13 Episode results for "Matthew Alexander"

12: Assault on Al-Qaeda, Part 2

Covert

48:25 min | 1 year ago

12: Assault on Al-Qaeda, Part 2

"Summer two thousand six the elite fighting outfit Task Force Black were on the trail of Iraq's deadliest terrorist Abu Bumu Saab all Zerkalo Zarko the number one priority for a man driven to unleash unspeakable carnage on the people of Iraq and coalition military forces Sarkar. We personified the dark sadistic and medieval vision of the future future of headings suicide bombings and indiscriminate killings but with the help of interrogators and military leadership task force black back finally brings down the death is our cow as we suspected would it was a devastating world organization welcome to covert show show about the shadowy world of international espionage top secret military operations Jamie Rennell take you inside history's greatest special operations Sion's missions to learn about the brave soldiers and operatives who risked their lives terminate the world's most wanted eliminate terrorist threats and protect countless countless innocent lives. This is the true story of Task Force Black Mackillop one of Iraq's most vicious terrorist leaders Abu Musab also also collie. This is the assault on al-Qaeda par to the farmhouse raid that led to the capture of five high ranking. Al Qaeda officers was born out of months of intelligence stemming from an the operation brought about by a general who arrived in Iraq almost three years prior. Stanley McChrystal took a radical new approach for hunting down Al-Zour Collie and destroying destroying a Q. I or Al Qaeda in Iraq. Here's former assistant secretary of defense. Tom O'CONNELL Stan McChrystal unique guy. years of of experience with our special operations forces at all levels former arrange commander he and bill mcraven were to of the early special operations leaders John Mulholland another that really took their operational experience and applied it to the battlefield sorta. I don't WanNa say said forget Washington but we know what to do here and by God we're going to do it and you get personalities that are that strong that experience that well respected the force falls in and their operational experience starts to start the show and it's just the type of guy you want in that position. McChrystal is the newly appointed commander of the Joint Special Operations Command or J. sock formed in the late nineteen eighties to coordinate the work of America's elite troops J. sock controls the best of the best from across the different branches of the United States military. These are these so-called special missions units units navy seal team six Army Delta Force and the Air Force Twenty Fourth Special Tactics squadron active in every corner of the world often on highly classified missions. The soldiers of J. sock are experts in precise targeted strikes against hard to reach enemies. Mark Urban is the author of two thousand eleven task force black. The explosive true story of the special secret forces war in Iraq is a very secret organization and it was tasked with finding the most sensitive types of mission against US enemies obviously in the context post nine eleven terrorist enemies as counter terrorism at the start of the Iraq War J. Socks mission had been to find and arrest the leaders of the old Iraqi regime including President Saddam Hussein sane once this mission was accomplished. A power vacuum was created and also Cowie was ready and waiting to step in in decapitated. See what some call the bath is to nationalise dealership. They probably assisted the growth of Al Khadra in Iraq because by taking away the leadership figures shakes that former the generals the key people who keep off this they live questionable of angry young militants Sunnis with nowhere to go and those people gravitated towards Cardo so McChrystal made a strategic decision to abandon the hunt for ex members of the old Saddam regime instead he focused almost all of his resources on just just one man Abu Saab all's or Kali Matthew Alexander former interrogator in Iraq and author of how to break a terrorist. I when I arrived my feeling was how can I contribute. How can I help in this. the violence and essentially in our commander came in and gave a big speech right after we got there and the point of the speech was the only way to win the Iraq war more to stop the violence between Sunni Shia is to find an killer capture of Hummus levels are Kelly to get to Oliver Cowie himself. McChrystal astill began building a complete picture of his terror network. He set up a large command center at an old Iraqi airbase in the town of ballade north of Baghdad and invited all of America's different spy agencies to set up camp there again former assistant secretary of defense. Tom O'CONNELL was a huge huge room. Saddam did a great job and building A TAILOR-MADE OP Center for those high value target activities in Iraq back. If you walked into their joint operations center you would be shocked at one the the focus on the the targets these are the top ten here the entire collection tasks this is how we're moving against them and as information brakes on each one you see the various various forces and the inner agency and the Allies and in some cases the Iraqis move against it and it's it's an unfolding story every day. It's constantly updated. It never blinks. It never sleeps and you put that much talent together. Give them the authorities days. They're going to be successful. The idea was that every piece of information however insignificant would be brought there and fed into a massive database if if McChrystal and his men learned everything they can about why they may be able to quickly find its weakest points and strike former FBI CIA a senior official Philip Mudd when we started working with special forces and I I remember General McChrystal. WHO's a real hero in this war the guy's a legend Terry not only a legendary operated take the way he constructed joint commands but I remember him coming into headquarters and saying you know we need some of your people and as any bureaucrat? Will you sit back there and say all right is in dog in the hunt. What are we trying to do here. 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Dot Com slash covert McChrystal established a special detention facility next door to his command center enter were interviews of suspected al-Qaeda members would be conducted keeping all of the Intel gathered central to one location former interrogator in Iraq Iraq Matthew Alexander the Interrogation Unit you essentially composed of where we kept the prisoners in also our Turkish Asian rooms in our analysis room in our desks which we called the gator pit part of our facility was an old Saddam era aircraft hangar and then the rest of it was just kind of make shift built additions to a warehouse essentially where you would just take plywood in throw it would up in Crete compartments in rooms but it was really essentially like a very quickly built haphazard facility where sure where it was just kind of all thrown together last minute when it felt like well our task force had its own detention facility because of our pace which essentially Ashley was go out capture senior leaders of al Qaeda get information out of them through interrogation in quickly turn around and go back out in catch new leaders this and do that in a manner in which always going up the chain of command towards Kali using this massive amount of up-to-date intelligence McChrystal unleashed the most most dangerous weapon in J. socks Arsenal the coalition forces special mission units of elite frontline soldiers these units would work in an entirely tiredly new way historically they ran only one or two major operations per year now they would conduct multiple raids on a daily basis Fran Townsend former White House counterterrorism adviser we found over the years in the war was that you need there needs to be a continuous loop right right of information and so the operators need to understand from the intelligence community what the capability is and the intelligence community needs to understand what the operators are seen being on the ground and so they can task each other right and they can and you get better and more refined th you know. I can remember visiting Iraq and watching them. They didn't go out once on a night. They went out multiple times. oftentimes the intelligence operators would go with the special forces they would do they would get what's called pocket litter there were hard drives a piece of paper out of people's pockets they come back they bring it to analyst back on the base who from the CIA who would go through that information that that would lead to another targeting package and the operated the special forces would go out again. That's sort of continuous feed. Continuous loop is what made them incredibly effective well. It all starts by piling in the back of a Stryker vehicle in sitting in a very cramped space. That's very hot in very dark and then you're you're going through the streets you know and there's all types of hazards roadside bombs and snipers in by the time you get to the target usually already drenched in sweat in your adrenaline going and then the team conducts a raid of the location in go out they go in in the the capture your intended target and then they immediately call you say you're jumping out of the vehicle. You're running down. The street won't get when it gets really exciting is when you have more than one house. oftentimes the these terrorists they would run out of one house jump a wall and into another house and then you'd have to wait a second house in sometimes it would ended up with a third or fourth house and then there's only two interrogators so you could end up with as many as ten or fifteen captured personnel and the I need have ten or fifteen minutes between two interrogators to try and figure out who were the bad guys and back to the base. The critical factor is speed every time a militant militant is captured the members of Q. I around that individual will try to cover their tracks by reorganizing the entire network. It's a cat and mouse game. The terrorists wrists constantly changed their routines abandoned safehouses and recruit new men to replace those that have been lost or captured but if McChrystal's people can work worked faster than their enemy they will destroy a Q. I before it can regenerate what I saw general McChrystal do as A. I'm not a field opera but I'm a career analyst. That's what I saw him. Do was not just evolutionary was revolutionary. You think about the history of warfare you know tanks artillery aircraft you think about the history of intelligence strategic work that identifies the Soviet nuclear arsenal for example now. Let's fast forward to what we've been doing. The past decade plus you take technical technical information. Things like stuff you oughta captured cell phone or captured hard-drive. You take detainee. Operation Detainees are saying about the network. They just came from you. Take pieces of paper you might capturing raid last night and you put them in a big hopper and say our software or nationalist. Our people have to be good enough so so that when the with within the the the timeframe of ours they can put together a picture of what that network looks like for example foreign fighters across Iraq doc. What is all this information. Tell us about money about suicide bombers about leadership and not only put that picture together do it well enough so that an operator can conduct a raid raid within twenty four hours contrast were that where we were in terms of intelligence and military operations even fifteen years ago and where we are today all that coming together so that you're not only constructing a picture of a foreign fighter network. You're not only operating on that picture within twenty four hours. You're doing it for years on end with people from every Consi in town incredible in a way the most important Tortilla that general McChrystal Jason brought this whole oh fake was that if you hit an organization false enough accurately enough and repeatedly enough you you could actually cause them to collapse now in other conflicts around the world various counter-terrorist feels. It tried this but they never really found that. It worked the old idea. What if you killed somebody. We drank them screaming from that home. In the middle of the night he would simply create many more people who wanted revenge had held true and and this idea that you could actually take down a whole terrorist militant organization had never been material that never been made real actually made to work that. McChrystal's attitude was yes. I know if we go into someone's home in the middle of the night will create a business that we want to take down so fall elst that when that angry brother will son whatever it is tries to report to take part in the Jihad. There's no one to talk to because all of his father or brothers friends they have also been lifted in the same forty hour period now. This was a critical to what they wanted to do. It involved Mount Mount multiple raids every night. Sometimes a particular task force would do what they call bounce homes they go from one target they would find intelligence there they go on to another target and another another one and they could round up a whole group of people half dozen people say and petit commits and sell in one night and little by little that was going to have an effect. Jay sock had developed into a well oiled machine every single night for special task forces spread out through Iraq doc and performed up to a dozen raids at one time each group was assigned to take down targets in a different part of US occupied territories to the north is task force read formed from the army's seventy fifth Rangers Brigade to the West Task Force blue made up of US Navy seals the center of Iraq was the responsibility of task force green staffed by the US Army's most elite unit Delta Force and finally these soldiers were joined by the SAS ask operating under the codename feeling among many of the American intelligence operators that the SAS and the other British special forces also is the Special Boat Service and the Special Reconnaissance Regiment had skills that were quite unusual and quite different to the type of skills that Delta force or the seals at the American training and operational activity at all been based around if you like action man leaping out of helicopters boarding ships this kind of stuff assault rolls whereas the British special forces because of their long involvement not just in Northern Ireland but in places like the Balkans where they've been involved in the hunt for war criminals they had skills to do with the patient nurturing uh of targets and groups have targets now that involves surveillance involved creativity stealth about how for example could you get a remote surveillance camera hammer onto a balcony overlooking at target. You might be interested in they came up with all sorts of things they drove around in Baghdad taxis they disguise themselves and the American intelligence people saw some of these during the early years in in Baghdad and they liked it. They actually there's something we can learn from these people because because they could better that counseling themselves they also got Iraqi colleagues that they could use some of those cover tasks but right the way through the Americans did value the fact act that the British could add another very highly trained very professional special operations task force to their lay down because they were in Baghdad. They could go after ah the same very very high. Importance targets McChrystal and his team worked through their targets night after night. The supply lines of foreign fighters were being being intercepted. Bombmakers were taken out of action mountains of intelligence captured and analyzed despite two years of taking all Zerkalo as network apart the ultimate objective the man himself still eluded them were under tremendous amount of pressure to deliver results quickly every day we were reminded of how important it was to find an killer taps rebel muscles are Kylie because he was the key to winning the war and that pressure was reinforced from a variety of leaders continuously on US support for covert comes from manscaping who who is number one in men's below the belt grooming manscaping offers precision engineered tools for your family jewels okay so here's the TMI portion of the recording and I no longer rocky nut fro anymore so I have to take care of some things down there and it's a delicate operation and let me tell you razors and testicles tickles don't generally go together and there until now hasn't really been anything on the market that can take care of things down there safely well. 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Thank you so go ahead and get twenty percents off go to manscaping dot com use the code owed covert the turning point was the farmhouse raid in the moments after operatives to control of the Farmhouse Farmhouse Task Force black swept the building looking for any clues to ulcer cowboys whereabouts along with the hostages the task force provided McChrystal's J. Socks Special Operations Command with the computers and phones they found on the premises the rate became known as larch wood four they sweep everything they think might the aerobics mobile phones computers everything else and they take it away as a result of launch with four and subsequent operations consumer generated a huge amount of actionable intelligence came into Jason's hands in the House that Ah fool so all to get they had a computer when Ajay sock analysts started to probe one of the captured computers he discovered something extraordinary raw footage of ulcer collie himself from his recent propaganda video the footage shows him in a desert area firing weapons and urging his his supporters to show no mercy against their so called enemies he Iraq's Shia community and the US forces this video proves to be vital because it shows Jay sock what else collie looks like currently the task force swab the laptop and send the material evidence for DNA analysis through traces of DNA that were found late in the US Senate was backed up and sent back to the US for analysis they would conclude. It was his laptop on the laptop. They found around the video of him. Performing in the desert they found sorts of other things of course information about operations of his sells strategy documents if they were absolutely sure that they had got much closer to the person they wanted the analysts realized that Al-Zour does your car we must have left the house just hours before the SAS arrived. It wasn't until we discovered the video footage of him. from one of our rates that we actually started to get excited that we're close because the house where we picked up that video footage one of the teams told us or are we at least believed from what he told us that that had been in that house probably within the last forty eight hours before we rated it and that's when we we finally had the confidence to think that we're we're trail. The assault team from J. Sock has secured a major breakthrough from my position in the White House. I I remember it building over time. I don't remember there being single. Aha moment where you said now I know we're going to get him. It was the momentum had shifted the raids raids of his network were getting faster and closer to him and so you had the sense we're going to get there you had you had an increase in confidence that we were getting closer that we're putting the squeeze on him and that the military was ultimately going to be successful something else that stood out to the investigators after further reviewing the videos videos made by als or Kali they discovered outtakes. We analyzed it and we we find this raw video our colleagues in the one where he's out in the desert firing in the gun jams and he doesn't know how to declare it. Many of our colleagues followers know him to be a fearsome warrior but the video clearly shows him to be an overweight unimpressive oppressive figure of a man and appears completely unable to control the recoil of his machine gun initially he appears not to know how to fire more than one shot at a time and immediately immediately after he figures out how to switch it to fully automatic mode his weapon jams and the self styled holy warrior can't get it going again. He has to ask a friend. The unblock the stoppage the video that we saw that al-Qaeda released didn't have all the Kooks in it you know it only showed is probably being a strong on fighter that that whole image of infants ability but the reality is on the raw footage he didn't even know how to clear weapon and so the professors told a very different picture of who he was he was far from the seasoned fighter he had led people to believe he was. The coalition released the full. We'll unedited video to the media. Meanwhile deep inside the Task Force's secret detention center Jay socks interrogators gators got to work on the five men they captured from the Farmhouse Matthew Alexander a senior military interrogator who witnessed and conducted many of these. He's interviews firsthand. The men that we brought in we called the group of five and we knew that they were five important members al Qaeda but we didn't know what their roles were. Initially you know they claimed to be just a taxi driver. A guy who was there to videotape a wedding and they had this very unbelievable story that they're there to attend a wedding. Even though there was no bride or groom there were suicide bombers in the house but essentially we went to interrogate these five separately and little oh by little we will get information from one of them and then we'll take that and turn around and use it against the other for one member of the group the senior ache you is operatives known as Abu Hater refused to say anything other hyder initially claimed that he was just a videographer that he was there to film the wedding and he was probably one of the detainees gave the least amount of information initially he was interrogated for about twenty days during that time he just maintained this story that he was just there to videotape a wedding. Even though it was completely unbelievable for weeks rotating teams of interrogators try psychological pressure please for Cooperation Asian subtle threats despite their efforts he would not talk and officials had to make a decision they arranged to have him sent to Iraq's main detention. Shen facility Abu Ghraib prison in the Saddam Hussein era Abu Ghraib prison was one of the world's most notorious with torture weekly the executions and vile living conditions as many as fifty thousand men and women were crammed into cells there at one time after the regime's collapse the complex was deserted and quickly refitted as a US prison with accompanying medical center however even under US military control the prison soon descends ends once again into a place where prisoners were systematically and illegally abused. Matthew Alexander wanted to avoid these men reaching Abu Ghraib. He believed he could get the information he needed from. Abu Haider using the traditional interrogation techniques so after the first few weeks of interrogation when when he wasn't providing any information the the senior analyst on our on our team decided to transfer him decision was made to get rid of him that he would never talk and so we sent him to another prison where he would just disappear into the anonymous crowd and I decided that I would go in and interrogate they gave him one last time before he left and I didn't really have permission to do that but I felt that he was or could provide very important information towards findings or Kali and so about six hours before he was transferred he was to get on a helicopter. I went in and brought him into interrogation. Asian Room and began a conversation and that conversation started with nothing about al Qaeda nothing about terrorism. It started with a friendly conversation about he was What was his life story on. How did he come to be sitting in a chair opposite me and getting to know each other and we shared stories about yeah. are are both of us have appreciation for Ultimate Fighting Championship we talked about wrestling. We talked about soccer. We talked about the politics of the Middle East and we talked about a lot of things just so I can kind of understand who he was and what I understood stood and got to know about him that I five and a half hours is that he was a grand diga West. This is a man who really held himself in high esteem every time. I said I did something he would say. He did that plus one better you know he's that type of person who always had to be the smartest most capable person the room in once. I understood that about him in that was his personality type than I knew exactly what type of technique to use against him and that was a technique called pride go up which is where I would constantly strike a stroke his ego constantly make him believe in this fallacy that said that he was a very important man that he could affect the future of Iraq and then in the last fifteen minutes what I did was essentially offer him a deal offered him the chance to work with US instead of Al Qaeda and a secret program that didn't exist in which he could be a person who could influence the future of Iraq Alexander visited Abu Haider in his cell at night regularly and coaxed more and more information out of him about als are cowboys whereabouts all on the pretext of proving his worth for the non existent secret program. What I asked him was to prove his trust that we did have a relationship in which I could trust him he could trust me and I told him. If I was going to trust him that he would have to give me the name of a terrorist who I was thinking about and that he knew the name and I knew the name but but I wanted him to say it and the reality is I didn't. I didn't have any name in mind. It was all bluff but he thought about it for a while. It looked me up and down. They said the name you're looking for is a boot Abu Ayoub al-Massari in at the time was the number two man al Qaeda right below circle and so I knew immediately he knows other you've Mostra for certain he knows Sikali and so as soon as he said that he knew Eupol mastery I immediately started to think who else does he know Collie because even master himself itself you know he was kind of the ghost of al-Qaeda the guy that nobody would ever admit to meeting nobody had ever seen and here's the guy sitting in front of me was the first person we ever had to admit to meeting almost three so. I knew he was extremely important. In a new he had to know other people in the inner circles of Al Qaeda and a few weeks later I went to meet with him one night in his cell and he said I said you're so close to getting this program. All we need. Is that one last piece of information. That'll that'll convince my bosses and he said I'll give it to the interrogators tomorrow and the next day he came in and he told the interrogators that every month of we would meet with his spiritual adviser. Who was our detainees best friend. Hey folks real quick. I want to talk talk about one of our sponsors this week. vistaprint one of the things that people don't realize about acting and voice overs and podcasting is that just like any other business. It's all about the people that you know and it's the connections that you make and you really never know what those connections are. GonNa come from so it's really important to be able to have something on you so that you can handle somebody just in case you make that one connection. 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We knew we had identified individuals in various cells that were part of the pieces of putting these bombs together the other. We knew that Zarqa we had a spiritual adviser. We knew that he was going to visit him and so as you got each of those little elements you understood but it was absolutely the inevitable that we'd be successful is just a matter of being patient because eventually he would we had enough intelligence and enough of a network that eventually he was going to make a mistake and give us an opportunity and that's exactly what happened using this information. J. sock swiftly traced the spiritual adviser and began following him day and night using high-tech systems uh-huh like Predator drones as well as old fashioned undercover operatives. They created what McChrystal called the unblinking eye. Their target was never out of sight. Abu Haider tells Alexander that if they wanNA find all Zerkalo they need to look for one particular sign so our detainee a hater told us that his best friend was all Rochman any told us where to find out Rochman any told us that we would know when I'll rochman was going to visits our colleague because he would get into a blue car so we went and found Brockman at a mosque in Baghdad to the analysts dismay. Every times are Cowie's. His spiritual adviser drove around the city. It would be in a white car. We followed him from his mosque twenty four hours a day and eventually he did got in a blue car and we lost him in Baghdad traffic and so all that work you know everything that had gone in to try to find some in that moment was lost and we were devastated. We'd put all this effort into it and because we lost a car in traffic we'd lost their chances colleen uh but lucky for us this this adviser. He went back to the same mosque. I mean that's where he teaches. That's where he he lives until he picked him up again and followed him again and I believe a couple weeks later he went and got in that same blue car again and then we fall this man got into his car and headed out of town so the time came they decided that they'd assemble the resources to see where he was going and they use. Predator other methods to fully he's call by now. Pictures from the drone were being fed live to Jason Sox command center. Everyone including General McChrystal himself watched in silence as Roman drives into a large compound and gets out of the car. Uh to the task force's surprise Abu Musab Al-Zour Cali the man responsible for killing so many innocent men women and children walked into the car to greet him time is precious and critical discussion was held in the command center. Is it worth trying to capture all Zerkalo alive in broad daylight. Is it better to wait until nightfall and take him when he's asleep. If they strike they risk a heavy firefight and numerous casualties worse. Al-Zour cow is a master the last minute escape if they wait he could easily slip through the net again. This could be their one and only chance to finish the job. Matthew View looks on totally unaware of what decision the commanding officers would take to take out Al-Zour Cowie McChrystal believes. There's no time to lose he. He can't even wait twenty minutes for the Assault Force to arrive by helicopter he ops for another plan designed to take all cowie completely by surprise. General Stanley McChrystal's decision is that nothing can be left to chance he calls up to sixteen fighters patrolling nearby once the blue car arrived at the house. helicopters took off immediately to go to that House and captures Cali and it was about twenty minutes away and there was a period time in which we were just waiting. I was watching it live on video. in the car had arrived at the house. We'd seen you know all Rochman go inside and we were just waiting and we're expecting to watch the helicopters land in the rate which we typically would watch and instead after about maybe a five minute minute wait the house just exploded and it turns out that the committee had just decided to order the bombing house to ensure that circle he didn't escape again in you know so then maybe ten or fifteen minutes after that the helicopters landed still alive on a stretcher being carried away and and that's when one of the special operations soldiers ran up and stopped these two Iraqis carrying on the stretcher and I looked at him and tried to roll off the stretcher and the soldier grabbed him in conway died. It was sort of a sweet justice office if you will that. SARCOMAS last image was a US soldier grabbing him the day following the bombing the coalition announces to the world that they have their man at last and released photos of his dead body as a grim confirmation. The following is an excerpt group from former secretary of defense. Donald Rumsfeld's two thousand six NATO speech last evening. US forces in Iraq in a town called Baka killed Abu Masada is czar calway the leading terrorists in Iraq and one of the three senior al-Qaeda leaders worldwide there are going to be people who are determined to kill innocent men women children and and they'll others will come along but in terms of someone who has gotten up that high and and then that effective killing Lillard literally thousands of Iraqis were killed bill by this man the death of is our car we while enormously important I will not mean the end of all violence in that country and one ought. I'm not to take it as such but let there be no doubt his the the fact that he is dead. is a significant victory in the battle against terrorism in that country and I would say worldwide because he had interests well outside of Iraq. He was an integral part of the global war on terror. It's a devastating blow to al Qaeda in Iraq. The man who was thought to be invincible was dead. You know it's interesting. I don't from my time in the White House. I remember hearing the the the moment win. Saddam Hussein was killed. I remember coming into to the White House in hearing sarcophagi had been killed but it's not there's no relish in that right because the minute one of these leaders killed or taken out on the battlefield battlefield. You're moving on because there's going to be somebody to replace them. In so I frankly I can remember hearing Sarkhouh was killed knowing that that gave us a window of opportunity thirty while they were regrouping to continue to target them in further degrade their capability clearly their work was not over with the intelligence that was collected from the smoldering remains remains of Ulcer Cowie's compound another series of raids was launched and started to fall like a stack of Dominos. I think the truth is that findings was an absolute imperative he in many propaganda statements had summed his nose he he basically made the case that his ability to wage his kind of G. had without being captured or killed was a sign of his power and of the weakness the US on the Iraqi government that it was trying to set up so killing him on doubtedly had an impact there was a lot of expectation from from the rate of material was recovered it allow further inroads there were dozens of rates in the weeks that followed to be made into the kite strong structure and we can see eh that little by little through two thousand six through to the early party number seven they did successfully take them down to his car is our Co.. If you like was evidence of a bigger strategy that was really getting seriously affected by that point and by the summer of two thousand and seven uh-huh cadre in Iraq had largely been smashed. The death is our cow as we suspected would it was a devastating blow to the organization there was you know a good deal of chaos inside the organization and what you do is you know when you're targeting. You're also collecting intelligence on the network and so with that allows you to do as the minute he's dead their former vulnerable the the the people around him than they realize and so you do a series of raids that is devastating reading and they never really came back from from his death and it turned the tide of the war and the momentum to the side of the coalition in a way. I I suppose should have been expected but you can never be confident. You had that moment. You know I mean obviously it's good news. It's a victory on. He clearly had some operational talent had some leadership talent had the trust of bin Laden. had a larger than life figure so you can't say it's a bad thing to take him in his and his minions out. Was it a blow to al Qaeda and Iraq I think so they changed the landscape escape immediately now and there are those in even in the policy community in the United States and in the media that said it really made no difference personally I think it did better to dump them off than have him still operating on the battlefield and he had killed along America's interrogator. Matthew Alexander offers a different in perspective though I do think there was an element of justice although I think justice is best served in court but in an environment like this. We're doing counterinsurgency. We're still in a combat zone. You know a killer. Capture is the justice that you're trying trying to get from the perspective of a soldier who's hunting a terrorist in in a combat zone and do I lament over the death is our Collie in no way yeah. This was a guy who had murdered thousands of people in fact he murdered many more people than Osama bin Laden ever. Did you say Cali could be responsible for upwards almost one hundred thousand deaths by starting the civil war in Iraq and so. I don't think the world's GonNa Miss Him. I can't really the say do I agree with this or not agree with to bomb the house if it was me I'd like to say that I would have waited in raid the house so we could avoid civilian casualties but I can't blame the commander either for bombing the house because we had escaped before and you can make the argument that killings colleagues saved thousands sense of lives. I the lives at cost but there's no way really to justify this regardless. al-zirkli led the Jihadist insurgency into Iraq. When he was killed it was hoped that his campaign of terror would collapse tragically in death? Al-Zour colley left a legacy of more death and bloodshed by two thousand thirteen terrorist operation he helped grow in Iraq had morphed into the terror group. We know today as Isis and by two thousand fourteen the group had full control of the Iraqi city of collusion thankfully by early two thousand thousand Nineteen Isis influence over the region was diminishing. The fight against terrorism still continues. That's all for covert. Susan to we will be back for season three special. Thanks to the folks at audio boom and world media rights and all the sponsors that help make this podcast possible title. I want to take a second. Thank all of you for listening if you have time and feel so inclined swing on over to Instagram at covert podcast there's all kinds ends of additional content and if you want you can say hi. I'd love to talk to you. Covert is an audio boom in world meteorites co production hosted by me Jaime Renou. It's produced by audio booms. Ben Hasley Rachel Jacobs Casey Georgie and Karen Bevan and by Pascal Hughes for World Meteorites we had additional production action help from world media rights by Gerald's Bangla David mcnabb's the series creative director and executive producers for audio boom are Brendan Regan and Stewart last asked if you haven't already don't forget to follow us on spotify or subscribe on Apple Podcasts stitcher wherever you find your favorite shows and if you've got some time it gives us a review

General Stanley McChrystal Iraq Iraq United States al-Qaeda J. Sock Baghdad Matthew Alexander Al-Zour cowie Saddam Hussein assault Kali Matthew Alexander Jay sock Zerkalo Abu Musab commander Jason Sox Tom O'CONNELL Stan McChrystal
11: Assault on Al-Qaeda, Part 1

