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Case 120: Bill McGuire

Casefile True Crime

1:06:03 hr | 1 year ago

Case 120: Bill McGuire

"Parenting is no joke as listeners who have kids will know. Sometimes you'll find yourself saying things. You never thought you'd have to say that's why our friends had already i boom and demand event media wanted us to let you know about their brand new parenting podcast on never thought say this fulla hasta johnny sweden and her the best friend celia aloft couch get together h wait to recap the ridiculous in their parenting laws. Jody and celia tackled parenting booze interview while the celebrity parents and dive into the real issues that all parents face today fellow famous parents you can expect to hear from include chris thing lacking who starred in the sitcom step by step melissa joni mother of mattie and mccain's igla and andrea baba a full house us and to net flicks is fulla house never thought outside this is a co production from audio boom and main event media with new episodes every week they short search for and subscribe to never thought i'd say this on apple podcasts spotify stitcher or wherever you get your podcast era besides with serious and often distressing incidents if you feel it anytime you need support. Please contact your local crosses santo. Although i suggested phone numbers confidential support play the shy nights for this episode on your app or on our website and the month of april marks the beginning of the spring trophy fishing season throughout the united states the warmer weather other attracts a wide variety of deep water fish to the shallows to spawn and recreational anglers across the country flocked to likes revisit beaches hoping hoping to really know valuable catch one such popular fishing spot is chesapeake bay in the country's aced a two hundred mile long straight straight that encompasses the states of maryland and virginia eventually meeting with the atlantic ocean at its outlet the bay boasts a wide wide range of marine life with delicacies luck striped bass crabs and waste is among the most prized panty trophy fishing season and was well underway by ninety five two thousand four yet that particular wednesday presented a miserable mourning for those casting a line into chesapeake bbe local fishermen and longtime friends chris hang cool and dake owners had taken to the water by boat but the rott- weather had forced them to drop anchor at fisherman island the meeting point between the bay and the ocean area was offering little apart from chalks and into small fry which was disappointment especially foday's two young children same and clay who had come along for their inaugural fishing trip mm-hmm but ten a._m. The rain and wind finally subsided burst thorn calm to the waves and bringing a welcomed touch of sun mm-hmm when the clouds fondly potted the men saw an opportunity to set sail for more fruitful waters without a guaranteed better catch mm-hmm stretching above and below there was the chesapeake bay bridge tunnel a seventeen point six mile transit complex comprising of two bridges and to underwater tunnels facilitated traffic between virginia's detached coastline allowing travel as a pasta and more direct route from the mainland to adjoining states a series of four artificial islands marked the points where the bridge dipped below the surface of the water transforming into to the tunnel before reemerging chris day directed by past the four th orland where they call it sort of something floating being in the water alongside their vessel. It was a dock green suitcase given its proximity to the bridge diminish june two must've blown off the luggage rack of a beagle driving above and hold it on board twelve year old same expressed restes excitement a thinking i had stumbled upon parts treasue and hastily to the bag open funding held autumn's wrecked in thick black garbage bags suit with blue and hey steve type before anyone could stop him seemed to arrive in whatever their bags and screened in hawera his he discovered ed what light inside garbage bags contained the pale legs of adult human male severed at the knee joints. The suitcase didn't appear to of bain in chesapeake bay along had featured the branding of american fashion house and designer kenneth call who sold a wide range of clothing shoes and accessories the medium sized bag was part of the casual and affordable reaction collection and featured a retractable handle wheels and black detailing the following day the local newspaper the virginian pilot ran a short three sentence article on the grim discovery but the lack of data files ensured a garnered little attention many suspected the lack of media coverage was an intentional act to ensure the gruesome homicide so i would not impact to visit numbers to the fain virginia beach six days later at around midday on monday may ten and a graduate student cleaning up litter on the shores of fishermen orlands bird century spotted a large dock green suitcase lying on the sand. She ignored the autumn only to notice. It was still there when she returned to the shoreline. The following day giving into her curiosity she unzipped the bag and released the nauseating stench of rot from within it contained in autumn wrapped in black garbage bags. The upon closer inspection made the student recoil in horror. Police arrived and immediately recognized the suitcase as logic lodger version of the one van dyke zolia that contained the severed legs. This one was in worse condition. Having been based in the hot sun for days is with the surf causing it to become severely waterlogged and filled with sand to lila's of garbage bags concealed a human torso with the head and arms still attached the victim was a caucasian male aged between thirty and forty with a muscular physique and short brown hair several gunshot wounds were found throughout his body with those in the skull and abdomen proving fatal x ray imagery imagery revealed to bullets do nestled in the victim's chest than to waste was coveting grandfather's having passed through fabric before penetrating the body a blanket tucked behind the victim's head favored a tag that red property of hedge c._s._c. initials initials the u._s. based healthcare organization hospital central services cooperative the organization provided a variety of services including including an expansive laundry division supplied linen two medical clinics across the country a father and a half pound white marked with the fitness brand brand name way data was stored in the outside pocket of the suitcase in a bid to white. Damn both recovered cases. Were part of a three pace luggage set so by kenneth cole the third and final case in the set the smallest one typically used his carry on luggage by passengers on long haul flights what was still unaccounted for deport betrayed his use of a firearm and the clinic dismemberment of the victim mm-hmm lead virginia police theorize that the killing was a gangland style hit as for identifying the john doe offices checked act recent missing persons reports and turn to their attention to the sites large military population as crop talcott and muscular physique where akin into the conditions required for serving members of the armed forces the suitcases were believed to have been discarded into chesapeake bay from the bridge above but as the structure lacked security cameras no such act was caught on film the mid section of the victim was still missing from the belly button to the kneecaps raising the collective concerns of police media uh-huh locals that more body parts remained undiscovered within the bay six days later on sunday may sixteen the virginia beach marine patrol or alluded to the saudi of a small green suitcase floating in the karni the second dot official law land of the chesapeake bay bay bridge tunnel in the worst condition of the law. This suitcase was completely waterlogged and contained a black garbage bag covering the a funnel pace of the unknown victims body. The abdomen dawes dressed in a purple pair of fruit of balloon brand debriefs. He's skull nose and teeth was still intact preserving the overall look at these face and facilitating the creation of the composite sketch which was featured throughout regional news reports demage caught the attention of local couple. John and susan ross who believed that looked luke that close friend william mcguire better known as bill the rises arrived to the virginia beach police headquarters to view award topsy federal is of the suitcase victim in an effort to confirm their identification soup was convinced that was bill that her husband was was less certain believing his best friend was alive even though he hadn't heard from me in almost a month police ran bill mcguire wii name through that database and found no record of the men having been reported missing he did have a mona felony offense dating back to the early nineties for adopting aliases to rot fraudulent checks old though he was never charged bills fingerprints had been kept on file which detectives detectives sent for comparison against the suitcase victim as they awaited the results of the fingerprint analysis investigators dug further into bill mcguire history the thirty nine year old lived in a rental apartment three states north in the new jersey township of woodbridge with with these wife and two young sons and navy veteran bill was currently employed as an adjunct professor at the new jersey institute of technology and was the co owner of software consulting company j. vista software weeks earlier on wednesday april twenty eight he finalized the purchase of two-storey colonial-style himes dead in the rural new jersey township of asbury two days light on on on thursday april thirty at domestic violence restraining order had been filed against him by his wife. Melanie the bill and melanie had met while working in the hospitality industry and quickly fell head over heels in love but nineteen ninety-seven depend they moved in together as they concentrated on long term career goals and by the end of the year they were engaged. Melanie was already two months pregnant with their first born by the time their wedding took place in june nineteen ninety nine and fell pregnant again two years later many reported it depends on the perfect and able match cheering shop and sarcastic wit played off one another. Do was the mischievous practical joba who took immense pride in being a family man melanie who was eight years his junior was an intelligent and headstrong woman with a caring and compassionate saad display it through work as a fertility nurse yet. The maguire's unsteady marriage seemed indicative of a near decade long relationship that had gone through its fish air difficulties. The couple were not immune to squabbles and david fell foul of the law with bill court driving with a suspended losses and melanie light a lying under oath to protect in police discovered the restraining order melanie had taken out against her husband had not yet been served. Meaning bill would not have been notified of it furthermore accord. They had not been set set to make it permanent. Detectives contacted melanie to inform her then she explained that bill hadn't paining contact since he left their apartment three weeks tsuneo shea suspected he was having an affair and was convinced who was either in atlantic city where he was nine to frequent the casinos or virginia kenya beach where he had always wanted to live she had divorce papers ready having filed the documentation with the state that described bill bill has a volatile husband with crippling gambling and drinking problem. Melanie explained that his behavior had recently become more ready with the desire to purchase a drain family home becoming an obsession as he stayed awake for forty eight hours at a time scrolling through real estate listings she also claimed he threatened to kill her resulting in her flaying the apartment and placing their children in the care of her parents. The final straw came during a fight in the early morning hours of thursday april twenty nine. Melanie cited bill had quite why trenton to disappear work under a false name and social security number and never provide her with denny financial support would he left the apartment that day and since then had made no effort to return contact her or provide financial support to his family on wednesday may twenty six two thousand four bill mcguire was finally like aided. Ah the fingerprint stored in his police records were matched to the dismembered remains found in chesapeake bay disowning which police jurisdiction should front the investigation into bills modo was complicated needed given there was no crime sane and he was last seen in his home state of new jersey but he's buddy had surfaced in virginia the more more the whereabouts of these blackberry smartphone and vehicle a blue two thousand two nissan maxima. We're unknown police began tracing bills funnel movements paying visit to new jersey institute of technology to interview his colleagues dave reports poets were unanimous. Bill was regarded as a model employee and they were unable to imagine a scenario where the devoted father would elect to leave his family. This sentiment was shared. Bills business. Partner and co founder of j. Is the software j. Dan darva described him as the best friend. A person could ever have bill had scheduled to tight two weeks leave from my three to seventeen to facilitate moving his family and that possessions from their apartment into their new 'instead this timeframe lightest does the period korea bills remains were discovered in chesapeake bay at the time john donavan received two handwritten note from melanie mcguire that she had left wedged in his front door the first the daytona fought that occurred between her and bill and explained they would would no longer be moving into their new home. Melanie wrote that she hadn't heard from her husband in days adding that he had been quote behaving very radically and strangely lately and she was nail seeking divorce the second to note appeared four days later enquiring. If jay had heard from bill as melanie was trying to figure things out financially and whether he had taken any money from the j. vista software accompany account detectives also spoke with bills direct supervisor who reported that in the days following news her husband's death melanesian quiet about he's off insurance policy the institute of technology's life insurance policy provided up to three and a half off times in the employee as annual salary making bills pay out over two hundred twenty seven thousand dollars melanie mcguire great to speak with detectives organizing and meeting at her divorce attorney's office upon their arrival awful the detectives will lead into a conference room with our joined by melanie her divorce attorney and to their surprise a criminal attorney melanie was aloof and evasive during questioning giving clipped defensive responses shea maintained that her marriage was blake and and said bill wasn't well liked despite he's family friends and coworkers stating otherwise she called bill and unfriendly person who had a habit of pissing people off and insinuated that he's boss said wanted defy him as for the fought that had resulted in bills the pasha aw melanie explained the bill was a slap on the cash in their apartment when he awoke around four. I am on april twenty nine and instigated an argument with sir. He's fronton aleve her and berated her for being a bad mother before shoving her against the wall. He attack awoke could two year old son who rented the room. Melanie scooped him up and took shelter in a bathroom. Listening as bill moved around the apartment in gathering these things before leaving the next day. She filed a restraining order and moved into her parents house. She denied owning kenneth cole reaction. Three pace luggage said or a gun baz fulfils missing kara shape delay it could likely be found in her husband's gambling horn of atlantic city. After questioning melanie detectives retrieved the case to the mcgwire's guavas boomer apartment in woodbridge to conduct a search melanie had since vacated property and the superintendent hadn't cleaned the apartment in preparation direction for new tenants so the empty space remained exactly as the family had left it the detectives would therefore surprise to fund the interior immaculate condition the wolves had been raped painted and the hardwood floors glean as if polished with one detective for mocking and he put a value of the floor. It almost looked brain. Newin sawed forensic testing revealed no no traces of blood hair or salava or any way and luminol tests performed in the bathrooms resulted in false positives which can occur when heavy the advance of blake of bain used detectives questioned neighbors one described melanie as quiet lady and bill as the best neighbor. No one reported hearing any arguing or gunshots on april twenty nine the next morning detectives met with melanie and her criminal attorney at the storage unit that contained the maguire's furniture and belongings when asked to say anything being debt may have belonged to bill melanie pointed to a small blue plastic tupperware container that held mementos from his time in the navy and some family photographs melanie had since given away most of her deceased husband's things including his clothing white said and dumbbells the exercise. I just saw equipment was tracked down but it did not match the five and a half pant white from the suitcase that contained bills tool side. Melanie told investigators that after taking some time to think after her police interview she could now recall owning said of matching brain suitcases. She asserted they would have been designer because bill preferred brand name sings when detectives showed melania pitcher of one of the kenneth eknath call suitcases that had held bills remains shit grade looked a lot luck the ones they owned but offended no explanation as to their current whereabouts detectives were informed by the storage facility manager that melanie yarn to second small alaka that she had vile vile to inform them about when asked if i could search the second law cow melanie appeared surprised but consented in saad detectives found bills wallet which contained he social security and health insurance cards have few business cards and pitches of his family bulldog was a curious find. They left the wallet in the storage locker. For the time bay. Meanwhile the employee for profit telling company contacted police and explained that on saturday just over a week after bill disappeared impede they removed a blue light model nissan maxima from the parking lot of the infamous bloomingdale motel in atlantic city located located on the busy casino strip of pacific avenue. The moto was a near two hour drive away from the mcguire apartment and retain a poor reputation as a haven for delinquents. According to the towing company employee day was summoned to pick up cars after that were left stationary for at least is to four zero five days detectives arrived to the run dan fleming guy motel and fan no record of bill having stayed there. Uh tv footage showed bills car entering the parking lot at twelve forty one. I am on april thirty before a man emerged from the v._a. Equal and exited the frame. The grainy low quality footage prevented investigators from confirming. The men was bill. The car remained abandoned in the same space until it was towed days later. Police bills car and wallace showed no signs of tampering hampering. It contained several autumns of interest. He's blackberry smartphone and a laptop were in the trunk and to most notably the glove love compartment contained gloss boil of translucent pink tinged liquid and hypodermic syringe with the nato missing without knowing exactly which drugs to test for forensic toxicologists were at a loss as to what the liquid could bay as investigations fest the gatien's progressed. Melanie's negative portrayal of bills character was reflected in several front page news stories several alluded to the incidents described in her divorce falling including bills erotic manic behavior a- abuse and gambling addiction bills. I soi full-sized back to the media describing her former husband as abusive and manipulative shake claimed the dissolution of their marriage again again when bill initiated an affair with melanie and described falling a restraining order against him a year later after he allegedly threw rocks through windows they statements were in stark contrast took those provided by bills friends family and colleagues who consistently only maintained he was a lockable and con man who kid deeply for his wife and children the varied characterization of dough mcguire left many questioning what to believe with the head of the virginia beach hamasaki jeanette telling reporters. We've run into the same paradoxes as so you have. We have very different opinions on what this gentleman was lark on monday july twelve two ask for the day of bill maguire's funeral and massive storm handed new jersey flooding straits and inhibiting travel the the service was pushed back several hours to allow additional lawn for interstate mourners to arrive q. of kaz foam to brigadier general williams say doyle veterans memorial cemetery as guests waited in their vehicles per break in the weather at around onto full p._m. Melanie mcguire announced that she was going to leave to pick up a two young sons from daycare wasn't the first time launch shined disinterest in the service expressing beforehand that the event should not go ahead due to the possible media presence so she provided no flowers or any photographs of bill leaving friends and siblings two wargin assum diko to adorn. He's earned at the front of the chapel chapel. Melanie was convinced to stay and to the funeral eventually commenced with the military chaplain pacing together he sermon him and palm what little information she had provided at one point. He turned to her to ask what her husband's name was. <music> john ross's eulogy to his best friend provided a much-needed personal touch to the uncomfortably hollow service. Hey describe the bill as a loving father and proud military man john fund to a lamented bill's wild sense of humor which ensured he was a waste the the center of attention saying could tell you a hundred different stories about bill bill does shed a lot of great memories. This lock may bill was not a perfect person but he was a perfect friend. The service lost losted. I may twenty minutes and the following week. Melanie put them at y. Is as berry 'instead on the market listing it for slightly more than it had initially cost full months. After bill's body had surfaced full responsibility ability of the languishing case was handed to one central police agency the new jersey division of criminal justice. They began the arduous agilis task of for a rating of the case reports regained viewing witnesses reviewing old two hundred twenty one pieces of evidence and to retrieving the bills blood iran and body tissue samples. They reexamined the suitcases with the discovery of a long brown hair a purple fiber and a scrap of red nail polish elevating the theory that a woman may have been involved in the crime the manufacturer actor of the blanket that was found around bills head hospital central services cooperative provided investigators with a list of their clients. It included the reproductive medicine associates clinic in morristown. Where melanie mcguire worked a witness. I recalled melania had used some of the blankets to protectively rapid dining table whilst clearing out her potman following bill's death the investigators also retrieved six black garbage bags melanie had filled with bills clothing and offloaded to a friend. They were compared. Eh the garbage bags that contained his remains with dr patents and perforation marks similar across all meaning that will likely manufactured on the same aim assembly line within hours of one another. They also combed through bills emails noting that at six seventeen a._m. On the morning mooning of his disappearance an email was sent to his boss that read all be out seek today despite co-workers describing and bill as a power user of his blackberry he had ended his buses email address incorrectly and the out of character stike that caused the message to got one sent ballistics experts identified the bullets extracted from bills buddy as flat nosed thirty eight caliber. One cut is typically used in close range target practice. It was annoyed choice for a killa and lead one detective to believe the gunman was inexperienced. Experienced record showed that no one in connection to the bill mcguire case owned or had recently purchased a thirty eight caliber far rom in new jersey but as the gun laws in the neighboring state of pennsylvania were far more lax. These records were also searched revealing a link three days before bill went missing a motto lady far for blue metal thirty right caliber special taurus handgun with a two inch barrel was purchased jones gun and tackle store in the pennsylvanian c._d. Of ason weighing just thirteen and a hot answers the lot weapon was small enough to feeding so at a handbag. It was one of only five gun models on the market that could use thirty kalomo want to cut a bullets. The sale receipt pulsa listed an unspecified purchase valued at nine dollars ninety five never ran lee to what in the storm knocked with that cross one of which was a box of what cut a bullets mm-hmm when the shopowner was shown a foot lana and asked to identify the person who had purchased the weapon and demo. He singled at the image of melanie mcguire. He reminded her vividly as he didn't get many female customers and she was the first registered nurse. He never had any store <music>. Having being a regular routine is a great way to start and finish your day and quips electric toothbrush can help simplify that retain it takes just two minutes twice wasp died us and at slot white compact design makes it easy to travel. 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A. l. m. dot com slash case fall forty million people have downloaded calm down uae had come dot dot com slash baseball by early two thousand five to circumstance. You'll evidence implicating riding. Melanie mcguire in the murder of her husband was piling up but investigators would not convinced she acted alone in march. They began again covertly monitoring have phone calls and during conversations with her stepfather marco it appeared as though the two were speaking in coded language. She also spoke frequently with her boss. At the fertility clinic. Dr bradley mila. We'll mila was married. Family man the phone conversations associations between the pair indicated a level of familiarity that extended beyond professional relationship and it soon became apparent that were having an affair mm-hmm mila was subsequently ambushed and interrogated by investigators that he refused to speak without a lawyer present he was issued with a subpoena paint to appear before a grand jury and released on sunday march third ain't miller and his lawyer met with detectives to to negotiate immunity for providing truthful information about melanie mcguire in an ensuing for our interview to dr confessed that that the two had been having an ongoing affair despite his partnership agreement with the fertility clinic expressly forbidding frapp noise asian with colleagues their intimate relationship began in march two thousand two when melanie was thirty eight weeks pregnant with her second child over over the next three years the pic frequented nitel throughout new jersey into communicated via cyprus so fans they called their love lines. They talked constantly professing their love and making plans to lay families to start a new life together. According to camila on the naught and maguire's had finalized the purchase of their asbury home melanie cole to inform him that she was going to tell bill she wanted a divorce us mila trod cooling her several times over the next few hours desperate to know the outcome of discussion but was met with her voice mile will at nine the next morning of april twenty nine. Melanie fondly rang him back relaying the fut- between her and bill oh and sang she wanted to move out of the apartment and fall a restraining order against him. Melanie millo continued to make farrand divers. He's throughout may even after bill was discovered murdered the day her husband's car was recovered. Melanie cold mila to inform him that blurry c._c._t._v. footage captured in the flamingo motel parking lot had recorded a man driving bills equal but it hadn't been a the main in the footage at all it was her she explained that the nod after bill left their common she drove have to atlantic city looking for him and fantasies car in the parking lot of the taj mahal casino in raged. She decided to move it a mall all and a half away to the flamingo hotel so he wouldn't be able to find it off the woods. She couldn't remember where she had packed her own car so she. She took a cab back to the maguire apartment. By the time she arrived home. Melanie felt an joys enough to return to atlantic city so she hired an off duty cab and returned straight away to pick up a vehicle yet police discovered there was no record of any local. Oh cab companies taking alone famous passenger the need to allah draw between delay antic city and woodbridge at the tom's melanie claimed to have taken the journey journey. Melanie told me she returned to atlantic. City days laid out with her stepfather to check. If bill's car had been moved but it was still where she had left it. She returned again on her own on tuesday in may eighteen but the car was no longer there. Melanie claimed she hadn't told miller this sooner because she didn't want to upset him or make him things. She wanted. Bill back two months later. She admitted another sacred a few days before the settlement of the maguire's new home bill had asked her to purchase a gun since then you home was in a rural area he wanted a firearm to protect their family but he's criminal record prevented vented him from boeing one melania blige and made the purchase despite the strangeness of they stories dr miller admitted his infatuation with melanie had blinded him to skepticism. Melanie's fine conversations revealed. She was also in regular contact with a man named to james fien. The two had attended attended nursing school together in the mid nineties and although the nature of their current relationship was unclear conversations were often flirtatious. Uh i grew two thousand five james was questioned by police for close to eighty hours during which he claimed the two had ray connected in september two thousand four after he reached out to melanie to offer his sympathies for the loss of her husband he initially denied having romantic major feelings for her the when he was informed melanie had purchased a gun less than a week before bills murder. He cracked admitting he had been. I'm in love with melanie since nursing school back then he had professed these love to her but she currently rejected him and they remained close friends and according to the book to have antic you bud john glatt for christmas in nineteen ninety-five melanie board oh james at copy of stephen king's through novel dolores claiborne which tells the story of an abused woman who kills her husband and gets away with it inside melanie scrolled neo here is a story of a woman with true strength and wisdom. You can learn a lot from her. Why did after melanie married bill. Shea james fell out of touch but she began again writing him letters in february two thousand four which increased the frequency over the following months she complained of her dissolving marriage which described her husband's erotic behavior and expressed the fear of him according to james melanie made it sound like bill was a substance abuser or experiencing s._r. Cody bryk the wait before bill went missing. James responded to a particularly not really disturbing email from melanie by advising her to leave the house with the kids and stay with her parents. He recommended she boss a small handgun for protection suggesting forty caliber non mila made us semi automatic as it was a more manageable weapon for some with her diminutive steve five foot statue when he lited question melanie about whether she had made the purchase she categorically denied it. Now realizing shit lied to him. James been also negotiated immunity with investigators and consented to engage in several ever wiretapped phone conversations with melanie during one co. James begged her to reveal the location of the gun. She had urged richest. The melanie said the last time she saw it was in a locked box in her own apartment. She claimed to have checked the lock box. After discovering covering bill had been murdered but it was empty on the morning of thursday june two two taza five a little every year since bills body parts surfaced melanie mcguire was formerly charged with these first degree murder her she pleaded not guilty and in a subsequent press conference it was announced that additional arrests were possible and that the prosecution may seek the death is penalty new jersey state police superintendent joseph winters said the investigation has woven a very strange tale of lies deceit infidelity and murtaugh at the time of her arrest. Melanie leave dna the township of brick. New jersey and detectives immediately secured a warrant to search her residence. They left with multiple items including being her personal computer. D._v._d.'s and a circular saw milanese nissan pathfinder car was also processed for evidence as for her to storage units with detectives funding the lock box. She mentioned during her phone conversation with james finn. It didn't contain tena gun but instead bills wallet meaning it had since placed in there after detectives court saw of it in the storage unit a year oleo five days after her arrest. Melanie's parents use to their home as collateral to secure her seven hundred fifty thousand dollar a bio two months later strange letters were sent to several recipients including the site attorney general local newspaper hypoc the trent tinyan melanie maguire's lava dr bradley mila her divorce attorney and melanie herself four pages of rambling tax implicated organized crime groups in bills murder so adding he's gambling addiction as the cause and accusing him of being a rampant jada and pathological liar the letters mentioned three significant details that had not been released to to the public throughout the course of the investigation that bill was wearing purple grapes at the time he was killed that his arms were still attached to his torso coarser and then a dumbbell had been used to white dan one of the suitcases the lead referred to melanie as lazy lie and said she couldn't do what it took to and at one point three men to do investigators believed saved melanie right the letters to divert the attention away from her as the murderer on tuesday tuesday october eleven two thousand five at grand jury hearing commenced to determine whether there was enough evidence to indict melanie for first degree murder the prosecution were interviewing fun witness when a fedex package arrived at the courthouse proceedings halted and the jurors filed out of the chamber while the contents of the package were inspected it contained suva bracelet and wedding ring suspected to have been in bills the lock box k. and nissan car k. at calendar with the words set her up written on the back a plastic bag of prescription medications occasions and did tony amounts of marijuana. An anonymous letter addressed to the assistant attorney general claim to the author worked worked the same real estate office is cindy one of bill maguire's older sisters and claimed to uncover the articles in that package in the trash along with two handwritten to do lists todd final stages and set her up. They alleged were pen too by cindy. They detailed a plan to implicate melanie and her family in bills moda to inevitably claim. He's laughing chores and adopt these children clearly early in reference to the fact that cindy had taken custody of bill and melanie sons following the latter's arrest. The handwriting on the lists did not match cindy's nor that of any of her coworkers the more the phone number for her office was wrong as was the return address address. The office also didn't use fedex as a carrio. It was clear the lists were penned by someone else entirely tali so f._b._i. Forensic linguist james fitzgerald was brought in to determine the true warta he was responsible for bringing being infamous unabomber ted kaczynski to justice and concluded that the list send anonymous full-page lettuce sent in august sheds stylistic marcus doc id and punctuation commonalities which samples of melanie mcguire is android to an eighty five to ninety five percent degree of certainty so the verdict paki was determined to obtain sent two days prior paid for with an american express gift card purchase that arrived eight drugstore in the new jersey city of passaic detectives reviewed the pharmacies c._c._t._v. and spotted a woman matching melanie's description end to the store at three forty eight p._m. Gift card was purchased three minutes later. The prosecution believed it was no coincidence. The fedex package showed up during melanie's hearing cooling a mockery of the investigation and the law stacks of a desperate woman. Uh on wednesday october twelve the grand jury handed melanie mcguire full canting doorman for first degree murder second degree possession of a weapon for an unlawful purpose second-degree offense for desecration of human remains and the degrade perjury from making false material statements to the family court accusing her husband of being a threat to his family's health and safety. Sir bio was raised two million dollars. Melanie hyde hotshot madison avenue loya joseph teke pena described in the new york times newspaper as donald trump of the new york defense. Bah tech of pain was notoriously aureus lake flashy with a flair for the dramatic hold. Oh he wasn't law since the practice laurie new jersey he was given permission to serve alongside a local attorney attorney tack pay now was quick to direct the media's attention to the overwhelming support shown to his client by her friends family and noticing missing patience saying all would not have come into the case if i did not have one hundred percent confidence in melanie mcguire innocence and one hundred percent confidence in my ability to represent a website todd the friends of melanie legal defense fund was set stop with donations from melanie support network and anonymous contributors securing her two million dollar bail born on november results of forensic testing revealed traces of melanie's d._n._a. On the floor of bills abandoned nissen maxima microscope human tissue and bone particles all say bane discovered on the drive is saw at flat described as human sore dust. A forensic rented gains for paula gist to jews to bevelled anoff had luckily been used to cut bills flesh and then a reciprocating saw to get through the bone. The prosecution believed melanie must have stepped in the human sodas tough dismembering bills body and attracted into his car before she abandoned it in atlantic city in january two thousand six a forensic team searched the maguire's fulmer apartment for a third talk looking for a possible source for grain fibers fanned on a bullet recovered from bills buddy they had been identified as polyester e._s. to feel a common material standing household furniture leading investigators to theorize that melanie may have used a pillow to muffle the sand of the gone on as she shot her husband a list of furniture that had belonged to the maguire's mentioned green capped cushions that hadn't been seen gene since the murder. The forensic team extensively swept the man vacuuming events crevices at the base of the walls and david electric kowt. Let's but to no result on monday march the two thousand six melanie's defense team moved to the have hearing dot mun dismissed due to a lack of concrete evidence. The prosecution argued whilst there was still unknown aspects in the investigation gatien and they case relied strongly on circumstantial evidence. Melanie <unk> doesn't get the benefit of doing a good job of killing. The judge agreed affirming. Melanie was luckily the last person to say bill alive and scheduled her trial for january the following ear meanwhile digital investigators processed the various electronic devices is removed from the home of melanie mcguire and that of her parents which include handheld devices three laptops and computers. You're several salaciously messages. Sent between melanie and dr bradley mila proved their longstanding love affair and internet search conducted on the maguire's laptop ten days before bill was last seen alive read how to commit murder this was followed by searches but where to purchase a gun with yadda permit antao to purchase a gun in pennsylvania as well as instant and undetectable poisons fatal lean shallan on doses and the highly effective fast acting sedative claro hydrate investigators had long believed the bill had been incapacitated prior to being shot with suspicions centred on the vial of unknown pink liquid fan denise car the internet search for claro hydrate gay forensic toxicologists something specific to test for and their analysis of the liquid tested positive for the sedative investigators began combing through every prescription written out at the reproductive medicine associates clinic and discovered one had vaine made up for five hundred milligrams of claro hydrate sawn but dr bradley mila the prescription was for a patient with the the initials t. b. who visited dr miller in march and april of two thousand four to get a second opinion on a medical issue detectives met with who revealed she had never received a prescription for any medication from the clinic detectives questioned amila who denied broadening this grit saying he would never prescribe claro hydrate to a facility patient he did explain that noces given prescription prescription writing privileges so it was possible that melanie had filled the script at herself. This was further corroborated by the managing partner corrupt practice who verify it was not unusual for nasa saw. An adult is name on a prescription. The prescription was filled at a walgreens walgreens pharmacy in edison. New jersey distorts pharmacist confirmed filling out the prescription on wednesday april twenty eight two thousand four. Oh the day before bill allegedly left. He's at potman. The stool was a mile and a half drive away from the dyke's and when melanie had dropped take children off twelve minutes before the prescription was filled given the discovery of new evidence. Melanie melanie was hit with an additional. I can't indictment charging her. With hindering prosecution evidence tampering falling false reports and possession controlled substances the judging priesthood bio by one hundred thousand dollars which she secured the following day the following months the legal teams disputed the admissibility of evidence resulting in court delays then on monday march. I five two thousand seven after nearly three years of investigations. Melanie mcguire trial finally began the prosecution asserted the motive for the murder rested in melanie's affair with dr bradley mila they presented demands on of circumstantial eleven said testing to melanie's guilt and to win ni- display the gruesome photos of the suitcases and their contents the defendant odd them with impassive impassive expression referring to the investigation as sloppy her defense team went to work attacking bills character containing he was a volatile gamboa and he's death was in some way related they relied on the fact that searches of the maguire repot men len had come up empty and the mode weapon was still missing in his three l. Closing argument joseph teke pena insisted melanie melanie could not be convicted on circumstantial evidence alone asserting the police hadn't even bothered to look at any other suspects he pointed two contradictory assumption that melanie was somehow a criminal mastermind yet neglected to cover horon tracks when it came to her incriminating online searches and gun purchase the prosecution was certain melanie had an accomplice yet was still unable to identify a who exactly at one point they left her mother and stepfather rattled when they indicated the letter was involved in the aftermath of the crime time based on previous comments made by melanie and they're seemingly coded phone conversations mm-hmm on monday april twenty three two thousand seven after four days of deliberation. The jury found melanie mcguire guilty of the murder of her husband die also found her guilty of possession of a firearm for unlawful purposes desecration of human remains and perjury melanie brogden into cheese collapsing into the arms of her attorney. Bill sister cindy took little <unk> joy in the ruling despite her hatred for melanie or she could think about where the two young boys who would have to live without a mother or a father lamenting day only have each other now in the ensuing months. Joseph teke peanut tried to overturn return melanie's conviction. He's i appeal was the gnawed on june eighteen two thousand seven. He argued for a new trial claiming and you witness had emerged that could prove the mob was responsible for bills death. The witness was a prison in may he claimed claimed to have once been a mobu kepa and loan shark fee claimed bill owed ninety thousand dollars to the criminal organization mm-hmm but when he will say claim to be a descendant of medieval lampre charlemagne as well as eighteen united states presidents. Melanie's defense quickly weekly withdrew the motion for a ray draw. Try to sentencing victim impact statements delivered bus indies spoke of the impact act two bills murder had on her life. She said he sons were just babies. Only two and four years old owed when the sun rose on that april morning and their daddy was nowhere to be found they were denied a chance to wave and say goodbye mm-hmm bills nays. Laura described that her uncle's infectious grin and the bush mischief in his eyes when nail marred by the police sketch of his lifeless expression and thoughts of his dismembered body speaking of melanie's actions. Laura said she has stolen smiles at lofta. How joy she has also taken something deepa from all of us. You have renaissance faith in humanity thirty four year old. Melanie mcguire was sentenced to life. If in prison judge frederick divest said the desecration of william maguire's remains was particularly heinous and and depraved. He's body was treated as trash. It was cut and soda pop and then packaged in garbage bags. He's remains were left to decompose in the warriors of another state with the identification so that his family and friends model ways bay deprived of the dignified funeral service and burial melanie challenge the ruling in march two thousand eleven not to no avail okay oh in two thousand fourteen. She fought a petition for post conviction relief accusing her lawyer joseph teke pena of denying her effective effective representation shake claim to his high on prescription medications and too focused on extramarital affairs to concentrate on her defense vance in january two thousand eighteen. The supreme court officially denied her petition mocking the end of the lawn for her pule. The process despite suspicions that an accomplice assisted with the disposal of bills body they have never been identified and and to no one else has ever been arrested charged in relation to his murder a reporter for new jersey's home news tribune ken serano ronna provided extensive coverage of the murder from the outset. Hey said the verdict in this case confirmed to pretty doc view of what people are capable of you could be compassionate and caring and at the same time being credibly go at bala coup so that was the truly chilling thing about this case <music>.

Melanie melanie melanie mcguire bill bill melanie maguire Melanie New jersey bill melanie bill mcguire atlantic city murder Melanie millo melanie cole bill attorney virginia united states melanie brogden chesapeake bay melanie sons woodbridge
Laura McGuire on Consent and the #MeToo Movement

PodcastDetroit.com

24:59 min | 1 year ago

Laura McGuire on Consent and the #MeToo Movement

"You're listening to the PODCAST DETROIT visit. WWW DOT podcast dot com before information welcome to smart sex smart love. We're talking about sex goes beyond the taboos and talking about love goes beyond the honeymoon. I'm Dr Court. Thanks for the tuning in a right this week. We're going to be talking about consent and the metoo movement consenting incenting and asking for consent are hugely important consent is all about you're setting your personal boundaries and respecting those of your partner and checking in and if things aren't clear both people must agree to sex every single time for it to be consensual without consent sexual activity including oral sex genital touching and vaginal or anal penetration is sexual assault or rape talking with me about consent this week is Dr Dr Laura McGuire and she's a nationally recognized sexologist and consultant she has worked as an instructor presenter educator and trainer on topics including in consent education and sexual harassment prevention in two thousand fifteen laura served as the first sexual violence prevention and Education Program Manager at the University of Houston and in two thousand seventeen she became the first victim advocate prevention educator at the US Merchant Marine Academy. Welcome Laura aw thank you so much for having me on so excited to be here. Oh me too. It's so timely and you've done so much work around this and I want my podcast to include this as as much as I can and I thought we could just start with. Can you clarify consent in the era of me to what that means not only <hes> and I think this is this is one of the central questions and is your consent and a lot of people have different concepts. Just let that might not be for me. Consent is really a holistic approach to interpersonal dynamics bodily autonomy and a respect for the dignity of every person I love that and so and what that means is individualized to every person French went right for themselves right exactly and and miss by team and everyone get interactive right not just somebody where in bed with but anybody that you're connecting with <hes> and respecting their own boundaries their own needs and not projecting what we think they're okay with onto them. Maybe this is too big to go into right away but it's on my mind. I wanted to ask you about this. I have had clients. It's <hes> and just people in my life where they have an interaction. I'm talking about a heterosexual male female interaction and he goes was to make a move that may that <hes> and she pulls away at first but then she goes along with it and she says you know I'm GonNa do this and so then they do they they engage in whatever that is and then afterwards. She says you know I didn't <hes> a consent to that and that was not okay. I did pull back and then he says but then you pull back in and then I thought that was your way of saying it's okay. How do you address those kinds of you. Know non verbal able behaviors definitely so this is this is a huge issue and it's a huge issue cut previously previously for many many many generations as a world. We generally thought if someone isn't citing off somebody and saying saying no stop then well even if it's a gray area. It's a baby then it's okay you know and I remember very even as a teenager reading an article in Cosmo and it was about something they called quote unquote gray rate and it was essentially about that concept right well. I didn't take no and they didn't you know slap the person away then. Could you really and Whoa what a difference twenty years makes all right. We are now looking at this very very differently and I think that's a good thing <hes> but it's it's what makes it hard for people right because just like you're saying in that example a guy might say well. I have been socialized that sometimes women you know maybe they're frigid their coal barren comfortable but you know you convince convince them and and they into it and really for the first time in our world. We're saying you know as especially as women will so that wasn't okay. You know I felt pressured or I even felt afraid what you might do if I outwardly straight up rejected you <music> <hes> so I went along with it but it wasn't happy about it <hes> and I think right and so that's where we are evolving to say. It's not no means no. Uh Consent is not the absence of you know a no. It is the presence of a clear yes right so if someone's in a situation where they're not a hundred percent sure this persons being chew it and and completely agreeing to what's going on. They need me to get comfortable enough to ask them and and what I was so especially. Young people is if you're not comfortable enough past you know how are you feeling. Is this something you want to make sure you're comfortable <hes> and on the same page then you're not ready to have sex love them that goes if you're older now to right this way well. It's time to reevaluate now. Some people said to me well. It's just not sexy to say well. Can I do this. This can do that. Do I have your permission to do that and then I I say not love to hear your answer my answer is you have those sexual health conversations before you start making moves like what's what's on limits what's off limits and then you start to engage but do you have a different answer for that. Yeah no no very similarly <hes> it is about having having a conversation ahead of time but then of course checking in and making sure the person's okay right and you have to have that emotional intelligence to to read re read their cues. Somebody's testing and you just you have to be able to say you know. Just you seem that. Maybe something's office off. This isn't exactly what you want anymore. You know let me know <hes> and having that open communication but it is really a conversation that you have before and you say you know what you like. What don't you like <hes> you know. What kind of things would you like to do with me today. If you know if the moments rate and we were feeling it <hes> and it's interesting because if you look at the history of affirmative consent in the Western world right because there's there's also the coach cross cultural analysis of how other cultures have normalized this and been deemed anthropologist the scrape free which we can talk about later but but if you look at as a western North American society founded this even get started it started in the Tin Community in the nineteen eighties and because of what they call scenes right where they interact with each other in some kind of <hes> interpersonal or sexual play that they could get very intense. <hes> and people could be physically emotionally hurt. They really put that early. You know it's on we have to have a conversation upfront. It's about what is going to look like <hes> how we're going to communicate with each other. It's okay. It's not okay <hes> and and that way it's it's not constantly saying like do this. Can you do that. <hes> one of one of the people. I interviewed for Book. I'm writing on on title nine a guidebook books for schools around this issue and <hes> and confront you know she says when you constantly ask somebody in moment what kind of what you talked about in that scenario earlier he's actually of manipulation right because in the moment I might be like I guess it's okay worry thing and down. We feel uncomfortable and then they get him by versus. I'm close you know what I mean. I have personal space and I can say generally okay with this and I would like to do this with you. Nothing is that's actually I think so how'd -solutely and I think if people okay just not sexy 'cause they're not used to that makes sense. And what about the idea of like what you're saying. I've heard people say well okay. I'm I'M GONNA I'M GONNA do my best to be emotionally attuned but <hes> I might not be and I may not totally get it and so where's the responsibility of the person to say <hes> what what's going on without me having to read that person. What about that right well and you know you just have to ask right? You have to be able to say. Is that feel good good. How are you stealing you like this. You know that's not had I can I can I if it's just having that constant Oakland Communication <hes> <hes> and checking in right and so if you're not sure you do just have to ask and again. I really do think when people get used to that they find that they have way more satisfying sexual interactions <hes> they lenient feeling more emotionally satisfying night because you know oh you were with someone who was one hundred ten percent into you know what was going on and loved it. That's really hot. It's always the same like I I don't know maybe they were okay with it. We'll see right because allowed a lot of men feel really like you know that the metoo movement doesn't speak to them because most of the men in my practice in my own social social circles say if a woman's not into it then I'm not into it. I'm completely turned off. These are really only certain kind of men that are doing this against women's wills but then there's a covert ways that men are doing it that they don't even know right. It's a continuum right right right and absolutely and we WANNA make I'm sure that you're not saying that people who are predatory in nature right if you get off on the power dynamic <hes> assaulting somebody great because they're not they're not interested in sex. They're interested in power to ensure that. We're not connecting that to again. These these shifts that were going through where people are still adjusting <hes> and they might be doing problematic thing that they can say well you know before. This was okay well. It wasn't really okay the society let it slide right and we're we're changing how he approached that <hes> but I I have worked with the number of offenders in in campus title nine cases and and worked on restorative practices with them and one of the the things that they tell me you know 'cause these are the people who are on that spectrum of problematic behaviors not being able to reach us. <hes> you know kind of toxic mask ways scenarios <hes> they tell me you know. I feel rejected. I don't have the interaction with people that I WANNA have. It's in a sexual context. <hes> I leave wondering if they actually like to me or they're actually into it right so it's just not having real little true. Consent isn't satisfying for anybody <hes> and so we'd actually benefits men. Women Trans on binary people everybody benefits et changing perspective and I have to be honest before the me too movement. There was a a year before when the <hes> come out that trump Donald Donald trump had said they had caught a tape that about him grabbing women's genitals and but he had also said and I do sexualize women when I'm talking to them. I'm thinking about being sexual on dressing them and just became a topic in Yoga Group. I was in was like a meditation Slash Yoga Group and <hes> it came up and then one of the men in the group <hes> said you know I. I don't grab women. I would never do that but I do think about undressing women when I was about to say the same thing in my mind with other men when I'm with them when I and before I could do that this woman <hes> very <hes> <hes> impassively but strongly and vulnerably started to talk about how she's grabbed every day in different places in different ways by men in different settings and then other women in the group said same here. I go out and people feel I was pregnant. People feel they can touch my body. They can touch my stomach and went on and on and I was so glad I didn't say anything and the guy. That spoke felt so bad about what he said. I think the men in the room including me had no idea I mean I really had no idea how many times women are disrespected disrespected in a day until she spoke and then the metoo movement raised my awareness even more. I don't know if men admit that kind of thing but I am overwhelmed by sometimes <hes> yes I. I think that that brings up a couple of really important points right is we don't often understand and <hes> especially if you belong to <hes> socially privileged group what other people are experiencing right and we see this with racism sexism homophobia able able is <hes> right where we think oh you know. I think it's generally okay for those people that and then they tell us you've no idea. I I can't even imagine <hes> but I think that's a really good point the green up it's not just in a sexual context right and that's why I just like consent as interpersonal personal dynamic <hes> because someone's touching your belly. You're pregnant <hes> or demanding hug from you as a child. You know there's so many anyway so we are told these messages that you know you don't have a right to say no. You don't have a right to your body that someone with a title or position. Shen <hes> can can just take that away from you and decide that they just wanted to do what they wanna do in and that's ultimately the problem is that we have to stop the way we think about <hes> respecting other people's bodily and emotional timing. I love that you brought up the thing with children because the new thing that I learned this year was if a child says I don't want to hug grandma I don't WanNa hug grandpa then don't force the child to hug grandma GRANDPA or whomever that there may be the reason and even if just the reason is I want a authority or autonomy over my body then that should be okay right right exactly and you know oh I grew up in in the deep. South and I've heard a lot of backlash over here about you know well that that's GonNa make children disrespectful to their Elderski yeah and I think it's important to clarify that. We're not saying that the child then ignores grandparents raising just turn around and walk away. There's so many ways to interact and greet somebody <hes> in a positive and respectful manner that doesn't demands physical contact yard because again those messages you you think about what is that then say to somebody <hes> when they're in a relationship when they're older right we have to hug grandma. GRANDPA because they have the title <music> of of a relative <hes> okay well then when you have a boyfriend and they had that title and they demand physical contact. You have to go along the chip members of the messages that again just become supplement along and you can say well. Is it really that bad but it does. It is a continuum of harm. It is how bill you know one issue into another leads to another and before we know we feel this stuff that we're seeing the movement we say where did this come from. We weren't even thank attention. Yeah and I have to go along with what you just said about not paying attention. I then read an article in the last year about gay men in the Metoo to movement in how does it apply to us doesn't it and at my original reaction was no. It doesn't apply to us. I mean when women gays basis where I'll touching each other. Were all doing this and doing that and then I thought but you know there. There are times that I've been touched in. I want to be touched and I thought well should. I want to be touched. I'm gay and everyone else is doing it here ear and if I say don't touch me then people look at you like well. Why don't you want to be touched the other day my husband and I were in province town and we were sitting behind these two guys really nice guys and they were drinking and they are a little drunk and one of them started massaging my shoulders in a very sexual way. Mike is sitting right next to me and I never said it was okay or not okay and I didn't know what to do. I have to be honest and it must be like that for women I didn't I wanted to turn around and say please don't do that but that felt too aggressive and if I let him continue. Can you doing that then Mike see next. I was like in a weird place. What would you say to them. Yeah absolutely and I was meeting. We knew should apply to everybody one hundred percent because how a different approach to how we work on all of the ways we interact with each other right and and that goes for everybody every gender every race every organization <hes> <hes> another example of this best in how is the plight is with with people who have physical disability and wheelchair people would just walk us and physically touch you know their their share their king whatever as if it's not an extension of their body and it doesn't belong to them <hes> and and and that's definitely a violation of economy and consent and so yeah right and so if you're has space at any time and you thank you know this doesn't feel right. You're absolutely right that it is hard to say you know. Oh you know please don't touch my shoulders. You're making me uncomfortable comfortable because and the person and sometimes I didn't mean anything by your to sensitive <hes> right and so that's that's where we want. Let's get everybody to understand that yes. This is important and it does benefit everybody <hes> and that person should ask asked before they wrap your shoulders and say can. I <hes> and I think you know so many times already part of a marginalized group already feel like like it. You're saying it's so hard to find spaces as where people that we feel comfortable and we can be sexual not shame for it right and so then we think oh if I have have to bring in new rules to this group. Are they gonNA accepted. You know we've already overcome so much already but I do think it's important absolutely absolutely and I will say I haven't seen that same dynamic in Queer female spaces and liquor woman myself. I think we're very big on consent and boundaries because we often have all extremes some kind of trauma around it and so I think that's something when we see that it with gay men that is probably kind of <hes> <hes> a side effect of toxic masculinity and internalizing that right just filing people's boundaries and and not getting used to ask him I that's a very very interesting slant and I didn't know that about the lesbian community that you are much more about concerned that makes sense to me though because of the trauma histories and the <hes> directness right of gene we'll we'll trauma histories and then then the correcting of that within themselves right yeah <hes> what would you say <hes> drinking and drugs how the effect consent yeah so especially with college students who again. I I work with a lot <hes> and this is this it is time I drink or use drugs <hes> and and still get consent and what if we're all what's wrong. All the reality is legally you you are in a very dangerous zone because truthfully it the way that somebody might have difficult when they're sober saying now because they feel intimidated or they feel uncomfortable <hes> if somebody is not in their right mind and they're not completely aware what's going on around them or what they're saying yes to then how. How can we really have an affirmative a clear agreement to something right if we don't really know what's going on right <hes> on the other side. You know I worked. You didn't so who will say especially in college but I am. I am going to smoke pot with my boyfriend and we aren't going to have sex and so you learn. I'm from him well again. Remember legally you're walking a a really dangerous line <hes> but I understand that that is something people as adults will consciously choose used to do and so then you know what kind of again communication <hes> and safety precautions can you put in place and I think ah that is something that they will have to decide on their own and it's it's I think similar that tank H. to the concept of consensual non consent right like if I'm not in my right mind but but I'm still going to agree with this ahead if I'm going to get someone complete power over me <hes> to decide what's going to happen next as a consent as in if you very very nervous <hes> but again I ultimately want to empower people about the risks and then make sure that they know that they have agency to which decide what's right for them in their body that we only have a few minutes left. What would you say we didn't get to that. You would like make to make sure that is included in this podcast yeah <hes> I guess the last thing to touch on that I think is really important and I've gotten a lot of really positive feedback on when I speak speak to it is is the fact that rape and domestic on all kinds of interpersonal gender-based violence are not human nature and I think that's a really important point to make because a license people say well. You know you're not going to solve the problem and you know. This is just how people are. This is. Just how many women are and the wonderful. The news is that's not actually true. We have been able to find a number of examples of cultures particularly tribal communities the do not have a concept of sexual assault or domestic violence because they have so much empowerment and equity between the genders because they reject puck masculinity and you can toxic seminary if you want to talk about that too and and and they really make sex something that's very empowering something's very normal and without Shane and when you see those they knew together these their cultures that just do not have a word four concept for the things that we think of as human nature when normal or common that Salaam yeah. Let's really inspiring right is that we can take the lessons that they have and learn from them and I definitely think we can. We can create a new cultural expectation arm around these issues. No thank you for adding that. That's really important so we're can people find you. Tell us your websites twitter account. Whatever you want people to know to find you definitely yeah so I'm super active on linked in Dr Laura Wires may name on there they can get to my website and my personal faith the eyes as in dog R. isn't Roger Dr Laura McGuire Dot Com <hes> my firm's website so I do a lot of work through there is equity and agency agency spelled out dot com on twitter and Instagram <hes> they can find me at at Equity Agency or at Dr Laura Mcguire. I'm so glad to have you as a resource. Thank you because there's so much out there that I don't think is is so good and I think your stuff is excellent top. Notch and people should go to your website and your stuff and read it. Thank you so much. Thanks for listening to this episode of Smart Sex Smart Love. I'm Dr John Court and you can find me on JOE COURT DOT com. That's J. O. E. K. O. R. T. DOT COM and see you next time.

