up on as man. He's not a good look now. There is the argument to be made. Also that man. James harden got what he wants he wanted in houston right. He got when you need when you needed help. Del maury traded for chris. Paul you had the best season of that run right. Then you flip him for your guy. Russell westbrook right. And then you know. Daryl morey does get fired or whatever like that or he gets. Let go. but you can't make the argument for most of his time. Houston that's his team in his in his vision lack of a better term right. Can't you make that argument. Look i i said this that. Jason has had more control over north Organization more than any of the league s including the brought while the people that say he got the say so in the front office in e in his gl though jays and really was. The gm is noble. That was a by the houston rockets. They can go do james all some or his ill dwight howard out of the c. Three hundred up. He got russ of here. He and i know he played a big again. Just growing up with just green was on a free agent. You know what i'm saying. So like he used the rockets been given everything given everything. The giants not notice for a fact entombing for tito has tried to do everything in his power to please. I'm talking when i say everything i mean every. Yeah that's that's that's slippery. Slope brought slippery slope. Go ahead logan. Do you think that when the player empowerment movement it doesn't have to be done responsibly. Because i feel like lebron has been the most successful at it. What's the difference between. Lebron handled the player. Power movement versus. How james has done it in this time. Now you gotta you gotta have a right to be baillio cohen. So you know there's giving you that's given uterit- advice right now. No one is giving james invites. He's not really represented by no one. No one is this gonna tell them. You can't do this or you can't say this this that other. Let me have this when you go to the media you address it this way and like i said that was the big difference between what would intimate date. The giants did obviously was two different situations. But you know. I think you know the rich paul and he was telling man. Look this is how we're going to help. They don't wanna trade. You still got to show up to work. Still go out there. Play your tail off organization. Do what you're supposed to do so right now james harden. He's not getting right by man like yeah too many guys in his corner telling them what he wanted to now would he needs you. Yeah that's a great point. it often goes overlooked. When you're talking about lebron and that can't that's not just lebron Taking wild shots this shit he wants to happen. There's a brain trust there like he's surrounded my really smart dudes that are that have high business acuras like they have a plan in a strategy that they execute Perk let me ask you. Let's say james. Hardy gets what he wants. And it's out of town. And he's been rumored to like brooklyn or that he wants to go to brooklyn. He opened it up this morning. And talked about miami milwaukee a little bit if you could take him anywhere like what do you think is a good fit for that skill set. Because like i'm i'm gonna keep a. I don't know that i'm sold on dropping him just in anywhere with what he requires in terms of usage. Rate and shit. So what do you see per as a good fit for him. So i i kinda see like philly. But if jane toy go to philly or gonna be a title contender not really i. Don't i still have the books in the nitsa ahead to them. Possibly the heat and the celtics. They will be writing things but they wouldn't be favorites to come out of these his day. I look around the league in play. Gm the day in this is the team that makes the most sense to me. The clippers lie it. I don't know why haven't the the phone on the if he did. I don't know. But if i lost frank i'm picking up the phone and i'm making an offer to see a big old bite on paul. Joyce what else. I could give up james. I would learn to seek. While limiting james l. together. That would be a nice says. The will a nice a nice s. Do who really like it. If the rockets was the garlic loop was right now do lowest price say no net. I wouldn't know logan murdoch. Would it wait at. Yes i would i would do that do you. I don't know. I just. I don't know in a situation that he's going to get everything he wants outside of houston man like if you take him even put them on the nets right. You're giving him with two other ball dominant players. Who need to ball does that. I don't i don't think brooklyn work's gotta work like you looking at you look at the state all over again like with this. Go on powell light you looking at a big three light. That he got were so i'm listen. I tend to agree with you per indict like with that moscow and punch. You're going to win a ton of fucking games like there. You just can't help win. A ton of fucking gave where we were me and logan balk at it. A little bit is ultimately getting over the hump in terms of like. Whose ball is it when crunch time comes when we meet team. That's that's like the lakers. Like is there any friction. There be late look james and career would have to take a backseat to kevin durant like if things got the katie is like now katie. Go to work just like I don't know if they could do like steph klay but it would have to take a back seat light stuff great gear like. Hey look we got. Arguably the best elvis touchdown basketball writing agenda yes. I'm james harden guess. I'm career not yet. We be talking about katie. You've gotta move way gilda nepal. You gotta sacrifice at the end of the day. Where does he ended up real quick. Man i don't know i'll tell you what i don't see the rockets train him in its own so not not in the next few weeks i think they give it twenty twenty five games before they decide to make a move ever to try to get this relationship right line. They go deo china. Fix this trying to make it right. So i don't know alison as another chance. That like james harden might like it's a hiti or something like go on beaches like if he gets desire any. Is there any. Is there any chance of that. Because that's another thing right like he. He's building his power right now. I got to report to camp right now. I want. I want to do it. Is there another instance where he gets fed up about something. Maybe trays are going and he just he. They better not do shit. He do this but he to me. James is trying to be a this day. Dennis rodman right each He loves hanging around celebrities and shit like that right and i mean he do do do do you. But i don't get. I don't get it. I don't i don't get the whole baby. Two hundred beds in the billy was like why are you giving. Somebody has already reached one hundred bands. Like but i do daily world. We just trying to have fun. I want to ask a quick one because what gets lost in that whole dynamic with what's going on with houston right now is russ And being in washington in. I want to ask you because i don't know russ well but i'm a fan of what he does. I'm a fan of the way you know. He competes for every little possession right. People have their own narrative on whether like that can win ultimately like. I'm not getting into all of that shit per tell me what type of teammate and duty is number one And then talk me about like how he's going to be either beneficial or not beneficial for bradley beal and his ascension in the nba. Right now is i'm gonna tell you. This is a great dude man. great teammate. He just he's a competitor. And russ russ gets you sweat right when you walk into the arena. You on a road. You want nancy any jemele in court. Do have it in your mind. That i got russell westbrook. I like my chances on winning basketball game. Because you know he's gonna compete. You noted every day you have a chance to win if a healthy russ is on its eight because a spirit that he plays with and when you think about it kobe. Brian bliss a lot of people but he blessed russell westbrook dead mob mentality because he really got it as obligated situation with with with the wizards scott brooks. You've got robert pack over the two guys that Familiar with and that he trust and respect for the whole year. Mccown right and i'm looking at brandon. Build a guy that average thirty last season i feel like russ going to taint The kid that they just drafted in lottery eight. You know he's gonna be okay like in his first year. I think he's gonna sign as oh. I saw him looking at the situation. I'm like russell do what he did for. Pg two years ago he could do that for bradley beal and had been mvp conversation. I if you look at brand new. Bill paul george to me that insane caliber player like they both could get buckets. Like is not a bit different so you would a bradley beal guy who don't need the ball in his hands will play off the ball. Roses gopher daiki is back. And i could possibly see him having the best season of his real russell. Westbrook see park. I don't know if. I i don't know if ross helps necessarily the wizards in i i think that the got the better end of that deal. Because you know walls coming off that that achilles. But i just don't i don't know if they're gonna be a top team in in the east like that. I see them as like maybe five or six. You see them. As you see the wizards now as a contending team because wrestling team right now. I say as tender but i see them as a oklahoma city team. That was left hander. Competitive today they sneak and when it's all said being the top five but the eastern conference and could be a dangerous out for anybody in the play offs like you look along senior team. That is from his fassi's with chris. Follow like the rockets could take them to a game. Set me get them out of the you know what i'm saying. I could see that happening with the woods. Just looking at make with eighteen I just think the frustrating would. And i may an contrary to popular belief. I'm a big russell westbrook fan because you know this effort he puts into the game and just how he plays with a reckless. Abandon acting get with but when you get down the stretch and you get to those aolad vice threes that they're just giving them and you know what i mean. They've just given him the three ball and he's just making terrible decisions down the stretch. He did that. A lot and now lakers series and they were letting him shoot. Where do you think that he can do. You think he could ever just overcome that part of his game. Nowhere dude like you're open for a reason. Make the right basketball play. Well i get right. I get what you're saying but we have to realize that russ wasn't healthy. This past season in the playoffs like he was healthy. He was playing to- on core muscle like a six to eight weeks As only out for two weeks so a lot of people don't allow people forget will rush was doing before the pandemic aim covy and code and call it any echo was the league up. I'm talking about you know what i'm like. dominator league. He was leading the league and posted a paint. So you look at russ a it relies on athleticism out like his first delta's everything. I'm getting to iraq in finnish. Noble beads and he's not. He's not a hundred percent healthy or even sixty percent healthy. Of course he's gonna have to take jump shots or of course he's gonna have to take those threes because he's not able to blow by god's will give meal a healthy worse like two years ago two years ago before you know before nine year that the dining hall because he was hurt and he was he was playing on bernie but before the like the rest that weight gain utah. Forty five in close game with joyce disappeared unita and we assume hilton of the playoffs is a proud all right. Let me i want to go. You know i. I liked that i fuck with ross to and and the threes you're talking about logan i if somebody is going to back up now i'm not talking about like i don't know the percentages that he takes how many you gotta shoot a fucking three like you gotta keep somebody honest like cages. Be out there turning down shots. Because you're afraid miss him were the numbers. Don't suggest you make them so some of those. He's gotta shoot. But i want to switch gears because we're in the east and go to the sixers perk and you've got a lot of experience with You know you guys want to championship together. What does he bring to that. Sixers team Especially since they kept those big together. People were debate and as the weather not they worked together. Like what is doc immediately bring. When he walks in that building that they were missing he brings latest show as we all we all know especially in the bubble with his own own off the court docket a great league right doctor. Have you believe in it you can live. They want to a brick wall. Like that's how as powerful his mr deals but his office of changes like if you look at that team's throughout the course his career the players that he had to coach. And you look at. What done the doc rivers like a joy. He played some of the best basketball of his career with dot royals. That was put him in position to be successful. And i'm looking at a lot of people don't realize this but only with the celtics to hear that we wanted runaway show jump. Shots dot was actually Position to be successful so he wouldn't be allowed on the court not doing the same thing for bid since like all you need to shoot the ball. No he don't. He don't is other ways of sixteen. Two hundred and fifty pound guy can impact the game without shooting out soon. Jobsites especially a guy is dead athletic and of facilitated could get to the rim has Nice host moves. You know ally thread. The basket is ways to utilize that. And i think doc is not put him. Joe imposition Do you think this move is too Too late for this six. This iteration at a sixers to get doc in or is it just at the right time because it feels like looking at the sixers they were always you know like over the warriors. The sixers had seen philly was one of the cities that we booked for the finals. Every year right just because they have enough talent to go there but it always seemed like they underachieved for whatever reason and it was always. Maybe you could throw it at brett brown maybe and other things but do you think that they needed to change right after this right time or maybe a couple years before from the coaching not the hitting right at the right time always felt like it was bred brown. I felt like egypt given the opportunity to coach his team. And it was a net when you when you hear all these players come out in a lash out of bra. Think about it. You had a jimmy bug you had you know al horford even tobias harris all these guys will come out and shoot subliminal slugs and brett brown as sooner or later if i give it to with ten people and in two years sooner or later. It ain't the ten people that got a proud mislead. I got a problem because all these people is not. Just you know medicine would be is me. I address myself. So i feel like you know with with coaching. Change is gonna do wonders for not only joe ill and and being but also survive hairs so by is played some of his best basketball underdog routes before he got traded. When he was with the club we was on new. Lastly dan also right. So here's i got a question for. I have my own opinion on it and i'm not going take take the conversation with the what is joel. Embiid i mean just a talent oozing out of the pores Merging on like superstar. But in my opinion hasn't taken that step into superstardom yet from your perspective. What does he need to do to take that next. Step like what's the next step for joel. Embiid is only one. He asked to lose about thirty five hundred dollars like he. You cannot be floating around three hundred pound range. I don't i don't give a damn. I've let i ju able to move that weight light. If he lose thirty five pounds getting the best shape of his life talking about joey. B bend the. Mvp that's dominated. He is from inside to the outside light. He's a dominant force and he's a generation of town but he has to be in shape. You agree with that. Yeah he needs to. He look he he just where you could see him through the course of game just wear out right and i think the reason he floats on because mine is too part. I think he needs to be less. Fifty fifty and more seventy five twenty five million. He needs to take his ass on that block. Seventy five percent of the time. Twenty five percent on a perimeter. You know like. I know is easier to just sit out there. A shoe jumpers when you're out of breath so like you don't wanna go down there a bank anymore because you got the extra weight so i think it. All kind of goes hand in hand right day. Play against the celtics down in the boat like yeah he was getting his twenty five and twelve the night he was given up forty on like they killed picking on by bring a boat not growing and is good like they win. The drought ages. is the shot like. He was dead tired road to get some shape. It's a good point. Let's let's take a quick break. And i want wanna talk about brooklyn when we get back. This episode is brought to you by duracell. Durazo optimum is no ordinary battering compared to dora so copper top durazo optimum can give some of your devices extra life or extra power like longer playtime or better performance. Durazo made these batteries differently from how they've done it before with the proprietary cathode system that sets them apart battery technology to the next level. Plus they come in convenient packaging with the russillo storage trade. Help keep you organize. Don't change your batteries. Upgrade your device with duracell optimal which can deliver extra power and some devices or extra life others in a wide range of devices. See how duracell optimum can upgrade your devices. Learn more at dorsal dot com. There's a lot to be thankful for this holiday season me. I'm thankful for snuggle season. You know what time it is under fifty degree weather. You know how it is in the bay. You got your hoodie on. You got you jacket. You've got your blanket. You know the vibes you know you do when you were real also sports basketball's coming back during the holiday season basketball's back but it can be hard to put a thank you on all those things into words. Luckily you don't have to say patrol but shown is perfect for holiday cocktails. It makes great gifts for friends family and yourself. It's handcrafted in small batches making it the perfect drink for small gatherings plus it's verified at an free so you know you're getting one hundred percent but thrones akilah. This holiday sale would return. Tequila visit patrol tequila dot com learn more. The perfect way to enjoy patrol is responsible. Copyright twenty twenty thrown its traits rest and be logo are trademarks handcrafted in mexico imported by the patrol spirits company in coral gables. Florida tequila forty percent. Alcohol by volume. And we're back so one thing. I do want to switch gears a little bit of stay in the eastern conference but as i was doing this. Podcast roger i kept realizing perga- hella former teammates hell of former team donald right. So it's so. It's so easy to go from tamed. Team just get his opinion on things. But i to how that happens when you have a long successful career bro teammates. Let's oakland soldiers influence. You know what. I'm saying anyway. But i do wanna talk about brooklyn and two players that you have played with and have been around closely park kevin durant and kyrie irving now. A lot of people are saying that they're contenders right now. They're going to be contenders. I am of the mind that the nets have one of the most talented rousers in the east. However i just haven't seen anyone come back from an achilles. The way the way i i think kevin should come back from it. I guess and i'm just skeptical. That one of the worst injuries in sports happen to one of the best players in the league and the best player on that team in the guy that's prob- that would get them to the eastern conference finals or finals if healthy. I'm just kinda skeptical on that. And i don't know if kyrie is the one to hold down the fort. If kevin doesn't get all the way healthy am. I am i am i. Am i fair to say that. I mean this fell like i mean you sound like mets kilolam right now. Almost alway achilles injury you do not come back from but i think katya guy that is just a walking buggy like i said before this guy is is something that we never seen before in seven one way ease able to have the appeal trade. His own shot get separation. Get his shot off. Turn arousal over. Both shoulders is nothing he could do. How many do office resolve looking at katie. And i might be seventy five percent healthy. It's a problem right it. Did you have another file our over there brooklyn with low. Burt hispasat dinwiddie. In calgary that katy grassley keep picking thing go all the course of the season. Keep building going into the playoffs. So i'm looking at it like katie to get the those reps in you know from gain won the game twenty where. He's not playing a lot of minutes. Gaza able to come in and contribute in the high level. These abela work yourself into playing game shape and getting his grove back and he stays healthy. It's going to be proud. Yeah i think that like if anybody had the game to recover from an achilles the type of style of play. It's kevin i think that if there but he has to do it in my eyes right like he has to did sit at point. Do you believe that one. I think you know everything ever. He's gone ball but you've also been critical of kyri. Do you think that kyri in working with them. This is a question to both of you. Guys how one. How was it working with them and do you think that his mindset can fit with this brooklyn team going forward a made. My thing is not right with him and kevin and yonder joy night day. Best right they best friends so you know some people that he will listen to his probably. They'll he may not listen to nobody else in the world. But you probably is gonna listen to kevin durant and dre joe and so. That's a plus on man. Then i don't have our coverage on the i have a problem with something. Shady say off the court and some of the city do all the court i had rob where young as a plan because i feel like he's probably one of the most skilled player will years the one of the most blood sample touch the best. So i'm looking at. I don't see an issue and by the way kyrie years the right so he knows what it takes to win. You know in a high level. He knows what he needs to do to sacrifice to put in hard work so despite everything i disagree with him about with eagle off the court he still held s la per. I say this all the time because two people you know off from the outside looking in you know. Cairo looks like he's good right. And so people think that Kyrie shikano no when he gets kevin durant or lebron that he needs to defer. My point is like i've been in gym watching kyrie and lebron together. When when people of lebron and k d's ilk see what kyrie can do they're like god damn that's a that's some different shit like he's doing good with the ball so like it's not as easy for kirita. Just take a back seat because motherfuckers look at cairo interlude. Goddamn like i need to get some of that in my game like shit. Is that crafty. But i'm with you somebody. Shit he does off the court I think it could be a little immature and and you know i. It's sometimes counterproductive. What you're trying to do my question locker room with with kyrie who i classify not necessarily a leader but not a follower either just a guy who's kind of in his own lane And kevin durant from all accounts. Like i don't know him that well either is more is more of a quiet leader. Not the vocal guy. Do they have to find manufacturer. Somebody in that locker room with the voice. If it's not going to be kyrie and kevin really isn't in that lane unless you tell me he is. Who's going to do that. Who's gonna be the voice of reason in their locker room honestly believe is going to be eighty katie katie. He's proven to me. And i've been around a mountain that he showed me that. He's not afraid of being vocal leader He's a he's a guy that you know when he was in golden state you know. He wasn't his job to build. Vocally here out to be. But he can if he if he's acts all yes to be like. It's not afraid to call anybody. I donate shit. He's not afraid to say what he feels to someone. andrei Will night that's the type of guy. Katie yields right. you know. And he's the he's he's a coach of a guy like a coastal in see nasty. Go in and get on him and film and he's not gonna give no bad body language he's gonna take it like a man and and he's gonna go out on the quoted in cleaning it up so i'm looking at eighty and i'm expecting him to be delayed a business team Guys to follow his especially coury. Why didn't i mean you. You brought up lebron and kyri earlier. Why didn't network park like why you know like lebron seems to be the the team guy that brings everyone together. Why did not not work in cleveland. I dunno to me is it almost felt like a of jealousy was on sport. Like because you have to realize comrie was. He was the guy before. Brian guy deal. Although cleveland Lottery dan gill. County was the head of the snake number number-one option on the broad came out with. Say your content will also lebron gets special. Britain's right but who gives a damn like every team i've been on the number one option on the franchise guys get Right but a robin robin is not going to get the same privileges of is just not so career. Broad you know where he used to have of his personal of his personal trying to come in and went workout. Detained china would have his own medical guy his own fitness guy. That will begin a lot woman so cari kinda wooden villainy you will see recomend with his own medical guide his own strain conditioning. Got us Handle like we. I witnessed that and so he was trying to measure at bela bra and so bad instead of just basically Following his lead because albro trying to do is show carried Ropes and taking mondays wings. It was so many times that lebron deferred sakaba Tako and was cold with rice. Collated like now we go put the ball hands and he was okay with not close down because he wasn't glitch because he knew what he had guy raid lights go. Hey don't do so. It was hard for me to a is hard for me to say what really went on. But i know from what i saw that can read. Provinces got signed braun is special privileges but he's iconic figure. Would you expect what the fuck like so look. What the fuck are we talking about the way i described it was like big brother. Little brother right like kyrenia really liked the little brother thing but it wasn't. It wasn't a forever like little brothers. Grow up to be big brothers. Two so lebron was doing what you're supposed to do for someone who has seen the mountaintop yet but has the ability to to to be a mountaintop player on his own team was showing him the way like trying to trying to give him the answers to the test. And i think kyrie just didn't love the fact that he was the younger brother in a scenario like it was cool for a minute and he wanted. He didn't want it anymore but it was before he got all the answers per like he did before he got all the answers right and went to boston and found out that it wasn't at ease. It wasn't that easy right. And it was is is real fucked up though because i feel light cavalry really blew. Chaz him abroad and possibly went into more rain. steel will does. There's a lot of things. This lebron go to. La if kyrie stays or kyrenia or kyrie bison a bit more. I don't know i to be honest. They rose nearly like i think once his contract was up especially after the lead ship. I mean we all know the relationship. Broadening in gilbert has like. It's no secret like that's why that's why he's trying to tell people about the word pressure like dan gilbert in the bronx wasn't speaking one another like they will walk past each like. We have to go through nate. Dan's business partner to to any fucking information. They were going to dan. Yeah anything like it was like you know. They're given what happened. Vet lebron showed up it would just it was when it was. But i'm gonna come here. I'm a liberty championship. Play this game at the highest level for the city of cleveland for the state of ohio. And he did news like no. I said i want to be fair to cairo. Because i i think he's a really smart data alternately like and the f- he might have had a little bit more insight into what purchase said lebron being out and he might have wanted him. Did you just me trying to play devil's advocate. He wanted to beat him to the point. Like what shit. You're not going to. Just leave me holding the bag and cleveland. So i gotta go. That could be another theory. I don't know why. Gwen logan do you think that do and i also want thing. Do you think that kyri horry's we both know that. Kyrie's idol is kobe. Bryant right and play. It seemed to a played out in a similar way with with kobe. Where he's like. I don't want to be low brother no more to check. I don't wanna do that. I wanna have my own team. You think that kyri saw that and was like well. This is how it has to be done. Yakin wind ships with with brom. But this is the group print that i've set. I gotta go do it on my own. Well that's a good question. But no one knows was on in congregate light this is. This is the reason that we're talking about them because of the things that he's done. He said that he say like how he goes about. Like for example you know he. He writes of he issues out of public statement that media day right at the started training camp like i'm not speaking to the media lagging like. What like whole does that. Everybody goes out and to the media like know what size away from the median public stating like aids out. You does not know. He's a real. Enigmatic a true 'nigma career because again you can have conversations like us it with them on a plane. Sometimes per because i had background with his dad he went to be you and i played at bu and so there was a little bit of trust there just a little bit. Because you know if you don't have it from kyrie he's not talking to you at all. So i got to sit with him on a plane a few times a picture. He's a really smart bill like they're real shit going on there and then there are other times where he does shit like that. And you're like why if you were that smart. Why would you like. There's no reason to do that type of shit so it was like is really really hard to get a beat on that shit. Well how can you follow a guy that you can't really understand right who doesn't let you in. That's my thing. how do you do that. But that's why. I asked perk like like i never really saw kyrie as a true leader like i see kyrie as as like kyri because sometimes is hard for me to follow to in my opinion like so. You have to have somebody with cairo lead. Kyri can be this fantastic phenomenal scoring like basketball player. But in terms of true leadership and identity you have to have someone with him spot in the greatest thing is is that i stay down street from qadri when i was in cleveland. Light literally three four houses down. And i like our read Problem like he was cooled in every day. And then all of a sudden you know like those eagles man a cagey told me this way. Long time ago problem will win. A championship is that everybody thinks that was the reason. Why right like when you win a championship. Alison your ego is like when the wonder that would be like it has to be fair to be fair though to be fair though kyri they win without i mean. He is valid in that statement. Right thing because everyone's still dumping tom. Low blight jefferson said then because he played hughes minutes like every role bill player. That played for cleveland during soccer to say. Hey it wouldn't without me tristan thompson. He said saint fakir per saying like. Oh that's right. Offer to put on put off players backs we all carry a different level. The weight but without again carry you. Don't get up. The hill says that was that was philosophies. And you put you put show backpack rouser. Just saying he's right though 'cause a lot of people just and so when you win a championship everybody likes. I was the res and so all of a sudden not read on one play with bronco. He don't wanna be clean. You want to eat tired of being Channels so he you know i'm a goal. Do me obviously went to boston. We know turned out right. But i want to ask about lebron lakers. But i'm more interested in in in real quick. And i'm gonna let you do that. Logan who was 'cause you just touched on kate cagey and you play with a lotta gray. Who was had the most profound impact on like who you became as a player like not just skill wise per but like who you were in the locker room like who who who was your vet that molded you. It was. It was walsum local. It was it was waiting before cagey see people. People gotta realize. I always say these as a rookie. You wanna be blessed to walk into a lot one. Would you have great vets. And i did my first year. I had lost. Mccartney tony dill. Tony t. eric williams. I guys that actually showed me the way on how to do. Aides how to go about things on and off the wall to mccartney was just like you know he to mandated under his wing and was just like it's okay to be who you law like. It's okay to be a screen seller. It's okay to be guided just rebounds anchor defense like beagle you up. And he was like everyone can't be also said me donald delight. Everyone can't be also the guys they're trying to be also is not also they have a short career either. You wanna play template shoes and bill starting your role all you could play three years trying to also at number four. Which gets he always used to say. Get to legislate but you'll role gets a beep. Profession so watson mccartney was like that they got it took meal this wing shelving roads from since day one it show laddis house bar size on a row is right there. I can't even say when rosita strong on braun. he's going in a year eighteen. How is how is he going to be able to be. This season. healthwise Just getting through with low management and things like that and how was he going to be able to win a title under the circumstances. Look first of all. You can't be bringing a lot management and they already own this life. You see the league already. Cracking down on may be bringing shit up. Look ron brown is don't be okay. Right we rows you notice men a guy that investors into his body. You know discipline. Who's gonna do all the right In away from basketball when he goes home with these at a restaurant so we already know this. But you've got gotta look at. What rob pelinka t to this team. You go out and go. Get a mantras herald. Dennis schroder of wesley matthew. You had all these pieces you go get the six year in the six member of the six year. Run a right and you will get both of these guys to take down the hill. Repeat but to take that low often abroad day. So i wouldn't be surprised. Broad take taking even been the backseat issue. Like alleged destroyed in. Hey the so get dressed. Come fifteen sixteen night. You know what i'm saying. Be cool getting his twenty one or twenty two night. You know what. I mean like i might not have to play all these days I've i've i've never seen a have their two people in my career who i saw dedicate time to their body where i was never worried about. It was steve nash Who had his own personal guidelines. Lebron does and they would be in there actor everything you did on off days no matter what but the body was the was the of what they were spending the time like they were really fixing every little can machine to make sure ran smoothly I think what you're witnessing. Perk is like the relationship we talked about with kyrie and lebron and how that never matured big brother. Little brother become big brother. Eventually i think you see that happened with lebron a d. and an a. d. is receptive to it. So do you know what. I'm saying. So i agree with you in that. Lebron continues to take baby steps back. It protects his body it protects his ability to be freshened playoffs and protects his ability to win championships riding off into the sunset to hop on that point. The worst thing that could have happened for the nba is is leading. Anthony davis go with. He went through last year to win a championship. The the highs and lows light you know when he was getting called for nine attacking the basket in the series in all of a sudden he dan dominate this series. He got called out in a rocket. Series leadbeater Go all of a sudden. It was harassed chicken. I night right. So did you go back. You go to the denver series where he does do whatever he wants a big junkie site. He added his way and then owns a the by you at in everybody. You know that was trying to stop you in. The miami needs series and you let guy like anthony dates yet. It tastes of blood. And he's grown by one of the brightest sale the do it alabama giants. And he's been and he's and he's okay with like he's he's he's fowler. Lebron league everywhere you go everywhere will goes you see anthony days. And he's okay with me like he should be okay like up here so me us like he was like look. I see your rondo during your angle. Why are you not hanging out with h. E. i say what you mean. This one k g. I got any like or you have future hall of fame for you. One of the best powerful will play the game. One of the best beat man. They'll play the game unite under his wing trying to figure out how to give battle he can his brain. I was like what would have made a lot of sense. Like why not ever will every will is it. You know what i'm saying. So anthony davis man. I really to be honest. I feel like he's done a win. Mvp sees so. What's the biggest difference between because we talk about this all the time. Raza gas on my head. coach the lakers versus the clippers. Last season is the. This is the first time. I talk to you publicly about this. Why why did the superstar duo work. More with the lakers than the clippers. Because the clippers stuck they chest out. Everybody said oh. They're the deeper tame nowadays. Now they have internal issues. What went wrong on that side and away that it's in a way that it didn't go wrong in with the lakers. Because was was doing all the balkan no bait in. I said this time and time again it will. You guys will happen hopping over the fence and finding out the dull was just balking go bite. They was going over the fences. Go get a ball. Walk straight out. The fried doke taking the dogs on little might include us about their life. Once was gas thought. Cd that was all the front they started. You know what. I'm saying like the denver nuggets. Once they started they could get to gain bob in game six game seats and it was like home guys really built like they did all of a sudden they started swagger so you look at lebron in a deep but you really couldn't could have all joys kuwata in a dnr. And i said this time and time again. That the reason i didn't trust the clueless was because i didn't trust paul george and it was only all the time what he don't thunder like. I told you in a close game with the utah jazz Then have forty five. I'll points and i watch. Paul george just like you know have these lapses would just disappear the big modes so. I'm like you know what. I really don't trust the of light. Show ny real. It was like i see you rolling with the lakers arm. But yeah he's not. Because y'all know i don't just bound georgia's that's fantastic. Because i'm with every day every day. You just fucking said and on. Top of the lakers had the two best players in the lakers. Were like you're talking about lebron kuwa- acquired gray and paul georgia's nice. But i mean come on. I'm gonna go with lebron eighty period Now i want to ask because he brought up tie and and you know like i had a little bit of experience with tied lou to think. He's fantastic Do you worry at all about the clippers. And if you're going to let doc rivers go all right and that message isn't working right. Are you worried at all. Not about lose ability to coach. Because i think that's unquestioned but the message and being kind of the same like if you're going to let go of one message. Do you worry that you brought in a very very similar message. Right behind. It was quite Wouldn't a message. There should have got five right. It was inevitable of doctoral. He was just a scapegoat. You know what i'm saying. Could you george come out. Say things like oh he was trying to use me like ray out in in all this. That's a lie because not new. You wouldn't rayon. Rail is now missile wider breeze. Getting side of the back will ray of and also. I'm looking at it. And i'm like you know what that was. The scapegoat a high loop. Now the pressure's on players like this is what you got especially choline. Pg like it's time for yard to the levin. Doc said it best. You know blaming me but guess what title was sitting right on the side of me. It ain't gonna be too much because i raised right. Yeah yeah okay before we get out of here. Let's assume fund real quick for you. Park mean you talk pretty frequently and do bring up the oh eight celtics about as much as i bring up and i wanna play a game which you. I'll throw team out there and you're gonna tell me if the celtics beat them as i cou is fine. That's fine the nineteen ninety-six bulls that was a litmus test for me per full disclosure going to lose all credibility stuff all right all right. The two thousand lakers. Nah we wouldn't beat the two thousand lights although look out of the best defenders in the league is go out is no way i was stopped. No right right we. We didn't have an answer for set like nobody. Nobody did know by the the twenty. Twelve miami heat it will be Okay all right. The twenty seventeen golden state warriors big onto. How would you guys have seventy they want. This is won't say how. I wanna see how you do it. I wanna i wanna hear your the strategy. How would you do it. I mean because is you can talk about katie. I'm gonna talk about paul pierce in two thousand eight. All peers had to go through some bounce like he went to joe johnson. He went through the braun. he went colby. He went to a stingy detroit pistons team. Who would stay joan. The defense Was one that you're talking about. Forty four balls in a series like close out games. He was ready to go told to so with some of the greatest. You look at k. Golden state wouldn't have the acid. Kim garnett a great like those for so a twenty thousand twelve type night. Would you forget about you. Know ray with the did his thing but you forget about like yes. We had some real gorillas on a bitch Anyhow samco sale he jake brown. James posing tony allen big baby boy from the baillio tabbies. We will stay. We will stay. I necessarily agree with you. But i got one more for you. Look i got one more for the two thousand is six sons who wins that six. You're you're you're a sebescen. Petty gets out man. Yeah that's the petty shit. Look you guys would have been kryptonite kind for us. Just because of the size of the physicality and the ability to slow down like what teams didn't have against us was the ability to make us really slow down a guard in the ones that did gave us fits like dallas. Gave us fits with that shit San antonio gave us with that shit. You know what i mean. It was the teams that tried to play like us that we fucked up. So i you know but you know you don't want to say that because we we were able to go small we were able to go. Small will put kgb at the file and we put giants posad full and then we will rock out like that. And i just feel like will will will. Another thing is that. I don't know what rondo had overseas nash by dwags playing real every matched up with steve nash. He added this way every single by. He witnessed the mass. I don't know would what was it about it. But if he got up for the match up but he went at steve nash. And then i'm just looking at you know powerade y'all i i think it could have been a good one. It win seven games for show and we would have wanted. Yes yeah all right man. let's go to. Let's go to ruin it a week now. Part row wanted a week as a person an entity a nation. That got your respect. this week. i will go first. Raza will go second in you. Our guest best for last go. You'll go last my ruin it. A week is karl anthony towns. Who has gone through a lot. This summer with his mom passing said his uncle passed. He said he had seven family members. That past of covid the fact this man can still play. It still even be remotely available when he doesn't have to be at that show strength. I think that shows courage. And i think that he is my real dean. You should've went last with that without download. I'm up next all right. Well this is going to be corny but I'm going with the big ten as my real one of the week. ohio state michigan canceled. Ohio state only got what four games under their belt. Technically they shouldn't be allowed to play in the big ten championship but if they weren't allowed to plan it would it would not allow them to qualify probably for the national championship. And the big ten. Faulk that we need our bread. We need to be represented top four. They're going to play in the fucking big ten championship. And that's not as all the way illinois man's basketball. They beat duke like two days ago. So the real ones of this week. Because i didn't go to college but i mean i'm i'm like sixty percents world war. I really don't like do. I just have something personal against go in all the do players. I don't know what it is but you know when they lose this is like this is like a sense of joy you get right so ill annoys man ms basketball program. They went on and gave Isn't it's they. They want by twin so smoke room. They go rolling. Labib park man. You know what it is. I really appreciate you coming on the show. We really appreciate you coming on a shelf friend of the show come back at anytime in and That is the podcast. You can check us out on spotify. You can check us out wherever you get. Your podcast makes you tap in sort mismatch. You tap into group. Chat tablets a ringer music. Show when my guy charles homes. He's really really good at did something to start off with Following my that the following the creation of my dark twisted fantasy by kaya west really really dope podcast You can listen to. Ours are to see to with with bay. Legisi cease a bath. Year and d'oeuvres just happened to all of us are ringer. podcasts man. We'll see you guys on monday. Thanks for listening.

james harden lebron james giants basketball russ bradley beal russell westbrook brooklyn logan houston rockets kyrie kevin durant katie sixers anthony davis houston roz bell brett brown walter mccarty
Episode 19  Part 1 of 3  Virtual Tradeshows and Alternatives: A Guide for Medical Marketers

Medical Device Success - Your Success is Our Mission!

1:30:07 hr | 11 months ago

Episode 19 Part 1 of 3 Virtual Tradeshows and Alternatives: A Guide for Medical Marketers

