18 Episode results for "Mcnab"

Snake Oilers 11 part 1: MongoDB's new encryption plus AlphaSOC and SecureStack

Risky Business

37:48 min | 1 year ago

Snake Oilers 11 part 1: MongoDB's new encryption plus AlphaSOC and SecureStack

"Hi everyone and welcome to this special snake. Oil Edition of the risky business podcast. My Name's Patrick Grains snake. Oil is I wholly sponsored. Podcast WE DO here at risk off his way of indoors. Come onto the show to pitch. They're wonderful wonderful magical snake oil to you the listeners and yeah we basically do this with six vendors twice a year and we split h edition into two parts side here from three vendors to and from three vendors next week or the week off something on fat sorry in today's podcast be hearing from Mongo DB very interesting one that actually Alpha sock and secure Stack Alpha sock. Make a network Traffic analytics engine. I guess but they do some other more sophisticated stuff these days. You hear all about that Secure Stack. Make a cloud security tools for developers Managing resources cloud resources for developers. But yeah we're GONNA kick things off with our interview with Ken. Wash from Mongo. Db and Mongo DB has released a new encryption feature A bunch of you compliance heavy for out there. You're gonNA find a really interesting and valuable. Imagine just some generally security conscious People among you will find this interesting as well start. Basically what they've done is they've built tools to allow you to encrypt sensitive fields in your databases So if you know God forbid someone were to access your database. Somehow they wouldn't be able to just dump the whole thing and get access to sensitive information and sure if someone can pop show on your like you know if this is hooked up to a web application if someone POPs up observer. Yeah they're still going to be able to access that information but then you're in a position to actually introduce some extra controls like query limits for certain things So it's a step forward it's a meaningful step forward. So Ken what he worked on this feature. He joined me to talk about it and he started off by explaining why you don't want to encrypt every single field in a database. His explaining why enjoy. It's not intended to encrypt everything. Because there's some things where you need the database to do a better job if if you said give me every I dunno sales that happened within five kilometers of this coffee shop the base would have to have the GEO location clear text and it would have to have the the clear text of everything around it within five kilometers. I G locations one of the strict ones where it's really hard to do encrypted search in any meaningful way so what this allows you to do is say just those fields that are sensitive. And you can. You can just tag. Every single field in the entire database and say these are all encrypted but typically what people would do. Is You know customer number Record number You know invoice number things like that customer knives date of birth anything. Pi Right. I mean you can still you fenced Dada base there but just encrypt the right and this is a hard conversation but some that the thing about. Pin's it's it's the link to who you are if I said HIV positive HIV status negative pregnant Positive those are useless data unless they're tied to an actual person otherwise they're just sort of free floating dies if I said bank balance. Twenty seven million. Three hundred seventy five thousand. That Bennett. Self isn't really personally identified data. It's only when it's linked to something else. So there may be scenarios where you wouldn't encrypt financial values. You wouldn't crippling most of the cases you would that there's sometimes where you need clear text to do certain kinds of Sir filters or they like less than greater than that sort of stuff in the case of this right until like for banks. It's very common. They use this thing called Tokens Ation. Which is yeah. It's funny that you mentioned that because as we've been talking about this I'm like a kind of sounds like along the same lines as talking is Asian and we similar. But if you've actually talked to anybody WHO's implemented you know they need to go to a bar and start drinking because it's like. It's so painfully horrible experience. I'd say I've date. I can't risk it. And you had token ization will now. You've got sensitive data in two places you've got the original and you've got this conversion thing that says your social security number which is whatever the value is. Here's the token. I'm going to send that token over here but you just duplicated your sensitive data right now you deal with this third thinks the token ization it has its applications and a lot of the banking world will use it. It's painful though. So if you can make that some of those kind of security properties just kind of work for free like the way that you develop normally run queries. That's a huge win. And and that that that is one of the nice benefits in this well. Yeah so it's I mean it's been a hell of a journey right Mongo. Db Mongo DB has bound up with the headlines. The same is S. three buckets the same as elastic search. And this is what I believe led to you. Launching the managed service the Atlas Service. Where you take care of all of that all of that busy work of making the less work and you know setting reasonable default and all of that sort of stuff. I guess this feature is just an extension of that same trajectory right of taking something that people were misusing and trying to make it better. I think it's an intersection of things. I think I think there's there's none of that but I think there's an certainly when there's some story about You know a big breach if it's just a random person on the Internet who had a- unsecured server sometimes. Yeah we'll we'll actually get a call from a customer like a major fortune five hundred say should we be concerned about this Mongo? Db thing we'll know that was just you know this was a configuration by default if you right now today and for the last like five or six years if you install going to be out of the box. It's it's secure. It's not listening to the public interface. You it's not accessible. The problem is if you can half way go there you open up all of the entire Internet to be able to come and go and and you don't so you sort of change the default configuration half way that you don't set a password or you don't have a web service account or something like that then yeah. That's that's a problem but it will be a problem anything's but the other kind of perfect storm that can lead to this was customers like this is hard we some we customer bank customers do sixty billion dollars a day transactions among. They're like we we do not want to do. We don't WanNa have teams of engineers whose only job is reduced security patches and updates and os updates and all this you know. Keep these clusters running worldwide. Yes we do that but it's painful. It's usually capital capital Capex expenses. So you've got you've got major major major enterprise in that cloud service. I'd say half the more more than half the fortune. Five Hundred Ryan muggy gaming forms I'm kind of hesitant because I'm not sure not that's fine. You don't need to know they know who does it this way. If you have a mobile phone in your pocket you're running along it'd be right now Unless it's like some it's obscure like you know one off thing Banking healthcare the biggest retail You pharmacies insurance gaming like I got the obvious. Let me let me ask my next question. Which is you this. A feature? The new encryption feature was this requested by those type of customers or was this something the Mongo of of its own volition. It sounds like a feature request to me. It sounds like something that a few customers said can build this for us. It was an answer to a problem and the problem was. We're using your systems for lines of business applications for analytics. We like it. It's fast. It's great our plans are risk. People say we can't. It's not you personally. It's not that we don't trust you but we just don't. We can't tolerate the risk profile of putting sensitive information at third already. You or anyone else. So how could we kind of address that and that's where we started? So this was a huge effort. I mean this was one of the biggest engineering investments in the company. This was twenty six engineers over two years. You know on every major platform so its query security. The core engineering all these different language teams. I mean there's a massive. I imagine this would would come back a bit to compliance as well right so this I know. We can't in case some engineer at Amazon. Or whatever Runs Away with the disk right and some of and so if anything. I've kind of learned to be very patient and understanding because some of the scenarios that people will contrive is like it's it's probably pretty far fetched but you still have to kind of go down that path. I had a great chant with with her own me recently on the show where he gets asked often by his customers. Like if we have a canary on network. Can you hack us? And he's like of course I can but so we can all your other providers like why are we having this conversation but you have to be patient right right. I mean I would say is that. Having having looked in depth at the security engineering for the big three cloud providers they are so heads and shoulders above ninety nine percent of the fortune. Five hundred. I'm talking about companies that have spent billions of dollars on security. If you're a little guy it's really hard to keep up. I mean it's just you know you. Just it's very to have the security maturity the visibility the I mean some of the stuff that they're doing With the big three would suppose I mean they're doing custom built Tiki M.'s. Their custom making hardware to assure you know full. You know full supply chain security from Buddha. All the way to the container side. I mean that's doing all sorts of crazy stuff eventually with your own you could rent like FPG IRA's and like there. There is just like nutty stuff happening. on the on the cloud side of things but look let's go back to the encryption features here how how did you actually go about building this because spoiler alert? I already know because we spoke about before. But you implemented this as like. It's totally in line right like when you walk the listeners through how this how this actually works sure so whether you're whether there's an existing application or or you building something new you start with the language right you're you're writing your application some language and so whatever languages there's a driver that connects you know your program framework to the database. We did is. We moved all that encryption logic into the into the drivers so that they'd be a lot of the hard lifting you don't have to understand all of the mechanics of the Amazon. Api for management. You don't have to understand. Always different. Blocked roads encryption. You'd have to you. Don't have twenty seven options of like you know crypto settings and things. We wanted strong You know secure defaults with you know kind of opinionated and also you know. We think we're pretty good at building distributed systems. But we're not like professional cryptography engineers and so one of the things we early on was look. We're going to reach out to people who are experts at breaking databases doing Krypton surge at You know at understanding authenticated encryption and help have them come in and take a look how we're thinking through design as we build it up you know run some audits you know beat it up and then once we actually have the ship platforms whether it's jobbers sharp. Or whatever really just beat the heck out of it and try to find any subtle vulnerability because as you know. It's it's a tiny. Coding error away from just complete undermining encrypted. You know data store really coding. Errors can just make the whole thing. Come TUMBLING DOWN. So we were acutely aware of that and we don't make any claims that this is you know some some the all end all we we try to use boring safe conservative like well established you know nist recognized corruption standards and things like this But the Engineering Challenges. Making this work on you know everything. Ibm Mainframe to a brand new windows. Server to Canada ancient. You know twelve thirteen year. Old Red Hat service. See this is. This is a small business decision because if you can pull that off you become the default because developers again unlock you. Because they can they can take with them between jobs right. Our number one goal was to make developers safer for these sensitive confidence workloads. Just make it easy to use. 'cause THERE'S NO SHORTAGE OF TECHNICAL OPTION. You can get right now and there's you know thousands of encryption. Sdk'S AND PLUG INS and mind but they're all a pain and in general you can't search database so we wanted to kind of make a lot of those things. Go make easy built in First Class citizen and I think we've done a pretty good job. There's always ruined improvement And there's new technologies sort of always around the band. Part of the problem though is when you work with you know enterprise and federal clients and you know big institutions that. They're not interested in bleeding edge. They don't WanNa see the latest. You know you know visit. Five thousand crypto construction. That just came out last week from some academic. They want something that's like well understood well. Recognized well characterized ready boring stable or again if people want more information on this what they google is just Mongo being Christian or is if you go to brand Florida like a name for the feature called client side fill level encryption. The entire cryptographic framework is on get habits all Apache licensed. So you know the whole thing's out there to take a look back tires. We get real short. Hello worlds just like ten lines of code to get up and going you know whether it's in go or python or note or whatever so yeah we love to have people beat it up tried out. I think it was all right. Well I'm going to drop linked into the show notes for this podcast Ken. What has been a real pleasure to chat to you about this. It's something different. I mean often. We're talking about an uprising detection. Response and Prevention Ghia. This is just a interesting concept and I wish you all the best with it. Cheers appreciate thank you. That was Ken. What of Mongo? Db there talking about client side. Field level encryption. Big thanks to Ken for that and big thanks to your Mongo. Db FOR BEING ICE NYC. Let's I have dropped I link into this week's show for those of you who are interested in finding out more about that. But Yeah I mean even if you just Google for Mongo. Db client side field level encryption. You GotTa get the Info you need. You're not gonNA get a page a website about banana distribution and logistics. I think you can find the right stuff onto the next snake oil of today's podcast now and our next guest is someone. I love. Risky business. Listeners would remember hearing on the show before Chris McNab Here's the founder of Alpha. Salk used to be an incident response late at NC group. I think he commun- via the Isaac Path basically. He realized a lot of the workflow he was doing on incident response. Gigs COULD BE AUTOMATED. So he turned that workflow into detection. Basically and so I mean really. This whole thing started with demand. Analytics saw simple tricks like when there's a box on your network connecting regularly to a two week old domain beginning to a two week old the main. You've probably got a problem there. I mean basically. Chris has figured out how to pull all sorts of really high quality signaling out of DNS Dada. I mean that's one thing but like as you're gonNA hear it's broadened out quite a bit these days. It's it's more of a fully-fledged network traffic an analysis engine. It's been broadened out to cover. Ip analytics. That's something we've spoken to Chris about on the show before but now does tell us and http processing user agent processing curb processing and even some important stuff So Yeah Chris McNab. Very Very Smart Guy. Joined me to talk about what Alpha stock has been up to more recently. And here's what he had to say so so yes so years ago now we started just solving an talking with the NS on lyrics Problem flagging a beacon behavior young demands within suspicious. Dod's and doing all kinds of other layered behavioral analytics with DNS That problem has been solved as far as we're concerned for for a number of years now and since then we've we've just extended as you say beyond the NSO now we process Ip Telemetry H. E. Telemetry T. L. S. telemetry. We starts now correlate with. Dhcp looking cobras next and unreligious going with going too slowly but surely work our way through the whole protocol stack eventually ending up with A. Maybe maybe another bureau now endpoint telemetry and then we can marry everything together and really help you know Detection response teams identify. You know infected systems and COMP Incidents with with high high fidelity and and and and high utility. That's really the the point of what we're trying to. We're trying to do so. What is the output of your analysis? Engine actually looked like right because when it's DNS okay. This is a bad demand right. That's one thing well. This is a young domain. Or there are indications that this domain is bad and then that's an indication that you would then feed onwards upwards into a same but you know you're you're broadening it out. Is it still the same idea that this is and this is where it gets really confusing? Because you got your collection agents like Zeke right. Now you've got this analytics engine that you're making and then you've got your same. You're not trying to replace the collection. You're not trying to replace the same. You're trying to sit somewhere in the Middle Anya. And we essentially a good way of thinking of it. Is that we automate. The work that tier two tier three sock analyst would be doing so the engine flags like I said things like beckoning to a young man within a suspicious. Tld or maybe on the ATP side it will flag A weird post Operation To its destination may be combined within the same few minutes with like an Ip look up or some other You sick notes. Storrow really what? What would a good thinking of? It is is what we're trying to do is what we doing is What's amazing that menu work? The way that we do that absolutely we take the telemetry that's collected through through Z. Surata spunk wherever you have the cemetery oil data lake we process telemetry. And then we kick that out in Native E that usage at Jason Formats. But we can also use a CEO. We can ship stuff over of assists log into your Sim an essentially which is generating hyphen alerts. Such as you know. Oh by the way. This machine is now beginning to this. This wacky destination that has a positive virus. Tokyo score and unloaded by the interesting signals. That's that's generally think you want to know about. I'll grant you that you don't need you. Machine learning in that one out right precisely so but but a lot of Osvaldo detection response analytics tools with with the market today that the very dependence on on threat feeds and an indicates lists to provide any kind of context or Generates alert so there we. We just found out or I've I've found post nature doing incident response and forensics and Sauk work now for for years. I've just found that there. Are you know large blind spots and gaps with indicator? Listen feed so you to then apply skype behavioral layering Which actually is tricky problem to solve because lots of the sims a lot of the systems if not all of them as far as I'm concerned that are out there today. The the the customers and enterprise using our reliance on you know threat feeds indicates a lists so that they're brutal With with which is you. You might want to use this Mike so if someone wanted to just get going and trial this thing. They don't have a full seem. Set Up. Like how would you actually go about? Just using the engine. To give you an output you know some of these indicators hopefully the bad boys Wade set this up your great great question so so we have the rubber bones perspective. We haven't agent schooled. Nf Awe which is network flight recorder. That was a trademark that the checkpoint abandoned two thousand five did you. Did you pick up the NFL trademark? How'd you swing that? Would checkpoint abandoned the trademark in two thousand five so we served people haven't been insecurity way too long network flight recorder is the name of basically one of the first ever network? Ids's was marcus. Random involved in that one. I think he was wasn't he so marcus than sold the business. I believe to checkpoint in one thousand nine hundred ninety nine and then they kind of wrote it into their product line. Then you end of life. That's awesome okay anyway. Sorry that was a tangent but you have networks like recorder now. This is your local collection agent. I'm guessing so from the START FOR THE LISTENERS. To help dot com slash offer salk slash. Nfl just open sources is is in you. Pull it down It runs you know. It's just an agent a local agent as you say that runs for Windows Lennox Mac Nfl can then pick up Dayton a number of ways and ship it to us so one of the ways is that some some uses set up is just as as a sniffer. So she's using Lupi Cup and just sniffing data locally so it can run as a sensor it can also run as an agent pickup lochfo. So if you have. Let's say Zeke also ricotta output. Like Zeke like Denniston low convert logger and kind of output like that you can Monitor those falls with NFL and ship them to our API for scoring and then the the alerts will make their way back down through NFL down to file or you can ship them overseas logo heavy on ship them from NF. Aw as I said in in Jason Oh cf format and you and you kind of courses look at the raw jason and use it. We do then have because we run the services a cloud service for for the majority of our customers and uses. We do then have a web console so almost like a synchronised you chip that's limited to US using an F. Aw locally you know within your environment set up and get that shipping that's limited to the office oak analytics engine and then we can set you up with a web console. Ui Element so you can then interact with the with the material. Maybe maybe in twenty years when they let the trademark expire. You can call it back story mostly. So that's the way that you can do it kind of Cheaply and chiefly if you do have spunk Our preferred option is to just drop our spunk up into your environments in and set that up with which is like a tool three minute exercise. Which ends does all of the above natively within spunk. So that's kind of pretty seventy percents of our customers. US. That's spunk. Actually has this really vibrant marketplace is full of APPS whose sole goal is to make spunk. Actually usable talk doing this right. So you know all of these areas that you've expanded into your. We're talking about less processing. You use her agent processing and you know you're looking at curb. Ross events I believe queries Coming up as well fake endpoint stuff like what's yielding the most interesting results from your perspective. When you start feeding stuff into your Indiana lyrics engine. Dns has always been great for us just because of the depth of off processing that we have there in that we've extended over you know six seven years now so if you take. Let's say in a beacon ing too young demane within a suspicious tld that's unique to a customer environments for for a competing or arrival products to produce that results would require like a big relief factor of that code and telling it on its head because telling it upside down because it is not a lot of these other tools in order to even flag. Young Maine's they aw. Dependence on newly observed domain feeds and material coming in in order to make those make those decisions. So one of the dike. Ns has always been great for us in an improvised the biggest bang for the buck. So if any of the telemetry types you know you have to pick one to go with a DNS for sure will give you the biggest bank this. This is kind of a kind of reminds me of the you know the whole concept of putting the rocks in the jar and the jazz full but then you can pull the smaller rocks into the jar and then you know smaller and smaller until you down to sand and then dust in it. Sounds like what you're saying the DNS analytics represent the big rocks and one of one of my favorite exercises. If you look at twitter account you offer on twitter One of the things that I'm always doing is looking at live indicators and research the MAUI researchers at doing around trick bolts and Ta Five Oh five and ABC thirty-three and these other groups and real. Time I'm then throwing all his indicators into the Atlantic Stack to see whether the engine negativity out of the box you know on the fly without she generates alerts an influx those campaigns and consistently the system the just using host names and guest lemon tree. The system is is capable of flagging sophisticated threat groups actors and this is the reason that we love having you back. Chris is because you've actually done something that works. It's not rocket science. It doesn't use machine learning at doesn't have tigers in its marketing but it actually works and it's just based on the sort of work for you do when you when you try and as a as a human operator figure out if a domain is good or bad because it's not that can heart. Is it exactly and we have. What one if one of the new classifies we have in the stack is Is imposter detection so we do. Have we have a bit of AMMO and measurements that we're doing but I'm guessing you catch the bulk of it with the simple stuff right. Absolute absolutely absolutely but the the the importance of this section for example then flag trademarks and An labels within much larger string so if an actor sets up in a sharp point dash secure Calm the engine within recognize that as a lucky imposter than of also. Maybe it's a young main with an upgraded again. If it's may be doing some be coming off. The pattern is weird or unique to a customer with an upgraded further. So we just PRA- practically Patrick. We get great results with the staff that we have in place Now that we have to see us the http processing we can do a lot more interesting stuff without identifying outliers. You Know Joe Three An ESA SELF-SUFFICIENT HASHES. The may be unique or we haven't seen before on ubiquitous. It's all of the you know the environments of the that were protecting our Chris McNab. I'll drop some links into the Shire. Basically you can self prevision a key. If you WANNA get going with this and give it a go and I would heartily recommend you do. Because why wouldn't you very easy to set up Very easy to get going with Alpha and got to say I have never seen a vendor or don't with endo that has as good documentation as you. Chris and I know that you would have put a lot of work into that. And it's more right there on the geared hub. Thank you so much for joining us on the show to update us on on where you're at and we'll look forward to doing it again probably next year. Of course that was Chris McNab. Big thanks to him for that. You can check out. Alpha Sock Alpha SOCK DOT COM spelled of course L. P. H. A. S. C. dot com. I time for our final snake. Oil is segment for the day. Now and we're talking to Paul. Mccarty of secure stack. Secure Stack is an Australia. Based Company. Twice a year the Australian information security industry body ost cyber nominates one of the companies. It works with to participate in a snake oil as podcast and yet this time they nominated secure stack and basically the idea behind secure stack is to help develop his spin up secure by default cloud resources and to give them the ability to manage all of those cloud resources as the developments and as they businesses scale. Paul McCartney join me for this interview and started off by telling me who this is four and this is secure stack is apparently for developers and yeah started off by telling me what it is developers currently doing that. They're trying to put a stop to his what he had to say. Traditionally juries are going on building something a special snowflake on the spot that they need right Al Right. Then it doesn't have any standardisation doesn't have any repeatability. It's not like that. Last one they built so first and foremost we give them the ability to build the same secure thing that same secure unit every single time plus all the additional security benefits and scale do it benefits. We put on top of that. Okay so when you talk about building secure units. What does that look like? Is that doing some basic highest hardening like the talk us through what you would do an individual. I think we we have an idea in. Secure sack of a abstracted workload we call it a cloud to the product and that includes I a hardened operating system either Olympics or windows hard numbering system we then have an integration layer that applies security controls agents applications user access to those instances then. We've wrapped around that workload any cloud native security that you need to be included security groups. I am so and so forth. And that then abstracted workload you can deploy anywhere you want to. So what people typically using this for right. What's the problem that they're solving with? With secure tech developers there are metric of success is how quickly they can deploy features right there. Metric of success is not how scalable or secure things that they're delivering our right and that's what I really wanted to address was accused i. I wanted to build a platform that said. Hey listen we can give you scale you give you security and we can give it to you in a very easy to consume way. So I mean you talk about stopping sprawl right But you know what you've mostly told me now is that you know you can make these things reproducible and scalable which tells me that you can spin up basically limitless instances of like how is that. How is that helping with sprawl? Yeah well first and foremost part of sprawl is the diff between the different yet. So sprawl is effectively. How I manage all these instances across a disparate environment. Maybe if they're all in a one percent difference across thousands of instances that's a lot of what we do first and foremost as we make sure that every single one of those instances looks the same is repeatable and you can then manage security and scale ability across those the same and that's an important thing right when they all look the same they have our immigration layer Inside them we can then apply security controls across all of them in the same man. So when you say your integration layer what is it? It's combination of endpoint configuration management. As well as some really really deep. Api work that. We've done with the Cleveland providers and also for that matter. Vm. Ware an open. Step two as well. So essentially what you're talking about this an agent that you can deploy on these workloads and use that agent to manage them through your console. Essentially that's the product. They're well we do. We do have an agent but we can run agents. Motoo as well for rebel for example like some of our customers in the states bought us because they had large auto scaling environments right. The point Asian in those environments isn't necessarily realistic right. So what we did early on. We wanted to say we want to be able to apply our technology for those auto scaling environments. Just like we can for for the other type environments right so we support an agent but we can run as well and what you know what? What's the sort of stuff that you can do with an agent that you can't do agent lists in your case because I imagine you would be some stuff you know you're just not going to be able to? Yeah it's the typical stuff. Volunteers monitoring a ps the usual kind of stuff. But for example. There's a bunch of things that we used to do Using agent that we no longer do so as we move towards more. Api centric model at secure stack a lot of things we used to do with agent. We don't do anymore so for example user access we actually now create that through our native. Api calls rather than using eight. Yeah I mean that makes sense to have a blend of the two right and I'm guessing that yeah. What does the customer yet? They're going to get some sort of control panel. I mean you know. We're seeing these new businesses like yours pop up and it's basically see panel for twenty twenty. Don't take that the wrong way because we know it's not going to be as awful as a panel but I mean that's that's essentially way companies like yours sitting isn't it. You're the panel. Well Yeah I mean. I can't speak to those kinds of things. We're a lot more than that. So we have integration into the cloud providers end the private cloud providers like I said via an open stack but beyond that we have technology including a host based firewall security groups that we can manage from the same policy built into our platform to as well so There's a lot more than just Jesse Panel and just about spinning up the resources. It's about having some sort of control on observability onto them as well. I know everytime showed a customer. They've got sure they have sure. We addressed the Greenfield but they also have thousands and thousands of Brownfield address. And we need to be able to manage those. Who had it? How do you do that right when a customer calls you in and they've already got an environment that some quite big? I mean what does it? What does it look like trying to get you into that environment? Do you just get provisioned with some fairly powerful access keys. And then you know your software goes in herds. All of these instances and analyze them. Somehow I mean how do you? How do you even stop? Yeah no that's actually not. How usually start a hell? We end up so after we built trust with a customer. That's where we you know we end up. We start out out by actually getting read only access to the US for example made up. Yes we use the security audit policy. And basically what we do is we're going scanned the instances and the ATS accounts involved and find security gaps. We identify security gaps in security gaps. Do you mean so. For example if basically every web application or every applications essentially it's the components there in right so it's Diaz it servers. It's I'm it's all kinds of stuff right. So the great thing about US having visibility at the cloud native layer as well as at the operating system endpoint layer as we can see all that stuff right so we can see for example. Hey you know. Firewall Wide Open on the endpoint. But Hey is security. Group is blocking us. Let's now match the firewall on the endpoint to security group? Or I'm way to somebody sticks Stuck a bunch of Asterix in the eye on policy. Let's let's address that. What is the real? What is the real requirements for this particular application right? So that's one of the things had having that visibility at the cloud native layer which base which is very unique right because most most applications kind of concentrate on either end point management or cloud native. Cspan kind of stuff. We do both okay. That makes sense and you know where. Where is this stuff proving popular? I mean we spoke a little bit before we hit record. And you were telling me that. This is a popular in sort of scaling and Medium-sized business. It is we. We're finding a lot of success with scallops. In larger startups organizations that are developer driven. Like one of our customers for example has forty developers in zero ops zero security people. Right this common. This is common for starks scallops so for those organizations that that's a good thing I'm not saying I'm not saying I'm not going to disagree with you. But that's the real. We HAVE NO OBSTACLE. They have no security people so they have they have two or three developers that have taken over. Aws account up and they're just trying to get by right so what we do. Is WE GIVE THEM THIS? Ability to embed security across the disparate number of services in aws and inside of the compute environment really easily. Really really use me. Paul McCartney thank you very much for joining us on risky base. Good chat what you're doing over there. It's accused at nor is made. Thanks for having me. That was Paul McCartney off secure. Stack the big. Thanks to him for that you can check them out at secure stack dot com. There are links to everything we talked about in the show. Notes this podcast. But yeah that is it for part one of this edition of snake oils back next week with a weekly news edition of the podcast. But until then I've been Patrick Thankfully

Chris McNab Alpha Ken US Paul McCartney Zeke Aws engineer Nfl Al Right Google Pin Self Bennett Cspan Ibm
Snake Oilers 9 part 1: The best Snake Oilers edition we've ever run

Risky Business

47:30 min | 2 years ago

Snake Oilers 9 part 1: The best Snake Oilers edition we've ever run

"Hi, everyone and welcome to this. The best edition of the snake oil is podcast series. We have ever done here at risky B's, h cured. My name is Patrick gray. And over the next forty five minutes. We'll sorry you're gonna hear about three different technology companies offering various products, at least one of the three is going to be very useful to you in your organization, which one, of course, depends on the job that you do in the organization that you work in. This isn't the regular weekly risky business. News podcast species nyc where we talk tech with van does the obvious. Disclaimer applies he everyone you hear on snake oil is paid to be here. But believe me when I say, this is actually the best collection of tech. We've ever had in one of these Nyquil as podcast, or at least like the most useful tech. I will be hearing from Siham d a new company they might kill a software for Lennox that lets you lockdown account actions not permissions act. Do all the default and service accounts that you have to run on your Lennox fleet. Terrify you well, this is a solution for that. And there's a visibility component to a lot of people who are dealing with Diane links plate issues. They're gonna love him d-, then we'll be hearing from alpha sock when we lost to them. I would just doing Demane based analytics for companies, but they've expanded their tech and now offer IP based and Haiti p request by Santa lyrics as well. You can deploy them as a split up or who to the API any other. Why you want they are offering free trials? But even when you paying for the service, it's actually pretty affordable. The Brian behind a sock is Chris McNab who used to run incident response at Isaac partners. Then later NCC group he's seen how the planes crash into the mountains, folks. And he has created a product that performs eminently sensible analysis in near real time on your traffic and metadata to alert you to badness. I don't miss that. One. And then finally, we'll be hearing from nucleus. This is a new company, and if your job is managing vulnerabilities involved scanning in your than straight up just like skip. Now skip right now to the nucleus interview. They have created a web. And essentially what it does is normalizes vulnerability scanning information, it'll take outputs from snick rapid seven check mocks net. Spock open vest twist, lock fortify burp, suite Nisus, Accu necks and others. It Lynn gist. All of that information, normalize it into a single panic loss. God, I nearly chart saying that. But then you can Plum those alerts through to the right people through a multitude of different ticketing systems. You can juror it you can slack at whatever you want. So, you know, right straight up if you Avante manager, and you're stuck in the seventh layer of share point or spread shape vulnerability management. Hell this is a solution to your problems, you will weep salty tears of relief and joy when you hear Scott Kufa. Later on telling us all about nucleus, and they're off retrials viable of that one as well. But first up we are going to hear from Jack king over at C M d. I've gotten to know Jake a little over the last few years. He's a listener of the podcast. I he's also in a stray leeann who's based in Canada. And he is the co founder of a company called CNBC MD is a Lennox security tool that is designed to better secure links fleets innocence, what the tool does is twofold, first up at provides excellent visibility into account actions. What accounts doing what you'll in accounts doing? And then it gives you the power to actually restrict what accounts can do it can even restrict brute right now as a lot of people running cloud based infrastructure already know, sometimes he kind of lumped with some high privilege accounts that you conscious nuke off your boxes, but with this you can look those accounts down, and as you lots of customers of finding novel ways to apply this tech. Jags got a really good example in here around far will rule changes Sam days just hike in fifteen million dollars from Google ventures. And it is my personal belief that they are on the fast track to somewhere. So here's AMD co-founded. Jake king talking about the day. We started to look at some of the problems associated with authentication authorization Linic systems decided to take a bit of a different approach. It saying how could lockdown records in cloud in data, we focused on real problems when it came to securing Lennox in that a lot of the controls that are out there today were little bit limiting we built an agent, which is deployed in pretty lightweight sense and focused on the ability to make that easy to control easy to understand the security teams operations teams in front of mentally the technologies built in a in a pretty short stint with come to market. Pretty recently announcing some great funding news as well. So you built an agent with the with the purpose of securing Lennox. But like what does that mean? What is your age do and what are these specific problems that you're trying to solve? Yeah. We we started to take a look at how people defending Lennox systems and a lot of the time it came down to implement. Eating access controls to the heist. It self so authorization was a was a bit of a second bullet. We like to think of of indication being where a lot of company stop when it comes to two point access deflates seventy they have in cloud. And when we started to take a bit of a deeper look at the problems that were would being faced by security teams. Let at the time it came down to attribution of people's activity or chronic gate, very sensitive actions on systems and always boil down to humans accessing flights. So we started by implementing a really flight recording technology, where we really clear picture of what was going on with user initiated sessions Lennox and then talk a bit of a different approach to try to control activity by not just looking at the log into the system being the only point of within occasion authorization, but looking at the commands in executions themselves to being able to engine like if this that to the command line, if we see an execution that sensitive we. Can I ask a question about that execution before we allow it to a really simple example is tying something like joy to adult unlock from the vault hash product, something that people using new technology today, and you can even like totally bottleneck lex anything suit? Right. Yes. So we we sit in a place in the system that allows us to control even read executions. And it gives us a really flexible approach to how we look down the workload. So for example. A lot of cloud, deployed instances that run pretty industry standard variance of Lennox are gonna come preloaded with some shed account. So she had access, you know, your Ubuntu use Ubuntu Boyd AWS EC to use a deployed into their EC two Lennox AM is and we wanted to think about ways to control access because they have very privileged access to the system. So the technology allows you to constrain even routes from performing executions. And it's it's built into the diamond in such a way that allows us to control that on the fly. So you can. Change the policies even when people logged into sessions without forcing them to log out, log back in new commissions or even recent systems. So it doesn't require any kind of high friction on that front. So fundamentally what we're talking about. Here is an agent that allows individual tasks and commands to be authorized and you've built like an authorization layer, in addition to typical like user account permissions. That's exactly right. So we can old bent, but native the permissions ev- already configured natively within Elesse and actually add extent on top of them with the tools that the Democrats the Democrats engineers in your environment going to be using ready. So any the standard what communication tools like slack can be leveraged to notify about sensitive events or even authorized to events was something like joy or even coach Huggins being used to to actually authorise very specific executions selves. I even saw a you had like a s app. Don't you wear? You can actually. Pipe. Yes. Nor do Suda requests like on your phone or have you been that? We've actually done it to rejoice. So we do some really interesting integrations with joy application right now. And it involves creative thinking about how easy they're API. So we've got a really great example of trigger that a lot of clients today. Webuye we can actually send a notification to these logged into the system request them for, you know, for proven to run say pseudo or a pseudo s use session through July. We do that with all of joys existing weapons as well. So if you've already deployed DOT environment in using those tokens, maybe with something like lived, we can extend a lot of that functionality into the commands of self and sometimes actually replace the joy agent itself. Log into the system we can make it pretty flexible if you've got some constraints around appoint pan modules or paramedics on the system that can sometimes be a little bit hard to do in hot manage in the long run. We've talked about what you do. You know, why do we wanna do this? Right. It seems like a fairly simple function. You know, just from wrapping your head around at point of view. But one of the problems that it actually solves really stick leads starts by providing that that flight recorder capability for a lot of companies in the first place. So a lot of companies will come in, you know, speak putting that out like with cease, log sort of style or how we can do it in a couple of different ways. We've got a user interface that we just fly session dater and commander at self in really fine granularity even more so than kind of tools audit take control, but a pretty lightweight volume. But we we have to console, but we also kind of integrate it with different services like GPS buckets is three stories so you can pull it into something like spunk pretty easily. And we let you attain that data forever as as long as you want to in urine buckets at console has the ability to Seth as the STA, and it's providing a hybrid control sevice anything you can see with console you can actually control, and that's really where a lot of the. The control starts to come into play for companies we work with today. If had a really hard time trying to manage all of these different solutions around who's doing what? And how they doing it. And why are they doing it? We can provide the answers to who want why. And then provide the control surface to actually control win. They're allowed to do it that also like an alternative directory is that how it works. You handle the provisioning and whatnot. Now, we don't handle any provisioning we tend to find that. There's so many different ways that people are already acting exiting these fleets sevices. So this tends to be kind of shouting into a very loud room already. When we looked at you know, how counts a provision them. Most cloud leads a lot of people alleging the cloud service providers ability to deploy this accounts during strap that strap process, we're actually finding also a lot of companies are trying to minimize the amount of accounts that have access to very sensitive environments, and they offering back to in a pretty specific. Environment specific accounts, they'll use to to maintain the systems we look at the existing accounts on the host already and provide that controls has Foley. The power really comes into the fact that if you are falling some maybe not so best practices bad practices when it comes to account situation or count management. We can really help you out and bring things like attribution of sessions, even three shed accounts in a couple of minutes with deployment. It's it's not rocket science in. It's it's it's pretty simple. So walk me through that walk me through that until me who the ideal customers for you, like what is the situation that they have to be in with I decide my God, I need this 'cause I can guarantee you there's going to be some of them. Yeah. You know, there's there's a lot of a lot of the organizations withheld down there, really great state of maturity they've got named accounts. They've implemented policies around key management's ticket management and all the rest of it. But they looking at controls in real time effect to look at really sensitive actions in end, that's really tying. Onto implementing best practices compliance into that that that very mature environment on the other side of the spectrum. We tend to find companies that have a less than Mitchell state of deployment can really take advantage of that flat. Recording technology provide to not only record actions that happening in production in the commands that are that are being tied. The executions being made the files being modified, the the changes they made to this late, but actually start to move the needle to to building a bit of practice around accessing that flight and mature people who are hyper paranoid. Then you've got the paper where everything's on fire, and they need something to to put flames. Yeah, exactly. It's it's the more gentle approach to doing. So it's not necessarily white list. It's not a blacklist in in less. You want it to it's really kind of something or in between the grey lists is a few flakes in sales tend to call it. But I don't really like that terminology. So I guess this is really just about more granular control of various actions. But I'm guessing that you have you know, I mean, it would ship with a with a sorta template of stuff that's like blocked by default or up to a default. Right. So this is kind of like a better permissions politic's emissions a hard, right? Like they are. So if you've got something like this with default permissions organization authorisation options around certain risky actions. That's going to get you a long way out of the guy at right, absolutely. Just highlighting sensitive actions around configuration changes, or, you know, very very sensitive use modification actions or our process of kitchen actions can can really provide companies a great picture of what's actually going on in the fleet, and you can escalate the the way that policy reacts in the environment very very easily. So a lot of the templates deploy start off. We'd simple. Let's hey, we're going to tell you when things attend to go wrong. Away, they might be suspicious or unusual behavior going on in the fleet. And you can cheat them in find chain into the to the to the liking of your environment in control element. But there's also a very much detection element. He from what you're saying. Absolutely. We we like to think a lot of companies that leveraging technology in in some ways today are actually saying the event sokaia and being able to react to that event occurring as opposed to trying to clean up the auto when we implemented the technology for some very early clients. A lot of them would just leveraging the engine to just hell when people were doing the wrong thing. Now, delivering the lead engine to get an approval sent to operations team about restarting service. It's really improving actually improving this fade that people can get things done in production. But creating a bit of a barrier around the things that they probably should not be doing for us. It's been pretty effective to learn alongside them and build some really amazing policies that that have helped people add some sticky situations now, I mean who you. Competing with here is that the people who are making God awful. Pam modules and stuff like that. Like is that kind of the competition to extent, we tend to find coming across different kind of observability tool session recording tools that were built for massive enterprise that getting kind of munched into cloud environments, and and it has a lot of those general like legacy visibility apps right that? That's right. He's hell. Yeah. Exactly. And I think we're being able to to improve the experience for the operations team is by providing a really clear picture of what's going on in language that they understand even in session. The inside console. It represents exactly as the shell would look like to the actually running that shell. So even if you've got junior analysts or analysts that may be kind of emerging into kind of intimate analyst role. They can actually see what the intent was behind the action and get the context Rodman just kind of make us options in group through day, logs or run. Some really complex queries. So give me an example of that. You could spit out that would tell someone something has gone seriously wrong. Yeah, we actually came across this a couple of weeks ago with proof of concept we were rolling out. And it was an interesting is the best when you rolling out a proof of concept, and it's like. Interesting. We had a customer ask. Hey, we've got state wear in a production environment to services stopped talking to each other. And the only thing we can pin it down to is something on the network. Hey, can you help us find the lost actions that changed a will say and to that specific distribution? It was just looking at UF w on the heist turned out that one of the engineers was trying to troubleshoot to see if the file was was actually closing problem in the place to ended up nailing that foul, and we're able to pinpoint it in a couple of minutes with them in a console and create some logic around it to prevent that follow being able to stable the change in production when the workload was running. So just goes through an authorization phase pups notification into a slack channel them in prevent some pretty click click around it more interesting cases that we've come across recently, our hosts that running docket containers. Where you've got administrative actions being performed on those containers within that environment within that hoist for longtime companies be managing. Access to contain is kind of shell access to containers three things like Kuban, Eddie's consoles, and he can create some really granular policies around that. But if you've got access to that underlying fleet running those pods, you can actually run Docker executions into the containers pretty easily with a couple of command line flags. So we created some policies for another client that was trying to lock down access to contain is even the they're administrators had access to the highest. We're able to create some really creative rules to not only notify the wind people trying to do it. But actually asked the question as to why what are you doing sounds like that whole thing about this is being reported to the administrator like this will actually report things to the administrator. That's actually, right. Yeah. It's it's that old message. Restore in the cookies a million years ago. All right, Jake king. Thank you very much. You guys have signed up as a sponsor for some weekly showers, which I'm very excited about you know, it's been it's been great watching this thing get there, right because I know you've been working very hard on this for few years. And now looks like you're in the fun. Hot of a startup where you've got your product. You've got the money now to take it to market, and and and you know, you've gone through that proof of concept phase, I'm I'm actually excited about this. I think it's about time. We saw some modern security tools for Lennox. Sorry. I'm going to start off the bat wishy the best of luck. And I'll be talking to you soon in the weekly slots, thanks time. Thanks that was king from Sam de there. And you can find them at C M d dot com. And I think they are gonna make a squadron dollars just quietly. So yeah, please. Remember the little people Jake. Remember us remember us. And yeah, if you're running a little inex- boxes, just really go. Check this out. They used to have a promo video on the website that was pretty mind blowing. But unfortunately, I don't think it's there anymore. But yeah, come on and bring back. The video is very cool. Now, the last window today is nucleus. I mentioned them in the intro to the podcast. Do make sure you hang around for that one. If you working in vulnerability management, but before that and right? Now, we're going to check in with alpha sock. So they can tell us about the elitest offering alpha Salk is one of those companies. That's just doing good conceptually. Simple stuff. Sorry. Many so-called threat intelligence products, essentially just to patent matching against known bad demands. An IP it is a blacklist approach and height. That's great. You should do that. But many of these products don't even do even a cursory analysis on DS look ups, and I pay metadata daughter. And that is where alpha comes in. They take you DNS look ups, your IP, metadata HTTP requests. And they perform analysis on those on that data in near real time. Then feed you alerting based on this stuff now. Most of for socks customers are spunk uses. So if you are a spunk user, you can literally go right now while you listen to this interview and provision yourself, a free trial K straight up all of alpha, socks documentation is online as is its pricing linked through to that documentation in the show notes. And yeah, considering the value they deliver. This is a really well priced product. It's actually quite cheap. Surprisingly, I think Chris McNab is the founder, but before that he ran incident response Isaac partners. And then NC group later on so, yeah, you know, what Chris has done. Here is taken some incident response workflow and turned it into a detection methodology. And in this interview, he explains why he's broadened Elvis socks offering to include more than just DNS. Analytics are here's Chris McNab. One of the challenges for us with with Luke's was we within that tree missing events and interesting indicates on other layers, for example, tics, we weren't able to flag tore circuit soul, kind of straight IP connections to commended control infrastructure. And then as well, you know, from an ACT perspective we weren't able to flag as she dig into the bureaucracy. So Florida the method was being used whether it was a weird extension for the follow. It was being downloaded. Did post request all or whatever was. So so yes, for sure we've just been working of less couple years now to extend coverage and densify, you know, threatening nominees across different different layers. Now when you say HTTP, I'm guessing you're getting fade of requests that are coming from tail proxies as well. So you not that's not a blind spot for you. Correct. So most of customers using spunk. So material come up into this Blunk environment from on the DNA side. It will be demand control is DNS infrastructure, like infra blocks on the IP side. It will then be a maybe like cut, bro idea. So full packet capture will follow coming up and then from she sighed. Yeah. It could be scaled Luke proxies. Any kind of you know, kind of HTTP aggregation point. Now, we should just point out how this works, right? Essentially, you run an API you Plum through. This information, and then you send back essentially like a badness school. I mean, it is that simple, isn't it? So we create a what we call the the office analytics engine the the analytics engine runs up in Google cloud is just an elastic scalable API that we operates an fundamentally it just speaks Jason. So our spunk up. We have integrations for elastic and all kinds of choline senses. No kinds of other kind of telemetry sources that material makes its way up in St. PI, so DNS events, I p connection events, you know, source piece was bought by pitas port time stamp and bites him by an HTTPS vents or that makes its way up into the API. We then school that material perform kinds of layered analytics, I'm sure we'll get into later in the podcast. And then we generates alerts and kind of you know, signals that. Make way back down into customer environments. If you using spunk up that gets rented very cleanly within spunk. However few using anything else century, whether it was yet curate all alien vote. Whatever the so maybe we can also provide those listen Jason formats, you can then integrate them into your existing sock. Okay. So let's talk about those analysts right because one thing that is conspicuously absent from your marketing is any mention of advanced auto official intelligence machine learning, and you know, look, I mean, one of the things I like about alpha Salk, right? You've got a long background. You had a long background incident response. You have seen how the planes crashed into the mountain Ryan and unpicking that you don't necessarily need an artificial intelligence cyber threat engine to be able to figure out what's gone wrong there. I mean that seems to be what's informed. The why that you've built these analytics, it's all pretty simple stuff. But you know, the difference between Salk moldable the kind of cyber machine learning. Use of Adrian, logistics companies is is that we reject she boots up the company back in two thousand thirteen picked up a first customer worked with them to actually build something. The gave true value and an useful. And then ever since we've just been improving, and it's raising upon the products. Really, you know, a good way of thinking about it is our ala customers and have actually become our investors foot for the most part. So because of that we then just naturally being in improving the product for the customers and producing producing kinds of useful kind of use cases without needing to drill to leeann sue machine learning or AI, the best to say that we don't have classifies all ordering on on those technologies from like, a marketing perspective, we really allergic to to kind of, you know, referring to cyber or a or. Or anything other these other both woods within. I think I think we should just replace discussions of machine learning with discussions of you know, sort of complicated statistics models. I think is it's. I'm so let's talk about some of the lyrics that you're doing. I mean one thing that you'll flagging on his communication with young demands. I mean that would be one of the simplest ones for people to understand. So even that one actually bushy every all the security tool that I've seen in in recent years is built mentioned it in such a way that it will ingest a threat feed information and threatened talents from like third party kind of indicates a list, and then it will be performing one dimensional correlation way. You just take the the the raw data. Whether it's, you know, web requests, the NS requests IP events, you correlate against the feed. And then we throw the against the wall. He sees Ican soups seal safe. So that that that's the kind of the existing legacy way of processing material what we've done it is turn that on its head. And so even she this use case, the you'll highlighting here, which is flanking beacon ING traffic too, young suspicious domain. If we are she unpack that there. There are times classifieds beneath the surface that I can dig into. So the the first one is then we have like a timing and classify where for every single source destination pair, we then track the time stamps of of the requests over up to seventy period. And if the timing delta starts fall into a regular pattern will inflict speaking. And we'll kind of upgrade the severity or the kind of interest level around around the the signal for maybe like a an informational to to a low severity. And then we then also who is in tens of thousands of demands every day. So when when when we see given domains. Dennis Mitchell coming into the engine. And if we haven't seen it to make before will actually reach out who is dementia and understand whether it's young or old, you know, figure out the creation date for that main who is registered by which country they were in. And then if that demand is less than sixty days old Letsie within up great severity again from say low to medium, so something like beacon ING too suspicious. Young main under the surface ner two or three classifies steps kind of almost like a work steps being performed if he was trying to do that work within a traditional sim. Whether it was, you know, spunk, proper, or, you know, oxide ralian vote one of the products is because there's products aunt built in that way is just not possible to to kind of performance this active work on the flight and some of them some of them are building like automate as an orchestrated way you can drill down into that sort of stuff, but you have to initiate that action. Right. This is Matt right? It's it's I mean, you know, the rich mogul actually use the term I'm on Twitter some time ago. Described. He describes some product is being blue collar security tool, which I really like because it's often my favorite approaches to infra Salinger's as well, the simple ones that just work. They don't need to be particularly complicated. The just as I mentioned before you've got a background in Iowa. And I'm guessing on a lot of gigs. You would have to you would eventually hit on demand. And the reason you would know it's shady is. Because of these reasons that you mentioned, you know, you would say, well, that's young Demane. And then you looking for certain doing certain timing analysis on it. And then, hey, okay. This is giving me something to work with you. I mean automating that at the time that this is all happening. It's not that hard. You would. In theory. It's not that hot. But as discovered through working with asset, you know, some of the simple stuff can be quite complicated. But yeah, you get where I'm coming from. I'm sure precisely so you we can agree that that it's not difficult, and this isn't anything special. But you'd be surprised I'm sure how difficult this is for for security teams at scale. So what what I've found then, you know, doing the incident response work doing previously chasing Russian GRU agents through through corporate networks, and so on and so on it was very clear to me that the existing kind of sim symbolic were being used by these teams they were producing useful. Interesting indicators and alerts, but but our missing a lot as well. Right. Yeah. An- an- as as getting into with the strength that we're currently on. There was an need for the security operation sensitive to be staffed with a number of analysts within take that material. Reach out look up the demand virus towed saw. Oh, look it up on passive DAS do kinds of additional manual steps. In order to form an opinion as to whether Demane or destination. Susan trophic pattern was was good bad or ugly. It's as simple as you know, automating bet and producing a refined results the analyst, and that really is is is what we're doing it office. Okay. If if you distill our work would way down to it's kind of fundamental truth. We really are then performing this multidimensional analytics on the fly in nitny realtime. And then what producing this this refined material that makes its way back into the Salk an at she at a number of customers reason taking this mature now feeding straight into saw an orchestration and even then freeing up the Unlis where where that there's no need for that to be a human, you know, human involved in in the loop. So so yes, that's the way the way this is hopefully moving into the future where it just become similar to what? Netflix of been doing for years with their final kind of infrastructure. They built out which is just a series of API's talking to API's and everything everything kind of runs runs runs. Runs at scale with. Which is which will says was happening AWS and some other large larger and prisons last time, we spark we were talking about, you know, DNS by stuff, you're doing IP as you mentioned, you're doing by STAN licks now and the high tape e based lyrics, can you give me just to ideas about like, I'm guessing for the IP stuff you looking for baking, and whatever, but what are some of the other indicators that you're looking for in IP's, and, you know, hesitating pay traffic if fullest if we see for example, traffic from from an address with an environment out to a destination using strange ports of its using mobile ports. Sixteen sixty five or seven seven seven seven. We will then run that piece Roussin boxing engines. So, you know, virus totes CISCO's right grit, kind of sun boxing engines to then figure out if there are known for samples associated with this nation. So again in terms of. A layered approach traffic to a destination. That's not for three or four eighty is interesting but not necessarily malicious. But then if we also have a positive score from the sandbox engines than that that that is interesting. And then also we have all kinds of other party, we using where Riva running things things through Google safe browsing where correllated on the side, according to Mainz against quote, nine and the other Guinness rep looking Reuters. And then finally, you know, a new set of features that we've we've only been building out over the last monthly. So now is where we will actually proactively reach out to these services and tried to fingerprint them out out our selves, so if it's a web service week, and then figure out whether it's returning like an open directory listing which is an interesting or whether it's like a WordPress jeweler or or triple. Service hiked EP request side. What do you what are you doing that? So primarily looking at get some post requests on the get side. If we see an eight she gets all of a file with with an audit extensions whoever. It's, you know, don't Ellen KO SEER HDA was some kind of strange looking. We don't know great that from you know, as like an informational to a low, but I can see what you're saying. I mean, that's where it's gonna get interesting. When you start seeing one agent one endpoint doing that. That's not good. Absolutely. So so again from a behavioral perspective, we're looking at volume of requests. So if we see posts to maybe a young main and hooking back into the SO if demand is young it has suspicious tail dot X Y XYZ, and then it has a positive socks engine school. Then we will upgrade that to look this is this is all making sense. Sorry, I'm pushing here, but we're running out of time. And I do want the listeners to understand that in enterprise terms, if the sort of organization that has a sock a sock is an expensive thing the cost of rolling. This out is bordering on trivial. Can you tell us how much this costs? There are few things were quite proud about. The first is that we don't have any mention of cyber on the website the second as I mentioned, they I will machine learning on the website. And then the third is a price is that she public within the documentation the way that we price. This is just based on the the size of the environments, and it starts off. At eight dollars per endpoint per year. So it's very very cheap. If you're an environment with two hundred and points, looking like sixteen hundred dollar dollar investment from an evaluation perspective. The one thing to mention there as the products and the engine itself is completely free and unrestricted to evaluate the thirty days. So you can use our various integrations self provision key. There's no need to he sells people, and then you can start evaluating the gala ticks, and that she said see whether but does does what it says on the tin will not Well, Chris McNab? Thank you very much for joining us. It's great to hear what you've been up to over the last couple years and building this thing out people who are interested can guard. Sue alpha sock dot com slash spunk to get some more information there. But yet it's been a pleasure to have you back on the show. And I wish you the best of luck with thanks much. That was Chris McNab there, and I have linked through to documentation in the show notes for this podcast. So if you wanna go and provision yourself, a free trial. You could do that yourself. Just go for it. If you're a spunky personally, I think it's a no brainer to go. Give it a plug it in see what comes out it is free trial. Okay. I lost snake oil for this week is nucleus. And this is one of those products that like a few percent of this audience is just gonna they're gonna hear this interview. And then just going to go out and buy it because it's one of those things that fills I get very nicely. It's not rocket science. It's just an excellent productivity tool. So yeah, if you are vulnerability program manage at dealing with myriad von scanners and not just the network scan is tenable and whatever I'm in web. Scanners software composition analysis tools. Whatever if you're someone who's trying to manage the output of all of these tools with some spreadsheet share point horror show. Well, no, one would blame you for hiding your life and your job right now. And. Nucleus has a solution for that. Basically what they do is they ingest the output of all of these tools, you'll hear a roll call of which of not even a comprehensive one. But a roll call of just how many tools I support. And. Yeah, it allows you to plumb through individual alerts out to the right people via ticketing system slack. Whatever. That's that's what they do. And this is a sort of stuff we love to promote on risky stuff that actually solves real problems that people actually have in their digests. Anyway, here is nucleus co founder Scott trooper joining us to give his best pitch for nucleus. Nucleus is a web application which was specifically designed to solve the problems that vulnerability management teams face on a daily basis. So what we do is we ingest the vulnerability scanning data from all of the vulnerability scanning tools that you use in your organization across the entire technology stacks. This can be anything from network scanners to with application scanners to eight I scanners on and on. So. What we do is. We actually help you normalize the vulnerability findings into one place. So that you can analyze them. We help you prioritize the findings. So that, you know, which ones need to be fixed first, and then we automates and orchestrate the workflows that surround the actual management of those vulnerabilities. Yeah. Now, the orchestration pod is interesting. So we'll get into which particular technologies you support because his quite a lot of them in you you've ticked quite a few boxes there. But the idea that you can set this thing is a connector, so you know, that you can sort of have rules different alerts like depending on where the alert has popped up you can sort of determine which team it needs to guard. So that sort of stuff I mean, that's a big selling point for you guys. Isn't it? Absolutely. So one of the big the big things that a lot of our clients like about nucleus is that they can use it in a multitude of ways. Right. So on the one hand you can use it as an analyst workbench to actually analyze and figure out what needs to be fixed first. But at the same time, you can also have nucleus running in the background almost as a connector between all of your different scanning tools, and then basically connecting them to the ticketing systems that you're using to actually remediate vulnerabilities. So you can set up. So I think this is a good time to actually. Mention which technologies you support right? Because you've spoken about, you know, connecting things right? And that can be a little bit abstract, but you support things like necessary net Spock next what else because quite a few on that side of the equation. Right. Absolutely. So we support basically network security. Scanners DASS Sast IS SEA open source. Vulnerability analysis containers, cloud, basically, all of the Volna r- ability scanning type technologies that you would use in your organization or that you would find for your different teams. So let's let's name some of them. Let's just do a bit of a roll call. Sure. So sneak rapid seven twist lock check marks fortify. Nets Barker open, Vaas, herb, sweets, necessarily that already mentioned esus Wallis cost you a asks. Right. So each of the the big the big three in network security to do containers compliance also. So we support that's we've got the Accu networks of the world's will also support custom data types. So. If you have custom tools that you built in house, you can actually form at the output of those into our nucleus schema and post that directly to us and basically build us into your CIC de pipeline. So that's why the reason I wanted to do to do it roll coal is just because like I'm pretty impressed actually by just how many different things you support. But on the output side, I mean, which ticketing systems do you support because you support quite a few of them yet? So we actually supports a variety of technologies on the output side. Also, so we integrate with this log so things like spunk. Gray, log, those sorts of things we also integrate with ticketing systems like JIRA service now sa- manage and then also other ticketing systems that are more like issue tracker. So bit buckets JIRA, get hub hip chat. Slack actually the deprecated hip chat. So you can disregard that one. But yes, Email SMS we've basically support all of the mediums that you would need to to be notified, basically your abilities. Depending on your organizational structure. Okay. So we've spoken about the types of data. The ingest spoken about the types of ticketing systems and various forms of communication on the output side. So let's talk about why that might be useful. Right. So can you give us a case study of a typical deployment maybe tell us like some of the problems that this actually solves people. Right. Absolutely. So kind of at the core of ability management team, you're doing vulnerability assessments, right? And that's kind of the basis of defensive cyber security program now with the huge influx technologies. The explosion of technologies that that exists. Now, you have a multitude of tools, and you may have a multitude of teams that are responsible for vulnerabilities in each of those categories, and they have no great way of actually sharing the information with each other in order to determine a kind of what your total vulnerability risk picture is one of the biggest problems and really the the way that most vulnerable teams do this is they actually run. From excel spreadsheets or PDF reports and they throw those excel spreadsheet and Email Nightman normally right, right or or the more commonly we see it thrown in a share point somewhere. And then people check that out and make changes in check it back in a so what we do is we actually ingest all that data and normalize it. And basically give you a standard place where you can everybody can go to get the information that they need. And then because we have all of that information kinda in one place in normalized format. We're able to essentially allow you to define rules that if the data meets certain criteria. It can be tasked automatically to users that are responsible for it. So the best example would be there is a web application that you're being you're scanning with check marks and a sequel injection vulnerability comes up and that asset has particularly been tagged as a critical assets than as nucleus ingesting. The. The vulnerability data for that scan. It will see this sequel injection vulnerability, and then shoot it over to the JIRA ticketing system that you have defined for those types of owner abilities. So we try to make it as granular as possible. So that you can actually let nucleus take care of all the administrative functionality for you. Now how much of a pain in the Aussies at to set up because that's the one thing. I'd be worried about is like oh my God. I'm going to have to ride him in in rules. So we basically have what we call dynamic rules where you can define the categories of how it works. Right. So if you have an application owner than you can say if there is a critical Volmer ability on an application, send it to its owner. So rather than saying you need to send a ticket to each individual person. And tag each of those assets, you can do it in kind of a more abstract way that allows you to write less rules. So it's really about going into the console and assigning responsibility for various types of bugs to different people. And then the categorization of those bug. Is something that you do on the nucleus, son. Correct. And then also we we have the ability to pull that from the various tools. So a lot of the output that we get. So for example, if used check marks a couple of times, they actually have the owner of the the application in the output. So we can we can pull some of that data from there. Also now, I'm curious to know what the competitive landscape looks like here because I can remember some products along similar lines from like God. What would I call the ones who would gonna get bought by talking fifteen years ago there were few companies doing similar stuff? It never really took off what what's the competitive landscape looked like now though in two thousand nineteen well, it's very interesting that you ask that because we actually have two classes of competitors that I would I would categorize so the first is kind of your traditional vulnerability scanning vendor. So they do obviously the ones that are doing the scanning the problem with them is that they don't really play well with others. So they they don't allow you to analyze all of your data. So they they argue that that they're the best at everything. So that three hundred sixty degree visibility. Right. It's like if you use out on which actually scan for all types of classes of bugs like tenable is not going to be as useful as something like snick for doing software. Composition analysis. Right. Absolutely. It's never gonna be as good at at open source vulnerability analysis, Nick is and so even though they have some decent dashboards. Those dashboards are pretty much useless when you're trying to you know, abstract it out and evaluate your entire vulnerability risk and then who's the second Claus. Yeah. The second class are basically two categories the categories we put them in our risk intelligence type platforms. So they're basically the the vendors that try to do threat modeling to help you figure out what to fix I which is good. But they really lacked the ability to analyze the volume ability data in such a way and at the correct level to actually be useful for analysts. Right. So they have that kind of high level view, which is not extensible for the actual analysts to do their job. No, it's a little bit fancy, right? This is more of a getting done product. Absolutely. We kind of we kinda split the middle between the two is what we like to say. So we provide all the analysis capabilities from your traditional scanning vendor, console accents across all of your technologies. And then we also provide the ability to prioritize and help you figure out what to fix first and to do some of that threat modeling on the side as well. Okay. Scott kufa. Thank you very much for joining us to give us a rundown on nucleus. I believe that anyone who's interested in this product can guard and trial it for free for couple of weeks. Really get a feel how it all works. People can head are the into the show podcast to check out a link to your website. Thanks for joining us. Absolutely. Thanks a lot. Appreciate it. That was got Kufa from nucleus there. And yeah, you can trial nucleus full free as well. Linked through in this week's show notes and one things getting touch with off towards to sign that being able to trivial assign individual application owners for this system. That is actually a couple months away. You can still do the same thing. Whoa complicated. Rules, the mega easy stupid quickly. Pointy rule. Set feature is coming light. But I am a big fan of nucleus as you can tell in fact on a big fan of all three of the vandals in this oil. Do y'all got something valuable out of that as well? But yeah, that is it for this addition of oil is pot two will be running. I think next week, but I will be back before then with another weekly show. But until then I've been Patrick, right? Thanks for listening.

analyst Chris McNab Lennox Google Jake king Patrick gray Accu Scott Kufa Demane Dennis Mitchell co founder NCC Canada administrator Haiti
4: Feuerzauber: Lufthansa Hijack, Part 2

Covert

35:50 min | 1 year ago

4: Feuerzauber: Lufthansa Hijack, Part 2

"October Sixteenth nineteen seventy seven it had been four days since Lufthansa plane. One Eighty one was hijacked after German forces had chased it to six different countries. The plane had finally set down for a week and do by British S._A._S. operatives and German G._S.. JEANINE specialists thought they finally had an opening to storm the plane defense minister who's actually running the whole show in Dubai. <hes> came down and we did a demonstration for him. Demonstration was really slick. He liked it and he gave us the green light to go that night. The teams had spent days rehearsing the rescue on a model plane they would split into small groups and take the plane from all sides using the element of surprise but before they could a surprise God them we saw the plane taking off and then we were told that the plane had just left on his own accord when there was a lot of disappointment <hes> alison just when I thought we were going to return to U._K.. Welcome to covert a show about the shadowy world of international espionage and top secret military operations. If the highlights go off they could cause a sympathetic explosion the whole aircraft craft director. I'm Jamie Rennell. I'M GONNA take you inside. History's greatest special forces missions learn about the brave soldiers at operatives who risked their lives to terminate the world's most wanted eliminate terrorist threats and protect protect countless innocent loss. Basically the the feeling was that we'd negotiated. We'd chase them he just in Phoenix we didn't do something. The deadline was twelve o'clock. We didn't do something by twelve o'clock then they would kill somebody or kill them all the plane and their plans back up in the air the S._A._S. and G._S.. Jeanine had to act quickly before the hijackers got restless and someone innocent would die in any counterinsurgency operation. If someone is killed the operation goes into a much higher gear now G._S._T.. Nine new deaths more deaths might be impending twent- quickly to save lives. This is foia out Lufthansa hijack hard to flight L. H.. One Eighty one also known as the lunch shoot was on the move on board the terrorist terrorist leader calling himself Mahmoud forced the pilot Captain Schumann to set a course south the hijacked plane headed south toward odd in Yemen then known as South Yemen but during the three hour flight the terrorists wrists revealed a terrifying fact they hadn't just brought guns on the plane author of storming flight. One Eighty one Chris McNab says they had quite the arsenal the terrorist took him bold with them two hundred guns six hundred grenades and about two kilos of plastic explosive and later in the height at the district to the plastic explosive round into aircraft one customer button the whole aircraft could be destroyed. The rescue mission had become far riskier gear one hint of a rescue operation and the whole plane could go up killing everyone on board instantly. Hey folks. I want to talk a little bit about some some bad decisions that I made as a kid so I got into some credit card debt really early right in college doing some of the things that every college kid does did you know the average interest rate on credit card. Debt is over nineteen percent A._p._R.. Have if you look at your interest rate lately right now light stream is offering you a way to consolidate your debt into a low fixed rate. You can save thousands in interest so pay off your high interest credit cards with a credit card consolidation loan from livestream. You can get a rate as low as five point nine five percents A._p._R.. With auto pay and that is so much lower than the national average interest rate on credit card debt so right now. I've got a special offer just for my listeners apply today at light stream dream dot com slash covert and get an additional introductory discount. That's light stream dot com slash covert for an additional discount L. I. G. H. T. S. T. R. E. A. M. dot com slash covert subject to credit approval rating includes zero point five zero auto pay discount terms and conditions apply and offers are subject to change without notice visit light stream dot com backslash covert for more information doc as the plane approached Ogden Captain Schumann requested landing permission the justice with Damascus and Baghdad this request was denied the runways filled with with military vehicles and the Radio Command say you cannot want Shuman however no says no choice. The fuel is exceptionally low. He makes a low pass to check out the situation then comes back in again and lands on some rough Afzali runways just next mainly but this is a terrifying moment for the passengers. This is rough landing. They have graced for disaster. They didn't have enough fuel to go anywhere else. So Captain Schumann made a choice without permission mission. He decided to land on a rough strip runway anyway. Surface was soft and sand life not the hard asphalt. The plane is made for the plane began to touchdown wheels hitting spinning rocks and skidding wildly. Elderly luckily the wheels didn't lock and Chuma was able to make a safe landing but the relief of the landing was only temporary south Yemen was not about to let some strange plane stay in their airport. The authorities wanted land should get straight back into the air landing was rough. It was possible that the plane was an airworthy after that Schumann likely wanted to go outside and inspect it incredibly Mahmoud Move can sentenced this when astonished at the undercarriage niece means sound condition Mahmoud had no choice but to let him check the plane was his only way out of south Yemen to Schumann jumped down onto the desert floor and began to look under under the plane for any signs of damage. It all seemed to be going well. The plane was fine at least but Schumann started walking away from the plane towards the airport authorities Shuman gets off the starts inspecting them accounts but then realizes realizes needs the help of the authorities crucially out my holds permission he walks across the runway and goes to the aid and control tower from inside the plane. The hostage passengers could see the pilot talking with the officials nls before then returning to the plane once again. Everything looks fine but it isn't once human guests back on board the aircraft. He's faced with an enraged my mood. He's defied his orders. In a terrifying moment the passengers and in an awful end touching shuman slapped about the face by Mahmoud and then shot in the head Mahmoud Shot Schumann in the face. The pilot's body was dragged back onto the plane. Put in full move you of everyone on board. The impact of captured Schumer's death was appalling on the passengers. Now they knew beyond a doubt that the terrorists would carry through the threats to kill people they also had the terrifying presence of countries Schuman's body at the back the aircraft as a horrible reminded of what might happen to them in an instant the stakes had changed it was now blood on their hands and little hope of a negotiated settlement ex navy seal stew due Smith explains so it it showed everybody on the team that these guys are meaning business. They just changed the dynamics of the game. When you kill an innocent person and now the <hes> the mission is going to happen? You know it's going to happen. There's no doubt in in any of the team members minds is going to happen. We just have to find out when and now when you start killing people it probably it needs to go sooner than later. The feet of flying now fell to co-pilot Jurgen V._A.. Tour after ten hours on the ground via tor coached the plane back into the Air Mahmoud now set the course for Mogadishu Somalia back in Dubai G._S. Jeanine in the S._A._S.. Figuring out their next steps they had missed the key opportunity to get the hostages back and South Yemen was refusing entry to the G._S. Jeanine same as they did with the hijacked plane S._A._S. officer Barry Davies explains that they didn't know if there was even a mission to continue. I mean there was a lot of disappointment <hes> said Alison. I thought we were going to return to U._K.. The Gym has asked us to stay. We got there. We were discussing what we're GONNA. Do next. <hes> was Naski. I believe made the decision we would follow them and <hes> we actually flew to WHO <hes> Saudi Arabia and came down and talk to us and said Gentlemen. Sorry changed decision again. We're going to be a military option. In the early morning. The Somali airport authorities had gotten in touch with German embassy. The missing missing plane had in fact landed in Somalia and what they said was disturbing with Mexican came on on he was not looking very pleased. Anita said they'd killed Shuman EAC. You said from now on we follow them to the N._P._S.. And be pushed the negotiator negotiated went to say something and he pushed him away. Don't need you anymore. Basically <hes> after that we took off flew due to <hes> to mortgage as the lunch shoot touchdown at the Mogadishu airport. A Somali ambulance approached the plane captain. Schumann's body was unceremoniously dumped on the tarmac where it was retrieved the co-pilot v._A.. Tour was told this would be the last stop and forgetting them safely aground. Mock mood offered to let him leave the a tour opted to stay Mahmoud. Meanwhile began negotiations with the Somali police police and German embassy staff. You have to realize that by this stage of the hijack Mahmoud Mental State Hus- completely deteriorated. He's new insane from lack of sleep. The pressure of the hijack is starting to get to him. He's becoming increasingly acing unstable as the minutes go by Mahmoud had the same demands as before release the Red Army Faction prisoners from Germany and hand over fifteen million dollars but he set up a new ultimatum if his comrades were not delivered by three o'clock that afternoon the plane and everyone in it we'll be blown up. Intelligence Understood Captain Mahmoud would do anything to get his goals accomplished that would be to kill innocent civilians blow up planes and destroy property. It didn't matter the G._S.. G Nine was waiting anxiously to get into action but I the German politicians had to negotiate with the local. Local government as well as with the terrorists writer Chris McNab explains that hans-jurgen Vishnevsky the special envoy had to be careful when negotiating with mock mood Vishnevsky negotiations with my mood became increasingly fault the hijacking went on my moods mental sites steadily worsened and he became more and more dangerous so vishnevsky constantly try and calm him down while playing for time on not raising suspicion at the same time basically the <hes> the feeling with that we'd negotiated we'd chase them you just if we didn't do something than they would. Kill somebody or kill them. All themselves included the negotiations. We're going nowhere and so mark mood decided to make himself a serious threat with half an hour to go before his deadline expired he prepared to incinerate the aircraft and its occupants on the tide of the winning with that types amendment that ties and they put alcohol for they've burned quickly. There's a terrifying moment joined the flight from Agin. Tomorrow's issue where Mahmoud takes all the flammable spirits inborn tape. Some of the heads of the punishment is basically she can making them firebombs and he explains to them that they go. We're going to burn if the situation turns bad as the situation worsened a message came through to air traffic control Dhabi dilmun young suit as put talk radio to German negotiation to she makes a heartfelt plea for that lies but also there's a very bleak notes to it. She mentioned at one point. We know that this is the end racial down. The people inside autocratic got the feeling that they were getting close to the end. Maybe if you don't do it now if you just had the feeling. It was GONNA go Vishnevsky realized he was out of time and adopted a high risk strategy. He told mock doc mood the R._A._F.. Prisoners were being released and were on their way and was of course a bold faced lie the they were being talked to as we were surrounded the aircraft untold if they'd won untold the money and told him they talk to their friends who have been released from jails in Germany and we'd be on an aircraft on the token very soon. All these things gave them some hope that they were going to win the time it take for the R._A._F.. Prisoners to travel would give the Jeanine the extra time they needed to strike. They now had until two thirty A._M.. To rescue the hostages with the pressure mounting Vishnevsky finally asked the Somali government to let the rescue raid go ahead and we were told to wait until we were cleared to come off the aircraft <hes> we snow ski the prime minister that in promising all sorts of eighty what else out on the wall and I did the trick they agreed and the G._S.. Jeanine flew into the airport to start figuring out a new operation at that stage when it was said there's going to be a military option those top MU chains with everybody to factor the politics been murdered they nothing down in the plane and Blewett Brain's really effective body and we were. We were then giving up giving up to to to go for it. We knew there's going to be an operation then. We took off like in Dubai. The Somali government insisted that local soldiers were involved in the operation as well. Take this time the full G._S.. Jeanine contingent of sixty highly trained operatives were allowed into Somalia begin to land <hes> they tend to pain around immediately. Go back down to pull the holding area relied on feds away from the the hijacked plane. We sit on the aircraft onto the smallest came. Commander Rick Vegan wasted no time and worked on the revised plan. Basically the planning finding Mogadishu was an elaborate a more loved to climb that we had to buy in Mogadishu we had full team and we opened all doors simultaneously. I'm the wings so we had multiple entry point. The plan was to approach the aircraft from its blind spot the rear they would position assault ladders against the aircraft's fuselage at six entrance points and the Somali troops would set off an explosion three hundred meters away as a distraction at the same time stun grenades would disorient the enemy long enough to allow Vegas. Manny wants through the doors. The team would systematically move through the lunch shoot until it was cleared of the terrorists but former former S._A._S. fighter pilot Nigel Ellie explained that this mission was still risky. The aircraft detected coffee's bad. It's a real bad situation because every hairston knows what the scenario is. There's only one way to accept an for for minimum damage. I mean this is why airport security has got to be a hundred percent to stop the sensor bitches gun on because it is a bad bad target to attack all right listeners. I WanNa talk a little bit about do cannon. Is it possible that a bar of soap could be patriotic. I mean that's kind of crazy right. It's just the bar soap doesn't get out a little flag and go to parades and all that kind of stuff but consider this do cannon superior quality grooming goods for hardworking. 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Okay free shipping on orders orders over thirty five bucks. Go do it right now one thirty A._M.. An hour before Mahmoud deadline line expired the assault team formed up at the end of the runway. If I'm really honest you don't think about the hostages the hostages on the list of priorities they are the most important part as far as saving them is concerned but you don't think about them. You think about gaining access because we gain access. You can't do anything thinking about gain getting to the aircraft because you can't get up on same. We're going to give the game away. I'm once you're inside assigned you think about closing with a terrorist on a knowing the terrorist. We don't think about the hostages at all separately G._S.. Jeanine snipers had moved into concealed positions around the land shoot they analyze the movements of the terrorists through the small all windows carefully they reported on the exact movements of each terrorist. The team had to cross hundreds of meters of runway without being seen or heard snobbish position. They told us that the the <hes> the blinds down and coach was Claire so we'll formed up in the dedicated order in one big line we will towards the radio aircraft because there's a blind spot on the unfortunately as we were walking towards the aircraft the big searchlights light up the affeldt okay from shadows at least thirty meters long and if you looked at the window he'd seen this line of shadows coming towards could miss it. I mean it was quite something luckily the windows closed as the assault team approached the Somali government was keeping the terrorists occupied they checked in periodically about where the released prisoners were on the journey and repeated heated platitude that they had one. Please don't kill anybody you won you won and apparently in the plane so so hey told me many years later they will elated. They actually thought that they'd won by this time. We'd reached the neath a the the aircraft everybody going in that position. They put the ladder up against the rear door. The team gathered under the fuselage and there are designated squads ready. We all got into oppositions underneath the aircraft and then the teams teams with ladders put them against the wing and also against the doors front and rear the problem was they use the ladders on the seven zero seven which is a much larger aircraft in the seventy seven when I was at the Rea- area on the starboard side when the latter against it it didn't fit us too long so that bring the medics from the further back bring them up and put him on the shoulder and they were holding this Oldman ladder up while to climb up on it the same thing's going on everywhere. I think got my two dates. pull the pin at both of them holding grenades only vaguely was literally down right below me and I can remember smiling counting the countdown from tattle. They continued his countdown down to as he said one huge explosion violently broke out close by on cue. The Somali military had set up an enormous fire. Only one hundred feet from the nose of the plane. They Davies explained claimed that it was much more intense than he had been expecting. <hes> the smallest were to <hes> McKnight that fire. We'll lose it almighty buying I think a whole bowser with petro went up just lip the place like daylight is one of the things that I think everybody would laughing and <hes> it was a good division. The diversion was good but would only distract the terrorists for so long it was now or never even on training the attendant Drennan just drew up right to one hundred percent and you go through the first one Benito corporate and the second one but of course the cabin doors are open next thing as I turned and looked doors already open the first guy on the left Chechen guy opened the door unused buddy wait to swing it open on the second guy was in and I looked up there was a woman time that she had a black T. shirt on the red shakeup Ara Silhouette on it and the guy just put a toilet then dived inside the aircraft. The plane was still rigged with explosives. They had to move quickly when the. Nine within that we showed in Henley Henley as you head down in say down stay down as the passengers in the plane hit the ground. One figure advanced in his hands were two grenades. If the hunger lights go off they could cause a sympathetic explosion. The whole aircraft could be right but just you nine offices have only one choice they shoot him immediately and he drops dead that was to down but then something terrible happened a soldier's worst nightmare. The two grenades fell out of the deadman's limp pans and the pins dislodged smoke and flames ripped across the cabin shrapnel from the grenades hit stewardess cobby Delmonte and another passenger but the G._s. g nine and everyone else us have had a lucky escape the grenade it seems was poorly made it went off. I think most of it absorbed by the seating grenades concussion. It wasn't a very good <hes> quite weak surrounded basically a Russian round grenade accompanying the designation of it but it went off onto the seats to the got. I think descended from that went to shoot as that was the only injury for the whole thing G._S.. Jeanine jumped back into action. Has One team moved forward another tried to get the passengers off the plane as quickly as possible we on Talbot Wing <hes> Stove Window was opened. Both of them are open and and <hes> the Paschall that most of the people out on kite they tied up most people out and they started coming out and then drove at the front of the aircraft another G._S.. Jeanine section slowly advanced towards the cockpit. They needed to corner the most dangerous terrorist in the Group Captain Mahmoud suddenly the cockpit door open and reckless abandon Mahmoud fired a torrent of bullets toward the squad. One fighter was hit but kept fighting the offices frison returned to find out when he was hit by five point thirty eight bullets. He staggers back into the cockpit. He still dangerous reaching for highlight. The door swings too but an office puts a burst of machine gunfire straight through the door hits my mood full on and the leader is killed. Three of the terrorists were now out of action but there's still one who was missing for the nineteen dangerous moment towards the end of the rate three of the terrorists bruce have been taken out most the passages have been evacuated or in the process of being evacuated but he studied becomes apparent though one of the hijackers is missing. This situation is still not fully under control. There are still explosives on the aircraft craft those still weapons that still dangerous individual the G._S._T.. Nineteen find and find quickly obviously did <hes> and they put all the body tight side but then they moved everybody to seventy seven <hes> negotiating complain and <hes> we moved off kit from the negotiating plane into gesture nine seven seven they derived on <hes> on so that the whole team was asking everybody moved onto the gesture nine aircraft evening while the news were put on negotiating plane they put them on there and who basically about to take off and he was Alastair Morrison in Fantis who said what about sleepers and they hadn't talked about it and <hes> immediately they rushed the team stopped everything team from all playing across to the plane and put the team on that just in case it Wesley resembled. The missing terrorist was a woman so high less idea where was she. Could she be hiding in amongst the passengers G._S.. Jeanine swept through the cabin pushing anyone in their way onto the wing of the plane and they heard a strange sound coming from the lavatory they closed in and open the door multiple bullets struck so highly and and a fourth terrorist was accounted for by two fourteen an sixteen minutes to spare the mission was over Vegas radioed in Code Words Springtime Operation Fire Magic was a success excess. Two of the hostages were wounded that they were alive. Terrorists are no much for regular troops especially special forces that are well trained never going to win on the I mean the reason terrorists win is because they unexpectedly they planned bomb goes off when they're not. They're all controlled by radio. They're not anywhere near it terrorists win because they do unexpected things once they see you coming towards him once you within two or three meters of them I mean the last thing goes through the head. Is I want to stay alive. They will try and stop you. They'll shoot you. You'll try kill you anywhere. In the best body armor money can buy on your a better shot and you got a better weapon than them. Vishnevski investigator breathed a sigh of relief. The one surviving terrorist Sohila Cya was stretchered off the plane defiant to the end once it was all over the people inside would control troll deport the bodies of the of the aircraft and they put him on on the deck the moment they got so hayler out which they thought was dead she was very much alive and it better on a stretch but one hundred and two fingers shouted free Palestine Stein later that morning the team flew back to Germany they had brought eighty six hostages home with minimal injuries and damage they were ready for a celebration both aircraft took off side by side it and we flew to Germany and at that stage everybody's related and I didn't realize Lufthansa carrots much alcohol we opened alcohol on. We started drinking and grow patting ourselves on the back and. <hes> saint a good war and we were really pleased and house a newspaper published the fact on the same day. I still don't know but I'm sure somebody does we. Then flew back as say we celebrate ourselves with Naski was really pleased with the operation the way gun news really grateful for help and everything else and we made really good friends with gesture nine on on on that time coming back both both aircraft raft then landed temporary bomb. I believe it was and then we flew onto Santa Guston again and do a massive welcoming committee suggestion on on massive Brad armed guards in uniform with machine guns along all along top of flat building. You can't run out the plane lined up three ranks and the minister came from words everything was great and came down president shake on buddy and sent something he's in Germany and then as more than welcome English but shoulder there was a guy in a Mac back long trenchcoat and come with me being honest with him went to the V._I._P.. Lounge escorted. They're still looking filthy. Dirty washing shade for about a a week old V._I._P.. People watching on television they'll look at the window you can sit and watch it on television and <hes> and <hes> the general manager of Lufthansa British Airways came in and said Jan you need when we were in Dubai. We first arrived in Dubai. They'd taken passports and then a Reuters reporter was actually got pushed him. We'll white everybody realised straightaway S._A._S. and didn't try to hide it after that they were quite pleased Vega and his team landed in Germany to a hero's welcome Germany had been facing a lot of terror attacks in the last few years. This was a real victory. The Michigan Mogadishu was successful because sent a message out to the terrorists. I swore that they no longer held all the cards indeed terrorist hijackings of aircraft started to decline significantly over the next few years tactically. It'd been a brilliant success. The hostages are being saved. The terrorists had being taken can out on the little of life apart from the incredibly brave Captain Cups Shuman. The mission had avoided civilian deaths but it wasn't bloodless Captain Schumann had been killed trying to keep everyone else safe. Three of the four hijackers were killed on the plane and when the news of the mission reached the R._A._F.. Prisoners in Germany they committed suicide and then we snacky came down and said the baader-meinhoff stunt homecare just committed suicide among kiss at that stage. We weren't really interested in them. It didn't register that they commit to how the hell they knew that the operation had been success so quickly who's just doing that. I don't know but the operation had a more constructive effect as well in the following year's special forces teams around the world studied Operation Fire Magic as the textbook hostage rescue from a hijacked plane as a young home navy seal officer we studied successful missions and this mission was one that we study the Oh in the late eighties early nineties weeds. The mission was sleep perfect mission of everything kind of working together at one time meaning the political side the intelligence gathering side negotiators and the five minute special operations drill that was stretched out into a four day or deal went pretty much flawless because once the special operators got there they created the diversion they created confusion with the stun grenades. They were able to get in and out of there with all passengers alive within five minutes completely successful mission the operation in Mogadishu put G._S._T.. Nine on the map and gave them a deserved reputation Haitian full tactical excellence proficiency on they built a reputation of a since in the next episode. Four women in Afghanistan were providing medical aid in crisis help when they were unexpectedly expectedly taken hostage it was unclear who was the enemy what they wanted so it would take both British and American forces and they would have to operate delicately military operation nowadays is is defined by what's called the curious fine location fixing making sure that the occasion when you finish which is the conduct of the operation also Kim. That's next time on covert covert is an audio boom in world media rights co-production posted by me Jaime renown it is produced by the audio booms Ben Host Rachel Jacobson Karen Beth and bypass Gal Hughes for World Media Rights. We had additional production help from world media rights by Gerald Zee Bangla. David mcnabb is the series creative director and the executive producers juicers for audio boom are Brendan Regan and Stewart lacks if you haven't already don't forget to follow us on spotify or subscribe on Apple podcasts Stitcher or wherever you find your favorite shows and if you've got some time.

