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Westgate SuperContest Selections Segment Week 6 2018
Over at the book dot com, or we are your one stop shop for sports betting news and information. It's got everything that we have to offer a lot of great stuff over there. Updated NFL power ratings from Danny Borg's. He's having a fantastic season with those who doesn't want to make sure that you check those out my college football power ratings posted on a weekly basis as well and l. c. s. preview dodgers versus brewers. AL CS preview Astros versus Red Sox both over there at the website. Of course, if you missed yesterday's breakdown of those two series and of how to hedge futures, you can find that segment as well as all of the past segments from this week. Go bang book radio over there at Bangor, book dot com. Don't forget about our free. Pick contests. Make sure you check those out. Also sports book reviews, including that review four DS's sportsbook bang. One hundred is the promo code. 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Definitely make sure you check out all of the great work being done over at bang, the book dot com. We got two segments left here for this week on the show. The first one is that west gate super cont selection segment with myself and west Reynolds. As I mentioned, my bang book podcast entry not really doing so hot here eight fourteen and three to start the air, but are banged the book dotcom. Gold entry fourteen eight and three and the other banged the book traditional entry thirteen, nine and three. So it's not all bad news for us, and we are doing very well in the gold nugget ultimate football challenge where we're tied for eighteenth I'll, but I just gotta get things back on track here with my bang book podcast entry for the super contest. So here are my thoughts, four weeks, six with some help from west Reynolds for the west gate. Super contest joined now by west Reynolds for the week. Six west gate, super contest selection, segment west. How's it going today? Man, Adam. How are you doing for the thousands in one or this will be the thousand and to show? I'm sorry. I'm doing well, man. And you know, I, I wished I was doing a little bit better here with my banged book podcasts century and super contest eat fourteen and three so far. So not the greatest records, obviously to say the least I've had some bad handicaps. I've had some games that haven't gone my way here so far, but you know, every week you kinda wipe the slate clean and hope that it's wake the put together. One of those elusive, five zero records speaking of our of our super contest results. So far, Bengal book, dotcom gold entry, fourteen eight and three bang book traditional entry, thirteen, nine and three. So those countries doing a little bit better. My podcasts entry not so much here, but last week west, it was a struggle for the field overall forty four point, six, seven percent, fifty point seven percent. Now on the season you and I kinda talked about that we'd five card and how there were a lot of tough spots. A lot of games that right there on key numbers or looked like they were just complete toss up kinda. Handicaps and things kinda played out that way. But with the this was just, you know, I mean sub sub weeks or just kind of like that where where you don't like a lot of plays when it comes maybe for the purpose of of submitting into the super contests, but then you like him better when you look at them again on game day, and I'm usually not a one that's gonna make a lot of your traditional side and total bets on game day because sometimes value is taken out. But I think if you're betting games on game day, the game day is a lot more like derivative Betty for for your. I have your second half verse quarters because you'll see some things on Sunday that maybe it didn't have a chance to think about during the week because the week is so busy, you know, with not only college and pro football, and then the other sports starting. But you'll you'll figure those out maybe on Sunday. And then all of a sudden you'll see, wait a minute. Why wasn't I looking at this first half total under, you know, and a lot of times because these. Earn up until Saturday for the NFL for the NFL part on Sunday. So it's not like they're putting these first half totals and quarters, and I have up, you know, on Tuesday or Wednesday before before a game week, unless it's like a Thursday night game. So I mean that that's the tricky thing with this is just, you know, sometimes you don't like a lot of stuff until late in the week or sometimes you'll like a bunch of stuff earlier in the week and then not like anything on the weekend. The gold last week, forty, six point one, four percents, and that field struggled as well. But they're fifty three point one, five percent for the season. So a little bit more than three percent better than the traditional super contests field in west before we get into the games that I do like for this week and it's it's not a car that I have a ton of confidence with your so far. That's what I want to talk about is that there's a real crisis of confidence here when you have a bad week in the super contest because you don't know the margin for error is extremely thin. So me for example, where I, where I pulled off an old four in one week. I mean, now you just face such long odds, even crash, even relatively long odds to put yourself in a pretty good position to have a solid record. You question everything. You can't lock in on anything. That's one of those things to wear with a personal bankroll. Maybe you had a good college football Saturday. You'll like I went four and over with the college picks, and our joint gold nugget entry then did nothing in the NFL. So. Whereas with a personal Bank, will you know you've got a silver winding of well really well on Saturday or did well with props or derivatives or something like that here in the super contest. I mean, it's a lonely feeling when you pull off a really bad week and net crisis of confidence is something that trickles into the handicap of every game. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, and and that's the toughest thing that we deal with. I think it as better than people that participate in this arena is that you know how to shake off about week because because it is really tough. And I mean, you know, people are only human. I don't care whether you just kinda that privately or you make your picks public or you make your picks bailable for purchase or whatever part of the industry you're in. If only natural that you're gonna get confidence shaken. And I mean, but the way to do it is just, you know, sometimes treated as as a new week and especially if your buddy daily were, if you're doing hockey, if you're. NBA college hoops, soccer, you know, stuff that you have during the week like yesterday or or on Wedneday rather. There wasn't a lot out there. I mean, there was a coup- there were some India, preseason all the baseball. The divisional series said robbed up. There was no football, and there was only a very small NHL slate. So it wasn't like there was a lot out there too bad for the day or for for the daily. And sometimes when those days happen there actually a good thing because you know it's about to get real busy here in a couple of weeks. So I mean, it's just I think you gotta treat every week is a new week because they'll always be one week. They're always be little anomalies in terms of the underdogs cover like a lot in one week, you might have ten on their dogs cover, and then the next week you might have ten favorites cover. So I mean, a lot of these are nominally. I mean, certainly yours are better than others, but you can't just I think, overreact in terms of of a sample size and there's some games this week. Where you know people might be overreacting and we'll touch on them the individually in terms of the market where the market hated the team last week and then they got burned. And now they like miss which so I mean, you know, you just you hit yoyo I guess too much. And I think it's a way where you can find winners where you can capitalize on people, kind of, you know, being afraid because the team burn them last week. So now they, they've got to go with them this week or team that they played last week and really like then they get the result for that one week. That doesn't mean they're not going to get the result the next week. And like you said, I mean, you know, you don't want to overreact two to one week or what you last saw. But at the same time, you know the market overreacts and there's really, we talked about this Brad powers on Thursday where you know one of his favorite things to do is look at those look at headlines on Thursday for the next week in the NFL and after the games are played on Sunday circle back and look at those overreact. That are out there and they're always they're. They're always present in the NFL because it's the biggest game in town. So you know, it's it's such a complex thing to be a better and be a handicapper, and you know, obviously the contest you've got game theory involved and and different stuff like that. But you know, they're already, oh, always, excuse me. So many considerations. So many things you have to try to keep in mind here along with just the simple fact of trying to pick winners. And hopefully I'll do a little bit better of a job here with that this week. So as a surgeon look at some of the games that I'm looking at for week six, I was sitting there was one game that I really like one game that I like a fair amount and then the rest are maybes games on a little bit stronger on than others. Again, I talk about that crisis of confidence, a big deal here with me with regards to this NFL card, but we'll go ahead and start with a big favourite here. That's number three. In the supergun dissertation order the Minnesota Vikings. They're a ten point favorite here. We're against the Amazon cardinals. I was against Minnesota last week in Philadelphia was the last player I decided to make on. Obviously we know how that one went with me for the eagles put in this situation here. I think this is one of those I get right beat the hell out of somebody gets back on track kinds of games for the Vikings. They've been as severe Margaret's Uber so far this season, the cardinals do not move the football. They haven't had more than two hundred and sixty three yards in a game this season. The defense is already had three games, allowing four hundred or more yards cardinals play a short week game next week against Denver at home. So you know, going all the way out could Minnesota. Then you've gotta come back, get ready to play right away for a home game. Again, this is an era Zona team. It's going anywhere this season. So maybe not a maximum level of focus with this long trip up to the twin cities. Also double digit favorites in the NFL we talk about, you know how hard it is. Delay doubles in the NFL double digit favorites at home since the start of twenty four. Eighteen forty nine, twenty eight and one against the spread mad teams have been really bad. Good teams have taken advantage. I think Minnesota still a pretty good team. So I'm looking to lay the minus ten here in this spot with Minnesota. If I were to make this play, it would be Minnesota nothing. Because simply if you look at the Zona side, Josh Rosen did win and his first rogue start and they ended up pushing or covering depending on the number you had against Seattle when they played out at at home at university of Phoenix stadium two weeks ago, but they did get a win at Arizona or at San Francisco, but San Francisco's obviously a mess without Jimmy Garoppolo. And now I think they probably know they're not going anywhere at least for this season. So you know, maybe it's showing that there's a little bit of confidence in Rosen because I mean, if we look last week all four rookie quarterbacks. I mean, that's one of those nominally all for the rookie quarterback's one. That that were starters last week. So you know, maybe there's a little bit of confidence in rose in. I think Minnesota is a lot better than their record indicates to two in one. I mean, they went out to LA didn't get the win, but you know, within seven, I mean, they weren't dominated by any stretch of the imagination. I mean, it's tough to win, and the Rams are pretty good. So you know, that's a tough spot for Minnesota. I think people were still looking at Minnesota's the team that lost to buffalo and I think that they are a lot better than that. I still think Minnesota is a bona fide contender in the NFC. Whereas we look at the AFC and there looks like maybe they're two contenders the teams that are playing on Sunday night that those are realistically the teams that you could see and say, hey, they're getting to a Super Bowl and the NFC even though the Rams right now are five, no, you could still see four or five six teams out of the NFC at least with a chance. And I think Minnesota is one of those and. Plus they had to play the last week. I mean, they had to play LA and then they had the place Philadelphia. So I mean, this is this is like a forks, Racine analogy a little bit. One of those, you know that kind of liked to use in terms of this drop in class. You know, this is dropping down from steaks to my terminology may be wrong more. Some of the equine experts that listen to this podcast and correct me, but you know, this is like dropping in for attack basically after you lost against better competition in a in a stakes race, and you know, Minnesota would be the team that I think I would lay and we know that obviously, did you a more recreational and public betters that might be in the contest like the be favorites, but they might be skittish about lane Minnesota with ten, and we were talking before he came on the air. They have no problem laying those double digits with your premium teams, you know your traditional premium teams, patriots Packers. Those type. Of teams, and maybe the Rams are going to become that at some point. Even later on this season, they have no trouble lane that, but Minnesota who's kind of a good team, but not seen as a really elite team, they might not wanna do that. So I'm actually kind of on your side here with Minnesota. I would not even look at her as a here and this is the spot to. I mean, if Minnesota was playing the saints next on Sunday night football, like they have on October twenty eighth, I wouldn't even entertain the thought, but they play the jets next week. So no look ahead spot. You know, back to back road games against playoff caliber teams. Even though Philadelphia, you know, is having its share of struggles here. I don't think that there's really a let down, you know, you're coming back home where you just lost by three touchdowns to the bills. You wanna put your best foot forward here for this one in front of the home fans. So I think Minnesota, I've, you're gonna take a big favourite here this week. I think Minnesota is the one to look at over Green Bay or the Houston Texans. But. Before we get away from this and get back to the players that I'm looking at here for this week, you and I had a very interesting discussion before we started recording here about the Houston Texans, and the NFL is buying large about optics and Houston's optics are not very good right now they spent gaming. The Cowboys was awful. All the way around Houston has not looked very good. They're not a well coached team, but when you look at them this week, there is something kind of intriguing despite that. Big number. Yeah, this is probably one, I'm I, I'm going to bet I certainly would use it in the super contest if I have. You know, just a my own entry of a five. I would lay the nine and a half because if you look at Houston, they could realistically be in five team right now. They they got, even though they lead most of the game, they got taken over time in Indianapolis, almost blew the game, kinda got four unit. The fact that Frank Reich sports down decision didn't work out. 'cause Andrew luck threw a bad pass and. And they got a first down kick. The field goal won the game. They also put a loss last week, the Dallas. I had him last week on the money line about minus one sixty five because I didn't wanna lay three and a half. And I figured if I'm buying down that much juice because half points in the NFL sometimes when you're laying on a key number, they could be as high as one thirty or one thirty five. You know, some, we'll even really try to cheat and give you a dollar forty. If if you're talking to key numbers are like three and seven, which that game was on last week, the three. So it's like I figured I might as well pay just a little bit extra, lay the money line and I gotta tell ya. There are so many ways. Houston could have lost that game and look, Dallas makes mistakes too. But Houston's play. Colleen was was brutal, especially in inside the ten. And you know they end they end up getting a win and and going over time. So. But I think maybe Houston's looking at that as like, hey, we haven't been very good, but we're two and three. We're only at game out of this division as bad as we've bit. We're only game behind Jacksonville and Tennissee who are certainly showing their show on abilities and neither one look like they're a particularly dominant team that's going to run away with the division. So I think Houston may be looking at it that way and look in a little more optimistically when you sell buffalo who the market absolutely hated last week. I mean they open three and a half and went to six. And I know four and five hundred key numbers, but that's still a decent size move on a side. And everybody was on Tennessee and Tennessee was never even close to covering that game. We get let alone winning. And the final was wis twelve to ten. So now people like, well, this flow team, you know, they fight hard. You know, they're not great, but they fight hard every week and and yes, that's true. But then you're seeing a line of nine and a half, and now it's mostly tens across the board. You know, Houston is not one of those premium team. Like I was talking about earlier, were there wanting to lay double digits with? You know, you got two and three team laying ten points. So I mean, that almost indicates to me that Houston is that kind of n. t public favor. Then contrary and favorite. Those are some of my favorite favorites. So to speak to bet are the ones that nobody likes and people are gonna look at Houston and see that number and be like you and and not want any part of it. But you know, one of the analogies I like to use it, sometimes you gotta go with stink is in the stink as with Houston, and that line seems to stink. But I think it stinks for a reason. I think so too a man. That's an interesting one to me. Sure. And you know, I was kinda looking at buffalo at the outset. Thinking, can Houston really cover this kind of number? You know, a lot of good thoughts. They're always a little bit of a contrarian point of view from west, right? So my next game on the board here number ten, the Carolina Panthers plus one, both Carolina in Washington, coming out of the bio last week books. Pretty bad. Carolina did escape what the win over the giants. Thanks to the sixty. Three yard field goal of the Redskins did not escape with anything in there. Monday night football game against the saints except for having to prepare a short week here for the Carolina Panthers. So Panthers plus one aside that I'm looking at, Thomas Davis comes back panther's offense of line. Got healthier. During the bye they allowed five sacks in their first two games only to in the last two games. Some of that probably getting some more familiarity with that. Norv Turner offense, but the Panthers take care of the football. They don't turn it over there. Very good. On third down defense, their sixth. Whereas Washington twenty-seventh year, the saints spread out the Redskins got the ball out in space and Washington had a lot of problems with it. What you will about the lack of skill position pass catchers for Carolina, but they can get you spread out in space here a little bit with a guy like Christian McCaffrey with the legs of Cam Newton. So I think when you look at this matchup here, I think from an Xs and os standpoint and a little bit of a situational standpoint. I do like Carolina here. Yeah, this is. This is actually a tough call for me because you know, it's, it's the like black. I said earlier, you know, sometimes with betters when the team burns you the previous week, you're a little hesitant to to go to go back with them and and and and sometimes for good reason. I mean, you know, I had a pretty solid week last week, but I did have the Redskins in the Monday night game and they got absolutely obliterated. Now they didn't get a benefit really of of a good whistle. I don't think they had a lot of penalties called against him. And I mean, and it was New Orleans gun drew Brees night. So sometimes when you make that and it looks good before the game, and then you look at the result, you're kinda like, man, I kinda see why maybe I lost. You know, it's like what the hell was. I think in betting against the saints on drew Brees night whenever basically coordinating for passing Manning's so the for the for the record and all that. So this this is a toughie for me. I mean, I had the giants last week against Carolina, and it could have. Away from the giants and the giants look like they were going to steal the gate and from the Panthers, and then the panther somehow got after they totally mismanaged that final drive in terms of clock management, send Graham Gano out there for sixty three yards and he nailed it. So I mean, so maybe there's a little bit of negative perception on Carolina to there's. There's certainly is on Washington after getting embarrassed on national TV on Monday night. And those are usually teams I would endeavour to wanna take the following week, but there's also a little bit of undervalue on Carolina because it's kinda like they got fortunate to escape against giant team where you know everybody's fighting minnow del Beckham is be the the wide receiver, and people are questioning Eli manning and and how bad he is and they, they cut Eric flowers. The offense of wine has been bad, so which is ironic enough because the giants, you know, obviously the the result will be known by the time. This. Airs Friday, but the giants are getting on the money in the market this week and getting a lot of support. And I actually agree with it because I think they kind of hunker down and you know, kinda say, screw it and and and band together a little bit because you probably got fifty three guys on that roster play. And then what's being said in the media about him. But anyway, back to this game, the reason why I'm passing because it's it's tough for me because I think you can make a case for Washington being a little bit better than what we saw last week. And I think you can make a case for Carolina for the same. So this is actually probably going to be a passer me and one I stay away from. A game. It's not totally on my radar here, but you talk about teams kinda banding together and the face of adversity or public scrutiny or whatever. The Steelers kind of fit that mold this week, which I think it's going to be a really interesting game to look at from a super contest consensus standpoint. 