"Hello everyone, and welcome to episode nineteen of the medical device success podcasts in this happens to be a video cast to. The question. How to life science companies go forward and succeed in a world of virtual congresses and trade shows. Well, that's the subject matter of a three part series that we've put together on virtual trade shows and alternatives. In I'm really pleased to be teamed up with Lisa Vissel and the Pixel Medical Marketing Group for this effort. It's a lot of work and I think we have some valuable information to share. Medical Associations, and medical device companies, life science companies, or working in a very challenging environment. As most of the Congress's in trade shows have been canceled through the end of this year and perhaps too early next year. So how do we go forward on this three part series? This first part is. A medical. GUIDE FOR MEDICAL MARKETERS The second part of the series where we talked to leaders of the healthcare exhibiting and events ecosystem to get their perspective on what is going on and their advice as to what we should look for going forward into the future. In the third episode. Of the series, we talked to doctors to find out where they stand and what this means to them in how they intend on participating. This is going to be valuable information and I'm sure you're going to enjoy it. Let. Me Be clear. This first episode is law. In. You may want to break it up into twenty minute segments, thirty minutes segments as you listen to it, and if you view it, but it's full of very important information. So let's get started. And welcome everybody to this first of its kind for me, which is a podcast and video cast. So it'll be split into podcast. Hopefully, people will be able to understand most of what we're talking about by listening, but the video cast is going to have some slides which. Provides a really important context detail and highly recommend that you go that and so today's. Video cast podcasts done in conjunction with the Pixel Mark Medical Marketing Group A, terrific crew of people out in the Colorado area that served med tech companies life science companies in it's called virtual trade shows in alternatives a guide for medical marketers, and so this is important whether you're a marketing person or a salesperson you really need to understand. How virtual trade shows work our first experiences with them and so on. And so today in addition to my south the host, Ted Newell we've Got Lisa. Pixel who's the CEO of Pixel Medical Marketing Group and we have Lauren Desmond who is the events leader at Pixel Medical Marketing Group. So we got two very experienced people helping and they've really helped put together terrific program for us to share today. Lisa Lauren Welcome. Thanks for inviting us. It's nice to be back because I know earlier in the spring, we had discussions about you know thinking ahead what would be the future What might the year play out to be you know and now seeing some of it in our rear view mirror in it's interesting some of the evolution. So Nice to share that today. It's you're very nice. It's interesting and disturbing. All right. There you go. You have Aleutian just because when you and I talked and let's let's move sorta to the objectives. You know when I talked back. Then we were talking about looking at the virus as short term event that something that might affect us for two or three months that we probably had the back half of the year where we could still participate in trade shows and we know how important they are from the standpoint of getting actionable leads and actual sales on the trade show floor. And then a couple more months goes by and the advice we gave is no longer applicable. So we're here to give new advice, right? Well, that's exactly right. It feels like it is and we'll be continuing to be a rolling horizon. Where you can only be as accurate as maybe sixty days ninety days out because things are going to be. So radically different perhaps or you know what you think might be reverting back to normal. Might, not play out exactly as you forecasted. So so yeah, I'm I'm questioning whether or not. We get too far out in our predictions because it gets really busy. Exactly exactly and I. Know. Some meetings of tried to indicate that they would be in person in the late winter end or indoor spraying. But. As covid nineteen continues to roll around in this country who knows but. But. Right now we are the situation is that. Everybody has pretty much gone virtual. There's no in person. At least the United. States. Europe. Pacific Graham. No in person meetings through the end of the year. You know. A for some of our clients that's not necessarily the case learning talk about that right actually confirmed for patient in Florida the day. This last week I confirmed with they do in fact, intend to live meeting they are moving forward they are dedicated to this, and they are just taking precautions a. p. p. e. n. social distancing, but they fully intend to to have a live meeting in December and they're already lost on hotel and a venue space as well. To me probably isn't so surprising providing that most everybody drives right. You're not really getting on a plane especially, if it's a regional program programming will a little bit more about that being probably the future of medical events. But that that probably isn't so odd and another one that we know that it's going to happen. In December as well in New York. City always happens faithfully in. Times Square, right before Christmas on. They're saying that they're going to be in person but likewise, I, feel as if the faculty as long as the local drawn everybody's driving in from the northeast, which is pretty convenient that probably will go off without any challenges with social distancing in masks and everything. So in both of these examples that you're giving are geographically specific meetings, yeah New, York State this Florida state that not yeah. Okay. That's interesting. That is interesting note to know when you're thinking strategically you know looking at the future. Okay. So maybe we can circle back to that more as we're getting into what the strategies tactics. I'm okay. So let's go on and so that's the situation right now, and let's go on to talk about what a virtual trade show looks like. because we've got this big question as he's virtual trade shows come up. How will they implemented or executed? Can you get attention and silence of the big question here is to exhibit or not to exhibit, and eventually what are some alternatives so What is the virtual trade show look like these days and. You guys had some experience with. A big meeting in Europe but then you let's talk through what we see on this particular slotted. Absolutely. So I'm happy to provide more insight asked to a virtual trade show looks like today you know more and more of us are the exposure to virtual trade shows and I recommend any sales marketing professional look outside of your trade show calendar. See what other virtual trade shows you can attend just to experience what they look like in understand what that feels like. So that when it comes to a show where you might be exhibiting in the future, you know what to expect. Nowadays, when we look at virtual trade shows how they work there, really four key elements and virtual trade show from an exhibit perspective will include at least one of these four elements. The first one is advertising opportunities. You can kind of see that down here on the lower left picture with that includes E. Blasts, mailings, website banners, and also ad campaigns, and these were typical when you consider your in person events, and now you can even still as virtual event do virtual column wraps in virtual escalator clings, and you'll see that in a later slide. The second the second element is educational opportunities. These are virtual industry sessions, product images, and videos, and even downloadable resources. These are an attempt to replicate your industry showcases or your product. that. You would have typically in a live event. The third element which were seeing start to come in more and more now is a virtual exhibit. and. You can see that also pictured here you can see that they have little avatars can actually physically manipulate a character virtually to walk up to a booth. Lastly, you're going to see that they're going to be networking opportunities. So these include as pictured here a live chat room or virtual meeting rooms. You can still achieve that one on one interaction with your target audience. Me's are kind of like with a live show would be your in booth conference room or the ancillary meeting rooms that you would have on the edges of the exhibit hall. Okay. Okay. One of the things I think is clear as you and I am Lauren were just looking at earlier is that it's open for interpretation though isn't it virtual trade show like the smaller conference the you're gonNA, step through. Has a vastly different way that they're handling. What is your your quote Unquote Exhibit? Space? Right. There are some that are over the top. It's all three D. as if you have just been. Augmented reality walking onto someone's floorspace. But you know some are handling it much more basically than that as as I know you're gonNA show us with this happen example, right? Right. And I think another thing to talk about when we talked especially about a larger conference at Scott more sophisticated. Opportunities for interaction in virtual trade show world like some of the pictures in this slide you know this one over here, for example, which could be an education area or interaction area with with various parties I think you explained to me that, for example that. which is the big. Radiology. Meeting in Europe that wanted one technical advantage of the virtual exhibit was that if somebody entered an exhibit for one of the companies that had an exhibit. And went up to a station of a product or service they were interested in. In the in the in doing that, they identify themselves. So maybe it some. John can gala from Syria. then. They can immediately bring the Nigerian route to that station from where he or she lives in Nigeria, and they can actually have the local person talk to this visitor at the virtual brute booth with. In a normal in-person meeting, you might not be able to afford to have people from every country in the world come to your booth and participate. Right isn't that normal right we typically for most of our clients in an our own experience working at different companies, we have a binder, we have a binder and we have a scanner and more often than not were taking leads. You know attaching business cards to sheets, filling out forms and things for follow up afterwards for half the people who aren't there presently so that absolutely can be an advantage, but there's a flip side to that. You know that means that all those people have to be somewhere at their computer on alert right and so as as Jeannie worked from seamen says, I love this chasing the Sun. Chasing the sun and whoever's whatever time zone around the world you've got a real challenge in trying to make sure that that works for their schedule. So if we have our SNA that U. S. equivalent of e CR in December, November December, and it central time zone I mean that doesn't quite work while for the representative in Nigeria to be on alert but but yeah, I mean it can work as long as everybody is committed to that kind of coverage. It's true. Yeah. You're right. He added a huge time differences might be two in the morning for semblance Yano some place else in the world. Okay. So let's move on and So, this guy decides great because it sort of gives you a feeling for what a larger one might look like, and we're we'll circle back to various sizes of these shows. Well, let's look at a small conference example, and this is a platform called hop in. which sort of goes with the platform and you can hop into a conference in I saw US IN A. Small Conference. This was a conference where we had a battle hundred twenty genetic specialists, attendance conference virtually, which is pretty good attendance. In it was originally supposed to be held Boston and July. They put it off into August so they could do it virtually. So this is one I personally experienced in my colleague, and I the cost was eight, thousand, five hundred dollars to be a middle level, a sponsor of the meeting, and it just turned out because his all sort of last minute organization for them. It was good because we ended up being one of three sponsors. So we really showed up we stood out nice which is an advantage that. Other companies might benefit from you show you should ask how many other people have paid into sponsor avert a small virtual meeting. I because it could be good. So if we would have done and in person exhibit at the same meeting. It was still cost around one hundred, eight thousand dollars for the bid for the booth space for my colleague defiant from France for me to drive up with equipment to Boston, which is where is going to be held, lodging food, and so on and so forth, it would have cost us. Eight thousand dollars to participate. Would we get virtually We got a ten minute. To all attendees. And they were all there and you would not get that in a regular in-person. Question I have been looking at this is that there are many of these elements like your logo. I would imagine you get logo recognition but which ones these are unique to the virtual where they're obviously working very hard to earn your business as a as a sponsor. Okay. So let's say one downside as the virtual exhibit they they were able to link to downloads to it. So if you had an infant and you had an in person exhibit, you can have ten or fifteen pieces of literature or scientific studies be handing out you might have a video playing in the background or whatever But here on the virtual exhibit it you had you know to download and then links to the company's website. You'll see all this sentiment. So, that would be sort of a downer. So to speak in, of course, the company logo. If you were a sponsor of meeting, you would have that somewhere in their program and so on. So forth. What really was interesting was ten minute presentation. There was a a demo area where they headed introductory video of the company and sense again, there were only two companies are included the videos up. People had only two things to look at. Then, we had a guaranteed introduction by the organizers to five days, and that was from a list of attendees of we took out of the main lists. We gave them about ten or fifteen attendees prioritized in they indeed sent us emails introductory emails to these attendees that we can on. And finally the speed networking. In Spain mortar minute but they had a really well organized speed networking where during the so-called coffee break. People actually network, and you could talk to one person for five minutes than I for five minutes and so on and so forth in exchange. Business Cards. Coming out of this, we actually did really well in this meeting. So let me just go through these really quickly to get and I was GonNa, say you know at first glance you're good deal question eighty, five, hundred, four, hundred, twenty people virtually. I wouldn't have said normally that that was a great deal but it when you look at how hard they were working for your business and how much they valued what your objectives were as well to me it's all of us right going to a medical convention. It's all about access we went to access the you know HCP's. And if we can't do that, it's it pointless to be there if we're not having engagement directly with the physicians or the nurses or the texture whomever administrators, and so your last two bullets on this slide more than make up for that eight, five, hundred dollar price tag sounds like a heck of a deal. Yeah and I think another thing we have to consider is the nature of what we're selling and so our equipment. For, this particular audience is GonNa be anywhere from forty one thousand to sixty thousand dollars. So if we just sell two or three pieces in the next, you know six eight months with more than covered the cost of this. I do believe we'll do that and I think the payoff further in the future is even higher. So I think that's another consideration of weird selling timed oppressors. It would be a bad place to be. Maybe. So. This is a slide of of the reception area area that you can see where the big Arrow is over here this reception. If you look at the navigation column on the Left, this is the section. Area. If you look down through the bottom right, you'll see another big error pointing down. That's our exhibit if they if they click on that, they go to our so-called exhibit them. You'll see another Arrow here in if you scrolled this window up, you would see the schedule come up below of the presentations. In this is the reception. This is what somebody sees when they first enter the enter the conference on this hop in platform. Then, if we click onto the exhibit area, this is the upper half of what somebody season exhibit. Description of a company company logo. There's a couple links where they can request further information. They can go to the company website. Our company linked in page, and then they can also download some resources necessary I thought it was a little bit cheap is that we had two things that we could download but still, but that's our. So called booth it doesn't look like the virtual booths that we just saw a name is slide, which almost look like a real booth. This is more like a like a landing page, and if we go to the bottom half of this rolled up or if we SORTA scroll down, we see the team members people that were here participating in a conference. So that's That's what you go linked to our. So called booth or landing page would be a better way to describe it for listeners. If we come back to the reception area, then you'll see this era era that goes that says demo area in a few go that part of the the navigation then you come to these two. Video links in one of them's ours and it's a short video introduction about three or four minutes long to Metro Vision as a company. And then there's another company here as well, and so that's pretty effective and I thought I like that particular feature. In jump in. If you have a comment, I'm just GONNA try not to kill a lot of time on this. Then the other part of this platform. If you look in the upper right on this, we're back in the recessionary again and you can see the chat column. You can see a polls and you can see a people and you can see in a little account area up there, and if we blow that up in this next slide. You can see that in this example, this is my colleague Jacques Shirley from metrovision. I could send him an invitation to video call. And we would meet right here on the in the main area in a video opens up, and we can actually meet and talk. Just like speed networking or at the bottom of his profile is a place where I could send him a message. And so that sort of a a neat way communication means that they have built-in, and then finally, if we go back to the reception window and we go to the left hand navigation call, there's a stage button. It says stage in those little red thing that says live and that means if I. IF I click on that stage thing, I would go or that stage button excuse me states thing. Is. I would go I go into the actual stage presentation, which you'll see right here in. So I clicked on that button in here is a presentation by the chairman of the of the meeting. Dr Sky. And, I can actually blow this window episode takes up my whole screen. So the details that you see here would be much more clear. So. That's sort of how this navigates around, and then if I go back to this reception screen. When it's time for the coffee, break the networking break where you can do the speed networking. You Reese you refresh the screen and suddenly in-between the stage button and the Demo area button. You'll see a networking button appear and it only appears when there's networking. In you call that speed dating. You know we call that the United States for international listeners measure what you call it. Beat networking in what you click there. You say you're ready to go you click certain command button and before you know it picks of me talking to the leader of the conference in our speed dating session are speed networking session. And what you can't you might be able to see. It might be under my control here, but there's a thing that says connect in extend at least. You can actually extend the conversation if you're really deep into something in I had to do that a couple of times because of what we were talking about with people, and then if you click connect you exchange business cards and now you have their email like a nice. You know. I was just GONNA say. It what's the normal attendance? If this were to be an in person program? Is it usually around that? Same One? Hundred Twenty one, hundred, fifty mark yes. It would have been nearly the same and that's a great question Lisa because I have been told Let's see the. One of the ophthalmology meetings wasn't might have been the AFC are s they actually had greater attendance virtually than they would have had in person share. I I don't I. Don't doubt that because people have had a chance to stay wherever they are in fitted in even if it's just for thirty minutes, right where you went nip traveled if you only had a half a day and it was a long travel distance for it. The other thing I love about your example here, and I think it's going to be unique to this kind of volume of attendance is that be the ability to really integrate industry with the clinicians is really heightened your we don't see that. When we go to some of the mega conferences, you know there's exhibitors your. Contained over here right, and then the rest of the conference is going on around you. But you're over here whereas you guys work real hard to be blended. With this particular course I think that is one of the advantages of these smaller attended conferences where people are more integrated and at that's a definite plus you as a small company and Metrovision as a small company. The last in-person trade show we attended but even though it was the last in person show. coverted was looming over a so socially distance I should say wasn't even socially distances hand sanitizer everywhere. Hugs hugs were not permitted because all these people knew each other really well, and you're shaking hands by touching elbows. That's the stage where we add in early March with in the United States, right? But again, a small meeting for a small company gave us an outsized presence. We got some really good interaction. They are some good leads. So small medium size companies, and we'll get to the exhibit or not question. Yeah. I WanNa, be thinking about where they go in this era Let's move into large conferences as example and and You had this great. From. Our. So I'M GONNA move into the next slide I'll let you. Talk US through this. I. Can I can use the cursor. IFFY. Just tell me where to be. Yeah. Absolutely. So what we're looking at when pivoting to virtual events is that you know there've been so many different trade shows throughout the industry none of them have quite looked the same obviously the one hundred and twenty person trade show is going to look very different from the fifteen thousand person trade show that we see here with e CR twenty. Twenty. Wise from, we could see from the outside and also some feedback from some exhibitors as well. This was a well put together show. The site was very user friendly, and there are also a lot of educational in exhibiting opportunities. Not only. Do. We see name splashed up on the main page. We also have virtual cleanings and we have a very easily. Navigate. -Able Exhibit. Hall. The only downside is for those small to mid sized companies because there are so many extra halls centers in event. This big that could very easily get lost in the layers of different floors. Yeah. This one really we thought we impressed by because you do have the association working really hard to emulate what would have been the in person by if he walked into the conference center in Vienna, to attend this program you know. So you walk in, it's this general area where you See The different options available to you just as if you would walk into McCormick place in Chicago and you know you've got the Co. check in you got the information counter up this way to the exhibit hall and over to the elevators. So it had you sort of Orient Yourself and again two points second ago it's such a massive trade show opportunity though that exhibit hall was definitely Kinda contained in its own little realm, and so you had to want to go to the trade. Show, again, if he wanted any big huge conferences, usually a exhibit hall dominates and they're so much I mean it's it's almost like it's up front and center in in your face, and so you can't get be beyond it. I'm what to your mood meeting room unless you go through the exhibits and in this case, it's definitely the exhibit halls contained. So you have to want to exhibit hall and you have nowhere to go within it because like Lauren saying some of the small exhibitors You know there's almost you have to take it virtual escalator down seven layers to get to the cheap booths that are ten by ten for the newcomers. That's level seven. So you gotTa WanNa go there because you got to go through all these different layers to get there. So there's a lot of clicks involved if you wouldn't mind going to the next slide I think this is one where it kinda up the emphasis on the trade show main page I think that's the next. One thing I'm GONNA say as. International listeners or any all listeners I've been to the Vienna Congress. Center and so I can see this one thing I like about this is that the way they laid out in a in an image is that actually makes me feel comfortable. So as potential exhibitor, my first reaction is sort of friendly because it's a nice exhibit area it's a nice exhibit off. and. So my initial reaction is actually somewhat positive. As opposed to looking at a cold website or something. So, that that's interesting. Okay. But you're right, that is a good point. You know contrast that to the when you're showing us where you didn't really feel as if you were physically walking into this environment you know they did a good job on a reasonable budget and for small attendance obviously you said it's normally July made a virtual in August. So a quick turn and that was impressive to for that smaller meeting. The but this one I think it's normally in April or May, and they postponed it and then pushed it off a little bit again and finally happened in mid-july. And so we were just commenting about how you know isn't it interesting that you know like you might see physically a big banner draped as you walk up into the hall. Again the column wraps the later clings those sorts of things are being accomplished in a virtual setting. So you do those advertising opportunities. If you're a huge sponsor an also as a huge sponsor, you've got this kind of pick of the litter up the top where you know. You want to go to the exhibit hall fine. Well, if you're not one of these, whatever twenty. Key accounts are a key sponsors that you want to visit. You have to really know where your company is. You'RE GONNA, go looking for an how to get to them and how many clicks you know. Yes, there's search features. So that's nice. It can take you more quickly there but obviously the more money you put into it as a sponsor, the better visibility in the better traffic you're GONNA get the hot spots all over this little rendering down at the bottom. There's Places where you click on a minute, you just jump right to the to the sponsor right and it's like what we were saying it's not like a live show where you grab your glass of white wine in your canape and you're just kind of Walking around the Exhibit Hall in Walking Up to boost who you might have never heard that company name before. But here you are you have the opportunity to just happen upon them. That's nobody's going to happen upon your booth. Maybe they'll have a glass of wine who knows. Not, going GonNa Happen upon your booth in a virtual setting this. Yeah. That's a good point. That's a really good point because I wonder how much traffic is just generated I mean as marketers we strive for that right we we figure you got three to five seconds to capture someone's attention as they're walking by you WANNA be co located by the near the big huge sponsors so that you get that overflow traffic mean all those kinds of elements in your planning and your strategy they go away. Right, but that's Really frustrating thing is that. I, remember reading a study on a couple of the large medical exhibits or congresses, and they said that the doctors indicated they only spent like an average of one and a half to two hours on the exhibit floor over three or four day congress. AB- so I, think the walk by. The potential of walk by leads and and? A say lead capture is. Fairly poor unless you have really good location which small companies don't get small. So you have to have other ways to do it which which. But for listeners, this image that I'm looking at has all the big sponsors, their buttons, and it's real easy for somebody to click on one of those buttons and go go right into an exhibit. So should I click on the next slide? Yes, please. Okay. So what you see here in a question that we had, we discussed earlier west. Are there companies that work with these medical societies to deduct to excuse me conduct virtual events that are better than others? So in other words. When you know a virtual meeting is going to be hosted by. XYZ Company. Would you say oh, that's going to be great job. Yeah and our my answer to this after doing some research is that I. Have Not Seen One company be used. You know across the board for these events it is very much in our RSVP in case by case basis I know for example, arseny has been in planning for months just trying to pick a vendor Obviously, they'll take their past experience in past society shows into consideration, but it really is just based on a very individual basis. So what I've done is I've looked at the event manager blog in I looked at the top ten virtual event companies of twenty twenty. Expose rated number one, and you just said these ones have all been rated based on their features, their pricing in their support. So maybe if you see that one of your shows going to power by one of these companies, you can rest easy knowing that they've made it the top ten. But also what we found is that some industry or not industry excuse me some associations such as E. CR. They use their own virtual platform in house. They did not go to a third party like expo or GT are. And so yeah, I think the answer to that question again, which we were trying to think through what might questions be that we would get asked in that was one of them you know. So I think this is such a hot space right now where everybody knows that virtual events is an area of growth significant growth crazy growth that. We're GONNA see a lot of other diversity among the groups of companies that do offer those services like your hop in isn't even listed here but obviously, they do a good job and that's what they do as well. So I imagine as we see with most industry areas that they'll probably be a flurry of obvious little dispirit companies in there'll be some consolidation but right now again, based on industry rankings. This is a resource to go to and I think in the resource section of this particular program will put a link to that as well as on site here. Right? Right. Right. So is Lauren, was this the ranking that they came up with? The farming it's really early in this world of virtual platforms, virtual shows but in terms of the platforms, this came up with at the moment. That's that's correct. This is where we're at so far I mean there's a of less than a lot of these names they appear on those Pulis some lists, heaven alphabetical order. But for example, I've seen INC spell six connect heck's affair on a number of top ten top fourteen virtual event platforms they're not they're not caved spot. So it's is based on societies experience working with these platforms. We so was saying also earlier that a lot of it when you look at the quality of the virtual event in the platform that the US is dependent on the turnaround time, they give the virtual event bender. So as they only postpone virtual event for a month and they don't have the budget, they don't have the bandwidth to really pull together and create a seamless virtual platform that's going to reflect poorly on the virtual bender end. The virtual industry partners, they're not going to have a great experience. Yeah Yeah. Yeah so if if if the Association Is is not spending the money and or doesn't give the time really good platform might look horned right so it sort of had. Go. Cautiously into it because you might think that it was the platform you know, but it might have been society is doing or a combination of it just not working out effectively. But that same platform company like these listed here could be excellent in another society relationship okay okay. All? Right. So move on So here we have the next slide is optimizing your virtual trade show. Yes. So actually if you want to go in advance to the following side. Talk About Best Practices for Virtual Exhibitors Aereo. Great. So we have a variety here I'll just touch briefly on me. So the first one which I think is obvious whether you're doing a live event where virtual event thus to develop your show strategy in define success before you begin anything, don't purchase any exhibiting in don't look at your sponsorship opportunities until you understand what exactly you're looking for and what a what successful being, what are, why is going to be for this event? But. So important. So many people in the past just been used to going to showing up. Among, young, that's great. I net should be pervasive. No matter what your circumstance in person or virtual, but you know hit merits mentioning again virtual. Exactly. So something that we were talking about earlier as well as the even though this event isn't life, you still the event manager, the marketing manager in a sales manager should create a schedule so that we have our a team assembled, and if somebody walks up to the booth from whatever country they're from and then click the chat button they're not just sitting there waiting and waiting and waiting for a response because they will leave your both and then you could lose a potential lead. Yeah. That's that's something I think we're having to really come to terms with at UCR when we were doing some of our just sort of idol sleuthing. Company. Some of the big ones that had they promoted something to the effect of. One hundred twenty of our top staff ready to your question, you know pick your category of question, Pick Your region, etc. At one, hundred, twenty people I was envisioning are all at their computer around the world ready to respond if that pops into them right away, which again is a a heavy drain on your resource in your staffing but again, in the virtual environment, hopefully, it's manageable from cost perspective, but you just got to be ready and planned for that Donna. Okay. Next is to be sure to test your technology ahead of time and under different circumstances, you know the last thing that you want right before your booth goes lied is a technology malfunction that you're not prepared for that could overshadow your entire message for your booth, your virtual exhibit when you have people who are logging in from all over the world on different kinds of browsers on different kinds of devices, you need to make sure that I had a time you prepared for all of these different pathways in what could possibly go wrong with your technology. Anti think you need to have the people that are meaning the booth? So to speak virtually They need to understand how to work virtually. Right. Right. Well, you know it's funny in doing the physical trade shows I mean for decades I went to originally and then started to teach how to work a trade show because you know it's not the same as me being rep in the field going in calling on my accounts. You know I don't know who they are going GonNa, be walking up to me I don't know. Their status, their decision authority, their interest I don't know if they're competitor loyal account or whatever. So there's so much. You don't know it translates here too. I mean, maybe you get a little bit more insight because you know the application itself makes known to you who these people are identified more readily. Then them hiding their badger badge turned backwards or whatever on the show floor right I mean. We know all the tricks So sometimes, it's really hard in. This is a little improved for that, but it's still something you have to be mindful of got had a work virtual trade show as a staffer. Okay. Sorry go ahead on demand interrupt. No. No, I love the back and forth conversation. So the next one is again kind of a no brainer whether it's virtual or to live event. But rather than counting on the association to promote your virtual booth in your presence, make sure that you're using a multi channel marketing strategy, various styles of respondents in consistency across all activities. You know people now can't physically walk up to your booth they need to make sure that you give them the directions to get their over multiple platforms other be social media in the last you know. Column wraps. Virtually. Light of different things that you get. A chance to do should be considered for making sure that again, especially, if you're one of the smaller industries, sponsors and end or exhibitors that you are leveraging those to make yourself be heard through the noise of everybody else. Those lots of noise lots of Nice. Next Nexus to make sure that your booth has compelling interactive. So give serious consideration to replicating hands on with your technology in offering some sort of gamification application website, a missile support, your physical booth as a kiosk down the road. It will also support your situation today with the sales rep and a one on one demo virtually as well and make sure that the story of your booth and activities and they are compelling for people to lock up in wants to visit. On this point. The question that it'd be curious pitcher responses. In a couple of the industries that I'm familiar with you have a lot of small and medium sized companies that are. marketing anywhere from in a tend to. One hundred products s us. Sometimes a good trade show and they might have, let's say. Ten instruments out in their display even a small twenty foot in line display little cramped took ten instruments, ten diagnostic instruments or a bunch of surgical instruments in a situation like this, where you're trying to make a compelling and interactive and you're somewhat consign by or restrained by. virtuality in other words, somebody can't walk up to your booth and see everything they're gonNA, walk up to your booth and maybe have some buttons to push. Should accompany in that situation, roll the dice and decide what are the priority products that they really want to focus on or you know maybe they already know because it's eighty percent of their sales. Are you know twenty percent of the products? Should they just do that and really go after those on? Those particular products since they can't necessarily throw everything on a couple tables. I you know I think it's tough when you have a full portfolio of offerings in especially if you're solutions based company in your wanting to bring the full bag to the table. So maybe it's something where you know you will highlight a very sought after imaging system and then the accessories with that. You have different pathways virtually to get to those into dig into those separately on a micro site and find different ways to get there may be not as direct. But I do think that you obviously need to think about still continuing to sell that full bag full solution even if you're spaces minimized virtually. I was GONNA say. oftentimes, a lot of our clients to your point I mean, if you're a small startup, you might have really one system and it might apply to them but as they grow as they become a larger. The mid size company is certainly the largest companies you know you do have hundreds, maybe thousands of skews, and so we always try to say even though the product managers wouldn't like this because they're vying for their own spot. In the sun or own place in the spotlight whatever anyway. The challenges that you can't do all things well on that front. So the best thing you can do is to figure out what's hot and realized that's GonNa pull through in. And leverage that hot product for the discussion to be started, and then you know work that particular discussion further. But you don't have to show all your hundred or thousand skews as long as you're effective at to. Feature One and use that to leverage of pulled through to others. The other thing I was going to say is that you know your example of the kind of jewel case that we talk about you know. I would I would argue that if you can just see past the here in the now that there's a longevity for the investment in a real good application that you develop. So it could be that in my booth, there is a station and the station when I walk up to it virtually you know I move forward. You know. So it gets closer almost like virtual reality I walk up to a counter I get to click on the counter I get to have a hand looks like it's grabbing product and while I can't physically have that tactile experience I get that. But I at least can invest in the Pan Zoom rotate and kind of thing that I might do in person you know absent the feel at least can look at a close up of a feature and a function and then Put it down to look at the next one and the jewel case. So again, an investment, there has far reaching implications beyond just the here. Now, if you don't believe that the virtual trade shows is going to be here to stay, which again arguably may not necessarily be accurate That's a good point because then you can link that to your website. Now you've got a morning, its website sales reps can have it. You know in their laptops when during the field whatever yeah. Okay. So the next best practices to host a live Webinar to engage visitors. This is very similar to the in booth theater presentations in this cystic compliment or in this case, replace certain posters in podium talks. This'll just drive people to your out of specific time during the day in and make sure that they have something to show up for. Next is a no-brainer again, live Warburg. It I think is a little bit easier on a virtual scale, but to qualify in identify leads and follow up on them swiftly associations are giving leads live as people walk up to your booth you get all their information or get a report at the end of the day. So you're able to very quickly in very easily follow up with those leads and make sure that they're not lost. I think one of the things that so unique about this environment is that unlike at a physical trade show where I take the lead on Monday afternoon and we're all still there till Wednesday morning you know I might have that same physician that I'm speaking with You know he's at his desk right now he's watching this and were all in our in our normal lives and so what I might want to. Do is actually capitalize on the fact that he doesn't have to travel home. I don't have to travel home unpack and do all that I can immediately engage him. I can all right back up on that because he might be sitting there more receptive to it if I can act quickly within the next twelve, twenty, four hours on that opportunity. So swiftly has a whole new meaning in the virtual in terms of lead follow timeframe. Okay. And then the last tip that we also got front from genie were at, Siemens, was to be sure to schedule one on one meetings instead of relying on live chat interactions with your customers. I think that she found that those pre scheduled meetings yielded a much higher response rate than the live. Button. That folks could push when they came to the virtual booth. Yay and so that's a perfect lead in because I just wanted to do a shameless plug for part two of the series that we've been talking about for next week when we will have the president of the. Healthcare, Convention and Exhibitors Association Genie were who also leads up global events at Siemens I'm she'll be around to talk about her own personal experiences but also from the association side, not just industry but association, and then this whole page two, we think we'll have a different perspective. If we talk are asked the question next week about best practices from a company that does create virtual exhibit. So we're having Mike Ellery, who's the chief creative officer. It's ARC's join us as well to talk about his take on what are best practices and thinks he's seeing in the healthcare industry but the beauty of inviting Mike in particular is that he also sits across all kinds of different industries in high tech and. There's best practices they're outside at Healthcare Navy model after so that should be interesting to catch. Absolutely not which other said that at the outset, but because this is going to be a probably a three. Via Cast podcast series and this is just the first one. So there's lots to do here, but this is a great start. Right one other thing I'm going to do more shameless plug. If you look all of us, I actually Leeson I recorded a Webinar earlier. This year called the art of the art of hosting virtual meetings. I can't even do my unplug right and really it kind of delves into these best practices and has a more granular look at creating pre show checklists what you need to keep in mind during the show and then polls show follow up. So it kind of just is a little. It's a whole webinar dedicated to these best practices. Okay. Excellent. Excellent. Very good. So type in the next side. Loops. Isn't it coming? That's why. Falls or go to firm yes. Now that was. Agreed. So now we're on a slide that's called pitfalls to avoid. Yes. So we have three here. That are kind of the big baddies. The needs out for the first one is to avoid complex platforms. US can bog down your customers browser and make for sub optimal virtual booth experience. Again, if somebody is surfing the web, they're looking at your booth in they can't do anything. You know that things are watching. They're not going to want to waste their time to figure out how your booth works. They're just going to go away. We don't know come back. And, that then kind of the Nice Swan dive into our next point which has refrained from including long videos or high-rise pediatric take a long time to load in a virtual exhibit. Hall. I think that's just a real quick experience. There is during ECR's we were thumbing through different exhibitors and trying to see how they varied in their approach from the big ones too. The small ones You know we could tell when someone wasn't mindful of the environment so well, and they did put really long videos. Hi, Rez videos that were unecessarily needed for the streaming approach right for its. Of being available the Web I'm it's fine if you're going to watch it on the big screen in person, but not necessarily necessary to have that big of a file size, and so it would just show you know spin and spin spin, and so the information you wanted to get, you couldn't get because you didn't have time, and of course, in the virtual world, we are subject to everybody's variability own. Their own Internet service provider, just all kinds of things that play into it being questionable as to whether or not it'll play as intended. Brigade point get something to them that gives them enough information to capture their interest and be able to capture their information so that you can get back to them for a one on one later. Absolutely. Okay. And lastly, just because you can does not mean you should so. When you're looking at different virtual concepts, think about the complexity, the man hours and the cost to do something in you really need to measure these factors against projected outcome to understand your our ally in determine if it's even worth it I think a lot of people really want to make a huge splash virtually because they feel like they're missing that live component and I feel like it could be somebody's enemy because they're trying to pull too many things into play or they're trying to go to big when they don't otherwise have those resources. Yeah it's interesting. You know in this new realm. person who might have been ten by ten booth could literally become a thirty by forty booth in terms of its scope and size in a virtual realm. You're not charged extra to make your ten by ten, become a twenty by thirty or so except for the fact that you're limited to your engagement sections, right you're hot spots videos like you saw with that hop in that number of downloads that you can have your measured by the bandwidth you use. So you have to be mindful of that. So just because you could perhaps make the stride Norma Miss Booth in think about expensive that, and then how it's going to cost you more in an implementation. Regret right right while like that just because you can doesn't mean you. Can apply that to lots of things words by absolutely. Okay. So next. Yes. Typical costs and. So what you have one third of your original live trade show budget or What that means? So really every single event they set their own pricing, which makes it hard to pinpoint a specific number for typical costs patterns that we are seeing though are these larger shows will have tiered sponsorship pricing in the sickly start from about three to five thousand dollars in can Max out anywhere from seventy five to roughly a hundred thousand or as you see here, almost two hundred, thousand dollars yeah. US would be even more. So. So the rule of thumb that we've used so far for our clients and if we WANNA, keep roughly the same footprint or size in the virtual program and it seems to work as take one third of your original budget that you had for a live program that includes. honorarium travel a Labor setup and tear down drainage, and that will cover one third of that will cover the cost of virtual trade show. In this rule of thumb typically works we have seen some virtual conferences like you see here with Ese are s and Lasko as well that have a significant price jump. If. You WanNa have any kind of virtual presence Substantial. At their program. So price jumps like this where we're looking at four, thousand up to thirty five thousand or I saw another one that was five thousand to like seventy, five, thousand dollars. These have the potential to really take out any small companies from the running to have many visibility at these programs. And something I would like the to say in terms of budgeting is. Frequently, in small to medium sized companies, the actual total cost of attending an exhibit is not really clear to upper management or the executives. Because when they look at a spreadsheet that's presented to them on the trade show budget, all they see is the booth space and possibly the shipping and so on. They don't account for because they're because they're putting the travel, the per diem hotel, and all that they're putting that into a different budget category frequently right? Exactly though I think they really need to consider that consider the entire budget. instead of being shocked by some of the Virtual trade show prices that they might see they really need to consider the entire budget as one thing When they're making apple so it's apples to apples comparison. Then secondarily if they're a small to medium size company. They have to decide are we gonNA get buried in this virtual world which is we? Pointed out early on over station because a few disconnect get buried and people can't even find your see you than than. That's difficult. So Now and the example that we have up here on the screen for people are listening is the Is a trade show that I've that. I. Love to go to. It's one of the best of shows in the world it's called the Ese are s and they had to go. And it's typically got lots of small and medium sized companies exhibiting. And a what Lauren was just alluding to is the first level of exhibiting is called the bronze for four thousand, four, hundred euro, which is about these days of the dollar weakening I don't know might be five, thousand, two, hundred dollars or something. But. All you get is. You have to choose from a to booth templates and essentially it looks like a small picture of a booth. you get to in that booth you could have to PDF's that's to PDF's that somebody can download if they come into that little. Bronze Small booth you can have One Chat is available via cards, and then of course, you have your profile on the platform on the website but dance for you know over five thousand dollars, the next level is silver for thirty four, thousand, six, hundred, fifty euros. That's almost forty thirty eight, thousand dollars. So there's this huge gap in between and already know that my colleague in France we're not going. We're not going to attend this meeting virtually. Because, this huge gap and this crazy cost, and even at that Silver Level You get five upload ables pediatrics in you get three upload -able V had videos. So put that in perspective if you had an in face meeting and you had a twenty foot in line booth, you could have all the literature you wanted to hand out. You can have a video in the background he could have all these things that you cannot have. So in you know, we already made this decision that this is a bad deal. And I I think I think this organization. They are using by the way. I think the third or fourth rank platform that you had listed on. Six connects, but it's not really six can XS decision as to how price sex. That? I. Don't know who It. Isn't it isn't though Ted because their costs passed on in society I have to be recovered by our registrations in our sponsorship dollar. So the more expensive platform does drive that to some degree. Oh, it could be a tell you. You know I I really predict that they'll They'll regret this program. Yeah. So especially. What's the? What's the typical attendance in person on this one? This was a meeting where you have ten thousand or maybe up to fifteen thousand between industry and between. Delegates. The probably ten to twelve thousand. Medical. Delegates and then the rest is industry. Yeah so you know. With a pretty exhibit hall typically no doubt for that level of attendance. So I imagine that yeah, these smaller companies they're going to be pushed out. I mean you'll. You'll be buried. It among the other big sponsors who are ponying up these dollars and that's that's unfortunate when it's it's only the big companies can present. Right? It is something else I'm noticing looking at this is that you have to pay at least two hundred. Two hundred and thirty thousand, I can't even over two hundred thousand dollars to embed a link to use your own three D. booth so that two hundred thousand dollars doesn't even cover the cost of what it would cost you to have your own separate right build out. Yeah. So that makes it I mean I can't even think really of a large company that I think that would look at this and think this is a great use. Of Our funds 'cause I, you know coming from large medical device company if I if I would have seen these in my old position would gawked at these numbers. Yeah. That's a good point. Right to to feel like you're going to be gouged for two hundred thousand just to play and then your own you know twenty thirty, Forty Thousand Dollar Exhibit House Building Your Three d rendering with all the hot spots and everything. Yeah that's crazy. It'll be interesting on a curious to see how this works out. Okay. So should we move on Yeah The end here I know I know we are taking a lot of time, but I think it's going. This is good. What the I'm going the wrong way. A. Couple more back on track. I know it's hard way isn't worth it. So now we're talking about and we've sort of we're segue into this you how It worth it when we're talking about the pros and cons. So on the pro side, we have four categories, cost savings, possible a lead generation time savings and broader audience. So let's let's walk through those. Right. So when we look at our cost savings based off of our initial rule of thumb, you know we'll be saving if you WANNA keep the same footprint that you would at be life program. For most cases, roughly two-thirds of your original budget that will be spent on lodging airfare meals, print production shipping in other things that come into play with those live programs. Right. On. Lead generation as we were saying earlier, you know I feel like it is easier to follow up with online. Leads because the online registration forces people to add all of their information in all of the leaves are automated, you don't have to wrangle folks in the booth and make sure that they're following up scanning badges appropriately that's a good point, your challenge Time savings. This is This can be taken both ways actually, but we put it in the pros call him because virtual attendance can be completed from home. So you're not having to take that time to travel to a to a conference check into your hotel that takes a whole day out of your schedule, and you can set your schedule with your colleagues at home. So determined booth coverage. While might be time consuming. When we look at booth coverage on the front, end it on the back end, it's it's far less time consuming than life program, right? And then finally, if that broader audience is that virtual shows attract international ten BS, there were previously beyond some companies reach. Now agree with that and even some national attendees where. Let's say in a group practice, they may have in the past and face to face meetings agreed that you know only one or two of the group get to go to the meeting and achieved the whole groups of. Objectives you in terms of education and looking for maybe products investments they need to make. More people now could attend from that group. I exactly. I know this is hard because we're having to read the slides for you carving out just the audio portion of this. Our tendency is to just loss over and talk about it but we're wanting to be methodical about covering the content you can see essentially. What's okay if I mean, there's another podcast was There's this one guy. Every one of his podcasts is three hours long now don't get scared listeners not going through. Promise done but. It's the most popular podcasts in the world. So so those are the pros. And then we get to the cons and if we look at those, I'll just list them real quickly eight networking action. Engagement. Technology dependent an last minute of yeah. That's a big one. So let's just walk through those. Let's walk through the cons of of a virtual exhibit. K.. So, again, working interaction, you lack the opportunities to engage with attendees. Organically, I know a huge at component of going to these live shows is to. Continue to build those relationships with our existing customers in cultivate relationships with new customers, and it's hard to do that when you can't take him out to dinner or go to the bar and have a conversation. So that's lost. You know even even just meeting them for a cup of coffee that. You're right that that is lost in the when you run into people in the in the hallway or in the aisle in you have that chat those things really add up and they have a lot of value actually. So next is engagement. Online attendees more easily distracted with multitasking pressing work needs emails in other interruptions just from everyday life because we're we're at our homes and you know we do have distractions at home. And that's a great point because at this meeting that I just attended a yesterday and today. During the networking today I, I was matched up with the some. Lady this executive of Biotech Company in our chatting and I I was asking her what she thought I asked a lot of the people what they thought of this virtual trade show experience has ball I shouldn't say trade shows small symposium experience and everybody's impressed. But she did say that while you know, I, really didn't attend my yesterday because I was on the phone with other meetings I was doing this doing that. If, she'd had to go to in-person meeting. She might have spent more time actually in the meeting. So here she had the ability to be distracted. So okay. On gauge -ment. So now we're onto the next one. Yes Oh online trade shows or one hundred percent dependent on technology, and they're vulnerable to connective tissues or software complications. You know the technology gods are not always in our favor and I know I have experienced that more than once. So it kind of adds a whole nother level of complication. Honestly. Things to to worry about as an event manager or marketing or sales manager, it would be A. Shame to invested. Eight to ten thousand dollars in something and then have your technology not working. that. would be terrible. You're right. Okay. Excellent point. Are In something that least actually pointed out to me this morning that last minute pivot is that depending on how together the association is you might not have a lot of time to promote virtual attendance. You know if they're switching from live to virtual in three weeks, they're not going to have those long email blasts campaigns or or other options where you can really tell your audience in attendance where you're going to be in, you get swallowed up in the virtual. Event World. I think a lot of people. A lot of the societies are still holding on as long as they can before they make a decision and so try as they. My I mean it's not necessarily their fault but just that they're in their got aboard than they might have diverse opinions about this and where things are heading and we're on medical. So. Maybe they're like takers and thinking, oh no, it's going to be better by November but so then they push it another month, and then before you know it when they make that decision to go virtual we're out of time we're at a time to really do it justice and so You know it's just the nature of what the environment is right now. With the on the the example we use of the Ese are S, which is the meeting where we were talking about the crazy costs. Here it is. The beginning of August, actually where well, six days in August, they just got this information out about August first and they were asking for commitments by August the third to get some special points and stuff that he is in midst of the early to mid. September. So. Not, really tight. Yeah. Not only pivot from the standpoint of being able to. Create. Pre show engagement that might help drive people to your virtual your virtual booth, but also the ability to put together your own plan to get a if you need to have a defender. Contract to create your in your own virtual booth, let's say it's a meeting where you're allowed to bring your own virtual booth or a connection to it. You know that all that stuff takes time to work up open. You don't see last pivot could be tough. Yeah, right. So so really where we land with this as it goes back to our best practices in that before you move forward with a event, determine your objectives. If your objectives are to network antics, relationships with your customers. A virtual platform is not the right thing in the right place to do that if your objective is to get measurable leads that you can follow up on then perhaps a virtual event is the right platform for that. or You could even think about well, if if will you need our actual leads, what other ways are there to do? It is side virtual event because four. If. Let's say that go back to ESPN s example where that silver the next level up which still gave gave me very little in the way of privileges was around. Thirty Almost forty, thousand dollars forty, thousand dollars would you could do easily ten or twelve. especially if you bought in bulk, you could do a whole bunch of E. blasts. Eve, blasts webinars application development. There's a lot you could do with those dollars absolutely, and and for that single event that might or might not be well attended and and people engaged in people find you all that. For example, for example. If your reps if you if you're reps are good. If you have salesforce or distributed for us, and they really know their doctors and and or their healthcare professional. Customers could be nurses whatever it might be. If they really know these people. You could put together a really nice invitation only type of Webinar. And the reps could be out there pushing the attendance you might even be able to work with CME company. Be Arms length but there's a way to do it where you could give people some type of continuing medical education in an arm's length way. But that would still give your company some kind of credit and create a lot of value that would attract people. So I do think it requires really careful consideration. Yea and it details into what I will cover just here and I'm GonNa look at my notes because we we've thought about in have experienced a number of different. Types of the program. So I WANNA make sure I don't miss one of these ideas as I share it but to your Move ahead done I'm yeah. I think that I'm not sure if we have a slide necessarily on. That we'll be doing I'm sorry we do. So, you know the thing that I think is a key. Just let me interrupt your briefly. What we're talking about now is who we have been said into it in the last conversation on the last slide this slide for listeners alternatives to virtual events. So let's keep going. Right so this presumes you have said I'm not going to pay that exorbitant fee or my my Mike. Medical Conference isn't even offering virtual attendance. It's it's either not happening at all. It's just completely can't a lot of neuromancer that way for example, this fall I'm no alternatives at all so Now it's on you as the company what am I going to do to replicate that kind of those objectives that I had heading into the fall and turn the corner next your with leads, and also you know one of the things you just mentioned is You know you can do your own webinars, own programs So maybe you don't have a place for your virtual youth within a medical society virtual conference that doesn't mean you. Can't create your own virtual booth. Anyway I'm that is something you promote on social media in email through your raps whatever nurture campaigns got whatever vehicles you've got to communicate it bill the thing that would have been your live booth and invite people to it outside of any other conference and in let them engage with your product. Immunity becomes kind of a cool web application in segment of your website that you could drive people do. So there's that the other thing is. To think about your own virtual meetings with specific groups that you want to target, think about that being more conference or symposium where you invite specific people and they attend there's even a cool feature where you can it's called eaten engage. So eat engage I. think that's right where you can get a group of people together a business meeting for dinner and you arrange for this eaten gauge service to deliver a nice steak dinner to everyone of your attendees. So they're eating a wonderful meal while you're holding a zoom or gotomeeting or whatever. The platform is kind of session. So you're replicating that vibe of being together and again over the dinner hour. So that's kind of NEAT. It really is obvious. People are coming out of the woodworks thinking of these very clever things to make it seem as real as it was when we meet face to face in person. I'm a big Fan of Webinars, we've seen webinars just go through the roof but the thing is is that You're competing you're competing with a Lotta people who are doing the same darn thing. There's a lot of Webinar content out there. So how do you stand apart from that to your point cme might be one draw that's pretty expensive. Usually, it does take some time and there's a lot of a lot of restrictions on you. So you know maybe seeing me as possible for you down the road with a partner may be as big organization. You can have this own HCP credited division as long as it's you know doing all the right things. But presuming you can't. What else might you do? That makes it unique to make sure that it's a hot topic. One of the things we'd like to suggest is that you may be thinking about partnering with one or two other. Let's just call them strategic that they're synergistic content there synergistic products. They are not competitive be used by the same type of physician and you all band together. So it becomes this sort. Of Community events that has a much better chance of a big draw on. So that could be good especially, if you can identify perhaps even industry influence or a thought leader Caylao who could help to be like the program director that could be really solid in virtual setting you know, yes, you're now one third of the program but chances are you're going to get a much greater attendance in that has a lot of appeal. and. Then the other that we do talk about like in our white paper, which is this little thumbnail you're seeing on this screen, this reinventing medical marketing other ways that you engage people. You think about, why did I go to a trade show? In the first place I wanted to introduce a new product I wanted to get some hands on with my product I wanted to show expanded indications minute clinical data I wanted to take leads of and further the you know the sales process long so. One of the tools that we've been hearing about being really prominent prominent now as proximity and proximity is away for very little investment on your part it's just really an application and it just relies on having certain sort of technology on your side, as well as the physician side in his office or her practice or whatever, and you can do as sort of a physical virtual hands on with your product in their action. So so those are some really good ideas on ways that if you've chosen not to do the trade show routes, you could achieve some of those. Objectives that you had for what would have been at the show floor. Absolutely. Those are those are great ideas and. I'm sure that it's just going to. Even more ideas are gonNA come up. so that's terrific. And where do we go from here? Are We? Budgets. You know if if I might suggest a maybe this just becomes a resource that we put at the bottom of the podcast i. have a long narrative you know as a as a marketing leader for not only our business but events other plant businesses. We have a real strong opinion about how should you heading into the season for most of us? Many of us you know we're planning already in September Budgets for twenty twenty one and we're starting that process for finance teams and putting it on paper. Then you go through the reviews cuts in the whatever's in the board has to prove it all that fun stuff that we look forward to in the third and fourth quarter. But. There's a lot of things a lot of nuances to what you need to think about for twenty twenty one. So if you don't mind I'll just put that on a document and we can post that in the resource center. That'd be fun. Yeah. Stay with oats and a resource center and that'd be terrific and it could be even the subject of totally different. Nygren as many were. As we are thinking about that question in documenting what would be the points we went to make I was thinking man that could be its own at least fifteen minute podcast in of itself. That's a good point. Sure. Sure. Sure. And then Oh yeah medical conferences the future model let's. Let's go over that for. At least some people need to be thinking about. Right. So as we look ahead into twenty twenty one, we need to have an understanding that a reversion to the norms of two thousand nineteen before might not exist in. So the new or the next normal we're looking at potentially hybrid meetings. So some people attend in person in some attend remotely. And then the other one is which we actually heard from a Webinar earlier. This year is a hub and spoke meeting, and so really what that looks like is that people attend their local drivable metro area in socially distance in a hotel still together. They teleconference with other cities throughout the world. So each it'd be kind of like a bunch of small regional trade shows all together you know from there different locations to create. A mega or a national or international show. We. Attended a Webinar actually that plus a few conversations with some thought leaders physicians that we know in different specialties. So this doesn't seem to be pigeonholed into just one anecdotal piece of information, but we're hearing it widespread in in talking with some of our exhibit partners that we've worked with two. They're saying we're hearing Matt as well. So it's echoed across. So especially with the physician audience well, let's just say clinician audience. So it's you know it's nurses as well they actually have said. In our saying it's irresponsible of to think about getting on a plane in traveling to a conference I owe it to my local hospital practice health system to be healthy remained local and not have to when. I go away risk being exposed to something bring it back be quarantined, be sick and infect others just saying it's irresponsible. So instead, they're all about though driving one hundred miles maybe one hundred fifty to attend a program in a metro area within their state or within their region that allows them to. Be isolated in their car, wear a mask when they get to the hotel how check into the hotel keep a safe distance controlled environment more than physically getting on a plane in traveling a distance, and then just daisy chain connecting these different a hotel conference rooms together for one big United Conference and so I think that this is really going to be one of the prominent ways that we see things these things working in the future. Yeah it's that's interesting I agree with you and at the same time, it's concerning especially for smaller and medium sized companies don't have the resources or the people in place to be a number of different locations. It's true. It's true. That's one of the things that again I on my budget side, I was GonNa talk about you know making sure that you put more instead of one big event you might attend in the big trade show that you WANNA to update every year think about. Really decentralizing that and making more ten by ten types of boosts that could be regionally deployed. Now, that means you still need to have staff. Now again, if I'm the single marketing or sales person may be I, don't mind myself going to those different locations, setting up my booth and being present there So it's not like I have to have staff in all these metro areas where we're having a meeting but you know there's there's that consideration that you're going to have to have some sort of presence there locally in order to be represented. Yeah. Good Bergische point. I guess a lot of rule of famers will be sold. Right. Exactly. Although, there's some really great displays. The are not very expensive that look a lot better than roll up banner so. That's a joke. Okay. So do we have anything beyond this? I don't think I think that's the end of it. So, stop sharing the screen and by the way. If. The viewers, the people have seen the video cast if you like what you have seen in terms of. This. PowerPoint display the graphics and stuff. This is big Seoul Medical Marketing Group material. This is just the way they work and not to. Embarrass, lease at all but this is just professionalism if he. disgruntling through some of these slides, this is the kind of result in get when you work with Pixel medical marketing groups out just a little point there. I'll get off my soapbox. That we appreciate it. We're. Not asking him. Anyway this has been really terrific been a bit lawn. But it was jam packed with really great information and you guys put a lot of work into this and I appreciate it and. I'm really looking forward to next week when we're going to be preparing will be talking to. Jennifer that is she president of the Hogan Yeah Genie were she is the hat she's the president of H C e a which you know is an organization that I'll listeners should be aware of, and in fact, I believe strongly in this that you know your events leaders should be members of a see there's rate information from their peers best practices. There's even what I was found in twenty years or more of being a member of HDA. At an online event directory so you want to know the details about any upcoming program. You can log in and you can see what's sad event. When is it going to be held? How many people attend? What's the profile of? Then there's a lot of rich information just at this directory for as you know membership that's Free Ariza member that's free and not only is genie the president of the organization, but it seamans she heads up the part of the company that does other exhibits. She is the global events leader right. We talked about somebody that's. The charge but she's got a little on and she says she can bring all kinds of perspective but in her role as president of eight see as she also is beholden to the other side, not just the industry side but the other side, which is the association so. H., C. A. Membership includes a vast number of medical conferences. societies associations so The the gentleman will have with us next week is Mike Element ellery right and he's the chief creative officer for sparks in sparks is a hundred year old company that does events and experiential while experience Benson exhibits. So he said that you know he'd be delighted to share his he's working within healthcare for clients, but outside of healthcare as well you know they've got quite an incredible who's who among their client base. So they're always pushing the envelope a little bit in terms of how much in what they do to. Engage in the interactive and now the virtual world they're playing some of those same learning. So it'll be interesting I think for the audience to hear him say again within healthcare outside of healthcare what is he seeing as far as best practices for virtual virtual events? Excellent. Excellent. Okay. We'll wrap this up ladies I again thank you very much for the effort and I'm really looking for the next the next to down the pike because I think the third one which were trying to organize we'd like to get some doctors in ranked. The, talk about this and talk about their experiences and their advice and get their feedback on where virtual events are GonNa go trade shows the future and so on. So yeah, agree I. think that's what we planned and I do believe that I know from our perspective every time you have a forum age see put on one of these themselves for men burst. which was grabbing a group of physicians that were multispecialty and them questions industry just so we can get the latest kind of you know checkup what are they thinking? What are they doing? What are they seeing, What's your perspective So it's invaluable from as fresh as marketers nine in shaping what we're doing going forward. Absolutely. Excellent. We'll give thanks a lot and we'll be in touch will probably be meeting again tomorrow at least a couple of us so.

