20 Episode results for "Mcclatchy"

Experimenting with Election Polling

Bill O'Reilly's Free Podcast

01:03 min | 2 years ago

Experimenting with Election Polling

"Right. Suspect doing an experiment. I picked out three polls CNN Quinnipiac, NBC marriage. I and we're gonna look what they say today and compare on Wednesday. If they were corrected pick these three because I don't really feel that they are. In the truth business now all three of them were wrong in the two thousand sixteen presidential legend, CNN polls wrong by six points. Big. Quinnipiac was Ron by six points and Marissa McClatchy poll back then wrong by two points. So they're all throwing out CNN Quinnipiac, and NBC marriages that the Democrats are going to do very, well, they're all pro democrat polls. So we'll see right. That's fair. I think so I gots fair. I'm picking on them. But they were wrong.

Quinnipiac CNN NBC Marissa McClatchy Ron
McClatchy CEO Craig Forman on local publishing's 'paradox': Audience up, ads down

Digiday Podcast

34:08 min | 7 months ago

McClatchy CEO Craig Forman on local publishing's 'paradox': Audience up, ads down

"This episode is brought to you by Flavio. More than thirty thousand. Ecommerce brands use Flavio for an SMS market since Clavier works directly with your real time e commerce data. It gives you all the tools needed to create more relevant personalized marketing moments from entrepreneurs two big name brands businesses of all sizes used. Flavio to build customer relationships across any distance is a clavier dot com slash digitally to schedule a demo. That's K. L. A. V. Y. O. DOT COM slash today. Before we get to this week's episode I want to encourage you to join digital. Plus this is our membership program. It's very important to us. Never more so than now you get exclusive access to all of our content. We have a specific newsletters. I write one column every Thursday as he can get that now and you get our exclusive research much more to do so visit did today dot com and hit the subscribe button and if you use podcast at checkout you will get a twenty percent discount. So please do that. Welcome to the digital podcast and Brian Martin this week or are we talking about the future of local. Because it's more important than ever and joined by Craig Form Crisis Co plachy. That is home to lots newspapers. You know Miami Herald Charlotte Observer. Kansas City star various bees Sacramento these. There there are other. Thanks very much Brian with. That's a that's a good list of thirty communities around America that together make mcclatchy were were among the largest local news providers in the country. Okay so best. The worst of times for local news. No questions challenging and in many respects like it you right to the worst of news and had to lead you there start with the worst load certainly is challenging. I guess the reason why is obvious. Strangely there's a real paradox. Happening the local news in the United States partly because of the partly because the pandemic in the corona virus crisis has been reminder to all of us in our communities of just how important is that our communities strong vital. We've never seen traffic digital traffic or even demand of the scale that we've seen a for mcclatchy and I think others would say this as well. We in March let me just jump in there. Let me just jump in there because you're a reporter. Can you give me numbers to tobacco? Sure sure sure. So the the national ratings agencies would normally give us between sixty sixty five million unique users. We did more than one hundred million unique users in March we have had a subscriber page views rising sixty percent in March from February of the corona virus. Newsletters that we're doing our newsletters or having a seventy percent open rate which is well above industry standards multiples of industry standards will do more than double our page view. Totals for video views This year approved prior. Your I can go on and on so the paradox is even though demand consumer demand is therefore your product. That's good news. Demand is through the roof. Brian but advertising has had more headwinds in twenty twenty for a few reasons than we've ever seen before in twenty twenty as a reminder. It's fourteen years since Peach Advertising newspaper. Revenues in twenty six of those revenues peaked in that period since twenty six to twenty twenty more than thirty five billion dollars. A Year of advertising revenues have have left the newspaper business and so the headwinds in advertising for news including local news have perhaps never been stronger. Yeah I mean I. It's funny in a different conversation earlier today. I was GONNA say headwinds but then I was like I think it's like a whirlwind at this point for a lot of businesses we've gone beyond headwinds We see a lot of accelerations of trends positive or negative And sounds like you're saying I mean this. This current ours has accelerated some negative trends for local news. I think when you have a situation like this you've got to go back to the root cause analysis and the recalls analysis here is that we know that we're twenty years into a digital revolution which is akin to what we saw in the industrial revolution other previous economic revolutions. And it's not going back right trying to argue. That it could be reversed isn't even good for a world in which if you're under the age of forty you've never known a world without the Internet under the age of thirty without a powerful cell phone under the age of twenty ubiquitous broadband at zero incremental costs right. These are fundamental things that are great but the local news industry in some ways has to make its case the cases very simple the recovery and the strength of our local economies is the crucial element of how we're GONNA emerge not just from the pandemic but for local economic success going forward and our brands the renowned brands that you mentioned and I could mention many others. Leather is the Kansas City star of the the the Modesto Bee or any of the other brands around the country that are mcclatchy brands. These have unique and deeply engaged local success and local connection to local audiences and advertisers. Unfortunately have gotten a little bit enamored of a story. That frankly we've been saying for some time. Digitally which is that digital can offer you the exact customer at the exact moment the customers most likely be interested in your product that when what what often you can't find in the world of digital advertising is the adjacency and the renowned brand construct that makes your advertising important in context and at this time we're local is the success story of the emergence mcclatchy and others are doing everything we can to partner with local brands to show them. The trusted environment of local news is where they need to be. Yeah it's fine. I call the original. While there's two original sins of the Internet like wine was was based in and around the click and the other was separating the audience data from the media impression. Because I think you can trace a lot of a lot of problems back to that and I understand why it happened because it could and and because a lot of engineers were calling the shots not media people. Well my background right. I left getting media in the mid nineteen ninety s LEFTA early career a very successful one at the Wall Street Journal in Dow Jones to come to Silicon Valley and be part of some of those initial platform companies and ran a big part of Yahoo. John was deeply engaging and Rising is number one in many of its media brands which which Iran Yahoo News Finance sports and many others right so I get that. But what advertisers have to understand in. It's on us to explain. We have a terrific team to explain. It is that everything we do in local is about context. And when you say oh my I worry about my brand being adjacent to news. The counterargument is news is where the audience is actually going to find out. What's real and what's real is often happening in local news. I'll give you a perfect example. Traffic is through the roof for pandemic coverage. Just like traffic is through the roof. We have unfortunately natural disasters. We see them in the southeast. Where we operate all along the eastern seaboard from Miami to Carolina's when that happens no one ever believes. It's fake news. Feed a water in downtown. Miami's there was with Hurricane Irma. And where Miami and the Miami Herald tell you how. The city is getting functioning again. What's opening we started local business directories to tell you what's open partnered with small business and partnered with the big brands in south Florida whether it's healthcare providers Raven American Airlines to point out what is available to you is local consumers every brand in America should weren't to associate with that success and story of local success. Because that's how we're going to get out of this pandemic so let me ask you this. Though on a much broader scale is the future for local one. Is it advertising not subscription? I know you're probably going say a little bit of both but like mostly convincing adver advertisers to foot the bill and then secondly with on the advertising side is it a matter of of nat big national advertisers Really focusing more on local. Because obviously you're being hit right now because local businesses There shot I mean. Many of them are shot. They're in survival mode so maybe we could just start with the advertising subscription because how does this model get sustainable? I think we could probably do like ten hours on that. But the core of it we see. We see a lot of success in big national newspapers when it comes to subscriptions. I think there are fewer success cases. And maybe you can point to some on the local level. Yeah so let's start with the two core elements that we've largely achieved mcclatchy. I it has to be digital in the past three and a half years. We've taken a business model. That now is fifty percents subscriber driven fifty percent advertiser driven and nearly fifty percent digitally driven and fifty percents print driven much higher digital penetration than we've ever had before that's point number one. I it has to be digital and you need to have digital As your core go to market for advertisers as well as for subscribers we can talk more about that the second piece to your point about subscription versus advertising. I think these businesses in the future will be based on both but you need to have a go to market that reflects the needs of your customers on the subscription side that means you have to be essential and it mcclatchy. We worked hard in our products to make them central to our local users. It means you have to have content areas that can't be lived without fearless coverage on the prizes that we've won the success that we've had for pursuing even controversial stories like the Jeffrey Epstein Scandal which was largely brought back into the public. I've through through crusading worker the Miami Herald. These are the kinds of things that distinguish local brands. And I think we'll give local brands equal power. Compared with some of the national brands that have had subscription success. We have to. We now have crossed the threshold of roughly a quarter of a million digital only subscribers the threshold of six hundred thousand Paid digital customer relationship so it's business of real scale but that's the translation to the advertising piece of the puzzle. You can come to mcclatchy. Speak to thirty deeply local market resonant products at one place You know Nick Johnson. A digital veteran will be known too many people listening to the PODCAST Who is our our head of. Advertising naked built a team across the country which offers you often said but one place to call to reach thirty different markets in many markets. Beyond right that we believe is part of the advertising success story you have to be able to offer both national brands and deeply local brands. The same sort of essential nece and that seems sort of market connection that you can offer to your subscribers. And that's what mcclatchy is built. So let me just go back to subscriptions for for a minute because Tony Hale the founder of chart beat and now he has scrawl had at an interesting point that he made over the weekend he said. The New York Times added three times more new subscribers in the first quarter than the total subscriber base of the L. A. Times the average number of new subscriptions new subscriber will have is likely about one point zero one. How many publishers strategies explicitly assume that they are in a zero sum? Fight with the New York Times. Are you in a zero sum? Fight with the New York Times. I have a lot of respect for Tony so I know this is like hell now. I didn't see his his remarks and I think what he's trying to do with. Scroll is is is super interesting but I don't think the facts support his conclusion If you look at the share of American wallets going for subscriptions and measure that over the last ten years and you compare the number of subscriptions that we all have. It's news and information or combine news information entertainment. The share argument goes I think to the point I was making is that you have to have a digital Offering I do think it's a fair comment to say that. A local news is one of those areas in which you may not have multiple local news providers. But I think if you talk to our local Customers they'll say that need for local news is not met by any of the national publications and I think if you talk to mark over the New York Times he would be the first to say that the New York Times doesn't inspire to be the local news provider. Which is why they sold the Boston Globe right right but you think you know. There's obviously there's room for to me. I don't think they're substitution. If you're in Wichita. I don't think that the Wichita Eagle there right correct the Wichita Eagle in the New York Times or substitution products. Correct so and so. I think it's popular and it's easy to dismiss. The efforts of local news and local news has had as we talk about a few minutes ago had tremendous challenges and we like many others in local news. Had to work very hard to optimize cost structure. And it's been challenging and continues to be challenging. But if you look for success when you need to be able to do is a certain essential of your product right. Great Digital Products Save users time money or delight them in some way and when it comes to local if you're able to do that and that's one of the reasons for our subscription. I don't think that anybody's abstract arguments from New York. City is GonNa be the way that you can measure success in Wichita or Modesto or Bellingham Washington name just three of our markets The idea that the national providers are substitution for the kind of coverage that you get in Kansas City the award-winning investigations into secrecy. In the Kansas state government forces political change there or even the national series that results in Pulitzer's and we've got fifty four of them over the years that's not provided by the national media and that is the core local essential nece. And that's where the strength is for local brands partnering with the local media. Pram that has that a centralist is it is a unique opportunity for local brands especially the time when the economy is getting restarted. That is true although I will say that I think Tony retreated to the POCONOS. It's like a vacation home. So he's he's not making from New York City but I think the Tony Tony Tony Cell. Sorry Tony just had to throw that out there. Another thing on on the advertisement to the POCONOS now. Hey Look I honestly in all seriousness. I live in Brooklyn. So I'm one of these people but I am now in Blue Bell Pennsylvania where I have retreated and let me tell you. The New York Times is not a substitution product in Montgomery County Pennsylvania is just not. We need local information here and you know. I know from growing up you know the Philadelphia Inquirer is is shrunken. I think it's doing a pretty nice job. Overall with with with the resources it has but it's a shadow of its former self and I'm sure your papers I wonder. How do you get out of a trap? Where because of the constant optimizations of the cost pressures for reasons that are self inflicted probably in in previous Regimes. But also just you know. The market has completely Decimated local news. How do you? How do you stay ambitious enough? I mean you mentioned the Miami Herald breaking the the breaking but really resurfacing the Epstein story in a way that Really unravelled the whole thing. How do you stay ambitious at the same time when your your local news has seemingly always focused on cutting costs so this will surprise some folks who are listening but the amount of operating expense in our newsroom? Our headcount of newsroom related resources is about thirty percent of total headcount mcclatchy now up from about twenty six percent when I took over as the CEO about three and a half years ago. So the percentage of our total throwaway employees is actually been tilted towards newsgathering. And perhaps part of that is because we view news at the core of our mission independent local journalism in the public interest has been our mission since we found one hundred sixty three years ago and so the focus on that produces the kind of coverage that is typified by a series. We did this year called throwaway kids which points out that there is an incredible transition for kids coming out of the foster care system and they turn a to the No longer being a minors. Legally there's no place to go and that often produces an on ramp for Would ultimately winds up being entrance into the the criminal justice system and not not productive. That's just one example. None and all of our newsrooms from from Alexi to Pacific northwest. So the ambitions remain strong. And it's partly the creativity of our newsroom. Which has helped us do this. Not Just in Miami but do it in Raleigh. Do It in Charlotte and do it in Kansas City and and do it in in Bellingham Washington in Belleville Illinois and so we've refocused our our coverage on themes that are essential in our communities in Fresno we've launched the education lab project focusing on education in the hard hit areas of the Central Valley of California in Sacramento and investigations lab that we then have expanded to other markets including in Miami. We worked with a startup called Trace To Do An exploration of gun violence across America a year after Park Land on climate change in Florida. A exploring The devastating wildfires in California. I could go on and on and on and and the way that you do this I think is through a spirit of openness. We're working with other newsrooms. Not just within the mcclatchy family but from time to time with others who might have previously more challenging to work with done in California with the L. A. Times with many others That's another way in which kind of keep your focus on local journalism and you have to start with what drives that a measure of essential nece and Thank heaven we have a terrific group of leaders in our news of In Our news division Who I think have been really on the cutting edge of that so look I sometimes say I can say as myself. You know Part of a team. That was a pulitzer finalist at the Wall Street Journal. And you know. The golden era of a news organization is often marked by the day that you've walked out the door and I understand that feeling and in many ways newsrooms fewer people. There's no question about it but having fewer people doesn't mean you're diminished. It means you have to do things differently. And while the newspaper maybe smaller may have fewer sections the actual coverage and the focus that we have on being essential guarantee. You has never been stronger and I think when you actually look at the coverage that's coming out of many of these local newsrooms. We have to take our hats off to the journalists who are working day in day out. They are first responders their first responders in the news and information world and in many ways I think looking backwards is not the way to look the way to do it. As measured in the digital era is being essential. Are you driving engagement patriots growth in subscribers conversion and in all of those different metrics? We've actually mcclatchy anyway. Never been stronger. We're GONNA take a quick break to hear from our sponsor this podcast is brought to you by Cleo the growth marketing platform trusted by more than thirty thousand ECOMMERCE brands as economy changes. More people are turning to ECOMMERCE brands to shop for just about everything. And if you're an ECOMMERCE brand you might be seeing more first time customers these days but once they've made that I purchased. How do you keep them coming back? That's what Clave Ios for. Clavijo is the ultimate email text messaging platform for ECOMMERCE brands. It works with your e commerce marketing data. So you can make sure every brand action feels personal and relevant if you're feeling overwhelmed with growing your business especially in this climate. You're not alone. Close here to help. Brands Build. Relationships across any distance is Clavijo dot com slash digital schedule. Demo THAT'S K. L. A. I Y. O. dot com slash digital so. Let me ask you. This used the word of central like many times in that. That is clearly the seems to me. Probably the you know that you need to be. If you're in Wichita if you're in Bellingham you need to be essential to those communities. Let's say you nail that is there a sustainable model though considering all the executives forces to use some sort of MBA term? I think I know what it means. arrayed against local news being a for profit endeavor lake. Maybe I don't know like is local news. Really A for profit endeavour in the future because you can nail all the essential factors but it would seem like you might still come up short when it comes to the fact that so much. Advertising goes to Google and facebook and all the rest of the stuff that that that that we know. Advertisers don't like news etc well. Let's talk about that last piece I We had a great agency reader. Come to us the other day and say you. We just don't find us and we said well. Actually you buy a lot of news. And he said down. We don't find uses a big. Cpg and large successful retailer retails faced all kinds of headwinds as we know but they're retail customers one of the largest Big Box retailers in the country. And we just all by news and we said it probably will surprise you but you by news all the time. You just don't know you're buying it. It's coming pro grammatically. You're buying it on exchanges. You don't know what your trading desk is actually doing with all due respect. Let us partner with you to use those dollars for your clients more effectively because we are digital digitally designed. I don't WanNa see digital I because I think that has a bad reputation. We are a client clientcentric agency. Centric customer centric eight the Advertising Group and he said Gee you know I hadn't realized that of course we're buying it rebinding grammatically because we want that audience we want to reach. You Know Thirty. Five to fifty four year olds who are likely to go and be buying home and garden this this weekend. And of course we're buying the Lexington Herald leader and of course we're buying the Miami Herald and of course we're buying the Raleigh News righteous. Didn't know that you said that's exactly the point so to answer your question. A sustainable model Brian. Let's take a step back to ECON one. Can you have cost? That is less than your revenue. The answer that is unequivocal yes. We've proved it time and time again and we proved it last year mcclatchy we're operating cash flow is just under a hundred million dollars. What you actually have to do is manage to stabilize the revenue curve. Which has been very hard in the newspaper business because of that. Thirty five billion dollars in advertising that has left the system but if you look at the structure and what we've been working so hard to do in transitioning mcclatchy to as I said a fifty subscription advertiser business and largely a fifty fifty digital print. Business is to build a sustainable model that turns on having a cost structure that actually can last as the revenue model transforms and. That's what we've been focused on. It is important advertising's a big piece of that but that's why we've invested in advertising approach that we have we do have to encourage advertising customers to partner with us and to think differently. Think differently about news. Think differently about local success in. Think differently about the environment in which you want your customers your your advertising brands to appear. I want to get back to the think differently. That was you had a conversation like this with a former digital podcast guest many years ago not many years several years ago in shaffer which is kind of incredible. The that that you need to have that message go out to to advertisers. That they need to think differently about news. But that's the situation. We live in on the model question. I mean why isn't just the benevolent benevolent billionaire? Local billionaire the better model Tell me what model you mean. L. A. Times. Well Patrick soon. Song is a visionary entrepreneur and very dedicated to success for the La Times along with his leadership team. A nor Perlstein. Chris Argentaria has made a agreed investment in in Los Angeles. I think you have to ask the question Is that a model. That exists everywhere. The is no Patrick Has Done that wonderfully in Los Angeles But but You know there are a handful of places in America where there have been a such investments of but America's got more than a handful of cities and many more than a handful of towns and communities okay so billionaires don't scale that basically the long long and the short of it well. I think the long the short of it is many models may work. But you don't have a local patron for every community. It's the same thing that I've often with the laudable. A not for profit and play digital startups. We've started to ourselves When the Youngstown vindicator in Ohio After one hundred fifty or so years. ceased publication last year. We started in association with goal in the compass experiment. A digital only a news organization in eastern Ohio called Mahoning matters and we just announced Earlier this quarter our second such market in Longmont Colorado outside of The boulder which we expect to launch later this year so mcclatchy is experimenting with digital only brands with no legacy operation to bring our brand of essential local news and information with journalistic credentials of one hundred sixty three years of commitment independent local journalists and the public interest. So we believe in digital only models but one thing I will say whether it's mcclatchy or anybody else. Starting a digital brand is an expensive exercise and there has been a great deal of enthusiasm for just putting out a sign. Any suggestion that putting out a sign a may be sufficient for local success. I think it's necessary but I'm not so sure I'd say it's sufficient I think there'll be many models that succeed but the key will be building a sustainable cost structure and sustainable strategy for revenue. The idea that you can go to one place in reach thirty most important markets of the United States that are growing fifty percent faster than the national average which is the mcclatchy proposition is a very strong proposition for both readers and advertisers. And it's a very strong business model so put Google and facebook are putting a lot of money right now into the local news system Who knows if that's sustainable right? I mean like what role. Do you see those kinds of like you know both grants and supports that come from these gigantic tech companies. Well we may be a little bit different based in northern California and having leadership team. That's extremely digital. We've worked closely with the platforms. Going back to the very earliest days of the very first search. Engines mcclatchy was an investor. Actually in some of those along with some other of the news companies and so it's not unfamiliar ground to us. I think when you think about it. Those models have changed a lot over time in fact when Yahu news was at its strength. We paid millions of dollars a year in licence fees to wire services and to news providers to bring of local news sports national news international news and weather to tens of millions of people who went to Yahoo as search portal to get that information so these models have evolved in the last twenty years. And I think they're GONNA continue twelve off. Okay so let's get back in and on this note about advertisers. Why like why do you still have to make the case? That news is essential advertisers. Wouldn't wouldn't it? Be Self evident that their financial results would suffer if they avoided news. Brian the road to success rights True it's paved every day. It's not enough to just have a great brand like the Miami Herald or any other great brands. You mentioned him. I don't need to or digital you have to make tastes your customers all the time in the world. There's nothing easier than to lose a customer and by the way that's even true for for large platforms you know we talk about some of the large platforms look at the businesses. They've had to acquire over the years in a. We can talk about some of the largest ones we partner with all of them but those businesses may have corporate name but they've bought other businesses over time and invested billions of dollars billions of dollars of making sure that every day. They recreate the engagement that drives their business. I do think that now a year twenty four. Maybe you're twenty five. I'm dating this from when the first Internet businesses went public in the mid nineties when I first came out to Silicon Valley so I've been here for the entire evolution of of that end. Continue to be a driver of innovation and passionate about technology media and telecom. And I still think it's very early days but the fact is this is never done and it is not at all a surprise for mcclatchy to be making the case to our customers. Our customers need to realize that in the success from emerging from chronic crisis. Were Anytime Day in day out. The best way to reach with their local customers and their local success is the essential branded provider in their local communities. Which more often than not is a mcclatchy publication in the communities in which we operate so we make that case. Yeah I mean I think local should actually benefit from the hodgepodge that quote unquote opening is going to take place. Because you know there's going to be sections of this country. That are extremely different situation. You want extremely different messaging than other sections right. I mean they'll be places in Texas that are back to normal and there's going to be New York City which are is not going to be back to normal anytime soon. Look we know this right. Not to rep but recovery is not going to happen nationally. Write the stories. We report our local stories and recovery is GONNA be local community by community and national advertisers. Have the opportunity to scale with us and we can scale their brands with our news brands and do that in authentically local environment. I mean that is our story. And that is our Ability and it's a unique ability that even national using information companies can't do okay crack. GonNa leave it there. Thank you so much Brian. Thank you really appreciate it and good luck to all of your audience and thank you all for joining us. We'll be back next week with new upset before you go a reminder that you can get a twenty percent discount on annual membership to digital plus just go to digital dot com slash subscribe and enter the code. Podcast at checkout. The Corona virus pandemic brings a lot of uncertainty to the world of business and we at digital plus wants to help you navigate that digital plus members or a big part of what helps us cover the industries that we do and they get to read everything digital has to offer again to join go to digital dot com slash subscribe and enter the code. Podcast at checkout.

Miami Herald Brian Martin mcclatchy Miami America Kansas City mcclatchy The New York Times partner L. A. Times Tony Tony Tony Cell Wichita Bellingham California New York City United States Flavio K. L. A. Wall Street Journal
Columbia's Emily Bell on the McClatchy bankruptcy, the 'crisis' of local journalism, and how 'civic media' could help

Reliable Sources with Brian Stelter

46:36 min | 10 months ago

Columbia's Emily Bell on the McClatchy bankruptcy, the 'crisis' of local journalism, and how 'civic media' could help

"One of the nation's top newspaper. Publishers is going bankrupt. What does it mean to you? That's one of the questions here on this week's reliable sources podcast on welcome. I'm Brian stelter. I'm your host for this weekly podcast in between our Sunday television broadcasts on CNN. This podcast is our chance to go in depth with media leaders. Newsmakers talking about how the news is made. Can't sometimes how the news is unraveling and that's what we're seeing right now. Mcclatchy is the nation's second largest publisher of local newspapers and on Thursday February thirteenth. It filed for bankruptcy. This was years in the making it kind of seemed inevitable at one point but it was still a signal moment for. The struggle is the continuing struggles of local publishers. So let's talk about it and more with Emily Bell. She's a professor at the Columbia Journalism School and the founding director of the Town Centre for Digital Journalism at Columbia. She also writes for the Columbia Journalism Review and for the Guardian. Emily thanks for being here. Thanks for having me. Brian mcclatchy bankruptcy. Just feels like more of the same and maybe that is. What's surprising is that this is becoming just the new normal yet. I'm afraid say and we've had a couple of really terrible years in particular local media but that's on top of a pretty terrible decade so two thousand papers gone workforce heart tons of forty thousand. Now mcclatchy is a very old news organization it first Aston Sacrimento in eighteen fifty seven with the daily be. Sacrimento BE SO. I think that's part of it is yes it is more of the same. But it's sort of shocking as well that you have here a group of thirty newspapers which do really amazingly good journalism which is pretty much kind of changing family ownership. We don't know what really the future holds for once it comes out of bankruptcy and this is a change that's happened so quickly. Zaino in in two thousand and six mcclatchy made the really disastrous business decision to buy Knight Ridder which was another news chain for wait for it. Six point five billion dollars and when you think about that in terms of how disastrous the last fifteen years of being for revenues in the news business. It's inconceivable to imagine that somebody would pay for news chain and it's that debt which was really slowly crushed the company so this is maybe being coming firm. You know three four five years is but now it's finally arrived. It's another opportunity to look at just how deep this crisis? Yeah it was a slow motion. Disaster mcclatchy tried all these different things. Try to avoid it now. They've had to take the leap and we know it's moving from family ownership to to a hedge fund type ownership. What do you think the impact of that is? You know you talk about the family and going back to the eighteen hundreds but what does it mean to the readers? Well what it means to the region says that you just have fewer reporters on the beat. So you might have a courthouse. That doesn't have a reporter in it. You might have a State House that doesn't have a reporter guarantee you might not see the reporter around your local town you know. I can still remember the names of the reporters and photographers. That works for my local paper and a town of twenty thousand people in the royalist Paul of Brenton and none of none of those jobs exist anymore not just in America but in many many places as well and it means that there's lots of research now that proves that when papers Disappear when reporting disappears from local communities. Then there are slight rises in corruption. Public officials pay themselves more so nothing it means for democracy. Is that where there are no local? Newspapers people tend to vote for senators and presidents along party lines. Much more say when there are papers present now. What does that mean? It means that people can make slightly different judgments that they are. They are better informed about who their local officials are what they're doing that less kind of parties out so I think that we think about well does it. Really matter joined a facebook group we can get recommendations on. Yelp we can look on Google maps. We've all got weather APPs on our fine. Does it really matter that that boring report about the Education Board which I never read anyway doesn't exist anymore? On the answer's yes absolutely matters. Any is the core part of journalism that supports democracy starts at ground level in the smallest communities. And those are the places now that just do not have reporters because we don't know what we don't know but I specifically would say moving from family ownership to help on what we lose. Why do we assume that just because the bankers come in so they're going to jobs? I know that's how it works but I've just say why isn't there anybody out there that happens to have a lot of money. Who also wants to try to find a way to keep the groups? I really wish I really wished I wasn't that might be but the role of the dice on that was Warren Buffett who is an extremely wealthy individual and run spot. You're halfway which the fund and he was convinced that you could save local news with enough investment and caring for the journalism and he bailed out last year and said No. I've looked at this and this is where the Digital Gio -opoly facebook and Google really come in right. Which is what's happened is a complete collapse of the advertising model. Basically for any media which is not a large platform doesn't mean you can't have an advertising supported business that works well CNN. I'm in your beautiful new building. Today is clearly nor short of cash. Fox News is not short of cash. But the scale that you have to have now. This is a winner takes all economy. It's a winner. Takes it all economy in tech? It's a winner. Takes all economy in terms of all household incomes and winner takes all economy in news. But news is not a commodity. It's really important that people who are not in the top one percent or ten percent society have access to really really high quality information about decisions that affect them. And I'm not worried. I used to be worried about all news. And now when I see the New York Times during contrastingly well when you talk about rich individuals to in the Jeff bezos The Washington Post. And that's doing really really well the Wall Street Journal's doing really really really well Financial Times is doing pretty well my sharp wit right where I came from. Originally The Guardian is doing okay but these are kind of global news operation. Now you see there is no model. There is no model for advertising supported. Local news that is sustainable. And that's not just me this. I've spoken to editors bankers spoke at. Nobody can nobody can see molly in this market. Which means that. It has to move probably to a nonprofit maybe to civically owned kind of model and that can happen. There are lots of people working on that and there are loads of really great. Experts out there doing this but it's going to happen slowly Brian. These things take like ten years and communities. Don't have the right information right now. And what's more? There's a lot of kind of opportunity for bad actors to come into this market while you don't have come washed all journalists right and we should talk about these hyper partisan and downright misinformation filled websites. That are trying to fill the voids local news. Let's go right into the six and that Knight Ridder Deal. If that hadn't happened with mcclatchy still have fallen apart the way it has because of Google facebook and the digital pressures. I think I think it's hard to see how mcclatchy would avoided this one way or another so we can all go back. We'll look in hindsight and say that was an insane amount of money to pay full Knight Ridder. But don't forget that you know. Even as recently as the mid two thousand news chains were still throwing off a lot of cash in its nieces recently that that has been a crushing burden if it was dead rate if the if the news industry was debt free arguably could cut costs and it could keep some of these structures but we've got all sorts of models we got last year. Gannett and buzzfeed laid off between them about I think so two thousand dollars something on the same day and they could not be more different multiples. They're both supported by advertising. And that's the thing. So subscription is working but subscription is not really something so if you think about two hundred thousand subscriptions at mcclatchy currently but they've got thirty papers right so if you do the math that's really not enough sub. Spur paper to keep them going. You were talking about your hometown paper. And knowing the names of the editors I still remember Susan who is the editor and the writer of of the Damascus. Gazette where I grew up and I'm just in my head. I'm trying to do the math now. Right if you've got a town of couple of thousand people what proportion of them would be willing to pay for the news and would that be enough to keep Susan I in business? I mean on the back of the book. The math doesn't add up. It's it no. It doesn't add up from outside when we think about. You know we all moving into haves and have nots in for news. That's kind of I think. The last becoming not just as a structural problem is also becoming a problem that we all share. So you know we work neo workers. Cnn I work at Columbia Journalism School. These opposed consensus be elite establishments how we redistribute resources back down into the communities that really need it is something that should occupy it all every single day because I think without it. You know what people don't realize about local news is that's kind of web it's sort of web. Big News comes from as well right that we're in the election in the moment and you can kind of follow you. Politicians around the circus comes to town. Dominates Airways huge viewing figures. But when it comes to things like you know the failure the APP in Iowa and kind of what's happening on the ground there however many people you have covering that I read something in Des Moines Register completely nailed this story you how local local professor saying this is not GonNa work. You have people saying the complicated system in Iowa means that this contest assist. We shouldn't be trying in here and I kind of think about this. This happens every day for weights right and we as reporters working sometimes national international level. You kind of rely on that and once it goes actually finding it and finding a record of it and finding reliable archive is really really hot on this story to the commentary piece for the Guardian about the grenfell talent is asked to wear a hundred and fifty. Five people died. One of the critical failures in that process was a lack of accountability reporting on the richest bars in London where there was no housing coverage where there was no reports of the community. Where the only people who are really agitating about the flammable cladding on the building were activist groups within Within the buildings but they didn't have the leverage. We know. It's like when you kind of embarrassed a politician or when you put on the on the public record or when you go back and say hey look this housing committee overload this. That's when that reporting has real impacts right and I think that when it goes the way we we don't always associate some of these kinds of things that are happening now with the lack of local reporting but it all kind of fits together in the picture of how we want democracies function right right. You've mentioned nonprofit as possible path forward and also said civically owned. What's the difference? What is typically on? Well I think that first of all nonprofit I think is just one of those things. That's going to be inevitable. Dari habit. It's already happening and we're already seeing local papers actually transferring. It turns transforming themselves to nonprofit organizations. Civic ship is something that we haven't really thought through so much in the states as public media is a tiny tiny tiny part of a much larger media budget. If you look at other places in the world there are models and subsidies and when I say civic ownership is you know it means it's not government controlled media but it might be something that comes from say a hypothecated tax from the local town. It might be okay. You pay into a fund which goes towards things like. I'm how we manage local data or whether we support local newsrooms or if we get them a tax break. And that's what I made about these kind of innovative models all of the innovation that has to happen. I think around those civic media kind of propositions that we're not that familiar with and that are really some new because we've always assumed that the market is the best way of supporting independence that profitability is the thing that suppose independent news and now we know that that is actually not true. We have to come up with a with a different way of doing it. If if we or if we pay into systems that we don't use but we think are really important like the Fire Service Police Service the education system you know the roads maintenance the parks whatever. I think the fact that we feel that we don't have to pay into news or reporting a local level shows two things first of all it shows. Actually sometimes the media itself has not on the great job off advocating itself and delivering the services that people want and secondly. I think that it shows that there's been a pretty effective. Disinformation campaign against journalism was a whole often by politicians to say. Don't listen to these people you know. We know the rhetoric right and I think that that and so I think that's that we have a lot of work to do not just models but in actually kind of thinking about how we reconnect communities to the ideas. I inner to participate in democracy. You need these things happening whether or not you read them from cover to cover every and whether or not you agree with every word that has produced everywhere has published some that you're gonNA disagree with but also to these that we can take the journal numbers and out of the politics conversation. So much of the disinformation about journalism. The hate against journalists. It's about politics and what we're talking about here is coverage of the roads coverage of the emergencies coverage of local issues. Some of which involves politics. Yes this is true but I think that's where actually we've struggled to do a good job again because you know kind of resources have been in recession for awhile in journalism. So when we talk about these big deals that were done of consolidates reveals that were done in the in the two thousand they were in response to really the rise of digital. And at that point you start to see news organizations really consolidating. I'm what they call kind of back. Office functions into centralized bigger units often withdrawing reporting resources from the towns or villages that would have previously. We have a small roles or two or three people so I think that that's twenty years really since a lot of places of have what? I'll call the kind of fiber services and that's yes both generation and people who've gotten an analysis of people saying well. You know kind of like that just isn't much local news like our local papers. Got It or you don't get to hear about this anymore or even sort of things like. I don't know who's died in my community anymore because I used to be able to read the obits and now they're very hard to find online. It's like there are lots of different ways in which I think. This is facts as much media. Now everything from Netflix as I say through two incomes of online recommendations everything at your fingertips everything instantly and a lot of that does sort of cover gaps in local news. So where so where what? We'd call public interest. Journalism has gone away. You can still find things like in a maybe kind of lifestyle blogs all property blogs that cover your block or area. You can find things that look at food or look at retail or whatever and they've taken the profitable bits of local news and put them into these sort of kind of different kind of setups and not doing the reporting because it costs a lot of money to like the citizen Apple. I talk about sometimes. That tells me on the nine one one scanner. You know it might tell me why. They're sirens in the neighborhood. But it's only guests just based on other citizens are providing information that what they see. Your don't see it's not actually report right now and the police blotter importing well. This'll say it's also tone of only bad knees. I mean my sister's an APP tends to tell me about wilder queens. Why client identified me. As recruiting interested torrent of bad news. We're going to tell you about the happy stories on the back about the old neighbor. I think she speaks a bigger problem as well. Which is the role of the intermediary platforms not just been to take away the funding mechanism of advertising because much better more efficient talking to small kind of news hour. Who was giving up. He said you know I get it. I'm like as a small business owner. Mike confined everybody. I need with like ten twenty dollars on Google or facebook but as somebody who wants to run a news organization. That's actually heartbreaking. But but when you think about also how they target particular types of news. We did some research in. We've done lots and lots of research on local in the last few years at town center one of the things that we looked at with. How in very rural communities in how very urban communities people felt about their local news outlets and how they were served and one kinda surprising finding was local editor saying that they'd had feedback from their readers that they will like. You know you guys you only couple of crime is all about like kind of scary stories and things and the emphasis was like. That's not really fair. That's really not what we do. It's only a portion of what we do and the answer we're talking to. You said I worked out that. Actually what was happening is that that's what they're seeing on. The facebook page because frightening story is get more engagement gets promoted to you so you might stories. Yes that you share the story side. The Algorithm doesn't actually show you the balance local news doesn't give you the good news about you know hey. This park has been renovated. It shows you the scary news and this lack of control of your audience. That lack of cohesion is something that I think is particularly powerful and problematic for local news organizations and facebook will say we're launching a new TAB. You can find it in the APP. It has high quality news. Yeah that's not a sufficient answer visit. Well I go the facebook news. I rolled out to be on the morning. Does reading about the mcclatchy bankruptcy. Wow and and and it was could not have been a great contrast which is here. Is facebook saying we'RE GONNA pay publishers to appear in our APP WE'RE GONNA transfers vanity than we can only have high quality publishes but there are no local stories in their mind. Tab is entirely made up of like big national brands. Most of whom are actually doing pretty well financially economically. How big deals with things like the Wall Street Journal New York Times? This is what I mean. There's a kind of something about Google face because spending a lot of money in the market. Well tiny amount competitor. How much they have a relatively large amount in journalism support and some of it is going on news experiments and local news support but a lot of it is also going to big old and and you kind of think do we really won't Google and facebook deciding what the shape of local journalism should be. Should they really be even involved in this conversation? And yet they're the ones with the money. So you know increasingly. We're looking to sources of funding. That actually we should be reporting on Google by up buildings in logo places under a Shell Company name. They are involved in civic projects. They want to put self driving cars on the road. Who's going to report on that? If they are being funded by Google. It sounds kind of obvious. This is not a good idea and yet these are increasingly the only options that people have when it comes to finding support for the newsroom's while we've been talking. The Wall Street Journal came out with a story by Ben. Mullen that says Google is in talks with publishers about paying a licensing fee for content. But that would be in a news. Product a move. That would mark a shift in the search giant's relationship with news. Organizations came out ten minutes ago right and the headline is Google and talks to pay publishers for news. It sounds a lot like what facebook has been doing. Yes with the news APP This is describing some sort of news product that Google would have and that you know I in exchange for licensing fees. They they'd be able to include stories from newspapers and networks. This sounds like more of the same. You know that they're going to subsidize in some fashion newsrooms but it just brings up all the thorny questions that you just brought up. I mean it's perfect. Perfect that this is breaking right now and she says more of the same in actually kind of whenever you broke us you've got a good chance that storyline. This will bring them all the time. That's funny but you asked me why go. Bryant was pretty big change here. Here's the really big change. The control of the control of the media has totally changed in the last fifteen years and we have not really come to terms with that and it has changed from companies like Time Warner companies like the New York Times to really being controlled by apple facebook Amazon Google in and we don't think of it in those terms but when but when you look at how people find their news and when you look at the kind of ecosystem that now we're publishing into the control really has shifted. It has gone to a new set of players who don't and historically have seen no responsibility for helping or supporting reporting and who are now doing so. I think under pressure of a regulatory threat so we can see this google payment and apple news and facebook payment for. I mean apple doesn't actually pay publishers directly but facebook payment as necessary support for the news industry you could also see them. Potentially as lobbying could see these payments to news organizations that they don't have to give that have no accountability attached to them as lobbying against the possibility of being broken up or regulated or taxed specifically to support journalism. So I would much rather see something where we broke off. Like several billion from these organizations which instantly they would not miss and said this is how we are going to start at redistribute funds from the aggregated the advertising companies back to the communities that needs reporting rapids and Google and facebook. Picking those winners losers. Yeah should it. Should it be a more holistic efforts others be picking? I don't want to be entirely gloomy about this. There are some really fantastic things that have happened in local communities. If you look cats networks I call networks things. You look at things like the independent nonprofit network. There are some amazing new news organizations beer up Chicago. Go Berkeley cider out in on the West Coast. You have all sorts of nonprofits. They've actually been making a really good. Go of it for against or ten to fifteen years now and you have established networks now propublica which incidentally launched in I think two thousand Sambergen which everybody said would not was not GonNa Work Wants Nonprofit Investigative Unit. It's now got regional. Bureau is working with local newsrooms. And I think that's there's a powerful experience supported by Google facebook Giggling facebook in report for America. Which is again a scheme to return. Sort of more reporting results on the ground. These are kind of networks. I think which can really help Zoe. We are seeing some fantastic workout of those projects and we're seeing potentially a model whereby you could start to redistribute some of this money if only you could get your hands on enough of it. And that's the thing which is my worry is that we will get there eventually but eventually is going to be too late. And in the meantime all sorts of people who are not really kind of good faith. Actors are spinning up news outlets online which kind of filling the void of reporting. I think that's a really worrying trend. Hey let's talk about Quick outbreak here. On the podcast and then more with emily bell in just a moment hiring is challenging. But there's one place you can go. We're hiring simple fast. And smart and growing businesses connect to qualified candidates. Quotable co-founder Gretchen. Ebner experienced how challenging hiring after unsuccessfully searching for a new artist to grow with their education tech company but then she switched to Ziprecruiter and saw an immediate difference. And you can too by sounding up for free at ZIPRECRUITER DOT COM slash? Cnn pod Ziprecruiter doesn't depend on candidates finding you it finds them you and by using ziprecruiter screening questions to filter. Candidates Gretchen founded easier to focus on the best ones. Then find the right one. In fact after posting jobs on Ziprecruiter Gretchen. Said she was honestly surprised. She found qualified applicants so quickly and hired a new game artist in less than two weeks with results. Like that it's no wonder four out of five. Employers who post on Ziprecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. Ziprecruiter the smartest way to hire see. Why ziprecruiter is effective for businesses of all sizes dry Ziprecruiter for free at our web address. Ziprecruiter DOT COM SLASH CNN pod. That's ziprecruiter dot com slash C. N. N. P. O. D. Everyone Barbara McDonald here hosted the brand new podcast from Hsen down the hill. The Delphi murders in February of two thousand seventeen Abigail Williams and liberty. German went for a hike on a warm day in Delphi. Indiana and vanished. Nearly twenty four hours later their bodies are found in the woods. Police began working a crime scene. They say they'll never unseen. They soon find libby cellphone which has video and audio of the killer who three years later remains on the loose search for down the hill the Delphi murders wherever you're listening now and we're back here on reliable sources podcast talking with Emily Bell from Columbia Journalism School. She's the director of the Towel Center for Digital Journalism at Columbia eluded to this issue. These hyper partisan local things that seem like newsrooms or news websites popping up all across the country. I how do you even describe? What these are is hyper partisan the right. Turn what are these? Yeah well they believe. They are political lobbying efforts which are definitely funded by and often in by party political groups which are borrowing from the design and language of local news trust in local news outlets to deliver a political messages in a much less obvious way than if it was an advertisement that had proper disclosures on it and it's not entirely new tactic. This has been around in eastern Europe. It's been rounds in other continents like pulse of Africa is showing up a little bit in Europe but the twenty two thousand election cycle is when we really sing it kind of explode in the United States. And they're all maybe half a dozen of these networks and when you said. Brian what are they? You know we're we're researching this and we discovered a network of about six hundred sites four different ownership companies which are all kind of slightly linked also slightly obscure called metric media. When you dig down you find out that actually there are strong. Partisan links in all of the ownership structures. And what do they do? They put out like forty thousand. We've gathered about forty thousand stories over the course of a month. How do they manage to produce that many stories you ask? Well they have some freelance reporters working cross these networks Everest in most states. I think that there are few states. They don't have properties in and the answer is they automate output so these stories at templates and written by robots and they push forward talking points. So if you go through this sort of network of sites you'll see for instance story after story on fight for now the thing we don't know Brian is do these. Have ANY IMPACT DO P? Anyone really read them and we and that's what we kind of looking at whether they have you know when you talk to consultants who've been studying this and people in the disinformation space. They you know. They don't people don't even have to really necessarily read them. You know you just have to flick pass the headline that house voter fraud and it's kind of staging people's state of mind to think. Oh maybe the election. Maybe the election is not sound. Maybe those things that asking me to bring to the polling station. I really need to do that. You know these are very subtle sort of disinformation campaigns. And they're happening on the left as well so we saw were newsroom network called the Korean newsroom of much smaller number of sites a half dozen say which is controlled by created by a company called acronym which are actually built the very unsuccessful. Io APP which is Democrat money and somebody leaks their post. Their strategy document device posted the whole thing and if you read the Strategy Document it. Has this very chilling paragraph. That says you know without doubt the best way to influence people is through targeting them with news articles that fits that we know that journalists works because actually I kind of political consultants are now using the currency thing is that some of these stories are actually quite useful they give but but once your kind of want you give them your information or you're in their feed or whatever the fact that these are pretty much a kintu political advertise it. Yeah is never really made explicit. You go to their majors and they say this is a local news we care about the independence of the keywords. Brian nonpartisan is often used much more by. It has said the ones that we started on the right and the left. But if you're casual reader you're not GonNa get to where this has come from what I have noticed. Is that people who were from the places where these pop up where you have local reporters also a much better at spotting them going. What the Hell is wrong? And they kind of they gain traction eightfold. We're going to need a name for these because there's also different flavors of them there. Are there are sites that are like clearly partisan clearly rider or left but using real writers and then he said it others that are using robots and others that are. Malysz completely militias We we're going to mess. Wait wait a funnel political dirty dirty tricks to funnel op research against politicians. All of that. It is is borrowing from the trust. The people have traditionally invested in local news outlets and that means that ultimately will destroy that trustee. And that's but that's a very bad thing. We call them pink slime outlets the reason which it sounds we came from an attribution given to a company called genetic which started off by doing lots of automated stories about ten years ago and is now behind some of these bigger networks local sites and the reason that it was called pink slime because it was it was referring to sausage manufacturer. Where the stuff that you get? Which is not meet in your hot talk but looks like it and the acts like it is known in. The industry is pink slime. So it's a kind of it is a derogatory term. But it kind of fits that description of you being presented with a substance right which is not really what it appears to be right. And if people go pink slime outlets. They'll find the Alzheimer's research on this. You know it makes me think back to mcclatchy. We were talking earlier about mcclatchy being founded in eighteen fifty seven the daily beast now the Sacramento Bee and that's the kind of trust and brand recognition and importance that you can only earn by being in the community for decades for hundreds of years and I guess we just keep pointing people back to those brands that have been around for a while you can at least rely on to some degree because they have a reputation and a track record. But you know it's easier to put up a website called daily or weekly Ryan siphoned off the audience. There is nothing to stop that. And that's what we're saying and I think that that is the thing that worries me almost more than the complete lack of funding through advertising. Because I think that we can figure this out and I think we can start to kind of you know refund through other mechanisms but the trust and the brands and the presence in communities is something which actually just takes a lot longer to reestablish once. It's gone yeah and if you think that we have like whatever it is like ninety thousand nineteen half thousand towns cities and that include you kneel in the US and we have about thirty seven thousand newsroom star of imagine all the communities which are not covered if you think about like the vast majority of that thirty thousand thirty seven thousand reporting staff being in big cities focused on national media. It leaves you with really very very few people and you know. The rhetoric from people who say news needs to change faster needs to be more digital is do more with less. Don't have people have robots you can gather all this data etc doesn't work you know if you if you the local courtroom. You can automate stories from that right now but what you can't do is say. Hey I know this judge. They tend to kind of go in this direction or that direction. I know that police officer I even know the kid that's been brought in here for d you are your possession or whatever and I can see what's happening in the gallery and I can talk to people around it. That's the that's the first step of the criminal. Justice system is a really important step it used to be routinely covered by human reporters and now even in New York City. You go to the courtrooms in Queens North thinker reporter and these are things that we kind of losing. We're not wear it because we think well court reporting does it really matter. It really matters and it can't be replaced by automation. I'm leaving this conversation thinking about what you said about public media and civically owned media because that's not oftentimes discussed as an option or as a pathway forward. There's this impression I think I say public media and what comes to mind immediately as PBS NPR? Yeah which are mostly funded in other ways but they get government subsidy and when I hear public media I think. Republicans Democrats defended sometimes. It's a partisan thing right gets be get squabbled about every year. President trump has stripped away strip the funding away from every year. Congress keeps it in and on and on we go. But that's a very like narrow conversation about public media. Yeah it's knowledge what happens in other countries right. What's possible if we were to rethink this. So just help us a little bit rethink what it could mean. Well you could make. It could mean and also Brian I think it needs to mean a whole ton of things so it might mean just a set of what I call citizen-friendly regulations around really nerdy things like interoperability or data control on the web. So in other words the moment you stop talking. Shit advertising working in quite the way it does at the moment is the moment you change the economic equation for big platforms. So you know something that says you can take your data anywhere in you own. It might actually have quite a big effect ultimately on how smaller outlets could make money from advertising. That's that's wanting to think about another thing to think about is just sort of tax breaks and tax structures. The Post Office used to zero rate newspapers for distribution. They were the first platform high-quality news or new. I'm not sure that I can actually calls you in the eighteen hundreds but the the new people that were trying to get it right trying to get it right or even the people are trying to get it wrong so there was a way of saying we think getting news out to communities is really important. So we're going to give breaks to the organizations that do that another kind of thing that we don't think about anymore. We think we forget. We say this is pure the commercial business. It's not how it started. The other thing is just to have like a center of media policy that acknowledges that the platforms now control the media so all the subject and this isn't just you know the trump administration this goes back to Obama. There has been a real championing of growth in tech of getting rid of restrictions and regulations around the industry to say the Fria. This market is the more good speech will rise to the top CETERA market ideas and it literally the opposite of happened. And you have to say maybe taking some of those rules away so they used to be a role for instance. If you wanted to TV franchise you had to have infrastructure in the area that you're broke into go figure what a crazy idea automatic community. Yes so you could actually just mandate some of this through laws. Tax Breaks structures subsidy hypothecated taxes from the from the platform companies. But you have to. I mean Brian. You can put your finger on it really. Which is you have to have political will to do this. And we've seen in the plans Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren Hints of But it's a very alien policy process for American politics to say we're going to regulate more we're GONNA put more results entity and you know what I also think that big news organizations have a role to play in this and this is not going to go down well with Jeff. Zucker people in the topless. Cnn but honestly if the big media big journalism which is doing well now wants to have a reliable pipeline of stories and people who are not losing trust in their products then they have the we have to figure out how to make some of that kind of wealth and resource transfer as well so you know how big national brands got rid of all of the local papers kind of because they were just too expensive for them to maintain you know what if there was an network kind of response to that. What if something like report for America has more resources lent to it by big organizations that smaller organizations could draw on? This is going to take a lot of imagination from a lot of different organizations but I don't think it can be solved by the market so unless we're prepared to be innovative about how we think about public media across everything you know. This is not just your local newspaper. This is Kinda everything that you see in the information environment unless we can start to acknowledge that this is such a big change that we have no policy and we have no real sort of direction on at the moment. Then I think it will continue to be a disaster. Where we have to think more creatively about this and also in the in the way that it's framed like again if we talk about public media We there'd BE MORE MONEY Republic Media. You're immediately going to gather response. It says that's liberal indoctrination. So what's different to discuss this? Well you said earlier. Nine one one. The police get there making sure. The roads or paved these are all different versions of government. Support that people either. Use or don't use like you hope you don't ever have to use the ambulance service but it's there if we think news more in that way that gets us away from the the mudslinging about liberal conservative media. I also think we've lost things from civic life. Light libraries is not one incompletely kind of passionate about the idea and of course people like go to the library anymore. I have a candle or I don't need. I don't really need those resources. But you know people meeting in spaces and discussing information and news and things like that. I think that's GONNA come back. You know kind of people really now are very isolated. Often they work from home you know. That's rising often. They come from communities. They've moved to communities. They don't know that. Well you know people seek connectivity. Starbuck shouldn't be the third. Space libraries should be the starbucks in Nice to. Maybe maybe there is a way of kind of reconfiguring all of this because people are really beginning to miss it that people of want to find other ways to connect and this is the point about parts shots about civic ownership. Yeah I think there will always be rich parts of the country which can support many many different types of local organization local news. But you know we have to sort of say say say something like the which has been around for a long time which news organizations of traditionally kind of paid into the expectation that you'll have reliable reporting from right around the country in particular style not aimed at a partisan and that does exist to that you have news agencies that sort of come up that have created that kind of history so it's not really just about newspapers it's about that whole ecosystem of which bits. Which bits can we build on? Where can we get the money from? How do we get reporters? And I think that I'll keep saying reporters because I think so much of publishing now is done better and more efficiently by the platforms and that's where people are really kind of engaging so the majority of the American public get some of its news from online sources and social media. So that's a difficult wave to reverse that tied but the reporting is not something that those organizations do so if you can kind of shift the resources from owning presses and trucks rat all of that and printing physical products every week and shifted into having somebody out producing the stories meeting people making reports building archives. That's kind of. I think that's where we're heading with this and that's something that's a benefit for communities benefit for everyone. It's something that's shared which is not so different from the other resources that we pay taxes for and get benefits from. Thank you for being here and having a conversation with Emily Bell. Thanks so much. Thank you Brian. Where can people find you to read more? They can find me. I'm Often Ryan. The Guardian often rush into the Columbia Journalism Review. And I'm on twitter at at Emily Bell. Don't take everything I say very seriously. I have a slightly. My children would say non-serious presence but certainly they can find me down if they want to eat that if you're if you're in journalism and you have seen any of these dull. G. Networks as I say hit me up and the Taus Entity W. C. E. N. T. On twitter as well because we really want to hear if I look out for the Pink Slime Pink Floyd I am I think so much and thanks for tuning in for this week's reliable sources podcast. We will see you on televison this Sunday and every Sunday at eleven. Am Eastern Time on CNN thanks

Brian mcclatchy facebook CNN Google reporter Columbia Journalism School Emily Bell Columbia Journalism Review editor New York Times America The Wall Street Journal Knight Ridder publisher mcclatchy Brian stelter professor Columbia
Meme-Lord Mike Bloomberg

What A Day

17:09 min | 10 months ago

Meme-Lord Mike Bloomberg

"It's Friday February fourteenth. I'm Akilah Hughes. I'm getting resnick. And this is what a day where we got struck by Cupid's Arrow and fell in love with the hustle. Rising Grandma Valentine Dude. Fear on today's show a check in on the state of local media the Bloomberg Campaign. And of course some headlines mcclatchy the publisher of the Sacramento Bee the Kansas City Star the Miami Herald and twenty-seven other Daily News outlets across the country has filed for chapter eleven bankruptcy and is expected to be taken over by a New York based Hedge Fund. And it's not just sad because the print industry is declining. We all look smart when we read the paper. Local journalism provides on the ground contextualized reporting that big national media can miss and also gives direct accountability for people in the communities they serve. We'll get to that in a minute but Akilah what gives all right so top line. Here's what the bankruptcy means. Mcclatchy is going to keep it. Thirty papers afloat while it tries to sort out more than seven hundred million dollars of debt it has racked up about half of that debt could be forgiven through the chapter eleven filing. So that's good but that would still leave hundreds of millions of dollars to account for in the meantime while the court decides whether or not to approve this. Filing mcclatchy secured fifty million dollars in funding to maintain operations. So that's where things currently stand but what we know about where this is going. Well mcclatchy is hoping that they can buy some time sort out debt and come out of this for some background here. The company is one hundred sixty three years old. It's a family owned company. And so far the mcclatchy have been able to weather this digital media storm but now there's a real possibility that this could in the family's control of their business and turn it over to a hedge fund which is currently their top shareholder the news guild which represents about one hundred fifty mcclatchy. Employees isn't really happy about that and make sense yesterday. The President of the union said quote `financialisation of local news will destroy our democracy. So there's the ownership issue and also the overall decline of the industry twenty percent of all newspapers of close in America since two thousand and four in according to Pew Research newspaper. Jobs have been cut in half. Yeah it's a crisis in digital journalism runs newspapers out of town and then digital journalism isn't even sustainable sustainable and stable itself. How did we get here? How did we get to this moment? The obvious thing that changed in the journalism industry is the popularity of the Internet and Internet content. It's cheaper to buy ads online. So these newspapers that could secure annual brand contracts suddenly had to prove that they were worth all of that extra money which is hard to do when you also have a smaller readership than ever So the idea is basically you know. Why would you pay to get the paper when you could just read the news online for free? And since most digital ad on facebook and Google the problem has only gotten worse for local media whether that's print or digital but specifically for mcclatchy their money problems started in two thousand six that was when they bought out a competitor for four point. Five billion dollars that coinciding with the digital journalism boom and also the recession made it. Impossible for them to just break even. Yeah it was like a perfect storm in a way So we hear a lot of vague praised about why local news matters but specifically the truth is that it is an incredibly powerful force in speaking truth to power and also just digging up the good good dirt that you can get As well as sometimes literally the only means by which local governments can be held accountable and in its absence. There's a vacuum that might only be filled with you. Know Telecom conglomerates like sinclair pushed the propaganda type content to local news networks. What are some examples of the work that mcclatchy has pulled off? Yeah I agree with everything you said but between the thirty two papers at mcclatchy has ever owner. They currently have thirty They've won more than eighty Pulitzer prizes and a perfect example of that. Excellent investigative journalism comes from mcclatchy owned Miami Herald so by twenty eighteen. The public had more or less just moved on with their lives and gotten over the very suspicious plea deal Jeffrey. Seen got in two thousand eight and it wasn't until Herald journalist Julie K. Brown dug into the case in a three part series that was called perversion of justice That the story really cracked open. It was brown stories that encourage the FBI to give Epstein a second and third look and it was precisely that reporting reopened investigations into him. His behavior his connection to the rich and powerful all of that stuff so we know how story ended or at least we kinda think we do but it's important to remember how it started because of a local story out of Palm Beach Florida and someone who's just familiar with the area. We're going to keep following the story and what it means for mcclatchy employees because the pension obligations are still up in the air and the future of the papers are uncertain. Please to support your papers as we talk about. The twenty twenty presidential primary there is one name that continues to hang over at all. Despite the fact he is not competing in the first for early voting states so former New York City Mayor Mike Bloomberg has been an immense amount of his money on a massive campaign. Blanketing the airwaves amassing large staff and even investing in a paid meam operation the money and the resulting media attention has led to a rise in the polls and with that more scrutiny over his record particularly troubling policies and statements on race. We've already seen too glaring examples of this in the past week alone. So get in. You WanNa you WanNa go through these. Yeah so the first incidence is probably the most high profile of the week. This was a comment that Bloomberg made in two thousand fifteen in which he was defending. Stop and Frisk policy in New York. That was sort of a hallmark of his time as mayor in the city and it disproportionately targeted people of Color. Here's a clip of those remarks. Murders you a male artist now because the audio sanders recorded underground to be clear. What Bloomberg was saying was quote ninety? Five percent of your murderers murderers and murder victims fit one. Mo You can just take the description xerox it and pass it out to all the cops. They are male minorities. Sixteen to twenty five. That's true in New York. That's true in virtually every city and so pretty fucking races. Yeah but also you know I lived in York at the time and everybody thought it was pretty fucking into He went onto the SCR police tactics by saying quote. We put all the cops in minority neighborhoods. Yes that's true. Why do we do it? Because that's where all the crime is. He was saying later in the clip that the goal was to get guns off the street quote. And the way you get the guns out of the kids hands is to throw them up against the walls and frisk them in a statement following the circulation of the Clip Bloomberg apologized for not cutting back the practice which he had long defended sooner in his term right and just a reminder that a judge ruled that New York City stop and Frisk program was carried out in a manner that violated the constitution Anyway so after this there were additional comments from Bloomberg that resurfaced on Thursday about the housing crisis tells about those. Yeah sure so. Two Thousand Eight. During the height of the Housing Crisis Bloomberg was at this forum where he said that the elimination of discriminatory housing practice of redlining contributed to the collapse. You've made some reference to the elements that led to where we are today. Could could you a little bit deeper and tell us from your perspective? How did we get here? What are the root causes? You can go back. I I would say probably all started back when there was a lot of pressure on banks to make loans to everyone red lining if you remember was the term where banks took whole neighborhoods and said people in these neighborhoods. Poor the not going to be able to pay off their mortgages. Tell them you're salesman. Don't go into those areas and then Congress got involved as local elected officials as well and said Oh. That's not fair. These people should be able to get credit and once you started pushing in that direction. Bank started making more and more loans where the credit of the person buying. The house wasn't as good as you would like okay so just to take a step back. You're really fast. Redlining is a discriminatory practice in which banks denied mortgages to neighborhoods with high populations of people of Color immigrants and those neighborhoods. Were quite literally marked on maps with red lines and not provided investment and that over the years has contributed to the massive racial wealth. Disparities that we have in this country the fair housing act of nineteen sixty eight forty years prior to these comments sought to outlaw. This as not only is what Bloomberg is saying offensive here but it's also factually inaccurate. It's widely understood that predatory loan practices and bank speculation. Were what fueled the financial crisis not undoing. These racist mortgage practices after this Bloomberg campaign pointed to his current plans on housing for increased home ownership But of course this was something that democratic opponents seized on pretty quickly. I mean he's like it's honestly like you shouldn't have a paper trail Oregon audio trail of all of the racist things you believe anyway. Meanwhile even as all of this is happening Bloomberg has been getting a number of coveted endorsements from some moderate members of Congress in swing states like Florida Michigan and from black members of Congress tells about the most recent representatives tobacco. Yes so this week. The endorsements for Bloomberg came from Reps. Lucy Macbeth Gregory meeks and Stacey plaskitt and Macbeth specifically was talking about some of the late career stuff that Bloomberg has done specifically his extensive gun control work. It's obviously a very important issue to her. Specifically because of what happened to her son he was shot and killed by a white man for playing music too loud before she was elected to Congress in another note of context for why these these things are happening. Right now why. These endorsements are coming in sort of an uncertain moment in the Democratic primary as a lot of these folks are looking for a moderate candidate to back so biden may have been the beneficiary of some of these members supporting him but his poll numbers are dropping as Bloomberg's have gone up. So That's another reason why folks might be saying okay. Well maybe we don't love everything that he's about but it seems like he's he's doing well and he could win those poll numbers. Oh could also be attributed to just the amount of money that Bloomberg spending and then the earned media that he's getting off of that money that's being spent and like even when we talk about him here. I'm sort of thinking like are we contributing to this broader goal of just Bloomberg being in the ether all the time but it is worth being skeptical of what could happen next win this guy with the past comments that he's made the fact that he was a former Republican is further scrutinized and has to face these opponents. I'm all right and onto a more ridiculous element of the campaign. We need to talk about the memes. Yeah so this this is like even as I read it again i. I don't believe what I what I'm actually reading. The Times reported that the Bloomberg campaign is working with this company called Me Twenty. Twenty two grown worthy sponsored content on instagram promoting his did work in produced groans. Mean Twenty twenty is headed up by the CEO of Jerry media who you might remember from doing all the marketing of fire fest. That was a noted success. It was a great line on the resume. The accounts of all these these accounts that have done it so far have posted. What OUR BLOOMBERG CAMPAIGN ADS? And they're made to look like direct messages from the candidate himself and they are putrid. If you want to go check out just one man's opinion and in a sign of our dystopia in future health scape the Times quoted the teenager who runs a mean page named at Big Dad. Whip saying quote I would be down. Bread is bread. That would be kind of dope. I could say I helped presidential candidate. Good luck to you. Mr Whip though. Apparently it was a bridge too far for another mean page operator and joke thief the one they call the fat Jewish who cited Bloomberg stop and Frisk policy as one reason. Why he didn't WanNa do it. And why Bloomberg is quote a total. Ho Okay I mean I don't I don't want to shave the teens. Forgetting that cool six grand a month but come on Here's a museum. I want a drink soda and lot of it sometimes. And that's what I remember from Bloomberg he's trying to make us now have a big gulp about that is that I mean if you make data mean if we make it a mean mom Soda Soda Queen. While we'll make that we'll keep an eye on Bloomberg's campaign for you. Know more scrutiny of these past stances and his record as well the effects of this enormous campaign spending on the democratic line. Let's wrap up with some headlines. Head ally Colin Kaepernick announced. He'll be releasing a memoir through a publishing company. He founded Hepburn told USA. Today that the book will cover his decision to start kneeling during the national anthem. Protests of police brutality book is also expected to fill in the gaps in the years since two thousand seventeen when he was unsigned by the. Nfl RE blacklisted Kapernick publishing goal is to create opportunities for black and brown writers who control their narratives as of now the title and release date for his memoir have not yet been confirmed. Interesting the Seattle City Council voted this week to end residential addictions in the winter in an attempt to protect renters from being left homeless during the coldest months of the year some. Us cities have passed laws against evicting tenants and bad weather. But if this law passes Seattle would be the first to instate a months long ban. Seattle's marriage any JERKIN had warned the council against enacting the legislation saying that it would definitely face a lot of legal resistance that didn't stop council members from voting for it seven zero winter addictions in Seattle disproportionately affect women and people of Color Apple announced. It will start paying its retail workers for the time it takes for someone to check their bags before leaving the stores for those of you who have been blessed to have never worked in retail mini stores. Check employees bags the end of their shift to make sure they didn't steal anything awesome usually. It's off the clock. The California Supreme Court ruled that police are still under apple's control while waiting for and during the searches which under State Law Means. They should get compensated for that. Unfortunately this ruling only applies to apple workers within the state of California. But it's great news for the over twelve thousand apple employees involved in the suit. Apple's expected to shell out millions to affected workers which means somebody's getting their pods. Somebody's losing air pods to five minutes after you get them the. Us Men's soccer team is using their salary. Negotiations to call for higher pay for women. Turns out you can't spell goalie without allies. I think you actually can mail. Soccer pros told the. Us Soccer Federation. That players for the women's league should make triple the men's players pay based on the revenue they generate the US. Women's soccer team is wildly popular and has won the past two World Cups. God bless the men's team but they didn't even qualify in the last month a gender discrimination lawsuit brought by the Women Seem Against Federation will go to trial and may people were waiting for. The men seem to break their silence on this lawsuit and now they've done it. I can finally give them a red card. Which of course is what. I call my Valentine's Yes. You are all very welcome and those are the headlines. Ed That's all for today. If you like the show make sure you subscribe Review invite us to a sonic the hedgehog rowdy screening in your town or municipality and tell. Your friends solicit either way. If you're into reading and not just lovingly assembled local newspapers like me. What a day is also a nightly newsletter? Check it out and subscribe at Crooked Dot Com. Slash scribe. I'm Akilah Hughes. I'm Gideon Resnick and have a happy red card day. Which is what I call Valentine's Day. That's my kind of penalty. This is all I'm getting. What a day is a product of crooked media it's recorded and mixed by Charlotte Landis selling a ton is our assistant producer or head writer is John. Milstein and our senior producer came along our theme. Music is by calling Gilead an Kashasa.