Covert

33:39 min | 1 year ago

11: Assault on Al-Qaeda, Part 1

"June two thousand six in the dead of night a Chinook helicopter lifted off from a secluded desert airbase in Iraq inside elite troops from Britain's Special Air Service the SAS were sitting side by side. They were checking their weapons ammunition night vision goggles and radio equipment these fighters were part of a secret of Unit code-named Task Force black they we're traveling towards a remote farmhouse on the outskirts of Baghdad inside was their target Abu Musab Al's Hikari the mastermind into behind countless bombings kidnappings and beheadings as the leader of Al Qaeda in Iraq as the operation approached the farmhouse to smaller helicopters flanked them they were accompanied by a couple of smaller headquarters lynxes with snipers in them that would orbit over the target and then last in the order if you like this little fly on Mada were a couple of big helicopters with the force that would be used to put what they call a calm around the Alpha the corden being the belt of security so that if anybody jumped out the window made a run for it S- quarters as they call them they edit eh either the people in the helicopters the orbiting snipers or the call would take care of those people the fighters landed stealthily onto the Desert Floor Floor and began closing in on the property to scouts climbed over a small stonewall and crawled towards the farmhouse looking for signs of life and and possible entrance points pinning their backs against the uneven concrete. They peered through a crack in the wall to catch a glimpse inside inside the building walls if you like a protection detail of people for this particular Amir that's at the SAS targeted there were at least two possibly three wearing wearing suicide vests they will hall a dozen sold rifles. There were dozens of hand grenades. These people are heavily armed. They must be protecting being something or someone important but could it be. Abu Musab also Cari finally after years of brutal anarchy in the war-torn country. Could this be his end. Welcome to covert show about the shadowy world of international espionage top secret military operations rations. The entire country was essentially embroiled in a civil war. There is a beheadings every day. They're suicide bombings. There is retaliatory acts of terrorism going on between the city and she answer every day you would wake up and read about murders decapitations types. I'm Jamie Rennell and I'm going to take you inside history's greatest special operations missions to learn about the brave soldiers and operatives who risked their lives to terminate the world's most wanted eliminate terrorist threats and protect countless innocent law. Abu Mussa Balza Cari had been thought to be responsible for years long bloody war in Iraq. Was this evil I think arguably over over the last several years no single person on this planet has had the blood of more innocent men women and children on his hands then Sarkar why and how and why did our colleagues terror begin but as a cow is doing in Iraq is trying to destroy completely the state in order to to rebuild it and from the ashes of this date we will rebuild the new state and this new states will be sort of carbon. Call me of the Caliphate. This is the true story of Task Force Black and the killing of one of Iraq's most vicious terrorist leaders Abu Abu Musab all's Hikari this is assault on al-Qaeda part one the rest of the fighters from task force black joined the scouts at the perimeter wall of the rustic farm building but as they drew near something surprised them mark urban even the author of two thousand eleven's task force black the explosive true story of the special secret forces war in Iraq as the SAS men from B squadron of twenty two s started to move towards the AL for the target. They realized it was not going to be a typical sort of mission. They they thought they could hear sounds inside the building. They approached the building very gingerly and a few of the men walked around a parked car that was under a car park and to to that surprise and satisfaction found that there was a door just wipe behind the call. If all's are Cowie one of the world's most wanted aged terrorists was inside. Why would he leave the door wide open. Would it be so easy to get inside. The unit opted to enter the compound through through the door only to find it was a trap almost as soon as they went through the door. They were hit by a hell of bullets the people inside clearly the news somebody who was coming they were armed and they will wait so they'd. Father's initial volley of bullets hit a couple of the SAS guys the SAS go always withdrew. Obviously they had casualties to treat so they withdrew to a safe distance. The airwaves were alive at moment with reports that there was resistance instance inside the building under they needed to take the appropriate action immediate action deal without resistance immediately for the commander on the spot a number of very difficult questions some of these incidents where heavy resistance was encountered they simply pulled back and dropped a bomb on the building and killed everybody inside for many different raisins the SAS on the ground decided not to do they wanted this person alive for intelligence purposes the longer they withdrew from the action the more opportunity to terrorists. I would have to destroy data that could lead the coalition forces to other Al Qaeda compounds the team again advanced towards the open door. They felt it was is worth trying to fight their way and that's what we did. They went into the building. They started to engage people in the dauntless in the rooms as they went into the building trying to clear Rimbaud task force black ran through the building taking out each al Qaeda operative in their path while al Qaeda fighters sprayed the night air with AK forty eighty seven fire but the al Qaeda cell were no match for the methodical and controlled fighting style of task force black suffered many casualties now. The downstairs was secured but the upstairs still needed to be investigated as one of the SAS fighters entered the stairwell of the farmhouse farmhouse. The top of the stairs above him was dark with no sign of life. He slowly walked up the stairs readying himself for any signs of booby traps. APPs were ambush as he reached the top step on the stairs a figure appeared as one of the SAS men who who was a staff sergeant. A team leader went up the stairs to the upper level. There was a suicide bomber waiting for him at the top of the stairs who detonated his suicide. We saw device. There was an explosion the SAS man was bloom down the stairs. There was a man down but special forces continued up the stairs moving past. Ask the now dead suicide bomber. The rest of the house was cleared. The fighters scan the rooms to their horror. Several women and children were caught up in the blast tragically. There were no survivors among them. The soldier however was still breathing with only slight bruising and Minor Lacerations Association's he would recover meanwhile operatives had captured five male al Qaeda hostages with the House now clear threat task force black started looking for any evidence linking the House with Alexander Cowie and to the teams surprise the sound of footsteps came came from above them grenade hit the ground outside the compound next to the entrance of the property followed by a flurry of machine gun fire there were other people they've been throwing grenades and opening fire at the SAS. They were killed to another man wearing a suicide vest a squirt or as they call it flat the back of the building and hate under a car that was parked behind the building. He was taken out. It's not clear whether it was one of the snipers helicopters talk about a corden forces were around the building the tallest building the Alpha so at the end of a sort of terrifying twenty minutes. There were a whole lot of dead people in this building including one person blowing himself up in an attempt to kill US soldiers. Another who hadn't had a chance is to detonate his best was lying dead under the car. There were spent cases grenades got every one of the date al Qaeda members that the has been stepped across. I've seen a photo of this had a grenade in his hand with the pain removed and clearly steph quite gingerly across him as they tried I to see what else was in the building. The special OPS mission proved to be a success inside the house. We captured five senior ranking members of al-Qaeda. We didn't know at the time they were senior. Ranking we thought or suspected they were because of the way they dress because of their mannerisms but we didn't really know what we had. That's it's the voice of Matthew Alexander senior military interrogator who oversaw the team tasked with finding out who those five men were and more importantly if they could lead him to Abu Musab collie. This was a guy who had murdered thousands of people in fact he murdered many more people than some of Bin Laden ever. Did you could say a colleague could be responsible for upwards of one hundred thousand deaths by starting the civil war in Iraq he wanted to be the leader of all tied in Mesopotamia and he I saw this struggle as part of the larger al-Qaeda struggle for dominance in the Middle East but is really all about him and his the strategy was to start a civil war in Iraq between Sunni and Shia and he believed American forces. We get mired down in that civil conflict and then the American public would demand and we be withdrawn when he didn't count on is that we would stay now. I know you've heard me talk about the great courses sources plus before and I wanNA bring it up again because I really can't speak highly enough of these folks. I love their streaming service. It's called the great courses plus and it's priceless source of knowledge and just about any field. It's a streaming service that offers thousands of different lectures on a billion different topics. Now the word lecture conjures I to mind division of me falling asleep my backpack in a room full of a thousand other students. This is not that the topics are incredible and they are taught by people who actually really have done whatever it is. They're teaching and they really care about what they're talking to you about. You can learn about stuff from the human brain all the way to learning outdoor survival the skills or how to play guitar even the one that I'm working on right now is fundamentals of photography truth be told. I am terrible photographer. my wife yells at me whenever I take a Selfie or try to take picture her and cutting off heads constantly but this course is led by an award winning National Geographic photographer so you you know he knows what he's talking about. Not only is he making sense of the camera settings all those little things that look like hieroglyphs that could never figure out before but he also gives you a lot of great tips tips and tricks to take better photos for work and family outings or even as a new hobby. No matter what type of camera you have not just technical but also esthetic stuff like where do you put the horizon or how do you frame a photograph. It's really pretty amazing so I want to give you a special offer and I want you to go there and do this right away. Okay start learning with the great courses plus today and I've worked out a fantastic offer for my listeners a full free month of unlimited access. That's all of the courses you don't or have to just take one special introductory course. It's all of their material free for a month but you gotta sign up using my exclusive. Url Okay so sign up up at the great courses plus dot com slash covert. That's the great courses plus dot com slash covert super important slash covert vert don't forget the great courses plus dot com slash covert to understand how Al-Zour Cali rose rose to become one of the most feared terrorists on the planet. We must look to the town of Zarqa Jordan. Five hundred miles to the west of Baghdad or Al-Zour Cowie was was born in one thousand nine hundred sixty six author of insurgent Iraq. I'll ZERKALO WE IN THE NEW GENERATION Loretta Napoleonic other cow is a working class individual. It does not belong to an elitist family in that is very very different from the majority of the lead there some of the Jihadist Movement and arcade them his his background is he was a criminal. You know he spent time in Jordanian prison for sexual assault salt he was a drug dealer. He was a petty criminal Jordan. Well there is a there's a narrative which you find in the lives of of quite a lot the people who got involved without Kaieda and I suppose you could say that there's a period in their lives which you might call the sinful years crazy years as I mean you saw it with some of the nine eleven hijackers that there was a period of their life when they've been drinking heavily and doing lots of things which clearly Islam would consider very very very Harare unplayed Zaccaria was one of those people I mean accounts differ as to whether he was actually hard boozing villa in his hometown now it's certainly true that he was involved in some forms of crime and that he probably had some kind of a piff unie some kind of moments when he realized that he he's life was going the wrong way and the Islam was the answer for him and of course many of those people who had kind of experience often in jail became the most militant jihadist because they felt they had redeemed their lives and discovered purpose in one thousand nine hundred nine. All ZACCARIA traveled to Afghanistan to become a freedom MM fighter against the Soviet occupation it was there he met his mentor and Inspiration Osama bin Laden at the beginning of two thousand finally finally Auxerre car. We met Osama bin Laden. It was a very interesting meeting with the leader of al-Qaeda a very very powerful man in Afghanistan. Also cow was a novelty. It was the leader of this small group of individuals who did not even have a name that did not not have base and the reason why are the Cowie met is because he was looking for a sponsor he was looking for money. He wanted to set up a little camp where he could look after his followers. Osama bin Laden offer Cowie to become part of Al.. Okay dumb former White House counterterrorism adviser Fran Townsend Sir Kelly really came to at least my attention I think many in the counterterrorism community me during the millennium the ninety nine to two thousand period there had been a series of raids in Jordan and there was a threat in inside Jordan there was tremendous cooperation between the FBI the CIA and our Jordanian counterparts during in fact we deployed a number of FBI agents. It's over to Jordan to work with the CIA and the Jordanians and during the course of that investigation it became clear the leader of the cell was an individual by the name of Zarcal. We we knew he was an important terrorists figure. We knew he was an important operational leader. I don't think anyone at that point in time. Imagine you you know more than a decade later we would be chasing him inside. Iraq where he would become an even more influential figure in Al Qaeda in the wake of September eleventh much of the Al Qaeda leadership went into hiding in the tribal belt between Afghanistan and Pakistan the United States had begun its invasion of Afghanistan Afghanistan Zorka we and other al-Qaeda fighters meanwhile had crossed over to Iran and then into the northern Iraq region known as Kurdistan now now that move is very much the beginning of the making with made because the Americans were informed of the existence of outsor- Cowie at the end of two thousand and one by the Kurdish secret service the Kurdish secret service alerted Americans the odds are Cowan was the link between between Al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein it was clear as we were in Iraq the increasing importance of czar calloway inside al-Qaeda circles he had come up during the course of the war in Afghanistan people understood his importance as an operational leader and he was clearly trusted by bin Laden Auden and Al Qaeda senior leadership and so when he was deployed if you will from the federal administrative tribal aries into Iraq we understood as the the American counterterrorism community that this was a significant event this was he was well liked by soldiers and al Qaeda. He was well respected by leadership. He was incredibly capable he was experienced and so he had that unique combination of skills that would allow him to be a real force on for al Qaeda against US inside Iraq in two thousand three the US and other coalition forces entered Iraq and the Saddam Hussein regime quickly collapsed but it created a major power vacuum houser Collie who was hiding in the shadows kick started a campaign of violence. He stirred up the hatred between Iraq's two main religious groups the majority Shia Muslims and the minority Sunnis he then created a militant group with the aim of killing as many many Shias as possible and sparking a brutal cycle of violence across the nation and it was drawing the attention of the United States especially Secretary Three of State Colin Powell on the fifth of February two thousand and three calling power when to Security Council and in front of the words presented also Cowie as link between Qaidam and Saddam Hussein nobody at art of Our cowie before that day I mean everybody in the community of terrorists expert and never heard his name interestingly pressingly enough from that moment onwards also cowie became the men masterminded immaturity of the terrorist various attack which had taken place after nine eleven also Conway's group was named by intelligence officials al Qaeda in Iraq or for short short a Q. I when you look at Al.. Qaeda's mission in Iraq is our couch mission. We mistakenly look at these organizations as terrorist groups. This is too narrow. These are revolutionary organizations that want to spread an idea they can return to what they call a caliphate of fourteen centuries old old concept that there's a pure way to live according to the Koran Prophet Muhammad targets included bombing the offices of the United Nations and the Red Cross regular attacks tax on the basis of US military coalition forces but in an effort to maximize casualties the terrorist group shifted its attention to targeting public markets. It's police stations mosques and with it media coverage and in the eyes of our Collie this was attention on his movement and an important recruitment Krugman tool former interrogator and author of how to break a terrorist Matthew Alexander. There's a large influx of foreign fighters into Iraq after the Abu Abu Ghraib scandal which was essentially al-Qaeda's number one recruiting tool for convincing young Muslims from all across from everywhere from North Africa all across the Middle East to come to Iraq and fight in what they termed Jihad in these foreign fighters were extremely potent because they were the ones who made most of the suicide bombers so they're the ones that essentially we're also the most brutal I think the largely the ax you see like beheadings happen because of these foreign fighters and not so much because of Iraqis Al-Zour collie orchestrated numerous suicide bombings a devastating series of attacks in March two thousand four killed close to two hundred people at she a holy sites czar Cowie was is at the top of the target list inside Iraq one because of the bloodshed he was causing and not just of Iraqis. I mean this. This terrorist leader became a primary source of injuries and killings of our own soldiers and coalition forces and so absolutely he became prominent on the scope of the president in terms of briefings and targets then on May eleventh two thousand four als. Cowley became linked to a new outrage. US intelligence analyst list discovered a video on a jihadist website it featured a civilian man being paraded in front of heavily armed al-Qaeda fighters. He wore a Guantanamo ontong obey style orange jumpsuit the analysts immediately recognize the civilian as Nick Berg a twenty six year old communications expert from Pennsylvania Selena he had been kidnapped in Iraq a month previously the video showed his unimaginably horrific death so nick Berg at having gone there on rather naive and optimistic hope he might find work got kidnapped in the north of Iraq and essentially he sold sold by the kidnap gang to militant Islamists who of course a loyalty to other missiles Howie when the time came that he had outlived his usefulness to then they murdered him and the video is one of those horror show type of jihadist videos in which long knife life is used to cut his throat and you can even hear the sound of knife owned by its screams a truly horrific video but the point is at the beginning of video capture in original fooling was released and it says Abba Miss Up also call always slaughters in America now a lot of people at the time couldn't quite understand why he was choosing to if you lie incriminate night himself in such a grant and grisly fashion he it he appeared in the video. He's thought to wielded the knife. The intelligence analyst sued looks at it felt that the words of the figure speaking in the video were him. It was his voice based on previous analysis of the voice but he was hooded so why do this why incriminate yourself by putting your name at the beginning of the video. The general view was that the kind of propaganda of the deed that very much informed the Jihad time. There's a Collie could see that if he publicized himself what he was doing as a really militant irreconcilable suitable enemy of the Americans that this would bring him money from the collections in mosques for the Jihadi would bring him volunteers from across the Arab world. I did that calculation. He was right. Do you ever wonder why the big wireless providers in two thousand nineteen costs so much I mean that's true with like TV's and electrical equipment and cars all that stuff. So why are they still so expensive. It's because of the retail stores. The inflated inflated prices in the hidden fees. You're being taken advantage of because they know that you'll pay one an alternative mint mobile the exact same network it covers you're used to because they use the exact same networks. It's no different. There's not a mint mobile dude out there on a tree waving around a cell reception thing it's the the same network that one of the big four uses to power their network meant mobile saves on retail locations and overhead and that's how they pass those savings savings on directly to you because you're gonNA pay a fraction of the cost meant mobile makes it easy for you to cut your wireless bill down to just fifteen bucks a month with Mint Mobile Noble. You can stop paying for unlimited data that you'll never use you can choose between plans of three eight or twelve gigabytes of four G. L. T. Data. He can use your own phone with mint mobile because what they don't tell you what the big phones that you can have them. Unlock your phone for you so you're not stuck with them because you bought a phone from them added no that by the way the folks at Mit Mobile Noble helped me with that so to get your new wireless plan for just fifteen bucks a month and get the plan shipped to your door for free go to mint mobile dot com slash covert art. That's meant mobile dot com slash covert and that's important slash covert cut your wireless build a fifteen bucks a month at mint mobile dot com slash covert once again former FBI NCAA senior official Philip Mudd. The guy was so brutal so tough. It's sort of like a Mafia family operating in New York City. If you kill everybody else eventually people stand back and say well we got a big guy the big big dog on the corner in town and we'd better be careful so just the brutality and the effectiveness have his efforts against. I the Americans and then locals I think people stood back and say this guy's a blow torch. We better let them roll. It wasn't that we're losing. It was just we should you know it was just like when will this end in. How will it end. I didn't have any sense that we had reached a crescendo former assistant secretary of defense. Tom O'CONNELL well I. I don't think there's any question that he was intimately involved with a number of suicide bombings beheadings he certainly had a a major propaganda campaign going we knew him to be in contact with Osama bin Laden. He really put the crosshairs on his own head by all these spectacular acts all the press that that he was receiving so he was important as a figurehead. Berg's death was a signal to the world that Al-Zour calories reign of terror was escalating to mythic proportions. I think the legend was bigger than the man because what the Iraqi Sunni started to believe in those people who had joined al Qaeda was that if the Americans can't can't kill a poem can't stop him then maybe he was predestined to win the war and so you had little kids in the street you know pretending to be hummus also cowie because he was essentially invincible in the fact that we couldn't find him kind of added to his legend in also helped them to recruit new fighters which was extremely important to them was to bring in other. Sunni insurgent groups in foreign fighters in Iraq in so finding a boo missiles are Kobe was more than just decapitating the leadership fall Qaeda was also about disproving the idea the al-Qaeda could win the war in Washington ending ulcer conway's reign of terror had become a top priority for President Bush and his inner circle of advisers. Fran Townsend said that they had to untangle the web of small elements that made up always network with with all kinds of Iraq. Frankly what we what. We said we needed to do when we saw them. Having the mental was to step back and say okay what has given them this momentum clearly they had these individual cells clearly they were able to share bombing expertise clearly removing moving some money and then component pieces to explosives and so you begin to break it down you say okay. I have to look at each of the discrete elements How is he moving money. How are they communicating. Where are they getting the component pieces for what are each of the components and what would you need to put it together and I'm going to target each discrete discreet tiny little element if I can begin to pull little elements away. Suddenly the whole thing falls of its own weight and that's exactly what happened. The president encouraged the entire community military intelligence all of it to look at how they could support each other in pulling discreet little elements away to be creative live to find the technology that it was going to require and the intelligence it was gonNA require and that's exactly what the military and the intelligence community did you come and I and the days where you have where the momentum you feel like the momentum hasn't been with you you start with your thought is really so much so so simple all its let nothing blow up today. Let me get through today with nothing blowing up and I can if I can string two and three and four days together I can then switch switch the momentum. I mean you really you start. When momentum is not with you and you're frustrated with very modest goals. Let us get through this day and figure out how to make that two tim days. Al-Zour Cowie seemed to have the power to strike it will and yet somehow he remained completely hidden when you really didn't know what he was doing in Iraq back in. We didn't know like diddy lives there to have kids there. Where was he moving What was his support network. I think what most counterterrorism officials I will tell you as you go through periods where you feel beleaguered right you go through periods where you have your making very limited progress and you're trying to understand why that that is why does he seem to have momentum behind him and you're trying to figure out what can. I do to change that dynamic but anybody who's been in this fight will tell you that's what that's what happens you go through these periods and you've got to push through and you've got to understand what is it. That's giving him the momentum and how do you take that away from him. He was so well hidden that no one had a recent photo of him. Let alone any idea where he might be. He didn't use a mobile phone for fear. It would be tracked. He only met with a select group of trusted advisers visors whose whereabouts were also on known finding Al-Zour cowie would prove difficult but not impossible over a period of analysis this they had picked up on a few predictable elements of zircon ways movements. We knew that we had a spiritual adviser. We knew that he was going to visit him. We identified a car hard that he was going to take to get there and so as you got each of those little elements you understood that it was absolutely inevitable that would be successful is just just a matter of being patient because eventually he would. We had enough intelligence and enough of a network that eventually he was. GonNa make a mistake us an opportunity and that's exactly what happened through the combined efforts of interrogators under tremendous amount of pressure to deliver results quickly every day we were reminded minded how important it was to find an killer capture. Obama suttles Kylie because use the key to winning the war and that pressure was reinforced for a variety of leaders leaders continuously on us and task force black. The momentum had shifted the the rates of his network. We're getting faster and closer to him so you had the sense. We're we're going to get there. You had you had an increasing confidence that we were getting closer that we putting the squeeze on and and that the military was ultimately going to be successful. Al-Zour Cowie's final days are upon him. That's next time on covert. Covert is an audio boom in world meteorites co-production hosted by me Jaime Rennell. It's produced by audio booms. Ben Hostile Rachel Jacobs is Casey Georgie and Karen Bevan and by Pascal Hughes for World Media Rights we had additional production help from world meteorites by Gerald's Abankwa David mcnabb mcnabb is the series creative director and the executive producers for audio boom are Brendan Regan and Stewart last if you haven't already don't forget to follow us on spotify fi or subscribe on apple podcasts Stitcher or wherever you find your favorite shows you can also find us on instagram at covert podcast and and if you've got some time give us a review.

Iraq Alexander Cowie al-Qaeda Inspiration Osama bin Laden US SAS Baghdad assault Abu Musab Al Afghanistan AL cowie Afghanistan Nick Berg Abu Mussa Balza Cari Abu Abu Musab
Episode 229  Dark Emu and Labor Party Meetings

The Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove

1:32:43 hr | 11 months ago

Episode 229 Dark Emu and Labor Party Meetings

"Suburban Eastern Australia an environment that has the time evolved some extraordinarily early unique groups of Hamas happiness. But today we observe are small trial akin to a group of mic that gathered together together a top a small mound to watch question and discuss the current events of their city their country and their world at Blanche. Let's listen keenly and observe this group fondly known hours the Iron Fist and the velvet glove knees. He's like you said David where up to two hundred. And Twenty nine the fizz Velvet Glove podcast normally. There's three of US sitting around the table talking about the week's events but Scott has something on. He's quite secretive about what it was. So we'll guess about what happens. What's happened with Scott? But it's just you and me toward men. Welcome LCM twelve main. Thank you trevor. Glad to be here as always. It's good to have you as well. So what are we gonNA talk about this week O.. Oh Jeez show topics this week. I we. Well we're a little bit short like there's been some newsy things but nothing think particularly matey like obviously allows bobby's head up again and and George Pell and but really these things. There wasn't a lot decide that saying. I thought that we might revisit. A little bit of their indigenous episode who and discuss a few indigenous items that we didn't get to backing episode two hundred thirteen deep breath. Good Air Loins in and we'll tackle that one. Okay yeah I I couldn't think of a better name to have with me. It's sort of brings to mind some of the cliches about going into outer space. You know going with you have a full or something like that. Yeah so Say we're going to talk about indigence matters and rice and sort of extrapolate a few things from episode two hundred. Think so if you're listening to us for the first time or only recently started watching Al Fayed Ah Listening to FAA podcast. It's stop right now. And get backed up. So two hundred sitting over his Egmont Sti- talking about this and why they signed that why I told him about this in a lot of it must have been cavity. Nips two hundred thirteen that. WE'RE NOT GONNA go into you. Good idea if you have already got to that episode. I consider that episode to be one of our finest do in the actual statistics. It's performed one of the worst time you had to be at three hundred and forty five downloads and mice in Europe. Toby at four hundred saying probably because it was a racist. Yeah probably yeah. But then I've had some good feedback. We'd alike where people have said look. I didn't agree with everything you said but it was thought provoking and made me think about some things and that's gold to us do. Yeah and that's what we're about. We're about people people thinking about stuff and discussing it without you know fruit too rigid preconceptions which is or at least being able to shake the free conceptions around a little bit and Reexamine them although we were accused of holding preconceived ideas. We all have them say this subject to confirmation bias to indeed and it's not easy to get alternative voices to come on I. It's taunt factor. Actually Mike reaching out to people and getting them on is difficult. If you're if you tend to disagree with what we say and you live in the western suburbs of Brisbane and you want to join us on Tuesday nights. You're welcome to reach out to us. And we're more than happy to have another voice to provide a contrary point of view. It's not easy and it's not really putting people in the sky it's hard you'd sort of took over the top of each other. It's it's hard to sort of have the same vaud so we could have. Somebody could come into the studio so if he think he might disagree with us. More than most any live in the western suburbs of Brisbane in your valuable reach out to us We should try and sort of play. Devil's advocate a bit more than what we do. But it's not easy for example on this episode that we're GONNA be doing business matters it. It just wouldn't make sense for well what we're going to be doing is quoting stuff from people who disagree with US and providing a response response so there's the alternative you get the actual voice of that best. But you'll get their idea right well. Who knows where we'll end up? What rabbit holes? We'll we'll we'll give it a guy before we do. This is sort of a warm up just a loose nail limbs a little bit twelve made in the in the news this past week like we had will I am who was on a Qantas plein and he felt he was huddle dunboyne Qantas host easy and he then accused her of racism pretty readily accused of racism. I mean that seemed to be one of his first responses is to an altercation he had with her. He's some black American rapper of some sort. On the black eyed appeased. I think is the group. Isn't it rice with which is a fairly well established and popular. Yeah so on one side of the story is the hosting Qantas sign that she was destroying to get his attention and he had noise canceling earphones on. which didn't help? And he didn't like the it was handled inclined was a rice act by climbed she was very aggressive in that she only directed her aggression at people of Color. Put it So one of the things to come out of. That was the Veronica's couple of twins who you're also into China's died had an altercation on Qantas a couple of weeks ago and so as soon as I hit about the wheel I am thing they came out and said we support. You Will Ali'i I'm so the twin sisters climbed the flight attendant had clashed with lie. In is the sign woman who they previously clashed with interest to the Quanta said definitely the same one so an I demanded it will be retracted and the Veronica's said that he shouldn't retract. That's rely envoy shooting. We went there but we support him actually posted on twitter. I believe a photograph of the Qantas and the police officer who was sent to talk to him when it when the plane landed. It's pretty provocative. Isn't it posting on social media which goes potentially rod around the globe. A photograph of somebody who. He had a disagreement with doing her job. Yeah it is my thoughts on this hour. Have you seen the Veronica's no I've I've often cross my mind. I should have a listen to the music because I really have vertical idea while it's line so they look relatively what to me very white. I would have thought and I looked up and I've got ital- on the father's side is Italian Sahelian and what mother is not really what and of course they looked committee anyway but but really the fact that the same high sti praise according to the Veronica was rude and nasty to them and treated them poorly. I should have been proof that the host is not racist because Equal opportunity person in that he's attacked according. According to the Veronica's story line white people as well as black people. Really the Veronica's shoot of coming out and said well let's the same high. St That was mean to us and so it couldn't have been racism because look at us. That's right now that look in the slightest bit non-european to me say ninety ninety. Pick that up. But that's what struck name was. Well she she couldn't be racist. Even story was true. Because you're not obviously black so it's just annoying that people play the race card so readily isn't it Rather than trying to figure out. Well what's your problem. You know what what have I done. Wrong now now it's dried up. The woman was racist yeah ties we said last week about woke nece. It's very easy to just come out and say racist throwing the left and everybody runs for cover. Don't they. I mean even some people were saying. We'll go on Qantas for standing up for the staff because it seems like everybody everybody just runs for cover including big corporations quite often. These Zinser accused of racism So anyway I'm not that way support racism. But it's just this whole this whole thing around. Racism like an accusation is as good as proof. Isn't it these days All the more reason why T- instead of using it liberally to an e went really really. Sure somebody's link license. Yeah anyway that was that story and I just spend Veronica's angle to it to be the interesting one from so. We're GONNA talk a little bit about Marcia Langton in a moment this this is a sort of a warm up on Maciel lengthened for listeners. Who aren't aware of Marty liked who? She's she's well-credentialled. Aboriginal home indigenous spokeswoman various issues and back in two thousand and twelve in her fourth boy lecture and she attacked Professor Flannery a distinguished scientist explorer a conservationist but his comments in East quarterly aside. Because he had said even underlie the governments with strong green bent national parks and otherwise Saif and he talked about how the Bligh government was D- exhibiting areas taking them out of the national park system and returning them back to traditional aboriginal and Marchisio wasn't happy because it was sort of an allegation that the indigenous people couldn't look after the land properly and he was saying I don't know when you gazetted as a National Park you've got even better protections so interesting yes and funding to take care of yes so she accused team of succumbing to the environmental campaign. Audiology that Australia's first people's are the enemies of night show. Well he said we've got me wrong. Mustn't be design. We've got a better chance of protecting these things as bad of a national pan. She might have objected. Because if it's gazetted National Park I don't really know but I'm just guessing maybe the rights of local indigenous people and not as great as they would be if it was handed back. I I think that was what she was. She wanted and Santa bound control of the land by digits people rather than state government. Yeah so anyway. I now the sort of racism. Racism style allegation mic drawer on a guy like that is God so but just getting back to indigenous care management of the land and the bushfires with head race in line. Like people reminding with good reason in the fall that we're having into the been pretty shocking. It was pretty standard practice for indigenous brothers and sisters at. It's just extremely well. No that that's what they deal with and I'm not criticizing knows perfectly legitimate thing to do for one hundred and but when you talk about the indigenous peoples traditional sort of custodianship of lane you do have to take into account a couple of things. One is the prior to their arrival. Onto this landmass there was a lot of lodge fairy animals. The disappeared at about the timeline digits. People appear because I'd never time to adapt so obviously the mall and that's pretty much look at some of them and the rest of them didn't adapt well to all lose their then the changing sort of education because because the indigenous people were Creating has everywhere and that was changing the vegetation in creating grass lanes that suited the smaller animals the kangaroos rather than the large animals. Where the beginning go? When there's a fire rising all around them in day can get barbecued indeed and and really eucalyptus were quite a small sort of part of ar vegetation saying upon their arrival and a short in historical historical terms a short time later eclipse everywhere fire resistant and ended well in fire conditions? So we've mentioned it before but sort out of the lead-up intertwined with a bunch of other. Things seems to be this assumption that indigenous people can do no environmental wrong and the similar thing happened in New Zealand of with our brothers and sisters across the wrong to marry extent. Well from what. I've read under the distinct impression that they're hunting of that. Very large bird rallied to its extinction. Right ethically reasonable wolfing today for hunter gatherers but this guy ran afterwards. So what magnificent manages the way the other thing is we're GonNa Talk About Canyon and in talking breeze Pasqua paints a picture of cultivated fields stretching as far as the eye can say mind boggling stuff really considering what we presumed to know about how the lifestyle and the economy of our indigenous brothers sisters so if true you that it again paints a picture of of quite substantial alteration of the Lance Guide that ninety was not for the better if if true so true. Yeah Yeah we'll get to that I he's done very well out of that. Book has new Bruce Pascoe. I mean I'm not suggesting US become wealthy. But it certainly only received a lot of positive coverage raw in the meteorite high in the chat room John Dismissing. He's finished driving these. Here's John Towards the end of the podcast. If you're able to hang in there we might get you discard being and tell us a story so just let me know. Johnny is going to work because John got involved with Labor Party not with religious nation. actum trying to pass a motion through his local brain. So hold onto. That would be good John. If you're able to get onto sky a little bit lighter we'll definitely definitely drawn hook you up right so back to L. Indigenous episode number two hundred and thirteen and as I mentioned please. If you have not listened to it listen to before listening to the rest of this on. Now we've got a listener Brahmin. He's terrific doc because Brahman disagrees with us on stuff and actually says why specifically she disagrees and gives Cajun reasons and we're happy with that and we asked for feedback and and she gives it to us so so at the time Bronwyn was the only person who had any decided that nobody else it has popped up and say anything specific about its Brahmins. Anyone we can sort of answer feedback from well. Oh so hope. You're listening this evening. Brahman Brahmin she sometimes is in the chat rain but not right so in her comments She said one of the first points was you've said before repeated in this episode that you believe that people should receive special assistance or consideration g cheated disadvantage. Not the color of the skin. A pretty that indigenous people in Australia suffered disadvantage because of the color of their skin. Even indigenous the people from urbanized and middle class backgrounds will suffer some level of discrimination or mistreatment because they look original to white people or because they assert certain indigenous status means some otherwise so this is a sort of thing. That's hard to measure. Who Do this sort of subconscious? who sort of cultural rice isn't it? Not Not only did that sort of sometimes quad either turn look. I have heard stories from some people who've experienced it and it. It's it's definitely a bad thing unpleasant and you know there's no way we think it's a great thing at all. But I can't help feeling that having a so-called Racial Discrimination Commissioner for X. Number reviews as we've had has really helped matters because it seemed to me the last one. We had out of his way to find examples of racism facism and to persuade. Australians that we are in fact very very racist now it seemed to me a more constructive approach would be to take a more positive acitivites approach and say racism is bad therefore why can't we just look at each other as human beings. We are after all one race the human race. He's can't we just sort of not sweeping it under the rug as some people would probably accuse me of trying to do but just encouraging people to ignore are superficial external differences because they are very superficial when it comes down to it but no the Racial Discrimination Commissioner. It seemed to me went out of his way to encourage people to find and get angry about racism everywhere and it. It seems to me that encourage more people to see racism where probably was not intended and examples. It's like Would Cy doesn't matter whether it's intended not just happens. And it's it's there as sort of a constant Well feature I couldn't really understand unless we subject I think it does matter and I'll give you an example. Somebody close is to me who is of mixed heritage Asian and European used to work in restaurants when she was young and she used this to tell me that people often saying to. Where are you from and I took that as just me curiosity because she's very attractive young woman born and that would look and go? Wow you know where are you from. And she would say Australia and I'd say yeah. But where are you really from. And she used to get very upset about that and I can. I can understand being asked repeatedly where you really from might be a bit confronting or a bit unsettling or you know I hate to use the word offensive into. But she didn't like it but I I used to say to look. Maybe they just curious maybe they just they look at you and your beautiful young woman and they're just curious and it's it's not an expression of racism so much as an expression of them genuinely wanting to know more about the point was that they went it kind of traitor poorly because of different. No I don't think so the opposite in fact but you know what I she interpret. I know she interpreted that as racism and it seems to me. People are encouraged to interpret everything any kind of misunderstanding or aw suggestion of difference to interpret it as racism as as negative racism and I think that's an unfortunate. It's direction to going well. Let me just backtrack again to what Brahmin said she said. I'll put it to you. That indigenous people straight off a disadvantage because of the color of this game evening evenings people from urbanized and middle class backgrounds will suffer. Some level of discrimination will miss treatment because I look aboriginal to what people like was I said Indigent Status Marcia Langton what talked about before Who is she? She's a leading academic and indigenous. You too spokesperson is held the foundation chair of the strong indigenous studies at the University of Nelson's February two thousand she's an anthropologist with a Bi from the National University University in a PhD in human geography from Macquarie Uni began academic career in the Northern Territory University and she's made significant contribution to indigenous studies as a disciplined into government and non-government Polisena administration throughout her career. who better qualified to give an opinion on this in she? S- is aboriginal. People in big cities are not disadvantaged in Haniya taxpayer. Funds to them is hurting those in desperate name. She says that she was prepared to stand up and sigh. Yes I am indigenous but I am not disadvantaged. Clearly we have to get tough and up to fifty percent of the indigenous population could stand with me and say I m indigenous. But I'm not disadvantaged like people in the territory she said that the Gama Aboriginal Festival first of all and she Chris is the territory government accusing spending vast amounts of come with money to tackle aboriginal disadvantage but instead used for why towns six and she went on a bed a few different things. So she's kind of agreeing with the point. I'm I think and okay sure there will be some disadvantage suffered by been indigenous people but is significant ignificant. Marcia Langton saying no. I'm saying that like lots of people suffer some sort of discrimination of some sort so short people I these people non indigenous Colored People Asian people tattooed people white people in Alice Springs Wchs. They're all discriminated against at some stage in their lives to some Mon- mixed in but then just get. I'm I'm just GONNA jump to another one here. There's a Guy Georgie antsy. who was a sociologist? Who is a black man is in the US? He's black and his evangelical Vin Jellicoe. And he said I thought of academia faced more problems as a black man but inside. I'm your face more problems as a Christian it's not even close said. DNC The black sociologist senior teaches at the University of North Texas. Sighing that Basically Lots of discrimination in the academic world because because of Evangelical Christian more than being black. So that's an interesting interesting speed on a right. So that's point one of what Brahmin and said you've pointed out that's earlier on before we start recording a lot of the activists so climbing to the discriminated against. We're not obviously black. If you're being discriminated against it would be because of I you look black and somebody thinks your black person and treats you poorly because of it all. You're not black. But you've been growing growing you've grown up in a disadvantage black community and have suffered any inherent sort of cultural holding back of your of your lifestyle because because of your cultural sort of Sasho economic condition imposed on you by being a black person and some of these people have really had quite a privileged upbringing. Seems if all white looking and have had a middle to high socioeconomic. Upbringing is it possible L. disadvantaged PAS on the surface it doesn't seem like it does it and the ones I'm thinking of course the usual. Well you know I mean and I know it's it's it's a hard thing to say. They don't look black. That's that's just what crosses my mind with some of them because the classic case of disadvantages you look back on treating you different. You know getting that job. You're not getting that service. You're not. You're missing out John Something you would otherwise I just I just think it's very selective very selective ancestry when you see somebody who looks as European as you when I on a panel show complaining about the treatment of indigenous people. I'm I'm not saying there. Shouldn't they shouldn't speak about it. But they identify as indigenous people whereas we can see plainly obvious from the the body shape looks like they have more European ancestry in in many cases than indigenous ancestry and yet they seem to be willing to completely lately discard the European ancestry in a sense and completely identify as indigenous. Well it's puzzling but really like we wouldn't care. Who Cares if you want to do that? Like it really doesn't matter except when you then cy but disadvantaged and I want something because of it and and then we have to say. Well you disadvantaged tell us how because you not being disadvantaged walking down the street with people looking at you think in your different and giving you a hard time because of because they're not going to say jealous what disadvantages nail with becoming. Skip skeptical zoos. Sort of say we don't really care but if you want a decline some recompense for disadvantage than we kind of needed night a story I guess have and you've probably heard stories of indigenous people walking department stores and being followed around everywhere you know. That's that's nasty and we'd we. We hate to think that happens and probably does. I'm sure it does does so. That's sort of overt. Racism is obviously disgraceful. Done like title but you know what probably somebody crest really poorly with a bunch of really bad tattoos and the Ouachita singlet would also the huddle side received the same treatment. That's True Yeah I K- point two from Bowman. Since the nineteen seventies public policy and program development industry has and cool prior to principal. There are a number of minority groups in society requires special assistance because I- disadvantage by social social and cultural attitudes and for other reasons these programs have focused on providing assistance with access to education health and other essential services. Australians have biolog- John Lodge accepted this as a necessary. Part of living in a civilized society an example of such a program is the national disability insurance scheme in responding to the question of whether indigenous digital product will result in unfair advantage. I would ask you to try. Substituting the names of other cycled minorities for the indigenous minority. Does special she'll assistance unfairly advantage. Non English speaking people the Disabled or women be careful about that last one guys so what she sign is as we were saying the problem with giving a blank check to a rifle grew his at some people in the racial group. We need a bunch in that we want people to be identified as needed in order to qualify for the check from Slough Rahman saying we've got a heist of other programs programs. And could you say the same about that. Spike about assistance programs for Non English speakers for the disabled old for women. So I simply started Brahmin will with those groups we test them we ask. Can you read if not then we will provide audie with assistance. Are you disabled okay. how much and in what way out assistance will depend on your specific circumstances stances in relation to women. I'm not sure what programs Roman is referring to that we might say had be given birth like. Here's some maternity leave. Have you raised children. Here's some returned to work assistance program. Are you a single mother. We don't just give it to people because you are a woman we normally ask just like the means to this. I mean you don't you don't get the pension just for being old you get for being old and for needy so I think there's pragmatics thanks kind of proved the point that we assigning dominance is that empathizing with the constant everyday casual. Racism would not be easy and maybe I be not possible and that's true but then casual. Racism will not be solved by implementing. Things like that. You Larousse Statement. We exacerbate assefy the problem. If we divide people think scientists she said about the Stuff about the special advisory body to parliament but really didn't silent more than what Professor Twenty had said. So I think we dealt with that and and I had the refugee in analogy because I said that imagine if we said to refugees. Well we're here I you've come a long second. You're not going to qualify for some special advisory body until you're saints beneath three generations and even to married with a local Big We'll tell you outrageous promises. I don't get it but if you think it's pretty obvious analogy so i. Ideally we want lawmakers to make laws on the basis that they might be subject to them so if there was some sort of crazy Chrissy Iley and spy ship. That was able to rearrange people on new. Deny way YOU'RE GONNA end up and there's a chance I was going to end up as an indigenous person. I'd be more unhappy with the with the sort of proposals. You might even as opposed to the ones in accounting. So that's one looking Roy. That's an interesting analogy. Yeah so prominent others have also often referred to dock. Ania by Bruce Pasco as a book we should read and this book he's famous for describing Agricultural fields that were planted untainted them online indigenous people. The central thesis is that are indigenous people. We're not hunted gathered. So much is at least some of them. Were well at least some of them. Won't he's saying that it's a myth. That they they were all hunter. Gatherers that in fact. Some of them were agriculturalists. And I think he even makes the claim that there were the the world's earliest agriculturalists lists wrought so I'm GonNa apply so he spoke at a Ted talk and I can apply some of his tedtalk and this guy is for a little bit. It's going to be potentially four to five minutes if you don't listen to it all. You can fast food forty-five minutes if you're listening to the replay in the live chat you're going to have to sit through it but but this is important to get a heads around because he might statements which organised by Wrong so let's be very clear about what he has assayed here. We got in two thousand fourteen DOC EMU which exploded the myth that aboriginal people were being hot as in gatherers on did nothing with the land. I wrote the book because I found it hard to convince strident as that aboriginal people. We're farming using colonial journals. The sources Australians. Hold to be true. I was designed to form a radically different view of Australian history. Aboriginal people were family. There's no other conclusion to draw colonial explorer. Thomas Mitchell road through nine miles of stooped grind. He wrote about seeing massive fields of Mon in on. Truth is in western Victoria. Lieutenant Guy the first European explorer into many parts of Western Australia was halted by Yam fields fields that stretch to the horizon. Many explorers saw great harvest grain in the very date. hob Aw Australia. Did you know that the hillsides of Melbourne with terrorist for Yam production by local aboriginal people equal in fact there was such abundance of staple foods but aboriginal people were able to preserve store and trade vast quantities but none of these inflammation appease in any Australian Book of history. Is this absence deliberate deliberate. I believe Australia is ready to discuss the ancient agricultural economy. Let's look what the explorers reported of the Aboriginal Agricultural Landscape. And see if you can remember by any priest parent or professor mentioning the way. The world's first agriculturalists always having trouble convincing academics Sahib Astrid is based universities of these farming tradition after a meeting where I was chastised for misrepresenting Australian history. I realized I would have to use sources which all Australians respected so one went to the first second hand bookshop. I could find it in the back room. I found a copy of Mitchell's journeys into tropical Australia. As soon as I read that he'd ridden through nine miles miles of stooped grain. I knew I would never have to apologize. For this argument. Game Mitchell's fellow. Oh explorers describe it as looking exactly like an English field of harvest grain stoked for ripening. Steuck it's an interesting word never to appear in the aboriginal history astray into told Mitchell also saw yelm field stretching itching as far as they could see. I'd Gary Word in Western Victoria in his journey. He extolled the beauty of these planes but assumed that God had made them just is that he could discover them not once thinking help curate laws for the best soil in the country he to have almost no trees. This was not God's work but the intensive management of Aboriginal People Manage Manage Field of harvest in his journal Missionary George. Augustus Robinson reported seeing women stretched across the Seinfield's of horticulture. The culture in the process of harvesting tubers. Lieutenant Gray was blocked in his explorations of Western Australia by Yam field stretching into the horizon which was so deeply tilled. He couldn't walk across tilled. There's another would would. You've never heard in any Australian classroom. Isaac Body One of Melbourne's first European farmers wrote the hillsides of Melbourne had been terraced to increase the production of games and that the tilted the soil was so light you run your fingers through them. Incur noticed that as he brought the first vehicle into the plain south of Chuka that he's Cartwheel's turned up bushels of tubes Once again some of Australia's based soils almost bereft of trees. The planes having been horticultural altered to provide a permanent harvests of tube is to feed the population but unlike Mitchell self-indulgent congratulations. Kerr was aware of WHO ED produced this. Productivity and lighter recognized that it was hit shake that destroyed it till paint a picture the familiar with and in it. Hey is His quoting an explorer Thomas Livingston Mitchell and I High did well. The first thing I did was I just googled. Criticism of docking. I came across a website called Doc. AINU EXPOSED DOT ORG and and looking at it it basically when you do someday tile about how what was quite undock emu about what the explorer lower Thomas Livingston Mitchell said was completely wrong and gave several sort of alleged to sort of quite sections from Mitchell's Mitchell's diaries. And compare with what Dr Game You said and I thought to myself. This is a strange website like dark. EMU EXPOSED DOT Org Doug. It seemed like that's sort of funny. Fonts it kind of a little bit of an amateurish. Look about it and it seemed like just a bit of a hype blog sort of thing and I thought what people would assume it is indeed and I thought to myself a better check. I can't rely on this side because because it just seemed a little bit too rabid foaming that I can't even I this sign. They quoting the exact words out of the diaries check. So you do. I did good on you look at the Internet. Could you imagine if this was Iran when we were like the ability to just Google and sigh by the of Thomas Livingston Mitchell in a pdf form. Please end up. They come of links to them. D Listener there's in in fact to journal of an expedition into the Interior of Tropical Australia and three expeditions into the interior of Eastern Australia there in a pdf form. So you can tell word search on sample you can do a word search and look for the word stooped did looked at. Because I didn't I was I was. I'm not familiar with the word right in the in the actual diaries of the non-euro what did you find a bundle of the harvested grasso grain typically high that is tied up and left in the field to dry out the grain can then be answered so with explorer. Thomas Livingston Mitchell's diaries in pdf one of them's like five hundred pages. The other MOMS mm several hundred words which guess what. What's doot does not appear in his at all no way? Oh and it's a Pasco is guys embroidering. Onto on top of Mitchell's journal. Indeed doesn't use the word at all. Anyway that's interesting just because he seems to imply that Mitchell sore methods of stooped grain field. Yes so so Pasco seems to quote the wrong journals so Pasco appears to incorrectly cite. This is being from Journal of an expedition into the Interior of Tropical Australia. When in fact it seems closer to a passage appeasing three expeditions into the interior of eastern Australia? Different document chick bay for them. Neither of them has stooped inside so the reference to the sort of thing that was happening is definitely in the second one the one quoted by Pasqua error these the wrong one the significant era considering the extent of east climbs indeed. So sorry I mean when you actually guy to the section in retail starry hide ninety of the nineteen sixty nine on reprint. I'll quite what he actually right. And each side's the Narron was full of everywhere and with this abundance of water there was also plenty of most excellent grass. The Pentagon lower vinod of Dr. Linda seem to predominate a grass. Where of the seed? Cooley is made by the knives into kind of heist or bread. D- Roy heaps of this cross the had been pulled expressly for the purpose of gathering. The Sie lay along a path for many miles. I counted nine malls along the river in which we rode through this grass. Only reaching to settled goods and sign. GRASSI seemed to grow back from the river. At least as far as I could reach through a very open forest I'd never seen such rich natural real rich natural passage in any other part of New South Wales some entirely different seems to the one that appraise he's describing riding through naturally growing us. He's not riding through fields of tilled grain or anything indeed deep naturally carrying grass that the niners have gathered clump solve and different points. Have just dropped with clump dies clamps to be gathered and beaten and Brian Hunter Gatherer Star and in fact they could've as they walked along a path or along a riverbank from time to time Tom or even Wrigley pulled out clumps of grass But that's that's kind of a trial of clumps of grass not acres and acres of clumps of Roth indeed seems to imply that this guy was riding through feels of cultivated grass dade and as the the blog Si- if Mitchell at saint any son of Aboriginal Agriculture such as tilling the lanes sewing Said's cultivating waiting or your guiding. It's much luckily he would have recorded it and just think instead of just recalled the diesel grasp pulled out and Paul and heaps of dry. It's all the on the website. They decide how how much manpower would be required given their polat tools in detained. And that's the key isn't that they didn't as far as any of the early early reports go. They didn't have any tool resembling plow or something that you could use to cultivate the soil. Oh on a mass scale. So I've got a link to a video which you've seen an aboriginal grid which is really three wives kids for women and some kids. We didn't see any man in the video that I that's looks like central Australia to me. Doesn't it yeah. It's pretty dry and flat looking country. Yeah it's well actually according to this website as a final piece of real evidence rather than just relying Mr Pascoe's interpretation of a few Eurocentric Farming Woods Explorers Journal. We have kite film clip of a family group of Aboriginal Women. Gathering