Exhibit Hall Lauren Desmond United States Europe Congress Siemens Lisa Medical Associations Florida Boston Pixel Mark Medical Marketing G Lisa Lauren CEO of Pixel Medical Marketing Nigeria Norma Miss Booth Lisa Vissel Pixel Medical Marketing Group New York
Fall/Winter Preview: Hustlers//The Amazing Johnathan Documentary

The Film Vault

1:40:42 hr | 1 year ago

Fall/Winter Preview: Hustlers//The Amazing Johnathan Documentary

"Yeah uh-huh yeah film by working with some balls everyone. I'm Robin Meade central loose. There's like hearing yourself for myself. You do go back and listen much episodes Joe blow welcome. Everyone today's topic top-five five all preview. We're looking at the film's. We're looking forward. Do most this fall slash winter season award season Anderson. How many films are on your top five I I was a good boy. You know here's why looked up last year's list you know just and when I saw my list I was I was I was angry with myself. I'm just the what are you doing. I mean come on what are you. What are you doing so I'm going out on a limb and a few but not that many keeping it nice manageable Brian I got six. I got tight I five and then I got a solid top four. Guess what same as me. I don't like same with you match up. I want people to look at you. Look at me and everything about about us and say one of these. Things doesn't belong in it. You know what I mean like just very little crossover with any any aspect of life that means What are you getting. I I go tanning beds in the winter just to make sure that I look Brown. So there's some kind of more different. Have you ever been. Have you really yeah back in the day when I used to have pictures taken of me for a couple of bucks yeah you heard that story story right now the do she has not done Dushi things but one of the things I ever did was I had a photo shoot the next day because I did. I dabbled in modeling a little bit during my meth days and I I went into the Tanning Salon Heroin Chic and my k. A. Got to bed. She's like no. I'm sorry we're all book because it was like it was like the nineties Jesus. The height of spectacle of watching shit can't even bed days. I looked at her and I'm like I was desperate because I needed. I felt like I needed a based in for this shooter that I was doing something. I got a big fo she tomorrow. Is there anything Christ the top of those things the things that I've ever seen before. We began the program or actually as you were waxing with the the intro talking about your own voice. I was thinking about all the people in my life the only person I could imagine doing this would be you and that's really no this this nine tanning booth thing of course not but I have no making yeah I go to sleep with white noise. It's great. I blocks out like atticus. Crying wife complained any of your family members trying to communicate with you in any way now. That's not your I have his monitor. I had my bad words very loud and I can hear that's me that's me please don't touch my levels but if anyone in my life where to do make their own little like self soothing tape like Brian to themselves it would be you. I can totally see you're doing it. It's soothing yourself talked yeah all right so let's do the sleepytime mother this the last time. I have a chance to do this guys and I have no idea where the chips may fall but it's up to you guys now. I've done as much as I as I can to get the word out as far as the the October first that will be showing that that film called Groupers O'Brien that some of the reviews are coming in and who often great the first two were fucking brutal says that they were doc rules. You said you wanted either a score a five around Manas ninety. That's what's happening. I'm getting like either one of the worst movie I hate this movie so much or or I'm getting like wow instant. Cult classic was interview published. Your view doesn't exist. I did get one middle in review which what I'm finding and I'm GonNa talk a lot more about this on. I've I've got a movie to me because it's it's really interesting is i. I've written a movie. That doesn't really it's. I'm not sure that people are getting it really yeah and they think they think that the characters they'd get introduced later in the movie or just random working for the sake of entertainment characters but there's definitely only commentary there and there's a reason for them to be there other than like the wrap up of the whole movie. I'm talking about group mentality and what happens to you. If you only surround yourself with like minded people unlike later in life you're just as horrible miscreant of fuck who who can't see beyond their own beliefs. I mean that's but a lot of the critics so far. Some of them are like yeah and then you know he he he he didn't have the wherewithal to continue with the his homosexuality. Chile sell he had to start throwing in all these crazy characters. I I have two thoughts one. One are these actual critics like for reputable outlets or they just lowered itself okay. I can tell you this the best review I've seen so far I saw just this morning popped up from any cool news. That's a good one is to be honest. I read that one very positive question that for your poster there definitely are some quotes little lakes where it got the poster as digital these days but yeah that that guy like. I got it. I got it so if I get some more people like him to get it. Get it but but my my fear is that I fear was and is seems to be coming true is that I think some people think a lot of people are going to dismiss it because your film is very juvenile on its face ace. The whole idea is just like third yeah exactly but there are some deeper thought there and I I hope people can see that and it goes beyond yourself. The homosexuality is because obviously I'm not GonNa make an entire movie and use lean on. I wasn't trying to prove or disprove or like point out. Hey homosexuality is not a choice of course even says it in the movie that it's largely rhetorical circles right. We all know that it's not a fucking choice. Unless you're vice-president economies. Your invitation extended to yeah. I asked him a couple of times to come out to the DC's. If you'd like to be alone amongst like minded people surround yourself and political elite with that Echo Chamber we are. We have a a little less as this comes out. I guess way less than a week. The twenty third I think the final day to meet the threshold in Washington. DC Right now as I speak these words looks like we need to move thirty eight more tickets. We've sold more than half of that so far but it won't happen unless we've moved thirty eight more so fifty-one tickets in Atlanta so that might be Seattle reach unless fifty one people are hearing this. They wanted to go to the October first screaming thirty holding off only twenty seven tickets left for Chicago. You guys are Great Chicago. You've been coming through through ever since the beginning and twenty seven more of you buy some tickets for the October. First Tuesday night at seven thirty will screen at a big fancy theater out. They're all the same everywhere now different. I think I think Chicago's like eleven bucks New York. It's not happening. I gotTa Move Ninety seven tickets. I know there's a ton of you guys listen in New York City because they see the numbers but I I get it. It's a pain in the ass to get around and Tuesday night I I understand and then there's fifty-six more tickets in San Francisco for it to play at the landmark and embarked darrow. That's strange at this point and it's very doable but fifty tickets by by September twenty four th that's the deadline to make good on the threshold the ticket your your credit card does not get charged until or unless it actually meets a threshold and then the screen you're sober October first so north. I've gotten so many emails from you guys that are so fucking doc in support of saying hey. I'll buy tickets to like you know which screening needs help more than the others could. I'll buy tickets even though I don't live part of the country. I just want to see it screen there. Thank you so much for for that but I don't. That's not it's not what we're looking for. It's very nice I've responded to all of you and I am touched that you would consider doing that but it was just an opportunity opportunity for to show on the big screen and a few other cities and help help is up the promotion. It's a funny business model because you'd imagine on a Tuesday night. It's not the most popular night at the movie theater and if if I don't know fifty people wanna go see groupers in Atlanta. That's probably a lot more tickets. They're all for. I don't know I'm assuming it was a setup fee and they gotTA. I pay a certain amount for hustler's for a I. I'm not sure exactly how it all works but you'd think yeah for concessions just having people in your body's going back to when I was trying to book a place venue in Vegas for the after his Astros five hundred episode and I'm like hanging bring like maybe a hundred hundred fifty people to your venue that it'd be thirsty and hungry equal that yeah fourteen hundred dollars a starting price and then there was a bunch of debt now for two hundred dollars. I think that four thousand dollars with the cheapest I saw until we actually landed on a reasonable only charge me to bring your customers. I'm bringing you business and yet give me the business to business. I liked like different. Let's talk movie where to go for tickets groupers. The movie Dot Com has the up the has a click button right there at the top groupers the movie Dot Com you can also see all the Laurel leafs over there that is awful. It's been already mentioned on the show Hustler's Hustler's. Why why would you see I assume why would you assume that I assume you see why? Would you assume that I saw fucking hustler ninety one percent around minutes. It's in verse Brand Your Dyslexia. The numbers it's nineteen percent should be talking shit sweet but we gotta stop all this right now. Yes I saw hustler. Okay talking to you. Dog Shit I duNno Renan drugs by Laurine S- Ghaffari up. The arena is known for a few films. I have not seen including seeking seeking a friend for the end of the world also very Brian Movie Yeah. I'm surprised I remember seeing the trailer. It looked funny. I never got around to watching it. Adopted from a Twenty Fifteen New York magazine Article by Jessica Pressler called the Hustler's at scores Jessica is portrayed in the film by Julia stiles the Stars Constance Constance Woohoo you might know from crazy rich Asians Jennifer Lopez Kiki Palmer Lily Reinhart Cardi B. and Julia stiles. This movie needed more. Yes it is you can probably guess from the title of the article. It is about strippers stripper at scores. Strip club never named scores Rams. Things never named aimed right in the film. It's still in business. I guess they didn't really need to slow things changed a lot of details yeah this currently last. I checked saying eighty eight percent rotten tomatoes which I there are a lot of strippers in bikinis in his opening Sharon strippers everywhere and then bikinis and go fuck this. PG THIRTEEN IT turns out. No no no. I checked after sitting down in a theater at our I was already fully all chips in chips all in and out. I was committed and I'm like wait. What am I what what am I doing and then like. I was very happy to see are rated as you initially to wait. Did you check afternoon. We started or you know I was waiting for the movie to start. I didn't know if you'd you'd see the bikinis and at the same thought that I was like Oh innocent guzzlers. I fucking loved this movie. I really liked he really liked. There's movie. This is a really well made movie this. It's easy to call it. A goodfellas for the ladies got an obvious Scorsese influence. He's definitely influenced Taufa Wall Street than Goodfellas Ghaffari. Ah It's also got a you say he is a woman all obviously influenced Ghaffari. A- I who she's an actress she. She's one of those people you know her face but she's not in a ton of stops using coherence which I absolutely loved from twenty thirteen which is a fifty thousand dollar movie where a bunch aww actors and I got together and they just said let's make a fun sci-fi movie and it's really compelling skolko heron streaming for the longest time might still be but I highly recommend that doc coherence. She plays Leeann that Little Wolf of Wall Street. There's definitely Scorsese vibe on this just in this shooting style alone Onishi using similar as wish pans portions all that and the energy the movie has energy like it ebbs and flows. It takes time at certain points when it has to other times. It's it's popping. This movie like this really moves it does and got likable character compelling characters. This is the first time I think I've seen Jennifer Lawrence for Lopez in a movie since out of sight and the one that I saw her and that was the cell and Selena this might only be like the fourth move our senior in because he's in so much shit. That's not for me at all. I mean I'm struggling to think of something. I've seen her in decides since the sell this is a really really well directed movie. She takes chances with a number of things and it works. I agree it's it's a well written it is. It's well directed. It's funny that we're talking about this briefly briefly on the Kroll show he looks around going the wrong tomato scores and he's like hey I saw it was like eighty percent and then I saw was like sixty eight percent amongst the the the audience and his thought was Oh. It's getting cred the critics bobbing it up because the females minorities Blah Blah and I actually had I say hey man. I've seen the movie it's actually really good and I think the reason audience score so much lower. Quoting yourself is what you're really uncomfortable thoughts if the audience course almost lower because they were sold this sort of this sort of a shiny pop jalen movie workers are trying to make it's not no. I think that they would like this. Why wouldn't they this. This is a movie made for women by women with ball. This is a fun movie. This movie has balls. It's and I think that it would it would stick the landing with the female audience who doesn't like that and for me. This third time's a charm even though it's not fair to say because I did not see the kitchen after the abysmal ratings it was getting which I'm part of the problem. I should just go see a movie if I had any interest despite what the rotten fucking tomatoes is said about your movie but widows was Brian. The widow those was deeply disappointing to me that came out Steve McQueen from last year. It wasn't bad it was just it was. There's that one scene that shot right that was fantastic where Colin Farrell goes from my kids that little rally speech to his house into the shot. My wife hated it so much but I loved it. It showed like how how how different the parts of the neighborhood are such close proximity so good but I didn't see the kitchen but similar story and this one's Kinda like third time's charm or it's the ladies are taking care of themselves and it will come up and smoothie to in large part because it's about the pricks on Wall Street who fucked us over in two thousand and eight thousand nine with with a bubble burst in these guys all deserve any revenge tale but it wasn't all that in a could've I would have been more satisfying if they really lean on element and made these guys like the Dushi subdues and there were a number of do she's like I saw a couple of guys reminded me a you a little bit in there for sure but then there's a cool guy in there but then they also had like the actual victims because there wasn't a victimless crime and there were some actual decent guys that got caught up in this that were so what the stories is these strippers after the meltdown strip joints kind of three. It's I hear us. We should point out like that. Often doesn't click with mainstream audiences. You know what I mean like. These are not white white hat or white g string as a war heroes. This is these are people who are doing things aren't you don't feel bad about it yeah and after the meltdown after the the financial crisis the Strip joints they they cleared out there wasn't much clientele. These women were like in survival mode. They were looking for something to do hustling Jaylo. who was her name a Ramona Ramona was that it was Brian White. You didn't have to write it down down. Is it makes it more impressive. I know you were pointing out like a teacher. I didn't memorize that part of this but remember from the reader you just said Ramona and I said Yes yes. WE'RE GONNA move down but then you had to say. I like make it a point that I did not write that down did do. I'm pretty sure as Ramona I didn't write down the an excellent memory Ramona. Oh so you're Ramona so remote they come. She comes up with his master plan. She's like an old seen it all stripper who's got all the moves the kid of plan plan dementia go find. Wall Street Fox especially if they have like nice shoes and wedding bands on and they drug them with Ketamine and an MD and then they fleece them they they took they took the credit cards and they got their pin numbers from them while they're all fucking tied drunken and they kept upping the scale and this is based on a real life story so I'm trying not to give too much besides just the plot but they also showed some of the guys that weren't necessarily like Evil Fox that maybe serve this kind of got caught up in it that considering they kept going back to the bar set up the other kicked off every one of their heist hice describes the most the vast majority of the guys in the movie. Just seemed like just guys got caught up in this thing that happened. I mean maybe maybe they shouldn't have been you know at the bar ladies and worth their lives. It was funny. It was really well. Done could have easily been a cheesy more broad stroke of comedy. PG Thirteen probably would have made more money to HBO movie and it could have been like you know could have made that way but it wasn't made that way. This could have gone down that road. It's a quality movie. I really agree. I quite liked him to hear you because they don't have to defend this movie team. I would have to take a look but I think right now. This might be like a top ten contender under who knows so we we should also look this up but how how did you the box office is second place. I heard okay. It's still behind another movie. That is bigger. No Monday out earned it chapter two as today probably getting good word of mouth. That's something I do to ah the too bad reviews to ski reviews. Gruber's got I immediately look at like the most recent movie that they they rated in both cases it to five stars of loved loved it. Maybe you're on the right train interview one of those somebody who gives me a negative review which I'm sure that I'll get more. I'm going to try and get somebody with the balls to. You're not going to attack them and I'm not GonNa Vincent Gallo them but I'm hoping that somebody will sit down and have a phone conversation with me for I've gotta move to make because I'm trying to be transparent with everything it hasn't. I'm hoping that somebody does that. It's funny 'cause I came up with that idea while I was walking with atticus around the block and kind of doing I was. It was thirty six hours. There's only two reviews reviews out there and they were both fucking skate. One is so bad Brian. It's like ugly mean really like a vendetta yeah and it was the first one that I read and I had to tell the wife and I felt bad. 'cause there's so much self doubt in this fucking. It's it's my only experience with having anything review. Get Shit doctor driving on twitter all the time about the podcast but like what book out thankfully got mostly positive reviews but there was one then how do you do anything negative with a guy wrote a book about how he overcame the odds and survived you. How are you going to pick a negative review critic proof. There was one was that I was. I think it was penthouse. It was someone snarky and they said something like the book starts off with the least interesting meet meet cute sore who've ever ever heard like most interesting what meets you saw. Christopher Dot Kristine. I met with the least interesting meet cute sore you've ever met and I don't know what remedium no. Oh it's every comedy has a meet cute. It's like the characters are meeting serendipity. They'll their shop gloves. You know what at the end of the book I read the gloves every high school comedy where they they bump into each other in the hallway but the but still yeah exactly what one Oh oh blind by the light bumping each other in the hallway their school more ordinary yet they bumped in which Uh Brian Rob something. It wasn't book so it was a tape yeah but that counts too so yeah it's when I read and I got an actually got a negative review from of all places like this website there was like for doctors and like they took issue with the fact that portrayed by doctor my doctor so badly the one who gave you the must've really ham handed way but I was like oh I mean you know that's funny thing to pick apart but okay. It's just my point when when you see your name in the print and the right obviously Cowan Alan didn't have the ability or the wherewithal to continue down this road in that kind of thing because this movie is so me. Are you sending a screener to bills movie emporium. Oh I should really touch with bill. Listen to this real quick before we move off hustlers which we both give a thumbs up to with the J. Lo I turned out. I saw a bunch of early work and I was not aware that I some money train okay. I saw Jack I saw blood and wine nine. These are all in succession money train Jack Blood and Wine Selena Anaconda u-turn us out of sight aunts. Oh my God I saw like her. I the Cell Holy Holy Shit. Stop Watch wedding planner did not say and that was the wedding planner was the end for was the the line in the sand and I didn't see another movie of Hers Until Until and then She Jersey girl. Shall We dance. I didn't see any monster in law. That's a good one if you meet a lot of Shit but she's she's capable actress. She's very good. I I wrote down to my notes that it is not outside their own possibility. She gets nominated for best supporting actress. She was really good in this. You know what did a bug a little bit. was that a little bit. I when they're playing the sisters right during the stings during the fleece jobs and they'd walk over and over again I see that's slow motion shot of them walking down the bar all of them. Are you on a runway but that was funny but it happened like four times. Aren't you trying to be a little bit like. Oh Yeah we're sisters. We just happen to be here every time they have to walk down to the audience that they're pulling scambos data to every unsuspecting guide all these bombshells if I needed to see that five times to longer fee Jennifer Lopez longer be but Lorraine Fara who I'm saying that right Scott Skafar area so far as far. The meddler was also very good. I enjoyed other Jersey girl. Come on by Jersey girl. I said that and Jelly you don't solicit you didn't see Giglio. No that's all I reviewed it. the same director that hustlers the medlar. There's very little crossover here you you could not tell that it was the same director. I don't think at all however I did like the Metro quite a bit starring. Susan Serandon Rose Byrne as well as Brian Jacobs Simmons. That's about a rose burns just trying to get away from her mother and Susan Sarandon's just always in her life and like moves where she moves funny funny. It was a lighthearted comedy. I enjoyed it. Should I sit the medlar. it's all right. I mean if it's on in the room can sit down. You don't have to like dry die for the remote I want to. I want to suggest you die for and find it but you don't have to turn it off if it's on. Jennifer Lopez has essentially a cameo injure girl the opening why we're talking about Mattis because that's the last movie I've seen her. Why would you see that truly Kevin Smith Get out. Get Out. Get Out. Get Out now good movie 'cause I'm not bad what else you see brand right there in the now what what else Seinfeld. Let's move on to films this week House. You're very excited for me to see it. I was it's amazing the amazing Jonathan Documentary. It's called the amazing Jonathan Documentary directed by Benjamin Berman who you see a lot of see a lot of Ben Burn. It's okay though we're going to have to do almost entire discussion for the Patriots only spoiler discussion. I'm afraid because it's that kind of movie we'll be and I just WANNA. I'm so excited I have not been able to talk to anybody about this movie at Bright. I'm very excited and talk to me. Is this the kind of maybe that's best best left like don't say anything about it because it unfolds in a very weird way yeah yeah. I think the less you know about this one the better and I think that you and I are both fortunate enough to have seen always amazing which was a patch job of a documentary of so that a few times now which is what you mean by that. It's just kind of like a little bit here talking head there. This is amazing Jonathan within and found it very conventional annoyed it but it's like it's like amazing. Jonathan had a brother who was looking to make something for his brother about his brother. You know what I mean it. Didn't it didn't feel like somebody any fawning yeah. It didn't really feel like somebody who knew what they were doing. made it. It you know Steve. Berg seems like a good guy hurt him. Bill Berry's first time filmmaker. I just Kinda did this on the side and he was just fucking around. I heard them talking about it when he talked to me about it on the show and he seemed very passionate. Let's dug in first time director when I was watching it and you had signed a to me thinking wrongly thinking that it was the sundance movie that you had flagged and you were very excited right and I could see how you make that mistake because there's two documentaries out at the same time about the same guy I was watching ten minutes and I said this last week and you made your little joke and and I said well this is not does not feel like Sundance quality caliber and I said well. They're just taking everything now everything and then he said not taking groupers and then we went to break. It was very hurtful right. So all you need to know is that there is another documentary always amazing which we talked about yes earlier in the year and that was wrecked by Steve Byrne and this one the amazing Jonathan Documentary is directed by Benjamin Berman and I'm going to leave it at that so it is about the amazing Jonathan who was a comedian slash a former magician and like a prop comic almost and he's got a a huge following he had a residency in Las Vegas and that's the guys of documentary that's what the documentary essentially initially was supposed to be about and then it turns into something else because of other events and once you see this documentary as one of the funniest both you've ever seen once. You know what you're looking at you. You have to see the documentary. Let me ask you this. Did I over sell it a little bit but I mean you raved about it so much. I liked it quite a bit. I didn't find ended like transcended like holy. Shit what's happening. It was more like this is. This is a really unique. Well done documentary unlike most that I have ever seen yeah. I just got the talking head. Burn out I've had quite this is not that most documentaries are talking heads. They look slick. They look smooth. It was it in this documentary that we see. I we see mark. I will fucking. He's like we've got enough. We've we've got. We've got enough documentaries. You can still making merit Mark Mary. Yeah that was in this documentary right. I think it's also just the journey the of this poor filmmaker who's having some some tough times and it wasn't him more about maybe the only documentary I've ever seen were where it's the type with documentarian in it where it makes sense and it has to be that way other than maybe super size me. Morgan spurlock yeah so that was obviously that was the movie so he made some other stuff to this guy. He's not. He's not he's director workaholics. I feel like okay. I've seen worked with the TIM and Eric. Show for a while so I mean this. Guy's got some comedic chops but he's not going for comedy but it is funny with this. Thank should we just leave it at that. Yeah I guess I don't really know what else to say aside from getting into the what makes it interesting because it takes a turn I'd say probably fifteen twenty minutes then right if that yeah then and we don't WanNa even reveal the the turn so I I think we'll leave it at that but hey streaming on Hulu. If you guys have who do watch this if you have the time to invest watch the first one first and then and then watch this when always amazing compared to the fire festival docs like think. I'm glad I saw both because it gives me much fuller. Ideals were much more similar than these two right but right in the sense that seeing both gives gives you a much fuller picture of US going. You could show me clips of those and I but I I'm not sure which ones which fired but this one I mean. They'd be like oh well. That's that's the always amazing Asian documentary now. It's always my God. It's so you know where to go all right so let's get the fuck out here. That's all you have is the one on movie. I got to assigned film yeah. Oh yeah inflict that one in Chicago. What thank you do have another one. That's called Manos but I'm not going to do it right now. Else Manos and this one will be bandied about around award season. I I can't envision a world where this isn't up for best foreign language film. It's called the Manos. It's a modern day. Take on Lord of the flies Brian and let me just tell you it's pretty fucking intense and I will be talking about that one next week all right. I got a bank. Thank you here all right. We're already thirty minutes in so I'm not gonNA spend maybe I win and force you to watch working modest be seen theaters. Brian Select theaters theaters coming up next. We're GonNa talk about what we think of theater soon fall preview another book was purchased through Amazon banning other textbooks of course well I don't. I don't know so interesting. I I never thought this was I mean everything has to be taught right and everything you have to learn how to be taught and this is someone purchased not this the international medical guide for ships including the ship's medicine just. I guess if you're going to be a physician or a doctor or medical professional on Sean the ship on a submarine on a boat gotta you gotTa know. Your oh thematic at it being no ship that they meant like you know knowing like how to administer surly triage to an actual schiphol like if there's oh I imagine would be that's the way you phrased it right yeah. That's a good point now. Imagine it'd be international medical a guide for people on on if you didn't put the people on chip I read the book other things purchased on Amazon banner this top Anderson and Brian Dot Com because at the end Canon digital camera professional accessory bundle fourteen items in the mud landon suspensive Idaho. DJ Osmo pocket hand-held three axis gamble gamble gamble stabiliser within weeks ago. Someone also got a fait so you buy you view view g six plus three access brushless hand-held Jimbo stabiliser a another one F. A. I found I must yeah I found a Iphone audio-video sub master series for JK series Intercom System. Jk She's everywhere AFC egg on twenty ninety four inch gaming monitor. She makes gaming now. I don't think it's right someone else. someone got four. Delta faucets modern single handle bathroom faucet would drain assembly chrome chrome B. L. U. Jeanine pro full. HD smartphone triple main camera heatwave instant reusable bull. He'd packets and hand warmers picked up those GonNa GonNa get colds in well. Brian knows how to look at a calendar six toasts ninety percent wool blankets and olive green lean six half dozen three blackout easy total sunlight blocking window covers. Your blackout shades no kind of walk this. I just have French doors or Colt and they keep the sun out of the doing fine job. They're made of wood okay so there's no sceptre twenty inch ultra within frame Lewis. Led Monitor jobless speak five ten for Business Giambra USB and Bluetooth Speaker Phone International Medical Guys Senate Plan Chronics Voyager Advanced Bluetooth headset system borderlands three super deluxe edition for playstation four six wall Seville shoe and boot covers to the the math on this Irish Spring Deodorant Bar soap twelve count pack of six so is that not only four times six no no six time twelve seventy two to one hundred fifty four four so I guess for helping to say no. I I want you to check monette wants. Did it fall S. you're correct infant optics Video Baby Monitor Entertainment Optical Lens Just Samsung five hundred twelve gig Yvo select memory card adaptor and Nj Bird X. For Wireless Bluetooth headphones. Were purchased everyone wallace. Thank you try and do a bad. I think you're hitting post collectors. Since the last time you talked. y'All toy story was placed her as well as the tragedy of Macbeth to tragedy they were stuck on that story is it can we won. hocus pocus was there as well as dark phoenix. Two people got John. Wick chapter three parallel. One person got red dawn assuming it's the remake after the good one you see the red done. Brian sit in school and in the Commie bastards parachuting Allen. I saw the first one I assume that's what happened in the Canyon also click through the BLU ray edition which I'm going to have to see Brian's very excited to tell me that said now that Susan theaters thanks for clicking through in the Amazon banner guys lot brought to us and Cossio absolutely nothing so thank you thank you for picking us in back to the all grow and well come back in China countdown. Some movies recited about this fall and winter. Is he messed. You looked at the last two years list. You have your lists yeah but as is is becoming increasingly the brain. Stop drinking wine right now. He's doing sniff thing and it's really really hard. Look at it's tough. It's tough to look at those ladies. He's that Jillian asks. If I'd have sex with to make a movie I I think that was on the spoiler edition when even talk about that on the radio stations that people were lost now. I'm sorry that I brought that up because that was a spirited conversation. We just add about price. Stop about the the the amazing Jonathan Documentary Stopping Brian Listen I. I should have done this in the beginning of the program again but I failed to do so I wanted to alert the listeners first of all if you'd like to vote we have a top five listener list every week because well something. I came up with a few years ago which is quite a bit of work. I was doing it after a logan left. it's taking me a couple of hours of precious time so. Chad Yuki has he's been doing it for us for the last few months and it's been it's been great and he's got a great system and he actually does percentages now above this week we have A top-five listener analyst most anticipated fall winter. I assume the way you do that as you go over to twitter the twitter machine on the the film twitter page and every Monday I post host what the topic's going to be for Friday episode our facebook page. If you're a regular listener or it'll be our Wednesday late night. Wednesday show is is when it gets released. If you're a Patriot on member I should point out you guys get early and yes. I also put it on the facebook page as Brian just suggested so if you'd I would like to be part of that conversation in cast a vote for any of our top fives every week I do that every Monday morning and then we cut the boats off and Chad counts them up for us. Chad God has also going to be doing some engagement stuff with the The social media is he's going to be checking in with you guys posting stuff about putting a list posting stuff about the other movies. He's got some inside scoops like this week from Taffy. They had a friend over at that screen a bunch of movies at the Toronto International Film Festival which is Uh-huh Top-five Festival in North America. Perhaps the world so he has. He has a couple of movies like that. He's pointed out that are on his list this. This search for today's episode didn't make my list. I actually a little back and forth with Chad. I make a damn movie looks Horley. Boring and he's like well for my friend who saw well over twenty movies a tiff. He said this is by far and away the best one so a lot of the time when I'm coming up with a list like this like a looking ahead list. I'm going primarily off of who is involved in. It's not lazy. I guess it's an educated guess like Oh. It's that director in that writer. Well those are those are all the data points we have. We have the waves line as you know there. For many many many many many bad movies that have interesting storylines are soaring that sounds bad movies with accomplished directors and writers as well so only data points minds we have our who's involved who's directing writing the story and what's their story but I think like today's episode at towards the end the listener list that if you have not submitted your your pick to perhaps next week you'll make a point to be a part of the conversation and it will be you know interacting as well and and pointing things out and bringing things to myself that need attention that that kind of thing. I need more management on social media because certain routes to so like I will talk about the the one movie that I was was just talking about just now that I did not make my list but apparently it's pretty good so I won't go and save it for the listener list cause. It's it's on. Chad's list so so so Chad will look for Chad to be he I think he's going to send a little introductory on both the twitter and the facebook but it's nice add somebody over there kind of monitoring not even monitoring but it's like you know interacting watch handy for the behalf of the show because ultimately met garden. I don't have time these days. I'm not great at social media. I'm openly I. I wonder if I didn't have these microphones and all these things that I do weekly. Were talking to microphones. If I'd be much more active on social media I think I probably would be especially about movies because I feel like Oh thoughts. Save that for the I have an ongoing list on my phone rings. I WanNa talk about on the shows and I think if I didn't have the shows I would just tweet about them. So you know what I mean so I maybe that's outlet yeah so thank God that Chad is point to pick up the slack for both of us there and indepth top-five ideas topics. We use them all the time. Logan did his job very well but he didn't really do a whole lot of that stuff on the social media we never asked him to and I think that that's been kind of a blind spot for for this show so hopefully we'll get some more engagement there and some more back and forth and some more fun so let's that into it last year's list on do mine sure hit and Miss I had tied for five my most just pay for MS movies hit or Miss Movies. most anticipated for twenty eighteen gene fall winter stars born. He mean rhapsody tight five. I man tied at four with bad times of ill royale end up looking quite a bit you loved loved. Green Book and Number Three Best Villier Academy hold the dark number two whenever one of my worst predictions are prediction just worst entries on these less my number one being one of the worst movies ever seen. We'll welcome to Marlin species. I was not good I was not a good thing you couldn't you couldn't be expected to think it was going to be bad. Robertson Mechanism Steve Carell based on face an idea that it was probably be Kinda cheesy easy kind of sappy especially once trailers came out and said Holy Shit this. I was hoping perks cheesy but good all right so as I said I only we have six today. Thank God I learn i. I'm still your all learning. We're all trying to figure things out as we go here bribery. We're all trying to figure it out all right and how I've been doing this show with you for quite some time feels like forever over a decade and you know I'm still learning still are always looking to improve when I look at my list from last year. I'm like ooh things got to change this year yeah because I get so excited about the fall winter preview. It's where like movies or coalescence even in a decent year. There's chances are I'm going to see a movie over over the next three to four months that will stick with me forever and I will be able to refer back to for the rest of my life That's kind of exciting. It's rare when there's a follower which goes by without a super impact and it's exciting because I think a movie friends like I'm going to have a new little friend in my repertoire. Do you think about this when you have these specific thoughts like maybe whatever your version of it is like maybe the next whiplash is around the corner like that movie that look kind of. I think each movie is its own affected you now. I don't mean like a movie. I compare to what I'm saying. I'm saying like there's going to be a new movie. It's kind of like a sports fan like The draft is coming up right. You're going to get a new player. That's going to be like a staple on your not. That's exciting. That's fun especially if you're picking high and we're picking high here with the fall winter preview however I look at my list last year too fat back to many needed herridge. pared-down can tell you this three of my top five. I didn't even see that's not good. That never happened. We should commit to sing shame Jane. I should commit to always say feel like yeah. That's that's for sure so of the fifteen I saw I saw eleven of fifteen. Exiles are less fierce ago. That was many years I saw I saw I saw I saw ten fifteen and that's bad no because I saw probably thirty eighty five forty movies from from the fall winter preview last year round on your list but only you know not all the ones on my list so so what was on there number fifteen was the old man of the gun sought. The fuck. Was I think in didn't do that as your number fourteen bad times. The L. Royal Bryan Bryan Thirteen thing was first man twelve was actually I seen in. I man was genius. All downhill all it plummeted after that literally plummeted when he was on the moon no it peaked in the beginning when he was trying to break through the atmosphere and into space in his little jet rocket doc ID plane and then he plummeted down. He felt like you were in there because you see it happen on TV and you're like Oh yeah. They know what they're doing. Clever he was he was like riding fucking like flying metal horse stalling out God who is good but then there was the movie that once he started going back on Earth the whole movie came back down to Earth from all handhelds yet I hold I I continue to stand by my husband of that movie that the hand holding the hand Dan held camera shots was more distracting than if he had hidden jar jar binks somewhere in each frame that would have been less distracted gives equal distracting gazillion distracting. Perhaps because you you'd have each shot be alive. Actually still it would be still hidden somewhere in the landscape and like like you would get to the point where it's like where's Waldo and that you're not paying any more certain scenes where it's impossible. I've door like where he's on the moon or like inside of a crater cockpit or something and he'd be like you. Just you want to be paying attention to the plot at all looking for and that's what I was doing with the hand held. I was just looking at the corners of the frame going. Look at how much this guy's got. Several ballsy also is wrong number twelve apostle yeah side is is as the guy that directed the to raid movies and I was like Oh boy oh boy and I was like Oh shit. Oh Shit eleven was mid-nineties which was okay number. Ted and the girl spider's Web never even saw you put on what was wrong with me last year round number nine widows. I can't believe that was an higher on the list what the fuck but it was disappointed. Number eight ballot of Buster scruggs a lot like their number seven the favourite. I liked it. I liked less than most people but I'd like to number six. If beale street could talk underwhelmed under well number five silence Bills Street was one of those movies that everyone wanted so badly to push his like this really super thoughtful artsy movie it now the silence. I didn't see either Jesus Christ. I saw nine of the fifteen white wise the wife texting Jimmy Round. She knows that she knows. EMC movies silence is a Shitty version of quiet place and I never saw it. I saw like clips of it when it was streaming wherever it is it ended up being a five point two. I'm going to be what am I doing. I'm doing like antisocial of his net flex movie to you should know you should maybe didn't know back. Dan should know by now. I know no no number four under the silverlake. I've not seen it streaming everywhere. I need to watch that fucking Bohemian of a movie the follow up from the director that I did it follows. I have not seen it yet nor am. I seeing welcome tomorrow. Nora lab and that was my number three number. I don't know why did you hack my computer. I don't remember a lead up. Battle Angel be my a number. Two movie was fouled. Move cannot like the honorary on I kinda remember having this fight with your like it comes out like January twentieth. Is this a winter like okay and is this how we're talking about. No Brian ever do that. It's state February fourteenth. That's exactly what you do. They always do that are scheduled or supposed to come out twenty two in the year that we're covering anything that comes up a lot of time. A movie movie will play limited so that's up for awards and whatnot. I don't know man that's world premiere on January thirty first yeah. I don't know what's going on. I think you've got hacked my number. One last this year. Most anticipated was vice. Somehow what this is good. This is okay but what I'm on my tiptoes of advice so this year yeah. I did a whole lot better guys. I like fucking rain it in we going through this golden myself. Look at me design. Maybe we're maybe we're so busy making movie. Maybe at a movie to make all right so let's let's get to the real list a good list panelist so. I promise you promise a listener. I will watch all six of my movies. Is Your promise same. There's no way I'm getting off you. GotTa hold me to that Brian. Hold me to it listeners. I don't hold you the shit because I'm always disappointed like to. I like to think Chaz for the beer. Enjoy some local reno beer beer. He had to get it because the name was a nod to align from film a Shitty Film. He says but still number less. Whatever enjoy the free beer the the line is a beer bong from a lady is that from like year one or one of those your highness and is one of those two? Jack Black say that some more but I'm not sure where so. I don't even know what movie but I wanted to kill. Chas he actually he was one of the he got the coal a Coal Okaka package and it got shipped back to me because he gave me the wrong address and he blamed it on fat fingers but he said so I sent it back out more money on the pocket and and then the box show back up now in my Po box again. I'm like fucking Chaz how and then I felt it and it was very heavy and I'm like Oh this linguistics he just reuse use the box my smart thanks for the the Beers. Beerbaum from a lady how much crossover jazz to go for three three of Oh six eight now by number five. That's how we do this. It's okay to fill that can't I can't believe I have this low on my list told me that on my summer or winter preview list I would have ranked last but barely making the list of a a tight number five if Dr Martin Scorsese Yeah you know what would you say like. Do you feel like it's it could be a good winter fall after looking at all these movies there's at least there's at least to them convinced. You're going to be three actually the three hundred I'm feel real confident in and then there's three that I'm like. I don't know where this is going to go. it's one of those like if they pay off those other three pay off. I'm like okay good. Good good some years we do. This guy's not looking. It's looking pretty grim out there. Sorry to say but it's not looking too good but then we're pleasantly surprised Martin Scorsese film coming on does he does on network where directors go to die. If you told me that Martin Scorsese film coming out written by Steve's Alien Oscar Schindler's List also awakenings mission impossible gangs of New York moneyball wrote all those movies stories starring Robert De Niro Joe Pesci and Al Pacino. You don't be pretty excited about that but as it is. I'm Ed fly. Surrounding the Irishman is not two thousand five red flags red flags Red Banner Number One. It looks too good on paper. I call this the terminal effect. This is the Steven Spielberg. Tom Hanks movie the terminal which was not good. Everything's set up to be good at a great story had great director Great Star and just fell flat on its face number two great thrown around quite liberally Tom. Tom Hanks's greater. Steven Spielberg isn't great a lot fantastic number do red flag netflix. Um Netflix. I ain't it wrong. I am off the top of my head Anderson. You tell you office up here how you tell me if you're GONNA do better than I can. I can't think of a really good narrative movie like non non documentary produced by net flicks. Good call like everything. I've seen from them but a bunch of B minuses and pluses. I'm thinking of like bird boxer. I mother like hold the dark room. Hey I am mothers by foreign away like favorite that I can think of. It's also mind and I would give it about a beard B minus. I gave it a B. B. Plus what we do grades here. Don Grades can you can you think of a really excellent. No Oh I just said no net flicks moving out there. They must be if I did a little research even worse than Rome. I guess that's kind of cheating cheating. You know what could've been or it's a documentary so never mind. Also blockbuster is once. You be my neighbor almost a flex moving they offered him. I'm five Mil said it'll thanks but you know it wasn't original still it's so it's also muddy waters like they'll go and they'll buy already done and produced and put their name on it and call it. Ah Fuck looks original even though but these movies like a lot of thought of Rome. I DIDN'T WANNA get ten thousand tweets they this was in development from the get-go that this this is going to be a Fox movie so it's interesting because when you mentioned before the silence right that's another net flicks that I can't imagine is really great didn't bother seeing it. I mean I saw a scene in. It looked absurd. I mean it looked like Saif. I looked at one step above the sci-fi Channel Silence sci-fi Channel. How what's the actually the twenty percent around. What is groupers silence the silence or do you know that they rebranded the Scifi. Hi Fi channel because they were afraid of too. Many people off didn't like science. ICP FANS so they re. Do you know what it's called now. They actually renamed S. Y. Yes yes I fi like they took out the science fiction channel this is this is this is the accuracy think of the court scene. Oh it's so good I think I think I'd be happy if I if I if it got to that point where I just had to live live in a studio apartment somewhere in some horrible shady town. I can watch eighty Agassi over and over again to speak okay. That's all yet there's worse existences for sure tied with the Irishman which I will see and I would like very much to be good. tied with that other movie that if you told me pay Brian There's not just rescinded Star Wars movie coming out the final star wars movies coming out what the final one of the of of nine films of the three trilogies the culmination the rise of Skywalker for Star Wars comes up December twentieth drew my J.j Abrams. I'd be like wow I can't wait to see that and now if the star wars movies have lost their way these you're you're saying something very profound that no one has ever thought of before wasn't a fuck feels to me Mr Blink. It's going to be able to make some commentary. That's the best thing that's what I get excited about with. Only we get more MR blanket. Maybe it wasn't such an obvious statement soured the movies have lost their way as I really liked rogue one and you like Solo Star Wars tight but the last two star wars movies. I don't know where I don't. I don't know where they're going. I don't know where we're going from here. I don't know how the pieces imagine. This could be something marketable imagine there'd be some cuddly animals atticus was we were best buy a couple of days ago and he found a pork and he's like please Daddy. Please keep never even seen any of those. fucking movies put that poor back no but they they get into the psychology of the child's mind to see the movie to want the toy love the creature the loss do movies star wars was talking about this disastrous mix of like there are member. Bury's Love that character or I love that character to bacchus back below and then like poor character choices like every major move like the wrong move move. I mean narrative like you know what I mean. I don't know the movies veered so far off the track that I don't know I know where he number five a a for me. I'm still going to see it to movie. I'm actually quite excited to see in this tells you anything about my list about the fall winter later season that we have upon if this is five eight for me or you know towards the bottom of my list for most anticipated. It might be a pretty strong ear. 