'cause you're the Bengals who've been much better than Pittsburgh this year still only two and a half point favorite that lines. Not three. We talked about that earlier on in the week on bang, book radio, maybe Pittsburgh is the side there, but I also think the Bengals a little more trustworthy. So that's why I'm not really looking too much at that particular game. But one game I am looking at you and I both like this game quite a bit number twenty two in the super guy. This rotation order, the Denver Broncos. They're plus six and a half. I wish it was seven like it is out there in the betting market, but maybe the fact that it's six and a half. We'll keep a couple of people offer this game. Well, I mean, this is spot here is obvious. You know, you've got Rams and individual sandwich spot coming off a win over Seattle there for Cisco. Ondeck it's gonna be cold. It's going to be snowy miserable in Denver. You've got going up to Seattle. Then going out to Denver Rams with a three game cushion. Everything just sets up for Denver here. Are they the better team? No, but this is purely a spot play in my estimation and I, I know you've got some stronger takes about the Rams and maybe some of their shortcomings, but it's gotta be Denver in this situation for me. Yeah, I'm absolutely with you. I think Denver is the site here and you know, going back versus super contest line at six and a half that maybe also, you know, I talked about this before that the west gate guys will put some opinion in the line. And yeah, they'll, they'll dummy in the line a little bit because they want, you know, to present a challenge to we, you know where it's not so cut and draw, but maybe they're putting, you know, John Murray, Jeff Sherman Ed salmon's, and all the brain trust over at the west gate that really that makes the numbers. You know, they might be telling you. Oh bit that they kind of thing Denver's the good side here, the fact that they put it out at six and a half. And also, you know, we saw the Rams last week win in Seattle, and we've talked about this on previous podcasts in terms of the really great home field advantages in the National Football League, Seattle's right up there every year, no matter what kind of team they have, whether they're in a week team or they're kind of middle of the road team or even if they're a little bit lesser than that, they're always tough to beat at home. Denver is another one that always has a really good home field advantage. It's going to be baked into the line because of the altitude because of potential weather. You kinda saw it a little bit on Monday night when New Orleans great home field advantage and it was, and it was still put it sick. So I read that as an indicator on Washington, and of course misread that one because New Orleans has as superlative home field advantage. And then plus you add the circumstances of drew Brees and everything around that. The ceremony and stopping the game and all that. So. I think Denver's the spot here and the Rams you know, did concern me a little bit on defense. I mean, Seattle really could've won that game. The Rams gave up thirty one points to Seattle offense. That really hasn't been dazzling. I mean, a Seattle offense that has trouble protecting the passer. We're Russell Wilson has to get out of the pocket and make place for them to even have a chance. The running game has has not really been create really the last couple years and the Rams despite their personnel, especially on their front four, which is is one of the better ones in the league still gave up thirty one points and and I think very highly of Wade Phillips as a defensive coordinator. But I think you know winning is the ultimate deodorant and kind of, you know, mass away the stake of some of the issues that you have. And I think they do, you know, despite their really good often, they issues on defense. And at some point I think that is gonna bite them. It's not the Denver's often into so explosive, but it's. How long can you give it? How long can you get away with that? They gave up thirty one the Minnesota. They gave up thirty one to Seattle. I mean, how long can you keep you know getting away with that and having your offense Bill yet. I mean, there's gonna be some time. We're maybe your offense with a little bit off. You know, Jared Goff maybe a little bit off, maybe turn the ball over. I mean, you can only I think in this league, even if you're a really good team get away with that so often. So, I mean, I think Denver plus seven in the pocket is really good, and I still actually like him plus six and a half in the super contests. Well, radically know if we're gonna talk about another team here in a second that has similar defensive problems, and maybe some of the same talking points that you just mentioned there, but maybe this is the week for the Rams with that snow in the forecast. I saw two to three inches of snow during the game for this one gonna make it ugly. Probably gonna make it low scoring as well, which you gotta like Denver a little bit more there at the plus six and a half. And one last point I'll make here is that a lot of talking about what that game last weekend meant for Seattle, that changing of the guard game kind of telling them, hey, your window is slammed shut here. And I mentioned earlier in the week, I think Seattle is they long-term Fave now that was a lot for the Rams to put into that game emotionally as well because they finally got tested. They finally got the game that they wanted from somebody. I think Minnesota them a little bit of a game on Thursday night as well in some some optimal conditions for the Vikings. But that was kind of the Rams passing of the torch type of game. Like we talked about on Wednesday the, they put a lot into that. Game, and now they've got to go back play on the road non-conference opponent, bad weather, you know, isn't young teams team trying to establish a new culture and a new identity. It's not an easy sought for a team like the Rams and know the Broncos. Aren't that good? But still, you know, this is one of those. I think kind of quintessential NFL spots that you look for. So I do like the Broncos plus six and a half year, even though I'm not getting the seven, and then I got probably let the cat out of the bag on the last play here. But I, I've gotta fade Kansas City this week with the New England, Patriots patriots, twenty two and ten against the spread in October since two thousand ten. They've only allowed nineteen points per game. Also seventeen seven, and one against the spread is a home favourite with extra prep time since twenty ten average winning margin fourteen point eight points per game in those twenty five games. They've only allowed an average of three point. Two points per game in the first quarter. Kansas City has gotten out in front allot early in the game this year. They've been able to keep that bad defense or getting exposed because they've played from a head and then added on or gotten the response touchdowns when they need them. I don't think New England less than happened this week. I think this is that statement type of game for the patriots where they started out slow and they've done this. We, they've been a slow starting team the last few years. I think it's time that they flip that switch. And if you wanna talk on a team in pro sports that can flip that switch. There's only one and it's the New England, Patriots. And I think this is a good opportunity for them to do that. Yeah. And I, I wanna give credit because where I I heard this term and the term I've used over the years myself in terms of not only my angles, but in terms of embedding, but talking about games when they give out this is a term my hurt from Alan Boston, many years ago. Now this was obviously around college basketball, which and I think is most known for is a better and it's the show and who's boss game, and it's a term how and uses uses a lot. Usually it's like in a conference game where you have a team that's the established program, but maybe they're not quite the dominant team that year and they get that young upstart, who's kinda the new team on the scene that's going to challenge. And then all of a sudden, you know that that young upstart, you know, takes takes one takes a loss. And and I think that that could very well happen here. The fact that it's it's three and a half shows you that the patriots are a lot stronger. Favorites than than people think. I mean, you're going to see some people that are going to blindly bet Kansas City because it's like, oh, man, they're five, no man look at what they did the Jacksonville when the market. That's another one, the market loved Jacksonville last week. You know, there was there was some sharp money on Jacksonville because it's like at some point. You know this thing with chiefs, even though I think they have staying power and they're really good at some point, they're going to run into something he, he's not Jacksonville with that defense was going to be that team and then the chiefs got out to leave forces like Boorda's to throw a lot more than he was like two. And then you get turnovers and Jacksonville just could never really get back in the game. I don't think that's the case with the patriots here. And plus they take the patriots or a little more healthy than than than than when they were start the year. I believe I at Ataman or is that I believe correct me if I'm wrong. And I mean you you, I think you have gronk a little bit more healthy. Sony, Michelle, I think, has been a very good sign in the draft for them. And I think that there's the potential that he may emerge as kind of that starting running back. They've really been looking for. I mean, they've had a lot of utility backs like James white and and those guys, but probably the best back maybe they had since when Laurence Maroney had a couple of really good years up there where where you can literally say this the three down back. So that adds something to them and and I think you know the patriots world world little bit down the first couple of weeks. And like we said, they're not going to be the same team that they were in the first week of September. You know, they're, they're going to be a better team. And I mean this we're still not November December when I think is when they're really at their best, but kind of ashore, who's boss game. And I think Phil Bella check is, you know they're here. And I mean, these guys say they don't listen to the media or watch TV read the new. Newspapers or follow all that stuff into face as as Bill. Bell tech famously calls it, but they do. They know what's being said, they know that all the talk about the cheese on all the television product and all of that. So you know, if you don't think that the New England Badri is kinda saying, wait a minute. We've essentially been the kings of the American Football Conference for close to decade and a half now. And everybody's talking about this team. We're not bad yet. So I totally agree with your assessment on the patriots. And I think they're definitely not to prove a point on Sunday night. Or to the four games. It looks like we're going to make my card here. The four sides. I guess I should say Vikings minus ten Panthers plus one Broncos plus six and a half, patriots minus three and a half. You know, we'll see stayed away from the flat key numbers. They had three or four of them last week. You know, those didn't really work out too well in my favor there. Obviously, as you know, if you can count, that's only four and I have to have five for the super contest here. So a couple of other thoughts that I've got the Texans were an interesting one and maybe a game I end to look at it a little bit more Tampa Bay Buccaneers their number sixteen, the rotation order plus three and a half. This is really just a straight fade of that Atlanta, Falcons defense, which continues to be really bad, Tampa Bay off the bye which the value of by weeks in the NFL. I don't think the by week helps Chicago this week. I think Miami's a pretty interesting contrarian type of play. You wanna look for the ugly contrarian dog. That's one of them to consider this week, but the buccaneers needed that by week, the bears. Didn't want it the book and nears needed it. So maybe that helps them a little bit here with James Winston taking first team reps once again, we know Tampa Bay can score. The question is, how many points is that defense going to give up against the falcons off exit? It's found Calvin Ridley that's kind of figure things out in the red zone game. I'm looking at here Baltimore minus two and a half. Interesting. Matchup x. ravens DC dean pees are the titans defensive coordinator now is Tennessee looking ahead to London a little bit or at least distracted some, maybe Baltimore off the rare loss to the Browns. Then they take money right away. This game open Bigham. Now it's Baltimore two and a half or three is there. So those are the two games. I'm kind of considering there for that fifth play. But again, lots of reading lots of digging to try and figure out. Yeah. And with the re going back to the Tampa Atlanta game. I mean, this is going to be an interesting thing to figure out here where you've got to determine where Jameis Winston had head of that. That is he going to be, you know, hey, I've got my job back. Everything's hunky Dory, you know, on the on the starter again. So there's not maybe that sense of urgency, or is he going to be the guy that said, you know what? I could've very easily lost my starting job here. This it's fats played well, and and all of that and I could have lost it. But now I've got it back and I'm gonna come out with a sense of urgency and make sure I don't ruse it again should be interesting to see what happens there in that one. Again, the question I have is how many points do I need Tampa Bay to score? I mean, if this is the last thing with the ball situation, getting that three and a half could be kinda nice. But again, Tampa Bay needs to keep up its ending the bargain by scoring with Atlanta. If the falcons go out there and put up a big number. So west Reynolds, you can follow his work on Twitter at west Reynolds and the number one as always been present your time. Thank you so much for joining me. We'll talk to you next week. All right, you bet at him. I was a pleasure.
Bang the Book
Aired 4 months ago 68:59
Piecing Shattered Dreams into a Beautiful Story: Shannan Martin
Hi everybody. My name is Grammy. Welcome to the for the love podcast. With your host, Jenn hat maker, my mom, she writes books and speaks to couch, but she mostly loves talking to amazing people on this podcast every week. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoyed the show. Hey, everybody it is. Jin hat maker here. You're happy hostess on the for the love podcast, welcome to the show. So we're in the middle of our for the love of books series at it has been a blast b. l. a. s. t. I mean, we have talked to some of the most crazy talented writers and thinkers, and I'm not joking. I have loved every single minute of it and all cross the spectrum. I mean, every kind of writer interesting thinker. I just love it and you've been fabulous listeners by the way. Thank you for welcoming this wide array of guests with open arms with intelligence. I'm always so proud of you. And when writers like, tell me. Out your list. Like, don't you worry? They're the best. And so I can't wait for you to meet some of you will have positively known her, but some of your gonna meet my new guest today, and she is, I'm not joking. I'm not joking. This is one of my favorite people and. I love her. This is Shannon Martin on today. She's a speaker. She's a writer who, essentially, as she says, she found her voice in the country and found her story in the city. You're gonna level this way. We will impact every bit of that sentence and you are. You're going to be moved by it. So she's been blogging kind of the beginning of blogging, and she started out with a blog, flower patch, farm girl, which may be how you know her. And now she blogs over at Shannon, Martin writes, which will link all that you guys, but her her world has evolved in changed her writing her content and, and we've got to see this and she is a spectacular writer. I mean so much. So when my friend has gone Iger was on the show a couple of weeks ago for the second time by the way we were talking about Shannon and and just like when I read Shannon's work, I want to eat it and that is apt description. So Shannon and her husband, Corey, who is the chaplain at. Their local jail. Talk about that too. They have four amazing kids who came to them across oceans and rivers, and in the most unlikely ways. And they live in gauche Indiana right now. So we'll talk about where she started in how she got to go Shen and a little bit about her last two books. The first one was falling free, which I wrote the forward four gladly with great joy, and the next one is just about to come out. It's called the ministry of ordinary places, and I stamp them with every bit of my seal of approval. They are wonderful will talk each and she's just a real deal. I mean, I, this kind of person I want my life, the real kind. She's one of my favorite writers because she doesn't just prescribe all the time. This is how has to be this is what will look like, do this, and you'll get this never what she does tells her story and the cuts and scrapes alongside some of the trophies. And she writes beautifully and with tenderness that is it'll draw. You in four. Sure. And she has such a good living, breathing example of how to be a good neighbor. I mean, and what does this world right now more than good neighbors. So this is Shannon in a nutshell, this is how she describes her neighborhood. The world outside our windows is a mash up of buckled sidewalks, heartbroken. Humans, truant teenagers in the occasional peel mariuchi. This is God's country. We fit right in that. Great. She so wonderful. I can't wait for you to meet her you. We're gonna love this conversation. Please give a warm, welcome to Shannon, Martin, my friend, Shannon, welcome to the show. I'm so so so happy me too. Me too. I love you so much and everybody who knows me already knows that this is not news. You're just, you know, you're just one of my favorite people. And we've been friends for a lot of a lot of years. We were internet friends. We all its finessed on, I mean so long. And so yet. So short, I know I know, and the internet friendship gave way to plenty of in life friendship. I mean, where where we, she an when you drove over a kind of far came to the event, we went to dinner shutdown the restaurant and at the at paying the Bill at midnight I found out you guys were driving back home. We're, I mean, it's Grand Rapids, Rapids, so are well, I mean, kind of, but I think it was like two hours. It was totally worth it. Oh my gosh, I cannot believe it. I'm like, I remember we're paying the Bill and I'm like, where are you guys too? And it was cold. What was it snowing? There was freezing. I mean, if you're here between November and April, it's probably snowing, so that is the truest thing. He's literally ever said. Thank you for being on the show today. I've told my listeners a little bit about you kind of snapshot of you and your family and your work. But I wonder if just kind of right here at the top of the show, could you sort of tell everybody a little bit more about Yuzu about your hub in kids where you live, what your family dynamic looks like a little bit? Yeah, I'd love to. So I met my husband Corey at in college. We went to a real small Christian college here in Indiana. We've been married now for about nineteen years, and he is actually the chaplain of our county jail. So we'll probably maybe circle back to some of that a little bit because it's like it has just blown the walls out of our life. You know, like it's just it's a really amazing surprise for our family, and then we have four kiddos, all of them came to us through Dopp shin. So each have really interesting and unique and special stories. This is tricky for me because we adopted out of birth order. So. Like do you go from oldest to youngest? That's true. Yeah, I'll go in order of how they came to our family. So. Okay. Calvin is thirteen fourteen soon and he's a middle school. He was born in South Korea. Ruby is twelve and she was born domestically Silas. Turns ten tomorrow MG. He's such a quirky guy. So he was also born in South Korea. So for him, we got to go over there and bring him home, and that was a pretty special experience. And then like, you know how some families have like that surprise when they think pay. Please big surprise. Literally, he's literally quite big. He is six foot four or something. And his name is Robert and he's twenty four now. And he came into our family when he was nineteen years old. Yes, just like the normal way. People do things. Go ahead and adopt a grown man, new twin maybes of his own. I'm glad you included that bit. I mean, it is like such. I love your family and a love the way. All your kids came into your family and loved the way you love your kids. I've learned a lot by watching you parent, Robert and young parenting. Young adults is already a weird category that is strange, and I find lack of instruction on it. But then you parent young adult with twins and life, and I don't know, Hoosier instructor, I don't know interest, right? I mean, that's what we found. So he was, you know, when he came into our family, we had known him kind of at the fringes of our life a little bit more for couple of years. And then he went to jail and they went to prison. And so when he that's kind of, you know, during that time of incarceration for him was when we were able to just like go all in like, okay, I just remember thinking now I always know where you are like, oh, now you're over lining, you're going to take my calls every. You