Captain Mahmoud Jeanine Captain Cups Shuman Mahmoud Shot Schumann Mogadishu Captain Schumann Germany Dubai Somalia Lufthansa South Yemen alison Somali government Chris McNab assault Germany director Phoenix officer
Snake Oilers 10 part 1: Richard Bejtlich talks Zeek plus pitches from Respond Software and PATH Networks

Risky Business

55:35 min | 1 year ago

Snake Oilers 10 part 1: Richard Bejtlich talks Zeek plus pitches from Respond Software and PATH Networks

"Hi everyone and welcome to this is snake oil edition of the risky business podcast. My Name's Patrick Bribe. This isn't the weekly news show that we publish here at Risky Biz. This is something else I wholly sponsored podcast that features vendors talking talking about the tech. Everyone who appears in these snake oil is podcasts paid to be here. If you looking for the weekly show just scroll back one episode starred in your podcast Playa up at this point I kind of want to break protocol a little and talk about Al process importing these snake oil is podcasts together opt these days risky Biz gets a lot of inbound inquiries from vendors who are chasing sponsorship packages we have over six hundred security vandals. NFC Ram database and most of them are there because they inquired about sponsoring they reached out to us but in the end we wind up doing business with about twenty to twenty eighty five vendors in any given calendar year so this is my way of saying we can't just accept any sponsor who comes along now. Does this mean that we endorse awesome any of the vendors we featuring. They sponsored segments no it doesn't I mean I'm not practitioner. I cannot tell you these guys fantastic guaranteed tade but we generally select vendors four snake oil is who we think doing interesting things vendors who we think will give us an interesting and relevant conversation for audience about what they're doing and why and that's really what these podcasts are about. That's the process explainer out of the way so let me tell you about what's going to be in this edition. Shen of snake oil is in this podcast. You're going to hear from three vendors. I will hear from industry. Luminary Richard Bailey who is working currently with call call offer products based on Zeke which used to be known as Bro but yeah that that's a super cool chat with Richard and I let it run long because is it's Richard Bite Lick come on right so that one actually runs a little bit longer than the interviews in in oil is normally do then we're going to hear from Marshall Web from path networks. It's and that's also a really great interview that one Masha will be telling us about Abe an xt pay to technologies open source technologies that are really pushing the state of the art indeed AAs mitigation forward basically these two things now main that you can efficiently mitigate data's attacks with commodity hardware. We're so path has built a business around that and by the looks of things going after those arbor networks based services they've already got a terabyte per second of connectivity ability which is a lot of bits per second for a relatively new company but yeah they're idea is the data scrubbing and standby data scrubbing services shouldn't cost a fortune it's kind of a tax on business and they're using the lightest standards and the latest techniques to mitigate these attacks using commodity hardware and they're passing on the savings to customers. They've also built some really cool distributed network monitoring tools as well so the going on in that interview that is number two this time and then I lost snake oil it for this edition is respond software. They make a decision agent for socks basically but I guess that's kind of underselling they quite quite literally aiming to replace frontline salk analysts with software. Now the funny thing is right. You might think that that sounds a bit risky but say this out loud. We can't use a software agent for first line monitoring because we might miss something so yeah when you say it out loud. It's kind of funny right because everybody's already missing. Thank stuff response. Whole pitch is that they can bump out a list of like five serious things? Your sock should be doing that day. Instead of trolling through tens of thousands of meaningless context less alerts let's and when you finished with those five confirm serious things you can always go back and look at your logs but as you hear response customer actually starting to really trust it to do that first piece of analysis so so that is also an interesting chat so yeah. We got a bunch of stuff right bunch of stuff to talk through in this edition so let's kick it off now without chat with Richard has has previously appeared a few times as a guest on this podcast. I think you can really describe rigid as an industry luminary. He's been in the discipline since the ninety s he's written a bunch of books so on and so on and these days he is with Choline. Their goal is to transform network traffic into actionable data for analysis forensics and real time response response. Their product is based on the open source tool zeke which was formerly bro and Richard joined me to talk about it and he is what he had to say. If you think about got a spectrum of what you can learn about your network at one end of the spectrum you've got write everything to disk and that's a full content peak cap collection the other end of the spectrum you have tell me as best as you can just the things that I want to know that might be good or bad or however you define you. If you you WANNA have policy violations or whatever you call it now you can think you know going back to the PHILIPPIC APP. That's great but even in an era of inexpensive storage how you GonNa make use of that data on a daily basis at the other end the alerts would if you miss something what if you don't have an alert for whatever however the attack is so Zeke sits right in the middle of that and the idea behind it is to give you an idea the of what's happening on a network in a form that has enough detail that you can make some sense of it but not so much that it just takes a lot out of space and it's tough to index and all that it's a pretty simple idea but it turns out that there really aren't many products or offerings offerings in that space like the thing that we always like it's compared to quite often is net flow but Netflix for the most part is just a description of who who talked to who when how much data was passed piece protocols that sort of thing and we'll give you that with our connection log but then any protocol protocol that Zeke understands. We're GONNA give you data about that as well so let's say you've got a TCP connection and on top of that is an https session session. We're going to give you what we can from each bs which will end up being. SSL Data so we'll give you server names. We'll we'll tell you information about the certificates in if you want we can extract the certificates and you can save that to disk and all of this is linked through a connection. ID's so that or you ideas as they appear in the logs so that if you're trying to figure out what relates to what you're trying to do like you know your data science or whatever you WANNA call it on that information and it makes it easy to follow that chain and as it turns out it does a really nice place to be if you're trying to understand what's happening on your network because we the answer a lot of the questions that security person wants to know in a small footprint that can be saved for basically forever if you if you think about having adding some type of hot storage that goes into database or or spunk or Hemu or Google Chronicle or whatever and if you WanNa do cold storage just writing text files to disk or or Jesus files to disk and put it up in Amazon Glacier is something forever so that's that's the basic idea and we can we can expand and beyond that I'm sure yeah it. Kinda reminds me a little bit like it's similar to what the team at iceberg did that they were a small company wound pinquater by Gigamon. This was a bit different in that it streamed everything to the to the cloud and it was very much about metadata but what I found interesting about them and what I find interesting about coal is that here we are in two thousand nineteen when apparently network monitoring is dead and yet you exist and people are people are buying your stuff. I think the the death of network security monitoring has maybe been called a bit prematurely. Yeah I actually wrote a blog post early early on court late and the marketing team labeled it. NSM is dead. I I was a little shocked like Oh. No this is great. This is going to get around that I think. NSM is dead but it ended up. Just being a you know a click. I suppose the people would read the Post and his dad long live. NSM Yeah Yeah so there's no doubt out that it is not the same world as it was when I started in one thousand nine hundred seven hundred ninety eight back then if you saw something on the wire it was generally unencrypted and when it was a non binary protocol so let's say it was not a son remote procedure call or something like that. It was generally text so you could read it so it was simple. https you could read the page and see what it's doing if it was a file transfer over FTP you could read the commands and if it was telling that you could read the administrator or a criminal interacting with your system and that was a great way to figure out what was happening because it was just right there you know fast forward due to the last ten years or so and more and more traffic is encrypted. You can't do that anymore. It did kind of make a lot of the full packet capture stuff. That was very very trendy like a witness. There was another one God what was it called. It was the one that got sold to but that stuff was super hip for awhile and then everything started getting encrypted. That's like look at least captured packets. We've got that we can't read seamless soda well. There's an interesting workflow to that so the workflow the full many of the full package vendors particularly a company like net witness was around network forensics and it was a it was a similar approach that you would take jaquith file based forensics. Imagine you have a disc you want to extract all the artifacts rendered them in a way that an analyst can look through them and when they find the stolen invoice they ah that person's not supposed to have that on the computer the way that the network forensic vendors took it was the traffic was captured during certain periods was essentially the hard disk ask they would extract all the artifacts presented to the analyst that is generally not the same kind of workflow though that we've seen develop in the era of the modern sock and the the rise of of Sims generally what you would you find people doing is threat hunting. That's became popular for the last nine ten years or so. it's looking for something that you didn't necessarily know was bad and because of that you don't need to have every word document that was transferred on the wire to you the one hundred percent right and this is on looking at what's related which connection came from what other connection and whatever and what I've noticed to ride is you've got this a new breed of security vendor. That's coming up at the moment where they've clearly had a lot of design clearly a lot of design influence from people who've worked in incident response wants and I'm thinking in that case like companies like Alpha sock right which is Chris McNab who is very much an incident responder who's doing stuff like real time the main analytics and Ip analytics and things like that call. That's another one I had another one in my head but it's not quite there anymore but yeah I I'm definitely seeing that fusion fusion between people working incident response now saying well hang on if we had been looking at looking for this more at the time we might have had a better shot at detection here Yeah Yeah Yeah and that brings up a really interesting point you. When you buy our product there is an interface but it's essentially a sensor management health and welfare interface now? There may be some additional things coming to that. I've I've been encouraging and helping develop at core light but for the most part our product is built on giving you the data we don't WanNa be another pane of glass that you have to monitor and somehow integrate into your workflow so be initially. I thought this is GonNa be kind of difficult perhaps to due to sell to customers because they want to see the data but it turns out at this point in the in the market. Everybody's got a place for the data to go right. They already have their spunk. Infrastructure structure or the market honestly is being disrupted very heavily. I think companies like a back store companies the chronicle within Google with their back story product people are seeing that you can do a lot with with just really good high fidelity data whether it's from the host or in are cases from the network through through Corlett Zeke so we don't sell you painted glass. We give you good data that helps you understand what's happening and as a result of that where are our stuff appears in many locations and I should mention as well we do support the open source products Zeke we don't and we don't have like Zeke for commercial and Zeke open source. It's the same code it's just that we do quite a bit with the data before it leaves as the sensor and things like data reduction so that for example maybe you don't want all the fields and the connection logger you doing all the fields and the DNS log or you you know if you're going into a spunk environment and you just don't WanNa keep adding to your spunk bill. We can help you select just the fields that you wanNA send and as a result you pay the customers who choose to go down that road pay third less than they might have if they were just sending open source Zeke logs to to their sim okay so it sounds like and that's an interesting idea ride allowing you to tune it so you don't get hammered by spunk license fees. Could that's kind of what I picked up there. Is that right that's exactly right. I had a you know. All you can eat spunk license G so it wasn't even an issue we just dumped everything into interest paying for more disk but those days are pretty much over so the in in the modern world you have to pay licenses now. What's really cool about chronicle? This isn't supposed to be an advertisement for them but they have a per user model so rather within a volume based model. They'll take everything you send to to the system so that to me. That's really pretty exciting because what it what it results is we've got people who they have certain workflows about how they're trying to respond to intrusions are trying to find intrusions or even troubleshoot problems and they want to have the same type of data no matter where they're looking if they're looking on premise they want to have a certain type of network data if they're looking in their cloud infrastructure they want that so that's one of the reasons why we we started with hardware appliance but now we have these software offerings so again. If you just have your own virtual infrastructure at your company we have a software you know for VM ware and that sort of thing and then just in June we released the version that can go up and Amazon. Aws So because people want they want to say look. I've got a workflow. I want to be able to see my correlate to data matter where it is. I don't feel like I'm getting enough of the data in the right format format that I like from the tools so what can you guys do about it and thankfully. Aws introduce their virtual tap that makes that that at traffic available to our sensor so I mean what it sounds like you'll pitching here if you boil it down to its simplest terms is it is what you feel is a very high quality network network information censor strips out the relevant information and can put it can plug into your existing seem gear can plug it into your existing pint of gloss us and that's going to be useful for things like threat haunting perhaps detection if you put some rules about that higher up and certainly for things like incident response it's yes and what you've so nightly or nicely summarized that but that is only the foundation so if you do you get correlate and you just put it in your environment you get all of that but the Nice thing about core light is that because it's running Zeke is actually running Zeke. It's not running running something that just looks like Zeke or whatever because there's plenty of those out in the marketplace but you get that turing complete language underneath so you can introduce your own packages news you can alter the way the code works you can change the way our product works without having to have something on the road map. You know I can't tell me vendors. I used to work with where you'd say. Well you ever going to have this feature. Yeah yeah that's coming out in two quarter two of two years from now or whatever and it would never never arrive when you have someone introduce a new capability in Zeke like we just ran a package contest or responser to package contest for Zeke. There's new packages that good to be announced at Zeke in October up in Seattle Portland I can't remember somewhere in the Pacific northwest of the US but these are new capabilities abilities that have just been introduced by the open source community and if you like the way they work you can add them. If you want to modify them you can do that so I like to think of network appliances or network censors built on open source as being sort of a beachhead you can you can take the beach you can enjoy the beach and maybe stay there but if you wanna go farther inland you can because you have this the power of this open source engine underneath that could be modified by by your own users. I guess the last question here would be about deployment. I'm presuming that most organizations who use this at something that I put at the gateway on a mirror on a span port right. It's not something that they're putting everywhere internally yeah most people. This is the way I would generally advise if you're if you're in a legacy environment you want to instrument all your gateways so all the ways inner out of of your environment you know the area that you're responsible for at at a minimum I would instrument those gateways the next place to go. You know people call that a north-south deployment the next place to go would be again if you're talking to a big network. You're going to have sort of critical routers interior locations where a lot of traffic it's passed within the environment. That's typically called east-west so you'd want to deploy some sensors within that eastwest environment and then the final place we're talking about on premise enterprise environment. I'd I'd like to go near a critical infrastructure so if you have like this is our rnd network we really make sure we know who's using it. I would put a sensor there beyond that we we have the virtual sensors as well that you can put up in the cloud so we have people who are who are looking to deploy our sensor into do Amazon and honestly I'm really looking forward to seeing how that goes and and people are finding because it's a it's a whole new world up there so I'm guessing really the the colder action as they say in marketing speak for anyone listening to this. If you do have a Siem and you feel like you're not getting type of raw network visibility that you want. I mean that that's your ideal customer at this point right. Yeah Yeah and you know what I did a blog post just the other day addressing the issue of well if you don't have a Sim should you wait because we had some customers who said well. We're reevaluating our SAM. We want to make sure it works with the new version of light. You know obviously itself serving to say this but you don't need to wait there are many environments where you could just write the the output to disk and you just loaded into the simulator and even if you don't even look at that data over the month or two months or whatever uh-huh oh absolutely that's one of the only times I've disagreed with marcus random key. He used his very famous for saying don't collect logs. You never look at I said no you collect those things 'cause disc is cheap and later on when you find out your owned or or you suspect that your own you go back and you look at all that stuff I think I think Marcus I so you know I think he would be more railing against the people who had just storing stuff like in a completely unstructured way. I mean this at least has some rhyme and reason to it right yeah yeah yeah. That's true yeah. I see where you're coming from. Our data that is probably the biggest strength of it is that it is linked by those you. ID's and it if you're if you ever wanted like look at an open source project that was designed by like real smart people impacted invented this thing back in one thousand nine hundred five if you can imagine so it's a twenty four year old open source project the the quality of the engineering and the thought that went into it is really remarkable. It's amazing that the code has has performed so well over the years and can do all these sorts of things and it's also not you know it's it's optimized for the network but at the end of the day it's basically an event so there's there is code out there that will take in. Os Query event data treated as an event and you can have curry hurry data right alongside network data so that's kind of the future of where things are going. I think is you'll have more of this sort of unified logging where you're pairing information from an API call or from a host based product with the network so that you don't have to do it in the Senate will all come out of the event engine Zeke and if you WanNa put it there well Richard Bite Lick. It's great to have you back on the show. I believe you were on once or twice before quite some time ago now but it's it's been a very very good to chat to you and thanks for walking us through what you're working on over there at your welcome always nice to talk to your friend again and thank you to anyone who was listening that was Richard Bite Lick of their big thanks to him for that and you can find choline at Qalat Dot Com C. R. E. L. I. G. H. T. Dot com and yeah I can hardly see that their stuff would be worth taking spin. I mean it's easy to deploy so just give it a guard. See what it's like. Let me nor right okay onto our next snake oil now path networks path is doing some. I'm very interesting stuff with AB PF and exte- pay so I'll just do a quick explain it but he explains it better in the actual interview a quick example well. If like extra pay what that allows you to do is to push network rules to your commodity smart Nick Network cards and that means that the routing decisions aren't being made by the host hours they're not even hitting the OS conal they being made on the actual nick and the obvious benefit to that is speed a lot of speed and in fact you can now use extra pay to build very effective data's filtering equipment. That's competitive against expensive specialist hardware and you can do yeah on commodity hardware next guest Marshall Webb founder of path has seen a market opportunity to provide data protection file larva to a market. That's kind of being extorted a little bit by the incumbent players not all of them but some of them path offers these mitigation services to customers at a a pretty substantially reduced cost compared to the incumbents and they also don't try to screw new customers who are under attack and need the situation resolved quickly they get them back online first first and then they talk Turkey and contract later which is sadly not how it works with some of these other companies they also offer a really interesting network monitoring service. It's it's actually pretty clever the way they've done that they trade access to the VPN service to people who are willing to run the network test agent on their personal mobile devices and the end result is that path has some pretty amazing visibility from a whole bunch of different places around the world. It's kind of a bit like the atlas network visibility stuff but with a modern twist list being those mobile devices or the thing being used. It's not a dedicated hardware appliance anymore. Path also offers security consulting to they've found once they start doing business with new customers. That's something they want from them but Yeah Marshall Web join me to talk about path networks and I started by asking him to explain what actually is an Dan. He is what he had to say. Yes so x t p express data path links teepee is basically a new technologies to be adopted by the the L. Let's community in embedded in the new modern Lewis Colonel would exit appeal as us to do is push customers and real sense directly to aw Spartan Knicks and different vendors who support smart technology such as melanoma CTS rid leverage these commodity number cards on our mitigation devices and then leverage them to push on different rules and filters directly onto the never cards that we use in our devices so there's definitely fleet greatly expedites the way that we're able to filter different needle stacks out rebel do closer to line rate on on her never Kurds urge which is important as most based around one hundred Gigabit Ethernet so having those fast speeds are very important to us now every every second counts when we were trying to mitigate an attack and Abe is I mean it's not quite the same thing but it's something else it's another technology that allows you to optimize for data's eight US mitigation right exactly exactly SUPERPAC Berkeley. peccadillo turned is a fairly older technology. I mean everyone who's ever used. Ip tables Abel's on the interacted with it in some way what Berkeley packet filters have always allowed us to do business rules that we like to tease to protect actor but what did you has done is its provide a very easy pipeline to work with. ADP and in as as stated before we push I those whose those rules tricks on the silicon in another way so that we don't have to abstract that still you got a blog post on this stuff that you wrote up in April and there's a line I really like which is you feel sometimes like you're counting yourself on the bleeding edge which you know I've I've known other people in that taught in that situation before because okay these technologies exist that's great but getting them to work at a reliable way. There's a little bit of expertise involved there. Yeah absolutely absolutely so a lot of what we ran into the you know with this technology coming out with some new you know there is a a litany of our technologies acknowledged that kind of paved the way this picturing copy net map overtime. We had DP de que but fortunately we kinda you know we we put our money on the winning horse and fortunately next ep kind of pulled away became the standard so now that's been adopted by you know by the limps colonel it's definitely definitely on greatly enhanced support that it has and it's made it much much easier to Emma on to work with in terms of commodity years so Yes we're Kinda referred to that is is the lack of any sort of existing applications. You know prior art that we can refer to you know a lot of there's a lot of code online. Obviously with something is news this. It's hard to Poland information that you might see something. That's a little bit older and as a result all we can add to travel as a little bit in that aspects of you know the the value all the equipment you know obviously buying commodity here on definitely helps us out in terms of merging the along the effort was expended around getting the code basis together working through shrinking bugs or issues with the other the the somewhat nascent you know ex-sdp code base and then put all that together the solution so it's Kinda what we refer to when we say that and then obviously you know there's other technologies that kind of play roller stack that we've had to fight with the maintainers of the s flew Kodak that's used by okay okay. we maintain that code base on we were actually giving ownership other just due to all the various patches that we to to kind of bring it up to speed so if someone comes along and stopped submitting patches and maintaining it's like hey do you want this to be yours. That makes sense right. Yeah sorry it allows us to give give back a little bit you know reload the were enabled to contribute Tribu Tuten in help. You know help everyone else at the same time so that's that makes a lot of sense so look at the end of the day right. What this means is that you can you can you've effectively you figured out how to use these open? Source Technologies are these open source software to engineer data equipment that runs on commodity hardware. I mean the tail all the are is. That's what that's one big pot of. What path dots right exactly that's correct yeah so so you've customs I believe you've got some? ISP's and and hosting companies using the stuff one of your public customizes Cable Bahamas which makes sense because those island nations are particularly vulnerable to data stuff so how'd you deploy to your customers. Is something where you know you're you're upstream from them and they they're providers is that that's that's where your gear is installed redoing this as a cloud based filtering is it always on is it a is it just configured in a file over mode like how you actually taking this democracy yes great question so the answer questions the biggest that these that we deploy this is typically a on demand type solution so obviously lost comes in a few flavors in terms of solutions yet always on yeah yet on the band and then the house you know some short vibrates solution that does both so in our case what we see most clients tend to prefer especially those in the hosting or ISP space latency is always going to be very important. we try to try to keep it in on demand solutions so that works they'll typically configuring their edge never to export flows to US typically Sam close either s flow Netflix with the sampling on but pretty agnostic in terms of what we can adjust my p. six as well taken and then based on the floor tradition that we get we analyze restored Ninja history on it and then if we detect anomalies we know that's when we need to do an advertisement cut over so that point will wilson community string and then trigger policy-based trailing to make sure that they announced those prefixes overdose in at that time I will start to skirl than kick clean trap back typically. We'll do this over on jury tunnels do yeah. Is it physical interconnection Pilla circuit now for a company that I'm guessing most listeners haven't heard of like you've got a lot of gigabits. What's your what's the capacity that you've actually got because it's a lot yeah so our current edge never capacities touching unattended the per second when you take into the Internet exchange ports and stuff that we have so we're currently at Equifax L? A. One equifax white nine in Equifax hand seven in Amsterdam so we have a three points appears in Sun until currently on we partner with NTT Intel you mafia bad now. Look I know one of the strategies going to market with this is to say look way using commodity hardware. We're using open source technology. This isn't like an urban networks situation Shen where we've got a lot of iron de costs to recoup from you know things like specialists silicon on whatever like that. That's the old game. This is the new game so one of the you know the the big city marketing points from you is that like you actually look cheap right and and in addition to that you don't Gouge and have special pricing for people who currently under attack right which is something that various upstream companies have been known to do from time to time exactly exactly our goal is to keep people online shorter things on and then you let liquor point so on trade a builder around that branding and we definitely have a much better emerging in terms of how we've holter stack and just have a modern stack. We can't things that are pretty good times in terms of technology. you know one hundred gig Ethernet become affordable. Do you come to the market and you know the commoditisation of smarter Kurds and we've been able to Kinda ease. This really cut down. What let you know the cops traditionally are in the space on its typically sign people up on like a rolling standby contracts thing? Is that how that works we we still we still long-term contracts increase through your contracts but we're much more flexible belt neon wooden. Promise of somebody news is immediately. Getting attacked will usually usually on board and I rebelled workout a contract later. The main goal is just to help people get through the media attacks. Idiocy is without trying discreet contract signed exactly exactly yeah yeah so look. This isn't the only thing that you do right there. There is also the network monitoring stuff and I think this is really cool. 'cause like you've actually managed to build up a pretty decent network of clients out there that can run tests for you right so you've got a a pretty decent analytics business by stuff that yeah exactly so we have both passively accept the provides more context passer than flow based. I love that it's just you know remote expectation networks grew the company will continue to vices to send that over to them but then the other kirks will be who's the active analytics the active analytics district because we've basically taken a similar to Ripen Lewis Acceptance Software Right Atlas had on hardware region that you could deploy on at your place of business. You're in your home that Negoti participated in in the in the network he could trolling the garden. We took that similar model income tweaked it. He's built a software agent runs on a mobile phones. Not As people walk around your travel today today business well-connected alums if Hans your networks in as a result we glean inside null this Oman's probes into yards tracer outs even layer seven health checks from this device and because of the geographic dispersion constitutes a pretty pretty good insight into held if you're seen certain non certain tracks so what this allows us to do is basically in a portrait for routing we can monitor Propagation Commander under SLA enforcement on measure latency or repack loss on different interfaces on that they may be cured up with and in doing so from all these different nations. We can really get a good picture of rank anomalies. Take place if you this is this is very valuable if you're doing any casting or if you're multi home l. never which most tend to be now that things have scaled up on and that's pretty important so having the heaven that kind of keep up with the way they nets corwin a win is Kinda. were in obviously as mitigation company we kind of built the you know I on we wanted to basically have better better insight into how we could measure the indicating that we have looking for Radin balances and other things like that and this was the best we could figure out how to do and then once it's not who decided to go to market with it and we've had a lot of interest in it all right Sir Marshall Webb I guess what do you want the listeners to do here. I guess you're most interested interested in hearing from people who are hosting who are running telcos that seems to be the the the core group of customers there. I'm guessing you WanNa you WanNa hear from them. I think the biggest thing that we wanna see is just if they if they have any desire held you know improving the analytics that they can see what in southern networker if they have any issues with with Diaz tax or in Earth or need a mitigation or if they're they're looking at that big arbor contract and trying to make a decision then I would hope that they would a participant consideration ration- and see if we could you know help them out or give them a at least another option aright so people can find information more information on path networks at path dot net. I'm going to drop a couple of weeks into the show notes for this podcast including to read that blog post about PF and X. D. pay but Russia web. It's been a pleasure to chat to you my friend and look best of luck with it because I think this business segment that you playing in it has got a little bit style l. Sorry it's really great to see some people jumping in with with a lot of obvious energy to try to shake things up a bit. No Harper goes well. We're we're here. Lebanon also Patrick. Thank you so much that was Marshall Web there from path networks and you can find them at path dot net right which is a killer domain name. I think and yeah I think this is this data's mitigation. Market is a market that has been Giuffra shakeup the quite a while so it's immensely satisfying to see some moves in that direction. It's one thing for the technology to do this easily to exist. It's another thing for a company like Pasta actually go out there and start doing stuff with it and ironing out all of those bugs so good job. Path I came up next is our third and final snake oil it for this edition respond software yeah now we did a great soapbox edition with respond about a year ago with I explained the basic thinking behind their product. I will link through to that in show notes for this episode and I'll just say that respond came too risky Biz by way of a referral from someone I know and respect to absolutely loves their software but yeah the whole idea. YEA is respond offers a decision engine that can replicate so much of the grunt work takes place in a modern sock. Anyone who runs a sock knows how hard it is keeping keeping up with alerts and how much of that I touch work is just mind-numbingly boring and the sad thing is analysts often miss serious stuff and wind up chasing issues and wasting a bunch of time right so they're real efficiency problems there so the team at response software have developed a decision engine designed to replace those level one and sock operators entirely now some people will be skeptical about that they'll think how can you trust a software agent but next guest respond. Vp Chris Miller says assist. That's kind of what's happening. Naturally people buying respond to augment their decision making and then they just going okay look clearly doing a good job so we're just going to rely on that now right so so that's kind of interesting they call it at. It's very American way to put things but they call it their their customer trust journey so so they got it anyway. Here's what Chris had had to say about what respond customers are up to these days last time monitoring in there you know they're sitting there not spending hours and hours a day looking at all the the alerts they're waiting for the respond analyst pop out alerts and it's been very significant for us right to see this change as customers are essentially on trump's journey with us because as you move away from human analysts in the human role is obviously going to be skepticism around that for most everybody right in just whether it's in the security industry or any industry that we're in so as we see so you know that change happening. It's getting really exciting for us and I think for our customers. There's a few different approaches to that problem of trying to get you know salk operate as a wife doing dumb stuff all the time and this is one of them by the sounds of things it's quite effective and I also believe with something like respond. Look what was the statistic statistic that we used in the in the LAS recording we did with you that yeah. Two billion events got crunched down to three hundred fifty alerts right so so that's that's an excellent start. It seems to me that like you know everything that you're going to be flagging is going to be real. Sorry maybe even if you even if it feels like you don't even have to make the claim that it's comprehensive and flagging everything because at least you know whatever it does flag is real and that's a good starting point. Is that kind out of the way customers looking at this in is that how they trust leap yeah I believe so because they're not giving up on their sins right. They're not throwing their sends out or whatever else they were using up to this point so it's not this sort of ripping replaced. It's actually a sort of a better together story right. How how do you bring in additional technology that has great detection logic that none of the other tech is due in a new approach to it and so it's additive in this case right and so we're seeing customers bring it in that way and then eventually as the as the trust builds are able to start to make some some tougher decisions that they might not have not chose fronts right a tough decision might be moving away from their emphasis P. Right and relying on respond analysts to do that monitoring piece? You're not the security device management than MSZP's provide. You know it's a great service that you know that they would offer the monitoring piece where they can off load it. You know to the analyst Yeah. That's a pretty dramatic change for a customer and we're seeing those kinds of things but only only over time. It's definitely sort of an added of approach upfront. I think the MSSP people listening to this will probably not like me saying this but you know that that type of service log monitoring MSSP has kind of been a compliance check box for a long time and no one's really expected to get any value out of it. I mean you know the famous case of the the target hack where there was an and there was a sock person who actually flagged that out out of some fire. I kid it was a firearm and then you know just no one kind of took it seriously because it was lost in a deluge of other alerts I mean that's really the problem. You're trying to solve here. Yeah we would love to see. MSSP's take our technology. We think anyone who's doing tier. One sock level analysis they should be automating right and now these tools are are starting to be available and they should should leverage them. Emerson's piece could do right is offload that even in their own operation ration- and then focusing on that higher value service but their customers whether that's you know threat hunting people are looking for manage threat hunting type services deeper deeper investigation. I are services to help them. Through a breach breaches occurring music things that emphasis piece could be you're sort of transitioning to while they're you know taking that responsibility of that tier one monitoring off their plate because what it often results Zan and this is the complaint you'll hear from customers. Most often is many many false positives that results in customer spending hours and hours trying to run down down only to find out that it wasn't anything to be concerned about the funniest description of that base level sock work is someone might say who it was but it was they were saying knowing that it's like sitting in front of the same console is kind of like tinder for malicious behavior. You don't yes no yes yes. That's that's kind of the work floor and you know it's just a recipe for mistake so I'd imagine like having something that gives you at least a priority list to work through first before you start going through the manual process like and and might be might be a good place to start now. Refresh my memory on how responded actually deployed deployed as seem helper into spunk or do you actually take a feat of all of the logs into some some on Prim equipment yourselves like what is the actual deployment model yeah we actually have multiple models models for for deploying the technology probably the the most common one for us right now is there's an on premise component called respond analysts analysts server and then there is the decision engine our respond decision engine. It's in the cloud you would point your security technologies your sturdy devices send those alerts to on premise analysts server and then from there it talks to our decision engine in the cloud and brings back these decisions when we see something that's militias and actionable right. That's the decision criteria that we're trying to meet that is the traditional way that we do it. we also offer the ability instead of forwarding the events from the security the devices themselves we can forward it from the Sim- yeah. I was wondering I that was exactly what I was gonNA. Ask if you could just joop it out of the Sim right absolutely because because you know if customers already doing centralize collection in log management wherever they're doing that we'll take the feed from that and so we built integrations with all all the SIM products you know the common ones as well as a data link type solutions wherever you've got it. That's where we WANNA take. It can also do the solution the full cloud so you still have to you know send us the alerts whether that's coming from your Sam from security devices but we could have on our analysts servers also in the cloud and you can just do the full cloud approaches well that's less common customers tend to want to have that on trump's component where odd they did have a little more control over that part of the infrastructure yeah makes sense and I'd imagine the on Prem stuff. He's doing a lot of stuff like stripping out relevant bits and shunting that up into the cloud rather than the hall kitten caboodle you do a little bit of sorting on Prim and then trump the interesting stuff to the cloud. Is that out works. We do some sorting Cram Yeah No. That's that's a great way to center. Yes uh-huh we're extracting what we what we need to make a good decision and that's not all the data right. There's only certain aspects or fields of of the security data that we're collecting that we're pulling out in sending so yes yep that makes a lot of sense so last time I spoke to someone from respond spawned there was like about ten commonly used technologies that could talk to respond and respond with would be able to analyze those logs. I believe really the last year for your your company has been about just expanding the number and types of technologies that you're able to actually ingest right yeah that is correct. You know a lot of products out there even in the same category you take. IDs I t s as a as a category. There's a dozen different vendors out there that everyone's using so if you're gonNA appeal right to to the customer base you have to have coverage there and so a lot of the the energy is going into building. You know the connections to to those products the integrations for for all of them across the different categories that we cover and we've always is there a particularly popular combination of solutions that vendors tend to come to you with like. Can you say that respond works particularly well well when you using technologies X. Wines it with all the technologies that we you know we have models built for it it. Just there's interesting examples. Would you take take your vendor like a Palo Alto. That has the entire security stack in their own product when we could connect into their their full stack it makes makes it interesting for any customer. That's that's a powerful shop client venue signaling exactly and Powell out been doing very well. All I mean they're very prolific in the market so for us it makes sense to make sure that we will match with their coverage so that might be one example yeah. So what are some of the new vendors window is that you've moved to support lost twelve months will say well the the thing that we're working on probably the most this is not out yet but on the Dr side you know getting the crowd stripes for example crowd strike carbon black. ETR Technology has gotten really popular. Everybody's dotted deployed. We're still seeing the need to put additional decision logic on top of these feeds to help customers prioritize and understand exactly what's malicious. It's just an actionable so we've been spending a lot of time in in that area. As of late the the other thing that we've been doing is contextual will sources so being able to ingest. DHCP this is this is a great feature that we've added so that as I t addresses are changing aging inside of environment we keep track of of those assets right. This is proven out to be pretty useful to our clients. At this point. Vulnerability Vulnerability Stan integration being able to tape vulnerability stamp data in as a contextual source in order to make decisions has been You know something that's also useful to us. That's been one of the holy grails doesn't security is being able to cheering out like exploitation attempts against stuff. That's patched like that has been. That's been something people have been trying to do for years and it's surprisingly hod yet you know the other thing. That's cool about. Boehner ability scan data is that we can infer things like asset criticality from from the fee. If we see that there's server ports are open. You can infer that that's a critical asset right into server. It's running different services that are going to be higher criticality tallied. Let's say a workstation so you start to get those kinds of advantages right when you get that type of feat that makes sense that makes a lot of sense actually and it's it's funny. Isn't it that really what we're talking about about it. A lot of these security automation stuff is we're just talking about taking common sense stuff and automating it and you know this is why I'm very proud of all of you for not. I'm trying to go the machine learning artificial intelligence marketing route right. It's much more about like Oh yeah okay that box ports open. It's on the network and those ports correspond respond to like a SAP service. We probably want to escalate alerts targeting that machine a little bit more. I mean it makes a lot of sense yeah and the way that we like to think about it it is it's probably not any one approach that's going to win. It's going to be a combination of approaches now. We do some analysis well. That's that's an aspect of it right but that's not the whole thing right we leverage Beijing math. We have math is part of our bodily conditional probabilities. You're we're leveraging different techniques sort of you know the best fit for the problem right best Matt for the problems what we said we that's that's the approach right that the debtor industry needs to take it's not gonna be. It's GONNA be a hybrid of sorts in order to get to these answers because the problems are complex right and so you've got to use the right tool for the right problem yeah it's like. Is this an attack. Well it depends I'd imagine a lot of the engineering that's pointing to imagine. A lot of the engineering that's going to respond would be really just thinking thinking through those curly ones and wondering what context you need to actually make a call roll on in a given scenario and then figuring out how to automate that we're trying to do and what we're what we're seeing happen is it if we can offload flowed this task. What could you do with your time and your budget if you didn't have to spend it on level one sock analysis right right and we start to see how organizations can unlock that budget and apply it to other security projects? Which essentially are you know? Things are going to help reduce reduce risk in an organization right and this is where the your the promise really really comes is that when you've got that opportunity and I we'll take care you take advantage of this. You know you're able to see that kind of change where you're investigating on average one or two or five alerts today I talked to any sock. They would be so jealous if they had to look at you know five incidents that came out of the respond analysts versus the thousand that they normally have to look at on a daily basis right now it is it changes the game by orders of magnitude and it's that kind of change change that I think you're SORTA transforms in industry. I think Chris One of your best selling points. There is people might be a bit scared of it and say well. What if we miss something because we're relying on an automated agent? It's like well you missing stuff already like that's just that's just reality because in the console just because it's in the console it doesn't mean you level one like some analysts are gonNA catch it did not well and in fact the way that our software works is that we analyze a security event. We're looking at it from dozens of dimensions whereas in dozens of questions that if a human analysts had the time the energy in the skill to ask they would on every single alert so our belief is that we can outperform the human analysts and you should be asking more right the question the other way right not so much. How do you respond did miss something but it's how do you know you're not missing something? That's exactly right. I I mean with all of the technology that we feature in snake oil as I mean I've never used respond software but it's the sort of thing you know in these sort of conversations you have convinced me at least that you know where I am responsible for running a sock that it would certainly be looking into Chris Roller. Thank you very much for joining us to give us a bit of an update on where respond is at an. I wish you the best of luck with it all right thank Patrick that was crystal or their of respond software big. Thanks to him for that and Yeah Respond Office. Both live trials and historical trials are their free will you can just get it to crunch historical logs and compare. It's out the things you know we're real during that period or you can throw it in for live trial and just have it running and you saw can you you can you can get a really good idea of what sort of outputs you're gonNA get out of. It and you have absolutely nothing to lose by at least taking it. I been you can check them out at respond. DASH SOFTWARE DOT COM so that's respond DASH SOFTWARE DOT COM and that is it for this edition of the snake oilers podcast. I do hope you enjoyed it and yeah I have. I have enjoyed this right which is kind of not Wanna expected when I started doing these sponsored podcast a couple years ago I mean there was a part of me when I launched a series. That felt like I was a massive sell-out bought God help me. I actually enjoy doing these. I joined the conversations ninety percent of the vendors vendors who participate really smart and super bowl to deal with so yeah not what I expected when I started off doing this we will be running a soapbox edition next week for you you because which is another fantastic podcast chatting with all about the latest line of Yuba keys and where they're going. That's super cool weeks from now will be

Zeke analyst cloud US Richard Sir Marshall Webb Patrick Bribe Netflix Marshall Web Marcus Abe Risky Biz Richard Bailey Chris McNab Masha Al
3: Feuerzauber: Lufthansa Hijack, Part 1

Covert

39:19 min | 1 year ago

3: Feuerzauber: Lufthansa Hijack, Part 1

"October Thirteenth Nineteen seventy seven Lufthansa Flight L. H.. One eighty one nicknamed lunch short had begun boarding for a late morning flight. It was taking off from the the island of my Llorca just off the coast of Valencia Spain onboard five crew members and ninety passengers eighty six passengers had spent the week exploring the island beaches luxury resorts and Roman ruins ruins. The other four were up to something else around eleven A._M.. The plane rolled off the tarmac and set off into the sky for the pilot and crew of light was routine not but not for long what began as a normal flight changed completely as the aircraft in Marseilles the two terrorists the back of the plane to the front all of a sudden they all stood up welcome to covert a show about the shadowy world of international espionage and top secret military operations or the G._S.. JEANINE is a law enforcement agency very similar to our F._B._i.. Hostage Rescue Team so there are federal law enforcement group of force to deal with hostage situations kidnappings extortions blackmail. I'm Jamie Rennell and I'm going to take you inside. History's greatest special forces missions to learn about the brave save soldiers and operatives risked their lives to terminate the world's most wanted eliminate terrorist threats and protect countless innocent lives humidity listed Kitman we needed fishing party is a seven in three seven and the next was vehicles in case by also ladders shotguns pistols uniform coating all saints identify ourselves and everything getting elsewhere. We really wanted masking tape. A plane full of German citizens had been hijacked but who were these terrorists and what did they want to find out it would take a trip all over the world and a collaboration between two countries countries special forces the German G._S. G nine and the British Special Air Service Gist Unite cracking force but really very little operational experience on the s were developing these skills for Northern Ireland and from other little terrorist incidences on. I guess yes you get these guys on both Ms. Let's have an observer team on board to see if they can help us him and I think this is the story of how Special Forces came together and formed a rescue mission even as they followed hostages across a seven countries and six thousand miles. This is foiled Saalbach Lufthansa hijack part one <music> flight eight one L. E. H. on the lands at Pomme de to Frankfurt flight time today's two hours and fifteen minutes here by today showman for about thirty he minutes the plane continued on its normal course passing over Marseilles France on its way to Frankfurt as the plane veered north. The cabin crew prepared refreshments for the passengers ex U._S.. Navy Seals Stew Smith explained explained that air travel was different in the nineteen seventies were airline security was completely relaxed in the seventies and eighties. I mean he used to be able to get on an airplane without checking bags. No one would have metal detectors actors on you could smoke on planes. I mean there are so is a whole different world back then so it was a great asset for a terrorist organization to get publicity and they would get publicity whether it was ransom money or it was getting their prisoners who were held captive in some prison freed and that's typically what they use these airplanes for that relaxed security he soon translated into into full blown panic. The atmosphere changed sudden as four hijackers stood up wielding guns Chris McNab is the author of storming flight one eighty one the two terrorists the back of the plane to the front and all of a sudden they all stood up the screaming shouting the terrorist produce pistols hungry nights exposes the passengers realize instantly. This is a hijack situation before terrorists were calling themselves the commando Mando Martyr Halima a reference to an Air France hijacking in nineteen sixty three they heard the passengers to the back of the plane they wanted all of the hostages visible and they were not especially gentle. Stew Smith offered a comment on hostage violence. When the terrorists I takeover playing the first thing they want to do is create fear on that point and the way they do that is they usually grab some innocent bystander in this case a stewardess and they either kill them or they hit them so far that crushes their face blackens and I- bloodies knows one of the men was is the obvious leader of the group and made straight for the cockpit the co-pilot Organ V._A.? Tour was ordered to stand with the passengers captain. Yoga and Schumann was held at gunpoint. He simply Paul Johnson co-pilot outlet seat he still holding the gun he takes. The pilots puts it on his head and settles into copilot's seat. The plane is now his he announced to all the passengers that he had taken over the aircraft and that he was in control. This was a moment of sheer tariff era all the passengers. They knew that everything had changed their lives on the line. The crew knew that if they didn't comply the consequences would be laid on the passengers. They had no choice but to surrender the leader. Called himself captain martyr mock mood he ordered Captain Schumann to fly the plane to lanark Cyprus except that would add six hours to the planned flight. They didn't have nearly enough fuel so instead. They rerouted to roam the first destination for L._A.. Twenty eight one was Romance Court Rome Mahmoud issued some of his first demands it took about an hour to reach the destination and when the plane touched down the terrorists radio the Italian Italian control tower. Finally they revealed what they wanted the four hijackers aboard the flight all members of the A._F._l.. Pay Palestinian terrorist organization they all hug tra- records violence but all of phonetically committed committed to that cause and they were wanting to see through to the end the P._f._l._p.. Is the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine. The group gained notoriety during the nineteen seventies notably for a series of plane hijacks. So what were they hoping to gain seen from this attack. What they wanted was the release of two Palestinian terrorists along with eleven members of the notorious Baader Meinhof group also known as the Red Army Faction? This was a German left-wing group known for bombings and kidnappings within Germany. Many members of the Red Army Faction or R._A._F.. had been arrested and detained in Germany. The hijackers also demanded fifteen million dollars. If the demands weren't net the four terrorists onboard would blow up the plane killing. All of the hostages is key demands. Was We feel this plane or we didn't go to the Italian authorities compliant. Hey listeners. You got a beard. Do you stink. Do you need some help grooming yourself. I want you to check out Duke Canon Dot Com my latest box. I had the best damn beard bomb for the beard of a world champion not for clowns a fine line exists between the well groomed beard of a world champion and the unruly brush of a crazed mountain Hobo Mount WanNa look like a Hobo. I'm just saying aw do cannon partners with active duty military to develop new ideas and review products. They're also really committed to giving back to the men and women who serve our country. That's why a portion of their proceeds go directly to support veteran causes and quite frankly frankly. It doesn't get any better than that so I want you to go. Pick up a big ass brick as soap or some best damn beard wash or solid Cologne or maybe even some bloody knuckles. If you have dry hands like I do just don't be surprised when you're using this stuff all of a sudden you feel a little bit better about yourself so here's what I want you to go to Duke Canon Dot Com right now and get fifteen percent off your first order with the Promo Code Covert Free Shipping on orders over thirty five bucks. That's that's fifteen percent off your first order. Promo Code Covert Duke Canon Dot Com back in Germany. The job of dealing with the crisis landed on the desk of hans-jurgen Vishnevsky Vishnevski a minister in the German Chancellery Vishnevsky also had to clear the ground with the other countries for an inevitable armed assault with ninety. One hostages lives at stake they would be ready to take any action necessary surgery and that action would fall to Germany's newly-formed elite Special Forces G._S. Jeanine Former U._S.. Navy SEALS DO Smith Explains G._S.. Jeanine his a law enforcement Kevin Agency very similar to our F._B._i.. Hostage Rescue Team so there are federal law enforcement group and they were tasked with creating a force to deal with hostage situations kidnappings kidnappings extortions blackmail all types of different crimes. They're trained in diving. They're trained in hair shooting. Coming out of helicopters fast roping rappelling trained sniper for operations in close quarters combat G._S.. Jeanine had only been established a few years earlier in nineteen seventy three. It was the direct result of a terrible attack on September fifth nineteen eighteen seventy two at the Munich Olympics Palestinian terrorists took Israeli athletes hostage at the Olympic Village. The German police and military launched a rescue raid but it went terribly wrong. All of the hostages ages were killed in the aftermath. Germany worked to create an anti terrorist group so that this wouldn't happen again if G._S.. Jeanine did end up reading the plane. It would be their first ever mission. The new team was led by forty eight year old Arik Vega Colonel Wagner was the driving force behind G._S.. He had some experience working with the British S._A._S.. <hes> also had experience working with with Israeli special forces groups and he was able to take a lot of that knowledge bring it into the federal law enforcement agency within Germany and create this souped up Swat team that primarily primarily focused on anti-terrorism Colonel Wagner not only was a great tactician and well respected by his men but he was also able to work the politics of the SWAT team G._S. Jeanine and work in a way that enabled them to get a lot more equipment despite vegas training and personal experience the fact remained G._S.. Jeanine had no experience with terror attacks and a plane Vegan realized that conducting a raid on a hijacked plane might be a little out of his depth so he put in a call one one thousand miles away in Great Britain Special Air Services Sergeant Berry Davies arrived home from training. We then finished any throw and we drove back in terrorist vehicles poke them up but bags and it was. Friday evening fog was set in quite badly and I just missed all the guys and I went home. He had just walked in the door when his beeper went off and he had to turn right back around to camp the office of the British Prime Minister was looking for him the head of the commentary team there and he informed me that we had to go to London and as a fog we're so bad we jumped in the helicopter and we flew in the fog or way to London. We jumped over the gate by I see a report and we did that. Show enough pentecost pulled up and got the two scruffy individuals we said look outside there we met several officials and also Alex How's Morrison major at the time and we went to Matan Barry was taken to number ten the government headquarters to find a variety of security heads waiting for him there he was debriefed about the situation with the German flight had security and my five six and all these various people the prime minister was stuck up North into faulk so you said for the ministers make a decision and we happen to know that the plane he just got re fueled. The state of the passengers were doing and they asked us we got this information and we said from Debbie. David Bullock was a former S._A._S.. Agent who is doing ops training and Dubai bullock had the most up to date info on the plane's whereabouts the information we had on the terrorist was basically Palestinian apart from not. We really didn't know anything else about the there was a a discussion about the leader who seemed to be really powerful although they didn't paint him to who actually was they felt that he was he would destroy the aircraft or he would and kill people and get his own way. Berry met with the G._S.. Jeanine troops would be conducting the raid. It was decided that Berry and another S._A._S. officer Sergeant Alastair Morrison would fly out and join the German forces in the rescue rescue attempt Nigel Elliott a former S._A._S.. Fighter explained why the German forces wanted S._A._S. Assistance Jess Jeanine cracking force but really very little <hes> operation from experience but the S._A._S. were developing all these <hes> skills from Northern Ireland and from other little terrorist incidences around the world <hes> I guess yes you know yeah. Let's let's list of these guys on both let's. Let's observe a team on board to see you know if they can help us out the S._A._S.. As various contingency plans one of those plans was to form a counter terrorist team and that already been done some years before we we tracked his tongue buildings aircraft practice on trains and we found the best way to get in place we developed equipment to replace found the best methods of snatching somebody from room and taking hostages event that room covert surveillance assaults salts with it with a big one how quickly can get in from the standpoint to actually closing with a terrorist and saving hostages the team now assembled the next step was to find out more information on the terrorists but as Chris McNab explained the more they learned the more concerned they became captain. Mahmoud's reeling was zoo hack okay. This was an intelligent on very dangerous terrorist he'd begun in refugee camps in the Middle East where he become radicalized but he's also a clever man he trained in Renault's engineering in the U.. K. Any length how to fly Cessna aircraft WBT but he was ruthless it also been involved in a cessation in London in one thousand nine hundred seventy seven and also in two assaults on police officers in the U._k.. This was a committed individual in Rome. The launch shoot finished refueling and took off now headed for Cyprus after the initial hijacked the flight is taken on this tortuous journey around the Middle East and the Mediterranean hopping from airport to airport some airports refuse entry of allow the aircraft to land some epochs refused London but the pilots still goes ahead and puts it down all the while the conditions in the plano worsening on the terrorist into getting more and more tense the plane landed landed in Cyprus and the local government took action a local Palestinian activists tried to speak with mock mood but negotiations went nowhere soon the plane took off again now headed towards the Middle East. They were denied landing rights in Beirut Damascus and Baghdad. Imagine the challenges facing Captain Shuman has to pilot the aircraft to destinations hunting pun destinations are refusing him entry and all the while with a Donovan his head on the threat of the aircraft being destroyed incredibly he holds his nerve. He manages to negotiate every single difficult situation he comes to on the way to Bahrain captain. Schumann was told at the airport was closed. They didn't have enough fuel to go anywhere else and so they landed anyway. Immediate plane was surrounded by troops Mahmoud was annoy he threatened the co-pilot until the Bahraini authorities allowed them to refuel then they took off once again. They were now headed to Dubai. It had been over fifteen hours since the hijack again. Hey folks. I WANNA take a second to talk about livestream. You know the average interest rate on credit cards right now is over nineteen percent A._p._R.. Do you know what yours is. I'm not a financial expert. 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M. dot com slash covert subject to credit approval rating includes zero point five zero zero percent auto pay discount terms and conditions apply and offers her subject to change without notice visit livestream dot com backslash covert for more information October Fifteenth Nineteen seventy seven day three the Lon shoot landed once again without permission Dubai airport. The terrorist ask for more supplies for the aircraft food water and garbage collection passengers were still tired and hot meanwhile Barry Davies and the rest of the G._S.. G Nine and S._A._S. teams had been assembled and prepared payer to fly out to Dubai landed in Dubai taken into custody again in Dubai because Qaeda's already warned them took our passports and that stage I think Reuters Reuters reporter and actually seen our passports and photograph them. That's only knew who we were and lucky for us while I was there was actually trying to get older the embassy in Dubai with no success they ah came walking past we shouted voices and he came running up and within ten minutes we had to buy military uniforms could rank and walk around. If we owned the Place Minister Vishnevsky he joined the team in Dubai to begin negotiations with the local United Arab Emirates government but despite his best efforts he couldn't convince them to let the G. S. G. Storm the plane Dubai instead insisted on using local troops troops ones who didn't have any specialist training only Berry Alastair you'll Rick Wagner and the sergeant major were allowed to land the rest of the G._S.. Jeanine team remained grounded when they landed in Dubai part of the political process for them to be able to even be in Dubai potentially doing operation is that they had to also work with the Dubai Defense Force <hes> their army <hes> so when you when you were a special forces group or Special Operations Group that goes and works with an indigenous army <hes> military you typically have strengths and weaknesses as with any joint operation the good streaks of this is that the lay of the land some of the customs you know any little thing that you can get from the indigenous force <hes> will only help view however they might not be as well trained as as you are so you can you can at least use them in a security level you know perimeter security and make things work and everybody feels like they're apart of this mission Davies Vega and the new team the control tower behind them sat the lunch shoot aisling in the heat. The lives of the people on board were in their hands. What exactly were they up against? What it's critical that you need to know <hes> not so much why the terrorist has taken the aircraft or hijack off? You need to know how many there all you need to know what type of weapons that got have. They got explosives okay and he's Eric. Communication communication is there a line of communication sets all willing to talk. They needed to know what was going on inside the plane but on the open tarmac there was no way to approach the plane without being spotted but then Davies says something unexpected expected happen as they were asking for supplies Captain Schumann said something on he asked for very specific cigarettes and this may be they lint by the pilots the cut me how to cigarettes Gretz indicated through two men two women on this was correct that information was everything now wegener and the team know exactly how many terrorists they're up against and they had to make a move soon the the day was nearly forty eight degrees Celsius or one hundred twenty degrees Fahrenheit the people on board were likely struggling with heat exhaustion both the passengers and the terrorists they were on the tarmac where it's one hundred twenty Tony Degrees terrorist tired passengers are tired thirsty hungry you name it hiring. Li stressed on that plane probably would have been a great time to oh attack that plane but for political reasons or for whatever reasons it it just didn't work out however they were vulnerable at that time and as a negotiator or as as the operation force you could tell that they were starting to weaken whether it was spiritually or physically or whatever you know that when it's one hundred twenty degrees in a cockpit passengers are having a hard time. The terrorists are also having a hard time. The heat gave the G._S.. Jeanine another lucky break the airport authorities trying to get the planes air conditioning system running that they put fuel into the wrong tank that meant the terrorists were forced to open the plane's doors for air leaving the interior exposed. They reveal themselves though to photographers who took pictures of them. They were all wearing our t shirts this help G._S._T.. Nine to identify defy them so that when they dawson the aircraft exactly who the terrorists and who the civilians the terrorists distinctive Chez Guevara t-shirts marked them out against other passengers this gave the team more vital insight but they were a long way off from being ready to storm the assault team didn't have any of the specialist gear they needed for the attack and neither did the army and Dubai. We made a list of what we needed. Fishing property was a seven three seven the next thing was vehicles you incase by and also ladders shotguns pistols uniform clothing that would all the same so we could identify ourselves and everything else we really wanted masking tape a shopping list. The military and Dubai didn't have the equipment but they did have a generous spending allowance for the mission Davies and Vaganov got everything they needed and more so they could concentrate on training. We then had to quote amasses with so much money Choko Camel L. it. Did we just go back into town and buy whatever you needed to bring whatever we needed. There were great. Actually they did just Paul equipment into. We've got to work it. Can people showing ladders to write my task was to train a team to actually take over the aircraft and for that I had myself alliston though he wasn't Terry trained at the time he's S._E._O.. Train so it's good enough we also had to nine vacant some agent and we also had about four or five guys from Divi. DIVI defense falls which David bullied have been training and it'll good the very good so we had a team then basically to train them explain to got booed simples possible. The team set off to work. I they sought off their shotguns so they would be easier to use in a confined space. They sprayed the equipment black for camouflage. The trickiest part was adjusting the ladders for the height of a seven thirty seven when counterterrorist teams I dotted aircraft in particular require tickled with a house lottery declined to the winning. The net craft is different yet cropped Dole's locked however went across on the ground the mantle kind of tight and throw so emergency ah doors over the wing mainly weight gain access inside I wou- I started because the difference in height I'm body shape is he a aircraft for example seven three seven two small aircraft seven four seven and bigger N._F._l.. Ladders will be longer the the angle of a ladder against forty gives you very important if the body shape underneath the door is to round the ladder is GonNa slip awake and if you put against the door open the door and the only so things we actually had to deal with we built a whole host of different types of entry type devices WanNa remember quite clearly was a platform which would hold former night and it was the Pistons drove drove into the so you stand outside the door. It was so unsafe it'd be just not true. The Pistons just wasn't hold away four men and no balancing waving around and it four people guidelines on holding in position you'd be better off with just a straightforward trolley that they normally use it network eventually ladders designed which were Joe Purpose. You can actually use them on the wings single single mothers or double lettuce on the main opening doors and these padded they were black. There were anti study the old days the state of the art and they developed just for anti-hijack. I wanted to take a second to talk about one of our sponsors that I'm really excited about their called. The great courses plus and I love this streaming service service. It's founded on the idea that education should be accessible to everyone. Now I know when I went to school. I went to a giant university and there was tons of varied research and courses that you could take and thousands of majors and the thing that I wanted to do was take all of these different courses and I wanted to study all of these different things and you just don't have the time well. This service allows you to do all that without the student loans which quite frankly is fantastic plus. This gives you access assessed the great courses plus APP which means you can take it anywhere another really amazing thing about the great courses pluses that it's being taught by real college professors not just some random person that's on the Internet that made a video and decided to post. I didn't see if he could get some likes. These are people that are really passionate and knowledgeable about what they're teaching and I mean to tell you that that really changes the experience that you as the student will have so. I want you to do me a favor. I want you to go to the great great courses plus dot com slash covert and you get to take advantage of a free month of unlimited access to their entire library of courses. I immediately went to military history and started a decisive battles of of world history course but I'm telling you there's a zillion things out there. Once you start looking you'll find seventeen different courses all across the spectrum that you're GonNa WanNa take but you have to use my special U._R._l.. That's the great courses plus dot dot com slash covert. Please go ahead. Check it out. I promise you won't regret it. Although most of the tools the team had on hand were low tech Berry. He had brought along a new S._A._S.. Weapon that was cutting edge a stun grenade so stun grenades were fairly new in the nineteen seventies in fact the S._A._S.. Were perfecting use of them <hes> G._S. G nine knew that so they wanted that expertise with them on this mission it would it would explode with some with with a bit of smoke and a couple of times just in office for a distraction yeah and of course you have the ability of having secondary could refragmentation by that I mean it's the bits of rubber that exploded with very soft rubber injure anybody okay as opposed to conventional which we'd secondary fragmentation would probably kill you absolutely aircraft yeah it was like a really he powerful slash in a series best way describing disco sometimes and the flash the blue lights and everybody seems to move in sort of Jerky way to tear eyesight but if you can imagine that with high explosive in between each jack that's what it was like for about six seven seconds and that disoriented terrorist enough so you can close them. The aim of the grenade was to create a moment of confusion that would allow beginners team to board the plane with terrorists. It's holding weapons mearly inches from the passengers heads any rescue mission would need to see special forces breached the plane and take out each threat before the terrorists even had time to shoot after two days of the plane being grounded founded in Dubai. Wagner was getting worried Mahmoud had begun ranting to the control tower about Palestinian politics and now they believed he was hunting for any Israeli passengers on the plane. Mahmoud systematically goes through the passengers looking at things possible. It's an identity documents mentally separating out people like Jews or Israeli people from the other passengers. This could have ominous implications for certain passages should Mahamoud decides the makeshift team needed to move fast but it was vital that the group do more training the three groups that made up vigorous team had never fought together and they would need to be imperfect sink to get this right at the other end of the airfield. They put together a mock rescue operation a different seven thirty seven had been commandeered to replicate the plane really exciting. It was exciting times. The training was exciting. We had aircraft we had special rangers made indoor ranges killing house killing you will go inside rooms that looked like the inside of an aircraft aircraft seats then people would sit inside. We had the projection at the end continue with a seating and terrorist appeared on the screen and causes appeared on screen and <hes> so you make sure you shouldn't right pissing because he don't know what's going to happen. Once you're inside the aircraft they would use the ladder to sneak under the aircraft's windows and get through all the entrances at once armed with stun grenades they would surprise the terrorists and take control of the plane going through June doors on either side and and heading to the aisle one group sweet forward the other back they would aim to take out those in the Chez. Guevara t-shirts choke each person on the back. When I say go do this they went there and that's when you she stopped training drills for five or six times then you can do it without breen instructed so we just honed on everything then looking to do a quick? You'll get for the doak again. Make sure the hatch quicker if people aren't used to opening the hatch they fumbled the first couple of times after that you can do it quickly do slick and you cut the time down and the idea was to get myself on listerine and the two guys in a fall would actually take the aircraft after hours of training there was one final hurdle Davies still had to prove to the defense minister that the rescue plan might work in order to get the green light defense minister who's actually run the whole show in Dubai came down and we did a demonstration for him. Demonstration was redistrict elected and he gave us the green light to go that night and we will take them out that night very simple approach from the rear of the aircraft because there's a blind spot on the seventy we seven get underneath the aircraft against the wing myself when I was one side and only vague on his major on your side and on the go to open the doors gain access success with the go ahead the assault team made their final preparations soon the mission would be done and the hostages rescued but there was one thing they were not quite prepared for Berry returned to the tower where the runways were all visible. Something was different. The seven thirty seven they used to practice on were sitting on the tarmac but the len shoot was nowhere to be seen. We saw the plane taking I mean we were told the plane and just left <hes>. We actually thought that <hes> for awesome I was over did disappointment <hes> said Alison. I thought we were going to return to U._K.. The Gems Isis Day. We got that we were discussing what we're GONNA do next. <hes> was netscape. <hes> I believe made the decision we would follow them and <hes> we actually flew to Saudi Arabia under came down and talk to US and said Gentlemen Change Decision again we're going to be that's next time on covert to hear the full story of the previous pl P._f.. plane-hijacking check out our covert episodes Entebbe hostage rescue parts one and two covert is an audio boom in world media rights co production hosted by me Jaime Renell it is produced by audio booms Ben Hammersley rockall Jacobs and Karen Beth and by Pascal Hughes for World Media Rights. We had additional production help from world media rights by Gerald's Bingguo David mcnabb's the series creative director and the executive producers for audio boom.

Dubai Jess Jeanine Mahmoud Sergeant Berry Davies Captain Schumann Germany assault Stew Smith Red Army Faction Chris McNab livestream Barry Davies Northern Ireland Duke Canon Dot Com Frankfurt Chez Guevara Davies Vega Ms. Let
Massachusetts CCC proposed changes, delivery only and caregivers