Dr Dr Laura McGuire Dr John Court laura assault rape twitter Mike Equity Agency US Merchant Marine Academy University of Houston Donald Donald trump partner harassment Education Program Manager consultant instructor Dr Laura Wires Roger Dr Laura McGuire Slash Yoga Group Oakland
EP 13 Sow Intentionally with Anna McGuire

The Uncommon Christian Podcast

20:36 min | 7 months ago

EP 13 Sow Intentionally with Anna McGuire

"Hey everyone. Thank you so much for tuning in today for episode number 13. We're in a new conversation series called. So what this series is all about understanding how we can get intentional seeds in our everyday life and the results of that is reaping the fullness of God's purpose in our lives today. I am joined by local church pastor counselor found host of the so what podcasts and McGuire. Well, here we go. This is the uncommon Christian podcast with Michael Higdon. All right guys. Well today I'm excited for you cuz our series called. So what we are actually joined by the creator of the so what podcasts Miss mrs. Sorry Anna McGuire make sure I get that right missus. She is Merry Gentlemen. She's taken Miss. Mrs. Anna McGuire. Anna is the discipleship pastor at Parkside Church and her husband Andrew. Also a pastor's the pastor of leadership in Ministry at Parkside Church as well. And will you say hi to the podcast for us? Hey everyone. So excited to be with you here today. Yeah, and we're so thankful that you said yes to coming out to the show. I literally guys just so you know, I am I Andrew and Anna I met when I was a student pastor at Traders Point Christian church, and they were coming by to check out the ministry and I got a chance to talk with him and give him a tour and and birth. Actually even tried the higher-energy. I don't know if he told you about that. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I wanted to honor of his life. He was like, oh my gosh. Michael would want me to be part of his team. Yes. I really really tried to hire Andrew, but God wanted you guys to stay in Indianapolis. And so I got the the next best thing was to get you on the podcast. So that's super honor to be here super super super honored. Well Anna started a podcast of her own called. So what now before we jump into what that means and took it today and I wanted to tell us a little bit about yourself. You know, I know already get I already kind of gave it away, but who you are what you do and why you do it so during my high school years. I began to develop this passion for helping people and so for a while, I thought that meant pursuing a career politics that would focus on legislation. Like I like to read I like to write I like to help people. To speak a lot as I thought. Oh, yeah. I'm like called be a politician but then I soon realized after several Quiet Moments and defining moments with God that that men all those passions were out for serving the local church. So I decided that going into college. I was going to pursue a ministerial degree and as I was pursuing my ministerial degree in church leadership, I also discovered this left for counseling and psychology. So I quickly added that minor and as I discovered more and more about us like man psychology and counseling really is found in scripture faith, and I decided that I was going to get my Master's in counseling at some point because I wanted to start marrying the two together like psychology and counseling was created by God. I believe for God's children and for so many people they are exclusive of each other. It's like either your Christian or you pursue counseling like a game. There you pray about it or you go to psychotherapy about it like there. It's not a both and and so I just began as I studied psychology and counseling office. I started seeing. Wow. Paul talks a lot about counselling in Psychology. And even in Jesus's approach to people who've walked through trauma like that is found in a theories and techniques counseling books. And so I decided I want to get my Master's in counseling. So in May of 2019, I graduated with my master's degree in School counseling and mental health counseling from Indiana university-purdue University Indianapolis IUPUI. And so I'm originally from Wisconsin and I went to college in Missouri. So Indiana was never on my radar to live here actually growing up in Wisconsin. We had kind of like make fun of Indiana. I don't know why but here I am my husband and I moved here five almost 5 years ago to serve as youth pastors at Birth. Search and now we're both as you shared serving on a pastoral team at a church plant and enough North suburbs of Indy. And so it's just kind of crazy. So that's where I'm at. And it's so funny cuz as I am also a new mom and I'm pastoring I'm counseling I've been finding myself constantly coming to this conclusion that I want to live in relationship in such a way with people that it makes them want to live in relationship with Jesus and live in relationship with people in such a way that it brings God's kingdom to Earth. So that's why I do what I do. I love to invest in people in relationship with people serve people and really just started from this like desire in high school for like, how do I serve? How do I serve people? How do I help them? Yeah, that's so good. And you have a son named Archie. How old is he? He is 6 months old and he's massive. We just found out today and then 94th percentile for like height and all that jazz. He's huge. And so the first time parents, right? Yep, first time the best advice I ever got when we became parents was don't listen to anyone else's advice. You know, somebody shared that with me a one as Mentor friend of mine. She shared that with me and that I was like, oh that's really sweet. And then as I actually became apparent I was like, oh no, I need to live and die by this because so many opinions so long everybody like people we even know but I hate this is how you should raise your kids. Like I know like I can't even tell you the weird messages. I would get on Facebook from people. I haven't talked to in years asking me about like vaccinations and diets and other things that I'm not going to mention here on the podcast. That was just absolutely ridiculous. Say, yeah, that's awesome. Well, Andrew and Anna man, I have such an appreciation for what you guys just been like I said been following along and so Anna you recently started a job. Cast called so what why don't you give us a little background on what inspired you to start this podcast and what are you hoping to accomplish? Yeah. So averse at Birth really lived by over the last several years is whoever so sparingly will also reap sparingly in whoever shows generously will also reap generously so as both a counselor in a master, I've had countless conversations with people where they find themselves in this spot where they're frustrated with the outcome or the circumstances of their lives. They wonder why they reap a pathetic results or low self-esteem or unhealthy relationships or their life is lacking passion and I always come back to this verse and so my goal in vision for so what is to offer The Listener practical and achievable if I could walk out there for a minute achievable like next steps. Like I'm not like this counselor or Pastor. That's like hey, like pursue Jesus and then don't give the next step like this is how long Do those things this is how we take care of ourselves. So I really wanted to be a conversation around practical and achievable next steps that lead to a life of purpose of self-care and really like fun. So right well, that's good. I remember when I was at Trader's Point. He PD Kinder who's now the lead pastor at Red Rock Church in Colorado. He talked about when we were having this staff meetings about our core values and he said look these core values they're fun to put on a wall. But if you don't have Keystone behaviors or habits that you are doing to live out these values, you'll never live them out. Right and a lot of times like you said, we will tell people pursue Jesus fine and follow Jesus live for Jesus love Jesus, but we don't give them actual Keystone habits the things that you do in order to exhibit living out for Jesus. Yes spot on and and that's where I find myself. So frustrated is because dead You know people are like I'm tired. I'm exhausted. Okay, let's talk about your sleep Habits Like, how are you sleeping? Like, you know God created sleep at the beginning of the world. God could have created a system and Eve with the inability to sleep that they could go non-stop, but he created it. So let's talk about it. So like the spiritual or you know, even just your family time like the Practical things. That's how we live out full healthy and when scripture says like Jesus came to give us life more abundantly like this is how we live in the life more abundantly, right? Oh, that's that's super good. Okay, so well, we're going to what we're planning on doing for. Those are listening is we're planning on breaking down the kind of the two core tenets of Anna's podcast. So what first part that we're talking about today is so intentionally and the next week, we'll talk about what does it mean to reap abundantly. So as we're talking about sewing intentionally today, I want you to First give us kind of like your definition of what that means. And then I want you to react to this quote by Bradley Bennett that I thought really encapsulates what you're trying to get after he said today is the father of tomorrow and today's challenges are the child of yesterday's decision. Just so good. So yeah Mantra or the anthem of my podcast is so intentionally reap abundantly and when I share this idea of sewing intentionally, I always want to be clear that I'm not saying that life experience or circumstance in your life, you know, they aren't out of your control that you can control all those things. You know, what I'm saying? Is that even with circumstances that were given a or places that we find ourselves in that we have the choice on what kind of choices we're going to make SO sewing intentionally means no matter where you find a job. South you have the ability to make choices and the thing is is what do you want to reap in your life? What kind of outcomes do you want to experience on a daily basis? What kind of tomorrow do you want? And that should mean that you have to so you have to make choices today that you're going to be happy with the results of tomorrow. So are you being intentional many followers of Jesus they live so passively and I I can be guilty of this too that we live so passively and we find ourselves in these spots we're off. We're just kind of letting life happen to us instead of being strategic. We're having some vision for our lives. So sewing intentionally means that you're going to apply the word of God to your life. You're going to be green big you're going to live by a vision for your everyday life because the choices you made today. I love that quote. It's going to be a part of your tomorrow like you can't expect them. Awesome, abundant peace filled joy-filled tomorrow if you aren't making the choices to have peace and joy today and so going back to 2nd Corinthians. 6:9 word says so spiritually reap sparingly. We can't expect too. So passively into our lives and then have these Divine or even god-honoring results. So you have to do it intentionally. And so I just like the question like what if we also did intentionally, like what would our lives look like? And what would the world look like as followers of Jesus if we all did this right? What what are tomorrow's look like so glad we're really I look at sewing intentionally as being strategic in your habits in your formations in your daily choices and your relationships and your relationship to yourself your relationship with God and then being able to expect this wonderful Abundant Life Falling following from it. Yeah, man that that's so good. I don't know about You Anna but I can literally pull up with a snap of a finger several seasons of my life where I was very disappointed. And in the season, I felt like I didn't achieve what I wanted to but when I look back on those seasons and why I didn't achieve cuz I'm a three on the indiagram. So achievement is here the cheaper it is like or when I look back on it. I realized me it's because I wasn't intentional about what I was sewing in those moments. I was charged Akai was lazy. I was I was complacent right and and say yeah, I got what I sow sparingly reap sparingly. Yeah. Yeah, and I think that's where you do have to like this is not just about being in the cheever or like getting like being success or hustled driven. This is more about I understand that like self care, but even like my work that I'm going to be dead. Strategic I'm not going to be a slop. I'm not going to live like the rest of the world around me. I'm going to make intentional choices each and every day that I'm going to be proud of the results that it produces in my life. Yes. Yes and this yeah, let me that's a great Claire clarification. Like I want to clarify for audience. We're not talking about anything in a year, you know Prosperity Gospel or God's going to do this. If you do this is literally about when Paul says if you sow sparingly you're going to reap sparingly the things that you put in, um, the things that you do if you do not do with everything you've got for the Lord then you can expect for there to be an abundance of joy and peace home page like the fruit of the spirits, right? Those are what we are reaping and don't do that. Well, then we can't be surprised when those things don't show up. Well, yeah spot on spot on dog. Okay. So is there any story or scripture maybe narrative in the Bible that that really to you Anna kind of shows off this idea of what it means to so intentionally. Yeah, so recently I've been studying 1st and 2nd Samuel and when I think about people who so intentionally in scripture, there's so many people but a story that's really caught my attention recently is Samuel the priest that we find throughout David and Saul story and not what I find. So interesting about him. So he's his mom couldn't get pregnant and then she gets pregnant so she dedicates him to the Lord. So he goes and lives in the temple with Eli and Eli has two sons happening in Phineas Gage and the Bible describes them as Rascals that are Scoundrels and they're significantly older than Samuel so he's like a priest and train And these guys are really supposed to show them the way the Lord but they are continuously making choices that dishonor God but what's so cool. Is that here is Samuel this young boy using to be faithful to God and honor him and do the things that nobody else is willing to do or wants to do and it says that in his time. Nobody was hearing from God or seeing visions from God and here he is just like what we can understand like a pre-teen a teenager. He hears from God and he begins to have this life more abundantly and God alone. I was seeing Niall to be a leader for his generation for his nation and he entered in the the lineage of Jesus, which is amazing. And so when I look young Samuel, there's so many times throughout his story where he could have diverted to what was easy. He could have sat back and watched, you know, saw, you know, make a mess of Israel, but he called them out. And he worshipped God in his time where people were far from God. He listened for the voice of God. He was still enough and he had the practices in his life where he could hear from God and God honored him and use him in a mighty way. So I look at him like man. He's so did intentionally for such a long time and he could live a life that was honorable and was useful for the kingdom. And so that's one story that I've been really hung up on is like God help me to have those smoke like that space in my life for you to work like that. But I've got to make the pre choices, you know to have that space for my for you to come on in Iraq. Yes. Yeah. No, that's that's good. I like that idea about in order to get those pre choices that we do those kind of as we said, you know, those are the those are the results that will happen. If we are making those decisions to be intentionally about what we intake and what we output. That's really good now. Closing the show here give us to the three things that you think would help the on, and Christian in you know, living their faith for Christ and their purposes and Jake in ways uncommon ways to practice this debt will help them so intentionally, so there's multiple things that come to my mind. But the first thing that I think is the most important is you need to know where you're at in order to know where you're going and and what next steps you need to take like so as easy or shallow, as this may sound reflection is key as followers of Jesus taking time every day and asking the Holy Spirit to search me and show me is a game-changer for me, right? Holy spirit search me. Where am I? Where am I what in me is not honoring you and show me which path to take show me where you want me to grow show me maybe some things in my life that I am. Completely blind to and so I would say that is a huge first step. If you want to know where you want to go where you need to so you need to ask the Holy Spirit to search you and show you to bring reflection. So you can know where you're going off and then another thing I talked about this and one of my episodes of so, what is the importance of setting specific priorities like our calendars in our lives are filled with things that honestly won't lead us to sewing intentionally most of the time like we find that our lives are just like crazy for the sake of being crazy and we don't have any real rain or purpose on the craziness. So setting specific personal relational recreational and work priorities. I have found is of the utmost importance for sewing intentionally in our everyday lives man. That's good. I like that. So if we want to know where we're going we have to know where we're at and setting specific priorities priorities for birth. We're we're we're going and we're we're at I like that. I like that Anna. Thank you so much for joining the show today. Thank you for having me. It's been fun. All right. Yeah superglue wage. Actually I'd like to for you to come back next week. That sounds great. I will be here. All right. Well, I want to thank you for listening today. If this was helpful for you, would you do me a favor a big favor and share this with others all should love it. If you would provide a positive rate and review wherever you listen to your podcast which will help this show reach more people and that's what it's all about. It's not about fame or popularity wage. This podcast is all about encouraging and inspiring every Christian to love Jesus and to live out their purpose and uncommon ways. Thanks for joining and we'll see you next week. Thank you for listening to The Uncommon Christian podcast with Michael Hinton for more information on today's topic this uncommon Christian podcast.com

Mrs. Anna McGuire Jesus Andrew Indianapolis Anna McGuire Michael Higdon Samuel Indiana Paul Parkside Church Anna I Wisconsin Traders Point Christian church Facebook Mentor friend Michael Akai Archie University Indianapolis IUPUI
Full Episode: Friday, September 25, 2020

20/20

1:20:04 hr | 8 months ago

Full Episode: Friday, September 25, 2020

"The last thing they would expect us to find. A suitcase. In human body in it. The big question is how the get. Crazy in love at first but it quickly became tumultuous. There were infidelities. They'd go back and forth they fight they like the drama of and the next thing coming of his mouth this when I get home, I'm going to kill you smash face in. He said was leaving and he wasn't coming. Were you ever angry enough to WANNA, see him dead. There were times I've wanted him gone gone doesn't mean. Dead and Melges said, well, I'm single mom now. And now I just gotTa get on with my life. Miserable. No. The next thing is we've got to figure out who did this to, and after I got off the phone I said, she did it. They couldn't find any forensic evidence whatsoever to establish that. This was a crime seat. Do you still insist that you're innocent? Absolutely. I. Still Feel like how could somebody think That I did that. I think she did not actually commit the crime. It turns out it isn't the end of this story. My name is Meghan Sacks criminologist at Fairleigh Dickinson University. In simplest terms criminology is the scientific study of what causes crime and how the criminal justice system. Response. To crime. Ridden about twenty, five true crime books over the years and I think many maguire is perhaps one of the most interesting ones and baffling. This is Melanie. McGuire arrested today minutes after dropping offer children in daycare. Melanie, McGuire a New Jersey nurse was accused of killing her husband cutting up his body and throwing it into the Chesapeake Bay. In two thousand, seven, what was being called? The suitcase murder trial was generating an enormous amount of media attention, not just in New Jersey, but all across the country three bazaar discoveries, three separate suitcases, all containing human remains the woman who is on trial for her very life. She says the real truth behind the crime has never been revealed with no history of violence and no apparent motive for murder. Could she really have done it? She was this beautiful young nurse and they were the seemingly normal middle class couple and the murder happened in such a grisly way. The idea that this beautiful nurse could have actually killed her husband and then cut him up is just incredible. Of course, they were salacious aspects. Maguire is a nurse and prosecutors say she had an affair with a doctor. She didn't fit the profile I. Guess of a murderer over the years and colleagues of ours have come to me and said, you know Melanie McGuire proclaims her innocence and to tell her story I started thinking Oh maybe there is a little more to this case than what you see on the surface and then the idea podcast came up and I was all in on direct appeal examined the murder conviction of Melanie, McGuire him following a highly publicized trial looking at the evidence that was presented and the evidence that may have seemed insignificant at the time before own conclusion about Melanie's guilt. We hear at ABC have our own history with the Melanie. McGuire case back in two thousand, seven ABC's Cynthia McFadden had the first on camera interview at the mother of two on trial for murdering her husband. Who was the Melanie? McGuire you hope to jury. knows. The one who tried to take care of everybody. Who didn't make the smartest decisions but admitted to those mistakes? To the people she trusted most. But. Did Not admit what what she's acute stuff. I have been incarcerated for twelve and a half going on thirteen years now. Do. You still insist that you're innocent. Absolutely. You're sitting here. A wrongfully convicted person. Correct. Absolutely and what have those years spend like? I tell people. It's not as bad as you think in some ways and it's so much worse than I could ever articulate in others. After all these years I. Still feel her I still feel bothered. I still feel like how could somebody think? That I did that. This whole saga begins on May. Fifth two thousand four with an odd discovery in Virginia Beach. Early morning a couple of fishermen and the kids are out on a boat by the Chesapeake Bay. Me and my friend Don Connors was going to go out fishing and we both had days off D. or Don. We Call Them D. said, keep his kids out of school. We're GONNA take him fishing. Everybody was excited. We went right out this bridge here. and to keep on going you run right in the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel. In the Chesapeake Bay Bridge tunnel is seventeen and a half miles long. It really is quite astonishing. It connects the eastern shore of Virginia to Virginia Beach has two tunnels, two shipping channels, and then once you get on the other side, you go North into Maryland Delaware New Jersey. So we went out there and anchored off a fisherman's island and we were just doing some vision. And suddenly one notices that the suitcases floated by. We'll the vote around pulled up alongside I. Immediately thought a poly blew off a car you know. Offered look luggage rack or something. D. and his son had reached over and we're trying to pull it up in. Had some weight to it. So I stopped above. Reached in and. Hold a thing been there. and. Laid it in a Florida boat. They found a dark green Kenneth Cole suitcase in pretty good condition that was apparently part of a luggage set of three. They put it on board and the little boy with very very excited. He thinks his buried treasure. So he wants to open it. The contents recovered with a thick trash bag. Hefty bag or something, and I said. I was a little bit nervous then when I saw the black bags in there. So to turn to say something to D, and while I was talking to d the young boy reached down and ripped open the plastic trash bags there was no doubt what it was a set of cumin legs. As a pair of smell legs from the knee down look very fresh and they recall horror. All. Down there said Oh my gracious. So. At. Closed bag back up. And Nine. One one. was out on patrol in Chesapeake. Bay. When I received a radio, call a main rain with him to meet me and transferred a suitcase over to my boat. I handed him the luggage and he seems surprised me he goes. What do you want to do that I said opening up? I was pretty shocked that never seen a suitcase with body parts in it before there really wasn't any smell they actually looked kind of fresh the first case being thousand big news You know common find by any means especially in this area, this is an alarming story. Everybody wanted to know who the man in the suitcase was. We kind of figured head of the other suitcases with other parts. After the initial shock of them finding the suitcase everyone wishes waiting for it. What was going to wash up next? Chesapeake. Bay Area. There's a lot of voters. There are bird watchers, their fisherman's island, a nature sanctuary. This is really kind of a a fun area. People are going there to relax they're going with their families. The last thing they would expect this to find a suitcase with a human body. It was the start of the summer tourist season, which is huge Virginia beach and getting that kind of negative publicity of bodies washing up in suitcases with something they did not need. Six days later, the student was on fisherman's island in the middle of the Chesapeake Bay, which is the nature preserve. And she saw a green. Kenneth. Cole. Suitcase is she was curious what could be contained inside and she actually pulled a little bit of the black trash bag out of the suitcase. There was such a strong odor of decomposition that she immediately stopped and notified the refuge workers the police they've been expecting this because after the I can if co back with. Her legs, they suspected there was going to be more. It was transported to the medical examiner's Office Norfolk, and that's where we actually viewed what the contents inside inside the suitcase would be the torso and the head of a male. The torso is still attached with the arms and the head the head was wrapped in what look like medical blanket the face was. Somewhat identifiable but it had been submerged for a while. So extremely bloated the medical examiner is able to determine that the victims been shot multiple times. There are a couple of gunshot wounds in the Torso area and one through the head. There were two bullets that were recovered from the body Wad cutter bullets and what our bullets are not typically used by the. Average person but they are used for target practice and it came very big local story. A student discovered a suitcase near fisherman island inside a human head getting a lot of coverage. It's the second suitcase in a week founder, the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel and the second one containing body punks and everybody was waiting for the rest of the body to turn up. The third suitcase was found on May sixteen, two, thousand, four in the water by a fisherman. He saw the suitcase floating in the water is third suitcase. It had been an award of the longest. Did have some growth on it from floating in the water for so long this case contained the pelvis. So from the waist down to above the knees authorities realized they have to figure out who it is anytime you find a unknown body. The first thing you're going to do is look into missing person cases to see if the profile matches anyone who's currently missing. Because of the naval base in the area, they're checking military records they're checking everything they can. Think of to figure out who this person is. One of the policemen working came up with the idea of getting scattered his do. Took photographs to our sketch artis and she was able to do a sketch for us and we eventually released it to the media we're hoping maybe this will give us a an edge maybe identify him sooner right now he's just John. Doe. May, the twenty first. suceeds the picture on TV of a sketch that they had done to find out who this person was sued epic getting out of the shower one morning the television was on and she was getting out telling all she looks TV. This is a sketch of the body that washed ashore near the Chesapeake Bay Bridge. Tunnel this. He belongs to somebody I. mean he's got loved ones links on my God that looks like built. Sue was pretty sure that it was bill McGuire. This is John. Rice. Bill Maguire's good friends bill and John had been friends since their early navy days doe was friends with sue as well. Melanie new sue the couples had vacationed together. To really coups her husband's take a look and he's not so sure it's bill but sues convinced it is fat and says please. Call. Crime Stoppers. He was very good friends with Mr. McGuire. He told me that Mr McGuire lived in Woodbridge New Jersey he was married to Melanie McGuire and they had two small children. He wanted to know more about the dynamics bill. Why thought it could be built and the only way that I thought it could bill is a yeah. He's missing to John Rice that spoke to Cindy Gosh who is William McGuire sister got a call from Cindy she said John. Billy. There and I said he's not what's going on. She's well Villain Melanie got an argument and he left and he hadn't been heard from. He said he was leaving. He wasn't coming back. My husband was full of bluster when it came to stuff like that he would say. All the time I didn't actually believe it was the last time I was ever going to see my house meant William McGuire had in fact vanished Mr Rice and his wife Mrs Rice eventually agreed to come down to the Police Department and Virginia Beach and view some photos. Bill had a little red mark right here. And that's what I kept zoning in on when I saw the picture. That's exactly what I zoned in on I. Mean I've known bill for twenty two years I kept seeing that and I was pretty certain that it was bill. Once we name and plots age, we ran them through our computer system. He ran a checked on bill McGuire and he found that Maguire had been arrested in Virginia for a reckless driving charge in one thousand, nine, hundred, eighty s his fingerprints were on file already, which made it a lot easier and they're very quickly able to confirm that the fingerprints matched the man in the suitcases was identified as thirty nine year old William McGuire of Woodbridge New Jersey. According to Melanie, she just thinks her husband is missing, but she is about to get the news that will change her life forever. I Scott I'm sorry to tell him. That Williams deceased. and. I just. I just burst into tears. Now they've sold the mystery of who the bat in the suitcase is. The big question is how the hell did he get there? and. MELANIA MAGUIRE! Story! Is! Centered around New Jersey They lived in the working-class part of New Jersey, where the Sopranos took place, which was passed the hottest show at the time. Molina's, Jersey girl. Born and raised their parents are Linda and Michael Cavallero. She's a great great daughter mother. Friend full of life fun. Loving of good girl never in trouble never in trouble always trying to help people. She's working in the restaurants in Jersey. She's a waitress and she met film of wire. He was also a server. Bills known as the root waiter because he would speak people up in a jocular way but they loved and they would ask for the reu waiter but was he like? Funny. Clever he had a big heart when he wanted to. He wanted all the right things. He was very, very loyal. He was a tremendous friend. When I first met though I didn't know what to make it because he was really practical joker and whatnot and I thought this could probably get on somebody's nerves with all. But he was so funny he just kind of covert. Whatever might have to? Melanie was a fertility nurse when I met her it's just so caring so. Nurturing she working with women who were going to really tough times trying to get pregnant she was very compassionate and her patients really loved her what major good nurse Taipei personality The way I looked at it. I. Was not going to be happy with anything less than the total comfort level of my patients. In Nineteen Ninety eight bill called John and I in told us that he wanted to bring melanie down to meet us. Melanie she she's a really nice person to be around physically. She's beautiful. She's very smart should love the same sense of humor that bill had. When Bill was making jokes Mel be right in there. He liked to Razz people she would razz them right back. He really was crazy about. What was your relationship with bill like in the beginning the beginning it was it was the challenge it was the chase. It was we we had a bit of a tempestuous relationship even before we got married, we would break up get back together going Melanie dated for quite a while they were crazy in love at first but it quickly became tumultuous. There were infidelities they'd go back and forth they'd fight I. Think they like the drama of I think she thought she could make a difference in his life I. Think she thought that she could. Maybe change him make him happy. She truly did love him. Nothing in there as. They got married in Nineteen, ninety nine. It was probably one of the most strata ghent weddings we've ever been to. Melanie on her wedding day. Look absolutely gorgeous Djelic just perfect both bill and Melanie seemed by couldn't have been happening. I. was marrying a girl that he absolutely loved in a way that maybe he had loved anybody before. Coming. Bill McGuire, got a sixty five thousand dollars a year job with New Jersey Institute of Technology Bill and Melanie settled into a rented townhouse in Woodbridge new. Jersey. Woodbridge is a sprawling densely populated township on the suburban of the jerseys industrial. Flatlands. If you're going down I ninety five, you're taking exit eleven to get off to woodbridge. We were both happy new parents. and. Things change drastically he had to personality he could be very likeable and then on the other hand, he'd be very calculating manipulate you. and. He had always had issues with gambling can he would go through periods where he? Down to Atlantic City. A Lot. There were times that he would just take off a C. N. Gamble and she just. Wouldn't hear from him would know what was going on. He found to could make some money gambling. There were good times with that and there were bad times and there were a couple tons of life down and I said that's it no more. So than he would get involved in the stock market. He wanted what he wanted. Any couldn't get it. Fast enough, and with that came frustration and eventually that frustration became directed at At me. There was one particular argument over the phone where he had gotten stopped for a traffic ticket. He had an absolutely atrocious driving record. So I started to argue back and the next thing coming out of his mouth is when I get home I'm going to kill you a smasher face in. It's very difficult for me to think back on it because I actually drove off in the middle of the night and I, I had left on state. Why did you stay? I wasn't strong enough to live. Did you love him I did I did and even though now at this point bear in mind I'm having an affair. Would appeal to you about Brad Miller he was just very, very tender. Tried to fight it, but I couldn't. I couldn't find it life. The Maguire's is getting a little more complicated and then one night it all erupts. Bill was probably the most street wise person I've ever known and I can tell you he never saw coming. Off. Melanie's loving. Caring. Funny. Consider it. We clicked right away. To. The point that I asked her to be my wedding when I got married. Love is always patient and kind. It is never jealous. Love is never boastful or conceited and is not resentful. Left takes no pleasure in other people's sins but delights in the truth. June two, thousand and one that Maguire's row already married for a few years. and. Even though there was some friction, the marriage melanie McGuire decided to have another child. Little. Does her husband know just how ill timed this pregnancy is not only melanie about to have their second child she's also having an affair. Dr Bradley Miller was a partner in RMA associates, and Melania, was working as one of his nurses he was so kind I'd come back to my desk after a long meeting with a patient and there'd be lunch sitting on my desk waiting for me. You know there was always a little bit of flirtation. Forth Melanie was about thirty eight weeks pregnant and things changed between her and Dr Miller. I was about to go out on maternity leave and I was sitting actually in his office at his desk. I just mentioned I have a pinched nerve in my neck and he put his hand on my shoulders and started to to rub my back. I tried to I really tried to fight it because this was not going to be good. This was not going to be good for anybody I couldn't I couldn't fighting. After Melanie came back from Maternity Leave Jin Dr Miller started a full blown affair and it seemed they will fully luck with each other although they were both married with young children. Shortly. After my second son was born, that's when things began to the final descent downhill if you will. Melania and bill moved to the Woodbridge apartment. This is a town home. They don't own it. They're renting it. He was constantly looking looking looking at homes. He wanted to end the buying a house before he turned forty you did want to move down here to Virginia Beach. We took pictures of houses in our neighborhood. Would not hear of. They ended up putting a really sizeable deposit down a very nice home in New Jersey. As a very nice house, I had quite a bit of land. It was half a million dollar home. It was very contradictory. She's becoming closer to up to minimum, but she's going along with bill's idea of buying a house. The marriage wasn't going well at all. So why were you buying this half million dollar house together then the idea for me was we had a chunk of money cash. That we were putting down on this house. In the past, we've come to points where we had been in similar situations. And he would. Ultimately something happen he would go and gamble the money away. I figure this at least was an investment. On April twenty eighth, they're due to close on the house at two o'clock in the afternoon and she's in constant touch with Dr Miller who's pleading with not to buy the house. He wants to be with Melanie and he sees a future life with her. And Melanie told him that you know not to worry about it. It's going to be okay I'll take care of it. After they closed on the house they go back to their rented townhouse billy. So excited he calls John Rice Jones said that he'd never been happier. The last person menander speech to that night is Dr Billah. She tells him look. We've closed on the house bills had some red wine. He's asleep on the couch. But when he wakes up, we're going to sort this out and I'm GonNa tell him I want a divorce. Melanie described the events that would happen later on as a big fight you bill had. A horrible fight yes. Correct. We fell asleep on the couch woke up early morning hours and. was never a bad time for an argument. Talking probably three or four o'clock in the morning it starts on the House I settled for that house. The hell are you talking about you settled for that house? It's a half a million dollar. That's not what I wanted. Melanie says that bill turned around and said what I really wanted was a house in Virginia for cheaper but you refuse to let us do that, and so I have to settle and she says this turns into a very heated argument. From there things became. More physical. How physical in what way it's he showed a dryer sheet in my mouth. He had a thing about dryer sheets destroyed that Melanie tells about a fight seems to escalate over a dryer sheet is the same story she told us back when we first spoke with her still arguing and there's laundry basket and there's dryer sheets hanging out of one of the baby sleeves. He hated the he thought it was lazy that I wouldn't stand there and put in the liquid fabric softener and Yeah. And it went out of control of this type of mother I was that I would leave this the sheet in there for my baby to possibly choke on a for I know what I'm up against the wall. And the dryer sheet is being shoved into my throat. and. Then he just smacked me in the face. Open hand because he probably would've broken my cheek if it had been a closed fist. I look down. There's my two year old. By grabbed the baby. And went to the bathroom right behind me and shut the door I just wanted away from him at that point. He said he was leaving and he wasn't coming back and I could tell my children why they didn't have a father did he say this to you through the bathroom through the bathroom door at the entire time? I imagine he was packing things in leaving keeps up and down the stairs a lot but every trip back and forth be grading. What's the last thing you remember saying to him stop? Stop. Melanie said he'd driven off and she presumably visit Atlantic City. He would have been back. Back I knew it. This isn't just a few days that bill McGuire is gone. We're talking weeks. What bothered me was that Melanie never reached out and said, hey, bills missing she never reported her husband missing and it's almost thirty days perfect that we never heard anything from her was deeply suspicious to me. Love is always ready to excuse to trust to help and to endure whatever comes love to come to an end. This is the word of the Lord. Morning hours of April twenty ninth to thousand four Melanie. McGuire said that she and her husband bill had a violent fight and that he left and she never saw him again Melanie says the next day she got her kids up she took them to daycare and she started trying to figure out how she was going to move on with her life without bill and during this. Next Day. Day After that the dam to that, you didn't hear anything from him. Did you try calling him directly? No because this is what used to happen when we fought. You know. I'd call whether it was to tell them off or to try to apologize what we just end up getting back into it again, I'm done now. I'm done. She retains a divorce attorney, and at this point, he does tell the divorce attorney that she has not seen her husband in a few days and according to Melanie. The attorney advised her not to file a missing persons report my heart broke for her. She didn't deserve nobody deserves that. But I told her that you know she needed to think about herself right. Nationals protect yourself. I called a business associate of mine who was an attorney she said you need to get a restraining order. Stay. Linda Lindmeyer. She had to go in front of a judge and give sworn statement about the incident that happened. Tell me what? Happened that brought you to court today for temporary restraining order. My husband and I closed on our first house on Wednesday. That should be a positive thing for yeah. It should He's been behaving really. erratically, you're safe here. Don't worry. Melanie explained to the judge how bill had been violent with her he Not Not until. I don't mean to sound like I had absolutely no miss I said Nice things and. Slapped me. As part of the questions meant he was asked by the judge if she owned any firearms, do you know if there's any weapons? Not to my no. This is a sketch of the body that washed ashore near the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel this month we're hoping maybe this will give us a an edge and maybe identify him sooner about a month ago spot between the time that bill disappears and when sue rise identifies McGuire after seeing the sketch on local TV the next thing police have to do is notify Melanie McGuire of the death of her husband Melanie was asked to come down to the police station. The came out. He says sure husband William McGuire. And I said yes and I'm sorry to tell you. That William Mr ceased. And I just. I just burst into tears. She never asked how bill McGuire murdered. They did not tell her how and the condition in which he was found that would be one of the first questions that I would ask. The next step was that the Virginia police wanted to speak with Melanie Melanie agrees, but she brings her divorce attorney with her and another criminal attorney in that practice. Conducting an interview with the victim's. Wife to attorneys present is highly unusual. First Time I have ever had that happened to me. She was nervous. She was visibly shaking. She made expressions like she was crying but she never. Had a tear in her on. I asked her if she had any luggage and she informed us that they didn't have any matching luggage. The next day Melanie told detectives she suddenly remembered that the Maguire stood on a magic set of designer luggage. I showed her a picture of one of the pieces of luggage that we recovered and the bay and she identified that as belonging to them. They asked what kind of person bill was and she said he was the kind of person that had an act for pissing people off. She asked us were did we find her husband's vehicle at? I told her at that point. We hadn't found her husband's vehicle and she said that. Probably. A good place to look would be Atlantic? City New Jersey. She also informed us that her husband had a a gambling problem to get involved with the wrong people. That's what I would have to believe that he had gotten himself into some think and bill always thought he could handle everything. He was always into some kind of deal. So I, I, think maybe this deal. was his last deal. After, the interview was done. That evening We also conducted a search at their old apartment building the apartment was empty she had already moved out. They asked about bills, possessions and his closed. Discovered that. Maguire had already given all of her husband's belongings away. Virginia Beach Detectives find out the Melanie McGuire had given most the bills belongings away to a French cousin, and they wanted to track that man down eventually they didn't found out that most of the bills clothing was still in black trash bags much like the bags that contains Bill Maguire's body parts. The garbage bag by site looked identical. Things are starting to make sense with the detectives. There's black bags and there was also the hospital blanket. The head was wrapped into and they're thinking women. Andy Maguire is a nurse. That's kind of A. Coincidence. At Melanie suggestion detective start to search Atlantic City for bills, car and Molin behold that's exactly where they find it. Atlantic City forensic unit processed Mr Maguire's vehicle. They took photos they fingerprinted they vacuum clean the floorboards. The body was released to Melanie on a Tuesday immediately, she had him cremated. And the funeral lasted all of. Ten to fifteen minutes at the most. She called the following evening after the funeral and at that point, I just Kinda. Blasted her. I told her I said Melanie. Bill deserves so much more and Melges said, well, I'm a single mom now. And now, I've just got to on with my life. I said we'll know the next thing is we've got to figure out who did this to, and after I got off the phone I remember hanging it up and John she did it. She did it. Everything pointed to. Literally. Maguire. Through wiretapping her phones, the police discovered the relationship that she was having with Dr Miller. Eureka moment because it provides moti. But. Just. called. In What's the last thing you remember saying? Stop. People. Like to believe that someone was capable of committing this type of murder accused of putting up his body and throwing it into the Chesapeake Bay that the person did that would look like a monster but. Sometimes. Killers look just like melanie wire. Which? was conducted. A lack of evidence. The evidence in this case points to a well organized. Leslie planned execution of a murder computer searches that said murder someone how to poison someone basically multiple searches about how you kills. I don't get to be an evil genius in an idiot at the same time I believe that Melanie was. Promptly connected. What do you think killed your husband? Melanie McGuire once a married mother to two little boys, and for tilleke nurse is today a forty seven year old inmate at the Edna Mahan Correctional Facility in Clinton New Jersey. In here, guilt and innocence is irrelevant data day life. I have six numbers and a letter after my name, the same as the woman on one side of the same as the woman on the other side of me. After Virginia Beach exhausted their investigation. They realized wall signs pointed North to New Jersey. My name is Patty presidio. So I was the lead investigator in the Melanie McGuire Investigation and Prosecution Pat. was a very driven and highly successful Assistant Attorney General in New Jersey you led the evidence guy and you follow it until it's clear. What happened? She was extremely competent and it was obvious. The task. Force had local police state police the attorney. General's office they decided to treat this case with top priority. It was clear that he had been shot and trying to find out if any of the people close to bill owned a gun was a top priority. Sectors don't find any record of Melanie by Gum in New Jersey. So they decide to check Pennsylvania. They knew that Pennsylvania was close on a lot of people will go to Pennsylvania for firearms because the gun laws are more relaxed, there's less of a waiting period, and so you can go in and essentially walk out the same day with a firearm. It turned out that when the record check was done with Pennsylvania a record came back that Melanie McGuire purchased a gun. I remember playing this day when she came in because. Not many women come into the shop. She filled the forms out. And then when she will down here occupation she was a nurse that stuck in my mind because. That was the first time. I ever sold the gun to an. Melanie bought a Taurus thirty eight special and she bought Wad cutter bullets and that gun was purchased just two days before Melanie McGuire said her husband went missing. And Remember early on Virginia, detectives talk to Melanie and she never mentioned anything to them about buying a gun. I had informed my attorneys of the purchase of a gun and they said well, you know if they ask don't lie and but don't offer any information. They never asked about a gun. Melanie bought the gun because bill wanted her to buy the gun. She could get it. He wanted it. What he wanted got because Bill McGuire had a felony conviction stemming from his horrendous record he was barred from purchasing firearms. You say your husband asked you to purchase the gun, but you purchased a gun just two days before your husband went missing. Of course it's a coincidence. However, he was on me for a while about that about trying to get that and if something was happening if he was in some sort of trouble that may very well have been. The reason why he was so intent on on getting it. Wants the police really honed in on Melanie they began wiretapping her phones. Surveillance was so intense that over a forty day period, they recorded five hundred hours of her phone calls every time he had up water. Hand reaches them down the grave. Those are very cryptic. Hey how you doing I spoke to What's his name about? I didn't WanNa say name the understand what I'm saying. Yup to use the phrase a lock. Of being cut off at the knees at least meet with lawyer ahead of time it off at the knees. day-to-day doesn't matter what it looks like. She was a little salty that was her personality. She was a Jersey girl and lot of them were to her boyfriend Rodney Minna. Clear right from the beginning that the relationship with Dr Miller was different. There was a change in her voice. It was a a softer tone. It's Eureka. Mola. When they realized that she's having a fair because it provides motive. Dr Miller also becomes a suspect. So one night when Dr Miller was leaving work he was going to his car. The detectives came out to confront him. Dr. Miller was adamant that he had nothing to do with any crime and he didn't know anything about this and so I think the police said will prove it. You know if you're willing to wear a wire, we'll believe you. Biz Now, two thirty PM. May Thirty, first two, thousand and five spread. Miller making an alcoholic call to Melanie. McGuire. Every. Monday, just Tom. Mean if you want to stick together, I got to know everything. Before this goes any further wanting me. Every night. It's between now. And I. Swear. In those intercepted phone calls and other friends she was speaking to was Jim Finn. Now. Only met Jim Finn in Nursing School and Jim Admittedly had a crush on Melanie. Once, she left nursing school. She never talked to him again. You know that was it until February two, thousand four and she suddenly got in touch with him again when she needed something, he was someone that you know she could manipulate and she knew he was a lover of guns, the police also. Jim Fen because they find that before bill disappeared, she's been talking to him about the firearms. She said to him hey I need to talk to you. There's some weird stuff going on here and bill is acting weird Jim who really still holds a torch Melanie amenity knows that says, well, maybe you should get a gun to defend yourself. Investigators pick up Jim Finn who also allows them to record his conversations with Melanie, and once to hear what's on those calls they're satisfied fin knew nothing about the murder. At the time the detective spoke to Jim Fan, he had no idea that Melanie McGuire had purchased a gun. he was surprised. Truck don't. Melanie never wavers on whether it's not she was involved. It is always a hard. No. She was under Obama microscope everything she did was being watched everything she said was being listened to Melanie does something that most people would find a little suspicious rescuers start looking at her easy past records they notice trips to Atlantic city. She knew that Bill Maguire's car was in Atlantic City because she put it there that requires two drivers. So that means someone helped her. What investigators find in Atlantic city has them wondering did Melanie have an accomplice and if so who was it? The next set of clues in the mystery of WHO Killed Bill McGuire leads investigators to a one hundred, seventy mile stretch of toll road the Garden State Parkway. With Melanie. Now, the prime suspect detectives start pulling her records. They try to track her movements in the days around her husband's disappearance, and one of those is her easy pass statement. So when investigators started looking at her easy pass records they noticed that there were charges for two trips to Atlantic city. On April thirtieth two thousand, four, just two days after the fight Melanie said that she and bill had. Melanie does something that is very odd and most people would find a little suspicious. I'm starting to become more actively angry at him and I'm thinking son of a bitch, I know our hands. According to Melanie she decides that he's probably in Atlantic city gambling. So she's GonNa drive down there and she's going to look for his car. Absolutely, not rational but get in the car and go down there. And I'm driving now and I take the I pass on this highway and I see a dark sedan. There's no way. There's no way. and Lo and behold there it is. Once, Melanie spots bills car from the highway she decides is to move his car. Melanie you says in the past when they're angry at each other, it's a way of messing with each other I guess you could say. pull off onto a little side street I parked my car and it was like mission impossible scooted up to the car. Got Him started. Enjoyable. and. Would you put it on what I believe to be the Flamingo Hotel what Melanie said was I was going to move his car to seediest part of town the most annoying for him to find. That just didn't make any sense that he was physically abusive to her with this. She goes to mess with a car with a guy that she claims she doesn't want to be around it sounds beyond ridiculous sitting here saying and I acknowledge that I can't. You know it's the truth. It's an incredible story meeting just because. We believe she was planting his car in Atlantic City. She was trying to create an illusion that bill McGuire was still alive. That requires two drivers. So certainly that means someone helped her. Someone had her pathfinder and she was driving Bill Maguire's car. They put the car the Flamingo. Hotel, and then she went home with the person driving her car. And investigators thought they'd struck pay dirt discovered that hotels parking lot had surveillance cameras in truth. Of course, the footage did not capture who the driver was the surveillance video from the Flamingo Hotel actually showed the victims vehicle. Being pulled into a parking space because of the darkness and the Glare and the background lights, you could not actually see the person that was occupied. There is another inexplicable road trip this time to Delaware five days after her husband went missing. She had shared with Dr. Miller. That in the early morning hours of May fourth, she was actually furniture shopping investigators. Think this Delaware furniture trip is really just a ruse. The same road would have taken her to the Chesapeake Bay bridge, tunnel normally someone would take the New Jersey Turnpike to go over the Delaware Memorial Bridge picking up route thirteen, which runs south to the Chesapeake Bay Bridge and tunnel. Patty precio- says Melanie. Actually left the night before from New Jersey, drove bills remains to Virginia. We believe that that was when she took the suitcases with bills remains. Of them in the Chesapeake Bay. And the first suitcase turned up the very next day. But of course, Melanie thinks this theory is preposterous. Virginia beach is another four hundred and fifty miles from Delaware. So I mean you're talking about hours and there just isn't enough time. Why would she drive the we down to chesapeake with the body parts in the corn? Thinking, I'm not going to get stopped I'm not going to break down on a chance then is. I mean you can't stop on a bridge and open the window and throw three suitcases now. Maybe. If it was one of these pieces of circumstantial evidence for which you might have a reasonable explanation for one or two, but we're talking. A. Large Amount You can't have resort for all of. Its a mountain and it's a lot of coincidences and that's Absolutely coincidences don't always make for the best evidence and detectives were still searching for any physical evidence that would link Melanie McGuire to her husband bills murder. Where's the proof? Where is the forensic evidence? Taskforces convinced that bill was murdered and dismembered at their townhouse in Woodbridge so they concentrate on that. They went back to five times to search for any evidence they did everything that you would typically think of right they brought an aluminum all down parts of the walls they've pulled out the piping floorboards it really turned this place upside down a number of times would try to find bullets faces a large at knocking you. Couldn't find any forensic evidence whatsoever to establish that this was a crime scene. I don't know how you would dismember body and effectively. Clean that up. Despite that glaring lack of physical evidence investigator still believed the circumstantial evidence is enough and they arrest Melanie McGuire. So surreal. Any other. The, kids off to take care. We surveilled her to the school waiting for her to drop her children walking out of the building. I'm not even off the curb Melanie McGuire, you come with US please. I know. Years and ten months after the first suitcase washed up the trial against Melanie, McGuire commences in Middlesex County and it was a sensation. The evidence will show that while bill wasn't roast in purchasing the House the defendant was very busy planning his death there no proof that were. Murdered, her husband prosecutor said either Melanie McGuire is guilty or she's the unluckiest woman. A Monday march fifth two, thousand, seven, two years and ten months off to the first suitcase of washed up in the Chesapeake Bay Melanie McGuire went on trial for. First degree murder was case that had garnered a lot of media attention to New Jersey. And it had all the elements that was going to be a salacious trial. The judge might US know that the trial was going to be televised in? Let's bring a couple of experts into the conversation to help us sort through yesterday's evidence. It made people act differently I think Melanie loved the idea that she was the center of attention she seemed very relaxed much more relaxed than I would have done. A double edged sword. Because if she sat there, you know more. So Eric, she looked nasty or she looked mean and then when she was being more UPI and talking to people are well, you know she's joking around her own trial. There, was nothing she could do that wasn't going to be criticized. By the time Melanie McGuire trial she's hired Stephen Toronto. Tax Pena to represent her Joe Taka Pena was a high profile celebrity attorney. Peanut. Me Now, Joe Pena he's the attorney for Alex Rodriguez. He feels just as comfortable in front of a TV camera as in front of a jury scorched Earth investigation conducted. Lack of evidence is resounding. The evidence in this case points to a well organized meticulously planned execution of murder. was that a fair description of you were use somebody if you were going to do something, you were going to do it all the way. Correct. And I would counter that argument with if that's the case, then I would have been short and not include blankets that could be traced to me my own luggage I don't get to be. An evil genius and an idiot at the same time. They're not gonna be able to tell you. We're we're in virus. How. He was killed when he was killed defense were really trying to play to the jury that bill was a major gambler and he may thousands and thousands of dollars a big gambler because he gambled beyond his means when you have money out on the street and you're behind, you're not making payments. You know what happens you get shot here and you get shot here. As prosecutors start laying out what they believe. Melanie McGuire did to build it all starts with something they found in his car after it was processed in Atlantic city. When investigators I recovered bills car, they found a bottle of floral hydrate a red liquid. And also a syringe in it. States, it nine, eighty, three. Do you recognize that yes that's the bio we dispense liquid. Coral. Hydra is have you ever heard the term Slip Somebody and Mickey? It's Mickey. It's what it is. It's almost like a knockout truck. They do a lot of investigating on this chloro- hydrate at eventually they find out that it was purchased good mooning the bill disappear somebody dropped off this prescription for Clara, hydrate at the Walgreens pharmacy I'm which is just down the road from where Melanie's children went to preschool but the prescription pad was that of Dr Brad Miller who is Melanie boss So the light bulb goes off on their thinking right away. Clearly, Melanie had access to this prescription pad. She used it. She filled it chloride hydrate was necessary for this defendant to have control and even more. Importantly, it was necessary to her that. Bill. McGuire had no control. Dr Miller looked at the prescription and he said that's not my signature and it appears to be Melanie Maguire's handwriting prosecutors also focused on what they said Melanie was doing in the days before her husband's disappearance for that they looked at the Maguire's home computer. We had it forensically examined and it really was just astounding seeing what the Internet searches were four. Can You describe? Searches that you recovered. How to purchase guns illegally How to commit murder and undetectable poisons was searched with didn't look good. It looked like someone was searching how to. Sedate someone or to kill them, I'm a nurse I was a nurse. And I don't need to look up things like that. If I wanted to look for something like that I have a PDR physician's desk reference I have a book that I can look in that doesn't leave an internet history, but both Melanie and bill use this computer. So it's really hard to figure out who was searching these things. Now. You, have absolutely no idea of knowing who actually conducted the search that you talked about. No I don't. One of the things that we can say for certain this, your husband didn't commit suicide he didn't shoot himself or is able to. Carve his own body up. And yet there's a suggestion. From the defense. That some of the online searches where things and he was in factory not that you would. It wasn't me? Although investigators found no physical evidence in the Maguire's home that did find something significant and Bill Maguire's car after bills car was recovered in Atlantic city our criminalist was able to locate several pieces of small flesh. These pieces of flesh are an artifact of. Bill McGuire body being articulated the phrase was fused. Human. Saw Dust and human sawdust dust as term that did not exist until this case as I understand it. Found particles. that. To me look like it could be possibly human tissue. DNA results indicated that the flesh belong to bill McGuire what this really was was a few pieces of microscopic skin cells that were a little bit deeper than the skin we passably shed. Couldn't those tissues tissue that you looked at be shed from a live human being it cannot be shit from live human being it's not typical shedding process and all. Their theory was that this nurse who was kind of so meticulous had somehow just forgotten to the bottom of his shoes. That she accidentally trapped these even. Particles bills body from the house of the car. Thank you. Your honor that were eighty one witnesses and seven weeks. Good Morning Dr Miller. Dr Miller was the testimony that everyone was most anticipating. He was going to be the Big Star of the trial lawyer was having an affair and my whole life turned upside down. You in love with the defendant. Next witness. State. Calls Dr Bradley Mela. The most anticipated day of this trial is when the man who Melanie McGuire had three year affair with Dr Bradley Miller took the stand everybody knew that that was the prosecution's star witness and the court was filled. When you saw him. What was your feeling? How could you? Dr Miller was in a very difficult spot. He and his family had gone through a very difficult time and it was just made clear to him. Just take a deep breath and make sure you tell the absolute truth. Can you describe to the jury? What was your relationship with her we worked together she's a excellent nurse took very good care of the patients they all loved her surged their comedy time. When your relationship with Miss McGuire got more intimate. Yes it. It. Towards. The end of her second pregnancy, she was about thirty eight weeks pregnant. and. Before she went on maternity leave. We had sex now. So not proud of that. It has to be pretty hard to hear it come up and core. Hard for me to hear it hard for me to think Oh. My God my parents are hearing this my eighty four year old grandmother is hearing this. Were you in love with the defendant? Had the two of you discussed future plans together? Yes. We were hoping to be together in the future. With Dr, Miller on the stand prosecutors were able to score some points because there were certain things that Melanie never told document. Did the defendant ever tell you that she purchased a gun. A No knowledge of her purchasing. Did the defendant ever tell you that she went to Atlantic City and parked her husband Bill's car at the Flamingo Hotel no she did not did their comma time when the defendant shared with you that she had done that. Yes. In after why tell me this sooner and And she told me that she didn't want me to be upset that she's going back to find build bring him back. Rekindle. The relationship we looked very closely a Dr Miller. There was no evidence connecting him with this crime. This is in reference to consensual recordings between Brad Miller and Melanie McGuire. You agreed to consensually record a conversation with the defendant. Prosecutors really wanted the jury to hear those intercepted calls. So they could get a sense that maybe her desire to be with him was the motive for the murder doing the coups, Dr Miller spoke about their future together probably prompted by detectives. Stories. Understanding. Between US had always been that the children came first and he starts talking about divorce and future and moving forward, and I even say on the tip way talking like this whole sudden. Defense was also able to score some points those recordings which called into question Doctor Miller's character. At the time of the secret recordings he was still having an intimate relationship with her. If you tape recorder her Sir then had additional. Relation correctness. Detail of that by the way that you said tape reporter no, I did not. I think that was damaging to his character and was a very big turn off to the jury. Ever had contact again with. Dr, Brad Miller. After the day he testified haven't laid eyes on him since you have no desire. It's It's tough. That was tough betrayal to to swallow. What matters is whether the state and the burden is on me and I welcome it whether the state has proved each and every element beyond a reasonable doubt. When you combine the computer searches the prescription for choral hydrate on prescription pads that the defendant used, and then you have the victim found inside their matching luggage, the bullets consistent with the gun, but she purchased. A mountain of evidence. There's no question in my mind that she did it. I also don't believe that she acted love. Now who helped her told the jury that there was a very, very good chance that Melanie had an accomplice. Although he was never charged investigators took a hard look at Melanie. Stepfather. Michael Caporetto. The prosecutor needed somebody. So they focused in on me anything they wanted we gave them. We. Gave Them DNA. We gave him hair samples. I had nothing to do with anything involving that crime. You don't the precise when. You don't need the precise where. You don't have to find that. She pulled the trigger. You don't have to find that. She had hands on physically in regards to his death. Well, boy that's. Of speculation out there for the jury and you can't guess someone. Into prison throughout their life. The jury goes in to deliberation and melanie in our family are waiting on pins and needles. I was very concerned. I think we all as people. Like to believe that if someone was capable of committing the type of murder that the person who did that would look like a monster but. Sometimes killers look just like Melanie McGuire day the verdict was read the atmosphere in the courtroom was just electric has the jury reached a verdict in this case. Yes Jar. How'd you find us at the count of the indictment charging Melanie McGuire with the murder of William McGuire. Guilty. I just remember seeing her collapse. I. Remember grabbing jobs arm and I remember feeling my legs just kind of go out from under me. She's alternating between I didn't do it I didn't do it and my babies my babies. And referring to a two children. In, court finds that the maximum sentence should be imposed. Melanie is sentenced to life in prison plus five years. We're GONNA fight on. This is a definite setback. This is around one. This is not the end of the story. This is episode fourteen direct appeal. A reasonable doubt and thanks to these two professors, turn podcasters it turns out it isn't the end of this story. Convertible amount of weep without. After sentencing Melanie, McGuire was taken to the Edna Man Correctional Facility in Clinton. New Jersey. Her new home would be a six by nine foot so Just beginning for us now. We'll never get up. We will never ever give up for her. Until the truth comes out. On direct appeal, we examined the murder conviction of Melanie McGuire. Prepaid call from Melanie McGuire. An Inmate Aunt Edna million collection facility. All right obviously Melanie's been convicted. She's exhausted all of her appeals at this point. So how did the idea for this podcast come about? Melania McGuire was looking to speak with someone about her story because she had done really poorly in the court system and I think she was frustrated and after visiting with her the first time I was like this is a story. This is important. Worst, what I got was just one step shy they give verdict parole eligible at the age of one hundred. It was very difficult. It was reliving it. This was the first time somebody was basically saying. We hear you. Would you say, let's get to the juicy part. I want to know do you think she is innocent or guilty in the end? I believe that Melanie McGuire was wrongfully convicted so you believe an innocent woman is behind bars right now. Absolutely. I believe this is a case of a wrongful conviction. So, let's talk about some of the questions you raised in your podcast. Let's begin with the gun. The gun to this day has never been recovered. One of the key witnesses for the prosecution was a forensic ballistic expert. These are to discharge Bolliger refer to as a thirty eight caliber lead WAD cutter bullet. Is it possible that the gun melanie bought? Is Not actually the murder weapon I think it's probable no-one plugged serial number of my gun. Into a website to find out what the specifications were. Apparently each gun make something called lands and grooves. Landing groups are rifling characteristics that are a machine pressed into the barrel of a gun and the bullet passes through the barrel. The same number of lansing groups are going to be imprinted essentially onto that bullet. There were five lands in groups that my weapon was said to have made based on the company's website. The bullets that came out of my husband had six lanes groups. It was a mistake on gum manufacturer's website. We were not gathering evidence from a gun manufacturers website. The evidence that was at trial was from ballistic experts. But the website was updated. It was after this trial to incorporate the possibility. Six have five or six. I thought that was questionable I think it's very questionable that four years historically, it says one thing and then it's updated right after. Let's talk about the garbage bags. The prosecution had an expert said, that's the garbage bag in which bills body was found in was consistent with the garbage bags I came from Melanie's apartment. You can see these lines here is a straight line here this sort of smooth line. There's also two other lines close together. Basically, the exact same position listened to Kate's that these two bags were made at the same facility on the same line with a very close proximity of time. He ran tests but he didn't do all tests that you actually need to definitively say whether these bags matched even his own data shows that they probably weren't the same ex-. Well, there always other tested can be done in any analysis based on the testing we had conducted on the results that I observe I felt competent at that time to conclude that the bags were produced during the same run they put on a really good show and I think when you have props to guard bats allow those do look alike. And so what the jurors are listening to sounds like fact when in reality, it's just someone's expert opinion. There is something else that significant that you think the jury should have heard more about it was found inside those suitcases. If you look through the lab reports page upon page upon page white hair brown hair black hair animal hair think that's indicative that there is animal hair where the dismemberment took place of bills body. You mentioned that you found some animal hairs. Did you find anything that you consider evidential value? No they looked high and low to connect Melanie to some pet and once they found that there was no way to connect. Melanie. To these pet hairs, it became not of evidentiary value. Why is that? Simply because they don't match your suspects, those hair should have been tested because that's a huge question. Mark Melanie did not incapacitate shoot. US A saw to dismember her husband harder to cut through bone. It is physically exhausting, and also if the crime scene didn't happen there and she's home with her children all night. What where is this happening? There are just too many holes in this story in this case, with the mountain of evidence against her and a very complex plan I submit to you. It's amazing. We know as much as we do. This was a murder trial. It wasn't a contest to see who could outsmart. The investigators and if someone is smart enough to successfully hide a crime scene that they win did you find any evidence that exonerates melting that proves her innocence? I wish we did I had hoped. We would I still think that we might get a tip in that direction. What do you say to the people at home who watch system say how dare she talked from prison and bring this all back again enough pain is already befallen her husband's family her own sons. There's a murderer walking around even if we discount. What's happened to me? The killer is out there. and. It's not me. She had about as good. A council as money could buy. She certainly had a fair and impartial jury and the fact of the matter is sometimes the evidence is such that your attorneys no matter what you can pay them they simply cannot overcome what you've done. So she can say whatever she wants she's a liar, she's a killer. Today, or boys or young men they are. Is there anything you'd want to say to them? There will always be questions about this case that we may never have the answers to like if Melanie McGuire did kill her husband. Why did she drive more than three hundred miles to get rid of his remains in the Chesapeake? Bay. His friend John Rice has theory. BILL DID WANNA move down here on the Virginia Beach. After a time, he gave up on that idea. So it almost seemed like of the thing on her part. To drive him down Oh you WanNa go to Virginia Beach here here you got Why was it important for you to tell the story on your podcast? A lot of people were convicted. They'll go through the appeals process, but they won't prevail. If we can investigate this provide any type of assistance were possibly remedying some of the harshest parts of our system. There are times when podcasts and media can shine a light where what the government did was not right. This is not one of those cases a thirty, nine year old man lost his life before he got to see his children grow up. To little kids. Yep. That is that's the hardest part knowing that. When I see my children when I hug them goodbye. You could be the last time. Ultimately the courts would award custody to bill sister. Cindy La- Gosh Melania has had no contact with them. Today your boys or young men they are. Is there anything you'd want to say to them? Make up your own mind. Don't. accept. What you're just being told on the surface dig what is your level of hope? That one day you might walk out of here. I'm terrified hope because to have it forwarded in here. It just. It's absolutely soul-crushing. Phil McGuire was the father of two small children. He he was a brother. He was a friend and his life got cut short I. Think Bill Deserves Tilburg remember as a fantastic. Had Web is his voice? He didn't disturb this nobody. Deserves that no one.