know when he was in the years leading up to that, he would just kind of disappear for awhile and it was always really stressful for me so course as you know, it was really heartbreaking and traumatic for everybody when he was arrested. But there is this little part of me that was like, okay, so we just that when he was jailed. That was our first experience of any kind with jail. And so we started visiting him in jail, and then in prison, we went to all of his court hearings. And God just has a really surprising way of making a family sometime. Yeah, we were just we were becoming a family. We were practising being a family, and that's how it all kind of happened. However, when he was released from prison, you know, he came to live with us. He has a room in the basement. You know, he had a cigarette Vina's ear and his Inkster, Ron. And so we're trying to, you know, we're trying to parent an adult issue. Yeah, at the time. But also, you know, we're parenting this kid who had who had really not been parented before. Right. And so we were all just a disaster literally cannot imagine my gosh, it was. It was a lot. It was a lie and and you know, but we just this is long haul stuff, you know. So we just may mistakes along the way, and we screamed in custody other sometimes and we, it was just every emotion was heightened. It was winter here, so we're all cooped up else. It makes you your own brand of crazy. Yeah. Yeah. But you know, this is health families grow together. I mean, this is this is what God used to just really tighten us up. And yeah, it's been a beautiful thing in a very stressful things sometimes. So I mean, without question I. I actually learned so much kind of watching you navigate that and a new still are. It's not as if it's over right now. It's all solved. I might not silly. But I really was moved by the way that you did this. I'm I, what I particularly loved that you that you showed us. In fact, I'm just gonna jump ahead. We're jumping ahead. We're gonna and I'm gonna come back and then we'll get back to their minute. But this is a quote out of your book that's about to come out ministry of ordinary places, which as you know, I love. This is something that you said and I watched you do this, particularly, you've Nestle it here in the context of neighbors. I watched to do this in your own home to you said, our purpose is not so mysterious after all, we get to love and be loved deeply right will replanted by whoever happens to be near. We will inevitably encounter broken us. We cannot fix solve or understand, and we'll fill a small, uncertain and outpaced as we have ever felt, but we'll find our very lives in this calling to be among people as Jesus was, and it will change everything I, this is your message and you've lived it. And so I trust you and you know, I think a lot of my listeners and frankly, probably a lot of your readers to are still in that space of life in parenting where there is at least the illusion of control that if we, if we put the right ingredients and the soup pot, we're going to get the guaranteed outcome that we're. Hoping for and certainly our involvement in it that if it goes sideways, well, we can fix it or we can solve it or we can put the right steps into play in somehow get to tidier ending. And one thing that I really love about watching you live and lead is that you just dismantle that because it's not true and anybody who's lived life will tell you. It's not true that that just that slowly dissipates in our hands like sand. And so I, I, I'm proud of you and I thank you for kind of having the courage to say that do ever feel or have you felt tempted to two formulas it all to to offer more scripts and more apps. You don't mean that a lot of people want that from their leader, spiritual leaders specifically, I mean, I want to from or from any else who has. I mean, the thing is that you know, I understand that because when we adopted. Silas and brought him home. He was the ruby was newborn. Calvin was an infant than silence was eighteen months old, and you know to so many people that's like, oh, he's a little baby and he was. But for us, you know, after I Hadda options were like these help us little infants. I remember thinking like he's grown like he needs an appointment. Just kind of carries himself in that way. But you know, he, he came with a different sort of pain and a different sort of grief, or, you know, he was just able to articulate it and express it in a more palpable way. And so we felt that and we felt it for years and you know, parenting him has been a really wild ride. And that's what I think parenting Silas has been the thing that sort of set us up for number one, we realized with him for the first time he, he was our entryway into walking towards somebody's paying in in the most literal and basic sense like it was like, we now have this grieving toddler who is kind of afraid of us in his wants to go home. And I just remember having this overwhelming feeling of like kid we, I'm so sorry, but we're were all you've got right now, and we've got a, you know, there was no option at that point to just other than to just like to just nosedive straight into his pain, his trauma, and I didn't know at the time that that was going to really serve us well down the road. But when when it's Robert, it's this whole new scale of really understanding and sometimes painful ways. Like it is not my job to ensure his self vacation or his fame, or you know, like I heard somebody talk once during that time and it, it really struck me. But you know, it was. It was an another person in the world and internet or whatever. And she was saying, you know, people disagree with certain things about my life, but my kids are serving the Lord. And that's how I know that I'm a good mom, and I remember standing in the aches sitting ready and I'm thinking like. Oh, man. It's just a matter of really, really trying to parent with open hands because that's how we can do and robber is not walking with the Lord right now, and it's not something that is important to him and we just love him. We love him. We love him and God is God's doing his own thing and Roberts heart. And we just have to stand back and let it unfold. That's to sit like at the end of that at the end of the line, it is this moment of kind of surrender where we finally just have to fully admit, oh, this is just, this is literally all I can do here. This is not under my control and I have to release my white knuckle grip on it, and it will be what it's going to be. And that moment I think is hard for women in general. I, I think we've we've, it's been suggested us that we can we can do better than that, right, right. We can. We can hang on tight enough and pull the reins fierce enough that we will steer the ship and and I just, I cry. Crave people to tell the truth in this space, which is why I listen to every word you say, because you tell the truth and and and there's really there's joy and beauty at two, it's not like, well, this is fake. Pretty news. All Shannon's is bad, hard news. That's not like that at all. It's just honest, and I'm drawn to it. So listen, let some, I'm gonna. We're gonna pull back a little bit sooner in your life. I wanna talk to a little bit about you as a writer and as a reader and. Tells you so teeny bit about when you were a kid when you were growing up, like what did that look like for you? And then specifically, how did reading and writing and books factor in when you were growing up? Yeah, I love this. I okay. So just like the broad picture of Shannon when she was a child, like picture somebody who grew eight inches when she was in. Oh my gosh and listen everybody. What you also need to picture is Shannon is, are you five? Eleven five, ten five ten became we'll we as a little tree and well. Okay, it's true. It's true. I mean and I don't know. I'm the only one of my failing. I'm this weird anomaly nobody else's tall. It's a, it's a whole thing. And so of course you know, all the jokes, my whole childhood. I've, I've heard them all. Own that to say like I was sort of directed into a more nerdy path. I think. I wasn't going to be. I was tall, but I, I don't have an athlete bone in my body, right? Which is, you know, that's really mention it at sad. I both this is we always have to part ways around sports. We'll come together around pickles and it's fine. There's always forget, it's fine. There's always food. Yes. So I was, I was very, I was always bookish. I was always a reader. I mean, my mom, you know, when I was in elementary school, my mom once my younger sister went to kindergarten. My mom went to school to become a nurse like she did that way roic amazing thing and started into nursing school fulltime and I, she would sometimes have me. I remember this clearly she would be laying in bed. I mean, she was just stressed the heck out all the time. Because she's got us three kit. She's doing the most all the time. Totally. And so she would sometimes have be read her nursing textbooks to her. Oh my gosh. Are you sitting fend. But I was just a good reader. Yeah. So yeah, I've, I've always been. I've always books in reading. I was just always that kid who was reading. Yeah. I mean, I we, we lived in a real out in the country outside of a tiny little village. So we had one little library with like one or two rows of teen romance novels and either of our them, they were all the same all the same. I'm I mean, I read the whole sweet Valley High series every book where saying, every same lead characters name, Heather, or Stephanie, all the same loved them, they'll have blonde hair. They all have to hear series. There were two of them with blonde hair. Jesse somebody, I don't know. But I mean, I, I read whatever I could get my hands on and so were always important part. My wife now writing for me did not happen until a lot later. I mean, I didn't. I didn't grow up at all thinking that I wanted to be a writer. I just wanted to read constantly. And so that's what I well. Okay. So let's pick up that thread because you when you were little, you described your ultimate fantasy as having a farmhouse. House? Yes. So you actually conjured that you did you that came about for you? I want to talk a little bit about how that piece of your life was sort of formed and came to being, and then how that rolled a little bit into flower patch. I mean, that's kind of the life that I grew up in. So I lived in my parents still live there in Ohio this this really beautiful. I mean to me, it's really beautiful. It's nothing special, but to me, it's still home super meaningful, but it was a white farmhouse on two acres. My dad was not a farmer. Sometimes we had cals and sometimes we had pigs when I was growing up, but we are not farm people, but we were country people and we were just, I remember my dad like he would credit hit that sweet depth thing of telling us often that he had the best three kids ever were often kind of connected that to where we live. And he would say like he would kind of he would kind of point to like, oh, you know, we're, we're out here on God's country and the, you know, you guys, you can't run off with your friends every time you want to. You know, we, we had a little bit of a buffer there and he in his mind and I don't. I don't necessarily carry. I don't hold that as necessarily being true, and he was also forgetting a lot of the terrible things we had done and would do in those moments, of course. But you know, he I think that was that was key for me and building this idea of like, oh, this is what kids need. What makes we're going back to that earlier. Question of like, what, what can we prescribe for our selves to to ensure that our kids don't make mistakes? And so I always kind of heard that message of like, you know, you live, you live out in the country and you know you're kind of way from things. And you know there is a little bit of kind of that fear. Of like the world happening, you know? So keep us kind of sa- quest a little bit as much as you can. But beyond that, I just, you know, I always feel like I'm kind of a farm girl her, like I just like that slower pace. I like farm e kind of rural things. You know, this is I grew up in a community that was just really centered around those things in valued them. And you know, just very salt of their people. And so along the way, I mean, I just decided like this is the life for me. This is the life. I wanna give my kids someday and you know, when Korean I got married, we lived in the crappy basement apartment for a while. And then we lived in Washington DC for awhile and worked on Capitol Hill and did some interesting things there. Then we moved back in Vinci we did. We did buy that that beautiful white farmhouse that I had dreamed of with the big wide porch in the long lane and the pastures and the everything. And at that point I just we really believed that we. We had arrived. Right. And so sort of in that space with those dreams readily in hand, you kind of picked up your pin. I mean, this has win Shannon. The reader kind of turned into Shane in the writer, and you started blogging really back when blogging was at its in its heyday. Right. And so you started flower patch? Farm girl. And, and what was it like for you? Like that season of writing and developing your voice in your style and your messaging and your audience? And I almost feels like a little bit of glittery magic time from the outside. I don't know what it was like on the inside. It was. I think it was a really precious time in my life. I had these two babies at that time. We had Calvin ruby. I think when we moved to the farm ruby had just turned a year old. So Calvin would have been, you know, year and a half older than that. So they're both little. So I started that blog and you know, it's, it's kinda one of those. Stories where I remember it was like New Year's Eve, like what could be more New Year's Eve thing to do than to turn a blog that is such. Remember I, I mean, I feel like I've been saying ten years ago for fifth time. Right? I mean, what have been? I mean, it was probably some little just say some around ten years ago. Okay. Yeah. And Corey had finally gone to bed that night, and I just remember sitting there and thinking, you know, open up, you know, you find out what where to blog, or how did you. And I. Right typing into the like pick your name because nobody had their actual name, a ride. Everything was cutesy everything, and you will appreciate this because the first thing I top I was, you know, it's one o'clock in the morning and I'm thinking, okay, what should I call this? What do I like? So I type in search bar. Foodie farm girl. He farm girl. I love this. I just can't believe that's not what it was. Well, it would have been, but somebody already had taken it. Okay, crap. That doesn't work so. Okay. What else do I like? Well, I like flowers. Yeah, stream-of-consciousness. Alliterate helps type it in and there it is. And that was my name from them. I gave it thought than that, right. Forty, five seconds for years after that. I mean, I remember I remember thinking like, I'm just going to out myself in all of my insanity and weirdness, but I remember really believing like that with that moment was inspired by the Lord. It's like. Never be a better name than flowers. That's right. This is delivered into my brain by the angels. I remember a couple of years prior to that create and I were on vacation, and I remember saying to him, I just wish there was a way to write about, like I was like trying to magin. I didn't even have the language for what a blog inventing blogging, inventing blogging on our cages like see school. If I like Joe picture of our clothesline right words about why white matter and then share it with the world. And so that's. Like my profile for blogging per totally why clotheslines matter. It's interesting. I like this part of your story because there was so much development in there at the time, so much writing development and craft development. Yeah, that's deeply tie that into a lot of your work. And and so it's interesting. Can you talk a little bit about health, all of this morphed forward in your life when you up rooted and I want to talk about that move to go Gauchan and then how sort of this work of yours gave way to falling free and how your content shifted so much as your life shifted. I, you know, I started to really during that time like I would. I started to see the world through photography and I am not a photographer at all. I mean, I don't. I learned the basics, Corey kind of got interested in photography during that time and started to get some better equipment. And I learned just enough, you know, this is sure smartphones, you know. So I had this big Hunkin DSL our camera and I learned I knew just enough to be dangerous within sure by slow my whole life, right. But I but I, I started to like I found that my writing during that time was really informed by the pictures. I was taking a lot of times. I mean gen- I was blogging an obscene amount like everyday and quite literally. I mean, hive and six times a week, and I don't even know how that was possible. Right actually seems insane now that you had toddlers in the house well, and I just don't know like, why did that? Why does he like a good idea? Much less like when did I do it? I mean, but what I, what I didn't realize was that I was, you know, my my voice as a writer was sort of blooming. I didn't know that. I mean, I had no rations of being a quote writer. I was just kind of messing. Around and having fun. You get to follow where it leads you, and they're just just a bit of freedom that you just described in there. That sounds really delightful. Actually, I mean, I feel like I spend a lot of my writing life now trying to recapture some of that, it's hard to do, you know. And I think that's where Instagram and things like that can really fill that gap because I think there is something just it's really beautiful to, like you said, like the stakes are really low and we get to just right. So I was writing a lot about like the early girth of my blog, strangely came through decorating blogs, right? So a couple of them kind of found me, you know, I'm really not strangely. By the way. I want people to know that they're listening. You're gifted at this and say what you want. You have a really creative. I and a really specific design point of view, and it is enchanting. Well, thank you. Yeah. I mean, that's something that I've always really enjoyed. And so that's where people started to find me. Through some of those things not long after that we like Corey, and I just had our world just completely rocked. And I mean, all of this is in falling free. And so there's just there's really too much to even go into all of it here, but we just came to a pretty pivotal moment and our faith of realizing that you know, God had more for us and his more for us was going to look like less. From that point. We did put that firm house on the market and in really it's, it's interesting to think back because a lot of my blog readers at the time they had become really attached to my farm of, but I didn't really understand that. I remember thinking like, why do you get like? I'll still be blogging. Why is kind of upset about this? You don't even know me, but this power, this is the power of writing I didn't. I wasn't really aware of at the time. So yeah, we sold. We sold that farm and we moved to just a very ordinary kind of shabby. Pretty overlooked, low income neighborhood in a nearby city. I mean, we didn't move far. We moved twenty minutes away, but it was like a whole new world for us. Totally. And at that point, like you know, the shift had started to happen in the months leading up to our move when everything is kind of stirring inside of us in, you know, during that time we brought Silas home. So that was just a whole new layer of feelings and emotions processing things. I, my writing took a pretty sharp turn during that claim. But again, I mean, I wasn't thinking through the lens of a business woman. I wasn't thinking through the idea of a brand, or you know what expect for me. I was just writing my guts out which is which is what I had kind of learned to do. And so I went from writing. You know, cute kids what I making for dinner and Kurt curtains, yes, to like grappling deeply with, like with like really deep questions of the soul about fan in about finances and about community. And so that shift had started kind of happen. We moved to the city, and that's the point where I felt like, okay, these things are coming together, you know? And that point I kind of knew that writing was was kind of taking on a life of its own within me. Like at that point, I was, I remember talking to my friend and I think your friend is well Emily Freeman, and I had a conversation with her in person. And I said, you know, if I'm ever a writer and she just like hard stop. Shut your mouth. He maims just living. They're real hard like look me in the eye. You are a writer now, and I remember like what I. So I'm really grateful for those words because you our words that that we speak into people's lives. They take one hundred percents and they matter. So yeah, you know, I look back now and I say, I found my voice in the country, and then I found my story in the city. That's so good on my kind of came together and in the train left the station at that point, I was apart of your reader community as you were going through that too. And because you wrote through that season with such sincerity and without any agenda, you're not like an agenda kind of writer. That comes to true, and so you didn't. It didn't feel jarring didn't scare. Most of us off course not me, but I think a lot of your reader stayed because you were our person who had built the farm world for us out of words, and it was sort of that sane touch that was bringing us into the city with with honesty with angst, and it was, I couldn't look away to be honest and and everybody listening. If you haven't read it, this is the story that Shannon kind of writes in her first book which is called falling free. I wrote the forward for it, believe in it so much and, and it's lovely, and it's not prescriptive. And so I don't want you to think I don't need to give me steps on. No, it's not that adult two story and it's really profoundly wonderful. Hey, guys wanted to follow up on something. We've been talking about these past few weeks while we've been in this very, very amazing for the love of books series. You've probably heard me talk about author school and I hope you were able to get signed up, but maybe the timing wasn't right. Maybe you're right on the