The Young Jurks

1:39:03 hr | 9 months ago

Massachusetts CCC proposed changes, delivery only and caregivers

"Hi It's Mike. Crawford welcome to the jerks podcast. Wanted to tell you why we chose anchor. For Our podcast hosting, it's the easiest way to make it podcast. Let me explain it's completely free this creation tools that allow you to record in editor podcast right from your phone or computer. So easy I can even do it. Anchor will distribute podcast for you. So it can be heard on spotify apple podcast and many more. And if you're paying for hosting services right now for your podcast, why this is completely free anchor is completely free and you can make money from your podcast with no minimum listenership. It's everything you need to make a podcast in one place anchor dot. FM. Jerks sponsored by UFC w fourteen, forty, five, a labor union representing cannabis employees in Massachusetts if you're a cannabis employees worried about your health and safety. And are not being heard at work UFC W. local fourteen, forty, five dot org or call them at one, eight, hundred, four, three, nine, one, four, four, five. Morning Commissioners on a daily today I carry a relatable sentiment with everyone's who in being in will my internet make it to the end of this hearing? I. WanNa thank the Commission and its staff for committing to the mission and quickly pivoting to virtual participation during the state of emergency. The Massachusetts Patient Advocacy Alliance strongly advises the Commission to maintain a steady course in developing a more equitable medical program if we want to fully integrate our medical program with the medical system, seek insurance coverage for medical products and services with have the support of healthcare providers, personal care attendant agencies, and also be in line with their process. In January Twenty fifteen, the MPAA math mathematically theorized caregiver ratio of one caregiver. Ten patients would be sufficient to provide safe access for the number of registered patients during that time period. At that time, the Patrick Administration, Patrick Administration, and had been sitting idle for over two years would zero dispensaries. We filed a bill in response service. The one and caregiver patient ratio is no longer necessary. It is obsolete today in Twenty Tony. Every adult twenty one plus can grow plants without a caregiver registration. The exception is when a patient cannot accumulate there sixty days supply from the allowed six plants. NPA would much rather see caregivers registered on a case by case basis similar to the process. My personal caregiver went through to register for his second patient. An arbitrary number of patients per caregiver will likely opened the door to a grey market is indistinguishable from the legally. Regulated market you and the staff have worked so hard on developing prior to question for elicit operators were boldly participating in interviews with Mel well, known media outlets while making claims they were registered with the DP h legal compliant, and qualified to collect patient's private data with no way for law enforcement to verify any of this insidious patients got sick from contaminated medicine stolen from assaulted. This regulation is also extremely inadvisable without a task force controlled by the state without a task force policy. In place, we are leaving our local citizens to the enforced by the federal government. The commission should instead pursue the removal of vertical integration and allow MTC endorsement policy proposal by Commissioner does go forward. This process will allow for qualified small business participants to apply for fifteen hundred square foot men nickel retail license stock with their favorite products to dispense registered patients. Lastly, the Massachusetts State House passed a bill allowing telehealth permanently. This is helpful to communities who socio economic backgrounds have traditionally prevented patients from spending time travelling long distances or scheduling childcare to attend doctors visits removing the ability for new patients to seek medical registration be virtual participation will prevent the participation of patients they're ambulatory or cannot afford a premium fee for an in-home patient visit. Speed. Okay. Sorry. Thank you very much Nicole. Take. We have a big show. We're talking about what happened yesterday they were regulations proposed. Things that are going on are we start off with click clip from Nicole snow the mass patients advocacy alliance. She. was talking a bunch of the ASA my opinion about taskforce talking about how we don't need caregivers anymore she has a caregiver. But she is want anyone else ever caregiver. That's weird. We have some great guests here. We're here right now on Zun we have number one dance Scotland hosted. The Im Cannabis Sativa podcasts what's Up Man Let me on. Okay. All right can you hear me? Yes, very well. Yeah. Glad to be on. Thanks for having me. I went right to you because you do a podcast like you have a taped, you don't have to deal with a the broadcasting bullshit issues. That must be so much easier. Right? I mean. It definitely is I mean at first like I wanNA see the first few months of doing the PODCAST I. I, sort of scripted everything but I sort of go off the cuff I in at most have bullet points but then as you do it more and more you get a workflow. So it's pretty simple. Yeah. And how long have you been doing this show now? today's actually the second year. So yeah, two years. Very cool. We also have Dr. Marian McNab, she's with the candidates center excellence. Everybody Hey Mike. Thanks for having me on today. Thank you see a meltdown a little bit with the villagers. Join Great. You can always expect some technical issues always anything's virtual. I thought this was easy now like this isn't hard I can do this. Then it always throws like that. That is just ridiculous I wanNA smash the system we use. Why did you change on me? In. we have Janelle. Man I wanNA. Make sure I get your last Saturday. Say Your last. Day, Journal. going. Going yet. going. What's up? What's hotel me about yourself because I know that you're you've been on the show with grant recently interviewed you and your husband and you have a business tell tell us about yourself. my background is in accounting finance than doing it for over twenty years now. Always we both always been entrepreneurial and we wear specifically leading honestly to do delivery in. Legal Cannabis when it was recreational Once delivery rules came out. We realize that we were definitely behind the eight ball because you really need retail the instead of delivery rules. Right now the company that we're starting is called the Emerald Turtle? It's going to be out of Wareham. We were waiting like I said to figure out what we were going to be doing because we really want to do delivery, but it wasn't anything. Now we think be vertically integrated in have delivering. So. But we're still we're still seeing our fingers crossed that we actually get wholesale. And Obviously Grant Smith's here. We already introduced him. He was helping me fixed system. Ask Good evening, Mike always a pleasure to be here really excited to to get into the caregiver issue and why I'm so excited to oppose what some of the people involved with that patient group trying to say at the public hearing yesterday and why I'm why I felt their arguments were bad faith attempts to make apologies for what was in. Essence an argument that boiled down to this caregiver proposal proposal would hurt dispensary prophets and I look forward to explaining why allowing each caregiver have ten patients at once in their caregiver grows rather than the one patient under the current limits is a far better system for medical cannabis patients, caregivers, and all those who favor low access to low-cost medicine the like so. And so let's talk about that everybody we start off Nicole snow. Michael Tulip also spoke Jeremiah. Mass. Patients advocacy. Aligns. Medical Cannabis. Pass. In two, thousand, twelve we went to testify the several times right in the beginning of the regulations. And we were patients Michael Malta myself. Other other folks the shadow it's definitely there. And we wanted caregivers. That's what we are asking for an immediate. Bph. We watched to as. We went up there and testify, Gamal? Senate Bassey said there were suit after suit after suit after sue All these folks in their dispensary suit that were patients that we're talking about health and safety. Things that I'm talking about now the health and safety from protecting us from those same suits. They were using health and safety to stop caregivers. At they were doing back then and we. Since then says, two, thousand, twelve, two, thousand, thirteen. We wanted ten to one caregivers in for awhile MPAA was all about it and they had bill and they got a dozen co-sponsors. In today, they're not for it even though the president of the organization has a caregiver. So she she says it's Was a great for her in her friend. Michael. Jeremiah their caregiver apparently. But no one else can get a caregiver I mean that but that's okay like she doesn't want to expand it. I mean that to be just fraudulent. Issues I wanna hear from the guests who wants to go I. Can I I normally wouldn't jump in but this is an issue that close to my heart not only because. It's something that as you said, Mike, is a fight that goes back to twenty twelve. But also because I myself spent a decent amount of time trying to get this caregiver proposal in front of. Commissioners. I, met with all the different commissioners about this I. explain my thoughts I talked to them through the issues, and so it's a proposal I know inside now and part of the reason why I'm so frustrated is not because these. People disagreed with it I. Think it's possible to have good faith disagreements about regulatory proposals but because I felt they were disingenuous with their arguments and so just for some context on, there are two different ways for medical cannabis patients to obtain medication. Right now, one is to go to a retail medical cannabis dispensary, which although they all started as nonprofit operations in two thousand twelve are now almost ninety nine percent four profit operations due to a lot. Change that occurred in two thousand seventeen after the adult US law passed. So all of these dispensaries, the brick and mortar dispensaries charge patients between three hundred to four hundred dollars an ounce in most cases for flower a hundred dollars a gram per fico in some places, and it's just simply unobtainable, and then to add insult to injury there, hardship programs offer between five percent and a ten percent discount and someone on on social security disability three hundred. To four, hundred a month even with a thirty dollar discount is still fifty percent of my monthly social security disability stipend. So patients like myself rely on caregivers right now however, and what those caregivers can do they can grow medication for patients like myself, and then they can provide it to us at cost only just the cost of growing the medication and transporting it to us as patients, and that's especially important for homebound and disabled patients like myself. Well. It's almost impossible and Mike. This is actually how I met you. It's almost impossible to find a caregiver right now because they are all limited to only working with one patient at a time and those who work with more than one patient at a time end up targeted by the are MD's and their lackeys get they try to get their. Operations shutdown because they are correct in some way that those operations are operating illegally. So what patients like myself have been trying to say as well if you allowed more caregivers to if you allow caregivers to register more patients at once in this case, ten patients per one at once with five hundred square feet of canopy for those caregiver gross then those. Caregivers could put their name on record put their grow location on record allow the commission to inspect those grows, and then also provide more patients with low cost access. But what did the people who objected say they really tip their hand Mike and I wanna I wanna read this quote that tipped the hand of the people who objected they said this was McColl. Snow speaking in January of two, thousand, fifteen the MPA. mathematically theorized a patient to caregiver ratio. One caregiver to ten patients would be sufficient to provide safe access for the number of registered patients at that time period at that time, this is the key. The Patrick Administration had been sitting idle for over two years with the spencers then she goes on to say. The one to ten caregiver to patient ratio is no longer necessary. It's obsolete and that's hips the hand which what she's basically saying there is that when we're there were no dispensaries. Sure. These caregivers were fine. But now these nonprofit caregivers, the dispensaries, we don't want them. Let me say it another way to it was fine when there were no dispensaries to pay them. Once they're dispensaries their pay. MPAA. Their donation fee. Than their lobbies, the dispensaries I mean they you know it's funny too because she she said they're opposite the reason for it is obsolete, but she has a caregiver. You grant you have a carrier, but you know who doesn't have a caregiver right here in if I can't get a caregiver if I can't find a cat caregiver. and. I host a show. I've been involved in the Movement for twenty years. Yes what the average person can't find a caregiver like so that such like. Like let them eat cake. That's what that reminds me of like like it's she has a caregiver. But she doesn't want anyone else to have one in most people. The reality is we want caregivers I'm desperately wanting to have illegal caregiver because I want better prices, I want better products, and there is other options that go beyond what grant talked about. You know you have the legal mass dispensaries that are ripping off you have what grant has, which is care, which isn't an option for me. So both of those for me for the most part are not attainable today right now because I is a working class person in Massachusetts. A disability, but I cannot afford to justify spending that amount of money at its Massachusetts Spencer I. Feel Like I am being rock she'd mentioned robbery anytime I walk into one of those Massachusetts dispensaries I, feel like I'm being rob. So the other options are to break the law and that's what a lot of us have to do as a wet most of us most of US patients I am the majority here. This it makes me WANNA cry. We have to break the law in with that includes the driving up to me. In buying it legally up there because we illegally by as we ever card in a main dispensary but includes legally driving back that the border so that that's illegal or I can go to the street. It by from the numerous grow is out there who haven't been allowed to be legal. You know. So if we allow caregivers we we can regulate those growers. A lot of those grows at seven patients right now they are in my opinion, a lot of them almost like caregivers but legally they are not and they should be we need to make a legal. I know grants raised in his hand. He's got a follow up but I wanna hear from anyone else that has a an opinion on this on the panel I let them in because we're monopolizing right now. All right So I've I've actually been to like multiple sort of medical slash recreational states like my like for caregivers emerged. Three years ago when I visited Michigan and Michigan honors out of state cards I went to their canvas top there and there were people of all different stripes all different colors that were there were caregivers you know and you had like A. Huge variety of different products different strains like I. Remember those one deal I got world's like four Four for twenty dollars in the edibles were at least seventy milligrams like I have seen how a confederation of small growers can provide a very, very competitive prices in very, very good product and and when I came back to Massachusetts, it was it was it was a culture shock and I've been wanting to sort of fight ever since then the make things better more tangible and I mean, I can't afford the dispensaries here in Massachusetts the. Qualify for the ten percent discount but ten percent off off what three hundred, three, fifty, that's that's just too. That's that doesn't really make a debt and also I. I I also find that I have to go I have a main caregiver. Thankfully, I was able to find out about her and she's able to to get it to me or I'm or she sometimes comes to Massachusetts or whatever, and she has patients in mass too. So I have to go to the caregivers to be able to afford my medicine or you CBD flower and It's just it's just ridiculous there a program shouldn't be this bad and. Again. You know when you mentioned now she's a main caregiver helping you Massachusetts again people are asking me WHO's talking GonNa make sure they know. That is dance Scotland. He's the host of the I M Cannabis Sativa podcast. To that is He's a patient in Massachusetts and he's getting help from a main caregiver semi that says it all. We're. Getting. I feel like I get more help is medical patient from the main program. Than I do for the Massachusetts program that I fought for and I have his name on the on the wall behind me over here the Kampot Michael Martha we fought for that Nicole snow draped herself in the King of Pot Michael Malta she was a friend of his he would be disgusted by what she said did this week. I normally wouldn't say that you know because I don't think it's my place to speak, but you could play the videos. You know he cared about caregivers seat you can go back to his words. He he's he said a lot of what you said. Dance Scotland. What about the other two guests? Do they have any comments on his caregiver? MPAA issue. Yes I. You know I think what? You know I think it's it's one. It's really important. You have caregivers I think a lot of the cultivators that are out there in the caregiver out there actually probably have more tailored medicine at more varieties just like Dan was saying the ability to actually give a product design and row products bats that's really helpful for medical patients and affordable I. Think there can be balanced between having dispensaries open and characters on especially for hardship medical patients in has practical really from the research studies that I've done. Got Severe Medical conditions you do consume more you need larger amounts of cannabis. You need wider varieties to treat different conditions and I wouldn't I mean, why would you limit at somebody from being able to access that medicine? So I I also have had some instances where MPA had I was working on a bill with Stedman delay. In for veterans in our access and MPA also testified against that bill. So it makes me question why what is your patient advocacy focused right now you know are really looking at patients. Do you WANNA limit caregivers would be know that this is a good model and it works You know what are the motives behind this? So I testified yesterday to again along the lines of increased the caregiver limits. Patients and to have honored square foot grow. It makes sense and and. What kind of patients grew continually now not not just once but as a campaign twice now has bet against patient access I with the Veterans Bill that Stephen Mandela wanted, which was a no brainer and they did it they did cause harm it did deliberate and stop it, and we have to fight for another year to get that ass still has. So she'll veterans are being harmed right now by our mass patient advocacy lines. I saw someone on their on our. Facebook page are you know upon news of the said Oh now I'M GONNA cancel my donations. You said that six months ago. Like when you post that night, notice it like that's almost discussing at this point they are still saying that you should cancel your donation six months ago. Like. Anyone that he's supporting the MPA at this point if you're giving them money. Like, you have to question yourself like 'cause you're part of the problem, nobody should be giving the money at this point, they screw the screwed veterans. Now, screw the patients with this caregiver bs that they just. And they wanted to again we've proven over and over again they wanna work with the cops. They want the cops to come in they want the cops to bust people and then they say will worried about fats. But. They're asking for taskforce. They've worked with police before they've Dave granted out dry sticks to globe. They've dry stitch to who we maps legally enforcing them to take down caregivers. They are anti access for patients improved over and over again June, how do you want to say anything about this? Dr McNab you. WanNa follow up any. I know that we were personally adding. A few things that we heard in the public. And the public hearing the other day. My question though is, can you even cover your costs with one patient? And Giver. Thinking through June seem that that wouldn't even cover your cause and if that was what they were trying to do, that would be a solid argument as you. You want to at least cover the cost of what they're doing being that they're not getting paid as far as I understand. So they still have to have some type of other job and do this on the side. It's not. It's not. It's not a an easy thing to grow good quality cannabis. It takes time. So to me, it's bad enough that you're not getting compensated but can you at least get them to cover their costs and that would be the first thing I would think of is how you do that with one patient As a possible tennis, even stretching it. You know I think people are doing this for love. But ten is reasonable like that's a reasonable. We can. We can compromise on ten and I think that keeps everyone. You know it's so funny too 'cause out. They're not going to go out of business with the amount of caregivers that will be that have ten patients, right? I think it will expand the market for everyone to I. think they're really silly. They don't understand markets at all. Actually they're like bad business people all of them and it's been proven with the madman. Model I mean they're not doing well. You know what I want you to know who's doing well, the ball caregivers in Maine I mean. They're killing it in. That's exactly what we want to see here in Massachusetts actually, and I know a lot of people who are real growers going to go to your grant in a second. Still, not happy with this proposal because it's not perfect they're like we can't make money on it. We can't this. You can't do that. Well, that's the idea. A lot of times is to get things passed, and once you get past, you know six years down the line if you have twenty, five, thousand or. Three thousand or whatever it is that they haven't made I mean we should. Let let's be serious Massachusetts as much larger than me. Main has twenty five hundred caregivers. That's a lobby. So once that lobby is there, they can then go to the state house in Astra some changes, the other candidates control commission. So that's what I WANNA see. I WanNa see you know a real group of people who WANNA be legal get to go legal and it's smaller players they can get in they can experiment they can try stopped caregiver and then watch a licensed business. That's the next step up you know a micro grow or something like that gives people opportunity with smaller capital do themselves the hustlers out there makes legal gives them opportunity we should be gone. In me? Which I'm one of the main differences in moon. In the problem. Maine has. Evolved over the years in their big concern, how's that big candidates coming in and try to shut down honestly but main had very similar type of thing, and now they have the option against storefronts. So like Baid started out just simple caregivers and now some caregivers have store fronts too so. There's a lot of opportunity in Maine because he's been there for so long. It's been there for fifteen years growing just didn't start overnight but they the difference of Maine is they started with caregivers in later dispensary we're doing the opposite where we're stocked with dispensaries. Then allowing caregivers later you know so just the opposite really. Smaller better being differences that in Massachusetts part of why this proposal so unique is that the operations like you're saying general half to be not for profit and not just not for profit they have to be ah cost and that doesn't even include the caregivers time. So the people who are signing up for this, they're giving all their information they're doing this pro bono for the most vulnerable patients the most. Impoverished the most disabled patients in the entire state and they they are doing this basically out of the goodness of their heart main closer to a commercial caregiver model. But that's also why Massachusetts why it was so insidious for people to oppose this proposal because what they're basically saying is not only should these caregivers not be able to have more than one patient but if they do then we should target. Task Force. This person, the president of this patient's association said quote. is also extremely inadvisable without a task force controlled by the state, and. That, of course was proposed by the. By the Commonwealth Dispensary Association, the dispensaries last year and Anti Cannabis Representative Hannah Cane. So it just shows the mentality. These people have is not lower barriers to entry and increase patient access. It's protect our prophets by ensuring there's less competition and what's really insidious and disgusting, and this is the last thing I'm going to say about this because I get so worked up about it is that the only reason to oppose the expansion of the caregiver proposal other than it not being good enough which I respect but I respectfully disagree with the only reason to oppose it is because it will allow people to obtain medical cannabis at cost in a more E in an easier way than they can now, and that means that less people even though they can't afford the medication will be forced to go to brick and mortar dispensaries and that to me is to other black market or to make when you when you appointing seriously public policy just because a prophet. That's disgusting. Let's talk about mobile shit to that was said This is going to send people to get rob she said. We're getting robbed right out dispensaries reasonable odd number two. This is gonNA bring the Federal Government Bunch of S. This will protect people from the federal government. How many stories have I written over the last couple of years where someone has been up a state or federal charges for a similar amount of plants? In the FBI did nothing for them and I wrote about it wrote about it wrote about it. In why were they busted because the law is hazy on this and what always happens in the end is that the charges get dismissed especially if they're state. If you federal and yet huge numbers you may go to jail federal is different but the feds are not going after caregivers for thirty plants or what? What was the number twenty four plants as total twelve seedlings and well so that it's actually good that you asked my because there's two different elements of the proposal and you're. Right. So but because of the licensing, it doesn't matter what the numbers are small enough in the licensing and law is gonNA protect because the feds always say one thing if you following the state law, we're not gonNA mess with you. So, this gives most growers away to follow the state law an APP who. Gives them federal protection. So it's an actual lie when the coal saying what? She is a liar that is a lot as outright frigging lot and anyone who has been arrested or jail. You should be very upset angry that this person is lying right now. Yet no, it's the the thing that worries me at that. If the ambiguity under the current law that put patients that puts patients at risk patients right now can grow. What's needed to sustain their sixty day supply but that's resulted in patients. For example, with one hundred clones dotting been a rooted ramp being arrested it's. Too is they win the case like you have to wait two three years and if they're dumb dumb and they take a plea, then they're screwed because that's what they wait for the prosecutor in the cops will arrest you and say we don't care about the law. And they'll just keep bringing you like I. If it was me, I would get frustrated 'cause I would not want to go to court every two months. And then get sent home again with no resolution and that's what they do. They hold you hostage for like two to three years it until you finally either give up inside a plea deal and go to a lesser charge or they finally give up and that's what happens eventually is found you give up because basically with the law that was passed in two, thousand, eight, two, thousand, twelve, two, thousand, sixteen by initiative judges don't want to prosecute. They don't WanNa see these cases, the judges like even if technically they're illegal. People don't like people voted not to arrest people anymore I know this I saw the ballot initiatives judges get that. So unless you're some kind of kingpin looking at, you know hundreds and hundreds of plants on federal charges, you're not going to get convicted anymore Massachusetts for the most part I. Mean I'm sure there's instances but the people I talked to you know I cover them for a year or two in eventually that's exactly what happens. It gets dismiss the process with the the current ambiguity. To one rule and the lack of any clarity as to what sixty days apply means that even though it won't it result in convictions leads to people being targeted and. If the cops have something that's very black and white for them. Then they're gonNA follow it. That's the cops don't understand the sixty days they're like. About what do we know about an? Let's not talk about something else grant because if the ranks get into, this is what someone else you know. Dan. Show someone who was talking about today. They're worried that will change the sixty days will that is in the law, right? That's in the law. The Disney A. Sixty Day is in the law. So the rags for the caregivers are just what the caregivers are going to be licensed by met but there's some new Ontario gets caught with the sixty days. If someone is still because that's in the law to have to change ally my right on that and they know there's nuance to this and I know we have other topics so I don't want to Belabor it isn't the law sounds like days. I know I'm better there's nuance to it because this proposal would create a holiday ship grows as well. So right now patients can grow the sixty day but with no defined women so patients, for example, there was a patient three months ago who growing sixty two plants his doctor said, he could be growing sixty two plants because that's what he needed. They arrested him anyway. So the way the commission proposing to fix this is to make it so that if you are medical patient without a hardship grow, you can have twelve. Plants and twelve flowering plants and unlimited clones, which is more than an adult. Great. But the officers of legal protection from harass ripe for from the court. But you still have the sixty days I was going to get there go. If. You. Get a hardship grow. Your doctor can then say your sixty day supply equals this many plants and you're protected for up to that many plants and can't be arrested Basset I wanted to. So you're still protect. That's what I'm trying to say like the sixty day doesn't go away. Just a sixty day. Generally doesn't protect you against arrest. It protects you against getting a conviction usually. So the sixty days still there, I want. This. Is What we have to clear up grant for people. We have guest here too because we want to talk about other things I think we got through the FDA gear. Anyone else want to say anything about this Dan Scotland Yeah Yeah I. Mean what I find. So like horrible and insidious bet like again, we're being price couched in the state. You know we we have zero leverage like these. The spent because we have nowhere else to go unless you know someone the grows are can grow ourselves and and with the makeup of the Commission of the cannabis. Control Commission besides Shalini Died Commissioner title were hanging by a thread with these reforms. Were I mean I was astounded when when when this Scott proposed and I didn't and I'm GonNa like doubting Thomas from the Bible I have to see the caregivers comeback to really believe that they're going to come back but it's like the and you have the MPAA testifying and they have and they're they're an organization so these. Regulators are going to give their opinion a bit more weight, and then purposely sabotaging this is just so horrible and I wouldn't like if we if Massachusetts is more of a regular dispensary model like let's see Arizona where it's just big cannabis and it isn't caregivers I wouldn't mind that because they keep the prices low. But here in this state, the prices have been hide these dispensaries of being complacent and I'll sometimes get emails saying if I spent one hundred and fifty dollars, I got a free pre roll that's such a slap in the face. So again, I mean, we really need the caregivers have more variety and more choice. Absence of a competent, dispensary model. It seems like since Kobe Dante to Massachusetts. With more medical this country supposedly opened the prices have gone out. Yeah. I mean that's crazy about that. We should at this point having a medical program this long and that that is the number one issue for patients you know it's funny we played the Nicole Snow. She talks about Harm patients on some other really important issues I care about. But suddenly when it competes with the dispensary, she doesn't care about those stations anymore and our biggest issue isn't even tell I mean I have telemedicine twenty, four, seven. I'm a patient by issue scheduling super-busy I rent a couple of businesses I have no help I have to do everything myself customer calls I, WanNa, go help them I don't WanNa, go to a doctor's appointment saying. So I WANNA go on my schedule a targeted with the medical doctors a massive I, want telehealth I want all these things she's pushing for but by far the number one issue for medical patients is the cost of the medicine. and. They don't care. It's not what what did she say it was not important anymore it was not It's obsolete caregivers. It's obsolete. The reason for caregivers obsolete note, the reason is not obsolete because the price is still high. Like the reason, we want caregivers we want better quality better selection. These are the things that Michael though the King of Pod, your friend talked about in two, thousand, twelve and thirteen when you were hanging around with them pretended to be his best friend. We were talking about the quality of the caregivers we were talking about the price. We're talk about the selection, this service, the people, the the family relationship knowing who who's growing at where it's being grown. The amount of see words being wrote being able to know the person rowing. We don't get that at dispensaries we we find out there's bad things in them when the CCC goes after them and finds them after the fact, that's how we find out and we often find out the dispensary lied to the CCC. The CCC just gives him a fine which is the cost to doing business, and they just keep going more licenses the next month I mean this is what's going on in Massachusetts right now. So I'm frustrated and I WANNA see caregivers and I know we spent a lot of time on this but I know people watching I see a lot of listeners. This is an important subject. Not. The CCC is saying that they're looking for low cost of entry. License right. So to me, it seems like they could fix this program, alter it in a way where it would be a low cost of entry so it could solve. Two things at the same time, right? It's just a thought that why don't they attack that in a way where there is some profit in it? In you can kind of build your way out of their is a proposal to do that. You know interestingly enough maybe not in this regulatory around, but basically allow them to charge per time, but at a set rate so you can charge for twenty hours a week at fifteen dollars an hour. However, you can't charge anyone patient more than X. for your time and That's the kind of. Thing where what I try to tell caregivers is the CCC wants to help this model because it's done for the betterment of the patients. But at the same time, they don't want to drive these caregivers into financial ruin and make them operate at a net loss. They were doing this pro bono. So striking that balance with insights like yours is crucial and I just wanted to thank you for that. Now, Coke Janette I was GonNa say this is a great entree into the industry, and if you can set this up and get mean these caregivers have been cultivating forever may not have but a lot of people have you know and there needs to be a an easy way for making that legal and this provides an opportunity to be regulated to be overseen and to find a profitable model, and then if you want to expand into a dispensary great But I see that I think genetics Excellent. Excellent. And my thought re restrict the profits right. But allow it to be something. You can build your way out of and therefore becomes your low cost of entry. You can't. You can't disabled doesn't delivery in order to make it your low cost of entry but I I don't see why they don't look in a different place. Another option to to be able to. We're at other places is sometimes they can sell their overages to dispensaries. So. They grow certain amount. They don't sell it. They don't. Have enough patients sort of. Demand for it can always sell it to a dispensary that's not in there yet. But these are things that we could definitely once we have a program established, we just gotTa get this established. and. To, be honest as up to I, this is an opportunity that comes like once every seven years. Like this this isn't GonNa like this past this time and it's not good this time. I I don't know if it will come back next time because we don't even know what the candidates control commission is going to be like. Too much from now, three months from now. So like this is it has passed people need to go all in on it. We should move on some other subject this Bass Massachusetts Cannabis Control Commission had a a big here yesterday, and there were a lot of subjects being talked about. Delivery obviously being one of them out we have some delivery experts. There's also advertising is an issue I think those also initial sampling is also issues that weren't even discussed. The regulations are coming up like Ed Desouza and others waiting over a thousand days for the license I mean. When you? Is there any other business Massachusetts that you have to wait and you're still consider a small player you're going from micro with the call micro grow license and takes you over a thousand days for the moment that you start the licensing process. To the AD and you're still fully licensed you're still waiting you're still waiting for that final final approval. So you could open I mean to me that just disgusting. But I know a lot of guests have different things. They want WanNa talk about. So look why don't we start with the WHO spoken probably the least on the show, which is not grant myself WanNa go first raise your hand I. Guess. Nobody quite pick one Dansk all and go ahead. So I would say that that And I've been looking into this since January I I I mean, it's going to sound like I'm wearing a tin foil, happen I January a my pockets I looked at every single dispensary spent about two hours of my time. I went on the website I, compare the prices across all of them and without fail the are charging between fifteen to twenty dollars a gram, and it almost feels like there's a gentleman or gentle person's agreement. To to keep the prices at a certain rate or to not undercut each other besides road actors like mayflower medicinal 's and I asked the CCC. The possibly look that and I mean I dunno, it just does not make sense like to have a program. That's how the dispensaries for five years and to seize like the next to no price decreases. It's almost like it's coordinated prime alleging that no, you're legend baby possibly price-fixing in. It's a good question to ask because I've looked at the price is well. I found the same thing in what I would end up to his drive a ranch to find the best deal, which is you know drive a long way the special the moment the special would only be temporary like be while at a special deal that was here for July gone in August I mean that's just the way it works around here the price is right back where it was. I mean that that is a reality. Definitely. I think that more has to do with. I mean, you can say collusion to a certain extent but I really think is just there's not enough players in the market yet. They don't have to go down right now at the prices that they're at, they're making plenty of money they have plenty of business. Go down for what reason like there's just no reason. Once you have more players in the market and especially for retail delivery entering from one side, you have additional retailers entering from another. Your addressable market is going to continue to diminish. Then you will see prices start to move. You know is just that this market has been so Sollozzo to build that they've been able to have price installation. So. Think of the wreck side to you're you're getting a lot of tourists. The Guy I feel like you don't want a medical side. Obviously they're serving Massachusetts patients but I think a lot of the wreck stores depending on where they are. But the ones. There are certain wreck stores the they're serving people from New York and New Hampshire and Vermont Vermont that don't have any access in they're willing to drive two hours to you know because when you don't have a can act. You'll. You'll go drive anywhere pay anything to get it and I think that's you know when They only have so much product to sell. There's that much being grown here. Sell the top dollar to those tourists and not worry about folks like be who were driving to Maine for it. Maybe, you barely sell ounces you wanNA sell everything niece. or grabs now noticing I mean. They're they're gouging on the Graham now and they don't even offer like you said, announces half the time headquarters. It's like. Well, we might have a couple of quarters like, okay that's that's a big by I. got a chance to buy a quarter ounce. Wow. And I think another dynamic like to add onto what Mike was saying is. In New, York whole flower in their medical program is not legal so they can only really get it from their streak connect or they have to come to Massachusetts and Vermont and New Hampshire they have tethering in their medical marijuana programs so you can only assign one dispensary it. You can only go to that one dispense you so I'm sure like my saying you have people from all over the northeastern even the eastern seaboard coming to our dispensaries. Anyone. Else. All right. Let's talk about delivery because that's that's the big I mean this was like. All about caregivers and delivery who wants to go for on the delivery debate. I WANNA. Make sure that we mentioned to midnight mass dot sub stacked dot com to good stories on there. that. You probably going to hear US mention. We're talking about issues that came up. From those stories today bid. I-. Mass, Dot. Com are two recent stories one I wrote about Reveille Shark Lakes the me too story. And then one that grant rope just on what happened yesterday, which was the CCC went through the Regulations The review of their new proposed regulations, the draft and I took testimony yesterday ended that. One of the big subjects who's delivering. So what let's talk about delivery right now but if you wanna you, WanNa know more information for the audience midnight mass dots up stacked dot com check those stories out. Can I say something quickly before I tossed to now because I actually wanted to thank her and her husband Aaron along with Moore's Party and Chris Verve Ray, and Devon Alexander and so many others they've been working on both with 'em cab the. Massachusetts Cannabis Association for delivery along with a bunch of other groups to really ask the CCC to expand the current adult use delivery format right now that format is in journals words worse than Uber Eats, which is to say that it's basically a glorified courier where companies have to own fleet of cars and deliver product from existing brick and mortar stores to consumers and tried to subsist off the fee the delivery fee. What's so fascinating and why and thanking Jon Allen All of those who did that work at their economic analysis showed that even charging forty dollars per delivery based on the number of deliveries that could be done per day because all the product has to go back to the dispensaries in a single day by the way that even at forty dollars delivery, these companies would operate a net loss per month so now and this. Excellent Group has been forcing the CCC to grapple with the fact now without the ability to purchase product at wholesale from cultivators and manufacturers and store that product in a warehouse, the licensed type will fail and the equity that it represents through its existing priority period for ease and se seeking delivery license will be rendered. Moot. So now please can you tell us more and thank you again for letting me give you that introduction. Thinking grants. Yeah I think that for delivery. We expected that it will come out being a normal business like a regular licensed Tom. There was no reason for that. They will pull wholesale. Being able to purchase wholesale it was totally a shock to me when I heard that they expected you to be able to purchase retail at the prices that retailer at and still make a profit because people are already complaining what they're paying when they go to a recent retail establishment. So now on top of twenty percent taxes in the high cost were now going to say. Pay us a delivery fee to. On every order. Okay. It just does it. It's not gonNA. Last, there's no way that everybody's going to be able to hold onto that delivery I. so that's the first problem. Right the the the plan is made above you needed delivery and second you need the retailers to give you. A commission off of retail. That makes sense. You know the delivery fee it's going to be a fight to zero how quickly that will happen. In. Honestly can happen out of the gate else right somebody designing that they get a better deal with the retailer because that could happen and they come out with a lower delivery fee or they want to corner the market Amazon. Can. I mean that that's basically number one. What was the retail model I don't even know if you can call them. Kale. Who would want to like I said this from the very beginning I. I said this is not gonNa work. Now I've been in these businesses like you cannot deliver it all across the state forty fifty bucks and especially like you said This is not gonNA kick back like all those delivery companies that are out there like dining dash. They got kickback a huge kickback from the restaurants, the restaurants. And that that is that that whole industry is under so much scrutiny because of how it is like the door dashes all those to the restaurants this would be the opposite thought you guys would have it just would not work. We know retail only model right now if you wholesale. You can say that that will strengthen the retail model little because retails will now no, yes someone is going to be delivering. We don't control who's living because essentially they can say forget this we're not having deliveries during the next two three years to figure out the program failed and we get to do it ourselves because they will figure out the program failed, right It's not there's there's no you're not going to have these tons of successful people in that retail model in the wholesale model you now are able to force retail a little right to say, okay this is going to be happening I. Now have a war from two fronts. I need to do something. So they will I think especially, the vertically integrated ones will come out of the closet now with some percentage. That doesn't mean that everybody can do it. Every everyone's not in the same position but I think having wholesale at least gives you that advantage that there are some pressure on them. There's no pressure on them in the car retail model. On top of it, I know that the big argument was that they wanted to give a low barrier of entry license. And I understand that I get. Good intent in it but. All it's proven to do is be another roadblock because if the way that you give. You may delivery less expensive is to take away wholesale. You might as well not have delivery your takeaway wholesale and you're, and you're attaching at the same time to the hip of the retailer. Nothing about that make sense right. So to me, the lower cost of entry has to be found either somewhere else or you just have to talk about funding and stop not thinking about that people need to have funding. If you're trying to gain equity in this market, because into expensive markets again, you can't destroy the license though in order to say is a low barrier of entry yet you're not willing. To get rid of the second driver, you're not willing to get rid of cameras, right? So you're not willing to get rid of the storage time that we have to keep goals these things you're not willing to not let have a building we have we can't store cars in our driveway ray. So all these things are things that you're saying for public health and public safety, we have to increase the cost. Why don't they do an armored car to a guy with a gun I mean. Why not just bake delivery costs five thousand dollars in will be good with it I'll. Say That we could deliver one thing at a time and come back to the store every time I know some people are joining that. Just, it's not it's not viable talk about wholesale. Hopefully, we'll just. That's what I want to talk about wholesale. So if wholesale. If, they add wholesale to it. I look at that as good and bad. Because you had wholesale now you're looking at a location. Are they gonNA add a host community agreement to that? You had to have it anyway we have to have a host community together delivery we had to have a building. So now my building has to have another room in it that had secure. So you already have once is basically answered. You don't need another one. You don't need another building. Now you need another age I mean, you're FCA. Your delivery you'd you'd have to have delivery on your, but you're still going to need an EPA. They weren't saying that we could drive the cars from our houses. So we have had to have a building figures. You're already good on that. Yes it gets a little bit bigger because now you have to have somewhere, we can package if you're going to take from wholesalers where you need to package or Andrew going to have someplace where you can store securely your cannabis which you didn't have to have before but. I don't know that that's a big enough cost to say it's worth having no prophet in the business. I'm wondering if that could be set up to wear where. It's almost like a u-haul like storage space where someone. has a secure location where they rented to five or six dollars. That was a suggestion on the wasn't actually our suggestion someone also is doing delivery wanted to do Co. wanted to locate and I think that's another thing that can help to lower the cost that you have because the only concern was, how would they then separated their cannabis but if you have a secure room, you can easily put cages in that room. Friendly. Whatever would be that would be secure for that's your inventory. No one else can touch. Then you split on the rest of the cost because if you are going to be a retail deliverer, you're still going to need to cut costs like there's just not allowed of meat on that bone. Building on that I mean if there's already not profitable model and it's only exclusive for two years. So why even really trying to you know I mean that's I mean, and then you've already Donald Hda scowling and then others can come into the market. So I really do think it should be at least three four. Five, can I asked her now a question canal one of your big asks was not only the wholesale warehousing but also to expand the current two year equity Ian NFC priority period longer can you tell us how long you're asking for and why you're asking for it to be expanded? One of the reasons just like Marion was just saying we. First of all, how long has it taken to get licenses? That's not a quick process in even if they're going to speed it up or delivery. Is Not going to be that fast right, and we're going to start the clock from the day that the first one obits. So or I don't know his granted the license or opens but regardless. and. Months after that is when they're going to evaluate whether they're going to extend it or not. My guess would be yes it would be extended because they won't have reached enough people. So then you get three years, but you still have to think first of all will anyone has been able to get in. We'll enough people have been able to get in and that time secondly, no business can be if you just take the irregular businesses knock cannabis right now no businesses evaluated in two years you are gonNA. Break even in three to five. Now, going to evaluate us in two years you're not even giving the cannabis control commission's not even giving themselves enough time to really evaluate and people that are going to be evaluating anyway. How many are going to get in then you have to think. Forces in the market you WANNA. Give a little bit of time for things to come about people that me lease cars to drivers. Collate Co located locations somebody has to still open up and get co located location and then offer it to other people. That's all going to take time. How are they doing this in two years? Three years we would love to ask for five because that's probably the time it's GonNa take. We just think that. Will what what the commission was telling us is that two years they can push the legality of two years. They could probably do it for a little bit more than two years five years it sounds like they were. kind of pushing the edge. Say It really would take five years for them to really be able to see what's going on in this market in isn't actually working but. For, three years with at least one year extension because we wanted to be reasonable things we want to focus on asking where things we could get a yes. On because we need these yeses deliveries not okay right now. We also need yes. For the amount of towns are open, but we left that for the time being because it was a much bigger fight in I we to make it so that the things were asking for you have no argument. So give it to us. If you're acquiting. In, your mandates equity, there's no reason that you have taken wholesale away from us and I was not presented from any of the commissioners with a good reason other than lower cost injury and the fact that they had an issue with, would we be able to transfer stuff from wholesaler to the customer in way that they think is safe You're already have all your retail rules make us follow their. That increases the cost but that makes them comfortable and we want wholesale. So we will do what makes you comfortable giving us wholesale just like the caregiver thing we're asking for this much but we know we need more but you have to start somewhere because right now without wholesale you might as well, not good enough. The trend you got nothing it's just like what we have caregivers right now with Nicole snow has a caregiver, but I can't get one. Fair that's not fair. But. She says it's fair and that the need for caregivers is obsolete now. But. She hasn't caregiver but no one else can have a caregiver. It's time for equity. It's time for your vote to be put where your mouth is now. So we need we need this we need delivery services with wholesaling definitely. Caregivers. Dan Scholar Dance. Calling what's up? I'm. Like, I agree with everything that has been said thus far. But I'm like really like I want the delivery model to succeed I really really do I wanted to succeed so much that you know when the bigger companies come like years later or whenever the exclusivity period comes when the big multi-state company Stratacom they get ice out I want the local delivery companies to to to really be known into really thrive and like I think it's part and parcel with the other. What other people were testifying about with with regard, lifting the bans on advertising they asked me well known that there are delivered that there's a liberty in the there ee I'm people that are that that have been disproportionately affected by the war on drugs because again, like this is their seven million people in the state so it needs to be known so again, so the big key cannabis multi state folks can be iced out by the time. The two year period is not. Agreeing, with everything that has been said. Thank you Dan Scotland. He's the host of the I M Cannabis Sativa podcast. Check him out on twitter to your on your madman on twitter. Money's Mike Crawford. I'm hosting of Grant Smith here we have Dr Marion mcnabb she's with the candidates center of excellence and we have Janelle. I'm GonNa say her name again. Shows Eight for going going. GOING GOING OWENS WITH G go. Just go in. Galway. All. going. Oh. There other isn't ask going. Yeah. Pronounce. So many ways going as. It's Your close. Close. And we have we have a great show today. Obviously, we're talking about the candidates Control Commission, the regulations that just went through that are being proposed. There was a public testimony yesterday with a bunch of speakers they took one hundred names. And all three of you three out of the five bus were testified yesterday at that What are the other things that we want to talk about related to the regulations like because there's a lot of things that are proposed even even things that are proposed that people Wanna change what do you want to highlight? What are some of the other things besides the delivery of the caregiver said we talked about so far? I'll pop up in here So I talked about those yesterday, the caregiver, and that's liberty licenses, but also really kind of looking at the economic empowerment in the social equity, program in general and July brought up funding and loans, and you know where, where are not and I suggested that the commission you know there's a lot of concerns from e applicants in se Africans to you know asset really have a thoughtful meaningful. Time to sit with those applicants to hear these Burnham's lots of programs are being proposed to help it But definitely as a former social equity training Bender I feel like CCC needs to dedicate. Funds Resources to that program and also really pay attention to these applicants and fast forward a lot of those applicants And I also recommended that the original way that the Commission takes the twenty nine cities. Disproportionate impact fundamentally disagreed with personally and testified around for quite a while and spend a lot of testimony around that. So they missed out on a lot of cities that are disproportionately impacted and I think they need to really expand that You know considering the H C a model where you don't have to have a location like well is implemented in Maynard. I'm adopting some models like that I think would be important on the other pieces that I brought up where specifically close to my heart, which were the research license category to be honest I was kind of I was kind of happy to see finally some some work around the. And to see that there are permits that will be allowed. But one of the concerns that I had was a cannabis research facility while can be an academic institution or nonprofit or an themselves at to be co located with an MTC co owned, and so that kind of boxes out a few players too. So I had a little bit concerns on that And then I, also, again as a as a cannabis researcher, it's very, very difficult to find funding. For Research we've got to be creative over the last couple of years. So I think the commission in addition to sporting social equity should really look into squirting in cannabis, research, flou- other states, California Colorado have done this and that they should probably consider some of that. So those are some of my additional comments yesterday. I think that would make sense. We could be that. We have MIT with Harvard. Why don't we doing cannabis research could be like the center of it. So the whole world in get a big economy on week, we put money into all kinds of other signs in Massachusetts Governor Deval Patrick was all about the biotech in the farmer and this this and that is. Why we put money at a cannabis research. And UMASS WITH MY Program right the they put him on a lot of money into research. Why are they doing it for cannabis? It would make so much sense the hot sector to put. Under is just you know having that research cornered in the market I you know large companies just Kinda like cannabis side. Do you never? I mean. So like our local industry as long as there is you know intent for public good and you know driving medicine driving formulations and then giving back same time I think that's a key for. Me To not lock into the research market only to those that are also fairly wealthy, but from another industry But yeah, I think it makes a lot of sense of advocated for this. You know since then disappearing since it was legalized, I don't use them in Massachusetts. I am I think it would be really important and I think we deserve it. As country I think researchers have been prohibited from studying this You're only allowed to use night approved. You Know Cannabis Mississippi and clinical trials and you now. I think it's an error that needs to change now. Their candidates isn't really known to be the best of the. I remember we talked to. Some some patients that got it Ervin. My God am l. v.. They get the seeds in. Your up. Sauce. Again. It's awful right so Sicily. So she divers. She's amazing. She spoke at an event that we hosted last last year was Stephen Venturing Kyle really incredible woman says she's the first research actually approved by night at a study at an approved by federal government study Utsa in cannabis and better, and she had us night a canvas and it came by. Sticks and seeds and was just not representative at all and really she thinks and basically falsified her findings because it was not at all representative of what was available on the market apparently. Yeah. The Pre roll that crap like urban lv where patients they were like though the first legal patient's medical patients in the country in in the federal government grows. Its two locations, right? One Mississippi. But they grow this cannabis. And they would mail it to the few legal patients they allowed. The lawsuit against the federal government I believe it was. But they would get the joints in there will be role the seeds and stems, and so they were break everything out, get all the features stems out of it and then rewrote them up. Like. That's the federal government for you could just say. Set Him a bag of the role at themselves. But getting off that subject I, want to get back to one of the things you said, Dr. McNab Dr Marion mcnabb, you mentioned disproportionately harmed communities have kind of been left out on what the state defines as as a harm community I noticed that too a lot of people noticed it. What what are some of the cities and towns you know off the top of your head sit like certain cities towns that were left off that should have definitely been included. Rents Lawrence Large was included. Lawrence was not included. That is just so ridiculous that is like David. Was Lawrence? On cops. That should be the status. How many tiles your city town on cops if you're on like more than five times like Lenin Arts were you actually be Mariah mean. and. Yeah I don't think proximus. Ambrose's zero I think Brockton. Yeah. Aren't Stephanie was not Lawrence is actually the first city that I fight in Massachusetts to support adult scandalous in the sport equity and the researcher that was selected to identify those twenty nine cities used the metric that I feel was fundamentally flawed and basically the way that he calculated you know the cities and their impacts he didn't include some key indicators and there and half of you know some of the some of the samples healing at half of the city's in. Massachusetts. That was used and it's just a flawed a flawed. Model in my opinion. So I, hope that I've heard that the commission I think maybe reviewing to. Realign to make sure that as a little bit and I hope they do Recommendations. I had a colleague who got a PhD on the subjects we worked with me on this and it was really well trained is really well trained. So anyway, I think that they definitely should adopt you know reconsider expanding that less Yeah and you know also really think that One of the things that I think was contentious recently on I applaud Commissioner Title I. Love You measure you're the best. Support you wholeheartedly but the USA fines fines recently to be able to fund social equity economic apartment. That's an brainard. Mean you know already the commission commissioners receiving a lot of money You know that was what? How much six, hundred, thousand dollars. Hundred thousand. Eight hundred thousand like that's not a small chunk of change and people could really use that and if the commission can issue grants or loans or whatever because a legislative stopper you know there's Find another solution, find a partner find somebody outside the commission. Don't make you do something but like that's a lot of money that then is back into the commission to hire more staff, we'll likely stack you know I mean, hire hire people that are working on that program or create and use that money for the actual businesses. Give it suited such equity applicants, Yakim harmony gets their budget donations to I think. Fitting in escrow and the Social Equity Program budget has not gone up in three years. We just had Shaquille. Scott. An excellent interview on the young Turks that can be found in our guy and on our podcast platform spotify anchor Breaker Stitcher, and otherwise ray she talks about how that budget did not go up permits base three, hundred, thousand three years ago until now and those marked that. Money from fines and bike. You're saying the PE- donations in escrow already could change that and I want to ask one more question There's another proposal brought up at the regulatory hearing about the D- verticalisation of the medical cannabis market and I, noticed something there is nothing about equity in that proposal and dating back to twenty twelve there has never once been social equity or Economic Empowerment Program For Medical License Ownership, do you all I wanted to ask the panelists and even you might do I think it's time that the CCC only issue new medical licenses for a period of three to five years the SEC's ease only. Yes. It was too expensive. That's what I think you have like didn't you have season five, hundred, thousand dollars in your bank account. Sitting in the back and it came out because you're worried that the federal government sees it or the or beggar timing closed it because they were afraid. Then, you'd get trouble if you report it. No intention of this very link at it's answer the question though yes do support. By support their. Medical. Licenses. diverticulitis Oh if that capital requirements gone. Support a three to five year period when new medical licenses would only go to ease. Essy's definitely as long as they're after understand that you have to have some kind of funding component otherwise that that time here you'll get nothing ended anyway, right. So then that's that's where the problem is. You'RE GONNA need funded, but I would definitely agree with that just like I would agree with the towns having to go back in and say we issued only to two licenses but they were all to non e. participants and we need to go back in one on one to one open two more licenses to be fair. Yeah I'm not even have to do one to one. They could be bold by Cambridge and go unlimited only is no one else get sued by medical dispensary win in court and then rub it in the medical dispensaries face. But I'm saying this house over any close themselves grant. So you already given out there to licenses well. You know you'll like to know. Medical. If it does get the verticalised with an equity priority period cannot be banned. Yes I now. I also support I definitely support I'm having a you know social equity, our economic apartment program within the medical program I talked about that yesterday I think one of the biggest challenges is at the town level. I mean these are state programs right and just what you were saying at the local level I, think a lot of municipalities don't even know what the Social Equity Program is or than even exist in unless there's a loud voice there and sang that this is the program you need to pay attention to it I I. Don't think they are aware So you now having a either requirement at at the municipal level or. Implementing innovative you know get NHCD without location approach or other ways But yeah, I mean I think you know we've seen time and time again colleagues Social Equity Program you know they are gone up to at a city council and They're they're beat out I somebody with more money you know. And Nate and that that. City Council or is not held accountable because. It's a state. So I. think that's a really big challenge for that program. And Dan Scotland. Yeah Yeah. I totally I totally agree that that e should have they should be able to make inroads medically so they can sell. I miss vendors like like a my I miss vendors like northerner by I know there are deep cod or whatever. Yeah, I miss. I. Miss Having I. Miss Seeing a variety of different people at. That are both the vendors with the sellers distributors Again I had people different backgrounds when I utilize services like that, and I would like to see the state invest in in cities and towns disproportionally affected by the war on drugs and to have them be able to have the drug war victims be able to have leeway to be able to do it. So I totally agree awesome. I want to ask him that everyone another question here. Midnight Mass we put a couple of stories out grant story on a review of what happened went down at the campus control. Commission. Public. Comment period yesterday the story before that was a be two story about the Massachusetts Cannabis Industry. I'm wondering if you all right and what do you think about it and what do you think about the comment that I got from a Keith Cooper who is a CEO? Out Revolutionary Clinics who seem to call it misinformation which to me is strange 'cause I was quoting was his former CFO. Court document. A a couple of employees I mean, that was I was just quoting people and he's telling these calling misinformation. What did you think about the story if you saw it in? which your feedback on what percent about it apparently. Buddy wants to go. So I saw the story. You know and have known You know a few people that a portrait clinics and that you know have had. Some. Challenges. You know working there to stay I guess to be polite challenges You know I think it's You know I've heard a lot of stories and I remember that time at you know Radna. Time that happened I don't think any kind of behavior sexual harassment or abuse against women as acceptable period. and a lot of people have come out and a lot of you know you've reported on it and I just don't think it's possible. I don't think that's acceptable workplace behavior and response to it. I think is you know not not. What I thought was interesting to key Cooper's. Email that he sent to apparently all of his employees CFO didn't respond to US did respond to the press. Had didn't really seem to respond to the victim when it happened if their the alleged victim, let's put it that way because I just WanNa make it clear the story I. I really didn't pick sides. I just printed the complaint from the women. That she filed. Sheep violent official complaint with Massachusetts, Commission Against Discrimination I quoted or from that complaint. I quoted the CFO. who also who sent me messages? So I I caught a both sides I. Think I was very fair that I'm not GonNa make a determination on this. However, I have heard so many stories about problematic issues for employees at revolution clinics over and over and over and over I will say that. And their other complaints. I'll say complaint. Let's be clear. That we're going to be reporting on related to revolutionary. Clicks I will say that but he called misinformation it seemed like in that in that email and Just like what was misinformed yet you have an opportunity Keith Cooper we challenge you to come on the show answer questions you won't. I. We also quoted you in that story. And get Cooper said, he said something net to me doesn't seem very truthful when we actually asked him about this it's quoted I put it in the story. I'm just I'm Kinda like flag acidy put out the Shuji mail to all of his employees. But he also, he didn't mention the email they sent all his place the gentleman once he just basically made it sound like it was just some average employee. He wasn't average employee. He was your CFO. I thought that was strange. Anyone else want to comment on what is a CCC We're GONNA take this. It was on the agenda Yes he's. That's what we don't know. I have a feeling the CCC for my experience. I don't think they're going to act on a complaint like that. Maybe they will maybe they won't maybe low investigated, but they're not going act because there was a may they're going to have to look into it to an investigation I would think however I feel like they're more likely to act is. Like the Domestic Committee Commission Against Discrimination heard the complaint nothing happened the attorney with Jerusalem. He withdrew it because you're GONNA file a civil complaint now if the civil complaint ends up. Finding that revolutionary clinics was at fault. The Canvas Control Commission will definitely act at that point however. We find it interesting. You know all of a sudden the revolutionary clinics is up on the agenda for Thursday's CCC meeting some kind of action disciplinary action is GonNa. Be Taken about the Gets, revolution, clinics. We wrote the story about I have no idea if that's related, I have a feeling, it's not related, but it's very interesting and I don't think any of US know I haven't heard anyone given us any info on why that is even on the agenda. So it's it's news to US news. It's very interesting a very interested to see what happens up I. New Violation but likely unrelated I would. I would probably. About testing. Yeah and and based on the history with the last three violations which were healthy farms, which is now mission the botanist and garden remedies it tends to be about. Things where like there are concealed contaminant pass or Given misleading or ownership issues. Now, that's another one that could be could be an ownership issue because. There's a lot I left out of that story. You and more that we're looking at. So it could be an ownership issue that would be the most interesting to me. You know I'll kind of honestly I gotta be left letdown just another pesticide issue they lied about it. That will be let down because all like, wow, it just shows their dirty again but important. Hunting imprisonment actions is that you don't just get like unlimited enforcement actions Israeli give you an enforcement action and you're on probation and you do something again you're you're probably going to get a suspension it hasn't happened yet, but it lays the foundation so but the other thing is I think people are sending a common theme here. which is that it seems that these corporate guys whether it's the delivery policy, the caregiver policy, the research study policy. Oh, always try to find ways to undermine policies that kind of cut them out and try to insert themselves and this revolutionary clinics company Mike just because you asked about the story about this story spoke for itself. The M. Complaint the victim statements, the statements you've got. From the individual who was accused in the complaint but at the same time, this is the same company revolutionary clinics that's sued Cambridge because Cambridge created an e e only priority period for issuing adult use HCFA's that didn't include medical dispensary they actually sued the city and this is also the same company that was part of the D. A. When the Komo up Dispensary Association proposed that. Horrific Task Force Bill. So you see a pattern here every single time there's something that might threaten the prophets of these guys. They're right there exerting their influence on the local level, the state level, the regulatory rebel, and it takes a unified grassroots community to come together to come out and support to email the candidates control commission that Commission C. C., mass. Dot, com and say you support. Allowing wholesale and warehousing delivery and say you support an expanded delivery priority period for equity applicants and say you support ten caregivers per patient and say you support research licenses being decoupled because if you don't reach out and tell them that you can be damn sure those corporate guys will be in their inbox with their allied advocacy groups doing the same. That's right and you you have limited opportunity. Like this is an important time like this cannabis control commission wasn't always good. We don't know how long it's going to be collect. Open to these proposals like these are new things that they're doing. It took us a while to get them up to speed at a lot of people did a lot of work to get them like Grand, Journal and Dr McNab. Michael Malta was talking about in two thousand twelve. You can do it from like getting care givers? Don will make me cry honestly just for him. This. Is like his my best friend's unfinished legacy like he wanted to happen. So. This is like a once enough. And a decade opportunity, we need to take advantage of it. So please do contact them and you know another thing you can do to is support US midnight mass, Dot sub, stack, dot com. If you want to subscribe because, let me tell you all of their focus right now is on US believing. Between Neta treatment accessing and clinics. We've been investing to protect ourselves. Haven't we grant little bit. Regret. Doubt, he doesn't WanNa comment. But I'm wondering, should I read the email? Should I read does anyone me read the email or at least like the first paragraph? Cooper about us you WANNA hear. Have it right in front of me Xeni I what what about? The rest of the gas you WanNa hear. Yes. They shaken had it's getting late. Say like anyone like has to go the bathroom right now going Dinner Ouagadougou just let me know 'cause it's OK can up off. You don't have to listen to me read this email. All right. Think. Dear team. As some of you know a person from the young jerks posted a piece about US related to allegations of harassment discrimination in our workplace. Excited incident that was alleged to have occurred in April of two thousand eighteen as well as some comments from former employees who separated from the company earlier two thousand nineteen. So he calls his CFO former employees. I mean, that's pretty shady. Just. That's the first paragraph. And then He. The second paragraph because this goes on for four or five paragraphs probably six seven. He writes as difficult as it is to see misinformation topics of such importance. We purposely do not respond to these sorts of ballot. Of Social Media as it just generates want interest, it could negatively ramifications for the company well. You Fomc vote did respond. You also responded Cabrera when we put the camera in front of your face and you said the allegations actually, I'm not gonNA call you I WANNA make sure I call you directly. But you said something to the effect that you can't trust everything you read I read. Between the lines seems like you deny the allegations to. The gas lighting yeah. About how confused is maybe you know this is an internal statement and obviously you know Mr Cooper I know your social media team is GonNa, clip this and play it for you. You might even be listening right now I don't understand why you do this. It pointless to send out internal emails because your employees are just going to send them to us. Yeah. They're going to say everything you know. Revolution Clicks no chew 'em net New England treatment access I know more about you folks that you realize. If you've done it, I, know about it. Think about that. Think about that Mr Cooper? I what I wanted to say about that was that. Not, even to Mr Cooper directly but to all these companies. It scares me that instead of addressing the allegation, you address the reporting about the allegation because it makes it seem like you don't care about that victim, and if you don't care about the victim and the fact that they were brave enough to file that complaint and actually come forward it makes me wonder if maybe the victims word should carry more weight in my eyes. The if you're not honest about the fact that ownership and management or accused not just an employee. Like that's dishonest it would you continue to attack us whether it's to a podcast that you say disparaging things or you send email to your your employees to disparage us. Those achieved shots and those are being recorded. And we we get everything. So I mean, I'm wondering. You think we should post this whole thing later tonight, the whole letter I think we might. I think it warrants a piece about it. If you asked me. Yeah think we'll. We'll sit to legal review team. Are whether young. Jerks we've got some great guests theon Dr Marian mcnabb from the campus center. Excellent Dan. Scotland hosted the IM Cannabis Sativa podcasts. COUGHING WE HAVE JANELLE Wins going. Goings. Calcium here accompanying. The Emerald Journal, the Emerald Turtle I love that like it. And we have, of course, grits with from everything. We bid I may ask any jerks myself by Crawford are Veasley. They figured anyone no dance. Scotland. The host of the I am cannabis. Sativa podcast is also here might say his name twice at once when I do. I'm at school. Yeah. It's just I I am. I can be found anywhere. You find podcasts I'm also trying to carry on what Mike does Trying to make cannabis affordable accessible for regular folks and I've I've I've been emailing the CCC, they probably know by name by this point, but we gotta just keep doing that. But yeah, I found anywhere you find podcasts. spotify stitcher everywhere items. So I listen to you. Again I am podcast. So again I wanNA thank our guest anything else y'all WANNA leave us with. Consider the closing statement. Anything you want to talk about. Dr, McNab work on a lot of things with candidates center. Excellent you work with the University of Dartmouth's umass Dartmouth Zach. Yup, you must start. yeah we do I. Guess I'll say if anybody's interested or consumes cannabis. You might start at the end. The Kennedy Center backs on Cyber Kobe. Teen Chemistry Research, study going on right now. So we're trying to collect anonymous information to understand how Kobe nineteen is impacted cannabis use and be able to develop and share education. You know information about that, and then we also launched a at Troia Asia. And Stand Milton client resources. A of. Sustainability and CAPE WITH representative and not every its cannabis. As social responsibility and environmental responsibility studies relaunched that on Monday. So cannabis cultivator at five minutes anonymous. help us out will be using that information again to as we have been doing with C. Three are in the past trying to raise awareness and education and change policies so Awesome. Engine and Jon Allen Show you WANNA pursue a little plug for. Is this the right way now? Yes. Okay. He'll cover. Deliver license go ahead you come the ADS Mascot Dot Org. Trying to. Basically trying to start a Trade Organization for delivery. So. Check. US out sign up. Members free. What's what's the website I've been on their petition to right right and that can be found a mask mass can cad dot org. As with. Mash Cad. Orgy. Yes. Perfect. Mass CAD CAD so mass. A DOT Org. Faded, sign the petition. Three hundred now. Good support for. People have signed that. You definitely go on there right now and sign up for her. For the Organization for delivery. And oriented where's the link again? Mass Cad. Yes. Like M., A. S. S.. Cad Cad? The. The level edgy up mass mass cat she. Mass VIP. Dot Org. Okay Get Co.. Founded. Cool. We got one more signature for you. Perfect. Thank you. And you haven't kill you. If you are interested we covered so many important topics today about the CCC's regulatory revision. If you are interested in supporting ten patients per caregiver grow and five hundred square feet of canopy if you're interested in supporting journal and others with their expanded delivery to include wholesale and warehousing, you're interested in supporting Dr Mc now, proposals about research licenses being decoupled from MTC ownership you have until August fourteenth at five pm to Email Commission CCC Mass Dot Com and tell. Them why you support those proposals if you don't do that the corporate guys will send their people into the e mail and we will not get these proposals passed. 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There are in a lot of areas and a lot of you know you only have Canada and twelve US states in South Africa and I think the Australian Capital Territory. So we're in a very small company. We can really afford a learn from each other and make sort of global grassroots. And again I can be. Found anywhere. You find podcasts such as I tunes, stitcher through Google play cast box spotify. And as well as iheartradio. Thank you. Awesome thank you Dan Scott I wanNA thank again. Janelle goings for being on the show Dan Scotland hosted the IM Cannabis Sativa podcast Dr Mary mcnabb and Grant Smith for being here as well. Bail meow on the The screw up that started the show. But we go we had a great show pens, bailed us out. made it. Sound good. I get I want to thank all of our listeners. We had quite a few of them tonight. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you for the comments and we'll talk to you real soon, Mike Crawford checking out. 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E136: Nick Bitel

Unofficial Partner Podcast

43:31 min | 2 months ago

E136: Nick Bitel

"Hello and welcome to another episode of unofficial partner. The sports business podcast. I'm richard gearless today. We're talking to nick patel. One of the most influential people in pretty spores chair of sport england or member of uk sport and chief executive of the london marathon. The timing of this podcast coincide with the launch of sport england's new ten year strategy cool uniting the movement and the conversation covers a bit of ground from the image and reality of sports governing bodies their relationship with innovation and change and the lessons learned from the covid pandemic which is hit grassroots sport and activity so very hard so given all that. It's appropriate that this podcast is sponsored by our mates at joy mo joy mo is a live streaming platform made for grassroots sport allowing clubs to engage with fans from around the world and generate income with pay per view ticket sales you can start live streaming and an easy and cost effective way using joy mo at all the equipment you need is a smartphone or tablet and a tripod. And you're ready to go sign up today by visiting joy mo dot tv and as ever if you like the podcast you'd really like the weekly unofficial partner newsletter which covers sports business themes we talk about in more debt you can sign up to that via unofficial dot com where you can also delve into the back catalogue of conversations with people from every corner sport standby then for nick patel so nick patel thanks coming up right. Loria think no no. No i just wondered is that was always the plan. Is that something that you were born to do. Started lor at university and always thought. That's where i was likely to end up as a lawyer. What happens on didn't just end up there but that was the plan initially. Well you're going to be the great barrister. studying core. Putting murderers in jail was at the initial aspiration spender at a time. Where the cousin of mine who's now. Qc's criminal qc. And i spent some time with him. Going around the courts. I hated the idea of being a barrister having seen him in action. Maybe he wasn't the greatest role model. I don't think david will be listening to this. But he he never read his papers until the morning. Any it just wasn't for me. And that's what i'm afraid sent me down route to becoming a solicitor and my father was always buys. That helped was sports. Laura thing then we had nick coward on the podcast. He was a fellow lawyer than he was making the point that actually the the sports law create an exist that point absolutely not no such thing as sports lauren. Those days arguable. Whether there's offs sprinkled sports law now. I just went into general practice. I was lucky enough to recognize that. There was no-one specializing in acting for sports. People sports events and we had a couple of clients in the sports world. And i thought well this might be an interesting area to concentrate on so i spent a few years just going after clients who was interested in acting foreign. Loves lucky enough to start acting for a lot of our snow plows that then morphed into acting for people like a lotta mouth and from nineteen eighty four wimbledon nine thousand nine hundred ninety radikal eighty nine. It was fairly early on in my career that we went down that route but it wasn't obsolete not plan going in also. Would you have been doing for arsenal at that point. Yeah i listen. We acted it for people. Like george graham. And frank mclintock bob mcnab and people of that nature. That was just general work. They were sports people. There wasn't really much then about negotiating player contracts because there was just one really standard plaque on. You didn't really nick. Negotiator acting for events though was much more Funding those days. Let's talk about the london marathon. Then it's an incredible things become an incredible thing What do you feel on race day. It's a mixture of fear. Pride an awful feeling in your stomach that something's desperately about to go wrong but there is nothing quite like standing on that. Finish line watching. It's not watching the elite. You love them in. People elliott show. Y'all immensely brilliant athletes. But it's not quite the same as standing there watching whoever it is you know. I'm a my wife. When she ran the look of joy and tears and pain in her face as she crossed that line that moment in their life where they've achieved an amazing goal and they've done it in front of an enormous crowd that on the same day very often as their sporting heroes. the paula radcliffe mo fires of this world. And you just don't get that in any other type of sport. That's what so unique. And that's what i love. What do you think is the enduring legacy of the marathon on on sort of pretty sport landscape. I think it's changed. Britain and its attitude to running when chris brasher and john veasley founded the london marathon. A nine hundred ninety one was the first year and they found it. I and something like six percent of the runs the first year women. Most of the others were stick. Thin white men a number one question that they would be asked is. What's your personal best. And what's happened through under matha and is changed the nature of running its democratized at anyone and everyone can run but the number one question you now get if you're running the london. Marathon is which charity. You're running for so that latian. Our relationship with running as a form of exercise has completely changed. And i think that's entirely down to london marathon. You draw a line between the marathon and park right now. I don't i think part run has by the way which is a fantastic initiative. It was financially supported by london marathon. It's very days. I think that grew out of the running boom and actually benefited from those people who are trying to find a running community very often because running can be a fairly lonely existence and this idea of merging running a community hub community event. That's what pulled in jet did so brilliant. That was his concept and bring it together. I think they complement each other. Fantastically i think of new york and london. What's it like that that circuit the sort of business commercial side of of the global market americans. I mean every city. Every major city in the world and i have a lot of minuses have marathons and the history of marathons are but they weren't formed by federations. They weren't formed by cities. They were usually some maverick some local or bowl. He decided to stall the marathon. It's only in recent years there has been moved to commercialize them. You've got people like iron man before them. Competitor group aso in france. Trying to now make it a corporate business but the roots of and i think the reason it was so successful is that it wasn't run by the usual blazer brigade it was run by by runners for usually people who've had slightly off the wall approaches. And that still that still features client heavily. These are these are community running communities very often who are not only part of the people who've put it on but they're the volunteers. Without whom none of these events concede know we got six and a half thousand volts his and the vast majority of those will come from the running community so it's very different beasts to almost any other major sports event is out there and a very clever use of celebrities. I always saw a member going on. The sort of legendary press trip to la manga and thinking is going to be really. Boring is actually extraordinary. Affair and i was conducted a lift frank bruno and paula reckless. And if i was ever going to write a sitcom that would be the opening scene. But was that accidental. Use a celebrity or was it always part the strategy. No it was. It was entirely accidental. As will fancy dress. The first person he really did fancy dress was a swiss ueta dressed as a waiter. He had a silver tray on which he balanced the bottle. A glass bottle of water. And i think one gloss and he ran the whole way round and it garnered amazing. He of celebrity garnered amazing views and reaction and that that really was a spot for fancy dress and in the same way it was never planned for celebrity was a couple of people. You may remember the infamous. Roy hudd and emu he was one of the early was not talking major motion stars. It's not like today when you get hollywood stars running them but it. It did spark a thought in the minds of ourselves. Which was this idea that the marathon should be able to have a story every page of a newspaper. it shouldn't just be for the back page. you would. If gordon ramsay was running and you know he was an early adopter. Then that's great because we get something on the pages on the food and drink pages if you had had mark carney. The then governor. The bank of england running from the finance pages go. There shouldn't be a page where you couldn't get into and it was the realization that you can do that through great human interest stories and celebrities. It is a mixture of both interesting. Also the role of the bbc in start. You started seeing over the over the years. Yeah very much so and if you look at our coverage. The bbc still bbc sport. Who responsible for it but very often. It's not just the sports voices that are commentating on. You might have a blue piece presenter during the mini marathon. You might have someone else. The radzi doing kids races. Now so you'll have various voices. And i think if you look what they did last year the way that they covered an elite event and a socially distanced. Virtual event was brilliant. They weave those stories throughout the coverage and that is just an extension of what they have tried to do. I think over the is up will often be on the one show and it won't be the only athlete that they're taking it. It's as i said earlier. The whole success of the marathon is not just about the elite athletes. Okay so let's take that and jumped your other job. Which is chair of sport. England for eight years coming to the end of your tenure in april. And i wondering what you've learned about incentives but in terms of getting people moving which is obviously fundamental spor england's row a lot of government money a lotta marketing money's going into the idea that we are inspired to take action by looking at the sort of superheroes on the track and on the football field hockey pitch. I'm losing faith in the argument. What do you think what what what have you learned about. Incentives in the way the way in which They work one of the things. I did when i came to sporting lind was a hope. Anyway really boost its insight function and we discovered. I think it's something. I always instinctively knew but i think we proved it but when it comes to inspiring someone into activity. It's very unlikely to be the superstar. That's going to do that if you're a talented than absolutely you know if your on that talent paul way if you're a really great on eleven year old tennis player than seeing andy murray win. Wimbledon will absolutely do it. But what we've seen we can. We've proven it through. Statistics statistical analysis. Is it actually andy. Murray one have a lasting effect on. People bringing their rackets to their local parks. That's not how it works. You'll much much more likely to be inspired by your parents by your peers or your teachers and that inside i think has led us to sporting radically change our approach so that will now dominating our funding through governing bodies because there are other ways to reach people governing bodies de some people might think over these anti governing bodies. It's not true. I think they're very good within their limits and we. I think what we've done is helped them understand their limits and think about how else you can inspire people to get. Active citing is probably the greatest example. Where i think british cycling has was a hundred and fifty thousand members. Something like that this three point. Two million people that regularly cycle so they. They can't really claim to be able to govern the whole of cycling other out people the substrate cycling. Uk is all sorts of people in that mix who people will rely on but ultimately it's have your parents taught you to cycle. What are the roads like. The safe is likely somewhere to store your bike. And that wraparound thoughts of how you encourage people how you keep people acts if that's what i hope that we've been doing sporting and until covid nineteen we've been doing it very successfully. The number of people active in this country had been going up the only country to increase activity levels after holding an olympic games. Would you think of the limits of government policy in this area. There are quite a few actually first of all the the. If you're going to get people act if you have to do that. Started at school and school. Sport is in the hands of the education department is not enhanced. The department of culture media and sport tracey crouch was first approached about being sports minister. She said to them promise to give me school sport. And unfortunately he didn't and so the result is that you in education terms you down. The pecking order. I think being active. And i think the evidence is there is an integral of actually whether or not you're going to be around people and also educational attainment but the actual results are sport and physical recreation get squeezed out in the curriculum. It's not measured as success. You know it doesn't offset inspect. Don't go in and say is this a great school because it's producing really rounded people who are healthy and you know their bmi index is coming down all sort of measure the only measuring exams by large simplification. So that's a limitation of government policy. If you really wants to address physical activity and the lack of people doing that. That's the first thing the second limitation is that we have a devolved system so whilst yeah the government has a central role to play sports facilities is down to local authorities as you squeeze more and more local authority budgets and sport is not a statutory service. They don't have to provide support. But i'd have to have sports facilities. I only have to have parks. If you can't afford to pay feel old age homes. Then something's going to give so again. That's that seems to me. A bit of a failure of national policy whether it's down government or local government. that's a real issue. So you've had eight years chairing sports over that time. Have you changed your mind on anything. Yeah i have I have. I think though what i've come to realize which paps i didn't recognize initially is what those barriers were. The people taking part in exercise we did some groundbreaking work which led to a campaign called the skill can which i hope you in your listeners will will recall and that cannot research showed that a major reason. The young women goals export is. There was a fear of being judged. You came off a sports cole or arana need. Didn't look great and people look down on you slightly scams It wasn't sometimes society. Thinking isn't feminine Some ethnic minorities thinking that being scantily dressed is an issue so that fear of being judged walls a major factor that that sort of learning something that i. It wasn't natural to me. I came to us throughout my tenure. And i i hope allowed us to act upon it which has made a major difference. You know we've we've had closed that gap between men and women exercising no entirely. But we've cut it down drastically the my the one thing that we haven't done yet is address the gap when it comes to socio economic reasons if you are in socio economic groups one into the most wealthy they get seventeen. Percents likely to be active. Your thirty seven percent likely to be an active if you're in the bottom socio economic groups and fully understanding that and how to address it. That's the we've done a little work on. But heck of lot more stills do you mentioned governing bodies there and they are sort of easy to to knock people criticize them quite a bit. Is there a model for a sports governing body that you carry around sort of utopians advi ideal that you measure them against. I'm certain models of how a governing body should act as a model governance and things of that nature but in terms of what they do it will very completely because this notion of a governing body itself. Perhaps these a bit of a challenge. You're going to have a spotlight or be league. Where virtually everyone who plays. Rugby league is within the the nfl family. Because it's all organized as all leagues compare that to football where the vast majority of football is played. Actually by people in league's manager there in local five aside leagues or they just pick up games or people kicking the ball about in the park or whatever it might be and then you get say to someone like cycling and running where the governing bodies have very little influence actually over the totality of what goes on somebody like part robert scott one oval by ever wanted one off maybe nearly two million them. I think it is in this country. England got one hundred forty thousand nine hundred sixty thousand members so which one has more influence. You'd think so. There's no particular model. The the limitation on governing bodies is that they all member organizations generally the they exist to serve them member interest. Now that may be fantastic. But what it means is they. Don't actually know very much about. The people aren't their customers. That don't seem to own judaism. Got the heads around the people who could do their sports. But don't and that's that trying to get them into that realization that they need to do that. Naw every governing body is going to do it an arm. i remember scientists. One of my early meetings offer became chair with the chair. The chair push wrestling. Who said he had a brilliant plan for the future wrestling in britain he was going to go aggressively off the people who did judo. Convert them into restless now. It didn't add one iota. So the health of the nation all ghibli wrestling have a shorter shelf. Life and people who do does doesn't actually it would detract from it. But he's whole the whole mindset necessarily just having him no mindset of governing bodies were not. I want to get more people active. I want to get it was. I want to get people doing my sport and the one thing that we've tried to get them into this idea. I don't care whether you've got under thousand eight. Hundred thousand people doing spoil. I care about whether your contributing to being britain being more active nation. Yeah that's interesting. We had as i mentioned nick howard on last week chair of uk athletics and he questions the role of verticals or categorizing sport in verticals. Is that so you would agree with him about it. Sorts the lawyers answer but it depends because he's a lawyer as well. I'm if he is running. Rugby league is always going to be fairly vertical. Because it's very difficult to see how outside coming comes into it but in most cases it's definitely going to be through partnerships. And you come that if you're trying to be swimming you don't own the swimming pools you don't teach swing in schools. You can only do it. Three partnerships from working in conjunction throat with a wide variety of stakeholders so vertical. They're calm do you think that the allocation of money or the attribution of credit i guess for sporting activity two governing bodies is right. It feels like sometimes. It's quite a clunky process. And that you know again using pot ramsey's arm poise. You said there is a running is happening. But but how much of it can be attributed to actual governing bodies and but they do need to be able to take credit for into need to attach themselves to the activity. I think we could've wife from this thought that we can buy us out of in activity. It's exporting has got a great budget you know. We got three hundred million pounds to spend a year through mixture of exchequer lottery. That's less than five pounds. A person per year the change behavior for a nation with that is just not possible. So the what you have to do. Is you have to have the right facilities in the right places. Change the behavior of those who are offering sport. that's a much better intervention. The necessarily saying. I'm gonna it's gonna cost me a hundred pounds to train up someone to be a good rugby league. They're being player. If i can just use this. As as an example we spent on the public domain stuff we spent ten million pounds own. This skill can that changed mindset changed behavior of millions of people. It's a much better intervention. The may trying to put on thousands and thousands of gym sessions again one of the researchers that we did and i'm not a great fan of focus groups but we did some work with a thousand young people who weren't particularly active and we are one of the questions we ask them walls. What were do associate with sport. So richard ask you that question. What word do you associate one word use associate with. Sport poetry tina. I'm kidding fun okay. We had siamese different answers. Know they rain from sweats and losing and winning mudder members one of them but not one of those thousand kids said fun. Now elicits fun. Why are you going to do it when you leave school. Very few people go and do algebra off the leaves go just for the fun of it so that leads to an inside the what we gonna do is change. The way that sport is taught in schools so again is the enabling investment that i think becomes so important of course there's investment in the not symbols we train coaches. We need to have swimming pools. We need to have tennis courts. Bunch changing attitudes is much wider a more complex issue as a question here. i guess about gold medals. We spend a lot of money in terms of government money trying to get gold medals and i wonder about the inspiration effect or the inspirational effective of winning. Those goldman's is we should just leave to dictators and aspiring democracies. Were all on now. And i don't think we should be. I've been a board member of uk spot on and off for fourteen years. So you'll expect me. I'm sure to say that's winning. Medals has got a really important role. Plays just not that role of playing by and large of maybe inspiring the mass. It will inspire the next generation of great athletes and occasionally it will change behavior so nicaraguans gave permission was needed but it gave the idea credence. Women could be boxes and it was a similar moment. She changed the nature of women's boxing in this country. But there are other reasons that we do it Having role having those moments in time dale good for the soul of the nation britain came together to celebrate sixty six medals and in two thousand twelve increasing that number at rio that they that does something which very few things can do certainly is. There's nothing in culture. The cut through to the nation gives them that moment in the same way. I'm west hand fan. And a much. As though i would love to think that west embracing west brom last night's one would inspire the nation and give a briton. A boost his quite the same as mo farah winning two gold medals. My favorite david moyes equal appear in the same sentence when it comes to inspiration something. I mentioned a couple of times on the man is to teach one of the one of the features of when we ever had money. This is in the public sector quite often. The temptation was to spend money on buildings. Jin's computer block signs blocks rather than human beings teachers training which is messier and harder to to show progress because it takes longer. How do you decide how to allocate the money when you do have it. We need folks come you them singularly sports facilities we have invested a lot of money in their local authorities have that they're an absolute necessity. You can't teach someone swimmer without swimming. Pool the difficulty is the over the last eight years. The amount of public investment in facilities is actually gone down and that's largely because of local authorities spending local authorities eight years ago. We're spending one point. Five billion a year on sport and recreation. And i think that is now somewhere well pre covid. It was about eight hundred million so it's gone down fifty percent that long term. It's not sustainable. Because so much of our facility stock is quite old but we also need to have a slightly different approach One of the things. I don't think we've done particularly well at everyone's try but we haven't done uptight. Well is sharing a sports school facilities. They're all they're all spoil schools. Who still don't shed if syllogies with local people. We need to open those up. People generally don't travel that far to take part in their sport and recreation. It needs to be on their doorsteps and creating the school is the center of your hub. This really interesting. Golden bradford at the moment around a project code schools. I think going to see if that works if it if it doesn't really hope it does that great local authority. I could be a muddle which we roll out for the rest of the country okay. Sorta innovation question really. And i wonder first of all if we pet is innovation a bit sort of over sell its impact in underplay the the cost associated with it but broader than that for the story to work we have to characterize governing bodies so sleepy bureaucracies up against the so thrilling decisive market lead private sector that was going to transform everything just wondering i guess. The question is what. The role of the governing body is in innovations however that's defined digital transformation or or the data from data future. What what what. What is their role. The caught to recognize the value and embrace it. I'm afraid far too often. I filed in that regard for many many is paul from moose entirely looked down upon by the athletics governing board is. There's a famous story told about power league in five aside football when they went to see the faa and said look let's work together and the f. I said not too many years said you're five foot. Well that's not the game. It's eleven aside on grass. Not only did not cooperate with them but they actually change the rules said if the referee officiated a five aside private games they couldn't officiate in the eleven assault game. So it's i think the risk is that we fest shot fetish allies tradition. The tradition has a fantastic role. Of course you know. We're looking at recent. Just at the moment challenges for the america's cup the world's oldest sports trophy and that's fantastic now but the boats are recognizable. So you can celebrate your history and have innovation at the same time and this unafraid too. Many sports of only celebrated their history. And think it's frozen in a moment of time never change and that's that's sometimes because they aren't good at recognizing the need to change that's where private sector has come enforced. Reassessment not always brutally successfully of course but a lot of the substantial ambitious changes have come about because of the intervention the private sector we had done david bedford on the podcast. And i asked him this question. I ask it reasonably regularly. which is the park. Ground question could pop ron or and innovation like that have emerged from within a governing body or does it have to come from the outside. Is there something culturally stopping it from happening within a governing body i. I'm trying to think on the spur whether i can think of in recent times a really groundbreaking initiative that started in governing bodies. And i'd i'd struggle this government but it's certainly made improvements that are low end of the level badminton. Gb program could no strings badminton which was a good idea. But the scale of the ideas of one day cricket. You know the packer circus back along. Well i remember that. Tony greg or park on all five aside football that touch rugby you know. A lot of that has not come out of of governing bodies because they felt challenged by them rav embracing change in terms of technology. Yeah they're very often argued. I'm in acts of wimbledon at many many years. I think they'd been brilliant at embracing change. Things hawkeye wondering about on a more practical level as well that sport england are releasing their strategic plan for the next ten years. And i'm wondering about the relationship with external finance and where that plays in the in that period of time because oversee. We're we're in a moment. Where lots of sportsmen sports governing bodies lots of external sort of providers of cash private equity or to all sorts of venture capital. What do you think about that in terms of where that plays what role that plays in the evolution of grassroots sport risk involved in it they clearly is part of the job but the very substantial risk one of the problems if you look at say rugby union the number of teams being put out on the field has drastically fallen clubs putting l. eight different men's teams on a saturday that those days are long in many many cases and partially the reason is that they've wanted to concentrate their money and efforts on the senior team in order to chase the big box in. That's what professionalism brought about so there are risks of that nature the private sector bream money in on the other hand. I think can have incredible benefits. I'd love to see greater investments pension funds for instance into sports centers. A private public partnership to put on sports centres could absolutely transform the nature of our sporting infrastructure. There's a return will run spouses as a one up in warrington. Nuremberg going to where it's got a library. It's gonna police station. Went to sheffield graves where it's health center and Five aside facilities. They're all models there. And i think that's where i would love to see more private investment but at the moment the private investment seems to be going into ownership of leagues. I'm not entirely sure that might benefit the private investors and it may benefit the agents and the owners. But i'm not entirely sure of yet. Seen evidence that in much benefit for the public. So there's a code question. Obviously we can't get beyond have this conversation not have the covid question. How bad is it. What's the picture that you're seeing for sport and activity up and down the country. It's bad and it's going to take a really long time to recover. It's bad and one of the things we've shown is it's decimated the number of children meeting the required guidelines on the amount sport they are doing that is going to store up long term health issues for this country. We're seeing the differences between the haves and the have nots growing in terms of sporting activity. It's exasperated inequalities black or asian. Your far more likely to be an active as a result of covid than if you were watching middle class. I think the longer term structural issues. The ones that really coles may a grave concern. We've already seen quite a lot. Sports facilities being shuttered and. I'm i put one hundred million pounds towards local authorities. Sports facilities vo us very welcome. But it's nowhere near what's needed and we've got sports looking enviously. Thank the support that was given to culture culture got one point five billion and sport hundred millions of services three hundred million into the winter survival plan incredibly welcoming and not belittling. Who's a lot of money. Might a real difference. But we're going to need much more than that to get out of this and get out of this quickly. Is that a lobbying issue. We just go to bed route into government. I'm not sure necessarily lobbing it may be because sport has been quite if you turn on your tv. You will see football taking place. You will see rugby. You will see boxing and snooka. So maybe the urgency in the minds of decision makers isn't maybe there the absolutely not proven decimation to people's health through not being able to exercise as much that's hidden to some extent and maybe that has meant the. We haven't had that urgency of government policy. I've got to say this in defense of the government. Even in the strictest lockdown you've been able to exercise there are plenty of countries around spain. Italy where you weren't allowed to you weren't allowed to go out your front door. The actually i certainly weren't allowed to go up for ronald cycle so happy really positive recognitions of the values people but we need to do more painted already obviously realistic but pretty grim picture of what's going on around the country in relation to sport at the moment you in the covid period. Is there any good news anything that we can cling to. That will point to how we get out of this mess. The good the good news is that because running and cycling of being allowed. Those have had i post. Some people have got understood the delights of that and walking. Oh although it says sporting above the door we're not very likely to go and get a seventy five or five year old going and doing their first run. You've got to get the moving moving start with the movement. So i think we have. We've really have as a nation appreciated Moving for the first time for a long time. I think that that has been. That's that's part of the positive and we all creatures of habit so maybe those people who have discovered running and cycling and walking maybe will continue that someone just earlier. this morning. who was reporting. I did see this. Actually walking's become core. You know it's become really social thing to do. Well if walking and running can become cool. How amazing is that. You're to be tricky to joe wicks. Well listen thanks very much for your time really enjoyed. That is something to replace your sport england job. Now you've in april when you leave you. Can you can go home away now. I guess i don't know may want to listen. This is a great idea for me. I don't know. I'm i've really enjoyed much on foreign despondent kobe. Despite all of the headaches. I think i've got. I've had a great chief executive in jenny. Prosser great chief executive now tim hollingsworth. I'm sorry that i won't be there to be partners with them. In the future setup brilliantly to succeed. I'd love to think that i've got another job in may which i could helps overnight move forward the way that will hopefully add helped sporting linda. Well we've got a lot less. Oh i'm sure we'll find you something some some someone needs something doing and we'll get a campaign going. Thanks a lot nick. Thanks for your time cheers.

nick patel london richard gearless Loria nick coward england frank mclintock bob mcnab chris brasher john veasley matha bbc Competitor group Roy hudd football uk department of culture media tracey crouch george graham
Motor City meltdown

Golden Edge - Vegas Golden Knights Hockey

29:20 min | 1 year ago

Motor City meltdown

"Golden Age podcast is sponsored by. SDN SPORTS FROM STATION CASINOS SDN. Sports is the only sports betting APP. You need this season. Sign up today and get a new sign up bonus of up to fifty dollars golden edge presented by SDN sports mobile from station casinos. What is up hockey hockey fans? This is the Review Journal's Golden Edge. podcast coming at you on a Wednesday morning the morning before the Golden Knights play the Chicago Blackhawks at T.. Mobile arena. We know those games night but we want to send you some audio goodness because a lot has happened in the weeks since we last talked go knights have logged a lot of smiles as has my intrepid colleague. David Shane Dave. How're you doing good refreshed Refresher Day Office Day off? You know ready to go all set. No more complaining not complaining. Well I think the fans a lot of complaints about how the Golden Knights weighing right. Now I know my email has been packed with them but before we get to that we want to remind you that the gold niche podcast is presented by SDN sports mobile from station casinos. We try to hit you guys up every week with a new episode and of course like like subscribe. Find us on Itunes Stitcher spotify. Wherever you get your podcast leave us a nice review and of course check out all our coverage at review journal Dot Com so Dave you've fans have complaints and it's hard to blame him? The golden's ended a one to one road trip with a three two loss to the Detroit. Red Wings the Red Wings. Who believe after that game still had a negative thirty goal differential to lead the league for worst goal differential and Brayden mcnabb McNab? I still have not figured out what he was doing. On the play that led to the game winning goal. Have you now. But so if you're going to bring that up let's talk about the whole plan okay and in total context because everybody's GonNa throw it on Brayden mcnabb. Yeah like what are you doing. Just just get overtime get a point. There's thirty seconds left you get into overtime and get point and maybe to ninety and nothing par part of my thing. And maybe I'll ask you this. I didn't see like glove it. Because he went after with his stick like he kikinda was trying to knock it out of air. That was a little Hollywood of of a play. If you ask me if he could have gloved it down once you commit to to that like you have to knock knocked down that park sell out right because you shouldn't be in that spot in the first place but here's a bigger picture because I literally went back when I got home. Tom and watched after the second goal for the last nine minutes okay. They sat third winger high on the Blue Line. There was a there was shit. Jonathan marches was literally so far back in the neutral zone sitting back. They were lying three across on their own Blue Line. When Detroit to have the puck they were absolutely sitting back trying to play for a point on the last shift? Riley Smith is down in the corner. Jonathan marched those like pretty much in front of the net. And William Carlson's below the faceoff dots and Riley Smith loses the PUCK in the corner. They make one pass up the board Fabri. He makes the Rink Wide Pass. So everybody sees the mcnabb thing but for nine minutes you sat back and you played for a point and then with thirty seconds left you had three guys check and below the face off thoughts So so is that system. Is that just. Somebody's shutoff. Is that not understanding the lion between aggressiveness. This and wind. Just peel back in and take what you got because to me they played they pretty much did what they had to do. In that game. And then Malcolm Sudan doesn't make save and then you have to get a point and they did it that's the biggest that's me is where it's inexcusable. And yes sprayed mcnabb makes the mistake. But that's a five-man mistake. Nate Schmitz down. There pinched along the wall to adopt point. Like why did you shut off after eight and half minutes of playing a certain way in on this one shift you just decide. Let's go for it. Yeah are so didn't exactly hustle back on that play in question either. There's a lot that's going wrong for the Golden Knights right now. Now coach grant was happy to point out yesterday that. Hey We haven't hit rock bottom as of this recording. They are nine seven and three so they have lost more games then they have one but it's still technically an improvement over last season's eight eleven one start. They are not that far out of the playoff laugh picture even though they are out of the playoff picture as a record this but didn't get to the way that they're doing it that is getting people. Frustrated have twenty penalties. They turn the puck doc over too much especially against good teams They still can't win and overtime either. And they've lost a lot of points that way. They can't be good teams as evidenced by the drubbing banged the Washington capitals handed them and now of course with the loss to the redwings a can't even beat bad teams at least on the road and they they're blowing gene leads and so I a locker room yesterday. A lot of guys just talking about. We don't respond well to adversity right now. When something bad happens in the game mm-hmm we shut down and instead of just attacking attacking attacking and that was an interesting admission to hear? Because I mean this is a team. That's had a lot of pride in a lot of confidence so far in as young existence these of in players that are not afraid to go for and play aggressively and to hear that this team's teams playing scared at times. Little bit was a little bit stunning to me. What do you make of that? I would go to the game. Why did you do what you did in the last minute then like an an? That's an understanding of of. Where's the line of of aggressiveness? And going for it. Because to me if you're GONNA say okay we have to put the the pedal to the metal and we have to go. The may have to be okay with with how that goal happened except for the mcnabb play. You know what I mean and and I don't think they can live with that so it's a lot of identity in in that regard. I don't think they've figured out who they are in that sense. No and and it's it's you know. Are you going to look like you did against the ducks and play fast. And look like you did in two thousand seventeen eighteen when you made the Stanley Cup final. And and you kind of played with the pedal to the metal. A little bit played a little. I don't WanNa say reckless by nothing to lose. You know right now. There's a little more to lose their third. The expectations are higher. Everything's different. I don't think they've figured out kind of you know look. Are we gonNA just overwhelm teams. Are we going to have to grind out games. Because I think Max Patriot guys keep talking about. We don't want a superstar team and we you have to grind out games and and that's fine and I actually give them credit on the road trip for the most part thought they grinded out game in Columbus. I give them actually a heck of a lot of credit in Toronto. Everybody's focused on the loss. I think they earn a point there. Absolutely you know like I give them credit road performance except for the penalties gave them too many chances. That's the only thing that will hold the you know the whatever and then Washington it's three two going into the third period and then then they basically got overwhelmed by the team that's playing the best in the NHL Right now you know. And then the Detroit game and then the problem with the with everything. Is the troy game kind of swings the narrative so much and if you get a point or if you get over timing to out of there it's completely different feeling than going home with zero and three of eight on the trip and everything everything like that. I it at one point. I think it was in Washington jargon was talking about how how as a coach you nitpick and whenever but we're like five two in three in our last ten or whatever it was at that point so even he recognized like yeah. There are some things that need to improving. Yeah we've underachieved but you know it's not. The Sky is falling so to speak. They don't need to go through a whole reset here. No and a lot of their issues that we've talked about of course. Penalties turnovers identity. I mean that's not you know. Need a swing a big trade or blow up the roster's genius to figure out how to get more out of the group that you have right now and I might disagree with you there really. Yeah on defense. That's fair because I'm just not seeing eye. They need an upgrade. I don't know where it's GONNA come from. I don't see it internally. It's there's they're they're not good enough right now and defense with whatever combinations are trying to put together and they're getting exposed to much back there. They're not getting a whole heck of a lot of help from the forwards. It's not that five men kind of defensive unit you know there's too many coverage breakdowns. They run basically man on man in the defensive zone. You can spot for for the most part who is kind on of responsibility for certain things you know you can see you go. I'm trying to remember which was the one dollars that I'd like March so was clearly late. Clearly that him sneak through you know so I mean there are things that you can absolutely point out in the defensive zone the forwards into help out with. But if I'M GONNA look at them objectively Vania upgrade on defense and I don't know that it comes internally. I haven't seen it yet. Maybe it's white cloud. Yeah you got got a number of guys down there. I mean. Let's talk about that a little bit because the defense is certainly going to be a talking point moving forward starting with the fact that they may dare gangland a healthy scratch. We've talked about England on the last podcasts. In how the numbers for him. We're just really not pretty and so finally they decided all right. We're we're GONNA sit him. In Columbus John Merrill has a just wail of game in Washington where he falls asleep in the first minute of the game I was I. Yeah Yup and you just was a rough game for him. So D- England draws back in and so on one hand it's probably good that glance starting to have a little bit of a heavier hand back there in terms of like are A. I'm really GonNa let you know if you play bad. You're going to get yanked on the other hand. I mean you brought it up that you think they need to upgrade. I don't think if you could go through the list of Defenseman. They've played so far this year. And say okay. That's the guy that's having a really good season season and a lot of these guys you know. We're at least relatively I guess high might be. We're we're but we are comfortable with the Blanche. mcnabb is been a consistent producer in his three seasons here or at least two season before this. He hasn't this year. John Merrill stepped up last year. Hasn't carried it over this year. Old's been fine not expecting much. That's for him. Theodore's not getting on the scoresheet. Obviously playing with Nicholas Hag. Maybe as inhibiting him there but that's certainly not working and niche commit hasn't jumped out in his first couple games back from injury at so. There's no one that you're really getting excited about on their Blue Line right now. Yeah and and I. I would go to Theodore Theodore especially you know. He's a guy that you paid some good money to and and he's starting to get to that age where you know experiencewise. Why is he's over two hundred games and I think he's twenty four You know so so you need to start seeing a jump from him and I mean obviously that first unit power play has been good when he's been out there but I think I'm not one hundred percent on this. You're the computer over over there. You can look this up. He got tacked on a secondary assist up in Detroit. I think that was his second point in the last thirteen games. Yeah something around that you know now. Now I'm not saying he should be a you know John Carlson and basically leading all defensemen in scoring but you need more production from him and I think you bring up a good point. When he's been partnered with Nick Egg you know that they're probably you know worried about look take care of our own end first and then maybe the offense in they've sacrificed? Did you know to try to take care of their own end in. I mean other than the Washington game. What they gave up one goal in Columbus to in Toronto? Three in Detroit. So I wouldn't say defense is necessarily been. They're not leaking goals so quite clearly. They're they're looking at dot in and and it's not it's not like I said they're not just they're not getting overwhelmed back there but you need to see more on the other end you need to see you need to see more production all these teams it's NHL now it was. It was talked about in Washington and and actually think we can talk about this Chicago a little bit too because the last few games Chicago System Wise and they've been very open about this. They are opened up. They were very tight defensively to start the season and they were very conservative and the last few games. Jeremy said okay. Let's go rains off last year. kind of worked. You know we have to strike a balance here little bit. But he's let them go a a little bit. I want. I'm curious to see tonight kind of what we see. And and maybe that's the one thing with juggling what he can do. I don't know system wise. He always talks about well. You know we we do what we do and nobody really does anything different but I wonder system wise if he can do something at this point and say you know. Let's let's open this thing coming up. We're so worried about being tight defensively. Let's go for it a little bit here. Yeah let's talk about Glenn a little bit. I want to finish off the point on Theodore by just saying got seven points this year. which is you know not what you want from him? Through nineteen games and four of those points. All assists came on the power play. He's got two point. Two shooting percentage right now. Now what you want from a guy who's making five point two million dollars this year. Obviously there's some extended circumstances there but we're GonNa talk about what jar glint Kenner cannot do or should or should not do with this team when we come back after some brief messages following a team you love in two thousand nine hundred can be time consuming trying to follow everything happening in sports almost impossible swirling through every APP and visiting every website on a daily basis is also impossible. That's why I subscribe to Axios Sports. The Best Free daily newsletter in the land axios sports is a modern sports. Page delivered directly to your email inbox when you sign up for free at sports DOT AXIOS DOT com get the best stories from the NBA NFL to cricket and Ping Pong and everything in between axios sports also highlights the most important stats and trends giving you the ability to stay informed. It's super simple to sign up and it's free sports DOT AXIOS DOT com. That's a X.. IOS Dot Com. Not Not only. Will you be caught up. You'll be the French sharing an amazing link with your buddies. Join the one hundred thousand sports fans who get caught up on the day before it even begins and best of all there's no pay wall. No subscription fee nothing. This is free curated sports content delivered directly to you sign up at sports DOT AXIOS DOT com again try for free at sports DOT AXIOS DOT com. Have you ever seen untucked buttoned-down they look bad. Why why because they weren't meant to be worn that way? Thankfully there's untuckit the original button-down shirt actually designed to be worn untucked. No matter your size or shape untuckit shirts always fall of the perfect untucked length and with the holidays near. There's no better gift your favorite guy who needs an upgrade. I mean I've I've had problems with shirt shopping in the past six foot five and it's hard for people to shop with me but I love how easy it is to get untucked shirts and I think they look great. Great so whether you're shopping for the perfect holiday gift or just trying to craft a smart relaxed style of your own untuckit is the way to go visit untuckit dot com and use code blue you for twenty percent off at checkout. That's U. N. T. U. C. K. I. T. Dot Com Promo Code blue for twenty percent off all right. So we're back and I WANNA talk about what coach. George Glance should do with this team because his coaching style. More than even just systems wise is always has been really intriguing. What I think he gets criticized for at times this year and he got criticized for it in Florida? Is he sticks with his guys. Even when things aren't necessarily going well he doesn't put his lines in a blender game to game at least in the middle of a game if he's looking for a spark he might generally does not make big changes to his lineup. He lets his players figure it out and he tries to convey to them like. Hey I have confidence in you play your game and what kind of get through it and so I think we have this conversation all the time when things are not going well for the knights should he continue to stay the course or is this one of those situations where it might be time To you know either on defense or certainly with the third line try some new things so what always worries me in. That situation is the message it sends if you send it into the blender because it kind of looks like you're getting a little desperate and you're getting to the point of are we all just freaking freaking out and doing the Jerry Maguire thing and. I don't think that's the message that should be coming across right now. I don't think the freakout should be where the nights are out. I don't think they do the whole reset thing that being said Alex Tuck is coming back. It looks like and it would be a good time. Came to do it with him coming back. If you're going to do it. This seems like all right. Let's let's see what happens. Is Mick some things up because now I guess the counter to that would be what happens if he energizes the third line the way he did that one game because that was pretty evident with him out there that that third-line elevated him cody glass. Cody Eakin that was a pretty effective line. So if you've all of a sudden feel like okay now we have a third line that can roll. We can enroll four. Maybe that opens things up for the top two maybe just filters down. I don't know but if you're going to do if you're GONNA if you're gonNA mix and match I. I think it would be the time because Alex coming back. I just don't like the message that it sends because I don't think I don't think they need a whole. You know we need. We need to try awesome different kind of kind of mentality right now. No and I would agree. I mean especially with the top six. I think you had to play it out. Like I think there's guys that certainly aren't having good seasons Mark Stone Tone and Pastas near both in kind of scoring droughts Jonathan Marsh. So I think is not having a good year so far after having not-so-good your last year but I think the third line would be the spot that you might have to make a move at some point. We'll see whether tubs 'cause I mean cody. Logan talked about after Tux. First game how much he opens up the ice for them with his speed for him. And Cody Glass and how much that helps both of their games that they have more room to operate because Alex just draws so much attention and we'll see if that plays out but obviously cody in three points in fifteen games is an area where at what point do you give. Cody cody glasses. Shot in the middle there. Yeah I mean it's a possibility I just don't know what you do on the wings if that if that's the case I think that's part of the whole issue for right now is just. They don't have a lot of depth organizationally they don't have a lot of options. It's not like they have. It's not like cody Lhasa's down in Chicago. Tearing it up and they can go. Oh let's bring the kid up. And maybe he'll inject some wife and fix the problem that he's already up he's already plenty. You know what I'm saying. Right or they're they're they don't have any other choices in a lottery guard. He's tried Brennan period. Brennan period hasn't really got hot yet and brand Perry. Even you know admitted. Ah Yeah. I'm streaky guy. I haven't really got going. You know everybody Kinda knows a secret. no six been kind of you know up there a little bit. He's been down with the fourth line. The Wall like there's nobody that they can. You know I mean what you bring Lucas Elvis up. I you know that seems a little early for him him as well as you know. You're not GonNa Sign Jack. Do out of Providence. Right now I I you know I don't think paying crabs is the the answer Based on whatever practice he you could probably give a better assessment of that is he which by the way is even not even signed or not signed? ELC L. C.. And he very much looks like an eighteen year old playing with men right now so probably worth it to get him back to junior right so I mean there's not a whole heck of a lot of options here where or they can just go like. Well maybe we'll try. Try this I think. The the mixing and matching the lines. You know throw that that's an interesting point you raise because I think it's maybe I'm overstating the whole you know. That looks desperate or or whatever because I think it's more obviously more common tactic you know in the NHL. That I'm clearly giving credit for by. I just third line has gotta get fixed. It's gotta be affixed if if it's Alex talk if it's you know something because right now it's the problem is it's affecting all four because they can't just roll all through the way that they've been the way that they've been doing in the past. And I believe our columnist Ed grain is GonNa write about that today talked to pastas about that and Paul Stephania talked about the Best S. teams. I've played on. I played less because all four lines were good all right now. You're not playing that third line much. You're trying to limit that author lines at least five on five time as much as possible and that probably changes when tuck comes back but also put it all on the third line just because because that's clearly the goat right now because I mean all the lines aren't playing well they're getting out scored five on five. which seems pretty crazy for a team with the top? Six talent that this one has right and I and to some extent. I mean the third lions largely defensive line like to in some regard. I don't know how fair it is. The judge them on offense of stuff. I mean yeah you is like production out of them but you know by Cody Eakins Defensive Center you know I mean let's let's call it like it is like we're going to talk about his scoring and things like that will you know. Let's look at his defensive production which isn't very good if you look at numbers numbers and things like I'm not going to sit here and defend them but you know to some extent it's still goes back to identity and what are you trying to get out of you know that line and and how does that kind kind of fit into the you know the makeup of the whole team and I think that's part of their probably just figured all that out and like I said I think it's affecting getting kind of the ability roll through all four of them get some flow get some momentum it just you know any time they go and then something happens take a penalty. You know they get out of whack in just then the third line comes out and over the fourth line comes out and cam break the puck out of its own zone you know. And then they pinned back doc and then it looks like they're sitting back on their heels and then they talk about it after the game because they've blown a lead hundred kind of going on with this team right now. Dr. Glenn even study yesterday's as like we are not getting scoring chances like we used to come in every four or five shifts like. We're not just rolling line after line and pinning them in the offensive. His own and wearing teams down is just not how it's going for them right now. No lot of the kind of advanced physical numbers like five on five would tell you that some of that stuff's going to even out at some point but there's also the points made that If you take penalties like you're taking penalties it's not gonNA even out because you're not going to be five on five as much as you want or when you are five on five. You'RE GONNA have jumbled blinds because you're you know putting that Marcia so patty glass trio out there which actually has been relatively effective point being. But you're not getting the lines you want. You're not rolling on the way you want when you're constantly getting out of the penalty boxer adjusting in different ways to the game. I I think that's probably the one consistent criticism that they deserve is the penalties this year because I was something the first two years that they were among the least east penalized teams in the League and this year. It's whether it's because they're half step behind and they have to use their stick charter cover and they're getting trips trips and holds and all these stick infraction you know type penalties and things or it's you know if you WANNA call him back 'cause 'cause I know it Jar Gland probably wouldn't say super publicly. But you know I mean. He said he's not necessarily happy with a few of the calls. You know hasn't agreed with every call so I mean maybe there's an element of that. Were a couple of gone against them by. That's the one consistent issue I would say for a team. That's supposed to be good. You just keep leading teams. Hang around because you're taking penalties because you're giving them two minutes on the power play and then they have the momentum after that and it's it's just been too hard to recover from for for the nights. Yeah I would say that and I mean the turnovers I in plain and simple. They've made way too many passes this year that it should not be made and I think it goes back to patch right. He's point where this is. You know a really talented team. But it's not the twenty one thousand nine hundred and Tampa Bay lightning where they can fling the puck all around the ice and they can shoot from wherever and have it go in. I mean this is a team that I mean what they say they have to. I think grind teams down on more than not on the four check. You know they can't always just play Blue Line of Blue Line knock. Even though there's some other lines are really good like the first signs really good at it but the I also really good pitting you back and cycling in the offensive zone and so that's what I got really frustrated after the Washington game we got asked asked about that and he was probably pulling what remains of his hair out because they keep turning the puck over in ways that a veteran team because this is one of the oldest team the National Hockey League like these guys have been around the block. I mean they should know better in terms of when a coach tells you. Hey make simpler passes. Don't turn it over or or hey. We can't take so many penalties stop reaching start. Moving your feet. They should be able to listen or at the very least you know from what we've heard about the locker room be able to look look inward and say like hey guys. This isn't acceptable. We gotTA clean it up. Maybe we see that response tonight. But we'll see I mean it's an interesting stretch coming up. It's you know five of the six yes at home. There's a good handful of teams that are I. Guess you know out of playoff spots are are things like that. If you're going to go on a run if you're GONNA make some hey if you're you're GONNA go on to win streak because I don't think they won more than two games in a row this year and I think the current three game losing streak is the longest of the season. So I mean it's it's been so up in like if you're GonNa get going and get on a run. The seems like a good time to do it. Because then you got a tough trip. You Know Nashville Dallas coming up you know Arizona kind of at the end of the month so if they're gonNA get going here and and that that Thanksgiving you know being in the playoff spot thanksgiving kind of magic magic marker that we've always talked about it's it's you know I don't know what the Star but but it's clearly like dots If you're GONNA hit the race like the quarter pole you need to be in a playoff spot at that point. So if they're going to get on a run here with the UH the next handful of games here at home. This would be a good time to do it. No absolutely and you know as much as we've talked about You know the nights problems or what. They need to clean gene up. They are still just two points out of a playoff spot in the Pacific actually there in the second wildcard spot right now because they have the tiebreaker. With the Winnipeg jets. I believe right now. So they are in the playoff spots. But there's still a lot of things to clean up Dave and I will keep you posted on all the goings on with the Golden Knights over the next week and into the future. We'll hit you up every Wednesday with a podcast. Remember to find us on Itunes stitcher wherever you get your podcast spotify like review. Tell us we're terrible. We'll still take it. And of course follow all our coverage at review journal Dot Com once again want to remind you the Golden Age podcast is presented by. Sdn Sports Mogul. Thanks so much for listening everyone. He's Shane we'll catch you again real soon.