Wall draw seeds in the central Australian region of Mr Cass Pasco's aboriginal grind built. It shows the sea grasses crying to heart of SALGA Earth's along a river in a typical soon as described Mitchell. We invite the reader you to watch this wonderful film Clinton themselves and this is five fifty thousand year old sane of Aboriginal Hunt together as we believe. It is highly disrespectful of Mr Pasqua towards these women to betray them as soil tilling farmers which is clearly something they are not. It's click on the link dealers and have a look. We've talked better before one one of the fascinating thing to meet fascinating to me was the quality of the teeth of of these women. I noticed that as well. Yes yeah so I can see its tusks of natural grass. That they just pulling and some time. I'll give you an anecdote about the teeth of indigenous people because because I bought a book by an American dentist to travel the world in the nineteen thirties. I think right because he was curious about why Americans had such should ask teeth so he he was an affluent guard so close closed up. He's clinic issue when traveling around the world and he specifically looked at the Diet Diet. The relationship of Diet and lifestyle to the condition of teeth and even not only indigenous people found Swiss people in Swiss Mountain Valleys Valley's who had perfect teeth as well but they didn't have access to things like sugar but indigenous people rod around the world had the most wonderful foale tooth and he took votes to. Yeah Anyway Yeah. CAITLYN's just joined in the chat room. Caitlyn we've just described Bruce Pasco's book doc really misrepresents. It would seem I look of of Mitchell explorer. Can I just say Pasco seems seems to be saying that all these early chroniclers of of indigenous life among the early European eighteen settlers. He's saying that basically they omitted a lot of information. Because I think you'd agree with me that if they'd seen it just as you said and if they'd seen anything like agriculture they would surely have reported it but the crux of his Ted talk was in order to convince people. I had to find. Stop that people would trust. which was the diaries of the early explorers so I walked into a book shop? Fan Thomas's not Thomas. Thomas what is it. Time to Mitchell's diary and they are I fan these woods. VOI- La from the mouths of white people. Clearly that was then the case so east east saying that. In order to prove his thesis he had to find proof from western accounts. But that's even that example so this is is just like you have still not read docking. But he's the problem. We don't see something like that then. I'm really skeptical about reading. Meaning other things because he might say that explorer. ABC or Deif said XYZ motive said something quite different misinterpreting. The data is. It's the sort of book now. If you had to read Yuda you would need to have some sort of CR- takeover by somebody who has taken the time to look at the source material and decide. Does it actually stack up It's been like reading the Bible if you read the Bible Guy Holy Smokes. I'm down on the Hanes as comprising the Lord but then when you re critiques of it by the people saying well actually. That's not true. And he has these the things you need to take into account before you accept that then you go well. I wouldn't say to somebody. Now go and read the Bible and work it out for yourself. You'd say you you also need to read other things that are critical of the Bible and work here giving some context. What you think ways the truth more in law so That's surprise you that you know. He's he's accusing. Virtually all the early chroniclers of omitting meeting huge amounts of information about the indigenous indigenous people. you know like trying to deliberately misrepresent them. As secure hunter-gatherers whereas in fact Pasco saying at least some of them were farmers but now none of the early reports described them as farmers. This is the other thing about. This was also described as sane way all the trees being removed fields of grind. But these wonderful wonderful custodians of the lane who've looked after its I well it's gotta get the the the other offerings anyway really. That's doc amy and and really treat with Kale. What is setting Lina eyestone? His interpretation of Mitchell's diaries need have the picture you paint is not one that I would have got having having read the diary to me. The critical factor is the absence of any kind of tools that could have been used to to lodge areas of soil although Pasco does claim to have found one tool. It's a stunt. I just don't recall now. I did see it in the book but there was one tool that he claims could have been used for tilling the soil. But when you look at it it's really really hard to imagine engine. It could have been used to to till really really large areas of land. You know you might have killed a backyard garden with with it and it would probably take in you all day but to till the acres and acres of land that he's claiming with tilt it's just where are the tools you know. How was it done and it would have been required and the point made in that website? You pointed me too. Was that even for people with tools. Also you know early European agriculturalists. It was very backbreaking work. Tilling the soil to grow fields of grain very very back breaking work which required intensive labour which we saw worked in East Asia for example in China Vietnam Japan Korea where whole communities were employed to till the soil because it was labour-intensive and backbreaking need a lot of people and we know the populations of indigenous people. We pretty sure though pretty sparse populations weren't Weren't exactly you the densely populated areas with I. Yeah I if anyone's reading docking check the references if there's foot night they're referring to a reference then fine the original source and read it and see if it actually does sign and look at the tools because I know there are photos of the tools in the book that Pasqua claims we used Right still on indigenous issues. The University of New South Wales the Australian always putting the sources of these things in your favorite potent recently reported that the University of New South Wiles is advising staff staff to avoid teaching students about the arrival of Australian indigenous people onto the valiant content. So naturally it's advising housing staff not to describe the style having been discovered in seventeen fair enough exactly fair enough but the guidelines occasionally wander into the design of science in particular university. Staff are explicitly advised to avoid making reference. To the fact that aboriginal people have lived in Australia forty thousand years instead. They're advised to dight the aboriginal presence in Australia. To the beginning of the dreaming 's because such language reflects the beliefs of many indigenous. Australians have always been in Australia from the beginning of Todd's in came from the lay. They didn't Margaret here. That we're always here. The document warns that quote. Forty thousand years put to limit on the occupation of style and thus tends to lend support to migration theories as an anthropological assumptions too many indigenous. Australians see this sort of measurements and quantifying as inappropriate end quote such such guidelines approved by the University of New South Wales. Dean of signs are in direct conflict with the scientific consensus of the origins of Aboriginal. Australians twelve million. I'd censorship isn't it. It's it's it's saying you know. Let's let's support their mythology more than science. You would've thought universities about telling people subjective reality and if there's a dispute to give both sides of aversion but there is no dispute about the origins of indigenous people under this country deal is now. I've just started reading now listener around the camera. You probably can't because it's flaring. Everyone is African. One of turns from Sydney recommended it to May Hassle it's explodes myth of rice and talks about tracing have mankind lift Africa through deny fine. And how incredibly exact in specific that can be a bad how groups of people moved and divided into subsets and then moved on further individual either and incredibly specific even within Africa dake they can map the migration of humans through Africa even before and the after they migrated after Africa. Yes so there is no doubt that indigenous people in Australia originated tonight'd like everybody else in Africa Africa Differently different routes but I got and mixed with neanderthals along the way and with Denisovans along the way. And that's how I got beyond dispute migrants to slot plot the rest of us. That just got here a little bit sooner Some facts about denying the differences between us is zero point. One of one percent is at the differences in denied between people we as a species incredibly homogenous Danine and chimpanzees have great variety. Seriously yes interesting. So even though there from a small county so the other thing is if you're looking for variety of deny that would be found in the original African population in fact there's less variety as you look at people in the rest of the world in his eastern main con- evolved about two hundred thousand years ago and and I think left. A portion of all of them left three the sort of Arabian Peninsula at one point. You're talking about Homo sapiens. Yes yes yes rather mankind. Yes thank you because they were you know. Obviously as we know there was several branches of humankind many of which ended in Dade. It ain't extinct date so there's about one hundred and forty thousand years wear. I got to develop a different tops of DNA sort of variance occurred so out of that lodge population at that time. Sixty thousand years ago. A small Subset crossed Iva and then expanded the rest of the world into the rest of the world so think of it like this if you had a a really big bucket of marbles that had all sorts of exotic interesting differently coloured marbles spread throughout the bucket and if he just got a cup and dipped into the bucket and then use that bucket. If you looked at the differences in the the amount of discrepancy it would be much less in your cup of marbles compared to the large bucket. You've just got less. Yes that's effectively. What happened was you had a small subset? skype debt of Africa populated the rest of the Africa and the Migration Automated L. A.. Rod Deny still in Africa Antonio in the Chat Room says we're all descended from a single Mata conrail female I ancestor. That's correct. Yeah a single. Yes yes and assigned for a mile as well. So they're Abishai these things. With Zindi there was a Martikan real eve. And if you go back there wasn't Martikan Real Adam would have been ten thousand years after the or something like that. So they're able able to do that. Very exact in what they can calculate sign university music wiles is really people Dan on if they're not explaining what is a much more fascinating story will isn't a little thing to know just a simple what we're always hearing we popped up Elliott. Some drained on story is something. It's much more fascinating the actual truth. And what did you serve as for university editor to whitewash disgrace. I mean that a university would actually do that to throw objective. Learning learning out the window to placate political correct. You know Right people so now in the chat room. We've got John I think it is is Wanting to get to us on Scott. What's going to do is go to the FISA VELVET GLOVE DOT COM? Today you website in the bottom left hand corner you'll see links which include skype. I'm a skype link. Just click on it and that should far up your skype and you should be able to get onto us. If that doesn't lick send me an email with your skype by day in all Scott doing so if he can do that that would be good because he's got a good story to tell a bats the Labor Party branch that he intended say I bit of fire up a email if I'm going to try and track. What's happening with if he does outside? I can't say on on this club. Dot Com bottom riding. Corn is a bunch of different sort of social media links. One of mm-hmm is skype. If you click on that that should then have you calling us so try that one guy send the message doesn't or send me your semifinal number by email as well and I could just call you. If that's the other option. We can do that. which might easy? I could just call you so shoot me an email and let's do it. That way might be easier sign right. Let's just keep going final thoughts on indigenous Mata's and this was looking at Canada very similar to Australia in its experience with the native population. They're similar incarceration Alcohol abuse dysfunctional communities the reasonably affluent white population. Really not sure what today next and perhaps similar attempts to assimilate the indigenous people into mainstream society which turned out very badly for the the people who was taken from their families and put into institutions. Yeah so there's article and this one comes from quillet so deal is now trying to tell you the sources of things because it does matter I know you like willing and but I will say that well will you can say it's slightly right wing. It seems to be now that I would concede that because quilts whole old reason for being is to to give a platform to people with slightly unorthodox viewpoints in terms names of Unorthodox for the Contemporary Academy which tends to be quite left-leaning wrought so it's right of the lift but is that really right. quing anymore I kind of putting it in this sort of category. I think interesting because the people in spiked spiked of the founding edits originally were Marxist brought. And I've read a bit more about some of them and some of them are a little bit mm-hmm yeah it's moved a long way since then. I said in this article this Canadian guy. Mike's the point about communal ownership and how that's such a big problem for anyone wanting to get ahead in the night of indigenous population and in these towns where everything is held under communal ownership and Ni- person can family can buy sell Lisa mortgage mortgage the property in the normal manner that the rest of his type the granted side. This is a crushing effect on business formation and land improvement and and why housing using stock on reserves degrades. Sangu Italy is no interest in taking care of it. Now and a half and the normal why there's little financial incentive to invest listing any even bicyc- Kate and since residents mortgage the times now in his security lending indigenous people. That no less industriously ambitious anyone else but they often leave their reserve communities to find their fortune. So here we go. Let's destroy by John Either. Yeah you asked me if you're a member of the live apart and you're an branch and you basically looking to pass some sort of resolution about the religious discrimination bill at. You'll likable brain is that Roy tells the story Yeah I joined up at eight months ago because I wanted to talk talk to some people love Monty on the same similar level conversations with the Moya most of our lives just gigahertz anyway so but a fan and interesting because I've been L. Two guys through and and tight from what you you got back to me and also some other materials fan from within the body floating around so there's a favorite opposition for that for this nation within the party on my I shouldn't have religious freedom mill. Meaning you think that within the live apart deep branch that they're against the religious discrimination bill so be saying Yeah Federal State and councilman but the Am I supposed to be back on Asian and fighter Forza And is about twenty ever say and every invited for Roy so by that went through on paused got to now a member of the local federal Committee got a little bit of resistance based on safe for it. That more for the menu sold a the national is putting up HE S. I can't remember it exactly but it was pretty much. Just sign the sorts of things. You'd expect decide that were against the bill as necessary and it was providing privilege to religious groups tips as opposed to protection for memory. Something it was kind of long standing in line but that was it was a little bit mixed up. I think I've learned to put his patience and together a bit saga resistance because it was a little bit of the price for the Federal Committee was to push the opposition. MM spokesman on such matters whether or not with potty stands on On by the trouble. Is this Christmas. Dance everybody's what he's going on peace obstinate anything else. It's kind of NEAT. Probably get much throw until January. Sorry I think my top side Within the Federal Mating those about twenty people from different branches on well. I mean. I'm about halfway down the sky. Sega but I'm but I must say sport even religious people I mean. I don't think I told you they might like a Senate member. Federal would resist. I thought she wasn't able to feel. This is where and Nice same to be pretty supportive of where I was as well. So a friend of mine within the branch has re Roy Moy mission and we're GONNA put food fold again and say if we can push that 'cause I basically just said the things you riches in a system crooked shit I surprised I thought I'd get a little more resistance especially my range. President was signed that a lot of resistance at the committee. It didn't seem to get that really The federal law has member. She said that she talked a lot of fuel parliamentarians in the lower house. Where but there are a lot of them would just calling 'em discrimination bill often enough unless so these guys so these were federal Lyda members were were saying that I think I think there's a lot of federal live members visit forward? I mean there's a lot of religious not everywhe- so I think I mentioned to me that it would probably guy through if it actually by the Federal Federal Parliament in the lower house would probably be a yeah conscience fight which surprised me right it would be conference fight. It is how these things play with factions and and the be all sorts of reasons that have nothing to do with common sense but I've all sorts of reasons to do with power and POW applies and getting elected seems to be Biden's more interested in getting elected than going with principal. Yeah I've been pushing in the mountains that have been going to yet because it's come through at the meetings that they really are frightened of the narrative that they lost the election on religious grounds. And I'll keep pumping Beckham Emma's level. It was never mentioned in the election. So can you decide that. But then also ahead in the LAS meeting that that was a lot of Underhanded stuff that really mike the media if you know what I mean like religious church has going around in groups putting I love stuff up that that got out this I am but I'll I'll just kind of kept silent in the mountains that it's a rich powerful minority ethically anooth avenues. I sort of felt myself tried to the election. That religion hadn't played a big part. But we're getting inundated with a lot of media that said it. Did Cy young now. Starting to be convinced on sort of done I wear a law and that one just do night at some point. You've got to have some principal and say well we've got to soften the blow for religious people going to side in respectful why much more respectful inside icon type of and maybe you as well John. Somebody has decided and respectful. Why decide look? We're not stopping you from practicing your religion. But there's a limit here so you suggesting John that with in in religious communities around the country people are being guided as to how they should vote if if the local pastor or priest decides that the Labor Party has gone too far away from religion then they might be advising the parisioners not to vote for Labour. Party's have what you saying. I would think definitely. I tried to down in Pauling that the federal election and the local Church group it organized at fifteen they chose can Gripe to come into two handed ahead of I I knew I also An hour directly for the Liberal Party that was with denomination now. I didn't say I had A. I had a couple of conversations with a couple of them but they were very passengers. This is a brought west thing. It didn't didn't seem to be high up on the thinking I just thought he's handing out pamphlets 'cause I've been telling and in it. I thought it was a good idea and the other one will. Federal local member told me that the next day she was actually having the a I think it was a Catholic priest and a pentecostal and another one lakh heads local area showing up on commanding a meeting with her strongly talking about the. This is what I wanted to talk about Roy okay. So she was shake shoe. She got impression either way. She said she was. She was brought up a a Christian but that's not quite where she was trying trying to cover a vice as a bit so I'm interested in your experience as as a member of the live party and attending meetings so I gather you've finally joined. ID months ago. Is that what you said about the Guy Roy and to get some conversation about politics that you weren't getting elsewhere and and will i. I you getting that conversation in the meetings do they actually talk about issues and things like you hoped they might do Yeah I do actually found a quite a fan of quite good. The best part of families that are done agree with everybody but we can talk about things you know. I mean we can argue it out and it's it's it's fairly structured Put My shins up and and we had a good discussion about why we lost the election and that that went on really well you know we have different points of view on it and everybody to have their cy and now she's I will try foods so about an health into the meetings once a month I it'd be at twenty people turn up. Yeah yeah so it's it's always surprise. have any branches. There are in my area of Think experienced roughly has that amount sadly decided that they're all all the main on fifty so I was Gonna ask the demographic just angry old people or is there is a lot of that at branch president and is younger than they bought that fifteen years old imagine and And the secretaries. She's younger than may go up at ten years old. Imagine like about other than that everybody else's retards trying to figure out how to get transport to get Royd guy and and and the actual So the local state and federal representatives health health with diabetes. A meeting from what I've found that every quarterly I would say pick MHM side in the federal wise. Actually impound like you've you've got a federal liable person in your district so he's saying actually branched Oughta cavs to areas where I the the Labor Law has federally and Lower House. State and local councillor Are In my branch but then all gotta if a safer ALLOWUAH LA electric for federal side. I but every three months you could talk to a person who's actually a number of common and who can have the ear of even if you've got a good idea in theory Gang with local member after Gov I got up and And we had a lot in common which had it for twenty minutes after that Very approachable and and Kinda talk. Aw that's good encouraging. It is encouraging kiss. I've been telling people I should join the Party and try and get active so absolutely and that's caused me to I I know of these the The My japodlay is a lot of because I can't control them but of of a fan or branch inside the next level up committee that The daily screening for men as they want all wouldn't you think they would would be wanting more members in terms of giving them added legitimacy saying see we have all these thousands and thousands of members so we truly represent presents. The Australian people yeah into think just and also just ahead main Pale. I'd election so the call on you to help out. Is it other than elections and handing out pamphlets at that. Time is a zero strong core. Need to be involved in of wise wise besides being in the meeting in having a Tam yet another committee thought it up Toronto Cell to do something about global warming and had to figure out how to push it had sell up to the to the populace They wanted me to get on that but I work of annoyed. Saas pretty hot out to get to the saints The there's another one that I'm GonNa Komo with saying that. They put a few areas together to have a couple of meetings with multiple getting into one. You know what I mean. Instead of just opened the paper you put talk to every month. We're GONNA talk to the next Areas Ivor. You're going to get together sizable type. Eleven chat about different things. Have you spied any of them onto the on spill constantly I have with the president is He's probably he's he's very left in fact hit another competent. All all. You don't want to be that far life but I think he's fired off we'll keep so that's good okay. So they'll tell actually actually since cameron put me onto Egos because the festival had you. Trevor was money on Cameron's podcasts. And Yes yes oh yes. I wasn't teased. When you push sandalwood wrought Yeah No? We had a lot of fun with Eric on the side. This is on the way I was against on cameras. Always podcast the bullshit filter and we did a little of two episodes on Boris Johnson. And as being funny for us because it was a lot in jokes we actually actually really neild. Boris Johnson like Reagan. We actually really have a good account of that. Guy is and everything that's happened. Seen says pretty much lined up with with the sort of picture during the man that we painted at the time I think so it was a fun thing to do. You say well. You'll have to tell him that you manage to skype. Being recorded live and all the rest of it and then he needs up. He's he's kind onside if he's an extra fan like a comment. Trevor that I really love right but you have have it to Cameron. I did more activity and also when he came on this podcast Seagal has Guy Beckham NBA. More and I thought Cameron perform better having some assistance. Yeah well it's important to have a contrarian voice so yeah I've said to Kim. I can leave these problems that ride as agree with him old tawny and but but I actually get sort of criticism emails and things on this podcast with people find the trough made contrary for example and. I say you're kidding like it's perfect because we need a contrary invoicing foil ican bounce off and when somebody stops stops and says hang on a minute. I don't agree with you. Then have to shop and what you're saying and really come up with a much better argument so it is important to try and get contrary invoices Salaam that we still in reality. We probably agree more than we discourse and again people. Chris is because we don't have enough alternative voices but it's not easy to get somebody truly right wing to come in and truly we don't have to be right wing. They just have to disagree on something. Yes they say So you know it is one of the things I like about. Our podcast is that we do you know. Obviously the best ones are when we get into arguments in China or Venezuela order a key topics like that where you can progress several episodes we cannot have put a country up a bit Korean. Did you say by macy's before that we've gotta hit me when you guys were talking about. The Korean conflict was sort of in the middle of legal goes wherever civil goal. Not Civil. I don't think it was a civil. I think it was a civil war because the two major palace were heavily involved. Um If I hadn't vein. Prussia had supported the north. From the get-go I would've taxed by that I would suspended. I don't buy the supply of all those weapons at the Russians guys them especially when we'll go out and it was you know after has gone for months and even years with the locals involved. It was Johnny's in American Fair Enough and attend to extent on that so again. It was kind of like being a devil's advocate in mind. Tiny position but it shows how hard it is to really simplify things because things are usually complex complex rather than simple out they especially that sort of major conflicts is a number of factors apply. Quite turn talk to for anybody to find a country that's need to fade with magic power and I've come out better oft indeed. Let's think of one country. That's well I think pretty good example. Could what what about an example. John Japan Yeah. I didn't think of that Eh. Because also Japan it was a it was an extremely patriarchal society. It still is quite a lot of if things got changed I remember listening to a podcast on late. Night live where one of the interpreters working for the US was a woman in. She was managed as an interpreter to get done to change a lot of the inheritance laws and other things The only thing I've had Japan that was that occupied by magic power offer much wall whereas these other countries like you know the careers and what's another good game on several or all of the South American countries. They went you. Nigel war thing occupied with I just got into feed with yeah but True and ultimately could say Jim and he was a success story after begging to feed on themselves. Yes yeah very good I well. That's a good picture. You've painted of of of Labor Party from your point of view. You'd never been in a number of a political party before will go into meetings such until now. I've been interested in a long time. I try and talk politics. So let's onto people very interested Usually I want arguments but people I was. I was always interested in. Say What it was about. So I'm going to stick around for Law Thing Institute Saliva Party if I may ask because I don't think the live of priority goes potty suddenly noticed eldest five left as I think that needs to be but then I don't think that can be too far left because they are An majorities in Santa into some way. That's watch is alive body because that they've got a real estate Possibility of getting into government Live from part of that then at least I have my little saying which direction going. I think that's travels argument to isn't it yet. Nine was not to join a party. Good evening sample. You wasting your time. Yeah even the policies mart ivory will be better. Your you'd be better off you know party. That's actually getting into pan. Dan Working working from within Mizzou. I thought the Democrats on and maybe even the grains where an option at one stage but but they just seem to once I get into some sort of a position of power or control of power to adapt to the bigger picture. You know what I made like to kid. They Policy Galley especially the grinds with a visit. The cabin tax originally that it just vied for visit Tony how it's one knows it's too bad that I think That had the attack nine tax or was it wrong. I I can't remember but the Greens effectively threw it out the window didn't they could have gotten up in some football. Get something up. I don't seem to be out of the shack a sidewalk while the highway. And so so you're driving a lot in New South Wales at the moment correct Yeah drive heavy vehicles for a major company. The Orange one eight any experiences with the Bush vase of night and now. I'm finally local lumber on my in my wife Do a small pit transport as well where we get At West Nusa false. But we haven't been for a while I walk out this morning. He defied the Meson. Me Back Tank is west of us out this morning could naven up knowing this morning and you couldn't even say the ask Carson straight this. Even in downtown Sydney. The smoke was pretty incredible this morning. It's it's caught on the why that's Nor the Blue Mountains comes around Sydney Ball. So I fall is to the northwest to insignia. affectively in the Blue Mountains SORTA thing or in the mountains side but it's over a close to save the. It's like from the harbour bridge the fall it would only be fifty guys in her as Christ loss. Sydney sort of surrounded by lots and lots of wild forest. Isn't it. Yeah definitely Rajon well. Let's a good story. Good luck with have that motion proceeds let us know if you can get in the ear of member and and actually something happens as a result or you get an interesting Fade Beg Stein touch and good on yet for skyping. In that worked at the end of the day I think goes up by answering machine instead of doing it the other way before. I think he didn't have any good. I'm good on you for joining a political party and getting involved. If anybody else doesn't let us know oh I'm toning the chat room said he's local ellen. P meeting near him broke into a fistfight in chicken. Shot Ah they met in the lead up to the election ave waiting for good argument with somebody. I haven't had a really good argument yet so very good classified at the time. I mentioned this to put up. The there was a an Alderman nixed me I think the regular trash edge Callahan was caught a frontage the that that he told me that some nonreligious people more likely to secure religious people WPRO really disagreeing with him on that one. No I love being persecuted. All right right. Well that's good John. Thank you for for skyping in keeping touch if anything interesting happens and declaring that success. Thanks for that thanks. Oh boy I see guy interesting. Yeah so that was good. Let me just transition out of that back to that screen. I mean I can't say technology worked again eventually. I'm all done I you becoming a Mazda. Good sign and isn't it great to have people people who listened to the podcast to actually really getting involved in politics on a personal level. I really would like to see more people joining political parties of of whatever stripe just get involved and thrash out with each other. Yeah southern just sitting on the sidelines until about it so it's good to have feedback and conversations with ud lease numbs. It's keeps it fresh for us in fun so well I want to thank the patrons so let me quickly think well. Let's see we coming up to the end of two thousand nine hundred not too far away. Move Man and Let's do these by years. Why back in two thousand and sixteen? Sean the engine will only patron in two thousand seventeen had cried John. Lane and Wino- Jahmai Ellison and Steve by the way land in a sentence of voicemail but will white for Scott next week for that one. Sorry how long's the podcast been going there before. And it was i July ally four and bs ago four and then how long since I've become a regular because it seems like threes ago it couldn't is it three St thing. I reckon that regular for this seventy ninety I thought how long has it been a couple of years at at least a couple. At least we should look thoroughly enjoyed In two thousand eighteen had tiny caitland Jimmy spud. That was kind brahmin match. Robbie Rod Palais medicament Dominic. Liam dive squeaky wheel Daniel Harry Pita and Captain Doomsday and this year we've had wheat watch. Andy Murray Melinda Atom Professor Doctor Dentist Willow Glen Craig Matthew Alexander. Pull Tom Tarik Emil Kim. Donnie Darko Clinton and Gavin and the non-patrons Dean. CAIN was the beneficiary Mr Anderson Korean man. David Beverly and in but a few interesting sort of emails in the last few weeks of a mixed bag people complaining that we're like some of the episodes but we were talking of the Towfiq chiller committing logical fallacies was accused me of Stroman and and he was very specific about the instant that he's climbing. And what see was all explain why. It's not a stormy. Some people have sent criticism which was very general. And and if you've got to criticize be specific about what we actually said than you specifically reckon was the problem Rahvam and general laws. You can actually deal. Yes so if you have a criticism please Mike it very specific where we send. This always said that and that was we disagreed with for whatever ever reason and if you think we're doing a marvelous job and send us some feedback till the fall stirs up because some people say the opposite. So it's nice to have ego's stroked a little bit. That would be good right well trough man next week I think skull back. Okay we look forward to. Yeah thank you dear listener for tuning signing off. We'll talk to you next week. Thanks everyone for listening by now. A matter of scourging bulletins has been brought to my attention. I speak of coal off. The generous contributions made my the patrons of the iron unfished Velvet Glove podcast. He's fine men and women have sacrificed so much full. Their countrymen never before in the field of human conflict. I've so many old so much to so few to those of you who are not not yet patrons I say give generously of yourself give until you can obviously shame. I have nothing to offer off. Mud Blood Hoyle tears and sweat. What is the time tonight? You know where's my whiskey chagall Jr..

