5 Episode results for "Matty Hello Kirk"
Have We Been Sleeping On Dragon's Dogma?
"Welcome to Kentucky Talkies split-screen video game podcast hips. Don't lie it's February six twenty twenty and we'd better jam packed show for you. This week. I talk a bit about Dan houser leaving Rockstar or games. Then get into the Games. We've been playing with special focus on the evil within to death stranding and then we bring on Kacoos own Paul Tamayo to talk about journey to the savage planet in Dragon's dogma. Before closing out with some off topic talk of the wire dunkirk. Cheer and the good place along with a very special update about last Sunday's super super bowl all that and a frog tastic music pick plus a whole lot more sustained around. And we're back. Welcome back to Kentucky split-screen. My name is Kirk Hamilton. And I am I'm joined by Maddie Meyers. Hello Matty Hello Kirk. It's me it's nice to see you. We are Jason Schreier for another still another week another week after this one. So he's he's not around. Though fans of Jason Schreier there will be a little surprise for you toward the end of this episode. That will hopefully be cool though Mattie and I don't uh-huh curious about that will stay tuned and you'll find out would I don't think so we are going to be. We have a very special guest for the middle segment. That's going to be pretty fun. We talk about Dragon's dogma. And before that before we get into the games I haven't played first off. I want to give a little google update. So right. You've been trying to get off Google. Yes I've been avoiding Google. Just kind of as an experiment. Something I could talk about on the show kind because Google is kind of terrifying and have a lot of data I love how much data they have on me and I'm so kind of fatalist about at all like where you know that facebook book is tracking me. I haven't had a facebook account for years or it's been deactivated but I'm sure they're still tracking me lake through all these things. I think. This is the exact way that it works for. Everyone though is that we've all become fatalist. Fatalist about it. which is part of why I decided to do this? Is that fatalism tech companies capitalize on it. They know that we all are like well. I don't have any privacy you anymore anyway okay. I guess. Everything's going to be sold to an advertiser benefits them. I absolutely and to try to experiment with like well. What would be like using those services? So that's what I've been doing doing. I have been using duck duck. Go as my search engine I still use g mail so you know still doing that. but just for search have been trying to not use Google and I thought I'd give an update on how that's been going so it's been a while now. I can't remember when it was that I started doing this. But I've been using duck duck go as my primary search engine for months and months and months so it's been like now I don't don't think about it anymore but I do have to say I've found a thing that I require. Google search for there is like one thing that it's much much better for so duck duck go is basically fine for find defined like whatever the wikipedia page for an album or video game or something or the release date of a game or news articles. Like great for that kind of thing. The thing that Google is really good at is people like if you need to find what people are saying like conversations on message boards. That's what Google is. Google is way better at least then. Duck Duck Oh and that's been my primary reference point for example and I'll talk about it in a bit but I've been playing evil within two and there will be times times where I'm like. Okay I know I picked up this one item and it triggered this one event. What does that mean for my game? I screwed myself. You know that kind of question you'll have about and like if I look forward untucked go. It just finds a couple of hinted sites that are kind of more general. But it doesn't find you. The thing that you know is out there. If you've been like googling video games for a long time about them you know. They're huge forum threads about this specific thing and the question I always have is like okay. Well that's what I need to read. I need to we know what the people on the ground say because in some steam thread. Someone's asked about this and like five people responded and they got a good answer and that's where the nation is and that's what I have to turn to Google for so so I do and I do Google. I'll be like I still have it on chrome so I pull up chrome because they usually use fire Fox. But I'll pull up chrome and I'll be like okay and I look and it's like huge lists of people talking talking. All of this. Foreign threats are right there and I'm like this is what Google is good at surfacing in their searches is like what people are actually saying about thing. They've got which kind of makes sense because they're like building this database abuse of people and they know who we all are like what everyone is saying. Yeah it's really the most useful Lincoln response to it like how to find such and such object or did I just get myself out of this thing in game title like that automatically. spawns a bunch of reddit threads a bunch of steam threads leads back game gave us. which game facts now in games two you? I just know that's going to be the most reliable source of information. There's the whole thing where people are like. We don't need game journalism anymore. Game websites need to exist. We can just have read it threads and while I of of course things that that's like totally wrong headed and a million ways you can understand if your primary information you're looking for is like did I get myself. How do I get this item? Like the best information mation. You're gonNA find his ninety nine percent of the time going to be a forum thread somewhere. Yes people source crowdsource information. That is actually the best way to find that stuff. But that kind of Info Games journalism school too many other ways absolutely not to take on a tangent speaking of journalism though. There's some news as we still not a lot of news happening. But we should at least mark the departure of Dan Houser from Rockstar Games. He is the CO founder and not the head. That's his brother Sam. But he was the head writer on what Max Payne three ready to. GTE Five he wrote a lot of these games. He was the head writer on some of those Yup. And you know him leaving. It's sort of a tradition a standard path where he was kind of on a sabbatical at sounds like after finishing red dead to which by all accounts was like a Herculean undertaking. And right right then he left and was kind of on a sabbatical on. Now's cocaine leaving. So we don't know whether this means he's retiring from Games industry or just leaving Rockstar. It I would imagine that just knowing I dunno I remember when we talked to Bruce Staley the CO director of or I guess director of last last of us who had a similar thing I think he was on sabbatical for a little while and then decided to leave naughty dog. It's I think you are in charge of making those gains like. It's a ULA. Kill yourself making them. I guess everybody not just the people in charge. Obviously but like it's a ton of work and you kind of burn out and I would imagine maybe he's like you know what I'm really really really rich like I'm going to go and not play. Kill myself reading it another video game. Yeah I also Sam Houser are still there and they told Kotoka that he's still doing the same thing there so i. I do wonder if that's just an interesting thing between the two of them. Mr which of them decided to stay in which went to their roles. But who knows and it'll be interesting to see if anything rockstar changes with this but it may not it may not change at all and maybe that the company the way it is. Because that's how the company is I think that given the stuff about their culture and the various problems with their culture cultures are bigger than an ursuline. His his impact is an inch is interesting in part because he's not a person that a lot of people know he's not the same as a really well known screenwriter director sort of a person but his writing and his stories are like some of the most popular and like widely experienced stories in any media. Like when you look at his his footprint it's crazy like no. He's kind of the sky like most people don't even with what he looks like. I'm sure they saw pictures from like. Oh He's kind of guy. Yeah that's Dan Houser. That's the guy who wrote wrote these stories and I do think as much as like there are many well-documented issues with his storytelling and like not. All of his games have great stories. He's told some pretty pretty amazing stories. And I'm on the record for red dead to is like operating on a level of sophistication of the type ninety eighty percent of the time or something that most games don't even get close close to and this guy like that's his legacy. It's pretty crazy actually. I'm I'm curious to see like how his story will evolve over the years if he is indeed leaf. If it even could just be that he'll continue to be a person who influenced a whole lot of games after him and he's good with that and he's just going to go line hammock now. That would be Joe. Yeah I can imagine him. Yeah I think I might do. I think more people will talk more. Everyone's just so tight lipped and as long as of course when and someone leaves it tends to just be and I don't mean like they'll talk shit I mean they'll be more free about. This is what this guy was like this like clearly unusual person who is like weirdly focused on. I'm doing these Herculean. Things like making these massive gambling. Just what kind of person does that for good. And what worked and didn't work about his kids. I think that'll be interesting to see so something worth marking as a as a as a slate news item on the show. We'll talk about video games. I see you've got exciting stuff on your games that you played this week so I want to hear so I made a Google doc with a list of games but I'm going to beat in order Kirk Hamilton style. Nice savaging phone. I love it. James are going to get either being or abandoned. TVD How long. I'll keep this up. I will update everyone about. Oh yeah so I posted. I beat disco at least you. I'm this week. Iran I returned officially to death stranding and I will see if I care care to beat death stranding or not. I will say that playing. I'm GonNa talk about these two games without spoiling them early. I'm going to try. Try Mightily to this weathercast but I wanna totally WanNa know what you think. I talk our listeners. Feel about spoilers but I'll just I'll. I'll try to talk broadly about it. This happens anytime. I play two games on the same week. I always compare them on split so sure everyone both begin with D. It's it's like they're exactly the same game so no they're they're actually very very similar because they are both games that are made by design teams that that are not based in America but which are very fascinated with specifically American politics like Disco Elise. Em's design team listens to American podcast. ASK THEY HAVE THE CHAPO TRAP guys. Doing voice acting and like one of the ladies from red scares doing voice acting in it. These are American podcasts. About American dirtbag left politics and your opinion on those politics probably influences at least a little bit how you feel about disbelief and it's tone which can be abrasive at times but has like a particular sort of almost weird twitter asks humor which the design team has talked about his well. They also had a pretty big writing team. Apparently it was like eleven or twelve people wasn't right for the amount of writing. Yeah and and also because the game is so I mean divers is a word that has a lot of meetings but in this case I just literally mean like like functionally. It feels like a lot of different people wrote the game but not in a bad way in the sense that different scenes have very different tones and takeaways and and then as a whole the game I would say has an overall take away. That is at times cynical. And at times does any of this matter with regard due to the hugeness of of a political revolution and political upheaval and like being a singular person who's sort of disconnected from it but also has some sense of hope in some political stake in it. You you obviously get to decide what the lead character's politics are. You can play as a fascist racist. You can play his communist or socialist or liberal or anywhere in between these estates but you individually like the fact that you and your individual politics don't necessarily affect the trappings of the world is very much a part part of what the game is by. Contrast does stranding is a game where you it is extremely about American politics politics and even just the first like couple hours of the game. So I wouldn't ask you this spoiler at all 'cause we've even talked about it on the show although we didn't I don't think we talk that much about like the president. Is it in industrial bag. And Blake Ludicrous. That is so like you. First of all are the son of the president. And that's just a thing like that's your mind hunter and you're like shown to be this. Every man delivery man who's like delivering stuff in an apocalyptic wasteland but then like within an hour our there like by the way your mom is the president. Yeah it's very nice is just like I don't know what to make like it's very shakespearian to me. Almost the the hero of the game is like a princely figure and yet also like this sort of every man type like I was wondering what to make about about an haven't beaten the game yet so I'm still sorting out my thoughts on that but I also think the president and Heather and I disagreed on this. Which is why? It's not in her review which I edited. It's just I take the chance to get it. This is my take. I've always wanted to have about destroying. It doesn't even matter but it is that I I feel like the female female President White Blonde Lady Older Lady. She is a Hillary Clinton archetype to me in this game she. She talks about making America a whole again which was a speech that Hillary Clinton made on the campaign trail like around the time. This game was still being in development. A lot of people thought Hillary was GONNA win the election election and this game if it had come out in a world where Hillary had won the election. Demonstrating is very much about like climate change and like repairing the world and it feels. It's like a game that was designed for like Hillary Clinton's America to me like it doesn't really quite feel like a trump's America game like I think I'm sure they changed it after the election and they like thought about how to do some messaging in the game and I do still think it speaks to a certain like apocalyptic fervor that we all feel at all times in this world of climate commit. Change in like you know the brink of nuclear destruction that we're constantly on the list goes on so there's plenty of things that dusting speaking to but it also has this weird sense of like the word neoliberal is overused but it. It's like this certain kind of liberal Utopia but does straining has that. It's very comfortable with and it's very much like yes. Everything's really terrible. But connecting with other people and connecting the world through the Internet is in in the ghost Internet industrial ending fundamental. Good that will like achieve good things and it was super weird to meet a beat disco. which has this this wild ending that we can talk about defending on what you do? I think Jason probably got a different ending than I did. Just based on a few things he said so. I'm really curious. Talk to him about that and like the different ways that can go but for me I thought the ending was wild and cool so like that playing that and then immediately going back to playing frigging not even importance. Side quests just like reunited to people who were or like weirdly thankful to me and suddenly going back to the video game hero mode. Where like I'm researcher? World and like all the metaphors are hitting you like an anvil as compared to disco albums like just delicate. Subtlety with like every concept introduces being like. Yeah there's metaphors here but like work on a really tread carefully on this one and dusting his like it's America. You're reuniting America and you're the prince I don't know it's it's really no. I totally get what you're saying. There's like it's it's not as simple as saying that one game is cynical and one game is sort of gormless or almost like just super idealistic. Because because there's a lot of beauty and idealism is represented in deaths or sorry. It's just that this is a much more subtle game is kind of about it. I like what you said about how it's sort of about your powerlessness or your smallness in the face of history in the face of this thing because so the country entry anyone doesn't play this and disco. Liam you're the country there's like a failed communist uprising and the whole thing is basically taking place in the ruins of that kind of and you're in a a part of the country or I guess. Yeah I guess it's a country you're like in a region that where there was a lot of fighting and like the city was like Sheldon. Wasn't that long ago. So it's like you're the people who were on the fascist side signs it and you meet people who are on. The communist is still alive and everybody has all this intense bitterness around that prior conflate and and it's interesting because it makes your police officer but the police officers are specifically not agents of the state in the same way that we associate them with like in our world but you're you're basically a figure with some power not a lot but some and you have the power overlake various interactions and you sort of have authority but not got a ton and it kind of puts you in the space of how I think a lot of people feel like they're really interested in this like you are who you are. You have some degree of power but not enough enough power to actually change the way things are and what does that mean which is like a really interesting in. US and very difficult thing to explore like you said devastating. It's like you're the son some of the President Lady. You're the guy who everyone loves. That's the thing I noticed even from how much I've played everywhere you go. People say what's up. Oh thank you so much. You're the best you save our lives like you connected us to steer. Just throw a party for the vast. This question I just happened to do is one that starts out with the person not liking you and like really hating being you and being like I hate your system and everything you represent and you're like okay. I also collect your packages and bring them to you enough times that you like me. The and then I did that. And I like navigated across all these treacherous absurd scenarios in the packages question ludicrous and like impossible to carry. I won't spoil it for for anyone who gets to this quest but anyone who's played it probably knows which one I'm talking about and then you finally get it and then it ends with the person being like you know. Stay Up. Bridges your great. I love you man and just like video games like it's just it's like give the person enough gifts and there'll be a romantic interest rate where like disco elise would straight up. Make Fun of you for for that like they would. There might not. Is there anything like this like where you endlessly do the same thing for someone. In each time they dislike even more and they're like stop being so desperate I definitely are are equivalent of that or just quest that you can't get past still have the person like you and you just have to sit with that there. Is that guy who you interrogate. I can't remember character names anymore. But the there's one way to interrogate him where you just destroy all of your goodwill with him as a cop and he just never trust you again in like becomes a broken person who like once you and then just never does again and I kept trying to like find other ways to get past that part of the game without having to do that to him but I just didn't have have the right skills and I eventually had to just just betray him utterly and be like yeah man. You have to do what I say. Because I'm a cop and I didn't want to say that but it turns out that's the only I think that's GonNa work on you and now you think I'm an asshole and you're not even wrong and I just accept that he was not afraid to do that. To you does stranding. It doesn't even. He's not even interested in that. That's not very different hats that it wants to go down. It wants to instead. Tell this hopeful and like fundamentally corny any but in a good in a way that ordinary enjoy. It's just like coming off disco stranding again. I was like why wo- These are Abou- how kind of the same shit which is like a fetish ization of a certain kind of America but like as reinterpreted through non-americans lenses which is great was held anyway. But I'm also just like wow these mega different interpretations of this core concept so fascinating but you also beat a game game. I did and actually the two games I've been playing are they're actually pretty similar and they do put the the the two games put one another into different relief. I guess great replaying welcome to Comparative Video Games like everyone does this right like you play a game then you play another game and you're like wow this really makes me think thoughts about the game. It's like a version of the Games out at the same time. Everyone's like let's compare them and you're like well they just like you won't be doing this in five years the student right now. 'CAUSE they're out ask time but Hey compared everybody compares plague talent evil within two constantly we have this right sort of similar. You're no they actually are. They're both self games both have horror elements there. I mean okay. They're pretty different but finished a plague tale a tale innocence is the full full name. Still I you know medium on it overall. I think it was cool. I believe this game is free right now. An xbox game pass if people mentioned that to me when I was talking about it which means if if you have that you can just play it and give it a shot. Only recommend that like. It's a story. Linear story game took me about ten hours to finish. If you just WANNA story if you're looking for that kind of thing very self-contained eighteen to finish it and it's over. Yeah it's it's cool. It has that amazing rat tech. I gather the rat tech and the graphics look a lot better on pc than on consoles so if like like the appeal is just visual. Maybe worth playing on PC. But yeah. I finished I think it's pretty cool. It gets more interesting toward the end. There's some really cool like rap battles there's is like huge things of rats and your rat battles is a it. Sounds like a good band name first of all just generally. That's that's a that is a certain image that I guess scare for in real life. Well it is probably the image is the is what happens in the game. I won't spoil stuff because there's there's some cool stuff that happens and like the rats keep being a major part of the game in a way that I appreciate it like they don't just become an obstacle. You have to get around the cool looking creepy obstacle. They there's more to it right and it's fine like the story didn't do much for me. I think I mentioned this last week. There's a lot of the one a couple of big plot points are like your character doesn't tell her little brother something and he gets mad. Adam runs off so that I found frustrating. And there's IT feels like they cut stuff because of course they got stuff every video game cut stuff but it feels like the stuff that they cut is noticeable will like. There's like an act missing toward the end and I was like. Oh this is jumping over a Lotta time and that you know it's like whatever every game has that problem toward the end because they're just like we need to shut this thing we're cutting stuff but so it's new is fine but the my main gripe was that the stealth was very linear and sort of you know they always. He always had exactly what you needed. It didn't feel like solving puzzles. Just felt like I was like I'm there would only be one way to solve the puzzle. Yeah basically there's a little flexibility but mostly just kind of do one thing so evil within two when it transitioned to this because this game has everything that I wanted from. This game is great. Man there are rats sometimes as a mechanic there are there are some as I will see a rat. They'll be like. Hey what's up. Tell your five billion friends that that I said hello But about this game at all so you don't okay so okay let me let me let me figure this out. So even within one was directed by Shinji Commie the Creator I think are the director of Resident Evil and it was made for Bethesda. I don't remember the name. Oh it's it's it's What's the name of the studio we got to remember it? It's it's created by Tango gameworks. which is one of those independent or one of the studios that I I don't know if they're owned by Bethesda or they just but that's just publishes them but become directed the first one he did not direct the sequel? The first one is Kinda got mixed reviews like people I played a little bit of it was like I can't get into this is to hardcore horror like it was it was really had like a weird aspect ratio is really. Gory was hard to see what's going on. It was very scary. It was a lot of stealth and sneaking and trying to avoid huge like beefy dude with a chainsaw hunting you kind of evil within two significantly different different director I think mccown's like producer on it and I knew people said this game is good like people have been saying it's great and then when I was talking so glowingly about resident evil to remake which I played and loved loved. The people. Were like dude. The way that you're describing the appeal of of Resident Evil to you have to play with into you'll love it so I was like okay. I know and so I'm GonNa play it and yeah it's really good okay. So you're all right. Everybody was right. It's an awesome game. What it's kind of like is a lot like bioshock? I Oh shock actually like a scarier bioshock. That's playing. It feels like especially the original bioshock was like really scary. Actually like I say pretty spooky is this is much more like a horror shit like real because it's got stuff jumping out at you walking down corridor solely in their sequences of like it's like j horror. There's like the scary lady is she. What's there's clip dose a moist ghosts and the waking game like there's a lot of Gu in this game dewey to use the word that some people like and some people hated that I use a lot? This is a very good game. A lot of Gu the lady in the with the long black hair and the draft and she's floating and then you see her and then she sees you and she liked comes Tori really fast and it's like she's moving faster than she should. It has that kind of stuff which is like not in bioshock. It's it scares me more like that's really freaks me out and he goes. That comes towards really fast. I don't care for yes it's scary but it's not that scary and like I have ways of mitigating that or maybe talk about in a second but so it's turning. Yes I know I'm going to do. I'm doing a similar thing to resident evil wherever like just the difficulty a little bit or made it a little easier for myself. So this game is like it takes place. You're a guy whose daughter died. Shocker like a guy with short hair and your video game pretending givers offers agnes. Dad and daughter died in a fire and he sat about it and she wanted to. Ghost is this. It's cool this. They want spoil anything. This is all all in the setup of the narrative in the first chapter. No you find out that she's actually alive. So it's like there's like a government agency that you worked for in the first game I think and your name is Sebastian Castellanos. He's like the most charismatic charisma-free protagonists ever like this game has significant charisma deficit that it makes up for and being in a really fun. Cool game with good enemies and it's like really well made but the main character. Oh my God this guy sucks like I am not into him. He has nothing to him. He has a car after playing. Yeah after playing resident evil to where. It's like these plucky leads like Beyond Looks Kinda like Leo Titanic and like Claritin feels this great character like I liked them and I liked the story this so far. He's just like and he he. It's partly acting the rating. He'll just pick something up and be like it's a key accused door like it's just a lot of that kind of writing and I don't know I'm not maybe this this changes and I'll get more into the story. I'm pretty early doing all the side quests. I've probably played like eight hours or something five hours. Maybe anyway the whole thing takes place in like a weird sort of Sir Psycho. VR thing like it's like a psychological VR likely to go into your and the game is doing yes and it's like you get plugged into the Matrix tricks. Kind of get plugged into a weird thing that you then go into and it's kind of a weird thing about this game. This was true. The first one to that you're in your town own and it's open world and you're exploring zombies and it's all scary and there's like people who've been killed by the monsters and you learn their stories and find collectibles that's the stuff that really feels like bioshock but everything is like not real just in Vr and like fantastical Silent Hill. Shit like the the world is crumbling. And you'll see like whole sections of the city are like it floating in the distance because like everything is cracking apart. But it's not really. You're not like inefficient haskell world you're in this spiritual VR place so that goes away really quickly and it. It just feels like oh no. I'm just like in Silent Hill. Just a real person but then the narrative elements will be. You're on the radio with someone WHO's out in the real world like talking to you in Vr. And of course if you die there you really dice isolate the stakes are real. It's like the premises like. That's just a little weird. It doesn't totally me because I keeping like. Yeah like why not. Just have the guy go to an actual weird crumbling have that be the game. And he's investigating supernatural but they wanted to do more of like a techno horror setup we stand VR. Dave sometimes. It feels like I'm like so. Am I just like a guy who's come to deal with a bug like just tech support guy with a gun. I mean that's funny. Yeah that was actually the setup. The game was that you were like a ghost Hunter Reich in games that are haunted deadline for like development. And you're review bugs. I loved that. Actually this idea twenty one it would work and it. So there's a lot of ways at this game uses the premise. Really Amazingly Amazingly. Like you'll go somewhere and then you'll boom. You'll just be warped somewhere else. And it's because you're in this operating system you can just go out on a thing and you're somewhere else. Yeah or even like you'll have to go to a location to get there. The portal is a computer. And you'll open up the computer and then you enter a loading space and you're in the game. And he's in the loading spacing loads in and then you walk over to another computer. It creates this game is visually beautiful like the art is amazing. There's all these really cool ideas. It has that bioshock feeling in the presentation which is pretty cool for an open world game because they also use the premise. Where you'll go thing that happened to me recently? It was like you know. Pacing and horror is really important right like it's like the horror. It's like only scary. If they can really control you know the relief and the tension and like the horror and the fear and then Mike getting away and then a joke that kind of dispels the tension and then like that's all has to be very controlled so open world. Horror is like kind of a tricky thing. I've never this is the best open world world horror game I've ever played I ever played in there. Yeah I was thinking to myself if I played an open world game but yeah our state of decay. But that's not not really horror. That's like more survival. This feels a little like that. But the thing they'll do is the houses feel more like set pieces and they're really well paced. They'll go into a house because because you've got a thing on your radio or right and it's a small thing but then you'll walk ins. This is an example pretty early in the game but walk into a house and like read a journal and the journalists this woman. And she's like it's coming walls won't stop it. I don't know what it is I'm terrified. It's actually pretty scary. I'm like this is scary. And she's like I don't like I'm so scared haired and then that's kind of it and then you go in and you like explore the backroom and then it's like you come out and that's where the the J. Hora lady turns up the lakes and then you're like suddenly suddenly you're in this like other thing and she sees you and she grabs you and then you get warped to this like hospital and she's hunting you this hospital and suddenly like just you're in a Linear area where you have to escape. And so it becomes this stealth horror thing and of course being like fuck this. This isn't what I signed up like scary. Like I liked creeping up upon guys and Lake Stealth killings up here w like hunted by a ghost. Yeah so it lets them do that kind of thing which is cool and then the most bioshocky thing I'd say is you're in a city that city is like overrun by zombies. We're trying to find your daughter. And so there's a lot of stealth it's like very like throw bottle drives on be away it killing and actually the thing I like about his. I'm actually scared of zombies. It's like a stealth game where I'm really worried about being spotted because it's like very like early resident there's an evil as where it is obvious can actually fuck you really fucked up and like you don't have a lot of AMMO and you have to be careful overwhelmed and that I think works well. It's funny that like stealth and horror really lend themselves to one another. I guess like the original thief Games are a good example. This there were these horror levels of those games. Where you're really sneaking past zombies and the undercarriage of our skeletons? I guess under the castle like Stealth sneaking and being scared or like go really well together. Yeah so anyway. Those things work well together and generally. You're fighting zombies. And they're just. They're like creepy specific zombies and have weird shit but there's zombies but there are also bigger enemies so the lady the scary lady. She'll just turn up one time. She just appeared and was like hunting me on the street and I had to escape her so she randomly appears after you trigger that event and I think she's like a major character because I've looked up some walk-throughs one ran. Make the game less scary for myself. And it's like it's just GonNa be the entire go. Google the search fuck it goes lady but so there's a sense of like a cast of characters and it makes the world kind of feel feel like this ecosystem because there's the main bad guy right now who super bioshocky. He's like Sander Cohen and bioshock. Because he's like a serial killer guy with a camera and he'll kill people in this with magic camera where he photographs them at the moment they die and it freezes them in the moment of their death in this like three D. thing of like blood spurting out as they come back and then you can like walk in there actually there and like examine them and he is like hunting you so it kind of has this feeling of the way Senator Cohen of the music guy in bioshock who's like always on your radio and like staging these tableau for you and fucking with you and then finally fight him on the swimming at some point all actually fight this guy so there's just that feeling of like there's this guy and there's this lady and then there's also all these zombies. There's a bigger story happening. But there's these kind of itemized like localize little adventures. I'm going non and I'm like hunting for gear and then it's great. I'm really I'm really digging it so I'm hoping the story gets a little better. It's long game is pretty long. I WANNA WANNA keep playing it for now. At least if I did lose interest I think it would be that like the story. Isn't doing it for me enough. Like I'm just not that drawn in. And it's all a little jargon Ian confusing with all this shit and realities within realities and the main character is such a a dull a dollar but But I I've pretty pretty early so I feel like I'll get more into it and I really like the game so big fan keep playing it pretty cool all right. I'm looking forward to both of US playing stranding evil within two next week because we're GONNA stick to our video video games schedule. Spoke totally you're going to do here. It's I think we can. Let's take a break and then we will be back with Paul Tamayo to talk about. Well talk about many things to talk about journey to the savage planet and Dragon's dogma. Most of all so stick around Japan. Hello I'm Melissa Kirsch and I'm Alice Bradley. And we're the host of light packers podcast. The upgrade did the upgrade is a show about all of the ways. You can improve your life that means how to be happier and healthier and more successful and more productive and just generally better in every anyway we talk about stuff like sex very few people are like please Jackhammer me for another forty five minutes psychedelics. You don't just go on the diving board when you're five years golden jump in the deep end because that would be met and psychopaths giving you exactly what you need or want without. Maybe you being aware that you want it you can find us forever. You get your podcasts. And we are back now. Joined by politician who is a video producer Kentucky and also a host of his own gaming podcast called the optional. Great show were so excited to finally have Paul Hall on our show Paul. What's up while let's good guys? Thanks for having me. Oh I'm super pumped to be here the first time longtime time listen. I can't believe believe we have made. This happened before I I'm so excited about it. And it's true master podcasters at Kentucky. That wasn't on. Also we're not going to talk about Tetris. But they do kind of just. I WanNa talk to you about Tetris the whole time. But I'm not I'm not GonNa let us. I'm just GonNa mess you up front. That Paul is amazing Tetris and that every time I watch it is if you playing Tetris tetris effect. I want to know your secrets jealous. Not Good enough it tetris and the police who good tetris. But anyway that's just a fun fact fact just a fun fair yeah fun fact so much so many of my teenage years just gone to Tetris. So that's that's my secret. At least you get to be good on the Internet at ten is is it really pays off. It seems only fair and I also wanted to bring Paul onto just give a different shout out to this video that he made about journey to savage planet the Savage Planet Savage Planet I think is the planet yes okay. It's the only one savage planet this game and so so Paul made this great video for us. It's about it where the first couple of minutes of the video is just straight up talking about the game play and then he pretends that the video is over and is like fi and then comes back and talks it's about the history and etymology of the word savage and it's racist history and it's it's a really fun way to set up a video and politics wanted to hear you're from you about that process yet. No I had a really good time with this one. I even like a had a nod to Tim You know who who's no longer working fulltime but I had to him Because I've been working with them for over two years now so some things will sort of will exchange some ideas here and there and be inspired by each other so I had a line for him that I had him read but yeah a lot of it was inspired by a lot of his stuff. And I've been wanting to do something like this for a minute now and and this sort of lined up At the right time and I remember when it was first announced like I mentioned my video I was just like oh here we go again like a game about exploration and being a pioneer colonizer. And it's in how you know the the just the the way In which that has a long history with the word savage and I know like I I mentioned it in my video that like look. I'm not telling you to stop using that word. I'm not here here to be like the police arrest you for using that word But you know it's Kinda hard for me as someone from You know with indigenous background to separate that from you know oh the from the game and my in my experience with especially when the game at every turn is like good job colonizer. And he's like you know doing the most when it comes to that kind of stuff such wanted to talk talk about it real quick and just bring it up to you. Know to bring it to people's attention and and just have a civil discussion about it. Like look man I you know I actually liked the game. I thought it it was really fun. It reminded me a lot of metric. Prime which is I. Think the main source of inspiration glowing is really. Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah. I liked that game a lot. I just wish I as you could have used it the source you know what I mean like. Just pick a different word. That's all I'm asking you know. Just just be a little bit more conscious that kind of stuff. Yeah I mean. I think that's true you but I also think you made a good point in the video and also in the accompanying post about how since the game happens to be about colonizer and a pioneer like even if the use of that word was an unintentional that subtext is still part of what the game's about and that's just an interesting question to me and I do. I do think it makes people uncomfortable to think about that question. And how many games there are some what you talked about. In the video that are about exploration and reward that colonization mechanic as a part of what they're about and it's just it's good to talk about even if it doesn't mean that we're saying like oh you can never use this word you can never make game that uses these elements. I just think it's good to be aware aware that there is such a part of these kinds of games totally and that's like all I'm asking is like in the future moving forward and I I kind of mentioned it as it's like a joke between me and my friends always say l.. Pick up to your mistake if you if you make a mistake for something. It's a reference to have our own house rules and That's all I'm asking. Skin is like let's keep playing. Just pick up to for your mistakes. Keep moving keep moving forward and I was trying to be positive constructive about it but yeah I do think it's important to understand that and and you know how it might hit a specific part of your your audience and like one who was excited to play this game but it comes with a huge asterisk every time I have to explain it to somebody like but right right. It's tough because and to sort of summarize this where people basically it's that select describing people in a country that you're causing as savages way of sort of dehumanizing them to make what you're doing okay and that's kind of the history of this word and that's why when you actually look back and how it was used their other words you can use because savage is such a word you you know here. It's like a game about about colonizing planet but it's also used in gaming all the time right Little Bit Oh my God that was savage like he just savaged that guy and you can see the all but this is just like a word I use. I don't want to think about it and it Kinda gets at how I feel like colonialism. Is this thing that everybody is just starting to deal with or at least least white people. Maybe are like Sergio with more like I. At least I don't know I was recently listening to Hamilton. And I love this musical and it's great and you wanted the Great Disney buying it and instead of I promise I'm going. This dislike an example of like a sort of a thought that process that. Maybe we'll be familiar to some listeners. And that's that was listening. I know this musical inside out. I think it's wonderful I think lin-manuel Miranda's brilliant. I really like it and at the same time him I was like this. Is this really cool reconnect realization of the founding of America. But there is no place in that musical for the indigenous people that America was founded founded on top of. Or you know like in the place of and that's actually like a missing element from the music. When I was like man? You know as much as this. Is this really cool. Like Rican sexualization with like a multiracial cast and like making see the founding of America differently. It's also missing this huge thing that was just like massive injustice. The whole country was like a we. Just kill the whole bunch of people and Mike took their land. And there's all these lines where it's like you gotta fight for your land back in that musical and I was like you have it is your land. And that's that isn't uncomfortable. Thought it's just something that you kind of have to deal with if you're being honest with yourself so anyways that was a thought I had related to this and To that conversation yeah and I think you bring up a good point to where like I think I think a lot of our pop culture tends to look back on certain things that were directly influenced by some of by colonialism. And and you know we tend to forget it or like like you know willfully ignore it and All I'm just saying is hey this these words and and the things that you know those retro pop you you know. SCI FI novels and stories shows. Yes shows they. They look a lot of a lot of stuff. Doesn't hold up but Just remember where where that stuff was pulled from. I think nowadays where we're sort of making a more a stronger effort to be more conscious of that kind of stuff and I think it's great. I think it's wonderful but I also think like yeah. Yeah you know I get it some folks just WanNa have fun but also like you know. There was a point in time of my life even very recently where I didn't want to have to think critically about the stuff I was consuming but somehow some way like a switch turnout in my head and I became more conscious of especially you know being somebody who has a voice now and like just being re responsible with that kind of voice is all asking for. I did like how you approached it just in the like okay. Here's the video that's just like. Is this game fund for people. Who aren't there yet? Because that's okay too like everyone's on their journey like you want to know if this game is good. Here's I think and then it was like okay. It was like a video version of. What's the the tweet where it's like? Here's a thought. And there's like dot dot dot okay. Did everybody leave. Okay come over here like it was very bad which I thought was sort of like it was a playful way of broaching the subject that some people find uncomfortable and I like to. That's why you you know. It was definitely lightly inspired by a lot of what Tim did. Because he's always playing like forty chests with his audience where he is going to be somebody and that's why I did it my house like I. I know someone's going to screen shot the webster dictionary website and be like well technically. It's not right the French word or what you know. I'm like all right. Look I know you're going to do this. I have to sort of always think like like three or four steps ahead but also make it fun and funny. Because I don't I don't want to feel like just you know talking down or or preaching or you know being too preachy so I wanted to just have fun one with because at the end of the day. That's kind of who I am in like. I don't want it to feel too. I concerned about stuff and I. You know I'll I have my that time away from from I'm from the job but I just WanNa make it fun and I thought that was really like interesting idea. I might start bending the youtube rules with where I'm like. Yeah Yeah I'm in favor of it. So speaking of things. You're having fun with. This is a segue. You guys like. Good Job Luth on a segway game. Dragon's Dragon's dogma. Paul likes this fall. I've never actually played this game so I'm ready. Never know that's not true. I I have played it before. I've played it never house before. We've never really talked about it onscreen though like I offer this is great because I mean when I came out back in twenty twelve I believe I would mean I was still you know I was not in any place to be just out here ball and buying game aim so I I was at school. I was a struggling film student Imram and every night so this is completely was not on my radar but when it came out on switch. It's just when I started getting into it which I think was last year or or two years ago. I forget when it came out on switch but You know they're a bunch of other folks at the office and on on my timeline. I've been talking about it. So yes she she you know she was actually. I was playing the other day like at the end of the day. I was just hanging out my office and I'm fortunate enough. Heather Heather will stop by and we'll just hang out and she'll give me point like tips and stuff because the dave percent. Yeah so okay. So she was like. Oh you need to do that like combine that. Go back to whatever and I so to give people a quick read. Let's Yeah uh-huh Dragon's Dogma is like a third person action adventure game like some light. RPG elements That I think Heather told me Some of the folks who worked on that went went on to do monster hunter stuff which makes so much sense because of the combat in this game is like chef's kiss it's it's exquisite. It gets a fight these like giant trolls rules and and Griffin's and stuff and you're like doing front flips onto them grabbing onto them. It's wonderful sponsor. Yeah Yeah it's very very monster hunter like in that way and I love Monster Hunter and So I kind of want it. It's basically sky room with monster hunter and it's like the perfect thing I wanted for uh-huh yeah for my commute and for like you know Saturday mornings when I don't WanNa leave bed and I just wanted like just grab my switch and grab a cup of coffee and play something and I I have been an loving this game. I I've been playing it for so long and I realized very recently. That wasn't playing it right. I've missed his very one missing one small this one. NTC outside of a castle. That I just completely ran by and I just like whatever I talked to him once. I didn't pick the the right dialog option. I guess and I've been grinding this whole time as in one specific class. I've just been fighting monsters. I've been you know getting Materials and and then I'm like what what else do in in this game. I don't understand how to like. Is there a way to progress. So I wind up going back to the first town. You go to the first major city and talked to this homey outside of a castle and he's like Oh. Yeah here's a bunch of quests and now I'm just like extremely overbroad I switched my classes. Yeah it's hard for all the quest that you were supposed to have done like hours and hours ago. Yeah Yeah so so the good thing is dragon's dogma has like a a series of Different classes you can choose from so I was playing as an archer now and planning as a fighter which is like up close sword and shield kind of guy and And there's a there's a bunch there's like ones that fuse magic with that so you can become like a magic archer and stuff like that so Now I just have the the joy of sort of playing this with a with a lot of cash in my bag and a lot of materials and a lot of experience points to a US so now I'm just basically playing it on easy mode so it's a it's a good time. I love the game. I have some questions for you. I guess so. For starters my sense it's always been in. This game is like hard to get into that P. It always seems like there's always critics I also see Patrick Lubbock and Austin Walker that they talk about this game. I always people on twitter who are like Dragon's ends dogma. Dragons for years for what feels like ten years feels like this game came out in two thousand and six or seven. Who did it but But I've seen people talk about it forever and I've always been like that seems kind of cool but but that's always with that caveat of it's hard to get into. Why is it hard to get into or do you do disagree with that with that characterization so I yeah? I didn't play when it first came out. So I'm playing like dark arisen which I'm assuming is like the game of the year. Yeah all the seas included and I from what heather told mainly my my programmer friend. It gives you some things that make the the starting moments or some of the pain points from the original game a little easier so like There are things you can use repeatedly that used to be like one time you know a one time use consumables so for example like fast travelling. I believe before used to be this thing thing where you can only do it. Depending on how many things you found and with dark arisen I believe they just give you something you can reuse over and over again and So I do think that it. It is kind of tough to get into at first because it does take a long time to get to the good stuff in in ways that I think a lot of these games tend to struggle. With where where it's like our you've seen those highlight clips on Youtube. Maybe even highlight reel and you like you see people doing the wildest things and it does take a really long time to get to that and I think if you if you have any sort of experience with monster hunter I think the the on boarding ramp will be a little easier because some of it'll feel very familiar. You know you know what things to prioritize like for example if if you find a griffin out in the wild it's a giant line with a goat on it's like a goat head on its back and it's tail is a snake over. Uh Yeah it's pretty it's pretty bad ass actually. Yeah it's pretty great. If you're an archer like I was just kind of focus on the tail. The snakehead will oh fall off and you can sort of attack this creature with three different basically like a mini boss with throw. That is very okay. That is very monster hunter to be like at the tail so the poison goes away so now you're saved from the poison in the middle of the fight. Exactly exactly. Yeah so so. That kind of stuff can be if you're familiar with those with that dance. It's not so much Chavez a of a hurdle to get over but I could see if you've never played monster hundred for example. I could see how that would be tough to get into but I do think there's a good amount of like one thing I was told hold also was to just try out different classes very much like monster hunter. If you find a weapon that yeah just switch if a weapon. That's not really working for you. Just just switch it out and you'll we'll find something eventually But yeah that that carrot on the stick thing of like you know. Here's a quest. And we'll give you this amount of money or there's some amount of skill points it's always there and that and that feedback loop is so satisfying and it's in a setting that I actually enjoy Yeah just hits all the the right notes for me man. I might have to switch. I'm looking to and so it came out in two thousand eleven or twelve which is after thousand years ago especially when you consider so dark souls came out in twenty eleven and it wasn't really until like what Lebron has two thousand fourteen. That was kind of win like people like me. I'm just going to say the whole world is like no but I do think though that like there were a lot of people like Dr Sowell's became mainstream. The last five or six years right since about wind bloodborne came out. There were a lot of people who are like. Oh I couldn't get into dark souls by like this and then went back and we're like Oh dark. Souls is really good and that kind of game because also monster monster hunter like sort of monster. Hunter World came out and everyone like so many people have been kinda waiting for that. That's what got me into monster hunter. I wonder if I would play this now. Just be like Oh this is the shit like there's nothing weird about this at all. This just seems like a really fun game or if I played it in twenty eleven like Oh my God. This is so hard to get into. I don't get it I think so. You would probably love this game if you love world and and you and you will join the team. I don't have time for this list. Challenging to Yes yes because it and then you and you'll join the team