cusp of that big leap into pursuing publishing, but you feel like you just need to do the time in earn your stripes, I. So that's you. There are two great options from the same team behind author school that I want you to consider. The first is the clumsy bloggers workshop, which is a six week course that will teach you how to start your own blog, share your words and grow your own community. There's also author blog, which is a resource to help writers like you design a website. Specifically for authors, whether you're fiction or nonfiction writer, their websites are built to help you sure your words grow your platform. Instill your books. So you can take advantage of both of these incredible resources by going to author school dot com slash Jin hat maker. So when you use that link just for our for the love podcast listeners, there's also a built in ten percent discount for both of those services. So you'll get a little love from us to start you on your way to realizing you're writing drains because you guys know what I always say. There is always more room at the table if you have a dream to right if you have a story to tell it's time to tell it, I believe in you, I believe in your work, I believe in your potential. So visit author school dot com slash Jin hat maker today to take advantage of these two phenomenal services for authors. Want to go back to something you were just talking about when you were talking to Emily. Again, I know that a lot of my listeners already read your work if for no other reason that I've seen like, I'm just constantly putting you in front. I've literally put you in always, here's my French and you're not reading her your. But what if they're new to you, what I do want them to know and I would love for us to talk about this for just a minute. Before we move into ministry, near places is Jill. And I've said this to you and said this about you a hundred times, you are a writer's writer. And so the mere fact that you would ever say if I'm ever writer makes me wanna throw my head back and cackle like a witch. I mean, you are a writer's writer, so not only do you love books, but you obviously write from a place of someone who cherishes the process who cheers his the choosing of words, the way a story can be unfold. Like just literary magic you you do, and so you are good writer, and so I would like to know more about your process. How do you write best? What does that look like for you and then young timidly? How did you navigate your way into what looks like more traditional. Publishing in like books that are on a shelf that people can buy with their cash. So when I came to the city and to the neighborhood, I mean, there is a shift that had to take place where I had to sort of retrain my vision or find a new lens for seeing this. I just remember getting here and thinking like, okay, you're, we are thrilled to be here. It's exciting now I, it is like vital that I, that I begin to find this beautiful. And so took some intention there because and in my heart just wanted it ahead to be intentional about it. But I also like for for the life of my soul and for my writing. I mean, I just started walking around and doing what I did in the country. Like I'm just going to go for walks and I'm gonna take pictures of things. And as I did that, you know that that place in me sort of turned towards the idea that that we really can find God's goodness in his beauty, any old place. We look. Look, I mean, it's there, it's around us, and so that's always been. That's always been meaningful for me to look, you know, to look at my surroundings and then like almost kind of I've never thought of this enroll formal ways. I've never taken a writing class ever. A lot of ways. I feel like I don't really know what I'm doing here, but just to. To kind of do that thing that seems kind of writer. We may be like, okay, what does this make me feel? What am I feeling look at this picture and what does that mean? And you see, kind of for me, I've always kind of started with the imaging built my way out a lot of this. Now, as far as like going a little bit about my publishing journey, I remember you know, writer on the time the first year or two that I was here in this house. We've been here for six years now and around that time a lot of what I would consider like my colleagues other writers of their bloggers. They were just shooting to the moon with felt for. That's right. And a lot of them had the story of like. Somebody approached me and offered me a book deal, or you know an agent reached out to me and asked me if I would write a book and and I was seeing that happen all around me and I was not seeing it happen to me, and I had to really grapple with that and to to really at that point, I was kind of that was something that I was hoping for, and you know, kinda wishing for and I started to come to the place of like, okay, it's not gonna happen for me like nobody's beating my door. And so I took a much more traditional path into publishing. So time just kept passing and I just kept. I kept blogging. I just kept doing my thing. You know, in those spare moments of life and doing it because I loved it and because I needed it and some point, you know, somebody connected me with an agent and we were done writing a proposal and we submitted it to publishers. And you know it was all the very sort of traditional way for me. Yes. I know. I remember being your drum really, really hard because there was some sort of arbitrary system in place at the time when there were such a plethora of writers who had found their space invoice online and and it just I remember just thinking this Phil so clear, this is this person needs to put books on our shelves. This writer, you know, I think that I, I mean. Site you will may not specifically that's real and and I were better for it. We're better for your work and and you're set a good writer, like I care about that you to. I care about it. I love a good story. I adore a good message, but when it is packaged in good writing, that's it Lamey out. I'm done before can me. I mean, well, and that is not go without saying that that is how I mean, I found you like we kind of found each other through this time. I will never forget. I mean, it was right in between, you know, we lived in a rental house for a little bit in between and that's where I mean, that's where I found you the things you writing about. I mean, you know, that's when I, that's when kind of you know, I talk about my what I'm writing about taking a shift, and I really pretty quickly in a way that that probably gave some people little bit of whiplash. I started writing about some pretty like heavy hitting things, so really did because I help it now I know why. Now I know about the any agreement at all, but just here, let's talk about the prison or the scroll to prison pipeline. Everybody bullet a chair. The same time like I would do and be like an also. This is the recipe of what I making for dinner team. I, I mean, I just and you still do I do. I just didn't know any other way at. So I just know just brought this whole. My eyes were being opened in such a shocking way to injustice. I mean, for as long as we had lived life trying to to make our life as comfortable and safe and peaceful as pliable. It was like the lid blew off and now I'm now I'm really waking up to injustice and I have, no, I have no option, but to write about no and still making dinner too because that's something to do. So there's also, yeah, I know I don't. We don't have to just select one line item. You do get to live a whole life in an integrated life, which sometimes includes dinner and sometimes includes jail, right? Like it's it's that's not necessarily an easy. Needle to thread. But it does bring us to the ministry of ordinary places which comes out up Tober topper night out. And I wanna talk about it for just a minute because you, we really get a front row seat to what you've learned in the last six years in the city and. What what you've discovered and how your heart is being formed. And, and I really love the approach, which is. This is what we do. This is what we're, but here's how we live our life. We live ordinary lives alongside people who don't necessarily look or think or believe like we do, and we're not scared of that and we don't remain distant from that or cold from that or afraid of that. And and so this I can't think of, I literally cannot think of anything we need more than this right now. I can't think of it when I am looking around at our culture right now and just it's frayed at the edges. I mean, it is absolutely frayed and I think this would bring us back to center. I think this was would bring us back to the table. And so I wonder if just for a minute, you can talk about it. Talk about the book a little bit. Talk about your service. The would what has to tell us what we can expect out of that. You know, I think that's where really the heart of the book was born was that I was having more and more of those moments that you just described that were like, this is. Is a disaster, you know, like looking around. I mean, I remember one morning showing up. This is a couple of years ago. And I showed up at the coffee shop where I spend a lot of time. It's like my satellite office. I go there and write and whatever. And there was a friend of mine also there and we just sat, we just gravitated to the same table. We did not mean to meet up, but we did and we just had their, we cried. I mean, I just like I was having more those moments of like, I don't know what to do with this like the problems feel so big. And I feel so small and you know, I'm feeling all of it and I'm feeling the and you, you know, it's easy to either. Just like throw your hands up in surrender like, oh, well, this is too big and I'm just me. So I'm not going to worry about it. It's easy to just feel overwhelmed or unsure, you know, all of these emotions came in and every time that happened, I walked away from from that from having coffee with my girlfriend and thinking this, is it like the this, the bomb, the Sav to some of this. You know, this just high level anxiety and worry is to just be with the people around us in as meaningful ways we can. And so that's the bottom line again. Yeah, if we can bring ourselves down out of the clouds of of fear and stress and Mayan fracture and get low to the ground, like really come down to street level and look around and added that even the clouds of control and savior mentality, and I will redeem the neighborhood single-handed and this sort of us in them. Space to like that is an equal taste? Absolutely. None that none of that has any, right? That's right. Yeah. I mean, wouldn't look around. I mean that that became kind of my mantra after moving to the neighborhood. You know, after the excitement wears off or after you know, we were, we were excited nervous. We, you know, we didn't know why we're here because we knew, you know, we've learned so much over the past six years of being here, but coming in, we didn't know allot, but we knew that we weren't here to plant a church or to start yet. They were to start a bible site and we knew, but, but all that's fine and good until you settle in. And this slowly becomes the new normal. And I just remember like, okay, now, what and now like, right. I felt the impulse of like, what's the tax I need to go drum up some business to find something to do. We found that our life in the neighborhood while our. While our eyes were being open to so many things. I mean, I, you know, I say all the time that my neighbors have changed my life because they just have. I mean, they live. They have stories that are just unbelievable. They've lived incomprehensively hard lives. A lot of our friends are, you know, they're, they're coming out of incarceration, they're wrestling through addiction know they've grown up in generational poverty. They're they're newcomers to our country. I mean, all of these things are true, and so our lives are just, you know, we're just we're just sitting here learning to listen and play, catch up and learn totally, but but there's something really meaningful about, you know, when I hit that wall of like, okay, now this is starting to feel comfortable. Is that bad in interesting. Again, you know, an every time. I just thought that the answer was to just really pay attention and it sounds so basic, but to get really intentional about. But looking around and what I, what I started to see was a lot of these problems that I felt like, well, I can't do anything about that. They would kind of prison themselves in my place world in small way. It's like, you know, these problems that are in the news cycles and in our Twitter feeds or whatever. If you boil them down a lot of times, we can see a similar pain, right? Where we are in our neighborhood. Sure. And like you said that at that point, it's not a matter of like, well, I guess I'm going to fix this purse run, but what it what it really is is like really drawing near to that person really drawing near to the person around you, the people around you and and learning to love them like really called to do, and it's not hard. I mean, that's what I find these are. It's not hard to love my neighbors. It's an, it's very rich and rewarding and humbling to really be loved by them to learn to risks. Nieve. From them know to not to not always be the giver, but to be early receiving them. I mean, that was just it. It just changed everything for us. It changed the way we think we started to to really kind of pick apart our faith and figure out what needed to stay in what needed to go and put it back together. And I mean it just it changed everything. Tell me just tell me a little bit more about your neighbors. Like what's your favorite stories about your neighbors that you included in the book? Well, this is kind of a, you know, writing can sometimes be a little bit magical and let me first start off by saying like, I, I do not take lightly sharing any part of my neighbor stories in any of you don't. You don't. Oh, I know you don't like the. It's the tension that I hope I always carry with trembling hands, but it's it's it's pretty meaningful because the people that I that I write about their their, my truest and closest friends. I mean they are right exactly people that we see many times a week that are in our home. We're in their homes, and so it's, you know, it's important for me to to go to them and say, like, here's what I wrote, are you okay with this home to change your name? Or do you want your regular day? And I have to do that all the time. It's important. That's just because we write about the people that we and we read about the people that our lives. So yes, of course, to tell these stories to tell them you're in, you know, with a lot of tenderness, but we find in Corey, finds this with his friends at the jail, like they're just by and large. They're super excited to be appear of it, and they generally want their their real names to be used, their name used, and he takes pictures in the jail. If. If the guys haven't been sent sentence, they have to cover their face up like you can't show them a whole book in front of their face or whatever. But corey's like we had to take this picture twenty times because people dropping the book on purpose. So, yeah. Well, people I wrote and falling free about a couple of our friends. And at the time I, I didn't know them well, and I wrote it as just a very kind of like a side story that my house one day doing my thing I'm in the face were pretty desperate to get to know my neighbors. And I hear this this rowdy band of like chaos walk past my living room windows. And what I determined into -cerned was that they had a child who needed who needed a bathroom stat, like right at it. And so I flew out the door I had, no, I've never seen these people before, and I said, do you want to use my bathroom? They did. And so you know, I ended up like sticking in my mouth during that time, and that was really the last time I saw them like it was just they were our neighborhood as full of rental properties. They were renting and then they were gone. Not so long after that, you know a couple of years after that I was in church, and this woman came up to me and was like, hi, she suddenly knew who I was and she knew who I was because she had just been to jail and was now out of jail, but had read my book while she was in jail. The whole thing was nonsense crazy, right? How fast forward into the writing of this book and they're like a humongous part of my life. It say, are tremendously dear and special people. They're, they're coming up on a year of sobriety. Both of them right now. He's just had. A new adorable little baby and they're the family that just moved into the new jail hostile health. So this is where I see like, you know, let's not despise really ordinary things and really ordinary grants like it sounds so trite but, but that that impulse that I had to just like offer them my bathroom. Yeah, it came full circle and that's where I, I also key into the the truth of like it matters when we can commit to something for the long haul, like they had lived in entire lifetime from from falling free to the ministry of ordinary places. They came back. We were still here. And I did know that we'll always be here. I kinda hope we are keep kind of throwing that out to God. Whenever I have the opportunity lake, we sure you're wishing say on the record. Sure. But I thinking really meaningful about, you know, until we're told otherwise to just really to really stick around because sometimes just just being present available, it really is the most important thing we can do. I can't agree more any. No, I was with you on your proposed book. Title involves that beautiful turn of phrase, which was love song for the long haul, and I just think it's profoundly simple if I could juxtaposed to such words I and you talk about this at great length to as you engage your church, which is also in you hood. And of course, we've got a immediately dispel so much of the church development content that we are fed. Which is bigger shinier, fancier, sexier, and and become a people who love are weird, clunky awkward, little church and just say, we just stay and we day and and there's something so holy in it and just so they'll so sacred to me feel so grounded in good, and and you do this to you. This is this is your ministry of staff and of presence and bathrooms. And I mean these, this is the stuff of life and so I, I love his. What would you say that? I mean, it's hard, isn't it? I know it's hard to speak for them, but what do you think your kids have learnt in Gauchan in the last six years? You know, of course it's the formative part of childhood. If they're gonna say for, especially for Silas and even ruby, this is really all there ever. I mean, rubies kind of members under they both kind of have these. Silence still calls our farmhouse the house with a lot of cats. We had bars. Well, now over a lot of cats, we were the cat Jericho. So I knew they kind of remember it, but, but this is an even, you know, Calvin was in second grade when we moved here. I mean, like you said, their formative years have happened here and my hope I'm always like, who knows how this is going to shake out, you know, totally them. We're going to go all in on this summer going to grow up in, say, boy, they just screwed it all up and got it wrong. We're going to be the opposite, like I have, I have no no predictions because like we said earlier, like we're not the boss of this. This isn't my job. I'm doing the best that I can. And I hope that where I grew up, I had a beautiful childhood, but it was a very homogenous existence that I was in. I mean, everybody looked like me, everybody believe like me. Everybody was the same sort of working. In class to middle class. I mean, I and I have amazing parents. So I, I don't want to put this too heavily on them, but I just I absorbed the idea that there were good people and they were bad people and that I should stay away from the bad people. And the I was one of the good people, and I hope that you know living in this in this neighborhood and in this community for one thing. I mean, you know, my kids, my kids were all adopted. I have Brown kids and black kids, right? But I hope that they are really saying just a truer and wider picture of the kingdom. That's really like fundamentally. My base hope is that is that they see a very wide representation of the image of God and and of who carries that image of God and that they can also see. Ear people who were were just Korean are always amazed by the humility of some of our friends that there's just there's no pretense. They're not trying to hide their pass. They're not trying to be sneaky or put on any errors. And what that does is it invites us to do the same. It invites us exactly right up the mass to be who we are in all of our own walking us and the ways we feel misfit to talk about our mistakes. It just invites a real level of vulnerability and authenticity. And that's that's stuff that I hope my kids carry on and they will. I deeply believe that that is all caught just because it's the air they breathe. It's not that you're sitting down and doing your family divas. You know, it's not that never gonna work in families like ours have ver- Mike. Mike, sprouted talk about having spicy family like we are. We are very much with and this is the. The cars we've been dealt and they're pretty fun cards. So the fun car, I want them the cards. But what it just means is we have to build a life in a world and a neighborhood in collectively that our kids will see an experience not just here and so I, I'm, I'm cash chips there. We'll see. It's too soon for, like you said, no push actions will a crapshoot will. They will stick no idea. But I, you know, I just I love your life and I respect you, in course so much and I love following you, love learning from you. I, I find your voice so truthful in good, and and I can suss that out, like I, I know when that's not the case, and and so I'm just so grateful that you are continuing to be afforded new ways to bring your voice in your story to the. Of us that your work is growing because I want people to read it and experience it. And so I'm excited for you. I'm excited about this book. I can't wait. It's about to come out and as you know, I will. I will stand on my chair and I will do all the chairs I will do kick. I can't, and I can't either actually, maybe I'll take a picture of that lemme ask three questions as we wrap this up. This is what we're asking. Everybody in the book series. Here's person. What's the first book that you