'cause I'm excited sided honey boy. I'm excited about honey. Boys barely missed my last film written by the Booth Mr La Bouffe starring. Ain't childproof his dad and Lucas hedges and Noah Joop. Yes not kind of about his dad like its bio autograph. ICAL and it's it's about him as a child star in the tumultuous relationship that he had with his with his father and he plays the Father Care Bombay. Beach is a documentary about the Salton Sea which I enjoy quite a bit. The director of that is directing this one. Her name is almo horror out Haro Herrell something like that almost a first name. Oma and he showed off his Lou. He's playing his Dad uh-huh and he trailers good. I got some of the theater worry about this. I move. I worry about it because I really part of his rehab or something right. I read that did you. Did you know anything about art installation than he did. I sat in a room with a bag on his head. Yeah I'd heard about it and it said I'm not famous is going through some stuff buddy of mine version of the show rant land he went and stood in line for like forty five minutes or whatever it was to get in in two thousand installation that had childproof sitting in an empty room in a chair with a paper bag on his head just said I am no longer famous or something along those lines with eye holes cut out and there's a chair within certain and then there's an empty chair and you have to wait in line and then you go and you check in you say and then they just like go in and apparently the deal was that you can do anything you want in their spend as much time as you like in there. You'RE GONNA ask him anything. He's not going to respond to you can do anything you want to him and ran just went in for experience and he said that it was very uncomfortable. These said that he could he could see that. It was him and he just sat there. You might have asked. Is it really you something I like that and he nodded and then he left uncomfortable fairly unsatisfied. Shi'as doing things that are a little different YEP. He also came out of experience not ran but Shiloh booth after doing that for however long did it claiming to have been raped because in in the in the Ruma L. because people do whatever they wanted to him and he allowed it and I guess if you're allowing it. It's not attack but that's what parents that comes at the ticket so I I feel like if he can if he can stay hells somewhat healthy and survive. Whatever this life is is throwing him. I I think that we have a lot more interesting things to come from this and he filed this tooth down to get a role in fury of years ago and I feel bad because a movie was on good. You got the role. It was slightly above average governor. Religious didn't like the movie or the are him the religious I liked him. He's fine that child but I've told the story about him on transformers and getting hammered and be going missing and they couldn't find him and then on the walkie talkies. They heard him like drunk in the back seat of a car going to fuck. You elect to fuck whores. He stole my buddies a case of beer. It was on the Camera Shaya. I liked this guy. I WANNA see more from honey. Boy also WANNA grab the BOOB. I'll see boy. That's bullshit mentioned that comes out to the number eight. Is that good therapy like if I had to go back and play my dad. I don't know if that'd be good therapy and the great there be like well. If you're an actor Shit Sherry so sensitive sort of is a here that all the time he's so sensitive I shit share. What'd you do number five from Ford versus Ferrari sorry I mean how could you not have this on your list Christian Bale Matt Damon got the racing going James mangles James Mangold never mangled when when he was like the wonderkid hop land and everyone's I could see the youngest director with the biggest cast avenue was that before or after identity around the same time it was the first movie he made so so Let me do math here before now he did heavy cop land so heavy was the first movie really like that heavy so I was totally wrong there but then girl interrupted kate and leopold identity walk the line three ten to Yuma night and day nine days not bad the Wolverine Logan and now Ford versus right my my reason why this isn't Hiram he he makes big Hollywood cookie cutter better straightforward productions for the most part just recently. I disagree that Logan was so off off the charts better than anything else that had come out. If it wasn't based on a comic book hero it would just be another noir film about this troubled but that's interesting because it is that that Comic Book Construct Instruct about the superheroes and the superpowers and the X. Men the Bob La but it takes it in a very I mean it. It stands apart from at least all the other combat movies in tone. You know what I mean. It stands right up to my most nor films cinema saying row row putter cookie cutter with with a different skin. That's a class half empty way to look at the cost at full as to say he took something that exists in one cookie cutter. Genre and Russell that away I don't i. I don't think of him as a really good movie was nominated for best screenplay which is a hell of an accomplishment. I come from what I've seen from Ford. I and I should also say my DP worked on this moving the pretty much the entire production and he he's pretty excited about this when he doesn't get excited about many movies he worked on on on transformers. That's right I I mean he's been to the top of the mountain but he's pretty excited. He worked on dunkirk excited dunkirk. He's excited about this one so that tells me something I'm excited about Ford versus Ferrari which I also really like Documentary Lamont but Lamont twenty four hour every say that I did. It's good it's I will introduce you to the director sometime. co-director brand name recognition director slap. My name film sold them offer me I. I'm not con. It was the Harry man just in case anyone who is familiar with what we're talking about. Adam Curle Geico directed the twenty four hour twenty four hour war which is very good brides and that's one movie I enjoyed even though I don't care much about racing. I still found compelling story as I imagine for v Ferrari's number four for eight. I am not sure this is going to be good but I am interested in bombshell Michelle bombshell. This is Brian Movie for sure. Yeah I WANNA see it but this this chill it's about Robert Ails Roger Roger Ailes Jose Fox News comes out g January December twentieth directed by Jay Roach. You like that football player. Anderson who is like a low ceiling thing but like a secure floor like since he did Austin powers and meet the parents who's a big comedy director in the early part of the late nineties early two thousands. He's he's basically didn't like above average. TV movies like Recount Game Changers. I assigned to you which I liked but above average remember all the way game changer game changers one about tailing documentary this came out this week and all about plant based athletes a really cold game changers two very different reminds me a little bit of Adam McKay where he's trying to take in there. He's being John McCain's being allowed to take his comedic stylings as a director to like more serious roll like two more serious places. You know what I'm saying. A Red Flag. Jay Roach is not known as a direct who takes a lot of chances so I'm not imagine mangled dairy. I totally agree that the good news Anderson do there's a ridden by Charles rand off my mother Oscar winner for the days short short the writer of the big shorted back there right shell worst case scenario. I can imagine this being on the level of like an above average. TV movie best case scenario is on the level of the big short so short out of a case subject John McCain. I Know Bombshell December twentieth. I think that the the studio is kind of bound formula that really works and they're trying to replicate located right. That's what it says. Oh like if yeah that's sounds totally illogical. number four for me is a movie we that. I'm going to be shocked. If it's not on your list I feel like I was just thinking that no one likes that we try and give the listener listener inexperience we give them something a service something good for forgiving a third time do not punish them with that pleased tha that so. I'd rather hear you do your hacky racist jokes than than other common defeat the idiots mean I mean because there are people who probably listen who are dumb and they think that when you make a racist jokes there again. That's what I think too. That's how you that's right. It's talking to talk last the other day. Let's say namedrop I'm doing but he was. He was talking about feeding the idiots and how he doesn't WanNa do certain jokes because it'll feed certain idiots in the audience interested Diana. I can't wait to talk to my my racist goes Gold Ball Brian can I can. I steal that damn you and glass said Yeah you can steal it but I guess I'm not stealing. I'm giving them credit number. Four don't feed the Brad. Don't proceed before Joe Rabbit was thinking the other day. You know it's been too long since we've had a good Yucca war to of Nazi Germany like a good solid comedy about the atrocity and a Taika Waititi. Yes thank you. It's so tough she let's go for that. He's giving it to us and this man is is an accomplished comedian and accomplished comedic director. We should point out the director of Thor Ragnarok which about enjoyed and the the one before that the one before the older people wilder for the Willard people what what a fucking find that was fun. Oh so fun and such a lovely doing what you like so much I mean they can't all be people do like that. That's a very beloved movie is beloved. I don't quite understand that one but people like they're vampires but yeah this this one the Joe Joe Joe Joe Rabbit is a young boy. Hitler's Army finds out his mother is hiding Jewish girl in their home sounds like a laugh riot and it it is a comedy drama so not since Roberto Benin. Have we had a a solid comedy come out of the Holocaust. We should point out that this is not take place or at least from the trailers. I've seen in concentration camps or in the Holocaust takes place in like you know just Germany the dawn of it's it's it's like the glorious bastards. It's not just stuck and we're not going to be in the concentration camps the entire time we may hear more. Auschwitz Switz- is not like the the main backdrop here more on this later I would imagine so number three or four as number three or four totally and November Fifteenth Fifteenth James Mangold Christian Bale Daymond John Murtha. I'll just looks and F. R. Ment shitty young Noah Joop. He was a young boy in a quiet place. You mentioned more your movies run number for five or something. Sorry what you mentioned him in one of your movies around number five or something was in one of your number five movies. Noah Joop Noah Joop node would you it was in my number five honey boy ways eligible for rory plays Christian Belsen. Oh I think he was bringing them up again. That would you okay all right number three for me. It's just trucking along here. Knives out lifezette looks good on your list at knives out detective investigates the death of Patriarch of an eccentric combative family interacted knives directing. What are you GonNa. Do that doesn't sound sound like Holy Shit. GotTa see that right like why why would why would you be so interested in this. This is going to die in the town. Ryan Ryan Johnson Johnson Inc you directs is one written directed boy. Oh Boy am I excited to see what Ryan's up to because Ryan was a little bit lost fighting with Mickey over there with the last Jedi you could you could tell that he got a little bit of his shitting there but then Micky would like you know come up with a lightsaber and say no how dare you try and do that. Ryan Wi I will not allow that you cannot do that. We'll go over people's heads and we must keep this on on the level and then you see a little Ryan Johnson like slipping a little like that that's the elevator and the girl trying to hold onto one of the thing that was very good so the director of brick which Brennan are both little bit Lucon but oh my God. We love that looper. That's we should point out the a massive cast in this movie because that's how the trailer it's feels very drew drew got art. You know what I mean a little bit with the Rudra Goddard. It's got a little bit of El Royale and they're a little bit of with the production designed with the world. That second quarter has got a little bit of co-organised. Also I think it's going to be pretty dark or lease seems like in the trailer anyway. Daniel Greg Chris Evans Jamie Lee Curtis Toni Collette Don Johnson Michael Shannon Christopher plummer Ricky Lynn thome former guest sheriff Lindo Frank Oz and she was so she didn't she didn't find my joke funny Jospin. MOS- at it. There's something about a movie she goes that was directed by written budget Sweden. I'm Mike Yeah. She's great. It's a guy I know she. Finally there's nothing funny about that. That's why didn't find a funny as twenty go to next. We'll conclude our list of the movies looking forward to most this fall the best season of the year whereas gambling season bet it online dot. AG is here to do all of your gambling needs all of your wagering each every gaming needs if you want to do NFL and to Aa whatever mix and match the little bit of both Anderson USC panels like a slot machine not in a good way you bet against interestingly and winning and their losing also winning. I went four for five picks last week. Four or five was not enough. There were couple other competitors in the podcast. One sports net challenge for five. I four for five for five week. You guys got this week. Run Bet online dot. Ag Vikings over Raiders Patriots over jets cowboys over Dolphin's forty niners over the steelers and the seahawks over the saint who this is the steelers could be one of those teams you just keep betting against every week and USC hey and then if you go like five to five or win then our listeners five of our listeners get one hundred bucks right interface if they sign up. I'm Ben Online accounts. That's not a bad little deal. You my best. You guys get could win. Bryan's picks you could win. So all you gotta do is visit bet online dot. Ag and don't forget to use that Promo Code podcast one for your fifty percent sign up bone number one. Ben Online dot ag your online sportsbook experts podcast. Oh anyway setting you up for that. Castro any podcast but I'm just thinking in my head. How are they going to know that they are our listeners. How how did they picked by the way that works is if I go five for five then have people people tweet us with the Hash tags challenge or something like that and they include your bet online account number and they'll randomly pick five okay all right so if you actually go five for the good news is for everyone listening. There are not that many people like you know like compared to like some of the huge bank. There's like you have oh really good chance of getting hundred bucks we have five for five right yeah hey guys and then you can turn around and gambling let it rest of the season or San Super Bowl whatever you want bet online dot. Ag Promo Code podcast one. Oh any uh well. Let's finish off this list by counties down. It's up to films looking to follow mental. Yes we're doing yeah. Go ahead and keep the order correct top two or problematic that you'll see number two. Scott to be on your list. I'd be shocked if it wasn't. Although maybe I can see you swimming against the tide on this one nope swimming. I always go with the flow falling. NOPE NOPE nope joker. Come out the joker. I I am cautiously optimistic but there's a good chance that this I love the trailer for it too. I thought that chapter to it right in chapter. Two was like one of the best of trailer for Joker is fucking phenomenal. I know Todd Phillips was behind it and I. I know what Todd Phillips is done before. I don't know if he can update taxi driver. which is what he's attempting to do here? which quite obvious and no I'm? I'm cautiously optimistic but there's no way it's on my list now. Todd Phillips known as a comedic director of course Co wrote. This movie is Scott Silver. If that name sounds familiar he wrote the fighter and he wrote eight mile starring Hawking Phoenix. This is the origin story of the job or in is in part of my hesitate with this movie part of my hesitation is that said the joker for me work character because he has no origin story like he's just he's. He's manifested chaos evil yeah he's just he's manifest the all the all the craziness and the world's manifest in this one person so. I don't know I mean but that's it. I am optimistic about Todd Phillips Tackling something dark and dramatic. We both loved loved hated it hated. It was the last time time ahead we both love hate. I enjoyed talking about how it was a painful experience for you. What are you talking about this very. I hated seven years ago. I still think about. Oh so good. It's okay maybe I didn't love aided quite light edgy. Allen four-star star movie hated five stars. It's the most profitable student film ever made Brian. Todd Phillips directed a documentary about a punk singer named Judy now who is a father punk maybe he maybe he's the jokers origin story. You know what if if he slips in all seat hater I don't I feel like Todd Phillips has been appropriated by the studios. I feel like he's been sucked. Writes and directs movies himself. I know but I I feel like he's. I guess for lack of a better term. He's a bit of a sell out because I saw what he hated and I see what draws him into telling stories and I've seen what he's made since and it's not anywhere close to hate it now if he were to draw out a little bit and have some kind of GDP Alan Influence era. You know some nods. I doubt it but if he did that that would be like Fuck Gab. You know what I mean. I don't think I think he's more interested in his own career. Why wouldn't it be great career but okay. If you had to put your money down on. What's better the trailer or this movie. It's always the trailer always always almost always the trailer the this trailer so good. There's no way could even live. Oh you know what I mean. I should point out I forgot to mention star wars the worst trailer I've seen in quite it's not all what is it looks like. Honestly I was watching it on Youtube on my laptop and I clicked on it and it was like official trailer and I'm like I'm started watching watching this trailer. Someone made this unlike I scroll down a trailer so wait is the one show in theaters where she run into the desert and there's no. I know that that's the teaser trailer. The real trailer has like the first thirty seconds are like clips of Old Star Wars movies. Oh good it's not good red flag all right. Let's just get through this Kazaa poorly one or two from me chaos walking. That's a movie movie. I'm very excited about prime however however come on January kill you. There is no release the state. You sound a bit. It's tentatively but listening. Is this your little about this. I have to talk about this movie and I'm so excited about got it because it's a little man named dog lineman on another name Glenn. He made a movie called. Go called the wall. The movie called go. He started. What probably that you're bearing the League you know of course it's all you. WanNa do swingers. I you're moving Doug Lyons Uber Accomplish Director and it was written by a name. You haven't seen American made you haven't. I saw such a such a Brian movie written by a man named search. Forgive me up Shirali Call Call Kaufman. You nailed the coffin me you gotTa Charlie Charlie Kaufman Joking joke making a joke here. It's as good as your. I don't know who that is. I don't know who she is. Josh leaving Charlie Kaufman and fucking wrote the screenplay holy. Shit and it's starring starring mads Mikkelsen. Tom Hall and Brian it still being world where Daisy Ridley quiet time it is still being world where there there are no women and all living creatures can hear each other's thoughts in a stream of images words and sounds called noise holy. Shit our united nine trade Tom. Not We're not sure yet. It's it's it's it's scheduled for sometime in two thousand nineteen but they have not got a announced the actual date on Wikipedia says lionsgate confirmed during an earnings call though the film will be released on March Twentieth Twenty Jason Anderson this is this is pretty basic. Research Wikipedia is filled with bullshit as often the source is salon snowed it snowed Saturated Julian assange. I saw Julian assange opinions boyfriend all right Brian streaking got six on my list and now I have five if that is confirmed when I checked just yesterday because these things are always constantly moving a couple add on my list actually were scheduled for twenty nineteen and then they got moved twenty twenty just in this last week because they're constantly moving things around so I struck them. From the record I removed them but chaos walking last. I checked was still slated for some time two thousand nineteen. They just hadn't landed Marcher Sane March twentieth so that tells me that they're doing some major AH following poor test screenings the film on April Twentieth Nineteen. Tell no no okay all right. Whatever whatever what's your number one Jesus anger. I'm so excited chaos walking walking still intrigue to cast walking number one Gioja October eighteenth loved it is right now hundred percent right about that redirected by Taika Waititi starring Roman Griffin Davis is debut. He has no credit. IMDB Anderson a true unknown unknown Sam Rockwell Scarlett Johansson Stephen Merchant rebel Wilson and take away T- t himself itself as Adolf Hitler. The trailer is fantastic. I laugh my ass off sad not seen any trailers. It's great. It's actually drops this sort of uncomfortable bombshell on your lap and basically says it deal as we were joking about. I can see this going the way of four lions. You know what I mean like. Suffer shouldn't joke about fuck it. We're going to joke about it. He gets away with it because he's a foreigner. One hundred percent right this is the bright and cheerful comedy contrasted against Nazi. Germany looks at the film I wish was Anderson would make like it's like this big cast and it's got this over the top colors saturate will make it very annoying. I know I don't wish him to make. I wish it would make some ibis this movie. I wish he would make make don't wish that bizarre. Wes Anderson quite the follow up to four Ragnarok yeah well. I mean these are these are accomplished directors who know like themes teams and tones and light comedy and they will get like or like adventure and they'll get hired out by to do one of these franchise franchise movies but then they get to go and do what they actually million bucks. It's not even like you know one for the studio one for them. Even though it is that simple as that we get to see what he he would make if you know he was given carte blanche which he's got here so it's like Yeah Fuck L. Let's get excited Gioja Rabbit. I'm in number one. I'm curious the current war bright He's movie like this in forever by God. Am I excited and there's no fucking way can live up to my expectations. The current war the dramatic story of the cut throat race between Electricity Titans Thomas Edison and George Westinghouse to determine who's electrical system would power our the modern world directed by Alphonso Gomez really own director of me early in the dying girl. I've been waiting this one for ever Tom Holland and once again he's in both of these movies that are caught up in quagmire of miss it and unfortunate events with rewrite and cut its aid at test screenings bad bad news nope according to a comedian comes out January second. No no that's absolutely untrue. That's just fucking with me and everyone else October Talk October twenty fifth. It finally gets its release. This movie has already been released movies. There could be a documentary about making originally scheduled for December Twenty second twenty seven two thousand seventeen I know and this was a caught up with the guy that comes plant pots. Weinstein Weinstein dancing yeah they call him harvey scissorhands because he would go in and re-cut things and this is one of the victims of that movie I mean of of him of his Shitty nece that fucking guy so he would go in and not only when we get done communist plant and then he would go all right there could could. I've been talking shit about this guy for for a long time just like this man beat mentally for quite some time and when. I heard that he came plants. My initial reaction was of course I mean that's that's who that is on brand for and you know what he he buried. Was the founder a couple years ago which we both love. Oh yeah and he's he's. He's the reason why no one saw that movie and we're talking about. It should have been seen by more people Harvey scissorhands number one the founder see it so this was it got so far down the rabbit hole and because of the the scandal that occurred and this movie knock it in a fair shot and everyone it's like he had to enforce old amongst various studios since it was done I know he had to force poor women to watch him shower and then watch him come and plants and whatnot in and do all that stuff and then he would he would get done with that and then he would he would ruin filmmakers careers and also Gomez man is diverse looks like such a promising filmmaker and then gets caught up with this MEGLOMANIAC so I'm excited because I love the story I mean the the idea of you know the the Thomas Edison Tesla and George Westinghouse so attached jail. I know he's been stuck with. He's he moved down `member `member `member the the whole do member the whole overnight and the the story of of how he yeah yeah trophy crush troy duffy and Troy Duffy probably coming with he he's the director of course of Boondock Saints Murdoch Saints to Conduct Saints Three Yeah and plant comer gave him like the world said you know you're a very accomplished filmmaker very obvious how blessed he stop tour. Daffy bought in right in Boston and it was publicity. I it was all that kind of showing how Shitty Harvey SCISSORHANDS was was too but but he did that too numerous filmmakers and it wasn't always like Troy Duffy didn't make documentaries about all those instances because not everyone was as much of our sound you know a a satisfying target as Troy Duffy but so all that being said I'm very excited for this movie to finally come out. We Benedict cumberbatch playing Thomas Edison Nicholas Holt Plane Nikola Tesla Michael Shannon Plane George Westinghouse. Tom Holland has also in this and and they're all going to a lot younger. No I don't remember them looking like that. S So finally finally this movie's coming out and it's it's been released like number one as number one. I've been waiting for this movie for so long and then they can't take it off and then refresh it. You know what I mean. It's got six point three DB right now. It's already got almost three thousand ratings. How who's the and where but it's been. It's been a numerous festivals. It actually got released in theaters for a brief period. Yeah does it yeah. It's got a crazy crosses. The story was pretty sure Dr. Pretty sure that he got a little release over here. I'm dying to know scheduled for a lease pulled from release the World Premiere tiff. Yes September twenty seventeen young. That wasn't the cut that he was involved. In the reediting film of course he always is fucker so this is a triumph. I it was released on July this year in the UK probably why it has however many thousand review. It's had that many for quite some time because there's all sorts of festivals that it was at Napa Valley Austin Film Festival back in two thousand seventeen did the whole festival circuit with his shitty cut when I say shitty heat he he's not an editor. He's just trying to think what's going to sell the most like I liked the story like this like I I still think the reason why he didn't like the founder was he's all a lot themselves in Michael King characters as Croft. He's Great Crock all right so let's hear the lizards five. I'm dying down there lost imagine the Irishman Star Wars for vivre number five listeners something that was not on either one of our list but it's also rans and that's the lighthouse yeah intense trailer directed by the guy that did the witch. She didn't say much we should see. The witch knives out is number four number three stores rises skywalker number two is Ford versus Ferrari number one is joker. I'm telling you guys the Irishman Nonlethal List Genomic flex movie list and then what else Chad Yuki is doing is he's. He's picking a couple. listener picks extent didn't really you know make a bunch big splash as you say. The Lighthouse was eight percent knives hours. Eleven percent skywalker was twelve percent. Ford Verse Ferrari was twelve twelve a little over twelve percent and joker is sixteen point seven percents so pretty evenly thinned out there and then Nick Nelson on facebook. His pick was nineteen seventeen eighteen which is directed by Sam Mendes. That's a good looking trailer right there. fucking intense that's what on dunkirk debate and this is all about war one. This is I in the trenches of World War. One two a young British soldiers during the first World War are given an impossible mission deliver a message deep in enemy territory in enemy territory that will stop their own men and Blake's lakes own brother from walking straight into a trap a deadly trap and also Bruce Bruce Bruce on twitter came up with Manos which I've already seen and that'll be flick fessing next on a fairway Mountaintop Ryan eight kids with guns watch over a hostage and a a cow okay directed by Alejandro Landes jazz favorite films or most excited films. Chad our our new social media Guy Joe Rabbit as well as portrait of a lady on fire portrait of a lady on fire looks like like the biggest news fast you could ever imagine Brian. I don't know that is apparently I. I saw the title Bout I didn't look into it. Keep your ears open for that one portrait of a lady on fire uh for me knives out like you mentioned. I on paper no interest in the new terminator movie trailer gotTa. Give it Katrina is it though Linda Hill explained that the Terminator's gold how Lou that don't know how are they going to do the first time you thought about that. I know one. Why is he aging. I maybe it's a prototype. Maybe he was. Maybe it's not actually a tournament still behaviors on actually the terminator raise. The mother got in modeled up no so they're not going to do that. I know one person who's seen Ad Astra. They said it was a it looks. I didn't expect to be anywhere on your list or Zombie land to Zombie honey boy parasite. Yes parasites on my list as well the report that him I'm driver. It's about waterboarding says real laugh and nineteen seventeen. I I gotTa Shit done but you know we'll be covering him. As we go. DOLEMITE is my name. Eh It's going to be a Netflix movie a eventually but Craig Brewer director of Black Snake Moan and hustle and flow black snake Moan so he's he's back with Eddie Murphy this time and saying it's an actual bio pic but a kung fu fighting alter ego a dolemite who became nineteen seventies blaxploitation phenomenon Don rickles. The clown looks horrifying. It's about a it's a documentary about an actual clown name wrinkles that apparently we yes this movie out of their mind parents higher this clown to come and punish children are scared their shoulder much like like the data on on arrested development would do where he would hire actors to make it look like their arms got severed when his kids did the wrong thing. Gemini Man. It looks awful but you know what life of Pi looked awful as well pie was life changing gene. I can't get down with the trailer for that but gem man directed a buying Lee looks God awful but who knows the king directed by David Michel. Who did the rover an animal kingdom using either one of those now. I'm not there over the one that they're really bleak. Post Apocalyptic Them Kim pretty good Robert Pattinson and Timothy Shallow May as well as Lilly Rose Depp John Daughter starring the king and it's about a wayward prince I I'm not going to get into it's all like monarchy bullshit but I imagine expect to see that one at the top five predictions of the Oscars. How do you possibly we're kind of do that with our Oscar locks before we even get close to it like you know so bad. It could be fun can be fun. We could do actual bat where we actually have some riding on that. I just skip right over that. It's June. Ho Bong Young Joo Bong is back with the new movie parasite which looks like a black comedy of course he's the director of snow payers are and Okra and and number movies. Didn't we just see for members of murder at the the lighthouse. I got that on there. waves the guy that did it comes at night in Croatia which I highlighted both of those movies. I think a couple of years ago he's got one too young couples who navigate it through an emotional minefield of growing up falling in love. I'm telling you wave is going to be a movie that people will probably talk about judging from what Trae Edward Schulz's done with with it comes at night and Krisha doctor sleep not an either one of our lists Yup. That's why I'm a little less sick optimistic about but I'm interested Doctor Sleep as most of you know is a sequel to the shining and it's about Dame Torrance who who's all grown up now and he meets meets a girl with similar powers. This one is based on the novel by Stephen King. Obviously direct them on my flanagan mainly a TV director. He does creepy. TV shows so dark dark waters another movie that you might want to look at a for your Oscar locks this early in the game directed by a Todd Haynes. This is a corporate defense. Attorney takes an environmental lawsuit against a chemical company that exposes their lengthy history pollution. Todd Haynes always takes care of his his his. I this is like spotlight but for the Environment Fun and Mark Ruffalo is in there as well as Anne hathaway and I dark waters is a movie that will probably he'd be like a household name by the end of the year. Brin sounds like a good time Noah Baumbach new one coming out called marriage story and what else do I gue- what bombshell each you already covered little woman Greta Gerwig. I like her the director. She's got a movie coming out. He's reading little women again. I don't know if I'm interested Nah. I liked the stuff she does. Sarah Paul is one of the writers on it all right and just mercy. I love short-term twelve. This is really the first film that Destin Daniel Creighton Creighton has done since short-term twelve love that short-term twelve so gone and a couple of movies that don't have don't have dates yet but should come out this year city of lies Brad Furman directs Johnny Depp Forest Whittaker Hobby us. It's all about Hussien Hus- Russell Pool and Jack Jackson. That's that's a fucking name right there. Jack Jackson investigate the murders of rappers notorious by and to pocket core. That's a big movie city of lies. It's called no release date yet but probably sometime this year and then cutthroat city which is a heist movie set in New Orleans directed by Rizza. You know who's in that reser Wesley Snipes and Ethan Hok Return Cutthroats City city of cutthroats city and city of lies no date yet but those are two movies that could it could spell some pretty fun stuff Brian Right. I got a big passion for finally friends in Films Dade and one of the movies that we listed today at least one of them will be forever distorting off on Christmas when you're like oh one of these shirts or whatever I got. I love for the rest of my life many years. You're talking very material. I'm talking about don't again. We'll get the fuck outta. Yes results from last week's gambling. Thank you very much to Giovanni for for helping us out with this week in week out next week's gambling uh Hustler's what gambled on I said thirty seven Brian's at forty eight eight to current scores eight percent so I I don't feel any joy in green off by forty points joining able send you a film what Autism uh-huh Anderson we Sunday's preview every year my son list this year was actually ended up being so far one film hasn't come out yet but four or five live good movies. Hail Satan the amazing Johnathan projects and I had the right one is as Benjamin Berman. What do you mean you have the right one. Yeah you had the right one on your list realized that then you assign me one that you thought was that one but it was a different director and I guess it was on my list and it was from Sundance out out for blood and Silicon Valley and leaving Neverland. All all goodbye was four five one memory. The origins of alien has a release date of October fourth so apparently this one's coming out soon too however the one signing was an also ran for my son. Nets episode that I recently watched on Hulu and enjoyed quite a bit found to be quite delightful Halton you will to ask Dr Ruth Dr Ruth and whereas it who aiming on Hulu exclusively on Hulu by the way so for all you Hulu subscribers check it out otherwise AF retrial or sign up five dollars a month or something nine is a documentary that is streaming streaming on Hulu. We'll sit next week all right movies to gamble on this week ad Astra Second. That's what we do unless you want to do Rambo last blood I would mind those. Which one do you want to what do you do. You know anything about it. The one of these movies I know one person Astra rabble as blood beans son he said let's do Rambo last blood. I have no idea now nor do yeah. I I mean I have an idea but I don't feel confident about this. I've been talking to microphones today for probably nine hours right now maxine much no one is much me and it's like it's like they don't like a whiplash too because it's like talking to the microphones the movie and then advocates and it was like talking to my two and a half year old and then back to the microbes and then I've been looking forward to this day but and how is running out of steam and how to I do. I do number thirty to thirty five Geo. Give it to us. The eighteen current scores this week. What does that Astro Astra by the way no score yet Fred Astro for Rambo last. That's not good for me. Actually who knows who fucking those who knows critics will be celebrating the fact that it says last. That's right the title four percent for the old adage okay okay. It looks sounds about it doesn't shock me right and also last see ron fans rotten tomatoes score abreast none. I get out of here. I'm I drink one beer and I'm drunk tired and about these this if you want to help make things happen and help help be a part of the history of of groupers legacy and say you know what I saw in Chicago. I saw in Washington. DC I leave those two cities because you guys are the closest to actually getting the threshold met. You have until either Monday if you're in Washington. DC Tuesday if you're in in Chicago the other cities little tougher San Francisco. I hope you might come through the few take tickets. need to be bought there but I'd be very happy if you guys to go out on a Tuesday evening and see this movie that have been fucking talking about for three years. Yes what is your chance to go out now tickets at groupers movie. Dot Com. I just gotTa look Listener Art Can I just say I think the coach. Yes so that was an easy is he jab at me but no. I'm Lis- Young Lady Bird Lists Beth. I don't remember what the listener art has the heart of Aw Shit at all thanks sniffy Jones for that L. Listener Arts Sniffy Jones check out man X. Crash kit featured artists. This week thinks you guys are being the providers of music for the show pitcher on now top by blockbusters quote unquote of the last twenty years ears and coming soon tracks patriotic. Um Slash the Amazon bedrick. Click through by you at no cost to you and it helps us so why not Brian Dot com where you go to flip through there. We go to find information on everything free. Jarvis groupers tickets just left guys hop on that the film bolts on twitter and facebook. Thanks as always to our our people cannot do the show without Chad Yuki Mike Cole tabulating all of our gambling and Giovanni for constantly keeping the balance of this show rolling. Thank you know music wax so out to us to plug and it's all next we do is uh-huh.

