12 Episode results for "Matthew Teitelbaum"

The Museum Of Fine Arts Set To Reopen

Radio Boston

11:47 min | 8 months ago

The Museum Of Fine Arts Set To Reopen

"Centuries of art has been sitting in the dark for six months waiting to show itself again on. September twenty six that will that's when the Museum of Fine Arts says it will open to the public again with a host of new safety protocols, masks required strict social distancing, and a rethinking of which art is on display will museum meet the moment and will it be enough to recover financially after laying off one hundred people over the summer joining us now is the director of the MFA. Matthew Teitelbaum Matthew Welcome back to radio. Boston. Nice to be with you. It's great to have you and I know you have been working towards reopening for a while. Now, some other museums opened his earliest July why the longer wait for the FAA and what makes you feel ready now? Well, we took the time we needed to ensure that an old creaky building could be as welcoming and a safe as possible we were on lockdown During the period we've been closed, which means really nobody in the building we had to do it real cleaning etc after but but the real reason the deep reason is. To Open with two special exhibitions we had planned in before we closed, they were ready to go and we wanted teach show them and share them with our public. The challenge was many aspects already been designed for an old audience expectations. We had to redesign the exhibitions we had to create safe protocols. We had to take down laws. We had to replace some signs on the wall with bigger sign injury had to go to audio use handphones. All of those things had cascading effects and floats down and just interrupt if you don't mind for a minute and just asked to give our listeners the the full picture, what are these two exhibits to win? Yeah. So. So so when we're GONNA Open in three phases when you first come, you'll come to the American wing. You'll see the great treasures of the American collection. You'll see women take the floor, which is an extraordinary collection of work by women from our from our collection has been on view and has been tweaked and changed site to add new artists we'll be showing. Black Histories Book Futures Exhibition of work by black artists in our collection curated by students in Boston. That'll be phase one American Wing second-phase will be the opening of writing the future Basque. Yeah and the HIP hop generation, which looks at a group of young artists and young artists active in New York in the early nineteen eighties who made work together and their work was. Energetic colorful used a lot of text and language and poetry to say, we want to be in the dialogue about what art is. These were mostly artists of color they were younger, they were multidisciplinary. So it looks at a moment in New York, our history that's really resonant today 'cause it's about how communities form and then the third phase Oh this is gonNA happen two weeks after each other says. All going to happen fairly quickly will be the opening of our Monet in Boston Exhibition, which looks at almost forty works by Claude Monet. The great impressionist, almost all drawn from our collection. It's the first time in a generation. When all of our money paintings are home, they're actually in the building not on loan exhibitions and not elsewhere, and we're going to show them an exhibition along with a small. Exhibition of his. Compatriot. Policies. So something really energetic something really contemplated something really about history something really about this moment. So we think with that content. And the safety protocols we've put in place we will be a place that people want to be, and frankly that's why I took the time that it did. Well that makes sense. Matthew at the very beginning you said, you wanted to make the space both welcoming and safe, and what strikes me is that that mirrors the two intersecting moments that were in safe being in my mind a reference to the pandemic and welcoming meaning This moment when we are working on Rachel's justice in our communities and for many that's been a particular focus since the death of George Floyd in May but we've talked. Repeatedly with you here on Radio Boston it being a longer tail after an incident a racial incident racist incident with middle school students at the MFA Well, over a year ago I think close to a year and a half ago. Now in listening to these exhibits that you've chosen, it feels like this is part of your goal to be a museum that is for all the populations of the city of Boston is that right? Yes and you say very well, we have to be I museum for all of Boston. That means we have to invitation and we have to have the right welcome and the only way you have. The right welcome is for the views and the content and the energy of the institution to be reflective of the audiences you desire and what I would only say as a small corrective is much of this work we were doing we've been here for the last three or four years. It is core to our strategic plan from two thousand and seventeen. This notion of how do you create experiences? Around. Exhibitions and the presentation of art that really make people feel as though they can connect. So they can really connect which is why when we did the Nubia show, which we did just under a year ago, which is you know civilization many Millennia old we actually look at see the point of view of active artists and scholars and students in the Boston area and. Had them help us understand what this history meant to them today, and that invitation of different voices into the museum is what I think will finally start shifting the museum. So that feels so it belongs to all the Boston of very, very high goal for us. So that's the welcoming part. Now, let's talk about the safety part. What kinds of measures have you put in place to reopen during the pandemic and what will that do to things like the number of people who can come in at once and revenues from ticket sales people coming in planning to come into the museum. So Two parts to the to the answer we're going to have very specific protocols you have to go online or to your ticket and bring your taken in advance There'll be no actual ticket transactions in the space. Let me know coach check by the way they'll be no food They'll be food trucks outside, but they won't be actual in the cafeteria. The restaurant will not be open we just can't gather people in that way it's not safe enough. So you're going to get your ticket before you're gonNA come to museum. You're going to be greeted by somebody who smiles and says come on in we're glad you're here you're GonNa have a very specific route you're gonNA. Follow. So there's not going to be a lot of random wandering through the museum it's going to be comfortable it's going to be easy, but it's not gonNA be random. It's going to be in a in a line and you're gonNA walk through and you're going to go to the in the first phase to the American wing. You'RE GONNA be able to walk through the American wing with fair bit of freedom you're going to walk around you're GonNa look at this gallery to gallery. They're going to be some changes some moments in the gallery that it'll be pretty interesting because we brought some new works apart out of storage sort of changed the narrative a bit and stuff like that. then completely re furbish the washrooms. Automatic, we have hand sanitizer virtually every step you take. It's there for you at your discretion to us, and of course, everybody will have to wear a mask. It is something we're simply going to insist on we'll give masks for those who don't bring them but the idea is that you want to see the people you're with. Showing the care for you that you will also share with them, and so that would be a standard that we will need to meet, and then has starts hoping more and more more areas and pathways through the museum opened up. So Matthew. Those are significant investments and significant restrictions talk to us about the financial health of the museum right now especially given six months of closure. The need to lay off approximately one hundred people over the summer, where are you financially and what is the path forward to financial survival Saris, financial survival, and stability You can never say that you've done the right thing. You can never say that you've taken the actions that are necessary particularly in a context number one that's unpredictable and number two where whatever actions you take you 'cause a sense of loss. We actually laid off fifty seven people. A number of other people took early retirement on very favorable terms but in terms of actual layoffs, it was it was lower the number here using but but the point still holds we're a smaller staff. We can do less. And we have less capability to raise the funding to support the institution we estimate it will take between two and years to get back to balance in other words even opening the doors is a losing proposition from a purely financial point of view, there will be some revenue. We do have an endowment still. Generate some funding but our standard. Earned revenue, which are things like the admission and the food and the retail operations are severely severely impacted. So what how what's my answer to you were using some cash reserves? We're doing some fundraising. we are being very careful with our costs and we're trying to narrow the gap between our expenses and our revenues as much as we can. We have a plan. That will get us back to some form of equilibrium between two and three years if sanctions are correct but I can only say to you, it's a very uncertain environment where you know our business is GonNa stay close longer. Is it going to be a second outbreak? What's going to happen with the universities in the schools? These are all things that impact. The operation of the museum. So. With that in mind what is most important to you? Let's say over the next six months as the leader of the MFA. The most important thing is that we we continue to be and build upon our reputation has a cherished institution in this community. The people come. They share. They advocate they support. The idea, the museum in Boston and all it does for Boston in creating community in sharing deep pleasure in allowing people's imaginations are all those things that museums do by bringing people together. Is Honored. Deepened and that's slowly maybe my wish would be not. That, we get back to a more than normal cadence that people understand that by being the museum that active celebration experience makes us all stronger. That is my biggest hope. And that's Matthew Teitelbaum Director of the Museum of Fine Arts. Matthew thanks so much for the time today and good luck with the reopening later this month. Thank you so much. See You at Your Museum of Finer.

Boston Matthew Teitelbaum Matthew Museum of Fine Arts Your Museum of Finer FAA New York Matthew Teitelbaum Director Claude Monet Boston Exhibition director MFA George Floyd Rachel six months three years four years two weeks
Boston's Museum Of Fine Arts Reopens, Again

Radio Boston

11:36 min | 3 months ago

Boston's Museum Of Fine Arts Reopens, Again

"The museum of fine arts had to close a second time in late december. As boston's cova cases surged in the city issued new restrictions. Well they reopened today at twenty five percent capacity and the director of the fa. Matthew teitelbaum is with us matthew. Welcome back to radio boston. Thanks so much. Thanks so much so last time we spoke it was september and the mfa to reopen after restrictions. You had to close again. Tell us about the impact of this latest closure on staff morale your finances well. We closed Just before christmas. And today we're actually reopening so you know. We were closed for that period of time. Forty three days and It was challenging because one of the realities of this moment is you don't know what the end looks like. You don't know when it's gonna come and you don't want it looks like so when we closed on december twenty third. There was a lot of uncertainty. Now we have all the staff in place you know. We kept things because they were still work in the museum to do. But we were close to the public and you know let's face it we. We exist to serve our publicly to create public to bring people together so there's a real sense of loss. I'm want to be clear that i support completely. Whatever decision was made to deal with the public health crisis. That's not that's not my my point. Is that the museum exists to create a sense of community. Since a pleasure sense of connectedness and we all felt that we lost that. So what's the feeling there today. Pretty buoyant pretty buoyant. I was there when when we open down the front doors slow beginning. it's been really picking up. I mean lots and lots of people afternoon to the extent that way that we have capacity where meeting capacity we reopened with a couple of areas. Open again so our asian galleries and some pretty spectacular new egyptian galleries that opened and people who came in wanted to see those so that was really gratifying to me. Yes we have basket monet. People want to see those two special exhibitions but the collection itself was really. A draw was really appealing and reason. That's important to me. Is it tells me that people feel connected to something. that's in. Their community collection belongs to them. A collection serves them and people want to be part of it. That was very exciting to see and people came in with real excitement. Any particular piece of art that or colleagues or members of the public seek out for comfort or inspiration in a moment. Like this. well you know. I think comfort and inspiration. You know. we have to special exhibitions on at the moment. One Forty two monet paintings. Thirty seven of which are in our collection and then another extraordinary exhibition of the work of a great contemporary artists. Michelle basket And his colleagues his peers from early nineteen eighty new york and they give comfort they give comfort because they affirm and their inspirational and they inspire new ways of thinking both of them. So we're doing really well with both people responding. I think it is for those reasons that you're describing. People do feel a sense of comfort in being with beautiful works of art being with works of art. They've engaged them being with our works of art. Take them beyond themselves. in both of these exhibitions are doing just that for visitors. You mentioned operating at reduced capacity. You're at twenty five percent looking for a silver lining is there's something special about encountering the art in the mfa with fewer people around. You know. i think there I mean i don't mean to be light about this. In any way and take away from people the real anxiety people are living with but there are many silver linings and one of them in the context of reduced capacities. Exactly what you're saying. People are having really great experiences as works of art. They're seeing them as if they're in their living rooms they're able to go more slowly through the museum and therefore take them in i. I was walking through the galleries just after ten this morning. And there is a single woman in one of the galleries with our friends impressionist paintings and i said this feels pretty good. Doesn't it and she beyond her mask through her mask. Had this huge smile. She said it sure does and so. Just what you're saying. There is a sense of real. You know we're lucky we're having this moment and we're able to have it in real peace and quiet. There's something exciting about that now that you've you've talked repeatedly already today about forming public being community and you've been in a sustained conversation with us for a couple of years now about the the need for the mfa to belong to more people in boston to be responsive to listen to more people in boston. How're you doing that. Through this pandemic. Are you seeing a difference in who feels comfortable. And welcome in the newseum. I do think we're seeing Perceptible difference. I think people are coming back to museum because they do feel comfortable and safe. I think people are coming back because they're finding meaning here and we do have a variety of special programs particularly around heart. That are different than they've been before and they run the full range. So just think about claude monet. One of the greatest nineteenth century artists You know whose work celebrates the beauty of landscape at the same time. Show michelle basque. Yeah urgent urban artist talking about the beauty of community and of being recognized by your peers and creating your own sense of belonging you know. I think that i think that Great artists Give us pleasure. And they empower. They give us pleasure. Because there's something that slows us down. We look at beauty. We reflect on something then. Artist is down. that's a very high plain but they also empower us to think differently about ourselves in relation to others ideas. Maybe push us out of our comfort zone. I think museums do the same. I think they give great pleasure. And they empower us. And i think that's what's happening at the moment was with the program. The curator's and other creative types of museum are creating for our publics. We are giving great pleasure. That monet show is just filled with the most rapturous moments of reflection thoughtfulness about time. This seems passed but the basket show is also filled with pleasure that notion of assertion about being creative yourself and being identified by others and both also empowered because monet helped us to see the world differently through the lens of science and and the impressions of the eye and basketball helps us think about our own voice as individuals and how we deserve to be heard so again it's this pleasure empowerment dialogue which brings museums alive. And i think we are becoming more and more of that and i. I don't think you're gonna be something in the future if you forget the past and i think that we're doing pretty good job of balancing the two matthew. Are you seeing new. Visitors of color. A new visitors from Historically marginalized neighborhoods in boston. I wouldn't want to quantify but my answer would be yes the other thing. I would say again. I wouldn't want to quantify but i would encourage us to think this way. Is that more of boston. Are feeling increasingly comfortable at the museum. The museum is a pretty intimidating place. It's got accepts and has got the you know the formidable Facade but i think you're also seeing people feel more comfortable here a sense that they do belong here and i think the combination of expressing a desire to do that creating protocols with wonderful staff who are public with a sense of welcome. I mean those incremental things are i think billings and momentum for us and I do wanna talk about the financial hardship you said in one interview that you were losing upwards of two hundred thousand dollars a week in this second closure. You've been closed down twice. Could you handle a third closure if it happened. And what do you need from the greater boston community to continue to bring this art to everyone well to to answer. Maybe one is another closer would be very very hard on us. And you know we're in a serious situation as it is Pairing to essentials keeping Our staff first and foremost in our minds So it's challenging and we're going to do all we can to build our revenues doing a lot online. We're doing some really interested in getting the retail space You asked what bostonians can do. philanthropy is going well. There are a lot of calls on a lot of folks but philanthropy really doesn't make a difference in this moment and a subset of philanthropy is membership and You know i would urge people whether it's for the museum of fine arts or other are organizations that they care about to consider renewing their membership beginning a membership First of all you have a stronger sense of belonging secondly you're gonna help institutions in your community Survive or thrive and they had that has such ripple effects in our education system and our tourism profile in our ability for companies to bring good workers into our community. You know the support for public institutions really important. So if you're asking me what could people do. Visit your museums become museums in our remaining time. what is the top thing you've learned navigating the msa through this pandemic. I don't know that i've learned anything absolutely new You sure. I have if i really deep but but but what i would say is that. I've learned even more deeply. I've been reminded even more deeply. You don't do anything alone. You do it by working with others by sharing your authority by moving together by keeping in mind what your values are and what your commitments are in encouraging as many people as you can to move on that journey with you that i've been if i haven't learned for the first time i've certainly felt that more deeply than ever before and that is matthew teitelbaum director of the museum of fine arts. They reopened today after second closing doing due to pandemic restrictions. Matthew thanks for being with us. Good luck with the reopening. Thanks i'll see you at the mfa. Soon i hope all right. Stay with us. We're gonna take a break and when we come back. We want you to call. Have you hit the pandemic wall. Tell us how this stress is weighing on you. How you're coping with it. Maybe not coping with it. Tell us your pandemic wall story. Eight hundred four two three eight two five. That's one eight hundred four to three talk. I'm during this is radio boston.

boston matthew teitelbaum museum of fine mfa Michelle basket michelle basque matthew fa claude monet new york monet basketball museum of fine arts Matthew
Boston Pops Conductor On A Re-Imagined July 4th Celebration

Radio Boston

13:26 min | 11 months ago

Boston Pops Conductor On A Re-Imagined July 4th Celebration

"Every fourth of July. Half a million people are more descend on Boston to hear this. But the Boston pops won't be playing their traditional fireworks spectacular at the head. Show this year instead it'll be held virtually in here to talk more about that is. The conductor of the Boston POPs Orchestra Keith. Lockhart Keith welcome back to Radio Boston. Thank you. Jim Thanks for having me. So Keith you won't be conducting outside on the esplanade this year. Where will you be? Crying into my beer somewhere I suppose. It's. I'm going to spend of course holiday with my family another Mike, his older actually spend the holiday within these last couple of years because they've been all enough to stay awake through the live concert down with the hatch Shell. A going to spend. Properly socially socially distance backyard time with some close friends, and I hopefully. If everybody else's into, it will watch the show during that period of time, it's hard to watch the show. It's really it's you know. There's been a lot of disappointments large and small, especially for performing artists over these last three or four months because our voices have been silenced we we can't do what it is. We do which is bringing people together in community for a shared emotional experience. The fourth of July is just the biggest and most prominent of of those moments and having done. Five Straight Fourth of July's in Boston and having worked for several years before that was orchestras I don't I. Never had a fourth of July off for thirty years out of what to do, if I can take suggestions from the audience. That would be great. Yeah no kidding. I watched that you guys. Do want to ask you. Is there anything that's possible this year because it's virtual, that hasn't been in the past with the spectacular. Well. It's a really interesting question you know. Even though we only announced it relatively short time ago, we've pretty much been thinking. Since the end March, it didn't take a genius to figure out that we may have trouble with a life alive half-million person that in the current situation and we were thinking about. We need to stay in that place. I mean for so many people their understanding of the way they celebrate the holidays. The Boston pops in the. The center of that and so we want to put a show on. We knew we had lots of great material from previous years, but we also didn't want to just raw rerun It's one thing to do a retrospective, but we're in such a unique time. I mean not just in terms of the pandemic that is shut so many things down on a worldwide scale, but also with the the recent. The recent unrest about of. About, you know uncovering the very obvious and ongoing racial justice in this country. All those things need to be contextualised I mean we've always felt that. The concert was not just a list together. Ever every July fourth and go Rah Rah, but it was of not only a celebration, but it was also an honest look at. What we still needed to commit ourselves to to achieve this dream. This called America. Keith I WANNA stay on that theme from an and I. WanNa play some of performance from last year that I understand be featured in this year spectacular. This Grammy Award Winning Americana Artist Rianne and get into performing her songs. She's got you. Casing. So, the world of classical music has long been accused of being unwelcoming to black artists. Giddens herself has been frank about racism. She's experienced in her career and in the very roots of the music she performs. How do you see the role of your institution? In tackling systemic racism I know the POPs has clear. One of the messages of this year spectacular is to be confronting racism. Yes well as soon as you know I think. I think! Everyone at least those of us who are trying to do the right thing at our well-meaning attempts in the performing arts. This is caused everybody to take a long hard look at what it is. They do what who who gets who gets featured who gets up to the side How the history of of music guests written in our part in playing in that are re Adam is an amazing amazing individual and has. Done so much to. If you will set the record straight the concert, she has done with us over these last couple of years involved basically telling the actual story of American folk music, and how it had often been co-opted by by the people in power to be different from what it actually was we were. Very. Committed when we started. Putting the show together which was long before the events of the last three or four weeks we started talking about what we put on this program in April and we really wanted a incredibly diverse cast of artists. I mean the. I think the makeup of the fourth of July has always tried to reflect the back. They were playing for our widest most diverse audience, and I'm proud to say looking at the lineup route. Twenty twenty is that we had for probably the first time majority minority set of headliners of. With which is which is wonderful, because at the end of the day that pops always going in different directions than the traditional classical is King Street and we need to reflect that. So I hosted a w are virtual town hall this week. And one of the guests was Matthew Teitelbaum the director of Museum of Fine Arts and we were talking about the role that are cultural institutions play in our cities life. Here's what he said about how he's trying to change his institution. After middle schoolers encountered racism while on a tour there, we also want to make sure that. That we become an institution in which the voices of our community are heard that we are platform in a reciprocal relationship where they can see themselves, understanding themselves and be heard, it has to change, and it has to change because when that starts to change belonging star search change, and we're belonging starts to change. You are part of Boston, and you are changing the way Boston understands itself. When I heard that I found myself thinking about this conversation we were going to have to, because you are the head of another significant cultural institution in our city. What are your reflections reactions I'm kind of his thoughts there. Well? I mean it's beautifully. Put for one thing and you know the proof is in how all of us. The largest institutions respond to the moment and and go further. Think you know we need to start looking at things it's it's. It's always been easy in some ways to say you know. Music in the classical music is is in many ways of a great meritocracy. We try very very hard. When we let people into the Boston Symphony and of Austin posture is to be to only the best people, no matter what background they they come from, but when we look at the chance of being. Voices to be heard compositional for instance the, you know. We we have to do better. We have to look at our community and constantly asked the question. Are we in any way reflective of the community home? We asked to listen to us. Keith, let's talk about the holiday itself. We I think we're looking at the fourth differently. This year I as we've just been talking about, our country's increasing racial awareness means we recognize that the date didn't mean independence for a huge segment of our population, but we're also at a time when symbols of patriotism becoming politicized the flag for example. Do you feel that in preparing for this celebration. And how does it affect both how we should prepare? Celebrate the fourth, and also how people experience it. Do you think? Well well, you're you're right. I mean the problem you know. Everything has been has been put to question. You're right. It's easy to celebrate July fourth, seventeen, seventy six, and until you realize that a large portion of the people in the country were not affected by the Declaration of Independence, and been you know they. Over fifty percent or over the female ovulation country didn't get the vote till well over one hundred years over that and did not have one of the very basic rights that we consider part of being. Part of a free democracy. I think. We've always been very careful with the pops and I think this year in particular to make sure that this was not just A. Route wrap yourself in the flag sort of moment that there are things that we can celebrate their commonalities that we can celebrate their accomplishments. We can celebrate, but also of the acknowledgement each year that. that. What we celebrate as being America. Is Not always in actuality what? We say that it is and that. Fourth of July, more than just being petting ourselves on the back is a recommitment for everybody there to look at the problems confronting our country and be brave enough to confront them I. I think of America as as an ideal. Is a reachable ideal, perhaps certainly is reachable better than we've managed to do so in the last two hundred and thirty years. Sick, as part of the reason, we're having this conversation that we're in a pandemic. It's changing how we're doing everything and I wonder are you rethinking gathering in togetherness is going to mean for live music in the future and in the long run. But one thing I'll say. Is that I've you know I've even though I have a couple of. Young kids at home, and so I get to dive into spending time with them. That's that's wonderful. Certainly I think I've spent more time the last four months with them that I'd spent in their entire lives to date before that because of the nature of conducting career But. One thing that I have my own reflective moments in all of us who loved the arts and are committed to his great institutions that have been where they have lived and gone out into the community for so many years have been thinking about what the Robak might look at like, but as you know, the scenario shipped under US and almost on a daily basis, so we've been. We've been You. Know speculating if things are like this, how can we bring me as to be able? One day. I can tell you that the next time I get to. Step onto a stage and look at the people out in the audience and say we'd like to give this to. You would like to share this with you. I will never take this job for granted again. Take my role as a performer for granted again. I mean I. Love what I do. I feel very blessed and very fortunate, but everybody's job feels like a job sometimes I. I can't imagine never. I can't imagine ever being. Grateful. For the privilege of steady out there on stage. And that's Keith Lockhart. Conductor of the Boston pops orchestra. You can watch this year's July, fourth fireworks spectacular called a Boston pops into our heroes on W. H. Channel, seven or Bloomberg TV and radio starting eight PM Keith. Good luck on Fourth of July and thanks so much for joining us. Thank you my pleasure. And we'll go out today on the Boston pops playing John Williams's summon the heroes part of the recent virtual performance dedicated to frontline workers. And that's our show for today. Radio Boston is produced by Jamie Bologna Zoe Mitchell Chris, citric Paris Allston, and Walter men Tim, SCO is our technical director with engineering today by Glenn. Alexander our executive producer is attached hoppy anti-science deering. Thanks for listening today. Join US again tomorrow for more Radio Boston.

Boston Keith Lockhart Lockhart Keith America Grammy Award Boston Symphony Jim Mike US Adam Matthew Teitelbaum Twenty twenty Giddens John Williams Museum of Fine Arts Alexander executive producer director Bloomberg TV Austin
Hitting The Pandemic Wall

Radio Boston

47:31 min | 3 months ago

Hitting The Pandemic Wall

"This is radio boston. I'm tci during and our top story today as it has been pretty much every day over. The last year is the coronavirus. We're going to spend some time looking at how to of boston's iconic institutions have fared one year into the pandemic. We begin with a one year checkup for massachusetts general hospital to help us with that. Is dr peter. Slaven president of mass general. dr slavin. welcome back to radio boston. Thank you so much good to be back so earlier this week. The commonwealth marked the one year anniversary of the first confirmed covid case. I want to know. Do you remember hearing about that first case and what did you think. At that time. I heard back in january for from some of our infectious disease and emergency preparedness staff that they were had become aware of this Virus in china and we're concerned about the potential that it had and so we actually started our planning activities back than And then turn them on in earnest later that month when it became clear that the virus would spread out of china and was likely going to be in the boston area. Before too long you really treating it as it's a matter of time we've got a switch where ready to flip and you actually flipped the switch. It sounds like before the first case was confirmed here in the commonwealth That that's correct and it's hard to believe that we've last week celebrated our one year anniversary of our preparedness Command center normally under when we deal with emergencies be they marathon bombings or nightclub fires. We we are in this mode for a few days that the in it for a year has been an extraordinary thing to watch. That sounds exhausting. Can you try to help us understand. What hospital your your staff. The patients have been through in this past year. I mean certainly one of the most inspirational parts of this for me has just been to see how our staff has responded. I early on. They were little bit excited about being right on the front lines of perhaps our nation's biggest problem in our in our generation but over time that Excitement sorta wore out and the fear the exhaustion associated with caring for patients with this pandemic. The took over. I'm pleased to say that. I think the staff is in in good shape. Some of them clearly have been were traumatized by what they went through particularly in the spring. This this year. I mean in the last few months we've seen another surge. Fortunately much smaller than the one we saw last last spring I think in our staff knows much better how to care for these patients. they become reasonably routine. I think the staff is much more relaxed and it feels much more like a business as usual at the hospital. Was there for you ever a moment when you thought of this. This is going to be too much. We will not keep up. We are going to be overrun. When when the numbers in the spring Kept climbing and we got up his highest four hundred inpatients with covid nineteen hundred of whom were in intensive care units. I mean we develop plans to be able to care for more patients. Maybe as many as three hundred. Icu patients but we didn't know the numbers. We're going to start to turn in the right direction. And so there was some fear that they would exceed ability to to care for patients. And i guess using a narcotics analogy that the the c. would would breach the seawall. Fortunately that didn't happen. The numbers that started heading back in the right direction. We had a bit of a respite over the summer when the numbers were really small. And then they've come back In the case of mass general too about a third of what they were less a less friend decker sleeve and what about patient care as a layperson. It seems that a year ago we really didn't know how to respond to covid. Nineteen especially as severe cases. Started to emerge is patient treatment substantially different. Now has it gotten better as it stayed largely the same l. Caring for a patient with any disease. I mean there's a certain rhythm to it. You sort of know. The the moves that the disease makes and can respond to them early on. We didn't really know the moves of this particular disease so every case was a bit of an adventure and obviously since that time we've also had some therapeutics that have come into the marketplace that seemed to make a difference for people in various stages of illness be they monoclonal. Antibodies a remdesivir steroids. There's no doubt that those individually and in combination can can help as well any game changers among that list. Dr slavin one that once you were finally able to use it with patients. You're like okay now you know now. Now we've really got something here. I think probably the biggest game changer has has been the steroids a deck samantha sony medicine. That's been with us for a number of years. I remember using it when i was a resident of mass general more. Recently there's been very positive data about some of the monoclonal. Antibodies suggesting that they can reduce Hospitalization rates and also reduce deaths among outpatients with cove nineteen. So so those studies have just recently come out and so i figured across those antibodies will be even more that more of a significant weapon against this disease than we initially thought. So that kind of makes me want to transition to ta- vaccinations. I think the whale do that is. I'll ask you. We talked to The developer of the johnson and johnson vaccine at the beginning of the week. Dr dan baroque and they started working on a vaccine. Really in late january did we as a medical community balance right between pursuing a vaccine and pursuing treatments in those early months of of the pandemic bid in addition to the heroism of healthcare workers. This past year one of the other inspirational things for me has just been to see the power modern medical science in the way. The scientific community is pivoted to To address covid nineteen. I mean we now have less just a little more than a year after we became aware of this disease to vaccines that were actively using. Hopefully the johnson and johnson vaccine that dr peru was behind will get approved by the fda in the coming days and so that gives us a lot of hope for the future. I think Therapeutics actually harder to develop than vaccines Particularly against viruses their number of candidates number some drugs have already come on the market other candidates being tested. But i don't think it's any surprise that their impact on the disease is probably in the long run going to be less than the neta vaccines. So let's stay with vaccines. I'm sure you're aware that governor baker says that the commonwealth started with a slow targeted rollout. So that we could get to some very specific. Vulnerable populations Do you believe that was the right strategy at the beginning. I've been on regular phone calls with governor baker secretary sutter's in just been continuously impressed at how they've they've approached his pandemic. I think the result of recommendations coming out of the national academy massachusetts initially decided to vaccinate healthcare workers and first responders and then turned its attention to the general population. And i'm thrilled. That a mass general and across our health system mass general brigham and across the state. We've begun vaccinating people over the age of seventy five. I think some other states have taken a more helter skelter less stuff focused approach to vaccination But i think this is probably the right one and And i think it's reasonably entered a new phase that were extremely excited about has mass general vaccinated. Its entire staff at this point or most of the staff. We've offered a to our entire staff. I think somewhere over eighty percent of the staff have been vaccinated with at least one does and and their number of people who are scheduled for their second so the vast majority of our staff has taken the vaccine and was that the decision to offer it to everyone. Was that a hospital decision. Or was that direction that you received from the commonwealth. No we we abide by the commonwealth direction one of our physicians. Dr bidder is chairing the committee at the state level. That's advising the administration on vaccine deployment. So we have input into the state's priorities but once those priorities and rules are set. Were obliged to follow them so. I'm sure you're aware that there's been some discussion about that in a story about who and hospitals are getting vaccinated. Michael meena who's a professor at harvard's teach chance school of public health told npr quote. We're seeing just a huge number of people get vaccinated who i think should. Frankly be way down the line. These are people have nothing to do at all with covid or with patient care or really with the hospitals and quote up. I want to ask you. Do you understand where that criticism and concern comes from. And how do you respond to it. I'm sure you've heard this as as the head of mass general. No i have heard that criticism. And and i understand it whenever you have a resource that everybody in our society desperately wants and you only have a limited amount of it. There inevitably are going to be unhappy people until much further along in the out. I think the rationale for decision to go forward with healthcare workers was just to make sure that we have the workforce on hand necessary to care for everyone else and yes. There are people who in their day to day job. Maybe working in a research laboratory of mass general but during the first wave and even to some degree during this wave. We've redeployed that staff so that they are helping with a with various patient care activities being be registering patients for their vaccination. Be keeping an eye on monitors for busy clinical staff in our intensive care unit. So we've we've redeployed many people within our staff to help out with this epidemic. So you said about eighty percent of the staff that you've invited to be vaccinated have been. I don't know if this is the right way to think about it. But in fact. I'm guessing it's not but does that help you achieve some kind of herd immunity inside the hospital networker. Do you feel an urgency that you hope to convince the rest of the staff to be vaccinated. How are you thinking about that. Yeah we want everybody ultimately to get vaccinated but we're not forcing it unlike with influenza just because these axioms are being issued under an emergency authorization so we think people should have the right to decide whether to get it or not. Yes certainly having everybody in the hospital. Vaccinated will help but the same people are going home going into the community and so it doesn't really provide herd immunity for our entire community but it's early keeps a higher percentage of them well and not able to To care for others and do you know at at the hospital. Do you know in advance. How many doses you are getting and have you had to hold any doses back. Due to the phasing we know the commonwealth is distributed. Only about sixty percent of the doses. It has received. And i mean clearly there is I mean i think we've been greater clarity in the last few about the vaccine pipeline. It's still has to go from the manufacturers to the federal government to the states and then distributed by two by the states hospitals pharmacies large vaccination centres so that process is is pretty cumbersome from beginning to end at my understanding. Is that the way it's working now is that we're going to be told every friday. A how much vaccine to expect for the following week starting on wednesday and so we'll be able to flex up or down. Our vaccination capacity based on the allotment will be getting from the state but the amount of vaccine relative to the demand is still a small I mean we have across our health system mass general brigham one hundred and fifty thousand patients over the age of seventy five who are eligible seen in this past week. We were told by the state that we were getting. Ten thousand vaccine doses. Hardly so we have a lot of very disappointed patients over the age of seventy five. Who are who. We can't help this week. And who are scrambling to find other vaccination opportunities in in the community. So dr slavin briefly before we let you go. Where are you feeling. The greatest sense of urgency. Right now Well i mean clearly. The greatest focus at the moment has been on vaccination and trying to get that out as quickly as possible and as equitably as possible. I guess the other thing that's looking in my mind or these variants and how much of a setback. They're gonna cause us in the in the long term. This virus clearly is able to mutate as most viruses can so far. Despite its mutations it seems to still be vulnerable to vaccines and therapeutics. But i guess that's my greatest concern. It does in general like Where we're heading an we're over the hump and maybe heading down the slope but to the to the finish line but certainly a variant could emerge that could could dash those those hopes we. I certainly hope not. That is dr. Peter slaven president of massachusetts general hospital. Dr slavin. thanks so much. Appreciate it thank you so much. Take care the museum of fine arts. Had to close a second time in late. December as boston's cova cases surged and the city. Issued new restrictions. Well they reopened today at twenty five percent capacity and the director of the mfa. Matthew teitelbaum is with us matthew. Welcome back to radio boston. Thanks so much. Thanks so much. So last time we spoke it was september and the mfa was preparing to reopen after restrictions. You had to close again. Tell us about the impact of this latest closure on staff morale your finances well. We closed Just before christmas. And today we're actually reopening so we were closed for that period of time. Forty three days and It was challenging because one of the realities of this moment is you don't know what the end looks like. You don't know when it's going to come and you don't want it. Looks like so when we closed on december twenty third. There was a lot of uncertainty. Now we kept all the staff in place you know. We kept things going because they were still work in the museum to do but we were close to the public and you know let's face it we we exist to serve our publicly existed create public to bring people together so there was a real sense of loss. I'm wanna be clear that i support completely. Whatever decision was made to deal with the public health crisis. That's not that's not my point. Is that the museum exist to create a sense of community. Since a pleasure sense of connectedness and we all felt that we lost that. So what's the feeling there today. Pretty buoyant pretty buoyant when when we open down the front doors Slow beginning. it's been really picking up lots and lots of people this afternoon to the extent that we have capacity where meeting capacity we reopened with a couple of new areas open again so our asian galleries and some pretty spectacular new egyptian galleries that opened and people who came in wanted to see those so that was really gratifying to me that yes we have. Basquiat yes we have people. Watch see those two special exhibitions but the collection itself was really odroid was really appealing and reason. That's important to me. Is it tells me that people feel connected to something. That's in their community. Collection belongs to them. Catching serves them and people want to be part of it. That was very exciting to see and people came in with real excitement any particular piece of art that you or colleagues or members of the public seek out for comforter inspiration in a moment like this well you know i think comfort and inspiration you know we have to special exhibitions on at the moment one Forty two monet paintings thirty seven of which are in our collection And then another extraordinary exhibition of the work of great contemporary artists. Michelle basket And his colleagues his peers from early nineteen as new york and they give comfort they comfort because they affirm and their inspirational and they inspire new ways of thinking both of them. So we're doing really well with. Both people are responding. I think it is for those reasons that you're describing. People do feel a sense of comfort in being beautiful works of art being with works of art that engage them being with our works of art that takes them beyond themselves In both of those these exhibitions are doing just that for visitors. You mentioned operating at reduced capacity at twenty five percent you know looking for a silver lining is there's something special about encountering the art in the mfa with fewer people around. You know. i think there. I mean i don't mean to be light about this. In any way and take from people real anxiety people are living with but there are many silver linings and one of them in the context of reduced capacities. Exactly what you're saying. People are having really great experiences. Works of art. They're seeing them as if they're in their living rooms they're able to go more slowly through the museum and therefore take them in i. I was walking through the galleries just after ten this morning. And there is a single women in one of the galleries with our friends impressionist paintings. I said this feels pretty. Good doesn't it and she beyond her mask through her mask. Had this huge smile. She said it sure does and so. Just what you're saying. There is a sense of real you. We're lucky we're having this moment and we're able to have it in real peace and quiet. There's something exciting about that. You've talked repeatedly already today about forming public being community. And you've been in a sustained conversation with us for a couple of years now about the need for the mfa to belong to more people in boston to be responsive to listen to more people in boston. How are you doing that through this pandemic and are you seeing a difference in who feels comfortable and welcome in the museum you know. I do think we're seeing a perceptible difference. I think people are coming back to the museum because they do feel. That is comfortable and safe. I think people are coming back because they're finding meaning here and we do have a variety of special programs particularly around art. That are different than they've been before and they run the full range. So just think about claude monet. One of the greatest nineteenth century artists You know whose work celebrates the beauty of the landscape at the same time. Show michelle bass urgent. Urban artist talking about the beauty of community and being recognized by your peers and Creating your own sense of belonging you know. I think that i think that Great artists Give us pleasure. And they empower us. They give us pleasure. Because there's something that slows down. We look at beauty. We reflect on something that artists down at a very high plain but they also empower us to think differently about ourselves in relation to others ideas. Maybe push us out of our comfort zone. I think museums do the same. I think they give great pleasure. And they empower us. And i think that's what's happening at the moment with with the programming the curator's and other creative types museum are creating for our publics. We are giving great pleasure. Show is just filled with the most rapturous moments of reflection and selflessness about a time that seems passed but the basketball show is also filled with pleasure. That notion of assertion about being creative yourself and being identified by others and both also empowered because monet helped us to see the world differently through the lens of science and and the impressions of the eye and basque helps us think about our own voice as individuals. And how we deserve to be heard so again. It's this pleasure empowerment dialogue which i think brings museums alive. And i think we are becoming more and more of that and i. I don't think i don't. You can be something in the future if you forget the past and i think that we're doing a pretty good job of balancing the two matthew. Are you seeing new visitors of color new visitors from historically marginalized neighborhoods in boston. I wouldn't want to quantify but my answer would be. Yes the other thing. I would say again. I wouldn't want to quantify. But i would encourage us to think this way is that more. Boston are feeling increasingly comfortable at the museum. The museum is a pretty intimidating place. It's got big steps and it's got the you know the the formidable facade but i think you're also seeing people feel more comfortable here the sense that they do belong here and i think the combination of expressing a desire to do that creating protocols with wonderful staff who are public With a sense of welcome. I mean those incremental things are i think building some momentum for us and i do wanna talk about the financial hardship. You said in one interview that you were losing ports of two hundred thousand dollars a week in this second closure. You've been closed down twice. Could you handle a third closure if it happened. And and what do you need from the greater boston community to continue to bring this art to everyone well to answer. Maybe one. is you know another closer would be very very hard on us. And you know we're in a serious situation as it is Pairing to essentials keeping our staff first and foremost in our minds So it's challenging and we're gonna do all we can to build our revenues. We're doing a lot online. We're doing some really interesting in the retail space You ask what bostonians can do Philanthropy is going well. There are a lot of calls on a lot of folks but philanthropy really doesn't make a difference in this moment and a subset of philanthropy his membership and You know i would urge people whether it's for the museum of fine arts or other. Our organizations that they care about to consider renewing their membership beginning membership First of all you have a stronger sense of belonging secondly you're gonna help institutions in your community Survive or thrive and they had that has such a ripple effects in our education system in tourism profile in our ability for companies to bring good workers into our community. You know the support for public institutions is really important. So if you're asking me what could people do visit. Museums become resume in our remaining time. What is the top thing you've learned navigating the msa through this pandemic you know. I don't know that i've learned anything absolutely new Sure i have. If i really deep but but but but what i would say is that. I've learned even more deeply. I've been reminded even more deeply. He don't do anything alone. You do it by working with others by sharing your authority by moving together by keeping in mind what your values are and what your commitments are encouraging as many people as you can to move on that journey with you that i've been if i haven't learned it for the first time i've certainly felt that more deeply than ever before and that is matthew teitelbaum director of the museum of fine arts. They reopened today after second closing doing due to pandemic restrictions. Matthew thanks for being with us. Good luck with the reopening. Thanks i'll the as soon. I hope all right stay with us. We're going to take a break and when we come back we want you to call. Have you hit the pandemic wall. Tell us how the stress is weighing on you. How you're coping with. It may not coping with it. Tell us your pandemic wall story. Eight hundred four two three eight two five five. That's one eight hundred four to three talk. I'm donna during this. Is radio boston. All right we are coming up on a year since our lives were completely up ended by the pandemic in that time we have constantly adjusted to new normal and then another new normal another new normal in the beginning we weren't when we weren't scrambling to let's keep a job Stay connected to distance learning care for sick family members. We were doing coping things like baking bread so much bread may be picking up new hobbies and then the weather warmed up. We've found ways to stay socially distant maybe see each other outside and then the buzzer. The election holidays the inauguration. They were different. But many of us found creative ways to celebrate or commemorate commemorate usually without a crowd but now we are in the dead of winter. It is february there is nowhere to go. Stresses are piling up. We are between a vaccine and a hard place and now frankly it is just like and make the pizza dough from scratch and make the meatballs and i was making pasta with the kids and like totally living my best friends life but like now. I don't wanna make pizza dough right now. That started out being like this is cool. We're starting traditions. This is stability now like my god. That is comedian mc bethany van delft describing to us. What many people are feeling right. Now are you. We want to talk with you about it. Have you hit a pandemic wall. I have over this. Pandemic is even though it's far from over. Tell us your story. And what were you doing. In the beginning to try to maintain some routine or stability. That's just gone out the window. Eight hundred four two three eight two five five. That's one eight hundred four to three talk to guests joining us for the conversation today. With a good mix. I think of serious and sense of humor. We have tito jackson former boston. City councilor and ceo of medical cannabis company and meghan kelly. Who is a social media. Editor four w. r. tito meghan. Welcome thank you for having us. Hi it's so nice to talk to you got to have you both. Yeah i hear you so tito. Have you hit the pandemic wall. And are you eating your way through it i am doing. I posted something the other day that said in the beginning of the pandemic i wanted to lose ten pounds and i'm only fifteen pounds away and You know definitely The jigsaw jigsaw puzzles and also Organizing all of the drawers and throwing out stuff has been A bunch of projects that i've done But you know you. You definitely do hit. The social piece is absolutely critical. And i have a group of friends that we do A regular zoom what's allows us To connect with each other. And we've now added Some adult beverages to that zoom there. You go megan. Have you hit a wall. I feel like i hit so many walls so I have two kids who are in school. They're in a sixth grader. And a third grader. And so it's been really difficult from the start in fact. I chuckled to myself. a little. When you mentioned about people break baking bread. Because i felt like i could not even print like i think i tweeted something like i'm watching never went on instagram. Bake bread and i'm just in the corner. China eat the chinese food leftovers while my kids are crying about this or that So i i feel like it comes into goes right like there days. Where feel like okay. You know they're nice things about being home rate like i'm spending more time with my kids and my husband than i ever have before and there are other days where i'm like if i don't leave this house for anything today. I'm gonna lose my mind ed. Maybe just opened doing scream. Because that's no you get to that point and we deal with. I think people have to open the window and scream. We are getting to that point and we haven't even added in you. You were sick at one point and people have lost loved ones. And they've lost. At what point do you just open the window and scream that. I feel very grateful. I to one v. here but also let's also acknowledge the fact that a lot of those not only have passed kobe but then there are individuals who have long term symptoms and sometimes irreparable Issues simply don't go away. I have a friend. Who's the same age as i am. Forty five with a high school and She now has Kidney kidney disease and they actually changed her vision. and so i think that this component the compelling aspects of this Thinking about one vaccine and all that stuff right now but also really wanting people to not get this Disease state is a real critical piece and the fact that A lot of people also suffering from anxiety and other mental health issues that we've seen a lot including Our children who are not currently in school in most districts. So there's some real thoughtful things that we need to be begin to think about him and we don't have an answer right now And also we can't necessarily go back to on norms that didn't work before listeners. Have you hit the pandemic wall. It may be painful. It may be funny. I usually find. It's both you gotta laugh your way out of the crying out. Let us let us be the community day. Tito jackson's here. Meghan kelly's here call in share your story share your coping mechanisms. Eight hundred four two three eight two five five eight hundred four to three talk. Let's go to laura in west roxbury high fi go ahead lira. ohi- well. I had a baby in august i have a terminally ill in another country and i feel like i held it together until my five year old had a snow day this week and that just kinda put me over the edge because We're managing but my husband doesn't get a snow day from work. She'll being home with both kids. I just felt like my head was hitting that pandemic wall real hard however sounds oh. I'm sorry to go. Megan jump in. I was saying. I think that sounds so hard. And i'm very congratulations on the baby. And i'm sorry about your parent. I think that it. You know your mom to you feel like maybe you have all the plates spinning or you have the cards stacked up rate and all it takes is just one more little thing and then the whole thing falls down so i like my industry has shut down. So i've become a safe home parent even though that was never the plan. Yeah and and very sorry. Definitely be praying for your your parents but that all that this transition you know we have a hospitality industry in the state of massachusetts that has collapsed and you know really beginning to think about in the future in the very near future. What people do. How are people going to cope. In addition to the fact that we have several tens of thousands of people who haven't paid rent sense last year Couple of months from now. So there's a lot that we have to think about from a policy perspective and how we actually help help folks Get on into the future. So megan kelly responded immediately to leonora. They're i'm gonna go back to the phones in the minute but what are you doing to cope. Obviously we're not baking bread anymore. What are you doing on the tough. Now yeah you know. It's hard. I i do wanna make sure that everyone listening knows that you know. I do feel incredibly lucky. I've been able to stay employed. My husband's been able to stay employed Rivera lucky neither of us have gotten sick and we can work from home and our bosses have been incredibly understanding and wonderful You know an i. It's very hard for a lot of people out there. I so i feel. I try to count my blessings. Like as my mom says because that does sometimes kind of grad me back in reality I think honestly the biggest thing for me sometimes is just finding the little joys and things. I love us dropping on my kids. Zoom calls or google meets with their classes because you get a glimpse into their school day. That maybe i definitely wouldn't have gotten before and their teachers are killing it like they are just working so hard They are always upbeat. They're super positive about it So that has been really nice actually is just hearing them. Talk to the kids pretty openly about stuff but also just being honest that sometimes it's hard and You know hey everyone let's take a break and you can show if your pets or your baby brother or whatever And you know there's stuff that that is easy to do like take a bath but Or take a nice a nice bracing walk but honestly sometimes you know. I don't know i'd wanna go out for walk today. It's pretty cold but You know. I think it's important to find even if it's just small things that they don't feel really big but they are big is is a really big thing for me and i and i hope for other people as well back to the phones. Go ahead touchdown. I want to acknowledge that In this crisis situations there are people who stepped up to do amazing things. And i know. I'm monica kenneth. Grant has been on his show multiple times but she fed any that sees a mom of six And said eighty thousand people Throughout this time you have individuals in the community. Like the the Boston black covid organization. You have A friend of mine frank farrell. Who's been doing doing stuff. So there's also some amazing Phenomenon of people who've actually been able based on some some of the needs that are out there To have stepped up and done amazing work In this time and in this in no way you know Takes away from the amazing work that is happening in households Like like my colleague on the line right now and just keeping it together on a day-to-day basis. really nice. like side. Effect of this is you. People are helping other people so much and it's i covered something that monica cannon grant was speaking at and was i didn't know she had six children in the best of times that impresses me but in this time when she's able to help so many people is incredibly impressive yet. We actually had monica's a local boston activists. We actually had her on the show just a couple of weeks ago just to 'cause our listeners might recognize that name eight hundred four two three eight two five five. That's eight hundred four to three talk geneva's on the line from grafton shahida have you hit the wall. I hit a lot of times All through the your. It's been a roller coaster. But i think with the resources my family. My friends tried to climb but a little bit. Fallen down climbed up again. I did sewing and painting and coloring and everything. I could think of me. It's really more difficult than you're paying. And every now. And then. I lose hope. I'm very excited about vaccine and I was listening. All your and director remm said that this your had one third of the patients. I'm hoping that next year. Once or that i do imagine of the good times and i want to be sure nita. What's the best origami shape. You've learned to make elated bunny. I love it a little. Bunny i wanna see. I wanna see a picture that yeah so. Go ahead. Mega jump in. I was just gonna say that was impressive. Origami is very hard very hard. I can do like a start so tito how about you. Hobbies already talked about zoom in adult beverages. What else are you doing. And funny stories of hitting the law Well i've been. I've actually been taking some some investment classes online I didn't i. I wasn't i wasn't i wasn't Up to the up to snuff on all the game. Stop stuff that that happened But you know i. I've actually taken a lotta time to reconnect individually with friends one of the weird things about facebook and the like. We think we know about folk. But we don't really and just because most people post their best life on on on the internet but when it comes down to actually doing this really radical thing like making actual phone call to somebody and having you know an hour long conversation. I've actually just kinda taken some time to do that. In addition to as you know building building A cannabis business but That has been those have been some of the highlights. And i and i got to spend a month with my mom In florida and i haven't gotten to spend that much time with my mom in a long time and to be there. She had some Medical procedures and to be there and just to be still and you know just have her back that has been one of the other things from a side effect side To slow down a little bit to appreciate this thing that we call life and then mazing family and friends that hassle. That sounds really nice. It does make it. Have you been able to see parents. Are your parents still with you. And if you've been able to see them. Yeah my parents actually live on martha's vineyard so we have seen them We did visit them over the summer. And then they've been helping out One of my sisters who had a third son in may They've been helping my mom's been helping out with The little one. So you'll stop. I will say hi or kind of do stuff. We have a screened in porch. We can kind of Chattan and feel feel a little safer with the mascot about saying low. But you know we didn't spend christmas with them and I was really sad about it but it felt like the right thing to do. But i've spent every christmas of my life with my parents so it felt a little if a little strange and a little sad yeah. Let's go back to the phones. Eight hundred four two three eight two five five. We've got michelle on the line from marblehead. Hi michelle Longtime listener first-time caller jump on in michelle. Glad you called so So i'm a nanny and I was i you know for the pandemic you know kind of going with the flow but i was a little bit excited because i was going to be able to have that opportunity to do home schooling and then kind of learning about The differences between remote learning and home schooling and You know march Kicked in and and you know. I was Planning crafts almost daily. I'm living so that wings a little bit. During the summer i was still doing crafts. And and now you know being that you know it's coming on a year A lotta that slow down. I think I i think i ran out of the crafts I had had Taken advantage of one of those craft doors closing. So i bought a ton of the a little get past this summer. And but i mean it was you know. And i'm a no screen Tv nanny so You know always offering activities and such and yeah and we ran. We ran out of crafts and and You know so. We do a lot of outside activities during the summer. And then now we've hit the summer months and you know it's tough for the kids because they can't socialize it's tougher nannies to in general not even just living because you know we're in isolation and and then also to a lot of families are demanding You know Cova d- Guidelines where they don't want you you know socializing outside of the house my my family's not like that But again. You know i have Some underlying issues too. So i don't see it as well so we're going to take it back from you there. Michelle thanks and i do want to say that. Michelle's i have run out of crafts is my new metaphor for the moment that we're in in this. Pandemic meghan tito. Have you run out of crafts. Are we let me. Just tell you guys. The other day. I lost mckee's for a very short period of time and i lost my mind in a way that was truly disproportionate the loss of the car keys. Because it was like i don't go anywhere. So how can. I have lost my car keys. I mean i kinda out of crafts you guys. I mean that has definitely happened to me that it was something various mall like. I think i dropped a glass one day and it broke and i was like. I can't do anything. I can't even put my glasses away in in the cupboard. what has life definitely out of crafts. I love that. I i actually one funny thing that happened to me was In september of last year. I got a call from from my dry cleaner and he said tito you need to come get your dry cleaning from march walking all these shoots that were and i literally. I miss him. 'cause i had no reason to who actually and then i my favorite new hobby is using the snow blower that i got I have done Yesterday i did like four or five of my neighbor's driveway. And i think it speaks to the level of boredom combat blower that i have is like my new favorite best one. If you're excited to be running the snowblower snowstorm for multiple houses. Tito yes you have hit the wall all right. I want to grab one more call here and then in probably going to have to say goodbye to everybody. Let's grab katie. In chatham katie briefly On my fiance. And i both retire. Keep hobbies is actually a wonderful do but we can recover world so much Right here having to go. We became foster parents. Don't three weeks ago. Got flipped upside down with a beautiful five year old. And that's our kobe response. Katie that is beautiful so in our last minute each tito meghan service is a wonderful way to break through that wall. What's what's one act of service that you might have people think about tito you i briefly. I think there's two right now. One of the most important pieces as People speaking about the vaccine and educating individuals about the vaccine. One of the disparity that that i've seen Is something that one of my friends thaddeus miles Who often post online. Who runs a black joy Hashtag and fifty percent of the people have gotten the vaccine or white eleven percent are black and so. There's a huge disparity Racially in terms of people who actually getting the vaccine and that will translate into people living or dying and i think one of the most important service pieces that we can do is make sure that we educate folks about the life savings vaccine. That's out there and push through. The noise makes people's lives are saved. Thanks for that. Reminder megan thirty seconds or so wanting for i would say Introduce yourself to your neighbors if you haven't already I lived in my house for eight years and knew some of my neighbors. But now i know almost all of them and it has been wonderful to meet new people and talk to people in all different stages of life and so. I know that we can be kind of like a frosty. I think that It would do you good to meet your neighbors. You know look out for each other. Collect each other's mail look who has what kind of thing and i think that rich natura people to see how you can help them is going to help you feel better. That is meghan. Kelly who media editor at wbz and tito jackson former boston city councilor and ceo verdant medical cannabis company. Paris allston wants me to remind you both. Are everyone have celebrity names. And we're taking all the women so thank you for bringing your celebrity vibe to the show today thanks to both of you thank you. We say a bittersweet goodbye to producers. Zoe who is leaving the show after four years for her next adventure as producer. Walt whitman puts it is a force of nature. He notes that we have all enjoyed moments when guests have called it. So show chris. Siddiq says she is everything. You could want in a teammate including a relentless forces as a producer and a ferocious ally for her colleagues parasol stein compared zoe to jane lynch with a lady gaga charm and that was just too good so jamie bologna. Who notes that. He's gonna miss. He's energy warmth sparkle and talent pulled this from an interview. Zoe did with jane lynch in two thousand nine hundred ninety. I was a big fan of glee. I was a stage manager. Musical theater kid morton performer. But when you're for halloween. I dressed up like this is like two thousand and ten always net. Great that's wonderful. You look fantastic circle. Yeah i'm honored. It's great when he formally hired zoe in two thousand eighteen. After her internship our executive producer who test healthy declared the first win on. This primary day goes to radio boston. Well zoe you have been a win for us. Every day since i and we cannot wait to see what you will do next in the world god speed. We will miss you.

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BPR Full Show 10/22/20: Small 'D' Democracy & Capital 'A' Anxiety