Bloomberg Bloomberg Campaign Mike Bloomberg New York Mcclatchy The Times Akilah Hughes Miami Herald Hedge Fund Congress Gideon Resnick Us Apple Sacramento xerox FBI Seattle publisher
Devin Nunes Hit With Internet Justice And Trump Cleans House

The Young Turks

49:58 min | 1 year ago

Devin Nunes Hit With Internet Justice And Trump Cleans House

"If you like the young Turks podcast. I think you'll love a lot of the podcasts on the TRT network old school is one of my favorites. One of the favorites for a lot of the listeners. Please check that out. Subscribe share it and makes a big difference and give it a five star rating. Thank you. Welcome to the young Turks. I'm Ana cast Burien. Jank Uber is not here today, which means that I will be able to talk during the show now, we'll see we'll see poor jank under the bus, John. Either role is here is going. It's going. Well, I'm in a really good mood today. Lots of news to get to. I'm really looking forward to our two. I'm looking forward to our one, of course. But our to make Alhassan and Francesca fiorentina will be here. And we are going to talk about the House Judiciary committee, and how they had a hearing on white supremacists today that hearing was insane. Try to at least. Yeah. More serious than others. It was a roller coaster ride watching it and encountering some of the crazy arguments coming from the right wing. Of course arguments denying that. There is an issue with white supremacy in the country or hate crimes geared toward minority groups we just live in different worlds. Yeah. Howard. You john? Will you just showed me the video is you're gonna play throughout the hour. So not not not gonna anymore. I'm just excited countries. A gigantic joke. Twitter was the worst thing ever invented. And it's just spreading to more and more of our country. Our government is now Twitter. That's all it is. So it's funny that you say the Twitter is the worst thing ever invented. Because you are the king of Twitter. I definitely not the king of Twitter. I get more notifications on my phone from Johns activity on Twitter than any other type of notification vacations because I follow your tweets. So I'll get notified every time. You tweet some tweet a lotta hate myself. All right. The worst place. Okay. So let's let's get started. I don't wanna waste any time. There's a lot to get to. And I want to start off on kind of a lighter note because it's a story on Devon Nunez. And what are we gonna do? That's not how dunking happens, right? I was going to shoot a free throw because see so stupid. It's easy to mock him. Well, you might be wondering why yacht cocaine prostitutes is trending on Twitter that is the hash tag. That is trending on Twitter right now, and it's because of Devon Nunez. Devin newness is now suing McClatchy group. This is a media organization or the umbrella under which multiple media organizations fall under and the reason why he's suing is because of story the Sacramento bee had published a few years ago. So let me give you some more details on this Nunez claimed in Virginia state court that Republican consultant Liz mayor conspired with McClatchy reporter MacKenzie maze to spread smears and falsehoods, including an allegation the congressman quote was involved with cocaine and underage prostitutes during a two thousand fifteen charity yacht party. Now, I read the piece, and that's not what the piece said. But nonetheless, let's hear Devon Nunez whine and cry about how he was allegedly defamed. This is part of the broader cleanup. So remember a few weeks ago, I filed against Twitter that they're they're censoring. Conservatives McClatchy is one of the biggest the worst offenders of this. But we're coming after the rest of them. I think people are just beginning to wake up now that I'm serious. I'm coming to clean up all the mess. So if you're out there, and you lied, and you defamed we're gonna come after you. He's started that statement by mentioning how conservatives are being censored, and he has now filed two separate lawsuits one of which is four hundred fifty million dollars toward Twitter because Twitter is not doing enough to censor like fake accounts, including Devon Nunez cow. Right. Like he was so offended by that that he had to file a lawsuit against Twitter for not for quarter billion dollars. Yeah. Was it? Yeah. For a quarter billion dollars. And then now you have another lawsuit which is targeting GOP strategist, a GOP strategist along with McClatchy group newness claims that the article has a number of false statements such as saying that the alleged event took place at a fundraiser instead of a cruise resulting from charitable donation. Again, I read the piece the piece does mention that this was a cruise for a charity event. And it did not say the Devon Nunez was at this charitable event. It didn't say that he did cocaine or or try to sleep with prostitutes. In fact, I was completely unaware of that story that was published in two thousand fifteen until today when I read about Devin Nunes is. Lawsuit. Then all of a sudden I was like, oh, well is he involved with cocaine and prostitutes what's going on? Right. And I'm guessing that a lot of other people weren't aware of that story until today. Well, if if there had been a story written, you know falsely or not that I had been doing cocaine and sleeping with underage prostitutes. On a charity. Yeah. I would wanna make sure that people knew that that wasn't true that it wasn't a charity. I I was doing okay and sleep with prostitutes on a yacht. That had the result of having been from a fundraiser or whatever so the focusing on the substance there, the thing is look, I also I didn't remember this the two thousand fifteen thing. And so it seems like this is him being ridiculous. Not understanding is that the Streisand effect. Yes. Streisand in fact, push needs to be rebranded as Nunez effect because coming up which en-, by the way. Also, if his overall point is that you can't get traction as a conservative on Twitter. Well, he sort of blown that up. No story about me on a yachts ever. Seventy thousand retweets or whatever. But it's blown up for him. Honestly, though, look, I'm joking obviously because he's a joke in our government's joke in our country's a joke. So he he's messed up here, right because the Streisand effect. Yeah. He didn't want people talking about this. Instead they're talking about us. And so now he is linked perhaps forever with the yacht cocaine thing. And nobody's gonna hurt him. How's it going to hurt him in America in twenty nine hundred show you how it's going to hurt? Okay. Graphic? I I hope you can convince me or the next graphic yacht cocaine prostitutes was trending with nearly seventy thousand tweets posted by ten AM this morning. Many of the tweets appear to be used in a wide variety of context, but many of the most widely circulated tweets named Nunez or tagged his official Twitter account a lot of the word about him just about other yacht cocaine prostitutes who knows I ain't when I'm trying to promote my podcast yacht cocaine prostitutes, and suddenly it's about Nunez know, this about me and my guest. Oh my God again. Okay. So let's say all of that's about him. How is it going to hurt him? Does it hurt his chance of getting reelected if he wants to someday or getting a job as a lobbyist some day or writing a book someday, you're giving speeches someday? How in any way good anything hurt anybody as long as a lot of people are? Talking about it. Well, okay. So you bring up a very Anna like point, which is an angry, and, you know, a focuses on the injustice in American society and politics, and I get you on any other given day. I would fall in your camp. And I would agree with you. And I do agree with you. But for the purpose of I don't know, maybe maintaining our mental stability and some level of happiness. Can we just dunk on him because he drew his joke? You're right. Yeah. He's room to a story that no one was paying attention to the fact that he's he's a professional victim like he has made himself a professional victim. He is spending time energy resources. He's neglecting his own constituents by focusing on this non issue and putting himself in this position of victim who's been wrong. He hasn't been wrong. He's a man in a position of power his constituents need to wake up and realize what he's doing, right and more importantly. Okay. What are the consequences for someone like Devin newness, the fact that he's upset about this doesn't that give you a little bit of if he's upset? I am or one thing that they'd be happy was in reading about this. So the most recent the Octo king prostitutes, I saw that Devin Nunes is cow had tweeted about it. And in that I got to see that because of his efforts to shut down the cow. The cows Twitter account now has like seven hundred thousand followers. It's one of the top five most phone cows in the world now. Why didn't we have that? Why don't we move on? Hold on. Did you just say that? It's he was joking about that part. But yes, it's probably the most followed cow in the world. Isn't that is fun? That's true. It's just like if I like, for instance, if I was Jacob all, and I could I could push Devin Nunes out of the way, and I could be the one that the yacht cocaine prostitutes is about what do you not do that? If I was Candice Owens, would I not want to be the cocaine's prostitutes person. I would want to. Yeah, they all want to. Yeah. They love gravy. They love the attention. I did he is. He is a joke. You're not wrong about that. And professional victim like he's now made himself a man in a position of power who has been elected into office is putting himself in a position of an underprivileged disadvantaged victim. And it's it's amazing, especially when you consider that the Republican party has been pointing fingers at people who have dealt with injustice in the country as. Snowflakes. But who's the real snowflake? You're crying about Devon Nunez's cow on Twitter. I mean, his mum. And oftentimes I do think about how Devon newness would handle doing what we do? Right because it. Yeah. Yes. Because initially when we covered the story about the Twitter lawsuit. I brought up the fact that if I got a tweet from someone claiming to be Anna cast Burien scou- like I would be amused. And then someone created that account. But he did. Yeah. And I was amused. It was funny because the type of stuff we see on Twitter on a regular basis is horrendous. Like, it's way worse than anything that he has mentioned. No, look, there are defamation law. So if he has been defamed by any given entity then he has the right to go after them, but he has to prove damages. He has to prove that it's defamation or proving defamation cases when it has to do with a public figure is a lot more difficult. So look those laws exists, but what he's claiming is defamation is not in fact, defamation and what he's claiming these articles said about him or wrote about him isn't even what's in the article. So I want to give you a statement. From McClatchy a spokesperson says, quote with limited opportunity, we have had to review this. Claim it is wholly without merit. And we stand behind the strong reporting of the Fresno bee. And again, I read it, and it's not what Nunez claims it is. Which is amazing. Also, Liz mayor who is a GOP strategist says the following. She's named in this lawsuit. Free speech means I don't have to be nice to Devin Nunes on Twitter. So why is he suing me, and she also writes, it's vitally important that the entire nation understands what this lawsuit is really about a sitting member of the US government. Specifically, a congressman is trying to stifle free speech. Mine yours and every other Americans by using litigation as a Kudrow to bully and intimidate, and that's absolutely true issues, not wrong and the entire thing. I think shows on the part of the people involved in it a savvy understanding of how the media cycle works. So he says that he's been lied about as you point out. First of all. There's no there's no substance to it. You've read the article they don't claim the things he says they claim. But even if they did like whether he can he doesn't need to actually prove that they lied about him. He can go on Fox News. They'll bring him on to talk about that many people will leave that segment thinking, oh, they lied about him. And if in six months, the court cases thrown out there not even going to remember that it happened. But they are going to believe the Devin Nunes was the victim of the fake news media. Also, Fox News loves having this segment because in general, people leave thinking the media lies about Republicans. And who cares if the court case gets thrown out, he throws a ridiculous price tag on it to make people think. Oh my God. It must be serious. If he thinks he can get one hundred fifty million dollars, of course. And he gets to get on think about how hard it would be to get on Cable News Network because of a piece of legislation that you were proposing. Liz with Warren has new Bill every day. She didn't get brought on MSNBC ABC for that. But if she sued the onion, she probably would know you make a great point. And we are going to talk about some of. Elizabeth Warren's proposals on the show today in the second hour. She has some great solutions that I hope gain some momentum when it comes to affordable housing in America. But you're right. I mean, these types of stunts in these types of tactics do work, they get media attention specifically from Fox News, and they do allow him to position himself as some sort of aggrieved victim, which is desperately what they want. That is what they while complaining about victim the entire time. That's a good point. But what other thing that I want to bring up before we move on from the story is that his lawyers. If you think Devon Nunez is incompetent wait till you hear what his lawyer said. So his lawyers wanted to make the case that that. That McClatchy or mayor. I can't remember. Exactly. Yeah. So they were accusing the GOP operative of using bold font. When it came to the words, Devon cocaine woman in the tweets, right? So the lawsuit includes a picture of the tweet showing three words bolted the accompanying text reads in her tweet maze. Chose to emphasize the words woman Devon cocaine. Okay. So so here's what they did. They did a keyword search and we do a keyword search. The key words are shown in bold. Right. So Twitter doesn't have the option to make font or texts bold. So this is what we're dealing with. These are lawyers. It's it's like it's like an old person complaining like why do I keep getting ED's for rectal dysfunction drugs? That's on how technology works. All right. Well, let's let's move to other. No, you're right. It is fun told you it is fun. You little all right? We'll update on the department of homeland security. Following the forced resignation of Kirstin Nielsen as the head of the department of homeland security. The New York Times is reporting that the Trump administration plans on firing or at least forcing out other individuals within the department government officials who asked not to be identified discussing personnel changes before they were announced said at least two to four more high ranking figures affiliated with Nielsen were expected to leave soon to now behind the scenes as we've spoken about before you have an immigration hard liner, like Stephen Miller, pushing the president to do away with people within the department that he views as hindering Trump's policies or stopping Trump's policies on immigration officials said they expect to see the departures of L Francis. Sista the head of United States citizenship and immigration services, Kathy. Nubile covert one of the top deputies or his top deputies and John Mitnick the department's general council and a senior member of Nielsen's leadership team. Also, the White House is a pressing for the resignation of Clare Grady, the acting deputy secretary who underlaw would normally fill in for Nielsen. So Trump did not want Claire to fill in for Nielsen Trump has already chosen mcallen lean which we talked about yesterday. And so this is interesting because of course, you're going to get some worry from the left, but it appears that there are GOP lawmakers who are not happy with what Trump is doing. And they're very much concerned about. The impact of a Stephen Miller behind the scenes, but before we get to that. I just wanted to get your thoughts on this story. John. Yeah. Look in the case of any of these particular officials. I have no dog in any of these fights for any of them. I'm sure they were awful in their own way. I'm sure they're going to be replaced by somebody's even worse if they're replaced at all because Donald Trump's new MO is to just have acting officials in a lot of these positions. It's simpler for him. He doesn't have to actually showcase their ideologies in front of congress, the people and the elective representatives. Don't get a say, so it works out very well from what bothers me more is what they'll be replaced with as a as a philosophy. So his issue with Nielsen and others were that they weren't tough enough. Well, they're the people that were throwing kids in cages. So in terms of what they were doing. It seems pretty tough. That's not the word I would use. But I think he would what he wants is for them to break the law and Kirsten Neilsen apparently didn't want to do that. I'm not gonna give her much more credit than that. She did throw the kids in cages, but so he is throwing out these people who won't break the law to presumably be replaced by people who will or will at least allow him to. So your interpretation is correct. And this story reminds me of an op-ed that was written by a woman who actually worked with Trump and the Trump foundation for a very long period of time. I apologize. I forget her name, but she talked about how Trump would on a regular basis expect workers to do things that were unlawful, and if they didn't carry out his demands he would retaliate in some way or the other and she recounted this one story where he wanted. The braille taken out of the elevators at Trump Tower, which is a legal. You can't do that you have to have that accessibility for people were blind. And so when one of the workers pushed back on him for refusing to do that he retali-. Aided in some way, or the other. If I can remember the story correctly, but the whole point of that op-ed was two point to the fact that Trump on a regular basis expects the people around him to break laws. He has absolutely no interest in in the rule of law ensuring that he's doing the right thing. He wants people to do what he wants to do. And if they don't follow through they pay the price, and I feel like at this point people who surround him in his administration should be aware of that. And they should stop pretending his if their position of power is like some permanent thing at some point. You're going to cross Trump because he's going to demand something of you that you just can't fulfill because it's illegal to did we cover the story yesterday about the him talking with the border officials and his trip to California, and apparently telling them that if a judge tells you to let these people and tell them, no, there's no room. Just don't do it. I think jank mentioned it. Yeah. Yes. So and then they had to later go to their superiors and say like, you see really ask us to break the law, and they were told no don't do that because you'll have personal. Liability. I think that it shows that his strategy is look I had to easy where we had control of everything. And even then the court sometimes would stop would oppose me. And now, the Democrats are really, you know, they're bothering me. And so I'm done with a biding by the law. I've already long ago bid goodbye to norms traditions and things like that. Now, the law well in particular, whatever courts end up saying about my policies, and so like if he's telling border officials in a public place where their sources that can conceivably leak it that they shouldn't abide by court decisions. I mean, what does he saying in conversations with Stephen Miller when he gets his new team up and running and then they start, you know, family separation two point. Oh, or whatever and a judge fa hopefully fingers crossed strikes it down if we're that lucky. What is he going to stop doing it? I don't why. Why would we believe that at this point? Well, yeah. And you bring up a. Legitimate concern because there is there is reporting indicating the Trump wants to continue the child separation policy and the GOP is starting to push back on that. So I'll give you an example there Senator John Cornyn again, Republican from Texas, and he says, quote one thing that we all agree on now is families ought to be kept together as much as possible. Now, I want to note there has been strong talk from congressional Republicans in the past. And then they're talk usually fizzles out, and they go ahead and support whatever Trump wants to do. So while I might give Senator Cornyn some some credit now talk is cheap. What are you going to do to actually put that talk into action and push back against Trump? If he does continue on with this policy, especially Cornyn who's going to be up for reelection. He's gonna turn against Donald Trump. Also, Senate homeland security committee chairman rob Ron Johnson said he is concerned with the growing leadership. Void within the department tasked with addressing some of the most significant problems facing the nation, and that has been an issue especially with the high turnover in the Trump administration. And then Finally I wanted to mention the head of secret service who was also recently fired. So he was fired. And I want to clarify something that we talked about yesterday. I mentioned that he was fired in response to a woman a Chinese woman getting into mar-a-lago with malware. But that is not why he was pushed out apparently, Mick Mulvaney. The acting chief of staff for the Trump administration had talked to him before that well before that and told him let's start getting ready for you to leave and for a transition to happen. And so another interesting tidbit from the New York Times was that Trump on a regular basis would be rate him. Trump was convinced that as an outsider. Alice was not popular among the agents, the president even made fun of the directors looks calling him Dumbo because of his ears. I mean, we have a child we have a child in office. And I I don't know what else to say about that. It's it's terrifying. It's terrifying. Okay. So wake bipper couple years, actually, maybe not make twenty such a pathetic time. I know it's devastating. We gotta take a break. But when we come back, we are going to do a deep dive into issues, the Democrats and Republicans love to conspire on and they're usually issues that have to do with fiscal policy. We'll this sodas brought to you by GS k. For years, we have relied on antibiotics, but what happens if they stop working and at once treatable infection could be fatal at K. We're one of the few companies continuing to invest in a new generation of antibiotics through our own dedicated team and by working with other scientists because antibiotic resistance isn't a problem of the future. It's already here. Right. Oh, hi dare. Welcome back to an-and John with you member comments. We have Gabby Marito very excited about the the display of hosts today. She says, yes. Yes. I absolutely love it. When Anna gets to host the show. Thank you, first, our Johnny tie and our two with Francesca and Maitha. I don't know how this lineup could get better. Didn't people didn't someone just request that I think it was also Ida as a foreperson power panel. But like they requested that like a day, I go, and they almost got the whole thing. Yeah. We have a pretty I love. I love our hosts I just do the neon. Donkey says wow, Nunez is horribly desperate to stay relevant. Who's funding? This tools frivolous lawsuits. I don't really care. That's a good question. I don't know. I mean, if he's spending his own money on this. Great awesome. I totally reopen. It I don't see how this hurts at all. They're nothing hurts anybody except that. They're not talking about you that is it. All right. John still working to get me in a bad mood. I'm not tamra nine seventeen says Devin Nunes in need of money Herkules says so if they are going to go after people who lie slash slander on Twitter does that include Trump, which is a great point. I mean, he's he lies in. I believe almost every tweet. Obama wire tapped his cellphone member that. Yes, I do. He he accused the former president of committing a crime against him. And then just do just went away. He he claimed that three million undocumented immigrants in America voted for Hillary Clinton. I mean, nothing matters. And I also want to. Mentioned one other thing to you, nor VPN. Interesting so dramatic. We gotta go. We gotta go. Okay. So let's talk about Nord VPN in porn because that's the thing. Did you know that there are lawmakers here in the United States who wanna make it difficult for people to view porn? Now. This has been an ongoing thing in American politics. And so one way that they're trying to do this is by proposing a Bill that would charge people online twenty dollars to access porn each time. They want to access porn. But one way if this passes, which I highly doubt it will. But if it does here's the good news. You have the option of using a VPN like Nord Nord VPN, and what it does is it can. It could totally mislead people about where you're located. So you could be in the United States, but you could use your VPN and make it seem like you're actually in Australia, or whatever wherever you want to be so yeah. Use the URL that you see on the screen right there, nor VPN dot com slash to IT. And you get a giant discount seventy five percent off for three years, and you get the first month free. All right. Twenty dollars at time. I mean, I don't think that Bill is gonna pass like that's an insane Bill. But by the way, like isn't it kind of creepy that there are lawmakers in America right now who are sitting around thinking about our porn viewing habits of through like you fix other issues that need fixing Grizz love money. Oh, you know, we're gonna pay for the green new deal. Anything prevented on sell? You will find a way to get that porn for? You're crazy. Moving onto other news stories. Congressional Democrats are looking to investigate pharmaceutical companies to think you're out what it is that leads them to price drugs at insanely high prices and Representative Elijah Cummings happens to be one of the Democrats in congress who is leading the charge on this very issue. Now, here's where things get a little tricky. Congressional Republicans are encouraging these pharmaceutical companies to avoid cooperating with any type of requests coming from Democrats or any type of investigation that they might pursue. So let me give you the details on who's going after the congressional Democrats on this. Remember, congressional Democrats in this case are doing the right thing. They want to ensure that pharmaceutical drug prices aren't priced at at. Given prices that Americans can't afford. So Republicans on the house oversight committee sent letters to a dozen CEOs of major drug companies warning that information they provide to the committee could be leaked to the public by democrat or democrat democratic chair Elijah Cummings in an effort to tank their stock prices. So they're going to the pharmaceutical companies saying do not cooperate because if you do cooperate there is some chance that Elisha copies. We don't have any evidence of this. I mean, we're just speculating, but there is some chance that he might leak information to the public that could negatively impact your stock prices. First of all. For the sake of this conversation. Let's just give them that argument. And pretend as if there is some merit behind that argument, which by the way, there isn't there completely speculating, and there's no reason to believe this argument. But let's say we give them that argument and say that they're not lying. Okay. So what so what so you're saying that the stock prices of pharmaceutical companies are much more important than ensuring that the American people have access to affordable drugs. They need your disgusting. Okay. If you believe in that argument, you're the problem. You should not be representing the American people. Let me give you more details in their letters representatives. Jim, Jordan and Mark meadows. These are the Republicans that we should be looking at to replace with people who actually want to represent the best interests of Americans just putting their names out there. Leaders of the hardline conservative house freedom caucus, right? The Cummings of seeking sensitive information that could likely. Harm the competitiveness of your company if disclosed publicly so that's what they're alleging and my favorite part about all of this is at some point in their letter. They say like, we're not we're not trying to speculate or anything we're not trying to. But that's exactly what they're doing. They then accused Cummings of releasing cherry picked. I'm sorry. They then accused Cummings of releasing cherry picked excerpts from a highly sensitive closed-door interview conducted in an investigation into White House security clearances so John jump in. So I don't know if they lead to anything from that, it's not directly related to this. But whatever what I think is interesting about this. First of all, you're right. They are siding with the pharmaceutical companies rather than the people who actually are going to have to purchase these products which implies that they believe that their electoral future is better secured by having those CEO's on their side than the actual voters. Many of whom are going to have to buy this medication. But what I actually love about. This is that there seems to be Greenman like we didn't see the reply from the pharmaceutical companies. But I mean, they put Jordan and meadows there to represent their interests, and Jordan and meadows seeming to believe that if people know what these companies are charging that by its very nature. We'll take their stock prices. And I think that that's amazing. It is you should price your products at a level where if people do the price your company wouldn't go under I think. Yeah. And so the reason why the stories so important look there are a number of issues where you have Democrats and Republicans working together against the best interests of Americans. But in this case, congressional Democrats led by Representative Elijah Cummings are doing the right thing. They're trying to figure out why it is that Americans pay so much more for these drugs. They want to do something to stop this type of greed coming from the drug companies they want to do this investigation. They want to have these hearings, and then you have Republicans fighting tooth and nail to prevent that from happening. So again, they are not looking for the best interests of Americans, Jim, Jordan and meadows. They are not looking out for their constituents. They're not looking out to ensure that we have access to. Affordable pharmaceutical drugs, they're looking out for the best interest of these drug companies, and they wanna make sure that their stock value remains high, and I hope that you're right that in the in the end Elijah Cummings, and the others would actually support legislation that would help bring down these prices as of right now, we're not even there. This is just a transparency, this is just disclosure finding out some basic information, and even that is unacceptable to these companies, and their, you know, their chosen champions in congress now throughout this story. I've implied that both Jordan and meadows are lying about the intentions of Representative Cummings. And I have a good reason to believe that. And I'll give you one example. So for instance, the letter that they wrote to the pharmaceutical company quotes Cummings as saying of his drug team. If you follow the headlines, we have already seen the impact they have had on stock prices with regard to drugs. I mean, it has been astronaut Michael the letter amidst though, the rest of the sentence where coming says saving the tax payers money. In fact, we have the full context of the video for you right now. So let's take a look. Abusive significant because we are saving a lot of money. A lot of people we have three people congressman want myself. I call them to drug team, and what they deal with is the high price of prescription drugs. If you follow headlines, we've already seen the impact that they have had three people free people have had on stock prices with regard to drugs. I mean is it has been astronomical saving the taxpayers money. But that's saving the taxpayers while be convincing them. Well, why would they the only reason why they would emit that part of the sentence is because what Elijah Cummings is trying to do is saving the tax payers money, and Jim Jordan and Representative meadows have no interest in revealing not to people they love to fear monger. They love to make it appear as if they're the ones who are looking out for Americans and their best interest. But that is never the case. They are this is the worst kind of obstruction this is encouraging corporations and pharmaceutical companies to avoid cooperating with congressional lawmakers it's out of control, and this this should be a huge story that every media organization talks about as if it's the Muller investigation. Right. Like, this is what everyone. Shouldn't be talking about. Because this is the kind of stuff that actually works against us on a regular basis that happens on a regular basis, but it barely gets any attention. Thankfully, you have people. Like like Bernie Sanders. He has a plan to bring down these prices. I had Representative Jamie Raskin on the damage Puerta talk about it to bring them down to the same price. As the drugs are offered by the same companies in countries in Europe, for instance, and those sorts of plans are received as if they're radical. I mean, that's not what's radical radical is like a regular person sees this interaction between comings, and and the people who were there just to protect the pharmaceutical companies that leads one to wonder why are profit-seeking companies setting the prices for these life saving medications. Why are they getting to determine the prices in the first place? It's insane. It's obviously resulting in fewer people having access to this medication. It's obviously resulting in worse healthcare outcomes and deaths as well Bernie Sanders pitched as a radical is very much a moderate on this issue, a fundamental trans. For mation of that entire industry. That's a little bit more radical. And if people don't get the more moderate result. I think that a lot of people are gonna start to be more curious about the more radical forms. I would love that. And maybe we'll see that. All right. Well, we gotta take a break when we come back. We will get to the story that I had promised earlier. There are some issues weren't Democrats and Republicans are working together against our best interests. I'll give you that story and more when we return we hope you're enjoying this free clip from the young Turks. If you wanna get the whole show and more Seuss of content while supporting independent media become a member TY T dot com slash joined today. In the meantime, enjoy this free sex. Hey, guys. Welcome back to TYP an-and, John with you. I wanna tell you a little bit about YouTube membership because it is a way for you to get an enhanced experience on YouTube. So for instance, there are host emojis, which I finally got a chance to take a look at and they're cool. They're pretty cool. And also, you get to take part in the chat without all the trolls involved, unless the trolls also by YouTube membership for I believe it's about five bucks, which when they when trolls pay to get in our comments that triggers me a lot. So they shouldn't. Yeah. Me too. It's really fast. It's really bad. And I cry liberal to your so don't do that as my feelings when trolls pay to support the show troll us. They don't do. So please don't do that. Anyway. So if you're interested in joining you will see a little joined button right next to our videos right underneath them. So it's right there. You can see it. Aero just click on that goes through the process, and you can become a member. So it's it's cool. It's just an enhanced way of being a Twitter user, and you can interact in a different way. Also, I want to read a few TY T lives. But while I look for some TY T lives. John. Why don't you tell everybody where they can find the show that you do? Oh, well, I do shows one of them is the damage report. You should watch it. You should watch it every morning actually because it's live one hour every morning. It's ten to eleven our time. And you know, it's whatever your time where Pacific what are you? What are you like eastern you like mountain central? Maybe. Okay. Well, you can figure it out. There's Google it and you can figure it out. No. It's a fun show. We break down the news. We have a couple of guests on today. We had an author on it was talking about the the new wave of conspiracy theorists, which are basically people talk about conspiracies, but don't have any theories, which was fun. And we had one of the organizers who helped write the green new deal for. Alexandra Costa Cortez was on a break down the green new deal, and how it's going to help to shape the democratic primary going forward, and we just had a lot of fun. We talked about news from around the world today. It's fun show. He's check it out. Youtube dot com slash the damage report. Facebook dot com slash the damage fourteen white t it's confusing. Don't get mixed up because it'll send you to porn. I'm kidding. It doesn't do that. But just you get the right one because it a waist. Okay. Second stop talking. Good. I was buying time for your day. And I've been good. Okay. So member Twitter's member comments Dolores has right out in the open corruption continues who will stop them us us. We have to stop them. So the corruption continues because voters have allowed it to continue. I think that it's time for us to advocate for ourselves. And see what are lawmakers are up to? And I'm seeing way more political engagement today than ever before. So that's a good sign, but we can't rely on mainstream media to draw attention to these stories, and I'm specifically referring to the pharmaceutical drug story that we spoke about in the last segment we need to find independent sources of media. We need to look at our lawmakers and what they're voting on how they're voting right? Look into their record who cares of who cares. Whether or not that person seems to be nice or is someone you'd want to have a beer with. That's old school politics. We're hopefully moving away from that. And looking at the actions of our politicians rather than you know, whatever cult of personality, they've built pants status zero says, Anna, lawmakers are not paid to get things done. I hear you. I mean, it seems like they're not getting things done because they haven't and we need to hold them accountable. You know, we need to make sure that we elect the right people. And as soon as we realized that we haven't elect them out and by the way, run run, if you're not a public figure awesome, go run. You don't have. You're not a target rich environment. So you can go out there and represent your community the way that we're seeing some of these freshmen Democrats do in the house, and it's really inspiring. Denise says, what's radical is believing? It's okay for people to die in the streets. When they are citizens of the richest country in the world, just my two cents. Couldn't agree more. All right. Well, let's move onto some other news. Both Democrats and Republicans in congress are working together in order to ban the IRS from offering a free tax filing service. And the reason why they're doing this is because into it and or Intuit and turbo tax are spending a ton of money lobbying congressional leaders to avoid allowing the IRS from offering the service. So the House Ways and means committee led by Representative Richard Neal, who's a democrat from Massachusetts passed the tax payer. I act a wide ranging Bill making several administrative changes to the IRS that is sponsored by representatives. John Lewis from Georgia Democrat and Mike Kelly, a Republican from Pennsylvania. So I'm mentioning the political affiliations here because this is a terrible terrible piece of legislation that again, both democrat. Republicans are in cahoots on because they are being funded by the very companies that want to continue making a profit from offering tax filing services in one of its provisions. The Bill makes it illegal for the IRS to create its own online system of tax filing companies like Intuit the maker of turbo tax and h in our block have lobbied for years to block the IRS from creating such a system if the tax agency created its own program, which would be similar to programs other developed countries have it would threaten the industry's profits. In fact, the industry has made that clear themselves, and I want to give you their statement. So there's the free file alliance, which is an all of these companies group grouping together and fighting to ban the IRS from doing this. They released a statement saying developing software or other systems to facilitate tax return preparation. Maeve present a continued competitive threat to our business for the foreseeable future. The idea. It makes me. So angry because there are some people you have to file your taxes. There's no getting around that. And for some people it really is a financial burden to do. So it can get very expensive, especially if you're a freelancer, and you have several ten ninety nine when you file your taxes, you usually end up paying way more because of the fact that you have all those tax documents that they have to input into the system now. Turbo tax will will argue. Well, we have a free filing service as well. In fact, they do advertise it to some extent like this kind of ad. Free. Three. Free. That's right. Turbo. Tax free is free free free free free. But there is a very legitimate argument that what really happens is you sign on. And you try to take advantage of the free services they offer. And it's nothing more than trying to upsell you and make you spend even more money on filing your taxes, and that is a legitimate concern because I've experienced it firsthand. So real quick, John. I just want to mention how much these companies have spent on lobbying. And then I want to get your thoughts so into it and ancient are blocked last year alone. Porta combine six point six million dollars into lobbying related to the IRS filing deal and other issues meal who became ways and means chair this year after Democrats to control the house received sixteen thousand dollars in contributions from Intuit and in our block in the last two election cycles, and how pathetic is that? Like it. I can't speak for any individual politician. But it's not crazy to think that they were influenced by this money. They got sixteen thousand dollars is nothing over two election cycles that is nothing how cheap can you be bought very? And so look I had also I didn't realize that you were gonna show some of that. So I looked into their donations that everything to and it is true that they donate to Republicans and Democrats, although not necessarily all types of Democrats, there were Democrats, including ASEAN, Katie hill for speaking out against this. They ended up supporting the Bill because there are other things in the Bill that are really good. And they said they weren't willing to jettison. Those just because this was in it, but I did notice to democratic senators would receive the most money from Intuit's specifically, I don't know about H and R block, can can you guess either of them to Democrats? Obviously this information is over the past few years. But I don't know. I only mentioned it because it's kind of funny, but it's a mansion Heitkamp. Oh. And the thing is even for them. These are not congressman these are senators it is pathetically low amount of money. It doesn't take much that. I think that's an important. Takeaway from the story politicians can be bought at a very cheap price, and they're willing to sell out their constituents in some cases when it comes to issues like this. And this is this might seem like a small issue. But for me, it's not it's it's indicative of a larger problem. So oftentimes, we criticize establishment Democrats. We'll have the establishment hit us back with your dividing the party, you know, you're problematic. But but here's the thing. You guys are doing it to yourselves, right? I mean, no one's forcing you to work with Republicans on. On banning the IRS from offering a free tax filing service. You're doing it yourself because you decided to accept that money, and that money is more important to you than the American people and more important than being able to go to the American people and say, hey, look when you're going to do your taxes, we've provided a free service for you. Now, there were a lot of high valued lobbyists who are pushing against us. But we did it for you. That's what we did. They didn't value that that as much as they valued sixteen thousand dollars, and it's such a pathetic amount of money because it's an issue that they don't think that people will actually pay attention to. And unfortunately, it might be right. When really I'm glad that we're covering this because it raises more fundamental questions. Like, why are we filing our taxes in the first place? I know some people need to they've complicated. Investments they own a lot of property. They work as independent contractors, whatever there are people who have complicated returns. But for the vast majority of working Americans, the federal government already has all the information necessary to process all of this. There's no reason why. We should have to be involved in it at all. So there's the money aspect, you know, the paying fifty or one hundred dollars or whatever you pay one hundred dollars a year, my girlfriend gets her taxes done by a professional as she's responsible. She pays more. There's also the time and the stress and so much of it can be automated a lot of countries have automated returns for a wide range of simple returns. At a lot of people have both ideas, John they are. I never even considered bold. Why why are the only things that are automated that like if I ever say a thing in front of Alexa. I'll get ads about it for the rest of my life. Why can't lie signing up to vote or doing my tax? Why can't that be automated? Why don't we get anything from technology? Yeah. Yeah. I like that point. Thank you. You should talk about that on damage report. I will where can people find damage reporting it the internet? Come on YouTube dot com slash the damage report. Okay. Yeah. Awesome. All right. Thank you, John for hosting me, and our one in our to we're going to get an awesome, panel, franchesca, fear, fear and tina's here. And so as Maitha Alhassan stick around because we have some awesome stories, including the House Judiciary committee and the hearing that they had on white nationalism in America. In addition to Elizabeth Warren's new proposal on affordable housing, come right back.

Twitter Senator John Cornyn Democrats Devon Nunez cocaine Devin Nunes Donald Trump GOP congressman America McClatchy congress United States Representative Elijah Cummings Liz mayor Anna Burien IRS president
B.C. Manhunt: The unanswered questions

This is Why

21:28 min | 1 year ago

B.C. Manhunt: The unanswered questions

"What do you think of when i say the nineteen ninety s grunge music friends. We all remember that. What you might not remember is that sixty one million people were using pagers and smartphones didn't exist. I'm cathy zora on my new podcast history of the nineties we go inside the stories that defined a decade decade from nine to one zero to the long island lolita. Listen for free to history of the nineties on apple podcasts spotify or wherever you find your favorite podcast cast hey before we begin. I want to let you know about a new show from curious cast that i think you might be into it's called russia. Rising putin's russia has been accused of using internet trolls hackers and even assassins to influence the west. This new investigative podcast hopes to unravel the giant giant mystery that is russia with the help of those who know her best russian trolls hackers putin supporters and even a former k._g._b. Spy bye join global news europe bureau chief jeff simple on a journey to find out how russia has gone from tenuous ally to a potential global threat listen to russia rising for free at curious cast dot c._a. Or wherever you're enjoying this is why the manhunt for two teens suspected and charged with murder is over but does that mean closure for the countless people involved involved. There's certainly tons of questions that remain unanswered and likely will remain unanswered forever. I'm nikki right meyer and this is why on wednesday august august seventh. We heard the news from the r._c._m._p. This morning at approximately ten a._m. R._c._m._p. Officers located to male bodies in the dense brush rush within one kilometer from where the items were found. This is approximately eight kilometers from where the burnt vehicle was located at this time we believe these are the bodies of the two suspects wanted in connection with the homicides in british columbia. An autopsy is being scheduled in winnipeg to confirm their identities entities and to determine their cause of death up near gillam in northern manitoba r._c._m._p. Officers found two bodies near the shoreline. Oh and the nelson river diana fox all is a reporter for global news in winnipeg. Now police are very confident that these two bodies are those was of these suspects wanted for a string of murders in b._c. Brirish miguel's he and cam mccloud so this all happened about ten in the morning. We're told by assistant commissioner jane mcclatchy mcclatchy that she got a call right around then saying they found this and kind of everything went into motion from there so things started rolling the victims families were contacted. <hes> <hes> the suspects families were contacted and then at two o'clock yesterday afternoon here in winnipeg they held a press conference to make that announcement some of the first photos that we started to see in the hours following that press conference where images of two planes on a tarmac in winnipeg with boxes being offloaded yes and getting those bodies chew. The airport down to winnipeg was no easy task so again. He's bodies were discovered around ten a._m. <hes> according to my colleague joe kelley who was up and gillam it took about ten hours to get these bodies to the airport in gillam they had to be transported by boat from where they were found to a loading dock and then they were driven to the airport and each <hes> sort of metal coffin as it looked like from a distance was replaced in one plane so each body had its own plane. Those planes landed in winnipeg late last night and now those autopsies are being done so we we expect to have confidence confirmation of identity hopefully a cause of death and they know something else that people are thinking of is the time line so the last confirmed sighting of the chew suspects was july twenty seconds so that's over two weeks ago. <hes> i know some people are wondering certainly what happens but maybe when do these two amend if they are indeed the suspects. When did they die. What what's kind of what happened between july twenty second and now do we have any more information and yet as to how these suspects may have died no and that's certainly the first thing it's on everyone's minds was it sort of violent acts between between the two of them did they both sort of perhaps designed to kill themselves was an animal was at starvation. Was it just coming to the elements. We don't know we did ask mr mr jane mcclatchy that yesterday but she was very tight lipped as ours e._m._p. Have been throat this investigation for them to say that they're very confident. That is the two bodies of the suspects. Yesterday they <hes> they really haven't said much throughout the past couple of weeks without being one hundred percent certain or very very near that so we do not yet know unfortunately unfortunately how these two men passed away. Two bodies have been found. We are assuming that they are the bodies of these two suspects. These two murder suspects to some degree that does hint at closure. The story has come to some conclusion but overall with a broad brush. We can't say that everyone uninvolved does have or will ever have full closure can we. You're absolutely right nikki. <hes> i mean we say closures in the manhunt is over ver- and certainly well while police may be saying the man had his over <hes> certainly tons of questions remain unanswered likely will remain unanswered forever ever. We don't know a motive. We don't know what happened and we may never know those things but certainly for the families of the victims they have to deal with this for the rest of their lives same for the families of the suspects. If the suspects already dead as police believe they are they're going to have to deal with for the rest of their lives. <hes> for the residents of communities. He's up north gillam york landing fox lake cremation. The large police presence over the manhunt is over but again having your community turned upside down for her more than she weeks now and just kind of having to lock your doors and be on high alert at all times when you're used to just having a very welcoming atmosphere and being outside all the time i and not locking your doors. That's gonna take a while to recover from so you're right to say that. Closure has been achieved not quite in this case. The manhunt is over but certainly certainly the lingering effects from this case will be felt by many many people for quite some time to come <music> closure such an interesting concept. It's still seems so far away for so many people that were affected by this story entire communities like paul bernie where ken macleod and brirish miguel skier from or gillam manitoba a town of just twelve hundred people that suddenly and unexpectedly and unwanted louis became ground zero for their manhunt. John mccomb is the morning show host on nine eighty c k n w in vancouver and he spoke with the mayor of guillem joining the on the phone now is the mayor of gillam manitoba dwayne foreman and mayor. We appreciate your time very much. Of course. I thank you so much for joining us no problem when this news came out. I can imagine that the the entire town just just breathe a sigh of relief. Tell us what this development is is meant for your town. I think it's exactly that that unity can finally just put their shoulders back and not have such a high stress points on themselves a worrying about whether the two suspects are in the lush anymore in the area so thankfully clearly. We have kosher on that before. The police showed up before these two suspects showed up. What was what was life like in gillam. Gilman is just a small knit community community. Everybody knows everybody. We don't even need facebook. We just know what's happening in the community. It's a great great town. <hes> i grew up here. Lots people have coming on but over the years have gained a lot of good friends and when we travel down to the winnipeg area twelve hundred kilometers there's away you always run into someone that has been to kill him. So one of those community are kind of has a kevin bacon kind of feel to it wherever you go six degrees of of gillam manitoba. I guess it's a place where everybody everybody not not. Everybody and i guess everybody must help out. Everybody and it's a place where <hes> we kept hearing over and over that <hes> you know you don't lock your doors worried about anybody breaking in and that all of a sudden goes away and the town is now <hes>. They're more r._c._m._p. And military guys and you can count what was that like for you as the mayor it was very different from us to walk outside and seeing in kids play and families walking and <hes> for the first few days almost like a ghost town to me. Hardly anyone out note of their houses. Everyone kind of locked themselves in it was <hes> it was not the normal guillemette is used to but understandably so everybody's gonna protect themselves themselves and their family and that's what i wanted. I wanted everybody to make sure that the insured their safety so <hes> it was different for myself but <hes> ah understandable situation that had described for me a little bit about where the two bodies were found because i'm i'm hearing that it is. Is you know we talk about the bush. You know i was in the bush but this is this is really dense stuff. This is the bush bush yeah uh-huh <hes> you can take a joke that <hes> i said my friend in the tree like he could probably walk in ten feet with an orange jacket on and you wouldn't see them ak- it's it's very thick trees out here bush line. It's not your everyday bush. It's the cup here and there's marsh and rough terrain. It was a rough off-track for all the r._c. Members that we're doing everything they could to find these individuals and super proud of is it true that the the bugs in gillam of the mosquitoes who the size of your fist. Oh my god no i i joke but they are pretty big. Aren't they pretty big. We use that shirts that sold in in the community that had <hes> mosquitoes and it was basically took up the size of your shirt kid uh-huh starting small little human a big big unless you have a really tiny fist. I guess yeah yeah well. It's it's good to hear you be able to laugh and joke about after <hes> what your town of <hes> have been through and hopefully life. I can get back to being a little bit more normal now. I sure hope so. I think it'll turn you're gonna turn quite. You're coming coming up later. In this episode hearing stories like this in the news stories that are this emotionally provoking. What toll does that take on your mental health. You're listening to this is why a national radio show and podcast from global news the r._c._m._p. Held a press conference to announce the news. The manhunt was over. Two bodies believed to be the suspects had been found in dense brush about a kilometer away from the nelson river in manitoba atta. Toba finally said there was a bit of relief for the people in gillam the town that has become ground zero for the manhunt. There's obviously a certain amount of relief that we were able to locate these people and and hopefully bring some closure not only to the victims of homicides but to the people of guillem fox like creation when you're landing ilford warlike nature it's it's it's huge to be able to hopefully give some people an opportunity to exhale and hopefully fli eventually go back to normal and not being afraid of who's out in the woods anymore but a story like this one can affect more than just the people directly involved it can affect everyone people just like you and i who hear about it in the news so i decided to call up an expert to see what toll bad bad news can have on our mental health. My name is dr nabli motive among clinical psychologist in winnipeg manitoba and an assistant professor ah at the university of manitoba so with stories like this one stories that have affected not not just one province but essentially the whole country. I imagine there's a lot of people who have been affected by this news. The news is that it's three people were murdered in british columbia then the news that a man hunt was taking place across the country and now the news that the two suspects have been found dead. What do we normally see coming out of events like this. When it comes to the emotions that people feel all i think in the days following difficult events like this <hes> individuals who have been affected by this news or live in affected communities entities might experience a really broad and diverse range of reactions <hes> some of these reactions might include <hes> thinking a lot about at the event in the following day's or feeling a bit more on edge than usual having disrupted sweep and experiencing difficult colt feelings like anger or anxiety or sadness <hes> and it's important to remember that any all of these reactions are okay and often form a part of the process of processing and making sense of what happened <hes> for some individuals who have have been previously affected by certain trauma these kinds of events might serve as triggers or strong reminders and bring up some difficult feelings and i think it's important to remember that for most people who experience or learn about traumatic events of these reactions will will decrease and go away eventually after a few days <hes> and it's if they persist or don't dissipate or even begin to worsen <hes> that it can be a sign that maybe seeking the help of a mental health professional like a clinical psychologist could really help to work through some of what i imagined with the way the technology works nowadays that it can be really hard to remove ourselves from these types of news stories. It's so easy to go down a rabbit hole when you hear about something like this in the news and just keep searching up more stories on your phone and looking and looking and looking on the computer in reading more information it must be very hard for some people to disconnect and get away from that news but i imagine that's probably also very important to do so hi think being able to check in with yourself and self monitor about kind of when this information is starting to become come overwhelming affect you more than you'd like it to and kind of offsetting this information and this news and social media <hes> and other platforms <hes> with kind of other really simple things that can help with the collective recovery process so so social support for example a really strong protective factor and checking in with one another about how they're doing about this or feeling about this can be really helpful. <hes> sticking to routine <hes> can be <hes> really important so carrying on with daily and planned activities and such <hes> because sometimes when we're feeling strong emotions we might have the urge to retreat or isolate or avoid <hes> and these can actually prolong <hes> <hes> some of these reactions and keep them going <hes> so kind of sticking to kind of as normal routine as possible can be helpful and then then <hes> you know these might be <hes> especially in these first few days a time where a bit more <hes> self care <hes> is needed <hes> which can include things like making sure you're eating at regular times and getting exercise and physical activity or an a good night's sleep engaging in relaxing activities etc thinking back to studying psychology in school. I'm reminded of all the different tricks tricks that our mind can play on us especially when you hear of events like this and one term that pops to my memory is is availability heuristic this tendency to overestimate the likelihood of an event because it's so relevant relevant in our mind at the time i think the example my professor gave me was with the shark attacks. We hear about them in hollywood so we think that the likelihood of of them happening is so much greater than it actually is. I imagine that with stories like this when we are bombarded day in and day out with the news of two potential chill serial killers on the loose that must increase people's fears and their perception that this more normal than it actually is yeah i i think you're right and i think that that <hes> can lead to increased fear anxiety of for some people <hes> <hes> and so i think in those moments when we're having thoughts about how you know the these events appear to be really common and occurring frequently it's important to remember the exceptions i and to look at things like actual statistics and and <hes> the good things that don't always make good news <hes> but that happens day in and day out all the time just as kind of a balance and check for ourselves of that just because events like these are so prominent in the news and in the media <hes> doesn't mean that they are likely doesn't mean that they're happening a lot and so it kind of helps us check into this idea of <hes> events ants being yes <hes> possible <hes> but but unlikely <hes> and kind of rejigging that i self since we've been talking about mental health in the way that news stories like the man hunt story can affect us. I wanna make sure that i list for do a few options available to find mental health services in your area so i if you live in manitoba and you're listening to this. There are mental health services services that you can reach out to if you want to go to the website c. p. m. b. dot c._a. The government of canada has a whole web page designed to help people find find mental health services in their area for people in other provinces. Kids can call the kids help phone at one eight. Hundred six six eight six eight six eight and for first nations and inuit peoples contact hope for wellness at one eight five two four two three three ten and this is why is produced by john o'dowd and mean icky reitmaier. It's a national radio shows wells a podcast. You can download subscribe or listen on apple podcast google podcasts spotify or wherever you get your favorite podcasts from give us a rating and review you can also email us. This is why curious cast dot c._a. Or follow me on twitter nikki and i underscore right meyer our i._t. Not m. a. y. E. r. thanks for listening and i'll talk to you next week.

gillam winnipeg manitoba murder russia jane mcclatchy mcclatchy nelson river apple bush spotify columbia gillam york putin europe cathy zora meyer joe kelley john o'dowd university of manitoba
Poets We Lost in 2018

Poetry Off The Shelf

00:00 sec | 2 years ago

Poets We Lost in 2018

"Donald hall deduct Shangai Donald Allen. This is poetry off the shelf from the poetry foundation. I'm Curtis this week, the poets we lost in two thousand eighteen. Kayla cuevas. On this podcast. We've been marking the individ- here by remembering some of the poets who died during the year. We can't feature them all but we're going to hear from three of them on this Meena Alexander. Lucie. Brock Brueghel and j d McClatchy. In addition to be an appellate JD McClatchy was a critic eleborate British and an influential teacher, he was also an editor. And one of his projects was a series called the voice of the poet these were small books featuring individuals twentieth century poets like Robert Lowell and Adron rich, and they were packaged with an audio cassettes and later with a CD of archival recordings oddly enough, the poetry foundation, never recorded, McClatchy himself, reading his poems. I had to dig around online to find this recording. The emperor Augustus has favorite poet was Horace whom he to he gave everything to Horace that Horace wanted Harz was smart enough not to one very much. This is from a reading McClatchy gave in nineteen Ninety-three at the library of congress. The first thing he read was his version of a poem by the Roman poet Horace. This is just an instance of literary theft. Something writers do. Better than they do other things. The poem is a very famous poem in Latin intimidates of Venus, which the poet says that he's getting to be fifty years old, and he tells Venus and love to go on someone else that he's given up on love. Go finder wonderful portrait of a kind of yuppie lawyer in Rome, the days, go go to the young man down the road who can afford you. This is just a a contemporary version of this famous poem. And I think. No one in this room needs to be reminded that GMT's Stanford gin and tonic. It's cold late night owed. It's over love. Look at me pushing fifty now hair like grave grass growing in both ears the piles and boggy prostate the hanged man's penis. The sour taste of each days. I lie and that recurrent dream of years ago. Pulling swaying bead chain of moonlight of slipping between the cool sheets of dark along a body like my own, but blameless. What good's might cut glass conversation? Now. Now, I'm so effortlessly Bulger and said you get from life, which you can shake from it for me. It's Jian tease all day and CNN. Try the blonde boy chick lawyer entry level at eighty grand who pouts about the overtime keeps avion and a beeper in his locker at the gym and hash in tin foil. Under the office fern. There's your hound from heaven with buccaneer. Curls and perfumed warpaint on his nipples, his answering machine always has room for one more slurred embarrassed coal from you know, who. Some nights. I've laughed so hard the tears won't stop look at me. Now why? Now, I long ago gave up pretending to believe anyone's memory will give as good as it gets. So why these stubborn tears? And why do I dream almost every night of holding you again, or at least of diving after you my long gone through the bruised unbalanced waves. That was j d McClatchy reading at the library of congress in nineteen ninety three. You can listen to the whole recording and lots of other very historic recordings on the library of Congress's website. Lucie. Brock Brueghel also died this year. She was fairly young only sixty one years old. She went said that quote, a poem is troubled into it's making. It's not a thing that blooms it's a thing that wounds and her poems bear that out. Lucie. Brock ROY toe had one of the most memorable voices I've ever had the pleasure of recording in one thousand nine hundred sixty eight in Pittsburgh. My father died of a massive cardiac event that happened out of the blue. He was very young my sister. And I were extremely young. And it was a devastating event meteors Leonard twenty twelve Brock Brueghel had a palm and poetry magazine that starts with her father's early death. It's called father in drawer. And this is how she introduced it for us on tape. My sister, and I both have the last photograph of my father. He's young handsome. He's holding pipe and she keeps this photograph propped on her kitchen counter in Bethesda, Maryland. And with her small children kept being bumped off and going to the floor and one day. She called me to tell me she had put we called him daddy that she had put this photograph in an obscure utensil drawer, and that every time that she opened this drawer. She said. There was daddy. That was what occasioned the poem. But once it began to be written, it became much, more formal and much darker. Here's the poll, which takes place in nineteen sixties, Pittsburgh and mentioned some of the then toxic rivers that flowed through that city father in drawer. Mouthful of earth hair half a century silvering who buried him with what make a fist for heart that is decisive. It also directives from our DNA. The nature of his wound was the clock Sakata winding down. He wound down July that pit humid sales of sailboats swelled yellow boxes of cigars from Cuba. Plumped? Ring fingers fattened for spell barges of coal bloomed in heat. It was when the catfish with the only fish left living in the Mananga healer river. Though, there were they swore. No angels left. One was still bound in the very drawer of salt and ache and rendering its wings wrapped in by the slink from the strap of his second wife, Pearl satin slip shimmering and still as one haring left face up in its brine and tin. The nature of his wound was muscatine and terminal. He was easy to take down as Porgy of the cold Atlantic coast. In the old city of broad, most of the few Jews left living still may have been at supper while he died that same July his daughter scales came off in every brittle tinsel color, washing to the next slow yellowed river and the next toward west Ohio bound, this is the extent of that. I still have plenty heart. But was Lucie. Brock Brueghel reading father in drawer, which was originally published in poetry and December of twenty twelve. Finally, Meena Alexander. She died just recently in November. She was a memoir, est and novelist as well as apart. She was born in India and grew up in India and Sudan later, she studied in England before coming to the US I recorded her in twenty fourteen in New York, and I asked her to introduce and then read her poem condenser. Oh, well, could I wrote after I saw composer friend working on a piece that he was writing? So I had never actually seen a composer work the piano to to you know, just sort of make up a piece, and I suddenly thought oh my God. There's such a connection between the composition of poetry in the composition of music. It's actually closer to the composition of music, then to making a piece of prose like a fiction piece, at least that's what I thought. So. Hence this poem. Cotton's. I want you Huns at the keyboard making music one hundred with a tiny short oppose smoke. I think with finger bone joins Paul mock of the fish living thing in search of a watering hole set in a walled garden or in a field with all the fences torn were hill, your father cry into the wind that beat Cygan stones in a small town where you were born it's cornfield sky would pointing never sewn never to be reaped flagrant immortal. That was Meena Alexander reading condenser. You can read many poems by media Alexander Lucie. Brock ROY toe and j d McClatchy and find out a lot more about them on our website poetry, foundation dot org. The theme music for this program comes from the Claudia quintet for poetry off the show. I'm Curtis fired. Thanks for listening.

JD McClatchy Brock Brueghel Meena Alexander Brock ROY toe congress Horace Pittsburgh Alexander Lucie Donald hall Kayla cuevas Robert Lowell poetry magazine CNN Donald Allen Rome editor theft Mananga healer river Bethesda avion
How Big Tech is combating white nationalism, vaccine myths, and other viruses