Washington Detroit National Hockey League Golden Knights Blanche. mcnabb Columbus David Shane Dave Cody cody Alex Tuck spotify Theodore Theodore mcnabb Chicago Toronto Cody Glass John Merrill Red Wings Brayden mcnabb McNab Dr. Glenn
Preki explains how he won an MVP at age 40 + Miguel Ibarra names his Minnesota United Mount Rushmore

ExtraTime

1:24:09 hr | 1 year ago

Preki explains how he won an MVP at age 40 + Miguel Ibarra names his Minnesota United Mount Rushmore

"You're listening to entrance is driven by continental. You feel enough for that matter. I feel a lot better Bob. Extra telling me see exactly how I find out what's going on in the MLS. Maybe this podcast is influenced me a little bit as well cut loss. Everybody up here. Every single day goes into the office into the laboratory to try to cook up some great stuff for you guys here from Brooklyn New York. You are listening to extra time driven by continental from bed. Stuy I'm Andrew Abby with my partners in Soccer David Gas Mattdoyle Kaelin car. It is Thursday April thirtieth if you needed that reminder which I so often do this is really the only regular thing that's on my calendar right so every couple of days. Three or four. I figure out what date it is day of the week. It is and I'm happy to see your smiling faces. Are Things Blurring together for you Andrew? It's at how much of that is a function of quarantine self-isolation. How much of that is a function of having a toddler who's just dominating your life all of the above? I use this phrase with Dave recently. It's all just a brown out for me right now. It's not quite black. That remember some things but there are other things that I don't remember or don't stick in my brain so You know honestly. Mount Rushmore arguments are one of the few things that are actually sticking right. Now that I am s Trivia on Xtra I'm GONNA say mid that's I know I'm halfway where I'm Tasha collection will text me and be like Yo I I need you tonight. Are you ready to run? Come out of my basement cave and I'm like I know there pm Wednesday night. We had Sasha question. Charlie Dave do it together. They did really well but I had one question in there. I feel like the comment. Section did really well for them anyway. I don't think we being Kaylin. I think we be answered. One question. Last week I was comments saucer was better than either of them were last week but one. I created just four Kaelin and then I last week about the Dynamo was too easy. Took it away and you didn't even get it right yesterday for the Common Section You. I spent four and a half months that year with concussions. Jailing kearns absolve Cherry. Pick the worst season. I mean. That was two thousand and one. Who WOULD IT? Not Jeff Cameron love the guy but he led the Dynamo in scoring in two thousand eleven. That was bizarre season when I went back after. Dave wrote that question like researching it as a two thousand eleven dynamo. I remember them being good. They were just behind Sporting Kansas City in the east. Which were two points? If you WANNA forty one but five goals is leading goalscorer. That was a great question. Also Andres question about who's played four both Portland and Seattle as assisted Terry on Regal was brilliant Stephen Keel in the comments section. Given the old shrug and then the answer being Stephen Keel. I was cackling my wife. Who are you laughing? This is dining and pick that up. That's Brilliant Hundred Jack. Because Sasha I get Kamara and anytime I go to one hundred was like in my comment. The last dance but for the Colorado rapids reser deserve team. Only this is actually the best part about quarantine is that. Kaelin is slowly breaking down and releasing his twitter draft Rotary Kaelin's twitter address is the hottest place on planet Earth Hotter than the center of a volcano. Win this week out so you wouldn't. Instagram live on Wednesday night. You get the real unfiltered truth. Used to be Kaelin twitter drafts today. Doyle's twitter tomorrow. But that's changing just studios time with just two. Yeah you're the you're the you're the devil on the shoulder ninety seven. Pm Eastern every single Wednesday extra time Trivia Nights. So get yourself a drink. Come hang out. We have ten questions basically. It's two folks that are trying to compete against people that wrote the question so like you said. David was a Sasha and Charlie and then you and honors not wrote the questions from every angle. It's fun like it is just. It's just fun. It's like forty minutes where I don't think about anything. What's going on in front of me in that Super Valuable? And whatever tactile. You're drinking surprise Charlie. He didn't bust out. I text him afterwards. I was like hey man. Well played Bust out like a nice bottle of wine tonight. You deserve it. I'm surprised they didn't do that. Charlie had such nice you know. I think he was almost embarrassed. Time line choice was just so much better than everybody else said he was. They were wearing the elway Olympics kit. So he's or t shirt that day saw. Charlie said he was going to go back to an eight into the wine. So you know. I thought you were going to spill a red wine on the way you know. Pairing the T shirt with the question that I would say the Charlie by the way I I take this class once a week on zoom and this guy a lot of times people invite me into their wine cellars and the first thing. I say is Bro. You ever wine cellar. You're doing pretty well in life. So that's what you've gotta give for. Charlie I don't do it here when you're in a wine class that you're doing pretty well. That's that's the thing that's ever been set on. Things have earning bridges left and right. And it's Larry Extra Time Line Club that's next on Wednesday nights where we're GONNA WE'RE GONNA true. That's where we're going to have on the show this week do we promote somebody from on? Trivia? Do we promote somebody from the comments. Yes who comes up? We had been in the comments when he fell harbor. Dax McCarty was in there. I feel like we've got a slow Benny's role a little bit because like with Benny Salad. I like the podcast. And he's all over the place. Now he's retired. He's coming up too fast. Needs to earn it so many. Yeah I don't feel like there's a little budding rivalry with we and Bennies at least in the comments last night. I here's the problem. I don't like all the hard ones they were giving away like. Doyle's comment section giving away Bronco immediately on eleven World Cup winners texting him like shut your mouth. Mo-do's doing the same thing. I'm texting him on my own. Most showed up thirty two minutes into thank. You guys suck at this point. Maybe Mo- maybe we'll make that decision will join us on Wednesday nights wanted Jamie and saucer are the two best so far like they are getting everything. So I'm a little worried Jamie 'cause I don't know what you're going to stump him on. We're going to have to dig deep for that one so check it out Wednesday nights some other stuff to talk about before we get to drum roll. Please Preki to talk Sporting Kansas City. History we're doing the final to Mount Rushmore today. That is Sporting Kansas city slash the Kansas City Wizards. You can't take that wizards history away. Plus we're also doing minnesota united last but not least with Miguel Ibarra who's got just about the best insight that you can have from a player perspective on Minnesota both Ms Mls As we we are keeping MLS. But I do want some old school stories from him and then we got some good stuff in the mail bag including ICP which stands for insane centre-back pairing with John. Arnold and I were texting about and I think it would be hilarious to ask you guys start thinking on that we also have centreback. We also have some gold in the mail bag for Mr Kaelin car. Perfect I'm nervous now. Friday unless classics remix is back. There is going to be twenty thirteen. San Jose Ellen. Beyond Gordon Game we have him and Sean Franklin plus. It's Charlie in myself to do this when that's where Gordo's Scores the late goals which he always does and rips his shirt off at Stanford Stadium. Wednesday was a good remix with Seattle Dallas from the playoffs. Suzanna Jillian Ron. That one on this week by the way M las unites to discover new. So if you're discover new things good for you. I'm trying to cook two new recipes a week. It's going all right. So far we got some flat. Breads coming up tonight. So let's get ready to. Anyone has good Argentine recipes. I'm going big Argentina. I mentioned on. I've got my my recipe list. Now doing homemade empanadas. Chimi Chara Sauce. And like this sort of Caccia. That's like an Argentine thing with a bunch of onions which I love I made. I made her Reza for the first time. I'm pretty happy with the way it turned out to add more garlic. Click bar and a boiled egg for breakfast. Took voice next week. We're finishing up Mount Rushmore. And then it's an extra times greatest team of all time we're GONNA put together the bracket get the seating going. And then we're going to have a panelist a panel of voters plus the vote from you as well you account for twenty five percent or at least. That's the plan right now and then we'll have like ten people are so voting including all of us and then trying to recruit some folks from outside unless soccer dot com in extra time next week dearly. Beloved Mount Rushmore Chiefs USA Tampa Bay mutiny Miami Fusion. So if there's any old school fans of those clubs listen. Let us know what you think for. One two zero six ZERO EMMA. Last extra-time Soccer DOT com. We're almost done and let's get the Sporting Kansas City right now. We'll start with From Peculiar Missouri. Who already did all the work for us. Kinda have some beefs here. He says guys. I hope you're all doing well. Stan healthy insane. He's eleven these mount rushmore episodes. Because it's so fun looking up old players. Listen to debates about who should and shouldn't be on. He's a sporting fan. Obviously here's what he's got his coach. Peter vermes that's a slam dunk. We can get behind that one. I think that one's I don't think it's a obvious obvious one. Because you've got some other guys in the past that one trophies including MLS Cup including our soccer grandpa if you think back on that one. He's got three open cup championships. I think this is the golden era Is going to be there for a long time. His number one is Preki. Two-time LEAGUE MVP two time. Golden Boot Almost Cup champion with Kansas City. Plus an Open Cup in a bunch of best elevens. He's got map beasley at number two the captain. He says hometown kid one club man. We assume long term. I don't think that will change. Must Come Champ three notebook. I'm just saying he's he's pushed some other folks out. I don't think a lab in but Defender of the year best eleven all start Cetera. He's Got Grams Uzi. Three basically the same resume as Beasley Best Elevens. All Stars one club man. Mls Cup US Open Cups then he has Jimmy Nielsen Ford so this is very very sporting KC heavy. It does not have the Tony Meola of the world. That doesn't have the Jimmy Conrad's of the world who I think. Probably if I was GONNA Pick Jimmy. I think I would put that Jimmy in over Jimmy Nielsen But he doesn't even mention. He did throughout some honorable. Mentions two red card. Roger Roger Espinoza and carries magnin. I think those guys are in the conversation. I don't think there. What do you guys think anybody missing? That's obvious other than Jimmy. Conrad among that list to would be Peter Vermes and we are now two players because we mentioned Peter as a coach who would be in. That conversation can also throw out As well Tony Meola. I mean his performance Cup that year in two thousand. I mean that's as good as it gets for a goalkeeper in this league. Nielsen had a great year as well. They both had really good defense in front of him. But Tony Meola minimalist COP. I mean he basically like stood on his head in one again telling me all of that entire year. He's the only goalkeeper in history to win regular season. Mvp and then he followed it up with the single best performance by any player in MLS Cup. History it's Tony L. in two thousand for that KC team against the fire. He won them. Mls Cup Yellow. Wasn't them the supporter shoe because he was like? They won fifteen games one nil. So Tony's got a great argument but he also didn't have his long career in Kansas City. So it's I almost metro star obvious reasons but more as a metrostars than I do you know Kansas City. Jimmy Conrad South One. Four Best Elevens. In five years including a defender of the year he was also in a. Lotta ways their best attacker. That team once practice retired. They only scored on set pieces and he was like he was a lot to handle in the box. Be I think he had five or six goals one year. Four five another at the start of this run definitely the most consistently good defender in mls at that period which was right at the start of the Chad March. Later than two thousand eight Chad. I think the sort of surpassed Jimmy but I I. I find it very difficult to do. A sporting KC or Kansas City Mount Rushmore and leave. Jimmy Conrad off because that team would have been twenty five points a year for five straight years if Jimmy team anyone they open cut to during that Newman. Yeah four and they lost they lost it would have the double d your DC beat him in in the final. Yeah Handball so account. That's the tough to me Jimmy. Nielsen comes off and I know that he has a special place in in Kansas City fans hearts I think he's more of a cult hero. I think that he would be on the rushmore. In Jimmy's relationship with the fans was just as cult hero. Ask I think you're not more in his as sort of continued to last last last. It didn't end. Maybe the way he would have wanted to have an end in Kansas City but his contributions you just can't question are we locked in Preki Beasley and Jimmy. Conrad I think right. I think we can lock I. I think I think Beazley's lock but then that makes it hard with Zeus see does explore having. I think one is local to. He's a better player. Yan centreback some more important position zoo see that gave a deep deal to and then had to move his position not that he's bad as a right back but they had to move him because he wasn't good enough to play in good enough. It's that they got Benny. Benny was better at that role. That is this is. This was a good player. I agree with you the better the so I would. I would almost argue Roger ahead of Graham except Roger was gone in two thousand thirteen when they won. Mls Cup Graham was yeah. I think Roger is a honorable mention and he. He's he's got to be in the conversation just like carries of Agnan is in this conversation because his contributions were big. Not as I mean. They're just they're just not into the four. I'm with Beezer being there then that makes it three on top perky two time. Mvp come on Yellen was cut. He's got to either and then Beasley Endless Cup hometown. I think his case is pretty solid in all those ways. You WanNa have your boy looking down you and then Jimmy Conrad. I'm done with that one too. So then what we have is the options ended. Davy are no was a huge part of this team for a long time. It was kind of an underdog story. But it's got to be another sporting KC era guy to me. It's either grant or Roger for that final spot Interesting but isn't why you go in different direction. David so I asked Jonathan Kaplan who was longtime SKC media Com's guy and he had Peter vermes pretty in pretty hot As a player and then he said like obviously he's the coach but even as a player for what he won when he was there. And you go back to Tony Meola but Peter Vermes a part of that as well right of the best defense and all the things they were able to do so he had TV in there. I mentioned carries. Vaginal gets gets mentioned. Isn't GonNa win it. The thing for Davey is all of the things. He had were longevity and Beasley surpass. Most of them so it makes it hard to say. Oh most most appearances most minutes all of this but Beasley as better player as surpassed all that. So I wouldn't be. I wouldn't be against putting in as four but I don't know no way. Stop it with that. Peavy played one full season as a sweeper and he was great but then he played half the next season season after that he played ten games and retired peeping had one awesome season but he belongs nowhere near this discussion as a player. Okay so then it should be Tony. No like we. We're going to to me. It's Zeus or Espinoza. Both players have been at or near the top of the League in their position for almost an entire decade both are at or over three hundred career. Appearances both. Have One more with this club. Even the Roger. Wasn't there for me COP. I think the fourth spot has to come down to one of those two guys take Graham. And if it's between those two I think Roger has fallen a little bit below the radar kind of the way we put in Ricardo Clark as thick for Houston Dynamo. Advice played a massive role for that club. I think the fact that he left and he had all that success a wiggins had a great career. They both played in World Cups as well. I think with when you look at What grams been able to do the longevity there? I think the shift in positions actually speaks speaks well for his longevity in the way he's been able to adapt his game into that system and then I think you'd look even when you start looking at the numbers like he's I think he's a seven time all star that was on the Trivia last night doing a little research beforehand and yeah I just think I think he I would go with Graham if it would between those two because I think when I look at the middle of the pitch or sporting there's been other players whether it's Benny or other guys that have had big roles can carries magnum that have kind of defined. Maybe these different arts of central art of their system. But when I think of the right side of that entire system for the Latte for this new Sporting Kansas City era whether as a winger to begin with or on the back. He's you know I I I would definitely put put him as really defining that side so the pitch so i. I think that's the way I'm leaning neck. You Ever GonNa Love Rodriguez my favorite player in history to be honest with you. I have always liked him and I think it comes from where I was when he came into the League and how I was able to follow his career and what he represented at least to me but not being there for two thousand thirteen whether it was his choice or not And it was his choice to go wigand to pursue that neon incredible time there but I think you have to go grandma in that sense and gives you two from both eras to me. It's not Peterson play enough. Like his impact was huge but his impacts better celebrated as a coach and as an executive Because what he's done in making this new era but the fact that Buechler in grammar on there that's a credit Peterman says. Well you know those guys. Yes a trend music inseparable. It'd be strained. It's it's like one grams actually. Do feel like Rogers in that group as well as what people need to appreciate about this past decade for Sporting Kansas City. They built the core of this team through the MLS super draft. That's never going to happen again. Getting Be Slurs Uzi at Espinosa. Like that's insane rewind rewind it too because you had bunbury that came in as well. Cj sapone that was part of that group dumped wire was a draft by Burmese in that same little era. I mean there are more as well that came in and play roles that were like you know either bit-part players or contributed but yeah they're they're hits in the draft early in the Peter Vermes incredible technical director slash. Gm such coach era. Were absolutely spot on. Go AHEAD DAVID. Ask Question. How much more success with Tim? Melia need to get into this conversation. I don't know how he can get over. I don't know how he would get over the hump of of meal. Because Mueller was there for. He wanted him bless. Mvp is a goalkeeper. He went to to MLS Cup finals. They lost the second one. He was there for five years. I know one hundred twenty. Five Games isn't like it's not like two fifty but for what he was able to accomplish. I think it would be really hard for Tim meals. You get over that Hump. But maybe that's just like a a gut thing for a minor part or maybe. I'm overvaluing the early days but it's just crazy to me that MLS MVP would be a goalkeeper and the Tony Meola was able to do that and then basically win them less come to and that's a formative formative moment in club history that that can never go away. I'm just not sure we'll be able to match that despite hug good. He's been for the last four or five years. I mean if they if he wins a Milan goalkeeper of the year and they went to shield or shield cup. Donal or something like that. Then I think that I think it's like open shut for Melia because longevity matters and Tony was great in the two seasons. He was healthy for for Sporting Kansas City. But he was two to five seasons that he was he was able to go out there and play more than fifteen games. It's tough It's A. It's a mount rushmore season. Right it is the best season any goalkeeper has ever had in this league. Tony Meola two thousand. That should always be celebrated but if you look at the balance of his Kansas City career compared to Melia but like mealy has been arguably the best keeper in the league since two thousand fifteen. That's a good long run One little note on Ramsey Beasley. The people may have forgotten their rookie year. I'm like ninety nine percent sure beezer lived at home and I'm pretty sure Graham lived in the Beezer family basement so those guys have been Jaylen yes right. The wood-paneled basement to hang out. I got now as a beautiful soft slate walls behind you framed. Artwork is a new vibe for you to and should we talk the reason we get done with that we can Kind of mull over and land on the fourth feels. He's got the lead but nobody has done what practice has done to legends. Mvp's in his career. The man retired at like forty three years old. I don't think he started playing it unless he was thirty. Three and absolute legend so happy to have him on the show proxy welcomed extra time. Thanks for having me guys. Let's let's just reminisce man because I've always been fascinated by you and your career. I'm a big indoor soccer fan from back in the day and I don't remember specifically watching you but I remember all the wings players but I want to go back to nineteen eighty five. Tell me about the year. Nineteen eighty five in your life. I just came back from in In January I was not me for that months. I got back into lame training with the rest of us. Going to Since I've been gone for thirteen months Obviously we had time to readjust the game in physically old components wherever on away To be loan debt today the Division liver south of the valve a south of Serbia. Actually now it's Montenegro and In the meantime planing nine this in the tournament. I don't play indoor Do play or the time but I got invited into determined by local friends in because he was a summertime was so I said okay. I you know I'd love to play anything. Any become game. Whatever whatever's of replay in advance to the semifinals aimed in meantime coach from a Fleiss the bulbs in We go to all the arrangements. Any tells me that I fly next warning sign the contract but the next night we will play him in a semi-final. I mean it was my friends in parts of the team. Big Parts of the group so I was also tended to us Obviously young boy Almaeda my name yet a What makes a can afternoon flight tomorrow? planning this sermon in Kiel. Luckily let me stay in the game in the after the game. I'm still down on on on the pitch on the pitches. The same lake Hockey cookie or indoor that we played here ended up by the Guy Yellen. I loved it. Was Mike Sonko which you might not lame you might not not I'm He's a big. It was beginning the laugh of Baltimore blast than he said. Well there's a coach from us. You love to talk to you. I was I was looking. It was feeling few feet above. Who is start trying to sell me in inside Mr who? I'm thinking but I play the game because I was a semi-final so I have to go into final game and mice. Whatever I gotTA play. I'll be after the game if you're so I I don't even forgot about that and then I'm coming out the locker room and that is a guy standing would guy. It makes a guide next day when all shot the guy who approach either then. He said this guy in the guy in plate. Us So looking at them. I'm looking at suspiciously. Because it might goes as viciously. Who's trying to give you some false information or make your make fun of you. So like raiders up and then this guy opened them out in English end the KINDA loosen. Meow went straight to the hotel. It they want the I was there with my best friend eight. That's that's it. I signed the contract. Six o'clock in the morning. My father was on the way The Montenegro received without my second because Suitcase out of money through the air force and things that might air coils My mother about the eighth declawed because my flag was sixteen. And I would suppose so. Seven can morning waiting for me and no sign of me so musical and I'm sleeping. I walked in. Allison I thought my mom's five thirty six hundred j just if the DOT my father if that calls come home because I signed him to us. My mom was she was in. Shock is just go to sleep now so I go to sleep like I was okay. I would just leave white father go. I follow Sorley My father Call IN A. He has to tell mom. Montel said the president goes to the president's CELAC. Unfortunately he didn't put enough money that they will see signed. Someone else came home. So that's how we started the Van. Montlake that I'm eating. Us In that the gentleman name was Bob McNab. He was a guy who signed me on spots in monthly. The I was in in Seattle They sped up my paperwork process in doubles as easy at the visa the day. I got hitting July in put in the school I had to go to school. English school bobbing thrown out like four five times. I add absolutely zero patients the Class that meeting teacher for five hours. You've literally five hours myself. Malachi from Serbia in the the teacher in I'll be laughing so hard by friendless Throw me out. Ecuador H for. Throw me out. I mean downtown Seattle in walking around on having having a great time. It's summertime before senior class. And that's how the Tacoma Stars started men. I always wanted that storage. And that's incredible your dad. He had to be like Dang I gotta go tell the clump president with this one. It was the situation Listener Botox. He was down there on the spot I was he had to deal with it. So sorry go ahead. Would you make the indoor game? 'cause you weren't an indoor player as you said now this is your career you sign the contract. You come to new country. What did you make of it? Did you feel like it was playing the sport? You love still honestly mixed feelings. I love playing in love competing evidence that was but still wasn't wasn't the real game. Imagine even even I benefited some things and I'm sure a lot of the players. If they can play a game they could benefit in in some things but he's so far away. Different from the real game is this. There's no combat assignment in the thing is honestly in regime's been before warden regimes what? I trained at how we train. How much drain I? I'd I'd also like this was like a fun time. Like he was like it wasn't real real real game saw not to put down because obviously I had fun and I enjoyed moments. Join US a plane. That's for sure because we all play but would you rather play down drugs? Play a game. That is no question why reason I came here is because it dot time. That was before the Bosma rule so in Serbia. You'd have to be twenty eight before you can go outside and make really big living In Serbia will pay a time. Where the money Only way you can take your family in new ways to get out in the find better paternity when that thing. That thing was presented to me at the moment I jumped jumped on it because I would have to wait another six seven years to get out and there's no guarantees. What happened next six seven years in active down to the theme? They could've got injured with a broken leg. Who knows will happen so I am happy to the fact that was eleven years when you signed with Tacoma Stars before. Mls would even begin so you had a lot of time before we even got to the creation of this league and before we get to Kansas City Wizards and maybe even the fusion. I'm curious about the loans that you made in the moves you made while in indoor because we don't think about the indoor game is one that might send you on to Everton or onto portsmouth or have the indoor game pay one hundred thousand dollars to get you back it. What was it like to go on loan to England and play the game that you did love version of it? During those times I go along on the long now absolutely free paid. They actually sime united way from Saint. Louis the thing is I before I went to England. We were gone. We went to Switzerland Tournament. Indoor Tournament and We played enough huge huge summer widow. Many many European clubs I think was fifteen sixteen Clubs Club Jilin Will Disley clubs hall Bad teams from Holland than and I got invited. Actually the grass whole Burson. Trump's assistant tried to buy a Siamese spot and Milan Monday. Children will not sound me. Time said another year and then than now let you go in den in a in a same size same tournament. I got got offer to come in. Try Out for. Espn homing. Bobby Robson. So I said okay. I'M GONNA go back to Saint Louis play the rest of the season. The bomb season's over I mean. Pse SO I look straight up. Everything was organized with pse They bring me over. The hotel. Right away was accepted while after of the day's of options says while I assign you a said he said well. We need to meet your scores from field in said the day. Put a Milan mandarich In in touch with the president plugs Ma At that time in the P. Floor Doma wife The you know I was already in Europe. Start getting rid of stuff closed the front because I was there. Another seven days He saved the team. I was guest on a driving a ride in the first place. The Games a pleasure. Romani Romario bigtime players Brooklyn Aaron Kumaon. So they they Jimmy Buddy. While I was I was I was Trillion very very very comfortable. I really wanted to stay there but who knows what happened behind closed doors. I Guess Milan in an clubbed in On price was I never got to the bottom of the day who does never explained to me. That's how event and then Bob McNab always stayed in dodge Disguise who signed me Florida? Komo's the arts said to me why why don't chew you'll concerts Swat. Why don't we I can? I can take you to two places in England that can pick you to. Everton can take you to have to go to try outs. I'm not a problem I I'm willing to try. I don't have another frayed so I would add now. Both both clubs invited me for preseason Try I was like a in every club. I was like Truly for five days in the mall. I exactly member It was Just a basically trainings Five slide because they middle's of towards the end of the season and of course the put me in a five aside. That time is no no no way. I'm dominating the session. They see something this so they invite me sell K. Go home and when we start the season you you welcome to the Preseason it was stuck Nemann inevitable either. Choose which one so middle a lot of thinking. Does Bob some agents guide named Graham Smith? I'm no sure if you guys know first-wave Agent. He's been here in this country. Florida for many years. These the guy who actually brought me the sack republic he was UH advisedly Obligation technical director however you WANNA call and so they commencement. Everton the club for me so I wanted a child. I played that a five or six. Preseason games that many a the the they offer me a contract. The thing is the between the The Times I went on a tryout. In the The Times I went to bre- season in the intensity of training ahead. It was it was crazy. I had to find a way to get my legs in my lungs back for outdoor game in was not so easy in honestly these days. I'm not so sure. How di DI wins? Those PEOPLE NOT CONVINCED. Us people asked him how I found. I found a way with that. Many years way from the game from outdoors is it was seven years found a way to to get myself in decent shape for the game obviously still not a not not the greatest shape. I wanted to me took me a year and a half maybe even to get back to the though real the what I can do on out the pitch because he just the the the level intensity The temple amount of ground that you have to cover each different Taylor so let's talk about immolate since Kansas City and I wanna start you hear the Preki Chop it's famous. It's effective it's devastating. Where did it come from? How long have you been doing it? And why couldn't defend it all? I honestly never brought his my life that game since I was a kid Nacho Once I could always young kid I could always strike the ball. I was always good striker of the ball and I can shoot from distance and I'm thinking about a lot of times like when I shoot them. Defenders not sleep through this back so he's like not Sali's like in the moment our view bill. You spread your leg. Of course you balanced such as being back to the other side. A lot of people would never never gave me a credit in the beginning especially because they didn't I I can just finish rifled just as well in the when you can go to is of course the move is GonNa come to work either the that across the morning in a shoot. The ball has the ball I remember my first game to On Raw oh he was on. Tv and tight keough. It was the it was. He was killing me one fourth. He was on this. Since I know it from the You must have forgotten. How many goes right foot tall? Hey you go the other way. It is how it is but people talk a lot about that is i. Don't baseball game on the baseball game. I I always thought that was a way. Got A passive named. Yeah so the two time. Mvp nobody's ever done that. Tell me how tell me how aged thirty three and I looked it up. You've you've played at least seven hundred professional games and I got to imagine. It's a lot more than that. Tell me how you were able to do what you did at that age because in this game so many people when they hit thirty or saying they're on the downward spiral well did the caisson. I loved the game. A loved sports in general A big basketball fan play basketball. Fifteen have to decide which way I wanna go so off season there was never off-season for me. It was maybe they off or two days off but never the off season because of that age the Morio off. It's harder to get back so you have to maintain your your fitness level show the moment the MLS season would be over. I WOULD BE JIM plane. Five fives would Up decent players. Some glasses what position I was playing down on a block up. Data you Dr You're dishing drive. Oh Yeah Oh yeah and I should. I should But I is a similar game. The football imagination. You have to see the past. The four. Our is always loved basketball. Show in Hoesli kept my legs in shape different shape so I'll come back in racism Over loose sand ready. I was never on the eighty percent. That's what kept me going. And then later at age thirty seven. I started doing yoga. He was a one day. I came home and I set the my wife. It will start at the end of The end of the season my symptom or wife's I think I'm done from the end of this year. I said I don't enjoy anymore. Said why is because I go one day? I strain the full extent and then I needed two or three days to recover I. I'm not as flexible stiff. She said to me what she said she said. Why don't you try your rising? What is that idea? What Yoga that was. That was two thousand to thousand now. That was before ninety nine. I believe something like that. Ninety nine in the same flexibility. Go try it off. Season is a roadside. Since it okay. I'll give it shots so I go the first session in honestly. That was me fifteen fifteen latest older ladies younger. Whatever I mean. They're putting the legs behind the head. I mean just like ridiculous and I'm next to them I'm shaky dripping sweat hours a bit religiously. I like this possible these ladies. I chained so you know I have this competitive mentality. I'M GONNA stick to this and the fact is I started doing three times a week. By the time the brief season started I started training with the guys twice a day. Never to catrine off. I felt great. I kept doing yoga until the end of my career. Dies the key even if I knew that when I was age of twenty. How much help you balanced is the ability flexibility when your body is is free and in terms of moving do you have no restrictions you. Could you feel? You can do anything because as you'll nause get older we get stiff when somebody vast you the ball a half a year to the side is hard for you to move now. All of a sudden boom lifting the leg makes the my shoulder things. Great as okay. This is This was a great suggestion wife and I. I'm thankful to these two. That lies in honestly. Fuck with the plate until fifty. If you started doing yoga twenty. You would've played till you're fifty plan to fifty but the tough injury I had on the end that was Into gladiatorial I thought he was for me to give it up for me to move in different direction. Still an incredible career man. I I've been doing yoga during this break. I'm doubling down on his body last man last question. We'll get you out of here. You put a lot of great. Mls teams we've been doing the we're GONNA do the greatest team of all time bracket you've got two thousand. Kansas City two thousand one fusion was a really good team he has went to. You had good years in cancer when you went back. What's the best team you've played for long? As the two thousand team was very successful. We were tough as a unit organized. A little bit more defensive than my liking If you ask them. Which team do I enjoy the most? It was Miami. Two thousand one because Raila Freedom offensive free on a wish. We had more disciplined. The time you'd be dead. I wish we had a couple of different things on the went away. Mogul going to Dr Enough And also a wish Some At time will be more discipline in In a committed more than the actual because we are really talented team in the end. It a shame that we didn't win here because I couldn't think Which didn't go all the way to the best team but punching me. We didn't get that we'll have to put that a two thousand one Miami team into our bracket we're doing at large bids therein. Thank you so much for the time man. It's been awesome just to pick some stories out from you. I could do this for our may have to come to Seattle and all this is over and have a coffee dual yoga talk about the old days. Should appreciate your time. Thanks so much. Thank you guys have a good day? Stay safe be safe. What a joy talking soccer with Preki. What alleged across the board whether it's indoor overseas or of course NMLS and with the US national team in incredible career for that guy. Still doing it as an assistant coach in our league with Seattle sounders. Let's settle the debate. Those guys who's the fourth if feel good about Graham is our. We're going to from the early days. The Wizards era in two from branded play and Beezer. Both played as wizards so. I guess they bridged eras but to really what we would call the sporting KC era. I think that makes the most sense in my mind. Yeah Bill with that. I also WANNA see Zeus. I want him the long hair on flowing locks. Somebody's going to have to really like get the Chisel out and get the depth just right on that and give the three D. EFFECT. The real question is one of his sporting KC teams make it as the best s Casey. Or sorry the. Best Kansas City soccer team. There you go all time there you go. Obviously we're talking with at this point. So is it twenty. Thirteen is probably it? Unless I mean the points per game in this era. That's the second third best I guess because two thousand eighteen in two thousand twelve fifty eight points their second in the east and they went onto win. Mls Cup or you could go. Two thousand in that team won the double they were supporters shield winners and MLS Cup winners. Mucus Mall Burger. I linked to go twenty thirteen just based as I like to think of it as my injury and floodgates for that so nice to see them finally over the Chat Barrett was still healthy at the time so now Kayla. That's a deep cut but is joint jaw go. Get-go read Chad Barrett's wikipedia page and no exactly the one thing about two thousand thirteen which is probably cheat in. This whole thing is like you can count kyw. Even though he wasn't there at the end 'cause he was there at some point. So then you look at the team. And it's probably the best depth because Roger left at year and Kyle that year but we don't really have a description of what specific lineup. You have to have as part of the team and to go to sort of what Kaelin said. All the less kaylynn center is the team. That's sort of revolutionized a lot of things major league soccer the high press away. They played one small mark and Oursel- had done some of this but for small market team to compete and be the class and they changed the environment in terms of where you can put a stadium and what fans feel like and all those things I think twenty thirteen. Mls Cup outside of every MLS COP L. A. Had hosted over the last seven years was probably a I like. This is what an environment can look like and all those things and the team on the field. I think lived up to all you got playoff dom dwyer because remember. He wasn't regular season. Dwyer at that point. He was only playoff dom dwyer and then fell. Harbor was a monster that year as well. It was really he. Domino's Orlando City Dom Dwyer at that point because twenty thirteen. He had gone on loan to Adrian. Heath with Orlando City and he led them in fifteen thirteen he. He led yourself pro in scoring with coming back to Kansas City. For a pretty significant stretch. He went back to Orlando if I remember right for the final and scored four goals in that. Uso Als Multiple Times that season. Also you'd have Ikea Par on the bench as you said was hurt. It's weird because like I wanNA say twenty thirteen but without Kawhi and without Roger there arguably a worse team in two thousand twelve except twenty twelve but didn't have dumb. Benny like they'd never never kinda got it. Kinda got thinking. I think that just leaves it open for two thousand two thousand team. They won the shield. They won the cup. They did the stuff that you have to do to be remembered as one of the all-time great so I think almost by default you look at the trophies and you say to thousands of team can I say that I think we should put this to vote I e fans because I think this is. I think this is one of the ones we've had. Yeah I think it is one of the closest my only thing with sporting KC fans From Peculiar Shot Man Love You. It was a great email from you but it was very sporting KC centric and I wonder if that difference in euros and the difference in fan bases is going to have people biased against two thousand. I'm just looking for the fairest. Vote here I'm just waiting really biased. Four two thousand which keeps him being over biased. I'm being a counterweight here. I'm a counterweight to history. All great dictators are the ones who why can't let an emergency go to waste so I'm recusing myself from this honestly this this conversation now like the individual accolades. I was like okay like I really like Graham Suzy. I'd really like Matt Beasley. I like all these guys congre. Of course once you start talking about this twenty thirteen games from my land is literally I? It's like two different worlds okay. Yeah Mount Rushmore Sporting Kansas City. This is fine and then and now. I'm like Kaelin nothing in being one of the greatest teams like they could beat us. We could not be like that. We own them in every big MAC and couldn't get over the top doing what I made. The Galaxy Owned L. AFC. That was the way we owned. Sporting Kansas City. They just couldn't be are then finally yet. Look they over the top. But I'm still dealing with this. My question would be if the Galaxy Played Casey in the two thousand thirteen. I'm lost do you think they would just have them both host and play in separate stadiums? They both got the chance to be at home. No come on obviously boy. I guess we can go vote. I don't I don't feel great about it. I mean I respect all right. We're this one is one of the ones we're gonNA take to vote so sporting KC fans. Maybe we'll work with the club to keep it on there. Maybe we can put on their twitter and we push it out and that way you don't have a bunch of random people like muddying the waters. I don't know we'll agree though that when they had kyw and C. J. on the wing. Unbelievable that was that that was insane to try and go up against those guys like their their their front line. In those days I think in eleven twelve was scary. Scary side dubs. Luckily core re research was in the central midfield. Pekar Roussell and Julius Cesar was there before that I mean a good team is really good team. We'll do the vote on this one in Senate out will let you know where that's going to be a stock Minnesota united now and there is nobody better to do that. With than Miguel Ibarra. He's with the Seattle sounders now but spent all those years in Minnesota winning championships and doing his thing in the early years of MLS. Let's welcome next time right now ago. How's it going man? How you good good Yeah Batmans great to have you man but in the different feels weird. I'M NOT GONNA lie to you looking at you here on the screen. Erected sounders proudly as you should We'll talk about Minnesota United History here in just a second with you but I catch us up on you man changing clubs this off season going to defending champs. I feel I feel good first of all. I had some sounders gear. 'cause I got a little a little bit of Guy. Eaten up by Brad events when he saw a picture of me wearing shorts when I was training. Actually this is for him in case he watches. Hey man you gotta go. With whatever's clean whatever's available like. It doesn't mean you know that's part of your past okay. We could still celebrate it and acknowledge the president as well. Tell us about the move. I mean it seemed like last year in Minnesota minutes. Not what you wanted to be But the team's success as good at as high as it has been in. Mls Why did you need a change? And what was the last year like Minnesota both for you but also within the team because he did so well thank you said last year. We didn't get the minute that I wanted to but overall was happy. I mean the team made playoffs. The team was playing really well and for me. It was just a kind of thing be be there for. Your team is keep pushing If the time comes in I gotta be ready. I gave my name called But overall I mean something that Minnesota had a dream to make play. Also it happened. We played the whole season So obviously the agent didn't want to change things personally. I think I was coming off my second year. Which was one of my best years in Emily's Was hoping to have a better year. Third Year obviously didn't get the minutes like being a by the end of the season when it was coming towards the end I thought Keep working hard. Be there for your teammates. Were in place now. In a try to guess farthest we can read after season ended a first first conversation. I had with my agent was what do you. What do you want to do what you want We both put a lot of pieces together. And we said maybe it's time for a change It would be good for me to to go somewhere else you've been you've been in Minnesota for six years. Maybe a change will be good for you saw. Obviously we came to push that that was that was the way the route to take. So you had been there so long when you are so closely connected with the fans there. You're on Social Media. Twitter instagram messing around with fans interacting with them. All you've been through a lot of the same experiences. What's it been like now that you've left with those fans? Have they reached out to you? Have you seen more messages? Are you still saying involved? Only definitely I always received messages from every time I post a picture on twitter anywhere. They all send me a message saying they missed me. They wish I was still there They always send me pictures of me in Christian at all at all time so I started trying to take as much as as I can with them. Tell us about what Minnesota the club. And then you're gone and that is what it is but Minnesota. The club means to you because this was the place where you really started your career. Established yourself made that incredible connection on the field and off with Chris Ramirez Batman and Superman. I mean it has to really be a special place for you. Minnesota definitely Minnesota for me. I think we'll always have a special a special place in my heart. I'm they gave me. They opened the doors for me. Right after Orleans drafted me. I went to give it a try there. They open new with welcome arms. They gave me the opportunity. So as as say is always GonNa be is always going to be home for me Actually I actually like Minnesota more than California now which I was ages. It just feels the agency was like home for me there. So That's how much you me. Some to be honest what feels like home to go. Walk us through how they welcomed you. You're coming in there. You're a California kid. You're trying to start your professional career and you're just looking for something and it just felt like the the connection between those fans it just. It's it's so powerful. I wonder where that came. From your opinion yeah in my opinion I think a they. They had no idea who I was. When we go bar was when I first got there when I signed the one that actually kept putting my name out there was a money walker which I played with in college with. He kept telling out money. Law Goes in bunch of players. You guys are GonNa love this kid. He never stops running. He's a little bit shy but he'll work he working won't stop working so E- kind of every time he would talk to a fan or something like that. He would tell them that Is Day One right after my first game Every every fan. Look that at that Message me right away instead. We're glad to have you with. Were expecting to have a player like you here And I just kept getting a a bunch of from them so ever since then I decided in. I've got to give back to the team. The fans they welcoming so much And we after that we just bonded really well. And then next thing you know when the final we didn't win the final in an ESL We took a lot to get there and we were. We were Lee owned so we didn't have an owner They have told us after the after the final match that you know there wasn't going to be a Minnesota team anymore so everybody was. Kinda down when you're like this. Is it for a bunch of list? What are we going to do next two hours later? You have Dr Bill. Come in and say we just bought the team so everybody's emotion just went back up. I would say in. Mls history for Minnesota. There's been some ups and downs but I think unarguably the high was yours and Christians epic Brel High Five when they announced. Us Superman Batman for sue signings. Emily's history and what you guys were gonNA mean what was the transition like many assault and MLS club. What was what have you seen change in the club? What say the same? Yeah I was actually in Mexico so but I will talk to Christian twenty four seven so he would tell me how everything was going. What was going to happen. right away when he knew that there were going. Melissa right away texted me and said I need you back as it has to be has to happen and I says I should. I don't know we have to see what happens. I mean I'm I'm alone right now. So this is my focus right now. And then a NFC Noah. They announced that they're Malysz. Dr Pill a doctor build Texas me a message. That said I want you to know you are a big part of this And you always will be this. Thank you Christian. A bunch of people that were part of it on many also takes his means. Does the same thing on so I mean it was right when I announced I feel like I was part of the team already. They made it feel that we saw on. I think that was something. The fans of really deserved a bunch of the players for working hard. And I'm you can just see when they fill out the stadium. They sing wonder why ages gave us at They give that extra energy for the team. When you think about the path of this club has been on and where you were and where you played games and and the facilities you had and the level that it was at two last year mean that has to be such a proud moment in your mind and building all this up and being part of building not do you feel like you've left left a legacy there and what do you think that legacy would be definitely. I think I did. I'm like you said at the beginning when I get got the facilities we had. It was just like a little locker room. We didn't have much our own training facility. We didn't own stadium. It was just small and now looking back at it up you. Just you can see the chains on union that they locker room. You get your own Space to train you gave you have your own stadium soccer specific stadium so at when I first got there was eight hundred fans now. They feel that the stadium So like Dinka Being there being there for the kids being there for the fans Trying to be positive at all conditions no matter what when they told us that we weren't GonNa have a team Fans kept saying. Thank you for everything you did. And I saw this they posited it might be an owner coming in on. Minnesota deserves to have a soccer team so I think in that part are the fence. I'm free Stansell You're always going to be a big big of player here. We don't always GonNa want you back no matter what So I think I left a good example for everybody there for you now stuck at home doing homework. Doubts as wonderwall on the playlist. Does it get jacked Kellyanne? Sometimes listen to Abilene. I got used to it. I got used to every single time. We were winning or something. You just gone the locker room. And they're playing it one hundred percent saw. I love that song. You were there when it started wasn't it? wasn't a Craig's yes. I was there a year after so they had Saturday year before. But when I got there we got our first win. I had no idea what cycle into the locker room. After you see Carl Craig is with the speaker in blasting one to one hundred in everybody singing and throwing water bottles enough. Though that we just went a championship was going on here so I was got caught off guard after that. It just became a tradition thing. You see the financing it as well after the game so when you got there. Did you know the lyrics? I did not not a big it. Probably not a guy if I I was like I was cut off by Walker said this theme song outside. I had no idea and then over during the during years when I was Kinda started another song. Incredible Culture for Minnesota whether it's the thunder or Minnesota united or all the different iterations. That have come there the Work Keeping Nafe that the club afloat by Buzz Lago since so many others and obviously not Dr. Bill has been incredible. Let's talk about Mount Rushmore. Just so you know the rules. It's only major league soccer so we're not including an ESL otherwise you'd have some huge names coming into this thing that really helped build things from the ground up in Minnesota To Me Buzz. Llagas has a place here somewhere. We've been doing observation decks. And that's for the in Adrian. He's the only code so he's got to be there but player wise. Who Do you think are the foremost important players in the club's history short history in major league soccer in your mind? Who are the big big names? Superman's they're on their fisher. God is on their fresher. Yeah I mean you can't have one and not the other right like we're GONNA do this. You know the Marvel League here we need to have all of our superheroes shoot. We're GONNA add more. I think a right now. I think you have to put in Darwin in there. What's the case for Darwin in your mind? Why would he either? I think when he before he got there. We weren't a great team. He got there and he we I think air he got everybody going Especially me I think. He was a big of push for me when he first got there council. What do you do So the first game he saw Minnesota play in Minnesota. He was in the stands. He watched right after the game. He came up to me. He said you're the best player out there. But you can be better He told me that he would always push me to be a better player Try to tell me what I need to do. Better what he thinks would make me a better player on. I think when he got there. That was the year when I had my goodyear Meaning just started connecting. Really well And I think that's what he was one of the reasons why I had the year that I did. We know Darwin a little bit on the field epic player. What's he like off the field once? He like outside of the training facility. He's he's a character he's always GonNa make you laugh. He's also competitor so right after practice. He grabbed me and he would want to be something. It doesn't matter what it was. It can be a card game can be whatever it was. He wanted to eat something. Ns well the other thing. I think is. Innovations were hilarious. I was always. I was always giving no mail room. So right after he scored. I mean after the Games are at practically would what was that. We have ever. No one knows what what you're doing. Listen Phil by think. Everybody knows now that he would always do whatever his kids would tell them. This celebration citing a big big story at a lot of people is well. What your kids kids rule the roost illegal. Darrow does fan. That's where they create the most creative stuff from kids. They're not limiting themselves. Whatever COMES TO MIND? That's what you're GonNa do that here. You go your my puppet. How much how much did he changed the club when he came in because we all knew how good of a player was whether it was from Santos whether it was from America whether C. C. L. Killing him less teams there when he walks into that locker room into your team out. Is it change who you are and what you think of as far as your ceiling your ability. I think nobody I knew how good he was. Christian Ramirez what could be was so there was a couple of players but we have some players that were on the team. Come up to us and say is he really that good and we say he's not that good so we go to the Game Toronto. He has those three the hatchet that were unbelievable in everybody comes out of that locker room after the game and says while these guys unbelievable and then we would also play soccer tin his end. This guy doesn't lose as opportunities he is one of the best ones that I've seen But yeah I think he changed. He changed the team. Each metality of the team saying we can we can do more. We can push to make playoffs so he would always push you wanted to win And then he was all about We saw that. He was all about his family as well at his. Family's the most important thing. Besides soccer on he puts his family. I saw once we lost them for a month or two. I think to an injury on that heat so as he had had back in in America. That could actually. I don't remember exactly what was the doctors. Were saying that if he kept playing a he got cut or something it could probably in his career. Everybody Kinda went down again but he would always be there and say listen. You guys can do. It doesn't matter what nobody's been the team so I think he bought that mentality in that leadership as well. Can I throw out who I think might be a good shot for the fourth and again this is. Mls only based on the success last year. It's going to be really difficult to choose between Ikea. Para Ozzy Alonzo both those guys coming in providing leadership in different ways Obviously the defender of the year Ozzy one of the best midfielders. This league has ever seen if you had to choose between those two guys for this final spot and your mind who would get that spot. That is tough talk. What all well I think I can Choose between your children. I think we put like was I mean. We obviously considered a lot of goals at the beginning of the seasons. I think once we got him he just changed that whole mentality and said we're not getting scored on. I mean he was a rock a rock for us back then on when we didn't have we didn't have them back there. We would struggle and you can tell the difference when he was out there When we did have a mother was it just on the field or is there something off the field that he changed his well because sometimes what happens on. The field is a direct reflection of the things that are off the field whether it'd be training or physical or mental as well it just felt like you guys approached the game in a different way as a unit last year than you had before and obviously the the goals are sort of in product of that but it felt like. I was came from a winning culture and maybe installed in the team. Yeah he definitely is you can tell he been elected as well. He wanted to win Yeah I think he was when he first came to the lack of he's been in the league for a long time so he knows he came in. He told US I've been in the League for a long time. I've been losing teams winning teams and I'm coming from a winning team now. I WANNA being damaged teddy here to Minnesota and not. I know with Minnesota in the past. You had considered a lows so my goal is to change. That also think ozzy was big for us. A mean he came in and he right away became a leading. Everybody wanted him to be captain from day. One said we he has to be our captain He's a raucous low. He's a leader out. Always messed with him and said you're too old. You're you'RE GONNA retire. You see me. I run I run A la. I'm I can still do. Might be is is still have about four more years in me and now it always just mess around after every game you can't you can't practice the next two days due to old so he wanted to kill me rafter Every time well we appreciate. Miguel you coming on here choosing Aiko par which means you'll get two footed by ozzy next time you play against Minnesota four Seattle to say you out there for Seattle doing your thing again whenever this is over. Miguel Ibarra is one of our favorites to bring on the show and I think we're all GONNA agree with his Mount Rushmore. So you did our job for us so we can all just may Mac and hang out. Miguel thanks man. Thank you Bradley. Mcgee Bara lay that out for skies pretty well. So you have Batman Superman me and Christian. Darwin Tarot an uncle par. He went with I over Ozzy which was fortuitous for us. Because Ozzy couldn't even beyond the Minnesota Mount Rushmore because he is on Seattle's yea or Nay. Do we agree with MC L. E. Bar? Are there any other names that we wanNA throw into this? Mix now now. I mean they're a guy like if at the end of the year we can revisit. Maybe like Roman Nair maybe young Greg. Who's maybe Michael by like? It's maybe I think it's those four Jamie Watson was on kick around this week and he told me that he thought because it was a he had. I you know the issues of going back to the. Us holidays men. He threw out a couple of names of guys that he thought could be on and he ended up going with mason toy eventually as somebody that he thinks could eventually make his way onto the list. I think it's a bit obviously premature at this point but I liked the list as is but I think as it probably a good note to look ahead with this club especially as you look as saying you know it is so new and mls out to just really feels like it's found its footing and is continuing to grow. Yeah that would be a good shot. Maybe Asami Dotson as well fan. I'd pick younger agoos for his futures and he said please do it so I can rip you on twitter for the waiting for regular defense have been in our mentions for like the entirety of the Mount Rushmore series. Just waiting for us to look like idiots and do their club so we're libra bar is an idiot Minnesota fans. Kurt can they find us or do they go to? Mls DOT COM. Because we're not available there. I don't believe a lot of new houses purchases. They're up in the twin cities. The team is pretty hard like if extra time had a manager of our club. Only have we add like we? Had you know Mount Rushmore which I think actually would be really cool thing to do is amount of an extra time itself Mount Rushmore. Maybe the fans could pick it. Maybe Eleven Kaelin extra time best eleven and then you have to see if you have to pick a manager of extra time it would have to be. Yeah that's true too Astner best eleven. Yeah that's what I have to do here for one zero six zero. Mls XTRA DOT COM. The greatest team in Minnesota United History is obviously twenty nineteen no debate. There let's get into the mail value and get Outta here. David we got so we got an email here from John. Lindsay that I've been waiting months to receive and he says avid listener. Here since twenty. Eighteen DC nine fan currently living in the UK. I was working through my emails this afternoon. Decided to actually click open. Today's UNICO advertisement. I was definitely not expecting to see this and sent in. Here is week one. We stayed active at home. An advertisement for unique low in Europe starring two models female and a male and that male. He says it's either Ceylan or he has a twin that he has never acknowledged or the move minute also a reference to his modeling career. We will put his picture out tailing have been found out tailing car Kaelin. Clay heated with Kintu. Nancy Kerrigan getting crowbar. I'm not sure is anything like that. Actually I've been trying of living is dual life secret life underneath the you know the guys of just being a documentarian and now I'm just a just model being exposed for my basic yoga. Mom that I'm putting out on on social media male model your time with us if you guys do. Don't really spend enough time talking to me or getting to know me or asked me about the real me because I've also done some commercial work with if somebody can find hold on commercial work with Jay Baldwin Aren't we played soccer together I think there was an appearance of that on. The Latin grammys can track that down from twenty eighteen. I don't really know how to explain what is happening. But I'm definitely getting this popped up. I think I was. Maybe a part of the last photo shoot ever created in real time in life and I thought it was something that was only exist in Belgium and at such the instagram literally. Every person I know. And it's it's It's a shame genuine car. He's the extra time it was just that good folks I met. I met somebody at a pick up game in Chinatown. Who's a casting director long weird winding story but anyways you hoes? Rushmore is when we have time to do forty minutes an outgoing making of that Shaun Lopez sent in a really good email. About some ideas we could do. About best elevens of different nationalities and. Mls them against each other which will get to send us more stuff. And David Elliott said. Loved hearing what you all miss about. Mls season. I must walk into the stadium on game days feeling like a twelve year old. I miss the boom boom clap. Who bringing the team onto the field fans cheering against the sounders opponents. Clapping the boys off the field after meeting up with my friends getting passed over Taco after the game and just enjoying it all he also has a. Ps here he asks. And I think this is a good one for Kaelin. This extended break. Alad affect players careers will time to rest their bodies and maybe get into different types of shape. Do you think it extends players careers will. Actually I was thinking more about this on the other side of things in this is as I went on a job the other day I I texted John Thornton. Afterwards that I I was running a low on and I remember thinking of him ahead of me because I used to try and track him down in a fire fitness tests. And I yeah I almost pulled a hamstring chasing guy basically bottom line which is fitting if you know the careers of John and I But Yeah I was thinking more for the older guys that this could be really hard. Because when you for Brennan Aaronson I did a stream with. And he's like I was like how long off care like. How long do you think you would need? And he's like one game and then I'd be ready to go and I'm like God but for the older guys like if you're getting later on your career the advantage you have as you haven't stopped. You just continued to train. It's so important for that consistency to be able to continue on. So when I think of some of the guys who are getting a little bit longer in the tooth it worries me a little bit of like how if you haven't been getting that normal training does this. Actually the guys that you think are later on but could maybe have had two one two three four years. Does this sledding. Li like shrink that sort of links span at the end of the on the back end of this thing because it is harder to it is harder to pick back up. We'd be we'd be your back. Is the oldest person in this on this podcast of what is your back. Say Kay listening to his ankle. Well I don't know right now the ankles feel pretty good the back. Agony and correct advice on the show you said he was about to quit at thirty seven and he picked up. Yoga and to ninety nine. And then he could play 'til fifty after that you can catch me doing Youtube Yoga every single day for the entire or a delay to try to get myself into practice shape. Did I sure by unique low gears? You're doing real crime has that I'm just shocking at Yoga because I've had like five knee surgeries and just. There's no hope for me at all. So they thought they were getting somebody athletic and it was just it was it was it was brutal deck of cards. Just fallen over. Well I'm in the same boat. Kaelin my ankles. Let me stand up straight at anytime so you start to zoom. We'll do extra time Yoga with Kaelin Car Reminder Wednesdays extratime trivia night of course every single day Masako dot com pump. You full of in less than soccer content noon is the around on twitter which Kaelin mentioned a two PM. It's a player chat on instagram. Live tomorrow is another. Ms Classics Remix. Alan Gordon is GonNa Join Myself Charlie. Davies that epic. La San Jose California classic. Oh With shirt pull off in the late goals just a normal California classical of those era so Thanks for listening. Thanks to practice for Sharon. All his experience and awesome story McGill Bar and stopping by helping us out with Minnesota United. All the current teams Mount Rushmore. Done next week dearly. Beloved and the overall MLS Mount Rushmore. And we'll also create that greatest team of all time bracket but that route here have good weekend everybody.

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Hour 2: Came & Wentz

First Take

00:00 sec | 2 years ago

Hour 2: Came & Wentz

"Mike ward stadium seat finding game tickets hard trae, but being there so much better than not being there are replaced my regular seat with the stadium seat to try and recreate that stadium atmosphere. I appreciate the effort, but I got a better idea use vivid seats to find tickets to the game. They make finding the seats that you want quick and easy. Sounds like getting tickets at vivid seats would have been the easier option. It always is. Sportscenter right now on the Collins with news out of the NFL sources telling our insider field Yates chargers are exercising their fifth year option. Enjoy Boza it keeps the twenty sixteen first-round pick and Potter blew through the twenty twenty season the defensive end had twelve and a half sex in his second season before being limited to seven appearances last year because of a foot injury McNabb is using Twitter to clarify his recent comments on eagles quarterback Carson Wentz. But Knapp who quarterback Philly from nineteen ninety nine through two thousand nine set on CBS sports radio that the teams should consider drafting another quarterback. If once county eagles pass a second round of the playoffs in the next two seasons. He tweeted yesterday for those of you who missed red didn't understand we're confused or just didn't like my comments clarify for you. Let me start by saying there's no beef riff or ill will toward whence or the eagles. My comments were strictly based off experience and understanding of how the business works. You're constantly. Evaluated every day every game. And if you're reliable and or healthy enough to play I know at times players and fans, it can be confusing to on from a beloved player, but due to the business of health and trust tough decisions are usually made. Maybe people just didn't like it. Because it's coming from me. Or I answered a question from one of the talents on the radio that we use it in agree with? That's how you feel him star. You feel that way? It's the nature of the game. Now, let's get you back to I take. So Don McNabb goes onto Twitter. Monday to clarify his stance on Carson win that you need to do that. Stephen Donovan McNabb. Oh and explanation. Hell, no. And I'm ticked off at him forgiving one. Which is what I text the Murli at tell him. I'm really ticked off that he felt the need to elaborate in explain himself. Gore did his original response and very upset would lane Johnson as well. Let me explain something laying Johnson is stuck don't give me all I'm certainly not going to cast any aspersions on him. But what I would ask sling Johnson is to consider who you're talking about here. I understand Carson Wentz is your quarterback. I love Carson Wentz. There is no question that I think he should be the starting quarterback for the Philadelphia Eagles should be the franchise quarterback. But everybody in the eagles locker room. Did it feel that way? I would know because I several players who personally told me they would have preferred Nick foles over costs. It went even though there were plenty of others who preferred coffin went over Nick foles, but and winces not been durable. He'd been injured. He has participated in postseason play in his three years as as. A quarterback for the eagles. Which is why Donovan McNab said what he said. Which is if two years from now, go by and cost and Wentz is still that dude that's getting hurt. It's not available for the postseason that doesn't is able to advance you in the postseason. They guess what we might need to draft another quarterback to secure future. What the hell is wrong with that? Put Ticu -ly considering who said it and lay Johnson. Evidently, you must've forgot. So let me remind you of who. Donovan McNabb is Donovan McNabb is a God. It took the Philadelphia Eagles to five straight playoff appearances from two thousand to two thousand four four consecutive NFC championship games, a Super Bowl appearance. He's been the five NFC championship games as the quarterback for the Philadelphia. Eagles you play football. So you know, how that's not easy to do in his eleven years as the quarterback for the Philadelphia Eagles are right? He's got a record one thirty more. Games plus above five hundred then he lost. Okay. He's been in sixteen playoff game. And he's a nominee for the hall of fame because of what he did for the Philadelphia Eagles organization and all he said was the durability question about this guy. And you're going to talk about Donovan McNabb like he's trash. I think that's wrong. I think it's wrong excessive on a part lay Johnson, and I would expect better from him for that. Even if he is coming into the defense of the quarterback and remember Donovan McNabb max is the guy that was picked number two overall just like Carson Wentz. And it was booed and was held to a standard that costs. It went has yet to be held to which is further evidence that gives him the right to say what the hell he said lay Johnson wrong here, and Donna that shouldn't have apologized or clarified rather, you should've clarified. He owed it to eagles fans. Plea look. Donovan McNabb is salty and everyone can smell it on him. You could smell it on him. He's salty. He does not like the way he was treated. And I've always thought McNabb is very underrated. I think he was a Super Bowl away essentially from being John Elway. What's really the difference? L waited got close. Never quite did it then got a great running back in one a couple at the very end when he was no longer as great as he once was had he not had those couple at the very end. What's seen him in McNabb? I think McNabb is essentially John Elway minus the Super Bowls, but minus the Super Bowl is a big thing. Not mcnabb's fault that they weren't quite good enough. But had he been able to take over the top and win a SuperBowl. He'd be remembered differently. I'm also sure that McNabb experiences the world and experienced Philadelphia and saw at some level through racial prism and felt like some of the standards were different based on race because it's an inescapable reality of American life, particularly at that time, especially at the quarterback position. But people can tell that McNabb salty. Sorry, Steven A. And if you're an eagles fan like time out your our greatest quarterback like we're all in this together. Right. Like you're rooting for Carson Wentz. Because the fact of the matter is the eagles won a Super Bowl with Carson Wentz. He didn't win it for him. He didn't get take them through the playoff run. It's why don't think they should have gotten rid of Nick foles tried to work that out by Hooker by crook. And then the following season got hurt. Nick foles is the reason you know, they made that little playoff run again. And there has been that Joe Santa Luqueno article that everyone got mad at about Carson Wentz points out certain ways in which Wentz could be a better leader. And I think Wentz will learn from that but McNabb just felt it feels to fans like this dude is kind of anti Carson Wentz, and it's based on his own experiences, and he's comparing himself to west he shouldn't be doing that. He should just be pulling for guy. Well, first of all that's not says, he can do what the hell he wants to do in that regard. And I'm gonna tell you why number one because again nominee for the hall of fame. Number two, you have individuals. It's not just McNabb. What do I religiously every morning on this show Matt's hall of famous come up to me all the time and say, don't forget the standard? Don't forget the standard there. We were held to don't give others the past. When you didn't give it to us. In other words that talking about the entire media. Not just talking about the entire fourth state and make the standard consistent. Okay. That preclu- number three. You wanna talk about? I'm addressing all your points. You wanna talk about the racial prism or whatever. The case may be this legitimacy that okay? Mcnabb. Is it wrong? Feel that way they held on to a different city number one number four match day. He's talking about constant with they have a better argument if he were talking about Nick foles Nick foles won the Super Bowl way with. With thought about. So what's the problem? Won the problem. Playoff yet McNabb never won a Super Bowl. But the team that Carson Wentz was on did and he contributed at least during the regular season. I want to read you a quote this from about a month ago. The ones we were part of already proven. I don't say these guys aren't there better than us? They have a great bullpen Chapman in the back will do what he needs to do their hungry. I can see it in their eyes. That's Mariano Rivera. The greatest pitcher inning for inning who ever live the most clutch player arguably, although time in any sport talking about the Yankees bullpen that is never wanna championship. As a Yankee fan. I'm like, I can see Rivera's with us Rivera's. You know, he's rooting for these guys and eagles fans smell on McNabb. Yo is is he rooted for us. That's why I'm not saying mcnabb's, not I'm saying that's why he needed his that his job is that his job, you tell the truth. Make you talk about the city of Philadelphia all the time, and how their fans could be ma- dot net is Mirroring what Philadelphia fan. Out that you're not wrong about that did McNabb. Oh us an explanation. Didn't know us he owed fans explanation, and he gave it to them. All right. The question is was he telling the truth was he right? That's the only question. They're writing the truth. Dogs dogs. Mike your guy selling hot dogs in here. I'll get tickets at a game. I want to see a hassle, but I missed that stadium atmosphere. So I brought the stadium atmosphere to work Michael vivid seats, make buying tickets quick and easy. Find the one in just a few clicks nice. I just got tickets. Tonight's game. I scream get your ice cream here. You guys can all go home. Now, we're good here. If I. So I'm always helping right? Like right now still help my team. I love my franchise. And I love the city. So you have to do things sometime on your own terms. No matter what other people think say, I'm that guy. She has. But but I'm still helping it's almost like I've never left. I'm still talking to them every day, sir. You missed LA. You'd be missed LA my whole life. I'm gonna help them get the Lakers back. Right. You can believe that. Welcome back to I hate coming to you live from the seaport district appear seventeen brought to you by chase. Magic Johnson tells TMZ that he's still talking to the Lakers every day. It's like you never left. According to the Los Angeles Times Jeanie Buss has no plans to hire replacement for magic max. Yep. Do you think the Lakers are better off with or without Magic Johnson? Because of the way magic quit. They're better off without him. Any kind of help he can give on the side is great as an ambassador cooks because of the way, he quit. There's no going back. Now, they got to get rid of Pelinka to Pelinka has not shown that he's good at the job. He's not experienced executive. He's a seller not a buyer. He's an agent not a not a GM to me. It indicates that Kobe still wields a lot of power with the Lakers. The fact that Pelinka was identified essentially by magic that or you could infer from what magic was saying is talking about Pelinka that magical and get pulling moved. And why would that be what powers holding Lincoln place? Seems to me Kobe's still wielding a lot of power. It's very interesting kind of soap opera, there's a lot of drama here. But I think you gotta get rid of Palinka, and you gotta get a guy in place immediately. Because building the team have to have someone calling the shots. Who knows what they're doing and knows how to get things done. And by the way, someone maybe who the whole league doesn't hate right? Like that would be a good idea. But Stephen a the way magic quit right now with no team president in place with as the GM. It's a clown show. Let's be honest. That's why all these free. It's not just lebrons presence. The circus has come to town because LeBron you had another superstar to LeBron your title contender like that. Even LeBron at this age. No right now the league is looking into Lakers. Like, it's a clown show over there, and the clippers seemed like the franchise that looks at tractive because they're being run. Well, so the way magic quit better off without him. I hate to say I love Magic Johnson. Well, first of all I disagree. I don't feel like the Lakers are better off without magic. But I have a different opinion on a different issue. So it's not necessarily disagreeing directly, which you magic. Max his what I'm trying to say. Magic johnson. The Lakers are not better off without him. Because the reason you lost him is because essentially link is still there. Now, Jeanie Buss rob Lincoln everybody else can deny it. But anybody that's covering the Lakers. We'll tell you. We have all heard that Magic Johnson wanted. Both Luke Walton and Pelinka going clearly genie did not have a problem with Luke Walton leaving. So that wasn't the issue. The issue was Pelinka. Now, you could bring up the attachment Koby. You could bring up the relationship Pelinka cultivated with genie. You could bring up the relationship. Pelinka has Linda ran vis genie's. Good friend next door neighbor. Now, some defacto executive for the Lakers. Whatever you wanna call. I don't know what the hell. She is right now, I respect I'm not trying to disrespect about saying that I'm just saying, I don't know Heroux at the end of the day. Here's what it comes down to people believe that Linda Rambus is the biggest. Influence engineer buses air, whether that's accurate or not. I have no clue, but that's what people believe and clearly people believe that Magic Johnson wanted to get rid of rob Pelinka and with the nod to opportunity to do. So which is why he walked out the door. So when we asked a question as to whether or not the Lakers are better off without magic. My answer would be no because if you will willing to get rid of Pelinka, then magic with likely still be their new GM would be in play. Somebody more experienced on being a bio max as opposed to a seller. Whatever whatever analogy that you wanted to us about Pelinka, a more experienced hand in terms of cap issues, you know, being a GM knowing how to work the phones being able to pick up the phone and actually get it answered and receiving people willing to receive your phone calls, which was a challenge for Pelinka from what I was being told these are the kind of things that magic anticipated overseeing remember he inherit. Did pelinka. He didn't bring Pelinka onboard janey Boston. A Lakers told him police because you're right hand guy as a GM just like Walter is your coach magic wanted his old team. And that was the not so of magic had had his own team all with able to formulate his own team. He would not have had to leave. Which is why I don't say the Lakers are better off without him. They would have been better off with him. Had they listened to him in terms of wanting somebody other than the people they haven't I agree with that. Could you imagine the when I say clown show? What a clown show the Lakers are right now. So let me get this street. And like I'm rooting so hard for Jeanie Buss. I've never had any experiences with her especially someone who is here like dealing with the Knicks in New York, and then going out to L A and deal with the Lakers. It's like, yeah. No wonder this franchise has all these championships. And the Knicks don't look at the kind of that are running this place. You like them and you root for them. But right now, Stephen imagine this for a second imagine Pelinka chooses the new coach because they're good in need another coach right Pelinka has his and then he's going to have to get one out of there because he's no good. Eventually. So. Start again. It's potentially worse than that is potentially worse than that. Max would've Linda Rambus is the one making that Cole? I'm not saying, that's that's the reality. Saying that's the perception. Let's be very clear also because we both got a lot of affection for genie bus. But it's important that we remember this. She did not do well for herself dishes. She called out the media where she was being interviewed at the sports institute. You know, you got voices LA like the great Bill Plaski to LA Tom's Brad Stevens. Outstanding. Reporter, you know, my buddy for the Los Angeles Times as well. Jim hills of the world and others people were incredibly offended by the position that she took because it came across as not only disingenuous not only an accurate, but grotesquely unfair to individuals in the local media who spent the last five years giving an incredible pass. And so she's walked around. Now, she's talking about fake news. And. Immu whole words verbiage is imitating and echoing people that we don't feel like bringing up on this show on this particular day. These are the kind of things that have been coming out of the mouth. Religiously over the last several months and Jeannie buses star has descended to some degree monks local media because they feel like she's basically figuratively speaking spilling face by not being appreciative of the past that they've given her for the last five to six years. So she asked to be careful right now, really quickly guys. Magic said something else fascinating teams. He said he was confident really confident certain LeBron will bring a to the Lakers. Are you guys sharing that confidence got to be quick here? Stephen max, are you certainly Bron brings a championship to allay. I'm not. I'm not I'm worry because I'm not sure that the Lakers are going to get that next star. But I believe the clippers are imacs. I got some news for you. I starting to believe I'm starting to believe that could clippers have a legitimate shot a better than fifty percents shot at both a while Linnet, and Kevin Durant starting to believe that I based on hearing. I'm starting to believe that. Yeah. I also think that there's a good possibility that that can happen. Let me say this will I'm under fifty fifty that. The Lakers will win a championship. I think they have a damn good shot. Let's say thirty or forty percent chance. But let me tell you how I calculate this four year deal for LeBron didn't win it last year. Three years left ain't gonna win it this year two years left age age thirty five thirty six year old LeBron at which point let's say they have a and they have some good pieces around then has two years left. Not just to contend for champion. Ship but win one it could happen but under fifty fifty okay? And I just want to I want to bring the highlighter out the big yellow highlighter, Steven you're telling us from what you're hearing better than fifty percent shot. Not just why. But cool why and Katy to the clippers tell you. That's what I'm here right now, the clippers feeling very very good about themselves. These days. Remember, I was out in LA last week for reason. Jerry, West is unbelievable. All right. That's awesome information were two days away from the two thousand nineteen NFL draft. And joining us now to give us insight into the top prospects waiting to hear their name called is the mouth of the south, Mr Paul finebaum. What's up? Paul will buddy. I'm good man time. It has been so guys. Let's do this. Let's go through some of the bigger names of able this weekend. Paul mac? Stephen you guys will tell us your confidence level each player being a star in the pros. Okay. Well, we do it on a on a one to ten scale. I'll name the guy you tell me on a scale of one to ten how confident you are. Let's start with the biggest name in the draft. Let's start with Cuyler Murray. Paul. How confident are you? He will be a star in the NFL. I'm out about a seven ratio. Listen, I think he's an outstanding player. I understand the love for him. But I saw some things I did not like he struggled against army. That's a game that Oklahoma had to go to overtime to win. But I on the. The biggest game of his career. He didn't show up in the first half. Alabama went out to a twenty eight to nothing lead. I realized his star receiver was banged up. It was not a good situation for him. But still he was chased all over the field by Alabama's defensive line, which we'll talk about maybe a little bit later. And I think it showed one thing he came back in the second half Alabama was wearing down a little bit. They were already thinking about the next game against Clemson. But it showed me that he can be vulnerable. He made some very poor decisions. He was he was running for his life in the NFL. He'll be running for his life every single Sunday at one o'clock. Was that say right there? Seven. Yeah. I see I see very largely the same way. That Paul just described. He seems to have all the attributes of a star. He's small just because Russell Wilson is done it and drew Brees to a lesser extent. They're not quite as smallest Kyle Murray. And Baker Mayfield is on his way to being a star. If he's not already doesn't necessarily mean, basically size does help you. But he has the army has the legs. He has decision making. I Steve day actually was troubled by what I heard about the combine if that was simply irresponsible reporting. That's the reason it's responsible because it puts them down your mind. I'll give them a seven. I'm at an eight. And the reason why I'm eight guys is because I think he's playing with house money. First of all you have a head coach who I still repeat does not deserve to be to head coach at Arizona. I mean to below five hundred head coach on the collegiate level to lose your job to get a coordinator's position in college football. And before you have a chance to go down the road awful PICO and LA brea at roscoe's to get some chicken and waffle suddenly become a head coach in NFL. It is amazing to me that Kingsboro is the head coach and the NFL having set all of that. I believe that column Murray would be playing with house money because you're playing for coach just going to let you run as much as he throws because that's going to be able to gloss over some of the mistakes that the rookie head coach on the NFL level may be able to make Nick more stuff is going to be put on column Murray would is real. And I think he's going to be spectacular in that category. And obviously it's going to come with minimal expectations because he's undersized and he's a rookie quarterback. So I think that he'll be playing with house money. And as a result will look at what he does. What is we? Heels and the dual ability that he has and I think I think eight appropriate Stephen really quickly as a quick follow before we move on. I want to talk about this a little later on the wheel Kane show, but is your confidence higher for color or lower because of cliff Kingsbury. Confidence is high because of him and his ability, but I don't have much faith in kings burry. Stephen, Michael what happens to Kyle Murray after Kingsbury is fired which way, I think we all in this panel. No, he will be pretty soon agree with that that we'll revisit discussing this. Really? I'm not sure about that only because kings good to have his quarterback like kind of gonna give Kingsbury the best possible chance to succeed. You're right. If he doesn't then it's like, dude. What what can we give you? We gave you the guy. But I think chance. Chance because of the heart in the basketball. Yes. They're totally confidential. Yes. Because of that, I'm more confident in column with Kingsbury. Jon Gruden in Oakland me too. Okay. Okay. So we're all say great column fits Zona less confident somewhere else. But if he doesn't go number one the name that many are suing would is Joey Voces younger brother, Nick Bosa, Paul. How confident are you in a knick Bosa as a pro? I'm not a draft analyst. But you're asking me a question. I would rank him the highest player. We're gonna talk about today. I would give him a ten. I think he's got everything necessary. Yeah. I know. I know you had the injury and a lot of people quibble about that. But in watching him over his career. I mean, he he does everything. Well, I think he's a can't miss and I would take him over collar Murray or anyone else in this draft. I give them a nine poll. I agree with everything you said except there's injury concerns. And by the way, his brother is also a star in the NFL. He's at least as good as his brother. It looks like in college. So I give him a ten, but if you've already had a major injury that's had you miss time in college, you're playing a somehow I feel like between like a tackle. And a defensive end that the defensive end feels to me more like the injury position. And if if you've already been hurt I can't give you a ten I'll give them a nine tonight. He's. Why I you know? I mean, I'll give I'll give them a knob because I'm certainly not questioned his ability. But listen, Joey both is a big top play. As far as I'm concerned look at how much he was reduced gets Tom Brady. I get what I'm trying to say is. I think as football continues to evolve you're going to see quarterbacks getting rid of the football quicker. I think it's going to neutralize some edge. Russia's like him. I know that he's got the ability pole. I'm not chain. I'm not questioning that at by any stretch of the imagination. But I'm thinking impact if you're talking about his ability. I completely believe I completely believe in Nick Bose's ability. But how effective is he going to be dependent on the quarterbacks. He goes against you know. You know, they're getting rid of the football combined with his durability when three hundred pounds. We had two twenty pound offensive lineman a block and get the full in on them on purpose. I don't know he. I g much out of the injury, by the way, he had he had half a season to recuperate. I mean, he took the season off. So the problem with that? We we had that conversation on yourself a couple of months ago. I mean, why not why why play for house state and two games get banged up and lose your draft status. But I mean that injuries over with. I mean, he's completely recovered. He's recuperated. So why hold that against you got hurt players get I'll tell you. Why let me answer that question. Mr. Bob, the great fun. Who I loved dearly? Let me ask that question. If you're worried about him getting into two Danes, what about sixteen against grown men who've got him by about fifty pounds that will fall on him on purpose because they think that ultimately durability is a question. More say not his ability to there. But he I also like your core stuffed effects guys when I hear about core injuries right away. I get a little bit nervous. Presuming. He's healed to Paul's point. He's. I realize I was on sports medicine panel here. I thought we were talking. No place. A legal panel an expertise 'penal of every kind. I don't know. This time is max doing hip surgery this afternoon over at Mount Sinai about that. The jury this show every day. Okay. Because I'm seven seven and eight on collar Murray, you guys gave him I want to go to the other quarterback. The God of the max Stephen a wearing big blue wearing the big blue from New York Giants next year Paul Duane Haskins. One to ten how confident are you? I like him I'm going to give them an eight. I realized that's somewhere in the middle there. But I yeah, he he had some limitations, but he can throw the ball deep. He moves. He does pretty much everything that I wanted to see now. Now, he disappeared once in a while this he played on team that lost it for do. But he he let an amazing comeback against Penn State, which really impressed me and he survived urban Meyer that gets an extra point in my book. I give them an eight as well. It's I know he's one year starter. But look at the trends, he got better. And better as the season went on. He has a huge arm. They had a passing attack where he's throwing down the field. Getting seventy percent completion fifty touchdowns. Eight interceptions has the kind of attitude and eat O'Connor's great article on ESPN dot com about this is like a young Derrick jeeter. This guy says winner to me I take him over Josh Rosen. Josh Rosen were available in the draft. And he is available but treated seems I love Haskins. He's not fast. We he's only a one year starter that keeps them at eight for me. But thank you for max being as quick as the producers asked you to really appreciate that. I'll go what has because at eight as well. And the reason I would do. So the reason why it's not higher is because I'm worried about the coaching here receive at the next level he can land in New York. He could land Cincinnati with a rookie coach he could land in the nation's capital with Jay Gruden. I just don't know what it's going to be like for him. But I believe in his ability all of you more confident Dwayne Haskins than except Stephen. You have them tied fascinating. All right, Paul. Appreciate having having you on always, man. The new state farm drive safe and save app. Could get you a discount thirty percent for good driving. But it's date from radio ad gets you one hundred percent discount on this plastic. Would. Just up to thirty percent, dry states and say just say. Not available in all states. Beckham junior took to Twitter yesterday on what he called one of the best days of his life and said he was ready to fire back at all the haters and a late night question and answer session and responded to one person who called him a locker room cancer. He said has any one of my teammates of who? I was a teammate in a man and a person, and yes, I'm a cancer to a place. That's okay. With losing. Because I want to win that bad. You're absolutely correct. Saying, yeah, he's a cancer to places that like to lose. Stephen you like love hate what Beckham's response on Twitter. Well, I like that part about the cancer. Because I think that adamant of Gettleman, I'm sorry, provoked and initiated all of this. I don't like how expansive he was. I think responding the folks on Twitter he put forth like forty one tweets and went out of his way to forty four tweets, actually. And I think about forty one or forty two of them were coming to the defense of himself. And I think he went a little bit overboard with it as a potato. I'm only a cancer team. That's okay. With losing. I think the New York Giants deserve that shop because Mr. Dave Gettleman a grown man of who is an executive who is an accomplished executive believe it or not shit. No better than take shots at Dell Beckham junior, which is exactly what he did. I think a day or two earlier when he was asked about the problem with the coach and the giants locker room, and he said, it's not a problem anymore. Clearly wasn't talking about Livia Vernon when he body else. He was talking about. Dell Beckham JR. And that was an unnecessary shot. And it was childish would get them into do that. So I don't blame Odell Beckham junior for coming to his own defense in that regard. But then he got a bit excessive, and that part, I didn't like it all the matter of fact, I hated it because I'm looking at Dell Beckham junior, and I'm seeing your commenting trolls on Twitter. Good luck with that number one. But number two or more importantly, he went at somebody talking about what he's done in the playoffs. Odell Beckham junior has been the one more playoff game. Then you, and I which is to say just one in isn't tie career and in that particular game he dropped about three or four passes of the eleven attempts that were thrown in his direction. I think the number was four if I remember correctly. And so you're in no position really bloviating come to your own defense about your post season performance because you only had one of them, and it wasn't very impressive. And so I think that you've gotta recognize that and understand it if you'll del Beckham. Julia the fact that you made that spectactor. Catch that one indicates it gets the Cowboys at in East Rutherford, New jersey changed the complexion or the or the trajectory of your career and your life. You became an instant magnet box office material endorsement deals came your way to Nike deal came there. After an all of these things happen to you. Because of that catch is great of a talent as you are an e is phenomenal. And actually a good person. I might add undeserving of what get them in did to him or set about him. That is the bottom line is Odell Beckham junior's still has an awful lot to prove. I love if it's like love or hate. I love Odell response. In fact, I'm going to get to the playoffs thing in a second other than the playoffs. Perfect. The perfect response Gettleman has a lot of nerve calling Odiele cancer. And by the way, I've heard of because the cancer with the giants has been the front office and the coaching. It's been the they've been bad. They've been they've had some they've been bed the front office have to fix the. Line Gettleman went out and handed out neat soldier the richest linemen in the NFL briefly offensive lineman job, Dave notice who got rid of Nate solar. The patriots. You think it's wise to signed to the biggest contract the guy that Bill Belichick feels like he can part with? Look. Odell is I think the most talented wideout who ever lived. I think he has a chance to be the greatest of all time. I think the giants didn't like what I hear the fact that he wasn't big on film study and stuff like that. And the excuse they make sometimes he's not where it's going to be it messes up the offense, and the nonsense of that is that demonstrably according to the numbers he lie was barely an NFL quarterback starter with Odell on the field without Dell on the field. He was much worse. So how is not being where he's supposed to be? According to some people that I've heard from. How is that hurting the giants if they're much worse without him on the field, by the way statistics? Well, according to the numbers, those are records of events in Odell tenure as a New York football giant. They never had an offense of line. They were terrible until saquon one year they had zero running game, and let me be very clear, and I love ally. Manning he brought New York two Super Bowls with clutch plays. I love him. When ode L was on the giants. Ally was cooked. They have not had a quarterback. And the fact that then they turn around and try to go after his reputation, basically as a cancer. He has every right to I'm a cancer on a losing team because I am trying to win on need to correct. The record next year second. And let's missed a massive story. Gettleman did not call Beckham junior a cancer. He said to say that like no max said it twice Stephen just let me correct. This record really quickly. He said, there was a culture problem. Okay. Go ahead. I have a quote, I want to read the quote, that's why we're going to interrupt max here was what the quote was. He's talking to New Jersey dot com. He says there's more to it than just collecting talent. There is a cultural thing to it. That's critical. I have not been on a team that's going to a Super Bowl. That's had a culture problem. The reporter asked him followed up by asking him if he had a culture problem in New York and get them and said not anymore. So who's he was his shot kit. Everybody you can read into said earlier in the show in. I n furred I should have said that again, I'm inferring because I'm a reasonable person with a brain that he is talking about Odal junior we satisfied. Now look distinction was whether or not he called him a cancer who said he had a culture problem. He did not call him a cancer beckoned called himself cancer himself, the cancer to an organization that was awry with losing that becomes the operative problem. They'll max the Joanne's are certainly guilty of many mistakes, including in my opinion, drafting saquon Barkley over Sam darnold year ago, they are guilty of incompetence. But are they okay? With losing if you if your answer to that is anything, but yes, you can't be okay. With Oto Beckham on your husband WI I'll tell you why it's totally fair. For Dell to say, yes. Because if you're giants ownership, and you could keep putting losing front offices and coaches in place than your okay with losing so long as they reflect your general sense of how football should work, you know, they fit the profile from central casting according to ownership, but they continue to lose. And you continue to operate the same way. Then you are. Okay. With losing and ode L is not Stephen A quickly about the play offs. You're right about that. Odell can't open his mouth about the playoffs. When we all. I said when they went down on that boat trip. Everything's fine. But now two things have to happen. Dell. Just for the optics one you got to win and to you better not drop any balls, and he dropped to tick dealer that were bad in his hands. Will will come at you with this will because this is where I wanna go with this. I think it's important that we understand something here. Even though the word cancer was never used. That is correct. Okay. You're talking about a culture problem and your. Intimating that it was del Beckham Julianne getting rid of him as addressing the culture problem with the New York Giants, you know, what that ain't even get him. Biggest problem? The biggest problem that get them. In has a my estimation is how he then followed up not in the end of you. But I'm talking weeks ago after trading older Becca junior. It's the willingness to follow up by being so outspoken in support of an ally. Manning that everyone would too is can see his skills have clearly dissipated to some degree. And it's due to age and attrition. We have seen ally. Manning go down without getting touched at your site of oncoming Russia's he's sat on the turf, just so he wouldn't be touched is the equivalent of a boxer and analogy that Mexican appreciate you. It's the quivalent of a box that's Punchdrunk for crying shot. This. Shot shot fighter. Show if I want to get touched and Joe del statement from on on the cancer to any organization. That's okay. With losing just answer this police, if I changed that to on the cancer to any organization, that's losing would that change your opinion. Tenny organization is losing. I'm sorry. I don't instead of okay. With losing. He's a ceiling. Okay, with it seems to me that everything Dila saying is resting upon accusing the giants of being okay with losing rotting because the situation is what happens if you go to Cleveland, and they're losing are you cancer. What would it be? I wouldn't be okay. If he said, I'm a cancer that anybody that's losing. Because sometimes you're going to have rough patches and your character is going to show up. Right. But he is use it a word. Okay. With losing. Because again, they're supportive of God that they love so much because of what he did in the past, and then not paying attention enough to the here, and now and estimation, and you guys out there that the younger talent I like sacrificial lambs. The giants are okay. I'm a giants fan. They've been okay. With losing for far too long. Odell is absolutely right about that. Okay. With losing did GM and get a coach New York football giants take it from a Cowboys fan. Maybe this reflects a little less bias sometimes you can just be bad at your job not actually being. Okay. With losing. I think it's usually probably manning is where to okay comes in will ally banning is okay comes in because they consistently correct out of their way to act like he something he is no longer that's corrupt. When a series. Physically it seems like. It's fun. Not not to. You know, things like. My games on other level. Jimmy being. Let's. Engine do. Charts? Playoff. Dwell and bean says he likes the physicality of this series. But his coach Brett Brown warned the team Monday that there isn't a secret how this game will be played given the complaints that have surfaced in regards to refereeing. So Stephen eight how confident are you that Embiid can stay away from trouble in this game? I'm not that confident. I think this is one of those situations where you gotta keep your eyes on the game. You gotta keep your eyes on Philadelphia. Seventy Sixers Embiid has fun off of antagonizing. He knows he's better than them. But to tag Anais them rub it in their face in the process. It's not something that he's a verse to doing and the Brooklyn nets. This is this is a team that that's gutsy. They're not scared of anything. They're not as skilled as the Philadelphia. Seventy sixers. That's why they're losing this series. But in the same breath, they're going to fight they're going to come after you. They're not going to back down and went Jared Dudley. Pushed in beat in the back. He didn't do it. Because it after titular play. He did it from days earlier when Embiid elbow Jared Allen, and then laughed about it in a press conference. It was residue from that. They know they're not the superior team. They know they are an inferior team, and they wouldn't shock the Brooklyn nets at all. If they ended up going down in this series tonight, which everybody should expect to happen. After what we saw in games three and four. But in the end, they're not gonna go out quietly. Brooklyn is giving you know indication that they're going to go down quietly. I'm not telling you, they're going to break rules or whatever, but they are going to be physical. They're going to fight. They're going to be gutsy, and you know, this when the GM is running into the referees locker room, you know, you're not supposed to do that. That's exactly what he did. Because according to what the NBA told me he was convinced that in beach have been jet for the game more so than Jimmy Butler. So these are the kind of things this residue. From this past games coming into tonight's game. They're not going to go quietly and in bead. Unlike everybody else is going to invite that just to mess with their heads and send them home miserable for the off season. He'll enjoy doing that. Because that's his personality. But I'm confident and beat can stay away from trouble. I think the nets will be chippy partly because they understand probably their best shot is to exchange any player on their roster for and beat if any two guys get thrown out, and then beat is one of them the nets just suddenly the nets odds improve. So they understand that. But here's the thing about NB. He's a super smart player. First of all like from the first tweet at riana like when you're playing fantasy football. You can tell who's going to be good in the league based on the name of the team. That person's smart got to watch them. You could tell from NBC Twitter. It's not just that. He's funny is high Q like, he's a smart guy. That doesn't always mean though, that you can stay out of trouble. If you have an impulse control. Problem. He doesn't know this is not perfect or someone like that. This Embiid has played under control. Now he plays with passion. He's clearly interested in being the best player in the world in being a great defensive player. But he is the go dirt. Not the go d so I'm not worried about 'em be doing something stupid. I think he'll stay out of jail. Stephen. Why does this question the question? The question wasn't along the lines of what he get injected or something. In other words, max when when Jimmy Butler got Jek did all right and Jared Dudley gotta checked it in beat wasn't a middle of that. He didn't get a check did. But he wasn't some innocent bystander. He was instigated. That's all I'm talking about. He's not innocent at all of this needs to way to be in the middle of it. He's not going to be interested all the he's not gonna be some innocent bystander. If you want to change the question to, hey, if there's trouble in the game the question to be innocent. That's a -lutely not he's an instigator. I'm just saying he's not the instigated when I think about staying out of trouble. That's what I figured max. If you're always involved in. No, it's Marcus smart or Jared Dudley. If you're always involved in it is going to come back to bite you. May we'll do well as the other guy that's a fair point. He could wind up embroiled in something where he damages himself somehow, even if he's not technically to blame. But I don't see I think he's two hundred control listen to this guy's NBA champion Kendrick. Perkins was on get up yesterday. And he had some high praise for Leonard. This may sound crazy. But Kowa Linda reminds me of Michael Jordan. And I'm not saying, you know, what I'm not comparing him to Mike. But if you watch the way he plays his style the way he plays the game on both ends. He can have a game that mimics Michael Jordan is not all the way fancy. He gets his bites. He got nice turnarounds. Big hands palm the ball in on the defensive end. Like, he's just he's probably the best in the game. That Michael Jordan analogies for Leonard matchy like that comparison. I do I know exactly what he means. But Michael Jordan's not the guy who jumps to mind because co is not the kind of play was going to give you fifty on a nightly basis Jordan in the playoffs. Fifty he'll give you fifty like every time, he'll do whatever he needs to do that way. Kawais is not that kind of ball dominant score, although he can be bold dominant. And he's not the passer Pippen was I get it. But he reminds me much more of Pippin actually than Jordan the competitiveness like Jordan. Sure. But the game like he's the guy. He's the forward who you can put on the best perimeter player on the other team every night, and he'll do the best job in the world on that guy. Like, you couldn't do a better job. And also give you a good positive contribution on the other end, not the passer Pippen was I get the hands comparison to Jordan. But if forced to choose between, Jordan and Pippen who he reminds me more of I would say Kawai reminds me. More of Pippin. You're all I would go with the Jordan comparison because I think we have to listen to the words that Kendrick Perkins. Stated he talked about clearly Michael Jordan is in a class by himself. But when you look at Kawagoe wise average twenty six this year co why is your number one offense of option that was never really it. I mean, even when Jordan was going Pippen sat on a bench in the payments game because they'll Lou Phil Jackson called Toni Kukoc number to close out. The game VIP is a career sixteen point per game scorer. He clearly look at Hawaii Lenin. And that's not his intent. He's a number-one option. He's a better than twenty five games. Go point per game score. He shoots about forty nine percent from the field. He shoots about thirty seven percent from three point range Pippen. Never did that certainly defensively. Kuwa- does a lot. What what Jordan and Pippen does? But ofensive -ly Kowa Leonard is far more significant than Pippen every even tried to be. And I think that's why the comparison Jordan is more is more pal. 'table than than comparisons. Look, look if there were three point shot was it was his prevalent. Then as it is now people would've shot the more. But at his best pipping was twenty two points. Twenty one points twenty points, twenty one points rebounds up seventy eight boards game assists, up five and six. Assists a game three steals a game like throughout his never number one off at the with the exception of Jordan being gone, right? And it's definitely the number one is in. Let's not forget the Knicks got a gift in game seven against the taken into the finals and to Mason. He was the number one option on that team. He was the second best player in my opinion to Hakim that year in the NBA, let's fix denigrating Scottie Pippin with just talking about what reminds Kawais game remind you more we're not ever, denigrating Scottie Pippen. So Stephen, let's fix this storm. Now, you're absolutely right. Quite a number one, option Scottie Pippen never was. So he was actually we're not too is gone. One year next. There's parts of this. Don't worry don't go to why Jordan also not even the well rounded nature cO is game reminds you of Pippin, but set us aside who is the right historical comparison for Leonard in don't fit it into these two boxes, then give me the right guy. There's really not a perfect comparisons. I understand what. Perkins means Stephen in certain respects. He is reminiscent of Jordan and co is not a great passer. That's the one part of pipping was very good passer. Wise not great at that. There's not a perfect comparison to Kawai. He's not like the kind of spectacular score we've seen in the past. Grant Hill's game also more of a passer. Right. And maybe even more of a rebounder. Why is unique kind of player? He is good enough to be the number one scoring option on a championship team. Had he played with Jordan. He would not have been the number one scoring option. But he is he his defense is what makes them special is excellent. As offenses like who is he like a souped up Igwe Dollond as MS range and and as mid range game. I think if you're going to answer the question that will present it. I think Jordan is applaud with only thing that you'd never confuse Kawai and Jordan. I'm not saying the only thing, but when you look at Jordan occur. Why has never been a Skywalker. He's never had an aerial assault. The likes of which we haven't seen Dunkin over seven foot four Marquis into the world and people like that. That's not who could wide lend it is. But if you look at his dribbling, if you look at his mid range game is pull up mid range game the man in which is defense the way that he scores to strengthen finishing at the basket, etc. Etc. It's not that he is. Jordan by any stretch of imagination. But I think he's more closer to that kind of a game. Then he was to pip. Here's the problem with the comparison. We already have seen a guy who's almost exactly like, Jordan Kobe. Someone's like who was just like, Jordan Kobe. You say who was just like, Jordan. It's not Kawai even if you see Jordan in his game. I don't know the answer. Like, I as I said, maybe a souped up Igwe Dala type, I guess with a better three point shot. Let's go to Kobe. Kobe even walked like Jordan for crying Kawais. Larry low profile doesn't want any kind of sizzle at all. That's not a wa let me go back to the rockets rockets last night couldn't close out the jazz. They went over thirteen from three in the fourth quarter and failed to complete the sweep game five will be Wednesday night back in Houston. Did this hurt the rockets chances ultimately against the warriors not closing out the jazz? Max don't actually think it helped him. It's a wakeup call. They gotta hustle for everything. They can't take things for granted loose, balls rebounds, boxing, guys out making the extra pets like they got sloppy. And they took they took the jazz for granted. I think it's a good wakeup call. Also, if they're going to have a little issue shooting get it out of your system. Now don't bring that to the warriors series. I think if anything that could have helped. I disagree. I disagree does to additional those are two additional days that that they gotta worry about an opponent as opposed to getting ready for Golden State. So now the series will probably end at the same time. You gotta rest you didn't that you were going to have a rest avantage. You don't have that. Now and keep in mind that the rockets has been the issue this year health C P three goes down. Click appellate goes down regarding missed a few games, etcetera etcetera and additional gain doesn't help in regards to win tear. You never know how that could affect. I think it was a mistake. Not to close them out last night. Let me get you guys on the record with prediction tonight. Thunder blazers to the blazes close out the thunder tonight max, yes, yes, they do. Yes. Both w easy. They do. Dame time, it's Lillard time. All right one more question for you on the wrong. Someone ask you this. Then you guys aren't you worried about the rockets going cold again, they did it last year. James harden, did it earlier in the series did get you're not worried about them going on Jay taught and drops forty five in game five shown attendance cold when it matters drop dropped thirty nineteen shots with when he couldn't shoot supposedly. The new state farm drive safe and save app. Could get you a discount thirty percent for good driving. But it's date. Farm radio ad gets you one hundred percent discount on this classic. Would. Just up to thirty percent, dry safe and say just say. Not available in all states.