Melanie Melanie Melanie McGuire bill McGuire Melanie Maguire Bill New Jersey Dr Bradley Miller Atlantic City Virginia Beach Virginia murder Chesapeake Bay Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel attorney melanie wire McGuire William McGuire John Chesapeake Bay Bridge
EP 14 Reap Abundantly with Anna McGuire

The Uncommon Christian Podcast

21:12 min | 7 months ago

EP 14 Reap Abundantly with Anna McGuire

"Hey everyone. Thank you so much for tuning in today for episode number 14. We're concluding a series called. So what the series is all about understanding how we can so intentional seeds and our everyday life and the results of that is reaping the fullness of God's purpose in our lives today. I am joined Again by local church pastor counselor and the host of the Soul podcast Anna McGuire for part too. Well, here we go. This is the uncommon Christian podcast with Michael Hinton. Well, hello guys, welcome back to the on, and Christian podcast. I am again joined by none other than Pastor counselor and podcaster off and it would wire. Hey guys, so excited to be back for another week. That's so good. Last week was so good Anna. We had to have you back forget. I'm really awesome and super thankful for that. So for those of you who did not get a chance to listen to episode number 13, I would tell you to pause this episode right now. Okay, just pause it will be fine. We'll be here go back listen to episode 13. It is so good. And it kind of gives you some of that opening things about Anna and who she is and what she does but just really could just give us a quick overview of what you do and your family. So I live in Indianapolis. I have the honor and privilege of serving on the Pastoral team at home. Church plant called Parkside Church, I help with the discipleship process and Leadership and a couple of other things there. I'm also a school counselor. I have a podcast and wage and married to the hero of my life Andrew Maguire and we have a baby boy named Archie Archie and I love how I've seen you say that on your Facebook before that Andrew your husband. Is Choi hero of your life and I'm always like man. I told my wife to Erica. Can you start referring to me as a hero of your she said? No. Yeah, He really is the hero of my life like he walks in integrity and humility but has us like amazing confidence. And when I think of people who most look like Jesus in the year that we like in this time in this season of crazy chaos and everything it's him and so he he's my hero. That's awesome. That's so awesome. I wish I could send this. Well, he'll listen to this and go here that and get some brownie points and all those good things. Yes. So Anna started a podcast called off. So what and it's basically the premise is that if we so intentionally will be able to reap abundantly in everything that we do not just like Prosperity but just in life and in general so and once you give us a just a quick recap of last week's episode we talked about the first part of the premise which is so intentionally. Yeah, so so intentionally is about this truth that we find in Scripture that if we sow sparingly we're going to reap sparingly meaning if we make choices that are just kind of odd like that are passive and apathetic then we're going to get passive and a pathetic results in our life. But if we so abundantly in generously into our lives and in fact Nationally, that's the word. I've always come back to that. We look at our lives and we have a vision for our lives and we have an outcome. We want to work towards then when we do those things when we make choices that is really brief lead to the outcome. We want then we're going to have results that we enjoy which is a life of purpose like the peace like a passion and I think a life of fun as well. Yeah. That's that's so good. I was thinking to myself, you know, I was looking at my season currently that I'm in and I'm thinking man, how as I was listening to your broadcast. It's like well how how am I am showing intentionally, what are the things that I am doing currently in my life right now? Whether it's my marriage or my parenting my own as you talk about on your podcast self-care my spiritual life how what are the things that I'm doing too? So the intention of seeds so that I can you know, see the fruit of my labor and birth For through Christ in everything and I think that I I would think that's a constant evaluation. Yeah. Yeah, like you have to you know our lives I firmly believe as a counselor and a pastor that we are never stagnant like, you know, people are like, you know, I'm just like I'm just here and I believe that you're always either moving forward or you're slowly declining and I believe that yeah, you have to like continuously look at your life and saying where am I at? And where do I want to be next week a year from now, but I think a big thing is right now, where am I right now? What am I thinking through right now? What am I processing? How are my relationships? And then from there you can make the choices. Once you click on where you're at. You can make the choices that will lead to that life of abundance. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's really good. Really good. Okay. So today we're talking about the product last week you talked about wage. It means it's so intentionally So today we're talking about the product of showing intentionally when we so with intentionality we can and will reap abundantly. What does that mean to you and and explain the connection from sewing to reaping? Yeah. So one of my favorite verses that I I just love all of the Harvest verses in scripture like wage. If you I've been using these verses honestly for years and then just like one day the idea of Soul of games. So that's the side note but Galatians 6:7 it says do not be deceived. God cannot be mocked a man reaps what he sows was and you know, we hear that we think it's like, oh like a, you know, some kind of proverb actually it's like scripture and one thing I discovered during I saw I was pregnant with the majority of Summer of 2019. I had my son Archie in February of 2020. One thing I discovered. I knew I was like them is that I was like a major fan of oatmeal cream pie. I love those know I I literally haven't had one in forever. And then one night. I had one at small group. I think it was and then it like woke me up to like oatmeal cream pies all over again. That's all I I am not kidding when I say I was addicted to them during my pregnancy and after my pregnancy, I'm gonna make it kind of embarrassed about it. It'll be embarrassed. Those are so good. There came to a point where I was eating like three or four of them a day and you would think like I had the baby and then like that stopped off know like I after I had Archie I was still eating three or four actually there was one day I ate an entire box and I was like, this is not good. And so initially it really did not make me feel sluggish you're tired particularly after having Archie, but after doing that for a few weeks, I began to start feeling like really off and then I started to realize how much sugar I was dead. I mean now just was oatmeal cream pies, but it was making me like crave more unhealthy food to compensate for my exhaustion from the all the other sugar and so I decided to take out over cream pies. And then also I stopped like eating sugar. It was amazing. I started like feeling energized again. I was sleeping better and I know that's like so funny, but honestly, like it's the same thing with our daily choices what we choose good or bad. So oatmeal cream pies or like carrot sticks, whatever Godly choices or self-centered choices, it will play into the overall experience and quality of our lives. So each day if you're walking in step with God and his word and you're seeking to love your neighbor love your family your friends and even yourself. Well, you can expect that you will live a life of purpose and peace like that's just like how simple it is like scripture tells us that God cannot be mocked that we reap what we sow so long So well so intentionally because I want to live I want to live in the abundance of the gifts of this or the fruit of the spirit. I want to live in the abundance of joy and again, and it's not that I'm looking for a fat bank account or a 2021 Chevy Tahoe like some massive like expensive SUV like wage I want to live content and at peace and at ease and in tune with the Holy Spirit and I want to see my relationships flourishing and so the the the the truth of getting that is that it's you have to show that like that doesn't just happen. You have to sell it. Right so many people that I've seen again with counseling and perhaps touring they want a result that they're not willing to put the effort in for right? So you want the joy you want the peace you want the unity and your family? Okay so long Call today so intentionally today. No, that's that's that's so good. And it leads kind of to the next thing. I wanted to ask you. But now that you've said all said that it's more of a statement now. I was going to talk to you about the difference between you know, what does it mean to to reap sparingly versus reaping abundantly, but I was just thinking about what you said. And so this came to mind. So please forgive me for telling you the story and taking your time but a couple of years ago like three or four years ago my wife and I went through a really really really just just rough season and I couldn't figure out why I just couldn't figure out why and so we went to marriage counseling and our counselor Keith Gattis, you know talked to us about you know, how long you what are you guys doing when you get into disagreements and stuff and I remember us discovering that a lot of times when one of us got into disagreements, what we would do was just we would just go our separate ways. And we wouldn't talk wouldn't talk for like a couple of days and then and then we would just kind of act like everything was fine or if there was like a tension-filled moment. Then I you know, I might go into the wrong and get on the PlayStation or she might get on Netflix and we would just never really deal with the issue. So when it all blew up it was like we felt like it came out of left field, but our counselor helped us realize like no, this is what and he used the word. This is funny. He said this is what you've been sewing for all this time. Wow, and now this is now you are reaping The sparingly marital, I guess marital environment that you've created. This is what you've created for your marriage. And so I thought it was like an eye-opener for us. It was like wow like this is what we've been investing and all of these years at the at that time we'd been we'd be basically been investing poorly in our marriage and now we are reaping it and so we've been we've become hundred and 10% times better at pouring into our page intentionally. So when there are disagreements when there are tension that we can actually talk we can actually discuss and figure things out and it made our marriage has never been I mean, it's not perfect but it's never been in a better place than it is now. So that's what that's what it when you were saying that I was like, oh my gosh, that makes so much sense. Yeah, and I think it's so powerful you say cuz that's where like a game. To get really passionate is that I I don't think myself included. I don't think we understand always liked the environments. I love that you use that word the environments we create or the same patterns that we set ourselves up in or the just the habits or the formations that we live in and we think like yeah, we're shocked when our relationships aren't flourishing off or when we become Workaholics or that we just feel really emotionally disconnected from God and it's it takes a while for us to just step back and see okay. Like I actually this is like the ground that I set up like this is the this is the seeds that I sewed into my life. Like when I thought like I was just like getting by through the day like coasting along I was actually sowing seeds of disunity my family run again, like we don't like to say it like that like even coming out of my mouth. I'm like dead. Like really harsh right but at the end of like maybe not at the end of one day, but if that becomes common practice three, four, five six years from now. Yeah that's going to be the result of the passivity of not being intentional in your everyday life. Yeah, man, that's that's so good. I yeah, sorry. I'm just I'm thinking through a man. That is yeah. God has really been doing a work and I know that the people that are listening they can imagine they can also Imagine probably the environments like they're probably thinking right now like oh, yeah that makes sense why these things have been happening because I've either not been intentional about whatever it is or I've actually been subconsciously intentional about planning this month and plowing this and this is the result of that. That's good. Yeah, absolutely and I I hope that that's some reflection that's taking place as a result of this conversation right off. Right. Okay. So so sparingly reap sparingly the little you so the little you'll get right but if you so intentionally and so abundantly then the promises that you'll reap abundantly. It's not always like, you know, million-dollar homes and nice cars and great jobs and all like that but it's it's it's it's whatever it is that God has been working in you he's going to bring that our but Anna we have to admit. That being pastors and you being a school counselor as well. We probably run into many cases where a couple or a child or a female or a male they'll tell you I've been sewing intentionally. I've been doing these things, you know, whatever it is. I've been doing it. I've been intentional about it and I'm still not seeing the fruits of my labor. What do you what do you say to that? I would honestly keep Galatians 6:7 at the Forefront of your mind. God cannot be mocked a man reaps what he sews and I believe that truth with all that's inside of me that maybe it doesn't feel like it at right now, but I so believe where it says, I believe it's in 2nd Peter that adds just the right time. God will lift you up. He will exalt you. He will bring about the Harvest for you if you just look at the plan change. Like if you know if you look at like a farming field or if you've got a garden in your yard that it may seem like it's going to be forever for that stock of corn to come through or for Thursday at that. I don't know that herb to grow or whatever you may be working on but you know, like I sowed the seed I watered it is going to come so holding steadfast to that page. Is that God I reaped abundantly. I I sewed or I sewed intentionally I sewed abundantly wasn't sparingly and I'm just going to hold to the promise that at the right time you will lift me up that you will bring about the Harvest and I think sometimes we miss out on the Harvest because we throw in the towel or we uproot it just before it's going to come now. Like I said before it's going to happen. We're like, I've tried it it's not working I'm done. And and so then you're like no like you were so close. Like I mean, I can only imagine like how many times you've had as a pastor. We're like dead. Somebody's being faithful in something and then like your like the result is about to come and then they like quit so I would say yeah be faithful keep that truth. God cannot be mocked. Meaning God is not a trickster like God is not he's not a like switch bait God, right? He will let you reap what you sow and and to add to that. I would say don't compare your heart to someone else's real often times. I feel like we miss out on the beautiful and the fruitful things in our harvest in our lives because we're so focused on someone else's fruit. Like we're like, oh my gosh, look at how awesome they're like confidences or their Joy or their peace and we're so focused on their Harvest that we miss them that we already are living in a wonderful Harvest and so I say start looking for the Harvest in your life, like start looking for the places of Peace the places of Joy the the places of purple. You're already living and don't miss out on it by comparing it to somebody else is cuz I think that's a big part of it too. Is that we're so focused on like my Harvest needs to look like they're Harvest but really might be you know, that God's interest is with different lives different circumstances. And so don't compare keep your eyes on your Harvest Right. No, I love that and one of my favorite teachers of the Bible Christine Caine. She says you will only have Grace for your race and no one has right? Yes the race that you run. That's the only Grace you will have when you try to run someone else's race or as you said when you try to compare your Harvest to someone else's Harvest it'll never fly. You'll always be left disappointed because it'll never look the same, right? Yeah, and I and I love that verse you quoted and 1st Peter 5:6. Yes. That's my life verse says humble humble yourself under the mighty hand of God that he may lift you up and do time. It doesn't suck. Humble and then after a week or after two weeks, it's just says in due time if you continue to humble yourself and sometimes and I don't know if you agree with this Anna but sometimes that humbleness living under that humility may not show up on this side of heaven, but in guaranteed to show up on the other side, right? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's another thing with like the sewing intentionally and reaping abundantly like the abundance Like Only Heaven will be able to tell all the results all the fruit of the choices that we got two are all the choices that we made in our lives in the here-and-now. Yeah, that's so good. Well Anna this has been fun. The last two weeks of having you on the podcast has been awesome. Thank you so much. It is so cool. And I'm so thankful for the the this the platform that God has given you and just the way you Steward. It's super awesome to watch and I'm excited. Yep. Our conversations in the days and weeks to come yes. Yes. Yes, and if you guys want to know more about what Anna is doing or the so what podcast you can go where Anna you can go to my website and McGuire a n n a McGuire m c g u i r e r Ana McGuire. Code, or you can just buy my podcast Spotify Apple podcast s o w. So what yes, please, please please go listen to it and begin to understand what it means to so intentionally and of course reap abundantly man. We're so thankful and for coming on the show and I want to thank you for listening today. If this was helpful for you, would you do me a favor a big favor and share this with others. Also, I'd love it. If you would provide a positive rate and review wherever you listen to your podcast app, which will help this show reach more people and that's what it's all about. It's not about Thursday. Or popularity this podcast is all about encouraging and inspiring every Christian to love Jesus and to live out their purpose and uncommon ways. Thanks for joining and we'll see you next week. Thank you for listening to The Uncommon Christian podcast with Michael Hinton. For more information on today's topic this uncommon Christian podcast.com

Anna McGuire Archie Archie school counselor Michael Hinton Indianapolis Parkside Church Andrew Maguire Keith Gattis Spotify Jesus Netflix Choi Erica Facebook Tahoe Ana McGuire Christine Caine one day two weeks
Grammy Noms, Lizzie McGuire + Andrea Barber Interview

Chicks in the Office

1:47:13 hr | 1 year ago

Grammy Noms, Lizzie McGuire + Andrea Barber Interview

"What's up everyone. It's chicks in the office with Rian friend giving you that Friday energy on Thursday presented by our favorite it monster energy ultra guys. It's officially becoming award season soon. Nominations are being revealed so we went all in on the grammy nominations nations for this episode. But we needed our energy up and to do that. We drank some monster energy. Ultra of course. We talk about our favorite. The violet can the the best thing about the monster. Energy Ultra is that there is zero sugar and it's low calories but we keep focusing on this violet can which is amazing by the way tastes Purple Pixie stick but guys there's other flavors out there that we realized are really really they're also good show good. The Paradise Green can is so so amazing. It tastes like you're on a beach after a weekend of you know being in Miami thanks for monster and test them all out. We were at NASCAR with monster. You're got to see how everything operates. We had a full rundown of all the different kind of monster drinks. It was like we weren't even but it was awesome and we learned so much and and it truly solidified that the monster energy ultra is the best tasting energy drink like in its category for having zero sugar low. Oh Calorie. You're not gonNA get anything better. No you can't get better than that. So if you're looking for that perfect energy drink without all of the sugar and other things that come along with go for the Monster Energy Ultra guys trust us on this. The flavors are so good. If you've been trying the violet keep drinking that and also try some other flavors. I personally like I said loved the Paradise as well as the violent and the blue is also really good blue and I know it sounds ridiculous that we keep comparing it to candy but the blue tastes like a blue raspberry leg. Hard candy is so good. It's a great way to get ready for a night out. It's candy it can. Yeah yeah you know like we said why. Am I actually winking at you. Nobody can see me awake. You're playing the part you know. Remember what we said Wink Wink. Remember what we said so so. Make sure you've got that monster. Energy Ultra keep tagging us. We love to share it and yeah keep tweeting attacking us like. I said it's award season. Which means it's the grammy? Nominations were revealed. And we're just going to really dive right into it because we're really excited about that and that's been the main focus of our lives right. You have nothing interesting personally going on. No we really don't because I win these awards and this is probably something that is fairly unhealthy that these awards like consume assume my thoughts so much because I get so I get so into it on reasons. Why like I'm so happy? Some people are nominated but then some people don't get nominated and then and I get so confused. I'm like well not everybody can be nominated. Yeah well I think that we both feel that way and listeners. Feel that way and this is why we created this podcast so that we can be open about Out Our feelings about how much we care about award shows. Yes and the nominations. And you're going to hear that passion from us in this podcast and we also have many other topics Yaacob vowed we have an update from Selena Gomez and the Bella Hadid instagram drama. We also have an update about Taylor Swift Scooter Braun and Scott and big machine gene. What's happening with that? Motley crue is returning. We also talk about all of the Grammy Nominations lizzy McGuire is back with a huge surprise and very very exciting. We have the one and only Kimmy Gabler on this podcast. Andrew Barber. She came in. She was a wonderful. I want her to be my mom my second mom because I do love my mom very very much. She's a spider to hug her the whole time. The whole tigers wanted. I felt like if she hugged me. All of my problems would be curious. Yeah I felt good because when she came into the room she did hug US initially and I was like this is nice. Mom Yeah thank you So honestly honestly it was a great interview and we talk a little bit a it gets a little serious for a second batting ziobro which I think is very good for everybody to listen to if you want a better insight. So let's get into it. Starting off with Lizzie. McGuire they died. We got some very canoes. Not US personally. But the World Maguire which is coming back we know on Disney plus we were nervous about what characters were coming back. GORDO is officially back. Yes Adam Lambert Google does name. It's just Adam Lambert Adam Lambert's j.lo's Yeah Adam Adam Berg divine situation yes he. He's back reprising his role as Gordo. I don't know what capacity I'm the episodes he'll be and it. I was just like they tweeted a video on Disney of Hillary Duff and and him together and they made this is what dreams are made of joke but he he looks exactly the same words like kind of freaking me out and I guess like I guess back then. It didn't seem lake AAC that different like size wise but he looks so much smaller than Hillary Duff analogous a human. I'm like what's going on. Well maybe maybe because he always been this small maybe because they all looked so young well you know Hillary was so young she also young. He looked so young still. She's also also looks young but he just exactly she looks gorgeous. She looks so number. One loved the style that they're putting on listening. You know like the modern lizzy spin been that. She's getting is amazing so good. I cannot wait. I'm hoping that I wish we had a date of one this was. I know it's probably going to be a while. 'cause like but they're filming the show right now. I hope that Gordo comes back like not someone she's with. I don't think he well as her best friend I think he comes back right. He is her best friend right. I think they will have some kind of long not long but like fizzled out when they were younger and maybe they reconnect as a friendship kind of way. I'm thinking like thirteen going on thirty style. Oh yes but they end up. No I'm not saying that they end up together. I'm but I'm just saying like that kind of relationship where they were like so close and then drift apart that become friends again. Maybe they end up together. Maybe they don't. I'm just like I know that people are going to be mad at this. I'm just like not rooting for them to be together together. I want I want a new interest in. She's definitely going to have new ones. This airily Ethan's going to be have some role in this. I I think love that. This is like when Fuller House came back and Steve You know yeah but I. I was rooting for Steve. Big Time like Dj had another boyfriend and he's he was hot right and I was just. I guess you're right. I was kind of room for Steve. Like I wanted Steve to win in the end and for sure. I guess it's going to depend on watching the show because right now. Let's get some new love interest. But if I see Lizzie Gordon together in their chemistry is strong on the show. I'm going to be rooting for them to be together. Yeah and Lizzy Gordo or just one of those weird relationships where like the chemistry was never there. The thing about watching the show and then like watching the movie Like they were always best friends and you could always tell the Gordo totally. I love Lizzie. And the way they ended. The movie was just like a very cute moment. For Gordo always sound like Lizzie. Like kiss him and it was like back this big moment but I I never felt like there was some dying love connection between them that they were both holding off. No I think it was more like what you said. Gordo probably definitely had a crush on Lizzie. Girl best friend. They're growing up and you know going through puberty. Yes always around Lizzie. And I mean did Acumen humoring him to win over Paulo but but but it wasn't. It wasn't like Oh those two are hot like that makes sense. And I don't think Lizzie was is into it at all I. This is my cute guy. She was friends owning him with a kiss. She sealed the friend zone with a kiss. Yeah this interpretation Asian Than A. Lotta people have full Lizzie. McGuire movie you know. I think if we had Elian hair she'd be like no no lizzy and Gordo they kiss because I think she was leaning towards out on the group chat. Yeah but yeah it would be good to get some other people's opinions. I feel like people wouldn't agree with this but I also think that it was kind of odd that they didn't have have that kind of chemistry with Paolo. So and I was like we never got any actual time of them being together. Yeah you you know like those will they. Won't they kinda shows that we grow up on there. Were always you always have at least a few episodes of them actually dating before things fell apart again. Yeah we never saw that. We never even had that moment for that. There is a kiss at the end of the movie. And that was it. I also there was never watching them like be a couple. The kiss at the end of the movie was because he saved her and he went home because of her. You know how do you like. It wasn't a romantic gesture but it was also you know you're my best friend and I did this for you. took the he took the heat for longer buyer. Yes yeah and and I. I'm just thinking about what would happen if time had passed in years in between and I think that Lizzie would probably move von from Gordo. Yeah that'd be my guess too. And that they would be best friends any. He'll I think he will come back in. Like maybe a a look much time has passed like the kind of lost lost touch. I feel like they'll be best fronts really. I don't know but I always GONNA be friends. It's like I don't know if he's going to be in every episode where their best friends like. I feel like it might be a quick quick appearance. Like he makes he comes back for one episode. Soda like Gordo comes back. Yeah visit yeah well. She doesn't have kids. I don't know I don't know she's like she's. He's the inner thirties living in New York. I don't think she has. She's not married with children. Got Confused because she has life she does confirm does have kids in real life life. I don't think Lizzie McGuire has kids so Not yet not yet but possibly possibly she got pregnant she could she definitely could i. I see that being a storyline show like three seasons. Yeah was he gets pregnant. Maybe a WHO's the dad. Gordo Gordon thin mysterious man areas man that how Palo just comes in. Honor of no shamed. Popstar ah they add one long name. Halley and popstars careers. Never been the same. Yes a beard. It's possible if they we're smart at least like make appearance for to set one episode. Yeah just in some kind of I wonder Miranda is going to be in this I was just GonNa say that right because we got Gordo leave Miranda. I haven't seen any word of lane being in this. You think they had some falling out I'm not sure. But the lane hasn't said the nicest things about being lizzy McGuire really. Oh well I mean she was like yeah. I think recently released in the last year or so she's talked about how she felt like she was really whitewashed like her character was really whitewashed on TV. So and I guess her as an actress she felt that as well so I I don't know what that relationship is like. Yeah probably not great but it would be weird to kind of not to not have Verandah. Be a part of this in some way. And I'm sure they will even if she's not I'm sure they will allude to Miranda Alek maybe Miranda. She's in some foreign country. Doing who knows what I feel like. That's always the move. She's traveling right. It's I know I know we keep going back to fuller house. And it's because we were talking to Andrew about it today and she played Kimmy Gabriel Gabler. We have full House and Fuller House in our brain. Like America. And Ashley didn't do anything for Fuller House like in Fuller House. The joke was that Michelle was in New York following her passion and fashioned which is a little joke on those twins but that was like how that's what they would always talk about like Michelle can't ever come home because she's too busy in New York with her with her in her fashion world so they could probably just do the same thing with Miranda Miranda's off doing who knows what who knows what doesn't end up a gorgeous there they got. They got mom and Dad. A Matt is the same person same character so they're starting to like pull all the pieces together. I think I wanNA say saw something about Ethan being on the show you said that in the beginning. Are you taking back now. No I'm pretty sure I saw ought Liz McGuire Ethan. Re I could. Maybe Kate Leeann it. That'd be cool is Ethan. Craft in the lizzie McGuire reboot reboot. Hilary Duff. Has the answer. That's what I need Let's see while it's anyone's guess that no. No no do due. Whether the younger did appeared to hint that her longtime spaghetti loving crush Ethan craft will be making some kind of appearance and that there are definitely feelings involved during an exclusive interview with E. News at a lovely. Oh rescue event. He is hot. He's very hot. She told the publication seeming to confirm that Liz's former love interest will still be in the picture. I'm pretty sure there's going to be. There's going to be a thing. She also confirmed she has an awesome boyfriend and they've been together for two years so everything's is looking pretty promising for her. Okay so Lizzie. Has a boyfriend in Alicia already. Has a boyfriend of two years who years things are looking promising. Whose boyfriend comedian? He is going to be somebody a new person. But like somebody were definitely discreetly like. Oh I wonder if it'll be like a known known back up now so maybe Ethan POPs in now Gordo's are going to Palm Bay. Ethan is hot like why would that she had colluding characters hot. He's hot he's very hot. So do you think Ethan is still hot. I think we need to see what he looks. Like now I have seen a picture of him recently. Oh I think now I need to see this Oh Dad I I wouldn't say not Not Hot let me see. What's his name Clayton Snyder in Niger? Two different look for sure. He's obviously veasley matured. Oh is this him. Yes this is a better picture. I think this is horrible radio. Yeah Yeah this is bad but oh he just as mature yeah like he really does just look like Ethan all grown up which does make me think that he kind of looks like a mixture of Tim Tebow. Oh when Michael Phelps here he does a little bit he does you see this no he does play water polo interesting. Yeah or did play water polo because he just went on to have a pretty normal life after Lewis Maguire the went to school water polo. So I'm sure he would be Dinah get back on the show I with high with thick. So so he'll be in it at least that's what Hillary Duff seemed to allude to Gorda. We now have have confirmed. We'll be in it as well and then we're just waiting for the rest of to fall into place here descendants who did. Aw All right guys like I said it's award season and the grammy nominations were revealed and we all know that award season goes with holiday season. And if you're wondering what the perfect holiday gift that families across America have of love for over a hundred years. It's Omaha steaks Omaha. steaks is America's original butcher bringing families together since nineteen seventeen right now alma. High stakes is sharing an amazing limited time holiday offer with our listeners. To get a jump on your holiday shopping you can go to Omaha. STEAKS DOT COM and enter. 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I think we should go through the nomination. Okay first and then go through the record of the year award to the artist into the producers recording engineers and or mixers and mastering engineers if other than the artist Hey Ma Bonnie Blair bad guy billy Irish. Seven rings are `Grande Hard Place. Her Talk Khalid Old Town road. Lana Zak featuring billy race hours truth hurts lezo sunflower pose moans and slowly. Okay no it. Can you just play the song. Talk for a second because I gotta get my feelings off about about the song I have like can we. Just yes this song. Yeah I can't stand it real can't because I used to like it a lot. Yeah I was like Damn I really liked the song and then it just got played played so much to the point where I now when I hear it. I just genuinely angry. I kid doc song you hit it last year remember. It was the same type of song that was the one thing about the. Hey she and then all of a sudden they believed it all the time and usually that does happen with songs in some grammy's because it is like so much time has passed because the the deadline was August. Thirty thousand nine thousand nine hundred and so like no songs in the last few months right and and you could say the same for like truth hurts is now played all the time and I still really like that song but now when it comes on I'm not as you know like it's interesting and I fade faster and faster. That's unfortunate. I know I really liked it too. And then I was like damn with a solid truth hurts. It's crazy because the song came out years ago So it's like how does this fall into the criteria but I guess because she re released it on her album mm-hmm that came out during the time so I guess it's still qualifies. I don't know it's interesting because it is way past. Obviously what like the eligibility dates are for one. The song was originally released but it would be impossible to nine on like one of the biggest songs ever. So you're not totally makes sense now still hits for me totally harder than talk it totally right now. I'm trying to go out. Yeah I wish I had a mirror in front of me to dance in front of you know I feel like off out in the mirror game ready. I also really liked juice by her. I would have been loved. Juice was nominated to okay then. We have album of the year. Okays beat them out of the air. Hey record of the year no Taylor swift no Halsey I am. Yeah no like Mayor Morris or anything like that like for the country music fans out there. I thought that I was upset. About Taylor Swift not getting nominated. I really really really feel like Halsey was snapped. Yeah Verse One hundred Taylor Swift did get nominee guy. Williams uh-huh nominees so snubbed without me. The best songs this year her voices chilling. Yeah I agree no nomination and she I she even tweeted about it. And you gotta go to the tweets she wrote on your own my fans. Please do not waste your anger or frustration. I see a lot of Europe set. Of course I'm sad to none of it matters literally none of it. You're here I'm here. Plus everything thing is going to stay exactly the same and without me is still a super tight record-breaking song yeah yeah I mean that's just walks. It's just it's so confusing. How this song doesn't i? Don't get it either. I don't get it either. I guess it look. There's just there's too many songs we know unless when you put it like every song nominee I would put this if you think about all the songs that wasn't last year no it wasn't and I feel like this. Don't everything feel so delayed. I know sunflower came out. Let's see some our came out on October. Eighteenth Eighteenth so yes it has been a long as time since that songs come out so it is like I said it's on delight all right album of the year ear. I Bonnie Blair. Barney bear always is coming through with the grammy nominations. You can always expect him him him her body hair to get nominated Lot of delray for northern fucking Rockwell. While billy for when we all fall asleep where do we go oriented Guerande. Thank you next her. I used to know her. Seven Luna's X. Lonzo 'cause I love you and vampire weekend for father of the bride all right so I'm very surprised fries and I have been on record saying that I did enjoy little GNAWS XS. EP Yes. I'm very surprised that this gets an album of the year. Domination I to surprise and I love little X.. Listen I don't I wanted to play a game but I felt like it was kind of a rude game so I stepped back from saying it but I'm just GonNa say what I what it was. Okay so when we were going through the songs and I said without me should be there in lover be there I would. I was GONNA ask Ski. What Song would you knock off that list to put that in? You know what I mean. So we're this you would knock off seven by little Nasdaq's to put lover by Taylor Taylor swift at their. Yeah you would because when you're looking at it and it comes down to facts. Why is that on there now? I understand little nuys X.. was huge is this year old town road Joe Enormous and he has been nominated for Old Town road. He deserves Vaca the best new artist nomination. He's like six nominations right and I think that not which is amazing. It's hard because lover. It's so hard to to say that one other artists are one other song should be included included without like knocking an art and artists. It sometimes it needs to be done like in in my opinion. If I had to make broom for Taylor on here would have been little not Zach. What if he gets the boot? That's not to knock him because like I said he put together a wild EP. It was not what I expected expected from him at all and it was really really cool. I just I'm shocked. That lovers not nominated for album there. I just don't understand as literally the biggest album to come out like numbers wise in in so long that this doesn't get like any recognition in at all. I also I'm confused because I personally I love her. Yeah I really really liked it and I just think as you're saying statistically thickly lover should be on there yeah and this is just a pure Fan Standpoint I don't love lot of delray I I I like her but I think it's more just her. Music is not necessarily my my favorite but is she super cool and her album album was like everybody loved that album. I loved it so I totally understand that I'm saying for my personal standpoint Not My favorite but a new owner. Say Billy I wish yeah. It's really really cool that she was dated young artists like ever to get these nominations and I think she one hundred percent deserves all her nominations. I mean not album I personally. I loved her album. I don't love her music necessarily but I respect her. Yeah like I know what she has done is very very cool and new and innovative. That like nobody else has really done before that on that front I totally respect it and I think she totally deserves all all the recognition condition. That she's getting Hersher do like bad guy. I know everyone's like that's like her. You know most mainstream song but I like bad guy. Yeah I mean bad guys. A great song allowed to like friends. And and even though it's mainstream you could still is a great song and the Remix with Justin Bieber was good not as good as the original but still it was good. Yeah so so no Taylor Swift for love swift if she got snubbed. There's also a lot of talk about like a an ageism situation here because a lot of older artists had albums come out got no nominations. People are talking talking about springsteen and Madonna and a couple of others. I forget that they were like well. They're not topping the charts anymore. If you're I mean I'm not saying that you have to top the charts arts but there definitely needs to know for sure in in your music definitely plays Okay Song of the year always as remember us this way which is one of Lady Gaga songs from a star is born Bad Guy Billy Bush. Bring my flowers now. Tanya on your Tucker Hard Place her lover Taylor Swift Norman Rockwell. Lana del Rey. Someone you loved Louis. Cataldi truth hurts. Liz Oh this one is so tough. This one's really tough. But I think that Liz oh brings it home. Yeah that's that wouldn't be my personal little choice of my favorite song out of the group right. I think as the biggest song of the year. Yeah true this is the biggest. There is where the timing is weird also because of stars born like coming out on that weird deadline where like why am I spacing on the name of the song. Shallow shallow thank you like shallow was like shallow was nominated for things but the whole album like wasn't out yet so like now songs from the album or being nominated but can grammy's tighten up their time. Line here. Yes yeah it's it's. It is a bizarre. It's a bizarre time. But that's like how all the awards are. The timing is is very weird. It feels late. I don't I don't really know too much about Tanya Tucker. She is a country country music artist. Who has been around for a very long time? She's sixty one years old and she got I think she got three nominations so maybe the grammys aren't aren't aegis. But they she got in here for Song of the year which is another other one. Where like you could see maybe a without me or hall? You know one of those without me again. It's getting snapped all over the place. Yeah but this is also so Song of the year is like the Songwriter Award. So I guess it's normally think more of a lear ICAL nomination true which would make sense and I mean. I know that it's GonNa be the obvious choice but like Taylor Swift deserves this war. You think deserves glover is phenomenal song for not right that herself yes see. That's it's where it's different because Taylor swift actually wrote that song so then you look at the other ones and you're like oh truth hurts. Lonzo didn't even write that right. Well she did but she's like Along with so many other so many other people like she has like they're awesome. Yes there's a lot of names a lot of names listed it under under I would say I mean but like lover also had the lead the Christmas lights up till January line in there. I don't think she loses an grammy for that one line. We're talking. We're talking about the SONGWRITING I. It's a beautifully written song. Yeah Okay let's do best new artist before we go to break. There's a lot of people on this list that I'm not GONNA lie. I don't know who they are Black Pumas on onshore billy eyelash Lola's X.. Liz Oh Maggie Rogers Rosalia tank and the bengals and Yola. Now I don't know four of those and all three of those Yola tagging the Bengals and Blackpool has I've I've never heard of but all the other ones between yes and it's GonNa be. It's GonNa be a tough one because everyone they all have had huge songs this year and have I've had a great year so I really think it's just going to be a toss up. I'm pulling for my girl Maggie Rogers on this one. Yeah and she. She's not nominated in a lot of other areas. I think this is her one nomination and normally I would lead me. You could obviously make a case for so many of the other. Gosh but they. They have a ton of other nominations right so and I also I mean I love McKee Rogers. I think she is so awesome some polling. I'm for my girl Maggie Rogers on that one. Yeah just feel like they do have so many other nominations that it's like all right you guys don't have to invest 'cause you're GonNa Win Song of the year right exactly and I do. I hope I'll it'll be interesting to see what little GNAWS X. Wins. I'm sure he will win. Something and just for that acceptance speech. We'll be great yes it will definitely be an interesting ride. Yeah I the Guy I think he is very funny. So we'll be it'll be interesting and the next category is best pop solo solo performance. Yeah we have Spirit by beyond say bad guy billy. eyelash Severin's aren't Agron Day. Truth Hurts Liz. Oh and you need to calm down down Taylor swift see. This is where I have some problems deciding. Because I'm like what does best pop solo performance. Me wher WHOA. What performance are we talking about? It's it's the it's the single it's like it's not so then. What is it the morning song of the year occas? That's the writing and ear is like songwriter. Record of the air is like as more production. Okay and then best pop solo performance. This is them singing the song. I don't know here. This is where it's tough. Seven rings by Arianna Agron Day. When when did that come out while remember like it was last year's grammys? That all that shit with Arianna Guerande. What down? Because she wanted to perform seven rings things and they wouldn't let her perform some rings because now she's finally getting the recognition for seven rinks Will Ariana Grande Day attend one. I mean yes. She's nominated and five times. She's been like crying on twitter all day it was like ecstatic. She's so happy she will definitely be there. I'm kind of pulling for Ariana Grande Day on that one I Love I love spirit by beyond say. I know that that's like probably not going to not go into win but I listened. Listen to that song so much when it came I would actually rate that as the last one on my list. I don't think that's I don't think I think a lot of people are probably awesome. Among the truth hurts by Liz. Oh once again it always goes back hurts and then bad guy billy I less. Yeah also huge song. Then you need to calm down tiller slept. I would put that second to last. Yeah and then it sucks because obviously like you need to calm down and me. Were Taylor's first two singles which I neither I really love didn't love so those are going to be the choices so I think it's I don't know I think it's a toss up between truth. Hurts seven rings in bad guy. Yeah Yeah agreed. Hard to say which one best pop duo group performance. Big category guys huge category Boyfriend aren't Agron Day in Social House. Old Town road low Nasdaq's featuring billy ray cyrus sunflower post malone and sway Lee Senorita Shawn Mendez and Camila Cabello and Sucker by the jurors brothers. Yes sucker was nominated soccer. was there one nomination. Yeah it's been ten years since their last grammy nomination and this is also another tough category because obviously we want the Jonas brothers to win for soccer and out of all of these sucker is by far the best song but you got Shawn Mendez and Camila Cabello in this category gory you got little Nasdaq's old town road which was I mean. We all remember how the world reacted when old town road came out with. Billy Ray Cyrus on the mix was the entire world exploded but out of a song that you can genuinely still like and listen to constantly sucker. Is the obvious choice this year. I don't think a boyfriend it's just good friends. I did not do it for me with Artie. I feel like she deserves to win. Awards in other categories and not this one. And that's my unbiased opinion. Old Town Road Old Town road in Senorita are going to be tough but I also have a weird feeling that like sunflower could win every every award. It's not many sunflower. Wins this one. I'm going to be hist interest so I'm sorry I I like post Malone out of all the songs here. It's sunflower really. Want the jaws brothers to win this award and it's it's it's it's like it sucks because they're the only actual group nominated. It's like their group. Everybody else is a artist with a future like it's not. It was a great song. Featuring Social House Shawn Mendez and Shamanism is definitely a more of a pure collaboration. And I would say but I don't think that really sways it in a way though with the might not know is just like like the odds of two people. Winning are are just higher. Because there's not a lot of groups there's only one group. Oh well yeah I mean well when would it like yes I I think that's GonNa be the deciding factor. Jonas brothers win. Probably probably probably not. I mean the jars brothers have the numbers on this song to compete for shore. Old Town road sucks because it was so jain norm ass- but it's like what kind of song is it like. Should it be in pop duo group performance. I guess so because it's just a popular song. It falls into to pop music because there is all that debate is of rap is a country. Is it going to be on the cusp. Like it's definitely not nominated for country. Is it even group performance ornaments. Yeah that's that's but that's also just because I would really like the Jones brothers to win and I I also feel like the Jonas brothers just have so so much more going for them in this category like they you know they come back this year. They're not nominated nomination. Yeah they're not nominated for anything else and everybody. The senior scenarios does also only nominated. And that's where I think that and I know you're not going to like this answer but this is just the Yes of award shows that in you know the people voting and the people sitting around you know they say that it's being voted a certain way but we don't really know because it's not a fan voting thing we it's truthfully up to the people boy of the grammy's we don't really know what's going on. And they could be thinking to themselves Shawn Mendez and Camila Cabello dating what what. A great moment for them to win this award on stage gets people talking about the grammy's and not to say that the people want to be talking about the Jonas brothers but you have to remember that they are putting on the show. Yeah and they are looking for the best ratings and for people to talk about I shall lead. Don't think the recording academy cares that much. I really don't only because there's been so many years. Here's the grammy's where they least popular artists have won all the awards and we are watching. And you're like why like the better the better ATV would have been if other people. Yeah I mean that's a good point but there's been so many times where somebody like. The least popular. Artists has won album of the year. And you're like well. They really care. They weren't have been having that person win. Yeah I mean I don't know just throwing it out there because it is. It is a possibility although obviously we're pulling for the job in his father's just it's they're too big artists on men isn't Camilla bail but that doesn't mean that the Jonas brothers can't win and once again old town road ver very popular. Yeah all right. I'M GONNA WANNA skip a few of these best pop vocal album. The Lion King the gift beyond say when we all fall asleep where we go thank you. Next Day number six collaborate collaborations project Shirin in love or Taylor Swift. What's going to be very interesting? is the battle between Ariana Grande and Taylor swift left because nominee. There obviously nominated for a lot of the same things and Arianna and scooter. Obviously your clothes and Taylor is is not close with that yet. I don't think that they are probably the best of friends. And they're going up against each other and there's a lot of drama going on what scooter right now and that is Arianna as manager. So scooter would he be there. You know it's it's interesting dynamic. It is but they're they're definitely it's it's GonNa be a tossup each time because they're both great artists and they both have great music and it's different music but you could love both of them equally and enjoy enjoy both their music equally. Just really GONNA come down to it that night. I bet. They feel that way themselves when they're thinking about it like every artist has agreed song and great work. And everybody's working so hard on it so for sure they got to know that to going to it then. It goes into like Dan's latronic music and honestly for somebody who listens since like a lot of that kind of music. I don't know one of these songs for the best dancer CORETEC. Summer's going to skip. Best Dance Electron onic album. I do like flu maybe Flomo win. And then okay keep going ROC none of these all of these awards like I just. I don't. They are obviously important but I feel like we kind of. We don't know a lot of these people people. Liz Oh came through with a lot of arm be category awards as well and let's see. I'm going to try and find wrap so you wrap tournaments contribute Middle Child J Cole share. Go ahead you're you're you're you can announce the rap song the Middle Child j Cole shook the baby down bad dream Bill. I don't even know the songs people are going to be like. Wow really doesn't like rap Racks in the middle nipsy Russell and clout offset featuring Cardi B.. Personally I would go with the baby but obviously they're honoring nipsy hustle. which I would you know? I think that would be great for him to win as well. But this is now a tough category. Yeah 'cause Nipsy Russell who obviously passed away right right right. He was He nominated a few times. And I feel like there's going to be outraged if he doesn't win. You know what I mean. Yeah but it also. It's one of those things where it's like you know. All of these songs are good so when it comes down to it. It's Kinda hard to be like. Oh well we want honor him in some way but now this song is is really good too so yeah definitely my personal choice would be like I said the baby. Yeah it is what it is Best Rap Sung performance higher. Dj College Featuring Nipsy Russell and John Legend drip too hard hard little baby and GonNa Panini Little Nasdaq's nominated again ballin mustard featuring roddy rich the London young thug featuring Jay Colin Travis. Scott got people are really happy. That young Thug was nominated a few times because Kanye West wants tweeted like we need young thug at the grammys not just me. And Jay Z and a suit so people people are really happy that he's nominated And then best rap song. I was Uh this now this is the writers yes songwriter can't with the it's very confusing. It's very an every single year. I think you you tell me one and still it's not I'm not grasping on every single year. Okay see in a lot a lot more songwriters on these. Are you noticing that Ben the pop one and there's a lot more songwriters on these people a lot of people. Okay so we got bad idea. They they also roses for long names a lot racks in the middle and showed again so once again nipsy hustles nominated. It's tough. Yeah that's it's going. This is going to be very very interesting when the grammys are on. And what's going to come from it because there's there's really no winning in this situation unless you know what I mean because if they give it to nipsy hustle than some people might be like oh they only gave it to him which would be messed up for people to say. But that's how how people react and then if they don't give a temporary it'd be like why wouldn't you give it to him. He deserved it. I think this might be one of the instances. Where if if he does win? Everybody will respect that you know. Look I think there'd be less people upset about it like if he if. Yeah I think people would just be like people we understand understand why you got this. Yes but he was also nominated a few times so it's like they have to give him at right right right right. They have to honor him at at least one time. Yes okay. What's best rap album? All right Allie. Oh yeah so noah what do you feel about this because he tweeted. I guess and there wasn't really like any. He's retweeting like all his old videos. But I mean I think you should win like just looking at the list. Just looking at the. Unless he's going up again meek mill championships but I am. I was twenty one savage that but I feel like tyler. The Creator is in a winning spree. Brie right now how. `Bout a why began guys. Come in here. He was nominated a few times. What's he's only he's nominated for? Best rap song bad idea Yeah I think that tyler the Creator should win that just because I feel like it's his time right. I think it's his time. The only thing I could see is like meek mill is a good story like he he came Outta jail yet truthfully championships in my opinion. Wasn't that good. Yeah I agree. It wasn't like his other albums. Just wasn't okay and then we go into us. Best country There's not really and I wouldn't qualify myself as a country music expert at all. I do enjoy country music and much more of a poppy country music kind of person and not like as much to traditional country music. I know a lot of people are talking about mayor and Morris only getting one nomination and I I love Marianne Morris I could have seen her getting a nomination. In one of the categories song of the year album of the year record of the year for the bones or anything like that song was fantastic. She only got one nomination for common for country duo group performance which she did with Brandy Carlisle and country. Solo performance is Got Guy you're classics. Willie Nelson Blake Shell and Talker. Tower child's childers McBride and Best country do a group performance. Like I said there's Marianne Morris but also a little big town brooks and Dunn Combs Brothers Osborne. Dan Shea I I also love Dan and shy so I'm glad to see they get on here as Wolpe speeches is a great song. I know nothing about country music whatsoever. Yeah I now I know you've been married. Moore's best country album and I know people are kind of like inbetween on her. On what where she lies I was GonNa say that's more cadre. She is but she like the. CNA awards just happened and she was like nominated in every category category like everything. So it's crazy like they like in that she's considered country music. She got all the nominations in the same. As but in the grammys. It's like not country enough if I guess I don't know it's bizarre so I feel like she kinda got hose a little bit and only got that one nomination for the Song Brandy Carlisle which is a great song but definitely could have seen her nominated and other categories still. I think that's kind of it when it comes to to the big ones yeah. I don't I'm looking through and I don't really see anymore. Yeah I mean you really go into really go into everything. We have best music video which is a big one. Yeah Hawn homecoming was also nominated for like visual best music music film homecoming has to win. Holy Holy Shit. Yeah I might watch that tonight. I forgot how much that changed my life when I watched That was just too good. It was. I'm smiling watching that for the first time I own my God unbelievable. Yeah still to this day if I get see probably now thinking about it any performance if you ask me if you could be there for any live performance formation's beyond to Coachella. Yeah like front row though agreed agreed Also we there is the best compilation soundtrack for visual media. That's Lion Lion King once upon a time in Hollywood rocket man Spiderman into the spider verse and a star is born. It's so bizarre seeing like stars foreign like nominated for things like and this happened already did not come out two years ago infuse. This have happened already. Got A fix up time on. Yeah yeah definitely it is. It is kind of insane. All right well. I think that wraps up the grammy nominations were. Did you say the music video once and no I didn't I didn't list them. It's all the way at the bottom. Can you tell me what is announced rolling We've got to try the chemical brothers this land Gary Clark Junior cellophane FDA twigs old town. Road will nausea billy Ray Cyrus and glad he's gone. I mean Old Town road music video. It is something else I haven't seen any of the other. I can't even say I haven't seen any of the other videos on that list. I can't give you my pet because I haven't I haven't seen any others. Yup exactly all right. I think that's that's it for the Grammy's were I'm excited to see what happens. I really really really really want the others when I talked about on twitter for two seconds but I remember watching them lose the best new artist award a ten years ago when I was like fourteen fifteen and they lost to Adele and I truly like in my in my house like crying like who it is a Dell. No idea like yeah. All I did was listened to the John's brothers and like Taylor. Miley Demi like I didn't listen to anything because Delo desert Pakistan tell Adele looking. I take back what I said. I think the Jones brothers have a chance I'd more is was great and it was like such a statement song for them to come back way after being gone for so long and I think that a genuinely is a good song. Old Town road was really good for a while. Yeah I mean do I choose to play all right like I will still put on soccer to this day. Yes all right well. It's how they should judge it. It's it's so much time has passed everybody. Everybody voting should be like. Does this song. Stop Stiller is this. Do I still go to put the song right. Does it have any longevity sucker. Does soccer does in the killing dollars. uh-huh skinny uh skinny Bella Hadid selena Gomez Spelled D. posted a picture selena Gomez commented and then bell had deleted the picture than a fan account picked it up and posted the fact that Selena accommodated and then Bella delete the picture and then Selena commented on that that sucks and we were so confused. We didn't know whether or not Bella deleted it because is she just deleted the picture because it was Lena commented or what. The reasoning was but ben right when we were talking about it. TMZ reported that Abella and Selena in a had a discussion after the deletion and there was no reason why Bella deleted because Selena. She deleted it just because she didn't like the picture. And then there there were news outlets reporting that bell deleted it because Selena commented and then Selena jumped in for the final time and commented. This do you have the communists she said. I know I shouldn't have spoken without knowing the truth she wrote on Instagram. I'm sorry please don't be hurtful. She is a wonderful person and it was all a misunderstanding. So so this clears everything up for us because everybody under well I think. I don't know why the picture was deleted. I think I think that that I am more starting to believe the fact that maybe she just didn't like the picture right. Obviously the actually the railroads because that could the real reason but of course we go back to the weekend and Bella and salina and Salina. Bella were friends and then Selena started dating the weekend and obviously anybody would be mad. Added their friend for data there ex-boyfriend But all years delete a photo right. She could have been like oh deleted them in like. Why did I just do that right? Yeah because there have been times where I put up a picture ended up looking at it. You know sometimes when you look at a picture over and over again the picture starts looking weird to you. Yeah and then you're like Ooh I look. Why do I look this way? I want to delete it fan. There have been times where I've deleted a picture. Obviously I'm not bill deed and then after Mike. ooh What I delete that now. That looks suspicious. But yes because I genuinely looked in the picture and I didn't want it on my feet anymore. So there are so many different reasons and of course it goes back to the sponsor and maybe you know it was a dior. Your picture right could have been something with your but I think that it clears up the fact that bell had didn't do anything wrong here because so many people were coming after Bella and you you know saying Oh wow. Selena was just trying to be nice. How could do that? But SELENA Johnson makes it clear that Bella is a wonderful human being right now. Everybody Hopefully is less upset ability. Because I don't think she did anything wrong here. No and like we said I think Selena Selena. Lina tried to extend some kind of olive branch. Or just maybe a public gesture to show the show. She was feeling who knows or or she's just on a journey for herself and he's she's trying to kind of Mendis relationships that have broken in the past Selena followed Bella a few weeks ago bell has fouled Selena and at and currently still does not fall asleep. So yeah and I mean yeah listen. We don't know what their relationship is like behind the scenes. They could've made up. But I don't think I would be jumping to follow. Selena Gomez either fouls Bella Hadid Selena can trial. She wants and that's nice of her but I don't think it's mean of Bella Hadid to not give in you don't you don't have no insist. Selena is the one who dated bell is his boyfriend. If that it makes sense that selena would be the one to try and reach out not vice versa. Like yeah Selena's one dating her her acquaintance or friend. I don't know what their relationship was really before that boyfriend. Yeah so and got and got smack without on follow when that happened. Like one bell on followed Selena Ryan started dating. Who wants to see that Shit? You don't WanNa Take Selena in the weekend Oliver your page so at least this clears it up up for people who think that Selena was upset about ballad leading the picture because now it seems like they definitely have talked. Yeah definitely because I doping selena would have commented that no. I don't think she would have said that if there wasn't communication between the two of them where she was like. This was all misunderstanding. Like don't be hurtful. I think that definitely shows shows that she and fellow had some kind of conversation. Either he the listed names of yours get once twice. Look what you made me to what you do what you do. Look what do what Sumit Tim me to see me. Do Look what you just made me you guys know. We are always talking about celebrities. The latest celebrity gossip. What's going on? WHO's on the red carpet? And if you want to make sure that your teeth are up to celebrity standard then you need to be using candid. And it's that time of year obviously holiday seasons you're taking so many photos or with friends and families smiling all over the place and you want to be as confident as possible. Candidates Alliance can help straighten your teeth faster and cheaper than traditional wire braces treatment takes six six months on average and cost sixty five percent less an experienced orthodontist who is licensed in your state creates a custom treatment plan. Then they show you a three three d preview so you can see how your teeth will look after you're done candid. stleiners are comfortable removable completely invisible. There's no hassle of going to an orthodontist office. KENNETT ships liners directly to you plus in this season of giving candidate donates twenty five dollars with each liner purchase to smile train. 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Dm Me and said since you talked about Taylor. Swift t on the pod. Just thought so you know scooter. Braun is searching his name on twitter and suing people who are tweeting about him. One of my friends tweeted a memo about him and had his name in it but didn't tag him and it only got like five retweets. Scooter DMT him and is suing him for Cyber Bullying. The girl then sent me the DM from scooter. Raw and Scooter Braun wrote really question. Mark ask ask Ori ask Tori Demi Ashley Carly and many others bat. If Taylor would finally respond to me she would see different. What is being said is not the truth? I wish you well so skirt. O'Brien really is like responding to scooter snapped a little bit. I mean Yeah I think scooter when the little guy. He's he's just sending that to random people either that or he has somebody from his company like doing this for him right. Respond to dam like like reaching out to people on twitter into try and explain himself like yes. People work in damage control on social media. You had not not agree. Look from scooter. I think to just be obviously just answering random people because or going out of his way to talk to people who haven't DMT him personally. They're just make jokes about him on twitter. I mean you just have to accept the fact that people are GonNa make jokes about you on twitter. Yeah yeah definitely. That's one that you just kinda have to eat. Move on your obvious. Stop every joke from you yet. You're not going to take down every Taylor Swift Fan. That's good luck with that. That's impossible so as just doesn't seem like a practical response to who all of this but this is not going to be. This is going to be the end Taylor. Swift is going to fight these guys till her last time breath. I I think pretty much so basically now. The American music awards were. What are these awards? We've been talking about these awards so much November twenty forth. Okay so there. What what does that this weekend? What's today the nineteenth? Yes okay so he so. She's apparently she's my not even play any of the old songs now and that's what. TMZ was saying like she's been practicing her. She's at her whole routine done anyway. Obviously see the show is this week is all you can just toss old songs in there when the performance is probably already done now page six is reporting that music industry industry sources sources are telling page six that Taylor will fight back against Braun and Scott and everything in her much anticipated performance. Um and in his speech as she accepts the decade award at Sunday's ceremony they add that swift could also joined onstage by her close friends and artists who have supported her her like Selena Gomez Cashew and Halsey one music insider told page. Six Taylor would turn her ama performance into a huge moment and a powerful message. We we are expecting to see artists such as Selena. Join her on stage. As part of a fierce show a female artistic strength and empowerment then when accepting her award Taylor will likely make a statement about artists being able to own their masters the music they created and how she feels she has been treated by scooter and Scott. Her friends are all going going to be pushing her message. On the red carpet Taylor is going to play dirty with elegance and grace. So this kind of reminds me of Tasha's very powerful powerful performance. You remember that it was great. And I'm excited I'm getting teary eyed thinking about Taylor. Swift and Selena Gomez performing together. Obviously hopefully there's more artists that join her on on. Stay Literally I. I just got goosebumps thinking about it. I'm sure whatever they have planned is going back and we are smart so this is going to be very very cool to see and she's obviously going to you know. Stand up to scooter and Scott Front of subtle large crowd. I mean obviously doing it on instagram and whatnot. Yeah one thing thing but when she's actually actually see her saying it. It's gotta be a whole different story. I mean it's going to blow up even more skewed Lebron's going to lose his mind. It's going to be crazy to see what happens for the future because I think we not that we personally have gotten flack for kind of siding with Taylor Swift but we I've seen people who are on the other side obviously in the music ticket industry and that's how that's how it works. That's how they make money. That's how it's always been done by feel like Taylor is taking a stand because once it's very important and it's important to her and thinks she also is doing it too Basically provoked change to have this a conversation in the future ever artists to have a different kind of process when they are making their own music and signing contracts right right to be a legislative win. I understand that this is this is the business and this is how it works but I feel like what Taylor is. Mission here is to change that baton and to make it more beneficial for the actual person creating the music and not just the bigwigs sitting up in their big offices at the record labels right so whatever she says. On Sunday it will be powerful powerful. Yeah I'm very excited to see what happens and I'm sure I'm sure Taylor. Swift is the easiest person to work with a pretty fair however you can't knock her refer like big machines that you can perform her songs four days before the show like what is she going to do change. Whatever she's been planned like yes because there are her old songs and she could sing? I of course interesting. She has like no no but I'm sure she's a whole like it's a whole production elections getting the artists of the decade. Like I'm sure there's been weeks and weeks of planning this performance and staging it and dancers and props and this that and the other thing. You can't just kind of like Oh shoot. Let's change the whole thing like throw a bunch of old songs. We've been planning to do something different. I don't know because she is Taylor swift and I I feel like she can change. Whatever she wants? The reason why I have a problem with that statement is because I think that they said that after she made a whole big bat cracked and they were like. Oh no no no you can because they she called them out like. I don't think that they said that just to be like. Oh yeah tell her yeah. They said that because she called about or else else they wouldn't have said that. Yeah in my opinion. And she probably she probably does have a grudge and she probably does have a vendetta against these guys but she these guys own her music the guy she probably hates them with the power of like a thousand burning Sundays. So I think that's fair because I think you just have to put yourself in in an an artist or celebrity situations sometimes put yourself in their shoes just to see how you would feel if you were Taylor swift and somebody said Hey Taylor you can't sink to your jobs guitar you'd say Fuck Fuck you I wrote that Song Right and this all the other and yes. This is the standard in the music industry. And this is how it goes and people don't own their own masters but they I like artists kind of just gone with it in Taylor I feel is just one of the first people who has fought against it so that that and labels her like tobacco drama Queen Right. I don't think there's any problem with fighting against something that you obviously don't think is right so she clearly there is very passionate about and I'm sure there's many the artists who sit there and they say okay. Okay okay because they feel you know they want they want to keep their job. But Taylor swift is big enough that she can speak up about those things which I respect. When you're such a big star to not just sit there and and okay everybody right so that you can be more likable right? I mean if you got to stick up for yourself you've got to stick up for yourself. Yeah so I mean but once again once you get into this people on the people who know the business side of music angry with it people think Taylor Sarai those in the industry. You don't see it at all Taylor Swift Taylor fan support Taylor tons of people out there. Who Don't like Taylor at all and hate that she's doing this? I mean I I would. Would I said when I tell our swift is looking for pity. Yeah you and I just don't. I don't think it's this time around. I don't think that you would put out this angry of a statement right if somebody wasn't really fucking with you. Yeah we'll see what happens this weekend. I'm very I'm very excited to see her performance and the messages that come out of it. Because it's GonNa be something that's for sure. Scarborough is going to go into hiding this weekend. Retreat Promo another main. Take this sound and you take eh one more. Yeah this is some good news. Motley crue is coming back on tour area which see I have I avalon thoughts about okay so a lot of people sent this to me. And they're like Oh my God we gotta go gotTa go and I get that I probably will go be. I always said that I want and I. I know you're GONNA say go say it. They're just all hot. Yeah I was going to say I feel like you would want to see Bali crew hot like in in there'd Prime Ryan. I don't WanNa see old. No offense Vince. Neal get up there. I'm sorry that's looking. Tommy Lee. I know what they look like. Yeah Yeah Yeah Super. And they're not what they used to to be not just facts like I'm sorry that's just I'm sorry for being honest right and saying they look like Shit but you know it done a lot of shit to make them look like share and now they probably do. I even think they sound the same. I don't we'll see and also like I mean I don't I don't I'm GonNa hold on because I don't want to start getting route because you know obviously this is very cool. Yeah and it's exciting to watch the video. Yes I did. He does pretty sick. And it's very exciting for them and they you know they were so cool and like once again. They're not partying right the same aspect. It isn't there yeah. Then what what I saw. Now the Motley crue fans who have been around from the beginning are so down for this like it's barrel. They're older or and they have grown and it's the same kind of situation. What I thought was interesting? A especially in their kind of press statement that they put out is they cited. How successful successful? The dirt was on Netflix. And just like how the dirt has basic created a whole new generation of Motley crue fans and this is like a whole different and demographic that they didn't have before that they're hoping that these younger kids come out to the show right like myself right totally and it's funny because when I read it I was I was thinking like yes. They're all you have you. They have created a whole new group of fans of their music but like the a twenty one year old girls who are now wanting to go to like a motley crue show might be going into like they wanna see machine gun Kelly up there but I I wanNA. Let's see Douglas booth. Yeah playing Nikki. Six right hot as thought right in that movie on stage. Yeah you know I wanNA see Tommy Louis. How many years years ago? ONSTAGE I do not WanNa see Tommy Lee now on state no offense once again. They Russia's they will. I have a feeling that whatever they do it will be big. See I need well. I know what they will do. We'll be big because first of all when you'RE GONNA have to go I will probably end up going because Just because I feel like I I should go. You know I feel like people around like Robbie go screw will for sure go. Yeah and it'll be a blast. It will definitely be a blast and I'm so you know I love all the songs I would go. I love all the songs so I feel like just being able to hear them. Play the music and generals fucking awesome. Yeah like I totally get that so when I keep saying how much I look like shit I know how shitty that makes me sound because obviously the music is still good. I'm just worried that they are not going to sound the same because I think that my dad's saw Vince. Neil Perform in maybe it was big. I forget maybe it wasn't even Vince Neal but I if I remember correctly I think it was and I think he said Eddie sounded like Shit so and he's obviously the lead singer and he also doesn't look well. Yeah so I'm just nervous that that they might not sound the same and then it kind of just brings it down but maybe they will sound the same and maybe it will be awesome. Yeah yeah I I don't WanNa go back to. Oh but we're sorry. What I was saying was when Travis Scott did his whole setup homily very very very upset with Dr Scott saying China has got stole? Well the roller coaster so I think that they are going to make this really really cool which is also. I think it's worth seeing. Because they're they're gonNA throw some crazy shit in there. They used to do that all the time he got out at Travis Scott for doing so I think they're just going to amp it all the way up. Whatever happens to be get delivered here? Somebody tell me please. The we are here With Andrea Barbara who plays Gabler on full House most recently fuller house. She has a new book out called Full Circle from Hollywood life to real life and and back again. We are so excited to have you here. Thank you for coming. Thanks guys. We're here we're just frigging. We Love Full House. We Love Full House. And can we just read your book this past weekend the way we read on the beach it was so nice. Oh thank you thank you. This has been a long time in the making this is is my baby is like birthing a baby. It took longer than nine months. So I'm really really proud of it and thank you for your Nice word. Yeah how What was the writing process like for you? Well well. This is the first book I've ever written. I mean I consider myself a writer because I majored in English literature and I did a masters degree so I wrote a thesis. So I've I've been writing a lot but yeah I didn't know how to write a book and I knew it was going to be pretty linear from birth till now but I didn't want to be like page one. I was born No the best advice I got was just to set aside two hours a day. Shut off your phone. Don't make sure people can't contact you and just word vomit neon to the page and just whatever comes out comes comes out And do that for two or three weeks after that you can kind of see how things are taking shape and Yeah I did and I wrote most of during a four month period when I had hate as from from floor house And Yeah it was great and I had I had great editors who were very helpful with feedback and kind of guiding me where I needed to expand more or delete some really awkward. Yeah no just having a great a great team yeah great publishing team behind me very hopeful. Did you know that you've always want to write a book or did something inspire. You always wanted to write a book. This is a this is a bucket list. Yeah item for me. I used to write books when I was seven years old I would get like construction paper and cardboard and I would like tape little together and make stories stories and so I knew I always wanted to write a memoir. I've thought I would right right one when I was older when I had lived most of my life right but and then people brought up to me. They were like well. You know you've got the audience now with success people who who would want to hear your story now and listen distanced. Oh I thought okay. Well I'm in my forties I'm not done living my life yet but it's a good time to kind of reflect on life lived so far and I think it was great too because because you kind of have these book ends of Full House and Fuller House and I think so. Many people are so curious about what the in between was what. What were you doing doing so I think that is a good marking for the book like it has a beginning a middle and an kind of an obviously not an answer it? It does come very full circle Fuller House on Friday night. We just wrapped nights ago so this it says a very full Circle Journey and when I when I- reemerged you know after twenty years of being out of the spotlight people were like. Can we gabler where she bent. She's doing nothing for twenty twenty years and I'm like I've actually really you know I've been out of the spotlight but you know I got a bachelor's degree master's degree I had two kids and got married. Yeah I did an internship for the United Nations and Switzerland. I mean I did a lot. I just didn't do it in Hollywood. I wanted to kind of get my story out there and tell people I've been through some pretty significant things both positive and challenging and this is it. This is my whole story this. Yeah this is the best way to get to know me right and you start off in the book talking about Your Childhood Acting Years and obviously you started doing commercials which was very important and now it's so crazy seeing how much has changed with streaming and everything because I'd I obviously am not Gabler but my childhood acting and commercials were still a huge part of your resume. Now I'm just just wondering why is it still a thing I don't think they I don't know if I'm sure they're out there but people just either you have a DVR mm fast forward through them or you have a streaming service and there's no commercials at all but yeah as a child actor that I had a resume pages and pages of McDonald's commercials and Barbie commercials in you know Frozen fish sticks just rewrite random commercials. That's what child actors did And so now I don't I guess now it's more about Using social media to promote the products and doing paid sponsorships and ads. I think that's what's the new commercial. Those days. The landscape has changed a lot in the last twenty. Thirty years definitely has and did you. What made you want to be an actor because because you talk about how you were like a little shy and Kimmy Gabler was more of you know so confident and everything and I feel like? That's a common theme with actors that you hear about where they're like. I'm really shy and then people are like. How can you be shy but it happens? Yeah well I fell into ax fell into acting by accident. I talk in the book a little bit about that Because I was four. It's not like I made the decision. I'm going to be concerned about you. Know what's my next meal But my family did lots of community plays together like a Christmas Carol and the king and I and so I was kind of discovered by agent that way And my parents it's being clueless. They were like sure. Let's go auditioned for an agency. What that life is like So my brothers and I both worked in the industry for most of Ver- tiled hoods and when my brother's got to high school. They decided they didn't like it and didn't WanNa do it anymore. They just WanNa play volleyball and be normal student and when I got to high school I was on a hit. TV show called full House. Yeah so I enjoyed it very very much so I stuck with it until until Until full house ended my serve Sir Freshman Year of College So yeah I I. I never made a conscious choice to start acting but I enjoyed it and my parents were very supportive supportive in that. They said we're going to do this. This is not a career like this is a hobby right. You know like the the boys play volleyball. You Act. This is your after school sport and and the minute. It's no longer fun you can quit. There's no pressure to keep going. So you know having that lack of pressure enabled me to enjoy it that how much more and how. Because obviously we have social media now and that's a huge way to gauge. How popular show is doing well? Not Dwell when full House House was on. That didn't exist. Wayne's when did you realize that full house was as big as it was well back in those days we had Nielsen Ratings. And so that's the only way we knew that we were. You know top ten show on the networks Those numbers were very like what what is what is that. I couldn't really really grasp yet. Like millions and millions of people are watching the show. But you didn't really feel it do these days But then we went as a cast to Walt Disneyworld to shoot. Shoot an episode for two weeks so such a great episode isn't it And that was the first time I really felt like a celebrity because people over following US around and we had security guards protecting us and the fans would follow us into the bathroom and past past notes under the stall. And so you can have your autograph. But I'm like this is weird. Oh my gosh would you sign it back no. I can't wait to get out of the bathroom. Really Strange I think that's the first time I really felt the impact of the show and how big it was And then from that from then on you you know I would get recognized a lot when I went out in public and I I was still as normal of child is possible. I went to regular high school as much as I could on my days off Ron on my weeks off and the kids. They're recognized me as well so but I I tried. I tried to keep it as as normal as possible and I found my from my tribe in high school and my friends who just enjoyed me for me and not because I was a celebrity and those are the kids I hung out with. It's crazy to me because I can't imagine angie now like any actor on like a hit show being able to just go to their normal high school it really is it sunny don't they. Yeah I don't think it does. But the kids that are on Fuller House. They urged just tutored full-time on the set. I don't think they do go to Mohi school. Because you have a bunch of photos in your book as well and there's like you getting ready for high school dance and like everybody from full houses in the picture with you which which is just so cool because I think you kind of got the best of both worlds like the show but you also have a taste of real high school life which. I don't think a lot of kids definitely now and I attribute that to keep me well-grounded Because I didn't my my heart wasn't in Hollywood like I enjoyed it but it wasn't everything and I. I really loved going to Basketball Games on Friday nights and I loved going to school dances. And our producers on full house were Very family oriented and really wanted to put the kids first. Yeah before the production of the show which is how I got to to go to my senior prom even though it was on a Friday night. A tape night They scheduled the schedule. So I would take all of my scenes I or pre-tape some them so I could leave the taping early and go and go to my prom actually was a winner. Formal but Yeah I mean that's just unheard of the most. Now it's just like everything is just like no no. No the show comes first our producers really put the people I disagreed. It was awesome. I I want to ask because I after read the book. I'm so intrigued by this. Because it doesn't really exist anymore. The the cruises like the cruise with the stars. Oh we use about this sale with the stars. I wish this was still like. It's a little dangerous now or no. Maybe this very innocent back in the. Yeah you'd get to go on a cruise with Tia and Tamara. Maury and Genevan Oy from blossom and Yeah the full House girl would just like all of this hang with with fan. Oh you gotTA events there. They had scheduled events. So there'd be like an autograph signing session and then there'd be like a line dancing. Yeah session and we did have where we could just be by ourselves. We were just constantly partying with the fans but there was a lot of access and yet it was fun. That's and I go on new kids on the block cruises now which is like. That's so cool. Let's get stuck for four days. See my favorite way band and so that was it back in the hang out with your favorite nineties nineties. Kids Stars for that is insane. That sounds like a blast. I'm pretty jealous. So we don't have that now but once again I feel like it always goes back to social media just like grads another everybody's excessively right. You also talk about in your book just working on set with Bob Saga Same Os and we've interviewed Bob before and okay. We were not to expect because everybody's you know his some of his jokes or you know a little nasty. Sometimes he acts like Danny Tanner and we were fine with either one. Like whatever Bob we get. I'll deal with entourage Bob. I'll deal with full House Bob. Whichever one and he came in and just went full dad mode on Just kept saying like oh no. I can't say that he needs and he just went full. Danny Tanner and he gave us. Nice lesson EPA. It was very very very sweet was so nice. It was just so nice but I'm wondering what it was like for you guys beyond site. Were you hearing these jokes or were you guys kind of blind to IT I. I think he's really good at reading a room so he knows when to be appropriate to not be appropriate depending on. He's doing a comedy show. Anything goes yeah. It's just whatever. Come whatever comes out of his mouth is ever comes out of his butt on the set he was very much a dad to us on the set and he has three daughters as of his own. So it kind of paralleled. His Danny Tanner Life But then you get them with John Stamos and Dave and they act a little bit like Frat boys then the inappropriate jokes start coming out but we are. You know our our moms were onset too so they would just be like Bob. The finger would come out and they'd be like Bob The you no. The girls are around so they the the guys would reel it in and keep it G. rated win win right around news so funny he bob did our show also did KABC radio show here. And that's two guys that are more like not I wanted. I wanted to say guy friends or but yeah they're just more dudes who's in their thirties. And like all my Auntie so like when we both came out of our interviews if we had two totally different. Bob's really like. Oh my God he said had this and that and we were like he told us to make sure that our drinks ever get roof either never accept drinks from a stranger life lessons thousands and it was awesome. Yeah Danny the Danny. Tanner is folks. We he is so loving and he is such a big heart yeah and then we just wrapped fuller house last week and he was just so emotional for the entire last week. It just you can tell how much the show meant to him and how much how much we all mean to each other other. So yeah. There's a Bob. Saga has a big heart and I love him so much and you posted a video of you guys doing Karaoke. You're singing the theme song one last time I guess before you wrapped up. What are your thoughts? Now that it's over I mean thought over for us because We're very sad last week. It was tough. I'll admit We were all crying because we've done. We've done this before we. We said goodbye once twenty years ago and we know how hard heard that was Back then reboots weren't a thing so we thought this is it. Yeah this is it. We'll never see each other again. We'll never do these characters again and of course we saw each other again so now now we know will always be in each other's lives but we missed the the day to day in bringing these characters to life. I'm going to Miss Plane. Kimmy Gabler so much much. Because she's such a fun character play and It's this family feeling doesn't just mean the cast like that extends to our crew as well so so you know our first day. Dr Second ad are lighting. Guys are camera operators like we were all a family and many of them worked on the original show too too so they were working with us as little girls and now as as young moms so it was it was very sad to say goodbye. And I'm I'm sorry it's over because I don't feel like It should be. I think a lot of stories still to be told. I wish we could have gotten a few more seasons out of it but I know that five seasons on net afflicts is a really good thing and we're grateful for those five seasons every day every day. We were grateful again. I absolutely love Fuller House. I thought like the dynamic between you and candice and Jodi it kind of as adults was so cute to watch and then obviously with your kids on the show like I love him gambler. Kimmy Gabler as a mom. I thought it was Kinda like different. Kimmy but a great kimmy. How did you guys feel to have have now? This whole new group of child actors on set like where you'd super protective over them. Because you knew what that was like can't we were. We were protective but We're also a little hard on him too because we know we were like we've been through this so we know you know when it's time to work it's time to work in. Don't bring food onset and leave your phones interesting room so we were Kinda like moms. Were like hey if we did it for eight years you guys can do it too But at the same time we love the kids and you know it was a huge thing to come into to this this juggernaut this legacy of of the show. Yeah and play the new kids so that was that had to be tremendous pressure in the kids handled it so well and they were such a great addition it was such. It was such a natural thing to bring them into our our fuller full and fuller family. They fit right in and and I don't think if they were intimidated they didn't show it. That's great we're what was it like when they came to four Fuller House because obviously you had been taking the time offer you know twenty years and then all of a sudden they come back to you with this idea. Yeah I can remember the exact moment jeff. Franklin called me out of the blue and asked like he didn't even beat around the Bush. He was just like you WanNa come back and became a giver for you. Know the the spin off this reboot and I was like yes because yes characters great. I know the people I trusted are executive producers to protect the legacy of the show and do a really good job. We didn't want to do who a movie like a like a Brady bunch or something you know we really wanted to honor the legacy of the show. And so I I trusted are executive producers and I was on board ward. Yeah from the very beginning. Jeff had this clear idea that he wanted to to do a flip of the original series so instead of three men raising three girls. It's three three women. Yeah raising three boys plus Ramona. Yeah and it was great. We it took a long time to sell the show we got. We got rejected by network After network after network and for a short time there. I didn't think the show was going to happen. And that was sad because I was like. Oh this seems like such a home run. Couldn't couldn't convince people that are audience would still be invested all these years later and then It took one person at Netflix. who was just like like you know what this is a hit and I believe in it and we're going to give you guys a chance and then look what happened? I'm just fine. So thankful for for Brian. Net Net flags. Who made it all happen? Yeah that's amazing. Did you stay in touch with your other classmates. Jody candice when you had time off during the twenty year break Yeah we always. We always kept in touch. Candice lived in Florida for for like ten years because her husband played hockey for the Pam Tampa Florida Panthers. Yes I don't know I'm like I hope I'm so. She lived in Florida for about a decade. So we didn't see each other every day and Dan you know smartphones really thing you know for a long time so it would be mostly seen each other at milestone events like Bridal showers right or baby showers or weddings So Yeah we've always kept in touch but with the invention of smartphones. It's a lot easier guys sound really and then with social media facebook it it becomes even easier to that and now we can't stay apart like we're always Marco Geico Polo in each other As soon as we as soon as we wrap the show eight always we're on we're on the phone the next hour like we can't each other there It's pretty great so yeah I think we'll stay in touch well. I know we're going to stay in touch but it's probably going to be a daily thing for oil because we're very close close. That's amazing and I feel like that warms all of our hearts because in our dreams like Oh my God their family and made you guys even closer than you were. It's amazing yeah. You are also super vulnerable in this in this book. You talk about that time that you were not acting in their battles with anxiety and depression. Russian divorce What was it like to kind of sit down in open up about those things that nobody in the public really knows about right I it well. It was hard and it was Cathartic And I really loved that process of just sort of reexamining my light as a whole and putting it into words which is it's very healing in a way. it was hard to write about my divorce because that was very painful and Dan very private like I never never talked about it even to most of my friends. I just kept that a secret for a long time and I didn't want to Disrespect my ex husband and because we're very friendly now were friends and were very cordial and I didn't want to wreck that you know but but I wanted to be honest about how hard it was going through that divorce so that chapter was very difficult to rate things eighty chapters. Those were as hard to all right about on oddly enough just because I I feel like I I I lived through it. I survived it. I mean I'm not cured of anxiety eighty and never will be but I was very successful in learning how to manage it in gaining the tools that I needed to not let the anxiety. Zayed's get the best of me and so I felt very confident. I feel no shame whatsoever sharing that part of my life Because it's just it's a part of me and if anyone's going to make fun of it or look down on me because of my mental health struggles. That says a lot more about them than it does about me. I think it's super powerful. So many people people battle with it and and it has a stigma around it. So it's nice to see somebody with a platform obviously speak on it. Because those those who battled the same problems think themselves like oh she was on a hit television show and she still battled the same things that I'm battling so I think it's It's great and as a mom I feel like it's very important because I feel like there's a lot of parents out there that don't really understand anxiety and they just it's like they kind of just brush it off and they don't really listen to their kids and the kids feel like they're kind of trapped because you know oh my parents don't think there's anything wrong with me then you you know this is just normal and I feel like that's not saying that you dealt with that but you thought that it was normal to throw up before every performance on full house and that's just not normal it's called anxiety thing and you have to deal with it I think what I hope the biggest lesson people take away from this book. Doc Is that anxiety depression They don't it doesn't discriminate. Yeah it doesn't matter if you're a celebrity or rich or poor or young or old lake it affects everybody in and Our kids in general like this new generation is more anxious than ever before especially teenagers. Agers and the pressure that is put on them With regards to going to college and then just social media I think is really be damaging to a person self-esteem esteem so Yeah it's important to know that it can exist. He can. I can strike anybody. Can you know it doesn't matter if you've grown up in the perfect family and have the perfect parents parents who've given you everything you've wanted in life like you can still fall apart and that's okay it. What what's what's more important is finding people who do you can surround yourself with who will support you and help you get the help that you need? And that's what my parents did for me like they recognized that I was in a bad place and is rendered me. I couldn't do anything. I was just paralyzed And they made a phone call for me to my a doctor and just said Andrew a really bad spot. What can you do for us and just making that? Phone call was so helpful. Because I couldn't do that. Yeah so yeah I. I hope people people know how important is to even if you don't suffer from anxiety. Depression wreckage trek nuys. Those signs in your loved ones too because anxiety depression so crushing so isolating that. Sometimes you need a loved one to see it in you and say you know what I can tell. You're not right. Okay Yeah what can I do for you and if you don't know what you need I'm going to do something for you. That's so important that Italy that the the onus is on the other person listen to to reach out yet for them yeah right just being more aware general yet on a on a lighter note. Sorry I didn't WanNA BRING HELP I. I think it's so important because it. It's such a huge part of the book so I wanted to talk about it but I also I feel parallel with you because you have this new kids on the block obsession and I have that with the journalist brother great so like when you're talking about Nukus on the block under separating but then getting back together on like this is what just happened to me. Uh Uh back together. I'm going like my sixth show at the end of this week. Isn't that great. It's I want to ask about having the band. They were on Fuller House. That was just such a dream. Come true I I was so giddy like Jodi. Sweden Green is just too cool for any of this like boy band but she just laughs at me anytime. I'm around any of the band members. She's just like you are just like a thirteen year like stressed out about. How do I look? I'm what am I saying. You know I just become a totally different person. I am a fan girl through through and through for thirty years and they still make my heart flutter. Yeah Oh boy that's the path for the. Yeah but it's just real every and everybody. Everybody feels that way about something. Such a great escape music can be so powerful and stall jet can be so powerful too and bringing back those wonderful full feelings of of being free and innocent and youth and it's just a great escape for so many different reasons. Yeah definitely just like bringing back full houses. Yeah full circle which once again it seems like. I'm just throwing puns in there because that's the name of your boat but it's true that it applies to a lot of things and that's what I've heard a lot. I've heard that a lot this week. That people talk about the tough times they've been through. How Fuller House or full House got them through some difficult times whether they were had an illness and were bedridden or they were going through? A depression of their own. Full are full and fuller house. Were like comfort food or just yeah like a good friend that you've known your whole life and it really helped them. I've always thought of the show. Both full House and floor is like a warm hug. Fake sick from school during the day like I knew a full house was on reruns. PM and I would go to the nurse at like eleven thirty tracking. I can get home in time to one. That's loyal all the time I love it. I don't encourage that for that's why we have streaming services watch it when I first kid and then watch it do so. Do we have a date for when this final fuller house. I know the day the public like Netflix has an yet coming very soon. So you won't have to wait too long but I don't want to officially say it because Netflix. I'm super fans. Have some super fans out. There have figured it out Because I think in like Netflix Australia or or Netflix. Like in other countries. They've sort of been doing some digging and they've they've found the date. Yeah so I'll say to those fans you're correct Good I will wait to announce the date until Netflix till again God it and everybody can check out your new book full circle from Hollywood to real life and back again. It's out now. You could buy it in stores. Everywhere anywhere. Books are sold. Yeah thank you so much Andrea for joining us. Thanks you guys. I loved this all right. That wraps up. Today's Today's episode. We hope you have a fantastic weekend. Remember guys the ugly. Christmas sweaters are on sale. Now we have the monitor one with Kris Jenner. We also have the Chris Harrison arson rose one and of course are tied. sweatshirts are in stock and the crop hoodies. Go buy them have a great weekend. And we'll talk. Talk to you guys on Monday Skating lacking Three Susan and I old do you could Hello UH UH. ooh ooh ooh Yeah.