Reliable Sources with Brian Stelter

41:28 min | 1 year ago

How Big Tech is combating white nationalism, vaccine myths, and other viruses

"The bad. This is here NCW March madness. Takes the courses the big, Dan. So miss a moment of the action on TBS CBS TNT and true TV and download the March madness live up to watch every game anywhere at anytime. Live. To another wild week four big attack. And how it is shaping all our lives there. We're going to connect the dots between all of the week's media and technology headlines. I'm Brian seltzer. And welcome to reliable sources podcast this weekly podcast in between. Our Sunday television program is a chance to go more in depth with media leaders and newsmakers Puckett about how the media world works. Sometimes doesn't work and these days, it's really all about the media's intersection with the Silicon Valley. Giants the apples, and the those the Facebooks and the Twitter's here to talk through all the reason headlines make a little bit of news is over overdosing and Donio Sullivan to my colleagues here at CNN who cover this world day in day out guys. Welcome back. Thank you. I'm q- over you've been paying close attention to what Facebook is or is not doing about vaccine misinformation. I thought that'd be an interesting place. Start. Because a lot of the conversations we have about big tech and how they are managing or mismanaging their platforms. That's misinformation and this anti vacs crap. That's out there that spreads on social media. That's now a real area of focus for government officials and for journalists who were asking why these companies aren't doing more right and Facebook decided that they were going to do more, right? The on on March seventh. I believe really this month. They had announced that they're taking all this action against vaccine misinformation that was really flourishing on both Facebook and Instagram, but it seems that while they put up this nice puffy press release, and they got a lot of positive press forward initially. They haven't really followed up with some very basic steps to curb vaccine misinformation last week, I noticed that on Instagram and Facebook, if you still search vaccine in the search bar, you got a lot of results for pages that spread all sorts of misinformation things like vaccines. Kill vaccines. Autism et cetera et cetera. And so I contacted Facebook I contacted Instagram, and I got a message back basically saying that there are going to be doing a lot of things in the long term because it's a long term process. But in the short term that we blocking at least some of the vaccine misinformation hashtags things that are like vaccines cause autism was one of the hashtags. Specifically, they told me that man that said, I just probably put this podcast went on went on and looked on Instagram. Search and you know, the top hashtag result was vaccines. Kill. I don't know for the life of me, what is taking them. So long to take this action saying why is it so hard, right? The company's always say it is really hard. He now on March seventh, and we're taping this on March twenty nine it's been the better part of a month. But but donate to be fair to the company. This is really I don't say it's other hard problem to solve this other problems are hard. But. This one isn't as black and white as others. Maybe. Yeah. I mean, it's it's not it's not easy to please applaud form of, you know, billions of people would billions of posts every day that being said, they did build it. So they have a responsibility to, you know, make sure it's in some way user sponsor, what Oliver said about, you know, just those simple things that journalists like us who aren't very technical can go in like users and type in something, you know, what did you type in? You know, like, you would think that that could be when the first things on their list to say, okay, we need to figure on day one. They're announcing this getting all positive press. And the first thing they should do is just search vaccine and be like vaccines kill that might be vacc- misinformation. The reason why this matters so much right now is because of this measles emergency that we are seed in parts of the country serious. Outbreaks of measles linked to the lack of axons. So this is a very urgent issue right now. Right. I actually would take issue. I think this one's actually pretty black and white at least after they announced that they're going to get in the business of they say, they're going to do it right after they've said, they're going to do it. You would think that have a quick outline of action. We're going to take and you would think that the action they were gonna take would be to curb the most popular hashtag and our platform. That says vaccines kill people. Maybe I'm missing something. I was speaking to somebody just last week in DC us in cybersecurity. And does a lot of work with the with the government? And they were saying, you know, this is actually something on these forms. That is literally killing people. You know, we we parse a lot about, you know, political speech and things like that. But this is something where people are actually getting his information and deciding not vaccinate their children. So, you know, the fact even the fact that it took them this long to act. I mean, this was not a new issue. Right. It's been around for a long time. The fact that the announcement came in the past month or two same thing would white nationalism same thing, even with the the housing odds, they make they've made a series of announcements in the past months all these announcements, and I can understand it from a perspective of a company. That's under intense scrutiny. They'll always make the announcement and say, and we're starting to do it now. So it gives them a lot of buying time. So this week when they said, we're banning white. Naturalism? They said starting next week. We're bounding white nationalism. And then you go follow up with them. And you say, well, a lotta white nationalist, speak, even in that in even in that New Zealand suspects manifesto, a lot of the a lot of the talk was in code Certa, you know, slang said are you guys going to ban the slang? The because that's how these guys really communicates look into that too. You know what I mean? So, you know, it's it's it's very it is not easy. And I think we should we should stress that. But then you ask them for what's the actual plan and the eater either don't want to give us the details or they don't have the details. But also if they give us too much, and we publish it. Then the bad actors are going to how to get around it. So right, let's drill down deeper on this white nationalism angle because this announcement from Facebook came, you know, less than two weeks after the massacre of the mosques in New Zealand. This was something the company's been under pressure about for for a while. Does it seem like New Zealand tipped this over and forced action? So I mean, it's hard to believe it. Hasn't it? You know, the company told us that this had been something in the works for quite some time. And even some of the campaigners on this issue that Facebook had consulted told me that this did seem to be something that was coming. I what those same campaigners to me, though, is that, you know, the New Zealand attack really crystallized why this is such a urgent issue. I mean, you know, you have one side where guys are going to these platforms, and they can get radicalized there. And then the other side where they're actually using the platforms to promote their horrific attacks. They say they're going to ban very specific language like white separatism is the answer that will cause an account to be banned. But you're more than earlier don't even that the code language, the cynical jokes the sarcasm. We don't know how baseball's going to handle that kind of content. No. And you know, even though Silicon Valley was seen as being very slow initially too. React to the proliferation of Islam stays across across the platforms ad they sort of event, she got their stuff together and they began working together. And and you know, I think broadly that was seen as a success in terms of stamping out. All these groups any praise for his nominated anything like that on a lot of people have said, you guys have to do the same thing white nationalism and to be fair to them. They said this week that they will I will make the point though, that, you know, it's a lot easier for your systems, what are their human moderators or artificial intelligence to spot and ISIS Feick to say, you know, to spot the various terms and hashtags that they were using. Yeah. I mean when it comes to white nationalism for God's sake. You know, we have elected officials who are doing it does. It's a lot more Doug whistles. There's a lot more. There's a lot more nuance today. So I don't know where it starts, and where it ends, frankly, trolling to I don't know if that was necessarily a component to the ISIS thing where people troll. Ling saying they're part of ISIS, and in the same way that people troll. I mean like four Chan I can see having a field day with this and other people just posting stuff. They're going to try to walk right up against the line up their tower the line Facebook does. You know, just the idea of trying to ban an idea. That's that's a Facebook suing there, they say they're going to ban support for an idea a racist idea. It's going to be an ongoing test of the platform. Hey, look, no farther than Thursday night, the president holds a rally in Grand Rapids. And there were a lot of donate. There were a lot of what folks holding on signs and wearing q t shirts, and you know, I see a lot of people a lot of liberals on Twitter up in arms saying, you know, cues taken over the Trump crowd. But you have to wonder how many of those folks in line really believe are going along with this ridiculous conspiracy or doing too as they say trigger delivers the troll. Yes. To throw some of them are showing up with Q a pair for nearly two troll the media. Yeah. And to Detroit as they say, you know, to to drive liberals, not so seriously, the two of you take this Cunanan conspiracy there it does bubble from time to time sometimes at Trump rallies when there seems to be a high number of. Q signs. I mean, there were even signs in the crowd of this most recent rally do take this phenomenon. Seriously, Oliver I think that you have to take it seriously to some extent that are fringe people who believe fringe ideas. But quite frankly, I think that some of our colleagues in the media have put so much emphasis in or or more obsessed with this queue, and and non followers than than there might be actual fall. I mean, I think they've just given it a little too much attention to most oxygen too much oxygen. And they've made it a thing where like Doni was saying people might want troll the media by wearing these Q science because I think it triggers journalists. Yeah. I think it's such a delicate, you know, line two three. For before. I sorta for my sins. I guess was covering online disinformation in trolls fulltime I've worked in the breaking news site things on verifying content from social media, and you know, will often see now when there's a shooting here or terrorist attack will have journalists that are, you know, openly calling out misinformation in the in the first hours of a terrorist attack. And that can be very useful. Particularly, you know, if it's something about misinformation about shooter misidentifying, but I do think some of our colleagues in the media are going step too far. I will see reporters who were flagging tweets, you know, claiming to identify the suspects that and that tweet might come from a random egg account would know followers might have no favorite or no light. But yet the some journalists are gonna fly this and say there's misinformation on the platform. Here's an example of a tweet and they're tweeting that to their one hundred. Thousand followers. You know, at so I think there that's a bit would Q and onto right? But also, it's a challenge of where do you begin to actually report on it as a serious phenomena because I think in you know, in the months after two twenty sixteen election when the intelligence community came out with their report in January twenty seventeen saying Russia had sought to meddle in the election that use social media to do as a lot of folks really didn't take that. Seriously. They were like, you know, what is a few tweets and a few Facebook posts. Got a soccer to change any votes. That's not going to get people out onto the streets. Well, we actually saw we learned that it did get people out onto the streets from Saint Petersburg. Russia troll group was literally organizing rallies, stoking fears and anxieties of Americans and really getting people out into the streets. So, you know, it's it's it's difficult on a lot of a lot of the coverage isn't really any more about the Cunanan. It's not really aimed at like showing people what this is or it's not coming from a critical angle. It's more like an entertainment like, look how stupid these people? Are. They believe this crazy. They really believe in these pedophilia rings involving the Clintons and Democrats dunking on them. And it just it gets a lot of re tweets like people are loved to dunk on these people. They liked to dunk on some wing trolls, I won't mention because they want attention. But I'm not sure if it's great for the discourse to be inflating profile, you matters from a media literacy standpoint, I insofar as I like the way NBC's, Ben. But the other day said, Hugh is something that a late adopter. So the internet sometimes embrace like you're relatively new to the internet. You're not well versed in a decade's worth of internet phenomenon. You know, you log on you, you get into this conspiracy theory, and because the way the thumbs keep servicing it and keep it going you go down this rabbit hole Q shape rabbit hole. That's a media literacy problem, and that's an algorithm problem. The technology companies have I think that's India that to me that's an interesting angle of this that there are a lot of people who are still just kind of coming online for the first time. We're coming online in a bigger way. And I wonder if responsible media companies are making the right kind of content to help them understand what these crazy loony conspiracy. There is our right. Am I getting anywhere is that seems I'm off? It's it's very difficult. Yeah. I think Facebook for the past few years has tried to down rank they've worked with fact checkers. They're trying to down rank, you know, legit like false news object right for high quality news up. Right, right. What's stuff is always going to slip further track? Facebook said recently that the communities don't have enough local news, even surfaced within Facebook. And and we all know that in our guts that local news has been hollowed out. But I think it's also true. Let's take on a subject vaccines. If you wanna find anti vaccine content. There's lots and lots of that on YouTube is there as much pro vaccine content rebutting the conspiracy theories, I'm not sure if there is it's probably certainly not as compelling if there is either right? Like a lot of these conspiracy theories that have colorful characters who spent all day stoking their audiences with with these, you know, crazy ideas, and I each CDC video on YouTube, saying vaccines, don't actually cause autism or. Vaccines are safe for your children, and it's actually videos going be insatiable? Insatiable? It's not gonna be as viral colts around that video. I see this over and over and over again when when there are these, you know. Over-dramatize exaggerated right wing media stories, there isn't an effective counter with accurate information because that's not going to be as interesting as I can spread as viral early. It's not going to be as click a bowl. Let's move to our next topic which is Instagram debating what to do, but I'll Jones because that's related to a lot of ood discussed so far over catch us up on. What was reported by businesses are in this week? So business insider got their hands on these internal emails were Facebook, executives magazines executives are effectively trying to figure out what to do with Alex Jones is presence on Instagram. So he was banned my Facebook from Facebook. But Instagram said he had them violated the rules, and he was going to be allowed to stay on the platform. I I've been following when to time for a while. And he you know, doesn't blatantly violate the world is the same way. He did on Facebook a lot of it is more like. Him. He knows he's like a character of sorts supposed to be ridiculous, and you kind of plays that up on Instagram showing himself with like memes, and and things of that nature, but occasionally he will kind of dabble in some of the conspiracy theories. Racists, you know, sort of things and he did test. If you will live streaming has shown Instagram few months ago. And so these things have raised flags and caused Instagram to come under some scrutiny from journalists. Tailed Laurenz had a piece in the Atlantic last week talking about this and media matters has noted the Instagram's platform of choice in all this is created pressure and Instagram is now figuring out what to do. They don't know what to do because he hasn't broken enough rules for them to kick him off. But they seem to acknowledge behind the scenes, it's not a good look. Right. So should there. Be rules. Are there rules? What are the rules? Are they being enforced equally? That's an issue that we could coming back to in all of these topics and so one of the executives because they can't ban them for breaking the rules because he hasn't broken enough. Rules says that the internal discussions a Facebook about labelling him at hate figure, which would then be warrant allow them to be. So there's discussion about him internally Facebook about labelling him a hate figure which would then allow Instagram to bar him from the platform. And so that gets into all sorts of tricky territory here. Tucker Carlson's voice right now. Right more in about the free speech ramifications of this, right? And look within when info wars reporters, I should I call them reporters know, they call themselves reporters when info wars personalities confronted me couple of months back. They were claiming that I wanted them d- platform. And I said, I don't know. I don't have the answers for these issues. I think it's incredibly donated said, oh, it's very complicated. Right. It's a slippery slope to it's a very slippery slope. And especially when you, sir. I mean, just it's if you take a step back for a second and think how far face because come says, the twenty sixteen election. He said, we don't be an editorial company where we're tech platform. Now, they're deciding what is our political water. Not there. Working in fact, checkers to work on. What is true? And what is not they're saying, what is white nationalist? And why does not? And now, they're even talking in this space of you know, hate figures. I it's it's they've come. So. Not too late the business insider emails that they got. This was not like, oh were just casually talking Instagram or Facebook told me that they are actually discussing this. And when they have a conclusion, and when they reach it about whether that he should be labeled a hate figure. They'll get back to me. So this is actively happening behind the scenes, it's kind of nuts. It is interesting to see Facebook and Instagram treating themselves so separate entities you. Yeah. Facebook owns Instagram. Oftentimes, you'll see when when Facebook makes movements and sort of coordinated behavior, you know, when they take down Russian Iranian pages. They take it across both platforms as consumers, you know. We're all the time. Facebook is driving us to connect our Instagram and Facebook accounts. So it's interesting to see when they take, you know, a figure off Facebook, they say, okay. Well, because he broke these rules, but they then they that doesn't. Because they were talking about kind of unifying these platforms at least behind the scenes, right? So if you have Facebook, you can mess than someone Instagram WhatsApp, you can mess with some Facebook. So it's going to be kind of interesting if they are allowed to have these different rules. I think the big headache for Facebook is going to be an it's related to Mark zuckerberg's announcement to few weeks ago, where he said we're going to be a privacy driven company, and where you know, he said we've built in wood Instagram and Facebook, the digital town square. So groups would thousands of people are open feeds where everybody's coming to get her out. He says people which is correct people are now moving into smaller more private messaging spaces, which I think he called digital living rooms. We've seen that these digital living rooms in other countries where what's happ is being used. What's at being owned by Facebook? These are actually pretty big, you know, you can have hundreds of people and a what's up group would no moderation at all whatsoever. The shouldn't be called living-rooms, frankly, they're they're more like privates. You know stadiums. And. But what closed out from law enforcement, right and then sharing sharing memes and starring lies insurance mirrors, in some cases. Yeah. And so what what's up what's up point out that, you know, most of our most people communicate on what's up one to one, you know, they're pretty small groups. But a lot of people are in these huge groups, which we have seen of cause massive problems in India, quote, zap is an encrypted messaging service. I mean, I think as consumers all of us would like the idea that, you know, all our communications are encrypted insecure and campy read by Facebook. But then you look at the New Zealand video and Facebook, you know, after initially missing that the the life feet from the suspect in New Zealand's, they worked all we can they said they took down one point five million copies of the video. And then they sort of bragged about how much work they were doing to take that down there. They've nothing to stop the spread of that on Facebook on what's up? Well, it can't because then that would be reading the messages they would so that would violate the whole core. But this is what they're trying to do. But. This is I mean this, and this is a thing that they're going to have to deal with it. Right. You don't join a predecessor Marie that Facebook is kind of both a phone company and a media company when you're media company, you have to enforce standards enrolls if your phone company no-one expects AT and T to cut off your phone call. If you're being a racist using using words on the phone with your friends. Well, Facebook wants to be more of a phone company. It sounds like they want to have you have these private conversations, and thus they don't have to worry about what's being said. While still monetize it, of course, the montage yet. Let's say quick break here. More about Facebook, also Google apple lots more talk about here on the reliable sources podcast in just a moment. Hiring is challenging, but there's one place. You can go were hiring is simple, fast and smart that place ZipRecruiter with their powerful matching technology. Ziprecruiter scans thousands of resumes to find people with the right experience and invite them to apply to your job ZipRecruiter is so affective that eighty percent of employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate through the site within the first day and right now listeners can try ZipRecruiter for free at this exclusive web address ZipRecruiter dot com slash prob-. That's ZipRecruiter dot com slash PR. OB? Ziprecruiter, the smartest way to hire. And we are back here on reliable sources podcast. I'm Brian Stelter here with Donio Sullivan and Oliver Darcy to CNN reporters who cover. This intersection this collision between media and technology. Donate tells about this lawsuit. The you mentioned earlier involves hood versus Facebook. Yes. This came as a surprise to Facebook this week. I think a lot of your listeners might recall in Facebook on a bit of trouble year or two ago when it emerged there is lots of different issues with there is but one basically that landlords were using Facebook's ad targeting tools to. You know, purposely only targets ads for accommodations to certain people. So, you know, some not Nord's might only one to advertise the white people or two people of a certain class or background. And you know, I think groups like propublica nutters, very quickly hopped on that sense. That this is a major issue journals call it out so in the past few weeks, Sheryl Sandberg actually put her name on a blog post that was put out by Facebook. Which is quite significant. A lotta times Facebook will put a blog post. You know, sorta anonymous attributed just to a spokesperson, but Sheryl Sandberg put her name to this where they said, they had come to an arrangement with ACLU and other groups who had taken issue at this sort of discriminatory policy to work to improve it into Brenda Vermont again. And then just a few weeks later, HUD, comes out and sues Facebook for all these issues. So it's I I know from speaking to people at Facebook is they, you know, I think they really. They can't catch a break at this point. They thought they had I think appeased likes of folks at and some of their archers critics then for Ben Carson's department to turn around and sue them. It does seem like every day. There's another headline about Facebook doing something or being out of combat or something you tweeted out right before we came downstairs. Take this podcast. The Facebook has taken down yet. Another round of will they call inauthentic counts. Right. What are in authentic accounts in this case in the Philippines? Yes. Facebook has found a whole bunch of accounts and Facebook groups, which I think are going to be the real new battleground of disinflationary these private groups where it's again, it's this quasi townsquare slash living room. But Facebook has been working over the past eighteen months to take down accounts that look like they're run by activists and certain parts of the world, including the US. But are in fact, run by oftentimes state actors in a different part of the world. So it can be. We've seen a lot of content come down from Iran from Russia. And in this case, the Philippines, which is the the guy who they say was behind the council's actually linked to the president there. That's notable because in the Philippines Maresca the head of rap ler. She has been arrested repeatedly by the Philippine government. She has called out Facebook saying that misinformation about her attacks against the press have been spread on Facebook, and she's linked to the Philippine government. So once again, we see Facebook trying to play whack a mole against these you know, off offensive accounts. What's incredible is we do see these announcements from Facebook every two or three weeks where they say we have taken down five hundred accounts run by Iranians forty accounts run by the Russians of a. If you look back over the past eighteen months, it is now thousands tens of thousands of accounts, right? Reaching at this point. I would say hundreds of millions of people or possibly, you know, maybe even a majority of the people on the platform having some way encountered these accounts that have been run for years by state-linked actors, and there's never going to be a way for us to truly comprehend our measure, what impact that has had undescored in this country and globally and all the things we look at of of the rise of nationalism boat here and in Europe breaks and everything else. You know, how much of that was actually stoked by fake accounts. It's almost something people who couldn't believe, you know, if you years ago like people would literally say as I said earlier, what's a few stoop is tweets and Facebook posts going to do you see it on this scale? I think. I really we really need to think about about what that's done to all of us change the discourse. And that's true on Twitter as well. Let's such on one Twitter headline from this week in the company is saying that it's thinking about what to do when world leaders like maybe President Trump tweet out something that would normally violate the company's policy. What is it that they say they might try to do? They might try to wrap it in contextualized information and some sort of label. I think say, I'm not quite sure. And they don't seem to know yet either. But it's interesting that their knowledge that they're thinking about what to do with regards there dehumanisation policy. If a world leader posts, something that's dehumanizing Twitter is not gonna take it down because they have a world leader policy. Right. But they also there's other. Basically said he said an interview with Ashley Feinberg, what was it that she asked him if he had instructed people to kill journalists whether he would take down, and he had come up with a response to remember donate what the response was. It was something like that. Certainly something we look at their looking looking looking lots of things it is interesting though, that there's a two tiered standard that Jack Dorsey effectively acknowledged that if you are in a certain position in public life that you have different rules that apply to you could argue if you win the votes tens of millions of people, then maybe you do have that different platform. I it's only interesting too because Trump always claiming that the double standard against him. Right, right. A lot of conservative leaders say, oh, you're you're censoring, the president's son, you're censoring, the president censoring, this this bias and the platform and really at least in this case Trump, it seems may have Isla Twitter's rules here and there, and they won't take those things down. And they're basically saying we won't take it down. If you do by the rules because you are president. So he. He does have a double standard it just in his favor. A lot of this could backfire to on the platforms candidates politicians might realize that getting these labels or getting censored some on the platform plays really well with their base. I can see I can see certain members of congress really going up to the line. Doc whistles on white nationalism. Right. And then turning around and going on FOX and saying they Facebook has censored me, right? They've called me how they've labeled me. And then they get twice the amount of followers that had before, you know, because they've got that FOX tension, and they tell their followers got to tell everyone spread the word or they're going to ban us. I mean if I was working in value right now. I would think we're you're sorta damned if you do and your if you don't there's a lot of truth to that really is Google CEO of flew to Washington met with President Trump this week. What did we learn if anything over about the meeting will Google released us, very corporate speak statement, didn't tell us much just basically said they talked about Google and their investment in the US. And and things like that Trump, however tweeted to park colorful statement of sorts saying that he met with Sundar is the president of Google was bothered by this that he didn't even get. Senators tunnel, right? Yeah. Yeah. So you with the CEO who right and one of the things apparently Trump says he brought up was that the conservatives are not treated fairly in the platform, at least in his view, which has been an ongoing theme from Trump and conservatives saying that tech big tack is biased against them. And I'm really curious what that conversation look like internally there, right? Because it's just it's just, you know, we've covered the so many times most of these accusations have no real basis, in fact, or are a lot of times people who don't know even how to the technicalities of using a platform that misconstrued things for bias whore. Dansk Gavino the other day, you know, this is one of Trump's aides who handle social he said that he was being censored by Instagram think was Instagram right Facebook. I think Facebook, you know, he he tried to you know, like or comment on something too many times all of us have experienced as if if I go to throw on Instagram try like five hundred pictures in a row, I'm going to get right? Lynn. But he claimed he was being censored and this. Right. Our stupid. President. You know, I'm sure that Trump's asking Dansk Gavino. Hey, Dan, is this like censorship? But conservatives true, and he's probably saying, yeah, they they ban me. And then that outrageous Trump because didn't Trump I think Trump tweeted about this makes me say they're going to get to the bottom of it makes me sad for a brilliant. Google engineer to have to sink down into the levels of these kinds of issues. But here's what we're Google have mind as we wrap up. This drip lines about the news business. I want to touch on the first is Google now directly paying for local news. I mean, this was a remarkable step companies taking I in a deal of McClatchy to fund the launch of several local news websites. Google mcclatchy. They're going to do with others as well. They say they want to do all around the world, they say they're gonna spend many millions of dollars. Anybody else? A little uncomfortable with the idea of Google Bentley financing news, anybody, well, you know, you're always going to be funded by somebody. I guess aren't you? You're always going to have some you know, goes big. Goes a big sponsor, and that's another way of beans. I mean, I think what what is concerning is this, you know, they're funding. The launch. And you know, might have underwritten it for some time for up to three years makes you wonder what's going to happen. Yeah. I mean, then, you know, do they move on. I mean, we saw a lot of the sort of first iterating of Facebook live shows, you know, Mike, for instance, basically, they blame they blame the the loss of Facebook funding on the flaps. Claps of mother, you might argue that they had some other economic or. Sure that's true, Mike, but it is true. Allow these digital media companies have hitched their wagons to tech platforms and then suffered for it. Yeah. I mean, I I imagine if you looked at the balance sheets for a lot of meteoric are, you know, Ford planning they'll say, and we expect hopefully to get this three million dollar contract from Facebook and Twitter twenty which will help people. Then when Facebook decides we're going to different approach as they often. Do it all these different projects? Then you're in big trouble. I am interested in seeing how this turns out with Google McClatchy. Th there could well be a really important new model here for restoring some of what's been lost and local news. So I don't want to be entirely cynical about it, certainly Google has been blamed a whole lot for some of the damage that's been done a local news. So let's see what they can do in order to to rebuild and that brings us to apple weeks. Other have I of course way back on Monday. I was in Cupertino for for Apple's roll out of the new streaming service and the news plus app, you have been tried as news. Plus, yet avid ten bucks a month. You get a subscription to a bunch of you get access to three hundred magazines and the Wall Street Journal and the Los Angeles Times and a few of websites. This is Apple's way of what they say is reach out publishers, you know, offering a hand in friendship and trying to make the business model work seems like a lot of folks are very. Optical about it. And this may be one of those, you know, let's check back in a year and see if it's working Ziva doing well sorts of things, but the idea of a bundle of news right on your phone is kind of interesting again, it might be another one of these partial solutions to the business model problem. What's the cost that both taking well fifty percent of some of the revenue was oh, so basically, you pay ten bucks a month? And if you spend two percent of your time reading wired magazine wires going to get you know, two percent, but Apple's taking fifty percent of all of the revenue, the one exception to that is if you're wired magazine the ads that use cell inside the news app, you get the revenue from those ads and you sell yourself, but it's definitely complicated. In a lot of publishers like the Washington Post and decided they don't want to be a part of it. They don't think it will help them. I think the next step for this'll be local and regional news though, because we only have the LA times and the Wall Street Journal, I could see smaller papers wanting to get in on this model. Even if it doesn't make them a lot of money still helps slopes a little bit and helps them reach a new audience. Right. Lotta this is about making sure you're able to reach a new audience. I was talking to an executive one of these companies that's participating this week. And there were saying that, you know, there's talk like if you subscribe to apple news, maybe won't subscribe to their actual publication. And their their argument was well, they may see our contents in apple news, see that they liked that kind of content and then what the fuller experience, and then, you know, pay the whatever ten dollars a month to their publication. So you know, you could see that that certainly playing out on apple news. I could definitely see it. There's a different kinds of customers different kinds of things. I'm not convinced lots, but we're going to cancel the Wall Street Journal. And then only read it in the news plus app for ten dollars a month. There might be a few of those I opened that's going to be. Frequent behavior by the way, when I was in Cupertino that apple now has hundreds and hundreds of staffers working on news. And that that I took a step back on that. You know, that's done include senators includes a lot of engineers marketers. We will sell in the news, plus applic-, it's a lot of different kinds of people. But you do get a sense that these two big companies whether it is apple or Google or Facebook or others, they they do have these elaborate projects now, and do you even do you know that at her about bones lower encourage Lauren current, no matter, I just met her. The apple hired her like a year ago from New York magazine, she goes over there should mass as huge team in quiet. And you know, I don't think many people really know exactly what she's doing day-to-day basis. My impression is she. And her colleagues are curated in the the main sections of the news app. So that when you log in your hopefully in theory, getting high quality news and not sensational ridiculousness. I just think it's interesting though, that we are accustomed to knowing that chiefs of the news organizations editors of the Washington Post editors of the New York Times. And apple news has a hugely influential operation, and no one really has ever heard for more on current. She's doing interviews one of the New York Times. So and if you're listening come on the podcast, apple news is done very well to not fall into the trap that Facebook. Did when day I begun to hire moderators. Remember when they had the trending or editors or whatever they had called him at the time. But you know, it was real unions who were curated content for that sidebar that was back in. I think twenty sixteen prior to the election where everything blew up where they said there is an anti conservative bias there. The New York Times huge expose on Facebook before the holidays included that definers the the pub- the policy PR firm that they had hired in DC had sent out this really terrible research documents on apple news, employee's trying to point out. They're supposed liberal bias cease. It was it was it was a it was it was bullshit. Okay. Great. It was supposed to. But it it did it did it did get me thinking that apple news. Now, given that they're putting so much money into this with hiring all these people, and they have humidity's probably does deserve more scrutiny from the press to see how they are actually making these decisions too. You know, what millions of people what news stories they're seeing not seeing when they open up their feet everyday. Right, right. It is interesting though, news was the last thing the Steve Jobs before he died of wanted to get right? He was always frustrated at least, according to the Walter Isaacson biography. He's always frustrated that that was something he wasn't able to work on. And he wanted to make sure that there's some sort of business model for publications moving into the twenty first century and hit thought about it a lot apparently. And so, you know years after his death as I watched us. It's very interesting to see apple seriously trying to do something with news. And you know, the there has been a lot of. Scrutiny about the business model and how it's going to work. But if it does work very interesting, they still can't get up maps, right though. Oh, I don't wanna hear Oliver's rant about apple. My what's your their search function is terrible on I message. You just cannot type in a word and find, you know, the conversation that correlates with that word in a very timely manner. Oliver told me about this. And and and told me to bring it up when I was at apple headquarters, I'm going to have to go to corporate Tino. Now, my second have to do it yourself and Tim cook. And you're outta way to solve the problem. Yeah. Get them to fix maps while you're there. I think the through line here is that with great power comes great responsibility and really complicated questions. Whether that's apple Google Facebook Twitter, Oliver Doni, thanks for being here. Thank you. Thank you. Hey, what's the best platform to find each of you on? What are your? What are your? What's your preferred? Look you up and follow you platform. Why deleted Facebook? He did. I did didn't even notice that says Larry look up on Twitter and my Instagram is. And so Twitter is the place. All right Dorsey at Doni on Twitter. We just can't give it up. Thanks for joining us on this week's reliable sources podcast. We'll see one television this Sunday and every Sunday at eleven AM eastern time on CNN.

Facebook Instagram Twitter Google Apple Oliver CNN president Silicon Valley Russia New Zealand President Trump Dan CBS Jack Dorsey Oliver Doni McClatchy Giants Washington Post
How Burnout Can Be a Good Thing

WSJ Your Money Briefing

07:33 min | 1 year ago

How Burnout Can Be a Good Thing

"This podcast is brought to you by game which game bridge offers annuities designed for the digital age. Simplified products with guaranteed returns that you can buy online. Learn more at game bridge dot life slash W. S J not available in all states. With your money briefing. Im Tanya boost does in the newsroom at the Wall Street Journal, and if your hard at work making money, you're sure to get burnt out sooner or later, but here's the thing. That's actually good news. We're learning how burn out can be a good thing. But I hear somebody headlines. The dollar shuffled between gains and losses. Head of economic data from the US and Europe due out later this week the US dollar index which measures the US currency against a basket of sixteen. Others was recently unchanged at ninety point zero six software market data would likely justify the Federal Reserve's cautious shift on interest rates and pressure the dollar, which tends to become less attractive to yield a seeking investors. When rates seem unlikely to rise. Meanwhile, investors will keep an eye on Thursdays release of European manufacturing data to determine whether growth in the region is continuing to slow. Fred's is set to evaluate its strategic alternatives and close some stores. Discount retailer Fred's Inc has hired investment Bank PJ Solomon to evaluate strategic alternatives. The journal writes the retailer has also hired SP three sixty capital partners liquidation firm to close one hundred forty nine stores. Read more about the broader discount retail industry and the latest reteaching retail shifts at wsJcom or the WSJ app. Neiman Marcus is poised to become the latest US business to push lenders into supporting refinancing a trend. That has raised concerns about delaying a reckoning on unsustainable debt loads in the coming weeks. The company is on track to replace around four billion dollars of debt. In a presentation to lenders Neiman, Marcus said, it's debt exchange would give it more time to increase its annual adjusted earnings by around fifty percent to at least seven hundred billion dollars the next five years and the company said it expects to start seeing meaningful improvement in fiscal. Twenty twenty coming up, Ken working too hard. And getting burned out. Be a good thing. Maybe we'll explain after. This. This episode is supported by game bridge high rate low fuss annuities annuities get a bad rap. Some think there too conservative too complex or only for retirees. But when you strip away the bells and whistles annuities can be a Smart Choice for steady growth. Game bridge aims to change the game by offering simplified annuities. In a sleek digital experience, replacing fine print and phone tag with clear conditions and a direct low fee model by online at gamers dot life slash W. S J not available in all states. Burnout especially from working too much can deprive us of all kinds of things. But it can also do things to help us better focus on ourselves and find success author. Steve McClatchy joins the Wall Street Journal's JR Whalen with war. Go ahead. Admit it. You're workaho Alec. But whether we admit it or not working too much coupled with everything else going on in our lives catches up to us when we get burned out. But does it have to be a bad thing author? Steve McClatchy says, no. And he's with us on the line in points out. We can actually benefit from burnout. So Steve from my experience burnout feels like I've been run over by a steamroller, but it can actually create time to focus and take a step back and figure out what got us to this moment. Yeah. It took me. A while to connect burn out does have benefits. I mean, it's certainly not a place. Anybody wants to be and if you've ever been there, you know, it's a really bad feeling. But when you look at the things that it inspires us to do. I think there's some benefits to having that feeling. You mentioned the fact that people you talk to the actually it inspired them to create bucket lists heads for the benefit of being burned out. We start get real creative. I mean, how many bucket lists have been created because of the feeling of Burnett? We start to brainstorm everything that's possible in our life. That's better than the situation where curly in we start to dream. We start to ask questions. You know, we start to consider the possibilities of what what improvements gonna look like and the direction we're going to take our lives and introspection seems to be a big byproduct positive byproduct of all this and taking some personal inventory of what's working in our lives. And what's not? Yeah. I mean now, you get real you get honest with yourself when you're burned out. I mean once you've considered all the possibilities. Okay. So maybe you can't become a professional soccer player. But what can you become? So you look at your strengths your weaknesses assess all your skills and abilities your likes in your dislikes. I mean, if you've ever talked. Somebody who's burned out. They really are honest with themselves because they're trying to assess how to make things better. And we have to starting point. We're going to do that. And it can also inject some motivation into our lives. And then I guess the burnout feels like you've hit a wall. But you say that people can actually turn a corner and do things in their lives and be motivated to do things in their lives. They've been they've been putting off that could actually help enrich their lives. And again, if you don't do anything about Burnell, it certainly a bad feeling it can become a rut it can become depression. It can turn into a midlife crisis. But we act on Burnell eat now motivates us. I mean now now we've we've dreamed everything that's possible. We've taken personal inventory, and now there's a gap between where we are. And where we want to be and we start to get motivated to close that gap. I mean, if you look at what burnout has inspired people to do. I mean, people have gone and gotten MBA's and PHD's they've written books. They've run marathons. They've learned new languages. I mean, it really not just inspires us. But we're going to we're going to move things forward. It's gonna take a lot of time energy and effort, and that motivation often comes from the feeling of Burnell, and you also write that burnout really does add courage into our lives. It helps us to face our fears to take risks in a really does improve that profile inside people to take risks and put themselves out there when they might not be inspired to do that. If they're feeling too complacent on their way to burn out. Yeah. One of our biggest fears is the fear of failure. It can really paralyze us, and you know, we get into that analysis paralysis to all the things that a possible, and then we know about to make ourselves vulnerable. I mean, if we're gonna improve things things can't stay the same as they are right now in your life. You're gonna have to change something and with change comes risk. And sometimes we don't take that risk yet. The feeling of burnout when it's really there. We say to ourselves things can't get worse. It's worth the. Risk. It's worth being vulnerable. And all the sudden we get courage to act and without the feeling of Burnett. We might not have that courage again. I I don't think it's a great feeling. But if you have it use it it really inspires us to take some risks to go ahead and take that step forward that we'd been hesitating because of the risk and with that can come some great great outcomes and results. All right. So change can be good. That is author. Steve mcclatchy. He's the author of decide works smarter, reduce your stress and lead. By example. He joins us on the line. Steve thanks for coming on the show. They stay aren't thanks for having me. And that your money briefing, im JR Whalen in New York for the Wall Street Journal.

Wall Street Journal Steve McClatchy US Game bridge Burnell JR Whalen Burnett Neiman Marcus Federal Reserve Europe soccer Twenty twenty Fred Alec New York Fred's Inc midlife Ken
Little Atoms 556 - Simon Garfield's In Miniature

Little Atoms

31:48 min | 2 years ago

Little Atoms 556 - Simon Garfield's In Miniature

"They is little atoms. A radio show about ideas and coacher with me nail. Denny. Vici-? We. When looking at how small things luminated the world went silent and his latest book in miniature. Shannon. Garfield is the author of a number of Clayton to books of nonfiction, including the notable woman that it to the letter on the map, just my type timekeepers and move history of aids in Britain, the end of innocence will the Somerset Maugham prize. And so I'm latest book in miniature how small things eliminate the world is what we're going to be talking about today. Simon welcome to little very happy to be ill. So I wanna talk about why miniatures where did the idea for this book come from? I mean, slightly convoluted. But you'll appreciate the the one of the might have been idea that I think my agent to thought maybe a little bit to skew even for me. And if anyone listening wants to take this on be my guess 'cause I'm not going to the idea was originally, I was going to have it was going to be a book called full men. Build a railway, and it was going to be about four middle-age men. My age putting together. A model valet in an asterisk somewhere says the idea being know, you have kids and are you by the transit us wanted as a kid, but you never had. And you would actually now have this dream who be much more much more able to afford all that you wanted. And you would get a who won't be set or whatever it wasn't and build a wonderful landscape around and learn about, and it wasn't really going to be about a modal way. It was actually going to be about the men and their lives and be life crises, and I'm relationships, and but I wish I couldn't find anyone who was willing to do this because it was going to be quite a forensic thing. It was going to be one day for one one day each week for a year, and I was going to interview them, and then it was going to be wonderful book couldn't find anyone who would be my Guinea pig for this. And then I thought actually it's kind of acquire an amazing feat of skill to pull this together into a cohesive book. And then I talked to cover me people, and they said to obscure, so then I thought okay, but I'm actually interested in miniature things in general interested in not just more well ways than model allergies. But the idea of a miniature of is something that we sort of neglect. But we use all the time. So in tested ways, if you're set design would build a model of of a stage, oh path to build or if you an artist you would awfully of work in my cat formed. I all if you Victorian entrepreneur, you be interested in the fleas circus as I was. And so I kinda thought well, it was thing about miniature objects is they tend to make us look from closely at things that we think we know and hence the book came about, but I can architects model is a vital step on their of the path to building a building a scale model of the Taj Mahal made out. Matchsticks very different ballgame. Yeah. Absolutely. Well, it encompasses the booking com. His all those all this kind of ideas to take the kind of hobbyist angle take the three instant in in the book. I talked someone who's spent pretty much seventy years their life, building four hundred forty warships outta map sticks. Any spare time he had? Now he's tied and he would do do this. And he says this is crazy for him nor the only a history of World War ships and the biggest collection surprised to learn anywhere in the world and museum quality stuff is every modal is exacting and beautiful. And everything else. He takes them out to shows. He's done that police. What is also created this hobby way, he's created much ideal world himself and you'll hobby. He had a colleague who died who said, well, you will find many do this not only to take up all the time. But the outside world becomes increasingly unattractive. In other words, you create this attic shed mentality feel self and you to form I'd let's say in ways to the form of mindfulness in a way before the term came about, you know, any hobby way, you of concentrate a lot, and you I'm. Forget your real world problems because you said so concerned with getting the exact minute shy of whatever you're building. So and obviously that goes for model Varela Jason we talk a bit about the those extreme things, which which are now sort of still huge turned to modal worlds. The so as you say, the the big gap between that and then the kind of the work who designs it, you know, as an architect as you said or a set designer or an artist, but the same principles apply think which is the value to the viewer is that you understand more by making small if you were to do model warship you will look at the helicopter or the the play whatever on the deck, probably for McClatchy than you ever. Would if one just zoomed by or if you on a deck, and you would think this is a huge fantastic fi- to plan what a wonderful thing. But. Examined it in the same to gray, and the idea of an architect modal, what it sort of two an from the one is to show your client what you're going to build that they can look around. It's the only opportunity, of course, where you have looking down in a sort of gold like way on modal because if you're building a new church or even a new house, you can only see it from the front door the back of the sides when it's fully built in Bill size. Obviously this way, you can see the whole thing and see how it relates to everything else around it as an architect building motivational safari conceal doesn't things as well. You can show certain aspects to be more significant than say hourly. And so it's a kind of tool, but it's it says an immense purpose in a way in terms of the boat. What counts as a miniature? What is what's in the Mottes out will lead tiny bit that that sort of defines my definition of? It. So I say of all the minutes things will encounter in the following pages. Not all of them will be small. So the impression is it's to be tiny. But of course, the miniature railway in Hamburg, which prides itself on being the biggest in the world. It's like ten miles. If you include all is sort of student, so not small the Venetian hotel in Las Vegas with its fully workable gondola vied for the medically of choose sleeps four thousand and all the thing about Vaga says I was a trend to create the world in hotel signs. So it would be New York, New York, and the Venetian, and then Paris and Paris have a half size towns. And then I'd say, but everything in the book will be miniature scale compared to the thing. It's a miniature of and then I say well things may also perform a millage UT. So they may explain the concept with over puzzle. Job memory, a souvenir of a building on a. Tearing though interesting fits the Bill as does a miniature bottle of gin, Volkswagen beetles is note because it was a vigil Bill small it wasn't smaller than else, and no doesn't ever small thimble. No matter how kina those who act them mini bars and lapdogs of borderline as the autobahn cycle today. Shen a toy poodle made of plastic in a classroom Tableau made by five year olds of no interest to anyone. I wanna start off with as you doing the book with the Eiffel tower, and of course, the gases onto the beginning of the idea of the of the souvenir small obviously scale versions of the Eiffel tower tower itself, conversely, does a similar thing to what we're talking about miniatures the relationship managers have to their larger objects in simile people are able to goes up people have obviously never been in an airplane at this time right to go tower. Suddenly, see. Paris see the world in a completely new way. Exactly, why begin the with the Eiffel tower which at the time when opened eighteen eighty nine with the biggest building in the world and now dwarfed by hundreds of course. But then it was extraordinarily you say you need great coverage to go up even to the first platform. They wanna done this before the tallest. The tool building in Paris will the view the highest view with the Notre Dame cathedral. And then this thing suddenly goes up hundreds of feet, and you go up, and he say, the other you see miniature Paris laid out in front of you for the first time they wanted ever seen this. So you can see the houseman of. You can see your house may be relation to than it was hospital. It is on foot. You've got an idea. But how far is when you looking at it vertically? It's a different thing. And you get a sense of two things you get a sense of enormous omnipotence, you are taller than anything on the ground. You are giant seeing the whole of your CAT for the first time. But you also get a feeling of what actually this is a big modernist building. And it's the future and how small we are really up in the avenue relation to the world around us. And then as you say you come down for the first time pretty much, you can buy mass-produced factory souvenirs of the Eiffel tower, you can get them as little metal objects to put on mantelpiece or you can you can get the image in any form of clothing scarf or handkerchief for that kind of stuff. If you get it as a wing. Silver wing fulltime shape. So that Olivia stashes the idea of ownership and capturing something and the idea of saying I was there. And then that in time we'll be joined by other things on the mantelpiece. And of course, those souvenirs say ubiquitous world now, obviously photography going to visit a place taking. I think it's difficult to think we're remove that's tiny little cast iron model of the Eiffel tower. No way replicate use it reality the experience of visiting the thick and yet it's suit of the more accurate. It is the more you it had it being just a little lump of metal without the sort of an attempt to recreate the filigree element of the metal on the on the tower itself. I all the Chris crossings and all the triangles and the balconies and the platforms, and it wouldn't have been any good the key to miniature that we are that we actually treasuring we're interested in is not something, that's just more detail. That's the other point the, hey, wow factor that we have. And we're looking at a model village is about the accuracy. It's not the fact that it small because anything can be small. I could do the worst model of f anything of my house out of a bit of. Cardboard and then would say, hey, they would say that goes in the Ben. But if you go to a model village, what you what you were amazed at is the detail the amount of care someone who's taken to get everything. Exactly. Right. Well, I wanted to move onto model villages. Basically, we creating on the grounds that feeling of look at it Paris for that, you know, the top of the Eiffel tower and. I visited gold sale and various bottle villages when I was a child. I went after reading chapter I went online to try and look at how many of these were still in business around the country. And you know, there's a there's a few how particularly about back in skull, again, just a little blocks. The pale of the place the peel is infinite and timeless six tool we things. So I mean, God sale is is is now for having a model village within silent with the inside his model village, which is sort of a wonderful concept. Beck and Scott is coming up to its ninetieth anniversary next year the dates are little bit hazy. But that's the one that claiming so one thousand nine hundred twenty nine and it began we think no one knows exactly as a model railway inside the house and the the wife of the of the guy live in Canada who Bill. It go frustration taking a whole houses easings tend to do and said it's either meal away. And so the railway went outside the garden, and then it expanded. And then obviously, a motorway self is very interesting. What you need is an interesting landscape and expanded from that. Now, it's well for what it's been the size of a football pitch, but it's constantly expanding. So they recently opened whole new little area, which has it will based on the nineteen thirties. Innova loose kind of way. So they had a hanger lane type tube that open there, and they had a town hall that was sort of nineteen thirty ish. But actually more more on flaws are very they don't I said about the exact issued over what they want is the exact dimensions defeat in just about with everything else that that's what they do mind so much is it doesn't have to be exactly nine hundred thirty but walking around there. No less. Entertaining now as an adult as it was to me as a kid, and I took my kids out. And then I was doing the book I took and kids of a neighbor because my kids are grown up now. And they're joy, really because it's such an unusual thing. They have like everyone else, ipads and everything else. And although there quite you know, they do quite a lot of sort of arts related work and craft related work with the hands as well these kids, but it's nothing like they've ever seen. But it made me think that actually are interested in minutes, just really begins as kids and some some of us grow out of it and some of don't so the world is is a Dumi confusing place as an adult and as a kid, but as a kid, you have no control over anything really in your life. I mean, your, you know, your your parents pretty much ruled the roost from what your bedroom looks like to when you go to bed. To what meals you eat. This is when you're young school pretty much the same. So if your six year old the idea of having a LEGO that or a model train or. Not quite popular. They used to be an action man when I was growing up with Bob Dole. We still a huge those kind of things you are in control. And it's maybe the only time that you'll in control and so much of the men at your world. It's about that. It's about setting the world rights, and you can do that as a kid and oversleep you can do that as an adult. So the idea of a model village back in skies, you'll sort of creating an ideal world that's not to say everything perfect because even in sort of back and score in the village. There's a crime going on there's a there's a kind of old copy chasing, a thief with a swag sort of cross the lawn that terrible puns, terrible pounds. I mean, so the green grocer is called Chris p latches and the Butch was called to to to the called salmon Dalla. And so go to say that anyway, so that goes on and the adults point out the puns to the kids who come away to the game. And then there's some general kind of witness going on those. Well, so all Giminez arguments in outside average, you can you can't hear anyone shot. He imagine people shy shouting, there is graffiti, so it's not the perfect place. But it's sort of perfect. We creation of everything where there is a fire. But the five is on hand there is a. Sebagh policemen to that it's still pretty ordered. And as limited chaos. A little items. I'm nail de needs to engulf field. And we took it about his book in miniature how small things luminated the world and Simon maybe is I'm from bottle village as to the ready mentioned about the model railway. The talk about load railways in the book despite the book the entire book be in about men that run Motorola, he's I think you've already mentioned the Hamburg miniature wonderland. Your sounds like I mean, the most amazing place. It's amazing a an unnerving really as well. I'm so unlike in Scott, which has a you know, kind of history and Becca so it's quite an organic plays this season to know got it. This is two German guys in Hamburg deciding channel so years ago, maybe fifteen years ago now to build the biggest model Elway in the world from scratch. So classic thing. They never really had the with they wanted when they were kids they got some money because van nightclub these brothers. And they said they passed a model railway shop in zero. Vic, I think one of them is on holiday and cool. The other one and said, I've had an idea and. The idea becomes a reality. And they open up and the model away just through the little model. Germany, and then they say no enough, we're gonna build we're going to build, and then they go to mortal America, and at their car model Italy, which is sort of crazy the mall lately, I think one of the most sort of impressive and expensive one. So they've got a they've got a kind of opting CVS up sivy, twenty minutes and you want to warn as a visitor. You want to warn the people of Pompeii to run for their lives. But they never do. They get covered in this some have through beautiful of electronic way that lava gets swept away on the niece. And they've also got within this an airport, and they carve going, and it's extraordinarily thing to look at and they were about to build model Britain, which will inevitably have what the model nor with has all of the world with Big Ben in the house. The parliament and other things as well. And so, you know, we're going Brexit with including us in next next to Germany and Italy. And they want us in which is great I'm, but it's a slightly strange because you kind of think, well, what is this really about? You know, what it's about is building something where earning money. Lotta people come to send the book, you know, it's it's huge tourist attraction in Hamburg, and one of the big in Germany, and people discount believe the intricacies of the whole thing. And how beautifully it all and occasionally because they want to interrupt the the beauty of it. They will stage well crash or something that to show that this happens in real life too. And in a coffee warehouse on the docks in Hamburg, I found it incredibly impressive in one on one level and. I also thought. Yeah, you can do this. If you've gone enough great model makers and enough money behind an enough investment. But what I really like. And I think the real joy had in the book was talking to the slightly more eccentric is like the guy built, you know, the four hundred forty matchday warships. And I love looking at like the flea circus. And I love talking to the guy who designed those tiny tiny perforated minutes tabs of acid each which had a little optimistic logo or emblem on them said that's the stuff. I really enjoyed the stuff that was kind of more zecic, really. When I read the book, but you mention you know, the perhaps oppose the fact that people Rod Stewart and Neil young, Motorola and fusi assets. Since then I mean, Neil young has multiple houses to be fair. But I'm the news his housing, California when the this huge fire, and I said to my wife, I wonder if he's railways. Yeah. I know it's I'm sure it was really and. Yeah. No, I love that. I mean, the fact that kind of what's to relax that that's the way he relaxes. You know that that idea of goes on tall if he goes on tour for more than one or two days like if he does a week in Las Vegas road takes his well away with him along with various well way, building and these systems and bills in his hotel, suite. And he finds it that sets the way he can he can come down after after a gig at sort of eleven at night by running well away around attract, and this is wonderful into the I quote that he did with his Morgan appears more goes to voids house and says, you know, he got a way up stairs. Can I say? What is no? Because he knows that his Morgan was just not understand it and take the piss out of the last thing. He. He wanted. Also, I was making never to do that in the boat. You know, I was thinking there are clearly since the crazy people who devote their whole lives to mill building very very very tiny things and some of them get really tiny. And I kinda thought these. In another world. I might have been one of those kind of guys, and I kind of think no man either. And I think well, I like the idea of the patients in the dad occasion. The I wanted to do the piss, but anyway, would see it. I I'm sure that Morgan was going to take the he said even in the interview, he does you know, he I should actually liked quote little bit where. Let me find this bit here where God says to the producer will maybe the director of the little TV interview that doing you know, he turns to the one St. and says, you know, people still watching this like watching me talking about my model away. And then he's Morgan says to him ju like being the driver or the kind of master which which makes it sound like some sort of coded sexual behavior. And then what do it said that don't tell you the pace where little hat. It's a lovely hobby is like leading a book or painting a picture. It's three-dimensional. It's wonderful. And I say, you know, and he didn't get that in the sort of the losers you in a way, there's a famous film, the French film, which could lead Dina do comb, which was Hollywood is into the NFL schmucks, which I'm sure you know, where Steve. Corral. I've invited classically to this dinner where these very elitist hedge funders all the wealthy guys who think that the bee's knees? Wouldn't it be brilliant to invite a guy who's the nedia for dinner through the piss out of him? And both in the French version. And in the American version, the guy they invite is a mortar and he builds the Eiffel tower out of matchsticks, and I say this guy it's like it's like sort of Shakespearean fool who knows more than his master's away. Really? This is the guy who comes out on top. And I say, you know, he the model of is happy in his world. And the people invite them in those. Well, just to finish off enzyme in. Yeah. You have mentioned a lot of the people that do this man than I imagined people that listing probably would would suspect that too. So let's finish off talking about a woman. Yeah model and in fact, there's a whole section of the book about domestic model in Queen Mary's incredible and a huge working Dole House that you can see it Windsor Castle and the phone miniatures Chicago institue, but I want to talk about Francis glass me nutshell studies. Yeah. What are they an amazing person? So in the nineteen twenties and nineteen thirties. Glass. Allay lived in Chicago. She was a traditional build of little model houses and little models blows and would build tiny little Jessica jewels to go in and this was a fun thing and still popular now and manager. Modeling as we said, not only absolutely not an exclusive kind of male thing, and she became friendly with someone in the local police fourth who is quite high up, and he was aware that when his detective went to see a crime scene for the first time, they didn't really look carefully enough at and what they did was they looked at the body. They may have moved evidence. Who's now classically we know never do. And they kind of thought, okay, we can solve this all you know, is this is going to be easy. What they found was that actually what you really needed is at the spot as soon as you get called in the clues of often all their, you know, you don't have to do all the interviews. But we need to do is look more closely. So what he what he encouraged Glenn alita do was to build these tableaux, which I suppose with the size of shoebox vase, more TV set or something lie that which depicted. Did a corpse was and then various other elements in it. Now, these would be based either on a true life crime or an imaginary crime and often the combination of the two and the idea was to encourage people to look at the whole thing you begin with often the body in the middle of the body might be hanging. Former rope in Bonn or might be in a bath tub, and then water would still be dripping like silver foil from the tap and everything in there would be incredibly exact so there will be a medicine bottle that was a tiny tiny version of real life, Madsen bozos instantly recognisable as a real place, you believe that. And the idea was that you would just look, and there would be enough clues not necessarily to solve the climate understand the circumstance far more stormy thing is these things are still used as ways of examining and ways of educating and coaching new. Detectives in looking things so, you know, seventy eight years on these are still incredibly valuable things and the book the closer, you look, the more you see the closer you look. So it's kind of wonderful spiral. And but can I just say Neal? The we've talked a lot of Asli about models in this does actually have a use in real life. And I was very keen when I talked to architects, and when I looked at theatre set design is to look at. Real world youth, I suppose and the most important tale that I came across. And I had a lot of fun doing the book the most important one with a serious one which was about well late eighteenth century, the slave trade was lawing. Really? I'm Britain was getting wealthy on the back of sugar and cotton plantations, and the triangular slave trade meant that slaves would come in from Africa. They would land in Liverpool. We shipped out to let's say Jamaica, and people were getting very wealthy on this trade. We were actually treating people in a terrible way and slaves were shackled in these kind of coffin ships. They were called and they were crammed in three or four hundred to vote below decks, and they would often die on the voyage totally Macy it, and they were obviously, you know, oddly subservient to them ask. Others and wit on these things they only knew about this thought this terrible thing in the slave trade must end so people that William Wilberforce empowerment, we'll get up make speeches had very little effect longtime because there was so much money at stake. What happened was a banker and a role academy. Shen could William Elford went up livable. Drew a poster of what he imagined because he went to ship didn't see the slaves. The slave galleys ships to actually look like did a post all these black men typically shackled together terrible conditions. This has some impact the poster with Joop gated printed in newspapers, but only when this was made into a miniature mall model someone made unknown person made a wooden model and cut out the drawings of these lives and put them throughout the boat. Cram them in and when this went down parliament in people's hands only, then could they really on the. Stand. Wa- conditions were like now, this didn't end the slave trade overnight. But it gave people the visual inside that they never had before. And the reason I like that was because he showed the value of of a model light nothing else. Are we took it to Simon Garfield? We've been talking about his book in miniature how small things illuminate the world, which is out now kinda gate. So I'm thank you so much. Loved coming in you. This little atoms was produced and presented by me nail Denning was first broadcast on resonance one. I four point four Latin to supported by eight and the puck custody. And the puck Coasties fifty eight find design, and if you like these leaves a review, you can find old interviews new journalists more on our website, intellectual dot com. Thanks for listening.

Eiffel tower Paris Simon Garfield Hamburg Britain Morgan Shen Las Vegas parliament Motorola Taj Mahal Scott Denny Shannon Eiffel tower tower Guinea McClatchy Volkswagen
Go Big 007  You Wake Up & Youre Dead with JD Martin