Boston Public Radio Podcast

2:46:01 hr | 7 months ago

BPR Full Show 10/22/20: Small 'D' Democracy & Capital 'A' Anxiety

"Support for Boston. Public radio comes from CIC health providing routine COVID, nineteen testing solutions that help make work school and life safer. You can visit CIC DASH HEALTH DOT COM to learn more and PNC. PNC Bank has made a home in the heart of Greater Boston investing time talent and resources in Massachusetts communities helping to improve the places we call home PNC bank National Association member FDIC. I had both in public radio millions of ballots have already been cast recent counties but the number of undecided voters at a measly five percent of the electorate. So what's the point of tonight's debate between President Trump's Joe Biden. Trump showing in the polls though might one last primetime debate give him a push across the finish line expresses Chuck Todd joins US and just a couple minutes to preview the final presidential debate on Jared Bowen in for Marjorie Eagles, grand jury tasked with looking into the killing it Brianna Taylor stirred protests after no officers charged directly with her death. And anonymous JER is now revealing. They weren't even given the option to indict the officers for murder. Meanwhile, one of the officers involved says the protests simply unwarranted to break down the latest. Andrea. Cabrera joins US ahead on Boston public radio. On the Boston Public Ready. I'm Jim Brady Margery EAGAN. Is. Yet again, sitting in yet again is executive arts editor Gbh jarred bone good morning. Good Jim. So for four years, Barack Obama's frustrated as supporters with the reluctance to denounce Donald Trump that he make up for it yesterday with his scathing unsparing critique of trump's presidency hitting the campaign trail for Biden in Pennsylvania Obama held a rally held around table took to the streets of Philly. My hometown masking up an amplifying is call for voter turnout with bullhorn. With that bullhorn might also given trump and idea of how to circumvent the mute button. It tonight's final presidential debate moderated by a colleague of our guest joining us lunch on this and other headlines is Chuck Todd Chuck's the moderator of meet the press. You can catch on Sunday mornings at ten thirty and NBC Boston Channel Ten among providers also, the host of meet the press daily and MSNBC and the Political Director for NBC News Hello Chuck Todd. Well other major there. So let's go back to President Obama appearing in Philadelphia yesterday lot lots of horns honking, which is took. Applause for a Democratic Rally anyway where their social SOCI- distance gathering. We keep hearing so much that little can do. There's little that can be done to change the tenor of people's decisions anyway, and perhaps even participation. So many people have voted. So what does it do to have Barack Obama now out on the stump for Joe Biden? Well. I mean look where they sent him. This is still healthy a place that they want to. you know they they don't WanNa come up forty thousand short in Pennsylvania again and so and. This is this to me was was was about get out the vote efforts. This is about. firing up that last remaining. You know maybe it's somebody WHO's not tired of about but does like the President I mean I think he's a pretty good a pretty good surrogate the have out there for him and I think frankly I've thought about this you know. four years ago I think one of the reasons he. He wasn't as effective for Hillary. Clinton. Is is voters that that you know Clinton where rivals? I think he's more effective for Joe. Biden because. That's that that the public views them as partners. So I think he's more credible surrogate for for for Joe. Biden in a way that that he never was for Hillary Clinton. And don't think they didn't run against each other. You don't think it's the danger of the outshine. Well, they did against each other but a long time ago. Yeah. Because they serve together eight years it. It does change things right and and they're not appearing together. So I don't think you know what you mean about the only but they're not a parent they're not together. You know because for me you know during the so actually don't think you have to worry about that at all I think there's no. Where we all know that this is the that that Joe Biden Barack Obama that's been Joe Biden also donald trump that's sort of the point right? That's sort of the strength of this candidacy. Yeah. I think the guy who doesn't like weed every second of the day or does it read diarrhea of the mouth every second you know? One last thing on this lily, Tomlin's great line was no matter how cynical I get? I. Just can't keep up and I sort of feel like I'm in the same boat I'm watching this hastily called press conference last night on Iran and Iran Russian interference with the director of national intelligence you know sort of a trump sycophant and and the head of the FBI and can't stop thinking. Did they have this on such short notice because the president told them to help deflect attention away from all the attention Obama was getting is that unfairly cynical? I. Here's what I. I don't think it's unfairly cynical. You are cynical. Yes. View. I but I understand the reason. I say fair and I've thought about this too the reason there's so much skepticism about anything that Radcliffe says. Is. Not. Because the news media invented it it's because you know this is what Donald Trump has done. He's he's burned. You know he's burned the credibility of of so many entities and that. You know my concern is that this is a legitimate warning that the F. B. I wanted to make, and because of Radcliffe presence because of the president's rhetoric, the public doesn't take it as seriously as they should, and that is a concern I had I think the president has so. damage the intelligence community so damaged the credibility, FBI. So damage the credibility that Justice Department. Then I think everybody takes these announcements with a grain of salt. I. You Know I. It it is. It is You know the RATCLIFFE. that. It did seem odd that he decided to characterize what Iran was doing when he didn't do that before and it didn't really sort of comport but obviously had an audience of one that he wanted to please so. It. My point is is I. Don't think you'd be I. Don't think it's unfair. I think they've earned your cynicism I think the president has been four years making you cynical. And that's why I don't think it's unfair. They he create he made this. And now he's to live in it. Speaking of sending messages, the Senate, Judiciary Committee, Republicans, side of it anyway just approved or confirm judge amy conybeare it to proceed for the full vote Democrats were absence. What happens coming out of this with with the Democrats have done. Not much, I, mean, they just didn't they WANNA give less legitimacy to this and I and I you know I guess that's what they decided to do. You know there were some that said they should have boycotted the entire hearing process not just this vote but. You know I think I actually they. They use the hearings about as well as they could under the circumstances to move message particularly in healthcare but no, she's going to the Supreme Court. and you know I think what the Democrats did today is not just largely symbolic. It was about and I don't you know doesn't really. have. Much of an impact by. This is less than really bitter feeling and if Democrats keep control of the Senate. I do think Filibusters Gone I. Don't think they're gonNA. The first thing they're going to tackle as the courts and it's GonNa. Be Interesting I had somebody theorized to me that. That the that That covert really might end up being the trigger for killing the filibuster that that the first time Mitch McConnell tries to stop. That the Democrats want to be able to kill the filibuster for a reason that doesn't feel partisan. And so keep an eye on covert released in mid-january if Democrats get control and the trigger for that, and then you know then we're talking DC statehood which I think the biggest that's the biggest game changer, and all of that should be DC stated because you get to New Democratic senator. Chuck, I don't want to get myself to aggravated. So early in the show, some do this as briefly as possible. My take away from this whole process I totally agree with you that most of the Democrats use their time. Incredibly. Well as best as one can however, the ultimate proof to me of the old adage Republicans know how to fight particularly Mitch McConnell and the Democrats don't. namely. Dianne Feinstein. This hug of Lindsey Graham at the end of this. Sham process in the wake of garlanded Cetera and this quote whatever it was that she allegedly said to Senator Graham the best set of hearings I've participated. I. Know this speculation as to whether or not show get dumped at assuming the Democrats take control the Senate. It they really it is the gang that couldn't shoot straight was that is that, how do they? How do they allow that? Luck. Because you do have an older Kabbalah. Democratic senators. WHO. Missed the good old days whatever you think the good old days were okay for Dianne Feinstein. I guess she thinks that's the nineties. but you know because she got elected in ninety two but you know there's this older group of senators. Patrick Layhee, I'd be Joe. Biden. was part of this. Right. which is why he's uncomfortable with the court packing that you know. There's this you know the Senate senators that have been there longer than term believe they're better than every other politician right? The the there's this mindset that no, no, no. No, we're not like the idiots in the house We're not like the partisans in the White House. We're the cooling saucer. We we know how to come together. We know how to compromise. Factors. That's not the United States Senate that had been the United States Senate. Arguably in this century, we haven't seen that version of the US. Senate right. We we've seen a Senate that has been much more like acting like the House of Representatives. So back to you know we haven't seen the Senate the Senate that people talk about honestly since the eighties now much ninety. So it doesn't exist but I do think what I would say is this Feinstein's comments are a reminder she she's not alone. She's just one of the few that accidentally spoke publicly and there is a small group, but they're older Democratic senators who? Art Don't want to be the ones responsible. For for for. Creating creating this new Senate again and and you know look I think there are more. I think now more senators are sort of in line with you jim on this sort of like, Hey, let's deal with the reality that we have not the reality that wish we had and so I, think that's where we're headed but. But I would say this is. Probably speaks for more senators than you might sick. Not as crazy Graham. But in just wishing that we had the old ways back. So Chuck I'm wondering what the level of Jim Brady and Lily Tomlin cynicism is going to be after tonight's debate. I mean, I think we all know what we're anticipating tonight. What what could unfold tonight I'm trying to read into the all the time that Joe Biden is spending this week and in debate prep. All to wonder how critical this is at the end of the day anyway. Well you know this is one of those you can't loose. So it's critical by doesn't need a win this debate, but he can't lose the demand right and and he just needs to he just needs to hold his own. it's you know but this is such A. This is such a weird thing that have to talk about. I. Mean We all know what the issue is. Is the prison United States going to behave himself if he does then maybe we learned from this debate if he doesn't, it's another debacle. And what you know, what good does it do? I look I I think the president's been behaving. He bathes the radically lot. I think he behaved to radically more since he left the hospital, you can draw whatever conclusions from that but. I mean, let's be realistic here he's behavior has. been really odd. Compared to other people that had to go into the hospital for the virus. And you know I. I have no idea what to expect from him tonight. But I think we've learned assume more manic. And more mannequin aggressive version of him. Has, your colleague who he thinks is. And unfair and owned by the Democrats doing with What is it? Eleven ten hours ago. And she's She's Easily. The most prepared person on that stage tonight. I promise you. Them both candidates I I just you know I I have I have enormous coughing in her and she's not she's been through his before he's tried to bully her before she doesn't rattle. She stubbornly fair. She just you know she knows this isn't about her and she doesn't she's not gonNA. Make that mistake anyway she's just she's ready. She's ready look but the issue is not her the issues Donald. Trump. He. He he you know just like it wasn't Chris, Wallace? His fault it was Donald Trump. Now. And at the end of the day, what is he going to do is he going to behave like a normal? Human being you know that would I mean that was what was so I in sometimes where we in the media sometimes we gotTA. Say. What it is like he didn't. He didn't behave like a normal human being to. Forget whether he'd be like a normal presidential candidate. And I think we just not sometimes we just don't sometimes. Say What we Mean there is none of us would have tolerated anybody we know behaving. We'd have all been crunched whether at a P meeting. or or pregnancy. Well this makes me wonder how much of this is just stunt performance you set a radic and coming out of the hospital but but this guy who knows programming he knows how he knows how to get people talking being in front of the cameras I I kept thinking in the back of my mind over the last few weeks. When is he going to walk out of an interview and then sure enough he did that with Leslie Stahl which just felt like something that was intentional and not necessarily organic everything. Yeah. I don't disagree it. All feels it's like somebody sent me a stat from last night that the reporter noted which was at at. Donald Trump's rally. He had four hundred mess mentions but not one amy Barrett mention. I mean, he doesn't even know how to run for reelection. He doesn't know how to talk about things that you would say a normal candidate would talk about these things. You know I. It's interesting. How much of this is performance art? I will say this. It does feel like Donald Trump's desperately trying to recreate oct twenty sixteen, Right. So instead of Hillary. Clinton emails and James Call Me Letters. He's looking for Christopher wray letters and honor by email. Right? He does there is he's brought Corey Lewandowski back on the trail with them. It's like. He's trying to. You know all else failed well, maybe I can recreate twenty sixteen. So. I just you know whether that's pure performance art whether it's a Mac version of them. It it some form of that and and I, think you know I I assume tonight, he try so hard to to to push the hundred story that it just sort of. It gets in his own way. Yeah I have to say. My take on. This is more what you I I don't think trump changes anything I think you're lying whatever it was biden doesn't need to win. He just can't lose I think that he's got to make it through ninety minutes intact but you know before you go only minute left here I. You probably are aware that margin I always on edge and I'm always planning ahead and tell me some day that the jobs no longer mind kind of thing. So I assume that's Rudy Giuliani is doing he's hedging his bets basically saying if Donald Trump isn't reelected, I can go in acting I can go into film. Do you think that's what the Borat thing was all about choctaw I have to say the. You. Know the biggest loser twenty, twenty, it's been Giuliani has anybody damaged his own I mean talk about an obituary that has has to be massively rid. If you've written that. Times you two term mayor originally passed away tonight. It up right and now look what he's done to himself. I, mean he is. He's become I don't know what to I, but he's just become just a a caricature of himself. A caricature of what others I mean you know how easy of a bark was Rudy Detach Baron Cohen could do. Think about fat think about how easy it was, for Sasa. Successor Baron. Cohen can infiltrate Rudy Giuliani's world. Then I think the Russians have to. Move. On that note, pleasure to talk to you Chuck Todd enjoy the debate with your colleague. Next week take you. Got It. Thank you so much chuck todd joins US every week he's the moderator of meet the press which you can catch. Sunday. Mornings at ten thirty on NBC Boston. That's channel. Ten. On most providers, he's also the host of meet the press daily on on MSNBC and the Political Director for NBC, News Up. Next open up the lines and ask you about President Barack. Obama will his rebuke of Donald Trump's presidency helped biden or hurt him keep your dial on eighty nine seven Gbh Boston public radio. Welcome back to Boston public radio jared bones sitting in for Marguerite Jim Brady what inspired Donald trump to run for president in two thousand, sixteen small group reporters and political analysts. It had everything to do with that two thousand eleven White House correspondents. Association dinner. Remember it. WE'RE DONALD TRUMP was recurring punchline from Obama making fun of celebrity, apprentice lampooning trunks trump's fixation with his birth certificate in two thousand sixteen. Here's what the New York Times. Maggie Haberman Alex. Burns wrote about the mortification trump experience quote that evening of Public Abasement rather than sending Mr trump away, accelerated his ferocious efforts to gain stature in the political world. If that's what Obama taking swipes at trump did in two thousand eleven. What effect will Obama's latest rebuke of trump have on the election we let. We know that he continues to do business with China because he's got a secret Chinese bank account. How is that possible of the TAXES DONALD TRUMP? He may be sending more to foreign governments. Then he pays in the United States, he hasn't shown any interest in doing the work. Or helping anybody but himself and his friends we're treating the president's Like, a reality show that he can use to get attention and by the way even then as TV ratings are down. So you know that upsets. So, Obama gave yesterday a scathing critique of president trump's. At chosen and trump at a campaign rally in Philly while he probably articulated how lot of never-trumpers are feeling but let's for years attacking trump that way do anything to win over the voters who Biden needs most eight, seven, seven, three, zero, eighty, nine, seventy you think Obama's return to politics will help Biden or possibly hurt him in while you're at it by the way if you WanNa comment on what your expectations are for tonight's debate the final debate with twelve days to go give us a vase at eight, seven, seven, three, zero, one, eighty, nine, seventy. Chuck before I ask talk about the help or hurt and he said, you know Biden wasn't on the stage with them. So there's not that kind of comparison that was one issue would sort of like. A. Obama, such a huge personal presence and we haven't seen him like that and so I thought it might hurt. Biden. But I hadn't. Thought. About what I just said, which is that What's the value of attacking trump like that or is there a value when all of the converted Biden voters are already there? Does it get the fence sitters and they're still a few and obviously Pennsylvania's only decided by what forty five thousand votes I think in the last election does that help or does it push people away? What was your reaction I thought by the way I thought he was brilliant and it was a brilliant speech and I love the honking car horns like you mentioned before. But do you think it helped actually I? Don't think it has anything to do with what you're talking about I, think it all has to do with polling and I think the Democrats are probably scared that the the people who will think okay. We've got this in the bag now I don't necessarily have to expend all of this effort to get my ballot male. Dan Although it's probably too late at this point or or have to worry about standing in line because it seems like this is if I'm a Democrat this is seems like it's going to go the way I want your. I think we know that the Bronco is not going to pull any trump supporters over I think we all he can really hope to do. We know that there are so few cents fence sitters at this point. The only thing he can do is make the case. That this is by no means in the bag and they absolutely have to fire up the base and remind the base of why it's important for everybody to get out human humanly possible. I think that's so get out the vote exercise yesterday essentially what actually that's probably a better analysis than either a mind and the second thing before we get to the calls at eight, seven, seven, three, zero, one, eighty, nine, seventy, as I said the chuck I I don't think there's anything that trump is going to do tonight even if he act to use his words from years ago, you won't believe how presidential I'm going to be once I'm sworn in. Even. If he control himself I don't think it gets them anything if he loses it again which I assume he will. I don't think it loses him any anymore I think the first thing chuck said is huge. Doesn't item paraphrasing chuck out I don't think a matters if Joe Biden wins this, what matters is if he loses it. There still are some doubts and you hear a lot of people saying. I'm not really voting for Joe Biden vote for Joe Biden I'm voting against Donald Trump and I think Biden's gotTa give a competent performance tonight. To allay fears, people, I'm not suggesting are bed abandoned Pieta, crappy performance but on the margins in light of the fact, a lot of experts say don't believe these ten point spreads. This is going to tighten as we go through the final twelve days I think the issue is Biden's performance tonight not really Donald Trump's I, agree I think his biggest Achilles heel right now is his age and people are GonNa be really paying attention to how he answers and and how competent he seems I hate to say that but that has been a lot of the conversation because he because of his age so whereas the president might have to make some argument tonight that he's presidential. Joe Biden has to demonstrate his continued competence. and. You'll have more opportunity to do that with the mics being cut and having more opportunity to answer whereas you allowed himself to a great measure we run over by Donald Trump. Last time you know by the way and we'll get to the calls and set the notion that anybody thinks that they're six SEC. Sections of the debate for people have been playing a paying close attention. You know this whole muting the Mike thing is not when the other guy is speaking it's only when the other guy is speaking in making his first statement is two minutes statements on each of the six topics. Once you get through that first four minutes, two minutes in two minutes, the remainder of. The time they can all go nuts but if anybody thinks he's even GonNa, make it through the first two minutes. He being Donald Trump without making some snide comment that you sort of hear in the background. I. Think you're crazy. Don't you? You just made the point so we have a little insight and TV here we know how it works. So what we're hearing at Home is going to be what the audio engineers want us to hear by cutting the Mike. If you're in the hall and you don't have an earpiece, you don't know that your voice is being cut off. So we could hear if Donald Trump continues to interrupt he thinks he's interrupting, but we will just here this sort of disembodied voice being picked up from Joe Biden's. Mike, which will make it even more awkward and strange. So any case that's tonight at nine o'clock will be carrying it here can't be in front of a television set. But what do you think about the Obama thing yesterday and is that a net plus jared case which I think is a pretty compelling one wasn't about convincing anybody about convincing them they'll show up and vote. Get out the vote kind of thing I worried because he was so. Obama and so he was a terrific speech to like the guy who know it was just a terrific speech and boy was having fun. You can tell he missed audience really having fun this thing but does it is it a net benefit for the guy? He's supporting his former vice president eight, seven, seven, three, zero one, eighty, nine, seventy. Let's start in watertown with Mattie hi, Manny. Hi Jared Hi, Jim? How are you? Good. So I agree with jared I agree with everything you've both said. It certainly can't hurt Joe Biden as I said to the girl who answered the phone it was such a like it was so nice to hear call her sentences. That meant something. You Know Joe Biden is a good speaker, but you know when Obama speaks it's like, oh, boy, he's so and I miss that. So I miss Yeah and I. Chuck Todd said something interesting about how? trump's mental state is a little more unbalanced since his covid test positive test. And it is concerning especially there's something going on in Russia's some fifty year arms. We've been discussing for four years when from the day that Marjorie used the term unhinged before people were saying those kinds of things about candidate trump about his mental state and the unwillingness of people who have the power members of Congress cabinet to take some responsibility for making assessments about it because he's got a lot of power, he being the president. So Chuck has been pretty honest about it and I'm with you I think it's a serious concern that most people aren't willing to touch, and by the way Mattie it's not just most politicians. It's most press people all of whom with whom I've spoken are thinking it and very few have the courage to talk about many. Thanks for the call. Appreciate. I feel like I'm bringing a little bit of arts background bear here but I feel like, I, you can really can to some degree write the script. Donald. Donald Trump I said this with Chuck Todd, just a moment ago to. Somebody. WHO's used to being in front of the camera? He knows what it takes to get people talking. He knows he knows how he can. He can create drama and these little moments I, truly was expecting this the what's the what's one of the few things he has left but to barge out of an interview I mean who does that especially when you know that Donald trump loves interviews, he loves that combative back and forth he loves to be in control and thinks he's won them. So it makes no sense. that. He would storm out and I I truly believe that this is something he had planned to do. Yeah. I. Hear Ya and it makes sense on in one part but the other side is the only likes more than whatever you described as he likes winning the only thing he likes less than that is a being humiliated. He's on the verge. If these numbers are right about a of a crushing loss I, know it could change in twelve days it may. But if the election were today, which is which it's not. No sane person would think his behavior at the first debate helps them no sane person by the way it's one of the few things were Republicans have publicly said Hey Mr President maybe should change the strategy. Nobody cares about Hunter Biden they care about staying alive during coronavirus than they care about getting their jobs back as soon as possible. So they can pay their bills and feed their family I. Think the guy is totally gone off the deep end it may be the drugs may be the the the after effect of having a corona virus. It may because he's panicked about what seems to be a crushing loss that is imminent but I don't see any of this stuff works there's advantage. Fool's errand on my part, but if you try to understand but if you try to trace the behavior, even if he loses even if he loses by an epic margin I, think he's somebody who's going to be able to justify it in his head he he will explain it away in the way that he's explained else that he's just got this confidence in the way he thinks maybe, which is also what I've heard from. You know at least one or two conversations I've had over last decade of people who worked with him is that they were just struck by his confidence and so Roy, Cohn thing. Even when you have it, you just keep plowing ahead and do the positive warrior and Paxton you're in Boston Public Radio Lori. Hi Jim. This is my second time this week I got through we're going to have your what's up. I have three points. The first one is I. Didn't think that Biden should have gone through with to this debate I didn't think it was necessary. The only way I think it is is if it's on regular local channels instead of cable, so that all the people that watch Fox only and never see the CNN debates will actually see a measured candidate talking about facts and they might learn something. The second thing is I think Obama I'm glad that he spoke out. I'm just disappointed that he hasn't before today but I think it will help. And then the third thing is I hope that Biden because he did decide to do the debate to uses this time as free advertising to remind. Voters that when Obama was president that John Boehner and Mitch McConnell blocked and obstructed almost everything they try to do for eight years and unless we take back the Senate and get those Senate votes in Michigan and Georgia and elsewhere, it'll be more of the same. So I hope Biden campaign is listening and he urged voters to vote for Democratic senators. Then, Morinho, tonight, can we go back to your second point? You think Obama helped abide help Biden as jared described in getting out the vote that already support or expanding his base. maybe expanding the base with Democrats who are still on the fan to aren't really voters really. They definitely didn't for Hillary. Donau. Because is in Pennsylvania I'm hoping he has urged some people to come out to vote who normally don't. We shall see Laurie thanks for the call I. Think did Obama knocked out of Pennsylvania for Hillary Clinton? At the end. Yeah. Well, this is sort of the end to you know I mean we're do you believe I say the Margaret Twelve days I was gonNA say twelve days they'll over is not even close to over on November. Third in all likelihood but twelve days until at least the voting stops. Let's go to Brooklyn Lawrence here in Boston public radio welcome hi. Lawrence I lawrence. Try Third. Lawrence. You there. Let's put Lawrence on hold eight, seven, seven, three, zero, one, eighty, nine, seventy, Lawrence. We'll get back to you in a second where we going next friends in Brighton. Where we go next, we'RE GOING TO BILL IN CHUMSFORD I bill. Mind Jim Jared. How are we read this morning? We are excellent. Thank you. We are too and I think. I have a little twist on this. I think Obama's speech was aimed right at president trump and I think this is why because if you think about it, everybody's saying the same thing which I disagree with but they think that this whole thing, this last debate trump is off the wheel off the road and off the rails but I think that's been him from the beginning but his thing his inside people for the last two weeks been saying we've got to get this guy to be more focused and stay on track and NOCCO crazy. We'll yesterday Obama just set him off he. He. Really was a thriftily back trump's gonNA react to it tomorrow night when Biden brings it up in trump's gonna go off the rails again like he does in one last thing for the Frisk three years, people have been afraid to say the trump was lying. But now we have to say that he is mentally got some issues. We don't want to say but it's a fact just like wanting for three years I think gets some real mental inches bill. That's a really interesting analysis of the Obama thing I mean, that is a really the timing the night before the debate. That's. A real interesting analysis. Thank you for your call. We appreciate you buy that jared I by both counts actually I absolutely I think that's a great theory that he was bathing him and I also think that having watched that debate I didn't think that that Donald trump lost his badly as everybody said, he did because he was the person his base wants to be out there and he's he's fulfilling a role to go back to God either I mean you don't have to be a political genius to know that if Donald, trump just wins his base he's coming in second he's got. To expand a little bit. So in light of the fact to quote the man himself, I could shoot somebody on fifth avenue not lose a voter you're not gonNA lose those voters no matter what you do. They are totally loyal the goal of a sane or semi sane politician is you got expand a little bit if you want to go home the winner on election, I? Do think he picked up one vote that he didn't have in the first debate. Well, I don't think it's well, I think it's possible because he also go to Joe Biden saying some things come on all. We did shut up to set. Presidential and that's something that Donald Trump very effectively did and I think that's why Joe Biden has taken himself off the campaign trail and why he has spent so much time preparing for the debate this week, how'd you like to be Kristen Welker it not only are? Do you have to control the President United States in what is the final debate in a race where he's losing number two he's not very good with women. Particularly not very comfortable with black women. This. Well, IT'S A. Family Rooney when I came into the office the next morning, we're socially distance in the office but I said. Lesson number one here. Don't ever accept that job to the debate moderator because there is no winning ever. Well I'll tell you. She's I. I haven't I. Don't know if she's ever done a debate I think she's pretty competent reporter, but obviously, it's a different skill. She's quite competent reporter, very different skill when you're doing this with the most powerful person in the world and the guy who wants to be the most powerful person in the world. But I am really really looking forward to this Lawrence you're in Brooklyn will try again. Hey there. Hey Listen. I Jim. I don't think that he's capable of expanding is base. And I think that. When he speaks his base, you know. The did up. And the same thing can be said for us when Obama. Speaks? Because to hear him speak as like a previous speaker Matty said. Just, to hear someone that has such a grip on the vocabulary and singlish language is viewed. It's beautiful. It really is we miss it we hunger for that. And I think that it's going to be a and for sure and I would just like to think that matter what Obama has said he has spoken for all of us. The way that the former president has spoken his base, those the people that would like to say all those things to someone in their life, but they don't have the stones to do it. And Obama has spoken for a lot of us. That do have the stones and do have the vocabulary to speak it, but we don't have the. The crowd and we don't get the volume and I think that Obama date yesterday and I hope he does it again before the Election Lauren Sang's we're glad you held on. I don't know jared scheduled to do anything else I should know this I don't know I know he did a bunch of things in Philly or at least in Pennsylvania I'm not sure all in Philadelphia. I don't know if he's doing more I, mean there are the three, Wisconsin Twenty three thousand votes lies Time Michigan I. Hope I get these three right was ten thousand votes last time obviously all for trump and Pennsylvania I think was forty, five or forty, six thousand. So you can understand how important they are in all three states I believe the polling shows pretty significant leads for. Joe Biden. So eight, seven, seven, three, zero, one, eighty, nine, seven, we have two things on the table. One is what your reaction to the comments from President Obama were yesterday where they're a help or not to his candidate Joe Biden and what's your expectation for night? What are you looking for what you nervous about in terms of tonight Let's go to Kira. I here. Hi Hi. How Tim and jared how you? Thanks. Thanks for taking my phone call to you I I just want to say that I really think that. With this with the pivotal times that we're living in right now. And this is just GONNA be You know I'm really hoping that the wonderful You know I think is only going to help things I'm hoping Because he's kind of a voice of reason, and you know he's steady on you know and. Then, also, tonight. With respect to the debate I really think the moderator is I just? I revere that way because it, you almost have to neutralize the. All the all the antics onsite coming from the one. You know, and then you know unfairness I really hope that things can go a little more smoothly. We'll SORTA WHY and so do we all I. Have to say cure as someone who's moderated a few debates obviously not at that level a couple of weeks ago we did a a Senate debate Marjorie and I. It is really nerve wracking whether you're doing a city council debate whether you're doing a Senate debate. I can't even imagine waking up here. Thanks for your call on a morning like today knowing that what hundred million people in the United States are going to be all over the world they're all wondering if you will lose control like Chris Wallace point that does that seem like a century ago Like a Chris Wallace does and you know I have to say with wind no a little bit about Kristen Welker work most people probably never heard of her before just know that she's a reporter NBC. This is her stamp you know and it's sort of like I was never a big Savannah Guthrie Fan. I thought Savannah Guthrie was nothing short of brilliant at. That town hall the other night she was so prepared and so strong, and so good as compared to how pathetic Chris Wallace performance was that I'm GonNa Meyer of Chris Wallace has worked to just didn't have it that night boy talk about all eyes on you would you not be like a puddle of Goo today in anticipation of this, I lose probably thirteen pounds. Just in. The today, I mean the responsibility that you have is just absolutely tremendous. How about your rep for responsibility screw the Abbot Reputation? How does Chris Wallace go out of the house? He's doing an interview the next day with the New York. Times and again, a lot of people think it wasn't his fault there's nothing you can do I don't agree with that too. I don't I think he acquitted himself well, actually that's one. It's hard. We're talking about Barack Obama's return to politics. We're asking you is he helping vice president on his way to the presidency or hurting him this eighty nine seven Gbh Boston public radio. Welcome back to Boston Public Radio Jim Brady engineered bone sitting from artery. We're talking about, Barack Obama yesterday in Pennsylvania asking you hit helping his candidate Joe Biden or hurting him by returning the spotlight with his damning assessment of trump's presidency, which is very unusual not just for this former president but for any former president and we are now just how many hours away nine hours and fifteen minutes away from the final debate what are your expectations of the two candidates? tonight eight, seven, seven, three, zero, one, eight, hundred, seventy just one unrelated note. But I, think it's important because it's something talked about a lot Julie Brown is the brilliant reporter I think for the Miami Herald who did essentially the Epstein reporting Early on says in a four hundred, this is breaking new. She says an hour ago in a four hundred plus page deposition taken in two thousand sixteen accused sex trafficker is lane that your surname Maxwell Colleen repeatedly going whatever is then is knowing any underage girls wherever present with Epstein, the documents are heavily redacted get this names blacked out include Prince Andrew, and Bill Clinton. Eight seven seven again I. Don't know what? Context Eight, seven, seven, three, zero, one. Boy, given seen him out on the stump for. A for Joe Benigno. Also, you haven't seen that on the stump for his wife Hillary Clinton the last nominee of this party if we have either the Clintons been out there anywhere for Baden I'm not suggesting they were willing to I'm sure bill particular would love to. But I guess they are not who Joe Biden, his campaign or looking for. Does immediately come to mind man north reading. Hi How you doing we're good. Thank you for taking my call. First off, we all know why? We on the White Bill Clinton's in that. In that four hundred pages while we don't know exactly that he had a relationship team but that's Why? Come on okay and I think Obama's hurting you show when the Biden's weekend can't close the deal on himself bringing up uncorroborated evidence about China bank accounts and. Didn't, and then Chris talk talking about his mental capacity after get a little but he's shuts down any conversation about Biden's mental capacity. I, mean I don't think shutdown. Show? By the way, the China can if I may met, the China Bank account is reporting from his returns. It's not wild speculation. You can say it's totally innocent and it's fine but apparently paid one, hundred, Eighty, eight, thousand dollars in taxes the China. Put that in context paying seven, hundred, fifty to the US even though he said at the debate, he paid millions and millions and millions. So where's the uncorroborated part? called. It a secret bag down not secret if actor not secret. Matt Matt Matt. He's the first presidential candidate in recent American history who refused to disclose his tax returns. The reason we know it is because in your times reporting not because of transparency by Donald trump it was kept secret by Donald Trump. I just believe of. Obama's making them making five. Look. Really. Week. Okay by the way I think that I don't know if he's making them look really week I. think the comparison is striking in Matt thank you for the call I mean, it was very interesting with Chuck Todd said, they weren't on the stage together which I think was a conscious thing I mean Obama not only looks young but is so full of life and. Vibrancy I mean people unlikely say this but I mean Joe Biden is seventy eight years old and when you are about to be on by the time, he would be sworn in where to become president and you look at video of him like any person who ages just like Donald Trump and he is not the Joe Biden of ten years ago when he was with Obama or at the Anita Hill hearings or before I mean, that is a fact it's not a condemnation. Of the man the one thing I'd say I have to agree with that I, think the Democrats. The voices, the punditry term I hate the punditry. Loses credibility when they're not willing to say like after that first debate I mean, you watch CNN and all the the Biden supports was brilliant performance. He just showed he allayed any fears people thought is just not true. Simply. That was not true. He is a he looks like a really capable guy who is seventy eight years old and about to start at seventy eight, the single hardest job on the planet. That's. It. Is, naive. It's not biased. It's naive. Listen Attleboro your next. Hi. Hi Good Morning I just want to share I developed bipolar disorder at age forty two, which is very unusual usually get new teens or twenties and for me it was because I was given try does apprentice, zone. And induced by bipolar and I can't help. But wonder if pats when the president has been undergoing might induce bipolar enhanced because he's really displayed a lot of the symptoms such as mania grandiosity you know and instead of and so that's my to fit. Well, thank you I don't I don't think. I don't know I haven't heard people suggest a bipolar diagnosis, but a lot of people have not suggested but said the side effects of that steroid use taking decks and methods is that I think that's I'm maybe gotten a Rumba whatever it is third was has very serious side effects and some of the side effects not all cases are very dramatic mood swings rage. That's sort of thing and he took it. So it's all speculation not that he took it but what the impact was and you heard Chuck I decide his thank you for your call eight, seven, seven, three, zero, one, eighty, nine, hundred, seventy are you excited about tonight? Even said, are you into this or? Of course, I'll watch. But I, know I'm not excited because why we're just not because look at we're seeing in our country and in the future of leadership in this country, it's just such a scary and precarious thing I think to to to to look at how a presidential debate unfolded the last time and anticipate that this may happen again, we were tuning in because we wanNA see presidential leaders and to see Donald Trump. Not, essentially, be presidential and to see him get Joe Biden not be present presidential and some of the comments that he made. It's very unnerving. We want leadership right now this is kind of crisis by the way. Let me just clarify what I said to you before though I think you you see what you might get it which I think is the value of these whether you like one likes it or not. Marjorie always accuses me of doing false equivalency stuff. So I want to make sure I don't hear I didn't like when Biden said shut up to the president had states I didn't like it at all but for anybody to suggest I, don't know if you were that the the behavior of Joe Biden when it was not stellar came even close to the grotesque childish behavior of the United States is is unfair. Trump was totally out of control totally childish totally disrespectful totally unpresidential couple of times. Joe Biden said an acted in ways that I wish he had not but I think it's totally apples and oranges disagree with them. Well, I'm looking at it in its totality no, I don't. Agree I wasn't suggesting that we didn't see anything that was at a Presidential Joe Biden I'm not saying that at all but I I hate to I hate to see him basically get in the muck with with Donald. Trump. and. Again to because he's he's supposed to be I think he's taken himself off so that he can be fortified this time. So that might not necessarily happen again but I mean we've all we've all experienced generations in decades of presidential debates now and I think it was pretty it was it was sad to see what we saw time and time again where everybody's stressed out who's anxious everybody's looking for some glimmer of optimism and we didn't see A. Blast time. Well, I'm a cup nine tenths empty come. God but I'm hopeful tonight will be better. So I don't know why let's check in at eleven one. Let's not actually I. Hope. I, pronounce. Is it oh deed in Western mass that I get it right In Western, dead, I'm so sorry dead my apologies. Thanks for calling. Appreciate. Not No problem. Thank you I was I'm watching trump and he's not looking for any more votes. And he's not looking to solidify his base. What he's doing is setting up a rage. Now situation. So that as of November fourth, he can say look I've been I've been chipped election is rigged and you can do all sorts of illegal things in response you can have marshalls show up and take boxes of ballots that haven't been counted for all I know have been countered he can have things he can have results counted you can look to state legislatures to select boards electors that are not in a not consistent with the popular vote voted right. Right you know he can. He can declare if he's ahead. I don't know what they'll. Let's see. If he decides, he's the head at eight PM Eastern time on On Tuesday November thirty can say look at one you know. We talk about that. A second by the way, the Peace Bark Kelman was with us from the Atlantic couple of weeks ago about road a brilliant piece about exactly what you're talking about. Oh, dead but I I want to do with John. King. Urges to do regularly and talk about that night of November, third in what is being called the Red Mirage. The notion is that unless this is a landslide victory for Joe, Biden since many more of trump's voters will vote in person their ballots will be counted faster, which means it is not impossible donald trump could lead on the night of November third yet. When all votes including undercounted in the days after that, lose the election thus the Red Mirage dead I? Think you focused on a point people after be prepared that when Donald? Trump. If Donald Trump declares victory on November third, he may be the victor, but we won't know in all likelihood because so many millions of ballots will not yet be counted. So, thanks for bringing up the point and by the way he's not just waiting till November four th. He's Andrew Cabrera in about ten minutes is going to talk to us about voter suppression efforts that are ongoing as we speak in state after state around the country. So stay tuned to death I. Think she'll be singing your tune as as well. All right. Well, coming up, and then there were nine what the confirmation of Amy. Conybeare to the Supreme Court could mean for voting rights and the presidential election as Jim just mentioned Andrea Cabral is here to talk about that and a lot more keep your dial on eighty nine seven Gbh Boston public radio. Head on Boston public or after six months of closed doors. The Museum of Fine Arts in Boston reopened to the public with a comprehensive look at Artemisia Michelle. And the HIP. Hop Generation the museum hasn't been dorms time just a couple minutes director Matthew Teitelbaum joins us to detail the MFA ever keep the arts in pulsing vibrant and relic during the Vanden. I'm Jared Bowen in for Marjorie, the Boston school committee has voted unanimously to drop admissions tests for the city's prestigious exam schools for one year because of pandemic, instead the schools will make decisions of eligibility and acceptance based on grades, mcat scores, and zip codes in just a few minutes Paul rebel will join us to discuss the controversial proposal and what happens next. Our number two Boston Public Radio Marti Regan is offered bone executive arts. Editor GBH is sitting in hello there jared again, Jim you're just an update I. didn't hear the first minute of the NPR news. So my apologies everybody if they mentioned this, you know the Joe Biden was under pressure to say what he thought about court expansion number of Democrats including Ed Markey of said if they slammed through the barren nomination, we should do that Biden originally said he wasn't going to answer till after the election was a distraction than he told. George Stephanopoulos last week. Of course, he'd tell people what is position was before the election well, it turns out in an interview that is going to be on sixty minutes with Nora Donald, Sunday nights the same interview that trump walked out on i. don't think Biden walked out on his he said that what he will do is he will pick a bipartisan commission of scholars to study the issue about possible court overhaul and a whole variety of issues give them one hundred and eighty days to report back with recommendations. So he's sort of I guess. Trying to get around that issue with twelve days to go by the appointment of a commission in any case, joining us in line for another edition of lawn. Author is Andrew Cabrera Andrews former South County Sheriff Former Secretary of Public Safety for the Commonwealth of Massachusetts and now the CEO of ascend Andrew Corral. Well, hello. Well Hello. Start that is really not a good start. GAITO Andrea. Well, enough to to read a lot into that hello. Andrea. Let me just start by I. Know that Jimmy Maher Marjorie excuse me earlier this week hegemony Cobb a great. Me I need some water from. The New Yorker on for the piece that she did for frontline our colleagues frontline looking it's called whose vote counts looking at voter suppression around the country and continues working its way into the courts right up until this very moment can you give us a roundup of what you're seeing? On the Anti Voter Suppression Front at this point. On the anti voter suppression. We'll? Of course fighting voter voter suppression. Well. I think. A lot of it is the is a ground game I think people have a pretty good idea of all of the ways in which voter suppression is the Republicans are attempting to enforce voter suppression and and people should really take note of this and entire political party is trying to stand in the way of people voting because they can't win. If people vote, they can't win on policy they can't win on you know any any sort of Legitimate ground. So they're standing in the way. So part of the strategy is to overwhelm you know vote in overwhelming numbers and to make sure that the turnout in every single state. Is So spectacular that you you you put yourself a little bit ahead of the game in terms of beating back some of this oppression and we've already seen in early voting in a lot of states. The early voting has far far exceeded early voting in other years in some cases they just said in a place like North Carolina more people have voted in early voting north. Carolina. Then the total number of people who voted for Donald Trump in two thousand sixteen. So, we're talking you know over three million votes already in early voting, but there's also a ground game around. The Biden campaign and other a lot a number of other independent organizations and legal organizations to be right on the spot in all of these jurisdictions when there is active voter interference or voter intimidation at the polls or questions around the acceptance or rejection of votes. There are lawyers on the ground in very from what I can see a very well organized and well coordinated. Effort being led really by former Attorney General Eric holder to make sure that We're getting in the courts quickly on issues that are worthy of court intervention or that we're taking up issues at the state and local level where they need to be with things need to be challenged. So I think there are a number of ways that that this is going to be approached that said I mean you know we're talking about I'm talking about this a calm tone of voice as though this is normally the way an election should precede. This is the most abnormal abberant thing. I certainly experienced in my life where there's a fight over the ability of people to cast a vote, which is one of the most fundamental rights that every. Citizen in this country has and it's just astonishing that this is playing out this active voter suppression intimidation effort just playing out right in front of us and obstacles are being thrown every obstacle conceivable including foreign election, hijacking, and interference. to keep the vote for the elections from being fair and free, and which is essential to democracy. It's just. And we get I was talking to a friend of mine this morning about some of these state. Supreme Court decisions, and what he said to me and I'm in the spirit of full disclosure. He's a big time anti-trumpers. He's not crazy about Biden, but he's voting for him. He can't stand trump is he said, you know last few days there's been victories for people believe in Small d democracy in New Hampshire were as we know the attorney general. ruled. In favor of students who reside there better in school remotely, they can vote New Hampshire Pennsylvania, the supreme. Court with Roberts joining the Liberals for to four. Ruling stand that allowed to count ballots for an additional number of days even if the postmark is not clear that it was cast, by election, day North Carolina and Appellate Court. Did a similar sort of thing bad news out of Alabama which we'll talk about a minute and he said, well, in three of the four cases, the good guys won, and you're my response was when the good guys lose any of them then there's injustice and people have their votes tonight and while people had a lot of hope. this is pre Barrett we'll talk about Barrett's ascension, which is going to happen next Monday apparently in a minute but on the current court forty four with Roberts voting with liberals allow cases that have good results the stand he was not with the Liberals on this Alabama case and. It is incredible to me. That They allowed this voter suppression tactic to stand by a five to three vote. Could you describe the? The thing that is so common sense to me and so fair that the Supreme Court allowed to be struck down in Alabama. Okay. So You're you're not you you're talking about small democracy. and. The Pennsylvania though you want to go to the well, those were Alabama vote for. New Hampshire North Carolina last thirty six hours were in my opinion pro. The right of people to vote Alabama is not even close to that and it's a Supreme Court Without County Barrett on it. So I thought it was worth talking about that one case again, Pre Barrett and what it may bode for the weeks ahead. Yeah I. Mean we should start with the idea that anything. Any terrible vote that you get Barrett is going to be far worse post Barrett. If that issue comes up again before the court and the other thing that's sort of unusual in these a lot of these decisions like the Alabama decision in the Pennsylvania decision, the justices that are dissenting. Are Not. In in Pennsylvania the justices dissented didn't have an explanation in the majority vote on the Alabama case again, no explanation as to why they're doing it. So this is essentially a ban on. so-called curbside voting right because They basically ruled that violate the Americans with Disabilities Act and that you can't have a policy that requires counties to curb side voting even though the argument obvious is that that would be a reasonable accommodation underlaw. So there's a pandemic. there are people who are disabled and disabled an immuno compromise, and so what what this county in Alabama had come up with was that there could be. Voters could be allowed to vote from their cars at the curb side of the polling place, and it simply hand their ballots to a poll worker. Mind you people are putting ballots in two official ballot boxes. So the idea that you have to sort of you know do something more impersonal put it in a an actual mailbox already gotten sort of beyond that and so you know what is it felt vulnerable in in coming into polling places or voting in some other way wanted to vote. In person wouldn't have to wait outside in a crowd of people who many of whom I think especially maybe in Alabama are not wearing masks of course, the Secretary of state in Alabama is a Republican the he that's the person who essentially banned it it to prevent the accommodation and the Supreme Court sided with the Secretary of state, and of course, the did centers where Sonia Sotomayor Steven Briar, and Elena Kagan. Who are just about to be the minority on the court? And your As we've said, repeatedly for those who object when someone like you or me or Marjorie of jared has yet said, the president was incredibly open about why he wanted Barrett confirmed before the election he said publicly like he's you know whoever said a couple of weeks ago the guy's never had an unarmored thought which I think is a fair statement. He said the reason I need on the court is because the courts to decide the election and so in all likelihood a five to three majority or even afford a four tie becomes a five to four six to three vote. and it's not unreasonable in light of the fact that the. Four conservatives if you exclude Roberts have stuck together on all these cases. that at minimum she provides a five to four majority for voter suppression and so what do about that Andrew Cabal in light of the fact that she will be confirmed on a straight party vote I think it's Monday that the full Senate. Is Voting and she'll be on the Supreme Court in Plenty of time, not just for the affordable Care Act hearing on November tenth but on any hearings, should they get their on? people's. Voting in this election. Well, I mean, there isn't seem to be much that Democrats can do to keep her from being on the court. The issue will be how long she sits and how many cases come before the court, and there are some that are coming right up before there's any attempt made to expand the court and and put some balance on the court I mean you know. I don't know how many people are really pay much much attention to this kind of stuff as I do. But what the GOP Senate has done to force this unqualified nominee, she would be an unqualified nominee notwithstanding some of some of you know. her positions on things in her absolute refusal to acknowledge. you know provable positions that she's held on a number of different issues. If she even if she if she had gone through a confirmation, hearing had been fully transparent, she would still be unqualified to be on the Supreme Court of the United States. People should people recognize that she has been on the Court of Appeals for three years. Merrick Garland was on the Court of Appeals for decades and was the chief justice for at. Three of those years and historically we have sought to put people on the Supreme Court of the United States whose length of time on the bench and whose depth and breadth of experience are worthy of that court. It is just so obvious why this unqualified reliable conservative vote is being placed on the court in circumstances lay waste to all of the Senate's procedures, all of its rules. and lay bare a level of naked hypocrisy on this issue given the blocking of over one hundred of Obama's nominees for the lower courts and merit. Garland's the blocking of Merrick garland nomination for the for the Scotus just lay bare a level of naked hypocrisy. This is this is the enforcement of minority rule in my view, it is as clear as apartheid. That this is the enforcement of minority rule because even the polling on on a variety of issues that will come before the Scotus says that Amy colley Barrett is out of step with what the people in the United States of America want when you add all of this to voter suppression. You have. A bloodless coup of government. Being affected by one party and a number of money who stand to benefit from that. So Andrew Kerala, scary Hendry said at the top of the rape for introduced you. The Joe Biden had finally sort of answered. The question about expansion of the quarter court packing is critics to. Call it. By, putting off the decision saying. Bipartisan Group of scholars the report back to him after hearing what your analysis of what? Has Happened. What short of expanding the size of the court? Can a Democratic President Joe Biden a Democratic Senate. If that's what happens do to restore what you'd consider be fair and equitable balance of the court be other than expanding the size of the court. Well. The certainly, Congress can pass legislation I. Mean that you can. You can address a number of issues by passing legislation actually. Oh. You certainly stuff that you can do on voter intimidation. Of Issues. You can yes as long and you just have to be very careful. To make sure that the legislation is is properly worded and can withstand challenge if it does get up to the Scotus but again. But again, you have three separate and coequal branches of government and there and and and you have the action you'll end up having the actions of two of those branches. Trying to trying to enforce a justice on behalf of the people of the United States in anticipation of the injustice of the Third Brash and to some degree. That's exactly what we've been seeing even in the in the current configuration with Republican rule. But I think, yes, they can congress can certainly get legislation through that will fix a number of these things you know by law. I won't stop won't stop a court that you think has bias in its genes from no matter how tightly some do that? You support. That's my question. You support expansion of the court. I'll absolutely you do so do you think Joe Biden? Do you think Joe Biden has an obligation maybe not strategically but I don't know if the word ethics can be applied to politics ethically to be more candid with the American people I. Mean I think it's fair to say that this one hundred and eighty day commission is an attempt to not have to answer the question. Before November third is that not a fair statement but but here's what let me ask you this I get it and I'm Gonna I'm GonNa ask you a question I don't know why we're spending all of this time talking about whether or not Joe Biden does something to expand the court that has been packed by the Republicans for the last at least the last eight years. I don't know I don't understand that why why we're spending time on that is why I wanted to talk about the Pennsylvania thing because people thought that the Pennsylvania ruling was a good ruling, it's actually not a good ruling. Justices. No I mean I listen. My opinion is that the court should be expanded immediately I'm not the president of the United States I'm not. You know I haven't promised to represent all of the people in the United States. So I think he's taking a thoughtful approach to it, but I would I would expand it immediately because I just see that injustice there. But for people who think that there have been small gains for for small democracy in a vote like the Pennsylvania votes not true. So the Pennsylvania the Pennsylvania Supreme Court had ruled that S-. Ballots that were mail in ballots but had been, but we're postmarked by election day could be counted. Pennsylvania Republicans challenged that and they made to absolutely ridiculous Well, what? That is that is clearly ridiculous. The second argument. At least persuaded the The four four dissenting of the three dissenting justices. But the the first argument they made is that you you you can't count ballots that are postmarked by third because the federal a federal law establishes a National Election Day. Which is insane to make that argument because it doesn't say that the votes have to be counted by the third it says they have to be cast but the second. Argument they made was that the Pennsylvania's Surpreme Court was usurping The authority of the legislature which does have the constitutional right to prescribe the manner of elections by saying that ballots could be even if they were received after they'll postmarked by the third even they could be counted after the third. And again, what you have are these dissenting justices to of home. Were on Bush v Gore. Two of whom with warlords, on Bushby Gore and if Amy Coney Barrett Skoda, she will be the third lawyer who represented the GOP Bushby Gore, who is sitting on the Supreme Court. So you've got a Leo, Cavenaugh, got Gorsuch, and Thomas. Dissenting without without any real explanation as to why they're dissenting. But there signaling that if this comes back, this issue comes back before them this issue of state steak. State Supreme Courts saying making rulings on the counting of ballots past election day. They've made it clear that if that comes back up post-election. There's a Bush v Gore in the offing. Right, they're inclined to vote along those lines to make it possible for a legislators Republican run legislatures in swing states to you know elect elect doors that will hand the vote to Donald Trump. So it's not really a victory. It's a short term victory much as Pennsylvania will be allowed to count ballots that our postmarked by November third, but it is it. Is Very potentially a long-term major loss for free and fair elections and democracy and courts historically have stood in the space where voter intimidation voter suppression lie to to issue rulings especially state courts to issue rulings preventing that, and what these four dissenting justices are saying is we're going to take away that protection from the American people and let highly partisan legislatures decide. Who's vote counts and who's doesn't, and that is incredibly dangerous. What's the word used to describe yourself in this conversation ten minutes ago, com Yeah I'm I feel in all seriousness? Break. I'm serious. How are you how I mean? I don't think you're factual retelling of where things are can really be disputed. Some people may say it's great that they're going to. Essentially, decide the election they may disagree with you on that but I don't think they can disagree with your facts. What's is doing to you? Oh the fact that I'm not running amok in the street like you know, Kinda just waving a meat cleaver and banging on people's car windows is astonishing to me. That I haven't reached that point yet I mean I know it really is anxiety making it really you know I just you know. I. Genuinely encouraged by the number of people that are voting early and strengthen those numbers of volume but I hope people understand this is the last shot. Did another shot doesn't come after this? Not With Amy Barrett on on the Supreme Court and not if Donald Trump wins a second term, you know democracy as people have known it, their entire lives will cease to exist and that's not an understatement. It's just true. It's already part of the way they're it's already wounded. but it has the wounds you can live with. You can recover from if if things you know Joe Biden elected and if there's a way to sort of bring balance to the Supreme Court. But all the things that people think they want, you know for people who are saying, this is great like put her on the court and this is great. You know trump should win. History of the world that the very people that share on autocracy authoritarianism. They don't get it until it comes for them, but it always comes for them. So. We we just have a tiny little bit of time left I don't want to. Ask You a question that's going to send you racing for the meat cleaver but. I'm so sorry I do. But I do want to quickly ask you because I think a lot of us are trying to reconcile what we're understanding about the grand jury in the and the Briana Taylor case, and when we heard from this anonymous grand jury Earlier this week who by the way had to appeal the fact that they even speak out publicly who said, you know what we weren't even given the task of indicting any of these officers so I guess my question to you is this is this normal and how? I guess it is normal because grand juries are given a task and they they did their job here. But the fact that we're not finding out about this until now. It's actually pretty extraordinary in any other day. You know just to just to make jim lap and he has a day. This would be the segment was completely sending me over the edge. So thank you for adding it onto the. The But even the judge characterized the allowing this this grand jury to speak publicly and is actually to to render that want us to be publicly about it He even he acknowledged use the word that this is extraordinarily extraordinarily relief for an extraordinary situation and what makes it extraordinary is that the Attorney General Daniel Cameron. Essentially lied. To. The public and hid behind the grand jury. And said they, they basically said they chose not to return an indictment and what this anonymous juror is saying we will never give is that we were never given an opportunity to return indictments. You didn't even see charges against these officers other than the ones. which we returned indictments and those with a reckless endangerment ones for the single officer who fired into someone elses home. and the judge is not standing for this. You know sort of brazen misrepresentation lie to the public that you know one cameras got his dirty work done. He basically went out and laid it at the feet of grand jurors is though they were unable to process you know evidence or they consciously chose to ignore evidence that he put before them and that's not true and this juror filed a motion. I have never heard of this in in in sixteen years a prosecuting I've never heard a juror filing emotion to be allowed to speak publicly. About an injustice like this. So it is extraordinary and it forced Cameron's hand. Remember the judge ordered him to turn over the grand jury transcripts and he tried to delay it. He got a delay of a week. but ultimately, you know to to make them public but he fought it tooth and nail once it became clear that his deception was going to was going to be exposed, and now the grand juries are being allowed to talk about what was presented to them and what wasn't present it to them. I think he's in a lot of trouble. but it is one of the worst manipulations of the grand jury process which already a nurse to the benefit of a prosecutor and not not you know unjustly. So it is the prosecution bringing the charges but this is one of the most naked manipulations of graduate process I've ever heard of in my entire life. I've never see I've never heard seen anything like this in my entire life. At lucky for us since we don't want you to become a so cleaver ready or whatever. You said a couple of minutes ago run on time. So we cannot discuss today how the sackler bought themselves out of another. Corner I would argue despite the size of the settlement we'll do that next week Andrea. I was GONNA save. Pleasure, to talk to you it was good to talk to you and we'll talk more. Thank you so much yourself. Great to be with you Andrew Carroll joins US every week for law and order sees the former Suffolk County Sheriff Secretary of Public Safety She's now the CEO of send well coming up the Museum of Fine Arts goes the physical distance reopening amid pandemic with an ambitious large-scale Bosque show the conversation continues on eighty nine seven. GBH Boston public. Radio. Welcome back to Boston public radio. I'm Jim Brady Jerk bonus sitting in for Marjorie when it comes to adapting to the pandemic museums might have an advantage after all they've been in the practice of keeping museum goers physically distance from masterpieces for decades keeping museum goers distance from one another as a different challenge altogether together, a challenge at the Museum of Fine Arts is now addressing. Reopen last month now has a new attraction, the long-awaited exhibit writing the future basket and the hip hop generation join us along talk about what the museum experiences like in Corona virus times and the changes that are happening at the MFA is Matthew Teitelbaum. He's the end and Graham Gun director of Museum of Fine Arts. Match, Tom It's great to have you thanks for calling in. Thanks for having me. I Matthew. So you've now been open for a little while you open partially with the art of the Americas and those galleries in that wing and I know that you'll expand next month hopefully open more and i. wonder what it's like to be open right now especially, when we see numbers rising around I, wonder how that all computes into how the museums operating? Well so to to. It's great to be opened a museum exist to serve our public, engage our public to create convening and give a community sense itself. It is great to be open. It was really tough for a whole range of reasons to be closed. Opening up is our purpose and. The pleasure that people are expressing is is really really rewarding. we're keeping very close tabs on public health issues our biggest from the very beginning, which create a safe space wanted a safe space for our staff. We want our base for our visitors. We're keeping very close tabs. We've had no incident of any health flare ups any concern. People, are being brought into the museum with care thoughtfulness. it's it's quite actually quite a good time to crtv because it's not very crowded purposely. So purposely so and we're in touch with public health officials. There's nothing that suggests we have to check protocols are. Always been conservative and You know we did one of those things that. We need one of those things where you know the ask people as their. Experiences like one of those word clouds where you actually see what word to people who the most and the three words that people use to describe their experience. was people felt safe. There were other words they were like open good distancing engaging. But that Word Seitz was the biggest word in the word cloud at not reading to I'll tell you. We'd never risk taking a word cloud on this radio show. Let me tell you right now. So How? I know you had to let some staff go and I was actually thinking of a conversation I had last week with Keith Lockhart and freelance musician with POPs in the BSO on television where they talk not just about the pain that these workers were suffering during financial pain and other during the pandemic. But also that there fear that these dedicated long-term players in your case workers would be lost to. The orchestra in your case, the museum are you worried about that? Your staff I have to say I just have anecdotal experience but this is so terrific and welcoming and knowledgeable. You worried about the long term impact of this on staffing the. Short answer is yes. I'm concerned about the sector as a whole We all exist on our revenues trapping people give come share their experiences advocate for us and without that the whole structure becomes a bit my word wobbly My biggest concern is for the individual You know none of us went to director school to learn how do they offer and reductions in force properly. You know we did it with compassion. We admitted benefits. We tried our very, very best, but none of us a took the jobs that we did. To. Oversee reduction force you want to grow. You want to be more important and impassable. You want more people involved including the staff level. But the sector is undergoing up very big shift and we're not sure what's going to happen. One thing that's happened but very positive positive is our move to digital. We you know their institutions across Austin across America starts to really she knew to in some cases augmented in some cases, really good digital program, and that's creating new audiences and it's creating audiences from beyond Boston. are very exciting but how that gets blended. With. The traditional museum physical site. Exhibitions Galleries painted at the question we're all working through and I might say and I don't mean to. Be. Unduly. OPTIMA. Optimistic. But as we move into digital and as we move into new ways to present content, there will be new job opportunities so it won't be a static environment, but I think you're absolutely right to say. Is there a worry cast the question? Is there a worry about the way sector shifting and the? Because none of us really know. What about the experiences that we museum visitors have every arts leader I've spoken through to during this pandemic has talked about the fact that their organization is going to be very different on the other side of this. There has been such tremendous loss in resources and staffing and revenue especially in museums definitely in theater, which we don't even know in that will come back that it won't be the same to you do have a an understanding yet of what you're not going to be able to do in the future that you had been able to, and maybe even take for granted or realize you would take him for granted not knowing that we could be. Confronted with such a thing as a pandemic. I don't WanNa get too technical and crashes, but let me say that haven't yet heard. Museum or art leaner say that mission of their institutions going to change. What we're all talking about is within the mission in our case bring. Together to create meaningful experiences with art that in that eliminate our society. Within that mission. we will come up with different strategies and those different strategies will be dependent on our ability to find the resources, they create the structure to deliver our promise. So having out to your question. The things I think you're going to see is in an environment in which international travelers curtailed in which insurance rates are going all over the place. In which the whole ability to move things and to collaborate is taking on a different Ceiling you're GONNA see fewer large international exhibitions and greater reliance on our collection. In order to tell the stories of art now. What I think is also happening and. Slow to come a good development is that we're questioning our histories and most institutions are whether it's racial recommending whether it's gender equity whether it's issues around social justice there are issues that. That by the way are Geek in our collections that are coming to the surface. So what does that mean I think you're gonNA start seeing us with more and leaders in our community whether it's academics, artists, other cultural workers to bring their voices into the institution because need to rely on those close to us to create experiences. That I think is a good thing that I think a very good thing. We want to talk about those artists, Matthew Teitelbaum Director of the MFA in a second but since you brought up racial reckoning. I was GonNa say it's going on in the world outside the museum but of course, whether it's going on as a debatable question, there's an attempt at had going on outside the museum. You're in a unique situation where it's going on inside the museum I think most listeners remember in mid two, thousand, nineteen when the kids from I think it was called the Henry White Helen y Davis Leadership Academy. There were allegations of racism row, racial profiling a year. Later you reaching agreement with the Attorney General, there's now a director of belonging and inclusion. You have an African American President I think for the first time of the board but apparently, that's not all that will come out of this incident from. A year plus ago. What else is on the agenda as part of this arrangement with the Attorney General Matthew Well, you know the attorney, General and they. Came through historic agreement that allowed us to. Deepen our commitment to things. We already doing it didn't imply that we would put resources behind it. Happy to do so. Do, so and it has to do a whole range of things whether it staff diversity whether it's board representation whether it's protocols on the way in which we engage school groups ironic that without having. Them but these are all things that started to shift I would say many of them were shifting before they were routed in our strategic plan. The notion of a museum that belong to all of Boston was core was core to the way in which we developed. Two thousand seventeen and we have many many initiatives. Including the way we hire. Reward. dwayne. Wish we look for greater diversity at A. Board leadership and these we'll continue I think that the hiring of our new senior director of inclusion is something by the way which was not asked for the museum in. Understanding general but something we committed to because it was consistent with. Change believe it necessary and that's specific position. Is. tied to the notion of. How do we. Train. And prepare staff and volunteers. Museum. To engage with our audiences around issues like belonging inclusion. So we have a very. Simple way of saying that he can't be externally what you are internally. So we don't have a way of relating to each other way in which we relate to our visitors by expressing the values that we have institution we won't say that proper invitation so. we're old she's been with us now for For just six weeks we'll be in fat to help us understand how create. Language. And procedures do engage with our audiences truly welcoming way and there were already started terry exciting. So Matthew Teitelbaum Director of the MFA. This leads into a debate that's raging in the art world right now Looking at the issues of racial reckoning of understanding who gets to tell what story there's an exhibition that was to open and be shared by four different museums including the Museum of Fine Arts of Philip Guston and it has been put put on hold because of For people don't legendary artists of the Twentieth Century for images that he rendered of the Ku Klux Klan, not of course endorsing them but his own comment commentary on racism in America there's a huge debate as I mentioned within the art world with a lot of artists especially artists of color pushing back saying there is no way that this show shouldn't go forward. It's clear what his commentary was. What is your take as one of the museums? This show about whether or not they should go forward and why it shouldn't happen right now. Well, you know his wife forward Interesting. This moment is we were we were accused of cancelling of censoring and I mean, we were very clear from the beginning that we were pausing So I think it's really important to say this is not an issue around civil custom. You know he's a great artist is images were deeply deeply critical of additional power structures and embedded racism in American society that which is 'cause he took this on. so one might say why? Not to show these images, well, you know what? museums I believe haven't done the work to create the to use the word hospitality the way in which we create the proper and fair conversation imagery, what imagery and frankly. I. Again. Just alone I made it reminded museum colleagues and in dialogue with the NSA staff. My feeling was that this wasn't the time. Without more preparation to actually engage a way of understanding what it meant for this artist to make these images fifty years ago but to present them in this moment. This moment in which the Klu Klux Klan are being a vote again in which they are symbol of a certain set of values and I think that we have to understand. But the pack of the were made with such power conviction empathy serious intent in nineteen, sixty, nine, nine, hundred, seventy doesn't mean they re they are received neutrally. In the museum today and that that's the main issue that I want to talk about other stuff up about it over the course of the next while, which is, what is the response we of the museum to create the space for understanding and how do we assure ourselves that we're creating the right kinds of conversations with the right inputs and I think that we need to do Morrison Institution I think our sector has to do more but I, think the MFA has to do more inviting more. Voices in to create a diverse understanding of how something is looked at from different points of view. But question that's being posed to is that some of these works and I don't know who is lending I I would assume that some of these works are already on view in museums. The catalog has been published and is out there and there are people who say that the work should stand for itself that the values that Guston. That the messages the passion that guston brought to this should standstill. Yeah and I, respect that point of view I i. don't I don't think that it for me to comment on how their institutions contextualized them display of works whether it's passenger other artists whose images create. Response in diverse audiences whatever audience is nothing judgment. What I will say here, we were proud to do the book. It's a really great book. It's got a lot of points of view that many of these issues I just think there's a different by the way people might disagree with me there's a difference between reading a book. Gauging. With. Ideas. And in a physical space. With an institution that has one hundred, fifty year history that's presenting something like these images. Without. Appropriate context that's all and I. Think we can get there and we will get there and we're going to be very, very proud. Do the expedition You Matthew Teitelbaum One more thing just from me on this gusting thing you obviously come. At it from one direction is director of a great museum obviously charities and art critic I am a consumer only. I have to say when I read about this, my attitude was almost exactly the opposite if not now when I assume that you and your fellow museum leaders even before there was George Floyd in everybody's mind were concerned about context and all of the issues we're confronting just not as immediately for the years that you're preparing for this. So I I really don't understand in twenty twenty four right now seems almost like you said, you obviously didn't cancel of just postponed. It seems like an eternity away at a time when this country finely I'm not sure but finally May. Address these issues so Why weren't you ready? Why weren't you three colleagues ready? You know you could ask that question about why the museums create and share the history of they do. Why aren't we ready to question some of the? Embedded. hierarchies and assumptions in elections we hope and the answer is because long hard work and because the questions are still being formulated and because Work in concert with others to achieve it and my own view. Yes. We have to work more closely with our staff around guessing points of view we have work are closely in our community different points of view because I think one thing we've done is too little. About how things are received museums have thought a lot about how to resenting the whole question of how they seed in particular moment. Very important. I, you know by the way I do think twenty twenty wars is you know we're we're moving towards. Doing something earlier than that, and we can meet and earlier moment you know the the are making these judgments in a pandemic. Our institutions are in financial challenging situation and where the notion of collaboration being questioned but you know what I would want you to remember I really want you to remember. That you know we're having this conversation. Exhibitions we've ever organized. Reading the future drama Shell Hippo Generation has just opened by they soda in the next number of weeks and ticket sales are going very well. You know you have to put it in the context of an institution that is reframing some of the. Assumptions that have been embedded within it for hundred fifty years and I believe we will be judged to shouldn't that honors Pat? Things carefully about embedded history. Honors those people look at the Monet. Show. Up in the middle of November all drawn from our collect because leaders in this community us to have a great and extraordinary collection of nineteenth century French art, and we do. I think you're going to look back and you're going to say you know they got it pretty pretty well, they got this notion of honoring the path but questioning some. So I think it's really important that the gust conversation the framed as. How does our audience receive it? What is the context reception in the institution of the whole and one of the context is? If follows the basket exhibition which changes the dialogue and understanding of new. York. Heart a particular involvement with Matthew just and I think you enjoy doing this you stole my thunder because I was going to transition into bosque which I was just talking about it on the radio this morning as well, and which by the way we're featuring open studio on Friday night too. But this is an exhibition that you had in the works even prior to the pandemic and a lot of the social conversations that we're having right now especially around race. And this is groundbreaking show. Tell us about the conversation you're having here that that moves people beyond just Jean Michel Basquiat. The one figure most people do know from the nineteen seventies and eighties in that vibrant New York Scene Art scene. Yep. So I'm a I'm a huge. Fan I just think that he created an extended a language art which is a very rare thing. and I'm very respectful of this shows that have been done in the past I actually. Was Part of the organization at one when I was director in Toronto. Here comes the. Okay. So Laid the groundwork love love the love work that's been done this caller ship. This is the first exhibition. The. I looked John Show basket in the context of his peers. Are just color. Working. Alongside him. Literally and figuratively. To create our interchange a dialogue. So there are. Shifting other artists in the tradition more or less. All of whom worked with him alongside him. They influenced each other and he will see in the mission work they together work. They did in response to one another. Paintings that were influenced by music music that was influenced by poetry and you will see. that. Community for in front of you and that's what I'm excited about with this exhibition because you know I either I believe I believe that museums trick community they were committee and they ended up creating community. So a great artist. In his Milia in conversations that helped shape him. And also shine a light of some of the other artists who frankly some actives and some. Jesse forgotten it's a pretty exciting moment it a re setting of a certain history. You know I lived in New York City. Obviously had a very short life I lived in New York City when He was doing much of his creation. So the good news before you go Matthew Teitelbaum is you've got this exhibit that I think everybody's GonNa WanNa. See The bad news is that you just say it sold out. The next week next to. Its. Name. So. So please briefly is sold out for the next few we which is great. It tells me that there's real interests that we create some profile. You're helping US create profiles notes on. because he is an exhibition that rewards and expand our understanding and you know it's a joyous exhibition to see by Mid-november to start opening up again, you can book today you can book your time and again I need to say word cloud people. Say I mean we've created a way of seeing the exhibition isn't comfortable and reassuring. Matthew Work Cloud Teitelbaum. It's talking to you. Thank you so much for your time. To be with you. Glad to have this moment to share some. Slow you so much Matthew Teitelbaum is the ANAGRAM gun director of the Museum of Fine Arts coming up for opening up the lines and asking you if art the generates controversy should be exempt from censorship or is everything fair game keep your dial on eighty nine seven. Gbh. Boston public radio. Back to Boston Public Radio Jim. Brady jared bone sitting in for Marjorie. If you're just tuning in, we're talking to Matthew Teitelbaum he's director of the MFA about his decision along with other museum directors three others. In fact, postponed a major X. Exhibit of Philip guston's work at issue or paintings that feature cartoonish to collects clan figures doing everyday kinds of things. The Augusta in retrospect was first open I believe in June the National Gallery of art in DC would then move to the MFA in Houston then to the tate modern in London and finally here to the NFL. The directors of the museums released this joint statement. Here's what they said postponing the exhibition until the time at which we think that the powerful message of social and racial justice in Centerville, cousins work can be more clearly interpreted. But now isn't the time as I asked Mr Teitelbaum when our president sympathizing with white supremacists went is the right time to provoke thoughts about racism and white supremacy, a larger issue jars, and we'll take your calls at eight seven, seven, three, zero, one, eighty, nine, seventy one is it ever right to I know matthew? Wouldn't use this term sensor or in this case the. So that there is quote context whatever that means or should art be published. A should be presented and let people draw their own conclusions numbers eight, seven, seven, three, zero, one, eighty, nine, seventy, you're the expert. So what's the answer? Censorship is a word that applies in doesn't apply here as I. Know that I know as Matthew Teitelbaum was just saying. They're taking this time and one thing I did hear from him that I am. Informing, my own decision is he like the other museum directors are listening internally to to what people are saying to make this decision but ultimately, the decision, they have made this to take this this career survey of Philip Guston and delay it until twenty, twenty four so that they can, as they argue, take more time to contextualized. Just, a little backstory of Philip Guston. He is somebody who is a major artist of the twentieth century. He was very politically active, very politically engaged i. think you explained this in your introduction but his images of the Ku Klux Klan are cartoonish. He is not supporting. He was not supporting the Ku Klux Klan. This was his commentary on society at the time continuing his political activism that had started his career in New York and continued all throughout his life. A lot of people were very excited about this survey including a lot of artists. A lot of those artists have now turned around and they've been hammering these museum saying, this is not appropriate to not show this work into delay it and I guess my thought is I don't understand you know as we just talked about with Matthew Teitelbaum why it isn't being shown right now I understand that these images can be very very difficult i. say this as a white person. I'm not a black person for whom these could be especially traumatic I think to see images of the clan but I think contextualized in in this survey. It makes more sense and it should be available to the public. I tend to argue in favor of artists who are trying to deliver a message where commenting on ourselves on our society I. Think there is a way to put this in context for our times. I most recently saw the MFA did this with the Gone Sheila and Gustaf clip show a couple of years ago. This was a show that premiered just in the height of the metoo movement. The MFA was very concerned is very concerned in piece. I was doing at the time what it would be to show Sheila who had been convicted of statutory rape to to show this work they immediately responded by putting labels on the wall and suddenly they could have an education around us. I don't know why this would now take until twenty twenty, four trump to do that I'm so glad you and by the way when I said twenty, twenty, four, which ready said, well, it could be. Sooner than that. By the way I'm not against context I want to be clear and I'm not an absolute absolute I. Don't know enough frankly about are to be an absolutist I know my tendency as again as consumers I said to Matthew Teitelbaum is on the side of putting that out there and I. The point I think made at the end, we're going to get to your calls at eight, seven, seven, three, zero, one, eighty, nine, seventy, and by the way again, it's not. We're not really asking about the Guston thing because a lot of people haven't seen her don't know. About his work we're talking about art in general in these kinds of decisions that are made the context that would be appropriate I. Don't know if it's necessary but appropriate I'm with you would seem to be be the product of a long conference call and then you do the work for a week or whatever the hell it is. I don't think it seems to me and I mean, this is respectfully as possible. I don't know a Matthew Teitelbaum while I'm a huge fan of the. MFA. They worked on this for years as I said to him, it isn't like this was a non racially charged world prior to Memorial Day and the killing of George Floyd. So it sounds to me like it's just the controversy avoidance kind of thing and art should be the last thing that should be I mean you of all people know this should be it should provoked controversy and discussion not causes avoidance. So let's take some calls eight, seven, seven, three, zero, one, thousand, nine, hundred, seventy, do it jared pick what you'd like let's go to start with Blake calling from Newport Rhode Island High Blake Hello Blake. I can hear me. Oh. Thanks for raising the topic Jim I agree with you I think the. Question of why isn't now the right time is about question I think we can push back matthew tied up. His Great Work Museum directors worked really hard but I think the question then becomes how do we create the proper context to make the right time and make this conversation something we can't have now. Interestingly, as we also talked about in that interview just now, the catalog that accompanies this exhibition has already been written and it's already been. Point you made I haven't seen it myself at Sebastian smee wrote about it in the Washington Post and it has essays by as he described it to of this country's most celebrated and politically minded black artists. And so that that that work really has been done in the context. I wasn't even aware. I knew about the Cadillac I didn't know that was in there well, that all even further underscores the notion that they're ready to go blake. Thank you so much recall. So what do you think is the even if you don't think they're malevolent intentions, it is controversy avoidance is it not? It's a desire not to offend. People is that I think that's exactly what it is. I. Think we're in a moment where we We know there's a lot of her know you to use the phrase the surface a few years ago there were there are trigger warnings are things that make. That caused a great deal of pain. However, we get through that pain also by having these conversations by talking about it and then moving forward in it we don't get through it by casting it aside, pushing it off to the future and just not having the conversation at all I. Totally Agree Jurors from watertown. Hi. Hi Thank you for taking the call. I go much support the all of this pressure on the museum having this show but I think that there's an element that's not being discussed in the US is the obvious one about any sort of islands that might take place with this current political situation if such show were to be hung and just playing to the public and I just think an element of things. So close to the White House and they're in DC and there's strong -bility maybe the museum wants to you know even though they are concerned about public the public social impact moving forward but they also have to take care of safety of visitors and also Take care of the art and any sort of thought that they're borrowing this from other other collections. It really you know that is their one of their primary roles and showing this is that they do take care of that and then it's not damaged or there isn't that kind of risk. If I may interrupt to do you not agree though your first argument about potentially provoking violence or whatever exactly said that's a pretty slippery slope. Is it not a in this kind of charged environment? You end up with. Bland America I I. Wait. So let me be very clear I'm very well informed. I actually given a lot of talks about diversity and art I am credibly in support of that in general. I feel that even if we if they were to postpone it, even two months I'm hoping that that will be all the all of the waiting process that they need in order to safely hostess I do not agree with you know. So any sort of Banning this sort of discussion or allowing that kind of. Public Forum to take place to discuss this this ongoing issue and in Genoa absolutely support it. I just think in terms of the museum saying right now is not the time I. think that you know knowing what I know I think that there might be a little pressure on the board there to just hitting please not do this at this very moment with the elections coming up and I'm hoping that that by the wins and I'm hoping that this kind of show will be able to be shown shortly and can be done. So an a more safe environment where the the powers to be take the appropriate action to protect all. By the way this is not an attack on us. So I'm sorry if you took immediate it that way at all I think you raise legitimate point it just don't happen to agree with it. They're also working with rob Pro Black Gibbs. So we've talked a lot about here who's celebrates. African American, life and achievement. That provokes a lot of white people. In. So should we hold on Gibbs work temporarily? So that so a whites who don't like to see black celebrated or not provoked I mean it's just. It's a that's the slippery slope that I was talking about I I guess and you know. Part of this issue is that it's been national gallery of art and it is right down the street from the White House. And I think that that is the primary reason that I'm fortunately is nothing brought up here. Okay because. We, gotTa do to thank you very much for your call. We appreciate your thoughts and I think we did hear a little bit of that and with Matthew Teitelbaum said is well with resources. But I think Judith also makes a very valid point is yet, and as you said Jim, this is a this is also an image issue museums which are already confronting a lot and realized that they are being held accountable for A. Lot more probably don't want to take on a significant amount of more more D- outside of Washington. I would argue again that this is the right moment especially for math you just said you can walk into the museums now because of social distancing because so few tickets are sold per hour and feel like you have it to yourself, which means you won't have the crowds. You probably actually have less of a security risk. Because, social distancing museums. Next. Year, we got an asteroid in calling from Gloucester high-acid. I how are you good so I sort of an absolutist in this I don't think that you should ever ever censor art even the art that we find absolutely reprehensible I think that I think Jim you're correct. You can put it in context and there's actually very. Great ways, helpful ways to put it in context but I think this is absolutely the time and I'm a little bit concerned and I don't think Judas meant to come off this way. But to sort of intimate that we have this huge uprising because and these are very very you know. Kind of in your face they're. Already. Very provocative I mean and they are powerful just even looking at you know like in a book or on the screen they are powerful, but there's also no question on. WHAT UNQUOTE? On What concerns me? Is that I think that. What is sort of when we say we have to sort of? You know make some space and bring people along and stuff like that. I don't think that they're really worried about the masses I think that worried about their boards in their funders. That's what I think. They're worried about because you know as much as we like to think that it's you know. Air quotes. Those people would be you know sort of white supremacists. There are a lot of people who have a you know who fund didn't have a lot of money who? These, these would be uncomfortable for them. And I think that we have to understand you know racism is not. An systemic racism, it's an thing that's down on the ground. It really goes all the way up to that ivory tower boardrooms. Good call appreciate it. Thank you so much. For making it you know we all I mean as Chuck Todd said, does we we're talking to him about the fact that this is two weeks ago then it'd be agreed to schedule The townhall directly opposite Biden's and he said something about. The decision and I asked them follow up question and he said, well, we all have bosses so I think that's another. Variation on asteroids. Theme I. Think. We can squeeze one more quick call. Jared. If you'd like. All right let's go to doug calling from. Oxford Hi Doug Hello Doug. I just a quick comment about being you know a lot of calls of commented on this being the right time. I think it's a little bit of a if you'll allow me perverse serendipity, it's the right time. Or the wrong time for the right topic I guess. And it can drive some evoke emotional reactions, which is what every artist I think hopes for, and that kind of leads me to my second point and that is, if feels a little bit like a filter being placed on the aw on the art itself when curator says. I, it's not the right time to display the art. It's not the right way to display the we have to contextualized. We have to change maybe people's perception of what the art is when they walk in to see, and that feels a little bit like a filter on the art to me. That was that was another great call. Thank you Doug. Thank you all for your thoughts. We appreciate at the same time in a lot of museums or removing labels and and thinking of ways to just have people have even more pure interpretations. Is that true with art museums are? Museum. has experimented with that because what they noticed and I think peabody Essex has been doing this too because they've they in have even done neurological studies where you wear these glasses I went through this process actually and they paid attention to where your eyes went. How much. Right reading label versus how much time is spent actually engaging with the art. This is the other interesting thing about the pandemic right now is there a lot of people are taking away while labels because they don't want people congregating around them and I think it does make for more pure experiences really appreciate what curator's WanNa tell me but I want to formulate my thoughts to well I'm glad we had them. Thanks to you by the way in the discussion. Coming up the trump administration takes on big tech Andy. NOCCO joins us to talk more about that and other things on eighty nine seven Gbh Boston public radio. Back to Boston Public Radio Jim Brady and. I was GONNA say. I know you're not marguerite, but I even said that the last time. I'm Murray with. Anne case he is jared bond that I know margins of today join us to go over the latest headlines at the intersection of Tech Policy and commerce I know who he is his andy. NOCCO and he's a tech writer and blogger. You can find his work at not go dot com you can follow him. It is H.. NATO O. Alot India NOCCO. A handy. So we have been hearing all of this conversation about Google and the antitrust laws over the last week and you kind of I think one of those little existential moments you think wow, they really do control everything especially large part of my life. So break this down for us how much they do control and and how much they might not control if the government has its way. well depends on depends on how how anxious Google gets the defend themselves here we in the news couple of weeks ago was a huge huge judiciary judiciary committee report about all the biggest tech companies. This has nothing to do with that, but it really does make statements case that all these workers are too big and maybe need some sort of regular ritory action. This however is more serious on Tuesday Department of Justice actually filed antitrust action against Google. essentially sent a settling on how they handle the the Google search product saying that it's how they operate it is anti anti-competitive to let anybody else in they control the market they point out the that we we even use the Google something as a substitute For Web searches. But this is very, very serious because it's a sixty page document very very clearly laid things out and they're clearly the tournament justice is clearly trying to do the exact same attack that they used against Microsoft to the successfully in two thousand, one on pretty much the same bound. So they're basically running the same playbook and hoping hoping that will pick. Andy I. Often embarrassed when I say what I'm about to say, but I'll say it anyway I sort of feel about this like I feel about. Amazon. which is any sane person knows that it is absurd to suggest that Amazon and Google or not bad for competition I mean you've got to be an idiot to think otherwise what is Amazon control fifty percent of the retail market online or something Google searches I mean you've advertised not advertise promoted duck. Oh, for privacy reasons on the show, what are they up to two percent of the search Margaret or three percent or whatever it is. So the prime trying to make which I should just make is okay really bad for competition but just like Amazon sadly, really good for the consumer Google is amazingly good and efficient and Amazon, has really good prices so. Don't play lawyer I know you're I'm not suggesting your. So what do you do with that? That problem? Yeah that's the department justice. Big Problem. They have to address the pro you have to address the question we asked but what if people are using Google search because it's simply the best tool for the job? Say Thank. You. And and I'm also very concerned about action like this because I do think that all the big tech companies apple facebook Google. Google Amazon. They really are now big enough and they've had enough replay in the in the country and in business too that they should be required to occasionally stand up and defend their actions and explain themselves however even if what they're when these companies doing is anti-competitive or actually actively runs afoul of antitrust law, the question should always be what's in the best interest of the consumers Now the Department of Justice most biggest claim that. They are preventing other search engines like duck duck go from achieving a really really good position in the search search marketplace because Google has sort of eaten up all the different ways that basic user would would want to institute a search. For instance, Apple they pay apple charges for being the default search engine on all I all I thought this is my. Last time it was disclosed the Google pays. Apple Fourteen forty million dollars. They also make deals with handset makers to say that, hey, look if you make us the default search tool on your on your phone, we will we will cut you in on a cut of what we make from from advertising and from what we learn based on using those search results. So and the thing is, and this is this is used as sort of a smoking gun by the DOJ but Google, of course, they had a block post, raise it go on Tuesday as soon as the suit was filed. They were very very offensively pointing out that will go into the supermarket. You notice the reason why the coke and Pepsi are the end caps and at a height and the mister pip and the Moxie kind of look for that's because even the supermarkets they don't give away all the prime placement for free they charge for it. Now, there are a lot of really good arguments the DOJ is making, but that really is the central thing they're going to have to get the the reason why Google has dominance and searches because. They were the first ones to really get into a serious product and they've been developing it for over a decade and they're really really good heavens though that's the sort of things that the DOJ if they're if they're going to be able if they're not gonna be locked into just a very very, you know limited view of what antitrust means that's the hill they're gonNA have to climb. Jorgen NOCCO. So Andy, sure. There are a lot of people like me thinking okay. All is not lost. World might be upside down and everything is getting shaken out. But at least the holidays are coming and we can have some traditions and slide into our some of our comfort zones and now courtesy you I find out it's the Great Pumpkin Charlie, round is not airing which means yes all now is completely lost. What is happening here that this guy network staple has gone away. It is the way the world So Apple. Has. Their Apple TV streaming services they watched last year they locked up sold rights to all of all the Charlie Brown specials They're also producing brand new Charlie Brown specials and series. That's good. But that means that for the first time I think literally ever since these since the traditional specials have been aired, it's not airing on broadcast television if you go to ABC networks webpage for Charlie Brown and thanksgiving excuse me Halloween special you got his. Ominously content not found worse than that. You can't even buy it digitally anymore. I went to go to the Amazon digital store to go to the Google play store even if you go to items to try to buy a digital copy of it that you then sort of own and use whatever you want, they've been removed from those stores so. The only way you can see any of these specials is to go to TV DOT apple, DOT COM or launched the apple TV plus APP on whatever device you have that happen to be able to run it, and that's that's terrible. The only good news is that apple really realizes that taking away Charlie Brown Christmas from us is not a good look. Not GonNa. It's not gonNA. Make US happy. To Good Heavens. The cooperating the what what what kind of ear pods, the grinch wearing. The. Same Way are allowing the basically the day before the day. After each one of these holidays, it's available for free on on Apple TV plus if you again if you whether you're paying the subscription fee or not you can access the website or the APP and watch it for free without paying any money but that's still that it's the what we tend. To forget is up the number of households that don't have decent broadband and don't have like electronic infrastructure for streaming is a lot there. That's a lot more houses than you would imagine. Now those people are totally cut off from what has been a generation after generation tradition and it also points out the This is this is the reason why as I speak. Some Air Samara as I speak. Pile of CD's computer. Like next next to my. I I. Had I had to prove through through their actual noise. Yeah. That's why I if there's an album that I, really like if there's a TV show I, really like our movie that really like I will I will buy it on disk and then rip it and put it onto like my personal my personal media server in my house because that's the only way you can get something and still have access to it all these all these great pieces of content there being sucked up. By individual streaming channels and then used as sort of a hey if you if you wanna see the star wars movies, this is the only place. You can go see it. If you WANNA see this content, this is the only place you can go see it from now on and so it's it's a terrible terrible turn of events because it's like we're being stripped of cultural heritage in a way I think that's beautifully put actually. So not go could you I watched the press conference with John Ratcliffe the director of National Intelligence and and Christopher Ray the head of the FBI last night for those who missed that. Here's a little bit of what Radcliffe had to say. About seven, forty, five last night about foreign election interference. We have confirmed that some voter registration information has been obtained by Iran. Separately by Russia. This data can be used by foreign actors to attempt to communicate false information to registered voters that they hope will cause confusion. So chaos and undermined your confidence in American Democracy Chuck Todd said was this morning? The undermining is not what Radcliffe said. The undermining is of the credibility of the intelligence community courtesy of Donald Trump and people like radcliffe, and so they don't even believe a lot of us don't even believe what Radcliffe as say but putting aside that attitude, could you describe briefly in English exactly what they were describing last night let's assume for purposes of this discussion what they said was accurate and real what exactly are the Iranians and the Russians doing their Andy Well a whole bunch of voters in Alaska Arizona and Florida start getting threatening email purportedly from the proud boys. Threatening Hey, we're a- have actually one of them in front of me we are in possession of information email address telephone everything you're currently registered as a Democrat and we this because we have gained access to the entire voting infrastructure, you will vote for trump on election day or we will come after you and saying, change your party affiliation because we can get we have we have full access to the voter rolls. We can tell who you voted for and we'll. Come after you. Some of them are even have even like we're pending the person's actual home address to emphasize no, no no, we know exactly where you are. We're coming after you. Now this kind of fell apart, very very quickly because it's very, very easy to tell that the return address looks to go to a proud boys sort of your l., but it actually goes to nowhere it goes to an Estonian textbook publisher went to Saudi Insurance Company. The the the way that you hide. With you hide where the source of address comes from. The other thing here is that It's I wasn't quite I wasn't quite so aware of this until I started looking into this last night and this morning but they're of many many states Alaska and Florida included where. You don't have to be a hacker to get access ask just a normal ordinary person to the entire voter registration data I. Think Massachusetts is one of those states too by the way I think everything that they lead only of is that not true well. I T I checked the date I checked the list this morning and Massachusetts like most states where you can get it if you have a reason to have it like if you're a party official if you're a candidate if if if you can't just be just Joe Schmo from Kokomo I, explain why I want this database, just give it to me. So So basically. The FBI hasn't Unveiled y a know that some of this data was being taken by. Iran and Russia they did say that the emails were coming from around State State Intelligence however, this is very, very much in line with what Iran is pretty much known to do when they they're doing this sort of this sort of business, and once again, it doesn't look like they were hacking into any sort of secure infrastructure. They were just help said the cell phones I stomped up step envelope to box three, five, zero, Boston mass. Oh, two, one, three, four, get back in and they basically got the voter lists that way. So it doesn't look like anything was compromised but this is just your basic your basic big head game to try to get people to have. Undermined their faith in the voting system and really disrupt people. So this was an operation to really make the trump administration or the trump campaign. Look really really bad because obviously they didn't they didn't have one set of emails for for. Republican. Voters. Alleging fraud at once different emails for for Democratic voters. So this was manipulation quitting simple. You tell us about these new neuro neural filters. That are coming out. This is this is my favorite game Photoshop had had their big user conference and they released a brand new vote version of Photoshop. Photoshop Twenty, twenty one, and one of the highlights of this new edition is they've added a whole bunch of image editing and manipulation features that are powered by artificial intelligence neural machine learning where the software knows how a human face as opposed to look in to work, and so therefore, it can do things like you're not gonNA believe this. But like my my mom had a problem where no matter how many times we've got one, two, three and click she would always be the one person in the group picture who'd be looking. At one side and so now. Just open up the the open up this group picture click on the neural neuro filters tools and there'll be a flex her slapped her face and there'll be a slider for where do you want her to be looking at it will shift her gaze from one place to another or if you have that relative that. We say okay I onto onto the be sure to smiles here I am smiling you can actually a slider for for the mouth expression. Do you want it to be a big smile or no smile you can add hair you can age or d age, and that's just for like the facial tools. There are the tools coming that will like. A remove eyeglasses The. Oh, I got to tell you about the first thing I had to try though There's another feature that I'm not sure how professionals will use this but what what it sort of like a copy paste for makeup. So if you have like a model that's all made up with a I, make up the lipstick bless everything and you have another picture of someone else that you I really love the makeup of the first person to be on the second person you can basically. Analyze like we're the makeup is going again reapply it to this bear face or even this non face and I thought Oh, the very first thing I have to do since I downloaded yesterday I have a big high resolution of David Bowie as Aladdin Sane the album cover with the lightning bolt on his face, but it doesn't work. It didn't do that. It just gave me like some really interesting colored is shadow and that was it and the funny but I did I did. I did get some information. I did hear from the the, the the head of Photoshop Development Adobe he's like the first thing that I try to. It's still in Beta we're still working on it. So I i. think that if we don't, if we don't have the ability to I, don't successfully test this on a David Bowie's Aladdin sane makeup be. Kiss makeup all four, all four members of kiss and like the joker makeup at least from the very last movie I have to think that I have to as as a legitimate as legitimate journalists. This failure because this is what we want out of this feature, you know A. Day But. Almost all this makes me nervous in these times I mean I. I. Am I remain convinced that That, we're going to get a deep fake. Three days before the election without time for the opposition to respond to it that is going to be damning and troubling to. A disproportionately large number of voters and while this doesn't make me quite as nervous. It does make me nervous not because your mother will finally be looking at the camera even when she isn't but tell me in a minute why shouldn't be nervous about the ability to manipulate these images so simply? You shouldn't because there are there already countermeasures in place that if there is a deep fake out there, it is easily detectable in definitively detectible. We can prove that this is a deep fake whether it's video or whether it's it's an image. The bad news is that just as we were talking about before about the Iranian setting out emails it's. Not, necessarily convincing people that trump's did a triple Lindy high dive during a naked during a pool party it's basically introducing an element of doubt so that you're all, they're all these people are trying to put the answer shake up the jar doesn't matter what the ants do. So long as they're off balanced well, that's the problem. That's the problem. If. Say We're and we're just. GonNa. Have People. It's just that we that part of we we all learn certain street smarts and all kinds of different categories of life in the digital. Wife we're going to have to learn that we see the more extreme. The more me more is the buzz worthy shocking image that we see. We don't immediately doubt that it's real. We are definitely GONNA say, okay there's a possibility that this is a deep fake. So I'm not gonNA immediately re tweet this already we've seen twitter. The twitter platform is already doing things like saying. Recognizing if something is a story is political and being very very widely re tweeted and so if you try to re tweet something that sort of been flagged by twitter as not necessarily dangerous but something that is really really going viral fast, it will simply give you a moment to pause and saying, okay, do you are you sure you want to re tweet this because there's a lot of activity. On this right now is this something you really believe in at usually two seconds three seconds to think that will give you that time to say, yeah, you know what? Maybe maybe Biden did not take away that snickers bar from that poor child on on Halloween I got news for you when I go to bed most nights I. Think the whole day was deep fake. So I guess it's the. Function and. It would be so reassuring. Andy thank you for your time as always we appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you so much. Andy NOCCO joins regularly. He's tech writer and blogger. You can find his work at in not co Dot Com and you can follow him at a NOCCO that's H. an at. Coming up Boston public schools go all remote former secretary of education. Paul rebel joins us for that and more and eighty nine seven Gbh Boston. Public radio. Welcome back to Boston public radio. I'm Jim Brown jared bonus sitting in for Marjorie thought closing schools down was complicated opening. Them is proving to be harder so hard city of Boston. As you know, yesterday decided to go all remote for at least another two weeks. Thanks to a spike in krona virus positively rates join US online talk about this and all the other ways. The pandemic is straining our education system as rebel pulse professor at Harvard. University's graduate. School of Education runs the education design lab his latest Book Co author with. Elaine wise is broader boulder better how schools and communities help students overcome the disadvantages poverty though there Paul rebel. Hello Jim in jared. Either Paul Hey this announcement came yesterday from the Boston, public schools and it was difficult on any number of levels one. Kids learn they wouldn't be going into school on any level to create more uncertainty for parents and students and teachers. They're also the special needs, students who really desperately need to be in school in so many cases who won't be able to so. What's the ramifications and something? Probably a lot of people expected would come to pass anyway given what they're corona virus infection rate seems to be as it climbs in this area. Yeah well, it's an agonizing decision I know for the school system and Equally for parents and students were involved in it it's important to. Keep in mind it. In the Boston case, this is a tiny minority of Boston students overall who were attending in person there were twenty, six, twenty, seven, hundred students, and they'll now be sent home. The overwhelming majority of students in Boston are already add on. So this will have the effect of deepening the learning gaps for those twenty, seven hundred students because at the day to day attention and these were targeted. Targeted students who had special challenges in terms of ups, keeping pace and so forth. So that's a that's particularly disappointing. It's You know it's a function of two things the changing nature of this pandemic and the unpredictability from. One month to the next of what needs to get. And the slowness of our response to this I don't just mean the school district I mean the federal government starts with the federal government, the state government and the system you know to put in place the kinds of conditions in classrooms that would make it possible for young people that go back to school and I you know a colleague Joe Alan it's it was at the School of Public Health at Harvard, but just on a panel with me. This morning talking about really the the risk of keeping kids out of school surpass the risk of bringing kids back to school if and this is important if you can put in place reasonable conditions that would make it safe for kids to come back, which he argues can be done without a great deal of extra cost and are common sense measures like masks and and testing and contact tracing that had been discussed for some time as well as their circulation purification so well. You know. I'm not a public health person, but I'm going to take issue with your colleague in a minute but first I wanNA play just thirty seconds of a multi minute coal. Yesterday we got from Guy Ben and Tony from Worcester, ball who a lot of our listeners may not have heard at this part of the show because it was in the first half hour. And it was really powerful. He's got a special needs kid and we'll just listen to what he had to say. You got a kid with complex disabilities in this environment right now You're in a lot of trouble you're you have to. You have to make a lot of tough decisions about the rest of the family about work. You know suddenly where we're finding ourselves trying to find somebody to help us at home for more hours but there's nobody there's less people than before to come in and help you with your daily care and all that stuff. So we're doing that on top of trying to figure out how to do therapies for our kids. You know and he went on for minutes and every second poll was as powerful as the thirty seconds you heard. So for the Tony's from West the world I want to agree with your public health colleague. But the reason Marty Walsh made this decision yesterday was because of the positivity rate is exploding and if these epidemiologists around the country, not the lunatic Dr Atlas but the real ones are right. And the next six to twelve weeks are going to be the worst period for corona virus. If you're coming from a physically. Challenged. By. Corona virus community. you can't have schools open for people. Can I mean? It's you I obviously agree with that it's not true. No I mean it depends on what you mean by schools opening. Let's let's keep him talking about twenty, seven, hundred students in many of the schools in Boston. There were ten children in whole building. Oh, you mean in a limited way, you mean for high needs kids. Let me finish. Okay. We have a way to open restaurants. We have a way to Oakland public transportation we're allowing for that and in the in the population of students you know the younger students who are least likely to get a carry this disease. You know our tendency is naturally to be overcautious about bringing back. But if you bring them back under, you know reasonable conditions again, we're not talking about bringing back every kid in the Boston public schools simultaneously talking about spreading out ten or fifteen kids building meant to hold three or four hundred kids it can be done it can be done safely given. To you know I'm not talking about you being families and. Focus in Boston you're talking about I don't I spoke to broadly I'm not quarreling with the fact that a limited piece of the population that has greatest need for in person education it might be able to be figured out I'm looking at the bigger picture and it seems to me as this pandemic continues to spread. Beyond limited populations, this is going to be what we're living with for the winter. Is it not? That's what I was trying. You're right I mean I. think these these numbers are going to go up and down the numbers are complicated by what neighborhoods different neighborhoods have different numbers in the city where we we must people all over the place. Then we it's hard to keep track or to ascertain what the average rate is but I think for the foreseeable future, not just school year but next school year we're going to have these disruptions and hopefully, time with allow us to catch up and do a better job online than we've done. But I simply Tony, I'm a parent of a child with complex special needs and navigated her through the school system and I know what that's like under good conditions and long under these conditions and and what he's testimony to is that the learning gaps that the problems of those who are disadvantaged in any way are magnified many full by this kind of crisis and we that's the problem that we've got to figure out how to respond to if we can't serve Tony's child in school what are we going to do to reach out to him? In a way that continues to provide services because his child may not be able to pick up and do things online in the way that other children can't pull one last thing about this. When you say the next school year hoping you mean the spring semester, you don't mean the fall of twenty, twenty, one I'm talking about I get a lot of apprehension from superintendents, school board members around the country right now about you know well, we're going to get a vaccine, but it's not clear when it'll come out or how widely distributed banning the and they're still going to be You know they're still going to be positive tippety rates in some places. People are also thinking ahead about what this looks like in. Twenty, one, twenty, two schooling. Talking to pull rebel former secretary of Education in Massachusetts and Paul yet another consequence of kids not physically being back in school is lack of dental care for so many kids in need I'm sure a lot of people didn't realize I. didn't realize that this was the case how does dental care come into play and how is it provided within public school systems. Well, the out there there are a lot of arrangements with local dental care organizations or hospitals to provide services. Again, this is sort of symbolic of a lot of things that schools wind up doing that they weren't designed to do, and they don't have the full capacity to do I. Mean we're we're more familiar with the way schools provide meals that provide lunches and breakfasts, and in some cases, even dinners for for students but they weren't setup as nutritional organizations mental health big problem before this whole crisis even bigger problem now. But schools don't really have the capacity to address the depth and breadth of mental health problems they're finding. Schools over the years have noticed that some children including fifty percent of the children who get served in Boston, public schools right now have no contact other than what they get in school with a dentist and yet dental problems can have profound effects on a child's health and incapacity to To concentrate even life threatening consequences with long-term infected untreated dental problems. So it the the dental issue is a is a real and present issue, but it's only one of a number of things that we've sort of sloughed onto schools without changing their staffing without changing their funding without changing the number of hours a day they work, and we're asking them to fulfill all those functions and it's unrealistic that he's a broader effort, the community as a whole. Paul revel staying guy returning to Boston for a second there was a I dunno seven eight hour meeting the Boston School Committee that led to a unanimous decision to change the way. Kids are admitted into exam schools. Could you describe the people what was and what will be and then I have a bunch of questions about what was the decision? Well they've been a long-term controversy about admissions, two exam schools exempt schools in. Boston. Not Reflecting the diversity of the student population overall and for a long time, there's been pressure. On the school system to change in recent months. The School Committee established a Special Commission that was headed by community members and and. Others participated on a to come up with an alternative, particularly an alternative in this moment where it was going to be the district was in the process of changing the exam that was to be used as part of the admissions process but it then became apparent that it was going to be very difficult if not impossible to administer an exam and they had to have an admissions process and maybe now is the time to change it. So this committee came out a couple of weeks ago with a plan that said, basically, we're going to do admissions citywide on the basis of grades and and mcat scores and the top. Reserve twenty percent of seats for the top performers in the whole city, and then the rest of the eighty percent will be distributed an algorithm that factored in neighborhoods and gave a greater wait for neighborhoods a low income low-income youngsters and lesser wait for income youngsters and they would do this by neighbor not necessarily by full zipcode but by neighborhood and but you get disproportionality. So Beacon Hill get relatively few of those eighty percents seats and in Roxbury, for example, would get much higher number and so this proposal was brought forward There have been many challenges to it by people who feel that the distribution pattern that it prescribes is unfair in a different direction than the previous formula was and it generated a huge controversy that came before the school committee last night and the School Committee basically decided in the seven zero vote that they would go ahead and endorse this plan for a single year. Now, a lot of people feel this is a foot in the door and there won't be long term permanent changes that look a lot like what's been done here for advocates they see it as A. Victory for equity and in better demographic representation in exam schools than had ever existed before for those who are current subscribers to the exam schools or who had in mind their children going there and had basically felt that the system was fair and they had a line there preparation with that system They feel like many of them feel like they're being squeezed out of the process So it's not going to go away as a controversy I think it was surprising that there was such a strong unanimous vote on this I think you from from sort of. evidentiary standpoint. This is flawed plan but any plan would be flawed in these times in other words, to get a fair calculation of. In the absence of a tool that applies to all students they're gonNA, use them cast a certain degree particularly as a substitute for grades but but to do that in this environment of Corona virus is impossible to do, and so they're settling for the next. It relies on rating and we all know that grade inflation exists that some schools. More than others, and that will tend to advantage those students and so that's a that's a weakness of the system. But on the whole system, very much needed to move in the direction of equity at fair representation and I think this is a step in that direction and I'm assuming the commentary broke down pretty much on racial lines. Is that a fair? Assumption. I wasn't at the meeting. But it looks to me like the more advantage upper income neighborhoods who will see fewer seats on this new plan intend to be more white than other neighborhoods. had the most objections about this plan and neighborhoods that were composed low income and families of caller. saw this as a significant movement. In the right direction you know I started the show with Chuck Todd we started the show three hour two and a half hours ago talking about the cynical side of me. The cynical side of me ear suggests that leaders knew there was a problem and. There was a great disproportionality that needed to be inequity the need to be remedied. They couldn't get it together to deal with it straight up in normal times. So they're using the pandemic as a way to change the system without having to say, we're just changing system because it's an equitable. Now we're changing the system because. Of the pandemic is that too cynical? I don't think it's cynical. I think that's partly human nature I mean it's sometimes only crisis. In, crisis danger and opportunity It's an opportunity because the danger to shift things I think a lot of things may shift public schools. You know as we go forward to as a result of the stress of this moment we're going to see some changes that are going to be permanent lasting that but the people you know in their ordinary day to day nursery, she takes over and. They're not willing to do to have the discomfort of change, but now you gotTa Change Anyway. So what changes can we load in I? Mean a lot of us are feeling this is the time to transform public education as we know it. So Paul reveled just at the same time that we're looking at the exam schools whole different sector of Education Vocational schools come off magazine has this really interesting piece about who is entering vocational schools at this point and way it. It seems like the system is also almost being exploited to the expense of poor and students of color. Yeah. This is an ironic controversy jared because for a long time and in many other states, you know career technical vocational high schools have been viewed as a dumping ground for underachieving students and to get them out of the mainstream schools and into a trade and in Massachusetts are a career. Technical schools are actually among our highest performing schools in the state and This hasn't always been the case Back in nineteen ninety-three. When we were passing the education reform. Act and and the Vocational. Superintendents Association, CAMP BEFORE US and set the standards where to hide their students should be healthy standards and we counter argued and set policy that held US suits, same standards and sure enough the schools adjusted and they have very high. Attendance rates they have high mcat scores they have high college going rates they've done very well as they've gotten more attractive and more appealing. They've been able to draw higher performing students in and the law as previously constituted allowed them to be selective. So there are a little bit like exam schools within their respective regions. They can. They can have admissions criteria for students, and in recent years, those criteria have been going to higher performing students leaving some of the lower performance performing students often students of color and students are low income students out of the vocational schools which were once a refuge for. Them and they're getting organized and complaining to the State. This has been simmering issue for a long time. It's not particularly precipitated by Koga, but it has come to the forefront and to the commissioner's credit. He's been pushing this and pushing these schools to the admissions process and make it fair. So the board had a lot of public testimony on this yesterday and I understand some measure with respect to this is gonna come up at the December board meeting of the State Board of Education, we only have met left Paul Allen. Return. For about thirty seconds to the Boston School Committee. Last couple of minutes that chair Michael Lokondo don't know if that's how you pronounce his name. Resigned after apparently during this hearing I find this. Beyond belief is apparently mocking the names particularly, it appears of Asian, American families or commenters here. You know more about this than the her and global running. He was under a lot of pressure from a lot of city councillors and other. I don't know much more and I gather he's resigned. But he has given good service but I guess he joins Jeffrey Toobin in a live Mike boo-boo support group. Now I don't know if this I don't know if I don't know if making fun of the names of no. is a boo bones and he he it's unacceptable it by any standard I mean he he clearly regrets it but he engaged in the first place and I think it's appropriate that he'd be asked to resign and by the way luckily, rather time Marjorie isn't here. But next week or next time you're on you Margaret. I can debate my. Favorite topic about school committees whether or not they should be elected and this I would argue is a good reason why they should be so you and Marjorie and I can have that the leaking kick that down to Mars you're winning the I know I know Paul a pleasure to talk to you as always thanks for your time. Appreciate. Okay you Jimmy Jared, take care. Much Paul revel is a professor at Harvard University's Graduate School of Education where he also runs the education redesign lab, his latest book Co authored with Lane Weiss's broader boulder better how schools and communities help students overcome the disadvantages of poverty. So we have a little bit time Jim what's coming up on greater boss? Well, I actually have the former CIA director John Brennan with me tonight written this book called undaunted and it's a lot about his life in the, but it is really a scathing indictment of the president of the United States. There's no love lost their. He will join me tonight also preview the debate, deb Ramirez law school professor at Northeastern and her husband was chief justice. Ralph Gansler just died A. Few weeks ago she's not coming on so much. Just the celebrate him to celebrate his work and continue it namely fighting against a fictions in this state it really is a noble cause it a very hard time. She'll be joined by Lou for who runs the masters that's Communities Action Network and Christina. Quinn's got a great thing as part of this covert in the classroom series that we've been doing in our newsroom all night at seven o'clock I'm Jim Bratty jared and. See You tomorrow.