Australia Thomas Livingston Mitchell US Mr Pasqua Pasco John Indigent Status Marcia Langton Scott Brisbane Eastern Australia Aboriginal People Veronica Melbourne Europe Africa Al Fayed Mr Cass Pasco Qantas
Episode 245  COVID-19 revives the idea of the common good

The Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove

1:35:06 hr | 6 months ago

Episode 245 COVID-19 revives the idea of the common good

"Suburban Eastern Australia an environment that has the time evolved some extraordinarily unique groups of Hamas sappy happy but today we observe a tribe akin to a group of mic that gathered together a top a small mound to watch question and discuss the current events of their city their country and their weld at large. Let's listen keenly and observe this group fondly known. Ask the Iron Fist and the velvet glove he ends will come back to you. Listener upset two hundred forty five of the on fist in the velvet glove. Podcast and if you're watching on the livestream you've got a live image of me but it's gotten pool of just a still picture but fee not by our there so they're all right but I don't have the video but say the only moving picture you'll see is my ugly mug and you'll get to see the chat rooms. Well I fleet so welcome aboard if this is the first time you've joined us this strain podcast where the last four and a half years as we've talked about news and politics and religion and we've moved into that taunt a kind of a study of Sasaadi top of podcasts released the logic trains and Asa Saudi and looking for changes initially. We'll talk about religion. Then we really moved into politics. Free Speech Libertarianism ethics issues like that and low and behold after two two hundred and forty five episodes. We end up with one of the most cataclysmic evenings in human history. It seems so on Trevor. The fused with with me as always is Scott. The velvet gloves Scott. Are you there? I'm here how I get? I told get listens and pull you're with us as well. You just still. You've got US I was. I was material. I had to work with Paul. Was the problem anyway now. This is a little bit tricky for us because none of us can see each other. We'll see the guys. They can kinda seem looking at other stuff. If you're in the chat room say hello and let us know that you're there looks as I d be there so we can say you and of course we're gonNA talk about The Corona virus and the impact that it is having on society and really what massive changes is this guy to cause in is amazing. How quickly it has brought a discussions that would completely off the table. I only two three weeks ago. And we'll talk about it lighter but the most right wing newspaper on the planet. The Australian is is suddenly contemplating socialist ideas and admitting the demars of capitalism. We'll we'll get to that so it is amazing how quickly this is turnaround. Thank you watch. David and Greg Champion decided age Scott and we had a chance to speak deal is not we actually much? During the week we send each other the odd message but we don't really converse much so it's all fresh Scott lead off with your thoughts on on what's happened to this planet in the last seven years. Well it's amazing. How quickly has moved into something? I think you described as a cataclysmic event and I think. That's probably the rottweiler. Put IT IT. Certainly appears to be cataclysmic. It's moved out of something that cannot we was just sitting here a little bit about when it first happened that something was going on in China but then it just very quickly evolved into this runaway bloody fright trend that has impacted me even up here in regional Queensland Way you know I think there's been one person that's being reported with the Carolina. Varsity now like malaria that we can't even go out and buy stike anymore. We can't go out to a a restaurant because they're all closed now. You know on the broadside the churches and synagogues and mosques had to close icon for beer anymore. We're GONNA have a beer at a time so cheese. The other thing is it has It has really taught me how to manage attain the not in front of me so on in contact every day with them must've member whether he's in the office or at the office because we're on a situation where if one of the ones out of the office so that we're not yet actually potentially infecting one and there's a lot of team building so happening in in workplaces reminding absolutely in. Yeah same thing. The other thing is the better half saying well. The thing is the better half said that The buses going into the city empty but everybody else does in the county. I driving into the office because they want to be on the bus getting infected by anyone else. You know inside Yeah that's a hell of a minister so I think that One of the habits began to break is one. This is all I have once. We've got a vaccine. We're going to have to break the habit of dropping cells to and from work. That's the first bad habit we go to break off the good habits. We have developed learning to manage your team remotely and that's stuff that could become a very much a fixture of laws going forward. Because I quite enjoy my is working from. Yeah but there'll be lots of nine this morning so there'll be lots of changes like that but I'm sensing some things we've been talking about in the last six to twelve months where Let me just turn that off. Let me just Some of the things. We lost six to twelve months where we've been promoting things like universal basic income or wealth tax or other sort of left wing sort of ideas and they suddenly people are going to be talking about them like Money to do stuff. According to the government you couldn't rise new start for example but all of a sudden. They're fan the money like The sort of spending on on social programs that this conservative government is now prepared to do is a complete change of direction for them. That that I've had to admit too. So that's the thing that that interest me. I'll just quite a bit. There was a guy Richard Dennis in the Sunday Piper. He said for Dick I destroy have been sold on an imagined poverty. We've been told we need to rein in government spending that. If we want to spend more on health or education we need to spend less on the high pension childcare but the reality is that if we had a big public sector to die we would be better prepared to whether the health and economic crisis triggered by the AVARS. Hopefully by the time you come true this we will have learnt. That listen wants for rule because nobody thinks the market is the best place to tackle the virus. Nobody thinks government should step back and let the private sector step in so one of the first casualties of covered. Nineteen in Australia is the neo-liberal rhetoric a bad government. Spending being a cost to the economy. So just as the bush fires China Australia views on climate change and the importance of investing. Your emergency services. Kevin will change strains attitudes towards spending on the public health system in almost inevitably public spending in general. I think that's the case. I think people are going to be able to Sinai well the taxes as such because we need those intensive care beds that were missing during the corona virus. We need the health staff that were missing. We need public servants in an office somewhere to answer the fines when there is a crisis. And you want to get onto a new title lowndes because you've never dealt with Welfare before this somebody they who knows the system that can answer your call that that there are people in place took plan for pandemics that the witnessing America where they're you know public service has been whittled to the buying. A house is being whittled away in the last thirty years. But it's still a bit of state and they is in people at the end of this going to be able to say is actually value in the public service. We need to be spending money in that area to me over the last seven days. That's one of the crucial things. That's that's GonNa come out of this. All of you know disdain. Anything we disagree. What do you reckon pretty much agree with what you've said not sure about whether it will change the government thinking about welfare in the long term? I think they see that. It's obviously necessary to his people in the short time because otherwise don't be literally the situation having Los Angeles at the moment which is little villages of ten twelve hours in every public park. And do you know a calm? That's in And I guess the government doesn't want to see that happening with the a lot of Very big questions asked about any government that allow that to happen but we we often on the podcast. Talk about the short term memories of voters. I think the government will have a very short term memory about the need to St- of People in native after these blows up this and I've I've indicated it's a short term measure this particular government. Yes I think the public in general will start to recognize although in the chat room. David says trip. I'm a public servant and I can say with absolute certainty need more of them. That is more public servants. We need better. Public Servants Dined Weist. Scarce Resources Will David public servants include nurses and doctors and right at this moment nobody is saying but we need more of them except for you and the the the system crashed for central link for people trying to register on an avid called sand lake near but whatever it's called for unemployment benefits it crashed because probably some high paid consultant from You know some consultancy gridlock. Deloitte or McKinsey or whatever. I came in and did a job and said well they guy that'll be enough and will disappear because we don't have to live with the problem that might come about and of course when a client comes like this it files we don't have you know all would've liked a few more public servants available when that cruise ship pulled into Sydney harbour and discharged. All those people like somebody to test. The temperature would have been really good. I would've liked public servants to have had the time to think about ordering more test kits for a pandemic and having systems in place like it's just demonstrating if you don't want public servants. Look at the American situation and then compared to other countries where I do have a substantial public service and see which one does better and which one you'd rival living like. I just think it's obvious but so at the moment one of the things that happens. Public Service is Italy's not easily is not doing particularly well with this ours and they would have a larger public service than the Americans do it. I think there's any doubt about that. But die clearly have stuffed up their votes inside because after they gotta suffer see. I've worked very very high up in it in Queensland police and what he found was that I just didn't pie it people enough side. I would millionaire and find a job in the private sector so there was no corporate knowledge in the IT Department and consequently outside contractors would be real need all the time who would ever charge and under deliver and it was because public servants weren't pied enough like really if you know that there is an ongoing job for somebody then you should be employing them directly yourself if you're going to outsource to contractors. Then they're going to pay the people the why'd you have pied plus a profit margin that's hail providence? Surprise works so you'll get the sign person you would have gone. Plus the profit margin that the contracting company asks for that's how it works and it just insert jobs. You have to pay a high enough out for people to to to stay in the public service. It's very good very good punch because as you say this. This short term thinking results in the loss of accumulated expertise is in date and corporate knowledge. And now we're at the stage where in the defence force. We don't even have people able to contract with subcontractors. We have to hire subcontractors to write contracts with subcontractors like there's nothing left in the Defense Department. That's how bad it's got so it doesn't side money and of course they would be departments where there are people who are no longer suitable for the job and it's hard to get them out and boy oh means create better mechanisms for firing people who are under performing but at the end of the day. You get better value when you employ directly than when you use contractors because the short term I give you a quick and dirty job and I disappear and dynamic to deal with the consequences so anyway just on so as listener. Thanks to your patronage. I subscribed to various right wing newspapers such as the USTRALIAN in limit. I'm a standard. At some of the articles that have appeared in destroying for example. Allan Coa in writing in the Australian. So He's the guy you often see on the ABC during the finance report bad would sit against Allen caller. I always very tiny yeah so just to paraphrase. What he said in the Australian he said capitalism needs arrest and the state must step up as economic. Depression seemed guaranteed no matter what. Monetary or fiscal stimulus is applied and governments everywhere will be forced to supply unlimited cash to stop people from dying of starvation or lack of the usual medicines and therapies capitalist. Small government economies like strollers will be replaced for a while. Buyoya Socialist one in which the State owns the means of production of money. That is but all bets are off near something. New has come along. Capitalism has to close for a while and the state has to step up from Macquarie Wealth Management write an article in the Australian like mcquarry wealth management. I can't think of a more capitalist group. Probably capitalist group running a more pro capitalist newspaper right recording off management stocking stockbroking arm of the beating heart of Australia. Capitalism Macquarie Group warned that conventional capitalism is dying in. The world is headed for quote. Something that will be closer to a version of communism. We have been arguing that conventional capitalism is dying or at least mutating into something that will be closer to a version of communism mcquarry analyst. Right this transition will be marked by cross-currents external shots sharks ultimately a fusion of monetary and Fiscal Levers will lead to mnt stall policies effective nationalization of capital universal income guarantees and changes in word practice. Find that amazing that that is in the USTRALIAN newspaper. I would have been my house on it three weeks. You would never see such thing and who won't pull you gotTA clearly. The current crosses the kind of craw assistance reassessments of a whole range of things. Indeed not me we can. We got you at the end. You cut it a little bit but you're you back with us so right. That's sort of an Iro picture of of just a sense of people's changing ideas about government except for dive in the chat room. But I'm not surprised but some of the things that we should talk about. Things have moved so quickly. And it seems like the government is is behind all the time Public opinion in one of the things these school closures and a lockdown that that seems inevitable. Now we're seeing it all over the world in other Western countries where schools are closed and people told Steinheim and only the mice to saint. You'll services are running it. Just it seems inconsistent. Decided people that social distancing is so important and then three thousand kids run around together in close contact at the same time with some ill adult and sometimes elderly teaches. Strikes could go look. We don't know the science behind this. Trust the experts but they can recognize an inconsistency when they see one and I think they recognize inconsistency and say what what the hell how. How can you say on the one hand everybody stay apart? And on the other hand Si- Schools should still remain open. So you guys think they should stay open or should clouds. I think this is Scotland and Paul. What do you think I'm not at all sure because Have the scientists said that it's a good idea or not because it seems to be mixed messages coming on? Well it's it's a what the problem is is a conflict between wanting to nine and economy on the one hand hand and protecting people on the other side Schools opening Singapore E S and Singapore Singapore heads. Singapore had people. Aren't taking everyone's temperature of the straight you know so peaches. A paper queued up for bus and there was a guy walking along with one of those. The moment agains hid getting the temperature so Singapore was very good at that yeah. They had a lot of other controls implies that we don't have one of the arguments that Mike is that doctors and nurses if the kids are taken out of school will be kept at time having to look after them. And a Soren Allison's facebook page. She said that all the doctors chain. You already had their kids at hard. Because they didn't want kids at school so and I think we can find. We can have skeleton staff operating in a few scattered schools and medical staff. You can send your kids to that school your kids if you can't look after the Mannheim like we could offer something like that. So people see that inconsistency and say that just doesn't make sense in. Here's the other thing about the argument that you see is that Scott Morrison and others have been saying. Look anything that we do. We have to be prepared to do for six months and otherwise you know we can't just do this for a month and then and then re open the schools because we'll just started the problem again in my answer to that is well the whole point of flattening. The curve is to deny mass infection. And we're at a point where we really diagnose what's going to happen and we haven't been able to test people who don't show symptoms and so what we could do shut schools for four weeks and then as we get to the end of the full week's look at the infection right in the community and say you know what it's it's out of control. It's too risky to reopen the schools. All we might say you know what? Infection writers as flattened. We could start thinking about reopening schools. Like it's complete bullshit to say whatever we do now we have to do for six months. I can't believe that the commentators who applied to question these people haven't made that point clear to them to say that that's nonsense. We can test this. We can do it for a month and see what happens and just be really sure that we not spreading an enormous amount of infection through the schools. And so that would be my feelings on that but Greg in the chat room says I work in school camps and we've been completely shut down the irony of being afraid of having twelve kids in the wilderness but not two thousand kids in school campus burns. My Brian and Matt's is good. Point met the issue with the schooling will be if kids Olga. I'm not all parents who are essential services can provide supervision during the die. Edginess IS POWER PLANT WORKERS. Water treatment facilities agreed. And so I would say is surely we could have some schools with a skeleton staff operating in San Anna to look after kids whose parents are in essential services and says that does seem to be some evidence suggesting that adults more likely to give kids covered nineteen and vice versa. Point is kids dinesh. I the symptoms. We don't know how much they transferring the virus between themselves. There's a lot of adults in school and in a situation where we dino and the risk is so high it just makes sense to stop and get more test kits so that we could for example every kid who enters the school. We test them to see if they've got a favor and if I died well they can come to school. We could do things like that once. We've had four or five weeks in order to gather the necessary resources. I just can't believe that And so what we've got now gotten in Paul. His clearly dangerous and gladys buried a starting to run the country and instead of Scott Morrison because he's been dead caned to keep the schools hyphen and they have more or less said. Well we've making decisions. He say I think that's interesting but they sort of starting to take over leadership of the country so I still look back at that photo when Morrison went in there and very quickly in hand. She looked horrified And that was just a complete lack of late. Ashiq Tony's PAT so Morrison's argument also always on school. Closures is quite. I mean. Kids could lose their entire year of school. That is one of the strike here. They're very high state disease and there's a lot of opinions flying around. That's quieting the prime minister like kids. Missing one year of school is not the worst thing that can happen like in human history. We might say kids in twenty twenty all ended up. You know repeating that year because of ours big deal. That's the whole point if you were to close the schools for the whole year then you might have to repeat the year the next year. But that's no big deal. He might have a situation that you might have. You might have only half the kids going off to that. You would ordinarily take so you can then eased back into it. It's just a lot of garbage that and I can remember when I was at school guys at took over a twelve month period. Yes came back and the quart up. Yep Yep so so anyway doesn't it doesn't seem an insurmountable problem does not. It's it's not an insurmountable problem. It might be a problem if you're insane you. If you're in senior you might have a problem if you had to lose this whole six months. That Morrison's talking about that could be a problem for you. What's what's the problem like Hamlet? Kids take a gap year and then I ended up doing this to twelve months after that completed up after obviously they they schooling. They take a gap year. But they don't take a gap year while they're at school. Yeah actually sue in the chat rooms for seniors. Sorry I I was just GonNa say that the the people who are in charge of giving out Invitations to enroll in university etcetera would make some allowance for the The the problem that we had this year. And perhaps I would refer to those children's previous year of schoolwork as a as a reference to in the chat room said I respect to a New South Wales teacher did I and I had been told not allowed to teach any new content while this goes on. We'll let that makes perfect sense and freeze the kids in time in men in the chat room said by the same token if the argument is that essential service is too important to have it. Hi I'm watching the kids then. By that logic they should be isolated at work in the kids handed over to the skeleton school crew. So they don't go home from the Petri dish classrooms to infect the valuable care. It's it's just a very good point is a good points and it's not a perfect world. I think we should. I think we should a essential service personnel into some sort of all in can keep them there for the duration. We could use that town in central Queensland that the the football is GonNa go and they don't need anymore we could. We could so. I came to important avid. Hi I'm watching the kids then. By that logic I should be slighted where I guess this is where if we had enough public servants on board we could look at getting people to act as a nineties carers and things like that for these for these kids of essential services or assistance in some wine so that they can stay at home and be looked after by professional for example if we're closing the The childcare centers And whatever we could we could see who's available to act as childcare for essential services if we had public servants available to do the calls and into Mike Arrangements. I guess Thatt's what we could look at doing. But we don't have the resources to do Reut as part of a Louis. Scott Morrison was very angry with the people on Bondar beach and the went practicing appropriate cycle. Distancing and the problem is that Well again are looking at a sort of a twitter tweet on this with somebody said Mr Hunt. Think he's the health minister says what happened on bond. I was unacceptable. I say looks pretty much like my classroom on any day last week. Except the Bondar seems had been a hygiene resource people. Get people can see inconsistency I can see it a moral off. I'm interested in the role of Dr Norman Swan Cuban. I has got a new. You listening to Koranic now. I haven't been listening to that. I'm aware of it. I saw seen him on different things and I saw him on Q. And I by the way. Cuna has improved dramatically with tiny giants nego. I think it's a lot better Anyway do you think. I think it's a little bit of with the new gone but Tom but anyway just on doctrinal He's kind of like a war sitting like this little war analogies with his rhinovirus and there's a tendency boy this library opposition to not rock the boat and be seen as being unpatriotic if you like. They're always bipartisan. When it comes to defense and it seems that they realize going to be bipartisan. When it comes to the corona virus and and so what we've got is a lack of opposition to the government line. I think dot normal swan is performing a really crucial role as the devil's advocate to what the government is telling us because the opposition. I'm heard the opposition CY. One thing in in contrast to a government decision. Have you heard anything from the government's being running this rock? Show perfectly the Heaven. The heaven come out to criticize anything. So it's left to guys like Dr Norman Swan to actually provide a counterpoint to this because of this weakness Boy Labor that they don't WanNa be seen as a snarky unpatriotic opposition. It seems to me signing off. Can you imagine if can you imagine if the tables turn the Labor? The Labor Party was in Gotha right now and they had the opposition with someone. Like tiny ever leave. It would be a different story. Wouldn't it be very different store? Yes rod slipping from the sidelines. The halt on Si- Do you think the live up to Saas. Stockton you're cutting out on me but whole comments on the jet room that's raw. Says what would you expect them to object? To what government policies would lie to the objecting to well schools should be open would be one thing like whether the people should have been left off the ship in Sydney Haba without any testing would be another one Why there wasn't test kits organized while we haven't done enough testing ECON. I can't imagine that this government has been operating perfectly the whole time. He even Scott Morrison when he said. We're going to close down everything starting from Monday. A CEO The forty. There really wasn't any comment from the library position so I would've thought there's plenty of things for libel to objected to about government policies particularly when it comes to schools and and the testing regime. Which at the moment is is restricted to people who have symptoms who have been in contact with somebody who's been diagnosed with Corinne of ours it out testing the community at large you know why not wear the Tyszkiewicz Authentic there's enough Sort of objection by the opposition to what's been happening by the government. Sorry Scott I would have thought that you mentioned that. Close everything down by the way. I'm going to the Foodie that would be something that Albanesi could have picked up on and said you're a fucking idiot. You're reckon it's a good idea for anyone to go to the Football Alvin as he was apparently going to go to the football until one of said. Now that's not a good throwing so he'd book he pulled out of that and then after that Morrison Data Guy Clearly. These guys are getting someone in the. You know one would have thought that anyone with half a brand really wouldn't want to go to a study them. Forty Thousand People Paul in the chat room says I think libraries giving the government enough right. You DON'T WANNA test everybody. Because Ninety nine percent of those tests will be wasted and you have to retest people. Well one of the test I seem to be doing. I have assays. Is these temperature tests. Which seems a good start. At least way you've got crowds of people or you know in would be an excellent starting point in a school. I would have thought for example so that sort of testing. We don't seem to be doing at least so anyway right. I would like to talk near a Bart Morrison's stimulus package which is really not a stimulus package participant attempt at survival package and the money. That's being thrown into the economy to try and so things out so before I do that pull says I thought temperature tests were accurate but he can double check and recheck can test people i. Let's talk about stimulus package going to chat room for a moment. What are we have in the initial package instant? Write-offs of equipment and accelerated depreciation if businesses want to buy equipment like complete crap idea as businesses in. This environment are going to be buying equipment. The people in this environment who are buying equipment guys. Mike VENTILATORS FOR PEOPLE. And they'd be buying them whether there was a tax credit involved or not. That's something where the opposition because that's something where the opposition could have said. You've got to be kidding. Three point nine billion on that. Let's use that money on something else. Direct to the people. The other thing is the government is going to tell you that they've they've united injected. One hundred ninety billion dollars in the economy is part of their. If it's to get things moving now about one hundred billion of that is simply quantitative easing by the Reserve Bank with the Reserve Bank. Bicycling just how do they compete created? Alasia talked in one hundred billion in started lending it really cheap to banks and said he's some cheap money going landed at Cape to people. That's helped the big end of town in some way but for the economy in general that is doing nothing. And it's not a cost to the government budget. In any sense it was the Reserve Bank printing some money and offering cheap money to a to a full big banks and say he going gone through this cheap money around as best. He can say useless endeavour and and not genuine spending of money. It was the Reserve Bank creating a loan to give to potentially businesses. What else is in the package? Loans to small and medium businesses with my repayments for six months. You Coffee Shop. You take away. Shot your small business. He's just lost. Everything is not wanting to take out a line at this stage like. Do you understand anything about business. These people need a demand for the product before they will take out more lines. The other part of this thing is giving businesses money based on sort of a bonus payment to businesses and it's essentially giving it business baroness equivalent to the tax that their employees pie is essentially what they doing with some minimum amounts and some maximum amounts. So I'm going to give you an example of how it works deal listener so If you include pot. Tom wicker's the Australian Madiun. Wide is about a thousand dollars. Not Thousand Nine hundred dollars per week median widen Australia compulsory. Suba at another ninety six dollars so the tax on a median wide is one hundred sixty dollars so the government is signed to an employer. If you've got somebody on a median age of one hundred ninety two week we're going to give you one hundred sixty dollars per week and we really hyped the employing that person at if they annoy dollars per week it's essentially a it's a subsidy of fifteen percent so the government in its papers no the the government says this measure will benefit around six hundred ninety thousand businesses employing around seven point eight million people and around thirty thousand not for profits so based on figures the average business targeted by this employs an average of ten point eight papal so the average business will get ten points times one hundred sixty dollars. Which is I two hundred dollars a week. If it keeps piling the wijers of twelve thousand dollars per week with no customers and potentially a business actually because they not only had tried. Why would anybody continue paying wages? Twelve thousand dollars per week just to get eighteen hundred dollars per week. A subsidy of fifteen percent. Not Everybody's going to do it. That's not a subsidy that's not have to ask you'd have to ask you failed treasurer as they e- cutting out on the you'd have to ask if you had treasurer alone you'd have to ask for my Bill Matzo ever so the WHO would do that if the businesses have crashed have been forced to close so so what the government is actually doing as well is it spicing lease payments on the march. Twenty twenty best statement that a business lodges so then it doesn't matter what happens after that. March Best Statement. So if you sacked all of your employees all of the calculations for the next six months are based on that. March Best Statement. There is no obligation on the employer to keep buying people. It's just a hope by the government that they will meanwhile in the UK by the government has offered to Pi- Heidi percent of employees wages provided they are retained in employment. That's the difference was Stra is offering a fifteen percent subsidy and not even checking whether you keep employing these people it just is based on March and we'll continue with six months. Meanwhile in the Yucai they'll pay eighty percent if you keep employing people it's just a joke by this government we think's going to work exactly the one would work. Yeah you know. It's just an with all those examples. Disdain for trivial honestly believed the government would be better off having the money to individuals and they ought to be You know they ought to. They ought to give the money to the individual tax payers like s elves and the Michigan also have bosses and that sort of stuff and say well. You got to close for six months. Therefore you're going to miss out on this amount of profit. He's the amount of He's eighty percent of the prophets. That you would have had you been in business for that six months you know and I also believe that Sorry no I'll let you know custodial yes. I just had copy of something from Sally McManus. He's one of the Union's sort of people and she said around the world. I am much to employers get for keeping on a worker. Earning a thousand dollars so in the UK. The employer gets eight hundred. I think Sweden is seven. Fifty New Zealand is five. Thirty five and Australia won sixteen on. So that's the difference. He it's. It's a joke for them to cy are. This is designed to help businesses employing people. It's just a it's just a sweet enough business to say here's some money. Sorry business crashed and he'll doffing else than that in some businesses will take that money and say we'll that's going to help pay for some of the losses incurred and none of it will find its way to employees so so people need to understand refute. Compare the response if you compare the response of this government to this crisis with the response of the life of government to the J. F. C. Which one was more effective and better thought through today? The money handed out by. The government was either direct to people Ordinary Australians in a cash payment or payment to business provide built something so sure they were payments to businesses but actually had to install pink batts or install I We'll build a school building or do something with. They couldn't just keep the money in their pocket so to me. That's that's a big difference Yup so In the chat room. They're talking about this ECON. Actually start up a new company and climb some of this money with a dodgy statement because it's sort of you had to have been registered as a best lodger at some point a few weeks ago in order to qualify for this site for those of you thinking of quickly whipping up of shelf a shell company in a massive employment debt in climbing cash credit from the government had thought of that before. Sorry Scott just if we can get back to the idea of lending money to businesses and not have engine having with no repayments for six months that probably makes since on the other side of the crisis. Yes when yes if it's if it's a v-shaped crisis where we're GONNA go down quickly. We're GONNA come back quickly when we're coming back up that's the Tonj actually handy up these loans to people that they don't have to make repayments on six months because that would then get businesses off the ground. Yeah Yep Yep so Just to give you an idea of how hard hearted these people are? Always watching Mad As hell the other nine and apply to clip about Christian outside this is Christian Puerta talking about casual workers. I'll just play some of that now about this comment from industrial relations minister Christian Porter when he was asked How casual workers would cope if asked to self quarantine? Many people have already made provision for that. Because of course the SA- casual employment is that you'll pay extra in lieu of those types of entitlements so the government couldn't afford saying how the current events would affected budget but Chad Jeb. Hi Fi would have and he would have put aside a little extra from his pay to say last three to six months without work they put Christian water up to that. Just for the comedy please. He's a complete tool isn't just so hard hearted. Samaniego you guys would get more than full time employees per se. You would have been saving the extra money for a Ri- need I like this? Nice people at Casual because twenty to thirty hours a week. Most people are casual because I can't get full. Tong was people. Want them casual so quickly in in I suggest just yes and then to suggest that with all that exists money that had swimming around though putting you in a while you know a separate bank account for this you just have to say you are salt complete assaults for just suggesting that. I'm the Guy Right other news we've had around. This church services were cancelled. Quite early. You'd have to cy in a slight to the groups that they were kind of slightly ahead of the Bull Gyn in terms of cancelling near events so full credit to them for that none of them really seeming to put up too much of a fight on that. But the ones you did put up a fight with a football was so it's incredible that the AFL in the NRA show police delay. I told what you're going to have to do is turn you. Yeah you cutting out. Can you turn your video off if you're using it because we're not getting video anyway? Satirical video camera off and that might help with your with your audience listener police in a bunker where units bandini outside. Sorry go ahead Paul. Okay I was just GONNA say One one of the few positives in this around virus Crisis is the the mass public admission by Church authorities authorities. That religion gives nonprotection what's however to worshippers to believe is to follow. His of any description will type. Their religion is totally. Hulo and some of the statements from church latest hilarious from the Catholic Church. Please be assured that any Catholic who contracts covet nineteen will as far as possible be assist by clergy with the sacraments and other pastoral care. Let a good. That'll do them. And the Lebanese Muslim Association announced the decision to temporarily suspend activities was based on one of the fundamental principles of his land to preserve human life. Ask but it all the time. These people think that God is looking Dan them during the service offering them special favors and applauding their efforts and and doing that. He wouldn't be allowing a virus to use. It is but it shows just the pure Holland'll their religion him that they they offer protection in love and care of the the sky ferry whichever sky ferry following an in times like these that they've forced to publicly admit that there is no protection whatsoever. It really shows what the True Religion of Australia is. That football continued long after the Chits is talked to say that way priorities are. I just don't understand. I do understand the football leagues like hides but honestly this is a big opportunity. They've reached the point. Where they're paying pliers Whitey much and they needed a reset on the game and I should have been looking at this going. Here's your chance we can actually start afresh. All bets are off and instead of getting a million dollars a season they'll get two hundred and we can actually make some money out of this gyn properly so they should've read either as quickly as possible but I put up a good fight but the football codes I disappear some clubs but the kids will come back a game. We'll come back and piles will be paid a lot lace which would probably be a good thing. the other part actually a bad that quantitative easing before I forget. What superannuation Scott Do you think? It's a good idea to let people access the Radiation Crisis. Time like this. It probably isn't. It's probably not a very good idea because I think that You know there was a there was a thing I was looking at on the news. That was just as it was the project or something like that that had a A mockup of dies industry on Ed's whether I said you know likes work for cosmetology one of them took the ten thousand dollars at the didn't and ended up going ahead to the retirement age and that guy with that didn't take ten thousand dollars. That was one hundred thousand dollars. Better off I think that Like ten dollars. Does San Very tempting rot. Now you've got to understand you'RE GONNA miss out on a hill. We'll one year when you're older. Yup He's no idea from Scott. Here's an idea from Greg. In the chat room he says can take the money out of my super and then put it back at a thousand dollars a year and getting the five hundred dollar contribution. I think he could if he took the money. If you took the money out of CPA didn't spend it but then put it back into super and get the Cocom Derision from the government. That could be a plane. Greg don't take financial advice from podcast but you might be onto something who knows. Let us let us know if that actually works. Because if you put after tax money into superannuation the government will will sort of match ULA contribution to some extent side. That could if you're allowing if not I believe you're gonNA believe. Yeah yes I believe. Also that ten dolts comes at tax free. Yeah so they got odds says so. It could be a good thing to do. Apparently Scott Morrison is making law announcement right now site if somebody's watching that at the same time looking at the screen let us know. If anything significant happens should we take bits? Is he going to announce the the closing of schools? Anybody think he might anybody he not that he might actually. He wanted. Actually knew this onto complete lockdown before two two Yeah I only looked wet and say Xanthi Greg's proposal could be text evasion but anyway we'll say don't take financial legal advice will relationship podcast podcast. Yes dear listener undercutting interrupt the live broadcast with special announcement which is a big. Thank you to the patrons of the podcast and would like to do is a little bit of time to list them and thank them. I haven't done it in detail for a long time. And so here we go Some of these people have been with us Sean is being with us. Since the fit the February two thousand sixteen. So thank YOU SEAN. Thank you thank you cry thank you John. Townsend Landon Han bottom y a Jahmai Alison see Steve Shinners. Tiny will Jimmy Spud Kinda J- Brahmin been met j Robert Whitby Raw Harris Pele medic men Dominic de Messy Liam McMahon dive Rhode Island. Daniel Curtain Harry Watson Peter Gillespie Kept Doomsday Week watcher. Andy Dowling Murray. 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So the government gives the aviation industry seven hundred fifteen million dollars bicycling by waving different fees that they normally subject to and the day after Qantas Dan. Twenty thousand acres because. That's not surprising that they did that. It's it's Buddy Creek. What they did that took seven hundred. Well it took a share seven hundred fifty million dollars and then still Dan. Twenty thousand workers and united beating their chest and carrying on a bed. How they've they've redeployed into calls and willies. And that sort of Shit you know they gonNA get paid a Shitload less calls Louise what they would have done at contests. Yeah Anyway. It's EAS- Pretty Crook. Here's the thing we should be saying. If we're GONNA offer seven hundred fifty million we should be taking equity like any Bilal up for any of these big corporate fucking lutely. We should be signed. I and seven hundred and fifty million is gonNA help here. It is and by the way we want that inches. Thank you very much and As a swap like we should not be filing at any of these companies or industries without taking the value in shares. Surely we've land that the last financial crisis and should be on. This should be other conditions like keep you work as employed now executive bonuses for the next ten years nine share buybacks Other things and tax other things like that. Say if we're going to provide money we now is the time we can put any strings on it away like we can say well. Here's the money comes with strings attached. Do you want it or not? So that's what we should be doing right Would also we got here? Oh what do people have been hoarding. Have you guys been stocking up on? Toilet paper came goods Pastor Ross anything of that I've been stocking up on Jinyu Ni- I didn't. I didn't get anything some. I felt very guilty though the other day because I was actually in the show up. So I thought I'd bet about toilet type and I already had a packing in the cupboard. So virtuous of Jesus Cross known saw that so anyway involved Scott Shine. It is very shameful that I did that. It's just ridiculous that why buying it. I saw an officer tweet where some people who have been holding have been named and shined so I just I'll give you some of the night. If you like of people who've been holding GINA rinehart seventeen point four billion Harry trick above nine point. Frank Lowy five point nine billion anthony. Pratt he'd been holding five point. Five Billion Andrew Forrest four point. Four billion people. Angry with people hoarding toilet favor but they not angry at Gina. Rinehart hoarding seventeen. Point four billion dollars but nobody else can use. Come on people get angry. Now is the time to get angry. Speaking of getting angry Tarascon say something well if we want if we want to have a universal basic income is got to be paid for. And it's going to be paid for by the beginning of town so I think now is the time to get angry. Now is the time to demand a universal basic income. And also I tell them you gotta Jana Iran hot for the money. Because if she doesn't then she's getting with a head on the spot and this is the time where you can sign to the wealthy. You need a functioning society in order to sell your widgets and if society breaks down your your mind your business your whatever it is becomes valueless. Tom Crisis as we will see in the United States of America. If you are wealthy super-rich you should see the value in paying some money to putting some safeguards so that the civilization doesn't collapse around you so you know. Some of them are actually listened to that for few minutes before selfishness kicks in. But who knows but anyway? It's it's an argument for them. So last Wednesday. I was watching. Scott Morrison give his speech Wednesday last week. It's such a long time guy and I think it was some the initial restrictions at our imposing and I I had to admit to myself he actually put on quota performance like he was very calm and authoritative and I thought he was quite impressive on the face of it as much as I can't stand the Guy Authority put on a good front. But as the weakest going on and on and he just gives you the sime stick Ivan Iv Again. It just weighs thin. Reckon people say through him more And it's the same sort of bullshit that he keeps troughton. Every time. Cy Will be interesting to see what other people think of it Some headlines in the shovel Scott Morrison defined as a non essential service and also another headline from the another piece from the shovel which said imagine making stopping boats the centerpiece of your entire political platform for ten years and in failing to stop the one that actually fucking that and I liked that one. Because that's of course. Oh dear idea. I can't more numbers last. I think we were just under five hundred people in Australia. Head Corona Vars. Yep Do you remember. That was like four hundred ninety something like that and and to today according to the IBC up to two thousand so we've quadrupled in seven days. This time next week will look at that figure out and hope that it is not idealism. could be Alison friend of the show. He's been on. She had a post on facebook from a doctor friend of hers and again. We're talking about mathematics here. Five million queenslanders the chief medical officer as as divided twenty percent of us will be infected in the first wife so that would be one million people infected off. Those one million twenty percent will need hospitalized bid for a little bit of oxygen support. So that's two hundred fifty thousand and five percent will need intensive care and mechanical ventilation. That's fifty thousand people. It's an old statistic but it looks like ways than I only had four hundred and five intensive care bids when we're talking about needing fifty thousand beds on any given day anomaly taken up with people with normal illnesses so it's hard to imagine that we are not going to have some terrible results in inhale hospital. Lord if the mets stacks up unfortunately right. I mentioned previously about the shock doctrine. Bon Ami Klein and theory that in times of shock this Cav in nineteen rhinovirus is a perfect example of shock doctrine or shocking. A shock to the system where people with an agenda can get things done while people are in a state of shock and look. It seems that there are some lifting a -tunities so we might be in a of a universal basic income sort of coming in by default in this. We've got thirty percents on employment and in these critical dies the government might just beginning mater. Almost anybody It's aims but at the same time from the right you'll now get people wanting right wing ideology pushed through in this time of shock and I mentioned before the Australian and the sort of acknowledgment by some of the writers that capitalism could take a break for wall but some of the Rosny Korea mile of some have some other ideas so paid a gleason in the courier mile sighing. That these are desperate times calling for desperate measures and he signed that this far too much red type for property developers in this time when we need developers to get this stuff going so that we can employ people and Mike Money by secretly. We've gotta give the green light to run roughshod. I have conservation and environmental protocols. He says if they break the law during construction whack them with multimillion dollar fines but we need to trust them to get on with the job. Gang was changed Psych doesn't realize that if you've done it people lying and that sort of shifted develop navient attendant living attend the fists sort of grant making to white for good times anyway but just an idea show notes in your shouting out. State was a reference to a particular development near Cleveland on Morton by in southeast Queens. I'm now the the problem with that. Particular Development was that it was going to calve off pace of Wetlands that is listed with the the global therapy on protecting wetlands for the purpose of You know having some way of for migrating birds to actually land recruits bright and now the development give a damn about migrating beds. Obviously but southeast Queensland has some of the really the best and the most volatile wetlands On these custom strategy and some local offices well to hell with the birds and and to hell with the environment. And he's he pays. He gives donations to various political parties. Here and the current state light but government is under low pressure to give in to this development in calve off of a piece of the wetlands to build his luxury residential development. Now he doesn't give a damn about the economy or about people he just wants to make money out of it. He wants make money out of taking something belongs to the whole country that is vital for the environment. And we'll never we'll never be given back of course it'll just be tycoon. And thanks very much. He'll make a profit out of it and to hell with Everybody else poll coating to paint a gleason and the curium mile. Let's approve these projects now and get the ball rolling. Most developers want to do the right thing by the environment because it adds to their project doing it the way we've done it. Forcing developers guy threw an antiquated protracted and costly environmental impact. Assessment is not the way to go forward in the new. Corona virus will that my friends is exhibited of of an attempt chuck doctrine neoliberal policy but lied payday gleason in the Courier Mail Exhibit Bay in this Robert Gut gleason in the Australian and he says webbing Hamid Abbasi's investors as they dumped currency. How bones in the shaves and he says the key reason for that is because it's trial has would wide structure psych. Hey honestly wrote an article saying that that that the world sold off ashes currency. Because I recognize that we've got a would contracts but my employees too expensive and we'll never get together after all this that is absolute rubbish. Indeed indeed they got. I've got links show nights. It's it's really decent quite can give you here. Let's this it's just it's just complete crap. Of course one thing that he is correct is that Abdullah has plummeted and d listener. The stock market again is just keeps crashing. Even before and years pool I while I was unsympathetic to your your losses and there was a time when you really might be lawsuit of twenty percent but at that point. That really puts you back where you were adding guy but I on Eric you back a bit I eat. It is tough. It's wrong and I'll never give us back. Yeah it's it's actually even worse than that like if you depends if it's if it's a shot if we gotta Dan quickly and come back up quite quickly. You could be back in the economy back in the black into years. Let's talk. Yeah Yeah but that that all depends on how quickly get vaccine and that sort of that's right and get the economy taking over again exactly? It's I fully expect. I fully expect at once. The economy gets back into some sort of normalcy the shares. Will you know perhaps lot more slightly but that will get off again? It's going to take That's key. He was correcting talking about. How currency has devalued and basically traditionally deal is not win a shock in the markets. What the people do is they simply. Shares and trump putting something that they see as being relatively risk free for a while until things settle down so often that was. Gold is one thing that was saying the stable sort of thing to have and the other one is for some strange reason. Us Treasury Bonds So a US treasury bond is where you're basically giving money to the US government and they give you an IRA. You a nice. I in ten years time. We'll give you that money back with some interest and that'll be US dollars that will give you so you give us a million US dollars now and in ten years time we'll give those million US dollars back plus might be three the same or something like that. Can that same as a cipher. If things are looking shaky that's the place to guide and probably next week we will have to have an in-depth discussion about currencies and to my mind. It's insanity to have any idea that you would put money in the US government as a safe haven people think that way but at some point you have decide yourself. These guys just print as much as they want to at anytime it. It's all about five. Money is an illusion. It's about five. It's about systems that you can trust and at some point the world is going to run out of trust and five in the US economy and this could well be the time I talked about the US very soon. You actually wind up to. It's twenty but that is a country we're GONNA have problems here in Ustralia but boy. Oh boy you would not want to be in the United States you would not want to be in New York the healthcare system as got nine chance of keeping with what's GonNa Happen in the social welfare net that is nonexistent has denied chance of helping people honestly think it's going to bright down into some sort of anarchy where the National Guard and whatever it will be flat from keeping people storming convenience stores to get food by the Thomas is alive and The idea that the the US treasury bonds a safe harbor on despite his belief in my mind but we don't accountancy fully analyzed item right before we nick's topic forgot. He is Gentleman ANZAC DIS being canceled. Do you normally can only do you. Normally get I taught normally go now regular listening to this podcast with nine that it's one of my When we will key things because I'm a bit Anzac Day ceremonies and religious. Become saying if you got typical ends die ceremony you'll be bombarded with. I very often a priest. It will be if not master of ceremonies have plenty of opportunity to get inside praise and hymns and stuff during the service. You'll often get a bible reading. You'll often get two three sometimes. Four hymns praising God all this as part of the names act is Sarah Mining and it's driven me mad for years. Scott you know a test of it's so anti ceremonies in anti ceremonies guy to be pained and somebody suggested what you could do is at dawn. You could get out onto your drive. Why we're Michio Street and staying there for a little ceremony just on your own. Does that sound your Info. It's not a good idea. It could be improved. Do you know how could be in pretty cool. Why at that moment going to your podcast APP and playing the special on fist velvet glove CICULAR ANZAC Day ceremony. While you stand in line and we're making progress we again to record something in the next few weeks where we basically gonna be of course completely secular and have some readings and maybe some poems and some thoughts or whatever and And we'll publish that as a podcast. Somewhere in the lead up to die. Had that in your in your APP and either adorn or when you wake up at a quiet mind your vehicle to sit and stand at attention or whatever you want to do and listened to an anti ceremony. Good idea or not. Maybe maybe I think it's a shame with Scott your middle of yawning as soon as I see show help people standing by themselves in the in the draft wise. Kinda WORKS LOSING. They listen to listening to a podcast yeah. So that's that's the deal is now if you've got of poetry or something that you think would be a suitable piece to let me know and if you'd like to record something let me nine if you want to be involved in any way otherwise off. Collected stuff either. Tom McRae Little Anzac Day ceremony. And I think it'd be good more information about that to come right. Let's talk about Americans could Got A batch in America. I am just you get kicked them all down. Yeah well. There's a great headline from the shovel. Which said that Mexico US trump? Hurry up and build the fucking wall so I recommend well because we are going to be clamoring Irish and trying to get into Mexico. This fake article from from the Shovel says with the wall near threes over many Mexicans were becoming increasingly anxious. We're having such a chaotic nation on their doorstep no physical barrier in a strongly worded statement the Mexican President Andrews men. Will there Pez? Obrador said he had had enough. It's Myemma they're totally out of control. What can have is thousands of Americans fling? He any consequences. We don't want to become a dumping ground for the. Us has problems. We need a proper border and we need it now. He's the fit let bill. We'll play for it. He said that is trump is getting Mexico. He's done he's actually done it. He's he's getting the Mexicans to pay for the wall right Look trump's been getting on for his press conferences and just Giving complete laws as to. What's happened what potential remedies have gone. What I've been doing it is just complete laws and one day when the books and the movies come out and we find out everything that's been going on this presidency. We will just be a pulled at what he did. End did not deemed sign. You think he's being deliberately deceptive vote. He thinks he's just clueless. He is so concerned with the stock market and making money that he is trying to pump up the market. Because he doesn't WANNA see file and he'd be looking for opportunities for his Mites to get deals in terms of supplying some of the stuff that's needed so even pushing crackpot sort of high remedies as well so one of which is a drug which is used by people suffering from Lupus and people with Lupus can get the drug because everybody's going in his truck that trump's recommended sorry pool. You're GonNa say something you saying. That trump is selling potter and CRACK FOR PAYPAL TO. Treat Lupus crackpot. Ideas would be yes. That's what he's doing crack on partner but having said that like I only have to watch his press conferences for a minute to recognize. What a Shambolic Dangerous. Manny is yet is approved writing lock that his approval rating is increasing. So fifty five percent of Americans approve of the president's management of the crisis compared to forty. Three's approve what what is for that country. What hype is there for them and of course? Now he's he's. He's pitching it as a war against the corona virus and he's also pitching it as China's fault and blaming China and calling it the virus and people will fall for this. It's just frightening main while on the other side travel. Chinese are pushing the line that the the US government deliberately carried the virus to China to infect Chinese people so it goes both ways. Let me say yes. That's true saying But ob saying trump's IOT in press conferences. I haven't seen the Chinese PSI IT in a press conference like I night trump. Yeah domestic consumption. Apparently I've seen quotes that. The Chinese in the in the local you know domestic media have claimed that the US army transported the virus to Luhan and released it to infect Chinese people so it just goes to show that we cannot trust despotic leaders from from whichever strikes Yeah I had more on America but just sorry I was just GonNa say it. It's it's a good reason why we should be nurturing humanism liberal democracy and not trusting any pal power-hungry layers from wherever they come across as we know in. America. I've got some crazy preachers and evangelists evangelical sort of nut cases running around in. I've got some clips of the sorts of things that they've been sighing so at least with their religious leaders. Here are pretty quick decided yet. Let's cancel at gatherings of people because it's clearly dangerous despite a good Lord watching. Irs as we have asked ceremonies but either in America. They're they're preachers have still been recommending. That people attend some of them have been recommending people attendances. So I've got a little sleepy. Oldest houses play that. This school is open because raising up revivalist. Not pansies yes. They're they're the rising up. Revivalist not pains. He's and they still want money from people like did big on getting the money from people so here is our pool of white asking for more money churches much not just from a humanitarian standpoint. But the greatest thing we do is bring spiritual truths that transform. What we do as Ministers Gospel is so vitally important because every single day we are a hospital to the sick not necessarily physically sick. The wheel also helped take care of that. Many churches have health centres etc. But we are hospital for those who are so sick. Those who are spiritually sick because we bring forth the word of God and we bring for truth that gets deep down in your soul now countless anymore and just a little bit more from a guy who was insisting that people still Ni- tithing what are we gonNA do. I'm getting laid off at work. Hey your job's not your sauce if it is you're in trouble onto you. Jesus is your source. Jeez whatever you do stop signing. They won't let us go to church. Well e mail it in their texts to give or something but you get your tie. Then that's church. If you take it down then drop it off in the unsticking onto the door or something you get that tie then that church you get offering in that church and then you go home and you do what we're supposed to do that man. That man currently owns at least three or four in a business jets resigned. I use tithing to Keaton filled up. That's jet fuel isn't she? Yeah it's just terrible that these guys have some influence inside in what's going on today right just quickly. I wanted to talk about Well what what are Al? When I feel is business leaders sign and Bill Gates. I think eclipse been going around. We Bill Gates. Bicycling warned of a pandemic. Have you say that at all? Never say growing say A. I think I think it's basically Him signing will a pandemic is gonNA come and we need to be prepared for it. But I've got another clip from Bill Gates. I'll just play this one full you. I've paid over ten billion in taxes. I paid more than anyone in taxes. But I'm glad to have you know if I'd had to pay twenty billion it's fine but you know when you say I should pay one hundred billion okay. Then I'm starting to do a little math about what I have left over. Sorry I'm just kidding. What do the math? And if you paid a hundred billion he's still at ten billion left like just just please beyond billion you've reached the finish line. That's absolutely stop. Stop don't get any more. That's just one billion trevor. He just wonder. Yeah exactly like Harry is off. I paid one hundred billion. I'm doing the math. Fuck if you pay one hundred billion still have ten billion lift like so I don't care about. Is that he that. He predicted a pandemic when he's not prepared to pay for stuff to actually fix the pain damage. That's GONNA come sign. Also you know. We heard lots of talk from now. Business is offering some money with Bush flaws and things like that page at the time as being to start a drop in the ocean. Tom Just to give you some idea of the caliber of the business leaders in Australia. Here is Jerry Harvey on sixty minutes. It's not the Spanish flu that killed fifty million people just after the first World War. You know why we say scared about getting this. Morris is pretty much nothing to get scared all well try telling that to thousands of Italian families in Chinese families there. We're here I should be really scared. Guess what I'm not really scared. You're in the worst category. I'm a sitting duck if you give you get. It's been snowing advisor optimism. But it's not. It's really not funny to me. I've got to be positive to i-it's of I had a wonderful life and I think the myself I'm just GonNa keep going keeps hopping on that. We could trust aid rather have billionaires deciding how to spend money because he reckons. He's bitter this bittered spending than than governments would be taxed and the governor's two-wicket AD. He wants them to do the philanthrophy because that manages of the money and they'll get a deal not guys like that place. Yeah but I think we can assume all that all business latest lineas Jerry Hobby now. We can't but he's an example. Today was just one. Yeah so anyway look what was probably probably right in in a lot of cases but perhaps not in every case of these anyway gentleman. I think the main thing that I want to get what we got through the beginning which was The is potentially a shift in the white people think about government and its role and the idea that in there is such a thing as a society and the common good and that investing in that is actually important in sort of scaling back government and and community resources. So that every everybody can operate on an individualist Level is being played out that experiment. Right now we'll see how it works and we're going to just back and unfortunately watch the United States of America fall into some sort of disdain Paean future that you'd normally any rated in science fiction novel. will say Murray Advisors Hip Jeff bezos with Amazon. As well as called for people to provide money for Amazon workers and he started a fund. The richest man in the world is asking other people to donate to a fund for his employer. He's just a good distracted. It's it'll be interesting to see this shifting society and what this means in terms of A recognition of of resources for government and for the greater good and where we end up as a result. So we'll be watching with interest I've in the next weeks as will everybody else nine. Sorry everyone that was a little bit stilted we're GONNA we're on this technology stuff and actually say the gods which makes it interesting in the meantime and if you've got any suggestions let us know and we'll we'll talk to you next week side by financial. Thanks for tuning in finding by everyone but something has to be done to try to educate the country to understand that pain and dollars to a private corporation is worse than paying five dollars in taxes. The HATRED OF TAXES. That's been engendered. Here is a remarkable fact so there's plenty of people who are scared of rising taxes to pay for healthcare for all Would prefer to pay twice that much to private. Insurers who cut them all off the pass when they need us so on. It's an astonishing fact. And it tells you something about the way. The ideological system years has fostered of the that should be understood.

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Episode 238  The Origins of Our Morals

The Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove

1:32:36 hr | 8 months ago

Episode 238 The Origins of Our Morals

"Suburban Eastern Australia an environment that has the time evolved some extraordinarily really unique groups of Hamas happiness. But today we observe are small trial akin to a group of mic that gathered together together atop a small mound to watch question and discuss the current events of their city their country and their weld at Blanche. Let's listen keenly and observe this group fondly known. How's the Iron Fist and the velvet glove? Welcome back to your listener. This is episode two hundred thirty eight of the fist in the velvet glove. podcast on trivial housed ICAI behind his with me as always elisas poll. Twelve man greetings earthlings and a regular guest Hugh Harris. Thanks for having me and Peter is back with us again. Good evening. Welcome aboard gentlemen once again for privileged white miles will explain the world you sit back and take it all in disagree so this is the podcast where we talk about news and politics and religion. Normally we talk about current affairs. What's going on in the week? This one's GonNa be a little different. We're going to talk about morality and and we're kind from and where it's going maybe and look at the history of it and really look at Cardiff. We'll do that another time next week. So we're live streaming if you're in the chat room silo already. Ross is so that's good. I think everything's working spent an inordinate number of years this afternoon and making sure that they did on never get that back again in my life but it looks like it's worked. He's impressed with the cables and equipment. Got He's a member of Emma Dean and he looks longingly at the cables and equipment. I look I have to say I am just professional was given that we've been pied once we have been paid once but the amount management you've got here puts puts my stuff to shame unbelievable the only so anyway. LISTEN UP WE'RE GONNA take you through morality and one of the reasons why we're doing. That is often true podcasts. And through the media where people talk about the Christian ethic in how. It's lucky we've got it. Because it's basically what created the civilization that we have and that we'd be essentially they'd be writing and pillaging going on in uncontrolled trawled slaughter of the masses. If it wasn't so aren't we lucky for the judeo-christian ethic and so this is the the idea that when we talk about Judeo-christian ethic what do you understand that to twelve men wasn't expecting this. The Judo judeo-christian ethic. Oh what do I understand. The essence of the Judeo Christian ethic love THY neighbor. Uh Don't offend God you go to church can sort of stuff from the Bible New Testament the eldest being the Judeo containment and the Christian New Testament de so. It's this idea that through the Bible all the New Testament we've picked up moral guidance that's enabled us to have a flourishing civilization today but the actual term Judeo Christian invention. It's only something that cropped up in America sort of post war post World War and really on the appeared in Australia. Australia in sort of late seventies something of that so it's a term that's post-second World War. Yeah Yeah Yeah so Brian Morrison. He's book pseudo secular fan little bit in there. And basically the parliamentary library had no reference to it until nineteen seventy four. So here's the theory. That basically when I talked in America about the Judeo Christian ethic really wanting to say Christian But they added Judeo as a bit of an eight as a bit of sort of an anti Semitism to avoid as an apology. For the Guy Roy yet sort of inclusive of Jewish people was the reason for putting the Judeo but in more recent times. Today are Christians perhaps a little more exclusive because it really means not that Islamic kind of not only Abraham hamming religion. That's right so originally today Christian. Well let's include the Jews and now more or less than things it's not including the Muslims is one of my of looking at. I think that's true because the sort of people are normally riding. The Christian ethic is certainly not brown people of Color. It's going to be white Christian Ciller talking the better so so in one other reason I wanNA talk about it is somebody like Jordan. Peterson talks about it. So for Old Jordan to have any Jordan Peterson fans in the room. I wouldn't Seifan but he has some interesting comments. It's on things I find his views interesting and challenging. I don't find probably the more famous us that he has particularly run interesting interesting to find his the way he explains his views persuasive. I just find it really hard to listen to. I have to say I think he sounds a little bit like go chip on his shoulder with a lot of times when he's explaining something of saint some of his Youtube lectures on certain topics and he's very interesting. I think he's very interesting about some of his books that he's written particularly about the the hero as the archetype of the hero as such a foundational additional part of our culture. He's big on stories and myths become part of our culture drawning Ou- ethics. So he would cy you too or may not think you are Christian but actually you are because you've absorbed the myths and stories of Christianity the entity and you are leading lifestyle because of that. So you're actually you've absorbed it subconsciously. Not Part of his argument. Yeah little bit of truth in that. I think there is some truth in that. But there's also the return point some truth in the fact that most Christians believe in the same thing and modern Christians. I believe in the same things that Christians believed in two thousand years ago and for instance. I had a recent debate with very prominent Christian but where we clarified that their idea of hell is not anywhere near the traditional idea of hell in fact their idea of hell has no visual representation. That don't know what what it is. I just know that they don't want to say it's Far Brimstone and Hellfire because clearly that's immoral in in the way we understand morality these so I don't think I think there's a bit of truth to both ways. So the judeo-christian ethic has in fact changed and adapted to modern standards. And also. I always take the time to be a reference to Western civilization as nice to Eastern and then I get confused as to where the Orthodox Christians videon Selena they ignored but I take judeo-christian to be this reference to Western civilization as opposed to eastern and and yes and but I don't know if it started off in that meaning that that's sort of take it now of course the thing is if the due today's Christian ethic is plagiarized ideas from before. Then it's wrong decide that we're really following judeo-christian ethic really following whatever it is that it's plagiarized from so yes that's such as the golden rule. Exactly that'd be the classic one for example so the the golden rule do do unto others as onto the origin of the golden rule. Basically that it's appeared in a number of places independently nightside aside Confucius. I didn't notice a that in the you know the Greek philosophy that we really in that there is that this idea the the concept of reciprocity has appeared in every society every human society. Yeah although I may be expressed in the same. I'm words in Van Jellicoe. Christians would argue that Confucius version of the golden rule is actually cold in the silver rule because he expressed it in a slightly different way in a negative way instead of positive way. Like don't let people do or something that would that you wouldn't like them to have done to you. Whereas bicycling it's just the concept of reciprocity? I can't Malik in. His book. said that from a few books so the quest for moral compass like Kenan Malik and he said in his book that the Golden Rule has a long history. An idea hinted at in Babylonian and Egyptian religious cards before fully flaring in Greek Nj Diet Rotting and independently in Buddhism and Confucianism Too So it's an idea that's been around a long time and and I'm going to argue a bit lighter on its ability delusion so guys back to the very repeating so we'll get to actually. We might actually agree on something to okay good so so I guess did the Jews or the Christians invent a new moral code orange die plagiarize existing moral codes. So let's look at what moral codes were around before Christianity and at the time of them so in Kenan Malik School. He starts with Greek mythology and really in the ILIAD and the Odyssey. We've got gods. But they quite what he calls capricious gods and they're very very human. These gods jealous and angry and conniving and very human in their dealings with people but APL also in that time this sort of combination where they're fighting to the circumstances which beyond the control Paul and even to some extent their emotions that they have are fighting to them that they were locked into circumstance. Today's social roles. Yes indeed a lot of the time the responses that these characters might in certain situations where responses that they had to mind they kind of were locked in through your social position meant well in this position. I must do this or I'm an angry angry man. I'm always angry and on fight to the angry or jealous and respond in this sort of manner and ah personal choice and responsibility is limited but the gods were reflections of breath aspects of human existence. Human life and again I would just like seeing Iran and they would act like a warrior yes and King God would act like a king and it's and I sit around and quarrelled and loved amongst each other as much as a group of humans would say That was the sort of the Gods Greek mythology was pulling out then so it's around the sort of eighth century. BC and around the sixth century. We start to get philosophy emerging and what constituted needed a virtuous act or A. Good law was not intuitively grasped through myth but was explicitly established through rational arguments. Out about this this time Pico people figure we can work shit out like Pythagoras these angled tryon on the hypothe- news in the square. And people want you you know we can actually start working things. Maybe we can work. It is virtue and living sort of stuff sort of evolved at that time with the Greeks so pull any favorites amongst socrates plato or Aristotle. All that's a big ask. No I don't and have any particular favorites but I was just in case. Socrates so socrates idea was that it was about asked about the examined. Life wasn't it then determining what made you happy in life. Yes yes it said. You should examine life. Is that what he said when he was convicted to be Killed because of his supposed. Heresy and disrupting Society that he said that he went. RECON the recant on his beliefs because the earnings at an examined life is not worth living. Yes and he was about how people could care for their souls by acquiring choose but the thing I like about socrates in pita. I think you'll appreciate this. Socrates was the socratic method. Yes yes so say. We suffered law school but excellent try so in it regular rug this podcast. I like to think think different. Towns are subjected people to the socratic method. Because you'll we'll come in with them once. Yeah book with with a excitement about whether or shopkeepers should sell cakes to gay couples or something then and and what I try and do Nike is say. Well let's look at some similar situations and whether you agree to sign thing so in a slightly different circumstance. What do you side? And if you change your mind really because the facts change but the underlying principles haven't been it's a bad exposing inconsistencies in thinking and trying to get to the the actual general principle let's ply. That's a really useful thing to be able to do is to sort of rise up a whole bunch of alternatives and Si-. Why do you still think the semi about this net? We change the fact slightly. Do you still think the same way about this. So you know and you can use it in all sorts of things like con as you would know you forever rowling about Americans intervention in other countries around the world. Yes I quite often the cy well here with the Americans feel. CEO of some other country was doing exact thing they wouldn't be happy with like if you're on the answer is the reason it's okay. It's because it's not them and that's not a good reason. You have to have a general underlying principle that can apply universally and when you've got that you've got something worthwhile but if it's if it's less than that it's it's it's with nothing so that's the sort of socratic method and so that was one of the great things heated socrates his socrates and the youth e Friday dilemma. Anyone familiar with the youth. Afraid That is that is What is good because God says it is good which is arbitrary or is what is good good because it is good? Yeah and so how can you how can you say what is the good. Yeah so socrates was being charged with party and he was running around sort of questioning people. That will what is godly. And what's good and you fry. Was this character actor who was a prosecutor who at prosecuted his own father. Fool killing US live. I think he'd beaten this live left him in a gutter on the sly had died. Elida something and this prosecutor was prosecuting. His own father killing live anyway so socrates thought. Well this youth is different is a good guard. Talk to him and found out about godliness and yes so he said to him what's good and he said well it's good if God says it's good but what socrates says. Well if he just says it's good sure he can't make something good if it's already bad like if it's murder for example just by God awed sign. It's good Mike. It good Anythi FRY said well. It's good and and if God identify Santa Fe as it is good and then Socrates says so that means that good must exist independently of the guns so it must be sitting there as good the gods then identified as being good and it's independent and can exist and crop separate to the gods. So what's the the point of the Gods in sight so D- agree that it's arbitrary that if just because God says something that's good. That's good so if God said You must first born son or you must torture Civilians God says that that is a good thing to do they can be good or as good something that has to be measured by more objective manner than that socrates sighing because of that example. It's clearly ridiculous. Culas decide that whatever God says good is good. You can't rely on that and 'cause God were now under the crazy capricious guys sitting around making all sorts of Funny Johny decision that was regular he so he established that morality itself Was Independent and perhaps there was an objective. Y of of reaching what was good in deciding was good. And that's the main that's a big objection to divine divine command theory. That God dictates. What is good then? God dictates. What subjective moral values? I think. That's a killer argument against so plato. I've had to get a grip on play. It seems to be among some people like the king of these Early philosophers tied defined something really concrete about the often drawer lawn. Yeah this post platonic and prepo tonic in this sort of that. Plato's this lawn people draw through history the and But I don't know why but don't you think I think it's interesting that Plato. Bicycling wrote down everything. Socrates supposedly said yes and Plato. wrote all of his philosophy plays and in dialogues between people. So you don't know for start that is that what socrates said or. Is that what he collaborated on a mighty good story out of indeed. It's a bit Lucky Bible thing we're talking about. How much of this was? Actually the word of this person and much was made up by a subsequent subsequent garage. Yeah and and sort of plight does pint very attractive picture of Socrates. So what Gild the Lily Lily. A little bit. So Plato is a direct sort of disciple of socrates. Because he's a little bit divergent he wasn't. It was taught by a couple of others and then Plato Socrates anything that he didn't write anything and he was is more like he was married but he didn't have any particular occupation and he is to stand in the public square and debate paypal and MHM bicycling a bit of a nuisance. The we'll get to where we get to the Christianity point isn't plied. Are The point where we get this idea of this spark of virtue in everybody and surrounded by the material world. Certainly there was a character called Thrust C matches touches. who advocated naked self-interest because he said the ruling CLOUZOT screwing every body when they tell you to behave yourself go out there and do whatever alike implied I'd say nine NYC itself interest is bad for you and is unhealthy for you so you shouldn't conduct yourself with just naked self interest so he didn't really explain why much beyond then it's unhealthy to do that? I didn't really come up with great moral reasoning for it but that was kind of is that it was a form of mental disease Eh unhealthiness. You might be happy if you do. That was kind of his reasoning. But at least it was one of these things of tight pete so self interested and even tonight. There's many reasons as Jesus did today. I mean you can have you know. Go to court and things on that you can talk about judges will legitimate self interest but not just self interest and self interests not be argued to charge twice everything I deliver and I'm not going to pay for anything else. AQUA KWA myself interested in legitimate self interest is will are required by by anything more than what you voted for and things. So so you're entitled to yourself interest but it's going to be legitimate judges stugotz either today and I think that's consistent the other thing. He was famous for that just with finishing ovid. Plato was the hierarchy of preferred governments. So his idea of the best form of government was in stock. Assi second was a military dictatorship. Titus ship wasn't oligarchy. Great and then there was a democracy which only ranked above tyranny is this republic. Is this take time. So that's because he had this view that Common people are driven by SARS soldiers have a yearning and for honor and rulers have purposes to look for reasons so headed very sort of a class segregation was. He hid early interest. He was heavily influenced by spothero throwing the records on the spot and cultural the success that had the and that was a military style society. Yeah Spider was what Nazi Germany as something described it as it was very authentic authoritarian. But okay so the the great the Athenians were into this developing this idea of all of these philosophers Socrates Plato Aristotle with definitely that what you have to do is to be for the benefit of the politics which is the city state. Sort of thing your your actions must be favorable label for a city but they were certainly freer than the spartans. Because the spartans were very rigid in your commitment to Sparta and your roles were extremely rich in their region and there wasn't skype for any personal liberties buddies in the spot. And what will say in and that sort of comes to the Nub of part of our philosophy discussion is how much are you committed to the group and the community and how much free will to do. Your individual libertarian. Thing and does does free will actually exist not this episode but it is a relevant question yes at the base of if it'll indeed it is later actually doesn't the Christian tradition. Is this idea of free will. Isn't it more than the Greek. I think it's essential to it without. There's there's really no punishment or reward if there's no real free will well we digress. God knows everything you're going to do. Anyway what are the running this experiment like because you really had no freewheel. Because he knew you were going to do that anyway. Or maybe new. You're going to exercise. Your free will in such a way than what conduct the experiment if the results already choices a statist. Yeah Yeah but we digressed and we'll just finish off with aristotle and his idea was a state of human flourishing. That's let's with seeking and by Szekely. If you have if you conduct yourself the curiously than happiness will come as a byproduct of that and that's something I've read about in recent times when people talk about. How can you be happy in the answers? You shouldn't be pursuing happiness. Such if you'll conducting inducting life in a meaningful way. Then happiness is a byproduct of that more. So that was kind of Aristotle's view it and he also had the sort of acorn theory that an icon purpose is to grow up and become an Oak. So things have have a purpose and I have a meaningful existence if they achieve their obvious surface aristotle so just briefly before we get onto the Christians after those three million Greeks we had one little period there of stokes telesystem awesome stoicism as early as. Yeah and this was the idea of sort of accepting your fight liked and this is important for Christianity is exactly yeah certain idea that I got a terrible terminal illness medicine fix well. Don't want about at this point except that and deal with it as you can but kind of Accepting whatever fight throws at you that you can't deal with just accept it and move on within that. I like this line. I'm from keenum Alex's book so this Guy's Zeno was a stoic and he was once flogging a slide as you do and good stolen some goods. He's in the slide said but always fighted to steal a in. Encino said yes into be beaten as world the very story response can be a bit. Yeah but that that sort of STOIC acceptance of the situation was important for Christianity down the track adopted that and also they kind of opened things up to the Christian idea because they really stopped talking about. What's your role Paul in terms of promoting the community and the pulse of? How do you feel about law and think about yourself inwardly and that then? I've been Christianity with people have in a relationship with God and forgetting about the community as such not having to think about promoting the city state so so that's the sort of lead up to To the Bible period we get too and when we get to any pronounce at the back the GT trek. So what Tim. So there is a group of people who've basically come up with this idea of a God who commands what you. What is Roy and what you need to do? And don't you think about it because I've written a Dan on these ten tablets and your job Albee's just to do it and not to think about it. And that was the sort of movement in Christianity and Judaism awesome which struck me as sort of a backward step from where we were. It's sort of comical. Isn't and that that Moses also when up on top of the clouds or the mountain and negotiated this with God for forty days and forty nights negotia shouted it he will. He was up up there despite. What was he discussing for forty? He was like Humanities Union. Rip Up there discussing it with God. And then he came down and smashed all the tablets and and then executed three thousand people. was that deliberate or an accident. Smash the tablets or did he spent. He'll get back up. Take this story. I really sick misbehaving when it came back took so long worshiping worshiping the golden commercials. That was the involving the golden calf but the original Tbilisi had to smash pissed off with them. Is that wrong back up again. Because they were practising dollar tree by making audibles and I hope you had a good story forgo sharing but it certainly took a long time but it's a covenant Avenue again for the for the Jews important they were making y'all I was making covenants with these places agreement so I suppose negotiation. Yeah but that always covenants between you and his people yes I doubt. Many religious paper would accept my union rep example. Muhammed negotiated a guy she added. I'll tell you story many times so five prayers that the Muslim everyday initially. God said it's fifty going down to Muhammad haggled would burn down from the low level to the lower level. And I think was Abraham who said to him Hemi praise. Did God tell you to get your people to sign. Should fifteen at all prayers are weighty matter guy back up and get it reduced went. Went Back Up. Had it reduced a forty-five kind down signed thing. He said now. Go back up again. And this repeated itself until we got the under five and then Sorry State Abraham told you I think Abraham Abraham was long dead but he's in heaven knows isn't Asia's if he's in heaven stages of Mohammed actually went up to heaven. Evan Yes yes on the journey when he was on the half new donkey on the wind blowing the golden ladder with Gabriel pass through the levels of heaven and when he came back with five still Abraham said. Look that's too many in and Mohammad said Milwaukee feel too embarrassed to go back and so that's why it's down to fall outside. He handled. That is a good story. That's only here in the imagine. How much praying that would have been doing? If stuck stuck with fifty prying getting so they seldom get much done anyway even with the five. Yeah so so the tablets into a chest cool the ark of becoming. Its way into the temple that they built up and the temple was sacked sect. The First Temple temple was destroyed by the By the By the Lennon's serious salute the first congress. I think the Babylonians was the second a neither Babylon's the first time that Simmons Simpleton October five eighty seven BC. And I guess at that point the tablets lost years of Roy Moore and found again spill found. Go down the mix there that time. Then basically a loving exalt to Babylonia with all of them but his son. They seems to be accepted that they was Jewish. juicing in Babylon went from that area and then eventually Babylon Babylon fell and the the Persian server innocent Jews then returned and met up with the Jews dude stayed there correct in the Jews who had been away and came back. We're far more rigid and tough on religion ruling rule belt rules. God who would stay there. So the guys who had died doing things like marriages where Jews were marrying non-jews and things and the Jews who would bring them Babylon. He came back and I said what the hell are you doing. You can't do this now. The marriages and It's often the case that people who are in a sort of a diaspora become com more conservative than the people actually in the original community the culture that strict with sort of Islamic group seen scene primerica and whatever get into a little close community and can be a lot more sort of rigid in their thinking than the communities. Back home so that you know what's happening mansion. What like it'd be like if we went to live in another country for few few generations We'd be all very strict about wearing songs studies. So which is Kenan Malik Hefty Pedal. That's kind of quieting. What can sign really bad about that sort of idea that I wanted to? Why were much much more conservative than the one they stayed behind? Saudi goes. Think it's a knock-down argument. Then against this sort of judeo-christian thing thing that we need to have. These Prescriptions for morality that what happened to the Jews and Ola Civilizations Nations and cultures before God delivered those ten commandments and all the other commandments. The three hundred and fifty in the Bible if there was is any need for him to do so must we have had no morality prior to that will. Let's the point. Isn't it like there's some really marvelous civilizations that were Eric caring people were able to cooperate and build amazing civilizations to the Bible do things started by the Jews and we've got the whole of Asia. Who never he is of price stores question because okay? I was thinking about asking initially when you started off on the history. We use suggesting that there's a point where the isn't a discussion of morality in rotting. Zo will that that it emerges at a particular point in Western history. He's there appoint what I'm saying is that is that the original all jus really an assembly of the stories. The Tie had gathered from various tribes who coalesced and became that tribe in that area and these are just historical stories that are gathered together in the same way that the Odyssey and the Iliad with a historical stories that were then gathered together. Internet y when people start to get organized and could ride things they vice. I start to bring. That was something I took from the book travel where Kenan Malik says the Iliad and the Odyssey gave ancient Greeks a set of the history and the foundation stone of the culture and it established a moral framework for their lives and the Jews sort of did the same thing with their old missing stories gave gave them a sense of nationhood in a sense and one book that I read which is called the Bible on Earth. You guys know that one should read it. Very interestingly I think it's a Meta analysis of the archaeological work done in the cycle holy lands of the last couple of hundred years And what they decided. was that the the Jewish Bible. I don't know what you want to call it. The collection of Jewish holy books was actually assembled built by one particular King Josiah. I think he's in the seventh century BC and a night night claimed that he actually assembled all the various stories and myths and books as a particular political project to give the disparate tribes that he was trying to pull together as a nation to give them a sense of their own history and their own identity and nationhood nationhood. According to Malachy says the children of Israel who I Rela Dean Keenan would probably marginalized and dispossessed nobre nomads. Who who had roamed the third wall cresent I have a time? The Patchwork of tiles became stitch together into a single narrative of common history and shared Gods and the original settlers had arrived kind sometime in the first half of the second millennium BC and the various kingdom or various tribes were united. You're a single kingdom boy soul his successes with David and Solomon who extended. The borders Solomon built the temple that was eventually destroyed. Destroyed cy in the Sinai that the Odyssey and the Iliad was collection of stories roundabout dawn. The TANAKH was is a collection of stories of tribes melted together. That's yeah no basically just a disparate group of tribes. They were a single self identified group of Jewish people at that time That was that was a political creation. Yeah so the thing that Judaism was that basically Gold's bicycling had to be ferociously. Suppressed like doc really prod to that. There's a lot of polytheism Moran we live and let live Ikea. You've got your dog. God He he really KS. But it sort of brought about an era where you're dead set wrong. If you've got another garden on not happy that you've got this. Other gods that was part of the hull monotheism thing that kind China debt with Judaism unfortunately some Dada so rather than thinking about morals and virtues and trying to work at we sort of regress to step into will hear. The stories lied day on. And you've got to follow what God tells you. If you're going to Michael Mike you'll lie to heaven and originally heaven wasn't really a concept for the Jews was more you again to get your reward would on this earth but once they started to get really badly persecuted they started to see that people were suffering and would getting they just rewards side. I started developing concept of Heaven as an after law because clearly really good people with gallons from a terrible time and we're not getting recycled rewards and our suffice to be home sizes of the video testament doesn't mentioned hell but the New Testament is is the the kingdom is to be on it. Is that what you understanding. Jewish thought evolved over. Tom On definitely evolved over time. But there's no there's no hell there's no. There's no devil in the Old Testament this early Satan sciences slightly different in character. But but it certainly evolved. I think about but but by the time of Jesus then there was this light and dark good naval sort of thing evolving but gerbils just Kabaka pointed at the the the Jewish law though it comes back to this idea of a covenant that that. I don't think it's guarding posing your to do this. He didn't say I'm taking control. This was a D- I think it's always understood. This is a bargain. These covenants Moses on behalf of his people say I've agreed with the ally and if you've up hugh abide by these laws then God will protect you and God is on your side. So it's it's awesome muster this position as a as a covenant or in other words enterprise bargaining agreement. If you'd like well did you. The chosen people of God Sorta we certainly chose them but there's always covenant spring made and he said I will be your God you will have no other God of the but this is the deal is a deal but it's not chosen you and you have. No scientists gained this constantly throughout all tested uncovered inspiring made so so. Is it a choice if if your believe if you believe what God is than. Is there really a choice thing. Our thanks God for the offer but think about just reject that into stone for the consequences the realities you brought up in a religion. That's just your religion so you follow those rules. But but it. But it's not in position the theory is that it's it's still a covenant between Moses on behalf of these people the our fund covenant is New Contract Agreement in agreement basically For example Jesus is his his his new covenant was upon his death. This is is my body. This is my blood upon my death will make the new covenant and you have a new path to heaven was coming out of the New Testament. It's all old the it's all sort of pro quo. That was an is. This is a haggling and and it's it's a cultural thing as well but the point I'm saying is that it's not a bad virtual morality. It's about you'll do this so you can achieve someone so reward and you don't do this Hell awaits you. It's about a billion isn't it. It's not about examining your life and deciding whether you're a good person it's about. It's not about moral raising abstract reasoning as to. What's what's true it's about a bank? The Laurie is great. Yeah this real sense of genuine altruism wisdom in these religions because it's always a case of if you do these things you will be rewarded in some sense. I do not auto you shall not kill. You can't just say let's just a rule let's not think about. I mean that's A. Do you really need to think about that as requiring we needed we needed. Do we needed on the commandments. Rose you really think about that. It's being immoral. That's really getting at the point that that the sort of guidelines or moral virtues of doing these things loving your neighbor turning the other cheek etcetera are all put forward in Christianity. At least that by doing so you enter heaven so it's not really a l. true altruism is doing something where there's an expectation you might not get anything in return and all hope concept of Christianity's. There's a return here if you do. If you do these things you'll that's exactly right and that's the irony though isn't what what is so appealing about Jesus's message is the selflessness us of the sacrifice of it and the you know the Charity charity and doing things right turning the other cheek. I've been loving your loving your enemies. So you're only doing it just so you can get award in the end so as Mother Teresa around the doing all that work so she realized realized that she was a terrible woman. Okay well he's got you on that. Mother Teresa was into suffering. He really wanted people to south that she was suffering. Fetish is a terrible terrible mother. Theresa was named Theresa against another story that Agnes and she got. She got her treatment at it The one of the finest medical institutions in America while at the same time instead of buying drugs for the people who care she sent the money to the Vatican Bank. Naef Jeff as possible my research. I was reading some bitter and Russell and he was explaining that it