Go Big Real Estate Podcast

1:08:39 hr | 1 year ago

Go Big 007 You Wake Up & Youre Dead with JD Martin

"This is the go big podcast episode. Welcome to go big real estate podcast helping you on law to real estate potential, and develop a go big mindset. Here's your host army officer turned real estate investor hunter law. Hyde welcomed go big listeners hunter locked your host in your guide for all things real estate. Investing and mindset today. I've got a great guest named JD Martin. And I'm excited to bring up to you. JD is a is an inspiring guy. We have a fairly long talk today, and we go over, you know how he he's a he's a guy who you know, he comes from humble beginnings, he lost six figures on his first real estate deal. So you wanna talk about a guy who who has the resilience to get back on the horse. Here's your guy, you know, he holds down a fulltime job. He he obviously loves what he does. And you know it was it was great talking to him because because he's so down to earth in what he wants to do. And, and I think that, you know, if you if you're someone who's sitting there telling yourself that, oh, yeah. This whole real estate. Investing thing is great, but it's not for me. And maybe it isn't, but if you think if you feel like you have excuses or, you know, I don't come for money, so I can't do real estate. You know, Jay. JD is a great example of a guy, who's who figured out what he wants out of his life, and he's, he's actualize that for himself, and we have a great conversation around that. So, you know, some, some interesting things about him. He's a he's got a doctorate okay for guy who didn't even wanna go to college to begin with. He got we talked about how he stumbled into a doctorate or to being a having three college degrees. And when he went for his first house, like I talked about a little teasers at e lost over six figures on a how new construction project that they did as their I deal and we talk about the lessons I learned from that. And, and I think that'll be really important in how he came back from that. And his strategies for he doesn't for example, he doesn't use a lot of leverage. So talks about the strategies that he's using today to have the life that, you know, low risk life. That is good for him. He's not the guy that's trying to go out and buy ten thousand units in. But he's him. He's created a great amount of wealth for him and his family, and it's a is an inspirational interview, so sit back and enjoy my interview with JD. I will Jay. Thanks for coming in today. Man has gone pretty good. Thanks for having me, appreciate the, the invitation. I appreciate it end. And we've we've been having a good time talking. So I figured we start recording and, and actually get some contin out there. So on it. You why don't you just jump right in and kind of introduce yourself to the audience, and to me and tell a little bit of your back story and what you're all about. Okay. Joe or JD Martin of, you know, known by both names and a real estate investor on bunch, rental properties, a have a day, job, runny tilde district use navy veteran a Gulf war, one a spent four years in military dot a got out. Got married got a college degree than got another college degree than another cost degree. So actually, hold a doctorate in public administration. A teach teach. Public finance. Teach government wastes teach for a couple of aging universities, sentece state, thus university. And when I'm not doing all that and doing real estate and working day job. I have a, a professional band called rhythm burgers, and, and so that pretty much sucks up. Most of my time. Than sound like you're busy at all. A lot of free time. Yeah. Sure. Well, what, what I didn't know that three college degrees, what possessed you to go to go that deep. Well, you know, I actually had never planned going college. I was gonna lousy high school student smart. But lazy, you know, in the probably the worst combination you can have. So I managed to make it to high school. But so when I got when I got finished what I wanted to do didn't wanna go back school. So I hung around for your pump gas grope New Jersey so hung around pump gas for year then figure do something on wins. Military scored high enough on the as bad. They offered me any job. I want. So I took electron IX so went in with electron stack. Got ended up on ship went through my schooling up on the ship and like transfer good figure. Well, you know, I'll when I get out, I'll just keep doing this. And then, so when I got out what I found was the electrons was changing this. I got ninety three electrons was changing pretty rapidly at that point. And there was no more fixing things down a component level. You just pull words swap them, and they were pay anybody any money to do that. So what I found was, I had this great set of skills than had no marketplace, or so I said, better learn to accept so off the college, I went, I went actually went to college for computer science and found that it didn't really like the material or the math, where the instructors. So I was going to drop out. And I had an adviser, and he said, well, just try taking some core classes for semester. See how that goes. So I did that stumbled into political science class with. With a guy Dr Joe course on give him a shout-out. He's passed away unfortunately, but ended up being good friend of mine for years and stumbled into this guy's class did terrible McClatchy, there got a Di unit was probably generous de besides, but a lot of the material, you know, and so I took another one to another one changed my major ended up political science, major, learn how to become a student learn how to learn and finished my bachelors, and then he said, you know, you'd be a good city manager so you should go and get a masters degree. So I said, well, all right. I'll try so I did that. I got I got a scholarship, and then selected to be a coffin fellow, and I got paid a years worth paid schooling and they pay me to go to go on an internship, all kinds of stuff started, getting a mashes great becoming town manager, and then taking over utility district down here, North Carolina almost twenty years ago. And so that's how I ended where. I am as they stumble is doubled pretty far down that rabbit hole. I would say pretty far never never planned on it. But I actually it's been a good career of like now, something, he said, reminded me, so you said, I'm trying to juxtapose the experience that you had back then with the electron ick with the boards, and the in how fast analogy is changing kind of, you know, what do you call replacing your job for lack of a better term your skill set? You what, what kind of comments thoughts you have about? There's a lot more buzz nowadays about robots replacing this robots replacing that I mean obviously, there's not a podcast about that. But I mean do you see any corollaries of parallels between what happened back to you and what's happening today to some people, you know, I do. But, you know, the history of economics in the world is always been, you know, the guy with the piece of iron replacing the guy with piece of wood, you know, the guy with the round wheel, replacing the guy with the Fred Flintstone square wheel. You know, and so the history of economics in the world has always been, you know, somebody becoming obsolete, and in lots of things will become obsolete with with robotics, drivers of cars as the perfect example, you know, driving car will be obsolete. Twenty years, you'll be able to do it, if you want to, but you won't have to. So, you know, I do see correlates I didn't understand them back, then, you know, the idea of a, I came from a solid lower class background. Nobody went school. You just got a job any job. And, you know, people just suffered through and tried to survive. So I didn't have a background people saying, you know, he should look properties. So I didn't have that mindset. You know, thought same thing, although in the military kinda learn this trade in this'll be my job. Never Kurt me at somebody or something would replace me. I would just come out when I when I, I realized I had this skills that nobody wanted it was pretty shocking. Though, you know, luckily, always had some little streak of kind of self sufficiency about me. And so I said, well, figure something else out. Well, it sounds like we'll get into it sounds like you figured it out and did pretty well for yourself. So I mean how okay. So where did real say come into the picture at what point? So real estate came in, you know, always gonna dabbled in America. We have a house, you know, so we we'd had houses that we lived in a, you know, obviously. So it always always kind of been somebody that just be coming from this poor background, if you needed something done, you just have to learn how to do it, you know. So back then there a internet you got a book. You read a book and you kinda learn to do some, if you found somebody that could meant to you that you did that, but essentially just try to kind of figured it out. So we me and my wife would have houses, and we, you know, had something to be fixed up fix the house. You know, things like that. So we kind of from from that experience, buying selling a couple in that we lived in, you know from that experience. We decided they were gonna do new construction, and we, we started out originally the idea. We're going to build this house for sells for himself on the house, and we'd. Have we'd made this Brady's amount of cash in, in in there would go good. Well, new construction turned out to be a total disaster. Learn learn a lot, but boss, the freaking boatload of money in the process of doing it on the market kind of tanked for me in the in the local area, actually, the Tennessee of working Carolina Tennessee. And so local market had kinda tanked at that time. And so we built this new construction in Seoul jet, this massive loss and a well you know, it's probably for real estate either doing that again. You know. So it took quite a while to recover from that from that loss. We lost over six figures. We lost. We lost a lot of money, and we're not people that have that kind of might lease. So, you know, so anyway, finish by finish my college degrees again job finally got a professional job, making decent money. And so we. Just essentially always pretty frugal people more or less save everything, well, after saving everything for, you know, six seven eight years or so refined had this kinda pod cash, and we wanted to do something with it. The Bank was paying nothing in interest, and we're like, well, maybe we should try this real estate thing out again. We kind of looked around our local market, and we saw you could buy some cheap houses, you know, so he said, well, we, you know, we analyzed it's death in talked about, what's sourcing half sourcing, hammers probably we go in there and refined. We can't find nobody to rent the house out and the Renner tears place up in we we bail after year or two, and hopefully we get all our money back, but accept the fact that maybe we'll lose ten fifteen twenty grand doing this hopefully not more but will give it a shot. So we, we went in kind of this time is wide open in a went in, and it was fantastic. We fixed. We bought a house really cheap. We found. House from a landlord that just wanted out what a house really cheap put a ton of sweat, equity and had rented for it was even done just, you know. The opposite last time. Yeah. Polar on somebody came by and said, you know, a, you know, I'd like to rent that house really. Wow, ephedrine reading the advertise expensive could swing couldn't swing dan- enough. So on, you know really kind of took off from from there. That was pretty much the way it went. Kind of back it up a little bit Baxter back part of that is what else was kind of a, a spur into this in the you know, I've forgotten about this. But it had a word member here my job. And so I work under because on the executive director here, so I work under elected officials annoyed had a road board member that if you know, his mission life was just get rid of know, that was his only mission, like make my life miserable. Get rid of me in he was making my life, pretty miserable for a couple years. And then one day just at a nowhere. It was. I don't know how it struck me, but I was at home or something. And I the thought occurred to me, as you know, actually, the thing that's making me miserable is not really the guy, the guy's making me miserable. That's true was really making miserable. The fact that I'm really need this job. Like I can't afford to lose the source of income. And I've got this guy kind. Kinda wielding this over me, and I thought you know, if I didn't have to have this job, it probably wouldn't bother me that much, but about this guy. And so this guy actually really spurred me action more than anything else. You know, we, we had that little pot of money. So we took that money in said how this pot of money grow. And, you know, the guy is long time I'm still here. But, you know, it turned out to be a story, and you're still here victorious does last night on the outlived out played outlast. Say there you go. Well, I'd be I'd be remiss if I didn't ask what's going back to that. That first thing you mentioned about losing all that money. I mean, what lessons did you learn obviously now you you'd never do that again. But what lessons did you learn what principles, you know, might you draw out of what you learned, you know, that you can communicate to listeners will, you know, the first thing is I think that I the first thing was, I assume that because people gave me money that I must know what I'm doing. You know, the first such. My first subsidy was well, the Bank would be giving me this money if I didn't know what I was doing. So they must I must think I'm no what I'm doing. So, you know, so that was one of the first things I really don't don't trust. Anybody else to determine your level knowledge in your ability, it wasn't that? I couldn't do these things. Just everything was way harder than I imagined. Took way longer. We built with a construction loan. And those draws. So you had to finish on how it works today. But that time you know you've finished fifteen percent of some part of the job say, you got the house frame than dried in than they would cut you a check for fifteen percent, which you then use to pay your your contract. So we g seeing ourselves. And you know what I found was the draws took forever the, the inspections because they would have to come out inspect for them, cut you chat. So the expections in the draws took forever. But the people are working, they wanna be paid. Now they don't care about your draw. They wanna get a paycheck, they gotta pay their workers. So what I found was insured. Order, you know, I was paying the people out of my pocket work in any money. I had his pain them out of my pocket and then waiting for the draws in occasionally draws did match up to what I felt the level of work that was done. So I was always juggling two pots of money on trying to people in a notice over time, just getting further and further behind on the on the. Draws and then things the Bank will say, well, you know, you, you change the you change the magnitude of the work that was being done in. So you were doing this, and that would have been worth ten thousand dollars. But you did this said, that's only worth six thousand you know, and so you know what we found was that. There was a complete disconnect between what we thought the way money was going to come in to pay these people in the way actually came in. So, you know, not certainly not enough to diligence. I thought, you know, foolishly I suppose I thought that because I could, you know, fix holes drywall in and, you know, hang a door that I knew what there was about being GC of building a house, nothing about even as much as like the property about this piece of property that we plan to build on in. I didn't even understand how to gauge the property properly, it had had septic system. And where I wanted to put the house to the county inspector came out said, no can't put it there as you have to have a septic tank there. You have to put it up here where it was four times more expensive to clear level. You know, get get the property ready. So yeah, you know what I learned is that I did not do anywhere near enough to shore. Well sounds like like I said sounds like you came out on top anyway. So, you know, I couldn't I consider that house, my own personal university in a. A you know, for a long time, I felt really bad about that. You know, that's whole situation of just kind of felt bad about myself, you know, if you lose more than hundred thousand dollars feel bad any, your warm care, one of the probably universal truth. Yeah. You're not warm Buffy probably feel bad. And I felt bad pretty bad rather for one time. And then when we finally started buying rental properties. I hit end. I realize, you know, I know how to do this, because I did this on that house in when I found was able to start applying the lessons in the knowledge, that, you know, like that house when I got close to the end, I was busted completely out of money. So I was doing a lot of things by self eating some things I had never done before. So I was learning how to hang kitchen cabinets and had putting countertops, things like that. And what was when I started by the rental properties Elise. I know hanging kitchen cab. You know, I don't have a lot of money right now. But I have some knowledge to have some have some tools have actually ended up some tools things I had to buy in order to finish that house just been sitting in storage containers for years in the suburbs. I was able to leverage that into these, these other properties. And so it made me feel a little less bad about that experience because I felt like, okay, you know, it was I didn't really lose the might was is was a really expensive university. Right. And if the, the importance of that, I deal, so it's like you never did that I deal you never would have done all the windy done since. So it's true. Look back on it. Yeah. What, what was the mount of time? That's between between that happening and you decide to go back in, like we were talking about along was that more than ten years. Oh, wow. It was more than ten years, because it took a long time. Like I say, we were people have very low means it's a long time to clean up all those bills now. Well, that's that's inspiring that you came to that realization on your own to get back into it. You know, I don't know that a lot of I don't know that a lot of people would have gone back on that horse. So you should definitely be proud of that decade. You know, one thing I'm really proud of about that even though we lost a boatload of money was disaster. Everybody got paid. We did not default anything. You know, we were not laid on anything even though sometimes we were down the eating freaking Raymond noodles. But we everybody got their money. You know, when at the end of the day, you know, when it came a choice between DOI Raman noodles, dry payout that check to this guy, I paid out the check and eight Raymond news. You know, a pretty proud of the fact that and breach of fact that we didn't divorce or, or something else, you know, just have fights and things in real easy to just, you know, blame each other. And, you know, I was probably the ringleader this thing the most far so been really easy to have a bad relationship after that. And, you know, we never got that we, we kinda stopped him. Well, you know, this is what it is. And, you know, hey will will fix it into admitted as long fix it. But, you know, we precip eared. So you're right. That's, that's a good insight because I don't I can't imagine a lot of people that would not turn on each other in that. That's an area. So that's awesome that you that you guys were able to stay. Together during that for sure. And and as I'm in the I don't know. We didn't talk about it. But I'm in the construction business myself in it. I would say you're, you're definitely a unicorn when it comes to in owner that cares so much about the guys getting paid. You know what I mean? Because you basically took the brunt that G C ended up taking a lot, you know, the good she sees that, that stick around that they're sub stick around. And that's unfortunately something that happens to GC's from time to time, you know. So that's, but my point being is I don't I don't think a lot of people would have done that. So again, that's something to be proud of for sure. So. Well, another way that served me well, is that when we started working with the rental properties it. Oh, Embry short order. I ended up with fairly loyal group of subs. You know that work on my properties today, even though, you know, we're, we're not toll brothers have some crazy, number properties, the people that, that do work for H, fat guy, Luke Trish in our Plummer in these people. They draw other points to fix our stuff. You know they they. You know, I can send them out to job and only have to go out there and check job. You know, I know they're gonna do a job when they do it, right. And, you know, we've for, you know, for Bruce mall operation, we've really garnered a appre loyal following with the subs that we use the things that are just, you know, expertise either beyond my ability, or things just don't want to deal with one of the other, and, you know, imparted, I think, has been the lesson in part of it was because grew up really poor. And so I saw how it was when, you know, people who didn't have a lot, we're kinda shafted, you know, so. So I always had that lesson anyway. You know, in part was just my upbringing that you took care. You're obligated you know if you've made this mess than you clean it up. You know, my, my grandparents they were very people of low means retaliates, but they, you know, they never defaulted anything do the same thing. My grandfather, would you would have eight nothing before he let Bill go. And so, you know, we'd kinda learn that as well. And so, you know, that experience with the with the contractors, you know, a I think that has served us well in business because because we, you know, I hear harsh mother people, I'm like, oh, you know some some things as true. I mean I have trouble keeping like general handymen, you know, things like that there's loud confli by night. People have had trouble that might big trades. The they'll drop other appointments to keep mine, or the reschedule, somebody else to fit in, you know, that's you know, for somebody that's my size, which is not very big. It's pretty free press. Oh, yeah, I agree. And again, I got a little bit of insight into that in the construction game in, you're right? It's, it's, it's definitely a relationship game for sure. So what is your done sound like you're doing a lot of new construction corrective wrong? So what's your current strategy with your current strategy? Look like you know kinda describe from that from that first one. One after ten year break, you know what is everything? Look like from that point to now, you know what have you been doing? Okay was, you know, from that point to now, the strategy was just to buy it saw in our opting. We're in a college town, and we saw what we thought was opportunity to buy some smaller single family houses in, like so we'd side. We'd start with one. See how that went by some smaller single family houses. You know, go the low risk ground pay cash for them and fix them up. Try to get them rented MC where it went to. So we ended up with dozen houses, most of them, we own free and clear. You don't we don't have any, you have a little bit of leverage on some of them, but, but not much our overall portfolio is probably seventy five to twenty five percent cash to leverage. So a pretty low pretty conservative, you know, it's, it's a conservative way to go. I know. But it's one that we're you know, we've been happy with because, you know, as people lost of money before it's, you know, it's, it's a slow way, but it's a Safeway can't put a price on being able to sleep at night. Right. That's right. It's done really. Well, and, you know, I can have houses that I could rent for a hundred dollars and I would still make money. Always looked at us like, well, if I could if I can structure this thing to in some way, that in a worst case scenario, complete economic collapse and people can only afford to pay fifty percent of the rent they're paying now. I could still make money enough. Probably set it off the right way in so, so essentially, that was the that was the strategy in lately of thought more about leveraging a little bit more. And, and, you know, trying to expand this empires as it is. To something a little bit bigger. But you know, I mean I gotta say have gotten you know what I consider pretty wealthy off what I've done so. Well, that's, that's awesome. I mean what, what what's led you do? You have a desire to do it. Fulltime is interesting to me that you, you describe rattled off a lot of activities, you know, the, the band, the, the real estate fulltime job. I mean do you like what are some of the challenges with having a fulltime job in having this expanding empire on the side? Well, you know, one thing I've had learn his head learn how to systematize things because, you know, I spend a better part of the week here, when job of God, I have pretty good leeway construction my day, but most days, I'm here at the office. And so, you know, I'm not available because I work at work fifty miles from where my properties, are, you know, so it's not like I can run over there something goes wrong. We deal with that. So you know what I what I learned? Well, if I'm going to run this business on the side than I've gotta have systems in place order to in order to do this. I mean, you know, my wife helps run into the we all my leases electron IX, for example, all my payment methods are either Tronc or go to the Bank and sells have dedicated Bank account set up where they make throw deposits, all of my service calls. Ado service requests, they do text or through Email of, you know, most of my mic contractors that ideal like, you know, h plumbing things like that. Most me with through text occasionally through phone call, really to be on site, all invoices are paid. We, we pay invoices once week invoices are paid electronially possible. If not ready check, but you know what I found was once I get an hour and the other thing is, we take house, and we re rehab it from the top the bottom at the beginning. So when I get this house, and it's more or less wreck will go in and all the stuff that has good chance of. Breaking bad roof. You know, heating system a water heater, an old electric panel those things we replace all this all stuff is brand new. So when people get in there is pretty few things ago wrong in not never anything ever goes wrong. But I have houses that I spent two three hours on a year, you know, and that's you know, essentially, it's not even the part time job. That's just, you know that's just kinda checking up on him. While in a while fell my wife, Dr item nature, the house, still, there, most people spend that much time a day on social media. This next. The other thing thing is, is trying to, you know, learning how to use my time effectively. So non Facebook on Twitter, you know, I don't I don't do any of those things. And so think that's kind of. I may not be timewasters just as high use it. But for a lot of people's time wasters. Timewasters for other people. I just don't take part in. I you know, my hobby is making money. Yeah. That's not a bad hobby. I think I think we'll learn, you know, fifty years from now be interested to look back and see what we've learned about social media. Again, that's a whole rabbit hole. But the way that it's mused obviously, it's a tool, but the way that it's used I think there's, there's probably some harmful effects there for sure. So we'll see. But I think there is, you know, there's also, you know, when it comes I mean, there's ways of those things are oppa -tunities, too. Sometimes I rhyme, which if I was a little bit younger, I would be add be a little bit more savvy at using those things not that I can't learn to learn, but, you know, those things like grew up with you know, so if there's, there's opportunities there for sure, I know people that have done pretty well just working social media angles. You know, so if I get to the point where I've got enough properties or you know, we're branching out to doing some property management. So, you know. At that time. I mean, I have I have some pretty reasonable skills, I have a website in our application processes, automated online. So you'll be able to do those things. But yeah, you know, social media definitely be harmful. But, you know, it's like it's like everything else. I look around there's opportunities everywhere, you know, there's just not enough meat. Take advantage of all them. Well, the I like one thing that he said, I'm going back to the guy who was, you know, a thorn in your side for years. I like. And I'm just trying to draw for myself draw principle out of that. Is that you seem like you ended up doing? He said, okay. What can I control the situation, obviously, you can't control how how he acts towards you, you know, he said, okay, instead of just being instead of continuing to be the victim here. What can I do to make it to where what can I control to make it to where he doesn't have that control over me? And it sounds like that had a great positive effect. And I think that's applicable all across the monumental mindshift. I, I don't think I can I don't think I can speak loud enough at the, the shift that took place in my mind when I realized that it was like in a brand new door. I kid you not. I hated that guy. I mean I hated him with the passion, hymns a smart guy gets good ideas. He was just a really, really hateful purse of an eye. Hated that guy. And he mickan somebody's made me a job. I love my job. You know, but I when I when I realized that, you know, the, the real problem here was me in the problem really wasn't the guy when I had a chance to look at, I'm like, you know, eventually, this guy's gonna die, or voted off or move away or something else. But still the another guy down the road. You know what's this guy is only guys ever gonna make, you know, or or wanna wanna get at me or get rid of me or something like that. That doesn't make any sense when I realized that, hey, you know what you responsibility in this would you care if you were finally independent, you know, if you had, if you had half a million dollars in the Bank, would you care disguise bugging? You'd probably just blow it off because if he manages garner the votes get ready well of another job. Maybe I won't work at all, you know, who knows figured out in, you know, switching that making switch and opening at door. I feel like that opened everything. Like a floodgate opened in now, you know, that realization found me reading books, like your money, your life by Vicki Robin, which is to this day, one of my favorite books. You know you talk about that. I've never heard of that one. Yeah. So, you know, I never until I read her book, end somehow had to instinctively, I kind of had the sense of, you know, when you go to work, whatever you work at, you know, you're, you're making a change your exchanging your time, which is finite. You know you were only here for however many years here for this dollar and, you know, I never you know, I'd like buying stuff, and I've bought plenty of foolish things wasted money dump stuff. Even of us a been relatively frugal, my life, but still burned away, plenty of money that I wish I would head back, but never really made the connection between the hours of my life in those things. And when I when I read her book, and I put together the idea. Wow, you know, I bought you know, I don't know something something dumb the cost one hundred dollars back in time when maybe I was making ten dollars an hour and put it together awhile. That was ten hours of my life for that thing. You know, when I when I made the connection, you know is like mystery show never made the connection, you know, when, when I made the connection between the hours of my life, when's that thing and I started to realize, you know, I'm burning the way maion finite resource for this thing. It's now worth fifty cents that I would probably never buy again. If I if I thought better, but it all when I started translating, everything I did. From like doing currency conversion. You know you go to your you know, Japan and you figure out convert dollars, again, this was meet configuring how to convert hours of my life, the dollars to the joy getting out of whatever it was. I was buying in when I when I figured that out while won't buy hardly any of this stuff. I would never trade, you know, day of my life for that thing. There's no way you know. And when I made that shifted, accelerated, our savings rate by doing nothing. I didn't really do anything different other than become more conscious and cognizant of, of, of how I expanded my life energy, my dollars, you know, when I realized that, that dollar spending, that's my life energy. I put my time into that dollar to get the dollar news fall out of retrea into my hand, and when I started doing that left are realizing, hey, I really don't want that thing. I'm pretty happy that the thing I have were, you know, I'm willing to wait and see if it goes on sale. Or I'm willing to forgo that altogether finding alternative, you know something of that nature. And what I found was in just as a natural progression of that. Our savings rate, accelerated, to this point rose than we had this big pod cash in the Bank that we use to go buy rental property for cash, you know, without even ever setting out to do it. If we never stood out say, we're going to save his money, and then go buy property, we just when would net switch was thrown it just became a natural outgrowth of it, it sounds like did you as you attach a certain meaning to that hundred dollar transaction was no longer ominous. Spend a hundred bucks it was I'm going to sacrifice XYZ future goal. Okay. Yeah. Attaching meaning to strategically in with intention attaching meaning to things. I think is one of the most powerful mindset tools that, that's available to us as humans for sure yet, I think, you know, I think it's impossible to really be, you know, to wrapping this investing, whether it's real estate or anything else, I think it's impossible to be good at that short of just inheriting some bucket of money without understanding the ability to become intentional about your life about choices you make about the, the trade offs because everything is a trade off. You know, I listen to, you know, a plug other people's gas. It's all good. But follow pan afford anything, she's got great podcasts in, you know, one of the things she says the opening every, you know, you can you can afford anything but not everything everything's a trade off in being cognizant and understanding what the trade offs are things is what you have friends. That say. The they'll say, you know, I consider them done things. They'll say things like a wish I could have rental property, while you could have rental property in there's nothing stopping on a no. You know genius at this. I haven't, I don't have any special skills during this. I just made a conscious decision that, you know, instead of instead of buying, you know, fifteen dollars lunches every day and having to have three new cars in this period and you know, spending on things that I think, are, are not worthwhile in the long term was going to take that money and put into something that made money you know, and I didn't do anything special than become more deliberate about the choices I made, you know, and you could do the same thing if you willing to become delivered, or most of them are not willing to become delivered so, you know, they, they want rent, they want money property want the words, you know, they, they weren't there, watching me smash walls down, you know, sweat it to clock in the morning covered drywall dust and things like that. But, but. But the point being that in if you become delivered about things if you're not deliver it, then you're just gonna lose if you try to invest anything, if you're not deliberate choices believe you'll lose your that's for sure, whether it's whether it's stocks real estate. You know anything you doing that? If you're not delivered about the way you're doing then you're just floating through air, and you're not conscious about choices you're making, it's gonna be really difficult thing, you know, the success, we've had real estate, a large part of it is because, you know, we went into it with a plan, okay? Original plan, what we're going to try this and see if it works. But, you know we had we did have a game plan in once we saw what the game plan was even before we started. We sat down and said, okay. Well, we wanna own rental property. What kind of Tennessee we wanna have you know what? Income level wants to have who we wanna cater to what area of this town. We wanna own property yet, you know. And we really kind of set out a kind of opening master plan, you know, things changed here and there, but we were delivered about the choices. We're gonna make it. So we didn't just go up by every house. We saw, you know, we, we looked at a house Mace. Okay. How does this kind of fit into this picture and things of finish the picture we bought, and they've been wildly successful, only through deliberation in an I trace at all kind of back to that, same that same realization that, wow, you can really if you think about it, you can really be conscious of how you're, you know how you're acting you know, in how you're making choices you're forgetting your spending in your investing, and, and what you do with those things even conscious of the fact that, you know, one of the things Allen sound like an anti rich guy, you know, grownup, always oh, those people rich because they're you know, they doing. The reason they're rich on the other step on the heads of all the poor people. Yeah. It's, you know, some in some cases as troop what, you know what I realize, you know, I read the book the millionaire next door by Thomas Stanley. And you know what I realize after? Listen read that book actually think listened to it. I do a lot of listening because I spend a lot of time driving. But, but after a read that book I thought, you know, the difference between the poor in the wealthiest the, the wealthy get a dollar and they say how can I make this dollar make another dollar? You know, and the poor get a dollar, and they say, how can spend this dollar? You know how can I extract maximum immediate gratification out of this dollar? You know, and, you know, meaty gratification comes across you know, there's a cost to that unknown most people if they were more delivered about their lives and more conscious they would say, well, you know, I could skip those that, you know, fifty dollar movie night and just. Stay with Netflix. And some, you know, microwave popcorn is pretty fun, too. You know, but they don't think about just, you know off you go. And then all of a sudden, when you wake you don't have any money, right? And I think I think what people don't understand the moment that you see it's hard until you see direct link between that missing that fifty dollar movie and the reward. Right. So the moment you know, I'm just assuming I'm sure you're on the same page, but, you know, he say, you know, you're not gonna movie because we wanna do this once he started cheating that this. I think, you know, it's like, okay, how many where else can we take away those movie nights to, to sooner get to that goal that we want? And you know it's not always this intangible things like once those results start coming in. It's just that whole reinforcing snowball. And that's that's powerful think. Yeah, that's the thing you know, success definitely beget success. And that does I found curious you know what I found curious me and my wife had this conversation. A couple of months ago that we said, you know, isn't curious how all of a sudden, you know, now that we don't need the money because really don't need money of glad to have it. But Amanda point, our don't eat it. We said, you know, isn't curious all of a sudden, now that we don't need the money, money just falling from all over the place e turn around. There's just open the mailbox money there for some reason, your mailbox number notice. But, you know, I got you just, you know, so curious from back in the days when we had no money and were living hand to mouth paycheck to paycheck, you couldn't the dollar anywhere. You know, it seems like you're always Nate ball. The car broke down yet ago, put it on the credit card and you, you were at a point where electrical on the phone Bill both came in, but you also the groceries so which choice you may, you know, and you know, it seemed like back then milers is never enough money. But the, you know, again, neither one of us really had a whole lot of experience with living consciously making making conscious choices even when we when we built, the house made seem like seem like we're kinda conscious but we floated away through because we didn't go. We didn't even have an exit plan. We start, you know, and so when in the days, when we didn't have any money, it seemed like there was never a dollar to be had. You know, now, sudden, when, when it's, you know, everywhere it's all of a sudden, you turn around just looking everywhere it is kind of like the. Magnetic principally. And just kind of kind of in tracks itself. It in it's really it's, it's I find it kind of ironic. It's the it's the, you know, the, the dichotomy things for the Poor's that, you know, they Ahmad the a lot of people who report, they make poor decisions in just the fact Amarah, I've been for. So I, I mean, I know that, but the, you know, the, the decisions end up being, you know, for examples, so I have I have a credit card that I put more or less everything on. You know and card is gives me two percent cashback on everything. I buy at the end of the month. I don't write your checks, any more Votto Bank. But at the end of the month, I write one check and pay that card full of never paid five cents interest on that card numbers. And when they had sat down I've had these cashback cards now. Maybe fifteen years, pretty, pretty close and a couple of different ones. But all of them roughly about anywhere from two to six percent cashback. I said, then one-time figured I'd gotten like ten thousand dollars cash back from these cards of things that I had the buy anyway, groceries gasoline, things like that. The you know how the going rate is able to happen because I can just write a check at the end of the month. I don't have to pay interest and I could pay the thing off full and so they're Pence actually paying me. Use these cards. I call getting my money back because all years when I was. Car payment credit card credit card companies love you. I'm sure and event two or three those cash cards chancellery, because I don't pay any truce, right? Yeah. I think I've got I've forget, I think I heard Clark Howard radio show someday. There's a name for that people call that people call because on the same way, I've I pay off at the end of the month. But it's there's a name for I don't wanna I don't want to time trying to think of it. But because you're not their target demographic in terms of the way you're using it for sure. So is right. I've always found that curious. Let's that's just one of those opportunities that, you know, I get money back to leave a need because able to take advantage of the opportunities there. Because the money is there where somebody doesn't have the money has to carry the balance than they paid the enters, you know. So, I find that, you know, it's, it's curious thing, but such as the way the economy is structured, so, well, I like the segue into a little bit talked about intentional living, and in deliberate living are there any success habits or any habits that you would say are contribute to your success, or your continued success that you think are important. You know, the two things always tell people, I say, there's no substitute for perseverance hard work. I don't think there's a don't think there is, you know, owning these properties. The beginning was not easy, nor was fixing the mess that we were left, you know that we made that wasn't easy. Saving the money, you know it wasn't easy. Not going -cation someplace, you know, fancy when we had money sitting in the Bank account, you know, driving old car, when it could go by newer car. None of those things were easy and some of the face will be did sweat equity came in. Did the demo or clean up, you know, working in cross face in having a sewer pipe bust? You know on your back, you know, none of that stuff was easy is that was all hard work, you know, and I don't think there's any substitute around the hard work at builds character, but, you know, it gives you the ability to kinda see. Okay, you know, this isn't bad, because I've had it worse. You know. So, and I think that most things that are worth having there's gonna be some kind of effort involved in, in a one of the, you know, I don't wanna get political or anything like that. But I think that, you know, I don't think we should give anything away to people because I think people don't. Value stuff that they don't work for. You know, I say work, there's so many things in this country needs doing I could look around and find box things that, you know, I love the idea of a of a young person draft for not just military, you know, for fraud kinds of things, there's highways needs cleaning parks and, you know, there's elderly people need sitting with people need child care. And so there's so many opportunities but you giving people a chance to work and feel good about what they're doing. Creating the greatest thing ever about the military for me gave me a chance to work for something and have a result at the end of. So I don't think there's any substitute for hard work in there is no substitute for perseverance because, you know, you're gonna hit walls, you're gonna hit walls, when no matter what you try to do. You can't you can't find financing the Bank tells, you know, you know, a place those vacant, you know, contractors don't show up Cheerios, get stolen. Yeah. A flood that, you know, you're gonna hit these walls. And if you can't push through, you know, when one of the now, some people would say, it's not endearing the land, one of the qualities. I have is that a ab- knowingly probably persists and. You know, I just don't take a don't take failure very well. I don't want, you know, maybe failures on the right word. I don't take you know, kind of not cheating, what I set out to do very well. So I will persist two point I actually was became a Qatar in band, a good of big pretty decent size local ban years ago, because every time I saw my said, hey, I love your band. And if you're ever decides to quit unit call, you know, after a while you have to see me for four or five years and tell him saying thing when they retire player in gift you up. Just a sheer persistence of the play the guitar. I do. Okay. But, but at that point you played guitar right? You didn't say that. You had the skills already right? That would be impressive. If you were. Yeah. That were impressive. Yeah. Well, it sounds like you don't like to fill yourself, which is a good quality. You don't like to fill promises that you make to yourself. It sounds like a you know, I try to be too hard on my stuff think, but I'm you know if I sit out to get something done. There's a pretty good chance. It's gonna get done. Mean it's you know, it's I built a car once out of boxes. I bought a car once that was a guy had, I'd always love Mustang. Senate always wanted an old Mustang like an affordable. One day, I saw an ad the guy had an ad for old, sixty seven Mustang convertible for two thousand dollars thought. Wow. That's crazy. It's you can't buy convert anywhere near that price. I called the guy up in. He said, well, he said used have to see it. He said, it's good carbon. You'll have to see it. So I drove down see the car all the karma's there, but it had clearly disassembled in put in the boxes because. He was going to restore the sadness garage for ten or fifteen years, disassembled till finally wipes, get that junk Gada here. So that guy's name. Johnny cash, did he take out one piece at a time? Yeah. I ended up buying this car was boxcar is. Yes. Sorry, I got dad jokes. So that's pretty good as Scott trench. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, but cool bought this car boxes of the guy taken every bolt nut. Screw on a car, you can mention me Bolton. Screws were in a car, and he had taken all of them in thrown him into one five gallon bucket with no labels every bull home and went on the car, and I dump that bumped that five gallon bucket out of Bolton. Connectors on a tarp in my garage, I spent weeks separating those bolts, but eventually got most, and I put this car back together from boxes of my wife, when she saw she said, you're never gonna put that car back together. And I said, not only put that correct number drive it, and I drove that car for three years than they sold. It four times at that's awesome. That's awesome. That sounds like a navy guys thing to do. Persistence. You know, I got a credit military because when I was on my shift, especially the there was no such thing, as it just can't be done. It was just how are you going to do it? You know, I'm saying it's like same thing in the army. Yeah. I mean, I'm just I'm imagining people dumping of, you know, we've had soldiers like dump a bunch of machine gun parts on tarp in this. I'm not going to be able to put that together not only are you going to be able to do it, but you're going to blindfolded you know, you're gonna do it in the dark and they're able to do it. And then the confidence that comes from that is, is amazing. That's right. You know, you give them those parts and you say, well, you know, you either gonna put these together you're gonna have nothing to fight with when when guys coming over the hill, you're going to be fighting with sticks and rocks. So the put these gather you're gonna be doing that. You know, people figure out a way, and that was something really credited to the military that they, you know, cut instill that sense of I can do that. Specially remember when the first on the gas me to go these? Yeah. That was the way going to guess chamber. You know, and I went in and it was hell I'm tracking. Yeah. Tracking it was terrible. But I actually didn't I didn't die. That's a good bonding. Experience gets. Yeah. Good, good memories, heart. Well, here's, here's a here's two questions for you. No wrong answers. So I one in their related first one is what is go big mean to you. And as a related question. Now what does success look like for you, as a JD Martin go big to me means? You know, thinking through what you really want and being intentional in your life. You know, it's really easy. Have somebody earlier today? What's my favorite saying my favorite saying, my wife would tell you this, too week you wake up on your debt, and you know what that needs some voters that meet, what that means is that, you know, life is over like that, you know, your life is blink of an eye. And, you know, I I wake up today while this old them this fat Melissa cry in this ball would happen. You know, this wasn't me. You know, but we're going to talk. Right. You know it's, it's so easy to, to live unintentionally to all of a sudden wake-up, realize while I wanted to have this, and I never got anywhere near that is because I never even sat down to think about a how to get that be do. I really wanted. See what, what choices I have to make to get there. You know what, what's my roadmap? And, you know, to me, go big is, is an idea having a big life, having big life doesn't mean a jet Italy, you know, jumping stikes creepers things that if that's your definition of a great, you know, to me, it's, it's living the life of intense. Yahoo that of is the structure you wanted. You're not just a victim of your circumstances victim of life happening to you that you've, you've structured some way that it, it works for you. That's awesome. And I totally agree with the goodness. Said it better myself. And what, what? So then handed hand with that. I mean what is success look like for you? What are you shooting for? So success for me, you know close to retirement. I'm not retarded unlike my job, you know, in a few years, retire exactly when that will be once once I do that it will, you know, I played up a professional ban a like it, we, you know, we're, we're not gonna be the Rolling Stones or anything like that. But I have had a song of mine played at Super Bowl real suitable really at the puppy. Is there joke there who, who told you? There was the puppy bowl. Jeez. That's a good show too. You say you want to expand on that a little bit. I we have we, we cut a CD about five or six years ago, I can't remember when and, and a club the we played at the sound man had about. He got picked up the work in the NASCAR circuit. And so he put our CD into rotation on the NASCAR circuit. And then he got hired to work for the Tennessee tights, NFL team. So then he put our, our CD in the rotation there. And then from there, he just liked to be part of the sound group for the Super Bowl with the forty Niners Raymond's whichever one that was out six seven years ago. And when so he was able to put our, our CD in the not the housing one song and CD in the rotation for that Super Bowl. So awesome. So grants for that. That's cool. Minutes fame, right? Yeah. That's all. So, you know, so for me success is living reasonably healthy, having good relations, my wife, you know, being able to do the things that I wanna do, which is pretty much what I do. Now, you know, expand maybe expanding the Reynolds, a little bit of pre happy with level or at, you know, I make more than of my nine need to live off shore. So you know, in and hopefully in hopefully being able to one thing about a teach in the teaching is more or less say, I don't teach for free, but also close to free as she could get, you know, and I love the teaching because I thought, you know, when I got into public service, I liked it because of that. Well, I can help shake this town or this utility, and provide really good product improve that government doesn't have to be, you know, this wasteful poorly. Run thing, there's nothing inherited government that doesn't have to recant run. Well and. A proven that new organizations that have led. So you know what I found in teaching was that entailing your reach become so expanded. I mean it's it's like the compounding effect of interest, you know that okay. When I when I work this job, a fact this town in this area, and that there is some effect as people move say while, might my town really, well this town runs crappy was still differ, Bazzi gonna have that affect way, found teaching is you, you get other people on the same on the same wavelength in thinking about things, the same way in how they can give back and how they can make their community better and how it's important for them to be engaged in their own communities, and they go out, and I've got students now that teaching for fourteen years now and I've got I have students on their town managers all over the country. And you know, work in, in Washington in some of the bigger, you know, organizations some of the administration's, there's this compound. Ding affect that. I know from my own personal experience, my, my mentor, Joe course our you know, he, he was black sheep in the department because he loved teaching love to make sure that the students learn, you know, in a lot of a lot of people university, they wanna have name recognition. They wanna have enrollment numbers, they wanna have, you know, things that, that really don't make a difference in the scheme of the world. They're just kind of puffery stuff in makes them feel good makes them look good. It doesn't change anything about society, you know, Joe was never about that. He was about engaging students. And, you know, I found telling he passed away five, six years ago, and when he passed away, you know, the, the faculty was, you know, faculty members. They said they said nice things about him the students were just chore up over, 'cause he was easily the most popular professor in the program, you know, because he made a difference in these people's lives, the other people. May had name recognition than you know, they may have been they may the university. My felt good about the but the people that mattered those were the ones that were really affected. And so, you know, to me success is just trying to of leave this rock a little better than I found it. That's awesome. Well, it's an inspiration. I I'm inspired so appreciate you. Yeah. Well, all right. Let's move on to go with the go. Go big gauntlet forbid, four basic questions on asking everybody. So I wanted to softball once your favorite real estate book, my favorite real estate book right now, I'd have to say is gonna be by rent rehab refinance and repeat by David green? You can get a bigger pockets bookstore. You can get on Amazon David Greene. This guy's monster. He's, you know, I call them I know 'cause I moderate forms over there. So I know know colloquially in his insurance, you can know somebody that. Right. But, you know, I call the sky Drago he's remember the rocky movie when Drago 'cause I, I'm going to break you, you know. Picture. David Greene, whenever I think Drago as this guy, he's a monster of he manages to get done is unbelievable. Works like three full-time jobs. As was right books. You know, just baffled by this guy. But is book is great. You know, I thought when I got a guide advanced copy of it before it come out in, you know, a lot of books are you get a book in? It's one hundred twenty pages and the fine to fourteen fine, and it takes up fifty percent of the page, and there's a picture on every third pain, you know, it's like a panel, not a lot of meat on the bone. Yeah. This thing is like the store. I mean it is just, you know, you have to I mean it took some work to get through it. And when I got through that was like I mean, been doing this report, a while, and I learned stuff that I know you know, so I think it's a great book for somebody look and just get in give the feet wet in learn how to do this for shore. Good. Good recommendation. I haven't picked up yet but I've heard about it. So you gotta I gotta get on that aren't. So number two, something that you're glad you failed at something. I'm glad I feel that was probably the is my saying. Admits probably the new construction, because it because it became the foundation for any even to this day. I always say got lost all that money, you know, they say that, you know, same person's gonna wish they lost money. But, but when I when I look at it kind of look at his disinterested party and looked at a Jackley, you know, so many the future success, I had, I can trace back to that, you know, massive failure, but I mean it took it took a pretty big leap of faith, just to, to even try something like that. And it didn't work out. It just didn't work out. But it created so much knowledge opportunities in the future that, you know, I can't complain said it's just my expensive university. Yeah. As mindset. So our number three, if you could go back in time, knowing what, you know, now, what would you have done sooner of what if I can go back in time, I tell everybody, I would have bought the first thing I would have done is I would house hacked a house, either a wreck that I was gonna flip or that I was going to hold in turn into a rental or duplex that I would I live in dirtbag side ran out the good side. But I would have I would have lived in the worst possible conditions. Got that house running. And then if I had to move Linden, my van while I started the next one until I had a fleet houses because in my case here, you know, I've tried, and I've been pretty well at it, but, you know, spend a lot of time making up for lost years. I mean there's just there's no getting time back. You know, you can't, you can't go in reverse so last Sixers seven years, especially we've really supercharged things just because, you know, we're closer to the end of life. The beginning, you know. And, you know, if I if I was doing all over again, in my twenties for sure what have done that because there's no substitute for the power of compound and time, you know. So that's what I would have done our final question. What's made you successful in business, where so many others failed being persistent being willing to put in the hard work, you know, having some kind of an picture in mind in the back that living deliberately living consciously you'll having some some idea on what I would you know what the picture would look like when I was finished finished. But, but having some game plan, you know, the, the idea, the Alice in wonderland, you know, which, which I take or you wanna go, I don't know will take any door because it doesn't really matter. Right. You know, if you don't know where you wanna go than. How will you get there? You know, being able to kind of be conscious in your mind in figure out. Okay. I wanna go here. So what are the steps that need to take their and may not work out? Exactly way. But there's a lot better chance of working out that way than if you just wing it. And so, you know, I would say, you know, say persistence hard work, you know, being being able to, to stick out tough stuff. Awesome. JD. I that's about. That's about it. I think we're going to wrap it up. What, what you know what can people do to connect with you? Learn more about you, and that kind of stuff. Okay. Well, it can they can find me they can only Integra pockets of over there, quite a bit. So just look for JD Morton's. Pretty find me. I have a ban, which is the rhythm brewers. They can go to my website, which is bur verse dot com. And if they're anywhere around here, then come see us, and I have a little website called biz brainstorms dot com. And you can go there. And if you wanna spend fifty nine bucks than get some get some free coaching Allie. Allie charge a little bit of nominal money to separate the, the week from the chefs so to speak. But a lot of people out there, it's kinda my way, give it back doesn't make any money. But it's you know, something I do too. You know, try to a wish it had some mentors. You know, if I could have paid somebody fifty bucks for started Bill house. Boy, I would've done it in a heartbeat. You know so now so I do that. You know, it takes a little bit of my time. So those are the place you could him not really on social media like that. The band does my is my favorite spot. So go to rhythm Burs dot com. Check this out. Awesome. Well, JD? I appreciate talking to you, man. I love it, pay great. It's been great. You got you gotta pretty impressive. Bile enjoyed reading, bet your background and your you're climbing your mountain climbing stuff. You gets my shackles thinking about. Spurs while you're going to great heights in life. So crap now. That's now. Another dad joke. Another joke on the on the courting. All right. Talk to you later. All right. Hey, thanks a lot. All right, everyone. That was the envy with JD Martin sorry for all the dead jokes. That's it's kind of my thing. So if you don't like that, then you probably should leave because I don't know that I can turn that off or else, I'd be acting. Can't do that either. So, so anyways, that was a good talk with JD. I came away from it feeling inspired. I'm sure you did as well. We talked about his mindset. We really went down that rabbit hole, which I loved love talking about mindset and JD's, just a great, inspirational example of how you can do it. You can you can't do it in I love. I, I was thinking of as we were talking, I was thinking of guiding Jesse. It's ler who's been all over plenty of podcast. And he talks about the concept of, you know, he takes. Let's say he's fifty years old, and he's expected in his family to live until sixty five well, you know, he looks at that and he says, okay? I've got fifteen summers left. You know, he's I've got five summers left. He brings it down to a number. That means something. You know, he doesn't say I've got seven thousand two hundred seventeen days left. Then you say, oh, I got plenty of time he says, I've got fifteen summers too big to go on fifteen vacations with my family, and that's it or I've got four summers left with my parents that, you know, that are going to make a difference. And when you start putting things in that perspective and living intentionally towards towards what you want and realizing in realizing how short our time really is. It's very motivating release, it is for me, and I hope it is for you to and I love. And I love what he said. You know, he said his favorite quotes, JD said, is you wake up and you're dead. And now that's a primate that the episode title, but it just makes you think so, I hope you enjoy the interview, hope you go, check out his band. I'm about to go check out his band soon done recording this. So I, I enjoyed talking to JD, if you want to reach out to me, you can find me at go big real estate, podcasts dot com. If you're enjoying the show. Please stop what you're doing. And go subscribe rate, and review the show, and I tunes, that's very helpful for me. And if I can do anything for you, please don't hesitate to reach out and we'll see next week. This is your host under lock signing off. Thanks for listening to this episode of the go big real estate podcast whine show notes links, and more tips on going. Big at WWW dot go. Big real estate, punt casts dot com.

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February 16, 2020: How to cover 'creeping authoritarianism;' newfound media scrutiny of Michael Bloomberg's campaign; which Democrats are winning the TV primary?

Reliable Sources with Brian Stelter

40:15 min | 10 months ago

February 16, 2020: How to cover 'creeping authoritarianism;' newfound media scrutiny of Michael Bloomberg's campaign; which Democrats are winning the TV primary?

"Hey grab a coffee come on in. I'm Brian stelter. And this is reliable. Sources our weekly. Look at the story behind the story. So let's get right to this hour. President Trump bringing back hope AKA hex. I'll speak with two authors who have new insight into all the DC swamping US plus Democrats TV primary continues with Bloomberg buying his way to the top with these ads. In Carmona's here talk about. Who's winning the AD war more later? The growing crisis in local news and why democracy is suffering as a result a duly K. Brown of the Miami Herald reportedly investigated. Jeffrey up St and will be here to tell us about the fate of her paper and other papers owned by mcclatchy now. The company IS GOING BANKRUPT. The first the aspiring autocrat and the media's response as this banner on Faulk says President Trump is on leased. And that's why there are growing fears. Something called Democratic backsliding. This is a term used in political science a term used to describe the erosion of institutions that sustain democracy. Another way to put it is creeping authoritarianism. A move toward autocracy now. That's a word. We are increasingly seen being tied to president trump. You can see in some of these headlines from the past week trump's authoritarian styles remaking America. Things like that. Not a lot of these are opinion columns perspective pieces but these are important and complicated concept. My question for you is. How can the nation's news media make time and space to explain this? I mean we live in this new story every minute invo saturated world but this may be the biggest story of the mall. So what are the best way is to cover it? One way is with a list professor. Stephen Walt has been keeping a checklist. Ever since two thousand sixteen he called it ten ways to tell if your president is a dictator now. He wasn't saying trump's a dictator but it was watching troubling signs so he revisited the list this week. And you'll notice the check marks here. He said after impeachment the president has been passing most of the checkpoints on the way to authoritarianism on his list or things like fearmongering demonizing the opposition and using state power to reward corporate backers and punish opponents. Does that sound familiar? Look Forms of government exist on a spectrum? It's not just democracy or dictatorship. It's not black or white. There are dozens of shades of gray. That's why political scientist talk about political Democratic backsliding it's important recognize that some people are predisposed to a certain amount of authoritarian thinking. This shows up all the time in polling. Some people feel there's too much democracy and they seek a so called strong leader strongman who will put up walls and protect their way of life and punish their enemies. These people have an outsized fear of threats and a desire to take action against those threats. That feelings always been there. Most Americans don't feel that way but it's always been there. It's been there for a long time. I mean experts in this field are always careful to say that these challenges democracy did not start with trump's election but as the group Freedom House put it the president. Has It worse than this picture? He is sailed essential institutions and traditions. Including this is a list here. The separation of powers a free press and independent judiciary the impartial delivery of justice safeguards against corruption and most disturbingly legitimacy of elections and Congress hasn't pushed back enough. So let's make our own list of this week's news I separation of powers. Well trump has been challenging. The Legislative Branch is constitutionally mandated power of the purse because he's been diverting Pentagon money to build more border wall. All right. How about an independent judiciary well. This week he attacked a federal judge. The woman who will be sentencing his friend. Roger Stone very soon the press well of course his proposed budget will not actually be enacted. Congress is not actually going to go along with it but once again this year he is threatening to cut. Npr's funding and PBS is funding. And this year. The military's Iconic Stars and Stripes newspaper. It's funding also being targeted next safeguards against corruption while he has been smearing that Ukraine whistle blower and those who testified to the house and as foreign partial delivery of justice look no further than his interference of the DOJ tweeting about a proposed sentence for Roger Stone and then day after day of headlines Tuesday. Us prosecutors quit the stone case after their bosses step into overrule them. Remember the stone cases about line obstructing to protect trump then Wednesday this front page career. Prosecutors say they are worried about what's come Thursday. Ag Bill BARTOK'S ABC makes a show of independence and rebukes trump for tweeting. But then Friday the times and other outlets report that bars quietly intervening in a series of politically charged cases including the fun case. The headline here says bar quietly acting to tighten the leash in political cases. This all of this is democratic backsliding. It happens when the rule of law is eroded. It happens when a tough on crime. President wants his government to just be tough on the opposition's crimes. He often complains on twitter. That the real crimes are on the other side. He loves to say the real crimes are on the other side trump happily accuses opponents of treason and other high crimes suggesting awful penalties. This has become so normal that we barely blinking anymore. So look at the two thousand eighteen book. How DEMOCRACIES DIE. Let me read from it. The books institutions become political. Weapons wielded forcefully by those who control them against those who do not this is how elected autocrats subvert democracy packing weaponising the courts and other neutral agencies buying off the media and the private sector or bullying them into silence and rewriting the rules of politics to tilt the plainfield against opponents. More page here. It says the tragic paradox of the electoral route to authoritarianism. Is that democracies. Assassins used the very institutions of democracy gradually subtly and even legally to kill it. This is a worldwide story. It's not just something that's happening in the US. And obviously America is much better off than any of the other countries that are experiencing this authoritarian creep right. This this creeping sense of autocracy. It is happening. In many countries. It is a global story and one that takes more than ninety seconds to explain. We can't explain this in a nine hundred word news story or short package on the evening news so we need new ways to explain what's going on to the audience. Let's talk more about it beginning by going live to Munich. Germany and to Applebaum She's here with me as well as Philip bumped from. The Washington Post and Joan Walsh of the nation a CNN contributor. But and I'd love to start with you you've been out there at the Munich security conference and your tweets and writing a really inspired me this week to think more about this democratic backsliding that is going on but am I. Am I getting it right or am I getting it wrong? I would love for you to tell me that. I'm exaggerating or overstating. What's going on. Unfortunately you're not exaggerating. In many countries the the end of democracy often begins with someone who who mocks it. Who makes fun of the institutions Who who doesn't treat his opposition as a legitimate opposition but rather as traitors as people walk really patriots of people who are part of the Dacian. And you're right that we see that pattern in many countries. And we've seen it happen happen all over the world. I was recently in Venezuela idiomatic. Which is where he worked now and the we were watching impeachment from Caracas. And a lot of people who I was with. Were saying my goodness some of this looks so familiar. We had hugo shots. He was dead dictator. Who EVENTUALLY ENDED DEMOCRACY THERE? They were Democratic Country Beforehand. And he behaved much like trump he insults opponents he was rude. He was crude that made people with US authentic. He pushed back against the press against the media against judges An eventually he led to a decline of a system which has led Venezuela into really an extraordinary crisis. Come you can see it. In in. In other countries there number countries Europe. They have so-called illiberal leaders who are making the same arguments as trump in media. It's fake I want to be held accountable by anybody. I'm elected I can do what I want. And it's a it's a very common problem. Let's ask Joe Walsh about this as well Jones here with me in New York and the banner says journalism is role in sustaining democracy. In pushing back against Anna's describing so what is journals role in this conversation? I think just telling the truth telling it often and telling it loud and demanded bludgeoning our editors with story proposals insisting that headlines. Get it right and then headlines on don't use euphemisms for what is happening. You know I wrote about this week. Brian In the wake of the firing of Vitamin Brothers. Now that happened last week. So it wasn't you know it wasn't in this week's story but the reverberations continued. And then we saw you know the meddling in the stone investigation the the amazing withdrawal of the four prosecutors one of whom left The Department of Justice. So you know we have to keep talking about it. I also think obviously there's a big role for Congress and and I'm not always sure that Congress is doing everything it can on this front. I you know people a Lotta people. Were afraid that impeachment if it failed and we pretty much knew it would fail in terms of He would be quitted he was impeached. would unleash. It has done that but the House still has powers of oversight that they are not in my opinion using a sufficiently aggressively. I would like to see those four prosecutors testify I would like to see a whole lot more coverage of of why they left and what they think should happen now and I love to know one. We're going to hear from them. Let's hear writing these people right. Who were not being sidelined in the D. o? J. Why we're not hearing from right and I mean someone who literally left his job didn't just leave. That post left the Department of Justice. We have today open letters. Mean very little. They're like online petitions. But we have eleven hundred former. Justice Department employees calling for the resignation of Attorney General Bar which I think is totally appropriate. We have several Democratic senators. Saying the same thing. We should all have our hair on fire about what's gone on this last two weeks. I don't have much. I'll do it for you. Your hair can be on fire. Wash Rachel Maddow this week. Say Making the list is not enough. We gotTA DO Something Chris. Cuomo ON THE AIR ON CNN. Say and the president's and automatic autocratic mode. Does that sound right or is that extreme? Well I mean I think it's it's certainly is the case that a lot of the things he's doing are moving down the path but he's also doing things which aren't moving down that path and he likes to be able to point to those things. These are the sorts of presidential things in his defenders. Like to point to those things and this is just a president being president while he's doing the things that are extraordinary we are getting these mixed signals right everyday. Andrew McCabe is not going to be prosecuted but then an hour later. We hear about some stealth attempts to review cases and DOJ. So you hear one thing here another. You don't know what to believe. Well that's true. I mean it seems pretty obvious what we should believe here in part. Because we're we're avoiding the subtexts. During the subtext is that there are enablers both Congress and in the media who want to see Donald Trump able to present this vision of America the Donald Trump thinks is appropriate. I mean obviously Fox News here for example. We had this extraordinary comment from John. Kelly former White House chief of staff who said at an event this week if you are watching Fox News because it reinforces your worldview. You're not an informed citizen. That's the former chief of staff to Donald Trump who's making a very valid and accurate point about relying upon Fox News as a new source but Fox News for economic reasons and for political reasons is bolstering this vision that Donald Trump wants to see. We saw that with senators and members of the house. Republicans as well WHO AGREE WITH DONALD TRUMP. Broadly and therefore okay with some of the things. He's doing that are more extreme. We don't that's really the issue we don't know how to deal with that. I mean the Washington Post says a great story today but I felt brooker which points out the way. Donald trump is trying to rewrite. The Russia's store is a way of trying to muddle the picture but people who tuning the Sean Hannity every night. They're not reading a store anyway. So do you break through report expunged that means but that's that's Let's go back to an in. Munich has been at the security conference. I wonder if you think what's been going on at the security conference with Pompeii when others relates to the broader conversation. We're having Curie Conference. Was that you know. The United States is now presenting a very fractured face to the world. On the one hand we had pompeo who declared that the West is winning. You know everything's great on the other hand. We had the defense secretary saying You better you better do what we say on China or else you know. We're not sure. If the transatlantic alliance will will continue we head. Nancy Pelosi saying actually the House of Representatives still respects the alliance and still respects its partners In other words the the mess in Washington does transmit itself to to the outside world and it does You know it it. It creates the impression of democratic disarray. And that in turn has echoes and other countries You know look. The world has long looked up to the United States as a model democracy beacon of democracy. And if you know if it's in trouble there Benson trouble every year and thank you so much Philip and jumping around quick break here maliable sources and much more news coming up hope. It's leaving her post at Fox Corp come back to the trump White House. We're GONNA unpack trump's. Keep your friends close. A strategy with the author of a brand new book Nex All Star Weekend Roars into the windy city and we are ready to Europe rising stars State Farm All star Saturday night and the NBA. All Star game presented by the and the All Star Twenty Twenty February fourteenth to sixteenth on TNT. Welcome to hop won the game show. It's just hot sauces questions. And eventually some heartburn. I didn't know it was possible for your eyeballs to swim. Sean Evans Hosts Pot once the game. Show a new series on Tru TV. President trump has come a long way from his TV roots. Today's New York Times says he is increasingly guided by suspicion and distrust. Aides told axios the trump feels. He's surrounded by snakes but many of the so called snakes his own appointees Stephen Critics Jayme TV critic James Poniewozik pointed out trump spent a decade on a TV show. Whose entire premise was that. He was the best person in the world at hiring people. Well now post impeachment. He's clean out key witness Ukraine inquiry. And bring him back a couple of loyalists back to White House including picks decamped for Fox headquarters in two thousand eighteen. Now she's returning along with Don Makati. Let's talk more about this. With White House. Reporter also sang an investigative reporter Lockley market. They're both of the daily beast. They've been packed. They say trump's mob boss mentality in their new book sinking in the swamp. Trump's minions and misfits poisoned Washington Guy so the title started tells us where you're coming from minions and misfits who are some of those minions and misfits. When I mean we wanted to sort of tell the story of the trump era through the eyes of the foot soldiers in Donald Trump's Washington. Obviously there are a lot of trump books coming out These days in Unprecedented ink has been spilled about this administration. But that was an aspect of it that we felt really hadn't been told and we were looking around trying to figure out what we could add to the discussion about this sort of crazy time in our nation's capital and we actually took some inspiration from Swims Favorite Movie Goodfellas? And the the mob book on which that's based should we learn from goodfellas applies to trump's win well just in terms of the premises of the two books. The book in which Goodfellas is based tell the story of La Cosa Nostra through the eyes of a random foot soldier who was not a household name Henry Hill who obviously was played by Rave. Yoda in the famous Scorsese Film. So we went about trying to find as many Henry Hills within trump world as we possibly could and from the ground up through the worms eye view tell the story of Donald J trump his presidency his past and present. I haven't there's a broader point about how the trump presidency should be covered right whether it should be treated like it's any other administration certainly youtube. Don't think it should be treated that way. Yeah it. It's kind of boring in our view. It's a boring way to cover very exciting for better or worse. Time in in politics And we've had this discussion between us. Many Times swin feels that You know th that no president deserves the veneration that with with with which Many political journalist treated my view is that it's sort of a reciprocal relationship between journalists and the people they're covering the folks you're covering show that they respect the office then. I think they should be covered that way and with the respect that office deserves. I'm not sure that that is really the operative situation in this white. No it's not I mean as locking was pointing out person as a reporter. I think it's best whether it's Obama Bush Clinton or crump to not give this default dignity to the I think that. Close Your eyes and ears and makes you a better political reporter whether you're coming out from left right or center so I think it's weird whenever anybody is president of the United States to approach it in that sort of quote unquote dignified manner. I think `specially weird to win the racist game show. Host is leader of the free world. You love to say that. Don't you racist game show? Yeah Yeah I probably said that more than any other specific phrase during our media interviews for this does seem to. How WOULD YOU DESCRIBE? Dong one hundred different ways to describe. That's that's for sure look Hope it's coming back. Was this -nificant so that you think well hope is obviously someone who trump has for years treated as a surrogate daughter. His nickname's hurry include. Hope stor and Hopi. And she's someone who is telling friends when she first departed the west wing for allegedly greener pastures About two years ago that even if trump begged her she would not entertain a return to trump's west wing for at least another year after leaving. Well she kept award. It's been two years and This is someone who was beloved not just by trump but some of his closest advisers who also just happen to be within his family. Jared Kushner Ivanka trump. So it's a cliche to say it but what kind of getting the band back together at this point. We're running out of characters focused show. Okay Yeah I think she's going to board Fox as well you know. She's not going back to the communication shop. Which is notable Stephanie Grisham? The White House press secretary continues to to avoid briefings. She's going on Fox all the time though. Basically like kind of replaced briefings with Fox News appearances which is kind of interesting and I wonder. What's it like for White House reporters? What's it like for you all to be reaching out for comment asking Griffin for comment to see respond? Does it does it. Even matter one of the reasons we broadened it. The White House to focus on the larger universe of people in the President's orbit is that there are perhaps an unprecedented number of outside forces that that operate very effectively to shift the way the president and his team operate so just focusing on the media. You have to look at the the little box in president. Trump's living room that Effectively barking out commands on a day-to-day basis. He takes his cues from. And we look through your book. We took some of the titles of the descriptions of people who don't cable news commentators. Those are some of the minions describe and we'll put the scroll up on screen quite a list. Descriptions of diehards and misfits and minions and media figures and lobbyists villains and victims in henchmen that are all trump world. Yeah Yeah and you know. Many of those describe the same people you know. Let me ask you have you. Michael Avenue is back in the news. You know the swamp is not just about trump figures. I feel like there's so many other figures that are part of the swamp. I've just been convicted on three counts for alleged extortion and other crimes I've been some grief from Sean Hannity this weekend. Speaking of Fox right from Hannity for one suggesting that I thought of it could be a serious candidate for president so Gimme a media. Critique was that was that stupid on my part what are you. What do you make of? How Avenue was covered by CNN MSNBC? I think one of the weird and in many cases distressing things that trump has done is basically to trump by his opposition as well. And you see this. Very often in the conspiratorial mindset that many of his detractors take online and I think that board itself out in the phenomenon of Mike Lab Nadia's well this was a guy who in many ways very to trump He really knew how to operate in the modern media environment. Right and I think that's what really drew a lot of. Trump's critics chew him. Was this idea that he could beat trump at his own game. The question that I think a lot of journalist now have to ask themselves though is whether you know by virtue of granting that they were basically buying into they were being played by that very strategy his ability to sort of manipulate the media. And I think that a lot of folks did take him very seriously without looking at the extensive personal financial legal baggage. That was out there just waiting to be reported as a matter of fact our colleague. Kate Brickley at the daily beast did some amazing work on his On his finances he threatened to sue her among many other journalists. And this was back when he was sort of getting. This this You know relations. He was actually making news. I mean the wasn't get news about the president and his crookedness aside. It would have been weird at that time sort of during the microwave. Naughty boomlet to not take him seriously at least in the form of someone who was getting in the presence head one way or the other and doing things that did result in actual legal real world consequences more at the time. The president's personal attorney and top fixer or one of his top fixers Michael Cohen Right. So this was a guy who even if he got convicted for all of these things still had a real world impact and that was obviously objectively speaking news at the time when we talk about media manipulation whether it's trump Ravanelli or anybody else think. The point is to be more skeptical the manipulation. It's going on right to examine the manipulation and not be manipulated meadow all the all the time. Gentlemen thanks for being here. The book is thinking in the swamp and up next reliable sources talking about the Democrats and screen time which candidates are winning attention and which are not steam room everybody Ernie Johnson and Charles Barkley we own a role right now is a chance to blow off steam. Yes I can't brag about show but that doesn't make you an apple subscribe and download the steam room on your favorite podcast APP. Every Thursday subscribed. The wait is over coming to H. L. N. All new episodes of forensic files follow the evidence and crack the case forensic files to Premiere. Sunday February twenty. Thirty ten only on H. L. What unites the leading candidates the Democratic nomination? Right now is it screen time Buddhadev seems to be saying Yes to every TV interview under the Sun National and local. And it's been working for over a year now Bernie Sanders has been lots of shows lately too even while leveling critiques of the media and Michael Bloomberg television strategy is an ad campaign. That is just unrelenting twitter moments and tick Tock memes are great but the primaries are still one lost right here on the tube. Let's talk about it with Philip. Bump and wash their back on the table joined by New York. Magazine's Aaron Carmona's well. Let's take a sprint around. The primary field six candidates six minutes beginning with Bernie with Joe Biden who of course buried by unflattering coverage as a resolves his New Hampshire primary failures. Before is that. What's expected? You know you come in fifth place. You're GONNA get scrutinized. Yeah I mean there's certainly was coming into both Iowa New Hampshire. He knew he wasn't GonNa do as well as he wouldn't later contest based on what his base was but he didn't even worse than expected and since his entire value propositions who democratic voters was. I'm the guy that can win the race against Donald Trump losing to racist very badly to four or five or three or four. Different Democrats. Didn't help that case. Well the New Hampshire. Primary narratives was about Clo- mental. Am I pronouncing that right or cloud? Cloud momentum is. He finally gained the attention deserves. What's your view about? How am I being covered because our industry has such a bias towards the recent? The novel I think Amy Klobuchar. Really benefited from timing. She hasn't experienced the same. Level of prosthetic or scrutiny. That's a Comma Harris Elizabeth. Warren Joe Biden have already gone through and so all of the sudden folks who are maybe. Let's say college educated White Women in New Hampshire looking for a home. Amy Klobuchar suddenly. She's tough in the debate. She had some incredible moments pushing back at people just lack of experience and so all of a sudden we in the media are talking up club momentum. Clemenza my thanks CLOVA charge. Pick your pick your poison. But I don't think really had the depth of reporting or scrutiny. I'm Amy Klobuchar. As we have had on other candidates that she came in strong chest when she needed it. But we're I think we're GONNA see in the long term what that looks like. What about the other female candidate? It's high in the race right now. And that's Elizabeth Warren not a great performance in New Hampshire and this free beacon headlines notable fundraising pitcher supporters. Saying we can no longer count on the media to cover our campaign. Fairly is a typical bash. The media when things aren't going well strategy Joan. No I don't I don't think so. You know she had a tough night in New Hampshire and that made things a lot harder for her but before New Hampshire coming out of Iowa where I was Brian I wrote a piece that. Said Elizabeth Warren is being erased. Not by the media because she really was. The story was Okay Biden flop that was I. I admit I'm a reporter. I understand some of why this happened. Biden was a big story as a flop Bernie and Pete tied. Pete looked like baby. He's always a fresh face But the woman who finished third a decent third not not. Her dream was really. I was watching. You know multiple cable stations. That were jumping jumping around and skipping her and and you know even on on The night the Iowa caucuses lots of people from her to Biden because by meager story in that it was a very sad performance so understand why she's upset but I think having done as poorly as she did In New Hampshire. She can't just blame the media. I think that there's you know there's stuff going on her campaign and in her own approach to getting attention that she's got to address she did not go out and grab Attention and grab time in the debate when she really should have. And Amy certainly did I think she's gotta be tougher. Quite honestly and Bernie. Sanders also has complaints about whether his campaign is being overlooked. This has been a topic for a long time at this point. Philip is that fair here in right now. I mean Bernie. Sanders campaign is doing well. He's at the front of the pack right now. You know they've they've a lot of his supporters. Want to call them front runner. He has a very avid base of support that wants to see him treated as sort of Goto eventual nominee the only person and beat Donald Trump. And so we get a lot of pushback in the media when we report on Bernie Sanders because there is an expectation of how he will be covered that I don't think applies to other candidates and doesn't come from other Canas basis in the same way I think effective at pushing people to ask questions like is Bernie Sanders being treated fairly. I think generally speaking he was and now my mentions on twitter. Ob Mestre okay. Let's get to a couple more candidates after a quick break. Everybody stay with me and a quick plug here as well with election-night a coming Another election caucus night Elisa's Saturday. Cnn is starting the race for the White House. The new season starts tonight at nine PM Eastern time here on CNN. More here on reliable sources just a moment with a no-holds-barred election right around the corner. Take a look back at some of the most hard-fought presidential races throughout history the CNN original series race for the White House's bat for a brand new season Sundays at nine on CNN making of CNN presents a story of the world's most famous Royal Family. The windsors inside the Royal Dynasty Sundays CNN. And we're back reliable sources talking about the Democrats media strategies with the panel mother Bloomberg strategy of buying every TV possibly can is is fascinating stuff to over three hundred fifty million dollars in TV ad spending Erin Carmona reaction. I think it's the job of the Independent. Press to make sure that Bloomberg record and messages are being scrutinized and there was incredible investigative reporting this week in the Washington. Post The New York Times one. The New York Times tracked the path of money and the way in which Bloomberg has really captured enormous parts of the progressive infrastructure and politicians around the country and the post went a little deeper into the highly journalist anti transparency tools of nondisclosure agreements. And the pattern of discrimination allegations against Michael Bloomberg which he has denied but also we only know so much about because of nondisclosure agreements. I think it's a moment for us to step back and think about media bias to to what extent are folks who did really well when Michael Bloomberg was mayor folks who might be economically Conservative socially liberal a very tiny part of the US probably over represented among newsrooms and executives. To what extent are we taking Michael Bloomberg seriously because of both money? And kind of centrist biased. I think our questions that we need to think about and so independent reporting is so important when you have somebody basically paying their way into the conversation not being subject to the same debates the same campaigning from voters. Not the same early contests. I think. There's no precedent for that and it makes independent journalism all the more important. I hope he makes the debate stage but this upcoming debate because yeah he's doing this while in the polls we need to hear from him on debates right. I wrote about that this week and I am from the left. I got a lot of criticism. O changing the rules for Michael Bloomberg. Unfortunately I think it's necessary. He's rising in the polls. He's not getting a lot of criticism he needs to meet. I want to see Elizabeth. Warren talked to him about his ideas. About how red line? The end of red lining helped precipitate You know the mortgage and banking crisis. I want I wanNA see other. People challenge him on. Stop and Frisk. I WanNa see people talk to him. You know amy. Klobuchar are not just women about his remarks about women he needs to mix it up. It's it's sad that they didn't change the rules for Cory Booker and Land Castro. But but there's a reason that it has to happen now. He's hiding behind his ads. He's the Phantom of the primary And doing doing very little media as well. I'm very many. Tv INTERVIEWS CENTER RIGHT. The Washington Post. Drop this really important investigation on Saturday morning and then like an hour later. Matt drudge photo to rumor that Hillary Clinton could possibly be Bloomberg's be Phillip. I just want your reaction to this. I mean the folks on Fox are loving this. They're running with it. Which should we shouldn't be taking this seriously right. No I mean yeah no I mean all these early who's your vice president going to be. Sometimes it campaigns. Put them out to do a do some distraction. It's hard to say exactly what's happening here. Obviously the name Hillary Clinton gets Matt drudge and Fox News amped up in a way that pretty pretty much. Nothing else does I I don't know to what extent this have been a strategy but no I mean any. Vp Talk. Let's get to that in July. It's February it's good. All right the panel. Thank you so much quick. Break here on reliable sources. We're talking about the intensifying crisis in local news. Newspapers in the printing presses in some cases grinding to a halt. We're GONNA discuss the local news prices and how it affects you next. Once upon a time. This was the news. The Earth is flat devil. Israel has everything that we know exactly Daniel Radcliffe in St Semi Dark Ages. A Miracle Workers Anthology Tuesdays at ten thirty and nine thirty central on TBS. Welcome back to reliable sources Brian stelter. Let's review the last few months of news about local newspapers. Gannett engaged houses. Recent merger is resulting in cutbacks. A So called Volcker Hedge Fund is buying up shares in Tribune publishing creating fears at the Chicago. Tribune and other papers. Warren Buffett is selling berkshire-hathaway Thirty one newspaper is basically throw in the towel. There and mcclatchy as of this week is filing for bankruptcy protection now. Mcclatchy is one of the nation's biggest owners of papers Right now mcclatchy owns thirty papers across the United States. Because see the map right there. Probably one near where you live including the Miami Herald. The STAR TELEGRAM IN FORT. Worth and many more. So what's going to happen to them? Here disgust that is duly K. Brown. She's an investigative report at one of those papers at the Miami Herald. You know her as the reporter. Who broke the Jeffrey Obscene Scandal? Wide Open and also joining us. Is Ken Dr a media industry analyst and founder of the news column? Thank you both for being here and Julie I tell you. What is the impact of this bankruptcy filing for you and your colleagues well? I don't think we know what the impact is going to be. We've seen this happen around the country where some of these Other chains have been bought up by hedge hedge funds and in some cases. They've dismantled with some of these newspapers. These local newspapers so of course. We're hoping that that won't happen to to our paper in the papers that are owned by mcclatchy We're hopeful but really it's an unknown. We don't know exactly what's going to happen so can tell us the one minute version of what is happening to all these papers that were largely owned by families up until recently and in the past ten. Twenty years have been bought up by hedge funds and bankers. What's what's the reason. So the these bankers in and financial companies all got into the industry by lending money taking equity stakes Mcclatchy is the twentieth company declared bankruptcy. So now we have a twenty five percent of the press controlled by Gannett which is run by fortress and we could see in the coming financialisation as I've described it as much as forty percent of the daily press The it is a world of WHOA FINANCIALLY. Mcclatchy lost twelve percent of its revenue last year. So revenues going down across the Board. Cutting the painstaking work we see of Julianne and her colleagues There are only twenty thousand. Journalists left daily newspapers and that's down sixty percent in twenty five years saw downward how much is about people not wanting the print edition Versus damage being done by hedge funds. They're trying to suck money out of these companies. It's it's a combination I figure. There's about a billion dollars in free cash flow or profits still in the industry so clearly reader reader habits have changed. But this isn't news. It's twenty twenty This has been a transition that has not worked. These companies are dependent on print. And at the same time there's still a lot of money to be made and the people who are making are the people who are willing to take those tough decisions cut into the product knowing that they're not building a product for tomorrow. What take the money in the short term and of course the digital duopoly the other part of the conversation Google and facebook and how they dominate the digital ad market. So I wonder truly for you at the Miami Herald. What does that print versus digital transition? Feel like do you all still feel like a print newspaper at your core. No I feel like it's a combination still But the issue is here is that people aren't reading their local newspaper even digitally because and digital doesn't make the kind of money of course that print had made so we're not capitalizing on the way that I think. People are are hopeful that we would on digital I'm not an expert in the business side of it but as far as the journalism side of it I mean. I think that the one thing that we do know is that with these Smaller newspapers drying up across the country. That it is creating a collapse of local newspapers and local news and that kind of information that it provides around the country and it is contributing. Also I think to the divisions in our country because there isn't a the number of voices and the number of of local newspapers has helped couldn't think has contributed to two divisions that were experiencing around the country. Your research shows that if you don't have a strong local paper you're more likely to just vote straight party line when you go to the ballot box. Think that is so revealing. Let's go to a quick break but first let's look at this news desert map to to make the point. You're sharing Julia about the growing number of news. Desert's these are communities with as either just one paper or no local papers left quick break here. We'll talk about solutions to this problem in just a moment. I'm back with Julie K. Brown and Ken Doctor. Talking about the grim state of local newspapers. And what can be done in the wake of the mcclatchy bankruptcy Julie Brown the Miami Herald what can viewers do right now. Well they can go should be subscribing to their local newspapers. You know on twitter. I've talked about this often and occasionally I get someone who says well. I can't really afford to do that. And when you really think about what you pay for your cable bill Most people pay would think one hundred to two hundred dollars A month on their cable subscription newspapers are a fraction of that you know digital subscriptions or like ten to fifteen dollars a month So it really isn't a whole lot of money considering the investing in your community and your investing in people at the newspapers. Who ARE THERE. Hold your elected people and people who are in power accountable. That's the bottom line. That's absolutely right. Well tech giants are part of the problem. They also are part of the solution. Google and facebook making investments in lots of local news ventures. Can you're working on one of those? Actually what is the role of the tech giant's so the the the role here is they are helping in lot of ways and in minor funding to Sites get their subscription programs as Julie mentioned going going faster There's also a lot of push to get Google and facebook to actually pay for licensing money into these companies. And I think we're GONNA see a lot of data antitrust comes up plus we have Owners in L. A. and Boston and Minneapolis who are private and are putting money and reinvesting. And lastly we got a major movement in nonprofits From Vermont To MEMPHIS TO OAKLAND. And we're seeing a lot of money. Millions really tens of millions of dollars move into that market. But all of this has not Added up to Replacements for what's being loss what's being lost is being just overcome in In Our news environment without reporter boots on the ground. We won't know what we don't know that's that's the reality Can enjoy thank you both for being here? Hey for more on this log. Onto our podcast. Reliable SOURCES DOT COM. Our newest episode is what Columbia Journalism Professor. Emily Bell we about the effects of local news losses and the possible support from public media from taxpayers. We'll see you right back here this time next week for more reliable sources.