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What To Do When Friends, Family And Roommates Don't Agree On Coronavirus Precautions

Radio Boston

47:30 min | 8 months ago

What To Do When Friends, Family And Roommates Don't Agree On Coronavirus Precautions

"Centuries of art has been sitting in the dark for six months waiting to show itself again on September. Twenty six that will that's when the Museum of Fine Arts says it will open to the public again with a host of new safety protocols, masks required strict social distancing, and a rethinking of which art is on display will museum meet the moment and will it be enough to recover financially after laying off one hundred people over the summer joining us now is the director of the MFA Matthew Teitelbaum, Matthew Welcome back to radio. Boston. Nice to be with you. It's great to have you and I know you have been working towards reopening for a while. Now, some other museums opened his earliest. July. Why the longer wait for the FAA and what makes you feel ready now? Well you know we took the time we needed to ensure that an old creaky building could be as welcoming and a safe as possible we were on lockdown During the period we've been closed, which means really nobody in the building we had to do it real cleaning etc after but but the real reason the deep reason is wanted to open with two special exhibitions we. Had planned them. Before we closed they were ready to go and we wanted to show them and share them with our public. The challenge was many aspects already been designed for an old audience expectation had to redesign the exhibitions. We had to create safe protocols. We had to take down laws. We had to replace some signs on the wall with bigger sign injury had to go to. Use handphones. All of those things had cascading effects and Florida's down and just interrupt if you don't mind for a minute and just asked to give our listeners the the full picture what are these two exhibits to win? Yeah. So. So so when we're GONNA Open in three phases when you first come, you'll come to the American wing. You'll see the great treasures of the American collection. You'll see women take the floor, which is an extraordinary collection of work by women from our from our collection has been on view and has been tweaked and changed site to add new artists we'll be showing. Black Histories Book Futures Exhibition of work by black artists in our collection curated by students in Boston that'll be phase. One American Wing second-phase will be the opening of writing the future Basque. Yeah and the HIP hop generation, which looks at a group of young artists and young artists active in New York in the early nineteen eighties who made work together and their work was. Energetic colorful used a lot of text and language and poetry to say we want to be in the dialogue about what art is these were mostly artists of color they were younger they were multidisciplinary. So it looks at a moment in New York our history that's really resonant today 'cause it's about how communities form and then the third phase Oh. This is gonNA happen two weeks after each other says. All going to happen fairly quickly will be the opening of our Monet in Boston Exhibition, which looks at almost forty works by Claude Monet. The great impressionist, almost all drawn from our collection. It's the first time in a generation. When all of our money paintings are home, they're actually in the building not on loan exhibitions and not elsewhere, and we're going to show them an exhibition along with a small. Exhibition of his Compatriot. Policies. So something really energetic something really contemplated something really about history something really about this moment. So we think with that content. And the safety protocols we've put in place we will be a place that people want to be, and frankly that's why I took the time that it did. Well that makes sense. Matthew with the very beginning you said, you wanted to make the space both welcoming and safe, and what strikes me is that that mirrors the two intersecting moments that were in safe being in my mind a reference to the pandemic and welcoming meaning This moment when we are working on Rachel's justice in our communities and for many that's been a particular focus since the death of George Floyd in May but we've talked. Repeatedly with you here on Radio Boston it being a longer tail after an incident a racial incident, racist incident with middle school students at the MFA well, over a year ago I think close to a year and a half ago. Now in listening to these exhibits that you've chosen, it feels like this is part of your goal to be a museum that is for all the populations of the city of Boston is that right? Yes and you say very well, we have to be I museum for all of Boston. That means we have to invitation and we have to have the right welcome and the only way you have. The right welcome is for the views and the content and the energy of the institution to be reflective of the audiences you desire, and what I would only say as a small corrective is much of this work we were doing we've been here for the last three or four years. It is core to our strategic plan from two thousand and seventeen. This notion of how do you create experiences? Around exhibitions and the presentation of art that really make people feel as though they can connect. So they can really connect which is why when we did the Nubia show which we did just under a year ago, which is you know civilization many Millennia old we actually look at see the point of view of active artists and scholars and students in the Boston area and Had them help us understand what this history meant to them today, and that invitation of different voices into the museum is what I think will finally start shifting the museum. So that feels so it belongs to all the Boston of very, very high goal for us. So that's the welcoming part. Now, let's talk about the safety part. What kinds of measures have you put in place to reopen during the pandemic and what will that do to things like the number of people who can come in at once and revenues from ticket sales people coming in planning to come into the museum. So. Two parts to the to the answer we're going to have very specific protocols you have to go online or to your ticket and bring your taken in advance There'll be no actual ticket transactions in the space. Let me know coach check by the way they'll be no food They'll be food trucks outside, but they won't be actual in the cafeteria. The restaurant will not be open we just can't gather people in that way it's not safe enough. So you're going to get your ticket before you're gonNA come to museum. You're going to be greeted by somebody who smiles and says come on in we're glad you're here you're GonNa have a very specific route you're gonNA. Follow. So there's not going to be a lot of random wandering through the museum. It's going to be comfortable. It's GonNa be easy, but it's not GONNA be random. It's going to be in a in a line and you're gonNA walk through and you're going to go to the in the first phase to the American wing. You'RE GONNA be able to walk through the American wing with fair bit of freedom you're going to walk around. You'RE GONNA look at this gallery to gallery. They're going to be some changes some moments in the gallery that it'll be pretty interesting because we brought some new works apart out of storage sort of changed the narrative a bit and stuff like that. Then completely re furbish the washrooms that they are automatic. We have hand sanitizer virtually every step you take. It's there for you at your discretion to us, and of course, everybody will have to wear a mask. It is something we're simply going to insist on we'll give masks for those who don't bring them but the idea is that you want to see the people you're with. Showing the care for you that you will also share with them, and so that would be a standard that we will need to meet, and then has starts building more and more more areas and pathways through the museum opened up. So Matthew those are significant investments and significant restrictions talk to us about the financial health of the museum right now especially given six months of closure the need to lay off approximately one hundred people over the summer, where are you financially and what is the path forward to financial survival, Saris, financial survival, and stability. Can never say that you've done the right thing. You can never say that you've taken the actions that are necessary particularly in a context number one that's unpredictable and number two where whatever actions you take you 'cause. A sense of loss, we actually laid off fifty seven people. A number of other people took early retirement on very favorable terms. But in terms of actual layoffs, it was it was lower the number here using but but the point still holds we're a smaller staff. We can do less. And we have less capability to raise the funding 'cause support the institution we estimate it will take between two and years to get back to balance in other words even opening the doors is a losing proposition from a purely financial point of view, there will be some revenue. We do have an endowment that's still Generate some funding but our standard. Earned revenue, which are things like the admission and the food and the retail operations are severely severely impacted. So what how what's my answer to you were using some cash reserves? We're doing some fundraising. we are being very careful with our costs and we're trying to narrow the gap between our expenses and our revenues as much as we can. We have a plan. That will get us back to some form of equilibrium between two and three years if sanctions are correct but I can only say to you it's a very uncertain environment where you know our business is GonNa stay close longer. Is it going to be a second outbreak? What's going to happen with the universities in the schools? These are all things that impact. The Operation Museum. So with that in mind what is most important to you? Let's say over the next six months as the leader of the MFA. The. Most important thing is that we we continue to be and build upon our reputation has a cherished institution in this community. The people come. They share. They advocate they support. The idea the museum in Boston and all it does for Boston in creating community in sharing deep pleasure in allowing people's imaginations are all those things that museums do by bringing people together. Is. Deepened and that's slowly maybe my wish would be not. That we get back to a more than normal cadence that people understand that by being the museum that active celebration experience makes us all stronger. That is my biggest hope. And that's Matthew Teitelbaum Director of the Museum of Fine Arts Matthew. Thanks so much for the time today and good luck with the reopening later this month. Thank you so much. See You at your museum finer. The Middlesex District Attorney is out with more than four hundred pages of documents related to the two thousand eleven police killing of a black man in his home in Framingham Sixty eight year old. Yuri. Stamps was watching a celtics game when a SWAT team entered his house on a warrant looking for his stepson he was ordered to the ground and wild down he was shot and killed by a Framingham police. Officer the DA at the time ruled the shooting officer tripped and the death was an accident. The officer was never criminally charged Middlesex da Marian. Ryan is now reviewing that case and Radio Boston's Walter Wolfman caught up with her just a few minutes ago to ask about its status and listeners we were having a few technical difficulties at the time which you are GonNa here on the line but bear with us. We, have released. Documents related to the investigations done. Almost. Ten years ago, and we are doing to look at other therio gather things from other sources that we are doing that Pete. And as you see, what are what are the various options for moving forward? Well. Right now, it's a little bit early to speculate about that. We are. You know there was investigations done in the past that reached a certain results. Other material has come for like with going to be looking at that and we'll see where we are with that. So. To take just one part of the case there advocates and family members of stamps who say the forensics don't match up with the police account is this the type of thing that you're looking into? PARENTHESIS are always a pool of the Times of investigations. Yes. Okay And also you know that you stamps family and friends have been calling for this case to be reopened for nine years. Now he he was killed in two thousand eleven. Why is this review happening now? Right now we are taking this is really the fall that's been made us right now. So we're responding to that and you know, I feel very strongly about these matters we conducted an investigation and obviously we need to do that. With some degree of containing information wants an investigation is over the public should have as much access as possible to those materials. people can disagree with the results is something an investigation beaches, but they should have an opportunity to understand exactly what it is. That was available. You know sometimes what you hear somebody might have said or he's here might have been something is not. What we saw in the evidence. So it just benefits everybody for people to be able to do what they can do with the documents we've released, which is really look through and see the information that was available back then when they did that investigation. So you know no matter what happens here, going forward, a man is dead and he can't be brought back on in your mind is justice at issue here and if so what might justice for Stamps family actually look like? You know one of the things that I attended one of rallies. Around this case and one of the things that you mentioned a little bit is and we always keeping in mind and doing our work you know even though it's Almost ten years to see misery Sam's family and friends you know that that's Still looms large in their family. And his loss with a tragedy to them. and. That is something we keep in mind always as we look at going forward in any investigation, you know we do what? We were able to do an investigation and we get to whatever results and whatever the next step is in a case, but for families that lost really never had. And can we anticipate review of other cases in the months and years ahead and do you think more broadly? Da should make this more intentional part of their work going forward. Anytime we are looking at a situation whatever whatever it is when somebody has lost their life that's very significant piece of our. And when we are able to when we've done the work, we need to do I believe it's very important that people have access to the information we knew. And they can see how it is that we got to the result we got this. And finally, Any parting thoughts for us. I think that. You know it's Important to keep in mind that we act to protect public stacey, that's our charge and. Fight of people feeling again say is knowing how we do that and that's why when it's appropriate, it's important for be able to share with the public been the practice of my office since I became district attorney. When we do these investigations have post those periods and we've taken that same approach to this even though it's an investigation from a different administration. Important for people to be able to see the what we do and the information we have in doing that. And that was Middlesex da Maryland Marian. Ryan speaking to Radio Boston's Walter Wolfman. Just a bit ago. Now, we also spoke earlier to Selvyn chambers a friend of the stamps family and spokesperson for the group Justice for Yuri to ask his thoughts on the new review the case I started by asking about how he remembers yeary stamps, Mr Stamps. As I always call him was a gentle giant, a pillar in our community. And I always say. There are two things I felt when Mr Stamps was around I felt held accountable and I also felt safe and he was A. Fellow. With big stature but his stash was not what was intimidating was intimidating was really him adviser you and you not wanting to disappoint him he was an avid sports fan. So he went to all of his. Games and he went to games at the Cambridge Latin Highschool for kids at weren't related to him. He was every one of the basketball games and the impact of him. Getting killed by the Framingham police rippling effect throughout our community. So it was very sad not just for his family rhetoric anyone that kind of came across his path. That impactful and so. We're really looking to. Keep his memory alive also. Pushing forward to make sure that justice is done in regards to the officer Paul Duncan who. Allegedly said He. Accidentally shot mister stains group violates every swath. Rule. Let's back up there for a minute Salvin and I want to get into that. But let's start with the rally that you're attending at the State House later today tell us about that wire attending the rally. So the rally is being hosted by mass action and there will be several different groups who will be there and in particular family members from different. People who have been impacted by police brutality or whose life was taking. At the hands of the police and the whole focus is to really bring awareness to. The issues at hand and to also. Injustice for many people who have been impacted by police brutality and police violence. So the Middlesex County. Ryan has begun releasing records looking at the documents herself. What is your desired outcome from that and is that what you wanted a Da Ryan to do? Well. We're glad that place with just the first step know this case never went through criminal process. and. I think that some people think because you want a civil case that you also went to a criminal process that is not the case in for us. You know we want called Dunkin to be held accountable the officer who shot yes China. Yes when you look at some of the information. About this subject or the bullet and it'd be an accident and it just doesn't match up with the forensics. And, the fact that they had. A person they were looking for. Outside of the home. And steals out they had to do a raid in out if you look into it, they had a nonviolent search drug search warrant. Nonviolent which means that usually a knock on the door, your police officers show up and they ask for. Jane John. Doe. In this case, they decide who even though it was non-violent drug search warrant they sent a SWAT team that makes. No Sense. So therefore. Framingham police were looking for some Ashen. I do need to point out there that the former district attorney of Middlesex County did determine that the officer who fired the fatal round did. So accidentally, it sounds like you, you don't find that a plausible finding. No don't find it implausible because of the. Evidence that was presented an. The if you look at the documents I, believe that he only got. A statement from Paul Duncan himself explaining what happened The author again yes, and so we find that just. Appalling. Are you looking for criminal prosecution of Officer Dunkin? Oh I think we want justice right so if justice is he loses his job. and. He's no longer in that. We would we want justice justice was not done having civil case settled out of court. Know in. giving. Money to people. For loss of a loved one, can never put A. Price on someone's. Life Right. It's never going to bring him back I'd. It did not serve. Justice to prisoner inflicted the the pain. Do you think that Da Marian Ryan will reopen the case or take new action when her review of these documents that have been released is done. We're hoping that there's a deep dive into this information. And that justice is done. A stamps was killed by police in two thousand eleven. That's nine years ago now, and we are now in an incredible moment where it seems the whole country is reckoning with police violence police brutality, the role of police in our Si- society. Are you reflecting on his death differently now in this new moment do you think the world is ready to reflect on his death differently now? I think the world reflecting on. His desk and George Floyd and Eric. Brown. So if you look at the atrocities across the country, you know the whole world's looking at it people are paying attention. You know when you look at the faces in the crowd at a rally when they're not only Brown people, you know there's a diverse group of people who are standing. In the manding justice. That's a good thing. Right. So that wasn't happening in the sixties you had mostly people of color did have some some white folks that were joining them right? At a cost. But now you have people who are no longer standing on the sideline you know because. This is not a spectator sports you know people need to speak up in in speak. As John. Lewis, would say make some good trouble I in. The. Group that just stamps where we WANNA make some good trouble, right so this doesn't happen again and you know we can't control that if you put. Laws and policies in place right that hold police accountable people's actually a little bit different. So Salvin to that point police reform legislation is still under negotiation at the Massachusetts State House, they have essentially until. Three in some critics worry that that is enough time to lose the momentum for change is your stamps's story and argument for police reform and if so what do you want to see change? Well of course, it is right. We don't want to have any kind of immunity we WANNA make sure that is training in place that there's a better process for what I community policing, which is engagement with the community and a non intrusive way I. think There's a plethora of different things that have to happen and starts with dialogue and it starts with Coliseum as well. 'cause dollar loan. Is Not going to change the circumstances that's Salvin Chambers, a friend of the stamps family and a spokesperson for the group Justice for Yuri and a note that Selvyn accidentally combined the names of Eric Garner and Michael. Brown to black men who died at the hands of police. We also reached out to the Framingham Police Department asking if they'd like to join today's conversation, but they have not responded. In the fight against the corona virus public health guidance has been stick to home when you can, and if you do interact with people outside of your household, stay apart and wear masks still six months in restaurants in many businesses are open. Some are returning to offices. So what is acceptable behavior and how has that question asked? Of course, from an appropriate six feet away impacted our friendships. Tell us how have you navigated hanging out with friends in and around your corona virus bubble and? What about when they expand that bubble outside your control? Maybe you have a new roommate how do you navigate the rules with them and their partners and their friends? We want you to join us for this conversation. Call us at eight, hundred, four, two, three, eight, two, five, five that's one eight, hundred, four to three talk. We have two guests who are also going to join us for this conversation. The first is Margaret Willison Burian Culture writer welcome back Margaret Hi it's nice to be here. And Camille Washington she hosts the culture podcast the unfriendly Blackhawks East welcome back Camille I it's so good to be back. So let me start with you. How are you in this? You know depending on how you count it anywhere from six months to eighth month of the pandemic. Well, I appreciate the question I've been telling people that I'm like pandemic. Good. Not. Good like foreign normal period of time. But very, very good for a once in a generation like lifetime events. I guess that's I. Guess That's good. Margaret. How about you I you laughing at Camille answer their love that answer I what I've been saying is that like materially I know myself to be better often like ninety nine point nine percent of people right now but that things are still. As for me as they are for everyone at least lightly garbage like lately too severely garbage and. Even get into this guilt cycle if your basic conditions are okay like we couldn't possibly feel bad about being cooped up in my apartment because you don't have to worry about child care my job is stable. No one in my family has been sick so on and so forth. But the thing is other people suffering doesn't actually make me feel better. It tends to make me feel worse. So I'm just like very worried for everyone in the world and then also unable to see my friends or hugged people, which is a real trial for me. So. So let's Let's talk about the seeing friends and the trial of that and Margaret stay with you for a minute you live in an apartment in JP four bedroom. How has that been? Have you been alone are you do you have roommates? How has that worked? So I have roommates we have three I have three roommates and. Functionally moved out for the most part at the beginning of the pandemic to move in with their boyfriends at least for. Parts of the of the pandemic. So it was just me and my roommate mallory in what we've deemed Spinster House but. In September my older brother actually moved into one of the rooms in the apartment in an October The other room is GONNA be occupied by a friend moving from New York so it'll be a lot more to navigate. Once there are four of us and we're lucky we've got a lot of really nice outdoor space at our apartment. So we have people come in spend time on the patio or spend time on the porch and was able to do a surprise party and concert with a local musician Dietrich Strauss on Saturday in the side yard with everybody staying socially distant from one another But. It's so much more to juggle and once. You add in all the other people it becomes much much more complicated. One of our commutes had a boyfriend who was coming and going, and he also had roommates and that's just like a much bigger pod. Yet. So Camille does that resonate with you? I know you live with your partner, but you're seeing some friends and how to use at the rules. Oh my gosh it's so difficult. I? Mean I've been trying to avoid using the language of rules because I think it's easy for people to feel like you're being judgmental when you talk about things in that way. So I've tried to keep conversations around like what's your comfort level? What's my comfort level? How how can we meet each other where we are? And when I'm doing that, I have to understand like I don't have roommates I do have like couple privilege. So my partner and I live together in a two bedroom in Cambridge with two dogs. So we are very well setup. Kinda emotionally for this time, and so for me, I have needed to be really sensitive to the different situations that everyone else's n. Let me turn to the listeners and listeners join this conversation. We're all having this shared experience and tell us how the pandemic has impacted your friendships, your relationships with roommates partners, and where you have disagreement on quote unquote the House rules or what's allowed or what's a safe practice? What do you do and how has that affected? Your relationships eight, hundred, four, two, three, eight, two, five. That's one eight, hundred, four to three talk. Let's turn to Jay from Brooklyn Jay go ahead. I have what I read about based on travels and recently been traveling Joe Zona is that there's a big. Change in in the tone and the nature of how how you need to protected and it's a social pressure. If I I remember going to a Bar and the the Patriot was like, well, you don't need a basket or we don't. You don't need it. I can't you what you're saying there's that They consider some of the groups even consider that this is like a boxing bout or something Let me show you know who is more important. So it's kind of a different. when you travel from northeast to places like Arizona and EC two stark difference of how social distancing or wearing a mask or having you know washing hands is not considered quote unquote call. Actually have a name actually I'm crazy. Well I'M GONNA take it back and I'm glad we hung on with your J. Through Cova. Crazy because I suspect that's term we will hear and US again. So turning back to Margaret and Camille. I noticed Jay said in a bar they said, you don't even need a mask. Well, of course here you can't go to a bar because bars are face four and they're not even open in the Commonwealth we do see mixed signals both based on place but also based on preference and and what do we do with that? Margaret? Well, I don't know. Though be mixed signals so much as mixed reverence for the signals like the science is has been developing over time and that certainly been challenging but the science right now is very clear like it's not safe to be in an enclosed space with poor ventilation with a of people who's pandemic practices, your not familiar with like that's a very high risk situation But because we don't have sufficient support for the businesses and for people working in the economy's impacted by this kind of rules We're just caught in this like. Capitalist. Death race. Basically between like. Well, what are we going to do? Are we going to respect the science has been put forward about what is safe and what is unsafe or are we going to change? What's available because it's necessary for restaurants to be open. So in listening to you that I mean in all fairness right for the restaurant, it is necessary for them to be open. That is somebody's livelihood, right? It's a small business and our economic survival. Is Important and this something I'd be curious to hear from both of you and since I just heard from you Margaret I'll start with. Camille. But I'd love to hear from both of you on this. We do not seem to have a consensus on what is safe enough and I wonder if either of you have thought about that have talked about that inside your bubble and where you come out on that because that feels like it's part of what's burning. The fault lines between people and communities in this moment Camille. Yeah say that question of safe enough. It is a massively massively difficult question and I am not a scientist so I will not pretend to know the answer but I do know what feels safe for me based on all the guidance that we have received. So I, have yet to even eat on a patio at a restaurant there's a way which I'm like, okay. I would love to see my friends of course, people are going out there having Margaritas on rooftops I love. That for you but the reality is if you and me don't live in the same household, how can we be safely distance from one another you know eating or drinking together on a patio and so that has meant that that's just not a thing that I do and you know the beauty of takeout hall is you can take that Margarita and go to a park and sit far apart from your your friends and have a lovely chat and just feel secure in that knowledge. So that's what I choose to do It's it's mask on within I don't know seven or eight feet because I feel like the whole six feet thing feel like people believe that that number is magic and I think of six feet as being a minimum right and so I really you might want let is So, this is the stuff that's interesting. Right because you feel more comfortable at seven or eight feet, but the public health guidance is six feet and that's what I mean. Camille about Zafer enough. You don't WanNa go to a patio. With with friends. But maybe some of your friends do hoppner I do you understand where I'm coming from on that I'm just I'm so interested in these differences in what makes each of us feel safe. Yeah. I think it's just about having that conversation right and having people around you understand where you're coming from. So I don't live with. A person who is high risk, but my father is very, very high risk category and so that changes the way that I think about it great and so that you know kind of back door into my mind you know if you're my friend and you don't have that kind of situation with a parent or another loved one, you might have a different threshold for Risk I. Mean we're at the point now six or eight months. Into this as you say, however, you count it where we're in this for the long haul. So just sitting in your house, all the time is not a viable strategy but we all have to figure out what's the level of risk that where each personally able to take on, and then we allow all have to be grownups and communicate you know what risk feels comfortable to us to the people that were trying to see. And I feel like that communication piece boy is that at the center of what we're talking about Margaret I do WanNa, go back to the phones but beforehand, I want to give you a chance to reflect and react while it's funny to talk about all this stuff sort of academically. But we one thing that we have establishes commute. I are friends in real life and we've had to have some of these conversations. We had friends who visited from out of state and. They and I feel comfortable doing like a quick. Hug as long as everybody has their mask on right and Camille did not feel comfortable doing that and what happened is. I stated my comfort level, the people who are receptive to it returned the affection, the People Camille who weren't receptive to it didn't hug and like the key thing is everybody communicated clearly. Everybody communicated that like whatever answer was given was going to be received with generosity and patients. And and no one took. Pandemic choices as personal judgment. Right. And I do have to ask did you feel that was a and understanding environment where you could say this is what I'm comfortable with and you would get that. Oh my gosh. Yes. Yes. and I think it's important. Yeah. Just say it and always know like you know I love you to pieces but you know we feel the way that we feel. The phones here one. Go ahead. Be. There's so much that we don't know yet. Right. So it's it's very hard to calculate risks when we don't have any of the figures to perform calculations with. So it just everyone making their best guess and kindness and patients are so important. Let's go to the phones here eight, hundred, four, two, three, eight, two, five, five that's eight hundred, four to three talk Sarah's on the line from Salem High Sarah you're on with all three of us what's on your mind? Hi How are you? Right? Well thanks. so I like to share my experience. about our comfort levels my boyfriend and I will live in an apartment like less than six hundred square feet and his way more strict than I am. That has been very challenging and And one of the funniest things was that we eventually. Agreed that we can have people over and the backyard and no one comes upstairs. In one day people came back yard and it started raining and people had to come upstairs and he was giving me the look like. People are coming up and I had to tell him to just chill. And we'll see how it goes but that was the. Challenge. Class. That is challenging and those unexpected moments I think kind of our part of what tinker with US writer toyed with us or mess with us when we're trying to establish these distinctions did Sarah's story resonate with either of you Margaret Margarethen Commu Oh, my gosh, that was like a story from my own life like last week my older brother who lives in Chicago he was visiting him and his wife, and we had planned to have a picnic but the weather was miserable last week and so they needed to come inside the apartment and my partner and I had a very similar kind of conversation. The eye contact we decided we would do is common side. We'll try and stay his distance as we can. We'll open a window and will keep our masks on. And we'll all get cova tests asap and that was just like you know. But what I have done that for someone that wasn't my brother probably not like and so that's the other thing that you have to factor into it like like how badly do you need to see this person like how long will it be before? You can see this person again Have you both been tested and have been tested more than once Margaret I've been tested but only once? I have been tested now twice and one of the test today. and. An okay. Margaret. Why are you thinking about getting another one soon? because. That ten or things shifting my brother has moved in Roy getting another new roommate in October and just having that information to hands just knowing that I'm okay. Right now is important. I'm also really interested in trying to get an antibody test because I had a flu type A sickness in February and I don't believe that it was covert but. We know so little and it seems like any more you can know is a benefit. Do you find that your friends. Both of you are responsive to that are also getting tested are thinking about you know what are we gonNa do when sniffles and coughs are. Of the order of the day in the colder months. Greg questions yeah. Starting to think about that and starting to order my lake more industrial grade picnic blanket that can handle you know sodden ground and can can bear all of the fun weather that we get up here in Massachusetts But in terms of thinking about testing, it's not something that we should be doing unnecessarily but I think if you have someone inside Your House unexpectedly or you go to a gathering and someone hugs you without your consent, which is something that I have heard happen Can Be Nice to just you know wait a few days and go get a test at one of the many pop up clinics. Cambridge is doing them regularly city of Boston is as well Just you know for that peace of mind like for yourself and also to be considerate to the people around you, that's how I think about it. Anyhow. An well, it's been A. No Go ahead Margaret I certainly know people who've taken extreme precautions and still got in the virus and not really been presenting symptoms. So testing just teams ferry ferry important Listeners have you been tested? Are You satisfied with the results? How frequently do you feel you need to be tested in order to feel safe? Eight, hundred, four, two, three, eight, five that's one eight, hundred, four to three talk. So I want to ask you both you both are observers of the moment right? You're bloggers your cultural writer. We've been talking a lot among the Radio Boston team about. This struggle with. Wanting to and desperately needing to meet the public health recommendations dealing with the gap between what we hear from public health experts and what's actually allowed for example, at the state level and recognizing that there is a mental health component to being so isolated and so separated. Are you guys seeing those things in conflict and and how as observers of the culture? Would you explain or talk about that Camille? Maybe you can go first there. Oh Gosh. I don't know that I have a good answer, just a small question for you. I mean I think it just being intentional about your relationships and finding ways to make even virtual time together feel more like real and tangible. So for example, I started a book club that's just me and my one other very good friend. and. It gives us an excuse to check in with each other every couple of weeks and talk about something that is not related to the pandemic or our work stress or whatever, and just like connect. So we think getting like a creative and stepping outside the box in terms of. How we are relating to each other helps helps us feel more like connected and this time when we're not, we're just not able to to hug and kiss and hang out in bars the way that we want to. You Margaret. You know I have a slightly different orientations because I'm single and Sort of have been trying to date during the pandemic rate, which means engaging like a certain amount of risk or at least contemplating a certain amount of risk and asking the people in my apartment to also take that risk on and so for a while there is a terrible dilemma where like you would match with people and like consistently if somebody was willing to meet up with you in person and maybe not be socially distanced, they were not taking the pandemic lead sufficiently seriously for that to be anything contemplating that was like a very special category. And more and more I've been finding people are people who are approaching it sensibly but are getting to a point now where they're willing to sort of take risks and it's tough you know companionship is really important. Not Having to feel like your life in this category is just on ice for a year is important but there are stories like this wedding that we're hearing about main rate where it was sixty people indoors and from that a huge number of people have been infected and three people have died none of whom attended the wedding and You. Just you never WANNA be one of those stories and it's so hard to control whether you're going to be. Yeah and the main wedding. When you said none of them having gone to the wedding I, think you mean of the three people who have passed that we're getting acted to that spread? Yeah. Camille. What's going to be permanently different now? and. Our last thirty seconds or so. I think something that I want to keep from this time is just the sense of intentionally that I have around my time with others and making sure that time spent with someone is quality time meaning fulltime. Yeah. How about you Margaret in a similar way one of the really nice things about the pandemic. One thing that's hard is that Camille feels as far away for me in Cambridge, as you know, my friend who lives in Omaha. that's tough because I'm used to having Camilo feel really close. But yeah, the fact that all of my friends were sort of flung across the country are now suddenly. So available to me and all of these ways of spending time with them have become more plausible. That's great and I'd like to be able to carry that forward. That's Margaret Willison Librarian Culture writer and Camille Washington who host the culture podcast, the unfriendly black hotties. Thanks to both of you. Thank you for happiness and Q. Spent a pleasure.

Boston Camille Washington Margaret Da Marian Ryan partner New York Yuri writer Matthew Officer George Floyd DA Salvin Chambers Middlesex County FAA Framingham Florida Cambridge officer
BPR Full Show 11/11/20: Soldiering On