ever read where you distinctly remember? Oh my gosh, that had a serious impact on me. You know, I would have to say for me, it was a, it was a particular author, and her name is Elizabeth Berg. I think I have harped on you before about her work, and if you haven't yet, she's a row, prolific. Women's fiction writer, her body of work. I've read every single book she's written and she's pretty, you know, she there for. A while she was, she was come out with a book a year. Her writing style like she is the author that kind of made me think maybe this writing thing was a cool idea, Jen. She writes about food like you would not believe. I mean, she writes characters that you just love with. It's easy reading, and so sometimes people get snobby about that. I'm all for like a really compelling easy read in a picture. She kind of showed me what it looks like to write like the true heart of a character to not get so much. She's a beautiful writer. She's for real legit. Okay, that's fine. Listen, everybody will lint all her stuff so you can experience magic. How about this? What's one book in your life? I can't remember if you and I have talked about being readers. What's one book in your life that you have read over and over? There are only a few. I'm not a big reader high feel like if you plumbed the depths of your soul, you would know the answer to this minister anyway. It is. Okay, easily tattoos on the heart. Of course. Of course, of course, it is that there are a couple of novels that I down called love walked in, and, oh, I know you and I'm. And stay with Santos. Damn Santa's love her, right. Air is one by, is it Curtis? No, no, wrong author. I don't know there. They're a couple of novels that I the solace of leaving early by haven Kennedy. Those are couple novels that I've read and some Elizabeth Burgh, but tattoos on the heart is light. Yeah. I mean, I could. That could really be my answer to any. Yeah, reading question. I read that because if you solely. And he is a spectacular gift to this planet is so so special. One last twist on Barbara Brown's question. What do you have a book right now that a saving your life there? Couple. First of all, I, I feel like all my all my answers to be like, well, part one. Hey, I'm really, really digging and appreciating and loving and learning from the very good gospel by we share. Oh, yeah, totally. I, you know, when I'm finding these books, I'm like Haskell to Corey like, okay, this is Corey does clips in the jail Allott and I'm just become over the past year. I have been really intentional about reading. From people of color like to really, I've n it's interesting how hard we have to try sometimes to do that. Like that's always it's absurd. It is forever a lesson to me of like, you know, it shouldn't require quite so much intention -ality, but it kind of does until we can into. We can change that as a loose on her book was really pivotal for me. And then from there, I mean, I had read the new Jim crow, that was just fantastic. Have you read anything by jesmyn ward? No, my gosh, give me a title. So I might know title and another one that I loved from her and it was a recent Rita minutes kind of a hard read. So I don't know how you like it. You know, it's talking about more like gritty sorts of things. But for me as the mom of robber like it was sure, but the one that I loved was called the men we reap or men, we re too, and it's a powerful title that's memoir that's memoir is. I mean, she's fantastic. I mean the hate you give fantastic white if and I had Lisa Sharon Harper on the podcast and we talked about her book and her work and to this day. I mean, that was probably two or three months ago. We're still getting emails still of people saying my mind is blown. Oh yeah, I've never heard anybody say some of that. I four. I never picked up any of those threads ever and you're right. It's really, I'm pretty sure I texted you after that one. Like what is happening in that? I. Listen to it again with Corey. I've sent it to my parents who don't know how to listen to a podcast, so whatever crying blessing. Everybody should go back and listen to that. Again. She are brilliant woman who inspires so much action like just believe Corey nicely whole thing that we try to operate under his. You know, the way we spend our love is the way we spend our lives. It's good. Okay. Listen, real quick. Tell everybody just where they can find you what you're working on now. All that good stuff. Yeah. So I block still. I mean, you know. Not five to six a week every now, and then I still do blog at Shannon, Martin writes dot com. I'm very active on Twitter and Instagram. They are both by equal favorites, and I'm at Shannon rights there and it's SHA an a. n. rights. Yeah, my book is available for preorder right now. And so you can find all the information and download gorgeous free artwork from as stunningly talented artist, Amanda Evanston that at ministry of ordinary places dot com. It's easy to find she's special had. I didn't know her until I started seeing you post up about her really fabulous. And if you're listening and you're like at the gym or wherever whatever you're doing when you listen to podcast, if you go over to Jenny maker dot com, we'll have literally all of this linked all of Shannon, socials the book side, everything, everything everything. Okay. Well, you know, I just I just love you so, and I love your family and I love your life, and I'm just so glad to be your sister in your friend. And so thank you for this labor of love of putting this next book into the world. It's going to be a true gift, and I cannot wait for everybody to read it and love it and be moved by it. And so thank you for being on today. Thank you so much. I loved it. Have a good day, move her, love her. Love her. Love her dearly. She is a good egg good Ag. So like I mentioned everything. She talked about all of her spaces, social sites, books, recommendations will have all linked over at jn, had maker dot com. Underneath the podcast tab where my amazing system partner, Amanda builds out a transcript page for you every single week that I hope you are taking advantage of it is phenomenal. Not only can you find the written interview, but it's bonus content and pictures and links and everything could possibly want built around that conversation. So it is a tool that we are delighted to provide for you, and I hope that you are absolutely enjoying it. My team at I love working for you. We love bringing you these guests in these amazing this amazing content every week. That is my producer Laura and her crew who work so much and so hard on this. So anyway, thank you for being here week in and week out. I, as I mentioned at the top of the show, I'm very proud of this community. I'm very proud of my listeners. I'm not afraid to put anybody in front of you. I know that you will treat their stories with respect in with intelligence with care. And so thank you prefer being fabulous and sharing podcast all the time you do that so much and for subscribing and for rating reviewing that, so great fresh, you guys and we are great full grateful, grateful, grateful. Next week's going to be fine. You're not gonna wanna miss it. So a comeback, we have plenty more where this all came from. So in the meantime, have a fabulous week. Hey, guys, we're back for another segment of Jin's favorite things. So this is the part of the show where I share about some wonderful companies that are producing amazing products and giving back to charitable organizations in really worthy nonprofits. Plus they have exclusive discounts in extras just for you. Our podcast listeners. So here today's favorites. Calling all makers and creates Jennifer. All we can show you how to turn your creative hobby into a business. Jennifer has an online coaching group called the creators inner circle, and she has reserved spots just for you. My listeners visit creators inner circle dot com. Slash Jin hamburger to learn more. That's it for today. Show hope you enjoyed this chat researched subscribe to my mom's podcast and give it thumbs up rating if you like it for the whole hat maker family. I hope you have a great week and see you next time.
For the Love with Jen Hatmaker Podcast
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Reports allege Trump concealed details of Putin meetings from senior officials
Yeah. From everything I see has no respect for this person. Well, that's because he rather have a puppet as president and okapi day. No, it's pretty clear. It's pretty clear you won't admit Russians. Good morning and welcome to AM joy. Well, there's probably nothing more triggering for Trump's base than the suggestion that Hillary Clinton is right about something. But her prognosis back in twenty sixteen that Trump was a puppet for Putin. Sure. Looks a lot more plausible after two job dropping reports from this weekend alone, the first from the New York Times reporting that the F B I opened a counter intelligence inquiry into whether Trump was secretly working for Russia. And now the second bombshell this time from the Washington Post reporting, the Trump, quote has gone to extrordinary links to conceal details of his conversations with Russian President, Vladimir Putin, and that on at least one occasion, Trump took possession of the notes of his own interpreter. And instructed the linguist not to discuss what had transpired during his chat with Putin with other administration officials the White House has now had. Thirty eight hours to respond to the New York Times story. And even if the initial shock made it hard for them to figure out what to say how to explain that thirty eight hours later, no one in the administration, including Trump himself has been able to utter the simple phrase, of course, the president isn't working for the Kremlin. Instead what we've seen these weird umbrage filled. Non denials porta hemp Hempel. Here is Trump's lengthy non denial response to his pal Janine Pirro on Fox News last night. Are you now or have you ever worked for Russia? Mr president. I think is the most insulting thing I've ever been asked. I think it's the most insulting article I've ever had written. But you look at what's going on. You know, I fired James Konia. Call them lion James Komi bag because he was a terrible liar. And he did a terrible job as the FBI. Hillary the folks in Russia, I've been tougher on Russia than anybody else. Any other probably any other president period, including that, we're doing oil like we've never done it with setting records in our country with oil and exporting oil and many other things I it was great insult. And the New York Times disaster as paper, it's a it's a very horrible thing. They said, okay. Just a TV. No, our producers cut that down from a two minute answer. Okay. To answer by Donald Trump. And in case, you're counting. It was three hundred and forty nine words that Trump spoke three hundred and forty nine words, none of which were the word. No. Let's bring in our mega panel to break. This all down joining me now Frank Figliuzzi MSNBC national security analyst and former assistant director for counterintelligence at the FBI, Jill wine, banks, former assistant Watergate special prosecutor Natasha Tron of the Atlantic. Maya Wiley, senior vice president for social Justice at the new school and Evelyn Farkas MSNBC national security analyst Frank coming to you. I thank you for being here in person. We now have you in person yesterday we head to call in because we just wanted to talk to you about this. What do you make of the fact that in thirty eight hours since this story broke says I spoke with you about it on the Rachel maddow's show, the White House, his lawyers and Donald Trump himself have yet to utter the phrase, of course, the president is not working for Russia. Joy, I'm thinking, you might have a future in the FBI interrogation techniques in psycholinguistics because you're right. If you study, the responses if you study, the White House reaction, and you study the cliff that you just the clips that you just played you don't have an all out denial, and it it really raises eyebrows. If you're someone who's in the interview and human survey Shen business something's troubling about that. And let's remember that as we continue to move forward. The F B I opened this case a long time ago with suspicions. But let's look at what's happened since then as recently as the last two weeks, I still see the president sending signals that he's still joined at the hip with Russians, for example, the statement that Russia was right quote unquote to go into Afghanistan, for example, the briefing last week by secretary of treasury. Mnuchin that Nancy Pelosi described as perhaps the worst briefing she's ever received where he talked about softening sanctions on Russians. We're still seeing that kind of Zohar unexplainable cozying and covering for Russia. It is bizarre and. Let me let me go to my wife. I I'm gonna go to go to lawyer if this was a legal case, and you had a defendant who when asked the very simple question did what you just heard us. He talked about everything else. Donald Trump went into every area. You can think of every person he's ever disliked. But he never said he didn't actually do it. It was the client or or or a defendant. What would you make of the fact that he simply didn't deny and let me just give you what the White House just for a little background for folks have been paying attention to as closely. This was have the White House originally respond to the story the Washington Post story, so outrageously inaccurate doesn't even warrant a response. Liberal media's ways to two years trying to manufacture fake losing scandal. Said report in the fact that unlike President Obama, they hit President Obama, let Russian other foreign adversaries push American around President Trump has been accident on Russia that was something Trump that I'm on Russia on on on Russia. And now here is the director, Mike Pompeo. On face the nation. The notion that President Trump is a threat to American national security is absolutely ludicrous. The idea that's contained in the New York Times story that President Trump was threat to American national security is is silly on its face and not worthy of a response. And I'm sorry. He's former former CIA director and current secretary of state might pump hail. What would you make if a client or defendant, Maya Wiley was doing or their representatives? We're doing these things rather than just saying, I didn't do it. If it's my client. I think I have the world's worst witness that I don't ever want to be on a witness stand certainly not in front of a jury. Let alone a judge. I also if I'm on the other side, I think this is the worst attempt I have ever seen to distract me from probably one of the most serious allegations that could possibly be made. If you are the commander in chief and not the traitor in chief, the first and foremost thing you. Would do particularly knowing you're staring down the barrel of prosecutor's gun. Is you say, no, it is the only thing that comes to your mind. But in this case, what Donald Trump does is what he usually does and he dissemblers into distraction rather than facts. And he absolutely is a sitting president if he's going to be responsible looks dead in the eye of the American people and says, I absolutely gonna respond to this because it's ludicrous. He hasn't done that. Moreover, he can't given the facts of this case remember just to piggyback on something that Frank said, the F B I briefed Donald Trump of 'bout the possibility of Russians trying to infiltrate the campaign when he was nominated and became the Republican nominee his campaign had already had seven contacts with Russians. At that point. And they never despite the fact that the F B asked them to never then continued to report contact with Russians. It is bizarre. Evelyn Farkas I'm gonna come on this because to just build on what we've just heard from Franken, Maya the FBI was alerted to Donald Trump's weird behavior. Even during the campaign one piece of the New York Times story investigators had watched with alarm as the Republican party softened its convention platform on the crane crisis in a way that seemed to benefit Russia. It was the only change made to the RNC platform. There were no other changes requested by the Trump campaign only this, and it was the change to the Ukraine plant which had been strong on the idea that Russia should not have taken Crimea this softened. It was the only change they made item. This was alarm, so right? The Republican platform does not call for arming Ukraine against Russia, which spurred outrage that was actually a headline from July of twenty sixteen. In which that raised alarm even publicly right? Yeah. That now we now know that Donald Trump has taken calls and meetings with ladder Putin, including in Helsinki after that bizarre press conference, and here's an item from the Washington Post. And this is from Saturday US officials said there's no detailed record even classified files of Trump's face to face interactions with the Russian leader at five locations over the past two years such a gap would be unusual in any presidency. Let alone one in which Russia sought to install through what US intelligence agencies have described as unprecedented campaign of election interference the current occupant of the White House your thoughts. I mean, there's so much there joy, I don't even know where to start and I don't have enough time. But I mean, I on the platform. Remember Republicans were just as strong on voicing their concern about Russia being an adversary of the United States as as Democrats were and on the need to defend Ukraine. So it was highly unusual that coming out of the Republican convention. They had a softer platform than what President Obama was recommending because the Republicans on the hill, which obviously have been the Republicans at the convention. We're saying we need to do more to help Ukraine. So that was alarming. And then, of course, at the same time, you had newspaper counts of Roger stone of Carter page going and having these meetings in Russia people like me were highly alarmed at even the few quotes we had coming out of the Obama administration fast forward, then to President Trump having these meetings with Latimer Putin and not having staff present. I mean that is outrageous because you I mean, there's it's unprecedented. What he did there? And the fact that he then further. Directed the interpreters to not talk to anyone. And and apparently took notes took their notes on one occasion is again greater cause for concern. And you think to yourself who side is he on? So obviously, it's it's a huge problem. It's not surprising to those of us who have followed it. Let's play a last July. Okay. Just as an example of this. The director of national tells Dan Coats is at the Aspen institute about this healthy Helsinki meeting about these meetings took place without her putting one would think at least deny would know what happened in these meetings. But here's what he said. I don't know what happened in that meeting. I think his time goes by president is already mentioned some things that happened in that beating I think we will learn more. We have not learned more Natasha. We've not learned more what's going on. What is your reporting on the White House? Thirty eight hours is not been the best. It's not been they had not been covered in glory in their response. And they haven't seemed to know what to say, what are you hearing about whether or not we are ever going to find out what happened in that Helsinki meeting. I was in the room when Dan Coats was speaking to enter Mitchell at the Aspen security forum, and let me tell you. I mean, you could hear a pin drop people were just in shock that the director of national intelligence was not read into this that he didn't seem to know anything about the president was talking about with our biggest foreign adversary right now. And on top of that he also was not told that the president was actually planning to invite what Putin to the White House after everything that has occurred over the last two years after mounting evidence that Russia interfered in the election, and that President Trump may have actually played a hand in that in. Terms of the White House response. It's unsurprising that they would try to distract from the main points made in the times article, which is at the FBI. Of course was extremely concerned that the president might be either compromised by or an agent of Russia. I think it's really telling that the president would not respond to that question directly. When he was asked by judge Janine last night. I'm sure that she would just expecting him to say, no, I am not an agent of Russia. But he, of course, went off on this tangent. That ultimately made him look worse than it would have just one war point on the change in the Ukraine platform during the RNC convention. I did a lot of reporting on that. And I think it's really important that people realize that this was not something that was considered lightly by the Trump campaign. You had a man named JD Gordon who was kind of the national security advisor to the campaign at that time. And when he heard that this amendment was being proposed to the platform to the Ukraine platform that would require that would commit that the president and the Republicans would support arming Ukrainians against Russia. He. Jumped out of his seat, and he rushed up there. And he said we need to table this amendment now. So that I can make a call to New York where of course, Donald Trump's campaign was headquartered and run this by them know, why was he so concerned about why about the optics of this. Why was he so concerned that Trump would be very wary of having that contained in the platform that is that is a question, and it took a lot of prying before this, man. Jay Dee Gordon was willing to admit. Yeah, I was acting at the at the direction of the campaign, and they'll forget who Paul Manafort who was the campaign chairman worked for which was the cranium leader who was in this way of Latimer. Putin Jill wine banks, you now have congress with a lot more to look into thanks to these two new reports. And the fact that there may even be an ongoing we don't know if it's an ongoing investigation into whether the president's working against national US, national interest, one of the things that apparently is gonna look into is this Trump Tower that Donald Trump wanted to build in in Moscow, and maybe. Give the penthouse to Ladimir Putin your thoughts. I think that one of the things that's most interesting something that Natasha