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Class Of 2019: It's Time For The Senior Thesis Showcase

On Point with Tom Ashbrook | Podcasts

46:48 min | 1 year ago

Class Of 2019: It's Time For The Senior Thesis Showcase

"This message comes from on point sponsor, indeed if you're hiring with indeed you can post a job in minutes set up screener questions than zero in on your shortlist of qualified candidates using an online dashboard get started at indeed dot com slash NPR podcast. From NPR WB. You are Boston. I'm Jane clayson. This is on point. Tis the season of pomp and circumstance across the country. College students or walking across the stage to receive hard earned diplomas. But before crossing that threshold, many, countless hours have been spent in labs in archives in forests and ponds researching their senior theses this hour on point our annual salute to the senior thesis. Join us won't you college seniors. Are you breathing a sigh of relief having turned in your own thesis, just in time for those of you who wrote your theses long ago, do the topics you chose then still resonate today. Or do we even remember what you wrote about? Join us anytime on point radio dot org. More on Twitter and Facebook where they're on point radio. Well, who better to ride along with me? Again this hour for this salute this year than my high school classmate in Sacramento califor-. Tim grieve lover of great writing with children of his own in college until recently. He ran the news division for McClatchy newspapers. He's now working on a new publication that will focus on technology, business and politics. Tim, welcome back to one point. Hey, Jane, green, beer, great to have. You seems to be a favourite a fan favourite this hour. So here we go again, you're ready. I am ready deciding on a little bit intimidate. All right. First up Hannah, new comb joins us from Salem, Massachusetts. She graduates from Salem state university this week. She studied geology in is originally from foul mouth, Massachusetts, her thesis is titled well Hannah, you give us the title won't you? So my title is called the late Pleistocene to mid Holocene paleo limb, no logical variability preserved in sediment of Walden. Pond. You get an a. A. Such a serene place. Get hitched with such an intense titled. That's what well to make it simple. Their geologic. Periods of time give are given pretty, you know, exciting names, I should say to make it simple. It's an ice age. So the younger dry is to the mid Holocene climactic optimum, which was the thermal maximum paleo limited illogical is the study of past lakes. So we're looking at lake and we're looking at an ice age to a thermal maximum, and what we can see preserved in the mud there. Okay. So you got your hands dirty with this one essentially right looking at sediment from Walden pond. Dating back as you say all the way to the ice age. What did you find? So we took nine meters of core at Walden pond. And we found that different isotopes. So we looked at carbon nitrogen and sulfur. They all have different reactions to temperature. And so if we were looking at the ice age up until our thermal maximum, which is a lot warmer. We can see distinct shifts and what the carbon nitrogen and sulfur are doing. And I'm put it on more simple terms. We're able to relate those three isotopes to things that are commonly happening in a lake setting. So we looked at carbon which we relate to productivity so what are little biological critters doing? How are they eating are they dying? Are they living nitrogen we can relate? To the kind of plants and how what plants are doing in the area, and then the sulfur. We look at to see what are the actual conditions in the water column. Looking like is there are a lot of wind is it being mixed? Well, the water, and so we actually found some pretty cool things in the ice age. We can see that. There are not a lot of plants growing, which kind of makes sense. We can see that there's not a lot of activity happening with the little critters, and we see that in an ice age when it's dry, and Wendy there's actually a lot of mixing going on in the water column. And then we're able to see a shift actually because at the thermal maximum about a five thousand years ago, we see a huge increase in plants. We see a huge increase in critters m we see less of the windy mixing going on the water. So I did a little research myself last night and discovered that wall that Walden pond. Fund is a famous example of a kettle hole. Right. Henry David thoreau's famous spot. It was formed by retreating glaciers ten twelve thousand years ago. So why did you choose this spot? Hannah Walden pond is obviously famous by Henry, David Thoreau. But also, it's Massachusetts Steve this leak, and it has never been studied before on the at the extent that I was able to. So my adviser Brad Humani over at home state university. He got a grant to actually go out to all them pond. And take the longest core that's ever been retrieved from there so me as well as some other scientists internationally actually, so I'm in a group of international scientists that are working on this project. That's never been done before. And when we retrieve the the core, you're actually right? There is evidence for retreating glaciers. So at the base of the core. There's these sandy. Layers and glaciers are huge and they can deposit big grain, sediment. So there's some sand at the base of the court and knots are evidence of glaciers, Tim grieve. What do you think a college Elving you're holding her on with these international scientists? Well, I'm mostly I understand the way you did. This was was taking centimeter sized samples of mud every eight or nine centimeters for days and days and days on end is that right? Did you ever think man? I I could be out drinking beer, binge watching reality TV like normal college student. Multitask flex on. And do the mindless task of of taking all those samples, but it really did take a long time. And I was so excited when it ended. So what's the lesson for us today? What did you conclude after all of your research Hannah? Well, I think it's really exciting that we can use Walden pond as area for a research when understanding climate change between ice age and two now, and this is before human. So we know that climate change is happening before humans and I'm excited because hopefully, we're going to soon be releasing the full record when we can see when humans come into play and how over a long period of time we have climate change. But how will this accelerate with human? Well, thorough would be proud of you Hannah new. Thank you very much. Much twenty two year old from found with graduating. It's from Salem state on Saturday. Her thesis is titled here we go late Pleistocene to middle Halloween paleo limb. No logical variability preserved in the sediments at Walden pond. Hannah. Thank you. Thank you very much. All right. All right. Tim Britney Brown is joining us next. She's from Oxford Mississippi, she graduates from the university of Mississippi with a degree in journalism on Saturday. She's from Quinton Mississippi. Her thesis is titled the Latino south race and racialism Brittany. Great to have you with us. Hi, welcome say, hi to Tim grieve. How are you? I'm Great Britain. And this is a fascinating topic. You've chosen it says as I think you've you've written. There's a divide in the south that we think of typically very clearly binary divide between black and white. And you're looking at the questions of of how Latinos fit in an and fifth. Themselves into that divide. What did you find? Yeah. So the south still very much though, like operates in this racial binary, where things are very black and white, and if you don't fit into either one of these categories, then where do you fit into you have to assimilate and one of the categories, do you create your own faith, and so through interviewing about twenty three students at the university of Mississippi who identify as you Latino I found that it's really interesting how students end up falling into either the category of black or white or creating their own faith. And so I've I've found it. It's really changing with the increase of population here in the south, especially in these non traditional areas in the south where you don't see a large, you know, influence, not you know, Florida or takes it. But places like hearing this -issippi or Alabama or even in rural areas in Georgia, not necessary, not necessarily Atlanta because there is a large Latino population there, but it's really. Affecting the way race operates on a small scale. And I think as as time continues, eventually, we're no longer gonna be I think as I think dedicated or committed to this black white racial Binaring here in the south. And so I'm really excited to see how things change even of, you know, continue to do this research, but it was really interesting to talk to students first-hand about their own expansion was in Brittany. Your father is Puerto Rican. Your mother is African American. How did this all make you reflect on on your own identity? Yes. So growing up there were always a lot of questions. People. Always ask me what my race was by necessity was from what languages do I speak, and you'd be amazed at the the questions or or the looks that I it people. I don't know. It's just really interesting being here in the facility heck about growing up in a society, most of my life. And so these are questions that have always had to answer until with this research. I just wanted to see if these questions that other students have answer, and you know, how how how do we deal with these things? How is our presents as much, you know, than other Latinos across the south affecting the way, your view here myself Tim last question for you. What what in your own life? How do you find yourself making this path? Do you find yourself gravitating to sort of identify with one group or the other or or as you said finding that that third route? Yes. One of the major conclusions found in my research is that race is a spectrum. And I think in this country in the south, especially look at it as very very concrete feigned. Now, I'm I'm not saying that the implications of race or the the thinks that people live every day because of race is not like real or concrete, but raise itself race as a as a as an organization is not real and just going back to like, the sixteen hundreds and understanding how understanding how race was established and understanding now after interviewing so many students whenever I got to that question. What is your race? What is yours, and none of the students could just say, you know, straight off the top of their hands. This is my reason my ethnicity, there was always some sort of hesitation or students. We're always thinking about their own identity. And so I think that this is something that I gravitate. Who personally just because of my own identity. But I think is going to be something that we continue to be as this country becomes more and more diverse races the spectrum in any moment, and any I guess environment. I cannot identify one or the other. It's not they're not exclusive of each other. So Britney Brown. Thank you so much for being here. Newly minted graduate of the university of Mississippi onto great things. Brittany. I can hear it in your voice. Thank you very much for sharing your senior thesis. Thank you for having good luck to you. Thank you. Tim Greaves standby. We're talking about the college thesis this hour with graduating seniors from around the country. I'm Jane clayson. This is on point. We'll be right back. This is on point Jane clayson, we're talking with college seniors this hour about their thesis. The last great intellectual exercise for the class of two thousand nineteen and you can join the conversation. What makes a good thesis? Follow us on Twitter. Find us on Facebook. And on point radio. We've got Tim grieve riding along with us this hour. He ran the news division for McClatchy newspapers. He's now working on a new publication that will focus on technology, business and politics, Tim. I've got a line of calls here. So let me get a couple in here. I Alex is in Richmond Virginia. Hi, alex. Welcome to the program. I. Are you where are you in the process? Have you graduated are you about graduate best Friday with a bachelors degree in history? And tell us about your thesis, Alex. I wrote a thesis about modern perspectives in history and new and changing perspectives in history and how they shaved modern policy in the US Middle East specifically, and what's your takeaway? My take away from my thesis is that it's really important to constantly reexamine and reassess old historical perspectives in order to gain a proper and full understanding of modern problems, and they're correct historical context. And how do you how do you plan to use the knowledge you gained from writing researching putting together this senior thesis sort of as you move along with this an important exercise for you? I guess is what I'm asking. Or was it just sort of a one off thing? I think it was extremely an exercise. I think a lot of historians. And especially the way history is taught in school today reflects more of a memorization of just names and dates and places and events rather than understanding that we can change the way. The we understand our history based on which historical documents and primary sources we study, and that will greatly really impact and affect the way that we approached history and has younger children start to learn this approach towards history. They will be elevated to positions of power eventually, and we can change the way our states operate policy-wise towards modern problem. Well, good luck to you, Alex. And congratulations you very much. Thank you get another listener in here, Rebecca in Buffalo, New York. Hi, Rebecca, you're on the air. Hi, how are you? Hi. Well, go ahead. Well, I'm I'm not a newly minted at graduate. I actually finish my graduate degree my doctorate Nadi allergy Q thousand ten from the university of buffalo in. So I'm an audiologist today practicing in private practice. But at the time, I wrote my thesis on a certain kind of hearing loss, not the hearing loss, we all know about obviously the kind that happens slowly over the aging process. But this is more called noise induced hearing loss, and that can come from obviously, our military construction workers, you know, people who work in noise that can't otherwise protect themselves because they don't have that option assume they're out in Irving getting our country there in the field. And so my job in my research was who combined different dosages of drugs into accidents and things called Sarkin hitter. And the goal was to kind of come up with a soup. For drug combination that our military could actually dose themselves with after a blast noise exposure that would help promote recovery in combination of that impact sudden hearing loss, and so did you see an application of what you develop? Did you see that actually applied? They'd have. You know, I'm so excited that we have statistically significant finding but where I kind of left off with it with it. We really needed more research to be done in that area. More grant funding in order to move it who human trial, which was a a really difficult jump and getting the approval to do that. So I know others who came after me have kind of taken that research on. But we've not gotten to the point where we have something for our service members. Jeff yet on important work came out of of a senior thesis, Rebecca, thank you so much for the call. Yeah. Thank you may bring a now. Matt hoesch? He's actually in the studio with me. He is from Los Angeles, a senior at Harvard, college and on point intern. Nice to have you with us. Matt Mets thesis is titled the parts and the whole a co production est analysis of urban carbon neutrality Krit happy with us. Hi, jane. Hi, tim. Hey, Matt, how're you doing? Well. So tell us about your thesis about your senior thesis. So my thesis was looking at two cities in Texas that are tried to go one hundred percent renewable, and I was really interested in understanding how these two cities in this red state made renewable energy politically palatable for their citizenry. And what the challenges were along the way for each city. How did you find about about these places in the first place so actually found out about Georgetown through? I was just listening to the news a few years ago and heard about this city in Texas trying to go one hundred percent renewable I thought. Well, that's pretty interesting. And so last year when I was trying to. Think of a topic for my senior thesis, the idea of Texas city going renewable just seemed so rich an interesting, and like there were so many questions that I had and so immediately I knew that I had to get a comparative element in there and conveniently in February twenty eighteen when I was doing all this Denton another city in Texas also decided that they were going to go or try to get one hundred percent renewable in the next few years. And so I got very lucky that I hadn't these two cities fairly similar trying to do the same thing that I could look at both of them. How are they doing? How are they funding it? So a lot of it is contractual they are buying the energy from wind and solar farms in Texas and buying the rights of that energy and the way that the Texas energy grid works. It's not that the energy is going directly to each city. But the city essentially has the rights to that energy, which is somewhat controversial it is somewhat controversial but net. I mean, they're, you know, putting the funding forward that ostensibly without this funding that renewable energy would not have been generated. So in that. Way they are offsetting fossil fuel generation, Tim grief. What are you hearing Matt's thesis? Well, I'm fascinated by this Texas aspect, as I think, you were do you think these these these cities did this because they were in Texas or sort of in spite of their Texas nece, you know, that was one of the interesting things that really attracted me to this. Because anyone that knows renewable energy actually knows that it's not that surprising that there are cities in Texas doing this because Texas has so much wind and sun that renewable energy is actually very plentiful in the state, but I would say that one of the city's one of the driving factors. They were using was saying that this is an economic decision. They were really pushing the economic nature of this decision. And in that way, I would say that the Texas practicality of it all I think was really at the forefront of their decision to do this. And then the other city then ten had actually had a history of pushing up their renewable energy portfolio bit by bit over the years part of which I would say is because it's a big. University town they have to big universities in the city in that kind of. I think brought a lot of the green ethos into what they were doing. And so I think the Texas -ness of the two towns created a really fascinating backdrop against which to look at what these two cities were doing. And so are the citizens in Georgetown, and Denton are they you know, they must be really proud of this. They feel like they're sort of pioneers in some way here. You know? That's the funny thing in Georgetown. They actually weren't even trying to go one hundred percent renewable. They made a series of small choices contract by contract and more or less one morning woke up and realized when they signed this next contract. They're going to be one hundred percent renewable and the city of by accident. Exactly. And the citizens really were on board as long as it didn't change that much and more or less once they went renewable the lights didn't flicker the energy didn't go out and most people I mean, I was in Georgetown, some people didn't even know they were one hundred percent renewable in Denton. People have been on board with going renewable more or less for a while. They were forty percent renewal. Years ago, and a lot of people were really on board to go one hundred percent renewable, but the Denton story gets a little bit more complicated because they actually had to build a natural gas plant in the city in order to go one hundred percent renewable which what they did with. It was they sold that energy didn't use it. But use the revenue from selling that energy to make their renewable plant economical. And so that got a little bit more complicated. It's such an interesting story, what are the lessons? More broadly speaking from Georgetown, Don, which is I'm going to say that as we move forward with a lot of climate change plans. I think this idea of going one hundred percent renewable is something a lot of people are catching onto. But the thing I've learned from this is that cities are not monolith. It's not a one-size-fits-all solution kind of a thing as more and more cities kind of get onto what is historically been. I think national efforts to combat climate change, we really gonna have to grapple with the fact that cities are different. They're not the same as people try to implement these plans. I think it is really worthwhile to go into cities to try to. Understand the cities and really get a more detailed perspective. And before I forget, I also wanted to give a shout out to my visa said visor Sheila Jackson off who was invaluable in this whole process. Congratulations to her and especially to you, Matt Heus, Harvard senior and on point intern. We wish you all the best has been so great to have you on our team. Thanks, jane. Thank you so up next joining us from Saint Petersburg, Florida, August Dichter he graduates from Eckerd college later this week from Philadelphia his thesis is titled the political effectiveness of the satirical news desk. August thanks for being with us. Jane? Thank you so much for having me on today and say hi to Tim, grieve them as well. August. Go ahead. Tim, you get the first question on this one. Yeah. Well, I'm facet journalists. I'm I'm fascinated by this. The the power of these satirical, news shows were you more interesting than in in their power of of of helping people understand the news or or their power in persuading people to have a particular viewpoint. Great question. I was actually an intern on full-frontal. Samantha b and I got to see firsthand how powerful these tearful news. Critique of politics can actually influence people to action and drive a lot of their decisions. And I was really inspired by that in creating this thesis. So Tillis exactly what you did. You had one class watch a couple of different clips in different ways. Explain explain the process. Expen experimental thing Eckerd, and I had one class watch a ABC news clip, while a different class watched a clip from John Oliver and last week tonight, the clips that essentially the same exact information in them, and they tried to pick a very nonpartisan topic, which was ISIS. Everyone can really, you know, get behind our ideals of ISIS. So then I asked them a couple of baseline questions see where they were politically. And then I asked them about the clip and awesome. The clip about the strategic narrative, which the different news desk. We're trying to protect throughout the clip. And then I came back a week later and ask them follow up question. The follow up questions, but I want to play this clip. I August this is from the two thousand fifteen segment of John Oliver's last week tonight where the comedian focused on Toyota's response to ISIS, featuring their vehicles. Promotional videos. So here we hear ABC's Brian Ross first. And then we hear John Oliver's reaction statement. ABC news Toyota says it is not aware of any of us dealerships, violating the company policy not to sell to terrorist groups. You actually felt the need to make not selling to terrorists official company policy. The handbook onto things that should go without site. So don't sell to terrorists don't accept magic beans as payment until Celtic Kathy Wilkes with the ruby in its mouth. All right August. So you play these two different clips and tell us what happened you came back and asked what I asked first and foremost were you engaged by the clip and overwhelmingly students who are watching the satirical news desk where way more engaged by the clip, they were laughing they were enjoying it. They enjoyed John Olver, and and the ruby in the cat's mouth, they enjoyed the wacky inflatable armed terrorists that he talks about slightly later in that clip as well. I then asked the students if they had gone back to the new sources, the respected news sources ABC or last week tonight for more information and by far the class that was watching last week tonight. They went back more often than ABC clip than ABC class. And then the last question I asked. Was a week later. Are you still thinking about the material and students from the satirical news class where still wrestling with the material they are still thinking about that material week later at a far higher rate than the ABC news class? So Tim, what do you make of those reactions? That's fascinating. Well, I'm really I'm really curious about the the political persuasion of the people in the crowd so much many times in these shows people are pretty self selecting which kind of show they're going to watch a where the were the conservatives in the group able to take away the same amount of information withhold the same amount of information as as the liberals given that the presentation probably from from John Alva was probably in more liberal perspective. Honestly, I saw that the students who identified more conservatively reject the ABC news clip, a little more, and that might be the feelings towards the traditional news. In general at the moment. But I think that the satirical devices that John Oliver is able to employ brought some more of them in. So what's the takeaway? Then would you say August for news organizations for producers for for a younger generation of news consumers? I would say satire is not inherently four liberals. It is for everyone. Because it offers a new a new in-depth critique of politicians strategic narrative that you've just sometimes cannot get from the traditional news desk, and it's able to generate a consensus of facts on climate change, for example, which the which the traditional news desk is having trouble doing right now. Are you a fan of John Oliver? Are you a fan of Syracuse news yourself a very big fan of John Oliver and satirical news myself? I created a tearful newspaper at my college just to have an outlet. We'll good for you. Congratulations. August Dichter senior at Eckerd college. Best of luck to you. Thank you very much. Have a good day you to Tim? Let's get another couple of calls in here. Andy is in Buffalo, New York. Hyandi? Welcome to one point. Hi, hi. What was your senior thesis on? Senior faces appear less rhetoric of Henry Cabot lodge. I've read it in about two other people. And did they fall asleep in the process? Yeah. Wisconsin historical society want to visit. And I see here. You're a professor now, are you helping students with the process of of the senior thesis yourself now, I have fixed portfolios upgrading grading, many papers. Their upper division writing. In writing course. So I I is pieces in the past. But presently, I've sixty four wheels degrade might take away from my call is that instructors and students should view the subject matter as a writing problem after all the thesis is written. So it's good to students have a writing problem because if they are forced to write they'll become clearer in their thinking about their subject, I'm I'm curious. Do you encourage students now given your own experience to try to write a thesis that other people actually will read. Well, the intention is that they have a audience that would appreciate this type of discourse. There has to be a smart audience knows the subject by already that has excellent critical thinking skills, and of course, they right well themselves. So I'm hopeful, Andy, thank you so much. Good luck with those sixty portfolios that you have to look at over the next couple of weeks. Enjoyed my mini break. Thank you so much. Your show. Andy, thank you very much for calling Tim grieve is with us stick with us. Tim journalists who recently ran the news division for McClatchy. We'll have a couple more senior theses after this break. We're discussing the labor of love sweat, and sometimes tears that is the college thesis listeners, we'd love to have you. Join us. Did your thesis helped launch your career help you get a job was it? A wasted time a waste of paper more after this break. I'm Jane clayson. This is on point. We'll be right back. This is on point. I'm Jane clayson. We're talking with the class of two thousand nineteen this hour about their senior theses and you can join the conversation. Are you inspired? Glad you're on the flip side of this. Ordeal. Follow us on Twitter. Fight us on Facebook at on point radio. My sidekick on this academic achievement coaster is Tim grieve who ran the news division of McClatchy newspapers in his working on a new publication focused on technology business and politics, so far so good on Tim very impressive group of visas. Only some of which I understand. I've got a couple more coming, but let's get to some calls. I've got them lined up around the block here Abby is in south Portland. Maine high abbey you're up. Hi, how are you? I'm well. Thank you. Did you write a thesis? So I did many moons ago at this point. So I I was a two thousand three graduate from Saint Anthony college, oh shot that old not that old. Oh bless your heart. I'll take it. But. Was on stereotype implications for September eleventh because it was right there. I was in college when that'll happen. And so I don't remember the exact details, essentially, you know, I was I asked the number different students. I think it was probably all all the freshmen required to take a number of different questionnaires in the like of different scenarios, and some of the instigators in this narrows war had, you know, they had pictures they were clearly Caucasian know insinuations of any other sort of race color anything like that. And then same exact scenarios, and they were people who they were pictures of people in name foce with Muslim descent, and with just trying to gauge were there stereotype implications coming in where they stronger, depending on if someone was presented to be a Caucasian, or, you know, different ethnicity. And so the expectation was the somewhat obvious. I've expectation right. It was oh. Would be higher as a result of group as a whole despite it being just a small group of individuals and actually be the opposite was true, which was incredibly interesting, right? So people were less likely to attribute adverse reactions to someone who was of the group that was of Muslim descent, so, you know, at the analysis, and I have to also give a shout out to my professor for many moons ago. And that was Elizabeth Ossoff. And so, you know, we worked through kind of the results, and there was just kind of FINA I'm going on where people were almost being protective. So they didn't want to the overreaction with. I don't want to be attribute more stereotypes just simply on the basis of a name or picture or anything like that. No. Here's here's what I think is interesting in this. This program is actually prompting me to go home. And dig that perhaps and read it if I can find it Miami. But I do wonder today if you are to have. That same type of test presented to the same type of people the same class of people. If those results would be the same given the vitriol that abound in in politics, and I do think it's quite interesting. And I think some of the things that the callers today, I've touched upon is why work like this become so important because not I mean, one would hope that you can not only learn from the past, but you can educate moving forward to. So how can how can we talk about public discourse? And the impacts. It's it's truly has had. And I I do wonder if if you could just take a snippet in time from what sixteen fifteen sixteen years ago and then apply today. I think it's interesting that is interesting post online force when you find that that hold these ascend. And what you think of after you read it, Abby. Thank you. So. Much. Let's get through in here from Detroit Michigan. Hi, drew. You're on the air. Hi, thank you for taking my call. You bet. When was your senior thesis through nineteen seventy six I graduated from Kalamazoo college with a major in history. Did my senior thesis on the Detroit riot of March six eighteen sixty three during the civil war. And I I wanna give a shout out to your earlier caller, Alex about history is not just remember as Asian tax numbers. If you get down into the nitty gritty and do the research, you realize that today's current events are tomorrow's history fifty years from now. What's in our news? What's broadcast by FOX? What's broadcast by him? MSNBC is going to be studied by somebody doing thesis at some point. Right true. Thank you very much for the call from Detroit. How let me bring another one of our gradu-. Into the conversation now from Minneapolis Minnesota. So FIA valenki who just graduated from the university of Minnesota. She's a twenty one year old from new preg-, Minnesota, and her thesis is titled sexy unique reality a close reading a Vam Dir plump Vander pump rules, so feel welcome to one point. Great to have you. So, you know, the Vander pump rules, it's Tim's favor program. Isn't it? I had to look it up today. For the uninitiated Sophia. What what is Vander pump rules? Yeah. Vander from Perlas reality television show, that's broadcast on the network. Bravo. And it follows the lives of a bunch of twenty to forty year olds who work at a restaurant called, sir. Which is it stands for sexy. Andy, gresh, toront- and the restaurant is owned by Lisa Vander pump. Who is the namesake character? All right. So what's the question? You were posing in your thesis that you hoped to answer. Yes. So when I started I honestly didn't really know what my question was. And it was more. The problem of can I read a reality show. Like, I would a book. Yeah. All right how so. It's a it's you, oh, it's hard to explain you have to I've realized utilize all of the elements of a reality TV show. You can't just I I kind of thought at first about just transcribing an episode and seeing if I could analyze it like I would any other of my English assignments. But I realized I have to take into account a lot of other aspects of the show like people's clothes in how long they're in a scene, background music and all of that stuff. All right. Here's a clip from the show vendor. Pump rules character James Kennedy here reflecting on an argument with Lalla Kent over pasta. The postal about the pasta. It's about LA showing respect for my girlfriend. How does law expect me to respect her man when she covers spec? My lady eight goes hand in hand. So some respect if you want to get it back. No gig off TV my goat. Tim group. This sounds like a very different kind of senior thesis to me, what do you think it really does? I'm reflecting back to my freshman year of college, which really was many moons ago. When one of my professors was unsuccessfully trying to get the university to include Bob Dylan songs in the great work of western civilization that didn't work, but I guess Vander pump rules of does. Now did did doing this project. Take the fun out of watching TV for you. And did you ever think? Like man, I could be out digging up mud samples like a normal college student. I thought that it wouldn't. But it did. No, no, I'm excited. Go I think that be able to bounce back and just enjoy. But there was an episode that was broadcast last night that I thought maybe since I'm done writing. I can just sit and relax and watch this. And it wasn't the case. So you're an English major, right? So fia. Yeah. Yeah. How do you see this translating this thesis works translating to a profession or to real life? Or do you at all? Is it just, you know, onto watching more Vanderbilt? Oh, I'd absolutely love to do stuff. Like this in real life. Television forever. That would be my perfect Cup of. All right. Well, good luck to you. I hope that works out. Thank you. All right. So FIU valenki university of Minnesota graduates on Saturday luck Sophia. Thank you, Tim grief. We're going to go back to the calls Janssen, Sarasota, Florida. Hi, Jan welcome to the program. Hi, hi. Did you write a thesis? Well, mine of first of all I graduated in nineteen seventy two so it was a while ago. This would be an interesting perspective because I graduated from the New England conservatory of music Boston. Yes. And my senior thesis was a live. Classical music recital. Fantastic. And what did you say? But did you play? Well, my instrument was the harpsichord I was a harpsichord student. So I played some very early music. I played a a piece by Bach and the piece by bowl and all sorts of other people you probably never heard of. But if you think it's nerve wracking to write a paper imagine a live performance as the the what you have to do to graduate. And how did it go? Jan how did it go? Yup. How did it go? It went great great. And I graduated and I had many years as of performing harpsichordist. So it worked great for you. And ironically, many years later when my daughter graduated she went to a an art school Ringling school of art, and design and studied computer animation. So her senior thesis was a piece of computer animation. She had to create. Well, that's interesting. Great tradition continues. Fun to see the perspective of what it's like for artists and musicians, they have to also present something love it. Jan thank you so much for calling a great perspective. Let me bring in now, which is actually a good lead into our next graduate from Meade Ville, Pennsylvania, Catherine Hubert, a graduate of Allegheny college. She's from Pennsylvania, the title of earth thesis is moose speak American music language. Catherine. Welcome to one point nice to have you. Thank you for having me. You just heard from Jan who years ago? Did her senior thesis as a a concert at any see New England conservatory here in in Boston. Tell us about your thesis about Newspeak. How did you develop it? Yes. So for centuries philosophers and linguists have been debating whether music and its current state can function as a language and their main argument against this is the fact. That music in instrumental sense cannot make direct Asir -tations. That is the musical experiences subjective. And so to try to fix that problem. I created Newspeak, which is the translational tool that takes English and converts it to American music language. So tell us more about that. I it it translates translates. What exactly? The system you could take English text and using a throve rules. I've developed take English texts and converted to pitches and a music. So the music that you hear is actually the English language that's been translated. So in the sense that sends music can make direct ascertains and function on its own as a language. Could sing the word. Hello to us. Need more than one person to? But yes, you could why would you need more than one person? So as part of the system each English letter corresponds to a musical pitch. And so there are twenty six letters in the English alphabet in only twelve musical pitches. And so in order for a word to sound you need to be able to stack the pitches. So imagine words are vertical now. And Hello is spelled H the top E ELO, and you need to have a pitch for every single one of the letters the listener knows that's the word. Hello is holistic. So you'd either needs to play the piano or find five people make sense. Wow words are vertical. I love it. So very slow way to communicate. Tactical at all. In college. Yeah. But it just solved the problem. Right music. Can now I think I could say music is now language, right? We could have those applications so you actually translated Edgar Allan Poe's tell tale heart into music, right? Just part of it. I'm I'm gonna play a bit of it does set this up for us. What are we going to hear hear Katherine? Yes. The whole fundamental basis of the system is really based around the fact that there are universal emotions one of which is anger. And so these emotions are paired with musical modes, which are seven of in a mode is like a scale, and it has certain feelings that give it unique properties. And so in post piece, the overall emotion is clearly anger. Spoiler alert for those who don't know. The narrator goes on to kill an old man out of rage. So what you're going to hear is the translated tax which will be in the trumpet, French horn trombone Defoe. Neom violin and to buff. And so when you hear those instruments, those are what's carrying post. Translation, there's also based from representing the heartbeat and other company meant to enhance the translation, James. Wow. So again, we're their vertical and they're represented here. Each word has a Representative musical note. I guess right. I think Taylor swift doesn't have anything to worry about just. Can you can you listen to this and translate it backwards and your head? So you can hear the music and understand what's being what words were. And I don't know if that's the product of major spending, countless hours writing this or the actually big able to translate quickly. I wanted to end with your very compelling personal story, Catherine tell us why you decided to do this. I've got about a minute left here. Yes. So I have a condition called Ayler Stanley syndrome. It's college disorder college, essentially, the glue that hold your body together. And so mine doesn't work properly, which means I have a lot of problems like chronic pain and fatigue and one of the things that makes condition is repetitive movements. And so as percussionist that means I can't really keep playing because I'll just be damaging my body. And so in order to shift away from playing, but still stay keep music part of my life. I design the system and moving more towards competition. Say you're not just a recent graduate of Allegheny college. But you're soon to be PHD candidate in genetics at the university of Wisconsin. Well, good luck to you, Katherine chant you so much for bringing us MU speak today. We really appreciate it. And Tim grieve, we wouldn't we couldn't do this. Without you every year best of luck with your new venture. And your college kids are probably writing these pretty soon so true to to almost on one more on the way. So I'm in city here. Good luck. And thanks again. Tim, thank you listeners. Thanks to you. I'm Jane clayson. This is on point.

Tim Jane clayson Texas Walden pond Twitter Facebook Alex Florida Massachusetts ABC Hannah professor McClatchy John Oliver Georgetown Boston Detroit Allegheny college Salem state university
#EERS S9 Ep205: Trump is Still President.  Surprise.

The Erick Erickson Show

2:01:04 hr | 2 d ago

#EERS S9 Ep205: Trump is Still President. Surprise.

"Hello and welcome. It's eric erickson here. The eric erickson show everywhere even streaming online. You know we've got erick erickson. Show dot com. Set up to go if you can't get your local so you should listen on your local station. But if you're out of town and traveling erickson show dot com. Now you can get the livestream there. I m stunned by the number of people who listen to this program. Who aren't even in. Georgia makes me feel good. Makes me feel like a national show already but nonetheless You can also call in the phone. Number is eight. Seven seven nine seven eric. Eight seven seven nine seven three seven four to five this may surprise some people some They just blown away. Did you know the president of the united states is donald trump. the media is so ready to get beyond president trump's presidency. You would not know. He's still president and yet he stretching his legs. The president has decided to veto the indy. A that's the national defense authorization act. It's essentially the budget for the department of defense. And he wants to veto it. Well originally said he was going to veto it. Because congress decided to change the names of several military installations that were named for confederate generals including fort bragg and he was gonna veto it for that He's now not gonna veto it for that. He's going to veto it. Because it doesn't include a repeal of section two thirty section thirty is in the telecommunications action to thirty applies to internet a companies like facebook twitter google. And if you own a website and have a comment section and applies to you as well is essentially what section two-thirty thirty says is that Internet companies cannot be held liable for someone coming to their website and putting information on their website that is not true if if the internet companies are not actively seeking encouraging it etc etc etc Essentially if if you're a publisher if you're a publisher that is you are responsible for the content. You oversee you edit it you control it you publish it and you put something defamatory under website you can be sued. But if you're just an internet company where you let other people come put stuff up. You can't be held liable. And the president wants section to thirty repealed so members of congress republicans and democrats alike. Frankly one rewritten. Because of what. Twitter has been doing in particular but some degree facebook as well where these companies have taken down stuff other people said largely due to an a left wing outrage machine That has captured the media. The media in this country are relentlessly. Hates facebook in so they make it about facebook constantly. if you will recall a facebook had an algorithm change that monetize video on facebook and so a lot of A lot of media companies did their pivot to video. They called it. We're instead of producing great written content. They decided to do video content to monetize it. Well it turns out They were letting facebook control everything. Facebook was happy to let them do it into put ads in but it didn't make them as much money as initially thought and a whole lot of people lost their jobs and these media companies that were in and of themselves stupid. They essentially allowed mark zuckerberg to run their companies for them instead of them making their businesses by. It's not sucker burg's fault. It's these in the media. Who didn't know what they were doing. Who really if you go back. I trust trust me. This goes back to the president. If you will go back in the day at the rise of blogs you had the cbs news story about george w bush and the The air national guard story. Dan rather pushed the story. The whole was b. s it was a fabricated document and it was the bloggers powerline blog. That really put them on the map. Great guys and they exposed that it was impossible for a typewriter in the nineteen seventies to have generated this document that it was a microsoft document and microsoft word and computers as we know him now did not exist in the nineteen seventies therefore the whole thing was a fraud. Dan rather lost his job. So so did the producer and for years. They've refused to acknowledge that they were played. They were had because they wanted to believe it. Well the idiots who did all of that were preening. That will you know blogs will never amount to anything and we have editors and we have checks well the despite your editors and your checks you fell for story you got caught and people lost their jobs and it was the bloggers who found out well. The newspaper companies very arrogantly have for years been running their business into the ground. I mean look at mcclatchy. So i i have a column in the local paper in making it which is now a mcclatchy owned paper in the mcclatchy. She's running all of their local papers into the ground around the country. You know so. I had this call. This gives you a perfect encapsulation of how the media companies in america work mcclatchy by the way is going into bankruptcy. I did this column for seven. Years for free am last year. They informed me that they would have to cancel the call. Because i wasn't being paid. That is why they had cancelled the call him. They could not accept free columns. I done it for seven years as a favor to the publisher of the paper at the time. So i i did that and They now pay me fifty dollars a week for my column except they've never actually paid me. I think i've gotten one paycheck from mcclatchy one paycheck so they went through all this song and dance or had to sign a contract fifty dollars a week and they paid me. What's now. I get it my house every couple of weeks. Somebody else's paycheck does not mine if somebody else and yeah so that. That's the american media companies. They're not exactly on fire. These days Mcclatchy is going bankrupt mcclatchy. Also the news outlet that published the michael cohen gone to prague story and michael cohen gone to prague and didn't actually go to prague and even even the the muller investigators came out and said this isn't true mcclatchy stands by. They've never retracted the story. You got all the time to the washington post Amazon or bill. Jeff bezos said the by the washington post to save it and these people are pissed at mark zuckerberg trying to help him and it because he was trying to help him and things didn't go well they every time there's a problem. The media goes after mark zuckerberg. They never go after twitter. The media loves twitter because twitter's a progressive organization that relentlessly punishes conservatives so they go after facebook facebook occasionally. Take stuff out remember. Facebook never took down the video of the guy who made the thing about nancy pelosi in the leftist to this day livid that they didn't take it down and they hold it over facebook set all the time and in any event Facebook has had to be more aggressive and taking stuff down from the right just to placate the media in twitter. Does it all the time. Twitter now puts notes on pretty much every tweet from the president. They've taken tweets staffer in the presence of the president wants to get rid of section two thirty and the reason is this section to thirty. Says if you're a publisher it doesn't apply if you're just a a hosting company applies. Well these companies are technically hosting companies. Because you can go put up whatever you want. But now that they're making editorial judgments about what should or should not be there in attaching notations to them that puts them in publisher territory. The law's not clear now. Can you be a publisher and also not in. Where's the line in. These companies exists because of section two thirty and the president's mad as hell about it now and so he wants to thirty gone and if he gets rid of section thirty it's gonna kill facebook and twitter and a host of other organizations and your local website. Your local website with the comment section would be destroyed because of section two thirty going away because now section thirty one way you could be sued. You run your little blog. Let's say it your cooking blog and and someone comes on and says that that Joe blow is a satanic pedophile. Who is destroying american and running a child rape organization in in his back office Well then joe blow can sue for defamation because it's not true and there's nothing you can do about it because it's on your website under with section two thirty. He can't sue you because you didn't leave that comment there. You don't even read the comics because who reads the comments. Nobody reads the comments. The comments were from the pit of hell. You don't read comments on the internet. The president himself has like a a an elected comments section. He wants it to go away. He wanted it stuck into the defense authorization. Act they're not doing it and so he's going to veto the defense budget which goes. Shut down the department of defense though you can say. That's fine. he's he's he may cave. Who knows what we're going full circle now. I'm a professional can title this stuff together. The president is the president of the united states and for the last two weeks. The media has pretended that he wasn't he is he. They're mad at him over the assassination of the guy in in iran. They believe israel would have never done it without trump twitter scuttling job. I was you're he's making joe to get peace with israel or with iran was so who wants peace with around there a terrorist regime. Anyway we'll the left does and they're mad that they are having to be reminded on a daily basis that donald trump is still president of the united states. But wait there's more there's also the covid relief bill. The democrats want to two trillion dollar package. They wanna essentially reward all of their friends with your taxpayer dollars. They don't want to bail out small businesses. They don't want to just help struggling individuals they wanna bail out their friends. They want to give money to unions. union groups left wing activist groups all this stuff and and the president trump today nope the republicans that we got to keep it under a billion dollar or under a trillion dollars the democrats twenty two trillion with a t two trillion dollar package for covert and the republicans are saying no. We still have to be somewhat fiscally responsible. I mean i. it's bad when the republicans after doing what they've done with the budget over the last. Several years are like wait a second. We we need to. We need to not spending so much. Yes the debt and the deficit matter whether people believe it matters or not now romney and some of the republicans have come out and said we need to do a big bailout package You spend in into debt in times of crisis. This is a crisis but wait a second. We're still not willing to spend that much. And the democrats want even more and the president is blocking that. Why because he's the president of the united states. It's i it only a matter of time. I promise you this. We are less than a week away from big think pieces from the left on how when the electoral college meets on december fourteenth actually Confirm joe biden is going to be president something. Some of you still think isn't going to happen but it is that the president's parishes go away it should be held by by some sort of a holding pattern government a a government like it when they're hung parliaments and stuff. A caretaker government exists when you can't get coalition belgium. Right now i think. Belgium has a caretaker government. That's lasted two years because they can't come to consensus on having an election and the voters keep having a hung parliament. You know israel's about to head into election the twenty thousand th time in the last two years and so you know the thing he's coming. Government should be placed into a caretaker government the moment the electoral college which just stop. Donald trump from disrupting joe. Biden's agenda you know. It's a matter of time. Someone right now is pulling the corncob out of there but to be able to down comfortably and write it. But he's going to be. President will noon on january twentieth. Some of you think further than that. That's not gonna happen but he matters he's still matters and as much as the media resents like hell that he matter. She matters and he can veto the defense authorization act. He may see his first veto override by congress. But then there's the other big issue you know what happens in tim days. Actually it's less than ten days now because it it's nine days now. No eight days eight days. It happens eight days. 'cause this december tenth when it happens yes right my friends. A government shutdown happens in eight days unless congress can pass a continuing resolution and the president decides deciding law. And there's no guarantee that's going to happen. I got a. I got a little bit of a confession to make and this actually is serious I i don't actually mean this. Humorously i have a confession to make. I have been told now over the last number of years. That if i ever wanna become successful in talk radio in make it to the big leagues. There are things that i have to avoid talking about. One of those things is faith. He can't talk about faith You can't talk about abortion unless it's in the news and you shouldn't talk about guns and i've been told this by some of the most prominent people behind the scenes in radio but there's another issue on which i have specifically been told in fact told within the last month that i should not talk about at all ever if i ever want to become a success in national talk radio and i'm sorry i'm going to talk about it you'll i really don't care that ellen page the actress has decided she's now elliott page. I really. I don't care what i do care about though and i care greatly about this is the idea that we've all got to go along with it as if it's something perfectly normal and you know i i've been told you can't talk about this stuff on radio you're not allowed to. You will get canceled. They will vilify you. You'll never be able to the national networks. The the lgbtq is a p whatever it is The alphabet game will come for you and you will never be able to make it i. I'm sorry all if you haven't heard ellen page the actress who was in the movie. Juno of one of the most pro-life movies ever made an apparently she resented like elvis. It was seen as a pro-life movie because she is a very very progressive person. This is the woman who attacked chris. Pratt the actor for going to a christian church and actually you know. There are a lot of poser churches. You can go to in hollywood a lot of churches where you don't actually have to believe anything in the bible and you can go and everybody's perfectly fine with you going to those churches so you can be seen performative lead to be a christian without actually being. When chris pratt actually goes to a legitimately orthodox christian church not orthodox in the denominational since but bible believing evangelical christian church in los angeles where the pasture has actually preached on what the bible says about sin including sexual sin and so he vilify our. She attacked him for doing that. She is a hyper progressive activists. Years ago she announced she was a lesbian. I believe in a now yesterday. She announced that she is elliott in transgender. Okay what i find. I find it absurd. And that's the word i'm going to use is all the people who rush out so yeah elliot always been elliott always been elliott. Don't you say l. Note you know you you. You can't say ellen it's elliot it's always been elliott. Are we gonna go back and revise the movie posters because they say ellen and changed elliott and. This is the point that infuriated people when i noted this yesterday whether you agree with it or not. Let's just acknowledged that there are a bunch of people on the left who say that they just don't understand how when the president says something. That's not true. All of his supporters can rush out and a firm. Whatever it is that isn't true According to the left at the present were to come out tomorrow and say the grass is blue in the sky is green then every single person who supports the president would come out in a firm that Green is the new blue and blue the new green and then the next day if the president said he never actually said that it was so i never agree to that. I didn't say the president never said it that's the left caricature of of of people who support the president. Okay but it really is the same thing when when someone comes out and says well i'm elliot and i was always elliott and i'm actually a boy and everyone loves us. Oh yes yup absolutely and your hateful bigot. If you don't go along with it and they're infuriated me for pointing that out and say it's not the same thing it's not no it actually is the exact same thing. It is a herd mentality where you have to a for what your tribe says regardless of the science or the truth of the matter asserted and the the the bullying campaign by people that. If you don't affir- things contrary to biology and science that you are a hateful bigot. You're somehow a bad person. The other thing that i learned yesterday that so longer. Lgbtq plus it's lgbtq a and you gotta go along with those. I just i. It changes so fast. It's too hard to keep up with now. I realize that's going to offend people for me. Say this. I'm told you can't talk about this stuff but the whole thing and i allowed to just say that that the the the willful. Oh no it's always been this way. And i know there's just something not right with that and it's not about her spent everybody else. Who's just so willing to flip the switch like that just because someone says so. That's very much the same thing they say about the other side. I was just trading emails with jimmy at true precision of buddy of mine Win this morning to buy himself a barrel and the discount code. Eric was there. They got any website yesterday. Jewish give them a little bit They'll have it back up after lunch. They're rolling some stuff over a you know. This is a great time to tell you guys to go true precision And the reason that you should is because they're awesome. They make slides and barrels triggers. They make upgrades to your handguns. Really fine upgrades. They really are fantastic as their local their acworth but the demand is crazy right now. That's what we're just texting back and forth on this and it is. It's it's a crazy time to be gun manufacturer. I feel like i need to sell stock and buy guns. And he tells me i need to do the same thing Yes i do in you guys need to go to true precision Look i actually am a customer. There's this is just an ad although it is. They are an advertiser. And i appreciate them so much because i am a customer. There's i believe in this company. They are incredible. They make a parts for your firearms for your hand guns. They got various brands and models within those brands. I've got a glock. Forty three x from them. I want to get a new slide for my glock. Nineteen as well and they're just incredible guys. It's an incredible company. They are incredibly well manufactured well-made part for your firearms if you want somebody local that is just awesome to upgrade your firearm and they can send you the parts. You can do it yourself. You go to true dash precision dot com true dash precision dot com and at checkout. Give him a couple of hours. They they gotta fix the website. 'cause 'cause they just upgraded But you'll see a checkout code. And you put eric in k. And you'll get ten percents off. Heat is well worth it Now i need to get to relive remember. I'm sorry i just. I'm trying to keep track of all the stuff. 'cause y'all disclosure. I was gonna talk about this. Maybe this is why never to be a national of so undisciplined. I i am done talking about the last election. I don't care that you're still grieving. I don't care that you think it was stolen. It wasn't i. I don't care that you don't believe me. I'm done the amount of people who are y'all. I am literally getting death threats from people who think i'm committing treason by not going along with this but wait. It gets better. Charlie and philip. Listen to this. Both of you need listen to this. I haven't had a chance to talk to you all this morning about this. This blew my mind. A a friend of mine called me philip. We're not gonna we're not gonna put this little segment. Even though i recorded. Were probably better not put this up. A friend of mine called me last night. Had dinner he had had dinner with relatives and the relatives are insistent that the election was stolen. Eat is all part of a new world order plot and we're headed towards communism and his response was well. You know i. I listened to eric on the radio and he has made some rational Points on how it really was stolen and the relatives expressed to him that someone has gotten to me and they wonder if my family needs a well check or is my family being held hostage. That was my head hitting the microphone. Yes actually thinks that i. I need to need to do a heavy. Well check on my family to make sure they're safe because someone is clearly gotten to me that i'm not willing to publicly state that it is a deep state conspiracy to steal the election. And at that moment. I knew it was time to move on because a lot of people have internalized. I am actually getting death. Threats from people my my company wonders if they need to cover security from my house. Because i'm getting death threats from people who in by the way i. I'm not taking them seriously. I'm not even forty. Because i know i've been through this before. It's just just people who are mad. They think i'm on their side. They feel betrayed by me for not being on their side of this issue. So they're taking it out on me yelling. And they're just melting off their burdens st blowing off steam. And i get it. Not a big deal. It's not like the the people who showed up at my house in two thousand sixteen and threatened by family. We actually have people show up at our door like literally on our front porch. Just people mouth and off blowing off steam and i get it. People are livid people are angry. People are broken. The world is broken but this whole idea that from a from a sane reasonable person who's barely lost their mind that my family may be being held hostage and that is why i'm not willing to publicly say that this is a deep state plots bill the election and create a new world order. That's communist ivan brain blown so it's time for me to move on some of you don't want to but i'm i'm i gotta be done talking about the election because it's fueling a victim mentality and if you've ever if you've listened to this program at all and i realized this this program has only been here for your but i've been the radio for eleven years no haven't and not yet eleven years nine years nine years. It was two thousand eleven. When i started. I- hor the idea of being a victim. That's what the left does the left your your victim of the white guy. You're a victim of the patriarchy. You're you're a victim of capitalism your victim of everything and and if you're if you consider yourself a victim than you believe that there is some sort of light like the old white dude's getting room and plot against u The the capitalist get getting room and conspire against you and now if you're on the right in your side lost you. It doesn't matter what i tell you. You believe your victim and if you're a victim you believe the conspiracy. You believe the lies. Did god help me. Do you know how i know that. The georgia machines were stolen. Because the moment you point out that the the paper ballots matched the machines. The people who told you that the machines were hacked immediately. Moved the goalposts to what about the absentee ballots. Wait a second. You wanted to engage on the machines were were hacked and the machine stole the vote. Well what about the fcc ballots. Let's deal with the machines. Were what about you. You just move goebbels. What about you. You're see you've just musical by way. There's a problem with the absentee ballots. Now there's no evidence for no one has actually made allegations of fraud and and people are saying we'll show us the signature shows signatures. Well there's no point in showing you the now because by law in georgia. There was a time for people to do that and no one wanted to do it at the time. See this is the problem. Is that you. There was a statutory period by which you could examine the signatures and protests and object to steve out electors and not a soul in trump campaign bothered to do it. Your timeline has run out. Choice the ballots. Well let's do it for the runoff. Now and people are internalized. This actually had an angry email from guy last night who listens to this program Who lives in macon who said he's not voting anymore systems rigged. He's not voting. You didn't care about leffler and produce. They're not gonna stand up and fight this. He's not gonna fight for them. Okay and into the democrats. Cmo life. i'm starting to his myself. I gotta i gotta move on. Let me let me do this one last time in. Then we're done and we're not gonna take any calls on the subject ever again because you need to get out of your victim mindset. Here's how i know. The machines were not stolen in georgia. They're not connected to the internet. Now i know that you're hearing people say they're connected to the internet but they're not connected to the internet. They're not do you know how certification the results get to the secretary of state's office now they do transmitted in a phone line And the unofficial results. They transmit them essentially by modem. But do you know that. Those are the official results. Do you know how they get. The official results to atlanta to make sure they're secured. They literally print the piece of paper out and have the georgia state patrol drive it to the sector estates office. That's how off the internet. The results are that's how off the internet. The things are so. I talked to a cybersecurity expert. One of the cybersecurity experts who is convinced the machines or stolen now. So you saying well. You're not a cybersecurity expert in your expert. I helped design the freaking system. When i was in leaving law school and kathy cox was the secretary of state here in georgia I was an intern. That was like the only kid in law school in the entire city. Georgia who wanted to do election law and we were transitioning from Paper ballots to electronic voting machines. And kathy cox the secretary of state at the time in the state of georgia one of the few democrats i reliably voted for because she was a fantastic secretary of state and probably would have actually been a great governor. Even if i disagreed with their own stuff kathy cox. She's now the dean of the mercer law. School kathy cox. What the the the insight in the year two thousand and after the two thousand of buckle as people start talking about these voting machines today it would not be a good idea to put the stuff on the internet. And i remember she probably has. She probably didn't even remember that i was there. I was just some some law school geek. Who wanted to do election law. There were people who insisted it would be so easy if we just did this all over the internet. No no no no. It was decided not to be it. So i talked to the cybersecurity expert. The all just go along with me here to the cybersquatters who's convinced the machines are hacked and end. And i just i have a question. Just one question. How is it in georgia that the paper ballots in the machines align in the cybersecurity expert explains that you know when you go vote on election day. You're checked in with the machine there's an ipad touchscreen and they they they touch you in they look your driver's license. They check in well. That machine with the list of voters is connected to the cloud and because it's connected to the cloud it can reach into the cloud and pull the data back and say oh eric. Erickson is a hard republican who regularly votes. He's probably going to look at his paper ballot and see that displays his name. So we're not gonna mess with his ballot and then the next person comes in. They pulled out of the cloud. Oh john smith here hardly ever votes. We're going to when he touches trump. We're going to actually print his ballot out. And it's gonna save biden because we know that jokers not even gonna look at his ballot. He didn't even know what he's doing. And so the machine then relays to the voting machine print his ballot as joe biden. This is the cybersecurity experts theory now news to the cybersecurity expert. Did you know that the machines on which you check into go vote are not connected to the internet so they can't reach out to the cloud but wait there's more they're not even built by the same company that does the voting machines. This is one of the ways to prevent fraud. So the actual ipads on which you are touched in their made by a company in colorado that is completely unconnected to dominion voting systems. It's tech company. Colorado that's not related in any way too many. There's a completely separate system. It uses a programming language for the macintosh for apple computer for ios. Re not the mac. It is custom built. It uses apple systems. It doesn't use microsoft systems. The dominion verse systems are run off of windows seven. They use microsoft. They're wholly incompatible with the system. That checks you in the system. That checks you in his completely. Offline what happens is before the polling booster setup. Each precinct's ipads are loaded with all of the voters who could show up at that precinct and no one else. That's why if show up and you're not on that list. You gotta do a provisional ballot. 'cause they can't connect to the internet to see if you really should be there now. Those ipads themselves have are integrated with each other so if on ipad a direction on ipads b. c. and d. Eric erickson is also checked off But they communicate internally inside that polling location via router that is not then connected to the internet. It's just the ipads themselves are connected to each other in a local area network. That doesn't go onto the internet in. Those machines are completely different from the voting machines so it would be completely impossible contrary to what the cybersecurity expert partially it would be completely impossible for these machines to relate to the voter machines. One one's a mac the others a windows machine to none of them are connected to each other three. they're not connected to the internet. She had no idea about this and she didn't wanna believe you should want to take my word for it but on top of that you know. There's such thing as as a risk assessment audit. Now you need if you only listen to me on one thing today. If you only listen to me on one thing today you need to listen to me on this. You need understand what the risk assessment audit is every state by law does risk assessment audit every state that uses the electronic voting machines uses risk assessment on it. Now what is it by the way it's all been done. A risk assessment audit is when after after the election is over not a moment before the results are certified. The risk for i guess i should say certified because they've all been done a novel the results with certified but after all the votes have been counted they randomly select precincts in a state. Every state does this. They randomly select urban rural precincts. And they go hand. Count the balance ninety seven percent of the electronic voting machines that are used in this country. Generate paper ballots now. Only three percent. Don't generate paper ballots so ninety seven percent of them do and after. The election is over. The state randomly selects precincts and goes in hand counts the ballots to make sure that they matched the machines. Will you know which precincts are going to be selected to be able to avoid hacking those areas because they're not even picked until after the election is concluded and their randomly selected and observed by republicans and democrats alike So there's a bipartisan process. So you go pick the preachings after the election is over. You can't the hell. Hell hand ballots in the precinct to make sure they match with the machines of the precinct. Said guess what every state's done it and they all match not a very good hacking job if if a random selection of precincts in all fifty states showed the paper ballots in the machines matched when there's just it it they didn't act so now i'm done. We're not gonna approach this subject again. You're not gonna call it about the subject. I don't care that you're crazy. Ant is circulating something on facebook that makes you believe it was stolen. It wasn't stolen. I can't persuade you otherwise. You can be a victim. Just like the progressives but i'm done treating you as victim. I'm done treating you as a child. It's time to grow up and focus on january. We don't want the president's agenda get wiped out by the senate going to the democrats. We need to win the senate and the way we do it is for you to grow up suck it up. Stop being a baby and realize you can still win in january muggy. This gracious. I'm sorry yes yes. I i remember it. I sadly Only i remember. I got a listener. Her who just emailed and said the reason you'll never make it on national. Radio is because you talk about demon sperm. I'm sorry. I totally. I blocked from my mind. Greg it's all your fault. Remember loose the manual woman. She was at the press conference about About which by the way there are new studies out on a directed learning with turns out. The president was right. It actually works but this woman was part of the press conference in an she believes in demon sperm Yes yeah yup What was dow dangerous man. I now i now. I gotta google to remind myself just after. I've i've tried to block all of this from my my mind. yes That apparently A lot of illness. What it comes from Essentially scrimping with demons. And yes. yeah that she was a. She advocated the belief in. Oh boy In a sermon emmanuel offered a sort of dem- analogy of the biblical character she claims exist as demonic spirits and lust after dream sex with humans causing all matter of real health problems and financial. Ruin your got. No other radios would talk about this. Which is why. I'll never amount any think. Emmanuel claims real life ailments like fibroid tumors and cysts. Still from tim monica sperm. After demon dream sex and activity. She claims affects many women. They turn into a woman and then they sleep with the man and collect his bodily fluids then they turn into the man and they sleep with a man and deposit the bodily fluids and reproduce more of themselves. Yep yup yup yup. Yup that we did. That was that happened this year. All the stuff that happened this year that we have repressed man it just it while it keeps coming back a we got. We got move on when we come back. We got georgia news. Talk about and we got a block this back out of my mind on e. brain bleach. Is there something interfering your happiness or preventing you from achieving your goals. Your i don't know like me you get bogged down in the about things that didn't work out and it just frustrates you. And you get aggravated. And so you don't even proceed. Well let me tell you about better. Help they'll assess your needs and match you with your own license professional therapists you start communicating and under forty eight hours. It's not a crisis line. It's not self-help professional counseling done securely online. There's a broad range of expertise available which may not be locally available in your area. The services available for clients worldwide. You can log onto your account anytime you can send a message to a counselor. You'll get timely thoughtful responses plus you can schedule weekly video or phone sessions so you won't ever have to sit in an uncomfortable. Waiting room like with a lot of traditional therapy better help is committed to facilitating great therapeutic matches so they make it easy and free to change counselors if needed is more affordable than traditional offline counseling and financial aids available. Better help wants you to start living a happier life today. Visit their website read their testimonials. They're posted daily. Go to better help dot com slash reviews to check out those reviews. And go to better help dot com slash eric. That's better h. E. l. p. and join over million people who've taken charge of their mental health with the help of an experienced professional in fact so many people have been using better help that they're recruiting additional counselors at all fifty states a special offer for you guys you get ten percent off your first month. You got to better help. B. e. t. t. e. r. h. e. l. p. dot com slash. Eric hello and welcome. It is your erickson here man. Y'all heard the first hour of the program. I'm going to be cancelled. Welcome in his eric. the phone number if you want to call in and be part of the program is eight. Seven seven nine seven eric. Eight seven seven nine seven three seven four to five and i am way behind all the stuff i was going to talk about. So let's get going. What are what are they going to do. And donald trump has gone. Have your pondered this question. 'cause stephen colbert is out with some sort of interview i guess in vanity fair or something and a stephen colbert is he has essentially for. He got his start. During the bush administration and then just became a serial lead. Comfort of barack obama when obama was in power and now trump is leaving. He turned his. Cbs late night. Show he replaced david letterman and it became all politics all the time when it becomes your religion. I guess you can do that. And what are these people going to do in. Donald trump has gone. What are late night. Comedians other than jimmy fallon jimmy fallon never engaged in the way that What kimmel and and and what you call baron in some of the others have done. He never never went down. The highly partisan charge wrote and in fact the left tried to cancelling the left wanted to cancel him because he wasn't willing to be a hyper partisan critic of the trump administration. He tried to do comedy without it. I suspect he's got more staying power. What are these other people going to do and we. They're just just organs of the democratic party. At some point it gets kind of boring. Well what is married. Trump going to marry trump according to the drudge report. What is drudge gonna do. What drudge decidedly did turn on the president and has steered dredges left column in upper upper. Third of his side is is the most ran on his site. And it really turned into essentially a daily anti-trump dia. What's going to do me. He's got a lot of. He's probably the one guy doesn't care but he's i saw i 'cause i still go jump because he's more of an aggregated than anything and i gotta i gotta figure out what what what is. What's mary trump gonna do because she came to fame writing this book. I'm sure she credits yourself with taking down the trump family. She's got another book coming out what you're gonna do now is she. Just got to keep trying to surf off the fairly legacy. At some point you can run on the stories. people are gonna wanna barbeque. Wrote the these anti-trump books. What are the lincoln project folks go you know. They're they're going to try to claim credit if republicans cost themselves the senate seats georgia. I mean the republicans should win the two senate seats in georgia. The numbers are underside. The data's on their side all of its on their side except they've internalized that the last race was stolen and so someone will say well. Screw this. I'm not going to go vote anymore. The elections reagan. So they're gonna throw it away themselves and hand the democrats the senate in fact you know by the way. There is a democratic effort now in georgia. They're starting to run billboards that say the election was stolen. Just don't bother voting again and it's a democratic party effort making themselves look like the republicans telling republicans don't bother. It reminds me remember the old iraqi information minister as the americans are coming into baghdad. Guys like there are no americans year the takes her in the background surrounding this either. Those are not american taste though. Don't believe that they no attention to the man behind the curtain. The democrats say don't go vote. Republicans they're right. We stole it. Actually kind of clever internal the internalized nuts who believe everything was stolen and and the democrats yet. We still don't go vote january. Please don't go vote january. What are these people going to lincoln project. People do when when the president goes away. I guess they're going to become full in bed with the democratic party. Which were they had headed. But what is cnn gonna do. What are the people brian. Stelter going to do other than than do performance of coming of the biden administration. It's just so much better than the trump administration. This is just so awesome. Nobody to come on and say that biden's killed more people than hitler. Now what the president has been the meal ticket for a lot of the left for the last four years. And what are they gonna do now. I hope they've been saving their money. I hope they had somebody to advise them on where to store their cash up because that man i mean their meal ticket going away when the president goes away all the comedians who have for four years been able to have an easy go of it. A very unbought full goal of making jokes about the president of supporters. I guess they'll continue to beat up supporters in placate the religion of the left as opposed to do anything else. But where these going to go. Where are they going to make their money. Now that they won't have donald trump to kick around. I guess focus on twenty twenty four campaign and they'll keep it about donald trump as long as that a last. Try to run out the meal ticket. There is something very similar that happens in in the years when democrats are in power. I'm sure we will have a run of republican books. Salaciously now telling us all of the stuff about the inside scoop on the biden administration from up sources Just as democrats have had made up sources for the last four years in the trump administration both sides. Do i get annoyed with the whole phenomenon. They're actually really good people who write really good books that are detailed and yet it's the cranks the crackpots that come out with the most salacious conspiracy laden stuff that oh let's go buy this book from the crazy person with new sources. Who made them all up sitting on the toilet wedneday. I guess that's where we're going to be back to now. Let's talk about georgia because georgia going to be up to well. The democrats you should know are already ahead of the republicans on the absentee ballot. Game here in georgia. This is one of my sheer frustrations with people still litigating. The last election is the republicans are so focused. The republican party is so focused on the last the aftermath of the general election. They have it ramped. Up their game for the runoff. The democrats pivoted from the general right to the runoff. A and you can stream all you want about absentee vote fraud. They're legitimate concerns there but the democrats georgia are already outpacing. Republicans on absentee ballots again now. The republicans legitimately have the right to go to local board of elections in challenge any elector. Who's getting an absentee ballot. And they should but they're so distracted by the last lecture. They're not even doing that. You know you yourself if you were registered to vote have the right to show up at your local board of elections in look at all the people who have gotten an absentee ballot who have sent in about request and you can challenge them and say. This person shouldn't have won. This person shouldn't have won. This person have one because this is a felon this person's dead. This person's moved. You can do that. They have to publicly. Allow you to see the list and right now. Nobody on the republican side is doing this. They're still screaming about what happened a month ago. And the democrats are outpacing. The republicans frappes de balance but the president is coming on saturday. Which is good. The president will be here for sarah. I don't know where he's going yet. I don't know that they know where he's going yet. The vice president will be here on friday. The vice president is going to savannah he wants to rally coastal republicans To turn out when you look at where there was a turnout impact in georgia. One of the places where republicans lag behind was along the coast the savannah area. It's a it's a military region. It should be very republican. There voting lagged Other parts of the state the get out the vote machine didn't do well there so the vice president's going there with leffler and purdue they're gonna make a big rally out of it a unite. The right i guess. I shouldn't say that. Because that's what the idiots charlottesville us for their party so a turn out the gop unite the gop rally. How 'bout that will use that one. the vice president Leffler purdue. I assume the governor will go. I'm assuming brand. Burger will be busy that day. And you know i suspect wherever the president shows up on saturday. The governor's go there as well. Because that's the sort of guy. Brian campus. He will show up. He will shake the president's hand. Welcome him into the state of georgia. That'll be a good thing Now we're is the president going to go and what's he gonna do. This is one of the concerns that a lot of republicans currently have. Where do the voters go. Do they stay home or do they. A turn out and vote. Where do the voters go. Because they go to bed. Do they turn out. There is a fear that the republican president comes down to a republican runoff in georgia and says the election was stolen and makes it all about himself. That you're gonna have trouble getting the republicans to turn out. I think if the president goes to the north metro area goes back to middle georgia. He's going to be able to rally those people to come out and vote he's going to. There are people who are internalizing the election and they need to not and if the president comes down he doesn't make it about himself. He doesn't agree of himself the last election. But he focuses on leffler and purdue he's going to be able to turn those people out. Here's this is the bottom line and this is super important for everyone to understand in georgia if the republicans win just one of the two seats. They can block the democrats from wiping out president. Trump's legacy and this is something that multiple people myself included have tried to convey to the white house to make sure the president understands that he has done a lot of things that are lasting and good if the republicans hold the senate if the republicans do not hold the senate The democrats will wipe out every last bit of it So republicans have to be emotionally invested in this election understanding that at this point they can't save the president but they can save his legacy and the question for the president is. Does he want to continue down. The road of of this kiosk scheme About a stolen election or does he want to save his legacy. does he want to save his tax cuts. Does he wanna save his regulatory plan. Does he want to save all the major things. he's done Does he wanna save his foreign policy. Even because the senate can share that with the confirmation of ambassadors and and a treaties and things like that does the reason saved. Do you want to save it. do you want to save it. You want to save it. You've got to go vote in january People need to engage in clearly. There is a talking point shaping up now in the media about divided government in in even some people privately are whispering on the democratic side that it would be good if we had divided government of the republicans kept the senate. Here's joe scarborough. Talking to jake tapper on cnn. I don't know why. Joe was on cnn but here they are listed. This this is telling you know. Joe biden is facing exactly what the american people wanted him to face They wanted divided government. You look at those house races. Republicans did extraordinarily well winning twenty four twenty four toss up races and not losing a single incumbent in the senate They fared much better than the poll said they were going to fare. Susan collins winning by nine points in a state that joe biden won by nine points and so. It's obvious that americans want divided government. If you look at the eight nine senators right now from both parties. That are trying to work together to push through a coronavirus package i i. I am always too optimistic when it comes to all things washington but i really think we have the possibility of some republicans and democrats working together and i seen expanding middle. And that's something. That joe biden were than any other president My gosh since what. Lbj understands how the senate works maybe understands. A divided government is going to be interesting if that's what people do it. This is the most telling part. Honestly it is that the the democrats are upset. The progressives are upset with brock obama for coming out and saying the defunding. The police is a slogan that loss votes. The progressives are livid in the interests are thankful. And here's the problem. The centrists and the democratic party and they're not really centrist. I use that term. It's kind of an accurate term. But they're liberal. They're not progressive. How 'bout we do that. The liberals as opposed to the progressives the progressives are the real commie socialists and liberals are just your ear your standard average democrats the liberals are upset because they actually know they have internalized and processed that if warnock and in Ossoff who are both progressive go into the senate it pushes the senate democrats to the left and they start embracing a bunch of the policies that lost the democrats so many seats in the house and got them failure to pick up any state legislative seats. The progressives are livid with barack obama talking about the defend the police stuff because they know it exposes them but they can't help themselves when we come back. I gotta play this audio off of msnbc. There are no no no. It's the view it's the view. It's a nutty stuff. These people can't help themselves. Hello there in. Is eric erickson here. The full number is eight. Seven seven nine seven eric. Eight seven seven nine seven three seven four to five so added years ago. I was on a cnn. With an anderson. Cooper interview. With me and michael eric dyson. Who's a professor in washington. Dc and people on the left always get all excited that oh my dyson. He just just whipped up on eric. Eric center supsa i. It was very bizarre. We were there to talk about the iraq war and in dyson turns everything into everything is about race with him. He's a very odd guy. Actually got a a very nice email after it was over a deeply apologetic email from several of the people at cnn's annoyed you. What the hell just happened And was never on with the guy again Even though there was there. I don't think they had him on a lot. Just a weird person. I in his point was really dumb actually. I can't remember what it was at the time. But i was just i was like what. Wait wait a second. We were here to talk about iraq and settling. We're talking about race And this is what he does. Listen listen to this this stuff. This is michael. He was on the view having watched. All of this. How you feel about where we are right now. Yeah that's a great way to set it up You know in the nineties they start talking about sin. dimick's a synergy of pandemics so on the one hand we have the global virus that has besieged the bodies of people all over the world. The doctor just told us about the latest protocol and etiquette to try to get us the safety but we also had the recognition of a ratio pandemic so we had you know covid nineteen and then we had covert sixteen nineteen cova sixteen nineteen and should laugh at that but dear god do you think he woke up in the morning and say covid nineteen and cove and sixteen nineteen. That's gotta get them wait. There's more this when somebody calls the authorities for a person who is mentally unstable. Don't send the cops with batons and tasers send a productive therapist or somebody who's trained to relieve the hurt and pain that they might experience so that they won't be killed so defunding. The police is another way of saying. Let's reassign monies to those elements and those departments in our public safety. Raham that attend to the hurts and pains of people who are most at risk and when we do that then we can respect the fact that we want law and order. We just want when the cops show up. They don't see us automatically as the criminals and began to hurt us and harvest in ways that many white brothers and sisters can scarcely imagine. They're going to double down on the police aren't they wonder what when what jon ossoff thinks about this one. What raphael warnock things about this. They're they're literally going to double down on defunding police. After they saw great wipe out of democrats nationwide over that issue. There good doubled. They're not gonna. They're not gonna be able to help themselves. They're going to white themselves out. It's really actually weird. I mean it's it's genuinely bazaar to watch them double down on this to be mad at barack obama today for saying Defunding the police. What was not a good idea. They're they're really upset about it and for him to come on and say by the way. Have you noticed in california for example. They've internalized this criticism now in california. They're sending the police. The swat teams to shutdown thanksgiving parties people's houses and they're sitting the the social workers to take care of the hostage situation at the local mall. They send the the the social worker out there to try to calm down the guy holding a gun at people and they're sitting people with guns to point them at families gathered the whole situation. The world is upside down. This stuff in california's nuts so turns out now. The mayor of san francisco went to the french laundry restaurant to the next night. So you have the governor and the head of public health in california roadway thomas. Keller birthday party. The french laundry after telling people they're not allowed to gather for thanksgiving. They did this and then the next night. The mayor of san francisco who has been aggressively enforcing orders. Keeping crowds away from each other showed up at the restaurant herself. You shut down all these restaurants in the do it. You've got the the la county supervisor. Who went to santa monica to eat outside after voting to shut down outside dining in los angeles now beverly hills by the way beverly hill. I'm sorry weezer in my head. A beverly hills has decided to create a city health department to overrule the county. Health department. Ordered to shutdown outside dining beverly hills beverly hills by did you. Donald trump actually did surprisingly well in beverly hills nine. Oh two one oh that zip code. Donald trump actually improved his standing from four years ago. Turns out there some people just wanna make money and they know he'll help him. Donald trump improved his standing in beverly hills and now the beverly hills city council is thinking of creating their own health department so that they can overrule the county order to shut down outside dining. There's this restaurant of every hills is called. The ivy is a super famous restaurant. I was there Back in january. I was there and Bowed erik sit right next to me and then some some soap opera star was on the other side of me all all the hollywood celebrities. Go to this place in its outdoor dining. The weather's always gorgeous and their shutdown. Because you're not allowed to eat outside even though everybody's distance socially distance and all that you can't eat outside in beverly hills even though the science says yes you can. The local bureaucrats say no. You can't The the republicans are having a resurgence in california because of the stuff And they're gonna keep resurging because of the idiot bureaucrats out there good. Hello it is here in here the phone number if you would like to be a part of the program is what is it Eight seven seven nine seven eric. Eight seven seven nine seven three seven four to five. If you would like to be a part of the program. I'm i'm going to be somewhat repetitive. Here i'm i'm gonna i'm gonna essentially repeat myself from yesterday at a different time. Now let me bridge this somewhat. Because there's other stuff i want to talk about. I'm trying to be very deliberate here. And i'm trying to make a commitment to myself to do this every day. Lear in the midst of a politically chaotic season. Here in georgia. I actually have all sorts of new ads on on the program. A political ads from super pacs. We're not taking candidate ads on the program. It it puts our local affiliates in awkward situations if we were to take ads strictly for the candidates so we're not But from super pacs and others to remind you to vote and stuff like that. Where we're we're doing. It helps us helps helps get the word out for the candidates We get to say no to The democrats here on oh. I don't want to run the democrats ads But i i'm trying in all of the chaos of the election and The bereavement over the last election and and all the other focus to try to at least get people to remember that we are actually in the christmas season now the the advent season and so i just i want to point out a little bit of what i pointed out yesterday. You know my wife nearly threw me out of the hospital when our second child was born. Because i fell asleep. Well that's not exactly true. So i started the morning Sh started the morning with Trying to download the dark knight. Dr knight had come out to the greatest. Christopher nolan movie. Ever the greatest in the batman. Trilogy the dark knight. The one with The joker and batman and it had come out on. I tunes that morning and i was trying to use the hotel wifi to download it so i could watch in the hospital while we were there waiting and i fell asleep on the couch and people were coming in actually wondering what the chaos was in the room because i mean they didn't know what the sound was. I snore bad in fact for the last week or so So i've got sleep after having all those clots in my lungs. I gotta sleep with a a c. Pap machine Just to make sure. I keep airflow into my lungs and i got sleep apnea. It's not actually a weight thing for me I assumed was indeed one of those awful awful awful weight loss routines Which may be actually again but nonetheless she'll matter snort terribly and then after all my lungs stuff now not Do it so I didn't have it i snored. My wife was ready to kill me but She got her dural. We went into the livery room. She was ready Through all the contractions. The water had broken That they had to induce labor the secondhand the first time they didn't with our first child. But you're there you've got to steer old delivery room you got the doctor you got the nurses and i just i was there for both of them and i'm sorry it makes me squeamish every time i'm not i don't like blood in here comes. This child just covered in just slimy move and then the placenta i did. I know i had no idea which disgusting the whole thing is disgusting. It's just it's just gross. And yet here you have this child. They cleaned the child up and and the child's all covered in slimy goop. And they clean your child and then you have new baby smell two thousand years ago. A woman with through this process and there was no sterile delivery room. There were no doctors. There were no nurses and the child to the extent had new child smell. It was a barnyard in a manger surrounded by animals and waste and manure and no room at the end and it was the the the creator of the entire universe pushed out through the birth canal. Avai of a woman who he himself had raised from the dust of the earth and stitch together in her mother's womb and then he went into that room was pushed out into the world Grew up as a full human child. Cry night you know the the whole way in the major note. No sound did he make. It's a heresy. Yes he made a sound. He was a baby he was crying. He was fully human. I've actually got a friend of mine. He's a professor from seminary. Who won't his congregation single way in the major because that line infuriates him. He says it's a heresy Jesus was fully god and fully man because he was fully man. He cried like a baby because he was a baby but he here he comes into the world and he he grows up. He is tortured he is crucified. He is dead he is buried and he did it all for you to make straight the palace to right. The wrongs to make all things new. He conquered death and he's coming back by the way he is coming back in. I know somebody who are listening right now. This is not sermon. Time is not intended to be some of you think this is. This is all a bunch of bs a bunch of hooey imaginary sky. God one day your knee will bow to and so i. I've been very deliberate in trying to talk about this every day on radio since we got back from thanksgiving with the advent vinci's to try to at least get people who are furious about something that they're worried they're upset. They're struggling E- it is a time of year where people get depressed. People are separated from their families. They're quarantined and i gotta tell you. There are things that matter way more than the election. There are way more important things in life than the election. This is one of them and one of the things that that always amazes me. Is how the creator of the universe systematically smashes all of our idols the preacher. Tim keller has a saying that you know what you worship by where you put your money. And i mentioned that one time in a guy reached out to me on this radio program very saying well this is all a bunch of bs. Because all i do is. I pay my power bill. I paid my water bill. I buy my food. I pay my car note. I pay my rent and there's nothing leftover i said. Well then i guess you're worshiping yourself. If all the money you spend on yourself well then that around now. It sounded a little cruel to say. This guy was essentially arguing. He barely makes ends meet. He didn't have time to throw it on other stuff that he doesn't believe in god. You're you're worshiping yourself. Where where you put your money tends to. It's not money that you worship. It's where you put your money that you worship and that that was killers point god has a way of smashing those idols I am getting emails. And i'm not making this up. I wish i were because it breaks my heart when i get these emails. Got one of from a guy. This morning he is convinced by faith in. It is a faith thing. Let's not dance around that. He is convinced by faith then. On december fourteenth electoral college will vote for donald trump and on january twentieth. Donald trump will get a second term. Be sworn in for a second term. He's convinced by faith. God is going to work this miracle. God is going to do this. And i finally. I'm fed up with the idea. Literally get this email from people daily. I get private messages on on facebook and instagram telling me my faith is weak That god will prevail and that donald trump will get a second term. And i'm just. I'm kind of fed up at this point. Lake know god is going to smash idols. Because this is idolatry. This is idle worship to to expect that god will perform a miracle not to lead people to faith but to preserve your political preference. That's idolatry and he's gonna smash your idols. Two thousand years ago. And i will wrap this up two thousand years ago. The creator of all things created a woman in created in that women womb raised her from the dust of the earth institute her mother's womb Inter mother's womb and in dwelled by the holy spirit the child the creator descended into the form of a man humbled himself as the catechist would say pushed out through that birth canal covered in goop and slimane grew up and save the world all because he wants relationship with you and he wants to smash your idols so that you put your trust in him and not in politicians you put your trust in him and not another things. He wants that relationship with you so bad he wants to make right. The wrongs dry the tears heal the wounded. Save the lost any matter so much more than anything going on right now in the world and i am privileged to be able to use this microphone in this show in this outlet in this forum against the advice of so many people who tell me. I've gotta stop talking about this stuff. If i ever want to next i i gotta shut up about it and i just. I'm not because one day. Every knee will bow including yours. He has a plan. You're part of it. The election outcome was part of it. Every part of your life is part of it in some small or large way that you don't understand and all of these things work for the good of those called according to his purpose including you so you should put your trust. They're not here is you. Put your trust in him. Not any of them or those things where you're putting your trust right. Now he's got this and that's what the season is about. He's got this. He's got a master plan of which you only glimpse and if i can spend a moment more than a few moments longer than i wanted for the segment on radio every day this month in the run-up to christmas reminding you. We are in the christmas season and we celebrate that not as aa santa claus and christmas tree holiday. But as the coming of the living lord. Then i i get to do that. And if i get thrown off your radio station that you listen to me on because of it. Well that's fine with me. God's got a plan but you need internalize that and understand that That that some of you are aggrieved and angry. And i get the hate mails and you're convinced that a miracle is going to save you from the democrats. Miracles were never used to save you from other people. Every single one of the apostle save john was killed in some cruel way. The very first martyr of the church was a deacon in the church name steven and he was stoned to death for preaching the gospel. Miracles didn't save them. The not going to save you from your political opponents. They're designed to draw you to the kingdom of god and if anything the miracle is that after several years of people internalizing that one. Political party is god's party and one is not got a shattering those idols and forcing you to stop looking to politics and politicians for your salvation and looked him. He's coming again. And this time we remember the first coming and we should be focused on that as best we can. It is era curious in here the phone number. If you would've the program is eight. Seven seven nine seven eric. Eight seven seven nine seven. Three seven four to five The national republican senatorial committee has set up a website for here george with runoff. It is g a battleground dot com. Now pay attention here. This is important if you go to georgia battleground dot com. That's the democrats site for off in warnock knock if you go to g a battleground dot com. That's the republican site for leffler and purdue so georgia battleground dot com for the democrats g battleground dot com for the republicans All the coordination going on here Y- the republicans. This is so funny to me. The republicans are nervous about the president. Coming down on saturday and is he gonna make it all about himself and the election being stolen or is he going to help them. Concurrently democrats are really really really really nervous about the defunding police stuff all of a sudden So i i mentioned this earlier. Barack obama came out gave an interview. I can't remember who it was but it was yesterday and he said Catchy little slogans like de-fund. The police cost the democrats well. Ilhan omar is already out attacking barack obama attacking barack obama for daring to say the truth. Were worn off on this stuff. Because you know we're not going to already said a bunch of bad things about the police in the past This issue is going to come back to bite them now. The democrats for their part. They are fixated on Leffler and purdue in their investments. In fact i saw. There's gonna be another five million dollar ad by from the democrats attacking purdue an leffler for insider trading. Now keep in mind that The the federal government dismissed the chart. They investigated and they said nope. There's no there. There particularly david purdue there is no there there with david purdue david purdue did not try to enrich himself. David purdue did not I try to take advantage of the system. And yet ossoff keeps claiming he did it clearly starting to have an impact though because the purdue team has felt the need to respond to it with an ad. But it's actually a really good ad. This is the dave purdue. And i approve this message. Jon ossoff believes if you repeat a lie enough people might believe it but ossoff stock train attacks on david. Purdue are totally false. David purdue was seen at that senate briefing purdue was cleared by the bipartisan senate ethics committee the se and doj. Purdue was totally exonerated. Jon ossoff you just can't believe him. I mean you really can't If john also has lived her moving he's probably lion You you can't believe him. Yesterday he put up a picture on twitter. I i got hate mail from georgia democrats. Because he said it's not a moment it's a movement and i reply to it and said yes a bowel and they did not like that also produce concurrent to the the off attack has another ad then we change america win these races in georgia. So that we don't have to negotiate no negotiation. Think about that chuck schumer. Nancy pelosi and jon ossoff want total control. They win georgia. They'll have it. What does that mean for you. Illegal immigrants voting police defunding taxes. Sky high are proud military. Gut it your private health insurance taken away. Small business out of business. The supreme court packed is any of that. Really what you want. It's easy to say that will never happen in america. That's exactly what they told us they will do. We're the only ones left who can stop them. We win georgia. We save america. I'm david purdue. And i approve this message. That's the purdue i mean. Listen this this gives him an opening. And now there's a new opening that is going to fly under the radar except with all the right people who need it to rally. Here's chuck schumer. Yesterday on capitol hill. On his first day of office he will game transgender students. Access to sports bathrooms and locker rooms in accordance with their gender identity. And all federally funded schools. Do you think he has the ability to do this. And do you agree with this decision. I agree with the decision. And i know he'll check things out thoroughly legally yup. So they're they're coming for your daughter's bathrooms again. This is one of those issues. Frankly that actually did get trump in two thousand sixteen The this culture war movement from the left on transgenderism really legitimately Led to people who otherwise would have voted democrat voting for donald trump. That they're rushing. This can't really help themselves. They are captured by the progressives at this point they are genuinely captured by the progressive. This point and this is why. Joe biden privately. I suspect really doesn't want us off in warnock to win. I actually believe that biden understands that if often wore knock win and the democrats take the senate that he is so captured in the end in his entire agenda is captured by the left and he won't be able to stand up till he won't be able to tell his own side no no he understands that his agenda won't go far but remember joe by the whole reason joe biden ran according to him was just to stop. Donald trump wasn't to get anything done. The man's been there for fifty years. He's got nothing to do. He's got nothing he wants to get done. He's been there for fifty years ever did it or he's already done. It has nothing left. He just wanted to stop trump. The progressives however want to radically transform american way that joe biden doesn't actually light and when you look at joe biden's picks for his cabinet. They're actually making the left more mad than the right. Suffer neuropathy which we'll get into when we come back she's making everybody man looks like she's going to be the sacrificial lamb for joe biden To throw under the bus to placate the left and the right at the same time but he can't win with the democrats right now and he knows if they get the senate is going to be bad for them who's going to be bad for donald trump if it gets into though because they all do agree to wipe out his agenda which is what they'll do. Hello and welcome eric. Erickson here the eric erickson show across this here state of georgia and beyond listen. I n is my goal. My whole my plan after this runoff is over. We're going to start stretching our legs a little bit moving beyond the state. And and i'm looking at the the number so you can go to ericsson show dot com and you can livestream. The show and eat is absurd. The number of people who listen to this program who are not in the state of georgia and i appreciate you. All it is a very georgia's centric show right now because the runoff and all in the election. And and we'll see. But i wanna start with if you listen to this program regular you know. I don't typically start with calls. But i'm i'm starting with calls here and you can call it if you want eight seven seven nine seven eric. Eight seven seven nine seven three seven four five. And i'm doing it because i was going to talk about this topic anyway. Tony wants to talk about the topic. So tony in rolm. Welcome to the program. Thanks what you're talking about have worn. I don't thanks you beside there. But how can you say man. A god and preach it. Yeah he don't. He support abortion. Yes he does in fact he calls himself a a pro choice. Pasture thinks it's biblical. But how can he support abortion if. He's a pretty good if i understand it right. Jesus didn't say abortion. But he was talking about. You're a lot of trouble. If you harm a child if abortion or hamas how was to do look i i agree with you and it is. There are people who call themselves christian and they do this sort of stuff. And i think that it is. It's it's not actually biblical. And now i realized that christians can be centers but i also realize that what actually happens a lot of times. People call themselves christian and they don't really believe and they they're they're not That they're not really now Speaking of that tony This this gets me to let. Let's dive in real quick here and understand here. Let me just let let me. I want to talk about this. Mortar thing because the media is manufacturing a controversy over doug collins to get there. Let's start with matthew to now. Jesus was born in bethlehem. Judy in the days of herod the king behold the wise men from the east came to jerusalem saying where is he. Who's been born. King of the jews for we saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him when herod the king heard this he was troubled and all jerusalem with them an assembly and all the chief priest of all the people. He inquired of them where the christ was to be born. They told him in bethlehem of judea for it's written by the prophet and you'll bethlehem land of judah and by no means least among the ruler of judah. Four from you shall come a ruler. Who will shepherd my people israel than herod summoned. The wise men secretly ascertained from them. What time the star had appeared and he sent them to bethlehem saying go and search diligently for the child when you found him. Bring me word that. I too may come and worship him. And after listening to the king they went underway and behold the star that they had seen rose went before them until it came to the rest over the place where the child was. When they saw the star they rejoiced exceedingly with great joy and going into the house. They saw the child with mary's mother and they fell down and worshiped him. Then opening the treasures the opened his gifts. Gold frankencense and moore and being warned in a dream not to return to herod. They departed to their own land by another way. Now when they departed beholden angel appeared to joseph in a dream and said rise. Take the child his mother of lead egypt and remained there until i tell you for it is about the search for the child to destroy him and he rose and took the child and his mother by night and departed egypt and remained there until the death of herod. This was to fulfill what the lord had spoken profit out of egypt. I called my son than herod. When he saw he'd been tricked by the wiseman became furious. And he hit and killed all the male children in bethlehem in all of that region who were two years old or under according to the time that he had ascertained from the wise men. Now this mirrors the exodus story the pharaoh killing all of the Israelite children When finding that moses their their redeemer who would bring the first exodus Had come and then moseley's them out of egypt woke christ than comes up out of egypt to lead us out of the real exodus of this world into the next to be a pro-abortion pastor is to not be a pastor of the word of god but of something else something worldly. Now i'm gonna make a statement here. Let's go get some people mad. Do you know why the hollywood left the progressives the gay rights activist in the like they always target conservative. Christians go after muslims win. Win in islam They believe very much the same stuff on on the things of the world. Hate the things of god. And so target. The things of god things of the world leave alone things of the world until they have disposed of the things of god and so christians and orthodox conservative jews are attacked by the left not muslims. You do not hear the stories of mosques being shut down In the age of covid you hear about the governor of new york shutting down synagogues and churches the things of the world. He the things of that's not to say that there aren't mosques being shut down. In fact they are. You don't hear about it in the media. They don't make a big deal about it. The things of the world he the things of god things of the world will leave the other things of the world alone until they deal with the things of god. The reason the left will champion. A pastor like reverend raphael warnock is because the things of the world will champion the things of the world against the things of god. If you're a pastor. I am not going to dance around this and this will offend you and if you're a progressive and you come in because oh he's speaking truth about the election. He must be one of us I assure you. I am a conservative evangelical christian who believes the bible is the word of god. And when you have a pastor who stands in the pulpit and tells people that you can support abortion you can kill a child that pasture will be separated with the goat's on the last day. There is no dancing around this issue. It is definitive. You can be a christian and support abortion because you are a center and one day you will repair or you will be held to account for your embrace of that sin. But if you're a pastor in the pulpit. Do you know why i went to souvenir. I went to seminary in large part. Because i started getting asked to preach on sundays By small churches. Whose preachers were missing. Who are leaving. we're taking vacation. And and i would do it for free if and i said no because i know what the bible says about pastures you're held to a higher standard and so i went to seminary to actually better educate myself so i wouldn't lead people astray if you're a pastor in a church and you're saying that you can support the killing of kids. You may worship something. But it's not the jesus christ. The viable doug collins is in hot water for sane calling yourself a pro choice. Pastor is a lie from the pit of hell at an to go back deputies or baptist church and the media is like ooh you criticize deputies or baptist church the things of the world will protect things of the world and ebeneezer baptist. Church is were raphael war not preaches and it just so happens to be where martin luther king junior preached and so. Apparently you're not allowed to criticize the pastor of ebeneezer baptist. Church for being a heretic. Who uses jesus name to peddle the things of the world because he preach where martin luther king junior preach. I'm sorry but that's idol worship and doug collins was right in doug collins shouldn't be attacked for saying what he said because the things of the world will attack the things of god and doug collins a christian minister who actually believes the word of god has every right to call out anyone who in jesus's name supports the killing of kids when it was herod who is out pouring blood in the street from children looking for the child. Jesus here in this advent season for the media to be outraged at doug collins for calling it like it is for telling it like it is is actually a damning indictment on the media. The fact of the matter is if you're a pastor and you're in the pulpit in your say in sin is not sin. You're going to hell more likely than not unless you repent. Albert schweitzer is one of the most famous people to have ever lived on planet. earth schweitzer. I think he got the nobel peace prize. There used to be jokes now. This is before. I was born in the fifties and sixties Some tv show one of the line was who do you think i am our twitter. Everybody knew while twice your was Famous person turn-of-the-century. Twice your german decided. Our schweitzer's was christians. Christian year. coach albert schweitzer decided. He was going to write a book on the jesus who was elber twice your did a deep dive. They reeled academic deep dive. I mean the man was that the lojane the man was a medical doctor. The man was a scientist. The man was a diplomat. Did everything hours white. You're really was probably one of the most famous smarter. People who ever walked the planet and he did a deep dive on all of the german academic theologians a german theologian. You go to seminary german theologian. It tends to be code for atheist. With the of martin luther ger- german theologian tends to be all all of the the great Skepticism of the bible biblical criticism comes out of german theologians. None of whom are real christians and all of them. Over the years the they write about jesus in so schweitzer examined all of these major german theologians who are looking at jesus and he wrote that every single one of them when they're trying to find who the real jesus was essentially describe themselves for one. Jesus was really a philosopher for another. Jesus was really a family man for another. Jesus was really a carrying charitable worker and on and on all of them rejecting the deity of an and just the jesus who you worship is the jesus who look just like the theologian who is studying jesus and then sweitzer with no sense of humility a great deal of irony essentially decides to right who the real jesus and describes albert schweitzer falls into the exact trap that all he was eight. All these other people did completely rejects the deity of jesus more or less and that's what liberal theologians tend to do when when christ talks about separating the sheep from the goats he's getting it this the these people who who preached in his day. But it wasn't really his name. It was their own name They conjured jesus of their mind. And you're not allowed to talk about this. this is this is bad of me. Trump. who am i to judge how. How dare you judge these people. I'm not judging. I'm just telling you the truth telling you the truth is not judging by the way Judge not lest you be judged when the most misunderstood sections of the bible always by progressives by the way. It's just the truth to point out to you that people can say they worship jesus in they worship the one they created in their head not the real one in for the media to be upset with doug collins for coming out and saying. You can't be a christian pastor in the pulpit advocate for abortion. That's a statement of fact and you can disagree. But i don't really care about your disagreement. This isn't a i read. The bible is where i know. There's only one way to read it. You know one of the reasons for the persecution of the early christian church of the roman empire was because they were opposed to abortion. Now how did the romans abort kids. They took him to the abory. The roman trashed up. Where do you think we get the word abortion from the romans would leave the children at the trash dump and the early christians would go rescue them and raise them as their own and it was cause for persecution because they were taking the roman property the romans wanted discarded and essentially recycling and accept it was human beings and the romans were livid with christians for saving the kids. They wanted to kill so one of the original reasons for persecuting. The early christians was because they were to were against abortion. The a pro-life christianity is a biblical christianity. And for you. To stand in the pulpit. And so you can be a pro-choice pastor is anathema to the bible. It is a heresy. It it defies all of the history of the church in. You may be mad at me for pointing that out. But it's true you may be mad at doug collins for pointed it out but collins told the truth and now the media they're eagles criticized surpass baptist church. You can't do that. I'm sorry if there's a church other that's peddling heresy. Yeah you should. If you're a christian you should be willing to call it out episcopalians. You should be willing to call it out. Doug collins did in. The media is attacking doug collins for daring to pointed out good for college for telling the truth but again bring this full circle the things of the world the things of god and they will rally to defend the other things of the world against the things of god until the things of are dispatched and then they'll turn on each other you. Isn't it remarkable. You haven't heard a single story about a single mayor or governor shutting down a mosque. It's always the churches in the synagogues that they target the things of the world. Hate the things of god. So y'all one of the the the stocks that i wish i had bought that i never bought was amazon like over three thousand dollars now in me and i remember when i was struggling and i guess i i was in college when it went public and man had i held onto it never bought into it at all But now they're beginning their competition with the postal service. Ups and fedex there. They got their own planes now. They've got their own Trucks they got their own vans. They got their own delivery system. A driver of an amazon prime van apparently overwhelmed by the busy gift. Giving season pulled a shocking grinch. Like move monday afternoon and abandoned more than a dozen packages in the majestic oaks neighborhood in savannah. Fortunately the dastardly deed was witnessed by a woman who took to social media to help get the boxes to the rightful owners. It was somewhat of a christmas miracle that within about thirty minutes. The woman's facebook post we share more than one hundred times and all but four packages were picked up by either the people to whom they were addressed or by family infringed members. The remaining boxes were rescued by amazon employees who returned them to the warehouse. Redistribution i simply. Harvard harness the goodness of people through social media modestly. Explain rachel greiner who is a chaplain. It's advantage memorial health university medical center. There was a group effort. This does not reflect the high standards. We have for our delivery associates. According to amazon we take the matter seriously and these individual is no longer delivering packages on behalf of amazon where we're working with the impacted customers to make a to more than one hundred people commented on the facebook post. It was late monday afternoon. She was walking. Her neighbors She and a dog walking neighbor saul the driver. Dumping the boxes out in a vacant lot across the street from the lady's house and then took off my goodness gracious Social media actually did something good here good for them good for the neighbors good for the people on social media rallying it just amazing that a driver would do this. I gotta tell you guys. I'm dealing with my and i got a friend of mine in virginia. Who has the exact same thing happened to him on the exact same day. I don't know what what's going on. So i had to send my daughters laptop off to apple to get the keyboard fixed and the screen fixing they sit back. They overnight it. It was supposed to show up on wednesday at our house and oddly enough so we've got a. We've got a camera on our front door. You literally could see the ups driver. Put a label on the door saying that she had been here and no one was home and deliver to the ups store the next business day which was friday. 'cause thursday was thanksgiving. Chevra actually knocked. That's the hilarious thing. We got a doorbell. it never rang. She never pushed it. She never actually knocked on door. She just left the sticker on the door crazy so then on friday. We're home all day. The maybe they'll delivered here in about four forty one pm. I get a push alert from my ups app that the package has been delivered. Like i'm standing on my front porch. No it's not and it says that the the The person was the identity was verified. You had to sign for the package. I did not signed rebecca's it is literally four forty one. I'm on my front porch. I get the push alert that it has pack that it's delivered. It's not liberal. But he maybe is going to ups store like like the little note said so over. The ups store said note. We don't have package for you. So i go back to the store at six forty five. They close at seven at six forty five pm. They're like nope sorry. We don't have package here. Nobody a ups knows where this package is. Nobody knows about my kids computer. My kids laptop. Nobody has any idea where. This laptop is now And a buddy of mine in virginia had the same thing happened with a computer repair and he's struggling. He called i. I don't even have a phone number to call for mine. I did everything online and is like a. We're where's where's my laptop. I the you know. So i listen. I actually love our ups. We have a regular ups guy who shows up and he is the nicest guy and he's he's been delivering packages to our house for years and then the the guy who's a regular is just fantastic. But this is. I have no idea what happened. This laptop and it's not just me and it's not just him Are like we had the mail people Last week still two weeks ago. The the the post office came through the neighborhood and a bunch of us us our neighbors several other people. The neighborhood all had noticed they had packages delivered from the post office. None of the packages were delivered. It took like two days to get back. It's just what is going on with these delivery people out there. I have no idea. I couldn't hear how to push the button. I'm an expert. Don't you know. I'm a professional. Alright alright alright. Alright alright I just a a moment of personal pride here. I got all my christmas lights working last night outside. I have brought in the. Y'all i can i confess you. Y'all can be my confessional. I'm not catholic. But let's do this. Forgive me listeners. For i have sinned. Oh my gosh. My language putting up piece. Christmas license so nobody in the family helps me with this stuff. Do it myself. And i try not to go full clark griswold but like to put up christmas lights when i was a kid. Gosh i must've been nine or ten in a guy down the street from Struck dead of a heart attack. We lived in dubai. I forget the guy i forget. Who wasn't he wasn't really close to my dad but my dad just he was in no mood to put up the christmas decorations in our house and dubai to put up the christmas tree Which he had always done and that was the moment. I decided you know what i'm gonna put up the christmas tree and so i put up the christmas tree and been putting it up ever since and we would go home. I remember there are a couple times. We would go home for christmas. It wasn't very often that we would go home to from dubai louisiana for christmas to put up christmas lay. It did for christmas. Because you're halfway around the world and you're in school so it takes you a full day basically together. Because you don't have the time. You couldn't just fly from dubai louisiana dubai to atlanta and then catch a flight over to baton rouge or where we lived so we would go from dubai to either paris brussels amsterdam or london casually frankfurt and then have to sit around the airport catch another flight to atlanta and then typically we'd have about an hour and a half to catch a flight to baton rouge louisiana at which would about sometimes seven o'clock at night or so and then of course you go back the other way you get that jet lag when you go east is when you get bad jet lag and so we We went home. And i would decorate the lights for my my grandparents and then when we moved back when i was fifteen i would always go over and put up their christmas decorations and i put up christmas decorations. I liked to put up the lights. I love the lights. And so i did it all thirsty. Friday really wins. Because i was off wednesday so wednesday thursday friday and twice. You know we've had all this rain. come through. And i've just taken to unplugging the lights. Well i didn't the lights. I didn't even know that the they're going to rain so on monday. Yesterday was monday monday. I literally. I'm sitting in my home office. Which is off our porch. And i can see all the lights i we got the we got the big juniper bush trees and their lead and i'm allergic to them and i always forget broke out an is. We got the lights along the front porch. We got the lights in the yard. We got the the the giant nutcracker men we got it all. I got the lights over the over. The door i got everything draped in lights and i'm literally on the radio talking about something and all of a sudden i i see flickering the gone. All of my high spent three beep days putting these lights up. It blew out the fuses blew. I spit yesterday in the frigid cold. Today it was fridge yesterday. And i had to go out there and try to figure out which lights the fuses blown out and replace all the fuses. I was i was fit to be. I haven't even got the christmas tree up yet. I spent all the time to the outside stuff having got the christmas tree. I gotta get the christmas tree for the kids. The kids are going to be furious with me. If i don't get the christmas tree up. I just a discombobulated. But it's it's like a a griswold christmas and i i have blown the fuses. I have tripped a circuit breaker. I've done it all. Because the steam and i still i can't figure out which string of lights. It is that when the rain hits it is blowing everything out. I i have. No idea. And i'm i'm deeply frustrated but i will. I will prevail until then. I'm going to have to run outside every time. There's a hint of rain and turn it off because our front porch trip a circuit of report. It also takes out the back. Porch which is worthy refrigerator is the outside refrigerator. And i had a bunch of omaha steaks in my freezer and i had to throw it all away because it was out overnight and you couldn't trust anyway i e yellow care about that. I'm sure i do. I cared deeply friends masks new condoms. Bill boy do. I have some stories for you. I'm how i began the story. Okay let's get real here. Let's just get real. You're in high school or college particularly you're a guy you you you'll get it in your head. You're your friends discover. Well let's just say naked movies and you seem to When people do these things together. I bet they'll look like that. And then you get out into the world and you realize that Swinger parties do exist and you realize and nobody looking like that on tv. You know it's just not a very attractive thing. It's like the furry see y'all don't don't give me to explain the furriest to you. The people who dress up in costumes and they do. God knows what with each other. There's a reason that in the furry costume swinger convention in new orleans. Yup of course it was a new orleans. See their vegas or new orleans. Forty-one attendees have gotten the virus now turns out it was a superspreader event. Naughty events owner. Bob hannaford wrote that november's five day. Naughty in nala nhs revelry this very well known naughty. then solder bob hannaford wrote november's five day naughty. Nal ins revelry a swinger party at first seemed like a safe success. Thanks to a plethora of pandemic precautions we went to extraordinary measures for check in and instituted a touchless process which required temperature checks social distancing in line and sanitation upon check in wrote hannaford of the big easy bash which kicked off november tenth. A five day swinger party. We issued wrist bands and one color to indicate who had antibodies and therefore was not contagious. We issued a second colored those that showed us a very recent negative covid nineteen deaths. The wrist span's even had each person's date of their tests circled hannaford. Even recalled going out to dinner with friends to celebrate the climax of the x. rated extravaganza which turned out to be premature has is the new york post writing the next day the texts started. We had our first positive case. It was a wife who tested positive on monday. Night after our of it her husband tested negative. Both were tested prior to coming to the event over the following days. Dozens of similar. E mails flooded in accumulating to forty one out of the three hundred attendees. Three hundred probably not very attractive. People swing in and out in new orleans. Their forty one of them got cova. Most would consider that a positivity rate of thirteen percent. But that's more to a positivity rate you see. We have no idea how many people got tested after our of it nor if anyone tested positive and didn't tell us there could also be people that are positive but without symptoms so they never got tested one attendee described by hannaford as a good friend was hospitalized in serious conditions but has since released most other afflicted attendees of whom hannaford was where either experienced minor symptoms or a symptomatic. Would i do it all over again. Mused hannaford noting that at the time the event begin new orleans had in place. It's least severe restrict package of restrictions. If i could go back in time i would not produce this of it again. I wouldn't do it again. If i knew then what i know now i would not could not sam i am holy cow. Okay ju just first of all gross can we start with gross and then Maybe he should have had them wear masks. The whole time masks the condom. I just speaking of. Here's your other bizarre story of the day. I'm just gonna read you the headline my apologies if this offense you. I'm just gonna read you the headline. Because i find actually i may have to read part of the story. An anti-gay hungarian politician has resigned after being caught by police. Fleeing a twenty five man orgy through window. The man joe's Sager quit as a member of the european parliament on sunday instead. It was a private party. He and twenty four other naked men were at the gathering included diplomats and drugs. He tried to sneak the ra- window and was caught by police climbing across the gutter to get out of the place one called a disturbance. Now what was the disturbance. Here's the punchline. Here's the punchline. What was the disturbance to people president. What time through. The kuroda virus lockdown they should have gone to new orleans. Y'all i really got nothing. I'm i just looked i. I read the stories. I find the news. I think you know what this is. A story were talking about the anti-gay conservative to no politician was at the gathering of twenty four. Other naked men. he he's. He is a ally of the hungarian. The right wing. Hungarian prime minister viktor. Orban his fidesz party. He's resigned. His position in brussels resigned his position after he was caught leaving The the gathering friday. He admitted to breaching belgians belgium. Strict lockdown rules to attend the par party. The police found twenty five naked men at the gathering including seizure in some diplomats. The belgian newspaper dernier horror or horror reported the newspaper quoted. Well no. I'm not gonna read that live for what the local police said. They found but Yes so he was hanging out in belgium and he was with twenty four other naked dudes and decided to escape through a window. And it's not that the police were there to break up the gathering of of twenty five men hanging out doing drugs and other things. It's that someone complained that there were more than ten people at the party. There were no california politicians. There they were all at the french laundry after everybody may after making everybody else be locked down. Oh my goodness that's that's so. If they had kept it to ten people no one would have complained. It's just there were there. Were twenty five people the poll. What is it with these politicians though on a serious note. I'm trying to be serious on a series note. What is it. The politicians all of the globally. Not just in this country. Who tell you not to do things and then go out and do them like. Remember the guy. in britain. He was painting the night. Mercenaries of covid worked at oxford. He was the researcher of the london. College or whatever was doing the research models telling people they can't go out they gotta stay home. They gotta be sheltered in place and he was sneaking on his wife to go have sex with his mistress and he got caught an adequate and lost his job but he was a bureaucrat. Who could be fired. This guy is a member of the european parliament. He resigned in probably. He didn't really resigned for the lockdown. He resigned because he is a a stridently anti-gay politician who clearly was gay and and so he's resigning for for being exposed in for ways that one but then you got the california in the new york the new jersey and the denver politicians here in this country who none of them have resigned. It least this guy resigned. These politician hypocrites in california and elsewhere. They're not resigning. They're only apologizing for having gotten caught. This guy got caught in quit his job in california in california. They're they're getting clouded their just. Oh i'm so sorry you know. I gave into temptation to i. I shouldn't have done what i did. Your only apologizing. Before he got caught now. I believe if you apologize. We should accept your energy but we should also point out your apologizing. Not because you did something wrong. You got caught doing that wrong thing and needed to apologize for doing it. Had you not gotten caught. You would not have apologized. How many of these other politicians are doing things that they're not apologizing for just because they have yet to get caught. It's no wonder that people no longer trust the politicians. They from the but closing point here for we go to break in california. They keep electing these sorts of people. So i wonder if the californians really have internalized it and they're actually okay with the hypocrisy because they are they they just reelected gavin newsom. Maybe in two years with the next election of republicans made gains in california will realize they actually are. The people actually are fed up with the hypocritical. Democratic politicians shutting down the restaurants shutting down their businesses making people stay home and then breaching all the protocols. They put in place unless voters rebel. We've gotta assume they're okay with this behavior the rest of us. There's no reason for us to move or go to california. Hello there it. Is eric erickson here. The full number is well. There's no reason for you to call at this point in the day. I do want to let you on a on a business note here. The government is the stock market. Right now seems to be doing okay today but it. It's been a little bit flaky of late. And there's no guarantee that a covert stimulus plan is gonna pass because the democrats want to two trillion dollar plan. There's no guarantee your business is going to be able to get any more money from the government to help it. Even as governments are forcing businesses to close and a lot of banks stolen. Help people right now. A lot of banks are telling businesses pre mid sized businesses no and small businesses. Know if your business needs access to capital you need alone need Some creative financing to help you get through these difficult times a lot of banks raton you know. Check out my friends at first liberty building alone over newnan the family's been doing this nineteen ninety-three they know how to work with you. They want to work with you. They've been helping businesses they. This is not for individuals for businesses but their website is i liberty g. a. dot com. I liberty dot com. Is the website. Spend ten minutes with them. See if they can help you get to. Yes when banks have been getting you to know on your business We're talking five hundred thousand dollars more though if if you just need it thousand alone you're probably better off going somewhere else. They would tell you that as well But if you're six figures mid six figures of higher and in you need loans access capital bridge financing. What have you talked to the folks. I talked to the frost family. It is i liberty. Gpa dot com is the website. I liberty dot com. You can find their contact. Invo other website sarma allergies started. Kill me here today. I gotta clean my office at so dusty in here now I i i got a. I wanna move onto near a tendon because this is glorious so near a tendon is the head of the centers for american progress which was started out as a progressive think tank and had a blog called think progress in in the idiots at think progress decided to unionize which kinda destroyed them and she is the head of the americas really hates progressives. She's a clinton night She's like a third way clinton night. She's up the left. Don't get me wrong. She's at the left socially fiscal issues of the left. She's just not like full on communist and so the bernie bros. despise her and joe biden wants to be the head of the office of management and budget. The be my buddy rest. Vote is donald. Trump's ownby director arrested is awesome free market. Small government guy Loves to tell people. No we're not gonna spend money. We'll we'll tendon will still people. Yes we're going to spend money just not on left wing crazy projects and the bernie browser out to get her. But here's the thing. Tendon is a hyper partisan democrat who has trashed republicans in us the center for american progress to assassinate the characters of multiple republican members of the senate including john cornyn and mitch mcconnell and they want nothing to do with either. The media hates her because she worked for hillary clinton and at one point punched to reporter. Because she didn't like his question. Hillary clinton so biden has named this woman the head of oh embi. She's got to be confirmed by the senate and you've got the far left the mainstream right and now the media out to get this woman she's going to become the first sacrificial lamb of the biden administration. It looks like she's not going to get confirmed and she's gonna be dragged through the process and it couldn't happen to a finer person. We all need to pop some popcorn and watch this one.