Boston Public Radio Podcast

2:45:26 hr | 6 months ago

BPR Full Show 11/11/20: Soldiering On

"Support for boston. Public radio comes from harvard. Pilgrim healthcare innovator in health benefits solutions that are built on insight from businesses and individuals in our community more at harvard. Pilgrim dot org ahead on boston. Public radio early analysis of covid nineteen vaccine developed by pfizer. Shows that may be ninety percent effective which scientists say is encouraging and company executives say manufactured in the united twenty million people by the end of the year provided they receive emergency use authorization joining us to discuss why we should feel good about this. News is mit economist. John gruber and then we'll take a calls and find out if you're planning to get the vaccine. Once it's available in the wake of a prolonged election. President trump refused to concede. The president elect joe biden refusing to hand over classified documents or grant in the five and transition team access like every other administration has normally done trump also begun purging federal officials including leaders agencies oversee nuclear weapons stockpiles. Joining us to discuss the national security implications here is cnn analyst. Juliette kind on boston. Public radio any nine seven. Gp h body. i might. You're you're listening to boston. Public radio eighty nine seven. Gbh login see the new york times thing really cold all the states the to referred out all of the Fraudulent voting that had happened and they haven't found any they haven't found any right. they haven't found any. We'll talk more about that a little bit later in the show yesterday the us surpassed ten million confirmed coronavirus cases. One million of which happened in the last week alone. A nationwide search shows no sign of slowing down hospitalizations of hit an all time high. The death toll is nearing two hundred. Forty thousand massachusetts is not much better. So why is mit economist. Jonathan gruber saying we can feel hopeful about getting corona virus under control. He joins us on line to explain. John is the ford professor of economics at mit. He's instrumental in creating both the master's healthcare reform and the affordable care. Act a little bit later less than we thought what he thought about. Supreme court hearing yesterday. His latest book is jump. Starting america how breakthrough science can revive economic growth. And the american dream. Welcome to the optimistic. Jonathan gruber how are ya john. I'm great how are you guys. Hey terrific john. We're gonna be great after talking to you. I hope well we wanted to obviously start about this. I think it's great news about a pfizer and their vaccines. Are you hopeful. And if so why well. I mean i actually. My up day is only partly based on that. But let's let's let's start with that so the so there's a new kind of in the street These calls so called m. r. a. vaccines which target the spike protein which causes krona virus Their their brand new way to make vaccines and The good news is there likely they. They were presumably much very likely to be more effective than traditional vaccine. We all know with our flu. Shot that there's were playing craps. You know we get the flu shop as only maybe a sixty percent chance. It stops the flu That's what i that's the kind of odds traditional vaccine's we're looking to deliver where new marin a vaccines may be much more effective and indeed the very early news From pfizer trial is and ninety percent effectiveness of the vaccine. So that's that's the good news now on this one i be a little more pessimistic than the news. Which is there still a lot long way to go. First of all their release was not the official results of the trial. It was sort of science by press release which we don't really like. It was sort of the had some early good results. But you know we we. We have a scientific trial for reasoning to actually get the final results. The second thing is this is vaccine that needs to be given to people twice in store at minus eighty celsius That is going to be an enormous challenge. So it's good news. I think in terms of saying this method allergy. This approach might be fruitful. I don't think it solves the problem. Well i have a ton of questions about this so let me start. The beginning of this ninety percent effective thing my understanding was the threshold that had been established for Emergency use use use authorization. Approval was fifty percent so obviously this is if it holds up astronomically higher. I don't even know if this is a reasonable question. Why is it so high so much higher than the experts expected. Well i mean basically. It's this it's the you know as we talked with my book jumpstarting america. It's all about the wonders of technology and we have a new technology here for delivering For delivering other axiom which is act. And i'm not. I don't it well enough. But it's effectively targeting the actual spike protein itself which is a new approach to To to trying to your illness as opposed to attritional vaccine where you know they just invective a bit with a bit of the illness and hope and hope you build the immunity. This is actually directly targeting. The illness and that seems to be more. So i am biologist. So let me continue with my line of questioning. I can for a second one of the other reasons. I assume for optimism is this m rna. Thing that you describe which. I don't understand at all but i know the term. That's the same technology from what i understand. That moderna down the street from you and me is is using which i assume bodes well for the success of their vaccine as well. Is that a fair statement. That's right it does bode. Well i i think in general the reasonably optimistic is because it's a new technology. Think of it as generations of iphones. Okay so what pfizer's done is the first generation which is amazing. You have this incredible phone. But it's clunky inexpensive in this with pfizer. It's you have to get it twice. As eight degrees here comes madonna while majority twice but only stores at minus twenty degrees a lot easier soon. There's other ones out there. You only have to get the vaccine once. So i think we're just on this rapid technology frontier. Where before too long we will have a vaccines that are easily transportable. The only after take once and we can get people vaccinated. Now we still have the distribution issue which is how the hell do you get three inch fifty million people the vaccines in the us not to mention the billions of people in the world and we have to remember that this is not. This is not like You know the vaccine's you get when you're a kid this like the flu shot. You gotta get it every year okay. This is not a one and done this every year. So so it's not like we make three hundred fifty million doses and we're done we third fifty million a year or seven hundred million if you have to give it twice and so we are far from done but to think that we didn't even have axiom uses technology six months ago and we've already got one that show good results. It's just incredible how fast the sciences moved. Okay so i have one more question before we get to whatever else it is that you're optimistic about this delivery thing. I i think i read not minus ninety four. I don't know the difference between fahrenheit and senate celsius it's minus one hundred and something fahrenheit. Whatever it is. I get all my shots at walgreens down the block from me. And how is it possible that maybe it's not possible. I guess how can a walgreens the generic walgreens your neighborhood pharmacy where i assume. Most people getting their shots these days. How can they do it when this refrigeration demand is as out of the ordinary as it is well. I mean that's why. I think ultimately you know i don't mean bad news for all the people who've made money in their pfizer stock. It seems to me in the end. This is not the winning technology Because ultimately cities are talking about setting giant football fields filled with these refrigeration units. And you. you wouldn't go to walgreens you go to the football field but ultimately i think this is moving so fast that the that soon walgreens will be able to have it i i just. I'm pretty giving fastest is moving. I i just think ultimately will get at walgreens but it may be initially have to go down to Patriot place in and get your shot. So so why are you. You are a little hesitant here. John about it being the ultimate answer. I attacked here. So here's limited. When i'm out through thick and there's one simple reason simple fact which is if you look at hong kong. After a couple of months. The coronavirus eat people had died. Hong kong is bigger than new york crowded than new york. What was the difference. People were math and they obey the rules and they had the point is just having. Joe biden office is going to make such an enormous difference because if we can just see if we get what the. There's many people who are still going to anti mask but there's many more who are now going to start wearing masks and i'm just optimistic that with good federal leadership. We can make an enormous difference. I think people just don't understand how much our death toll was a choice okay. Are death poll was a choice. A conscious choice made by the trump administration to not lead and to not have people do the simple things that can make a difference. Joe biden coming in and just chain. That message is going to make an enormous difference. And i just feel really optimistic. That behavioral the behavioral changes. That will start to see will really matter. You know speaking of biden. Though one of the things he's called for the national mass mandate. And i know you're not only not a biologist. You're not a lawyer but there seems to be some question about whether or not he can mandate your your concern. Federal your your point of view. I'm assuming is because there's going to be more uniformity coming from the federal government at least in terms of messaging and he apparently is reaching out to governors already or is about to reach out to governors republicans and democrats to be based on the circumstances and their state pitch uniformity. Is that while you're optimistic. Even if his power is somewhat limited. Yeah i'm not looking. There won't be a national mask. Mandate in the sense that there's a law by the federal government. So where math. That's not going to happen. What he means by that. he's gonna courage governors. Let's think about the governor so right now. The governor's were always stuck on the one hand. The governor's do wanna do the right thing. They believe in science by and large the right thing on the other hand they were elected by bunch of trump voters who you know who trump could rally if they if they said were mass. Trump got upset. We'll trump lose power after he leaves office or is how greatly mitigated. So the governor's can finally say okay. Well now we'll do the right thing. And let's wear masks and so i just think it you know having the person at the top being behind the simple actions we can take to control. This virus is going to make an enormous amount of difference. And i think it's not going to solve it or still gonna unfortunately lots of case in lots of deaths and unfortunately this isn't going to happen. You know till mid january. So i'm not optimistic couple months i just think twenty twenty one is gonna look much better than it might have looked if donald trump in one. I mean i'm into question your political. Now's your john gruber but already seeing you know I don't know how many people that voted for the president still not believing he lost the election and out-rallying without their masks etc. Right next to each other. Why would you think that they would all the sudden where mass because it would be loyal to the guy that they're entrenched with you. You know you're absolutely seeing that but if you add up everyone you're seeing all those rallies. Okay it's less than a million. You know it's not a million people right now. We have tens of millions of people who aren't wearing masks nakas their rallying for donald trump's because like aunt doesn't matter. I'm not gonna do it my telling me to do it. Those are the people whose behavior we can change with leadership from the federal and state government. Yes we're not going to change the people you see those rallies but they are a small minority of the popular. Small minority of the non mask wearing population. A lava non wearing masks seem to just doesn't think it's a big deal and and good leadership can make a difference. There probably speaking of good leadership. I read that one of the things that i haven't heard him say it. But the joe biden is promising is a us public health core. What is this what exactly is. What's the goal here. What's the what are these people. I hear they're talking about is many as one hundred thousand people at these contact tracers. What are they these are. So it's so the idea would be to essentially. We are understaffed in america. In the way we deal public health we have a lot of people working in healthcare. Once you get sick we're happy to take care of you. We don't have a lot of people trying to prevent you from getting sick and by and that's even a normal time so the idea would be bring a bunch of people on who in this crisis could be contact tracers and other things but even the crisis over we could hopefully have more robust professional public health infrastructure to help prevent people from being sick rodney stealing once they do get sick. Did you deal when you were a helping. The crafting of the affordable care act. Did you work with biden or and his people are or did you have any contact with him in them. No i did not do. We're talking to john gruber from mit. So let's talk a little bit more about biden and testing. Because you know everyone's complaining. I mean we talk about this all the time that if they can get tests the test or awhile money hundred and fifty hundred sixty bucks wherever they are. That's still something. He's got to get money for with a divided. Congress john gruber. This is the other reason. I i'm optimistic is because the other big you know. Everybody's focusing a vaccine. It's because we all want an answer but the point is while the vaccines the open answer. There's lots of steps we can take along. The way and optimistic is because i see the by administration taking those steps one step says more mask. Wearing another step is pushing for the frontier on testing. So right now. Tests are expensive but they don't have to be. We are making innovations all the time in for example pooled testing see idea the pool tests. Is that when you when you dab your nose or spit into a tube. It goes to a lab. Those the real expensive cost and running a test is what happened once it gets to the lab. What you can do is you can pull eat or ten or twenty samples and running on that whole group and if none of them have it then you can do it at one tenth or one. Twenty the cost now. One of them has that you gotta pull it out and do the individual samples but given the low incidence of the disease by and large those groups. Will you'll find no disease in the pool groups so i these pulled testing. We can get the cost down to a fraction of what they are today once again if we have innovation the space in leadership to try to push forward imagine a world which is not that far away where basically every day or every couple of days you can easily and conveniently spit in a tube or strip of paper and no within within the day whether there's there's coronavirus in your in your community and we can have schools running fulltime etc at testing is five or seven dollars a day. We can bring the economy back. And i i think biden moves in that direction as well. John gruber john. There's only so much optimism we can take on the show. In one day so broach another topic with you as a again as a aca architect of the democrats were projecting that once the spring court got to have a hearing on the fate of the affordable. Care act with the ascension of amy county barrett and six three conservative majority. Even if justice roberts tried to do what he's done in the past he would still be in a minority with the other liberals in the was About to be. I p most court observers said yesterday that pretty emphatically because i think most quarter observers usually cautious about what is said norlogbat and how significant is in terms of the ultimate outcome but virtually everybody read said. The statements the questioning from chief. Justice roberts and associate justice cavanaugh. Were such that. They believe that neither of them was about Side with the other conservatives for potential Ending of the affordable care act. You share that optimism. As well. I do i do because look you know. They can always vote the way they wanna vote. But of course at this point kavanagh given that he essentially ask questions about jeep. Does this case. This case doesn't seem to make sense to me and the answers were not were like he got no answer to that. He's pretty much box where he has to. At this point you know turned down the kit. Turn down the case. I'm these basically said you know. Remember this case right now. The key issue of several ability which is if the individual mandate goes away. You have to drink the whole law and cavenaugh said. I don't see why you have to. And there was no answer and so i don't know how at this point having done that in public he can possibly vote to strike down the whole. Aca now there may be pieces beyond the mandate that they get that get attacked. I don't know where it's gonna end up Probably the mandate will go away But i think people are feeling pretty good after those hearings went as well as they possibly could have We don't want any conybeare. It is but she was pretty silent. and but you know you don't need her it seems like with robertson cavanaugh You have the via votes. You need to get rid of this nuisance lawsuit. Jonathan gruber just one thing from before you go. I do i. I may have missed this. And if i did i apologize. Having a technical problem What's the timetable. If we get this vaccine the pfizer vaccine. Where are we in terms of returning to semblance of normalcy here I mean unfortunately. I don't see how we get to normalcy. Before the end of the year before the before the end of next year it seems to me hard to imagine even if pfizer comes through even if the news is good it's going to be super hard to get people vaccinated with this with this with this approach. I think really the best. The best possibilities is a future approaches. That involve fewer shots and easier storage. Those are still coming. Then you've gotta get them approved and then you've got to get everybody. I my guess. Is we start to vaccinate people in the in in the spring and we get to the point where we can feel safe you know before the end of the year. But it's christmas of twenty twenty. One i i would be. I'm very very hopeful. That art caplan joins us see if we can get a better answer to that one so john gruber before you walk away off this vaccine discussion. We're going to ask our listeners. About which side they're on. The numbers are still pretty pathetic. In terms of those who say they'll get an a a vaccine once it's available are do you subscribe to the notion that the hesitancy again between besides the traditional antibac- sers the hesitancy is more tied trump than it is than anything else in once he disappears assuming he does at some point the hesitancy disappears along with him. Remember you don't need the hesitancy to go away totally. You don't need everyone to get back to you. Just need a large share the large majority get vaccinated and and i think they will Certainly with this kind of news about how effective it is the fda's been really showing good spine and standing up to the political types To trump administration terms of brushing things. I think you're going to be in pretty good shape. People are gonna get it It's it's going to be a long. It's going to be a long process it because these these these isn't just going to be go down to walgreens and get it at least at first but enough people are gonna get it. We're gonna get to the point where we're safe to go out and about by the ended. Here's my prediction. Well then it coming out of that. Once there is the transition to to biden another piece of his message. I assume there will get people on board hopefully as to return to your optimism about mass and that sort of thing. A minute ago is part of his message us to be. There's not a dichotomy between locked down the economy. I mean he has to convince people the sooner we get rid of the virus. The sooner the economy is able to open up as fully as most people need correct. I mean that connection. I'm not a political messing. Act messaging expert. But i don't why biden doesn't just say over and over again there is no trade-off between economy saving lives the more lives. You saved the better. The economy is the the worst you would find this virus. You get more deaths and worse economy. There's no this idea that there's some tradeoff is just wrong. At this point there are solutions. Which can both save lives and get the economy back. Which is wearing masks. doing testing. there are before we get the vaccine. There's lots of steps we can take up domestic we've now elected a president will lead us and taking them. John gruber thank you. Thank you very much. You bet my pleasure. Jonathan gruber joins us regularly before professor of economics. Mit was instrumental in creating both the massachusetts healthcare reform and the affordable care. Act his latest book. Starting america how breakthrough science can revive economic growth in the american dream vice again john coming up. We're opening the lies asking you. If you're feeling confident in this in this vaccine confident enough to take it. He prudan eighty nine seven. Gbh boston public radio. Boston public radio. Marge regan jim brady just tinian. We were talking mit economist. Jonathan gruber about weiss feeling more hopeful about beating corona virus with news of vaccine and joe biden is president. Elect opening the lines. And ask you if you share his optimism biden campaign trusting science fiction biden pandemic plan in place task force assembled to act on day one. That's assuming trump. Lets them into the white house. In september kamala harris said she would not trust the vaccine anointed by trump. But under the latest circumstances she might be among the americans who are likely to get a kobe. Nineteen vaccine according to new stat in harris poll. Six in ten americans said they would likely get vaccinated if it could lower the risk of being infected by about half. We want to know if that includes you. And if doesn't include you if you're still amongst those were hesitant at least hesitant about taking a vaccine once it's available we would like to know why the numbers eight seven seven. Three zero one eighty nine seventy. I can't remember we discussed this last few weeks ago. Were you ready to take one not ready to take one wherever you on this exactly. Well you know. Obviously since president has a problem china the truth. I was not ready to take vaccine. That i thought was was rushed through by him to win the election. So but i'm a big vaccinators. I mean vaccine all my kids. I just got my flu shot this year. I mean i'm much more confident with pfizer. Which has been around forever. Which of the allstate became famous for creating viagra. Jim which has changed america. I'm not for the better or not better. Berlin cases changed. America advisors a very reputable company. I don't think they want to put their reputation on. Live the line we. They've not really been a up to their it. With the trump administration any way in terms of operation warp speed. And i think Yeah i mean. I'm i've i've done one eighty. It wasn't the the. I'm not necessarily fan of the pharmaceutical industry this assay because how they rip people off but i mean i. They're pretty good about making vaccines and i've done away. How about you. well. I wanted to change the question for listeners to questions at one. Where are you taking the vaccine when it's available but the second question which actually is much more important. Why every single time i mentioned pfizer does marjorie immediately mentioned biogra- steve put. That's what is on the map. Who's me my asking the question we could ask. Why you avoiding issue. Why do i keep bringing up. I to go further jim. Seven seven three zero one. Eight hundred nine seven i have to say. I'm not feeling quite as optimistic as john. Gruber appears to be. But i am feeling better and the stories. If you read the stories. I think the most significant reason for optimism is if you read the stories on stat on the new york times in the last twenty four hours which i assume a lot of you have about this Vaccine breakthrough this hope for vaccine breakthrough. The reason for excitement is not just. Because there's a breakthrough not just because there's a ninety percent effective rate. Anthony fauci practically exploded with apt optimism. The final adjudicator of all issues relating to public health. We hope in this country. But that it bodes well according to scientists and epidemiologists whom i respect for other vaccines and i think there are total of eleven. I think that are being worked on. And particularly those that use the same technology like moderna so the bottom line is i was ready to take it because i can't handle this anymore regardless john gruber is going to be another year. Oh god by the way i think. He's i respect. John's knowledge a lot. I think he's the minority a we will ask our kaplan about it later stuff. I read end a year for Central workers essential healthcare workers. And those people maybe. Some older people vulnerable people in nursing homes and then spring at least the articles. I read this morning. There suggests not that. Stop wearing masks. And all the other protocols go away but that vaccination of the bulk of the population. I think most are projecting earlier than john in any case. Eight seven seven three zero one eighty nine seventy and i as as i mentioned nonstop There was a great deal. Consternation in the anti-abortion crowd about vaccines that use fetal cells. This one doesn't so there's not a reason for people to sell. I can't possibly take this vaccine. Diane fairhaven thank you for calling laura. Thank you for taking my call. Real quick first off. I want to college is the last time we spoke. I was obviously personally very upset angry. Anyway all active. We have no idea what you said. You don't follow the guy fresh diane. This is another giant from fairhaven. That was my evil twin. This moment right. I am cautiously optimistic. I will be willing to take in the spring. My husband on the other hand is a surgical nurse. You know a supervisor and he does surgeries with doctors. And i'm pretty sure he's going to be one of the ones taking it sooner than. Yeah all our people. So i tried them. He's the guinea pig in our family. So we i said make sure that maximum life insurance on you. Take it a little advice since you've apologized us and that's done. You should go hang up and go apologize husband. How about that as a land. Thank you woman jim. You know if the worst happened. She wants to be prepared. That's what's making me nervous about this. That somebody who actually believes in science is going to be running the country. Eventually the group put together seems great. Well of course. The trump group was pretty good until he ruined it. I should say until burks lost their marbles and became a another sick event of the president. Dr burks things disturbing to me the other night on the sixty minutes thing fewer than half of the nurses surveyed in new jersey fewer than half of the nurses said they would the vaccine. We have to get some calls from nurses. Because i remember when i was still at the boston herald which is right next to the medical center down to get my lunch. Going remember is going the lineup of nurses outside smoking. I thought wow. Wow what do i make it this now. Heaven knows this is like more than six or seven years ago but but you know I don't know maybe point. Well maybe nurses see things that we don't you know you worked as a waiter. I worked as a waitress. I mean i saw things. I think the dining public did were not aware of going on in the back room. So maybe that's part of the part of their skepticism. I dunno david. Thank you for calling. So here's my question. Can i go Vaccine shopping in other words if pfizer comes out in like three weeks later moderna comes out and then later on the oxford one comes out. Do i wait and see which one is better. You think they'll be ratings of these. And by the way. Can i take all three of them are actually i can answer that. One that i think is a joke. The answer is i was kidding before the answer is no. That's one two. This is actually really so. I don't know the answer your -ssume that they'll be a different Systems will offer different of vaccines and depending on what system. You're connected to where you go. I guess is the answer. But i'm not sure david it's good question but i can tell you one thing it's really important that worries a lot of people in terms of the orderliness of the distribution of this your second shot which i think all but one vaccine manufacturing in the united states require has to be of the exact same vaccine meaning. They can't mix mix up so not only do they. Deliver need to deliver of millions of these twice. If you get the the pfizer vaccine first then you get to get the pfizer vaccine. Second time three weeks later. You can't go pfizer one week and when they run out you have you can. Well let me take them a journal. You gotta take the same route. I do know. I mean when i've gone from my flu shots or when my kids were little and they got the measles mumps rubella there i had no idea who's making those vaccines do research before i do. I spend still neuro exam for run to walgreens thinks that because the pfizer thing has this refrigeration issue where it's going to be ninety degrees fahrenheit or something. I suspect up for low zero side anyway. Another vaccine manufacturing maserpass. It does not have those requirements. I would think so. No but the fires. I out of the box. They are so in case by the way they answer to dave's question will come tomorrow between twelve on. Dr catherine gergen barnett is joining us again. And she'll answer all things related including that was a great question whether lingo vaccine shopping isaac can met for. Thank you for calling. Hello isaac how you doing today. I am very excited about a vaccine. I i've been holding on for quite a long time for a vaccine. Because i'm a front line medical worker nursing and i was there as march when the spread. I mean it was just horrible horrible. So you know if i can avoid that again. We can. that's neat people. I am all well. You know Isaac the extra piece of good news for someone who does is wonderful thing as you do. Working in a nursing home is every single person. We've asked about who will be at the top of the priority list for distribution after they talk about healthcare workers they talk about people in nursing homes because we know what a horribly high percentage of the deaths were in senior care facilities both here and around the country so I'm really glad doing your work and And we wish you luck and we hope you get it soon. Thanks for the call. By the way i made a mistake. Dr gergen burnett won't be tomorrow. She'll be a week from tomorrow. But i promise you we will are cracks. Steph will find out maybe by the end of the show. The answer to dave's question about whether or not you can You can do vaccine shopping. Once they're available obviously none available yet. We're getting some people who will not do it Paul says he doesn't trust the safety. He says the only thing he does trust drug companies business of making money apparently had a bad experience with his dog in a vaccine and he talks about the things you find out later that baby parrots vaccine but the baby fathers linked to cancer and Zantac has been around for decades. And there's issues there round up we find out is very very bad and can kill people and give you cancer and stuff. And here's another one from gabriel. Who says he will not be taking a vaccine. We wouldn't need a vaccine. If everyone would just wear masks. Lots of money is being wasted on. Vaccines have a mask mandate For months few months all and we'll save the money who's going. What was the last one guy. That said that real. Gabriel a my response to that is if we had done the right thing in the beginning maybe mass alone would have gotten us to where we wanted to go allah a new zealand or something like that when you have ten million cases Two hundred and forty thousand people dead and projections that that number could as much as double in the next few months Everybody wearing a mask would reduce the carnage. It would not eliminate it. So i'm not telling you what to do. I'm telling. I think you're wrong about how Universal mask wearing alone would solve the problem. We neither vaccine get an email from Deepak appoint from points out that visor. Ceo five point six million in stock. axios reporting it But but maybe just maybe he was a little short cash. I want cash of the dead. Their stocks going up. I don't know what that means stephen. Burlington you're next on boston. Public radio thank you much colon high. I asked hey. I'm not sure if i'd take it but the reason call 'cause they just wanna let you guys know. I'm extremely disappointed in my injury. I don't wanna call you a hypocrite march but if the president had one as opposed to the president-elect you'd be saying that you would not even think about taking like you haven't been like for the past couple of weeks so i mean was it hypocritical. Why is it because actually she was saying there was no way should take it because she didn't trust the president and implement that it. Well i guess. Steve is true. Because i don't i don't trust the president so if i if if he won the election i mean i'd have to really think about it if i was convinced that pfizer is i turns out was quite independent. Didn't take money from operation warp speed to other people approved it. Dr fauci said i would just have to do a lot more investigation because I you know. I don't believe this guy i mean i think with good reason makes no sense though i mean it's he he's he's the one that brought it and made it available soon so i just i don't understand your thinking it's because there's no there's a your have half right about five while the pfizer. Ceo is gone out of. I think it's her way. I think it's a woman to say correctly that there is no money. From the federal government terms of development. There was a ton of from the federal government that Pfizer will get when they deliver x million vaccines. Obviously that was an incentive to do it. So i think actually the federal government does deserve a little Credit here but i have to say when you have respectfully steve when you have a president who lies about. Virtually everything when his mouth is open. I understand the hesitancy. And i think. I'll tell you speaking for myself whenever marjorie said when she said my attitude was until someone like fao. She signs off on any vaccine. I'm a skeptic to but steve. Thank you very much for your call galahad like jim thank you very much right into my rescue. There wasn't you're perfectly able to rescue your Your self. But i i. I think it is fair to say that of a while I say this almost everyday barred this from the great. Carl burns thing. I think that donald trump's of vaccine be apartment corona virus behavior was seidel responsible his actions and inactions for the death of tens of thousands of people in this country having said that he invested big time in the vaccines and i think we if it turns out they all materialize in. They're all effective effective that he deserves credit. The problem is we shouldn't have had that many dead. And damn the way we are. We are the worst in the world. We absolutely the worst in the world. That's because of his policies but it is kind of a weird thing that while he kind of may be treated. Coronavirus was no. Bdo we have people in the white house. I mean it's kind infested in the white house at this point that they did rush through the money for this warp speed which enabled these vaccines to come faster to. The jump has called the copy before steed come really fast. Nobody expected this as fast. But as odd. Isn't it no. There's never ever been this fast. I thought it going to be two or three maybe four years. So it's a weird thing with him but weird. I don't before the break. I want to return tomorrow Praising me for being galahad like i would really come to rescue is just supported what she said. Maybe lancelot just say in return a number of years ago before we had our lustrous radio career marjorie on another radio show is death and the host are member like it was yesterday. Said we'd just start working together and the hosts said I really don't understand how you can even be in the same studio with someone like jim brown. This is verbatim and marjorie pause for a longtime ready for her to slap the guy down verbally of course and after a long pause. She says well actually. He's not that bad so that eighteen sixty talking about fifty years ago. But i can't bring up improve your galahad okay. We're gonna keep talking about this for a little while. Mongering listened to eighty nine seven. Gbh boston public radio. Are you ready to take a vaccine. Welcome back to boston. Public radio jim brady marjorie in the wake of the pfizer announcement of a day or two ago about this ninety percent effective vaccine released. So they say we're asking you if you're feeling confident about it about the prospect getting the pandemic under control ultimately with president elect joe biden prioritizing response and specifically once these vaccines are available and they will become available under a president-elect biden trump supporters. Let me be clear again. They've moved this quickly under. Donald trump is no denying that but they'll become more readily and widely available. Hopefully under biden. Are you more likely to take a vaccine. The vaccine when it's available then you were earlier on the numbers for the most part. The best numbers. I've seen her in the fifty percent range which is not acceptable. It's not enough to protect us. All we just got an email from susan who says she's been in the pfizer trial. She had no reservations about safety. She said she's elderly sixty nine years old and may have gotten the placebo but based on my reaction probably not it will be too must pass my second injection with no complications. I'm interested susan if you could email back and tell us what the reaction was assuming you have some kind of reaction to the vaccine but like your or not. She may not have gotten the vaccine. She may not have gotten a vaccine but she does point out that well. I think what she's saying is based on her reaction to the vaccine. It probably was not placebo. Time get a vaccine. You get a flu vaccine. Or i just brickley with the shingles vaccine where people feel crummy for like a day. They feel kind of achey and flu. Like and And some people get reactions. They always tell you when you take your babies to get the measles mumps rubella to watch for any kind of swelling so mile fevers will sometimes get but yeah so the point is i think she sang she got she thinks she got the actual vaccine because she got some kind of reaction but she's been two months past her second inject you up trial of well you could've did you even consider signing up for part of a trial. I love medical charleston. I'm always signing up for medicine. Why didn't you know. I didn't know you could volunteer volunteer volunteer. I love medical trashing. It could all this free healthcare and they pay you when you're in college. I did that all the time. I signed up for everything i got every test i can. I'm sure somewhere potentially deadly but you got fifty bucks. Yeah up terrific over. Yeah and so you get some great drugs. Jim you i mean do michael guys i would take the vaccine in a heart heartbeat and But i wanted to offer to Two things in one is. I'm a biotechnology instructor and i wanted to offer a quick demonstration or a primer on 'em are in and then i'll tell you about a book fleas so so m irony is literally the recipe for making proteins okay. It's it's a close cousin. The dna and it is the recipe. So what the messenger. Rene is actually from the virus and it tricks the cell into making part of the virus and then your immune system reacts to Reacted to the part of the virus. Part of the virus has actually though spike proteins. Seattle as though they're always picks you read So it's a. It's an amazing clever and elegant. Eloquent solution you know. We used to inject whole-virus chemically activated. Some sometimes even live viruses. And so it's a very very clever Solution michael. That was an incredibly understandable explanation. That was really well. Thank you quite impressive. What's your point. Thank i used to be in industry. Well so There's a book Called the panic virus. And it's written by seth manoukian and he is a former. He's the former chair of the mit science writing depart. And it is an incredibly informative book he cites you know like over two hundred sources And it's really enlightening and it's not all that long and it's a great great resource. Let me tell you michael. I can speak from artery any book. That has the word panic and she has already michael when you said the panic virus. What's he talking about. He's talking about the panic With vaccines the can spread especially in in In surrounding the mr of vaccine and autism. But i i gave your Your your credentials or use phone screener. The name of that book so he's written it all down. Thank you very much. By the way i got an email from sarah who say with all due respect to president trump and warp speed. The only reasoning courtesy was the see if you can get a vaccine before the election. I don't think he did it because he cared about people. I wasn't saying he did sarah. I totally agree with you. I'm just saying whatever is motivation. Which i don't really care that much about He did encourage speed and we are going to end up. It looks like vaccines as margin. I just discuss faster than ever in our history. And so but i think your analysis as those motivation is probably accurate. Well you know what you wanted to whether we just did not have the capabilities and remember when there was the polio panic in the late forties and early fifties when so many people Came down with polio. If it was and i believe it took a lot longer to get the vaccine for polio. And there were a couple of bad batches a vaccine for polio too. But if it was that we we weren't medic. I assume is pharmacologically sophisticated. Well also a ton of money is being put into this and to say it's all hands on deck. I mean it's sort of been the laser like focus of virtually every pharmaceutical company and government. And you know what. I'm really happy about ours. Of course i decided to shovel mystic. As an american and though pfizer worked with this german company against german company they pfizer jumped on that. But i'm glad. I'm glad it's american company here. Did you read the story of the german couple at this. By the way is they basically when they realize what a crisis there is. They basically called again they put together a group of the day forty people and they say we can do a great story but then they need people right exactly so i guess you have to the germans a lot of credit okay. Chauvinist i am. I am proud of my country was catching sturbridge. Hi guys thanks for taking my call. So i am a registered nurse and am apple pro vaccine actually school nurse at this point in my career but I think for me. The bottom line is after listening to scientists. Like the last guy that called. And i think a lot of us in the medical field are gonna take our cues from from all the scientists like. I said half jokingly but not really the day that dr fauci says he's good to go and he vaccine. I think that'll be good enough for me me too by the way. That's who i'm waiting for to. Yeah yeah eye-catching good go ahead you good i have. I have a brother in law. Who's a harvard phd. Who happens to work for the nih. He and his wife both do and they're really scientists so we're super lucky that we get inside scoop from now and again you know. I don't trust anybody. More are the novel about the safety and efficacy of of things. We'll be looking for perfect. Yeah have you ever been out on a street corner. Smoking a cigarette near the boston herald. I'm okay. I'd when you said that marjorie. I actually have not. I am a lifelong nonsmoker. Awful lot of people in the hospital. That y- you cover my pieces for me. Yeah thank you. Thanks for what you're doing to nurses or the salvation of the world. Thank you for those people out there. That were hooked up to machines. I assume they weren't oxygen tanks because they blow themselves up you see people hooked up to machines. How about the women would greet the well. We shouldn't get into that actually today. Let's them and you're on the show. Welcome hi thank you. I'm on route nine across trader at this point but there's a line at trader. Joe's going right i. I am a prozac ser Interestingly enough i got my flu shot. And i'm over sixty five so i got the super shot and i had a huge reaction to it. I got it And i i guess. I feel the way i think jim just said in that. If if you put dr fauci tv. And i see him rolling up his sleeve. Then i will get this shot. I'm really nervous about how quickly this is all happening You know it's amazing thing and the nurse said the same thing and i said the same thing isn't it you know when this is finally over and we can look back on this and obviously never with any happiness because we've lost so many of our neighbors. Is it amazing. A guy that most of us had never heard of has become the most trusted human being maybe on the planet but at least in the united states of america i mean it's just it's amazing how he came in our life in march and and you and kathy and me and everybody listening i think is the same way only person that i can think of in that. In the trump orbit an administration who hasn't been co-opted. Can you think of another person mean in the science world the clearly not the science world the political world that the ambassador world whatever world He's an outland nagy. Thank you very much. Thank you. I would say i mean in fairness i'm trying to be fair to trump today the two people you'd abu. I think everybody listening would agree that you trust is one falcon into jared kushner. I think he's another one who really serve the american people you know. Let me tell you something. I tried before the election to stay because you are like in the tank. I tried to be as fair as i possibly could be the day. The jared kushner is no longer has clearance to enter. The white house will be a great day for the united states of america. Has there ever been a less qualified. Human being given more responsibility about death issues than jared kushner thorough zero training for any of them. Just think anybody's going to have a problem. If joe biden puts a biden in charge of nine hundred thousand projects that he was going to watch him. I mean it was unbelievable. What trump get away with. But he's he's gone now. I don't think he's chances. This thing's gonna gonna pan out. I think he's gone out. Other challenge his efforts to overturn the electric juliette and five minutes. What she thinks I hope he can't anyway Coming up indeed. Is our national security expert. Juliet with turbo charged. Misinformation campaign about a region. Stolen election is the trump administration undermining democracy. We're gonna ask her about that. A lot more juliette kind of next eighty nine seven. Gbh boston public radio. I had on boston public radio after launching. Multiple failed efforts. Douse democratic congressman. Seth moulton now says he supports her us just a few minutes to discuss that whether he's alarmed by donald trump's pentagon moves and his unique veterans. Day event congressman. Seth moulton once he takes over. President elect joe biden will inherit the raging pandemic raging across much of the country also inherit an unstable economy his data plans or fold but the government remains divided as does united states medical ethicist. Arthur caplan joins the discuss what biden can accomplish in the medical world and more ahead on boston. Radio eighty nine seven. Gp h Much can you listen to our number two of boston. Public radio eighty nine seven w hoops. Gbh i just want a check during the news break down. Trump's not conceded. In case you were wondering the goodness the associated press is reporting. That three states not yet cold. Joe biden is reached two hundred ninety electoral votes. That's twenty more than he needed to win. He also leads trump with five million more popular votes with the electoral math. Solidly and undeniably in biden's favors secretary of state. Mike pompeo assured the nation that there would be a peaceful transition of power. There will be a smooth transition to second trump administration. We're ready the world is watching. What's taking place exactly. The world is indeed watching was taking place and it looks like an attempt to undermine democracy to me join us online for her. Take on this and other national skirt. Headlines is juliette joy. An analyst for cnn former assistant secretary department of homeland security and faculty chair the homeland security program at harvard. University's kennedy school of government. Hello there juliet talk if you are yeah good. Thank you So the president is jim. Said has not conceded yet and there's a lot of misinformation floating around about voter fraud but even in the misinformation that's floating around a lot of it is not enough votes get anywhere near the difference connecticut. The new york times called every official in every state and find any evidence of voter fraud. And that was. They queried. both democrats and republicans. So where are we so we. Here's where we are and sort of struggled with to figure out sort of what might you know. Rage level should be in this regard to nothing unexpected In the sense of loses the trump is built a lifetime into this being his exit The numbers are not there for them. It is clear from really good reporting like what you just quoted in the new york times to statements by other republicans. This is the charade at the game but it's not just a for ego for for potentially You know protecting himself in a post presidency. But it's not without its damage. So i don't mean to minimize what's going on. It's you know the vice president elect a president-elect biden called an embarrassing. I think that's true. I think it's damaging because a certain amount of his followers do believe it. i think it's damaging to our election process but i my approach for this period. I can be helpful to anyone as i as i said. I don't mean to minimize the impact. This has and the embarrassing nature of it and the patheticness of the republican party which is in my mind now not redeemable. there's no republican party outside trump. they're willing to go along with it is it also feeds on oxygen. And so i think you know it's incumbent on People to also not not play his game anymore even playing for four years where he gets to set the tempo of what our emotional investment is in the future of america he lost. The future of america belongs to us and to bite and that is absolutely clear. None of these court challenges. Let's just be cleared her. They've lost thirteen thirteen. That's hard to do Amount to anything. The numbers are just not there And so this is to create a narrative a damaging meredith And we and we fight it as much as we can but we're not invested in it and more he's done. You know juliet. I agreed with you the day or two after the election. I don't agree with you anymore. And i'll tell you why is i was thinking a lot about how much we we and i am guilty as charged. So i'm not suggesting it's those other people in the media every tweet every this every press conference every whatever and i concluded so other than when he makes policy decisions we shouldn't cover this other stuff however is unlikely as it is as you say that any of these challenges amount to anything. The fact that he is delaying in challenging is having an impact on our country. It is ensuring that we don't deal with the krona virus and the joe biden can't get up to speed as fast as he should about. What's actually going on within the car about the coronavirus in the country The president is not sharing. You know a thousand times more about this. And i do the presidential daily intelligence briefing. I'd like to know that the next and that the tradition is to do that. Some of your former colleagues heads of homeland security say the impact of delay alone on our national security is negative. So i understand your concern about covering the the content of what he's doing which is purely a trumpian play but the impact is potentially really negative. Yes no it is not an and that's why you know. I probably sound flat these days. Because i like forcing myself to sound flat just not without consequences without it. Potential damage there. Unfortunately there's not much to do on as you know. I think the biden campaign munster the the transition and once threatened a lawsuit against the gsa gsa is the office that triggers a formal. They would set back from that. Bad may be and You know the way the washington that they're hearing from republicans that this will you know the the baby him for another few days and this too shall pass. But i do think. I'm gonna take the cues from the person most impacted by this which is of course the biden. His team That that the access to the presidential daily brief is probably somewhat unnecessary at the station. Sleep because there's not much you can do on cold. I'll tell you for sure The team that he has put together in terms of this task force. has access to public information and other information. That you know biden doesn't need any anymore intel to tell him that things are going to be really bad when he inherited and has already sort of come up with a plan. I think the big issue is between. What can we do about covid between now and january twentieth. And it's just gonna be you know one president. You know at arlington cemetery today without a mask and another president to be you pushing. I don't i i am with you. I do not not meet i. You know my flatness right now. Maybe exhaustion it is. It is the flatness of someone who knows how this ends with the new president and also Knows that there's that this was this was going to the period in which the levers were the most difficult for biden in some ways because he has to act presidential And and the republicans for the sole purpose of getting the georgia senate seats are behaving like dictators. I mean it is. It's just there's no other way to do it. So i'm with you but i i also I you know. I've lost of you. Know i guess. I guess you could say. I'm pacing the rage for a few more months. You know. I think that's right so chewed on. What did you make. Jim play the top of the hour about the top. Your introduction of the secretary of state. And what does that mean around the world exist. It's hurt around the world. The one guy. So i'm looking for good news here so look look at who is called the vice president like they don't give a darn what pompeo compel is now an acting acting elaine's secretary of state. He has put his entire weight. His west point degrees The weight of his you know he's a veteran a school his put his entire resume behind someone who laut so we have to remember with some pay as true true trump. There is nothing left. So they're gonna be as outrageous and once again the oxygen aspects of this they want our oxygen so so so he says that it's damaging. I'm in the sense that you know our hypocrisy Undermining democracy. But what i do is i look at okay. Well how is the world actually hearing that. So what i see is markle and And mccown on. And and boris johnson. My god you know bore you know the A tube rudeness you know. That's how trump has got me thinking. Canada saudi arabia israel. I mean you know the world whatever. Trump thinks the world thought of him. Here's a man who built his foreign policy around sort of transactional relationships right though. He thought he had these relationships with johnson and saudi arabia and And And and be You know what these countries are looking at their national interests in realizing we better start making nice with the next president of the united states. So i've once again this is you know this is damaging because they they will burn this place on their way out. We've long thought that the tools to counter them limited because there's no election when you know th know And trump is going for broke because he really think about his post-presidency life and on pao's and and but but i will look as embarrassing and damaging the books now but they'll be out of power you know the pompeo thing you know some people were suggesting he was joking and as i said less on television. I don't find jokes about a coup. Frankly that particularly funny a one of the reasons why. The pompeo thing upset me more than others. And i am trying to like you unsuccessfully in my in my case you know when someone who is totally lost his marbles like rudy giuliani. Does that that absurd thing at the four seasons landscaping company with a convicted sex offender. You know giuliani's probably ended up in jail. I mean the guy's totally lost it. This guy is other than the president of the united states pump. Peyot is the face of the united states to the world and until january twentieth and comment like that to me again. If it was an attempted humor is so flip and so unfunny and if it is serious. And i have to say i are on the side of he believes that or leasings willing to say it because his boss wants to say denies really scare what he said. He was not joking on news. I know after hours after somebody made that point. It is really scary. That the guy who conducts our relations with other countries is talking about a guy in a democracy who is clearly lost being the winner of an election. I know yeah now. I know it is. I mean i think part of it was. I suspected that this was going to be the case. And so part of it was like you know you understand this. So i wanna if i could go back a little bit and just do some good news compared to when we talk lose when it was unclear last night so monitoring as the dogs barking. Right okay so first of all you have a world that is moving forward. I mean imagine you know in other words to boris johnson. I just saw a quote. Here's what boris johnson says. His call with biden was a return to the kind of business. We're used to doing together. Okay i'm the rallies that were called for on saturday by trump and his team and this is also why i believe That trump cancelled his scheduled rally that he was going to have on monday night Or tuesday night. Were you know the biggest one i saw. Because i was monitoring for cnn was one hundred and fifty two hundred in fact. It was hilarious. Because i kept calling cnn. I didn't want to go on. Because i because you. You know these are you. Trump supporters have first amendment rights too. But it wasn't a aground while you're not seeing you. There's been to Violent cases that you're not seeing the kind of You're not seeing the ground swell. That i think the trump campaign with anticipating the most recent polling or the one pool that about about a biden and trump in this election stuff shows over eighty percent of all americans including over fifty percent of republicans believe brought biden with the legitimate lear. They're running out of runway and they're losing all these court cases there the numbers were just too good for the doing in the sense of i anticipate what my worst case scenario. I'm so far away from it. At this stage there was not massive unrest. It wasn't close. He's not winning. Court cases. state legislatures are moving on. You're starting to get the state republican in these states. That are contested saying you're full of bs. So i do want people to understand like you're hearing the worst of it but but but if you actually thought about okay does he have the capacity. This is all horrible. And it's undermining The the dog that didn't by. Let's let's go back. I mean you know bar bar doesn't do anything over the week. He signed some stupid order about. They're able to investigate elections but when you actually read. It is the standard so high. It doesn't actually change anything. I haven't seen the secretary of homeland security in about two months. So i'm looking at this from you. Know from a we have an enemy. There's a there's an enemy in some ways in the white house and what what. What is the apparatus barking and his favor and the answer is no so i do i that so when you say how am i calm. Part of it is is the scenario that could've laid out over. The last couple of weeks didn't materialize and that's where i think that what i think. The trump people are seeing their seeing. This and this is the behavior that that you know. Don't justify pompeo But it's actually you know. Why pump hails. Same thing you know. That was comforting by the. We've had a couple of comforting messages today. There a rare show coming. But can i return something how that. I had married trump on tv with me tonight. And i was really impressed by. I should've asked her this question since she's a clinical psychologist. But neither of you are but let me ask you both aberdeen. Broaches with you marjorie. Don't we all know that there is nothing. Donald trump hates more than losing. We know famous line from his father. Fred trump two kinds of people killers or winners and losers as only one winter. Everybody else's a loser. This strategy that donald trump is pursuing Guarantees virtually guarantees that he not just lose the election but he loses the election twice. He is assured his people that the courts are going to settle this case. The likelihood is extraordinarily good. I think based on what you say. Juliet and other legal experts say that he's gonna lose these legal challenges so he has to be humiliated And that's how he would say it. I believe a second time. So why are they pursuing a strategy that not one sane. Informed person thinks says any chance of success martyr. You take it first then juliet. There is the theory that he's making money off this that he's asking for donations to his elect. The president or stadium with on whatever pays down campaign debt uses it for his other future political endeavors. There's a wide latitude there or you can do with that kind of money. But it's a business proposition business proposition. But it's just a way for him to make some money when she's also very interested in doing And and again our maybe. It's just i guess what his niece would say is that you just keep lying and lying and lying and hoped eventually wins but you can take take a shot at it juliet so i think that's right and i think i think that's not being a discuss enough is to the extent that he has campaigned that there was a story that i saw yesterday You know that that was clearly planted by trump. That he was about to you know pay his campaign and a couple million dollars and And then we're told they didn't need it because he's trying to blame everyone for his loss. I think i think the man has no money. And he's raising ways that we can be clear out that he's you know he's got someone who has you know what is it. Three hundred million. Four hundred billion over him. Four hundred million who's going to show their faith After you've got deutsche bank trying to leave itself his debt in ways that we don't know what that means. So i think part of this is just try at is money i think the other part is you know. I don't i'm not a doctor and you guys You know i'm very careful not to say you know what is psychology is but my understanding is people with his type of personality can could give it a name if you want. You know he needs to create a narrative that enough people around him you know his supporters. Believe that that that his confession will be with stolen from me. but But you know. I i have but not even a but it was stolen from me. it rather than that. He's lost And so that those. Those are the chew things i believe. I think marjorie is right on the money joyous before you go. I haven't spoken on the air in a bit. Are you interested in working for the new administration. You know i mean. I say publicly you know. I'm just so grateful that i can breathe again and and That's about it. What do you say privately. Obviously that's our answer that's juliet it's great to talk to you as always. Thanks so much for your time. Pretty interesting to clock now security expert to joins us every week. She's an analyst for cnn. A former assistant secretary department of homeland security and faculty chair the homeland security program at harvard. University's kennedy school of government coming up on veterans day. We're going to market with a look at what it will be like to have a president in office who doesn't think war heroes are losers carson. Seth moulton a veteran himself joins us for that conversation next on n. nine seventy b. h. boston public radio. Welcome back to boston public radio module regan. Jim brady and twenty eighteen. President trump cancelled a visit to the end. Marne american cemetery blaming rain last minute. Decision saying that the helicopter couldn't fly and at the secret service wouldn't drive there. Neither claim was true. The atlantic reported earlier this year. That trump actually cancelled the visit because he feared his hair would get to shovel in the rain and because he didn't see the importance of honoring american award dead. Saying why should. I go to that cemetery. Filled with losers in a separate conversation on the same trip trump referred to the more than eighteen. Hundred marines lost their lives at bellawood as suckers for getting killed in contrast during the first presidential debate. Joe biden who son bo served in iraq called american service members who died in the line of duty heroes. Join us live talk. About what a biden administration would mean for the military for veterans. And moore's congressman. Seth moulton tonight at seven along with author. Sebastian younger seth moulton will host will co host their annual veterans. Townhall meeting. virtually you can find livestream through congressman. Bolton's facebook page congressman. Congratulations on your reelection. And happy veterans day. Thank you very much. Thank you very much comfortable in for being with us so before we get to biden and the military we've learned that president trump is fire. That defense secretary esber Esperer is concerned about who may replace him being a yes man. He's also talked about possible. Firings at the cia gene the hassle on the fbi. Christopher ray is should we be concerned about this are you. Yes yes thanks marjorie. i. I am concerned. I think we all should be concerned because our national security is on the line and it cleared everybody that trump is much more concerned about his own image than our national security look civilian leadership in the military is fundamental and we have to get through this political transition period in our country with a civilian leadership insulating the military leaders from having to weigh in on partisan issues that we've already had an inkling trump will try to do it. Trump has involved the military in partisan issues in the past. He's going to try to do it again. This is also a time when our adversaries around the globe who recognized that. We might not be totally on the ball. But there's a transition going place that that that that that all of a sudden hundreds of people are going to leave the department offense. Hundreds of more of new people are gonna come in. This is a period of potential weakness. And it was actually cited by the nine eleven commission this presidential transition as one of the reasons why. The attackers were not caught lie. That intelligence was ignored so this is absolutely a dangerous period. Our national security and trump is making it worse. You know seth moulton. I generally Ridicule conspiracy thinkers. But i'm about to become one. And i'll run it by you One of the reasons that s for most Displeased a president trump was because he had the audacity to say that publicly. We're not going to send in the military to respond to first amendment protected protests That's one he now has a policy adviser who the senate wouldn't approve at the pentagon who says has said barack obama is a terrorist and As a muslim and he didn't mean it in a complementary way that former director brennan Was part of a plot to assassinate president trump own and on down the line. So here's the thesis. We have bark gallon on from the atlantic a couple of weeks ago. He's the one who was one of the first ones to write about. Could republican legislatures appoint different sectors than the people of their state voted for so. Let me run this scenario by you. Pennsylvania which is probably going to be one hundred thousand vote victory ultimately for joe biden The republican legislature says no the too much fraud. The electors should go to President trump and when there are demonstrations in the streets in response to that The new military under trump's sycophantic Leaders will Go in to quell the disturbances. That totally ridiculous. The're by any standard of american history is totally ridiculous. I mean i that didn't even happen during a brutal civil war our country and yet under this president every time we've predicted he might do something bad. He does something worse. I'm not a conspiracy. Theorist jim i'm not going to weigh in on the details of your particular spiracy but frankly we've got to be concerned about everything on the table and and i had heard from senior military leaders that they are concerned about scenario like this. Well i'm going to do one more theory here maybe conspiratorial. But this one isn't quite as far fetched He's got a lot of debt. Hundreds of millions of dollars and their concerns. And i'm sure you've read about them. Sure you had them yourself that he hasn't been so great protecting Secrets intelligence military secrets as president. Do you worry about what he'll do. Particularly debt ridden ex president with military secrets when he said loose lips in the past. I absolutely i absolutely and concerned about that. In fact there's an interesting proposal that's been thrown out there. For a his foreign debts to countries like russia that our adversaries out the baby covered by the united states government down. That doesn't mean that they forgive them still have to pay them back but they're transferred to the us government so the he owes the money to us not to the russian. Just before this reason to protect us from our ex president selling secrets to our act in look. This is not partisan scheming. I'm not agreeing with your concerns. Because i'm a democrat. I'm just look at the facts. This is who this man is. He has no baseline respect for our troops. He has proven time and again as commander and she that he pays utter disregard for our national security. At least whenever his reputation is on the line and he's proven in the last few days that he's going to go out kicking and screaming like a toddler when it comes to a peaceful transition of power so this is serious stuff. It's sad to have to discuss this on veterans day when we should be simply talking about the amazing heroes as vice president biden every president in american history have called them. We should be talking about the heroes and what they've done for us the example that they have set and maybe even some of the things that our current president might be doing on veterans day to honor them but instead we have to talk about what. This draft dodger. This draft-dodging commander in chief might do to threaten our national security. Just because he can't accept the results of losing an election which talking with conscious south molton who is course veteran. You just mentioned the gym about his so-called Conspiracy theory about pennsylvania that trend the troops being called in to quell disturbances. That you're concerned about scenarios like this. So i'm wondering congressman you know. We've read in our previous history for example in the last days the nixon administration when Some of his closest aides and military people were concerned about the president. Then concerned about. I guess he was having a couple of too many scotches at night or something. I'm wondering when you say you concern about sarah's like this if other people in the military or the defense department are concerned enough and and and working out scenarios what they might do in a situation like that. Jim mentioned you know toadies the present carrying out his orders. But i would think they're an awful lot of upstanding people in the military who like esper- and other people who wouldn't do that even though experts gone they won't the military notice the right thing to do in general here but the the risk of putting the military in an untenable situation mean. What do you do when a general officer says you know mr president. That's in a legal order of knocking to carry it out. And then the attorney general the top law enforcement official in the country comes in and says oh no that is illegal border. You must do it. I mean you can walk to the scenarious here where this becomes very dangerous very quickly. A general milley. The chairman of the joint chiefs of staff came out in an unprecedented with an unprecedented hall for the way that he handled or mishandled the events lafayette square but he also explained that he was caught up in events. Yeah happening that's back my concern and i can tell you that that is the concern of a lot of other people out there. Senior officials in our government. I have been approached by members of this administration. People considered trump loyalists. Who have come to me as a member of the house armed services committee painting scenarios. Like this and saying we have to be vigilant. I have reached out to leaders in our national guard to see if they're concerned about this or whether they're intelligence shows that you know it may be hyped in the media or on you know these. These talk show host in boston or something. That's right it's hot real in the response has been served. Were very concerned. We're talking rhino reality. And and it's raining for our country but we all have to be prepared for you know before we talk about a Soon to be new president who actually does honor the men and women who serve our country trump did do one thing that major happy a bill. He signed that you were in great part responsible for you. Describe to us congressman a bill to establish a three digit number. That everybody in america will know that you can call if you have a mental health. Emergency if you wake up in the middle of the night and you are a loved one needs to talk to someone because you're contemplating suicide or some other thing then then you'll know who to call which is not the case today. I mean most people don't know what the national suicide hotline that eight hundred. burr is. Imagine if you woke up in the middle the night in your house was burning down and you had to go try to find a phone book as opposed to simply knowing you dial nine one one so this is a bill that will change lives. It will change lives because thousands of americans every week. Who wanna get help. But just don't know how to reach. It will all know the number to call it. also what. I didn't expect about it though jim is that is already changing. Things simply do passing this legislation. People are talking more about mental health and how to reach out for help. I can't tell you it's been amazing to hear from families across the country who have reached out to me on social media or through friends and relatives and said you know. Tell set that this bill is making a difference right now even though the three digit number isn't quite yet operational and it's a great story of veterans working together in congress to because i work together on this with a republican veteran from utah in air force pilot who might be very conservative but he also recognizes the prevalence of post traumatic stress in our military community the issues with mental health around the country that are all aggravated by this pandemic in The people just need to know how to get help terrific. Congratulations all of you on this attain. What it was a lot of work. There's very little real legislation passing in washington. Today we get a corona virus. Package passed the other people bills. We vote honor usually sort of messaging bills but to pass something that took some real compromise. Republicans wanted a different approach. Democrats requires money gets a mandate for the states. We had to get it through the house and mcconnell senate and then even signed by the press is the only the only to the white house and this administration is for. This bill is that we're talking to south molton congressman it kind of spin on president trump. Have a big lead at least according to paul's and and we'll all flesh that out in the coming days among veterans active duty troops were more in favour of biden. But how when you talk about how. These two presidents have dealt with the military. How has trumped on With with veterans. I know he claims tremendous unemployment numbers Lowest in twenty years the president says under him but biden has claimed some successes as well so how is trump and how biden be any man who calls are war dead suckers in losers are volunteers live. I spent the last couple of days. Donna quantico seeing young marine officers get trade trump thinks that they're losers for signing up. Anyone who believes that does not deserve the respect of any battery. I think the only reason why some veterans support trump is that we need to do a better job in the democratic are showing what a strong national security platform looks like that. We are not a party of socialism. Even though that's been effective tagline used against us by the republican political machine in other words people come up with excuses to vote against democrats that at least in. My experience are not. Reel affirmations for draft-dodging commander in chief. But obviously we've got some work to do the veterans community. And i think that the fact that joe biden although he's not a veteran himself as a father of two veterans He he he's connected to the community in that way. And i know he's going to going to work to make that case to make that political case even though his record is is flawless in terms of supporting veterans. And i know that. I'm gonna be there right by side however i can be from congress to support him in that in that effort. Look i'm not someone who's just gonna blindly agree with whatever democrats in our. I think you know that about me. I very very openly. Critical of the obama biden administration foreign policy. When i disagreed with it. So i'm not afraid to speak out but i do know what it means to support veterans with true service as opposed to lip service. And all we get from this. President is occasional lip service and an awful lot of his disparagement. Along with maldon after you pulled out of your Campaign for the presence. I know you were an early. Supporter of joe biden The central theme of the close of this campaign and of his first speech on saturday night was I'm going to unite. This nation of iran is a proud democrat. He says but i will serve as the president for all the people. there is a divide. That is incredibly intense. Right down the middle Is it pollyanna like to think that even a guy who has a history of reaching across the aisle can do anything about uniting these disparate elements in this country. It's not pollyanna but it is hard. He's got a hard task ahead of him. So in division is often much easier than inspiring unity. And that's that's what biden needs to do. He has to inspire us inspire us to come together to put aside our differences to do. What's right for the country even if it's not personal best interests political interests but that's what great leaders do. That's exactly what great leaders have to do. Is why so. Many great leaders come from our veterans community because they had to inspire americans in some of the most difficult circumstances on earth where inspire americans to literally risk their lives to do. What's right for our country. But i do think that there are a lot of americans out there who want that kind of leadership who yearn for that great american tradition that's can completely cast aside by by donald trump. I'm reminded of one of the most The powerful conversation. I i had a my first campaign here in massachusetts course i talked to thousands and thousands of people trying to win my first election but the most memorable was a world war two veteran. I met rally. I explained veteran myself myself. He you frankly didn't seem to be too impressed. He's probably a lot of aspiring auditions. It is boring but he looked me in the eye. And he said seth if you win this election promise. Meal go to washington as an american not as a democrat or a republican but as an american. Now look at this politically divided time in our history. I don't know if i've ever been more proud to be a democrat. But i try to be congressman. Who's first and foremost in american every single day. Because i know my job just here. Massachusetts is to represent everyone who voted for me in everyone who didn't and everyone who felt so kicked out of the process that they didn't even show up to vote at all. That's my job. That's the job of everyone elected to opt to office in this country. Joe biden gets that he understands that. And that's why. I've always called him such an incredible unify leader. I don't agree. With joe biden on everything. But i know he can bring his country together but make no mistake going to be art. We're talking to chef molton carson. That back in two thousand sixteen. You were leading the charge to get new leadership in the house against nancy pelosi Now you are up in favor of continued leadership there. What happened look. I'm always go for the best candidate but in this moment in our country's history i believe that candidate isn't anti pelosi because she's the person best able to hold our fractious democratic caucus together. Which is exactly what we need to do. If we're going to accomplish. Joe biden's agenda and make no mistake. We lost seats in the house. We've got some problems okay. We've lost seats in the house in this election where we are expected to pick up. Maybe a dozen but that makes the clock is even harder to hold together. And that's why having someone who can do that they're right now is important. Don't forget we gotta deal. We gotta deal in two thousand eighteen in exchange for the votes that she needed to get elected. Which was there will be terminals. And i expect her to honor that That those moments at the end of this term but right now i think she's the leader that the party needs so it's a different place. It's a different time. And and that's why supporter right now. What was that a call for the democratic caucus. Look it was contentious. It was contentious for sure. But but that's okay. It's okay to how debates about our policy and about our leadership especially when we're trying to be the majority party by definition that means we have the majority of us right so we're not some narrow minded party where everyone thinks. Life were a diverse party with diverse perspectives. And that means we're gonna have debates. That was why was so hypocritical for people to attack the two years ago. For just you know saying we ought to have a democratic election for speaker have candidates make their case run. Not just a point. The person who's always been there and the same is true today. We need to have some tough debates in our party because at least in the house of representatives. We didn't do as well as we should have. In this election. Most importantly we won the presidency. That's what matters the most. And i know a lot of colleagues of mine members of the house candidates for the house of course senate candidates across the country. Health joe biden. Get over the finish line. i. I'm a strong supporter kelly down in arizona for example a lot of people point to his senate campaign is the reason why joe biden want arizona so not trying to be all doom and gloom here but we lost seats in the house. Okay we got a gain seats. Let's be honest here. We can do better and so we need to have an honest open debate about how we can do better. That's warriors good for the country so kind of molten. You're doing your annual veterans townhall. Today was going to be different of course because the virus should doing it online dimension at the beginning. Tell people more about what you're doing you know. This idea comes from fashion younger. The great author war perfect storm but he's always quick to say that actually the tradition comes from american indian traditions across this country where warriors are given an opportunity to share their stories with the communities that they fought to defend and the idea is to bridge the divide between veterans and non veterans. So everyone else out. There understand why people like us were willing to do this. Risk our lives in and then how that's changed us since so. We held the first veterans down hall in the country in marblehead in historic abbot hall. A few years ago it was maybe the most powerful event. I've ever been to a member of congress. It was incredible. It was incredible. Not just because of the stories that veterans shared but because of the reaction of everybody else who thought like okay. Now i get it now. I know how i can help now. I understand why this is so. And so we've carried on that tradition. Ever since it's been expanded. There will be hundreds of veterans town halls across the country. Many of them led by colleagues of mine In in congress who taken up this charge brought them to their own communities but ours. Tonight it will be available on my facebook page at moulton and you can go there at seven o'clock and join the livestream in here. Some incredible stories. And it's a way. I think is much more meaningful than showing up at a parade or something to do. Not just honor our veterans but to understand their service. He called him some good luck tonight. And thanks for your time. Look jim and marjorie. Keep doing what you're doing because every single day you are exercising the american freedoms that all of us in the military thought to protect and we can't lose sight of that. Especially now congressman. Thanks so much for saying that. I appreciate it. Thank you congressman. South molton is a democrat representing the six congressional district as he said earlier tonight. Seven o'clock along with author sebastian. Unger seth multiple hosts their annual veterans town hall meeting. Virtually you can find the livestream for the congressman's facebook page. And we thank you again for joining us coming up with the trump administration continuing to spread misinformation about the election and refusing to accept the electoral math. Are you like the congressman. A little concerned about what's going to happen next. Are they even plotting a coup or opening allies to ask you this nine seven. Gbh boston public radio looking back to boston public radio. Jim brady in madrid. If you're just tuning in. We're talking to congressman seth moulton few minutes ago about trump's refusal to acknowledge the election results in top republicans. Even at secretary of state mike pompeo or propping up trump's assertions elections been fraud that it's been stolen with pompeo saying yesterday they'll be a smooth transition to trump's second term. What are you making of this. If anyone is trying to steal the election it appears it might be the incumbent. Are we as i suggested to or at least ask of says multan. Are we witnessing an attempted coup. And if you're scoffing at that question if not what is donald trump's endgame. He's firing people at the pentagon putting people who were loyalists who were totally Not prepared for these jobs. What is his end game. And i thought seth moulton zander which i'll paraphrase is pretty great when i asked them. I'm not a conspiratorial thinker. And through all of american history the answer would be no but based upon the behavior of this present. Why does anybody think it's ridiculous to think that he may be attempting to stay in power. I don't question it anymore after a week of this do you. I don't know what he's doing what he's doing. I don't know if he just doesn't want to admit he's lost her if he's thinking beyond by the way marjorie out. Let me try to fix it. Great i i don't know if he doesn't wanna meteorologist or if he thinks he won is delusional about it or if he's trying to make money by collecting soliciting money from his supporters for his defense secretary because defense secretary disagree with him about sending troops out troops out to quell peaceful. Protests wasn't going to do that and there's also rumors that he's going to fire gina hospital who runs the la these kind of fire. Christopher wray runs the fbi some big deal guide. The pentagon just stepped down big deal. Guide the doj step down. When i turned gerald bar. He's going to authorize all these prosecutors to go through all these. I don't know. I don't know what's going on. I mean michael. Cohen says he's just going to go back tomorrow lago soon so my question is lawyer but he hasn't so i worry i worry. He's his goal was to get the military to get involved in domestic political issues. That's where esperance stood up. That's where. Millie stood up millions. Still head of the joint chiefs of staff. I think again. I don't think it's preposterous to think that he thinks the military may be of some value in his election stealing campaign and we talk about the thing. That really does make me nervous. Is that you know it's incredible. You never really thought about this before. Because you didn't think that other presidents no matter their sense of their mistakes or We're going to stop the country but a lot of speculation that the president who's four hundred million dollars in debt which is a lot of money. I think you could sell a lot of things and you still be left with a whole there. trump towers worth how much he even owns or what he owes on it. But that that he would be selling america's secrets to foreign governments. I mean that's obviously treason. I i can't imagine he. He even he would do that but i don't know what. Wait a second. Seth moulton told us which i was unaware of that. There's a measure in before congress. It's obviously not going to get anywhere in. The senate even forgot somewhere in the house that would have the united states pay off whatever debt the president. This president has the foreign nations then he would go to the united states for fear of exactly what. You're talking about bill but i. i certainly know that. I've heard that red. That has been proposed before out. Better have him. Oh americans 's the russians in any case. Let's take some calls. Are you as concerned. At least i am. I think marjorie is unsure of how concerned. She is really concerned until someone gives me a better analysis of what his strategy is. If it's not to improperly stay in office charles hyde park. I hi jim. Hi marguerite hi. i'm. I'm very concerned about what seems to me to be the most obvious past. And that is having a state. Republican controlled legislatures Put in a different electorate in a number of key stakes That is for more. They understand constitutional and that will put trumpet to seventy and and then and then they if it goes to the supreme court because it has a constitutional basis they just shrug their shoulders and say no. It's constitutionally correct and and the whole thing just keeps on rolling. I think they'd dead serious about staying in office well again. I think they're dead serious about staying in office to. I wouldn't bet the farm. On what you and i are suggesting charles but i would have said you know. Even a month ago that it would be impossible for this to be the scenario. But i don't think it's impossible anymore. Charles thanks for the call axios and we all remember. Jonathan swan from axios should probably did the best interview ever of president up there. Yeah is reporting today that that there is a feeling among some republicans at their. Maybe these extreme shot last chance. Method that the caller wishes referring to and and fuel to the fires at senate majority leader mitch. Mcconnell and mike pompeo each said yesterday the election results don't become official into the electors cast their votes which is not until december fourteenth and election. Totals don't become official instill states. Certified them so that adds fuel to that theory and the way it would work as phys lawsuit stops certification results in a state. Then that's when the legislators could step into the void and pick a pro trump slate of electors because they would contend. There was so much fraud and popular vote right that. The popular vote is illegitimate and arizona and georgia have gop governors and legislatures and michigan pennsylvania. Wisconsin have gop legislators. I i'm not sure. But i don't think you need a governor. I think it's only legislature. If i'm correct and the same scenario the other step would be to try to get state courts to prevent secretaries of state from certifying the results. So the only good thing. The only have is lead. Lawyers rudy giuliani. That's the only hope for this country. I have i forget where it was. Who reported it but there are two stories about the law firms. That are representing. Talk all over. The police say we don't know who he is. We're not representative. They're getting a little concerned that they are putting in these kind of bogus lawsuit bad for their reputations. And that there's some concern among the partners at these where does mccain. What's his law firm. he went back to some. I'm again again. Big time. Washington law firm. They're concerned gyms and lincoln high. Oh yes hi de margerie on my yeah. I'm also concerned for all of these Reasons have been spoken in. I had about two days of feeling better about things when the election was called. Maybe saturday and sunday and since then this and building there was so right actually come to pass because the language which just spoke about autumn mcconnell's mouth and pompeo they're being very careful about talking about electors and when the elections been certified. And i think this whole thing is building up to the and I think the plan has been all along to get these republican legislature to send their own bunch of electors. I don't think it's really about these lawsuits that they're trying to pursue. I think they know those are going to feel. I think they're just looking to cause some create some sort of story live. You're right it can get people out on the and then just as raised value saying it. Or if yeah and and when i think about mcconnell mcconnell he doesn't wanna say yes or no to this thing he he's the top republicans aside from trump. He should be going and telling trump. You can't do this but instead he's gonna wait and see how it plays out and if if if it works you'll take that power they'll take the second you're right trump and i it's just it's the most disturbing thing that's ever happened in my lifetime in this country and i'm just absolutely terrified and appalled that this may come to pass and thank you for called boy carries perfectly so many people were expressing relief for whatever she said two days and then all of a sudden it started crumbling well to continue the The electors changing their Candidate thing that if that were to happen and apparently this could force this again. According to axios the first real test of the electoral count act of eighteen. Eighty seven. Jim and this could all land before the supreme court. Okay jonathan portsmouth rhode island. Welcome to the show. How you doing goodness wrong guy. First time you guys are normally. I'm listening while. I'm raking leaves and trying to hold onto my my airpods marjorie. Careful raking those leads. Listen i wanted to mention that. Like and moulton said in jim viewpoint that The the new sets and he's oh and he knows the us. There's nothing stopping him from selling secrets to a foreign power like russia To get that money to pay back the us not to make matters worse but this whole thing makes snakes us look on the world stage But it's it's you know like the last caller. I felt good for a couple of days now. A little nervous. Jonathan thank you for your first call and thank you for listening. I hadn't thought of that either. The client bread for those who think were being unfair about the notion that he might disclose sell secrets. He's disclosed secrets already. He put he tweeted out. What was it the iranian launching pad. That was highly sensitive. Data tweeden south to the russians russian. Show the was the day after the muller non. If i remember correctly i mean i you know why does anybody put anything past them if it helps them. Avoid being quote loser. Eight seven seven three zero one eight hundred seventy five the way for those that were being alarmist case not margins usually marjorie. Tell me a better scenario explained to me what the end game is when every single rational analysts knows. He cannot win the vote if he can't win the vote. What's the game plan. And the other thing is you know we're all saying. Oh my goodness how can these republicans go along with them now. Even though he's lost seventy million people voted for him and those republicans do not want to alienate those seventy million voters and some of them are facing re election coming up very soon and so. I don't think there's haven't the losing party face that in every single election in american history and they faced eight their supporters who either won or lost an election. I assume percent of the time they lost. He's been nothing like this. I mean with people worked up into a total frenzy about the united states and allowing people are worked up into a total frenzy. And they are in as we've said a million times a fake news bubble. The thin always accused the mainstream media. Creating i mean they're the ones who are in the fake news bubble and they're totally believing this stuff. I mean you hear these people you know. There was this great video. I saw somewhere where this report is trying to explain some of these things. Well that wasn't really true in. This wasn't really true and know that you're wrong. It's true. I saw it even if it was doctored kind of video or actor headline or a doctored picture of job in a face mask or without a face mask or whatever. It's like you know it's just not true. Let's go to paul pre existing conditions. I agree with you. I mean people say oh. The president's going protect preexisting existing conditions. Looks like. I'm hoping that things are not going to go. South on pre existing conditions supreme court arguments yesterday. But you still don't know we won't know till probably june anyway paulo lister. Hi paul hello marjory. Hello jim i hope you're well on the only thing that surprises me and stuff moten nailed it is. I'm surprised if people are surprised when trump is being communist like people moving to a tornado alley and not expecting tornadoes. Poll i would ordinarily say exactly what you're saying and i this really is beyond the pale. I thought he'd claimed fraud he'd say that the election was stolen. And then just do whatever he can to make biden job much more difficult this week long coordinated effort with his fellow. Republicans is way beyond. What the tornado. That i expected. I i disagree with what you're saying but i i. I think that The tornado that i expected. It's going to be worse than what list. Unfortunately it's it's. I put nothing past him. Nothing at all he has. He has scorpion and the frog back. Crossing the river with fraud. Says okay. i'll give you a right because if you're saying me we both and scorpions things and then and the scorpion. And the frog. What's up with me and says well it's my nature what he does. It love the terminator terminator what he does it. All he does. Paul thank you for the call. I mentioned i had married trump on the other night. His niece and yoshi support and a few well. A few interviews including with me wasn't the first time she said the following is his whole life. He has been able to litigate lie and buy his way out of losing. Buys way. Like stormy daniels litigated. His way like filing lawsuits better ending live. Remember the infamous housing discrimination case in the seventies roy cohn representative. They got their clocks cleaned for discriminating against black would be tenants and after having lost the case where do they do on the courthouse steps claim. Victory one they cl- they want. They say they want a colossal on the greatest victory in the history of the gourds he bride did but lying Getting and buying his way. And you can't do it. Well i said you can't do it here. Maybe maybe can do it here. Joe ziya your niece boston. Your boston public radio. Thank you for calling. hi hi. i'm sorry. I'm i'm a huge fan and first time calling. Thank you the Yes basically i guess Two weeks ago. Two weeks ago before the election i expect it. Trump was going to react in some sort of odd fast. I felt like a crazy twitter storm in a very passive aggressive concession. But i was not expecting it to be this level of where they go into like recount votes in all these states. Where basically the lead is that of a relatively on an average sized callers and it's just like the collective delusion of the republican party is just interesting to see all of innocence the playoffs. She was like almost like a movie of some sorts jersey. I could make the case that in a state like georgia. Where joe biden is. I didn't check since this morning. What are these sixteen thousand boats or something. That's a fairly small amount out of millions. He's louis he is a joe. Biden has one hundred and fifty thousand vote lead jobs. I in michigan and donald trump is filing suit there too so your your evolution on this is exactly. I didn't accept expect a concession speech like you said. But i expected everything else you said i never expected it would go this far and so far. Sadly the week out it has josie. Thanks for calling. We hope you do it again soon. You know i it really is. It's he hasn't even makes me even more nervous that other. We haven't seen him and he did the obviously the for veterans day. i assume he's laying the wreath. He may have already done it. I'm just followed the news during our show but don't you think his silence is scary to since it is so a trumpian in so many ways i thought he was gonna be out there every day with all of his made up. Examples of the post the worker. Who said he heard his pose boss talking about how they're going to fix the ballots and of course he recanted that thing Not too long. After i silence scares me in this case. We're keeping a pile a record. What's going on on trump media apparently One of the fox. News anchors julie bandera. She's during the day basically told his campaign manager. Tim murtaugh that he was making stuff up. And she kind of shut him down and said he was talking about how you couldn't be counting votes after november third and pennsylvania. She kept saying well. Yeah you can't keep kind of goes their mail and you couldn't start counting until election day so she i mean sometimes during the day ducey that on fox not hit much a night but you do wonder whether they'll go right down this slippery slope with him. I guess they will shut up kayleigh mcenany at a press conference. We'll see we gotta go okay coming up. Actually we've got some good news here so we get your mind off. the coup. A pfizer corona virus vaccine. Looks very promising. The bad news is stirring up the anti vaccine. But we'll find out from medical ethicist art caplan. How much conference. We should put in this vaccination. What's going to happen next. That moore's ahead eighty nine seven. Gbh boston public radio. Welcome back to boston. Public radio jim brady and marjorie despite the us. Suppressing ten million krona virus cases. Anthony fauci says there's reason to feel optimistic with pfizer announcing that its covid vaccine is more than ninety percent effective its breakthrough that brings up all kinds of questions. When will be available. Who will get it. I kennedy even be delivered to those who need it joining us online and talk about this and other current events news is art caplan artists doctors william f. and virginia connolly mitty professor and founding to head of the division of medical ethics. Nyu school of medicine art. Good to speak to you. Hey how are you good well. I'm kind of excited from everything i've read about. This pfizer vaccine. Sounds pretty good to me. What do you think. I'm very excited. These results are good. They're coming in at a ninety percent or better efficacy rate and abroad population. They tested this vaccine and older people. They had pretty good diversity in the study. I think it's some really good news. I'm excited by it now again. You know it's early data. You take this study's out to the end. The fda not gonna approve this vaccine based on what they've announced so far they also haven't really published their date of said. Here's what we got and trust us. It's looking pretty good. No reason to doubt it but And just for listening so we're thinking is. The company visors spinning things. They basically said their independent day committee was enthusiastic about this. That's what they were announcing it not internal scientists. It's this group that they hired to advise them about how the data looks so very very good news. And what do we think in terms of time. When i've read this morning is that the first of the year we could start to get the most The top of the list people medical people earlier. I read for the top list people. No i thought here. But i could be wrong. If the company applies is i think they will for emergency use authorization which basically says early. Data looks good enough. Please let us use it. In the highest risk people probably frontline healthcare workers could be nursing home staff nursing home residents that kinda groups It has to move through some committees to get approval. If you will so the fda will have to look and seek advice about whether they agree that the data looks good enough. I think they will. And i think also look people may be thinking well. Is there some hard number that somebody says. Yep if he hit that particular point. then we're going to let you use It early in some people. Well it's partly a value judgment. And i think given the pandemic and given the fact that there are people facing high risk and given the fact that the country is spiraling into you know gigantic flare up everywhere that drives early release so i think we will see it and i'm going to say for me. It's probably as early as ended december for some groups and the rest of the population. Maybe by spring. If all this bodes well correct correct and so again it's limited by a couple of things We say rest of the population but you still have supply limits so it may not be every member of the public. I would think we'll probably go down the list that seems to be building consensus which is high risk Frontline healthcare workers nursing home residents than we go to the elderly than we go to elder People with Chronic conditions diabetes or Leukemia things that put Well maybe not kimia. They may not be able to build an immune response but people who have chronic conditions that seemed to put them at risk. Asthma there's one like governor christie ad and then onto sort of general folks so one limits. How much did they got in terms of warehouse and supply. And it's a two dose vaccines so you gotta come back and get the second one so it's not gonna kick in even if you started administering it in april. You're probably not gonna see benefits till may june because it takes that long to work You also have to ship it and this is one of those vaccines that requires a lot of refrigeration which puts practical limits on where it can go so art. I want you to know if you're right about the priority order. I will be broadcasting live from the nearest nursing home that i can let me. Just say that margie. And i are huge fans of stat that tax science piece of the boston globe what a contribution has been even week around virus. You wrote a terrific piece the other day with three year colleagues and before you tell us about why you'd prefer something called expanded access which i never heard of before peng as opposed to emergency use authorization. You've the four of you wrote on behalf of the vaccine working group on ethics in policy. What is it. Oh we formed a Fifteen person advisory groups not even part of in while you were. Am it's just independent ethics folks public health people and just trying to use it to make sure that as events unfold we write in pine and contribute to the general discussion. So it's a free standing working group chaired by historian named david ocean ski and He has written about Polio he wrote up pulitzer prize. Winning book god the battle against polio. Vaccine so gives us a little historical perspective as well. So what does expand that access in. What's their between expanded access. An emergency use authorization. It sounds a little in the weeds but it's important so emergency use authorization. We've seen that used for some drugs and the fda is said okay. We're going to allow it. That basically means we liked the way your data's looking early and we're gonna say the doctors you can prescribe it and treat it as if it was a therapy for some people. Early emerging expanded access is a program where you say. We're going to let you use it early. But it's more like it's still research so instead of saying to doctors you can just prescribe it and give the vaccine or the drug to whoever is in this group that we give you approval for from the fda if do expanded access the fda approves it but it says you still have to get informed consent as if it was still researching. You still have to have an i. R. b. oversight at meaning a research ethics committee saying. We're okay with doing this. So at one end of the spectrum expanded access is we'll let you do it. Keep collecting data be Consenting people because it's not really approved and treat it like it's research at the other end is emergency use and that is more like it works at least we think it's going to work for these folks that were giving you approval to try it in and you know you don't have to collect anymore Data you don't have to get special informed consent. It looks like it's working you. Jim how on the show last night. Maybe you should explain this gym because it was your show it. Someone talking about hesitancy. Oh vaccine wise about from donaldson nurses. I watch which i shouldn't have. I watched sixty minutes on sunday. Did you see the sixty minutes. Okay so first of all we have General purna who's running operation warp speed. Who says he goes home at night and google's all the terms he doesn't understand during the day so i can participate in the discussion. That was really confidence building. I should say but what was really you know you and we talk about. The antibiotics is all the time. And i wanna exclude the traditional antibac- sers the sort of the appeal. Excuse the expression. You don't have to the crazies on the on vaccines. Obviously the numbers. We've read are much higher than the general population for whatever reason about those who say they won't get the vaccine. What alarm me. I double check this to make sure there is not a mistake. The a health commissioner for new jersey was quoted in the same piece and she said they did a survey think of two thousand medical professionals in new jersey. Your neighboring state down there and sixty only sixty percent of doctors said they would take. The vaccine. Now is shocking. What was more. Shocking is only forty percent of nurses said they take the vaccine. You know it's bad enough. That trump is not a role model on this issue. You would assume that medical professionals would be showing the way for the rest of us. Is that not terrifying to you. And is that just a function of trump and it changes with biden. What do you make of this. Yeah i do think it's anomalous distrust of trump trump's pressure on the fda and other agencies. The cdc to approve something early. He kept saying you wanted vaccine approved by election day. Even now. he's still trying as he fights the election results. He was saying you know they really work together to get us this pfizer vaccine which is ironic because pfizer the only vaccine maker that didn't participate in operation warp speed into any government money. They're they're not part of it at all so they're blowing smoke there but to answer your question jim. I think that's all gonna flip the results. Look good the effectiveness. Looks good with more trust in the agency the regulatory agencies making independent calls about saying the data's all right. I'm not as worried that we're going to see those kinds of numbers. Among healthcare workers the traditional divac hardcore folks may still bach. But someone running around. Saying i got a safe ninety percent effective vaccine. I think that's going to change the the willingness to talk about the visor seeming to distance themselves from moore speed that have to do with fears about the president. Were what was that. Why did they do that. Why did they for two reasons one. They thought they could go faster without government oversight and then i think they were also in the view that they could distribute fast faster than what jim and i and you were talking about on sixty minutes. The general in the military system. Okay because they knew they had a weird vaccine with strict refrigeration requirement You know it's gotta be ultra cold. Because the way that vaccine works it falls apart. If it's not kept really really cold. I think pfizer felt they could build their own distribution chain that they would use so. I think those were the reasons. Okay what kind of not just for one. Second i i wanted i about to give i think donald trump is due which. I don't the thing that i thought was a tad disingenuous art. When the head of pfizer went out of her way to say. Let me be clear. We had nothing to do with operation warp speed. We didn't take any money from wall. It's true in terms of the development of the vaccine. There was a carrot dangled out there at two hundred million dollar federal ab- sorry eight is it. How much is it is it. Two billion how much money is two billion dollar to leave to buy of the vaccine and it seems to me again in the spirit of fairness. It's an incentive for fis to do. Its work knowing that if they succeed. The federal government's gonna give them two billion dollars for their work. Product isn't isn't that fair. And i think that's important to point out. It's not the same as saying you gave us the money to develop tourist. But yes it is and i think to give the administration do they did. Try to build up funds and get ready to stockpile a pay for this. There are many manufacturers including five zero. They've already made a lot of stuff and have it in warehouses. Were very cold knowing that if it works. They're going to get paid. That was reasonable approach. One thing. we could fight about Is whether the administration bit so heavily on vaccines that. They didn't spend enough money on research for medicines to treat people who get sick if you looked at the budget. It's like ninety percent vaccine funding and payment for a winners and maybe ten percent for medicines. There are diseases that we combat and control by using drugs. Think hepatitis c. We don't have the vaccine but we've got a pretty darn good medicine eight. We don't have a vaccine but we have pretty darn medicines now so you know there are people who say they over bet on the vaccines. They put too much over there. But you know what's interesting about this. The trump administration has been downplaying the virus throughout and saying. It's over when it's not disappearance. Not i mean obviously they go go hot and heavy into the vaccine and of things which emits the problem. So it's a weird dichotomy there it is it's true and look some other interesting things so five has an early Announcement ahead of everybody else. But there's a almost the same kind of vaccine being developed by a company called madonna. I'm here from then pretty faster. It's the same two-shot heavy refrigeration thing but it would add more access because it's just another company with bigger supply. The world is going to need a lot of vaccine so there's room for more than one company and so some people may get one vaccine in another group of people may get a different vaccine. And maybe they'll be slight differences on efficacy. You know maybe ones ninety percent or better and maybe once eighty percent but that'll be interesting to see how that sorts out in terms of which one you know you get so to speak. I plan to get them all. Actually but i'm sorry. Maurice gonna say this pfizer vaccine. There was some controversy among evangelicals. And some catholics about the use of fetal cells but this pfizer wanted did not use any fetal cells so that eliminates the concern among those people who are pro life or anti-abortion abortion road to. That aren't the same. Kinda vaccine use fetal cells that were obtained fifty years ago. Yeah and i think it's important understand. Well some people object. The catholic church and one of the previous popes did issue a statement. That said it's okay that it was so far. Sorry pardon me so far in the past that they were going to Say it was morally permissible benefit the community even if you had this distant connection to fetal tissue so when you mentioned minute ago this ninety two ten or approximately ninety. Ten split in terms of focus on vaccine versus treatments doesn't eat Lily antibody whatever thing from last couple of days fall in the latter category. It does And i think again. I don't know what the pots of money were. That lily us to do research there. But i think they did it on their own budget. This is the antibody idea. it's like we're gonna put antibodies in you to the virus The kind that the virus would normally trigger in your body. But we'll get there early so you don't have to wait for your body to try and make them and it will stifle the virus early. It's what trump got with that Regeneration made product. And it's what chris christie got with this lily product and we can argue about. How come they got it so fast and we know the answer clout i mean. We basically have some people getting things before others because of who they are which i still bemoan but there it is. That's our healthcare system. But now lilly saying you know we have hundred thousand doses and it will start to become available more widely. The date again is suggestive. That it helps. That wouldn't say definitive but it is a drug approach yup so You know this may help you. We all know that that while. I think we've given appropriate credit to the trump administration on the vaccine front Beyond that it's pretty clear they don't give a damn about the fact that a thousand people are dying every day we know about mark meadows and these other staff people election just to jump in. Don't really care. They seem to have caused a lot of super spreader events. Well we also have an. I heard a peep out of the white house in the weeks since the election about this raging epidemic pandemic across the country january twentieth biden takes over and most analysts. I'm guessing you'll say the same thing have been positive about his plans but it seems to me that two holes in his plans are these one that he can't do anything about him until january twenty f- and even if he does attempt to do something after january twentieth. It's more likely than not that. He does not have a senate that is willing to appropriate a vote on approval of funds for the increases in testing. And those sort of things. He's talking about. So where are you on both the the hypothetical value of the biden plan and the real impact of the biden plan. Well let me say. I think he's got a good advisory group. He announced the new task force. I think it's great guy. Solid science folks on there and That's good where i am. Jim is this. I think more scientists in the federal agencies are going to be willing to move and push back and do what they need to do with. Trump is a lame duck. It was one thing. Say if i want to stay is the fda commissioner. I better not be crossing trump at least visibly or if i want to be the the like burks was i think comes down knowing that he's leaving you just don't care even if he says i'm going to fire you you're thinking well i'll get rehired in three weeks or six weeks or something. What do i care. So i think that emboldens The science experts the public health experts in the agencies to be aggressive on the budget. End if we're in the middle of this giant Pandemic and it's getting worse. I think the senate is going to have to go along. I really do funding just to to nuts and dangerous. Well the the big thing you here and we're talking to our medical kaplan the big thing you hear says it is too expensive. Get these tests you. Some people say it's too hard around here. It seems to be. It's not that hard but it's expensive to pay for them so doesn't he have to get a lot of money from republican controlled senate unless things change in georgia to get the money to do that. Universal free testing. He does. But i think if people say let's get through to the vaccine in the summer. Let's just talk that way through. I think i can't im- you know there are many things i can't imagine about politicians to but and this one i can't imagine they wouldn't jump in and say let's do the testing tracing. Let's do the isolating. We got get a handle here one last thing. I don't mean you're much more optimistic today than i think. Our conversations usually are seventy. Some days is a long long time. When all the experts say december january are going to be the worst three months of the whole pandemic. How does that affect your thinking. About what biden confronts or is that the reason you believe senate is going to have to act the reason. I think the senate is going to have to act in again. I think some of what trump's indifference might be. You may see some of these agencies starting to say here's what we want to do about this. Here's what we're gonna do about that fighting him publicly crossing going into Debate and it also empowers the states to try and do things for example. I saw finally utah. Said we got to pass. So you may see if you will Republican red states. Starting to say we're going to act and we don't care if we cross the president on this one. I mean i don't know if they're gonna cross me seems to have gone mute but You know we're going to have to take more action than regionally or at the state level. That's part of my optimism. Well my optimism. I should say as governor noem from one of the dakotas said yesterday. She is agreed that as soon as half the people interstate or dej force mask mandate which i think is a very progressive motorcycle. Hoedown thing we get advice and people are going to be challenged. What are we gonna do about these holidays. So i do see that. There's a lot of evidence that people are planning to travel. I saw survey today said something. Like forty percent of americans are planning to go somewhere for thanksgiving. You guys see that. I don't know. Just i heard about. Yeah and so. Who's going where i were. They getting there. I hear ads for amtrak saying you know come on board. We're ready the distance you and handle you but it makes me nervous unless people have been you know bubbling and quarantining and maybe getting tested before they step foot on that train or they're going to be able to drive somewhere but not you know. Stop at the rest stops. And so on. We're gonna get even worse. I that that's a tough challenge art. We'll talk to you next week. Thanks so much for your time you will. I kaplan and joins us every week. He's the doctors william for the committee chair and the founding head of division of medical ethics at nyu school of medicine. That's into art coming up. Gbh executive are senator. John bowen is here with the arts and culture rundown. Keep your down. Eighty nine seven. Gbh boston public radio. Welcome back to boston. Public radio jimgeraghty madrid and join us. Talk through the latest arts and culture events that have adjusted to these toronto virus. Times is gbh is executive arts editor. Jarred bone host of the tv series. Open studio which you can catch friday nights at eight thirty right here on gbh. to hello. jared hello great to be with you both you. Well i think you. Jim talked about this. philip guston show when i was not here on vacation but there's the head of the mfa yes matthew title man So what is going on with this. Now who's philip guston. What is the so-called 'blacklash what's happening we have a big update actually and i was just the mfa So we can talk more about the new monet show. That's coming up too but the first big update is something that will becoming to the. Mfa the story that we talked with matthew teitelbaum. The director of the mfa about was this philip. Guston exhibition hugely anticipated retrospective This fifty year career of the artists who died in one thousand nine hundred eighty. A major artist of the twentieth century influenced a lot of other artists of all stripes. All media This was to be a partnership between the mfa here in boston. The national gallery of art in dc the tate modern in london and the mfa in houston one of the Part of the subject. Matter of philip guston As he worked throughout his career was depictions. these cartoonish depictions of the kkk. These hooded figures Driving smoking cigarettes almost these kind of comical looks at the kkk. he is somebody who was very progressive in his art. He added very deliberate reason for depicting these figures As a jewish artist in america in california in the nineteen twenties he was targeted by the kkk as he depict had these depictions but as this show started to come to the fore there started to be blowback about why is this being presented. I think the the this contingency of museums didn't necessarily have the proper language to move forward and really got caught and didn't have a perfect answer for it. So they decided to delay the show until twenty twenty four. And this is what jim and i had spoken to matthew teitelbaum about about about. Why would you do this. Why would you take an artist who had this progressive message. Who you this is very serious. Why would you do that. And matthew pedal titled bombs response to was basically. We want to put this show in context. We wanna make sure. It's shorts carefully understood by our community And so the update here is that the mfa had kind of hoped would happen rooting for the hometown team. The mfa will now be the first museum to show the exhibition. It's been moved up from twenty twenty twenty four to May i twenty twenty two. Well you know we did talk to matthew teitelbaum i would have a little bit of the sound we. We asked him about. If now wasn't the time to do it when would be. And here's just a snippet of what he had to say. We have to work markazi with our staff around. Different points of view react to are closely in our community the different points of view. Because i think one thing we've done is Too little about how things have received you know moms have thought a lot about how to presenting the whole question of how they received in particular moment very important. You know jared. I don't know if i picked up on this and maybe you did. Is that just code for saying all. The people who were in charge of this effort of the for museums were white people and we made a horrible mistake and now we got to fix it. Well that was part. Didn't necessarily come from matthew teitelbaum but that was part of the argument is that they had white curator's they needed other voices to be part of the curial curatorial team as others have pointed out The book that comes with the show which has been published. And i actually just went through over the last couple of days. Does all of that work in puts. It explains who philip guston was why he was creating this. It has other artists voices including artists of color. Glenn ligon trenton doyle. Hancock reading about how their work has been influenced by their work so to me it was all the work was done But i think of course. We are in this time of racial reckoning how everything is presented throughout the arts and theater and museums and so these museums spelt felt especially sensitive in terms of how they were going to program going forward so part of the programming that will happen here When the show opens will be teaching modules for students more video clips more historians This is a moment. I think we're we're seeing a complete re-examination and will probably have a different experience as we enter into museums about how the work is framed. Of course i laying out all the facts here. There are also critics who say just let audiences decide for themselves. I mean there are museums in this country. Who have experimented with having no labels whatsoever just go inside galleries emotional response you have and what kind of intellectual response you have to work. We're talking jibe executive our seller here at w. g. b. h. To excuse me during that to ten dollars. America so what else is going on at the. Mfa jared yes. So i just this morning. Was there for the new monet. Show as as i've mentioned over the course of this year this will be one hundred fiftieth anniversary of the museum of fine arts and one of the ways in which you wanted to celebrate was having all thirty five paintings that it owns By monet on view and so has now open to the public and this is really just a stunning show. If you think you know monet and you think maybe you a little tired. Because you're so familiar with the gallaghers the banners the postcards this show curated by katie hanson. Just puts him in a new context. see understand this lasting connection between monet in boston because he was collected here as a hot contemporary artist and had relationships you'll let writing relationships with collectors and other artists. John singer sargent. It's all laid out. It's all been put into the contemporary art gallery. So you have this huge literally this huge long span where you can just have these wonderful moments. Large gallery moments with monet. I mentioned this because all the november tickets are sold out. However december tickets from monet and general admission. Go on sale for members next Next week the eighteenth for members and on the nineteenth for for the public. So you'll want to get your tickets to be able to see the show and the great thing sad for the museum because not as many people can go in but the great thing if you are a patron you you feel like you have the museum to yourself. That's pretty great. That's for yes i would. How do they. How many people do they have as time is. Yeah but can you have three people. Five people's interest and twelve feet apart. What's the deal. They asked for social distancing. I did see signs in specific gallery. Rooms within monet was twelve. Only twelve people at a time and they have galleries are the rooms are huge so you you can be completely spread out so it's very careful you feel very comfortable And i i think it works. It was actually supposed to be in two smaller galleries. They moved it to this just so there will be a better healthy flow and i think it works better because you get the majesty of monet. Is there a sign. I'm told that says. Jim you'll enjoy this because this is the only artist whose work you could actually identify. No i did see the stencil. And i think that's what it just hasn't gone up yet so embarrassing. I can't wait to see that. We're talking to jared bowen. There's something else at the mfa as well right. The big basquiat show. I'll of course. Yeah so excited about stuff going on at the. Mfa yeah well. This is another major show that had been in the works for a long time. A people might know jean michel. Basquiat is major street artist. Who came out of new york in the nineteen seventies and early eighties and into the downtown new york scene. Where you you all of these artists coming together If there's one of those times that you wanted to get into a time machine and be catapulted back to. It might be this time. Where you have these greeley creative artists hip hop is the music is starting madonna's hanging out with people keith. I mean just all of these artists who would become illest artists but they had all come from the street they were labeled graffiti artists And so this show puts bosque basquiat in the context of all of the other artists. Who came up with him all of these artists who descended on new york Use the the subway as their canvas. It was a great canvas. Because you could you be seen by. So many new yorkers because the subway trains would speed throughout new york and they they took umbrage of course at the notion that they were simply graffiti. Artists are just street artists. And they said we belong in galleries and of course. Most of them made their way into the galleries bosque. I became one of the most celebrated of that bunch But here you see everybody else. Who came into tally. of course No man is an island. We all of these are just come together and it feels like a party when you go to this exhibition at the nfl. I while you see music videos and you hear the music You descend into the gallery as if you're descending into the subway but you can't help but have the sense at all of these artists are literally hanging out together again as you see their work in conversation with one another and it's just it's fun it's great and it's so different. He's no one who died. Twenty yeah he. I mean he had this whole history is incredible to go from that and he was really well educated. His mom had brought him taking him to museums so he knew exactly what he was painting what he was doing He saw he saw this huge income as he became this major artists and then saw even a little bit of starting to turn so he experienced a whole lifetime in its very short life marjorie. Speaking of hanging out you know that. I lived in new york the years that busca was correct. I'm sure you're right there in the midst of the hip. I spent a lot of late nights together. Talking about his work we did. He asked me never to mention it. So but i was there at the time boy to say that he was one of the talk of. The town is an understatement. Your the next exhibit. We're gonna talk about is not at the mfa but at the gardner and the reason. I'm particularly interested in this. Adam pendleton thing is because i believe. I saw a piece of your interview with him. I believe he was one of those things. In residents did you describe to us like six months ago or something where you actually live in the museum which i found to be one of the most exciting thrilling kinds of things i can. I hope i'm right about that. He was one of those correct. He was back in two thousand eight and explain what that is before you talk about him. What what are these people do. Where are they what can they do. So you apply to become an artist and residents or your chosen. Actually it's probably more your chosen You basically you have free roam of the museum you they bring you in. You live there. He adam pendleton told me that. He spent ninety percent of his time in the museum. A lot of people will explore boston especially if they're international visitors but he just wanted to absorb the museum and this is why this program is so special. It's it's been ongoing for so long. It hearkens back to when isabel stewart gardner herself wanted to bring artists and musicians into the space to to create this energy to to have life in the space today artists and residents brought in so that they can explore the collection and they always surface seeing the collection that never changes purposes gardeners will In different lights. And so what. Adam pendleton has done in this installation called elements of me is says he was exploring the museum. He was quite struck by her systems of display. He'll be outright. Tell you that he doesn't really have a huge affinity for a lot of the art in the museum. He grew up He's very young. He's in his thirties. He grew up looking at people like sol lewitt and some of the minimalist artists of the latter part of the twentieth century And so here. He's created an installation call again called elements of me that disrupts the gardener in this gallery. So you go from one yellow painted room with whistler and on your way to another room filled with a european you suddenly walk into his space which is black and white geometric displays He has one picture of an african peace Because we know. The gardner mainly collected from europe her scope wasn't completely broad beyond that and so he is inserting himself into the museum. And it's just striking from anywhere first of all to be inside that gallery to see what he's done is striking but then to be anywhere else in the museum be able to look into it Is is quite informational. you mentioned Is best to a gardener and her edicts about where things could be placed. Tell people about that. Who may not know she. She somebody who always collected she she. I lived On beacon street in. Boston is a major collector With her husband she got a notion in her head that she wanted to build a venetian palazzo. Having spent a lot of time in europe and of course including venice and so she built. In the fenway where nobody else was building. There is nothing her really at the time. So she built this palace and she had a very very clear view of how she wanted to display her works. It's very idiosyncratic to a lot of people. It doesn't make sense necessarily unless you're gardner. But she puts pieces in conversation with one another but her will stipulated that the house. The museum had to stand exactly as it was when she died. Otherwise if anything changes the entire collection goes to harvard. And that's why all the empty spaces for the stolen art or empty spaces right. Yeah that's why they want and that fantastic atrium there in the. it's just such a beautiful restaurants. I know they have a whole new greenhouse right group a new restaurant outside. The outside is great It's it's fabulous. It's this place so can we go. I'm gonna mispronounces arlington. Is that how you pronounce this thing. It is yes. This sound that we talk about this show that is exploding all over the world with you months ago or am i confusing. It was something else we we talked about Goodness all forgive the name of the show. natasha the state versus natasha. Video your good. Put them on the map When they put it online you really one of the most innovative experiences i've had during the pandemic in terms of seeing what theaters have done online. But now they've created a new piece called insulted belarus bellarusse And this is a play reading that I was staged. I think it was last month. But they're bringing it back for a series of stagings both in in russian next week. And this is a play completely created in the moment By playwright. By the name of andre carre chick And he has looked at what has happened. In belarus with the reelection i put that in air quotes the reelection of alexander lukashenko Obviously this is ray contested election our own state department here in the. Us has had there was it was just rife with row fraud Same state department. Who said said you can't wait for the transition to donald trump's second term bellarusse but go ahead would be the same so it is very interesting to to look at this and in the context of what is just what is unfolding here in america to But for months. Just i'll play the part of charlie senate for a moment for months. There have been huge protests. They're still happening hundreds of thousands of people protesting People being disappeared. People being detained. People being abused so this plate under karadzic has crafted a piece where he has interviewed people who've participated within these protests and created characters. there are prototypes. So you get this sense of what the revolution has done. Just in the past few months. I think he started writing this summer. Finished on september twelfth reached out to theaters eager golick runs arlington. Players theatre ran with this. They've presented it And then one of the most interesting components of this is essentially the second act of the play where they have a talkback and under a career. Chick zooms in hiding. Because he's been forced to while he he left belarus knowing that he probably wouldn't survive if he stayed so he's zooms in and has a conversation from hiding about his observations. Where is this theater. By the way i think i sort of jumped over that. Where are they located there in needham and the this natasha tasha thing called the state versus natasha baena. Everybody who's first of all. How do you see it is still available in to everybody who has seen. It has said what you said. One of the most creative things done in the time of krona virus. What made it so creative in different. Well first of all one big thing is it's live that may sound silly but i got my link. I knew i had to sit down and just go to the theater. Well And you're you're in this experience where natasha baena is is is pleading her case as she's up on charges she's pleading her case to you so it's a one person play And you feel completely engaged. And i understand since i saw. They actually bring in some of the audience members. I think we're starting to see these. Virtual screaming plays evolve. Especially you only. You can only be lives that they can bring in the audience for their reaction and just with some of the the create animation the creativity that they were able to bring. It just felt different. It wasn't it wasn't just simple talking in front of a camera. So we have two minutes left and i believe you're gonna treat us to some music from the bso which is another place. That's gotten very creative. In the time of chronic virus. What are we going to hear. This is a really Wonderful collaboration it started with richard seabourn. Gussie bring. he's the principal horn with boston. Symphony associate principal horn with boston symphony orchestra and as he began to see what was unfolding this summer. He wanted to have an outlet for his anxiety. Who's sadness about what was happening in the world Killing of black people by police and so he turned to the language as he told me that he really speaks best which is music so he crafted this piece And then shared it with charles. Charles overton who is a harpist Former student and a friend and together. The two collaborated for this piece on in horn and harp charles. Overton named it. He's an african american. He called it. Listen to the cry of your fellow man so it sounds like you have. A piece of this redo is quite beautiful. It just needs to the power of language because in charles overton told me when he said it was the first thing he had heard that really resonated with them in terms of describing his own feelings. I read that that's great. what are you doing. Friday job bone We well speak with My turn you spend all week working on a show and then you're asked about. You can't remember anything go ahead. We're speaking with artistic director. Michael bob at new repertory theatre about what they're doing and We visit stephanie cole. In her new exhibition at the fuller craft museum. She's been working her entire life making art and in her seventies is getting her first show mainly because she never wanted to be seen. She just wanted it to be private and personal. And you you had the two musicians on on your show. And i think you can see this on streaming on their website as well right concede on their website. And you can our interview at studios website. Okay thank you. So much jared w. g. b. h. oops gb senator jack dollars colin jagmohan. Sharon cohen. Thirty okay together. Now tv series open studio which you can catch friday nights eight thirty right here on. Gbh to thank you chad. Thank you for listening to another edition of boston. Public radio tomorrow senator. Ed markey will be with us. Chuck todd post-election week analysis and andrew cobra for another edition of law and order our crew chelsea murray zoe matthews handed yooglie aven calmly our engineer. John the law. Parker offsite engineers are mild. Smith and dave goldstein. What's going on jim on. Tv nicholas burns former. Nato ambassador and former under secretary of state for political affairs is gonna join me to talk about all the things we talked about about our relationship now. That biden has been quote elected. According to donald trump with our allies our adversaries his concerns about these firings of the pentagon mitchell garabedian his back after this report on cardinal mccarrick that is just an abomination and i have a little commentary about The electro college and how now is the perfect time to bid adieu as they said. That's all tonight. Okay jim brady forty dollars. Put it in the jar. Thank you for listening to have a great afternoon see tomorrow.