just mentioned, which is the mounting evidence. And it's not just one piece of evidence. It's it is the Trump Tower in Moscow, it is so many things piled on top of each other. But because there are so many things instead of it being one thing on top of the other getting to be a Utah mountain. It's pushing it down so that it's all subterranean, and it's being buried the diversion that the president does that the White House does is being successful among his base. And so that they're not seeing the facts and the danger to America, the fact that we're even talking about the fact that he could have been compromised or even being an agent of a foreign enemy is something that should be shocking to all Americans, not just to Democrats, not just to independence. But to the people who voted for. This president. So I I am concerned in his trial lawyer. I wanna know how do we get these fax out? How do we communicate them? And you've raised the answer. Which is now that the Democrats have subpoena power and can have public hearings, we can educate the public, and hopefully all Americans will listen to those hearings and learn some facts that will influence how they feel about this going forward. Yeah. I think there could be a very long conversation about the grooming of the conservative base to either be sort of in favor of Russia. I can remember people like Rudy Giuliani even before Trump saying that they thought Latimore Putin was a better leader than our president. And then President Obama. So that grooming, I don't think it started with Trump. That's a long conversation. Maybe we should have do a little dissertation on it. Because it's been happening battles all come back. And we will continue this conversation after the break. Russia if you listening, I hope you're able to find the thirty thousand emails that are missing the Russian state has never interfered, and it's not going to interfere internal American affairs pooling election. President Putin was extremely strong and powerful in his denial today. Okay. What you just saw where some of the bizarre head-scratching, and frankly alarming instances where Donald Trump appeared to be cozying up to the Russian regime, and the FBI definitely took notice. According to the New York Times after Trump essentially said, he fired former FBI director James Komi over the whole Russia thing, they have be I began investigating whether Trump was in fact, working on behalf of Russia and constituted a threat to American national security. My panel is back with me. I'm going to go to you first. And then to Frank on the Russian response to all that we've learned in the last thirty thirty six hours three days. Here is the Russian response via thank thanks to our Moscow desk as well as our London bureau. Russian officials really kind of more responded to Donald Trump's tweet not about the stories that have come out in the New York Times Washington Post, but to his tweet about improving relations with Russia prominent Russian Senator in Constantine Khoza chaff who's the head of the international committee of parliament in the upper chamber comment on that Trump tweet and said this tweet no doubt is intended not for Russia, but for Trump's opponents within the United States, it's hardly possible to expect to improve bilateral relations until the all American hunt for Trump stops. I would be happy to be mistaken. What do you make of that response from Constantine calls? Well, I mean, look the talking points coming out of Moscow have been eerily similar to the talking points coming out of the White House. Unfortunately. They will. They don't deny that the I mean, they will deny that they interfered because they don't mind lying. But right now, they're not denying. They're just focusing on saying, we're a scapegoat. There's anti Russian sentiment in the United States. President Trump understands what's in US interest. Which of course is a lie. I mean, the US interest is to be strong to stand up to Russia so that they stopped their meddling. So that they stop breaking international laws left right and center when it comes to invading their neighbors or meddling in elections in the US and elsewhere. So the Russians are probably very nervous right now because they are starting to see as we are starting to see that. The Muller investigation has a lot of information. And a lot of really good details about what the Russians have done to the United States. And what Americans have done to work with them to help them. Frank the tweet that they weren't responding to was Donald Trump again, repeating that he's been bar tough. For on Russia than Obama Bush Clinton, which is clearly not true tougher than any other president. But then he goes on to say in his tweet that getting along with Russia would be a good thing. Not a bad thing. He does it does feel in a way like Donald Trump is among those whose been grooming. His base to think that the prime directive should be good relationships with Russia. From from day one even during the campaign, as you just said, we've been we've been groomed, we've been groomed as a voting block to try and understand that Russia should be our friend. Where did he get this Russian that the historical adversary that attacks us every day that has the largest intelligence presence of any foreign nation inside the United States, where did he get this notion that he needs to cozy up to them? And that's what Muller is looking at as for Russia responding to this. I predict more of same. You're gonna see essentially a war room mentality back at the Kremlin. As to how they can twist this how they can come out and support their ally their asset in the White House and prepare for everything from social media propaganda. Joy on your social media platforms to Russian news outlets siding with Fox News and. Will barely be able to tell the difference between Fox News and Russia news. You're gonna see an all out assault on us to try and convince the American public that Trump is not in the pocket of the Russian government. And in addition to that Natasha what we're also seeing some reporting from the Wall Street Journal, and others is that this notion of attacking Ron starting to creep back up again because that's obviously, you know, one heck of horrifying potential distraction. But when John Bolton joined the administration, he came with that history of being very bullish on the idea of attacking Imron. Now, we find out that the White House actually look for options to strike, Iran. And we also find out that Benjamin Netanyahu who is very friendly. President the leader of Israel. Confirmed that there was a weekend strike on Iranian weapons inside Syria, Syria state media reported on Sunday one missile was fired toward Damascus struck a warehouse in the city's airport. So you have the the Rayleigh PM confirming that they've already struck Orion targets inside Syria. You have the very hawkish John Bolton inside the administration getting the national Security Council to come up with options to strike Iran is should we is this where we're going is the administration preparing to use a Ron kind of as the ultimate distraction from the problems. Donald Trump is having. These russia. Yeah. I mean, it's a very depressing possibility, but it's a possibility nonetheless, I mean, it wouldn't be unprecedented for a president to use military action or to use our foreign policy as a tool in order to distract from his domestic problems. I would say that with regard to striking Iran. Of course, it would eliminate a potential competitor real competitor inside Syria. We know Syria is one of the most important international footholds for Russia in the Middle East because it's kind of portal to the Mediterranean. So I do think that with the decision between the decision to completely withdraw troops from Syria with with the decision to completely abandon our allies in the Kurds and kind of leave them to potentially be slaughtered by Turkey. We are giving these authoritarian regimes exactly what they want particularly Russia because Russia has always wanted to prop up the Assad regime. They've never really been interested in fighting ISIS that was always just kind of a talking point that they use to justify their. Inside syria. And so now Trump is yet again giving Russia exactly what they want Joulwan banks. We've been here before with fears that a president who was under fire might use a military strike together. His problems those fears existed with Richard Nixon. But the difference is no one thought that Richard Nixon was doing the things he was doing as bad as Watergate was on behalf of a foreign power. It's a very big difference. And however much he said Nixon said, I am not a crook. And he was a crook. He was our crook. He was not a foreign powers crook. And that is a very big difference. And the fact that we have to discuss this is and should be very frightening to all of us that were thinking are we the subject of the best interests of our country? Or is it some other country that the president is trying to protect and the clues are enormous. They have been in our face from the very beginning. In terms of his never criticizing Putin always praising him wanting to be like him. Those are things that should scare us because he isn't a thorny -tarian person. And we don't wanna see that in America. We are a democracy. And yes, it's a very big difference. This is much worse than Watergate. My I'm gonna ask you the question that people. Pretty much every day. Anyone I run into because I think what the American people who are concerned about this. And a lot of thank God a lot of Americans actually are concerned about the idea of a foreign power potentially puppeteer in the president of the United States. What does the constitution allowed to be done about it? What can the American people do about it? If you have particularly now, just in the Senate, a political party that refuses to act all of the Republicans are out with the talking points, which I'm assuming what Ronna Romney McDaniel from the sent out bullet points this morning to only talk about the leaks. That's what the talking points are from every Republican who's on television this morning. So they're not going to do anything about this at all the Democrats only have the house, even if they impeach Donald Trump. They couldn't remove him is what does the constitution say if anything about what can be done if an American president is found to be in the sway of a foreign power. Well, so you're going back to the and you've already said. Joy the crux of the problem, which is first of all legal scholars debate. What the constitution even means on this front? I have my own particular views, but I think the what is centrally important to our democracy is democracy. So what that means is it is critically important that we petition our government. It doesn't to jill's point. It does not matter under the constitution, what political party where in what matters is a separation of powers in. This instance, I do think it matters at the house is in the control at least in this sense of a party that is willing to bring some sunlight to what the what the Muller probe is learning by calling witnesses to congress to demonstrate to the public. What we know? But sides, what's in the media reports. I think that's our biggest hope because at a certain point. It's all about whether or not we know the truth, and we have to demand it. Indeed. Thank you to my panel. Thank Frank Figliuzzi. Jill wind banks Natasha Bertran, Maya Wiley, Evelyn Farkas. Thank you very much for coming in on a Sunday. Really? Appreciate it. Thank you. And coming up the latest democrat to a very different note to jump into the twenty twenty race. That's next. Coming up. The twenty twenty field is getting more crowded by the day. We take a look at the latest next on Amtrak. Many people who put out books two years before presidential election do so to introduce themselves in a Broadway to the American people. Are you going to run for president? Might be running. Well, when Senator comma Harris turns that might into a definitely she'll join former housing secretary Julio Castro who yesterday went from potential candidate to this. I'm running the president because it's time for new leadership because it's time for new energy. And it's time for a new commitment to make sure that the opportunities that I've had are available to every American joining me now Jonathan Kaye part MSNBC contributor and opinion writer for the Washington Post money Kumar MSNBC contributor and president of voter Latino, and John Harwood CNBC editor at large that enthusiasm that I just owed for you three is because I love talking about twenty twenty. I'm sorry, I una badly. I am not ashamed of my love for talking about this subject. I'm going to do it. We're going to get into who just a second. I want to go to first Jonathan 'cause I know you interviewed comma Harris in your interview with her recently. Did you get the sense that her run for president is a definite? Because it feels like a definite. Yeah. Look joy when you read her when you read her book, it is throughout their clues that are that are dropped. Show that she's going to run right there on page five. She tells that she introduces you to her to her father Donald Harrison, professor emeritus from Stanford economics when she was a young child. She said that her father would say to her mother run Comal at run run as fast as bars. You can't that's page five by the by the end of it by the end of the book on page, two eighty one. Yeah. I read the book where it see where see ass was. She writes there when your children and grandchildren ask you, what did you do in this time of a in these challenging times? What will you tell them? What did you do? And so they use it as an opportunity to to ask her when that time comes for you will use will your answer. Be. I ran for president. Right. The audience went nuts. And she looked at me look at the audience. Does this maybe high think the answer is absolutely? Yes. She's going to run. Yeah. Clearly, she's gonna run she's attending the alpha Kappa alpha. Aka sorority annual gala in Columbia, South Carolina, next weekend for those who are unaware that. She's an aka which is a black sorority and the ski we is actually a thing that that part of the sororities is part of what they do. So all the reporters are going to be covering it. When you hear that? That's what that is. She isn't aka, and then of course, the book tour just to say what you for a second Jonathan her issues in terms of running. I think are in terms of the black community. I've already started here. And I don't know if you've heard this among some black journalists who've been covering her sort of ramp up to running is that her her criminal Justice background is probably good in general election because Democrats always liked to run as criminal Justice tough on crime etcetera etcetera since the Clinton era, but on the other side of it. Some people read the book have given mixed reviews because they're saying, she's not adequately. Addressing some of the controversial stances that she's taken that. You took us California. Attorney general people said it's a little bit cliche, but her role as attorney general will become an issue, you know, Hillary Clinton got. Blamed for the crime Bill because she was married to the guy who signed it. So you think that prosecutor might have some issues too with the young folk, right, right? Why asked her at the event, and she writes about this in the book about how does someone who was literally raised at civil rights demonstrations with her mother and father who grew up when her mother Asir, what do you want because she was fussing about something her answer was freedom. How does she go from being a part of the the the the social Justice struggle to being a prosecutor family didn't understand it? And I think that the book is probably her first step in trying to explain why why she became a prosecutor. And why she did what she did in one of the programs that she started on truancy, which is what a lot of people have been hitting my Twitter feed about how that program from their their criticism is it's separated black children from their families. She talks about the fact that. Yeah. There are a lot of tough decisions that were made. But I stand by them. She's going to have to talk about that more fully. Yeah. Absolutely. Okay. Let's let's talk Beto versus really on. I more interest and then to John Harwood who is going to have a stronger pull on Texans Maria tries. A you have an organization called Voto Latino, obviously Latinos he is going to try to appeal to the hearts of the Tino voters, very important to the critic party of tickly young Latino voters. But so is better and is also going for the black folks Beto is sitting down with Oprah. He's having his Oprah moment on February fifth because he's run into that's going to air on own. I was joking with folks he's been so aggressive about with the African American neck where he African American voters. He's probably gonna be on I on ethics my life, very soon. He's going so hard who's going to have a stronger tug on Texans and on Latino voters between those two now, I think they both actually encompass what Texas is the new Texas and that is enfranchising swath of Texans that have been not been Representative. If you look at who the Texas voters were in this past midterm election. They were disproportionately young they were disproportionately people of color. They were independent women. The. It was it was an exciting time for Texas. And I think that they both have a shot. But when you start looking at what is going to be the broad base of the this new this new presidential cohort that we're going to see to. It's the very first time that we're going to have a cohort of of potential presidential candidates that look like the American voter that look like America, and that is a huge win. But before we get, and I know you love this topic. But before we get to far out in order for a democrat, regardless of who it is has a chance at winning the Democrats in the house have to be able to put some points on the board. They have to be able to pursue policies that really resonate with the American public. So that they're able to differentiate what makes them different versus what is Trump because it's not enough to be anti Trump and to the cat camel point, if she's running she shuttered her her fund raising her fundraising account, most recently and reallocated the senatorial campaign and reallocated it to different groups, including an immigrant rights group. African American group. She's also from my understanding is also looking for office space in Baltimore reading. Absolutely, yes. She's going to announce she has to be coy. I I hear on Martin Luther King day. I wouldn't be with mourners done something similar in terms of spreading the money around let people know that she's capable of fundraising and capable of sharing John Harwood. One of the things that I think a lot of people are thinking is that all of this is very exciting. And if Joe Biden gets in it becomes a completely different race because he would blot out a lot of the fundraising, son. It looks like he's at least very interested in writing. He's run for president several times in your view does he wind up getting in. And if he gets in what does he do to the race? I'm gonna make a guess that he does not end up getting in. I think he's looking at it seriously. But I don't think he would blot out the fundraising son. I think the bigger picture joy is when you step back, and look, you know, the scenes in a movie where there's a big lock on a door and the law enforcement comes and detonates bomb and blows it wide open democratic. Grace is blown wide happen in terms of gender in terms of age in terms of ethnicity. I think that you know, in the twenty eighteen election, we had a gay man elected governor of Colorado. We had a by sexual woman elected Senator from Arizona. Anybody could catch lightning in a bottle and win. This thing we all have instincts about who that person might be on your beta question to Maria Theresa. He was he demonstrated some magic in that campaign that I think every candidate would like to emulate, but we don't know whether camel Harris will demonstrate that Elizabeth Warren will whether Bernie Sanders will I suspect Bernie Sanders also will not end up running. But because I do think there is a generational push down the age ladder. But we do not know this thing is as wide open as it's more wide open than any race I've ever covered. Absolutely. And I think that made a very good point that Democrats are going. You have to also explain what it is the democrat would what democratic rule would be for the American people. That's different Jonathan's. Let me back in our next hour. We're interesting Mark Jonathan Harwood. Appreciate you guys always being here. Thank you very much and up next. Thank you, a possible agent of Russia has shut down the US government for the logs time ever. That's next. Three weeks tomorrow. I have a family. Some of us are disabled. I'm 'Self had cancer. I cannot afford my treatments thirty thousand dollars a year. Sherry, and that's it. So unless it's gonna let me live with him for prejudice gonna let me come to the White House. This needs to end. Indefens-? I don't have a home. With no insight to what is now the longest government shutdown in US history. Protests have arrested across the country in support of the eight hundred thousand federal employees who've been furloughed or forced to work without pay with each passing day. The real world consequences are mounting with some workers facing the risk of losing their homes or being unable to pay for medical treatments. Joining me now is Maryland democratic congressman Anthony Brown incumbent Brown. Thank you so much being here. This morning. I think we have you. I think we have out good. Oh, I think we're having some technical difficulties. Let me try again you here with me congressman Brown. Not not hearing. We're not getting congressman Brown out. Do we have you? Do we have him? No. All right. Let's go to a break. And we'll come right back. This president just used the backdrop of the Oval Office to manufacture a crisis, stoke, fear and divert attention from the turmoil in his administration. President Trump my staff holding people hostage. Stop manufacturing crisis must reopen the government good morning and welcome back to AM joy this week. Donald Trump did something that presence often. Do he asked for prime time TV coverage from all the major networks to address the nation from the Oval Office in Trump's case try and