all of us. Who are like begging Capcom to make a new one like a monster hundred world for drag Dogma and get more people on board and streamlined? Some some of the stuff because there is some of those weird like you know beginning of the decade like sure that quests and stuff where you're like Oh God just to the good stuff It seems like switch might mitigate that having an on switch 'cause you're kind of like whatever fetch quests on switched to me or just don't hit. They're not as much of a waste of time. But just because of the format like a hand held willing like when you're playing Switzer description you're like it's like Saturday morning. I'm just GONNA chill out like it's more like I'm more grainy stuff on the switch because I'm like I'm in Hammett or whatever you know like if you're sitting on your couch and you're using big screen mode on your switch. It suddenly irritating. Oh Yeah I should be playing some major media content screen. I feel like this is a real thing but it is. I guess. It's also like become my commute game. which is like how I often will almost most miss my stop every every day on the problem? Yeah that's a great sign so yeah I think if you have the time for it if either fits into a commuter Mutahar like me and just WanNa grab some coffee in you know. Stay in bed game than this is perfect for that kind of thing. Yeah I can't I can't talk enough about Dragon's Talk My love that game so much. Do you feel like you actually did the right thing by ignoring that. One quest giver like is this a situation. Where if you could do it all again you would still play the game that way? It love being powerfully over leveled. I also love being over level position on that Paul. Actually I don't mind so much because it's so oh I mean I was. I definitely over leveled the heck out of that one class so I still have a nice amount of things to try out and I'm still struggling. Also get my like my butt kicked when I'm out there and I don't know necessarily how to attack a problem with a sword and shield whereas before I was just making it rain arrows on a griffin So I wouldn't do it again the same way. That's for sure But I don't mind having all of the like now I just have it's basically like Like a free for all I could just go and try everything out that I wanna try and and actually don't mind that I feel like I I would prefer to play it that way. Then have it sort of handhold me. In the way that I think he was intending to So that way I think I kind of like broke it or remixed it in a really interesting way But it still doesn't take away the enjoyment of like having to learn all these new move sets and some of the some of the The enemies on fighting They're still really difficult. I still need to The other thing I forgot to mention was You have Companions alongside you these these N. p. sees that you You have one particular. That's like your left hand you if warrior with you at all times and then you can go to these stones and You just access the servers like the online functionality. And you can sort of you can pick other players Ponds which is what they're called and you can also send your ponds to friends games. I knew there was somewhere. multiplayer element to this game is that the main multiplayer component is like you can take other people's NBC's Yeah yes and then when when you like logging again you'll you'll get a notification that's like Oh you're NBC. Did this and you got all these rewards for you. So there's like a really nice way to constantly check into the server like kind of perfect for my place especially as of late I. I'm I'm moving away more from like the you know the the grind e shooter shooter that needs that wants to become your your part time job and like. I just don't have time for that anymore. So it's like it fits that it it just like a goldilocks game. It's it's just right if it's all the the things we needed to cool. Yeah that's a little bit like the feline. The cat missions. You can do in monster and Richard somewhere and I realize this is like a capcom game like they're both Capcom Games like the court. They really really do. They really are very similar. Sounds like I think I'm GonNa Shit. I think we'll have to play this game. Paul if we were to play this game him would you just describe each of the classes that we would know which one we would want to choose or that you would recommend so you're an archer I don't tend to play as archers invasive I we're gonNA play this I would want want to try one or the other ones so I mean I think I I've only just played two of them but I have a good friend. My coast actually my podcast co host. Start the CAM. He's playing as a mystic knight or something like that. So it's a blend of magic a hundred Sounds pretty sweet. Yeah so I think that might be the the one for you but there's a there's also like you can be a major. You can just do like magic just ham back and let your pawns do a lot of the you know the up close and personal stuff and you can just hang back. And he'll them him or her launch things from afar so yeah there's there's a good mix of thing I mean again. It's like a lot like monster. It's it's almost. It's like nearly impossible to do not find a weapon or a class in this case that that will that you'll love and Yeah it's just continuing to sell this carriers. We'll all be like it's only playing. Mushroom is just play mushrooms like dual blades. Always Malay I really like getting in those fights is owed dragon's dogma like animation locked kind of the same thing where you commit to an animation. And you can't get out of an enemies of the same way so it's like that same kind of comment because like I like that kind of Malay calm but sometimes in monster hunter pick up the other like the ranged weapons and there's rings these weapons gears of war like it's like you're playing with the machine gun and you're keeping distance Aaron like this you're trying to sell me. It's like a completely different engage. Play with that stuff. So that's cool that you can do that in in this game as well. Yeah that's what makes me want them to come out with. Let me play online with my with my mom and doc just capcom. If you're listening please. Listen they listen. They did everything they say now. So all this talk about resident evil nowadays so for all I know people are totally out. What we that's like demonstrate? I cannot confirm or deny that like resident evil seven being in first person. That was all us we were like. We'd love to play the first I ask you got to Kentucky split-screen keeping the energy out your dog mature. Let's go out. Let's make all right. I guess that's a good stopping point. They sure do you have anything else. You WanNa shut out twitter. Obviously people should check out the optional. If they want to hear more from Paul Paul email. Yeah Paulie Paulie Mayo ally Amazon Mario a Yo and yet You know if you if you like Here talking about drags Dogma check out. My podcast is the optional. PODCAST DOT DOT COM. We do it once a week and talk about how you play Dragon's dogma. Every single week since you're only dragon's dogma. So it's a giant podcast. Yes basically just like split screen. There's a destiny survey survey. Thanks so much for having me free showman. Thanks very much fall. It was it was a pleasure And we're back. That was a lot of fun now I have to play. Dragon's dogma damage. Let's let's talk about awesome non video game things. Mattie written something very exciting for off topic topic so I want to hear more about this so sure I will go. Oh for it so my girlfriend and I finished watching. Every single episode of elementary that has ever existed deter place that show with a different show. That is a thousand seasons long and will stick with us in the same way and she has never seen the wire and okay so the wire like award winning noted. HBO TV show of the early. Two thousands I believe it started coming out in two thousand two which is a year that we have looked up probably sixteen times so I should really remember what it is because every time a character takes out a cell phone looks at a computer uses a typewriter which many characters used typewriter Friday's show. We look at each other and we say two thousand to two thousand to two thousand. We're just living two thousand two so I saw the wire I saw some of it. I don't think I actually finished it. It was like when I was significantly younger that I was watching it. I had very different politics back then. So it's been really cool to go back and watch the wire again and be like. Is this show as good as everybody always thought it was. I'm a few episodes in and so far art it is it's just good and I also can't believe it came out in two thousand two because it's politics still still feel super relevant the way that we talk about policing now. So here's what the show's about the fact that in two thousand two is immediately important because it's it's like a post nine eleven show. You're following a police unit and also a gang that in Baltimore and those are two ensemble cast that you're sort of switching between there's a couple gangs but at the very beginning they just start you off with some of the characters who are members of this gang this group that's dealing drugs and then some of the police who are trying to you find these guys and get them and so you sort of start out being like okay like you've got some police characters you got some drug dealers and there's anti heroes on both sides but also like the police characters are dealing with the fact that the war on drugs which is fake anyway but it's not trendy anymore than they used to be constantly getting money the and resources and support for cracking down on drug dealers but now the counter terrorism units are all the rage and so these police are like kind of put upon but also you. Don't I feel sorry for them. Sometimes because this is a show that's very much about like corruption and the system and stomach failure and systemic failure like the show. No I mean the thing that about the wire that is like amazing and yet also disheartening central lesson in this way and that it's like the systems are bigger than you and and you can try to change them and there are many different characters on both sides of this very muddy divide even saying both sides feels pretty reductive for a show like this but who are trying to effect change in their communities and either are failing and interesting ways or like are succeeding in interesting ways and MHM that is. I don't know it's it's really fucking good man. I don't know it's a good show. It's on Hulu now. People can rewatch the wire if they want to. I want it. I watched watched I so I love the wire. I've seen it multiple times. Jason ever seen the wire I we listened to the segment because I'm always this is like for for him. It's always telling me to place we code into you for me and hit me. Always telling him to watch the wire because he's always like the Sopranos is the greatest TV show ever and I'm like you literally just should not see that. Seem like they're very different shows and they're both a fantastic. It's not really about better or worse but it's like if you want to start making broad proclamations about great TV or at least like all the great tv shows and the wire is definitely one of the great TV shows. I love the where I don't like the new aspect ratio. I feel like a weird thing to complain about. But it was enforced originally the first few seasons uh-huh and it was shot that way. It's like actually really amazingly shot show. I could like nerd out about any one aspect of the wire but yeah I agree that it holds up. It's a little stage era. You're the first season I think. Then I remembered it being when I watched it initially which was maybe like four or five years after it came out. I remember thinking this is like real like 'cause it just Israel Israel in a certain way it's like denser and not it doesn't hold your hand at all it was like a you know it was like before that kind of TV caught on. It was the thing that made that popular. It was like we don't have to have flashbacks. Do you remember the first episode. There is a flashback to the guy. iding the shooter in court. Yes like this Ashley Ashley. Found that really strange and talk about that when that happened. I Made Fun of allowed and was like I already knew that guy's name and was really proud of myself and my girlfriend was like I. I didn't remember his last name was gant. I was really glad to shed the flashback. There's like twenty seven characters on this show what he's saying. I was like yeah all right. Good point I guess it's like Nice that they're we're helping you. Well it's the pilot. Hbo I think forced that move prohibits. I didn't WanNa do it and it never happens again in the entirety of the show in that context. I I was like this feels wrong because so much else about this pilot has been about throwing us in the deep end. Yeah you just met twenty-seven guys like deal with it. You're going to have to remember who all of our don't know what what these terms are. There's so much slang that you've probably never heard before like it's so as a bunch of police procedural stuff which that's the other thing about it. That's interesting to me like I do feel like I have such a different literacy now for like what a police show is supposed to be and the wire. He's just not that at all like the police regularly being fuck ups and corrupt is like especially after watching elementary. Which for all of its enjoyable aspects is very much about fantasizing? The police presents Sherlock and Watson as superheroes essentially chilly. And like they're always right. They always get their man like it's it's a fantasy of police work. That is very sanitized and feels weird to watch at certain points. Because you're like this show so much on the side of police are unimpeachable like internal affairs on every presented as and tagging is like the idea that internal affairs would be investing Sherlock Holmes like how dare they like. That's that's like a frequent plot point. They do on the wire. You're like internal affairs. Should be investigating. Having some of these people was going on and like just watching a show like that as compared to because I love mysteries I watch a lot of these kinds of shows is and it's refreshing to see a show. That is not doing that in his like very unafraid. To make you uncomfortable about those systems they pick good premises. I remember number one I. I watched it not liking season two because people were like oh because it introduces the Stevedores and like the dockworkers and Barksdale clan takes a back seat a little bit and it just it just broadens. It's focused watching it now. It's like great like it's so interesting because it's so concerned with like the fall of the American working class and like unions and stuff and I'm like no much more about that season three I think is so much about cop stat. which is the whole computation where they're using statistics to try to like maximize efficiency? And so you had to go before these people and you would just get greened in front of everybody because like your numbers are down you gotta get numbers up led to all these terrible habits. I just listened to a reply all that podcast about com stat and the guy who invented it who then super regretted it and I was like oh I know about this because I watched the wire the wire it turns out the wires. Rendition of it was like pretty fucking accurate. Because that shows so like grounded in reality season for his schools and it's super heartbreaking and then five season five is the weakest that's about the media and it's where so David Simon show. Yeah and he was like an editor reporter for a long time at the Baltimore Sun. I'm pretty sure that's where he worked. And like there's there's a sense sometimes that he's kind of like he's like getting getting back he's got you've been grinding some axes and his kind of getting back things and there's like a whole plotline about like journalists making up stories that it's all a little bit broad maybe but man it's such a good show. I hope you hope you all I gotta get Jason Too. If you keep watching it you can help me talk him into watching it. We'll see we'll see so so. Let's talk about the good place finale. Another thing that we have. Yeah let's let me do so. I watched a couple of other things that I want to do. Quickly with a good place for a minute so I watch. dunkirk finally never saw it before. Have you seen that movie. I've still got my screener lying around but I never watched it and it's from last year right. Yeah Yeah I had had my screener to and I was I. I just never watched it and I was like okay. I'M GONNA I'm GonNa Watch this thing because I wanna watch nine hundred seventeen then it's a sequel. Just it's a sequel. All the ninety s seventeen to really all world war movies are sequels to World War One movies. That's how so I for some reason I was like well. I I should watch my like Archie Moore movies order. I guess I don't love more movies. dunkirk is a fascinating movie. Like whole. It's not I don't know what I thought it was going to be. But it's it wasn't that there's almost no talking in this movie. I wish I'd seen it in Amax. Because it's shot they switch aspect ratios and like there's some of the stuff like there's stuff in the sky where what's his name Tom. Hardy is like this pilot. And it's these all in a World War Two dogfighting that's going on and like the sky. It's just negative space like it's just this huge the sky just like going on forever and like these tiny planes and it's so cool so so basically the story of the rescue dunker and it was like a thing you know before America Join World War Two was like this great British retreat but they actually like people came through and saved hundreds of thousands of people in that allowed them to keep fighting. And it's just like this cool lake. It's a Christopher Nolan movies. Pieces clicking together the storylines are told on different chronologies. So like one of the storylines instead of a week. That's the one on the beach. And then the one of the Lake British civilians coming to help them set over the course of a day and then the guy in the air Tom Hardy over the course of an hour. But they're intercut with one another and then they all come together toward the end which is actually how inception works like everything kind of coming together. And it's funny because I think people I had thought this was going to be confusing. That there was some gimmick but having just watched the witcher I was like oh I get it now. Interacting more complicated than this this is easy like completely is just logical. Well so anyways I thought it was really cool. Movie talk about a lot but I won't but it's great. I recommend it and then the other thing I want to recommend is cheer the net flicks cheerleading documentary which we just finished last night. And and it's so good. It's so good. Have you watched any of it or having girlfriend saw it it sounded pretty good. I just haven't yeah. There's too many things and I was glad I was glad that we took the time to watch. It's about a junior college cheerleading team in central Texas. It's very like Friday night lights but about cheerleaders about people as well but it is. It's great and it really. Just I have a million thoughts about it like it's very complicated. It doesn't likes looks like cheerleading. Is Like fucking weird or like the fact that dangerous very dangerous like that's a big part of the show is that the trees and children and yeah I mean and it's these kids who a lot of them are. They're they're amazing. Like every kid on. The show is amazing as you get to know them they all had the hardest lives. Like it's heartbreaking. The stuff stop by their parents left them they were alone. They had nothing and they basically found cheerleading. As this thing and they're amazing when you watch them doing their tumbling routines and stuff it's like holy shit like it's it's like circus. Mix with gymnast gymnastics really amazing. But there's still this also this weird sexist element of cheerleading. Where like they still have to put on all this makeup put their hair curled conflict? And it's like hardcore athletes. But then they're also kind of being like nebulous shows during their two. So they're sexualizing young kids and it's it's he's got a beauty pageant quality and like they aren't officially judged on their appearance. But there's like one category that everyone kind of knows is the general impression category. So it's very the but in the end you just watch them and it's like it's just amazing like what they do and who they are and I. It's so good so I just loved it and I recommend that people watch it so so. That's a good place. We spoil suffering because I feel like I can talk. I liked this TV. The show. And I think that people should watch it the same way I take on. The ending was so good. Oh man emotions so I don't know how we possibly talk about it without spoiling it. So maybe we just won't we'll just say it was good but funnily enough like so my girlfriend and I watched the episode before the final episode. Which is the one that ends with? Chidi eleanor on the couch together. And they're like we have nothing but time that episode and we just stupidly thought. That was the finale when we watched it and it easily easily could have been like actually just end there and so we watched that episode like experienced all the feelings experiences about like conversation station of the ending and we were like. What are we think of this kind of open ended? That's interesting and then like moved on and then like the next day or something like I o nine or whatever it was like so pumped about the good place Melian Melian what we watched Denali so then that was just funny to me that like we got this bonus episode so that it's kind of parks and rec ask in the sense that it is super ties up every lose that and you could imagine which is like my only gripe but isn't really. Hey Gripe because I sort of expect that of a Michael Moore show at this point. It seems to be his his deal as a show runner. He's like I need to wrap up everything and give an ending that makes sense for their character and like calls back to one thing they said in season one ever end like everyone needs to have that happen like individually in a row and once. I understood that that was the kind of episode I was in. I was like yeah cool cool. I'm super enjoying this so I I liked both the second plus episode in the last episode the conundrum of the second class episode. This isn't a huge spoiler is that there's this challenge of if you're in heaven and everything is great all the time then. Nothing means anything anymore. which is apparently this like long standing philosophical debate on the good flavor? But it wasn't it was when I hadn't really thought about before but it makes sense in the show. Expose it like this show is. What's so amazing? That show is how they really explore actual philosophical concepts like that and and they do it in this really fun funny way and then like Janet it bad parts and it's funny. It's like magic show but I like that. And they put in a matrix reference. where he says he's like he's like she's my favorite philosopher like I had a Porta a picture of her next to like trinite address? Like Trinity from the from the Matrix because the maters is so cool which was totally this because the Matrix and the good place have a surprising amount uncommon and I didn't think about it until that episode. But they really do. And then if you remember in the Matrix he's like the first Matrix was a paradise and we gave you people everything thing and it failed catastrophically because like humans can't live in a world where there's no conflict like where they're happening which was also the premise of the episode. anyways I thought that was like a cool little. The shadow of that is a cool little influence. Yeah it's just a cool show. It's a cool show with good character as I was super like emotional about the ending and I loved. I thought it was still kind. Kind of an embassy was sending like it. They kinda had it all like they gave everyone unending but they also left. It open ended which was beautiful. That a show about the afterlife wound up up being about the big question anyways and about life and what it's like to live your life. Yeah only thing that we could ever really make a show about because none of us could possibly imagine what the afterlife we've raised. It has to be about ordinary human life right and it can leave the actual questions of what happens on the answer like the whole show was set in the afterlife. It was I think that was really beautiful. Man It's a it's a great show. I'm sad it's over but they ended up so yes it was great. Okay so that's it for me but like I mentioned we have a little bit from Jason Schreier because as our listeners probably know the little football a game called the super bowl happened this past weekend. Jason Schreier is a resident. NFL expert and asked if he could call in and tell us a story about the Super Bowl also also. So here's what we're going to do. He called me. I had them call me. And leave me a voicemail. I haven't listened to it yet and I don't know what he's so matenaer both hearing this for the first assigned this might be complete design. Every actions live reactions. But I'm going to play Jason Talking to US voicemail for me and I'll just let them take it away and we're GonNa see what happens happens. Okay so we go all right. Here's Jason Hello Kirk and Maddie. I am fating reach break for my book leads to give you guys a super bowl story at fell three of the week. Come back for one last. Stand to finish it. All off the season with glory So what's the Super Bowl because that was a fun one so the Kansas City chiefs base the San Francisco forty nine hundred the Kansas City chiefs. You're not really supposed to be there. They had obstacles are the best to be their first playoff game divisional around against the Houston. Texans they were down twenty four nothing and somehow managed to come back. Thanks to the magic of Patrick Mahomes then against the Tennessee. Titans they were also down double digits again managed to come back to that after so it chain link. Destiny is the thing. It was driving the candidates to glory so that in mind I place a wager. Here we go skiing and I was a little bit worried. I I am not going to live because the designers came out looking good. They've played the game exactly how they would want to play it to beat the chiefs. Dan Defense could running game game. They control the pace of chief. Seen stifled gotcha homes do not seem like he could do much of extremes happened going into you have time. I don't know if you guys saw this. This is this. Is I think the moment that really secured by fate that can with anything The for dinner get the ball back with about a minute and a half to try to make a drive happen Before halftime and get some points points on the board of it's an ten and instead they chose to run the clock out I. They didn't call a time out with she's sort of taking it back to them and then they didn't they just ramble without calling. Then they decided to throw it but they only have second wind up wasting on this time And it just felt like they lost all believable the conservative weird decision Secure nj though man that was like yeah I watched that the man back into the game. Battling third quarter is very slow. Um Twenty nine dollars control the pace again. Running the clock dragging out into the fourth quarter and is twenty to forty nine once again. People are. You're feeling like the forty niners in control of this game but you cannot count out. Have a home care electric young quarterback. He's he's incredible NCR anyway so he's driving down the field. I think a small wager on the game once again live at it is I feel pretty confident about. And that's where the message cuts off and then there's a second message for the rest of the story. Here we go okay your voice coming off their where was I wake up So it was twenty nine. I believe there were twenty ten minutes lots awesome game chiefs on the ball. He's driving. I'm playing say a wager on the chief live bet which was about three to one odds islands like okay. You know this is i. I have a feeling I just kept them. Ucla but she's GonNa win this game. The drive the drive in very suddenly Pat Mahomes through. It was a terrible picture. It was was thrown a little bit behind. Receiver Kinda bounced off. His hand into defenders are armor was worrying. I will say Hank turned into people in my party and I was like you know what I feel. That she's GonNa win this stay. Don't go anywhere. Kick back to the chiefs chiefs drive drive home gets it in the end though. That's down certainly. It's two thousand seventeen that my friends in the party. Who have been on the forty nine hundred getting a little worried and seventy feels like the momentum lament as a one man and Patrick mom? Needless to say forty nine ers. Don't do anything get back to score yet again. It's twenty to twenty four for For Nine back forty niners are actually making some progress. They have a chance to win. The Game Jimmy Garoppolo the quarterback who was traded from the New England patriots new years ago he had a great performances. Backup with Tom. Brady hurt chuck set up in the air and I think a lot of quarterbacks would've made this throw and completed the throw because the the Receiver of annual Sanders was wide open. He had gotten behind defenders He was running if he if this throw had been curfews thrown it would have been an easy touchdown. He scored and Fernandez was the up. Twenty twenty four but because Jimmy Garoppolo the the handsome wander drove. Read a little too far. It's not land in the receivers and an instead. These nightmares had to eventually give the chiefs scored again just run up across just ensure that my tease of the over and the chiefs would win. Thank you thank you Damon Williams. I appreciate the chiefs. Won The game thirty one to twenty congratulations Kansas City. Congratulations Andy Reid. Congratulations homes and Kirk natty. Thank you for listening to write a book by congratulations to Jason Too for congrats on winning something and also also holding went over on around your friends around the table watching the game together. That's that's true. I did know the chiefs would win so because I mean I knew the outcome but I did not watch the super for Bowl. So that was a good recap either and I appreciate that recap to hopefully our listeners did yeah. Let's let's do your music pick of the week. Yeah okay so there's a new strong. It's about rush vans. People have been great rush a lot. It's a very fun band and a very strong songs Z.. Man like allow complicated shit that I can dig into so after Neil pure died and I learned that his name is pronounced. Neil pure while making in this episode Neil IRT. It's Neil and but it's it is clear. Yeah so Neil Neil pure. Their drummer are amazing. Legend of rock drumming died last month and a bunch of people had written in more. Like you should do an episode. So I did and I didn't Tom Sawyer. which is the one that everybody knows? Everyone knows Thompson. It was like in rock band. It's the famous one. It's in a bunch of movie Harry favorites and so on definitely like it's like the rare rush song that you can do Karaoke cokie twos and so many of them are like minute. Yeah third rain that needs to be covered in order for you to sink. Well yes you're stopped anyone karaoke. Are you okay but lease tough. But so I wanted to do a rush pick the it was kind of like something that people might not know because if you only maybe maybe not Tom Sawyer. You should check out some more rash listed a lot of rush last couple of weeks. What a man? There's such a fun band so this is actually the first Russian I ever heard. My friend played it for me. One of my best friends in high schools drummer. And he's like you gotta check band rush this. The song called La via strategy auto and this is from their nineteen seventy album hemispheres. It's one of those. I think it has four songs on this album. Because like two of the sons or fifteen minutes and this is the closer and it's just like it goes a million different places. They're totally just kinda image showing off and screaming and like it's just totally self-indulgent thing but it's a very fun song goes a bunch of different places there's a swing section that sounds kind of like that acne music Zik whenever Wiley Coyote is building. Something reminds me of that rib. So I'll play a clip from that. Here's a clip from La via strategy Outta And that's that's rush man. That's excel along weird song and fitting many different elements into it as possible. That's what it was fun to learn more about pure as a drummer he is A. He is a really really great guy. Like I didn't know that many stories about him but I watched this big a documentary where he liked relearn how to play. After thirty years. He found a teacher and like learn a new style unless like always trying to grow and really thoughtful guy. Yeah he's got really cool. It is cool like a lot of times with those rock bands. You know it's like the guy was like kind of addict for like he's good musician. That's settled very much into their style. Al Right Track the drummer from Russia and the most famous guy learn traditional grip for. But no yeah you definitely did All right well let's let's let's call. It will be back in a week from Wisconsin. Well five talking. split-screen is the official podcast of Guitar. Dot Com. It's produced by Jason Schreier. Manny Myers and knee Kirk Hamilton. I edit mixed podcast and also wrote and performed our theme song and other music. You can find us on most popular podcast services and we hope you'll leave us a review if you like what you hear final episodes at guitar dot com slash split-screen. Email us at split-screen Echo Talk Taku Dot COM
There's Just No Escaping Fortnite
"In marvel studios of injures endgame the remaining avengers must overcome the aftermath of destruction and face their biggest challenge yet finding the resolve within themselves to defeat thanos once and for all the world's great heroes will finally understand just how fragile our reality is and the sacrifices that must be made to hold it in a story of friendship teamwork in setting aside differences to overcome an impossible obstacle get a vendor's in game on digital now and blu ray on august thirteenth new do on four k ultra h._d. Welcome to kentucky split-screen the podcast that always picks the most interesting conversation topics at teatime time. It's august eighth two thousand nineteen. We've got a ton of stuff to talk about. I we cover some news of the week from e._s._a.'s wildly irresponsible journalists personal information to report of some welcome improvements at rockstars notorious lincoln testing student then many breaks sound some of what she saw watching the weekends yvo tournament and i reflect on how fire them has taken over my life then we're joined by kacoos talk riley mcleod to talk about his trip to the night world cup and why it might be that fortnight tends to make people so grumpy because that was off topic discussion of t._v. and books and then unusually optimistic music pick of the week stick around moving. Welcome back to the show as always. We're so glad that you've joined us to talk about video games. My name is kirk hamilton. I am joined as ever by the one and only mattie myers myers. Hello matty hello kirk. It's nice to see you again. This is our last week without jason. He'll be back next week. I know find smiling face and his unending sarcasm on the show. I think you'll be it'll be nice to see him talk about his book. Leave and i'm sure a lot of thoughts on various events in engaged in four weeks of release happening without jason like has beaten fire emblem yet or not have to wait a week to find out how going the suspense is killing me. <hes> we're gonna talk about some games. We're going to have riley mcleod on to talk about fortnight in the four nine world cup which is going to be pretty cool before there's been enough news. I would say in the last few days that we should talk about it. A lot of it is like bummer. News urge shitty things that have happened in the world. There was one happier piece of news as well so i the bummer news. I guess the first thing is this. Maybe this doesn't count this does not count as an official news item for reasons. We will explain in a moment but obviously everybody probably knows. They were too horrific. Horrific mass shootings over the weekend and a lot of people were killed and it was really horrifying. I'd sleep. I don't know about you but i spent the whole weekend just feeling freaked out and despondent and shitty it. It was just kind of awful weekend and one of the kind of narratives that came out of this was this g._o._p. Talking point blaming video games for a mass shootings. A classic talking point a real classic at this point. It's such bullshit that we're actually not going to talk about it. Joshua gra who was on the show a couple of weeks ago wrote. I thought very good article for kentucky saying this is just it's not something we don't need to defend video games these people. This is a smokescreen. This is not as yeah yeah. We should be talking about gun reform talking about background checks on all of these pieces of legislation that keep. I'm not passing. It's the exact right lengths. It's like five paragraphs or something. It says what needs to be said. Go read that so we're not gonna defend video games on the show because it is not necessary. Sorry next news item. That is also something shitty that happened that we can. Maybe talk about a little bit more was this u._s._a. E three press leak. That happened so maybe matty can you. I know you've reported. This out for kentucky can kind of explain what happened so i'll start at the beginning just in case listener has no idea about any of this which is mood find <hes> so on friday night in slack <hes> one of my colleagues can't even remember which one shared some sort of tip that they had gotten the i thought there was a list of e-3 registered journalists from two thousand nineteen that was on the e._s._a.'s website the entertainment offer association being the host of e three and that list was publicly available to anyone seemingly of the contact information. Yes list wasn't just all the journalists names right. I should clarify it was also their phone numbers and their addresses and in some cases those were work phone numbers and office addresses but in many any cases they were personal cell phone numbers and personal home addresses and also email addresses but you know that's a little bit less of a real deal breaker than a personal cell phones and home addresses are so that document somehow was hosted publicly for anyone to download on d._e._s._a.'s website for the past couple months possibly earlier than that and this was discovered somehow but it wasn't like like a widely known thing and it was something that journalists were kind of talking about on friday night but nobody was reporting on it because for reasons that are probably obvious joy listeners soon the fact that that information is available and could be accessed by bad actors like your gamer gators your eight channels and so on on is not something you want to just tweet about necessarily because that's that could put a lot of people in danger so friday night was kind of a tricky thing and i remember even responded by i being like let's wait and see what happens with this. We can't report on it right away or whatever he said. I'm paraphrasing of course <hes> and then saturday morning i woke up and it had turned out that there was a youtube video publicizing this leak and and the youtube video was made by this woman safiya darwitz and i believe when she made the video and i did talk to her as well all about this <hes> i believe when she made the video she thought that the list was no longer publicly accessible to anyone <hes> so she made this video after having received in an anonymous tip from someone else via email that the list existed and she talked to some other reporters she knew and tried to ensure that this list was taken taken down before she published the video but <hes> she unfortunately didn't realize that the list actually was still available when she published this video and and that list then ended up in a lot of unsavory places after that and i guess it's sort of debatable that's debatable from a journalistic standpoint like wendy's publish the story how what's what's your responsibility ability to alert people have information like this. Should you be contacting all these journalists privately and asking them you know do you know about this and like contacting contacting the essay privately or should you be publicizing this information to hold their feet to the fire and i i think that's sort of an interesting ethical question that people we'll have been debating since then especially since <hes> in the past couple of days it's emerged at the essay was using this form of distributing journalists information in other years years of threes existence as well. I think there's a two thousand six hundred two thousand four list that are also seemingly less accessible than this twenty nine thousand nine list became because because that list ended up on a few unsavory aiming forums but i i don't know that those other older lists necessarily did doesn't mean they won't in the future of course but just the fact that the a._s._a. Had done this and seemingly didn't care. I don't know there's also just in. I wrote a report about all of this on saturday. I talked to a few different people full about it and <hes> tried to present the situation in as neutral away as i could despite obviously having my own personal stake in it. My information wasn't leaked but some of our colleagues komodos were so i was and many people i know personally were their information was leaked as well so you know that was a difficult story to report anyway but then also another story i could recommend is that robs acne advice <laughter> slash waypoint wrote an editorial. I believe yesterday about the essay and the fact that in in rob's view anyway this these journalists contact information was sort of is the selling point of what the essay has to offer to eat three exhibitors at this point like they don't e- three his arguably declined in relevance. We've talked about that on this show a few times but something that they can still offer is all of this contact information for journalists and so the idea that they would be sharing that in unsecured way is to me reprehensible especially in you know these post gamer gate times relaxed a better way to put that <hes> but i can understand why it happened and that's something that robert articulated pretty well and his editorial. I thought anyway. I've been talking for a while kircaldy. No i think breakdown yeah. I liked rob's pieces well. Just i think this is super negligent and also not surprising. I was thinking about over the weekend. Just sort of watching this happen and knowing the people i knew were on there and that people were getting kind of you know harassing harassing phone calls and stuff like this is already had shitty consequences and it's just such an it's an incredible fuck up for this to happen and total. It's just it's really big. Fuck up and then again like you said and like rob really well articulated. This is not surprising to me because the e._s._p._n. Like of course they just have a spreadsheet with everyone's totally totally lake home information on it and stuff and they totally thoughtless about it like that is completely the way that this organization would operate because they're like oh yeah we have this list. We keep keep it. We give it to our p._r. Partner as we want people to contact you to try to sell you stuff and like he said i think he just he really put it well. I have a quote here from his article. Lincoln show notes. He's in a way this happening. <hes> it made explicit how the perceives the value of the media that attended show a reveal that increasingly what the e._s._p._n. Is selling is not the media nia coverage around e three but the direct access to the media so they made a list of people that someone might someday want to cold call. They sent a weird chachi two out of the blue something like that complete with the place that you could send it which is like completely true. I've gotten you know i'll get not anymore but i would get random mailings at my address from companies which is something they do and that's not harmful or anything. It's a little creepy sometimes when it happens but that's just like kind of was the world and is maybe still the world of games p._r. And it it kind of overlaps overlaps in this way that they would just be thinking oh yeah this is all this information and no one there ever had the thought of like actually it will be super bad. If this was on the internet or people anyone was able to access excess this so it strikes me as very thoughtless. That's an in no way excusing it. It's just i it doesn't surprise me. It pissed me off. It's really just a negligent act yeah yeah. It is an act by the way and i i don't know i mean the weekend also just got me thinking a lot about how to report on something like this this which was obviously a question i had for myself on saturday. <hes> like the youtube video is already out there. I've sort of obliquely made it clear what i think about that youtube video so having been put up but just from my vantage point of being like okay so now it's news a few different sites have covered it. I suppose we should also cover it and we got a pretty. Are you serious discussion about it in slack that day about whether how to cover it whether we should cover it and what we shouldn't shouldn't say in the report and that sort of thing because even by publicizing louis ising a huge data leak of any kind even if it weren't one that affected our colleagues or peers you are perhaps surfacing the knowledge of it to more bad actors and that's just something that journalists always have to be aware of when you're writing about anything that is this information going to end up in the wrong hands. And when do you leak something or post. Something and i mean that's that's something we have to consider anyway. We're talking about like video game leaks and those those things are sort of low stakes compared to this <hes> but but it's still a consideration that we have is how how does posting this article affect somebody's job or life or whatever but this was a surprisingly high stake saturday for me where i thought i was going to send my entire weekend watching ego which i still did and i still we'll edited some some great articles from our freelancer in walker about ego but i definitely spent a lot of hours on saturday working on this article nicole and just feeling really upset about it so that was just saturday. I didn't even have to do that and i was. I was feeling pretty pretty pretty shitty about it at the beginning of the day so i can only imagine and then of course the weekend took such a turn it was a pity but super was but <hes> okay there's one more news item and its positive so hey listen this this little news segment on a positive note rockstar games <hes> we recently reported stephen even jason reported on kentucky that rockstar games is making their employees at their lincoln <hes> testing facility fulltime so they were contract employees before and now now those those employees are getting fulltime and just more broadly. Jason said that he's heard from people there that in general conditions at <hes> that that lincoln location have gotten way way better since last fall which was when jason of course reported this massive expose about working conditions at rockstar specifically at lincoln where things were really bad <hes> something i'm sure listeners of the show know about and have read that article be linked to it of course but that is some good news and it's nice to hear that that happened that things are better for the folks working there and <hes> yeah a nice example of sort of people being willing to come forward and talk to the press and get those stories out there and then things improving as a result so hey. It's a good thing that's journalist cartilage. Sometimes it's journalism. Sometimes it's cool. Let's talk about the gains. We've been playing. I've been playing. Well really just one thing but i want to talk. Curb your weekend but also about anything even playing sure. I'll talk about a little bit so so obviously on saturday i was planning to play more games that day and not spend when was the day working on an article but that wasn't quite what happened <hes> but i did always still watch some staff. I guess i'll just still recommend and <hes> checking out some of the matches or at least some of our coverage of them. There's there's a really fun article about sonic fox and go ichi ongoing rivalry in dragon ball fighters writers <hes> every sonic fox article is it's sad to hear from that guy so there's been a longstanding rivalry between the two of them. Sonic fox won first prize last year and then this year go h he finally defeated him which is a very long running climbing up model for for him and in that moment it's it's just super cute 'cause go just burst into tears and just like collapses them. They hug each other and you just see that like although their rivals they also this like very strong friendship and it's i dunno it just a super cute thing and it's nice to see competitive additive gamers who are just also friendly. I don't know i feel like it's such a stereotype that that isn't the case and it's not really true and so it's just nice to be able to highlight something something like that. I love stories of rivalry like that in sports too. I feel like that happens a lot where you have that one person that you're kind of always up against and you kind of become friends just because oh could you not <music>. You're always up against one another in your equals in so many ways yeah so that was really quest awesome to see insomniac's still one mortal combat because he's still we'll amazing play multiple games really well and get madison them which is a thing that's possible for some but yeah so that was that was fun to see but also still just blend ben playing phoenix right which is just a really great game. I don't have to talk about it again but it you know it when times are stressful. There's just nothing like solving a mystery or like mystery procedures as well. It's like the same neat feeling you you get from like completing something being like at last all the pieces fall into place and like i just feel like such a frigging genius when i'm solving these and also phoenix right has some really fun twists and turns and i don't know it's just been it's been really hitting the spot these past few days in. I needed it so yeah. Shout out to phoenix rate nice. I can totally see that. I feel so i played a game that was also hitting the spot different in some ways but similar maybe and others at least in that it's a japanese game with visual novel elements that that of course is fire emblem three houses. That's just my life now. I just play emblem and occasionally make podcasts. That's right. That's what i do. Occasionally really you sleep now. I've played so much fire over the last i guess since last week since i talked about it. Okay love it to death. It's amazing. I guess i have some specific thoughts. I can share but i just mostly i just i love it so much. It is so many things that i love about video games and i love it. It's on the switch because because it makes it so easy to play this is you can never be without it. You can just carry fire environmentally makes it so easy which really is kind of nice especially living with emily and you know we always just in my room playing on screen. I can just come out and kind of set out in the living room and play this. You know whatever seventy one hundred hour however many times i played through it you know three hundred our game and still be out and be around people which makes it much easier actually to dedicate that kind of time especially these days when i feel like my gaming time is more limited. I've really been able to play a lot just because it is easier to fit into my life but yeah so man it takes me back to playing persona four golden on the vida which was the same kind of feeling blink just <hes> i love this thing on this show this mobile gaming device i just wanna take and play everywhere in playing dead and play during the day and play on the couch and just carry around with me because i'm so into the story and the characters and everything there's so much to do in this game so just very the briefest of whatever like summaries of this game for anyone who somehow doesn't mean it is. It's like a mixture of like teaching school. Semi friendship simulator not really a dating dating simulator to with like technical tactics jere p._g. She's like top down. Turn beast really complicated tactics and that's the game you're like at a school for military kids and it's like hogwarts for for generals and they're learning to fight and there's a lotta politics. It's surprisingly rich. Laura and you know the three houses are kind of you know from different parts of this world and they're eventually going to kind of be at odds with one another. They already kind of you know from the beginning. There's a you know the history of this kingdom is very much like the one house easter rule everybody and then the other house for independence and then now they're their own kingdom and there's a lot of like cool backstory but they don't all love each other but they're all in school together and it's fine and then eventually it will not be fine. I gather and i'm kind of recruiting people to my house hoping to like save all my favorites. I you don't have to kill them later so okay. Let's think couple thoughts too easy. I guess it's really easy on normal difficulty colty and so i knew this going in normal difficulty that permit athlon or the other one. It's confusing yeah so there's difficulty and then there's mode right right. Difficulty is normal hard. That's just like how hard enemies hit hard. Do you hit and then mode is classic and casual and that's if you lose a unit on the field the old they're dead forever. That's classic and casual is just like they're out for the game and then imagine they come back the battle so i'm playing a normal classic which which means if i lose anybody who's in for good but i never let that happen. That will never happen to my children will ever never let my beautiful children die. If it happens i just i would blow to save if i needed to but really you have where you can just go patches suber forgiving like it's you have a limited number of uses but you can upgrade these statues that give you more and more uses at this point. I'll use it for just casual things like oh. I didn't realize if i moved there. That random little thing would happen. I'm just rewinding it like it's a it's a six uses per match or something but also my characters characters are like huw larry ously overpowered like they're just they over level because i did a lot of like you can. Kinda grind a little bit on these side missions so like my kids all just got really mighty eighty during these grinding things i'll explain why okay you know what i was talking about this last week. You wanna recruit kids from other houses and the best way to do that. It turns out known it was totally sure when the game first came out but the best way to do that is you want to raise your support level with them to be which means like hoc- is the first level and yet you talk to them and then they kind of gets a little bit and then it be it's like oh we're becoming friends and once you're be they'll actually just come. Join your house like you don't have to do any of the other requirements like level of skills. You don't need like flying or writing or something when you guys soared guy like you don't need that so you don't have to do any of that. Just give them a bunch of flowers and they'll eventually become friends with you classic video game thing of just like here. I'm going to just can't i don't even care and now you like me like what a healthy worldview but <hes> i mean whatever it's fine and <hes> and so i've been doing that and then getting these kids to play but one art getting these kids to join me but one other way to do it is if you fight next