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S14: Unknown America: The Business Plot Pt. 1

Parcast Presents

41:25 min | 6 months ago

S14: Unknown America: The Business Plot Pt. 1

"In the nineteen thirties a group of wealthy conspirators plotted to overthrow the president. Or did they if you enjoy. Rooting through controversies coincidences and cover-ups. You'll love the thrilling podcast series conspiracy theories every week question official narratives in reexamined. What you know. Follow conspiracy theories free on spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. On november twenty four th nineteen thirty four a slim figured hunchbacked man sat before the special committee on un-american activities they were an investigative panel that operated as part of the house of representatives. The man's name was general smedley butler and he had information. The committee needed to here. Butler began his to our testimony by stating that his interest had always been to maintain democracy in the united states but the testimony that followed left the committee in complete disbelief. Butler claimed he was recruited by a member of the american legion. Gerald mcguire to enact a plan and not just any plan mcguire wanted to stage a fascist coup to overthrow the president of the united states of america and his administration in the end. The committee determined butler's testimony had no credibility. The simple version is that butler was lying but some people can't help but wonder if the us government went to great lengths to prevent the evidence for butler's testimony from seeing the light of day. Welcome to conspiracy theories. apar- cast original every wednesday. We dig into the complicated stories behind the world's most controversial events and search for the truth. I'm carter roy and i'm molly brandenburg and neither of us are conspiracy theorists but we are open minded skeptical and curious. Don't get us wrong sometimes. The official version is the truth. But sometimes it's not you can find episodes of conspiracy theories and all other podcast originals for free on spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts to stream conspiracy theories for free on spotify. Just open the app and type conspiracy theories in the search bar pat park asked. We are grateful for you our listeners. You allow us to do what we love. Let us know how we're doing reach out on facebook and instagram. At par cast and twitter at podcast network. This is our first on the business plot in the nineteen thirties. President franklin delano roosevelt's new programs and policies sought to revitalize the united states following the great depression. But there were those that feared. His politics verged on socialism. According to general smedley butler that fear led to a fascist plot to overthrow the roosevelt administration. This episode will explore the factors that contributed to america's great depression and how roosevelt's policies turned the economy back around will also recount in detail butler shocking testimony to the special committee on un-american activities on november twenty fourth nineteen thirty four next week. We'll dive even deeper into his claims. Before exploring the truth behind our one and only conspiracy theory. That butler was telling the truth about a plot to overthrow. The president and the government tried to cover it up on october. Twenty four th one thousand nine hundred ninety nine. The new york stock market crashed. What followed has become known as the great depression. Bits difficult to pinpoint exactly when the american great depression was set into motion but many researchers like the national bureau of economic research have attributed it star to other countries abandoning the gold standard during world. War won the gold. Standard is a currency system where the value of every fixed monetary unit like say. A dollar is reinforced by real physical gold nations. That honor the gold standard have fixed exchange rate between each other. The problem is it only allows for small increases value during world war one. A few european countries started creating paper currency that was backed by gold hoping that its value might increase faster by having more money in circulation. They believed it would help the country's economy get back on its feet. These nations had every intention of returning to the gold standard once. They were able to but what they didn't account for was the impact it would have on inflation especially in regard to the prices of imports exports which had a major effect on the united states economy at the end of world war. One united states. Economy was booming. On employment was as low as one point. Four percent as people use their wealth to buy more goods like cars home appliances radios thousands of new jobs were created and they were created just in time for veterans to come home to work then in nineteen twenty. Four congress passed the world war adjusted. Compensation act also known as the bonus act. It allowed veterans. Who served in world war one to collect bonuses for wages lost while serving in the war. The catch was these payouts. Wouldn't be made available until the day of the veterans birthday in nineteen forty-five if they were to die before that year the funds would be given to their estate but with a new and booming economy. There weren't many who complained and with the promise of cash on the horizon. Taking out a loan in the president didn't seem like much of a risk in addition to this. It's important to note that the us was among the few nations who had remained on the gold standard through world war one which meant that people kept their investments in american banks. As a result the banks were wealthy enough to give credit lines to the everyday person but they were given out perhaps more freely than they should have been and with high interest in essence borrowed money flooded the economy and made it appear healthy but behind the scenes debt was on the rise meanwhile countries who had backed off the gold standard during the great war were now trying to return to it but finding it hard with their war debts and rising interest rates and at the end of the nineteen twenties. The debt bubble burst leading to the worst economic disaster in us history president. Herbert hoover took office in nineteen twenty nine. Just as the economic downfall began he enacted certain and policies that played a role in relief. Efforts like launching public works programs and increasing federal subsidies for farmers as republican. He believed in limiting the federal government's power but that led him to being blamed for not doing enough many people especially veterans viewed hoover's limited power stance as a blatant disregard for the turmoil happening in the country. He wasn't doing enough. They had just risked their lives for the well. Being of their country during world war one returning home to a job was the least. They should expect by the end of october. Nineteen twenty nine. Millions of stock shares. Were sold off in an effort to get out of a crippling market then on october twenty fourth a day that would become known as black thursday. The stock market finally failed as a result. People started spending less money and hoarding their gold. The decline in consumerism meant less production. Less production led to decreased wages and increased layoffs at the height of the great depression. Nearly twenty five percent of american workers were unemployed for context the unemployment rate in october. Two thousand nine during the recession was ten percent in december. Two thousand nineteen. It was three point. Five percent from nineteen thirty to nineteen thirty. Two american banks were failing. People began removing their money demanding cash. The problem was that banks who operated out of the federal reserve. Didn't have the funds to liquidate. Every account and veterans were hit particularly hard. They soon began to realize that they probably weren't going to get the money. They were promised from the bonus act but now is when they needed it most. They will have feeling defeated and angry resentful of the same country. They had just risked their lives for then. On june fifteenth nineteen thirty to the senate rejected the right pat bonus bill that would have delivered. Certificates guaranteeing that bonuses to veterans would be redeemable in one thousand nine hundred. Forty five the postwar promise. No longer look like guarantee veterans. Felt like they've been robbed. So twenty thousand of them organized a march on washington they call themselves the bonus army and they immediate payment of the money. They were promised they refused to leave dc until they were paid but morale was low and tensions were high james van. Zandt the head of the veterans of foreign wars and walter w waters. the bonus. Army commander needed a way to prevent an outbreak of violence. They decided to invite major. General smedley darlington butler to the camps. The fifty one year old marine had served in the spanish american war the philippine american war and world war one. He had received medals for courage skill bravery and leadership. They figured that his presence might give the men hope. When butler arrived in dc in july there were thousands of veterans camping in tents and shacks alongside the anacostia river. He spent the night talking one on one with many of them. He learned their food and supplies. Were running dangerously low. Though they were on the brink of a riot butler encouraged them to practice peaceful protest. He told them they may be calling. You tramps now but in nineteen seventeen. They didn't call you bums. If you slip over into lawlessness of any kind you will lose the sympathy of one hundred twenty million people in the nation. Ironically it was president hoover who slipped into lawlessness. i on july twenty eighth. He ordered the us army to expel the bonus. Army hoover's troops descended on the camps and shanties burning veterans tents and all of their belongings. They were trying to force them. Out of washington. Horrified butler began calling politicians and ask them to show support for veterans. The democratic governor of new york franklin delano roosevelt agreed to help in any way he could in fact later that year. Fdr ran for president on the promise of hope for veterans and american citizens alike his signature plan new deal for the american people proposed distribution of wealth. That put the people. I it also tried to adapt existing policies to meet the needs of the time. Fdr defeated hoover in a landslide. Victory on march fourth. Nineteen thirty three. On the day of his inauguration. Roosevelt declared the only thing we have to fear is fear itself. And after years of turbulence roosevelt's new deal seemed like it might just eliminate americans fears. His first hundred days in office were legendary. He urged people to put their savings back into the banks and they listened by the end of his first month. Nearly three fourths of american funds were returned. He passed a wide variety of lost through congress all designed to restore the country to its former glory and for the first time in history. The united states abandoned the gold standard. Roosevelt believed that more paper money in circulation would jump start the united states economy and get them out of the depression. Many americans commended roosevelt's swift action. But not everyone in particular. Some members of the upper classes feared his politics were to progressive. They likened his programs and policies to socialism. But if they were going to do anything about it they needed a man capable of gaining a lot of support in a short amount of time they needed general butler coming up the plot to take down. Fdr this episode is brought to you by the university of arizona. Wonder is more than a mere state of mind. It's more complex than curiosity. More purposeful than a dream wonder moves us. It drives us forward and compels us to explore. It makes us find new leanings. Develop new skills consider new points of view it makes us engage challenge questioned the status quo. Wonder makes us listen. It makes us learn. It makes us discover who we are at the university of arizona. Wonder makes us. What will wonder make you. This episode is brought to you by the real cost and the fda if you vape you could be inhaling toxic metals into your lungs to make you feel how scary that is. We could have gone town with some real scary music thrown in some zombie sound effects or some blood curdling screaming and over the top shrieking you get the point but nothing is as scary as the facts. Vaping and deliver toxic metals like nickel and lead in your lungs. That's metal in your lungs read up about the dangers of aping on the real cost dot gov now back to the story when fdr was elected in nineteen thirty to the great depression was in full swing and his new deal programs. Were attracting a lot of attention. Most of that attention was positive but some people felt that his plans for the american economy aired on the side of socialism and according to one man that was enough for a group of wealthy elites to try and get rid of him before we go any farther. We want to mention that. The events were about to recount are based on the testimony of that man general smedley butler and butler alone. The united states congress heard the story and determined it was incredible nevertheless. Here's the story he told on july. First nineteen thirty. Three general butler received a phone call at his home in philadelphia. It was a representative from the american legion of veterans organization aimed at providing support to world. War one veterans. It's important to note that at the time there were those who believe the organization had ties to big business and anti-labour sentiments both of which would have seemingly defied the men and women. The american legion represented butler was one of those people. The caller informed butler that there were two men on their way from connecticut. To meet with him. They only asked for a couple hours of his time. Calls like these were common for butler. He often spend his days in meetings with fellow veterans. Just needed someone who would listen and empathize but butler was shocked when limousine pulled up in front of his home. The men inside introduced themselves as bill. Doyle the commander of the american legion in massachusetts and jerry. Maguire the commander in connecticut butler invited them inside for refreshments in conversation. One situated mcguire got right down to business. He told butler that the legionnaires were unhappy with the current administration and they would like butlers help. Removing president roosevelt and his supporters from office butler was skeptical is pre established. Fear of the american legion's relationship with big business interests immediately raised a red flag but he heard them out. Doyle in maguire explained that they wanted butler to attend the american legion convention in chicago in october not only attend but be a speaker and deliver a boisterous speech to rally attendees around one message. Get rid of the leaders of the american legion and return to the gold. Standard butler declined. He had no interest in getting into bed with politics of the legion. Or being a talking head for someone else's vision he wasn't even invited to the convention and that's when things took a turn that butler wasn't expecting mcguire and formed his name used to be on the distinguished guest list but when the list was taken to the white house for approval butler was removed by f. d. r. himself. Maguire said that the president was specific about the fact that he did not want butler at that convention. It was all very confusing. Butler had publicly endorsed president roosevelt. He had even gone so far as to denounce his opponent. Hoover and hoover's treatment of the veterans. He had a feeling that. Maguire doyle were intentionally attempting to hit him against the roosevelt administration but their motives weren't clear. Butler continued to play into their game asking questions to learn more. Maguire said he had found a loophole to get butler into the conference. He could attend as a delegate from hawaii before the night was over. They'd make sure he had staged time to deliver his speech. It was all too butler declined. Mcguire and left and butler didn't hear anything more for a few weeks but then mcguire doyle returned this time with a new plan. They would have plants in the audience. Butler wouldn't have to win over a crowd. If there are two or three hundred veterans that would be urging him to speak butler told the man that the veterans he knew couldn't afford the trip to chicago and that's when they pulled out a bank book and told him not to worry. We will pay for that. According to butler the donation receipts in the book showed numbers between forty two thousand dollars and sixty four thousand dollars the equivalent of roughly eight hundred thousand dollars and one point two million dollars today. If butler had learned one thing in his career it was that men who are capable of making donations. That large were the same men who fought against the veterans bonuses. He knew there had to be an ulterior motive. But he couldn't figure out what it was. That's when maguire and doyle handed him a piece of paper with the speech they wanted him to deliver according to the plot to seize the white house by jules archer. The speech urged the american legion convention to adopt a resolution calling for the united states to return to the gold standard. So that when veterans were paid the bonus promised to them. The money they received would not be worthless paper. Butler didn't give an answer that afternoon. Maguire returned to butler's home in august of nineteen thirty three in an intimate meeting. With just the two of them butler demanded to know who was behind mcgwire's plan. He understood the role he was supposed to play but he had no intention of being acog in someone else's machine that's when mcguire admitted that there were nine different backers. one of whom was maguire's employer colonel grayson. m p murphy. Murphy was a new york banker who had allegedly provided the one hundred and twenty five thousand dollars that started the american legion back in nineteen nineteen for butler. The news was exactly what he feared. Maguire and the american legion were tangled up in a mess of money from a wealthy banker but maguire insisted that there were no ulterior motives. Maguire's bank boss murphy. Wanted to see the veterans cared for mcguire also hinted that compensation for himself and butler would be healthy but butler was still not convinced. The next time butler and maguire met was on september. First nineteen thirty three one month before the american legion convention in chicago butler was in new jersey addressing regional division of the american legion entirely separate from any conversation. He and maguire had in the past. Butler had no idea that maguire would be present anti never expected mcguire. Show up in butler's hotel uninvited. But according to butler that's exactly what happened. Mcgwire tried to pressure butler into making a decision. A frustrated butler told mcguire that he was bluffing that he didn't have any money. And that's when maguire laid out eighteen thousand dollars worth of cash on the hotel bed. Roughly three hundred and fifty thousand dollars today. The general was certain. The cash was dirty tied. Mcgwire scheme butler knew that every dollar bill in america had a unique number attached to it. If the numbers were traced reported and butler was caught with them he could end up in serious trouble. That is of course if mcgwire really was the villain. Maguire said the cash was from a large donation. he could get smaller bills. If butler preferred it was all too convenient. Butler made up his mind. He told mcguire once and for all that he wanted no part in his plan. And that's when. Maguire felt compelled to reveal the name of a second donor. Robert sterling. clark. Clark was a second lieutenant in the ninth. Infantry in china butler had never met clark but he knew his nickname the millionaire lieutenant he was heir to the singer sewing machine fortune. Maguire's suggested that butler and clarke should perhaps meet to discuss the proposition further. Maybe that might make butler feel more comfortable later. That week general butler received a call from clark. They arranged a time to mead that sunday. When clark arrived on sunday it was just after lunch. They got down to business almost immediately. Clark if butler had read the speech they wanted him to deliver he had and he told clark that it was actually quite gripping to which clark admitted. That speech cost a lot of money which meant butlers. Instincts were right clearly. There were more people involved in the inner workings of this plan than i met the eye. But gripping didn't mean that butler agreed was a content. He likened the script to a big business gimmick and attempt to return economic power back to the wealthy banks and businessmen which is exactly why he had already said no. Clark slyly mentioned butler's house. It had to have a decent mortgage that could easily be taken. Care of butler was gassed. He was being bribed under his own roof. Based on butler's testimony what happened next is a little unclear. We know that butler led clark into his study. A room lined with banners pennants medals and tokens of appreciation from people. He had fought for all of his life. The poor he couldn't betray them as for how the rest of the conversation went butler. Didn't mention exactly. We only know that whatever was said. It led clark to have a sudden change of heart. Clark apparently phoned mcguire and told him. General butler is not coming to the convention. He has given me his reasons and they are excellent ones and i apologize to him from my connection with it. I am not coming either. You can put this thing across. You've got forty five thousand dollars. You've got enough money to go through with it. It's a confirmed fact. That butler did not make an appearance at the chicago convention in october of nineteen thirty three but the american legion passed a resolution to return to the gold standard. Anyway according to butler mcguire paid him a visit afterward mcguire wanted to tell butler in person about the victory. Butler didn't see it as a win. The american legion failed to endorse the veteran's bonus is what they needed to do to support veterans mcguire explained that it was a long game returning to the gold standard would eventually result in the veterans receiving bonuses. That would be backed by true gold. Not just paper. It's not clear. How butler responded but we do know that shortly thereafter mcguire asked butler to speak in boston. At a local soldiers dinner. He would be sent in a private train car for his trip and receive one thousand dollars for his time. It was still a no the next time the two met it was by accident. The general was set to give a speech on behalf of a fellow veterans campaign for office in new york when general but most wire was already there. Mcguire heard that butler was touring with the veterans of foreign wars and that he believed actually supported its veteran members. Unlike the american legion and he was persistent. He asked butler again for his support. He wanted butler to use his tour. Talk to soldiers about rallying to create a quote great big super organization to maintain democracy. Mcguire offered to pay seven hundred fifty dollars for each speech that mentioned the idea of returning the gold standard butler thought. He'd made it clear he would not be bought. Then in august of nineteen thirty four butler received another phone call from mcguire this time asking him if he was available to meet in philadelphia over the past several months. Mcguire had mailed butler postcards from his travels around europe. Despite seeing through the niceties butler agreed to meet mcguire had allegedly spent time in italy. Germany analyzing the role that veterans play in government for example mcguire claimed that mussalini had been made dictator because of his support for the veterans in italy. Mcguire saw that power in one to mimic it. He envisioned setting up an organization for all veterans to support president. Roosevelt butler stopped dead in his tracks. This time last year. Maguire was against roosevelt. Had changed according to maguire. The president was willing to cooperate. Now but butler couldn't wrap his brain around it. If maguire was using mussalini as inspiration there was no way stood for democracy butler s. If the idea was to date the president mcguire insisted it wasn't according to butler maguire said quote. Did it ever occur to you that the president is overworked. We might have an assistant. President somebody to take the blame. We have got the newspaper. We will start a campaign that the president's health is failing everybody can tell that by looking at him and the american people will fall for it in a second now about the super organization. Would you be interested in heading it. Allegedly mcguire also said that a bit of fascism was both necessary and proper in the united states. Fascism meaning a dictatorial state of government where the lead control society with strict class rules. He was implying that they would pay off the president with three million dollars in equivalent of nearly sixty billion dollars today where that number came from is unclear. Maybe it came after a conversation with the president himself but what was clear was the intention. Fdr would serve as nothing more than a symbol for the country with no real powers or duties he would be a puppet to the banks coming up. Butler takes his story public. This episode is brought to you by three m three m has always been driven to improve lives through science and innovation. It's this four thinking mindset. That led three am to invent household items. You've come to know and love like post it notes and command us. But three and believes they have a responsibility to use their science to improve lives and even more ways that's why they're directly responding to the covid nineteen crisis by working on solutions for some of today's biggest challenges as a leading provider of personal protective equipment. Three emma's producing critical products for health care workers and first responders and donating products and money to local and humanitarian aid partners around the globe. They're also making more respirators than ever before with plants working around the clock and expected to produce two billion total by the end of the year helping those on the front lines. Continue the fight. Three m science applied to life. Learn more about how three am is helping the world respond to covid nineteen at three m dot com slash. Cova now back to the story in nineteen thirty. Four jerrald seem aguire. Was trying to rope. General smedley butler into a plan to create a veteran or that would act as the puppet master to franklin delano roosevelt's presidency. The equivalent of sixty billion dollars would go straight into roosevelt's pocket. In exchange for unchecked power. Meaning mcguire was staging a fascist takeover of american democracy butler pretended to be interested in the plan though he claimed he never supported it. He strong mcguire along so that he could do. More reconnaissance. details would be critical of butler. What's going to stop them. Then butler contacted an old friend hall. French french was a reporter at the philadelphia record together. They would take the story public butler detailed all of his encounters with mcguire to french. He even suggested that french meet was mcguire himself to see what he could dig up days later. French published his first three million dollar bid for fascist army. Baird it put everything on the table and of course word spreads powerful circles on a cold dry november morning in one thousand nine. Thirty four butler was called to testify in front of the mccormack dickstein committee about rumors of fascist takeover he entered with confidence is normally hunched shoulders. Were held high. This group officially called the special committee of un-american activities was created in one thousand nine hundred eighty four for members of the house of representatives to investigate communist anti fascist related activities in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight. The committee was formally renamed the house on american activities committee. It isn't certain how the committee new of butler's involvement with mcguire but butler laid most of the information that we've just covered. He also admitted that he told french about his meetings. With mcguire doyle. Interestingly however butler told the committee that he was never sure of the american legion actually had the intention every placing the president or if it was all talk. The next person to testify was french. He claimed that he had met with mcguire in september of nineteen thirty four per butlers request. According to french french's testimony. Maguire told him quote. We need a fascist government in this country to save the nation from the communists who want to tear it down and wreck all that we have built in america. The only men who have patriotism to do it are the soldiers and smedley. Butler is the ideal leader. He could organize one million man overnight. But when maguire was called to testify he told a much different story. He told the committee that yes he had met with butler on multiple occasions. But everything that butler claimed was not true. Interestingly enough however maguire's time-line lined up almost exactly with butler story. There were slight differences. A meeting that butler implied was very long. Maguire said lasted only twenty minutes. Maguire sent postcards but not with an agenda in wind conveniently mcguire couldn't quite remember certain aspects of butler's testimony and the details that he could remember just enough from butler's testimony that he could deny any implication that he was involved in a fascist plot. It became a game of. He said he said without concrete evidence to determine which party was telling the truth. Mcguire claimed that he wanted butler to run for the commander of the american legion and nothing more. That was the reason for his visits. Mcguire said that he never intended to create a committee for the sound dollar. A group of people in support of returning to the gold standard. If butler were to have helped the american legion in any way. Of course he would have been compensated. But maguire never offered unreasonable sums nor did he imply. The american legion had financial backing with political interests during his testimony however mcguire was asked to locate records of a complex financial exchange between himself and an attorney at some point mcguire cash thirty thousand dollars that he inexplicably kept on his person. Mcguire claimed the money was given to him for personal reasons and some of what was intended for the attorney. He had no records to back this up. The committee continued calling more witnesses but the investigation quickly came to a halt. Just two days after butler's testimony on the morning of november twentieth nineteen thirty four. The committee released an official statement saying that they found no evidence to justify further action. The statement read. This committee has had no evidence before it would in the slightest degree warrant calling before it. Such men as john w davis general hugh johnson general harbored thomas w lamont admiral sims or hanford mc neider. Oddly enough. these names had never been mentioned in anyone's testimony which suggested that there was more to the story than what was made public. It also stated the committee will not take cognizance of names brought into the testimony which constitute more hearsay. This committee is not concerned with premature. Newspaper accounts especially when given and published prior to the taking of the testimony and that's how the official investigation ended. It didn't matter that the committee continued to conduct more research until nineteen thirty five. It was enough for the media and the public to turn on butler. They claimed he was trying to instigate a hoax that he was a fraud but was he in the final nine hundred thirty five report from congress. They imply that perhaps butler might've been onto something after all they uncovered evidence that there was indeed a plan but no proof that it was being pursued or executed. What suspicious is that. There were no further actions taken by the government to explore this case further instead. It just went away this week. We followed the case as it was presented to the public. Mcguire insists that he always supported president roosevelt and had no ill will or intentions him but the level of detail in butler's accounts is hard to ignore next week. We'll continue our investigation by analyzing the reports from congress that continued months after butler's initial testimony reports that plainly acknowledged of fascist plot then will assess our one and only conspiracy theory that there was a plan coup-d'etat to overthrow president roosevelt and the. Us did everything they could to cover it. Up will examine that theory through the lens of its three main narratives number one. The mccormack dickstein committee was actually a close conspirator in the plot to overthrow roosevelt number. Two key points were omitted from butler published testimony that were vital and understanding the fascist plot number three wealthy bankers were in on the plot to overthrow. Fdr like for instance prescott bush george w bush's grandfather. Thanks for tuning in to conspiracy. Theories will be back wednesday with new episode. You can find all episodes of conspiracy theories and all other park asked originals for free on spotify not only to spotify already. Have all of your favorite music but now spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy. All of your favorite podcast originals. Like conspiracy theories for free from your phone desktop or smart speaker to stream conspiracy theories on spotify. Just open the app tap browse and type conspiracy theories in the search bar until then remember. the truth. isn't always the best story. And the official story isn't always the truth. Conspiracy theories was created by max cutler. And his parka studios original executive producers include max and ron cutler sound designed by anthony sick with production assistance by ron shapiro carly madden and travis clark. The episode of conspiracy. Theories was written by john lennon with writing assistance. By kate gallagher and stars molly brandenburg and carter roy.

butler mcguire Maguire american legion Us maguire Butler smedley butler depression roosevelt clark Fdr Mcguire Gerald mcguire carter roy molly brandenburg president hoover hoover pat park Four percent
Ep. 188 - An innocent man is about to be lynched in Alabama

The Breakdown with Shaun King

05:05 min | 1 year ago

Ep. 188 - An innocent man is about to be lynched in Alabama

"Today in just a few hours state of Alabama is scheduled to Lynch and innocent black man named woods. The state knows he didn't kill anyone police and prosecutors. No he didn't kill anyone. The governor and Attorney General of Alabama. No he didn't kill anyone. The jury and judge knew he didn't kill anyone. But here we are moments away from a modern day legal lynching It's the single most brutal grizzly act of injustice. I've seen in my entire life. This is Shaun King. You're listening to the right now. The the the break down of the breakdown of the breakdown. One man and one man alone is guilty for the crimes. That nate woods was later. Convicted of his name is Kerry McGuire. Spencer WanNa read a letter that carry wrote carry also on death row. This is a letter from Carey in his own words. My name is Kerry McGuire Spencer. And I'm writing in regards to the march. Fifth Twenty Twenty execution date set for Nathaniel Woods. Your Woods is one hundred percent innocent. I know this to be a fact because I'm the person that shot and killed. All three of the officers that Nathaniel was subsequently charged and convicted of murdering listen to this nathaniel. Woods doesn't even deserve to be incarcerated. Let alone executed. I've confessed to shooting all three of the officers in question. Both when I was first interrogated and also on the stand at my trial but yet instill nathaniel was charged. Tried and convicted unjustly. These continue the words of Kerry Spencer. He says I pray that my words don't fall on blind eyes deaf ears. Don't allow another innocent man to be executed if you can do something. Please put a stop to it. This is my most fervent prayer. Sincerely Carry Spencer. While we like to think that the epidemic of lynching that plagued the United States back in the early nineteen hundreds has basically ended. It hasn't hasn't ended. It's just shape shifted and take it on a new form instead of hanging black folk from trees. We are now shot by police in the streets or killed by the many different machines of mass incarceration is still lynching nonetheless. Don't be full. Nate Woods is innocent which takes me to our final action step with the hope that we can save name off right away as soon as you hear this particularly if it's on Thursday march fifth go to save Nate Dot COM. Take all of our action steps particularly. There's a letter and I want you to fill out the form. It'll send a letter directly to the governor's office don't just hit send type in your own words there. Then there's a phone number and I need you to call. That number will talk you through every step. That's there needed to call it number now and he did call it all day. We need you to post this on your instagram facebook twitter anywhere. You can post it. Share it email it. Text it wherever you can share. Save NATE DOT COM. Share our phone number to everything you can to fight back now. Listen we do all of this knowing full well that they might ignore us. But I need nate and his family and his loved ones to know that we never stop fighting until the very last minute. All right take care of about breaking the bring the bring the bring the spring break. The break the break up of breaks down a break. Break the break the break

Nathaniel Woods Kerry McGuire Spencer nate Twenty Twenty Alabama Kerry McGuire Lynch Spencer Wan Nathaniel Shaun King Attorney United States Carey instagram one hundred percent
Introducing: Crushed

Now For Tomorrow with Deepak Chopra

37:49 min | Last month

Introducing: Crushed

"In all great love stories. There's a point early on of total euphoria when everything seems perfect. Maybe you feel that way for a day a week a month completely out of your minds for me. That feeling lasted entire summer. I was ten and the object of my obsession was baseball. When you love sport the way. I loved baseball. You know exactly when you got hooked the year the game maybe even the exact play you remember it in slow motion the light the colors the sounds in my story that moment came on september eighth nineteen ninety eight a tuesday night in my hometown. Saint louis gorgeous night for baseball. Very hot favourite player mark. Maguire was one home. Run away from breaking the most sacred record in sports. This is the mark. maguire moves. What place in front of roger. I was at a friend's house that night and we were glued to the tv. I was sitting on a toy rocking horse which looked like something from a carousel white and pink with a gold poll. I held onto swayed back and forth ray for a home run jumped off. The horse threw my arms in the air. The horse wrecked forward back and the pulse. Mac me square in the mouth. I tasted something shocking. A sliver of my front tooth had chipped off. But i couldn't have cared less full-time september. Eighth nineteen ninety. My tooth still. Has that chip. My dentist tried to fix it. I wouldn't let him. It's my own weird way of remembering the day. I loved baseball. The most the purest moment of my life is a fan before things got complicated. Here's the other thing about love. Stories the euphoria at never lasts when i was fresh out of school and interning at the dallas morning news. I got the assignment of my dreams. The cardinals were playing in the world series against the texas rangers. I'd never covered the postseason. Before so i followed other writers around the park then down the diamond for batting practice. I scan the field and there. He was not five feet for me. Mcguire he was back in baseball as the cardinals hitting coach his once. Orange goatee was graying and his towering frame had softened at the edges. I was in awe. But at that moment you couldn't have paid me a million bucks to admit i still felt that way. I apologize everybody. A major league. Baseball family was a life. That's maguire on national television when he finally admitted to using anabolic steroids. But it was really just a formality. We already knew my favorite player had cheated. My favorite sport had let it happen and the moment the scandal was at. Its very worst. That's when i got hooked. I'm joan nielsen. I've spent the past decade working as sports writer. And i live by the golden rule of the job. No cheering in the press box. But this story it's personal. It's about more than cheating in sports. It's about feeling cheated. It's about a memory. I want to cherish. But just can't and i know i'm not the only one generation of fans flocked to baseball during the steroid era and now we're left with what exactly are love of baseball is built on a major league lie but somehow when i think back to nineteen ninety eight i still get goosebumps. How do i explain that knowing everything i know. Should i be embarrassed ashamed. Because here's the thing. The magic of the home run race. It helps set me on the path to becoming a sports writer. But i never imagined i'd be investigating that summer for all the reasons it went wrong and all the lives it up ended. But that's what i'm here to do to understand how baseball got hooked on drugs and whether it's ever recovered. This is a story about the legacy of a scandal. This is crushed. So this is a tribute. And just how i remember. One thousand nine hundred ninety eight. That's frank cusimano. A longtime sportscaster at kfc k. In saint louis. I grew up watching him. There's my media pass. Oh my gosh over here. We have this great picture of mcguire and together. He's giving me a tour of his basement which is basically a shrine the ninety eight season. I think i had that sixty two newspaper cover. It was on a tee shirt. And i owned that t shirt. I remember super fashionable great style in fifth grade. I don't know if you want to get into this but sometimes we're looking those photos. It's almost like a man looking at wedding photos in a marriage where he eventually found out that his wife was unfaithful to him. You realize there was something wrong with it however we feel about it now. Nine hundred ninety eight was a huge season for baseball. A comeback from the brink of disaster just four years earlier players and owners had been locked in a bitter dispute. The sport was making more money than ever players wanted a bigger slice of the pie. By august of nineteen ninety-four baseball was on strike and people were pissed. Nothing think stinks there just making enough money. The things A result of obscene pursued of wealth. It's really not our pastime anymore. The world series was cancelled next season delayed and when baseball returned some fans swore off the sport. Attendance dropped twenty percent but the damage was temporary. Something was happening on the field. Something powerful for the first time in decades it looked like the single season home run record. Roger maris's sixty one might fall. Baseball was dying because of the work stoppage. All of a sudden they come back gangbusters. They get one hundred percent of their audience back to think about it. I mean the record was nineteen sixty one and all of a sudden in ninety eight all those years later. You've got guys who could do it. Yeah it was. It was appointment television in seattle. There was ken griffey junior in chicago. Sammy sosa and in my hometown. We had mcguire was incredible theater. Every time you saw it was a time where the cardinals were not winning but it was so electric so invigorating. It was jolt of energy that this city and town desperately needed. There was nothing to look forward to with those cardinals teams. The team was pretty terrible. That's my younger brother. John he definitely has the best podcasting voice in the family. What did he do the first game of ninety eight. He did something ridiculous. Yes he hit a grand slam on opening night brown. And that was like that kind of thing where you just go. Something's happening. I love a beer. He made you care about face fall on a tuesday evening at nine o'clock against the pittsburgh pirates even though the game was meaningless but he really dictated the way. You ate your. Dinner's the way you conduct your social life. Even the way you went to your bathroom you did not go to the restroom. When mark mcgwire had a chance to bat that any in saint louis we weren't used to making national headlines especially not good ones and then came mcguire. He made the game fun again and he was the epitome of what a baseball star should be humble. Hardworking wholesome the whole shebang mark. Maguire is a true american hero. He looked the part too tall brawny with short red hair. an action figure bison found him. Appealing gorgeous cute. You don't men were obsessed with the power you think. Mark mcgwire's more interesting than the definitely. Yeah he was god with a small g. times as sportscasters. You don't get all wrapped up in the game. He was the only one who made you forget your job and get so wrapped up in the moment. I'll tell you story. It was a trip to miami late in the year. Hit four home runs. A two games and i was so like flustered on the air. I actually said live on television. It's unbelievable what he's doing. I had a sister. I would love for him to meet my sister and after i got off the air my sister called and said you know you do have a sister. In fact frank. You have two sisters. They would open up the stadium earlier so people could watch batting practice and i can remember being completely packed. Ninety minutes before game are out here again. That's basically while we got tickets so those people when out of their way just to watch twenty swings and man were they swince. Oh my goodness drove. Five hundred and forty miles tim mcguire and he's going to knock one out five hundred and forty. I used to get a kick out of watching the opposition in the dugout or while. They're playing catch just helpless and in all watching bp and believe me bp was every bit as intoxicating as the game room. Saint louis is obsession. Went well beyond the ballpark. My grandparents live near mcguire. Every time i went to visit them. My head was on a swivel. I was convinced. I'd spot him. It never happened and for a while. There was a rumor at my elementary school that his son matt might move to saint louis and enroll in my class. That never happened either. But with mcguire anything felt possible. He was paul bunyan cleats. A real life folk hero say as spraying the country together. So be it. I'm happy to bring the country together. I worshipped mcguire. It's not that. I wanted to play like he did and i didn't have a crush on him. I just love that. He belonged to saint louis to our team. Here's my brother again. Baseball in our family is a bit of a religion. I mean we're like culturally catholic. But we're definitely religiously cardinals. Baseball fans. That religion was passed down as most faith as i inherited it from my dad who inherited it from his mother whose family had lived down. The highway from saint louis longer than baseball has been played really. My mother was the big baseball fan. That's my dad tom. She came from a small town. America in baseball was everything i mean. She had her own love. Which i still have back there. I use that glove to play catch with my dad and brother. When i was a kid it was perfectly broken in and just the right size. My grandma grew up on a farm. Your doe run missouri. A speed bump of a town about eighty miles south of saint louis as a kid in the thirties and forties. She fell in love with the cardinals at sixteen. She moved to the city to become a nurse. She got married had her two boys and eventually taught them to catch. She died young. My dad was eight. She had a brain tumor and she declined quickly when she passed away. She left two young sons and a husband who could barely poor his own cereal. The boys leaned on family school and sports in nineteen sixty four just a year after my grandmother. Died the cardinals. Her cardinals made the world series. My grandpa somehow snagged two seats for game. Seven d could only get two tickets. He offered my brother the ticket he said take tom which was nice of him. We were on the last two seats up in the far left field and so we were as bad as far away as you could get but the cardinals was Amazing baseball helped me understand. My dad gave me a link to a grandma. I'd never know. It was family history. And i believed in it. You were raised in a house over. The baseball game was always on. You know i remember. My mom told me that you used to be back there. You turn the sound off and do the announcing like the announcer and that you knew every player in major league baseball. I can't remember the first time. I watched baseball on tv. But i do know that before. I was too. I could pronounce guerrero as in pedro the all star outfielder. The cardinals traded for in nineteen eighty. Eight my dad got a kick out of that. I always enjoyed going to games. Gawking at fred bird the cardinals giant pants mascot but it wasn't until nineteen ninety eight that i caught baseball fever every morning that summer. My brother and i would race from our bedrooms to the kitchen hurtling down the stairs to fight over the newspaper you to get up. I get to the counter. I to get sports section so you could see all the baseball for us to fight over that sports section. There's no internet every day. I'd take out scissors glue stick and a spiral notebook like any normal ten year old girl. I'd carefully trimmed box scores stories and always the little chart the top right corner of the sports section that tracked the race. All my friends plastered their walls with posters of nick. Carter and sent love letters justin timberlake. I happily pasted a summer's worth of stocks into that notebook and my compulsion didn't stop there. I learned how to calculate pitchers yaris by hands and obsessed over exactly what record. Keep the cardinals above five hundred. Joan zodda normal child. I would not say that in the few hours each day. When i couldn't watch baseball i read about it. I learned about the babe and roger marris records and perfect games as i devoured page after page. It seemed like all of history paled in comparison to nineteen ninety eight. This wasn't the baseball of the past. This was my baseball and it was bigger louder. It was all about one day after the break there in the air for an instant but they loom larger than anything else in baseball. What is it about the home run. Stay with us. a home. Run is born quickly in a nanosecond. There's the crack of the bat. The collective hush will it go. Could it cheers grow from a buzz to a rumble to a roar and for many people that chaos. There's no greater symphony. But why what makes the home run so irresistible. I needed to answer that question if i wanted to. Really understand what happened in nineteen ninety eight so i went looking for someone who could tell me about the history of the homerun the mythology the magic and i found bill jenkinson. He's a baseball historian. And even after writing several books about the homerun he's still swoon. When i mention it. I can still remember the thrill that i could hear the sound of the bet. It was one of the most powerful sports experiences in my life. he's talking about watching the phillies take batting practice. When he was nine years old. I watch those guys are slugging the ball in every direction over the rooftops over the scoreboards off the light towers that was breathless. And i've never gotten past that is to make my dad. Take me early to watch. Mark mcgwire hit batting practice and i mean he couldn't look away. I agree joan. I had the same experience with marketing. Yes it was astonishing to watch a human being. Do what he can do. I think we're just drawn to it. They think all beings are attracted to power and also forms. And i think you see it in sports quite a bit like look a goff. Who are the guys that we that we liked the most. We liked the guys. They hit the longest each. We really do when you're talking about tiger woods. His three hundred plus yard dries who actually talks about who the best chippers and putters are. It comes up. But what gets all the attention in football. We remember the quarterbacks with cannons. We watch tennis and were awed by fast serves in hockey slapshots s- in basketball dunks. But in the pantheon of power. I don't think anything tops. The homerun. Frank cusimano agrees. I mean there's an infatuation with brute strength and raw power when you see an exit velocity of one hundred and twenty miles an hour catching up with a ninety eight mile an hour fastball. I mean that's the essence of masculinity the physics of a home run seem superhuman wood and leather force and summer breeze mere mortals. Can't dream of having the strength and coordination. It's a clever a ball like that and the men who can become baseball. God's none more so than the original home run king of swat the king of crash losses of cloud. Great no. that's a clip from the when it came out in nineteen ninety three. I knew boys who spoke almost entirely in quotes from that movie. And i bring it up here and not just because i think it's great but because it says a lot about what the name babe. Ruth still means people who love baseball. The story is built on the absurd premise. That a kid might go through the first decade of life without knowing a thing about the great bambi. No well you born in a barn man. What planet are the kid. Only learns about the babe after he's hit assigned ruth ball into an off-limits yard. It's a disaster. But then ruth comes to one of the boys a dream and tells him he should do what ever it takes to retrieve that ball zeros. And there's legends. You always get remembered legends. Never die so the sandlot is more than just a fun story. It's like an epic ode to baseball history. And ruth is the god. The legend hovers over at all. We have our heroes today people who dominate the sports bron james and michael jordan before him but no one ever became this all encompassing god-like figure that they've rooted in nineteen twenty. He set a new single season home. Record of fifty four the guy who got closest to him he had nineteen. Ruth broke his own record the next year then again sixty as i spoke with jenkinson about that record and the babes place in history i noticed he kept coming back to one word. Ruthenian it's so interesting to me. Someone's last name became the gold. Standard agitated sport entered the lexicon. I don't know if there's one person who coined it i could be but i i've seen it countless times in references to only back to the nineteen twenties with ruth. It's tough to tease. Apart the legend and the man to remember that he wasn't a god he was as human as the rest of us. Ruth was sent to reform school as a kid and cheated on both of his wives constantly. He obviously was an imperfect man. It's hard to blame him. When you consider his background everything that he went through some of the things he did were destructive to himself but his in his interactions with other human beings. He was always remarkably kind generous. I would like people to know that. I find this so interesting. I didn't ask jenkins said about risk character. But he brought up almost immediately as if he needed to reassure himself about his hero. Because we all want to believe. There's something more to our faith in these people something virtuous pure. We want their accomplishments. To feel untouchable. The swap will forever stand alone as the king of baseball tomorrow and ruth did standalone until nineteen sixty one that summer not one but two yankees mickey mantle and roger marris. We're on pace to break the babes record. They played for. Ruth's team played in his shadow. How could they possibly stack up to the greatest of all time and the legends. That propped up his memory. Mayors won the race but that impossible standard nearly broke him. He died in nineteen eighty-five. But i did track down. Roger marris junior. She debt at home runs. Probably not as good as against because the crowd goes crazy. And you watch your dad run around and kind of gives you some goosebumps to watch that. We grew up in missouri. Like i didn't realize the way things were a tie actually went to new york and saw just the way he was treated in new york. I mean he was like a rockstar. That was years after paris. Broke the record. It wasn't always that way especially when he first arrived in new york. No one really knew he was at the time. Small town guy. Fargo north dakota comes to new york and then has be mickey out for the. Mvp that here. That was his first season with the yankees in the second key and mantle chased ruth. Majority of the people wanted mickey which rightfully so. It's making man. He'd been there and he'd already done some amazing things in new york and he was the golden boy mayors felt like he'd never measure up unlike mantle and ruth before him. He didn't enjoy talking to the media that led to a difficult relationship with reporters. He had no breathing room. They were surrounded in the whole time after four hours on the ball field. And then if he didn't ask all the questions he was getting bad press and if he did answer the questions he was getting bad. Press a sports illustrated story from nineteen sixty one told of a conversation harris had with a writer in chicago. Who asked if the slugger really wanted to break. Ruth's record mariss had the presumption to say. Yes the writer then pointed out that ruth had been a great man as if might reconsider his stance instead he doubled down. Maybe i'm not a great man. He said but i damn well want to break the record. That's summer mayors received hate mail. He got death threats eventually the stress me his hair fall out. He had just turned twenty seven what he had endure that season. That's amazing what he did not now go into the record book but with a hook dope babe ruth pay nineteen seven record within a hundred and fifty four games took a hundred and fifty nine games. I'll be expanded to be detained. As soon as it became clear that mariss might break the babes record. The commissioner proposed adding an asterisk to the books he never did but that intention speaks volumes. Many people refuse to believe that someone so unassuming could topple the babe from his pedestal. They were desperate to protect a record that loomed larger than any other in sports. Why do you think fans are always so invested in the home run record. Why do you think that record seems to mean more than other records. Sexiest record in sports. There's nothing harder to do than his home. Run it's probably the most difficult record to break then hands down. I mean no doubt about it took thirty four years for marriage to pass ruth another thirty seven from aguire to muscle his way to the top. For each of the home run kings the record took hundreds of thousands of swings years of training for mariss. The record was worth sacrificing sanity com. His appearance from aguire. It was worth breaking the law. And who knows how many shots to the but and why not most players would do anything to hit like that to draw millions of is and thousands of flashbulbs with every swing and in the nineties. A lot of them did in nineteen ninety eight. It wasn't just mcguire. Who was chasing baseball. Immortality that june cubs outfielder. Sammy sosa. hit twenty. Two home runs in twenty seven games. The home run race was on. I've never seen a more amazing sporting achievement in those guys going after that sixty one You turn on the tv. It was the lead story in the newspapers lead. If you went to the water found work. They talked about anywhere you went. You're talking about the home. Run chase of mariss on august nineteenth mcgwire and sosa faced off at wrigley field in a game that captures the thrill of that season in one. Three and a half hour burst that afternoon. The to sluggers were tied at forty seven home runs and their bat stayed quiet until the fifth inning. So so so the batter. He's one for two and a rocket back goes neighboring the track and sammy who just missed. The third puts the cubs on top by four with his forty eighth. The fans going crazy here in chicago for the first time all summer mcguire had lost his leap and in his next at bat. He didn't get anything to head. Neither did sosa. He walked and his rival waited at first base mark. Maguire probably saying semi. I'm a real big guy. I know i can hit but compared to me. Look like a junkie. How do you hit so many of them. That's because he's not seeing him without his shirt onto often sandwich put together pretty good in the top of the ace. The cubs led six to five. When maguire came to bat he saw one ball outside the zone. Then to route brewing. They what mcguire swing. The bat soi felt deep taught left doubt about that baby and we are tied at forty eight for the home. Run late in the fans have come here today. Have gotten their money's worth and just like that. The game is tied at six. Did you notice that the score was an afterthought to division rivals. We're facing off. The game was tied late and nobody gave a damn about six two six. It was forty eight to forty eight that mattered. And when the game went to extra innings. Maguire was the second man. Toback shaw center field johnson. Back at the track mcguire has never sosa hit lead for fewer than three innings and the race marched on first week of september mcguire had a cushion and he was barreling toward sixty. Two rogers. junior felt conflicted. You never wanna see your dad's record fall. i mean. obviously. It was up to me grace records in sports. So you clearly don't want that to happen but you also realize that records are made to be broken and how dad said that once he said thousand times that you know just like. He broke his record sunday. Somebody my break is record. So now we're back to where this episode began. September eighth nineteen ninety eight. The cardinals were playing the cubs of all teams in saint. Louis i told you earlier what it was like to live this as a ten year old but when i started working on this podcast i went back and watched sixty two over and over. Here's what it looks like to me. Now maguire's line drive. Barely cleared the left field fence. Busch stadium erupted in screams. Some tears camera flashes. Mcguire was so overwhelmed. He rounded first base without touching the bad at every base. Mcguire got a high five fist-bump pat on the butt from coaches and opponents. Fireworks exploded overhead. Remember this is the fourth inning. Mcgwire stepped on home. He hoisted his son matt batboy into the air. Next sosa trotted in from left. Field and maguire lifted him to at this point the game had been stopped for two minutes but the celebration was just getting started. Mcguire job for the dugout then passed it. He jumped into the seats to tearfully hug. Roger junior and the rest of the mayor's family then mcguire grabbed a mike. God sammy sosa. Believable busch stadium needed more than ten minutes to collect itself the rest of the game was an afterthought and when the final out was called a press conference began on the fields. I want to thank both mark. Mcgwire and sammy sosa. You'll have made this a summer. that generations will remember. That's baseball commissioner bud ceiling to acknowledge mark for breaking the single season home run record set by the great roger marriage. I am honored to present. Mark the commissioner's historic achievement award. It was basically an invented award a brand new trophy sosa. Get one to later. That fall watching the broadcast now. It's striking how much baseball was looking for. Something anything to hammer that night into history to say. Look here at this magical thing. We've done which kind of ruins the magic. Of course some of the script was outside of the league's control. It couldn't have plans that the cubs would be in town. That maguire would be so giddy. He'd leap over first base but that shiny gold never before seen trophy. it was calculated. So is the presence. And maguire milked it for all it was worth and it was meant to be but there was at hand inside me and i really hope their family really understood that they saw raja and mark at the same time. In retrospect it all feels like a bit of a reach. Sure a few coincidences linked maris's and maguire's but they were trumpeted on the news like divine revelations stretched to the point of breaking. He was born two years to the day after. Roger maris hit his sixty first home. Run couple of days ago. He hit number sixty one on his father's sixty first birthday. And i knew that mark maguire believes in fate. Roger marris homered in the fourth inning to break babe ruth mark mark. Maguire homered tonight in the fourth inning. So he believes that there's some you know mystical fate or some god looking down upon him. Roger marris broke babe. Ruth's record fifteen years after ruth died. Mcguire maris's record fifteen years. After mariss dies actually. It was thirteen years. In both cases but math was secondary to the narrative that this had all been preordained. That fall home runs transcended baseball transcended sports. They even inspired barbara walters to recite a poem on air made a big dreams and in the game. Even though our country changes baseball stays the same. The home run race gave us something to rally around at a time when the country was begging for a distraction. See out side of sports. America wasn't feeling so great about itself in nineteen ninety eight. This was the summer that clinton lewinsky scandal unravelled a news broadcast toggle between the home. Run race and the tawdry details of what happened. In the oval office i did not have sexual relations with that woman miss lewinsky. I never told anybody to lie. President bill clinton was under investigation for having an affair with an intern and lying about it. In fact just a day after mcgwire broke the record. Kenneth starr delivered his damning report to congress. He had a case to impeach. So yeah american. Needed a hero. Maybe that's why so many people wanted to believe they'd found one in mcguire and my no one wanted to admit what was really going on. But that doesn't mean everyone was clueless and i asked roger maris junior. What else was on his mind back. Then were you thinking at all about steroids at that point I had buddies that were juiston. I had played on the softball circuit. Where people were juicin' so yeah. I knew what was going on. So did you think when you looked at mcgwire like hey. There's a chance he's doing this stuff at the time or was that not quite on your mind that summer. Oh is definitely my mind clearly among but you gotta realize alive. At that time. I mean the story was so big. It was probably the big feel feel-good story of my lifetime and nobody was going to ruin that story. It was helping baseball. It was great for baseball. It was great for everybody. You felt good. I felt good. Everybody felt good watching what they were doing. So no to be the guy to come out and go. This is not legit. This is bs and ruined the feel-good good story. We just suck it up like if this is. The new norm the norm roger junior. Didn't have to ruin the story. Time would play spoiler instead when mcgwire hit his seventieth home run on the final day of the ninety eight season. It seemed as if his record would stand for ages. Unlike mariss who barely made it past ruth. Big mac had demolished the previous record. The numbers seem freaky monstrous inhuman. Because they were ten. I had no idea i was too innocent to question what i saw to wonder. Why first baseman suddenly looked like offensive. Linemen outfielders strong safeties. There was no voice in the back of my head to silence no devil on my shoulder whispering steroids but for a lot of people that devil came in the form of associated. Press reporter. steve. Walstein win to maguire's locker. I was taking notes about what i saw. And then i saw this little bal. I wrote it down in my notebook to look it up later and see what it was. We'll stein had the biggest story of the summer. And no one wanted to hear it. Next time on crushed. What did we know. when did we know it. And why did we ignore the truth for so long. Crushed is written and reported by me. Joan payson jessica. Popovic is our senior producer. Our associate producer is devon. Nancy and our production assistant is meghan coil. Michael garoppolo is our editor. Jane ackerman fact check the series and dan dula mixed this episode. Gotham chopra a soccer and adam. Schloss men are executive producers special. Thanks to lisa pollick and to composer. Michael kramer crushed his a production of religion of sports and pr ex. If you like the show please follow us and leave review wherever you dear listening.