convince the American public that his border wall that Mexico was supposed to pay for is worth shutting down the government over the networks. Didn't have to say. Yes. In fact, they said no when President Obama asked for time in prime time to give an address on immigration and DACA back in twenty fourteen. They said no because it was quote, overtly political, but they said, yes and bra. And cast his nine minute rant about a non existent crisis at the border, which made exactly zero news now in the midst of an actual crisis for Donald Trump reports at the FBI opened an investigation into whether he was or is working for the Russians and that he took extrordinary steps to keep his conversations with Latimer. Putin secret, even from his own aides Trump is running back to his old faithful Fox News. Why not release the conversation that you had with President Putin in Helsinki world. I would I don't care. I mean, I had a conversation. Like every president does I'm not keeping anything under wraps. I couldn't care less. I made it so ridiculous. Now's gape sermon. Vanity Fair journalist Carole Simpson and MSNBC news contributor, George. Well. Thank you for being here. I'm gonna start here at the table with you gave the dog from even the morning that he gave that primetime address was calling the news media fake news. But of course, needed the networks him that time a little bit about the background about them doing it. We know it's been a fundraising bonanza immediately began fundraising. I tweeted out the tax Donald talked about the letters that they sent out off of it. But it didn't do well in the ratings, but it was a fundraising. So you fast what how how did the negotiations work with the networks to get them to allow him to do that? Well, you know, really this is breakdown in the process, obviously, it's the prerogative of the president to ask the broadcast networks which extensively are public airwaves for time in their prime time schedule. They don't have to do it. Clearly, he indicated that this would be a news making speech, but it wasn't a news-making speech. It basically reverted to his Twitter. Feed. It was rehashing arguments. He's been making for weeks. There was no news value. It was a partisan speech. And this clearly was a major breakdown in the network's decision to grant him the most valuable asset. They have which is their primetime airtime. And I'm really glad to be able to talk to Carol Simpson and George will about this because you know, going back to history you've seen presidents use that bully pulpit use that opportunity. You know, John F Kennedy used it to announce that he was going to introduce civil rights legislation that ultimately after his death became a Civil Rights Act of nineteen sixty four you've had obviously Ronald Reagan use it to talk about the challenger disaster. You've had presents use it in time of war Carole Simpson. The networks have become very, you know, they don't always say. Yes, right. If they can make an assessment that our president is trying to use them. Right. Not for something of national import not to announce that Osama bin Laden had been killed, for instance. But just to do something political for themselves in this case the networks gave in. And it was nine minutes at made, no news. What do you make of the network's decision to go ahead and let Donald Trump do this. I think they should have. These are we used to have normal presidents. We have an abnormal president this time. He asked for time to address the American people in the midst of a government, shutdown and uncertainty and fear throughout the country. And he you didn't know what he was going to do. He may have declared a national emergency. So I think that the news media and the media should be a conduit from heads of state to the American people, and that we we should provide that service because you don't know whether he's going to make news or not, but George will typically when presidents make these dresses, there's a an advance copy of what he's going to say that the networks get we all get it you read it before. And so you know, what he's gonna say you can sort of follow along with their procedures that are normal. Nothing about this presidency has been normal. The the White House doesn't provide you those kinds of advance copies of. Is going to say this in this case, he literally just did nine minutes of campaigning. And so I wonder if the way that Donald Trump has made a lot of the media world feel right saying they're fake news saying that everything we do is fake news that we're him has made people feel reticent to appear to be opposing him by not giving him the time that's part of it. But I think the Niger this argument changed in about nineteen eighty one when CNN was invented once you have cables, FOX MSNBC and CNN it seems to be legitimate for the broadcast networks to say that's their job. They can bring this and people who want to watch it can make that choice vote with their dials their remotes as it were. It doesn't seem to me necessary for president at anytime to blanket the television coverage to NFL coerce all television viewers into watching this. We have had occasions when presidents have gone on the air to address the nation when parts of their. Speech were still being finished and put teleprompter. So you can't guarantee that people would say, well, we're going to US for our time. We're going to read it and see and make a news judgment as to whether it's important. Furthermore, we've seen. It's one thing for Jack Kennedy to address the country during the Cuban missile crisis with Soviet ships approaching our hemisphere. It was another thing for say Ronald Reagan to go on the air to make an appeal that culminated with him selling people to call congress called reston cow ski over his tax reform. So there's a question of whether you should yield the time for president to campaign for a serious proposal such as Reagan's tax plan or hold out for genuine, national emergency such as the Cuban missile crisis. I wonder gave if just in your great reporting on the White House, and sort of the behind the scenes of what's going on there. In terms of this. Wall standoff did did Bill shine and company actually think that the purpose of this address was to convince the American people that the American tax your should pay for the wall. Or is this just a gambit to buy time because they don't really have a strategy for how to deal with this shutdown. I mean Louis is writing this every day this bad thing for them. The polling shows the American people blame Republicans and Donald Trump much more than Democrats did did Bill shine and company actually think this would change minds. The problem is the president has decided that this is the hill. He's proverbially going to die on. He he knows that his base will punish him twenty twenty as I've reported if he does not deliver the wall. So basically, Donald Trump is held his entire government in his higher west wing hostage. So now they're trying to back fill strategy. There was no strategy when Donald Trump went on TV weeks ago and told Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi. I will gladly accept this shut that no one knew that he was going to say that therefore the shutdown happens. The ball is in his court and the White House now is scrambling to try. To come up with a strategy that diverts political blame from Donald Trump's lap. Came up with this idea for a national speech. Mick Mulvaney, and others were pushing him to do it. But it's pointless when the president every day is tweeting out a stream of conscious about why he needs his wall. There was no news value to convince the American people everyone knows what Donald Trump's position is. Right. I mean, and that's the thing Carol Simpson from from media go on. I'm sorry. I just want to respond to what George said about the cables should take care of the news and the networks should not have to do that. But I think the latest figures I've seen is that only sixty seven percent of the American people have cable. So there are all those other people that wouldn't get to hear it. If it were only done by cable networks, well, the other the other issue, and I'll I'll go to you on this, George, well is that the media is in the business of storytelling, which you know, you can debate whether or not that's what it should be right survey story driven coverage, but something like shutdown is going to produce all over the country in every local news market in America. These stories of people who were personally suffering because of this shutdown. It's it's inevitable. The White House cannot avoid it. Even Fox News is going to be hard pressed to avoid it at a certain point. And it is imperiously true that there is not a crisis. The border. So there's no way to do it. So I wonder in your view. How does the how does the media void the kind of on the one end on the other hand, the maybe they should just give him the five? Why don't they just give him the money? Wouldn't that be the compromise? Because that is a default that unfortunately, the media sometimes falls into. Well, it's it's a constant exercise and shifting judgments in shifting terrain about who gets consumes their news from what sources ten years from now. Lord knows everyone get their news on their telephones or on their computers. I I don't know we're on a fast changing landscape, but it does seem to me that if you worry, and you should if you're a good citizen worry about the inflated power of the presidency under both parties with congress controlled by both parties, then we should look for ways to nibble away at the power the president to dominate the American consciousness when a president wants to to advocate his policies. Lord knows. He has ample opportunities they go in the press room and commandeer the cameras and the reporters there he can campaign on Air Force One the idea that he needs us little filagree on his power to the the power to conscripts the television viewing of the country's strikes me as dubious. He has a Twitter following that's larger than the ratings of any place. Many times orders of magnitude larger than Fox News. Let's go let's move onto this really alarming reporting that we saw the New York Times. And now in the Washington Post about Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin and Russia because this strikes me as what should be the most alarming piece of news really ever. I've never read a line about an American president that posited that he may be a threat to national security, and maybe in this way of a foreign power. I'll start with you on this gave Donald Trump went back to Fox News to try to deal with this even Janine Pirro who is Allah asked him point blank. Are you a Russian agent essentially, and he took two minutes to not answer it again, give me some of your White House reporting on this do they have an answer to this question. That is simply no he is not in a Russian agent. Well, you know, they are in deep damage control mode. I reported days ago that Rudy Giuliani has said in private that they expect the. A report to be quote horrific. This is a White House that is bracing for the worst. They don't know what was said in those private rooms with Putin. So really they are flying blind. And they can say that he's not an acid all day long. But the fact still well, they said, it's ridiculous. It's absurd in so many words, not an asset. Yeah. I mean, it's just it's striking. I didn't want to just point parallels. When Trump said GB happy to release the transcripts from those meetings. That's the exact same thing. He said about his tax returns. I would have no problem and yet years later, we still have never seen those by the way, then political a headline Trump promises transparent Zee on the transcripts of the calls. That is not what he did sort of question to Janine Pirro. But again, the media's giving him the benefit of the doubt and saying he promised transparency did no such thing. Carol simpson. I wonder just as somebody who did nightly news and had the job of explaining thirty minutes at of what is important what to focus people on. What have you? Made of the fact that it has been difficult for people in our profession to cook through focus the minds of the American people on how alarming it actually is that an American president is being investigated for having these kinds of ties to a horn power to all countries to Russia. I agree with you. I don't know why the nation is not up in arms that it is possible that our president is in collusion. Yes. I'm gonna use the word he won't use collusion with the Russians a declared enemy of the United States. I don't I don't see why people don't see that. The media's doing a good job of pointing out the lies telled almost everything that comes out of his mouth is a lie. And it's been pointed out to the American people. I think the government shutdown has maybe focused more attention of the people on what's happening in the White House at not happening in the White House. But I still do not understand. Why just the Russia thing doesn't make people crazy and say this man needs to go, you know, George the risk of. Voice of you to explain the intricacies of the conservative by as on your own. It has been shocking to watch the shift in the mindset of many conservatives to position of being indifferent. Innocence. I mean, Lindsey Graham indifferent and actually screaming for Donald Trump to go ahead and declare national emergency indifferent to the idea of the takings clause being rampantly used to seize land at the border to build a border wall using eminent domain and yes in different. It seems to the notion that the president of the United States is being investigated for potentially being an agent of Russia. I don't understand that shift in the conservative attitude is just partisanship. I wouldn't begin by saying that the mind of Lindsey Graham has the mind of the conservative mind Graham is show we say changeable three years ago. Lindsey Graham said that Donald Trump was a Kook an opportunist not a conservative not a Republican and not fit to be president. He's had an piffling somewhere along the road between then and now. We're going to two shoes of dropped a third is going to drop the first show. It seems to me in this question of the president. And Russia was in Helsinki when the president standing next of Latimer sided with Ladimir Putin really against the intelligence services of the United States on a question of grave importance the second shoe came the other day when the president took the position that the Soviet Union was right to invade Afghanistan. Apis -sition that Gorbachev didn't. Credible. So you have this this the third show that will drop is when the Miller report comes out, and let's all just take a deep breath and wait for that. Yeah. It is. It is extraordinarily to have watched at to unfold. Capable Sherman and Carole Simpson. Thank you so much for being here. George will is going to be right back with us next up the latest on the Republican four building a wall and proudly politicking on white nationalism. Even before Donald Trump. As I told the New York Times it's not about race. It's never been about race. One of my most strongly held beliefs is that we are all created in God's image and the human that human life is sacred in all of its forms. So Mr Speaker, I regret the heartburn that has poured forth upon this congress in this country, and especially in my state and in my congressional district. But the people who know me know, I wouldn't have to even make this statement because they do know me, they know my life. They don't my history. We also know his history Steve king's history is filled with the same kind of racist comments. He made in his interview with the New York Times in which he wondered what was so bad about the terms white supremacist. His latest comments are drawing condemnation from his fellow Republicans, including Senator Tim, Scott, an op-ed saying the king's comments are damaging to the party. But even Scott seems to be unwilling to take it any further. Congressman king is a racist. I don't know him well enough to know what the intentions of is hard really hard to be honest with the no one is recommended any disciplinary action. Forget about resigning any sort of action. I'll tell you. I don't know how we play that out. Frankly, people have the right to say what they want to say. But we have the right to respond to what they say his voters elected him. And I have to respect the fact that the voter saw something beyond his comments was where the public service joining me. Now, Jennifer Rubin NSMBC political analyst and opinion writer for the Washington Post, and George will MSNBC contributor and syndicated columnists is back with me Jennifer, just for those who went viral. So most people have heard them. But what what Steve king said to the New York Times and news talking about the wall agenda. He says white nationalist white supremacist western civilization. How did that language become offensive? And then goes on to talk about the fact that he learned about western civilization at school. So why is it so offensive? Okay. So that is what he said that he's now kinda walking back and saying people know, they know, it's not real. Here's Ted Cruz. This morning Senator Ted Cruz on meet the press responding to those comments. What Steve king said was stupid. It was stupid. It was hurtful it was wrong. And he needs to stop and there've been other Republican lawmakers have come out and condemn the comments Joni Ernst of Iowa Liz Cheney Chuck Grassley calling the comment racist. I wonder Jennifer Rubin as Republican where they've been the whole time. It's interesting that this was the thing that they finally said was too much. But Steve you the past that Mexicans are coming across with cantaloupe calves because they've got so many drugs, I guess on them saying that we can't restore our civilization with somebody else's babies calling immigrants dirt where they been hiding under their desks, and this is fundamental problem for the Republican party now, which is that slipper of the country that truly is racist. That really is nativist has now taken a disproportionate role in the Republican party and the rest of them are afraid to say anything about. They believe that there is some segment of the Republican party that will abandon them if they do actually do something about Steve king. Now, they could have said something earlier and right now, they have another problem, which is all right said these terrible things where do you prepare to do about? It. You kick them out of the caucus who take way his seats on committees. Are you prepared to censure him? So they are caught between what they know is an unacceptable of Pinon and unacceptable stance for major national party and their refusal really to throw the bums out as did with a K K K, and the the berkshires they have to make a fundamental choice down Trump that are making the wrong choice. I think which is to tolerate encourage wink, wink at these people. You know is interesting George will even Tim Scott who wrote this op Ed that got so much praised that asking why Republicans accused of racism because we're silent on things like this talking about those Thomas, but even he wasn't prepared. To go along with the Congressional Black caucus as asphalt which is Steve king to be taken off of committees on some very important committees. And even he was not willing to go along with it. This is a man Steve king who's met with far right Austrians with ties to the Nazis on a trip in funded by holocaust deniers. I mean, he's he's done that he's endorsed Neo Nazis style. Politicians around the world. None of that has caused Republicans to walk away from him. Why not I think Tim, Scott, actually judicious? I think Tim Scott knows that the good people of the forest district of Iowa and northwestern Iowa have sent him to Washington four times now. So they've they've listened to him and decided they want him here before you begin to partially even partially undo their decision and partially undoing American election. You ought to tread, very carefully note. The following first of all Mr. king is one four hundred thirty fifth of one. Half of one of our three branches of one of our government's the federal government that is not an enormous figure in American public life. Second those people I just mentioned in the fourth district of Iowa gave him a twenty three point margin of victory and twenty sixteen and a three point margin of victory in twenty eighteen it looks to me the untutored I hear that the political market is working they've listened to him. And they've decided they decreasingly approve of what he's saying. So I don't we let them have another bite at the apple on twenty twenty a little bit George wail. He's one four hundred thirty fifth except that he is also the king-maker for people who want to run for president on the Republican side, come through Steve king. He's the Tom argues Tom arc and on the Republican side. He's actually quite a powerful figure in Iowa. And he's not he's alone. I mean, Cindy height Smith is now just reelected Mississippi said she'd be front row public hanging. You just had the newly elected governor of Florida who opened with monkey. At up and actually that maybe helped him. I don't know. He got elected. You've got Brian Kemp who was ostentatiously keeping it making it harder for African Americans to vote, and you've got Donald Trump who said that Nazis that March in Charlottesville. Good people. This is not a Steve king thing. The Republican party has these people on board. Well, I think you're conflicting number of different episodes here and not doing so quite fairly. I think what the women said he's not a Senator from Mississippi. She used a phrase common evidently in the vernacular of her region that shouldn't be, but I don't think I understand. And I, but I don't think you go from that to say that she is a vicious racist to hankers to see legends. It just seems to me a stretch. I wonder if it's a stretch to say that the Republican party, Jennifer Rubin. Does have this thing on board. Right. That the Democrats had let's just be blunt for over one hundred years Democrats doors Wallis, but those people migrate inter party. And it seems to me that there publican party doesn't want to kick them out. I think that's exactly right. It's factually, correct. That the southern whites are now in the Republican party. I think it's also true that this present has played to that sentiment. Very very strongly, and he has made. Made it a central feature native ISM is now identified entirely with the Republican