was toby. Times James around the period where Jesus died and What was going on at that? Time and people were looking for comfort in a religion and one of the problems with Judaism was circumcision out and a restricted dot. In what you see things you could eat this and and according to Bertrand Russell that made it really difficult to promote today's but Christianity was the sort of sect if you like originally the Jesus sect of of Judaism and Guess Swat. You didn't need to be sick and so I like because I originally said when Christine I think I think that the poorest word for centuries is that right or have come. I'm back into favor. Poll is very strong on that. That was the distinction the circumcised and the uncircumcised see. I said two weeks the only talking. What a great salesman? Paul was like he could sell eskimo ahead and take into account the greatest in the world. You could say you can have all of this religion stuff. We went after to face of foreskin like that's a controlling it selling proposition. That was a unique selling point that he had and so he doesn't require it so nine. He came back to body lighter because as you know is led he. He continued to write to his churches. Reminding them that it wasn't. I just love God and place yourself still rules that he thought you should have by Ekit writing lettuce. We'll you still have to do these things. But but he's stripped away. A lot of the strict observance servants the James Record. That is easy to become a Jew. I become a Christian. You can be Jesus was a path to even in for the gentle. Yeah so so point one. Is that a lot of what was in. The Bible was basically a rehashing of store reason. Myths that had developed by generations of people prior to that and a lot of it was ideas that people had been thinking often using humans were corrupt cooper writing and getting along for tens of thousands of US creating all sorts. It's of civilizations very happily with Christianity and continue to do so in areas where the Bible was completely unknown. So the other point in this is that when you looking at the Bible is the so many contradictions in terms of the moral concepts and what to do and what not to do that. It's not like you can pick up the Bible and just follow it. You still have to pick and choose and decide I helped the beat. The bottle will be completely contradictory. And you have to say. We'll I'M GONNA choose one or the other. So people are still making their own moral choice when they're following and uh Cycle Bible edit because there's another alternative in there somewhere in the Bible. Let's the problems of such an inconsistent. Documents is so so. That's all that part and want to get on to was was beginning for Tom was he. Here okay probably about forty minutes something like that so let me grab another book. The goodness paradox strange relationship between virtue and violence and human evolution by Richard Wrangham. Saying there's a good book. There are recommended to read the. Yeah so what this book says is he's looked at the evolution of of mankind and basically he said that human beings when compares to other animals now closest knives chimpanzees and things that we're extremely low on on hot reactive aggression so if you look at a group of chimpanzees pains as now whack each other at the slightest provocation all even without it like they continually bickering and fighting a niggling each other's is so hot. Aggression can happening all the time in those communities where human beings can put three hundred overseeing a little saadane and flies across the country. And we'll nine hundred behave and just get on with each other and Rockstar or tennis play. The this is sort of a unique capacity of human beings. Is that when it comes to that sort of hot aggression reacting with extremely low on that we have a capacity for plan digression Shen so we can coldly calculate to invade another country and send bombs and do things of that of that nature. But that's sort of hot reactive. Live aggression with extremely on. That's one of the unique features. And he makes an argument that human beings jeans have become domesticated some hail. And that if you would compare us with yeah I ancient ancestors it would be like comparing a household household dog with a wolf and he explained to domestication process where there's these characteristics wchs of domestication that occur and by sickly our bodies become smaller miles become less mile l.. In more feminist scouse get smaller jaws and teeth gets Mola. You'll see on sort of rules and primitive dogs. They've got a long snout but in a in a domesticated species the SNIA gets more sign with human side. There's a lot of the features of the domestication occasion of a wolf into a dog that have appeared in human beings. And there's a Ryan other sort of biological factors you you can get into one of the things these. What are these? These sales he talks about I might skip dive. That gives a really good argument. As to the fact that somehow human beings became domesticated and and he asks how did that come about and his Ansari's that at some point when humans could communicate you had to overcome the The the idea that an aggressive Alpha male gets whatever he wants is really hard to sort of stop like you see it all the time. In the Animal Kingdom these bullying Alpha Miles just reek havoc in a community and Cape the Alpha Mile subdued and very little cooperation because of the Alpha male dominating and A. and essentially when human beings reached the point that they could communicate. We had the idea of whispering by two miles so biter miles could get together to get inside. That goes a real asshole. What's oldest jump on him killing corporation? Yeah and so. He says that you've got sort of work yet to reasons why people become cooperative. One is this idea of a cooperative. Group in Warfare. Will beat an uncooperative group. So a group full of altruistic cooperating individuals warfare scenario will out at the sort of squabbling squabbling masses of uncooperative ones and so then now that breed them because win the battles and now. They'll sort of that encourages altruism altruism. They'll turn if theories that within groups. You have the whispering by two miles or the gathering together and knocking off disruptive super aggressive Alpha Miles and he gives compelling reasons as to why that second one is probably the most likely scenario look at primitive hunter gatherer situations nations. When going to sort of war against heater to trump's there's no incentive for somebody to be particularly altruistic and at the head of the law if you like like generally the skirmishes with people try not to get hit and if they do? They ran at once. One person's killed night. So it's sort of trade or whatever There isn't actually a reward forbidding altruistic in that sort of scenario there isn't anything and compelling so gives other reasons as well so but the audio the whispering vita miles that does happen in primitive society guy through Africa and places that were there are still together cise by the way he makes the point that studying them them for years as he did it just like these people back in England. As far as he was concerned I pay the head. Lovers had Powell conflicts the had fun and in Games they just conduct themselves the wine most human beings to do it in a dirt heartened in a different environment but basically hunter gatherer societies without the benefit. NFL The judeo-christian ethic basically conducted themselves as the way you would expect us to do if we were thrown into the same situation But getting eating back to this idea of this execution hypothesis that the groups managed to domesticate mystified by bumping off the super aggressive or troublesome characters who were causing problems albums for the community and so that that the dilution ARY selection loss would've got rid of more of those Alpha males small towards a domesticated version of the mile. That's right the aggressive SUV. Alpha Miles went braiding in. Because I'm involved off did pushed off the ice and the more cooperative pro-social biter miles with the ones he managed Easter break. And would you believe Charles. Darwin talked about this. So Charles Dow was anxious to provide an evolutionary explanation for positive moral behavior because he recognized that we had it and it didn't really really seem to make sense that we we do. have this positive moral behavior people at the time trying to say it was a blessing from God and and Don was saying well. I can't rely on that because the whole thesis is is not having to engine bodyguard in this whole process talking about so he was looking at what were the reasons. And he said that We just found. Take that off with me. One second so he had to explain it without the influence of religious things and he observed that in contemporary societies he called the malefactors. People were pie in the US who were stealing killing healing raping malefactors in assault. He's there either executed or imprisoned so he could see that in modern societies we can deal with is people and get out of the system but he recognized that they didn't have that capacity of imprisonment in primitive societies and so he recognized prehistoric societies martyr. Found someone is too harshly deal with violent and quarrelsome men and if exceptionally aggressive men will allies routinely punished in wise that reduced their reproductive success there would have been a owns of prehistory in which the calling of violent men could lead to evolutionary Asian rechange. Endow conclusion was forthright. The morality problem could be solved by Anton System of execution leading to the radicalization of selfishly immoral individuals individuals which would lead to selection against selfish tendencies in five or of social tolerance through this kind of natural selection. He wrote quite quite the fundamental social instincts were originally thus kind so he actually put this opposite theory he also put the other theory about. You mentioned this before and that was the one that sort of got the attention but Richard Langman says he really likes the first theory on this execution style thing so and really that comes down to then not only would you had to. Then there was the pair of the a group could control you. If you didn't tell the line so as a member of a group remember if you were ostracized out of the group used is that was a death sentence and so part of air moral system that's hard wired into into loss is to do an acting wise that wind see us booted out of the group or White Sega's executed for being assholes. Yeah sorry would you necessarily die if you doubt the grip I suppose if you're an Eskimo our back living at some point so if you were living in a in a warmer rage and you're a good hunter you'd still survive but you wouldn't reproduce because you wouldn't have perhaps it's still need still still need the batons we couldn't hunt Gaga's predators and injury. You know you break a leg. You'll we'll do it anyway but you know you might be careful but injuries you must be a way. Yes you your prostate very low. There'd certainly loud were so what we get down to. Is that a lot of their reaction to sort of moral questions can actually be blind boy having been parade into us. I've evolution as a means of staying in with the group. Not Saying execute acute accent quarrelsome and so looking at things like Good Samaritan. Why would would we help somebody who's not in native air? We could just walk past them and then it really sounded doors rewarding like that but when I've done things a lot of ABS as a small children and put them in scenario is of a like a good Samaritan top situation small children will naturally. I try to help out even against the instructions of of adults like it's inbred in us. hardwired Oy to some extent we behave in certain wise without any training at all cultural offer male parents so so and some of this inbreeding can help explain our reaction to some ethical dilemmas. Here you and the classic trolley problem is trolley hitting down there the track. It's going to crash into the five people you stand there and there's a lever that you could switch the trolley onto a different track where all kill one person. Do you allow the trolley. Continue on its wine or do you switch it and only kill one person sign according to studies most people. Oh let me see ninety percent. PULL THE LEVER TO CY five and kill one. Anyone disagree with that anything thing probably likely I mean you might even be sitting here in most of us would say got a pool and then you go to the bridge Fatman. Yep Now now the organ donation. Okay say you've got somebody you've got five patients who are all going to die Nine organ transplants. You've got one person who has all the necessary. Organise organise should shoot. You cut up the healthy person industry but the organs amongst the five to save and the answer is that naughty five percent would not agree to such an operation would do you you. Did you know that the person with the five taking it ah him. Raleigh has a theory that the nuclear codes for the countries with nuclear weapons. He said that at the nuclear cage should be inserted into the chest of the vice president and if the president wants to use them he's got a he's gotta grab a knock and cut. I kissed to get to them because if he's not willing to do that but it shouldn't be willing to drop a bomb that's going to kill millions as a favor. It was interesting so but so charlie problem on the face of it on the facts is kind of the same situation. Kill won two CY farve and on one avenue we take a utilitarian approach coach think yes the laws the general good And on the second one we take the D. onto logical principle which is right and wrong are absolutes. It's really intuitively. Pick those without good clear moral reasoning as to why when when you say the humane because the principle that killing is wrong correctly. You must apply that principle correct digit with the trolley because he switched to the Alabama seems fair with the trolley. One you're not directly killing somebody indeed just redirecting fighting a sense whereas in with the it's a transport certificate differ different ethical dilemma because your action is completely different. It's for instance. It's a different ethical. We're getting hands dirty. Get instant now you. You're you're also. It's a Simla. Different thing to administer euthanasia by lethal injection by by the one person pressing the Bun than it is to kill someone with a knife. It's a different moral thing. Because he using in different method. Boom one is more horrifying more painful. Well this guy has a theory that a lot of our actions are based on. What will the group think of us in this situation Wayne need to be? We need to have some plausible deniability if the AGGRIPA taxes for real action so so we have some inherent in us. He calls and inaction bias which is to do nothing and in Kalisz flying a solid effect bars whereas it's not so bad if the result is something of a side effect in a non contact attack boss meaning most people preferred action which allows them to avoid touching someone who is about to be harmed. Who is this God Rangeland in this book? And so what. What he's saying is that way? hardwired into us. If we're GONNA do something board align need I need to have a plausible excuse for our community that I want to say out or kill us does. He says in relation to the trolley problem and its various paradoxes. Paradoxes Guide the example trolley problem organ donation and on the one hand. If you're standing there covered in blood to the body of a person. He's had their organs. Rip Dat tired of to explain to your group. I thought I was doing the right thing by that because I think all of us would have an implicit implicit reaction that we know. We know that we're comfortable with the lever action. But we know that we're definitely uncomfortable with ripping someone's organs air but he's saying that's been it's not just because NYU why unite it's gut instinct. He signed and he's got instincts combat because of this most of this evolution. It's a sign that when you get when you do commit a social part and you feel embarrassed and you just have this terrible feeling in you got any advice advice guys read and it's like Oh did I really go against the social norm here in I feel really bad about it like that's an uncontrollable double gut instinct. That is a preservation sort of thing that has been hard wired into us through and he signed the the reason why you chose the trolley but didn't choose. The operation is hard of that hard wiring that a lot of their moral. Oh some of their moral decision making that we can't really explain that's really on instinct is less the PORNOS. It's always GONNA be reasons. It's that that reasoning that you have to say why. Why is it heck on rationalize this stemming from A to B because it comes up in legal theory as well this idea that I'm like this things like some laws say you're not driving excessive speed limit? That's just straightforward. The question is did you. Were you driving the car will were you in existence speed limit but there's other things done drive dangerously and they to do with this ought you drove and it's not your personal opinion. It's it's this idea that there is a community community that there is a kind of kind of driving that but how do you rationalize at the police say. That's dangerous driving. You can travel like that and what they're doing. Is they sign. I reckon that arrest you for dangerous. Driving other people will agree with me. We know that's dangerous. The judges doesn't say will officer. What did you think authors digital? Oh that's the individual. The judge has all. We've got to judge this so it's the community standards. There's a community standard day that it ought to happen and we have the rotten in courts right now than this idea that will. It's gotta be addictive and you'll have a reason for it and the reason is just that the community would people think what would raise bandic modernized to say. You shouldn't be doing that. There's a law against that and if you don't have a lower against that people get really really upset. Is that why when the offices stops you and the first thing thank you says to you is do you have a lawful reason for exceeding the speed limit. Because that's what I said look because the community INCI well if you're rising to get your pregnant wife that's that's right that's right. If you refuse to pay the fine then you take it to court. The officer has to be able to explain that he gave you the opportunity to assist tonight. But if you have two reasons they often based on a community value which is Iraq and other people would agree with that. That's you shouldn't be doing that so that happened today. So we saw it just looking at current Howard society mentioned previous podcast called whispering by the miles something or other. Is We've got some Alpha males in the world right now. I don't have the joint like it may all end of prehistory. We would've said you'll get in too big for your boots and in primitive societies particularly indigenous brothers and sisters in Australia. If you killed a large animal something it was not the done thing too bad at lying you had to keep your head down. You didn't WANNA pop your head above the parapet and be saying to be too big feeds because the whispering vitamin pills and sign a night. Tiny down a bit above station indeed so in modern world. We've lost the ability to chop down the Alpha Miles and We need to start doing fire wealth tax none of physics assist actually down. But that's for another topic eating and so just sort living title. Upton is really when we're looking at sort of moral code that went into Greek philosophy and into the Bible's levels which really Kinda bad largely three myths and legends sort of rights. Wrongs were being developed in an evolutionary sense. Human history all the wide leading up to that and these things. That people have intuitively decided is what's wrong or wrong well before it was written a book entitled. That's the case when needed somebody collects league. Give a rational explanation because they got by new hard wide. I shouldn't be cutting person for an operation that I can flick. Charlie Lever Davis which yeah so. Jonathan Heights has wrote about that pretty extensively book with the righteous this mind about the foundations of morality all suggesting that morality is instinctive and has cy five dimensions to short. Ron and I think that's a very very persuasive argument. So psychologists and his viewpoint has been very popular a very Embraced follow people of cut down the five things so the five foundations are say. Care Care and harm. FINIS cheating Loyalty Betrayal Authority subversion and sanctity degradation and then he added a six one which was liberty versus oppression That famous and chatting one one of the one of the studies I do is the AH the ultimate on game wave got a person who's got ten dollars and they can decide. Had they going to split with another person in the other person can either reject or accept their offer if they reject the nobody gets anything if they accept then the office accepted. The person's got ten dollars and says well all split. Fifty fifty person is is of the ten dollars I agree to split fifty fifty person but he will invariably say well. That's fair like except the deal and we're done and they do these experiments with people with a kind of and see each other And I think you can get down to seventy thirty or something like that. Where personalities on keeping seventy on the thirty but below that level people who are on the offer twenty percent say stuff it? I'm not even going to take the twenty. I'M GONNA make us both loops. There's a sort of sense of fairness finis and I can do that. Test with Kalahari Bushman and with Goldman Sachs bankers and everything in between and we tend to come up with the same result as hardwired sense of pain and yeah sounds like a divorce settlement. Where one party says I'm taking ninety percent? You can have ten. You've you've got your car off your guy you know. Yeah sorry we got into because of this. Yeah except in the in this scenario when the person basis now it means neither gets anything you bring the hall and people are prepared. Hey to accept all get nothing on really cost will either. That's true that's true. I mean if you had a situation where there was an offer the family court settlement of GonNa give you ten percent for example. Somebody would say well buggered. All all in Lincoln causes. That's that's right and that's actually happens right so there is a famous Yeah so given all that and it seems seems like We're all sort of seeming to agree that morality might be instinctive and it perhaps derives from our our evolution in living in communities. And there's also the idea which has been very well established studies on children that children as you were saying before four tend to have a sense of fairness nobody the Good Samaritan they they have a sense of what is right or wrong without being told Wolf and argue with an adult correctly as to what the right or wrong thing is then. How does that then? In your opinion Mary with the idea of moral reasoning. And why is all of this philosophy about what's water wrong and what objective moral values because trevor you and I have argued extensively whether objective moral values actually exist like moral truths do they exist. Many people say that they do so. How does that? How does that even marry with reasoning about morals? If morality is basically derived from what's instinctive anti-hiv and then ask societies are individuals and our cultures. Just manipulate a few say in John Heights example five different modes roads of morality reasoning is based only on extinct. Things had that instinct is usually geared towards woods promoting the community like generally. Yes but I think there's only based on survival value and what has selection like shouldn't bother us. Yeah but those sorts of things that are hardwired into us kind of things that promote the community at large so that one person doesn't get everything we'll get doesn't get an unfair advantage. It's it's a communal type enforcement is is to me and humans a unique in that we actually enforce these things because when I look at chimpanzees and one chimp might be cheating on another team in terms of like stealing food or even beating up other teams were. There's no enforcement Kabbadi other chimpanzees of of any morals amongst them humans unique that we're watching and observing and with sighing. You'll transgressing housing. I community ethos with pulling you up. So I think a lot of these inbuilt instinct of things that we have a designed to Cape community harmony and community flourishing and not let one person dominate ORTEIG. I more than a fair share. Sure I accept all that can give me the socratic questioning dotted that bring bring it back. But if it's just a community hacking we have objective moral values because also probably disagree that chimpanzees have their own moral codes in their own societies societies. For instance. They will they will punish transgresses and I will also patrol the territory and other chimpanzees for mother rival tribes. If they've found wandering chimpanzees will hunt them down and kill them. That's that's a tribal for protection of area but the first part you mentioned aged debt pulling up transgresses within the community not really so that's not correct but was the question before that you say if our moral values then are entirely derived from essence of community. How can I be object hacking be objective universal moral truths and then if they were only subject to our so only apply to humans for instance apply to any other animal forms? Even if there was another group of very human-like being somewhere in the universe. Yeah Yeah I think that big philosophical question about these things made by humans or other natural arena join. That's what objective moral truths that they must be true but that doesn't that big question is he's got some natural source like it's this comes from God or these sort of things. These are. My people. People have morals animals. We'll have something else so I think a different species live something else. It's it's created by people it doesn't come from some thought that was discussion as I would. I would absolutely agree with what you're saying. Not Coming from some external natural source it eats mayb people make these things. Yeah I would agree with that but then you get people who are also Security ideas such as Sam Harris. Who would say that? There are objective moral values and you can measure them scientifically you can say. What is the the best situation for sentient creatures? That's what Sam Harris argues. So head of Sam Hires argue the the organ donation one. I'm not sure if he's addressed that specific question because I'm sure that's like the Leiva but I just he's consequentialist and you know his moral landscape argument that you should be out a measure scientifically the good overall good and the marquis several different equal parts. The good is so he would probably agree to the operation by the sounds of it. Because he's got that full-on UNITARIANS WHO AM I. I'm not sure because he would. He would say eh the intentions and the actual act of whatever you do a part of the moral consequences of his basically a consequentialist philosophy. A part utilitarian. The short answer is I don't know but we're not worked at the meaning of life. You'll be the first. I was hoping we would get to it in this episode but many the of life in Salvador but perhaps another Tong Yung saying so. Yeah so that's my sort of knowledge and theories on evolution Shen and trevor is our Western civilization would have been just as good. Maybe a little bit different in some ways but would have still will accepted without the so-called to Christian ethic when we hide will had pro social creatures we would have would have produced laws and customs uh-huh with some variations generally price actual. There was the Indian civilization the Chinese civilization. They didn't have Judeo Christian. Yeah tradition. The interesting thing is where the world's getting to at the moment is because previously you needed to be part of the community otherwise you would die lift out on the Savannah on your own. You'RE GONNA These days we've created a world where you could be quite dysfunctional human being. You can still perform president if they say to you. Can you can conduct a job. You know you could be a computer programmer. Living in MOM's basement and having contact the world at all like it's possible for people quite dysfunctional in the village doesn't get to regulate people anymore like like it used to the community doesn't and isn't it better to be in a more pluralist society when there are many views than the dominant sort of punishing sort of norm and good point. Malik makes that point. Is there in certain communities. I too rigid like the spartans didn't allow for any variation then other communities are so disparate and unconnected the IVA tycoon by other countries. That are less civilized but more cohesive news so you need an amount of cohesiveness to hold you together or bicycling. A band of cohesive barbarians. AGREEANCE TYCOON IVA. SORTA thing is what happened in history. To some extent people were had nice sense of community Housi- without you that's currently currently happening in Europe. Well well I have the world. You could argue that We've we've reached an interesting time in air evolution where the village in the community can't really regulate people anymore like it used to now. I think it's a question though overall of morality when we when we site that is community driven and driven by civilization. How it's evolved that we could probably all except that out the way we've evolved specifically three and what? We've currently agreed to be the things that we consider moral and immoral. They quite different than what they were two thousand years ago and they're quite different than what they were a six thousand years ago. It's quite conceivable that we could have evolved into very very similar beings with quite a different moral code. And so then if you consider that morality is based on how we've evolved as a community. I get back to the point that I was saying before. Then how does reason can play a part in that morality and isn't the part of reason in that morality only really what's driven by evolution and survival and then doesn't that sort of create a bit of attention in your own mind about what morality is. Then yeah I sort of disagreed right. At the beginning of premise. We sort of said we're very different to people of two thousand years ago and emeril moral principles principles that I'm not saying with different. We are the same people but we moral principles. I totally so like for example. I think bread the history. The history of Florence into the idea is where it all started from villages because the school insurance because today's hyman continents but then the audience that protect from things burning down because he had fires and homes with Goodell said the village would get together contribute to a fund because every year somebody's house would burn down the village. So you'd always have a fun to sort of rebuild the particular house etcetera etcetera today. We don't have their sort of it's up to you you cheer your High Cetera et Cetera. And this is not there isn't really that sort of community. Is that kind of thing I am. Yeah that's a very specific. Immoral Arl precept that's evolved because of that actual physical situation. The world could be a different place. We could have evolved a slightly different meanings for instance neanderthals were very very similar to Homo sapiens. In fact considered part of the same human species by some would morality of being different than as and therefore morality isn't really based on a reasoning. Running it's only based on. What is what what works for us to survive? But according to this book neanderthals never went through domestication prices basis. So you can look at the fossil records and that neanderthal shaped head is is the wolf head and L. is the puppy guy threw a domestication process. That I'm a savings did. That's the difference. We yes through that domestication. Prices we within I will to cooperate. I didn't have the same levels. anyways they had smaller groups groups that were quite into just as intelligent and so I didn't have the the social cooperation skills that we had they did but they may have had them in lesser quantities and irs. Mola small groups of people than what we have. But that was the Dan for that. They didn't have the social corporation skills. We ended up having with them and I think we really know we don't know why they. Why will what look on the reasoning that he might be reasoning is true science at the outset? said that you can yes. I am pretty confident. Choice is morally right. You know like with the lever on on worried about Nah choice B mighty reason rationality and reasoning is just that thing. You used to say. Well if I've if I'm over that view here what would I think here. It's it's not like the immoral state. Come from the rat. It's a rationalization is just enable us to be able to be consistent and logical and at some point in history. We thought if we think about this week at work at other problems and maybe that's all I think that rationality is yeah. I think that's what I think. I'm tending to the come to that conclusion as to what you said that we kind of when we hear a moral paradox or whereas tomorrow question we kind of know which way we wanted the answer and then we justify it by using and we also we'd like to find out what other people would say. Good everything yeah. Yeah Yeah Yeah. But it's part of Justice Event WanNA creep an idol. Yesterday solve the next complicated complicated problem when we're not really sure because you've got those raisins but but the reasons those reasons would the reason why you made the first choice. Because she just said that's wrong not doing that. Yes and studies in neuroscience in terms of decision making have been tending to show that people make the decision Zeeshan before the Raven consciously aware of making the decision yet. Certainly not the case with politics with people cheese Assad and then justify lighter nothing something for the police officer win pit police somebody just driving driving. And then why I ain't GonNa guys realistic enlist walks dot quick duckie. Oh Yeah I can make a judgment. Yeah yes anybody want anything else anything else. They WANNA desperately add to this mall wandering in the chat room. People are being added on you. It's too hard for me to keep track of Hughes Compensation in reading the chat room at the same time so. I'm sorry that I haven't interacted with in the chat room. But thank you. What lead the wizards most human malls evolved as a means of survival so many tens of thousands of years ago? They became instinctive lighten record history morals and manipulated Epeli by turning Cameron Riley. What Lee fatone? Yay Cameron's written a book on solid fats. which will have to talk to you at some sites and gentleman? Well I reckon. That's not a bad morals Afraid to us. Thanks for listening our time to thank the patrons hi turns here. Let me just see d listener on the show. You can become a patron for little as one dollar per episode Gallon Two L. 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I'll let gentlemen sign off inside buffeted by everyone everyone. Everyone told T.. Next week by to deliver today to mourn the loss of Scout Goat Velvet Glove. I honestly believe Scott's knowledge of accounting craft beer and all that sort of stuff as hoped Polish trips fist to be shining six. Lamont that it. He's he's today lease spirit. Thoughtful twelve men in Scott's absence now do work for the team finally join means song for him. Six six six US so muscle to the MONNING company stole humming.