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Ep #394: Outsourcing The Right Way with John Jonas

The Daily Grind Business Podcast

34:11 min | 1 year ago

Ep #394: Outsourcing The Right Way with John Jonas

"Good morning everybody and welcome back to episode three hundred ninety four here on the daily grind featuring special guest john jonas today we talk about outsourcing but not just how to outsource were to outsource to and what to look for when hiring a virtual virtual worker be sure as always everyone you have a pen piece of paper sit back and really dive deep in today's interview with john jonas enjoy today's review. The day comes from ashley mcclatchy. I love the concept of the show and the gas tips etc cetera super valuable. Keep up the good work. Thank you so much ashley. If you want to be featured on review the day here all you have to do is go to itunes and drop that review each person that leaves review. I like to do a little something special for so ashley. If you're listening to this just feel free to reach out to me at love to get you a little something some for me either review. Thank you everyone so much for the continued support. Whether you have a business or starting a business you are going going to need a website. I recently have been using wicks to create my brand new site and it's been super easy and looks so professionally done and like i said this is the first site that i've ever created by myself. Whereas in the past i've had to pay someone to build it for me but now i just love how wicks knicks has allowed me to customize it to exactly how i wanted it to look and feel. If you're super creative. You can design it from complete scratch or more like me. You can start with one of their many templates which gives you a solid base to build off of and then from there. Everything's automatically optimize any device ice desktop on mobile honestly. It's been so easy and anything that you don't know how to do when i didn't know how to do their support and videos there to help me to make this even better they've built in s._e._o. C._o._p._d. an expert in s._e._o. To make sure your website gets noticed online and the pay someone copious amounts of dollars to do it now. Of course i'm not just going to rave about this and not share it with you so if you or someone you know wants to create an amazing website all you have to do is go to whigs dot com forward slash podcast. Were you can get started for ten percent off today again. Daily grind listeners. All you have to do is go to wicks dot com forward slash podcast. That's wicks w i x dot com forward slash podcast welcome back to episode three hundred and ninety four. Everyone as i mentioned today we sit down with john. Jonas john has helped thousands of entrepreneurs succeed in their business by doing outsourcing differently he creates and runs online jobs dot ph the largest website for finding filipino virtual workers with over five hundred thousand filipino resumes and over one hundred thousand employers from around the world using it. He works about seventeen hours hours per week choosing to spend his time with his family rather than working today. We're gonna learn how he did all this. There's so much valuable insight it again be sure of a pen piece of paper further. Do please meet john jonas. Will john jonas welcome to the daily grind. How are you today. Hey i'm doing super well. Thanks for having me of course jon. Thank you so much for being here and john for people out there being i introduced you today. If you wouldn't mind speaking a little a bit more as to who you are and what is that you do <hes> so. I am a dad. I have five kids. I'm a husband had a really good family that i love. I am an entrepreneur. I am a disciple of jesus christ. I i i run a. I run a business with like we we have a job boards marketplace for finding virtual workers in the philippines which is like a super interesting niche thing that most people don't think about yeah. What else do you wanna know about me well. How did you get into you'll being an expert and finding virtual workers occurs in the philippines. Talk a little bit about that about your journey as to how you discovered this niche so it was a total accident. I i had tried outsourcing. I mean this is like fifteen years ago. I had tried a whole bunch of things for outsourcing. I was running an online business and you. You know like most people i i'm working like crazy and i just needed help. I knew like there's not enough time in the day to get everything done and i need help and so i had tried aqa. I'd try to hire and contract. Workers tried hiring freelancers. I had tried hiring with lance dot com which is now up work. Okay i had tried hiring people locally to help me so it was just me and finally i stumbled into someone gives me some good advice like try this this might it'd be different for you. I was like whatever to me. Two months i went back and forth someone had told me to hire someone in the philippines. He gave me a reference to where i could hire someone i did. I heard someone fulltime time and it was the single most liberating experience of my life where <hes> anytime i had hired people before it was to do a specific acidic single thing. This guy's job was to do anything i asked him to do. Forty hours a week and so all all of a sudden. I just found myself in a different role in my business for the first time i'm for the first time i i was forced to become the c._e._o. And and give someone else things to do and he would do the things i gave him to do and it's not that simple like i had to teach him how to do stuff. Of course i had to work with and through stuff but after doing that once you know like the very first time you hire someone you first time you get help it. There's always like this worry worry of do. I have enough to keep them busy day. Can you really do good work and and what i found was. Oh my gosh. There's so much more to do that. I had no idea about that within a couple of months of hard someone else and and so from they're like you asked me. How did i become an expert at this. I an expert is is questionable but because i'm sure there are people that do this better than me but i it just people started asking me because they were so it was so good and my business just started flying when it started taking off once i had the right help. The people started asking so as a teaching like here's how i'm doing it. Here's what i did. Here's here's some things that i know here's some things i figured out and then people started wanting me. I i was part of a mastermind group at the time and all of these people in this mastermind group had audiences and they were like dude. You gotta teach my audience this so i started teaching people's audiences and after after about a year i found like i've taught thousands of people how to do this and i probably had six people at that point because i i realize it's like this is so dang good so that's kind of that's kind of my journey towards towards where i am today. That's part of the journey. I guess yeah no doubt. Why do you think thank you found success in outsourcing in the in the philippines. I mean you tried so much. You tried. Locally you tried people. Maybe around your city. About why do you think those didn't work out but the outsourcing in the philippines dead so i had tried people all over the world and specifically india because that's the first i think everybody did in two thousand and four thousand five right yes but i had tried people in the u._k. And australia and locally and and it just didn't it it was all really hard so there's a specific set of cultural differences that exist in the philippines that didn't that doesn't exist anywhere else in the world and it's not like one thing that doesn't exist. There's a combination asian of things that really makes us different story so the the first thing was hired him full time and that that right there makes all the difference in the world when you hire someone hourly you don't care if they're busy or not cinder when you don't care if they're busy like give them a task and and if they finish it you don't care like you get back to answering your dumb emails if you earn full-time and you're paying them a salary all of a sudden you care and if they're not busy then like you you have to take time away from your dumb emails to work on your business and this was the first time i ever worked on my business rather than in my business was i had to give this dude something something to do. And so that right there was a really big deal and you can accomplish that elsewhere in the world so here's what i found with the philippines number one. They're honest honest to the point where my guys have the guys that worked for me in the film credit cards they had access to my personal email <hes> they had access to all of our servers that i give them every aisle and and and that didn't happen overnight it took some time but then i started to realize like a i would trust every one of these people with this stuff. There's not one of them that i've hired. I've twenty six people that work today. There's not one of them that i wouldn't give access to my personal email. You know they don't have access to my pay pal account or that's not true because i don't pay any more but like that's the one thing that i haven't given them access to because then they would know how much each other made gotcha and but other than that like i have given them access to my pay pal account just a different one that i was using the pay them with like they're not gonna steal. They're not going to steal l. Stuff right. They're very loyal and this makes a big difference from the philippines versus the rest of the world. Where like people were you hire someone in the first job offer they get that that makes more money. They're going to jump ship. That's not the case in the philippines. What that means is you. What you're you can afford with this person which like they're caught the cost to hire someone. I'll just give this really quick yep. <hes> twenty six full time people they make between four hundred and fifteen hundred dollars a month for fulltime work unlike the low end. I have like an admin person like your data entry or you're. You're answering. Maybe customer emails on the high end. They have like a high end facebook ads person or really really good programmers or really good designer stuff like that and then everything in between i mean like content writers and social media people and <hes> <hes> data analysts and all kinds of stuff yeah so what would you find is because they're loyal you. Can you can afford to teach them things that you would never never teach someone else. You would never teach an hourly person how to filter your personal email so that your day goes easier so that you're more effective throughout the day right because that hourly person's going to only going to be with you for six or eight months or maybe fifteen months in the pain of teaching something like that is just too high. We're like i can teach someone. He's been with me for fifteen years and he'll be with me until i let him go at that and that's that's like the loyalty thing in the philippines so there's is that is that like culturally with people in the philippines or just loyal people. Sorry say that again. Is that just something that's cultural like with people in the philippines. They're just loyal people to start with. Yes culturally so like and it's almost to a fault of theirs like they get. I'll tell you i'll give you an example one time <music>. I'm one of my guys gets a job in singapore. This is the filipino dream they get a job overseas right. I was petting him five hundred dollars a month. He gets a a job making twenty five hundred dollars a month in singapore and he says sir this dream. It's always been a dream but don't worry. I'll continue to work for you part time at the rate. You're currently paying me like you're going to go. Make five times and you're gonna work for me part time making two hundred fifty dollars a month now wow yes that's that's their loyalty and as as as a startup or a small business owner that loyalty wilty the the the lack of turnover makes all the difference in the world because i suck creating like standard operating procedures you know like i i hate it and i don't want. I don't want to create this thing. That's what prevented me from. Hiring better in the beginning was like off a higher this person after standard operating bring procedure i and that pain this the answer and i never get to write well. I learned i could do it the opposite way i could hire someone and then give them tasks asked and give them a little bit training and when they mess up it's okay it didn't cost me that much in the first place and then second i can now go back and teach it to him again and give him a little bit of feedback and modify it because they're going to work for me for a really long time so it's okay to teach them over time and not have a standard operating procedure so that made a big difference. There's a couple of cultural things that like they speak american english. You'll never have a communication issue. They are are loyal that will they said that they're hard working like a pleasing culture just by nature so they want to make you happy. They want to work and not entrepreneurial like they don't want to steal your business. They don't want to steal your ideas. They don't want to do domain. They don't want to steal whatever it is. They just want a job and so you kind of combine all these things together and it makes a really good situation when you hire someone full-time to where they want to make your business succeed because their job depends on it and if you treat the well and that's a really big key here is if you treat them well. They'll work for you for a long time and the more you teach them the more they know. In the more they'll kind of synthesize other information and the better they get so like that first person i hired still works for me today. Fifteen years later the guy's amazing today i can ask him do anything and he'll get it done. That's incredible. Oh and that yeah it wasn't the case in the beginning but now and i have lots of people like that so yeah it's it's very different so the minute you discovered this and you'll say for your business you step out of the day to day and you turn into more of the c._e._o. You took over that role by doing that. What did you you have to learn stepping into that position because you went from doing everything to now. You have people doing the mundane tasks that need to be done. What did you learn about. Would it really takes to grow a business when he stepped into that role so let me rephrase this because there wasn't a moment there wasn't there wasn't like an instant where i changed. This was a super long gradual process gotcha where like i heard this guy and i got one one thing off of my plate like i. I gave him one task. I was currently doing and he started doing it and and i was able to focus on making sales instead of focus on writing articles or whatever it was right yeah and so that was a a big deal which from that point i remember learning to make sales was a really big deal and i think that's where a lot of the small business owners or entrepreneurs lack is like you have to sell this thing that you're that you're doing <hes> and until you can kind of clear your brain selling it is hard you know <hes> and that that was that was a really big deal for me from there. Some of the other things that i learned were kind of like i always wanted a delegate stuff but how to delegate it like the i needed the technical details of that you know so learning to use a screen capture system made a really big difference prince for me in being able to make the transition like discovering jing at the time were like i could open it up and it would it would record my screen and my voice and and i could talk through a process and then at the end i just clicked a button and it it uploaded it to a server and i just had to send them the u._r._l. Which happened instantly that made a huge difference towards like oh. I can teach you whatever i want and then they could focus on better things once i figured out how to teach better gotcha that makes sense yeah no doubt what do you feel feel like because obviously you speak to other business owners and people like who you are fifteen years ago in that setting. What do you think the biggest hesitations when it comes to people starting starting to inquire about sourcing their work and using people from the philippines were what are the biggest <hes> excuses uses but what are the biggest sticking points for people when they first learned about this yeah so the first thing is i don't have enough. I don't have the time to hire someone <hes> right <hes> which is exactly why you need to hire someone exactly and i mean this is this is this is the cat in the chicken. The egg right is i don't have the time will. That's why you need to do it so here's what i tell people like. This is my best advice for. How are you gonna succeed with this. Go find something that you know how to do that. You're doing in your business that you could teach someone else like find one thing thing that you think you could teach someone else to do and realize okay. I'm working fifty hours. I'm going to spend five hours hiring this a person recruiting and hiring. I'm over fifty five hours this first week the next week. I'm gonna work ten hours. I'm going to work sixty hours the next week just teaching them the next week. I'm amaury fifty five hours the next week to work forty five hours. It's going to take like a month of you doing more work but you're going to teach them to do something. You're currently only doing and get some time back in your life so that's the biggest sticking point is. I don't have time the second the second sticking point is would if i don't will find a good person how do i how do i find a good person and if we can go through that if you want i can go through like my interview process my weeding out process for finding good people. I'm <unk>. I'm about like eighty percent with this so here's here's the the wrong way to do this. Go onto online jobs that ph and and find the one like your oh. I found this guy. He has all the skills i want. I'm going to hire him. You're not gonna hear him. Eh he already has a job and like i said filipinos are really loyal and if he has a job and you contact tim chances of him not responding to you are reasonable. That's just how filipinos role the better way to do this to cast a wide net and either contact twenty people post a job and let them contact you anybody you post a job and they contact you. You know they're looking for work right so they've they've contacted you. <hes> depending on what you're looking for like if you post a job doing data entry you're going to get four hundred applications which obviously is too many for a program. You'll get you know thirty applications which is way more reasonable so you got to do things to like manage the application process so the very first thing i'll tell you to do in your job post include some technical detail that they need to do in their application because a lot of people won't read your your application asian and they'll just send you a form letter which makes me so mad but <hes> so ask them to include like a word in their subject like include include the word <hes> i'm just looking at stuff like dell computer or include the word designer one-two-three in the subject that way any anything any application that doesn't have that in it you can just discard it smart yep right so now you've whittled it down two people that are paying attention so next step. Don't do a skype interview. That's like the first thing everybody wants to do. And why is this in view so in the philippines culturally vague <unk> shyness. They're shy and really what it is. They don't wanna let you down. They don't wanna disappoint you and and they fear that if you get on skype skype interview with you that you may not understand them or got you you're going to be disappointed pointed in their surroundings and their house or they may not have a camera or they may not have a microphone. Yeah no like things like that so if you if you insist on doing a skype interview here's what's going to happen. You'll get ten applications. You'll insist on doing a skype interview. Five of them will be willing to schedule the interview so you just lost five of them who aren't willing to schedule it because they know they're not gonna show up of those five schedule one or two will show up and so you just lost three or four others if you don't need a voice if you don't need voice for this job position you just lost eight potentially really good candidates and got to who are comfortable with skype who may not be the best candidates right up so skip a skype interview. Here's what i do. I do an email interview reprocessing and this isn't the only way to do this but this is my way so i will send now so now you you've had the applications you've started communicating with ten twenty thirty them right so i will send those people emails with with two three four questions in each email and i'll send them five or ten emails out is communicate with them back and forth and back and forth and back and forth and what i find is i get to a whole bunch of really important things in a remote working relationship number one. How long does it take you to respond. If it takes you three days to respond during the interview process us the chances of you taking three days respond after hired you are pretty high and that doesn't work supreme virtual working environment right. I get to see your attention to detail. If you the only answer three or four questions in an email the chances of you only doing three or four tasks that i give you a really high and that doesn't work for me right yep. Ah get to see your personality pretty well when i when we've gone back and forth on a bunch of a bunch of questions i get to see your attention to detail. I get to see your english skills. Like how well do you understand english. How well do you understanding a slang. Do they respond with slang. You know stuff like that. So what i've always found is. It's an i've done this a couple dozen times. I get a really good feeling for who i want to hire. During this process and and usually who i want to hire is right after i've gone through so like i just this last week i i've been going through this interview process. I wanna hire someone to publish a book and this person that's taken three days to respond <hes> two different times. I'm like i'm done. You're done you know like. I don john interviewing you because this isn't gonna work for me. Yep so that's that's my interview process and i always whittle it down to like one or two or three people and in the end if i can't decide between two or three people then i'll give them a task like here's this task i'm. I'm just letting you know. I'm going to do this with three different people. I'm gonna pay you for it. Here's how much i'm gonna pay you. Whether a higher you're not going to pay you. Go do this thing and then. I'll pick the best one that makes so much wh during during that interview process just a pure curiosity. What type of questions are you asking you asking stuff. That's really thought provoking or is it just simple simple things in in in your it's okay so i'll do like you know. Tell me your experience okay. That's that's fine but i'll ask like. Where do you live. Do you live with. Are you married. Do you live with your parents. How many kids do you have sent me a picture of a pink cadillac in this so i'll ask a whole bunch of things that are just to add questions just to see if they enter and i want to see how the answer so like the pink cadillac question you'll get. I'll ask that specific question. Attach a picture of a cadillac to this to your response please. I'll get one of three things one. They ignore it. That's not a good sign to attach a picture pink cadillac great okay you fall instructions three. They question it like why. This is a weird request. Why did you ask me this attach picture pink cadillac like if they do that then i know that they're comfortable standing up for something and saying saying hey hey this is weird. What you're doing here is weird right. I love that. I'll ask also you when they do that. Yes it specifically the philippines culture gotcha. That's a really good sign. Tell me a problem. You've had with this first thing that we've done and how did you solve it. Tell me why i should hire you. Versus these other six people. I don't want to hear your hardworking dependable. Blah blah and i and i'll say that you know give me a good answer. Why <hes> yes. I'll ask probably twenty twenty different questions like that. Some of them are super basics over more detailed some are thought provoking and and that's really how i get the full the full gamut it of responses very interesting for you personally <hes> what are some things you do on a daily basis whether they're they're habits that you have every single day but things that help you stay on task. Get things done throughout the day and ensure that you're taking one step forward award <unk>. This isn't a really fair question because i'm fifteen years into this and some starting out isn't gonna experience but or you can even rewind then go fifteen years ago. Maybe ten years ago where where you're looking to get right at work when i sit in front of me. I only work like fifteen to seventeen hours a week. There's only one the thing i do when i work. That's think i don't ever touch anything. I don't touch a website. I don't touch social media. I don't touch content. I don't touch don't touch anything. The only thing i do is think and tell other people what to do like solve problems uh-huh i think through processes give instructions. That's the only thing i do now. <hes> in the beginning that that wasn't that wasn't the case but that's what i found is the most important thing that's like the piece that a lot of people aren't willing to do like oh if you just tell me step by step what to do here than that i could build my business building. A business works like you gotta be willing to think through hard crap in order to build a business call find people that are like oh. I just want someone to build a website that there's no such thing as build a website like what what kind of website what do you want any website. What's the purpose of your website. What is it gonna addu. How's it going to accomplish. This is one of the things that that click funnels has done so stinking well with us. They narrowed it down to building. It's not a website. It's a funnel trip hunter percent and and so like any process that you have to be willing to think through it and then you don't have to do the work you gotta get someone else to do the work or you can do the work but you've got to be willing to think through it so outside of that. There's some things that keeps me going on a daily basis one exercise almost every single day to i may i'm a religious this person. I feed my spirit every day. I say prayer. I i read scriptures idea listening to every day and i find that if if if i nourish my spirit along with my mind and my body i'm a lot more effective when i'm working <hes>. Let's see the other thing. I've been trying to do recently as <unk> every day. There's always garbage garbage man. There's always email and there's always crap that. People want from you right every day. I'm going to set aside some time and get something productive done in my business and that productive may be like doing podcast interview or that productive maybe writing a sale script writing getting something writing a sales paid may be like improving our frequently asked questions. It may be setting up a process so we better do social media whatever it is under do one thing each day. Hey that builds the business and if the only thing i do today is just crappy email then. I'm not getting very far yeah right either so many people getting that cycle of they think that e mails work yeah garbage. It is at least yeah i think it's i think it's super impactful to how setting that intention of doing one thing. That's going to help you out in your business. Now or in the future is super important. I think so many of us think we need to do fifty things and by doing fifty things we get nothing done yeah right totaling oakland start to finish this is awesome john for people out there who want to connect with you learn more but what you do who want to reach each out and who need to hire somebody in their business and they're looking at this and saying this is exactly what i need. Where's the best place they can go so my website is online jobs dot ph which is it's just a marketplace like it. Just a job board for finding workers like i said you're gonna pose a job. You're going to contact indirectly. We don't mark up people's salaries. We don't we don't take a cut. Whatever so if you want to contact me. That's that's the best way is either use the contact us link you use the contact us. Link up and ask for me. Obviously doesn't come to me at first but if you ask for me they know to send it right to me and i'll respond to you. You could also try me on facebook but i tried not to see facebook because i feel like it's just a time time suck. I don't get on linked in instagram yeah so i'm very careful with my time. That's how that's part of the reason how i worked fifteen to seventeen hours a week of course and run a business so i'll tell you gotta do you gotta get purposeful for what she wants and allocate your time effectively and that's what you've done. Everyone be sure you go to online jobs dot ph if you wanna connect with john directly go to the contact form asks for him. It will funnel through and get back to him now john way. We end the show here on the daily. Grind is we're going to give you the floor and you have the opportunity today today to share with our audience the thought of the day so one thing or one thought that you want the audience to go home with today yeah. This doesn't work for everybody what we talked about like hiring. People in the philby doesn't work for everybody but you don't know until you try like it. It got me my life back and i've seen i've seen thousands sounds of employers of not even employer. Just entrepreneurs really thousands of entrepreneurs get back in their lives by hiring people in the philippines but you have to try it to see if it will work for you because because it doesn't work for everybody but if it does work thing it changes your life absolutely love that and as you can see from this interview everyone success success is driven by passion hunger today being purposeful with your time. Everyone has to overcome obstacles. Everyone has a story start building yours today today. With a chance to speak with the outsourcing king like king john sure do that certain king john jonas john. Thanks so much for taking time out of your schedule coming on the show here with us. Thanks for having me. It's been good. Pleasure is all mine everyone if you today's episode shares scribe to the podcast drops comment comet. Let us know what you like also share this out with a friend until next time caller morgan's signing off and always remember to keep on grinding yeah.

philippines john jonas facebook wicks john Jonas john knicks s._e._o ashley mcclatchy john jonas john business owner singapore singapore skype australia oakland
Democracy Now! 2019-02-13 Wednesday