baseball cardinals mcguire saint louis Roger maris ruth mark maguire Maguire maguire Ruth sammy sosa joan nielsen frank cusimano Saint louis Mcguire tim mcguire sosa Joan zodda
Deliberation

Direct Appeal

1:03:51 hr | 1 year ago

Deliberation

"In the last several years. Manal just have really begun to focus on the topic of women in crime. This interest has inspired amy to create a podcast devoted entirely to true stories about women and Crime twice a month. We will discuss individual stories of women who have been victims of crime or perpetrators. Sometimes these two are one and the same will also choose cases in which women have been falsely accused exonerated or women. Who's working the criminal? Justice system has brought them notoriety. Best Intruder criminologist routes. We will tell you the full stories of these women but we will also explain the cause of the events that happen whether the criminal justice system got it right off no matter what this podcast will focus on women in crime all of the time so stay tuned women and Crime is coming soon. If you're just tuning in we encourage you to go back and listen from episode one. This podcast may contain content. That is graphic and disturbing nature listener discretion is advised previously on the season of direct appeal on April twenty. Third Two thousand seven. I was convicted of murder and dismemberment of my husband. Melanie thinks she can six every back eventually. Going to extricate myself from this relationship are men. I in having an extramarital affair. He pushed me up against the bathroom door and stuff. The dryer sheets my mouth. I got to get the hell out of there. I was pissed through all of this and you go down to Atlantic City on his car. Someplace downtown seedy motel good luck minding and before she left she looked at me. She said he's really not much trumpcare. Car Clean that apartment. That apartment had normal household dirt. My mother called me and said that police had been lied to me but my husband passed away in Virginia naive. I'm thinking if I didn't do anything like what's the harm in talking and telling them on having an affair nobody's asking a prosecutor wants to prosecute you to the degree the law. They're going to push it because you're guilty. Until you're proven Edna says you will be so get your head. Right at prosecutor is fearing absolutely first victims part human saw dot com. We got this. Dna now the dog hair that was found in the bags with his body. Where was this Bonnie packaged money out on the street? And that's how you get shot here. An ear is unlikely that her pistol was used in this crime. But it's not impossible if this were allowed to get up there and say they'll talk to me about this. I wanted to be the judge someone else nick. Those same bag committed most could have that. Spanish is old data. Show that the bags didn't match factors missing footed how the hell was perhaps with more important than what is what she didn't hear. Our tools shot a mountain a reasonable doubt. How can anyone be conducted with that amount of doubt stunning? That's dangerous not get the balance. Nobody's entitled to a perfect trial. You're entitled to a fair trial will tell you over and over. The burden of proof is unsafe. However if you don't tell your story the jury thinks you don't have a store. How'd he told a story being that? There was huge prosecutorial misconduct Layton and deliberate ultimately. I would find out that one of my attorneys was under federal investigation. That's win our depends went on four experts dried up and all of the sudden testify. I expected the worst him what I was. Just one step shy. They give the verdict girl eligible at the age of one hundred one nine. Remember saying my kids my kids and I don't really remember much after that. This changes you in a way. I don't know that aspect for us. Okay we have a lot to cover on this last episode of direct appeal. So we'RE GOING TO ADDRESS AUDIENCE. Tips your alternative theories and amy and I will give you our final conclusions about the case but I I'd like to address an audience issue. That's come up in the course of this podcast. We have read reviews that are podcast was biased and that we should have contacted bill sisters and or other family and friends and other people to speak to you on Bill Maguire's behalf. I personally understand this criticism about contacting his sisters and I wanted to just explain a little bit more about why I thought it was the wrong move. I initially wasn't sure based on my conversation. With my limited conversation with the prosecutor they would be very welcome to US contacting them so that was the first signal. I got that this wouldn't be a great idea and when I read through the transcript and other materials. I realized that I would contact his sisters. If there was some information that I thought really needs to clarify information that kind of went to Melanie's guilt or innocence information. I thought they had about the crime that especially was never made clear in the truth. Was that in Nancy did not testify in trial and I think she lived far away and didn't really have any information and the information that I saw cindy head testify to was sort of limited to this letter That was written after the fact and it didn't seem that she had much information as well about the crime itself and Melanie's guilt now. We know that Apple Sisters afterwards think Melania's guilty and maybe rightly so but it seemed to me that the invasion to their lives had to be well justified so I decided not to I thought about it you know I thought about it again. I reviewed the materials as these questions came in again and look in the end. Maybe it was the wrong move and I certainly can take their criticism but my gut really told me and still tells me that contacting them wasn't exactly in the best interest for them and for the investigative Aspect of this podcast. I also believe that if they wanted to talk. I'm pretty sure they're well aware of this. Podcast I think maybe they would have contacted. So maybe their lack of contact shows that maybe they really didn't want to be involved in this. I mean yeah. I can't speak for them and again if if either either they'll sisters or anyone else would like to speak with us. We are so open to talking either off the record or on the record and I don't again I think it's a legitimate criticism and you know. Sometimes this is our first endeavor and I was just going with my kind of gut feeling so that being said though we also wanted to provide the audience with a finalist people. We contacted to speak to in terms of the case against Melanie or on behalf. Bill McGuire so we initially contacted a lot more people and we wanted to speak more people because we had questions that we really thought were important to Melanie's guilt or innocence. But we couldn't force people to participate and certainly we respect their decisions. Not to so here is a list. I think I promise this in the beginning and I just want to provide you with the list of people who either declined to participate or did not respond to us at all. So that would be all three prosecutors in the trial against Melanie. Mcguire five main police investigators. Who HELPED THE PROSECUTION? Twelve jurors the medical examiner who provided a brief statement but who declined to be interviewed. The main forensic scientist on this case. Mr Lesniak bills good friend John Rice and his good friend and business partner J Tanda. We believe they would have had information that would have been relevant to the crime and could have also spoke about bill in his character so in total. That's won't that is a total of twenty two people and I think that obviously would have balanced the podcast a bit more but we couldn't again force people to participate. We also note that we did not receive calls back for Melanie's attorneys Joe Teke Pino or Stephen Toronto on her side. Sorry that's twenty four people. That is twenty. Four JOE and Steve. I wasn't counting towards so twenty. Two people who could have spoken on behalf of the State's case on behalf of bill who declined to participate so some of the audience members had questions about the material. We used in this podcast so just wanted to let you know that I use the trial transcript often have both electrically and boxes and piles of papers at home police reports evidence in the trial media coverage. I looked at all the legal briefs that would submit it and we have the interviews so we did use a lot of materials to support the podcast even when we did though there were some instances when the transcripts or these documents or the interviews did not provide the full answers and so in those cases. I chose not to speculate about things. A correction that is very important and we'll seemingly important leader on the trip. Melanie says she took to Delaware for furniture. Shopping was actually on Tuesday. May Fourth and not Sunday may second which we reported in a previous episode and this is the second would be a time where her whereabouts could be accounted so again trip to Delaware she says was on Tuesday may fourth and not Sunday May Second. We apologize for the mistake last issue and this is a complicated one four correction and explanation and this relates to an issue that so many people wrote in about in this. B. Cell Tower information for the phones. There was a question. Will I actually had a question about how we were so sure? The Prosecution had obtained cell tower records for Bill. But not for Melanie I ha. I couldn't find it per se in the transcripts and it was described notes everywhere but I went back to the transcripts on this one and I went back to Let's see I think it was detective or officer mccutcheon. And he spoke about these calls. He he did describe the phone calls and what they got but he never describes any cell phone tower information so I also went to Tom. Terry's Information Tom Terry was bills boss and he came in. He testified a read his testimony as well in Patty asked him about. Bill's work phone bills. Work phone was Nextel and sew. Patty asked Tom Terry if he had contacted Nextel. The call that was made from bills phone at five forty one PM on April thirtieth and Tom Terry said he had so. Patty asked him if he had gotten the cell site information from the next people and he said yes. And then what happens? Is Joe Tech Aquino steps in an objects and Joe and Patty and the judge go to a sidebar and I was reading to the transcript and what happened was that the judge says that Tom Terry cannot testify about what the next tell people told him about the cell site location because that would be hearsay. He said for that. You need the documents bringing the next ones. If you'RE GONNA try to show the world bring in the person at xl who said it. I think so. The judge won't documents he said if you're going to document the actual location you're going to need more than that and actually patio set at that. Sidebar. That they were waiting on that information but it was delayed but she would get those documents. I couldn't find any later time in the transcripts during the trial that she ever submitted the documentation. So Tom Terry and I'm sorry end. Joe Tackle penal never put in for any sort of that. Nope nothing on that phone call went to the Rice's house. If you remember his friends yellen in Sura I remember. That's the call that did Melanie make it or was bill alive at right. So there's some question over it and certainly the cell site information would have been helpful but again. Tom Terry was not allowed to testify about that. And whatever happened to that information? We really don't know at all so that's the first call. Okay but let's separate that because that was bills Nextel and that was not connected to Melanie's phone so the second issue relates to the Cell Towers Between their shared phone so there was a second phone call. If you recall early on May second a phone call was received from Bill's personal cellphone the one he shared with Melania on the second and the phone call was made to their home apartment. Woodbridge apartment and that was made at approximately one ten. Am So was there any cell site available any info available on this. And that's a separate question. I couldn't find anything. Anyone spoke to the cell tower information on this. And so I asked Melanie about it again. Melanie says and this is her Clear recollection. She says that she is positive that her team told her. So Joe and Steve told her that the prosecution identified that phone call as coming from or originating from Atlantic city which was where she was at the time but she's positive that her team said to her this recollection patty or the prosecution has sell tight cell site information. And they're going to say that you made that phone or that. That phone call came from Atlantic City. At the time you were there however I could never find any information to substantiate this so you can look at this one of two ways actually. So here's what you can look at it as that. Melanie's mistaken and that Patty never said this. Nobody ever said anything about the second. You know the the shared phone line and that. There's nothing ominous going on here. It was just a mistake or you could look at it if you believe that. Melanie's recollection is correct. That there was information that was you know. Kind of threatened or not thrown out of evidentiary value. Or you know it was a bluff kind of ours this information that we're gonNA show this and You know it's GonNa look bad for your client leader. So that is the story on it. There is no way to substantiate this unless patty if you WANNA call us. Yeah Joe Steve IF YOU WANNA call us that would be wonderful. Could we do a freedom of Information Act to get that information? I thought so and I think there are a couple of things we could although I submitted a freedom of information. Act about phone records and Some Photograph Prosecutions Office To the court system and I am I received back. That information is not available. Like a blanket statement granted. I'm sure there's a way that we could probably get this so just to clarify again on. That information seem that there was going to be cell site information for the next cell phone. The judge wouldn't allow it never documentation to support that later whether or not there was any cell tower avail Information available for bills phone on the shared account with Melanie. We have no idea hopefully that clarifies some listeners. And for you amy. Yes thank you Meghan. Now I think we want to get to Listener comments and tips first thing. A few listeners commented that many of Melanie's actions were consistent with Women in abusive relationships although some commented that her actions were also consistent with a sociopaths actions. Little clarification here. Socio pathology or psychopathy which are used interchangeably. Better actually have small differences rated sort of on the same scale Cycle paths are generally thought to be more organized intelligent and planned but some of the traits that both disorders share include a lack of empathy lack of sympathy emotional detachment impulsively general disregard for others superficialness. So someone said that they thought or there are many comments about what Melanie said but they thought that she locked emotions you know they thought it was sociopathic in nature and I think the only time as far as the recordings we have the only time she does show emotion is when she says I couldn't put him back in the water which I thought was interesting because it really wants I thought about it that Oh yeah that is the only time voice really cracked up but Megan. You met her on several other occasions. Did you notice any emotion for sure? Yeah sorta James to and not over emotion. She wasn't sitting there cheering crying. But there's definitely like micro expressions that I observed in her that That I could say You know she seemed more emotional at certain times. So it's interesting to look at these both way to look at this both ways. I'm not really sure here. You know some people felt like now. This is really consistent with you. Know a relationship. You know the the behavior in an abusive relationship. Some people thought no just consistent with one of these personality disorders and also I WANNA point out. Everyone shows emotion differently right. We know that emotion does not tell us some people cry when they're happy but not one they're set right so it's important to understand. That abnormal affects sometimes is just that? It doesn't mean that it's related to psychopathy agreed. Amy Thank you so next. Issue the walgreens issue so Listen a lot of feedback on this. A lot of feedback. Some people wrote in one of the comments was that Melanie could have called a prescription into walgreens but many pharmacies including walgreens have recording systems for healthcare providers to leave the information. So she would know that and she wouldn't want to record also if she got she called. GotTa Live Pharmacy Employee. They might question. An unusual order like quarrel hydrate about that. I'm not sure about that. One either But I do think. The recording information was interesting I'm not sure pharmacies do that. But it's definitely possible and I'm sure a lot of them do it now. I guess I'm not sure if they did it. Then right someone else wrote and if bill was trying to fill a prescription wouldn't he use a male patients name? Fertility centers have male patient records to those are the partners of women trying to get pregnant. I think that's a strong point because we said you know he did. We know he had access to the patients that I mean. That makes perfect sense to me. If you're going to call it in or if you're going to drop it off your mouth just make your life easier and take a male's identity. Yeah no I think that's possible as well. Yeah maybe you know. There's a an idea that most of the patients are going to be females. But yeah it's possible. It was also noted that I think when we were talking about it. We were saying. Oh you would need to show an insurance card and ID and it was brought to our attention that that was actually incorrect. Because you only need to present an insurance card if you want to go through insurance you pay out of pocket you could pay cash and there's really no record then so it is possible that somebody did drop this off and they just didn't present any sort of ID however of course if it was a controlled substance. They would need an idea but from what we understand. Chloro- hydrate is not in that class of drugs and the other issue that was brought up. Is We talked a lot about the time it was dropped off and you know whether or not that's enough time to drop off the children and all of that. It was brought to our attention by somebody who worked in a pharmacy. That's sometimes someone drops off script and you're busy doing something else and you kind of let it sit a little so drop off. Time does not mean the time the individual necessarily was in the pharmacy. Someone even said Hey could have been dropped off the day before and it was sitting in a pile and you know so. There's really no way to know that I think for me that you know that provided me with a different. It doesn't change things a lot but it's just something to consider that it's not necessarily what it seems per point. Let's see another listener wrote in someone who went to nursing school with Melanie and she said there is absolutely no way she would need to Google information about whether Insulin Jackson would kill. Someone also cutting. The body is not taught in nursing school. And I think Dr Barone spoke about that a little yeah we've been able to confirm that That's not something that's constantly taught at all when is taught no nurses or taught how to cut a body. And it's a possibility that Melanie would not need to look this up again. It's a possibility the insulin. She could have found that in her. Pdr so I can understand that comment as well. What do we have next talk a little bit about hearsay? Okay so if you recall George. Lowery was not allowed to testify to the point that he claimed that bill told him that he wanted a gun And if you recall the judge would not allow that in because that was hearsay and although there are different rules around here say one of the under the federal rules of evidence which a lot of states typically follow these One of the exceptions is if the person who originally said the statement. If they're no longer if they are not able to defend their position somebody else cannot speak on their behalf so the default position of the court is to keep the evidence out so in other words. If the bill were still alive then they would say. We don't care what George says. Bill said just bring billon since bill cannot come in and speak for himself they would rather just because he can't defend himself and say whether or not he did say that so they they're default position is to keep that information out. I think in this situation keeping it out was maybe not the right call regardless it wasn't allowed but it will come up later on in our final conclusions. I can tell you that so someone else wrote in that. You know she's a friend who's a defense attorney and her friend said that it's a known legal strategy to not object much if at all during openings or closings The friend thought that the attorneys in this case. Oh Joe Tech Pena and Stephen. Toronto should have definitely asked for a mistrial during the closing whether or not openings or closings are seen as evidence the prosecutor and that's Patty Prosciutto. Yosso was asking the jury to draw conclusions based on the lack of a gun. Buying conversation which goes back to the George Lowery conversation we just had it does but it also there were other statements that I'm patty made During the closing and that was asking the jury to assume facts that were never admitted into evidence such as it's possible that she was drugging him for days. It's possible that bill's body was frozen in the refrigerator. It's possible they said that she was overreaching. And that this is not good strategy and it actually is prosecutorial misconduct and it is grounds for a mistrial but of course acknowledged that mistrials are not always easy to come by. So the information was that. And we've heard this from a couple of attorneys. I spoke with another attorneys. Well who said he also thought? It was prosecutorial misconduct so in her closing. But that it's not common to object and Joe's reasoning for not objecting was. It'll make us look. Bad is not the wrong. Move per se another listener. Who is a forensic scientist for it in and said even without the root myocardial DNA analysis can still be run on hairs remember? We had all that untested hair. It's less common than nuclear DNA analysis because it cannot uniquely identify individuals. But it can certainly exclude Melanie. But even if it excludes melanie that doesn't mean she wasn't there right but they had all of these hairs and the problem was there was all these untested hairs. And all. The hairs that were tested said Brooks were not of evidentiary value. Because they couldn't match them to Melanie. Yeah that's very problematic because clearly you're saying this doesn't fit your theory so it's not of evidence value and there was tons of hair. It wasn't an animal hair. Animal Hair to You know what happened to that hair in and yes it's still. This hair could still be tested. So that's deter you know. Think about an. I asked Melanie about that. I don't believe it was ever brought up in her appeal so that not be brought. That seems to me that would be paramount so we thought that was. I thought Oh my God is important issue too. So it's possible that her attorneys they don't always present every issue. I guess during appeal. 'cause THEY WANNA save one like a golden nugget leadership in some of these arguments not prevail an earlier appeal. We'll get to this later. So she kinda thought it was a nugget. They were saving for her. And I'd say you know I don't know good trade if you're innocent you don't WANNA save marrying thing right. I understand that strategy but at the same time if I was I don't want to sit around for a couple of years. It's going to take for the appellate court and then to get the testing. I agree but I'm but so it is possible to test all these hair still so. I hope that we see an opportunity for that. I know that I would love to see that. That was one of your former students as well wasn't it yes I should say not a criminology student. She she took a class with me several years ago but she was A science major in who? She went on to become a forensic scientist so she also said that when she was listening to the prosecution's plastic expert. Frank Ruis she immediately wondered why he didn't do a nuclear magnetic resonance test and a gas chromatography test so she says she was really glad the defenses experts. Alexander pointed out that that testing was necessary to establish a plastic bag match so she She went on and I just shorten this but she went on to say that wall Mr Ruiz was correct. That some of these there were some indicators. He did not do all of the necessary testing and that SALGA was actually correct in saying you could establish a match without the test that he did not do so. Okay so what was what about. We heard from a pathologist as well. Right yes in. The Polish was really helpful. So the pathologist wrote in regarding Dr Barons testimony and also the medical examiner so it was great to hear from her She had a couple of main points that I thought were really interesting. She said I she'd have to argue that freezing changes the way epidermal cells look She said as a surgical pathologist I performed frozen sections almost every day. We routinely freeze tissue to get an immediate diagnosis while the patient is in surgery. And there is no perceptible. Change in the cell skin cells seen after freezing so remember there was. This idea had been Frozen which I still don't think he was. But yes if he had been Melanie and someone else question whether or not there wouldn't be changes to his skin. And so she sang absolutely not. There'd be no way to tell. I love our listeners. They're so smart right. We've some great listeners. And we thank you so much because we are not pathologists and we are not scientists and it's really useful to have input of people that are experts in these areas. So thank you very much. Yes thank you for that Okay her second point as far as the Human Sawdust this is hard to address without knowing exactly what was seen microscopically. There are elements that are seen in the durmus such as hair follicles and sweat glands that are only seen in dermal tissue other elements like fiber stromer nerves blood vessels smooth muscle et cetera can be seen in many different body tissues including Durmus. So I think she's just saying on this point is there's really no way to tell. The human saw us was an indicative either way so the third point she said the point the doctor Baron makes about the sawing is spot on tissue flies everywhere when sawing just Abon let alone cutting apart whole body parts. Going back to the idea that whether or not Melanie the prosecution clearly. Got This wrong where it was. Yeah crime seem not established and finally to Melanie's point of the color being incorrect. She said the medical examiner made a mistake about made mistakes about bills. I call her and something else. Was Melanie saying that to try to say. This person isn't credible or I'm not sure how how much I can tell you. Because her she got his Ike Laurent in this is to Melanie's point of color being correct. I color changes post mortem tending to become cloudy or darkened. Blue is therefore may look gray or brown within several days. Anger death so That's the reason. Why the Color may have changed. Also she says the legs looking fresh. So she's referring to bills lakes really probably means that they were submerged in the cold water longer and exposed to ambient temperature less time. She said the true postmortem interval should probably be estimated based on the body parts. That are the most decomposed as these. Were likely more exposed to ambient temperatures interesting. Yeah so I guess she saying that. The estimates based on you know how long the legs being fresh idea was that maybe he was killed just yesterday. Well maybe but she's saying I. It's probably a better estimate. If you're looking at the parts that were the most he composed and that wasn't Peleg's so all right. Thank you All right so talk a little bit about the mechanic who wrote in. Oh this is interesting so If you guys recall we talked about the fact. That bills headlights were getting stolen. I believe four or five times as headlights were stolen and we couldn't quite understand how this could keep happening. We talked about how he wrote off this loss on his taxes. And so I just want it before. Amy gets out. Also we recently were guest on crawlspace and the two hosts Tim and Lance. Oh Gosh one of them was like wait. What happened tenders headlights dawn and just could not five minutes on the interview on this and it's funny because since we've been looking at this so long it didn't really seem that crazy to me but hearing it from them hearing their reaction made me realize like yeah even twice would be strange right so it turns out that this was quite common for Nissan Maxima to have their headlights stolen because there was actually an igniter that was located behind the lenses and it was actually the igniter that was often stolen out of cars but in order to get to the igniter. You had to remove the headlights. So why did people want these igniters? Well gang members use them to make quote Unquote Street. Smarts stun-guns though. It is possible that the area where he worked we know is a high crime area. So it's very possible that there was heavy gang activity and it's possible that the lights were stolen. Be As a means to get to these egg nighters so I thought that was very interesting again. Thank you to our listeners for having such interesting insight into some of these things I looked into this issue when I saw that. It was a thing with the headlights. Were getting stolen but I didn't know it was because of the igniter but you know you have a mechanical company. Just great we have a forensic pathologists fronting scientists A lawyer s people who are writing in Thank you so much for your tips. Also information from you guys. Some of you wrote in with alternate theories of what may have happened to bill. So we're going to cover your theories and then we'll cover our center conclusions and also want to point out that some of these. We are lumping together because we had so many people send than so many theories that there were some themes that emerge so we're talking about themes more so than a specific email that contained a theory. So I think the first one. I think this might be the one. We heard the Moses. Perhaps it was a hit and a Hitman. Move the car to signal completed job. Maybe shut off the hotel recorder or maybe paid the hotel to erase it and Maybe Melanie Order. That hit of course someone else could have ordered it as well but based on the number of people that had this theory it seems like people seem to think. Maybe this was a murder for hire and Melanie was behind it. I thought it was an interesting point that we added here. Someone's had maybe The hotel recorder. You know that one with a missing surveillance maybe someone shut that off intentionally because it was kind of odd that seven days was missing Yep Yeah so it's definitely possible that Melania someone else ordered the head And there's all these hotels involved right so speaking of the hotel someone wrote in Isn't it a strong likelihood that he was killed at the hotel they ever check for evidence in any hotel room? Maybe the hairs came from. There may be the animal hairs came from there. It's possible but also which hotel You had brought this up so there are a couple. Hotels are involved. There's a hotel luxury in where Melanie says. She found his car but no one could ever present say there was no that wasn't substantial. But then there's the Flamingo in on. That's where his car is actually found. So I think this person is saying is impossible that he was killed in the Flamingo. In in this hotel room maybe. The hairs came from there now. There was an investigation and they looked into whether or not he was registered. There and he wasn't but that also I don't know if that means he wasn't registered under another name And with with the guest correct also. There is the Red Rufin which is where Melanie check. Did too and someone else asked. Isn't it possible that she did something to him there? I will say. I think that's highly unlikely because she doesn't fit. Either timeline could fit. But I think it'd be highly unlikely that she's transporting bill to the Red Roof Inn. And how is she doing this? And a little risky because remember we did visit that roofing and it's in a high populated area. It doesn't but that's an interesting point. Did they search those any of those hotel rooms? So the Red Rufin. Yes they did but it was later was much later. So they didn't find any They didn't search any the Flamingo in hotel rooms knowledge because they couldn't find him registered there. Okay so another theory. Someone wrote instead of foul play occurred in Atlantic City. As seems feasible. Maybe it was an issue with a prostitute. John Known in that area there certainly no evidence to sound worth that just to be clear on but I did see that a couple of people who wrote that in and probably because of the area in Atlantic City Okay so that's another theory And I think along with that was I read maybe one or two people that said maybe he just slept with the wrong woman. Yes absolutely right. It was a sex worker or not. It's very possible that he was having an affair and it was with a husband who got very angry. Yep We definitely saw that. Come up again. So thank you for that one to amy Another listener wrote in. Although it was mentioned that Melanie was slight and the case test was done with enough adrenaline anger. People can lift much more than you would think. Adrenaline panic would mean a very quick messy process. Dispose of a body and being being a nurse would therefore not cut a buddy body like that. As we suggest. Seems a moot point Look at the Robert Durst case for example. He was old and frail and dismembered body and through trash bags into water which also contained body parts. Very interesting point. I thought that's a great point to be on us and I'm sure there's people listening that can think of times where they had. What seemed like superhuman strength? Whether it be a child in a car you know you got free Carson and your child in the car you know you've heard stories of mothers literally lifting up a car so I thought that was a really interesting point. I think so too actually. I wouldn't have. It was good to frame it in terms of durst. Is it possible? Sure Yeah I think that was a fair point. So thank you to the listener for radio. Do you want to point out that? It's likely if if things happen. The way. The prosecution contends that his body was cut up somewhere and then brought to the Chesapeake Bay. The adrenaline would be happening during the cutting up of the body. And you would think that would have calmed down by the time you get to the bridge to throw the bodies that you know to throw the suitcases over but all right someone else wrote in this was a couple people that wrote this in that. I found it very particular. That Bill Maguire's remains were found in Virginia beach where John and his wife Susan Live. This appears to be a lead that may not have been explored given the evidence presented so this was an interesting point because a couple of people wrote in bills remains were found in the Chesapeake Bay and his friends. The races are the ones who identified the sketch and called into the police. And they lift right there and might I point out something at this point. Also as the composite sketch does not very closely resemble bill so it. It does seem curious that his friends were so quick to identify him and along with that very recently a listener wrote in which I thought was very interesting. Was if melanie and sue were friends and she saw this composite sketch would she not? I PICK UP THE PHONE TO CALL MELANIE. And say hey. I just saw on the local news. This sketch like could this be or just something. It seems like I don't know it was. It was very interesting. I thought it was a good question Why didn't you know they were actually bills friends? But they knew Mellon quite well. And I know that Melanie had spoken on the phone with John Reysen. Why didn't they immediately call her? My God we think we saw this. I saw the sketch in question. And I don't know tough call. I could see maybe how someone who knew him really well might think it was him but I also see how it looks. Nothing like him actually be curious from other people who know bill what their opinion is on that composite sketch. Maybe I don't know at no you know. Obviously we didn't know him so it's hard for us. We're comparing it to a picture but obviously somebody right in front of you as presents much differently but fair points right. And when you're conducting investigations you're supposed to look into and we've certainly heard of cases where oh it seems unlikely that you know friends are involved or it seems unlikely. Lead by yet. It seems a lead that probably should have been explored at very least they could have explored alibis and ruled them out fairly quickly. I think so. Yeah so fair point. Thank you for writing about that too. So all right. It's time for us to review our final thoughts and conclusions. Please tell me Meghan dying to know I have an idea. I think I might know where you're going but I am excited to hear this well We said that we would provide a couple of conclusions. I about whether or not you know. There was reasonable doubt and a fair trial and second. I guess. Innocence or guilt. So I'll start with the trial. I think it's really fair to say at this point. No no guests here that there was plenty of reasonable doubt and I I really do think that a jury should have seen that however I would also say that. Perhaps because the defense didn't do a good enough job the prosecution stepped over some boundaries and the judge made some decisions that were not beneficial to the defense that they weren't able to I think at the very least I'm shocked that they believed the whole crime scene explanation so in. This case is littered with reasonable doubt. I find it interesting because I think you and I might end up on a different side on some issues but I think we can both hundred percent say. If we were on that jury we would have acquitted. The reasonable doubt standard is that you're supposed to be ninety nine point nine percent certain that someone is guilty So I I don't think there's any way that either one of us could have said that now's the good part okay. Was it a fair? Trial is also a little bit different I have mixed feelings about the fair trial so I think there were certain decisions that did not work in Melanie's favor. I think that there was a huge mistake. It's discretion but I think it was a mistake that Bills ex-wife George. Lowery were not allowed to testify and I think it could have turned the case different way. So you know there were parts of the trial that seemingly were fair. Yes and parts. That were unfair so again. Was that trial strategy or you talk to say. Oh No I think I won't say I don't know I think that the that it was a semi fair trial right and which some actors just made bad moves. Let's put it that way okay. So would you say? Let's get to the juicy part I want to know. Do you think she is innocent or guilty okay. So I don't know if anyone's going to be surprised or I don't know if everyone will be surprised but in the end. I believe that Melanie. Mcguire was wrongfully convicted. And I'm actually a little bit surprised by that. Your tone over the last few episodes may be had me thinking that but when we started out I would not have thought that that's funny because it was the opposite so even though I said in the beginning I was unbiased. I wanted to believe that but it wasn't true. I actually believed Melanie was guilty on the start and I believe that over Quite some time. Yeah I'm even as I interviewed her and Doug through it wasn't until I went real like the deepest dive ever into the evidence into the interviews into the trial. I mean it took everything and I wasn't even sure of my conclusion to be honest probably until two days ago but I think more. Interestingly which I'm on the edge of my seat here is if she didn't do it then who the hell did. Well okay let me start with the reasons why I think she convicted. And then I'm going to get to my alternative theory okay. So number one is obviously that there is absolutely no crime scene. And I can't find a plausible explanation tying melanie to the actual crime itself to the actual physical crime so lack of crime scene is number one on and lack of any physical evidence connecting. Melanie to the crime is certainly Goes along with that number three. I guess I would say two or three. There are several untested human hairs. That were found in all those bags that bill's body parts were found in that did not match. Melanie did not match her family. And there was tons of animal hair and I find this highly suspicious. There were fingerprints that did not match her family or her on so I would personally think that to come to a conclusion of guilt there would have to be matches in in this arena for sure. Okay so reason number. Four the gun that was purchased by. Melanie seemed suspicious on the out front. And it's still suspicious. Don't get me wrong but initially I was like well. She bought a gun. But honestly George Lowery's testimony. This man who knew bill but did not do know Melanie has absolutely no reason to get up there and lie. His testimony would have exactly supported. Melanie's version of why she got the gun. Bill told him I was a felon and I'm having my wife get a gun and a couple of months later. That's just what happens so I think for me. This explains the gun puts out in the in the proper context. Okay so this one was a mixed. I put this down as a point. But it's not my strongest point. The medical examiner said bills legs looked fresh. If Melanie had killed him sixties before. I don't think this would be the case. The prosecution who this was a surprise to the prosecution if you remember when they when they heard that Patty actually adjusted the theory in the end will. Maybe it's possible that she was either drugging him over days and didn't kill him right away. Or maybe it's possible that she froze his body parts and that was in direct response to the medical examiner saying those legs look fresh. Now the pathologist she added you know a different opinion on this but I still think there's a possibility here that we're not looking at the fact that maybe he wasn't killed until much later. Okay let's see point number six. The computer searches which you know we dug into and did our own analysis on. I believe that the I cannot say definitively but I believe the computer searches. Were much more likely to have been made by bill. Mcguire then Melanie so no. We can't say completely. We didn't have our own frenzy. Computer analysts. Look at this but when we put it altogether in the timelines and searched the surrounding websites. I actually think it was bill. Mcguire that made These searches and not Melanie McGuire. And I do believe to the point that Melanie has a PDR and had access to a lot information than bill would have had access to. I don't think she would have needed to leave such an electronic trail Okay I'm I'm getting their point seven while I sense that bill might have made a divorce difficult and might have been a difficult. X-nate think Melanie admitted this much. There was no financial motive or immediate plans to be with Brad. So the motive is there but it's a little bit weaker for me. Even Brad admits no we were. We were waiting till our kids got older. I would not have. Small Kids Melania shocks on their record conversations when Brad ever even brought up About you know I'm GonNa get divorced. She was talking about. This is not even something we've talked about so the motives a little bit week for me but I can still see where people see. There's a motive and I would also say that To a point that I said earlier the consistency that Melanie shows she is one of the most consistent people I have ever seen the story never changes and I find her. Consistency is something that you would have to consider so all of these things when I put them together. Pretty much lead me to a wrongful conviction. Do I have reservations? Es My conclusion is wrongful conviction. One hundred percent absolutely not evidence. Tomorrow that will change my mind absolutely and if I'm wrong I'm happy to say I'm wrong here. The reservations that I have heard the Atlantic City trips. Certainly they are the thing that the strongest piece of evidence I have always thought pointing to her guilt or possible involvement and they bother me so amy and I went to Atlantic City and we went to this motel. We drove and we we. We took video. I think which we may put up at a later date to test us idea. Could she see bills car from you know? She said she saw his car and license place. And I think initially we thought that's ridiculous to be able to in fact when we went by I thought it was. I was shocked how close the lot was to actual road. And it's closer than I had imagined. I thought it was much further. Even when we China like Google map and stuff but when we went by it's it was definitely possible to see a car. A license plate. Yeah and I don't even have great eyesight and I was able to see the car's license me very clear so it's possible certainly again. We tested it out. Also someone wrote in about the effects of ZANEX. Actually two people wrote in about this and I thought this was interesting. Melanie had claimed that she had started taking xanax. And from what I've seen she didn't have a history of taking it. She said that the Zanex really clouded her judgment And I thought well I don't really know about that. And then two people wrote in one very specifically saying when she first started taking xanax or otherwise. Rational behavior went very rational. And she did things she said. She lost time And things that she couldn't believe afterwards that she did so she didn't actually find this to be so crazy. Said sounds like something I would have done. I'm still not sure that I believe that explanation but there was some support so my reservations definitely liddel antic city trips. You know I think they are to understand and you're talking about not only the fact that she went but the fact that she took a cab. Oh yeah in. From high point that out their hearts to that. Yeah no I actually know so the interesting thing is i. Don't think the Atlantic City trip. I should have clarified on there on the surface where that damning okay so with the camera twice right and says I was looking for him. I believe that she went back on the Eighteenth. I it would be odd to me if on. May Eighteenth her you know. Bill is long gone and she knows it. Why the Hell is she going back again to Atlantic city? The only plausible explanation. I can find on that one is that she's actually looking for him. Yeah it's the cab rides that bothered me. Come on the EZ pass. Doesn't bother you as you call these. Sorry ACID I jump ahead no okay cab rides and that. Kinda easy past. Those are the parts that I find very difficult to live with. But if I have to pick assignment I'm GONNA err on the side of just irrational erratic behavior. The choral hydrate prescription is my reservation. Jackie said that she thought Melania had written it There's mixed sort of opinions on this. I don't know did Melanie Right. It and Melanie pick it up. I really can't say I can't say that I feel so strongly one way or the other. I think it seems likely that she wrote it But then I hear that you know. Bill has a pharmacy background. And he has. You know I'm sorry to say it but a forgery conviction and there was a prescription for Dalmatian written a month before and it makes me think someone was getting these prescriptions. And maybe that's someone wasn't melanie but I also don't even know if the choral hydrate was involved in this Kreil. It could have been melanie for some other purpose and then she just lied initially in jet the sick with it. Maybe she was doing it but she was doing it because she needed help sleeping and she realized that was forgery. And she's lied and now she's sick with it. It could be innocuous I agree I think it ju I just think it could be. I don't know the explanation and I can't speculate on this one enough so but these I think my two main reservations are the coral hydrate a little bit but the the cab rides in easy pass so my alternative theory after going through everything. I don't have specific people in hunting to you. But here's what makes the most sense to me. I think that bill was killed in Virginia. Not In Atlantic City I think that bill got himself out of the House and got himself to Virginia. I think that he did meet up with Someone he knew whether this is an acquaintance or maybe with someone in Virginia. I think okay. I think he met up with someone in Virginia And Actually I. I'm not positive if he met up with people he knew he had ties to Virginia. Now he lived there for six years so he knew other people not just the rices or whether he met someone and made an acquaintance in Virginia. Okay this fight was supposedly out Virginia So I do think he went back to Virginia. I do think he was killed in Virginia. I think it makes way more sense than someone killing him in New Jersey and driving the body parts. Seven hours to me. That is never ever made sense now. Can I ask you a question if if that's your thought? What's the deal with the car? Nasc- yeah plant plant the car somewhere else. Clinton. Ac. Where a bill says he always go? You're saying the person in Virginia planted the car. Okay cars a plant on to easier to get a car across seven hours or worried about driving a car worried about driving a body one way or the car was a plant in Atlantic city which made perfect sense. So it's either someone build new or someone he met and said Yeah I gamble in Atlantic. I'm you know what I mean like. If he's a talker and he's gregarious he could meet someone on the first night and be talking about. Let's go to a seat tonight or you know. So That's interesting. I think it's definitely possible. The car was a plan to Atlantic city. I also think that the way that bill was His body was dismembered. I think that he was shot. And I'm not. I could not tell you if he was shot inside or outside but I think that his body was dismembered in a slaughterhouse interesting. Yes I think that the way has body was cut definitely indicates a saw shore. I'm just not sure it's this hand-held reciprocating so whether or not it's an industrial. Aw You could say I think. That in a slaughterhouse or a type of butchery. You don't need to worry at all about tissue splutter. Blood going everywhere. Because that's what's to be expected and liars in it blends in. I think there's also a lot of animal hair in slaughter houses and I think that the way that it was explained that he was extended while that's also a typical practice in a slaughterhouse when a body is put in a certain way the bleeding of a body. So I think for me. It seems a lot more logical and I it was that I think he was dismembered. And the final part here. I would say is I. Don't believe that yes. I believe his body was placed in his suitcases But I don't believe necessarily that they were thrown off the bridge. I think it is more likely that someone took a boat out and dropped his body of the side of a boat. Reclaim suitcases very interesting. So going back to those hairs so your theory could very easily have a little more weight to it. We knew what kind of animal hairs those could. You imagine if they check the animal hairs and it's not just a domestic pet right. It would be so interesting so much more interesting than your I mean I think I have to say Meccan. I'm impressed. Oh thank you. I mean the fact that the body being cut up not having to worry about blood and tissue because it's going to clearly blend in even tying in the animal hairs and you know the blood being drained and you know I. It's it's a solid theory there. I had a little help at this one. Just so you know you did from the person who did it not exactly but I have some input on this. You know I won't take full credit but I do believe it in the end. That is the most plausible explanation to make. Okay and I'm GONNA BE TOTALLY OFF. But Hey hey well you know what again. I think that is a well thought out explanation. Don't choose to disagree respectfully all right here. We go Amy We'll get ABC stations now. But I think we've already agreed on the reasonable doubt. Es The only thing. I want to add to that you know I want to talk about you. Know I would definitely have acquitted her on first degree murder and desecrating human remains She should not have been convicted of first degree murder. Because I do not believe that she knowingly and purposely killed bill were caused seriously bodily harm that led to build staff is going off the legal definition. A quit quit quit. Okay okay okay. Now I think that she knows more than she is saying. It's hard for me to say guilt or innocence. Because I'm really like I said I would quit however I do. I cannot say that I believe she's innocent at this point. I also don't feel comfortable saying I believe she is guilty. However I do believe that maybe a fair a more fair outcome would have been maybe accessory to murder which carries a Max of ten years in New Jersey okay. So that's kind of leading into my theory here. I believe that if I had to say I'm I'm not going through the evidence the way you did because most of our points are going to be similar as far as you know. What evidence was the most damning? And what leaves questions? I don't want to do that but what I will say is. I think that it is possible. That the night of the closing Melanie. I'm bill maybe had a drink or two. It's possible that the Clara hydrate was used to sedate bill just enough so that he could possibly be carried out against his will meaning. Maybe he was a little drunk a little sleepy. There are two purpose in my theory. Melanie did not. There was nothing that Melanie did by her own hands so I believe that. She has convinced herself that she is in the wrong place because she does not deserve to be in prison for life because she did not. According to the legal definition she did not commit first degree murder however I can imagine a situation where she perhaps set up some sort of payment or incentive to other people possibly one car to purpose came to Woodbridge. Bill was sedated enough that they carried him down. Melanie gave one of them his car keys. I do want to back up that Melanie perhaps supplied these individuals with the gun and the suitcases and the garbage bags bills car was packed up and ready to go with everything. They need two cars on the way to AC PERP. One driving one car per to driving bills car bill probably in his car just goes if there's going to be evidence of bill let's keep bills. Dna and bills car right. So that's how bills car got. Ac I think he was killed somewhere between ACN Virginia whether that's closer to AC or closer to Virginia. I'm I don't really have a reason to believe one or the other but I do believe that. Melanie's trips to Atlantic city were to either remove slash plant evidence to get proof that the job was done and I do believe that that Delaware might have been a meeting to give the PERP the final incentive. The job has now been done. And maybe they gave her proof of it. She gave the final payment. Which is why she was in. Delaware and again. I believe that I do not believe that Melanie is capable of the cold blooded murder that they claim you know. I do not believe that she would do such a thing and do not believe she was capable of doing such a thing whether that mean emotionally physically mentally. I don't think she could have done it. Some of this shady financial stuff the money going in going out. That could have actually been melanie moving money around. Although Melanie claims she did have no control over the finances. That's Melanie's claim. I'm not sure if that has been corroborated by anyone else so it is possible that she was involved in some sort of illegal activity or side Hustle. That was giving her some money that she was able to make these big deposits and moving money around a not again. This is all really. I'm not even positive as I'm saying it but these are just things that have been popping into my head so I think you know if this were the case then. She should still not be in prison. Because I'm in New Jersey again. There is a ten year Max for a murder for hire. So Oh either way. There's a huge injustice regardless of. Let's say my theory is true which again I don't know I'm just speculating here. There's a grave injustice being done because you know per one and per to they could potentially still be out there. I actually believe that this per one impromptu who were driving the cars down to a see I do believe that one if not both of them are deceased at the very least serving life without parole anyway because otherwise they would have an incentive to talk right meaning if okay they wanna make a plea deal. They're in prison for something else. I'll give you some information. I know you don't believe that. Because you think that would probably self implicate. But I do think that if more than one person knows the truth it eventually comes out somewhere somehow. Whether it be on the deathbed or a jailhouse informant something happens. I feel like people or person responsible for being the hand of this is deceased or incapacitated in some way whether they be in a coma or you know whether they be so old and ill that or something or maybe they just started life over and they live in another country and they don't even think about this anymore right really interesting. You may cause the Atlantic City trips and explaining those. That's an interesting theory. I actually thought about so. I tried to get my head around. Like what would be any explanation that I could tie her to the crime and my only thought was that she drugged bill and someone helped carrying. Yeah I will say. I don't think it's likely that two more people are involved only because if three people the same way that even if one additional purpose that's why I say information dead though or you know what I mean like maybe But I do have a secondary theory which is fair enough and that was my thought too. I even though I respectfully do not think that that's the way it happened. I certainly can allow for that possibility and I do believe if Melanie is fully innocent. Which again I don't know I you know I'm I'm still trying to figure this all out but I do believe if she is innocent. I definitely think that it was someone he knew in Virginia who either met him in Atlantic City. Oh Yeah let's meet halfway or you come more my way but you know 'cause we do know that he did gamble with some friends that lived in. Virginia it's possible he met them in Atlantic City to gamble. Something went wrong foul play. I might as well take him home with me because I have to go that way anyway. Oh that's interesting then goes so. That's a okay so for the audience. I hope we've given you our final opinions. You know. Interestingly when I started I thought at the end I would have a hundred percent higher. Needs to know exactly right. So we've given you our conclusions to the best of our ability. Do not stand behind mine and like I said my opinion can change tomorrow like you said about yours and I wanNA point out that when we started this. I was like yes. This is going to be a wrongful conviction. That's why I find interesting. We somewhat switched to somewhat switch. I am very innocence minded. You know so you could say on one would say well. Megan clearly came to a conclusion. Cushy so close johnny. She was the one who researched. Who spent time without a right Which could be a negative or too close to it and I could certainly allow for that criticism and I understand that happens but you could also say we'll Meghan knows more because she got so close right So you could say. Amy came to her conclusion. Because she's truly unbiased or McCain's conclusion because she didn't know everything Meghan new so instead I'll work. It's the foreign against and I. I'm sorry and I do have to say that is an interesting point because I never did any of the face to face with Melanie. I do not know Melanie just from meeting. Melanie's parents. This is hard for me to say because I have such respect for her parents that you know so I could imagine that when you get closer to something it becomes very difficult. It becomes very difficult but I mean I think you allowed for the possibility and we both do. We can be right or wrong. This is our opinion to the best of our Best part conclusion. So let's we'd like to end with a couple of future steps. First of all we would love to get information still from the prosecutor's office or from the courts it would be lovely to see what information was actually obtained and used and I have questions again about the hairs. The Palm Prints I also wonder whether cadaver dog was used for the cars and I have questions about the missing surveillance tape so I think that it would be lovely to be able to see more. Get more evidence if possible. Another avenue this before really melanie. Brian would be to write to now. New Jersey has what the conviction integrity unit. Yep that amy. Prosecutor offices have started going back and reviewing their own cases so in other words the prosecutor's Office that convicted. Melanie would agree to take a look back. And you see this happening a lot in very progressive places like Kings County Brooklyn but typically the person you know when they're looking back cases a lot of times. Those prosecutors are no longer working there because it's really hard to investigate something that's yours all order. It presents actually an inherent kind of conundrum. Here investigating our own wirelessly. I give offices such credit because they are really putting them prosecutor offices that are willing to do. This are really putting their neck out there. Yeah I think so. This is just a future step also for maybe Melanie and it might It meant allow her no matter if she's innocent or guilty to at least get some of the evidence that she would like to test again. We also would love a forensic linguistics expert to help us out with these letters that we would still love to be able to determine authorship of so If anyone contact us or if anyone knows anyone please do contact US anime. I give the tip line again talking. Keep checking the tip. Lie So go right ahead. So of course you can always email us at info at direct appeal. Podcasts DOT COM. You can always write offs on any of our various social media platforms or you can call us at seven three two five one zero eight zero nine nine six again. The number seven three two five one zero zero nine nine six and just to wrap it up. We would like to thank you again for listening to our podcast discussing the case and forming your own conclusions. Though we are finished with the season of direct appeal we are also considering cases for a possible direct appeal season two. So we'll keep you posted on that for sure. In the meantime amy and I are moving into another project that some of you may be interested in. Be Sure to subscribe to our new podcast women. Crime also amy and I are working on a new research projects and we need your help as criminologist. We're looking to better understand. What factors are related to culpability judgments in your opinions in your thoughts on Melanie's guilt or innocence will help us do just that. If you'd like to contribute please take a short survey at direct appeal. Podcast DOT COM SLASH. Survey will leave link for you in the show. Notes be assured that all of your answers will be kept anonymous and later. If you'd like to know the results you can check them out on social media. Thanks for listening. Direct appeals hosted by Megan Saxon. Amy Schlossberg our producer is James Varga. The Story Arc was written by Megan sacks music underscore desert media reported mixed and edited by Justin Crowd at J. C. Studios Special. Thanks to Alan Tuckerman. Whose work was integral to this production to view photos. Evidence and engage with other listeners. Visit Direct Appeal PODCASTS DOT COM and. Follow us on. Instagram facebook and twitter. If you tip you can submit through our website or by emailing tips at direct appeal. Podcast DOT COM. 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Pierre McGuire