to someone on the battlefield like if you do move and you're standing next to them. There's then these little hearts appear because like your you get a little closer to them so what i was doing for a little while which is pretty fun as you can get a kid from another school to come. Join your class and then for that month. They just fight alongside alongside you and they don't get any x._p. Or anything but they're just they're so i would do is my main. Character is like a just lord. He's like a demi god. He is totally unkillable. He he just walks <unk> out there and every leaky just kill harm by himself so i'll just send him out there and then have the other student that i want her to stand behind him s._e. Just kills everybody and they just has gradually become work like closer which is cool partly because it kind of makes sense that happening hang out on the battlefield the cool teacher you realize teachers really powerful and strong and you're like this guy has a lot of times and win. They join your house. They'll say things like that. Oh i feel like i learn a lot from you. I want to join your house and it kind of makes sense so it makes more sense actually than here a bunch of flowers from your answer which is creepy and weird instead is said to makes a little more sense so anyways. I've recruited who i want. I've been very specific about not recruiting. Some people really love. Some of the kids. People really love like burnin data is this kind of shut in student from one of the other houses who i know is great and everyone loves her but i'm definitely planning on playing this game again and i don't want to just get all the good characters on my first time through so i'm letting her hang out which means i'll probably gonna have to fight her at at some point and that'll be too bad but <hes> i'm letting that be just because i want to have something to look forward to but i've got a few kids that i wanted to get so now. My my group is kind of set and it's just about mid maxine and i'm just playing through the game and not worrying about that stuff as much just doing socialization trading with other teachers. It's definitely really easy now partly because i repeated a bunch onto those battles to get the students to like me but like it just leveled everybody up to the point where they're lake ten levels the oh yeah they'll just one hits everybody which is still fun. Surprisingly it's still very satisfying and because i can't let anyone die. There are times were all like overextend and you know someone will take a couple too many hits and it'll get kinda hairy harry there was one mission i just did there was a high level monster that was a real challenge and it was fun and made me realize i think how much more fun i'd probably be having hard because i gather that even hard. Isn't that difficult. There's is going to be one more difficulty mode. That's gonna come out or something yeah so i would say. It's a little easy but that's fine because like you were saying. I mean this this weekend weekend. I was totally just like freaked out and feeling really shitty and playing this wonderful wonderful game where you just walk around the school beautiful music plays and you talk to kids was a very nice thing to be doing so i was just. I didn't mind that it wasn't challenging me that much. I i don't really care the story's really good. It's a great game. I'm really just in love with it. I think it's great and and i'm gonna keep playing it for ever so i'll probably be talking about on the show forever. Jason comes back some some fresh life in there. It also sounds sounds like you might be recommending for anybody listening <hes> who hasn't played it yet and wants to if they are completion est like you and maybe they're gonna play those extra side quests. It might be better to start on hard hard because i would say if you've played a game like this before and you do any kind of min maxing or leveling or anything that yeah you're gonna be fine on hard. It will be hard at the very beginning like the first few matches. You'll be thinking whoa this is surprisingly tough. I was even thinking that a normal but then very quickly you'll be over leveled and you'll be fine and so i i would say that'd be my recommendation and i'm happy with the path i've taken i think that doing golden deer for the story and then doing black eagles is going to maybe workout and i still don't really no all the twists and turns that are coming but we'll see we'll keep people posted <hes>. The only other game thing that i wanna share is really briefly. I've been playing betray legacy with my board game group. <hes> that is is a very fun haunted house game. I've talked about it a few times and it's a legacy game so each game is different and in this game it's like you're exploring one hundred house and then at some point the hunt begins and one person usually becomes the trader and then they're kind of. They're in different rules for each trader. Sometimes it's like they have a monster nightmare with them and sometimes they're like <hes> the furniture comes to life and there's no bad guy and you just the furniture. I don't want to give too many spoilers or anything but i'll be vague about this because we had the best game ever last night of betrayal legacy see that we've had yet it was a major turning point in the story which getting the sense that most legacies have this point like legacy games where everything flips upside down on something crazy happens happens and you're like oh shit here we go and always kind of happens around a third of the way in or so and that's what happens here is something will happen but the story i want to tell is this. This is so funny we there's a you know you you explore the map and you go into a new room and you don't know what's there and you just flip a tile from tile deck and that's like it could be any room so maybe some remigino or maybe it's a new room that was added to the debt for this game and it was the padded room which is a silent room in the basement and i i'm like okay. I have to draw one card. In this thing happens and then i look at the text on the cards as well. You were in this car while you're in this room. You have to whisper and so suddenly i'm like. Wait a minute what and so everyone's like dudayev to start talking whispering and we're like we're at a loud you know bar in portland playing this so but i'm like are sticking with this and also what happened was is because of the nature of the room it triggered the haunt which means all this stuff happens and i'm gonna have to read from this book of all the things that are happening. I turn to this page and entry. I read like flavor protects everybody but i had to whisper the entire thing so it was so super funny and i spent all the time whispering and then all of the planning time where you have to react to. It just happened everybody else. I'm playing it. They're they're all talking and figuring things out. I'm just sitting there like literally can contribute can only whisper known only it was so funny and then the very occasionally interjected everyone would be like wait what what and i would always something and it was just really really funny and a great little clever thing that they did to the game that made it so funny and special and like added this cool moment. The game has a lot of lake. It's yeah it's fun in that way is very playful and clever and like plays with you and messes with you and there's a great time so i do recommend that and yeah had a great time playing cling it. It's really good all right well. Let's let's bring riley mcleod on. Let's talk about some fortnight's. Let's let's so everyone stick around and we'll be back back with a rally mcleod. Riley mcleod is editor at large echo dot com among in many other things he covers fortnight and <hes>. We'll really all kinds of gains for the site. He's also a good dude and a former colleague of mine and someone that i miss working with hello riley welcome to split screen <hes> hag manny heartwarming riley intro welcome but <hes> one of the best things about doing these these segments mensah last few weeks has been. I get to see all my former colleagues if only for brief conversation on the show so that's kind of nice let's get into it. You recently attended the fortnight world cup. You wrote a fantastic article from the <hes> from the ground level from the scene and <hes> yeah it was a really fascinating look at the whole event. I thought <hes> could you maybe take listeners through the four night world cup and and i don't know just to sort of recap that article a little bit for anyone isn't ready yet. Yeah <hes> <hes> the fernwood. The cup was in queens new york the arthur ashe tennis stadium. I actually the day before it was stuck at laguardia. Which is the airport in queens and it took me three hours to get out of the airport and i was like should i live in queens. I had to come back in the morning. I was literally like maybe i'll just get a hotel here. It's a nice place to live on. That's that's the where stream and it was cool. There was a fan festival outside and then there was the <hes> friday was the creative world finals and the an celebrity ready parameters saturday was the duo's finals sunday was the solos finals <hes> and it it was i was prepared. I think when we think about kids loving loving for night and given the hype that epic had made about the event. I thought it was going to be a mob scene but it was actually really sweet and uh not chill but reasonable. Maybe and reasonable is all you can go for the acoustics in the actual event were horrible. <unk> actually was just talking to an architect friend and he was telling me why the arthur ashe stadium acoustics are so bad because it gets the ceiling is too low. He liked nerd out about this. I just wanted to talk to him beaufort fortinet because his kid plays for at night but he was like no. Here's all these fascinating facts this is this is a tangent that i'm not going to go down but my recent obsession in the last year has been restaurant acoustics and russian goes you have terrible acoustics and become fascinated by this one to do. I don't know go report a freelance story for someone about this or something because it's very interesting. Stadium acoustics are super interesting interesting sort of couse six or fascinating and i know what you're talking about. There's so many times you see something and you just can't hear anything and you're like. Why is this happening problem with e. Sports i know this is i think riley first big covering in east sports stadium event. We talked about it a bunch for you went because i've done a few of these and it's always super hard to hear the game the the commentators anything else that's being might it's a real audio challenge in these events to be able to broadcast something where you need to be able to hear clear speech is being said but for hundreds of people in a stadium it's a real nightmare and like the sport is kind of the eastward that whatever the game is difficult to watch so as as a result. It's sort of like you really need that commentary to be telling you what's going on without it. It's even like watching a basketball game if you couldn't under there is no announced her two best game. Actually you can just tell what's going on yeah yeah but a fortnight or something i could imagine it's a little more challenging yeah it was it was hard to follow on saturday. I watched it from home because i got hung up with some work in the morning and the epoch for the world cup launched like a new stream like a lot of people watching the qualifies up to the world cup about a little frustrated by the stream and the new stream had like standings things in different channels that were falling different people and all this info and it was like so great and then watching the solar finals while i was there of his like would is happening. I can only tell us everything is a blur yeah on the plus side like i feel like i got way more excited like people would cheer because the point of the event event is to be at the event i mean it sounds like it was as much just a happening you know everybody was together and sharing the energy as it. Was you know about seeing the show. I kind of want it. So you kind of ran down a list of events could you maybe go with a little more detail on what each of those things was the creative finals and what those things each are like how the just a little bit more for people who who might not know what those things were yeah so i made <hes> has a bunch of different modes. It's not just battle royale. <hes> as most people probably know it started as save the world which which is like a single player or not battle royale version <hes>. I've never actually played save the world but i was just actually watching a video of it today and i was like i should buy this <hes> but then the battle royale has a playground mode which is like a there's no like a private island kind of your friends can come or you can be by yourself <hes> and then it has a creative mode where people will make their own islands or game modes or stuff like that and said they have <hes> can't remember when they announced the creative world finals but leading up to it like different and creators made different maps and then people had a play them and submit their clips <hes> i think i tried one of them and i like the first one they did an i bond bond and then the creative finals were a bunch of different teams and <hes> a bunch of different game modes. One of those games is actually on. I think on the in the game today oh so these are like game modes players make that players can compete in those modes. It isn't like a creative cup to see who can create the coolest thing yes. I did not know yeah. That's what i thought to expect. I would've assumed it was a little hard to watch for me because it was like this is a mode. I've never seen before and i can't explaining it right. Don't know what's happening but they seem happy. I'll cheer interesting. Okay yeah that does seem like the present a challenge for a tournament like and it's like a calvin ball tournament you know every different every single time and right that would that could be tricky to keep track of the as a bit confusing using so he said there were like meet and greets there was sort of a fan aspect to the outside the stadium there was a i guess that was like a real life battle pass and and there is things people could do there was like a mini golf course that was set up like with different locations <hes> there was a lot of those guys zip line thing. There's a big roly ball obstacle like a big plastic bubble that you get in like like answer ball symptoms simpson's branching out of the simpsons lately so everything feels feels like the simpsons and <hes> so there was little trivia contests which were actually cool kids are in the people in general who competed where like so smart at trivia dance contests 'cause. I'm like a kid corrected. One of the questions yes is in it and the the announcer was like yesterday you were in and you told us when questions is wrong and you were correct my god i think something that's so fascinating about for aid and and also makes it at least for me a little hard to covers like it the the official lower and the fan lawyers seem to blend together so well that sometimes i'm like wait mm where did that come from and they try to hunt down and sometimes it's like oh yeah and save the world. This character is named this but in other times just fans somehow come to consensus us about the name or the names of places or people or or you know a nickname for something in that kind of just becomes official alejos. They've used it but that was in season over. <hes> you know it was named kevin and i'm like i don't know how that happened but like we all agree with that and i feel like that's in the game now. I can't remember it's mass consciousness. That's really interesting and so. It sounds like this was a very i mean your article made this clear that this was a very kid kid friendly and kid heavy event. It was a lot of kids. Even the people competing in the most famous celebrities the things some of them were kids whose parents were also there. You have that amazing picture of what's what's the guy's name who mismatched parrots wearing shirts that identified them as parents because he's the celebrity and they're just there and it's like you got a pretty wholesome vibe from the whole thing like it was actually kind of a nice family event general yeah it. It's it's at least from what i saw. It seemed yeah. The youngest competitor was <hes> thirteen. I believe in the oldest all this was twenty four before i think <hes> so they told me twenty fourth so all all which is a wild to annum. It's so y- young to be tat anything and i'm so curious about just what that must've just a ben leg to fly there and and be a kid and to do the stove yeah. I was really surprised just looking at your photos you you blurt out a lot of the kids faces but you can tell even from the photo how young the attendees are at this event and not even just the competitors but it it definitely seemed different from a lot of sports events. I've attended where there's maybe teenagers <music> but not teenagers who were that young and not like tweens and really young kids so yeah i don't. I wouldn't expect it something like that firstly but i guess that's the fortnight audience. Yes wait before i went. I was visiting my sister and my nieces and nephews who are eleven to five and you wrote an iconic game diarrhea about letting them play with your switch go. How did that go. The save gone from. Why do kids go straight for the zelda. They know or something. How does that happen. I've read so many stories of head told them i i realized later that it's just mind and then they were the the littlest boy has five and the oldest boy whose ten were sitting on the couch and they were like oh we started zelda again and i was like oh don't worry we made a new guy. It's cool. I needed to start again. I mean honestly it's not even their fault because it intendo has made it like start a new game. I had to make a new account to make a switch and you're like literally. The only thing i don't want you to do is to leave. It was perfect so you're already in kid mode coming but they don't they don't play for at night but we've gone somewhere and we were waiting in line at the little the five year old boy started doing the fortnight dances and i thought it was so weird. Mr doesn't doesn't let them play it. They've never played it but they know already answers and i found that really strange. Oh yeah that's like a thing. Elamine teacher friends out here just talk about their kids doing it all the time and i don't. I don't even i mean i'm sure there are kids play but it's way beyond that i mean kids. Just stand there flopping and all times. I think he's just a constant thing. I thought it was interesting that in the article okay you said that a lot of the most popular streamers <hes> a fortnight didn't qualify for the world cup so it was actually a lot of players that weren't that familiar to people with some some of the best players but they weren't the same as like the the celebrity content creators yet and this is the first time i think that all the players on the different regions of play together so i know in the silla finals house <hes> this kid king from argentina leg he was a beast he was amazing and i'm like who is this like a thirteen and lake are there are other fortnight competitions like are there other places that you would have maybe heard these names or people who could follow like you know lower circuits before the world cuppers still newlywed there's been other competitions and then i and then leading up to the world cup there was ten weeks qualifiers which are all <hes> i watched oxygen right so like different people qualified according to region and then got <hes> okay yeah nice lots and stuff like that yeah i watched a lot of it and it was really i remember thinking at the bar down under my house once like watching it on my phone like one of the qualifying not wanna ask you so. I haven't played for dayton forever but what is the sort of. Is there a dominant strategy. What is the dominant imminent. What are the dominant players do in the game like how do they kill the other players. I recommend putting it. I think one of the hardest things things about for nine one one of the most contentious things that they're always adding stuff and taking stuff away and so the strategies change and says something like you know when they had the baller the hamster turbot vehicle that suddenly became this huge leap game strategy of bringing it with you into and unlike <hes> when they changed the like siphon mechanic so in competitive when when you kill someone you get materials and health back but in the regular version you don't and then that becomes a strategy and so it's just like always massively changing and they feel like there isn't really the <hes> as far as i can tell and i'm sure people who play it more will fight me. It's the strategist seems to be like figure out what the hell is going on. <hes> you know you have to building get a building high. Ground seems to be pretty basic level of twitch skills and just being able to shoot people with a mouse and keyboard right that just sort of all of these players. There's probably have and then the strategies themselves are just changing so quickly. It sounds like but nobody really. There's no set thing. That's kind of cool right. If it's a if it's changing so fast that that keeps it really playful and chaotic isn't just like a meta kind of metastasized then. Everybody just does that thing forever until they get sick of it. I really like that right but i can also see how a for competitive seen it makes things really complicated. Things are always changing and strategies are disappearing. Disappearing and weapons are getting stronger or weaker vanishing coming that that it creates a lot of upheaval in the competitive scene. I think it's cool but i'm i'm not a super competitive if player and they think if you're if you're good you can learn to be good with anything. I guess that seems like mattie from east parts covered. I'm guessing that's not the norm or it's not the norm but but i also think it's part of what has made fortnight works so well in its own specific niche where a lot of the people who play it are just entertainers essentially like maybe they're also very good at the game but because the game changes so often that lends itself very well to like a constant twitch schedule for example like if the game is constantly changing your viewers will never really get bored by the way that they might if somebody is just main lining counterstrike matches where the med has been pretty well figured out at at this point for how interesting it's interesting to imagine fortnight as a game that was kind of designed for streaming in that way i wonder in the before the world cup they they they banned stretched resolutions which is something that some players were using to get to see better <hes> in the blog about why they banned it part of it was that it doesn't look at <hes> really sucks doesn't look good for streaming and i was like well at least being honest with everybody is is playing. It's like pixels that are the size of the screen and they're getting. They're killing. Everybody really fast. It looks awful and no one wants to watch what we're about epic stream yeah. That's funny so you were talking a little bit about the media narrative around the world cup and like the winner and all the money i mean there's a lot of money tied up in this show. What are your what are how is that ben like. How is the media at large been reacting to this. I feel like a you know interviews with google. So as winter has a sixteen year old who won three million dollars. There's <hes> and i feel like from the non gaming world. There's just this lake off in shock and they saw him on. I just said i think it was jimmy fallon. Jimmy's <hes> but <hes> and they're like what it's a job. I can't believe how do you sleep noon. My god fallon alan. I feel like they have to know what this has been a don't know because it's a bit like video games. Josh kind of stick yeah saas out if it was if it's performed or not and i noticed this when i was visiting mr 'cause i was talking to some other kids. Some of their parents wants his kids play for at night and i'm talking to them but for it and like they actually have no idea what's inside it and so i was like the coolest adult but like the biggest failure ever grown. You're like rosetta stone. There's the name translates. The kids thought i was so cool and ah you know about why do you. It is actually this huge gulf and like we're just so all of us here on this podcast are just so in games that it it makes sense right that late late night t._v. Demographics aren't really you know there. I'm guessing they skews significantly older and there probably are more people who still are shocked to hear hear that someone could win three million dollars playing fortnight because they don't even really know what fortnight is. Maybe mattie could speak to this better like i i don't. I don't believe that but in this day and age people don't know what he's sports are sports are like you know spiritually is maybe different question but like i. I don't know what he's sports are spiritually and i can't. I don't have the capability to answer that question. Either does anyone but yeah i. I'm so far into this particular bubble that i also wonder under whenever i meet somebody who surprised by like i just got into a conversation at a party recently where somebody had like only recently heard of east sports and was like do you know anything thing about this like what people are winning so much playing games and i was just like yeah. It's a thing and i i it's not like i still have that conversation with people but the idea of kids or teenagers winning a whole lot of money playing a game is not something that's new to me. Malians of dollars is certainly knew like the prize prize pools for east parts have definitely increase in the past decade especially in the past five years and that's pretty easily demonstrated but kids were winning a lot of money playing playing video games in the two thousands like people were still playing starcraft counterstrike and so winning money doing it wasn't maybe as much of a job as is it is now but to me i feel like i can track that as a slow but steady increase the viability of that obviously the rise of twitch and other streaming platforms affirms has changed that and made playing games into a job and a lot of different ways so yeah for us. This is all like we've charted. Those things happening to us. This is all logical but there's still people out there who will run into who didn't know about any of this and who are like. I don't know a twitches. I don't know what these things are and i've only now hearing about them and they're crazy to me <music> so there's definitely room for another half dozen new york times cover stories with the image of the you know coliseum headlines something like they fill all this coliseum for video games. I wonder how many versions that article have been published in the last ten years because i think that it kind of ties to the broader video game narrative you go back another decade or so into the nineties. There's just such an irresistible narrative there of this thing that everyone was worried about that. There was a moral panic about that now now that everyone's like oh. This is an irresponsible thing for kids to do wait a minute. Actually it's a thing that can get you super rich and famous and it's really you know can be have have all these positive effects and that is just so such an attractive narrative that even though the narrative has been spinning basically the same story for more than fifteen years or something. It's still just keeps going and going on. It's own inertia because it's so irresistible. That's my kinda my sense of it anyways if i find it i just find the shaq really a strange <hes> yeah yeah. There'll come a point. I think we're maybe the shock is like less of a thing to get around as did a t._v. Interview you cup at <hes>. Mattie was helping me prepare it as writing down all these statistics and smart eastwards things to say and then they were like how do you keep goods from playing for tonight too much <hes> <hes> yeah yeah but they're still bad idea whatever you do any t._v. Interview interview they're always going to ask you a question that you could ever possibly predict an it'll be like something incredibly weird early says i wonder if if our narratives around gains are or will change with the changing of the times or like you know like my sister does know at trenches but her kids watch youtube and they had the you know they have minecraft the youtubers. They love and i love this idea that like t._v. For kids is is so much more sort of accessible to love this about patrick clinics. Mario stream where like people could be like people can talk to him. They can talk to their t._v. Heroes star you know <hes> and so i feel like it's changed the the nature of of t._v. Like the narrative ran games doesn't at least in the in the broader world. I don't know if it's changing along. It just seems like it's a generational thing. The more people that are familiar with that. They'll just kind of take some time. I feel like you have been getting into fortnight. What how long have you been the sort of main fortnight person that could <hes> maybe about a year yeah i kinda wanna hear about talk about that a little bit because this was not really a game that you played and then you kind of took on the the imbed as they call it. The kentucky trenches unperformed night. You know the biggest game in the world or one of these games in the world era and <hes>. What's that process been like. It's been like just becoming a fortnight player <hes> hard yeah so i am not a place in battery als but and but i'm i'm not i'm not good at them. I don't think that's true riley. I heard you incite describe a winning various battle royale probably good but when you are a modest person and i know this. I'm not generally a super competitive kind of guy right but if you like i play a lot of games like this because they they're short short to play at night and play cup rounds overwatch or whatever you know apex legends and <hes> and so it's been fun. I think one of the hardest things about being on the fortnight beat beat a is just learning everything so many things happened in changed before. I got there was this what was that like this season. The theme is like bring back old places unlike every time someone mentions a place. I like after run to the wikki and just like don't be over with. It used to be that <hes> and it's it's interesting. It's it's a it's a fun game in a lot of ways i mean it's you know there's a lot of funny things that happened. I think interesting things happen to me in a lot <hes> other people are there so many people i don't. I don't play with my voice chat on anymore but i reviewed the game. I'm back in may march some of that <hes> and so i was purposely playing with voice chat <hes> for that and that was fascinating <music> <hes> i was at fascinating. There's just so maybe it's true and it just feels like there's so many people and the world like <hes> a lot of lake spanish speakers a lotta people there. Mike's on a lot of kids like i think in something like a legends people who they're really quiet or by and large the sound like adults. I think i've only squatted up with one instead of kids when playing apex but this is just like kids and kids and kensington kids. It sounds kind of like if i'm remembering from a review there's a lot of just ambient life going on fortnight tonight on the mike just in the background because so many people play and they don't treat it that way that like more seasoned gamers street online chat where it's much more about direct communication meeting beating yourself when you're not asking for stuff like it kind of gets to me anyways that the fact that for night is culture as much as it is a game and i would think i think the like covering that figuring out how to cover that because you can cover patch notes and you can cover the crazy new thing players are doing but it goes beyond that right like you're kind of just talking about life life and a big part of people's life and then living their lives. Just it just happens to be taking place in the digital space. Yeah it's such a it's so sweeping. It's so hard to know what people want to read about or cover <hes> kind of articles. What kind of articles do the best you know. It doesn't make any sense the write ups and stuff like that those still do really well and like just but you know the weirder stuff we we could start having you write articles about the various kids that you over here in fort night riley. I don't know how that would do but it's just like i feel like 'second to nathan about this recently like i just can't get a bead on what people want to read about or what are ship about. I think one of the hard things about covering the world cup itself was is like because there are so many unknowns. I was like dealer readers wanna read about the nitty gritty play-by-play <hes> as in the press booth with some other like some east sports reporters and and i was listening to them talk and i was like should i be writing like what they're doing. Blow by blow leaders wanna read that like it strikes me the as so <hes> having done a b being the destiny embedded guy for kentucky for a long time which was very very different than for night but it was like a hardcore in bed and i was i lived the game for a couple of years and that was the only thing that made it possible to do kind of coverage on the level that hardcore destiny players would want and even then it was so exclusionary to other games. I was playing so much. Destiny made it tough to do the job and a lot of ways for nine strikes me as that as a game if you were just being embedded in the game and needing to cover all the new things and the strategies that were emerging in whatever like weapons changes in patch notes. That's already a lot to have the context for it. You need to be playing like so much on like living and breathing it and then and you kind of like have you can just really quickly back here. They they just nerves shotguns exactly that means like because i am annoyed by it too so i know i players are annoyed by because completely get it. That's tough and that's a lot a lot of work but going beyond that into like. I don't know you know d._j.'s doing live concerts important night and how to talk about that for people that just strikes me as you almost have to let this take over your life completely. Has that happened has taken over your life has riley's totally written by d._j.'s playing in fort night on the weekends of the time and those i also do well do i like i've never been a nitty gritty guns guy and that makes me like balance and whatever like honestly i think i don't send me angry emails but i often game picked the gun with the ridicule like the most and he's in this one super valid reason to convey good gun decision. I don't know so when people are mad about changes to weapons often like what and for nate makes that really hard because 'cause you you often can't get the things like when the new mexico just showed up you know stephen are editor in chief of it and i played for hours and i couldn't even get in more people given getting raised and i was like i can't even play in those because it's something was up with the mex- they weren't playground mode and so i couldn't even like get one <hes> so a lot of this changes ages. Just never come up for me because i can't find the weapon or can't do you think that if you like ask a just a given thirteen-year-old for their opinion on mexico would they have like a huge louis of thoughts because they've been using macs three hours. Yeah no totally would <hes> <hes> but i think the cultural stuff is more interesting to me. Personally elliot also more accessible cameras telling my sister about marshmallows in game fortnight concert and she's actually cool and i was like yeah you can talk to someone about that better than you can be like and then they they nerf siphoned batano right right but then like which things you could talk. Your readers is like the trickier question. I don't now i mean i remember a lot of people who read about the stretch resolution thing when nathan wrote about it and i was like what i don't understand. There's so much. I feel like people will. I wonder i've at there'll be listeners. This is skip over this segment. I always get the sense that there's still anger at fortnight that there's like a general dislike. I think there's a feeling of a fortnight. I don't care about at that. Even though it's this huge deal and it's really fascinating. There's also kind of people feel a little bit repelled by it in a certain way or a certain type of people. What do you think the having having been really in there and reading the game. What do you think that's all about man. It's a good question. There is a lot of heat for it in the like my comments especially for complain and like i don't think it's maybe it's just the the hype of its popularity. Maybe how often we're told it's popular. I think some of it also is just e sports. Audience who sort of used to a specific kind of competitive game becoming popular a game with specific constraints in an understood understood meta like we were talking about and fortnight is so different from that in so many ways and i mean battle royale in general have become popular but i feel like geez the more easily understood or at least was at first in some ways although there were certainly some difficulties in figuring out how to make it work as a watchable competitive game but four night is almost designed designed to be watchable i in a competitive game second in some ways like changes to it are based on making the game feel exciting and then sort of balancing after the fact and it moves so quickly and it's very like move fast break things in terms of how the game seems to operate and that's very different from the way that other sports work and then also the fact that the audience for it is so young and the streamers who stream it just i don't know the whole vibe of fortnight has has this sort of weird. G. rated vibe that a lot of sports doesn't have that. I think makes other people in eastport kind of be like. Are we allowed to claim this as being an east sport like i remember when ninjas i doing super well. There are a bunch of editorials in east parts that were like this is proof that eastport successful but those editorials were framed in a weird way favor people are like are we allowed to say that ninja is east sports because he's not necessarily the top fortnight player in the world. He's just the most popular streamer in in the world. Which isn't the same thing and i don't know just interesting to me. Yes it does the east sports establishment and hate for. I don't think they would ever admit at that but i do think there's an interesting tension there. I'll put it that way. There's also you know e sports. Kind of struggles like there are a lot of we're a lot of kudaka readers at least when i was there who would struggle with e. Sports like to engage with it or to seem like the you know it wasn't really their thing and i get the sense that a lot of people who don't care that much about east parts also are turned off by fortnight right. I think maybe part of it and this this is maybe a little galaxy brain but i think also like relates to the epic game store stuff which is as you know increasingly becoming this like really serious thing. That's like becoming this major flash point for some people. I land where you're going with this. We'll so i think so epic has kind of i guess you could say taking the popularity of fortnight and leverage that into the epic game store so the two are related just in that epic epic already a really really successful company. He just goes on real engine and everything like making lots of money but now making billions of dollars off a fortnight and then having that installed in so many computers using that as a way in to compete with steam okay yep so it's like there's a feeling that they kinda levered their way in and fortnight kinda levered its way into it was this game that was a different game and then they kind of borrowed. The mechanical stole the mechanic. However you wanna put it from another game and mike we're like well we're going to do it and we're going to do a better because we have whatever the engine and the resources so here they come. I'm and they do this thing and they suddenly become so undeniably popular that everyone kind of has to deal with them all the time right like they're just in your four nine just just everywhere. It's undeniable especially if view really like games and you're at a party and like you play video games. Tell me about fortnight and you're like god. I don't want to tell you about for me like i like playing. You know whatever some other completely other kind of video radio game so. I think that people resent that which i totally understand in the same way that i as much as i am not mad about epa game store understand the resentment on certain level that people feel because it's that same feeling of like well you've made it undeniable for me if i wanna play this game so there's a i think the deniability of fortnight and of epic games in general leads to some of that few those bad feelings toward epic and their products is that a is that a good theory yeah. I think present is a really good phrase f._a. Like people are very resentful of fortnight's success and they sometimes like in my comments sutphin a. and i always find it so odd because i'm like it doesn't that they didn't you know beat you for swim team or something. They're like any <hes> maria and yeah that does filter over to the epic game store. I mean you know the the passionate about the game store. I i am part hurt understand because every so often there's like features. I'm used to from steam that i'm like wish that began store had this but i'm not only send death threats to developers developers level. No i'm surprised you get just another remember how to open right and and of course it's like tornadoes as much as it tries to portray this family friendly image you know there is a dark side. They steal things. You know. Even the world cup like you know those people who cheated got to compete and everybody but he beat them. I think that it it tries to cover over. Its its nastier bits right brand raise right so a multibillion dollar industry. It's a super interesting subject interesting game. <hes> i recommend everybody read riley's coverage of the fortnight world coffee and rallies coverage of fortnight in general and really everything rights gosh. He's good writer <hes> rally. Thanks so much for coming on the show. If people wanna find you on twitter somewhere you work in. They look a boy. I i am a twitter at r._c. Mcleod r. c. m. a. c. l. e. o. d. lander pronounced like fox mccloud that spelled like highlander. That's the way whatever it all right well rally. Thanks so much for coming on the show having me and we're back. That was is a lot of fun. Thanks again to riley for coming on the show. I don't know if i'm gonna start playing fortnight and just don't have time but i carry asleep through riley's wonderful coverage on our website say that's that's all i'll commit to do. I feel the same way. Let's talk about some off topic non gaming stuff many. What have you got for off. Topic sure so. I didn't have a lot of free time this past week. I actually watched the democratic debates last week which is not really experience i recommend to anyone but i watched with my girlfriend and an her friends with too many right but and obviously i worked for almost the whole weekend as as well so you know not a lot of free time in maddie's worlds but somehow inbetween all of that i started watching shits creek sitcom sitcom all of it is on netflix i think now i'm not sure if there's a new season. That's not a net flicks yet. I haven't gotten far enough in it. No you recommended this to me. Kirk and it's the funny and it goes down so smooth and was much like phoenix right really hitting the spot for me a week that was otherwise filled with some very depressing news news and events and yet the premise of the show is a rich family loses all of their money. The dad bought the town shits creek week as a joke at one point in the past because it has a funny name the town doesn't really have any monetary value but since it's the only thing they own and since it has no value the banks or whoever rules that they're allowed to keep the town and so they go and live in this town which is tiny and it's just a fish out of water story where these four very very wealthy characters have to interact with all these other characters who lead normal lives and aren't wealthy and many feet race. The main characters are no longer now. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. They're just brats brats so it's kind of like an arrested development de vibe but but it's it's so much more chill than that like it's not like a gag a minute kind of a comedy show which i feel like i've gotten very used to it's kind of more of of an easy slow like jokes happening. They're funny but it's like a chill ride down a lane. I don't know i i'm really no. I i completely agree with that lake. That was something that took me a minute to adjust to. I do think that it gets stronger. Even as it goes it starts just as this really smooth show. Are you in season one. Still i'm in season two now. Okay so you're you're getting there. Then it starts to one thing is it has heart show actually has hardly the characters growth they begin to express emotions and that's when it to me at least really elevated from like oh. This is a fun show. I really liked this. I loved these characters now and i like watching them change but yeah the comic rhythm is such a different rhythm than specifically arrested development since that's the easiest sort of point of comparison yeah and it's so different it doesn't have that arrested development thing where there are sixteen jokes in thirty seconds span and and if you really are paying attention you can kind of get into them. You know the minutiae of all of this like this like densely woven joe tapestry. It's way more just like just funny. The people like kind of having conversations is almost like anti climax a lot of the jokes. Yes don't even really go anywhere or like the situation as opposed to like a joke. That's being told like it's raining. It's eugene levy and daniel levy and catherine o'hara. I don't remember the actress who plays the daughter. They're all four of them very very funny but they a lot of what's funny is they're just facial expressions like velvet back to something and they'll just hang on a reaction shot for like yanni second levies face he has one of the most amazing faces is saying to do especially if you watch him and i forget her name to who plays alexis yes sister the these little mannerisms. They'll do the a little pause or they'll like. They'll pull their lipson then like they do. These reaction faces gifts of him online. He is just amazing. Also stevie actually actress who who is kind of a a regular character on the show. She's so funny. She has an amazing. I i love so much this dysfunctional thing that i am seeing face. That's basically what the expressions is. Okay so this is happening. I love it. I'm processing and i'm just going to be here in this moment like she does a great job communicating that because that is consistently happening. They're communicating so yeah. It's partly just over time. It really grows on you. It's such a good show. I'm so glad you're watching it yeah. Yeah i'm really enjoying it and if if anybody else listening needs a show that has that kind of an energy. I definitely recommend this one so so what are you watching slash interacting with kirk well well. I watched we watched more of rana commercials for taking our time with it. It's still very entertaining. There's only some plot holes and things that are. I don't know there's a little bit of their. It's not the perfect the fourth of a show that barely held together right when it was on. It's pretty wild actually rob. Thomasson is her name diane ribero. I think is how you pronounce nassar last name that they're just still writing this show. They're still they still work together. This partnership that just stood the test of time is pretty cool. It like a lot of things about it though it's it's cool and i'll you you know maybe we'll do aspire castro something once. We all watch it on you talk about that more. The other thing is i've been reading so i mentioned this before but i've been reading kim stanley robinson's mars trilogy the scifi trilogy from ninety s. I believe i'm still in the second book which is green mars. They kind of go and order. There's red mars than green mars than blue mars red mars is about the sort of initial colonization on his asian of mars. This is kind of like well in the future but it's very hard scifi. Everything is extremely believable. The point where reading it you just think oh yeah okay well then. Why don't we just go colonize marks because as possible awesome like he's amazing. I'm reading a fictional book is very very good at taking an amazing amount of scientific knowledge. Yeah i mean it's just i can't even imagine the amount of research and science that went into reading this and turning it into something that is both impossible but also totally believable so red mars they land they colonize is the sort of i it's about the first one hundred people really though some of them die and some of them whatever and it's an epic i mean it spans generations but <hes> then <hes> green mars is the tara forming effort so they're kind of changing the planet to be habitable planet and it covers all the science of that. There's a lot about geology and these books and sometimes it gets a little too geology loving and i'm just like oh my god. I can't read you talking about like escarpment anymore. I don't even really know what kendall and it's helpful to be able to look words adds up. I'll just be like what is that lake specific geological term or that kind of mountain. I'm like okay. I guess i could picture it so there is a lot of that but really it's the character is too much of a spoiler to say that the characters from the first book are still around in the second book and live because of technology live quite a bit longer than they would otherwise so they get you get to have these point of view characters of people who've been there through still like generations of change on this planet and it is just great man. It's so good. I really just it's a saga. I'm surprised that it's not being made into a t._v. Show or something. I feel like there's gotta be some kind of. There's gotta be someone around their pitching this to like the network-sharing this this could be the sci-fi game of thrones feels a little bit actually like the expanse of listeners have recommended it. Has that same you know the expenses. I guess would be kind of what happens. Maybe in the third book but like well after mars has been colonized because mars is now fighting for independence against the earth and there's the people in the middle and that's kind of the it's got some similar political overtones and ideas and so but i think that mars came first and it feels like a very you know foundational piece of writing anyways. It's a super bowl book. This chile is great. If anyone's looking for like a really really thick summer read that's just really gnarly sci-fi with something you want to learn. A lot of geology have a tough time reading. This is for you. It's not that way right like it's. It's not exactly a breezy retreat but it is also. It isn't like it isn't the martian which i gather is like extremely nuts and bolts the book. I mean it's it's somewhere in between the two and it really once you get into the sweep of it. All it's very yeah and it sounds like you got some political intrigue stuff in the second yeah. There's fascinating like you know political stuff especially considering that it was written in the ninety s. It's a lot of it feels very relevant. I mean earth is in decline and things are going badly and it kind of reading and i'm like okay well. I can see that which i guess maybe that's as we were actually already worrying about that so that's true. It's continued so i guess yeah. It's definitely definitely more relevant than ever but yeah it's <hes> right well. Let's let's do a music. Pick picks very optimistic music this week so before the music this what's creating this we. I'm sorry before the music pick the strong songs for this week is a little bit different is animated tv theme songs and <hes> so that was super fun to do it wound up being a ton of work because it was almost like doing like four episodes of strong things i did kind of five so i did the simpsons theme the ducktail themed the rescue rangers theme which is so lit and so good our victim is no case to case to help call the theme from even gallium which enjoy angels thesis and tank from cowboy bebop which dear to my heart and i love that team so it's like all of those five episodes for some reason thought it would be shorter little bits about each one and instead it was so much work and it's like an hour and ten minute episode. It's an epic but it was really fun. If anyone thinks it'd be cool listen to my music. However is i've i've mentioned last week did sam cooke doing a lotta singing and like working on kind of mimicking singers with like a really nice mix in that mid range and this is a song by a singer named gabe dixon. Who have you ever heard of gabe dixon. Mattie thinks so actually yeah he's so he actually went to the university of miami he was a year ahead of me there and now he's like a recording artist in nashville. He's he's like one of the many many any seniors who are really really good and write great songs but aren't world-famous they just kind of tour and play with something i think he was actually playing keyboard with paul mccartney for awhile he's kind of like just touring around and doing the scenes this is from two thousand eight and it's actually it was featured in some ads and i think it was on parks and recreation the song and it's a really positive beautiful song and he seems really well on it and it also has just like happy and like more optimistic that i'm currently feeling but it makes me feel good to listen to the song so anyways gabe dixon his great check him out in his old ban. Dan gabe dixon band and this is all will be well by gabe dixon. The past two factories concede a lot shan and ma windows are disown fast state. Feel the love the d._a. Knows they will be even after all the promises. You've live from duty so it'll be you can ask time so yeah man. He's good kind of got that bruce hornsby vibe. He plays piano piano player at checkout his stuff that totally it sounds up my alley so good needs some happy music really go a trio of satisfying game satisfying show unsatisfying playlist even though sometimes hold and the finest just stressor in and the nice things that can make us feel good so yeah. He's worth checking out all right. That'll do it for for our run without jason schreier. He's going to be back next week but matty. This has been really fun. I've had a great time. It's been wonderful. I've been i've had a great every time just talking and doing things and having guests on if you like to get him converses here my wonderful colleagues dot com. It's been really nice. It's been cool and also thanks to our listeners who've written in shared they're talking about. That's been really cool to so yeah. I will see you and jason next well. Fi talk lit screen is an official podcast of cacao dot com. It's produced by jason schreier. Mattie myers me kirk hamilton. I ended mixed the podcast and also wrote performed our theme song and other music were a part of the fusion podcast network where modern and mo- feeds executive producer of audio. You can find us on popular. Podcast services like panoply n._p._r. One google play and apple podcasts and we hope that you'll leave us a review. If you like what you hear final episodes that could talk dot com slash split-screen email us at split-screen at cocoon dot com.