party. So I think they and other people have to decide whether that's a party that they can morally politically support or not. I just wanna go back to one thing that George said they'll and that is it's not entirely up to the good people of Iowa the house has rules, and they have ethics rules. They have rules that section members for conduct unbecoming of the house, and those are in places. Well, so it's not entirely clear that the how shouldn't act on this. And I think they should take what action has been appropriate, and frankly, other people have been censured publicly by the house for much less egregious statements. So that is part of our system to, but I don't think it's conflicting things to say that there is a wink wink, nod nod going on in the Republican party, some people may really believe. It other people make speak catering to them. But I think it has to stop if it's going to become if it's not going to become a fringe right-wing nativist party carpets. We have to keep having more time Denver. We'll be back. George will. Thank you very much for being on the show. Thank you very much and coming up, the longest government shutdown in American history drags on and on. Before he pulls the plug on the legislative option. And I think we're almost there. I would urge him to open up the government for short periods of time like three weeks before he pulls the plug. Safeway can get a deal if we can at the end of three weeks all bets are off say if he can do it by himself through the emergency powers to my Republican colleagues stand behind the president. If this is last option, he ran on this just for a moment that was United States Senator saying that tunnel Trump should reopen the government for just three weeks, and then take the hostages again or do an emergency order if he doesn't get the money for the wall that Mexico to pay for that is extraordinarily. Wow. All right. Well, Donald Trump and the Republicans as you just saw so far of using the back down from the demand that you you the taxpayer pay for a wall that Donald Trump promised Mexico pay for and even though new polling suggests most Americans blame. Team Trump for the government shutdown, which is the longest in US history. They are not quitting to me. Now. Maryland democrat Carson Anthony Brown carbon Brown. Do we have you now on with you this morning? Excellent. Excellent. We had a little bit of technical difficulties earlier. Appreciate new coming back. Can you just give me your reaction to listening to a United States Senator who has been urging Donald Trump to use emergency powers that would essentially sideline his own branch of government se? Let the house go for three weeks. And then taking the only thing I agree with what he said is the president ought to open up the federal government. Now, we should not be negotiating or discussing border security because that's what presidents Trump's call for a border wall is it's part of a larger conversation border security. We shouldn't be doing that. In the context of a government shutdown open the government workers at the agriculture department, the interior department the IRS they have very little if. Anything to do with border security so open up those agencies, and then let's have a comprehensive discussion about how we fix our immigration system, including border security. We understand from the Baltimore Sun right there in your home state of Maryland that felt some cars have approved back pay for federal workers. But once the government is reopened. You also have the Maryland unemployment insurance requests now topping twenty five hundred and fifty applications related to the shutdown through Thursday in more than double a week earlier. How is this shutdown playing out in your district? And you have a lot of federal workers in the state. What about your district? Major impact I have the fifth largest number of federal government employees yesterday. I had a town hall meeting the room was packed. I heard from federal government employees contractors? I also heard from small businesses in the community that are being impact retail restaurants services, where we have employee's, federal employees and contractors who cannot spend money. They can't spend it on child care. They're they're cutting back. Yes. On groceries and prescription drugs. This is having a real impact the fact that we now have retroactive pay not only for this shutdown, but God forbid, if there's another one under this president that kids only minor consolation and comfort to federal government employees. They need their money. Now, they they need their paycheck now. And that's what the presidency of the balls. In is not only is it in his court, the balls in his hands. Well, you can open up government now anytime and the house are presented in which you serve has already voted multiple times. Multiple bills to me up in the government. There's not there's not more that the house can do in terms of that. What do your Republican colleagues say to you behind the scenes, if anything how do they justify hurting this many people over thing that cannot and will not be done. There is going to be a wall across the southern border. I think most Americans kind of figure that out even Trump supporters maybes mitt some of them have what how do they justify it? Sure. Your most of them are. I'm barry. Embarrass and quite frankly, the typical encounter is we walk on the elevator together. And they start looking down at their at their shoes. Because there's very little for them to say to justify the Trump shut down and the justify their vote in the house to reject essentially, the by partisan Bill that came over from the Senate that would have opened up the government had one point three billion dollars for border security there in Barras, and as a result there, they're silent. And as a result, they are simply neighboring the president and they're embarrassed. But not embarrassed enough to open up the government again and let people get their paychecks and get their bills paid. It's pretty extraordinary congressman Anthony Brown. Thank you so much for making some time for us this morning. Thank you. Joe? Have a great day. Thank you you too. Coming up. Trump was asked if he was a Russian agent. His response was three hundred and forty nine words, none of which more. No next. That story came from somebody who linked it with an agenda. So I'd like to know who leaked it because they have an agenda not very friendly to President Trump and I for one don't trust. What I read in the New York Times having said all that. I'm going to ask the FBI director was there a counterintelligence investigation opened up regarding the president as being a potential agent of the Russians up find it. Astonishing. Yeah. This is daunting. Donald Trump's defenders are on TV today defending Donald Trump over that stunning. New York Times story the FBI opened an investigation into whether he was working on behalf of Russia and key to that defense. Of course is blaming beakers back with me, Jennifer Rubin. Jonathan Cape bar. Join the conversation Tiffany cross co founder and managing editor of the and the first thing I'm going to go to Tiffany cross. A lot of folks on the Twitter machine are talking about Ron Johnson's response this morning to all of this. So I'm gonna play you Ron Johnson with some bonus. Marco Rubio and get your response. Now, I never comment on these leaks. Sometimes true. Sometimes there have true sometimes are completely false, but every single time whoever's leaking has an agenda. I do know what President Trump was burned earlier, by leaks of other private conversations. So I certainly understand his frustration from that standpoint. But you said earlier this is not as usual present. He has an orthodox means, but press the United States, it's pretty much up to him terms of who he wants to read into his conversations with world leaders. That's just the basic fact Tiffany caught off do you know, what I didn't hear in these responses this morning. No, Donald Trump is not a Russian agent, or I know what was said we've been read in in be gang of eight federa on what was said between him and bladder Putin. I'm not worried about it. This is insane. These are from people who claim to be patriots who are coming out defending this president. We also didn't hear that from Donald Trump when he was asked by the dazzle Janine Piero on it was apparently going some belated New Year's Eve party out to interview. Really? I don't understand. I mean, we have to challenge Republicans because that's really the only way to move past the current state of affairs from Republicans to confront this president and challenge him to not lie to the American people and come out and hourly deny these lies the fact that he's not doing it should make everybody scratched our heads. And Malcolm Nance, frequent guest on this show has been saying this for years, this has acted to the hell a rush for an adversary is if the United States, and the here Republican the law and order party, the family values party that been somebody who cannot himself say, no, I did not help aid a foreign adversaries of the United States. It's a travesty Jennifer ruined. The party of Ronald Reagan is now down to answering questions about whether the president of the United States is an agent of Russia by saying I don't know about all these leakers. Everybody's leaking people leaking. And leaking is leaking about leaking? That's all I'm going to say, right? The linking angle is now. Talking Republicans to get past this news cycle the next twenty four hours. You know, the still dossier is looking better every single day. The still dossier told us a long time ago that down Trump four years was cultivated by the Russians and everything that has happened since that leads to one believe that that is the case. This is the guy who said the Russians were right to be in Afghanistan. This is the guy who has chosen Vladimir Putin analysis of the intelligence over his own intelligence people regarding interference with our election. So it is one of many many steps, and this is exactly what the F B. I was looking at normal presence presidents who are loyal to this country. Do not behave in this fashion. And we now see as the great bend with us of law. Fair blog said, the collusion is the obstruction the president's attempt to thwart the FBI investigation into. Him and others is in fact, part of the collusion that that is his way of repaying or helping the Russians who helped him and nothing I have seen so far disproves that. Yeah. The steel nothing has disputed the that's far. We haven't seen much that. I just have to play this for you Jonathan Kaye bar because I just I must have your reaction to it. One more time full time for the people in the back row. Here's Donald Trump being asked by his friend, his pal Janine Pirro. The bedazzle jitney hero. As Tiffany cross. Too said Andy did ask him a very obvious point Lenk question. Here was his attempt to answer it. Are you now or have you ever worked for Russia? Mr president. I think it's the most -sulting thing I've ever been asked. I think it's the most insulting article I've ever had written. That was just the beginning of two minutes of stream of consciousness it was about Hillary Clinton. And he talked about I'm surprised he didn't talk about TV shows. He likes talking about everything except saying I am not an agent of Russia. Look, I think Tiffany hit the nail on the head that the Republican party the party of Reagan who said mister, Gorbachev tear down that wall. Leave aside the the law and order party a Republican president any president. But especially Republican president when asked that question should have had one answer. No and leave it at that the fact that he went on for two minutes of word salad croutons and red onions tells you all that you need to know. And I think Lindsey Graham. I to also react to Lindsey Graham here where he wanted to know whoever leaked this had an agenda. You're no people leak for all sorts of reasons it could be for their own self aggrandizement. It could be for political Mackin nations. But as we're seeing as we have seen over the last two years people have been leaking. I think for one reason and that is patriotism that the story that came out in the New York Times about the investigation and even the story in the Washington Post about the notes of the translator being taken by the president. Folks. I believe are leaking these stories because they want the American people to know, what is happening not just within the administration. But what is what the president of the United States is doing and not in their name, but for his in his own name and clearly for his own protection. Yeah. Absolutely ended up with the caveat that croutons should not be an salad. That's Brad at the sandwich. And. I'm gonna move on to Tiffany cross. I wouldn't let a democratic Senator answer this question. Let's see how Mark Warner address. This New York Times report. This is a very quick. Yes. Or no question. Do you think President Trump is wittingly or unwittingly agent of the Russians? Jake. I think the earlier evidence this week where the president's campaign manager and were unaware of whether the president knew where the president's campaign manager at whose direction turned over confidential polling data to unknown Russian agent, unknown Russian agent who has ties to Putin and era pasta. Why would you turn over that information Tiffany that? Also was not a yes or no question to and he didn't say, no, he didn't say no is not an agent. Yeah. So I think that Democrats like Mark Warner. I think they are going to say with this younger newer voice late. Never scared to come out and say ping directly to the American people. They're going to have to keep up the simple answer to that is. Yes, he's not even saying is he willing. He could be unwittingly at age of Russia. And you can't say yes, what we know about Paul Manafort who the president has had a longtime relate. Chip with who led him run his campaign, despite what he says, not only should this guy, not have touched a presidential campaign. He's certainly shouldn't have been running it. This is this is in that the president of the United States made. Mark Warner fight for your own side say yes, he was clearly doing something to aid foreign adversary to this country. These are pretty yes. Or no questions. Let's let's go to take cruise. Let's try to the beard. It is still have a appeared. Ted Cruz of the former legs it's form relations committee. He is asked on meet the press our own Chuck Todd should the Senate subpoena. The interpreter who is the only person besides Latimer Putin who knows what Donald Trump said to or was told by the Russian president when they met five times with no witnesses here is Ted Cruz. Do you think you guys in the Senate auto, for instance, subpoena a translator? So that you have a real readout of what the president and bladder. Putin are saying each other. I think it's premature for that. I've seen the allegations. I wanna find out a little bit more about about what happened there. I wanna learn more than just the allegations in the press, Jennifer if he wants to see and find out what happened there. He's disappeared the translator. Right. Exactly. But things have changed since January three when the new congress took over to quote, Nancy Pelosi about the house majority, my Giardi majority, and that means that house can subpoena, so whatever Ted Cruz thinks doesn't think is at this point immaterial. The question is what does Adam. Right ship. Jank. His name there. But what does he think he's the guy who's now, not Devin Nunes? Wow. We got rid of him is the guy who has the subpoena power. Here's the one who has the ability to call people before the house, whether in public session, or in private and to grill them on just these sorts of questions, and I gotta say this notion that the FBI behaved so strangely invested in the president what president has ever run around collecting the notes. So that no one say. Later to afford leader of all the leering glad Amir Putin. This is extraordinarily Republicans. Hold everybody. Keep it everybody. When you guys come back. You guys can finish those thoughts. But also, oh, yes, they're gonna tell me this great panels and tell us who won the week. All right now to ask by amazing panel who they think won the week. Jonathan Tiffany, Jennifer who won the we. Jonathan should know this person, very, well, comma, Harris who is rolled out her book tour and has been I think lighting up the screens around and the stages around town. She has her new book, of course, and she is widely expected this Jonathan previously said to run for president. She comes across determined passionate as pathetic, but also as grounded grounded in her ancestry as both a indian-american an African-American, she's headed quite an impressive book tour, so look for her to Clare, I think within the month, but she certainly made an impressive beginning. What what what primary or early caucus think she can win? I think as we've said before anyone can catch lightning in a bottle in some ways. She does remind me of Barack Obama that in one on one sessions in those small groupings in Iowa where the candidates get their tires kicked over and over again, she could make a huge impression in the backyard barbecues living rooms, so she could. Clearly breakthrough. They are. And I think for all these candidates. It's going to be a matter of connecting in a very emotional way. With voters. You didn't tell me what you keep primary. But that's okay. Because I think the folks in California thinks she can win trying to bioengineering out. They try to definitely help her out. All right, Jonathan we've heard what Jennifer has to say who do you say on the wheat? So so I sort of previewed it in the last segment, I think it's the Washington Post and the New York Times with their back to back stories the times yesterday morning late late Friday night with the story that the F B I had open a counterintelligence investigation against Donald Trump. And then the post backing that story up late yesterday saying that the president had taken notes from a translator from one of the meetings with Putin. And you've shown this particular line from the story that I think is the most alarming, and that is the fact that there are no notes even classified files from the five meeting. Get that the president has had with Ladimir Putin over the last two years that is stunning. And the one thing I wanted to get in the last segment that I couldn't to react to what Tiffany said about. Mark Warner to your question about why what he just say. Yes, or no, we member the fact that Mark Warner Senator Warner who is the vice chair of the intelligence committee. The fact that he couldn't wouldn't say yes, or no is as telling as as the fact that he wouldn't give you the answer. He knows a whole lot more than he can possibly say. Legally fact that he didn't answer. The question tells is very telling to me it is very much to to on those stories. That's a good. That's a good answer. Tiffany you've got to strong contenders ahead of you as you are the closer. And this episode of who won the week you've got to top both of those two very strong answers who on the week, Tiffany. Well, let me crack my knuckles. I think I can do it. So I'm gonna go with congresswoman Ileana Presley. She is the first black woman to represent a Boston Massachusetts, and she delivered a one minute house floor speech this week that gave me chills. She took us to church when she talked about the oath that she took. And she challenged the president and said you have defied that oath. And she said that you devalue the life of the immigrant, the worker and the survivor I see right through you. And so do the American people I really wanted the cameras to pans of the house floor and see if there was a collection plate going. Charito and gave me chills. And there were so many people who share the video of her remarks, and I just wanted to say quickly joy, why that matters because as you seen not all politicians are going to keep it one hundred with their constituents. She's so far has proven that she's willing to do that rather. She has friends are not we also saw this week axios reported that it's lead our congresswoman out of Michigan her using M F got way more kids, then then Donald Trump. Right. So I think it matters. It matters their words matter and she the liver the there on the house floor, and she by far I think one the week. Well, I Anna Presley is incredibly impressive for she. That's incredibly impressive. They keep it. Well, the freshman AFC will Republican made AFC the most famous congresswoman in America because they're obsessed with all of the freshmen are incredibly impressive. All right. Let me just tell you the answer though, because these were all good options. But the actual winner of the week is who. Ever surface? And I don't know who you are whether you are out in the Twitter sphere. You won the week because whoever you are who found this clip track down. It is a film that was not fail, but it's a TV series from the nineteen fifties. Nine hundred fifty eight episode of short lived TV series that kind of exploded across the interwebs this week it appeared on hardball at other places here on this network as well is the travails of one hobey Gilman. Hobie Gilman is the sheriff of this little town. He's dealing with all of these issues that come to his town and this one being done. Walter Trump comes to town. Played by Laurence Dobelin Hobie Gilman played by Robert cope. Here's a clip. We're ready to believe like she ran toward the slaughterhouse and waiting for them was the high priest of fraud. I only one joss me. I can do around your homes that nothing penetrate. We do. How do we save ourselves here under arrest? Trump. Chug. You write it. Anyway, you like grand theft fraud. I think a jury will find it stealing. It's bad. I think it's fair found that one the week. Maybe the year, Jennifer Rubin K participate cross Cosby, thank you very much have a wonderful day. Thanks joy. You guys more break. Hey, it's Chris from MSNBC every day. I come to the office, and we make television show and every day. I think to myself, they're so much more. I want to talk about and so this is our podcast. It's called why is this happening and the whole idea behind it is to get to the root of the things that we see out every day. They're driven by big ideas. Each week. I sit down with a person uniquely suited to explain why this is happening. New episodes of wise this happening every Tuesday. Listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.