Democracy Now! Audio

59:02 min | 1 year ago

Democracy Now! 2019-02-13 Wednesday

"The. From Pacific, this is democracy. Now as the crisis and Venezuela continues a mysterious US air charter company based in North Carolina has halted flights to Venezuela after being accused of smuggling arms into the country. The plane had made nearly forty round trip flights between Miami and spots and Venezuela and Colombia since January eleventh the day after Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro was sworn into a second term. We'll speak to a McClatchy reporter who broke the story, then we look at one of the largest public school scandals and US history. It's chronicled in the new book, none of the above the untold story of the land public schools cheating scandal, corporate, greed, and the criminals ation of educators as a teacher. Wong? Fully convicted in the Atlanta public schools cheating scandal. It's clear to me that my story was a part of an even larger story about the intentional destruction of public education in this country. Shawny Robinson was one of eleven former educators in Atlanta, convicted of racketeering and other charges in two thousand fifteen but was she actually guilty. She and her co author journalist and assignment tin. Join us today all that and more coming up. Welcome to democracy now democracy now dot org. The warring piece report, I'm Amy Goodman with two days left before the February fifteenth deadline to avert another government shutdown. President Trump told reporters Tuesday, he's not happy with the proposed deal that came out of congressional negotiations Monday night, but did not say he would reject it. The deal. Currently includes nearly one point four billion dollars to build fifty five miles of new border barriers out of steel far less than the five point seven billion dollars requested by President Trump. Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell said he hoped Trump would sign the deal. Meanwhile, Politico's reporting the White House may redirect federal dollars from various government agencies to make up for the shortfall and Trump's border wall funding demand, including tapping disaster relief funds intended for California and Puerto Rico. Jio Trump would reportedly do so through executive order circumventing congress. It's still unclear whether he will declare a national emergency as the political crisis in Venezuela continues. Tens of thousands of Venezuelans took to the streets Tuesday in dealing pro government and pro opposition protests opposition leader, Guido addressed his supporters and announced a deadline for allowing aid shipments to enter the country. I voted today. We announced that February twenty third is today for humanitarian aid to enter Venice Walea, we stand by all sectors, delivery, drivers, nurses, medics together. Selves organized military officers who enlarge part remain loyal to President Nicolas Maduro have been blocking access to supplies that the Venezuela Colombia border. Critics blasted the US for using aid as a political tool to undermine Medeiros presidency while garnering support for though the Red Cross and the United Nations warned the US to not send aid Venezuela without the approval of the sitting president the UN said, quote humanitarian action needs to be independent of political military or other objectives unquote unmanned day. Why does tweeted a picture of himself surrounded by pill bottles, saying some aid in the form of nutritional supplements made it into Venezuela. Although it's unclear where they came from in an interview with an. Israeli newspaper on Tuesday. Why DOE who declared himself Venezuela's interim president last month said he's in the process of restoring ties with Israel, then as well as severed its relationship with Israel a decade ago under the leadership of China's who instead developed links with Palestinians. Why also suggested he's considering opening the new Venezuelan embassy in Jerusalem following in the footsteps of the United States, which last year international condemnation after it moved its embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, a city that Palestinians want as part of a future state. Meanwhile, President Maduro continues to call out the US for its role in attempting to oust him from power and an interview with the BBC Tuesday Medeiros said the US is ruled by white supremacists. If now. Get political war of the American empire. Tony they instead of the interests the extreme right today. Governs of the Ku Klux Klan that rules over the White House to take over Venezuela and the Philippines. Authorities have arrested award winning journalist muddy at Esa and connection with a cyber liable case Raza is the founder of the independent news site rap ler vocal critic of the Filipino president that charges stem from a story published by rap ller in two thousand twelve in which the paper detailed the alleged criminal ties of businessmen based on intelligence reports. This is Maria recipe speaking during her arrest earlier today, but I know is I have not gotten an official copy of the DOJ indictment. We would have the chance to file a motion for reconsideration. We should the fact that an arrest warrant has been issued. Well, really interesting, and I will follow I. Just shocked that the rule of law has been broken to the point that I can't see it rap ler and Marie arrests have been repeatedly targeted by deter taste government in November authorities indicted wrestling and the site on tax evasion charges which are widely believed to be politically motivated to see our November interview. With Marie arrests. Go to our site democracy now dot org where she came to this country to win a number of journalism awards in Spain trial, kicked off Tuesday for twelve leaders of the Catalan separatist movement over their role and Catalonia's bid for independence in two thousand seventeen the central government crackdown on separatists arresting political leaders and charging them with rebellion following independence referendum in October of two thousand seventeen and the Catalan parliament's declaration of independence, lawyers for the defendants have condemned legal proceeding saying it's unlikely they'll get a fair trial, and that democracy should not have police. Ical prisoners. This is Catalan president Hume Torah. Speaking about the trial. Until we will for an act of vengeance. People who decided to decide against people who defended ballot-boxes against batons people that put their bodies at risk to grant a better future. And it is precisely this that some have not tolerated and claimed for Vange they wanted to punish them that trial came two days after tens of thousands of protesters took to the streets of Madrid Sunday to denounce prime minister Pedro Sanchez's plan to hold talks with Catalan. Politicians? The protest was called by conservative leaders in Spain, including the far right vox party which opposes any moves to negotiate with the pro independence movement in Barcelona thousands marched Tuesday and a pro-independence rally in a show of support for the separatist leaders turkeys issued over eleven hundred arrests warrants to people with suspected ties to exile cleric fetch on Gulan the government blames hen for a failed coup in two thousand sixteen. Since then at least seventy seven thousand people have been arrested and around one hundred thirty thousand fired from government and public sector jobs such as teaching in purged by the Turkish government Doolan lives in the United States. Acting Defense Secretary Patrick Shanahan made a surprise visit to Iraq Tuesday, his first trip to the country. He said the US is committed to Iraqi sovereignty following backlash over Trump's comments earlier this month that he would keep US troops in Iraq to watch Iran following meeting with Shanahan the Iraqi prime minister outta love dmed the reiterated that the US mission. Iraq, must be limited to helping combat terrorism. The Senate has overwhelmingly passed a major new public lands. Bill voting ninety two eight at over million acres of protected wilderness at four new national monuments and expands eight existing national parks of provisions also prevent. Mining and over three hundred seventy thousand acres of land around to national parks, including Montana's Yellowstone, the Bill which now heads to the house for Provea would also permanently reauthorize the federal land and once water conservation fund, which lapsed last year in New York City federal jury, rendered guilty verdict and all ten counts against notorious Mexican drug kingpin, Joaquin El Chapo loose mon- after a three month long trial. The counts include conspiracy to launder drug money international distribution of drugs, the USA firearms and engaging in a criminal enterprise, which carries a mandatory life sentence during the more than two hundred hours of testimony at the federal district court in Brooklyn fifty-six witnesses took to the San with stories of murder violence spying widespread corruption and even one tale of the drug Lert escaping arrest in two thousand fourteen by climbing naked through a sewer alongside a former lover this is US attorney for these. Eastern district of New York. Whicher Donahue conviction is victory for the American people who suffered so long and so much while Ma made billions pouring poison over our southern border. This conviction is a victory for the Mexican people who've lost more than one hundred thousand lies in drug related violence. A new sweeping investigation by the Houston chronicle and the Senate Tonio express-news reveals twenty years of sexual abuse allegations within the southern Baptist church with over seven hundred victims, including many children, some young as three years old three hundred eighty southern Baptist leaders and volunteers have been accused of rape abuse and various forms of sexual misconduct around two hundred twenty of those have been convicted of sex crimes or where given plea deals. The report also found members of the church pressured some women to get abortions after becoming. As a result of assault or threatened to shun them from the church, the church's largest Protestant denomination in the country. The report is prompted calls for investigations into the church and the Roland covering up and enabling the abuse. Eight families are suing the Trump administration for the trauma and inexplicable cruelty of Trump's zero tolerance family separation policy. Lawyers for the family say the policy is left the children with lasting emotional scars and altered behaviors including not being able to sleep repeat the suit is seeking six million dollars in damages for each family. The US government has admitted to separating twenty seven hundred children from their families. But a recent health and human services report suggests there could be thousands more the nonprofit and NCA shin house in Paso, Texas, recently told the guardian they still receive calls every week about new cases of family separations. In health news, the senators centers for disease control has confirmed over one hundred cases of measles in the US since the start of two thousand nineteen in Washington state, where at least fifty five cases where identified so far this year. Governor Jay Inslee declared a public health emergency last month. Lawmakers are considering changes vaccination laws. Measles is highly contagious disease. That kills over one hundred thousand children worldwide each year public health officials say the recent rise in measles cases, in the Pacific northwest is due to laws in Washington, Oregon that allow parents to easily opt out vaccinating their children when quarter of kindergarten students in Clark county, which is at the heart of the recent outbreak did not receive all their recommended vaccinations in the state of New York reports estimate at least two hundred cases of measles since September of last year with the outbreak mostly confined to the orthodox Jewish community, which has particularly low vaccination rates. It's last month the World Health Organization said people who choose not to get themselves or their children vaccinated constitute of global health threat. NBA hook California. The family of rapper Willie McCoy is demanding answers after six police officers shot and kill the twenty year old after they found him sleeping in his car outside a Taco Bell. Officers say they were called to the scene by Taco Bell employees, although he was apparently asleep. When police arrived all six of them shot at McCoy. When he made a sudden move, according to the official statement McCoy who is known by his stage name Willie Bo belong to the rock group f b g. And the black revolutionary activists Honda Abidin has died at the age of sixty eight in Havana, Cuba, Abidin was a founding member of the new African People's Organization an organizer with the Malcolm X grassroots movement after she was charged with helping Sottish occur. Scape from prison in nineteen seventy nine and for her role in the nineteen Eighty-one Brinks armored truck robbery in which officers were killed a to escape to Cuba where she received political asylum. She went on to become known as the godmother of Cuban hip hop and help connect artists through the Havana chapter of the black August hip hop project. A memorial service for ob-gyn will be held Saturday in New York City, and those are some of the headlines, this is democracy now democracy now dot org. The Warren peace report, I mean, Eka Gonzales, welcome to all of our listeners viewers across the country and around the world. Return out to Venezuela, North Carolina based air freight company has halted flights to that country. Following a report by McClatchy linking it to possible armed smuggling last week, then within the thirties claim they and cupboard nineteen assault weapons. One hundred eighteen and you Nisshin cartridges and ninety military grade radio antennas on board a US own plane that had flown from Miami into NCO Venezuela's third largest city. The bowling seven sixty seven is owned by a company called Twenty-one air air based in Greensboro, North Carolina. The plane had made nearly forty round trip flights between Miami and spots in Venezuela and Colombia since January eleventh, which is the day after Venezuelan President Nicolas. Bundle was sworn in to a second term the flights ended after McClatchy first reported on them Venezuela accused the US government of sending the arms as. Part of its attempt to topple the my doodo government Bolivarian national guard general and by or days said this material was destined or criminal groups and terrorist actions in the country financed by the fascist extreme rights and the government of the United States twenty one air has denied knowledge of the arm shipment. Saying that flight had been chartered by another company called GPS air, which also denied sending arms while no definitive links between Twenty-one air, and the US government have been established McClatchy reports that chairman of Twenty-one air Adolfo Merano as well as another employee at the company have ties to Gemini air cargo which was involved in the CIA as rendition programme during the administration of George W Bush in two thousand six Amnesty International identified gemin-, I as a front company that had authorisation to land on US military bases worldwide. The CIA has a long. History of running front companies for covert actions. Most famously the CIA ran a front airline called air America, which operated from nineteen fifty to nineteen seventy six in the eighties. I a front company called southern air transport which used to send arms to the US spec. Huntress and Nicaragua we're joined now by Tim Johnson. Who's been reporting on the story for McClatchy joining us from Pennsylvania, welcome to democracy now. Tim would you lay out what you found? We'll as you mentioned that this irritated company. The Twenty-one air wit repeatedly to places in Venezuela and Colombia starting January eleventh prior to that it had largely operated domestically and suddenly it began to change. It's it's it's it's patterns and often there would be even two flights a day between Miami and places in Colombia or Venezuela. I actually learned about this from somebody who tweeted about it of a gentleman in in a Canada who follows ship in plain movements notice this, and we started looking into the the history of the chairman of Twenty-one air and saw that he has a number of businesses and to those businesses used address in northwest Miami that were previously used by a subsidiary of. Of Gemini air cargo, which as you mentioned of was listed in the Amnesty International report as having participated in in in renditions. Not Tim Johnson seven a seven sixty seven pretty big plane. And there was the cache of weapons that the Venezuelan government claims they found while the click clearly lethal weapons is not a huge shipment. I'm wondering do you have any way of being able to tell what the manifest of this flight as well as the other the thirty nine or so flights that this airline on engaged in what they were claiming to hold. I actually don't know we've tried to to get that. And we haven't been able to get the manifest yet of. So what was aboard the other flights going to South America? We don't know. This is a very puzzling case of if you look on social media dig into the backgrounds of of employees of Twenty-one air in associated companies, you see that there are many accounts of employees who follow the Venezuelan opposition in opposition account. Sit follow them as well. So there's certainly some sympathy of from employees within the company to the opposition to mother in Venezuela. Tack more about the leadership of the company that you investigated based in North Carolina. And explain what you mean when you talk about the links to rendition under President, George W Bush. Well, though full morning. No is seventy five percent owner of Twenty-one air, and he's got many other companies, but he's been involved out of Miami. I I don't know. Well, the company is registered North Carolina. The operations really are out of Miami's far as I can tell that's where many of the flights have been operating. They have a huge operation center at Miami International Airport of. Curious secondary aspect of this story is that the company that consigned the cargo also has ten gentle links to this historical. You know, the Iran contra affair, the head of the of of GPS air is a band named Jose Manuel Calvo, and he liked more has many companies in one of those companies with the partner that he used to create this company. Is a company called heavy lift air in that company has subsidiary out of the UAE that is controlled by Iranian American named for hot Asieme who also had a role in Iran-Contra. So there's all these circumstances things. But there's really no smoking gun that I could tell it it. You know, this may be just circumstantial are you reporting? This new now on around contra what you're saying. Explain for people aren't familiar with the Iran contra scandal this happening under the Reagan Bush years the selling of weapons to Iran to take that money to support the contras in Nicaragua which violated US law the Boland amendment. Yes. So that is scandal involved southern air transport, which is also was a a CIA a front company that really, you know, exploded into the news back in nineteen eighty six because the Sandinistas army shot down a twin engine plane that was run by southern air transport that was taking armaments to the contra rebels fighting in Nicaragua. So southern air transport was actually heavily involved in in all the the arms shipments to Iran and from the Middle East to the to the contra rebels in Kerala. Well, the I I want to ask you about a Eugene hasn't fuss who you mentioned in your article nineteen eighty six he was aboard a US Blaine that was shot down and Nicaragua while on a secret mission to bring arms to the Nicaraguan contras. He was the only passenger survive. I want to turn to a documentary. Made by Wisconsin public television, called the gene how some fos story from nineteen ninety one it featured an excerpt from the station's initial coverage of what happened to him in nineteen Ninety-six. But Wisconsin man has been the focus of international news this week five year old Eugene essence of Marinette was captured in Nicaragua. After his cargo plane was shot down at a press conference. Thursday hasn't said his mission was directed by the CIA. But US officials say the flights were privately directed. Mrs Sally hasn't fuss. Joined her husband in Nicaragua. This week has been jailed and may stand trial the documentary also featured an interview with Jean Hudson. Fossett's wife Sally. The next morning by tried. To call President Reagan. I thought well, it's the only place I'm going to get answers. He's you know, I should be able to trust him. He's the president. And I knew he knew. He put me in touch with the man named Elliot Abrams. He said, I don't know who you are. And I don't know what you're talking about. I got angry and before I hung up. He did admit that he knew what I was talking about. And he kept warning me that, you know, be careful of the press. And and be careful what you say careful what you do. And the interestingly or coincidentally Elliot Abrams is now the special l'envoi of of of the White House to Venezuela your assessment of this affair back. Then the impact it had on what was going on at the time. Terms of the war on the contras. Not sure I can really speak to historical impact. But of course, it, you know, I think it helped lead to go. She aided settlement leading to the of the elections in Nicaragua nineteen ninety because it was, you know, clearly, a major impact on that. But I really couldn't speak further to that that that's how of Eugene Hossan Festus former marine mercenary shot down over Nicaragua. Then held by Nicaragua eventually released and has contact with the US government at the time. And now you raising this issue in your current peace around the arms shipment that was found going into then as Walea not clear exactly if there's a connection to the US government. But clearly the US government is very overtly supporting the attempted overthrow of Maduro. Explicitly and these flights starting day after Medeiros inauguration on January tenth. Well, yes, there's a lot of these coincidental. Links in it's worth paying quite close attention to again. I I use coincidental. Only because we don't we don't really know of you know, other people point out to me that of their many people that could be have a vested interest in this. Whether the arms were really aboard that plane, or is it possible that they this was something that was ginned up by the Venezuelan government to rally support from other little, I don't know. I just we haven't been able to determine for fact that those weapons were loaded aboard that seven sixty seven in Miami that somehow the pass through the you know, the normally rigorous screening by TSA four air cargo. These are things that are just yet to be investigated. And and as has the company answered the in terms of. As you mentioned, they normally were not traveling to Venezuela and Colombia the forty flights what they were actually carrying or or are they saying, they just didn't know. Both in both have been very limited in what they said other than denying that. They knew what the cargo was generally an air charter company would trust to the consignee of the of the freight to handle, you know, any declarations, I believe and for its part GPS air said, well, it was it doesn't know what was in the cargo and finally back to that issue of rendition that you don't know exactly who this company was working for what you do have a record of is the company being involved with the US government during the President George W Bush years being involved with rendition and having clearance to land on any military base in the world. Can you explain what those renditions so-called what some called kidnappings were about? Well, basically the relations were to take suspect to terrorist suspects of following nine eleven four interrogation black site jails scattered around the world there were a number of them in in eastern Europe. I know there was one outside of Chiang Mai Thailand. Elsewhere, and these were used to to you know, forcefully interrogate, you know, waterboard. Even suspects in the war against terror. So these rendition flights were commonly used in the period after nine eleven I want to thank you so much for joining us. Tim Johnson McClatchy reporter who's been covering national security and technology issue since two thousand sixteen. It's a recent article headlined Venezuela says plane from Miami delivered weapons for use by enemies of Madora. Tim Johnson was part of a team that shared a two thousand seventeen Pulitzer prize for. Investigation of the Panama papers earlier in his career. He spent two decades of foreign correspondent in Asia and Latin America will link to your piece at democracy now dot org when we come back. None of the above the untold story of the Atlanta public schools cheating scandal, corporate, greed, and the criminalization of educators. Stay with us. Flos before. Gone. Bush league Cain get the job done. That can y'all see saw. No such thing sneeze. Treetop fly. Treetop fire by Stephen stills. This is democracy now democracy now dot org. The Warren peace report, I mean Goodman with one gun. Silence. What return to the fight for public education as the teachers strike in Denver heads into its third day district and union negotiators worked late into the night Tuesday on a potential agreement, including a base salary of forty five thousand eight hundred year for educators would be twenty five hundred dollar boost from their expected pay for two thousand nineteen twenty school year, but the Denver classroom. Teachers association is still demanding the district rely less on bonuses. And instead focus on financial security for educators. Then vers teachers are striking for the first time in a quarter of a century their walkout calms just weeks after storage six day teachers strike in Los Angeles. And it with victory for educators demanding smaller class sizes and higher wages. The actions are the latest in a wave of teachers strikes that began last year. And Republican controlled states, like West Virginia, Oklahoma, and our Zona the strikes have brought renewed attention to the plight of the American public school system, which teacher say is under attack. We're now joined by a former educator who says the teacher strikes can help shed light. I one of the largest public school scandals and US history. Shawny Robinson is a former first grade teacher in Atlanta, Georgia who was convicted for what prosecutors said was her role in the massive cheating scandal that Royal the school district and drew national attention in two thousand fifteen Robinson was one of eleven former educators, convicted of racketeering and other charges. Prosecutors say teachers were forced to modify incorrect answers and students were even allowed to fix their responses during exams. This is judge Jerry Baxter. Speaking after the verdict was handed down. He ordered most of the educators immediately behind bars and unusual move. Move for first time offenders by plane from early on and they have made this decision, and they have they have they've not fared, well, and I don't like to sit in the jail. It's not one of the things get a kick out of but they have made their bit and they're going to have the lion. And it starts to two of the convicted for education turn themselves in October to begin their prison. Senses nine or sentenced to jail, but rejected sentencing agreements in order to appeal twenty one defendants voided trial with plea deals. The cases fueled criticism -education system's reliance on standardized testing and Lissette calls racist. Because thirty four of the thirty five educators indicted in the scandal where African American shiny Robinson has written a new book on the cheating scandal with journalist assignment it's called. None of the above the. Untold story of the Atlanta public schools cheating scandal corporate greed, and the criminalization of educators in the book. Shana Robinson writes, the dominant narrative that developed about the scandal rarely acknowledged the bigger picture federal policies that encourage school systems to reward and punish educators based on student test scores a growing movement driven by corporate interests to privatize education by demonizing public schools and land speculation correlated to new charter school springing up that was gentrifying black and Brown neighborhoods across the country where joined now in our New York studio by shawnee Robinson who still awaiting an appeal in the case. Also with us an assignment, independent journalist editor for scalawags magazine. Graduate of the Atlanta public schools co author with Johnny Robinson of none of the above. We welcome you both to democracy now. Thank you. So you are appealing these charges. I mean. You sickly were charged under laws to get the mafia. Correct. I was facing twenty five years in prison. I was charged with racketeering and false statements and writings so explain layout. The story go back to two thousand thirteen tell us what happened. So the APS cheating scandal Atlanta, Atlanta, public schools cheating scandal was a period of time in which educators were accused of changing their students answers from wrong to right on standardized tests. And so I was actually a teacher for three years, Illinois public schools and my second year teaching I was a first grade teacher and that later becomes the year in question in two thousand in two thousand nine and as I great teacher. My TISCO actually did not count toward the district targets which were benchmarks imposed by the school board and administration or the federal standards, which was adequate yearly progress. And so in October of two thousand ten I get a phone call from a gbi agent, Georgia Bureau of investigation, and he asked me to come in to strangely a mall parking lot is where I met him. And he tells me that there's been any ratio now. Asus done for the entire state of Georgia twenty percent of the schools over the entire state of Georgia were flagged for high erasures, explain racers. So the erasure analysis was basically looking at how many times a student, right? They students went from wrong to right races their answer right after a certain amount is statistically improbable outside of human intervention. And so the agent told me that in my class specifically there were high levels of wrong to right erasures. And he's asked me can I explain this. And I say, no, I can't explain this. And then he asked me well did any administrators or the principal ever place any pressure on? The to cheat on my students test booklets, and I said, no. And then he pulls out a pre written voluntary statement form, which was basically saying you don't have any knowledge about cheating. You didn't cheat. And he asked me to sign this form. Now, the thing about this form is that later is used against many educators who signed the form they were charged with false statements and writings which is a felony and so teachers were really between a rock and a hard place. Because here you have a gbi agent and mind you there were no attorneys prison. I didn't have an attorney present in when they went into the schools teachers were pulled from their classrooms and interrogated so the really were no attorneys present. And so you have this gbi agent asking you to sign a form. And if you don't sign the form, you didn't really want to become a target, you know, but if you did sign the form, you could potentially become a felon issue. The Cairo investigation was touched off wasn't it by a series in the land. The constitution began questioning the the the percentage of erasures they were uncovering in their investigation. What impacted that series have on the general Alanna community, and obviously touched off the law enforcement officials, right? And there where at that time. I believe there were about. It was over about the about five schools across five districts, and so that prompted the governor to do a statewide investigation. And so in just to even go into as far as like the widespread cheating is concerned over forty states in this country have had evidence of cheating allegations, fourteen of those states. It was considered to be widespread in Washington DC there were one hundred and three schools that were flagged for high suspiciously, high erasers or test scores. So this was actually something that was happening across the country. So we we can't figure out why teachers in Atlanta were slapped with felony charges. Some of my co defendants facing prison sentences of up to forty years, and Anna Simonsen like to ask you of the broader picture now this happens these indictments come down in the middle of the Obama administration, President Obama and Arne Duncan his education secretary, we're very much into performance based measures of of teachers and standardized testing as a as a way as a key way to measure whether students doing a good job. Could you talk about the pressures that were put on educating and not only the educators, but they're supervisors their principals and superintendents during this period of time. Yeah. This was a long running trend beginning in the early nineteen nineties when high stakes testing began to be utilized in school district's like Houston's. But it was really codified in federal law in two thousand one with no child left behind which was signed by. George W Bush, but Obama really continued the policies of no child left behind in in practice. If not in name and one interesting piece, this story is how our governor at the time Sonny Perdue use the same two thousand nine test scores to apply for four hundred million dollar race to the top grants race to the top grant under the Obama administration that for states that could show that they were doing some these -education reforms that the federal government was pushing so expanding charters increasing high stakes testing on that they could get federal funding. And so at the same time that Sonny Perdue sins gbi agents to the schools of Atlanta because he's the two thousand nine CRC test scores are fraudulent he's using the same test scores to say, hey, look, our test scores are going up, and they did win that four hundred million dollar federal grant. And then a why did you get involved with Sean in writing this book, and then the above you to went to Atlanta public schools? Why was this? So interesting to you. I did I had to take these tests, and they were they were Adrain on the actual education that I feel like students should be getting classroom there in my view of time. But more important is that middle school counselor was actually convicted in this case, I like many people watch the convictions handed down not having really follow the trial. It was an eight months trial, the longest criminal trial, excuse me in Georgia history. And so it was hard for people to kinda understand what was happening as it dragged out the win the convictions were handed down. It was like heartbreaking to see someone who I remembered, you know, being this like beacon in my own childhood along with these other teachers, and so when shawny reached out to me, it was just a wonderful opportunity to do something about and try to tell another side of the story. We're going to break and then come back to this discussion or guests are an assignment and independent reporter editor for scalawags. Also, joining us is shiny Robinson. She was the youngest of the teachers convicted in the Atlanta cheating scandal. She is appealing her conviction to teachers just recently went to jail, this is democracy. Now their book is called none of the above. We'll talk more about it in a minute. He. Lead. On. The on. Have no fear by the Filipino musician. Well, Coban gun, then the Philippines thirties have arrested the award winning journalist Maria wrestle in connection with a cyber liable case, she's the founder of the independent news site Rafter and believes many human rights groups that president deter taes going after them to see our full interview with Maria resi you can go to democracy now dot org. This is democracy. Now, I mean, he couldn't with one gun solace. We're continuing our discussion the authors of the brand new book, none of the above the untold story of the Atlanta public schools cheating scandal corporate greed in the criminalization of educators. Journalists and assignment tennis with us as well as co-authors shiny Robinson. Who is the youngest of the thirty five teachers and staff charged in the scandal. One I want to shawnee Robinson about this whole issue. High stakes testing the impacted as had on on teachers not only the land, but across the. Nation as we now know there was a huge parent movement that develops who opt out, and and many states that were huge percentages appears refused to have the kids be tested constantly anymore. But what was the impact on the on educating as authorities and state legislatures insisted on raising these test scores and constantly testing the kids I think it it was devastating because teachers were constantly having to teach toward the test. And you know, that can really stifle your creativity in the classroom. And so, yeah, that's the main thing I look at other countries like Finland who don't have high stakes testing who continue to outshine other countries with academics. So just this push in this over emphasis of high stakes testing, and even how it's led to Recotor hearing charges. You know, I just think that it was blown way out of proportion. I wanna go to go. I just wanted to ask some of the kief figures, for instance, the the Atlanta superintendent of schools was also charged eventually ended up a passing away before she can be brought to trial. Right. Could you talk about the impact on the individuals in this case? And I really did not know you're referring to Dr Beverly hall. I never met her. Pretty much who I was in contact with were our principles. So as far as that aspect, you know, I can't really speak to Beverly hall, but I will say as a first grade teacher, I wouldn't say that I experienced as much pressure as maybe a third eighth grade teacher might have faced because my TISCO did not count. But there was definitely pressure just from the educational policies and the over emphasis of high stakes testing, and let's go to Beverly hall the Atlanta school district's former superintendent among those charge which painted by some as the one who orchestrated the test cheating. You write in your book? Shawny from the moment hole was selected to lead a PS Atlanta public schools in the spring of nineteen ninety nine she was under a microscope. Everyone is watching her wrote the Atlanta Journal constitution from governor Roy Barnes, who's hammering out his statewide school reform effort to corporate leaders, college presidents and Paris. Considering whether to entrust their children to the urban public schools hall faced up to forty five years in prison, but died from breast cancer in two thousand fifteen before going to trial. She maintained her innocence. I then want to go to Dana Evans. Dana Evans is the former principal of Dobbs elementary school was convicted in the test cheating trial. This is Evans on PBS NewsHour in two thousand seventeen responding to Allah Gatien's that educators participated in cheating for financial gain backup. Bonuses, one year out of the four years of that I was a principal, and it was a thousand dollars, and I gave more than the thousand dollars to Dobbs pay for kids uniforms and pay people's rent in their gas bills, and it is offensive that. That. Four thousand dollars. That was Dana Evans you both right in the book. Also about Donald Bullock and educator who accepted a plea deal in two thousand fifteen in order to receive a reduced sentence. He apologized for his role. Do hereby Cecilia apologize to students. Malvo staff members parents and another land of sue system as well as the great metropolitan community for my mob in two thousand nine C ministration resorting, cheating or other dysfunctional acts. You both right in the book that Bulla, quote, endured. The shame of reading an apology after maintaining his innocence for so long only for Baxter to slap him with five years of probation, six months of weekend jail, a five thousand dollar fine and fifteen hundred hours of community service and assignment and tell us what happened with the different people involved from apologies. Plea agreements to enshrines case she's appealing. Yeah. So thirty five educators were originally indicted, many of them took plea agreements and many of those. Folks, their plea agreements required them to testify in this trial. So eleven folks actually went to trial and the trial itself was nonsensical. So there were witnesses who recanted on the stand and said, actually, I just said what I said in order to get this plea agreement, and I never was under the kind of pressure that that I'm now supposed to testify against my former colleagues about so additionally witnesses were contradicting each other to the extent that the judge Jerry Baxter said perjury is being committed here daily and yet he didn't strike those testimonies from the record he didn't allow for mistrial. Everything was very much slanted toward the prosecution six months of prosecution. Witnesses compared to a few weeks of defense witnesses by the time that the convictions were handed down and sentencing happened Jerry Baxter had become emotionally volatile patronizing. And that's where we see him. Him demanding apologies and not only that. But demanding that folks give up their right to appeal, which is really why many of the defendants did not want to apologize. And yet we're pro-trade in the media as we've heard the word provocative as if they were flaunting somehow, their moral obligation. But in fact, they would have had to give up their constitutional right to appeal. So those are just some of the things that made this trial incredibly unfair. And what about the sentences judge Baxter handed out? What kind of a message that send across the country educators everywhere, incredibly chilling message and his emotional volatility to the point where he actually at first sentence the school reform team directors. These are administrators with twenty years in prison, which was excuse me, twenty years to serve a fewer number of years and the rest of probation, but that was beyond with the prosecution was actually asking for. So he was yeah. He was just like slamming down the gavel on educating. Can you talk about the racial disparities in this case thirty four of the thirty five people charged including shawny African American. Yeah. And all of them people of color. No white teachers were charged even though white teachers were implicated in the original Georgia Bureau of investigations report. Another sort of example, is how at the same time that the gbi I was investigating Atlanta public schools. They actually did an equally in-depth investigation into Dougherty county schools. This was one of the districts that was flagged in the states original statewide, look the eraser analysis in Dougherty county had cheating going on on par with Atlanta public schools. According to the gbi, and yet the local district attorney there did not bring any charges and one of the big differences was that there superintendent was white woman, whereas Beverly hall with a black woman who is a rising star in the field of urban education. Has anything changed in Atlanta public schools in terms of student chievements in terms of how tests are administered and in terms of their sense of modernizing and corporatism public education. If anything this has reinforced the kind of corporate education reforms that we feel contributed to the conditions that created the cheating scandal. So the narrative with constructed in a way to say, look how terrible public schools are there with corruption. They're failing weeding charter schools as an alternative we need more data driven education instruction as an alternative that's going to be the answer. And in fact, our governor at the time Nathan deal introduced legislation on the day that the prosecution rested. So the media was full of like recaps of how you know horrible teachers were he introduced legislation to create something called an opportunity school district that was modeled on Louisiana's recovery school district, which would enable the state to take over so called failing schools. Turn them into charters. As a result of amazing grassroots organizing that was actually turned down. But other similar reforms have been put forward to continue those attempts, you both document in the book, the history of the destruction of the black communities of Atlanta because of gentrification poverty, the war on drugs. How does this link to the cheating scandal in a broad sense, it poses the question who is really cheating these children. If we think about cheating in terms of a lack of opportunity and some of the same people who were involved in blowing the so-called cheating scandal out of proportion have contributed to the harm of black communities, historically, so Mike Bowers. Georgia's attorney general for many years later with lead investigator looking into Atlanta public schools as attorney general he was one of the main people pushing for tough on crime laws that vastly expanded mass incarceration in Georgia led to generational trauma. That students are now bringing to school in his nineteen ninety six bid for governor. He. Called children's superpredators black children trying to drum fear in his white voter base. And then few years later. He's on the news one of the most vocal people saying, oh, these poor children have been cheated by teachers and shiny. What about the local elected officials? So Atlanta's always been seen as a progressive city with considerable African American progressive political leaders where with eight when all this was happening. Well, that's a good question at Lanta has always been known as the city too busy to hate. So it's all about image and historically black and white elite have worked together to decrease any racial tension in. So you know, it begs the question, why were so many black teachers educators, charged, you know, as almost in a sense of if you can make situation look like it's more black on black crime. You have you decrease that level of racial tension. But in our book detail, Atlanta's history of displacement, and destruction. And so we feel that. The criminalization of black. Teachers was just the next chapter in that legacy. Shawny talk about what happened to you. How this impacted you you were pregnant at the time I was pregnant during the entire eight month trial, and it was emotionally and mentally training. It was also financially draining. We were in court Monday through Thursday nine to five and just to the most heartening thing to me the way was betrayed in the media. Was that educators cheated on their children's test to get a payout in? So that's why it was this big talk about how we hit cheated the children the lead investigator on the case testified that bonus money provided little incentive to actually cheat. And so my bond was about two hundred thousand dollars, and it was one of the lowest of theirs, whereas two hundred thousand one of the lowest there were others that were in the millions. And so just. The media portrayal of it. It was really making. It seem like we had gotten all of this money my school. We actually did not meet our targets. I've never received one penny of bonus money ever. My test scores did not even count. And I didn't cheat on what grounds are you appealing. Well, the first step in my attorneys have been working diligently on getting the judge to recuse himself during the trial right before the verdict was released. He told the jury whatever your verdict is I will defend it until I die. So based on his own words. We are ready know where he stands on this case, he also had a private conversation with the district attorney, and when that came to light our attorneys acts for emiss- trial, but he denied it. There was a situation where he even tried to assist. One of my one of the state witnesses with identifying one of my co-defendants. There was a woman who was asked to identify one of my co defendants, and so she started walking around the courtroom and the judge called out to her. And said you're getting cold. And so the woman turned around and started walking in the direction, she never recognized my co-defendant and eventually returned to the witness stand. And so it's hard to believe that a judge can be impartial after doing so many things like that. And he retired. And they reassigned our case to another judge. But somehow this same judge just Jerry Baxter has been allowed to continue to preside over our case. In a we began the segment by talking about the Denver strike, and how do you see the story linking into this bigger story of teacher strikes across the country? Think is deeply connected. I think that some of the same conditions that are sparking teachers to take to the streets in protests, and and to the halls of their capital statehouses, these issues of privatization draining resources from the classroom. These are all things that were driving forces of the cheating scandal in in the way that the narrative. Constructed to demonize public schools in order to further the privatization of public schools. I also think that there's you know in the sort of resurgence of this education Justice movement of focus on black educators in particular with things like the black lives matter at school week of action. And so folks are really looking at racial injustice in the education system in a way that I think this case is sort of the pit Amee of the effect on charter schools in the Lanta. The have the have the grown since this. Yeah, there's been each year an increase, although the overall number has not gone gone up a whole lot because there's often that opened close. And so that's part of the problem charters as sort of fly by night situation, twenty seconds. I know you're both presenting none of the above CUNY grad school here in New York tonight at six what message you have for education shawny. Just to stay strong. And I just want people to know that the cheating scandal with a manufactured crisis that scapegoated black educators in distracted everyone from the real problems that are undermining public education. We thank you so much for being with us again their book, none of the above the untold story of the Atlanta public schools cheating scandal corporate greed and the criminalization of educator. Shawn Robinson, the youngest of the teachers convicted in two thousand fifteen she is appealing that conviction and journalists and assignment co-authors of the book, none of the about. I mean, he Goodman Gonzales. Thanks so much for joining.

Atlanta US Venezuela president federal government President Trump Iran Nicaragua shawnee Robinson Jerry Baxter George W Bush US attorney Colombia North Carolina Georgia reporter Miami Spain Tim Johnson McClatchy
A melhor estratgia para vencer  no ter um estratagema fixo

Feliz Dia Novo

03:35 min | Last week

A melhor estratgia para vencer no ter um estratagema fixo

"Sample ball shakeup. You have to see if it is. Who of booze of funeral dina ville those new features element this issue. Was michael muslim. John winless in one gear. He'll fees the intel. Give us a phase. I mean that his throat. But i saw thought the warriors zaire's who will lead to bruce was magical thing to voice music. Your say say was give this some the friends view the simply booth. We miss the previous previews that to that. Program are to be pleasurable tattoo based up the pitching lose those over puma years gaza this that multiple him walking sooner. You'll get ice. Mondays monitor in tokyo. Bossa joe two thousand little place start up with fear for the heavy seem to take them you. What a key to. This is in bacchus. So i'll into robocup gorgeous pool deduct but i you swallow loss We must move the pig mice them be that been bloomberg fodder. I'm not dot defending together into new sink. Beautiful bulletin of you bet you sip visas begin elicit there for us ob useful civetta sub. The psa only got quiz acumen. Muya maverick mir's by either move ac- about other sample so good news stuff miserable. Seamount jek setup. George kickoff party. They'll susan lucci earth does need your system. But this is the cost bother differentiate. Those are the by mutual. What spitzer who's giovanni french quarter of evaluate diets loop stock was to get inches up. The naidoo vasu fridge start. Paul george the gym that she was being apology. Stop there's g mcclatchy capital here. They start my start. The wanna give any metrics so he didn't tullio hardy positive. A positive stuck or on the this year is already gear. Phillies jia noval.

dina ville michael muslim warriors intel puma bacchus bruce gaza tokyo John susan lucci spitzer g mcclatchy capital giovanni Paul george George Phillies jia noval
The News Roundup For January 10, 2020

1A

1:31:24 hr | 11 months ago

The News Roundup For January 10, 2020

"This is one A. Happy Friday. I'm Todd Willeke in Washington. The House votes to limit President Trump's war-making power against Iran. The Senate majority leader takes the impeachment trial into his own hands and a`major quick rocks. Puerto Rico. It's the domestic our the Friday news roundup in joining me to discuss the top headlines of the week David Gura. He's correspondent with MSNBC ABC joining us from NPR studios in New York City. David great to have you pay. Todd thanks joining us here in the studio Molly Ball. She's national political correspondent at time and a political analyst on CNN. Malaita see you again. Thanks for having me John. And my longtime colleague David Lightman national political correspondent with mcclatchy newspapers. David thanks for being here. Thanks for having me well. It was one of the most critical calls in president. Trump's three years as commander in chief the choice to kill Iran's top ranked general general and an escalation with a regional power bringing it the prospect of major military conflict in the Middle East at home. It's raised questions about why I now and about the role of Congress in authorizing military action. We're GONNA get to all the details in just one second but girl what's your main takeaway away from this crisis and how it's been handled here on the domestic scene. You think how close we came to the brink of something greater than I think. A lot of people thought we'd be at At this point in time and there's been a lot of discussion about the strategy that led to this. I think that what's been illuminated In the sense of how little strategy there was after this happened. You you've seen in these recent days members of the administration the president trying to expound upon so much as they can or want to publicly the rationale for doing this Dovetailed with that. That is the skepticism from members of Congress from the public from reporters as well Just about how. How thoroughly thought through all of this and and again going back to what I said I think that we came? Perilously close to something greater All of us were watching that night as Iran launch those strikes on this basis in Iraq. Wondering what more could come after that I think that in many corners there was this collective sigh of relief that we didn't hear from the president that night. He seems to be conferring with his advisors. Wait until the following morning took stock of what happened and and Maybe cooler heads prevailed then David Lightman Not The first time you've seen commander in chief calls like this. What did you take in by the end of this week? It in many ways this tug of war between how quickly should a president unilaterally act versus. How much consultation she do with Congress? This is going in on and I'm old enough to remember. The Gulf of Tonkin resolution be eligible for the draft. Frankly back during Vietnam where President Johnson Got Authority in Nineteen Sixty four broad authority. That allowed him to go ahead with the troop buildup in Vietnam. The war powers resolution came along in one thousand nine hundred seventy three away to curb presidential power our but here we are all these years later still debating how what is the role of Congress. Members of Congress can't remember which senator was said it at the very least the president should have a conversation with Congress which is a conversation with the American people before doing this and he did not and that's caused a lot of the controversy. Molly all presidents say they have no greater responsibility than sending troops into harm's way Did President trump make himself a war president this week in this twenty twenty election year. No I think as as as David G was saying You know we showed up to the brink but but ultimately it seems at this point and we should know that we're still very much in the middle of this and they're still a lot we don't no and the rainiers of many has as many have noted are both Patient and unpredictable. So there could still be further esclation on either side action on either side. Excuse me but to this point what we've seen and and I think the pattern of of president trump's trump's military actions or or or foreign policy actions tends to be a sort of reverse Teddy Roosevelt. It's sort of a speak loudly and carry a small stick where where he will often He will often bluster. We saw this with North Korea a lot of threats a lot of provocations and then reigning it in At the at a point when when it starts to get scary he reigns it in any any any pulls it back and I think this is a continuum a bit from the the campaign where he campaigned simultaneously on a sort of isolationism. salaciously system saying that. We shouldn't be involved in so many wars and foreign entanglements but at the same time a sort of very bellicose rhetoric right saying we're going to bomb. I'm the you-know-what out of Isis and and take very decisive action. Where called for so I think it it? This is part of that same pattern but again we don't yet. I know how it ends the bellicose rhetoric yet we hear over and over again. We see examples that Donald trump doesn't want conflict. Doesn't want to get into into a war. After the bellicose rhetoric. He tends to back away from it but I think it's worth remembering The number of US drone strikes around the world Syria Iraq Pakistan Yemen Afghanistan Ghanistan Somalia is significantly higher under president trump. So far than it was under President Obama. Now a lot of those strikes are not publicized. That's a the fact that many people don't know but the drone war has actually amped up under this president. We should remember that when we say he's not a war president well flanked by Vice President President Pants and secretary of state. Mike POMPEO president trump on Wednesday confirmed there had been no American or Iraqi casualties during Iran's retaliation strikes but he he also warned Tehran Sola. Many's hands were drenched in both American and Iranian blood. He should have been terminated terminated long ago by removing salamone. We've sent a powerful message to terrorists. If you value your own life you will well not threaten the lives of our people. David David Gura. The politics is inevitable. Here as we bear down Iowa in just a few weeks What is a new national security focus? What is that new focus due to the Democratic primary that having an effect? I'm curious how long this lasts. And you've watched. The last asked debates and foreign policy has really been a CODA to to the questioning during those debates. I wonder if that's GONNA changes. We look ahead to this next debate next week in Iowa but I do think that this was a moment. When the Democrats the Democrat candidate for the Democratic nomination able to sort of set themselves apart and try to draw distinctions among them you had Senator Bernie Sanders farthest to the left less interventionist interventionalist of of all of them and You had others who expressed some sympathy Mike Bloomberg with with what happened and who was killed in this in this strike so it was a moment during which we learn more about that. I guess my question question going forward. We'll see what happens as we get closer to Iowa's you say is the residents of that among the electorate and certainly the campaign of former vice president. Joe Biden has focused so much on his foreign policy experience in the Senate and vice president. He's played up the fact that he's been in the room for a lot of these decisions. He's on them. He's had decades of experience dealing with all of this There was that ad that he put out which was cheered in in many corners But I think brought up this question of that was the case. Essentially the Secretary State Hillary Clinton was was making back in two thousand sixteen that she was also in the room and was also part of these conversations and and yet So I think that's what I'll be watching for here as we get closer to Iowa and New Hampshire as well well speaking of Joe Joe Biden Joe Biden was pushed by by. NBC's Lester Holt on whether he supported the action that was taken by the president against Iran. Do you give president the president of benefit of the doubt when he says there is intelligence of an imminent attack. I don't give him the benefit of anything. You don't believe him he's not well he could be true but I don't give them the benefit of doubt because he's lied so much about virtually everything now. When a president orders a strike overseas you're tempted to reflexively interpret this in the traditional traditional way which is when the president becomes the commander in chief that tends to help him in the in the polls but a USA Today poll just out yesterday? sturday finds that Americans two-to-one think the killing of Qasim Sulamani made America less safe molly and fifty to thirty four percent say president and trump's action was reckless. That's not what I expected. Well and it reflects I think a lot of the realities of the situation a lot of the facts that we have learned seem to back up the idea that this action wasn't taken with The usual amount of deliberation nor nor with the usual amount of transparency. The parents as we were talking about before right even if the president doesn't seek formal authorization from Congress for for something like this which is which is arguably an active four just inherently taking out someone of the stature and a foreign government foreign military Even if you don't seek congressional approval Congress's generally briefed briefed on things like this the The most sensitive you know. Congressional committees are generally get some indication from the administration and so You Know David L was saying. This is part of a longstanding conversation about You Congress's role in foreign policy. I would go further than that. These are all debates about separation abrasion of powers and whether you're talking about impeachment or many many other things that This administration has done. They are ultimately debates about the role of Congress. I in in policy and Congress attempting to reassert itself against a presidency that has been very aggressive in trying to do do things unilaterally. We're GONNA talk more after a break about Congress about briefings that made members of Congress mad when it comes to strike a bit before we do David Lightman. What do you make of this surprising? Poll fifty to thirty four percent. Say President Trump's action was reckless. Do you see that having any predictive value when we look at the election Russian. Yes I'll tell you why Go back to previous elections previous strikes back to Grenada in. Nineteen eighty-three when suddenly president. Isn't Reagan got a boost. Go back even to nineteen eighty seventy nine and eighty the Iran hostage taking the helicopter raid. President Carter got a boost because he looked strong long but here was the danger. If in fact those missions turned out to be flawed as it wore for Carter. They sank this time. I think it shows you. The public is so skeptical. Skeptical so divided over president trump. That even something like this doesn't create that rally around the flag effect nor I think create the kind of Downfall should I hope this doesn't happen. Things go awry high a high benefit also high risk when the president orders troops into battle. Well coming up more of the week's top national news with David Gura of MSNBC Molly Ball at time and David Lightman with mcclatchy. This week. Mac Miller's family said they would release a post host Austin. A posthumous album from the rappaport called circles Miller died in September two thousand eighteen from an accidental drug overdose. This song from the album Called good news on. Todd's will like you're listening to one A. from WMU and NPR spent l.. Dollars Diam aspirin cleaner busy dreaming. Uh maybe US wake up instead. Not Dan I've just say forget again. Just be as does there by name guy when you have this message comes from. NPR sponsor. Better help a truly affordable online counselling service fill out a questionnaire online and get matched with a licensed counselor best suited to your mental health needs whether it's depression Russian anxiety or trauma better help will help you. Overcome what stands in the way of your happiness learn more at better help DOT COM and get ten percent off your first first month with Promo Code One way better help get help anytime anywhere. NPR's life kit wants to help you make changes that actually stick this this New Year for how to do dry January to how to start a creative habit. We've got new episodes all month to help start the year off right new episodes every a Tuesday and Thursday. Listen subscribe to Lake Kit. It's one eight. I'm Todd Willik before we go to Capitol Hill and the politics six of the week today. The Bureau of Labor Labor in statistics released its job numbers report and it was a bit disappointing the. US added one hundred forty forty five thousand jobs in December as the unemployment rate remained three point five percent economists though expected to see around one hundred and fifty thousand new jobs added so potentially disappointing. Maybe flat jobs numbers from the BLS. Today we're talking about the week's top domestic stories with David Gura correspondent with with MSNBC. Joining us from New York City Molly Ball national political correspondent at time and David Lightman national political correspondent with mcclatchy newspapers. Now I promised we would go go to Capitol Hill because the news went to Capitol Hill this week. Lawmakers in Congress some of them anyway reacted very very badly speaking of Iran to being told hold not to debate or questioned further presidential action when it comes to Iran. Let's listen to you Utah Republican Senator Mike Lee. He seemed genuinely appalled appalled that he'd been invited into a briefing with administration officials. Not being given a whole lot of information then being given a line by the White House then being told you you shouldn't debate it in the first place what I found so distressing about that briefing was that one of the messages we receive from the briefers was do the debate. Do not discuss the issue of the appropriateness of further Miller military intervention against Iran. And then if you do you'll be emboldening. Iran implication being that we would somehow be making America less safe. David Lightman what happened here. Did the administration miscalculate the loyalty. Some might even say the fealty of Republican senators to this White House. They got a bad reaction. Yeah although most Republican senators who quickly fell in line. What was striking is senator? Enderle is not one to stand in the capital basement surrounded by reporters saying things like that I think excuse me what. Disturbed Republicans and Democrats Is this and it's very hard to get anybody on the record here but what disturbed him. I think was the lack of a coherent strategy. You talked earlier about drone strikes and so I think what people want to know is what is your worldview. What is your plan? What is your Henry Kissinger like view of the world old? And they're not getting that and that's what they want to know. Where does what happened in Iran fit? They're not hearing that. David Gura what did you make of the reaction from Mike Lee and and Rand Paul to Republicans only but both in other cases very loyal to this White House. Mike Lee made a point to tell reporters how much he supports the commander in chief how much he thinks. His overall foreign policy is excellent but on this point he was extremely angry. What do you think actually happened here? Yeah he had that expected caveat and you heard from Matt Gaetz as well who ended up voting for that resolution yesterday in the house where powers resolution as well again saying that he's perhaps the big fan of the president and supports him on foreign policy in most just other most other matters but to what David was saying. I mean it was extraordinary to hear that from The senator from Utah in the in the capital basement or wherever. It was forceful and I again go back to to the response that we've seen from the White House since and this is a day on which they'll be a briefing From from the Secretary of State Secretary of the Treasury as well talking to reporters but trying to make this case. It's so striking to listen to Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and how semantic it is. I mean He. He's focusing on the issue imminence and it seems like from from what we've heard from them The observations that we've gotten from lawmakers who've discussed this that's a fuzzy thing At this point the need for this strike to have taken place when it did Certainly he talked about this on Fox News with Laura Ingraham Ingram and the same thing sleeping explicit about the fact that the money was planning something. But we don't know what to paraphrase him don't know precisely where and don't know precisely when mean that's not Henry Kissinger that that is that is something that engenders scepticism and concern. I think in a lot of people. It'll be interesting to see if this task sizes some if it goes beyond insidiously and Rand Paul. I don't expect that it will give them what we've seen so far But that anxiety and that palpable anger at what happened here is is. It's something I think that we should all know molly. It was reported that the Secretary of Defense was the one in that briefing. Who urged senators not to debate war powers not to debate debate the president's power to go at Iran in the future because that will only embolden Iran YOU'RE NOT INSIDE MR experts head but what do you think might have been going through the minds of administration officials that they went up on Capitol Hill and urge senators not to debate. Because it really backfired I did I. I think you heard From the people who are in the briefings and I spoke to Speaker Pelosi on Wednesday afternoon after she had received several briefings from the Pentagon in the administration Shen And she is the longest serving member of the House Intelligence Committee. She has long background on these issues She was the top Democrat on the house. Intelligence Committee When the Bush administration was going to war in Iraq and felt that The thinness of the evidence to which she was exposed in that capacity was the reason She opposed the war and urged Democrats oppose the war at that time And so there seems to have been a combination of members from from both parties so definitely mostly Democrats and when the war resolution was on the floor of the House yesterday. In fact there were more democratic crossover votes Republicans there were only three Republicans who voted for it and there for eight Democrats who voted against it. All that being said the members seem to have felt a combination of The the positive the evidence itself was concerning concerning but also the attitude of the administration. This attitude as you said that that the administration didn't feel it needed to present strong case to Congress. There was there. Was this message being sent of you. Just trust us and that is sort of insult to the institutional prerogatives of Congress that members tend to take pretty poorly. The House voted to constrain president. Trump's war powers when it comes was to Iran the Senate will address it within the next week or two senator. Tim Kaine was on the show yesterday. He has a privileged resolution that means he will get his vote will see when it happens and when it does we'll have more to talk about in terms of Congress and the president's war powers. It was easy to forget where. Forget for a moment this week that the president of the United States has been impeached by the House of Representatives. Nancy that happened back on December eighteenth. Nancy Pelosi so far though has not moved forward with the next phase which is to to send those articles of impeachment to the Senate so that Senate Republicans who control the Senate can and construct their trials but Senate Majority Leader Mitch. McConnell is gearing up for that trial vile anyway. He says he's not waiting yesterday. He told his members to get ready to be tied up with the impeachment for the coming few weeks even as he continued to refuse speaker occur. Pelosi's demands to lay out the rules for that trial before she sends those articles over. I want to know what the rules of the game are before I toss you the ball. Here's more of what Mitch McConnell had to say earlier in the week on Tuesday we have the votes Wants the impeachment. Trial had begun to pass ask a resolution essentially the same very similar to the one hundred to nothing. Vote in the Clinton trial which sets up as you may recall what could be described as maybe a phase one at that point during the Clinton trial the issue of ah the appropriateness of calling witnesses was addressed so Mitch. McConnell says we'll decide on witnesses once the trial begins that's how it was done for Clinton he says but the Speaker Nancy Pelosi. She was not bowing to this pressure holding me indefinitely over and that will probably be soon. I don't you said if you don't send him over. I'm going to pass the Mexico. US candidates trade agreement. Okay but no we. We WanNA see what they're willing in to do and the manner in which they will do it but we will not let them say oh this is just like Clinton fairs. It's not documents breath. Documentation witnesses facts truth. That's what they're afraid of David. Lightman does anyone have any leverage here does leverage matter in a situation like this and are we going to hear from fact witnesses I'm not sure and I'm there every day a couple of honestly yesterday The Republicans came out of a lunch. And the senator McConnell said you know we may have a trial as soon as next week and we said is there any inside information here. Do you know anything and people said. Well no so then we said Gee you're GONNA start at the end of next week and then you've got the Martin Luther King holiday coming up you're going to keep people here over that holiday so it's everything is sort of in flux in turmoil. Right now Pelosi just wants the rules. She doesn't want to list of witnesses. At this point I think in some ways what Republicans may be concerned about is it only takes fifty one votes in the Senate to call a witness and as you know John Bolton the former national security adviser is said subpoena me. I'm happy. Talk are TJ tweets. This the house must find some way to have John Bolton testified the former national security adviser who was in I in fact witness to a a lot of the conversations upon which the impeachment story turns whether or not the president used his power to coerce Ukraine to help him politically Molly Artesia says the House has to call John Bolton somehow or the Senate if they have fifty one votes could call John. Bolton's John Bolton somehow as an outside observer WHO's not connected to this in any way you say well he was there he saw and he heard it. How could you not want to hear from him? But maybe they don't maybe they don't. We'll we'll see an end but I think it's important to emphasize that what what David L. was just saying which is that And again I spoke to the speaker and asked after this question about What her standards are for sending over the articles and she wanted to she? She's stressed that she's not trying to tell the Senate what their the rules have to be. She just wants to see what they are. And McConnell has said he has the votes for a rules package but he hasn't laid it out and so her standard is just as soon as I have seen what they are. I will know who I should point from the house to to manage that trial but you know Pelosi and McConnell are both very skilled tacticians very very strategic thinkers. The this stuff between the two of them is very sort of unstoppable force meets immovable object on Capitol Hill. The Wild Card is the president and I think that what is with speaker is counting on. Is that whether or not McConnell has it in him To hold out indefinitely trump is getting agitated. Trump wants this trial trial. Trump wants to be able to claim exoneration by the Senate having voted against these articles So that is I. Think the x factor and all he sure does he called into rush limbaugh this week to tell rush limbaugh how badly he wants this. Well I think what they're trying to do is affect the election illegally. But that's what they're trying to do but the reason that because they're they are a joke they are not crimes there is nothing there they found nothing. David Gura will help the president. The call was perfect. It was perfect. Call actor. Yeah so but but John Bolton David Lightman said something and it's important John Bolton Alton national security advisor the fact witness says subpoena me. I'll come does that. Change the dynamic of not only the politics of this in front of the public but how impeachment might play out in front of lawmakers a bit There is some coins to investor bulletin. As as as we all know. And he's working on a book and there. There could be a publicity gambit as well if he wanted to speak he could speak. And he's introducing this subpoena me line. I think to make things more difficult to make them more challenging As you said he he has a lot to say in a lot that he could say you know. Nobody knows speaker Pelosi better than volleyball. WHO's writing biography of her? And then you've got David Lightman. WHO's up on Capitol Hill all say from here in New York as I watch all of this unfold I see no agitation on the part of the Speaker Speaker? This vacuum has opened up. It's a yawning vacuum. As you say we're approaching this Martin Luther King weekend. I don't sense that she's under a whole lot of pressure to move more expeditiously on this. Then then she is. We're waiting on here. Moving the articles to the Senate. We're waiting on the naming of the managers that we make making the case in the Senate as well. I don't see there being a huge amount of pressure on her to do that on on a timetable that she doesn't want to have and I go back to that. Vacuum things have played out the way. I think a lot of Democrats thought they would give all of this. That you've had reporting on new emails. Goes on what people were doing on conversations that were happening and that's all happened without further witnesses testifying people coming to Capitol Hill That I think can only be beneficial to the Democrats as they try to make their case and make that case whenever in fact they do we will let thi through a little more before we decide. How impeachment will affect the election in two thousand twenty any? We don't even know quite what flavor that t is yet. But we're GONNA find out in the next couple of weeks but wow on Capitol Hill. I'd like to talk just a little bit about corruption. Let's talk about corruption because re Representative Duncan Hunter Republican of Southern California announced that. He's resigning next week resigning next week. But he pled guilty guilty to misusing campaign funds felonies back in December David Lightman remind us again about Duncan Hunter and his case well Dunkin hundred first of all. They're not going to fill the seat because they don't want to go through the The election and so forth Duncan Hunter Gimme a minute here to make sure I'm talking about legal matters. I better get it right. He pled guilty to misusing campaign funds spending campaign money on personal shopping. I think getting getting accessories. Threes for his rabbit and this appropriating airplane key list appropriately went to fifty thousand dollars in campaign. Donations spent some of the money Johnny on extra-marital liaisons prosecutors alleged His wife pleaded guilty in June Naming the Spouses Co conspirator agreeing to cooperate with the prosecutors. Heavy Stuff Duncan Hunter pled guilty six weeks ago and was able to collect public funds of a salary for six weeks before deciding he was ready to go. Why was is that allowed to happen? Why was he not expelled You know it's a good question. I don't have a good answer for you on that. Yeah I'm not sure that anybody does leaders Congress. Ah We've tried molly while we're on the topic of corruption. Let's talk about Chris Collins. He's a former member of Congress from northern upstate New York. He pled guilty last year to insider trading and now we learn a tied a bow on his political career in late December by repaying himself about one hundred forty six thousand dollars in leftover leftover campaign funds instead of returning those to his donors. Well I think the interesting thing. About both of these cases the both of these guys got in trouble before the election and still got reelected counting on the strong partisan leanings of their districts and and they made a very sort of trump and argument about this is all fake news. The deep state is is is engaged in a conspiracy against me But then eventually had to plead guilty and resigned because of the nature of the evidence and so it seems that at least if you're not president trump the facts do eventually catch up to you and you can't exist forever in a state of you know just alleging that it's all made up not forever no but you you can exist for six more weeks on the taxpayer dime and if you cease to exist you can at least get one hundred and forty six grand somebody else's money so don't forget the pension and the pension Shen David let me tell you. The good news is in some ways that they do resign. Way Back when when I worked in Baltimore in the seventy S and people would be convicted of things and still get reelected and what we would do at the sun. Baltimore Sun back then. Everybody was Mr Mrs or MS in the they lost there. Mr Mr Mrs. That was the just punishment. Yeah all right we'RE GONNA get back to the round up in just a moment we're going to take a break but first we have to remember a great entertainer retainer buck. Henry was a writer and comedian. On Saturday night live he was also nominated for an Oscar for his screenplay of the graduate. I want to say one in. Just one word yes. You're listening. Plastics plastics plastics. The immortal words written by Buck Henry. He died on January eight. Henry created the satirical spy Sitcom get smart with Mel Brooks got an academy award for a CO directing the nineteen seventy-eight afterlife comedy. Heaven can wait with actor Warren Beatty Buck. Henry was eighty nine years old. We're going to have more for our from our guests and from you in just a moment and we're going to turn to the national campaign we're gonNA find out whether Elizabeth Warren benefits from a new endorsement. And we're also going to talk a little bit about what's on our reporters quarters minds as they look forward to this election year. Stick with us. It's one on support for this podcast and the following message come from Uber. Uber is committed to safety and to continuously raising the bar to help make safer journeys for everyone for starters. All drivers are background checked before afford their first ride and screened on an ongoing basis and now uber has introduced a brand new safety feature called ride check. which can detective trip goes unusually off? Course Chris and check in to provide support to learn more about Uber's commitment to safety visit Uber Dot com slash safety planet. Money is the man who popularized optimized recycling by making a deal with the Mafia. It's the bedroom. Beats maker making heads for Drake Nicki Menaj and the woman trying to get her money back from then mo planet money from NPR. Let's get back to the news. Roundup with David Gura correspondent with MSNBC MOLLY BALL national political correspondent on it with time and David Lightman national political correspondent with mcclatchy newspapers David G Julio Castro of Texas dropped out of the presidential race this week week he had facially endorsed Elizabeth Warren Is this a big get four Elizabeth. Warren she's been lagging lately. Does an endorsement like this help in any substantive substantive way I think it'll help some I'm interested in him deciding to drop out looking back at the campaign thus far he was the first candidate that I sat down with and Anybody who's met him or heard him speak talk to him Knows that he is incredibly thoughtful. Had A lot of very sound tailed policy positions. And yet he wasn't able to get you know a huge amount of support port. I spoke with him most recently after he delivered a speech at Stanford University a few weeks back focused on foreign policy. The kind of thing that you think might have gained more traction than it did and and that seems to be the challenge of of his campaign And you know I think as you say she she has been. I don't know lagging but flat lining a little bit here in terms of support report. It can help in that way. I know that this weekend. She's GonNa be in New Hampshire. He's going to be in Nevada stumping for her. It broadens the reach of her Campos by having him as as a major surrogate But I think that he brought something to that group of candidates for the Democratic nomination certainly from his background his political background as well That I think we'll be advantageous to her. We're going forward Molly speaking of the race one of our reporter experts earlier in the week said something that I that that hit home for me. He said I think we are undervaluing Bernie Sanders. There's journalist political journalist. The national discourse is undervaluing Bernie Sanders. He's leading in a lot of polls or tied for the lead his fundraising is beyond the far side side of the moon. He's raising tons of money. Do you agree with that. Do you think that that Bernie Sanders stock is is inappropriately low. I think it was but I think the new conventional national wisdom has become the undervalue right. And now he's he's there yeah. I think he's appropriately rated not underrated overrated at this point But but no I mean Bernie. Sanders is absolutely a factor in there had been a tendency to overlook him just because he is so steady. Right he doesn't have as much support as he did for years ago but he still does have as you know robust fundraising Enough support to keep him basically in that four way tie for first that we see going into both Iowa and New Hampshire it depends on the polls but I it it tends to be those. Four candidates really clustered together at the top and And so all of them are really hoping for a late surge as we go into those early states and so there's two ways this could play out it could be. That candidate gets a late surge. Whether it's out of the debate or something else or as a result of the organization they built. It could be that we come out out of Iowa the way we went into it with essentially four way tie and then this could go on for a by the way I said that Julia on Castro dropped out this week. He dropped out last week. I should clarify the endorsement horsemen came later. The Elizabeth Warren Endorsement One last point on the election David Lightman hundred and seventy million dollars. That's the amount that Michael Bloomberg number K spent on television and the Internet and even though he's not polling through the roof. I don't think anybody knows the effect of that amount of spending on the American democratic. mcadoo voter what. We don't know what we never know. Is what the so-called casual voters GONNA do. I mean they're voters who are committed. And that's what you see popping up in the polls but Mike Spirit has been the casual voter votes in the primary for one of two reasons they protest or they want a winner in two thousand four Democratic primary member. Knbr John Kerry rose in the last week because he was seen as a winner in two thousand John McCain Rosen the New Hampshire primary clobber George W. Bush which no one expected a protest against the establishment. So who's going to. Who's going to appeal to the casual voter? And how after all these years. We don't have that magic bullet if you will. We'll see. facebook made some political news this week by what they're doing and also through what they're not doing. A facebook defied pressure from Congress announced. He would not police the truthfulness of election campaign political ads Molly tell us a little bit more about facebook's decision here how it positions dishes them with Congress and how it might affect the types of ads in messages that voters are seeing. I don't have a lot of inside information. Any in fact about what about about the facebook decision but it does it. It's clear that all of these tech companies are grappling with on the one hand. They're the they're criticize. They do nothing. They're criticized if they do something and if they do something wing. It opens up a whole a whole quagmire of different decisions about trying to make standards dealing with accusations of partisanship Spending a lot of money trying to police these types of things and so On facebook send especially I think given that the the drive to Both investigate them in the executive branch and potentially regulate them in the legislative branch. Both of those efforts Seemed to have fizzled for now. So they feel safe sort of saying we're just not going to do this. And that obviously opens up a very wide range of potential actions from the foreign government government interference that we saw in two thousand sixteen and that is apparently alive and well in twenty twenty To just you know both campaigns and candidates themselves and also kinds ends of unscrupulous political actors seeking to you know so all kinds of both misinformation and and just persuasion to unleash it on on on an unsuspecting acting. electorate in unforeseen ways. I don't think we have any idea. What kind of factor? This could be an upcoming election. David Gird is facebook. WanNa keep its hands. TRY TO KEEP HIS HANDS CLEAN here. While it reaps the millions in campaign ads. That are coming its way yeah. They're trying this has not been a good week for for facebook. Giving the announcement that you were talking about not giving us Andrew Bosworth piece that was posted internally but made its way out into the press and then this sponsored content that found its way onto the pages of teen vogue. What's not labeled able to such? And yes you know the title of that piece. How facebook is helping ensure the integrity of the twenty twenty election with commentary from a number of the the company's executives trying to keep their hands clean by pulling back to this this interview that Sheryl Sandberg the the Co two Bloomberg TV a few months back when she described how important this is to facebook? Bottom line it gets something like one percent of the money it makes on. Ads come from political ads and I just thought about that a lot since then why why do all of these acrobatics. Why go through all of this? If it really is something so minimal as that. I think that you know what you're seeing. More macro level is a company that has way more power and influence. And I think it's founder. Early executive team thought that it would have trying to wrestle with a lot of these decisions. And it's Molly's allude to you have members of Congress who aren't impressed by what they've seen thus far You know it's it's interesting to look at all of these companies and complement compliment certainly compare facebook twitter twitter too much more. I guess you could say Jakonen or harder line stance on political advertising going into this election but I think all of us have more of an awareness of the seriousness. Going forward. And you know something that wouldn't be covered by FACEBOOK's decision to do this that infamous video of Nancy Pelosi where it looks like. She's slurring her words and she was drunk or whatever it was that wouldn't be pulled down and I think something like that leaves us with a sense of what could becoming next again there. There's more of an awareness that bad things are coming but we don't know what they are yet I certainly feel that I think that users of the platform probably feel that you've got to think that the executives at this company you know day in day out are are wary and worried about what that could be. I want to make sure that we check in on Puerto Rico before we move on this hour. Puerto Rico is still recovering from a catastrophic hurricane. Maria back in two thousand seventeen and now the island once again under assault this time from beneath the ground terrible earthquake that shook Puerto Rico. Justice cost is. They're trying to recover infrastructures. Still extremely difficult on the island David have you been hearing anything. There are many advocates for Puerto Rico on Capitol Hill. This is another difficult time for the island How are they getting through? Well apparently power could be ultra as much as a year certain parts of the island After in fact they had all kinds of problems with that To begin with As you know the president came under fire for his attitude towards Puerto Rico after the hurricane. I mean it's still. How can I put it? This is still developing. Puerto Rico has a lot of powerful advocates on both sides of the aisle. And I think you're going to see some kind of emergency aid very quickly. The question is what will the White House's attitude big what is the perception of Fema right now among lawmakers at at times in its recent history has been extremely low perception. It's we're covered from the Katrina days of two thousand five it's seen as a decently functioning organization Again the worry is what will the administration do here. And they're going to need FEMA. What will the administration? And they're going to need fema on their island yet again and support of all all of their fellow Americans I want to take the time we have left. I just want to get inside your heads a little bit. You're the experts year that journalists. I I WANNA find out what you've been thinking about. Maybe that's not in the headlines yet. What you're working on or maybe what? You're looking forward to over the next month this new election year. Molly let me start with you. You do have a new piece right right entire out in Time magazine I think just today I published yesterday. It'll be on newsstands and in mailboxes. Over the weekend on the cover of Time magazine I I am looking forward to cloning myself so I can simultaneously cover a lively primary campaign And an impeachment trial and Both of which are very up in the air and exciting journalists for. We're grateful for the Fire Hose of news. We are confronting as David G so generously alluded to I am Writing a biography geography speaker. Pelosi that that comes out in May and And so forth Time magazine. I had a series of conversations with the speaker as she has strategized through the impeachment process and I think the larger project as she sees it of preserving the constitution preserving the checks and balances of American in democracy by asserting Congress's role and trying to rein in an executive that certainly most democrats dangerously out of control so My piece includes a lot of Previously unreported details about her role in strategizing managing both the impeachment process and The you know the larger project of Making Congress relevant and You know because ensure until the Democrats won that two thousand eighteen election and she became speaker again the Republicans controlled all of Capitol Capitol Hill in addition to the White House and it has been quite a different story for president trump since he faced one half of one branch being controlled by the other part. Nancy Pelosi who was so reluctant so reluctant to pursue impeachment. It's going to be a bad thing for my Democrats. Who won in trump districts? Now of course she's she's gone along We're all going to read the book to get the full answer but the but the T. L. D. R.. Answer that's the maybe too long answers. How has she come around on the on that issue as she now been convinced I that frontline Democrats in Conservative districts can win with impeachment? Is She okay with it now. The short answer is yes. She would claim that that this was Something something they were forced to do by the constitution that nothing to do with political calculation but of course everyone is keeping their eye on the polls and she believes based on The the the political landscape landscape that she's seen that by the time the twenty election comes around what we're going to be talking about his health care and things that affect people's lives not impeachment. Do It's the start of twenty twenty. What's on your mind? Look ahead to my deep dive into the four nine K.. You'll excuse my there but this is what the president tweeted this out yesterday saying everyone's four nine case of courses so such a 401k at least as a financial instrument but It it fuels my interest in the resonance of the economic message that the president could deliver. Perhaps should it'd be delivering. and He seems unable to do. And you look at what he tweets and talks about it's the stock market It certain facets of the economy. I think finding out how that resonates with the electorate Britt how he makes that resonate with the electorate interesting to me. You mentioned the jobs numbers at the top of the show There was some slowness or weakness in wage growth. This is still a persistent issue for people across this country and I just think that tension is something I'm very keen to explore here as we move ahead to the election That is how what looks. Good on. Paper isn't good still for a lot of people boom in this country And I think that's the retrained to mine well speaking of what's good for people across the country David Lightman you've been doing a lot of reporting on the GOP and their tax cuts cuts in. How they're selling them in the election? what's on your mind when it comes to the tax cuts and the red states. Well the state the deduction action for state and local taxes was capped. Ten thousand dollars per return as a result of the twenty seventeen tax cut. That's clobbering people in a lot of states that we have Markets California in particular L. Annoys me etc.. So they're not going to be much done about that. The House passed a repeal that cap in December. Now this means you pay state and local taxes and you can write off that cost on your federal returns right but only only up to ten right right and Actually the tax policy center is a wonderful congressional district by Congressional district chart of WHO's paid what around the country which you'll see in a story will pop Monday at five. AM mcclatchy DC DOT COM That's a huge issue but even more than that we keep in close lost touch with our markets and we find people are really concerned about a lot of these things that are under the radar. For example Congress passed a bill to crack down on unwanted robocalls Oh calls in late December. The president signed it. I think last week that got you traffic for us. People really cared about that one And there are other. There's other legislation education that again people don't even Aren't aware that we can make them aware of The House for example pass legislation to mandate mothers rooms rooms in small airports. Now a lot of the markets we serve Fresno Bellingham Sarasota Bradenton and so forth. That's a big deal So we're trying to keep an I on that and we're trying to also to keep an eye on budget economics the House and Senate pass a budget in December. I mean there's so much there that people care era about so. We're continue to investigate that very quickly on the issue of state and local taxes right off you said people are getting clobbered does it make it harder for the GOP coppee to sell the virtues of the tax cut. If people are getting clobbered by the tax cut in certain places yeah it makes it very hard for them in California Illinois New York New Jersey Connecticut but their argument and a lot of Liberal Democrats are picking up on. This is that if in fact you lift the cap again. You're giving a benefit that goes primarily early to the wealthy so it's difficult argument and then you would have Democrats voting for yet another bit of tax relief for the wealthy. Yeah nothing simple there even as you try to figure out the politics it's fascinating and I'm glad we got the chance to get inside of these three reporters minds just a little bit as they look forward to twenty twenty and I can't wait for that deep profile that book Nancy Pelosi. She's fascinating. Look Lover Hater. She is a fascinating American. Political figure truly fascinating. Malia Malia can't wait thank you so much that is essentially the thesis of the book you can go to Molly Ball Dot com if you WANNA pre-order it. That's Molly Ball. She's national political correspondent at time and political political analysts for CNN and an author. An excellent salesman. David Lightman is national political correspondent with mcclatchy newspapers and David Gura is correspondent with MSNBC. Joining us from New York City. Thanks all thank you. Thank you one as the Lead Audio Engineers Jake Cherry Gabrielle. Nearly Chris Gano Alien Humphries and Ben Privet all produce will turn the international section of the news roundup right after this support for this podcast and the following message come from the Walton and Family Foundation where opportunity takes root more information is available at Walton Family Foundation Dot Org support for this podcast and the the following message come from the American Jewish World Service working together for more than thirty years to build a more just and equitable world learn more at age. Aws US DOT org. Iran has dominated the news this week and as we start to know more the decision by President trump to kill. Iran's top general general has had consequences that are being felt far beyond the Middle East. Australia continues to struggle with devastating bushfires and Buckingham Palace finds itself in in a very different kind of firefight. So lots to talk about on this Friday news roundup. My guests are Daniel Kurtz Falen and executive editor for foreign affairs. Daniel is the author of the China mission. George Marshall's unfinished wore. Nineteen forty-five to nineteen forty seven and he joins us from New York. Daniel great to have you. Thanks so so much great to be here. Also we welcome back Peter Bergen. CNN's national security analyst Vice President and director of the International Security Program at New America. His latest book is called trump and his generals the cost of chaos Peter. It's great to see you again. Thank you well. In the early hours of Wednesday morning Ron launched two missile strikes on two bases basis in Iraq that are home to. US troops those attacks. Of course put the world on edge. Both sides now appear to be stepping back from the brink of war on the same night as that missile strike though Ukraine International Flight International Airlines flight. ps seven five two crashed just after taking off from the Iranian capital capital. Killing all one hundred seventy six passengers and crew who were on board evidence now suggests that it was a missile that brought down that plane a Peter. Let's start with the Iranian missile attack on the military bases What happened in maybe more important than what happened in that attack? What didn't happen in that added tack? Well you know festival. The Iran's won't the Iraqi government is going to happen and the Iraqi government then warned the US government that it was going to happen so in a sense you know. The fix was in that there would be no casualties. It was intended to To produce no casualties it was intended to be some kind of response by the Iranians. But we know from the attack your recalled in June the attack on the APP cake oil facility which is the most important oil facility augury in the world in Saudi Arabia which was conducted Almost certainly by the Iranians that the attack was conducted with pinpoint accuracy. So the Iranians have the capability if they wanted to kill lots of Americans on these bases but they obviously chose not all too and and obviously that means they wanted to de-escalate any kind of coming confrontation but there are a lot of steps there. You're shooting wide. Your warning the troops they can all get into hardened bunkers it seems like Iran took a lot of intentional steps to send a very clear signal We're not looking for this kind of trouble right now. But but also they didn't do it through proxies. It was an Iranian government attack in the New York. Times had a fascinating piece about Iot Ola Khameini. Apparently he doesn't go to that National Security Council meetings very often. Somebody came in and said you know we are going to respond not all proxies you know this has to be offset has to be clearly so I mean we're the conflict because not over awful. The conflicts being going on for decades between the United States and Iran and we just had a press conference by Secretary of State Pompeo and Treasury Secretary Mnuchin where they announced new sanctions Johnson. Now it's hard to imagine how a country could be more sanctioned than Iran which has its economies in the tank because of the existing sanctions But the sanctioning additional individuals individuals and I guess that putting sanctions on steel and yeah we we understand steel and iron tariff sanctions against eight individuals. The some of the sanctions that were promised Mr President trump earlier in the week. Daniel Kurtz failing new sanctions now. We've been asking this question a lot this week and I think we have to keep asking new sanctions turns on and Iranian economy. That's already staggering under the weight of sanctions. What does this do to Iran's incentives? We've de-escalated this week. That's that's great. What about the incentives going forward in the days and weeks to come in the Persian Gulf? I think there's a sense of relief that we've gotten through this first round in a in a week or so. Oh since the killing of Sumani Without greater damage there were immediate fears. That there'd be some massive escalation and that has not happened as Peter pointed out. It's been it's been a relatively careful response. And there's some sense that we're returning to regularly scheduled programing in the region which is not exactly a positive dynamic it's it's the US sanctioning and already very sanctioned or on economy. It's Iran likely returning to the kind of Regional mischief-making that it is been up to for especially in the last year or so But it's unlikely to really change it that namic which highlights in some ways the strategic result of the strike while we've gotten through this week without catastrophe in some ways the US emerges from this in a worse position than it was in Even even a week ago the Iranians rather than being Protesting protesting against their own government. Do their own. Economic hardship are united against the United States. In a way. They haven't been for for a little. While you have the Iraqis trying to press the United States to leave Iraq and their summers with that will happen. which will be a cost the United States and then you have of course the announcement by the running government that would continue to Blow through some of the restrictions on its nuclear program and we should recall that all of this started over. Iran's nuclear program that's really the heart of the matter and and We are in no better shape there than we were a week ago and in some ways in worship well there are a range of voices coming out of Iran. Speaking to this very point about what what what. Iran Iran expects and wants from the coming weeks and months earlier this week. NPR's Mary Louise. Kelley spoke to Iran's Foreign Minister Mohammad. Javad Zarif it's is an act of terrorism. An Act of war violated territorial integrity and sovereignty of Iraq and that is why Iraqis decided to kick them out it. It hurt the feeding many people across it on and the rest up toward that is why I say the days of the United States in our region our number Daniels arief wants a Middle East with no. US soldiers in it. That's his dream for Iraq. Is he going to get that wish anytime soon. In some ways Donald Trump might have the same dream. You know there's been a strange INCOHERENCE or tension in his policy on the one hand he wants to look tough. Wants to show that he was tougher. That than Barack Obama but on the other hand he has said again and again that he does not want endless wars so something like a withdrawal from Iraq. Mahan some ways suit both the interests of the Iranian government and of Donald Trump. Who I imagine would like to go into this upcoming presidential campaign able to say that he has not not started? New Wars in fact ended The endless wars in the region but the question of whether we can get back to some kind of deal of course when when trump spoke on Wednesday he talked about wanting peace with Iran. And there's very little reason to see why Iran would enter into a new negotiating with negotiation with the United States. Right now the dynamic is is is is really not looking good on that score. Kevin writes Twitter was buzzing with speculation. That Iran was on hair trigger alert because conservative pundits. Like Sean Hannity were spreading false information especially that American B fifty two bombers were on their way to the Persian Gulf Let's get a fact check. Peter do you know anything about that Iranian calculus or whether they were worried about rhetoric that was coming from Fox News. I have no idea But just picking up on what you in Daniel discussing. I mean the the Iraqi prime minister already told Secretary of State Pompeii or a his office that they should start preparing the discussions about the the US troop withdrawal Now you know one of the big themes that trump had during the campaign was The the the effects that the December two two thousand eleven troop withdrawal from Iraq and Obama and kind of basically that was a wrong decision which led to Isis? And so I mean it yes yes. It may be in trump's kind of interest in some ways to pull out of Iraq but also it would kind of undercut a key theme that he's made which is you know he's the guy who defeated defeated Isis. And he kind of set the conditions for that so you know. Let's see but I mean I I think that Withdrawal of American troops in Iraq is highly likely Grand Ayatollah Donnie. Johny who's really the most important political figure in Iraq Even before the strike against the Lamont said that the early strikes against targets in Iraq walk were a violation of Iraqi sovereignty. And I think that that that is a very big message now. Speaking of US troops leaving Iraq heads were spinning in Washington. When a memo came out of the Pentagon this week suggesting that American troops were already on the move that they might be leaving Iraq they might be headed toward Kuwait that they were redeploying up? Peter Your book is all about chaos and how it affects president trump and his foreign policy I saw this. We're news. That happened for a couple of minutes this week. Confusion and big mistakes made at the Pentagon and it made me think of you and the thesis of Your Book. Yeah yeah well I mean this may be somebody getting ahead of skis and the the you know the ladder wasn't signed an wasn't an official communication in the Pentagon and was pretty quick to come out and say it wasn't it wasn't an official communication But I I I do think it is interesting that the concert characters in my book generals that surrounded President Trump in the past two years of his administration had great experience in the Middle East and great experience in conducting walls And the people that he he has around him now A lot of them have almost no experience in the Middle East. Turn our don't have the clout All the experience to really kind of counter the president is it and so when the Solar Mani decision was made I very much doubt that there was a here. The fifty seven different things. That can happen if you do that. It was more of a you know got cool by the President and was it a bold move or a reckless gamble I think we're beginning to see more of the latter. Because you know ultimately I think we do want a presence in Iraq of some kind of to prevent isis coming back to have some leverage in the region And and you know that it doesn't have to be a large presence but I think it's getting thrown out doesn't help American interests at the same time. Peter I WANNA point out. We heard very little from Israel within the last week except the statement is effectively saying we had nothing to do with this and we want no part of it. I would have thought maybe if you had asked me a week and a half ago the the Likud government of Israel might cheer cheerlead at an attack like this and they really didn't yeah interesting observation. I mean obviously Israel has its own political problems right now You know at the end of the day Uh they They're going to go along for the ride. Whatever the United States the world's superpower dose of they may just felt there was no upside in taking a public position the the events in Iraq? This past week gentleman prompted this renewed debate over here over war powers and the president what powers he has when it comes to the use the force on Thursday on this show I spoke to Democratic Virginia senator. Tim Kaine a Tim. Kaine for years has been pounding the table on Congress's squandering of it's it's war powers and here's what he told me. I think congress is chicken basically A war vote is really hard had to cast to and the foreign relations committees. And I I realized as a guy who's cast votes is a senator in a city councilman. This is much harder than anybody. I've ever cast a child in the military Daniel. The House House has voted to restrain president trump and future war actions with Iran. The Senate will see This definitely matters to lawmakers. Of course what about the rest us. Why is this an important debate? What has been so striking about the last couple of decades ever since nine eleven is how many things the US military has done in the world old how many Different fights his With really very little debate in Congress very little public scrutiny from from our representatives in Congress Congress very little real consideration of each one of those acts and what you saw from house Democrats on Thursday was an attempt on the one hand to To try to reverse that to try to make at least symbolic stand against the president being able to go to war or take take an act of war without going and consulting with Congress I but it also released served highlight just how Just how much Congress's powers on this have been eviscerated over the last the last few decades in some ways it's because Congress. This is giving them away as as Tim Kaine allude to in some cases that's because the White House under Both parties has really tried to claim these powers for itself. So it's unlikely that even with Democratic Unity On these powers issues. It's really going to do much to constrain the president from taking moves that he wants. What's even more true at a time when there's any number of ways that this could spiral out of control on the ground we haven't talked much about the the Ukrainian Airlines flight yesterday. But that's just really a tragic kotor to this to this This round Andrew Reminder that when the region's on hair trigger alert and you have crews on the ground around with surface to air missiles. Anything can go wrong very very quickly. And if you imagine what that would have happened if that had been A. US airplane you can imagine things getting bad very quickly without Congress having much of an ability to do anything. Well it's very very interesting. David that plane crash or shoot down just outside of Toronto Airport a lot of people have pointed to at least a series of circumstantial facts that you just mentioned. It's impossible to know what would or would not have happened but for but they are in a high threat environment there in Tehran right now and what is also true. Is that a passenger jet. With two hundred and seventy souls aboard appears appears to have been shot down. That's right and it's you know in some ways. It's kind of nightmarish mash. Up of all the grunt stories of twenty nineteen Come back to Greece in the New Year. The fact you have Ukraine Iran and Boeing all wrapped into one story is kind of particularly grim. But it also really is a reminder of of just what it means for all these forces in a very complicated region to be on this kind of alert that could spin out of control very very quickly. One hundred seventy six people aboard the Ukrainian jet I should say The Prime Minister of Canada Justin Trudeau was paying tribute to sixty three Canadians. killed aboard. That jet He said that all evidence suggests that the plane had been brought down by Iranian surface to air missile. This new information reinforces the need for thorough investigation into this matter. Canada is working with its allies to ensure that a thorough and credible investigation is conducted to determine the causes of this fatal crash. As I said yesterday Canadians have questions. And they deserve answers. Peter if it does turn out to be confirmed that indeed. A passenger jet was shot down over Tehran by Iranian surface to air missile. What what then well right now? The Iran's a denying it but that that denial seem highly implausible. Because all comes razor can be employed meaning the simplest explanation of anything anything is often the actual explanation and when the Iranians were on high alert and Misao goes off which brings down a commercial airliner. it's it's reminiscent a little bit of the of the. US has been sends bringing down in Iranian passenger plane and killing Almost three hundred people on board in nineteen eighty eight. It was a mistake. The United States government Eventually admitted was a mistake and provide compensation one hopes that the Iranians will Come to that conclusion because clearly other explanations don't seem very plausible. Steve tweets this. I'm curious to hear about the panel's thoughts about reports. That secretary pompeo himself pushed trump hard hard on Sulejmani killing. Does that seem plausible to you. Peter that the that the pressure on the president who is not does not have a career studying Middle Eastern political. Medical Affairs was pushed hard by his secretary of State to get tough on around one hundred percent. I mean if you look at the you know the K. The composition of the Cabinet Pompeo is really kind of the lost capone a pump. Ao and to some degree Mnuchin to the sort of survivors here And POMPEO has a close relationship with the president. He said publicly a last year that God had I put trump on that it is quite possible. Go to put trump on the off to save Israel from Iran A So he's you know he's a hardcore kind of Christian fundamentalists who really early believes these things And and has had a bee in his bonnet about Iran and Solo. Mainly for apparently a long time Daniel it hasn't escaped the attention of a lot of people that the administration's justification for the strike on Costume Sulamani imminent threat that the threat was imminent. He was planning attacks. Tax On. Americans relies on information from the intelligence services the intelligence community and Mark writes. I'm wondering if this imminent danger to the. US was was discovered by the very same intelligence agency. That president trump has basically called inept and worse. It is the same intelligence agency. Is it harder. Her for the administration to sell the United States even sell the world on the idea of imminent threat after the president has gone after his own intelligence officials in the way that he has. It's a it's a really great point and it was striking that even Republican Senator Mike Lee After hearing a briefing from senior administration representatives about the intelligence came out and said it was one of the worst briefings. He'd ever heard what this what this reminds us is that Donald Trump's credibility is low both with Americans and with the world when it comes to these kinds of these kinds of statements and especially so because he has spent so much time disparaging the intelligence analysts that he Who whose authority? He wants is to invoke. Now he spent so much time disparaging the allies who is now calling on to do more to help us in the Middle East and he spent so much time Disparaging the the The kinds of expertise that would normally would normally provide good policy making process in this time. You know he talks about the deep state. The deep state is really the people who make sure sure that Letters are unsigned. Don't go out to you know. Go back to what Peter was was referring to the letter about the withdrawal from Iraq. I would also just add on Pompeo. Heo It's notable that Mike pump hair really came to prominence talking about Benghazi about the attack on a US compound in Benghazi and when he saw A similar breach reach of a an US compound in Baghdad by iranian-backed forces that really became kind of triggering thing for secretary pompeo and it was hard for him Not to respond. Given how much prominence he'd given to the Benghazi issue just a few years ago. It became a campaign for him. You might say I want to check in on a story that has has been under reported in our American press but very important. Three Americans were killed on Sunday in Kenya. The terrorist organization al-shabaab says it was responsible for the deaths of one. US servicemen and two contractors with the US Department of Defense. The latest attack comes just over a week after al-shabaab truck bomb in Somalia Amalia killed at least seventy nine people. Peter this is the first direct attack by al-shabaab on US personnel and it makes me wonder why now I mean I. It's hard for me to wants to that but I think I think that The story would have got a lot more play absent. You know the drama around Iran impeachment Go back to the story where you had. Four American Special Forces killed a lot of Americans was sort of surprised that we had. US forces in as you're probably a lot of Americans surprise we have US forces in Kenya So I think it got kind of There was such a lot of coverage of other stories In Ah in a normal news cycle this would have a lot more attention al-shabaab of course is You know it's it's it's been affiliated with al-Qaeda there's a a part of it this but often affiliated with Isis so why why they would attack Americans easier you know. These groups are anti American as part of that sort of DNA. Dan You contrast the reaction Shen to Benghazi any incursion there with the reaction to an incursion in Baghdad just a couple of weeks ago the contrast stands out and sodas another one American was killed by an attack in Iraq and the US responded with deadly force. That's just in this past week or two so far we've seen no such response here in Kenya where. US servicemen and two contractors were killed by a terrorist group. Yeah it's it's a really great point and the fact that this has gone on so little coverage is in some ways indicative of how much a certain issues tend to swallow Oliver attention in the trump era. The this this comes in the the context of A couple of important policy moves in debates on these issues in on the region. The first is that the trump administration really has ramped up strikes al-shabaab bob in Somalia. So even as we pay attention to events elsewhere there's been A real escalation in drone strikes on this group. So there's this is yet another American war that we're not paying attention to this also comes in the context of a debate about whether to withdraw. US forces from Africa March number whether we should be paying more attention to threats like Russia and China and focusing our our military resources there. This attack is a reminder of wide United States has gotten stuck in these places for so long and might remind us of another fact that has been on my mind quite a lot. Lately that overall drone strikes places like Somalia Yemen Syria Afghanistan Pakistan Iraq under president. Trump are up significantly only from what they were during President Obama's presidency up until now President Obama was a singled out and rightfully so for relying on the drone wars The president trump has done more. There are more drone attacks under this president than before worth remembering and worth remembering when news like Kenya comes up and we don't pay much attention action to it I WANNA take to Australia because there is a continuation of devastating news from Australia. Australia is still burning burning. Twenty seven people have died since those fires began in late summer and more than a billion animals have likely been killed according to a recent estimate from the university diversity of Sydney The United States has now sent firefighters to help as nearly eighteen million acres of Australia have burned We're seeing terrible images out of Australia. Peter Blood red skies overwhelming smoke even Kangaroos huddling on suburban lawns seeking refuge wjr from the flames and their normal habitat. What do we know about these extreme fires? A lot of people are linking them directly to climate change including President Barack Obama it. It makes sense that that conversation tales right on coverage of the actual destruction in Australia. What do we know? Well the FIS are now. One one point five million acres inside in size and sort of individual files of kind of linked up into one beggar FAI Two Thousand Nineteen hottest year record in Australia so Actually has something to do with. Climate changes has become a political issue in in Canada because Sutton MP's and on and on the even of the Prime Minister's own party. I've kind of suggested that this is Rina. Climate change is more about the accumulation of fuel in Fars Province than some SYS systematic problem. That has You know kind of it's GonNa Affect Australia going forward Craig Kelly whose an MP in in in in Australia Attracted a fair amount of attention when he suggested suggested that this wasn't really linked to climate change And there was outrage that Morrison the Prime Minister would go to Hawaii on vacation in the middle of all this So it's become a politically very charged issue in Australia. Dan Do you think this changes the conversation at all. Many Australians might be more convinced now of the direct and imminent perils of climate change now that their countries on fire statements like this from their politicians Seem shocking yeah I it. Some ways serves to highlight. How polarized in how How partisan the climate change issue has become not just in the United States is but globally on the one hand things like fires and floods and increased hurricanes seem to provide very very vivid evidence of the effects of climate change which for longtime have been sort of uh-huh abstract and far off? We're suddenly seeing them in in our day to day lives in very Tragic and horrific form. It's not that any one of these events necessarily caused directly by climate change but the likelihood of them and the severity grows. So you see that on the one hand on the other hand in the politics of this have become in some ways worse than they were ten or fifteen years ago with parties in Australia in the United States splitting entirely on how to interpret these events and internationally. It's it's worth noting saying that Just last month there was a failed. UN Climate Summit in Madrid. And so for all the the focus on these fires for all the kind of vivid and terrible terrible toll that we see on TV or in photographs There's really been very very little in terms of international action to address the root cause of climate and yet Dan fires of this magnitude Might serve to be one of the best warnings about climate change because climate scientists. Tell us no no. No specific weather event can be connected to climate change but fires are directly connected to temperature the hotter it gets the hotter fires burn the longer fire season. He's in is. We've already been warned. There is no longer a fire season in California. It's fires all the time and there's a reason for that that's that's right at that is the that is certainly the correct interpretation but The the political debate seems to contest that in ways that don't lead to great hope at least in my mind signed for a serious political action at the national and international level which means it falls much more to individual communities to local governments state governments and and And the private sector to really address. Peter I'm sure that that's correct on the other hand. This event in Australia is not a local event. It's not a state event. It is a national tragedy tragedy and a national emergency. It's huge does that potentially have any crystallizing effect. I'M GONNA agree with Daniel People's kind kind of positions on this a so entrenched United States is out of the Paris climate agreement. President trump had choice on that he could have said. I didn't believe in the science around this but I do believe it's happening and we should. I'm a builder and we can create infrastructure in places like Palm Beach and Manhattan where I have houses to prevent the effects of climate tation in these places he hasn't here's breaking news From about half a billion light years away this week. Astronomers in Europe pinpointed wanted the location of mysterious radio signals called. FRB's that stands for fast radio bursts. This is only the second time that scientists have determined the precise location of these radio waves coming from space. Now only this time these F. Arby's are thought to come from a galaxy that seven times closer than the only other repeating burst I that we've ever detected or localized now. Scientists still don't know where these mysterious repeating bursts come from guesses include things like black holes giant solar flares flares even aliens sending messages. We don't know but let me say this boom science. Well let's go to London. Let's go to England the Duke and Duchess of Sussex otherwise known as Harry Windsor and Meghan. Markle they dropped a bombshell this week. The the Sussex's said they planned to take a step back from their roles as senior royals and move towards financial independence while Harry did alert his father Father Prince Charles of these plans reports suggested the Queen and the rest of the royal house were not consulted before those plans went public. The couple were married in two thousand eighteen. They have have one son. His name is archie and right now archie great grandmother. She is not amused on the line from London. Is the BBC's royal correspondent Jonny any diamond. Johnny thanks for being here. My pleasure talk good to talk Johnny the Her Majesty. The Queen is not amused. We'll get to why. What exactly are Harry and Meghan the Duke and Duchess of Sussex trying to do here? Were I think exactly is the problem. It's very difficult to know what exactly they want. But a bit more Hazel they want to in their own phrase. Step back from being senior royals and instead kind of create a hybrid rid position. where part of the time? They are leading their own. Independent lives unmolested as they would sit by the intrusions of the media and and where they're able to take jobs tape professions and as they say work towards financial independence and still remain. Part of the Royal Family Carry Out Royal Oh. DT's and be do you conduct S.'s. But under their own terms it seems to their own satisfaction rather than within the more tightly controlled system of the royal firm. Johnny I have to say if we're being honest are unrelenting interest in the Royal Family is period. It's certainly celebrity driven. And that's part of this story but at the same time what they are trying to do do it does have substantive concerns in England in the UK. Does it not. I mean they're actually might be something wrong with this from the view of the Royal Family and people who support them. I mean what they're doing is overturning. The theory of hereditary obligation that when you are born into the royal family a a deal is struck at the moment of your birth that you will receive you know relative luxury and then exchange for that you will serve and he you will carry out duties and that is by birth You Dave really have any choice in that and Harry and Meghan but I think primarily the Harry perhaps assisted by Megan are saying we want another model. We don't want that automatic requirement and to be royals to be royal and to carry out that life. We want something else. Yeah it's a big deal it strikes at the heart of the Bergen. The deal feel the contract the situation that you have when you have a hereditary monarchy dave rights they have millions in the bank courtesy of the British taxpayer. They are hugely marketable. Let's face it retired retired thirty-five from anything even resembling a real job. Maybe millions in the bank Johnny but how does a royal how do Vigo about being financially independent. I mean good on them they WANNA make their own way. That sounds great. Is that complicated when you're a royal. Yeah it's really early complicated. I mean and that's why is essentially serving. Royals do not take private jobs because as soon as they do if they do they open themselves up up to charges of conflicts of interest of monetize in the royal family of exploiting the brand. It's exceptionally difficult. Yes of course they are hugely ageless high-profile figures. They have astonishing sort of poll power influences. They are top Brang but are they really going to start wearing a special kind of watch when they go out and then gently advertise that on their social media and make money through that. What happens if they're wearing the same watch when they're doing royalties? It very very quickly starts to corrupt the institution and this is the stuff they have to work out. This is the stuff that the palace and the household which which are now ranged on different sides have to work out and how are they going to liaise with each other the palace and the new court this court which we think will be set up split between the UK and they say North America. Most people seem to understand Canada as that. So it's really really complicated. It wasn't helped originally originally by the way this announcement was made and daming correct you but Prince Charles got ten minutes warning. I mean now there's been some conversations very very early conversations the palace tells me About a future row but otherwise nothing and then ten minutes beforehand being is into his inbox. Ams the statement and no conversation no consultation tation no word with the Queen and when the being bombed over London there will has a response from Buckingham Palace that was that was unmistakably equally. Kurt basically they were. I'm paraphrasing but it basically said This is more complicated than they think. And and none of this has been settled. It was about a two line statement. I spoke with an Mckelvey your colleague of the Economist before we came on the air and and she was adamant that these these two warring factions. Who Happen to be Buckingham Palace? The Queen and her grandson the The the Duke of Sussex need to find some way forward. They can't simply carry on in this war of sort of water coming from Queen Elizabeth team and a slightly up on instagram coming from the Sussex is it might be satisfactory in the short term. It makes clear that each have their interests but they won't be able to do business like this wanting the firm has to do it has to keep doing seeing the royal business. It's what is there for the firm and yet Johnny. I don't think anyone is going to convince. Prince Harry to be okay with the British tabloid the press involved intimately in his life in Megan's life especially given his personal history with the media. Intrusion is is part of this. What the the Duke and duchess intrusion the other royals have learned to live with? It's partly that it's also. The Harry is visibly bored by the ceremonial aspects of the job. And I've I've spent a fair amount of time traveling with him and you know he's sitting there just he can hide it and he doesn't see why he should and he's growing up is sir early Middle Age. He's got a kid he's starting to think I've got all the things I'd like to be doing rather than you know. Paying visits to South Pacific islands or whatever it is so it's not just the Meteo that is a big part of it now your bigger point the palace and the household now need to sort things out. Yeah they do they need they do need. See but don't underestimate how difficult this is Harry and Meghan. WHO said we want to do something different? We want to do it under our rules and we want to do with our people and we want to do it at a distance that may or may not be possible. It may be that they end up actually having to leave the royal family entirely alley because it's too difficult to make this new relationship work that having been said I was having a chat with someone from the palace earlier today. He said let we have struggled over the last thirty forty years with what to do with the people who are not in line to the throne this at the brothers of of of the people in line to the the throne and the sisters of it and it's been a real challenge. That's been a real problem and now we have a chance to try it sorted out. They just sorting out on a pretty high time pressure and in a very high a profile way so they they may struggle. We'll see this may have been a missed opportunity. I mean if that problem is a problem for the royal household they may have had a proof of concept that could have really really worked for them except it seems like Harry and Meghan may have forced their hand. Johnny I I gotTa let you go but no but I've got a question for you before you go. Look from this American I got a paraphrase Boroughmuir Gondar from Lord of the Rings and say that America has no king. America needs no king nor where Queen and yet we are so very obsessed with everything. This family does why why. It's a fairytale sorry tale. I mean it's great. It's got kings and Queens and princes and rules an act queries. It's not important but it's interesting. It's fun I I always say that. They are like a government department dedicated to fun or good times or just escapism. It's just something something different. It's it's quite nice to do everything else. Seems difficult to think about something. Fantastical Melinda writes. Why not advocate this? Half in half approach puts them open to criticism from tax payers. They could support charities the monarchy and anything else important to them as private citizens albeit very rich and famous private citizens since and last word to Yolanda who writes everyone wants to come after Meghan as Harry has an always wanted out and ben controversial Johnny Diamond. BBC ABC royal correspondent. John Your guidance means a great deal to me at a moment like this. Thank you so much blood. It's been a real pleasure. Have a good all right there. Johnny diamond of the BBC You two the gentleman who are left with me Peter Bergen and Daniel Kurtz Falen. I want to take the remainder of the time that we have together to get inside your heads a little bit about stories. We're not paying attention to that. We should be things that you're working on things that you're thinking about Peter. You are looking at me in a very thankful way that I did not subject you to the story about the succes of England. So since I excused you from that indulge me on this on what what stories are on your mind. That are important that we're not thinking. Well you know a story often mind. My I was in Afghanistan last month and The war obviously hasn't gone away the situation there is pretty bad. I mean I've been visiting in philosophy and a half decades and This is probably the worst situation. That's been in since nine eleven as a Western reporter you can only really travel by car And you you have to be pretty careful about kind of what you do in terms of being out in the streets And you know the war continues. What's interesting to me told us that? president trump has kind of at the same place. That President Obama was on Afghanistan at the end of his Second time which is the up there about the same number of troops a little over eight thousand in both cases is There is sort of discussions about talking to the Taliban which have gone back and forth It seems that President Trump you uh other in the show you're talking about The use of drones and the use of You know so many commonalities between trump and Obama once you strip away the rhetoric in times of the way they treated these wars on Tara using basically drones special operations forces cyber warfare an not be conventional forces. But it's interesting to me that that trump is kind of in the same place. At Obama Obama was in terms of the decision making around Afghanistan. Because as I documented my new book General Dunford. who was on the chairman of the Joint Chiefs said You know the only basically you staying staying in Afghanistan is like life insurance. You know No one wants to pay life insurance but You do it because it's you know not not smart not to and You know basically We the only thing worse than leaving Afghanistan. The thing wasn't staying Afghanistan's leaving precipitously and having kind of collapsing Kale's So anyway so. The Afghan story goes on. It's the longest war in American history And it hasn't gone away. Dan Kurtz fail and I had the same question for you Stories stories that you're thinking about that you think we should pay more attention to or things that are in your notebook so I think that the souring relationship the United States and China will continue to be one of the most important stories this year. We're likely to see some kind of trade deal next week. A fix owns the so-called phase. One trade deal which may end the kind of tit for tat tariff or that's dominated headlines and over the last year but that really just leads to the bigger question about what kind of relationship the United States and China are going to have. And I think we're GONNA see in the presidential campaign that there is a fair amount of bipartisan consensus. On the tougher approach to China that Donald Trump has really has really started. Democrats are going to say is not that we should not be as tough on China China but that we should be smarter about it. So it'll be a debate about the how rather than the what and there's so many big questions that are really going to be at play in in ways that have consequences for decades ahead on the economic relationship to security issues. You know the question of how and whether we can cooperate on global issues like climate change the. US and China are the the two biggest economies in the world. The two biggest Carbon emitters if we can't get together to Establish tablet some kind of cooperation on climate. Change it's very very unlikely that the world is going to do much about it so all of that is going to play out over the coming years or over the course of this year and how that goes both in the presidential campaign and more broadly is going to have consequences that go beyond So much of what we talk about day to day it seems fitting that we've we've spent the first several days of twenty twenty consumed with events in the Middle East in some ways the big story of US foreign policy over the past twenty years or so is is the United States being distracted by Military action and a caddock Middle East China rises and The first week of twenty twenty has been a vivid demonstration of that appear appear. You and I spoke a little bit about China last week. And increasing American naval activity. Trying to pare back China in the South China season their ambitions but to Dan's point before or we go. Do you think there is enough. Common interest potentially between the United States in China that this inevitably adversarial relationship could at least have a common vision. That doesn't lead to conflict. I mean we want their markets. They love our stuff Maybe that's enough to keep people getting along well. The trump construction has daniel knows Bevan moments. Anybody has taken a much more. Skeptical Approach To China and I think appropriately so more freedom of navigation exercises that you you mentioned told him the South China Sea and you know the real question is does trying to have a monroe doctrine for Asia the basically which is they want us out Or do they have bigger ambitions bishop and I think you know to become displays us as the world superpower and it's probably not to them It's not clear to us These things can be managed often. They don't end well. It was managed between the British and the United States. When Britain was the dominant power United States was the rising power but in general Often this needs to conflict My thanks for for now. Go to Daniel Kurtz Valen executive editor Foreign Affairs Daniels. Always great to have you. Thanks for joining us. Thanks so much and Peter Bergen. CNN's national security analyst author of trump and his generals the cost of chaos. Thank you so much earlier on Johnny Diamond BBC's royal correspondent who walked us through the the makes makes it. I think we're calling it the exit of the Duke and Duchess of Sussex also in mckelway from the economist who joined us from across the pond. This podcast was produced by Matthew Simonsen. One as senior producers are page Osborne and Danielle night. This program as always comes to you from W. Amu part of American University in Washington. It's it's distributed by NPR. I'm todd's will enjoy your weekend. Follow those royals. Thank you so much for listening. This is one A..