Control Is Great And Telltale Is A Zombie
"Welcome to kentucky split-screen. The only video game podcast plays entirely on the hidden tv channel in great falls. It's august twenty nine th two thousand nine hundred and we've got a ton of video game news to talk about. I i told jason mattie eddie about remedies new action game control which is cool weird and aesthetically bold as hell natty finished gears of war four and start him jason's playing j._r. p._g.'s on his switch. Then we hit the news of the week with the dubious revival of telltale games developers about-face regarding homophobic jokes in their game and the numerous woman recently come forward to tell stories of sexual misconduct by men in the video game industry because i was off topic talk of netflix is the family succession why the last man and billions stick around welcome back to the show. All you beautiful video game fans out there. We're so glad to join us as always my name is kirk hamilton and i am joined as ever by my two wonderful co hosts mattie myers hello matty. Hello kirk nice to see you and also jason insurer. Hello jason hello. Hello hello hello. Do you know what i'm doing after we record this no going on a jog now wow i'm going to meet a pediatrician. That's how you know. It's getting real when you have to start meaning pediatrician in preparation for your baby that it will arrive in the next three to four weeks five. I was just i was just reading something about how pediatricians apparently are feeling the strain because more and more adults votes are coming to see them because they're still on their parent's health so they're like still seeing childhood backyard. Wait it yeah. I thought they likes to chase after a certain age <music> this headline i didn't even read the article classes makes me think of <hes> what's forgetting sarah marshall where he goes to see his childhood doctor and he's like sitting on a fire our truck and he's a grown man yeah we'll so i keep thinking of this as the world's worst amazon delivery where they don't don't tell you when it's gonna arrive in the next three to four. It's just like anytime in the next three to four weeks. We would not accept that with anything else but babies just allowed. There just allowed to show up whenever they want wizardry. I mean unless you schedule essays area in which is a thing you can do in that circumstance. The amazon prime of they have to pay extra for services <hes> in other news. Do you wanna talk about some video games that we have been playing over the past the week 'cause like the summer doldrums or ending getting into the fall video game season starting to really heat up this week. I'm and why don't we actually start with one of the newest video games which kirk you have been playing. Tell us all about it. I have been playing control which is the game from remedy the makers of alan wake and max payne and i guess most recently quantum break and it's really really good so. That's the exciting anything to get here. Yeah it's cool. I know i saw her talking to gave it a positive review and they've seen it seems like it's getting positive reviews all around. I started to playing it yesterday even a ten ten ten three ten yeah. It's it's really neat. I can and give a kind of an overview of it. Just say what i think i guess but it's very in line with remedies sort of <hes> lineage which is neat to see. I really like remedy games. In general i loved max payne back. When that came out i think the two thousand or something and have played i think every single one of their games finish a couple of them so this game is written in by a guy named sam lake who is the guy who wrote max payne and he wrote i think he wrote all of remedies games and he's a really idiosyncratic writer and kind of he's. He's kind of kojima. Ask honestly. I think that everyone hold people hold hideo kojima up as this one of a kind visionary weirdo. Sam lake is a visionary weirdo late. Every one of his games has these things these weird alternate realities and t._v. Shows and all these threaded complex weird weaving narratives and control those to control control is maybe the strongest confident example of his entire aesthetic so i'll say that at the forefront let me tell you what the game is. Okay so it's a third person shooter to says the game like you're you play a woman. I forget her name and she sees jesse and she is in a building looking for her brother and and the building is the department the federal department of control which is a mysterious name and i. I'm guessing i'm going to learn a lot about what that means. I've already learned some things but i'll be very late on the spoilers because the mystery is a big part of this game and you go into a room and there's a bunch of like possessed soldiers and you fight them using a mix of this cool gun that you get and <hes> supernatural powers like telekinesis and can throw anything around and you can jump and fly around and all you know. I think it gets more and more crazy as you go. Quantum break had similar powers. I think some of them so it feels a little like quantum break. Though i didn't finish that game and unlike that game it does not have a live action tv show moving into it though so there is some live action stuff in it because all remedies games have these little live action things that happen so okay to give a sense of this game of what makes it it cool like the combat is fun. It's like well designed and cool but what really makes it work is the aesthetic and the vibe and the story. It's all so oh cool. The game overall feels like it feels like half life. It's very half life. It's all contained within this wild government facility that <hes> shifts in rearranges itself based on who knows what that's part of the mystery so you'll walk into a space that just seems impossible like the building itself is impossible to find unless must it wants you to find it. It's like this mystical space that connects to a kind of parallel universe that scott all of this paranormal stuff going on and and it feels a little bit like that t._v. Show legion in terms of the aesthetic like it's very seventy s brutal architecture mixed with like kind of tacky seventies zeno consoles and telephones and computers and a lot of i'm wondering what is truly real and what isn't and you're definitely in a pair and like this alternate dimensional dimensional space where rooms will rearrange as you like take back control of the walls will shift in the blocks will go away. They're all these funny signs around. That'll say move your way to your desk. Be sure that you're counting your steps and it's because the people who work in this building are working in a building that rearranges itself at all. They're working in hogwarts. You're saying it's i'm not no. It's not really hogwarts only because it's a little more like it feels a little bit like inside. Actually the that game <hes> from rama from a much mccalla the people who made limbo played at play dead and <hes> has a very inside to an inside. You're kind of going ever deeper into this weird facility ability where all this stuff is going on in running into increasingly horrifying strange things kind of has that vibe but it really feels like half life. It feels like a half-life successor sir and it has the vibe of sort of fringe and lost. There's all these videos that feel like oh that idea of building that only lets. Let's you only wants to be found. Only can be the island lost yeah and i mean there are research division like the federal bureau of control as a research division so a part of it is just that jesse is discovering what they were researching and it's all tied to these like paranormal objects of power. The power like the gun that you get is an object of power and it's you know gun like a kind of it's more. I think they've they reference. Milner is like an example or there's a floppy disk that you find signed and each one has like a weird. It's like actually outside of this reality. It has powers associated with it but in in our reality just looks like this everyday thing and then it gives you superpower's <hes> so it's a part ki ki kind of yeah. It's there are definitely like you can you could actually take the mythology of harry potter any any other sort of pop requirement yet but that's another thing. I've been thinking about this. Is your telekinesis like casting akio on things and you're saying you know yelling out spelling like harry potter okay. This really really has nothing in common with harry potter. I'm going to be playing at this weekend looking for ways to look for that post on dot because actually actually very tired so so it's great. I'm really into it. I don't think it's super long <music>. I'm definitely gonna play the whole thing like i said i love all of these games and i'm gonna finish this one. <hes> couple other quick thoughts one or that is beautiful beautiful looking like the art art direction and the aesthetic are out of control. It has oh man. It does tweeted this. Does these fonts every time you go into area. It's this theory in vogue. I think the rousseau's do the recent avengers movies and that that show minehunter actually does it where there's a huge bold text in white and it just shows up when they leave but it is it is shockingly awesome. Every time that happens in the game the sound design that accompanies it is so cool the sound of the games amazing thing that makes me think of inside <hes> and also i'm playing on p._c. And this is one of those games that has like for the invidia artifacts ship they've built all this retracing stuff into it and i'm getting the thing with ray tracing like it's a very complicated technology that can apply a lot of things but the ray tracing in this game is used to make the physics and the lights and the smoke the debris blowing the shit out of room and everything is is papers flying everywhere and dust in the light is going through the dust and things are reflecting explosions. If you turn it on and and i can i can. It runs pretty well for me if i turn on the dynamic resolution anyway. It's crazy awesome looking like just to look at it. It's not just that that you know the technology's impressive. It's also artistically beautiful so it's if nothing else like the story is really cool. I'm drawn invite them history. It's fun to play but it is just amazing looking and that alone is really really cool so it's running while for you like i think this is definitely one of those things where if you wanted to turn turn on full resolution and jack everything up. It's going to be a system pusher for years. It's one of those games that i think was designed as a showcase for the technology but with schools that doesn't feel like one of those tech demo games where that's the main draw. It's just that's also a cool thing about it is that it looks cool. Makes you think wow my computer can do cool shit so so yeah great time with it so far all right well okay yeah. I'm gonna i'll probably start it tonight or tomorrow so i'll be expecting here to expect some texts for me. Being like oh enthrall is looking talk to figure out the mystery. Oh i should mention i mean this is so that because remedy game their lease like t._v. Shows you can watch with live actors in them. There's a puppet show their puppets like talk about and they're really weird and so well creative and well-directed just like nights springs in alan. Wake is a good example. There was this whole t._v. Show and alan wake that you could wash they would do whole episodes of it and it was kind of making fun of the twilight zone. This is kind of like that and there are all these like recordings an extra things you can find that flesh out the world and it's all very mysterious and really well done dope yeah. I've never actually played remedy game. I think so they're all good. I always wanted to play on week but just never got around around two and i think i even bought it but like it's one of those games. That's on my shelf has never been opened. Just this feels at least so far like maybe this is the closest thing yet to like the idealized version of sam laken their vision so raby good place to start very cool so i will probably matt <hes>. I haven't been playing. I don't have a ton talk about <hes> because i haven't had a ton of time to play games of the week but i haven't played a couple of things to talk about first of all. I've been playing final fantasy eight remastered remastered which i believe is embargoed for monday so i can't really get into it and it doesn't say it came out like twenty years ago. You know that weird thing embargoed man spoiling thing you have to be like well the main character i can't talk come out but he might have a sword across the guy anyway the only thing i wanted to mention about that is that like so speaking in general terms since i am under embargo. Oh i think that every single video game needs a fast forward button but especially r._p._g.'s need a fast forward button so because it just makes everything so much better and then in contrast i've been playing the switch demo for dragon quest eleven which is basically like the epitome of a bloated view chief that takes forever and a four a billion hours long and so i played that i talked about on the show last year when i was playing on p._s. Four and i think i played the first half of the game. Basically which is like forty hours is it's just the first half and didn't love it liked it but didn't love it. I wound up thinking that it was too easy and kinda grind d. and <hes> didn't it didn't love it. I guess easy and grind dear kind of at odds with one another but no it was easy and the hat and everything took too long. Everything felt very tedious. I i feel like grind doesn't necessarily imply difficulty it in place tedium some yeah well. I think of grind boring grinding is like you need to grind levels to get passes boss because it's too hard otherwise that's hard is like what is it doesn't do any damage to this thing because i need to repeat one hundred things things but in order to do the numbers like that's not even really difficulty right. That's <hes> so i wanted to give us another chance. Switch for a variety of reasons but <hes> <hes> there are a whole bunch of new features that ads like you can play the whole game in two d mode although you actually can't do that in the demo so i'm probably going to sit on that for a while until i get the actual game of chicken. Sudi sudi mode is like an old school dragon. Quest games like looks like a super nintendo game the whole time and that's all. It's just made a two d. version of the entire while this is where i remember thinking it was pretty pretty funny also versions yeah it's wild. They also fixed well so in japan they had actually released east that as the three d. s. version where like one screen was altuve graphics and the other three so it was really interesting and then so they also fixed the the music the music in the original version of the game was all midi and sounded terrible and here they actually like orchestra versions that sound yeah yeah. I remember someone telling us. There was a mod that you could do that. You see see that's nice that they changed that. I remember you complaining about that. Yeah so the question is am i actually going to play through this again just to to get like it would take so long just to get to the parts where <hes> to the part where i left off last year when i played it but i do want to see how it ends so i'm not sure <hes> it turns out that i will wind up having a baby in one hand and my switch on the other hand for a lot of time in the near future so maybe i'll do it then but but the point that i was going to make make the grand poincare is that dragons levin has like a faster speed in battle mode which is helpful but it doesn't have a proper fast forward mode and and i really wish it did it would make it so much better if i could just click the button and suddenly everything moves at super speeds. I can just slip through areas and run around the world. Send it just like it would make things so much better for those of us. Who wanna play a lot of stuff and have lost a lot of patients with age for the tedium that often comes along with jared p._g.'s and they just make you appreciate game so much more so that's my my thesis fast-forward modes many what are you playing okay so i bake years four for and i also started playing fire emblem three houses heard so it has done a weird thing to my brain brain where i've now intrinsically associated these games with one another because i played cures were four which is like a roughly ten our campaign and i've played maybe ten or eleven hours of firemen three houses so so like that's just twenty hours brain is spent in the past seven days on these two extremely different games but mostly i guess i'll talk about four as refracted through through my broken fire emblem brain. I'll try to do that conversation. That is what i want. That is what i actually want. Gears of were are to be and that is not the game is so gears of war one through three. I talked about last week. I would say three as around where you finally have gotten to know the characters enough that you care about what happens to them and their deaths are meaningful and dramatic and you you basically give a shit to a level that you didn't use of where one which is just corny macho silliness but they've had to start over again with this new trio because now marcus fenix is older. He's middle aged. He has a son that game is about his son and so there's a new set of youngsters that you're following through the game and you don't know any of them and i spent pretty much all of gears of war for you're wondering why i don't like them and being like. Did i feel this way about marcus fenix in the gang war one i think probably i did but i don't know why i felt because it was a thousand years ago but i just couldn't get myself to like these characters. They seemed really dry and flat j._d. Phoenix seems like he'd never wants to be there or do anything he complaints about every single thing that happens game even by the end of the game. There's like this dramatic moment where of course previous older characters from the prior game show up up and help you save the day with some huge robots that you get in. It's amazing. It's very satisfying but like even in that final battle in j._d. Getting the robot he's mad about it and he's like. I can't believe you guys god. You're so later like whatever he says. I was just like you. You're still mad about this. Like how is this even possible. I don't know it's it's so oh deeply irritating and i kept soundly every doctor to me no because i feel like fire emblem the characters complain because they're teenagers but there's so much more endearing and funny than any of the characters cures four four like i will at least laugh at them or laugh with them if they're complaining in eighteen age way the writing is pretty sharpen helps me get to know everyone fairly quickly. I could tell pretty early on what what dimitri and edel garden clods deal l. was in which of them i would wanna hang out with the most. I went golden deer for my first route. It seems logical wicked good. I'm enjoying it and i feel like the game like i see what you're saying jason about how the medieval writing is it can be clawing at times but i feel like the game does a pretty good job of establishing what kind of person each of the characters are are fairly early on when you meet them and then they just continue to deepen that i mean i'm only like ten hours in but i've already seen several support conversations and i feel like by now. I understand who everyone is yet. I've played all of gears of war for i have beaten it and it wasn't until the credits that i was like oh yeah okay this character. She's kind of interesting. It's not what linda like the very end of the game that you even feel like any of it mattered and even by then i was like did it matter so i didn't know playing a fire emblem is interesting in that regard because i've been playing a little bit of this new game plus as the blue lions and i'm seeing a lot of the c. level support conversations between those kids that i know saw aw when i played golden deer and it's interesting because a lot of the conversations are very pointy and kind of negative interactions at first because they're setting coming up how the relationship is going to grow and become more meaningful over the course of the game and by the time you get to their level support conversation you know they've they're referencing back to things that happened during the sea-level support if you can remember all those hours ago. It's actually really cool like they're they're. It's like a little bit obvious even right. It's very structured to have this arc in each relationship relationship but it is really satisfying when you see it resolved by the end and it kind of sounds like gears of war like typically history with do that but it sounds like you kind of doesn't it's what you want out of any game game right like you thought dialogue peppered in over all the combat that you're doing and you want the dialogue to deepen the relationships between the characters and tell you a story in between queen you kicking butt and taking names like that's all i really want a video game to do and i want it to be clever and funny and that is something fire is doing and i hope gears five does does it. I know that this game fares in is absurd but it's what i want in a video game and i mean i imagine if the writers of gears who i guess we should say as a friend of curcumin of me. I'm sorry gamer yeah. Here's here's five is he yeah he did. He read the okay fair enough. I know he did for but what i was going to say. Is that if they were given support conversations which take the opportunity to just like flex your raining muscle because that's all it is a lot of games have the luxury or interest in presenting sending side conversations. Just it's why people always tell the joke about how they want every game to be a dating sim april fool's day joke is because every game actually deserves to have have support conversations between ovid's characters and it's like the thing every writer secretly wants to be writing in fire emblem just goes ahead and does that even though it's a tactics game yeah a lot of g._o._p. Oh jeez have some sort of like dragon. Quest eleven has a party chat option and at any point in the game you can open up your menu and head party chat and your party will have a conversation and oftentimes. It's just like oh. What should we do next okay. This is where we're supposed to be going right now but sometimes they give you the opportunity to like. Let let the let the conversations let their freak flags fly. There are a lot of things that jerry b._g.'s details games. I'll have these skits these optional skits where the characters will display their personalities and chat that and yeah there are a lot of different like methods and experiments but they've always been for r._p._g. Specifically therapy it just doesn't feel like other parties interested. That's my argument. Yeah i would think shooter. I guess the problem is that like their games are so expensive already that like calving budget for that and like they wouldn't be able to do it in a way the firearm loom does it where it's like all lo fi and low budget and a couple of different cut scenes that don't require reporter like what are you really looking for in your ten hour call of duty or gears of war campaign or whatever it may be a. I don't know that everyone is looking for the same things in those campaigns that i am but whatever yeah i mean it's it's a little different. Tom'll definitely tell he's at least told me right. I think we had him on the show to tell us about all the compromises you have to make when you're young game like this help make the writer we'll do something. Isn't that yeah i understand but there's a thing with i mean there is version of that that is more and more prevalent in in aaa games. This is the thing that naughty dog dozen their games where optional dialogue prompts will come up when a character you know your your partner character elian the last of us will go look at something and there's a triangle overhead and you press it and you get a little bit more conversation and that can be nice like it's not as systematize as it is in a persona or in a you know in the p._g. Where you get like a vignette with conversation but if people are building it in because i think everyone has kind of realize there are a lot of writers have realized that this is a good way to make you care about these characters. Ask asks longside. You kinda need to care about them. If you want to beat the frigging game and care about what happens it it definitely helps. I'm looking at the five wikipedia p._d. Entry and remains awadhi is composing the music for this game of thrones guy. I don't know if he's ever done a videotape cool cool. That makes me more excited to play that game that that is cool okay. So why don't we take a break unless you had more firearms looms thoughts. I talk more about it next week because i'm going to keep playing it all right. Why don't we take a quick break and then we'll get into some news of the week. Uh and we are back kirk manny. Let's talk about some news. Shall we starting with the absolutely absurd news that hit this morning. We're recording on wednesday. The senate on wednesday morning that telltale is coming back except except the the way to frame this would be more like a total is coming back the way that all of those people came back on the walking dead and attacking claratyne not really coming back what happened happened was <hes> these two people <hes> who had nothing to do with telltale and do not work a tell tale and backgrounds and completely different companies decided onto by the brand telltale games and they did this over the course of the past year since the company shut down <hes> and today they announced that they had secured the rights to start a new telltale games then it's going to be in malibu california that's close to los angeles as opposed to san rafael in the bay area up north swear original telltale was and they have hired. I believe i heard that they hired a few producers. From telltale or people people four four people i believe from telltale who had actually stayed on to like help make the asset transfer and stuff like that and they also said that some workers from the original telltale games we'll be offered freelance roles will with full time positions possible in the future. They said they they plan to resell some of the old telltale games james and make new new telltale games <hes> so a lot of people saw this and get excited. There were headlines this morning. Being tell tales back till tiles back. <hes> people got excited at the thought of like a wolf among us sequel among other things because that's one of the things that everybody wants but then it started to john people how many red flags there were here including the fact that most of the four hundred staff that were at telltale when it shuts down have gotten other jobs elsewhere <hes> and i imagine that if i was laid off a year ago and still haven't found a job or was looking for a new opportunity or something and someone was like well we can hire you freelance here this new tale alltel pissed as hell and just like scanning through twitter and checking out people's reactions who the reactions from people who actually worked. It's al tell people well are extremely upset. People do not seem to be pleased about this came as a shock to a lot of people and yeah. It's just like it. It feels to me like that sort of weird like i guess it's it's just the vampiric capitalism nature of like buying up a label able and being like look. This is the label that you love now. It's over here and we've seen that before in the games industry with like atari which getting brought back to life under different owners owners and t h q now is like t h q nordic even though it has nothing to do with the old t. h. Q. and it has all kinds of nonsense and a good reminder that even the we think of something is like a telltale game. It's actually a game by made by all of the people and it's hard to like keep track and like actually pay attention to the names because so much effort and like so hard to actually remember who's involved with what but that is a way if you want to really know who's making your games. That's so you need to look at because it became comes out and it's like a telltale game in the future. We have no idea how much involvement that people actually worked at. I'll tell on the games that people love had with this new stuff so kirk manny. What do you guys think of all of this. I mean i think pretty much everything. I think you pretty much set it all eh tally of my reaction pretty much so good job. I'd say he summed it all up. Franken weird it and who knows and people make games. I've always i've always struggled with this question and it's something i've thought a lot about as i wrote my first book and i'm reading. This new book is like when you're writing about people who make games. It's not it's it's very difficult to tell a story and create compelling characters out of a a dozen people or a hundred people are hundreds of people. It's impossible you can't do that. You need to focus on a few and times we and for very good reasons but i'm saying thing we including myself and everybody in the press we like to focus on the director level people the people with the creation you did it yourself just a few minutes ago with talking talking about sam lake kirk and they're very good reasons that we do this but it also winds up either putting it winds up putting a lot of power in the hands of those people or in the brand's for like oh a remedy remedy game and it's it's i mean there's no. I can't think of another way to do it because it's not like. There's a good shorthand or like convenient way of saying saying like this is made by this person this person this person this person to look at the remedy example that you cited. I'm very i'm trying to be very clear to say sam sam lake and everyone at remmy games. Whenever never i'm talking about their legacy and i'm talking about the writing. I'm talking about his legacy as a writer because he's the guy who writes the games and you have to just say and everyone at remedy games and then hope you have to just trust the people understand because some amount of reducing and flattening has to happen in order to have a conversation. You're just going to list every single person you're talking about every time <hes> <hes> <hes> and that's totally that goes across the internet the internet is is a great flat near right like it it reduces things and makes them smaller and we all do that naturally anyways so the internet kind of like in you kind of enhances our tendency to do that. <hes> i think a lot about heart for example. I did a strong about the band heart heart went through many different sprint personnel and roger fisher their lead guitar player. He's great guitar. Player came up with that barracuda guitar line really really good wasn't in the band. After on i think think how falling out with the wilson sisters and there's all this discussion about like was this a heart song or was that a heart song you know is the heart from the eighties heart or not and that happens with bands all the time do like. I love this band and i didn't. I liked them in their original setup. I like them when they hire you know in the red hot chili peppers got rid of john shanty and then what's his name from jane's addiction came aiman played with them like that sucks they were terrible but then so there's always a flattening and a brain that goes on in every everywhere because they're kind of asked to be and it's really just on us individually understand the particulars in the specific people involved yeah but it's a little easier with bands of them. They're like four to six people generally but it's like one hundred people so it's like absolute totally when the drummer leaves by the drummer you mean like one hundred people who were laid off in this well yeah good. Parallel music is so much easier to understand but it's not of course i the same thing yeah and well. I also think that the video game industry has just embraced opacity for so long and just been so deliberately the secret of and put up this big veil and tried to anonymous devs <hes> which is like to the big companies benefits. It's to these new executives benefits that nobody knows like specific or that. A lot of people don't know specific people who work to tell tale and they'll just see telltale and be like oh my god do wolf among us that makes me happy and and i think that will it's it's unlikely that will work out very well unless they wind up making games that are really good but like what what usually it happens with cases like this is that the company either just never actually releases anything or releasing something. That's like a shell of what it used to be. I think there is like <hes>. I think it was is one company. Was it atari. Some company tried to do like an alone in the dark revival. That was just as complete disaster. There have been sort of underrated that i in the dark assertive cool like it's not new problems yeah the like two thousand and eight one that was that was made by atari right and somebody else is sort of interesting <hes>. It's you know it's more interesting than you. You think it's a very flawed game interestingly fair enough but i think my points. I don't know what you're saying anyway. Let's move on <hes> so this thing all right so this is a little tricky because <hes> i don't want to get too specific on this stuff because a lot of stories like actively reporting on a lot of this as as we speak and be it'd be responsible for us to talk about some of the specifics with out having reach out to parties involved but i will say that over the past few days days since monday night of this week there have been a whole lot of accusations in the media ministry a lot of abuse accusations against men. I think think it's all been men imma games industry people. It's a variety of different things that are sexual misconduct stuff about people being abusive or controlling ohlinger manipulative and all sorts of different ways and i just i felt like we had to bring this up. Even though i don't think we can really get into specifics for all the reasons i mentioned but it's worth noting that there appears to be something in the air and that in general feels like a good thing it feels like people are feeling more. It feels feels like a good thing that people are feeling more comfortable talking about this stuff and going open with the stuff was just something that i know. A lot of people have been asking remember back in back when the harvey weinstein seen firsthand and like the metoo movement was coming out <hes> i remember seeing headlines that were like when we'll video games have it's me too movement and people were just waiting for like p the names to drop often people to be like look this shitty this person did this thing <hes> and it never really seemed to happen despite a few stories and obviously documents around a few stories both about company cultures and individual people who've done pretty horrible things are are said to have done pretty horrible things but this really really feels like something is in the air <hes>. Have you guys seen all this stuff well. It's us fries. I've seen it. I guess i would echo what jason said that people should know that reporting stories like that take time and i'm sure there are people who are wondering when the stories will come but it's really hard to report out stories like this so i hope people will be patient. Hey sean if they don't already have stories up by the time you listen to this. It's certainly something we've seen. I'll say that yeah yeah. I've seen these stories too and i've just been reading them and sort of bearing witness. I see that as a kind of an important responsibility just they're really horrible. Stories and i believe the women who are telling them and i'm also not a reporter and you know not. I'm not working on stories about it but just can kind of. I don't know like that to me is the most important thing people can do or at least a lot of our listeners or is unimportant thing that our our listeners can do is just read the stories because they all seem pretty true to me so yeah. That's where i met on it <hes> yeah it's it's it's been it's been quite something and <hes> yeah. I think it's in general it's good to have a lot of this stuff out in the open. I think what's to say saying disinfectant. Dan sunlight is the best disinfectant yeah you know. I think that the <hes> there's there's a there's a sense that if more and more people talk about this kind of thing like if more women feel empowered to talk about it it will maybe make it less okay for people to do it in the future because i don't know i look at this and think what is the thing that can make people stop behaving this way like make men stop thinking that they can treat whatever subordinate employees are whoever like in this terrible way and clearly the that the metoo movement in general the fact that enough people feel emboldened to speak out makes it so there is now a climate where it's not okay hit act that way because if someone likes act that way or or does that kind of thing they will now think oh. This is not something that i can just like cover up forever or you know use my position position of power to hide now. There can look at all of these examples of times of this has come out and either. I need to stop doing this or you know it's gonna come out and they need to to not do it and that seems good like if nothing else comes from a whole lot of people coming on and telling stories like this. That seems like an actual concrete. Positive live thing that could happen so i'm hopeful about that. Yeah i think that's true but also it's not like can't be the only method because so many people who are abusive and in positions of power have figured out ways to manipulate the people around them and get supporters around them and like make you feel like so okay so one of just a ah. I'll speak and kind of vague terms here. I don't wanna get into specifics but like one of the stories that i had heard about came out this week. There was a person who i'd been looking into a couple of years ago and that's came out this week and i think one of the reasons that it was kept hidden for so long or not not spoken about publicly for so long and not come out in reporting on any websites or through people's accounts on twitter mania on twitter social media. Whatever else is because this person person had done a really good job of making people feel threatened if a spoke and making feel like there would be legal repercussions and social repercussions and professional national repercussions <hes> to them to their companies to their worlds and like we've seen cases where people come out and say things and then nothing really happens so so it's a really tough. One that i think is like i mean i am not qualified banding means to sit here and offer solutions but it's like so systemic that it just needs a total total dismantling to be able to stop this dismantle entire systems to be able to satisfy stuff yeah sure but easier said than done no oh right yeah i just i don't. I wish i had more answers yeah and i don't mean to. I don't mean to sound overly optimistic or anything but i think like you know. This is a huge culture. Why no no no no. I think i think what you said is one hundred percent right. I just don't think it can be the only way like there has to be there. They're just have to be more things that everybody can do and it's so it's like the project of talking about everything that's happening right now and the way that we communicate about these stories in the away the stories are told and the outcome that we hope that they'll have like it's so i mean it's really i have yeah. I don't think anybody really has solid answers on it. It's kind of a mess and i there's a there's a feeling that our whole culture needs to change and pretty much. That's what i think. When i hear these stories yeah like how does that even begin that and then i think there's also this natural sense that all humans have where you want to believe people can be redeemed and then if they can't be or if they repeatedly do something horrible and you hear about it again it just it always really shocks me when i hear about situations like that because you want to believe leave the best and someone especially if you hear something like this about someone you like or someone who is very well connected or very talented. I think it's really difficult for people to here. Accounts like this and not be like there must be some mistake. I and i think that after me too and the weinstein case that conversation has changed changed in some ways that i've seen that have been pretty interesting where people are starting to be like well. Maybe we should reframe how we automatically react to that and that's the main change i've seen it hasn't been just a total sea change in how everyone reacts to every time a sexual misconduct allegation comes forward but it's more likely in my eyes to seeing seeing people anecdotally responding in a different way than i used to see them respond even ten years ago and that's been cool for me to see just the fact that people don't automatically disbelieve as often as i used to see and they're more likely to be like well wait. Maybe this is true. Maybe it's not i'm i'm going to try and hear this out and even that is a pretty valuable valuable change to me. I mean each of those little things that feels. Maybe a little different or could be different like every one of those like a tiny little thing moving toward the kind of cultural change yeah yeah and it's something anyways <hes> yeah man. The thing that really just infuriates me so much about this stuff is when it's the whole lake i am in a position of power over you professionally and i'm gonna dangle that as an attempt to get you to do things for me sexually like the few things bother other me more than a few things pissed me off more than like someone being like oh and i remember back when the nick robinson stuff came out the a few months ago or last year and and that was one of the things he was said to have done by people who are accusing him was that like like hold hold his position like promise promise opportunities to people in exchange range for sexual favors and that sort of stuff is just like so beyond the pale unacceptable i i just can't i can't even understand i can't even fathom what would go on and someone inside of someone's head to make them think that would be okay and your i mean i think reporting on the stuff and talking about it and and just making it <unk> as open as possible and like getting getting it all out there is is really really helpful and i'm glad that it is it is happening. <hes> yeah me too. It's important that hard reporting to do but i'm glad it's happening yeah. It's really hard reporting to do because as a reporter it's like as a human being when you hear someone opened their heart right and just like tell their story you wanna believe them and as a reporter you can believe them but believing someone doesn't mean being able to print what they're saying because the take it to your legal team and then they're gonna ask these questions and you have to circle back and be like okay it. It's tough. I mean it's and it's an important distinction is an important distinction for people to understand. There is is a very big difference between how ordinary civilian takes in this kind of thing and how a reporter has to approach it yeah and yeah i mean i can i having just worked on a pretty big story involving someone a couple of months ago who said that he was sexually groped and sexually assaulted by jeronimo barrera who is a v._p. Rockstar games on the top guys are games. I mean it was just like a. I mean first of all it was quite a process like quite harrowing process going through that because talking to a lot of different people about it and the actions was really hard in horrible to have to go through and i can't even imagine how those people must've add like <hes>. It's unimaginable israel me but the point is that like you can't just listen to someone as a reporter. You can't just be like okay. This person is telling me that story and just print it. You have to try to talk to as many people as possible who might have been told about it who might have been involved in some way you might have seen something might have you might have some sort of insight and and then of course you also have to talk to the person who's being accused and that is also essential to give them an opportunity to tell you their perspective and tell you their side and offer something something if they want that contradicts facts are offers. New facts are offers a new side of the story. It's just essential to hear from. Everybody involved in cases like this and yeah there's a lot of reporting complication that goes into getting all this stuff out there so yeah this will certainly we'll have to see if this keeps exploding and we'll have to see like the repercussions and if it winds up leading to some serious consequences for anyone yell we'll see we'll see how and one more news item. This might be the most ridiculous story of week more ridiculous than telltale even <hes> okay okay so there is this game called ion fury. Have you guys heard of this game. I ended heard of this in context couple stories about it so i've heard of this game now. Okay i heard of it because people were talking about this but before okay so here's this fat apparently it's good bye looks cool so this is like an old school shooter later like duke nukem three d style like even published by three. D. rounds the people who've been listening so it's made by. I said the lead developer of the studio it turns out is this guy who uses the word s j ws and ironically which i think is all you need to save one. That's enough characteristic and so last week someone unreset era posted that they discovered all of these discord transcripts and basically we like some of the developers making gay jokes like weird comments about transpeople and then also it turned out that emit game. There were two different gay jokes and i'll tell you exactly what they are one. Is that like there's a hidden area. Ima game where the word fag bag appears <hes>. It's like. I think it's it's like a secret area. In the end that you can only access in a certain way and then the other is that there are shampoo bottles that instead of ole the shampoo brin say okay and that's it. That's that's the joke so here's what happened. I there was the controversy. People were like what the hell is going on. Then the developer and the publisher last week said that okay we're going to remove this stuff. We apologize for all these comments that are developers made in response to that discord chat chat logs that people had posted as well. They apologized for those this why apologize for those and they remove the they said we're removing the two things <hes> there was a tweet from void point saying like okay hey. This isn't the hill we wanna die on something like that. Then on monday they changed their minds and they said you know what we're not gonna practice censorship and so they said they are going to remove the fag secret area because that apparently was an accident. It wasn't supposed to be in there in the first place but they are going to leave in there. Oh gay shampoo and here is a quote from richard. Go bail who is the lead developer on iron fury and likes criticizing s._j. Ws here's his quote. We will absolutely not be censoring. I inferior any of our other games. Now are in the future including but not limited to by removing gags such as gaming's most controversial facial official wash only funny. I guess i mean so imagine imagine the thought process of someone who's like you know what i'm gonna fight for censorship this ship. We have our own shampoo up completely. Imagine the thought process right. I unfortunately can't do but it's not a fun imagining learning. I've been listening to g tolentino give interviews and i haven't read her book yet but this is the thing that she writes about in her book and she's a very articulate thinker about this but there's this idea that that she has that i think is super spot on that the internet amplifies opposition and has done complicated things to opposition and the thing thing is basically that you can take opposition and turn it into a huge win for you like a lot of the most successful people on the internet are very good at taking taking opposition and then turning into power for them right. Obviously our president is like the prime example of this. He's very good at it but a lot of people are these people she gave in just in this interview as listening i need to she's like okay like right now by the just for people who know this is to know this tolentino used to work at jessica at the new yorker writer. She wrote a whole thing about the internet. It's a book called trick mirror. That is apparently great and i haven't read it but i want to so that's the context for this and she was saying oh like right now. There's this woman who is like instagram influence or and she's coming after me like she's like writing. She's like kind of trolling me and like attacking me online and she pointed out jesus said this like what i could do right now that would be the best for me would be to take what she's saying like. I've just been ignoring her but to take her attacks and like make a thing of it. You know like write a response to it and like show this person who's like up opposing me who's coming at me to the world and then all these people would rally around me and it would get me all this attention and to be really great for my brand and i you know all these people were like oh you're right. She's terrible and then like her. Fans would be like oh no like g._e. Terrible and it'd be a whole thing and i would really great and i would come out on top like i do well for me but i don't wanna do that even though the internet everything about it and like actually beyond the internet like our whole culture like rewards that right which i thought was like a super interesting observation and obviously something i'm still processing and thinking about but this is just an example all of that and there's so much of that in games discourse and everywhere where the opposition to the thing like yeah it's a shitty gay joke and a lot of people pointed that out and now they can say all right we can like apologize and just take it out and that's the right thing to do or we could say yeah. You know what fuck you like. We're leaving it in and then you get all these people coming to your site. It's a whole big thing. They did okay so wait so so they did do that. They did both of those. I think it'd be do the right thing and then they changed their minds so i got to mention that the reason they change your mind is because or presumably one of the things that happened between them announcing the apology and removal them changing their mind is a giants team review bomb tom from people who are inclined to be the anti censorship crash there. You go like that review. Bomb is indicating the flip side of the thing. I'm talking about like they're saying. We're with you. If you just stand up to these people if you bring your opposition in center and like make it being part of your narrative like will reward you for it and then they did and that's like the specifics so this i think are less important than that bigger picture thing which is like a whole culture wide issue that everyone is dealing with and that's kind of my thought on that. It's not it's <hes> you are totally right and that is a very smart and really really tolentino her on the book like i'm