Brian director hustler Dr Martin Scorsese Chicago twitter Jennifer Lopez New York City Ramona Ramona Robin Meade Joe Pesci Chile Brian I DC Chad Benjamin Berman Anderson Tom Hanks Steve
Stranger Things | Season 3 Feedback + Survivor: Hawkins

Post Show Recaps

4:20:20 hr | 2 years ago

Stranger Things | Season 3 Feedback + Survivor: Hawkins

"Today's post show recaps extravaganza and leave me by the run time. Perhaps you can tell that you are in for the Epitome of an extravaganza is brought to you by D._C.. Universe the ultimate D._C.. Membership for DC fans stands where you can binge the new original series titans and jumping part two of the fan favorite animated series young justice outsiders with new episodes every week in July and August also don't Miss Their Comic Library. That's over twenty thousand strong including more recent titles and complete storylines sign up now at D._C.. UNIVERSE DOT com slash join and oh my gosh strap in for one of the most ridiculous podcasts I've I've ever participated in stranger things it's three is over but we are just getting started digging into your feedback here on post show recap so everybody I am Josh Wait Ler and joining me to deliver the stranger things. Scoops is your friend in mind. Mike Bloom Mike Roy Hoy. I was GONNA say Josh Digging Season was season two. I think that's right time high. We went more towards the cold because we do like it cold but is hot hot hot as the sun. This is going to be a hot got podcast for your listening pleasure. At least we hope we've got a lot of business to attend to first of all Mike. It's been about a week two weeks or so. Since last you and I spoke in in reality but only a few days since people have heard us talking about stranger things but because of all the strange time discrepancy business that has happened in the creation of the stranger things podcasts I just must ask. How are you any any any stranger things? Three takeaways or lingering thoughts or developments are evolutions. Since last we spoke. It's a great question because you know we had the benefit of recording a lot of those episodes within our little castle will be in the side down where we weren't really privy to a lot of feedback from the outside community now that everyone has had the opportunity to assimilate this season into their net. Excuse it's it's been really interesting barometer murderer or thermometer to check out the temperature of the community. There are certain things that I might have changed my mind on both for good and for bad looking back on this season but I gotta say I think even more fun was watching people bull react to US react if that makes sense to me anyway particularly how essentially holding up funhouse mirrors to each other as a Russian guy sneak through with silence weapons that are used to kill fan favorites but occasionally we would be like shot in the chest and thank God we were wearing body armor yes or woody woodpecker plush to to crush the blow but it's been really fun to watch people you know give their own reactions as well. I mean that's what we're here for. We're here to hear your thoughts out there. The royal you I suppose the Tros as to what your thoughts on the season are and what our chaining opinions are as well because I think that now that we can look at the season as a whole. I think now knowing the entire Ark of things has certainly colored my mood bit as to certain choices that were made how about you. I know you've been quite busy with a number of other shows including shows here on post show recaps but any lingering thoughts or changes in mood that comes with a reexamination of stranger things season three as a whole. My first thought is I didn't realize sutras was the royal you it means you wall so but only in Spain for Sotiris everybody with a driveshaft joke. That'll be better her. That'll be better in a few weeks josh when you say it's no no no Gosh No. I may want to consider guy. I think this is going to be a very long pipe. Gas I will I will I will try and keep it together. No I think that my thoughts if anything I have the stranger things it's it's become fonder in in memory. I think that my feeling on stranger things has has evolved from being like crotchety angry. Why does everybody love this overrated show to getting to a place like you know stranger things as fun? It's it's I think what what makes me annoyed. Sometimes when it's like talked about as a prestigious drama where it's like this is this is something that should be like deep awards conversation which that that boggles my mind to a certain degree but going through stranger things three with you along the way and revisiting the episodes here and there. It's a good time at the movie. It's not quite the movies but when I mean we're we're we're sitting there drugged out of our mind actually the future trying to understand the plot points and it just happens that someone stuck a microphone Improv less able to capture are ramblings yeah so that that's changed for me that I've come to a place restraint. Things is just sort of this ridiculous show and it does ridiculous very very well and it knows what it wants to do at this point and it's doing it and I'm pretty happy to just let it do things let it do. Its thing and you be along for the ride to laugh and ask weird questions and be incredulous. Where appropriate can I ask him actually write off yeah? We're talking about awards. <hes> I know that attic it's always weird especially with netflix coming out with these summer shows what the rule of eligibility when it comes to emmys obviously stringer things was not nominated for this upcoming but come emmys twenty twenty. How many NAM's do you think stranger things season? Three's getting I I know how many because there's going to be a lot of TV between now and then and stranger things ah show that debuted in the summer of two thousand nineteen. How forefront of mind is it going to be come July twenty twenty twenty with so many other shows that have come and gone between now and then I expect I don't expect much to be honest but I may be really underestimating stranger things? It's gotten a lot of awards love at at least nominations in the past so you gotta figuring David Harbour will be nominated or whoever but I don't know we'll see we'll see that that'll be a podcast for for the future at some point Mike but this podcast just to set the stage. I think it's very important that we all get on the same page with exactly what we are doing here. This is the stranger things three feedback show that we promised all along the away we spoke of so highly we hyped it up beyond belief in here we could gain bowl of stranger things podcast. Yes will it live up to the hype you could be. We flames much. It's like the members of the clean bowled. I you know at this point. It's been kind of a funny ride of the ways and avenues in venues in which we've been flamed along the way on this podcast so I am I am expecting to catch at least a little bit of fire here along the way but we are taking your questions your comments your observations that were collected all season long whether it was on po show RECAPS DOT COM in the comments sections or or at the tweets we received along the way with so much feedback collected by the Great Brendan Fitzpatrick shoutouts Uffizi Brendan for all the work that he did. Here's that's going to be the beginning of the PODCAST. It's going to be the first portion of the podcast cast Mike we have plans for for a ridiculous second portion of this podcast which we lightly teased a few episodes back. I think kind of just like farted it out into the wind as an aside like man. It would be really funny if we did like survivor Hawkins at some point so that's going to happen today is this the theme of this podcast was we make ridiculous claims like Aiono. I don't know hey wouldn't be fun of stranger things that musical number and somehow it manifest itself into reality so let's harness that power let's focus on the fact that Josh you and I have become a brain steel experts at this point you could put on a business car hard to be sure and I will not president competitive environment so for those of you that might not necessarily be survivor fans if you're here for pure bred shrink things content only will hopefully give you enough feedback stuff. It'd be able to chew on while the rest dig into the subsequent fifteen or sixteen ice cream treats that is going to be survivor Hawkins. Yes okay so we're going to do. Survivor Hawkins is gonNA come to you. In the second portion of this feedback podcast survivor Hawkins into Brandt steel survivor survivor simulation that will be starring all or at least many of your favorite stranger things characters. If you not know what a brand steel simulation is or even on the off chance as Mike says that you do not know what survivor is or you're not a survivor person we will fill you in on all those details at the relevant point in this podcast and if you're just so excited that you need to listen to that part I I know a lot of people who listen to the wiggle room. Sometimes we'll do machete order and listened to the wand off I I I appreciate you I see you. I would like to help you. You can skip ahead to the survivor Hawkins Section consult the show notes on this podcast for the relevant time codes and you can you can just get right into that as always if you've not done so already we encourage you to subscribe to what we're doing here. On Poacher recaps do that on your podcast platform of choice and you can even subscribe to our show specific feed at Po show recaps dot com slash stranger things because believe it or not might even though we said this whole thing would wrap up with a giant feedback show. We actually have more nuggets to drop on the peeps in the we had ahead. We're not totally done with the stranger things now. We have some post credits credits content for you. It's not going to involve Josh and I locked up at any sort of Gulag but we are subjecting ourselves to some interesting pieces of pop culture that I would say are stranger things tinge ential very late and I'm sure you and I can find an ability to connect back to our favorite characters and Hawkins Stranger things adjacent. I would say we've got some. We've got some stuff coming your way and we'll do. We'll tell you more about our next podcast at the end of this one just a few things to drop on you in the weeks ahead as Mike and I start winding up our our post stranger things recap project so mike did I did. I Miss Anything that anything get lost in the shuffle there now. I think we're okay to land here. Josh let's look off to the next section are well before we fly off to the next section and that's a great segue because we're going to hop into the feedback and just a bit but first a quick shout out to our friends over at D._C.. Universe the D._C.. Universe is the ultimate D._C.. Membership for DC bands which you can join at D._C.. UNIVERSE DOT COM and get sucked into new original series like Titans Doom patrol and young justice outsiders the return of the a fan favorite animated series with a huge cast of D._C.. Most iconic young superheroes catch up on part one and then dive into new episodes of part to every week in July and August where you can follow these young heroes facing being new challenges in all corners of the D._C.. Universe and then you can get your comic book fix and Browse through their Impressive Library of over twenty thousand comics which includes more recent titles and complete storylines like the man of Steel Harley Gwynne 2016 the much anticipated Batman Number Fifty Mike. I'm sure some wonder woman in there as Max with with like to educate eleven on yeah I mean that's fantastic no better way to educate eleven as well as any other other people that are new to comics. I'm a little miffed no Bob Newby Superhero on their illustrated by we'll buyers but you know what it Seems D._C.. Universe has a lot of fantastic content. Nevertheless yes absolutely so it's also available on the platform. There's also tons tons of classic movies like the original Superman and if animated movies are more your speed you could join now to watch new releases like Justice League versus the fatal five and Batman Hush coming soon so D._C.. Universe it's available on your favorite devices and if you're thinking about it before now is definitely the time sign up now at D._C.. UNIVERSE DOT com slash join alright my let's do this. Let's let's get. Let's get into some MM feedback here. It is time to talk about stranger things three. I've got a lot collected here and I'm eagerly anticipating our thoughts in relation to the feedback you all listen to US ramble on on for way too long or the course of the last several weeks. It is your turn to ramble back at us. Yes Nice back rambling going on here. I'm yes okay so let's take this first bit of feedback from Jair Troiano now who wrote to us on twitter and said I enjoyed the podcast. This was my favorite of the three seasons the L._V. is by far and away Jonathan buyers even Max and eleven knew he was boring and useless they found both wheelers and Mr Clark more worthy of being on the wheel of people to spy on then Jonathan Mike. How do we feel about this? I think that we talked about will buyers. Ours is the M._v._p.. Certainly know how I feel about Jonah then Nancy so I'm not mad at shares claim that it's Jonathan buyers who gets the M._V._p.. At the end of the day only I point out the circumstantial evidence that Jerry points out which <hes> something that we didn't necessarily talk about episode three when Maxima were doing sort of like the stranger things version of crank calling people during a sleepover but essentially they said Hey. Let's use els power to spy on people which is how they figure out the spy on billy at the time or they have heather on ice and that's where they started figuring hey maybe things are a little weird in Hawkins this time of year but I believe he sent us an image of the people who are on the wheel and I believe it's what it's Nancy will is is our care. Mrs Wheeler is on their believe missio. Clark is on there we have a lucas was lucas on their make sense because I think Max would want to sneak on on Lucas if she could yeah but I think that as as is pointed out the one prominent name of a character who was not on that magical wheel was the one and only Jonathon buyers and this brings up a number of questions. Do they feel that Jonathan's with Nancy so why waste two spots on the board for essentially what's going to be one couple will do they find Jonathan creepy much like a lot of the characters did in season one. They afraid that Johnson just going to be looping. Should I stay or should I go on his victory Allah in his room and that's just boring. I'm not entirely sure it's tough for me to say that he's the M._v._p.. Only because warm the images that are really have this season was him getting absolutely wrecked by a metal stool but I guess by that logic considering it was done to him and not something he directly did besides a frustratingly yell at Nancy for consistently ruining his pictures pictures in the photo lab at the newsroom. I I'M GONNA put well as my L. V._p.. But I'M GONNA give the silver medal to Jonathan here well. He bungled the operation on eleven's leg and we have identified what happened to eleven through the bite as quite likely the source of eleven sees ears perked up source of eleven losing her powers right so what if it's because like like Jonathan like much in the way where like you really need to remove the tick correctly in order to get the tick out of there and be no no danger of the lime disease. I'm not entirely sure that's exactly how it works with the tech as you can tell the Jackman has gone too Kamenica would in hey I've I've been outside trust. I've definitely been out release. Schedule is arguing quite the office. Maybe Jonathan got the thing out incorrectly or like mess things around so much that he's the reason that eleven lost her powers Richard exactly put him in the territory. I mean that being very interesting living situation then concerned that she had living with the buyer's sort of I dunno held resentment towards Jonathan then I mean I'll admit I did like his macgyver attitude of him trying to you know gather supplies from the Panda Express to try to cut open els lake. I mean maybe I don't know if we should blame him for not consulting the medical guide as to how to operate on on things from the upside down but maybe if that's the case. I don't know I feel like we are delving too much into the what s when it comes to John that'd be the M._v._p.. I'm still stuck with my choice of whale. Just because in Jonathan at least did not have the same line line repeated over and over and over again for the last half of the series or then yeah we'll meet Alexi. He likes it cold. The slurpee is yeah so I think I think will is the M._v._p.. Hard for me to argue but I I will. I will side with Jair because it's an opportunity to further dunk on Jonathan and who am I to resist such a such a temptation observation from Jair and Jonathan got hit with a chair. ooh That's right. That's true so good point. This is from von Kramer who wrote us on twitter and said great season guys really enjoyed the singing. Oh thanks Kramer you were maybe in the mind as I don't know I mean we got a couple of comments. The general gist behind US putting ourselves out there was better received than Dustin all right. We'll say we'll get there. We'll get there von Kramer continues. I haven't heard or seen mentioned a call out in the finale to Christine with billy in his car in the mall parking lot. Did you guys think that or am I reaching also hoppers cabin scene with the kids was straight up the lost boys Mike. I gotta be honest. I'm not a big Christine guy so so it's not something that I I really picked up on the hoppers cabin scene with the kids in the bite at the start of the bite the penultimate that that I see that as a straight loss boys of everybody getting together the vampires are trying to burst through and everybody's rallied together not to mention the fact that billy really does just have like full-on Kiefer Sutherland from the lost boys aesthetic going. I I think he just gave executives an idea to reboot twenty four yet again with Dacre. Montgomery is a young Jack Bauer. I'm not sure that I'm mad at that. I feel like Dacre Montgomery as Jack Bauer type could be good yeah. Ah Dour amount GUMRI. I think that that would be. I think that that would be that'd be alright. I'd be I'd be fine with that. Also it also makes me think that keep her southern would be fantastic to pull into stranger things I think so I think that if we are going with our logic as we have the past couple of seasons of starting with you know starting with obviously winona Ryder we had Sean Astin last season carry always this season of like let's pick somebody from popular piece of eighties pop culture and pull them in for go either recurring role of fan favourite role or a main cast member role. I feel like we need to be on a roll with direct grow regazzoni to shine if rick if they end they ended with the snowball in season into the end with some sort of like fall formal dance and season four and Rick Ashley comes out and Sings Never GonNa give you up. I'm I'm I'm going to buy four more net. Flex accounts just to support the show. Even more batbold choice would approve. I want to see key for on stranger things. Now I feel like keefer eighties icon. He's in the net flicks family. Now that designated survivors net flicks show this would be a big casting a casting coup. I think that if we have you know we talked about who had hopper partner up with if he was in Russia to get out. I think if we have keefer play another American prisoner Jack Bauer is spoiler alert for Jack bowers his most recent sighting in the two thousand four universe but he's in Russia okay so action time yeah it's about time it's about time. Have you ever told you that I have a very extensive idea for twenty four the future <hes> where it's like a futuristic twenty four where Jack Bauer is an old man played by Donald Sutherland in the future battling a bunch of Jack Bauer clones who are younger keepers other ones while this feels like an Arnold Schwarzenegger movie could have been made like twenty five years ago yeah. My greatest hope someday is at least turn that comic book. It's not my greatest hope lost to is obviously my greatest. I was GONNA say I know that lost two has been more of a collaborative approach but I'd seems like you have a pretty straight. Allies is as to how twenty four the future or like twenty four squared is GonNa go just called it future twenty four at the time or I think maybe it was like twenty four thousand or something like that. How does that even make sense because it's like? I don't know it's twenty. It takes place under the seat Yeah Thirty Four Thousand Leagues and we're we're getting far away. Let's take some. Let's take some feedback Katherine Valentine Road into us with a couple of thoughts. Katherine Valentine writes in and says I've been seeing the theory that when hopper rights for the sake of your poor old dad keep the door open three inches to l. in his letter that perhaps it's foreshadowing that maybe he's stuck in the upside down and needs the door open. What are your thoughts Mike? We talked a little bit in our finale podcast about some possibilities surrounding hopper and how he could be reintroduced into the mix and season for for me to convey Catherine's question to you as a two parter one. We're still both on board that there's no way that hopper is dead right and to do you think that he is stuck in the upside down and he needs the door to remain open three inches in order to return yeah done do not play with David Harbour Roberta and stranger things cast okay. We know a deep fake when we see when you can poke post as much sentimental stuff on your instagram as you want to. We all know that you're coming back. I mean I think any any foreshadowing with that is purely coincidental from hoppers part unless he was able to much like Doc Brown's send the note back in time to have Joyce Place in eleven's pocket to get a hint as to where she needs to go but I mean I think think it's a good piece of foreshadowing considering that from what it seems like the Russians are at least messing in the upside down. We didn't know in the cold open from the season that they were working on opening the gate on their end seemed like it wasn't happening hence why they moved to Hawkins to get a the bigger key ray bigger dates. Maybe they've gone back to the drawing board in that perspective and I could see some considering that leaving hopper in the upside down has become a very cogent theory. I think among the fans this idea of leaving the gate open three inches seems just seems like something that always happens. You know. It seems like it's this damn stuck door that as much as you try to slam it. It's it's always gonNA pop out ashes yeah. No it's it's never we're going to close all the way I think it would be unintentional on hoppers part but I think very deliberate on the part of the duffers to leave us speculating with a line like that knowing that we're going to read into every single possible thing that they throw out there. I leave the door open three inches inches. It's pretty clear to me that like that's a sign that the doors to the upside down will stay open. I think I think it was an interview with entertainment weekly that they talked about how they've opened up up like new portals in the world of stranger things by the end of season three and what I couldn't get from that word choice. I believe it's their word choices. The word portals is I couldn't tell if what they meant by that was that like they've set the stage for different settings for season for which they absolutely have like they've now firmly established an earned further time spent in Russia. Should they choose to go down that route they of course still you'll have hawkins and they now also have wherever the buyers and eleven have gone off to. I've said Chicago would be fun because that's already in the universe of stranger. Things and Illinois is very much in the in the universe of stranger things at this point but wherever it could be there's at least three distinct places that they have I. I really feel like they've they've set the stage for like they could spend some meaningful time in a future season exploring the world beyond Hawke and so is that what they mean by we've established portal's or do they mean that they've legitimately set up the fact that like you can get you can go through a portal into the upside down in Hawkins and find some sort of portal that spits you out into Russia right right and could there be something that like in that Russian facility hopper is there can he get into like the sub sub sub basement of that facility and find some sort of portal into the upside down and go through there and fight his way back Hawkins with some say relative ease because it's not a plane ride from Russia Hawkins Right. I think I would take the flight over the trip through the upside down doesn't feel like much of a shortcut but I do just wonder if that's something that they're actually like legitimately setting up for season four something that they'll explore is like these people can all be in very different physical locations from each other but maybe they can loop into each other's lives with with quicker speed. At least I by there being sort of interconnected series of portables in the upside down picture this second to last episode of Season Four. Here's hopper he is at his wits end and the upside down. He's been chased everywhere by these pursuing democ organs is even worse than Arnie the terminator then suddenly a voice pops in his head on your left and your comes eleven here comes Mike here choice they're coming in. They're getting ready a baby Hawley giant hi aunt like aunt man. I think this is the crossover that we're waiting to happen. Is Your question sincerely. I think that it would be nice physical representation of something that is been very thematic. We keep hearing Jonathan Nancy talk about this idea the of shared trauma that connects back to you know the blood oath and they weren't admiring each other scars before Jonathan ended up leaving at the end of the third season and I do feel like you know they're in separate locations. They are still inevitably connected by the literal stranger stranger things that they witnessed here no matter what distance they take. It's going to be the stuff that they've undergone. That's going to unite them emotionally so much that they're always connected back to Hawkins now. I do wonder if it ends up being that maybe if there's a weakening reckoning infrastructure going on between in the in the portals that may be more do pop up around the room. I mean that's going to be our next big. Goal of the Party is to try to you know we closed off the gate here. We'd close out the gate here now to close the gates out everywhere because because fault lines are crumbling and now the upside down it's starting to bleed into our modern world and if that's the case I could see maybe some fast travel via upside down becoming an option all right so you made a marvel joke at the start of this and I know we said we had to back to back Catherine Valentine's Valentine's but let's break it up really quickly with a Daddy Taryn which I didn't know what the thing Taryn somebody weird things happening in your orbit and I love it that you have a Daddy Taryn so daddy Taryn is somebody who tweeted at us and Daddy Taryn who does have a terrance Armstrong Avatar so this is about Daddy Taryn Armstrong which I just think it's tremendous there are no Daddy Wigley accounts and I'm fine with that. I thank you just pull it out into verse nuts all right. There's a father you are speaking with daddy bloom. Daddy Taryn had written in and said with the News of David Harbour starring in black widow for marvel. Do you think that hopper is is done. Zo a couple of things to note on this Mike so we're recording this. This is dropping after comic con where Marvel Studios had their outrageously Ridiculous Hall H. Presentation were they outline outlined phase four of the marvel cinematic universe in a way. That's not just feature films anymore. It's also these these Prestige Disney plus like event TV series projects that they're launching Falcon and the winter soldier. There's a low key show theirs Juan Division which I love me so you know I'm going to be watching that but but we have David Harbour is going to be starring in the first of the announced movies of the next wave of marvel. He's going to be co starring in black widow as I believe he is playing a Russian character named Alexi. I may have that wrong but I am sure that that's the case you are correct so he is playing Alexi. Shows Catava who alias is the Red Guardian. I won't get into too much comic book rabbit hole stuff that should be saved for those who partake in DC universe essentially I think he's sort of trained to be Russians version of Captain America right. I believe at one point he's arranged to be wed to the eponymous black widow but yeah I mean it also pretends this theory to me. I know that black widow is supposed to be a prequel. I Dunno if it takes place in the eighties but I'm just saying if hopper ends up in Russia and he's trying to you know come up with an identity for himself so that the Russians don't find him in the government doesn't find him who's the first Russian he's going to think of Alexi see would it not be within hopper's character to take his name and assume a new identity. It's just tremendous. I just think it's just so great that David Harbour will be playing a Russian man named Alexi as as his next work. I'm also excited because it seems like I mean I haven't read up too much on Red Guardian but I'm assuming he's GonNa like Pratt it up right considering not to body shame Jim Hopper too much but I would say that is not necessarily a super soldier esque body so he's I've got the dead bodies thing going on which I think is a big piece of the hopper character. You know. He's got that he's talking about daddy hopper. You know I think is definitely a thing but I was there. He was at comic con. He was part the Hall H.. Presentation and one of the things that was notable about his look is that he's got like the man Bun thing going on right now and he also has enormous beard so so it's a rip off of that you could imagine that that is like hoppers aesthetic for strange things for like he is imprisoned. It would make sense that he'd be like like shaggy-haired hopper that he would have a little bit of like the man Bun thing going on and a long beard. He's got like this count of Monte. Cristo looked to him. I think would be would be really fun. The other piece of that though is black widows coming out in May twenty twenty it is it is filming currently stranger things for hasn't even even been announced as of this recording it feels like but all too assumed I would say considering has smashed records from I think it would be it would be genuinely shocking if there was not a fourth stranger things and hoppers alive like they've put too much into that so I think that the logistics of him filming black widow to me that does that does not make me even the slightest bit nervous about David Harbour being too busy to film a stranger things for and I also think that it'd be great if at least like a decent amount of season four if if they keep hopper away from us for a little while like maybe give us the hopper episode the way that they tried to give us that eleven episode once upon a time I feel like that could be really fun to catch up on where hoppers been and you spend much of the season without him so no the black widow stuff. It doesn't worry me at all. It makes me very excited for David Harbour as a human being who <music> seems like a really tremendous guy named dropping here I did interview him once and he was delightful was a light at comic con actually a couple years ago before he had shot hell boy Komo news a bounce back from that he's he's crawled out of the pits of hell. I would agree when it comes to his longevity. I believe that you know black. What is a bit of a red herring and I mean all these actors are doing other things? All the time Finn Wolfhard filmed filmed it I believe between what seasons two and three things he's he's going to be in the new ghostbusters movie like these people are in demand and they're going to have other projects and it's totally fine and no black widow for David Harbour does not make me nervous whatsoever for him coming back to stranger things. I think that we will have him for the duration of Aldridge. Now I really I'm really excited for hopefully man bun hopper dieting considering that he's now gone from like the Magnum P._i.. Stats but he'd things is like the Pinnacle of style dial two now just looking like a complete derelict only that he would I would say like hey hopper time travel like thirty years from now and this is the pinnacle style hundred percent all right. Let's go back to Katherine Valentine. Catherine had a funny one. It said I just wanted to get something off my chest. I think Erica eight all sixteen of those ice cream delights I too was disturbed at the quantity but it seemed like she just wanted them to give her options. I think that that's probably affair by dream. I believe a song once said what you dream will be or mirrors in your eyes or whatever the lyrics are right. I what you see will be so I I'd like to think that it was a never ending ice cream story but Katherine Katherine may be correct that it was just Erica getting them to lay all their cards out on the table as just like a show of power just a full power move of you guys. Show me the money in the form of ice cream so I know how much you need Erica you know. It'd be even better if she made them eat it. I don't want this anymore but you know what I want. You guys to watch the three of them have have to wolf down. Probably what five ice cream dishes each would be would have been a very interesting deleted scene for stranger things as well and yes big flex on the part of Erica huge flicks huge flex catherine keen wrote in and said. Do you think that will meet any other people with abilities like eleven and Kelly in season four and are the Russians experimenting with children also so season two introduced us to to Kelly who is the woman with the ability ability to like basically in Sept- your worst nightmares into existence or make you see things that aren't there so we know of at least two super powered individuals in the universe stranger things that episode did not go over great with most most people. Some people really like it. A lot of people really don't but you gotTA. You're like that's out there. In the stranger things can in right like they can't just ignore that forever you think that but then they ignored it for the entirety of season three and I agree you within that now with this larger quite little global plot that we're delving into presumably with season for that we would touch upon that but I really do wonder if her parting ways with Kelly and her outrageous eighties crew last season and really was assigned for you know the Duffers to Nikki and Paulo them to bury them and say say okay. We're you guys don't like them fine. Get rid of them. We don't need to bring them up anymore. Which makes me a little sad? I don't necessarily really need to see speaking of young justice to see eleven superleague of children time. I thought it was a it was a cool idea for her to connect with others. I mean that chapter was called the law sister and it was interesting to see her. Try to initially connect with Kelly tally over this once again shared trauma only to find out that she's utilizing it for a completely different reason that family is much less about blood and more so about the bonds that you make so maybe they felt like it was the medically mill to that point compounded with the fact act that it was not very well received I unfortunately I think there's a non zero chance that we are not touching that storyline ever again. I think it's interesting to think about like hopper in Russian captivity and like fines you know a young person who's being experimented on and then has like a man with daughter Sir with daughter figures. You know like I think like you could you could imagine him I kind of like grafting his feelings toward eleven onto like some young person your cell door open three inches exactly I feel like something like that feels within reason to me and could be fairly natural way to bring us back into the idea of kids in the universe of stranger things who've been experimented upon either directly by Hawkins lab or some of these other forces that are out there. Look we talked lightly about the possibility that a doctor Brenner is not only still alive life but could be in Russian tap cavity may maybe he's like working for the Russians and is helping them develop some super powered kids of their own and that could be a way to get like hopper and Brenner even in the same storyline. It could be something that we could see. What do you think the chances are that we get a cousin Oliver moment on strain your things which maybe we got that with Erica because I think one of the major themes of these kids is that we've seen them grow up to a teenage age were now there are no longer the little precocious Munchkins that we saw them in season one? Do we feel like stringer. Things needs to bring in new Q.. precocious kids to to bring back that section of the fandom. I don't think it's the worst worst idea on the planet stranger things the next generation I think next gen stranger things could be fine and I think like to get like a group of kids from Russia could be could be fun to like kind of like have have this different spin on what we have seen from the Russians thus spar on stranger things we're really Alexi was the only sympathetic one and maybe through hopper having to essentially Steve Harrington these kids from Russia to hockey aw mom is GonNa be a great story lie. I think that that'd be good so <hes> could be something. That's that's worth paying attention to. I would love that I mean I'm loving this more and more of hopper being in this Russian facility because I will say one of my sticking points and now I have only a few sticking points with season three the but there's some sizable ones I would say. I'm one of them. Is I really do feel like if the Russians are supposed to be this big bad the only way that got somewhat validated is in that post hose credit scene when we find out that they are raising demagogue and otherwise you and I pointed out throughout the season how they've sort of been portrayed as at least in Hawkins a little inept. Maybe not thinking things through the entire time they're very reminiscent of like Dr Dr Evil's batty specifically and I do understand that you know maybe this was more of a send up of those eighties movies with the big bad Russians where maybe the Americans are supposed to dominate but it's still I don't know it didn't have much bite to it but now that we do have a creature preacher who bites and then some. That's some really exciting things so I'm hopeful that now use that as for lack of a better term Russian reboot in season floor or maybe we get to know more shades of this Russian organization when we see who who possesses the these terror are filled aspects that you know is really going to keep us on the edge of our seats for season for all right Brennan Fitzpatrick had written in two questions that are linked and the first one will just do quickly brandon wanted us to power rank barb Super Bob and Alexi in terms of the lovable side characters. I give you the floor Mike Bloom. I know you hate the way that Bob went out and the way was depicted but much like joyce staring at his picture on the wall and watching cheers. I feel like he's number one for me. Maybe I'm the justice for Barb and the popularity of that has like dulled me Donald Her in my eyes. Maybe we've gotten time away from her. That makes her number three for me because I would say Alexi. Put Him at number two right now. Maybe it's recency bias. I think that he was just a very funny character. A very different character from what we see on a strange thing just over the top as it may be I may docking points because when he was not nearly an involved in this season as some unlike bob or plot wise as barb but until pretty late anyway I mean he was but he was in like what three episodes total road prominent ways but the others were involved. I think in in bigger are more consistent ways so I have to triple rank my triple rank these these lovable deaths right now. I guess I gotTa go Bob Alexi Barb unfortunately no offense to bar Hashtag justice for barb. No and I think for me Ah we may be more aligned than you would guess I think I'll put Alexi I just because he was such a source of joy for me in the back part of this season and like I said when he died. I think that they did the Bob. Thing really well this time like I think that it was really kind of paint by the numbers to a certain degree but I think it was it was it was done in a more artful way and in a way that I enjoyed quite a bit more so I'll take Alexi and his his shit strawberries slurpee in the number one spot and then I do think put Bob at number two because how can you how can you be mad at Sean asked in on stranger things. I just didn't like the way that he went out. I didn't like the way that they wrote him out. I thought that they really cheap and him. In the end up until then he was great he asked in China Asan's always great and it's no no disrespect to barb these three three characters and three great performances but I think barb what she did was she was more to me an idea than a character where she she represented the deadliness of stranger things really early on and then I think that like when she blew up until like justice for Barbara being an Internet reaction that then gets folded into the second season of stranger things. That's the stuff about the show that I tend not to like that much so she does get dinged a little bit because of that yeah I mean listen. This is a tough ranking. We like all threes. Characters were literally killing our darlings here that have already been killed all right so the second part of Fizi Brandon's question Russian was can we dreamcast or come up with a dream character brainstorm for who will be season four's lovable new side character is it the Russian kids that we've already dreamed up that are like essentially the Russian lost boys not the Vampires Peter Pans buddies like is there someone who's like Peter That is you hopper that issue pio tear that is his name is Peter Pan. Yes yes yes. I think that'd be good but who should he be played by. He's got to be played by like I don't know he's played by Timothy Shallow. May He's busy now. That guy has a movie career. He's he's too. He's too big time for like two episodes of it could be super lovable and then get gunned down by a bunch of Russian upper. Oh my God too big too big too big Abo- that was just like okay. Let's do let's do a crossover with big. We're actually Russian man who wakes up in a boy's body or the ad I like that I think that's good. We got like a little bit of like a thirty going on thirteen season for stream flood. If he'd that's hopper what if the experimenting they do on hoppers that he wakes up with a little boy's body because let's face it bad and that gets you out of the problem of David harbors getting too big for Stranger Things History Kassim and they can say look we said David Harper wouldn't be in stranger things more. We weren't lying because let's let's face it and this is one of my other sticking point in looking back on the season hopper hopper acting like a kid for a good majority of the season and I think the way that they send him off particularly how we act in those final couple episodes really good but I think we also also lucked out in stopping in between episodes because I can imagine binging these how repetitive the Joyce Hopper Sniping back and forth would get to the point where we'd all be Murray yelling at them to shut the hell up. Yeah I see that I don't know I'm trying to think of who are some good kid actors out there right now but most of them are on strange could be Jacob Tremblay Jacob Tremblay Jacob Tremblay on stranger things about about a young Sheldon Ziggy if he's not too big Armitage could be good yeah. I think I think Armitage yes. I actually think that's that's dream casting right there because then I know in us in big little lies season when he had his head shaved saved like an eleven right Oh yeah back to that absolutely absolutely that would be really good or we could get josh and Max Right Celeste twin sons they could come in and they could be like two little bruisers too little to really scary fighter characters. I could be good yeah. I think that we've got a good casting couch right now of children to use as the the youth defied version of hopper for season four so I guess is this GonNa be our lovable character then even though it's already a form of character we now yeah I think so and well yeah I mean they haven't they haven't like really they haven't like broken our hearts with a kid character okay so here's what's going to be so we have P._O.. Japan right but yes we're GONNA have his friend is going to be Rouphael or a Russkoe. If God trail blazing hot headed kid who ends up diving in front of bullets to save of Mike Bruce ski sudden his hair so it works out. Oh my God that's great all right back to daddy tear and back to you daddy Taryn wrote in and said nineteen eighty six was a big year in pop culture. What do you think will be referenced in season four from one thousand nine hundred eighty six? There's aliens aliens has already been referenced so unless you go to the movies again in aliens is there but they've outright said aliens it has been was a touchstone for season to some of the others that Daddy Taryn writes in Chernobyl. I suppose not the show but the event that could be interesting though I have seen a theory online that that like maybe maybe the work that the Russians were doing with the gate could have caused an eruption around Chernobyl which would be a very dark term for sure thing what considering the very lighthearted tone that the show took doc in its third season. I think they're really experimenting with ways to take the Tel and of their show so maybe they take a complete swing in the other direction for season for net could be interesting a Chernobyl parallel in stranger things for just a cherry pick some of the other ones that daddy atty terron reference top gun. Did you watch the top gun to trailer Mike. I have not as of yet because I just want to keep the crystalline image of Val kilmer and Tom Cruise playing volleyball in my head for the trees while the trailer the new show spoiler. It looks like there's going to be some sort of beach sports involved in top gun maverick so maybe we get a volleyball seen in strange things for Ferris Bueller. What are the odds that will buyers ditches school by making his is hands clammy and cold? He likes it cold to know what's going to happen. Is I guess I could see like Lucas being affairs biller type totally a cameron and he's GonNa Take Jonathan's car and it falls out the window. Yeah could be good stand by me this show keepers that could be the Kiefer Sutherland though yeah keeper and do I feel like I wasn't a huge inspiration for season. One in particular was later sure kids wandering around daddy it also mentions short-circuit out some fisher Stevens Casto. nope not not if he's playing short-circuit character. I know that would be then shit in ninety five would be great well. That's an interesting thing because I know that we're going to maybe get into some other pop culture connections that stranger things can make it. I was actually thinking along the lines of like a weird science or a short circuit thing where you know I had said in our bold predictions preseason about there being some sort of artificial intelligence element. We have have yet to see that yet. I feel like that was such a big part of eighty science culture in particular that I feel like we have yet to see something where like the kids create something and then try to figure out how to assimilate into the real world. I guess we got that with eleven but now that she sort of is doing well L. on her. Oh and I feel like we're we're overdue for some you know exploration of that. Yeah I think Dustin creating a robot POW would be awesome. I I mean listen. He's apparently the big adventure I maybe the forever clocks going to mature into some sort of self thinking robot all right well speaking of Dustin speaking of pop culture references. We've gone long enough without getting into it. The never ending story of it all and we had mixed mixed feelings from the from the crowd on the never ending story. This was from Raider man who said that never ending story seen was the happiest I've ever been watching any movie or T._v.. Show wow yeah big words big words from Raterman so that's Raider mance take Chris Brown again wrote in and said watching that scene. I thought you guys were either. GonNa love it or it's the worst thing that's ever happened to you on TV or you would bitterly disagree with each other. Mike I think ultimately we agreed that we had a great time. Yes the never ending story. Yes and I think that what we're getting into I think is going to show a wide swath of opinions which I think makes sense just given wear the moment fell and how over the top it was. I think it really depends on like the mood would you were in when you watched it and how it susceptible you are to musical numbers. You and I both come from a theater background where it's literally like normal fair for someone to burst out into song if you're not used to that or if you don't like that I could very well understand how you take some the opinions that were about to get into okay well. Here's the one and this is my favorite feedback that we got for the entire season and it was a comment on pusher recaps dot com for our season finale podcast. This is from replay bb. Seven one eight who writes in H- you guys are such losers which I laughed so hard at the second I read that you guys are such losers. The never ending story moment it was the worst part of the finale of this whole series. It totally took down the tension from one hundred down to zero. It's an embarrassment season. Three didn't take itself seriously which was a complete one eighty tonal shift from MM season one season three is a juvenile show it had high highs but the low low was just a total joke all right so to address the first part yes they are. I think we've found the Eric Burner earner account and the COP. I'm surprised to start with. Isn't it time for you. Guys to die should've been maybe more appropriate. Losers spills harsh Mike. I think it would be more fitting to call us googlers in the stranger things landscape the name calling aside. I appreciate we're replay BB. Seven eighteen is coming from in terms the feelings towards the never ending story bringing down the tension but I think that's only if you believe that stranger things is actually going to like irrevocably mess up its universe ever like the most it's going to do is 'cause people to move and that's going to be a big status. Quo Oh shift and it's GonNa make you think hopper is dead but he's not really dead. Maybe when we get to the final season or the penultimate season finale right wake of season four is the second to last. Maybe some real lasting damage could be done there. I've I've come to accept that. This is not an especially dangerous show and it's really only like smaller side characters that are in imminent danger at any given time and I would love to be proven wrong eventually but through three seasons this is just not an especially dangerous show so for me. I don't think that the tension is taken down from one hundred zero because I think in that moment it's it's not a specially deeply tense for me because I feel like things are mostly going to work out with at least some white surface possibilities of of damage done to our cast furious and I will also say the a comment season three didn't take itself seriously which was a complete tonal one eighty shift from season one sure may but that began in season to season two is where stranger things slides from season one to where we are in season three and I think that sees season three's just a much more effective and enjoyable version of the tone that they got into in season two. That's a very interesting point because I know there's been a lot of remarks across the Internet of how much more comedic see in three as we even talked about in our podcast and I think that it's safe to say comedy is much more subjective than horror whereas like I think it's much harder to say that scared me well. That didn't scare me as opposed to that's funny. I don't think that's funny and I think that's a problem. People had season three is that they felt like too. Many bad jokes shoehorned in there. I personally really enjoyed it and maybe the show I want to say. It doesn't take itself seriously but I think knows what to do with its characters now. I feel like to your point season two as a way for them to say like okay okay. What do we do now? Let's try doing the same thing again and maybe lamp shading a bid and see what happens. I think season three shows a complete trust in the actors on behalf of the show to just have a good time and I know I talked about this on our podcast as them having a good time. I had a good time I actually going back to some comparisons here. I actually find it very comparable season three of stranger things to thor ragnarok especially you know not to say that thor and thor the dark world where these big sci fi horror pieces but I think they took themselves a bit more seriously whereas sees thor Ragnarok is really just a big old joke fest fun good time at the movies and people I've had problems with that about saying that they've shoehorned into many jokes. This feels you know too corny. It seemed like they'd swung too much in the other direction and I'm seeing similar comparisons here for what it's worth. I absolutely love them. Both so I'm coming from a place of really appreciating Estonians style though I can also acknowledge the fact that considering the access point from season one to where we are now it feels very different totally but much like children grow into teenagers and maybe changed their tastes and styles. This is sort of the way strange things has matured as well so it's pertinent all right see who is a prolific commenter on po show recaps dot Com wrote with a take about season three then I think at least partly aligns with where replay B._B._C. Eighteen is coming from this is from Chen Trent and we can just this. It's not really a question. Transi says I have a general opinion about this show over three seasons and it may be unpopular during the first season I felt the main cast of kids were over acting to the point of history onyx at time during the second season. I felt there were miscues like the road trip eleven went on when she found her sympathetic yet brutal fellow test subjects and the entire sequence with Murray the conspiracy guy who encouraged a couple of teen strangers to drink vodka and have sex in his house sound Joshua's partner account in the third season I again found overacting to be a problem this time in the scenes with hopper and Joyce found the setups or material during the exchanges not really worth all of that shouting in anger the the scene with Mrs Wheeler and Billy were mystifying. They let nowhere but to the country of slightly creepy and puzzling would have been more fun if purely played for laughs to be clear. I like the source material the eighties background the sci-fi Aspect Act and the kids being the heroic protagonists are all something I would normally enjoy but overall. I felt that stranger. Things didn't really drop on eighties references other than talk about de every few episodes. They did a lot of things right like the third season music one movie in particular in the mall but I still think that the duffer brothers missed a wealth of material from that era that's from Trent see with with some hot takes about the state of strange things so here's thing I mean obviously obviously with a long enough and thank you so much to transfer also like keeping us up on his thoughts trans- also a great comment on the rob has a podcast main reality stuff as well and it's been great to hear his thoughts over the season as well. I mean I mentioned this before. In the PODCAST CAST I do agree with him partially about the Joyce and hopper stuff I do understand them trying to actually build out the tension a bit more without Joyce you know being with Bob this time around but when you see it for like the fourth or fifth time it does become a bit repetitive. It does give you a bit of attention headache just from the amount of time they're they're yelling at each other and being angry with one another so I can see from a writing perspective how you know ironically enough. I think the adults acted the most childish the entire season and maybe that was intentional. I see where he's coming from. Not Acknowledging the source material enough but at the same time I don't want this to be a family guy of member this eighty s stuff you know like I enjoy the fact that it really leans on these eighties pieces and giving some modern flair to you and I praised the Robin Steve Seen in the bathroom for doing just that for taking these eight strokes and bringing them into a third dimension into a twenty-first-century twenty-first-century perspective that is more encapsulating and is more for lack of a better term woke and it's really cool to watch that not just feel like it's a relic of the past that it's a relic of the past commented on the past that looks into the future so I don't know if we necessarily need like a hey they walk by a top gun cut out you know hey they're quoting fletch. I feel like more pastiches less direct references. I'm personally fine with me because I'm someone who looks in the mirror and make so many pop culture references that I don't feel like I need to watch that all the time in the things that I consume. I think the differs have satiated in my pop culture references personally but I could also see somebody who's hungry for some more considering. How maybe these felt you know I felt a little more underlying we talked about the new coq ad for example but if you're looking for more outright references to AIDS pieces of pop culture there there could be more? They're always could be more all right well. Let's let's start to to get out of the feedback section by going on a little bit of a journey Mike Bloom and this is a journey that I'd like to refer to as the journey of S- purgatory and ended up N._C._I._S. Three Yeah He's in