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Boston Pops' Keith Lockhart Wants This Year's Re-Imagined Fireworks Spectacular To Meet The Moment

Radio Boston

48:22 min | 11 months ago

Boston Pops' Keith Lockhart Wants This Year's Re-Imagined Fireworks Spectacular To Meet The Moment

"Governor! Charlie Baker. Today announced that for almost all of Massachusetts face through the economy's reopening will begin next Monday. July six that means businesses and organizations from gyms to museums will be able to open their doors with restrictions now Boston is the lone exception face. Businesses won't open their until a week from Monday. Meanwhile, the US hit fifty thousand new cases in a single day yesterday and states across the South and West are facing serious threats to their healthcare capacity. So why are we different? And how could climbing cases elsewhere affect us in the long term Oh and don't forget this. This weekend is July fourth. So what safe to do and not to do when celebrating, let's ask the doctors about all of it. Call with your corona virus questions at one, eight, hundred, four, two, three, eight, two, five, five. That's one eight hundred four to three talk, or you can tweet us at Radio Boston for our medical panel today. We have Dr Cassandra Pierre. Who's the acting hospital epidemiologist medical director of public health programs at an infectious diseases physician at Boston Medical Center she's also an assistant professor of medicine at the Boston University School of Medicine Welcome back Dr Pierre. Greedy her, thank you. And also with us is Dr Joshua? Baroque, infectious diseases physician and assistant professor of Medicine at Boston Medical Center and the Boston University School of Medicine Welcome back to you as well. Doctor broke. Hi thanks for having me. So, Dr Pierre from your vantage point. Are we on the corona virus here in the Commonwealth. We have seen. Continued reductions in infections in deaths would be positive for with death. and we are doing so much better than states that you've mentioned in the south in the South West. It doesn't mean that we get to rest on our law laurels. We have to continue to got us here and we're always looking over our shoulder. because what happened in other states may eventually happen here so we WANNA learn from those examples in addition to that know our borders are porous They're not you know there's there's no line in the. The sand that prevents others who are infected from coming in and so they're always. We need to confuse you the thing that we have been doing to prevent infection and prevent a surge in our own population, but today even with the reopenings. We have been I cautiously, but it seems like we have been heading in the right direction as of yet. Seductive Rookus Dr Pierre just talked about our borders talked about the fact that what's helping happening elsewhere could come to US earlier this week. The governor actually relaxed quarantine restrictions meaning you know having to quarantine for fourteen days if you come in from out of state for seven different New England, states including New York New Jersey. Do you think we have a handle on this here in Massachusetts or is it too early to tell? For right now I think that. All of the data are pointing in a very positive direction Massachusetts what makes me nervous is exactly what Dr Pierre mentioned, and that is this coming fourth of July weekend, and over the summer people drive people travel. people are coming out of our state, not just from the new. England states. And while we seem to have gotten our statewide prevalence down. As soon as we put our guards down as soon as we start relaxing and thinking well, this doesn't really apply to me, This doesn't really apply to us any more than that's when we can get hit hardest and you know it does make me a little concerned knowing that we're gonNA. Have a lot of travel in the next couple of weeks. Even if that travels not by plane. Let me just put the phone number out very quickly. One, eight, hundred, four, two, three, eight, two, five, five. That's one eight hundred four to three talk to ask the doctors. Your Corona virus questions calls are starting to come in I'll go to those in a minute, but before I do I want to follow up on that and ask. Do either of you have a sense of whether people are who are coming into the Commonwealth our practice and compliance. Do we have any sense whether people are doing that sort of voluntary recommended fourteen day quarantine? What's your read on that? Can just say that you know I. Certainly don't know people who. Whether people who are coming to visit are doing that I think it'd be very hard. Ask to ask someone WHO's traveling to Boston for vacation to stay in a hotel room for fourteen days. We know that there. will be more than up. So I am a little skeptical about the hot but I can certainly speak to people who have been vacationing elsewhere. for example, Florida or Texas? We have seen people come in to the hospital who have come from those states for the come back from vacation. They are residents here and they have not quarantined before going back to work and have become ill while working several days or a few days, some cases after coming back from from your trips and so Even though this is only a subset of what you're asking I certainly think that people have a false sense of security been traveling and I do I. It is one of the things that makes me very worried. And concerned that what's happening in other states, affects us. Greatly. Dr Burqas anything. You want to add to that before I. Go to our first call. I think that Dr Pierce said it all very well. I think we should take some calls and see what people have to have. Let's do it. One, eight, hundred, four, two, three, eight, two, five, five. That's one eight hundred four to three talk. We've got tiffany on the line from the Back Bay. Hi tiffany. What's your question for our doctors? Hi. There so real quick I have a two and a half year old little girl, who loves to play outside, and as a parks slash pads. Playgrounds have reopened I. I really WanNa take her because she loves it. but I'm a little concerned about. Our risk of you know picking up things by touching them as well as being around other kids, and she won't wear a mask consistently for very long. She's still only to and social distancing she's. He understands a little bit, and she tries to be a good listener, but honestly when there's a million kids running around. I can't control other people's kids either I. I. Wonder if you could just talk a little bit about the risk of even going to a playground. If I see the mom look, there's not that many kids there today, Maybe it's a little safer. But how do I know about what the kids were there earlier, the touch, the slide or swing or whatnot I'm wondering if you can offer some device there. It's a great question which if you would like to take that? I'm happy to to give a go and Dr Peter can. Can. Interrupt me if I'm going off course We've had the same struggle in our household We have a three and a half year old to Very very against the mask as well I think that. The point that tiffany me raised about even if you went at three o'clock in the morning when no one else is there, it's not just about The other people that are there. It's about who was there. right before you or in the hours before you remember we can. We can pass the virus, not just by a respiratory droplet, but also by surface, contamination and playgrounds, or are one of those places that I worry a lot about so if there are other options as far as you know turning on the hose in the backyard. As opposed to a splash pad or if you're GonNa go to the park. You know there. There are a lot of no touch. Activities or distant deputies. That I've been recommending things like flying I. My kids have really taken to and like a lot kicking a soccer ball bringing your own toys, and then washing them off or wiping them down when you get home. Those are some practical ways that you can still go. Try to enjoy the parts. Try to enjoy the nice. Nice weather there were having while still you know not necessarily putting yourself at risk and and I also WanNa say you know even for those of us that are doing a good job at at physical distancing and trying to quarantine as much as possible It's not just about the risk to you. you know every time we go outside? We are a risk to other people and trying to keep that sense of shared humanity in mind. I found is somewhat useful. And listening to Dr Baroque US I. Find Myself Thinking so wait. What is the latest on what we know about? How long the virus survives on various surfaces. Yeah, so did have about and by the way I agree completely one hundred percent with Dr Bruce say when with my kids to the park yesterday morning and or issue afternoon rather, and it was crowded and scary movie music started playing in the back of my head so I had to take because. but yes, there is data that has shown that I can persist on services up to seventy two hours sped. Up Four hours on surfaces like stainless steel So you know the days worth of persistence, you can have a lot of children's fasting grew parks or other places touching surfaces so It is certainly a concern. All Right? Let's grab another call. One, eight, hundred, four, two, three, eight, two, five. That's one eight hundred four to three talk. Let's get Mike from Everett Mike. What's your question to our doctors? So I mean obviously everyone knows that wearing masks are going to help help with this situation, but I keep hearing when they say that they're required that they're gonNA. Required for people that have a health condition that makes them not able to do it. What kind of condition would make it so someone couldn't wear a mask, and should they be out in public if they have that condition? Okay good question, maybe Dr. Pierre you can start on that one. Sure Yeah I think there's always very nebulous case in no one's ever really. No one has well defined the conditions that prevent someone from wearing a mask. In my experience, it does seem that there are people who have underlying mental health disorders for example anxiety, PTSD especially, PTSD where wearing the mask, evoke really negative health-threatening. Responses but as far as physical physical health manifestation. We know that people with chronic disease COPD and asthma or safe to wear a mask. There may be others who might have Might have difficulty wearing it for long periods of time, and I do encourage those who say that they think they have health condition to contact their physician. Their health providers to get better information and have a conversation about whether or not they really are contraindicated. Really they were really cannot wear a mask I think many more people can wear a mask despite their health conditions that are aware of it. Okay, let's grab another call. One, eight, hundred, four, two, three, eight, two, five, five. That's one eight hundred four to three talk to ask your question next. We've got Joe on the line from Lynn Joe. You're on with doctors BARROCA. Superior go ahead. Thank you for taking my call I know Chris. He's a good guy, and he probably shares some of my views. I don't know, but I'm first time caller I get around applause. Okay, my question is, do you. You've thank you. Do you believe in hurt? Immunity and I do doctors I know? There's a controversy about masks because I have a problem wearing. My doctor wrote a letter another epidemiologist you may want to have on. Chris is Nuke Hausky the world leading epidemiologist from Germany or wherever he's from. He has a company here in this country. He believes in her immunity and I'll tell you why all this social distancing he said is not going to stop. I had the virus hospital I'm going. Going to stop you there Joe and the only reason I'm going to stop. I, don't WanNa bring on expert testimony from people. We haven't worked with confirmed, but I do appreciate your call. I do want to bring the herd immunity question to our our experts and our listeners know what you're talking about. Chris's our director and I think you talked to Chris for second before you came on air Thanks for your first time call. Joe. Let me take this back to the doctors. Brook is in yeah, no I can It's a good and very I think up in the air question. herd immunity is something that We talk a lot lot about with various diseases various infections. the the difficulty here is that This is a very. Contentious Virus! We don't actually lowered. Were all we're getting new data that help us understand WHO's at the highest risk who has? That the worst outcomes some of it is still incredibly unpredictable, and their ethical concerns Dr Sow. She has raised those and we're not necessarily at the point where we have to consider her immunity yet if our prevalence in order to get a vaccine, if our prevalence where to drop to a point where we couldn't effectively taxing then perhaps we could come to the hurt eighty question, but right now we just there's so much uncertainty the ethics behind you know herd, immunity, and just exposing people are very very murky, and it's not something that certainly I would endorse at this point. I just wanted to say there have been studies looking for example at communities that have been hard hit by covert nineteen in. Places like Italy and these communities that saw a lot of infections lot population's a lot of deaths. And surprisingly and unfortunately study showed that with doing antibody testing, looking at serology for people who have experienced infection there actually with a low prevalence of infection in those community, despite the excess deaths in action hostile phase. So even with natural infection. It's going to take. You agreed with the ethics of it. It would take a lot. and I don't know whether we could bear. That is as a society. Before we go back to calls I. There's a question that I've heard asked sort of in social circles network several times this week that I wanted to bring to the two of you as we head into the fourth of July weekend, people are beginning I. Hear more and more to talk about whether or not they can do. What sort of called expanding their family bubble may be having one or or two families either different households within their own family, or maybe one other household that they begin to see on a more regular basis, so the two questions is. Can that be safe to do and if people are doing that? Let's say they're staying outside. What are the social distancing? Is Social distancing necessary? In that case? I'm just hearing a lot of questions about how families begin to come together. In where we are. We are social beings at our core, and it is somewhat unnatural for us and we I don't speak for anyone else it's. It's definitely natural. For me to think to isolate myself from everyone else for extended periods of time it's demoralizing. It's difficult and I think that it's worth. Health professionals acknowledging that. if there is this idea of expanding your bubble, and what I what I would very much I, would say is if you're going to do that, make sure that your bubble doesn't get expanded beyond what you have control, and so for instance let's say that Dr Pierre. And I want to integrate our families, and we want our families to hang out. What I want is to make sure that I'm pretty much the only family that her family's hanging out with. And Vice Versa that we monitor our symptoms that we've gone through a period of time. We're both of the families have I quarantined away from each other, and really then. We're not WE'RE NOT. Going outside of our little bubble, and expanding out because that that bleed into the into the community. Well I, you saw. You saw your parents and I'm going to see my parents. And who did my parents? All of a sudden? That bubble was no longer a bubble. It's more of just an news and adopted. If people do that and if they stick to the guidelines that you just laid out, do they then need to socially distance within the bubble? I either you or Dr Pierre can answer that part. Yeah I completely agree with Dr Gross I think that if you are, I think it depends on how how much trust you put in the fidelity of that bubble purposes lining out I think that probably in the first few times that you're seeing people it's it's like dating I think in the best of the word you want to know that the people are sharing your sense of risk and your risk tolerance but as you get to know each other as you truly search, integrate their essentially becoming members of your family, and so if things are going well, and you have a great sense of what's happening either side of the equation. I would be of a favor beating favor of relaxing the social distant guidelines that being said in the beginning and I wouldn't start on July the fourth. With doing rapid integration, I, I would say as as you're feeling each other out I think I would still physically just as and see how things go from there. I'd like to grab at least one more call. One, eight, hundred, four, two, three, eight, two, five, five. We have Jodi on the line from Cambridge Jody. What's your question I? Hide my question is about the surface transmission of the virus and things I've read have suggested that there's a real difference between an a symptom attic, person, appre symptomatic person and a symptomatic person and. What the viral load is in their body, and how likely it is for an asymmetric person to transmit this via surface. And Ran. Contact tracing etc, are we going to be able to? Control that surfaced transmission. Great Question Dr Pierre and broke us. We have about two minutes left. So let me see if I can get a brief answer from one of you to jody. Hundred one. Yeah, you can take that so I yeah I, really great question. I'm going to answer the questions. We didn't ask I. which is not I WANNA? Make sure people know that even if you're eastern tonight or pre-symptomatic, even if your viral load is low, there have certainly been many cases reported of people transmitting from. From person to read that being said in terms of surface contamination, even though it is a concern of ours, surfacing in general contributes to a less of an amount of COVID, nineteen infections in general and so I don't know whether we know enough about pre-symptomatic Isam. Dramatic contribution to that. We knew that the viral loads can candy lower, but not always off not always. Then, those who are symptomatic so I would say that it is probably less. Less concerned, but it is still tangible in presence, and so I think we would treat anyone. as potentially infectious person regarded regardless of whether they have symptoms or not. All right well, we are leaving a Lotta calls unanswered here, so Santos in Brighton for example or peer in Leominster. I'm sorry we didn't get to your calls today. We will do this again. We will give you more opportunities to call and ask our doctors like Dr. Cassandra peer the Acting Hospital epidemiologist, medical director of Public Health Programs and infectious diseases physician at Boston Medical Center. Thank you Dr Pierre. It'd be here to Hannah. and Dr Joshua Baroque infectious diseases physician assistant professor of medicine at the Boston medical. Center be you, thank you Dr, brokers. I really appreciate it. Or the pleasure thank you. Let's mix ourselves. Drink normally when we have Lonnie Newton newburn owner of the Boston. Shaker at craft cocktail supply store in Summerville on the show. He brings his signature cocktail. Shaker, the Tin Tin Boston Shakur and we use it to make up some drinks in studio three, but today we are mixing two drinks, the old fashioned way and glass learning to different mixing techniques and I'm GonNa Attempt to make these two classic cocktails. With Lonnie in my home. Studio Lonnie Welcome back to Radio Boston. Thank you could be on the air. And with Lani Newburn is Anthony. Mata he might Leschi's me. Anthony He's been a cocktail consultant at the Boston Shaker for six years. Barton's at the Cuban inspired restaurant Mariella in downtown Boston welcome back to you to Anthony. John Unless! You're on the area. So Lonnie. How's business? Business Good the Boston Shaker has always been here to help. Folks make better cocktails at home, and now that we have a nation at home we've been helping everybody kinda get in high gear answering their drink questions answering emails online, and basically making sure people get the right tools ingredients of throughout his pandemic. Anti how about you I know? Mario had been closed only just reopened just for dining. How is that going and have you been? So. That's going well. Merrill's open Tuesday, through Saturday for dinner and they're doing a takeout dinner as well. I personally am not back behind the bar there yet, but hopefully when things start to open up a bit more, but I have been spending a lot of time at the Boston Shaker just kind of helping with everything we need here. Together and all that so. Doing my best today to stay surrounded by cocktails. All right and Lonnie. We're doing a couple of cocktails for the fourth of July today. Is that right? That's right. Yeah we got to. Summer so go ahead, yeah! Do. You have got to delicious Somerset. I These are GONNA. Be Great for fourth July or any kind of porch gathering as people can hang out outside. They are easy to make both in the built in the glass, so we don't have a shaking tool a Boston Shaker here. We're just GONNA. Make them in the glass. They're gonNA. Be served in, and they're pretty simple. Each have one spirit and just fresh ingredients. Stay home or Jonah the only thing you really need to prep here as they're both Gonna feature crushed ice, which is super funding bills, but just takes a little bit of prep beforehand, so it's an easy. Relief this get Louis bag or a ice, crushing bag and a mallet or a rolling pin, and just put some ice in there and give it across, and that way you'll have some nice. cracked is to put in the glasses, so that's the only thing to do. Yeah I. Don't know if you heard my ice just there. I had a good time with the hammer earlier. Get. The stress out and again. It's a crazy making home. Yeah, it sounds gotTA crush on their. Avenue you are the sorry. So Anti Your hito master. I! Hear, you're going to help us. Make a MO- hito today. Is that right? Absolutely. Yeah, one of the things I have a lot of experience in especially through Marielle because it's a cuban-inspired restaurant, the beverage director. Sebastian Kanye really had has helped us perfect the art of the Mojo. The recipe I'm using today is from actually using a recipe from a book that we have in the shop called spirits of Latin America, and that's by IV mix She is an award-winning. And owns an award-winning bar in new. York called lay under. and she's also the CO founder of Speed Rak which is a bartending competition that is. It brings awareness to breast, cancer and research, so it's it's a good fund for that, and they actually do come to Boston every year, and it's one of the best events of the year, so keep an ear out for speed rack when that comes back. But, that's the rest causing here for the Mojo great i WanNa make sure we have time to make both of these drinks and we're on a hard clock today, so let's jump right in Anthony. Let's make this drink all right first up the one of the most important ingredients here just a few things for the Mojo. You're going to start with some very freshman. Take your mentally recipe here. It says about eight to ten minute leaves, but for the most flavor you can put a little bit more in I like to be fairly liberal with them in for the most does so I at your mid leaves into your. Tall, glass! After the mint is in their. Renner take three quarters of an ounce of simple syrup, simple easy to make worth making at home. You can find recipes online easily. Once, you're and simple. Syrup are the glass. Now Grab Your Mudler or if you don't have a Mudler, you can use a spoon for this as well. While you still like from a mortar and Pestle, sure absolutely if you can reach the bottom of the glass with your Minton simple syrup. Go ahead. You, WanNa, give those crests. Don't WanNa tear the leaves up, but just make sure you're expressing all that nice aromatic matic oil from them it leads. You laugh for five or ten seconds because everything together. Alright. Once. You've modeled your mid and simple syrup. Ready for the next one. Yep? All right now. We're GONNA. Add three quarters of an ounce of squeezed lime juice. Always using ingredient skills. You'll get the best flavor. Okay. And if you don't. Can you still have a good Mo- Hito, if you can't use fresh squeezed lime juice. You can, but ten times out of ten would recommend fresh squeezed. All, right? That's pretty serious. It does make it makes the world difference having fresh citrus. now you're live juice in their next two ounces of white rum. The Rim amusing here tonight is privateers from and they're from Ipswich Mass Massachusetts has a long history and rum. Distillation and privateer. Make some of the best stuff out there, so you can certainly find it here in mass Check them out. And I know you guys always bring local spirits when you come to teach us about cocktails. Yeah, we've been partnered with private here for a long time. All right. Now that all your ingredients are in there. It's GonNa take some crushed ice. Probably hear me wait here. Earlier glass about halfway up with crushed ice. Now give that a good little mix. You can use your barth, Dune or stick something to incorporate all those ingredients that you have so far. Right I'm using the long end of a spaghetti spoon. Perfect. All right about invasion. All right now that everything's mixed. Just GonNa add a little bit of Soda Water. Okay. And Club Soda Right I know some people get confused on the difference between that and tonic. We are talking club. Soda Right Club. Sodas Seltzer Soda Water as long as it's just carbonated water without Labor. That's what you're looking for here. All right and listeners. We have these recipes for today on our website at Radio Boston Dot Org all right. I've got it all in there anthony. All right now that you've added some Soda Water, we're just gonNA, top glass off with a little bit more crushed ice. Make sure all the way up to the tough YEP. Done. And now it's time to garnish further garnish. You just want to get a nice McKay. Get a good handful of Mid sprigs with the stems attached. If you can laugh at your hand a little bit. That'll wake up the mid. You'll even be able to start smelling that air matic midnight oil coming out. I don't think I'd be doing on its slapping today Anthony. It's your own round of applause for making. Boy Does bring a nice aroma to the whole thing, doesn't it? Yeah really wakes up so when you take that first step you're going to get. That Nice knows full of. Freshman followed by a delicious Mojo I, and it's as simple as that. I think it's time. That's fantastic now. I was Hito Fan until I went to Havana for the first time. And the he does. There were incredible and I have loved him ever. Since this is fantastic, you get that that aroma of mint, and then you get all the flavor and it's not overpowering at all. Right. It's really kind of simply built, but it's all about kind of the expression of all the fresh ingredients. So when you can really taste all those flavors. It has prepared the right way. It's an easy to make cocktail. That will really kind of change the way you think about the money though. Excellent now I hate to rush us, but we've got five minutes left, and I want to make sure can get this swindling drink done to Salani. Let's move our way through this because i. want our listeners to hear the swizzle recipe well. Let's do it. Yeah, the next one is a swizzle style cocktail. swizzle is a drink that usually has. A lot of crushed ice in a tall glass kind of a high ball, and also has bright spirits and syrups and fresh citrus so again, a citrus forward bright drink like a Mojo where you in one from easy Tiki. That's a new book by Khloe and she's a senior editor of Punch magazine Super Passionate about bringing tico tease a to the home bar, and making it more approachable, and that's certainly what we're about at the Boston Shaker. So the drink we have for the SWIZZLE is the third wave swizzle. It comes for Ryan Lots. WHO's the bar manager at SHORELEAVE DOWN IN BOSTON? And that's one of our favorite tropical tiki bars, so the third wave will swizzle has. Three ups and a spirit. We have Ginger Syrup. Honey stir up fresh lemon juice, and then we'll use it a local GIN and this one also uses a little bit of coal concentrate. If you WANNA, make a little twist for it so again I have my glass right in front of me, my tall high-ball or swizzle glass, knowing to add all my directly to that glass, so starting with. Yeah I was Gonna add them all. And then we're at the top with ice and we'll give a little swizzle. So. Yeah you can go online, so we're GONNA. Do the Ginger Syrup I and we're using practice standard. There are delicious crafter maker out of Washington DC so we have a cord around that I'm just measuring with my jigger rounds. I've got a cold brew concentrate just a little can of cold over here. It's nice to just add the half ounce to give this thing a little more depth than flavor so I'm doing a half ounce Cobra, coffee. To sweetness, we have a three quarters of a honey. Stir up and again. This is just raw honey that we've added some water to make a one to one or an easy to work with honey syrup. And then finally the citrus or the last non alcoholic ingredient is the lemon juice. We're GONNA have the citrus and we're do three quarters of an ounce of lemon juice as well. Site the all in. Yeah, and our final thing is the spirit to make this thing a little more potent. We're using the bullyboy estate agent. And this is a botanical used from a the the estate or the family farm of the boy owners, and this is at a Roxbury Massachusetts so now we're GONNA have to ounces final ingredients the two ounces. Of Gin and the glass, so you should have seen their harmful color as that right of Alex. Color solent! That's what I see I'm glad sounds like you're right on park. We got the GIN lemon honey, a little bit of cold brew, and Ginger in there now we're gonNA take our crushed ice and we're just gonNa build a glass completely full. With crushed that we're going to top it all the way. And that way we have cover all his ingredient. Make a big. almost A. Crop was Tiki sal drink. Right. On your. Excellent! Yeah, so now you have your ingredients. Crush the dice. For the SWIZZLE component. It's a style, but it's also a tool we use. Something called the swizzle stick, which is originally Caribbean tree that grew. In a five pattern, but it's basically merge blender. Emmanuel Immersion blender. You'RE GONNA take to stick between your hands and kind of like you're starting to fire with a twig. You're gonNA roll it through your hands and Kinda swizzle back and forth quickly in the ingredients. If you don't have struggled sake, you can use this Kuhn. Chopstick or Something allows you to go up and down through the ice. Because your goal here is Denali mix everything together you, WanNa make a nice and cold. In the end you want to add dilution or a little bit of water, but this is going to make this a nice long sipping summer cocktail to has on the porch. Minute left so I'm GONNA. Sneak ahead and SIP. Is that okay? Yeah, you're John. Swizzle it you can garnished with lemon peel and thing, but basically your drinks ready to go into the glass. Oh it's the perfect of kind of tart and sweet and gingery. It's fantastic. Excellent so that's Lonnie Newburn the owner and operator of the Boston Shaker which is the craft cocktail supply store in Summerville Lonnie thanks for being with us of course, thanks again. And Anthony Ma! He's been a cocktail consultant at the Boston Shaker for six years in bartends, the Cuban inspired restaurant Mary Downtown Boston thanks Anthony. They Jonah! These are fabulous triumph. You can find our rest. The recipes on our website at Radio Boston Dot Org. Every fourth of July, half a million people or more descend on Boston to hear this. But the Boston pops won't be playing their traditional fireworks spectacular at the hat show this year instead it'll be held virtually in here to talk more about that is. The conductor of the Boston POPs Orchestra Keith Lockhart Keith Welcome back to Radio Boston. Thank you Jalen thanks for having me. So Keith! You won't be conducting outside on the esplanade this year. Where will you be? Crying into my beer somewhere I suppose. It's. I'm going to spend of course the holiday with my family another my kids are a little bit older i. actually spend the holiday within these last couple of years been all up to stay awake through the live concert down at the hatch Shell. Going to spend some properly socially distance backyard time with some close friends, and I hopefully. If everybody else's into, it will watch the show during that period of times can be hard to watch the show. It's really. It's. been whole lot of disappointments, large and small, especially for performing artists over these last three or four months, because our voices have been silenced we we can't do what it is. We do which is bring people together in community for you know. A shared emotional experience the fourth of July is the biggest most prominent of of those moments that having done twenty, five, straight fourth of July's in Boston, and having worked for several years before that orchestras. I don't. I never had a fourth of July off for thirty years out of doing by. If I can take suggestions from the audience, that would be great. I do. I know no kidding. I watched the to you guys. I do want to ask you. Is there anything that's possible this year because it's virtual worlds that hasn't been in the past with the spectacular. Well it's a really interesting question you know the, even though we only announced it relatively short time ago, we've pretty much been thinking. Since the end of March didn't take a genius to figure out that we may have trouble with life for alive half-million person that in the current situation and were thinking about we. We need to stay in that place I mean for so many people their understanding of the way they celebrate the holidays. The Austin boxes in the center of that, and so we want to go put a show on. We knew we had lots of great material from previous years of, but we also didn't WanNa just raw rerun. It's wanting thing to do a retrospective, but we're in such a unique time I mean not just in terms of the pandemic that is shut so many things down on a worldwide scale, but also with the the recent. The recent unrest about About you know uncovering a very obvious and ongoing of racial justice in this country, all those things need to be conceptualized I. Mean we've always felt that? The concert was not just a list together. Ever every July fourth and go Rah Rah, but it was not only a celebration, but it was also an honest look at what we still needed to commit ourselves to to achieve this dream. This called America. Keith I want to stay on that theme from and I want to play some of performance from last year that I. Understand will be featured in this year spectacular. This is Grammy Award winning, Americana Artist Rianne and gins, performing her song, she's got you. Do. So the world of classical music has long been accused of being unwelcoming to black artists Giddens. Herself has been frank about racism. She's experienced in her career and in the very roots of music she performs. How do you see the role of your institution in tackling systemic racism? I know the POPs has been clear. One of the messages of this year's spectacular is to be. Racism. Yes well as as you know, I think I I think. Everyone at least those of us who are trying to do the right thing at our well-meaning in our attempts in the performing arts this is caused everybody to take a long hard look at what it is. They do what who gets who gets featured. who gets shoved to the side? How the history of of music guess ridden and our part in playing in that Is An amazing, amazing individual and has. Done so much to. If you will set the record straight the concerts, she has done with us over these last couple of years involved basically telling the actual story of American folk music, and how it had often been co-opted. By by the people in power to be different from what it actually was we were. Very. Committed when we started. Putting the show together, which was long before the events of the last three or four weeks we started talking about what we put on this program in April. We really wanted a incredibly diverse cast of artists I mean the the ethnic makeup of the fourth of July has always tried to reflect the back. They were playing for our widest and most diverse audience and. And I'm proud to say looking at the lineup route twenty twenty is that we had for probably the first time. A majority minority, set of headliners of we with which is which is really wonderful, because at the end of the day, the POPs is always gone in more different directions than the traditional classical is King Street hemmed, and we need to reflect. So I hosted a WBZ virtual town hall this week, and one of the guests was Matthew Teitelbaum the director of the Museum of Fine Arts and we were talking about the role that are cultural institutions play in our cities life. Here's what he said about how he's trying to change his institution. After middle schoolers encountered racism while on a tour there, we also want to make sure that we. We become an institution in which the voices of our community are heard heard that we are a platform in a reciprocal relationship where they can see themselves understand themselves and be heard. It has to change, and it has to change because when that starts to change belonging starts to change, and we're belonging starts to change. You are part of Boston and you are changing the way Boston understands itself. When I heard that I found myself thinking about this conversation, we were going to have to. Because you are the head of another significant cultural institution in our city. What are your reflections? A reactions on kind of his thoughts there. Well Beautifully put for one thing and you know the proof is in how all of us. The largest institutions respond to the moment, and and and go further I think you know we need to start looking at things it's it's. It's always been easy in some ways to say you know. Music in the classical music is is in many ways of a great meritocracy. We tried very very hard than when we let people into the Boston symphony and the Boston Boston is to be to only pick the best people, no matter what background they come from, but when we look at. The chance of minority voices to be heard compositional for instance. The, you know. We we have to do better. We have to look at our community and constantly. How's the question? Are we in any way reflective of the community whom we asked to listen to us? Keith let's talk about the holiday itself. We think we're looking at the fourth differently this year. I, as we've just been talking about our country's increasing racial awareness means we recognize that the date didn't mean independence for a huge segment of our population, but we're also at a time when symbols of patriotism are becoming politicized the flag for example. Do. You feel that in preparing for this celebration. And how does it affect both how we should prepare or celebrate the fourth, and also how people experience it? Do you think? Well well, you're you're right. I mean the problem you know. Everything has been has been put into question. You're right. It's easy to celebrate July fourth seventeen seventy six, until you realize that a large portion of the people living in the country were not affected by the Declaration of Independence, and even you know even the. Over fifty percent, or over the female population of the country didn't get the vote told well over one hundred years over that and did not have one of the very basic rights that we consider part of being. Part, of! Free Democracy. I think We've always been very careful POPs I think this year in particular to make sure that this was not just a `nother route. Wrap yourself in the flag sort of moment that there are things that we can celebrate commonalities that we can celebrate their accomplishments. We can celebrate, but also of the acknowledgement each year that. That what we celebrate as being America. Is Not always in actuality what? We say that it is and that. Fourth of July more than just being patting ourselves on the back is a recommitment for everybody there to look at the problems confronting our country and be brave enough to confront them. I I think of America as as an ideal. Is it reachable? Ideal perhaps certainly is reachable better than we've managed to do so in the last two hundred thirty years. So key part of the reason we're having this conversation is that we're in a pandemic? It's changing how we're doing everything and I wonder. Are you rethinking? What gathering in togetherness is GonNa mean for live music in the future and in the long run? Well what they say. Is that I've you know? I've even though I have a couple of. Young kids at home, and so I get to dive into spending time with them and that's that's wonderful. Certainly think I've spent more time in the last four months with them. That spent their entire lives two days before that because of the nature of conducting career. But One thing that I when I have my own reflective moments in all of us who loved the arts and are committed to these great institutions that have been where they have lived and gone out into the community for so many years have been thinking about what the Rebecca might look at like, but as you know this scenario, shipped under almost on a daily basis, so we've been. We've been You know speculating if things are like this, how can we bring music to be able? One day I can tell you. Is that the next time I get to? Step onto a stage and look at the people audience and say we'd like to give this to. We'd like to share this with you. I will never take this job for granted again. I'll never take my role as a performer for granted again I mean. I love what I do feel very blessed and very fortunate, but everybody's job feels like a job sometimes. I can't imagine never. I can't imagine ever being not grateful. For the the privilege of steady out there on stage. And that's Keith Lockhart. Conductor of the Boston pops orchestra. You Watch this year's July fourth fireworks spectacular called a Boston pops to our heroes on W. H.. H. Channel seven or Bloomberg TV and radio starting at eight PM Keith. Good luck on Fourth of July. Thanks so much for joining. US, thank you my pleasure. And we'll go out today on the. Boston pops playing John. Williams's summon. The heroes part of the recent virtual performance dedicated to frontline workers. and. That's our show for today Radio Boston is produced by Jamie Bologna, so we Mitchell Chris Citric Paris Allston and Walter men Tim Scott is our technical director with engineering today by Glenn Alexander our Executive. Producer is attached hoppy and I'm Tian during. Thanks for listening today. Join US again tomorrow, more Radio Boston.

Boston Dr Cassandra Pierre Boston Shaker WanNa Anthony Boston Medical Center Keith Lockhart US Boston University School of Me Radio Boston Dot Org Radio Boston Massachusetts director assistant professor of medicin Lonnie Jonah Massachusetts Mitchell Chris Citric Paris Al Charlie Baker Commonwealth
Special Hour: A Year Of Resilience And Adaptation For Boston's Arts Scene

Radio Boston

48:59 min | 4 months ago

Special Hour: A Year Of Resilience And Adaptation For Boston's Arts Scene

"This is a special edition of radio. Boston i'm tci during very christmas. If you're celebrating today and we hope you are safe and happy. Twenty twentieth forced many of us to get creative in new and sometimes unexpected ways. We've adapted our traditions routines hobbies started some new ones. We saw kitchen creativity with sour dough. Starters and pickling supplies in high demand. Travis grillo owner of boston based guerrillas. Pickles says he sees the appeal of experimenting. The time can can be helpful for long days and days that we have ahead so something that keeping busy but also if you have a family with a good way to bring the family together and everybody d. interactive and laugh. We watched a night at the opera. Turn into many nights at home watching performances concerts and shows on devices boston. Playwrights like melinda lopez crafted audio. Only place that at the moment. We're in a moment where were time is operating in such a strange way right. We feel so stuck in the moment that days go by. We don't know what day it is and we're also constantly projecting ourselves into the after bright. But what's interesting about. These plays is the past. The future and the present come together and we eased into sweatpants for work and fashion statements on our faces. My faith math is a pattern. That a dog whistle to Fans of the band fish ph. And i'll be running around the store and the meat guy at the guy at whole foods will be like. Oh hey you know. They had to postpone summer tour over that that was one of our radio. Boston collars john from newton. So let's spend this christmas exploring the resilience and adaptation of boston's culture and art scene. Begin with a children's choir. Those are the voices of elementary school age. Kids in handling hayden. Society's new voices choir who season ended in september now of course in this pandemic year. They couldn't sing together but they did find a new way to collaborate radio boston's zoe. Mitchell went to find out more. When conductor nerd villani was faced with running acquire of twenty two elementary school kids from all over greater boston remotely on zoom during a pandemic. She was unfazed. I have this idea no matter. The what is the distance we can sync together and she was thinking bigger than the distance between lynn and allston in a way not were together with another fire in a thinking with my friends in my country colombia. Why not work together. Villani is the conductor for handel and haydn. Society's new voices choir. She decided the choir. Summer season and final concert would be a joint production with another choir. Nearly three thousand miles away in her hometown by john columbia we give both choirs paternity to explore the other language. I john had tougher. Stay at home. Orders than massachusetts to limit the spread of the coronavirus so valenti's to friends maria teresa both days and philippa astrada. We're facing the exact same challenges running the children's choir in this time we dipped people are saying saying side. You've some happiness infill. Not alone inside. We share something we stay alive and make newsy for gillette. Dove alaska dion a mother of two and lynn. The program was a godsend. It was really hard for me. Because i would not go. Anywhere on vacation was scanned so so when i list the email i'm like oh guys acquire you wanna say they all say here but it is practically impossible for twenty two plus people to sing together in any language on zoom villani says a lot of the work was done by children and their families independently. Gideon's daughter nine year old. Bolivia bernice gideon says. She preferred the at home innovations. At first i thought it was going to be really hard but then it was really easy. 'cause adult like seeing in front of people so when you have a camera and then you send it to them. I thought it was my is here instead of singing in front of people seven year old to know she in amata from allston loved the opportunity to learn a new language. He i always exceed each week. Villani would send a portion of one song for the kids to learn spanish and they would record themselves performing it and send it back to her. The choir in columbia did the same but with english to know. She said it wasn't always easy kind of difficult. What was kind of difficult about it. The like the parral she nation villani says. This challenge was something everyone had to grapple with. We have the same challenge to learn because they have the challenge for english. A here we have challenge for the spanish in the rhythms indie. End to know. She says he took to the language in a big way learning entire compositions in spanish and he practiced hard ball by yakuza. Me their star does. Your was the laws those for the kids. It was also a chance to make new friends while stuck at home to know. She showed me letters he received from his new friends. In columbia zeh e little dumpling. The has vegetables in cold implement because they also sometimes desk to. Here's what olivia learned. I learned that it has aquino's the and the people speak spin little brother. Carter gavin giddy own age. Seven was nervous about connecting with kids faraway together. How many people. And i don't know if i could make new friends at schools other flynn's from somewhere different but carter found that in the end it wasn't intimidating and he learned something funny is good holiday made and everybody should be nice to each other for conductor villani. That lesson is what this experiment was ultimately about really. We don't have difference between the kids. Here indicates there they have many different opportunities by they decide to learn to enjoy to make mielke not change she the same but something does change. Some kind of magic happens when you put kids together on a project. Oh i remember that song to know she was practicing. Oh boy that story from radio boston's so we mitchell from a children's choir to perhaps the city's most iconic orchestra the boston pops conductor keith. Lockhart marked his fifth year with the pops in twenty twenty not as they might have liked however in front of a live audience this year. The pops season was cancelled due to the pandemic but the biggest tradition did continue. Virtually the pops fourth of july fireworks spectacular. Wockhardt told us it was important that that's eleboration. Go on especially during such a tough year. There have been a whole lot of disappointments march small especially in performing our this over these last three or four months because our voices have been silenced. We we can't do what it is. We do which is bring people together and community for a shared. Emotional experience keith. Lockhart joined us in july to talk about how the boston pops and the larger performing arts community where adapting to the trials of twenty we started with how celebrations like the fireworks spectacular move forward. We're such a unique time not just in terms of the pandemic that is shut so many things down on a worldwide scale but with the recent unrest about about you know uncovering a very obvious and ongoing of racial injustice in this country. Things need to be contextualised. I mean we've always felt that the concert was of not only A celebration by was also an honest. Look at what we still needed to commit ourselves to achieve this dream. This called america keith. I wanna stay on that theme from an and i want to play some of performance from last year. This is grammy award winning americana artist. Rianne giddens performing her song. She's got you. The world of classical music has long been accused of being unwelcoming. The black artists gidon herself has been frank about racism. She's experienced in her career and in the very roots of the music she performs. How do you see the role of your institution in tackling systemic racism. I know you know the pops has been clear. One of the messages of this year's spectacular is to be confronting racism. I think everyone at least those of us who are trying to do the right thing and are well-meaning our attempts in the performing arts This caused everybody to take a long hard. Look at what it is. They do What Who gets who gets featured who gets shoved to the side How the history of music guests ridden in our part in playing in that are rianne is an amazing amazing individual and has Done so much to if you will set the record straight the concert. She has done with us over these last couple of years involved. Basically telling the actual story of american folk music and how it had often been co-opted by the people in power to be different from what it actually was. We started talking about what we put on this program in april and we really wanted a incredibly diverse cast of artists. I mean the i think. The makeup of the fourth of july has always tried to reflect the fact that we're playing for our widest most diverse audience. And i'm proud to say looking at the lineup. For twenty twenty is that we had for probably the first time a majority minority said headliners which is really wonderful. Because at the end of the day the pops is always going in more different directions and the traditional classical is kid mystery and we need to reflect that so i hosted a wbz virtual town hall and one of the guests was matthew teitelbaum the director of museum of fine arts and we were talking about the role that are cultural institutions play in our cities life. Here's what he said about how he's trying to change his institution after middle schoolers encountered racism while on a tour there. We also want to make sure that we become an institution in which the voices of our community are heard that we are platform in a reciprocal relationship where they can see themselves. Understand themselves and be heard it has to change and it has to change because when that starts to change belonging star search change and we're belonging starts to change. You are part of boston and you are changing the way boston understands itself. When i heard that i found myself thinking about this conversation we were going to have to because you are the head of another significant cultural institution in our city. What are your reflections reactions on. I'm kind of his thoughts there. Well as beautifully put for one thing and you know the proof is in how all of us the largest institutions respond to the moment and go further. I think we need to start looking at things. It's always been easy in some ways to say you know. Music in classical music is is in many ways of a great barrier talk rec- we try very very hard and when we let people into the boston symphony and of boston. Posturings is to be only pick the best people. No matter what background they they come from but when we look at The chance of minority voices to be heard. composition for instance The you know we. We have to do better. We have to look at our community and constantly asks the question. Are we in any way reflective of the community whom we asked to listen to us so keith. Part of the reason we're having this conversation is that we're in a pandemic it's changing how we're doing everything and i wonder are you rethinking. What gathering togetherness is gonna mean for live music in the future and in the long run but one thing i'll say is that I've you know. I've even though i have a couple of young kids at home and so i get to dive into spending time with them. And that's that's wonderful. But one thing that i when i have my own reflected moments Us who who loved the arts and are committed to he's great institutions that have been where they have lived and gone out into the community for so many years have been thinking about What the rebecca might look like as you know the scenario shipped under us and almost on a daily basis. So we've been we've been Speculating if things are like this. How can we bring music people. One day i can tell you that The next time i get to step onto a stage and look at the people out in the audience and say we'd like to give this to. You would like to share this with you. I will never take this job for granted again. All never take my roll performer for granted. Again i mean. I love what i do. I feel very blessed very fortunate. But everybody's job feels like a job. Sometimes i can't imagine never. I can't imagine ever being not grateful for the privilege of stat out there on stage. That's keith lockhart. Conductor of the boston pops. Twenty twenty marked lack arts twenty fifth year with the orchestra. We can't imagine the boston pops will ever go away. We'll be back and onstage again. When this pandemic is over but what about small local music venues they are such an important part of our cultural fabric and deeply vulnerable to the economic impacts of this pandemic like the rock club. Great scott and austin or institutions like walis cafe jazz club in the south end. This is from one of these jam sessions and we miss this so much back. In september we spoke with frank. Poindexter the general manager of wallis cafe and jazz club and carl levin a former booker for great scott. Who's working to resurrect the now closed. Venue at a new location in allston both are dedicated to keeping their venues ally for when they can eventually be live again when we talked one. Exchange with our callers made clear. Just how important their missions are. We start with that. Call robert from lexington. My girlfriend and i'd be mon. The loss of this and the effect on the businesses that will never be in again We've become friends with a number of musicians over the years and it's horrible for their livelihood. It's very unfortunate. Thanks to have one more call there. Let's add omar from quincy omar. Go head i just happened to hear you guys on the air. Carl omar thousand thousand perennials And to basically just wanted to get the car. Great scott has been institutions in. Meet all of our friends lives for the past several years and the thought of losing it is fairly upsetting and I've spent so much time. There and carl's been a great host. Had my bands play there. And i wanna give a shout to wallace as well. Who were. I've also have so much some. So many great experiences led great call. Thanks omar thanks to both those. And i'll turn back to each of you. Carl jump in. Well yeah. I mean i guess that's the thing is that i mean his much as what we're facing altogether right now as as as businesses and the industry It's it's it's impossible to not keep at least one if not both is if not all of the attention on what's being lost by the facts that but by the fact that Artists and musicians and and the entire the artistic community are are losing these spaces. And i don't even know that it wasn't going to happen without cove it. I mean the way things the way things are so expensive in the way that landlords treat artistic faces and the way neighborhoods Tweet artistic spaces is has been something. That's been a problem. As i mean it has been going on anyway and everything that's happening about. This right now is exacerbating it. I mean i. My heart breaks for all of the artists musicians. Who can't don't have a place to be able to go out and get in front of people that and get that visceral experience of connecting with people who enjoy what they're doing great and let's get one west thought on that from you frank. Hit the nail on the head. See most people here and we have a special musical ecosystem here. We have some of the. Most prestigious schools came musicians. We got musicians that not just local musicians that at all this from chri across the planet or going to school to be trained eight hundred seventy seven eighty percent of them are coming here and so saying that you know the loss of these venues you know where the places that help students there they go to these places like us and they apply. They build their networks. That leads to what's going to happen. Ten of five years down the road. When they're you know musical directors working for the record labels the ripple effect. Like karl said in so we have to be ecosystem because it goes beyond just what we see here. Okay what you just think or a local thing. It's more than local it's international. That's frank poindexter. The general manager of walis cafe and jazz club and carl levin a former booker for great scott. Who's working to resurrect the now closed. Venue at a new location in austin and a portion of our conversation from september blue. Stay with us coming up. A museum exhibition from twenty twenty that filled a centuries long gap in boston's art. History i'm cnn. During this is a special christmas day edition of radio boston. What i'm back to a special edition of radio. Boston antezana during it's christmas day and we are bringing you the arts and culture of boston. Their survival adaptation and the special joy they offer during this whiplash of a year. Major boston museums had to close their doors in march many did reopen over the summer with reduced capacity but cities in towns like boston closed. Some of them again earlier this month their brief reopening really brought home for us that there is nothing quite like seeing art in person. It's not only joy at brings our helps us put our history in context this year. The isabella stewart gardner museum put the work of john singer. Sargent firmly in the context of our nation's history on race their exhibit boston's apollo explored the story behind a singer. Sargent mural at another institution the museum of fine arts singer. Sargent's apollo and the muses grace's the mfa's rotunda completed in nineteen twenty one. It portrays white gods and goddesses. Dancing playing music turns out. The primary model for the figures was a black man isabella. Stewart gardner museum curators net. Silver made the discovery i. I came across Folder of drawings. In the gardner storage facility. Which i had never seen before they were ten works on paper signed by john singer. Sargent and i thought how have i not seen these before. As i looked at these drawings i realized that they were studies for the murals that sergeant had done next door at the museum of fine arts but the man in the drawings was black and all the figures on the ceiling were white. And i thought what's going on here. I want to know more about this man. And his role in the creation of one of boston's great public works of art that led to a three year long effort to tell the story of the man in the drawings. Thomas mckellar thomas. Mckellar was a roxbury resident. He was a veteran. He left wilmington north carolina in his teens in the wake of devastating racial violence. There were very few opportunities for young black men in wilmington anymore so he came to boston at the very least looking for new opportunities by the nineteen teens. He's settled here in boston. Working as a bellhop at the hotel vendome and it's three years later in one thousand nine. Sixteen that john singer sargent meets him in the elevator of that hotel and invites him to come to his studio and model for the commission that he's just received from the museum of fine arts. The relationship between the man lasted eight years and singer. Sargent would specifically request to work with mckellar. An each visit to boston. Mckellar also served as the model for a singer. Sargent mural at harvard's widener library and a portrait of harvard president. Abbott lawrence lowell. In each work his black body is transformed into white figures here silver again so he becomes really the unsung hero of public artworks. And it's only today that he's finally getting the credit for what he did and his compensation was nowhere near what singer sargent received. For instance singer sargent was paid forty thousand dollars for the mural at the mfa mckellar only received thirty dollars. The exhibit was put together by silver museum staff and community collaborators. that's artists writers and curator's of color. Who were not on staff at the museum but who directly contributed to the creation and presentation of the exhibit. We visited the exhibit in february and spoke with silver and one of the community collaborators writer and curator theo tyson. We began in front of a tremendous singer. Sargent portrait of thomas keller and i asked tyson about how she felt when she first learned about mccullers existence surprised Certainly surprised to know that one of his best and longest muses was a black man. I was completely blown away as you processed. That was your reaction. I think i might still be processing it The the idea of him being such an integral part of works. That are still so critical. Still critically acclaimed today and to know that he was completely erase. No one had heard of him. People didn't know his story even his family wasn't aware of how important he was to. The arts nat. Why do you think these sketches were preserved in the first place. Well we know that. Sergeant gave these sketches isabella stewart gardner. It was probably around twenty one so right as he was finishing the rotunda at the museum of fine arts and he knew. That gardner had a museum so by giving these sketches to her preserving these works for the public he knew that the public would see them one day. Even if it wasn't in sergeant in gardner's own time. I'm really zeroing in on your term one day because it does make one wonder was he essentially banking on them not being public until one day. It's a great question I don't know the answer to is the honest answer if sergeant gave these to garner in thousand twenty one gardner already had a stroke and she wasn't reinstalling her museum and adding works to the public display in the way that she might have been ten or fifteen years earlier so we have to take that into consideration. Then we have to think about the fact that these were large format drawings of a nude black man and at the time. This might have seemed shocking. So perhaps there was a sense in sergeants. Mind that these were something that the public could handle at that time or perhaps something that he was not ready to share with the public. What is your thought about. This question of whether one day was an on purpose. Move by john singer. Sargent versus releasing those drawings or putting them on display somewhere. At that time. I do feel like in his mind one day. He wanted this to be seen and wanted them to be known the fact that he actually went signed each of them the the scale of the drawings the immaculate of the drawings the fact that he kept him kept them in his studio. There are all of these personal relationships it just to me highlights the intimacy and the connection that he must have had with thomas mckellar not only keeping them but holding them very close to him. It's still shocking now to learn of these and to challenge what the relationship may have been into to look into. Was this more than muse. An artist theo in describing the drawings used the word intimacy yes. We're standing in front of the portrait of thomas mckellar which strikes me is a very intimate portrait. I wonder if you can describe it for our listeners. Wow describing this as it's like trying to find a needle in a haystack. It's it's striking and you know how much time it took the pose that he's an with his neck elongated head back gazing towards the sky arms and shoulders very very strong legs in very awkward positions behind him. You can only assume how many hours he must have sat with sergeant to get this strong. We don't know how many sessions it may have taken. You can see the whisper of angel wings and one of the things that i've noticed about all of the drawings and particularly the portrait as well is there's never a direct gaze from thomas mcculloch to john singer sargent. He was never able to be completely direct about the intimacy that the two of them shared. What do we know about their relationship. This was at the very least an intense relationship. It was a long term relationship over the course of eight years certainly a professional relationship but at the same time. There's no reason to that couldn't have grown into a personal romantic relationship. We now pretty much except that sergeant was gay. We don't know much about thomas mckellar sexuality and i think these drawings and certainly this painting raise that question. It speaks a lot to sergeants. Opinion of thomas mckellar that he kept this portrait of thomas mckellar in his own studio in the artist's studio until he died in one thousand nine hundred twenty five. This was only for him. And for the small circle of friends or family who might have chosen to share it with there are so many power differentials at play in this relationship. I was struck by some information. I saw on the wall coming into the exhibit. That mckellar was born two years after john. Singer sargent painted isabella. Stewart gardner if in fact both men were gay. There's a power differential in that knowledge. And who would be believed in who could speak So there's there's so much going on. That is profoundly uncomfortable. And then i want to unpack. I think i would start by asking. How unusual is it to have an artist use a black model and then paint them white into all of their work. There's it's it's still challenging conversation to unpack today. One of the things that we can say as it was artistic practice. If you have amused or model they are not in control of what the final image is going to be. It says a lot about what mckellar had to offer sergeant. That he wasn't able to find anywhere else. It may sound today very easy for sergeant or for an artist to invite a model into his or her studio but we know at the time that for a white artist it was actually difficult. We know that from saint gaudens. Who created the shaw memorial on boston. Common and we have his account so this is an eighteen ninety s of trying to get black models to pose for the soldiers the civil war soldiers who are depicted in the shaw memorial. And so he. He went out literally went onto the street asked black men. He saw walking by. Come back to the studio with him. He record some of their reactions and they were extreme. The men didn't know him. They thought he might be trying to kidnap them. They might thought he might be trying to perform some sort of medical procedure on them. Many of them just ignored him. Some of them ran away. And i think that really emphasizes the oh is saying that sergeant forged a relationship with thomas mckellar. That allowed that to be possible. I'd love to move spec towards the front of the exhibit where there's a time line that tells us more about the life and history of thomas mckellar and there's also in that room reflections from local artists about the exhibit. The relationship what we now know. So let's go there and let's talk some more so we're standing here in front of a timeline. Called thomas mccullers boston. And it's got some information about his life to so theo. There is something so striking about the fact that for the first time in one hundred. Seventeen years at the gardner museum. There is an exhibit that is dedicated to images of a black man and it is a black man who do use a word. I've heard you use has been erased from the art and in fact his likeness is used to reaffirm an image of godliness. That is white. I don't even know where to go with the irony packed in all of that. Where do we begin there. There are several comments. That sergeant made that were derogatory about mckellar Using just very derogatory terms that are often used for black people but there was still this compulsion for him to he had to have them he had to have mckellar. And it's this idea of the commodification of black bodies. Parceling them out. For whatever is necessary and then throwing away the rest to have thomas mckellar on full display and uplifting him is is golden and i think this is the answer to the question of do we owe thomas mckellar something and we do. We owe him his dignity his integrity and his identity and this exhibition is a huge step in the right direction and giving that to him the we just walked essentially in reverse back through the exhibit when somebody begins here and makes their way through it at the end. What lesson do you want them to have learned or would you want to be on their minds. I want them to think about the consistent. Contributions that black people african americans have made to this country across the board when they look up. They have the idea that black people can be elevated. we should be elevated and we always have been. There are so many people. I'm sure that when they look up at the murals in the mfa it would never crossed their minds that these white gods and goddesses would not have been possible were it not for a black man for either of you. How did working on or did working on this exhibit. Make you rethink. John singer sargent. It definitely made me look at sergeant very differently. My first introduction to him was x the beautiful portrait. The gorgeous black dress that was also quite controversial to have someone that we that we have put on a pedestal as this amazing artist and we can't take that away from him but he was a complicated man and i think this made me look at him differently but then also go back and look at some of his other works very differently. Has he been trying to tell the story. We still haven't discovered. Was this like a little chrome on the way to discovering the true history of john singer sargent and maybe he knew the only way to tell that was through thomas mckellar so it's an researching for boston's apollo in digging more into sergeants past and i'm still looking at him differently and still making discoveries and i hope that doesn't stop. That's our conversation with writer and curator. Theo tyson and isabella stewart gardner. Museum curators net silver to see a picture of the portrait of mckellar in the story visit radio boston dot org stay with us coming up. How music helped americans through another crisis in us history. The great depression during this is radio boston Welcome back to a special christmas day edition of radio boston. I'm tc on during all this hour. We're looking at how arts and culture has been shaped by the pandemic so far we've heard about arts events performances and exhibits that had to be postponed or adapted some of the most widely shared cultural experiences this year movies and television like this one. Remember this guy. Joe exotic otherwise known as king. Gay goncane redneck when a moment. That of course is joe exotic from netflix's tiger king. The shell became a cultural phenomenon. This year tiger king was absurd. It was excessive and the escape many needed at the time. Musician and composer rob kapitolo says. It's not unusual for us to turn to escape. Escapist art in hard times tiger kings popularity reminded him of composer. Cole orders fame during the great depression. You're the top. Your words poetic. This is capital with broadway singers. Sally wolfert and michael winther performing porter song. You're the top. At jordan hall porter was the american composer and songwriter behind early. Mid century popular musicals anything goes and kiss me. Kate during the nineteen thirties. He was incredibly popular. His work was not in tune with many people's experience his music and his lifestyle were extravagant. They were glamorous and over. The top capitalist says porter still resonated with a mass audience. You either in the face of a horrific situation. You either look at it when you try to escape from it. But what. I think is wonderful about cole. Porter is though it might seem because the surface is so glittering and so distant from those gritty realities of the depression as if he were avoiding it beneath that glittering surface all these issues of love loss regret despair so once you get past the glittering surface and the white tie inhales there's all those fundamental human realities that are beneath the surface that make much more than tiger king. We spoke with rob caballo about a show. He taped in boston this year. The took apart classic songs by cole porter and broke down. What makes them so great. He started by explaining. Just why porter was so popular you know. So many of cole porter's most famous songs were written in the middle of the depression. I mean anything goes written in one thousand nine thirty four. I mean the thirties was a fantastic decade. For cole porter though for almost no one else in america but you know it provided a wonderful escape into this world where everybody is beautifully. Dressed has impeccable. Manners speaks in perfect rhymed couplets. You know there was an enormous of people who went to the movies in staggering numbers during the depression. This kind of escape was popular in so many different ways. Miniature golf became hugely popular in the nineteen thirties. That would cole porter offers really. Is this fantastic escape into this wonderful world of a glittering possibility that was somehow on the horizon but not present all right so now in your concerts in your performances you will sort of help us look beneath the curtain or behind the music of song and help us understand what makes it great and i understand. You're going to walk us through the chorus of your the top from one thousand nine hundred four. anything goes. I always ethel merman right who i here in the back of my mind. That sort of your ta perfect. That's the radio thing doesn't work out. I would have sorta let you start to walk us through the magic of that song yet. We know. I think first of all you know if you really want to get a sense of what porter's world was light during the depression. There's this wonderful article written by this new yorker writer margaret. Harriman at the time and she talks about the composition of your the top. She says you're the top was composed quote during his supper at booths. Lutwa when cole. And ms alastair mcintosh entertain themselves by making up a list of superlatives that rind porter consider the song just a trick and thought people would soon be bored by it rather than being bored by it. People joined in and newspapers reported that the game around town in the winter of nineteen thirty. Four thirty five was writing new verses to. You're the top sometimes lewd ones. I mean that's what porter and his social circle were doing in one thousand nine hundred thirty four thirty five at the height of the depression and in fact said this is a. This is a musical six game. Six degrees of kevin bacon bay savviest exam and in fact it was not only him but he would get three hundred parodies a month in the mail from other people who joined and again talk about escape so you just have to get that million before you even start hearing the incredible song itself now to talk about the song itself probably the most famous question that every great songwriter has ever been asked is what comes first the words or the music while. I'm not gonna solve this once and for all the truth is it makes absolutely no difference. It's the combination of the two that counts and often ported. Rhythmic genius is the key. So let's just look at the very beginning of the famous. You're the top and let's build up just the first three words you're the from ordinary degrade in four stages. So let's start with the bad version. That i wrote with your the top three even notes. This is not great. Your thought top now. I haven't changed a note of quarter. All done is changed the rhythm and now it's utterly boring your the top now. Let's make it a little bit better by speeding up just the top and turn it into a syncopation so not your top. But you're the top like this. You're the top it starts to come to life. Yeah alyssa name wiggle in with you. But now even better porter also syncopated. You're off the beat as well. So now it's actually you're the top and suddenly those words come alive just because of the way he said it and one more fantastic thing. That's the key to at all now. You might have noticed that the piano is playing a little leap up before that vocal entrance and that leap up is the essence of. You're the top now. The truth is i've been cheating. I've actually been playing a simple opt. The same notes on bottom and top but poured leaves higher to a fantastic distance up to the top and the harmony under your the top has one great note. Listen closely this is subtle ordinary. Would be this. You'll work the top. But instead of he changes one note to its these tiny changes. That are the difference between gordon great. Why does that feel so different. I mean it literally physically feels different to hear that because this has no tension this is. Oh what's going to come next it's again. It's that tension beneath the socially perfect persona. It all looks lovely on the surface. You're the top and everything being neat and tidy but beneath it. There's always tension now remember. The porter was married for thirty four years to a woman who was once described as the most beautiful woman in the world. It was actually a marriage of convenience and he was a closeted homosexual and so there's so much tension beneath the surface of all the lyrics. Cole porter this is a regular life regular marriage. This is porter porter is a master having leyritz unfold in the perfect pace for the audience to follow. So there's a little filler in the piano after you're the top the piano ghost which the audience time to get ready to hear the woody description that follows. Now here's how puerta works follow closely. We've got three notes for your the top. He keeps those three notes as the core. The first three not what comes next your top become the first three notes of your worth akal lussier. What i call additive construction you keep the three and add more now even in that first phrase you now see how many great choices there are. I'll slow it down. We got the first great leap to distance. We've got the great core that made you shiver under your the top with our double syncopation. We've got our little phil getting us ready. And then we've got our new additive version. The bus seal in five seconds of music. It was so interesting to have you talk about you. Know he's he was popular as an escape right and yet there were all of these difficult things happening underneath and it and it really is interesting. It's like the listener at some visceral level understands it. That's what we're doing here right. So you've got that dissonance in that tension which is what everyone's living through and then you get this little promise of but okay now we're going to have the escapist fun here comes the list and you get both at the same time and in fact what comes next is a perfect example of what you brought him. That's this wonderfully new self deprecating ending to finish the song but if baby i'm the bottom you're the top but what could be a more perfect way to end the song completely taps leading the text in the music then to have the highest note of the song. Be the final note of the song as the singer sings that words. You're the top at the top of the range of the singer and the range of the song in literally is the top but if they be on the bottom you're the top and the wit continues till the final note. He takes that little opening piano. Phil does the exact same notes higher but with different cords underneath law and then instead of simply resolving an ending squarely on the beat and here he delays till the last instant that tension. We're talking about way now done. That's poured and resolution. I feel resolved. 'wow rob when was the first time you found yourself thinking You know you sort of discovered cole porter as one of these musical magicians that you teach us about well. I was writing a book for the last ten years. I was working on a book. That came out in november called listening for america inside the great american songbook from gershwin tucson time and over the ten years each year. I would pick one composer to focus on that year. When i spent on porter was truly discovery for me because i just always thought of the surface of porter and i had no idea how much was going on underneath us for example. I had no idea that in one thousand nine hundred thirty seven. He had this tragic riding accident. That for the last twenty seven years of his life he had thirty operations was crippled and in pain and only stopped writing the day after he finally had to have his leg amputated. I had no idea so. It was really during that year of research when i discovered what was beneath glittering surface and realized how powerful that is and that. That's what really connects us. Because in the end as long as there is love loss yearning and regret there will always be porter your mahatma. That's composer and musician. Rob capital your napoleon brandy and that is our show on this christmas day radio. Boston is produced by jamie bologna zoe. Mitchell chris citric paris. Allston and walter wolfman our engineer. Today's marquees neil are executive producers. Who tash and i'm donna. Dairy thanks for listening. If you're celebrating have merry christmas and join us again on monday for more radio pasta. Matali balloon soon too. But if baby i'm the but if baby bottom your.