gonna read it so this opposition stuff. The south of that opposition is an essay in her book. Yeah it's one of the like core or something. She's one of course no. It's in the book. The book is a series of and it's like a one of the core tenets. Yeah that's a very smart and very cogent point and yeah absolutely i mean he certainly played late into the calculation. It actually sort of reminds me and obviously this isn't as heinous heinous at all but it reminds me of the dark developers the the other day being like making big thing about how they weren't going to be on the epic store and there's nothing wrong with with with dark developers. They didn't do anything wrong at all but got it was a wise a shrewd p._r. Move to recognize that like you can use this opposition to your advantage and very very smart and cogent points at all in just from yeah from g._m. Very smitten kitchen points <hes> yeah. I'm trying to think so so that is the smarter broader point but the thing that i still find so hilarious is the particulars of the talk. So part of me feels like back. When i hear a comedian be like i defend the right to make jokes about whatever i want that is something i feel conflicted about and have a lot of different thoughts about and there are a lot of conversations to be having nuances to be had about like punching up versus benching down and if something is funny but as punching down but it's also punching down is that okay how okay is it who is who gets to say okay etcetera etcetera lots of complicated questions there but what if something is so dumb and inane and that it can't even be called a joke. It's like the type of thing that like a twelve year old with like scrabble in their notebook scribbling their notebook and class and like pass along to all their friends and be like okay okay. Okay okay shampoo well so is very guy so there's true but it also was genuinely about the bigger picture point for for for this particular guy whose name i'm forgetting now but he was in the discord chats and one of the things richard go bale bale one of the things he talked about with his his colleagues in those chats was the idea of being against cancel culture which we've sort of obliquely referred to our previous talk. Topic is the idea that something something could happen online and then everybody could get really mad at you and try to get you fired like that was actually one of the topics they talked about the discord just sort of interesting given those exact discords where what was leaked and that is precisely what people tried to do so. I think that there is a part of him that perhaps i don't know 'cause he wouldn't tell us this but perhaps feels like he is truly making a point here and like it's not just a matter of people saying hey like just calling something gay as a joke doc isn't funnier cool and we'd rather not see this in your game. It's instead being refracted and reinterpreted as like how dare you ask me to change inch anything at all because you don't have a right to do this. It's who i am and it isn't really about what the joke is. Of course the joke is incredibly dominant unfunny and it's barely even a joke but i don't think that's what it's really about and that's depressing because then it means that it's almost impossible to make this argument for the reasons that kirk spelled route via tolentino which is just you can't argue with these people because it becomes a bigger picture argument where they're like. This is about freedom of speech. This is about whatever and you're like. No actually i'm just trying to tell you. The joke is dumb and we're really just talking about that but somehow this became like some sort of weird right. I i mean it's all it's all a big part of the culture which even goes beyond me opposition question an in game specifically. It's about the question of and gamer gate was was compounded partially on this question of progressive criticism and is that censorship and there's so many people out there who believe that chris is censorship and don't seem understand that saying hey maybe games should have fewer like ridiculous. Objectifications of women is not the same as saying i want to put i'd like giant black bars over the tits in this game like it's it's just such a such a fundamental misunderstanding at this enter. It's funny. I feel like like we should all read g._s. Book and then come back to these questions because a lot of these questions are added to some of the stuff too with like the idea that criticism is action and the wave in an in. She's very careful about how she phrases. This and i don't want you know i don't even know how i feel about it but the idea that criticism even does anything at all and so many people i believe that it does and so then on the left and the progressive circles you get people being like pointing out that this thing is sexist is the most important thing i can do right now and sort of it is worth being like is is it and also like is pointing it out just like leading escalating. This thing were then people who wanna do sex's things being like you're very important. Criticism is so so dangerous to me. Look how under threat. I am and it's like the whole thing. Are you even under threat yeah right and so this is i think we should i'll read <hes> trick mirror tolentino book and then returned and have sex and talking about i actually would be really cool thing for us all because that'd be really fun i would love to it has so much bearing bearing on so many of the things we talk about on this show speaking of reading thing. Why don't we take another break and then get into some off topic shots. Uh and we are back all right kurkin mattie. Let's talk about some off topic stuff. I will go first just because matty and ivan texting for the best week about billions and i love it. It's gotten so frigging good unlike in the middle of season four and say in the specifics because i think kirk you and everyone else that there should watch. I keep having like not text you any spoilers because i keep knowing what you're about to get to. You and it's just the oh worse so i got up to. I just got off to a very pivotal part which is chuck's check speech. The middle season is in for a great. It's still good yeah it is i would say season one when when we started it was like okay. This is like okay. It's kind of ridiculous. It's absurd but it's turned into such a fantastic television show starting with like that one section in season two that really sleek set it all going and was just like holy shit. This show is amazing so yeah <hes>. I've also been billions. Everybody should go watch. I also blazed through through. I've been rereading the veronica mars books because we've been on such a veronica mars kick and highly highly recommend them very entertaining. They are both both books are like like such easy reads and feel like you're watching a couple episodes of the show because each chapter's like like they're paid shirts basically they're written like classic thrillers like you like it or something yeah exactly but with the wit and charm of veronica all her buds and like every chapter ends some sort of cliffhanger or ridiculous twist or something like that and they're just incredibly well done and well written and just a lot of fun so highly recommend most anyone who is zinta veronica mars. I just finished reading the first one and we'll probably reread the second one shortly <hes> so that's for me. I'm caught up succession. I'm up to current and i got to watch it along with everyone else. It's great and <hes> just one quick thought you're gonna watch it so i won't spoil it. It's not not on my list but i have started okay nights in the currencies and the second episode is called vaulter and is about a digital media company that they actually buy in the very very first episode of the show. It's been the talk of slack. You're not in there anymore. It's the talk of the whole media world and the only reason i bring it up is because watching it. I was thinking the whole time oh my god. This is like giving me gawker p._t._s._d. This is so the same thing this all hands meeting this talk of unions. There's all this stuff that is like. We're the in the room but what's funny. Is i have listen into podcast and read articles and i have seen people very convinced of their take say that vaulter is meant to be vulture. I've seen themselves is meant to be vice yeah. <hes> <hes> several people very much convinced that it was vice simmons saying it's the same as gotham est and it's funny. I've seen all these people say. Basically it's supposed to be an amalgamation of them. Have course report publication is so convinced that it's a bear for all ego center so so it's partly that and it's partly that everyone loves this episode in the media who are the people who are making podcasts about it simply because it was so media heavy and new media heavy but also i just. I think that it's interesting that everybody thinks it's the place that they worked which just tells me that the story they're telling. Which is this very depressing story where the punchline is essentially the people people in charge of everything. Don't give a shit and are just self interested in have you know motivations that have nothing to do with the work and that everybody can look at that and that's the punchline punchline and think oh this is about me which just tells me that the show is totally right and that like it's making a broader point that is extremely depressingly accurate so great to read the deadspin article that making it was wonderful that i highly recommend that everyone out there refers to succession and it's also sir goodbye letter. She hasn't read that as you read that. Please remember what we said last week. Which is that kentucky is supposed to be and the three of us will keep passing never done. They can't get us so anyways. <hes> succession is great <hes> i was. Emily doesn't like it that much because it's stressful. I'm watching it but i i really am struggling like it it. It gets easier. Okay sounds like in season. It's easier because i like 'em on board with this shows weird wavelength wavelength of light and laughs like it's just once i know the character is a little bit. It's just easier to kind of stick with. I actually really enjoyed rewatching it. I will say eh rewatching the first her with my wife i really i enjoyed it a lot more yeah but her take was kind of like why. Why is this fun to watch. It's like well well. It sounds like fun. It's not quite the word but it is very very entertaining <hes> so i've been <hes> as i mentioned before rereading y the last man because as i found a copies of it and bought it and it's good it's very <hes> early two thousands in its way. It's sort of appropriate that i'm reading it. After watching veronica mars season one <hes> <hes> one thing that i've noticed is that <hes> they use the word people use the word retarded lot like they'll just be like god. I'm so retarded like they'll just say that because i think this was before before that was kind of brought say and th two to four like early two thousands so i just it just sticks out every time you're like if sir today they would definitely use a different word but it's also it's also kind of like heartwarming that it's like. Oh you know what nobody would ever do that today and right. It's genencor. Joshua rivera's thing that he said about barack mars is then even the things that are awkward or like wouldn't work today. Make me feel good in a way because we've come. We've come from some distance in even the last fifteen years anyways. It's cool. It's a really quick read. If you have a whole copy of it i'm finding i guess comics are just you can read them pretty quickly and and i'm reading physical books and i just burned through one hole volume in less than an hour and i'm really pacing myself. I'm just making myself stick to one every night and it moves really quickly. It goes through all these different places and i remember the ending is just really epic like the last couple of issues are kind of the theme of the volumes are really thing that kind of tie in altogether and elevated but it's cool pool. It's a it's a good very entertaining story. That's kind of all over the place and i'm glad they're making a t._v. Show out of that. I think that'll be. I'll watch and i'm a little less like i. I don't feel as much like i used to think that it was you know oh this. Is this kind of really amazing story. That could never be adapted into something else now. I'm reading. It and i'm seeing all these places that they could do interesting interesting things with the t._v. Show and maybe expand on it or try different ideas or flush characters out that i think could actually be cool so yeah. It's still many whatever you <hes> uh so. I'm not gonna talk about veronica mars even though i watched all of season two three and the movie and part of season four because i and i was home when she's lying video games and i haven't life but i'm not him so there's nothing embarrassing into your thirties like the free of us all our there's like nothing amarasinghe whatsoever being like yeah. I just went the past last week. Watching did see my girlfriend occasionally but she was busy for a lot of the week and i think that's very clear from how i've described the show so whatever it's fine when when you're younger it's like it's embarrassing. If you don't have plans on a saturday like oh she's busy. I can just sit back back and just watch television play video game for twenty four hours great great stuff anyway. I wanted to also recommend this other. Netflix show called the family emily that my girlfriend and i have started watching together. What did you think of. What did you think of two and three in the movie on a re-watch. Just quick quick their age. I should not have watched them. I i will leave it there. They are garbage. No one should do what i did there. Utter garbage and luigi was garbage. I'm talking about last episode remember. We already did this we did the the season finale for two is where it really gets silly. I'll leave it there anyway this other show the family. Have you guys heard of the family at all. Do you know what yes okay show right now. It's best to call the family that i'm thinking. Maybe it's a different family so it's a certain nonfiction documentary series on netflix. I think it's five episodes long. My girlfriend and i have started but having finished it because you know she's been busy. <hes> <hes> and it's really good so far. It's really interesting. It's about this sort of clandestine christian right dubious political allegiances so i guess i won't call them. Christian enright christian organization. That's sort of located in washington d._c. And some other places and has met with all of these different political leaders all over the world. They organized the national prayer breakfast here in the states. Which is this this event that every president has ever gone to for decades and originated as like an anti union breakfast i actually and has these weird origins and this show is about this strange organization. It's motivations which are super unclear and they've had all these influences on different politicians and have certain bible passages that they quote a lot and those passages will end up being in speeches of different politicians shinn's and like the way that those passages are framed. He's always in the same way and it's it's super creepy but what's creepiest about it is that it's not really clear whether their motivations are just naive or like actually manipulative if they naively are like yes. These are the passages that we believe politicians should care about in these are the the things in the bible bill that we want to propagate which church and state should be separated so no matter what i'm against that but it's not clear if there's an actual manipulation going on but there are definitely like bad actors that the show talks about where it's like well even if the organization as a whole doesn't feel this way here are people who've exploited this system in these events that this organization runs to their own nance just because it's become possible to do so due to this weird organization being so secretive and therefore it's possible for bad actors to take advantage of that secrecy. It's weird. It's a really interesting. Show about something that i knew didn't know anything about didn't know existed and it's fascinating so i i recommend it and i'm excited to finish so okay so real quick interlude here so the family what i was thinking was the two thousand thirteen movie with <hes> robert de niro great. It's a bad it's not it. This isn't like it's about a witness. It's about a mafia family. That goes into witness protection what i've discovered discover just now looking this up is that there were one two three four five six seven different t._v. Shows there have been all called the fan of yeah. It may be a little bit of a cliche. There are multiple colts that are called the family too because this the netflix the new netflix documentary came up during classic colts and we were talking about what to watch next yeah because it's not exactly a cult so it's not you're all you're all group classic colts good old classic club your club which isn't a call by by the way right definitely knocking all drink kool aid laced flavor aid was flavor aid true classic cults member would know that it was not because so where does where does drinking the kool aid the expression comfort. I thought it was a misnomer. It is but it's a misnomer. It's interesting correct <hes> kirk actually you would love this episode of billions. I just watched there's a whole thing about chomping at the bit versus champion paul giamati eddie has to like he's like shaping no pales- every topic of the kind of joke that rule me writers right right like when raiders right grammar jokes into their shows. It's just like a bunch of writers to on a way very aaron. Sorkin joke aaron circling. I'm okay cool cool so before we say goodbye. It is of course time for some muzak kirk. Give us your pick of the week all right. My pick of the week is abandoned. I wonder if some listeners maybe don't i know about <hes>. This is a van that i- listener told me about. I didn't know about either called marianna trench and they're pretty fun. They're a little bit like fun. Actually the band underfund with the period they have this kind of really like pomp and circumstance pop music. Their lead singer is at this huge voice like really very very produced very over over the top there a little much for me at times but i really like some of their songs that have had a good time listening to this tune is called burning up and it's from their two thousand fourteen album a story <hes> which is a concept album loosely based around the goonies so have you need to know anything else about this so okay. Here's a clip of burning is bad. What do you do. What's the use in this yeah so they're fun band. They've got a lot of albums. It's kind of cool and someone tells you either banned like this and you're like oh. They have much of them so yeah. They're fun to listen to see listeners. We'll fun song. Okay cool so i believe that is it for this week. Kirk manny see guys next time around by kotoka. Split-screen is an official podcast of cacao dot com. It's produced by jason schreier mattie myers and me kirk hamilton. I had it mixed the podcast and also wrote and performed our theme song and other music were part of the fusion podcast network where monday nimmo feed is executive producer of audio. You can find us on popular podcast services like panoply hannah fleet n._p._r. One google play and apple podcasts and we hope that you'll leave us a review. If you like what you hear find old episodes could talk dot com slash split-screen email us split-screen at cocoon dot com <music>.
Anthem's Development And BioWare In Crisis
"Welcome to Kentucky split-screen the only video game podcast that gets harder. As you get better at it. It's April fourth twenty nineteen. And we've got a lot of news and video games discuss this week. I we talk about the games we've been playing as I've rounded the bend on secular. And all three of us are playing Guiling baba is then Jason goes deep on the magnum expose. He published this week detailing the dysfunctional development of bio wears anthem and painting a portrait of a studio in crisis have all the answers. But it seems pretty clear that the games in the street has some serious problems because that was off topic discussion of Penn fifteen captain marvel the Bill in anime inflicted music the week. Stay tuned. And welcome back to the show for another week of discussing the ins and outs of the world of video games. My name is Kirk Hamilton. I am joined as ever by my two wonderful co hosts first of all Mattie Myers. Hello. Matty. Hello kirk. And also the two of us are joined by Mr. Jason schreier. Hello, Jason low. Hello. Hello. Hello, Kirk someone once said that at like, a split soon listener one said that you sound like you're always smiling while you're talking. So I think that's true watching you. Now ching you smile as he give us your beautiful NPR style show. So Hello Kirk. Hope you're having a wonderful day. It's a new show new beginning if you can tell from the smile on my face, I am having a wonderful day. Can I tell you guys? We're so yesterday last episode I guess last week I was recording in a remote location because we having our house painted and today, it's raining. So they're not painting. So I can record in my home studio, which is nice because it's it's a way better workspace. But. Let me share one little thing about getting your house painted that I had not intimated. And that is the guys doing it or wonderful, very excited house is gonna look bad. But when they paint your house, they have to cover the windows because they don't want to get paint on the windows. Right. So they put these like plastic sort of sheets tarps over the windows, really carefully. And like, you know, put him on. So they can paint the window cells. What that means though, is if you work from home or spend a lot of time in your house, it's that that you spend whole days in this house where the windows are just covered, and it kind of messes with you. I it today the windows are open, and it made me realize just how much it had kinda messed with my brain. It made me feel very claustrophobic. That was something. I didn't see coming. And I feel like it's having these weird unintended consequences on an Emily as we sort of live in this weird house with no view of nature makes me wanna go outside more shit. You go work in a cafe or something. Can you do day? I try all of your musical instruments. If you take over this corner of the coffee. No, I do get out more I go to cafes. And I'm like I have to just respond to Email for an hour. Definitely go outside because it messes with you. It actually reminds me of living when I lived up in the very foggy hills in San Francisco, and it'd be super foggy for a whole week. And they're just be this wall of fog. It was sort of the same depressing cluster phobic awful feelings this creeping dread Sony. I'm glad that they're not painting today as excited as I am for house to be paint. So nice to to see the sky. Welcome back to to the world of natural light. Here's so one thing when actually sad note before weekend into the show so a couple of weeks ago, Maddie, and I while we read she'd spoke to one of the co founders of QC games, which is the city of abide bunch of our awesome people and they made a game called breach. And he was telling us a little bit about it. And it sounded like the game at struggled to really find an audience turns out. Today out of the blue. They just announced that the city of shutting down and the game was gonna shudder. So that really sucks so best wishes to all those FOX's they find some new new opportunities over there at least Austin has a lot of game developers. So hopefully, they'll find some other stuff over there. And yet it's kind of a weird twist of eight because so many of those people are by aware transplants. They left by aware for whatever reason they left by Austin. And this is coming out in a week full of our news, which we will get to a little bit later wrestling. We talk about it for Nelson about some video games than I am very pleasantly surprised to look at our sheet run. She for the week and see a game that I told you to play you both aid. I'm so incredibly impressed that all of us are playing baba is you so Matty, why don't you start and give us give us some thoughts on this. Great puzzle game that I am absolutely in love with sure. This is a great game. Jason already explain how it works. But it's basically a series of word puzzles that when you solve them. They affect the way the level plays out. It's a top down bird's eye view pixellated level style. You can push blocks around and pick up keys to open doors as long as the rules of the levels. Stipulate that you can do those things. And because you're also moving these words around to change the rules of the level. You change the way your brain thinks about objects, and how words work and that experience has been really fun for me. And. It's also a huge time sink. Where if you are on a roll with his you, you can lose a lot of time before getting stock, or at least I'm still in the early part of the game where that's possible for me where I can just be like, I'll just play one more of these just quickly play one more and definitely stayed up too late last night playing just one more level of of is you? Go ahead. Well, it's going to say it's nice that it branches out. And this really good way where you can always be doing a lot of different puzzles at the same time. So if you get stuck on one particularly brutal one, you can just go and find something else to do. Right. And take a break from that puzzle. And just go play a different completely, different puzzle. That might make more sense to you at that time and also taking a break in general from this kind of puzzle game. It's sorta got that portal s quality where you just step away from it for twenty four hours. You come back, and it's totally obvious. You what you're supposed to be doing suddenly and you'll go on? Yeah. That happened. So I probably played a lot more than both of you. I was the most recent level world that I'm on is they'd like volcano cavern area, which is pretty late in the game. And there's some Rehill teflon's there. But what I found was after just getting stuck in staring at this one. I puzzle in that world for more must've been hours, I wound up taking a break turning it back on like getting through it finally figuring out clicking. And then just like like railing through a bunch of puzzles that I had previously found super difficult. Like once your head is in that space, you can wind up going on this crazy run. And I don't know. There's something interesting about the way that your brain works where like once you've turned it a certain way and started thinking in that kind of like lateral way, where your brain is thinking about all sorts of alternate possibilities to like the normal way that you think about how to do something then it can be really cool effect Kirk. What do you think you've been playing a bunch of two? Yeah. I really like it. It's it's challenging. And it hurts your brain. And the way the good puzzle games do so I've actually been playing with Emily we on the couch together, which is great because Emily is smarter than I am. And especially at this kind of puzzle game really better at this kind of thing that I am. So there have been so many times where she's figured out the solution. And I kind of have the controller, but you know, in this game, it's not a big deal who's controlling it. So that's been really cool to just sit there, and we kind of just stare at the screen, and then eventually like the night that we played we kind of just got to one where we just could not figure it out and it was late, and we're like, okay, this is making tired. We're going to bed, and I'm sure we'll come back to it and solve that one. So I can I can definitely see that rhythm working is interesting. The talk about secular later 'cause I've been playing a ton of that. But there are so many similarities between the two gains in to kind of weird extent. Anyways. We'll talk about that later. Comparison. Yeah, it's obvious because they came out around the same time. But I was also making the same comparison. No, no, no. It's more than timing. But. It's also one of those things are you have to keep like throwing your head against the wall. And eventually you make a breakthrough and sometimes it helps to step away for awhile. And then you'll come back and gone run. And. Yeah. Yeah. No for sure. But so but more on just the immediate impressions of the game. It what I like is the puzzles at least that I've done so far which I've only done maybe we've done maybe ten to fifteen or so, and I liked it everything operates on these kind of too early so far two planes. There's the sort of spatial plane and the conceptual plane if that makes sense so yeah, not a use summarized the game. And Jason you explain that last time, it's kind of, you know, this the spatial plane is you are controlling well, you're controlling a lot of different things. But I you controlling baba, and you're trying to get whatever the win state is you're trying to get to flag at first anyways. And so you need to traverse the space. And so you spend a lot of time thinking about the space, and that's kinda the spatial level. But then there's this conceptual level because things are other things in you're kind of doing it's not exactly programming. But it's the same idea where you're you're changing the language because in the space the words exist in the level. So you're pushing the words. Around. So you have to kind of think of both at the same time. You have to think. Okay. Well, I need to make you know, if I make wall is baba is you that means the wall will become baba, and they both will be me. So that's kind of very high level and conceptual. But then you also have to solve the puzzle of how do I get the wall like tile over to be in front of? And do I have enough is-is? I feel like the sentence. I say most is I wish I had another is a weird thing and it kind of with the weird name of this game. And it's cool. I mean, the head space that encourages is very different than something like even like the witness, which I sort of compare it to in some ways, it's really different in some ways. I also want to really quick to show you guys something. So I'm going to drop this into our chat. Let's see I'm pulling this up. So this is what baba looks like. I guess I I went to I went to describe it. It's in our this is our chat. If you guys are looking it's sort of this white creature with this will with as you think the baba is a sheep because it's so I'm gonna throw a theory your way, so Emily had to beautiful French BULLDOGS who are useful in the way that French BULLDOGS only can be and the one that I never got to meet is the late great carrot the dog who is a white French bulldog. And I'm going to drop this picture in here. This illustration that her friend got her as a gift. So if you're if you're listening at home feel free to Google baba for you can look at that. And kind of picture we'll try to describe it. So looking at now, that's carrot on the left. Theory is that baba is actually a reincarnation of carrot the dog and the the whole time we're playing this game, we're controlling or at least at the beginning. We're controlling Emily's. Beloved, French Ville, I'm while is in the white anyways. I want to just point. So it's interesting. I was thinking about the to the concept versus execution and how it's these two like different parts that are co-existing and you have to figure out right? But what's really cool about Bava? And really fascinating is sometimes you'll think okay? I know what to do. I just have to execute it. Right. Except you don't know what to because you're actually totally wrong. And what you're supposed to break, your brain, totally something completely different. So for example, I don't wanna spoil anything. So I'll try to be a little vague. But I was just doing this really tough puzzle in the cavern or this puzzle. I thought it was really tough and trying to figure all these things trying to figure all these things out. And then finally it was like, wait a minute. I just like move all these blocks that I've been trying to figure out stack them all up to make them just push something up, and then I just used on a push something up. And I was like congratulations you win. So I had to just totally the game is good. If fooling you into thinking that something is going to be one thing. And then it's actually something totally different which I think is part of what makes it. So gene genius. Is that it delivers on stumping you in both the concept. Amex acution instead of just one or the other. Yeah, it's definitely like court of the game since of humor that I it doesn't on purpose because you can tell it's doing it to you because you'll do a variation on a puzzle that you just solved and the whole point of will be that the solution you came up with absolutely doesn't apply. And it's usually because one tiny thing has been changed or one Pramod or is different. And you'll also bend a longtime kind of doing the at least the first few steps that I did the first time before realizing, oh, I have to completely Reconceptualise the solution to this because it's tricking me in. Don't even do that anymore. Like now, my methodology for it isn't just that. I do the obvious thing anymore. Just skip ahead to what are the playground esque activities that I can do with the tools that this level is provided me, and then that will usually cause something else weird to happen. Like L? Discover all the different things I can turn into what that looks like what that does. And then just move around the words in whatever configurations are actually vailable just so that I like no all of the level affects that they give will show me. So that I have that. And then usually at that point. I'm like now, I see what I can do and it doesn't ever really get easier. But that for me at least has been away to play. Because anytime I'm like, oh, I see the obvious path year. It is not it's the thing that game is trying to trick me into doing. And it's never actually what I'm supposed to do. So we have a we take a similar approach where I do that. I like play with all the parameters, and then Emily solves the puzzle. That's great. Babacan turn into. And here's the Walkin. She says it is it's fun when you become a wall, and you can like or any structure and can move in and out. It's like. The all. And you're like, you is all his you which hilarious subtly. You're yelling. Yeah. It's a very funny game. I think that it's it's really unique in the way that it uses its actual mechanics to create Umer, which is which is just really cool and clever. And yeah. So far. I think a lot about the experimental game challenge, which I don't know if that's still happens at GD. But it was always the thing on the last day where like for three hours all these game designers. We get on stage and show off their weird ideas. And it has Baba's used seems like the kind of game that would do very well there because I've always said it has a sort of circus trick effect where they'll show the game. And it's there's always it's a bunch of game designers showing game to other game designers. And so there's a lot of there's always a prestige moment and involve as you would totally be something like that. You would say, okay. Here's how it works you show the perimeter. And then you do some crazy thing where you know, you suddenly now year because of the rules that, you know, check out what you can do your the wall. And then you're moving the wall and everybody kind of snaps out of their hung over stupor and starts laughing and clapping. And so it feels like that kind of game. But in a cool eight like it's always making me laugh or think, oh, that's hilarious solution is is very funny. So I have been playing a little bit of Phoenix rate, which I gotta get an early code for the chiller. John switch. Not sure when it comes out this week or next week or something. Very different head space to be. And because it's a lot more chill just reading and enjoying that game is age is very well. It's an very well. I've only played the first case of the first game. But I really wanna play. I I haven't played the trilogy since it came out back on the DS is the first case the one where the kind of walk you through or do you mean the first real case? Yeah. The first tutorial case just those risk averse game. Yeah. Man. Can I just say I remember playing that game on my cousins three D S before earning DS, not three DS before? I had a DS before. I was reading about games just randomly discovering it on a DS and playing through it while on vacation and wanting to keep her DS and the entire game. I didn't know anything about Phoenix. Right. I was like kind of only tangentially paying attention to video games. And I loved that. I challenge and then that second mission where you know. There's a big plot twist and sorta something surprising happens from there. I just I needed to finish. It was fun. Very very well well-crafted game. And yeah. Because it doesn't need any fancy mechanic said like age, reportedly overtime or anything. It's just well written fund visual novel game. So yeah, I'll talk more about that. Once I played a bunch more because I want to replay the whole thing. I barely remember. What happened in those first three games? What about you guys? What else are you paying Kirk? You wanted to talk about secular and comparisons of zoo. Right. Yeah. I mean, I wanna talk about sex in general because seco- has really clicked for me the Ol- the old from software click happened. So I played quite a bit of this game. When we talked about it last week. And at the time, I think I don't know exactly what I said sort of like the game hadn't cast a spell over me. Like blood borne had which is another way of saying it hasn't really hadn't really clicked hadn't really grabbed me, and it's really really difficult, and I was hitting a wall like it's a constant series of walls that game much more. So than other souls into reasons we talked about last week largely due. The fact that you can't go level your character up and like become more powerful than they vary. Stringent way to make the wall shorter. There's no way to exactly just you go over it. And that's it. It's not you're not changing it, and you're not getting any taller you just got to climate. And that was a real challenge because I got to a boss, I'll be light on the spoilers. Wanna you know? I won't say anything specific. I think also because I know you're gonna keep playing Jason. I don't wanna spell you. But also any listeners, but there's a boss called Janine Chiro who up to. Yeah. I know it's someone you're up to and it's the one that I'm guessing a lot of listeners are getting to. It's definitely the place. That'll be a maker break for a bunch of people. It's a really difficult fight for a number of reasons. It's just because you've just got to beat this guy. And he just is the samurai with a bow rough bow and arrow, and it's sword. And he's fast as hell and he hits really hard. And he's aggressive and the fight escalates in some ways that it gets very very difficult. And so it's it's the kind of challenge that I would have normally expected to see at the end of most games because it's so hard, and it really just demands so much of you and it for awhile. I was really just thinking this is not really working from this is too hard. This. This is so much harder than anything. I've had to do in a souls gamer in bloodborne that I don't wanna play this. But then I kind of just stuck with it. I kinda gritted out. It wasn't super fun. It just was this tough thing of kind of learning the fight. And I did and it took a few hours, and I committed to it. And I learned the fight. And I got to the point where I could beat his first phase and second phase like really effectively counter everyone of his attacks. I kind of figured out some strategies I started getting experimental and I finally beat him. And at that point the game opens up it I it opens up. Geographically, like a bunch of stuff opens up to you. There's a huge like shift in the story, and you get new characters you get kind of new places, you can go no spoilers or anything just their places you could go without beating him. But once you beat him bunch of stuff opens up and the game starts feel very big. So there's one baba is you parallel is Maddie. Or Jason one of you just now was saying that it's cool. Jason you were saying this that it's cool that there's always somewhere you can go. Secular definitely has that feeling which I feel like when bloodborne is at its best. It feels that way too or souls. There's this of I can go to the woods. I could go find your straw. And find something else to beat your price. Exactly. There's somewhere else you can go. And that's certainly true. Seco- secretary. Does a good job of kind of hinting at you where to go. It's much more kind of surface about it. Like, it tells you go over here. There is a character will say oh, go explore this area. Which is cool. There is also I'm finding at least I like the combat so much and having beaten Geneva got have gotten so much better at it that I like just fighting guys. Like, I really like it. It's so fun. It's more fun than bloodborne more from the Knoxville's. The comments assumes incredible. It's like a fighting game. And it has that same. I think we talked about it with DMC and with other fighting games natty, the sort of this is making me feel like you guys messed up with me, and you should have made me play second instead of boring because the way you guys talk about second. Like, I like you might load. From software game that I would've actually liked so. It's different. And I do feel like I just wanted to. Sure of the two of you. Kirk force me to really know you. Early pure pressured into doing we'll happily take credit for more people feeling like they have to play bloodborne or a secular for that matter. But so I like going around and fighting guys I'm finding that my way of playing is sort of similar to how I play bloodborne I'll just repeat areas over and over again because you can kind of farm like you firm items, and you can level up. Your your prosthetic thing to get better upgrades. Man. I tweeted a video of this upgrade you get. The ravens something. I can't remember it's called like mist of the raven or something. And it lets you do the hollow night pass through thing where someone attacks you turn into miss and go around behind them, and it's so cool. And so getting good at that has been really rewarding and fun. And just the game has really taken over my brain in that in that same way. I think it's really incredible. Like, it's I'm on board. It's in some ways. I don't know yet. I haven't finished it. But it has it has the potential to be their best game or one of their best games. Because it's so clear about what it is best is I guess the wrong word it's their clearest game. It's very. Very focused on what it wants to be. It doesn't have any that shaggy-dog stuff. That dark souls has which to some people, I think is probably a bad thing because we will all that you can get a bone era do builds or, you know, like cheese enemies or find weird stuff in that way. Separate was way. More just like, here's the experience you're having you can get very creative within these much more restricted parameters. But it's but it's such a clear game. And it's so this feeling of I don't know all of their other games. There is that level of focus and tightness to the fights and the mechanics underneath all that shaggy-dog stuff. But usually the way that I play them I know dogs like wait what a big shaggy dog. It's like the it's like a big kind of. Extra stuff on something. Who is this Lena kind of Doberman short second about how every game and bubblering game has a has a dog. Man's best friend cetera et cetera. All the caller. The shaggy actually kill. Yeah. I think could. And it's messed up that was one of many many aids. Tweets. Offer they secretly hate docs. It's messed out. So. So have about I want to go on about secular forever because I'm still playing. I'm sure we'll talk about it more. But that that thing that focus the way that it's just very very tightly made in the combat is so good and it forces you to actually really learn it is just such a rigorous cool thing. And now that I've kind of gotten over that hump which is extreme hump. I mean, jeez side of this. I just want to say is that such a time commitment that it's like it is really. And I'm not even talking. I don't want to lead into the debate of other needs an easy motor something like that. Because I don't have strong opinions on that one way or another. But it is something where you have to be like, all right? I'm going to dedicate like X hours the night. I was probably hardest thing about the challenge for me. It wasn't that. I didn't think I could ever beat Junichiro. It was that. I was just literally didn't want to spend five hours doing it. And I kind of had to decide. Okay. I'm just gonna spend this Saturday morning. The best time to video games spend this Saturday morning getting to where I can finally be him. I think I actually finally be them on Sunday. But yeah, and it is that. Thing where when we were talking about fighting games and learning the musical instrument when I haven't been practicing as much music over the last week, and it really is a choice. I've had to make is I'm not going to be learning. This new thing on because I only have so much bandwith. I really just feel that way. I get exhausted of just practicing inputs outputs and matching and rhythms. And that's what this game is. It's just you know, it's it's a video game about being an injury instead of whatever like Voltaire. That it makes me think. Oh my God. Like is this a waste of time. Like, what are what are we doing here? Right. I think that too. But at the same time, it's really it's really rewarding and fun. And I'm actually like loving the world in the story and the experience of doing it, it is a leisure activity. It's not work. It's not like making creative output. So it has a very different context. Despite the fact that it uses the same part of my brain. So they're different and decision that I'll go back and forth on I I wonder if I'll just keep playing it as hard as I have been or I could see burn out on this game could be super real. He's actually just another another Baba's youth thing to point out. Is that this game doesn't think very similar where you feel like a Lord one minute because you solve Imbaba's. You saw the very hard puzzle. Secular. You beat really hard boss and then fifteen minutes later, if you just push forward, you're gonna find another boss that's gonna shred you. And you're going to think oh my God. I suck and used the same way. Something you're you're a moron again. Yeah. So it's very it's so rigorous that that's exhausting. It doesn't have that pleasant. Lou. Of a destiny or division a service game. Like just kind of always feeding. Yeah. It's very different. And so I could see myself getting needing to take breaks and getting well. I mean for the hiccup was always with these games. And the reason that I found soft bloodborne to begin with and twenty fifteen way back in the day when it came out was because it's like, all right? Every hour that I spend slamming my head against the wall. This boss is an hour. I could be using to play something that will get me progress, and it doesn't feel like making actual progress in this. And I think that is the biggest ticket for people. Especially people have very limited gaming time. They've children or or multiple jobs or whatever else is just taking up other time. So yeah. So I can see why that that part of the game wouldn't be quite as appealing, and it's not for everybody. It's like separating the types of progress where the one type of progresses where the game is showing you the progress and the other type of progresses where you're slowly getting better at it because you are making progress over the five hours. Yeah. Exactly. Like over the five hours. I spent funding ginger I certainly made progress and there were times where I think okay, I can get through his third phase. No problem. Like, I'm clearly better at this. And that's a good. Feeling. But right. You're not clearly getting anything out of it. And there is this feeling of. When he occasionally just would kill me. Right. I would come in. And I would just do something kind of wrong and be be wrong-footed from the beginning. And he'd kill me immediately. And it would have this realization that the only thing keeping this from happening. Every time is me. It's just I'm the one who has to put in the effort and have the use my brain. And there was something kind of exhau-. There's something empowering about that. But there's also the exhausting about that about just that feeling. And so yeah, it is that it's a different kind of progress. I almost feel like there should be like practicing music is nice because you can break it into sections, and you can slow the metronome down. If you if there was a way to say. If you could just practice the final phase instead of having to get to it every time, it's like practicing sheet of music at the default tempo without ever skipping around and having to get through the whole thing perfectly to even practice the coda don't do 'cause that's. Back to the beginning. Back to the beginning. Every time even one thing is like so yes, you're making progress, mentally and your skills getting better in your improving every time you actually fight the bus. But then there's all that time in between. And I kept thinking about this when I was taking on martyr areas fifty times is that every time to get to him and takes a solid sixty seconds to go through this path and that adds up over time. And it's like, oh my God. Those say I'm never getting back. Yeah. Sicker is better about several Junichiro fight you start right there. I mean, they're so far with every fight. I know I know. But I think that that they're definitely parts of the game where you're not actually in progress. But anyway, Mattie, what are you playing? Well, speaking of games that make you feel satisfied about having completed something whether or not you actually have I'm still playing poker on on the switch phone sometime. Simul Pokemon game the combat of souls. I would actually okay. So one of our senescent Email asking that we should've said poke them on because that would have been a really funny answer to that question said Jason. But yeah. Like a from software poke Amman, I would definitely play. Yeah. But poke him on his absolute is Johnny listener who who said. Pita from software. What franchises would would you use? His suggestion was kidding, Chris or Pokemon. He suggested he did good. Yeah. When I responded in saying, what if it was why are you aware, and he responded to me saying Pokemon? So thanks, John. Great great on southbound present spoke him on. It definitely is a game. That gives the exact experience that Kirk isn't having where it's like it's related progress, and I'm not necessarily working hard for it. But it makes me feel extremely accomplished without having to do any difficult mechanical work whatsoever. However, I know there is difficult mechanical work that I can do under the hood of poke Amman, and I've been getting into that with like leveling up my team like I'm far enough. Now that I kind of getting into the googling the best moves for me to unlock for each Pokemon and how to spend all right? One of those people. But yeah, mostly it's just that my cat sprained his leg this week. So he's confined to one room. So I've been