Struggle Tori Strigoi sports for S- purgatory initially making me shout Strigoi every time I looked at the post show recaps comments who came at US hot hot at the top of our stranger things podcasting here with at one point say Jesus. Do you guys even like the show I think ultimately maybe coming around to the fact that we also came around a stranger things over the course of the season but spur Katori prolific to use the word again commentator on our kosher recaps page as we were going through stranger things we we appreciate the interactivity at very very much. Even even when we disagree we always we can always agree to disagree and I appreciate it some thought so a lot of thoughts along the way it's it's quite quite a commentary. If you haven't been going into the post show recaps dot com pages you could see for comments here so we'll just go through some of the highways from purgatory along the way circulatory says one of my primary criticisms of the first two seasons was that they almost never gave the young characters time to actually they beat children. They were all stuck in crisis mode the entire time so we got very little chance to actually see who they are as people especially Mike I'm glad they actually remedied that this season and I think that S- purgatory was saying this and then went on to I'd say so of course you guys didn't like that which I think early on maybe we were a little harsh the BURP and fart humor what's purgatory was was referencing the episode to Whole Story Line title maximum eleven going to the mall and the boy the mall which I know I wasn't a big fan of I think in retrospect I do appreciate more. Anything's purgatory actually does make some interesting points about I think a highlight of season two honestly was the way that it ended at the snowball which probably was the most kids being being kids moment that they've had since season one of like yeah. They're encountering all this other worldly supper at the end of the day. They're still teenagers trying to deal with their emotions so I think I've gained some newfound appreciation for that mole montage. I will say it still still you know feels a bit oddly contrast in tone some of the other stuff that was happening but <hes> yeah I at least I still cannot get on the side of the Bourbon fart scene that just that maybe that's a bridge too far for me but I have come around on the makeover scene. Okay so that's so that's one S- purgatory also says Josh you gotTa Relax Bro. Ain't nobody killing off no kids. You're still stuck in West rose. You've got to come back to nine hundred eighty s America. It's okay game of thrones over. It can't hurt you anymore S- purgatory. You're saying this as I am about to embark on some brand new game of thrones coverage for the day job this. I don't even WanNa talk about this with me. This is never gonNA leave. His blood allied of Western rose embedded in his leg and much Jonathan tried to take it out he improperly handled Josh's lakes and now he's always going to be infected. Yes I think so as well but he went on to say that's changed. The things is not the kind of show that spitefully subverts tropes for the sake of subversion and kills off main characters for shock value stranger. Things doesn't hate tropes at loves them. It tenderly makes loved tropes. It wants to meet them out at the Motel six by the highway they killed barb and I think that that's what I mean. They killed barb. There's a moment earlier in the existence of stranger things where they had the steal to kill barb and I just WanNa see them half the steel to do something like that again you could. I'd say they presented as doing with hopper though I think due to what they set up post bar pre hopper death I think now as has made the Internet really say you didn't really do that. Plot armor firmly around this guy like three feet deep but I hear what you're saying. I also hear that like it's probably unreasonable to expect that they're going to kill Finn Wolfhard off. That's probably never going to happen and that's fine enough in Wolford. I don't want to die but I also like if you know if we're looking at like Harry Potter as a parallel and obviously that is a different era both in terms of when that takes place and when it was published but that was that was like a story that gets progressively darker and deadlier for even the students in that Universe Bersin. I wouldn't mind seeing some of that on stranger things but I think I gotta keep my expectations in check because I don't think that this is this show purgatory also reds Josh your unending hatred for Nancy and Jonathan and absolute refusal to give their story. Why in the time of day is alternatively additive? We frustrating and Hilarious my pleasure to amuse you yeah. I think that's been a really fun runner throughout and now that they are you know star crossed lovers separated geographically and maybe they can you know hop on cerebral when Mike and Eleven dinner done to to get some some talking as well. I don't know if that's going to absence going to make the heart grow fonder it will make them grow farther apart. I'm not entirely sure I'm sure in your case. Josh you hope it's the latter absolutely I do S- purgatory had a a long on defense of the Caron Wheeler Story Line. This is an excerpt from that defense. If you're paying attention Karen actually does have an arc over the course of the show. It's subtle but it's still there. There's a threat especially in season two of her being unhappy happy in her marriage to Ted who has shown to be both borish and boring by the end of season two. She's considering having an affair by season three. She's ready to do it but then she sees her husband and young daughter asleep on the recliner and backs out she even says as much to billy. She loves her family me too much to do anything to hurt them. She's chosen her family fair enough yeah I would. I would agree. I think that especially if you chart the two points that we really see Karen in a major perspective which is her talking to billy the fake out that freaked me out where she got her head bashed into a nice side shelf when she's talking to Nancy about essentially saying like yeah listen. There's a lot of shitty men out there who try to keep us down but you are someone who is very talented who can work your way out of any hole you dig yourself self into. I think that it is an interesting journey. If you connect enough dots right that she comes to this realization of like I was nearly ready to throw my life away because of this shitty guy who was able to control my feelings thought you can take control of me and so I think she could be speaking from a level of independence there and so maybe from that perspective it is a little less out of nowhere after school special as we attributed to an episode for but if that's the case I really just wish we had more connective tissue there. You know especially especially in a in a Netflix setting there are no run time limits. I maybe just because again carbonneau got more stuff. Did you this season but I would want even more and maybe there will be some more in season four but it just stinks that if there was an arc a subtle the arcus purgatory is alluding to they really cherry pick certain points of the ARC as opposed to charting an entire line like you get from any of the other main characters purgatory is also taking me to task over yet another thing a secretary says Josh being mad at a season of stranger things involving a dimensional gate to the upside down. It's like being mad at a back to the future movie involving time travel or an alien movie for involving you know aliens. It's really another Zena more for doing that story line again. What were you actually expecting from this show? I just imagined purgatory screams at his phone or her phone. It's like the mind go monster screamed at the walkie talkie in the season finale one of my highlights yeah and just like has like angry wigley voice when when hearing hearing my stupid voice fair enough okay look. I don't have anything to say in response to that all right another spirit Tori. I really think that new coq style inserts are unfortunately the future of advertising this is in response of course to the Lucassie and where Oh he is hyping up nuke spur Katori continues the whole point of that scene is that there is no skip button with the advent and growth of AD blocking technology. The slow death of television and with most streaming services is offering ad free versions. It's getting to the point where the only type of ads people even see our ads that are woven into the content being consumed. Mike Bloom dark vision of the future from purgatory as dark is a nice refreshing can of coke now available. I mean it does make sense. I mean I mean Netflix unlike platform. Kulu doesn't do commercials even though I think that is something that has been teased a bit from various sources over the years. There's so I mean you have to get advertising in some way so I could imagine them doing it here. I will say I've I've come around a smidge on the new coaxing because from what I've been reading up on amongst the community unfortunately I think this is sort of due to our ages and not really being children of the eighties from what I kept reading as much as we thought this new coq scene was so blatant and felt like it was in a commercial people who grew up in the eighty said this would be a legitimate conversation arguments they would have amongst their closest confidants as the the benefits versus drawbacks mostly drawbacks of new coke so I guess I'll put out a mayor culpa here in that. I had no idea yeah that people talked at such a market market base terms but I suppose those were the arguments going on around one thousand nine hundred five so I guess this ended up being strangely enough one of the more slice slice of life scenes in the third season S- purgatory Tori finally sets sets the sites against you. Mike Bloom Spur Katori says Mike Bloom. How dare you in this moment of joy remind me that glee was a thing that happened wind that I willingly subjected myself for several years? This was supposed to be a happy face. Look if I don't remember you bringing up Glee to be on I brought up the fact that Glee filmed one half of their season in two separate locations with two separate sets of character. Yes yes okay. I have to live with the memories of those seasons of Glee. So do you all out there okay. This is our shared trauma. We have to remember when the characters adopted puppet versions AH themselves to perform. What does the Fox say okay? We're all live with that memory then happen. It happened it happened. Josh was real. It was real. Unfortunately it really makes makes me feel like we went through our own portal to some sort of uncanny valley which workloads seemed to live in for most of its existence on television but I I'm not sorry clear was ridiculous piece of television and I apologize if I brought up some bad memories but we're all going to get through it together. We're all remembering and bring glee as just a tremendous pile of garbage for the vast majority of its ladder Iran and do you know what that unifies us a bit so we can unify over that we can unify over anything. Okay Spirit Torrey also said. How do you think a stranger things is GONNA split everybody up next season? The show has always split its characters into little quote. Unquote parties usually based on age but it seems like that is no longer possible as of season for what's your solution all right Mike So. How are we gonNA divide up the cast for season for that seems at the very least like it's going to be scattered to the nine wins at least three wins? Let's say three eleven weds hopper wherever hoppers at the <unk> buyers plus eleven where they're at and then it's everybody else so thing like two of those are easy right. Yeah I mean I the buyers plus eleven or certainly going to be in the same region drivers. Wherever hoppers at I I also really liked this idea because I think that maybe we were getting a bit old? Punt unintended with okay. The kids are off doing their thing. The teenagers are off doing their thing and the adults are doing their thing and then they're gonNA come together. You know now this finally allows US opportunities for characters to mix and mingle which are in my opinion always always the strongest part of the seasons are when these characters inevitably come together like I would love to see how eleven will are going to get along for instance. We talked about this. I think in our finale podcasts about how these to have their own form of shared trauma you know they both have their own connection due to the upside down. They both traumatic torturous childhoods. It'd be interesting to see them. Come together considering that they haven't really interacted at all. We pointed out the Joyce eleven surrogate mother daughter relationship. I would love to see some Nancy and Mike stuff concern. We haven't seen that in quite a long time so I think this really allows us the opportunity to have people really explore new relationships I could see maybe Stephen Nancy finally sort of acknowledging things again. Maybe not in a you know let's rekindle their relationship type away but I mean considering they never really saw each other in season three. I feel like it's sort of unspoken considering that. Steve was in love with her so I think that even within these geographical groupings are going to be myriad pairing hiring is that are unexpected and unconventional in compared to what we usually do which is sort of segregating people by age to close out the journey of purgatory. I WANNA take it to a comment that S- purgatory left on the episode six recap whereas purgatory said nothing really bad this one. I just wanted to say thanks to you guys that I appreciate your hard work and I enjoy the sound of your voices. I realized that I and a lot of people usually only chime in when we've got something Spicy A._c.. To say and that shouldn't be true so well done you to even if I disagree with some of your takes I'm grateful to you for providing another opportunity to discuss a show that I love S- purgatory thank you yeah thank you you for that. This was a real Steve Harrington like our Steve Harrington. The Stranger things post show recaps audience for sure legitimately. I do appreciate any comment on the hair we don't we just don't know and I'm so glad that someone said they liked the sound of our voice. I think that's one for about a million in terms of comments about voices so yes I do sincerely appreciate it and I sincerely appreciate everybody for commenting and and listening all season long. I mean a little inside baseball here. I believe at one point we were like the number one stranger things podcasts on apple podcasts which is ridiculous and so crazy to think about but I mean like you said Josh I think this is a show that the enjoyment is boosted of it in that you have people to talk about it with and to not only gets talk about it with you got to talk about it with people online and respond to their own responses here has just been so much fun and I cannot wait eight to seaworld trainer. Things takes US quite literally where it takes us for season four and what other projects may take us to do as well one last little bit of feedback. This is from Adam Goldman who chimed in on twitter just the other day with a great question Mike and it was which T._v. show. Would you want to see stranger things have across over with so I had a few sorry I did go into movies as well. I made a list here so I think as much as as you disliked Nancy the journalist I think a Murphy Brown like Ark for Nancy could be very interesting. Even though that sort of bombed nowadays the rebound reboot I think that with the absence of hopper we could get a robo cop up mash up. Maybe the government's sorry Hawkins Robo Hop Bro. Oh my goodness we need hopper. He goes from a kid back into an adult and then into a robot for season five. I was thinking about that definitely. It's like our short-circuit as well. I was thinking of some other pieces of pop culture scanners which if we're going back to the special children idea that's about what like a bunch of like grown-up essential mind flares that blows up people's heads yeah. I actually haven't he'd scanners so I don't know we could have the karate kid I mean I know we barely have we did have Max fawning over Ralph Macho beforehand so it might be a little tough to sort of wiggle around that if you have him or Zappa make an appearance here but I feel like that could be a reference like a Cobra Kai Crossover exactly but Josh I have two words for you okay demo dancing dancing eleven and a demagogue organic Oda with summer camp and they're they're the you know the most unlikely pairings but dammit that demagoguing is not going to keep eleven in a corner and it's GonNa make her you know sparkle in front of her disapproving fathers is oh in my God do not put the Democ Oregon in a corner it will you alive and the wolf whatever that song is. Could you imagine like a win win. Hungry like beloff is a different thing. Could you imagine Gorgan Crawling along the floor like Patrick swayze during that one montage he's like the wind yeah I can't actually and it's weird and I didn't expect that to be in my head by the end of this feedback feedback section but somehow I feel like that's not the strangest thing that's going to happen in today's stranger things pop yet. I don't think so I think we're just warmed up at this point are Mike well that is going to do it for the feedback section here on the stranger things feedback podcast podcast but as promised there's more business to attend to and is it is weird. This is weird stuff that we're about to do. Survivor Hawkins is about to begin my gloom. We're about to light up those those torches and those Christmas lights to get into a survivor season with only stranger things characters all right we will talk about exactly what that means in a second but first before we embark on survivor Hawkins once again. We want to give a big thanks to our sponsor for this episode D._C.. Universe the ultimate D._C.. Membership for DC fans join at D._C.. UNIVERSE DOT COM to dive into young justice outsiders the return of the fan favorite animated series once once you catch up on part one which is streaming new episodes of part to every week in July and August you can watch D._C.'s most iconic young superheroes and other brand new characters discovering their unique Meta powers was in special abilities while they face the new threat of Meta trafficking an intergalactic arms race for control of these super powered youths in joy young justice outsiders as well as other DC original no serious like Titans and Doom Patrol over twenty thousand comics and tons of animated films and Classic D._C. Movies on the Ultimate D._C.. Platform available on your favorite devices. You can sign up now at D._C.. Universe dot com slash join Mike Bloom Survivor Hawkins all my goodness all right so this is this is ridiculous. People people who come to push a recaps by way of rob has a podcast have an an idea of what we may be about to get into here people who don't know what any of that means. You don't know what rob has a podcast is who have just found the stranger things podcast. Just listen to post show recaps. We're going to have to do some set here because what we're about to get into is this can be very very weird so mike two questions for you. What is survivor and what is a brand steel so apologies sounds like we're speaking Russian with all these various alien terms some of you out there so survivor is a reality show? Yes that show is still on the answer your first question out there vo so troves. I'm referring of all the royal you yes the votes Otros but yeah so it's a reality show in which contestants vote each other off the island eliminating them from the ability to win one million dollars at the end only one we'll be standing as the sole survivor. It's a show that is near and dear to both mine and Josh's hearts as we both sort of made a nice little nest for ourselves covering survivor in various capacities both on rob has a podcast and in various outlets. We are both survivor press members so survivor is baked in our blood at this point and one the thing we've discovered in the survivor Internet over the past couple of years is a website called brand steel dot com but your life is an algorithm to simulate a season of survivor so every challenge every lions every vote out is simulated purely by brain steel dot com what Josh and I have been a part for the past couple of years our podcast that run through simulated seasons of survivor Josh and I just sort of do commentary over it as it goes along with all of the twists and turns and so we're going to do the same thing here. Today we have eighteen characters from the stranger things universe who are going to be placed inside Hawkins Indiana to vote each other out in the hopes of becoming the sole survivor which Josh they were not gonNA kill kid no okay but one is going to win at the end of the day one is GonNa win at the end of the day one winner seventeen losers and some of these loser's may not necessarily be out of it on their first loss survivor fans. Please make sure don't don't don't rate with the podcast right well so this is so mike and I were talking before we got into the creation a our survivor simulation survivor Hawkins for stranger things survivor edition and in the first season of stranger things it all hinges on the fact that a boy goes missing and is presumed into dead but alas he is alive and in fact is trapped in another universe entirely and comes back and doesn't quite save the day but he comes back and he's great. He's very important in future. This is not unlike Mike assertain just finished season of the U._S.. Edition of survivor season thirty eight edge of extinction where the premise for survivor on that particular season season is traditionally when you vote somebody out of the game they are gone for good but in survivor edge of extinction what actually happened was he would vote somebody out and unbeknownst to everybody else. In the game game you were actually sending them to the edge of extinction a desolate remote island where they could hang out for a few weeks and eventually win a chance to get back into the game to get back into the hunt for the million in dollars and then that reset people continued getting sent to the edge of extinction and spoil survivor edge of extinction. The person who came back at the second shot AH returning to the game went on to win the whole thing shout out to Chris Underwood and such a thing as upside down would curse upside down with so such a thing may happen here and survivor Hawkins because unbeknownst to the eighteen eighteen players competing in survivor Hawkins. Mike there is an upside down that people are being sent to people who are being voted out and sent to the upside down or they will have to to hide from all sorts sorts of creepy crawlers in the upside down and just hang in there for the shot of maybe coming back to Hawkins and maybe winning the million dollars so edge of extinction rules are in play for this brant steal and to be honest. I think using fictional characters might be the only way some survivor fans would digest the concept of an edge of extinct jess so I hope we have made the taste of this twist sweeter in some fans mouths. There's a very good chance that someone who was voted. Voted off in the first few rounds comes back to win the game in this case but in this case it's coming out of a very desolate deadly environment dimension so in this case I think they truly deserve the win if they're able to overcome those odds and. Claw their way out of this the slimy walls that being said also those in the upside down might have the ability to influence those that are still in Hawkin yesterday. Maybe send messages to the Rue Christmas like that's right. That's right every every tribe Campo. The tribe camps are decorated in Christmas lights that occasionally will probably go off and feel like Oh who is sending me the signal so they're getting. They're gonNA get Christmas tree male. Yes Chris Cheema is on the way so I think we talked about maybe a tried and true barebones season of survivor but I think the more we spoke about it. The more edge of extinction of the upside down really applied here. We should also mention as the before we get into our casts here that the host is none other than name mind flayed mayor class which is gonNA which is just I think combines you know the the swamp good looks of Jeff probst with the ability to manipulate people's minds or at least you know eviscerate isolate them like the power of probes on the show yes possessed by some sort of creature from the upside down unleashing these horrors upon the people of Hawkins so that's the premise mike bloom is recording according the action on brand steel. We haven't figured out exactly how we will get that video up at the video will be up when it is up on post. Show recaps DOT COM so you can keep checking there and I am sure that Mike and I we will tweet out the link once the video is ready. If you want to follow along with that Mike is on twitter at a Mike Bloom type. I am at round our we'll have to post show recaps account at Po. Show recaps also tweeted out as well at the very least you will be able to listen along to what is going going on here in survivor Hawkins Alright so mike with all of that said let's get into it and I think we should start off by running down the two tribes we have two tribes the <music> owns tribe and the Brenner tribe so named after the men most famously associated with Hawkins lab groups right. We wanted to pit these two tribes against each other so let's get the the best pinnacles of good and bad with associations with Hawkins slapped a start things David versus Goliath that we're setting up here absolutely and I will also mention that you know the tribes are pretty much named after characters who unfortunately did not make the cast you know <unk> serious things does have a sprawling ensemble of people they keep building to each and every season unfortunately some could not make the cut so I do apologize if your favorite character was not able to show up here in the flesh hopefully they will in another form warm over the course of the season but let's run through our cast here. Let's start with the Owens tribe wearing yellow because I'm very excited for this. First Person Barb is justice for barb. Barb is back from the dead. She has tasted the upside down before so if she gets sent back there. Does she have an edge on everybody else is she. Just destined to become the ream daily of Survivor Hawkins. We shall see but Justice for barb indeed spoiler that there will be no Bob Newbie there will be no Alexi so barbed may have been bottom ranked in our Bob Alexi Barb rankings but but she's the she's the return out of the three the three I mean the people demanded it so here's Barb Bob Alright so next up we have billy who comes under an interesting point. I also mentioned that I think we're sort of undoing the canonical debts. Maybe some of these characters there existed in this weird sort of like purgatory all-state with our neither alive nor dead nor I try not to for the fun sake of the randomness of the brain steal not have their relationships influenced too much the way that they interact as well because during that billy is someone who at this point doesn't know if he's a hero or a villain so we'll see how a morally conflicted billy billy does of course you gotTa have eleven or Synod Stranger things cast. I don't know how much power is going to influence her. Finding hidden immunity eggos right. We'll tell I do wonder if eleven is entering survivor Hawkins faking being an injury Tyson in blood burs water style or since I oh no. I don't have my powers anymore. I hope that I'm still going to be helpful to the try but it's just it's a little tough for me but secretly she still has it. She's still she's. She's like leaning on the injury a little too hard all right next up we have Joyce Byers gave me a little sad that you can't get a phone call home hopefully when she gets a sprint phone during the options you'll have the opportunity to do so but I would say she is one of the adult anchors of the Owens tribe. We'll see much like in survivor sometimes discriminatory factor. We'll see if that's the case with Joyce or if she can hang. We have a lucas going on here a meal. Maybe he's on the David tribe. He always has his slingshot on. Hey that's right. That's a good point yeah Lucas's he's ready and equipped to take on goliaths the glides of the Brenner tribe to mix our seasons so I'm looking forward to seeing what Lucas has got here. We've got Murray Bowman who is <music> who is already. He's dressed to impress with Jean Cutoffs on the beach e. He's already. He didn't have to alter his clothing out there on the island to fit in he already know exactly what to look like no oh Christa hastie with a sewing kit make a skirt for him and Murray. I mean if I make a bold prediction for Murray. I think he's going to be our textbook over thinker here. He's a conspiracy nuts. You can only imagine how paranoid he's going to be from day one. You know what that can lead to some of the best s gameplay and some of the worst game play so we'll see if Murray is a Boston rob or a Zane night and survivor Hawkin Okay Nancy Wheeler on the Owens tribe and as an intrepid reporter you know she will always dig for the truth. shools sewell's you'll get it out despite all attempts to the contrary she will she will get to the bottom of every story so nancy drew. Come in for you but what might complicate things is something that I mentioned could be a possibility of coming up in season four are also on the Owens tribe Steve Harrington now look Steve has changed a lot. He's used to hanging with he went from you know hanging with that jerk Tommy H to hanging with a bunch of children as Robin will remark has that changed is behavioral attitude when it comes to figuring out strategy considering his involvement and larger Russian conspiracies. Maybe that makes them more adept will his ass get kicked several times during this season. I can imagine show yeah. I don't like his odds. At Sumo. See Sumo at sea pops up. I don't it will. I'm totally imagine him to be a boo from survivor Fiji and injure himself Multiple Times at Camp. That's why I imagine Steve. Harrington Steve the hair Harrington to have the best island hair since oddest push cow circus. I think Hawk is going to be looking great eight on Steve Speaking of hair. Yes yes helmet hair himself will buyers this year rounding out the Owens tribe number nine on the owns tribe and look. He's got a much like spider man Scott. The Peter Tangle will buyers has the ability to sense danger when the upside down is near. Is he going to catch onto what the upside down is for everybody else but is he going to be able to step out from beneath meet the shadow of his mother Joyce being on the same tribe. I wonder exactly how that's GONNA play out. Mike and we also have the fact you know. He is calling himself will the wise we know when survivor can give themselves nicknames ahead of them they ahead of time. They usually don't turn out entirely well. We know that you know he also has a personal connection with the mind flare. Does that mean he might be colluding with production right survivor Hawkins twitter have to say about this. We're not entirely sure all I know is he. You might like it cold but he'll enjoy the nights. I suppose hockey otherwise during the day he's going to be sweating out more than you know. The cabinet tried to burn the mindfloness going to be hot right. That's the Owens tribe in yellow in purple. We've we've got the Brenner tribe and we are kicking off the Brenner tribe with with the scooper trooper himself cerebral architect spectacular singer camp nowhere alum. It's Dustin Anderson kicking off the Brenner tribe very creative innovative young man. How is that going to translate to survivor will be the Tony Block O of the season building spy on aww yes? He's going to build like a spy contraption. Steve Push my buttons O._K.. Building spy Chak do I have to speak Llama too Stevia Russian Lama dust indefinitely we speak Llama so that's GonNa be exciting. We may have a Tony versus chaos cast situation brewing in the form of the next person Ooh so we have a radic Erica and the Brenner Tribes Erratic Erica Sinclair who's who's is not gonNa who doesn't suffer fools easily and how will she handle Dustin hijinks. They have history. How is she going to handle the lack of ice cream on license? If there's a reward she's going hand going on. I think when when mine flayed Klein announces one of the awards as an ice cream bar I think she is screaming at her tribe members to finish as quickly as possible. I think Erica an early front runner to take this whole thing right I mean we've seen her convincing convincing social strategy in effect already in stranger things we've seen her talk a winning case to the scooper troopers in the past she was able to snag free ice cream for life from scoops. Ahoy million dollars should be a piece of cake. I mean listen and Geneva arguing about how capitalism is great and so the million dollars should be in her pocket. Let's move on to the man Jim Hopper. It'll be very interesting to see honestly hip. hoppers temper is going to get him in trouble here. He is a figure who commands authority who is able to pull off some wildly maneuvers. We saw specifically in season three this stuff. He was able to get away with by claiming he was the chief of police but there is no police out on the island Josh. I don't know if hopper behold authority I mean we said dustbins the Tony but is jim going to be. The undercover COP is Jim is Jim Hopper going to be able to present himself as a construction worker knowing that police officers typically aren't look kindly upon in survivor either way. He's probably GONNA be more used to the conditions having been he's presumably in isolation right now in the in the actual strange things time line so he's been through tough stuff before. He's going to be a brute force in these challenges but does he have. He's got the brawn Mike with the brains to back it up. He's going to have a great day thirty nine stash absolutely if he makes it that far. Let's move on to Jonathan that `buyers unfortunately separated from girl like is at the end of season three Jonathan is a loner has been able to stay on his own for quite some time a mess troubling family situation and also social dynamics at the high school. The question is how long will he able to remain in isolation in the game. We'll Jonathan buyers be able to find allies or will he become ostracized quickly. I mean he he is. He's a loner nature and it takes a lot of work for Jonathan to open up to people it just so happens that the people that he has opened up to the most are on the other tribe his brother will his mother Joyce his girlfriend Nancy Nancy with former flame Steve Harrington. I feel like I Jonathan is is not quite wait on an island of his own yet but as a form form firmer flakes Tim Harrington also former punching bag of Jonathan Steve Harrington who is also on a tribe with another person that used them has his punching bag billy hargrove yeah so I don't know I don't like Jonathan's Athens shot will he be L. V._p.. Of Survivor Hawkins time we'll tell lex up. We have Karen Wheeler our our tribe mom I suppose choices the tribe mom of the Owens tribe she came into prominence prominence in the last season. I think she is more than happy to be flirtatious but she can also fill that motherly role as well. You know she's very flexible. Though others might be inclined to get angry at her due to her listening in on conversation that maybe she should not be privy to all right and Karen being here. We criticized the writing of Caron Wheeler over the course of our stranger things podcasts I think you and I both have a lot of love for Caron Wheeler as far as her potential as far ars care Bona's performance and we always just wanted to see more from her on stranger things will she be the ass Queen of Survivor Hawkins. I think we are both hoping the case to be yes. Let's roll on forward with Max Mayfield. Here's a hot take. Josh I feel like Max is an undercover challenge. ooh Yeah no actually so she yeah she's hanks she. She hangs up the most arduous circumstances I think she's also a no nonsense person. I think look to her as our confessional queen someone who's GonNa look at the camera and say. I can't believe this shit is happening so i. I'm all in on Max here. I think she had very good chances. The Victoria of survivor Hawkins and not just because of the hair color but a lot of it is because a Mike Wheeler in the House Mike Wheeler is in the Brenner tribe guy his buddy dustin here so that's fantastic but he stuck here with hopper. We know that that's very tense. Sometimes it's very between origin there was this weird thing. Hopper tried to come out for a loved ones before and say your grandmother died right not to be the case she died did so we'll see how that plays out. Also Mike is on a tribe with his mother Karen so much as well as stuck with Joyce. Mike stuck with Karen. Will that game play. I partially did that because I wanna Sierra Eastern moment to happen. It's likely to happen very likely to happen. Robin another front runner here to take home I think is the great scoops ojos very own Robin. No last name played by Maya Hawk in stranger things an M._v._p.. Potential contender for stranger things three. How will she do you here in survivor Hawkins especially due to the fact that you know her? One big connection in Steve is GonNa have our scoops troops members in Dustin and Erica but it seemed like from the season three shit awkward conversations when she initially talked to people I mean and Robbins a person who is trying to come to her own sense of who she is. I wonder you know they say survivor as a really eye opening experience when it comes from that perspective I wonder if province going to have a similar epiphany out on the island all right and the last contestant contestant here in survivor Hawkins hailing originally from the upside down a woman of mystery. She is Delamore S. so look the mortgage. The Demo Morgan is here. We had to throw in a wild card here and so putting the Demo Morgan here I think is going to be a very interesting aspect. I did separate her from eleven. who was her main nemesis but the question is you you know do you cooperate with your enemy? Isn't that invariably what survivor is all about or is she out on an island all on her own right to begin with just from who she is and where she comes from time will tell but I cannot wait to see how the Demo Morgan mixes the game now as Eljay eljay mechanics once said in survivor Kagi on you can trust cute but you can't trust hot. Can you trust cold by L._J.'s rules. You can write trust hot then you can trust Cole okay so maybe the demo mortgage and we'll show herself to be a very trustworthy straight up player but those are your idea. She I think she has two faces or even more. Those are eighteen castaways here on survivor survivor Hawkins and without further Ado Mike I think we should get into it. Can people go to the brand steel page and quick along and see how everything shakes out for themselves sure we can probably put up an alias. Something like poche Osha recaps dot com slash survivor Hawkins. Yes might be able to link today that this doesn't have a month expiration date so if you're listening to the super late and might be expire by then otherwise I think it'd be good to show recaps dot com slash youtube as Josh mentioned before the video should be up there to eventually at the very least we will do our best with all these Shangen but we'll try to do our best audiobook impressions to try to recap the AC yeah just in case the technical difficulties overwhelm us and we're not able to get this. You may just need to listen to this so without further Ado Mike. Let's get in to the first episode of Survivor Hawkins so we're going to start off with a marooning here and during the marooning people are hustling and bustling around it's like a regular fourth of July Fun Funfair Jonathan Wheeler our Jonathan buyers. Excuse me is extremely adept. He finds what is known as the advantage menu found by one Ron Clark during survivor edge of extinction. The advantage menu can be used to either there are steeler award from the winning tribe used an extra vote or use it as an individual immunity idol at any future tribal council this is this is a big get for Jonathan who I really am concerned and for his odds here in Brenner tribe. I don't like this draw for him so him getting that that advantage menu early on really clutch. It's just a matter of will people people suspect Jonathan buyers as the the crafty type. My guess is yes but we will see exactly how it plays out. Do you think Jonathan was rolling around in the dirt like Ron Clark Dan when he got the menu almost certainly almost certainly he's got kind of that greasy look about them to begin to say they. He definitely unlike Ron Clark who died his Gallo Brown with that people are like Oh yeah Jonathan's just getting grody Jonathan Jonathan all right. Let's proceed here as these tribes get to know one another so we do have some hidden immunity eggos or interviewee titles if you will hidden at the Owens tribe camp as well as the Brenner tribe camp will see maybe when the pedal hits the pavement will see people start to look for those. Let's get to our first immunity challenge. Josh let's find out which tribe is going to be the one to vote their first person into the upside down and it looks like the Owens tribe wins immunity and flint so safe from being the first one voted out our bar billy only eleven Joyce Lucas Murray Nancy Steve and well by that's a great first victory for the Owens tribe once again. It is a very lucky thing that Jonathan has that advantage menu he may they need to use it here. In this first episode Mike All Right. Let's get into these tribes to see what's breaking down post immunity challenge so at the Owens tribe the winning tribe barb and Lucas are are bonding kind of unexpected. I think maybe maybe barbas a new coq fan and hurting them. Lucas likes new COQ as well on the two of them are able to just come together over their. There's shared beverage affiliation. I like to share a coke and share my opinions on new coke but not only that Josh there slight bond has brought in one billy Hargrove for the first alliance of the season. Now this is this is exciting because is it you know what's in season three was a story of darkness and ultimately redemption for Billy and if billy has been resurrected after season three for the events of survivor hawkins than maybe he's rehabilitated. Is it a little bit and he sees liquidated rehabilitate rehabilitated. He sees Lucas he goes. You know what I gave you a hard time. My sister really likes you. Maybe we should stick together and Lucas feels feel similarly towards billy and I think billy also probably has a little bit of a crush on barb a little bit of a B._N._b.. Showman a little bit of a B._N._B.. Thing going on here so billy barb and Lucas Equality Alliance but not the only only alliance on the beach no so an alliance between I guess we're going with some each year. Josh because four of the older members of the Owens tribe Joyce buyers Murray Bauman Nancy Wheeler and Steve Harrington have come got. It looks like we're talking about water under the bridge looks like Nancy and Steve Have let-bygones-be-bygones for now to join up with the two adults I assumed when I put Marine Joyce on the same try that they were a natural fit not only are the two oldest members they did take down an entire Russian bunker. You feel like that bonds people. Yeah and Nancy and Steve Dave got history. I think the big surprise is eleven will are both on the outs in this tribe. They're not mentioned in any capacity in the alliance structures and wills mom is here so she's really not looking out for will maybe he's gone missing already. I'm looking out for what's best for joy. Yeah what's best for Joyce all right. Let's move on here to the Brenner tribe. I was about to go to tribal council so this should be very interesting. Yes so Dustin in Robin Josh the scoops troupe is looking at brake. Robin have a major fight. I think they spent so much time together. In stranger things three they now now find themselves trapped on an island here in Hawkins yes an island in the middle of Hawkins and two traffic islands traffic island and they just spent way too much time together. I think that it was bound to happen that they were eventually GonNa get a little too opinionated. Maybe they disagreed over the premise of back to the future Dustin tried to mand splaine back to the future to robin she. She had a pretty good handle on the plot. It truly feels like we actually might already be in the upside down jock because things are truly topsy turvy well these two best friends in season three are splitting apart Jim Hamper and Mike Wheeler bonds strongly and it has a lasting impact look again if we're saying that this is taking place after the events of stranger things three and anyone who died is back to life or if you're missing in action you have been found that we can assume that hopper had a lot of time to think about how he treated Mike the last time he saw Mike. It seemed like he was giving him. The nod of approval thing hopper knows that if he was to vote it out Mike Eleven would never forgive him and so it's sort of like a weird blood versus water like scenario as well breath you vote people out. How is that going to affect the people on the other tried? You're also sort of connected with them too so everyone's blood and watering all right well. Let's get to tribal council that no immunity idols found so far. No Egos have been recovered. Now people are remaining surprisingly conservative with that much like the wheeler family so number so we have Dustin Robin on the outs seems like hopper. Mike Aren't actually working together at the moment that they might be voting together but we have no sense of alliances yet so this tribal council. Maybe a crazy one all right. Let's go to tribal here so nobody's going to play an idol of course there's no no no idol to be no adult to be played all right. Let's get the votes here. Mike I vote Max Okay Second Vote Jonathan Iu Third Vote Jonathan Jonathan's fourth vote Max. We're tied to okay vote. Jonathan Jonathan should've played your advantage. Many buddy six vote boy here we go vote voted out their menu in pocket. Josh regular already point out the crazy stuff for us. Oh my God l._v.. Jonathan be kicked out of the game with his advantage menu that is pathetic as we have come to expect from the terrible Jonathan. Nobody wants to put his name on the wheel to spend to see if they want to spy on him. Nobody even wants to give the time of day as they stand for the update. Let's say who the one the vote against Max was. Besides Jonathan looks like an airline wishing note that Jonathan Jonathan decided to continue on so he will be spending the next several weeks in the upside down where where his brother wants shacked up so Jonathan is going to the upside down he will be streamed. Daily of Survivor Hawkins Jonathan Byrom daily. We have a nice makeshift shelter constructed. He'll definitely coin that castle buyers liars considering he is a buyers looking at the votes. It looks like Aristotle Erica Sinclair through a vote Max as way as well as yet to be seen as to whether or not that's going to negatively impact her in the game because once again there are no alliances if I could interpolate something here at honestly does seem like Jonathan separated himself. Maybe he was a busy celebrating about his advantage menu that he separated himself from the rest of camp and so when it came to going to travel council he was an easy first one out. I'm sure your interview with him. Josh was interest. I area boring. I my theory. This is my theory. Mike is that Erica already playing five chess discovered the advantage menu in Jonathan's bag spreads the news of the advantage vantage menu they all decide to blindside Jonathan otherwise he would have used that advantage menu and then Erica tosses a vote out at Max to cause some chaos and some paranoia that maybe Mad Max is going to is going to get upset about knowing where that vote came from. Nobody knows each other's handwriting yet so let's see how that plays out. I'm here for Eric Diaz Twine. I I am as well all right. Let's get into episode to where Jonathan has made his way to the down at the upside down. He's hanging out. He has some time to think he's used to being alone so really. This is the if someone had to go. I guess it had to be John. The buyer see now is now able to read his advantage menu word for word letter for letter and debate Y Y did he not play it. Though I think it's also to note if he comes back into the game I do believe by survivor rules. It will be reactivated and I think it's right expires at the third tribal menus dead. I think it's done I think even if you were to come back he got voted out with the abandonment unions pocket. It's over. I mean he could pull the Ron Clark. Cut off the bottom and try to give it to somebody sure sure but I don't think Brad's stack clever. I don't think that that's going to happen Jonathan buyers. How are you feeling dude? It's it's fine exactly all right well. Let's get into the Owens. Tribe were shaping up. Our lines is here again. We have Barb Billy Lucas. We have Joyce Murray and Steve the alliance. The alliance will on the outside. It's no idle found the alliance's tribes still still free agents no major things despite a vote somewhat unifying them. We'll see if Erica was able to pin the vote on somebody else. Let's get to the next immunity challenge because that's been things get really spiced up and it is once again. The Owens tribe to Virtue inter-community Challenge wins here Josh Oh my God they're crushing it. They've got Steve Arrington. Here's the Joey amazing they have both Bob they both have have billy and Steve for both basketball whizzes so I can only imagine those challenges what they have to shoot baskets at the end that they're absolutely crushing them absolutely and they both got the top nuts out there. The Moat is being rocked in a way that is more modernized sized for the game of survivor all on the hair even will buyers is where and his rock and himself a little man bun out Murray Boy Bun Murray alias Bald Eagle is shook at all the hair going on around him. He's the war dog obviously the way the word all right. Let's move on here and even though they try has one. I'm sure there's going to be a lot of stuff going on back at camp spices knives fishing kit which is great news well using that fishing kit barb Murray going to bond slightly I think Murray totally with the beard take a page out of the super bone him provider book and start fishing which I think has bowman bruyette Rupert Bowman which has really made a positive impression on barb yeah bad news though billy is having a major meltdown understandably so yeah one wonders if he has he has he's found himself dragged into the jungle swarmed by by rats not snakes snakes and if he is already starting to feel some of the effects of the upside down the redemption story for billy may be short-lived. We'll plus you have to imagine that he's looking at the ways. He's remembering the seven foot swell yeah. That's that's right. That's a brings back bad memories for him so I could totally see the Hashtag survivor breakdown Hashtag show up as he talks about the situation with his mom and how he's going to power through its billy still he's safe for now so you know hopefully he'll be able to stay strong amidst other circumstances. Let's see what's going on with this Brenner tribe space their second vote here. Robyn is going to find the Brenner tribe community Yego Josh Yeah well this one. It's a it's an ego flavored ice ice-cream that she has has found wait until stringer season four when that becomes a thing a mini freezer that she can store the idol in so that it doesn't melt but that will only take it so far good for Robin. I mean Robin in season three. She's the one two codes the Russian message so she was able to discern all the clues to find the idol makes sense to me that they're gonna be the one to find this above everybody else what's so interesting because the way they decide to do idol clues this season as that they broadcast them <music> over these frequencies that you tune into with the radio right next to Christmas tree male and she was the one that was really able to decipher them. She tried to hand sit at first Dustin actually tried to I was not able to to make his very sexually explicit noises much like Lakos well the great the great irony that Dustin had snuck Serie Bro out to the island three Bro our Richard Hatch survivor all stars and we don't need to get into the gory the details but cerebral out on the island and through her through the spy Shak spy shack that even Dustin had built Robin Robin was able to use it and she she has already flipped Dustin. 