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The secret life of the 'Beauty Queen Killer'

Conversations

51:10 min | 2 years ago

The secret life of the 'Beauty Queen Killer'

"This is an ABC podcast. Christopher wilder could have been stopped at several points in his career. But he wasn't. Christopher wall was psychotic serial killer. He was raised in a stroller in the post war years and then later move to the United States in both places. He used the same technique to young women and teenage girls, he would appear with a camera and a business card and offer these girls career as a photographic model. It's not really certain how many women Christopher wall to killed most of his attacks took place in the United States. But in the mid nineteen sixties Christopher wall was recorded as a suspect in the notorious wonder beach murders in southern suburbs of Sydney, but the thirties filed to connect the dots again. And again, Christopher wild slipped through the hands of the Justice system both in a stroller and the United States. Duncan. Mcnabb is back on conversations today. Duncan is a former New South Wales police detective who writes about a straining crime. And he's chronicled the story of Christopher wilder in a new book called the snapshot killer. And just a warning giving the subject matter this conversation, obviously be distressing for some people. And it's definitely not for kids. So best to keep them out of each Dunkin. Hello, richard. My dad used to take me to the one debate sans into the big itself. When when I was a kid, I've I haven't been if using his news, but I remember having a lot of sand dunes there in the denies to shoot movies back in the day. I think chevelle shot the strategy forty thousand horsemen they're back in the twenties thirties or something rather a while desolate place sand June's everywhere. Deep depressions, very, discreet. I'm talking to a couple of the cops who operating in the air time a place where people would got it take close off and nude son by also place where some local crepes would prowl about as well hoping for glimpse of an illicit Bristow something. A lovely place on the beach, but it'd creepy in the sans to how big impacted the one debates murders of not in sixty five have on the public sake. We we round in those I admit to being a child at the time, and you know, it back in those days as kids, you you go to the beach for the day, your parents send you off with enough money to buy lunch or a sandwich say nine o'clock in the morning sale at comeback by the time. The sun goes down islet across the road from the beach narrow Baynes just to show it will across the right, but we could all swim wear reasonably stewed kids. Parents had no worries at all the concept of some crap on the beach trying to lure into Sanjin. You didn't even think about we will really really innocent. And I think the one debate killings and the Eli to win the Beaumont kids disappeared and Adelaide really just shocked the living daylights out of the strategy and payments out kids longest Saif though in longer I to go to the beach on their own the motives were to teenage girls to fifteen year old girls. I'm mary. Schmidt and Christine Sharrock. What would they plans for that? I had that Diane fault. What you what you know that the Schmidt family and Chris Christie lift next door to the Schmitz in west ride. She was living with grandmother at the time the family had some issues, and she was taking a time out with grandparents, Christina Marianne. Great friends Mariane had quite a large family that derived from Jimmy post wall resettled in Australia and father died of a terrible cancer. Any recently. The kids were it wasn't uncommon for them to won't a data the train station and take a long rod on the Allred Rattlers from wis- ride through Redfern Chinese try to Cornell a reasonably easy transit along dies trip. But a Saifi's transit so chronology was really popular with the kids from that area. They'd been there few tons before. Just knew it wasn't uncommon for them to tight the younger kids with them as well family debt on the day. They died Marion's mother was in hospital. The elder brothers were actually tiding up the house give fresh cut or pints mom came back. She get an surprise so Marianne an incredibly responsible kid had been looking after a family Jujuy for years took them to the beach, which is very excited as they headed towards the base of weather start tier right by the time. They got there was one of those guys. But blustery the sea was dangerous. You've probably. Wouldn't go in for Sieff around about lunchtime. They hit it up towards won'the from Cornell and early afternoon or something other the two bills decided to. Leave the young kids for while. They found a safe place for them in the sand, June made sure that had food and water stuff, and they wanted off out of character, these two very responsible kids, but they wanted off the giggling, they're laughing happy as of fringe criminal might Amman sit to me, you know, win two girls wonder off to responsible bills wonder off chances are they meeting? Boy. Now didn't that didn't they say we're off to do something mad? They did off to off to do something that and they giggling and happy. So this is really unusual and a couple of minutes later young Wolfgang Schmittou, I think was seven at the time decided he'd have a little bit of an adventure of his own. And he climbed out of through the engines, and he saw his sister and her best friend Christine walking down the beach and the young sufi looking block with in the middle of them with his arms around them for close, obviously degree of miliary. He'd never seen this before the blood was I think describes having fairly long blond hair and had. White zinc cream on his nose to keep the sun. And that was a description of the loss, and I think who have sold the two bills alive and Wolfgang guide that the police about twenty four hours later how those kids lift whiting in that June on their own without the goes a couple of hours. I think Justice sunset was coming back. Prediabetes is at about five thirty or so no sign of anybody's. They've had the prison Sabban to walk back to Cornell grab the train all the way back to west rod, and they've alerted their elder brothers and Christine's grandmother kids led by ten year old kid, the oldest amongst the and so the police were looted. Yes. How long was it before the bodies of those two girls they were found early the next I, but that's a fairly large police on couple of kids missing that often. Not would of course, of course, problems and searching the bay area, but that next morning. The police are out searching bloke is walking. I think with a couple of his nephews or something. Contra Costa specifically, and he finds pot one of the goals protruding from sad that had blood over them during the night. It's not certain whether they're actually buried in a shallow grave or whether or not sanded just blind over the course of the stolen kicking around that off tonight. He found them Ren back to the debate Schiff club alerted the compass from there, and what followed was up until that point. I think the largest manhunt strategy history compass from every way now the killer was never found. But does the physical description of the man who was seen with gills resemble Christopher while? He certainly does. Very very similar to Christopher Christopher was. I think about nineteen at the time. So that fits into that tonight surf you, look, he had long blond hair. He was very tanned. A black obviously spent a little time at the beach and what I know from chatting to other people who had been involved with Walter beforehand. Walled was one as blog gets his driver's license gets a cop. And he spends his ties spare time prowling the beaches. He's always attracted by pages and that reflects ladies career as well Christopher wall. There was a wartime by to me how he's parents. Mitt shoulda dead started his knife had been in the navy for quite some time. He'd been I think chief petty officer or something like that on border destroy which is pill Haba which managed to get out in time. When the Japanese arrives is the US navy. He was from think Alabama or somewhere around in the summer in the deep south. He got away from pill harbor in one place and his ship was involved in a couple of the major battles in the Pacific theater, badly damaged. I think in at one point. The ship eventually comes to Sydney for major repairs as pretty common Anais. He makes an young local go. They get married Philly quickly. And in March nineteen forty five Christopher Waltons, genuine Wilby. The family light of movement wall, quite young. They move around following dead's career naval bases in the US. Sometimes land looked like I think they're in Las Vegas for well Naven slated around the US and folly in the Philippines. Dad, retired from the navy weld as bet in fourteen they come to Sydney and move back into the right area, which is where his mother's family came from. So he he grows into being a teenager as you described toll. I'm hanging around the beaches, a lot has a car and all of that. In nineteen sixty three. He was found to have. Well, there was a charge against him for gang right of of a young girl in the company of two other young men, and it in part reflects how he operates him even back in those very very early dicey seventeen when it happens. He's still juvenile in. The odds of the little he's hanging around freshwater Beachell hobbled which wanted he's got a car. He's got a little Marci's board. So he drives down from rod with a couple of these mites. He's hanging around the front milk. He Sylvan goes in the surf, which is really curious on the edge of the water. But seldom does must kids the northern beaches and those days run down the first thing was bolt fast as fast as possible the water, he's hanging around. He's got two boys to local fellows. And he persuades them. He knows them by just provide the page. He persuades him to get a thirteen year old girl that they knew quite will into these cow though guy for Dr. But a fun. Sheath old anyway, they drive from freshwater and as driving up into the hills behind Sydney's northern beaches. She's getting very very upper Hinchey fish, the gung subway, quite odd. The boys are also interviewed one of them fees ago. He was also getting a little concerned about what was happening. This wasn't what they had planned welder eventually take some to a deserted quarry in beacon hill, just behind the beaches. He must have nine way was going. This is a plan. It wasn't by accident dry from the base to a desert aquarian. Listen executive you going. He sends the two boys away tells them to get out of short and comeback when he calls them. He then writes, the poke it and then the boys come back, and I drive back to the beach. He calmly drops this poor kid who's being attacked back at her parents home and drops the boys back at the beach. So did you go to did she go to police or did she will and one of the auditees just kinda Monto as driving up the the side of the attack? He says to that guy to Queensland and quite I'll give you something to remember me by quite a symptom pasta. She does go to the police the police arrest WALDO, they also risk the two boys. Then they go to the children's code while to spins a brief time in custody a couple of days at the children's produce to be an LPN straight in the city. Not a particularly nice place a rough and tumble die. Anders place for anybody. He spends a couple of days he's eventually pleads guilty. His father the distinguish servicemen to that site gives evidence sinuses completely out of character for my son, fine young, man. Yeah. In a very persuasive block fair enough. It's sonny's talking about it. But the court accepted that on testimony and the testimonies of his father against the testimony of the other two boys end the victim here. Why why would the Korpi moving to accept that? Then from the other boys in the victim Goodall socio economics of the sixties up right in the two boys. And the victim were from spas, slightly more rough and tumble beginnings. Parents possibly weren't quite of the same social standing as the walls. They didn't have access to a good law that Mr Walter also head and Rawls had a psychiatrist giving evidence for him who says nothing wrong with the kid. A one often lever happened again blind, the others NAS class boy who ever reached himself a little and and listen Rooney's whole life and all of that as know. Extrordinary? Yeah. I think there's a couple of consistent comments throughout the that. He'd folded in with his bad crowd from round Brookvale. Not quite not quite cloudy. So it full in with this bed crowd who'd lewd him into it. So not my phone Mr. walled off enough. I when I was talking to the chap who'd been involve is let the exact opposite story Waldorf being the dominant force in this and this pull blog immediately by mid seventies. By Vincent, you know, while to ruin my life. I'll never forget him. What he did that? I I should have done more. I should have stepped up the plot third in your old kit Janet ruined my life. But a completely different pitch. Here was from a pretty rough and tumble background now access to legal counsel. People looked at us the boys who hung around the beach were sort of like little hoodlum. So and his walled of pristine looking good impressive. The psychiatrist? We lost. When we'll go get older, he got married. He was married to a woman friendly. He said he was only married woman for a couple of days, but it turned out. He was married to free for year to me bit about the relationship he formed with his wife's family. This is example, while to rotting his own story, which isn't quite right. He met his prospective wife at Palm Beach where he was looking around there. You had a raid Austin, Healey sports cost. So a bit of a look in those dies will dress will appointed. He was in his good minutes. Impeccable. And he the chameleon wall to he when he meets people in Australia. He plays the American accent up. What happened light it was the reverse? He'd played the strategy set up in the US in this part of ninety sixty seven Palm Beach, summa buck in a red sports gets a lot of attention block with an American accent with thinking. Wow, this is really exotic and he played that up. He sees a family on the beach. Girl, light Tena sister is probably better than not in twenty at that stage where the parents he chats everybody up. He's charming disarming. He office to take the girls the beach the next couple of days. I think this is pretty impressive is go to sports, and he seems like an athlete delightful fellow so passes, the parent taste, I up at some point in the developing relationship, he takes greater interest in the young daughter father into seats and says, no, no, no. So welded as calmly flicks. And focuses on the goal is not twenty. And that's the one that is to become his one who then becomes his wife. The parents don't really like him by that stage. They thinking this guy's a bit of a crepe pretty between the lawns from stuff stipend side. I'd say they get married. He takes from a very nice north shore home, and they live in rod up terribly five but data notch they married for year before she finally gets out in the course of that issue funds at a lot of stuff about him that she really doesn't like. Locals at one point while turns up at the mothers that the family home and tries to lure the mother into an affair and the mother desist tells him you take a hawk which unfortunately puts a little bit of a barrier between mother and daughters will so there's a family dispute have a walled does not really willing to listen to mom and dad, and I said get get out yet. Little accident started to to the door to kind hope, bad luck. Pull thing is first of all she finds it while she's looking through their their pop, and she finds photographs of girls scally Clinton. She's way the hell of as come from. Then she recognizes that some of the biting costumes hers seriously, creepy at one St. he takes to bushland area demands that he can photograph hood, you know, land area. So the whole thing's ringing bells ringing and hid thinking he's doing to them. What he did to me? At one point he's maintaining hook half aura. She finds out the brake lines being tampered with and the cannoli crashes, but it doesn't she just pure luck on another occasion. She comes into the house. And she finds that the gas is being lift on while going outside and close the door guests in those days is fatal. And so she says what's happening. So I don't know anything about this at all. So she firmly believes it onto occasions. He tried to murder and make it look like an accident. So the incident that finally persuaded his wife to get out for good. This is excellent police work actually Walder is wanted by the police for series of sexual assaults on young women in the manly area. He's back doing his stick. He's prowling the beach she's gonna camera on and he saying like give you a career in modeling. So he walks on the beach. He fines pretty young girls who will Gulnara Bill naive. They really looking for something better in the Aleph. He's a bit of glam at one point in stick a couple of years lighters sort of being. Plot that he worked for June deli Watkins who is that site was the biggest modeling agency in the country, which is hitting closer poor. They had no idea who he was. He was just a creep grab the name and put it into his into storytelling. He's seduces while. He Lewis a young nurse to Quadros shit. Besides to get on dressed. She's terrified of him. He had a grocery sexually assaults uses the threat of the photographs to six we have sold it to release. This was signed and curiosities. He didn't have any film camera at the time of hourly. He pulls that stunt. She goes to the place of Anchalee, but she doesn't want to give and mother counsels against not giving evidence and the local magistrate who looks at these things will we can't we can't progress this case unless you go to the victims happy to come forward that didn't deter the to take dues who thought that. I had a major problem on they hands with WALDO. So they got to his house one night. They grabbed him take him in for questioning nine full that they couldn't arrested they'll going to give him a pretty rough time anyway, and they take the WAFA aside until that it's time to pack bags and take it back to a mother do not come back to this block. If that's in February nineteen sixty-nine a couple of days lighter, the wife, a mother and her sister go to the police, and they give detailed statements about what? Walter done to them. How WALDO stoke the youngest sister at some stage sharing the marriage, it's oddly creepy the proposition two. Mother the attempts of murder the police then do with think running shape, which just basically quick up. What everything is more have to do next police bit like that? So you can take off the Knicks tips as they go down. And the hitting that running shade is suspect in one two h killings. Now. I would have thought big news that's four years after the murders. Absolutely. So so he's flagged as a potential suspect yet, right? Does this suspect? And then nothing happened. Now, you'd think that this would send alarm bells ringing everywhere the cop who takes put does right thing it then goes off to the task force dealing with the one two killings. Nothing happens at one stage, and this is bizarre. There's a notion of former place not that says we can't find him. Buddy lives with his parents, you know, with a enroll I'd and eventually around about November of that year of type event they knock on the parents door. Mom says oh, he lifted may completed and Indian quarry. What does it your former police detective, I was a terrible failure of police work? There isn't the absolute Halla. What is it just incompetence or? I think sharing competence it got misfiled. Someone didn't bother followed up laziness and particularly goaling because the two cops who had taken the wife from the house had done the right thing and putting detailed reports that Christopher walled. Separately. Yet. Nothing happened. It goes off to the major investigation mobile looking into the pond debates inquiry and it gathers dust there's a limp attempted fighting game, which quite frankly, embarrasses me to think that that that even recalled that miserable attempt and then months later, they tap on the door. Mom says he's going in my gone to the US in inquiry. It then goes back to a pile and gathers dust full-fat to loan when he was in police custody, he sits the place he's quoted as saying account understand. Why I did it? There is something wrong with me. But I can't explain my actions. He says this at several points on just in police custody to do suspect. I mean other euro psychologist, but it seems like there's an aspect of him. That's fully cognizant of what he's doing and where of its moral implications, and maybe even a tiny bit horrified by what he's doing. What do you think of that? I think that's part of the case. And maybe just my NAS t mind as well easy. Also smart enough to know that he's sitting up possible psych defense all try to get some mitigation. And yes, I know. It was terrible. Yes. Yes. Yes. Was awful. I shouldn't have done it. But I'm driven to do these things. So as you looking at one giving himself some sort of comfort from psychiatric defense or mitigate his penalty when he's convicted it might also be pot genuine. I think maybe it's a combination effect is but Walder's win arrested on multiple occasions, subsequently has always been very clever. It's always contrite caring upset of what he's done for most, blah, blah, blah. Then when he gets to court it's a full on defense. So. That pivot. So when he's in custody, he's all like I went too far. I'm a good person. I shouldn't have done this. And I wasn't quite as bad as it looks. But nonetheless, I went too far. And but then it's different when he's in court. Yeah, he's got a terrier than standing up to represent him. This didn't happen, blah, blah, blah up. It's a strong spirited defense. He puts up so he tries to woo the police a little bit. And then when it gets to cool, it's a very strong defense. It's a complete pivot on him. So as you say he goes to American he's got a US passport. And he goes to the United States. I suppose he's realized at that point. I'm guessing here that you know, he he's now known person known to the police he can't go patrolling around starting beaches like he has been in the past. So he goes to this country called the United States. What kind of off to be set up for himself? Once he got there. He's a he's a tribesman cop. So he starts living with his paternal grandmother in Florida. She's very enthusiastic Baptist. He wasn't that enthusiastic. So. He starts working as a try. It. The building boom is the sorry building is booming in Florida at the time. And he starts to in buy houses, renovate them. Quickly flip them. He's making money. He becomes a affiliate significant builder and property developer lockers, he moves from sort of humble Sydney to solve the rich and famous bit of Miami vice comes into to push on eleven he's got a few other pleasant-looking cows. He's got bling Foday's. He loves a bit of Olbia stuff. So this is this is Miami in the seventies legendarily awash with cocaine indulging in. No. That was quite a stainless by the look of seldom drank didn't do drugs. And but enjoy the very stylish Lafi do go to the best restaurants over the most expensive, stakes example, but certainly not a drug addict. But his his great weakness in those days, he would Harlow to six workers and quite often when he turn up at functions the girl the pretty girl on his arm was acquired by the hour. And he's. Quite notorious for the his veracious hollering of these bills. You gotta in nineteen seventy six Tober nine seventy six. He's arrested for six assaults of a sixteen year old girl. And he's while he's in custody. The two reports on him psychological reports on what have I reveal completely Nutley conflicting opinions to medical professionals, which is bizarre one doctor. Who's a psychiatrist says there's nothing wrong. Bit of an aberration went off AB. Rod the other one is color. Just unfortunate cold, Dr Bouza and Dr booze a. Looks at Waldron thinks that he should be institutionalized. He needs a structure in his life, his disordered sex offender, and this is a man who should be fully in an institution getting serious, mental health assistance. Cases dismissed the prosecution just wimps out on for one of a better time and WALDO man who one doctor says should be locked y for well Wilkes out of the cool Kuru completely untouched. Online and on the listen. This is conversations with Richard Fidler on ABC radio. You can subscribe to the conversations podcast to find out more just head to ABC dot net. They'll tell you slash conversations. We were saying about how again, and again, he slipped through the things that traditional system is that some kind of chameleon that ability to defeat the normal instincts that a coupla yourself might have or anyone else in judicial system might have s to a likely Fender. Yeah. There's a curious moment, I suppose in policing and wear the headset on the back of your neck. Oh, you just look at a plug and having talked him thing. This isn't variety. You know, why? But you don't you think to yourself? This is not adding up while it was remarkable in that he managed to take away that concern. There's a. Minute in two separate instances of just opera publish this Boca young lady from Adelaide rang me and she said, I knew in in Florida. I'd spend a couple of months with him in the pool SOLAS being tortured forever and a day since that she had not one Ciller of suspicion about but flip across Florida. There's a old detective who was in involved in these lead manhunt Kotome knives. Tomes watt us to monogram do monogram and walled ahead all his car racing. Uniforms, monogrammed and Thome would come hunt for lunch. Most days Ghana knees hip badge, and he's poke Holly, experienced take and he'd made wall to regulate home. And he said, you know, not one moment was he ever even remotely suspicious. Maybe maybe too many people rely on their instincts and such Mattis. I mean, all you have to do is look at the evidence in front of you in a case like this. And surely the needs to be someone saying just look at the evidence. When it comes to someone like WALDO agree entirely, and in in in part with wall got to wear to his Motors Indus career is because he just fill through the cracks in the system every possible moment, not because he was particularly clever, but because I suppose impart is jurisdiction didn't dope to jurisdictions. If you've left her, for example, went to America was case closely Aleta when he came back to strata, we'd lost the original file didn't appear. So when he's arrested Manley Ninety-two for doing exactly what had been doing every real the investigating detective will completely and utterly unaware that he was a suspect in Wanda another mistake. He's just he had extraordinarily good fortune, which is misfortune versus. He you involuntarily, visiting a psychologist in Florida. And that's kind of interesting ideas. Well, he actually actually there's a kind of theory that's around more recently that says soccer pets is sometimes drawn to psychotherapy. Because they learn all sorts of things about how to mimic a normal human being from that process. You suspect. That's what's going on here. I think it's very good point. I think it does. He he's in long term therapy, which obviously didn't work. He is. I think learning from the conversation they having the therapist. I think thinks she's getting a compensation from wall to wall. In fact, leaving the conversation maybe comes in with Sirak hilas always notion of dominance control is he by guide psychotherapist controlling that relationship. So he's getting far more back from it. And she's getting from him, obviously relationship didn't work out terribly. Well, so is it the controls the notion of dominance is it is how can I hold my stick bitter strikes again in a shopping mall in Florida using proxies some teenage girls to help appear twins. That's that's very creepy. That is they they would approach potential victim. These goes acting on his behalf. Do that that sort of I suppose to Festus Walder first of all Walter was unusual in that as an opportunity to kill Z. Was he liked to get doubles? And that's why the one debate similarity strikes me so hard. It's unusual to golf the two targets symbol tiny the physics of complex. But this notion of Lou using the twins. I think the twins were just convenient for him on the day. And he would use an threes and talk he always used other people to try Lou victims to him he'd snags I one and then in some cases, he would then use that victim to go out and get victims of he preferred. So it was almost the marketing tool for this. Pretty girl is working with Macy's my assistant. And it also reduces the level of concern about what's happening. So if if you see this blood camera business cards, an attractive young go working with him as part of the stick you'll less likely to be cynical about it. You're probably tacky. Why that? Resistance and the desolate career dominates rather new thinkings creep. At a December ninety two he comes back to a strike you for a visit a flying. Visit and begins his resumes. These behavioral mainly bake, and again assaults too young girls fifteen year old girls again, and he's picked up by the police, and he spends news eve in a cell, and it seems like the police have dead to rights at this point the police terrific job within twenty four hours of arriving in Sydney Walder's prowling Manny bake again business cards. Cameron plice looking million dollars American exit ramped up, so this quite exotic creatures prowling the beaches the police do terrific job. The the parents of the two young girls drag drag deduction drag the goals are not hugely willing to give evidence at that point. The parents take into police station. They told the truth I turn out to be fantastic witnesses. They don't take a backward step. It's two of them. And they're also a couple of friends mile friends are going to the beach with that die who see the two bills being lured by this black goals. Tell them to take a hike. It's this goes in the photography business where excited this oak leery about wall actually, grab a cabin follow him and take down his registration, and that's how Walder's cooled. So. So this all this strong, very strong testimony against against WALDO. How does it get out of this one? Well, he's granted bile. That's amazing. Yes. Beneficiaries some good fortune. The the police have a terrific. I don't want him build either. I think this guy's Kirk. The magistrate is persuaded by the I think there's a significant bio put up in bet four hundred thousand dollars put up a house and some cash the magistrate is satisfied that wall will come back the police opposed bile. Now, that's the old wounded stuff has never surfaced. No one knows about it. While to goes away comes back in. I think ran about the oldest of notch ninety three there's a defendant may they didn't have committal proceedings which were common Anais dies with I test the evidence, quote, strongly one of the young girls gives evidence, and she is remarkable. She betters. The lawyer. I think in some cases, she's she has a hot tub in the wooden spokes which is Philly Cole Moniz dies, but she's strong. She's brought she's capable and she sticks to store, and she tells it, and she knows it pretty well. I think wild leaves the court at that Potter committal proceedings thinking, I've got some serious trouble coming why why this is not going to be bullied into giving up. Who family terrific and the young fella's are wedding to give evidence as will the committal proceedings agenda because I ran out of time the two days that a lot of here it all these he's going to run out into four or five at least unanticipated by the prosecution defense really running this hot in the hub to Shaikh the prosecution before it goes to court and then while the heads back to the US again on bail. He's allowed to leave the country in the middle of this like in the middle of the middle hearing. It's extremely that seems extrordinary it's surprise it surprises me you'd I suppose that in those is that balance out the new here would be about nine months later. So it will be unrest keeping in jail at the same time. They've and the magistrate thinks to himself the gos- turned up before my cynical pose, you know, if welded and come back what a good idea, but on my part. Yes. Back in the United States. Seems he goes on this this rampage the kind of ramp awfully. Motorist one this time. This is will be on sexual assault is torture involved. We don't even know how many women he killed new. We done to since this. Now, we know there about non side, but they're more there to victims, for example on identified for over thirty years just bodies found discarded in forests who in the last couple of years of being found. One of them is an identified. Thanks today. So the family can at least get some degree of finality one of them is different Walter and the other young girl ago called Sherry Lynn bowl is found up in a forest in Buffalo New York about fastened fifteen hundred mile fifteen hundred kilometer drive from Florida, and it is Holly probable that. She is another world victim the police up. They had no idea where should come from. Just a missing kid though, were stimulated to think she was from somewhere else because up in the middle of the winter. She had tan lines. But it took thirty odd years and contemporary. I take -nology to actually identify who. She was I I wonder given the finally the serial failure of the judicial system to deal with effectively gave him sense of impunity because he goes on this rampage, and there's a series of women who are -ducted ripe and dumped it doesn't even bother to bury them dumps them. I wonder this. What's that come through my read that the his feeling impunity? And all a sense of this is one loss rod because I know it's starting to. It's starting to come down on me. I think the sense of impunity. Absolutely. This is a guy. He would literally leave court one day after getting away with again obeyed on probation saying onto it again woke out the door with entice Ray offending. He didn't get into any form of message the quote ratio. He just didn't get the fact that he'd been arrested didn't seem to Bulger him. He just business as usual. I think on his rampage. It's for the US. The only thing that stops me suggesting was one loss. Big trip is because he actually tried to Skype tried to get to Canada, which is where unfortunately, we're sorry full truly where he died. He was is. It's a bizarre trip. It head Vert on the way planning. He abducts two bills. The thirties closing in led by provident vista Guida from for the Kenyan family, the second Gilder disappeared a girl he'd actually propose marriage to and then abducted, a some months later. She's never been found. But the parents are providence vista who doesn't bloody good job and puts it together. And he thinks the last person to see Walter sorry. The last bit is Christopher wilder. He takes it to a service station where WALDO meter while. She's so well made so well, she's pulling some pitcher into account the attendant identifies. Plug is pulling up and coming to token saying we've got to get to the airport. And that's the last time. Anyone of biff? The providence instigated puts this together. The authorities again are very sludge. React. There's also an investigative journalist writing about disappearing girls round rice treks, which is where walled was upright in those days doesn't name him. But I was also a catalyst for the run Walden. Decides at Florida again is to wolf so he hits way, and he starts ducting. And in mass cases, motoring bills from Florida across to Los Angeles. And then from Los Angeles, he does bizarre second half of the road trip. He drives through sort of hitting no face to the woods Canadian Buddha with all that. He's driving enormous distances picking up women motoring them dumping them old driving them. He's compote for an enormous distances what's this of the car in all of this fame? Do you think he's like a lot of serial killers? They love the Kaw him as his home. It's his palace. It is buzz. He's behind the wheel. He loves to drive and his victims of pretty much incapable of getting away from him. So he's cars sort of powerful Homebase for him about the one that did get away from him the one who four back. Yeah. Linda Grover one of the early attacks. Actually, she's grabbed by him after Dausi's normal photographer scam in a mole in Florida. He takes her across the state border into. I think Georgia. Which eventually cheesy FBI to get involved with this. We'd jurisdictional nonsense a US have they finally get involved. He takes it to a motel in the middle of nowhere. He six salsa tries to he super glues is clutch. She's been to keep a bit of an up. So she could see what's going on smart, Stu gutsy go. He's super lose. Her is together. What's says, she look it is that what is he because he doesn't like to make people's guys does he's always an interesting point. Meg actually, one of the detectives who did spoke to who. She said the anything disconcerting Walter she'd never look you in the I I think the superglue was part of that also had this kit of bits and pieces where in which pot of torture kit. Leave live at the she sees a moment when Walder's vulnerable this, very smart go and she goes for immense. She gives him a wagon the head, and then she tries to escape while he's disabled on the floor. She goes to the front door realizes that she talking to get out of that. Because smoked so she bolt. To the bathroom still barely able to see anything and she locks the door behind and at once type screaming blue murder. No one comes. She drops into the bathtub because she knows while to has a gun, and she he might shoot at a says, she's in the upper safety, she still screaming carry on which is going to be so little headed under those circumstances. She's extraordinarily. And no one comes nothing. Nothing about a half an hour afterwards. She's running out of breath. She and she's feeling she's Baid badly beaten. His will she creeks that awful moment for this. Poor kid opening the bathroom door to see whether Walter is on the other side took a lot of guts to do that. And she pays for the dorm walls gone what she heard him. He ran away in other way. He just bolted welder. I think is like these blogs a complete cowed. So when you fight back the powder, Nimick shifts very fast, the movie that he's running these different movie. Exactly. Right. So. Wall does actually done a runner. He's grab some of her clothing souvenirs, which is just the craziness. He's gone. The pool kid wraps himself in the tower a bed linen bangs on the reception, the motel Nomo swept, and they they know she's there. They don't want to she runs out in the street and trust to run of trust away done passing truck. Truckdriver knows buzz a semi clad kid rep in shade. It's pretty commonplace. No one's interested. She eventually manages to swayed them to call the cops and fortunate as sheriff's deputy driving pasta, very close. Great people. She scooped up by the deputy. She's looked up to she's taken the hospital where she meets a wonderful mercy spent Thanh talking through it. And she credits that mom that nurse of citing sanity. But all of a sudden Walder's become a suspect in a national kidnapping case. One of the things that really is the most astonishing story for me was that he formed a strange connection with one of these potential victims wasn't data victim teena Marie rec- co who was brutalized her and she was going to be victim. But then he made her eat kind of he's thrall allure for another woman, and she consented to this. It's a very strange relationship. Now, the police were quite emphatic in -fensive her in this matter, and they're. Said she had something like Stockholm syndrome where she'd fall into some strange Petten of sympathy with this his pulling human being. What do you make that story? It's still the one I scratched by head about. It's I think he's quarter brutalized quite a number of days, and he had this routine, and he did it with teena Marie as the other girls. It was almost like learning fries by rote conditioning them. And it gives them something to utilize respond me this way. You will call me, sir, repeat after me, this repeat after me that specific right? I mean, that's just I mean really needs to be called, sir by his victims. I just this. But this is part of the conditioning presses to break down any fight. They had in them, and he's got teen in the car from Los Angeles all the way through to Boston a long trip. She at one point is being used on willingly. But still does it because she's terrified if you don't do this. Okay. Now, she's used as bite in a couple of instances where he's picked up girls. And she's continuously brutalized he'll have her and other girl in the motel room, brutalizing them. But at the end of it he gives her a ticket back to Los Angeles. This is the bizarre thing and sort of he plays out this other movie, which is this kind of romantic Bonnie and CLYDE type on the climate that kind of pondering crime, farewell, we've been naughty outlaws together. And it's had to completely oblivious to the. Chaos. Ities happened. Right. He's he's watching the entire thing unfold. Every morning on the news television. And yet he decides she's actually being present win. He's attempted to motor gold called wilt, and we actually shot to death a woman simple Bielby Walter to. And then he drives across all of New York state across to Boston takes to Logan airport. Buzzer ticket gives us some cached by some food, and has almost in his sick mind, a touching farewell to a colleague and whole friend. So she she's evolved she survives, and she doesn't. How would you know? Why? So how did Christopher Walder's rampage funding come to an end? He don't dropped -tainer off at the Boston put he then headed north towards into New Hampshire at the great, US woods, incredibly remote place. And he got two little town colebrook, which is about ten fifteen from the Canadian border middle of nowhere and popped into get some directions and some petrol the local giddy service station by this Daij. He's all over the news. News. Up until about a dial two beforehand. The FBI thought he was still in Los Angeles. It wasn't until the parole donate wilt stumbles out of a forest with stab wins. They realize in fact on the other side of the country. This is a big national news story. Yeah. It's it's pounding does everything even carry Braun or put it on for the seven network enough. So it's a big international story and these two local troopers, implying close driving through Cobra. They've just been to lunch oddly, knock use they drop the mites off at the local police station, and they stop, and they see this guy, and that it happens occasionally policing the moment you look at the guys click while them into click will so one of the detectives got out of the car and headed to mothers, right young for hill. This look collect Clint Eastwood quite intimidating chap. So they having they've been have scuffle. He's dragging welder out of the cow. Walled has got a very large handgun in the scuffle wall. Shoots himself twice in the chest. And that's the Christopher WALDO. And he dies and the of the Getty service station. Kobuk New Hampshire. To me a bring this up again, the multiple fabulous here of the judicial system. And in the United States, notwithstanding some of the excellent police over doing some excellent work here, which nonetheless, it filter, the hands of the of the court soul off whatever reason, but it's all of peace with the story. You just Linda Grover who's who's running out of this tell room she's been assaulted by serial killer. She's she's wrapped in a blanket or a towel. She screaming a no one's paying attention. It just seems like women on getting support here either. They're not being bullet testimony's not being believed the the criminals getting off with that slip across the no-one's investigating. Thoroughly is not enough zeal in the investigation of this. Your former police officer things need better. Now. I mean, do we pay more attention to these things? We more ready to hear the testimony we more. We'd better at joining the dots in these. I think we are better. Joining the dots. We communicate better the gripe problems in the world case was at known was talking to each other US state local federal jurisdictions, no one talks to each other. And we had in Australia. It's improved dramatically in the last decade. One of the great things. Why crime go comfortably in this country is because police police organizations didn't talk to each other. They didn't share information. It was sort of. We'll keep this twist sills route and say, hey, guys, come in sit del. Let's get the soda. It was always that sort of turf wars between police, but then there's also this. I've awaiting too often the courts of said, no young man presents. Well, let's ruins life. Let's let. That's some slack here. There's just too much of that going on here. Yeah. Look it still happens to and I think these as it's done with a little bit more evidence rather than his dad presents his will represented, and he was possibly looted or by someone who isn't quite as well presented. I think that's become more socially level. But it's always a concern. The courts for first offenders still will try and give it a grave leniency in the hope that the doing the right thing. And in my case, the hope that if they do their own thing they drag back in bloody quickly you get one chance. Don't screw it up. How about the victims that survived? What you know? Then have they getting on? Linda, grow is managed to Soto out. She's as extraordinary human being, and she's she talks about what happened to her. She's come to grips with. The other girls Awdal that haven't spoken to be honest tenure Seco, I think I have a brief interview to the FBI a long time ago and has got on with a life. This is something she doesn't touch donate wilt again and other remarkable girl who saved his self Walder's stabbed her and dumped her in some bushes. She uses her close to make a twenty K, and it's a roic. She's she hasn't spoken about it at all you hope that they've managed to put at least never forget this is like the victims of crime at one extreme of it and you'll life with just changes forever. I have she's got on. With hasn't spoken since. Just finally the the one debates minutes, we live in another era technologically. Now is that it's such a long time ago. Now, I mean is it possible to five more than fifty years is a possible to use DNA evidence to make a stronger connection there between and those Menendez tragedies of wonder is that they the police beautifully preserved everything they have a same and sample from one of the girls. They have Kip that, but unfortunately, appears to been lost in one of the little bar trees. And that once like inside with Christopher bald is whether isn't, but it's got lost in a great morass of blood slide somewhere. What about you? What do you think? Now. I mean, it just how do you reflect on this story? So talking. I think while familiar while one of the most pulling creatures I've ever looked at the why he pride on since way targeted innocence is just describe for you never get him out of your head. But I suppose in pot and Ronnie about it to the Kenyan family one of the catalysts thirty five years later one consistent line from the MS, you know, if if at some stage, we can find where is which just want tonight. So we can visit. Thank you so much nabs book is called the snapshot killer. The shocking true story of predator and serial killer Christopher wilder from Sydney's beaches to America's most wanted. Today's conversation with Duncan will be available soon as a podcast ABC dot net. They used conversations website on which and five LA thanks for listening. You've been listening to a podcast of conversations with Richard Fidler. For more conversations interviews, please go to the website, ABC dot net dot AU sush conversations. Discover more great ABC podcasts. Live radio and exclusives. On the ABC. Listen up.

United States Christopher WALDO Festus Walder Florida Sydney Christopher wall Christopher wilder Bielby Walter ABC Australia Mr Walter Christopher Christopher Linda Grover Duncan Los Angeles Richard Fidler murder ABC FBI
Deeper Digs: And in the End: The Last Days of the Beatles with Ken McNab

Pantheon

2:03:29 hr | 8 months ago

Deeper Digs: And in the End: The Last Days of the Beatles with Ken McNab

"Hi this. Is Ellen. And you're listening to pence. Impulse that. On. Spring. Enroll archeologists. Christian swayed. John Jay. Talking. Now. On with the show end in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make diggers. One of my favorite lyrics of all time. Of course, that is the last words spoken on the last. Beatles album ever made. Well. Yes. See I'm leaving out that the supposed to be left out her majesty that is and in a minute, we will get to know our guest today to have all of this make sense. Ken mcnabb with his new book and in the end the last days of the Beatles. So hold tight. Okay business. Well guess what I'm on vacation, and since I'm recording this ahead of time. Not. Much business. Well, just a thanks for listening. And sharing with your friends. We've been getting a lot of mail these days and are. Extremely humbled by your love and attention and affection. For all the work we're doing a around here at Pantheon podcasts at you know a lot from roll archaeology and yes even some from deeper digs here. So please keep the cards and letters coming. Okay. Three real quickies keep telling friends. Let me tell you that is working. Every month, we get a larger and larger audience and I know for a fact, it's due to you guys actually. Doing the work for us by spreading the word. It's really incredible. We don't have a big budget for marketing. Eh, just yet and You know this is all been organic and and it just I don't know what to say it's it. It's very humbling. It's very nice. Of, course you can support the project financially at Patriotair Dot. Com backslash rock and roll podcast, and now we have a one time donation site. A lot of people have complained about patriots. They don't like it It's A. Monthly type of charge They want a one time donation we've suggested pay pal doesn't seem to be resonating very well. So we have this new thing it's called Coffee Dot Com backslash Pantheon and actually that's Kofi K. Dash F I dot Com. Backslash Pantheon. And it's it's a cup of coffee. You know if you feel like a tip. Back bias a cup of Coffee Hell even if it's a one dollar Dunkin donuts coffee. Dunkin donuts coffee costs about I. I don't really go to. Dunkin donuts. So I don't know. But. Hey I'll I'll. I'll take Dunkin donuts coffee if you want. Anyway If. Is Interested in our investment opportunity, I've talked about the last couple of weeks send an email to rock and roll archaeology project at g mail dot. com. That's probably going to come to an end here fairly shortly So we just wanted to put that out there for everybody who listens if they are interested because. We're about ready to go into. We've been soft launch for a couple of months now, and we're about ready to go mainstream here fifty shows hd podcasting. We've got some big news coming up a very shortly with a very large platform and probably I'll be able to enhance it when I get back. So keep an ear open for that. Okay. That's it very short and sweet this week on the business. Let's get into it. Give me. You give me off. Go, she should you Feel. I only give you my. Committee. Stick. A. yes. You never give me your money written by Sir. Paul. thought to excoriate the devil in their mitts manager. Allen. Klein. Without doubt one of the big reasons for the demise of the ban in nineteen, sixty, nine and nineteen seventy. not the only one for sure But we will see a big factor in the eventual demise of the FAB four. with us today is Ken mcnabb who has written a very detailed look at the final year of the ban end in the end the last days of the Beatles. It is a month by month account of the disastrous nineteen sixty-nine for the ban, and while nineteen seventy is really the death nail of the Fab four most of that year nineteen seventy was more the actual train crash. The Year of sixty nine was where the wheels really start to fly off. Yes McCartney self interview published on April Tenth Nineteen Seventy is considered the historical moment most historians point to as the official end though some others. Point to December thirty first of that year when Maka Sues John George and Ringo. As the end I kind of choose that because I, you know. Look I do think some mostly the public who were completely ignorant of the internal events held that continue to hold out. Hope there was no internet that you weren't getting real time information of you know I it was a very opaque behind the scenes. Oh, most of what we know comes out much later. But let's face it. Once you sue your bandmates highly unlikely a kun-bae is in the future. and as we know that really was the end of the four never held the stage together again. Though I wonder if John had not been murdered if they would have done. So at some big important event. It's a question that will be asked of Mr mcnabb here in a minute. were there other reasons for the death of perhaps the single greatest cultural phenomenon of the Twentieth Century Oh hell? Yes I mean. Certainly Yoko or more specifically what John expected from the other three when it came to Yoko. is plenty of noise to cause rifts. and. While she was an easy target to pin things on early as time or on. We found her situation was really only the tip of the iceberg as they say. George realizing he should be treated better as a songwriter is another big situation. As we know he goes on to do some incredible work post Beatles and let's face it his contributions on the last album road are stellar. Well Really You, know all of the the individual shine after words. In various incarnations throughout the seventy s and that is great But of course, the sum of their parts and all of what could have happened had they soldiered on is. Always. Subject to debate if you will but I also think just growing up as men and wanting their own identities in the universe is a huge factor I mean we all grew up and life changes. You know a band is like a gang especially when you're young. But then you get married, you settle down you have kids. In the end up getting tired of that other marriage, you know the one with several other people in it and let me tell you. It's hard managing all all of that. Well, at least until the kids are grown and midlife comes and you desperately want back in the gang. Anyway. All of these issues are addressed in an investigative manner by our guest today who is a journalist after also no surprise. Ken. mcnabb is a lifelong Beatles fan and well respected journalist with Scotland's evening times. He lives in Glasgow with his wife and children. And this is his second book on the SCOUSERS who changed the world the first very appropriate title being the Beatles in Scotland. which was published in two thousand eight. All right. Let's get into it. Let's dig in as we say around here. Here is Ken mcnabb. Wants those away. Once those away. Get. Home. Sleep. We'll see. June. Welcome to deeper digs, Ken mcnabb, how you doing today Thank you very much having the. Oh Of course of course, I think your your coming to us from way up in the northern reaches of Scotland. Yeah, normally limited based in. Scotland White I away from my own sort of. Looking Advani missed the AETNA. Definition of Scotch mist. Distance. Early. On the noise. Nice. Together we. My and I up in. In a waste in Scotland Fife. Nice to be. occupied. Waiting to. Oh. Yeah. I Bet I. Bet everybody deserves a little vacation now and then sell. Well, let's let's dive into your book and in the end. So I guess the first question might be and and you know this is a sort of an obvious one. A lot of people have asked Apple. Let's get your opinion on it. If John wouldn't have been murdered in nineteen eighty dea think the fab four would ever return to record and tour again. I very much dirty because she. Very. The loss of discussions over a ten years old the binds break-up. Discussing. Being. Saying, you might have to on the same page. was. Never was an occasion where all the. Good. Reasons for about a mini fussing to the members. When they split up officially in ninety. Seven Terrible raise of. Tenable legacy of feeling between them. because. They had been they helping mushroom growing and say it'll useless so long. It's inevitable the. People Alive School in different directions this year off in different directions you get older they form new associations you on ships. Are, there was never up point and it did take some time those winds to heal. And and even in the. member. Will think of. Songs been involved with that Benedetti fight. To Pike and. Regional disowns keep the county. Goes. How ill may pointed to each other through the songs in the Lennox on song the winds took a long time to. Have Your sleep just probably run of venomous. Estimate Nationally did take some time for them to reconcile to put enough distance. Bluewater between them all and then for them to at least have some kind of. Friendship in a sense but attain against in nineteen seventy five, which is not along. When you consider binds nowadays. Private to make an album. Nineteen seventy five join Lennon's reconcile that you go into a game they have a son coach join and he says well. Guys. Hop taking five years to look after to give my son my against and I neglected to give all son because early on. So it was never any point Christian where only on the same page. Quite. Quite beautiful because. The money. But together. Using. But. They've been thrown all kinds of money at them. Including thirty, five, hundred dollars from Lorne Michaels, which was probably the closest to the the the the the the serious offer that they might have actually followed up on. That was the only one that that maybe. Just. Because of the joke of it and being goons, fans and Saturday night live being the next iteration of the goons if you will they might have. That Because oil McCartney actually watching together Mill Chris Uber. George showed up the next week and said, okay, let me have the check in novels. For All four walters take my piece of it. I think. Jerry's. Yeah I don't I. Don't know if I agree can I mean certainly you're right in the seventies it would not have happened but you know, I, think of live aid and in nineteen eighty five and I think if John had not been murdered that that that's sort of cause of fits right in their wheelhouse for all four of them and they could have been. Persuaded to come back together at least for a one off for something like that and you know by the time you get into the mid eighties and certainly into the nineties and definitely ended the two thousand. You start to see some of these bands at had a you know a lot of money at the end what have you get back together because of installs Ya. A side of things and the reality that you know especially for these four guys a while they did some some great stuff on their own each of them individually, and we'll talk a little bit about that in the in a bid They together knew that you know the you know being a musician myself. You know there's sometimes you find magic and it's hard to replicate that and let's face it. I I don't think there's any four musicians that have achieved more magic than these four guys. Mean John. Abadie strong sentimental street. And it would come down to join. I mean, sure. Oh, definitely would have come down to John Yeah. Yeah Paul would probably done it. A Ringo heartbeat would have done it and George probably would've begrudgingly went along. Don't have been. Reluctant conscripts by. Atlanta had leaned on it off then an. Interesting scenario about Liberia the hostile this. will go F- would be assuaged enough to. To convince them. This was the proper platinum. This was the right car toys. But I am not quite convinced Nude Donna and John Lennon. Late, the idea of them be maneuver into doing it I mean it was always talked likely. To. Dentist conversations with Jordan Johnson. But then of course when it came down to hottest. Didn't complete. The Minute Gambill said that Will Cohen get your note saying. That that point artisans senator antenna kicks in thinks why are we going to do deep wholesome and Y- on this late? Aldrin's. Now no your. Without John Impossible You know luckily you know the the they get together for anthology and do some things like that in and of course, we got free as a bird out of that with the three of them but you know, yeah, I, mean, you think you know the you know let's face it the precursor to live eight was concert mingle dash and You know that that kind of sets the template for that. So if John was around, you know they certainly. Wouldn't have done it for the money you know led Zeppelin's a another example who was thrown gazillions of dollars and they didn't do it mostly because Robert wanted to go and do something other than So there is something to be said that maybe you know one of them would have said, no I'm off this or or they would have continued to you know to have their own lives or their inabilities like John did for for between seventy-five and eighty. Two rage Sean in those very formative years. So you know like us with rock and roll archaeology, you come at it from a Fan's perspective. So let's get your introduction to the Beatles and how you became obsessed enough to write not one, but now two books on the Fab Four. Well. First of all, you music as a teenager. She always play somebody said to me not so long ago can did you ever see the Beatles live and it was? Absolute and How do you think I? showed. The sexiest. But you know kind of like oh mean my music tastes. At but always combined beachell simply to the strength of the songs. The strength of the past, but also for me. Story. Story of US four guys and how the lakes. And took linked into Twain Ed from that point is like a four star in the Constellation and how did you start of IT Elaine? Of Food of them came together to create. Unprecedented bind if you wait. So I was always interested in I was always interested in the and story of the bind as always longest. Show an such. Gao such a year. What was each album each album being progressively better than the last level. I just need to grow as individuals and as a group. WHAT PD, on. The Dick Change the world you know wasn't fought to young member. But. Books, I look. SEC historical analyses on. The Beatles jeans, the world form the better sue them using at night chain I I think we should open thankful for that. You know I don't what happen again where a bind sunshine a cultural influence on the entire planet not just young people but but you know older generations you the only bind in history which even know still have that crush Many. And it was funny because if you listen to the songs is a huge leak. So something white safely example somewhat, she loves you set up an alleged. always always amazed at the dose of. I saw rates US recessions as individuals and story even today I. Think Story is credible. Like this Kendall Oval that you could make up. I agree when we started the original rock and roll archaeology the first podcast one of my questions that I wanted to answer which had been, you know a my most of my life was okay. Do Two of the greatest musical geniuses of the twentieth century grow up less than one mile apart from each other that. That there's something about genius. What does that mean? What how, how does one accomplish that and of course, you know what what you come to find out is that you know the first is the emotional connection that John Paul had we with each other the loss of their mothers around the same time and that created a bond like no. Other the timing itself of them just showing up right at the moment the willingness to put in the effort, the ten thousand hours in Hamburg or what have you, and then the luck of the draw of you know getting hooked up with somebody like George, Martin a headmaster who was perfect for them that helped them grow as individuals and as musicians. Journey. Tradition which is. pitted. On the way you know all these magical events or these touchstones, the opposite to she sense cheap. Feet. As? Growing up. So coast each other and forming up on because it was so young. Definitely and John Lennon. Interesting. Israel. I think you know the dynamic between a John Lennon would know have choice McCartney as created auto unless you believe something to offer and I think that they know that that is a partnership of couse sense. and. Not. Wait until. Of course, you know things slightly we use sweat we come off the wagon towards the end. I was leading to have been talking about it being a fantastic story. To individuals come together to form this partnership, this alliance which changed. Now. Well, I, also, think you know unlike a lot of bands in these guys were workhorses they you know they the the studio was their office. They literally would come into work every day. You don't get a cup of tea and you get to work You know like any other you know blue? Collar. Or white collar job They would just come in and do that. They didn't get lost in They never lost that that aspect of it it just constantly punching the clock punch out and they treated a little bit more like you know traditional songwriters You know you'd find in the Brill building who recognize if you know this is it's a job and all the accoutrements stardom and fame and things like that are less important in they constantly seem to understand that better than most. Yeah. In a sense you touched on the. Humber, I don't say the Honda watching bind in history than the Beatles. You must've been but. As well. All these. Financing up stone finessing the. Voice to thanks and then and then rain the. Make a become A. Cooper recording behind you're talking about what to albums. Yeah. For singles. Yeah Maybe once become a bit when then you go the films. Nothing. Ever. Ninety two. Trump or creativity into such a short. Yeah. Has Seven Years Yeah Yeah. Say. Mushroom and say this whole news. New York. This is quite the norm for Bein institute five years to make an album. Jake socks what it takes. These guys were relentless in the Esi and I think you can. Always, it the. Comment from buying instant anybody said to the show ended he's go week off next week. McCartney Bullshit Vashem. Tassie we can buy and I'll. They had. A week off from tooting and that's That's also to be find Chretien to albums a year. A year. Once, America won't you own your? European tres, I, mean. Eh. World Tours Yeah Known Stock Trade No. I in between old idea, you have to look to the next album to the next single. Yet. recorded. And it was landless an I don't Hey. I know. Nervous systems together in the fish and I think maybe having a little guys in the bond ilk. The four right guys all seem to balance each other out. You know I I've said, and go to my grave saying without the addition to Ringo. There's no Beatles That was that final piece that just created not only abounds personality in an some some wisdom of that Ringo brings, but you know this unique plain style which adds to this unique soundscape that they They are able to lean on throughout the the the years of recording together you a huge lingo financial you know he does. Backdrop noon again. But Sleep full shades of the same script. Christian and if you remove one say. Doesn't walk. Now falls apart. And that now Django thank you y'all had I could possibly. Can yes and you you hear great dramas. Ken's born him when he was alive and. Neil pair on and on. L. One of them a abide were to see Ringo Starr is a drama and the overall. And I think bingos not bengals thumbing the beachell. UNINVENTIVE simply. So many ASTA fall. You only have to listen to the driving tomorrow never for chemicals. Yes absolutely. Certain That so it's not seem we've got. To the point. Then he Never bind. Said tomorrow never news was of any fos. Modem. Translate? Because of that jump. Suits very interesting renova he's. Huge wrangle. Without. Ringo doesn't walk. Now. Without Ringer a work. His quick word from her sponsors, we'll be back in a bit. And now that to the program show. This is your second book on the Beatles. I being the Beatles in Scotland. So what did you discover in the first book and the Foster was Expected after they took a toll the book. Just seen base slightly. John Lennon's cousin Stanley Parkes. Lifts giblets another. Glasgow, so I wound up. Regular. Phoned up on, he said come on on. The my son, who is only sexy. On on, we had a long conversation of join on and he was such only mine. You know he had on on a father abortionists. Pet of joins duties. On them. Enjoy, your show me all these. And obviously. You know always script. Ole God damn. Chemo we on his house thinking well, Coochie do a book about connections to Scotland. Because join us to go up to the North's go for these holidays. West Stanley is. On the way to be the whole thing began to teach sheep. And I was one of the things one of the do was, would it be possible because? The People don't know that the bathos to is a bind wasn't humbug any that it was in Scotland. For I'm bookings he did a very small shirt of Scotland with a single, johnny gentle. On. Oh, that's as the backing band. And I I say oh Percent Name. Would it be possible to get an eyewitness account of every. The ever plead in Scotland. Including these guys where there? No. Can't. Have something wait. Geeks I go twenty I witnesses. So I thought that was an interesting an interesting coincidence, but you know the vet. These people I clean crucial elements. All Guy Code Ninety eight whose ascension. Cleaned on the one of the bastions of love me do because George Martin Van Gogh, right. An interesting show to Donovan the sixty four, sixty folks. Also comes from Glasgow. So he he went to India with them. And again, it can do to context and I witness accounts Susu away you've been able to together a video lots of connections to skull my county of course, had a farm in Scotland Yep. I eventually links called. He's. Vache. NAMED CHECKING OFF Scottish places. So enemy I pictured advanced on a slowly ounce rail and I was. I never expected to. Not. Speaking rejoins cousin. To pitching the whole thing together. So it was good. And? Maybe, eight years later Su Board. Could I is another. Problem is. Many. That assume any now? Oh, the most rick written about Bandon history. There's no two ways you know to try and bring something new to the table voice going to be an enormous challenge. By New I did thank him nineteen sixty to get from. Scotland to blow it in the northern the template. On. Everything. This is this is. A heavy lift I mean, what do you think it was necessary to write another book on the Beatles and especially about you know their last year's ban not not happy times and you know dea think you've got to untie the Gordian. I don't know whether you ever tied to go the and it came to nineteen sixty nine. Brazil, obey. Chiaki and very young to you all. Know. You. Know the beginning to come off the wagon. Increment in the studio. WENT TO BE? Stations Benny. The way. A new and innovative police passing or professional. Joint John Lennon was like Keno Top. Tenacious. Because you know. Problem with drugs and he was unhappy is bind situation. Novel conflicts taking place in the background. Such as you mentioned yourself as a haven, west is a heavy. But to try. To the walls. So that you sat committed that heaviness so that you've been able to shine some light and shade on the whole. Doing Glen I mean amongst Pete Yeah. Yeah? Yeah. Yeah. The book is not all doom and gloom you first of all, you break it up. You know over the twelve months. Each chapter is is is a month in the in the the life in the Beatles and You know it's not all doom and gloom You know there are plenty of things due to to celebrate both personally and as a band. Yeah. I. Of all this kiosk came some form of creation and always does friction can link to grandma is a pity that. So many conflicts taking place in the Viking. It's incredible that they actually months to do any work. I mean the money's to keep up got race your. Problems in a yet. On the Latin after led to be such an unpleasant experience s incredible that actually able to to get back in the shoe to do one wash double one last wall plates. And Saints. So. You always bike to I I talked to him in. Love the bond even Dacas Woman's. Jumps point of view s agree stony an education even even the by is good in the sense in. Charleston or you can just saying the names, John Lennon Own, McCartney, John Tyson stop needs still coney eaves and to Pew Bipolar on what was the most difficult point. I think is a is an interesting situation. But medal darkness. You still have the music at the end of the day is amusing the. Strongest D-. Yeah Oh without doubt You know you mentioned earlier you know we were talking about just the. You know the the. Like aspect of the band and how they took their job seriously and then the immense amount of pressure, and then the time crunch that you put into it. Lesser Human Beings would have just put out you know maybe a song or two, and then a bunch of crap. But that's not what happens. Here. You've got you know as you said, seven years of almost every album being subpoenaed earlier to the one preceding it it's just. It's incredible. Any you know whatever angle you look at it it's really just an incredible period of time. You anybody in history each. Album is forward by a much superior. I mean you can argue whether the way. The sound and he's already. But. It's a double album. All these discussions are very healthy. I'm a great believer in. One of the magical things. As, you can have so many different points of. I still come at the same site to go. Just thank you know that you'll never see no exodus find again in terms of the fluency of subsequent generations but. When And As, a good example of the. Quite going. Question the worst would did. spotify is not invite a Lennon Megani. So but it's a George Harrison Song here comes the. Because active, we'll take your child's Mois. Let's coming up on the rails. But often I I was always fascinated by the Even know what? Reaching the end of this was so much happening in older lace spoke of ended on. What casting the what s help Rates in the van the end. which is also incredible. Oh I completely agree. So do you think that first ring of the bell towards their demise was the sudden death? A Brian? Epstein? It has a significant ought to play. You say finding the division bail in a sense. You know lying moist. The Guy, who wrote all these strands together Louise quite prepared to. DEAL WITH POLGE twins joins wends Georgia's. Rangan have anyone's because he was quite happy to go with little. And he seemed to be able to compartmentalize all these different issues and create some kind of unique. At I died all of a sudden the ship take tiny as long as on the looks. A. Note to. No, the debt needs somebody to be a business mind I. mean you may have left by it's one of US Open ended questions. You know when? Yeah. Yeah. Because Brian Brian as as as good of a personal manager he was. Business Wise. I might give him a C. Yeah SASINA. Semesters. Yeah Yeah. So they always had that side of the business side was always influx and and I think to your point if things had gotten a serious with. with Brian and really looking deep into the books yet they may have decided they needed. Somebody. Clinch. Yeah, yeah you know. So that gets to the first point because you know you know Brian is the year before You point to apple cores. The first major issue to create Dunkin the gears that the three boys. that three of the boys understood the need to keep them of financial issues quiet. but I think Lennon's spoke to disconnect echo where he laid bare the company's deep problems. Why is that and You know do you think do you think Allen Klein saw that interview? No, I think that's Our claim is a demon king of the Beatles. Stoning. Saints. You know the company. Apple. diastrous henning when he even a lot money coming in from the way I'll James Taylor. Many. To walk up to their. New, still spending more than about bringing in. All these terrible. I owe US languishing in the apple votes. No rancor company. Joe Joins the company. But Apple as a business entity voice on an? Stay. Of. Collapse. Sixty nine. Interview, you mentioned. Thinking maybe Cheek John Wayne nevertheless did saying this interview to He. Dungy's last fifty. Bucks. That she's dull. Point. That statement in disconnect. Sent up alleged flair and not rates Leah additives we all the reactor one to New York. And Setting New York as. A mind winning. Shot. ki-hyeon's a smoking kite May. Have, unconventional. A conventional. Booking Pie in his. Office. Hines and the fussing he says, when you see thought Stephen Is Gotcha. And he's name else is our in Clayton was. Ones, but who's clean them bashing and life was that he was going to get the Beatles and when he saw an instrument, he was convinced that he was ideal passing to make his own pitch to take all the running of apple on by doing. So becoming define. Over beaches. At that point what is that chase is moved into Clay Ben, you know all sorts of movements take place in the bullet and and I think that was a key moment in what became the slow dissolution of it behind. The intervention violent claim was a significant ought. A significant element in the makeup of Beatles to call. Yeah. Yeah. Now, the walkout at Twickenham studios by appears to be the first real concerned someone. was actually serious about leaving the band. Wouldn't you say? Say. Vagrant Josh was just. I think he was just saying. Yeah. Now, we we know Ringo had threatened. You months earlier during the white album but but you know. Convincing Ringo to come back would always be easy. Yeah I think I mean cynicism Ho Ho y of into Johnson's DNA. Suffer Fools gladly and he sat. Was Smuggling Takes Yoko Ono enter the way to wait. Beatles family. Now, I've been very careful not to blame because I. Think you look at. It does anybody any good. There was a whole combination circumstances involved. Jia. George. A you'll find you can wake setting the. And the also failed many McCartney where guessing his subs. I was not happy guy and quite. And All. The stations of walking and Hugo. And I went getting. OUT AFTER A. The? Walking Vinnie will. Jackson Mielke. We'd see. I was going to ask about that since you brought it up. Is it seems to me a little bit of revisionist? Absolutely one hundred percent is and no matter how you? Please just yes. The bottom line, my friend you cannot. Simply. Redone. Tyson walks on the beach on a Saturday and estimate in Johnny six in a recording. Because he doesn't think this is walking anymore no amount of and by and by the must use Pizza Jackson Fine But New York Jason is going to change history. To happen. Very interested to co or walks I one hundred percent as Santa of vision. I understand bingles already said it works great while he would say and understand posted loose great understand that you would say that but end of the. Misini. Forever see I'm sure mostly. Four. Hundred dollars a footage. Beg To be some. More often moments but I. Oh. Yeah. The end of the they were not vegas place and you can't change. No it ends in the dissolution of the band. They didn't get it back together. They didn't work it all out not. Be Interesting. To Now, we'll see. We'll see. Yeah. Yeah. All right. We we mentioned Allen Klein definitely of the Demon King in the story but let's talk about Yoko You know it's interesting that most observers over the years have pointed less at Yoko, being a a catalyst of the breakout of the break-up, and while you don't exactly point a finger at her, it seems she's not exactly loved in the mcnabb household. Not. necessarily. It's not Christian love. Is Not questionable and I. Just I just didn't want to become. So stereotypical I single as an easy target for this the thing that may be one of the one of the key key. Elements of this project. Titian voice to try and apply some context to everything to tie apply some perspective to try and see things sued. Over, fifty years and clydes. A SPE to the events up and then and SEAFORD fight. Maybe comedy toast contemporaneous comedy gotten home. and. He's very easy. You must have made those railed nor she voiced. Japanese. American. Of Me just attached to media commentator tame. And you scape us on television. She was ridiculed for being an album gone out just a main claim to fame his film join. With people bikes aids you know and she was perceived is this we have Japanese American Benny. By the Me Luke. Joins by to this lovely go. To and to this Hannibal Robber who but all that said you kind of ignore that clear fight that Yukos arrival on the scene alienated to antiquity join George and Ringo. Studio was always there sacrifice India. Obviously the what know Santana of Mule Chauvinism, attached. Because of north of England boys. So different than is no. I. Studio Voice where the walk and then all of a sudden is you're setting Georgia's. Eating Biscuit. Oh worse than that having a bed broaden. Into the studio. With a mic over the I I again. Being. In bands my whole life I can't even imagine and I would not have taken five minutes. Yeah. you know. I don't care how. Good or important She is You know especially by being a lover to a particular member. Now that now, you have allies now now now the the dynamic shifts completely and utterly and. You just don't know how to respond or act to that I. Just you know I CAN UNDERSTAND A. Number one there I do not believe that Yoko had anything to do with breaking up John's marriage to Cynthia that was inevitable. and. If not heard some somebody else so that that there's nothing there whether Yoko is a you know a an avangard artist and the worth of our art I think in some ways that case has been proven that. while it is a very you know esoteric and and perhaps out there it still is art. It is meant to confront you and I think that's that's a good thing but her interaction with the Beatles and and be honest with you I think I blame John More than Yoko she just went along with this and he you know let's face it. He you know a lot of people say oh so and so. Has Daddy Issues I. think it'd be fair to say that John had mommy issues and Yoko kind of filled some of that that whole for him and at that time because he wasn't getting the emotional support from the the band that he considered his being you know he brought her in to to kind of help on that but in a bad way yeah, I mean he's Very Honda me of. Trying to be devil's advocate, but it's very hard to defend some of the CONDO. Do Place the time. John Wayne I offered out obey possibly Justin's to what was happening in this shoe. And you mentioned on the road. Did cotton and skull and no. On. An Wayne, a company. You can just imagine this scenario Georgia'll. Of because it didn't know what can join me. What's going to be tumbled can image Yeah. He has a couple keynote top tonight's. Is Head on. Heroin. But you can just imagine the scene. I was trying to make. This. AN ALBUM MOLES A. Account the Calibration Lake An Incomes Yorker with a bed with a microphone draped over the toll. I think NASA. Tipping Point I mean it's bad enough when you stop to offer. I'm solicited. Opinions on songs I think not we now because. As I mentioned I think join. possibly. He was really obsessed with you or you miss clearly upset. Yeah. And it's not a stretch to imagine the she had of Zandt -ment towards what's McCartney in particular because we? Point joining poll. Of the ones you then. You'll find the broncos on and they have this. Then he tightened relationship. No Yuko appears in the scene and he's completely infatuated by not just by. Stake -cially but intellectually. Lucy's himself and Yoko to a degree. So pose what you mess on the savings and he's watching. US relationship with e has based dating disappeared over the is I'd also be as creative collaborates dissipating over the is so if any hops deal west. Somewhere in the makes his jaw China's wondering what is going on. So. All makes this Pathak. Storm, of conflict. But you. Kinda me. Your involvement with joint the Eventual Cup of the Beatles s impossible. He factor but is one of many contributing factors to the Ohio. Yeah, I mean it's to me. It's. I the the the Allen Klein, and we'll we'll talk more in depth on that You know the business money side of things, creative differences all of that is completely understandable and that's a natural thing and it happens to a most organizations one way or another. You know if they've been around for a period of time but adding a significant other into the work environment they are they're always going to look at you and say that your the one, your the best you're the one that's carrying the load, your the one that brought this altogether your. Off because they that is their position in in a in a net normal natural relationship to begin with, and it just completely shifts the the dynamic I just don't see how you can get out of. This thing falling apart I think if you if Yoko wasn't in that particular position you know her and John Together and all of the stuff. But let's take the bag out of the studio Let's not have her there while they're working. And doing their thing you know things might be different but because that did happen you know it's I. Think a bigger factor. maybe secondary to the business aspects. There's an. shnell element. Christian and the problem. and. As a musician yourself, you understand this and a bind situation where you have Abedi dominant s analogy away join land. And you have A. Dominant personality, Paul County and he's watching the older the bricks in the wall come tumbling. I. Always Beach Ealing chief. He was a guy here. You know he would have kept going and. If he could. And he's. S side tumbling. And he's got choice. Does He. Does, he go to join and see join. Can Be just lead yokel say and you know whether reactions GONNA be. John Lennon with a going. Point at. The beach are ova. Yeah Yup. Cola. Is Benny much time to be a so Kofi Annan only beaches are team center the Henry Kissinger diplomatically? Yes. Diplomatic. Old All these different pieces together up while walking zoo aligned. Aligned maintenance infested field. I. Understand. What you're saying you know he doesn't want to you. Know is the beaches in an I and he doesn't know how to play. Apply. And subsequent events should. He raped. A It really hurt him more than any of the arrestees. Yeah Yeah So, how does how? Do you deal with a guy like landon and say to. The. Dude you can't bring your wife to rehearsals. Crazy. Hey Babe. Just, that one gets me every time I just I i. All I know is that I I wouldn't have lasted five minutes. The patience of job in Paul A let's say so the Allen Klein. Man seems to be this incompetent person most responsible for speeding up the process. He seems Trumpian in Ego and boast the fuck you money quotes You know the other thing is he's the only one Yoko liked. Like Oh man this is not working out very well I mean he says. In essentially a new. York. He was already manager of the students. A most. Unconventional broken guy over these konate shots on these pike. Not. To. HR overhaul could. Manage, Sancho and settling. Nacho fact for John. Lennon. But late in the underdog and signing again. Takes you. Christian Jewish. People. Who Don't you know you our Clayton one and having these Pudgy hines with glee? Close Bait Open able to manage the spine. And the and the other corner, and this again speaks to the developing conflict between John Lennon, Paul, McCartney in the Blue Kona. Rely I know we have joint Paul McCartney was speaking vent will join Eastman least. Smith. Was Being Misciano many well-known New York, shoe base family finally of low interest payment lawyers and and they couldn't have been more depth. Clay. s they had left in the Sea of tranquility. Recalling The. Wreak Privilege you know the five hundred dollar suits you know the the expense shoes expensive it's I. The good life. Complete justices of our incline. I'm landed right. We which she that I don't i. Can and it's extremely. Humid wanted to clean. But they were looking for business manager, they were looking for somebody to straighten out their business financial issue. I don't understand while the other three do not see through the the con of of Allen Klein and while the Eastman's you know smack of privilege. The fact is, is that I just of feel like they would have been able to straighten things out maybe AMS wouldn't have gone south northern songs maybe didn't go south and things like that, and you know the the other three just I it was almost like they just didn't want to do. What Paul wanted to do and and I get I, get from what you're saying I mean you know I the look and feel a you know a bunch of ugly Americans you know to begin with the of privilege not exactly a conducive to you know three scousers and you know oh in the fact that that you know they were GonNA end up being Paul's inlaws which you know is almost as bad as the the Yoko. Side of things with John. Only added to the COURT IS BETWEEN MCCARTNEY? I an Landon Ringo and George West Gist by by our claims. Hustle and I say. That you mentioned that you money attitude. Oh, you know you know wherever you want I'll get. I'll let to get named songs, which is a publishing company. I'll be able to get to nothing. You lived. Sucked in by the bombast by the false promises by the MT rates. And if somebody. Offers you out I'll get you a million dollars so nothing. Then that's good and there's certain basis. But to see too good to be true. Good. Lucille story sugar which. West, but as I said business naive I. Mean you must have member these useful guys who are still in the twenties. Mean landed in Landon wrinkle or only twenty eight. Still Young guys and been through a lifetime of experiences and everybody wants a piece of you and it's very, very hot who's the Biden the and all this But. POGBA US always in most social class coon justifiable and he in the same way that Lennon with a seduced by. What he classroom entity. My county was equal wasted. By the classes of the Eastman's sense you know you only have to go for Dinner Caesar Picasso here when we of crooning painting here. Thanks. Mia. So again, to principal to Alpha meals the bind in opposite corners businesswise. Hasn't passively because. Linda Yoko never going to be no based offense I need this is going to. Be in the spate of mines Konno's. Sold off all of a sudden. You call indefinite eighties you only went. May, agree on we're might find some calling ground even. Is a music. Yeah. Yeah. So let's take a little side trip. So during this time Ringo goes and makes a movie called the Magic Christian with Peter Sellers and what's really interesting about that is. That the Peter Oh came from this comedy troupe called goons and the Beatles loved the goons are, and in some ways you can kind of see that repartee. Of The goons in them in front of the press especially in the in the early days and then. In the movie is two members for Monty Python, Graham Chapman, and John cleese, which is like the next iteration of the goons of the Beatles and in that and I just it's it's to me to see all of that come together in this little side thing was was interesting. It's an interesting comedy crossover isn't it The next iteration of the goons McCain ice. was huge champion of Monty is. the most expensive home movie ever made. Was Life O'Brien. Pizzas Ringo Staunton how Unusual. Think Bingo stated. Assume, many different personalities and. You. Can See for one day to the next but to this guy talks. Briefly, called loosening. Wasn't. It can also took some of the last night by all the. Yeah when he got in same one of the things about the. What's your ties to people in us to bring some? Proper. Connection. Scenario at a spoke to push McDermott. I'm deb and he negatives. Mentioning you notice in the boot because Betty Nansen getting the sustainment. While winger was filming with sales. So on this potato on. Range that he would meet also. Beatles, and he was extremely nervous. because. Vani you. See I'm cynicism attached to photographers. More showing. Example. This guy is in front of all rituals I did find us up team when he's in find what? And Pizza sales dipped i. you Brunette what songs together so he was a good ally. And the court voice When. Trying to? Trying to soften with. This guy and Since the Gentleman Aiba Trust Bruce with my wallets and not quite y'all celebrate because he's not gonNA give, Huma. His own tree into the bind. Another monty python elements of at George Johnston said. And idol the BBC. Telecom BBC on any Fox night. Is was aired because he couldn't believe it was Susini. Couldn't believe it never appeared on television before. That they got away with Nicole. Isn't James You. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah that's that's a whole nother rabbit hole. Believe me I could go down but so let's let's get back to the business side of things. 'cause you know It seems to me the the loss of names and northern songs especially is just At such a hole to try to dig yourself out of when you begin to process the fact that you know your life's work. Things to other people. Yes. Not Benny. Swung any assume any? Of India Gong so should. Your On, with all these babies Oh that's you should've included data the in the bibliography. I middle of this Van Dyke of the Beatles. North. Northern songs. Again. Takes. was, willing. Is Publishing Company. And it was a last Bochco good on which the. Day Mass. The food is if you like because our unclaimed because it was a guy called James owned northern songs and he wanted to sell the company on storage to the highest. And this was one of the last moments where when McCartney in a business sense it was. Because, by together and they decided to prove the. Past. Businessmen sources to. Steve. Seymour's was seeing their songs insulted. So is better and the new of soaks the songs could be used for anything advertising jingles you name. and. Alan claim. Even broke laying on Eastman's together a short period to try and mobilize all the forces and and form a common front. If you're late to try and keep the Soames within the show Lennon McCartney. Of, course ultimately, it failed because the songs were bought by each. Bay. A company. On an Lennon McCartney loss control. Of the songs and of course, the implications of cascade through the decades ultimately to the likes of Sony Michael Jackson, which is a whole different student. When it was it was very important. I talked to him a bit context. One of the things that. Process, you can find that decision taken in January or February nineteen sixty eight you may not find a or the empire or the implications of my decision voice until before find Munster annoying. When they stopped trying to fend off committee aggressive move to keep somebody else to song briefed them. Eventually the wall stop fate Himba, mangy thank you. That was that was Lou grace. The same. Had ultimately washed the bottle. I'm the bullshit when Alan claimed. They next meeting A. Awful between John Lennon. McCartney Ringo Starr Joe Johnson was. Our Klay Museu. As twenty four hours, maybe forty hours since then and landon moist see the. Because wait flagship been hoisted had. Had No fifty percent control so they wouldn't own song had no control. And landed worst seeming. INTO ME TAKE Wasting saying new record do for capital? I thought our the royalties. Not, meeting as. The wine he wants to. I want a divorce. That's up to twelve. History has shown as. You know when just bought it. But if you enter the context of having wash control of his own songs, I think is. Quite. Mr To the whole thing that. That was the last. That was a fatal slow for John went in the beaches he might have to give. Give the Cat Assira another push. But when he wants to northern songs became up nothing. Woman ready to say to. The end game here and I think that was onis made. People just think he. Kept on seeing. No, I. Think we need to get back to shooting I think we need to get back to. Thank me need to. Find. And landed just kept on saying no, no no, and at some point I do think that it's been buried under sediment of time. One of the reasons why John Lennon. To. Because he was so angry. Song. Losing songs. Well he should have been angry at himself because the reality is that you know this all lands at the feet of Kline. He boasted and made the promise date. Names for nothing would be a problem getting You know the ownership of northern songs and he failed in those two a huge huge pieces of business. Now, he was able to negotiate new royalty rates with Sir John Lockwood of the capital And I think that kind of saved his ask what you say every deadly. I mean, even even to even after the. Songs. Names that tobacco. And this nearly that even. The skills never seemed to fall from when ice and he couldn't see Alan claim was. He was in my guy baking talk re small and small delivering. Action. And Me Reminds me of somebody. In the public eye today, let's see who might be. Interested to see the scale soul from the eyes of the American public over the next ninety days. or or we all end up like John? Lennon Great. Another side of thing that occurs. His the competing weddings. Yeah. Since thing isn't it? It's just. I mean when you're that famous. You know you. You're GONNA be splashed across every newspaper in the world when you get married and so I think you know a Paul Mary's I, and that pisses off John. Now what you have to ask you a question wonder what's the big issue here you know me John Wayne Wait to himself as. Often. Conventional and yet he doesn't use conventional thing you can imagine which is to get money. Now. He was the first. This simply Vibhuti even extended into the. McCarthy Odd Juxtaposition that might within a week of each other. to. joppy's American wife's district to photographer who aboard the plane and went. On. In Gibraltar. At up some fascinating stories on one Josh we be and the plane he didn't have better. Crooked Daiga and Situation Printing Golf will gave. To say, well, you such-and-such police such and such a came Pizza Brian me call apple in to. See. Your. Such things Hamdan on the and only when he was standing on the Tom as you to airport. Is the reason for them being there and these vibes who could I can just again, it seems so calm newly biking because they thought the why the phones working talks by. You. Know supplements. espionage sevices because the Beatles regarded as A. swanky establishing seems so bizarre. It does, but it's not out of the realm of possibilities doing what we know. Now of you know certainly the American FBI. and. Their treatment of John trying to become a citizen. STORY SEEMS TO BE A. Nixon open a book or John Lennon Emily's Johnny six nine now. Now, not long after his election victory and obviously Lennon's. Antiwar Stein's anti-vietnam stunts is materialized vote and sixty nine don't have ever closer to nexans attention. Away. Yeah I it certainly did to to stay in India United States when they they moved to New York. So. you know they do get back together to make one last album I. I. Don't think that I initially the the idea was to make one last album. It's just let's try to get the band back together. Let's try to get back to the way things where they brought George Martin back who had been left out of the let it be. Sessions to work on this thing that ends up becoming a Abbey Road But what's interesting and I, you know I I never quite picked up on this and I got this from your book and that is while both came with some strong musical choices certainly on the Lenin side of things there is a lyrical failure and you know I, you kind of exposed that, and now I went back listening to some of the songs Yo Sun. Kings perfect example where yeah you're right. There's just not a lot there there is there. Well I think an. Perhaps. Squad controversial by do think that joins head-on. Program will in nineteen, sixty, nine, hundred, artistic creativity to. I. Completely. Agree. I mean come. Oh and let it be checked. Good. Don't let me down his great psych. Course unit houses away of the previous. Was Awesome. So many high omits come together is poorly even know even after all these years one of the most popular tax on FM radio even note. What? The likes you think, what is he talking about I e maybe he it doesn't have to be token. Minnow. Just any also if you have a late. I one how she's so heavy. Only, something wait twelve. Watson. In the whole thing and it's an eight minute long. y'All. And I just wonder with any evidence as sentiment supposition. But I just wonder with a head of stymied has when. Empty slightly because Paul McCartney was come to cable with somebody song. Michio. Let it. Be is a very good example, a song which even probably become an anthem to the world and and some oppose Michio Watanabe. I will say you never get on East Greenwich. MAZING track. I of course, we all know her nice vary biting. One of the world's fastest songs re listening. Dan. And he has brought some degree medley silver. Joy Up. By can't join joins. Me Must must've once again you're looking at. But how many said Christian dust fat. Into the coin set of the album, the concept of the mainly and seamlessly. So you don't need to analyze. Elated Lenin. Himself explained I. Want You. She's so heavy. Along the flowing rains it if I see somebody zoning and don't next Asahi. Kaycee. Excuse me to be a better topic. Is there anything I can do to help you see? No Do, you have to do. He added a state, the context of the song. A mild point of view I'm just thinking it doesn't sound great come to means. Agree so. Many special please. Beatles finds off fictions. Yeah and it's been covered many times and. Rightfully so You know it's It is interesting though that you know you can really kind of see the heroin problem most overtly in in the fact that the the lyrics are so sparse and and and not up to par of what what he had accomplished in the past in you know I think you're right. You can just you know those slap it right on the addiction problem. When you look at some of the Pacers overtaken. Benny last pictures of them together as a bind. Much as it pains me because I might be. John John was the undoubted. Hot Bind. Binding spirit of the bind without him additional bind. And painful. To Watch. Some of these images from August who these creel, he's not wear. Any boy people controlling finds drink to some really good stuff. Chine, and. Get back to a sense but the of teachable. Benny beeped and he is A. Pinpricks and he just looks each. Miserable Miserable ask because it's not just the it's not just. And A until the. Fed Up and you have to say give them a Greek. Join. Doing. Thank you to where rail. Now now. But At the same time there are moments of joy and You know one of those, which is you know codified in in history I know of a little bit about is the recording of the ballad of John and Yoko about John and Yoko is marriage of which Paul. John Calls Up Paul one day and says, Hey, I got this idea for Song my income on on down and you know. Working on it and the other two guys are gone off doing their own thing and Paul. Of course, me Yeah Dalby right down and they spend you know eight to ten hours working on this thing, play out the two of them, playing all the instruments and the people around them have said that this was you know a just a normal joyous Beatles session between two guys who were supposedly at each other's throats. Joyous. Cushion. Actually don't I owe it to have the line through this maybe doesn't take so. And and you'd always. Does seem like the Beatles. Even know all handled the domes and you know. Some Guitar Watch and I think it does see. Even at the height of all the WHO is e even at the height of professional past deputies were able to set say I don't come calling to. And this spring the speaks. To, the enduring the hide and I think the oversight. Despite. All the sniping from the site joins older sniping megacity new I think think that you know the the still had this this attachment, each this point, another breakable going and is interesting I think. One thing John. Lennon's defenses John Lennon. It seems to me had an incredible ability. To Cope pop mental is his moods. You know. One day he would be shouting also insults McCartney would've business disagreement. I screaming and screaming his wife much who that must have been do. and. Then the very next day two of them sitting next to nose in a studio how many college to join Yuko as if nothing is. Exciting as decode actually does exist. So I do think it speaks to that. Ties bind. And I don't think he's. Really You know I always used to think of. This. That despite all the things waits. The people unite and the millions of fines. Wanted them at the end to end up with regarding, which is four guys who really loved each other. Really tight. And unfortunately feet just go. By is I. Yeah. Generally genuinely believed that. December the eighth nineteen, eighty January loved each other. Not Change. Sexual. No I I you know in the end, and that's that takes me back to the the beginning question of you know. Would they ever gotten back together and you know again I just think. Had Lennon lived Over something would've would've put them. I it would have been 'cause in into me I keep looking at live aid and say you know Geez that that eighty five at the perfect moment for them you know Geldof, and his 'cause. He was able to convince so many others to to jump on this train There's no reason why he wouldn't have been able to figure out a way to make that happen but you know again that's conjecture You know we'll. We'll never know but I gotta say that we have a mutual friend who was there at the recording of the ballad of John and Yoko in you quote in your book and that's John Kosh a con host on on on our network I've heard the stories from from from cash on you know the the end of that last year because he was there are all the time and then you know he was really John Guy. He was brought in by John and got worked on the ors over campaign and things like that But he was also directly responsible in putting together the cover of the his first album a cover of what she's done over twenty five hundred nowadays. But you know imagine that your first album cover is Abbey road You. Know under under his art direction as as the guy putting it together, and it's an interesting story. How that all comes about and you know a th there's all kinds of issues going on back and forth and you know Cauti- makes the decision of not putting the band's name on the cover of this new album put out. Yeah I mean you know again Colossians one of these guys I. If I can get in touch with them. Then he might be not always used these Christian if you can cheese. And some people told me story so often forget the Hooghly desolate people are always in our main. Studio older fight the one that beach does not appear. On the cover of. The students healthy screen because he was a young guy. Standing much join guy go. Quinn. Lot, which is Jim. Yeah I phone don't that one was no. Any area on on the album cover g went absolutely molesting cost to view whether it be conscious Vaso Botvinnik. He kicked you. Only have to do is look at the cover of this album and if you know these guys and welcome to. then. You're living somewhere else. So he view the and of course, jobs law which. He thought that would be commercially disastrous I and I. It's the o'clock in the morning foon. CAUTI- GonNa. Expand and. Upper class towards shall we say? For, this mission. She. Thought would cost. Millions of pounds I helped him win and albums before she looking at known anybody who doesn't orgies guys are. Coming from another planet coming sky in Europe. Right Right Right So let it be. They are able to kind of resurrect this and now they're you know they're competing versions out there. Let it be naked which is really Credited to to Glyn Johns and how he put it together or versus Phil? Spector. Do you have a preference? I quite liked joins mix Yeah quite join makes A. Beatles unplugged in a sense. Won't before entity arrived in the scene? And it does how stop miss which is quite appealing. and I can understand that you know this. a division of opinion between. The long way. And, the orchestrations has been applied to does. Cycling. Sickly sweet. Been Young Christian and the only best night but him. into the bind was the spectrum. So you kind of become very accustomed to. and. I don't heat I can understand why accountant he did because it was a decision taken against his rushes. Has Control I being a consultancy understand with then I get. them off. So Do Glenn joins makes his respect deserve some. Upbringing by the way of the Cross universe from the dead and went to. Is a great side, the album. With I think they'll. Hansson leap which is much more prominent. As opposed to the single version. So. You know it's one of those moments not. Until ends. In Quench Joyce Mixes. Be Interesting will be whether we get your. Commitment. With with the People Jackson movie right. We've Yeah of course well. I'm sure Giles will want to put his fingers on on that. Hasn't has been. Yeah is what he is accomplished. Yeah. Yeah Yeah Yeah. There's there's no two ways about that that the Giles Giles's done a good job of of resurrecting these sounds and making them making them a little bit more modern. Enabled to probably haven't even longer life than than they had. So. So we said that you know September Twelfth Nineteen, sixty nine when the first Beatle John Up. You know makes a real declaration of independence that sticks but climb pleads for him to keep quiet. And he doesn't he doesn't that was another thing I. I didn't know that he had a spoken to a journalist and told him I think during the Toronto Plastic Ono band, the first show of that that act that now the Beatles were over but you can't say anything but John expected him to say something. Yes. It was actually in Canada towards the end of the year RIA. Mooney Hawkins was one of the old. That's right now, this is the second. This was this was the second trip back when they appear trigger. Oh. Counted out. On and near December. And the guy you mentioned this comfortabe connolly voice a London evening. Standard. Fruit and was counts he was very friendly with. Wayne in I'd Macau I woke Donghai wire. Between Truism you'll embedded careful nor to tying Eichel one or the other and as John Lewis Document now ebbing record away. To. Con. He's actually met with landed top this farmstead and when I just come over. Here. I I couldn't wait to tell she's So he grew. And he says the before even say this whole. Details. Now, this happens I could maybe two months after after he said to McCarthy's because as I was with camera knows. Nobody news from John C. Diesel. No. Not Not he's aren't shell we. We'd seen Ringo leave and come back with George. Leave and come back. So nobody's quakes your. Guys I was only joking. Banded. Granddad Conway chums out to see him in. Canada, the fussing wedding system is. Of the Beatles. And make currently. Most. Shocking East paying thinks he's sitting on the show best biggest inch of the worker. Is. The PS but you can't tell anybody. Well you can't. You. Can't tell. Until I'm ready. So. then. You know I saw generalized into view of life was the landon. He doesn't mention John Lennon has. Messed up, which is not tell me to keep it quiet. And Currently scientist. Then tell anybody not so and then five there knowing hormonal issues, foucault album and say the so while q name and the. Makes it betty create. Beatles and it's all up. So they call. BITCOIN is. Fueling record. To. Louis. I Landed of course, it's own themselves because also. Headlines over the world although. A way because he. said. Becomes the villain knowing the story. At the moment. And of course, Landon says to me, why did you? May Conway said well, you told me not. And he said you the Degel you'll login. Why can't you rate? So you know think recalling me what's Ain't say thought he was being set up. Because when You've been able to assess the Disaster I Regret. He missed on the you say the shortest strip, August Korea. Right. Right yeah. So Paul on April one, thousand, nine, hundred seventy does a self interview and that now is considered the the official announcement though I think some still held out hope throughout nineteen seventy wouldn't you say? Yes there was always a possibility it could get together again. You. Know I mean people always older is all branch the some of it own the way don't can. I think the. Wrong. Things will last. Then you mentioned alert the concert for Bangladesh and George Harrison's fussing with all things must pass all things must pass. Yeah. Strong efforts off. And then you go into plastic ono bind. He's already done McCartney. And saw my son. Not, exactly a strong effort. But. We, we know he was going through some very, very difficult to eat i. think he emotionally suffered the most of. I think he was tenable. Pointed terrible blow in his personal life You know he's smoking before. You drink too much alcohol. It's not really like you kind of could Zoro himself on site inside depression. And eventually, of course, he had to take the session. He was the one who tooted decision not. An author for head to break away from the beach he had new auction. But Too Soon Beatles and author the company to be rescinded. Yeah I say that the the end of the beales is December thirty first nineteen seventy when the lawsuit is filed officially when when Paul sues the other three Beatles and their management would you say that that that's a? Facial Wayne in the signed. Christian with. A novel by viewing to a long time for the winds to heal for the. Toxic and. These winds were safety, and of course, you stopped to each other songs. In the press and when we do not so he just gets. As he was. Asleep and this unfortunate. The war between them was played. How quickly because it didn't do either any fevers and. Of course, it may find's. United joins. Count. On a union culture how? And it just added to the code is. Picking the binding itemized or you need love couldn't find that seem wealth when Needed it most and by the ten months. Yes. And even off the land in and hottest. Basically wise up and the skills that ice and the shot while claim. By but I. Companies. Can Use Finding Divine I. Owe a sudden. Made. No I think I think. You mentioned to ever colder combine a hobby. If John John said, let's let's put it back together. Yeah Paul would have would have figured out a way to make that happen and and you know in today's world. It's funny. Have had many discussions with. You know with the legends in their position where you know. In the back in the day you either were abandoned, you weren't a band. Now Band can go on hiatus. They can do solo projects and come back together after a few years and everything's good and you just pick back up which you know in a weird sort of way just seems normal and the idea that you know an artistic endeavor should just end. you know just goes to show just that that you know the commercialization of the corporatization side of things the business side of things just takes over so much that you you inevitably just take on the language and the expectations of a business as opposed to you know four guys getting together making music always take the you know that if I, if I get a couple of obvious question. I see a bind Susan in rockall number. You, know. The famous famous armistice poem, each shallow weedy then I she these four guys walking sides a walking is Zebra crossing an into history I enough saints? Quick. Pass new point you. Not. Because there was no L. Aesthetically, it makes perfect second. More diminishing towns by you may get by five years, you might get back in ten years. And you make an album of course new you hold off against you hold up to the light against the white album. Well, it's not quite. Better To The beachell sailed snow doing album is an analyst sudden your reputation in your legacy and keep before New to get it by because all of a sudden looking a law of diminishing returns if you look find the students who I walked. Over the years. Or seven after seventy, eight it's really a classic in their. Becomes difficult. I'd all of a sudden they have become even aware for the fine to the do you call the? hoppy. But oh I just saw them last year believing he. Just, is great and as far as the lion ban, they're just as good as. or You just said but but as far as putting music together getting composing that You just say. Says, my argument. Become you know Soviet bind I've foods, and. Goods. Are would have heated onto the Beatles ran by the become. A abundant eagles example even glades knee having. To. STOGIES and they satisfying. Thing you? Conscious Obese Puglia on the style Jer fleetwood. Come into the. And incident. That's okay. There's no law that says you can't do that. I. For, the Beatles I have wanted to be able to look at. And say, that was a moment where student Vienna and and everything. Of what I'll coach where I give tinder integrity under trade ago a bond. So, as we said, you know. December thirty first nineteen, seventy We both agree is the end of the Beatles officially a, but you know a Lotta people point to Altimonte as the end of the sixties and I completely disagree I think that's too easy. A point to I I personally think at the end of the sixties comes with the end of the Beatles that really they are the cultural touchstone of the decade if not the late twentieth century and maybe even the entire century and you know they. End on December thirty, first nineteen seventy. So wouldn't that make the better you know if I if you had to point a finger which is difficult for archaeologists and historians. But if you're at a point finger at a particular moment, like some have done with Almonte, I think a better marker is December thirty first nineteen seventy would say man December yet absolutely that mass movement in the signed where those no real of not of the Tom and once you start bringing in lawyers and I mean I mean, not the ban raising six game. Franken. Slow I. But I mean, I mean the nineteen sixties not the band but the entire decade comes to a close on December thirty first you know as opposed to. December thirty first nineteen. Sixty to. Six, year. B B because that is the end of the Beatles, and the Beatles are really what the sixties you know. are really about this. You know this, they were the the soundtrack of the decade they pushed the envelope that commented on the Times The Times a affected them you know that just they are in in. Encased in that counterculture more so than anything or anybody body, and it just seems to me that if you WANNA point a finger at a particular moment, it's not altimonte it is them and it has to be their demise which occurs exactly one year later on December thirty first nineteen seventy. John and I am. because. Near the end of the your book, you suggest the nineteen sixties provided a small window when a chunk of humanity briefly realizes its moral potential and flirted with a collective belief that the love you take is equal to the love you make. McCartney's flaming me such a such a lane and it just seemed to sum up everything about them. You know especially when it came to young people, they they able to marshal a movement even able to. Make people feel better boat themselves through the Music Mindy said to me by the Beatles so much. I love home abides talk when the students all the classic opened by. I can usually go from Warsaw to metallica often shooting, Butson also, Noko. Ended up. Using the soldiers meeting hockey. soulmate me hockey and. You'll never see a pdf investing again I think we have so many young people way out sue motivated to be a movement for Change. Unfortunately change as A. Constant it's never it's never when police it went team. Moved be nice if it was. Eminent nervous but for that. Because you did mention ultimately and ultimately. Changed things in terms of. Moot. CINCINATI him but for a short pdf in history I think Beatles affected some kind of social and cultural change which was good for the Klina. Once, again. And that's too bad. So you know. What was it about them in your opinion that we all still obsess about just four regular blokes from northern from a northern English town playing American style music. I. I mean it's the ultimate. What can move Ettelaat and say a conundrum you why fifty years? Ago Is let you and I made. A young minds game but somehow. The songs have. Appeared songs seem to up taking on a life of the wind and. Songs. But enmeshed in the middle of oldest. Personalities. All John Lennon. McCartney Thomason. Bingo stop and they seem to have deacon on I. said he if he should especially medical I mean that's a lot of people in America who stole a gallon, the Beatles even sixty. Sixty years old fifty five years on I some candles. Coaching divinities. Held in his high an eye, the sound become. Influential. Because they all have. Influenced so many binds subsequent to so. Does speak to the quality have but. As I mean you know? Why did we still talk about? So many years after the after the events. Why do we still talk of? You know what we? Re told him. He's a quarter century. Half a century. We still talking but the Beatles, another fifty years type when you and I are pushing up. Now it's a nice probably yes. Because there's always something you you can find and that's why I wait wait. Equate the for me a phone something you. Post something using the table. Now who is covered and see the painting decades has done in a connor. Lacking Roy. And never spoken before so that I, always Louisiana can be teased. With the beach seem to absently. I saw phenomenon also to win and I don't see changing I think no, always be something you ended the. Music all songs. I think it was a very, very special time. That is. Something I harp on of over and over again, that you know musicians weren't treated You know like mythic creatures before The rock and roll age and you know now it seems that the sun is setting on musicians being treated that way again, you know you know this this is this is not how music normally works it just you know it became you know the Language of for at least two generations if not three generations and it's been replaced. music doesn't hold the same sway that it it for for people like you and I you know social media is now people have asked me well, what does think it's hip hop rapping a no no, it's not music at all. It's it's social media. Now is holds the same place that music did for. People of our. Age So. you know you quote Lenin in the book. After he gives back his Mbe talking about the communist menace and American paranoia and him basically saying America won't be overrun by communists it will fall from within. he was trying to quote Sin Zoo their the art of war. So was he just pressing? Your. Lunch and I was you being prescient? An interesting. And you know John John Join boys interested in politics but. Also I sit nobody attached Yorkers anybody. Can text poetical beliefs by doing anything license? What he'd been Crescent, it's an interesting some interesting observation, I mean John Lennon in eighteen issue. I. Can Question. Would you how? Would you been in a motivated by? Come, American politics of US myself that question Ma'am American politics are love reading about not just come climate over the come climate makes it more fee but I. I don't. Make me wonder woodland if he had been alleged. Being motivated to. Speak against the administration. Now says, no, I mean John Usually after double fantasy. The couch. You say. What you continue point life and maybe you`re It's one of those. By. Don't think you've been about. I think I can see that with some authority. I agree. I think I think he would've spoken up and you know it's interesting that you brought up at yeah Born nineteen forty he would have been eighty this year and it makes me think of any boils last film yesterday where you know the the idea of of a world without the Beatles what WH- would. They still have been huge in you? Know you know to Danny's movie? Yeah. They still have been. It's because of the songs it's all the banners. Well. I saw movie 'cause you guys my wife. Tell you this I. Sat here and saw why didn't I think of that? Why didn't? I mean think. So simple. Why the blazes? and. I think we all did. I can because you always looking for something that hasn't been done and the interesting thing the Beatles legacy in January. One of the visas for hops as because of the Taiji who stroked the join line and thanks to the host on his Mata in eighteen eighty had gotten hopkinton. Perhaps. Uti May know how I quite smart people stuart. But. It's incredible to think that. In December before to use as really. Yeah Yeah. Well. Ken mcnabb, thanks so much for being with us on deeper digs today what Chris it's been my obsolete plays I only hope people can understand this accent combinations between Sean Coney in one. So Schumer so buoyed. And so hit. And hopefully, I'm obsolete donated booster seat when America Wasa friends Medicare never forget as. It's better well received a on this eight of. An America was a promise lines, the Beatles. Sweeter. Sweeter. On Nosy Woah you're such a US Asti bikers of black American music with which and the middle. Zanny keen to emphasize point and they lost Dominica and I think a account he's been shown over all these years America's Luxembourg. Activation of area. Wise words I convey. Atkinson. Any Scottish. that. This has been MIJIC. Know Wow. I just have to say as the rock and roll archaeologist. First of all I, just love anything about the Beatles and Ken has done a great job of factually taking what we now know would fifty year rear view mirror and peace all the contention, the inviting the little things that add pebbles to an already growing mountain of crap. Do go out and grab his newest book and in the end the last days of the Beatles wherever you get your good reads, and especially, if you're a Beatles, not only his Beatles in Scotland is a must have for those funds net ticks. All right. Okay not much on my mind this week well other than a little vacation from podcast land. Yep I'm going to UNPLUG probably the most I've done certainly since the beginning of the pandemic where I literally do work almost seventy s a week in probably even before that Probably since last year that I've been able to really really unplug. So I'm looking forward to that but real quick. I don't know if it's just me. But we've we found this interesting thing about the Beatles songs whenever we go to find the perfect one for a situation. They, almost all weirdly fit for whatever the occasion. or or maybe a set of songs to choose from always seems to fit and there's always a Beatles song to fit any occasion weddings, funerals announcements praise melancholy what your needs might be Lennon Mccartney have what you want. It's weird. I haven't quite come across this with any other ban usually I have to think about it or worse. There is nothing exactly like I want to say subtly in a song that belongs in context to what I'm talking about. Especially in the rock rock geology podcast. The Beatles just seem to have a song that fits for any need. It's like the hallmark card selection at your drugstore. Anyway. Something for all of us to ponder while walking in the woods or not enough to sleep a try it sometimes, and you'll see whatever the occasion there really is a Beatles Song. Obviously it speaks volumes to their universal appeal and even fifty plus years on. They are still part of the Zeitgeist. Okay. That's it. For this episode next time I will be amongst friends and colleagues very excited about this upcoming show when Pantheon podcast host of side Jams Brian Reese men. and dear, friend of this podcast and Brian your dear friend as well. Journalist extraordinaire Jeff slate. Join me to break down to old time rock and roll films recently given the DVD upgrade treatment up Brian did the new commentary on the David Essex and Ringo Starr vehicle from nineteen seventy-three that'll be the day which is an early rock and Roll Tale set in fifties. UK Very different than What was happening in America the music you cross the oceans. You know the culture of the society were very, very different You know postwar England was you know not experiencing the boom in prosperity that? Post War America was, and that comes through in this in this picture. In in in many instances, it's it's definitely one to to check out and to get a different perspective on how the UK was back in the the pioneering days, rock, and roll and then. Jeff joins, US where he and Brian Provide the commentary on film called pop gear. It was called Popular in the UK Aka Gogo. Menia in the states, which is a collection of UK ax in nineteen sixty, four presented on camera. Know I kind of like for the kids to sample Well, let's just say we all have a lot of fun and lass. So make sure you come back for that one. All right that's it. I am off a wish me luck and hopefully come back charged up and ready for more. Of course I will until then I'll let Paul have the very last word. And you'll keep up the rockin. Pretty nice girl she doesn't have a lot to say. Nice girl but you change today. But I'VE GOTTA get a belly full of wine. Nice. GIRLS THEY WANNA make a mine. Deeper. Digs hosted by Christian Swain. Produced by Chris Wayne and Peter Ferry Farrelly. Sound designed by busy signal studios engineered by Jerry Daniels. Cristiano, Donald and Leslie Barker. Find Olive, our shows, notes, and social links at Pantheon. PODCASTS DOT. com. Contact social at Pantheon podcast on facebook and instagram. tweet US at Pantheon pods. All songs can be found using this podcast for purchase or streaming wherever you get your great music. Please pick up these amazing tracks. Hi Their pop is greetings from rocks back pages in swinging London town brought to you by the Pantheon podcast network as Bob Dylan Sang. We were so much older than younger than that. Now cannot possibly be true. No, we are young at heart and we do have heaps of fun when we invite special guests to join us and discuss everything that's new and cool on rocks back pages the online library of music rising guests have included petro boy. Neil tennant film director, Mary Harron ramones manager Danny Fields Creation founder Alan, McGee, and countless stars from the world's music press. These large than life legends have looked back with us. Some law schools for the lost sixty years and listen to great Kip Small Library of audience views with everyone from Jimi Hendrix attorney Mitchell. Kate. Bush, and cut complain. Here's Neil tennant on the pet shop boys. We had a certain amount of hostility because I being a journalist. So people thought it wasn't off stunting right thing. These two Clinton. Guy For playing. Playing the industry. So please do join us every other week for an hour of unabashed. Celebration of Popular Music and deeply humbled opinions from your co hosts. Barney hoskyns not printable and Jasper Murison. Bowie real in those years with the rocks back pages podcast.