spending a lotta time just lying on my stomach with my cat with my switch just hanging out with him because he can't really go anywhere. So a lot of my couch. Playing time has been limited because I'm hanging with my cat guys. That sounds like an ideal way to play poker with your pet virtual pets. It's been fun. And it's also pretty ideal way to play Bob is you my Cabot very gently put his PA onto baba too fast. And it's really cute. It's been he's saying he's like, no, you're you're trying to shift it. Messing this up right now Doraville. Cool. So why don't we take a little break? And then we can talk about bio ware and anthem. And we are back Kirk Maddie. Let's talk about anthem. Let's do it. So earlier this week Kentucky dot com. Published a big piece about what went wrong when them a lot of people discuss it. I'm sure many of you listening to this have had a chance to see it quick question. Who wrote that piece written by me edited by Stephen to tell and Chris color and made possible by the staff of Kituku, all of these talk helping keep the site running. So I could fuck off for a while and chat with people. So yeah, there's a lot to talk about here. I just want to start by saying that like this article came together as a result of me asking as I often do a question, which is how did this game? Turn out the way it did how'd anthem turn out. Like feels like such a shallow repetitive. Grind game seemed to learn none of the lessons of desk. Tony in the division and all the loot shooters came before it, and while I was talking to people in doing interviews for this story, it became a little bit larger, and it became more clear to me some stuff that I hadn't known was that by wear is facing a serious crisis and has been for a couple of years now in large part, thanks to their production, practices and mismanagement. And there's a lot of resentment from the people who work there towards their senior leadership team and the people who were making decisions or not making decisions on anthem. So I want to summarize article, and then we can just get into the meat of actually talking about it. So if you haven't read it go check it out. It's eleven thousand words, so I won't get all of it here. But the gist of it is this is a game that was plagued by mismanagement and in decision and technology issues. Thanks to frostbite the game engine that EA likes all of its studios to use. It was also plagued by tension between by were multiple studios and in Austin tension between by by were leadership and by were developers. I think just a couple of quick kind of bullet points in the article one is that it used to be one thing in two thousand fourteen when it was kind of being built up and imagined it was envisioned at this as this kind of survival game where you would go out into the wild and scavenge for Luton stuff with your friends and see how long could survive and then come back and build up your gear from there. And then Casey. Hudson was the director of the game having directed the mass effect trilogy before this left. He left by the end of two thousand fourteen and the quote from when he left, by the way is pretty wild. He wrote on the blog listen to this. He said the foundation of our new IP Edmonton is complete on the team is ready to move forward into pre-production an title that. I think will redefine interactive entertainment. Let that sink in first thing, I think will redefine interactive entertainment, an anthem actually turned out to be like God. It's like the the way the company's market. These games is pretty agreed. But anyway, I digress. So when Casey has left the way that that bio orders, the massive team by or has been described, and it's kind of described within the studio as the Star Trek enterprise is opposed to the dragon each team, which is a Skype as pirate ship because it meanders from place to place, and it's going to over here over here makes them decisions over here makes him decisions over your eventually, it'll wind up in Newport after taking a whole lot of steps along the way as opposed to the Star Trek enterprise, where it's like we are laser focused on one destination. And we were all just gonna follow orders of our captain John loopy card, and that was to say really quickly. I think I like that you use card and not captain Kirk despite car is the one that. Take them in a straight line Kirk. I dunno. He was waffling around kind of a more of a pirate. Is the one that was appropriate. I like that when I was reading anyway. Questions and there's a lot to debate overall in game development about like theory, and this idea of a single person as the creative in. That was the case with the massive kimes and the rest of Kisii Hudson leadership team had been working on this game. Which at the time was code named Dylan on the Bob Dylan video games. So they were all kind of positioned in a way where they would always defer to Casey Hudson, and suddenly there's this big void of leadership there, and this guy John Warner who was kind of a recent EA higher st- took up the role of game director, but it wasn't quite the same. After that. According to all the people that I spoke to that's another problem started. And throughout the years, it wound up being a lot of things. Just kept getting scrapped and decisions weren't made for years at a time and lots inflex and not a lot was getting done. Eventually. It's two thousand seventeen three comes along. There's some drama involving a demo and. Yeah executives and eventually they come up with the three demo which puts flying in the game and fighting seen it takes center stage after having been kind of scrapped in reacted from the project over over the past couple of years. And that becomes the centerpiece. And then finally it's like mid two thousand seventeen we see the game developers. Finally know what the vision actually is. And they're like, okay. This is what it is. It's turned into this loot shooter. Now, we know what we're making. No, we can actually make the game still. There was some floundering. And then what happened was in October of two thousand seventeen by were made some big changes and Casey Hudson actually came back and took over a studio GM from Aaron Flynn who laughed and Casey Hudson made the decision to reboot dragon each four which had been in development for a couple years at that point and put most of that team onto anthem because anthem was on fire and they needed to get out the door. So Mark Darah who's the executive producer dragging age took over as executive producer an anthem kind of made some decisions got some things out the door. Suddenly the the team was driven by production resemble the actually hit a schedule insert shipping things and then throughout twenty eighteen they actually shipped the game over the course of these past two years there were so many departures from bio her, and I wound up going. Through just Lincoln looking at the people who had left viral over the past couple of years, and it's astronaut Michael numbers. A lot of them went to improbable, which is this new studio in Menton that Aaron Flynn wound up opening up a lot of them went to other cities other other game development studios all over the place. I think that a lot of this is the stress and anxiety from working on these projects, and it Wednesday turning into this thing where because of their production schedule, and because of the way that they're making these games this, quote, unquote, Bayreuth magic with the is the way that they describe it where everything is might be on fire for a while. But it will coalesce at the last minute as a result of this. You have a bunch of people who went from dragon position was which was extremely hard for those people to massive drama, which was also extremely hard for those people to anthem which was also extremely hard for those people. It was kind of the same story three times in a row. So that was really really difficult for a lot of people. And I think that is something that I try to explore in the pieces, the depression and anxiety that those people had to face which. Really hard to hear about and really brutal. And and just yeah. Super super depressing to hear from some people's stories, and we'll wind up happening was I heard a lot of personal stories from people that I was just like man, I wish I could report in this. But I can't because it'll everyone will know who you are. And then spoke to me all these people spoke to me anonymously. And so there's some real heartbreaking stuff that I heard, but couldn't actually share as a result of which have all the time happened to me with rockstar pieces. Well, like the most heartbreaking stories you wind up being unable to share either. Because by asking around you would potentially people if you were trying to corroborate it or just publishing it would identify people in the first place. Anyway, they wanted shipping the game wind up coming together in the last few months as same within drama and same thing position and wind up being a mess with the game. Like this. It was like them trying to do so many new things all at once them not having the expertise to make this action shooter but making that anyway, not in the expertise to make an online game that people in Edmonton, not listening to the. In Austin who actually did not make an online game. Yeah. It was the recipe for a mediocre game. And that's what turned out with anthem. So yeah, that's the gist of the story. I haven't really mentioned the frostbite stuff. But there's a lot of I've written and talked a lot about the engine that causes a lot of people out of problems as a result of the quote that I heard from someone which suck with me was frostbite is full of razor blades. It's just this game making suite of technology that I think for shooters can work. Well, but because it was made by dice people make battlefield for those games. But for the RPG's and actually games by were is trying to make does not work. Very, well, they're also very understaffed. The EA would just take people there programmers and be like, hey, we need to work on fief. Now, it was very much this type of thing where it's like anyone who's needed to put out one fire over here is moved to over there. And that's just the way that they've been doing business. After we published article, which again, you go read on Kentucky, just summarize it. But there's a whole lot more in there. We buy aware. So what happened was I actually emailed by aware as representatives. So let's see. So the article went up on Tuesday. I hit them up the Friday beforehand being like, hey, I'm working on this. I would like to talk to John Warner the director, Mark Darrow, the executive producer, basically. I want some interviews. Right. They said we'll we'll see what we can do. Tell us more about the story. What I always do kind of believe in no surprises journalism. That's always the way you've been taught to do these things. So I like to make sure that any subject that. We're covering knows exactly what's going to be printed. So they have a chance to give their perspective on things. So I wound up sending this largest bullet points. It was like, here's basically the gist of what's going to be in the article. They didn't really respond. I was like are you guys gonna comment? They're like, no. We're declining to comment and then on Tuesday when I put the article about ten minutes later, they publish this bizarre blog posts that was like clearly written based on what they thought was going to be in the article based on the bullet points that I had sent them. And it's it's the super super depressing thing because it's kind of just like hand waving the concerns, and it talks about how how didn't wanna participate because the thought that the article was unfairly targeting people, and I'm gonna read a quote from this article that I think really bummed out a lot of people. We don't see the value in tearing down one another or one another's work. We don't believe that articles that do that are making our industry and craft better and something that was really depressing about this thing the way the bio were came out and responded to this is that I think there's a lot of hope from a lot of the people who spoke to me, and then even more people reach out to me after the article went live. There's a lot of hope from people that by where would see this article and be like holy shit. Like, we need to change our ways because sometimes what can happen as you guys know is ever knows is that like internal complaints might not have the same effect as public pressure and publicans, and sometimes my making something public you can have a much greater impact than you would just by like going. HR with your complaints or something like that. But then those then everybody saw this by were statement. And it was like oh my God. They're basically burying their heads in the sand and saying like, this is tacos fault for targeting us unfairly, and we're not gonna do anything about this. So my hope I think a lot of people's hope is that after actually reading the article people will do feel differently and address this internally, and I guess we'll have to wait and see what the what the fallout is in the wake of this article. But yeah, that was super depressing to hear about. All right. I've been talking for a while. Yeah. What do you guys? Would you guys? Think of this whole whole weeks sequence of events. Yeah. But it was it was great work. I think great work. And I'm you know, I was impressed with all of your sources just I think they were very candidate. It was cool that so many people talk to you, clearly they all have very serious concerns. And I think the article definitely communicated that I I guess I was struck by a few things men. There are a few specific things in this that struck me one of them is the way that this article. I think helpfully reinforced the idea that the people are what make the studio, and you know, so many people who made by our what people think of as bio aren't there anymore? I think that you're repeatedly referencing just how many people left during this exodus is really something. That is just it's very very difficult to get your head around as a gamer just as a person who who follow because companies advertise of brands not with. Yeah. And just because it's it's difficult to think of to even conceive of the size of the Fisher anthem. I think that was interesting, and sort of helpful that I've seen a lot of wrestling with that just in comments and read it threads and wherever people talking. About this where you know bio ware made all these things that I love, and then some point out you have that's not really the same company anymore. Just isn't is not the same people. And you know, and that I think is just helpful for kind of beginning to conceive of this very difficult notion of who really makes a game. And so I thought that was yeah. By the way, one important thing to note, actually about that point is that a lot of people who were in charge of anthem were the same people who are in charge of the massive g and I think that's really important because a something that I started hearing for more and more people after my article live is that some of these problems rear their heads during mass effect as well. It's very much like a cultural thing, and I heard a lot a lot of people pointed out some bureaucratic issues and just a culture like having meetings for every little thing and indecision, and and a lot of people just pointed out some other issues that were part of that from the very beginning. So this isn't to say that it's like the reason I bring that up now is because I don't want it to be interpreted as like, oh my God. It's this new group of people. Making anthem and they're like the worst. It's the same group of people happen to make these beloved like game critically acclaimed gains. It's just that the way they've been doing this. I think has really burnt a lot of people, and it's tough for me to cast judgment on the way that they do or tell them like you should be doing this better. You should be doing this better whatever because I don't work there. I'm not part of the company. I'm just hearing what other people are telling me. But it seems like there has been something fundamentally toxic from the beginning that they need to look at and just like takes the time to reevaluate and examine and look at what's going on over there notice driven so many people believe. Yeah. I mean, I think that the the the people who said they hoped that dragon age inquisition would fail. Yes. That was extremely striking. That people were saying basically this this game was impossible to make which is detailed in your book. Actually, there's a whole chapter about that. And they were saying this doesn't work. This dial making games is killing us, and we just need it to fail. So that someone will have to do something. And now there have been these failures. So maybe they will it seems like you've written this same big picture story. So many times because you're kind of chronicling this one thing, which is this one type of AAA development practice that's happening in so many places in so many different ways. It's that hockey the hockey stick thing they talk about where flat. And then it ramps up the idea of like indecision of people spending years and years and years, just spitballing ideas. And then finally making a game in the last minute. You know destiny was made that way, and so many games were made that way, and that seems like the more people talk about an are aware of it. Hopefully, people start to do something. I keep thinking of the writer. We'll do something. Friend of the show Matthew burns and Tom bustles game which everybody who has since this should play. Just Google the writer will do something. It's a free game GIO text only short. And it's all about a creative leads meeting at a AAA game studio for an imaginary game. And it's so I mean, even has things that are specific to this article. I mean, it's so it's really depressing and kind of sad. But also funny in that way, that you know, the truth can be funny, and it kind of captures that feeling of you know, the writer will do something. What that even means is everyone's saying, we don't know the writer will do something like we don't know what to do. And that it seems like that happened a lot. I just wanna say something. And then I'll throw it to you Manny. 'cause I'm gonna hear your thoughts to but to your point about this being the same thing over and over again, something that I actually saw criticized about the article which fair enough was that this kind of is just it makes it seem like these problems exclusive Tobia where when they are so prevalent within the union ministry and actually something that happened to me yesterday was I started getting messages from people who were at other. Beloved, AAA game city is just being replaced my studios name with by were and the article replaced by or my seduce name in this article. And it's the same exact story. And I was like, okay that's fair. I mean, this specific Sewri was meant to illustrate how infant wrong, so, but but it's totally it seems to be pedantic. And it's like the question is is this being is this the way that people make games because that's how it's always been done that everything coalescence at the last minute. And that's just how games are made. Is there a better way to do? This are there better practices. The people. Make games are smart. They're ton of smart people making games have have there been no like kind of advancements in this is it because of the tools is because it's impossible to schedule finding the fun. Just so many questions without answers here. And one of the reasons that I wrote that book was like to try to figure out why this happens and just kept finding over and over again, then it just keeps happening over and over again like it just seemed to be unavoidable for so many of these projects setting out trying to do. All right and then doing a wrong along and you're going to have to come up with an answer. Jason. Yourself into. I do have one answer which is by the time. This this podcast comes out. I think my article will be up that I wrote for the New York Times this week about how it's time for game developers frigging unionized already. So that's one possible option step one. I mean, it's one thing they can do, but it doesn't necessarily solve the big picture problem that you're talking about Jason where there is this just long running culture of an idea that if we just get to a place where we crunch really hard all of these problems will melt together, and it reminds me of like tech week or hell week in theater department where it's like, oh, it's the final week of the show. And if we all know the show is going to happen in that final week. We'll just stay up all night every night, and it all comes together. And of course, you know, maybe. There are many. There are many creative industries where there's a similar ethos. But I feel like video games just over time that they have exaggerated and exaggerated that like crunch and video games of so long Dettori Asli long, and they just keep extending the hell week back further. And then they'll delay the game or whatever it may be. And so that insist isn't Hanley wrong. But in reading the article, I was also just thinking, and this is my automatic, Mattie, take I really want to believe that it's possible for AAA games with hundreds and hundreds of employees to make something because I think that triple games just as an idealized concept are really cool, and I don't want every AAA game to be made under inherently unethical standards and right now in the time, which we live that's not guaranteed to be every time. But it nearly always is. And it's something that's uncomfortable. And I feel like it's created this conversation online where people can float the idea with AAA game. And a game that's made by hundreds of. People or thousands of people just being an inherently problematic entity that could never there's no way to fix. It will just always have this unfair working conditions or whatever it may be an I just don't believe that's true. And I know that I mean, we talked to an indie studio that that's a worker co op and it's like a tiny tiny studio Jason on the podcasts at GD. And and you you were like, oh is their way to scale it. And I think even your question comes from this same type of optimism where you want to believe it's possible that a bigger studio earliest, I if that is what you meant. I completely agree. You want to believe that these bigger studios like your mid range studios, like your double fine's. But even you're really really big studios can have a machine that while big still communicates internally well-enough that they're don't have to be these bogged down bureaucratic meetings or whatever leads to the situation where the quote unquote, hell week lasts for months or years or the entire direction gets changed. I mean, I don't know. I want to believe it's possible. I don't know. No, maybe unions or one way to get there. But it's not gonna solve everything. Because some of it is just a cultural problem with how games have been getting made. And this tendency that has just been happening. So the ironic thing is that we were talking to the people you referring to Scott Benson and nothin' Mary who were talking about their own studio, and how it's a co-op, and when you make decisions they do it all together, and nobody gets nobody has decision making power, and I was actually thinking while we're talking about that about this story because I heard on these anecdotes of people being in a meeting and arguing over some creative decision and nobody actually stepping up in making the decision. So they would just leave and nothing would be decided, and it just wouldn't get decided and nothing no progress would be made and like people might be asking. And and get the answer from the director level people. Like, oh, we'll figure that out or like, oh, it'll come later like like something like that. Right. And that almost seals like it might be exacerbated in in a situation where everyone can make decisions or maybe it's the opposite. And maybe if everyone feels empowered then everyone will just had kinda take. Control over their domain without having to worry about it. Couple other quick thoughts. One is that. I think that this is something that so many people have been trying to solve and just had so much trouble solving over the years because when you're making a new game, especially in new there isn't a lot to just like like piggyback off of there's not a lot to just say. Okay that works really well. So we can just focus on on iterating on it. And that is the explanation for why so many of the the new IP's over the years have started off kind of like good to mediocre level. And then the sequel to them greatly uncharted to the assassin's creed to the mass effective is a perfect example. And actually if you look a bias trajectory. It's really interesting because what happened was dragon age origins comes out. It has a six year hellish development cycle. Eventually great game comes out of it. Jogging H two is an interesting piece because that game is developed in a year. And that is the result of a scheduling challenge where nights a sours. The Republic is delayed and says the by where look we need you to make a game fill this hole in the schedule where where the public is to be. And they say, okay, we'll do a dragon age in this tiny period of time in one city, whatever like super super lows file, and if you talk to people there actually super proud of that game because of the constraints under which they made it under and playing that game. Like thinking of it that way is like really interesting, and you gotta wonder what would have happened if that game had been released as like a thirty dollar game instead of a six game. But we've been we've been we would be having a totally different conversation about it's like, yeah. As something they wanted to call it. Yeah. But anyway, okay. So that comes out then you look at it and position, and I actually talked to Mike leabeau's, the creative director of inquisition about this while while I was interviewing interviewing him for my book. And he told me something really interesting, which is that they were second guessing a bunch of their decisions because dragon each to had gotten such bad negative feedback. And so they like have this insecurity that was just haunting the leadership team because they're like, oh my God. We just put out this game. That is getting like six out of ten when usually by or games get nine hundred tens and tens tents. So what are we going to do here and that just paralyze them, and so they weren't able to make decisions and that happens so frequently and just this idea of indecision and just management not being able to come to a singular vision and just come up with this is just the toughest part of making games. I think because they're variables into express sympathy for that like making anything I told I actually get a lot of this. Like, it's this isn't like I don't understand why this happened a whole lot of. You're describing super human and understandable things like, yeah. Even like the leadership failures the people not wanting to make decisions. I completely got it. I've seen that happen. And I've contributed to that myself in various endeavors over the years is super understandable. And it's a very real normal problem. Like, it isn't some unusual thing. It's like totally get that. I really do sympathize. Yeah. And it's even worse. I think it's more pronounced with gains because games are such a combination of so many creative actors in a way that things are because it's like you've got the cinematics and the storytelling of movie making and the music of music making and like combine that with the interactivity elements, and like the having to make it fun, which is such a kind of nebulous concept, like how do you know, something's fun, and then the top of that you have to worry about technological issues and engines and servers with an online game and just the number of factors, and is like it's it's as has been said many times, including my book, it's miraculous that these things get shipped at all. And that's one of the reasons I've. Sympathetic with to this stuff over the years. And I just don't know like I wish there were answers. And if anyone listening to this as a AAA developer who feels like my company gets it. Right. And I've definitely heard from people who are like I enjoy working in my company people at Ubisoft, for example, or like, I really like it here. People who worked on assassin's creed odyssey, for example. Which is I mean, look at that. And that's like the iteration process of one assassin's creed after another machine, which is maybe that's how these games have to be made is like their camping new ideas because new ideas make everything explode. Games. Now. That's. Or like, I've heard some good things from people at insomniac who I think it really really enjoy working there and have like a really good work. I there so something else I wanted to bring up, and this is really interesting is that the the idea of people trying to make it better. Right. And like people getting off of a really tough production and saying look we have to make it better next time right after the last of us naughty dog looked around and they said holy shit. Like, we just went through this incredibly brutal crunch. We don't want to do this again. Right. And Bruce strangely who is the co director of last of us would kneel Dreckman and then went on to do charted four. He knows your own Kentucky's. Also. Yes, let's get he and Neil Dreckman Wendo taking over on charge four for various reasons, they wind up having to repeat that production schedule over again because they started in the middle and scrapped it, and you can read about the drama in blood, sweat and pixels because I wrote a kind of documented all there. But anyway, cut to the end of charted for this might be the. Worst crunch that some of those people have ever been through in their lives. A lot of people end up leaving I go to naughty dog and start talking to people in October of two thousand sixteen. I believe that's when it was maybe a little bit earlier some sometime in fall as summerish of twenty sixteen. I got their start interviewing people, and I'm sitting out with Bruce Louis, who's a super candid brilliant design guy. Right. And he says to me look this what we did on charter for. We just cannot do it again. And my priority is finding a way to make sure that our production is more reasonable for the next project that we're working on which wind up being a loss of one month. Later, two months later, news comes out the Bruce Shelley is going on sabbatical. And then a few months later. He's got he leaves the company you gotta wonder like the it's not a great sign really is. I don't know what he's doing. Now, some sort of less. I heard he was working on like VR interactive park thing escape rooms thing. But it's like people I hear all the time about people who are like we can do this better. We can do this better. And then it just doesn't happen. Like, it feels like a nurse says fighting so hard against them. And I have heard the whispers or the rumblings. I mean, I guess I'll just say it that like I heard from someone who is at naughty dog who was like replaced buyer over naughty dog in this article, and you got the same story. Like naughty dog is known in the video game industry for crunching hard, crunching really, really hard. And man, if a company with as many, brilliant, designers and engineers, and and just makes the best games in the world, some of them as the world is is suffering from this. Then like is there any way to stop it? Like what what is the answer here? God I wish I knew you can understand again to like understand the sort of human impulse there. If you're the person there, even if you're a person with cloud, a senior person on the staff, and you say, we can't do this again, there does still come appoint for you personally. I'm sure you kind of look. Say or do I just say fuck this and go do something better because life is too short. And I wanted. You know, life doesn't begin and end with this game that I work at I can see why people don't solve the problem, especially because there aren't always incentives in place for them to do. So. Yeah. Yeah. It's super depressing. And it's like, I keep feeling like, I'm almost helpless because I I'm reporting a lot of these issues and talking a lot of people about these issues. But like, and I wanna scream like there's gotta be a better way. But I also feel like it's not my place to be like, I'm not a game developer. I'm not in the trenches of these people. I'm not I I can't be telling them like this is how you should do things. And so, yeah, it's been tough. I've been thinking about this a lot as I work on my next book, which is going to tackle a lot of this stuff. This is stomach issues that surround the video game industry. And yeah. And we haven't even gotten into all the, instability and layoffs and seedier shutdowns. And that just compounding of this stuff is like why does anybody working video games? My god. I don't know. Because video games are awesome. They too cool. You can't help it. You know? Aren't they are certainly awesome? Yeah. Man, surprising donor. Any final thoughts on anthem by where before we before we move on. No just reiterate that it's a great article. I think you'd just run should go read it. Fishy. Essence creed. I guess the true. Yeah. No. I appreciate that. And sometimes I am very cognizant of the fact that it sometimes feels like what's saying disaster tourism, and I'm very aware of like being being portrayed that way, and China be really careful about that sort of thing. But yeah, I think these stories are really important to tell and I feel like it would be remiss to the people that I speak to if I didn't try to keep telling these stories, and and exposing this kind of stuff. All right. Why don't we take another rake? And then we'll talk about some off topic stuff. And we are back in his time to close out the show with some off topic chatter. Kirk why don't we start with you? Don't you tell us what you have been watching slash readings enjoying lately. Nice. All right. Well, I've been one thing I've been watching the I I've been watching with Emily for a little while. Now is this show called the Orville? Do you know that word of it? Yeah. Oh, man. Okay. With seven Farland. Sure. Is it sure is and as someone with pretty mixed feelings about family guy and Seth MacFarlane in general. I I also have mixed feelings about the show, but we have been watching it. And so, and it's kind of become pretty good at a lot of ways. Even when it's not, I don't know. I figured I would just mention it because I've been sort of fascinated by it in this weird way. So the Orville spirit, and that would be my first question. The absolutely not no, not even remotely. In fact, it's it's ridiculously. Generous and warm hearted. It's a very interesting because there is kind of bounce off family guy after a while. Because it just felt so mean and Senate, Shirley, that's definitely one of the reasons I don't like that show, and it also just takes kind of weird stances problematic stances on things whatever their his not aged well for me sort of similar to south park different. But similar in some ways, anyways, the Orrville. So the Orville is like clearly MacFarlane rate. This is a guy who created the family guy. He's a very brilliant person. Like he's like he has a lot of talents. And and is very smart, and he is a huge nerd, and like loves Star Wars and Star Trek and stuff there, these he'll do tributes to any loves Broadway. Musicals he's very intellect than she did a whole family guy that was an hour and a half recreation of the entire rowers. Actually, I've seen some of one of them. And it was at the very least extremely impressive. Wanted to them. I'll say that much for this. Exactly. So the Orville is a Star Trek spoof. Or at least it started kind of spoof in various very uneven totally in the first season. It's all over the place like it's really funny one minute, and really heartfelt the next minute. And there's a lot of stuff that's sort of typical Seth MacFarlane ish. It's like hard to separate him from the show. And there are things about that are annoying, but as time has gone on it's kind of become just like another Star Trek show, and at this point watching it just sort of feels like watching Star Trek, and as I've mentioned many times we've also been watching the next generation from the beginning. And it's very interesting watching them both at the same time because they've built a show out of the same architects. You know, there's the the robot character, and there's the alien tough guy character, and there's the captain and the number two and in this case, the captain, the number two are I guess ex husband and wife, and so that's sort of different complicating factor anyways. It's but they've had a run of a few episodes. There was this two parter episode about this. Robot race that was kind of just great. And we were watching it. I was like this is just a really entertaining scifi like they're totally times where something will happen. People make reference modern references kind of modern humor in it. And those women stick out more and more as it just feels like I'm watching it kind of kind of a B minus plus scifi show. So anyway, I don't know I figured I'd at least mentioned it. It's not like my favorite show or anything. But I've sort of been enjoying it. Another thing I have been listening to an audio book of the Michael pollen book, how to change your mind do either of the two of you know, this plant heard of it. Yeah. So Michael pollen is the author of on Moore's dilemma in the botany of desire. He's a really good writer and sort of he's he's like science journalism and this book is about psychedelics. And so it's I'm only a few chapters into it. But it's it's kind of about this new resurgence in medical research into psychedelics and into the effects that they have on the on the mind, and this whole new sort of trend in that way. And I've been listening to the audio book. The book is is really really interesting all of his stuff is always really interesting. I don't I haven't read the whole thing. So like, I don't have a lot of thoughts on that. But the experience of listening to an audio book has been really cool. I've been feeling pretty burned out on politics lately. Maybe unsurprisingly, and I listened to a lot of political podcasts. But I've kind of been cutting more and more of those out of my diet. But I miss having something to just listen to when I'm going around the house and doing chores or out on a walk, so actually listening. I haven't ever gotten into books on tape in this way. But listening to him just reading the book has been really cool. So it's almost more that the experience into. Book on tape than the book itself. The book is very very interesting. And we'll see I'm curious to finish it. And then the last thing is I've been rewatching the anime kids on the slope, which maybe I'll talk a little bit more about when I do my knees effect. But that's so is just wonderful. And hopefully, people listening know, how wonderful that show isn't. It's been really nice to watch it again. We'll talk about that more with the music pick. So that's it from me. Isn't that sounds like a a pop punk like EMA ban? What's the name of the pop punk EMA band? Kids on the block is not new kids on the block. Yeah. The pop punky mobile new kids on the block now. No, isn't there? Another one kids. I mean kids on the slope is not the name of. It's just a slice of life kids. Probably not we. Probably not we in the hall hall. Kid based monikers clearly TIMMY kids, Mattie. What about you? What are you watching so Kirk recommended this previously? But I finished watching all Penn. Fifteen with my girlfriend is it's so funny to remind everybody this is to adult women comedians, but playing themselves in seventh grade with a bunch of seventh grade actors around them, and that's funny in and of itself, but also the writing of these episodes it's like set in the nineties, I guess because they have AOL online. Yeah. I don't know if they actually say what the year is that Seddon, but it's it's of either the late nineties early two thousands time, and it's funny. But it's also a show where you just like scream in second hand embarrassment slash horror at everything that's being shown to you. So it's like a weird recommendation to give I'm like this show made me so physically uncomfortable. But also, I was like crying laughing at parts of it. So yeah, I don't know. I also a lot of it rang super true to my like teen girl experience. And it's it's nice to have show that has that. Because you know, there weren't there aren't always that many shows like that. So it's cool that that's a show that exists. And it's it's funny. The cringe factor is interesting. Because did you watch eighth grade that movie? No, I I really wanted to watch it. But then the more I heard about it the more. I was like I don't know if I can stand. Yeah. Same. We started watching it. And I was like I can't with this right now. A horror movie and. Harvey. You'll be okay. And telling me why why why can you stand? So it's great. It's about an eighth year. And it's just so real and hard. And she's so, you know, she's an eighth grader. I don't know it just captures the sort of mortifying harshness and just difficulty of being that age, and she is like the actress playing her. I mean, we were willing watch like twenty minutes, but she's just so vulnerable in great on screen. But like, oh my God. You're just heartbreaking for. So I've found that. At least what I've liked about ten fifteen is that because they're adults. They're having all this abuse heaped on those keeping it on one another and on themselves, but they are adults almost gives you a sort of a little bit of bulletproof vest or something like that. Yeah. Autobiographical? I think like the actors kind of playing versions of themselves, and that I think help some of it because it's like, oh, they have come to terms with these horrible things that have happened to them. And this is kind of their way of expunging that in some way, and it's Partick feeling to watch it because you're not just watching a kid have horrible things. Kind of processing ching talented comedians recount it for you and it out and. It's funny. The director of that movie Beaubourg him, I remember in two thousand seven or two thousand eight I would watch a lot of comedy central and his specials would always appear on such. And he. Songs that. Yes. You and I remember Levin still write songs. Yeah. We'll so. I remember always being underwhelmed by the comedians. They had on there except for Burnham. I remember every time. I'd see him on. It would be like, oh, I have this fantastic. He's great. Which is why I wanted to watch the movie, but I'm just like why am I going to? I recommend if people out there having haven't hurt like you like bovines newer stuff or seen him in something and liked him. You should go. Check out those music early music videos. Really cool. Yeah. So I just watched captain marvel on Sunday, which is pretty good. Oh, you haven't that. You're. Oh. You gotta you gotta horrible nominate. Yeah. I would definitely I'm obviously, we don't know what's going to be an adventures endgame. And I would definitely see this before value. One hundred percent. I really liked it. I didn't expect to like it as much as they did. I thought I would just think of it is just like another mediocre or just good quality, right? Marvel marvel that I actually really liked it. It's it's got this. Great nineties five to the thing. Great soundtrack great music. Great story. Ben Mendelsohn who is just one of the best actors working today. Yes. Just like, he steals the show and. He was the villain in rogue one. He was in bloodline most most notably. And I think he was in the in the dark Knight one of the dark. Knight movies, deducting rises or something. Like that. That's when you like I came on the scene from what I remember. But he's in this as the scroll, I guess, captain or leaders something, and he is fantastic. He just likes heels every scene. I actually it was a little disappointed by Brie Larson's performance. I thought it was kind of just like whatever the writing was an exactly great. I would say the line delivery wasn't quite up there with the best marvel movies, but I really liked it. I really like the story. I really liked watching captain marvel fly around and be a bad ass. And I really enjoyed it. Many right? Yeah. Yeah. I talked about it on this show. But in very vague terms. I think I said I thought it started really slow and got better as it went along. I feel like a soon as they get to planet earth and they're doing all the nineties stuff. It's. Yeah. Way more fun movie, but they have a lot of setup with the aliens. And the circumstances captain Marvel's current situation. And it gets a little bogged down in in that I think, but yeah, the movie has a lot of really strong aspects that I think helped make it work. But yeah, yeah. And kind of piecing together who she is is really cool. Right. Yeah. I think about the nineties I was thinking about how horsemen does the nineties where it's like fade up nineteen ninety four and someone saying, wow, it sure is nineteen ninety four and then a whole bunch of nineteen Ninety-four references or have. Yeah. Basically does. But it doesn't have generic nineties song like. As an actual generic ninety song. But yeah, same. Yeah. It's making me really excited for avengers. Because it's it's got setting up a couple of things. And I think the is the event the end of ventures Infinity war where the tease the beeper right calling her. So. Yeah. So yeah. Cool. Good movie excited for that. And Samuel Jackson. Also, great and look super young somehow they made him. Young and stuff. It was on candy when that's Robert any actually look that uncanny, and captain marvel better. Were they all their money because some of the fight scenes. I was like these don't look that good. But you know, what the young affiliation affects? They look great. So great. Yeah. No, totally. And also something that's cool about it is that they set up captain marvel as like one of the most powerful superheroes in this universe. Anything? Really interesting try to con her in. I mean, I don't hate it. But I also just like what if you guys put this out ten years ago? What if you just gone ahead and had this character the tire time making a movie and being like, remember the nineties? Okay. So she was there, and she's actually time and she's powerful. Now, you've met her. And it's like all right guys. I guess that's a comic book thing for her being gone. The whole time is ridiculous because. Let's say on the whole time. She hasn't been the whole. All right. But it makes sense because it's like well. All right. I won't get into. There's some when you really think about it doesn't make sense why she wouldn't have. Doesn't. Yeah. But no. But I think it's really interesting just like in terms of thinking about like, okay, how are the events of of injuries endgame gonna unfold that suddenly they bring in this the superhero who might be more powerful than any of them like certainly up there with or in terms of just like God like powers, so that'll be really cool to see. Also, I gotta say finally marvel like movie that stars a woman, which is cool finally. And yeah, just a good movie. Just a solid movie. I would say all right. I think that's it. Kirk wanna give us your music pick of the week. I'll write this music pick of the week will tie in with kirks animate pick of the week. Also is also the strong sun for this week's John's back dot com. Check it out. The this is a jazz. Tune from nineteen fifty eight reported in nineteen fifty eight released in nineteen Fifty-nine by artfully he and the jazz messengers. This is a tune called Monin that some people may not know by name, but probably know by Pino riff, so I'll just play a little clip from the beginning of the song. So this is a well known jazz. Tune it's it's written by Bobby Timmons. Actually, the piano player, which I guess is fitting because he starts with it. And also plays a really crucial part in kids on the slope, which is cool. So on the strong songs episode. I get into the whole thing is the first jazz song ever done, which is a little interesting. We'll see if people I think people like the idea is that it's it's giving people more tools to listen to jazz. It's a little different than the other episodes. It's less. Here's what they're doing here. And he's doing here in more. Here's how this works. And here's why this works that way. So it'll be cool. Yes. Hey, hey, Kirk. Yeah. You're gonna do it. It's it's all of the tools. You don't have it is. It is true true. You gotta work with you got to work with the space in between the tools the important thing. So anyways in kids on the slope, which I've been rewatching is this wonderful wonderful show. This is from the director and musical a lot of the people who made cowboy bebop made this, which is it couldn't be less. Like how about in every way except that? It's got a lot of jazz in it. But it's the sort of slice of life. One off like single season anime about nineteen sixty six sort of rural town in Japan and these characters who are on high school together sort of senators onto young men who kind of become friends through jazz. And then the people they play with and other people in their lives, and it's really really cool, and it just more than almost anything I've ever seen as a couple of movies that are out there too that actually like were made by jazz musicians and and capture it in jazz, totally legit. And the whole thing is real the only thing about on this a little not legitimate. How good they are really really good at jazz. I've never heard a fifteen year old. That's that could Chas. But but so the, but whatever it's more fun to watch really good jazz players and the show is great. And this song plays a really important role. It's the name each episode is named for jazz. Tune the first episode is called Monan, and it starts as great scene where the drummer is sort of showing the piano player, and he's in the piano players like, no, no, that's not how you play the piano part. He plays it. There's a whole discussion about swing and he's like you're not swinging. Then you're not doing it. And then the song keeps coming up through. The show throughout the season. And they're just a couple of really important kind of character moments built around that peon apart in then playing it together, and like a couple of really cool part. So I liked that that this song is this kind of also this sort of Lynch pin for this really really good anime that I hope people watch on Hulu and crunchy roll. I think you can it's really easy to find it. So that's cool to song is great fun to talk about anime is also really good, and yeah, those are my knees related recommendations for this week. Nice. Thank you for that. And I think that is it for this week's show we will be back next week same bat place same bat channel now. Same bat time there you get it wrong. O'shane's is same time. Same split channel seem like. I will see you guys. See by. Could talk split-screen isn't official podcast of Kentucky dot com. It's produced by Jason schreier. Mattie Myers in me Kirk Hamilton. I had it mixed the podcast and also wrote and performed our theme song and other music. We're a part of the fusion podcast network where Monday to move feeds. Executive producer of audio. You can find us on popular podcast services like panoply NPR one Google play and apple podcasts. And we hope that you'll leave us a review if you like what you hear final episodes that could talk dot com slash split-screen. Email us at split-screen at Kentucky dot com.