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45:53 min | 2 years ago

Pierre McGuire

"Well, you was gone muster done a lot of. Got. I don't think that you could ever have. Well, you've been busy about my past mistakes. Yeah. And I'm gone down the whole songs Ohio. I've been riding with the ghost today. We're riding with our buddy, Pierre McGuire, who is doing great great. Great coverage I between the two benches. And he does. He's basically is the sideline dude. And he has has part of the announcing crew for the NHL finals, he he's, we'll find out as sure you may or may not know he's coached in Stanley Cup final only. He's he's eight minutes scout. The guy knows what he's talking about. And no one has a better seat for this Stanley Cup finals, then Pierre McGuire wanna talk to him. And then a special guest Joyce's for quick hits, which will reveal later and I hope you enjoy that. But I got a lot of stuff talk about interesting past weekend, probably, you know, in this time of year, the focus is mainly on hockey and mainly on the NBA. And there was a story that superseded both prized everyone. And because the NBA finals aren't done at the time of recording. This. The Toronto Raptors up to one all over a depleted, Golden State worse team. Although I believe that Kevin Durant will be back. I believe that Clayton's will be back and we'll see what happens in game four, but the hockey is going to be three to one way or the other. So we're gonna talk to Peter Maguire but this past weekend. A heavyweight bout Andy Ruiz that shocked the world shocked the world in a way that I think I'm not sure it's getting as much coverage as it deserve, like watching Andries win that fight against Joshua in waiting a boxing match that nobody gave him credit for eleven to one underdog this, the moment where you're like I can't have that fried chicken sandwich. I'm not going to go to the gym today to Andy Ruiz heavy he unified all the belts and can barely unify one belt around his way needs a seat extender on Southwest Airlines. See built extent dude looks like your cousin who fought five people at a sublime concert. He looks like he just fought twelve people at keen senior. Because he said his purse was on the seat, and then it fell on seats, but he's still fighting people. Right. He's got side boobs, like we were talking about this with Corolla Adam Kroll on his show and Kroll made the best suggestion ever that instead of a championship belt. He's going to need a championship bra. Brought to you by Lululemon. This is the time where we bring he's going to unify the championship sports, bra Andy Ruiz, junior, this dude, I, I loved him in the post game press conference fast hands and knocked down got back up again to quote shove a woman would he got knocked down? I, he took a breath and I was like this dudes done. He's finished and Anthony Joshua a specimen six six chiseled out of granite. He makes he had such a reach event like eight inch reach advantage on this guy. And this guy got inside and was firing punches from down low, and, you know, a lot of landless, and they were saying Joshua was ducking Deontay wilder, who's the other sort of heavyweight contender. The top heavyweight contender for these belts. Ducking him ducking him ducking himself wilder, by the way, is there are a lot of people who criticize his boxing skills in just that he's just a, a wild puncher. He is a Deontay wilder puncher. Did he Tyson fury though? Yes. But like he's a wild ponder. Just is like so unpredictable streetfighter. He just out of nowhere. I love his outfits, that he comes in, in basically, looks like he's going into to an eyes wide shut party right before he's coming from or going to after the fight. He's a great great figure in boxing. And he wanted to fight Joshua Joshua was duck and him so Joshua fight series. The next fight Deontay wilder took was Ruiz, and he got a ton of grief for that. And yet, now here we are while there, we'll have a chance against Ruis to win all the belts, and then he can fight Joshua boxing suddenly is relevant again in the heavyweight class. Thanks to fat, Andy REEs junior. Andy Mexican, he's a Mexican steal a phrase joke that. We made on cheap seats about role Garcia. I couldn't be happier for boxing. We now suddenly have a storyline, we have when the heavy when it's like when the New York Knicks are good. It's good for basketball. It's when the heavyweight division has drama. It's good when it has intrigued it is great for by not to take anything away the middle divisions. Great. And the smaller divisions are fantastic. I appreciate those guys you preciado bantamweight wealth through trade of. Loma chanko and triple g those guys are fantastic course, you know, the Manny Pacquiao Floyd Mayweather that all is great stained boxing, for years. But when you got heavyweights you were just watching the Muhammad Ali documentary his own word you get heavyweights that are at the top of the game. Or the intrigue is at the top of the game there, the cards that people wanna send Ruis is the most intriguing guy ever. Because when you think about who was the fat heavyweight, buddy. It was butterbean but he was always on the undercard. That's right. This guy. This guy is the card, and who was the fat guy, George Foreman. George Formosa verse one was when he was older. When you had like nine kids, who were all named George Foreman when he was selling grill fat burning grill, and he himself was that the right he had earned the right to be fat because you remember him in the late seventies, when he was he was a mountain of a man. He was a chisel guy. He was the guy everyone feared stepping into the ring hands of stone now to put it in context Buster Douglas, was I believe either forty one or forty two to one against Mike. Tyson. I think that has more to do with the Mike Tyson than it does BUSTER. Douglas Mike Tyson was so quote unquote unbeatable. That, that's why there was a bigger dispiriting? He has Josh has been knocked down. I mean he has been knocked down, but he comes back, but it just was unbelievable. Anthony Joshua has been dominating the heavyweight class for like four years. It's not like he's won every fight with a knockout in the firm put in a larger context then we'll get outta here. We'll get to Pierre McGuire tall. Cocky, but the larger context is Andy Ruis junior makes everything possible. He literally makes everything possible. You can be a guy who doesn't work out. You got chest tattoos on your man boobs. You he does work out, but he's just not losing weight. He's like he's like a prince fielder, you're like, are you really vegan? Your huge dude, I guess vegan, you can eat all the pasta you want fine. But I'm saying like he he is not a specimen, he isn't like a like Andy REEs junior should be on the cover of the body. You on ESPN boom. There you go. I'm just saying. He makes it all possible. He makes the normal guys magazine think is done. That's right. But I'm just saying that he, he makes everything possible. And for the guy sitting on a couch, drinking a beer or for the woman watching it, who is just pounding pasta fat shamed. Her entire life. Andy Ruiz steps up. And he is the people's champion the people's champion Andrew is. And I hope he beats Deontay wilder while they're how great would it be? If our champion are boxing champion, right? They're gonna change the way we look at roadwork for the rest of our lives. There you go. There you go love it. When we come back on the other side of this break, we got Pierre McGuire. The great Pierre McGuire from NBC's coverage of the NHL Stanley. He's doing killing in the Stanley Cup finals and we have course have a dogfight with team that we love in great Boston team as well. So it is going to be amazing to hear his thoughts on the series currently. And what's going on this? Volcano choir the project. Of a bony bear side project. If you will song comrade, we come back, Pierre McGuire on the chiefs are comrades, stay with us kept me on you. All right. Welcome back to the show as promised. There is no better time of the year, and no better time to talk to this gentleman, then right in the heat of a fantastic Stanley Cup finals between are very beloved blues and the Boston Bruins, who I can't remember in my lifetime a an aesthetic of finals that have been that has been so much punch counterpunch as this series like you can't predict we're talking to Pierre McGuire peer how you doing? Buddy gentlemen, really nice to visit with you. I'm doing fantastic. Getting ready for game five tonight, boss. I know so this our shows going to drop on Friday, which is, I'm happy that it's too, too, because we won't know the outcome of this series yet. We can talk about every different scenario. You're down on the ice with the best seat in the house, in my opinion, I, I have to ask you because you're so great at this with all the craziness and I don't think it gets crazier than a Stanley Cup final in, in the arenas. How do you remain so calm your when? You interview someone is if you're doing it on NPR, I can't believe it. I don't know probably some experience. I've been down there, a long time in the league thirty one years, but you know had a chance to be involved with two Stanley Cup finals as a scout in a player coach, I should say, so it's something that I really appreciate at something never take for granted. But the spirit of cooperation with the players coaches over fifteen years that we've been doing this has been phenomenal really has to get it. Get what they're getting when they when they're sitting there talking to you. They're so happy to be there, and I always feel like you get a real interview, you really actually get in and talk to these guys, which love. Well, thanks men. I enjoyed doing it and I really appreciate you guys saying that, thank you. Well, we've we've really enjoyed this series on the playoffs on the whole, and this is sort of the interesting thing, I'm not comparing it to the NBA playoffs. But the to go on at the same time, I don't think you would see in the NBA multiple eight seeds beating a one seed in the same playoffs. I mean, isn't. I mean, isn't that crazy that hockey can can produce that because we have something that the other sports don't have? It's called the goalie. Yeah, that's off the goalie gets infla-. Go be problems for the top seed. I've called a lot of one versus eight's in L. Never forget one. Montreal back in two thousand ten beat the presence trophy champions, Washington Capitals in seven game series and Yaroslava lock was a goalie for Montreal. And if he's not in goal, there's no way Montreal wins. But Montreal wanna game seven on the road was sixteen shots on net. You know, you can't make that up. That's unreal. Yeah. I think they were outshot forty two sixteen and they still won the game. So the goalie makes a massive difference in our sport in terms of upsets the king's head Jonathan quick. Certainly, I mean took that eighth play eighth seed kings team very far. And so, you know, it's, it's amazing. What a goal is even bigger than a starting pitcher in the in the World Series, you can even. Start three games. That's a great point. You know, it's more like a quarterback, and Super Bowl art goalies play all time. Just like quarterbacks you starting pitchers might only get two or three starts in a series, so yeah, no definitely makes it different absolute. And in this Stanley Cup finals right now, we've got two of the best in the league playing the best in the league and Dennis game ni-nice game three game three which was a bit of an aberration. But because the rest the rest of the series has been pretty amazing with guys standing on their head. It's been really good. The one thing that stood out in this series of physicality usually, we have a lot of intensity, which is great. But what we're having now is intensity and physicality and there's a carnage factor going on in this series now. That's been pretty amazing to watch and see how the what the guys are gone through on how they're dealing with. It has been amazing to me it's been great drama. And again, what hockey allows you crew puts that hit on? He he puts that hit on helmet. Lewis hit in that game. One and every single Saint Louis blues it blew in the next game was said, we're gonna finish our checks on this, dude. We're gonna all the way through and to his credit Tori. Knew was coming coming and you could see him in the in the pre game skate, he was bracing for. He knew he knew it was coming and I thought he handled it fantastic. Well, that's the one thing I mean, guys know there's always going to be retribution yum. It's just the way the nature is the nature of the beast in our sport. And so now you're looking at situation where does chara come back the rest of the series? I don't think he does even if he does he's not going to be playing with the reckless abandon because you're, there's something inside you psychologically that says, don't lead with your jaw here because it's broken. I would say that there's a real good chance, you'll sees Dana chara play the rest of the series but he will not play at the same levels that today. No charge used to plan on. It's just I coached the player. Rick talk in the nineteen Ninety-two Stanley Cup final versus Chicago and he had a while. For his job actually said before he played in it helped him a ton, but I can tell you he went through unbelievable amounts of pain in order to play, and he was a hugely important player for us. But he had time to actually he'll up before he had to go through this chart hasn't had that time. So it's going to be a whole other question for him at the go through again. It's the human drama. It's the element of it. The guys just fearless leader. And he care so much about the wellbeing of his team. He wants to help anyway possible. Any the mountain amount of crazy is like that play was a result of his insane wingspan. You know, the stick reached out so far, that he's the one who blocked it up into his face. It wasn't like it was shot directly into his face. But that just shows you how many shots he could disrupt. That's a great point too. I mean, if he doesn't have that wingspan highly unlikely he's getting hurt. You know, there's a brain Shan shot. Now, Z would tell you the Dana would tell you he created that opportunity against Boston, because he turned the puck over Hsien made a really good play at the offense blue line. But. That made the wayward passed. So again, he was kind of the author of his own demise in that situation. And the in Shan has been doing it a bunch in this series. He got the open net goal by in center ice making that steel, which he's been all over the place after a somewhat of a lacklustre first couple rounds. The dude who I think is one of the best players on the blues really on, you know, that again very valid point. Here's one thing about Brayden. That's really something that not a lot of fans. No, he's in a fulltime NHL player for nine years. Yeah. Eight of those nine years. He's played on a team that Craig brew is either been the head coach or the assistant coach of. So there's a level of comfort in a level of trust there in a lot of players, wouldn't have with a coach, but you could see braiding has a trust of his coach. And he clearly has a trust to play for that coach. You really trust this coach. And you go back to Baru be as a player. He's a guy that would fight the whole team for one guy on his team. So loyalty and stand. Up for your guys. That's who, that's his DNA. He was one of the tough. When I coach in a leak in the prime of his career he was as tough as any guy in the league. And I'll tell you this right now. He never fought for himself. He always fought for his team. Yeah. There's a huge difference between the guys at fight for themselves, and the guys that fight for their teen she fought for this team not from self talk about that. I mean in, in hockey, obviously, there is fighting that's allowed, which is kind of crazy. It's like just let your brothers fight it out. All right. They're gonna get tired of actually and then we're going to jump on the rug. And then we'll send him into the room, right? So that's set of the old, the old boxes were. But in, in baseball, there's less of that. I mean if someone throws a ball at someone's head, but there was a moment, a couple years ago in the cubs historic run in two thousand sixteen where Anthony Rizzo early in the season. Someone through pitch has got he stepped up on the dugout. He stepped up and he looked at everybody on the other team and says, I'll fight you all I'll take anybody. And I think that showed the rest of his team. Yeah. He's guy's gonna fight for anybody on the team. And that's an interesting analogy ran because the blues, you know, kind of I don't wanna say. The cubs on ice. But they are that team that has gotten so close, and it seems like all the brakes have gone the other way up until this this this season. And I think for us obviously we're big Blue's fans lifelong, but I think hockey needs that story that can transcend the sport. And go to other people to bring in more and more viewers. I think Craig point all true all legit. I mean, when you think about last year and a veteran finally winning a Cup like that's a guy if you're not even if you're not even a caps fan, you say that guy has played so well for so long. This is going to be drunk in a fountain yet about it. I want to see that, but he celebrated like the way I would celebrate. If I won citing those guys the joy when they went to the Washington nationals game like normally the hockey players hang out for like, I don't know five innings and then split these guys were hanging out so long. I'm sure the stadium people like you guys gotta go, this it, man. It's, it's an amazing. Asian trophy to win had the good fortune of touch at twice. And I've slept with a twice. I tell you, it's one of those things where you never wanna leave the bed, if you know what I mean. Yeah. Well, Syria mazing, the fact that you've done that and the fact that you're then standing on the ice and talking to these guys, they know they know you understand how important it again. Going back to how great it is. And how much you capture what's going on in that moment, you know, again, we grew up watching hockey where they didn't have the Pierre McGuire on the literally standing on the ice talking to people to me. I think it's such a great way to get back. Game. We love it. Well, our, our boss NBC came up with this vision back in two thousand four and I'll never forget when they approached me at the Stanley Cup finals between Tampa and Calgary. And they said, do think you could do this and I said, I know I can I just don't think the league will allow it and they said, if you think you can you have the job. And that's how I got my job. They're lucky to have you guys are nice. It's great. I feel blessed to have the opportunity do it every single night. I love it. I let's talk about this as the series kind of winds up. We got a game tonight. And obviously, you know, when this episode drops is tomorrow will know what happens. So someone's going down three two going back to Saint Louis. How do you see it playing out in the rest of the series and, you know again I it looks like the blues to do to win. What are the what is Boston? The is half the play their ground and pound. They gotta get puck steeped dominate the boards at dominate the opposition slot. They can't give up on ran Russia's if they do that they're going to be very, very successful if the Bruins find a way to take away that board plan that ground in town playing can get their transition game going which they were able to do in game on which they were able to do in game three that becomes a little bit more of a complicated equation for Saint Louis figure out. So that's going to be the tell tale for both teams want he's gotta get their skill in their flow game going on team's gotta. Get their nasty roll around in kinda game gone. So it's two different styles. And it'll be really apparent I think early on, you'll see which team will be in trouble, which seem will be okay. I say Lewis has played great on the road and of course, Boston is an unbelievable home team. But do you think them being depleted somewhat certainly on defense that this that could be maybe that little crack of a factor that could give the blue slight edge, or could it could? But here's the one caveat all that took harass has never played this well in his life. Yeah. As he's unbelievable. So when you have these kinds of situations that are mounting against you in the goalie knows that he can deliver that becomes a problem for the opposition. So that's the one caveat to this too, because it got the experience. He's been through two different runs to the final before this autopsied starting twenty eleven but he was there started at twenty thirteen in play the whole way. But this is this is the one thing again. We talk about one versus eights, all the upsets the goalie has an opportunity. A mess CARA and cover up a lot of some of the blemishes teams have will there was that period that that period of time like a three minute period of time where the blues in the second period of this last before they got scored on short. I can't remember pressure like that in any Stanley, and they want to your point that you just made to caress kept kept the puck out of the net on just an unbelievable onslaught. They kept that puck in that zone longer than I've ever seen. I was unbelievable pressure. I've, I've been doing this long time. I've never seen that in a Stanley Cup final. I've seen in regular season games. I've seen it in early conference games. I've never seen that in a final never seen that kind of pressure never five on five like, yeah, we have six skaters on the ice felt like it. What did they pull bidding it? No. But I mean it wasn't amazing amazing thing, but only to be. And this is what could really tell the whole series. So, so Boston short, this is the metaphor there short handed and they come up with just an amazing play. Marsh lane pass great guy catches, it puts it down and then literally put it on goal and scores. And you say to yourself own my God, they just had three minutes of the most intense pressure. The blues did not score assu-. Hand in Boston comes back and scores. And that could be the metaphor for what could turning point. But then the blues collected themselves and found a way to score in the third period. This does like a heavyweight match where they're just standing in there and h giving their best shot and taking it and turning around and giving it right back. No question I think that that's going to be interesting thing to watch in game five to see, you know, which teams going to buckle. I don't think either team of buckle quite frankly. I think it's going to be really tight the rest of the way for about the. I mean can we decide for one moment about rhino Riley, and how he has really changed? I think changed the, the complexity and the nature and the, the makeup of this blues team like that guys on the ice he kinda reminds me in a hockey sense of Colli Leonard that dude is always in the right spot. Always makes the right play. I mean that rebound goal that he basically swatted out of the air was miraculously. He is he's an eighth competitor. You know, a lot of people forget this. She made the league in eighteen year old is. Second round pick. They're not a lot of, you know, first round picks at eighteen that are making a leaky made it as a second round pick as an eighteen year old which is amazing. He's always had tremendous hockey IQ's not the fastest player. He's not the strongest player, not the biggest player. He's just a player, right? It's a really good player. And one of the things that really stands out to me is how composed is he never panics a lot of guys that are, you know, high strung guys a panic from time to time rhino Riley, never panicked, which is really priceless to watch. He's so soft spoken to afterwards, this like a almost like a I'm happy just to be here air about him that like you get the feeling definitely appreciates the moment in the moment. It's hard to see that the when you're going through it. In hockey has gotten you talk about how fast hockey's got an even from the from the nineties to now I think hockey is is almost completely different game. You know, the again, valid point and I'll give you a case in point. We had a reunion twenty fifth reunion for ninety two Stanley Cup winning team. And we had taped made of some of those special moments from the, the ninety two series we were the last team to win. And the only team has ever won eleven straight games to win the Stanley Cup amazing in the playoffs. So we were watching it. And then Mary Lemieux is sitting down with myself in a couple of the other guys. And he said, I think we might be one of the only teams from the nineties could still play in this era, because we, we were really, really fast and we were really skillful. But he's right. We had a different team than most of the other team. That's why we had you know, back tobacco ups, but they're not a lot of teen from those vintages that could come into this Erin play just because of the sheer speed and the overwhelming skill of the game today I totally agree with that we were watching these second game that Wayne Gretzky ever play the first home on it on cheap seats on our old schone SPN with that he did. And watching the second game of Wayne Gretzky. That's the same thing. He was skating in a way that, that speed that no one else was guys just weren't skating that way, they just in seventy nine they just weren't doing it. He was. Circles around everybody. Understood why this guy was so great. All right. So if you had to predict I know that it's hard to do if you had to predict who wins a series in how many games let's don't get into that because I have to stand between both teams along. All right. Well, I do think this is an unborn. This is the series that I kind of want everyone to be watching this, this series, I think, is the type of thing they can then when you talk about NBA versus NHL, it's funny because the Golden State is so depleted in the star power so low right now this is actually a good time for hockey. I think people are tuning into it, because they're saying to themselves way, there's really exciting series. There's an amazing story going on a chance to see history. I think there is a factor where if you don't live in Boston. Everyone hates Boston, so you've got this sort of people ru there's some to root foreign on the root against unless you're in of your in Boston written for Boston. I gotta tell you the ratings from the Saint Louis marketplace. In state of Missouri are off the charts. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Just unbelievable. We're forty forty seven. And we've been rooting for this team was Dan Kelly. Like there might not have been a better Now, Dan Kelly. Dan, Kelly that, Dan Kelly, and Danny Gallivan or the two best announcers ever. And then comes my partner for the last fourteen years, doc, Emrick. Well, hey, I know you're busy. I know you got the the game tonight. We can't wait to watch you do and can't wait to watch on the rest of the series, don't get puck two inches from again. And that was the craziest video of ever seeing that thing as it's coming by your face. You gotta be thinking million things, grazes your. That's great, great video. Man. That's a great. Too much. Thanks for having me on do it anytime you guys have been great air. You're awesome enjoy. We'll talk to you. Thank you. Para mcguire. Look at that air Aguire. You know, there's something about that, which, you know, when you talk to a guy like that, and you understand where he's coming from, and who he is. And you understand that, like, that's the guy who's played that's guy who's coached won a Stanley Cup and it all comes through in how he interviews what everybody's going through. And what a what a great thing on game day for him to give us that much time. We feel incredibly blessed so happy to do it in this moment win the Stanley Cup finals are coming on. We're gonna do a little special thing. They come back because guess joins us for crickets is name is Daniel van Kirk. He's our co host, for dumb people town in our good friend. And he knows his sports. This is special episode and NHL finals episode of you from the cheap seats. We appreciate all you guys listening. Don't go anywhere. Don't change your podcast dial. This is our good buddies berry from Brooklyn, the songs Michigan, and we'll be back right after this with more view from the cheese. Welcome back to the show peer. Oh, piere. Fantastic. Edible McGuire in the box. He was so great. And so honest dictionaries about these predict the series. And I get that because he's, you know, he's in between both teams I understand. But he did give us a breakdown of what needs to happen if the Bruins went win and what happens to happen, if the blues win win, we're on the precipice or something, potentially very exciting. And I'm so glad we had him on. And now we move our attention over two quick hits, and who better to join us with wacky wild stories and the co host of our fantastic podcast. He brings us so much joy Daniel van Kirk your sports and hey, buddy. Well, then how are you a sports fan? You know what's going on in the world of sports and we love hanging with you. So we couldn't miss this upper to have you do crickets with us. A lot of crazy stuff is happening into let's get you right away, Scottie Pippen, all Scottie, Pepe. Remember the Scottie Pippen, days, Pippen, Scottie, Pippen, his suing a comedian. Yes. Did you hear the story Canadian and her husband rented his house? Okay. At thirty thousand dollars a month. I'm like, what comedian comedian? And I never heard, I've never I'm like, if it was Amy Schumer, you'd be like, yeah, that makes and his naming their four-year-old, daughter, five-year-old accuses five years at the time, five year old daughter of defacing his home with crowns, which by the way, Krantz, you can't get that out of any that'll never come out. They said pets peed all over the rugs pets and kids, Scottie. Pippen, is very angry at these people, they wouldn't have done this to hold grant. Oh, well you don't do that. He'd have the goggles on that weight. So who now and their house, he rented out for thirty grand a month to a comic? We don't know yet. What's her name? Her name is her last name is Glazer. So it's not Alana Glazer. No former Chicago Bulls star Scottie Pippen, has accused young girl of defaced, his Florida mansion with markers, and crowns markers. So now that actually look you have mansion in Florida. It's gonna get like craft also like don't you a little bit is on this family to, like, don't you make sure that your daughter? What their excuse was the cleaning crew didn't show up enough. What that he still you left someone else's house like yeah. Can't take care Strouss study biff, but so far. I'm completely on board with Scottie Pippin. Yeah, I get it. And I understand that you can't really vet who you're bringing into your home. But yeah, they have to just if you are the parents of a four year old girl, and debt person has put marks on the it is your responsibility to get high up. Hire someone to. Clean your. If you're spending thirty thousand dollars, right? Mon new grant for through grant, and it's gonna be less than that. I know that's saying, oh my God played to the suit filed last year. Pippen said the girl was four years old damage certain elements of the property with coloring tools. That's his fault. Also. How does hollering, maybe the dad is a really bad drawer? Thank you. Let me get some coloring tools Lindsey Glazer. I can't believe we're Avalon a little over Stanton. Okay. Keep going Jacob wool law had a big fan of ours. Okay. I I just I made a. Shit. And I when I watch Jay comedies heart. Okay. Glazer statement. You guys been doing it. What twenty five years, if you look at our stuff, and they don't like it fine. Whatever I get from it isn't whether or not, it's even good. Yeah, it's just jarring. This even happens to me here in LA when you're like somebody is deemed successful. Or if we're not taking anything with them, the jarring part is. How do I not know you? Yes, that's the jar bridles. No. Who you are? Then you have got to be doing something in a universe. That I'm not that's the weird feeling symbol, but I would be on my radar right? Especially because he has in both seeing you either be an festival that I've been at you'll either be getting some buzz that I've heard of you'll be on. This was not a lot of people doing the Virgil and the and the store on the same. So here's the here's the woman said comedian this in a statement from her spokesman she's got a spokesman Jan. You don't have a spokesman you need a spokesman. Dan? Get one she dismissed Pippen's clan. This is her this quote, who would have ever thought that Dennis Rodman would be strengthening relations with North Korea, and Scott, nobody thought that nobody on and Scotty. No tip in Pippen, what the hell does. That mean would be a crate, winter a loser with those six rings would be the crazy one suing little girl. She said so going, I mean he's giving her a comic. She's. In Broward County court in December two, that's your problem pip don't get a mansion in Broward County iguana in December Fort Lauderdale home causing more than one hundred nine thousand dollars in damage. That's almost three months rent wallpaper. The Cup almost four his home temporarily after their Fort Lauderdale house was damaged in September two thousand seventeen by hurricane Irma. They paid thirty thousand dollars a month for rent according to lawsuit. Okay. So your husband is extremely well, or you come from a ton of money. Some way under so far. Underground comedy, seeing that we don't even know about gold down there. Hip and had placed the home on the market, but agreed to like laser and Walsh in rent as long as it was maintained in top show condition. That's not top show condition. Real on Mesa in the may second minute complaint. The former Chicago Bulls, players, sued the couple said a couple of other pets dog and a cat to urinate throughout the home thereby causing permanent stains and unsanitary condition. Right. We got it. You know what I I'm on the is it. You have to name that you do say you can't you can't named unless unless the woman unless that woman who, who is the comedian unless she is going to step up and take the brunt of the Abie who knows knows on this. I'm with pip on this. We might we might start making shirts. I'm hip, I'm here with. I'll tip with bit with, like the struggle, the Drake, curse very real the Drake or so, you know about the Drake's right exist anymore. We're not trying to defend a belt. You're good. Mean so you saw that. So we talked to the top of the show. I mean if the raptors win, then I think you put it to bed. I mean Drake right. There's no guys Draken Anthony Joshua, I know there's no do the thing with chicken or something like that. And then there was also a deal and then we lost twenty sixteen during March madness or one of you had to have a button half in half out on your shirt. It only watch. Didn't you? And I sit down and watch back on. Did you leave random do anything cubs related that like this where you're at the restaurant that you left at crying about it? That was like nine year old. He called the restaurant says it affect their women houses. Do you have my hat? It doesn't affect their wins or losses in the lease. All I'm saying to you is yes, you're superstitious. Yes, fine. We are super slash. I mean Drake at this point like so okay so, so now the warriors are up. Okay. So now, the warriors are as we record, actually, the words are losing. So now Toronto's up to one to one and if they win a lot of the warriors are hurt. If Kevin Durant, or the other or Klay Thompson can't come back in and play and it's just Steph again and cave on loonies got a problem and everybody's got issues if that happens again, and they go up three one does Drake do allow Drake. Do you allow? Break to sit in the audience. Do Jay Drake Curtis. I'm Toronto Joshua should destroy any Joshua took a picture with him. And said, we're getting rid of this curse, and then he had the most cursed experience ever, which we talked about the top of the show out to break the curse June. I know you're not it's because he over a man. He did not train Tate. He look over a manner. Did the curse look over the masters? Dan, that's asking over the man or did the curse. Look over the mass you saying, the curse, not real no struggle, Israel. Curses not very disagreements quick side question. Who are the are the warriors had just lost. You did. No not. No, no. I, I can't hear me or anyone you're here, you know, it is on. I could hear it. Told me about the music the music she can put it in post. Let me ask you this. Do you think the warriors are good for them be I think the warriors going to the finals is good for the NBA? I think the raptors winning is better for the worry about this next dominance is good rent. Someone else winning even makes it he's seeing all. However, if the Golden State Warriors aren't healthy, and they get dominated, then it becomes a weird side, clashes that Drake blessing. Let's get to. Let's talk about this last one. Now, this is crazy. Okay. And it's crazy for a lot of reasons this story, but is amazing New York Jets lady on lady about who sat out all last year because he thought her Steeler for steel, and he thought that warmer, Michigan state Spartans thought that the Steelers were doing him wrong doing Duri. So he's like, I'm gonna sit out sit out the whole year and then got the money that he thought he was deserved before, okay? Now he's got a lot of jewelry Jewish. You Jemaine Russian jury coming on chain man eating. Eating a single on the outfit, right up in gold channel full had to Topi sponsors. Here we go. A fubu throw baseball uniform. I'm talking cleats socks and the chain Belet's looks good NFL running back leaving on bail out five hundred twenty thousand dollars after two women allegedly dispersed with all of his jewelry. Your jets players say he left his girlfriend's a look girlfriends. Some big is glossing over the fact that this, dude regularly has three with their identified as his girlfriend's. He's Raleigh longs. They're all consensually open about the relationship but he sat out of a lot of football. He sat out of season. Yeah. He created new love dated. He started relations relationships. Collegue connection franchise tag. Well, he didn't can't build them that. Well, because he left his girlfriend's alone, Florida residents to go to the gym, and they destroyed his walls, crowns, just, you know, that day, pip day ransacked his, his closet when he entered the closet. He noticed that some of his items were displaced in his blue jewelry case was open and empty. Blue on. Okay. If you are Levy on bell, you get a safe. Am I right? Or wrong. You have jewelry jewelry out at all do not trust anybody. Because you're making these you had to guess what would you say it, probably had a quarter million dollars or six hundred. I know how much lost five hundred twenty thousand dollars worth what he lost. That's not what he just had out in that causing some items. You know, he did answer the MRIs to make you ready for the missing show items dimissing Adams are two gold Cuban link chains with diamonds, a gold chain with a Black Panther pendant, which contain black and white diamonds. A rose gold Rolex presidential watch in two tone to tone, rose. Golden white gold Cuban link bracelet, all things that I would never wear detectors, in Hollywood Florida are actively investigating the case. The running back is setup two thousand eighteen in March. Again, four year place in Florida for your. Fifty care who you are. I don't care who you think you say how much you have four years, fifty two point five million dollars. I'm sure a lot of it. Because at least right, so brothers got money and, and there's insurance, but you can't replace the trust that he lost shoes right now at along those Danny replace those two girlfriends and second. That's. It's. Sucks. There we go. That's it quick. Thank you. Thank you for sitting in with us. I love avenue on. Hey, just for Daniela and Kirk. Oh, follow him on Twitter at Daniel van and on Instagram inventory. And go to Dan van Kirk dot com dates right now coming in the mid west go see him live. He is amazing live. And of course, go catch him with us on people town, our podcasts that we do together. We'd love to have you signed by buddy. And when we come back after the break, we got a voicemail from a very angry. And newly annulled nil you're gonna wanna stick around for that we right by back with more from readiness. Known this. Hey guys, welcome back to the show. That was fantastic. Thank you. Dan van Kirk, who is a joy. This is an exciting time of the year, and no one more excited about his own personal life, which always seems to supersede anything that's going on in the rest of the world. I mean his life is almost like a sporting event. You think it's going to be a marathon. And then, of course it becomes a sprint out of nowhere, although he strikes me as a guy that would sprint a marathon in dress shoes. We're talking about Nick cage. He left us. Voicemail. Check it out. Jason Ray nNcholas cage here, guys. Oh man. So much going on here out of the in the hot desert streets of loss, Vegas, Nevada. But I wanted to come to you guys, I to respond to some recent Reemers going on, apparently, my most recent ex wife, who again I was married to for four days. She's out here, trashing me and the press saying that, that I'm trying to get back with her trying to reconcile with her. She is out in Vegas already dating somebody else, and she's saying that, you know, I tried to get back with her after I filed for an annulment after only being married for four days. Legis kid one thing and one thing straight guys. Nncholas cage only looks out for nNcholas cage. That's why I'm constantly not. Two women. Yeah. Guys, here's the deal. I I've got drunk, this literally, the descriptions to why I'm no longer married to her. I said that I was too drunk and we got married and it was a total mistake. And then in twelve days later, you can read the report. That's an actual news story. Out down, twelve days later, I went tried to reconcile with her, and she did not take me back. But you know what? I didn't take her back. Yeah. Guys, here's the deal loss. Vegas is a hot bed of summer basketball action. So dick, h can't be tied down. Anyway, guys, we have the NBA summer league is coming here. I've already got my season tickets. I'm already currently camped out under the stands here at the Thomas and Mack arena, Las Vegas UNLV running ribs, fuck that shit NBA summer Pearl. Leaves all the big guys are going to be here on Williams said job, Iran. People Bob, you know, all the guys, you know, we're, it's going to be a hot time out here. And, you know, the Las Vegas aces of the WNBA are out here. Just utterly dominating so nNcholas cage is not need to be tied down to any woman, especially one who I married for only four days. So, you know, I may have called her to try to get back with her, but. I think we all do some things when we're drunk. Okay. Nicholas cage. It's money now. Okay. Guys and you guys just have great time. Let me know if you wanna come out biggest one ever to go. See the summer pro league. If you wanna see on Williams center Kerry, I'm sure there's a Gary playing the VA somber probably kit me up. Nncholas cage will get you tickets to hopefully it'd be a game, but definitely one of the search shows. Yeah. I did did you see the video of him? Did see the video him after he got the marriage annulled the video of him singing, aggressive Kariuki. It was. It's pretty unbelievable. It's amazing. All right. There you go. That's a show. Everybody you go. That's how we do up here in in view from the chiefs. He's we give you the most current people for the events that are happening this week. Stanley Cup finals were knee-deep in at someone's going to be down three two or up three to when this thing drops and think we appear McGuire sort, everything out for us. Thank you. Daniel van Kirk for doing quick. It's always fun to hang with you. Follow at Kenny Stevenson on Twitter at Kenny G, steam, Kenny, G, Stevenson believe, and, and that's it, man. We'll we're going to be in San Francisco at the end of this month. Get your tickets now cobb's comedy club. And if you're in Huntington beach, we did a great show at the rec room a few months back, we're coming back to show their this Saturday, the fifteenth. And so enjoy that or next Saturday, the fifteenth. So check. That out next to the show, Jordan clever, the amazing, Jordan Clement daily from his own new program hoppers vision from clever, and then the week after that Cali wolf anchors Thursday night coverage of the NFL networks game of the week on Thursday night. So enjoy that this is, of course, underdog young gun at silver FOX, and we are out of here. Go punch waterfalls. Stampings. A podcast network.

Pierre McGuire hockey NBA Anthony Joshua NHL Scottie Pippen Boston Jay Drake Curtis Andy Ruiz Boston Deontay wilder Andy Ruis Thomas and Mack arena Dan Andy REEs basketball Kevin Durant Florida boxing
The Business Plot Pt. 1

Conspiracy Theories

41:38 min | 1 year ago

The Business Plot Pt. 1

"On November Twenty Fourth Nineteen. Thirty four a slim figured hunchback man sat before the Special Committee on un-american activities they were an investigative panel that operated as part of the House of Representatives. The man's name was general smedley. Butler and he had information. The committee needed to hear. Butler began his to our testimony by stating that his interest had always been to maintain democracy in the United States but the testimony that followed left the committee in complete disbelief. Butler claimed he was recruited by a member of the American Legion. Gerald McGuire to enact a plan and not just any plan McGuire wanted to stage a fascist coup to overthrow the president of the United States of America and his administration in the end. The committee determined Butler's testimony had no credibility. The simple version is that Butler was lying but some people can't help but wonder if the US government went to great lengths to prevent the evidence for Butler's testimony from ever seeing the light of day. Welcome to conspiracy theories. Apar- cast original every Wednesday. We dig into the complicated stories behind the world's most controversial events and search for the truth. I'm Carter Roy and I'm Molly Brandenburg and neither of us are conspiracy theorists but we are open minded skeptical and curious. Don't get US wrong sometimes. The official version is the truth. But sometimes it's not you can find episodes of conspiracy theories and all other parkas originals for free on spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts to stream conspiracy theories for free on spotify. Just open the APP and type conspiracy theories in the search bar PAT podcast. We are grateful for you our listeners. You allow us to do what we love. Let us know how doing reach out on facebook and Instagram at par cast and twitter at mark s network. This is our first episode on the Business Plot in the nineteen thirties. President Franklin Delano Roosevelt's new deal programs and policies sought to revitalize the United States following the Great Depression. But there were those that veered. His politics verged on socialism. According to General Smedley Butler that fear led to a fascist plot overthrow the Roosevelt administration? This episode will explore the factors that contributed to America's Great Depression and how Roosevelt's policies turned the economy back around. We'll also recount in detail butlers shocking testimony to the special committee on un-american activities on November twenty fourth nineteen thirty four next week. We'll dive even deeper into his claims before exploring the truth behind our one and only conspiracy theory that Butler was telling the truth about a plot. Overthrow the president and the government tried to cover it up on a. Tober twenty four nineteen twenty nine. The New York Stock Market crashed. What followed has become known as the Great Depression? Bits difficult to pinpoint exactly when the American Great Depression was set into motion but many researchers like the National Bureau of Economic Research Have Attributed. Its start to other countries abandoning the gold standard during world. War won the gold. Standard is a currency system where the value of every fixed monetary unit like say dollar is reinforced by real physical gold nations. That honor the gold standard. Have a fixed exchange rate between each other. The problem is it only allows for small increases value during World War One. A few European countries started creating paper currency. That wasn't backed by gold hoping that its value might increase faster by having more money in circulation. They believed it would help their country's economy. Get back on its feet. These nations had every intention of returning to the gold standard once. They were able to but what they didn't account for was the impact it would have on inflation especially in regard to the prices of imports and exports which had a major effect on the United States economy at the end of World War. One United States. Economy was booming. Unemployment was as low as one point. Four percent as people used their wealth to buy more goods like cars home appliances and radios thousands of new jobs were created and they were created just in time for veterans to come home to work then in nineteen twenty four. Congress passed the World War Adjusted Compensation Act also known as the Bonus Act. It allowed veterans. Who served in World War One to collect bonuses for wages lost while serving in the war the catch was these payouts wouldn't be made available until the day of the veterans birthday in nineteen forty-five if they were to die before that year the funds would be given to their estate but with a new and booming economy? There weren't many who complained and with the promise of cash on the Horizon. Taking out a loan in the president didn't seem like much of a risk in addition to this it's important to note that the US was among the few nations who had remained on the gold standard through World War. One which meant that people kept their investments. In American six as a result the banks were wealthy enough to give out credit lines to the everyday person but they were given out perhaps more freely than they should have been and with high interest in essence borrowed money flooded the economy and made it appear healthy but behind the scenes dat was on the rise meanwhile countries who had backed off the gold standard during the Great War were now trying to return to it but finding it hard with their war debts and rising interest rates and at the end of the nineteen twenties the debt bubble burst leading to the worst economic disaster in US history president. Herbert Hoover took office in Nineteen twenty nine. Just as economic downfall began he enacted certain laws and policies that played a role in relief. Efforts like launching public works programs and increasing federal subsidies for farmers as Republican. He believed in limiting the federal government's power but that led him to being blamed for not doing enough many people especially veterans viewed hoover's limited power stance as a blatant disregard for the turmoil happening in the country. He wasn't doing enough. They had just risked their lives for the well. Being of their country during World War One returning home to a job was the least they should expect by the end of October. Nineteen twenty nine. Millions of stock shares. Were sold off in an effort to get out of a crippling market. Then on October twenty fourth day that would become known as black Thursday. The stock market finally failed as a result. People started spending less money and hoarding their gold. The decline consumerism meant less production. Less production led to decreased wages and increased layoffs at the height of the Great Depression. Nearly twenty five percent of American workers were unemployed for context. The unemployment rate in October two thousand nine during the recession was ten percent in December. Two Thousand Nineteen. It was three point. Five percent from nineteen thirty to nineteen thirty. Two American banks were failing. People began removing their money and demanding. Cash the problem was that banks who operated outside of the Federal Reserve didn't have the funds to liquidate. Every account and veterans were hit particularly hard. They soon began to realize that they probably weren't going to get the money. They were promised from the Bonus Act but now is when they needed it most. They left feeling defeated and angry resentful of the same country. They had just risked their lives for then on June Fifteenth Nineteen thirty to the Senate rejected the Wright. Pat Men Bonus bill that would have delivered certificates guaranteeing that bonuses to veterans would be redeemable in one thousand nine hundred forty five the post war. Promise no longer. Look like guarantee veterans. Felt like they'd been robbed. So twenty thousand of them organized a march on Washington. They call themselves the bonus army and they demanded immediate payment of the money. They were promised they refused to leave. Dc until they were paid but morale was low and tensions. Were High James Van. Zandt the head of the Veterans of Foreign Wars and Walter W waters the bonus army. Commander needed a way to prevent an outbreak of violence. They decided to invite Major General. Smedley Darlington Butler to the camps. The fifty one year old marine had served in the Spanish American war the Philippine American war and World War One. He had received medals for courage skill bravery and leadership. They figured his presence might give the men hope. When Butler arrived in DC in July there were thousands of veterans camping in tents and shacks alongside the Kostya River. He spent the night talking one on one with many of them. He learned their food and supplies. Were running dangerously low though they were on the brink of a riot. Butler encourage them to practice peaceful protest. He told them they may be calling. You tramps now but in nineteen. They didn't call you bums. If you slip over into lawlessness of any kind you will lose the sympathy of one hundred twenty million people in the nation. Ironically it was president hoover who slipped into lawlessness. I on July twenty eighth. He ordered the US Army to expel the bonus. Army Hoover's troops descended on the camps and shanties burning veterans tents and all of their belongings. They were trying to force them. Out of Washington. Horrified Butler began calling politicians and asking them to show support for veterans. The Democratic governor of New York Franklin Delano. Roosevelt agreed to help in any way he could in fact later that year. Fdr Ran for president on the promise of hope for veterans and American citizens alike his signature plan new deal for the American people proposed a distribution of wealth. That put the people I it also tried to adapt policies to meet the needs of the time. Fdr Hoover in a landslide victory on March fourth. Nineteen thirty three. On the day of his inauguration. Roosevelt declared the only thing we have to fear is fear itself. And after years of turbulence Roosevelt's new deal seemed like it might just eliminate Americans fears his first. One hundred days in office were legendary. He urged people to put their savings back into the banks and they listened by the end of his first month. Nearly three fourths of American funds were returned. He passed a wide variety of loss through Congress. All designed to restore the country to its former glory and for the first time in history. The United States abandoned the Gold Standard Roosevelt Boulevard. That more paper money in circulation would jump start the United States economy and get them out of the depression. Many Americans commended Roosevelt's swift action. But not everyone in particular. Some members of the upper classes feared his politics were to progressive. They likened his programs and policies to socialism. But if they were going to do anything about it they needed a man capable of gaining a lot of support in a short amount of time they needed General Butler coming up the plot to take down. Fdr Hi there. I'm really excited for you to check out. The new park cast original daily quote. It's a fantastic. Two to three minute. Podcast meant to inspire uplift in motivate your day. Three hundred sixty five days a year daily quote is hosted by my good friend. Kate Leonard each day she shares a meaningful quote from history and gives you the context and meaning behind it. And right now I am happy to share with you. Today's episode the quote comes from Canadian. Singer songwriter poet and novelist. Leonard Cohen. If you like it sure to follow daily quote free on spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Good morning and welcome to daily quote. A podcast original. I'm Kate Leonard. Today's quote is from the poet and singer. Leonard Cohen from his Song Anthem. He sings there is a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in Leonard. Cohen would have been the first to admit that life was far from perfect. There are flaws in everything. But it's precisely these imperfections that allow real beauty to shine through without the bad. We can't appreciate the good. We must continue to live and love knowing that the future will never quite work out exactly the way we plan but even so hope keeps us going by embracing our mistakes and looking at them as just another part of life. We can begin the hard work of doing better in the end. The light will fill the cracks and make our efforts more stunning than we can imagine. So instead of focusing on where you fall short of expectations try and find beauty to celebrate. Even when things go wrong there will be opportunities to improve. Share love and make life worth living. We merely have to follow the light. Daily quote is a daily podcast. Follow on spotify to make it part of your morning routine and let it inform the rest of your day. Daily quote is a podcast original. If you're listening on spotify you can share this quote with your friends on social by tapping the three dots in the top right corner of the episode. Page scrolling down to share and selecting your sharing option of choice. Remember you can find new paths to positively every day of the year. Follow daily quote free on spotify. Or wherever you get your podcasts. Now back to the story when FDR was elected in nineteen thirty to the Great Depression was in full swing and his new deal programs. Were attracting a lot of attention. Most of that attention was positive. What some people felt that his plans for the American economy aired on the side of socialism and according to one man that was enough for a group of wealthy lead to try and get rid of him before we go any farther. We want to mention that. The events were about to recount are based on the testimony of that Man General Smedley. Butler and Butler alone. The United States Congress heard the story and determined it was on credible nevertheless. Here's the story he told on. July first nineteen thirty-three General Butler received a phone call at his home in Philadelphia. It was a representative from the American Legion of Veterans Organization aimed at providing support to World War One veterans. It's important to note that at the time there were those who believe the organization had ties to big business and anti-labour sentiments both of which would have seemingly defied the men and women. The American Legion represented. Butler was one of those people. The caller informed Butler that there were two men on their way from Connecticut. To meet with him. They only asked for a couple hours of his time. 'cause like these were common for Butler. He often spent his days in meetings with fellow veterans. Who just needed someone. Who would listen and empathize? What Butler shocked when a limousine pulled up in front of his home the men inside introduce themselves as bill. Doyle the commander of the American Legion in Massachusetts and Jerry. Maguire the commander in Connecticut Butler invited them inside for refreshments in conversation once situated. Mcguire got right down to business. He told Butler that the legionnaires were unhappy with the current administration and they would like butlers. Help removing President Roosevelt and his supporters from office. Butler was skeptical. His pre-established fear of the American Legion's relationship with business interests immediately raised a Red Flag. But he heard them out. Doyle in Maguire explained that they wanted Butler to attend the American Legion Convention in Chicago in October. Not only attend but be a speaker and deliver a boisterous speech to rally attend these around one message. Get rid of the leaders of the American Legion and return to the gold. Standard Butler declined. He had no interest in getting a bed with the politics of the legion. Or being a talking head for someone else's vision he wasn't even invited to the convention and that's when things took a turn that Butler wasn't expecting McGuire informed Butler that his name used to be on the distinguished guest list but when the list was taken to the White House for approval Butler was removed by FDR HIMSELF. Mcguire said that the president was specific about the fact that he did not want lot ler at that convention. It was all very confusing. Butler publicly endorsed President Roosevelt. He had even gone so far as to denounce his opponent. Hoover and Hoover's treatment of the veterans. He had a feeling that Maguire and were intentionally attempting to pit him against the Roosevelt Administration but their motives weren't clear Butler continued to play into their game. Asking QUESTIONS TO LEARN MORE. Mcguire said he had found a loophole to get Butler into the conference. He could attend as a delegate from Hawaii before the night was over. They'd make sure he had stage time to deliver his speech. It was all too much Butler declined. Mcguire and doyle left and Butler didn't hear anything more for a few weeks but then McGuire doyle returned this time with a new plan. They would have plants in the audience. Butler wouldn't have to win over a crowd. If there are two or three hundred veterans that would be urging him to speak. Butler told the men that the veterans he knew couldn't afford the trip to Chicago and that's when they pulled out a bank book and told him not to worry. We will pay for that. According to Butler donation receipts in the book showed numbers between forty two thousand dollars and sixty four thousand dollars the equivalent of roughly eight hundred thousand dollars and one point two million dollars today. If Butler had learned one thing in his career it was that men who are capable of making donations. That large were the same men who fought against the veterans bonuses. He knew there had to be an ulterior motive. But he couldn't figure out what it was. That's when Maguire and handed him a piece of paper with the speech. They wanted him to deliver according to the plot to seize the White House by Jules Archer. The speech urged the American Legion Convention to adopt a resolution calling the United States to return to the gold standard. So that when veterans were paid the bonus promised to them. The money they received would not be worthless paper. Butler didn't give an answer that afternoon. Maguire returned Butler's home in August of nineteen thirty three in an intimate meeting with just the two of them. Butler demanded to know who was behind. Mcgwire's elaborate plan. He understood the role he was supposed to play but he had no intention of being a call in someone else's machine that's when mcgwire admitted that there were nine different backers. One of whom was Maguire's employer Colonel Grayson? M P murphy. Murphy was a New York banker who had allegedly provided the one hundred twenty five thousand dollars that started the American Legion back in. Nineteen nineteen for Butler. The news was exactly what he feared. Maguire and the American Legion were tangled up in a mess of money from a wealthy banker but Maguire insisted that there were no ulterior motives. Maguire's banker boss Murphy. Wanted to see the veterans cared for McGuire. Hinted that compensation for himself and Butler would be healthy. But Butler was still not convinced. The next time Butler and Maguire met was on September first nineteen thirty three one month before the American Legion Convention in Chicago Butler was in New Jersey addressing regional division of the American Legion entirely separate from any conversation. He and Maguire had in the past. Butler had no idea that Maguire would be present anti never expected McGuire to show up in Butler's hotel uninvited but according to Butler. That's exactly what happened. Mcgwire tried to pressure Butler into making a decision. A frustrated Butler told McGuire that he was bluffing that he didn't have any money. And that's when Maguire laid out eighteen thousand dollars worth of cash on the hotel bed. Roughly three hundred and fifty thousand dollars today. The general certain the cash was dirty tied. Mcgwire scheme Butler knew that every dollar bill in America had a unique number attached to it if the numbers were traced in reported and Butler was caught with them. You could end up in serious trouble. That is of course if mcgwire really was the villain. Mcguire said the cash was from a large donation. He could get smaller bills. If Butler preferred it was all too convenient. Butler made up his mind. He told McGuire once and for all that he wanted no part in his plan. And that's when Maguire felt compelled to reveal the name of a second donor. Robert Sterling. Clark Clark was a second lieutenant in the ninth. Infantry in China Butler had never met Clark but he knew his nickname. The millionaire lieutenant he was heir to the singer. Sewing machine fortune. Mcguire suggested that Butler and Clarke should perhaps meet to discuss the proposition further. Maybe that might make Butler feel more comfortable later. That week General Butler received a call from Clark. They arranged a time to meet that Sunday. When Clark arrived on Sunday just after lunch they got down to business almost immediately Clark Butler had read the speech. They wanted him to deliver he had and he told Clark that it was actually quite gripping to which Clark admitted that speech cost a lot of money which meant butlers. Instincts were right. Clearly there were more people involved in the inner workings of this plan. Then I met the eye. But gripping didn't mean that Butler agreed with the content he likened the script to a big business gimmick an attempt to return economic power back to the wealthy banks and businessmen which is exactly why he already said No. Clark slightly mentioned Butler's house it had to have a decent mortgage that could easily be taken care of but there was a gassed. He was being bribed under his own roof. Based on Butler's testimony. What happened next is a little unclear. We know that Butler led Clark into his study. A room lined with banners pennants medals and Tokens of appreciation from the people. He had fought for all his life. The poor he couldn't betray them as for how the rest of the conversation went butler. Didn't mention exactly. We only know that whatever was said it led Clark to have a sudden change of heart. Clark apparently phoned McGuire and told him. General Butler is not coming to the convention. He has given me his reasons and they are excellent ones and I apologized to him from my connection with it. I am not coming either. You can put this thing across. You've got forty five thousand dollars. You've got enough money to go through with it. It's a confirmed fact. That Butler did not make an appearance at the Chicago Convention in October of Nineteen thirty three but the American Legion passed a resolution to return to the gold standard. Anyway according to Butler McGuire paid him a visit afterward. Mcguire wanted to tell Butler in person about victory. Butler didn't see it as a win. The American Legion failed to endorse the veteran's bonus that is what they needed to do to support veterans McGuire explained that it was a long game returning to the gold standard would eventually result in the veterans receiving bonuses. That would be backed by True Gold. Not just paper. It's not clear. How Butler responded but we do know that shortly thereafter McGuire asked Butler to speak in Boston. At a local soldiers dinner. He would be sent in a private train car for his trip and receive one thousand dollars for his time. It was still a no the next time the two met it was by accident. The general was set to give a speech on behalf of fellow Veterans Campaign for office in New York. When General Butler arrived McGuire was already there. Mcguire heard that Butler was touring with the Veterans of Foreign Wars an organization that he believed actually supported. It's veteran members. Unlike the American Legion and he was persistent he asked Butler again for his support. He wanted to use his tour. Talk to soldiers about rallying to create a quote great big Super Organization to maintain democracy. Mcguire offered to pay seven hundred fifty dollars for each speech that mentioned the idea of returning to the Gold Standard Butler thought. He had made it clear he would not be bought. Then in August of one thousand nine hundred eighty four but the received another phone call from Aguire this time asking him if he was available to meet in Philadelphia over the past several months. Mcguire had mailed Butler postcards from his travels around Europe. Despite seeing through the Niceties Butler agreed to meet. Mcguire had allegedly spent time in Italy and Germany analyzing the role that veterans play in government for example. Mcguire claimed that Mussalini had been made dictator because of his support for the veterans in Italy. Mcguire saw that power in wanted to mimic it. He envisioned setting up an organization for all veterans to support president. Roosevelt Butler stopped dead in his tracks. This time last year. Maguire was against Roosevelt. What had changed? According to Maguire the president was willing to cooperate. Now but Butler couldn't wrap his brain around it. If Maguire was using Mussalini as inspiration there was no way plan stood for Democracy Butler ask. The idea was to intimidate. The president. Mcguire insisted it wasn't according to Butler McGuire said quote. Did it ever occur to you that the president is overworked student? Somebody to take the blame. We have got the newspaper. We will start a campaign that the president's health is failing everybody can tell that by looking at him and the American people will fall for it in a second now about the Super Organization. Would you be interested in heading it? Allegedly McGuire also said that a bit of fascism was both necessary and proper in the United States. Fascism meaning addicted to`real state of government where the elite control society with strict class rules. He was implying that they would pay off the president with three million dollars in equivalent of nearly sixty billion dollars today where that number came from is unclear. Maybe it came after a conversation with the president himself but what was clear was the intention. Fdr would serve as nothing more than a symbol for the country with no real powers or duties he would be a puppet to the banks coming up. Butler takes his story public now. Back to the story in one thousand nine hundred thirty four Jerrald see. Maguire was trying to rope general smedley. Butler into a plan to create a veteran organization. That would act as the puppet master to Franklin Delano Roosevelt's presidency the equivalent of sixty billion dollars would go straight into Roosevelt's pocket in exchange for check power meaning McGuire was staging a fascist takeover of American Democracy Butler pretended to be interested in the plan though he claimed he never supported it. He strong McGuire along so that he could do. More reconnaissance. Details would be critical if we're going to stop them then. Butler contacted an old friend. Paul French French was a reporter at the Philadelphia record together. They would take the story. Public Butler detailed all of his encounters with McGuire to French. He even suggested that French meet with McGuire himself to see what he could dig up days later. French published his first article three million dollar bid for Fascist army. Baird it put everything on the table and of course word spread too powerful circles on a cold dry November morning in nineteen thirty. Four Butler was called to testify in front of the McCormick Dickstein committee about rumors of a fascist takeover. He entered with confidence his normally hunched shoulders. Were held high. This group officially called the Special Committee of un-american activities was created in nineteen thirty four for members of the House of Representatives to investigate communist and fascist related activities in nineteen thirty eight. The committee was formally renamed the House UNAMERICAN activities committee it isn't certain how the committee new of Butler's involvement with McGuire but Butler laid most of the information that we've just covered. He also admitted that he told French about his meetings. With McGuire doyle. Interestingly however Butler told the committee that he was never sure of the American Legion actually had the intention of replacing the president or if it was all talk the next person to testify was French. He claimed that he had met with McGuire in September of Nineteen thirty four per butlers request according to French's testimony Maguire told him quote. We need a fascist government in this country to save the nation from the Communists who want to tear it down and wreck all that we have built in America. The only men who have patriotism to do it are the soldiers in Smedley. Butler is the ideal leader. He could organize one million man night. But when Maguire was called to testify he told a much different story. He told the committee that yes he had met with Butler on multiple occasions. But everything that Butler claimed was not true. Interestingly enough however Maguire's timeline lined up almost exactly with Butler story. There were slight differences. A meeting that Butler implied was very long. Mcguire said lasted only twenty minutes. Mcguire sent postcards but not with an agenda in mind conveniently. Mcguire couldn't quite remember certain aspects of Butler's testimony and the details that he could remember differ just enough from Butler's testimony that he could deny any indication that he was involved in a fascist plot. It became a game of. He said he said without concrete evidence to determine which party was telling the truth. Mcguire claimed that he wanted Butler to run for the commander of the American Legion. And nothing more. That was the reason for his visits. Mcguire also said that he never intended to create a committee for the sound dollar a group of people in support of returning to the gold standard. If Butler were to have helped the American Legion in any way of course he would have been compensated but Maguire never offered unreasonable sums nor did he imply the American Legion had financial backing with political interests during his testimony however McGuire was asked to locate records of a complex financial exchange between himself and an attorney at some point. Mcguire cash thirty thousand dollars that he inexplicably kept on his person. Mcguire claimed the money was given to him for personal reasons and some of it was intended for the attorney. He had no records to back this up. The committee continued calling more witnesses but the investigation quickly came to a halt just two days after Butler's testimony on the morning of November Twentieth Nineteen Thirty Four. The committee released an official statement saying that they found no evidence to justify further action. The statement read. This committee has had no evidence before it that would in the slightest degree warrant calling before it. Such men as John W Davis General Hugh Johnson General harbored Thomas W Lamont Admiral Sims or Hanford McKnight. Oddly enough. These names had never been mentioned in anyone's testimony which suggested that there was more to the story than what was made public. It also stated the committee will not take cognizance of names brought into the testimony which constitute more hearsay. This committee is not concerned with premature. Newspaper accounts especially when given and published prior to the taking of the testimony and that's the official investigation ended. It didn't matter that the committee continued to conduct more research until nineteen thirty five. It wasn't enough for the media and the public to turn on Butler. They claimed he was trying to instigate a hoax that he was a fraud but was he in the final nineteen thirty five report from Congress. They implied that perhaps Butler might have been onto something after all they uncovered evidence that there was indeed a plan but no proof that it was being pursued or executed. What suspicious is that? There were no further actions taken by the government to explore this case further instead. It just went away this week. We followed the case as it was presented to the public. Mcguire insists that he always supported President Roosevelt and had no ill will or intentions against him but the level of detail in Butler's accounts is hard to ignore next week. We'll continue our investigation by analyzing the reports from Congress that continued months after Butler's initial testimony reports that plainly it alleged fascist plot. Then we'll assess our one and only conspiracy theory that there was a planned cudi. Todd throw President Roosevelt and the. Us did everything they could to cover it. Up will examine that theory through the lens of its three main narratives number one. The McCormack Dickstein Committee was actually a close conspirator in the plot to overthrow Roosevelt number. Two key points were omitted from Butler's publish testimony that were vital and understanding the fascist plot number three wealthy bankers were in on the plot to overthrow. Fdr Like for instance Prescott Bush George W Bush's Grandfather. Thanks for tuning in to conspiracy theories. We'll be back Wednesday with a new episode. You can find all episodes of conspiracy theories and all other park originals for free on spotify. Not only to spotify already. Have all of your favorite music but now spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy. All of your favorite podcast originals. Like conspiracy theories for free from your phone desktop or smart speaker to stream conspiracy theories on spotify. Just open the APP tap browse and type conspiracy theories in the search bar until then remember. The truth. Isn't always the best story. And the official story isn't always the truth. Conspiracy theories was created by Max Cutler. And his ask studios original executive producers include Max and Ron Cutler sound designed by Anthony Vow sick with production assistance by Ron Shapiro Carly Madden and Travis Clark. This episode of conspiracy. Theories was written by John Lennon with writing assistance by Kate Gallagher and stars Molly Brandenburg and Carter. Roy Remember you can find new paths to positively three hundred sixty five days a year followed daily quote free on or wherever. You get your podcasts.