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The Sunday Read: 'Rembrandt in the Blood'

The Daily

1:03:43 hr | Last month

The Sunday Read: 'Rembrandt in the Blood'

"We think about the discovery of a lost masterpiece as a once in a lifetime. Kind of thing. I was writing about one such discovery. The first rembrandt to be found in forty two years now in the world of fine art dutch masters are pretty much the pinnacle in the sixteen hundreds the dutch revolutionized art pulling it away from the religious. They painted flowers street scenes. They painted themselves. Probably the greatest of them was rembrandt than ryan. So this newly discovered masterpiece. It was a huge deal and the man who found it was a young art dealer with an amazing story. But as i was doing the reporting on it i started to hear rumors. Apparently a second rembrandt had been found and by the same guy. I'm russell shorter a contributing writer to the new york times magazine. I wrote a story about these rembrandt paintings. And the feud behind them. It's also a story about family and the burden of legacy. The man who discovered these paintings is yon six yon is about as close to art. World royalty as it comes. His family has roots in amsterdam dating practically to its founding. He's actually gone six. The eleventh and the first yon six had his portrait painted by rembrandt. Now most of us. When it comes to goals in life we might think of landing a big job having a house in a family. Yawns obsession was to find a rembrandt one thing. I realized while writing this piece is just how much work goes into identifying an old master painting. There are all sorts of forensic examinations. You can take the painting right down to the canvas you can use. X-rays infrared imagery paint samples are analyzed individual brushstrokes pigments. But no matter how high tech the process in the end there's no such thing as absolute a newly discovered paintings. Identity is still a matter of interpretation. It comes down to human conviction and all perfect right. So here's my story rembrandt in the blood. Red by grover gardner. This was recorded by auden. Autumn is an app. You can download to listen to lots of audio stories from publishers. Such as the new york times the new yorker vanity fair and the atlantic the discovery. That upended yon sixes. Life occurred one day in november. Two thousand sixteen six is a forty year old dutch art dealer based in amsterdam who attracted worldwide attention last year with the news that he had unearthed a previously unknown painting by rembrandt the most revered of dutch masters the first unknown rembrandt to come to light in forty two years the find didn't come about from scouring remote churches or picking through the ethics of european country houses but rather as six described it to me last may while he was going through his mail. He had just taken his to small children to school. Intrude dutch fashion by bicycle. One seated between the handlebars bars and the other end back. The typical weather for the season. Raw wind spitting rain would never deter amsterdammer from mounting his bike and six is routes in the city go about as deep as possible but by the time he arrived at his office he was feeling the effects bader cold water. Cold is the dutch word for the chilly. Dampness of the low countries that seeps into the bones. The antidote to that feeling is encompassed in another word because the league height loosely translated as coziness is the condition people in the netherlands. Strive for in the interiors of their homes. It's often what's being depicted and celebrated in old master canvases from the golden age of the seventeenth century. The era that is sixes specialty warm domestic scenes. Mary companies hoisting tankards still lives of tables laden with food sixers office on the ground floor of a building on the here and hawked one of the city's main canals. The canal that rembrandt himself used to stroll has its share of because the building dates from the early sixteen. Hundreds ancient beams crossed the ceiling. The views out of the windows are of bicyclists racing by and the evocative ever somber surface of the canal reflecting the gabled facades of the buildings on the opposite side. Six made coffee that morning then sat down to a stack of mail. He dispensed with the bills and other annoyances first so as to settle into the catalogs of coming art auctions. One was for a december event at christie's in london. He skimmed it quickly. Almost dismissively it was for the daytime sale which featured lesser objects. The top paintings and sculptures are always reserved for the evening and then. He told me he stopped cold. The slightly miss colored photograph in the catalog was a portrait of a rather dazed looking young. Gentlemen with a lace collar and a proto led zeppelin quaff but i spoke to six was the gaze of the subject whose identity remains unknown. He pierces the image. He said six felt that he had seen the work before. But after tearing through his library in search of it he came to believe it wasn't the actual image that struck him as familiar. But the sum of all the telltale features of an early rembrandt. These include in sixes estimation the humanness of that gays a rounded brush stroke and a willingness to employ different painting styles within the same work. The painting dated from somewhere between sixteen thirty three and sixteen thirty five. The giveaway was the particular type of lace collar which was the height of fashion in that brief span and then quickly went out of style. What especially excited six was not just christie's had failed to see that the painting was most likely from the hand of the master but also that the auction house had labeled it circle of rembrandt. I e from a follower. You see the problem right. He asked me. I was puzzling for the solution to the riddle when he blurted it out. Rembrandt wasn't famous yet in the early sixteen hundreds so there was no circle. I knew right away. Christie's screwed up from their six was a bloodhound on the trail. He learned that the paintings. Providence went back to sir. Richard knee an english merchant of the late. Seventeen hundreds who build a serious art collection which included works of thomas. Gainsborough and john constable. The painting had stayed in the same family for six generations. This fit it made sense that a painting by top tier artist would have attracted a prominent collector. Six was so excited that he jumped on his bike and cycled short distance across central amsterdam to the home of ernst veteran universally renowned as a top authority on rembrandt still breathless. Six thrust a photocopy of the picture at him as befits a person whose opinion is weighted with import. Von deterring typically reacts with reserve on first seeing an inch but he was intrigued. It looked like a rembrandt but it was completely new to me. Thundering told me later six cycled back home and bought a plane ticket. There were a few people in the christie's london showroom when he arrived six told me so he looked at other paintings until they left then made his way to the portrait studied. It and took pictures of it. I was shocked because it had a different appearance in person. He said it had far more depth. Six was particularly drawn to the lace on the collar lace was a signifier of status throughout the seventeenth century. And six believes rembrandt had a signature way of depicting this variety which is called bobbin lace other artists of the period painstakingly executed. Its intricacies in white paint on top of the jacket. Rembrandt did something like the opposite. He i painted the jacket then over it. The collar area in white then used black paint to create the negative spaces in the collar. And where other painters were careful to create repeating patterns in the lacework. Rembrandt wove freestyle design for viewers standing a few inches away from such a painting. The collar appears as the hieroglyphic jumbo. Step back a pace and it coheres six believes. This was one aspect of rembrandt's genius. He realized that a painting copy of a repetitive pattern. Even if it followed the original actually looked official after. He left the christie's showroom six around the corner to an art book shop where he found a corpus of rembrandt paintings the authoritative guide to the entire who fra. He flipped through the works of the sixteen thirty s and stopped when he came to what he was looking for. Rembrandt's portrait of phillips lucas from sixteen. Thirty five the original was conveniently located just across town in the national gallery so he ran over there and before long he was standing in front of it gazing back and forth from the painting to the yemen camera feeling his blood race as a hunch solidified into near certainty. I knew that whoever painted this painted that he said yang six is a tall slim almost apologetically dapper man whose customary expression contains a hint of someone carrying the burden the burden turns out to be his name which is actually yon sixty eleven dating back. Four centuries is aristocratic family has named a first born son yawn in nearly every generation the first don sixth man of art culture and politics was true representative of the dutch golden age. The period in which an explosion of creativity in arts science and commerce vaulted the tiny nation to the forefront of european life and thought that jan six was actually a friend of the great rembrandt van ryan when he decided sometime in the sixteen fifties to have his portrait painted. He asked rembrandt to do the honors. The result is one of the masters must admired works of wondrously brooding. Study of self-aware. Middle aged sophistication done in the hallmark. Rough brush strokes of the later rembrandt. The historian simon shama has called it. The greatest portrait of seventeenth century the first jan six amassed a large collection of paintings sculptures and drawings by a variety of artists. But rembrandt is at the heart of the six collection in addition to the on six portrait which currently holds an insurance valuation of more than four hundred million dollars. There is a full-scale rembrandt oil painting. The first john sixes mother on a weimar along with five drawings and fifty original etchings by the artist as the six collection passed down from one generation to the next it grew to include works by vermeer bruegel halls and rubens as well as the titian and tintoretto along the way Pirates horde of lesser but still historically significant artifacts became attached to it furniture gems medals manuscript closets full of silver venetian. Glassware ivory handled toothbrushes a- diamond ring given to a family member by czar alexander. The first but the paintings were always the raison d'etre collection and over the years. The sixers showed a tendency to follow their progenitor clinician. The collection now holds no fewer than two hundred seventy portraits of family members as the centuries rolled on and other great european family holdings were broken up and museums became the principal repositories for such things. The six collection which remains in the six family home grew in mystique by tradition each generations. John six becomes the caretaker of the collection and the occupant of the house for the last century a rambling fifty six room mansion on the obstacle river in the heart of amsterdam. But the eleven's the art dealer is not that young not yet anyway. His father yon the tenth or as he prefers to be called barren j six fund hillock. Home still reigns the elder six. Who has seventy one is known in cultural circles as both a deeply private man. He declined to be interviewed for this article and a somewhat prickly one nearly everyone. I spoke to used the word difficult to describe him. I met the elder six nine years ago when i was researching a book about the history of amsterdam and wanted to see the inside of the famous six house after a typical dutch lunch of sandwiches and milk in a kitchen. That seemed right. Out of vermeer painting dark woodwork tile floors angled light. He took me through his home. The delightful warren of halls and old rooms stuffed with curios. Some of them priceless. Though display rooms and living quarters were separate. The feeling of being simultaneously in a home and a museum was palpable. You turned from admiring of france. Hulse to notice played book and reading glasses on the side table or a broom and dustpan in the corner. My overall impression from the visit was something out of thomas. Mon- novel faded grandeur and an era of antiques stillness overseen by a wizened and mildly victim to hristo the elder six may be known for his contentiousness but regarding his most public battle a multi year lawsuit against the dutch government for failing to live up to an agreement to pay for maintenance of the house. Some people say he had appoint a left-wing politician thought. It was ridiculous to give money to a family. That's rich and so he stopped. The subsidy said fritz duparc former director of the martin house museum in the hague. Who served as a mediator in the dispute but the fact is the family isn't so rich because the art was long ago put into a foundation. The foundation was created in part to keep the art together and thus in the country in the past the family had been forced to sell vermeer's and other national treasures in order to pay tax bills. Eventually in two thousand eight the lawsuit was settled and an agreement reached a foundation owns the six mansion. The family has a right to live in it didn't And the state provides funds for its upkeep and exchange the sixes are to provide limited public access to the collection. Young sixes. obsession with rembrandt. Because it started with his childhood encounters with the master's portrait of his namesake and the blue salon in the six family house. Six can talk about rembrandt endlessly absorbing lee and with great feeling what sets rant apart is his ability to paint the person. He told me when. I go through a museum. And there's a rembrandt. I'll pass it the way you do. A person looking out of the corner of my eye thinking. Oh who's that like. It might be somebody i know. It's a living human being by contrast he doesn't think much of the other titan of the dutch golden age. I know a lot of americans love vermeer. I personally don't like him. It's a trick. Optical stuff i think if you put girl with a pearl earring next to any rembrandt you'll see the difference. Among the many reasons for the centuries of popular enthrallment with rembrandt the tremendous volume range and quality of the work. He produced the plethora of styles. He experimented with his own complex. Biography may be. The most trenchant is the psychological insight. He brought to bear on his subjects the way his figures seem to engage the viewer to pull you into the particular struggle of that moment in their lives. This focused on the individual was a defining feature of the artists era. The dutch golden age marta. Turn away from strictly religious subjects. Suddenly people were interested in ordinary life and in themselves and artists followed soon. Portrait painting became an industry. But rembrandt went one better than his contemporaries. Many of them could paint what you looked like. What made rembrandt so special to the citizens of amsterdam who lined up to commission him to paint their portraits was that he seemed to be able to go beneath the surface. To get who you were. That empathy may stem. Not only from rembrandt genius but also from his own life early on he became the most celebrated painter of the day but he refused to follow shifting fashions and fell from favour. he overspent going heavily into debt. He lost his wife not long after she gave birth and started a relationship with his babies nursemaid which he tried to extricate himself from by having the woman committed to an asylum then he went bankrupt. He's seems to have lived his last years in a misery of his own. Making if the dutch golden age of instant newly intimate focused on the individual rembrandt applied dictum to himself ruthlessly his self portraits. Especially the later. Ones are pitilessly. Honest explorations of the psychic toll. We inflict on ourselves. The walls have sixes. Amsterdam studio are always lined with seventeenth. Century portrait's works. He has bought and his researching or as having restored and preparing to resell when i showed up last summer. The painting from the christie's catalogue portrait of a young gentle was hanging in central spot. Six who talks in a soothing murmur and refers to himself as a scholar dealer gave me a tour of it. i love the glove and the cuff very elegant. See the brush strokes. He started here and slowly moves to the right and make the curve. He adds these broad strokes then he paints the cow and the bit that's in. The light is painted in colour because he understands that in light. You don't have black lines but in shadows you do. He cleverly uses the way light actually shines on material slowly recedes into shadow. When i was working on my book about the history of amsterdam six invited me here and conducted a remarkable little demonstration. He turned off the lights and lit candles. And in an instant the paintings were transformed. They took on new energy. the gold's and reds and flesh tones became warmer. The flicker of the flames seemed to breathe life into the two dimensional figures. Sixes is gleaned as he saw that i had registered the point. These paintings were made for candlelight. Six was helping me to experience the world of seventeenth century amsterdam irs in the most tangible way the minute differences in ways of seeing and feeling that separate one historical epic from another but i came to realize that he was also giving me an insight into something else. His lifelong struggle with his family over what it expected of him as heir to the six collection when he was a boy. The greatness of the western art tradition may have greeted him every day as he marched to breakfast but it didn't thrill him with a sense of destiny where previous heirs who were avid collectors. Though not art professionals seem to have accepted the responsibility with equanimity. Six pushed it away. Sixes are part of dutch nobility but as a teenager. He tried not to be an aristocrat his close friend davidge fund. Aided told me he was a little bit embarrassed by it. Rather than having rembrandt bruegel 's hanging in his bedroom. He went for posters. Bob marley and guns and roses. He hated high school. Got a job as a cook in a restaurant and thought for a time that becoming a chef might be his route of rebellion when his parents were away he would host parties in the mansion. We were there practically every weekend. Vineeta said we didn't swing from chandeliers but we would smoke drink kind can go out to a hip hop club. Stop at burger king. Then maybe go back to yawns place and sleep. Sometimes we set off the alarms six knew what was expected of him but bristled nobody wants to be pushed into a corner. He told me you here. All your life that everything you do is in preparation to follow in the six footsteps. But hey i'm an individual. He came around however at least partly when he started to interact with the people who showed up at the front door tickets in hand to take tours of his home. It was these ordinary folk who made six realized that art was his calling. Sometimes it tour guide would be sick. And i would help out. He said at first. I was scared. Then i saw how happy and interested the people were and when they learned that i was young six and they looked from me to rembrandt's portrait of the other. Yon six. i saw them getting excited. Connecting the past and present. Some of the visitors knew a lot about art. And i listened to them. He began looking at the paintings in a new way. They went from being flat. Representations of dead people too aesthetic expressions serving as portals into history in particular. That rembrandt portrait of the first john. Six to call him. I realized that it matters to me that the is in that painting are genetically my is six tried to free himself from the burden of his legacy by embracing the art that is the basis of it but engaging with it on his own terms he studied art history in college then was hired by sotheby's in london as a junior specialist in old masters he was good at the job and moved easily in the world of international wealth and culture over time it seemed a family. Gene kicked in hit mark the dutch author. Who wrote a history of the six family told me that some of the earlier yon sixers had an extraordinarily acute visual sense which guided them as they amassed their collection. This john six has to. He said it's an exceptional talent to see through a painting to remember a gesture from another painting. He saw years earlier an unbelievable memory for small details as he grew in his profession six came to feel he had a right to express himself on the family collection a series of clashes with his father and sued many of them about providing greater public access which has always been a difficulty currently tours of the collection which are by appointment only are booked into next year the picture that the younger six sketched was of an inward-looking father who was trying to preserve a legacy by keeping the world at bay who comes to realize over time that he also has to do battle with a gregarious and extroverted son. Who feels that the way to preserve that legacy is precisely by sharing it with the wider world. The battles left the younger six progressively more exasperated. I would cycle home after and think cheeses dad. I'm trying to help you. One of these disagreements centered on of all things picture frames some of the great paintings in the collection including the portrait of yan. Six have ornamented gilded frames which were put on them. By nineteenth century sixes. When showing us was in fashion. The younger argued for returning them to their seventeenth century. Look which would have meant the smooth and sober black frames. That he believed were the pictures. Natural habitat this was the other. Point of the candlelight demonstration six gave me if you put a gold frame around. A rembrandt whatever is in. The painting goes five meters to the back. And whatever is gold becomes yellowish. He said the painting has to compete with the noise of the frame. Take away the noise and beauty will emerge his father however was adamant that the pictures in the collection should stay in the gold frames. The younger six told me. He believed his father feels his duty to the collection including the way his ancestors preserved it. If you live in a house for decades and see it as the core of your existence you practically live for the house. He said whereas he himself feels an obligation to the art to avoid more confrontations. Six took a step back. I decided i would rather have a father as a friend so the house in the collection have nothing to do with me. Our relationship is best when there's the distance as recently as nineteen ninety-one paintings by artists of the dutch golden age. The italian renaissance and other major eras of european history dominated the international art market but in a digital oriented time in which there is a steady shift in the global balance of power last year. China became the second largest art market in the world behind the united states. European old masters have come to seem old in two thousand eighteen. Eighty five percent of the art news list of two hundred top collectors said they collected contemporary art in one form or another only six percent said they collected old masters. And while the top. Names rembrandt titian raphael. Still command top dollar. Everything else has dropped in value. If you buy a minor painting for three thousand dollars it will probably be worth two thousand dollars down. The line said auto nauman a prominent american art dealer. Now with sotheby's you see a similar decline. At the three hundred thousand dollar range seascapes flemish still lives. Many of these have diminished in value related to the decline in sales is the aging of the field. There are hardly any younger collectors. Who are interested in the old masters the former morris house director fritz duparc said most of the major collectors are in their seventies and eighties. There have been declines to and relevant university programs and faculty posts and in curator positions at museums. Duparc said that in the netherlands. There is exactly one professor fully devoted to the field of golden age dot chart matthew teitelbaum. The director of the museum of fine arts in boston says the new center for netherlandish art that his institution is developing will aim to counter this trend but he acknowledged the challenge right now. This is a narrowing field where university programs are declining and teaching appointments are being left unfilled as for dealers devoted to old masters to park noted that while a few decades ago there were dozens of independent dealers. Now there are only a scattered. Few most of the trade has been taken up by the auction. Houses sotheby's and christie's despite this inhospitable landscape. Yon six decided in two thousand nine to set himself up as an independent dealer in dutch old masters with a particular specialty in portraits. He says he had become leery of the corporate mentality. He founded sotheby's which looked at the world's artistic heritage as the high end commodity most dealers merchants said they could be car salesman or traders on wall street. I don't really think they're in it for the aesthetic high. He found an elegant studio library office space in amsterdam a few blocks from his parents and the family collection and set up shop. Sixth flourished as a dealer. He spent the next. Several years shuttling among new york. London paris and dempster damn buying and selling developing trust and in evermore discerning i. His name gave him ready access to the top collectors. And the directors of the world's major art museums he became versed in the high tech methods for analyzing paintings which can yield details about canvas wood and pigment the can offer insight into a work and its creator he did well as a dealer a hobart fling here a herod on tours there but he felt he was biding his time. What mattered to him. Was rembrandt six. Were doggedly to make himself an expert. He began a pilgrimage to stand face to face with each of the three hundred forty one paintings by the master listed in the corpus spread from omaha nebraska to saint petersburg russia. He has seen eighty percent of them so far and he amassed an archive of tens of thousands of documents and images related to the artist. It's not too much to say that. He takes rembrandt personally. When we first spoke about the portrait he discovered he made it clear. What finding it meant to him. This has nothing to do with my family. He asserted which as he well knew was both narrowly true and utterly falls. I want you to understand that. This discovery is not about my father or the six collection. It's pure catharsis for the first time in my life. It's just me and rembrandt podcast is supported by indeed dot com. The hiring site that helps you find quality candidates with indeed in student match indeed searches through the millions of resumes in their database to help show you great. Candidates indeed gives you full control and payment flexibility delivering a quality shortlist faster with indeed. There are no long term contracts. And you can pause your account at any time right now. Receive a seventy five dollars. Credit upgrade your job post at indeed dot com slash the daily terms and conditions apply after studying. The portrait of the young gentleman christie's last showroom six flew back to amsterdam and took the photographs. Shot to founder during the rembrandt scholar. To whom you've shown the catalog image veteran was further intrigued. But he wouldn't say more at the time without seeing the thing itself. That was enough for six. He was ready to bid. The auction. estimate was listed at nineteen thousand dollars to twenty five thousand dollars peanuts. If the painting was what he thought it was but if anyone else suspected what he did the price would shoot up. Rembrandt's of course can sell in the tens or hundreds of millions in two thousand fifteen the rights museum the great repository of dutch art and history. And the home of rembrandt's nightwatch in partnership with the louvre bought a pair of full length life size portrait by rembrandt of a wedding. Couple dated sixteen thirty four precisely within the period of yang sixes find. Each figure is wearing. The telltale bobbin lace the museums paid one hundred and seventy four million dollars for the pair six called an investor he had worked within the past. He won't say whom and gotta go ahead. Six told me the investor was willing to go as high as four million pounds. Five million dollars which would still be a bargain. For a rembrandt in the end sixers winning bid was one hundred and thirty seven pounds. A hundred and seventy three thousand dollars. The price was about right for a circle of painting. Six had the painting cleaned restored and scientifically analyzed for this. He went to the top team in the country for high tech art analysis. Petra noble head of paintings conservation at the rights museum told me that her lab did a micro x ray fluorescence scan of the painting. The technology that penetrates layers of paint and allows for a sophisticated analysis of a work and thus of the artists process and also studied paint samples because the rights museum had with the louvre. Recently purchased a pair of rembrandt wedding. Portrait's there was an opportunity to closely. Compare sixes young gentlemen. Especially with the portrait of the bridegroom martin schulman's those tests showed as six asserted in a two thousand eighteen book. He wrote about the painting. The two paintings were made with exactly the same materials. Follow the same build up in. Paint layers followed the same working method of painting from back to front and most importantly both have the unique black on white method that was used to paint delays colors. In other words he was saying his painting was just as much a rembrandt as the one that cost tens of millions of dollars museums however tried to avoid being used by dealers as marketing tools and noble was not willing to be so declarative. We have to be very careful about coming out with a conclusion. She said there are a lot of similarities and still a lot of questions that require more research six next lined up prominent scholars to support his attribution of the painting rembrandt. It's worth noting that some were unwilling to do so. Not because they definitively believed otherwise but as part of a shift toward acknowledging the grey areas in art history for such a painting which seemingly came out of nowhere. There is no way to achieve absolute certainty about its providence. When john came to me with his painting. I had to admit i couldn't contest his arguments. Said game it's an american. Rembrandt biographer and thirty on seventeenth century. Dutch chart and i told him i wouldn't express doubts about rembrandt's authorship but it doesn't make me happy to be so definitive. He went on to elaborate. The particular difficulties. That rembrandt poses for authenticator the variety of styles. He painted in his many pupils the likelihood that in his studio more than one person worked on a given painting a painting that is determined to be saved by the studio of rembrandt. Rather than by rembrandt himself would be of lesser value. Short is one of a number of art historians who when it comes to questions of the authenticity of works by famous. Painters would like people to focus less on the artist and the monetary worth of the painting than on the work itself. He uses the term. Rembrandt nece and argues for assigning shades of likelihood that a painting by the artist himself regarding the rim brenton's of this particular portrait. The after mutual to rembrandt is the hypothesis to beat but it may not be unbeatable. Museums tried to respect rembrandt. Nece the national gallery of art in london for example labels an old man in an armchair as probably by rembrandt and the more. It's house museum recently announced that it is mounting an exhaustive. Study of two of its supposed rembrandt's to try to determine the likelihood of their being by the master. I think rembrandt miss is a smart idea. Said ronnie bear senior curator of european paintings at the museum of fine arts in boston. But people aren't going to be content with it because there's so much money involved in attribution the most important opinion on whether or not the painting by rembrandt was that of vanderveer littering. The rembrandt scholar withheld judgment. While the painting was being analyzed as the restoration was being done i was more and more convinced on the veteran told me i thought that six was right in his assessment. Eventually however he added an important caveat he now believes sixes. Painting was originally part of a larger work. One tip off was the fact that the face is slightly blurred. Rembrandt does this in group. Portraits von devouring told me in order to guide the to the central figure in the composition. The other figure must have been slightly to the foreground. He said it may have been a female figure and the original painting was possibly a wedding portrait. That was later cut apart in a later interview with the dutch newspaper. Vonda asserted that if it were as he thought a fragment of a much larger work that would diminish its importance the day after yon six encountered the portrait of the ungentlemanly christie's catalogue back in two thousand sixteen. He met a woman named running polish. He was coming off a difficult divorce. The two hit it off almost immediately one of the first things he told me was. I think i've discovered a rembrandt balaj. Told me last july. As we began dating he talked about it all the time. Collage was an editor and publicist for a dutch publishing house. She said that six told her he was planning to write a scholarly treatise to accompany the unveiling and that when she looked at his notes she found them boring. She started to hatch an idea. Here was the sign of a family that is famous in the netherlands. For its connection to great art and to rembrandt in particular. And now he had discovered a rembrandt on his own. As a publicist. I looked at this in a commercial way. She said her idea was to unveil the painting. In the same way. A blockbuster book would be introduced with a full media. blitz six resisted at first. I said there's not a big public for this. He said the old masters are usually for senior citizens who have free time. Balaj pushed back and eventually he followed her lead. I was constantly convincing you on of how big this story was going to be. She said in may two thousand eighteen nearly a year and a half after six. I saw the picture in london. He appeared. Live on powell. One of the most popular talk shows in the netherlands after a brief introduction. The show's host together with six pulled. A black cloth off the canvas to the whoops of the audience the tv appearance was the centerpiece of the media campaign which also included an exclusive front page story in the nation's top newspaper and our say handles plot and the slickly produced book rembrandt's portrait of a young gentleman that six wrote about the painting over the next few days. The news echoed around the world. The book became an instant bestseller in dutch and english and french. Traditions went to press. That's people like to point out that they are on aggressively. Egalitarian and plainspoken lot. There are several things in the language about the danger of hubris. The tallest tree takes the most wind. Stick your head out too far and it will get chopped off the old masters world to tends to prefer discretion if not modesty to showing us the flamboyance with which six announced his find defied both cultures yet the gatekeepers of traditional art far from turning up their noses at the showing us were initially wowed by the extra attention. The field was getting been pipes. Former director of the rights museum characterized the tv unveiling to me at the time as a very well launched enterprise and quite amazing as the wave of popular. Enthusiasm was washing over six. I asked him why. If his departure from sotheby's had been motivated by distaste for the commodification of art he was now participating in it he shrugged and gave a one. Line may culpa. I'm a businessman. But later he offered a more introspective response for years. I've been struggling in my mind to prove that. I know something about paintings in my own right. I'm happy that what they're writing and all the articles. So far from america to china is about me as a dealer not as the six in september two thousand eighteen four months after six made his televised splash nearly two years. After the christie's sale a dutch art dealer named sounder bio from alkmaar the city north of amsterdam spoke to a reporter from nasa handles blood and claim that in fact he too had recognized the catalog images most likely being a rembrandt bio went on to claim that he had approached six about buying the painting together that six agreed that the two men further committed to cap their joint bid just above one hundred thousand euros which was as high as bios able to go when the painting sold for one hundred and fifty three thousand euros bile said it never occurred to him that the winning bidder was six bio was accusing six of entering an agreement with him then separately putting in another higher bit of his own through an intermediary in order to him in a competitor who saw the true value of the work as another old masters dealer. Told me that's not done in our business. Byles newspaper interview claiming that john. Six the darling of the dutch old masters world was a achieved reverberated around the international art community. By later told me that he had no choice but to come forward to protect his reputation he felt that it reflected poorly on him among dealers and others in the field. If they believed that he'd missed a rembrandt he was enraged. The during sixes televised unveiling of the portrait and in subsequent media appearances six described the process of finding researching and buying it as strictly solo enterprise. In which he was aided only by the expertise of vander veteran and the funds of his anonymous backer yang six was going around with his discovery that only he could find saying. Is everybody else in the business stupid or am i that smart. He knew very well that we had both seen it. Bile forwarded me a chain of what's app messages had sent to six before the christie's sale which included snapshots of parts of the canvas detailing his own study of it. They seemed to prove that bile had seen the painting in person before six made it to the christie's showroom six told me last september that he never agreed to buy the portrait with bile. He did seem to suggest however that he had led the other dealer on. I was very scared that sandra would alert the auction house that they had something special. He said and christie's would take the picture out of the sale. Which has happened to me before i said. What do you want to do. Six claimed to me that by this he meant. What are you planning to do. But the bio took it as an agreement that they would work together on the picture. Six told the newspaper de volkskrant last october. I gave sounder room to believe in his own story. The dutch found the new development especially titillating because of the parallels between the two art dealers. They are about the same age. Byles father martin. Bile is one of the premier art restorers in the netherlands whose resume of refurbishing paintings includes many rembrandt's like six. Sandra bile grew up surrounded by old dutch art but there was a difference in status between the two men. I'm the kind of dealer who has a booth at all the art fairs. Bile told me yon six doesn't bother himself with that. I'm little thunder bio from alkmaar. He's aristocratic john. Six from amsterdam in the wake of byles accusations six revealed to me another piece of information that seemed to dwarf the spat between the art dealers earlier. I asked him about a rumor going around that he had discovered a second rembrandt. He denied it now. He said it was true. Six said he had found this other rembrandt two years before he'd seen the portrait at christie's but had agreed not to make the find public until the end of two thousand and nineteen would be a centerpiece of the reopening of the lockin hall museum in leiden the city of rembrandt's in conjunction with the three hundred fiftieth anniversary of the artist's death but this accusation from sander byles. Six told me changed things in order to explain what happened between himself and bile. He said he needed to go public with the news that he had found a second rembrandt. He did so on september fourteenth making yet. Another theatrical unveiling on powell six told me that he i noticed this painting a biblical scene depicting jesus surrounded by children and onlookers in the online catalogue of german auction house in two thousand fourteen. All those years of looking at rembrandt's seemed to pay off in the flash. What part is i was what appeared to be a self portrait of a very young rembrandt in one of the minor figures. The detail excited six. Not only because it's so closely resembled other self portraits of the artist but also because it fit into rembrandt's early tendency to work his own likeness into his paintings. The painting had a pre-auction estimate of twenty thousand dollars to twenty seven thousand dollars but the dealer otto nauman had also spotted it as a probable rembrandt and was determined to buy it as a result. Six together with his anonymous investor ended up paying two million dollars. It is thought to have been painted very early in rembrandt's career possibly when he was only nineteen and to be his first known work on canvas. The painting was heavily painted over by later. Artists redone in different colors. A naked boy covered up to try to return it to something like the state. The master intended six decided to have the `overpainting removed once again. He consulted van de wetering who he says all but insisted that he have. Martin bile do the extremely delicate restoration. I didn't want to do it. But ernst was quite adamant about it. He told me seeming to imply that if he wanted the blessing of the rembrandt scholar he had to work with the father of sandra bile six said that he made a deal with martin vile to restore the painting and that it was wild. That painstaking work was being done. That six discovered the portrait in the christie's catalogue and showed it vonda veteran. Not long after sounder. Bile the son of the restorers and six of whatsapp message yawn. I understand that you've talked with martin and danced about the portrait. That's about to be auctioned but six had not talked to martin bile about the portrait. He said it was clear to him from this message that the veteran had violated his confidence by informing martin. Bile that six was on the hunt. For another rembrandt and that the father had told his son. He repeated this assertion on powell in september. Two thousand eighteen as well as the assertion that von detering pushed him to use martyn. Bile suddenly sounder was trying to get friendly with me six told me and making overtures about the two of them buying the portrait together meanwhile he said martin bile was demanding more money to complete the restoration of the first painting. Not just an hourly fee as per the original agreement but a percentage of profits from the sale of the painting. It was a form of blackmail. Six said i emailed martin bio for his response to this charge. He did not reply but his son did saying that his father asked for more money after six demanded that he speed up his restoration work which would have required him to turn down other clients. He sent me a chain of whatsapp messages. Between six and the elder bile that suggested a cordial relationship sandra bile did not deny that he learned about sixes interest in the painting through his father who in fact heard about it from van devouring but he said that such interactions are normal and inevitable within the small world of dutch old masters. But he says that by the time his father told him of sixes interest in the portrait. He had already realized that. Christie's was selling possible. Rembrandt portrait as the work of a minor painter. He forwarded me an email. He sent a christie's in november two thousand sixteen requesting a high resolution photo of the painting which was dated days before six himself told me he i saw indicating another words that he had taken note of the picture on his own. He said that he had done business together on occasion. You bought a couple of small works from six early last year. He said so. It was normal for him to approach six with the idea of buying the painting together when i talked to sounder bio by phone. This past december after his dispute with six had been batted around in the dutch media for a couple of months he suggested that six's effort to erase biles involvement in the paintings. Purchase came out of sixes struggle with his demons. He has a problem with the burden of the six name and he feels. He needs to prove himself. I have to pay for his personal family issues. No he cheated me along with headlines. Like brennan discoverer. Yon six accused of deception. Came another unpleasant surprise for six van de wetering whom six had spent his professional life in of gave a blistering public response to sixes assertions that had forced sixty us martin bile and that he had violated the confidence while just weeks before von devouring told me that he and six had a great kinship in the wake of sixes accusation. He told and say handles plod. Six is shown his true nature. I now know that he can lie. He declared their friendship pattern in nevertheless in the same interview. Vanna veteran gave a glowing assessment of sixes other discovery the biblical painting. He said was a great find. That shows a phase in the development of the young rembrandt. When six and i met again in october he was in defiant mood. He has dark hair that when he is exasperated tends to fall across his face curtain. He raked it back in place with one hand as he made his case. He insisted that sandra bio was just trying to cash in on six zone success. When dan brown wrote the davinci code he had all kinds of lawsuits. He said frankly. I think i'm lucky. I only have one guy coming after me. He waved away my suggestion. That his fixation on rembrandt clouded his professional judgement he wouldn't even credit the seemingly straight-forward evidence that bile had spotted the portrait as a likely rembrandt on his own and he expressed bitterness that a plot by others motivated. He said by jealousy and greed admired what was to be his personal and professional breakthrough and obscured an unprecedented achievement in the history of mankind. Nobody before has ever discovered to rembrandt's despite its decline in the market and in universities syllabus that old masters art continues to have great popular appeal the success over the years of the book and film girl with the pearl earring and donna tarts novel the goldfinch which has a painting by the seventeenth century dutch artist. Carl for brizio's said it's center and is now being made into a movie are mirrored in visitor. Attendance at museum exhibitions since the rights museum and the margaret's house reopened after renovations a few years ago. Each institution has seen visitor numbers. Roughly double within old masters. I think dutch art is so much more approachable than say italian religious art or overblown. Baroque said ronnie bear curator at the museum of fine arts by way of explaining its popularity. Everyone can understand still life or an interior if some in the dutch old masters world who know how popular the is among ordinary people and are hoping to reverse its decline in academia and the marketplace cheered on yon six when he made his discoveries if for surely because they saw him as an appealing young champion of the 'cause he has the pedigree of course but beyond that he so thoroughly grasps. What makes this art special by. Turning away from strictly religious subjects and highlighting the world around them still lives landscapes pictures of one another. The painters of the time created works of art that are windows into who we are people who devote their lives to the field. Do so out of a sense of dedication and treated like a 'cause. We have to fight for the importance of dutch art. Said emily gordon kerr director of margaret's house the home of vermeer's girl with the pearl earring and fabrizio's the goldfinch. We have to make sure the stories of these paintings still matter. Some of the top people in the field museum directors curator's academics expressed disappointment in six after his debacle. Though none wanted to go on the record discussing it this is very sad thing because people already suspect art dealers of being slippery. One said i can tell you. Some people are talking about yang six like acres. One dealer said that six had made a young man's mistake in dealing with the controversy. He should've acted immediately to settle the matter quietly. Even if he felt he was in the right. The dealer suggested the prudent move would have been to reach a settlement in the name of preserving your reputation. This business is entirely based on trust. The dealer went on people have to trust you and your painting to underscore the point. The dealer told me that he himself as two prominent buyer whether the buyer wanted him to get a price on one of the two paintings success on earth but that the buyer had responded not with that controversy around it in the broader world. Though controversies fade the last time. I spoke with yon six in february. He was an altogether different mood. Do commemorate the three hundred. Fiftieth anniversary of rembrandt death this year. The dutch broadcaster n. p. o. as tinder record a five part tv series in which six wanders through streets where the painter lived stops in front of the building in leiden where he went to school and muses before various masterpieces. It's six doing what he does. Best communicating his passion. This time to a very broad audience which is new for him. There are hundreds of thousands of people. Watching me on the telly and enjoying it. He said suddenly all kinds of people are contacting me. Some have an old painting they want me to look at a woman just called me. She said she's turning. Seventy five entered. Twin sister is crazy about rembrandt. She asked if there was some way. I would stop in at their birthday lunch. And talk about rembrandt for ten minutes. So sweet of course. I'll go this has given me a great boost. It has also given him some distance from the bubble as he referred to the are delete and allowed him to begin to move on from his thrilling and excruciating year. It was epic in fantastic. He said and then everything changed. I realized that being so obsessed with a painter is not necessarily a good thing. But of course i still am. If you happen to be strolling in central amsterdam there is one spot from which it is just possible to make eye contact with yon six. The original yon six that is his portrait is situated in the six mansion in such a way that with a little craning. It's visible from the sidewalk in front. He's in a room one flight up looking down toward you yawn. The eleventh likes to talk about rembrandt's way with this one of his ancestor and namesake seems caught in a swirl of melancholy knowing weary consciousness of the frustrations and limitations of human life that was the epitome dion sixty eleventh had as a teenager looking at the portrait of his ancestor which set him off in search of his own identity distinct from that of his forebears that someone from three and a half centuries ago could with paint on canvas convey the human essence in a way. That is utterly intelligible today that therefore perhaps identity with all its flaws and insecurities its jets of insight and pools of empathy is individual as it is. Is that the same time universal What do they do at dana. Farber cancer institute. They solve puzzles against a deadly opponent. One puzzle began by discovering the pedia one pathway which showed how the immune system can be enabled to attack cancer cells years later this led to a successful treatment for hodgkin lymphoma and later still new treatments for melanoma kidney and other cancers learn about a nearly seventy five year momentum of discovery at danafarber dot org slash everywhere.

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BPR Full Show 10/21/20: Lessons from Remote Learning

Boston Public Radio Podcast

2:07:51 hr | 7 months ago

BPR Full Show 10/21/20: Lessons from Remote Learning

"Support for Boston public radio comes from literally farms committed to transforming the way food is grown in New England fresh lettuce harvested daily in Massachusetts all year round. It's the local lettuce locals love learn more at literally farms dot Com. Ahead on Boston public radio restaurants across the city of forged a coalition the tryon survived the long term uncertainties industry deeply affected by the pandemic seven months into very forms business restrictions that we reshape the way we behave in public spaces where we spend our money just a couple of minutes chef tiffany phase on we'll check in with us about how she and her fellow owners. Are Faring on Jerry Bonin from. Argentina. Again, when armed protesters stood before the Michigan State? House rallying against Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer Kovic lockdown orders earlier this year president trump encourage them to liberate Michigan. Now after a handful of men tried to kidnap and try her wit mirror says, trump is fanning flames of domestic terrorism as he fails to condemn the acts CNN analyst Juliette Cayenne. A few minutes to discuss. That's all ahead on Boston public radio. Welcome the Boston public radio. I'm Jim Brady Marge Regan has the day off sitting in his Jared Bowen. He's executive arts editor. Gbh. Jared is great to see you how are you? Well, it's great to be back with you again Jim. Incredible Breaking News I. Just read the seconds ago. POPE FRANCIS VOICES support for same sex civil unions. I was GONNA. Say Oh. My God I don't know if you're say that's not the pulpit. God that is really its size. A documentary and a new documentary probably talk about that a little bit later as also some breaking news from Gbh Boston, public schools, which is what we're GonNa talk about Boston beyond you know thanks to the pandemic across the country. The curriculum for the school year has been rewritten. As I just. Mentioned Gbh News has a story up Boston schools will go fully remote mayors announcing that because the seven day positively rate for the coronavirus well climbs the five point seven percent in Boston teachers are getting an education and what it means to teach using zoom is an interface that challenges that come with physically distancing in the classroom parents or having a pitch in more than usual with women by the way. Bearing most of the burden by making sure the kids are keeping up with their mutt learning most polls are focusing on. We're parents and teachers are on remote versus in person learning a recent poll by common sense finds fifty nine percent of students as the ones age thirteen seventeen say virtual learning is worse than in person instruction we needed the poll know that now there were a few months into this. New Way of learning we're taking your calls asking if you were in charge of the curriculum rather than being at the whims of school districts and changing government policies. How things go in your kid's classrooms eight, seven, seven, three, zero, one, eighty, nine, seventy. What have you learned so far? Teachers is the risk of in person learning worth it parents is there a better way for your kids learn without you? Having to be a surrogate teacher or resources the problems if you had better tools more space, for example, in stronger Internet would that make a difference for basically doing assessment a couple of months in eight, seven, seven, three, zero, one, eighty, nine, seventy you've been here for a lot of these discussions we've had with parents and teachers, and there's been agony angst in the voices of virtually everybody who's gold injured. I. Remember being with you and talking as people were anticipating what was to come and the uncertainty, and I think it's kind of heartbreaking for a lot of people to get to this point where there is still this level of uncertainty. Especially, as we have this new breaking news out of Boston that they're returning to full remote learning I think this is What a lot of people feared that we would see this second surge, it's very much seems to be taking hold here in the Northeast and especially in Massachusetts release a lower New England states do force people for as much as for all the planning they did to get kids back in the classroom for all of his arguments about what in-person learning. Would mean that they are essentially being dispatched back home at this point, and until these the until the positive infection rates come down in the Boston area these kids will remain at home and we're just now hearing all of these horrific stories that go from district to district maybe horrific is too strong a word that in some cases it seems to. Be going well and efficiently been in a lot of cases you know kids are online for a couple of hours and then have much of the day to themselves, and so parents are trying to reconcile what kind of education their their children are actually getting in this moment, and also by the way while Boston is where the breaking news is from Sadly, my sense is this a harbinger of things to come. We're GONNA TALK TO 'EM Lahser from Brown University next week who's done the study that's gotten a nationwide attention about how schools are not super spreaders, but if I remember correctly having read. Reports on her study. This is assuming that the schools are in communities that are not hot spots and is your positivity rates are raising rising virtually everywhere obviously in Boston in particular right now, it's going to be a dangerous proposition. So we all know get your assessment of how it's going for your kids or whether you're teaching them or parenting them or whatever it is and if you could do things differently. Based upon your month or two months of experience. How'd you recreate the curriculum would there be school at all. Now there's a piece in the globe the other day about being much more creative about this get kids outside for as long as he can and basically accept the fact, and it's unfortunate that education is not going to be what K. through twelve kids need is despite the best efforts of. Some well-intentioned government officials as opposed to some in Washington and the. Teaching. Infrastructure itself. Let's take some calls eight, seven, seven, three, zero, one, eight, hundred, nine, seventy by the way. If you're not clear according to Gbh News, this shift to all remote includes the twenty six hundred high needs students who are currently attending city schools in person this is. The mega will house here at Gbh, Mohamed and the car your first on Boston public radio. Thanks much Golan high. High and thanks for taking my call. Sure. I is I. Have My kids I've had him in public now I haven't been Catholic school. Big thing is I think the teachers are so Unprepared. And also unwilling to go above and beyond to give the kids a good classroom experience I mean kids are. Just so much follow. The parents have to do to just check on the basics homework. You know they get zome classes, sometimes zoom classes that cancer and we don't ever find out today's later. So it just feels like there's so much. Just a gap that I don't understand professionals I'm sorry I know it's hard but. They has to be aware with kids could get a decent education on the zoom conferences business running on conferences. Will you it's interesting Muhammad. You said your kids switched to a Catholic schools. Yeah I mean. They. Weren't we've heard that they were working. Much better than many of the public schools but you're saying yours is not that's not the case with your kids. Well. I. Think they're working better for the kids that are in school Have my kids at home. Oh Okay. No that's okay I. mean chose to have my kids at home. So they on zoom right now but I feel. As though the kids at home, then I get into full experience of being in school and I don't know if it's because they just don't know how to run the zoom classes or is it just not paying enough attention because, hey, those kids at home. So we don't have to just as much but. You run away was this you worry this is a law fear for your kids. No question in my mind no question in my mind I'm thinking about you know tutoring I'm thinking about all the other things that I can do besides what I'm doing as a parent which I have no time to do it. But I feel like I got investment money into them just because there's been a lot shit, there's no question. We. Wish you luck Mama that's horrible tale to start this conversation. But obviously real very much for call eight, seven, seven, three, zero, one, eighty, nine, seventy. Jamaa will have a lot of or possibly teachers calling in you probably also at work right now and hopefully teaching the students. But we also know that they had a lot foisted on them and one of the big questions that I had throughout the summer is these plans were being devised is the teachers had to plan and administrators had to plan for both eventualities they had to plan for the in person learning and then remote, and they're doing this with very little resources and they were doing it right up until the last minute until school with the school year is upon us There's a lot of information. To Digest, there's a lot of planning that had to happen. You have to be an IT engineer. You have to be an epidemiologist you have to be a teacher you have to be sociologist. There's so much the teachers are bearing at this point. See You understand I think and I say, this is not a teacher but also not a parent but just looking at this from the outside why this might be breaking down in in areas where it is breaking down right now by the way I share your sympathy but most of what I've read is This was a wasted summer and most school systems that's. The unpreparedness is totally understandable in the spring. The lack of preparedness in many places that we hear about come fall in my estimation is less defensible in light of the fact that there were a couple of months in between where they could have gotten up to speed and a lot of the administration's didn't take the time. Let's go to oxbridge where Lynn on Boston public radio with major rowdy and jarred bone. Hi. Hi I talked to you guys once before when you had asked about how he felt about going back to school. Back. Nine. Yep. So My district is hybrid and I teach high school health so it's low stakes as far as testing goes. And They're actually have been some real positive for me which aired just said about the workload is incredible because you basically planning. To different things for every block that you teach the kids that have the kid at home you connect with them you tell them what they're gonNa do and then the other happy teach in real time. So you're doing two separate planning things. It's an incredible amount of like paperwork. But I will say in saying this on, Wednesdays, we're all fully remote when the schools get sanitized again and I just had all my remote classes and there's something really nice about all these faces looking at you and being attentive and no distractions. And I don't know if it's because it is hybrid now that. That it's like that or it's it's that teach kind of a fun subject. I. Don't know if that's it either but and also the kids I was telling my husband, the kids are saying thank you when we're in lifetime and they're excited to be there. Well, do you have a sense of course you're spending this time with them and I think what we're hearing is a lot of the time. Once once the students log off zoom and if they're always logging zoom to begin with what their time is like with you versus what the rest of their day is like, right right I. Don't see. This is what's really difficult when they are checking in when they. Are Remote we are giving them. You know work that they should be doing at that time trying to make it engaging in exciting in my district actually did a great job I thought with with training. We did it in house and we had a few people who are real tech savvy teacher had to do some engaging USA maps that were great I'm a little bit older so I appreciate it a lot. And I don't know. How they using the time I think that's fair I. Really Don't Lynn. We wish you luck and thank you so much for sharing your perspective eight, seven, seven, three, zero, one, eighty, nine, seventy. Let's next. Go to Cooper calling from Weymouth I cooper. Jared they should taking my call. So I'm also a teacher I teach High School in wish in the suburb near Boston. And I agree with what Jim was I actually agree with both your point that you made before that last caller I agree with Jim saying if it felt like. A waste summer in some ways because. it was really up to teachers to train themselves and decide how much training and how much effort they wanted to put in. To, figuring out best practices for virtual learning and I know a lot of teachers in my school in my district. Didn't go above and beyond. I was working with teachers. We would do like fake. Zoom calls in Google and Google calls just to work out the Kingston, figure it out for ourselves. But that was just coming from us. That wasn't coming from our administration at all So in a Lotta ways, it kind of felt like. We are teaching ourselves how to teach again, it's horrible But I will say that we have a hybrid model sensitive to the last caller and. You know I think that. Students are. Doing the best they can and trying to get the best education they can, and all the kids have been really good about wearing their masks. And social distancing and showing up to their remote classes. But it is really really challenging trying to basically plan double. And then in between each class responding to student emails in student messages. For the kids who are at home you know trying to get that extra help. US other depressing tale cooper, good luck, and thanks for your work and we really appreciate your beer. Appreciate all. Thank you for calling in. We are talking about the coronavirus and the classroom asking you what's working what isn't the conversation continues on eighty nine seven Gbh Boston public. Radio. Welcome back to Boston. Public Radio Jim Brady and Marjorie and what inspired this conversation with jared I said margin jared bone sitting in for Marjorie I got so flummoxed by the tote bag. Inspire this story out this morning that Boston schools we go fully remote because the positivity rate is practically floating in. Boston. So we decided we'd get an update from you about teaching learning in parenting amid pandemic, where you're remote learning skeptic at the beginning has distance learning work or your parents figuring out teaching a lot harder than you imagine we want an update from you and if you were in charge of this system. How would you reformulated in the time of the Crow Virus? Eight seven, seven, three, zero, one, eighty, nine, seventy, you know, and of course, I think a lot of the things we anticipated this summer is the the class divide the economic divide is certainly in play here as certain school district's have more resources to do the in person learning because they don't see the infection rates as high or they have the wherewithal to. Keep their kids in school or have robust remote learning whereas we're learning other communities don't have that facility and you know the globe just had a fabulous article. I think it was over the weekend that was really looking at this divide and looking at how many kids are signing on for maybe an hour or two, and then their parents are watching them play video games because they just don't have the content that keeps them occupied all day long. Take some calls, jared let's go to Tony in Worcester Hi Tony Tony. Good Morning Gentlemen how are you? We're good. I just calling to give my two cents worth for parents of kids with disabilities I hear all these people talking about complaining about teachers and the system, and then we are in how it's not working and what to do with the kids and. You know I it's I hate to one up everybody. But if you got a kid with complex disabilities in this environment right now You're in a lot of trouble you're you have to. You have to make a lot of tough decisions about the rest of your family about work about you know suddenly where we're finding ourselves, trying to find somebody to help us at home. With for more hours but there's nobody there's less people than before to come in and help you with your you know your daily care and all that stuff. So we're doing that on top of trying to figure out how to do therapies for kids kids. Kids kids with complex disabilities. Don't learn the same way as other kids. So it's not something you can draw on from your old days in school. You know it's It's stuff you took for granted while your kids go to school they're getting all these therapies and they know speech therapy and physical therapy and occupational therapy and all that. It's on you. Now you have to, you have to look how to become a therapist you have to one of you. One of the parents has to stay home and I don't know how parents single parents with kids with complex disabilities to it. I don't know how they're working it out right now and I really don't have the time to find out because we're we're in. Deep emergency mode right now in our house and we have been for a year and that's what really ticks me off about this. It's not so much the the way the cities handling it in the way, the school departments handle, and it's the way our society is handling this and and and bigger picture you know in the national lack of a national plan. People Transport people driving back and forth across state borders bringing stuff. You know they're doing these foolish motorcycle rallies in the Midwest and it's screwing up everything and people aren't taking a serious and I think it all comes from the top. But that's another story. The problem I just wanted to put in our two cents worth and I I don't mean to one up on everybody this great keep going Tony. Well it's just that it's just that you know we're not equipped to do this stuff this work you know and. I would love to be able to help my kid you know and and continue the therapy that she's been getting and improving with, and it's as if we hit a wall in February. We just everything had to stop and we're just trying to figure out the way to do it. You know 'cause there's nobody nobody up there to help us this is kind of Tony. I D I'm sure you know where you may know that until the announcement by Mayor Walsh this morning the only kids that were doing in person in the Boston schools was the twenty six hundred high needs students that obviously changing with this announcement is Worcester and in-person thing for high needs students or is it not? It is not. At. All. Well. We're getting some we have to transport and everything. Now that's the other thing we can't use. Buses the vans that we use them for transporting because. They, they don't have enough monitors and to keep the six foot distance in a bus you can only have a driver and one student and we're not GONNA do that we're not sending her to school attended without a monitor. So. That's the other trick you know. You can't get them to school You know we have some transport ability at home, but it's it's all you know an and our our daughter has some really severe disabilities autism and it's kids with autism can't relate to teachers on the screen on the computer or on TV it's it's a whole different way of Communication as I involved you know and other stuff like that. So. Tony Kyw tell you one of the most. Powerful Advocacy Kohl's we've heard in a long time you We're really glad you your thoughts with us and we hope leaders are listening to your play. Don't hesitate to call us again and bring us up to speed. Tony. Thank you so much. Numbers, and all the stuff are one thing jared it. When you hear a story when you hear a real life story of a struggling parent who loves his kid who was out for help you? Everything changes I mean it really it becomes from the abstract for those enough. Those of US lucky enough not to be dealing with with every single nightmare. Want us to deal with this to totally real. It just changes everything I think. So absolutely, Jim, I think that that's what I've realized early on that I if more people encounter people who had the virus or saw illness or heard stories like Tony's and understand how people are having to. Live right now and choices that people are having to make right now we would be having a very different story and it's ludicrous compensation even about mask-wearing wouldn't even be happening if people were just more aware but tony made the point he said you know today's not today to blame the people at the top. You can blame your neighbors who when they behavior responsibly. It's not just when they go home for their parents or their partner or whoever. It trickles down to Tony's kid I mean it creates a community in which has kid can't go to school because we didn't care enough about his kid or his family we only care about ourselves. So we decided we didn't wear masks. So, I'll tell you I I hope everybody heard that call and I hope that scares a lot of you straight who have not been playing by the rules Monica and Franklin you're next on. Boston public. Radio. Hi. Thank you I wanted to I did WANNA play who blame on the top in this situation though because when you look at the state, the state did not state could've unified and given good strong guidance to help everyone regardless of how much money they're district had to try to get some solid plans. There are there is good software that for most students would. Be Useful for them to have at home and there are good plans that could have been put in but instead they kept changing their guidelines. That's why the summer was wasted. The teachers never knew exactly what was going to happen, and of course, the teachers needed that summer to plan we shouldn't be blaming him. Now I teach remote at Brown, university and my college students. Go to the wrong classrooms and don't know how to get between classes and manage their time and expecting that from little kids. It's really hard and I had all summer to prepare for this and they didn't and I'm really disappointed. I was in board of Education meetings early in the pandemic where we were suggesting things that would help for the state not. Only to provide uniform guidance but also to make plans to track the inequities that are inevitably going to come from this especially now with Boston closing with low income students, underprivileged students not getting the same kind of education this year they're going to be so far behind whenever things returned to normal and there could have been things put in place the state just ignored. The other powerful call Monica. Thank you for. For making it Y'all tell you. I don't know how people deal with kids. We talked to Shirley young every week I don't know if you've heard any of jared who's got a Fi I think a five and seven year old and she's got a job. Oppressing won her husband's got a job and she says with her younger, maybe it's seven and nine I take it back her younger kid she essentially sits with her kid the whole time four hours five hours a day to make sure that he is able to get through the lesson instead it's just It's just an as Tony said, you imagine if you're a single parent if you're a single parent who's got a high needs I mean it's just the whole thing is just Points it's not too late. It's not too late to to not try to sue in all of the lanes but just. Did determine the one the one that's going to be most effective fundamentally to carry us through into next spring, which probably is remote learning. If you see what just happened to the Boston schools were already, they're having to poke kits back. But I, I've never quite understood why the decision has been planned for all different scenarios and deploy those resources when perhaps it's better to just consolidate. All right. Well, coming up, we will be having. We'll be returning to the conversation by the way toward the end of the show. This is a very big news day for schools as we learned about Boston. Sending back to remote learning because of the high infection rate in this area. So we'll be having a conversation as I said at the end of the show about corona virus and the schools but coming up next shift tiffany phase on his enough is a force in Boston's restaurants seeing. But the pandemic it's forcing her to make some tough calls about closing things down. She's next on eighty nine seven Gbh Boston public radio. Welcome back to Boston public radio I'm Jim Brady, jared bonus sitting in for Marjorie seven months ago when governor Baker ordered all non essential businesses, the clothes for the restaurant industry that men take out and delivery. Only if that in late March, we check in with tiffany phase on she's of course, the chef and owner of a great consolation restaurants in the fenway or tiger mama sweet cheeks and fool's Aaron when we asked her how she was managing, here's what tiffany had to say. Drinking. Drinking. We're checking back to see if she's still drinking. As we enter this cold weather period amid rising virus cases. What does it mean for her restaurants are colleagues in the Industry Tiffany it is great to talk to you as always. Thanks for calling in. I, it's really nice. The Nice to chat with you under Dutch weird circumstances. Dude tiffany. Great to be speaking with you. I was just at your restaurant or do I think it was last week or the week before I don't know all the time blurs together could have been this morning I have. been. Listening. To the beginning of this, when you said it was seven months go I thought there's a part of me. That's like seven months was two years. For. Just time has no meaning it's weird. But when I was there I saw you've you've kept things going it's the the same staff, the same the same feel of restaurant, of course, the same great taste of your restaurant. But if you can just try to take us through what you've had to do, you know it doesn't have to be an epic history here. But what have you had to do since? March to get to this point where you've been able to remain open and serve. I mean for all of the restaurants you know we went for we closed for a little while and that was obviously safety concerns. Really there's so much. We didn't know in the beginning We reopened one at a time a week at a time and then from there, we went to outdoor dining one at a time one week after the other You is pivoted a lot in terms of concentrating our menus I've seen that everywhere, a lot of people's menus have become smaller and that's really about having managed Labor to where we don't have as many people working, and we can control the things that are major expenditures for us, which is also hard because we're in that means less of our people that. Are Team and our family that worked for us is with us now. So you know it's just constant managing of labor and managing of Oliver Kaufman things that we can negotiating with like waste management and Rene companies because we have less waste and less people are visiting space, and so you're really looking at the fine print in all of our contracts and and Oliver Partners and everyone's hurting but it's also been really incumbent upon us to just really manage those sign numbers. So you know we the one of. The greatest things about if there are any silver linings of this is all the restaurants are so close together that we've been able to be physically present and support each other, and that's been such a huge benefit and this I think for all of our sanity, you know just kind of emotional states going through. So you know that's how we've gotten to here in the summer was interesting You know there are parts of it that were great expanded our outdoor dining at all three restaurants and he even with that. We. Didn't seat inside significantly during the summer and then started to more at sweet cheeks in August and really July and August and then End of August September tiger flaw no It's been interesting We are best month where August and parts of September it. So weather dependent it it's just it's such there's no flow there's no rhythm to get into whether it's business expectations or just if you're a cook and trying to settle into your night and having something that feels like you understand how the night will go or server, there's no flow, it's just it's just been a little Not a little it's like there's been no means to predict what's happening. So you know most of arts entirely for coming even in our busiest months and busiest in air quotes as I'm saying this. we're losing money. Into, the conversation becomes now, how much can I afford to lose until I don't have enough in the coffers on the other side to try and open to make crew this if we get to another side look when we get to the other side of this. So became the you know the sort of glaring. Yellow. Light into a red light and you know I know what the number is and I know what I need and I know how to manage what it costs to be closed when we're open their unexpected costs that we can trip through and and those are really what hurt us so I don't know that was really really tough. It's I don't know how to describe what it feels like to work your entire life for something that just feels like it's slipping through your fingers and Dino Fault of anything that we've done. It feels so deeply personal and it's not all at the same time and you know to business in everyone's healthy and I'm trying to be as attached to the outcome of this or fighting like hell but I also. Trying to manage it emotionally and It's I can't explain how hard it's been. By the way, we read in the globe that you're going to do the hibernated thing I guess everywhere except sweet cheeks starting November first is. Closed. I was GONNA. I was GonNa talk about that and I'm much more interested in your state of mind since you've talked about it. So eloquently, tiffany phase out a deal with this I mean I almost every person I know like you in the city is in