The Hardest Things YOU'VE Ever Done In A Game
"Welcome Dr Doc. You split screen the video game. PODCAST wishes they'd kill off a few more corporate mascots. It's January twenty third two thousand twenty and we've got a reader mail spectacular for you this week. I mentioned league over the gains. We've been playing from pokemon shields played tail innocence. And some of my final spoiler free thoughts on Disco Louisiana then opened the mailbag to read a bunch of our listeners. Hardest one gaming aiming achievements with tales from Ninja Guidon destiny hollow night astral chain left for dead in Tarzan the video game. Yes Tarzan the union. Because I with another movie. PODCAST recommendation condition some thoughts on uncut gems. James Cameron's Avatar. It's going to be a fun one. Stick around and welcome back to Kentucky split-screen. My name is Kirk Hamilton. I'm so glad that you're are here. I'm also so glad that my co host is here. That Co host of course is maddy. Myers hello matty Hello Kirk. It's me nice to see and it's only me me that is that's all you get today. That's true so for the next few weeks Jason. China of course is on a leave. He's finishing his book and taking care of his child and living. His distractions no distractions from either of those things noting. This show saying he is distracted by you know like maybe deming us about yeah. No that definitely hasn't happened. We haven't heard from him. It's like John Vanish from the face of the earth. So it's you and me this week. We're doing split-screen. We'll I'll have some guests on. I think over the next few episodes though. We're going to be reading a bunch of listener emails on this episode. which fun be great it is it is going to be great eight you guys yeah? Listeners had a lot of a lot of tales of triumph triumph versus the mall. I'm really excited for them sarcastic. But it's not it was very uplifting to read all these emails so they were good. Hopefully we'll get through all of them on the show but that is for later. First of all we're GONNA talk about the game. We're playing but first a few things did you see. Did you see that Mr Peanut died. I did I did see that. I didn't see anything else about it but I did see that Mr Peanut died and I don't know all right I I you know I so I don't like Mr Pena. I realized this when I saw this I just never liked the guy with this fucking monocle. He just seems kind of like Lord of industry or something right right right. Yeah Down Down with Mr Peanut right dad with brands and their marketing schemes. Exactly what Kirk Hamilton says to all of this. That's me me and I kinda class. They don't believe in the system man. I think this is weird I'm curious now. It raises some questions. This is going to be an answer. Apparently the super bowl I did see. There's a tweet from Patrick Monahan. That's been going around on twitter. Saying Mr Peanut isn't hell. He spent decades as a smiling face of a company that sold the boiled interested corpses of his his people as a snack which is fair. I think accurate so there is that it's always it's it's like how the EMINEM EMINEM's properly terrified at the prospect of it. Don't don't ask me to cite that in any way I couldn't like give you an example of how that's that's true but there's just have an aura about them that says no they're doing it under duress whereas Mr Peanut seemed really happy about Asian anytime the mascot for a thing is the thing that you're going to be eating like this is like A. Oh man okay. I'm thinking this through. I feel like there are M ads. Where the EMINEM 's get scared of being eaten which sort of perverse like whoever pitched that ad campaign must've been like? Don't worry it'll work people don't think about it too hard and they'll still have. Im's uh-huh but I'm thinking about that Chick-fil-a like ad campaign where the cows right where the cows. They're not eaten. Yes yeah man. ADS are weird. You know we could just have a whole show about how weird ads are weird as especially ads for food. I'm wondering what other brands might die like. Do you think that. Like sonic or Mario uh-huh could die. Like Nintendo could just announced Luigi died. I thought gee immediately that's true. You're wasn't technically intentional. That was like part. Take the advertising campaign for Luigi Manchester. It's just funny. And everyone seized upon it and talked about how Luigi so that was a AH chasing her an article right our our. AP Luigi whatever year to twenty one thousand nine or whatever. I don't remember when we was born. I'm sorry I haven't haven't memorized that. Fact isn't Nintendo hundreds of years old. So I think so I think Luigi is like many thousands of years old so it was actually quite sad when he died perhaps kind end of ageless major like an epochal shift early for everybody. I forgotten about Louis Dying. That's a very good point that's similar. There is some video game news. We should probably talk to. There's not a ton of news so we're GonNa talk about games and read. A read mails from people. A couple of pieces of news wellbeing piece of news is another big delay in that. Is that Dying light to again that I'm actually very excited for sequel to the very good dying late one one of those games that sort sort of flew under the radar but is like an excellent game. Just got better and better. Every time I was like for it is now delayed. I think indefinitely. They're just like it's not coming out guys coming coming out in the spring. This thing is hard to make. WE'RE NOT GONNA put a year on it. We're just going to say right. Wait wait for it. You know. It'll be good we promise so. That's another delay. It seemed like it does seem like this. Spring has kind of changed. Yeah like there was it. Was this vibe of like okay with cyberpunk especially hanging over everything this feeling of. Oh God we have this brief three month period to catch up on stuff we missed from last year and then I should just going to go crazy. And it's just GonNa be wild all the way until the Newcastle's come out at the end of the year. Yeah but now. It's maybe not so much that I mean final fantasy and it's kind of like well. Maybe it'll be chilly. Maybe we'll just play do maternal for a really long time really enjoy it really. Enjoy the heck out of Yeah I'm kind of on board with that with more time to play things like I'm enjoying already taking this time to catch up on things and save will be good and then final fantasy I was. It's just like a month and like they can take as long as frigging need on cyberpunk Jillian hours long. It is so yeah. I'm all right with that. I do want to point readers the to another article that will make them feel somewhat conflicted about their favorite hobby. Yeah which is sort of what we're all about here is split. Screen is both celebrating Games. And making you weird about him. The less cool things about how they're made on Jason Publish this good article before he left about crunch and delays days. And how. It's easy to look at a delay and think. Oh Great. Well that means they won't have to crunch and there have been times where I'm thinking. I think maybe Bungee did this. And I don't know if this is like true or not in this specific case but we're developers will say over delaying the game because we don't want to kill all the workers getting done for this but the the truth matter is really that in a lot of cases Jason points out in this article and all the people talk to link this and shuts. It means. You're going to crunch for like this whole in been crunching to try to make the deadline. And now you're gonNA bring you. which is you've yeah so so you know? It's not as simple as that. Obviously also not everyone crunches the same and they're probably times where they say no. We really do want you to not kill yourselves doing this. So hopefully you know as well hopefully what becomes okay for delays to last longer I guess could crunch less even while they're trying to continue to Polish game or maybe we all just accept that games take longer to make are more expensive to make as a result in. That's just not going to happen. That would mean games would be more expensive and that'll never happen. You know I think I started with hopefully maybe I can analysts on a more. No I tried to do it too. I can kind of get their weight. I can get there so so I do think okay. So as the as the audience of like just your average Gamer has has become more aware that a delay is a good thing like every time a game is delayed. Now I'll see people acknowledging like. Oh this is good. This will make better. That's not really tied to labor conditions or anything it's just like an acknowledgement that crunch there. Sorry that delay means the game is going to be better. That is like a shifting perspective among the general populace. And that's nice to see. I would agree with that. As opposed to just the disappointment appointment that I feel like I used to see it would just be like Oh really changed so if that can shift may be other things can shift as well like it is. It's nice nice to see changes any point because I think the way we think about and talk about the way these Games are made is probably doesn't need to change does need to be something. More people are aware of so. That's helpful and and a good article to read so go check out Jason's article about that and one other piece of news. And that is that there is a witcher anime movie coming out on Net flicks and it just discussed about it. You haven't watched the witcher yet. I haven't yet I I would like to. It's good you know why. Why have it be an anime? Why that why? I think it's going to be like a standalone thing like it's just a movie and the show is so good. Why not have it be different? The thing that's animated right. I think the since the show is basically adapting the books and is kind of doing like an existing stolen imagining at some point. They'll go off on their own thing but right. Now they're just book adaptations. I think the movie is going to be a whole original story. Totally separate from the hilarious in and of itself. It's like well we just adapted the witcher. What if we adopted it again in a completely different format but like right away like we're not gonNA wait a couple years? Apparently it's this huge hit for Netflix. Like watching it and people are like. It's like one of their most I think they said it's like their most successful original premier ever which is cool I disliked that the witcher this like ultra through a nerdy thing that I'm really into is now like suddenly in the case like yeah everyone's talking about it like people are really into it and that makes me very happy. They actually released the Song I put. The I played this song. Toss a coin to your which are like gestures behind when I was talking about that last last night but that's is frigging total earworm. It gets smash hit. Everyone is saying yeah including me and I haven't even seen the show catches song and it gets stuck in your head forever. Tosa coin to your which o'malley of Bull Valley you've plans. Oh Toss to coin to your whole valley. It's like in my head right now. They finally just put it out on streaming services so it's like on spotify and apple music which it's amazing. It wasn't ready to go. They didn't know they didn't know they had head on their hand ad. which is the minute I heard that Song Banger? This rate hike. Why can listening to the crappy low resolutions on Youtube Youtube? Yeah I'M GONNA say I'm GonNa say one piece of criticism of the recording kind of wish. They'd remixed it because I do think the vocals Kinda get lost behind the other instruments Once they all come. I'm in this weird like it's I think it's because it's the same mix that plays on the show. Yeah but they should have panned things would have been cooling her like a studio mixed. Because he's he's got a lovely voice the actor who plays Chaska and like he just he just kind of gets lost in the second half and that's when the song is really rocking to and I'm like bring it up bring up so maybe they'll remix sitters. Maybe they'll put out the stabs uh-huh and people can do as opposed to the fan released. Folks it is such a funny function that that because that's on wasn't on spotify and apple if you look on spotify there's like six thousand covers of it like everyone who does covers video-game songs is that there's so many versions of it. There's like a heavy metal version and like all these different people. That Guy Peter Hollins is like has a Cappella version all these versions and it's really hard to find the original because the search results. But I'm sure now it's rocketing to the top of the charts because I'm sure sure I'm sure because people love it. It's a great song okay. So let's let's let's get into the Games. Were playing I. I played a few and I think you go I. I'll go first so I finally tried out. Poke them on shield of pokemon sword and shield fame playing the one with the shield in it or the one where the POK mon dog dog. Legendary pokemon dog has a shield. This game is cool it. It's weird to be playing it now. Many months after all of the controversies about the game unfolded which take s I'll recap and knows nothing at all about these controversies so this game does not have every single. Poke them on that has ever existed in Pokemon game. mm-hmm in it. They're just not all their phone. I is that that's a first for the series. I could be wrong about that but I think in the past passed it. They're always all their or their all. The important ones are there. It is controversial that many especially very well known poke him on or not not in this one and instead there are a whole bunch of other totally new. Po came on in it that are pokemon from the gala region. which is like this fictional sort of UK? Okay ask region where your characters from and it's kind of like you know pokemon Scotland and. You're you're going around meeting completely new. Poke them on. And it's adorable but you can't go around and catch a scored alert. Whichever ones aren't in it and that's wrong? That upsets people and so there was this huge controversy Chrissy for a while with this game where people were very upset that not every single pokemon ever was in it and last month I think the they announced that they would be putting out a deal. See soon that will include allowing pokemon and some other stuff except you do have to either your pay for the D. L. C. More trade with other people who have been as poke Amman in order to get everything and so. That's kind of a controversy. But it's also kind of a redemption story where people are reacting to the game now by being like well. Maybe now I'll get it now that I can actually have all the poke him on that. I feel that I'm owed food and I've been watching that from afar and the other thing that's happened with this game is that people have analyzed it. A lot from the vantage point of is the game good enough to merit the fact that not every single poke him on is in it because it was like a trade off right them right was like well the game is going to look look very good. Look better than other POK MON games or better than other procam on games and other respects and we're just really focusing on making sure these new pokemon look good. Then that's what we're prioritizing in terms of development time and that meant that there were a lot of people who analyze this game very intensely tensely and we're like it's not good enough to make up for the fact that not all. The POLKA monitor in there does this have enough objective quality points for the number of Pokemon. That are Mrs so I went into this game. I didn't realize I was doing this but I went into this game. Assuming it was going to be bad like I didn't think I was doing that right but I realized that so much. That had permeated me that my expectations were on the floor for this game. And so as a result I actually think it's amazing incur. Nice standards should have been seeing like angry youtube videos being like the graphic sock in this game like it looks like Shit and and so I'm planning on like looks really good like this like you're you like the first things you do. Are you and your rival. Get lost in this relief. Foggy argued forest for a while and it looks gorgeous and there are these trees that look amazing and like usually you don't have cool background in game three yes or something right. Yeah I think you just don't really have that but now it's on the switch and I mean pokemon. Let's go is on the switch. But he played that recently. It didn't look back better where the houses are so adorable. They're like little gingerbread houses. And you're like walking around Scotland. There's a little castle and the castle is like a polk Amman Center. And you're like Oh yeah fire in Scotland there like a castle. That would be a focus on Saturday. That's I don't know I'm I'm loving it and I guess it's just if you go in and with really low expectations you can really really enjoy pokemon game but the other thing is that. I'm also realizing that I like it that I don't know. Oh who any of the POKEMON are like almost every pokemon that you meet so far anyway and I'm only a few hours in is pover- seen in my life before like it's a lot of like new ones and I'm like that's fun. I don't know what these guys do. I don't know what their attacks are going to be. Like and like how they're gonNa work and that's fun to me and I'm not sad just not sad about any any of the same thing you've played pokemon. Do you have like a polk him on that you love. That's kind of always your go-to I guess. I you know when I was a kid. I was into into peak at you and charter manager because I was a child and I watched the anime and I was like they're cute and I'm just like etch catch and I'm eleven years old or whatever so like that matter to me on some level but as an adult I'm just like I don't have a favorite pok on really. They're all very cute. The point is just. You're collecting collecting things. And you're looking at your shiny digital collection and being like a high of now collected all of these freshest items don't really matter and so I don't I don't I don't I just don't have the same feelings about pokemon that other people do. It's also been years since I've actually beaten Pokemon game so like what I do is like it's like the perfect game for like you're listening listening to a podcast in the background or you're watching. TV Show in the background. Then Mount of brain power. That you need for Pok Mon is right if if you're me if you really want to math it out and like you know use your statistician powers than you can make pokemon very difficult and impressive for yourself myself. But I've never played it that way. It's just like the dopamine rush of collecting stuff for me and and that's it so so I have a couple of questions or one of first of all. I know the answer to this question. But I'm going to ask you. What is the name of the controversy related to the POLKA DEX? It's called decks it. Yes so I've been thinking about this because it was called degs because the polkadot Franks it right and then I've been thinking about how you know. How like Prince Harry and Meghan Markle or leaving the royal family and that's all it is this like the way that Watergate now? Everything is a gate everything remotely related to the the UK has to some exile question so my question is twofold one. Is it just that anything related to something. Leaving will now have like a briggs it joke or is it that because this is sort of set in a pokemon version of the UK. It feels more appropriate to call the Dick's I think it's both like it's a a double whammy but it's also just horrible but that is the name that people have chosen because Brexit is like this political just should be really like. I don't know how else to describe that. It's very sad to look at the politics of that and the POLKA decks getting smaller is I mean for some some people it is a tragedy on a similar scale and to those people. I hope you're okay but I don't it is I can't really I tell if it's a joke. I mean I think that's the other problem with knowledge. Graefin rewrote some pretty great articles about Pokemon. After it came out and she wrote one about degs it and and just basically about article Nicole was like her listing off a million other things about the game. That are really enjoyable and then like some other things that are worth complaining about. That don't have anything to do with the bookie decks and just being like. Can we replace talk about any other things that happened in this game other than simply the fact that the POLKA DOTS is smaller than it has been or even smaller than you expected it it to be. I don't even think it's smaller than previous games. Because they've added all these other new Pokhran so that even that measurement of it is sort of absurd but yeah. I don't know oh I guess I've just been thinking about it. In relation to Jason's article about delays too. Because after the deal was announced a lot of people were like well. Why didn't they just say this all all along that they were GonNa make this Chelsea and that eventually all the pokemon would be added and I don't know the right answer is to that like with things have been different if people knew all along that there was going to be a DLC DLC a few months later but that they would have to pay extra for it like who knows it strikes me as one of those can't win scenarios? This is interesting this is this is a tangentially and generally related but this reminds me of the thing that just happened in destiny. which is this gun that everybody solved this big puzzle to get and I promise there's going to be a parallel here? Sanjay anyway to destiny so it. Was this really wild puzzle that everyone was trying to solve like on the level of like outbreak. Perfect outbreak prime. Some of these really crazy like there. It's like a puzzle labyrinth literally hundreds of thousands of people have to crowd source to solve and it took like a week and then when they solved it. They unlike this exotic a fusion rifle I think and it's a gun that was on the calendar for the game so people knew it was coming and then that made it just kind of disappointing because there's like oh so we're just like unlocking a thing early that we already knew was coming instead of. Oh you know it's the middle class from your from the first game some really exciting surprise. It's a little similar more where it's like if you tell everyone what you're doing you lose a little bit of that narrative in that excitement but yeah what's coming within the also then they get expectations around it so I I don't know yeah like I wonder if game thought originally like Oh if we save this then people are going to be so excited when we announced the DLC being like oh all your old favorites are now going to be his game him. That didn't have them before. And like that'll be exciting for people but they probably didn't estimate just how many people would be as upset as they were about the initial roll out of the game so lessons learned. I guess but I don't know the lessons exactly were other than that. Sometimes people who like gave get upset about things the are hard to understand and that is hard to predict. And you're doing game marketing kind of feel for you because I don't know how you wiggled this one well anyway. Skirt sounds like it's fun. Do you think you'll finish this one. I don't know probably not. I'm enjoying it though sell products player for a while. We'll see we'll see how I do. I do still want to be disco alesia which I hear the you have is that it. Okay okay finished it. We're going to do a spoiler on it when you finish. You can take your time because we want Jason to be here for it too so it won't be for a few more episodes played pokemon. Oh come on because I was like Jason I thought about it though then I was i. I've had this kind of soft rule of playing game to completion before going to another one and I didn't WanNa whatever I'm just gonNA stick with that it's been good. I'm going to stick with it so I decided to finish it but yeah I might have to start a new game. Maybe here's something before Jason comes back just so that I kind of get it back in my ahead like that game has a certain rhythm to it and it's so dense I'm already you know there's so many things I've forgotten from when I played it because I'd seen playing it more recently than you and there are things in the world of that game that I barely understand it takes like if I played it a second time I might finally understand the politics of revenue. Call Reva Jack or like the the religion like. Who's Doris Day and this they've really done some real building? There's the amount of world building that game is crazy so I guess I'll give some quick impressions and that that it's amazing. We already know that this game is is great and I really loved it. I loved the ending. I don't don't actually share I don't WANNA put words Jason's now but he was a little disappointed with the way that it ends is sort of not what he was expecting from a like mystery solving elving sort of point of view. And I'll be really vague here. Don't worry no spoilers But I actually really liked it. I thought the ending worked very well. For what the game was and and I think it just sort of revealed what the game really was to me in a way that I thought was really cool. Someone I was talking about this on twitter. Someone pointed out to the obsolete. New are first and foremost. It's more Dr. And it follows the big sleep and brick the idea of the story kind of just happening to the protagonist and the mystery unfolding unpredictable ways which is sort of like north the way that subverts the idea of law and order style. Who done it? The Christie whodunit. Where you're just like piecing together clues and solving a mystery? It's not that it's is totally. Not actually that interested in like who killed the guy like. That's not what the game's about and this has to have been in a review somewhere but my thing is like it's not the WHO done it. It's a WHO am I like the question that it's asking which is like the kind of thing right that a game like it is is true of the game and I think that there are a lot of times where I'll be like well. What was the deal with that character? And then I'd be like I need to think of this more on a metaphorical like literary level and and then I'm like. Oh okay totally. I understand why this character exists. This character is because they represent something out in you there a reflection of the protagonists of Harrier whatever every decide to name him and yeah. It's a great game one of the great protagonists like video games. Ever just because you can make him into so many people but he's also so defined signed by his own psychological trauma in real life like he's very specific character but also someone that you can make into whoever you want and also Kim Serology his partner is such a good character. Like it's great. His presence in the game is just fantastic. Got It so good. So I'm really excited as you. A spoiler cast. I think we'll probably talk I. I could talk forever about the scheme but I'll save the rest of it for them so now that I finished that. Let's so I have been. I've been SORTA breaking my rule little by playing a little bit more of the witcher three. I just kind of been. I'll just be like I'm bored. I have twenty minutes to his side. Quests in this game I've been playing that game playing more Gwen Kinda like wrapping up the part on Skela. Go where you're figuring out. Who is going to be the next ruler of Scalia? The answer to that is serious. Obviously anyone who's played the game will know why that's true but I need to make sure that she gets you know gets to take over Won Only one observation in that game and that's the difficulty has gotten really weird because I'm on new game plus level scaling early on enemies and the difficulty in that game gets kinda weird anyways like it's really hard to find a difficulty setting that works right like I'll take a ton of damage if I get hit I'm playing on the second earnhardt blood and broken bones but then I do so much damage with my sword. It's like I have the most up to date which is just like one. Hit almost everything to hit these. He's all like do a big which contract and it's this huge lesson like this crazy. Woodland Monster comes and I'm just like each hid is doing a giant chunk of its health and I kill it in like five of seconds and I'm like well that was sort of antics so what I've done is I've gone and gotten old swords like out of storage from before new game. Plus I'm I am using those. And they do like way less damage and it Kinda works. Sound like wearing up-to-date arms. I take less damage but the swords are weaker. And it's kind of like I'm paying reversed I do's for using the infinite the infinite knife in resident evil now like okay. Yeah you're making the game harder for your sexy civic way right using being like tools. which is? I don't know it's kind of an interesting thing that you have to do that. Game has weird difficulty stuff going on fully hard to find a good balance. That's working working. Yeah but it's still a good game and the witcher man so hot right now Okay so then. The other thing the thing I've been playing that's new that I can tell people. Some impressions of is a plague tail innocence. So what do you know about this game. I'm curious a little bit. I mean you talked about it last week and branch a couple articles on Kotoka dot com about what it's it's like we all call it the gross rat game. That's what we call it. Yes kind of. It doesn't really serve the game well to call it back because it's also like a dramatic tragic intense feelings game. It's actually a pretty accurate to describe. Rat game is it's brand so they are and that's that really is because that's the thing that the game has got to me feels like the most defining in new aspect so yeah let me read the rats. They're in dishonored other games. Have this now. This is a little like. It's a little like dishonored. But you haven't seen rats rats like flow like water. I mean there are thousands and thousands and thousands of they're disgusting and and that is definitely the thing that we're we're never there's rats you're like okay this is it doesn't like So I'm kind of medium on it actually. I like it fine. Finish it but I'm not it's there are some something's about it that I am not as much as I thought I would but just given that I know some people would be like. Oh this is a low key one of the better games with last year. So what is your playing a girl. Oh she's like a like a teenager maybe in The fourteenth century in France. She's like a noble family and There's a weird monstrous kind of plague outbreak. And she and her little brother who's like five or six wind up on the run and it's a very bleak very dark it kind of story about them just doing whatever they can to survive and trying to figure out what's going on and it's like a science fiction fantasy rat plague realistic stick grab plague. It's yes fan yet. There's a fantastical element to it. And I don't fully know because I haven't finished it but like these rats like they're more they burst out of the ground like the locust horde like they're like they're and all these mechanics built around the rats but it's yeah and it's tied to your bloodline and there's some light curse like so there's stuff that's it's beyond just this isn't just like a gritty story of the actual great like but it's definitely like inspired by the actual plague. I I would imagine the people who made it did a lot of research and are like trying to accurately tell the story of the great playing and all these people who died and all the things that happened. There's a lot of imagery like recently. I went through a whole area where he was dead livestock everywhere. And it's really disgusting Lake pools of blood that you're like walking through and because they killed livestock because is the right was spreading through them yet. So it's got a lot of that imagery though. The story is like a fantastical adventure gameplay wise. It's mostly stealth game. There's some non-self but you're kind of sneaking sneaking around. You can't fight 'cause your kids and so like if you get spotted if a guy gets to you you're just dead so there's a lot of sort of you have a weapon. You have like a sling so you you can kill guys without a helmet on them. But it's got that very like you're only killing a few people at takes the killing very seriously. At least at first she's like Holy Shit. I killed a guy. It's it feels a little like the last of us in terms of tone. Also because you're you're you're holding hands with your little brother the whole time and you have to actually command him and keep him in place and then send it to do things and you get people will come help you out. So it'll be a team of three kids and you're like go over there and hold that lever while I hold this thing and like open this pathway. It is an interesting I game. It's very linear so far. And that's something that I love about it. It's like it feels very scripted. I haven't come into circumstances where I'm like. Oh there's a lot the different ways to tackle this which is usually what I like about. Stealth Games is because a self games at neutral in your outside of the system you can kinda poke and prod at it and move things around sounded like more about being outside of a neutral system than like call of duty where like this is really active in shooting it. You just have to get through it. This game is very just like okay here we are are. There's a torch here that guy is standing in the rats. You need to like distract him to the right and then go around to the left and like we've played some rocks for you right here because you're gonNA need Iraq to distract him. There's only one way to go around matter of waiting. The animations out or whatever right and the patrols are very okay exactly you wait. The end missions out a lot. So it's like okay. I can just tell her that guy's going so that's been a little disappointing only because the actual game play. I'm pretty checked out like I'm kind of just like this is easy. There's nothing to it the story's pretty pretty good like it's a little bit. What's the word I would use like like misery porn or something like it has a lot of like you're seeing really awful shit like just there's like you'll pull the door and the door open this? All these dead animals like come falling through it in a pile and there's like Gore and blood everywhere and then your characters are like crawling through the mud and they're just like Arkalyk in everyone's so it's Kinda got that really gnarly thing but it feels a little exploitative like I'm not offended by anything I'm feeling it's trying really much. It's trying really hard. Yeah it's like Oh look how fucked up everything is. I'm like But it's nice and the acting is good and it's very very earnest heartfelt. That's a cool story The thing is the rats though. This game could be a last June game and a lot of ways it feels like it's probably made on a pretty limited budget. It's it's really nice looking but like the environments are smaller very linear like. I said there's just not a lot of complex a or anything going on. This could probably have run on like an xbox three sixty or a PS three except for the rats and the rats are like definitely you can see this game and like someone made a prototype the rats and they were like this shit's Zan. Yeah exactly and Because it's totally the thing where the minute they come out and they like moving to see and it's like so gnarly looking at it they just look really cool and there's a billion of them and there's all these mechanics built around the rats will kill you instantly if a touchy but you have to like hold light so then there's all these mechanics where like you'll have a tourist with the torch burns out you need to delight whatever stocks of hey but the of burned down so you need to move faster and then you can light like a sort of hanging thing planes we have to swing it and then it swings in the light moves in the rats like go flying out of the way the lights and then you have to run underneath with the light to keep the rats from you so you can kind of use your imagination puzzle design you can and I watched Ratatouille you recently such a cool movie and one of your sympathetic to the rats now like one of these rats could have been Francis Greatest Chef Jeff. We'll never know because we're killing them. All Geez just think I mean anyone can cook even. It's so horrible. Plague murder ads but it does. This sounds really cool and I like that. They make the rats kinda gross in those scenes. Where like a sea of rats kind of goes through the kitchen? And you're like look like in the beginning when she the lady shoots the ceiling down on the ball and MILLION RATS so nasty like this game captures that feeling that. It's EXC run away and they're really like agro monster rats Kinda like their little but they're really aggressively move really fast and they're unpredictable and that's all really really cool and I feel like whoever made that work like definitely was onto something I I wish the game was just a little more open ended. That's mainly my complaint. It's just like I wish it felt a little more Yeah like there. Was this more thought involved in actually playing it. But it's it's fun to see the rats you know. Thought I'd say that about a game. I'm I'm going to finish it. I get the sense. It's kind of ten hour twelve hour kind of thing and it was like halfway through but I like it like I'm not crazy about it but I do like it and pretty cool. Oh all right. Well let's take a break and then we will read some listener mail about the hardest things. Our listeners have done in video games. Hello I'm Melissa Kirsch and I'm Alice Bradley. And we're the host of attackers podcast. The upgrade the upgrade is a show about all of the ways you can improve your life that means how to be happier and healthier more successful and more productive and just generally better in every way we talk about stuff like sex very few people are like please Jackhammer me for another forty five minutes psychedelics. You don't just go on the diving board when you're five years old and jump in the deep end because that would be traumatic and psychopaths giving you exactly what you need or want without. Maybe you being aware that you want it. You can find US wherever you get your podcasts breath all right and we are back so last week we got was this last week. Maybe two weeks ago on a previous episode episode time previously. I could talk you split screen and asked us what the hardest thing was that we'd done in video game and we gave some answers and then we asked all of you'd write us tell us and the hardest thing. Yeah that any of you have done and boy you came through. I think it turns out people like to talk about the hardest thing for video game last Bam plus station proud. It's great. We have a ton of emails. Here thank you. Everyone who wrote through wrote in. We're we're GONNA go through as many as we can. We might not get to all of them. If you're at any don't hear from us. We read all the emails. We couldn't respond to everyone because there were a lot but thanks so much for writing in and it was it was only fun onto your stories and this is actually about destiny. Which means I Kinda WanNa hear you read it Mattie? START US off. So this emails from Brandon who writes background INFO black spindle was an exotic sniper rifle with the white male perk industy. She got the weapon. You and your team of two others had to play a certain daily heroic emission which was only available one time in a rotation of many instead of finishing the mission normally normally you had to take an alternate path before certain door closed as you escaped the level wants through the door. You had ten minutes to clear three rooms of constant fallen enemies fonts aunts and boss that would pepper you with shots until you hit him enough for him to retreat to the next room. The first run was constant waves of fallen the second room had snipers captains pins and spider tank the third was room overfilled with ads and the boss driven chosen waiting to be killed. Even if you just kill the boss and if you didn't kill every last ad you've got nothing if the timer expires you got nothing. I can't tell you how many times both of these happened. I played so long. My regular fire team gave up and went to sleep. I continued trying the mission over and over with randoms for another five or six hours. Finally it was twenty minutes to the reset. I had no clue in the strike would come around as ROIC meaning. It could be weeks before another try. I played one last match with a couple of German guys who were waking up and playing the strike before they had to go to class. One guy didn't speak English so his buddy translated in real time as we thought we'd beat the mission with seconds to spare and less than a minute before reset. I tell people the proudest moments of my life where the birth of my two children but deep down I know they're really number two and number three. I love this story because I have this. I beat this. I think I wrote an article for talking. Do about this about the blacks middle. Tell Commission this exact mission which is so memorable to me as well as like brandon lays out exactly why so tell my story which is similar but but I will say yeah One friend of mine and I because I think that it was actually it scaled if you had two people or people so I think it was like it was doable with two because two US did it and I remember seconds left. I have a Gif of this and I was like at the boss with a sword. Swinging the sword at him and my heart was like dropping and I was like. Oh Oh my God and it was like we had three seconds left or something and he dies and like when he dies you get this amazing gun in it like drops into your inventory and it was. It was an incredible moment. And and yeah that really especially because like he says there's a weekly reset and if you don't beat it by then you don't know when you're GonNa get another shot and you're so invested because you've been trying it's like extra element makes it so much more stressful and awful thought. Amazing I mean that's like why the designed that way so that you get maximum stressed out and maximum psyched when you win. People still talk about blacks mental. That was definitely one of the greatest thing. Spongy is ever done in destiny. It was so cool like that it just without any fanfare this thing appeared. It's actually kind of because that gun was so exciting related super-secret people always want that high again and so when it's not as exciting reward. It's like okay. That wasn't that a school. Okay so look at this next section so we got several emails about Ninja Guidon and you and I talked a little bit about. Is it. Ninja Gaetan earnings guidance. We just don't know folks you can tell us the answer to that and I think it's Guidon but I don't know I think I think so too. That sounds cooler and I do feel like it does sound cooler. So let's go at that. I feel like it was like the kids who were cool and new stuff. When it was the thing would be would call an Ninja guidance and that was like that's what we'll call it Ninja Guidon so we have a bunch of emails here? I'm going to just kind of go through them and summarize them. Andrew writes that back in the day a he all of the original Ninja Guide for the XBOX for him. The hardest part was Alma. She's