's utensils against him so yes I know Justin has to pains in the ASS and one of them is deteriorating relationship with Robin who don't have the other one. Yeah exactly is also impressing the rest of the team so maybe Robin on the upswing feels like she can now. She seems like a very knowledgeable person she was able. She knows four major languages so I can imagine that she's somebody who's help leading the shelter building but Josh it's not looking so good for our Morgan here mark and is having a melt. Yes it's bad for the Demagogue Oregon who I think much like billy. There must be a little bit of a sense that the upside down is not that far away way impact the upside down even being in the game. It's calling to these people who've had brushes with the upside down. This is where the organ is from and Billy spent much time under the influence how these meltdowns downs. We're GONNA translate. We shall see soon. We'll I can also imagine that you know the demographic and I think has a certain type of cuisine that she's interested in and I can imagine that everyone's starved out here on the traffic island but I'm assuming the starvation hits Danny Morgan the most Garrett Edelstein Way yes okay. Let's see what what's up with some Brenner tribal alliances right now because it looks like we're finally getting one so it looks like literally everybody who voted for Jonathan at the last Tribal Council so oh that's dust in hopper Karen Max Mike Robert and the Demo Oregon aren pretty loose alliance together which means maybe Josh Erica Sinclair's gambit did not pay off and she made me stuck in the strategic events looking thing for an easy out all right but Erica. Maybe she wants to be underestimated right. Maybe she wants to be the easy vote or she's delivered one too many speeches about capitalism and has made one too many demands about ice cream and nobody can abide it any further. I guess we'll find out at tribal council Hansel. Let's get to the vote here number two of survivor Hawkins. Let's see WHO's joining Jonathan. There looks like Robin is not going to play her. She's not going to play the all right first. Vote goes to Erica. Oh Oh gosh second vote Dustin ooh looking at the showdown of the scoop troupe members third vote Erica. I'm Josh I would not be surprised if it's unanimous vote against Arafat here okay vote Erica. I think one more should do it fit vote Erica. That's GonNa do it. Yep Person Voted out survivor Hawkins Erica Sinclair Josh I think she just got too fancy and I think she got caught very easily with her hand and the ice cream jar and I think unfortunately it was not so sweet surprise for Erica though she is heading to the edge of the upside down too cute for Erica Sinclair who had a breakout season in the stranger things three proper. It's a sad run for Erica here and Eric. I actually would have expected maybe to say thumbs down to the upside down but she's she's choosing to continue on the upside down. She's a fighter her. I'm pretty sure there was a to be continued. Episode which come on nerds come on come on nerds come on nerds she she prayed to rainbow dash shy. He's able to get the response that we have looks like it. Looks like a unanimous vote vote pretty straightforward. Let's move into episode three now. With the obvious outsiders cast out of the Brenner tribe. This alliance of seven is going to have to break down Josh if and when they go to tribal council again. Will they lose once more. Here's cross for them that they won't. We've got Erica has joined Jonathan on in the upside down and I know she was voted out second Mike but just a quick partic- I feel like Erica's clearly. It's gotta be Rim daily. I think that they've they've reversed roles pretty pretty. You know what you're in charge of this Camp Eric Johnston all the orders in the world as they climb up this path to get the one little bowl of eggos much like hopper left for eleven during season two. This is all the Eggos we have not not even a toaster. She is she had thought that she had signed on for Eggos for Life Aggo of extinction. It's bad news for Erica Sinclair who is going to have to to weather the hunger out there in the upside down all right. Let's let's get to owens. Tribe Alliance say the same as Usual Brenner tribe looks like these seven people are altogether. It's a it's the I don't know. It's like the happy go lucky tribe. It's a love tribe. It's kun-bae by Ya. It's much much like the comet tribe except they've got that Mono luck all right. Let's get to our reward challenge. Share I this season now. The Mon- ooh tribe at that was the first show that they ended up winning. Let's see if they're able to turn around much like their real life counterparts parts and they do it. Did it good for the Brenner tribe they are. They've got their choice between comfort items or three hens and a rooster. They're picking the chickens. Damn are coming back back to the Brenner tribe and hopefully nobody's going to big Wendy this thing and I mean I can imagine chicken spree yeah. They're all lying it. I Have Steve is probably I if we remember the K._F._C. Awkward scene with Barbas parents from season to also know worthy of this challenge ended in a slingshot Lucas Sinclair bungled it at the end allowing the move Brenner tribes that make a surprise win here. Hopefully they can keep this street going into the immunity challenge hinge where unfortunately they got the chickens here. Josh Brener try laid an egg and the immunity challenge. The Owens tribe has won for the third immunity challenge in a row wow history repeating here as it was on edge of extinction so is that here here in survivor Hawkins as these these poor this poor Brenner tribe just can't get any luck they can. They can get a couple of chickens but birds of a feather go to tribal council together all right. Let's go to the Owens. Try Peer See if there's any developments from this tribe. It's yet to go to tribal council. Nearly ten days into the Game Murray Boom bone-in Bowman is going to find the Owens tribe hidden immunity Al quite frankly Josh. I can imagine Marie searching being the grounds on day zero. I'm surprised at this long to find it yeah. I think that people are going to find the immunity or immunity eggo on Murray because he's GonNa be hiding it in his shorts. Yeah not a room at least hopefully not a lot of room yeah. I don't think so Murray where the war dog could not channel his inner WLAC to find all these idols Murray is GonNa find the first idol of the Owen Stripe. It's that conspiratorial thinking man. He's just always go. Go going doing all right now. It looks like much more so you know in the little thread that we set up in episode one here billion Lucas finds something in common. Josh could this be the first big power couple an unlikely one but still a power couple of survivor survivor Hawkins. It's a really unlikely duo between billy and Lucas but so far these guys are doing great like they're just really coming together. They're working really well together. It's shared love for for Max. That's really bringing them. Closer together and you wonder if there's going to be a big three way. Alliance should these people meet up further in the game in the meantime Joyce and Steve Our bonding strongly but of course Josh as quickly as they come together. They might be splitting apart part various because billy and Lucas are about to have a minor disagreement as well. Maybe it's too regard as to what they're going to do. You know how they're going to treat Max when they join up with her peers that while they are mending fences the fences are not completely on the mend brand steel is great because I it says billion Lucas fine something in common. It has a lasting impact then Joyce Steve Bond strongly then justice quickly billion. Lucas have a minor disagreement. It has a lasting impact so whoa lasting is loosely defined word. Maybe Lucas's suspecting that something's not quite right with billy. Lucas has experienced with the upside down. Does he sense that billy is once again flayed and also I've enjoyed getting Fli not to be forgotten joys Yvonne struggling. I'm assuming because they bought bond over being you know camp mothers slash babysitters. Yes they both fit before so I think they're commiserating over that. Yeah I think so and I think you bet that Steve he does well with people of all ages is social game is very strong and it looks like Josh finally eleven willow buyers have been brought into the fold on the tribe in some way shape or form a barman. Lucas has sort of set themselves himself up their own power couple early on decided to join up with them so Barbara. Lucas might low key playing one of the Best Games Lucas specifically in survivor Hawkin all right well. What I think is happening here? Is that like the reason why we haven't been seen much from willin eleven. One is like billy was running the tribe people love billy but he had gotten flayed and like nobody else really understood exactly what was going on but will he knows when the mind flares around. He likes it cold he gets a chill eleven. Certainly has has a keen awareness of these kinds of things and once Lucas starts to suspect that maybe something's going on with billy he brings his closest ally barb who also has some upside down experience into the fold old and the four of them much like it happens on stranger things. This is like a little bit of a turning point where they have to rally together in the face of some sort of upside down monster if they don't live together they're going to be played alone. Laid alone indeed all right. Let's move into the Brenner to try once again going to Travel Council and Oh my God Josh. We thought the chickens were safe here. We have big wheeler Mike releases the chickens. Mike what are you doing. Hey you know what this is. Mike was one of his little Nemo Moods because his girlfriend and one of his best friend was over on the other tribe and they kept winning so in a fit of teenage anger. After a good old round of farting he releases the damn chick a man stick to the farts release those keep the chickens where they're supposed to be Mike you idiot bad my berry bad meanwhile I mean it's not a wash for the wheelers. Caron Wheeler's impressing pressing the rest of the team much like we got like the slow motion sequence with billy at the start of season three of stranger things. I think everybody's kind of taken with Karen and maybe that's why Mike is so upset is everyone's crushing hard on his mom yeah everyone everyone is impressive my mom nobody's impresses me well. If I released the chickens it same type of convoluted logic that big wendy us to be fair yeah okay. What are the alliance's looking like? Everybody's still together. Everybody's weighing in saying other yeah but it looks like if we're going off the numbers numbers here. Dustin seems the least loyal three. We have a hopper Karen and Robin and the Demo Morgan are all out of four. Mike and Max seem the most committed here. Meanwhile what's going on with Dustin Dustin leaves the alliance he's done he. Doesn't I WANNA be a part of where he's done. dunston checking out he's he's not feeling good about this thing at all. He misses susie which is not I mean he's also around singing songs which maybe that's why he gets. An underrated edit is because. C._B._S. never ending story license good though concerning his worst enemy robin is in the majority alliance with an idol. I think Destin pick the worst time entire tribes alliance how this is going to be a real shock to the system if Dustin goes in the third tribal council so but then again let's not forget it's out third. This could be the winner so if you're a big dustin fan. Perhaps he want him to leave here all right. Let's get it to the vote. Here looks like I vote is going to Robin who has nine Houston right. Okay sitting on that second vote Dustin the dustman third vote dust in <hes> vote. It says dusty buns Air Klein says to the tribe. I can't read this. No nickname got by dusty diva. Tell me your buddy for dusty. Diva is it's alright. Third Person voted unanimously presumably blindsided here. That's crazy. Dustin getting voted out third. It's about as ridiculous as Chris Underwood getting voted out third which means he's probably going to be in this for further longhaul. He can imagine he's pretty crafty so I think he's going to make himself. You know definitely a commodity in the upside down and you can imagine if he wins inches way back into the game that would endear himself to his fellow upside down inhabitants. Oh my God well. I mean that's going to be tough because Justin and Erica not a lot of love lost between the two of them so dust and showing up to the upside down. It may get tense pretty quickly. Mike are from what I can see. My assumption is that Robin who again has her own tips with dust in was able to convince the rest of her lines to easily get rid of him and maybe she talked him up as a bit of a Squirrelly rolley threat and it's a good thing that they did it because a dozen could have gotten away Scot free here as we're at the final fifteen we have our three castaways on edge of extinction but josh we are about to face a solo up opt on a swath of proportions is on the way the winds twist of course meanwhile on the upside down Erica tells tells dust in that it's it's no motel six out out there in the hotel. Hopefully I mean if you billion Karen's connotation. I'm glad it's not a motel six yeah all right so josh we're going to tribes yeah. He's going to break down from two tribes into at three trial classics survivor staple staple of the modern era the two three the good ole two to three and just like we split into random story lines usually three storylines over the course of a season of stranger things. We are doing it here as well. Let's take a look at the new tribes so the new Owens wins tribe luck of the draw here all old or Owens try members Joyce Lucas Murray Nancy and Steve all making up the New Orleans fried much like again the new comma tribe from survivor Egede extinction. Oh my God now the now the new Brenner tribe is very compelling. Much of the Party is assembling here. We've got eleven and Mike Reunited will buyers in the game. Max is here ear Robin who's been playing such a strong game odd one out potentially but I also I went an idol. She's got an idol so I'm not totally mad at her at her shot here all that much like big Wendy. Mike did stay on on the tribe where he released the chickens as well yes yes we've got the newly formed Newbie tribe not not that they're new to the game in honor of the late Great Bob Newby as we've got justice for barb on the Bob tribe on the newbie tribe alongside occasional crush billy hargrove chief hopper is here Karen Wheeler here so some adults in the room and the death of this is really interesting Josh because going into this swap the Brenner Renner tribe was down six to nine nice but it looks like the way things swapped out the Brenner Old Brenner type has a majority on two out of three tribes. You know always be throwing if these Brenner 's can unstated gather may behoove them to start throwing some challenges here though I feel like for Mike Wheeler who had just released the chickens he sees eleven and will on his new beach and he may want to hold hold tight to his his pre-game alliance that he hasn't really been able to tap into well. It'll be interesting as well because I mean eleven is going to interrogate Mike about what happened to those chickens and we know that friends don't lie friends combine. He's caught between a rock and a hardstone here. Okay all right well. Let's let's keep going with the game. Let's see what some of these tribe dynamics like all right so. It looks like things are pretty straightforward. Murray has the immunity idol. Lucas unfortunately lost two of his main alliance partners looks like surprisingly the the adult teenage alliance of Joyce Murray. Nancy and Steve has survived entirely which is going to be a formidable coalition here so I think that Lucas is linked to his old tribe. I think if your power ranking these five members he's Mondro he's in trouble. I agree okay going into the new Brenner. Tribe Robin has the Brenner tribe idle and it looks like you know obviously the burner type was all in an alliance with each other and we do have two members that were formerly on the outs of the tribe together so we'll see if they work together or split apart. Let's go to the new eleven will or eleven willer sticking together. The buyers family move plus eleven has has really bonded them closely together and Mike. I think probably they were skeptical. Maybe even a little jealous all right. Let's go to the new Newbie tribe here so there is an idol that is hidden will not be found as of yet as we mentioned before we do have barb and billy together as well as Jim Karen and Dan the Denim Oregon so I I think the big takeaway right now is so far everybody is sticking to old tribal loyalties that everybody's original eligible original tribal alliances so far staying strong hopper and Karen the adults in the room have somehow somehow they're still kicking it with the Demo and while Barb and billy are just like cooking up in the woods all right well. Let's get to our immunity challenge here. Two of them are going to win. Immunity Yank Your Hang. WHO's the best at Yanking Gang? The newbie tribe is going to win immunity which is good. They spend a whole day constructing a new camp and the Brenner tribe is going to win immunity which means the five members of the new Owens tribe who have never been to travel council before Josh are finally facing facing the vote. It's finally time that the sweet sweet owens is going to be spilling some blood justice Paul rises. He must fall as well owens is going to end up at tribal council cancel well. Let's see if there's anything that changes in their dynamic before said Tribal Council looks like Joyce and Lucas are bonding slightly. Maybe Lucas in his time of need is looking to weigh motherly figure any chooses Joyce instead of Steve Additionally Murray and Steve Find something in Common Josh. It's certainly not hair care yeah who is Murray told Steve to have sex with now yes exact- grass that's classic Murray and I don't want to speculate you too deeply on on the possibilities. Well does have a lasting impact. We'll see what Jeanne acting oh my okay well. Let's get going on nothing going on at the Brenner tribe yeah. It looks like nothing occurred literally. It says nothing occurred in brain. Instill the might be the first time I've seen that status. Let's see maybe someone will find the Newbie tribe eggo. Let's see the Denim Morgan is found the new heat dry bego. Wow so the demo the demo of ORCA has this connotation of being being a little lazy constantly underestimated for being cold not hot but the Demo Morgan is very very crafty very resourceful very relentless in its pursuits of its target so the Demo Morgan walking away with the idol to me. This feels like this was just a matter of time and it certainly making things very interesting heading into the next phase of the game to have a creature from the upside down with eggos in hand. It'll be interesting as well considering that I can only assume we get all those shots people looking for idols running off into the jungle. We know how quick demagogues usually are so. I can only imagine how a lightning fast she moved through the jungle. Meanwhile Barbara Hopper have a small fight not off to a good note on these two members of formerly different tribes well. I think hopper probably doesn't like the fact that he has to deal with like a dead person like you already did the paperwork on what happened with Barb. I can imagine I didn't hopper hopper I think is going to complain about the bureaucracy to Karen Wheeler who I think is going to offer a nice supporting shoulder and it will bond slightly and give them any lasting impact and not in that way. Murray looks like something is going on though the de Morgen after getting the idol the eggo is going to say screw you guys I'm off on my own now well. The Denver Morgan had been impersonating human being long enough now that she's got some eggos. She doesn't have to play that game anymore so she's just going to actually be herself. Curious strategy a bold strategy. We'll see if it pays off your cotton. Let let's get to tribal council. Iva Failing. It's going there'd be Lucas here. Unfortunately I think the prime members that's going to be a very tearful travel council episode Ford Edge of extinction. This is a family they do not want broken up but I feel like Lucas is invariably on the bottom here all right. Let's find out how this is going to go down at tribal council number for Mike Bloom Mayor Kline sitting in front of this crew and we're about to send potentially somebody else to the upside all right. Murray is not going to play his egg. How okay I I vote Julie which I guess is Nancy Nancy going by a different name? John Nancy may be experiencing some kind of glitch in the Matrix one wants to change change <hes> her byline here as we're proceeding for it in survivor Hawkins all right next vote Lucas <hes> third vote Lucas two boats Lucas one vote Julia Nancy fourth vote. The Matt San Lucas Player to meet his sister and his B._F._f.. In the upside down Josh was this just did Lucas get swapped screwed here yeah. I think that Lucas got swap screwed year. I think that Lucas bonding being with billy before probably not great as Lucas had left that alliance was trying to warn everybody about why he just couldn't trust billy anymore. That billy had been flayed. It's not impossible that the rest of these these people he's leaving behind themselves have been flayed and are under the influence of the upside down and the mind flare poor. Lucas is going to be heading to the upside down where his sister awaits this and he will greet her by saying. Weren't you supposed to go home and she says weren't you supposed to die. If I could only imagine the secret scenes of arguments that occur there renaming Lucas I also so think unfortunately the alliance here of Joyce Murray. Nancy and Steve is essentially saying that survivor Hawkins is not a young man's game. It's not their rate approved at age is a number and gosh darn it. It's it's fabulous so we'll see what message that sends to his former allies barb and billy on the other side. Let's get into round five here so we have now four members on the upside down but Josh we're GONNA get some action action going on here. They are going to get a map with a clue. ooh A map with a clue over at the upside down and would you believe it that it's Dustin who is going to find the first advantage. He is is going to be running away from the others. Everybody had agreed that they were going to go search for the Russian bunker with each other and Dustin took off and Erica is yes. She is yelling all sectors of the universe about it but it's okay. She's GonNa have her own fine. A short time later Erica's GonNa find it advantage where she can give an extra vote new person attending the next tribal council so I mean she has no love lost for the people who voted her out unanimously but Erika's got a little bit of power here. We're talking about capitalism. Now are doing some democracy. He was going to say that. Erica is nothing if not an expert negotiator so I think she's going to hold out for whoever gives her the best deal whoever see things we'll give her the best deal. What's the best return on investment? Here looks like she has a plan in motion. She hasn't contingencies Josh based on WHO's going to the next tribal council. She's going to give it to Steve No max or four billy interesting choices very interesting choices. I mean well. I think that <hes> giving it to billy make sense. Maybe a little bit of that upside down loyalty if she senses that billy has been flayed also if Lucas gives her some Intel about hey I was close with this guy right and you know Max is Lucas's girlfriend and I think even if Eric doesn't like Lucas very much hard to argue that Max is super awesome so she's she's Max Fan who is in and Steve Hair Harrington acton even though he is a big loser did give her ice cream for life so maybe she feels like she owes the guy something all right well. Let's get into the rest of this episode. Looks like everything is square on the Ellen. Strive much like Brenner. Try One point. Everyone is together on the Brenner. Tribe looks like everything is same old same old same thing on the Newbie tribe. Let's get into our reward challenge here and looks like we're competing for some nice a nice hometown favourite josh them peanut butter and Jelly and the Owens tribe is going to win a whole slew a peanut butter and Jelly sandwiches in some nice ice cold milk Willis shook at how ice cold milk doc ID unfortunately while they do not win his brenner tribal win peanut butter and Jelly sandwiches leaving the Newbie tribe empty-handed going into the Derby Challenge. The peanut butter and Joey smothered all over those eggos. It's not quite the triple decker go. Extravaganza ends a good. That's pretty good. Hopper still a little ticked off that he was not able to benefit from that even though he has been trying to keep on a diet survival basically put you on a diet and he's he's. He's happy that eleven is GonNa get to eat at the very let's get to the immunity challenge here. The Owens tribe are are mighty for some. It's going to win immunity here and the Newbie tribe even though they lost the reward they have a sweet sweet victory here immunity sending the new Brenner tribe the tribal council Josh now. This is GonNa be interesting because we've got some really compelling dynamics here on this in this upcoming tribal council where we've had we've had robin who's been kind of on this. It's really amazing run. She's got an idol but she got. Maybe potentially a little swap screwed here. She's stuck with these kids that she doesn't know very well. She's just met them. is she going to be in trouble at this tribal council. We'll find out soon. I let's go back to the Owens camp. A looks like something's going on here. Steve has said you know what I don't want to be in an alliance with everybody. I'm doing my own thing. I'm striking walking out on my <hes>. My Dad told me to build some character after high school. I'm doing that now. Yeah I think that whatever bond was existing between Steve and Joyce dissipated once Joyce realized she had a conversation with Nancy. Nancy wasn't feeling great about her potential future mother-in-law depending on how things go with Jonathan Gene like that growing closeness so it seems like Joyce and Nancy have bonded together while Steve is is going to be on the outs from that but he and his hair can only be on the outs for so long and of course that bond is also going to form a new alliance a new duo merging Josh Joyce and Nancy Nancy who seems to be in control the numbers you know they have Murray in their pocket. They've pump push steve too the outs Josh number only facing one more vote before the merge but could we see Steve possibly get the chop here next time around. It's not impossible possible I mean I think that you know he's been a challenge beast and maybe they figure he's gotten them as far as they need him to get to the merge and Stevie amazing could find himself in the upside down before too long all right. Let's go to the Brenner. Tribe who is facing travel council. Eleven and Robin are going to have a small disagreement which makes sense you know eleven detri- to Help Comfort Robin tried to help comfort eleven during the show by telling a really awkward story about her friends gruesome soccer injury sorry I can only assume she does the same thing here to make a horrible first impression yes. I think that that's very likely these two probably just don't quite see eye to eye just yet. They haven't had a lot of screen time together and eleven in Max kind of bickered in the beginning to do so. Maybe this is going to be a similar deal between eleven robin before an epoch friendship but though they bicker a little bit it looks like actions is revolving around Karen Wheeler who has maybe having Josh a bit of a second thought about her participation in the gay but she decides to leave the alliance and assumingly might offer herself up as someone to go right now is this a glitch in the matrix are hopper and Karen on this same tribe as Robin Eleven Max and Mike. Oh that's true. I didn't even realize all right well. We'll monitor. We'll monitor disregard for now. Let's let's see how going by Dr we'll see what Julie's up to on the new betrayal yeah okay so looks like hopper is impressing the rest of the team. I can only assume that high on the spirits of not going to travel council again. Hopper has serenaded his new B.. Try with his try to ensure edition of you. Don't mess around with Jim. Despite many wrong notes at earns a wild amount of applause from his new B. Tribe yes so he's he's doing well. People are excited about his challenge. Prowess is just brute strength thing everything and he just had a pivotal role in this win so okay. I guess we gotta we gotta go to tribal council with Carla. Honestly honestly I don't remember who is part of this tribe. Yeah yeah so we're going to find out what's going on at the at the Brenner tribe no at tribal council. It looks like this is the real deal we've got eleven Max Mike Robin and will buyers on the Brenner tribe and and they are indeed going to go to the tribal council and the votes are about to be read all right. Let's see Robin plays her eggo Robbins GonNa keep that eggo warming up getting slightly soggy in her pocket. Let's count the votes here. Progress Mike. I vote Mike Second vote well who all tearing the party apart this makes my heart ache third vote Mike Wheeler um well. We're tied to votes Mike Two Votes will one vote left. The fifth person voted out of Survivor Hawkins Whale buyers wow that blindside was called hole but he does so then he liked it. Yeah Goose pimples on the back of his neck. There's little blindside tingle that made him realize at the very last second what was happening well yeah well. He got to the sign at the edge of the walkway and saw that he has shot to return to the upside down and will gleefully grabs that torch to get to the upside down to return home to castle buyers with his brother Jonathan this is this is old hat for Bill Byers. Who knows what it's like out there and the upside down better than anybody else who's out there and also knows how to wear an old weser tat as that's true? He's wearing wizards at. Let's see how the votes broke down. I'm very intrigued by this. So it looks looks like actually relatively straightforward we had talked about how eleven and will were on the outs. They were the only two former owens try members. It looks like despite the connections that were going on they stuck to tribe lines and I think that the key vote here was Mike Wheeler I think eleven wilbur trying to appeal to his emotions but of course we know Mike Wheelers emotions are torrid at best at the end of the day wow and eleven voted for Mike. She voted to dump his ass. How and I think that's what she wrote on the boat as well right Mike I dump your ass nut so she said in her confessional dump your ace? I dump your ass alright so this is a pretty seismic vote. A lot of relationships have been torn asunder like you said at least will is on the upset and the becoming a bit of a family affair which is they can cry together yeah all right so let's let's keep going into game. We've got one more vote before this whole thing is GonNa flip upside down quite literally. We're on we're on the upside down and looks like Josh. We have more treasure hunting going on it. Looks like Erica Sinclair finds her second advantage in a row she can while we have dustin being able to practice for the upcoming Reentry Challenge Erica's able to penalize another player for the re entry three challenge Josh this this wound up in the best person's hands Erica's very very clever. I think she's just out there. She Lake everybody else's tired. They're exhausted will lucas in dust in or just in their castle. Playing Dungeons and dragons. Jonathan is sort of like reluctantly reluctantly therefore Erica wants nothing to do with these nerds so she's out there in the upside down hustling and of course she's going to find this advantage. I'm liking Erica's chance at doing what ream daily could not and maybe getting back into this game all right. Let's get to the players that are actually in the game. At this moment. We see that Joyce Murray and Nancy together Stephen Struck out on his own James Dean style while Joyce and Nancy have formed their own little side deal on on the Brenner tribe looks like eleven is on her own at this moment on the outside looking in with a blindfold onto everything on the Newbie tribe looks like everything is pretty straightforward. Let's get to the next reward challenge here where looks like the Brenner tribe is going to win some pastries cookies coffee and tea but do not worry Jim Hopper. You're going to get your much-needed coffee here. As the Newbie tribal wins second place yes some coffee and some cookies. It's very sweet ice cold coffee for billion the demo organ all right. Let's get to the immunity because this is fun. One from what I remember Josh it's one of my most entertaining aning twists in survivor history. Were two tribes are going to be going to tribal council this round to vote now one person Oh my this is much much like the stranger a stranger things season where the groups come together to work together towards a common purpose so only one tribe ibe is going to be immune here. Let's the Newbie tribe will extend their massive winning streak and let's see if barb and billy will not attend tribal council until merge looks like the Newbie tribe is winning community. Wow Oh my God so a lot of stories here where yes we're GONNA have some people who haven't even brushed up against tribal council where we're not gonNA have Barbara Billy go to tribal council but not only that we've got to creatures from the upside down and billion Gorgan who have not yet gone back to the upside down which maybe they would have preferred so it's hard to know if this is heaven or hell for these castaways but this this this next tribal council is going to be hell of an event yeah. We'll because if we're looking at the where things stand in terms of numbers we have four new omens tried members. We have four new Brenner tribe members now in the real survivor extinction they very much tried to stick with their tribe lines to the point where they nearly went to rocks or I went to dice. Is that the stranger things where they just roll dice instead and whoever rose the lowest number goes here but we have a lot of cross mingling as well bul eleven want to flip immediately considering how they got rid of will we shall see. Let's break down these individual tribe dynamics looks like Joyce and Murray are bonding slightly. I gotta say Joyce buyers also impressing the rest of the team. She's she's doing a pretty damn good job putting a lot of work primer chair Josh well. I think the joyous has spent so much of her time in the stranger things universe concerned about so many other people and this time she's out here for Joyce also point out that she has lost both of her sons now how yes both of her sons are gone and so now she's like fueled by the loss of the buyers boys all right but it looks like Julie. You know what I think it is. I think Nancy says I'm new. I'm taking on a new persona. I'm no longer Nancy drew. I think she cuts her hair with the machete down to like a nice pixie cut and she becomes Julie and this Julie is a much more brazen attitude. Josh enjoy says screw you mom. I'm leaving the alliance theat for whatever reason to branch steel wants to refer to Nancy as Julie. This is a spoiler that she is going to be a losing finalist. I will be upset with the simulator but we'll find out exactly what's going to go on there all right so that is the tribe. Let's check in with some of the people who are going to be in contention potentially to go to tribal council all right so on the Brenner tribe. Max is impressing the rest of the team. I'm assuming she's just showing off Awesome Rad Ali's especially impressed by that sweets gaining bro exactly she's like rock and some arcade games high scores left and right but josh it does look like even though Max Mike and Robyn stuck together in the last vote. This alliance has dissolved at probably the worst time they could have done so yeah. This is bad and don't forget Mike Wheeler did set chickens free. This is around the same time that big Wendy went home under similar circumstances will big wheeler be the next victim in survivor Hawkins all right. Let's see memo to the Newbie tribe billion hopper find something income. Maybe a little bit of like a competent criminal or competent juvenile delinquent alliance going on yeah. I think the thing they find common is a crime was committed. Billy committed it and hopper arrested him. Hey remember we were both there on the size of the law. Meanwhile carbon the demo Morgan bond slightly. You know we talked about a complex being resolved. In the first few days here jockey with some other pairs could barber the de Morgen finally come around to each other considering how the Timber Morbid and barb have a bit of a history yeah barb was like all I wanted was justice. I got it I forgive give you and the Demo Morgan's and meanwhile it looks like now a Newbie tribe alliance is forming billy has been able to crack into the former Brenner tribe looks like he pushed out barb as a result and Billy Jim Hopper and the Demo Morgan have formed an alliance carrying wheeler seemingly still off on her own crying on journey yeah figuring martyrs unfortunately on the outs but they're not going to travel council so there they all make the merged personal matter what let's go into this tribe tribal council because there's a lot of possibilities here we have attending eleven Max Mike Robin Joyce Murray Nancy and Steve Harrington. There's yes there are some interesting things to note here that even though it's eleven Max Mike and Robyn who are coming from the same tribe Joyce Murray Nancy and Steve on the opposite tribe they used to be on a tribe with eleven will the five of them stick together Robin Max and Mike be able to come up with some sort of minority plan robin having a hidden immunity eggo in her pocket. It's not impossible that she's going to be able to make some moves here but we'll she risk the biscuit for her tribe while the had cookies so we are about to find out all right. Let's see what's going on here. Mike so it looks like nobody Oh actually Murray is going to pull his idol out and in any true most honourable move in the game. That's far plays it on Julie Nancy so any votes against Nancy are not gonNA counted the Tribal Council surprised by this move Josh I am very surprised by this move except for the fact that I think that Murray definitely has some sort of like super creepy old man crush on Nancy Julie so maybe he thinks that much like that this is like a modern day billion candice story where he thought that she told him that she loves him <hes>. She's actually speaking to Jonathan off in the distance. I can also imagine that Murray thinks his ego is bugged and so he wants to get rid of that thing as much as possible. He just wants to get rid of it. Okay let's get to the votes all right. I vote Joists Ono yeah. No today misplayed the idol. Did they get faked out. We shall see goes to Joyce second. Vote goes to Joyce buyers. ooh This is bad for joy so we were just singing your third vote joys buyer go. She's going home to her voice. Some comings four vote Max okay fifth vote Max. Oh could they could ditch producers have duped us. Josh we shall. Let's see let's go to the sixth vote here. Max We are tied three votes Joyce three votes Max two votes leapt seven votes Max. Oh my God okay one more vote on tie or Max's Atta here. Why about Max Hicks player voted out is Mad Max in deed? She thought she could just skate on through to the merge much like she goes in the same round as a robs a bank nick from survivor Thailand so I guess this is the Skater Kirsch justice bad spot for the borders but how we're going to go through to the votes here but yeah it looks like pretty much Max Mike and Robyn the remnants <music> of the old Brenner tribe tried to stick together here. I think they were able to get maybe rile up some whispering at tribal council at Murray to play the idol on Julie Nancy only throw their votes on Joyce. I'm assuming they tried to convince eleven and maybe Steve Even to jump ship but it looks like they weren't going to they wanted to exact revenge on will much like season one and unfortunately that meant Max going to the edge of extinction to round up this first group that well okay. I bought back in the there's some compelling storylines very wines. Here is well. You would have thought that Steve was voting with his tribe. He actually voted for Joyce. All My name is Robyn. Who voted for Matt you know Steve was really hurt by Joyce softening the bond between them so Steve decided to vote for Joyce? Maybe Robin duped Steve and Robin and Steven like a comedy of errors as they want to do they got their signals crossed and they voted for the opposite person. Perhaps apps some sort of cross tribal scoops Ahoy Alliance could be in the cards alright so let's get to our next phase of the game here so I we are on the edge of extinction around the upside down so we're going to bring all twelve remaining members of the game to this random field or mind flayed mayor Kline says a well known to survivor them are just here emerge funfair so many things to take apart in win a big sized plush of Boston Rob but there's some fourth of July take years to become iconic others become iconic the moment they happen and income this might might be one of them. Incomes Jonathan Erica Dustin Lucas will and Max Josh Ominous Music is playing as want to do in survivor hockey heads and it looks like these knicks are about to compete for a spot back in the game sight unseen. Who is your hypothetical money on well? Jonathan is the closest to an adult literally competing against the pledge of children so if Jonah it does it with this one that he really does suck so hard it depends on depends on how some of these advantages play out. I mean Erica. She's she's not like sugar hype to the way that she sometimes is is that might play against her favor here but she's been very determined ever since she's been in the upside down will has escaped the upside down before so you got to think that maybe he's got a little bit of an edge here Max the most recent person sent to the upside down. Maybe she is going to have one foot still in Hawkins so I don't know I feel like dusty buns. I think his time is yet to come. I'M GONNA put her in prediction addiction your. I don't know maybe it's because I'm still thinking about Max having a chance to win this game but maybe the fact that she has yet to spend a lot of time in the upside down. Maybe she is the least mentally compromised mental fortitude so I think she has some some good sway way here but one person is going to be starting a bit further back from the rest of the pack to start as intrusive things vagit Erica chooses to penalize Lucas challenge yeah she's done. This is one of those moments where it's like okay. I think Brian Steele knows what characters were using here because that is just pitch perfect. Erica is freezing lucas out giving them a little bit of brain freeze at the start of this challenge all right. Let's see who is going to be back in the SADDLE NAPA A hard-fought challenge well buyers will the lies is going to return to survivor Hawkins in a story line line that mirrors the first season of stranger things will he likes it cold buyers will return to the beach of Hawkins Indiana. He's going to reunite with his mom. <hes> he's got his friends Mike and Eleven still in the game but will he bring any of the upside down with him will he will he be barking up upside down slugs as he returns also not coming with will and the slugs to have an ego yes but in order for it to be activated it must lie dormant much like that part of the mind flare date until season three. He has to give half an egg to somebody nobody else if they both survived the next tribal council then it will form a full idle so we'll have a lot of thinking about to do as well as to who he is going to confide this ego in and it looks like Josh while most those players are returning back to the upside down. One person is now. We've officially lost our very first player from survivor Hawkins Josh. Oh my God okay. Lucas Sinclair has decided he has had enough. He has raised the flag. He is leaving the upside down. He will not be part of the survivor Hawkins jury after all this time Erica's bully campaign against her older brother. It's worked worked. It's too much even Max staying behind on the upside down is not enough to keep Lucas behind and Mike. Maybe you're from a couple of episodes back. A couple of Mike asks ago you did say Lucas was in contention Shen for L. V._p.. Of Stranger things three perhaps not but L._B.. Survivor Hawkins he couldn't hack it suffice to say I think no matter what he's going to go out with fireworks some assuming he set up a bunch of those but I know survivor twitter raked this guy over the coals who has the last laugh because he gets leave and drink that new coke so all the new coq he can drink at Ponderosa because he's alone going on that pre jerry trip all right. Let's get thank you are merge here. In true fashion the Alexi tribe is going to be made up of Barb Billy Eleven Hopper Joyce Karen Wheeler Mike Wheeler Murray Nancy Julie Robin Steve The demo mortgage and the recently returned will buyers are lots of interesting things going on here. Josh now is will going to have this is the question right like will buyers in stranger your things. He is absent for most of the first season he is the M._v._p.. Of Season Two for sure is the best character remarkable performance from Noah snap. He's a breakout Rick Devon's when he returns from the edge of extinction becomes the breakout player of that season. We'll will follow suit or is this going to be a season. Three esque will buyers that we were seeing back in the Game D._V._D.. And I don't know I think that will hold a lot of power here. He much like Rick said is playing with house money. At this point much like you spend a lot of time in his infamous house in season two. I think that he might come back in a little bit of a different mind from you know he did only spend one vote at the upside down but that does have a pretty profound impact at him. I guess my bigger question is not how he's going to impact the game but how the game is going to impact him in. Do we feel like these people are just going to say. Let's throw him back out there or do you think they're gonNA pass him by in lieu of bigger targets going on here all right well. Let's find out how this is going to shake out very exciting here. We are halfway through survivor Hawkins. There is there's much much action to be uncovered and it looks like it took eleven long enough to find a damn eggo considering how affiliated she has with the brand she has found the merged tribe idol. We now have four idols titles in possession here. Gile one has been played. Murray Murray played his ego so we've got eleven has an Eggo. Robin has an ego and the demo an also has an ego. Let's look at some alliances here so the power couple of bar and billy is still holding strong. We have Joyce Murray and Nancy Julie Together Murray's trying to make Nancy enjoys do some weird things yeah he's trying to. He's got the MERGE FEAST EAST VODKA SPONSORED BY Burger King Down Bar been eleven remember that barb tried to make alliances with the kids we also have billy hopper and the Demo Morgan working working together from the Newbie tribe everyone else though seems like it's fair game with some very interesting elements here all right. Let's get to immunity and this is exciting. We've got we've got a surprise winner here. I think a lot of challenge beasts in the mixture were at the merge and yet it is going to be none other than the chicken man himself Mike Wheeler wins the first individual immunity of survivor survivor Hawkins. He's feeling good now that his buddy will is back in the game. Yeah I mean who would have thought I mean this is the one where you you stand. Hold the boom pole over your head. I mean I guess he has more arm strength than you initially suspect but I think like you said Mike is on cloud nine right now and I think the fact that he can't see his competitors because Harris so blocked off his eyes have really helped him in this challenge so yes mike is the only one guaranteed to see the final twelve year the rest in some way shape or form. We're going to be up for elimination here. Let's see how things shake out before travel council. We have our idols billion. Steve Bonds strongly gye rich finally been built. I think that they're both just like in mutual of each other's island hair they both look incredible and I think that they realized that they could either fight or they could love one another just befriends all right and we also have Mike and Nancy having a major fight. I think that's totally makes sense to have never really been on the same page. It would only make sense that coming together for the first time this season they are going to bicker at one another bad moment for Julie Nancy considering that Mike is safe here. She's he's only put herself in a worse position by doing this sibling rivalry it was bound to get to them here. We have yet to see real bad blood between siblings and the Oh just kidding Eric Lucas but we'll see if history repeats itself in this regard a some more drama here in the Alexi tribe is originally from from they had bonded over at Newby Beach Billy Hopper and the Demo Reagan and hopper has finally woken up to the fact that is like dealing with people from the upside down. He probably shouldn't be yes I alliance. He's realized you know what I'm a dirty cop but I have fallen in with the wrong crowd. Let me break to the good side when I can. It's a big merge field anything goes here. This is an opportunity for me to declare myself saw three a free agent so get another pair letting the game here billy and the Damore and so with a lot of fluid pairs going on here Josh. I honestly feel like anybody could go home at this moment besides the chicken freer Mike Wheeler okay we. We are at the Merge Tribes Tribal Council the First Tribal Council of the game of the merge stage of the game. Somebody is about to have a chance to go back to the upside down. Everybody's everybody's shaking in their boots now that they know that the upside down is a thing some of them suspected it now they all know it will has come back with terrible tales of what awaits they're a terribly mean little girl who's hoarding all the the ice cream who is still there they he s she's still there. She bullied her brother out of existence. So what is going to happen to get sent to the upside down from this major crew of people still we'll find out what's going on here. We have thirteen votes up for grabs. Here looks like the jemma Morgan is GonNa say better safe than sorry. I'M GONNA use this idol on myself but de Morgan is protected from any votes coming her way. Wow okay yeah. The de Morgan has already been to the upside down and has no intentions of going back there anytime soon. The de Morgan is here to Conquer Hawkins well. It was a denim Oregon's read right or the lack of is that you can't see what's in front of her. Let's find out I vote demo. Morgan Does Not Count Does Not Count de Morgen does not cow Obama. Morgan does not count right from the Demo Morgan wow almost like supernatural skills of observation and sensory fifth vote Demo Morgan does not can we probably like a consensus emerged boot here diverted josh wow okay. Let's see Karen Wheeler Woo. That's one beaucaire in two votes Karen Wheeler how Three Votes Karen Wheeler that's three votes Karen Wheeler we have four five votes left five boats negated on the Dammam Oregon nine vote billy billy okay so it looks like the former one near lovers might be on the rocks here or are up on the chopping block Tenth Vote Bill as we have three votes Karen two votes billy three votes left Bailey. We are tied three votes billy. Wow eleven boat goes to bill you. gotTa wonder that's from eleven. Does she always have to vote. Eleventh eleventh is eventually going to be able to work out that way but potentially here. We'll see tie here with two votes left Billy Twelfth Votes Billy. Oh my God all right. It's got to go to caryn otherwise billy is going to be wiped out here. At the start of the merge. Seven person voted out of survivor Hawkins Billy Hart ground. Oh my God and billy amazing bitterly himself is going to bite the dust at the merge is going to be sent to the upside down Mike. I think that they all finally sensed it. I think they finally sensed that billy and Idem Oregon both originally hail from the upside down. They should go back to where they people long and so they tried to do it on the on the obvious one the Demo Morgan de Morgen wisely played that idol and billion his man Bun Bun are going to the upside down spectacular well. Let's take a look at how the votes shook down here in this very chaotic merge vote so barb voted so it looks like actually if I could recap here so the funds who voted for the DEMOC Demo Morgan who ended up getting the votes canceled out by the ego where barb eleven okay so she was not the eleventh vote unfortunate Hopper Karen and Mike Okay I guess we haven't we had a little bit of parental double date here. We had hopper back together with his surrogate daughter eleven. Maybe they decided to vote together so the two of them joined up with Karen Erin and Mike along with barb to vote for the Demo Oregon Billy Billy voted for Caron Wheeler I think he made a passer didn't go so well yeah and so so it did Robin and so did the Demo Oregon you know we saw billy had bonded with the De Morgen. I'm not entirely sure where Robin comes into the picture maybe she's just sort of. She heard a plan and she was following a trend but the the nail in the coffin for poor billy. We have Joyce Murray you Julia Nancy Steve and well. It's a big surprise that Steve voted for billy after they had just bought it. It's a little bit of the Ron Clark Joey amazing thing. We're billy. Where we're Steve must have gone to billy to ask stake? What's the plan and Billy said go look go follow those yards and see what they're doing and Steve didn't like that and also? I believe you know Steve Realized Hey this is fun but there can only be one hair now l.. Let's let's split. Let split hairs quite literally. We'll send you to the upside down but crazy split vote here going on it should shape up for a very interesting post merge here in Survivor Hawkins with twelve people left. We now have billy joining Jonathan Erica Dustin and Max on the upside down some if you heard this before here Josh Erica's GonNa find an advantage and the upside down yeah billy was almost on top of it Erica grabbed apt by the mullet yanked his hair threw him across the upside down and finds not one but two advantages she can practice for the re entry at the next challenge and it didn't help her last time so the WHO last time it didn't work out well for for for Lucas tie up but Erika's also going to be able to get an extra vote to remaining player in the game and she's going to give it to to eleven. I like it. I think that she understands that eleven is friends with the nerds but because she has superpowers she wouldn't dare to call her a nerd and if Erica is lucky enough to reenter the game she is going to need friends in the game and best to befriend somebody with superpowers plus. You have to imagine that she like the rest of us are like come on eleven use your big powers and maybe she feels like literally empowering eleven might be able to block through that mental wall and get her to actually bleed some noses and and start moving things with her mind all right so let's see there's there's no idle currently hidden. We only have eleven and Robin left as our Idaho Robin has been sitting on that idle since episode two. She's ice cold man. She's he's got ice cream flowing through her veins play hope not maybe that's why she's not doing well in challenge to restructure our alliances here Joyce Murray and Nancy are still a solid thing and it looks like Barb Orb and eleven are working together. Literally everybody else is just sort of throwing their votes everywhere. They're just kind of hanging out all right. We got a reward challenge cheer. We're going to have some groups that are formed working to have eleven hopper Joyce Murray Nancy and will are going to be one team. The next team is going to be barbed Karen Mike ROB and steve the hair Harrington and the democratic and that affirmation team. They're going to win in reward Mike they are going to get Chinese takeout from the from the Star Court Mall special delivery. Yes Panda Express tread lightly when the blue and yellow meet in the West and I believe that these are blue and yellow teams as well so it is all too. I believe that you know the final puzzle was to put a bunch of points together and we know that hopper though he is used to nailing planks up on walls considering how many stages they do within a house. Unfortunately it did not work <unk> out here as this group gets some much needed M._S._G.. Moving into the immunity challenge where Murray Bao Minh is going to take it he's able to stand on his toes the longest but just like he's always on his tell us what the various conspiracy is going on around Hawkins. I think that that's right <hes> congratulations to to Murray who really needed this immunity because I think people haven't quite forgotten that dazzling idle play that very bold play that he that he he made on Nancy Julius Louise behalf earlier in the game so the more that Murray can protect himself. I think ultimately the better what's going on back at the beach before tribal council Mike Well Karen Wheeler is impressing the rest of the team. I think we know she likes to entertain. She loves house parties. I think she finally feels liberated from her husband. Ted Wheeler is lamenting when he comes out for the family visit so I think you know we said we wanted a story for Caron. Wheeler I think Karen is just like having in a little bit of a she's just kind of crushing it lately. Meanwhile Barb and Steve have a major fight understandably so let's remember that Barbour encountered see back when he was jerk ass these Harrington season one yeah never forget that not not only that she died in his pool <hes> the hard to forgive and also we have Karen and Steve Having a minor disagreement. I could totally see this being. The case where Steve is a bit disrespectful around camp. He's leaving his Taylor hat around and not hanging it up and Karen decides to have a word with him additionally barb and eleven decide to call it quits here Josh and they didn't really have much in common any. I don't really know where that came. was them coming gathering like why are we working together right now. I'm not really sure what that was all about in the first place but there seems to be a mega alliance forming here on the Alexi tribe between eleven her father surrogate get chief hopper her boyfriend Mike Wheeler Mike Sister Nancy Robin and Steve scoops trooper hanging type the demo Morgan really just shining everybody. The De Morgen Social Game is just outstanding considering that it is a creature that I'm assuming cannot communicate whatsoever. I guess that makes it the most trusted in the game it had its moment with cheap hopper once upon a time eleven and will who is also in this alliance they can speak the upside downs language so I don't know I guess I better the Dem and Morgan you know the De Morgen you don't and of course will is here as well will also made it through his tribal council in tax. I'm assuming he has that idol now now in his pocket and so with this Alliance of Eight on the outs are who we have Karen Wheeler we have a barb we have Murray. It doesn't really matter for Murray. He's doing okay yeah and who else am. I forgetting about here. I think that's it. I think that's the Joyce Joyce in a little joyce okay. It's just a little spot of bother will is deciding like I have to play my own game. I have to do what's best for will all right so we have Karen Joyce Barb and Murray very on the outs. Let's see if one of those three sands Murray is going to be going here. Let's get to tribal council. I vote barb second vote Karen Wheeler Third Vote Caring Wheeler Votes Karen One vote barb fourth vote bar. We are tied to boats barbed who votes Karen Fifth Votes Karen Wheeler Three Votes Karen Three two votes barb. That's three votes barb three votes Karen six actually seven votes left. If you count eleven's extra votes seven votes is. She claimed her extra vote. Oh that's true. I'm not entirely sure it didn't say they're not seven vote. Karen Wheeler that's four votes Karen Three votes barb eight vote is Karen five votes Karen Three Votes Barb Barb five votes Karen Four Votes Barb Tenth Vote Barb Five. Hey votes barb five votes carrying wheeler it's GonNa come down to these last two here. Eleventh vote assumingly from Eleven Karen Wheeler Okay we're at six votes carrying five votes bar beside the retie for Caron Wheeler who we just proclaimed as denigrate independent women's story line might be making her way to the upside down last vote and next person sends the upside down no guarantee are and how seeing how because it turned out to be seven five which is interesting. It seems like that Alliance of Eight one person might have defected so let's take a look here. Barb voted for Karen Eleven eleven voted for Bob Hopper voted for barb. Joyce voted for Karen. Karen voted for barb. Obviously Mike voted. Mike voted out his own. Mom voted out his mom. Mike Wheeler is the Villain of survivor hockey out right now. He freed the chickens. He voted out his own. Mom Wow Mike Wheeler is just free wheeling through the game. He wants to play without his mommy. Votes puts out his mom unbelievable. He overheard his mom's pep talk to Nancy and he didn't like it. He didn't like that. He didn't get a pep talk. Nancy meanwhile voted out her mom as well. Why Ah Nancy bird out her mom because she didn't ask for the pep talk and she got it anyway? This is like the biggest amount of impudence. I've seen survivor ever like Mama A._K._A.. Mom We birthweight set when eastern meets West Yeah. That's what happened here. When East meets West Nail Double East in for Caron Wheeler who I think she was just she was feeling herself she was she he was really feeling like she was crushing it? The whole tribe was impressed by her so I think we gotta say that at the very least where stranger things has failed Karen in the past at least we're getting some some great action. We got some Great Action Room Karen here in Survivor Hawkins and it's not over for her. She goes back to the upside down. Maybe now she has a second shot at love with billy. WHO's there it's interesting because I'm looking at the votes as well and it seems like despite that Alliance of eight being together half of them voted for barb so you don't think this is a split vote plan if they play it safe tonight all that way and they also know I think Karen Bar both know you're on the outs that they don't have documents so the Denim Oregon Steve and eleven and hopper all vote for barb as well as Karen so yeah? I think it's safe to say that the lines of eight is currently in a stranglehold stranglehold over the game right now and poor barb and Murray and Joyce unfortunately looking in the house right now in that log cabin. Let's go to the upside down relatively straightforward. After a couple of rounds Erica is pissed that she has not founded advantage yet considering how flush with cash she has been in the past but everyone's just hanging out there. There's just shown in the upside down right now not a lot going on back. At the beach eleven's. She's still got the idol rob and still has the idol the alliance between Joyous Murray and Nancy it still holding strong though I done are we are we saying here is Nancy. A Mole Nancy's double dipping double dipping. She's got she's got the alliance with with Joyce. She's got the alliance with Murray Murray still trying to make some magic happen between the two of them. I think Nancy is just playing the long just in case and she's also in that Mega Alliance alliance between eleven chief Hopper Mike Robin Steve Harrington the Demo Oregon and will buyers all right. Let's get to our immunity challenge here as barb. All this was a new needed