Smedley Darlington Butler Gerald McGuire President Franklin Delano Roos American Legion Butler Maguire president United States McGuire doyle General Butler Congress spotify New York Roosevelt administration FDR America Chicago American Legion Convention
Full Episode: Friday, September 25, 2020

Nightline

17:40 min | 8 months ago

Full Episode: Friday, September 25, 2020

"This is nightline. Tonight close case a failing marriage, a gruesome murder and the mother behind bar fighting to prove her innocence with the help of to professor at the this is a case of a wrongful conviction and the new jailhouse interview why she claims a real killer is still out there. There's a murderer walking around even if we discount what's happening to me. Nightline starts right now with Byron Pitts. Good evening. Thank you for joining US tonight a seemingly picture-perfect couple destroyed by deception and murder how the unspeakable acts of a mother grip the country nearly two decades ago. Why some believe she was wrongfully convicted. Melanie McGuire. A New Jersey nurse was accused of killing her husband cutting up his body and throwing it into the Chesapeake Bay. After all these years how could somebody think? That I did that. Maguire convicted of murdering her husband. But now years later, a podcast raising new questions. So you believe an innocent woman is behind bars right now. Absolutely I believe this is a case of a wrongful conviction. This whole saga begins on May Fifth Two thousand four with an odd discovery in Virginia Beach. Then morning a couple of fishermen in their kids are out on their boat in the Chesapeake Bay may spots something in the water. They found a dark green Kenneth Cole suitcase in pretty good condition that was apparently part of a luggage set of three. They put it on board and there's a pair of. Male legs the knee down we kind of figured I had to be other cases with parks. Six days. Later, the student was on fisherman's island in the middle of the Chesapeake Bay, which is a nature preserve. and. She saw A. Green Kenneth Cole case. Inside. The suitcase would be the torso and the head of a male. The torso was still attached with the arms and the head. The medical examiner is able to determine that the victims been shot multiple times. There are a couple of gunshot wounds in the Torso area and one through the head. Of the third suitcase was found on May sixteen, two, thousand four in the water by a fisherman. This case contained the pelvis. So from the waist down to above the knees. A. Police sketch artists create this image of the deceased man is released to the press and recognize to be bill McGuire by his friends John. Ensue Rice suceeds the picture on TV and the only way that I thought it could be bill as the yeah he's missing to. Dole Maguire had recently had a fight with his wife Melanie hadn't been heard from since he said he was leaving and he wasn't coming. He would say things like that all the time I didn't actually believe that was the last time I was ever going to see my husband using fingerprints from an old reckless driving charge police identify the body is bill McGuire and notify Mellon. And I just. I burst into tears. New Jersey couple married in one, thousand, nine, hundred, nine. First Child born soon APP. What was your relationship with bill? Like in the beginning, we had a bit of a tempestuous relationship even before we got married, we would break up get back together. He had a dual personality. He could be very likable, and then on the other hand, he'd be very calculating manipulate you. I think she thought that she could maybe change him make him. Happy. She truly did love him. He had always had issues with gambling. He wanted what he wanted any couldn't get it. Fast enough and with that came frustration and eventually that frustration became directed at At me. Telling ABC News in two thousand, seven about an argument they'd had after bill got a traffic ticket. I start to argue back and the next thing coming out of his mouth is when I get home and kill smash your face in it's very difficult for me to think back on it because I actually drove off in the middle of the night and I, I had left an state. Why did you stay? I wasn't strong enough to live. Did you love him? I did I did and even though now at this point bear in mind I'm having an affair. Just before giving birth to her second child Melni began an affair with Dr Bradley. Nila. Adopt rather fertility clinic where she was A. I really tried to fight it, but I couldn't. I couldn't fight it. Despite her involvement with another man melody was buying a house with her husband Bill. The marriage wasn't going well at all. So why were you buying this half million dollar house together with end in the past week come to points for we had been in similar situations. And he would. Ultimately. Something would happen and he would go and gamble the money away I. figured this at least was an investment. Closes on the House on April twenty eighth that night Melanie says that a fight deterrent physical here's laundry basket and there's dryer sheets hanging out of one of the baby sleeves. He hated the this type of mother was that I would leave this the sheet in there for for my baby to possibly choke on a four I know what I'm. Up Against. The Wall. And the dryer sheets being shoved into my throat. And then he just smacked me. I looked down. Here's my two year old. By. Grab the baby. And went to the bathroom behind me shut the door I just wanted away from him at that point. He said, he was leaving and he wasn't coming back and I could tell my children they didn't have a father. Nobody says built a golf. APPS. The fight. She says, she didn't hear from him. Then she didn't try calling in east to happen when we fought. You know. I'd call whether it was to tell them off or to try to apologize what we end up getting back into it. Again, I'm done now she'd been retains a divorce attorney files for a restraining order against him on April thirtieth the day after their fighting, she had to go in front of a judge and give sworn statement about the incident that happened. Did He? Not until well. I don't mean to sound like I had absolutely no. Sense, not nice things. Flattening Melanie does not file a missing persons report on bill. What bothered me was that Melanie never reached out and said, hey, bills missing once bills body is identified Virginia police ask Melanie to come in for questioning. She brought her divorce attorney and a criminal lawyer from the same practice. She was nervous. She was visibly shaking. She made expressions like she was crying but she never. Had a tear in her on. She suggests police look for bills car in Atlantic City did he get involved with the wrong? That's what I would have to believe that he had gotten himself into something. and Bill always thought he could handle everything. Police then searched the townhouse the couple been reading before buying their house. The apartment was empty she had already moved down. Virginia Beach Detectives find out the Melanie McGuire had given most the bills belongings away to France cousin. Eventually, they'd found out that most of the bills clothing was still in black trash bags much like the bag that contains bill Maguire's body parts. The garbage bag by site look identical. The body was released. Melanie on Tuesday immediately. She had him cremated. And the funeral lasted all of. Ten to fifteen minutes at the most. I just told her. I said Melanie. Bill deserves so much more and Melges said well, I'm a single mom now. And now I've just got to get on with my life and after I got off the phone John She did it Coming up. Everything pointed to Maguire. The secret recordings between Melanie and her lover. Every. I know. Tom. Six months after bill requires bullet riddled dismembered body washed up in suitcases in Virginia beach investigators turned their focus to new jurists he and his wife Melania had lived in where he was last alive. A task force had local police state police, the Attorney General's office they decided to treat this case with top priority. please. Search for a record with the gun used in bills. Murder turns up a purchase made by Moni in Pennsylvania. Because Bill, McGuire had a felony conviction stemming from the surrender driving record he was barred from purchasing firearms. You say your husband asks you to purchase the Gun, but you purchased a gun just two days before your husband went missing. Of course it's a coincidence. However, he was on me for a while about that. If he was in some sort of trouble that may very well have been. The reason why he was so intent on on getting it. As. Fleas. Hondo Melanie they begin wiretapping her phones discovering her affair with Dr. Bradley. Middle. Providing possible motive for the murder. Eager to prove his innocence Dr Miller agrees to wear a wire. Shwarier. Children's lives. Investigators also focused a melodies highway toe records trying to track her movements in the day surrounding bill's disappearance. On April thirtieth two, thousand, four the day after the couple's allege fight in the day melody foul for a restraining order. She says, she goes Atlantic. City looking for bills car. Absolutely, not rational that get mccaren and go down there. and. Behold. There it is. She decides she is going to move his car. Melanie says in the past when they're angry at each other, it's a way of messing with each other. I guess you could say we believe she was planting his car in Atlantic City. She was trying to create an illusion that Phil McGuire was still alive. Investigators also find that five days after Bill went missing Melanie. took a trip to Delaware she says she was furniture shop. We believe that that was when she took the suitcases with bills remains and rid of them in the Chesapeake. Bay. And, the first suitcase turned up the very next day circumstantial evidence against Melanie is piling up but investigators need physical evidence to link her to bills murder. So they scour the couples townhouse they couldn't find any forensic evidence whatsoever to establish that this was a crime safe I. Don't know how you would dismember a body and effectively. Clean that up. Still. Investigators decide to arrest. Melanie. On the circumstantial evidence more than a year after bill's murder. Two thousand seven trial becomes a media circus. The evidence in this case points to a well organized meticulously planned execution of murder. We you somebody if you were going to do something, you were going to do it all the way. Correct. If that's the case, then I would have been short not include my own luggage. I. Don't get to be an evil genius an idiot at the same time. Prosecutors present evidence they say was key to Mel these plane including a forensic examination. The Maguire's home computer search also submitted as evidence by the prosecution. How to purchase guns illegally. How to commit murder an undetectable poisons was searched. I was a nurse if I wanted to look for something like that I have a book that I can look in that doesn't leave Internet history. And then the evidence that was referred to as Human Sawdust microscopic pieces of bill. Maguire's flesh investigators had found in his call. That theory was that this nurse who was kind of? Meticulous, the accidentally retract tracked these human sodas particles build body from the house of the car. The prosecution start with Melody Sloughing Dr Bradley Miller, and the secret recordings he made for investigators. If you tape recorded her then head additional. Intimate relationship correctness. I think that was damaging to his character and was very big turn off to the jury. We looked very closely Dr Miller. There was no evidence connecting him with this crime. How do you find the count of the indictment charging Melanie McGuire with a murder of William? McGuire. Guilty. Only Maguire is now serving a life sentence, Edna Marion Correctional Facility in New Jersey. Having exhausted her appeals, she reached out to criminology Professor Megan Sex. She had done really poorly in the court system and I think she was frustrated and after visiting with her the first time I was like this is a story. This is important. Two Thousand and nineteen section or colleague Amy Schlossberg decided to make a podcast. This was the first time. Somebody was basically saying. You. Series looking into the gun used to kill bill, which was never filed and those trash bags body was trapped in the prosecutor said Mesh trash bags. Melanie used throughout bills close. He ran tests that he didn't do all the tests that you actually need to definitively say whether these bags matched. They. Put on a really good show and I think when you have props garbage bats allow those do look like based on the testing we had conducted on the results that I observed. I felt competent at that time to conclude that the bags will produce during the same run. And questions about animal hair fouled and sad the suitcases that help bills body. They looked high and low to connect Elenita to some pet, and once they found that there was no way to connect melanie to these pet hairs. It became not of evidentiary value. You mentioned that you found some animal hairs did you find anything that you considered of evidential value? No. Melanie did not incapacitate shoot us a saw to dismember her husband, and also if the crime scene didn't happen there and she's home with her children all night. What where is this happening? There are just too many holes in this story. This was a murder trial. It. Wasn't a contest to see who could outsmart the investigators, and if someone is smart enough to successfully hide a crime scene that they win. Did you find any evidence that exonerates Melanie I? Wish we did I had hoped we would I still think that we might get a tip in that direction. What do you say to the people at home? Who Watch system say how dare she talk from prison and bring this all back up. Again, the killer is out there. And It's not. There are times when podcasts and media can shine a light where what the government did was not right. This is not one of those cases. Built deserves to remember as a fantastic. Web is his voice. Tomorrow President Trump intends to nominate federal judge Amy Conybeare to the supreme. Court. Filling the seat of Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg who became the first woman and first Jewish person to lie in state at the US Capitol Today. Soon, into the official announcement expected tomorrow afternoon. That's nightline for this evening. We'll see you right back here time next week. Thanks for the company America good night.

Melanie Melanie McGuire bill McGuire murder Dole Maguire Dr Bradley Miller New Jersey bill attorney Chesapeake Bay Melanie I bill Maguire Virginia Beach US Atlantic City John She Byron Pitts professor A. Green Kenneth Cole
Being 'proud' of Collingwood

The Signal

19:44 min | 3 months ago

Being 'proud' of Collingwood

"This is an abc podcast. I'm actually speaking as i'm standing in my son's bedroom and go to use magpies scarfs and being the up on the wall. It's tough when you got that new clouds as bad as what's being revealed at cisa tossing the resolve. It's been a hard week to be calling would supporter one of the biggest richest and oldest. Afl clubs melvin has been found by a team of independent research is to be home to a distinct and aggressive strain of racism and the response from the club's president was about as far off the mark as you can get vicious historic and crab day football today. We embrace a leadership position on the most fundamental of rights quality to be who you are based on your abilities and character and nothing else. So eddie mcguire has since walked back that comment but not before it did a lot of damage so how did calling would get to this point. And what does its racism scandals. Say about the nfl and about australia. More broadly. i'm steven smiley. And i'm angelov lapeer. And tha down the signal. Getting the measure of collingwood's racism problem. And what comes next So even if you know nothing about the nfl you've probably heard these plays nine in the past few days. Herod shayla mumba was a star player for calling would between two thousand and five and two thousand fourteen in fact when he was just twenty three the magpies coach mick malthouse said he was a future club. Captain and over his nine years at collingwood lumumba by the anglicised. Name harry. Brian until two thousand thirteen played one hundred and nine thousand nine games including the grand final in two thousand ten. That was the year that they were actually too much is after calling word and saint kilda drew six. Ti oil in the first one and lumber didn't only stand out at collingwood his skills on the field he was born in brazil and as the son of a congolese father he also happened to a very small number of black planet an overwhelmingly white football club and in two thousand seventeen documentary. Ed on sbs. He talked for the first time about what that was like. There was plenty jerking around. You're trying to find your place within the club so you'd be honored to get any to some mine. Was the nickname chip and on top of his own experiences. Lumumba also spoke out against calling woods. President eddie mcguire. Particularly regarding the time that he suggested indigenous sydney swans player adam goods be used to promote the musical king calling fa- kinko get good stanford you know. It's something eddie. Mcguire has apologized for and described as a slip of the tongue. But the episode made an impression on lumumba. Eddie mcguire is with william and harry. O'brien has chosen to join us. Israel harry thanks for doing that. We see more indirect racism in saudi. Once let slip the the the sleep. When i challenged the comments that eddie mcguire had made employees of the collingwood football club. Decision-makers identified that. I had gone astray from the club's virtue of side by side. I can remember feeling the osler. I'd ever felt in my life. I came to that realized. Fuck i actually. I'm extremely insecure about a lot of things. How self conscious. I am about the wild look equally my black skin that i didn't realize that started from a young age now reaction to comments over the years and more specifically to his description of what happened to him at collingwood was ugly. The club questioned his mental health. It disputed whether the racist nicknames had ever been used and denied there were any cultural problems with collingwood itself and quite a few people in the media joined into but those denials of the mambas claims. Were comprehensively refuted this week jack. Would you mind introducing yourself. Full name and title for the record plays My name is jack let him. I am currently the acting managing editor of nrt digital verify on top of those credentials. Jacks also taking an interest in lumumba's korea and treatment fees are recall watching him play Unfortunately i am a collingwood magpies supporter which makes all of this even more difficult to resolve your personally To reconcile myself to the yeah. He was a great player Then from twenty four seven at emerged that he had had some of. You know bit lighter that he'd experienced some racial discrimination and worse than that really. If there's any worse than racial discrimination. He caught that from the club itself and a lot of seemingly allies of the club. The club tracked him through bicycling gasoline. In what he experienced what he jude didn't happen. When you say gas led how was hey smeared it like what. What form did that. Gas lighting take will. Everyone knows what gas lauding is. These days been insured for those time when you have. Your reality challenged not only cabbage completely new reality pressed upon you. So that's what heredia lumumba experienced. He came forward and not always from the club from the media. Basically they put forward that he had invented it. He'd come up with himself and that wasn't what actually occurred on here that he was suffering for the all sort of nervous breakdown so scenario mental health problems personally ice dad four been aware of issues or concerns challenges so that narrative was really pushed Strongly from the club but tighten up and run with media artist. His chaim stuff specifically. There aren't many who signed that. I heard that there aren't many people at the club side that they heard that so. That's what i'm trying to get a sense of how widespread it was. I would say. I'd be very surprised if with a majority of players weren't aware of the rice who of the racist jokes or the nickname. But that's the thing hang on what they're doing is consistent with the way that i have been in. You know we see this a lot with anybody that has courage to speak out against the sorts of things. Despite the fact that seeks of harry cello members teammates had corroborated his account of his experiences at collingwood that skeptical response still stood as the effective loss on the subject really up until this week as applied support. I mean lumumba's talked about this. Sort of why monoculture among the players in the club. I mean does that tally with what you know about the club. And how do you sort of reconcile. You'll support for the tame with with that sort of description. Milligan i'm not a cloudy and solder I come from north and by the work. I'd actually get interested. I felt so it took me a while to get on board but Moved from up. North down fitzroy and collingwood area by process of elimination calling. Now they've been known as a racist club for decades. You got back to that. Image of nikki. Women listening is jumper twenty at the color of his skin. That was vicky cock and response to some pretty vile colored spice from the crowd size. We my guy on it off the ground ellen. Richardson is had this. Mock for decca. But still we had all these old school hotline storage black activists from sixties and seventies and before that really supporting collie and. That's what a lot. That's what got me on board. What are you. This irony this The fact that. Why would these people that i have looked up to as as prominent figures in evers activism. Since i was a kid why would they support the most reviled and non-racist club in the in the code A lock that talking with people that were involved within the club there have been efforts to some time to replace the leadership with people that Obviously of a more tolerant mind but those efforts of being frustrated along the way. I hear these things and they're the sorts things that play out in that car crash. Trying records a pressure that calling would pull together on monday good afternoon. Everyone thank you for joining us here. My name's jodie size la thanks jody. Welcome everyone this is an historic and proud day for the collingwood football club. Now let's let's get to that So the back story to that press conference is this report. That calling would commissioned in july of last year it was carried out by larisa baron and linden creams. What did the report side in in short Toxic culture within the club and agenda slide in grind structural racism. And you know these people. So john boehner is treat. That comes out of t s. Stop status Scott larussa barrett landing Like the brilliant research the smart mines not going to mess about you know When alert that this were behind. The people are going to do this order. Kona raise the question of what calling with thinking in our alison whitaker's and other ones part of the team like these people. Just they know that doing going to mess around. They know racism when they see. They know how works. They understand the workings of rice's which you know to be frank strata. Broadly speaking does not get this. Like you. know a kid. With a buckets on its head. Banging the wall But every nuance every sort of skaric That makes up what. Racism is These guys know about it and his calling with going. Yeah we'll get them to call and someone inside the club as obviously had the influence in the ability to get somewhat in that you doing in the new iphone. Yeah and i'm really interested in this story about how the report was handled so they got this report back which was a bomb waiting to go off right and that was in december but it didn't come out december what happened. This is really where life hit boss choice so to speak yet in december or think it might have been december twelve district report got titled and very short eddie mcguire announced that he would step aside as president at the conclusion of twenty twenty one season. That is why making this announcement to not to give interested parties and more to the point. People are interested in time to get their affairs in order and for me and my board have the opportunity of providing barack obama style transition rather than a donald trump experience. So that's the came and then nothing happened. You know they just sat on it up until sunday not win. It was made available to around about half a dozen sort of sections of the community. Let's say included media in mob you. As a journalist custom opinion have come from inside the club and that was sunday sunday. And then monday. The was the media comforts cold by hollywood to scramble. Scratch together pressure in which was as roma himself says the to watch in the last six years in particular in a deep dive into how we can make ourselves better i up and then to provide leadership and conversation in the community as early calling with k now what i saw yesterday was a clear case of cowardice. Visit clear case of football club. That is delusional. If that's the way that collingwood wants to address the fact that an independent report that it did not want to be out in the public. Now i i. I know that. For a fact that i'd be nothing. Congress will go club since late last year. When i knew i had the report. I be knocking them to that report and it was not getting to me. I had it was. It was actually sad that i had to receive that for media sources. So what i saw yesterday was directly in line with the condemnation. Really all what report of the report. The it's a proud day quite was the one that really a through people rised. Everyone's eyebrows But beyond that. I it extrordinary. Quiz was was that with that other parts of the press conference like what was his general sort of wives speaking about it. And and how. How did you interpret. He's general way of talking about the contents of the report. Well it was pretty much an extension of the attitude that culling would his head. The club has had The club leadership is had towards issues of racism. Thin with inside the club On the field observing other instances of racism in the code and then as lumber and another others pointed out like the ripple effect when you started rocking upon you ceo eye circles that was it reverberates resonates in broader stralia public. And that's kind of what You know lumumba when we spoke to him at a an an effort to soda stress is that this is more than just about the club. This is you courageously taking a stand against something. That still are prevalent in this society. We need to be really precise with how we can. Firstly identify racism. That divide is calling football club. It's something that is in the report states and structural it's embedded within all of the systems that they have for the way they operate from administration level to the board level to the football department club that's structured in a way that as the report reveals failed to me his legal requirements for dealing with issues infringe on people's workplace rights and human rights. So let stoops. Just don't be the harry. What happened to you for everyone. Listening just explain. can you. What happened to you when you went and said look. I'm being called chimp com being. You know these racist slurs are being made. What happened to you. When issues are raised. And this is i can. I can attest to this. When issues arise racism. The club is more likely to deal with it as damage control and you were to silence the individuals that raise it and if it does reach the public that's when now act later in the wake as we said eddie mcguire adid retract that comment about it being a proud day and he apologized for distracting from the findings of the report to and then yesterday the cubs players also expressed remorse in a written statement. And as jack said the club is underway. Eddie mcguire has already announced his retirement at the end of the season. But the key question. That is still unanswered. Here is whether the problems to do with systemic. Racism that were identified in the report have been fixed and on that issue. Jack says he's optimistic. Up to a point is is attention and the fact of the reports existence and the way the story played out. Do you think a sign that this problem is being taken seriously and could be addressed as a result. I think it's a great provocation. That's the best we can harmful. Yeah absolutely taking seriously. This absolutely gosar frustrated even within the and i know this fact. They're people that have observed source officer while trying their best to bring attention to to make change within and frustrated. Still to this to be serious. The what we what this moment. Iso recognizes that it needs to move. It needs to act. And i think of something other bath fills review into calling would would have been even worse than the one type of by the jumba institute fleet. They do that review again. There's someone actually speaking as i'm standing in my son's bedroom go magpies scoffing the up on the wall. It's tough when you when you got that you clubs what's being revealed. It's tough Today and for the wake. If you are enjoying the signal please take a sector right. It's a review. Maybe give a writing. It does hope. Other people find the show and i guess it makes us feel nice as well. We'll be back on monday again. We'll catch it in i. You've been listening to an abc podcast. Discover more great. Abc podcasts live radio and exclusives on the abc listen app.

eddie mcguire lumumba collingwood football club collingwood steven smiley angelov lapeer Herod shayla mumba mick malthouse collingwood lumumba President eddie mcguire adam goods nrt digital football nfl heredia lumumba harry collingwood harry cello vicky cock Lumumba
Dick Morris - President Biden's first 100 days.

CATS Roundtable

06:28 min | Last week

Dick Morris - President Biden's first 100 days.

"Good morning america. this is the cable. Try and catch for teams here sunday morning. What's going on in politics. Well whether it's new york whether it's the country dick morris one of the Sparta strategists. I know the democrat republican. He knows where all the bodies are buried Good morning dick. Morris how are you good morning and the important things not just with the bodies are buried. But who's at the mortuary going to the grades. And i think scotch during your is one of them. I mean that figuratively not literally In his mayoral candidacy and just like cuomo doesn't recognize this. He's dead studio doesn't recognize the she is over. But it is. And i wanna to make a flat out prediction on your show cat. I believe that andrew gang is going to be the next mayor of new york. Well you know the latest latest. The latest pose as of Saturday was entry angles. Down to twenty two and eric adams was up to seventeen so having debate last wednesday I think it's still. Maguire is coming in fast. So it's and mcguire was on debate last wednesday and he gave me was impressive. We're two things that that the first screener with that was before springer was Was accused of almost raping a girl. I mean and andrew cuomo sexually harass people allegedly and that verbally and maybe tried to kiss a girl but The allegation against three or is he literally put his hands all over and did that repeatedly. And that's the that's awfully close to rape. I think it's much more serious. And i think and i think that stewards basically have to work. So i can't imagine although new york's anywhere where we are but He was your get it. And i think that it'll be to most importantly. I don't think that this this means that he can't hold the white liberal. Jewish vote and that vote is now up for grabs. There is really no white liberal jewish candidate and i am in the major attack and i think that yang will inherit a lot of those votes because exposure during the presidential race. I also think that the polling is citing. He's okay but you can always the ballot new york. Were you both to three people at once. And if your first choice make you vote for your second choice and your third choice. And i think that yang is going to benefit from that because well agents are only fourteen percent of the population and probably a little less to promote If they are. I think that many of latino vote will vote for Or morales but. I don't think that those candidates is strong enough to get to make the final cut. And i think the third place votes of money of these latino vote is that the white business community Mcguire may both. And but i think there will also be a lot voting began. I think the third choice second choice of all great many of them. There's going to be. And i think like conservatives Like catholics probably also been both for somebody else may be and then yang or maybe i i just. I don't think that many of avenue is the second place votes will go to gang. And i don't think. I think she will not preempt yang for being to go into the final cut and i wanna fly that predict today and gang will be the next mayor of new york and let me say that was saved new york city from disaster in malaysia. We all hope so. I think every new yorker your new yorker you may live be. You're in new york and you love the august thirty five years. It was born here when you went to columbia. Lived there until i was thirty five. Look i think one more thing. One more sidebar. We kind of but another minute. Two minutes left another sidebar. Is that on. Saturday stringer claimed that that girl that accused him was actually a girlfriend not just an intern. And also that that girl works for yang. So everything well accident. Yeah but come on. Works began probably because she can't stand stringer and Of course she couldn't in the fact that she's working against her and you're not a rebublican affirmation for charges against him by the way after she was his employees for what ten years. So that says something about per- about who's doing is and I think that That stringer is a gone goose. I also feel that young will save new york. I think that The asian community is a hiring. Come more affluent more Integrated community so you're dealing with people who are not poor not underprivileged and I think that they will help build new york. I think coalition. 'cause the business community the asian americans and many of the white white catholic conservatives and those jews are now free agents as really an elective and i think it provided stable moderate governing coalition. That's left that's liberal. He favors a guaranteed income for everybody. And all of that stuff I think more semi remind everybody you're gonna be on. Wabc radio twelve o'clock every sunday till one o'clock in the afternoon. Then i believe you're gonna newsmax after that when i'm doing one you're on the show. Wabc is i'm gonna start with the details analysis of the mayor's race you can give your flats and ideas about it and then the second half. I'm gonna take excerpts. Wabc debate of the mayor. And i'm going to rebut. Who would each of them said dick bars. Thank you so much and rose listening in new time. Thank you for coming on. God bless you. God bless america and i hope god bless you even more. This is the catch some table. Be right back.

new york yang andrew gang eric adams dick morris Sparta cuomo stringer andrew cuomo Maguire mcguire springer Morris dick america morales Mcguire white white catholic conservat malaysia
December 27, 2019: Dian Fossey Found Murdered

Today in True Crime

13:41 min | 1 year ago

December 27, 2019: Dian Fossey Found Murdered

"Today is Friday December twenty seventh two thousand nineteen on this day in nineteen eighty five. Live primatology Diane. Fossey was found murdered at her research. Camp in Rwanda to this day. Nobody knows who killed her. Or why. Welcome to today in true crime prime a podcast original due to the graphic nature of today's crimes listener discretion is advised extreme. Caution is advised for listeners under thirteen gene. Today we're covering the murder of famed gorilla researcher Dian Fossey. Let's go back to Rwanda's Baru. Mga Mountains undescended twenty-seventh nineteen eighty-five around six thirty. AM The sun had barely risen over the camera Sochi research camp when thirty four year old Wayne Gene McGuire was startled awake by men shouting and Soi Healy before McGuire could process what was happening. A frightened camp worker burst I into his cabin and pulled him out of bed. McGuire could see a swarm of activity around one of the cabins. At the edge of the camp it belonged to his fifty-three-year-old Mentor and fellow. Gorilla researcher Dian Fossey. Something was wrong. Very sorry wrong. McGuire sprinted down the one hundred yard path and entered Fossey's dwelling. The tiny cabin had been ransacked as maguire cleared the overturned furniture and scattered boxes. He could see Fossey lying on the ground in her bedroom room. Her head propped up on the bed. McGuire thought she might have suffered a heart attack but when he got closer he saw the true cause of death. Fossey's face had been split open with a machete. Her killer had entered the cabin by cutting a hole in the tin citing. Next to Fossey's bed it was a sign that the murderer had known her. Well enough to be familiar with the cabins layout the gun. Lying next to Fossey's bed indicated that she had tried to fight back but the effort had been too little too late due due to the camps isolated. Location in Rwanda's Ruge Mountains. It took five hours for the police to arrive when they searched the cabin they they found twelve hundred. US dollars in cash along with seventeen hundred dollars worth of traveler's checks clearly this wasn't aerobically. Due to the attacks. Precise nature random violence could be ruled out to someone had wanted. Dian Fossey Dead Ed. Although it may seem strange for someone to want to murder the primatology just fosse had no shortage of enemies for years. She had led anti-poaching patrols through the mountains misty overgrown forests in retaliation the poachers killed many of the guerrillas in the troop fossey observed the most so when Fossey caught one of these hunters. She felt justified. Getting violent. Went with them following the murder. Fellow primatology just Kelly Hardcourt told Vanity Fair fossey would torture the poachers she would whip their testicles with stinging nettles spit on them. Kick them put on masks and curse them stuff sleeping pills down on their throats. She reduced them to quivering quaking packages of fear but the poachers weren't the only people. Oh fossey mistreated. She was extremely abusive towards her own staff as well. According to Kelly Harcourt Fossey had a perfectly colonial oneal attitude toward the Africans on Christmas. She'd give the most extravagant presence to them other times. She'd humiliate them once. I even even saw her spit on one of the workers. She would break into their cabins and accused them of stealing and dock. Their pay unfortunately leave. The murderer hadn't left behind any evidence even in a camp full of skilled trackers. Nobody was able to figure out where the killer color had gone. But maybe that was because the killer hadn't gone anywhere maybe they were still in the camp coming up the police track down some suspects Today true crime is supported by better help online counseling people often portray their happiest self to others. Whether it's is at work or on social media we often make it appear that we have everything figured out but a lot of times. We don't I know that I don't and if you're like me it's it's not always easy to ask for help and find counseling. This is where better help can help you. Better help offers. Licensed counselors who specialize in a variety of issues issues including depression and anxiety as well as trauma anger family relationships and so many others. And if finding a counselor that lives close close to you has been an issue. Better help allows you to connect privately with your counselor through text chat phone and video calls. You can get help at your own pace hace and on your own time and best of all you can get help. At an affordable rate today and true crime listeners will get ten percent off their first month with Discount Code today in true crime. That's better help dot com slash today in true crime. Why not get help? Better help dot com slash today in true crime now back to the story on December Twenty Seventh Nineteen eighty-five famous gorilla researcher. Dian Fossey was found murdered at her camp in Rwanda's Veru mountains. Although the killer had vanished there was no shortage of potential suspects. Fossey was aggressive towards the areas poachers ars and known to be abusive with her own staff as well shortly after the funeral on December thirty first nineteen eighty five the Rwandan ondon police made an arrest. Five of Fossey's trackers were taken into custody and placed in the Ruhengeri prison there were two motivating factors behind the arrests. I the murder weapon which had been found Fossey's bed came from the research cap up second. The police felt the trackers had behaved suspiciously at the funeral. However the logic behind behind both of these points was extremely tenuous? The police were unable to properly take fingerprints from the murder weapon because it was passed back and forth between between so many people between its discovery and it being placed into evidence as for the so-called suspicious behavior at the funeral. It was down down to a cultural misunderstanding. During the event one of Fossey's American colleagues gave one of the trackers a hug. This gesture is extremely extremely uncommon in Rwanda even in sad circumstances like a funeral strangers would only shake hands. Since this American colleague League was known to clash with Foxy the police assumed that she and the trackers had conspired together they believed the trackers had carried out the murder order on the American colleagues behalf. Ultimately the trackers were never charged with any crime although it took several months for them to be released from prison they didn't face any further punishment in mid January area of nineteen eighty six. The police stumbled onto a new lead. Instead of the killer coming from inside the research camp they thought it may have have been a poacher. This belief came from a letter Fossey had written about an encounter with a poacher that past November evidently fosse captured a poacher and discovered magic charms on his person these items were so important to the poacher that Fossey's Guards had to restrain rain him even though the poacher was put in prison Rwandan. Jails didn't have the same security measures as American correctional institutions as long as he had enough money. The poacher could have easily hired some muscle to break into Fossey's cabin and retrieve his charms then when Fosse woke up during the break in the intruder killed her with one of the camps machetes unfortunately proving that this poacher had arranged the attack doc on Fossey was nearly impossible to prove nevertheless the investigations continued and by mid nineteen eighty six. The police lease finally formally charged a suspect but it wasn't a poacher. It was Wayne Maguire. The graduate researcher sure who was one of the first people to find Fosse's body. According to the Rwandan Wander Government Mcguire had killed his mentor in order to steal the manuscript of her upcoming book as evidence. They pointed to hairs clenched clenched. In fossey's hands laboratory tests showed that they belonged to a white person and Maguire was the only Caucasian at the camp at at the time of the murder. Additionally the government claimed McGuire had taken two boxes of papers from Fossey's cabin after the murder her even though Maguire was no longer in the country the Rwandan government went ahead with a trial in absentia. With no defense present McGuire ear was found guilty and sentenced to death by hanging ultimately. This verdict was likely mostly for show. Rwanda didn't have have an extradition agreement with the United States and made no attempt to actually make sure that Maguire was punished for his alleged crime. Furthermore the American authorities never seemed to seriously consider him a suspect as of two thousand nineteen. There have been no new developments in the Dian Fossey murder case but while her murder may never be solved her legacy legacy lives on her foundation now known as the Dian Fossey Gorilla Fund International continues to Promote Mountain Gorilla Conservation Survey Chion while the foundation doesn't use the same aggressive tactics as its founder. It plays an extremely important role in protecting these highly intelligent primates and for that Diane Fossey would surely be grateful. Thanks for listening today and true crime. I'm Vanessa Richardson and for more stories. Like this check out the podcast original unsolved murders true crime stories. Today in true crime is a park. Cast original you can find more episodes of today in true crime and all other podcast originals for free on spotify. Not only to spotify already. Have all of your favorite favorite music but now spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy all of your favorite parkhouse originals like today and true crime for free from your phone desktop shop or smart speaker to stream today in true crime on spotify. Just open the APP and type today in true crime in the search bar at Parkas. Were grateful eight full for you our listeners. You allow us to do what we love. Let us know how we're doing reach out on facebook and Instagram at podcast and twitter at podcast. Our cast network. We'll be back with a brand new episode tomorrow in True Crime. Today in true crime was created. Aided by Max Cutler is a production of cutler media and is part of the podcast network it is produced by Max and Ron Cobbler. Sound design by Karie Murphy with production assistance by Ron Shapiro Carly Madden Freddie Beckley and Joel Stein. This episode of today in true crime was written by Alex. Benetton with writing writing assistance by Maggie Admire. I'm Vanessa Richardson.

Kelly Harcourt Fossey Fossey Diane Fossey Rwanda Wayne Gene McGuire murder Dian Fossey Gorilla Fund Inter Fossey Dian Fossey Wayne Maguire researcher fosse Vanessa Richardson United States spotify Mga Mountains Sochi sleeping pills Kelly Hardcourt
Mixtape Game: Why Not Take a Crazy Chance

The Dave Ryan Show

12:19 min | 11 months ago

Mixtape Game: Why Not Take a Crazy Chance

"Let's get started on the mix tape. Here we go. All righty everybody Jenny here, host the mix tape game. Some people call me the Alex Trebek of host, so let's get the. Yeah. You run into your high school Algebra teacher. Who said You'd never amount to anything if you kept goofing off in class when she asks what you do for a job these days and you get to tell her. You're a partner at a law firm. What Song Plays Inside your head? Davis kick it off with you. This is an actual scenario. Because Mrs. Burton was my high school, Algebra teacher and she used to get on me because I never paid attention I think. I got a see in that class. She I didn't become the the partner in the law firm, but Mrs Burton I would tell her You know what you were wrong and I'm. Her. Old I can still see her glasses on the board around her. And I can still see her looking at me going Okay David. If you're not gonNA pay attention, you can just leave, but she didn't really want me to leave. had been trouble. You what? There's my entry. found. I'm really glad you said that. I'm partner. Law Firm because I don't feel like I'd have the same if it was just what I'm doing currently, so thank you for that like upgrade massively. This song speaks for itself I would just hit this and their face. Poe Look. Oh look. I. Did one Paladins good one. Okay, all right. Listen this lady she's. Maybe she's a nice person. I don't really care. I am here to show her up and not only do I. Hope that she feels horrible about the way that she treated me. I hope that my face is on billboards and sides of buses like. Do you need a claim called Tina. Look at me every day and I hope that this is the song that not just I think of, but she thinks. Good one. I'll be skipping also. To. ex-soviet! Okay I would like to plot. All three of you did a fabulous job picking a song. That really just shows that teacher that you're the issue now. The one that makes you feel like anger towards what she used to do to you and really proves that like your this person now I'm a partner. I gotta give it to Tina. On well. That was the only one I had a chance on I. Think Would you billboard say it's Tina s time. Next Round Jenny you walk into the break room at work on Monday. See Leftover rotisserie chicken sitting on the table from Friday as your heating up your lunch, you turn around and see Linus going in on the leftover chicken. What Song plays in your head you watch. Describe your emotion. His name is linus. Yeah, I can only picture the kid for the peanuts comicstrip so there he is, he's going through four day old rotisserie chicken, just old man names, and then I put line. Gets. So I would get my phone and I would watch him and I would encourage him. It'd be like come on eat that. That's four days old. You're going to get some sort of trick minnows e. FINEST GO? Is. It's GonNa. Be So sick. He's GonNa. Be Five minutes which might be as plan. Maybe I looked at it like linus is looking to get out of work and I respect. My initial thought I know how it would be. I would look at him and initially be disgusted, but then I also have been known to sample some things that sat on a table over a weekend and I'm like you know what screw it wide not. Crazy camp wine is. Hillary. And she beat wall wallet by busted out. Banger the great. Thank you Tina. Oh my gosh so jealous. Win Whatever? Myself, one more person. Hello, it's me. Tina go ahead. So I I can only assume that. This is a dream that I'm having because if it was real life, we all know that I would be. Linus I would be eating that chicken myself so in my dream I'm watching Linus. Devour this chicken. I love so much and I am just very jealous. Debut may play my socks taunts. Talking to the ticket. So uncomfortable correct. Eighteen is out. Now so uncomfortable, but maddening her making out with a chicken breath eight eight accurate song for me. Chicken as dry with kind of a gray hone to spell check and it's just. It's dot falling off the boat. It just is in one big dry, grey hunk. You're disgusting. I have watched Tina devour rotisserie chicken in front of me and that song does I think fits the scene that I saw because she just looked at it as if it was the most beautiful thing, she's ever seen in her life. That's correct so I like that a lot but the problem with it is. It's a little too sexual. Stand by my choice. I don't think I like that. You're jealous of line is, but I think that fallon nail that with why. I'm sorry. Wind. What? Is. Considered by choice. One more time. To Multiple Times safe at this point. Actually gave you the point four him one time I. It last round. This may be my last champ. Only best chance to win. Yeah, right now it's teen and I both have won Dave. Okay all right here we go. You're going to be down the Apple River. With your ten best friends, what Song plays on repeat as lay back and float down the river with a bud light in your hand, okay? I'm slowly going down the river I'm in a Tube I'm relaxing. The sun is glistening off the water almost in slow motion, but it's definitely glistening, and this is a glistening kind of a song. That just says you know what you work all day work all week, and now you just relax. The water glistening. Tobacco that act. To want to withdraw and. I do. and. What are you? Just. Commentary on that I'm sorry. Back On the river it's. Your detracting from my entry wouldn't something disgusting. Again What. David did a good job. Thank you don't ballons. Commentary does not affect you. We will move onto fallon's choice now. So this is the perfect scenario. Because as you know, I am from Southern Indiana and we have done many tubing an hour days and realistically. I never had the boat. I never brought the booze, so I was in someone else's hand, so I know that they would choose the song that we played every single person I would to with would choose a country song, and this is. There is literally no better song than this words perfectly. Really Need We. Know No. Country Songs are allowed on this. Show. Just so Nice Air Jenny, literally, talking about. Inner Tube floating down the river. Oh, I know. What did you google songs about being on an inner tube? Hillbilly I know that it would have been a black A. She could have called me out but Brad Paisley old school all right last entry. Go ahead Tina. Thank you Jenny so. This feel deja-vu. That's okay off the Strip club. Like the memory thing, so this is already been dubbed my Song of summer. The song that I've been listening to repeat. It makes me feel great, and it makes sense because you said I'm holding a beer which I'll be holding in my right hand so I have molest hand free. Comedy show today. All this summer, vibes. I'm pretty confident about one and w column on this one. Fingers. Did you hear my song. Listens. Listens like. Oil On that. Everybody wants to get I. DO applaud you. Guys did a good job this round. There's just something that you have to know about me personally. It's that I've done some deep research to down rivers. I've held a bud light in my hand, a phone and the other one without trying to drop it in the water. And any time you floating down a river, especially the apple. You're listening to country music and Fallon saw was. Young! We. Win. Even I would be listening to country music tubing. Honestly thought I thought I had an ace in the hole on that one so confident. Dave I'll give you half a point, so you don't go out with a goose egg. That's. The sad that you are taking that so sad. Basically bring up I should have won this whole game. That saw not win. Usually, you're really good at this game. I think this might have been your worst round of all time my personal. DC. Would I love playing? Not Hilary Duff. You have a full audience of women who love H staff. She's in Rome invest. Like Hillary Dot because she snub my daughter, my daughter brought her Lizzie McGuire doll to her concert stage an answer to sign it, and I can still picture where her wrinkling up her nose. I can't cy I. DON'T WANNA sign that okay? Alison went home at nine years old through her Hillary Duff Lizzie McGuire doll in the closet and never touch it again. Everyone has a bad day. She Paulo were arguing. Probably. Right.

Tina s Linus partner fallon Jenny David Alex Trebek Dave Mrs. Burton Hillary Duff Lizzie McGuire Hilary Duff Davis Mrs Burton Apple River Hillary Dot Hillary Indiana Brad Paisley DC
Former Senator Al D'Amato 9-29-19

CATS Roundtable

10:03 min | 1 year ago

Former Senator Al D'Amato 9-29-19

"Confused what the heck is going on one of the smartest guys I know former US senator and his ears close to the ground Good Morning America this is the cats roundtable John Cats Matiz here Sunday morning are you confused about Washington well a lot of and and I think he distinguished himself notwithstanding that there were some harsh political attacks aimed at him is this himself Mr McGuire followed the law as as the attorneys and the Justice Department advised him and here it is nothing but disgraceful let me tell you number one the president should have known at the report by the Inspector General he he respected his report and that he did a great job and and that they were I don't notwithstanding Mr McGuire who did a great job that's the new acting person a person of it's going to find a good chance of heavy political involvement in these charges being brought about the way a good situation no it's terrible terrible for the nation to to look like two crazies fighting each other crazy you shouldn't do this fact that matter is if it's a concern you don't bring it up that way with all kinds of ears listening and you know they're they're listening do I think that it is a matter that you bring about impeachment no on our democracy but remember this Winston Churchill said himself said government you know democracy it's better than to get involved as it relates to asking a foreign leader to take up an great credibility of a distinguished and honorable record of service to this nation has he credited him himself talk where with another world leader. What's going on well it's disgraceful it's embarrassing to the country and it takes of the left going against the president who has acted I think and in a manner which should he should never have undertaken very well but I think we can look at the background of the leaker it's an and by the way provide for these kinds of things to take place and I am distressed that instead portion by the Democrats who are looking for cheap theatrics and by the way I don't think that the the the charges it'll be sustained I think when you look at the background of the person who brought this about he may have been as he or she may in a CIA operative but you Is it impeachable I don't you can bring impeachment proceedings but I don't see him being impeach it is not it's a blot Ashton Gatien in the manner in which he did the fact of the matter is you don't tell them I'm going to have an outside counsel fact that matters working people are confused what the heck is going on in Washington with the CIA guy turning into president of the United States was he's having legit The statutes and see that the whistle blow it does not have any harm brought to them at Saturday made that very clear he made it very clear the two to tango and to to of do crazy things together and that's what you see at taking place for this event this will seal it and I think Elizabeth Warren is going to be the person to beat and I think if that's the case a while he did not handle this in any way that the president should it certainly is now being bro blown out of The Democrats are in for a rude shocking situation where trump will carry by a bigger plurality as on that Mike Lemberg is looking at it again there's rumors around that Andrew Cuomo will jump media already says it's a safe former or to see ya operative who McGuire said he's going to protect pursuant to the oh I think that when you look at the opponent or out there now none of them hold a candle to Mike Bloomberg and that this would have come out in any event the president didn't have to do this Senator Biden in front of the Foreign Merlin the plane and six hours and unless you get rid of this Justice Department deputy are the head of this particular unit is investigating this company that his son had just gone on the Board of directors unless you get rid of this this investigator change Endorsing him I'd be happy if it means endorsing his opponent and that would help I would do that he has been a great citizen of this country who has worked to give back to the nation piece I think he could win the Democratic nomination and he would be a very very difficult person to beat about having this law enforcement person and and the Ukrainian Justice Department removed it was when I saw it I said this is ridiculous here he is bragging and saying I'm going to be on the isn't the the the best form of government but it beats all others have he he said it we're not perfect in a democracy does it just should not have taken place I believe that he hurt himself and and and I think that former vice that which he has been so successful in terms of of contributions supporting causes and funds and mark had a great record as mayor he's above partisan politics he has done more good things for this nation he's a former US Senator Alfonse D'Amato good morning senator how are you this morning very good John Good to be with you Senator Nations committee in New York a very prestigious group the Foreign Relations Council that is actually bread attorney over there you're not gonna get the the loan the billion dollar loan and then he brags yeah before six hours up they fired him giving of his money has been so generous and don't ask them an underestimate he was the guy way ahead of this that look like that that's not all over by these elections I think that it was all were formed fight for the environment he's a guy that stopped the cigarette smoking he's the guy that wasn't afraid to take on the question of dealing with our couldn't Joe Biden when all of the facts do come out is not going to look very creditable I think he has been hard it relates to the presidential election and then he did last twenty twenty this rumors around great citizen I think he was a terrific man and if he ran for president what I support him absolutely in good causes and doesn't he doesn't Brag about a put out there but he

Mr McGuire president senator US Justice Department John Cats Matiz Washington Winston Churchill America six hours billion dollar
Nov 20, 2019

Sword and Scale Daily

12:30 min | 1 year ago

Nov 20, 2019

"Hello and welcome to sort and scale daily. I'm your host Ryan Williams. It's Wednesday November twentieth. And this this is your daily true crime report coming up on sort and scale daily. A revere Massachusetts man was found guilty of the brutal murder of his wife. Life a dedicated elementary schoolteacher. A third New York City taxi driver is sentenced in a kidnapping and extortion plot. That preyed on new arrivals at New York. The city's Port Authority bus terminal finally a West Virginia. Man Who is in an incestuous relationship with his daughter was charged with first degree murder of his his daughter's boyfriend all this more coming up on sword and scaled day. Lean it on Monday. November eighteenth a Massachusetts jury found Andrew McCormack guilty of of the murder of his wife. Vanessa who was discovered dead in the bedroom of their revere home on September. Twenty third. Two Thousand Seventeen Vanessa and Andrew married in two thousand doesn't fifteen and had a daughter in two thousand sixteen. Vanessa was a second grade teacher at connery elementary school in the city of Len. She was extremely popular. Her neighbors and friends alike believed. The couple was happy on the afternoon of September. Twenty Third Andrew McCormack call nine one one to report the discovered. His wife wife dead. Vanessa was found in the bedroom lying face down with massive trauma to her head and a white plastic bag wrapped around her head. She was lying in a large pool of blood but other than that. The House was clean and the room smelled strongly of bleach. Vanessa's nose had been broken and several of her teeth were missing. She'd been stabbed five times in the back and neck and the front of her neck was slashed. She was strangled so forcefully that the cartilage at the top of her trachea was broken. There were no signs of forced entry and a knife was missing from a block in the kitchen per. NBC News. Ten Boston Police Suspicion Shing quickly turned Andrew. Initially this was because of inconsistencies in his story for example he told investigators that he took the bag off his wife's head to check if she was breathing however when first responders arrived they found the bags still over Vanessa's head and a firefighter. had been the one to remove it. Andrew Andrew Story about that particular morning was that he left the house early with their daughter and took her for a walk on the beach. So that Vanessa had time to go work out again. He was caught telling two stories. He told police that when he left. Vanessa was in the kitchen in her workout clothes drinking coffee earlier that day when he spoke with his mother-in-law Karen Suji he said Vanessa left the house before he did either way. She never arrived at the gym. The couple's phone records supported initial suspicions. And although the couple may have appeared harmonious their relationship was in fact very strained. The reason for the tension was Andrew's addiction to cocaine. A dealer told police Andrew spending between four hundred and five hundred dollars a month on cocaine in two thousand seventeen. Andrew Stole six thousand dollars. I from one of Vanessa's bank accounts and blamed the missing money on hackers. The same year. Her engagement and wedding rings went missing. Vanessa knew about Andrew's this drug habit and told him he needed to quote shape up in August. Two thousand seventeen. She sent Andrew the following message. I hate you so much. You've ruined our daughter's life because she won't have her parents together. I'll talk to an age tomorrow. About listing the house and look into a divorce lawyer Andrew replied. Ah You're crazy I'm not signing anything to sell the house or get divorced. In September. Two Thousand Eighteen Andrew was arrested and charged with the murder. He pled not guilty and has continued to maintain his innocence. His trial began on October. Twenty second of two thousand nineteen the prosecution alleged. The Andrew whom cellphone records place at a parking lot of a liquor store at eight thirty on the morning of the murderer returned home in a fight between him and his wife ensued. He brutally murdered Vanessa beating her stabbing her and strangling her. They believe some of the stab wounds may have been inflicted post mortem revealing a type of white hot rage. They allege Andrew proceeded to clean the crime scene with bleach and poured bleach on Vanessa's body evident by chemical burns. Left behind. Then he took his daughter out took money out of an ATM to create an Alibi. Use the money to buy cocaine and drove to a friend's house while he he was at his friend's house. He spoke with mother-in-law twice and pretended to share in her concerned. They could not get in touch with Vanessa. Cellphone records show that Vanessa's phone was an Andrew's possession. During the hours others as well as Andrew himself tried to reach her in vain at three thirty P M per the Prosecution Andrew drove back back home to quote discover the body. The defense maintained that while Andrew does have a drug problem and was not a good husband. He did not kill Vanessa they. They pointed to the lack of physical evidence tying Andrew to the crime and the fact that Andrew did not have any scratches or injuries to his body as one would sustain in a struggle the the attorney also stated that the efforts to clean the crime scene proved the culprit must have been a stranger since Andrew could have explained away any DNA in the house because he lived there. The jury began deliberations on November six. And last week told the judge they were deadlocked before going back to deliberate for five more days. They finally found Andrew McCormick guilty on first degree murder this Monday. The sentencing is scheduled for December second where he faces an automatic life sentence without parole. Our next story brings us to Connecticut. NBC New York reports that on Monday a bridgeport Connecticut federal jury sentenced fifty six year old Carlos Hernandez and as to eight years in prison for his part in a kidnapping and extortion plot targeting newly arrived asylum seekers Hernandez is the third man to be sentenced for his role in the plot Hernandez and his accomplices. Who are all taxi? Drivers were convicted last year. They're criminal enterprise was cruel but not very sophisticated they targeted New York City's main bus terminal grand central station. There they would wait for passengers disembarking from buses coming from the US Mexico border asylum seekers who had just arrived in. The states are frequently put on buses. So they can join family members already in the United States. They are often than very noticeable since they wear electronic ankle bracelets and carry bright yellow envelopes. Reading I do not speak English. Please help me find my bus. The convicted conspirators Weirdo. Who speak Spanish would tell asylum-seekers their next bus had been cancelled and the drivers were the only option for alternative transportation on occasion? One one of the men involved would pretend to be with immigration and order them into vehicles they would also ask the victims to give them the phone number for a relative in the United States. They would then tell the victims. The price for the trip was two thousand dollars and would drive them around for hours negotiating a ransom with their family members before letting them go free. The most ransoms paid were around one thousand dollars. The victims were of all sexes and ages including Children Hernandez was facing up to life in prison. After the break a West Virginia father and his daughter married three weeks after allegedly murdering her boyfriend Nick now for our final story. The Blue Bell Daily Telegraph reported new developments in the murder. Investigation of thirty one year old. John Thomas McGuire McGuire a father of six from autonomy. Minnesota was last heard from on Valentine's Day this year when he was on his way to visit his mother. In Alabama he was reported missing in June in September. Police arrested fifty five year old. Larry McClure of Sky Gusty West Virginia for for failing to register as a sex offender. While in custody the clerk told authorities he knew where Maguire's body was buried McGuire was romantically involved. And with Larry McClure's daughter thirty one year old Amanda maclear who also had ties to Minnesota in two thousand eighteen. Amanda McClure posted on facebook. That she and Maguire were engaged. Following Larry McClure's directions. Police discovered Maguire's body buried in a side yard of the maclear family residence in October. Tober police charged Larry McClure and his daughters Amanda maclear Annemarie Chowdhary with murdering John McGuire and hiding his body in a shallow grave on their property. Any they alleged a murder happened on February fourteenth per the criminal complaint against them attained by the Bluebell. Telegraph Larry Clearer. We're in an incestuous relationship and on March eleventh not four weeks after the murder. They drove to Virginia. And we're married by Methodist Minister. A marriage between between a father and daughter is illegal in the state of Virginia a misdemeanor punishable by six months in jail on November fourth Larry McClure sent police a handwritten letter containing containing a detailed confession to the murder. McClure described how McGuire was hit over the head with a wine bottle tied up and injected with two vials of methamphetamine. He was then strangled and his body buried in one location at the McClure's home before being moved to the side yard where it was later discovered. According to Larry McClure's letter Amanda McClure. His daughter and wife was the instigator of the murder. He says he doesn't know her motivation. But she did collect McGuire social security checks after his death breath he ends the letter by saying he would plead guilty or no contest which would save taxpayers. The cost of a trial in preliminary hearing for Annemarie showery which took place on November fifth. The prosecutors appeared to site details from the confession letter. The investigation continues and more charges may be brought against the defendants before we say goodbye. We have an update regarding the murders of Wisconsin brothers. Nick and Justin Demo. The brothers were reported missing in July after visiting visiting Garland Nelson's Missouri Cattle Ranch. They were there to collect two hundred and fifty thousand dollar debt from Garland Nelson Nelson was arrested in July for tampering with the SUV. The brothers drove to his farm and has since been charged with two counts of first degree murder in their debts. The body of Nick Dima was discovered ten days after after they were reported missing now police say they have recovered. The remains of Justin de more in Nebraska on Friday November fifteenth a rancher from Hershey Nebraska called police after finding what he thought were human remains in a trailer he recently bought in Missouri when he dumped the dirt out of a large plastic tub that was in the trailer he saw bones. Some personal items law enforcement confirmed the remains were human and were later identified as belonging to Justin Demo. Well that's it for today. We'll see tomorrow and until then stay safe Soared and scale. Daily is an incongruity media production. Your host was Ryan Williams Research and writing by Hagar Barak Executive Producer. Mike Day if you like the show subscribe and leave us a review. If you'd like to write us with feedback or suggestions use. He's the email address daily at sword and scale DOT com.