Beatles John Lennon Sir John Lockwood Landon Ringo Allen Klein Linda Yoko John George Lennon McCartney Paul McCartney Scotland Ken. mcnabb John Wayne John Paul US John Yeah Dunkin donuts Beatles Benny James Taylor McCartney
Songfacts Podcast: Author Ken McNab on The Last Days of The Beatles

Pantheon

1:01:07 hr | 7 months ago

Songfacts Podcast: Author Ken McNab on The Last Days of The Beatles

"Saw. Pitches. And welcome to another episode of the Song Facts Podcast I am your host Cory o'flanagan and this podcast is proudly part of the Pantheon podcast network. If you're like me and are a massive fan of all things, the bales than we have such a great show for you today where would Mr Ken mcnabb who is the author of the book and in the end which details in a month by month manner the year nineteen, sixty, nine for this amazing band we focus mainly on the songs throughout this time, but there was so much going. On behind the scenes as well, that is impossible not to discuss whether it's the turbulence of the business dealings and their new manager Allen Klein to the rising star of George Harrison as a songwriting forest with the global zigzagged of John and Yoko Peace Movement we touch on at all. So stay tuned for a wonderfully articulate Ken mcnabb and be sure to buy his book and in the end. For even more on this often discussed time in vetoes lower here we have can magnum. Okay, can mcnabb. How. Are you today? You have good coach. Thank you very much for having me. Thanks for coming on song facts and I guess before I'm so excited. I could I've I've I've I'm someone who's probably a little bit older but I'm still obsessed with the Beatles and I've never really gotten to talk to a an expert like you. So I'm really excited about it and I guess question number one as a fan and just I've I've always just read musical biographies. I can't imagine if I had them all how many would be on my bookshelf but I've gone through so many and I just love him. So the fact that I got to read your book over the last couple of weeks has been amazing. But I'm always amazed at the details that go into it. Some kind of just interested in the how do you go about your research in an organization of a book like this? What was it like this? You had to become a in how to combine the qualities of A. Detective with an archaeologist innocence because token about events new. Half a century ago. So. I mean like you said, like you said so I'm in a room here which is surrounded by books about the Beatles. The most Retina boot bind in history. A. When you come to project you have to ask yourself to salient question, cody, which is s does the world need another another Beatles. And the. So of some fantastic jake. Some blow books and great pieces of walk I guy to evaluate. Taken very seriously the seediest skull us and these binds seemed to attract that level of scholarship from people so I pushed it with the view. First of all with it being ninety, six eight when I did it for the up vessels book was the Wind McCook new book as John Lewis. Would always looking for diversity. moments, you can attach something to so I took the view. Look at nineteen, sixty, nine through the prism old half a century. And perhaps using not. So not ideal of being a local detective and piece together all the elements from nineteen, sixty nine. And almost diety form Codeine obergefell diagnosed. With then people can people can then definitely de. Video sections the of more appealing to. So I thought if you could stitch together a nominative. Month by month non-active looking events happen in specific months. Then by during that, then you're compiling this. Through the entire year and by doing so you hopefully producing some kind of cohesive whole end of. You're such. I always say I Quixote Yoho by different get lost in translation. To an appeal to you. I just I've always thought that the Beatles the music is the music, but the story of the binders is really compelling essential for people. If you if you're a good story, then the beat told really the uninvited and not an aspect for being just a fantastic story on it so. I completely agree and I think that it's for me anyway for some reason, nineteen sixty nine seemed to be the year that for whatever reason I knew the least about and I'm curious did you find that? That was that you uncovered some things that you were like you didn't know going into it as someone who's studied the Beatles allowed. The idea of the idea of a sensuous at not to try and uncover some mystical revelation but to try a to try and peel by the layoffs. And you? Don't you to do this with any credibility. Court was to try and speak to people who ended binds ORB at that same either professionally of passionately because the problem with a bind like the Beatles is stories, become legends and legends become mets nine job to try dive down into the weeds died down into the the tangled roots of the owner Katya ends trying set three fight from fiction notably do that with the speech people. So what for me it was interesting was to be able to speak to people who were witnesses to history. Again. They've taken events because the problem is. There's been so much mythology attached to the bind. Nobody's it's only natural understanding of Paul, McCartney and Ringo. Starr can't remember key points of the past and what chance to see. Historians House executive. Approached it with a view to speak to people I spoke to testified people Ed, for example, men who? Would ended in Twickenham studios foaming alleged be Ed Don. Rushton. Medical Guide who stayed with joining Yoku through much of nineteen sixty nine. Yeah. A guy who is involved with the the get piece of John's so and when I spoke to these guys, why did find cody was they even after all taken even for a guy who you've laid everything that you can still cheese oh, fantastic stories. Yeah. I took the view the these stories when to. Than perhaps. Show. Because of the Mnuchin me they might be interesting for the people who who, who, unaware of absolutely. Yeah. So that was the challenge. goal in Saints Chine but something new to the table as not some mystical new revelation. You know I mean even even today you hear things like the secret recordings were gonNA continue after nineteen, sixty, eight I don't believe. Thanking. Will maybe come onto the Pizza Jackson, the be. Challenge and not was a goal I think. biolog- a monster tool of. Yes occupied here? Yeah. I I don't I. Don't know if there's another book that I've read. That's been this month to month linear. And I kind of want to jump into that. So it's opens in London obviously just cold London in January and The kind of. Right. Away goes into that the recording. Let it be in the obvious infamous rooftop concert on three Seville road. And What are some details that our listeners might not know that kind of took place behind the scenes that day without giving away the key takeaways from that he might get if you read the book. Yet. Important thing was just the the the. Assembled. avengers assemble the Beatles assembled and. January second ninety-six today to begin what on what would eventually become led to be that tape was cold. Get back at unofficial important here to apply some context to depleted I, think that's important. Thing here is context. Because they had not long finish the grilling stations for the way album when she's ever been able knew it is a double album and it took five months to call the way album. Remember how many songs over until maybe twenty sewn. And the really draining expedience. Here they wear west and two months later back in the studio in the context is this. Event Diagram Cody if you imagine Van Dyke on if we can go back to when described as. You can imagine van dig-. On. With the Beatles in the middle of. John Lennon Paul McCartney Joe China's Rangel stop in the middle and shooting off in various directions of these diagrams. Diagrams can consist of a issues business issues. Pass no issues and simply maturity issues. But the coin cakes is by the time they arrived bite in the studio. I should save Paul McCartney's behest. They were professionally a passing away exhausted liberal judge drained. Copy foam account is he is relentless Workaho Hallway. He has an incredible work ethic. UNQ- arrive by mister domain. Music. Spoke to him. WHO PLAYS WITH? said. McCartney's tooting. Should you a bind in eighteen nineties and he told me music just poor? Help, he has almost like cups. So you know he would arrive with nine, hundred, sixty, nine yielded highest some great songs. Under the Beltway for example to be sticking. Woman Wayne. Lewis kicking island. Two of us. But the other three of suffering from capable only attainable leverage because the religious the restocked point where. The other things happening in the latest being toys, not necessarily for George George and Ringo we'll certainly for joining George the number one priority, but he'll you how. Sergeant Major McCarthy throwing them into late winning team. Because he thinks it's important to. Keep the bind going to maintain. Productivity and but it was difficult another three point because there's a say a dreadful lethargy had begun to ten for all sorts of reasons. There's I mean there's all these everybody's not going to be on the same plane creatively all the time. So of McCartney's doing that I mean who can expect to be able to keep up with that and you know they were obviously under a lot of pressure from the label I forget exactly what they're deal was, but they had to produce a certain amount of music every year so. Might not be challenging for Paul to do that. But then you're also going to have these egos coming in and that's a lot what you talk about in the book of. You know I wanNA have this song on and I think one of the interesting things that I noticed is the precursor to kind of what became the Abbey Road Suite was these combination of songs which they kind of started with. majorly with a day in the life, but then they really got into. With. I gotta feeling. I think that that was a McCartney and Lennon they just said, let's just mush these together to very distinctly different parts without specific does on Tuesday, songs been fused together and they. The. Day is obviously out good example and an as a great station. When in Macau is ability to bring to different parts of a song and a Nissim together to provide to produce a credible. You mentioned the Abbey road sweet enjoys Martin had long time been urging them to consider moving in a more symphonic deduction. Yeah. you know this is the you know heavy wrote you. Know you've got fleetwood Mike storms the WHO. Zeppelin of taking off your medic I. Think you've got the Butterfield butterfield buying. I am butterfly at all these groups on the in a much heavier focus and the Beatles could easily compete with them without any problem and essentially. An ambulance we actually. lately, and it works really well but you know such was the Such A. Between joining poll out PD, for many other reasons that you know it's difficult for them to be on the same page. Even musically I mean one point for be rude, which is course a great album and the last love letter to but went point just to illustrate who. Who Float thanks when when point wanted all his songs to be on one side of the album? McCartney songs could be on the other Kosheh bats just impractical I mean. Say the beetle democracy by ain't. GonNa walk at all. So, we get a common sense Eventua- came through. You know I have the the the mainly in the form that we all knew in love and bridges show should the difficulties? tehmina mainly is a is a top ustry of again a whole load of songs that had been landing for quail actually some of them, some of with Bipasha. India. Sixty eight mean Mr Mustard. And a saint, Louis fragments even knows an argument for saying the throwaways. Somehow thanks to them. Incredible musical genius. They were able to piece to go of this jigsaw. into. What is an incredible piece of what it really is? I think it's probably my favorite whatever it is fifteen sixteen minutes of music that they've put together back to back at one of the things that you mentioned the book is that. Lennon McCartney are. And I think this is a quote fair teen around in their bottom drawers for decent material. And I'm wondering what do you attribute for being the main reason for this? I think in Saint Paul McCartney always had material. As I said, you know he's he's got to be one of the most prolific song rates of stole possessions of all team. beyond beyond reasonable argument. Jordan was struggling I. Think clearly. An just a personal opinion because it's no secret that he hide ahead problem mid nineteen, sixty, nine I think that it did stay me his leading creativity to a dignity explain why? And also affected his behavior and. I always think of join PD cody is like being volcano trump denise. Because you've never Kuwait sure what John Lennon you're going to get. Results of these. Was More than doubling ahead when you know I mean Don Is a valuable nomadic can ACTA. WHO Don't know actually the eight in the old nick sequence for two thousand, hundred, one, a space and he was a famous maim outaced. So if you look at two thousand, one, a space over the ape with the club will by dying astonished. No. Amazing really. And he and he would tell me stories about and. Candid. About the difficulties the and hide with heading and the reason they may be staying creativity and a saints was because if you take weight come together or even if you look at some of the songs on me on the mainly, let it I don't think the fantastic. Come, together as one of the most popular and enduring bittel tracks of old team. got. Just. If you look at the lakes. Visible we've been to. One. What the hell he's talking about. I mean, you know in nineteen, sixty, seven not can of that kind of Happy Gopal. Did was restricted like holy script. But by nineteen nineteen, Sixty sixty-nine flow has weathered the vein and people were looking for something a bit more what. Shall we say? Eb, nor can hear people in the bike goes eight. Wow. Don't tell me. He's criticizing John Lennon associated. No I love join you think he was beating hot of the Beatles I. Really. And without him the. Bind. But if you look at some of these, what from eighteen, sixty nine. And, if you take up song I, want you she's so heavy, I think there's only fifteen one. Who? After. Designed does not mean necessarily that he was literally Bite Rob two point. The flip side of the argument is. going. He said everything you've wanted to say endless safety once. So what's your problem may is being extremely debate in what was an extremely votto. So what's your problem? If he says in theft eighteen months and he says thirteen months Joan cage doesn't use anyone could. So you know. I I. Mean I feel like you can easily argue that either way you can look at that and be like, yeah he just kind of slacked off had a good riff and decided to just put some words to his came up with thirteen or He got this really great message of love across thirteen words. That's pretty incredible to so just to the Lens that you look at it through the absolutely two ways of looking at another good example, Sun King, which is very spa slit Clinton that does not mean does not mean that he he run out of ideas. Or just plain simple fact as you say, he said all in the ones that he wanted to use. So so you know. Can. Stay tuned for more song packs podcast right after this. Back. I'm glad you brought up come together because when I was putting together the outline for this conversation I went to the song tax website where they've got they've got like truthful things that have been proven better actual song facts but then underneath they let. Know fans just go off and just put in their interpretations and if you go and read the thread for come together, it's it's pretty incredible at some of the people have to say about that. I want to jump over now into the what's going on with George during this time because in the book you write about George was writing some of his most notable stuff which I think is is pretty clear but was being treated as a sort of younger brother by Lennon and McCartney and I'm just wondering can you expand on that a little bit for us? Yeah absolutely. My I. Think Nineteen Sixty was an extremely pedia enjoy Johnson's. A. Jones was adopt costs coming up in the end stage real in nineteen, sixty nine. On the album especially he had, he had Mike at town weeps. Sweet Which I still think is the one beetle try cody which I think even though gets better with age really think it's not good. Became I hear I just late love even more but George had always been treated by joining poll as an economy class beautiful simply because he wasn't. Any wars. In their league is a songwriter. Joining poll where the heck fight today, you know they were the the the beetle building in a sense. George Beginnings maybe one of two soames album if he was lucky being won't change Johnson producing some really strong. By the dame, Nineteen sixty-nine comes up he has something may maybe up to them to songs and he's bottom jaw. He knows some of them are very good but it's very, very difficult to fame space on a Beatles album for three principal later. Yeah. But as ever been annoys. Georgia's contributions to. Are Simply Standing Yup? Wilno. Here comes the sun and something which many people we don. Actually maybe the actual in the album. Yeah. Something say yesterday I think. Is the most. Is the second most covered Beatles, talkable, Jane. which for the fiscal orientated was the hottest Houston eight. Sure. Is there any truth to the quote I've heard this in the past and I'm wondering if you know of this quote, I think it was Sinatra that said something along the lines of well, that's the Best Lennon McCartney song that's ever been written and it was like the most like. Best compliment that George Harrison could got being called a Lennon McCartney song in that time. is absolutely giant kit and so soon after used to always introduce song you know A. Great Song by when McCarthy. And of course, George would be setting quietly seething undecided lanes. Any dead code the greatest love Song of the last fifty years. defined by thank obsolete But You know if it's a great piece for George. Corey about Georgia's tape. Because he was coming on as a musician. He also had the respect of other musicians notably bill. Who with whom he had green affinity and a great friendship, and also, of course, edit KLOPP's if you take. If you take. If you stood away wrote music's most famous Manezh Twat. With. Exactly. If you compare that to one side. So you know he has has. Is Morale was extremely good. He was very good place on he didn't. He was overweight the least committed to the bind the Molin point because he knew the in a new, it was also exploring. Of Indian mysticism no, he's life was taking a definite bothell sense but my I do have asleep CD of boom in nineteen? Sixty. A. vis-a-vis opioid. Because I feel that. Will be would I could live with Mike slopes overhaul of quoting. That's kind of clear. You kind of touched on that a couple of times in the book. Yes. I try not to get too observational politics too much. But by my my point is Hind Lennon McCartney been able to cops of egos just slightly and Concetta went up to the songs George, hide the eventually ended up on all things must pass which I still think is probably one of the top three solo albums Otane the. Than I think it would have been saying as the greatest records ever even a song all must pass. Course is when you look at the weddings digs all over the place. To other Beatles Jas Antilles. Cutting. Sands. Of. Fulfillment. And so perhaps later, McCartney, when looked the weddings for thanks most price. Absolutely said I think we will pass and it's a shame because you know the great songs as a couple of other ones for. Tokes. Winded, I'll lose your friendship. Completely pull and ended up on these solo. These great songs and all things must pockets. The Beatles is actually dead. What come on in the Chicago anybody WHO's have the dishes on Youtube? Dreadful. Weather today at a thirty unfortunately punctuated all sanctions on most of the sessions for to be. Ashamed because does say George been given a bit more room and I'll be rude than you I think it would have been okay and it's interesting to know more than context quoting that if you look at spotify and if you have to ask somebody what is the most popular Beatles track on spotify the might come up with hey, jude the let be you. She loves you the most popular spotify s fight here comes the sun which courses jokes hunted. And what an amazing thing to write such a? Just stand alone happy optimistic song in the time that they were in a kind of shows what you were touching on before of him getting out of the chaos because didn't he went and spent some time in upstate New York with the band and Dylan. Kinda saw like wow this is like very free way of making music I'd like to be a part of that and I think he went he was in San Francisco in the summer of sixty seven for a little bit too. So he kinda saw some of that flower power stuff. He's got. So he's got all these ideas going on in his head. It's like. Going to work for him was terrible going home to London in like working with the Beatles was just like this is just stressful. These guys are at each other's throats. I'm not getting the respect that I feel like I should get in it's just really interesting dynamic editing. Yeah absolutely I mean when he when he when he arrived by in London to begin what can lead to be a nine, January nineteen, sixty, he hides his you speak spent some time with the bond with Dylan, and he loves the collaborative approach to making music which is. Very flea you know very much could minded as himself. He arrived back in London. Within two days. He described. Back in the winter of discontent didn't know George, schick speeding, but then you go. Every school day. And did see that he said distributor is. Back, in the winter of discontent on within within ten days of being back in not situation Jordan walked away from the Beatles either dreadful. Everybody thinks they had rightful row with with Paul McCartney over. In history who foam is a famous notorious scene with you know the arguing over Guitar Thanks. George walked into bind because he had with. Snow can make he had over join an again by speaking to people who live have the. Able to apply some Betty Betty. An unusual relationship with John Lennon it'll. Look talked to join join was all done what more wealth ice but Benicio Sixty Georges go in mind he's all of them is going to be you know these guys had been together for so long cody and had been mushroom growing and say they'll be to walkers and by the time it comes to nineteen sixty nine you know yourself you know you don't always hanging the guy, some highschool your lives have begun to veto for different today, Kim Siri troops but on the other could be interested in the horizon. And George. I. Think you said in the Beatles Anthology you know he said if A. If this isn't for me. If you I'm going. He left under frantic discussions I mean lending make some ability sarcastic a will get edit can. Eric, Clapton's GonNa join the Beatles Yeah. I shows you a conversations to try and encourage joint to compared George to come back into the fold but. George was you know he had seen her other groups at what? Later? The nine hundred, sixty nine that's interesting because he actually went to with Delaney and Bonnie which come from nine same function head of the by way of approaching music. and He loved it because you say the beach bubble as much more democratic process an a much at the bottom line is much more fun. Any kind of cherry picked up my sweet lord out of that too. Didn't he? Yes. Yes I'm wondering now because you do a great job of intertwining everything going on musically. The business side of things and we're a songs podcast organ stay on the music here for the most part but I really really am curious of your opinion. Do you think that Ellen Kline. Who became the manager or was it some other role? It was the manager, right? Yeah so he becomes the manager he becomes like in charge of other business affairs at it's three versus one with Paul sitting out on that but is it his is he is he the main reason for the demise? Of Vinegar Question I tried very hard not to apportion blame is the most famous. Questioning wrote music estimate. Who Split her split up the Beatles. And I've been Bene- careful not to apportion blame. You know Yoko. Easy target. Neighbor Kosher. Primarily because. Women. I believe for the sake the she she was specifically Allen claimed again, just apply some belief contexts was the manager of the rolling stones at type. Of bishen voice to. Invested, Comas Gate the Beatles. On. Ever since Brian will ever it stayed had died a ninety seven of nineteen, sixty, seven, the beach. Businesses were And they had. They had fun company Apple Costea jobs a lot of money. On. An apple as kind of what they described as a waste of colby as A. Loss of show. Biz artists to get a fuss wrong on the lineup. But. With apple was begun to lose so much money even allowing for the endings that by the time of Johnny sex eight La Sixty, nine, Nimbus aging so much money there was a serious. Concerned. The Beatles could go bite wrote. Yeah. John Widened famously gave an interview which he said he'd be the last fifty. Which is not James. No No chickenfeed. The financials were going south. So they needed somebody to come in and run the business and these guys. We have here a bass, Guitar Rhythm Guitar Lead Guitarist, and a drummer. They are musicians coating, your nope businessman exactly the the idea of playing businessman. But those are terrible naive attached to not because they are not skilled in running corporate entities. So they needed somebody to come in and run a business empire and Alan claimed when you have when he had Lennon's coot than he setting in as a coach since office in a New York. Rubbing behind with Glee because at that point, he says one what. Gotcha yeah. Thanks. He thinks that has opening to be able to go to end and make a sales pitch to the Beatles old photos of. That he's the guy who can saw. The tangled Arcadia in finances. So he comes to London and he makes his pitch. And our clay as Betty what in a Blue Cola can a guy? You know he wasn't that much older than the? Admit it made it made a world money for other and a Medical Sam. Cook. So kind handsome Kenneth. Pedigree in endings ought to solo but also very rough around the edges going into you know kind of talk into these what it sounded like in the book anyway was these really posh London business elites. Yeah. It means very abrasive character you know known since your video incongruous guy, you know. What you guys. Tuchel neck sweat yes. Actually he actually smoked pap- I mean he could have come from a different. Yeah. When he made these sales pitch to land. You know they have a lot. They had the will of shaved. Into severe notable booth orphans can both lost their mothers very young. They had a low of a bike roads oddities. When it was an easy mocks guys like Klay above a hustler. Joined swiftly went over by claims, but I don't you with your weight. And of course, joining been so impressed because. Clean Dementia which was you money. No told Glennon that he would make Lich even more money than closest Atlanta. You. Know. I was won over by. By claims of Bliss of sales pitch. So he's landed then goes to Georgia. Rangel. and. You know. This guy. He's the guy for me I think he can sort of finances I generally speaking because join voice defined to lead to the bind George Angle cannot tended to fall. By company is a completely different situation because. Paul McCartney l'Ouest. Our NKWAIN from the start. He was a cook I everything every every fiber of these body told not to trust our coin. So at a business sense over sudden one corner. of Mr Lennon Mr Hodson and Mr Stop and then the other corner you have missed copy a nail diametrically opposed to each other over the appointment of our Queen is the Beatles manager. Copy proposed annot And they'll tend to voice he favored his. Name his future in laws which was lead. Join Smith. Come from you know who have their own the entertainment lawyers in New York very successful. With an astounding pedigree in show business in entertainment on he he favored then coming on board to try sort the Beatles finances, and of course, the Eastman's could not have been more different from coin. You know because they've leak Park Avenue Privilege, you know the An AAs video contagious on. You couldn't have been more different than the Profanity Laden Mr Clayton? You know whereas the dead things To the manor born fashion. So these these diametrically attainable dichotomy had said between them in a business sense and of course, it seeps into the music seeps into the personal life. But if a hot too hot to apportion, blame the I view our coin quiz as the Demon King of the Beatles Story. Because he was the one who pay slated McCartney into into. Opposing enough and and he didn't really come good in his promises because you know. In a business sense, the most control was on salt publishing catalog northern songs they lost to city consulting would have been up for sale in the summer of sixty nine. They also lost the opportunity to to buy names always another company attached to blind abstain. which could could have made them a lot of money Clayton guilty of false promises Bush never came to fruition. In the book a love of course, in effect in the Book Cudi. If you look at events hop into Johnny Sixty nine why phones voice the sometimes as the consequences of those events would not become clear until maybe four, five, six months turned mullane. And the involvement of our Klay on his ability to deliver these promises and piloted on the day. The Jordan. Actually a waste, the bind. Game of hunter joy all the evidence points to that, and it's more than just landed. Say don't the other unseen forces played come onto the board later in the year but they all day link to happen alien the A notch. Wife's important to draw threats from one month to the next. Throwing of BEACHELL PEBBLE INTO PU and Emanate from. It really is I mean. That's kind of the as someone who had like A. A decent history of the Beatles I've read another Beatles. Biography that wasn't as like I think one of the things that you can do because you're focused on the specific time is so detailed with it but you know I've read other ones. So I had an idea. So something like that would happen where I read something from February and I'm like, Oh, I wonder if that comes back to us with NYC October November something like that and sure enough it would one of the things that I think is really apparent because if you're a fan, you're going to read it fast but then there's just so much going on this. This is just a year full of action and it's just like They're in the boardroom having these major arguments. The next day, they're all in the studio writing an amazing song. The next week. There of getting married and they've got they've got weddings going on there traveling all over the mostly. Europe. But you know all over the place and it's just like these guys were so busy and obviously I think that that's wrapped up really well in a song like the belt of John and Yoko. Chance. ALMA. So let's veer off in that direction a little bit and talk a little bit about. What was going on outside of the scenes with John and Yoko their marriage they're in their peaceful protests that they were really trying to. You know they were using their. Public Image to do a lot of good. Yeah. Absolutely. You know ninety sixty nine was the year will join landed and Yoko Ono became probably the most famous celebrities in the world. Not. Not, so much for 'em the music because joins. Political Activism. Because obviously year of give peace a chance. And it was the year will join. Innocence became a pied paper piece for the youth culture. On a very important part to play. I, mean you mentioned about joining Yoko you. is going on a business sense. COMES, back to the music at an an an in the case of joining about joining Yoko Joylin ahead of incredible ability to compartmentalize these emotions. Before he. Had A terrible argument optical over business and yet the next day he comes out say at post hosts and say. I need to call right now? Yeah. George wasn't there. He was the country Rengo was the country really the bombing of joining. York. Who is just the two of them I watch really whale. So that example of yet again for all of his opening. A business sense that they will still be able to come together the PUN intended. To try and walk something musically. But but John Wayne is poetic of joining you'll used. Of Cain to use the celebrity. A note to form some protests? Thirteen head in a sense. and. It was a pivotal year because you know, ninety sixty, nine, eight Soviet tanks rolled into the Vicha you had. I in Beckley in America certainly potus. On, of course, the the public disquiet over the Vietnam War was Louis and apex and America was a terrible critical in terms of use culture and I. and. Young people protesting no just over Vietnam separate. So Bisley and John Wayne was able to use a celebrity to is as a major. A major influence trying to persuade walks politicians perhaps says, no, the we a signal pots. And it's interesting me. He's famous for the which most people think just crazy you know. When I go to bed for the week F- epecial and when frostbitten happened seven days after the wedding Gibraltar in mob sixty. Of course, the place invaded to come and see them spending. We can bed, and of course, facebook or Nigel who'd wait and I. Thought, they were going to see some kind of copulation taking place as that's going to happen. But. Apple be joining. You want climbed. Gordon, the message of peace on every newspaper in the United States newspapers for you know the most effective method of communication. And of course, repeated the take in Montreal in June July nineteen, sixty eight but you know and Medicare especially sexist into and univer. Think they were. Treated as a couple of eccentrics and you would eccentric as an awful God performance office. America there were treated much more seriously. As threat right. Yeah. The celebrity was given. A much more. Effective platforms saints. I it's interesting to note the in November and one of the great peace protests of Vietnam. Has something half a million people singing GIF piece of chimes say use. A very effective demonstration one mind's ability. Happy I shouldn't have started to sing it. Nevertheless it a very powerful moment. because. You know people in television digging, American magazines of seeing images of children. New running during the streets naked covered the napalm bombs. Yes. No, no kicks no good and here is John Lennon in a song trying to be a CVs advocate for peace at the end of the Vietnam War and as I say half a million and may even million admiral for told my head. Say Deflate host for Richard Nixon's. You'll hunting donen sade. Unfortunately for joining you know he's poetic to. A guarantee him in Richard Nixon's black book man of course, a terrible issues during the lane with regard to immigration. I think John Lennon typically in nineteen sixty eight as a political activist. Gotcha he had audiences awakes of Pietro in Canada. Young. gung-ho quotation and all of a sudden a begun to Kate Landon seriously. He wasn't just a crazy crazy Mokpo in a much more than. A and also he was injured for politicians. To jump people you know and and it was important and I think he's poetic away I was team. was unusual part of these. These career. Viciously. So much but an eight, sixty nine when you talk to break. Even political activism. Heritage define the time to do all these things exact yet at the same time produced to pretty good albums. Just so much going on I mean you could be exhausted just taking pro you really can and the fact that is battling a you know a drug addiction and all that kind of stuff to he's got behind the scenes that you touch on the book. He's got legal battles, not only within the band, but then with Yoko and trying to like get her divorce all settled. And I mean just the the mental capacity able to do with all that is incredible to me and just you know the simple message of just give it a chance. Have we ever? We've always given war a chance trying to give peace a chance. What if we just tried as raising a question? It's it's really phenomenal and it you kind of touched on this a little bit. With the whole the ballot of John Yoko and how that was just Paul and John. This kind of happens a few times throughout this year where it's Two of them, three of them but not all of them are there together I think there's another I can't remember which song it was, but there's a time when Hall and George and and. Ringo. But they are just you know not all of them were always there which kind of. Now that we have hindsight shows us like, yeah this was kind of starting to go in this direction. And they're all being really creative and productive without each other and I'm just kinda wondering did you have any ideas before writing that kind of change throughout your research of ood there was a sign that I haven't really seen before of this was this was coming to an end. Yeah I think he was just A. Gradual view is Asian as I said when when she began to look under the oldest story and Shane Short late under the stones and I think it was just a gradual piecing together of all the evidence to. The second did I didn't understand that. Hopping and then hosted the top and it was you is just a question of trying to understand the coin takes and the not. An the situation of the teams. And you new. You'll don't they all play together on the same tracks all. Of Advice Majority of teams. I mean join. Always play or At the Charleston. Yes, tells you something about the relationship between the middle. I again, it's open to interpretation. And it's not always very difficult to ascertain the truth behind these things even guys like Lewis in. The door of Beatles historians and it's really really difficult. In. The longer tamed is on the more difficult to become to try and establish. Some can velocity attached to the whole thing you know. So I think this almost on last show. Because PIP WOAH NOT, Thomas. Signal went misleading. So to try and get some of. These witnesses to history? No food to wait is difficult I spoke to. John Lennon had account trash and Scotland of all places in nineteen, Sixty, eight, hundred amazing part of that book because I'd just been up to that part of the country. So. Yeah. Exactly. So you know yourself is very rude always said. nope. No Cosmopolitan shape or form and I won't more than noise days undeb. Able to speak to Dr who attended join annual Lebron Hospital for a week on an agnostic, and again, it was just an example of speaking to people who were there. I get stories, the recollections, and helped to humanize the the bind in some shape or form you know. One of the things I real I was played. If. You look at the cover of Bobby? And I go to Milwaukee. image. On that are three guys down to the bottom left wedding way overdose and they were painters and decorators who just happened to be what can be rude juice day. And One of the phone and he'd never spoken about the find the. Ms almost like a grateful to bomb. Could you know for these guys crashed into the picture and the photographer? McClellan Waving. Statewide Guys police the show and then diffused to go and try to donate to negate one of the guy told me great stories of sitting in the absolute county token to the Regular guys. Yeah and all that Kinda thing nothing was was interesting for me. You know. And I do get image an SEM. Frozen in rural. Cody and it's like the. War. Poem. Age Shallow really them and I look at nights. I remember the actual. That's great and that's another thing that that you kind of go into that humanize because another aspect of that trip up to Scotland for Lenin was the. While he's in there, you know McCartney tries to call him I. Don't think that he talked to a nurse. He didn't get through the nurse was like. In disbelief that Paul McCartney called and she was talking to him but he was like, hey i. just wanted to check on John and she just passes the message on to him and and despite everything that was going on they were they were brothers they wanted to just let each other know that they cared. So you just hit the ceiling. What is I mean, these are the days of no Internet They didn't even have a foreign beside the bed. So you know you have to go through the hospital switchboard and you would ask for that condition report as I. Do not as a young journalist. The beginning the bare minimum information but there's no for the I. Think it does speak to the fight the. Even for older vine and the discord taking place in the background joining poll still loved each other and I truly believe up. I think they had the most complicated complex has. Polity and passed. By. The Beatles there's a whole although although joining poll. Of the key elements, you have four sides of the same square. and. If you take one of them away, even if it's wrinkle I'm a great defender Ringo Starr. Drumming Sensational absolute bone joined boy esque I would suggest. If you take one of them ways that doesn't walk and the Old News. And and I think. Absolutely abondoned brothers I. Think there was something. I always loved the story of the Beatles say the behind. A youngster West had discovered the music then walked into the studio and how these guys have this constellation formed to leave a musical big buying in a sense and I was looking at a love, the story and the asked why nineteen sixty nine can drew. Because just so much going on but I do think that they would abide the brothers. I. Think they genuinely loved each other. Complicated loves only families can understand and I think that I find that the Beatles. Reason people a year and I. Still, talking about buying the lot fifty years after the Louis must have something going for them. I. Think. I think finds, of Light Tub ended the same way the begun, which is Ford guys four French really loved each other and Ringo says. You got your through when you watch A. One fortunately fake and the way. Yeah. Well, the book is called ended in the end, the authors Ken mcnabb, and we we touched on a lot during this conversation. But if you if you enjoyed this, please go get the book it is like I. said I read it so fast I just enjoyed enjoyed it so much. So thank you for right in it. Thank you for research in it and thank you for coming on the show Ken. Or. My pleasure. Thank you for your questions and and for being. So Cambridge Marxist absolutely some people make being farmer. Cusak. Thank you had. had a really loved how he asked himself. If the world really needs another Beatles book before we started writing it but I can tell you that it did I really really loved the way that Ken constructed this book and I learned a lot. So if you enjoyed this episode, go by the book, tell a friend and as always for the stories one, hundred songs go to song facts dot. com. Everybody I'm Mike. And I'm Jesse Erin. And altogether, we are the tree. On the show we're going to share music that we love. We're going to discuss how punk rock has evolved in different sub genres have developed. We're GONNA talk to bands that have been influential in shaping the music industry and our lives. Sometimes. We challenge each other to dig into bands and sub-genre that we may not be into on our own. We're proud partner of the Pantheon podcast network and you could find us across all platforms and on social media at the punk tree. We have a really great time talking about music and life with each other. So please join us. Hi My name is Mike Shoe and along with Moluccan, Russ Khandan from the band town meeting, we host the long. May you young podcast on the Pantheon podcast network? This is our Neil Young cast where we mostly talk. Through four of Mr Young. It's my shoe. In. Trans- and harvest. One. A. We're pretty sure it's the only podcast that covers neil young's musical catalog album by album in order of release. Why are we doing this? Because, we have a neil problem okay. We've got the in-depth analysis, the historical context, the bad movie references they're all there. But Long May you young podcast? CHECK US out soon because it won't be long before the Pantheon folks figure out we don't know what the Hell we're doing.

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Lame AF Presidency, GOP vs God 11.10.20

The Daily Zeitgeist

1:13:56 hr | 5 months ago

Lame AF Presidency, GOP vs God 11.10.20

"Today's horoscope brought to you by geico. People will take note of your sunny dispositions. That's because you just switch to geico and discovered you could save hundreds of dollars a year on car insurance however your newfound. Inner glow may prompt unfounded rumors. Did you get a promotion. Or you want to juice cleanse. Did they give you too much anesthesia at your dentist appointment. You're a secret is safe with us. Secretary geigo fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more. The demand for tele-medicine grows so does the need for connectivity. Five g. meets that need qualcomm remains focused on giving doctors and patients superior security rich five g. Connectivity learn more at qualcomm dot com slash invention age of the internet and welcome to season one fifty nine episode two of dirty. He's i by heart. Radio this is. The park has a deep dive into american consciousness. It's tuesday november tenth. Twenty twenty seventy one days until january twentieth But who's counting. My name is jack. O'brien ak now. This is a story. All about how pennsylvania turn blue flipped upside down. And i'd like to do this intro. Sit right there. I'll tell you how this became the place that turned around this affair and west philadelphia. The differences made where they kept counting ballot and it lasted for days counting all the votes them relaxing all cool because the ballots that were mailed in. We're just as valid to then a campaign of lies. They were up to no good start filing lawsuits in the neighborhood. Then loss just one little fighting. Donald got scared. He said fuck this shit. I won't leave. And i don't even care that's shot up. Thrilled to be joining. As america hosts mr miles smiles gray. A home so fucking tired from fucking years of doing this show i. I'm going to have a good podcast aka to start the next one. I'm just so i'm tired. Yeah so extra award right now. I look kristi yamaguchi. May i see you. I sees you with that ether aka. I promise you. I'm gonna bless everybody. Would that second either verse. But for now i'm just miles just hanging out with y'all thanks for having me somebody else who gives us ether. Who writes ethers for us is Our third seat today come in to us all the way from north of the border. I think canada's. She is the brilliant the talented jam. Mcnair a hey. hey going. may you're welcome jam. You're welcome canada. You're well save you're s. What is this what was that like. What's it like being up here during election. Same right. I did look up like because i was watching cable news like everyone to see how is all playing out and i saw the celebrations in the streets and then i so i looked up to see because i don't leave my house anymore. Yeah uh-huh same all the stuff. So i looked up on twitter to see if there was a celebration in toronto at all and there a small a small gathering but they're immediately dwarf by like an anti mask rally. That was happening downtown in toronto in toronto. Yeah oh me We freaky friday with you guys. I think that's what's going to happen anymore. More pete in the same fountain and there was a magical fountain. Yeah that's that's how the switcheroo happens in that movie. The switcheroo i think the one switch movie with jason bateman that nobody saw they peed in the fountain and he found with ryan ryan reynolds and then lake the like. The point of switcheroo. Movies is supposed to be that. Unlike people have to live in the body of somebody. They're not like and jason bateman. I'm ryan reynolds two guys. Who are like cocky. Like same aged white guys switcheroo. It's a different kind of handsome now. Exactly adorable now. All right well jam. We're going to get to know you a little bit better in a moment first. We're going to tell our listeners. A couple of things we're talking about. We're talking about the covid. Nineteen vaccine that was announced that is ninety percent effective which i didn't know whether to be impressed by that or not. We'll tight ship in you you things. That's very suspicious. That vaccine was announced after the election. Yeah oh now you got back. I mean to be honest. If i was a trump supporter. I definitely would be like. Oh yeah and if. I was adviser on my year. Forget we did that. Yeah seriously if you're a company that thrives on believing in science. I think you're within your rights. We're gonna talk about the terrifying things. The president is doing today. we're gonna talk about why this transition is going to be a fucking mess and some historical precedent for that. We'll talk about the trump supporters. How they're digging in their heels. They've already spun off from this version of reality. Michelle bachmann is calling out. God himself a word. That's the stage. We're at like other. People are trying to speak to the man omaha. Ha oh man. We're going to talk about one conspiracy theory jim you you looked into. If you hear people talking about the hammer and the scorecard get ready to just heavier brain filled with a load of wild bullshit. We'll talk about that bars. Yeah yeah the hammer. And the score. Got the scorecard or the hammer scorecard. Alright alright. The hammer is a socialist bar but the score is the opposite. They're on opposite in corners. Wayne's in wayne's world two where they held the fundraiser for wayne stock number like it was like member like that party they had. It was like a lennon. Themed bar like monuments handled lead announcer. We'll be a communist party. I remember was a joke. And i was like this show sick. I love that movie saint. louis. Mccloskey's checking in with the mccloskey's of saint homeless There in the running. They're definitely in the running to be nominated for twenty twenty s most notable shitty white people. They probably don't have a chance with just the year that we've had but they're a they could be nominated Jam before we get to any of that. What's something from your search history that will allow us to judge you. Oh wow well. Yeah i guess you can judge for this new tone on the top. Yeah i like to have your search history right here and it says i been watching a lot of murder. She wrote this fall. Hell yes i find it. It's a lot of anxiety. There's too i because i was really trying to unpack. Why i find it so calming. I think it's because you can watch an episode and everything gets solved. You know forty two minutes or whatever. Yeah and you don't know limit in cove where the murder rate is the highest in the entire history of the world of any town a week. Everyone in that town is having an affair with everyone else. Everyone's plotting to kill. It's the worst place to live. But yeah it's very calming oddly and also like i find like my anxiety about like aging and mortality are oddly soothed by it. Because you think bert. Angela lansbury like she's been she still alive and she's been an old lady my entire life. She's still alive wild man she then. She came here to toronto and did like a stage. Show like a play a few years ago. And i wish i had gone now but Angela lansbury still alive. Yeah i mean. I hope nothing we record this. She's ninety five hell ya Wow good are you angela. So yeah that that. That makes me happy. So i've been watching. British tweeted something out about it. And someone responded. A that's angela. Lansbury is daughter. Used to hang out with charles manson. So i googled that that was something that i felt. I had to look into it and it was just something she liked. Dropped in an interview for no reason. She just brought up. It's like charlie. Oh yeah yeah. We used to kick it with charlie. Yeah i remember. We were while writing songs together for a little bit. It's a shame those albums never got traction. But have you heard those. Manson family recordings steady beach. Boys it's like yeah. Yeah we'll see it one of unsettling hanging out with him. Yeah dennis hays bird or a super producer called him daynuss dennis. He's a burger. Yeah what's funny how. This is a complete aside. How our idea of dennis hays birt has evolved over time based on how old you are like. If you're a consuming eighties media you know him from major league joe nice and just think he was joe boo not even pedro serrano which was his actual player name but joe buddha idol he would forget all kinds of fucked up problematic and then after that when he was on twenty four announced. Oh my god joe booze. Working still and then people like dennis. Hays bird is putting in a performance. Like oh shit. Dennis hays bird but then some people only know him as the allstate guy. Yeah i don't know. Dennis as dave chapelle played him in a sketch over the weekend. Which is why we're talking about it. is pretty funny voice. Changer on snl. Oh by the way. Have you seen The original the manchurian candidate. Yes lansbury is in a very pretty but also playing an older woman in in one thousand nine hundred sixty two. She's playing it's not like she's like a young like you know the love interest. She's the love interest of the older politician and like pulling the strings behind the scenes. Choose only like ten years older. Than laurence harvey who played her son. That movie really. Yeah they still since she had old lady energy back then. Yeah oh. She was his mom not his wife. Yeah i think she was as mild. That's right because he was like a young soldier. Yeah alright what do you think is underrated. My underrated overrated are pretty like kid centric. because again. I haven't left the house so i spend ninety percent of my time with my kids these days. Yeah spend ninety percent of your time with your kids. that's all all the big or small children and luckily they're super cool. And i love them so that that worked out. But it's hard though man kid brent you like when you're only hanging out with kids like you get kid brain and the like my wife was out of town for a couple weeks and it was just me and my kids and like i when i would get back around adults i would be like just incapable of like saying anything like that made sense or i was just like on a different wavelength back from episodes the last couple weeks. Yeah the baby mueller. Yeah i find sometimes. Like i'll just say i'll say to a friend or even my wife i'll accidentally call them buddy on but anyway well anyway underrated i was i put i found in my old room in my parents house. I found my old waldo books. Where's waldo so. I brought those home. Kids love them. And i found them very again again. A lot of things are built like alleviating anxiety for some reason. But like i i got into them to. I found it very like stress relieving. Just sit there for a few minutes to try to find waldo. Yeah and i know you don't have to only find waldo you can go deep as a as a. Where's waldo stan For a couple months ago. Actually there's like lists of things free to look for so you like once you find waldo. It's not over you can still explore. Yeah you could find a guy in the grassy knoll. Those books i remember i. It's funny that you mentioned that. Because i remember the when i was like eighteen or something i'd picked up one of my old. Where's waldo things that hadn't maybe looked at like six and it's amazing. How immediately like you remember the ones you really like the one i think like the for second whereas waldo book but there's like a beach one that i'm like all this was my favorite one to stare at for whatever reason and i remember how at a certain point you begin to memorize vaguely where waldo was every time you opened it as a kid so they were kind of become less stimulating. Ray i remember one time. Some asshole circled waldo in my book. Almost beat motherfucker to death with the book. Because i was like fuck. Do not desecrate this book by marking where he is. That's the fucking fun or else. It's it's useless now. And i ripped the sheet out and i was crying. I was a mess man. Leave my fucking waldo books alone. I'm sorry i brought that up now. I feel like so your kids are young right there. Yeah once five and wants to. Yeah i now feel very stupid. Because i think i was still looking at the like. I can picture the bedroom. That i was in when i was looking at them and that was in that bedroom from like when i was eight until when i was like thirteen some of those hard man was mental. Where's waldo difference between the first one and like the third and fourth one is crazy. Like i was legitimately having trouble with the later ones. He's like you know you could see like a sliver of his head in this the first one. He's just like you know like two inches taller down the street. There is like walking cane or then they do the ones where like someone would have his hat on. And you're like they're even it's somebody in this fucking outfit Doing decoys into the mix. Yeah what is something. You think is overrated. Yeah overrated in the same vein of steph have been doing with my kids. Someone gave my son and extra sketch recently. Okay and i remember it. Various algae from being a kid and it sucks. It's useless products. You can't draw good pictures with it. If you do somehow managed to twist the knobs into making a good picture like you can ever save it it someone will jostle. It will be gone forever and my kids have no interest in it either because i tried to explain why they say what do you what do you do with it and i say well. It's like drying with the piece of paper and a crayon except it's worse than his harder and there's no applications for the real world tuning shitty radio and yeah that's it it's like what's good for about like maybe one. I remember as because i had to. And i only could fuck with it for maybe one minute before. I became so frustrated. That i could not actually do what i thought i was able to do. Because you have to really have to be able to make sense of those knobs and how. They're moving to like actually draw something half the time. I'll just twist him in circles and make wild shit. And then i twist the knob so like they're like endpoint and like breakdown on angry clicking. Yeah i was a knob boy. Growing up a lump sum love to good knob game the labyrinth. And even i really with that. It's just get ob- city in op city but there are definitely people who are into it but i feel it gets older people who are like really artistic and it's they're into it for the same reason that like knitting is like soothing whereas like it makes it gives you an extra challenge like do something fun and artistic i. Yeah i never got the got the point of that shit when i was younger. Did you play the labyrinth game a lot. Yeah yeah was. He did real into labyrinth. I could go to the end and back like four times because that used like similar skill set. Were sort of deciding those planes based on the knobs but that was always easier for me to like put the time into versus. Like 'cause i was. I'm not good at drawing anyway. It just it was a reminder of health on like lack of little talent. i had in that department. I'm sorry i brought that up to it's tall. Not as easy as they look man. They're not as easy as they look for it all right. Let's talk about Some really good news that just hit so pfizer announced that they got their early results. Back from there Vaccine trials and early numbers suggest that this vaccine they're working on is ninety percent effective Which is apparently good news. Dr fauci was like hell yet. So that's that's how i knew is good news but then like i did a little bit more research. The flu shot is apparently between forty and sixty percent effective based on like whatever year you get it because they're having to regenerate to apply to that year's strain of influenza and then like the vaccines that actually a radical diseases like polio and measles are like in the ninety s that are like polio. Was ninety two doses. Measles is ninety nine percent So that's that's pretty prompted. A numbers pretty exciting. Yeah so long as scientists are excited you know yeah yeah it seems like scientists are excited just like what's the what's the science excitement meter. Say the so the lab. That kind of made the breakthrough is called biontech which sounds very Scary and like dystopia. But they were funded by the german government and a european investment bank So that's the the trump administration obviously has jumped on billick. See operation warp speed with the speediest mayor. Fucking really trying to. I don't know what they're trying to dave. It's like i don't understand this. All this would have happened because trump. And i know talking about that because this is all the we should all be thinking trump right now. But they're really really really trying to commandeer this development to try and be like you see and that's why he is should have been elected. I don't know it's too late now no matter what they think. They're trying to say like you know no one gets election. Yeah right there's no vaccine now guys. oh interesting. Well i guess we'll just go with our vaccine. Then yeah we'll go with ours which will be better. Pfizer specifically came out was like that nothing to do. We had nothing to do with operation warp speed but wasn't so hence trying to say he did it wasn't it. They were responding to him right specifically. I think he came out was like. You're welcome america. To shot up. Mike pence outta here i to hear from you and this my wife. That ship But yeah fox on fox and friends. I mean fox. They're still i. The only self been doing is watching one. America news and fox because self. I don't know why that's been the thing that's only made me smile is to be like y'all are you've truly you through everything except the kitchen. Sink your through that now and you're still grasping at shit trying to make sense of but on monday morning. Charles pain Who's you know just on making money. On fox business he was talking ainsley earhardt on For friends and again you know. Because it's fox. Everything has to be some kind of grievance or older improvement was with the whole time ainsley earhardt to sort. It starts off by being again. Oh so they're announcing this now After will and she she posits. A question is the timing curious. Are you finding the timing curious. We had an election a week ago. I am finding the timing curious. It's frustrating also interesting. I was watching tackling around. Tv yesterday watching a couple of games. Or whatever and i saw a commercial for sixty minutes. And they said we're going to go to the military's operation warp speed. The military's they're they're they're actually operating at the at the has the president trump. And then i then. There's an article this morning before this came out. That was shifting sort of operation warp speed to bite now. The washington post biden advisors met with sharp with the warp speed drugmakers before the election. But what. I thought was intriguing is on the biden. Website says operation warp speed laxest strategy to see its mission through and gain the trust of americans. Well i wonder what they're gonna say. They're going to tell people not to take this vaccine. The pfizer saying is ninety percent of the active has nothing to do with operation speeding lake. That's what he met with people in it and now he's saying but he said it wasn't good yeah. This guy is transitioning into power. So he's trying to see what the fuck is going on. Yeah so also but decided present affective so if so facto operation warp speed is ninety percent effective now. Just supposing for a moment and this is going to. I'm asking you guys to wrap your mind around a reality where the deep state and corporations aren't trying to take trump down from the inside but like even then i feel like it would almost be excusable for them to hold off on announcing a successful vaccine until like would no longer be associated with him because he's been so anti-scientific and it's going to be at struggle to get people to take this vaccine like. Yeah because it's developing the vaccine is about like the implementation of it right the distribution of it. So yeah like. I mean like you said like so much of it as about how many people will take it about making sure that it's effective so you have having a future where someone who won't totally fucked up we'll be in power is seems key to that message that they're trying to send. Yeah yeah and so. Many people are like you know the razor thin margins. Joe biden won by would have been completely erased. Had this been announced just one week sooner and it's like they're not razor thin right you check the numbers i wanna know. What kind of razors. Y'all are looking at. But these are pretty thick daddy and even like the way the head of research or the vp in charge of Like vaccinations at pfizer's like unequivocal unequivocal as she was saying we've never been part of it. And we've never taken a dime from the us government or from anyone to even suggest we'd be part of it wasn't just like not that didn't happen. It's like do you understand how that program worked like. We weren't anyway. So i think i think they did walk that back a bit later because they they said that the us government did pay for like the future like distribution like buying supplies to people. Yeah it's like it's not. They didn't fund them at all in terms of like they're testing or the research all independently financed or financed by themselves. The overpriced drugs the other drugs. They make that are overpriced. Eighty dollars so the way the trials worked was actually easier to get your head around than expected or easier to get my head around. So they've they've given the trial and both forty three thousand people and half of them are given this new vaccine and half of them are given a placebo for the meningitis facts and neither they nor their doctors know which is which and then since then ninety four people who were involved in the study have become infected with covid nineteen and ninety percent of them are from the placebo group. So that's where the ninety percent number comes from. Is that the people who got the actual vaccine were ninety percent more likely to not come down with covid So there you go. That's how video on tiktok were a cute blonde woman was saying the microchip was gonna get into you and she was crying. And then apparently some off camera government goons were beating up. Did you see the video where she's singing along to the song court like yeah. It's wow And yeah that's it to your point. I don't even know how the his own supporters believe like. He's he's the boy who cried hoax. So many god damn times. Nobody knows anything anymore. Like it truly was like is it mele in our. Is the mail in vote fucked. So i don't do that and then the vaccines no good. But then i don't you. But i gotta give you credit. 'cause you saved us seems kind of been capable of the sort of leadership that they say like you are supposed to have during a global pandemic is steady staying on the same message and then like deferring to the scientists and the doctors and since he's incapable of that i feel like this is in better hands with almost literally any other politician but definitely a new administration. All right let's take a quick break. We'll come back. Hey miles it jack. From were thank. You interrupted me. Yeahs listening to something. Okay go on. Yeah i have that ability takeover top. Yeah it's it's a little unnerving programs put on my computer but you have. Yes you've granted yourself that ability just pop in on me and somehow my microphone is on and then we ended up talking about something. Well today i wanna talk to you about a product that is helping us bring the daily desires to people in more ways than one There's sponsor they are also one of the products that i use to give my brain. The fuel it needs water rounds. Sounds like i'm talking about of substance. I am in fact talking about audible. Yes yeah you guys know about audible is the leading provider spoken-word entertainment and audio books. I have too many audiobooks going right now. Named all right. I've got berlin alexanderplatz. I got we wish to inform you that tomorrow we will be killed with our families. I got sapiens. I got other up. Blessing stuff yeah. Yeah yeah yeah. I'm listening to a woman by bell hooks which is really a seminal piece of black feminist writing That sometimes i've read it. I want to hear it because like it's interesting how much you can pick up using your eyes versus your ears. Sometimes totally different experiences. I have done the same thing with books that i've read with my eyes and then reread with my ears. And you pick up new stuff. That's a great point miles Thank you thank you. You're welcome. I also want to talk about stories. Audible dot com I've taken a couple of road trips now. There were no longer flying with the kiddos and stories. don't audible dot com has the winnie the pooh stories. For free no strings attached. So my kid 'n sync to winnie the pooh though. Is that a insinkable. Oh yes it's the one with bye-bye on it. But i digress. Okay anyways it is. It's a great product. It's a great resource. These are these are awesome tools. We get what can we hook up the gang with the people who aren't up on the audible so what we can offer them miles. I'm so glad you asked is go visit audible. Dot com slash. Td's e or text to five hundred five hundred for a free trial again that is audible dot com slash. Td's or texts td's td two five hundred five hundred gang have a book whole not collective butthole but each individual but holes will. Then this is for you. It's hard to believe that when we go to the bathroom in this country most of us white instead of wash for years. Today's a bit available but hideously expensive thousands of down for the hello she modern bidet attachment is here to democratize the blessings bestowed by offer cleave. But all to have ringwald hello to she cleans your but with a precise stream branch war for seventy nine dollars. It attached to your existing toilet requires no electricity or additional plumbing and cuts toilet. Paper used by sir. So they'll hello. Steve day pays for itself it a few months pay miles match. Joe opening their shower at not turning on the water just wiping your body. With dry paper people would call you fool off so why would dry toilet paper instead of washing with water so go to hello toshi. Dot com slash. Td's e to get ten percent off. This is a special offer for our listeners. Go to hello tissue. Dot com slash. Td for ten percent off. Hello toshi dot com slash. Td's ea and were back. So trump is out here throwing grenades right out the right out the gate. he's a. He fired his secretary of defense. Right just out fucking tweet on monday morning. I am pleased to announce that christopher's miller highly respected director of the national counterterrorism center unanimously confirmed by the senate senate. We'll be acting secretary of defense effective. Immediately chris will do a great job. Mark asper has been terminated. I would like to thank him for his service. We knew was everyone was like the second mark expert. Didn't like fully go along with the black lives matter like troop goon squad in the streets. Sort of Strategy that i think the countdown clock began because he was basically saying. Like yeah in my capacity as the fucking secretary of defense. I do not think. Us troops should be in the streets to put down protests. I don't think that's the function of the military. As i know it so now seems like everyone's like okay. Well who's next. And the money is on christopher at the fbi and genus bowl at the cia. So next to me wired. Yeah yeah he's going to do more impulse firings or whatever just whatever. He thinks he's going to get out of it aside from is there a chance that it's not impulse than that. It's like part of a plan to install people who will allow him to you know do some military of course and then just but then a lot of people like everyone's so deflated in that machine that yeah you're going to get there and there's there's clearly some fans of the president That are in positions of power that are willing to completely fucking dig their heels in shit but yeah i. I don't know it's like so hard he always has. There's always some plan to do something with this guy and then it's always like this shittiest version of it like even again with the total landscaping for seasonal thing. One of the guys was literal sex offender who was one of the witnesses that he wasn't from philadelphia. Either jersey or something. He's from new jersey and he's ran like he said unsuccessful. Runs for office in new jersey. Before and it's like there. I think this is where they're at so so the who knows total landscaping thing was them being. We have witnesses to election fraud. And here's a witness and people looked into it and they're like yo. This man is a straight up sex offender almost four years for like lewdness in endangering the welfare of a minor exposing himself to kids like like. That was the person they're like this. This is our witness to fuck out front. Our last stand is gonna be a a sex offender speaking in the back of an alley this next to sex store right. Crematorium induced incidental offender. That sex store is like doing really well. Apparently they keep facebook. and they're thrilled with the publicity officer. There's a silver lining to the story the ritz carlton dildo shop. I think it's all right. Let's let's talk about just where what we're looking at for this transition there is a gsa gsa stands for an act. Like i'm quizzing you guys. Even though i just don't know what. Come on jack. General services administration station there. You got it. So they're not releasing the funds for biden to start putting his transition team together there on the on. The trump train of none of this is happening trump won. How dare you haw other words. Just you know not not engaging with that reality we were talking about. How like the president to have lost re election. The incumbent of lost re election in our lifetime are just one right. it's just george. H w bush and one term. Yeah and he was able to like he really went out of his way to be like. We're gonna like do the right thing we're going to be above the fray all the shit and like that's kind of what you need because people are like the people in the administration. Do you remember the story of. When after the second term of the clinton administration when the george w bush administration was coming in the clinton administration like removed all the ws from the keyboards. As like a fuck you yeah was like people are petty. And like if you don't have a leader who's like out front being like you're like this. This is how democracy works them like knock it off. Then this is going. We're going to have a complete shit show which i think we're headed for. Yeah and this woman who's running a general survey. Gsa she's she comes from the fucking rnc. You know what i mean. And she's full on you know just here to to. I don't know go along with this narrative like now now who on yet. So i'm not doing anything and this money specifically like when you have a new administration coming in. They need some cash. You know to start fucking creating office spaces to begin planning out the transition to do all the business that a presidential administration would do brand. It's just just sitting on ten million dollars like not releasing it because you want to just say that like they said an ascertainment has not yet been made in terms of like like what is actually going on with this stonewalling so cool. Well if you say like a mall security guard trying to sound official then it becomes more official sir. An ascertainment has not yet been made with regards to the electoral situation. We're not going to get out in front of the president on transition issues. Right now because. He's crying. Interestingly the last time that there was like basically an outright hostile kind of transition was hoover to fdr and like hoover was like this. Guy's gonna fucking with this new deal thing he's gonna tank america like we're so screwed like just believed that he was like the last man standing between the end of america and you know the the bang-up job he was doing but he was just openly like trying to convince fdr the like his way of dealing with the economy was the right way which was like a more or conservative politics Earn more conservative financial setup. He was also would also like make statement in the media. About like how fdr was like not doing the right thing and like was not listening to him and he was leaking thing. Kind of a shitty guy. Which like i would have. If somebody had told me that i would have been like. Yeah but like who had the last laugh. Fdr came in and just like had his way but one thing that kind of gets forgotten is that during back then. It was a four month. Lame duck period just because it took people long time to get to dc back then like yeah to write. It did take probably musical papers. Boxes and boxes of papers but during that four month. Lame duck period. Fdr was on february. Fifteenth in miami and an unemployed bricklayer fired shots at an open convertible where roosevelt was seated next to chicago. Mayor anton cermak and a woman in the crowd actually hit the gunman's arm as he was shooting. And that's the only reason that like it didn't kill. Fdr the bullet struck the chicago mayor and the chicago mayor died a few weeks later. So who might wow. Yeah but that's the sort of thing you know. There's that van jones. Ted talk that i was talking about at the end of last week about how important the concession speeches and like having the lame duck president by into you know the transition of the peaceful transition of power because there is just so much energy and so much anger among people who are on the losing side. That like. you're gonna. You're gonna have problems like that. Yeah well especially because they think it's going to be nineteen eighty-four or something suddenly right. What are you talking about real. Okay yeah it's gonna make me get healthcare booking like like probably relieve some debt. I don't know man. I don't i'm not. I'm not win this. It's weird. how the energy they're talking about. Certain policies like on on when trump came into office. You're like oh my god. Immigrants are going to be fucking savage. Like they're going to be treated like in just in the most inhumane ways Islamaphobia is going to be on the rise of black and brown people will have to consider their protection with such an open in office and these were like out not make me get my soya injections were like all culture worshiped tucker carlson or someone. Who's like joe biden is going to make everyone drinks starbucks. Yeah yeah it's worse thing you can think of. Yeah yeah i mean. It is pretty bad starbucks coffee. I would for something a bit better. Yeah yeah yeah. But i mean yeah just listening to the despair and terror and anger from like trump voters who were being interviewed over the weekend. Just but but without any real. They're they're like there wasn't a an explanation for what they were afraid of or upset about other than that. They think that biden cheated too. And that's a that's a very necessary. Step you need to keep your outrage up right if if you if you hit the wall like sort of even if you're completely like into some other narrative the logic road ends when you're like whoa. Yeah what evidence you know like the. I mean they did it. I know that much. But i guess that's been enough for the last four years for these people but they're also there seems to be also frustration too because if you're getting owned by your liberal co workers and family members on like facebook and you're like yeah just show me anything and you can't then it's or even like did you see who tweeted at the president who was like sir you're the president you can send the troops in. You need to just do more than tweet. Cleese who is sir. And i don't know man. Alex trebek's take it away one more time losers in other words it's all just very very it's an interesting period for all involved for people trying to transition into this new administration and other people. I guess transitioning into more absurd form of sir reality. So what stops him from sending the troops in liquid. Is it just his route. Were counting on his republican colleagues and the generals to night. Why i think what happens is he says something and not. Everyone's like yeah. Yeah yeah do that shit like because the stuff that they are they get done but there's clearly enough there's enough people who are sort of like Also like you pissed off all the generals so like well you can give that order like who knows if they're going to drag their feet because they don't want to do this. I don't know i mean it seems that the he's he's just rapidly losing political capital especially now that like most people have accepted the results even if they haven't out loud or in the media to try and keep the base up. But it's just like you know they're not fired up like like it was twenty eighteen or something. He also just seems exhausted like he does not seem like he could be out there screaming from the balcony. You know staging this coup like he just seems like tired and and i don't know if it's true but there's that report that he's just like eating way too much even more fast food than usual and aids are like having like scented candles in the white house to to deal with the constant order but just like that's a that's an excuse me up to the daily mail article today so i don't know i like to think it's true but i just don't see like him even having the resolve this point to do something that dramatic like i just see him whining and moaning and yeah just going on twitter until they have to throw him out or someone like him. Just goes to fucking mar-a-lago and just doesn't come back. Whatever who gives them they'll send my shit at the winter white house. It's still the thing we'll see. I mean i think the thing that be very telling is what these rallies look like. Because that's the next. That's the next step we're hearing is while the lawyers are out there. Filing just fucking wack ask. Non-substantive cases are lawsuits to try and get a recount or up and the results which is going to happen. He is saying or they're all saying that he wants to get out there and do some rallies to really keep energy but like they're saying like in a couple weeks and if you're smart you're like dude. You don't have a couple of weeks like if you're gonna be doing that you needed to be out there every day since tuesday. He's too tired like did you hear him like the interviews gave on election day he sounded like harvey firestone. Or something. Like is no froggy. I think there's gonna be a lot of energy at those at those rallies just based on like what you're hearing from from the people who voted for him. They really think that they're like they fully believed the the elections being stolen from them. Which you know from the people. Yeah yeah yeah. Yeah that's like. He should not joe biden. Should not be cruising around and convertibles right. That's right with the mayor chicago. Yeah well i just wanna say just. To further demonstrate how deep people are going to go into their own minds and into the spiritual realm to train. Correct this result. Michelle bachmann the wonderful horse. Shit congressperson from minnesota. She is just out here. I'm just gonna play this She's on her self videos. Just trying to get god. Wake up god please. I ask god. Did you take your iron rod. And i ask that you would smash the clay jar of deceit in america smash the clay jar of delusion in the united states of america. Please do mass delusion please. Other of joe biden is our president. He is not. Would you take your iron rod and smash the strong delusion that nancy pelosi does have her house of representatives. we don't know that smashing in smash lord the takeover review senate by chuck schumer lord. Smashed it with your iron rod smash smash smash is well. We need fucking god to come through with. Please please please dumb dominatrix. Daddy smashed me with your iron raw. I can bust out clay jar of delusion. It's yeah so now. We're praying for god to change the news narrative. I don't know that seems to be more prevalent. Among adults on that side of the aisle than i would have expected maybe everywhere but the this notion of god as somebody who does things for you and like you can appeal to your for sports. Wins and stuff god. We didn't ask for a single thing during the pandemic just got as santa claus. Got politics santa claus. Yes yeah foof i mean. That's how most people become atheists. Yeah like if you're raised around religion you're like what happens and then you're gonna pray and you're gonna get something or what happened ways this this do died so i could cause i'm gonna jerk off. Ray is why he died. I'm sorry this is a lot to handle and already i. I very vividly remember when god left my life when i wanted a mother. Motherfucking nintendo for christmas. And i prayed because in my school i went to lutheran school. And that's how they're setting up this relationship to you. And god you pray and then god will answer you blah blah blah blah. Okay cool motherfucking nintendo. Because i'm trying to play battle. Totes and i didn't get it and i was done. I my heart turn black. Nothing could happen. Even if i did get mario paint in a super nintendo the following christmas the ship had set sail and i was going into the darkness of godless world. So yeah but even then it's you you hate to. You hate to see it for those people. I do feel like the you know expecting them to come around to any version of reality where trump loss is like expecting christians to be like. Yeah you know what. Jesus did get pony by punches. Pilot like i just think is not happening for them like that's their brain is never going to go in that direction. If it's the same narrative they should they should look at truly as a trump as a christ figure. Because i'm sure somebody was like Jesus i would hate to tell you this but you are the son of god. You don't have to be crucified right now. You know you don't have to do this right now just so you know. I don't wanna see this. But if they're going to do it then maybe he does have to do that. And then go to mar-a-lago for four years then he will be risen except out from that cave. They went tomorrow lago but his body was not. There was going to the way with justice shroud with orange makeup stains. Let's take a quick break. We'll come back and talk about that. Hey miles jack from work. I want to talk to you about brushing your teeth again. I told you about this. It's a scientific is a medical condition. I have is this ulcer. So that's you know. And i told you i don't believe that but so instead of with fruit in the foot by my mouth in my mouth at night instead of me paying you to stop doing that in quarters every time you brush fine there is a new way To reward yourself brushing your teeth with the quit. Smart brush for adults and kids award isn't just not having cavities. And keeping all your teeth in your mouth. There's that for some people. I'm not gonna name names. That's not enough so you. This isn't enough for me. You can track when and how. Well you brush. Get tips and coaching to improve your habits. And if you already have equipped you can update it with a smart motor and keep the features you know and love my favorite feature of my existing toothbrush is how sleek it is. It's not like one of those electronic toothbrushes that is like the size of a jackhammer. Yes just like taking up your entire bathroom sink. This one actually got a compliment from my wife. She hasn't complemented anything. That i own a long time so this was big big for me. Quipped doesn't have toothbrushes. Either you can fill out your entire grill routine. You want mint or watermelon toothpaste. They got that floss that comes in a refillable dispenser to reduce waste. They have that plus. You can get brush head toothpaste and floss refills. Delivered from five dollars in shipping is free. You know how smart it is because you're smart already so smart recognize smart guys start getting rewards for brushing your teeth today and go to get quick dot com slash. Td now to get your first refill free. That's your first refill free at get quip dot com slash. Td z. spelled. G. e. t. q. u. i. p. com slash. Td's e quinn better oral health and rewarding. Hey guys it's jack from the podcast. You're listening to O'brien yup so the fact is more than one hundred nine million americans experience cybercrime last year and victims spent more than five hundred million hours trying to resolve their issues. I know that sounds like a number. I'd just made up because five hundred million is the highest. I can count. But that's actually the number that they found when studying this That's a lot of victims spending a lot of time dealing with cybercrime and they're more cyber threats every day popping up. It's hard to know how to help. Protect your devices online privacy and identity in today's connected world and that's why there's norton three sixty with lifelock it provides seamless protection for your digital life giving device security identity theft protection of vpn for online privacy and more plus. If there's an id theft problem a dedicated us-based restoration agent will work to fix it for you now. No one can prevent all cybercrime and identity theft but norton. Three sixty with lifelock is your trusted ally in today's connected world so sign up for norton three sixty with lifelock membership today and you can save twenty five percent or more off your first year. Go to norton dot com slash. Td's e that's norton dot com slash td for twenty five percent off and we're back and jam you you dove in did some research into this conspiracy theory that starting to crop up more and more. That's called the hammer or around a computer. A supercomputer called the hammer and a piece of software called the scorecard. That comes from this dude. Dennis montgomery is fascinating figure. I didn't know about yeah me neither. I thought this was really fascinating he runs. Of course we know now. He runs the deep state. Computer that hacked all the votes and gave biden the win which is called the hammer and i guess the software is called the The scores suffer scorecard. But yeah i guess this a pickup traction like bannon and people have been talking about it on podcasts and like i searched on twitter and certainly there are a lot of like either botts or you know sort of all right trolls. Tweeting about About the hammer. But so it's all kind of based on the idea that this whistle blower dennis montgomery who used to be like a cia contractor. Yeah was was kind of blowing the lid off of this hammer computer narrative. It's so easy to just look him up like he has a wikipedia page. That just has all of these crazy exploits city has been involved with like the tackiest one was after nine eleven in the early two thousands. He got more than twenty million dollars in government contracts for his patented software that would quote fine terrorist plots in hidden and broadcast aljazeera. That's walk. He got how much weight that the government paid more than twenty million dollars. He said like you could like freeze. Al jazeera shows and like decode the pixels on the tv. That would give you times and coordinates for where to find the next terrorist plot and this wasn't just like a random thing they paid money for and didn't heed. The advice of like flights were grounded as a result of this like counter-terrorist operation Went through on obama's inauguration day. Apparently because of this like and it was just obviously a total scam like it's con. That's so brilliant though of weaponising islamaphobia for your con job. It's almost wait. Yasser lesser does would like for doors for freedom about being like what's his i'll tell liza fedora. To show your an ally of the black lives matter movement get up all weaponized and this was like. Oh yeah just so you know because you have your so afraid of Of of muslims. That i have a thing that will d scramble. Their tv shows and reveal the hidden message. Because you already are so fucking far gone. They like yep. that's pigs. Lhasa you the reality so people say about like the devil working through human when we were kids neville does work through email. Okay yeah yeah. And there's other things like he was gonna keep it movin jam too. Hung up on the devil doesn't come on. He was like a confidential informant. For for sheriff george pyo who like conned him out of one hundred and twenty thousand dollars claiming to he conduct pyo out of one hundred twenty thousand. Yeah exactly using his super computer to To prove a conspiracy between Like the the judge in his racial discrimination case and the prosecutor no and here's something desperate racists. Yes guys kind of a hero yeah. It's kind of amazing really. I mean i don't know why this isn't like a podcast or a miniseries or something. It's unbelievable. I can't believe this guy actually exists and has gotten that rich off of this stuff which how does he now factor into the this election. Will you see the main ingredient. And all of these is that he has a supercomputer called the hammer that he's able to use to deal who's been using the hammer he created longtime ago. She's a con computer. God tony stark. And he has been using the hammer to like dig and all the information and decode al jazeera and now for biden yet now. He's claiming that they. I think he's claiming that they used his computer to steal the the election and now he's like blowing the whistle. Yeah yeah exactly. There's even more stuff. There's even more stories but Yeah it's it's worth reading about because just a fascinating seekers and just also like the idea that he's one of the earliest like his. His kind of theories are are. One of the conspiracies is that people are using this election when there's just so many examples of him literally using the same supercomputer narrative in these bonds. It's it's amazing. It's hilarious and yeah please please make this miniseries with paul giamati or something. I one thing is. I don't think anyone would like the people who are buying into the idea. That biden uses supercomputer to steal. The election are probably not skeptical of the idea that he could use his supercomputer to decode aljazeera and find out the coordinates of the next terror attack. Like that. that's true. Yeah yeah yeah. Of course man. This guy's a credible source. He's the guy who found all those attacks in that reality because their lives are so boring. All of the data is out there for them to solve crimes from the comfort of their homes right. I mean it's actually you just pause aljazeera and you look at that and that's how you save the country actually if you just go to this pizza restaurant and check out the basement you might be able to stop a child trafficking ring actually if you just look at the first letter of each word in. This article is spells out. The storm is coming. therefore it's like. Oh wow so if nothing requires expertise than everyone's an expert with all this shit. It does feel like all these conspiracies are coming from. Someone just like looking around there. There is a pizza pizza parlor conspiracy and tv and right it just like shitty verbal kint from usual. Yeah yeah. I mean literally what they did because like the whole pizza get conspiracy came from a email dump right. It's like they the wikileaks email dump and they just went through the random boring monotonous day-to-day shit. That people email about and like crafted a conspiracy out of that Let's talk about the mccloskey's real quick. I always liked them. They're going through it. Yeah really going through it for them. Yes um if you don't know who they are. And that's why i have. This somber tone is at the. Mccloskey's is the lawyer couple from saint louis That pulled the straps out on the peaceful. Protesters were marching through their gated community. If you remember a very famously the probably the most famous photo is the one with the woman with her hand on her hip with the lianne gun with a handgun. Little short and here is my handle. Here is my nine So these this couple is now suing the photographer. Who took that specific photo. Because i think we all whenever we think of the mccloskey's it's just like mustard. Yeah like them just like. Oh god honey let me get my ar and you get your little gun and we'll fight against progress. So they are now. Apparently they're lawyers and they have been apparently like very litigious they're saying even before all this shit went down in the summer like they're just this is how they get down. They like to sue or threaten people with lawsuits and they're suing this. Upi photographer for this photo because that photo has quote contributed to their significant national recognition and infamy okay in addition to suing the photographer and the news service. They're also suing that company. Red bubble you can just get shipped printed on a coffee mug or like a fucking phone case or whatever you know all those. There's plenty of businesses like that. They're suing red buffalo to because they're saying their image has proliferated across the world and they say that with red bubble and green blat the photographer they are profiting from t shirts masks and other items and licensing use of photographs bearing their likeness without obtaining their consent and they said often their image on merchandise sold by red bubble is accompanied with quote mocking and pejorative taglines or captions causing them quote humiliation mental anguish and severe emotional distress also they also point out that these people themselves use that photo on a personal greeting card they made and sent out to fucking people ha- stunned on them you see us and now they're like oh we're su- that's just that so now they're saying they've humiliated us and now we need to sue i guess they know very clearly that i think as many people realize that the white supremacist mario star that everyone was like glowing with the last four years being dash it's wearing off now and they're like oh i can't i can't blow through walls like i used to anymore like i'm straight up like they're going to remember me as this racist trash couple who should not be practicing law yeah man if the if they don't like having cameras pointed at them wait till they find out what's What guns are like. Yeah i've heard people really don't like having guns pointed at them. Sure an odd of course for for them all their notoriety and infamy. I mean it's not like they turned down. The opportunity to speak at the republican national convention. Seemed real. we'll see where this goes all that all that recognition. What do you think that's like like obviously they feel some type of way about it because they know like aside from the little group of other. You know ski racists. They hang out with whom i pat him on the back. There's those moments where people like. I don't know if you saw we were in another post again from that. One mean company. And it's really it really makes us look bad. Honey i don't know. I think we should sue like it's getting to them. If people are if in their own family people keep talking about them but well. I mean they're so with that those outfits to like i don't know that recognize either of them in a panerabread so i wonder if they're suing for being made to throw out those outfits like they can't wear public anyway. I mean the mustard stains on his pink polo shirt may have already been a loss anyway right and then her striped i remember. She had a black and white striped shirt yet. A pink polo and they both were stained with mustard We've all been there. I mean she looked like one of the henchmen from the old batman tv show. Yeah like she looks like she was already a cartoon villain burglar irving all very cartoonish and twenty twenty. Th it's weird how we've had those moments and then other ones like where i actually felt good to like. Suddenly it's weird. It's it's starting to become like more. Surreal as the calendar. Your clocks down. Yeah the fact that that was in june like you told me that was in march or you could have told me it was last week in two thousand seventeen yes remember. Trump was inaugurated in the. Mccloskey's pointed people yup right after. fdr almost got shot. Isn't that amazing flag fight with hoover obviously didn't handle the economy so well it's not like inside out. Pockets were known as hoover flags back. Then i mean that's just good branding. Fdr guy knew what he was to suppress the vote. The guy who came up with hoover villes and hoover flags. That's that's who've cost me the election Jam it's been a pleasure having you on the show. Where can people find you and follow you. Thanks for having me guys You can find me on twitter at j. m. mcnabb again I also a co host. Movie podcast rewatch ability. You can find that anywhere anywhere. You get podcasts. Year and Is there tweet or some of the work of social media. you've been enjoying. oh i did I don't know if you guys watched. Gravity falls but the guy who created it does a lot of the voices. Alex hirsch has been calling into the trump voter fraud hotline as gravity falls characters which has been pretty enjoyable so if you go to him he's at underscore. Alex hirsch on twitter. People find you can follow you. And what's tweet you've been enjoying Man i've been on twitter and instagram As miles of gray. That's where you can find me there. I haven't been on. I know i. I did see this one tweet. I will say someone re tweeted. Just because the the levels of denial or really something else someone is comparing the vote. Count in the state of washington saying like okay so this is weird over three point. Eight million votes were cast in washington yet. There's only six hundred eighty four thousand people that live in washington and in this person's screen caps. They don't even see that the population they're looking at is the population of washington district of columbia. Dz gary smalley part of the country where the capital is elda and the state of washington and still out here like match. They're like what the fuck is going on in our country. Clearly a failure of the education system of for starters. Though that's that's point one and then from there. Who knows i mean. White supremacists completely rod people's brains so it's a few different things Tweet i've been enjoying dan. White tweeted out. My dentist doesn't buy back old teeth. Thought it was like a game stop situation. Apparently they quote have literally no use for old teeth. quote couldn't use them if they wanted to end quote. Need some kind of explanation for where all these teeth came from. You can find me on twitter jack. Underscore o'brien you can find us on twitter at daly's zeitgeist. We're at daly's based on instagram. We have a facebook fan page and website daily dot com where we post our episodes and our footnote were linked to the information that we talked about in today's episode as well as the song we ride out on miles. What are we ran out on today. Just high energy you just going to get our our shoulders shaking in our fucked toes tapping This is a track from yousef days. and postle you is called front line and this has got like do yousef so nasty on drums And i've played other work of his before But this one just got like. It's almost like drum. Basie live drums Good energy so. That's what we need this start. I'm trying to reinvigorate my body. Because i am exhausted. Ooh i think i keep saying that. But i'm really as the days. Where on from tuesday like more and more. What what the fuck. If i become governor man. I feel more like completely worn out from the last week and i i feel like i need to give myself that the well. It's weird because we started this show as like a response to the administration. Yeah and then like we've gone to this point and now it's like fuck in. There's still so much more to do but also like we. I think we very much also. I think all people need to figure out how to give themselves just a moment of reflection and rest because like is not old and the only way we're going to keep going is if we properly take arrest properly acknowledge victories around. You feel good because you gotta keep the battery gotta be full To stay in it so we'll be hearing out ways to charge our best telling you murder. She wrote on my hop in. Because i loved i remember as a kid. I loved it because i was like. Oh man like my best friend. Chris got real into murder she wrote after we graduated college about literally. Nothing else to do. Honestly right dailies like the production of iheartradio for more podcast heart radio. Visit the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Wherever you listen your favorite shows that's going to do it for this morning. We'll be back this afternoon to tell you what's trending and we'll talk to y'all by i get just i'm on the sweet okay. Bill still doing doing a phone line. This jesus urban philosopher philanthropists in the host of the recession podcast a production of the black effect podcast network and iheart radio. I'll bring you wrong conversations about systemic racism mental health life on the streets and much more so join me on the recession podcast by jisi s r e s s s. I o n. Podcast on the iheartradio app apple podcasts. A web you prefer your podcasts. I'm shonda rhimes watch grey's anatomy or any of my tv shows that. I love to tell a good story. Well now the sean lent audio. We've partnered the iheartradio launch a slate of great podcasts. You listen to the first four right now. Katie's crib permanente. Go ask allie and you down and we have so much more coming your way. We can't wait for you to hear it all. Welcome to shawn. Thailand audio was all the new. Sean dillon. audio shows on apple podcasts.