thing for barb. She nearly went home at the last tribal council and she knew that so she was going to stand there for Bo Diddley and as a result she was able to keep her ball perfectly balanced and claim immunity here. Josh degray Gray much needed win for barb much needed win much as she needed justice. She needed immunity even worse. She is safe from the upside down once again how long she can hold out here. I I don't know if barb can run the table and make it all the way to the top here. This could be this could be a real Cinderella story for the previously deceased barb justice. I'm going to arbor rally but that's something very different justice if bargain hold on longer than she could onto those pool rungs when the demagogue and dragged her into the upside down. I think that's going to be okay for barb. Let's see what happens here hopper and Murray find something in common probably because they realize they're both the oldest people in the Gabe that was going to say it's that or they're both like hoping to see something happened with Nancy and Joyce PERV alliance. The PERV partnership is really becoming a thing. They're getting very pervy. They both like their fair share of vodka which Murray has squirrelled away from the merge vis vis impressing the rest of the tribe with. I think everyone is appreciating that. They're gonNA take some down time. You know the game have been a little hectic a little intense. The Pass Rounds Murray is going and get everyone nice and calm here on the he's going to build a pullout into the shelter. Just everyone can have places to sleep additionally Julie. Nancy and Steve will find something in common. Josh I mean with out of the game for yeah. It was on while the boyfriends away. We'll the Julie play the I think that Nancy and Steve have rekindled a little bit of their old former flames for each other do offer the fire making challenge yeah absolutely <hes> but in a big development we're seeing that the giant alliance here in the Alexi tribe that there's been a little bit of a swap razz Steve Harrington is going to hop into the steep is already in the reliance or we're going to see eleven is leaving the alliance. It's like once again. She's she's mad at. Mike Yep Dumps his ass and she says she's GonNa fight with her. Dad Guess you're gonNA find out that they're withholding information from our they're giving her a a bunch of rules and she doesn't like those she's going to step over the trap wire and head out on her own to Barb Kogyo where she is going to come back to barb hat in hand and say okay remember when we had that thing and we realized why are we in this thing. I think we should be in this thing again. We should be in this thing again. So eleven is going to leave the alliance could be an intentional ploy as we know that eleven she's got the ability to harness those superpowers. She does have an ego <music> in her pocket. will she use it. We will know once her nose starts gushing blood Mike boom all right. Let's get to tribal council here. Looks like Robin is finally going join to play her idol interesting choice but in the majority alliance maybe just saying you know what better safe than sorry. I think believe this also was the chaotic Julia Tribal Council in edge of extinction so maybe she felt by historical precedent. She wants to make sure much like David Wright did on Rick Devon's that she wants to be safe here. Well I think that Robin and eleven both knew that the other one had the eggos in their pockets and I think Robin seen eleven leave the alliance made her nervous and eleven seeing Robin use her Eggo makes eleven want to get super powered as well. The blood is gushing from her nose and we've got to idols out in the open here for this crazy ninth tribal council of Survivor Hawkins. Let's get to the votes. Could we see a no vote scenario. Happy Guy Geez man. I hope so all right. Let's read the votes my first vote eleven does not count while eleven and does not count. She drew these also eleven and does not count. She does not count she has them exactly where eleven has been quiet all game long. She was waiting for this moment. It's the Blockbuster Tribal Council vote eleven does not count stakes vote. Eleven Does Not Count Josh we are halfway through the votes here and none of them have been cast properly yet God all right eleven. You're you're killed eleven. Does that guess we'll take a brief break to get some slurpy and force the cashiers face against them Si- order Sherry not this Shit Strawberry Eighth Vote Eleven Kevin does not cow. I mean we are looking at eleventh. Worth the second coming of Kelly Wentworth is this is crazy. Ninth Vote Eleven does not cow Josh. This is insane. Oh Oh my God Tenth Vote Robin Oh you Oh my God eleven vote robbing does not account that is an eleven vote passed by eleven eleven. You gotTA assume it's Barb voting for Robin. Mike no votes. There is no vote they have to revote at the final on the vinyl eleven eleven months out just destroys the game holy Michelle mentioned so this is all right so it looks like there's a tighter revolt. Those in the Thai will not revote so it looks like Murray Nancy Joyce wastes hopper the demographic Mike will and Steve are all up for grabs here so remember Robin and eleven are now Emil and I mean they were immune anyway because they played idols so barb and barb in eleven were the to who are really not in the alliance right. I think Joyce may be in trouble here. As well Murray could be in trouble as well you you expect that the alliance between the De Morgen Mike Nancy Will Stephen Hopper will hold wow no crazy night. It's hard to know what could one up the Julia pilot passenger. I'm jumping ship tribal council but this might be a top contender here. Eleven votes cast none of them count. I'm still in disbelief sleep about that all right so let's see of this revote. WHO's GonNa go so everyone? revotes eleven wipes the blood off. I vote well. You exit called Second Vote Murray. Uh well one Bill Murray. Oh my shitting in his shorts third vote the Denham Oregon wow the demo morgan finally draws blood. Yes they get a baseball bat and they finally took a swing at her fourth vote Nancy. Wow we are trying to one. This is crazy. The craziest thing I've seen in any of these brands steals fits vote it just player. We have one will one bill Murray one vote demagogy one vote Nancy one of Steve. It's anybody's game five votes all right six vote people vote for the person on your left. Oh God nobody knows what to do. No one was allowed to speak. Everybody's discombobulated needed seven vote okay. Murray Murray looks like he's in big trouble already. Yes votes to two one two one two one wearing those brown George now a lovely. They're ready to get his stink to the upside-down Eighth Vote Joyce to join two votes Murray. Let's keep going here ninth. Votes Steve Harrington okay hair the hair a two votes Joyce two votes Murray Joy Okay Revoz choice to vote Steve Two votes Murray one vote left choice buyers after maybe the greatest travel in our brain steel careers careers Joyce by a revote after a no vote idol to idle plays as being sense to the upside down. I mean I think everyone is stunned. Including Joyce at this moment Mike Bloom we have watched a lot of survivor ever. We have talked a lot about strangers things. I don't think that we have ever seen a stranger thing happened in survivor than the Joyce buyers vote. What a blindside what and why this this is why survivor is still on after all these years Joyce GonNa continue onto the upside down of course? She can hardly believe what has happened so let's see what happened there. You're correct in that. It seems like the formidable formidable duo of Barb and eleven did vote for Robin. They were the two loan votes are good on Robin. I'm assuming that she sort of did what a Jeremy Collins did. In survivor Cambodia where when eleven worth went to go play her idol Rama site to stand up employees hers as well which is good if she would have gone the wildly on different pages for the revolt were barb voted for Steve Harrington she wanted justice for getting killed in his pool and eleven voted for Nancy for truly Julio reasons that are beyond me pretty wild hopper vote here. Mike Bloom Hopper voted for his own daughter. He tried to vote out his daughter. It did not work for him so instead. He boated Joyce Joyce buyers out of the game. That's what happens when you stand up the chief of police. This is what happens when you mess around with. Jim and detective buyers is promptly fired. WHEELBARROW is off kilter inspector Joyce seal later Joyce voted for eleven. She tried to vote the demagogue and out of the game instead she will see the democ organs home turf at the upside down Gryke. Mike voted for his girlfriend eleven. Maybe he was mad at her dumping his ass the vote he also throws vote onto Joyce Mike and you offer his yeah. This is some sort of coordinated attack where Lebanon's like vote for me tonight. I've got a plan and then vote for Joyce afterwards so we have Murray voted for eleven and was able to squeak by the vote tried to throw a vote Steve's way Nancy at through a vote onto will in the revox just seems to be sort of out of nowhere robin through vote onto Murray in the revote Steve also so voted for Murray looks like that scoops Ahoy crew is finally on the same page the Demo Gorgan through vote onto Joyce with Mike and Hopper and so did his <music>. Everybody voted their mom out everyone who could on their mom out except Jonathan buyers the worst w pleasure double voting out your mom oh my goodness kids of Hawkins or taking taking over will buyers poised for at Devon's ask run here through the merge of Survivor Hawkins and and Joyce's shook yes she s she huddles up in castle buyers with Jonathan when lamenting the news of the evening she can hardly believe what happened though now because I think the VO ended up being so chaotic he could very easily say he voted for Murray he voted for Steve. He'll hell he could get away by saying he voted for himself and I'm sure people would believe him but wow who would've thought one of the most chaotic tribal councils ever would end up with somebody else for the second time this season voting out their mom survivor Matra side should be the unofficial subtitle all of this season Mike. I can't believe what's happening here. We have to continue were up to episode nine. A two part episode here in Survivor Hawkins Tenth and Eleventh Tribal Councils are going to be looming that eleventh tribal council coming up ominous feels ominous for for your friend and mine coming into episode nine so much momentum behind eleven yeah completely agree. Let's go to the upside. Yes I down. I rejoice has recently arrived. Looks like we're going on a little bit of a treasure. Hunt Joyce is going to find an advantage for the next immunity challenge and it gave it to eleven game respects game you know I think that Joyce understands that eleven did what she had to do. Eleven did not vote for Joyce in that revote so she's feeling like she's just got a she's got a she's gotta give props to somebody who played masterfully and could use all the help she could possibly get all right. Let's take a look. There is immunity immunity idol. I go back in the game or will buyers capping off a streak. You says screw you mom. I can make my own breakfast. Here's an egg. Oh here's an ego and he is he is he's hogging all the airtime in addition to the Eggos here will buyers look and you think at this point they're going to just call him buyers now yeah I think I think that he's earned last name. Status last buyers standing no buyer's remorse year all right. Let's take a look at what else is going on here. So Murray and Nancy still holding together without Joyce Murray still pervious ever maybe even more so it's magnified now that Joyce's not there to divert some of it looks like that alliance lions <unk> still trying to hold strong the anti eleven brigade that voted against her at the last tribal council while Barb and eleven three Amigos style or able to survive the last tribal council. Will they be able to escape the news this time. Let's let's go to our immunity challenge where the Denham Oregon. It's got a little and on the Demo Morgan wins immunity and an embarrassing showing for otherwise the star of the season so far eleven who had the advantage and could not seal the deal nor could she seal the door to the upside down. She's left it open three inches and she may get sucked in at this next tribal council well. You'd have to imagine imagine that Devon Morgan still has some resentment held towards eleven and it's one of those mentalities of like I need to beat you no matter what and I know that the eleven was the second the second to last person to drop out of the challenge and so the Devil Maureen just sort of one by pure will punt unintended. Let's get to our try. Peer always see is the dental more can now safe has a major breakdown once again josh honestly bloom. It was just a matter of time. This is a demo Morgan trying to mix it up with human beings so the fact that the Demo Morgan is is just now finally starting to lose its mind. It's a surprise that it took this long. Let's get to Trap Council Josh. I don't know if eleven is going to make it to episode eleven. She was able to stave off death breath once before but I don't know if she can come in at the eleventh hour and escape it again all right well. We're about to find out it will be very embarrassing for eleven to Miss Tribal Council number eleven. This was eleven's goal coming into this season. He's in will it go down. This is a major milestone. Let's read the votes I vote hopper second vote barb could the alliance speed thinking that eleven has an idol and takes out her right hand woman in Sao Okay third vote Hoffer to topper one vote Barb Barb. That's two votes bar two votes homes or sting interstate vote eleven tissue votes barbed two boats hopper one little could see a split vote scenario here Josh six vote eleven. This is bad news bad news to to to to seventh vote eleven thank having three boats eleven to votes bar two votes hopper four votes eleven. It's over right. Let's call the ball game here. Eleven such valiant effort this is our robbed Queen Goddess Eleven by six two two two two votes is sent to the upside down. You know listen much like the bald. David Wright was voted out in the first part art episode nine of survivor edge of extinction so too does the ball eleven. This is season one eleven. We're talking about according to the brand seal picture. She is knocked out of the game. Just one vote shy of the eleventh tribal council she you couldn't bear to see it. Perhaps great run that was one of the best moves I've ever seen in survivor history at this most recent tribal council before this everyone was was was wise to get eleven eleven out of the game enough rope. She's GonNa tell a kinetically pull it away from you. Barb and eleven tried to get hopper out of the game eleven voted for her dad but her dad voted out his daughter and it looks like in well through a couple of votes barb just as a split vote plan in case eleven played another idol they could tie it up and get rid of bar pair so we'll leave it. Mike Mike Wheeler dumped eleven's ass. He voted eleven out of the game Mike Wheeler again turning full villain here. The Internet hates him at this point. They're saying look I know you're shoving buyers down our throat but send Mike home. He is an A-hole yes ask. The unreformed bad boy of survivor Hawkins Mike Wheeler Alright were to our final nine here. We're barb is very dire situation. He she's facing off against an Alliance of Eight beat that doesn't seem to seven with with Murray. Maybe at the side piece that doesn't seem very privy to keeping her around everyone's chilling on the upside down. I think eleven being there crush a lot of people remember Erica Center and extra ex-rebel once upon a time Joyce Center at challenge advantage does seem like eleven was one of the favorites of the upside down and they are all sad to see her there as the fan community. Everything's good alliance wise immunity challenge time hopper oppor wins immunity. Yeah castaways must balance a dish with five dimples on a ball support each castaway must land one ball in each of the five dimples hopper drops his towel will but he doesn't drop the balls he wins the ballsy challenge and it's really no surprise and to celebrate. He puts on a sound pair of sunglasses and rain next entire magnum P._I.. Opening credits it's a little obnoxious but we'll give him that we will give them that all right. Let's get back to the beach. Mike over at the Alexi tribe. Wow fairly big development where the bad boy himself Mike Wheeler is deciding. He doesn't need these people anymore. I think that might leak got eleven out over there. Maybe he's feeling some regret. Maybe he kind of wants to go to the upside down. Maybe he wants to go be with eleven again yeah. I think that's exactly what it is. I think Mike realize is like Oh my God what have I done. He's become corrupted with power that he's realized he's lost the person person that he never said I love you too. I think he's looking for an opportunity to tell her that maybe that means. He's voluntarily wanting to send himself to the upside down. Maybe just means. He doesn't want to work with these people anymore. Including his own sister I'm not entirely sure but once again and Mike finds the most inopportune moment to put himself on the outside there with barb and Murray I still think barb is prime to go here as eleven's number two but Mike might have put himself in contention here all right. Let's get to tribal council and see how this is going to shake out. Whale is going to play his idol on Robin. Wu and the cast agains Rosin Well not count listen will as the mind flayed likes it cold knows that Robin works at Scoops hoyas amenable to making free ice cream for life deals. Perhaps he thinks that if he protects her with this idol he's going to get ice cream for life when he gets out of the game well. Let's see if wills analysis was accurate if he has the omniscience of the mind player as well will I vote barb second vote barb third vote barb fourth vote Mike Sue Three votes barb one vote vote and Mike Fifth vote. Mike Ooh revotes barb two votes might six vote. Mike were tied three votes. Mike Three votes barb. Could this be a blindside for for the bad boy wheeler seventh vote Mike Wow let's go. It's it's done toast and eighth vote and the person voted out next Mike Wheeler thought he had this game on lock got rid of his Meat Shield in eleven and he found himself on the wrong side of a blindside just like that Josh. What did Mike Do Wrong here? I think Mike was Arrogant. That's classic Mike Wheeler. Are you know he got. He got too big for his Britches and then I think he got really mopey in Imo because he felt bad about what happened to eleven and I think that he left the alliance of part of me feels like this is what he wanted. I think that he wanted to be with eleven. I think that he was feeling weird. Being around hopper for without eleven there he just he felt like maybe if hoppers in the game and I can go to the upside down than hopper can't stop eleven and Mike from being together so Mike is going to go to the upside site down vote breakdown ironically enough Mike and Hopper they vote together. They both vote for barb alongside Robin idle play it on her by will buyers who will voting against Mike will voted without his best friend. The organ votes for Mike Steep Harrington votes for Mike Nancy votes for Mike Murray votes for my barb votes for Mike. Do we think that Z. Mantle of bad ass wheeler has now been passed from Mike to Nancy Julich concerning the now. She's voted out her mother and her brother from the game. We gotta see Nancy get a hidden immunity gun for her to make that final transformation into the bad ass Nancy and say you're Ghazi. We'll see where that goes all right ten brandt the final eight here just to recap our final eight is barb Hopper Murray Nancy Robin Steve The dental Morgan and our upside down return buyers. It's hanging tough right hanging stuff all right go to the upside down. Mike arrives. I'm sure to a big argument with eleven with Erica chiming in I'm sure for good measure really awkward night there in the upside down looks like Mike and Mike at Eleven eventually make up the kissing makeup and everyone's really grossed out and then they kiss and they kiss some more and then they just keep on kissing and everyone authorized gross so then we take a look at our lines is here. Murray and Nancy have become the New Power D._O.. And they're sort of a holding strong here and listen Murray is not in the majority alliance Nancy still just keeping that option open. She's looking out for him looking at her in a very weird way it's Semaine Alliance of Nancy Hopper Robin Steve The hair Harrington demagoguing and will buyers the six of them remain tight together. There's a reward challenge. Everybody's split into two groups and it looks like back barb. Hopper Murray and Steve are going to win a trip to the mud pits and man if he ever thought you needed the image of hopper and Murray rubbing modern each other spoiler alert. You do not yet but it's happening. It's real <hes> they're bonding very closely. <hes> in Murray's like rubbing the mud all over hoppers belly hoppers rubbing the muddle over Murray's hair Steve is not going in the mud pits. Neither is barbed R._v.. Last time young went swimming. She died so she hasn't been in the water all game yeah. I think it's interesting. She smells a lot but this might be the first time that have our winning. Team has opted out of the reward. I'm surprised they did not pull the same on they'll give it away to somebody we move onto the immunity challenge here and Robin is going to intercommunity. I believe Josh that we do not have a repeat community winter out as of yet. Wow that's amazing. This is very athletic group surviving stranger things this is no easy feat and with three seasons of upside down obstacles under their belt. Everybody is a possible winner all right. Let's get to our try here. Barbara Steve Finds something in Communist similarly not wanting to get in nat mud. Yes while looks will the unwise will has left the alliance. Why do you keep doing this doesn't pan out for anyone eleven left? She nearly got voted out. Then then got voted out. Mike left here. Literally got voted out buyers. What are you doing dude and is ends up being like you leave the alliance? It's not even like people like get like kicked out of the Alliance always framed as like I have left the alliance and then that person person gets voted out buyers this very stupid idea. Let's say for saying bye bye to buyers once more as we go to tribal council here. I vote bar second vote. Wales Idiot third vote you idiot four the vote. Well three votes will one vote bar stupid idiot fifth vote will God Damn Dan you Moron six votes yeah will you dumb dumb voted out unanimously buyer's remorse officially. It is a terrible a terrible showing from will buyers here who gets knocked out of the game what he absolutely should not have had to be knocked out. Don't forget he also had that return. I'm from the upside down idle in his pocket that he'd never used. It goes back to the upside down with it. He's going to return to the upside down. His whole family is going to be there. They're going to be very very mad and disappointed. Can we also say barb has become come the cockroach of this season you know we thought that right. After eleven left she was gone but Mike and will somehow burn bridges much bigger than hers to the point where she is just stuck rounders actually been brought in on some of these votes. This is crazy crazy. This is crazy. We'll voted for bar. Everybody else voted for will L. V._p.. Of this season at this point fires what will you had the game in your hand your hands did you just threw it up. Oh my bar fitting adding to the sink goodness. You're definitely you're definitely worse than his dungeons and dragons game boy all right. Let's move into our final hat back on his stricken. dunce cap in the corner will becomes the tenth person in the upside down right now getting a little crowded. They're in a castle buyers but they are they are they're surviving no matter what let's get to the reward challenge because Josh we're getting some Love Oh oh family visit nice and Robin is going to win the reward and it's Mrs Clicky Clack and he actually was crushing on the one that really badly oh weird okay okay and he has has come out for Robin Esser loved one shrimp people to share with and she picks the demo organ and hopper. You know what interesting choice on on Rama's Park I believe Robin picked the two people who had the most strange connection to their loved ones. I think hopper picked one of his deputies and the Demo Morgan picked what demagogue as Dart Tar darkens out dark comes out. It's the first demagogue dog in survivor history to be a loved one all right so with some questionable love under everyone about. I can only assume how much she pissed off. I mean Barbara missed out seeing her parents do to Robbins picks here. Let's go to the immunity Andy Challenge. It doesn't matter if the Robin went off for the second time zone yes unity yes all right. I'm all in on this Robin train right now m._v._p.. Of Stranger things three what's make a run at this Bob and Ron. I think that a running robin and also she's used to standing there all day at scoops of Hawaii can imagine her feet are pretty numb as she was totally fine standing for a long time. Okay this is great. Robin is the immunity winner. Nothing could go so wrong for Robin. This round has chosen to leave the alliance are at these people are getting flayed man I. I think we're heading for some reason hopper. Nancy Stephen Morgan are just that toxic that people just cannot deal renaming. You're getting one of these. Dr Shawn Things Robbins like I know it happened with eleven. It happened with Mike. It happened with buyers but if it happens one more time then I'll think there's a pattern but something curious has occurred. Robin has left the alliance but she's forming a new set of scooper trooper. Yeah Ah Wayne leading the way on a new crew Jim Hopper going undercover with a new scooper trooper alliance alongside Robin Barb and Murray who ah most loyalty of the entirely crew because he's just desperate for any has literally nobody. He's had literally nobody for the past week in the game. I mean with seven votes Josh this six together. We could see Nancy A._N._C.. Steve or the demoing yet blindsided here. Oh my God okay Wow Robin Robin pulls this off. This might be one of the most successful round. Any survivor has played in brain steel history. Let's get to tribal council. I can't wait any longer longer. I vote bar. I feel like I've said that literally every time for the past five rabbits second vote Steve Ice Cold Third Vote Barb Fourth Worth Votes Steve Retired Barb two votes Steve Will Robbins Plan Work here fifth vote barb three boats barb to vote Steve Steve. We are tied three votes Steve Three votes barb one more vote right when so did Robbins plan work or are we saying goodbye to bar here finally barb list to see another day. Steve Harrington is voted out Steve the hair Harrington knocked act out a Hoy Matey Rhone down an elevator shaft into a pile of his own this Robin Robbing Pause on one of they've biggest moves rand steel history. She gets Super Troopers two point Oh together to blindside an O._G.. Member of Super Troopers Barb Hopper Murray an robin although for Steve blindsiding Nancy Julie Elite Steve and the Demo Morgan Day now her colleague wow I mean I'm I'm all I'm totally in on the Robin trained at this point. I'm taking Mrs Clicky clack. I'm hopping on the back there and riding that train the station. This is an appropriate level of craziness year at a podcast that is absolutely going to boil over four hours at this point the stranger things feedback show I. I don't know if it's delivering for you folks but it certainly delivering for us here as we are watching survivor Hawkins unfold and we're getting to the final six Mike and it is a WHO's who of people left behind. We've got justice for Barb Holland Chief of Police Jim Hopper the conspiracy theorist himself Murray Bowman the Never Nude Nancy Julie Wheeler Robin the ice cold ice cream scooper her mother things jeb this is going to be I mean we have one more round before back from the upside down and shakes the game up once more still a lot of play. There's an alliance of four but who's to say EH. Jim does not have allegiances back to Nancy on the Demo Morgan. We could see tie here. I think it's safe to say that Marine Barb are pretty tied into Robin. Robin saved bar here so it'd be interesting to see how things shake out the eleven players and the upside down are going to receive letters that Jim Hopper wrote to them entering the Yes. Yes just leave the door three inches. Yeah see sad. Music is playing in the background. David David Bowie plays David Bowie actually fly speaker speaker system into play David belly will everyone weeps over their letters as it gives them some reflection right before they come back into the game. Let's get to the Alexi tribe here also something to note here though Oh Josh even though we have Nancy on the outs Murray and Nancy have the most loyal lions in the game so far I think the Nancy's been secretly dragging Murray through much of this game but what's amazing this Murray has not told Nancy about his secret alliance with Chief Hopper Barb and Robin Yeah so we'll see if that ends up burning Nancy here and then we'll see yet another wheeler get blindsided. Let's go to our reward challenge where challenge Lynch beasts Robbins domination continues. She wins reward Baguette trip a helicopter trip around the island to a poolside luxury resort. She is picking her feller scooper troopers hopper and Murray a who for some reason cover each other in mud again even though the reward she left bar behind barbed being in that alliance but I think she recognized that far would not appreciate the pool side luxury resort. That's true I I do think that Robin may have made a mistake here by by bringing chief hop right like outs a member of her alliance and laugher hoppers participation so far he was deeply undercover. Maybe it doesn't matter though if Romney continues her challenge streak in the immunity challenge she does not she's just not it is a win for Nancy. Julie Kirby Acre ranch still persists. It insists that Nancy's name is Julie this the the prophecy of Nancy as a losing finalist continues to build momentum. Nancy wins in a word puzzle at the end. We know how good she is with her words censoring. She's a roving reporter so it makes sense for her to win. This very much needed in for Nancy but certainly puts the de Morgan on the back clawed foot here but if the Alexi tribe finally feeling safe Josh Barb has a major meltdown. I was ready to swim. I was is ready to swear on my birthday. I swim. I fear well. Let's scream if she's going to stick with the Super Troopers Cooper's or could barb flip here we shall see as we get into our final six tribal council I boat hopper hopper. Finally hopper always throwing thrown himself into harm's way finally getting to see some payback for that second vote the Demo Oregon Denver Third Vote Barb who one vote each hopper de Morgen and in Barb Fourth Vote Democratic votes them Oregon one vote bar one vote hopper two votes left Demo Morgan by four to one to one now is going to the upside upside down so yeah looks like despite maybe Robin revealing her hands here barb having a meltdown the seems like the super troopers stuck together and sense the Demo Morgan finished off the plan stick stuck to it as is east met West once again to send de Morgen finally to the upside down where you have to applaud the Demo Oregon I think like actually like applaud the Demo Morgan because this was not a human being and is not the only non human character the only non human castaway out there and survivor Hawkins made it as far as the original vinyl six and still has a chance to reenter the game Mike because because we have reached that point where the door to the upside down is opening one last time and somebody is coming back to Hawkins for vengeance. I should note the that as much as I thought the scooper troopers to point out with stick together barb actually voted for hopper. She was mad. I think she felt that hopper stole her poolside spot I think and so we actually saw that Murray was able to bring in Nancy Julie here as vote to vote against her former ally Dental Oregon. I think Nancy Julie just doing anything but me approach at this point. Here's how we're looking right now. We have a final five of Barb Hopper Murray Nancy and in Robinet but they will not be five for very much longer. They're going to have one more person. Come back as there's voluminous of twelve people come in here now. We knew that Erica had an advantage to be able to practice the challenge as much as she could josh this is going to be a huge shot in the dark. Do you have a pick as to WHO's coming back out of Jonathan Erica Dustin Max Billy Karren Joyce Eleven Mike <unk> buyers Steve and the de Morgan. I think you gotta go with history based on survivor edge of extinction you got dust in the third person voted out. Can he fulfill the underwood prophecy. I'm just going to say yes because that's going. It'd be so ridiculous. If it comes true I for a story purpose would love to see eleven comeback. I feel like eleven embar joining up and eleven exacting some revenge on her father would probably the best outcome here. Mike coming back would be fun but we already now have a new new bad ass wheeler so I'm pulling for eleven here. She's becoming a fan favourite at least from our perspective all right. Let's find out it's the edge of extinction return competition. One player is going to come back from the upside down for a shot at a million dollars and sole survivor Hawkins Glory and Missouri is Dutch. Oh my <music> steep. Oh my God the never ending story on he's flying in on fouth or singing the song he could not be happier back on Dustin Wood confirmed here. Dust incomes of the game says who the hell are these people I cannot for the life of me believe that this actually happened unbelievable dusty would uncommon for the clutch ear is returning to survivor Hawkins. He better find an idol. He better win some challenges. This man needs some luck on his side if he is going to get back into the running for the million dollars but it's just fantastic yeah clearly happier slipping back in new gum being his way into the into the game. I will say Josh Good News. Is that much like buyers before him. A dozen was given the two halves of an idol so if he makes a pass this next tribal council he will have something to play but he will not be able to find an idol back at the Alexi tribe camp as Murray has found his second Eggo of the game that can be used in the next couple rounds all right and he still L. has his friend Nancy here who played an ego for already in the past <hes> the the new power alliance of Barb Hopper Murray and Robin they are holding tight which could be very bad news indeed for the newly reentered Mike Wheeler Dust Anderson. Yes Henderson Not Mike Wheeler at all we we're. We're so far into this we are we are. We are basically took. We're just like four at this point. The podcast is going to be almost the length of stranger all right. Let's proceed here. Let's let's keep keep on keeping on here. Julie is going to win immunity at Nancy Wheeler at the final say she also wins reward here and gets to take two people to steak and chocolate cake. Apparently it's now a rule of thumb to take Murray and hopper onto any rewards these two guys get all the fringe benefits of going on reward challenges years without actually winning them. Josh no Ruth's Chris Steak Spur Dustin Henderson this this this may not be tipping in the direction of because underwood prophecy after all for some reason Murray and hopper are now rubbing chocolate cake on each other. It keeps getting each other dirty love this. They fear it's good luck at this point. Let's take a look at the Alexi tripe here so we know Murray has the has the Eggo Barb and Robin are bonding strongly but Robin has a major meltdown jot. I think she's seeing the N.. Tear it's just insight I think she's very afraid that this could all fall apart especially with the return of a Wildcard Dustin. Well listen. Mike Ice Cream always melts eventually if you don't eat it fast enough robin has been on a tear and she she may just be at the point where she's losing it. Josh things just became more complicated. We thought that hopper much like Benji Bergen with noticeable half before him was the spy hopper has left the alliance yeah okay so he's getting voted out so here's the thing so we have barb Murray and Robin in an alliance together but we know Murray's tied with Nancy we could see Hopper Nancy and Dustin vote together to force a tie. There's a lot of permutations going on dust and could very well go out the revolving elving door here to join all of his upside down denizens on the jury as well. Let's see what happens here at Tribal Council Oh my God all right I vote which surprise surprise that goes to barb barb second second vote barb. Could this finally be it for the Barber Roach Third Vote Dustin. Um Yeah that makes sense fourth vote Dustin two votes barb two votes dust in two two votes left Dustin Amer going back out that revolving door dusty buns spend one more day in the game then he did before by four to two Dustin has officially joined the jury Josh All right gotTa say I know that people were you know had their opinions tampered based on who what happened to the edge of extinction return in the season proper got to see him pretty disappointed here with what happened with our attorney. I'm pretty disappointed as well except for the fact that you know what it was spun out there and the upside down and dust and was a great character but we've had a really compelling group of five that are now entering the final five highs and lows for the remaining players in the game. This will not be a season that this perverted that is asked by an upside down returning claiming the game everybody an upside down Ashra so it's actually at the bottom of the text instead of the top every single player remaining in survivor Hawkins skains has been in Hawkins d entire time and now it is just one last battle of star court for this final five with with you would imagine nancy being on the outs because of this alliance that has existed between Barb Hopper Murray and Robin for the past few rounds but we'll nancy find herself in a swing vote position especially with her close affiliation with the Pervert Murray Bowman Uh we also see here that Nancy under Murray's wing also voted in the majority for Dustin with Barb Hopper after hopping out of his alliance was the one to vote with dusted. I can only assume that Nancy was the swing vote here and I think her Murray positively had the most covert partnership of this entire season and they stick with it and that she she votes with them okay well. I'm excited here. I Love Dustin Henderson of course but here we are at a final five. This isn't a kids game Mike Bloom. None of these kids are eligible for the win. We've got three teenagers and two eight adults who are still in the running here. The Alexi tribe is about to go from five to four. Yes everyone here can and drive so I can only assume that it car is going to come with the price. That's the only reason why they held off on that. So as to mention before Murray and Nancy are together Hopper Nancy I have a little bit of like leftover loyalty from that big all the lions. The remnants of the super trouper sands hopper are still together getting to our immunity challenge here Barb Unity Barb powerful powerful powerful resurrection looks good good on you. Barb guaranteed a spot at that final four all too important fire making challenge Hashtag barbaric as she is not allowing airing all right. Let's get to barrier looks like Josh. Another member of the scooper troopers is going to desert so robin no pun intended Robin is going to go to dessert because she can't get. She can't get enough ice cream out here on the island. ooh I do not feel good about robin becoming becoming a free agent here. Maybe she wants to try to become a swing vote much like Nancy did but this leaves Murray and a very well connected spa now he's connected with barb and he's connected with Nancy. I can only assume that one of Robin or hopper is GonNa go here. Okay well. Let's find out how this is going to shake at the final five tribal council with these spectacular players all of them in the running for a defeat here. Let's find out how this is going to go. First vote. Well actually actually Murray is going to play the idol on himself makes sense last time to play the idol. He's not gonNA take it home with a souvenir especially being things. These things are bugged yes. He doesn't want that in his apartment. I Vote Murray Does Not Count Second Vote D- Robin Third Vote Rob Fourth Vote Hopper Okay we could face a two to one tie vote here and we do wow wow okay a tie at the final five. This is interesting. I'm sad I don't Wanna see either of these. Two people go. I know these two have had a profound impact in the game but it's been kind of Teflon. He's had the bulletproof vest for for much of the game that he got from Harney you yes robin has played a balls out game a bolt game from the gate leaving the alliance at times and still being okay but she's just left the alliance and will that cost her. Let's find out all right so we're GONNA have three people voting here. Barb Murray and Nancy are going to be the only three votes the matter one of them will definitely go because there are three votes here. Let's find out what happens. I Vote Robin <hes> second vote hopper for tied. This is going to be it. The next player voted out of survivor Hawkins Jim Hopper you see a blinding flash at JIM hoppers no longer are there except he's on the jury bench yeah. He's not in the upside down. He's not in Russia is still here but he has no shot at a million dollars. As this becomes Murray's absolute dream surrounded surrounded by Barb Robin God this is terrible canceled out for this. I hear he is so close to the final three scenario of his dreams so let's take a look what happened here so it looks like barb and Murray were the ones to force the tie here. Hopper and Nancy voted for Robin Robin true to her free agent nature through a vote ow four Murray which nullified I I unintentionally saving herself there because I think she was sketched out by pervy more Murray which is the only one who sees it other than hopper hopper hopper was trying to take the biggest threat and the game yeah so good on you hopper. You fought valiantly like you always do. We are now facing a final four here of Barb Murray Nancy and Robin Murray's begrudging angels and we'll see how we face the new final four your round in modern survivor looks like we have you know Murray's well-connected. He has a couple of partnerships. It doesn't really matter because it was not young. He's fine. He's probably making it to the final travel council unless he gets burned out on fire all right. Let's go to the final immunity challenge here where barb third immunity win barbeque guaranteed a spot in the final tribal council Josh she doesn't know how to swim but those land challenges those balance beams she can keep keep those blocks up Yep Barbas here for justice. She will not be content unless she takes home the win. She's at least going to be guaranteed a shot at redemption in front of so many people who have I've been in the upside down and in so many ways barb is their champion somebody who has been in the upside down prior to this game congratulations to bar very well deserved she has clawed her way up through so much losing her the closest ally to now be facing the Jerry. Let's see what happens with these other three so barb is going to take Murray to the final three so far Mary. You're going to be sitting there. The finals tells the final spot is either going to be going to Nancy or Robin. Nancy wins the fire making challenge. I believe there was some gunpowder involves as you just shot it and a spark lit up after a long breath hard fought battle here robin becomes the final member of our Jerry here. Josh Robin was a challenge bees choose a strategic powerhouse. She was a survivor through and through but when it came to fire it's no surprise that the ice cream scooper melted away in on a lot of candles lit at skips Ahoy so not a lot of experience there especially just a you know a Nancy tends to she. She has a sparky personality as it is. A very has some incendiary wit so Rama did not stand a chance here. We Are Josh Final Three Barb Holland Murray Bauman Nancy whaler. Let's let's talk to these players first off best friends Barbara Nancy somehow somehow made it here together yeah. I think that's been under reported story and Nancy being a reporter. You would have thought that she would have spoken about this. I'm pretty sure J._C.. Talked her out of it on the after show. We're not going to publish this Nancy's also been under edited all season long as retribution for her antics at the Hawkins Paper Nancy Nancy kind of just tucked under everybody's weighing didn't really do too much. She did vote out her own mother and other than brother so the so if people are respecting that kind of killer instinct she may have a shot here. She may also have shot because she will point her firearm at all the members of the jury it's safe you do not both able shoot so you're GonNa get in the final act here so that could be working in Nancy's favor. Barb has a hell of a story. She died dude. She died she was dead bar wasn't alive live and then barb came back to life improbably and really found herself out here and survivor Hawkins really came alive out here especially in the end with some crucial challenge wins got to imagine Murray's got no chance a but just being here next to these fine young individuals. He's already the winner what's better than a million dollars a million dollars and some ass it is it is it is what he has. He has lifted that line from survivor history. I would also say that Murray I think he over-rates his chances with the jury because he says I'm going to water it down. You know I don't want my arguments to to be able to be tune bombastic so I'm GonNa really try to play down all the things that I did but for what it's worth worth Murray held the most power for this endgame you know he had tight relationship with both barb and Nancy to the point where he pretty much saw a spot for himself in the finals he found to idols as well so it depends on what this jury values and just as a reminder this jury three is made up of Billy Hargrove dust in Henderson Eleven Erica Sinclair Hopper Jonathan Pires our first boot Joyce buyers Karen Wheeler Max Mayfield Mike Wheeler Dr Robin Steve Harrington the Damore Gannon and will buyers Mike Gloom. It's not impossible that will get some kind of tie way of four teamwork jury that you could you could see a seven seven forcing the third place finisher to become the final a five five four. Perhaps six to if you will but let's let's played some guesses out here right now John. It's not even worth trying to guess how brand that steel is going to have. These are gonNA come back again when I'll say this. I think we're about to get justice for barb. Okay if so or he writes itself lock in a winner pick. I'm GONNA go <music>. I'm going to go with Nancy. I feel like while she is faded to finish in the Julie spot of a third place no vote finalist. I feel like they have a little bit of a stranger things. This is about the tweets about the nerds. It's about the underdogs dogs in this game. Nancy has been the ultimate underdog so I feel like they have to acknowledge that watch now Murray win and both of us be entirely wrong. Okay all right. Shall we get to the vote. Let's get to the votes and it's the reveal they've come back from Hawkins and they're now in Chicago. They're they're in Russia for the revelation of the vote and the winner of survivor Hawkins. Let's count through the votes. I vote vote is barb. Okay second vote truly risk a caller Julie just for fun. No Julie Third Vote Murray tied one vote apiece eleven votes left Fourth Vote Note Nancy. We have to vote Murray two votes Murray two votes Nancy one vote barb two votes barb votes Murray two votes Nancy read. That's one more to Nancy three votes. Nancy two votes barb two votes Murray Murray Three Votes Murray two votes barb revotes Nancy Bar revotes odes barb by three votes ditsy Nancy four votes nancy three boats barb three votes Murray four wow eleven vote it probably from eleven Murray Okay Murray four votes Nancy three votes barb three boats left par four roads Barve four votes vary four votes nancy this this is crazy. This is so close. This is unbelievably close. We have two votes left here. Thirteenth vote for Murray. We have five votes Murray or votes barb four votes Nancy. Here's what's going to happen happened. We have one more vote here in the earn. If it's for Murray it then he's the winner only Murray a winner. If it's Nancy or barb then we're going to have a tie and I'm not sure what brain steel dozen that case considering that we have four people people who voted for a third placer. Let's see what happens. Barb Barb gets oh two times between a dead person pervert this. The Lord is a Weird Time High N._C.. is going to be the arbiter of the fates here. Okay so you gotta give it to bar because their best friend but who was nancy closer Sir with Josh God she was tight myrtle winner of survivor Hawkins. What is Ed? I love this. I love the chaos was able to the most paranoid person in the game navigated the rough waters in his shorts to be able to win the title. I'm nick cashing in on the close relationship on this game much like Laurel cast that vote for Wendell it was Nancy who determined that her clothes Powell Murray was GonNa win this and Burr and Barbara's dead all over again justice justice for barb chance all over the survivor Hawkins read it page horrible. Nancy is chased out of town. She was the survivor Hawkins superfan beforehand. She will never ever be accepted in the community again. The people were so cruel to her. It's just a disastrous. Let's figure out what the hell happened here. Oh my God okay so billy voted for Murray makes sense yeah perverts backing each other's play Dustin votes for Nancy Jewelry. He still appreciated her dancing with him. At the snowball eleven votes for bar make sense. They were each other's. BETHEL's there are friends. improbably Erica votes for barbed thinks it's pretty cool that someone dead came back to life hopper votes for Murray mud bud his his mud but his boat covered in mud written in mud. Jonathan buyers voting for Murray out of nowhere. I don't even think Jonathan knew her Murray worth because I'm pretty sure also the final three were all members of the O.. G. Owens tribe so Jonathan New did not know any of them. He just threw a vote towards Murray remembered those fond memories of getting together with his girlfriend for the first time in her house. Thanks for getting me to have sex by the way Murray is GonNa upgrade a palatial mansion now after winning a million in dollars here Joyce is going to vote for Nancy. They did have a bit of a connection before her boot carrying wheelers gonNA vote for Murray. I don't want to talk about why yes Max is going to vote for Murray that makes no sense. I would figured that she would vote for sure. I think her in Jonathan sort of maybe stuck together because they're both pre murders who didn't really know Murray. Mike Wheeler is going to vote for Barb Not GonNa vote for his sister. I think a little bitter about hair. He's just he's definitely upset about it. Robin vote for Nancy Julius respect vote. He beat her at fire making Steve also going to vote for Nancy hoping that they can rekindle their romance and he can he can and get a little bit of that million dollars the DEMOC Oregon I think this is the headline of the finale is that the dental votes for Barb Justice for barb the demagogue and felt bad for what it did to barb votes for Barb and will the wise his gets it wrong votes for barb. Wow so we had by the final vote with Nancy's vote included fifteen votes six to five to four Josh unbelievable all all right. Let's see who wins the fan favorite award who robin giving money I and monitors Mike Wheeler by being like don't don't kowtow to my votes honey. You were the villain get it to robin in a true Rick. Devon's fashion hard fought battle. I thought it might have been eleven at one point but I feel like eleven went a few episodes ago. That Robin has the more recency bias so good on Robin. She did not make it to the finals there but she does get a consolation prize here unbelievable might bloom Ed Murray Bowman our champion here in survivor Hawkins and to apply this to stranger things three more directly Murray was a source of great amusement over the course of the eight episodes of stranger things three. I do believe that you and I would agree robin as an M._v._p.. Of the season both survivor and stranger things so that's very fitting ultimately fitting that Barbara who did not appear or was mentioned mentioned in season three of stranger things was not a contender to win in the end. We let's say we had two people three people vote out their MOMS wail may one of the dumbest moves in survivor history by leaving the alliance and getting being voted out eleven makes the boldest moves in survivor history by drawing poster only for him Turkey flowing those votes to the side we had Dustin Henderson voted out Danine coming back only to get voted out again Erica Sinclair by far the star upside down fans. You're saying the upside down twist was not the best but at least we got ten more episodes of Erica Sinclair in never see it again exactly so that's GonNa do it adhere. Let's go into some other statistics here. Barb and Robin are the undefeated challenge victories here actually Barbe- Nancy and Robin each one two immunity challenges here <hes> bar huge vote magnet along along with eleven she was able to survive so much and Murray was are resonant idle finder with two Josh and the fewest votes the second fewest votes of the season. I think they admired that he was able to slip under the radar. He also avoided some votes against himself but I think the fact that he was able to put himself up pretty good position the round where he was never really the target so I think that is commendable. I think that as well the optics Marie winning are in great. I I do commend him for the game that he played Jordan. All God all right well that was crazy. Survivor Hawkins officially in the books Mike Bloom. We got to wrap up this feedback show because I have to pee so badly. I have to pee very badly. This is the longest podcast in post show recaps history. I did do called a never ending podcast the ass I did some I did some looking I looked back at our fast and furious podcast Mike which which clocked in at around three hours and fifty minutes maybe three hours forty five minutes. That is the closest competitor editor here to a podcast that is closing in on four twenty appropriately. It feels like we got to wrap up. This is not the this would be a very fitting place to end our stranger things happenings <hes> but we do have some more podcasts in the hopper. If you will in the stranger things round coming next Mike. We've got a podcast coming next week about a movie on networks starring a a stranger things star. We don't know what's happened to hopper but we do know with David harbors next available project is and it's the Netflix movie called get ready for this frankensteins monsters monster Frankenstein which is which is a movie that Mike and I are going to watch. It's on Netflix right now. It's about a half hour long so basically an eighth of the length of this podcast is so it will you could watch watch the movie many many times and still not have watched it as much as you have listened to this podcast. We want to get your feedback for that podcast. Send it our way post. Show recaps dot com slash feedback is feedback backward. You can also tweet US directly. I am at round Howard. Mike is at a Mike Bloom type. Please also tweet our post show recaps account that is very helpful as we are collating your feedback so please tweet at post show recaps directly after that podcasts were still going to have some more shenanigans as we are as Mike and we're extending some time in the upside down while we get our ducks in a row for a new podcast that we are going to be watching in August. It's not quite one hundred eight different stranger things one offs Mike but maybe more than is than is reasonable or advise. I cannot polar bear it to wait until we are able to get into this coverage Josh at the main feed of poster recaps. It's worth your while. Please subscribe however you subscribe to podcasts. We have a bunch of other shows happening right now. Big little lies just aired its season two finale and we fox and I are wrapping that up with a finale recap hat plus. We will have a feedback show of our own coming your way in just a little while and then emily and I we're going to be moving onto the next show that will succeed big little lies plus. We've got a little bit of Walking Dead Bonus Coverage with Jessica lease. He's coming your way soon. There's a lion king movie review in your feet right now from Rochester Nino and Zach Brooks. It's all happening so please subscribe to PLO show recaps on your platform of choice and if you WanNa make sure you don't miss any stranger things things post show recaps CCAPS dot com slash stranger things is still a worthy fee to subscribe to your ratings your reviews all of that greatly appreciated Mike Bloom. What else do you have going on so I am covering survivor South Africa with Shannon Gates which I I think Josh? Maybe we'll stop by for a hot. I've heard I've heard that that may that may indeed occur. I'm also doing some intermittent coverage of this big brother season together habitually with Liana Boris for the rha being be as well. It's covering bring it for Parade Magazine Weekly Exit Presser for into some reality T._v.. If this survivor coverage has white you're whistle a bit be sure to check that out because that is still going well through the summer okay. We've got a lot going on in both our necks of the woods more podcasts coming your way. Thank you for enduring all of this ridiculousness. If you did indeed endure the ridiculousness Mike this was absurd fantastic. I'm still thinking back to remember when Joyce buyers.

Jonathan Mike Bob Alexi Barb Survivor Hawkins TA Jonathan Josh Wait Ler Russia Catherine Valentine Jonathan Nancy Daddy Taryn David Harbour Jim Hopper Jack Bauer US Erica Joyce Hopper Kiefer Sutherland twitter Dustin David Harbour