Andrew Andrew Story Vanessa murder Larry McClure Andrew McCormack first degree murder John Thomas McGuire McGuire New York City Andrew McCormick Amanda McClure West Virginia Ryan Williams Children Hernandez cocaine Nick Dima Massachusetts Maguire Boston Police kidnapping
The Suitcase Murder

True Crime Brewery

1:38:50 hr | 1 year ago

The Suitcase Murder

"The university professor Doctor Dylan Reinhardt wrote with the book on the psychology of murder. Now James Patterson has written the book on Doctor Reinhard. The result is killer instinct. One of the most gripping murder throws is to come along in years when Reinhardt and his partner Elizabeth Needham hit the streets of New York City the terrorist starts and it never stops. You will not be able you put down James Patterson's killer instinct true crime brewery contains disturbing content related to real life crimes medical information the opinion based on facts of crime and should not be interpreted as medical advice or treatment listener. Discretion is advised welcome to hurry. I'm Jill and I'm Dick the bill and Melanie McGuire were an attractive couple in their thirties. They had two young sons to successful careers and they just disclosed and a five hundred thousand dollar home when bill disappeared. Melanie told their friends that they had fought on the night when they closed on their new home bill bill had physically attacked her and walked out telling her he was done with her buildings seem like the type of guy who would hit his wife and lead his children behind but Melanie insisted that he had hit her and walked out on his family. She even went to court and took out a restraining order against bill as the days passed did no one heard from bill. Melanie appeared to be moving on with her life without him but bills family and friends were worried bill had been a gambler may get pissed off the wrong people then a bizarre story got everyone's attention. I A Kenneth Cole suitcase was found in Virginia Beach and it contained aimed a pair of bloodless male human legs that had been severed at the knees one week later Virginia Beach Police recovered a second suitcase that was part of the same in Kenneth Cole set it held a five pound weight black trash bags and more human remains this time it was a man's head in torso but here this man was and when he had been killed were still unknown then the third last suitcase was recovered within two weeks it contains the man's hips and thighs. Virginia Beach Police launched an extensive investigation to identify the victim and identified him as Bill McGuire join us at the quiet in today for a very haunting case that became known as the suitcase murder well respected fertility nurse Melanie he McGuire was accused of her husband's murder and dismemberment and she faced life in prison. Although her attorney would argue her innocence a complex unraveling reveling of the facts would reveal a twisted murder plot which grew from infidelity greed and hate New Jersey case means new New Jersey near yeah figured I'm assuming she killed him in New Jersey. That's the belief yes. She didn't dump his body parts in New Jersey. I don't think now aw but the killing was done so I picked a beer called head high which is brewed by Kane Brewing Company in Ocean New Jersey Far Southern Jersey assist the shore head high is an American. It A in at six point six percent alcohol by volume pretty nice beer hazy orange colour. You're a whitehead some pretty lace aroma of citrus and pine. We have a citrus taste upfront grapefruit and tangerine primarily then some pine nine overlaps and Caramel Mo- nicely hop beer good bitterness the nice beer more vo west coast. IPA TRY IT. That sounds Cilicia. I love that kind of beer. This is your Beer Jill. Yes okay. Let's open that up right away. All right lead the way why down to the quiet end in you can begin our story. Bill McGuire was born in nineteen sixty four in river edge. New Jersey the two older sisters his father worked as a pressman for the New York. Times and his mother stayed home with kids. A billy was the baby of the family family. He got a lot of attention. Here's a cute but very rambunctious kid now when he was four years old his parents divorced bill's mother had to take a job to support the children so she worked the night shift wild bill's oldest sister. Cindy babysat her siblings the Mon- Work Six nights a week so Sunday began to feel like she was a second mother to Bill Leeann. I think bill really looked at her that way even as an adult or you're she had a very maternal influence on his life and when bill was twelve his sister. Cindy moved out and married a guy named bill. Gosh he was an older man who was a pharmacist first and then bills other sister. Nancy moved out as well. Their parents had divorced and remarried a few times so it was very unstable. Environment Sir remarried controller yes back and forth while and Nancy would later accused their father of sexually abusing her too so there's a lot going on in the home sounds work so bill went to Catholic school and he was a decent B. Student. He was quite outgoing and a lot of friends when he was just fifteen ran ran away from home and went to live with Cindy and her husband and he did live with them for a while but eventually left after not following all of her household rules because Cindy was strict then after that he went to his sister Nancy but she didn't have room for him so for awhile bill lived with his high school coach and then he lived with the family of one of his best friends so this is kind of a hard scrabble life he had in his teens assurances. Just been a Roman around yeah. Yeah doesn't have any stability really not much now and we're not really sure what was going on in the home that he felt like he had to run away but it was probably tumultuous between the parents. I mean just the fact that they were together the not together then together the not together. I mean that's that's in stable ripple enough her unstable enough by itself. Yes absolutely so bill was living with his friend. Lenny and his parents and Lenny's twelve year old sister Marcie Darcy got a really big crush on bill so after graduating in nineteen eighty two bill joined the navy thought it would give him some direction in life leaving both his high school girlfriend behind and young Marcy. He broke two hearts when he left the navy bill made friends with a guy named Joe Rice Ace. He was another recruit who was three years older at first. Joe Thought that bill was kind of obnoxious because he was always showing off and telling jokes but then the two men eventually became close friends and bill was very well dressed and bought himself a Camaro which he shouldn't have been able to afford he would admit to Joe that he was opening up checking accounts in fake names and writing bad checks in order to finance the lifestyle that he wanted to live Marino. I got certain needs in my life. I'm just gonNA write checks. I think that's the way he looked at it and remember this is a guy who didn't have much guidance right and he he was really taken with having things that he had had growing up so not to make excuses because it really wasn't a good thing to do of course of course yeah but now that's what he did so in nineteen eighty five. I guess he's been in the service for about three years at this point bill's girlfriend from back home. Lisa flew down in Norfolk to Sam on a weekend. Leave a few months later bill visit Lisa in Vernon New Jersey but their relationship came to an end over well he was in New Jersey Bill. Marcy asked her out on a date and then he and Marcie gradually became a couple and kept in touch with pitcher yes so after Joe Rice married his girlfriend he told bill about how much more money would be making his naval marriage benefits his income nearly doubled after near his girlfriend and then it wasn't too long after that when bill decided to ask Marcie Mary him so a lot of people thought bill just did that to make more money. Let's the impression absolutely his buddies. Tahoe are almost doubled my income so bill's Franken. That's brewing right. We'll marcy was younger though she just graduated from high school but she was very very taken with bill and she accepted did his proposal and she moved down to Virginia to live with bill and to go to College Marsin Bill secretly married in a civil ceremony and then they moved into into a one bedroom apartment together nineteen ninety bill left the navy after earning his associate's degree from tidewater Community College Bill Dylan Marcy Move to Edison New Jersey and he started attending rutgers university where he was going to study pharmacology bill and Marcy moved into an apartment and both took jobs in local restaurants to pay the bills but bill is unhappy then he wanted to split up nineteen ninety two he left. Marcy surprised her. I guess pretty much broker heart 'cause the next two years. She tried to win him back but bill never looked back at Marcy. Who's WHO's dating new women again almost right away after the break-up yeah he had already really checked out of the marriage and then in the summer of nineteen ninety four for a friend of bills introduced him to Melanie slate. The two were attracted to each other and they seem to have a lot in common. They seem to really make a good match. Watch so a little bit about Melanie. Melanie Lynn slate was born in nineteen seventy two in Ridgewood New Jersey. Her father left her mother. When Melanie Melanie was still a baby and then he died a few years later from cancer. Melanie's mother Linda moved back into her appearance on with her daughter and Melanie's Janis Aunts and grandmother helped to raise her her mother. Linda can you to her secretarial job in Manhattan and that's where she began having an affair with her boss Michael Caporetto and that would last for years and Years Melanie grew up beside Michael Cap narrows son Michael Junior and and when Captain Aero finally left his wife he and his son moved in with Linda Melanie but it certainly wasn't the ideal childhood. Her doesn't sound black. Does it now so the kids would go along with Lyndon Michael when they went to Atlantic City Michael Junior and Melanie. You were usually left alone in hotel. Rooms are pretty lengthy times while appearance gambled Michael Senior was such a high stakes gambler learn they were often given comte hotel suites in room service for the children. SA- gambling really can be a serious addiction. WHOA course I've never never really known anyone that has it by Sir with sound of surprise well after I read about this I looked into some other issues with that and children and there is a problem in Atlantic City and Las Vegas of people just Kinda dumping their kids and running off to gamble for days at a time were very often read stories about the type of thing apparent has come the gamble and just dump the kids somewhere. You're gives them a few dollars. Say go under around how fine the gamble one. I think forget about their kids. They get so involved in it because there have been instances was reading about where children have been molested or even kidnapped napped. You know little girls using the restroom in a casino by themselves ECORSE. That's not why s- some horrible things have happened because of this so the only thing I can think is it must be a very strong addiction like drugs for people to leave their kids like that sure immune. A lot of these people are normally holly good parents but this is how Michael and Melanie grew up with a lot of that now even though their parents had some money and they were comps suites they were still abandoned on their own so they became very self sufficient these kids. I guess that's the good part about it. Melanie was really an excellent student and issue reached her teens. She was a beautiful girl. She had long wavy brown hair and a petite figure. She became very self confident and was very flirtatious with the boys at school. Some of the other girls disliked her but melanie had an outward kind. Mr Mr Personality too and she often took weaker girls under her weighing in offered advice on advice and support now. She is an attractive woman you you compare it to an actress. who was that well at Harry? I just mentioned that she looked like what's her name. Marielle and Muster Antonio Veterinary Curry something master Antonio Okay so an actress from like the eighties here yeah yes so she's a good looking woman and she had a lot of freedom when she she was a teenager so that could be a bad combination all this free of within attractive teenage girl she last virginity on a trip to Mexico when she was just thirteen eighteen years old because she and Michael Junior were going out to nightclubs and bars they were just on their own on these vacations so she hooked up with with a Lerman lost her virginity at a young age and then Melanie also began to gamble and she became promiscuous. She slept with older teens when young men who buttered gifts and took her out to fancy restaurants. She was almost like an escort in her teens with some of these older guys and she was his proud of it. She bragged about having affairs with two of her married high schoolteachers as well something to brag about. Isn't it on your teenage girl. You don't the better chance right. Melanie often joked that she had such good grades because she was sleeping with teachers but in actuality she worked hard and she took difficult courses all the time working part-time jobs after school and she is involved in high school theatre was a member member the school choir and she has made the honor roll so she didn't. She didn't need to sleep with guys to get grades and then she she's smart enough shirt era zero. I think it was more for attention. I think she really needed that attention right so but melanie was a top student at the same time she lose able to be a party girl and had plenty of boyfriends and she went through a rebellious period this would inevitably lead to conflicts with her stepfather Michael Caparo but by the time she graduated from High School Melanie and her stepfather were good friends. She is in the top five percents senator class and she went on to attend rutgers with a double major in math from psychology. Wow I'm always impressed when someone majors in math. It's just just because of my weakness in math I guess nurse she did have serious boyfriends in college but her stepbrother. Michael would say that she was really too selfish to ever or be really in love with anyone so that's a tough comment to make against your sister. In nineteen ninety four ninety graduated from Rutgers with the Baccalaureate Degree the institute sticks and psychology but then she decided she wanted to be a nurse which seemed kind of out of the blue she found a summer job as a waitress is and moved back in with her mother and stepfather and then she met bill and they quickly fell in love and they were both pretty sharp witted. Maybe a bit sarcastic czar cast and it seemed like each admit their match in nineteen ninety-five Melanie enrolled in the Charles e Gregory School of Nursing in Old Bridge New Jersey and began studying to become a registered nurse as she still lived at home with her mother and stepfather although her relationship with Michael Caparo arose good at that point. He didn't want her to move in with her boyfriend bill. Melanie spent many evenings at bills apartment and she worked as a waitress part time you're so by nineteen ninety six bill and Melanie agreed that they would get married after they both graduated from college they seem to be deeply in love love and devoted to one another but they did fight fairly often in their fights could be verbally abusive to one another win both ways according to Melanie when it was is great. It was really great but when it was bad it was very bad so this is one of those up and down type of relationships. There was a big blow up between the two in March of Nineteen Ninety six bill who was known for having a terrible driving record was driving with a suspended license when he was pulled over by police for speeding. He knew that he would get jail time so he pressured Melanie to tell the police that she had been driving the car. He actually wanted go to court and lie about it for him. So according to court records still got himself arrested then for fabricating false testimony for motor vehicle stop and preparing false testimony with the witness he spent a day in jail and was released on bail but melanie got into trouble for lying to and she had to accept a plea agreement and one year's probation and this left Melanie very angry. This was a wound that settled in deep and it was one all of these things like when they were arguing. She would always bring this up the she'd never forgave him for this. She was very resentful. Well Yeah I mean even if she thought it might be kind of reasonable at the time to try to save him jail time. There's no good that's GonNa come out of that. You'RE GONNA be pissed off for years because Kazue. You know deep down. You shouldn't have done what you did exactly and the policeman had to now even if they swapped seats after he pulled him over there wasn't GonNa work you could. Ital- and she was this tiny woman with long brown hair. Even from the back you're going to be able to tell the difference so yeah but bill dropped out of the the pharmacology program and he began taking management courses. He wanted to be a businessman then. Melanie graduated second in her class from nursing school in her last year of classes. Melanie had become very interested infertility as a specialty as soon as she got her. RN She applied for a position in the infertility division of Saint Barnabas Medical Center in Livingston New Jersey and she was hired. She worked in the aid donor division of infertility ability at first and traveled to infertility conferences and right from the beginning. Melanie was known as an excellent nurse. She had a very easy bedside manner with clients. Put them at ease with their sense of humor which I guess could be a little colored again she could be sarcastic can kind of cutting with remarked so yeah. It'd be a little tough to listen to her. Sometimes yeah 'cause she could be a little cutting but for the most part the clients loved her. She was like a friend that they did then her employers loved her yeah so near the end of nineteen ninety seven bill proposed pose to Melanie but Melanie's parents didn't approve of him. Michael Caparo in particular didn't think bill is good enough for Melanie but he worked hard marvin eventually he dinner Michael's approval well one thing that Michael and bill did have in common was that they both like to gamble in they often and went to Atlantic City so Michael started taking bill with him to the casinos. He tried to teach bill how to get the best cop packages from the casinos us and he had little tricks eventually. Michael Caparo accepted bills's son-in-law to be an balance family began including bill and family dinners. Send get togethers. Melanie was quite close with their family and bill was really attracted to that because he'd grown up in such an unstable family environment. He really liked the idea of having a close relationship with his future father in law so he worked at getting his approval and then to please Melanie's family bill agreed to Catholic winning as the wedding planner progress. Melanie secretly went off birth control and tried to get pregnant. She even began taking for tillery medication. Even though there was no medical reason for her to believe she needed it. Yellen bill found out about that he really believed that her working around these these women with infertility issues had made her worry about her own fertility issued kind of become obsessed with it and he didn't really want her to become pregnant so early. I why she wait wasn't hold. Let's get married. I start working on their the marriage and then think about a family yeah while she he was putting the cart before the horse as they say so now the other thing. Is I mean she's. She's a fertility nurse. She knows effects and side effects of some of these medications why she taken that. She figure the possible. Good effects would outweigh any side effect. I I don't know she seemed to think that they were harmless. I don't know a lot about that specialty but she'd offered them to some of her friends to trying to have babies. She'd say oh I can give you some drugs from my office so it's just kind of the way she operated. I guess it's just crowd wise now. He's he's self medicating like like that but during engagement and into her marriage melanie was having affairs to with the married obstetricians at Saint Barnabus. The doctors and nurses were closely together and they traveled to conferences so it was actually quite common among that group for affairs to happen and of of course being as attractive and smart she was Melanie was quite popular with the doctors in February of Nineteen Ninety nine. Melanie told bill she's pregnant. Now this resulted in a big argument 'cause Bill Leonard Her to wait until after their wedding though is going to happen that Spring and I she did miscarry that pregnancy eh but soon after that she now she's pregnant again. This is in April of ninety nine or getting closer to the wedding right right so in mant ninety nine. Melania bill their own apartment together. Melanie was making pretty decent money and she enthusiastically started decorating the apartment with Nice Nice. Things bill was still in school and working as a waiter in an expensive restaurant so he earned decent money but there was still some tension between bill and Melanie honey stepfather. Even though bill wasn't school and he was working he was just a bit of a scammer. It's like he could never get out of that. It was just who he was. He was a gambler and he talked all the time about opening his own restaurant or another business in malady seemed like the more sensible one and she was doing. I'm great at her job very popular at her job then just three days before their wedding in. June bill filed for bankruptcy. I I said he did this to take advantage of changes. Were going to happen with bankruptcy laws and he was looking to get a clean slate for lower interest rates in the near future sure and then Melanie also declared bankruptcy a short time after their wedding so this was part of the scamming bill yes so it appear her yeah and Melanie went along with that. Here's just I don't know so on the wedding day. Melanie spirits had a wedding meal at their your home but things became really uncomfortable when Michael Cap narrow joked with bill that he better take good care of his daughter or else and bill who'd had a few you too many drinks. I guess made a remark about whoa where were you. We Melanie was in high school and having sex with her schoolteacher so even though they were trying to we get along. Michael and bill were far from being in harmony at the time of the wedding. Fathers is the bride really hardly ever like their son-in-law's right. Oh now I think sometimes they do but it's pretty common to make a joke like that or comment like that but bill seemed to really take it to heart and got a little bit nasty certainly the remark about yeah. Where were you when she's back in her high. School's teachers art as kind of aggressive. Yes especially at a pre wedding dinner with all the family there. You're right yeah. It was a bit of a blow up so even though they were trying to be friends and they got on some gambling trips together. There was some tension. I don't think that Michael Ever totally approved a bill while they just sound to opposite you know Michael's more grounded. You know a worker type guy in bills his dreamer scammer bullshit. Oh yeah yeah total opposites kind of so Melanie Melanie Way to her office early in the morning of her wedding and took a Sonogram picture of her fetus that she took the picture with her and she was walking around showing it off at the reception option so some people thought that was kind of weird especially since this was supposed to be like a traditional Catholic wedding but melanie really wanted to have a baby she they seemed unfazed by it and just really proud about it. She was only nine weeks pregnant and she was tiny so you couldn't tell by looking at her and she just looked great. She had this nice white dress her fair skin her dark hair she looked kind of like snow white ruined than they had this elegant expensive reception as an open bar and the striking views of the Hudson River and the Manhattan skyline and the meal is steak and lobster so the they went all out Melania and bills I dance was to from this moment on by Shania Anaya Twain and melons with Michael Cup Herrero to daddy's little girl now. I don't know if it's my age just been around too long but the daddy's little girl dance kind kind of a little much for me to stomach. Is that a terrible thing to say well. This is June of ninety nine so it's twenty twenty years ago. Yeah that's true but I think people still do. It and I don't want to insult anyone who has just not my favorite thing so don't do remorse people. Rachel says I I say so. This reception lasted late into the night and the couple was up at six. Am To make their flight for their honeymoon in the Bahamas and they took their friends joe and sue rice along with them met them there anyway and had a pretty good time but they were kind of upset with melanie forgetting pregnant beforehand because they plan this big party trip and of course she could drink. Mertz Road Care Party properly exactly so in February of two thousand Melanie gave birth to a son and they named him Jack Bill was thrilled to be a dad and he called all of their family and friends friends to spread the news soon after Jack was born bill found them a two bedroom apartment to move into because remember they were in a one bedroom and then after to her maternity leave Melanie return to her job as a fertility nurse then that summer Dr Bradley Miller joined the fertility practice a he was put in charge of the new jazz station carrier or surrogate program so that's where a woman carries a fetus for someone someone unable to conceive her unable carry pregnancy Dr Richard Scott One of the people working at the clinic had known Dr Miller since the nineteen eighties eighties and he had highly recommended Miller for the position so Miller went to medical school in Detroit and it served in the US Navy he had and moved to the Bethesda Naval Hospital after it's for his residency when he was hired on to the fertility clinic he was allowed to handpick his team and he chose Melanie McGuire as nurse a surrogacy is by far the most expensive infertility treatment and was seen as a very important part of the practice while sure to cash cow. New Jersey is one of the few states to allow surrogacy at the time so prospective parents had take a money travel in for women meanings while sure they have to do that. They have to pay all the expenses of the MOM. Who's going to carry the baby. There's just a lot involved. I mean you can't be scrubbing. You have to have some money. Put Away to do that. Overlaps Moore because it's usually doesn't take the first time either super super lucrative business which made the physicians working with Melanie very wealthy as millions of dollars came into the program. Dr Miller was invited to be Info Partner Melanie. I met Dr Bradley Miller in Nineteen Ninety eight at a conference in California and she made a good impression. Let's just say not only was she attractive but she was witty and personable and they'd got along really well. Melons position was a critical part of the surrogate programs success assess so he really relied on her as well. She was the primary contact for third party. Egg donors paid surrogates and the infertile couples so her position held a lot of responsibility and she had to be super organized which she was she was good at that. The surrogate program really brought in a lot out of wealthy clients from New York because the New York laws were less permissive patients had to be affluent in order to afford surrogacy. Many of the patients were older and then they couldn't use their own eggs so this increased the cost even more for them certainly did. This isn't something that insurance pays for this. This is all cash so now that they had a child bill decided to quit his job as a waiter and two thousand he finally finally did graduate with a bachelor's degree in management and it took a good paying job as a programmer analyst at the New Jersey Institute of Technology so his job was to move around the different departments to do critical computer installations and troubleshoot any problems. He was given a phone and is expected it to be available around the clock. I seem to be very knowledgeable seemed to be very committed to his job. He was a friendly guy and he seemed to be well liked by his co workers and peers you my impression is that he was one of these really outgoing people persons where to salesmen salesmen yeah totally so melanie became pregnant with their second child in two thousand one in bill wasn't really on aboard at first but then he did grow to like the idea of having another child he took a second job to make more money but this meant that he and Melanie had had very little time together their son. Jack spent most of his time in childcare or staying with his grandparents. Melanie spent more time with Dr Brad Miller than she did with her husband. She unbranded always been flirtatious but then their relationship began to reach a new level of intimacy. They talked about with their marriages. They bought each other birthday gifts. The sheared long lunches and then when Melanie was about thirty eight weeks pregnant with their second child. The relationship nations ship became sexual one day in Miller's office. He began to massage Melanie shoulders and they ended up having oral sex in the office so romantic. You never know that's true so and also this time bill. Melanie were arguing ally. There's there's a lot of stress in the marriage. One of the concerns was that their oldest son Jack was developmentally delayed bill blame that delay on the the fact that he thought he is spending too much time in daycare not enough time at home with apparent and kind of blaming Melanie. It sounds like like she wasn't being an inattentive enough mother or your 'cause. He can fall back and say look more into jobs right. Keep US household going well in her job. She did travel will it. She was very involved in her job. Obviously plus. She was having an affair which took a lot of time. Once that got going certainly did so in two thousand one. The fertility tilleke practice opened their first satellite office in West Orange and actor Brad Miller surrogate program was really successful so he had had become a multimillionaire became partner and Brad and his wife Chara on a mansion in Bridgewater New Jersey in two thousand and two the millers hosted an extravagant Super Bowl party inviting all of the practices employees along with their spouses so of course that included Melanie and bill and and bill was so impressed with the Miller's house. He wanted to have a home of similar quality for his family so melanie was impressed too but she told billionaire. Lina such a luxury is really out of our reach. There will never be able to do this right but they still get a nice home sure then in two thousand us into bill had his driver's license suspended in New Jersey for having numerous infractions after surrendering his license to the State of New Jersey. He and Melanie drove to Pennsylvania these nominees aunt Barbara's Pennsylvania addresses proof of residence and illegally obtained Pennsylvania driver's licenses insys in license plates for their cars. So bill wasn't the only kind of scam or Melanie was in on some of this. She certainly was then that March in two thousand two Melanie delivered another baby boy and they named his second son Jason and soon after Jason's birth breath the family moved into a large three story townhouse in Woodbridge and when Melanie returned to work she and Brad began a passionate affair sure well began well. Yes I suppose saw was just the one oral sex incident and then she went out had the baby and that became you know a full affair after okay. You're much kinder towards them than I would be well. I don't know if it's a matter of kindness. It's just semantics exceed their way. It doesn't matter she was being unfaithful. Obviously your shoes not only did they sneak off together at the office but they went to hotels and they had sex whenever they had meetings away from the office bread but to cellphones with prepaid minutes on them so they could have their own private the conversations without ever worrying about their spouses questioning the phone bills and got to a point where they're calling each other several times a day spending hours on the phone and overtime. Melanie inbred fell in love with each other and they actually started talking about a life together. We'll will bill was working so many hours between his two jobs in a new console business. He was working on that. It was pretty easy for Melanie to carry on with her. Affair did not get found out bread. Miller's wife Charles became pregnant with twin girls shortly after the affair began but then there was a problem with one of the twins they found on amniocentesis. One of the girls was born with down syndrome so of course this was difficult for Brandon his wife and Melanie felony kind of stepped in and she was always there to comfort Brad. Melanie and Brad were spending so much time together that the other staff were becoming suspicious. There were rumors about them having an affair but Melanie never admitted it to her coworkers then after Jason was born. It became especially important to bill all to provide a nice house for his family. He's got two kids now so he set himself a goal to secure a home within eighteen months. He wanted to own a home before he turned forty he he also wanted to move the family to Virginia Beach in Virginia Beach Property was much less expensive than in New Jersey so he felt like he could get more home. I'm for his money so bill started saving for a down payment and his fragile rice ascending him photos of houses on the market that met bill standards and we're in his price range when Bill Melanie visited Joe and his wife Sue and Virginia Beach Suicide excited to show Melanie homelessness but Melanie honey showed absolutely no interest bill tried to persuade her to move to Virginia arguing that will give them more time to spend as a family but melanie this point. She's she's just totally involved in her love affair with Brad so there's no way she wants to leave. New Jersey and the farther away from Brad so bill finally gave in any the agreed to look for House and good old New Jersey we'll Bretton. Melanie agreed that they wanted to be together as a couple at this point so melanie said that she would divorce I bill and then after a few months brad would divorce CHURLA. The two of them would then get married. Buy a house and have a child together by this this time they were talking constantly. They were talking at least twenty times a day. One day Dr Scott called Doctor Miller into his office and confronted him about rumors that he and Melanie were having an affair and Brad denied it of course claiming that he would never do something so unprofessional but the rumors persisted and this was serious. This was beyond trouble with the marriage. He could really get in trouble at work for doing this. Well Yeah and just the idea. You know you're having this affair then. You're positive you discreet and nobody's ever going to know that you having it and everybody knows everybody now this yes. There's no way you keep stuff like that a secret now and they really didn't seem to be trying too hard to keep it a secret. No we thought they might be but they weren't so bills out searching for the ideal home for his family but Melanie in her mind is planning for divorce. She told Brad Miller that she what is going to move into an apartment with their sons but then she told him she was afraid of bills reaction when she told him he had told her. If she ever got a divorce worse that he would take the boys disappear bill told her that if she ever got divorced he would take her boys disappear so that she'd never see their children again Dan. That's a pretty common threat. Your is going to say that's. That's one of the things he he threatened when things are going bed share. I think so so that November Bill Melanie and Michael Caporetto went to an open house for a half million dollar home so melanie and Cap Pereiro stayed downstairs in the owner gave bill tour of the four-bedroom House. The owner also noticed that it was bill showing an interest in the house and Camila. Ni seemed to be very uninterested melanie and really check out of that marriage in the contract with the realtor expired in January of two two thousand four the homes owner decided he would sell that house himself so bill came to the house just days later and left a one thousand dollar deposit then he went out shopping for mortgages because he was going to be mortgages up to his neck with this house are gift so because they really can't afford a half million dollar home now the melanie meanwhile was consulting a friend at work about divorce lawyers so we look like we're going opposite directions right here. I don't think she'd really told bill anything about it since she wasn't going to say anything to him until it was accomplished pretty much yeah seems like it so melanie seemed shocked at how much a divorce could cost her so that's one problem then another the problem. Is it Brad. The love of her life began to balk at his own divorce. He said he wanted to wait for a year or so before leaving his wife that's a long time it is but remember he has two young children practically toddlers at this point and one of them has down. Syndrome Syndrome so there's a lot going on in that house to you know that I mean just having a twin. Pregnancy is tough enough. There's gotta be some other other needs that you have to take care of the kid with downs well yeah. There's just a vast spectrum of how affected did the child could be right right developmentally since oh so even if it's a higher functioning down syndrome they still need extra services. Sousse and particularly and physical therapy because they all almost all have some muscle weakness right so melanie while bills out shopping for mortgages. This was consulting about the divorce lawyers. Your bill is getting more and more excited for this house then Melanie's feeling more and more trapped in this relationship ship exactly plus. She's also got some things going on with Brad absolutely yeah. She's probably thinking yeah. I'm are never going to get out of this marriage and my boyfriend that I wanNA leave the marriage for suddenly says he's not sure he wants to leave his wife. Yeah yeah or at least not news timely fashion as they're going to right. That's GonNa be tough so she's got some stress and she also had had access to doctor. Miller's prescription pads you now. Since part of her job was calling in medications to pharmacies for patients with his permission she copy his signature on prescriptions for drugs on a routine basis but as her stress was rising she began writing herself prescriptions for xanax and other the anti anxiety medications. I can't believe that he would allow her to forge his name his signature on prescriptions y'all do that right. Some doctors have stamps were they might have used to have stanford well now. It's all electronic but we're talking back in early. Two thousand well well even yeah. They might have stamps but that quickly became illegal. I did the you wouldn't you couldn't use a prescription with a stamp signature. You had actually write a signature specially because these were controlled substances these for antibiotics. These were yeah yeah so meanwhile bill had secured the first mortgage and is hard at work getting a second mortgage so he could complete the purchase of the house so that's pretty crazy to me. I I'm naive. I didn't know people could to get two mortgages when you buy a house. I thought a second mortgage was something you got later on when you head some equity if you needed it to do things to your house or pay off some bills here. I didn't know you could get to mortgages before you even have. The house ought to new one on me to see financially risky. WHO DOES I can't believe would've banks would do that. Yeah well wasn't this in the time when the housing crisis was in booming and hadn't crashed yet possibly think it it crashed in two thousand six two thousand eight somewhere around there so they were giving out crazy mortgages at that time but it just seems like this would be really stretching them financially more than they should putting them in a dangerous position financially. Now Bill also had estimates. Let's from moving company also taken two weeks off from work in preparation for the move so this was his dream is greenhouse and he you talked about the house to anyone who he could get to listen to yes. That's really sad for him that his wife was in his excited to say the least aced. Rummy must have noticed that probably yeah but maybe he thought she would. We know once they get the house. Things will get better. There's a lot of things you say to yourself south to try and get through hard times like that but Melanie was really busy planning her exit strategy for marriage in February of a two thousand four. She'd gotten back in touch with an old friend from nursing school. A Guy who had been in love with her in his name was James Finn. She told Finn that her marriage was is in trouble and that she was under a lot of stress. She also told him that. Bill was a big gun. Enthusiasts and Nettie was a heavy drinker who often hallucinated on April eighth two thousand four. Melanie didn't Internet search on your home computer for the tranquilizer dowman she filled out had a prescription for the drug in her late mother-in-law's name giving her old address and then she forged Brad Miller's name on it dropped it off at a walgreens less less than half an hour later. She picked up the prescription so now her plan is in action. She's moving ahead on April eleventh length which was Easter Sunday. Bill and Melanie went to a barbecue at another couple's home in Brooklyn and this couple would say later that Melanie and bill seemed fine and bill was super excited about their new house but back in their town house that evening Melanie went on the home computer again and searched for undetectable technical poisons and Tomac slash suicide the following week. Melanie contacted James Finn again and asked him about purchasing interesting a gun feed gave information on how to get a gun permit in New Jersey but he added that it was easier to get a permit in Pennsylvania because all they required appeared was proof of residence now remember Melanie had Pennsylvania driver's license with her aunt's address on it so that Friday April Sixteen osteen. She went on her computer and did a search on where to purchase guns without a permit then she looked at some. NRA websites and searched for instant instant poisons so she's busy on that computer then on Monday April twenty six two days before the scheduled Angela closing on the house melancholy the place called John's gun and tackle Rome in eastern Pennsylvania and so that afternoon around one thirty thirty pm after she picked up a new prescription for xanax she drove to John's store John's gun tackle room and she has waited waited on by the owner John Russia and he would remember her. She was the first registered nurse to buy a handgun from him and and taking Jim Fenn's advice she bought a thirty eight special for two hundred seventy dollars. She also bought a box of ultra. Max Wide Cutter Bullets islets which are mainly used for target shooting so she filled out the federal and state permit forms using her Pennsylvania drivers license casuarina check to the state police computer and Melanie's driver's license number so she was immediately approved and she paid everything and cash then at eight thirty that evening. Melanie searched the hypnotic sedative choral hydrate on her home computer so coral hydrate is easily soluble title an alcohol and it's a controlled substance that requires a prescription of course and its properties and effects of sometimes led to it being used as a date rape drug and you let you said it's not even legal in the US anymore well. It's been taken off the market because of the side effects is too often within a very narrow therapeutic index as easy to overdose and by overdosing he could unfortunately die share so it's not on the market anymore besides I wasn't that good a drug its effects were variable when it worked at work great but sometimes it didn't work doc sometimes it had a prolonged effect so somebody would stay sedated for a lengthy time just not a good drug okay so after she looked that up she searched for the effects that it had then she visited the walgreens website and searched the store locator to look up the hours. Then investigators believe that Melanie forge to prescription for five hundred milligrams in five hundred miles of coral hydrates syrup and that would be in a sixty st L. bottle so that's like to asses right to answers in the bottle five hundred milligrams for five Mel's music she had in the whole bottle. Oh six grams of chloro- hydrate well as we like to say. That's a shit ton. That's a big dose. He would need if shoes looking for some sedation typical adult dose of B. Five hundred milligrams to a thousand milligrams then she had six times that amount amount right so that could sit him for quite a while up says she may not the prescription to a one time patient of Dr Miller who's his information was available to her through patient records and then of course she forged after Miller's name on it so this was super super reckless to do this. How could she think she was going to get away with this. I don't know because this is not a drug that he would normally prescribe to anyone no now. This is a weird drug ugh really and it's GonNa be in too many ways to thanks to go wrong. Yes bills death was investigated which turned turned out to be obviously that would be something they'd find out easily. Brad Miller finds out he knows a he didn't write it who did right so they're. GonNa turn to her. Pretty quickly goes that relationship. I guess you don't love me as much as you said you did well. That's really the the least of her worries. So in the morning of the closing of the House Melanie drove to Walgreens and she dropped off that coral hydrate prescription she picked up the drug several minutes later and then at two PM Billing Melanie drove to an attorney's office in Princeton New Jersey for the closing before three. PM They were the owners of bills Dream Home. The attorney would later describe them as a very upbeat couple but melanie called Brad Miller in a panic next soon after the closing. She was surprised and upset that the closing had gone through. She said she thought they were just going to go. Talk to the attorney. At least that was her story and bread. Miller was really angry and told her go back there and rip up the papers. Why the hell are you buying a house with him. If you're going to divorce him yeah yeah but you know. He's the one who's dragging his heels on this right yet. What was up with that. He wanted her to get the divorce first and then he was gonna wait awhile yeah yeah so. I don't know about that so but within minutes after crime the Brad Melanie called her sister-in-law Cindy League Gosh and seemed to be an happy mood she told Cindy they are closed on the new house and everything was great and then later that evening she called Brad back and told him not to worry everything. It would be fine. So do you think this is when she finally got to the decision point yeah that evening when things really started moving everything's it's going to be fine. I gotTA figure it out and just craziness really so just before six. PM bill called his friend Joe Rice with the good news about his is closing and according to Joe Bill was really excited and happy in John congratulated him on his accomplishment. He'd gotten a house before he was forty way way to go and then he expected to talk to bill again later in the week but Joe nor anyone else besides his killers are killer would ever talk Tim McGuire Again Final Conversation Yeah K- before we get into the details of what happened to bill and who your responsibility. Let's take a short break for our sponsors. We'll let me tell you about native native creates safe simple and effective products that you can use daily. The products are filled with ingredients found in nature like coconut oil Shea Butter Tapioca Starch as a cancer survivor ever chosen to avoid all products containing aluminum parabens and talk. I like the natural sense especially coconut vanilla and the ease of use it systems sista solid stick that dries quickly but the best thing about native is that it really does work. 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The STUGOTZ started on the theory after bill called his friend Joe Rice and excitedly told him about closing thing on his dream house prosecutors believe that Melanie had set her plan in motion to kill bill so after six o'clock Melanie sent the children children upstairs to play and bill opened a bottle of wine for them to celebrate the closing so in bill wasn't looking Melanie added enough liquid chloro- hydrate hydrated the bills wine to make him fall asleep though this is even more sad when you think that this was one of the happiest days of bills life he had met his goal oh by in a home for his family before he turned forty right and he'd never get to enjoy it that was taken from him. There was so little after after seven pm who is already zonked out when the man who sold them the house call bill sell to congratulate him on the purchase. No unanswered recalled back a minute or two later. Melanie answered the phone this time and he told Melanie that he would be moved out by the weekend and we call bill the next day malet called Brad Miller little after eight o'clock from her private cell phone and they spoke for about fifteen minutes she told Brad the bill was napping and she would talk to him about a divorce in what to do about the house when he woke up and she promised to update bread the following morning so so at five. AM The next morning Brad called Melanie South but she didn't answer over the next couple of hours. Brad called her and left two more messages. He really wanted to know what was going on what had happened with her discussion with bill but I think Melanie was busy creating her alibi because it's I believe that bill was still alive but unconscious when melanie sent an email to build spas from bills email address that morning telling him the ability out sick bill is is likely still unconscious on the SOFA. When Melanie got the young boys ready for preschool she drove Jack Jason to the kinder- castle immature can and drop them off at eight thirty in the morning and she told the daycare director this she was filing for a restraining order against bill because he had hit her the night before for so melanie called the fertility practice at nine. Am to say that she would be out sick for the day then she called Brad Miller and told him that she and Bill L. had fought and bill had walked out. She explained to Brad that Bill had woken up about four A. M. That morning and he'd gotten into an argument over the house. Situation Billett said that if she wasn't happy with him or about buying a new house he was leaving. She can have the house for all he cared. According to Melanie the argument turned turned into a physical altercation after that and bill pushed her up against a wall put a dryer sheet in her mouth and choked her and the dryer sheet is just the weird thing that she said he had a problem with dryer sheets in. If there was a dryer sheet of the kids clothing he would call terrible mother and he said she was too lazy to to use the liquid softener that you had to put in after a certain cycle so I guess that was a thing. I guess it's a weird thing but it's thank Melanie to- Brad. They're younger son. Jason had woken up while they were arguing so she scooped him up and took him into the bathroom and locked the door and she stayed huddled with Jason in the bathroom while she heard bill preparing to leave and after she heard the front door slam she came out of the bathroom and bill was gone most Hutchinson. Yen Melanie asked spread Miller to colonise zanex prescription to the pharmacy for her and he did prescribing zero point two five milligrams for situations -iety related to domestic violence nurse she was already calling in the zero point five milligrams for herself or forging it so I think she was getting a little bit of xanax dependence probably Yeah Sanni Sanni then called Jacks speech therapist and cancelled the child's afternoon appointment and after that she called a friend and told her she was getting a restraining order and a divorce lawyer. Would Melanie was alone in her townhouse prosecutors believe that she had an accomplice who helped her kill and dismember her husband so bill would have remained unconscious on the Living Room Sofa as melanie shot him in the forehead with her new gun she probably used to pillow or blankets to muffle that noise ace the bullet entered bills frontal bone in moved through his brain exiting the back of the skull then she shot him in his lower chest into his abdomen then twice more into his chest just making sure right. She was sure he was dead at this point and she would have begun dismembering him so the the kids were in daycare till around five o'clock so melanie had several hours to dismember bills body and cleanup thoroughly. It's likely that she used the shower on the second floor. This shower had an enclosed stall that would have been the best place to contain bills blood and body tissues this. This is horrific. isn't it. It's just really hard for me to believe anyone could do that now. I know someone had to and a lot of evidence that it was her so melanie and and if she had an accomplice this is the time when they would undress bill leaving his underwear. The used a reciprocating power saw aw with a hospital blanket placed over it to muffle the sound bills severed legs were drained of blood before they saw through his backbone and internal rental organs after his body bled out in the shower they put bills dismembered remains into black plastic trash bags they wrap bills head and upper torso into industrial sized heavy duty trash bags and tape them shut with painter's tape once his body was cut up and blood out and packaged. Melanie cleaned cleaned the bathroom until there's no evidence of blood or body parts or body tissue. Yeah I guess the one thing she did overlook they believe was the bottom overshoes because she would end up leaving traces of blood and flesh onto the carpet of bills car. These tiny traces have been called Human Sawdust to some. I'm for instance investigators but they're different opinions on whether this is actual true evidence or not but we'll get into that so that day. Melanie drove to the courthouse us in the afternoon for a temporary restraining order against bill then she called around looking for a divorce attorney she called Brad Miller many times that day eh and she told him that she wanted to look for an apartment for her and her sons and she planned to get to daycare early to make sure that bill didn't pick up the kids before she did so she picked up. Jason Jacket five thirty and she took them right over to her parents house where they would stay for the next several days. Melanie spent a Thursday night at a hotel and adult eleven o'clock that night. She and her alleged accomplice pless drove bills car her SUV one hundred five miles south to Atlantic city. The plan was to abandon bills car in the Flamingo Motel parking lot so it looked like he had gone gambling before he disappeared yeah but at twelve forty one a m a surveillance camera at the parking lot it caught bills car so Melanie's SUV was also filmed pulling up alongside his car and it stopped just long enough for her to get into her car for bills before leaving again driving driving back north his sister Cindy La- Gosh was getting really worried about bill by that Saturday and late that night melanie and her stepfather Michael Caparo zero drove to Atlantic City Melodies Suv at twelve fifty four am Sunday morning. Melanie's Ez pass registered at a toll booth on the Atlantic Lennox City expressway and several minutes later. Melanie's home phone received an unanswered call from bill cell phone so that all seemed like a setup data yeah. There's no real explanation for what they did right. Not that would make the medicine so no one knows what Melanie and and Michael Kapor Apparat were doing in Atlantic. City prosecutors believed they drove to Bill Maguire's car where Melanie left travel ads for Virginia Beach in Atlantic Annex City on his front seat. They believed this was an attempt to make it look like though is planning to stay away from home. Someone also left the bottle of chloride in the glove compartment. Maybe as trying to make bill look like an attic. Bill cell phone at work computer were left in his trunk to later on this Sunday morning. Joining Melanie picked up her ZANEX prescription and the police believe that she then returned to her townhouse and picked up bills body for the next seven and a half hours. Here location is unknown. It's believed that she drove over three hundred miles and dump bills remains in three Kenneth Cole suitcases into the Chesapeake Bay so unfortunately it was a twelve year old boy who on the first suitcase and saw the two severed human legs in black plastic bags. Thanks give some nightmares when you're twelve right awful well. He was with other people and he thought it was some kind of like treasure. He was excited about it in opened it up in holy shit so he was traumatized. I'm sure the week later police were called it had recovered the second suitcase and this one had a five pound weight the same kind of trash bags and more human remains this was a man's head and upper torso and there were gunshot wounds in the head and the chest the third and final suitcase was found on. May Sixteenth it contained bills hips and thighs Virginia beach each police were trying desperately to identify the victim then just terrific and nothing was heard from Bill Joe Rice and his wife. Sue thought about these awful news stories stories about a man's dismembered corpse being found in three separate matching suitcases so they're thinking about bill than thinking about this story. They're starting to put it together. Are they are now the police released a sketch sue and Joe Comparative to a picture of Bill McGuire. Then Joe called the police. Jason gave them bills name. 'cause they were fairly convinced that that picture was a friend bill. Yeah I mean it was the picture of course it was all bloated and disfigured but he did see some similarity the eyes and nose plus he's missing right then because we add those two together because I would be hard pressed looking at that picture that was drawn and then seeing a picture of bill. There's there's maybe a faint resemblance as pretty tough yeah. I think you had a tougher time with it than I did. I kind of saw the resemblance there but I would think maybe if if you knew him personally lead which they did yeah and then if you add in the fact that he'd been missing for a couple of weeks that's Jackpot right and then police did show them actual photo of the face which must've been horrific thick. They did fairly quickly find out that it was bill who was in the suitcase wjr yeah so of course police wanted to talk to Melanie McGuire about her husband's disappearance. Melanie and Michael Caporetto implied that bill had had a gambling problem in his death was possibly mafia hit but the police did believed that that was the case that seemed pretty farfetched and they considered the the surgeon cuts dead two bills body and but that he was probably killed by somebody with some medical training Melanie West a registered nurse another thing a hospital blanket like the ones used at Melanie's fertility practice had been found inside one of the suitcases. You're now the fact that she's an on our end made. I don't think that that means that much in terms of having knowledge to dismember a body you don't do gross anatomy classes in nursing school to you well. No I mean you don't actually work on the human body. No and I don't know why you'd have to have any medical knowledge to cut a body up like that. Mark Pours Aw Paul Yeah Yeah. You don't have to now you know but maybe it would mean that you'd have more stomach for it if you were a nurse sure. I'll have more of a stomach for blind and things like that. Maybe she was in on some surgeries so maybe it would be shocking to someone like that. That's all I can think. I think I'd go with that. So Melanie was questioned and of course she denied owning a matching luggage set like the one bills body had been found in but she did suggest to detectives Bill May Have Gone to Atlantic City and of course that's where his car was found yeah now the Maguire's town house was searched searched and it was super clean like to clean there were no signs of a struggle and it had been pretty much emptied out by then Melanie and already moved out by this time and she said that she had given all bills clothing away. The police did find some black plastic trash bags just like those that had been found with Bill Maguire's remains means and a day after Melanie's interview. She told one detective that Oh yeah I remember that I did own a set of matching Kenneth Cole Reaction Luggage and she was shown a picture of one of the cases in did identify as hers. I wonder why she changed the story. That's that's never good. It's never a good idea. I know I know but maybe because she just thought that other people would recognize it but she should have been met doesn't matter. Nope I hope so detectives believability and killed in New Jersey and transported to Virginia but of course they really didn't have any evidence but they had pretty good circumstantial evidence after they searched the gun registries they learned that back on April twenty sixth of two thousand and four Melanie had purchased a thirty eight special he had gone at at the small gun shop in eastern Pennsylvania and that was just two days before bill disappeared through her phone records detectives found her old friend James Finn. The infant was a gun collector after speaking with him they learned that in the weeks leading up to build stuff melanie had emailed him and told him that she was worried about about bill becoming unstable and paranoid due to his excessive drinking aunts. She told him she wanted to buy a gun for her own protection and Finn had told her that she could buy a gun more easily Pennsylvania now so detectives wanted to find this gun then was beginning to doubt Melanie so he agreed to call her and be recorded. He ended up calling Melanie more than once now the police would feed him questions to ask her and finally she told Finn that she bought a gun and put it it in a storage unit but she said when she returned to the unit the gun was Gone Missing Gun Story. Someone is supposed to be smart. This is so stupid hasn't yeah. It's really bad so the gun couldn't be found to be tested to see if it was the murder weapon so that was a big disappointment for police detectives detectives turn to the question of motive and they discovered that Melanie was in this long term affair with Dr Bradley Miller in interviews with Brad Miller detectives actives learned quite a bit and Brag began to doubt what Melanie had been telling him about bill's disappearance. Brad told the police that Melanie had admitted something to him that was strange that after her argument with bill on the night of the house closing she driven out to Atlantic city once there she said she had somehow found bill's else car and moved it to the Flamingo Hotel and she claimed to have done this out of anger so he wouldn't be able to find it. She told Brad that a security camera reminded filmed her moving his car but she was tired that night so she took a cab home spending two hundred dollars on that ride she left her car in Atlantic city overnight and took the cab home and then the next day. She took a cab all the way back to Atlantic City to get her car so this is a tough story to believe for many reasons yes first of all it couldn't be that easy to go into Atlantic city. Just randomly find a car. There's so many places it could have been wrote and to go through all that just to move it because she was angry. I'M GONNA move it and play mind games with them. Yeah and I guess someone had her defense. It said that he had done that to her before but still and then you're gonNA leave your car and take this long expensive cab ride tall knowing you're going to have to take another cab back the next day both ways so it's not just one way ride now. Berg. You're back there right and why we saw that time. Why not just you know drive home so anyway? It's just unbelievable. It's not believable at all. No it's not now fuck that story. Sinochem companies had a record of being hired for this truck and Brad. Miller also told detectives that Melanie had told him that she'd been shopping for furniture in Delaware. They're not far from Chesapeake Bay. Just one day before the first suitcase was found so that puts certain another suspicious area. There's no evidence that she bought furniture anything no hers too much contradictory or too many things don't add up your right right and the only reason she admitted to these things is because she was afraid she was caught on tape right so in detective aspirin to confront. Melanie while they recorded ended the call and he agreed so called Melanie and told her he was worried that the police suspected him or her stepfather as accomplices to murdering bill. Oh this didn't shake her. She stood firm with her story now. The evidence might have been circumstantial but it was piling up against Melanie. There is the missing gun that she had purchased in Pennsylvania. The black trash bags her unexplained trips the hospital blanket and the suitcase set Sonja circumstantial but it's pretty damn strong. Isn't it your Sudas. There's a lot against your hear so Jan second two thousand five and over a year after bill's murder and melody was finally arrested. A detective followed her in an unmarked cruiser and waited as she left her home to take her sons to daycare where we melanie parked outside of a coffee shop and went in. She left the boys in the back seat of her car then after buying coffee. She got back into her. SUV drove northend the Garden State Parkway when she got off at the Michigan exit is around nine o'clock. She dropped off five year old Jack at his school and then drove three more blocks to kinder- Castle to drop off Jason then at nine thirty she was arrested outside of kinder- Castle yet waited for her ready drive a little bit away. I think just not to cause an uproar at the school road but this was well planned out in the afternoon. Melanie pleaded not guilty. Due to the murder of bill McGuire. Michael Caporetto picked up the voice that afternoon and arrange to pay the seventy five thousand dollars needed to get Melanie now on her seven hundred fifty thousand dollars bail so as we're thinking about accomplices. I keep thinking Michael Cap era because he seems things to be very helpful to melanie in all of these things in a little too involved now of course they. I considered Bradley Miller. We'll sure right. Somali finally went to trial nearly two years after her arrest and being a privileged person she got to stay out of jail all that time just make a note of that the process she move bill right but if you're a poor person you'd be sitting in jail for two years waiting for your trial would we. We need to change how that works but I digress so the prosecution began their case with Melanie's purchase of the thirty eight caliber gun just days before bill staff. Melania had not told anyone about her gun purchase until after bill was dead plus. She changed her stories. She told some friends that bill wanted the gun and she told others I if she bought it for protection against bill who'd become abusive suggest the story about buying it for bill was because Bill had a felony history for his check writing scans so she bought the gun for him. which we know is illegal but she probably rather get in trouble for that than for the murder? Oh absolutely thank yes no-brainer right a forensic expert testified for the prosecution and showed the jury the significant similarities parities between the trash bags that had been found with Phil's body parts and the trash bags that Melanie had used to give away bills close so he concluded that the bag had been manufactured by the same company in the same location and that just sounds like something you'd see forensic files remit yeah. I was also suspicious that the CSI team thoroughly searched the Maguire's townhouse but they hadn't found any blood or DNA material. The home had been so meticulously particularly cleaned. There is no trace evidence that anyone in the Maguire family had lived there so that's odd I mean some people are super clean and that might explain in it but it's also a bit of a red flag goes beyond being super clean yeah yeah and perhaps more damning was at the CSI team found traces aces bills body in vacuum particles taken from his car and the jury was reminded that Melanie hid admitted to go into bill's car in Atlantic City. The theory was that she had bills body tissue particles on the bottom of her shoes and she had transferred them into the carpet of his car. That's very good forensics research. Don't you think it's one hundred percent legitimate but yes well. If there's a sufficient amount to get DNA from you're there were other arguments from the other side that of course it's his car is going to shed skin cells sure but then there was the chloro- hydrate prescriptions. Dr Brad Miller signature on the prescription had been forged and the medication had been picked up at Walgreens just one mile for Melanie's children's in State Care Center so brad ended up being important witness for the prosecution and of course he testified that he had written that prescription and that Clara hydrate was not a drug he had ever prescribed for his patience. Besides at the chloride hydrate bottle have been recovered from bill's car in the Atlantic city parking lot right what other very important source of circumstantial evidence was found melodies home computer. There were the searches for poison chloro- hydrate the location of the walgreens where the choral hydrate was picked up and how to commit murder then there were multiple searches on guns and gun laws Melanie had also contacted the turnpike authority to try get a charge removed for a toll booth between between Atlantic City in her home on the day bill disappeared once the tollbooth hit was exposed to the investigators. Melanie changed her story about driving out two bills car in order to have a reason for that she had to change it and they believe that she probably put the transponder under a cedar something thinking it would pick up did it will melanie's defense attorney guy named. Joe Tackle Pena claimed that investigators had set their sights on Melanie from the start they focused on evidence that incriminated her and ignored evidence that did not so the prosecution's case was circumstantial and there seemed the plenty of reasonable doubt so Taco Pena claim that it was impossible for Melania of killed and dismembered bill without leaving behind any evidence in their your home. I think it would be tough to dismember someone and not leave one drop of evidence. There had to be some very thorough cleaning going on well. It's you do it in the shower and it's a stall shower right so I think you could get that clean. I guess but what's what's a reciprocating cy anyway. That's electric or gas powered. It's not just a handsaw Reynaud. It would have to be pretty messy it was I mean I'm not saying it's impossible to clean it up of just say that would be quite a cleaning job you'd have to do so is at the body tissue found in bill's car. There really was no way to be certain that the tissue from a dead body so bills tissue could've just been normal shedding of his skin again and you really can't say that that needs he was killed so sure his car yes so the defense can dismiss that although it's already out there the juries heard it then on cross examination of Dr Miller Tackle Pena revealed bread and Melanie. Melanie still sexually involved when his caused her. Rabin recorded more importantly. Perhaps Melanie didn't implicate herself in any of these calls right so let's the significance of him. I'm still having sex with her other than saying. He's kind of a backstabber. The I guess the point that out just to show that maybe he didn't unquestioned her the way they wanted him to. Oh maybe I don't know I mean. This is the defense saying that though why would they care about that. I thought that maybe he he was trying to say that. Brad didn't really think Melanie was guilty or he wouldn't have kept having sex with her while that's possible. The defense is doing things to try to show the. She couldn't have possibly told her husband. I'll sure but I think it would help them to kind of. Give the impression that Brad didn't think she did it either either because they can't just ask his opinion on that. No there can't now so if they're still sexually involved and she doesn't implicate herself. That's as good as saying. I didn't do it and helps then according to tack appear. Melania had not told transit consistent story about why she'd purchased. It's just a gun because bill to buy the gun for him. Bill had a felony record for check fraud so he was not allowed to purchase a gun right. I that she hadn't told that story consistently no that's when you gotta get out front of dressed well anytime you change your story. You're in trouble. A coworker worker of bills testified that talked about wanting to buy a gun a short time before his disappearance though so that kind of helped defense also computer expert testified defied that there was just as much evidence that bill could have made the suspicious online searches as the was that Melanie did it for example a search for undetectable. Oh poisons was made almost immediately after a search for information on gambling and gambling was bills thing that Melanie's although I could say hey that melanie could be looking up gambling his wealth to use in her whole plot she sure could have been and the defense also called the plastics expert in to testify because he believed that the testimony on the trash bags was not based on real science. That's certainly possible yeah and and then Melanie chose not to testify in her own defense so in closing arguments the defense focused on the idea that Melanie didn't have a motive to kill Bill Hill and there's reasonable doubt in this case the prosecutor described Melanie as a manipulative cold blooded killer and revisited all all of the circumstantial evidence against her so the jury took four days they came back with guilty verdicts on first degree murder desecration of human remains perjury and the unlawful possession of a firearm. Yes she was acquitted of the two counts of hindering apprehension as well as tampering with evidence and possession of Zanex without a prescription but those are all minor wouldn't have made much difference at this point. The prosecution firmly believes that Melanie had to have an accomplice though but they've never been able to bring anyone else to trial to me the strongest possibility seems to be her your stepfather Michael Caporetto because he just seemed kind of involved in this yeah although I could also make a case for her doing it on her own on I guess but how does she get him in the shower or you can do that. He was like two hundred pounds. She was like one hundred and ten pounds so she's got to do as the him over the edge edge it what the shower the store dip a lot of the edge or roll him over. I think it's possible that she she killed him and then once he's dead and she's trying to move him around. She says holy cow. I can't do this and then she gets the idea well. If I cut him up then I can handle fence there. Yeah I mean you're right. It's probably possible but I think she'd have a hell of a time. Even the third of his body's going away seventy seventy pounds or so well maybe less once the blood soldiery doubt not to get too graphic but it's a lot of weight for her to carry round. Although are there ways to do it. I guess yeah now. I think she could have done it by herself. Yeah it's certainly easier. She had some help and now I just feel like if someone who helped her. They probably would have gotten caught. Somehow are think so yeah so while the jury was deliberating her trial Melanie recorded an interview with ABC's assise prime time for a special titled. Sex lies in secret lives. She's looking for a lot of sympathy for herself. It was Kinda Gross. I could watch the whole thing the euro as it was almost like a puff piece yeah and there was also rumor at the time that ABC got the exclusive interview because her defense attorney had connections with the ABC network and of course she's tried to appeal her conviction has been affirmed and they decided she has to serve more than sixty three years before she's eligible for parole so she's basically never getting out of prison. In two thousand fourteen. Nonni went to court with a new attorney attorney a public defender to try and get a hearing that could overturn the two thousand seven murder conviction and that was on the grounds that our previous legal representation was inadequate adequate or ineffective and that was denied and it seems like that's always the last ditch effort soy's inadequate yet accomplices ever been charged. Twenty twenty did an episode titled. The suitcase murder forty eight hours did special called the McGuire diaries and there's a book by John Glatt to having to kill nurse. Melanie McGuire enlisted a fair and the gruesome murder of her husband so this is the time time the podcast when I have to be a sales person I hate it and clearly not good at it but it's necessary to keep everyone up to date on what's happening here at the quiet end first of all all of our loyal early tiger members who joined at the two dollars and three dollar level way back have been sent an email with a special link to resubscribe and get your original channel lower subscription price so if you haven't received that email it's probably in your junk folder. I know a lot of people have we've had probably close to half the people had gone in and rejoined. I really appreciate that that's just wonderful and if you can't find that email and you're one of the two dollars three dollars people just send me an email and I will get that link to you next. We recently released the September T. C. B. Premium episode which is about pastor ABC Shurmur in this guy was charged with killing two wives. It's called the Wolfing Shepherd's clothing and Dick came up with that title so good one and it it was definitely an eye opening case to research and we really enjoyed our discussion on it so if you want to join and have access just visit Tigra dot com and click on the gold subscribe button since you subscribe you get access to all thirty something premium episodes and we have options to pay monthly quarterly or annually plus. You get to choose your own. Welcome gift that I'll send you as a personal. Thank you another thing if you visit our new website. I'd like to suggest that you check out our shot. We have just about everything you could want to put our logos on available there with our collaboration with t public lusty public has sales all the time so you can get some good deals absolutely sin as you go on their. They're asking you if you want to use a certain code and some of it's like thirty five percent office pretty good stuff all right dick. That's that's it for my plug. Let's go ahead and do some feedback. Okay are stuck with one voice mail and couple of emails yeah. I think that's a good amount that's in short the feedback. I don't want people get bored. I now right. Let's no fi the discussions on on these case. Suggestions are not going to be very lengthy. They don't want to go through the whole case. Just now 'cause we WANNA do an episode a little bit more so so got the voicemails from Haley and she's commenting on our Nebraska Joy Reid Episode High Jilin Day my name's Hayley and I I just WanNa say how much I love Love Your podcast and the empathy you show victims. I think that makes your podcast really unique and there's some purpose in doing that makes the story about the victim more than about one horrible day in their lives one thing. I just wanted to say I listened to you the episode today on the joyride and the confessions that were pulled out of innocent people long island how the police officers searched the car once and then came back later and found one drop of blood and it reminded me of when I served on on a churry couple of years ago and it wasn't a murder trial. It was a drug trial but basically the whole case was based on some drugs found at a car car but what happened was that someone was in a suspicious area got pulled over volunteered to let the police officer search car with his drug dog that he had with him and they didn't find anything then they laughed he ended up collecting a few people in the area and arresting them just on some suspicions and some some warrants and things and when they went back by the car again he decided to search the car again and it had been an hour since he's been there and he found a small Baggie of drugs under under the car so then he charged us man with intent to sell it was methamphetamine it like it was just enough that it was intent to sell and they we're trying to get him five years tacked onto a cemetery had and it bothered me so much when I was in the jury room. I said I would hate to think that you know me not being at my car anything that gets placed under my car or astounded my car and our after I've been there could be enough to send me you to jail and one of the other jurors said wealth that they would know that you weren't doing anything wrong. You're not suspicious and I said Yeah but isn't justice supposed to be blind. We can't convict someone on that so we ended up acquitting him of that charge and the more I found out later. The judge even said we he thought we did the right thing but I thought that was interesting and it makes me wonder how often people go to jail over things. That aren't really fair but anyway. I thought I'd share thanks again by well. Thanks Haley that is interesting and I'm totally with you on that. How scary to think that they could find something under your car and you spend years is in prison for it and I'm sure it does happen all the time. I hate to say it just an hour after they've searched the car with the drug sniffing dog nothing thing yet lo and behold you think there'd be some kind of role like you can't just go back. You know yeah well yeah. There's getting to be more and more videotapes videotapes of searches and stuff so you can look at it that way then gus that still now. I know what you mean. I'm glad that that person didn't didn't get convicted for that less. We're talking about a drug chart here not violent crime so that's even a little bit scarier to me while you're cuckoo's in prison these days yeah. That's a big issue nowadays anyway but thanks a lot for sharing that Haley. That's fascinating. Yes thank you so let me get email from Glenn. I'm GonNa let you read that Dick. He says being on the road all day. I listened to a lot of true crime podcast but must say I enjoy years the most who your attention to detail and relaxed presentation style makes you easy to listen to now. He has has a case suggestion from his hometown of Melbourne is the two thousand ten murder of a fifty two year old multimillionaire named Herman Rockefeller he led a double life as a swinger which proved fatal to him and his found dead burnt and dismembered after disappearing from the Melbourne airport. His wife knew nothing of his other life of his mystery girlfriend or his five secret mobile phones. Wow Yeah fifty seven year old. Mario Schambori chambery was amazingly only sentenced to nine years and then served only four years plus before being deported his partner Bernadette Unidad. Danny was sentenced to seven years so this is interesting by itself pretty light sentence. It's been a little while we were doing. A lot of Australia cases her while so now he's got a couple of Melbourne beers suggestions her you the little creatures Pale Ale or Carlton draught so perfect take well. We've had some carbon. I don't know which one exactly can't remember so yeah this guy. I just read a little bit but this guy is a piece of work. This Herman Rockefeller and I don't know how is able to juggle things so well so effectively that his wife had no clue what was going on but he was he was able to to do that so I thought it'd be interesting when we haven't done in Australian case for awhile show hey well. Thanks a lot glad they keep the recommendations occurred in the last two suggestions from Megan so megan right so not sure if you guys did it already or not but you should do an episode on Anthony Garcia. He was a doctor that killed four people for revenge after losing his job reminds me of the amy bishop case. So what do we know about this well. He was employed at think it was Creighton Medical Center in Nebraska and is fired for job performance issues and he didn't take kindly to that so he he returned with a gun and he killed son of one of the doctors who had fired Adam not the doctor himself he killed in another doctor couple Mr and Mrs Doctor and one other person who who is not directly involved in his situation and then he stood trial guess he's been portrayed is mentally not there may be insanity is a defense. I don't know that he was convicted but four homicides so I thought that was an interesting kiss. We love doing doctor stuff off my now because they can be so twisted your where do that. I don't know yeah I think I remember this case being on forty eight hours or one of those shows else because he was kind of just a weird guy and that's why he was losing his jobs here yeah history losing jobs. There were have sued something about Cartwright Solo picked by doing that too. Thank you mega mega. Thanks to everyone for listening and for sharing your feedback with us and we'll talk to you next week. We get by They don't

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