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Coronavirus Whistleblower, Bagelrito? Bagelrito! 3.2.20

The Daily Zeitgeist

1:00:31 hr | 1 year ago

Coronavirus Whistleblower, Bagelrito? Bagelrito! 3.2.20

"Hey guys it's. Jack and we heard about this crazy party that Hulu through Beverly Hills with literally all the biggest reality. TV Star you were there. Yes, I. Did you get to go was not there okay. I saw I saw people from my favorite ninety day fiance. There I was very jealous. Name it. They were there, and here's the genius part to find out what happened at the party. You have to watch the commercials Oh. Yes, you know we will be. Tuning will definitely be tuning signing up for a free trial to get our favorite reality. TV shows at Hulu Dot. COM available now from Iheart a new series presented by t mobile for business, the restless ones join me Jonathan. Jonathan Strickland as I explore the coming technological revolution with the restless business leaders who stand right on the cutting edge. They know there is a better way to get things done, and they are ready, curious excited for the next technological innovation to unlock their vision of the future in each episode we'll learn more from the restless ones themselves and dive deep into how the five G. Revolution could enable their teams to thrive. The restless ones is now available on iheartradio. APP or wherever you listen to podcasts. Hello the Internet. Don't welcome to season one twenty three episode one of Daly's taste. A production of iheartradio is the bug as retake a deep dive into America's shared consciousness. And say officially off the top fuck coke brothers. Fuck Fox News. It's Monday march. Second Twenty twenty. My Name's Jack O'Brien. Aka Grit Sweat Specifications Aka John Dies at the trend. Aka Weathering Zeitz. Aka The great Jiaxi AK The catcher in Oh Bri. Aka, a tailed to Liddy Aka a portrait of the artist has the numb hand. that is courtesy of just TDK's. I would've looked. At the artist has the dumb hands. Man as a hung man, s also work. And I'm thrilled to be joined by my. Co Host Mr Miles. Oh miles grave. Thank you to everybody in the wonderful city of Toronto for making my AK of me. smokey we remodeled frayed. Through come to the offerings have smoked meats, blunt biscuits, everything for miles bread. Oh my goodness! The high will never I think I might just have. Peaked smuggle. My way back into. By talk, show what it does. Show what a what a time in Canada twenty four hours. Speaking of our timing Canada, we're thrilled to be joined in. Our Toronto Hotel. You know him as. A writer jamming. because. That's his name is Mr Jam mcnabb. Man Not too much. Thanks for having me. Thanks for being here great to see you in person. full disclosure I have never met you physically. No! Allies ago, so this is all Salisbury very work with you for like seven years i. feel like I know. Yeah, it's crazy. We've talked on the phone lots of time, but yeah to be here in person in a hotel room with the drapes, closed the whole other experience wind Jackson tissue boxes on his feet, but The vibe he's creating. Your nails are grown out suddenly. I'm peeing in jars. And Yeah did he did Howard? Hughes die mysteriously liked to I. Don't think so. They wasn't publicized lived along. He lived a mysteriously longtime like went into. This shat completely retreated, didn't he like? He was lying around like and wouldn't land I think regardless of how he died. People would be like that makes sense. Yeah, Great. Yeah Um Everything I. Know About Howard Hughes is informed by Mr Burns in that one episode. Yeah you didn't see the a beer. Now. Because it I did it didn't look anything like. Mr Burns to the region into wave of the future future women, the future wave of the future. He starts saying that although I did I've done events at that the hangar where he was building Hercules yeah. Now just a relic la where they just throw parties because it's like. Hanger like did they invent it for the? Did they build up for the movie or no? No, no, this was the actual where the actual hangars where. People are like it's the hanger from the aviator. Exactly. Where's the restroom? Well? Here's here's several jars. Yeah well jam the it's it's great to have you here. We're going to get to know you a little bit better in a moment first. We're going to tell our listeners a couple of things we're talking about A. WE'RE GONNA talk about from the end of last week. We didn't get a chance to discuss the fact that Tom Steinmeyer. Nosy can't stand it Dick Bandit. Done landed all over your planet. We're in talk about trump's corona virus. You know using the word hoax in relation to the fact that people are being critical of his handling. We're GONNA talk about a new whistleblower. About How Bernie's, so where full disclosure we don't know the outcome of the South Carolina primary as of this recording because. We're in Canada and news. Travel slowly. across the border. So. We don't know what happened yet. And South Carolina Primary but I I did want to talk about the fact that Bernie's win in Nevada caused Biden to surge. FIVETHIRTYEIGHT had an interesting article about that, so we'll talk about that, and then we're GonNa talk about something I know we'll get to the Bagel read. Oh, so the Bagel Burrito. I want to talk to. Or Clever. Clever name, and then I wanNA. Talk to you about the invisible man saw I did which I didn't even know as possible to see the invisible man, but dad joke. Hey I'm on fire. But Jam, I seriously put me out. Jam I we like to ask our guest. What something from your search history? That's revealing about who you are okay, well I I want to. Talk about something kind of Canadian with you guys. I had something in the back of my mind that I remember someone saying. That I never investigated so I searched the other day. was Jack. The ripper Canadian Oh 'cause I thought someone told me that at a party or something It was and I looked it up, and there is like a guy that some people think could have been jack the ripper who was born in Scotland, but he was raised in Canada. And he was educated. Here became a doctor, and he was eventually arrested and executed in England for poisoning women. But the reason, the main reason why they think he was Jack The ripper is because as they were hanging him in public. Just before you know, the trap door opened and he hung, he said I am Jack and then, and then he hung to death Oh was strangled, so we never got to finish it, but people based on that account that said that's what he said. I wonder if he was going to confess to the Jack The ripper killings. Now. There's four who's going to say. I am Jax Dole. Life in quote Fight Club. He's big fight. Club Fan yeah. We. His name wasn't Jack I. Know His name was Thomas Cream. which sounds made up history renew Tucker hungry like that and he. The only of Hiccup in the story is. He was jacking off as he said I am Jack King off and so people well. You say that is. One of the theories as to what he might have been saying, one of his biographers said that he thinks he may have in that moment of strangulation lost control of his. Body functions and might have actually been saying I'm Jackie relating? Hey Wow which is like. He's jail. One really wins. This whatever it is. But he he was in jail during some of the killings the in London so that we don't really think he was waiting. Pride to say Jack The ripper was Canadian. I wonder yeah, like I wonder if we would lose our politeness credit. Yeah, it was like Jack The ripper. If everyone had that in their sub-conscious like yeah, we got that in yeah, I feel like it would definitely make Canada like a little bit I'm a little. Little Edgy. Yeah, but it's kind of like balanced out by like. Martin Short. Also national treasure. What is something you think is overrated. overrated I'm GONNA say texting. texting okay, because it just occurred to me the other day when I was a kid, the big thing was like video phones like I. Remember Seeing videophones like Radio Shack for a thousand dollars or In movies as always videophones edges. We're always constantly sending each other like electronic telegraphs basically. Just, because we're too anxious to actually see each other face to face or talk to each other. If you just randomly facetime to friend would call the police. Yeah, I would. I would just be like what is wrong with them. Yeah, yeah, it's not a family member like I only expect face times like I know when to expect to face time, not even like outside of a facetime media certain time like my birthday. If I get it from on or some. Fine like I. Get that out of the blue from. A friend from high school and Michael The fuck. Yeah, man, how are you trying to invade my life at the moment I have, but faced time to people before. That's way more embarrassed, live, but dialing people. That yeah, you just sit on your phone literally. We're just setting it off. Yeah I, think it was in my pocket, and then I think one time my one year old had my phone and like facetime. Somebody and yeah, it was like Oh sorry. That's LICO really awkward. Trying to communicate? But yeah. I definitely prefer facetime facetime my family all the time from from the road in Oh. Yeah, turn the page man. We're just couple road dogs. I know magic. Never know these kids grow so damn quick man. You're basically living the lives of like old. Like old Vaudevillians yeah, no, you're. Traveling from town to town, yeah, exactly arns is very physical a lot of physical comedy lot of falls, yeah. You wear on stage. Yeah, a lot of tumbling and it comes out with the old hook. When you do a joke, I mean it's all it's all very. It's all. Yeah, you guys missed it. You missed out. You really missed out. What is something you think is underrated. Underrated, the first thing came to mind for me was You guys remember the show. American vandal. Yeah the Netflix's Oh. Yeah, yeah, it's crazy to say is underrated, because like won a peabody award. Really Yeah. He Body Award for media of, but it's a legitimately great show that you never hear about. And it was elected. It was only canceled by net flicks. because Netflix's didn't own it outright. It was like another studio produced it right right right and they started making their. Their content that they own one hundred percent, so they could use it for all time forever, so I don't know it's just kind of a bummer. It was a really good show. Was Season Two great? I didn't get I saw the first episode, and I was like all right, I really liked the first season. Rather than the seconds. What happened in season two was to is even better. Yeah, it's. Called the Brown out where basically someone spikes the the schools juice supply with laxatives same school. No different school, the school basically hires the kids to same kids. Yeah, who saw the first ministry and also in the world of the show like the first season was a hit documentary series on net flicks. They have all this money and clout now so they reenact things with computer graphics. Global Yeah So. Even better than what I think, it is how? Great Yeah a loved one. One of our underrated actually gives us something to go. Do this is great. Yeah, and if you haven't seen American vandal and you like true crime and comedy, you should watch. It threads the needle perfect. For something so dumb. The first season is like who drew all these dicks on your. Was it and just the process of elimination of treating that so seriously, and some of the characters are so real like yes. Just completely accurate balls on literally. Finally, what is the math? What something people think is true? You not fall sir. I, wanted to throw out another kind of Canadian centric thing. What would you guys guesses? Canada's National Sport. Hockey right, you'd think that curling no well. It's kind of hockey, but historically it was always Lacrosse Vo, cross the. Lacrosse was the. National game until the sixties when some guy in parliament decided that it should be hockey, so we introduced a bill to legally make hockey the national sport. And then the apparently there was like a Lacrosse lobby that got pissed off about this, so they got another member of parliament introduced a bill to make Lacrosse, the legal national sport, and apparently this is the thing that happened. There was a big deal and they kind of negated each other and nothing happened until the nineties when. Law that Lacrosse could be. The National Summer Game and hockey could be the national winter game. So? It's kind of Lacrosse kind of big. Hockey a bit of it in the end. Are there like General Political Association like in America? You know football tends to have like sort of a right leaning political baseball more than football baseball also has like sort of a right-leaning thing. And then the NBA's more center left technocrat liberal I. Feel A. And then I. Don't know with leftist. Chess Yeah so is lacrosse still popular, though like is know. Who has been here for decades? There are like leagues I think, but not on the same scale off. No, no, it's a weird cut. Technicality crosses weird in America to. It's kind of like randomly distributed like a huge in new. England I feel like big in New England, but it's really big and like the DC Maryland. Yeah, right more area like it's huge right in that region. Right right, and then there's like some places. Places Out West where it's really big, but it just seems kind of like. Yeah, it's been evangelized to some places I play. Because I I knew a lot of kids when I played competitive hockey, though immediately lived in the east coast, we'll win. It's not cold. We're all playing lacrosse because it's sort of similar, not skill sets, but just actively similar things but I tried playing once and I was really bad with the. Sick ever the fuck you call that. Yeah! and I was like math. Fuck! This I'll go back to hockey. Yeah, you're sticking game wasn't. Just, you know you should see me out there and is Nimble Nimble sticker. Shots from the Blueline Pal. On point. Irish I'll. Go out for Ripley and her it yeah. That was a great time, yeah, Oh shut up to the couple from Sudbury to everybody. Go! Monitoring all rat buildings. Sorry guys. We're still high of the show last night. What. What a crowd! Three hundred thirty people yeah, it was a lot of people they were. They were rowdy. Rowdy. Yeah, they were amazing. Thanks just a rowdy bunch all over the world. Yeah, internationally known and locally respected. This is like a rock concert. There honestly I mean miles, and I've seen a million faces and we have Rachmaninov. Sorry. That was I just gave myself. DEUCE chills. All right, let's let let's take a quick break and we'll be right back. Hey. It's Me Jack Yes, and I wanNA tell our listeners, and you can then support for the daily Zeitgeist. Today's brought to you by manscaping. WHO's the best in men's below the belt grooming MANSCAPING offers precision engineered tools for your family jewels, so glad manscaping came into my life as someone who cuts their own hair now with electric clippers. Yeah, sometimes you will do your other maintenance, because I'm already shaving all my hair off right while and I take that tomorrow I'm pissed maybe because getting to loose and long. Oh, I don't I man scape with electric clippers with no guard Oh. Spaghetti O's because. Let's just say I've had a few close calls. 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Guess what your balls will thank you. Yeah, they will hey. Miles some cool ideas. Man Always noticed that about You've been reading my manifesto. Yeah, the spoke coffins bespoke coffins I tone. You know and you people like this stuff. They WANNA made out of old Wrigley. Gum Packages. ooh, whatever yeah look. It's all based on what your vibe is so lit. Thank you anyways I. Have a way for you to showcase your work. Okay for you to blog or publish your content. Sell products and services of all kinds doesn't need to be bespoke coffins I don't think yet doesn't okay and also. Featuring new email campaigns which will keep the design of your content consistent across all platforms including email, it is of course, our good friends at squarespace off course I know them. Yes, squarespace is the best place to go to create a website that looks great that functions great one. It's not just websites. Yeah, do online stores you can do marketing tools, and they give you like analytics, so you can be smarter about how you you know. Run Your online presence and run your business exactly so guys go to squarespace dot com slash TD's e for a free trial and winger radio launch us the offer code td to save ten percent off your first purchase of a website or domain. And we're back and There's just kind of a a little snapshot and time that we got at the end of last week. That was. The closest I've ever seen to reality matching up with the part at the Rosemary's baby where she's like drugged and keeps like looking up, and like seeing these snapshots from like a party of Satanists do now that part Yeah, that's what this evoked in my mind. Because it was a juvenile concert, they were performing back. That ass up and the camera just kept panning from juvenile over at Tom Star I think Tom Stars wife and one of his staffers or his daughter. I don't know yeah, dancing onstage like. Badly but with complete abandoned, and it just seemed like a complete fucking fever dream nightmare. Yeah, I mean the apparently the like there was nice food there. There was like Kuri. Yeah and like hold pork paninis. Potato Bar Ray. It was this opulent. I'm not against it I. I root for the eight some Rosemary's baby. This, but they just want a baby. Seeing. I don't even know what fucking thing and just Tom. Stare awkwardly being like I'm hip hop in everybody, yeah. Dancing Lak- politician like he kept like pointing to the crowd leg. Additions always do, but that was like part of his dance routine. It would be funny if it's like wife's just starting to bust it open on stage Oh. Man, do like what. Whoever that woman was on stage. In juvenile okay I didn't realize. He's starting to secure the bag man. Yeah, yeah, of course, just just secure the best. Professional right even look like he was out there. You know just having a party for this billion-euro selection. Thing about the speedboat. That party would get him right. He's like. Keep your eye on the prize. It was hard to watch. It felt like if someone had granted my self conscious sentence rate would be Tom Steiner dancing it because. It was just like every. Like that's why I don't dance. Yes, that's what plays in my head when I picture myself. Dan Right. Yeah, you can't dance like nobody's watching you like that that he felt like he was dancing like everybody was watching, and he had was fully aware of that. which is how I always feel. I think you know. He was like Okay Joe Biden Got Jim Clyburn to come out for him and endorse and. Get, juvenile read well this. This was a big race for STA right. He had kind of put all zags in the Nevada and South Carolina baskets. So Uh. We'll see once. The News Reaches Canada. How how that race went for him to be a couple years now? I'm just curious if he realizes that juvenile is not from. South Carolina. He's a your boy from New Orleans so. But Hey, you know. So Corona virus stuff I feel like You know it's probably not most fun story to hear US tracking because it's just scary impressive. Thing nothing we can do about it and also we probably have it because we've been traveling nonstop. I keep seeing. These stories of people are like Yeah de people cutting back on domestic travel and international travel. Steph sending people anywhere anymore fleet. Half our time over the past week on Planes A. I? Don't know I feel okay though we've been. We've just been destroying ourselves with Vic- too greasy food, which helps and washing washing my hands, Sam, rare the empire and prayer. Yeah, we hold our hands. We hold hands together. Just miles by the way that's our palms. But anyways trump is keeping things interesting at a South Carolina rally. He'll let everyone know what's actually going on with the krona virus. That's just Eliah by the Democrats to smear him kind of. Was this fucking hoax y'all good news, then, yes, Great Ackley Job God. That'd be great I mean again, listen to his words. Tell me if this doesn't get you to completely realize Oh. Yeah, this is probably. Now the Democrats are politicizing the corona virus, you know. Hurrah. funnier politicizing politicized. We did. What are the great jobs you say House President Trump doing. They have no clue they don't have any clue. They can't even count the votes in Iowa. You're burnt. Burnt Democrat okay so the World Health Organization, experts. The world, not just everyone is like this is a problem. They're politicizing it. Yeah, okay. They're doing I like it goes. We did one of the great jobs. Yeah, the great jobs I wonder maybe that'll be his mission accomplished banner. We have one of the. Job We did great jobs. There's that yeah. Yeah with with complete on. This is just it's that news is hitting as you know, we're starting to see the cases of unknown origins, popping up in multiple states which like when you read into it that means that these are people who are getting it who haven't traveled and they don't like. They don't know who they got it from like. There's nobody they were in. With that they know of who had traveled, so it's just like yeah. That's like community like it's just out there now. Yeah, like people are just getting it. And it's just a hoax y'all and I do like that it seems like trump has fully become the mayor from jaws at this point Oh my God. It was just like there's no problem. The economy's doing gray. Keep doing what you're doing, right? and. There's a apparently a new whistleblower. Because we've got another whistleblower. Have Health and Human Services and this one is basically after seeing how HHS officials were like sense to Wuhan to. get Americans. Basically out of the city and these people from h s were not given protective gear, and not subsequently tested for the virus They said Yeah Goethe's sick town. Right the sick people and bring them on back, but I don't know. Just bring them back. We don't know what's going on. It's probably be. Here's some hand sanitizer. In Napa Oh you don't need. No, but so this person who works in the administration for children and families. Specifically at subdivision apparently like the officials from the department retaliated against her by reassigning her, and she claims that she was told that if she didn't accept her new position by like March fifth or something that she would just be fired. Yeah, I mean it's an active cover up already. Yeah, like already like not even that far into the crisis, and it's an active cover up, and it's happening kind of on every level like there was a health official who was booked on every weekend like morning show, and pence made him cancel it. All ranker's yeah, it's they're just completely an information lockdown. This is all about controlling the image that they don't even have control of that. Everything's out there. People are like just reading the complaints. The allegations are that the Americans who were coming back from Wuhan were like at Travis. Air Force Base in Fairfield. California March Air Reserve Basin Riverside that those people were greeted by HHS officials, and who like they may have been left without protection against corona virus transmission, as they receive these people, and then those people. The employees of HHS took commercial flights around the country and we're just staying in hotels. It's like there's nothing at all that they did right and they were saying that even then even when they talk about how they handled not just the administration, but in general, the cruise ship that was docked if they had actually evacuated people from the ship a lot sooner that there would have been a lot less cases of people get like getting the illness. So, it's all very comforting. I mean. We've been just bathing in the shit stream of news for the past three years, and there have been like a couple stories. Where have involuntarily like said out loud. Oh my God, and that happened twice this morning. When I got to the part where it was like, and they just send him around on commercial flights, and then the hoax thing it's like. You read about how bad things are like all these signs that it's about to hit like an inflection point, and then trump is describing it as a hoax like it's literally just like things out of movies about a botch like how we just have the worst possible you know this. This is the thing that we were worried about where. We being like yeah, but what if trump like was president during something that was actually added that wired like not sort of his contempt for experts right like this? Is that moment? Yeah, absolute contempt for the people who like are trying to get this thing under control letting in. People who believe in like hardcore religion in pseudoscience. Yeah, to run point and his contempt for people who are poor is gonNA come in his contempt for people who are Brown is GonNa come in his his racism like it's all gonna come in now, because like all of the different you know biopsies like that affect how he interacts with reality are going to are going to come out and be a part of how this. Event unfolds. Also it affects you know how he? How he plays the game because he uses fear so much ray, if people are afraid of corona virus, he's not going to be able to like. Stoke up fear for a Migrant Caravan, or he's not able to control the the mass hysteria in the way that he's used to well. He's GonNa he's GonNa. Use this to continue to make people afraid of migrant caravans I think like I think this will. Eventually I mean usually like illnesses? I mean it's already causing racism like My wife and mother-in-law were both like. You. Know telling me they feel self conscious just like sneezing and public. Because you know out people. Yeah, they're Korean and people just generally are. Already like part of how people perceive? This event. And it's going to. It's going to keep happening and it's GonNa get worse well. The other thing is like on Fox News Day have been taking the orders from the president and downplaying and mitigating like bad. This could be to their viewers skew older. And the older people as we've seen hardly probably most vulnerable to the effects of the virus and they're like. Hey, I don't worry about it. Don't worry about it like Whoa. How did they think that's GONNA end up to like if you know hopefully there will that we can get to a point where it doesn't get so terrible and. People are sort of in total mass hysteria, and the the transmission of the virus has gone out of. Control, but. You know they're actively telling people things like that is dangerous for them. You know like they should be like. Yeah, you know what? Maybe protect yourself a little bit rather than being like you know how many coronavirus deaths in the US zero. Trump's got it under control baby. Lick all the doorknobs, right. You're good, yeah! I mean I stopped looking doorknobs as I heard this news off. WHAT SELF-CONTROL! Your Hero. because. I can't stop personally, but I mean this is me. All Right? Let's talk briefly. Even though the South Carolina Primary News hasn't reached us up here, I. Do want to talk about something that happened in the polls. That fivethirtyeight wrote about it then the last week. That is somewhat. Unprecedented or at least like they didn't have a precedent for it, which is that so Bernie had a decisive victory. In Nevada, the first state that was actually had a diverse demographic people. You know the media I was like well. This is going to be like a thing now. This is, he's the front runner. He's a clear front runner, but the media also was freaking out and. And so as the DNC and it actually caused Biden, the surgeon sanders polls to plummet his win like hurt his polls, which is like never been a thing that happens, so it's like in which Poe what polls exactly did it affect like five just does a blended average of all the polls and South Carolina Sanders was surging Biden, was dropping sanders, one Nevada and so bad Nevada. And Sorry. But so and then Biden started. Surging and sanders started dropping like a stone now it's. Sanders has a like one and thirty chance of winning in south. And Biden has a ninety seven percent chance. and. You know a lot of people were like well. Biden had a he over performed by having a solid debate. and they were like any also got that endorsement but they were saying that actually. When you look at when the surge happened, it was when Sanders one in Nevada. So, it was the media reaction. It was the DNC reaction. There was just like the public's reaction to Sanders winning was. That's. I mean I. Think Made Sense. Yeah, are still you know of the belief or whatever buy into whatever perceived threat presidency could be yeah, and that shows when you have things like that of how impressionable people are the other thing interesting to is? There is a a a few researchers actually were studying the effects of like five, Thirty, eight on twenty, the two thousand sixteen election. Yeah, and how it may have actually depressed voter turnout because. It's GonNa. Be A fucking Lizzo out. Yeah, don't worry about it and a lot of people are like Oh that created a lot of overconfidence in voters. I think yeah. I would say the New York Times more than five thirty eight. I there, it's altogether baby all together. I think it's all I mean 'cause. The fact is the just this sort of reliance on polling data to helps you know yeah route I get it. It's it it helps. Give people a snapshot of what's happening in time, but I think again I. Think a lot of less than most people earned any out of there was like. Yes, we understand what the polls are saying. But it can, it can work in every direction. Yeah, I think definitely. The media coverage of polling in two thousand sixteen I just think fivethirtyeight does like a pretty scientific blended average of the polls, whereas like the New York Times was just like it's ninety nine percent chance Hillary wins. fivethirtyeight was one of the only places those like. No. It's actually pretty close. Then you remember that on election day watching that those numbers are going. Yeah Yeah. It was wild. Yeah, I liked that was yet like traumatic anyways, so the thing that is most likely the most likely thing in their blended average of overall outcomes now up at fifty percent chance of happening is that nobody gets the majority, and then it's a roker convention convention in which case that like. I think sanders only chance now is getting a majority outright because. I mean the there are Michael. Bloomberg is working on super delegates. Are People working on super delegates? If there has to be a second vote, yeah, and it's. It's anybody's guess, but the NFC would do I'm telling you right now. It ain't gonNA. Be Elizabeth Warren either no fucking people they're talking about is Michael Bloomberg or like Michelle. Obama like they're in fantasy. Yeah, yeah, like they don't want. They can't have anybody who's going to do anything remotely disruptive to the billionaire elite class. Yeah, absolutely not if it goes to a broker convention like I think Biden is the best we could hope for like it's honestly like. Yeah or they are. These people really think Bloomberg. I have no fucking. Clue could up. Yeah, it's GonNa. Be I mean we'll begin to see as as time goes on like what what they're trying. What kind of weather balloons are sending up? But my goodness like? Didn't they mention? Comma harassed to yeah. There were a few people who said that really yeah there. There are people who like all. They're all kinds of names going out there, but I think what it came down to is that they would? They're gonNA figure something else out. If it comes down to it and one of the people that was in that New York Times article, who was one of the super delegates this Guy William Owen. He is like. Dude he is one of the people who contributes to like Republicans. He's like a former health. healthcare lobbyists who like back Mitch McConnell. This guy like one of like being like. Yeah, we gotTA. We gotTA. Stop Sanders of. An ex healthcare just. He's not GonNa Pick Elizabeth Warren either he's GonNa pick fucking. Whoever probably homework I mean this? It seems like the most likely outcome is. Like the death of any political will on on behalf of anybody under the age of forty. Yeah, everyone's. There's GonNa be so. This is just not everyone, but ever like the people who are you know who became interested motivated about politics over the past. Five years are just going to be totally checked out, or it'll be like a a revolution. I mean here's the deal if they do that, shit it straight up. Class Warfare Point. It's like you have the fucking people who deciding whoever they want, and for them to just intervene like that to put the interest of people like Working People's. You know of Rights Nia and things like that. It's clearly showing. Hey, we have the fucking power at the end of the day. Yeah, you. Can you know you can vote? Rally and Shit but at the end of the day like we set this system up so by. We're GONNA WE'RE GONNA fucking. Keep moving the same way. It's been moving, yeah. Read The New York Times article at the end of last week. Just covered the you know the delegates planning to who were like. We've gotTa Stop Sanders as just like. Yeah, of course, that's what they're doing and just par for the course as opposed to yeah, this is class warfare. You will start a class war like you will end your party's viability forever probably, but instead it was just like yeah, and so there we found. Intense opposition. It's like yeah, okay, that's not from within our bubble, right? It's just yeah. It's such a bubble that they don't. They don't have any concept of how toxic bad that would be. Yeah, and I think whoever like no matter who you support you need to look at this situation and understand what these people at at at that level are thinking and fight and what they want to keep away from you what they want to take away from. Yeah, so yeah, we're fucked. We'll see. We'll see chins up. SHANNA PAL, or we're going to on that note on that hopeful note, we're GonNa? Take a quick break and we'll be right back to talk about the big or Rideau. Here's the thing. Saving money with Geico is almost better than playing pickup basketball. because. There's always that guy who joins your game. He never passes the rock. He constantly bricks threes, and who completely hack you, and then put his hands up and say no foul foul with GEICO. It's easy to switch and save on car insurance, no need to fake an ankle sprain because you're absolutely exhausted so switch and save with Gyco. It's almost better than sports. Hi Everyone. It's Katie couric. I've got a ton of questions about this crazy time. We're living in and I. Know You probably due to on the new season of my podcast next question with me Katie. COURIC I sit down with people at the center of the issue shaping the world around us. The impact meet has on our health and on the environment why the maternal mortality rate in the United States is so high and how the twenty twenty presidential candidates plan to improve the lives of every day, Americans. I hope you'll join me for these fascinating conversations on the second season of next question. Subscribe and listen every Thursday on the iheartradio, APP Apple, podcasts or wherever you get your favorite shows. And we're back and. Who? Let's get to the real news. Yeah, we're really fucked now. Grossest looking things. I think I've ever okay. Be Gross or I think I'll I'll try anything once. Okay 'cause I. You know I'm the gross food bandit and the Bagel Rito is from Einstein Grows Bagel company. Up here. I've never heard of that. Okay, so that's a that's A. That's an American company, but Essentially it's exactly what you think. It's a Burrito. It's a Bagel. It's everything you need the way they describe. The BAGEL Rito is the latest breakfast innovation from Einstein Bros. Bagels, substantial size and high in flavor. It's loaded with two cage. Free eggs, thick cut, bake and Turkey sausage, three cheeses, hashbrowns, salsa, and Green Sheila's to in a flour Tortilla. It looks like the filling of this. Burrito just looks like what you would like. Push out of an artery. Somebody has died of. It looks like artery. Photograph looks like a Salvador Dali painting. Surreal. And it's all all hand wrapped in Chicago, Bagel dough and baked fresh. It's substantial size. High Flavor and portability has earned it slogan, big, bold and easy to hold. Yeah, now the reviews have actually been good really. Yes, they're saying like because like it actually has a lot more ingredients than normal fast food things so like and there's like actual flavors in it. The only thing, I'm a little confused about is why have a flour Tortilla within the BAGEL already? A bagel itself. Wait. There's a flour tortillas in the bills like you have a mini breakfast burrito inside then a Bagel outside, so you have to starts layers I feel like that's a little redundant too much, but. Not Now. You're telling me that it's getting positive reviews. And now I kind of want to try it. Yeah, because. Viewing just like one of the writers at takeout who. Typically. I. Talked about. I think it was written by Marnie. Sure and it. You Know Marnie Scher Einstein weight as. Well, yeah like everyone a lot of people. There were pretty impressed as she went to like a precedent. Right up at the press event most you were like. Oh, you! We're and it's actually like the Bagel rigid enough that it wasn't like falling apart, so it is big. Old Yeah at the same time at a press event they're making sure they fucking nail that thing and the issue with fast food is. You're having to spread that out of. A nation mean they don't have a precedent for the diarrhea you. Might we. We have to have the Big Rita. Though yeah I mean that that needs to be something that is always to I think the boys do a good job of this of like taking into account when they're reviewing fast food restaurants like and then I felt like sick for four hours, which is actually not that bad for fast food like I don't ever really feel bad from eating fast food. That's incredible I. think that's wild, never your machine. Yeah! I'm just completely rotten on the inside and like nothing's working anymore and. Just the wheels are based. Have come off now. You're in freefall, but alive I feel great. I haven't pooped in thirty days. That's right and then when it comes. An once a month lock lock all the furniture. You guys know. I have to one one day a month I. don't come into work. One of my favorite snl sketches is the one about the birth control pill that gives you your period like you only have your period once a year, but then like when you do, it's like they're like running around with axes Eli. which was how how long does it was when it was one of the first ones after Tina fey left when she came back and hosted Oh. Okay, and it was just very like screw. Her voice was amazing. All, right, let's talk about the invisible man. Jammed, yeah, yeah, so when I first heard. They're remaking invisible man I have flashbacks to the going to see the Chevy Chase one when I was a kid. And being underwhelmed. But this this looks terrifying. What is the story I just know? It's H. G. Wells, but I don't know I've never even seen. The Chevy Chase is dude who's literally invisible. And then around miserable, but it becomes very sad kind of because nobody him, yeah. Yeah, this one is on straight up horror. The Chevy Chase one is more like comedy. That than is like kind of Angsty is the original story by H. G. Wells like malleable enough, basically that depending on wherever the script writer wants to take it, you can still on the original text and be. I think they literally just take the idea of a guy who can turn even visible. Okay and I think the the original story was supposed to be about kind of like the perils of scientific advancements. Scientists, who just kind of gets driven insane by I think that was like ninety percent of what she was about scientists who go crazy but this one is from the perspective of like the victim like you don't see anything through the perspective of the the invisible man. Okay. And it still slow by Chevy Chase though which I thought was shot. The terrifying invincibility of Chevy Chase. Such a such A. Imposing physical presence. The so this yet. It really seems like get Scott. It's basically more in line in the tradition of movies like. Leaving with the enemy where it's like a story of a woman who's in an abusive relationship who escapes, and then is tormented by the person she escapes that person is invisibles is able to make himself invisible, and also like faked own death right, yeah, which is also really clever, because they kind of the US, the sci-fi concept to kind of make how trauma feels very palpable, and in terms of the story, because like the whole first of the movie is basically just you know. She escapes this abusive husband. And this guy and it's just her and empty rooms, and this disquieting feeling of not being alone or not being able to go on with their life, because she's kind of haunted by the trauma was really effective, I thought even just the beginning of the movie before anything sci-fi happens, it's it's a horror scene that's just about her. Leaving this guy and about hair, trying to get out of the house while he's sleeping and it's probably like the most intense scariest part of the movie and. The. Visible. Yeah, see I thought it was pretty good. I mean that's that is probably the most common like real world experience of horror that people have is that's that's when you're at your at the most dangerous. Is when you are trying to leave. That's when you're at the most danger of being killed is when you're trying to leave an abusive significant other that. Just happens so much it's. Like underrepresented because. We don't make women the protagonists of our stories and even like the news I feel like under underrepresented represented. But. Yeah, so it's it's kind of an interesting. Turn. Sort of it feels sort of of a piece with the more like Jordan Peele. Like social socially conscious or the. Same Studio. It's Blunt House. Doing it so like the they've been trying to corner the market unlike the socially conscious low budget thriller rate because Rosemary's baby again. They. Did that Brett? Bringing People's attention to societal issues, will also just horrifying right any sort of sensationalizing should I mean that's all. Yeah. That's always been like the best horror has been yes subtle because I think it's universal and I think even then it's sort of demystify, or it's less abstract like the idea of someone's trauma like if if you have it in the form of an invisible man, it can be someone by themselves, and you don't know if they're there, but just this feeling right that sort of helps I don't know if if it's completely abstract. He'd like Oh yeah. Yeah, and then there's like a whole gas lighting thing to be like attention throughout his like you know she saying there's an invisible person who's. Haunting her and people are like you're. More on that later lady, exactly it does happen to that. Yeah, that idea that women need to be believed, and has also it's. Funny because she keeps trying to tell people that he turn himself invisible, and they're like I'm not even going to bother to look in his basement. Full of like mad. Scientist Equipments Mysterious Chambers I'm not you know? None of this is adding up. I will say I think it's a little weird that like it was just written and directed by. This dude is like the guy who wrote cy think 'cause he got kind of some pats on the back for a Elizabeth Masa, an interview that's the he sort of collaborated with her, and and wanted the female perspective on the story yeah. Yeah I I. Just don't understand why if I was sitting down to write a script about this, why wouldn't ask co-writer with? Yeah? One of the many many super talented women who aren't being given jobs by Hollywood exactly I just don't understand that, and like I said it's a good move. It does a lot well, but maybe it could have been a great move A. And had. More perspective than this one does. I don't know but yeah, pretty good better than the the the invisible man. We might have gotten if they kept going with the Like the Tom Cruise Verse Brett the Tom Cruise Monster this. This, what this is a universal film, right so universal owns the rights to all these classic monsters, and they were going to try to turn it into their own like Marvel universe where Wolfman and the mummy as played by Tom, cruise, and the invisible man as played by Johnny Depp that cast him. Russell Crowe as Dr Jekyll Mr Hyde. Like, they were gonNA create like this weird superhero movie slash, Monster, movie, Hybrid, and Yeah who could forget that Tom Cruise Mummy Oh. I remember. That, yeah That, that movie tanked and they were just like okay, and then also yeah, Johnny Depp as the invisible man might have been a little bit problematic since he's an abuser. I wonder like was the story the same? Be Really Weird Yeah. I'm assuming not. Jam It's been such a pleasure having you man. Oh, thank you for having. Yeah. Yeah, thank you for having us. Yeah, thank you for talking with us. Contributing to the show man you for inviting me on this journey and I it sounds silly when I say allowed, but I mean at one hundred percent. Guys so much, thanks, feeling is mutual love mutual. Maybe yes, yes, where can people find you follow you? Can Follow me on twitter I'm at and mcnabb. I'm usually on the REWATCH. Ability podcasts on the entertainment one podcast network If you're watching the new star Trek card I also do a recap show of that It's called tea earl. Grey hot take. Find that on on podcast places? Okay, because he's too Euro Gray, hot right? Yeah, that's we were going for. He was one of the few Picard `ISMs I know. That's how he. got. His shaken not stirred t exactly it's. Cool. I love it. Is, there tweet even joy. I did like this is an older one but From the debate the other day. tweets by Matt. oswalt, who who tweeted out debate winter Bloomberg audience supporters who are now sag eligible. Man? That was wonderful interest. So what a crowd synthetic! Sorry, authentic right! Word for when everything's fake and miles. Where can people find you follow you? Twitter instagram at miles of grey, also on my other podcasts at four twenty day, fiance with Sophia Alexandra. Some tweets that I like. The first one is from a pass guest. Amy Miller at a Miller she said, please stranger. Tell me what else I can put in my act. People love giving you that grew. Tips after show. This is what you should do. I think Yeah, and I think that, is it? Okay Oh wait. No, sorry, the other one was from. Sophia but I couldn't find it on her twitter. I just saw it this on her instagram. Sophie Alexander at Sophia's said. My psychiatrist is in my phone as brain wizard and my dentist is dentist to Tin and my dad is not around. Oh. Sabrina Med tweeted a disaster. About this as sap rocky for a Wall Street Journal magazine, thing is just so it's A. It's a example of a media disaster that I feel like is not. Being covered, but people need to look at this as Apparati photo shoot for the Wall Street Journal Magazine Why. He's feel like what is he doing? There's a of yeah, there's a feature. There's all these pictures of him. Like just being at home now, so joe? Yes, Super Dope, but like I. Don't know man what's going on with that guy. He's so cool sometimes. Boilers Park her add allergic to sex tweeted deleted twitter because I thought it was making me depressed turns out I. Just have depression. and. Julia shift. Let tweeted my midwestern love screaming. Thank you when leaving literally any establishment. hard with that. And then you lie the average guy at Jasim, my pants tweeted. Oh, you're not a coffee person. Congratulations on never achieving your potential. You can find me on twitter Jack Underscore O'Brien. You can find us on twitter at daily Zeitgeist. We're at dailies. I on instagram. We have facebook fan page website daily Zeitgeist Dot com where we post our episodes and our footnote where we link off to the information that we talked about in today's episode as well as the song. We right on mild. What Song. Will that be for this fine Monday. Let's do attract by Coyote. One of my favorite bands spelled H. I. Eight hundred us. Takes. Cody K. A.. Y. O. T. E. fantastic banned from strata from Australia. and this track is called the long I think they are just one of the greatest bands playing right now. They're masters of their instruments and always a pleasure to see live at a lung L. U. N. G. Yes Boca. Ning Fan of those we'll the dailies, I, the production of Iheartradio for more podcast for my heart radio, his the iheartradio, APP, apple, podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. That's GONNA. Do it for this Monday. We'll be back this afternoon to tell you what the trend rate now. We'll talk to them back. Old! Old heads. The. How. Cold. Ask. The head. down. Cold. Head, swift. Women's voices are having a moment and I heart radio has got its first podcast. thout how we talk called permission to speak with me. Samara, Bay I'm a speech coach who's worked with women running for Congress and entrepreneurs and movie stars on how to be heard in the moments that matter and this podcast is where it gets to bring the conversation to you. Listen to permission to speak on the iheartradio APP apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Votes, D like big boats. Do you like poor people in the rich people they serve on big boats. Are you always like look goes on below deck. 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Rushin Vaccine, Dr Pepper In Danger? 8.12.20

The Daily Zeitgeist

1:15:35 hr | 8 months ago

Rushin Vaccine, Dr Pepper In Danger? 8.12.20

"Hey, miles. K. A Ryan Reynolds type I always that I said. Look at you. Jack, you're definitely a Ronald Ryan's type you did. I always. Ask, for Ryan, Reynolds type, and I am a rhyme reynolds type in the sense that I wear pants absolutely and I like my pants to fit and nothing feels better than a pair of Bonobos. No-go says the best fitting men's where with a huge selection of fits, links and sizes and pants jeans, shirt shorts, blazers even golf attire or can drop by toward to find your fit for chat with a Stylus online. So checkup, Noboa's B. O. N. O. B. O. S. IN STORE PANOVA DOT COM sometimes food is more than just food. It's part of our community. So this year discover is giving five million dollars to support black owned restaurants to places like Rodney Scott, barbecue post office pies, and hundreds more learn how you can show your support at discover dot com. Hello the Internet, and welcome to season one, forty, six, episode, three of. Production of IHEART radio, this is a podcast where we take a deep dive into America shared consciousness and say officially off the top. Brothers Fox News Fuck Rush Limbaugh Book Sex and Ben Shapiro and. Per Karlsson. It's Wednesday. August Twelfth Twenty Twenty my name's Jack. O'Brien k.. I heard there was a special test that Donald took any owned the left, but you don't really care for Fox News do you It goes person woman man. Camera. TV. That's right. He's cognisant Fox reporters spreading propaganda. Gand. Prop who good that is courtesy Sam Bony Zamboni and I'm thrilled to be joined does always by my co host Mr Miles. You're. WACK. Your girl's a Hoe. You're broke the kid ain't yours and everybody know your old man think you stupid you be like. So I love my baby mother on never let her go and that is inspired by dark man x himself Earl Simmons one of the greatest rappers ply on the building right people you know what time it is double are all day thank you to everybody who got such a kick out of Ben Shapiro rap tunes I I think us say that is the song right those are the but you know I'm just going to start doing like grimy rap lyrics Really own it because there's a few X. Reese thousand you could actually not even say out loud in the. When without being arrested You know I will say this I I I like to energy the support for the Shapiro the impersonation. So I will try and hone that one To the point where I was freaking some people who thought they were listening convention I? Think our guest today said the said that he had that experience where he stopped paying attention when I was talking and then. You started talking Ben Shapiro again, and he was like wait. Did they go back to the recording? Was that miles? And how how quickly till Jack starts talking again, I get to check out again well we swish over to Maryland. We're thrilled be joined in our third seat by the hilarious. The talented. The writer of many a story that we cover on this daily Xikai is Mr j m mcnabb. Six Luke's Jam Good One. Great you so much for having me I'm here in my living room in another country. Yeah. We were just reminiscent how you're the like you our last show we recorded when you're doing our live tour. Ron Oh and just thinking of like how we're just looking back at that. We're like we got on so many planes and share so many drinks and joints people. by the grace of God, go i. The the open mouth kissing segment of the show. Yeah in retrospect. We're like Isaiah magic fans. So we'd like to start the show nice so. That's right. Baby Kissing. Oh, I'll ask this parent kissing I. Read. So many stories about how like you know fucking Americans just trying to invade Canada's at times. There are people like sort of seeing an influx of people trying to enter or people that are there and it's That people have Canada. Quick vibe check. Up North. Going on jam is that a whole vibe? It's Yeah. It's a bit of a Vibe I. Think People are pretty into the idea of keeping the border shut. I don't even know if I should be talking to you right now. I think there was a story about like a couple that snuck in across the border and was find something like thirty grand or something. But. There are still like there are still international flights going in and out. But you have to quarantine but like the border where you drive across I, don't think you can just going Alaska man just that's what I'm doing. Bro just going to power through. Hassen through. Everything here is on the honor system. So right that'd be just really quick house quality beach on Vancouver. Island. About now. Fun. Okay. I'm not that I'll go there I know it's out of the way but I am going to Alaska Anywhere Not Alaska. There's there's another thing that people were saying a lot of fake Alaska on the way to Alaska people. Then like camping places so Also. A lot of Americans like own cottages cottage country around here. So I think they kind of came in early and and we're able to kind of hold up there and you know right the manifestos. Yeah. But we will you know if if you try to come across the border, we will find you and then you know probably apologize for. So sorry about. That in and around your area it's pretty bad because you had those super spreaders come through right at the start of the pandemic. But in general is Canada like are things I was referring to us but. Things mainly open. So the joke was. Our. As, we previously reference to go. Now what what is the because what you're saying right and therefore Super Spreader I meant Cova nineteen because we're in the middle of the pandemic and what I was asking jam is what pandemic wise lease speaking. House Canada, doing I think generally like doing. Okay. I know like here in Ontario, the numbers have been pretty good for a while now but they're. Opening more stuff up just in the past couple of weeks like bars and movie theaters and things are a bit. Worrying Yeah, and then that's Open the bars just in time for reopening schools, which is the big debate. A lot of people aren't happy with how schools are being reopened here, but it's different all across the country. But so I think we're kind of in A. You know I know some areas like at West like we're doing better and then had some outbreaks again but generally speaking I think I think we're kind of at a crossroads because because we're coming to schools reopening I think that's going to be the big decider in terms of whether or not we kind of stay on A. Positive. Course in terms of the numbers or whether or not we see everything you know go to hell and. When schools reopened see she start looking like a little bit of the. A You know we've always thought anyway. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. Bars. Really need to be the very last thing that we open. They're not necessary like if anything like I, get it like Oh, you got to get your your sip on cause that's your thing. Liquor stores stay open, but you ain't got to just learn how to make it work on zoom. INS. Across legit Holler across your. Street. Right. But now to each other's faces like you do at a bar yeah, I mean it's also just like it's it's literally they manufacture a product that will make it harder for people to be responsible in terms of safety regulations in terms of not kissing or screaming into each others mouth. Yeah we're. Singing, sweet caroline at the top of their lungs into each other's faces neil diamond has been a super spreader for sure. Yeah. Oh, for sure. I think there was actually a bar in Europe that had to ban sweet caroline because yeah, it was it was a bar. Irish bar in. Barth alone. I think that had to ban sweet caroline because it's such a you know you can't keep the Europeans from in each other in the first place and then you've got these lyrics about and reaching out. Yeah. It. Is One of those like toward songs like Oh here we go a bunch of assholes going to start screening Bob Vessels I mean me. Also. With you know the like it plays a lot at Arsenal arsenal masters to when we win. So yeah, it happens. You know there's anthems would. RHA I'm we're to get to know you little bit better in a moment i. tell our listeners a few of the things we're talking about. We're GONNA talk about Russia has solved. The problem we've been talking about thus far they have the vaccine or at least they claim to have the vaccine. Time, we're hoping that Russia intelligence hacking is really up to par and is just crushing it all the best information However, the fact that they're rushing into, it is wearing a couple of reasons we'll talk about those do a quick trump bs roundup will do. A weird news story I hadn't noticed miles that you flagged as the say has seen a spike in people bringing guns onto airplanes were trying to very strange very idiotically. Yeah. We're going to check in with a couple stories actually that we've covered in the past first of all, we're going to check in with a smash mouth and how their performance all its. sturgis motorcycle rally. and. We're also going to check in with a bench pirro just just doubled down on his cellphone by being like my wife said doctor and she says. Peas are not supposed to get wet at all. That's a problem. That's a problem. If they do, you should call the police anyway we're not really gonNA check it on that. Because we talked about it yesterday. We're going to talk about Dr Pepper. We're GONNA, talk about the trolls franchise and some of their merchandise that has. Caught the eye of two non and. We're GONNA. Of course, ask the question we try to ask as often as possible. What's going on with Mr Peanut? He, his story line is endlessly fascinating. Doing. Yeah. Well. Fuck. He died great. Fuck it. Yeah. There's a baby but like I don't care, I'm not invested that. Of the peanut family they're grit, there's greater appeal there. Then I think I realized because people do seem to keep talking about it anyways but I jam, we like to ask our guests what is something from your search history that's revealing about who you are. Well. I was looking into a my kids are really into the muppets right now and specifically they've been watching like the new muppet babies. And There's a new muppet babies. All you're talking about Scott Gairdner tiny puppets love tiny bits. Occurs. I think it's like a Disney plus thing. sidebar do this Scott gairdner animation tiny puppets is the funniest thing because it's the most blatant ripoff of muppet. The rest of it. Not, a rip off and like they fight tooth and nail like at one point, the creator of the show comes on set the record straight but it's like, how could it be this? Frog is called credit. Is Genius. But. You're looking around at A. Baby. I was specifically looking to see if there is any kind of continuity to them up would make sense because we also watched like the first muppet movie, which is about how they all met when they were not babies when they're full grown what? Fuck yes. I was trying to reconcile that it's like. Is there any kind of explanation? So I did Google it sounds like an episode of after hours by the way where you? Recreate the whole background and. We'll have this the thing I looked it up, and there were like a lot of people have have dug deep into this like. I found one there was like a really long essay on medium called. The muppet babies cannot and should not be treated as muffin cannon. Well and trailing I thought like the best explanation I've found was like someone posted on Reddit, basically suggesting that the first movie and like the TV show where you see the behind the scenes that's the real muppets and then the movies in between where and like the muppet babies are are all things that like the muppets. Have Acted in. Getting. A lot of the time right like exactly. Yeah. So so by that token, like the muppet babies was like them selling out in the eighty S, right. Cartoon. Yeah. I. Mean. It makes sense like there's so many like eighties pop culture references throughout. So it makes sense that they're just trying to cash in on George Lucas and Steven Spielberg style things. So it does it does make sense. You know if you do a bit of work which I did because we're in the middle of a pandemic and. tend. To do. What's up with what's going on with nanny in the new? MAPA BABIES NANNIES there. It's the same deal. You only see her legs but voiced by Jenny slate. Okay, this might be a new generation of nanny maybe. Yeah. Is She still rocking striped? leggings she is yeah and you don't see her and you don't get any inkling as to why she don't easily. Time. All right. Any get out Bro. How did you? What did you picture nanny looking like as a kid? Did you have I always pictured like a blonde woman kinda looked a little bit like a grownup penny from inspector gadget I think. I actually it's weird. Intentionally avoided trying to think of what nanny looked like 'cause I was having trouble like I was like wolf these people look like this and if they do a startup so it and they look like this, what does this person like I don't even want to go there I just take it as. Just like what whatever you're in the way because it's about the muppets and thank you, Nancy, everything you do but please get back to bear. And you know I'm the same with podcasts I don't WanNa know what what you people look like? Oh. Yeah. No. And when they do the for late for our listeners who have not looked us up do not. Just just keep it make it pleasurable for you. Just just enjoy the voices because our growing Sosa by the TAT. Yeah. By the neck pets. Bring to the table and you know I kinda rushed into getting those four Audi rings as neck Tattoo. You know I think it looks. Jam. What is something you think is needed. For overrated, I put down a Kevin Costner. overrated. Sorry rated. I thought you said Kevin. Costner. was rated did said. No Kevin Costner. The actor is incarcerated. Right. You said, there's an saying. There's a lot of good Kevin Costner. This episode is over Jam. Just. Joking. Go ahead. There's a lot of good. Kevin Costner movies I'm not GonNa say that Kevin Costner movies are bad. I love a lot of Kevin Costner's movies but I struggle to think of like a cost movie where he was forced to emotes or. Do anything other than maybe throw on a pair of glasses like for his brow. Yeah. It's not a good actor. He's. Just, he just Kinda got grab on the show Superpower A. Z. What's the shallow stone and it's fucking. Bro So number one fucking drama on cable man. Yeah. Lost in it, I. Think Movie Star and actor are two completely separate. A skill sets I think he is a great movie star. He's the best example of somebody who has all of one and none of the other like he is not an actor in the least bit. He just knows exactly like. Where to be an how to look and everything and like that's that's why there's like these really handsome dudes who become good directors because they become movie stars without being really good actors at all they just like no. They're like, what? Like like you know the the do that like women's loved back then like he was just had that vibe of like that's what this star is and then he had to merely appear in the context of being like star guy and he's a good man Robin Hood don't care if you can't act great bodyguard sure does have suit and he'll just like get stu scary stuff great I mean I did like wider but I don't know if I liked him and. Say. Oh. You know what? I can't waterworld Ah don't even talk about the water world is untouchable. Fantastic. He spoke Portuguese Rican it that was some range and he was had gills. Thank you I still like? The world he you know he could have been balked on the head as an Iowa farmer and woken up waterworld. With it's more. It's more than that. It's more than that more. Farmers who have gills behind their ears jam because He kind of like if it was like a dream if all of waterworld was a dream sequence that like the guy in field of dreams was having would make as much sense and on the performance. The hell out of those ear Gills Bro. That's like you could tell he had gills from the START I feel bad because convincingly trick zone P.. Was Converted to potable water. But yeah, he really does he has. No. I remember as a kid seeing him win like best director and best picture for dances with wolves and I got angry. and. And I don't know why I was like, fuck this guy I don't know why I have no fucking idea why. But I have a very visceral. Strong memory of watching that happen and being like really dissatisfied with. A lot of those handsome dudes who become really good directors make movies that don't really hold up and I feel like Costner Ben Affleck's some of those Mel Gibson like when you go back and watch braveheart, it's pretty I mean just go. Up Against Godfather three. And it and it beat Godfather three. You beat Francis Lord Out Father Yes dude that should the sickest one and this year I. Haven't Costner Win Over Godfather fucking three Horse Shit and y'all know it. Cigarettes the sickest one is my favorite. It's not the best one. What? Is something you think is under Ada Jim. Underrated it was just thinking about physical media and and DVD's and BLU rays which I still buy because I don't know if you guys saw that there was an article this week that. A lot of moving towards we're talking about on the Internet because Disney is not gonNa make a cakewalk Lou raise. Yeah of their live action stuff, which is a bit concerning because it could be like them dipping their toe into the water of of not making physical physical media anymore, which is extra problematic because they own streaming service and they own. A lot of movies at Fox. So I I don't know I could foresee a world where you know you can't watch die hard unless you pay a premium at Disney plus you know it does but you know if you have it on DVD, you can watch whenever you link. Yeah and four ADP you know really. GotTa. Love it. I should. Know. But you can get a Blu. Ray. Now will you can't if it's a Disney or if there's certain things like I just found out Dave Schilling tweeted that kids in the Hall Brain, candy is not available on DVD. Anymore. Well first of all out of print, I love I own I own brain candy on DVD like those are just certain things that are can into me that I own physical copies but it was interesting even here then I'm like damn like there's a whole. People need them in there. There are some movies that are not streaming like A movie podcast, we just talked about cocoon. On anything you can't get it. Damn. I remember on DVD that movie freaked me out. That's what the all the old people in that. Like entertain or the retirement community? Yeah it's terrifying. Because weren't they all like children cocoons like in a pool or some shit wine it's yes. Alien Cocoons in a pool basically make senior citizens horny. Yeah. That's. What happened to me gotTa people don't know this. But that movie and Gremlins shared footage the cocoons and the pool were both they just pulled. Searcher. That is a conspiracy batteries not included available on DVD. That's a good question. If we're really going to get down to brass tacks like that better be out there physical media. Copies of it probably is okay. You can get on DVD just can't get it on digital anywhere, right? Yeah. But I do feel like this may be as as the access gets to movies and TV shows extreme. We have a glut of streaming. Entertainment available to us but that is not the end game for these companies right? They want to be able to eventually. Make these things harder for us to get smart. You do this short term use you knock off the physical copies and begin you know they're saying people it bleeds into our streaming service when people just have the fucking DVD's they can watch over and over and by that. So we do that get some more people in streaming than P like physical copies will be a thing of the past that we then bring back out and people that Oh my God getting all the I mean. That would be that's that's what they're what they're saying these boardrooms Jack that's what I'm telling you. Yeah, unfortunately. And finally what's a myth jam? What's something people think is true you know to be false or vice versa. Well, there was talk a few weeks ago about how Superman is kind of all American Dean Cain said something about how deans fuck wit. These days you wouldn't be able to say that Superman, fights for the American way or something like that, fuck? Yes. which is stupid and I even feel bad for bringing up the name Dean Cain because no one should be talking about dean. You're just talking about him. was there yesterday we're talking about Clark Mike Lois and Clark. It's in. Everyone's talking about Lois and Clark That's why I brought this up. No but there's the sense that he's all American if you guys know that the. Co created by a Canadian yeah. He's French-canadian Dad Right. co-creator was from Toronto Oh wait but isn't he isn't one of his parents french-canadian. Oh, maybe. I know he's his real name is Dean Tanaka. That's where my I think I mentioned. This is time because Dean Cain? Dean. CAIN Superman. Superman still, I'm still hyper focused on this man Dean Cain go on I. Digress. Miles. So that is a myth that we need to bus for you. Dean Cain is not actually superman. What the fuck you're talking about. Look at him. Look Brussels Comic Con Twenty Eighteen. He has the fucking curl. Yeah. Got The curl is legit he he does like That's the end of it. Okay. Okay So, we should just move on. You make this episode real fucking weird real quick if you keep up with that. The the CO creator of Superman is is. Was Canadian and and the early comics based on Toronto. That's what he sketched. That's what the. Daily Planet was the Daily Star, which was named after the Toronto Star. So you know. I'm just trying to make Dean Cain look stupider as as gay. Yeah I mean. He's he's become wildly conservative. Now he's really out there are you is on the I think the NRA like board directors at point. A bone of his bone of fetus where I guy famous for making for being a character on which guns did not yet and we're like pretty useless but he's like you gotta protect these rights. Yeah. He's the his whole evolution has been very interesting over the years. Superman is an immigrant. He is a journalist. He is a I mean, those are the two main things. He's Antigun. He's always like bending guns and shit and he was anti nuclear proliferation in the eighties. So Fuck Outta here with that he's only American shit but he's always damning women and shit. It's like yo come on Bro like. You know pull up for the people equally, you know what I mean. Yeah Oh one thing I just wanted to say the communist vaccine. I don't know if you've ever done. If you watch Howard Stern Ronnie the limo driver guy who's going to Howard stern he got busted using a photo shopped image of Dean Cain as his own head shop or had headshot. What did he photoshop just like made them like a little? Yeah like it was. Just slightly like making it a little bit more like him, I guess there was some overlap but then. He was using for five years then he got called is like no and then All Right? Yeah. I've been using a Photoshop Dean Cain had shocked. That's great. All right guys. Let's take a quick break. When we come back, we will talk about Superman's true home. Russia. We'll be right back. Hey Miles Jack to work. I've been noticing that you've been falling asleep on Mike while we're recording the show. Teacher. I know I've known. Judge. Painted the is on the sunglasses and Look, you need to try nature valley packed sustained energy bars they've got to varietals they're delicious. They're packed with hardworking ingredients like nut butter. You got the creamy nut butter. You got the crunchy nuts and seeds you you. We cranberries blueberries Babe. Yeah and it's gives you long lasting energy look you and I we host two shows a day we have hours and hours of content. Then we go and do our other jobs It's a lot. anyways there's too delicious varietals, peanut butter cranberry you got your own butter blueberry. cranberry on. Butter Blueberry. Nature Barabati. Try New Nature Valley packed today available wherever you buy groceries in store online. Again, Try Nature Valley packed sustained energy bars today. Money is something we've talked about a lot on this show especially when it comes to women and the Awkward Taboo that they're still is around for a lot of us, how are you with Money Samantha? It took me a while to finally get to I am in kind of understanding finance because growing up I definitely did not talk about it with my parents that was something that we learned about. Honestly I don't think I even knew how to do a checkbook until I got a checking account which was right before I went to college I think and even when I was at home, it was my dad made the money and my mom handled the finances and she would tell us whether or not we could afford to get McDonald's. I was really fortunate because I was the banker at my elementary school bank and my friends as I've grown up. We've been really open with money and how much remain can how much we spend on things and it's just been a huge benefit for me when it comes to things like negotiating salary or knowing how much is too much to pay for my apartments and when we talk about things as we often do on the show like the gender wage gap and patriots parents, it's just it's such a big deal to talk about finances. Man I'm kind of jealous I wish I had that. But luckily, there is a new podcast called friends who talk about money and it is from John Hancock. It brings friends and families and couples together take on the money taboo. Hosted by writer and financial advocate Claire Wasserman friends who talk about money as a show where you get to listen and people discuss the role money plays in relationships from siblings sharing a phone plan who couples navigating a career change. So eavesdrop on the financial conversations you've been avoiding and get advice from the experts to help you navigate those awkward many moments in your own life find France you talk about money from John Hancock wherever you get your podcast. And we're back and yes, we know about Red Sun we've all read it. So yeah, we know the Red Sun. It's the graphic novel with sermon is it reimagined a different world where instead of landing in a Cornfield Niwa Superman lands in Russia and comes up as part of the Soviet Union. And Yeah Dude I've read every word that. No. Her tending like I have and in no way just been pretending like I have my entire life go ahead jam I'd like to see comic that imagines an alternate reality where Dean Cain was born in Russia. The world would be. Safer less J. M. get on. Right away. All right. Let's talk about Russia though. Big Vlad DJ Vlad Mr Fuck Outta here Putin. Yeah. He has officially dunked on the world. Because he has the vaccine. They've got it. You made it. They got it his got it. He's like sorry I don't know about. Ivanka. My daughter is fine and she what's the things she does like competitive aerobics what's his only have that one daughter? I believe. So but isn't that the thing that she does what's like the very niche sport that she does that he's like and I will build a entire center for this. I forget what it is some kind of like very interesting. No, there's two. There's your Katharina and Maria apparently. So it'd be interesting to see which one has been given the vaccine which one he loves his favorite. Yeah. I mean. So he comes out being like. The quote that that in the New York Times that they have from says, it works effectively enough forms stable immunity and I repeat it has gone through all necessary tests. It works effectively enough is a weird. That not the endorsement that you want to hear on any. That we could probably find the few people it did work on and then pretend this is the majority of results. But yeah the the thing about the necessary tests is what a lot of the science community is really really uneasy about we talked about living maybe last week or maybe Monday. About how experts in the US are really worried about how the administration was just wanting to Russia vaccine all these phases of testing are so important. So they were like you know again in this instance, like please do not fuck around in skip parts of your testing just to score some propaganda points for like so you can get your approval numbers up a little bit in Russia but this man is cutting corners like he's drifted in a two thousand, two Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder gt just fucking skirt through everything. The body that developed the vaccine. The Gum La Institute quote has yet to conduct phase three tests on tens of thousands of volunteers in highly controlled trials processing as the only method of ensuring vaccine is actually safe and effective. So, bad. Yeah. Might as well throw it out there. Just see you know get people confident and then. I don't see any way that this could backfire in a world in which I we can't even convince people. Vaccines are safe when they are safe Yeah meetings Just. The injuries you with these kids aren't some of the people that they tested it onto the doctors themselves. Get. The fact that Putin's daughter is one of the people I'm sure she wasn't like a randomly selected participants say that to get the confidence I was like, well, why would he put his own daughter at risk? They were dealing with it. I and people are like, Oh really just getting people in the military and they're like the same line is when there'd be like Oh, yeah, we give to these people these people already in the like without testing like they were all volunteers they all volunteered. We didn't just like hit him within say it was another thing why would we ever do something like that? So imagine going to the doctor and being prescribed a treatment and the evidence for a working was that the doctor's daughter. Taken it and was okay. I would be like. Are you are you serious like you want me to pay you money for that? Can I see your daughter right now? That I own. Seem like they're faking any kind of evidence they're just. Kind of admitting to the to how scans the the research? Yeah. Well I think the thing that's funny is like the US UK Canada have all accused Russia like hacking and being like they're trying to get all the proprietary Info on our vaccine research. So in a way like, yeah. Like to your point at the top of the show Jack it could be more of an international effort than we had even thought where it's like yeah. Actually because on the backs of all this other research has done. We kind just just kind of jumped ahead and try to put something together now. A few researchers or scientific experts have pointed out in the fifties. Russia. Did this with polio polio vaccine were there like now we're good users roll dice would we'll test it in our own children luckily that ended up working. So I don't know if they're Kinda got the same confidence going into this one where they're like it's fucking man. See what happens but yeah, I think the scary part is the lack the these hit people's confidence in the science sciences that could occur from something like that. But also like in the phase three trials where a lot of the real subtle side effects and these other things apparently are like picked up and they they are able to catch them at that phase so. Without that kind of testing I can only imagine. How bad it could get or you know how great it could be who knows. Right. It is interesting because Russia has always had like I think it's an apocryphal story that they would send like four people into battle with one gun and just like the person who had the gun, we'll get killed and then the next person we'll pick it up but I think it's kind of a good summary of the ethos the Military Tho- select the idea that they would just push like yeah, we're yeah we're just gonNA push this through and some people are GonNa die and were kind of good with that I don't know ethically. Not Okay. Scientifically might be valuable in a situation where you're pushing to get a cure faster than other countries. What's the over under that trump just brings that thing over here. That vaccine. Look at what happened my lady just came through with the hot hot vaccine tiffany's taken it. It's. Taken it that getting worse? Illegitimate one I don't acknowledge. They've only got. Yeah I mean I'm assuming that Putin is doing this. So he helped trump to. Well, I could also see him doing it to. Try to have some leverage in negotiations but here it is so much leverage. Yes. He's even like like Vladimir's I mean at this point I would just be a real asshole. You can have this one it's fine donald but but they are both kind of in similar situations where the you know the population is not happy their performances respectively as leaders and they both would tremendously benefit or have a little bit of an approval bump by you know Roraima vaccine and then suppressing any stories about how things went terribly wrong or people who had side effects, etc. I do just want to say that we are recording this before. Biden announced his VP pick apparently it's like imminent like in a matter of minutes so. You will know that we. We do know it because of our inside sources, but we've been told not to tell you guys yet. So we'll just let you guys know that and talk to you about it on the trending or tomorrow. All right. Let's do a quick speaking of our fearless leader. Let's do a quick. Check in with his round of bullshit quotes for the past twenty, four, forty, eight hours. He said that the Spanish flu ended World War. Two. said that George Washington wouldn't beat him in an election pre pandemic big facts. He said that if Joe Biden winds everyone will have to learn Chinese. What the fuck is. It really is it's just. Like we can do is laugh because we're you know we're at the we're in a bus being driven by this guy, and we're like I. Don't know what it just any can anybody do anything about this. More op-eds being ridden of like, please this presidency now but it's all like. Nothing's going to change and all we can do is just be like. He thinks he doesn't know anything and he's clearly desperate to do something about any hope was that we were in a bus but I think we learned during the pandemic. We're actually on a Airbus we're on a seven, forty seven being flown by this Guy Concorde supersonic jet with first time pilot. Donald Trump. We'll say the Spanish Flu World War Two thing is weird because like I think so much of the crazy shit he says is to distract us in you know kind of changed the narrative of what's going on like I think a lot of that. He doesn't actually but this was actually he was really trying to make a point. You're so completely fucked it up. It, just made him look. So incredibly stupid I I mean I think the point he was trying to make I mean, this is what happens. I mean without that kind of research into the Spanish flu. Then you don't have scientists working on things that would later give way to the Manhattan project, which then gave way to the atomic bomb, which ended World War Two. Battle he's having badly. That is completely fucking up the pandemic response was actually good because no no, he's a bigger problem for people to saw that were. Very, funny. He believes he's just confusing wars. Got It right? Yeah. Yeah. But even that timing doesn't really make. It didn't end. World War One. It was like no. Bathing caused a lot of deaths because everybody was together because of World War, what you historian but is. Bullshit but. I think he was trying I think he was trying to say something and just his brain. and. It all came out just like diarrhea. Heard a smart point from somebody and this is what happens to smart points in his brain is they get like melted into soup yeah and then and then. Show. Starts to. Yeah The Washington. Great. I would have beaten. Yes. Either they weren't would. So I woke as. George Washington baby freaked out by all the cameras and the airplane. To. Run away the degree to which he seems to be comfortable resting on the laurels of like how much he would have won by if pre pandemic like I think we should steer in that direction get him to just be like nobody can see this coming. have one I would have been on Mount Rushmore just be like Yep yeah not. Let. Him Live in that reality where I just WANNA shut out my African American jobs rule I together hold onto victories for decades hoping that we will still remain relevant. Really just. y'All were keep keep talking about the past. The job will be like member Hala. Before firefighters man remember that's J. Lol it's like okay. Thank you Sir Geoffrey. Well speaking of Fire Fest, we do have a festival that is being celebrated as we speak we talked a little bit about it last week but what's the thing called the Motorcycle Rally dirges. Is is happening. There's been some video leaking out of what it looks like. It's not like you know only a couple of people wearing masks. It's like if you're wearing a mask, you're going to your ANTIFA and yeah, you're antipathy to break. People are now wearing masks and win a cameras pointed at them. They mouthed the words fuck masks. That's what's happening right now in sturgis smash mouth's performance which you know I would have saved for the last night. So you kind of have something to build to. But smashmouth performed to occur. It's really funny to watch the news clips where a people like on CNN they're doing voiceovers. So you can only see the smashmouth performance you can't hear it and the the lead singers like gestures and stage presence very. Reminiscent. Of Somebody Looks like guy like fifty year old guy trying to wrap at a wedding party or something like on on the Florida wedding like he's just like. Remembering to make a gesture with his hand every once in a while but anyways his quote from the middle of the concert was now we're all here together tonight and we're being human once again fuck that Cova she. Here's another one from Shrek. Fuck that Kovic. Shit. Saw Body. Wow. It's really woo. I I wasn't aware how like completely harebrained that guy was. Like I mean because I was never a fan of smash mouth and he was always like a run like living punchline but man to go up there full like fuck that Cova Shit like. That arrival rapper you know like you're talking about funding payments make like it's so the perspective of it is so off. Cova the rappers. Here Yeah Yeah exactly book that coach Oh. Suv Yeah but I mean it seems based on who he was performing in front of it seems like that. Kovic, it would be the like opposition, the all the scientific facts around Cova de and the preventative measures that were being taken not just saying Fuck Cova because you know the the interviews with people on the ground at Sturgis they all think fit the numbers are overblown. That It's great that they can go somewhere and not wear masks so. South, Dakota's numbers have been very low because it's one of the least populous chunks of land in United States and we'll see. Me Graduate I'm heading over there tomorrow. Yeah. Yeah. So we'll we'll. Fire feel that uncomfortable. But I trust my biker brethren man to keep me safe me a man of color. Bikers I feel like is it'll be all good great white speaking of. Great Whites great way had to apologize reasonably for performing in front of an mass crowd indoors. They already like have the track record. Yeah. They they're pyrotechnics show killed. One hundred people. That's right. That's okay. I, was like I I. No. Like the only time I've heard great white was in relation to another con it was that. You. What's their song man once bitten twice shy girl I. Don't remember if that's the right tone net just been putting those lyrics ask for songs for the tone or the key man do. As, an outside observer I kind of wish that these concerts that might cause like spikes deadly outbreak can we get some better band's doing it at least it's worth it. Yeah. Well I mean, this is like the kind of thing like me in college like it should be like lame bands people who like those bands like she shit like fuck, them. Don't don't let us should happen fucking radiohead show. Dying for SMASHMOUTH DYING FOR By the way jam. So you wrote the story up for us and you found out that smashmouth is no stranger to socially conscious music. Oh, that's right. I had no idea that. Song walking on the Sun was inspired by a according to the guitar player. Quote the Rodney King thing. Because the world was so crazy at the time quote we might as well be walking around a planet on fire. You know the sun a planet on five. Per Son Fantasy. It was a sort of can't we all get along song from the time when I wrote it because? Way So. Who wrote it the not the singer. Guitar player road or he's claiming he wrote it I don't know why you would claim your. GET IT AIn't no joke. I'd like to buy the world a Toke and teach the world to sing in perfect harmony. You know she's just by the world a Toke. Joe God. Is Other. Says, I love attack I know out by it it's like okay. It it's like they're really just trying to do that Kuhn by. There's a lot of lyrics in this motherfucker, but he the same guitar player said, it was said, the song was basically a social racial battlecry which I did not get an all from that song. Just like fashion, it's a passion for the with it in hip If you've got the goods, they'll come and buy just to stay in the click. So is he saying that racial justice is a? A fashion fad the people. Very I do remember analyzing these lyrics when the song came out and we were all just dissertation. Tad Alice's awesome on our back but it's a very cynical song. It's like so don't delay act now supplies are running out I mean I can't help but wonder. What it was sound like if Ben Shapiro. So don't delay act now supplies are running out. Villa live six to eight years to arrive, and if you follow, there may be tomorrow but if the first shun. You might as well be walking on the sun and also just if if it's wet down there colleague. Hala doctor to all my female listeners it's the one thing I can do please please look out for the the wet factor below the equator. There is like a dark Mama's handkerchief is soaked with their tears because her baby's life has been revoked bond broke up. So choke up and focus on the close up mister wizard can't reform. No God like Hocus pocus. That one felt a little bit real. That's a little bit what's going on. But A music video was them like a pool party or something? It was white guys in bowling shirts and Doris. Lester may have been actually on something about the doors for freedom. Getting that cohort of people to just like the guitarist was writing like some protests track in the lead singer was like this song is definitely about a hot day. Wow Wow. Oh Yeah. Oh Yeah. The lead singer definitely seems to be the asshole in the group based on honesty home they'll hold banned. The whole band is they're playing so I don't know whose original who like who's how many subs did they get also I, get it though too like you know you need to check but is this is this the look I mean to quote the lead singer? Echo it should you throw one more piece of Shit on fucking stage? I'm GonNa come find your ass. Your ass whoever the fuck you are out there. You WanNa be a bad ass come up here. Come on come. Up here come on, come on stage. That was during the preamble to all star. And then he went and fought somebody in the crowd the band vamp to the beginning of all star for. Like twenty minutes. So is band like that nervous and embarrassed family and he's like. Get Dad get dad pulling back like I video that you saw went viral of the sons having lift their dad out of the store because he was yelling at people wearing masks. We'll see we're a mask. You know it's fake Komo motherfucker and like he was trying to fight someone and then his two sons who are also wearing masks. So embarrassed like Dad, dad come on come on to the born the dad like the kid bear. Hugs. His Dad and lifts him up and walks him out of the store just mortified but it's also like A I think we all. We've all seen families like that were like the one of the parents is like, wow, in and everybody's gotTa. Do Damage Control so Maybe that's maybe that's the smashmouth dining. All right guys let's take one more break. Mogi right back. Hey. Miles. It's Jack from work. In your bushes once again I know Thank you for opening your door I. didn't open the door. Well, you didn't lock it, which is basically the same thing. Anyway I WANNA talk to you about You know I love Audible A. Huge fan huge ear reader. Loved to read with my ears and I I've been reading people were asking about what the book on why Mar Germany that I was reading the death of democracy and when I say I was reading I mean I was listening to it oh audible. Yeah. Oh Adults don't read as much as they used to listening to an audio book is a good way. I've look I I'm in a couple book clubs there've been moments where I tried to read the roll on Hardcover Book and I'm the IT's getting down to the wire and I need sometimes it's nice to listen to a book at one and a quarter speed and get all that information in quickly 'cause I'm not a big fiction guy but the nonfiction, it's Oh. There's nothing better than just have to read it at a half speed. Slowed all the way down man. All right. My brain just is very slow anyways. That's not even an option guys. But. So we've talked about audible before I've explained why I love audible but something that I'm just learning during quarantine is they have so much other things to offer. Lake stories audible dot com is something that I just found out about. I am going to be using it. They have different categories of stories that you can listen to with your family a section littlest listeners that I can listen to with my two and four year old that includes Winnie the Pooh story party Laurie Berkner Song, and story Louis Brechner when my kids favorite musicians. Yeah. You got to explore audible it's not just audio books anymore guy's so claim your first free audio book by going to audible dot com slash TV's or text t d Z. to five hundred. Five hundred that's audible. Dot Com slash td, Z. or text t d said to five, hundred, five, hundred and get a free audiobook. Hey, Miles Jack How's it going man good man you know just taking in that new car smell as much as I can help open my lungs a bit cooped. I'm feel cooped up man I gotta get. I gotta get out of the how you guys do. You don't see that's probably not cooped up. You need to get see you vida crossover utility vehicle up. So. Truth be told at the beginning of this I was driving around in a Mazda C x nine, twenty twenty. Miles we love what you're doing. Please try this car out. Let us know what you think. I'm driving in this thing it is the handling I gotta say is so smooth. We're already fans of your driving period they. knew out there on the roads and they were like we gotta get this guy behind the wheel. The new seeks not it can do anything it intuitively response to me as a driver. So you know how you oversteer like if you're like going down straight away, maybe you you you start doing these adjustments with the steering wheel, it's actively trying to make. Sure, you're being as efficient as possible with your steering wheel the exterior design that is so sleek yet aggressive pull up say, oh my gosh this man is probably a one percent and they go you know what? No, he's probably sensible, and that's why I believe this car really was bill for me why? Yes I'm a black person who likes styling. Who likes efficiency who likes minimal a minimal flexing if you like to say but still enjoys a bit of elegance. They truly design it like there's an art to how they design it. It's not just a science. No cars is an art tend it's for people like me I like to drive no I'm not someone out here who needs to be. Doing three, hundred miles an hour. But I liked the handling of a good vehicle and I love a great bow sound system which these CV's can come equipped with. So if you want more information on the Mazda C UV lineup including the first ever see X. Thirty GOTO MAZDA USA dot com slash iheart, and don't forget to explore their strongest finance options. And we're back. So this is an interesting story airport screeners for the TSA announced on Monday, the rate of weapons uncovered at US airports. Jumped to fifteen point, three weapons per million passengers screened in July from five point one. That's it tripled. Yeah which. Like so I hear it again, eighty percent of the guns were loaded. Well. That's great. They were getting loaded. It wasn't even like Y'all got the camera my backpack don't worry I'll have an commissioner or anything like that. Loaded fucking guns bringing it on the plane and the rate of people going planes should dropped by seventy five percent right I mean the cynical answer would be that only people flying right now would be the ones who are this unaware of their surroundings to to bring. That is a things right there's like the sheer panic about corona virus some people you know a gun like FBI background checks for gun purchases has been going up like since lockdown but in the last two months, it's gone up even higher. So it's probably like a lot of freaked out people who are new ignorant gun owners thinking like they're just like this like having the fucking H.. K.. US peon you. Is like bringing pat on a plane or something like it's not a very I I'm not sure like it has to be out ignorance I. Don't know if it's or I think we'd be hearing more incidents, people like brandishing weapons on planes realize like Oh you can't. You can't bring that here I just bought it in the thing is I like to keep the four five on me like Michael Coming back from retirement. That or I'll keep two nines on me like Wayne Gretzky. That is usually what they sound like. Just. Quoting rap lyrics. was, that David Lynch. The Like David Lynch yeah, that's a good sign for the quality of new gun owner that America is. I can bring this on getting right now. What are they thinking? Exactly like Oh man I gotta get to this place but I gotTA. Have that thing on the whole time or like I'm GONNA move here. But my plan is to stay protected when I go to this cities to fight off the hordes of desperate people I'm the mindset is really like this sort of you know cruel and unusual world sort of symptoms happening people yeah and I think a lot of people are getting guns because of you know the uprising. On their local news, which is framing it as you know, they only showing the. Looting and it's all out of context. It's just like. Destruction. So they're scared and then. This is the only time they're leaving their house. So they think to work zone out there I. Don't know I gotta stay if you work TSA or you know people, you've seen something like that what's going on? Were they afraid to let us know. And Xicheng. If you work for Dr Pepper, we also want to know what's going on if y'all. It is actually hard to I. I had trouble. I went to a seven eleven. And I, Dr Peppers like one of the I actually liked Dr Pepper in context I'd start all started when I started having Montreal smoked meat that is I gang member game outside of the show And I started sipping it with that and they don't. Will you normally as a Cherry Cola? If I was I was looking up like how you respect the Montreal smoking sandwiches released supposed to be cherry coke or like a Janki. Cheap Cherry Soda Button. So I've been I've been getting into my doctor pepper that's like my one little like Soda Indulgence that I do. And I was surprised. I was the guy was saying it's like Oh yeah like it comes in and out he's like they're having problems and I was like sure maybe like seven elevens having problems. But then there was like this tweet of Dr Pepper being like look we get him and we're going through some shit right now. Is, probably Dr Pepper is trying to work on a vaccine on the. Yes. Yes. So the thing that they have, it says having trouble finding your favorite Dr Pepper product we're doing everything. We can to get it back into your hands that means working with our distribution partners to keep shelves stocked nationwide while ensuring the safety of our employees. We appreciate your patience in encourage you to contact your local retailer directly for the most up to date availability of Dr, pepper products they won't give her a comment on this either to elaborate Dr Pepper is like a huge like cult thing. I didn't realize that but there's like all these. Famous people who had just only like John I think John Lennon would only drink Dr Forrest gump like four. Liked him. Dr Pepper. Hillary Clinton big. Dr. Pepper head. Big Chairman. I don't know if that's true. It'd be any keates. Okay, I see what you're doing this. Idea was from Dr Pepper. Is that true? No. RIFFING, here baby. Weight. Sergeant. John Lennon really liked Dr Pepper. Yeah he really loved Dr. Pepper but I love that idea that kind of the first time I had heard that of like a food that people are like, okay. You need to pair this with a diet mountain dew like something. A soft drink pairing like you always hear about it and winds. But that's Dope I. DO I do like have very specific sodas for specific occasions I do like a cherry coke. When move to movie theater Popcorn so good you to. Any this one's eating my popcorn. Yeah, which isn't a joke. A weird punchline that take. You don't know what it what the set up was. Are you a Dr? Pepper clan jam. I've had it. I like it. I I'm not a big Fan. No I I wouldn't. I wouldn't know what to pair it with feel to intimidate. Writings. And you go to the fancy restaurant and like the waiter like tastes the Dr Pepper for you, Right Well if you're having game I suggest Dr Pepper. As somebody who doesn't drink though it is real like you feel. Less than when they're like, oh, well, this now my wife. Yeah. They talk about pairings for my wife and I'm like all the Diet Coke. Yeah. DC's Ma'am. Could you make it a cold I like it with a? This is a south divide pheasant. Good with. Tab. I'll have that. That sounds good. Dope if if waiters were like, Oh, you north really good with this Oh non alcoholic heavy. Yeah. Exactly Joel, we need a better name for like a more adult sounding name for software remember like when Harry Potter was popular and they made like more adult covers. So people didn't feel stupid reading it if they were. Yes. On the subway s what we needed a soft drink that sounds like a more grownup thing that you can order. Fine. GonNa get more of professional adult than a doctor jam. Right. Professor on professor pepper just pepper MD.. Dr. Pepper Tenure and Ran Talk. We need to find out his first name, and then we'll just call him like reginald pepper. MD.. His full name is Dean Cain. Pepper. Let's check in with the world of trolls. It's been too long. So movie. Yeah. Yeah Talked about world. Tour. Felt, like I was a you know Karl. Marx having an acid trip of the future of capitalism. And so they they have drawn the ire of the Cunanan. Community there is a toy that went viral because some some Q. Supporters, some Q. Soaked Netizens were were claiming that they that the doll had a button between her legs. When you pressed, it would make a we or a oh not true not not actually true but it because of the Cunanan effect and the fact that they were able to gather like hundreds of thousands of signatures on a like online petition, they pulled this toy off shelves. But. We're button. It has a sensor on the area because it's post descent when it sits down and make like a funny noise when it sits down and they turned that into there's a button that you press under the address. And it's whatever I don't. That's that. So many leaps you have to take to be like what it's there, and then it goes we ono own. Oh Well that's I I you know I'm sorry to that company that had to deal with the. Man Maybe I'm not whatever yeah I don't care about the. Just, worrying sign of q becoming confirmation by. fucked. Yeah. Driving the narrative. The thing that really bugs me about this story is that the the cue people said that the toy by having that button. Sort of normalizes like pedophilia for kids to play with it, which is insulting, and also just a real misreading of the trolls movies because if you seen those movies and Jackie, wash them, right? Yeah I did the character poppy is an adult. At the same time I mean as a toy for kids, you don't want like sexual anything on a toy for kids. So we were that the case I would understand people being like, Hey, you know get the shit out of my kid's toy box but. I just it's. It's a made up thing that is. Like They have their coopting big parts of the pedophilia. Child, sex trafficking. Conversation, which is a problem, but they are like. Almost doing the bidding of sex traffickers because they are making that conversation. Yes. All about using a fake shit. Yeah. Because they're going after the trolls people going trolls. Random pizzerias that have nothing to do with it meanwhile, like for people who teen and Yeah Clint like they they bring up Bill Clinton and I'm sure like. Donald Trump. It's always maggots. It's like right? You're a man is in the photos but you but suddenly you can't go down the path there because he's undercover miles. Baby, he's done e BRASCO. means she's PEDALPUB RASCO. He's out here. It's The. Whole thing is so dark and again, it's like so many people just trying to make sense of a world that's so fucked up. But arriving at at that conclusion of very rev like messed up way the quote from the Q. Community was we have the power to stop the sexual exploitation pedophile grooming of our children even with the fake news and Big Tech Censorship we cannot be stopped. There's too many of us who are awake keep fighting Patriots Godwin's wins. All right. So this is an example of God winning apparently for God loved the world so much he removed the button from the troll dolls but. Yeah exactly on the sensor from the sensor bus. Yes. Yes. Yes. John. It's been a pleasure having you on the show. It's a pleasure. Working with you every day that we do this show So where can people find you and finally you can find me on twitter at J. mcnabb again. You can find I do a Co host a movie podcast most weeks called rewatch ability what she can find which actually I just realized. I. Think the company. That owns the podcast was bought by Hasbro so. I, say all of their decisions with the troll doll. Whatever they. Fine with me. And and just Yeah. Those places and is there a tweeter some other work of social media you've been enjoying? Oh. Yeah, I saw a let me get it up here. I did see tweet the other day. There was news that they're rebooting three men and a baby, and who is Peter Avellino on twitter tweeted that they should get Zachary Quinto to directed. and. That's a will. Oh. The original was directed by Leonard Nimoy and and he plays spock in the new ones. So a little star Trek. A little walk for. Air Nimble mines. Miles working people find you what's tweet you've been enjoying twitter instagram miles of gray other podcast for Twenty Day fiance were talking ninety day fiance highs book was Sophie Alexandra. It's always a good time. A couple of tweets I'm liking and away we go this one a few all tagged me in this tweet that was blowing up and I understand it was from at t's e teach us. It says a five to girl a six four man abrasion in a Vegan. All sit in a restaurant who telling you what they are. I. Don't know what I am more away. Another one from reductions at Reductions A. Personal Mask and like a visor on it, how to give a blowjob safely with a mask and shoot shield. another one from at Joshua Hall Joshua. Ben Shapiro sharing with the world that his wife Doctor, told him that wet pussy is a symptom of gynecological problem is the greatest self own in the history of cell phone cell phones it will never be surpassed. Other people can stop owning themselves because there's really no point. Seriously that is great summary. Rob Wissmann tweeted remember that Cameron Diaz movie where if she pushes a button, she gets million dollars but kills one random person magin braving that ethical dilemma for nine brunch eggs. We are and. Think we that I like. So much that I retweeted it. was from pixelated boat. Just had bench Shapiro coming and immediately calling an ambulance. Me On twitter at. Bryan find us on twitter at Daly's guys read daily Zeitgeist on Instagram. We have facebook fan page and a website lease I dot com post, our episodes, and our foot. Off The information that we talked about today's episode as well as the song we ride out on. What are we writing out on two days? This is a tracked by group Polity Hero. And I didn't know I don't know what euro is what he's about what they're about I don't know. What this artist is. When I heard the track it sounded like if like an algorithm got smart could have become R&B artists and started selling albums. because. It has a lot of Oh Kotor on it but like it's still feels a little bit like very digital but soulful at the same time. So it's just a fun little listen. It's called raw in pieces great title but I feel like that's what like how algorithm would like misinterpret the sentiment of like a song and be like Rod. NBC's because I will squeeze you till. Your life extends. but yeah, this is Hero piece. All right. We'll. We're GONNA ride out on that. The daily Zeitgeist is a production by radio for more podcasts from IHEART radio visits, the iheartradio APP apple podcasts, or wherever you listen your favorite shows that's going to do it for this morning, we'll be back with. A Camping Gain, what's going on I? Know it's been a while since you may have been out of the house living life like you used to. But you know what? There is the open road that still is out there and you should probably reintroduce yourself to in a Mazda. I was lucky enough to drive around in nine the last couple of months and I have to say. The C. UV lineup by Mazda is pretty wonderful. These vehicles are masterfully crafted. They have elevated design that's reflected in every detail from the the controller knobs to the steering wheel. It's all there. So if you want more information on the MAZDAS UV lineup including the first ever see thirty Goethe Mazda USA dot com slash Iheart, and don't forget to explore their strongest finance options. WHAT'S UP EVERYBODY WE'RE LA comedy group Obama's other daughters and on our podcast you down we're discussing what's going on in the culture. Everything from dating to their be look y'all I got dumped on face so Together. Thank you. So Come Kiki with us, enjoying the kinds of candy conversations you only have with your girl listen to you down on the iheartradio APP apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