this demon who throws fireballs pills. Flying around says almost impossible to hit her. I I tried that bus two hundred times probably and just now is about to turn off the council never played again. I suddenly got in the zone and beat her with a significant amount of health left at the end of the fight after that the rest so the game was a comparative cakewalk. At this happens to me. Oh yeah like when you beat them your it looks like you're a frigging pro like don't even get hit like I feel like actor dying over and over and over again or or the situation where you're like. Oh I've just got to try this one more time and then for some reason that time it's easy or you've like giving yourself permission to stop. I playing the game. And that's what you need them do. Well anyway psychology of this is such an interesting party thing so I'll go through a few more of these also. This has beating Ninja Guide in an Xbox it was in many ways the precursor to secular. I think it was also. He doesn't say this but the precursor to neo also made that game but very similar J.. Also who says he is actually a different Ninja guidance. He says when he played for the any s this is Jay while we never beat it we did get to the final boss one day. The tragedy here wasn't that we lost the final bosses him and his friend play together. We would have expected that based on how hard the game was. Instead we pause the game and rand our friend and next door neighbor to show him the final boss. When we got back we found that our mom had turned off the game and change the cartridge to play? Tetris have no idea how five year old and eight year got. That guy didn't but I still feel like it was one of our biggest accomplishments and it took me a long time to get into tetris because of the incident. That's like the ultimate mom. Yeah it's funny that she turned it off to play a game though. That's very fake to me. She's like well. I WANNA play Tetris. I mean whatever his hard yeah. I'm GONNA play Tetris. I bought the Zinnias last. One comes from Georgia who also writes that his hardest moment in games would have to be Alma. Ah in the Vanilla version of Ninja Guide for the Xbox I got to the boss fight with one. Healing Item would probably need three to four. At least the original getting was very hard and not balanced. While in some areas it was laid. It was later balanced a bit injured in black but alma was one of the toughest boss battles I've ever fought. I walked away from the game for a month or two before coming back and committing myself defeating her. It probably took most of us Saturday or Sunday to finally get through her and her bullshit but it did fight but I finally did and it was one of those moments always remember and I've only follow similar way from the souls goals game ever since the souls games ever since Ninja got him. Black is one of my favorite games. Ever glad I got through that game and Vanilla and was ready for g black when it came out I have. I've seen aimed people discuss black versus Vanilla Ninja. Guidon I remember trying to get into it when I kind of I got back into gaming and I was like this I can't hang. I wonder if I'd like it now like now. It seems like it would be interesting for you to go back and try and now I was not at all of these emails. I feel like I'd be yeah. I'm good on this. I feel that way too. It's so fast I think it's it feel like I like neo and I liked the second row but there's so much faster than those games. I watch people apple play them unlike. Yo I can't I can't hang with this kind of game. Yeah why don't you are- Dave's email. I will this one reminds me of your witcher story from earlier. So that'll be fun Dave writes How about I scroll properly okay? Dave writes one of the hardest games. I've ever beaten is enslaved odyssey to the West on the hardest difficulty without upgrading. Any skills and without the use of monkeys long long range shot. I love this game but man it was easy so I played it on heart still too easy so I tried without any upgrades now. This was is getting somewhere then. I added the challenge of not using the long range ammunition which the game has many areas that are specifically designed for you to use a gauntlet of turrets proved especially difficult section. That required manipulating timing. On some of the turrets and perfect use of the regenerating shields there were one or two spots where the game makes you use the ammunition to open walter the next area or something but it was immensely rewarding to discover that the entire game can be completed without using one of monkeys two forms of attack. This is very funny to me and like this email very good. I love what I like is that he says at the end that he discovered this was possible so it was no going in and he's GonNa at work. This is the challenge people you know when they'll be like oh can you beat the game you know with whatever dark souls only punching and when you see someone to it once you have that knowledge the measure would make it easier. But if you didn't even know that would be pretty tricky. That's a game by the way. Enslaves I've always heard that I've always meant to check that out. It's neat it's like. It's it's the sort of oddly very good story adaptation of journey to the West rate. It's based on famous story. Yeah and like directed by Andy Circus. He yes Ashley Guy. It's it's an oddball Game Ninja theory like who made it. It's it's school. It's a yeah. It's like uncharted but good story. One of those games it didn't get a sequel that I'm like site. It didn't get a single. I feel like now people are no. Maybe there's no rumors I just saw someone talking about it online. Maybe like no no sequels. Let it be over. It's fine. It had a cool ending. It's fine all right let me read flakes. Email Blake writes. I achieved the nothing special achievement in the original left for dead on xbox three sixty the achievement requires you to complete an entire campaign with no survivors taking damage from any special infected. I'm sure there are ways to cheese now but my group of friends was going for legit and we would try several runs each night for for weeks. Sometimes we make it a few chapters in one person. We'll get scratched by hunter grabbed by a smoker. Or we get a horrid spot at the same time as tank one hit from any special effect in fact on any of your players required to restart also stressful things together. It was going and going really fast as what we found was the best way to do it. I still remember some of the insanely close calls. We hat on the run that we finally got love this so hard. I didn't know nothing special. Even an achievement is nothing special right and left for dead. What a good game wasn't there rumor? I think valve poured water on this that there was some really yeah. I didn't even hear that rumor so now I'm not disappointed. Disappointed that it's not true these left-footed to cool cool games. I'll read this next one. So Kenneth writes the hardest. The most rewarding thing I have done in gaming was beating the final boss in mega man. Zero on the gameboy advance. I was seven or eight at the time. This was the first and only game I had on the S P I I was trying to beat the final boss for days and finally was able to beat it at a barbershop waiting to get my haircut. I was overwhelmed once I beat it. There's just this pleasant. Simplicity to the sentence. I was is overwhelmed once I beat it. That just filled me with every feeling I had as a child whenever I like. Beat hard mario thing or whatever. The case may be just that overwhelm of like I don't even know what I feel right now this. I don't have that many Gabe I only have had. Yeah I like also picturing someone sitting at the barbershop like struck by this moment of most profound gaming moment ever while waiting to get their haircut. Yeah good all right. I'll read Greg's Greg's is about one of my favorite games of all time greats. I am cheating because we failed so this was not a gaming accomplishment but this is still the hardest thing Sue Greg writes I am cheating because we failed but my friend group was playing through a four player game of Devenir divinity original sin to on the hardest difficulty with permit death which is called honour mode. We played less than once a week for months until enact for someone turned valve to fill the room with death fog and ended the game. I do think getting that far is achieved enough. Though I I agree with you Greg Greg Rights. I don't think we'll have the patience to try again. But now in true frustrated dungeons and dragons player fashion we are playing we were playing as murder. hobos hardest difficulty not. There is no hard and fast rule but we are basically murdering everything in sight. How is this possible? Make no mistake. We are choosing hard cleared the first boat and are now working on for joy way. We will probably get soft lock soon but whatever my enjoyment of this multiple is on multiple fronts. First of all armadas crazy. That's like yeah if you die you're just dead and so hello and into this is fantastic. ISOMETRIC role playing game. I'm sure split-screen listeners. Know it but you can play for players and it's like going through a D. camping together. That would be a fun experience. I think even if you failed but the other thing I enjoy is that yet. This part of the appeal of this game is that you can. You can like approach you. You can come up with crazy broken builds and you can like really cheese it like you can isolate a boss and get them in a way that he can't even damage you kill him but that's kind of part of the fun of the game is like breaking it so light. They're like all right. Fuck this we're just GONNA murder everybody and until you come across. Yeah we're to exploit every possible like ability and we're just going to do so that seems like good a good way to kind of get some catharsis after randomly dying from death fog. which wasn't going to be that it was gonna be something else like? There's so much stuff like that. We cool all right so this next one is from me Guel. WHO's right? Who writes? I'm a fan of difficult games. Not because they're difficult. They just happened to be that way. Go back in the day. I played the original version of devil may cry three and I think it was pretty hard. I would agree with you. The most difficult thing I've ever played though et Cetera. I agree agree with Kirk. Junichiro is really hard and I think of him as kind of a threshold for the rest of the game but the final boss is in fact much more difficult the different phases the changing weaponry and attacks attacks. I think I achieved my quote unquote peak Gamer form during that fight and was able to beat it. I was even able to feel a fleeting sense of pride. It was so oh difficult that I don't think I'll ever be able to reach that level again. P. S. I'd like to say thank you to my girlfriend who saw me in that moment. Failure PECAN can can't reform movement and what what is the point of having a partner. Want you play a game. If they can't see you had peak game reform. I ask you that's true. That's true all the GonNa do this thing. I'm looking around because I feel like there was another email about that final boss fight and I wanna find all ever heard about and you'd never made it that far right. I also heard about how hard to find. Yes that was kind of why stop it. Got Really hard and I was like you know. What exactly doesn't let you do like the reason and this is? This isn't even like a confession but the reason I'm able to be like souls games is because I get so over level like the difficulty gets weird in those were they get easier in the second half because you can get easier if you grind it out if you have the right. You have the ability to become overpowered. And I'll totally get pretty powerful and I mean you know the final boss of bloodborne born is still hard like no matter how level up you are a tough fight. But it's not as hard as I would imagine the final fight integral because you can only level so much and then you just have to be good and it was hard to get as I got and I have heard of that. That final boss. I think it's a great fight in a certain way. Like if you have a threshold for that kind of just unbelievable challenge but like no way man. I still have time but I do. I do like That that story about it okay. So this next one is cool because it's trauma game that we didn't really talk much on the show that I know people like so this comes from Jordan. Who writes for me? The last secret boss of astral chain may have been the hardest artist thing I've accomplished in a video game. I think. Put It over ten hours over a single week for a single boss fight now to put it in perspective. I'm usually a completion. EST when it comes to these types of games this this is kind of a hack and slash like platinum style. I played through the main game over three times to get that s plus rank in every mission every difficulty level. Wow went through twitter. Outfitting every collectible enemy data cats race lines toilets etc toilets shirt and then s plus all of the game post game content excluding that last boss which consisted of another seventy additional missions. Some of which are fighting multiple bosses from the story at the same time. Jordan is serious about this game in. You must good. He writes with all. It took me almost one hundred hours so the last thing I had to do with one more boss which as you can see took almost ten percent of my entire playtime and the battle itself took almost thirty minutes when I did needed short amount of time right afterwards I must have sat on my couch for at least fifteen minutes in silence his heart too subtle and trying to comprehend that it was finally over. Sorry for a long story though. That's fine dirt and that was the perfect your story and yeah that's a great way to end it. I'm glad that you like didn't do do that and then have to go. Do some toilets like whenever that is you got to do everything first and then put the Cherry on top exactly. Uh Very Difficult Iron Jerry. You're up next. This is from Gavin Rights. Janine Chiro an orphan of costs where certainly league tough but they both pale in comparison to getting over it with Bennett. Fati I finally reached the cosmos after hours of hammer swing and I never want to see that weird culture and man again. I did not beat that game. I played but definitely not no. I played enough to be like okay I got. Yeah yeah that's all you really need to do with that game you can also beat it. That is an option that is available. I do think that there's like more profound getting it that you probably get once you've put in like ten and hours and gotten 'cause like I can kind of see that though I didn't I was like okay. Such a different kind of difficulty right like when in a game is fucking with you. It's more difficult because it's fucking with you because it's like make it hard like I would imagine you could play octa dead and try to like. I don't move through the supermarket without ever knocking anything over and that would be like the hardest thing possibly video game but it's because it's like it's like the opposite of Ninja guided or whatever right sector of like precision. It's like you're just barely making it every single time. You do anything in that game or like if you played like connect game could be like the hardest escape ever because it's like this weird camera. Yeah it's like a different kind of difficulty. I guess all right. Here's Sam Sam. The hardest thing I ever did in the video game was trying to be Polka. Mongolia on my gameboy color. The twist was that was eleven or twelve at the time so pre on the Internet a lot and the game would no longer save after owning it for three and four years So the challenge orange was having to be gold. Canto elite for before the batteries. And the gameboy color. We're running speed run technique rice. I don't think I ever actually beat it. But I remember the anxiety of seeing the red battery lights. Begin to flash on Gameboy and knowing that I was about to lose on my progress. Jesus horrible yeah that's like Impose challenge to be this before my controller in batteries. And I can't yeah. Yeah Yeah. That sounds really stressful. And I it doesn't sound like this person ever actually beat the game which should finally get it now like by could happen. Check it out and check out the end of that game spoke about. I can tell you what probably happened happens anyway. This next one is from Scott who writes although I could potentially list. Some of the souls born bosses here. I think the hardest obstacle completed in a game would have to be the path of pain and hollow night. this is an optional. Secret Challenge area found within the White Palace and it is included in the grim troop. DLC It is without a doubt the most difficult platforming section in any game. I've played and it doesn't even really count for anything I want to say. I got it done in three sessions of two to three hours of peace but the exact timing is blurry I would not recommend doing this exclamation point way to end this email so the next email from Vince is also the path south of pain. And he says I'm not usually to get angry while playing video games but the eighteen hours I spent leading this game my ass. Eight ways from Sunday where the most intense infuriating life altering altering difficult hours. I've ever spent in a game Vince. Rights almost became. These stereotypical angry Gamer by during my controlling the TV screen on multiple occasions months. I know that feeling. But the events sense of accomplishment I felt after finally completing it is like nothing I've ever felt unlikely will never feel again in the world of video games looking back on it. I'm glad I spent spent the time overcoming that crazy. Gauntlet Jason Kirk. I highly recommend giving a shot. If you haven't already. I believe that Jason beat this. Actually I think that sounds like something. He said that he did take care. Bye Pass on that. I beat a lot of stuff in Holland night. Like I've said the radiance is one of the things I've ever done. I do gather that the pathogen is harder harder this the area that White Palace is like. It's an endgame area. I think it might be optional. I think it's like if you're getting the true ending you have to go and it's so it's like I'm not not much for super meat boy. There's a lot of spinning blades and like stuff and you have to you know. I never beat super meat. Boy Kinda game after a certain point. I'd just like yeah I there. There are other things I'd like to do super similar and I'm curious about or this makes me think about this. A little bit is that I'm very similar. Never be I'm like not much of a platformer guy like I didn't play a lot of those games growing up and I did beat this stuff in Holland and a lot of the seven. How night is just the same kind of really really responsive the thing where are you slide on the wall like you jumped to the wall and then slide and you have to kind of keep jumping out and you like I mean jump try and that stuff is hard? I think it's because I'm so when a game gets me. Invested in other ways like leveling up on like the whole game isn't just like super meet boy like just those challenges because all night is like an action. RPG with the story. And all the stuff I was like. Oh yeah okay. I'll put in the time like eighteen hours. Spent doing that or being. The radiance feels different to me. Then it would be and just like some crazy boss rush game or some really hard platformer so I like I can kind of imagine doing it but I never did so. Yeah no I hear you. I need some emotional shaw investment. I think that's the only way I beat the last even that I did it with infinite jumping on how so I really truly pizza last this unfair question but I I did I did I would say I did but I got finished with the fact that it had a story. I'm like that helped me get through to the person I I can't remember anymore. It's me it's you eric. Rights Oh com is a great game and this section is now required at all. If you go back to the God afforest. You'll find these large balls that appear you need to push them up the hill to get some extra experience. Ami is as you know a dog and doesn't have arms so despite being an Almighty Sun Goddess. She can only kind of rub against the ball with her snout. I spent two hours trying to get the largest Paul up the hill as it slipped around in every possible way it was literally being stiffest tortured orchard by the Gaming Gods for all eternity to push this stupid ball up a hill. It drove me nuts and even though it was literally pointless I refuse to be defeated by these dumb walk. Walkie physics balls are evil but I was stronger. This stupid nonsenses. Greatest Gaming Triumph. Even more than Celeste. Chapter nine or is final. Fantasy twelve amazing amaz played comey but I can one hundred percent. I have done stuff like this stupid stupid games where I'm like. This is dumb weird thing that I've decided I'm going to do nothing springs to mind by this so hard and yet now I must do it. Were our brains. Are Bad terrible inclusion. Our brains are bad so I do feel like I'm looking at the time. There's no way we're going to get through it and we're going to have to do USA maybe next week because there are so many good ones I can think back to some of them. And we'RE NOT GONNA get to all of them but let's do maybe a couple more okay. This next one comes from Jeff. Jeff writes the hardest thing I've done in games. In recent memory is attaining the wayfarer title and destiny two completely Solo while also being a dad of two small children so this is a challenge. He he he does a pretty lengthy like recap of what this says. This is like A. It's a challenge to get like a ton of stuff you have to like. Get a million things things I'll read. This is from Jeff the titles. You're probably aware requires a great collecting a great many destiny things including the infamous the infamous. Michael Weapons you have to get those on Mars actually hard as well as exploring many different locations many times experiencing absolutely everything in the cursive of Cyrus deals with you Jeff. That was the worst deals. The only part of it really makes this challenge for Challenging for a Solo player is the requirement to get a specific random weapon to drop after completing the strange terrain nightfall on Mars in destiny to the harder. You make at the nightfall for yourself. The more likely the weapons to drop some had to aim for a score of one hundred K.. which is no easy? Feat was looking to get after ten to fifteen drums but runs. They'll never forget. Forget my final run when I finally broke one hundred k Solo and got the break tech Osprey rocket-launcher fourteen minutes into their run. I was just over one hundred K.. Score and after fifteen minutes your scores starts. It's to drop so I'm breaking character here to explain this yet. You've run through the night so you have to go really fast because like your score starts climbing but then if you go to if you take too long it like starts dropping so it gets more and more stressful and you're trying to beat the boss but they can come a point where you're like fuck were not going to get it right you get diminishing returns because exactly two long. Yeah we're not going to be able to be the boss before it gets under hundred case gets dropped so it's very stressful challenging okay so back to Jeff Jeff rates. I had knocked I. Harold absolve sites and I stepped backward firing a volley of rockets and him actually step backward off a small cliff rockets into the wall and I ended myself instead of him now. Fighting the clock with time in my score ticking down I finished. It was close call but I ended up with a score. One hundred and one K and I saw the glorious shiny purple drop out of the test I and I picked up my new fancy Osprey rocket launcher. I went into my menu dismantled the useless weapon into oblivion and checked off my brand new fancy title where Wayfarer wayfair is the least exciting impressive title in destiny too but knowing that I did it completely solo as a point of pride for me and one of the hardest things I've ever done in gaming I once described titles to my wife is a way to identify people who play you too much destiny. When I told her achievement? She said cool now. Everyone else will know you play too much just to yup cheers good pods. Yeah that's super too. I've never gotten a title industy to a plate so much but then by the time they introduced titles like not playing as much and as Jeff says you have to play a ton. It's very much like do this hard thing. And this hard thing that he's part of things and also these like thirty fucking other things that just like collect every piece of this armor that just takes forever. Just don't have evidence to see your title like it was it was wasn't it launched but I think that's common in is like you'll see your handle an underrated I'll say wayfair or like like dredging because you've liked killed a bunch of people and getting better. I don't know there's some of them are so hardcore like you have to be like absolutely and it is cool there like if you're really tell everybody I played too much destiny. Nice all right. Why don't we do one more all right? So this one's Ramesseum who writes Tarzan the game. So Oh yeah I was playing this on PC. I kept dying multiple times in a section and that infuriated me so I started the game all over again and I beat it in one single sitting not dying once sounds. I don't know what possessed me that time but it must have been out of this world. You talked about tilting. Well playing games and I think for me. It reached so far beyond it. The tilting almost became the motivator. So great he's just play all of it. Well tilted like the tire. Fresh replays like I'm so angry. I'm starting from the very beginning and I'm just pure rage. Just I love it. I love just the imagine. If like you're just like chilling the like I'll show you game and it's just because it was like I just kept dying and this one part over again. Hers in the game is good too. That's a great story so we have a bunch more. He'll feed it right in. If you WANNA send us more. I mean I just do this for the next four weeks forever. It is great fun. I'm these stories are all really fun. So if you haven't sent in a story and you want to go ahead I mean even if we don't get to read it on the show willingness only Mattie. Yeah we'll enjoy reading them. They're very fun to read. So thanks everybody. Who sent them in Split Screen at Guitar? Dot Com can always send us more more gaming stories Anna. Yeah why don't we take take a break and then come back with some off topic non video game stuff and end. We're back and it's time to talk about some non video game topics in our off topic section Matty Why don't you go first? What are you got for us this week? Okay so I have a podcast recommendation. I have started listening to this show called. You must remember this which is very popular and I forgot took the name of the host. And I'm GonNa do that right. You Talk I'm looking them up. This is I actually haven't heard of them despite it being popular. Okay so let me know her name in a minute so bill. I started because a friend of mine recommended that I just everyone. They just shared this on their social media. Everyone should listen to the song of the south episodes of you must remember this. Because because it's like just this incredible encapsulation of decades of race relations in America and describing the making of this very racist Disney movie that has been like taken in and out of Disney vault storage over the years and like the reasons why it was taken in and out of ru storage and also inspired the splash mountain. Ride which I wrote when I was in Disneyworld world and was like. Wow Yeah this right is inspired by Song of the South that racist movie that I've never actually seen and only know a few things about this is a weird ride and like what are these characters isn't sort of curious about it but never really looked into it and these episodes are incredibly good. This is like a narrative research journalism kind of podcast. Where like like the host has done all this research and she just describes the historical reality of like the making of these these movies? And it's like it's all cinema history Hollywood history so so I definitely recommend this miniseries. A folks are overwhelmed about the prospect of listening to all the archives of the show. You could just listen to this one miniseries it stands on its own. It's just the history of this movie. It's fascinating so great. So Karina Longworth is. She's also married to Ryan Johnson in which I found really way later and was like what power because I'm like okay so like they're just both really cool. I guess so I love her show. It's it's it's cool. That Ryan Johnson is married to a woman who's like incredible at cinema history research so I'm just listening and being in total fan girl about these celebrities that I don't really know anything about but yeah I've been going back and listening to a bunch of old episodes of the show as well and really enjoying them so I recommend them but I definitely super recommend this particular miniseries. I I love. That sounds fun. I that sounds like that would be good counterpart to blank check movie podcasts man. They're good I feel like song of the South is. I'll totally listen to this. I feel like I always people reference Song of the South as like that super racist in you know a lot about. Oh and then they're song of a south you know that that was bad and then they move on and I'm like well actually. I don't really know the story of that. Like what is the story and so al.. Yeah I'll tell you listen to this. That sounds Nice. Well I'll put mine around around I so I mentioned blank check last time movie podcast. I've been listening to and they've been talking about James Cameron so I've been watching James Cameron movies. I reached Avatar Great. Until let's see I I do feel like that. You like Avatar. Oh totally it's been blowing my mind for the past week so I like a lot of things about it. Actually actually the episode of blank check about Avatar is does a good job of articulating some of the things I like about it. Like the execution the way he sets things up he has like he's just a very like technically cleave very good director and thoughts on Avatar. I'm first off trying to remember if I already did this on this podcast. Like two years ago or something like that He. He did say Rewatch Avatar time to talk about video games. I do like watching it because it's just so cool looking. It is very video game. Let me say that yes. This movie is like very problematic in the way that it like that is the it's a science fiction retelling of Pocahontas but like racist possible version is very well yes it is playing with a lot of stuff like out irresponsibly and like the the level of cultural appropriation happening in this movie. Or like the fact that it's literally a combat that is not explored in the most despite the fact part of the overall message message it is bad to be like a colonialist power nature and to indigenous people exactly. It's still like it's not very very thoughtful. That's like narrowly. It's just not trying to go there. which like it could've or maybe hopefully the Siegel he's making will go there? And it's because there's a lot of stuff there if they were more thoughtful amount that you could maybe maybe say something interesting but they don't even try so that is definitely like watching a lot of stuff in this movie. That's kind of like but still it's so cool life it's like I'm being so like James Cameron about watch it like in three D or like with your home or do you just watch it norm. I just watch it and like so I and I do think I remember seeing this in three and Max I do fucking the ACA. As far as I. I think that is true when it really comes down to it like this movie as an experience experience is it works because of the Three D.. Because I remember seeing it and being like I can't believe what I'm seeing and I still think I would go see it again in Nymex like I bet they'll probably err it or they'll do a showing before the sequel or something. I don't WanNa see it again and see if it's the same because this was like three D. movies weren't even really a thing and and then this movie happened and since then no three D. movies ever been as cool as visually watching this moving now. What is weird to me and I wonder if anyone listening knows the answer to this because I do? I know there've been a lot of technical breakdowns. And he's explaining the technology he invented for this movie. Why does this movie look so so real like I don't get it and this is a question for the universe? I don't know because like does it look as real even when it's not an Nymex in three D.. Because I feel like this is the complaint. I heard most often about the movie. After the fact is that you just watched on regular television and the magic is lost Avatar were rate. It's not as cool like when you're watching just the blue people like when it's just there in the jungle and it's like all basically CG than Motion Capture Yep but at the same time there are sequences is in this movie that just it just the way. The light casts off of the Blue Navy skin like the way that like their faces move the performances like it looks like people people still it. Looks Kinda like fake. 'cause it's big blue people but it's still looks real in a way that I was a little bit of injuries. Endgame just randomly and like Thanos Jason. That looks really cool and like Josh. Brolin is like a good performance but he still looks like a CG character and like the Navy don't like they look. There's something else going on like. There's something technical. Oh happening the way that they're standing in the woods and that the leaves are like drawn and maybe it's just because they spent so much money in so much time making but I don't think like Disney and like like the marvel people didn't spend equivalent amount of money making Santa's it just. There's something technical some curious about that. There's just times in the movie where I'm like. I feel like I'm looking at real things. Some of the aerial scenes where they're flying. I'm like this kite or like a physical object moving through the air especially the big red one like that big red band chief any other there filmmaker. I'd be like maybe they did use some practical effects but it it's not so I'm pretty sure it's all not practicing with his ties to the lenses in the cameras. He used or something some way that that they shot stuff that like involved real motion even though Oh yeah that would help some way. Not Puppets or that part is all CGI CGI Spitzer's right trees for some scenes and fake ones for others right. I I think that's right and but I don't really know anyways. I'm sure there's like if anyone knows if I could really really good behind the scenes. I think maybe it's just like the rave out you just look on Youtube. And unlike outsourcing this Labor to our listeners in a way to anyways I know you're not a Disney person at all but I did get on the Avatar Disneyworld and it was pretty sick and I don't think like Avatar but it looked cool as hell video of it because I feel like you'd enjoy it. They made they make it look really cool. I WANNA say more of a Disney person than you might think. I don't know if given the impression that I'm not a fucking love Disney museum like. I'm not super like I'll watch. Lindsay Ellis US video about the history of Disney and be like Holy Shit like this so I'm not like super versed in the history of Disney. But I love Disney stuff. I think Disney is one also Disney socks Salata family. They are fascinating. I like Disney history and Disney movies. So other thing that I watch and I'll I'll be quick accents doing things breaking the rules. But whatever this is two of us is uncut gems. I watched this movie. And Wow that's that's that's a real experience yellow. I make myself awesome with the first thirty minutes and then I realized what kind of movie I was enfor which is a stressful gambling movie and I was like. I don't have an emmy today I I just don't have it. I mean I think I talked about that on the show and last week. I think I was like I'm GonNa Watch it stove and watched it folks uh-huh will I ever watch it. Yes I will. I tell when I don't know how to watch on. Yeah so I had a similar experience. Maybe I'll say what the movie is and then tell that story. This movie is starring Adam Sandler. It's made by the SAFDIE brothers. Who gather are these? Like very edgy rule breaking like guerrilla filmmakers who kind of like go without a permit and just down the street like causing trouble and it has this. They've made very stressful anxiety. Inducing types of movies and this star is Adam Sandler. He's great in it like you know. And this is a very unpleasant movie about a man who is like living so hard on edge like cranks to such such a high volume level he's like a jewel jeweler jewel merchants Amos Madden. Yeah like in the whole world that apparently is a whole world of like jewelry the end like watches and gems that moved through this one block of Manhattan and it's this long running thing of like a lot of sketchy characters a lot of crime. A A Lotta people like hustling wheeling and dealing and rambling is constantly like levering. Different deals in my other deals and and he's a complete gambling addict. Just like this is really more than anything about addiction. I think like now that finished it like and it's so stressful. So we watch this emily and I we had a bunch of screeners and we were watching them with her folks when they are visiting. And we'd put these movies and then we put that one on and this is just like many yelling at each other. It is the whole movie just like fuck. What the fog? Hey man energy well like weird since music place people walking in and out of screaming at each other. And it's not we're GONNA I kinda like movie combined with. Martin Scorsese on mess and then it turns out. Murphy's Percy like came on to produce this movie executive producer later in development and and then it kind of blew up in that. That's how they got the money to get Sandler and they got some shots and stuff so it Kinda got bigger where 'cause they were really small like last movie had Robert Pattinson and it's like much smaller budget in this movie. So yeah man. All these scenes in length the in the in the jewelry store which is a windowless room basically with with like jewelry displays and there's a buzzer door that you need this bulletproof double locked doors again. And there's just people buzzing at the door and yelling to one another and it's like Burma arm arguing with someone and you're like holy fuck and that's from the very being in the movie and it. Just escalates escalates. Escalates as he keeps making worse gambles and worst bets. And it's like can he pull this off and it's like spinning plates and you're watching plates crashed and these were that plane crashed and this total nightmare. So yeah it's not the pleasant experience watching it but it was kind of like a cool thing to watch a movie that like I felt like pulling a pin out on a hand. Grenade in your living room. And then just sitting there with the grenade in your hand holding the lever down and being like okay revenue for two hours and fifteen but that's kind of interesting because so many movies it's like oh well this be entertaining this be like illuminating. Will this be a nice two hours. This is not that. It's like a really prickly thorny thing that's like not interested at all on that and I found that interesting. I don't have that much bandwidth for like this kind of movie. You know like really unpleasant like a year but I think I handled one right but but I can't stop thinking about it. I mean it really. It is like it lodges in your brand. It's a very affecting like piece of our so if you're up for that kind of thing I do recommend it. Adam Sandler is great in it. I don't think so sometimes people are like. Oh can you believe it. And it's like yeah I can believe he's a good actor clock two decades and our dot grade timing and knows. He's a great screen presence. Chris this is good he just does other movies to make a lot of money. That's what that guy does. And given that I know there's a lot like the movie has a lot of just Jewish culture and it's it's a very Jewish movie actually thought maybe we'll link shuts that Richard Brody at the New Yorker Review of this movie. That kind of made me think of it in a lot of new ways. And he wrote about Jewishness an interesting way. And because it's about like a Jewish guy in New York who gambles on basketball. I'm very curious what Jason we'll watch so we'll have to. We'll we'll check in with him. I'm sure we'll talk about it when he's back on the show but yeah maybe that'll be my deadline to myself to watch this. Given the an uncut gems. They're both kind of about basically situation kind of similar in some ways. That's it's interesting. I hadn't thought about that before. All right well let me give. Let me give a music pick to the listeners out there and then we'll then we'll call it so for starters new strong songs John's episode this week and it is the Cardi- love full one of my favorite songs on one of my favorite albums. I it's really fun episode. I really good time making making it if anybody has ever heard that song thought like Oh. It's just that Romeo and Juliet on like I duNNo. I hopefully like this is like no cartoons brilliant band and this is a brilliant brilliant awesome. That was really fun to make anybody who wants to check that out. Good check it out. School podcast Music though is is a jazz tune. This is by a guy named Chris Potter. Who is one of my guys on saxophone? Amazing Amazing Amazing sex player and this is a tune called migrations from two thousand album traveling mercies featuring John Scofield. Qatar is a really really good jazz guitar. And this is like Funky is held Killington. It's an seven four. It's odd time coming stuff on it but once on listeners. I don't don't worry it's jazz but some of you will like it so give it a listen. This is called migrations by Chris. Barnes UH I liked it like sometime. Kelly jazz can be funky man like yeah I like it a Funky Song. And then he's not really a jazz person but I do like funk long so I feel like this song is is Yahtzee gateway into more jazz funky Jazzman. It's all out there. This guy. Chris Freeman seeing him light. It's like okay like so you can be so good at saxophone. Transcend space and time all right. I didn't know that was possible. Very good. All right well well. That was a fun episode. Did a bunch of Thanks everyone who wrote in with your stories and we'll we'll do more. Maybe maybe next we'll see we'll play it by some good ones so you haven't heard that we want to share it so bell in there but feel free to write in with more of those stories if you would like if you didn't senders into split screen at Kentucky Dot Com Mattie. I will see you next week. You will all right bye. Talk split-screen the official PODCAST OF KENTUCKY DOT COM It's produced by Jason. Schreier Manny Myers and meet Kirk Hamilton. I had it mixed the podcast and also wrote in performed our song and other music you can find us on most popular Abdur podcast services and hope you'll leave us a review. If you like what you hear the final episodes could talk you dot com slash split-screen email us at split-screen at Kentucky Dot Com Eh.