president Congress David Lightman President Trump Senate David Gura Iran Speaker Pelosi Democrats Molly national political corresponde US Molly Ball Shen David mcclatchy Senator Bernie Sanders senator
043: Using Journaling and Art to Deepen Your Relationship With Lisa Brown

LifePix Relationships With ST

15:47 min | 3 months ago

043: Using Journaling and Art to Deepen Your Relationship With Lisa Brown

"Hey guys. It's Sti your host of Life podcast where people with all sorts of backgrounds challenges a life experience show us how they make their relationship extraordinary. Okay have you ordered the genius relationships online course yet? If yet, I gotta hear how it's going because I know you have great news and I want to hear it if not, you're missing out, go right now to gyms relationships dot com to reserve your slot and take your relationship to the next level to day. Hick is today I'm really excited 'cause here with my supervisor Lisa Brown. From the creative journal Expressive Arts Training that I'm currently, and for those of you been listening for long enough to know that I work with journaling an art with the non dominant hand, the CGI method created by Dr Lucia capital. Kiani. Who created this method while she was chronically ill healed herself and now has written twenty three books on it everything having to do with both sides of. The brain journaling and are and what it does. It's really cool. Change my life, and now I am doing it with others solely stop. I'm so glad you're here you wanNA tell us a bit about yourself, what you do and got involved in this work. So I had a degree in teaching art and a master's degree in creative arts and I took the Lucia's training in nineteen ninety. Nine. So I graduated in two thousand and I've been working with her techniques since then incorporated into art projects in our yard that I do, and basically it does is a new ask questions with your dominant hand. Any answer with your non hand entranceway you're tapping into both sides of the brain and you get a chance to do that. Also when you are recap, both sides of. Out that's what we're trying to do is get a little unconscious information from ourselves. Yeah I love that part you get to access your subconscious brain and just think of things that you never thought of before that we're really there the whole time and the way it works is that there's two parts of the brain the right side of the brands of the brain. We all know the right side of the brain is in charge of the left side of the body and the left side of the brain is in charge of the right side of the body. Male the left side of a brain is in charge of all the logical stuff math reading writing etc, and the right side of the brain is in charge of all the creative stuff our Jarama. It's in charge of the emotions. So when you're writing with your non dominant hand, you have straight access to a your emotions. Plus you're making new norm connections and that automatically you to think of things that you've never thought of before. So could you tell us how a couple could use this method starting today even without knowing much about it so that weight the could understand each other better and connect with each other on a deeper level. So one would. Think about first of all, how you received some people are touchy feely people they like to be touched. Some people would rather have a gift. Some people would rather have affirmation that you or something like that, and so first of all, they need to speak for themselves, what do I relied? So what I would do have the each person has been in the white girlfriend themselves answer some of those questions had they like to receive lab would they rather have a hug or note would they rather be alone their partner or yet help with something they're struggling with? Some questions out in I have I have a lot of busters also in different places but just to think about. How you prefer to know that you're one loves you what is the easiest way and for me it's very hard right now because I'm huggy person, luckily Maslin this year but my girlfriend's at grants I always give them have on has really hard time in the not doing that but I'm you have your own lists what I usually recommend that is to go through magazines, pictures of what would make you feel about just images of anybody in words and phrases for yourself, and then when you're done with that, you would do some journaling pieces. which incorporate mark, which is asking questions about the pictures. You don't really understand an answering three dollars just to make that clear when you're doing the collage, you're just looking through anything that could possibly anything bring you love. Even if you're not sure why you're what made you pull out that paper, we just rip it all out. You laid out a clause and then he do the journaling right and once once you start the journey, the pictures you WanNa ask about I, the words that you don't know why you put that. There are the words that you don't know why you might say why why is that girl hugging that Teddy Bear where does that me and let your? Non Dominant him answer. It's very interested in Goodson really quick incites. Let's just explain it for the people who don't know much about this. First of all the non dominant hand by definition in this method is the hand you don't usually use to write with. So even if you use both hands many times for different things, the hand that you usually right with dominant and the other hand is your non dominant. Now, when you're asking the questions, you're using your dominant hand because you're thinking logically when you're answering the questions, you're using your non dominant hand and you're not thinking you're letting your subconscious mind do the work and it works it works with left-handed people people ask this question. With left-handed people because when left-handed people start writing in school even if they're writing their name assiduously start doing schoolwork, it's gotta be logical that comes from outside of break. Therefore, the right side is GonNa be the intuitive side, which is the one we wanna tap into when we get to these questions, the answers for this question, right? Right correct and so when you both done when both husband and wife are Downer boyfriend and Girlfriend than you would look for each other's you'd be able to understand why may be a hugged really help somebody as much as maybe they need an affirmation something something Nice said to them or do something for them that they don't expect I like surprises my husband now offense about surprises he he's not a surprise I have to tell him I like surprises busy ever make you surprise parties he did wants because I Wasn't even a surprise because he knew it was happening. I didn't know Zachary by the new some of it, but anyway, I think once you understand what you need and what your partner needs than. You can actually make much better together especially why you're here together all the time in the same house trying to enjoy. Killing each other, right. Yeah and it's important to know those things it despite yourself in everyone's ask for. New can ask for you know what you need but once you've done mcclatchy, can despite you you have the conversation about a open the space so it's easier to ask for it. So you WANNA. Give us some suggested questions. Maybe the person could do the Journal, the Journal and they're looking at pictures. So they might say, well, why does it say why does it have a picture of a beach and then it might answer that it wants to. Go to the beach likes to be at the beach, and so then you know it's another thing to know about that person if you can't be at each now you could make a beach in your living room. You know get up the heat, put out some towels lay down in L. get a book retender you're at the beach and just you know do some things that would make you bring you joy is that's the most important part you. Joyful, in your togetherness. Found really helpful is if you get stuck with writing with your non dominant hand, is star answering the question by repeating the question. So let's see your question was why are you here? You answer I m here because this way it starts setting your brain in that motor start that side of the brain in easier to come up with an answer number you're not thinking you're just activating your subconscious mind. You can always ask more questions like it sometimes it's real obvious. You know it's a picture of. A. Two hands holding you might it might be obvious to you consciously why that pictures there. But if you ask what you're not with your dominated new answer with your non dominant Emesa, say nothing totally differently I want him to hold hands with me outside the house. Yeah. Yeah. Gives a different feeling. Exactly. Do you have any interesting stories of what happened with while journaling while I think it's really interesting when you have a marriage that's even law along marriage like at the near thirty one years, plaza. just in the find out. Oh, suddenly like I get it. Now I understand why you know I can hook him. It's fine. The fact that why doesn't do that? He doesn't think to do that to me I instead of being angry at him for not thinking about mental now that he does is not what he thinks and so I think when you ask. Originally. When you sit down to think about the way you receive lobby might make that if somebody do I like it better. If they do something that I really am startling with or do I like it when they just give me praise for something, I'm trying to do or you know there's all kinds of things that go through in your life just. Think about what kind of things you what experiences you have you know say what I'd rather have him take out the garbage or watch a TV show with me or your things like that. Think about all those things that you do together and separately in which ones would be more important to you think that many people know the concept of the five love. Languages but doing this gives them first of all, much better understanding of why they like certain things better and second, very specific like even if you like touch maybe you like a specific type of touch versus other people. So if you know what you want and how you want it and you could be more clear about and communicate about it and actually get. An also, when he's half year when you have a collage of what you like, you may understand why some people irritate you because they do things to you that you don't like and so you can also include inadequate you want to a second piece say I don't like when people get too close. Am I don't know that you know are like these things. You could write those down to unpack about that together that gives some insight because sometimes you don't like maybe your husband's friend and you don't know what can explain to them why and it may be just simply that it's near faces, catches you when you don't want to be touched now not committees such you Bromley but yeah, just. Like that maybe a physical person not that they're so it may also happy with all of your fender standard where you stand with them and why sometimes you know you get into a tiff over nothing because it's it's just you're looking at things differently. I think it's really helpful to do any exercise that we really look down your the owns get a chance to really into the unconscious in more depth will. Do ever journal with a mixture a few months later and get different answers or you do a whole nother collage. I like to do collages probably should. But. I do have a lot of home and sometimes I I'll be looking at. US. See a picture that I didn't talk to I might want to say why why is that? Now I didn't. My Life has changed in that fixture seven may means something different ATMs I've had. Friends that I want to help me in my business and I never really sometimes, I just let it go thinking. It's just GonNa happen but I really need to talk about what I want those funds to do. So I can find that I know besides for collages he do a lot of other are also yes, we. Educated senior my studio idea Pinky we've done Batik with this work we've done clay is my favorite thing, but it's hard to do at this time because people don't have clay you can make clay from lower ace facie clay, it will keep but you can. Very sticky. Varberg. Different texture. What you can do it at. Play on Amazon Amazon has been. We'll just call them monthly because lightly held back you'll get it eventually. But most of the classes I do I, do I try to do different media different times in depending on what their process is working on do that a lot of times use garage is just because everybody can do Kalash won't feel intimidated as much as they would with clay. Yeah. So what relationship advice would you give to someone who wants to make the relationship extraordinary? The first thing understand sometimes, people are in bad moods that has nothing to do with you and the understanding that sometimes that happens and a lot of times women are sat and they don't know exactly why and sometimes it's just spins hit them a certain way. You know sometimes you will your experience or babies learn something hits Sunday cry and so much. Journal without it basic journaling of drawing a picture with your non dominant, and then asking the picture of the question yet. Today unlike found lately, my girlfriend and I are doing some walking and we fund every once starts. As we can't have gender and say, hello, you know so. Connection Yeah, and the other thing is to. Find Your own hobbies don't try to be in the same hobby just because they are find a hobby that you like let them understand that that's important to you I like that because it gives you your own space in your own individuality in your relationship just because you're married to someone else earn relationship with someone else you don't become them you have your relationship and that's amazing anyone to flourish. But you are still your own person and you still need time to yourself. You need time that you can. You can unwind that is not involved with anybody really gets you know you get. That's that's where your freedoms. Are also, he would rather stick needles in this is. Really a huge studio like that doesn't come in ever. Never. Could you use the scrap of something? Do you want me to throw away or do you want an eye? That's? Yeah, you're really good with that using all sorts of things in your art. Creations and stuff. It's awesome using both sides of the brain. Yeah. Great. Thank you so much. Really. Lisa. It was awesome speaking to you and guys. Listen Up Lisa is doing this exact workshop workshop called love enhance. Four couples doing all sorts of journaling and our. Over you can do it from wherever you are this Thursday, September tenth at seven PM eastern standard time email her at least. So at Art Dash S Dash therapy dot com to reserve your slot see there because I'm going to be there to. Did you enjoy that episode. Personal fever and scribe and leave a review. It would mean a lot to me. Thank you so much and have an awesome and they.

Lisa Brown Journal partner Lucia Expressive Arts Training Hick Dr Lucia capital Jarama supervisor US Amazon Goodson Teddy Bear fever Downer mcclatchy Zachary Bromley Pinky
Episode 16: Colliding, Creating & Connecting with Leadership

IGeNIGHT Podcast

44:44 min | 1 year ago

Episode 16: Colliding, Creating & Connecting with Leadership

"Welcome to the Ignite Aka Gay Gals at night three sisters from the same Mr bringing together in media. Listen as we collide create and connect and At the sixteen of Ignite Paul cost to get guns at night three sisters same. It's an mother. uh-huh we hit to collide create connect all everything that is being as black women as mothers. His wife lives as business women as everything is benefiting in between a big hit to speak some life into a UH speak into situations. Oh Use your hobbies Betaine yesterday. He Vegas I golf as he ended his best lap in the house. It was say ten thirty eight five yesterday and it was just reading long weekend so I took Friday. unthought of work is also my best friend's birthday on the first of November so dilemmas always busy time for me but the thing is is not pay. Pay The Lord's by USA. It's November a number. I'm want he goes. He knows love. You went out to dinner. We went to a party and often party. An interesting thing of sleek is Kevin. Is everyone it was really a Then getting around these acts and stuff and I'm like to stay like you are the arm candy trading. Chafe course where you know you you know when you WANNA sideways start one important for it was cool and then Sunday we hung out. We check them and we'll watch believe in every once in a while which we love cinema cinema that's Myanamar. That's when it's just like a boutique. Yeah Yeah yes I can only do similar. I get behind me if my if my if my chair is not reclining and I've got do and people are seventy sued. I Dunno I just watch him a house well. All of us have cinema rooms but we offer that we also we don't hate me celebrate. Celebrate the much she said that will be in your houses Christmas. This weird strange. We is count to contain the LAS cruces the UK. Like it's been a long time. Even optic is that what we did for Christmas. I'm not looking ourselves. Jim Food we expect. Exactly how am I gonNA have room for the people but I'm trying to see if I can come over to London before Christmas. I at least doing the anything but the thing is I know we need to save money and sit down. That's the truth but also we've been invited to a couple of places so I'm trying signed to hold it down and like no. We're not going to go away because we're going to sit down and look at the Merry Christmas the four of us. Sometimes you just live the king if they will come into the foster cousens meantime so she's but I okay but you guys got married. You had key Christmas but basically you gave of Isis so the real. This is real a better way. I need to chat with you guys so you guys finally got me watching the Goblin the gray and lonely God. Why are we doing this now? Okay wait I'll take out now because okay so this is a this is okay drama you know that is all about the K dramas. And so this is one that is being made raving about. And I've just been going through a list of ones I've wanted to watch and I've just been like cute nights. Trying to broaden my horizon trying to do the drama Bill Jay Dramas but ultimately. I'M GONNA come back to the cameras. Say They are they are they are having the acting cinematography reading in a few years ahead. They just few years ahead. I'M NOT GONNA lie. I feel they've prescription envelope but anyway I finally watch this the Goblin the was it. The the the copy Goblet Governor Cooperaion Koppel K.. Georgia go dogs my anyway so I watched it and like you said from episode one. This is different but it moves and I sat down pretty much watched over by four days and it was really moving. But it's probably the way I feel my heart. Tom was such a traitor. Sad love that my heart ebbs and I'm like like like like you know when something lease a little impression annoying dislike made my night I was like. Oh so you're right now Oh yeah that's how I feel like the storyline was really interesting. I think the main guy was fire like I think he did sway with easy to AH grim reaper. Hello see you know the mcclatchy company. One year he's the read report ripon laser. Will you not GonNa do the grim reaper. You love him from Tire Commission Kitchen. Well Kim Kim. Yeah but this time. Can Jane like leave them anybody's name. He was these names. I liked him. I thought he's character was so tragic though that it was not hard the fact that he had to wait for any of you who he made him. It's actually quite quite shine. He comes close video shine identification. We started because I'm going to get my feelings about him. I saw his character made. My heart is so much I this is like this man is stuck in in mortality and he has to wait for his love to dislike be. It's the last time it's the winter is when she for this area sweater. Let's he watched it when she dies. I was at she like. What do I do now? He's crying beside when he cried. I cried back in the good cry. Like I'm not here for like for me when you can get me me with your motion. That's why don't give me credits make afraid like choking on your guttural that's gotten noxitril. He's got so I was like my heart is broken so it was just one of those like I loved it but it is left. You know he say something about Oh keep going back to watch them alone. I had to watch something shooting Eh. Just city I'm romancing something that we don't as wells. Welcome the music. The soundtrack is sick and black. Takes US say this so I'm going to see him so basically all the show. You here is Notes then if the hope who yeah who said that the one on the West Sarang gay is just because I just loved up with so much on Hilla Best Sawyer. I love. That was so much. There's a lot of that you. The is because so far of inquiry languages that it's similar sounds and and so am vows we have five fouls but that's apparently Niger's and Africans do really well with Asian language because all languages tonal as well so that apparently we actually should make because we don't speak Uraba if we were to speak Europe actually we would be able to hear the tones much better because the same word just like in Uraba mean different things depending on the emphasis in the tone so there. It was a moment that we have to go in. We have to go in. There was life but the theme. Okay so what. We have what we want to chat about. Dave I I guess I kind of kicked the conversation compensation and the Obama but we all kind of jumped into and is felt like this could be interesting topic as far as we're all we all work and we're all trying to just make stuff happen for ourselves in our craze as in my job I'm leading change initiative. I'm in a role that I'll be honest. Stephania stretches forest there's areas of growth for me personally and a lot of those areas around growth have to do with leadership wanting to being a leader being leader within my organization and I was working on something recently where I've been catching a bunch of career stories. If you like about leaders and we got to talking about just I guess just some different themes around leadership that would be really interesting for this podcast and so as far as the colliding creating and connecting we we. We have a really cool narrative around leadership and so we were like yes. We probably collide around leadership whether it be our own personal leadership whether it be examples the leadership that we've experienced we definitely create as far as things that we are trying to create for ourselves and then just in points of connection that I think we will have around. How we we want to move forward and keep and keep evolving and growing so leadership is going to be over rocking narrative for this for this podcast and so let's let's do it? Let's do it so far as examiners ship so badly ship as far as colliding. I think you've got something to say. No I I'll be honest and and I will have to forgive this Komo hard like it was it was trust and this is where I'm looking at Jim. TV So many moons ago. It was about so I worked for June to be two thousand four all to two thousand and eight and it was. It started off the four days ago so I thought would be while this is going to be a career defining moment like job like this epic and it wasn't too soon off. Uni Maybe you need. It was my job so I wanted to be journalists at the time is now one in Britain. Yes good morning. TV Now it's now it's changed hands and everything it stands for good morning Britain UK versions of like Iraq isn't soon and live magazine show. I'm already alive warning. Yes exactly it's it's features and celebrities and stuff like that at the time it was like as fast paced. It was exciting. I meant like like Louis Liberties me we had a chat will smith was like. Hey Look Smith Lavar he called me. TD said. Hey we'll be because we don't know it was that big job he was like you. You is your parents. Problem is like my talks for on TV One TV but for me to be on the epic epic epic but then there was a one year which actually caused me to leave. Not just because of my time is up as well but I had. It was just should ask the impossible. It was really you knows the live. TV show she'd want things after the commercial break is like Jimmy to go to the shop because three million commercial break. You know just really ridiculous things very when I was gonNA leave she just she said on purpose that a major life cinci because in the real world is really hard out there so you know let me kind of just but it was a special job in the sector that I wanted to work in after leaving. When you need by Ashi to do that for me why would you want to be like a many ways of doing that like you know? That's not the the bully bullying. She's the wrong book. That's not what that's about so you run boot guide nonsense out near the ruble and you just think to return to Liberia Maria. I mean she actually had the As a black woman as well this is how the world treats sauce you for good. All eighteen months is how you wanted to cheat me. Because you're saying that as a black woman this is how I wanted to show you that Yeah so that was probably my president. Had I taught I know so difficult because because in two thousand and four say what's what's really great now is that there's a lot more language and understanding around this stuff like gas lighting and talks about this and regressions while say we're back then they were. Just you're just you're just going to tell yourself in the mirror. What the hell was that and to me? What you taking so you that so you would teach me something? What did you want me to learn? Now What my mentor. Take one of the exactly. And that's the thing about the threat you because the whole piece of like. Oh this is the world is was there a follow up to be but so I wanted to teach you this actually his year. And here's as for haven't actually noticed that you did in terms of actually when it was really difficult. I'm I'm not sure resilient so on notice how by Bitch School Buddhism yes yesterday my ex is wanting to just. That was actually the feedback. Yeah he's I appreciate this. I did it. I didn't I didn't vast not how to get the best out. Somebody that doesn't that doesn't work with the meal. You and I don't appreciate that and I just said that you actually made you know 'cause I left when that you embark Obama was made So that was a Haifa me when he was princeton that was absolutely incredible. And I just say look what's going on the world right now. There's a black president look. I decided that. That's you did inspire. Hi Me I look to you. Some of the older. You had an really successful amazing career and now I don't see that new. I'm Shing Tao. I weighed went. Maybe she had the same treatment and maybe she thinks she's paying it forward but I think that's how you inspire the people you want to teach somebody it's like. Would you do that to your kids. Inside what age you will teach any asya how to survive in this world so you want to the great cheated it was bullying workplace bullying exactly you acquit people. You empower them you give them wings. They could fly. You don't beat them up clip clip their wings for they even start. Yeah exactly so that that to me is absolutely when it comes to what not to do when a leader absolutely and so I bet there was so much could have learned from She had had a head on. Correct would have been amazing but she just chose to give the side. Yeah I have to give this woman because I was Kinda around with me and and the thing is that would have been the difficult thing is is that let's be honest. We can go back in fact. Those two thousand and four women in senior positions in those spaces wouldn't have been prevalent so actually was one of the few and exactly you now and every time you have an experience you take it with you so you're next experience of a woman who's boss. You're not you'RE GONNA go into typically not. How do we think you know when you when you don't get a lot of those opportunities? It's an interactions and space for mentorship relations with women. It's thank you don't want to go into it with like a negative action next. What you're saying though is interesting this you know and this is kind of where I think we wanted to segue into? What does it mean to be a leader right? What is it what is your? What is your archetype? As far as being a leader what is the profile and an personality and performance at you want to give as a leader the fact that woman chose to see leadership as this kind of tyrannical bullying kind of persona. I think is really disappointing but I think to myself self when I think about awesome. What we're doing is leaders? I what do I want to be as a leader and who do I want to be. What is my definition of leadership? Because I do think I don't think it's the same for everybody. I think quite intimidating. Sometimes we try and model yourself entirely on somebody else. I think. Take the best from others. Oversee take lead the worst us when that woman was definitely the worst. But like what is your. What is your guess archetype for being a leader like what is it means to you? What are you trying a b when you think of yourself and my what is the bar and profile you set for yourself I think initially I guess anything? Response say say that initially leadership as a hierarchy thing intensify can only be a leader if I'm innocent position because then by default my title Will Make People Listen On the sofa off but I think but also intimates are outside ms anymore. That's an impression of work setting but outside of that working with these. I've done as a youth mentoring. A youth worker. Aw that really helped me define what it was about in terms of leadership for me is about harnessing your yourself like everyone's who's worth six and they see if you can if you can find the ability to harness you authentic self for me that is leadership that is to say. I know what I have and I know what tools I can use an an annuity to learn. I know what I'm good at what I'm bad at like not knowing yourself for me as a demonstration of leadership because then you can move forward because you're not you're you're being transparent with with the way you learn and Niekro. I think this whole the the most the people that have when I think about the people of influence me the most and had most an impact on me there have been people that are older than me. Actually I see when I see people being themselves like that person is so real that's such an attractive quality in Psalm and they're just being themselves and you think and people gravitate towards that and I think for me as a leader. I've always tried to be someone who people want to gravitate to. I WANNA be people that people want to come towards not walk away from if I find if for for me some connection so leadership is what I what is my ability to build connections with people. That's for me how I probably would in a way to sum it up. It'll be about how. How well are people? Connect him with me Kasumi. That is a demonstration of being a leader as path. I agree I like the simplicity of that. What about you going to think? What how'd you yes? So for me is I I I have always had this kind of car saying my head. Actually I tried to be lead to in your own life which She became the kind of the the strap line for reaching each and higher where we work the charity that I helped set up in twenty ten and And so for me about yeah like what. What all of the qualities that I have in myself that could help empower influence support and others? And I have to do that in my role and I've done that for quite Weil but for me. The easiest way to do that is by learning from people who I think are good leaders as well and I've had leaders and the people that manage I think they'd can can be two different things but I truly to ship his is really about being able to empower other people and not not needing to have that power for yourself whatever whatever is is actually if somebody comes an idea that is their idea you. That's not your idea that you take him because you other the leader of something on managing some things that you know it's like Blah Blah had this amazing idea that we're going to implement instant that makes a difference because it's about feeling valid. You know I think I think think it truly to really knows how to bring out with somebody else and who they're leading and not and being able to bring out. I think that's a skill and I think that's real leadership where you're identifying into fighting all of the different people in team whether you're leading two people two hundred people you know how to really kind of bring the today show on us that harness their individuals. You'll love again. I think that that perspective again is is so simple. But so poignant and it's funny like I've done a bunch of work recently because of the work space I mean at the moment mm-hmm and I said I was doing decrease stories and that's kind of what nine hundred some of this conversation but doing career stories no speaking to people in our company that do leadership and I've been looking at leadership because we've been profiling what does it mean to me a leader and what both of you have said definitely consistently comes out as what it means and I and I think I like the notion that you've picked you're part of it matters to you because I think he could look really broadly and I think sometimes that's where I overwhelm myself. I look at the entire landscape of what it means to be. A leader can constantly right judging myself again every single definition but the fact that you guys it just harnessed and pinpointed just the elements that really matter significantly US really interesting and so I think that's really really interesting and so if I was to think about that for myself and yes I think I struggled with tried to try to be a struggle. We're looking at everything. They just feeling inferior to everything. But if I was to honestly and have a moment of soberly thinking about what element of leadership that I think I I can do this. I think about is the vision. A leader is somebody that has vision and I think if you can see what others can't. Let's see that is part of your role as leader. You now getting other people to behind you I think is in itself is the work at least as far as I see it. Yeah and I think there are elements of just having such character of that vision that helps but for me. Leadership is vision so I love the fact that we picked upon something something different like the books. That was that connectedness. Yes it is and then you talk about empowering others and I remember somebody saying to me one of the leaders. I interviewed reviewed in India and he was like when you can make yourself redundant again. You've been I'll have love that I'm Buki but what you were saying. Somebody was saying to me when when when others buy into where you're going way you can win to lead others have to follow you need. If nobody's following yeah so the fact that. That's you focused on that. So I just love that we've harnessed although different elements but also refreshing and do you not know this as well even just in the three additions is very much are three very this is where our personalities I think comes home. I think this again if I listen to. What each of subscribes so you talk about empowerment and I think that is I feel like if I had this really cool question that she asked the new starters? which was if if you had one word that you could have on your T. Shirt for the rest of the time? What would it be and I feel like yours would be empowerment? I forgot one to yours. Would be vision. Might be connection and I feel like I mean if there was three words but I think it's one thing to have vision but you know what sometimes vision confess straight you. You see something and you're like I don't know how to get here so but that's leadership is well to empower others very frustrating. If somebody doesn't feel that they can be empowered or deserve it and same as we've connecting sometimes talk to connect. I liked that. I liked the fact. That we've just pinpointed dis- different PERSPEC- three different aspect was even I experience. Yeah I was about to say I didn't. I didn't think this can happen but also I think that when I when I sit here I think that when I listened to you took my empowerment. And you'd want to envision it's also the parts were. I'm like it's helpful to have that as a perspective say this is some of the things I can learn from because focuses on that collection piece. Yeah Yeah I feel very deficient in some of the areas though because I know leadership is not just vision. And so what do you do. Sofi recognize your strength but in there but you know that leadership is not just connected me you know. Leadership is not just empowering. Do what do you do with the other elements that require our required. That's okay I have vision but I don't know how to get in you. Get out and connect other people to that vision. But it's like I mean Steve Jobs said I'm very powerful raising but that's essentially for him. That's what you hire people to do that. But for me I was speaking intensive. That's where you have mentors that's going courses. That's when you have the work life coaching. They've been since I have an a couple of mentors who have amazing careers that I not necessarily want to emulate by. I just like how they very senior women one of them has led a before the other is like a chair of one and they bring different perspectives but they definitely have things. I'm I'm working and the main thing is actually influence. Okay it's not and that was kind of what spot this this conversation. Because that's you know it's one thing and I think now you said that boutiques and what you've just inundated to it makes sense why I guess I feel so frustrated straighted about the my experience with leadership because if you are somebody that is fueled by vision. It's it's hard when people don't get behind it. Don't run towards it right like all peoples knowledge and like yes. Wow Okay aright see later you know. What are you doing not easy from? You WanNa see you wanna see a tricky chain afraid of the hard work because I feel that vision is what keeps me alive if I could imagine where we're going to be. I'm willing to work hard to get that like I know where we're going and I don't mind that it's going to be hard and ugly messy because I'm so so inspired by the vision but that makes it hard is that I need other people to stay on that journey Whitney and influencing people to be on that journey I think this is where I feel the most pain because if people are seeing it then people are not going to stay in power or the or the energy techniques to stay the course and I think that's what makes me frustrated in my work is like I don't know how to influence people to see beyond the now here. You know what you mean to do that when he said he said something about an again Lincoln back into work. Because you know we're coming to the end of the year and every every worker every December we have a end of year a meeting where we kind of any one time and only time in the year that the whole company comes together as whole so where I work is quite unique setup because it's twenty six individual agencies in one building under one kind of bigger brand but they've twenty six different kinds of disciplines within the advertising process and so there's often tiffany teammate of December. The only time everybody gets together to talk about us as a as a we and and one of the point they want to talk about is of. Let's see the diversity inclusion what we've done for the year and kind of how what is that. What does that work in and get really nervous in those moments? Because I'm like essentially you're asking me to get up in front of everybody and demonstrate the influence that I've had to create change and you know and I'm technically I'm the I'm leading at my on my office in my in my role and in my job and so I'm like you want me to stand up as the as the lead influence in that space yet. I don't feel the infants because of what you've just said which is the whole. I don't feel like everyone's on board really I feel like there's times when the work's been done and I think it's been an incredible year but like you said to you earlier by can be lonely. There's been it's like I think I'm by myself so like you said that doesn't negate the hard work because what's really hard is that and this is sometimes what I think in in professional settings. How do you communicate your worth and your kind of your your again talking about validity? Because it's like I'm doing the work. The hard work is happening happening. But it's like if you're not with me you don't see it if you don't get it you don't see it if you're not excited by you don't see and so the influence going back. That's the point of influence. That is such a huge part of how successful you can be because the influence part is when people go all right intriguing trigger change and goes all. This is what you want me to do or this is what you wanted me to see. This is the perspective I didn't think of before when okay. This is what you want me to do. It creates change. It creates story Chris Chris and these and these are the things that I'm sure that everyone was. That's the big aim for everybody but I just do you think that you know in a different roles and and things that we're doing it's really. It's a challenge about how to navigate the influence because I think that some people have it despite default of an unnaturally getting tobias. But do you think there is some software. I'm like you just walked in a room and people like they turned to attention. I mean they just enter tension whereas I feel like I don't WanNa pay the car but I think is black women particularly this whole being seen in hurt and visibility ability. That has a huge part to play in the infants that we can have because of all the layers and other barriers that come beforehand when we walk into a room and not the barriers. Are we have until by the barriers that people see us we have like. Oh I E okay you're a woman or WII you're black or I can hear you and you know what I mean in all these different things and and ultimately if you go back to the main point again as I said it's you're trying to get the influence because that's when you think how much do you think just being successful. It gives you the influence because I hate you. I think you're absolutely right. If anything there are some people that will naturally have more there would be ahead of the game like you said they they just kind of commanded and and for whatever reason so I don't I do agree with you but how much do you think. Once you've proven your success or wench people. Oh okay okay how much of it then do you think you can. If you get to that point you then get okay all right. I've proven what I talk about on you know. I'm not here just to decorate on to be a token near. I'm here because I actually know something I can do. Something like have you felt that that could be that that is that is just getting it done like do do people will have no choice but to be I I I. I've had experiences where Jimmy from those people that it just they. They don't work at it. It's just a personality thing but and again maybe the privileged piece comes into this may be but there is some people. I'm like so I feel like right now. We're talking about all the work you do to prepare yourself. Make sure you can find that connection from that point of view. WH- what is it that you're interested in that. I can connect with to kind of get that communication message through all of that work. I don't actually think that everybody has to do. I think that the combination communist I mean three black women in terms of this is what how our lives are shaped with having to do additional work extra work assimilation. If you WANNA call it I generally do and I'm not saying I'm not saying and as an excuse but I'm saying that it's in our nature to do that. We're in our nature to to make sure we prepare and even as it. There's a study that's how women you want to have. One hundred percent of of the perspective over over qualification before apply for something whereas man will only need sixteen. He'll still apply for the same role but these parts preparation piece but but but but the point I'm trying to make is that. I think this people can remain open their mouth and everyone just turns to attention and it happens at work people senior leaders. I'm like they just walk in. They can just yeah. We could be having a meeting about something else. They just walk in the room and completely changed the direction conversation and everybody just goes not at no point. Is that like Whoa hold on a hi. This is relevant to the meeting. Be I mean there's no one whereas I'm saying war so ever I've done twenty hours of prep to just get your attention for ten minutes on this subject whereas this my mind has been not to the an offie goes again and the moment I hear you on that. Yeah and so and so and I I say that is for me. The inference pieces that I think influence is definitely something you can learn to do. I think is that like I said. It's a tactical business strategy that we all need to have to learn and and there's some things and see your your to my other work through to into kind of recreate those those opportunities for yourself so when you walk into rooms Japan definitely. I think there's there's some ground rules that we will replaytv but I also think this people that walk around with influence a notch deserved because that's not the right word but it's it's completely subconscious in the sense that they stay heavy they don't even realize they have as well because they just it's just how they are and it's an it's an identified personality. Your how charismatic already about. It's funny because my my company is really interesting. And then when I think about now who we consider that social capital we call it social capital and influence. Yes oh I think a lot of it comes from them being very good at their job. I know people that are influential but not necessarily the most charismatic but they just very good at their job and it's almost like well. This person knows how to and so it's like I'm going to listen to would that person's done because they've got the accolades in the credibility to back it up so I do think there are. People that are legitimately credential vice out. Great Year maybe. Because I'm in a very right technical job. Maybe that that that that is more prevalent speaks. They'll give you wrong. And then there are others who euro walk into a room and because and they made the loudest noise people just know their personalities and so yes they come on there even though he's not deserved and so I I think for me I think for me I how you see yourself have high something can remain like. Yeah I know I suffer from the most host a matter of imposter syndrome and insecurities at the worst times and so I can't help but think that that plays into my ability to come into a room and do that anyway right. If you don't feel like you have that power you fake it. T- make it really hard to do and I think others just walk in and just expect everybody to listen to so. I wonder how much I asked. My nothing can is another layer going and then also to their you impose German when you've got people that just walked in the room and put it but then there's people like me who I definitely feel that some of the time I thought I should be there and I deserve to be there but I don't coming influential quarterback that I feel like with my skills Ceo I really worked hard so I should be in that room so I feel like it's been the middleware only if the middle us in another late whereas tonight I actually do. I should be here by have to validate myself because I don't have that influence in the half. That kind of charisma is meant to dispatch Bought by by Noah should be there. Yeah and my frustration comes from reading knowing you should be there but but other people are feeling like our needs are in the space. Yeah Yeah Yeah I got that so I want to you meet me when you meet people that just feel like they just brimming with confidence that they can lie to everybody else and just I'm like I don't care what you think of me. I'm I'm not. I think one of the things that I that I get myself hung up on these that I've just. I've just told a story about everybody in the room. About how how they think of feel about me that I have no validity for and so I am amazed I think always shoot myself in the foot because I've already and maybe some of those stories stories are true but you yourself. I waste so impressed with people that give off that and maybe they give it off. Maybe they're faking it to them. They they can get to people that almost alive. I don't care I'm here and you're gonNA listen to me. It's a funny my one of my mentors who I who who I talk about Cindy who really was really definitive for me as far as I am thinking about leadership. She has a way of seeing herself that I really admire. And it's not like she figured out. She's the most humblest and very open and honest person but she has a way of say she. Of course what I do matters and of course she she should listen to me like there's just so that she just believes so much in what she is out that she doesn't feel like she doesn't leave room to second guess. I don't know if you WANNA listen to me. And she's I know of course what. I'm doing his blood. You born in matters. Of course you want to listen to it and is this like four fry about it just makes me sit down and say thank you for coming into the room and disrupts neighbor what I have to say. Is this just something not really like matter of fact in dislike of course what I do matters and there's no way I'm only here on this earth to talk about stuff that's in any way and significance. I believe what I'm about is important. Then you should too and it's just really I just give me a lot of a boost in when I feel that if you went to listen to me. I didn't if what I had to say. She's like are. Are you working on something as trivial yes or no no okay. So does it matter yes. Have you put hours in four passionate resources by his. Yes so you deserve to be listened to and she's just really like matter of fact So but it sounds like there's a self coming into it in terms of. How much do I believe in my own source? So when I woke up one arm and you know you only say your chest. Where's your source is sharing the source and I have moments? I think everyone has made. It was about Gal but then there are few between. Because there's a there's an and I think I think it's easy. It's a have the ASSOC- moments when you are like no in word professional space but it's almost like because you can't no one could say this and just be really isn't transparent but this wholesome comedy we call out whereas I think him work and like you said it's and I think maybe working in tech you can't even you can't even fake tech and it's very it's like you don't get to say you can do something but I think in some of their environments. I work in advertising trying to say people aren't talented. Not all but I think there's an element of like finessing so much so much bother job and I'm sure in the arts is not. It's so much relation so relational but cannot say because that was not add home but again as I think network is important I think using other three of us as an example to the listening in I think that the relationship and what this podcast has really allowed us to do is is almost full that gaps. Where so like I said? We talked about three different perspectives of leadership. So therefore we've got three different spaces we can learn from each other the I how do I have no vision and empowerment and how how does how do you think about vision in connection one do you. How do you think about connection empowerment? And how do we and how does this this network between the three of us in different spaces and stages who knossos with and I think it's like it's like it's a mental whether it's a friend friend Barich family. I think it's just finding those people that you think there's something there's something interesting about either. I don't miss you. Give me some real thought. They honestly I really really. I really appreciate that and I think one of the things that I've been. I feel like a real turning point for me when when I was thinking been exposed. More around leadership development was one of the things. I clearly failed. That was believing that I had to be all of these things before I could even qualify as leader and then like I have to be good to be credible enough to just credible and and just like perfects everything before I could even put my hand up but I think that really started a to understand it and internalized that I can focus on what I'm good at and it's like there's a unique space I have been created to occupy is going back to something biblical as well as far as recognizing that I can't remember the scripture remember what context was but it was dynamite APP to bring it not because it's just struck me this recognition. I think it was just something about you. Know God chose you knowing everything you are like the idea. I did that for everything. You know everything. You are not good enough adult bat at you failed that God still chose you and so even in my worst four of who I am and still good enough for the purpose I've been called for and so the reason I go there is because it connected me back to this notion Russian of like you don't have to be perfect to be good and I think there's just something near liberating and I think for me as a perfectionist and somebody that's just so hard on themselves selves. I'm constantly just wanting to be beating myself up being good enough but just taking a moment and actually remembering hearing. You don't have to be good everything the one thing that I will one of the few things that I know I can do. That's what I meant to be doing. So whether it's I know I can do this and other things will come and I'll get better influencing and figured out and bring people around the connectedness. An empowering really struck a chord with me I'm like yes. Those are two things. I'm not good would ask you to our. That's really interesting but that doesn't take away from the fact that I do bring something to the table already. I can really shine in that while getting better. The other things that I don't do and I think that balance celebrating my strengths and not letting where I less weaker overtake me enough of what I what I take away from this. I think to to me I'm just going to I think life is about learning Elsa and I'm just a believer of that also learning whether it's in the classroom awesome outside of it whether it's getting a mental life coach. I'm really about that and I really think that no matter what we want to be with her. And some people some people that wanted to be leaders in that sense in lack of biggest sensory workplace that you know whatever it's I think we need leaders could leaders. We need people to to be led. You know an influence and other ways and other things I just always. This is a bit sappy. I always think of Malcolm X.. And Rosa Rosa Parks Kinda thing and the type of lead. I mean another many more examples with the type of kind of the influence our activists no and I kind of feel that for me. I'm probably maybe more on the the site. If there was a spectrum definitely closes the Rosa Parks Spectrum Innocence of I really do want to lead and influence and change policies and mindset. Since they've come is still stuck in the olden times whatever. We do it kind of galvanized communities and kind of like kind of be influenced socially and on that scale but I'm not necessarily stand on a pedestal with a megaphone type of person and maybe it's more quiet and I had the one of the biggest compliments allies ever given was by my mentor at she. When she said you know the kind of the way you think and what you do is quite revolutionist and I was like McKay McKay and I and I see that as powerful in the sense of of Fascist my maybe my star the my way and essentially is just trying to find that is because I wanted to stopped I want to agitate provoke said change things but it's a city not in that kind of megaphone stand on on a bus shelter you know and speak how come away might may be bit. More quiet. Could be more one on ones. It could be more just doing

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