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2003 Week 2: Patriots at Eagles

Patriots Dynasty Podcast

1:30:43 hr | 5 months ago

2003 Week 2: Patriots at Eagles

"This is christine brown. And while i have to listen to this podcast as my motherly duty. You have the choice. Not to my son's sometimes say some naughty things when the trying to be funny but really just being stupid. You still want to listen. Go right ahead. I am not your welcome back to the patriots dicey. Podcast hi gentlemen. I realized we've stopped introducing ourselves because we all know who we are since we've grown up together but if anybody's joining this week they don't know who we are. So i'm your host andy brown. I'm the the reasons podcasts exists. It's my fault of the browns squad. Lame is it my fault or is it not. Yeah it is exactly. i'll give you that one. The astle you're hearing now. Is our baby brother greg brown. Hi greg a andy. Great to be here. I like to think. I'm the creative direction of this program. I understand why you think. I d captain now and also with us introduce last because he gets no respect his middle brother seat breath. I'm only here because greg refused to do it at the beginning. He said not stupid. So andy i was on vacation. Said you want this microphone. Greg doesn't want it. And i said sure why not here. We are forty something episodes later. He knows been that many many episodes four hundred andy feels like just yesterday. We've actually been doing this for a year. We started last october. Because right around this time we were released. One of the first few episodes and i spent an entire week editing editing out all of the sounds of greg carving a pumpkin while he was doing the episode. Oh that's true son of a bitch. S sure people in the mood. You know it also love to hear. I don't know if you have any food you can eat or something you can drink on the microphone because people love listening to that you broke up again got it a fourth person robot that we have on this call all right. Hang on. we're back and we're back andy. Yeah gimme a test test me. Mommy mama mama donnie. That's on your end. A grid how. It sound a urine. Give me give me a range. No okay no no no. No no was that okay. Hearing has a new show you boys better not be. Your dick again comes from the top. I'll be super impressive. I was able to do this. Daring johnson out from over the top of the johnson so during this whole pandemic every time i get a little depressed and shit i buy something stupid that i don't need this case trace it. Is tom brady. Highschool jersey holy shit right. Or even know yeah. That's that's pretty. You know where he got it. The internet man. I went to a rabbit hole and somehow found tom brady ridiculous. It was like forty bucks from china. Obviously did you feel weird buying a up jersey of a player. that's not currently on the patriots. No but i felt weird of buying a jersey of somebody who at the time was not of legal age based kids jersey. Now that one got here that that hit me. And i felt a little weird about it that way though. It's a pretty sweet jersey. Yeah well the older. I get the more i think like. It's kind of ridiculous. I like idolized. These people that are like younger than make. Yeah you know like when you were like fifteen it was like yeah one day. I want to grow up and be that. No yeah now. It's like it's kinda sad now. Like i'm so fucking useless in my life that i have to light watched the block off one day my week every week. Just so. she's fucking young kids. That actually doing something with their lives to christ like a one percenter there. Okay steve political here at home. We got sunday's eighty i mean. Don't get me wrong that it was just a fleeting thing in my mind. It's not gonna stop me. Oh yeah. I'm still all for probably am speaking of jerseys. Who who do you have on their ooh. This is special. Treat for you guys right. Yeah yeah this should make the pod though because this in honor of the two thousand three starting is a eugene wilson jersey out that taco deep cut right so so like my excuse for my jersey purchases are you can find anything on ear. Where the hell did you find. A eugene wilson jersey. It's an interesting story. Because i'll stand up for ya six massive as address so it must be from. I mean around this timeframe wilson's only on the patriots for five years. So i would aben younger than sixteen when i got this. I remember it fitting like address. And i got for christmas and a pretty share. Mom and dad had to personalise. Sorry santa claus at the personalized jersey with the name. A number on it. Because they didn't actually sell eugene wilson jerseys as an expensive gag gift gag gift. I love you wilson. I did wilson stand okay. We'll see debut game here right. It may have been season. Yeah he was playing week one but yeah. He wasn't much happening in week. One next year is where it really puts his stamp on the league. Yeah well i mean. He has similar status. You're actually four and assumptions. But there's defended there. I'm not going to ruin spoiler. But there's one game where he just lays lum barry and that's what made by the jersey is basically that one game. Her ac can't wait till we get there but for now we're talking about new england traveling to philadelphia where i hear it's always sunny to city of brotherly up. Yeah no i. i know. There's a lot of love happening in in that area of the country. Unless you're saying close or this is the podcast of brotherly love. Only i love you guys do. I can't wait until like half an hour. This power where greg decides like usually does every week to say that he hates us. Covid yoga mood right. Now that's nice. Maybe we should do that every time before. The i agree. Shout out andy's wife. She's an excellent yoga teacher. I agree. I am also biased. But now she's legit yes. She is legit and just patients to put up with me every week that she's she's a preschool teacher. So she deals with three year olds all day and then comes home and deals with another one at home all day two year old. Dockery this down when she gets home but yes city of brotherly love. In the brand new lincoln financial field built this year. yeah And the commentators made some sort of comments phil simms and greg gumbel made some sort of comment about how when the eagles are actually good. The stadium's going to be great to play in for the eagles Hasn't happened yet. So but the booze were resounding like you fantastic which brings me to my first point of this game. It was really weird for me. And i'm surprised it hasn't hit me yet of listening to a game or watching a game where you can hear the crowd and it being like having an effect on the game he was super loud at the beginning of this game to the point where you know there was like false starts happening and bruce having trouble like getting audibles out and stuff like that and i've forgotten that was arcor booze stood up with me then just like the make. Tom brady and the blue birds are out in this game early early. Yeah heart and i was like wait a minute. Haven't the eagles bend like the nfc championship. Game a bunch of years. And like didn't they just come off the jv game. It's like week two. Well let's go right. I mean they're they're they've gone to two straight championships with a really talented team and blown it. And they're coming in this year being like okay. This is the year like it's super bowl or bust we can't keep doing nfc championships. And then lose two straight games right off the bat and they actually got shutout week one as well played in week one. The eagles played the bucks who was who they had lost to last year in the nfc championship game. Shutout seventeen nothing. Shutout barber put fucking veteran stadium to rest. I mean yeah he did. He can put that stadium to sleep. They went to the nfc championship this year as well and next year so just overreacting like crazy just like earlier and last week said drive into the game and they said this is a must win game and then we else to a week and a half into the season boat. Yeah both halfway through the second quarter and the pages are up to fourteen to three or whatever it was it though if if you have a enough talent on a team to win super bowls and you feel like you're kind of pissing away that like those golden years which they kinda did not good enough to make it four straight. Nfc championships and you don't win super bowl. That's that's a disappointment right. We can ask. Trevor about the tigers going to the nfl. The or a bunch of losing didn't the braves something similar to. Yeah you saying. But i think he'd rather be there saying the bill's going to super bowl losing them all they'd rather be there. Yeah but it's true but there's a different standard when you're that good of what you expect from angry but like at least new england there little more week to yacht blue and you're like all right. Now we early stops always most important. Football's later blah blah blah. I'm sorry you're talking about these. New england patriots have you. Have you listened to sports. Talk radio this year. The sky date falling on the they did. They did a bit on north carolina radio. This week they played a clip of michael fowler like sitting on the patriots and then shit on michael felber that was amazing and they call them kirkman. Add to intentionally or unintentionally i think unintentionally. Yeah probably pissed off elber so yeah that's all the stick is easy. There are talking about how ballot check like the game. He is beyond him and yada yada yada and he. He can't draft anymore all. I don't even wanna get into it. I got a proud that out. Real quick just typical bullshit. New england sports talk radio so i do have some notes on eagles fans though who want against now. Obviously they have quite a reputation. They do and it's worth discussing. Whether that reputation is legit or not. I quote here. The national perception philadelphia sports fans is that they are lunatics pathologically negative and i think it is a richly justified reputation. Who said that. It was like some guy wrote for a newspaper. Guy who knows perfect. Also have a quote from emmett smith. I don't know why they call the city of brotherly love. They never they never gave no love brothers here. Which coming from evans smith makes sense. They definitely hate the cowboys yes they. They booed michael irvin when they thought he was paralyzed. Yes yup his. His last like moments on a field was philadelphia. His neck injury. He never played again after that. I think that was the end of his career. Yeah well i wrote down a couple other ones. I thought were no where the i mean. Obviously we all know about them. Throwing snowballs at santa course. What i did not know is that part of the reason was because the team was winning they were staff. Fade started the season. i'm surviving. Yeah it started in eleven and they won two straight games and everyone was pissed because they were using your draft position a year. oj simpson was coming out of like. Oh yeah so. Fucking boozed up pissed off because i was winning as a jet sort of thing right there. Yeah there's an instance this is for the flyers where tie domi guy for maple leafs was getting fights He was like an enforcer and some fan broke through the glass in the penalty box and tried to fight tied domi and then tie domi just kicked his ass. Yes it's what he does for a living. Yeah exactly this. This was probably the most like offensive. This phillies game. Where there were these two fans there. There were getting kicked out. So there's an off duty cop and he's like he's getting these two guys reported and they're getting kicked out he's like twenty one year olds and as the guy is leaving. He sticks his finger down in throat and intentionally pukes on an off duty cop and his eleven year old daughter. Your all shit. yeah one. They're like a whole bunch of stuff when they won the super bowl to like there. Was somebody with the horse poop. Yeah like eating horsh it which you know That's usually final. If you want to celebrate that's great it doesn't hurt anybody else but that person you know. Yeah intentionally picking on somebody else. You got a lot. Collateral damage you just eating horse poop. You know you. I guess i mean i can't imagine it stayed down right on the pot. Andy all right. We'll look him up next on the pages eagles maybe the two thousand four super bowl episode. We'll have a month. Yeah that'd be guest. That's get so just like the touch on veteran stadium too. So that's the one thousand nine hundred. Seventy one to two thousand and two was veteran stadium and obviously it had like quite a reputation and i guess it had like a it was like unique in that it had a ton of different levels so there was a seven hundred level where it was so high up there that like. They said yet to use binoculars to see what was going on. And the wikipedia said it had a the seven hundred level had a reputation for hostile taunting fighting public urination and general strangeness describe a section of a stadium. That's hilarious. Yeah that's usually how the top levels of stadiums go like if you're in the three hundred that's game there's not really seven hundred. There's like three or four. Maybe the three hundred. I'll give you the seventh floor please. And that barrier you know just like creates more like. I'm i wanna get away with something because i'm like sorta like they can't see down there six hundred level you end up pissing off the edge of the seven hundred thousand six hundred level though those hoity toity motherfuckers have no but noculars with snowball greg when The brow family went to the past game and for some reason there was like two sets of tickets. One was down in the hundred level. Which is where everybody's up two other tickets that are up in the three hundreds of men you took those remember and it was a snow game and literally every time somebody stood up to walk out of the section liri the rest of the section pelted them with snowballs. Yep including like a seven year old kid felt a little rough. There was a story about that too in philly in nineteen eighty nine a game against the cowboys they were all. It was snowing there all pissed drunk and they were like they had to like take the players off the field because they were throwing like ice snowballs onto the field and they ended up the nfl band beers from their stadium for two games after that incident. Goodness angry i you with agent anybody show up to the game and i haven't done like game back having three games later. Oh god yes. That's the environment they're going into here. Right yeah and with a brand new stadium and like you said is kind of underperforming because this is this is year three of their four year. String of a nfc champions chips gains right. And i was just didn't start off. Well the the first. I thought they were misspeaking but they were talking about how. The first points of the season for either team was the field goal. The new england kicked in the first quarter of this game. Gone like four and a half quarters without grant any points in. The eagles didn't score until the second quarter so they didn't score until six quarter of the nfl season which tough look but in a different era is what it is obviously ryan. This team was very decisive character. I would say donovan mcnabb. Every time you read. I think well For philadelphia fans. Is that right word. Decision making or vice divisive divisive. Yes we can go back. But i think they hate it from the gecko. They didn't like when they draft him. I didn't get booed when he got drafted. I don't remember yup ricky williams ricky williams and i watched the video that too and just seeing a grown man who flew to the draft. An nfl draft got dressed up in shoulder pads painted his face green and then started yelling at the stage when they didn't draft the player he wanted. Imagine like imagine what his wife thinks are just like anybody like his friends. Like how you not embarrassed to do that. I love the fact that you think that dude is married right. He's probably married to the game. Sure the fuck is ball is life but even this season like the the wikipedia was talking about how they were calls early in the season to replace mcnabb with backup. Feely touchy feely. Y- mcnabb would find his rhythm. Enjoy a great season I think great might be overstated through for thirty two hundred yards sixteen touchdowns levin interceptions. But i don't know if you can put that on him because this receiving crew is one of the worst. I've seen like since we started doing this. Podcast like there's usually at least a name that like okay. Yeah that's the number one guy in this. But i'm gonna i'm gonna give you some names. You tell me. Who was the leading receiver in terms of yards ready freddie freddie mitchell james thrash todd pinkston duce staley the worst but those those top four wide receivers your number one guy who's number one guy that use freddie mitchell james thrash. Todd pinkston do staley already talking yards receiving yards. Yep mitchell was the number one guy. I feel like his fred ex member. 'cause had the third most yards receiving on. This team was deuce deuce was number. Four use the fourth leading receiver as a running back with three hundred. Eighty two yards in two touchdowns. Freddie mitchell didn't cross five hundred four hundred ninety eight paint. Ston todd pinkston. Was your number one wide receiver on this eagles team. With five hundred and seventy five yards and two touchdowns catches. It's such a beta name to pinxton. Be more of a bro. So i had some It it it did For some reason spark something in me for nicknames k. because as soon as i heard pinkston all i could think was todd to in the pinkston and so i put together a couple more James dilford's take out the thrash. James thrash metal would be good too but that's easy too on the nose. The patriots had Tyrone paddling pool or tyrone deep into the pool. Whichever one you want to do at the end of the pool yeah and then also. Brian konya west brook. Which i kinda liked dan copp and a feel. Oh i got one. That's even worse all right. Listen todd simpson. Real name pinkston okay. That's like that Simpson i liked that. A lot. steve. Because it is a cock name to man. Yeah but speaking of cox their way one more okay. Adrian crispy clem. I was a stretch stretch. Richard seymour butts. Simpson's shout out there. Oh yeah we'll tell it to steve when he gets going to like that you know where the fuck did he go even see. We've but yes. Speaking of betas the rushing attack on the scene was not grading. How the by the way. The eagles finished twelve and four and made it to the nfc championship game with like not much going on. They didn't have a thousand yard rusher day. did they barely had a five hundred yard receiver. They really have thousand yards receiving in general and still in twelve four with this team. Don mcnabb andy really good. I mean he wins. That ended a great coach. Manila these defense right dawkins. The defense was led by troy. Vincent three picks Koi simon had seven and a half sacks as defensive tackle which is pretty impressive. He was a maserati great. Second this game. Two and at linebacker leading tackler was marked similar. Oh so i mean names. I've heard of but not like shop in the pantheon what i mean. What about dachshunds this dawkins team right. See on the same. I don't think he was. He was injured in this game. I believe yeah. Oh that's right. Yeah they had. They had a bunch of injuries coming into this and had a bunch of injuries leaving it to. Yeah they were in there at one point in the fourth. Quarter their backup defensive. Interior linemen was down on the ground ahead to get carded off so there was just like nobody left on defense. Yeah so mcnabb was a pro. Bowler troy vincent was a pro bowler corey. Simon maybe dawkins isn't on this He's on aid and make the pro bowl. Yeah think. I think you'd probably seven games seven games this year. Yeah i think the the defense was decent on this team. A but it was kind of the the combined rushing attack is. I think what happened was staley. Sat out at the beginning of the season and Yeah he had a preseason hold out and so they kind of turned into a running back by committee that you would see the patriots do with these. These are some names. You got Brian westbrook corey buckhalter. Do neely mcnabb too. Yeah yeah so. There was seven. There were the seventh rank. Defense points but twenty nine yards and eleven th ranked offense in points but eighteenth and yard said you know what that might have something to do with coaching. Yeah the more you think about it. If if there's a big disparity between your yards in your points. I think that's that's probably been executing once you get in the red zone. Joshing brian westbrook. To right young young. Ish yeah. I don't know how his two thousand this is rookie year. Really i watch highlights and they say because west pretty bad fumble on a punt return on this game and we liked this guy. But here's a fumble. Any real quick though because i think he at this point is probably one of the top coaches in the league right for sure. I mean he finally was i. Will i think that a lot of people seem to think that's going to get him over. The edge in terms of being in the hall of fame does like the one thing holding in beck So in terms of playing the patriots though they really had his number while he was on the chiefs he never be ballot. Check or belgium patriots. Anyway while he was on the chiefs he was owen. Four in his four tries with the eagles this went obviously then the super bowl and their couple of others with tunnel record. But since he's been on the chiefs he's up. He's three and three against ballot. Check as a member of the chiefs seven three. Yeah but much better lately than he has been but how many of those have been like the the most ratings. Obviously you know twenty twenty. One was actually just in general terms. He's he's always been like a pretty excellent coach. Ray two thousand through two thousand four of five straight years yet. Eleven plus wins with the eagles. And then two thousand fifteen through current. He's he just had five straight seasons of ten or more wins. How did that separation happen. Then how is like jeff hanging out here mediocrity and just full blown by an andy rigas cut from the eagles. What the fuck legal. How did that happen. How did they let this guy go. And that's a good question. I don't think it's because he couldn't deliver the super bowl. Maybe you see that with a lot of teams who can't get over complex. I mean think of money schottenheimer. He got fired when he went eleven. And five or something twelve and like after twelve and four eleven and five season. Because his whole thing was he could win the playoffs. I think it was maybe after. Oh six when the patriots beat him when they should have them with. The marla macree got trip by troy brown That game and i think after that like marty schottenheimer one all games he ever in at least in the regular season schottenheimer wasn't great right so he the last few years in philly he wasn't great he was eight and then foreign twelve and then he went to kansas city. So there's like a six or seven years here where he's got. I mean he's not a foreign twelve is his worst season as coach. But there's a couple like the six and ten in their aid. Couple eight eight nine six but having said that even though the patriots had success against him if you think about their worse losses have been to like an andy reid. Chief team like in two thousand fourteen. That game where What's his name came out and said tom. Brady's not good anymore or this patient team is not good anymore. Yeah dilfer right. And he came out and said that about the patriots because what had just happened but the shit kicked him by the kansas city chiefs on monday night their ship pushed in right and two thousand. Seventeen week one. Your shit look moves at throw no training day. have steve. also. Sorry to interrupt steve. We more nickname that when you left we thought you might like wait on me. Richard seymour butts. I knew you'd like the simpsons right. Yeah this is simpson. Yeah odd odd. Simpson's in there telling that i'm glad you interrupted for those perfect time for it very important. You're up in sorry the other like big loss. Recently the pages of suffered was the opening week of two thousand seventeen where memory rookie kareem hunt fumbled. His first carry pitch recovered. And it looks like it's going to be a shit show. Look i'm not here to relive the memories more than having to watch the game you know. Tough luck steve. Andy reid is good. Eagles are done for letting him go and yet to what happened in two thousand three week to was the score. We should probably say house for here. Was the final score. Steve Thirty one ten ten. Your new england patriots. At some point it was like ten to seven even been seven three eagles at one point but then they just kept turning the ball over and we scored a million touchdowns to four in. I think they had they had like five total turnovers lobby. Six six total turnovers. I mean i don't think it was his lopsided score though right now is pretty lopsided. The booby lot of a lot of booing. I mean it's the turnovers right. I think that was the game They couldn't get anything going about affiliate more first downs. Yardage is pretty similar three nine to sixty eight third down conversions or about the same Turnovers right six turnovers zero yahweh super-efficient red zone like every turnover was touchdown aren't kicking field. Goals they were ballot check football. Maybe they turned those six turnovers into four touchdowns. I believe. I think three or four touchdowns were directly off of Turnovers one of them being bruschi. Pick six yeah the. Why did i feel. I feel like every game. Now he's like a tedy bruschi touchdown toss to once. Now it's like what the fuck. I don't remember any of these but he's done. Yeah you watch the game. You can see pepper. Johnson so hype he was all about and the commentators are like. Are they saying boo or brew lot boob out for the eagles and they words a simpsons episode. We should work in more simpsons references. They apparently were about to a heyday. Simpson's too that is. I've been watching over again to of course you have fucking eat my salad e watch the simpsons episode on lunch every day so from work from home. You read a thrilling life. That is the most difficult steep thing like ragging about eating a salad in washington since the salads huge headed put a fucking million things there delicious not even healthy. If they're like that dude's they're delicious though it might be four cookies instead. That's what i d. I four cookies. And watch fracking patriot highlights. That's my lunch cool. He's cool. I think you hit a nerve. I have a tall glass of ice water. And i read books stay hydrated original new yorker magazine speaking hydrated body parts. We can go into how much you hate the commentators because there was a line. That was so bad i rewind it and watched it again which one was out. They had a two arm. Cotinine on the sideline great name by the way looking like a snack. That joke about him being on the cover deke. Magazine recently like And then they come back to the booth. And after i forget who it was ago said yeah they were showing your feet and then they went onto the play so his feet were on the cover up. What now definitely didn't land either because it was silence after it was so ridiculous and burying their the that. I don't know like a good thing about him is his feet. That's what i i mean. The only thing i can think of is like you're a model my hand model right right but then you would say like hand foot foot model except for foot fetish. Maybe maybe the world was just more naive plays back. It didn't have foot fetish. Phil sins loves it when he does. That's ryan games. Meet up afterwards. Search for aol keyword foot fetish but Had some good ones at the brew- instead of bo. And they add some mrs with the feet thing. Well they did have something that i'm going to claim as vindication because it's not just me that hates the eagles are the commentators break. Showed us up here in the blue blooms boots you don't and then and then the cameras on you and they intensified so i felt pretty good about. They shouldn't do me here though. Many interceptions loved the all. Right phil simms. So it's not just me that hits commentators. It's the entire city of philadelphia. So i don't know if i feel vindicated by that. Because they seem to hit everybody their own team when they went in food. Santa handy but i feel a kinship to the city of philadelphia. You would fit in there. I think i would. I think i was born the wrong area. The country it's very. It's very like the. I don't know where i fall on that. As far as like one end of the spectrum right is complete apathy an la sports town. Where it's you no one gives a shit and they're not actually like they don't care about the sport and then there's the other end where it's like philadelphia where they're like destructive in how serious they take it. Yeah and i think. I don't know what do you think the pats fault not. Nearly there towards the philadelphia and if things i think so too but recent years feels a bit apathetic. I gotta admit well. I think that's because we're spoilt I it's hard to be destructive in your phantom when you win the super bowl every year right right right at six rolls last twenty years. And if we're not win the super bowl winning the world series or stanley cup for the nba championships. Because even before all this happened like red sox nation was considered as bad. Yeah yeah and he talked about the media shitting on people. I think david price would look would like to have a word exactly. It's just a bunch of big needs. Brian tom brady at the end there. Like all the only. Because i actually heard something today about how. When does the tampa bay media start asking if he's coming back next year because he also i mean we're already half or a quarter of the way through the season and You know is he coming back. This is about the time that new england media would would start ethnic question for the past. What ten years. And i think it's only a certain voices amplified louder than others. I don't think a lot of people feel that way. But it's also gets let out when you win a ton so there's no build up like you do have in like this time right and even getting teased and buffalo. Probably the prime example for that going super bowls losing and then being bad for so long. I think buffalo is where i think is the ideal place of like fandom because they are super passionate they know what's going on but they never crossed that line of what is what is over the top like it's to know like i go to buffalo fan game and everyone shits on me because i'm a pats fan and they all like chirp at you but you don't have to worry about getting in a fight. Yeah there's still in party mode. Yeah there's still like having a good time. They're like self aware they like. They're just there to chirp you know and have a good ship but i think philly crosses that line may be through certain to go. Yeah yeah. I've never been to philly or baltimore because for that same reason. Yeah in baltimore. Free plus the oils are fine. But yeah i mean. I've been to bills game and nobody's purposely thrown up on me this if i'm just afraid of alvar every time you throw me out. Oh you know what you're doing. Right bro goto. I hope he knew the guy was an off duty cop to oh down making so much like more balls. Get arrested this. I can't cover cop trauma to cover. This was in philly where the where the guys punch the punch. The horse to philly. Yeah nobody did like sundell. No no boy. English premier league soccer sunday castle. Have you seen that. Video of the guy is a fan like they're like not a riot. But there's like a little kerfuffle after the game they send in the cops english and this dude legitimately squares up a horse. And what are you gonna do. What are you gonna do. And just thumps it like. He was like boxing. A horse. not rant and punch a sucker punch. Yeah just like one of the funniest thing ever seen. We may have to add that to the it. Got a meeting offie. Yeah the portion and give a shit fucking like sixty five year old overweight english student trunk probably no-shirt on sunburn definitely saw. Yeah oh god. I wanna get a quick run through how this how. This game unfolded then. That's basically i was going to do is trying to figure out a way to to segue into it but yes not much really happened in the beginning because both teams are still. I think struggling. Generally the patriots did manage to kick a field goal. Now is about it. But i mean they drove Inside the ten yard line and settle for field goal Sorry the second quarter. The eagles would actually put together their only real drive of the of the game. And it was staley touchdown run. Which was i believe. One of their three third out conversions. Only game of yes was a touchdown. Run on third and goal at a fourteen tries so not great so new england actually gets the ball back and response drives all the way down and then ken walter muffs. The holt bounces off his. Noggin goes backwards patients. That was probably the low point of this game for the pets. Wasn't that the was long snapper. It looked like it was the issue. The snap was high but it still went right through. Can walters hands had already had a twenty six yard punt in the first quarter when the pages were like doing well field position and basically just like change the whole field position like battle and then he loves that go through his hands off his face and the eagles recover always at midfield at that point because i was kind of a longish feel guard anyway. but not to be outdone on the very next play and this this highlights on the website. Because it's fantastic mcnabb. Somehow just straight up drops a football. He likes soap in the shower. Like pulled his hand. Hand up to to throw it in. The ball doesn't come with them and just drop on the ground and Patients recover this is limited. I play the muffed. Drop the cell. That's right and he didn't rule number one and he kind of looked like he made a bit of a business cam. Newton style cam. Newton decision not jumping on football. So new england covers This is where the page actually get. Start to get moving Dr outfield and brady finds four eighty four. His first touchdown am and noon gets once they get the ball back. They don't go anywhere and they have to punt it but then this is where another turnover happens where What's name rookie brian. Kinda westbrook must punts as recovered by bethel johnson bethel who yeah rookie. Rookie bethel johnson. Who i forgotten about. But he actually like had himself a game this game. He actually had a pretty decent career. I remember like not like amazing but not irritable. Here's a second round draft pick. Those came fast. Why should he had two catches for twenty one yards. Longest seventeen will leave that out. He's also like him in. charles johnson. Remember you might be thinking of steve. charles jackson. No now wants another team and like klay. Talk johnson yeah. He played for the ravens afterwards. I wanted to say no other teams to check. He played three years of new england. Minnesota okay started more than five game. Which is beth. Jackson is a presbyterian church in jackson mississippi. Interesting look for bethel johnson. John dude johnson's jackson's fuck in its. I always get those guys confused. Because it's all the same shit. What you with me though. Like tall skinny guy. That really couldn't do much chad jackson. Charles karaj full johnson. They're all just a generic names. It's all the same player to me. Now it's like one of those made you brownell remember that's not generic biblical johnson. I believe jackson because he was like he was thinking fast and only had so he was returning kicks to. Because i think you were trying to open in this game which made me write down his name and think oh fuck bethel johnson and then like he actually does stuff. What else. Things was recovering. This muff punt that we're talking about the patriots up like inside the twenty yard line. Can i do a the name on here. Okay give me a a little town of bethlehem johnson. That's a little too much notice. All right those lert over and over again. Chris brown's got delivered. These highlights vs the names are too long to take too long to come out. You know did some of his name's ver- like like a fifteen seconds song. That's true too many of those though you know my point. We've only got the bethel jazz one. Yeah so after this muff punt the bell. John's recovers new england-based of the philly. Fifteen and i think it was like first and second play brady finds for off that hard play action that he does that for some reason working really well even though they weren't running the ball because this is definitely like antoine smith. Run out of gas right. yeah. I don't think i saw him actually find a hole in the in the defensive line to actually run through just like puts his head down to like runs into the line not looking where he's going just like trying to bash out a few yards really like we all realize this earlier. But i thought corey dillon. Who was on this team. And he comes a year later. Yeah which is actually ball with him. Just foundering back there and knowing they're not going to put somebody in really good 'cause then we'll corey dillon. And kevin faulk was the main running asking him. He had the most snaps. I think he's started as the as the running back like to open the game but in for like two thousand three. That's a different like no one had like in there all the time you know right. That's the thing from back. Yeah and i think kevin faulk was the lead rusher back in like nine or two thousand any finished with like six seven hundred dollars. It wasn't like great at it. You know because he's like you said it's too small run between the tackles but in this game let's see pages leading rushers. Antoine smith twelve carries twenty five yards. Yeah with a longest of nine more. So averaging about two yards a carry and kim fox seven carries twenty three yards a great but better but come fog also had four catches for fifty nine yards. Nazi that's right. He played really well. It didn't really matter. I mean it was slanted brady spreading it out. Do you think it's that he's too small. The run between the tackles. I always thought it was like he wasn't. He relied a lot on like change direction. Like change of pace whereas like a traditional running back is like put your foot in the ground and just like dr kevin faulk was always like i'll catch it and then like joop quit you know. It's he always seemed better fitted for receiving back because of that or like a drop drop play running. They say he's really good out in in space. But like yeah. Yeah i don't think you just like a savvy you like shifty change of pace direction guy have hot take for you you know. This is the best receiving back. Had you can shame during kevin fall. James white at running in between the tackles dreams white now someone better on a team. Rex burkhead yeah. He's actually legit getting through. Those is a little different is a little thicker. And he's not quite as good receiving as some of those other guys but he's definitely a good receiver and get him in space and he's pretty shifty toe. So that's the thing i think. Rex burkhead is a better runner than the patriots Receiving running backs an better receiver than they're like run. I running backs. Like he's a better. I see no. He's a better receiver than like sony. Fevers but he's he's a better runner like between the tackles. Then james white fits in that that little bit and let. But i don't think that's the thing you never know is good at known as either a blitz pickup. 'cause we always rate running backs by how they how they run or how they catch. But that's a huge part of especially with like a bell check offenses. How can pick up blitzes. And that's something that like unless you you're studying game film you're not gonna pick up on every like good play. You know right absolutely absolutely. And i think that's why the like a page a lot of heat for drafting sony. Michelle over nick chubb but yes i think one of the knocks on nick chubb is that he's not great at pass protection and blitz pick up in that sort of stuff so i mean that and that to the atlanta super bowl the running back missing submarine is not gonna stop him now. He's like well look good job. That wouldn't happen in a fair point. I mean the the drop off between one running back to the other is probably less than missing critical block and getting a soccer at turnover in a big spot. You know especially in today's nfl to where it's mostly pass driven like at this point. It feels like most offenses are using the past the setup the run instead of what it used to these the other way round and point so There was no setting up. Anything in this game. the patriots didn't do on the ground like we talked about fifty totally rushing something. Garbage like that Tom brady thirty rush on the patriots with seven yards in this game i on six attempts good for him but did do a couple of like. I feel like they've been doing it. This season a little bit of last season. Where even like second and five. They're doing the brady like goose. The senator qb sneaks just to get in third and short like third and one third and two just to get those like free yards. Which i'm surprised you don't see more of because it's almost paddock. Really but yeah so. Six carries seven. You just like saying goose idea. I've noticed every time you sit. You're like goodness degrees. Nice faxing ghost yeah So yeah that's all we have in the first half of this game so can have At what's the score. Seventeen seven seventeen. Seven and a boo birds are out in force like a lot and for perspective. Therefore point favorites. Come into this game. The eagles actually. Yeah i mean. The patriots got their doors blown off week. One eagles off the team hates their coach. And yada yada yada tom jackson. The eagles were nfc championship when we didn't even make the plus right right so and there's like a whole lot of turnover too. Yeah yeah so. It makes us the Ten washington played really good in this game. Yeah i think the defense is a whole did like the there was a lot of blitzing happening and it seemed like every blitz got home The patriots sacked mcnabb. It was eight times. I saw eight times for forty three yards and even when he was hitting sack he was getting a helmet in the chest. Pretty much every damage. Japan how bruschi guidance vicks Similar to that of rams super bowl. Yet i'm still has he's throwing it was I think fraser able on both of them because there was also another variable. Actually if i can bring this up because there was An interception before that where. Here's a name for you. let me find it Continue talking while i find this game. So don mcnabb has he sacked eight times. He throws two picks and how many fumbles i think it too but he recovered one of a rough day at the office. In your home fans. He goes eighteen of forty six for one hundred eighty six yards. He threw the ball fifty. Times in any breakthrough hundred. Oh yeah yeah. It was like thirty percent completion. Going no touchdowns. He had a rough day at the office. So key boise this. Yes so this is the interception that he threw to eric. Morris i believe eric with our i never heard of them but it looks bad and is like a can of corn. He threw it deepen. The received didn't actually go deep But if you watched the play. I'm gonna i'm gonna key you into mike vrabel on the replay here. Who is right here and watch how he gets blocked. The offensive line is not my problem. I just watch this guard like this is so this is on the pages dynasty website the title of the gif which was it is or is it The mcnabb takes a shot from in his easily. Picked off by eric morris. Eric's drive that guy. Tell people yeah. I got interception with the pitches. Nine people ring. Eric never heard you now. We can say hey go on site. We have a gift you show all your friends. He is on here somewhere. he's not. Oh you're hitting them up now. Okay eric i'm just trying to. I must spill right. I see eric morris. i've never heard of them. Have you now played for three years. And then this is his last season of his career. Only ever start. You started ten games in two thousand and one in grand. It is yes. He's got have a super bowl ring though right you would expect so. Yeah i guess so. Yeah that's my seem. We're just finding new superheroes we don't even know about eric. Marcus morris with the canaccord exception. Just embodying the next man up philosophy of our team. Yeah i think somebody went down with an injury which is why he doesn't play because actually hit on a couple of draft picks this year right. Yea sante samuel talk about our draft. 'cause you guys didn't get to that right in our really gonna talk about a week one. Yeah because this draft stacked full of town talked me all right so First round thirteenth pick tie. Warren at texas am nice second round they picked. Eugene wilson. the I guess he was a cornerback in college but and a plane safety yup bethel johnson. Also in the second round. Fourth-round dan klecko temple. Asante samuel a fucking steel in the fourth round. Damn dan copen. Fifth round is another side. Telly banta cain. In the seventh round up we did talk about one of the sixth round draft. Pick yes kingsbury. We did talk about him. Lastly is it. That is at their entire fixers. Any spencer need in the seventh and eighth and killing seven. That didn't make the roster with the rest of. That's a great draft. Great draft all those guys contributed meaningfully pro suppo ballers samuel in copen until can had at least a year with double digit sacks. Yeah he led the team in saxon. Six ish takes seventh-round wrappings fan. I'm very sad story about. Kelly giving them the credit card. I think you should tell it again. I feel like i've heard it in passing. This is george six or seven years ago. It was actually is probably closer to ten Kelly i started dating my wife And we were. We went to the some kid in maine. So i went to. Unh some kidman used to throw this big party every year. And he had this big mansion ball blah and Tally we banta. Cain ended up showing at the showing up at the party. With like a fucking ridiculous lamborghini. It was fucking sweet. But we're all we're all like college. Kids i love the pats enrolling over guys need to gains the game to nurse if i can talk to him. But we're on the dance floor and kelly's usually the patriots and she goes up behind him and goes swipes between his butt cheeks. She's like gave him. The credit card came to. I don't know where it came from. Or why she did it but it was awesome and then And then we got married. So has she ever given you the credit card or to save that for famous patriots. That's the only time. I've seen her do it to maybe guy in sounds like you're a little of that. I'm not jealous at all. I thought it was awesome. Can credit card you if you want. I may just the fact that credit card in the fucking star the leading sacker on the new england patriots at a house party in maine goddamn youtuber. May for each other really. Yeah yeah we get a lot of shit for the shit you give her but like she's yeah that's kelly comes downstairs. Moms listening to the podcast looks. Everything goes kelly. I'm learning a lot about you. Yeah kristie it'd be awkward zero. Isn't it you guys come back to visit. Mom yelled at me the other day when i called her. Why for the when we were talking about pictures of our willies. Remember that one. I saw so i'd mom would like to take this moment to say sorry. I apologize no more. Willie talk on the on the yeah directly after the credit cards. Nothing to do with we built actually moved to talk now. Boy well the The cam newton erotica book review will come out by this point. So y- you'll have stuff to apologize. Yeah is there any way. We can like blocker from listening to that. I could probably address or something that can shit speaking of credit cards though. Wanna plop down your best and worse you want to swipe that best right up your crack. Oh all right yeah Do you guys want to go. I got a couple of things to touch on -sarily game related so you guys can take your pick. Go ahead steve. I had a setup. This weekend where i had two. Tv's going all right. I watched the patriots game and red zone and then after the patriots game i put on old patriots games with red zone on it in the red zone game. That was like two games or honor at that point and one of them was the titans are one of them was. The box sounds watching able coaching and bringing while watching this game of reunion playing. It was crazy. That sounds like this adds pretty awesome. Yeah crossing generation the mike god and quality between the two broadcasts see you. Don't really notice them right next to each other. Yeah this was like you can definitely tell that some of these games were recorded on vhs. Yeah have been like could digitize from the actual tape because they have that alexis wiggles every once in a while with his back he sees them like the letters and stuff on the bottom of the numbers in the bottom corner where it says still saying twelve o'clock midnight because the guy hasn't set the time. Vcr yeah my worst. I don't know there is a fifty seven yard. field goal. hit by greenacres ritchie hidden washed. Had another like ten yards in it. Oh yeah yeah nothing. Hit the netting halfway up and we talked about are like mess up on the holder snap operation in may be a good one for you. But i feel like i remember some time about the long snapping being huge issue. This whole season issue ones as in like the pressure to perform was too much in the maybe some new got her was some whole back story. About how long snapping. The super bowl was like all sorts of messed up. I remember that maybe a negative in this game. I don't know if that was the holder. No you have punter but it might be snapper. I wonder how many bad snaps you're gonna see this year. And i think we may to find that out and do a deep dive is a season. 'cause i remember hearing about that. Where like one of the issues. The patriots was there long snapper. Who was having confidence issues. And it was like At catcher who couldn't throw it back to the pitcher or whatever. It is. John john lester couldn't throw to first base. Oh there was that too. Yeah wasn't there Scott had a burden was it him. It was some red sox catcher who just couldn't throw the ball back to the pitcher rewatch that no. That sounds familiar. So we'll find out what about you greg. Besse worse all right so four my worst. I'm going to start out with the eagles offense. They had a grand total of sixteen drives in this game and fucking ten points punt pint. Touchdown fumbled punt punt punt fumbled punt punt punt field goal interception interception fumble and of game close and strive. I sounds like it's closer than it. Was you listen to that. Dr chart no good dude. Lisa's a pick six you now. 'cause that's riske's yeah yeah. They finished the game with two hundred. Sixty eight yards total. which If you break it down by dr they had like Just over sixteen yards per drive tough. Which if you're starting your own twenty doesn't get you into midfield not great. Yeah so four. My best ghana win it here. We'll go at tom. Brady offensively there was no in. That had like big stats jump out. There's no one over. One hundred yards receiving or or rushing but brady had a pretty decent statistical day. Thirty or forty four to fifty five three touchdowns no picks so he looks like he's back on track after that disaster last week. It looks like games where he knew he wanted to go to the ball like that. Completion percentage surprises me a little bit. That'd be way higher. Because like if i like everything he put. The ball is right where receiver needed. It and he was super accurate. Making great calls had the line play better. Because i think that has a lot to do with two. Once he gets still is like happy feet when he's getting rushed that's when it starts getting inaccurate to yeah. I mean it's still wasn't you. You think a two thousand three patriots and you think of like how dominant they were because games and all that stuff and what they finish like fourteen into whatever it is but yeah. This didn't quite look like they were in sync offensively. It was just a defense. You know getting eight sacks and getting pressure on mcnabb basically every play and yeah br but brady i think he hit ten different receivers so that kind of era where you know his favorite. Yeah love that quote. Yeah so it was like it was an efficient game but it wasn't like blown away i did have a play. That again is in the On the website. Brady completing a pass to Dale believe was his tenth wide receiver of the day. But this one was a bit by accident. But it's still fantastic like this was the kind of day they were having. Yeah that still goes for three tries to set a three rolling left and it gets kind of blown. Up is getting should do much. I don't think it was a screen. It was just one of those. Like design it rollouts craft boot screen graham and they blitz from the left side of the tana dudes coming and if you can get it out. I think he's i don't think so because usually the whole offensive line will run that way and like let their block through the the blitz just came from the other side and brayden. See it because you can watch other is actually going down the field looking for razz like open receivers production the wrong way and so the whole thing just didn't work out but it worked out. That's a great play from graham to go from blocking turnaround catching. He's on the all dynasty team. Do you guys see that list got released. I if i agree with him on their over like watson but this talk about kicker to discussion episode on that. Yeah i agree. Yeah we'll have to put our own since we know someone who had an influence in it so he can just rag him You know they're worst to i'm listening. Speaking of the drafts here. I mean the pat said that stacked ashraf the philadelphia eagles two dozen three draft. They had six draft picks and only two of them actually made the roster their first and second picks drome mcdougal and l. j. smith and they cut their third fourth sixth and seventh round picks in training camp and didn't make the roster. Can you imagine the uproar so they do move right there. Yeah they they cut for their six draft picks. They lose week one week two in blowout fashion after coming off. Nfc championship. but yeah so you could. The boo birds are kind of justified. How close is the nfc championship. Game with elliott close game. Where do they just by the bucks. I think it was a close game but they never really got rolling right. That's the rendezvous barber. Pick six game that find the score now. Did you do your best yet. Yeah my best was brave. I also i think. I wanna give it to a full team effort from the defense civic. Listen he's died. But i mean what they had eight sacks spread over seven seven players five four fumbles for which they four which the defence recovered. Jeez and then how he pets two picks they recovered for those five four symbols to lord and no one had more than one. So it's like everyone chipped into the game. This is lacking yeah. It was a great play. I think going off of that. My game will go to match. Chatham yes. I did highlight package early early on. He had a great play where he was the first patriots. Drive the yeah. The patriots got like In just inside the phillies out of the field but they ended up having to punt and the pope is actually really good. It hit like the one or two yard line bounce straight up and it was over towards the sideline matt chatham what out there and try and do anything just took into battered straight out of bounds. He's viable yeah. It was like a great heads up sort of played at you. You want your guys be making on special teams and so the eagles i drive star from their own two yard line. What's smarts they're trying to catch a bounces off your hands and goes in the end zone thinking that can definitely dismiss us out of bounds species a linebacker so the perfect heads up sort of play and then Right after brucie's pick six Philly actually started driving about midfield. This is towards the end the game in the fourth quarter late in the fourth Right before like official garbage time but garbage time would start when Mcnabb ruled out to his right and match. Adam like from the other side of his reign his ass down and put a one of the like textbook linebacker. Blindside hits like a calling fucked up. I think calling it a lawrence bit too strong but yeah he got good up. Dropped the ball head. Nabbed doesn't see looking downfield pumping and just not see chatham coming on the backside of those ones that make you neck hurt. Just one of those. Yeah so i think that was the last player that mcnabb then anthony pleasant scoops it up and tries to do the old troy brown lateral mcginnis. Who gets another like five yards out of mcginnis. He's not like fleet of foot. Worked is not antwan harris. Love the effort though. We're we're up to thirty one ten. Let's make sure we can look back crazy. Call my worse and this was not going to blame the referees. Even though it looked like it was there you will know it was. It was more bella check than anything but every time it was like third one bell check recall for measurement and so they bring out the chains and it was like a yard and half short. It wasn't even close but ballot check. Did it like four or five times in the first half like with it. A measurement on this is like it. It's not your you're like two yards away wet. I'm surprised it interesting now. Yeah but the game. Every time it called for measures in like a least like. Should i go for this sort of thing kind of. Yeah but i mean it's usually third down formosa but this game just took so long because it was a lot of like that sort of stuff happening the bunch of injuries they had to get the car out at one point like even the condensed version this game without commercials like two and a half hours long. That's you go to overtime. There was a blow out and it was still just like it took forever to watch this game. My best Was bill check trendsetter. I don't know if you call it what he was wearing but he was wearing what was like the button up shirt version of their color. Rush jerseys now. All blue with the red and white stripes across the shoulders. I didn't note this guy. I can't even picture it either here. I'll i'll show you the picture that i have. I can't picture. yeah so it. Is you know button up shirt. But designed off colo okay. Yeah actually. I think he looks nice. The patriots one but it's got like silver underneath the arms will strange that one looks fresh though they should saw that. Yeah well i mean you can buy it in jersey for now. You're right though. That looks exactly their uniforms. Now with blurt Stripe on the on the shoulders. He was doing it before it was cool. That's true and my best for the podcast. Couple couple of news items. We ranked on the spotify list. Spotify charts for football podcast. This time number. One fifty two on the charts in great britain so the one person in england probably our family baby. Let's shout out our cousins right now. What's up espn andy. We love you guys six listed. Thanks for the one. Listen to the game between the point of view to put us on that list. Paul listens does she know that my mom yelled at me. Well listen this week because that was last week and we're not on the list week so got grandma's not listen to this podcast greg keys And the other thing. I want to bring up since now's the time since you've actually gotten this far is since nobody could figure out how to actually leave us reviews. We're going to make it even easier. We have a phone number so you can text us. You can call and leave us a voicemail and we will listen to them. We will read them all and we will. If it's good we'll fucking read it off will read text messages on the podcast and we will actually play the audio of any voice so we get dangerous door to unlock with a number area code. Six oh three if you're if you're from other countries can put a one in front of that five zero five eight zero four three six three five zero five eight. Oh four three. And that is the patriots the hotline. So we've got a hotline. Now boys the three eight. Oh five five million inst- close people's names to i'm that with names. I'm jimmy soon as he told it to me safe zone workout to any like funny words like oh yeah see. That's i don't think. I was trying to find some funny words. How what eight. Hundred pats pod. Zeros not a is not a letter. But it's the way i remember it's five o. Five which is easier for member then. Eighty is troy brown four three. So it's it's troy brown shooting a a three point shot in basketball strip. Malo oh now greg. What paul is forty. Three i remember. He's number forty five no. Nobody's us troy brown frustration around three. Yeah like if troy brown got on the celtics and triple the announcer. You know in the stadium times out gets kicked out for three. Yeah it's god way tyler barry sanders. That was our old house phone number here on out. Which eight nine three. I love barry sanders. That's somebody else's phone number that they're not going to get slough. We're talking about phone numbers. That time. you got lost at redskins stadium. Greg yeah and i remember i. That's how i remembered it to the house. You didn't call the house on. Did you hear that drunk. No i called. You know. I call kelly kelly's number memorized so we go to the patriots redskins game and we get to the bottom of the whole walkway and goes left. My phone up there so he walks back and goes to get it. We made our friends park. Someone's like your brother dropped this and gives me his phone. He's looking for phone. Yeah and i was like greg smart enough to update law and see the phone. Let me just go back to where we tailgating and meet. My brother doesn't show up. And i'm like why standing for hours. I'm like just go home. Greg's useless he's what here greg is fucking what you did is you memorize. Your wife's number had the cabbie call her because you didn't have any money for the cab. Had her all the cabbie. So i couldn't. I enter my address from red stadium. I couldn't uber because they didn't have my phone. So i had to like hail a regular cab. But then i also didn't have any cash on me so i could and he didn't have a credit card. Obviously right obviously not have your wallet on he. He wouldn't accept a credit card. That's what it was. And so we we get there. And i had to call kelly from memory her phone number and then model the guys like private fucking ten workday which all things considered. I'm shocked. you knew my address. I three exactly. I blacked out enough. That i couldn't find my way to the parking lot but i remembered a phone number that i haven't physically dialed and probably ten years and an address that have gone to like maybe once a year. Jesus christ address east by cable and that's tied to like my address g mail dad the phone number. I have no explanation for. But i was like i couldn't call lauren's number at all so i took her name off my contacts and i just see your phone number because i'm like i'm going to do the same thing at some point talking like buck lars numbers. I should say greg's at some point. I need to figure this out so talking. Football thing to it was. I'm trying to think of well. There was a mike vrabel in there. Please don't mice brave doug. Ivanka actually kelly's phone number is six zero. Three five eight zero four three. Please let her know what big mistake making. Yeah yeah we should say if you leave us a voicemail or attack message let us know which brown you like the least in safe and by how much jesus so we're talking about big dummies. This is what we're talking about idiot savant shit where we get. I don't think remembering what ten numbers in a row is survived. It is blackout greg. I'm talking about the address your blackout drunk and you you forget how to get to the park. And that's true. I could know you your address. It out at address right. I can tell you. Oh that was his password to his fuck and comcast remembered that way. Actually you know what. I fucking i didn't even i remember. I was like the fucking i hop and in the city. I know where it was for. The i blacked out at that ihop before i remember shit. Little more sense brownie. I don i know what it is. I could give away your address right now. I on top of my head right now while all right get handout. Our personal information love it. Yeah six zero three five zero five eight hundred four three. We say we can't wait to hear from you. But i'm i'm interested to see if we get any feedback but that roy brown four three. That's right. That's how. I remember it when i first got it. So what's next week. The jets right. Yeah at home. The oh and two jets the winless jet so far visiting fox gillette stadium see how the patriots do see if they can put some stuff together here. Also quick update on ryan tannehill. Mvp mvp candidate. steve Do you have any comment. yeah still i. Just don't think he's that good covid. Pandemic is really simplified. Things them and have a good game plan. But someone's going to figure it out. Remember the the hottest offense in history until they met the patriots and then they kind of figured out their scheme was someone's gonna be able to that. It's really more derrick henry than ryan tannehill ryan tannehill just benefiting off of derrick. Henry is clearly the best player in that offense. You can't say ryan tannehill is their best player Okay josh allen. Josh allen wa. I think he's improved. He's he's always had that running game his his his game and he still has that for a bit. I think he makes bad decisions. When he carries a ball. He takes a lot more punishment. Hits than you really should. But he's a big boy but eventually is going to catch up to allah donovan mcnabb and some of the players and steve mcnair. That we're seeing in the season and his his really roller coasters decision. Making is suspect. And he's either really good or really bad. There's really no inbetween steady hand. Where like ryan. Taylor actually kinda shines in that as like he's pretty reliable that is ceiling breeze going to give you that. Josh allen is a fucking crap shoot play eventually. That's going to catch up to them. Okay i'll of account counter argument. Both those quarterbacks are in the top ten for best odds to win. Mvp this year. Currently got decent quarterbacks. I'm just not sold more. They suck i believe is the turns e. You don't ever change the. They're saying they're not good. Yeah they're in like the ninety nine and a half percent. Dial of nfl player. When i'm matched up fantasy i'm all right. I'm feeling good. Okay and on that note. This has been the pages dynasty podcasts. One more i got one more. God interesting interesting fact This is your question about how the eagles ended their last year. They lost to the Buccaneers who up to that point had been one and twenty two in games played under four and then they lost twenty seven to ten home but something to look forward to is this year's because it is out of control. There's some great stuff that happens both with the patriots and in the nfc like this is. This is just an exciting year so this is a great or to that but first things first next week. New york jets at home maybe her member donahue fucking know. We'll find out next week. Nobody patriots shits their pants like the new york. Jets adam gates version. All right. see you next week. Gentlemen on the patriots dicey podcast.

eagles patriots Todd pinkston andy new england philadelphia nfc greg freddie mitchell mcnabb steve Richard seymour butts nfl johnson bethel johnson wilson christine brown tom brady chiefs domi
John Clayton Breaks Down The Big Game As Well As Other NFL Stories Around The League

The Sean Salisbury Show

14:40 min | 2 months ago

John Clayton Breaks Down The Big Game As Well As Other NFL Stories Around The League

"Mostly i in. The sean salisbury show continues sportstalk seven ninety shot south ratio here signed to play a little bit of four downs before we do a couple of questions. We welcome welcome in our guy to professor. John clayton longtime partner. Johnny welcome in. I saw you having trouble with this cable stuff. And are you going to get that digital antenna. The ship to watch the game. I mean my problem is it's like the the intent is going to be the necessary thing because you know channel seven here which is a cbs affiliate Unconscious communication has been wiped out by directtv and we went through like the nbc affiliate for three and a half weeks. And so at some point here. This morning I've had enough people offer to come over and help me with the antenna. 'cause my big thing is i don't know how to install the antenna so it's like okay. We can get the antenna but it's like how. Am i going to install it so i'm hoping we get this thing resolved and maybe within the next hour awesome so you are going to get again dude. You've been covering super bowls. Like eighty fifth. Forty of seems janis. It's four forty four of them. Ryan schooling you for all those years to sean. Let's not go overboard now. Mike guy but let's not go overboard. I give a lot of credit but whoa slowed. I mean when you compare like these hot take shows. John clayton sean salisbury like brady and rice us to and then the conversation you can get to the rest of the pta is and you know i takes but john clay the it's brady brady and rice who it is with clayton south break. That's that's what this is. John speaking of which we were having conversation. Who's the best football player ever. Not just their position. Best player in my thing. I still go back to jim. Brown of the cleveland browns because You know growing up in pittsburgh watching him. Run watching how dominant. He was watching. How far ahead of the game that he was. You know what the greatest lacrosse player maybe ever. And then of course he was so good running the football and he left the game. Probably with about three or four years to play my way of thinking. Jim brown was the best football player. I've ever seen barry sanders. We left him out a little bit. But i i still considering how he's got the i mean. We didn't say athlete in some people mistake to you didn't jim brown i had we had. I hadn't third about the two. Were jerry rice. Second for me and tom brady because it just as far as everything that goes into being a football player other than being able to run the fasten. Jump the highest. Brady's achieved i. I just don't see how not just best at his position. I think brady's the best football player of all time. And i think. I got a major argument as you do for brown and ask people do for jerry rice but i think the top two to me and another thing is the longevity and jim brown walked away early like barry. Sanders did in their careers. Johnny carson wentz mentally and emotionally tough enough to stay in philly i. I don't think so. I think that You know he wants out and e even though he hasn't hasn't asked for a trade yet. And i think that You know he needs to be with somebody. They can help resurrect his career. And that's why. I think indianapolis might be the best spot for him now again. I don't know if the eagles who caps to be one hundred eighty five million in her Eighty what sixty five million over the cap right now can be able to handle taking the hit on the dead money for the cap and be able to get that all incorporated but to me. I think that You know he wants. He's got issues right now with the organization. They're going to be a bad football team and so i think because again they're going to lose somebody players because of all the transition the dead cap money and everything and to get under the cap i think they think they need to trade him and i think he probably will be traded. You have a problem. I i do to. John did the phillies a tough town. If you're not successful it just is. It's it's very difficult on their players as you. Well know being a guy who was in pittsburgh as well. Do you subscribe to the jerry. Jeudy part of recruiting players dog. Your own quarterback by saying i'd like to sean wa basically i paraphrase. How he's waiting onto shawn watson decision. Great he'd be in denver law drew lock on your roster little inappropriate and disrespectful to the current quarterback correct. Oh yeah no doubt about it because again. It's like if like if you're drew lock. I mean it's no different than what was going on with mitch trubisky because everybody was rightfully down on mitch. Trubisky is that they bring in. Nick foles okay. It's not a big name to be able to bring in. Nick foles certainly didn't work out in chicago but Know that if you're drew lock and you you start to talk about the idea of bringing in a carson wentz. Then you're really not helping the quarterback out because you know all of a sudden he knows. Okay i'm under the gun right now and it might not end up Getting through the season as a starter. But don't you also have a problem with jerry. Jeudy talking about the shawn watson and saying yeah you know not just saying watson's great to talk about how great to have him in denver. Isn't that kind of disrespectful to a teammate. That's already under contract. I mean if you're going to recruit the guy maybe you could do it in a little more political when i say politically correct like respect the guy in the building if drew lock it come out and said yeah i would rather have joe henry ruggs in oakland jerry. Jeudy i mean. Wouldn't that be disrespectful. Jerry jeudy i don't subscribe to the to the recruiting a guy out loud when another guy at the same positions on your roster. Yeah i would agree with that because again. It's like this is your quarterback and there's still a great chance because john elway was the one who drafted him that Somehow some way he's gonna stay. You're starting quarterback and if all of a sudden you're trying to get somebody else in there then It just shows as you're going to be a strain into relationship. So no i think jerry jeudy if that's the case like don't say that stuff it's like Stay away from that. Sure i mean the shawn. Watson is one of the six best quarterbacks in this league and he's better and we'll be better than drew lock but again if you're with drew lock next year which is still a great possibility. You can't do that and try to. At least the frame him. Yeah i'm with you. It's just like we all know watson's better recruitment private. Just don't disrespect your teammate. Just like i would hope he wouldn't do jerry jeudy the same way way phones. The stakes are enormous. Time to play. Four downs with sean salisbury. And the professor john clayton first down. What is the most important position group in this super bowl. Matchup i mean really. Most important is going to be the play. The quarterback for the tampa bay buccaneers obviously obviously quarterbacks. The most important because you've got You know the goat. And maybe the new goat in patrick mahomes but the most important right now is going to be the play of the cornerbacks in tampa bay because carlton davis is their best cornerback. He's a four or five to guy and he's going to be matching up against Tyreek hill and into game back in week twelve He was beaten twelve times for over one hundred eighty yards and for he'll he'll ended up having a total of thirteen catches for two hundred sixty nine yards and three touchdowns and so really. It's going to be the quarterback which is maybe the weakest unit on the defense and made the weakest unit on tampa bay to be able to perform somewhat better because muhammad does throwing for over four hundred and sixty yards. Yeah and we're talking and that's a good point john. we're not. This was outside the quarterback. Exactly right you got corners. I'm gonna take skates back. Knowle's front seven slash pressure. The defensive front to put pressure on brady is good as mahomes can handle in moving sidestep. And if you don't push pressure on brady and allowed to throw from the pocket and don't hit him. We could be in for one hell of a football game which we're going to be in for anyway but spag knowle's heck success so if that defensive front does not pressure brady and it's clean jersey tampa. Bay buccaneers go win the football game. It is incumbent upon them to try to do with four. So i'm gonna go defensive front and their pass rush for the kansas city chiefs against brady second down. Where does andy re rank amongst the best coaches all time i. He's gotta be. I mean obviously a hall of fame coach all-time these i probably going to be somewhere in that top. Six or so i mean. Certainly he's not gonna be out vince. Lombardi not going to beat out. Jim shula chuck knoll some of those guys from the old days. And how good they were bill belichick. He's not going to beat the amount but when you look at the fact that every year when he was in philly and of course he took the criticism he couldn't win the big game there because he didn't super bowl but again you know he didn't have patrick mahomes. Donald mcmahon mcnab and mcnab of course was good but he wasn't great and so You look in the fact that every year what went to five championship games in philadelphia. You look at it comes to kansas city. They're obviously every year in the playoffs. Now that championship level. Certainly he's one of the all time greats. Yeah to me bella. Check lombardi shula knoll. Landry and bill. Walsh belongs in the conversation as well But andy reid top ten no doubt and another super bowl or two if he's able to pull this off and win another one or two more with patrick mahomes while he's a head coach then indeed he's gonna he's gonna start to pressure the top five or higher i think currently he's the best now bills awesome what we see in roster later playing. Andy reed's best coach league right now. And he validates every year and easy guide alike but no for a guy that two years ago saying we can't win the big game although the winds and how special and everybody held him in regard high regard as a human being and as a coach but yeah and it does depend on players would say well he had good players course. You develop them that. That's part of and so did a million good players. So did walsh sodas ballot check the goods get good players and then they teach him to be better players. So it's part of it No doubt top ten and on the edge of the top five all time and three five years from now discontinues. He can jump up there in the top five of all time depending on. How many more super bowls. He wins down her down. Kim bruce arians be patient enough to win this game. Not taking too many shots shots. I think that's just bruce arians and one thing that's been good. The second brady has now been better at doing. Is taking his long pass downfield that he was before in the middle half of the season and so Now it'll take a shot. I think that be smart about things because one thing is it's as you mentioned. Steve spagnuola not only does it. Good do a good job with the front seven. But he's done a remarkable job with this cornerbacks. 'cause cornerback have become so much better in coverage and so i think that No i think they'll take their shots. I mean in the nfc championship game. He had three completions. That went twenty one yards air yards in the air downfield. He won't go back to even the last kansas city game in week twelve. He had five pass plays. That went twenty. Nine yards are over. Of course they're trying to come back from seventeen nothing deficits but no. I think that he'll take shots patient. No but again. I think it can work. I think he has to be patient. John and i think you can part of that'll be brady making sure isa's dude. I've been in a lot of these ten of them. Here's how we win these games and remember bruce. Arians is the one that said. Tom brady allow him to coach. Tom needs to coach in this game. Aside from plan. i can't see five shots. If bruce arians on third one or fourth one they throw those get into a fade throwing contests and then they got a punt. Because they do that. It's gonna be a problem because you punt mahomes so for me. There's no you gotta take shots. I'd take a few shots. Early back them off. But you've also got to be patient and smart with some simple easy throws to get completion. So if bruce gets into a fade throwing contest go vertical all game long and match the the mahomes vertical game w in trouble but if they mix them in right or smart with it which i think he's gonna be. I think bruce's learned a lesson. These here in. Tom's been a big part of it. Fourth down or prediction time. Who wins the game. Who wins the mvp. And why. i'm gonna go with Kansas city. Because i still think they're the better team of the two and patrick mahomes and so i give the scores. I think that'd be thirty. Four thirty one. I i i'm gonna give the mvp. I guess to patrick mahomes because again. Four sixty nine four hundred sixty yards plus in the last game. I mean this is going to be more into three hundred plus yard area. But i think you whole mahomes wins and thirty four points then. Of course. I think he's going to be the mvp. We got the same score. Exactly john just different teams. I got tampa bay. Thirty four thirty one got. Tom brady is the mvp for the reasons you're talking about from homes. Brady's been this this tenth. We know that. I think he gets it. Whoever has the ball last. I believe it's gonna be a dramatic finish wins. Because i don't think the defense is will get that stop in that situation but i actually trust tampa bay's defense a little more while spec knowles been good against brady learned a valuable lesson. If you're todd bowles in your defense a how not to defend tyreek hill and not defend. Patrick mahomes you're going to see a lot of multiple. Looks like they're gonna make a couple of plays somewhere in the game defensively and get a turnover too short field. I think thirty points for both teams is is not only going to be it but also going to be necessary and i don't think the i team to thirty wins. I think the first team to thirty four wins and it'll be tampa bay thirty four thirty one. Brady's the mvp and he comes back next year and has this team right back in the playoffs with the chance to do it again at forty four. Brady's the mvp tampa bay wins seven super bowls at ten johnny. Enjoy the game. I look forward to talking to you. And we'll wrap it up next week with our post one on a friday and you'd be safe out and enjoy it moment. Okay thanks appreciate. That's a great. John clayton coming back here. Wrap it up quickly and get our final predictions on sports. Talk seven ninety.

football brady sean salisbury patrick mahomes Nick foles shawn watson jerry jeudy jerry rice jim brown John clayton sean salisbury brady brady clayton south Johnny carson wentz jerry sean wa mitch trubisky carson wentz rice pittsburgh joe henry ruggs