this community this greater city. has spent their life building to this point and everything is hanging by the threat if it's hanging at all. How do you how do you and I know how much you care about your people at your your staff in all your restaurants are spectacular an friendly and competent. How do you deal I? Don't mean the bottom line, the psychological I, how do you deal with all this? I don't know if there's A. I'm certainly not the person to give advice on this I think. I don't know if I'm dealing with it particularly. Well, I'm trying to just think about making the smartest decisions and how do I take care of our team and how do I manage what the business needs technically and then I mean I know this sounds crazy and it's not this is not at all about giving up or. Not Putting our Ford, and fighting for this but I am someone who came from nothing and so I have that in me that scratchiness that I know. If the worst happened, I would just start over not that I want that to happen. Obviously that's the worst case scenario. So you know I think that's how and managing anxiety in my life generally you know instances fear and it's if you go to the worst case scenario in this year and you just make yourself not comfortable with that. But except that that could happen helps manage some of this. That's terrible answer I know. No I think it's absolutely relatable. That's we're kind of answer it is So what is the decision that you've you've decided to make and it seems that other restaurants are starting to make as we enter into these colder months. It's yeah, I mean. So we're I'm hibernating or tiger although I think a looking at it I think I'm convinced that we can do some weekend business for take out. during the winter for Tiger I'm going to completely hibernate or fun for the winter consolidating to speak. So suites will open seven days. He'd been opened five more for seven. And then you know fool's errand was are sort of standing. CAL cocktail wine and canopy bar. So it was a place it came out a couple smacks. In. There and instead of that I've moved all of the bar out of that and there's a full kitchen behind and for all of the moments that I have really just beat myself up for building a full kitchen and they're thinking I didn't need to now it's kind of saving grace. So I'm offering fool, there is an opportunity to have a private dining space. So it's Up to ten people we do custom menus. We can you know and it's you and your family and friends and people in your bubble that you're fairly you're comfortable with the you that you know there's no one else dining. So it takes a fear away from the idea of ventilation systems and masks off and how any transmission might happen that way. So it's just you and. Your people and you have cooks right in front of you. The chefs are there beverage professionals that are happy to talk as little or as much as you want if you want like a spectacular dining experience, we can do that if you just want to have dinner with your family and like be able to be in a face, it feels comfortable and safe we can do that. As, well, introducing card at home, which is having our our chefs, servers beverage professionals come into your home for the holidays and for any other occasion that you might be having for small gatherings and cooking your home. So we can bring the restaurant to you feels more comfortable clean everything up and and leave So we're offering that as well. So you know essentially. Doing a bunch of things we're doing TACO pop up out of the window at fools starting beginning of November for lunch I'm just trying to take all that we have and make sure that we're extending it to our guests and continuing to provide the hospitality and the food that we do you know aside from. The business of this this is what we do and it's what we love to do and there has been. A little bit of like a, you know a joy suck out of this. Working under these conditions. It's so nice to see people in connect with them, but also we can't spend as much time at tables and we have to maintain some distance so. The things that we really love about doing this and if also have been compromised in ways that I don't think we'd anticipated. So trying to really create experiences where we're allowed to connect to our guests in that, you know we can find. The the core of what we enjoy what we love again. We are talking to chef and restaurant owner tiffany phase on that conversation will continue next on eighty nine seven W. G.. B. H. Boston public radio. Welcome back to Boston public radio jared bone sitting in for Marguerite I'm Jim Brady. We're talking to tiffany phase on who's got four unbelievably great restaurants in the fenway, tiffany ask you. This is my obsession. The you guys. You're part of this master restaurant, the united thing or not. Tiffany. Oh. Sorry. Okay. So They are making restaurants independent restaurants in the city and community. They are making really modest requests of the statehouse cap. These obscene usery is delivery fees at fifteen percent allow landlords who give breaks to a restaurant tours a tax breaks from my understanding other than what cities have done allowing more sidewalk space. That sort of stuff essentially beacon hill has done absolutely nothing is that is that accurate? Nothing nothing does that mean that you know? I look at like are you know what should be relief on the federal level and while it's you know uninspiring nothing's happening in some ways I under. I expect it. I. Don't understand it beacon. Hill is much the opposite like it doesn't make sense. This is in your backyard. This is us like the landscape of what Boston Massachusetts will look like we'll change is changing dramatically I think it was easy to stroll the streets of whether it's. Boston or Springfield nantucket whatever and see all these beautiful outdoor Patios, and people put their hearts and souls into them and it feels lovely. It's sugar pill that did nothing I mean. It helped us kind of inch through it. I had extended amounts of dining outside it didn't get close to what I do inside. And I feel like I don't know what it's GonNa take. Like how many more closings hibernation or pleas for help? Are we going to have to. Put out there and really there's no more urgent way to express what we need and I don't feel like any of these requests extravagant or. Do like they're just they're not burdensome in a way that should be difficult or should be debated any further by the way we're also hundreds of thousands of workers in restaurants in this state so it's not just out of. Humanity. But it's also an economic necessity and it's time for this legislature to to do something we only have a minute left journal well, I'll just make this quick. I mean Tiffany, you can speak to this probably better than a lot the fenway area where your restaurants are. Has just been. Completely, revitalized and it's mostly restaurant space because we've seen as most retail has moved online what's come into those street-level spaces but restaurants so How do you describe what happens if the restaurants disappear as it looks like many may be on these streets all over our towns across we have forty five seconds unfortunately. I mean the worst. Scenario is that ultimately independent restaurants who move out the faces will stay open. Then large will have to take what they can get in terms of people that come into the space and you're gonNA look at chain restaurants everywhere. That's what I think might happen. To say this before you go if people care about if you're. Sweet Cheeks Tiger Mom fools are or Is. Your favorite place or any small independent is your favorite place patronize them If they have outdoor go there. If they take out a delivery, do that if you care about them called this pathetic legislature that is doing nothing on anything that matters and say help these restaurants or and their workers as you say, the requests. Are Modest, Hey tiffany we wish you a Lotta lock in your staff a lot of luck and all that sorta stuff and good luck on winner will we'll stay in touch. Right. Thank you be well. Thank you so much tiffany face on his the chef and owner switching, tiger? Mama Fool's errand and or fun. Oh Well, up next California is on fire and president trump doesn't want to see his presidential prospects go up in flames could that be why he's decided to give the state of the state emergency aid national security expert Juliet Cayenne joins us for that and more next on eighty nine, seven Gbh Boston public radio. Ahead on Boston public radio, the messaging around Massachusetts ballot question won the right to repair paints a dire picture on both sides supporters say if it fails small mechanics will be driven out of business opponents. Say they fear a successful initiative would be a massive security risks to individuals, data and just a few minutes reporter steps lease of Mass Live joins us the cut through the noise we know. Jerry billing from Regan recently, president trump has been leaning on Dr Scott Atlas a member of the White House Corona Virus Task Force, rather than other advisers like Dr Anthony Fauci but atlas isn't an expert in infectious disease like vouch and others, and he's spread a number of misleading statements about covert nineteen medical ethicist are Kathleen, joins US for some context behind Dr Atlas. More ahead on Boston public radio. Hour number two, Boston public radio MARGARITAS. The day off I'm Jim Brady and bone executive arts editor Beatrice sitting in for market. Hello Again Jared Jim, kind of spent for thirty seconds before I. Introduce our next guest. NPR. News repeated what we had said you earlier today that the Pope Pretty dramatic and documentary voice support for same sex civil unions. I just want people to juxtapose that good news with an NBC. News report is read during the break Judge Barrett was trustee at private school with anti-gay. Policies. Trinity Schools. Effectively, bar admission to children of gay parents and make it clear that openly lgbtq teachers are not welcome in the classroom. So the pope is Opening, his arms and trying to be more tolerant and on Monday we will have a new spring court justice who was on the board of a school that discriminated against. LGBTQ kids and their families. On that note, join US align over the latest national security headlines Joy, at Kayak Juliet's and analyst for CNN former assistant secretary at the Department of Homeland Security and Faculty Chair the Homeland Security Program at Harvard University's Kennedy School of Government Hello Juliette. Hello can you guys hear me? We can indeed nice to have you. Every last week, we had a little bit of a problem so it was a short. Short throw you disappeared. I now now go at your Beck Well Hi Juliet to one of the big stories is getting traction. Thank goodness because this means that people will understand this and hopefully pay attention to it but there's been this revelation that five, hundred, forty, five children who are separated at the border. Their parents still haven't been found. So just anybody who's looking at a child to think that these children for however long you well over a year maybe in some cases have been in government custody and their parents cannot be tracked down these children are alone tell us. What we are learning about this situation. So You'll remember several years ago under Cureton Nielsen and her team in the court that the White House they started the family separation, the child separation policy as in their words as a means to deter. The family units that were coming up from South America and Central America make a long story short that ended up, you know getting exposed they denied it I said there was no such policy Nielsen Lights, the American public and and the the you know the policy was stopped both through litigation, and then ultimately the trump administration you then has the. D. totally predictable issue is are you reunification problem right? I mean how are you? Who are these kids and how are they going to realize reacquaint themselves I? Guess is the right word with their parents of the parents were still in the United States. So that was just a matter of trying to connect dots or pieces of, but some many had been deported. And of those many we are now left with over five hundred that are the that is basically as and remember this is now this is being done by five, hundred, five, hundred, forty, five children at a dead end. This is being done by. Non Governmental entities Apo you and others said are reporting we so we can't find these families and the children are either in foster care. They might be going or some through adoption services it is and you know you you you take an immoral policy and you implement it immorally and here is where we are. It's. Never seen numbers like this in my head I. Think I thought Oh maybe maybe they'll be a couple dozen a five, hundred, forty, five. That's you know that's a lot of children you know Juliette before we leave this, you know you're the originator of the pace the rage notion were about a supposed to live through. I. Can't pay raise for thirty seconds today and here five hundred and forty five kids the reason this happened as he made clear because the federal government didn't care enough to keep decent records and what's doubly outrageous and unless I'm missing something here. Why is the federal judge in this case saying that the ACLU by the way are doing it and they're happy to try to help the ACLU has the primary responsibility to try to find the parents to reunite the families as opposed to the federal government, which not only separated them but didn't give enough of a damn to try to keep records. So they could be reunited. Why is this not the responsibly the government? Why are they not in contempt if they don't show at least extraordinary efforts to try to get this at all Yeah. So I mean part of it is is My my understanding is, is that I think it was A good faith. Calculation by court that the ACLU with the resources that would be available to them because the government had to help them. would be in a better position to be able to to to reunite but imagine the I had I had this thought about Biden's first day. So Biden. Thought if he wins fight and needs to pick like you know the horrible title of the family reunifications are put the power of the government behind it the resources of the government behind it and appoint an Aclu attorney as that Dr, because you want someone with. We've got fire under their belly, and that person's sole job is to figure out five, hundred, forty, five cases. This is this is the can be done. This is a little bit like Gitmo at the beginning of Obama you point one person to figure out what to do with a thousand people but that's what you need the resources of the government but I just want to also highlight what you said about the government's failure to think through reunification, which was would be obvious from the beginning, what was what was the strategy even if you can argue that the strategy of Separation was was going to be arguably going to have a deterrent effect at some stage, you have to think about reunification and the failure to document have required databases and require that there be you know a single family unit where data is inputted and you knew where their parents word every moment and where the the children were is is quite shocking. I mean it is it just you it? I know I focus on logistics a lot. You know if you're going to have an immoral policy, do me a favor and implemented someone morally so that when you get Back to stop it. Stop it then then maybe we can fix it Let me just say this one has disturbed profoundly to I. I cannot pace the rage either on this because it's just first of all we had to fight to get this information. We're lucky that we know this information. So you wonder how many more than I still remember the moment when I was a child when I was separated from. My mother and a department store that was about twenty or thirty seconds of terror before me to before we were reunited in here I am at my age and I still remember I mean just think if it's your own child or or a child in your family imagine them in those circumstances I don't understand why not everything in everybody's power is being done to reunite children with their families. Right, to know I, mean it was it. Exactly. I mean it is Kirsten Nielsen it. It's her staff. It is John Kelly cheapest comment. It's Donald Trump and his and his staff it is there's and I know there's all these questions now about you know recognise means and should we have truth and reconciliation that the colonel liability against people and you know may those feel like academic? You know naval gazing conversations now 'cause like you. This is the thing where I look I look at these numbers and I think. Why the hell should we forget it I mean wh what what would be the benefit of of forgiving these people for doing I don't understand you. In fact you you want liability you want public accounting so that it's not done get. That's how I feel. Now we're talking to a Juliette let's move to a much more upbeat story the president mocking a governor who was the subject of a kidnapping and murder threat here is you know this? This world is. Here's Lara trump. Who is the daughter-in-law of the present United States on CNN your station defending comments the president made it a reason Michigan rally. This is where I was governor Whitman presides the rally but in the state and then we'll hear some sound from the actual rally. Here's Laura trump and then the president. The president was at a rally into light atmosphere. Of course, he wasn't encouraging people to threaten this woman. That's ridiculous. You gotta get your governor to open up your state. Okay breathe deeply Jim. You tweeted about this and I thought you were spot on what you say Juliette Cayenne. Ice For you, I mean I think with you all to for years you know it's a little bit of a wonky terminate won't it won't take off but what I was trying to document for years I've been writing about is is what Donald Trump is doing specifically it's not enough and I've been urging the media drops the term violence. It is not enough to say that trump incites violence he incites a particular kind. Of violence known as terrorism. That's the use of you know you basically use or threatened use of violence for political or social purposes he doesn't. He does this in a particular way it's called the Catholic terrorism. You can call it random terrorism, which is essentially simply a way of describing how a leader uses his words, his platforms twitter. The rallies to incite his followers in a way in which they gets random enough what? Does he actually I mean think about what is the actual mean by liberate Michigan so that he can have plausible deniability or his daughter-in-law can do plausible deniability and say, Oh, it was just a joke but his listeners know exactly what he is saying right so that you're you're basically some proportion of his listeners are view that liberate Michigan as a as a calling card as a welcome as a as a as A. Not, a condemnation he's been doing this for years. I've been documenting and talking and writing about it for years is just I think the Michigan thing made it sort of take off and so I think you know we need to call it terrorism I? Think the media and the same way that they were reluctant the media that's a big turn but you know what? I mean the people at the beginning of the trump administration. You couldn't get reporters use the word lie now. I. think that they more willingly use the word lie it's not the president lies period that that we need to we need to talk about terrorism rather than violence violence makes it sound like he's just having people go out and loose. All right we are talking. nope no we're we're, GONNA come right. That's for usually we weren't happy with your performance. Sorry Julia we we moved along the pacing were talking to national security expert, Tom? She will be right back. The conversation continues on eighty seven Boston public. Welcome back to Boston public radio JIM Brodie insured bone sitting for Margaret. We were going to be finished with Juliet kind. She was so sad that it was a short segment decided to invite her back. We're talking a national security expert Juliette. you get another chance? Juliette. Right here. Me that you guys. Have you folks raise money of course but I was I was confused by the timing. You know time is all relative when your home as much we all are. Some people bradsby back. Let's say we had at least one more good question for you. To Walk, US through this New York Post story which I think if you look at the timing, well, have you explain it but this is a New York Post story again, tidy tying the Biden's to Ukraine at has the same timing as the Hillary Clinton e mail server this involved emails just that late October surprise that most of the media did not pick up on and walk through. And and what the story was trying to report. Okay. So I'm actually going to push back. I'm not not not on you but a because we've learned a lot since two, thousand, fifteen so and the two, thousand, sixteen playbook this information. To, release unlawful feel whatever emails is, this is a disinformation campaign have discussed in the New York. Post. Rowing media is then jumps to mainstream and so that the issue becomes the issue of the of the fast rather than the disinformation. So I'm just going to focus on the information Rudy Giuliani being used as an agent of a of a of a Russian I've of a Russian disinformation campaign because that is clearly what what is happening even the New York, post is somewhat walking away from the story Rudy Giuliani said publicly two important things he said it. Was Fifty Fifty whether he was Russian disinformation and then last night he said he's not sure all of it is true. So I'm not I'm just you know as someone who's in the space and not and I don't WanNa an agent of a foreign power nor do I want you all to be an agent of a foreign power? The only solution is then therefore not to talk about the substance of it because it is twenty twenty. In other words, the trump campaign is is the same you know colluding with a foreign entity to sow to to disclose. Either true untrue emails I do not know. About a candidate but in two thousand twenty, we don't need to be the same. So this is what I've learned, and this is what I'm urging all the media platforms that Egmont. So now what we know is Giuliani has been walking around Ukraine has been in contact with Russian intelligence agents. The it was so bad that our national security advisor had to notify the president that Giuliani was probably was was the focus of Russian a campaign to utilize him for this information against the Biden family to which we've learned that the that the president just sort of you know said, oh well, that's Rudy Rudy lawyer. And so that's where we are now. So in other words, the story to me is you know the story I think is Rudy Giuliani an agent of a foreign power trump not stopping his lawyer from being an agent of power and the New York. Post. Basically, you know it is owned by Murdoch basically being utilized to be an agency foreign power. We've also learned since the story broke that that there was a big you know Brouhaha with the New York. Post. Because they knew essentially what was happening so that that's how I want the public to understand that there we don't. We don't have to get into the substance of it because simply because there's efficient evidence I first of all, I can't vouch that they're true how do I or maybe maybe summer true and some are not true that you know. But what I do know is true is that the president was briefed by national security adviser that our intelligence agencies. Believe that Giuliani was being used by Russian intelligence. So that's sort of where we are because it's so complicated I. Think it's getting no traction because I think the media has learned including you you all and and and and and responsible platform we. They're not discussing the substance of it except for Fox and the and the right wing, and so it hasn't had the traction. I think that's one of the great stories out of twenty two we actually were prepared for this There was a you know a little bit of discussion about it. There was push back against the mainstream reporter to tweet it the New York Post story. You know because they seem to be you know the amplification is the win. So that's sort of where we are and I you know I look for small. Wins these days but I think this story and the story has traction among people who wouldn't vote for by in any way but it's not having the butter emails traction that that we saw in in twenty, sixteen and I think the proof all does end. The proof of that is trump with on TV yesterday begging bar to start an investigation on this because he knows it's not getting any traction in stream media rose he wants the by NASA in the Biden kid be criminally prosecuted because the stories killing. Exactly. So. This is this is in the people who have platforms learning about how we were used in two thousand sixteen. Well, it's also a cautionary tale about America's mayor now being called by credible people as possible Russian agent it's really A hell of a fall from grace. As somebody who was in the business you're in formerly when you're in homeland security, could you explain if it's anything more than just pure politics? Why trump initially refused emergency assistance to? California. In the wake of the historic fires and then did a flip after newsom Gholam the governor newsom call them well. I mean well I. So we were trying to you know people are trying to get. So just basically the way work is just given the damage in. This is all monetary calculation. There really should not have been any issue here you know FEMA. Determines the disaster declaration standards whether the state would qualify clearly would qualify. As a as a matter of course, they went to spend it. They would've sent it to the White House. So this is what we did seem I was at steam as a component you send it to the White House you say, look these eight declarations today someone must have someone at the White House must've told it out and to highlight to the president or? Basically would stop houses is not something that would have been stopped at FEMA. And people went nuts remind I wanNA remind people. This is exactly the scenario that Pam Carlin the constitutional law professor. Who testified in support of impeachment? This is the exact scenario she warned again she said, can you imagine if the president decided to whether a state would get vaster declaration relief you know based on the politics of the governor and everyone was like well no one would do that. We'll trump. Did it. My understanding just I've been talking to people at FEMA. is actually the the major disaster declaration apply to were were also in Republican districts that he started to hear from Republican. House numbers We need that money and you know the Republican Party in California is quite small. Now there's not that many Republican congressman we're hearing a lot about the Republican Party in California. in some of their shenanigans with mail and voting but and so that's my understanding is is that you know new he? He's happy to go to war with blue governors right now he's got. He's got one on his terrorism. Hitless. And now he wanted to deprive California citizens of of what legally there's. This is not a gift. This is law that allows for a disaster relief declaration. We're talking to Jillian. Yes. That ended yeah. Juliette. We're starting to see a little bit more information about vaccines in distribution. Governor Baker. Here, the the first sense of how will begin to be administered or learning this morning that dry ice is going to be critical especially for one of the one of the first vaccines that will come in the absolute frigid temperatures in which it needs to be contained. So knowing that we're learning now about the distribution again, information just starting to come out how well prepared. Do you think our infrastructure is especially when you get down to details like dry ice and refrigeration? Right. I think we are very well prepared and I. You know this is the warning sign that a lot of you know I. I, Love My scientists and doctors to find a vaccine which have yet everyone but also that the distribution would be much harder than the distribution of water that that we know how to do the president has consistently responded that the military was in charge of domestic distribution of a vaccine that can possibly be true. I think I think that means that they have no plan you you would never have the military get into the scrum essentially of a homeland vaccination program you would. You would. You would do it through public health local and state public health agency. Since the you know the National Governor's Association is pushing back against some of this because they simply don't have the resources or the know how in some instances and and the the federal government has been quite vague in terms of priorities that and what kind of leeway space will have. So this is one of those stay tuned because in the world which I'm looking for good news. This is easily fixable with resources. I mean in other words, the distribution of vaccines logistics is is is not easy by any search imagination you need professionals doing we have those professionals government, but this is one of those. Gosh. With the White House that really cared and the president who understood that we can fix. This is one of those. This is one of those day to don't like I have things that are like worry you know now this is how i. You know, don't worry that's going to get fixed. So this is one of my don't worry that that's going to get fit in the meanwhile though the message, of course, all of our listener this, there's no vaccine and there and and any calculation for how this unfolds with the Boston public schools making their announcement today is that we're talking about mid twenty twenty one to the twenty twenty one feeling normal ish now, this is also where I. WanNa make everyone. Happy. We will get better at doing this. We have a very horrible winter ahead of us, but we're getting better with treatment metality rates per hospitalization are down. We're obviously getting better with how to care people were protecting each other but it requires continuing what we've been doing and I don't know how to say that enough on air in the various ones I have but it's counter to what you're hearing from the White House court. Originally Juliette Cayenne. Thank you. That is this time. Gone. Belly sound exactly. The opposite your next week as we get closer, decide actually will decide if you're good enough w back next week we'll. We'll check your check your email. Okay Juliette. It's great to talk to is always thanks so much for your time. Joins US every week she's an analyst for CNN former assistant secretary at the Department of Homeland Security and faculty chair of the Homeland Security. Program at Harvard University's Kennedy School of Government. Coming up now the cars are more complex Massachusetts is voting on a big expansion of its landmark. Right to repair law we continue our election coverage with a look at ballot question number one that's next on eighty nine seven Gbh Boston. Public radio. Welcome back to Boston Public Radio Jim, Rowdy, Jared Bowen sitting in for Marjorie. We're continuing our election coverage with look the season's ballot questions. Last week, we looked question to those ranked choice voting. Today we're taking on question one, which could strengthen or not the state's landmark to repair law, which forced automakers to make it easier for you to get your car fixed by independent repair place at issue this time around is. Whether the increasingly wireless information transferred between newer car models and dealerships should also be transferable to independent auto repair shops through us. Of course, if you've been watching the campaign ads, it looks like this is a fight between your safety and your consumer rights question one pass in Massachusetts anyone could access the most personal data stored in your vehicle. Domestic violence advocates say a sexual Predator could use the data to stock their victims. Vote No on one keep your data safe. The big automaker's attacks on question one are dishonest fear campaign question one is about protecting consumer choice in car repair it's your car you paid for it. You should get it fixed where you want vote yes. On question one well, that clears things up join us in the law into unpack. What's actually on the ballot is here steps Sali's Steph covers politics state government immigration for mass live new stuff. It's great to meet you thanks so much for being here. For having me I, appreciate it. Hi Stuff. Jim just laid out the the bare bones of this argument, and then we were confused I think even more by the ads that we just heard play as we don't. Massachusetts. There's just been this barrage of ads on either side of this question. So can you just break it down for us with this ballot question purports to do. Absolutely So this ballot question focuses on what's called telematics data You've probably seen mechanics without a yellow or black machine that they connect your car known as the OB deport as far as we know, this data is not that kind of data. This is data that your car sensor depending on how modern your car is. Sense to automakers to as sort of cloud system and that can tell automakers the state of a car brake pads, drivers behavior whether they're crash notifications and other things they can even warn It consumer or the automaker of maybe some issues going on long term with a vehicle. Yes. We. First of all when you hear this, I did a little debate on television less than Greater Boston. It's almost like they're two separate ballot questions, ones about giving choice to the consumer so that he or she to go to local repair shop if they choose here that repair shop allegedly needs this access to these telematics, which they say that aren't have and the other side seems to be selflessly concerned on behalf of the automakers for privacy and I have to say step the thing that I asked repeatedly last night at the vote, No side which I'm not sure I got a clear answer to the language in the question itself. Talks about any vehicle specific data including telematics us for or otherwise related to the diagnosis repair maintenance of the vehicle doesn't talk about location data or other dangerous stuff and the AG summary. The Attorney General always writes a summary of the ballot question, which is you know, and I'm sure listeners do in the voter information guide from the Secretary of State is sent out the every voter in the state it referred uses the term mechanical data six times, and says nothing at all about location data or other sensitive data. So as a reporter on this are they is the No side cooking this issue or is there some possibility that sensitive data is at risk here? It's hard to discern sometimes because of the way, the advertising from the Coalition for safe and secure data has gone At the crux of this, the issue they have is that the original law from eight years ago explicitly excluded GPS data. And the proposed language that will be would be replacing What's in the law right now does not say anything about GPS data. So that's where they're getting this from that said At, least some of the advertising and political science experts I've spoken to agree that jumping from that to advertising about a scary stranger following someone who's alone in an empty parking garages stretch There is some concern from the opposition about how a vaguely the law has been. Britain. But it's worth keeping in mind that the coalition has largely been funded by The big automotive companies GM Hyundai Honda the right to repair. A committee has gotten a lot of Massachusetts support and a lot of smaller donations from Massachusetts mechanics and residents they to however have gotten larger donations millions, the autocare association and a few million if I recall correctly from autozone and Riley. So what did you show on the money I knew they're raising a an obscene amount of money which is perfectly legal. Both sides are not you know that's the way ballot questions aren't it's as I say perfectly permissible what what? Inference can draw from WHO's supporting. Each side I mean should we believe that automakers are really concerned about protecting my data and should we really believed that autozone is concerned on the Yes side about small independent? Repair shops. Okay good question. The only thing I can tell from how much is being raised here and both Both sides here have raised more than twenty, three, million dollars a piece for this and twenty twenty alone that said I mean the mechanics here who have contributed to the rate to repair ballot question they don't know necessarily what data they would get. They would argue however that despite The original law rolling out well that. There are continued issues with getting access to at least some of the equipment. that dealerships usually use it just means that mechanics were independent have to spend more money to get the right software hardware to be able to repair cars at the same level as dealership, and it also depends obviously on the model and make vehicle the only other thing I can determine from the amount of money that's being spent and the number of out of state donors especially that rising in recent weeks is that at A lot of companies are looking at this as something could have a ripple effect in various across the country. Will. Something that caught my eye as I was going through the pamphlet that we're all mailed as a registered voter in Massachusetts was the was the no side pointing out that this has been an issue that's been taken up by a domestic violence prevention group in California quite successfully. Fair correlation between what happened in California and what we're looking at here. experts has spoken Tuesday no and it's also worth noting that the right to repair. Committee. You know they have said that they have no intention to use GPS data the issue being, but it's not explicitly exclude law this time around the California Law that proposal actually had Explicitly requested or proposed GPS data being used and that were was where a lot of the concern was coming from among domestic violence advocates but you know That's a little different here and Jane Doe Distance Itself from the ballot question saying that the. Organization had no idea. It was going to be referenced in the Red Book and that it did not support framing of the advertisement on TV on the No side on the NOSSA. On the news side. All we are talking to Steph. So lease of Mass Live News, the conversation continues on eighty nine, seven, Gbh Boston public radio. Welcome back to Boston public radio I'm Jim Brady, jared bones sitting in for Marjorie Regan. We're trying to break down question won the right to repair doing steps. Lease is written about covers, politics, they government and other things for mass live news. So. How much do the proponents need this? Again, we're looking at this as you. Massachusetts already to pass this right to repair for the smaller. Shops who want access to this information so that it's not just the domain of big major dealerships how consequential is this to the smaller mechanics chops It doesn't make a big difference right now and some of those who claim that This could lead to the collapse of an industry are as independent mechanics go are. Not, correct at least as of the present moment whether it could become consequential in five to ten years. However is another question. It really depends on How what? Vehicles look like the next five or ten years whether they're increasing the amount of data that customers can see especially with BMW and Chevy and other companies Creating APPs for their drivers So it, it's hard to tell right now Th really we're. We're we're deciding something that. where the implications won't be known for. At least a few years. One of the things I don't get I used to ballot questions for living I don't know twenty plus years ago. So I dealt with the legislature. Everybody knows I- Sumer Renos, you gotta run it through the legislature and if they don't pass it, these are law changes as opposed the constitutional. Changes. Then you can proceed to the ballot kind of thing. The final question I asked the two sides last night. It. That I don't get the the data argument is the young people say don't worry. This language does not cover your sensitive personal data. The No side says, our concern is protecting your personal sensitive data and the language written by the proponents is not clear enough. So what I asked, both of them was unless they're total BS ING. They allegedly have totally common interest is to do everything they can to protect. My urine jared's personal sensitive data from being captured by anybody. If that were true, it seems to me that they should be going to the legislature and saying clarify the language as you said, a minute ago Steph while the language does specifically referred to mechanical data. It doesn't explicitly exclude GPS that location data, that sort of thing. Well, that could be clarified in two minutes and you wouldn't have to spend sixty million dollars and in and they both Dan with all due respect to the two people they both danced around while they would want to. They wouldn't go with us. That's a waste of time, etc.. Doesn't that lead you as somebody who's covering this thing to suggest. We're missing something here. It seems to me automakers who were funding the the No side or hiding behind the sensitive data thing because they don't want independent repair shops a competing and I don't know what it says about the side because it seems to me, they could include language that explicitly excluded GPS. And then that issue would be pretty much taken away. From the other side, am I being unfair to both of them by concluding that Steph? I wouldn't say that. I I wouldn't say you're being unfair. They're just a lot of unanswered questions here I will say that relying on the legislature to make these changes might seem tough. If only because we all know the pace that which just leave your functions. I mean. We're well into an extended session and there are multiple. Conference committees on major issues, but if not gone resolved. So. When either side talks about the difficulties in dealing with the legislature there that I can understand But. The this is definitely something that's going to need some sort of. Clarification down the road. The legislature or the office or whoever ends up being the person to make those clarifications are going to have to determine Okay. What is the standard here? and. The ballot question to mention A. Mobile APP. But it does not explicitly say who would be in charge of making this mobile APP a lot of people on the Yes. Side say it's the automakers the automakers or at least the organizers of the Coalition for safe and secure data argue well. We weren't told we have to make this APP I mean they have the capability and they have the capability in some cases to make an encrypted but they argue on one hand, it's it's very. Difficult to get competing automakers to agree on many things getting them to agree on a standard for a telematics mobile APPS. might be increasingly difficult. Well, there's also another issue that's been raised is that the twenty to twenty twenty, two model year? I. Think Objective people are saying which is in the proposed ballot question. It's not achievable. It's too soon. So the legislature would have to address that issue as well and you know it again, a lot of the lack of clarity could be resolved. The legislature has the ability and I think your analysis about their inaction as accurate the ability to pass a law that's conditional that says if ballot question one is the pass x what happens. So the point is they had a ton of time to do these things. So there was glaister greater clarity for the voters rather than confusion, which is the environment in which people have to cast their ballot with. Unfortunate but again, I, think you're right to suggest. We should count on the legislature. These days is a fool's errand. So any case Steph. Thank you so much something. Look good. Oh sorry. Gone you go ahead. Say something's definitely need to be clarified and you know maybe it'll just be up to the legislature no matter how efficient that is well up to the voters first and then maybe the legislature if there's a yes, that's true. Steph thanks a lot. We really time. Thanks. Thank. You so much. So he's covers politics, state government and immigration for Mass Live News. Coming up, we're going over the latest corona virus headlines with medical ethicist. Art Caplan keep your dial on eighty, nine, seven, Gbh Boston, public radio. and. Welcome back to Boston Public Radio Jim Brady jared bones sitting in for Marjorie when it comes to acknowledge ing scientific facts about Corona, virus from her immunity to the effectiveness of wearing masks White House Task Force member Doctor Atlas Shrugs even though twitter had intervened to keep Dr Atlases misinformation from spreading president trump is fixated on demeaning and de legitimizing true defender Science Dr Anthony Vouch Join US online talk about this and other medical headlines, are Kaplan Artists Doctors, William FM. Virginia. Connolly, Mini Chair, and director of the division of Medical Ethics at Nyu School of Medicine, there are Kaplan. Hello. Hi Arts, and now that You know president trump and Kim Jong UN or best friends it seems that the natural sworn enemy in these final days of the campaign is going to be Dr Anthony Fauci has more public support. It seems according to polls in the president who the president would just using a couple of weeks ago in his own ads suggesting that found she was supporting the president has a presidential candidate but he has Again, Donald, trump ratcheted up the language against. Vowed she. What do we see happening here? Well I still think the president's biggest vulnerability is it and I think the biggest source. Bad News about his mismanagement of Kobe's Anthony FAUCI. So in one sense, it makes sense that he's going after Fau. I think he's basically saying look folksy bungled Cova de fide followed. What he said things would have been worse you know and that's when he gets off on the. Stop people from coming from China. He told me not to wear masks of a so. I I'm not totally shocked I've been expecting turn on foce. He hasn't been able to bully him as much but to me, it's pure politics because it's basically just saying I gotta get out of the bind them in says trump and if I can diminish. Then I can say you know I. I really was in charge and do the right thing managing cove it. You know I hear that but we asked both John King and Chuck Todd and last week about these attacks on foundry it seems to me if you're an adviser to Donald Trump, not that anybody advises and he listens the last thing you do is that tax somebody who quote works for you? WHO's the most trusted person in America on the most important issue to voters so it may be politically motivated maybe because foul chat great interview on sixty minutes and trump's was horrible interview purportedly we'll see Sunday night with Lesley Stahl. It's on counter intuitive but counterproductive for trump to be trash and the one guy the American people seem to trust art. Yeah I agree with that. I mean, why not just say nothing about. And Proceed ahead and let felt you make his points. Well. You know there's another. I don't know if you read this other piece there million of them, actually about how one of the the victims of this Har- besides the two hundred and twenty thousand people are neighbors so far in this country. Is Trust in government science when I read the most recent Pew poll about the percentage of Americans who are readily saying, they'll take the vaccine when it's available and it's now down to twenty one percent. That's the casualty of trump's relentless campaign and Even. If you don't trump a trust trump's message about the foundries of the world, you don't trust trump either and again, the collateral damage is that people like you who spent a lifetime trying to convince people to believe in science don't and the consequences could be deadly. Absolutely remember if we get a vaccine and we don't get a lot of people breaking it, then a lot of the. Impact of the vaccine is gone because we have to get so-called herd immunity make it hard for the virus to jump from person to person. So part of the power of vaccines that protects you but port of stops infection. So when people start to say forget it, I'm not taking a vaccine that's horrible news for Science Horrible News for getting you using vaccine to help us get out of this pandemic Yeah. Trump is really done severe damage. He's beaten up the CD's beaten up the FDA's gun after foul g he definitely put on the sidelines, his own task force right remember them the coronavirus task force we do indeed here from they seem to be. Isolated somewhere on Elba not not talking to US anymore surgeon general. nope don't hear much from him anymore. So he's basically said you know I'm going on the anti-science platform I don't care about the experts you know to me I. Don't know what you guys think but to me politically, that's good for riling up his base which doesn't want to believe in co vidor finds it just. Intolerable to go through these restrictions on behavior but I don't think it's swings votes toward him I. Don't think it's the way or election victory. In. Terms of restoring public faith in science. It occurs to me that maybe maybe we have a salvation and the fact that this is a international. This is a global effort. So while people in this country might have doubts at this very moment once the vaccine start to be administered around the world and people see how other countries are administering them and hopefully with some measure of success. Do, we expect that that might just change the tide here quickly as we realized that jared I think that's a great point and I agree with it. I think what's going to happen is the polls will flip. Efficacy and safety. From vaccine campaigns from other parts of the world or even here in some particular states. Localities where perhaps vaccine uptake big where I am in Connecticut there's a lot of skepticism about vaccines because people don't like trump. It's not that they don't like vaccines they just think trump is hustled sci he's pushing too hard to get an approval. You can't trust the science not because I hate vaccines it's because trump is manipulating the approval but. If we get a vaccine in. Say State like this Then I. Think you're going to see people come back and say, okay okay. I. Can Trust the science it seems to be working seems to be safe. So I do think that pull is. The, the the numbers are scary but I hope tenuous. You know one last thing a vaccine and science reminded me about tests and science. We ask you a couple of weeks ago. What's the status of these really rapid tests including the ones that we theoretically could do for ourselves sending something and twenty four hours later or whatever it is we get a result. How close are we making these available? There's some pretty good rapid testing that might even be home testing coming down the line and. The manufacturers of those home tests that kind of work like a pregnancy test you know sort of get a strip and you read it. If, we could push in that area I've said this here before a number of times I think even less than perfect home testing if you just repeat it and saw that you were positive repeated it many times and so that negative that would really help us work our way out of this pandemic. How imminent when you said imminent you didn't say hadn't months. Yeah months. Okay. So can we move even though neither of you even snickered when I said Dr Atlas shrugged I was very disappointed inside I was. I heard it sort of low hanging fruit on the PUN scale. But okay well, that's really more demeaning art. But in any case here is Dr Scott Atlas. Most people know he is not an epidemiologist he has no experience in treating infectious diseases. Here he is on blaze TV last week making the case that young and healthy people should embrace the virus We should be fine with letting them get infected generating immunity on their own and the more immunity in the community. The better, we can eradicate the threat of the virus including the threat to the four vulnerable. That's what herd immunity is or is the president calls herd mentality I. Believe is what President Calls It, and we all know all the scientists including in Massachusetts. The overwhelming majority of said, this is total crap. It's GONNA lead to millions of deaths, but I want to focus on something more recent with him. Everybody knows that he tweeted he being this atlas character tweeted where mass question mark no with capital letters and twitter to its credit took it down Admiral Gerard. If that's how you pronounce his name actually grew a few if you'll excuse the expression and tweeted himself where mass yes. In capital letters explained to me and I know, I ask you the same tired kind of question every week art why Dr Atlas still have a medical license after a Tweet to the. People health information that is. Totally, antithetical to their personal health I don't get it at all. Yeah you're never gonNA lose your license overtaking an opinion that is controversial that you say has backing from science I've never heard of anybody losing a license that way you really have to go to the point where you could say he killed Jim because Jim didn't wear mask infected and died this sort of vague. You know I don't think we need mass I can get hurt immunity and let me by the way we've said it again and again. It would be a great idea to get hurt immunity but we have no idea whether we build immunity to the COVID virus. So even if you get it, you might be resistant to infection for a little bit but then maybe not you know we get cold winter right? This is in that class virus and You don't really get immune forever or even for season to a cold. So that's GONNA be a problem potentially for vaccines. Hopefully, they'll build enough resistance at get us through the season but what atlas says is Kinda. It's really bunket junk but I boy it's hard to Yank a license for having the. Hyper minority incorrect you. Let me just stay on this for one. I'd make the case that when you see interviews on television, every single night were someone says while you're not wearing a mask while the president told me I didn't need one. Well. If the president told you, you didn't need one. Would you wear it? Yes, I would I think he can make the connection we all know that. This. is a deadly behavior. We know this guy's got a platform that is almost as if the president is introducing him every time he speaks. So it seems like it's almost an invitation to irresponsibility as well. You remember he was a petition circulated I think a couple of hundred other doctors and scientists signed on basically to the idea that maybe you could build her immunity by you know letting young people just get exposed that's enough to protect them. He he just needs a sort of slice of the minority to agree with him. Even if they're wrong in the end, the main experts real experts don't agree. So now I don't think we're getting there that. We're not, GONNA. have his license on the Pike. Try again next week. Shrug. I'm now are we supposed to laugh at that like the mind? It's to with. We do. Actually. Aren't going to Jim's point what has become of the coronavirus task force. We see Dr Chee Marginalized and in popping up now flanked by the security that he needs because he's receiving death threats, Deborah burks was here in Massachusetts meeting with top officials recently. But then you have th the loudest comments released the the media's covering them amplify them from Dr Atlas Oh what's left of the leadership as you see with this task force. Much they seem to inform them out. They only meet once a week they get minor problems to wrestle with they're not playing a key role. Well with Atlas at head of IT I'm glad they're not playing a key role because just speaking for myself every time he speaks I for one I shrugged but that's a whole other. Thank you. Thank you very much. You know before we take a break here you're challenge child kind of guy under appropriate circumstances or you're not. Remember correctly in for a while we thought. So could you describe this what what's happening in the UK that we should know about? So the challenge trials are deliberately infecting young people with the virus who volunteer in order to test vaccines more quickly the big trials that normally get done thirty thousand and sixty thousand people rely on nature to infect people who've gotten the experimental vaccine, but it takes a long time. To accumulate enough data to see whether it's doing anything whether it's safe Partly, it depends on how prudent the people who got the experimental vaccine they wearing masks in avoiding getting infected, which they have to do. Because you don't know if the experimental vaccine is going to help anyway deliberately giving a couple of hundred people the Corona virus and then. You know testing the experimental vaccine post exposure. That would give us faster answers that would also allow us to do something else Jim which is. You can compare vaccines that looked promising. One of the things we're going to face is is GONNA be let's hope two or three of these approved but which one is the best is going to be hard to determine and you know. The fastest way to get an answer to that would be to use them a challenge study knowing they're both partly effective, but we're trying to see which one is better. People hate it. There's objection they say infect people deliberately with the disease that could harm or kill them but. There's a lot of risky things that go on out there I defended the idea that if they really do volunteer than heroes should be allowed to do it. I think I'm with you. we're talking to medical ethicist art caplan. The conversation continues on eighty nine seven Gbh. Boston public radio. Welcome back to Boston public radio jarred bone sitting in. For Marjory, I'm Jim Brady and if you're just tuning in, we're talking to medical ethicists Kaplan. Forgot that it was me I. Really the part of Marjorie here. We're going to move to the Netherlands. In Britain for the challenge trials that we're talking about, and now the Netherlands where I think a lot of people look at this with a great deal of interest in. The Netherlands considering or I guess moving forward allowing doctors and the lives of Termi terminally ill children. Obviously, this is a huge contingent contentious issues with issue with adults alone children. Absolutely this is quite the. Medical Ethics story if we weren't in the middle of plague in an election and trying to figure out what to do with schools and other matters. We would be all talking about this. So the Netherlands has now basically by. Government dictate. They've permitted people to be helped to die who are. Afflicted with incurable suffering not terminal illness just terrible suffering. They've also allowed it to be done with newborns who they say are suffering. With no ability to control it, and now they've said we're going to include kids from if you will one day eighteen. There aren't many of these cases, but usually controversial obviously because it means that these are people children who can't request help dying you're going to be. If, you will parental parish permission to do it, and that will trigger objections at this is euthanasia not assistance in dying because you're making a decision for someone to put them to death. Here, just to remind everybody, we have some states that have legalized assistance in dying, but the trigger is terminal illness not suffering you can't do it on anyone who's not capable of consent that would exclude anybody under eighteen they can't request it. So we're a long way from where the Netherlands is. The question is, are they doing something completely immoral and are we going to start if not? Are we going to start moving in that direction where you're quoted the New York Times piece explaining why I think I don't WanNa Miss Car drives your position. One of the reasons why we have such a hard time even talking about this thing is because there's such little trust in the healthcare system. Here. As opposed to places like the Netherlands is that a fair description of what you said very fair time concisely tried to say it might be nice to create a universal right to health care before we get into the issues about when can a doctor kill you? It might be nice to make sure he can treat you. So there are plenty of communities out there. I'm sure who distrust Healthcare Lot we see in some of those vaccine serve as we were talking about over there I don't trust the science. People saying, I don't trust any doctor the saints time for me to Let my child be killed because they're suffering I? Just don't believe them. So how do you feel about this This I'm just GONNA say experiment it's not as jared said, it's going to happen how do you feel about the development in the Netherlands? Don't think we're ready for it I think they may be because. Everybody's got healthcare small country. The doctors know the patients there Constantly in conversation communications good tiny number of. Maybe, they can make sense out of that part of me says though if it's really suffering, you could use medications and really control suffering and then let death happen some people going to argue why bother if the whole point is to let to have happened and why not? Increase it but I I see where they're going. It's just not a situation that I think is ever well, no time soon is coming here because of our broken health care system distrust by many of doctors in what they're saying and you know we're more of a religious country than Holland. So there's going to be religious objection that you know it's not up to doctor in anybody's life. Well, we see here A-, these issues end up in the courts. With basically, a dividing line between. What somebody's quality of life is so how how do we get the sense of Netherland does another lund's does determine that and we see this happening to some degree in in Belgium as well from from what I saw in the New York Times piece right and it may be moving that Wayne candidate interestingly enough there debating which way to go more like us or more like. The Netherlands. Still haven't settled it it's doctors expertise drives. That's the answer jared it's up to the doctor to say I can't. This is terrible suffering I can't control it. Easily, So I'm? GonNa make the call and I think in the Netherlands they ask for a confirmation by another doc but that's it a medical judgment. So our Kaplan. I lost my argument with you a couple of minutes ago about the atlas having his license. Removed can we talk about the president's doctor for second? You wrote a piece. About you know the whole issue obviously a patient has a right confidentiality. It's absolute unless you wave at Cetera but is there a separate sort of higher good those longer words but I think people know what I mean when comes to the president of the United States and the public's need to know and that sort of thing. And you differentiate as well. You should between failing to give information and affirmatively lying I would argue that Conley actually the doctor actually did lie. In those pathetic press conferences. So could you give us the tutorial? What should the rules of the road be when it comes to a sitting president and US knowing about his or her health condition? So, let me argue the president's different is that job for he or she is just in a different role in terms of what it means to the country world and so on. It's not the same as. Our Kaplan's privacy. The. Presumption is of privacy. That's when all the codes of ethics say that's what the law says and you basically don't have to reveal anything and your doctor shouldn't unless you give permission but. If the president's disabled if the president's GonNa take drug that impairs them. If the president's GonNa, be unable to do the job. I do think we need to build something into the law that says we need to be able to hear that rather the president wakes it or not. And I'd say this if you knew that the president wasn't able to do the job or you were fearful of his mental state or disability intellectual disability. I think you have to speak up I think you have to break the presumption of ethics and law and be a conscientious objector objector and say look We're in trouble here because I don't care what the White House spin is I don't think he can do the job. If the doctor lies and I agree with you I think they gave us a rosier picture of what was going on with him because that's what the White House wanted. UNETHICAL, that might be a loss of license by the way. If you withhold or say I can't say or I'm bound not to talk. Okay. That is. That is the stance you're supposed to take, but it just seems to me for presidents maybe vice-presidents. Throwing attitude. You know you've been pushing for what for a long time and I am totally with no Marjorie is to around issues of an obligation of candidates of the major parties to disclose far more and you've talked about mechanisms that are fair and objective around this sort of thing, it seems to me that obviously nothing's happened now, not only because the elections thirteen days away but obviously, it would seem like an indictment of trump you know Joe Biden is going to be seventy eight years old if he's seventy eight years old whether he's President or not it seems to me he could really take the lead on this thing because one some people are concerned about a guy starting the hardest job in the world with seventy eight years old and number two what better person to take a lead on the issue. Then a person who actually may be the subject of that disclosure. He can't question his motives as opposed. The question is most absolutely agree the timing on this is perfect He's old enough that we're concerned he's old enough that we don't have to be concerned just because he's seventy eight. The Actuary charts? Are We know what the predictions are He'll be eighty mid midway through his term and so on. So. I'm not saying that's not a reason to vote for him and I've said that many times to that you have situations where people can You know decide I don't care how old the guy is or I love the vice presidential candidate and that's how it's going to be but Look. None. The less it's gotta be a situation where sorry sorry Locker Conley calling me to say never bad mouth him looking to happen I. Couldn't find my button there to set that thing off I think it's important to Get this done if it's ever going to get done, it's going to be a biden presidency and the and what we're talking about to get Dylan is just a point, an independent non-partisan panel. To Review candidates health when they declare and are serious presidential candidates and then once a year sites from the presidential physical. Let's get the independent panel to report on the President's health and A. Transparent and thorough way not just coming up and saying you know he's the healthiest guy ever seen or. You know he can run a marathon that that's not a report on the president's health. Well, you've got our sport which is worth absolutely nothing. Relations on that bridge to certainty now. Are Kaplan, it's great to torches always thanks art I'm just disappointed. I'm disappointed ringtone wasn't saint elsewhere er or mass. Listen I never watch that stuff I get enough of it were never. Medical ethicists are Kaplan joins US every week. He's the Doctors William FM Virginia Conley. Midi Chair and director of the division of Medical Ethics at the Nyu School of Medicine Art. Always great to talk to you. Thank you so much. Welcome back to Boston public. Radio Jim Brady and Joe Bone sitting for Marjorie. If you're just tuning in, we were taking Kohl's shop the show about schools in the are of covid. and. Now that everyone from teachers, the parents to students are well-versed in remote learning, physically distance in person learning and the hybrid or whatever it is. We want to know what's working for you. What isn't what changes would you make? This is prompted by. The announcement this morning by the city by the city, of Boston, that because of the spike in positivist rates, almost six percent. Average that even the twenty six, hundred high needs kids who are getting in person learning would switch to remote hundred percent remote for everybody for at least two weeks in Boston, Because of this covid situation and we have we had a lot of incredible calls every you know you and I have done this a lot in the times we've been together jared starting in the summer and there not been one segment where the calls. From again, teachers, kids themselves parents family members community has not been powerful. We got a call this morning I. Think the guy's name was Tony from Worcester. About his special needs daughter and how tough life has been for the family provide attempting to provide as well. They can't education. To their kid and it was heartbreaking and he made the case. So powerfully for how important schools are in lives of everyone but particularly high needs, kids and we're letting him down often through no fault of our own some people think through the fault of not enough planning not enough resources not enough leadership we wanna know what you think eight, seven, seven, three, zero, one, eighty, nine, seventy we're going to stay with this. Until the end of the show you can eat tweet us if you want it be pr at a pardon me it's at O. S. public radio or emails B. B.. R. A. W. G. B. H.. This is heart rending every time we have this conversation and it really does seem to vary widely from district to district and. We we've moved from the uncertainty and just the fear that comes with uncertainty that people head all throughout the summer as they weren't really sure how or when they would launch back into the school season, and as we've been hearing from our calls already in a lot of coverage over just the past month. It's been a very rocky start that this is a situation that's fraught with difficulty and not knowing where it's going to go next. Stemming back to this announcement from the Boston public schools today that they are dialing back going to remote because this is a direct reflection of the surge that were experiencing maybe the second wave in this area, and until the rate of infection COMES DOWN IN BOSTON people won't be able to go back to any in person learning, and so parents are having to negotiate these really rough waters of how are they going to be at home? How are the kids going to learn in school and what is the content of what they're learning as we heard from people today to they're not absolutely certain that their days are filled and it does vary from district to district. Eight seven, seven, three, zero, one, eighty, nine, seventy, my call screen is dead by the way jared said some point you should feel free to take schools and by the way. I I would say the vast majority of people I haven't done a scientific analysis in all parts of school systems and leadership are trying to do the best they kit they can. But it's clear. There's been inadequate planning inadequate training some because people have been far too half asked about this leadership some because the resources just aren't there the fact that there is not a congress that is willing to send money to cities and states to help them deal with these budget shortfalls and to. Protect at the same time, the President United States is sending them back to school, send him all of school money for states, virtually all of which are in deficit so that they can take care of the kids and the people who work in the schools safely. So it is a real mess from the top in the White House on down and the sufferers are the kids you know that that I think it was Tony who said it and I think other parents other parents do. DC, this is a lost year despite everybody's best efforts for most people's best efforts in the answer is unfortunately, yes eight, seven, seven, three, zero, one, eighty, nine, seventy, and it would be obviously a very controversial idea. But and you referenced that when we were talking about this earlier about this piece of was written in the globe and others are talking about that that there maybe there does come a point at which I don't know if it's throwing up your hands but which you pivot and you decide this is going to be a gap year. We're going to take this year that we can't find fruitful education and and try to manufacture education in other ways whether it's community service. Or some other kind of life experience and return to education in return to school when it is as we knew it and we see this from parents see from students we we see this from teachers I was stuck to read in one community where teachers basically have to divide their classrooms in half to limit the school size, which of course, means at the end of the day they're teaching the same lesson plan twice in some ways just doubles the amount of work that they're doing, and of course, if you realize your teacher is teaching the same lesson plan twice that's less time. They can spend individually with you one on one or in the classroom as we keep saying, it's just there are so many problems with this and there wasn't the planning. But at the same time, I have a great deal of sympathy for all of these people who are trying all the educators and administrators who really have to make this up as they go along because of course, there have been no clear answers and a pandemic eight, seven, seven, three, zero, one, eight, nine, seventy. Can we take? Kohl's I'm not clear about where we are somebody could give me a little guidance somewhere. Can we take Rachelle on melrose or we can't take her show? We can't. Okay. Why don't we take a break right now when we come back, we will take your phone calls at eight, seven, seven, three, zero, one, eight, hundred, nine, seventy. Okay, we are where it seems like we've figured out our our apologies, and so that's that's good Rochelle calling from Melrose High Rochelle Rochelle. Are you. This is a subject that I see from both sides. I have family members with special needs. I have a neighbor who has down syndrome granddaughter and she her neighbor next door is a retired special needs teacher. So if it wasn't for her She doesn't know what her daughter you know her her how her daughter granddaughter would do, and then my daughter is also a special needs teacher in Everett and. I. Feel felt for her because I would get calls from her saying she is still frustrated with the system not getting AIDS ready in time, and now she does it through zoom but she spends time at the beginning of the year teaching the parents, how to use the computer and a lot of them were non English speaking. So it was just very, very stress stressful from both sides so that gentleman that called at the beginning I was in tears when I heard his frustration because I'd. Hear it in my family from all my members I here for my daughter and I hear from my other daughter who has a perfectly healthy daughter and she's doing it while she works from home her husband works from home and she has to sit by her because she's in first grade. So she has to do it every morning for four or five hours. It's like another full time job. Essentially, we hear the Rachelle thank you for all around you who were doing important things. We thank you. So much for the call and by the way Rachelle said, you know a lot of training for people who are not used to using computers not used to using zoom none of us. We're used to using zoom before this. How about the people who haven't even logged on I? Mean there are in particularly in urban school districts. There are thousands and thousands and thousands of kids who've been lost to the system for whatever reason there is a lot of Rachelle was mentioning was that her kid I can't remember who was Abe was required really to sit with her child through the school as I mentioned Shirley the. Young from the globe said to us yesterday. A lot of people can't afford to do that single parents can't afford do that people are financially strapped can afford to do that the gotTa work they gotTa go do at they're lucky enough to have a job. So every direction in which you turn, this has been a nightmare even in the districts that are the most caring the most well prepared. Everybody out sadly, as a loser, the numbers eight, seven, seven, three, zero, one, eight, hundred, nine, seventy, and we are talking about the classroom in the era of covid. The conversation continues on eighty nine seven Gbh Boston public radio. Welcome back to Boston public radio I guess to quote the president we are rounding the turn or whatever. The hell it is. He says, which is untrue but we are throw last segment we're GonNa continue our discussion today about how the coronavirus has upended the classroom whatever that classroom means for you. Is it working for you get a hybrid system of you're lucky enough to be an in person system that is safe. There aren't many right now or you all remote is Boston is about to become yet again, tomorrow morning for at least a couple of weeks is it working if it's not working you're frustrated what might work have you thought this through and how dealing with this psychologically the. Difficulty. I. Mean if you have a young kid who's in K. through twelve and you realize that how important that is that there'd be a continuity of learning and you're torn jared I gotTA do my job or I gotTa do you know take care of apparent whatever the hell it is and you gotta be sitting with your kid or hoping that? If he or she goes to school, they're safe. The stress level has got to be out of control to every way you turn it is it is so hard. You just maybe one of the most salient points to I thought which is the Boston public schools are not easing people back at home they they recognize the numbers. Today is March tomorrow. Very abrupt pivot. So to to talk about that continuity, I just saw this this piece in the new earlier this week about looking at the mental health of kids which have already is already concerning to people, and then you have these consistent disruptions which make it even worse. Let's go to Tony in Cambridge. Tony. Thanks for your Beijing's welcome. I just wanted to share with you. Some of my experience was I've been teaching online for about fifteen years at the college level. But there's so many similarities here. And I felt my health for people have an overview of some of the challenges and I identify three issues one, the platform that's being used. One big problem or issue is it's constantly changing. So It presents some real challenges but people to learn it. To give you an example, let's say you go to. Food shopping and every time you go there are every week or so they change move around all the products. That's kind of what's happening in the online platforms was number two he. Number two is the teachers the challenges they face in learning what it's all about I've been in fifty years and just this week alone we have to have four hours of training on some changes that the school is implementing. Of course, you're being asked to change on a dime as to change the way you've been teaching your whole career that obviously play what's number three? and. The three, the students if facing a brand new learning model. So they've spent their lifetime seven, eight, ten, twelve years, one learning model and all of a sudden that's changing. So I think we're giving the students enough support in that respect. So we need to support the teachers. And the students and just want to share one I. Think weekly if you come was. Invaded where they're setting up live in online, but in pods of six students, so really give some support interaction. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you for sharing your experience. We really appreciate it. Welcome. And we continue talk about the coronavirus in schools in and Let's go to Patricia calling from Werrom. Patricia. We're a little short on time Patricia but take it away. Patricia you're there. She is apparently not there and we're about to run out of time. You know I know it's frustrating when we start something like this, and there's so many people have so much. Say I promise you we will return to this regularly as days in the weeks go ahead and next week. As I said, we're GONNA Emily oster professor of economics I believe Economics Brown University. Who did the study that got national play last week about how schools? Again, in non red zone communities I'm assuming sure saying are not super spreaders like thought they're actually quite safe. So will here another angle in the school story at least in safe communities with her sometime next week on Boston, public radio sets it chart have a couple of people who wanNA thank Alya. Let's Thank our crew Chelsea Murs Zoe Matthews Hannah. You believe Aidan. Connolly. Our engineers John. The club Parker Dave. Goldstein Miles Smith are the engineers who run our remote studios and thank you for listening to another edition of Boston public radio. You can tune in tomorrow for Andrea Cabral Chuck Todd with presidential debate preview and NFL Director and CEO Matthew Teitelbaum. Now, Graham is open. Because you, I'm really glad he's joining us. So. Yeah. We have a couple of really important things tonight. One Gilani COBB IS GONNA. Join us from frontline in the New Yorker. Talk about it's terrific frontline piece I believe it's called whose vote counts and also whose vote doesn't count. It's about voter suppression focusing on history and Historian and Wisconsin in particular but its applicability across the board earlier this year just in route was. Killed by the police his sister and his father who believed justice did not prevail in terms of the ultimate determination by district attorneys and others. In this case, they will join me to make their case I'm GonNa talk a little bit about the juxtaposition of what the Pope had to say about civil unions and what we learned about today and what we learned a judge Barrett. Did as the trust, the of a school that discriminates against the GDP families. And something else is happening but I cannot tell a lie I've forgotten what it is, but it's pretty good show at the patch show tonight at seven o'clock on Greater. Boston jared it's always a pleasure to have you. Here and it was great today as well and look forward to tomorrow. Thanks so much for your time. I am Jim Brady and Jerry Bohan. Tomorrow.

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BPR Full Show 9/15/20: 'A Voice of Justice'

Boston Public Radio Podcast

2:45:17 hr | 8 months ago

BPR Full Show 9/15/20: 'A Voice of Justice'

"Support for Boston public radio comes from DC you offering a checking account with three levels of benefits. You can visit one of their twenty, two locations throughout Massachusetts and New Hampshire to learn more what will dc you mean to you insured by NCUA membership required. Head on Boston public radio we'll speak with Attorney General Maura Healey then Governor Deval Patrick about the legacy of late. Spring Judicial Court. Chief Justice Ralph Cancer died yesterday his tenure mistake ties court was marked by ever reform and expand access to justice for everyone particularly poor people and people of color. It was just one game but astor debut lost to the Tampa Bay buccaneers sports. Fans can't help but wonder Tom Brady's magic, somehow gone and with professional sports graph into meet this moment racial reckoning south became the first NBA team drop significant cash to fight racial social injustice in their community committing twenty five million over the next ten years. We'll talk all this over with NBC sports reporter training scenario that Moore's ahead on Boston Radio Eighty nine seven, G H. You're listening to Boston public radio eighty, nine, seven, Gbh good. Morning Jim. Thank you too. So the death of Supreme Judicial Court chief justice off Ganz leaves a whole legal community as a champion of progressive causes dedicated his career to reconciling law of social justice join US online to remember him the Marquis made Massachusetts as attorney. General Maura. Healey. More hilly. Thanks for giving us a few minutes. We really appreciate it. Good Morning Jim. Good. Morning, Marjorie. Thank you. For being with us. So tell us. About judge gas, he was beautifully described in the obituaries a man of great generosity spirit and eloquence. What else can you tell us? Well. There are a lot of things that he did that people never saw that I think really speak to the kind of person that the chief of and you know he was known for his incredible work ethic. It would not be unusual. The last person to leave the courthouse every evening he'd walked down the street and the dark with his backpack on and his red sox cap on any go into the garage where he was beloved by all the guys who worked in the garage in fact, he invited them to his swearing in he did really. Oh Yeah I mean he was just a released. Tumble humble person and I think another thing is that he had inc.. Really intentional acute focus on the law and the rule of law in people's lives I mean, he said up established really the access to justice commission, how we looking to improve and further legal services for those in need he commissioned that recent report on racial disparities in the justice system. The last conversation I had with him I. Give a few days. Ago and he was joking about the red sox and kind of the bummer season that he and they were having and I was are less text exchange, but the last conversation with was about. Six weeks ago he called so concerned about what was going to happen with evictions when the Eviction Moratorium lit lists, and so he was establishing a working group to the courts. And those in and the legal community to figure out how we're going to deal with the onslaught of addictions because He cared so much about what was going to happen to families both landlords and tenants, and you know he was working so hard on that issue all through the summer and even during the time is on his. Recent vacation and people probably. Just as against was the first, he wrote a Superior Court judge remember the subprime meltdown to thousands. Yes. Yes. I memorized just started working in the office that time and. There are a Lotta losses brought against some of the big banks and the mortgage servicers who played really fast and loose the rules. He was the judge who wrote one of the nation's seminal decisions on the principle that it's unfair for a lender to make a loan to somebody to extend a mortgage somebody knowing that they don't have an ability to pay, and of course that was going on during the subprime tobacco but he wrote an opinion that really became off. So part of the legal structure and framework. And, again, you know it was wife Focus was it was it was the the law and the roles lot and in people's lives he was also I have to say somebody who worked really hard to always reach out to stakeholders. There were many and some I suppose who disagreed with him disagreed with the direction that he was going in the progressive pushing the courts, his willingness to take on the reality of racial disparities, his willingness to take on the fact that we have A. Only serve the needs of those who need it most. But he weathered that weathered that critique and criticism and I just think it's shows so much about his. His his person for anyone who critiqued him You could not say that there was. On the court or worked harder for the administration of Justice Than Chief Justice scancen. You know he he it a huge void And we will. We will really really miss him. You know a more Healy I had we've had the luxury. Of having some history-making chief justices from Marshall Ireland now Ralph Cans and I'm so glad you mentioned the eviction thing because I think the average person thinks the chief justice is obviously the head of the state's highest court and besides who writes the opinions he's sort of in charge that. As you know and you the eviction thing is a perfect example. Racial disparity in study is another wonderful example something near and dear to my heart access to justice for meaning legal representation for poor people and all matters civil matters which does not exist on like on the criminal side. These are things that chief justice doesn't have to do. It's not part of his or her narrow jurisdiction. It's a thing that some chief justices like Ganz decide to do because they see their role a much broader way than just deciding cases and gas went ahead of the class on those things, right? Oh head of the class here and nationally I mean you know I think he has role as chief justice says, yes. The lead administrator of the court system he also. Embraced that role as somebody who could be a voice of the court justice and He did things that had never been done here before in the state and led to his recognition nationally about being the voice for access to justice looking at you know issues like. Lake racial disparities in the court system and then working from administrative angles. A rule in policy-making angle from a convenient angle, not in the headlines but you know just within the operation of the court trying to change things in in meaningful tape and he made tremendous headway on that I think we have an obligation to follow through on the vision that she just a scant was setting out an already was developing. That is my hope as devastating as this is to the judiciary to legal community frankly to the residents of the Commonwealth who really lose a voice of Justice and a man of such of which good. Obligation to go forward and make good on those things. So you know I, I think it's really important to To point that out jam I'm glad we get a chance to talk about it because you know. That's not a single opinion that gets a lot of praise or acclaim do something deep insignificant that affects. Hundreds of thousands of lives here in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts and. And just an example of who he was you know trade journal more healy lasting from me. This was messed out what a piece in the globe back in. July talking about Justice Barbara Links said to retire on August seventeen. She was the first openly gay member of the court but he talked about the fact that governor Baker four, his last five nominees were one time prosecutors and and obviously prosecutors come from a certain perspective because they've been prosecutors I'm wondering how important you think it is to tap. Not. Just thinking about you know racial diversity, ethnic diversity diversity of experience more Laura's perhaps from legal services or the defense bar or people that have been from looking at the law from a different Lens. I think I think diversity of of a representations really important diversity of experiences important I. Think about a lot of cases are in fact, not criminal cases their civil cases major. Civil litigations that experiences very important in my view from the highest court. So that'll be up for the governor and the GNC to the side but I just know that the loss of chief justice rough cancers is it significant one and leaves a huge huge void and you know for those out there listening to remember it was Ralph. Gas has a Superior Court judge who decided who owned the baseball from the Red Sox world series victory over the cargo you might remember a certain former player pocketed the ball the red. SOX wanted to get that back and only appropriate that. Then against the red. SOx. Fan that he that he was actually had that case studied it and worked out a resolution that resulted in that world championships series baseball the last out a game six returning to red sox nation. So not to not to point out something to light, but I just think you. Should know that as well. We should probably should recuse themselves in that case in fairness there Thank you really appreciate your time and talk to us today. Thanks. Thank you very much. Okay fi well, you to that was Attorney General Maura Healey, and we thank you again for taking the time to open the lines now and ask you about. Justice Gas. Similar to what I just asked the attorney general do you want governor to appoint a Supreme Court justice who shares the same legal ideals just cancer? Are you concerned that? Governor, Baker. Will have appointed all seven justices on the supreme. Judicial? and. What about diversity on the court racial ethnic political experiential our number eight, seven, seven, three, zero, one, eighty, nine, seventy, eight, seven, seven, three, one, eighty, nine, seventy, and even though her name has changed emails. Now it's still be PR at W.. G. B. H. Dot Org. Welcome back to Boston public radio, Jim Brady and Marjorie. The first part of this I, our road show remembering the legacy of visiting legacy of Ralph Ganz Chief Justice of the state's highest court. Who died yesterday we spoke to the Attorney General, a couple of minutes ago at the bottom of the hour, we'll speak to the guy who actually appointed him to the court and then to the chief justice seat that would be former governor develop Patrick, but we're going to spend the next few minutes. Is Martin suggest that talking about what's before Charlie Baker? At Eight, seven, seven, three, zero, one, thousand, nine, hundred, seventy I don't know of any just if any governor is done this before but once. The governor has replace justice link and then Chief Justice Ganz. He will have appointed all seven members of the state's highest court either because of death in this case or the seventy year old mandatory retirement, there's a piece in the globe a couple of months ago Marguerite by former Herald reporter, I know we're always suppose say that. Out Great Mets Great. Here's a great reporter in a four of the five point in spy. This governor have been former prosecutors. It gets to the issue about whether or not. We need more balanced there I believe currently on the yesterday see the only person of color is justice bud I didn't know until this morning while I should have known only three African Americans ever on the state's highest court with the oldest highest court in the country but around three hundred plus years only ten women no Latinos ever. So it seems to me there's a huge burden. On this governor to diversify notches than terms of race or gender but in terms as you say experience in those sort of things. We want to know if this manners the people, this is just outside the the orbit of normal thought for most of us, you know it's sort of like I was thinking about remember the great campaign. The ACLU started what a difference a DA makes were most people had no idea governments da's were elected what their real function was at turned out from polls. I'm not sure that most of us think enough about. Some really important people in our lives, the people in the Supreme Court of the United States people on the highest courts and our state. But hopefully because of the really sad and untimely. Death of Ralph Gaunt's there will be some attention and a lot of focus on Charlie Baker doing the right thing here. But remember how big a deal it was back in two thousand sixteen when the Massachusetts Spiritual Court ruled that black men have reason to flee from the cops. Mentioned the case yesterday Tajani Cobb your did not necessarily mean that they were. You know that they were in the midst of committing some crime. All it meant does it legitimate reason to fear police officers because of a long history of of bias against a black men and black women as well and then there was that two thousand, nine, hundred decision that jurors can't be disqualified if they announced the criminal justice system is racist that was another great one what shows I think? Of. Diversity. On the judge on the on the court. But I do think that the idea of people having worked in civil rights having worked in criminal defense legal services were used to be Jim Racial Justice issues I think that's really important. It's hugely important, and by the way, it doesn't mean that a former prosecutor at all can't be fair. It just means the the there should be a balance of experience before you came to the court because obviously based on who you represented, you're going to bring different things to your decision making something it's huge and also you know at a time like this, which that we're there is so much focus. On racial disparities and talk about ironies the the Final Act of justice. Kansas was the report that he commissioned coming out of Harvard law school that we talked about yesterday with the reverence I think racial diversity of which there is very little on this court matters lot to. So diversity of thought diversity of experience, racial diversity gender diversity on the all matter. Do you have an opinion on this? Give us about his eight, seven, seven, three, zero one. Eight, nine seventy and as I said the more hilly. The poor people have a right to a lawyer. If their liberties at stake in a criminal proceeding, they don't have a right to a lawyer if they're about to lose their apartment and as a former tenant lawyer in the South Bronx I can tell you most poor people who were about to lose. Their house would prefer to go to jail than lose the place where they live a and they're not entitled to representation there just aren't enough legal services, lawyers and Eagles. This is another fight that gas was involved in that didn't reach for wishing, but he moved the ball forward quite a bit. You know something else. I learned just reading about him today it is. A backlash against Muslims was intense blues intensive. Deal. Between two, thousand, twelve and two, thousand, nineteen three times went to speak at the big Boston mosque three times. He went to talk about Islam and and and bias against Muslims and that kind of thing which I thought. was really impressive and you know it's best out in that piece you mentioned. talked. About how Barbara Link was retiring I tend to retire August seventeenth, and of course, the first openly gay woman to be appointed to the court. I. Forget what year it was. It was not that long when I was up at the governor's council governors cow, I'm so glad you remember. When I was still with the Boston Herald th the questioning her nomination and you always get these at these things. You always get a stream of these father's rights groups from they're talking about divorce. That's that's the always show up at the end of these things. But. It was incredible. Some a couple of these governors counselors one of the homes last was was manning I forget it first name she was a woman they're going after basically there was another guy from my hometown who was going after link about her sex life because she's a lesbian and she had her daughter's sitting there in the auditorium. He's thought yourself what is going on up here who these governors counselors and is kind of awful thing because we just voted a lot of us coupla days ago here in the primary and Massachusetts. I don't think governors, governors, counselors maybe I did on the ballot this year. But of course to do most of us, don't know why I was trying to think if I had somebody maybe case. Most of us don't know who these governors counters are and I've hoped they've improved quality wise since that disgrace and debacle and the middle of the of the hearing by the way one of them. Counters left the hearing to go out and appear on how he cars radio show on W. R., K. because he was not in favor of of anybody getting on the court. When you say you hopefully proved in quality I don't think that's the relevant question. The relevant question is should eight people who've virtually no one could identify Allina good point be making the decision about who are the judges the late Brian Joyce state Senator Brian Joyce Milton is you know proposed constitutional amendment you and I supported to eliminate the governor's council never got the ballot and I don't know what he wanted to replace with. But when people have asked us just like the United States Senate and most people do know who their senator is that they can apply pressure confirms. Judges to the Federal Court including the Supreme Court Why can't the state Senate were most of US know our state senators in it's also out in the light of day. Why can't they be the body round these aid obscure Governor's councillors, and for people have problem that listening on the right now on the radio I challenge you to tell me who governor's councillor is. By the way they have districts that are bigger than our members of Congress. I think they're only eight of them. I. Hope I got that number right but they will ultimately decide if they confirm the nominee from Governor Baker? We haven't had governor Baker on the show in while obviously he's been pretty busy with The coronavirus I hope he joins us in. September they made that commitment to us that they would I mean obviously, we talked about this is a huge. Again, he will have appointed every single member of the state's highest and most important court once he has picked successors against unlike enough I didn't realize until today is shows my own ignorance about the Supreme Court of Massachusetts that rough cancer, the first Jewish chief justice I did not know that either and you had on your television show. And he? was talking about the the great blessing what he did on the Massachusetts Supreme Court last week he likes his job. Yeah. This January of twenty, nine, thousand, nine I was going to play a little later. But since you brought it up, here is the end of an interview I did again, January of last year with chief justice cans does this fun. Weird word but is it fun? It's a is is a great blessing. Why? Because we get I get to wake up each morning and tempt to do what I think is just. So few of us have the opportunity to be able to interpret the Constitution and preserve it. As we think it should be preserved and to be able to accomplish justice that is a great blessing which has been given to me in my other six. I'm sorry go more say you can actually go see the I don't know if you can drink covid, but you always should be able to go see the Massachusetts Supreme Court in Action. That's really impressive. They're there they sit behind this this big bench and and they're all really smart and it's very decorous and a beautiful spot you see that and you're thinking, wow, this is really great. You know you get discussed it with your government you think things. Don't work here. They don't see that gives you some hope about. The government of the United States. Then you go to the governor's council. It's like a free for all and you think Oh my God, how did these people get there? What are they doing there? How do they get to choose? They're not all I shouldn't make a broad brush. There's some good governors counselors but. With older respect and we got to take a break. The shoe to me is not the quality of the one high-quality. Nobody knows who they are and they have a lot of power but that's the topic another day, the governor, a former governor Patrick's going to join us in a second so we should take a break. Coming up, we are going to talk to. Patrick about the passing of the Chief Justice of the Massachusetts obtained court. Welcome back to Boston Public Radio Jim Brady and Marjorie Regan, Governor Deval Patrick appointed justice gaunt's to the Supreme Court. Elevated him several years later to chief justice in two thousand fourteen governor Patrick joins US online talk about what he saw injustice gaunt's as both a person and illegal mind governor Patrick we really appreciate your time. Thanks for calling in. I wish the occasion. Different Jin how are you an Marjorie? We're good. Thank you. We we should point out to. Ralph gas is relatively young men sixty five years old, which makes his passing even more tragic. But let's elaborate governor Patrick and what Jim just said You not only appointed him to the supreme judicial. Court but you made and the chief justice. So what was it that you saw in Justice Gas that made you appoint him elevate him. Well you know you. You will know and many of your listeners will know we we have a wealth of legal talents in Massachusetts we have. You know incredibly, well, prepared and smart. And Effective Legal Scholars. So, the benches quite deep sharp minds are they're planning. what I thought in in Ralph. Gant. On it in addition to all that was he was a humanist and in some ways he humanist I t. so the people behind the docket numbers and legal issues, you know the parties and their motivations, the lower courts and their need for guidance for the next case because that's the job of the SAC is you know not to review every case, but to review the ones where there is some matter of precedent that needs to be resolved and he he saw the lawyers near need to understand how to advise clients. So I think it made him a wise. Justice and and really important in setting the tone I think for our High Court. You know. Governor Patrick Margin I both have the exact same observation on one of the tweets. US sent out. Last night about chief justice gaunt's you wrote he was a learned rigorous serious insincere jurors who faithfully honored constitutional principles and also saw the people behind the docket number. Here's the part that got both for attention. He was also wicked funny taking his work but never himself too seriously neither of US could have imagined the word wicked as an adjective coming out of your mouth. So he had to be really wicked. Funny. What prompted you to say that governor? Patrick well, you know it's interesting. I was listening to Marjorie comment just before the engineer. You know connected us and talking about the the you know the August. Chamber with the courtroom where the where the FTC presides. And and what that conveys in terms of its gravity and. Seriousness and that's all important. I understand that as a as a lawyer I understand it as A. As a you know kinda arm amateur architect. But the beauty of of justice of Chief Justice Gant said. He saw. The humor in a lot of stuff in a lot of those people's motivations behind those cases it was a way of his humility coming through and he was really funny not not mean funny. You know that's a different kind of funny but he was witty and quick was well read the he'd like to read things that were funny. He could quote back jokes and stories, and so forth that he had read about or or that he had heard her experience and and that you know also just brought him I think right back down to earth with the rest of US wonder around. How do you think it was in as as sad as the timing is that this racial disparity study out of Harvard law school have mattered so much came out literally days before. He died. This work matter to him. And therefore, it mattered to me in when I had the opportunity to consider his appointment. You know this again is about how important it is for us. To, see people and when I say that and and more to the point I think when when just as games. Live that he saw all the people, not just the not just the mighty but the meek as well. Not just the folks who are already on the inside and powerful, but the folks who were on the outside and needed the powerful. To help them help themselves. And I think that commissioning that report was. Was Writing Character for him and I would if I may humbly say that it would be a fitting. Tribute to his to his work and his life and memory if his colleagues on the S J.. See. Soft route to. Implement recommendations that are that that come from that report. So. Governor Deval. Patrick. What did you think defines against legacy that the the cases, the decisions, the writing. How would you? Characterize it. One of the best you know we we again, we're so so fortunate we don't have is some states do systems where the judges are elected. So they have to get into the politics of running for office and raising money and all that. So many states do but we don't. and we have a long tradition of serious jurists who take that work very seriously by the way most of them, we talked about elegant the. ESE courtroom is Yup most courtrooms aren't snow. The support that most judges get is is not very deep or very great. Their power is considerable but their ability. To, exercise that that power I would say is sometimes compromised, but just the bulk. Of the work and the limitation on the resources that they that they have. and. Even so consistently, we have had really fine a series of really fine chief justices and associate justices of our of our sac many of them have come up through. this system. So I think of of. Justice Ganz. As a as a justice of uncommon wisdom. And humanity coupled with a first rate mind and I think when you get those two things in combination, it's really an unbeatable unbeatable blend you know before you go governor Patrick. I think you picked Craig for on you pick five your dominated five justices to the S J C Correct I, think that's right. Yeah. Okay and history-making in many cases. Right, now understand that the first black chief justice Ireland the first black. Woman Justice Hines the first Asian American Duff Ly- The first openly gay. Lanc your successor is going to end up picking seven out of seven, and there has been a lot of disgust even before justice dances passing about the importance of diversity racial diversity, gender, diversity, diversity of experience I read a quote from the woman who was the chair of the judicial nominating commission under you while you were governor that Sorta surprised me and she said that it was very difficult. This is virtually a quote. Very difficult to find a deep pool of racially diverse candidates and when you pair that with what you said I, the Marjorie about how rich a a field we have of incredibly qualified lawyers. Is that still the case in your judgment? In. Twenty twenty as it may have been when. Lisa goodhart set which she said. Well can clear. We have a deep bench of legal talent. In the in the Commonwealth we have a list deep bench of judicial candidates and I wanna be I wanNA take a minute to explain what I mean sure you have to not. You have to put yourself up to become a judge you have to apply. we encouraged people to apply, but you have to apply, and then there's a vetting that happens both independent of the governors well I with the governor's office and then independent. Of the governor's office, and then of course, after the appointment, the the person has to be confirmed by the by the Governor's Council and making that decision to leave a practice partnership. For example, in a law firm or or a company's in house legal department or a tenured professorship for example, That's no small decision for lot of people but specially I. Think for people. Whose whose opportunity be professional is is the first generation whose opportunity to make a little money is the first they've ever had and Sorta like running for governor? Well I mean look is just it is real. It is real. What it is we do that practically speaking. To enable people to step away from their lives and come and serve. The public and we're fortunate as I say that so many people people do but that was certainly a practical consideration for a lot of young. Black and Brown. Governor Deval Patrick one more question for me how does this work? Now what you I mean you? You did this as the governor, you appointed people to the bench. You chose the the the this chief justice. Do you get lobbied heavily or do you? Do you have a committee or explain what Governor Baker going to be doing? So I presume he is following. The same norms that that I did my predecessors just do, but there is something there's a, there's a group. That that vets, candidates, and I own a governor appoints that group. This is what least a good heart cheered. Yeah. So Abeille for so for for so long because. Nominating Council and and candidates. For a particular appointments wherever they are whatever level come in to them, and they get sorted with the help of some staff work from the chief counsel in the governor's office figured sported they vetted by that group and that group decide independent of the governor in our case whom to interview not. If I am particularly interested in, I tried to be in ensuring that there was a diverse pool for every appointment whether it was the sac or the housing quarter everything everything else that certainly got conveyed and I think in her colleagues really really good and trying to assure that that was So but then they make a judgement based on the needs in the court and the inequality of the of the candidates and their readiness about whom to to send forward, and then the chief counsel. There's a further venting of that small sleet might be one people or two people depending on the. On the on the position and for the yesterday see it's a little more truncated. It's a little tighter. but in all of those cases whatever the recommendation The Massachusetts bar also gets a chance independently to look at the finalists or the near finalist and raped them. and then the governor doesn't appointment and and that goes forward to the Governor's Council for confirmation hearings. In the tradition of Ralph can ever went to the governor's Council Guard Dot Com. That's all right. Let's okay governor we really really appreciate your your time. I can't resist you all governor by the way you do. Your Poor Lieutenant Governor Murray in there having his Gavel things to order on more than one occasion. It was it was fisticuffs tell you. Know I've been in there. Listen they were. They were really overwhelmingly furious folks who did their homework and you know he had acting out every once in a while. On the whole. On but look, it's life and then has right. That's right. Right but on the whole week God, will we ask for because we did the homework, we had the case to make and we were respectful of them in there in their role and they repaid that I think by By I think an all but one case affirming. Our nominees. Governor. Time. Thanks so much. Greater you to Governor Deval Patrick he is the former governor of course, come up. Massachusetts is also the founder and chairman of Together Fund, and we thank him again for being with US coming up. Let me just say before you go ahead. When they go hi, Marjorie goes. Let's. Leave many traumatized. Up there with the Governor's council I, think Tim Murray was traumatized to he was the devout Patrick's attendant governor anyway coming up. Tom Brady minus bill ballot check sports, Authority Eric joins us to talk about the perverse joy at least some people are feeling and Tom Brady's inaugural flop with the buccaneers trying because New York is next eighty, nine, seven W. H.. oops W loops Gbh. Boston Graham. Welcome back to Boston Public Radio Jim Brown and Martin Regan we got a brief break from Marjorie trashing the governor's council. Joining us is. Anchor and reporter for NBC Sports Boston NBC contributor that trying because there are joining our. Guys. Are you? Great to talk to you before the the show Jim was saying that a lot of the coverage about Tom Brady and the is dead with the Buchan. Tom Brady, of course, forty three years. Old kind of made it sound itself. He practically needed a wheelchair to be. Pushed out, that's what the Washington Post says essential the field. And as I introduced you as saying, there was a little bit of. Of Happiness that auditory? Yes, exactly. Exactly. But it was one of the first game. So we crazy here. Yes. I mean never needs to like slow their role a little bit. I mean, if you remember a few years ago I think it was two thousand fourteen when they drafted Jimmy, Garoppolo and Brady and the Patriots aren't too and to famously by former colleague now at the NFL network, my Giardi ask Bill Belichick. If he was thinking about switching quarterbacks and looked at Mike and then we got the famous words, Mike Rana Cincinnati I know Cincinnati right. But this is different. Brady is six years older brady isn't thirty seven anymore. Brady is forty three and we've noticed a decline in people can say whatever they want, and there are some who still are convinced that it has nothing to do with brees decline in physical ability in simply about the weapons around him but I don't think we're GONNA see the same Tom Brady ever again I mean he's forty three years old like sometimes you just have to come to terms with your. Age I think that article. Jimmy. referencing in the Washington Post. It was less about saying that Brady needs a wheelchair and more saying what I think. A lot of us have been saying when he was here in New England Hey, don't leave this guy on an island don't build your entire offense around Tom Brady and put it on his shoulders. Make it a versatile offense similar to what they have in new. Orleans. With drew brees who's forty one years old the battle geriatrics on Sunday. And give him an opportunity. You have a salad running game something that can take the pressure off of Tom Brady so that every time you need a score every time you need something done, it's not solely on him I think that's the point that everybody's trying to make is that at some point teams need to come to terms with the fact that even though he might probably is the best ever to play the position he's still a human being whose forty three years old. Meanwhile, we've got a new page and we got a new quarterback Cam Newton Patriots, and I'll say one thing is totally infatuation. One well, I I don't know anything about this guy. I just know I'm really now he's got this great smile. It looks he's really happy. He names his kids all these wild names. And he's and he's Way Any I saw him run to quarterback touchdowns or what do you call it? A quarterback sneaks. no-one. Regular rushing. Okay. Regular rushing whatever he looked pretty good to me and I liked his glee and his excitement and enthusiasm he's fine. Yeah. I mean here's a guy again to always. But this is what we're going to do all season long right is compare last year this year and Brady to Newton. But you know the they're knock on Brady last year was that he didn't seem like you is having fun anymore he wasn't engaged with his teammates he was kind of a Sad Sally after every single game win or lose Cam Newton's the exact opposite. But also just looking at what Cam can do on the field. He is better suited for the lack of options. The Patriots have offensively they are not an offensive juggernaut. They do not have superstar receivers running backs on their team, but because Cam Newton dynamic athlete in dynamic quarterback, he's able to better I think mask some of those. Deficiencies than Tom Brady was just because he's not only you know a doesn't anatomy has a strong arm, but he is a very elusive strong powerful runner and we saw that on Sunday, are they going to run the ball? Is he going to run fifteen times every game likely not as he gets more comfortable in the offense and comfortable with his receivers I'd imagine that the run pass ratio would be more equal. But he is probably better fitted to help this team succeed offensively in ways that Tom Brady wasn't any talked about his joy marjorie. The best moments of the game came after he scored his second touchdown, which if you went back and looked, they would've had right better camera angles I think they probably would have ruled them down like inches from the one but whatever it doesn't matter they counted it. It's he scored and instead of him celebrating a guy who has people were like Oh seeking to be unselfish he jerk not at all. He hands the ball to David Andrews smell of last season with blood clots. So you take it in spike it it wasn't planned. It wasn't thought about a David Andrews surprised by really touched in bladder and I think he is really trying to show people. I'm not who you thought I was I'm actually it's not all about me and my celebrations it's about team and winning I thought it was till the game by way it's too early to just too early to judge Brady and Tampa too early to judge the Patriots based on. Can we say Dolphin? Can We? So. No I don't WanNa talk about Cam Newton. Marjorie. Want to go to some fashion. Compared. I don't want to talk about do I'm hoping I can talk about them a lot know anything about football, but anyway. I WanNa talk about the NFL's fans reaction in a sense the ratings down, and some of the fans were booing about the racial justice. Opening, night on Thursday. Yes. But Jewish down to. Is this going to do with the race stuff or what I mean I don't think we know that yet Marjorie. I think it's too early to tell. It might just also be if we're being totally honest it might be the fact that a lot of us know we have four living on borrowed time be outside the around people and it was a beautiful weekend tonight. If you don't live on the West Coast and looking back there have been other seasons where early NFL. Ratings maybe didn't stack up to what they were in previous years. But as the winter roles on those ratings, get better like I'm not although I will say this and I love my parents but I specially my father I vehemently disagree with him politically and oftentimes even morally on certain things and when I asked him if you watch the packers game on Sunday. I was shocked to hear him say no, and he said they stayed in the locker room for the national anthem and I said so. I mean, honestly. So I think I you didn't my dad and serve in the military like he's just put quite frankly just being a jerk. CLOSE-MINDED JERK doesn't care about it. He now is wrapped up in this trumpism, which is anyone who isn't with us as against us and it's to me it's a little reprehensible. My Head Dad had served. You really felt a rope tied of the flag. I would probably cut him a little slack, but it just was like A. Full they're also even if he had served, they're not insulting the flag essentially. This unity thing between the Houston team in the Kansas City team in the two quarterbacks Watson and. Mahomes had this armlock in thing. A bunch of fans were going there but let me just say the three of. Trash spent part of last year trashing the players in the NFL in the show for not having the social conscience of people like capture nick many many many the vast majority of players did not have the courage to follow his lead even though they said, they believed in his cause. So there's what happened that beautiful Sir thing out in. The opening night game between Houston and Kansas City, and then there's this beautiful video which I. Hope People have seen. Here's just a little piece. It's two minute long poem recited by players on the dolphins they publish video and social media in of their decision, not to come out of the locker room during the playing of each of the either of the two national anthems here just a piece of that. When education is not determined by where we reside. And we have the means the purchase with doctor prescribed and you fight for prison reform, an innocent lives, and you repair the communities that were tossed to the side and your Mitt you gain from it and you swallow your part and when greed is not the compass but love is the guy and when of course, don't skin color but punish the crime. Until. Then we'll just skip the long production and stay inside I love this thing and by the way is black and white players doing this thing they decided totally respectfully despite people like your father, we had a caller yesterday who she said whose husband would not watch any of the Games for the exact same reason your father. said to you but. These. Are. Finally, you know standing up again after I think fairly cowardly re. Refusal. Even. Though they said they agreed with them to follow camper lead. So I think the NFL players are really doing themselves proud treaning i. think they are too and I think Jim the one thing that they're doing that they had been fearful of passages I think is why a lot of them did not show did Neil or put a fist in the air or stay in the locker room they're standing up to the owners I mean this was a call to arms to the League into the owners to Roger Goodell to say do not heap trotting out symbolic gestures I. Don't we don't need to one of the most to me one of the most powerful point portions of that poem. was when one of the one of the players says should I my father served in the military should I stand for one anthem and Neil for the one for my brother who died at the hands of the police and it's like you're asking many of these people to choose they should have to. We've discussed before my brother who did serve in the military said is in the military so that you can choose what you wanted to do. It's not a disrespect to me and I understand that not every person who serves military feels that way and I am much more likely to side with someone who served. and Let. Their feelings and someone who didn't. In taking that stance but I just I loved how the players here said to the owners at I'm looking at you Bob Kraft. Mr Kraft's everyone likes to call you you. I. Know You do Wonderful Philanthropic things that you talk out of both sides of your mouth because on the one hand you're bringing in and ninety five masks in trying to help people in this community in all communities and help one another. But the other you're also donating a million dollars or something trump. Campaign and hobnobbing at Mar-a-lago with some of these policies and rhetoric is holding down entire communities of people at NFL players black and white are fed up with it. They are hired of the paid patriotism which I've met a million times. Howard Bryant's full dissident book talks in detail about how it's all just symbolic garbage. It is not true supporting our troops. It is not really anything that has to do with the military or patriotism. It comes down to money in these guys are tired of it. We'll speaking to money for a good cause I. Mean it's a perfect contrast. You talked about what you believe craft is not doing move over to the Celtics, Ns cancer with me the other night sale selleck center. On Greater Boston who was explaining his op Ed and the globe talking about how he's not GonNa shut up in dribble like people Lauraingraham suggests and he is just he's he's fabulous but it's not just the players in the NBA who for a while have been leaders on this issue tell us we only have a minute and a half house what the? Celtics ownership is doing with the players, which is really putting their money where their mouth is yet little money where their mouth is twenty, five, million over ten years to Paglia cut and with Groesbeck who Carson to co of the Boston. Celtics, along with a player coalition. In members of their executive staff and team put together a point-by-point presentation and made decisions on how not just giving the money like the NFL said, we're GONNA give this money to social justice causes but we haven't heard anything about it. They outline what? What charities and and and which causes they're going to give to specifically education housing voting rights things at the players want to see change they're dedicating that money to it over the next ten years and I have to imagine that in time that that that dollar amount will continue to grow and they should it should be noted they are the first team in any league to do that hats off. Bravo. To those owners into the Boston Celtics in. Good luck to them tonight in Game One of the Eastern Conference finals against against the Miami Heat prayed at five thirty on sports lost. In their very very. Just want to touch on the thing you mentioned there's going to be collaborative effort I mean, as you said, with wires coalition, individual Celtics are going to be on each of these committees decide these thing. So it's IT'S A. Think terrific. And it's exactly what these guys wanted. It's why when they said, we're not GONNA play. To us this is not just about putting you know slogans and end zones or black lives matter court. That's great. That does conversation but it's not enough. True systemic change how are we going to do you do it to money and influence? That's how everything gets done in this country? Hey, trendy. Thank you so much go. Tonight for you and six, thirty, six, thirty for the game. I think. Exactly marched. March. Thank. You actually saw this week I I saw both games. It was really fun trick is Derek thank you. Again trying to narrow joins US every week. She's an anchor and reporter for NBC Sports Boston and be PR contributor coming up wildfires continued to turn through America's West so much so that smoke now can be seen on the other side of the country are science correspondent have a gallstone joins us to talk about the undeniably that this is the result of climate change keep your job and eighty nine seven G. B., H. Boston Public Radio On Boston, public radio new record was broken, Sundays the bike share company blogs logged a record fourteen thousand rise in one day combined with a surgeon bicycle ownership since the pandemic began, it's clear more people are choosing the bike as a socially distant way to commute with the NBA considering cutting service ahead of a budget. It may be the only reliable way to get around. Boston. Few minutes will consider this all things transportation with Jim L. E., C. and Chris them sick for weeks. President trump is claiming the suburbs will go up in flames Joe Biden is elected but with wildfires raging across the West Biden hit back saying number four years of trump's laster climate change policies will be what destroys suburban America. We'll discuss how climate change becoming a political priority in the twenty twenty election with Shannon's John King that moorhead on Boston public radio eighty, nine, seven Gbh. Marcher, Ye can this is the second hour of Boston public radio eighty nine seven Cheapie H. Logan Jim. Hi, I want to tell you this is I'm going to give you like a trigger warning because some of the sound is going to totally put you over the edge so. Be Prepared. To help out twenty, three hours I twenty, four every day. So it's different. So while the American West was being often flames president trump landed in California know this yesterday to meet with government officials instead of citing climate change the root causes of the increasing frequency and intensity of these incredible fires. He blamed California's essentially for inadequately raking leaves and for poorly managing the forests even though many of them, in fact, the majority of them are federally managed. Trees Fall down. After. A short period of time about eighteen months, it become very dry. They become really like a matchstick they become very very They just explode they could explode also leaves when you have years of leaves dried leaves on the ground it just sets it up. It's really a fuel for a fire. So they have to do something about it. Okay. So far marjory. I'm Jim okay. So here's what happened when a courageous California official I wish people in the corona virus tests for us with do this pushback on trump's wildfire analysis we're seeing the warming trend, make our summers warmer, but also our winters warmer as well. If we ignore that science and sort of put our head in the sand and think it's all about vegetation management, we're not going desk succeed together protecting Californians. It'll. Start Getting Cooler. You just watch. I wish science degree. How? Actually. Jog. Joining us a line is someone who does know science heather Goldstone heathers an expert notion science chief communications officer at the Woodward Climate Research Center in woods all she'll tell us about that in a minute and Gbh contributor talk thanks calling in. Yeah good to be back with you guys. So I just WANNA be clear. You are scientists heather Goldstone There is a good portion of this problem that is related to the the increase and droughts the higher temperatures. Warmer winters CETERA You could keep president could get out there with a rake but that's not going to solve the problem for everything I've read. Yeah I mean obviously when you're talking about something like these fires, there are a lot of different factors at play, but there is a very clear link to climate change You know we've seen to record heat waves out on the west. coast. This summer we've seen years of. Drought conditions and that definitely has an effect. I mean what we're looking at this year is just really stunning. I think the most recent data I've seen from a a couple of days ago in terms of area burned just in California was three point two million acres twice. The previous record set a couple of years ago and then also to see these fires in Oregon and Washington. And Yeah it really is as simple as warmer drier climate conditions lead to drier soils and trees, and that means that it's not necessarily that we're seeing in a lot of cases more fire starting but once you get an ignition right that can just you can just go the the fuel is there for these fires to to really become Very. Large and then we've seen some unusual weather conditions as well in August that that led to these these lightning strikes. So I said a lot of factors there but the link to climate change is really quite clear and I'm pretty simple. We will ignore the gender reveal party which caused part of the problem is as As well trumpet on More Than One occasion his threatened to withhold federal funding to heavily hit well, states like California unless they got with the program, a Reagan, the leaves, or whatever those have mostly been idle threats have their correct. I mean there hasn't been any follow through in terms of the funding or reduce funding on the part of the Fed's run. You know I'm I'm not the one to comment on on the California wildfire management policy and what the funding has been to California but I think it's just What we really need is leadership that respects and understands the science because there are very clear actions that we could and should be taking to mitigate these kinds of risks and and that means primarily we need to be reducing greenhouse gas emissions immediately, and dramatically in order to stop this constant worsening of climate impacts that we're seeing all around us whether that is the wildfires out west or you know hurricane activity in the Atlantic. Again, we've seen heatwaves this summer we've seen temperatures in Siberia over one hundred degrees Fahrenheit record temperatures set in in Siberia earlier this summer, right. So we're we're seeing the impacts of climate change all around us and to be ignoring that is is really not wise. Will you know we're seeing it here is well I. I was heartbroken this summer to read all these stories in the globe about these ponds Oliver Cape Cod that that had been. Leftover I guess from glaciers or something and people have bought their homes, they're on these ponds, and now some of them quite a few of them are too polluted to swim in they'll kill their dogs. It's Dawes get in the water people can't swim for very long. Then you have the conservation law foundation suing the town of barnstable for polluting the ocean I mean we're seeing catastrophic climate change problems right now now on Cape Cod. Yeah absolutely. I mean we're seeing them everywhere and again, this is one of those situations where you know just like with the wildfires just like with hurricanes it's not like climate change causes these. It's not like we've never had them before but climate change takes existing problems including things like nutrient pollution and makes them worse exacerbates the problem. So in the case of the nutrient pollution and these Algal Blooms What happens is that the excess nitrogen might come from septic systems lawn run off in other parts of the country in the world you see that from agriculture as well and you get these Algal blooms. But when the water is warmer that algae grows fast on the same amount of nutrients. So then the problem is just that much worse than and we see this you know in those ponds, but we're also seeing not necessarily toxic algae but also algal blooms being more of an issue in response to nutrient pollution in places like buzzards Bay some of our scientists would well climate working with. A buzzards Bay coalition who's been collecting data over three decades in buzzards Bay looking at both nutrient levels and temperature has have very clearly seen this increase in the amount of Algal growth that you see for the same level of nutrients as the temperature goes up and we've seen it in are salt marshes along the coast where in fact, this interaction between nitrogen pollution and climate change can be really insidious that the the nitrogen pollution. Access nitrogen I you know this Case Kinda like carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, right? Where certain level of nitrogen is needed for plant growth. But when you get too much, it changes the way the plants grow in these marshes and you actually start to see the marsh crumble, and then the marsh can't actually grow to keep up with the sea level rise being caused by climate change, and they also don't absorb as much carbon. Out of the atmosphere so they stopped being as much of a buffer against climate change. So you get these interactions between the the nutrient pollution and climate change in a lot of different systems and it's it can be a little complex but I think is just an example of how pervasive the impacts of climate change are. It's not something that we can set aside and say, Oh, that's. Just, you know this this problem over here that we can deal with separately from everything else climate change is the background on which whether is happening and is affecting ecosystems at all levels and is really integrated into all these other problems complete the picture. We should also mention the exact same time Donald Trump is in California, what is the two glaciers and Antarctic or breaking off and they talk. About Sea level rise, which could be immense resolve that apparently the president has said that we if we were rigging the glaciers, this wouldn't have happened. So you mentioned one thing that's really important I. Think on Cape Cod and I'm biased because I spend my summers there I think a lot of people do not realize fertilizer too close to the water whether it's the ocean at the lakes is A. Huge problem. It's not just the septic and when you get these torrential rains and the water gets saturated all that run off of the fertilizer goes right into the ocean. I don't know why the conservation people aren't more diligent about enforcing the fertilizer regulations but they're not. They're definitely have been You know not necessarily from a regulatory perspective but community groups You'll see the occasional brown beautiful campaign around and I, think we're seeing more and more brown lawns on Cape. That's just my anecdotal experience looking around. Not Not a scientific study of of behavior around here but I do think that awareness of that issue is is increasing I. Hope. So Heather. You mentioned the hurricanes for me, the Atlantic I read something about their five cyclones forming the Atlantic for only the second time. Ever what I've also been reading a lot about is one of the reasons for the ferocity. Of the impact of some of these storms is I don't know if the technical term is meandering or stolen or whatever the hell it is, but essentially, they're moving far slower and I don't need to be a scientist understand what the impact of a very slow moving. Hurricane. Huge storms depositing water wind or whatever on something is the slowing down of these things also a function of climate change. That is emerging area of research, but it seems to be as you said, we're seeing storms. This is a pattern that we've seen increasingly over. The past several years of seeing these storms, really large storms which because of climate change are already carrying more water. Right there's more moisture in the atmosphere. The water is warmer to fuel these storms and you end up with these very. Water Laden storms large storms that then move very slowly, and that means that they can, as you said, sit in one place and just dump huge amounts of water in a single place. Very. Because they are slow moving, which you know may in some cases seem counter intuitive but it definitely seems to be a trend that we're seeing and it's a trend that we're seeing for different reasons in other weather systems So we're also seeing that things like heat waves this feeds back into those wildfires out west Heat storm systems in general especially ones that are driven by the jet stream in this is a separate issue from those hurricanes but that storms and weather systems are typically driven and moved along by the jetstream that the jetstream appears to be getting a little bit more meandering a little bit slower and so those weather systems whatever they are can just sit in place and that means that if you've got a wave instead of it lasting a few days, it might last a few weeks. If you've got you know a rainstorm or a snowstorm instead of lasting for several hours or a day and dumping one amount of precipitation, it lasts for longer and the impacts are more extreme. So. It's definitely a trend that we're seeing in like I said, it's it's kind of a a newer area of research. I wouldn't say it's settled science, but definitely, the evidence is piling up in that direction you know heather was either with you or bill mckibben or both earlier in the coronavirus crisis that we talked about these maps that show how clear the skies were. You know the only good news at the time out of covid nineteen is the emissions obviously were being reduced dramatically and a couple of minutes we're going to speak to our transit guys including Jim Louisi- Former secretary of transportation who's worried the lessons we learned about fewer car trips are gonNA disappear the second covid nineteen. Disappears. Are we learning environmental lessons that we're going to keep in place. Post the fix for COVID. Nineteen or we just talk back to our old habits. You know that's that's a huge question, not just with the environment, but with everything, right? How much will life be changed? How much of a remote work and virtual interaction and all of these different social changes that we've very quickly adopted over the past several months? How much of those will stick around But I think one thing that we we can say pretty certainly is that you know that drop that we have seen in emissions in particulate pollution and greenhouse gas emissions, right without investment in green energy, renewable energy without investment in mass transit and low-carbon transportation Then as we see the economy come back, those emissions are likely to come back as well. Right and you have to think about while we have seen this year, a record for one year drop in emissions that doesn't mean that the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere has dropped. It means we put less in this year but it's a temporary little blip on a pretty strong upward trend. And it's it's not like I said actually reducing the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. So the overall impact on climate change is likely to be relatively small and I think there's a lot of concern that the season and the money that has been diverted away from. climate change during the pandemic could actually mean that when the economy starts to come back and we do resume whatever the new normal activity is that we could actually have set ourselves back in terms of climate action. The that if we're not continuing to install solar panels and develop wind turbines and work on electric vehicles and and mass transit during this period, if we're not investing in a green economy going forward that what will come back after the pandemic could could actually be As bad or worse could could of set us back So I think you know a lot of concern that people are going. Oh. This is great for the environment that we've all slowed down but the the long term impact could actually be the opposite. There's also things like. Next week climate week in New York City Virtual Virtual. This year but it is actually still happening but things like the UN Conference of Parties Right which is the big annual you end there's there's ongoing meetings throughout the year but this kind of that one big meeting that's where you know twenty fifteen Paris, the Paris climate accord came out of that year's Conference of Parties will that has been delayed by full year this year it's not happening until November of next year there isn't one this year and so you know what is the impact when major meetings like that are delayed by year and policy action perhaps is is delayed And for that matter, you know research that isn't able to go forward this year because researchers aren't able to get out into the field Um and do their their hands on work. There's lots of computer work and modeling that can go forward but yeah I think it will take a while as with many things to figure out what exactly the impact this pandemic will have been on on kind the the actual climate and on Climate Action but but definitely It's not just a a quick and easy like, oh, emissions were down. We're all good kinda story heather heather talking to our oceanside expert Heather Gallstone Heather. One thing to just backtrack a little bit. We were talking earlier about the stalled hurricanes and We all know about hurricanes obviously tropical storms doom and I were kind of confused before on the air about this Washington Post story that said for the second time on record at least five tropical cyclones or roaming the Atlantic. I what what is, what is the cyclone and second? How significant is that or problematic is that? Yeah we'll, and it's actually if you count all disturbances it's actually seven that are out in the. Atlantic. Right now, which is pretty big. So I mean cyclone is just a a term for one of these rotating storms and we call them hurricanes in the Atlantic but there's been a tropical storm, which is a less powerful version and a top tropical depression and tropical disturbance in all of these are just the the various stages of storm formation. Out in the Atlantic and basically what that says, that's a lot of storms to have out there at one time. Okay. you know and and while the expected impact of climate change is not necessarily that we will see a huge increase in the total number of storms. It's it's more about an increase in the intensity, the ranks of those storms that's expected to be the larger impact from climate change when you have warm ocean water that's what That's one of the key, not the only but one of the key factors that that leads to storm formation and so seeing that that many disturbances out there at one time. Yeah. That's that's significant. You know every once in a while actually yesterday we get a call from someone we were talking about climate change climate disruptions ought to call it and a call I said, no, this has been proven but my understanding and correct me if I'm wrong is that the only people now in the scientific world who are climate change deniers soon to be funded by the fossil fuel industry I mean every time I read about something like this new guy, the president appointed to know. Is. Yeah is been funded by the fossil fuel. Is there anybody? Out there anymore or are there still people who are on the fence who's got credibility, right? The, there's really an overwhelming and it is probably the strongest consensus in science that human emissions of greenhouse gases are causing climate change. There's just no other way to explain the dramatic trends that that we are seeing and the science linking greenhouse gases to a warming effect. The greenhouse I mean that's why they're called greenhouse gases. The greenhouse effect this is two hundred year old science It's not something that just popped up. And so I would say that in terms of knowing that climate change is human caused that it presents a real and as we're seeing right now, present danger many of them you know playing out in different ways around the world that is incredibly solid science Are there still questions about how quickly impact will progress and how severe things will get about when we reach irreversible tipping points about just how quickly we need to be acting? Yes. Absolutely. There are still questions for science to tackle when it comes to climate change but whether or not we're causing it and whether or not it's happening. Those are not questions. Okay. So Heather before you go. In an act of what is obvious jealousy on the part of the Withdrawal Research Center W. G. B. H.. Changed its name to Gbh and obviously the woods hole research center decided it had to change its name to is it as simple as that? I think you've got it backwards Kim I. I'm pretty sure we changed our name before you guys didn't I thought Gbh was the one who was so what is the? Climate Research Center, and why is it now called that Heather Goldstone? Well. So it is the same organization that we have been for thirty five years same mission same dedication to doing action solutions, oriented climate research and we really felt that you know we're in two thousand twenty. This is the outset of a critical decade we need to at a minimum we need to be having global emissions in the next ten years to be. On track to get to climate or are carbon neutral mid-century, and try to keep in check the worst impacts of climate change and We really felt that it was time to step up our game that we're really proud of what we've done over the past thirty five years. But we need to be doing even more and in order to do that, we needed a name that made it really clear. Who We are, what we do, where we came from and would well is in honor of our founder, Dr George. Well, who was one of the earliest and most vocal scientists testified alongside with Jim Hansen, back in nineteen eighty, six about the perils of climate change in testimonies. It's really amazing to actually go back and read his nineteen eighty, six testimony because he was talking about things then that were. more hypothetical and now we're actually seeing playing out and so the would well part is in honor of Dr, George will climate obviously that's our focus and so that was really to make that clear to the world was the impetus for the name change. Thank you very much good to Tortilla. Okay. Yeah. Gallstone. Is GonNa Change My name to I think To reflect who I am your middle name is Spencer. visit. Once is enough. Thank you. Thank you. Won't start as an expert in ocean science. Chief Communications Officer at the would well climate research center in woods hole in Gbh pitcher leader Heather. Thank you very much sense. We've said before we go. I've nothing to say about anything but. We've known for a long time. The Carson Look King City of Boston run a virus that means finally coronation time for the bike. Instead Chris Dempsey and Jim Louisa join us for that conversation next an eighty nine, seventy H. Boston called the Greg. Welcome back to Boston public radio. I'm Jim Brown. She's Margarita before we get to next segment just want to mention one of our staff members this tweet from the National Weather Service. The Sky is looking little hazy above Boston today well, the weather service reports at that's not. Because clouds, it is smoke from California. If it weren't for the California fires, we'd have nice quote crystal Blue Skies and sunshine assessing meteorologist the National Weather Service as quoted Boston magazine. So. Of thing got to. So quickly actually yeah. That's a long way for all that smoke. In any case join US along talk about all things transportation from MB budget woes to what could be the rain of the bicycle in the city of Boston or self-confessed transit nerds because Dempsey in Jim Louisi- Chris's director of transportation for four Massachusetts former assistant secretary of Transportation, Jim former transportation secretary himself a member of the transit matter bore matters board. Say Jim and a contributor to Commonwealth magazine. It's good to have you back together again and Jim. Thanks for joining us. It's nice to have the game back. Yeah. Thank you very much for joining us. So Christmas start with you because of money shortfalls Having a lot of them because of the coronavirus, the cheese now exploring service cuts is this a good idea is it's unavoidable. What's up? This is a this is a terrible idea in the midst of a crisis. So here's the context earlier this year, the Federal Government passed the Cares Act, which was actually pretty good at supporting transit, and that's going to get the through this year and into July first of twenty twenty one. But once we get to twenty, twenty one, what they call their fiscal year twenty to start. The tea is looking at a budget deficit of somewhere between three and six, hundred million dollars, and they're already putting on the table both fare increases and service cuts. We're talking about service cuts, Marjorie of up to one third of all N BTA service. So a bus that was arriving every seven minutes now arrives every eleven. Minutes it. Bust I was reading every thirty minutes. Now arrives every forty five minutes or maybe gets cut entirely and what that does of course is it makes every bus that is left on the road that much more crowded. So bus that has fifteen people today, which fits under the crowding standard English by the World Health Organization? That was twenty two people on it, which is now over the crowding standards but Chris. View e assuming that you there's a consensus least among the two of you and I'll join in that it's a bad idea what should they be doing? Well there's a conversation that the NBA needs to have about if they have to make cuts because of budget issue, how do they do that but I think the much more important conversation Jim is that we one that we all have with the federal government and especially with the state government, which we think needs to step up the legislature and the governor cannot afford to let the NBA. Fall. Into a death spiral of higher fares, less service fewer and fewer people, riding it, and effectively pull out one of the most important institutions that we need for a strong economic recovery and to survive the public health consequences of this pandemic, which is a perfect segue to jim see and the PC. Wrote and Cometh I think, Jim. We had a conversation with you a couple of months ago. Whether or not we were going to remember the good lessons and it's hard to say that of Covid nineteen namely that erodes you're not clogged with cars and all the things that flow from that you're suggesting that we're about to return to our auto centric ways and then some, what's what's the evidence of the? Well the piece I planted out a couple of examples. The most obvious one being the redirection. That mass dot has taken on the Allston landing project you know to basically. Repeat design mistakes of the nineteen sixties and to not take the opportunity that's in front of them to build. a a highway system in a way that's much more responsive to multimodal ISM to to use of rail to use of transit in the Allston area It seems like we're you know people are more comfortable doubling down on the status quo, but the status quo isn't going to get us to a better future. The status quo is going to bring us back to pre Cova. TIMES, that nobody liked. or other countries learning the lesson better than we appear to be learned here like where look at look at Taras France where the mayor talks about fifty minute walkability and you know making use of the density of the urban environment in restricting automobile use in promoting transit. whether it's by reducing fares kids on transit to promoting bicycle lanes there. There are civilized places in the world they get that we're about to come to the closure on the first quarter of the twenty first century. Here in the United States and here at Metro Boston too often decisions are being made. That reflect mid twentieth century thinking I. Just gotTa say it boggles the mind if you think about this current administration. Promoting the idea with the governor's Commission on the future transportation that we have to move more people and fewer be. More people fewer. Vehicles. And the governor's called for zero emissions by twenty fifty. I'm on board I. Applaud it. How do we get there but we're not gonNA get there if we don't raise that revenue for the NBA Chris pointed out the House as we know. Made an effort to raise net new revenue Senate has not carried suit governors nowhere to be found when it comes and say weather Jim wasn't the house pre pre-coded that vote or wrong was pretty Kobe but that doesn't mean that the need if anything denise even more urgent now we sit back and keep our fingers crossed and hope the Joe Biden gets elected with the Democratic House the Democratic Senate and then expect that we're going to get largest next year. Great. Great. I'll see you on election day or maybe election month that will figure out if that is going to happen but if it doesn't happen We've squandered an opportunity this year to take advantage of what the house began as a as a platform for raising that revenue and we've walked away from it. And it's a big big mistake because as Chris pointed out, we're GONNA hit a wall next year unless the federal regimen comes. To our rescue and if the only way that come into our rescue is if there's a democratic. President and probably Democratic Senate. So we're going to do we're going to run government, and if we're going to provide people with the public, good by keeping our fingers crossed God help us you know this is really for both of you. Starting with you crispin you just mentioned Jamila. You. Know some free transit in Paris we read a thing that they're experimenting with a Free Rides for under eighteen year olds and I guess there was some experimentation even I guess is falling apart in the UK for Seniors and free transit somebody who's a big free transit fan at seven o'clock this morning released a. Campaign video saying she's running for Mayor Michelle. Wu. She's talked a about transportation a lot about three transportation starting you. Chris. How is the Wu Candidacy GonNa? Affect the debate about. How the tea works. In Boston and beyond well I think she's already impacted the conversation I do not think it's a coincidence that later today Mayor Walsh is holding a press conference about his healthy streets Boston initiative already creating new bike lanes and I'm sure we're going to talk about that later. This conversation she has been a leader on transportation since she joined the city council, not just within the city of Boston but really across the region and across the state last year, she was the leading figure to oppose. Fare increases and say, don't you think there are other things we should be doing here in fact, shouldn't we be going in the Opposite Direction Jim you've heard me use this stat on this show before but it's worth repeating since one, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety, one, the Massachusetts state gas tax has gone up three cents that's fourteen percent since nineteen ninety-one. NBA Bus Fares are up three hundred percent in the same period of time. So the economic message we're sending two people is Dr More and take the US, and then we wonder and scratch our heads why we have the worst traffic congestion in the entire country. Now, of course, that's not true today in the midst of this public health crisis but you can be sure that that congestion is coming back by the way you don't go back to nineteen ninety-one every time you site that statistic. Chris Dempsey. I think what I come back with is something either you told us or read in the globe that in Charlie Baker's five plus years here he's proposed to increases in thief fares and zero increases in the cost of driving your cars is that That's absolutely correct. So. Jim, could you add your two cents on the Wu candidacy kept by the way this is not about. Endorsing a Wu. They're just she talks a lot about transportation. Do you think the impact will be as profound as your buddy here does Oh, I think I think he's I. Think. Christmas. Right. I think. It has been already profound. Look her video today had footage of her using the orange line and NBA buses. It was pretty extraordinary that somebody aspiring to leadership is embracing public transit the way that video embraced it and so. I look whoever is GonNa win the election for mayor can't be perceived or be a status quo candidate work. This city is way past that. So It's good thing that the mayor is doing what he's doing today. It's a good thing that Michelle is out there promoting. A conversation about fares you know I agree i. I think I. Think I said this publicly I think we should make all buses free I think that. The old idea that is substantial portion over a third of the teas operating budget must come from fare revenue needs to be question needs to be reconsidered. Particularly as we emerge from this pandemic. That she has already triggered conversations that are good ones I. think that the dynamic between her and the mayor in terms of thinking about. Dedicated bus lanes protected cycling lanes is a good one. The city does need I pointed this out the article accountable. To be I, think a lot more aggressive. They've done some really good things, but they still need to be aggressive. On changing out the public realm both to reflect the realities of the pandemic but also to reflect the realities of how to give people better access and better air quality in a post pandemic environment. We have statistics data from Harvard from Bu Public Health from the University of Cambridge. In the UK that long term exposure to particular matter causes significant vulnerability to Kobe and fifteen percent higher mortality rates. You can't do that with the same auto centric approaches that existed before the pandemic. We're talking to Chris Allen and Jim Jim. Chris Dempsey. Excuse me our transportation guys on Chris. You mentioned before more bike lanes a what's happening in this downtown. Bike networks network is going to be permanent. The Club is saying, yeah. So this is something that Mayor Walsh's been meeting on and I think we should give him some credit for leading on transportation in this area. In response to cove eight, he joins many other mayors and select boards around the state in saying, let's provide a little bit more space for pedestrians and cyclists. so He created a temporary bike lane network that connects core parts of downtown. These are some of the iconic streets of Boston trump street, Boylston Charles, Arlington Street, and those have been per of Ben Temporary. They've been put up with cones and they made the decision yesterday and they'll be announcing it formerly today to actually make that. Permanent, and to install full-time permanent protected facilities for cyclists I actually got to use these today. You know normally I'd take the Green Line in. But in the midst of the pandemic anytime, I can be off the train and on the bike feels like the right thing to do to give myself and others more space. So it has transformed Marjorie the last five or six blocks of my commute. It used to be that you are coming down calm have, and then you were thrown onto Arlington. Street to try to navigate the rest of your way into downtown Boston right Arlington Street under the status quo before this change was as wide as the Massachusetts Pike in terms of space that it gave vehicles. CA. People's reaction was to speed and treat it like a highway because it was as white as a highway. This is the road between two of Boston's most iconic places, the Public Gardens in Newbury Street and we put a highway in between. So taking one of those lanes and making it a cycle lane will slow some of those cars down it will stop. Them from speeding, but still provide them ample space to do what they're doing while also creating safe and protected space for cyclists. It's a win win for everybody and exactly the type of thing that the mayor should be doing not just downtown but in every neighborhood in the city and we hope he will do more of that can't can I just be? One second you know this is real important stuff and I do applaud the city for this more should be happening in this arena. Anyone who's been to or has seen pictures of Amsterdam the Netherlands. Everyone's cycling right? Right. They think that's been happening forever it has not. In following World War Two is a very autocentric place the Netherlands Amsterdam. The cycling stuff has happened as a result of citizens demanding a different way to approach mobility because of a lot of situations that went on there were children were being killed by cars. I think that. Here, in the United States in this moment in time in Boston this pandemic, this pattern break that I referred to a my article things have to change permanently it's we could I'm not gonNA say we're GONNA become Amsterdam overnight many saying we should but I believe the people like Chris and others who have the opportunity to take advantage of safe cycling lanes. We'll do so in increasing numbers and we're not GONNA have small business can back the way we want or restaurants or the urban vitality that we expect to have without having a transformation of the public street scape. So what are they doing this Jim? This is a rare opportunity for I. mean again, the Covid nineteen has been a nightmare from to Z or maybe eight, A. Y. and Z. is it provides an opportunity. We you know we talked to heather goldstone about emissions being down or we're going to piggyback on that traffic is down dramatically car traffic is down dramatically we're going to piggyback on that. There's some pretty creative thinkers. I guess in the abstract, we've been trying to get secretary of transportation on our show for like a year unsuccessfully why are they not taking advantage of that as a stupid question? Jim. No. No I think it's left. There are two factors. One is money and one is political will now the secretary yesterday said, well, you know these dedicated bus lanes, cycling lines costs money yes, they do. I go back to the disconnect between administration that says, WE WANNA move more people, fewer vehicles. We want to be net zero carbon by twenty fifty, but doesn't lead when it comes to raising the revenue to do what the secretary says you need money to do. Right why is there this disconnect on? Why don't people hold people accountable for it beyond number one Number two that needs to be political will so I. Think the mayor, for example. Should see the benefits of doing this and do more of it. You know I pointed out an example on Dorchester Avenue in the article I. wrote in coming out about taking median out and and not. You know because we can't possibly take travel lane or apart marketing alkaline like give me a break Hui building the streets for the citizens of Boston or people driving through and those status quo old ways of thinking have to change in a fundamental way for us to rebuild the city that we love that we have that we wanna see thrive I can guarantee you small business restaurants neighborhood. Stores and businesses they won't survive unless we respond in a way that says, we're not giving over public space on the street. Exclusively or primarily the people driving through anymore those days have to be in the past and the secretary is right. They need money but they should be advocating for money instead they don't, and you know there's a stalemated Beacon Hill and. You, guys I've become obsessed with this. Melania Casts Boulevard Plan because they they want the city wants bike lanes there too. But they are talking about taking down these trees that are huge. And I just this doesn't seem to be productive either you can plant new trees. It'll be eighty years before their or one hundred years before they're giving the cover that they are now. So is there a way around that? I mean do we have to chop down? A quarter of the trees there to have bike lanes. So Marjorie, I actually drove through this stretch last weekend tab. Traffic. is but it's also incredible to see everything the ribbons around the trees they've marked all the trees that are gonNA be cut. Tree after tree after tree in the midst of Environmental Justice Community that has suffered disproportionately from auto emissions for multiple generations now and remember that quarter only exists because of the plan in the nineteen sixties and early seventies to build the southwest corridor and have the highway. Thankfully that was stopped but there are still scars in those neighborhoods from that autocentric planning that occurred back. Then I don't know all of the particulars of that stretch of Melania. Cast to know what the trade offs are but it, there should be a way to preserve those trees for a community that wants their trees to stand to also provide safe biking and walking facilities and still have space for vehicles that are trying to move that through that corridor to let's make it work and not settle for a plan that requires an entire generation to grow up with saplings, but not the strong trees that are there today. We're trying to Chris them seeing Jim Malloy's transportation guys can we move from a a good news story the the bike lanes being made permanent downtown. To a troubling story, this whole armrest on the teeth thing I if there's ever an expression that characterises something beautifully hostile architecture whoever came up with that phrase really nails it. They're putting these arms. These mental arm rests in a number of stations The contention I guess by those doing it is it's about providing help the disabled people in seniors southern get up more easily from the benches that sort of thing and the concern from homeless advocates is not about helping seniors and the disabled or even if it is it's discriminating against people that use those benches is the only place where they can sleep in some relative peace starting with you, Jim, where do you come down on this? Well, the first thing I want to say is you know I don't WanNA question anybody's motives This well because I don't I don't know I have no evidence. I have no evidence people at the T.. Deliberately. Made a design decision to eliminate the chance that someone would sleep on a bench because frankly if that was the. it's going to backfire right because guess what if I can't rest on the bench I might decide rest on the red line. Trains. It's not like. It's not like somehow that's GonNa make the person that. So if there was a if there was a motive to preclude that from happening, it will have no effect other than to have that person find a different place, right? So I. Lay. Raises a larger issue, which is how mindful are we? Of the world in which we live of the issues that are presented and how they will be perceived and I think that to me, it's a more of a reflection of inexplicable insularity. To use race to going to phrase where people don't seem to be mindful or aware of the world in which they live, how they're designed, decisions will be perceived. And what the ramifications of those decisions will be. So again, I, don't question people's motives but I think that this clearly. presented. This the sense that no one was thinking number one. And number two that there needs to be a little bit more thoughts put into. How public spaces of any kind Are. Designed because this was a real this this did not have the appearance of anything other than what people responded Chris quickly if you can yeah I think there's just underscores the importance of public transit as a fundamental institution in our society you know for some of us, it's about commuting but for so many other people it's about. Healthcare. The only way they can access healthcare or the only way they can visit their family or even in the case of some folks, it's the only way. They can get a roof over their head when they need to get out of the rain for three or four hours because they don't have anywhere else to be and to me, it screams out for investing more in public transit in upholding it as a core institution and valuing it in that way. Gentlemen is always thank you so much for your thoughts. We really appreciate your time. Thanks. So we look forward to seeing you guys. Person Right. Now, we're going for a two two. Months not years here. So Gentlemen Thank you Chris Director Transportation from Massachusetts and former assistant secretary of Transportation Jamali sees former transportation secretary member at the Transit Matters Board distributed come wealth magazine. Thank it'll be. Tough ultra. Sorry. Martyrdom racy. What's ahead this remind people this Friday in response to one caller and then subsequent emails and twitter's Tech Contributor Andy Inaugu be taking polls on remote learning any. Feature apparent or a student who is about tech issues of learning I, call on Friday or the preferred route get questions. Early, you can email them to be p. r. A. W., G.. B. H., Dot Org. What's coming up? Marguerite. Meeting the melting tip of the iceberg new exhibit and the ravages of climate change for talk to. Executive editor, JARED THOUGHT THAT UP NEXT? Mike the Boston Public Radio Jim Brady and Margaretha while museums have long practice the art of physical distancing visitors from their masterpieces and art installations. They have a new challenge keeping US museum goers physically distance from one another the latest ones in the region figure out how to do this or the MFA in the Worcester, Art Museum, which are reopening this fault journalists. Online. Talk about this, a new mural from black whether or not. It's safe to review movies as Gbh is executive. Arts Center Jared Bowen he's hosted the TV series open studio, which you can catch Friday nights at eight thirty right here on Gbh too and he has been weather proofing. Windows Gbh stay busy last couple of months. Hello Jared Bone how are you? I'm almost done almost. Good. So a lot of work. Let me tell you. Thank, you so much. It was great to be with you both during that time. So. So Jared Bowen, very exciting. The MFA is reopening. Let's start with that. Yeah I. Think we've we've obviously seen over the course of the summer. The museums start to inch back to reopening and as you might expect for the larger museums like the MFA and the Worcester Art. Museum it's just a lot more work involved in part because in the eighth case, for instance, they had to lay off and furlough some employees. So it meant bringing people back retraining them figuring out how they're going to use that large space. But the great news is for for museum lovers. The Museum of fine. Arts will open again on September twenty sixth but slightly different experience from what we know the museum be. For instance, like most other museums that have opened it'll be timed ticket entry. You won't be able to purchase your tickets out the museum you have to go online and do it in advance. Vastly, diminished capacity and then for the size of the MFA and the space, they will actually create a prescribed route for you So it's basically one way and also initially is going to be limited to the art of the Americas galleries. which is about a little over thirty galleries it'll be open to the public and then throughout the fall continue with opening other special exhibitions. But I think this is just a way to understand how people. Engage with the museum how they can keep safety precautions in place by just keeping it to a smaller scale. It am I not right. A couple of weeks ago in responsible, there've been a number of responses, but in response to the. Heavy criticism because of the racially disparate treatment they were giving some. Students and others. I. Guess. Last year this director of data rate of belonging and inclusion I. Hope I got the name rate whatever was appointed. A. Couple of weeks ago how big a deal is that? Well it's a huge acknowledgement I think by the MFA that they can do better I i. think it's still in dispute what exactly happened with those students and it has been serving conversations that school just remind people. This is a group from a school endorsed Esther That said they were treated very poorly when they went to the Museum of Fine Arts and so there was a lot of conversation that sprang out of that and their credit. The museum is going to be opening one of their major exhibitions which is. And the HIP hop generation. The first ever showed a look at John Michelle Bosque of the graffiti artists from nineteen hundred New York in the context of his other artists friends in that era. This is show that had been long in planning and I. Think you'll see other notions that the buffet is is reconsidering how it presents itself changing art or one of the things that it's director Matthew Teitelbaum told me. Is that they're looking at wall text and panels and and reconsidering how they present art by basically going back into cultures, own language, writing the wall text, and then translating it back into English. So not looking at it from the outside in but really trying to take a more inside approach and then coming out of that just to be more holistic and just before we move on I, just mentioned the Worcester Art Museum will open on October seventh and the Cape. Ann Museum will on October First So it is an exciting moment to feed most of art museums come back online. The one big exception here are a college art museums You haven't seen the Hood Museum open yet or the Harvard art museums or a list the Rose Art Museum and I think they just have to move according to university guidelines might be some time before we see them come back online we'll. The students are too busy partying without so they've away and. I soon, the same sort of deal where you limited hours of opening and people should check online and may have to buy the tickets online at all the. Different. Delivery plays. Yeah, you'll have to it's just I think in. This is good too I. Think it's teaching US how experiences ends. We we all have to be more aware we have to be more careful and so yeah, I would absolutely as much as I. Think I know about these exams of open I have to go online each time to to reorient myself to what the procedures are. So, obviously, it's good to know before you go. So speaking museums, can we talk about this talking about timely exhibit? It's very hard when you you know this when you read about an exhibit to get a real feel for what it's like to be in its physical presence. But I read about this climate exhibit out at Mass Moca, which is as we've discussed before I was there for the first time either last summer the summer before one of the most beautiful spaces I've ever seen the space itself is is this great work of art? It is unbelievable. Can you describe what this climate thing is the guy gone out there? Yeah, this is the new installation, an exhibition by the artists Flame Qui-. He's actually Boston born artist who in in some ways I think he he actually works as a journalist but practicing as an artist and what I mean by that is he has a huge interest in what is happening to our planet and climate change and the effects of shifting landscapes. And so he has taken it upon himself rather than just read about it or watch it on the news. He's actually traveled the world talking to scientists and then having those conversations he's then turned around and created these massive large scale sculptures that are now on. Mass. MOCA I should point out I haven't seen this person, but I have interviewed him out of. All the images and video but the the Beauty Jim as you were describing if masks is that you go into this cavernous space major warehouse, five, two galleries that only a few artists in the world who work on this scale like Wedneday Qua- can can show their work and when you walk in, it's fully immersive, and of course, as attend his intent here is to give people who can't travel the world who can't go to the Arctic who can't. Talk to scientists in person about the disappearing permafrost to give them a sense of that landscape by making it on massive scale, and that's the fun. That's the poignancy of Mass Moca is that you walk these galleries you you interact with some degree with this art of pay over you or tilting toward you. Sometimes, it can be even threatening he told me what I interviewed him. That's part of what he wants to do is give this sense of severity. And scale. I think. Obviously. Create this an exhibition I. Think we find this and what we're seeing even though it's on our small screens where we're seeing in the fires on the West Coast But just how small we are compared to the the magnitude of our are shifting planet around us. So they mention he talks about the permafrost dissolving ice hurricanes. It's all in this exhibition that's on view mass MOCA through September of next year. Ball and this may seem probably kind of pay question at this time but you allow these museums have got these great little cafeterias in outdoor eating spaces and stuff what's going on with those are those going to be closed? It's case by case or what's the deal. Yeah I think it's case by case for the most part you you will not see those restaurants open. I think they realize it's just probably not prudent because they have so much else to attend to. But the MFA is doing a really great thing I. think they're they're bringing food trucks to be in front of the NFL. so you can pop out and have a bite. After you experience the art member, our mandate at the Gardner there Jerry. I do what a great meal that was. Unbelievable. Getting back to mass MOCA, in the spirit of balance which Margaret and I believe in a lot if they're gonNA have this huge exhibit on climate change, do they have a huge exhibit on raking the forest floor? In tribute to the. United, states okay. Okay. On. The. Museums. I I sound silly maybe but I can't be the only person. It can be tiring to go to a museum and it's great to take a little coffee break in the middle of your tour and then go back in I. You know because I mean don't you find that? I actually well, actually I go further I would say with the Cafeterias Most Museums I've been to I would say about ninety percent of my time is in the cafeteria at about ten percent. The, the ICS, a great shot the MFA is a great Gift Shop. Well, I. But these are of a Modern Art New York City is the Best Gift Shop County Museum. I'm sorry. Especially, if you don't have any taste in jewelry or things like that. And I don't. So you're GONNA be seemed fine arts and you kind of have this curated gorgeous jewelry told by artists. Are Those going to be open? Is a case by case, we don't know. What I will tell you that I agree with you I I have about a ninety minute Max before I feel my brain's shutting down. Break I think there's actually been science about that too I. I think that's pretty standard time and it's good to just take a break cleanse your mind but at the the. No they of the main shop won't be open the smaller ones the peabody Essex Museum the shop is open the same with the ice and rain US charter a shot a story out of the Mount in Lenox on Friday and I was very excited to visit the gift shop because I was able to buy a math made out of the twelve from. Warton's bedroom, the leftover has been. Restoration and renovation there and masks museums have become a really big deal. So it's it's a fun way to support the arts but great I'll help out a little bit. Okay. We're talking to our arts man Jagmohan. So what's going on with What's this one time machine was? Shea Alright. Time Machine I'm sorry. But this is a really poignant film I think if there are so many layers to this. So this is available on demand by Arts Emerson through September twenty second. Persson has always in addition to its live theater program and season has always had a really robust film program. So I think it's been Easy for them to to make a pivot into the film world a little bit more during this time, and they intend to go full throttle with it. Going forward as we know that theater likely won't open before next spring at the very earliest probably later. But our time machine is about It's a documentary about Shanghai artist. His name is Milan. And he? Grew up in China with a father who in mother who are both in the arts is father was particularly severe as director of the Beijing Opera and the Shanghai Opera never really made time for his son they. They became more acquainted with one another as Milan grew up but now he finds himself in his forties and his father is suffering from Alzheimer's and so long takes it upon himself to create this puppet show. We're really he wants to tell his father's story and their families story but it's important on a couple of different levels because one he wants to take his father back to that time as his father's memories are fading away but you also see a man again in his forties who's very much looking for his father's approval. His father is incredibly revered in China for his directing and they've never worked together. They've never collaborated his father's input is incredibly meaningful to him to see him go through this process of creating this puppet show and I say puppet show but it's really cinematic these gorgeous sets and unbelievable design with these life like puppets and you see this back and forth. The Sun, the father as you see, the father's memory fading is it's really poignant and heartbreaking and as I. Say there are so many different access points into this. It's been really successful film festival front. So very smart Arts Emerson to bring it in is it is it available now to people? On the site, it is yeah on demand through the twenty second. So jared. So that's on demand. Are you? Are you reviewing movies like going into a movie theater and doing movie reviews or you waiting like most sane people. Absolutely not. Here's a little bit of background. This is no no absolutely not. This is how for the reviewing process that's how difficult works pre pandemic there would be screening. You would go to a critic screening and it would either be held at night where they radio giveaways and you're an auditorium filled with people or would be in the afternoon where just the film critics in the Boston area would gather and watch a film. So, of course, when the pandemic started the Cedar? Shutdown. And what they started doing, they being the the studios, they would send out screener links. So we access them on at home on our televisions computers, but then comes along a film like ten Christopher. Nolan. Nolan's film the first big blockbuster to open in this pandemic era and we know we're looking forward to the James Bond Film and some other big things Christopher. Nolan, very very strongly that his films should not be viewed. On a television screen or on a computer screen because it is about the huge screen experience, it's about the sound experience it's about gathering but there are a lot of us. Myself included who refused to go into a theater. My reasoning for this is that right now I, don't WanNa be in the space in an enclosed space where I can't be guaranteed that somebody's not going to be wearing a mask, the entire time and we know. That theaters are allowing food. So obviously have to take your mask off to eat food. It's just as much as I wanted to support theaters their business like everybody else or so many employees to rely on and their jobs in theaters. I just don't feel comfortable and I wasn't. I certainly wasn't going to be forced to go into a theater because Christopher Nolan decided. That was the only way that I should see film what's happening a By the way I'm totally with you we're GONNA talk to listeners about it a little bit later there was an interesting Paul from morning consult, which says that twenty four percent of millennials, which is still quite low of are willing to go in a movie theater and boomers and I feel I speak for all boomers in this regard eleven percent, which is virtually nobody which I you know I feel really bad for the independent theaters. Like some of the great ones here, how are places like the not the chains the coolidge is and all those kinds of how they survive in this. It's I don't I don't have a clear cut answer to this but I know that they have robust programming a frequent contact with the coolidge corner theatre. In Brookline, in fact, I just watched a film online last night that I screamed they will be out in a couple of weeks. It'll be at the COOLIDGE I think they've been really smart and how they've been able to pivot and market and I think the great thing about your local. Movie houses is that they have a built in solid audience who wants to support them because they're tied to the institution like it's family or something. So I hope for their case that that's what's happening. I haven't heard otherwise but you if you're looking for films I, I think that's a great way to support is to look to be able to stream it via of small independent movie house because they they get part of that revenue, of course. Okay Edge I bone. Let's talk about some public art that people can just go and see explain what this Shit the shape of play without about. This is the new installation that just opened on the Waterfront Park also known as Christopher Columbus Park the park rate there on on the waterfront by the North End. famously is now not showcasing Christopher Columbus Statue. but this is an installation presented by the Jewish arts collaborative and curated and produced by now, and they're the public art. organization that we have in the city and it's a piece that was created by sorry Hurrell. Looked at this notion imposes the question. Do you feel free to play now originally, this was supposed to be installed this spring with Pat Passover looking at the meaning of freedom and playgrounds in that realm and again. Three. To play in certain areas and access and whatnot that obviously changed dramatically during the pandemic where we've seen our freedom vastly restricted through a lot of work with the city of Boston, they were able to open this and it's really interesting. It's in the kind of a wide open green space. And you walk up and you see the fan boxes and springing out of the sandbox boxes are blocked with colors on them, and they immediately Harkin you back to your childhood. I think about six blocks that are rising up taller than than we are, and the other thing that Sarah has done is gone around prior to the pandemic. When she was conceiving this these, she collected sound from playgrounds in and around Boston and has created the soundscape, the plays out of these blocks. So you go there and you have these different experiences. But David I was there, I saw some children playing running around some of them. In the sand I saw a woman who came up and just probably did what I did. She just stood there and was listening and you stop yourself and I think, yes, the artists may have posed the question do you feel free to play but art is always how it resonates with you. First of all, steadily I loved it, and then later learned that the artist kind of said it was born out of the by if the playground a sandbox by way of the Bowel House that great German school which created so much art in the Twentieth Century but also you stand there in the middle of your city. And you hear these sounds of playgrounds and then you hear the other sounds of the city but also at a time right now when I was there last week, the city is still very quiet th there's not a lot of life to it and so you're thinking about childhood meant but playing meant what it means now it's I found it to be really poignant actually. And how about this new? Project by a a rod pro back glimpse this this mural project that's going on with a gibbs and his illustrator rob still. This is another piece of public art that just officially opened this week. This was commissioned by the MFA is about the only surviving project mission by the MFA, in where there was supposed to be celebrating a year Long One, hundred fiftieth anniversary of the FA but rob pro black gives is one of the founders of artists for humanity that group that puts kids to work making art and so he's created latest in his his breathed life euro series. The first one a few years ago You find this little boy who's blowing mightily and just seem so happy. The next mural found the boy lifting his joyous stir onto his shoulders and now in this piece on Madison Park. High School, we see the sister out on own in the world This massive bureau can be seen at least a mile away she floats above Boston. In this boat bubble, her hair is still stars Because the universe is always on her mind which is what Rob Gibbs told me and he really he did this for his two year old daughter. So that would have a notion of positivity something great to look up to acknowledge that these are really tough times. Of course, what we're talking about with race in this country and everything else that's happening but he wants these moments where people can take a breath and look up and she really is glorious also. It's not it's not an accident as Makita McCreary is the chief of learning and engagement at the MFA. told me that she floats above Boston police headquarters, which is directly across the street. It's just it's a wonderful moment for the city to have this great great mural. He is really talented by the way I mean his stuff it's just spectacular it really. Huge thing for the city. One last thing about this, we talked about this before. But there was quite a Brouhaha and countered Kim Janney has talked about this this destruction of this public art that had been created by Richard Gomez It seemed to have been an axe or confusion about how it was taken down but it was taken down even though the contractor says, he told people explain what's going on here or what was going on it gets the bomb of this and. Can this be prevented from happening again. I mean this is I only know from what I've read about this but this was such a shame for the city because. There was you know like I was talking about the movie houses you tied to what's in your community whether it's a piece of art or an institution or group of people, and so this mural had been in the neighborhood for so long and a developer came along and they're changing the neighborhood and I know there's a back and forth about what people were told and but suddenly the neurologist disappeared. But when you have a part I should have said excuse me, I should say it was an image of Nelson Mandela that was in the mural. Sorry go ahead. Jared. Right and and so when you have something that's foundational again when you have something to look up to it, was it was gorgeous rendering of him and then suddenly disappears not only does it appear but you see it in the rubble around you it just. Again you have to wonder if this were to happen in in back, bay or other parts of our city that are a little tonio that will a little where more tension is paid without I've actually happened I do need to get an update. I'm sorry because I remember when we had this discussion, the developer whose name I forget his company's Roxbury. Based Guy minority-owned own development company. He's he he said he had met with the artists by the way with Gomez about replicating the thing. So we should find out before Jarvis your next time what the state of affairs of. Communication misunderstanding kind of thing. We don't know. Let's more. It have been better handled. Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you very much. Great taught you i. hope you finish the weather stripping by the weekend if you can. If you have time and we all helping got movie theaters again by two. Thousand. Twenty. Four. Health? I've got to be underestimated how many windows are. Somebody forgot to remind tire buildings. Might take longer, Jim. Okay. And you're doing a great job. I saw jar he was just that you saw. In one of those belts. Impressive. Thanks. GBH Executive Ourselves Jarboe joins US regularly hosted always forget to ask you about open studio at you still there jared. Yeah I'll just quickly say site we have a big interview. This week was Diane Pollock Law, the American choice theaters. This is the first time that she's spoken out publicly about racism charges against her and the institution. And she talks about what that has meant for her what she is doing with the a RT and with their team at the archie going forward to have a complete and whole anti-racism Stanton? So She was accused of never happen again. Wow, congratulations. That should be fantastic. That was great. Thanks a lot as I said before Gbh. Ourselves richer born joins us. Regularly, he supposed to TV series open studio, which had cashed this Friday night at eight thirty, every Friday night three. Jared. Thanks again up next C. N.. N.'s John King joins us for some political talk and much else keep you on nine seven Gbh boss. Welcome back to Boston Public Radio Margery eagan Jim Brown join US line over the latest headlines is John King Jonah's CNN's chief national correspondent and anchor of inside politics, which can catch weekdays and Sunday Mornings at eight. Hello John King. Hello Hello happy. Tuesday. To. To John. You'd be happy or unhappy that we've got smoke- smokey stuff here in Boston that's come from the California fires has come a long way skies hazy instead of bright. Blue. Anyway. It's been surprising to me the President we is starting to hold rallies. He's had some inside endure rallies. But previous I just thought he was really kind of separating himself from the the the crowds in a casual way. Now, he's talked about separating himself from the crowds. On purpose voice to a report of didn't want to get too close to her at the last rally was concerned about that and yet his advice his crowds are NATO the on these rallies right on top of each other is kind of a I mean he's protecting himself but not the attendees it's a weird dynamic is is. Talking about this. well, you think he's facing condemnation almost damnation from public health experts who say it's just a reckless signal to send from somebody who's in a position of leadership quite a bit of that look will you know it takes a few weeks for these things to play out but? At the the Nevada rally number one, the president takes an oath to uphold the laws of the nation that you know he's a federal president he's president of the country, but we would assume that means all laws right at least in spirit if not in letter of that oath in Nevada he was breaking the law, he was violating the rules the business where he had the indoor rally has been find by the governor or by the state for violating the rules he went on to Arizona and you're right he was distant from most of the participants but. He has a whole bunch of people packed in space many of them not wearing masks, but you don't have to be a Democrat or Republican or an Independent said, all your politics aside the public health experts tell us this is why our children can't go back to school or if they do go back to school, they're socially distance. This is why only about a third, it's a little higher than that. Now might be forty percent of Americans are back in the office because you have to rotate at least to keep people socially distant but look where you know seven weeks. From today, we count votes seven weeks from today if you're GONNA go out and vote in person as Election Day and the president wants to send a visual signal that the worst is behind us when it comes to the corona virus, let's hope the worst is behind us, but we're at a very interesting point. We're still averaging around thirty, five, thousand new infections day the public health experts King I. Don't pretend to understand this, but I've learned a lot about it as we all have the last seven months tell us that if the temperatures cool and people go inside. And the flu comes along and the coronavirus has a stronger rate of transmission. When the temperatures are cooler stronger strain time, you're probably using the wrong words, but this could get worse again quickly, and if you're starting from a baseline of thirty, five, thousand new infections it can exponentially grow and so the what Dr Fauci says Hunker Down Be. Careful he doesn't say. Hide he doesn't say don't go out he doesn't say you have to lock everything down again he just says be careful where your mask keep your distance and so that's the top expert in the United States government Dr Burkes is traveling the country saying the same thing what is the president doing? He's putting hundreds if not a couple thousand people packed in a room. It's a risk it's just a risk and we know from the Republican convention we know from the Trump Tulsa rally we know from the Sturgis bike event that when you put people together, not just together whether standing around for fifteen minutes or more in close quarters with no masks. That's how you that's how you create a super spreader event We'll his rallies be super. Spreader events I hope not I don't wish that on anybody but all the scientists tell you they likely will, and so you know two people come in infected. Then then just do the math right one person in fact, somebody infect somebody infect somebody, and you're up to a couple hundred more cases if not a couple of thousand more cases than we don't need that right now. On Your Air and I'm sure this makes people bristle but not me Carl Bernstein of Woodward and Bernstein Air who's been on with Anderson Cooper two or three last four five nights has used the term. It's a homicide elect by the President United States and I have to say I am ready to sign up for the language when you allow if not. Encourage and they say they don't. But the reality is they do thousands of people to come together many of whom I saw. Last night were older people sitting shoulder to shoulder standing before trump arrived inches from each other talking right in each other's faces with no mass I don't know how you describe it. Not You I don't know how one describes it. Is Any other situation is your essentially encouraging people to engage in behavior which your own public health people say we'll be injurious to their health. It is amazing. We're been in some ways desensitized I guess for this, but it is amazing to me when I see these images that there is not a national uprising of Republicans and Democrats saying enough is. Just. It's it's it's a tall, and by the way, the behavior of the individuals is not just donald trump the behavior of the individuals is appalling as far as I'm concerned because they're gone back home to their communities to their neighborhoods to their whatever the hell they do their workplaces after having been massless and not distance at these meetings I really it's. You know Karl Use, those terms, Dr Jonathan Reiner who is a cardiologist at George Washington? Who was Dick Cheney's who Dick Doctor with the Cheney was in the White House look the medical community. They say some things that are pretty strong. He called it negligent homicide. He said somebody in his view somebody will die i. you know I I tend to be a smart Doctor Reiner about the science so I would call it reckless in the sense that you have a position you're in a position of responsibility you're supposed to set an example right? That's what we teach your children whether the president should be an example to you I, view it as reckless. There are ways to do he. Loves this crowd but this is this is more about we've talked about this in the past that trump loves the rallies just like Bill Clinton love crowds like Barack Obama of politicians love crowds they love being cheered. There is an ego part of this a little bit of narcissism to every politician and there's nothing wrong with that. Again, the question is, do you take to an extreme and I? You know a lot of people make the argument I think self evident at times that this president does in this but this is not just about him wanting to feel loved by his crowds because he's you know he's behind. In the polls again again, you don't have to like the president to understand that part of it. However, it is just the idea that we're in the middle of this pandemic and that everybody tells you the the numbers are a little bit better today than they were a couple of weeks ago. But that doesn't mean they'll be better tomorrow or more importantly because of the incubation period there'll be better in two weeks. We're still waiting. We're still several days away from finding out if the Labor Day you know if Labor Day like Memorial Day and July fourth reversed you know in the case of Memorial Day reversed. Progress we were down to about eighteen thousand new infections on average a day the memorial day we got up to close to seventy thousand. Yeah. Middle by the end of July early. August we're back down now we've cut that in half we're down to about thirty, five, thousand, a day all the experts would tell you and you guys know this because you live in one of the great medical communities of the world all the experts will tell you. You gotta shove that thing down, get it down below ten thousand before the flu season gets here we're running out of time we're running out of time and the. The trend of the last couple of days tells me that at a minimum, we're going to plateau somewhere in the thirties. And possibly start twisting backup, which would just be horrible I. don't care about your politics you know yes. If the if that number goes goes back up I. Suspect that will hurt the president politically. If we're going back up in cases again as we get closer to the election I suspect that would hurt the president politically just as a human being dear God you. Want to shove it down forget politics minute but events like that, and it's not just the event. It's the signal sent to people to your Jim. We live in the United States of America, every individual. That's our gift right there. Gift is our choice. You have the right to make your own choices, but you don't have the right to get my kids sick. So that would be that would be my argument as a parent nevermind Chongqing at journalists. To you don't have you don't have a right to do something that gets somebody in my family whether it's somebody who may have a pre existing condition nb more disposed to something or or my kid who I assume would be healthy and it just have to terrible leaks and be fine. You don't have that right. So if you're going to do this, then if you're GONNA go to a trump rally, the problem is these people are not going to go to a trump rally that's going to quarantine for two weeks it's just not going to happen. So. John King from CNN and I'm not sure if this just is one man's personal travail at the moment or if we should be worried about this because Michael Caputo. Is the leading spokesperson for the administration on the corona virus he's. Talking Mutation Sky Department of Health and Human Services he just posted this video roasted alive saying on on facebook. Where he said these Were things about. The shooting will begin quote unquote and when the President Wins because these left-wing forces that are hit squad sir preparing for armed insurrection right now, he talked about how his mental health has failed that he's afraid to be alone as apartment in Washington D. C. Shadows and the ceiling and shadows are so long he goes on and on line with us. Really Bizarre stuff and he's also been accused of cooking the books in terms of the coronavirus numbers to fit the presence agenda. But he's a powerful guy and I, mean he himself and Mrs Mental Health is in trouble I don't know if there's just one person that's in trouble or are. We should because he's still got the job as far as I know. So there I. Think a couple issues there in one is let's all the human for a minute and if Micheal Caputo is having mental health issues, we wish him the best and hope he gets the help you need. If he needs help and part of it may be getting away from the stress of his job, which is incredibly stressful. Right now he's also a warrior. He's a very close friend with Roger Stone. So he has a history of playing hardball. You're absolutely right Marjorie that he is trying to pressure Dr. FAO Dr Burks and the Centers for Disease Control to be more optimistic in their presentations into not say things like hunker down not say things like this is not behind us to not say things like it could. It could very well get worse than we expected actually to be more cases in the fall. That's what the scientists are saying They don't like when the CDC puts out a report that says of the new infections half of the people say they dined out in the last two weeks. Because they president is encouraging reopening, the president is accusing Democratic governors of keeping their states closed on purpose to hurt him politically So Michael Caputo is using his power to try to put a political muscle on these agencies to either shut up or to say things more favorable things that work more in the president's political favor That's your tax dollars at work. Again, I don't care if you're a Democrat or Republican or an independent are agnostic, your tax dollars should not be used in that way over scientific agencies I president has. Every right to talk about his agenda and to try to spin hyperbole long been the oxygen of politics. So That's not unique to donald trump to try to use your power, use your office, use your agencies to say Nice things about you. But to to tell Miss Truths to bury science that that's different, that's different and I hope people can make that distinction So on the one hand, these our tax dollars being used by somebody who says CDC's he didn't say CDC scientists or not. So their deep state, he said, they're guilty of sedition. That that's out there, and so if this is a mental health issue I, WanNa have grace for the human being if as a mental health issue, I, I do have grace for the human being on the other hand he's in serious position of authority. Critical moment in the pandemic, and so if he needs to be separated from that to get the help he needs, then somebody should do that. So, John. King. This is like one of the most aggravating conversations I've had ages and it's about to get worse. If you'd said to be a part of it. I'm glad you actually are part of if somebody's gotTa be if you'd said to two weeks ago. Is there any chance in the world that this dysfunctional Congress would go home for elections and not have passed some decent relief bill for small businesses and local governments and health care and individuals who are unemployed or underemployed said zero. as of a couple of days ago experts were saying they are going to go home, and then we hear I guess this morning Nancy Pelosi I don't know if this is for political effect or real effect says the house is going to stay in session until there's a Krono virus relief bill, but the parties are way far. Apart is it possible? They could actually leave Washington and not do something for the folks back home. Yes. Yes it's possible. And that sounds pathetic right Now, again, we through this conversation so we'll try not to ramble on this answer. You know the Democrats wanted a very big package. The Republicans want even smaller package than they did a couple of weeks ago and so you have a giant divide on price tag and then you have a giant divide over what should be in. It more employment help would be in either package state and local government. The Democrats want a lot of money the republic some Republicans say not not at all to help states deal with this and when you help states deal with this you know people think, Oh, you're sending money until you know Beacon Hill well, yes. But no in terms of what the? You know those are firefighters and teachers, police, officers, and janitors and people who are on the front lines bus drivers maybe people are on the front lines here if they're municipal employed or state employed they can't afford it anymore because tax revenues are down and so so it's not just see when you say state and local it's had a D. Kinda dehumanizes it and a lot of that money goes to very important things very important people but right now Jim I think you're going to have some political moves like that the speaker saying we'll keep the house in session will there be a magical moment and suddenly while we get a deal in part I. Think that comes down to two things. Number one did the moderate Democrats who gave Nancy Pelosi the big margin, right? The ones who flipped trump won trump wants seats is there enough pressure her to do something smaller and there are some of the more moderate members trying to craft a smaller package speakers trying to keep them from that from getting too much life because she wants a bigger one but did they create impetus do the vulnerable Republicans in the Senate and then does the president of the United States as we get closer to the election and his poll numbers are still bad to see say I need to try to do something. So there are a couple of there are. Several different power centers that might have political calculations to change things. But as of today one, thirty, five PM when thirty six PM in the East on September fifteenth their way too far apart and I think it is possible and they you might even say probable, they don't do anything. John King on the screen. It's on CNN right now, we see leaders from Israel the UAE. In Bahrain and the president there signing this peace deal what was the significance of this. This is actually a really big deal. I've covered this issue now for going on twenty five years I guess and look You know this is not the peace between Israel and the Palestinians right? It's. It's the Israel Palestinian conflict that has been with all of us for our entire lives and with others before us for a long time however getting Arab nations to normalize relations with Israel is a big deal. The United Arab remers went I hear Bahrain. As part of this deal today, they want second to smaller Gulf. States in the case of the U. A. This these are fine. This is financial economic interests. The Gulf states especially have had covert relations with Israel for years. Most of them for years have said, they're exhausted by the Palestinians The the president said they've been fighting for years. Israel has not been fighting with the Israel has not been fighting has never fought with Bahrain. Those countries do give financial and political support to the Palestinian cause, and this is Netanyahu's dream to get the rest of the Arab. World to say we're done we're exhausted. Over it, the Palestinians you know can't get to the peace talks get to the peace table anymore because of their own personal political corruption forget it. We're just GONNA cut deals with Israel. This is Netanyahu's dream. Now, this has been in the works for twenty plus years like I said, there've been there've been private dealings have been covert relations, but you have to give the the United States credit for this to get it to the finish line to get it published in to get it on paper it is a big deal for. The president for this president the United States an it's a big deal for the Middle East. The President says more will follow Oman is likely to fall pretty quickly. The president thinks Saudi Arabia. Will that would be a bigger deal I'm skeptical because the king is more conservative than the crown prince who actually run Saudi Arabia but there's some tension in the Saudi royal family but this is a significant deal if int we will see in the years ahead but you gotta give the President some credit here he deserves it and his team. And then we need to also answer questions if you know, what did he give to get in the sense that the UAE wants to buy sophisticated US weaponry the president said this morning he's to be supportive of that So what are what are the other pieces of the deal? What exactly does the language of the documents they signed? Say we need to see all that but look. I it's hard to argue with pieces a good thing, right so anything that advances the cause to get more of the Arab nations to set aside at least this rhetorical animosity toward Israel for the past fifty years is a good thing for the world in a good thing for the region we'll. We'll see where it takes us. But on this day, the president has every reason to celebrate. John. It's great to talk to you as always even though I wasn't misery for most of the conversation. We live in a we live in a tough time but. Cam Newton's WANNA know. He is. He is. Yes I'm there. John Thank you very much. John King joins US every week he's seen as chief national correspondent negative inside politics, but you can catch weekdays and Sunday Mornings at eight o'clock John King. Actually weekdays at noon. It's an Sunday mornings on a anyway thanks a lot John Coming up. We're opening up the lines and asking you in these as we say, these days troubled times are you ready to return to local art scene as we talk with John Boehner about it means biding by laws of restrictions say the movies keep down nine seven Gbh Boston public radio. Mike in Boston public radio. Jim. Brady and and we have very little time. So get your finger ready to do some punch and on your phone there if you're tuning in, we're talking to Gbh is arts editor jarred Boehner earlier about museum's reopening under new restrictions and movie theaters back in business we're taking your calls for the next handful of minutes asking if you're ready to answer the call of the great indoors to the restrictions that come with Ghana museums and movie theaters, feet, the purpose of what is normally more carefree experience or some escapism better than nothing or you're going to stick with Netflix's and online museum exhibits until the pandemic as past our number's eight, seven, seven, three, zero one. Eighty nine seventy by the way, this whole Margarita mentioned earlier in the show from morning consoles a national roughly two to one though the numbers are very low about a quarter of millennials are willing to do museums and movies. seventeen percent of boomers are willing to museums and Amir Eleven. percent are ready to do movies the notion of going to movie theater. Me Is just absolutely insane I mean absolutely insane a museum I might do if the exhibit was one that was wildly exciting. How about you? I'm not going to the movies I have eaten doors a couple of times. And there were like everyone was like fifteen feet apart really far apart. So it wasn't like a horrible thing but it was scary here today and it's been reported before this as well that Eating, indoors is. Very, often what people think led to they're getting coronavirus increases the risk was two times or something like that. So we want to know very quickly. Would you go to the movies? Would you go to a museum museums or up while they did open up in this state a lot of them in July, some of the bigger ones like worcester in the MFA in this month will take calls as quickly and as many as we can short period of time you're in Lynn Mike and your own Boston public radio, hi there. I. Thanks a lot for taking my call. Sure. I think before anything happens I think Boston and other cities and towns in Massachusetts need to declare themselves riot free zones, Biden's threatening us with not stopping riots. Until he was elected president I think is hateful and discussing the do that by the way I miss that. He said the riots can go on January. He said the rights won't stop until he was elected president. I think those are two totally different things. Is it not? I think he I think he what he said Mike and maybe you have a different source is the mind is that? He didn't condone any rise didn't condone any violence where did you get this information about? Where was it that the President Vice President said that? He said he said riots will stop the if trump is elected, president rights will continue. If he's elected, the rights won't stop. Our maybe you're right and wrong I'll. March your this is totally bastardising what Biden said. His suggestion is that that that? The President States is putting fuel on the fire of the trouble in America's cities and he's right well, and you unfortunately aren't helping Mike by mischaracterizes. Botanist Sunday. Be Really careful because. Is, Fox. News lies regularly in one of the things they've lied about quite regularly as all this craziness in New York City, and what is what is the combination New York City at the police being upset because they're reforms being being put forward? No Cho- Kohl's. transparency. About bad cops. And the cops are feeling that the cop unions I should say are fueling this and Fox's repeating it. We talked about this with Brian, staedtler stelter that. They're lying a basis and I think it'd be really careful about where you get your information from. If the vice president said that I certainly, not aware of it but what you're missing Mike Thank you. You're missing what he says he didn't say. He what Mike said in his own words that Biden's words were the riots won't stop. As. Long as trump is president, I don't. That's not saying what Mike said. That's saying what Biden said that essentially trump is exacerbating the rioting in the city's which I think is a fact. Honest. We're talking about the guy who decided he wanted to make us think that that's not our topic we talk about the president ought not right now feel free to call back tomorrow Mike and we can have the same conversation Cynthia in Wakefield you're next on Boston public radio. Hey, there. I'm great. How are you? Good well, I wasn't so good. A couple of minutes gone better now what's up? Aired on doing pretty well, I'm in Wakefield Rhode Island and we've got a little theater down here. That's been doing outdoor theatre all summer, and it's an improvised musical. So that'll by itself is fascinating and everybody wears masks the audiences nasty people are socially distanced in. Groups of people who come together can sit together but every group is separated from everybody else. It's great and as long as they keep doing it I'm gonNA keep being part of it. You know what they had over the weekend from where my kids had a concert doubt the Armas in and it was the same kind of thing everybody went in their cars and they sat behind the cars and they were socially distant and they had a I have no idea who was there but they had a concert there i. Drive in theaters, doing things outside or just doing the regular movies outside and everybody's socially distance. Either in their cars or tailgating behind their cars but far from which is great idea. Great. But that's again and again Cynthia thanks for the call that's really different as Cynthia knows from being indoor in a endorse the movie. and. I feel bad. I said the jarred before I'm not that concerned about the chains I assume they'll survive these small independent theaters and we have some fabulous ones here that have been here forever. Let's just hope they can survive these incredibly lean times but for the time being well, they're not asking people to come in most money way. John Mansfield. Hi. Oh Hi ruin thanks for taking my call. Sure. I just like to say that my son went to the movies two weeks ago, and we were the only two in the theater. We, we booked seats online and I thought there would be more people there but it was just the two of us and we felt perfectly safe and sat and watched the new blockbuster movie. What would you say? We saw Christopher Nolan film I figured Yeah Hey bit but John. When you book the tickets, you had no idea I mean if I knew was gonna be the only person in the theater I might go to you didn't know you were going to be the only three in the theater or two or whatever you were. So were you not anxious about their? I well, I. I'll tell you I booked. The first time I booked I looked at it was the smaller cinema win over the smallest thing. And I said no, no, no no, and then I booked a different time and it was the larger auditorium and I said, okay, well, that's a good chance that we should be spread out. In in fact, we didn't have to worry because really only do there. By the way worked out. Great. John Thanks, we've just gotten to more emails to so they went to the movie theater and the only people there. About how do you know that in advance can call the theater and say, can you just let me in and nobody else I mean I'd go if I knew it was the person in the theater. Syndication Jim of even if there are six other people you can spread out far enough to nobody's GonNa be close to you I mean maybe it was seeing the. Here's an option to go to the theater and. Is packed you can just leave. Well, you know there's another option I don't know if you're worth, it's called the couch. That's what that's the movie theater that I've been going since mid-march and actually I've seen some wonderful movies and shows and it's been pretty safe. Not to mention the fact that the refrigerators only about twenty five feet away, which is really good ratio from Clinton. What do you think Rachel original. Hey Larry I'm a longtime listener first-time caller I. Absolutely love you guys on my family and I. I'm just recently this past weekend went to the American heritage museum in Hudson, and it was absolutely awesome and everybody was able to stay nice and far away from each other. There was no like community touching doors or anything like that. I? Agree with you bill that like you know it's it's you I'm sorry I Yeah I I don't really want to be in a movie theater in. With even even with a few people in there, it's all that circulated air and and you know in in at least within in a museum, it's it's an open air kind of environment. You know there's more wiggle room and that concert that happened that at that drive in theater I've a few friends who actually went to that and they all decided to get out of their vehicles and start dancing, and then afterwards after a few drinks had gone to a house party with a with. Numerous other people no, I'm yeah. I'm not a big fan of like the driving concerts. I think the concept is really cool. I love the idea of it but the execution of it just people just totally missed the mark executions a good choice words. Rachel. Thank you for your call know the beauty of this is the conversation with jared just like she's talking about that museum in Hudson is it sounds like almost every museum are you have to be ticketed in advanced can't just go up and? Get tickets. They only let a certain number of people in each group certain number of people each time, and it seems like it's really well regulated. So I'm not dying in a movie theater and other poor choice of words. I do a museum thing in a second again, if I was interested in exhibit, would you? Well, you're doing indoor dining so you do a museum in a second, but it's not that hard. You see how many people are in there and if there's nobody in there. You can go in mean. Let me ask you but yeah. But when you get in there and there aren't that many people, you know what occasionally happens people come after you and what do you do then say sorry, gotTa leave between the appetizer course tell the person that sat you. You're you're not comfortable with that person being so close to you and you know what I did do that once lewd yeah. Well, wasn't that big of a deal. Okay. It's an from woburn which we have time. We do. Actually is wrong. Okay. Thank my apologies edson. Guys I. Wish that jared to on the phone because I want to get his opinion on schools in college because he said, he doesn't feel comfortable being a movie theater because he cannot be guaranteed that people are going to be wearing masks because they're allowed to eat for example no, it's the same thing with schools because you're going to have a bunch of students in a much smaller environment where the air can circulate. and. What have you less but they picked up? The same valid for college in his team? Boston College for example, number of students. That have tested positive. So you cannot have both it's got to be one of the doesn't matter. Closed Environment, everyone breathing the same air dr out you in a recent interview with actor, Matthew mcconaughey confirmed wartime but this fire has spread through the air touch. It's not any significant numbers for that. So it cannot be both we have to choose one or the other because it's only a matter of time and to see outbreaks. started it to seeing colleges so By the way. I'm really glad you brought up the BC situation. I had two doctors on last night who suggests that after the hundred for a positive cases there that the that they can't have it both ways at BBC. That essentially, they should go one hundred percent online. One of the doctors was a twenty five year veteran of the School of Public Health at Bu and he excoriated his own school for being a hybrid sang it was all about making money. It wasn't about the safety of the public health so I think you make a very good point and thank you for making by the way Jack Down, who is the spokesperson you know for time for? Boston College is going to join me tomorrow night on Greater Boston to talk about what's going on there and what BBC's responses. Reporting early this morning that case throughout my kids in Florida. Who've gone back to school also the high school things it's not you know it's brought this up Derbyshire. The sherborne thing and the Lincoln Sudbury or wherever it was their kids I. Mean I'm not defending their behavior, but they are kids kids are going to do that and that's probably why. Long distance learning makes more sense than not for making age making on the road. High it's just I. Know you're willing to go into a restaurant layer you why are you so worried about going into a movie theater formerly, you're confusing me with Marjorie I've eaten at ton of restaurants since March but every one of them is side I have I will not go inside a restaurant Marjorie has. So I am for one some actually consistent I'm ordinarily not I'm usually great but I'm not hypocritical on indoor stuff I just won't do it how about a Martyr, you're a good example you won't go megan questions to go to you won't go inside of theatre, but you go inside a a restaurant. I must admit I, I was never that you haven't been big in the movies for quite some time I wait until they come on. TV So. I I do like to go out to restaurants and. Friday night Saturday night something like that. So when I've gone and like I said if I've gone there full outside and they do fill up outside so quickly if they asked me if I want to eat insiders nobody in there except the you know the waiter and the way people then I feel okay but I get nervous. If somebody's sitting next to me Megan. Thank you near me so much for the call. Yeah I do too. You know this is GonNa be a long haul you know that it's going to be a long haul it's gonna be very long haul. It's it's it's very sad state of affairs and you know what you over and over again, which is really it did not have to be like this. We didn't have to have such a high death toll here we didn't have such a disastrous number of people sick and we didn't have to do this but we've watched it obviously and that's where we're at the time for one. Clock says two minutes ago okay okay. So anyway, thank you very much for tuning into another edition of Boston public. Radio tomorrow we're GONNA have a medical ethicist with us art caplan. Can Connecticut senator. Chris Murphy he's written a great new book and talk about that, and we're also going to be joined by Michelle Woo who's just announced her candidacy for mayor of the city of Boston. Thank our crew Chelsea Murs. Matthews you in Aden Conley. Our engineer is John The clock Parker, our off site and the Mile Smith and David Goldstein was on TV tonight. Jim. Well, a couple of things to people joining the WHO commented on raft the Commission this study that was commissioned by Ralph. Ganz, about racial disparities in the Criminal Justice System Rachel Rollins da for Suffolk County and nigger former federal, court judge, and then the president of Valerie Montgomery racism. President of Morehouse. School of Medicine. She co-wrote this fabulous piece and the new. York Times entitled we need to recruit more black Americans in vaccine trials. Obviously, her school is a has a a as one of the medical schools predominantly black students. She's got a great take on the vaccine trials on how and why some important to have more African American doctors, particularly African American male doctors of which there are very few. Some really excited to be talking to her. That's tonight's show looks like. Okay Tim Thank you very much. You're welcome. I'm Martin Regan. Make sure you don't mention my middle name again I am. I neglected to say many people have emailed to the unfortunately many people tweeted. They think it catches your. La. In feed and they think, I'm GONNA feed you know why I'm so. That's why they're thinking. that. No. I know. But they are any case I am Jim Bradley Jay Spencer Brother Display, would. says. And please have a great afternoon and thanks for listening.

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