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Episode 249  Freedom is just another word for  I need to eat

The Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove

1:36:51 hr | 5 months ago

Episode 249 Freedom is just another word for I need to eat

"Suburban Eastern Australia an environment that has the time evolved some extraordinarily unique groups of Sapienze but today we observe a small tribe akin to a group of Mick the gather together atop a small mound to watch question and discuss the current events of their city their country and their weld at large. Let's listen keenly and observe this group fondly known ours the Iron Fist and the velvet glove. Yes welcome dear listener. This is the artist of all the glove. Podcast WE'VE GOT technology sold last few minutes. Sorry for the slight delay on the livestream if you were winding forest but we've made it. Thanks a lot too was. He's going to join. This of course is the artists Velvet Glove. Podcast we talk about news and politics and sex and religion. Entre Ikea Fist with measles is is pull twelve main listeners. Good I travel. I was as you can as you can hear and see Davis now. He's coming through loud and clear and courtesy of magnificent broadband connection that he's managed to get out of and also joining us is was the sponsor was welcome aboard air. Young was basically joined us in the last minute so he wasn't expecting any of this and has nine dollars or what we're going to be talking most probably so so sad. Cut Some slack. Because he has no idea of of what topics are on the agenda. But he's well rid and he'll be out to provide some useful commentary right idealist. Not This is upside Two hundred and forty nine briefly. I want to tell you that episode. Two hundred fifty because coming up IS ANZAC DIED AND VS. I've been banging on about Anzac Day. Ceremonies enhanced filled with just Christian praise Christian hymns and invariably a Christian pastor of some sort as as master of ceremonies more often than not and I've I'm collecting off collected a lot of anti pamphlets and one of the things that just gets me. So of course with the crown of ours is no. They're not insect day ceremonies. So what odd decide today is going to the next day or two record a special podcast which you can. Dan Lie between side probably from about on Tuesday. Probably about this diaby valuable. Dan Lied and then sometime on the Anzac Day dawn. If you like you can just walk out onto your driveway and with your earphones in play. What will be twenty minute on his velvet glove secular Anzac Day ceremony? And you looking forward to that one was. That's a great idea wholesome. I when it's going to be different to the normal one because I thought that the normal antic die is sort of glorifying war to some extent it seems to me and so all issue a heartfelt. Thank you air. Soldiers who have fought for us and a heartfelt apology for sending them off onto lots of wars at the at the we shouldn't have been involved in the first place and in a few interesting ratings and things so that will be on Look for that in your downloads and that will appear sometime around style suspect so so that's coming and last week we had tried to bite and I it was interesting because Basically Hugh said to me found a guys willing to debate trip. And he's he's name in a great. What have you agree to on that for and I really had a quiet cul. I had no idea of what they were going to. Cy in particular in quite surprised by the philosophical argument. Matthew Paul what. What did you think of these arguments? I know there's been a bit of doing and trying on the facebook page. Do you know it was a little bit over my head. I have to admit because I have never really studied that angle of in other theological debate myself. So I'm not all that familiar with that side of it It was it was interesting. It's not the sort of thing that I'd and willingly submit myself to on our weekly Isis was no I came. You know but interesting to hear somebody who's willing to going to bat for God As as You know Useless argument that it is in my humble opinion. It was. It's it's nice to see somebody who's got got season tickets and and argue the point and he was he was very. He's obviously an intelligent guy and passionate about his beliefs and good luck to him. You know as much as I heartily disagree with these conclusions most. What were your thoughts thought. Hugh did a great job And yet it just amazes me listening to Matthew. It just amazes me listening to go. It's like that obviously very intelligent And just the way that they've they're able to convince themselves in delude themselves and others it's but Y- good on him for having the nerve to Go into battle so to speak with you and he always liked is fully expecting the usual sort of argument that at some point during the whole. Shebang it comes down to faith but he was really providing a new angle where he wasn't relying on faith and he was relying on on a logical argument. That scene follows from beef from a and I just thought that a lot of the following was a stretch and then it just didn't follow and he would say things that just did not necessarily follow so I put in my comments on the facebook page and I haven't been keeping track of the tunes and throwing t much but yeah so it's really. I guess that's just a new angle that you've got now when you're dealing with theus the five angle or the sort of I 'cause rational in all sorts of law line and they seem to be quite different a riding the same destination or two different trophies travel. What do you think they do in the so-called theological colleges and seminaries where they literally thousands and thousands of people have been through these things debating that very issue so they've practiced and Matthew to his credit has has has looked into. I dare say you know. He's he's a student philosophies how he would have looked at a lot of stuff like that. You know this is not exactly new is just what I wanted to say. Hundreds of years really something that stood at family During that interview was he's raising full. cheese philosophy was something along. The lines of them are charged today. That said that could justify my views justify my fife Waiting to the study with a very cause more than an a goal for doing that study is And it was sort of starting his boss Which is fair enough. I guess we all do so people. Have we all have a boss? It's IT'S THIN. Just can the argument be shown to the dysfunctional and and and air riddled? And I think it was so that was the problem. But then we'll we all you boss. At the end of the argument I was still left with the feeling that matthew was still arguing from a faith perspective that at the end of the day he was deciding that that argument was better than the you know. Materials there are a couple of taunts were For example I said well the first. 'cause he he. He led to the conclusion that the fullest cool was had to have intelligence and that it knew what it was doing and when I said well it could have been random. It could be a random event and he. He's the biggest. She's reply was well. I'd I'd think side but really that is on. Just GonNa take it on faith the possibility rather than the one you've mentioned with aunt really. Identifying why randomness was just impossible. So but yeah gave it a good good college try. I thought it was great to have somebody with got sort appear in this forum and into what's I got on your Matthew I say and it'd be nice down the track if we had some other debates to do with topics like secularism and and is is a secular country or should we be funding private schools or the like say like the debate. So if there's anybody at the from the angle or if you get another topic you wanNA run past Feel Free Mike Context. So so that was that that was good and I forgot to say that I did enjoy Hughes arguments. Sorry for not mentioning you. Hugh you argued the case very well. Hello in the Chat Room Allison and weight watcher. Make some comments. If you're in the chat room so we now your they are and I kind. It was also refreshing last week. Just to get away from Corona virus for wall. But we're going to have to get back to it because it is. All conceiving isn't it so one of the things? I was thinking not just as a prelude into these is is Paul. You've accused me of what aboutism. And yes and was that was okay. And it's it's true I do. I am guilty of what aboutism but a point but sometimes its avowed thing to say. What about the in different circumstances so it's not necessarily bad and I was thinking about it because I do? I do like to point out the errors in the American Empire. And when you might sort of say about Sean whatever I am inclined to say well you could say the same thing about America and that one of the reasons. Why do it is I think is because I find it more interesting because when an authoritarian rising China just Fox people over? We just applying obvious like you see. It's in front of you now and everybody can see it like I can. It's a totalitarian regime. That is screwing people ever caught obviously and forcing the do things that they don't want to do but when the US I it's through subtle means it's three things of economic power and things that aren't so obvious and people aren't saying it and so that's why I find it just more interesting to cy. Well that either. They is obvious. Of course they doing that. You noticed maybe not so. Obviously either here. He's another great doing something very similar. So that's part of why trump trump must be your new best friend because he really really obvious when these fucking people out of those he ain't he does. It's an interesting phenomena isn't it and we'll have little. Let's let's talk about trump and what's going on in America with the corona virus so just before I finish the other reasons to talk about America. Lot is because honestly it's not every day that a the greatest most powerful civilization the world's ever seen crumble before you very is like. I really think they crumbling. I don't really think it's that bad you think thriving now not driving. But nobody's driving at the moment but they certainly not crumbling. I mean they've always had in a variety of dissenting positions. And you know they don't hide that but in a sense that's that's a sign of healthy democracy is well just the CA- rhinovirus wouldn't you see that? As an example of normally the world's most powerful country avoids problems through its power but the Carina virus is just decimating that country to visible enemy true. Yes so head. I had a proper social welfare system a proper health system and proper leadership that now organized medical supplies. If they'd organized their Paler like could have avoided a lot of deaths that have had the more that way so I just think for example. That's just an example of an all powerful civilization actually suffering more than some third world countries. How to be seen of course because we haven't yet seen what's going to happen in most of developing countries treat but from what we've seen. Sifi any worse than a lot of a lot of poor developing countries will probably come out of this better than America and end when you compare America to its allies when you can see what's possible with proper resources improper organization advisory services that you're aware onto that the The trump administration cop funding to the Various government departments responsible for control of diseases pandemics. He's cut funding year after year. And this result. So it's you know I think we can cheat. I'm a favorite of the responsibility to the current administration rather rather than America as a whole. Well yes but if you look at for example the protesters that are currently running around in America demanding that that the case that the selection cease and the guy back to work in this pretty intense demonstrations occurring in incident sections of America at the moment and seeing different mains about it and people are sort of the usual vice crazy. Steve Americans don't understand. I just gotTa stay indoors while this happens and how how dumb on but what that doesn't take into account. Is that if you've got nine money in your bank account and is virtually nice. I shall security system and you know who the government's not going to help you out out in your data running out of money next week. You need to go back to what you gotta run the risk of working and possibly getting the Koran of ours. Because you now. If you don't work you're going to starve to death or the bank's GonNa foreclose on your mortgage or on your landlords GonNa kick you and you're GonNa be on the straight and so really when you see these people when they sign that demand to work hold. I want my freedom to work. It's in many cases signing. I don't want to end up as a homeless person. Which is what's going to happen to me. If I'm not allowed to work. Because Guardian Social Security System here does quite accurate there is social security system. It might not be as it could be. There is a social security system. Well it's not good enough. It's negligible isn't good enough so of course. This is a security system. But it's not good enough today. What's needed and another thing? Another comment I would make is what proportion of the American population is joining in these in these protests. Because I I would guess it. Just a a rebel in some bunch of gun nuts and libertarians. Who think they freedom is being stolen? I mean it's not exactly widespread. Riots in every American city is a I get a lot of media attention as as you'd expect it's trump territory it's the midwest. It's the flyover states that's where it's happening but how many cities is it occurring? You really know them up but not see that happening. In other countries yet there was something happening on Bondi beach a couple of weeks like this police had to come in. I necessarily the people off the beach. Nothing nothing about those screening is on that telling. This is the only country in the world with people have taken to the streets and demanded there to work. Doesn't say something well. It says that they have a healthy healthy democracy where people feel they have to go out and straighten protests which could also nine that deny they gonna be screwed if they can't go out and then money in that they're going to be on the SCRAT- eight and I have to work saying it could also is every night. It doesn't apply near an astrologer. For example. Many casual workers are going to have more money than they've ever had before so it doesn't end. Well studied as an included all casual workers. You have to have worked for minimum of twelve months. You'll still be on a new start allowance. Then we they up to. I mean you cannot compare the social security arrangements in Australia America. And that's why we don't have people rioting on the streets demanding that I'd be able to return to work and you don't sing in the UK. Either because they got hefty social security system that they're putting place. It's a function of of the society that I've ended up in this position so goes talk much yourselves. I'm just GONNA re start my own. I it is working. Thought my misses my My Chat Room wasn't working site. Sorry I'll keep going so so when you see these people protesting and demanding their right to work. I think I think some of that is it's listen darasing to say. I demand the right to my freedom to work because Obama hardworking American. That's listening barricading than saying if I had not only had to work. I'm going to be on the straight next week. Please let me because ongoing to be starving. I think the other part of it could be. You've got people who are demanding that other people be allowed to return to work because they want to cut their hair and to deliver pizza into into work for them so other people are gonNA enjoy having other people wake forest was. You've heard the two arguments here and d think it's USSR. Hey you want to be in the middle like if you're really gonNA take otherwise. Scott's not because he's got some but any thoughts on that Well one thing that I was thinking about was it appears that the handling Iran Avar a lot worse than the US aid in line In terms of the data that's coming out the deaths capita And the Thais fatality right They actually despite the fact that they very proud of the National Health Service. They appear to be doing much was in the United States so you can slander the United States. The how bad they handling the situation but if you look at the Dada that's coming added pieces of the United Kingdom is is doing Lewis and Diana have a much better such security system there. That happened much better. National Health Service is inside. The social security system will keep the pumps off the street and from protesting and demanding to win Saturday. But I'm surprised by that because the bean it seemed to me. A bit of discipline lockdown an Erica. So why doing this? What lockdown. Yeah it seemed to me. More stringent lockdown in the UK. Then Marietta I want something. Not that must take. Were not aware of is it is. It doesn't seem to be a direct correlation between the strictness of the lofty on. And and how will they performing in each country? I mean Japan is doing the best out of any country Very dense population. If you look at the deaths per capita there about half of what Even using Linda New Zealand will light to the guy and I had the day to the end of March. We had those death at the start of March They had a very stripped walked down Strict House and yet the performance if you measure in terms of the death capital they're about. They're they're on a par with Australia side. I think it's A. It's a bit of a myth that there's a direct correlation between the strictness of the lockdown in the actual performance of ESTA capital Germany to. It's A. It's a lot less strict as well. Isn't it. I don't think I've for example closed public parks and things like that? So sweating is is a bit of an outlaw. In terms of its attitude it's It's still cafes in bars and things like that. I think they've limited Data race to fifty people if they've had a very more relaxed approach since I and yet Sweden up performing a lot worse than the other Scandinavian countries. But if you look at the performance has seen land to Denmak. Denmark's is about Serena off the four times worse than fingernails are. Just doesn't Mike. So can you put your finger on any particular alcon? Yeah and you know a think. There's too much emphasis thing. Put ON LOCKDOWN. And the the the the strictness of lockdown the research that often come into Kabul suggests that the super spreading events applying a big role in the number of deaths in the number of infections wrought a familiar with the the spreading non concert or a match on or or a cruise ship In a church service just France Yep That cool is in. There was a medical conference similar in Canada. Runge when you when you try to back to one of these events here I think at one point in time. There was a province of Canada in idei end of all factions in that one province was from this medical conference on the Highway San here in Australia with them. The Ruby Princess Lacson contributed to get a third of all deaths in als We've performing well. But without the Ruby Princess we would we'd be superstars on the on the world stage. I can't say on lucky with few of the super events in that can do just to say it was a soccer match in Bahama Played One of the teams from spine. in from Valencia. I think it was in Milan. You had you had something about two-thirds talk of the gamma travel too long standing a soccer stadium. Seeing enchanting spittle ivory Gela catch the train back to Alma and We saw what happened in Bergamo to start can limit those super spreading. It's I think that has fog writer. Impact on your performance than Strictness you looked in to lead that place. Warren is always the capital low of some of one of the provinces of the worst-hit province. Talking to north I believe that in the case of Italy as well. They have a lot of Chinese Chinese tourists but Chinese workers working in Chinese enterprises in Italy because of the Chinese government didn't actually either realize. Tell everybody that there was something very bad going. On in Wuhan people from Wuhan and surrounding areas were apparently still travelling to Italy and and other destinations. Of course Y longer than they should have been and Italy really copped a lot of it because of the number of Chinese people travelling to Italy from the In the Chat Room weight watchers says there was a polk abattoir in North Dakota which had fifty percents of the cases in the state for all people working and living in close proximity abattoir and just Back to candidate trailing tournament somewhere in Canada. He think cooling. You've got to go as three go as at a standing fights to fight bicycles just some spits nome well just back to Canada a friend of right-wing. Tiny's was at a conference in Canada a morning conference and he came back went on a holiday in. Tasmania on a boat for ten days and unbeknownst to him that corona virus in infected a very playful on the vote and until recent episode in the hospital in northern. Tasmania here's pretty much single handedly responsible for the corona virus in Tasmania. So Yeah theory they have all that you can get business nothing. Nigerian they commissioned major at spreading events in we can limit the super spreading events. That's going to have a dramatic on on the the deaths because it's the other thing just getting harking back to America again is that there's a significant number of people in in climbing their right to work just signed the whole thing's hikes and there's no real Kuroda virus and there's a significant number a significant number of people saying all a Beta and visit an. He's an amazing places and there's and there's also a number of people well we're talking about will it be vaccine down the track. Did you hear what neither Yawovi had to sign a bill? So now that you're convicted world number one tennis player said he said I don't believe in vaccines and if it becomes the case that you need a vaccine to travel the world play tennis. That could be the end of my career. I'm not sure I'll have to think there is but you know about you now. He also believes the scarf areas a real person today. Really just main can raise the tigger hand-in-hand serious. Now it's true yes. I smoke fish and d listener in the days when I used to have some space to read fiction one nine. Thais went to apocalypse novels with some these particular and the interesting thing was in zombies. There was never a large contingent of people who refuse to believe that. There's a couple apocalypse was happening. Like everybody believed it so when I start writing Apocalypse Zombie Apocalypse novels? Infusion I'll have to account for significant proportion of the population you just refuses to believe that they were even Popovich last long putting my hand up. I don't believe any say okay so I of course. Donald Trump is in front of the cameras. Every die Giving his press conferences. And whatever have you guys watched any of them at all? I can't stomach it wrong. Trump is a more on it. Well what Schwann? Because I don't WanNa say it's brilliant. It's not he's he's just doing what comes naturally team because he is a natural bowl. Shida. Who's used to just talking? Shit and getting away with it. I don't WanNA GIVE THE SAINTS. That he's him a great strategist about this. It's the only thing he candy but it's not even a great arte but Iran professional bullshit and his ability in these press to just long by into Cy. We're doing a great job. We're doing much better than anybody else in the world and death numbers of this. You know he'll say figures completely wrong and he will say you know we were onto this before anybody else and I was doing this before anybody else. And and and you'll you'll listening to it and if you didn't know better you'd go actually. It seems like he has been doing a good job. Like I can understand how people only died is Fox media watching. This would go the president's doing great job because if you don't fact check what he says and just take it as as being the case or if the fact checking you here is from an organization that you'll convinced is corrupt embarrassed. He he gives us spillway. You Know He. He's taking questions from reporters and it'll be from a group that doesn't it'll be news organization anti-trump and he'll say where are you from fake news. Give me a question anyway. And like He. He's up for it as a fighter. Aspira would like other politicians might show but he he's on the attack and he'll take him on inside the majority of people in listening to the words that he signed the majority of people looking at him and have confidence isn't he's body language. They listening to each time but they're just not listening to you all listening to the words that are coming out of his and you are analyzing the woods but you'll pop the minority people people. Don't listen paid a lot listening to the woods. The trump signed looking at how sighing. And that's why more important than what he signed. Yup you're on the time is only important. Belligerent Time Yup absolutely body language and yeah he looks presidential and he and he doesn't talk like what some of his core followers would see as aloof intellectual. He yes exactly. They relate to him because he is not an orator. He's a pretty. His command of the English language is pretty ordinary. Frankly but you know up probably so is the command of English for a lot of these core followers. They liked that Nez Barnum says. Don't trying to fact checking they just looking at t's You know he's just getting the VIBE and exactly inside the presidency. I want to give a strong response. That sounds right and agree but what it is that he's doing. His in these conferences is a form of gas lighting in India listening. You might have heard the term gas lauding in the media of lights I am was. You've been hearing the term gas lighting even accused of it really choline to tell and aware of the origins of gas lauding. Disbelief Dicey Danai. It's a form of psychological manipulation in which in which a person or group covertly so seeds of doubt in targeted individual making them question their I- memory perception or judgement. So it comes from a movie. The stage play gas lights and in the story the husband attempts to convince his wife and others cheesy and sign by manipulating small elements of their environment in insisting she is mistaken remembering things incorrectly or delusional when she points out these changes and applies title which. I did night before. This was the title alludes to how the abusive husband slowly dims the guest lots in their home while pretending. Nothing has changed in an effort to make his wife out around perceptions so as I watch Donald Trump on this blind these things I think I'm being subjected the gas line of telling me things and I'm Reid. Was He really I to say that like he so convincing fortunately enough hard evidence that you can just go to of course and become the gas lauding. So I've got a link to Laura. I call a calendar of shine which is basically one of the anti-trump organizations which little snippets of things that trump said at different times and basically all through February and most of March. He was saying it's not a problem. It's under control. We're going to be falling. You'll probably go. Why and then guys. It's a pandemic I told you. So we've been onto this before anybody. It's crept up on the tape so that's guess lauding and that's effectively. What he's doing to us just see. So what trump is doing. Which is I think. I think the guy could win this goddamn election. That's coming up. These are certainly you think he's at the very least he should win an academy award. Wow so what he's doing is he's blaming other people so he's blaming China he's blaming the World Health Organization and he's blaming Democratic governors of the states and sign that they're not doing the job as state governance that high. He's just the fifth president of the Federal Government and a lot of this was the responsibility of the states to just dealing with that one. First of all is huge amount of evidence where basically hospitals are trying to borrow medical safety equipment. Ppa personal protective equipment. And not only have. They got to compete against other states purchasing. So the prices of these things skyrocketing but they're all saying having to compete with the federal government and the feds are coming in and literally taking stuff off loading buys and off air appliances off ships. That states have agreed to buy in the Fed's discount inside. Nope we're taking that. And is this incredible story by this guy. Andrew Artenstein from Baystate Health Springfield Massachusetts describing. How they've got to basically search the world for PPA and and when I get a lead the extremely secretive and he tells the story of aww being sent a sample and it all looked good. And then I went to meet these trucks out in the middle of no way and I'll just read some excerpts of it here. He said all. I arrived by car to make the final call on whether to execute the deal to semi trailer. Trucks Cleverly Mart is food service vehicles met US at the warehouse. When fully lighter the trucks type two distinct roots back to Massachusetts to minimize the chances that they contents would be detained or redirected. This is terrible. This is what reduced to to having to hide their PPA in such circumstances and sounds like he's taken from her gangster movie it does. It won't try. Trevor heard you speaking the Pasta having a common enemy and I you know I think it's The United States has got home Anthony. At the moment he's devoted well it's h. site for themselves isn't that an end to a certain extent. Astrid We've caused Boden's and eight is tackling this with common enemy at one of the one of the wise that you win. A WAR IS TO DIVIDE AND CONQUER ERA. And if if this virus is the enemy by heaven divided us with devoted themselves but I would inside stallion. Steitz have divided on. I think she'll extent an audit doing our selection on his side boundary as a matter of convenience of during a law in some way to stop movement. I see that as being a cooperative if I think I think you'd have to say that this sort of group of the federal government and the premiers getting together regularly to me. Ustralia is actually come together as a cooperative effort even though I have decided to create saw on a state based sort of the Andrea System but I don't think Australia is being divided by but look America is already a divided society. So it's already the haves the have nots. The they're flyers Rustbelt Steitz this the liberal lights on in California and and in New York. It's already divided and this is just highlighting the divisions I think so I beheld site What's happening with trump's popularity even being keeping Count Scott approvals? Fantastic all night for marketing. Some he's making the most of this situation and scientists is interesting both seem to be benefiting from situation. He has indeed Ceylon godless of of the. I mean. You couldn't say that Scotty from marketing is taking the same strategy as trump and yet they're both benefiting from chat rooms going off Mary. Murray in the Chat Room said Trevor even read these comments. Mary give me a break here. I'm trying to conduct a conversation. Keep half an oil and what you guys are science if I can pick out something. That's good I'll I'll put it in but it's not easy. You do it if come on. Cut Me some slack. Good Mary exactly. Se said trump. Binding the states. And that's unfair because he's actually stealing stuff off them and they have to hide it in disguise it food trucks plus they actually a lot of the states they had to borrow money and credit deficit side icon actually fund purchasing stuff. Yes according to certain laws. Since tied to an idol so in many cases states legally barred from deficit spending which means in terms of crosses especially those producing huge budget shortfalls through collapsing tax revenue. They are functionally unable to responsible. So yeah somewhere that after the during the nine thousand nine hundred thousand nine hundred and twenty influence a pandemic right. That was the prevailing wisdom in countries like Australia as well. I think they didn't want to borrow money in in going into debt to To address the situation ear will they states cannot legally unable to live pass laws previous lying on the conservative government's that cy under nicer income stances. Can you run deficit time? I'll walk how you avoid coaling it. The Spanish flu the run off man. Well done very tasty said trump's not being places you know I just you know one of the better term. I'll just referred to the time when it happened because we all know. Spanish flu was probably it was probably misnamed anyway. Say Trump's identified the Steitz who is GonNa Blind. He's also identified the World Health Organization saying gentlemen thoughts on on. He's I think he's declared he's GonNa pull funding from the World Health Organization in some sympathy for that out there from even non trump supporters thoughts on the World Health Organization. He hasn't actually pulled the funding. He's talking about pulling the funding is my understanding so I mean he often does. This doesn't he often says well we're going to quit. We're GONNA walk away and he uses it as a way of laughing people into doing what he wants to do. Well whether whether he does not do you think it's a good idea. I don't think too good idea but I do think the World Health Organization has a lot of questions to answer. Because we've we've previously. I think on this podcast questioned the United Nations and whether that was an organization with persevering with remember that news. Well we've seen some examples in recent times of why we would have grave doubts about the United Nations. I mean China is now the Human Rights Council and the others like Saudi Arabia and And apparently the World Health Organization leader has very close links with the government in Beijing and people questioning his judgment. Once he's links his links are as links. That's right he nominated nudity night. He said good job but in terms of financial political links on our web any. He's no I'm not aware of financial links although he's from Ethiopia. He said good things about them. He said a lot of good things that any actually linked to them in any Y look. I just can't recall the details now but I have read somewhere that he seems to be very very cozy with Xi Jinping or at least Xi Jinping gets a lot of praise from me deserved or not I. So he's the he's the issues I say. United Nations Just to justify previous position to some extent I see different the United Nations at different to the heat because with the United Nations ultimately these countries are going to want to impose the Pale on other countries and this systems whenever they can and there's inherent division in in that power supply way. Bicycling they want to impose their system or their political will on other countries when comes to the World Health Organization I think ultimately everyone can agree that they want pandemics addressed quickly and I want to know about them and I want to share information. It's a form. Four people are more likely to want to agree and cooperate and at the end of the DIA have an agreed objective of controlling old pandemics where possible whereas in the United Nations. They don't have that same single objective that they can all agree on. So that's sort of why on on more favorable than of the Health Organization and the United Nations anyway so I was reading a couple of contrasting things about World Health Organization. Sorry from crikey. He said that there is a few things. So this is one proxy lift wing at. Let bicycler calling into question. The World Health Organizations and pointing out that yes we'll health organization appointed. Robert Mugabe to be goodwill ambassador. Can you believe it you know? Tie the two thousand seventeen. So said is current Director General. I'll just call in Taos because he's last name time to pronounce so he might blunder when he announced Robert Mugabe as a goodwill ambassador That was yes that is deadly serious. Withdrew it. I think under pressure didn't yes. He was pressured and he went on K. So yes I think the other thing. Trevor was the promotion of traditional Chinese medicine. Yes he has provided traditional Chinese medicine indeed and said good things about that He also endorsed. Db's Chinese climbs on the covered nineteen. So He's on January fourteenth said that early investigations show. The Chinese authorities had found no clear evidence of human to human transmission but three days beforehand that whistle Blah. I'd been confirmed that he's lungs are infected with Navarre also with Taiwan. The World Health Organization doesn't recognize Taiwan. And and it's bicycling endorsed the side called wet markets and whatnot. Get this nine hundred. I should really be cooled. Wildlife markets because a wet market is anything any not. But they're not only about while they're about fresh produce and I I would decide. There are a lot of wet markets. That don't have any wild animals in correct. So when I keep saying we need to Bain wet markets then essentially all through the developed world developing will is this markets with life chickens and pigs and base. I mean we explored live. Animals presumably. That gets all wait markets. So I presume they really should be sighing. Wildlife went markets. Because that's where it seems. The transmission of these viruses jump from animals to humans through wildlife rather than through domesticated species say wildlife wildlife. While then yes well well from stroke. Wild animals opposed to domestic seems to be the world. Health Organization criticized The Australian Federal Government to full banning travel to China in accepting Slots would we banned travel. Incoming floods from China in light February and the world health goes. I actually publicly criticize. The is trying. Governments can't mandate that one but anyway that was from crikey which was quite damning number things we'll health organization and but then from the Guardian time a different perspective which is an interesting. Which and what are you going to bear in mind? Some sympathy for tendrils is having to Cajole people that you have no power over. You want them to tell you stuff. He wanted cooperate. You can't force them to do anything. If you're wanting to get information from the Chinese government will you wanting them to allow sharing of information? You're wanting to deal with them telling them that there are cells. Just nearly killed. The world isn't GonNa get you anywhere in terms of cooperation in getting people on the ground getting information from them. Unfortunately in that situation where you've got naipao there's a sitting Amanda Sucking up that you might have to do in order to try and get some uncooperative people to do things for you. And if you not thing Prising of them they might simply pull up stumps and and not allow you any sort of access to information or whatever like there's a I have some sympathy for that that you'd have to do some bullshit diplomacy to an internal responsibility with no authority those countries your job. Those countries shouldn't be members they shouldn't be participating if they're not willing to put that sorry. That doesn't get you anyway. If you simply cite right China you'll bad boys and we're not letting you into this organization anymore off you go and what happens next on his one like you. Of course you write something about the World Health Organization recently. Is that loss funded? I think it was by spent hundred ninety two million dollars on travel and during the same period. I spent half that amount on fighting Ebola wrought travel is expensive. Yeah I got from the Guardian. I found this one interesting when a pandemic strikes the world's leading experts convened physically virtually in a high tech chime in the basement of the Geneva headquarters of the World Health Organization. It's cooled strategic health up in Santa or is Hijo see shock and approximately urgent acronym for a place where life and death decisions are taken. The whole thing looks like something that Hollywood would set up imagining a pandemic. Who official said quote? You sit there and you hear these experts from all over the world and they really leading people the best expertise available to get the best advice possible. It's it's very impressive in the sense that Hi. This is how it's supposed to work. That sounds good. On the twenty second of January it was in this sitting who emergency committee convened to make a pivotal decision on whether to advise organization to declare a public health. Emergency of international concern a formal riddle it to the world so that meeting twenty second of January. The WHO had been sharing information with member states constantly since the fist. Cluster of cases was first identified but declaring a public health emergency still had a huge symbolic importance. The Director General Ted. Ross Add Hannam Gabrielle. He set in the yourself training in the shock. His top advisors watching as a succession of speakers guide their views on the screens in front of them. I there were reports from China and in Japan and Thailand cases at Maine recently confirmed then. It was the turn of the fifteen members and six advisors on the emergency committee drawn from around the world. The debate was highly technical but it had one critical issue at. It's hot. It was known by then that the varsity spread from person to person but the question was how easily the emergency committee was split down the middle on. The question said Ted. Ross told it to convene again the next day. In the hope. New Data Mart Create a census so I only obligation on the law is to convene a committee but not to follow it but he feels that politically. He needs to get a unanimous decision before he ex or at least an IVA Willman majority. The second is meeting with a challenge. Knob remind Ted Ross. Had the committee adjourn pending further? Study and it was declared a week light on the thirtieth of January after clear evidence of communities prayed. Here's the interesting part of all. That is let me just find. China argued against declaring an emergency but could not have carried the argument alone the other emergency members and advisers experts from the US Thailand Russia France South Korea Canada Japan Netherlands Australia Senegal Singapore Saudi Arabia Sweden and New Zealand. Their voices confidential but for the vote to have been split several Western or western aligned representatives must divided with Beijing really interesting and very inches Armenta pandemic and imagine how many people died needlessly because of that one week delight. Yeah but I've got some sympathy for the way. They've got the experts from largely Western countries. Who SPLIT DOWN THE MIDDLE? Ni- consensus draws again. The next I still consensus awake lighter enough. Information comes their that they get a majority. I can we declaring it. But it'd be interesting to know what countries voted on that decision. Tom I'd like to know what the Australian representative was signing at that The Chili if there's not a consensus itself to tendrils says the Lleida site. Well he's what we're going to do and that's all just put that down to Polish well hobby expert decision but when you get half the experts saying that there is nine eight to coal pandemic and a half assigned readers. It'd be signed. We'll come on guys the expert. Surely you should be able to give me some majority decision. If there's one thing that is told me. Is that experts expert. Opinion is very dubious Well it's highly varied as well in some cases. Do you think the fact that he is not himself. A medical doctor makes any difference in this situation. If he had been a doctor do you think he could have perhaps argued more persuasively one way or another with the The committee and Sean a bit more leadership. Pops its thinking. It was his lack of technical expertise. I think lack of leadership. Sometimes you just have career your tough. Guy Yeah. Well he's got. The decision was to do nothing. If this the and that's often the worst decision but sometimes the best. He chose to take the job so he has to be willing to accept that sort of responsibility to take leadership when needed. He appears to have been lacking in that department It's interesting story right so anyway and to me. This seems like a heating up of a Cold War mixed metaphor. But there's a lot of anti-china sentiment much so that the Waga City Council declared that its sister city arrangement with a small. Chinese city is found battled with con. Ming Ming is not a small city. It's a fairly substantial johnny but in the scheme of Chinese cities is a big one. And it's it's pretty I don't know how many people but it's a big city in terms of southwest and China where it's located but let's see it's a lot bigger MORTGA. Yes but what do you think about that? Do you think that was really just A sad sad and despicable at the sign talk wide despicable because the people of heavy pronounced coming coming coming coming in my nj could mean like the reason for it was that the city was not in a true friendship because it was an extension of the Titanic. -Tarian regime that large of the world about the severity of the nineteen outright. So he's the longest. The Waga Counselor is blaming. The people of could mean for the Khyber teeny outbreak ridiculous. I mean you don't if you want peace an army in the world you get it by talking and and and you don't get by cutting people off tries to see showing your choice. I think it was probably counterproductive as well wrong because the the ordinary people of China will take that as a personal slot on on them rather than on the leadership in Beijing. And in the chat. Rain says that Take a mock biologist. Is that right? So they got. He's got some songs we hasn't PhD in community health. Well half days now. It's not. He's not a doctor but he has a qualification in community health or on. I can't any likes to be referred to as Dr Apparent. Let Ron gang sounds better remember. We took me a cruise ships previously. And how basically Australia City? The cruise ships on your. Why not give us a bit you over people on you and I felt that we were shirking. Our responsibility because my daughter was trapped cruise ship on the other side of the world. I would hype a Western country would do the right thing. Get PEOPLE OFF in enabling to get back. Time was a bit shocked to the way the government was talking to the cruise ships. Because normally it'd be welcoming and will the visitors and the money they bring with them and it's similar to the way they morrison government has basically said to young backpackers and foreign students looking We got a bit of an issue. You better go. I mean because we can't afford to pay you the money we're paying everybody else. But meanwhile we're describing billions of dollars probably a way out. Selling Education to students is about the fourth major. Ed Money on it. I tried Money on it's really really big. And the Morrison government has effectively said to them. All we got a bit of an issue. He piss off. Tom And we'll let you come back when we're ready. You know I mean really. He is wasting a golden opportunity to demonstrate to the world that we are a welcoming hospitable And supportive country. Well it does comeback to either buy or help relied on so apparently in the seventy s Australia took on a lot of immigrants from Uruguay. When are having problems and so when the the ship? The Greg Mortimer operated by the australian-based Aurora expeditions was trapped in off the coast of South America. Trying to get back other countries doing Australia's and said fuck off like we're not helping you at all so Chile and others said you're not staying here and apparently Uruguay put the hand off and said we'll take you and bicycling let them doc organize special buses to take him straight from the dock onto planes have been organized by these trying government and and consequently we got a lot of. Australians pretenders country thanks to the goodwill of the people of Uruguay. Cy in part of that was a sentiment from what Australia had done. Back in the seventy s Feeling of of repaint. It signed These people these people that are on the cruise ship There they fit and healthy though the if they will seek people on there. I'm sure we would get to their assistance on the cruise ships. That are the the staff a lot of mistaken that have to be say way. Just not letting them off a crew of thousand people on the ships and we signed to bed getting off you did. He denies would times. Oh it extends support medical support if there wasn't sufficient medical support on the sheep Dance say the sense of bringing healthy people to show and putting them you know taking them off a floating hotel and putting them on a stationary hotel. I mean I can awesome Justice will on a cruise ship is what they can. I think most on Land Bai's toto but you stuck on a ship I've only on the side. A little and Western countries weren't letting the ship dock because we've been cases of corona virus. And you just stuck there and couldn't get off even though you are willing to pay whatever to get off and get home and you're just GonNa have to stay on that fight for potentially a year until it eventually find his way back to Australia. If ever you'd be signing hanging these people that work on these cruise ships. I pretty much live on them. Bowl Year contracts. For six months on six months being trapped on a cruise ship is is not some kind of get our trust. They can't I can't get off those people on. What is it the Ruby Princess or whatever it is cannot cannot say on ready to get off. Let me off on fly home. It's now docked in port can learn New South Wales and They are taking people off who were sick and needing medical assistance. Because they took off today. I said okay or I I'm GonNa think the patrons before I so dear listener. If you're if you needed this podcast we have patrons go onto a website on just fill the glove. Dot Com. Are you and they Contributed some little. All we ask is a dollar so well start at the top and I was Sean on shown. He's still with us to this day eyesight. Thanks Sean now Craig John Townsend Lane and hard Bonham Wino- Jahmai Allison Steve. She knows tiny wall. Jimmy Spud kind. Words Trump Brundtland been met. Robert would be brought Harris Palais medically dominic democracy. Liam McMahon dive roiling. Daniel couldn't Harry Watson. Peter Gillespie kept in doomsday wheat. Watcher using the chat room going Andy Dowling Murray wiper who's also in the Chat Room Melinda at impressed professor doctor. Dentist Will Glenn Bill. Cry Matthew Alexander Allen. Pull Weipa. Tom Doing Tara. Camille Kim Brown Donnie. Darko Clinton Riggs Kevin Est Dire Straits. Five tiny eels yet. Another pink a fan boy the way to speaking of Pinkas Warren. I picked up that God damn pink a book. The biddle angels of there being I think was the one I've got here and reading going. Is this book all about just. The decrease of violence in the world is is pretty much veterans bills of NHL is a bad bad the reduced amount of violence in the world. Yeah I was like really. She'll eat. Those book is more than just that anti going to talk about other things so I really WanNa read a thousand next book. Nice next book. I got the wrong prefers next because I'll I'll agree with him that violence in the world. But when you when you controlling what somebody much they ate. You'd have to be live with them because if you've got them by the balls anyway so people are benefit as well. China just volley ear well but if the books as rating through the chapters the headings and skimming through it always like it seems to me. The entire book is a bad that there's less violence in the world and thought will that doesn't particularly interest me. I'm not gonNA come in twenty s to this book on that topic. Sal Get one of these other ones in and then the Knicks won the night. Mistakes me like it was based on the popularity of that. He extended that sort of fame ongoing a whole host of run. I so I get another Pinkett Fan. Grime Hannigan mock clock. Citizens Seeks David. Lloyd the twelve maintain Andrew Jackson. Yemi hambly Shine Ingram Craig bohl and Kirby of old joint since the Koran virus could only goes and also recently up. People contribute at sort of patriotic. Who Do it directly through? Hi Pal is deynekin walls. Thanks was the beneficiary Mr Anderson Corinne Madman Beverly in diamond from regard digital wind salmon. Jared Terry and a new patron abroad Moscow data. So thank you to the people who contribute and help cover some expenses so we can have all these high tech gizmos and do what we're doing saying it's a long list of garden so not many people have dropped off in recent times site. That's good coding. Now I guy for that. That's right can I mention something just before we finish up? Not Finishing up we've got. We've barely started full really good because I thought you know the people get On good thanks We were talking about the effects of the Koran of ours. The lockdown and things and have you seen. Did you see in yesterday's news? I think was the Queensland Police Force used a helicopter to design and on three young guys having quite drink on the rooftop of a building and I will violating the proximity rules and everything else and apparently they'd been using some illegal drugs as well but I mean basically they would busted for NFL for trespassing on the roof of this building where they shouldn't have been and violating the proximity roles and the cops. Use The damn helicopter catch three young. They're a police dog involved in that as well there was a building. That's right. Can you imagine the cost of running a helicopter to catch three guys having a quiet drink? And maybe you know a joint or something on a rooftop in the Gulf coast and how many police were involved in that and of course they issued fines to each of these guys that in other the fallen for being too close to allow me. It's getting ridiculous but what I was getting to was there was a group of Orthodox Jewish people in nine think. Melvin busted for having a prayer meeting some con by the police. But it doesn't say this is from the shots at US applaud trevor. It says police warned. Mitten meeting at the same venue on Wednesday and issued several warnings to the organizer of the group to not hold gatherings. Police attended the location again on Thursday after being made aware of people heading to the address for meeting nowhere in the report. Does it say any fawns? Where issues and yet you know as we know people alive or strategy or getting fond for the most ridiculous raisins is that a case of the police trading warily because this was a minority religious group in. Victoria maybe they just It's certainly a sensible DNA. I had a chat with a call as all standing in line to get a coffee Through the week and I asked him about happy Z. Walls and said he's very busy And the the increase of that same is from domestic violence. That was predicted. So you so. He's basically indicating that that has panned out in fact yet in his opinion. This is just one minion. Domestic violence is also. He said he was busy. with coal outs from people dubbing on Ron But on the other hand it'd be a lot less traffic accidents. There'd be a lot of breaking enters because people I'm I guess maybe a workplace they're still carrying the other parts of the police force be quiet quiet because I'm saying one of well it's going to be interesting to see because pull you would be concerned the infringement of their civil liberties that we're very concerned that we have accepted tonight and I think Australians have gone. Well this looks pretty serious. We don't want to have a disaster will agree to some fairly draconian measures for the moment. But Yeah I think pay up to the APP whereas my question. Do you want to explain? What do you know about the APP So something orlands just recently is that it's only going to register contact with somebody within one point five. Mehta's for more than fifteen minutes. Yeah so doesn't track. You'll like high shouldn't is such it. Just identifies tonight. Yes whether you're in the vicinity of another fine not anytime to ping another divorce when it's within one point five meters and it's GonNa keep a record of that interaction for molen stain minutes. So that's basically someone standing next to WanNa try or a boss Bo. Someone you're sleeping with I think. Do you sleep with Your Phone Warren. And does your partners the phone? Not that's tonight. How does your phone? Now you're in bed with someone for goodness I taught which partner poll well is. I'm going to respond to the process. What I'm concerned that they're gonNA find out at each other. Well Lamont could be the end of your. That's what bombies dot worried about. He's he's against the. I think I know in New Zealand just endured as recommended up. Just a logbook destroyed Tan. Way Out anytime. If you're under lockdown like we are at the moment you should be able to identify people. You've spent fifteen minutes with sign because he can point admitted. Yeah I really other than the people in this house is. There's nobody so if you're at the shops getting some bread milk supplies you're not going to be close enough to anybody t trigger that APP anyway so jump fifteen minutes on August. I don't trust them. I think there's value government tribal lendings value in that. I couldn't get through pain and pipe burned. My memory of people I dealt with in the previous way saying look I am not in principle against the the the measures implemented by the government in terms of keeping us a pop. You know obviously this logic in that. What what what makes me angry? Is the cops going around finding people for the trivial things when really the cups are supposed to be serving the public? Now if if I was put in charge of the police force in the side I would be telling all his under may use some God damned some common sense and discretion warn people. Explain to them why they need to keep a distance instead of whipping out the phone book. You know so hastily I just. I don't think that's a good look for the police. I think the police would get a lot more public support if they even pretended that we're actually serving the public instead of discipline and punish being their mind sort of Montenegro. Look just pray. Read the comments. Murray in the rain said one point five meters bit specific for Bluetooth if it can go up to ten meters and if so what do people in apartments do or you could have your bedroom adjacent to people in the next unit and you'll find register so I think if you have fan have Corona Virus. Then you're GONNA apartment building by. Sigli the authorities who would have decided the people in the adjacent units as a matter of course his rival he headed so you might have through door handles all balustrades or whatever come into contact Either get tested. Whatever say. Can I admit to violating the public distancing? I didn't want to ask your opinion on that on the show Graham. I know I know but look. It's probably already captured on closed circuit. Tv Anyway. So just give me your opinion. Should I expect to receive a notice in the mile because I drive a flatmate to to the airport on Saturday and you know she was leaving the country probe on my Nigga getting my life and she was quite an honest person so spontaneously gave her a hug? And it's all captured on key didn't circuit TV at the airport. Of course of course they would. They would have my registration number of my car next week. Do you think I'll get a notice in the mile? Yeah you won't be on next step aside and you'll be knocking on the when this all blew up initially just in the very early stages all I took my mother for Dr and I. G LOVES FISH AND CHIPS SO I took it to San Guide and bought some fish and chips and I said look. We're not supposed to be outside unless we're exercising so what we'll do is we'll just sit in the car looking at it. The by eating fish and chips inside the car and between us in the by was some sort of titles and in those about four different groups of couples some mouth female some mouth. Some female female like is a very picturesque beautiful. Die and sure enough. The police came along to each is grapes and said just a warning not supposed to be doing this. Unless you're exercising. You should not be just sitting and fishing. What you're doing and I'm not GonNa Fall on you this talk but move on and we were just sitting in the car. So evidence cried jobs but it just felt very a nineteen eighty-four he wasn't very And people low you'll be accepting of that in the early dies of pain damage and thinking well not sure series always my this is necessary or whatever but I think people are going to start looking at it and guy hanging minute. You need to doll his back a bit. It's just too much. Be Interesting to see how people respond strands. Give Fair go if they think it's warranted but my sense that this to file things off alone out of this whole end me? Saga is the People's People's respect for authority and unquestioning respect for authority and rules. You know and that's what led to a lot of the world's problems lack the the Nazis that worked in concentration camps during the Nasi trials. Use the excuse always just following orders and people lots of fable by default just followed his and a happy to fall in dine question the intent of the rules. Don't try and understand what the rules are trying to achieve. It's just like I wanna be told is what you need to do and then bang not having to think about it. I'm just GONNA do it. And that's that's a dangerous situation two billion. I'm trying to remember the name of that famous experiment. That was dying sixty without doing. The electric shocks. Electric Chelsea was also the one where they had prisoners and prison guards and people appallingly in that situations and it was a goddess Danny Laptop instructing as people to administer the shocks would which was signed which will fight nightfall killing the subject and the person was screaming and yelling and saying stop. I take it anymore and the goal is saying you have to. You have to give them another shock. Okay thank but this is a situation that we find ourselves in. Now than such distancing won't playful I just not thinking about the intent of though is not not using their common sense just following a little. That's what I've been told. That song candidate Said Yep just finally we will finish up now. Did you go as deep throat that flew tracking so I signed up for the flu tracker in basically all been getting an email every Monday morning? Asking me whether I've got symptoms runny nose or cough or whatever and I've had the flu injection at trial and it shows you a graph which is basically the right of five year average of of people having flu symptoms in the previous five years compared to what they're getting down from flu trivia and the the incidents of flu like symptoms is cowardly Dan at like point two five percent whereas normally it's somewhere around saint and that's one of the things even yeah and one of the things that we are being so genetic inside careful and we are not interacting with people to assist ornery incidences of the flu Y Day on how compared to what they would be out of all. Let's Rod between fifteen hundred and three thousand Doai of the flu every year. That's about forty three. On average a week we've had seventy one deaths in a month and a half north two months from Kevin non-aid so if this lockdown proves that we can have the amount of deaths that we get through influenza. Should the government put us all into lockdown should the entire winter because it's kind side laws now but the whole thing about this on the lot front? Yes and that's what. A lot of people are struggling to understand the hearing Respected Journalists Site Staff. Lock you can't put a price on a lot which is just nonsense and I know you guys don't watch and I and I don't watch it anymore. That there was a discussion on this on Monday evening. And I just saw a short clip on a on a news article on the Internet Showing this woman who who is not what was she. What's her job? I forget now but she was saying. There are ways of measuring quality of life that comes from working and having an income and things like this and to basically arguing that some people are saying a decline in the quality of life caused by the lockdown which is perhaps greater than the decline in the quality of their life that they might have experience from catching cut nineteen. I mean well. I mean you'd have to spread that across the whole population of that question of balancing the pros and cons. And at the moment the Hull Society Saints the five based on one single metric in the half a full minutes as is been measured by one single metric. Now to draw an analogy. That's like saying you know. Trying to measure someone's fitness purely. Lehem any push outside ended to. Can you tell him about three can do good? But the whole point of this lockdown was the risk that a hospital system would be tidally Iran and yes Up to about two percent so we are prepared to accept deaths from carneval Iris. And we don't want a situation away. The hospitals will be totally overrun. People have but it's the number of bids. We maxed out at about two percent of curiosity. And that's not including the additional loss Russell but yeah but that was the you know. The strategy was developed to achieve that goal brought. And we've achieved that goal and now it seems like we're coming up with goals to justify the strategy. Well the problem is if you just a free for all for example then. Y- it's not going to go away and it will exponentially come back so that's the problem like it. We bought ourselves time to think about what we can do this on the suggesting just going back to. Yeah but we bought ourselves time to consider what we should do as a reason to measured sort of why forward accepting that I if we I've been up a little bit and it costs a handful of lauds. Let's I because this is going to happen side. We can't I think the politicians back themselves in the corner here. Because if thi- relax the Oesterreichische any social distancing rules and then there's a spot thy will a responsible for that. Well what do you think they got it right so far? I've got it right now. What what what would g file strong? Not Strong enough what? He Sang too slow to act initially. And now it being to slide taking the restrictions off Ron and so what restrictions should come off now in your opinion will off think we should be able to travel from side to side on the sense of shouting sideboards. Every state has essentially has the signs saturation of infection as the other sites from followers to draw two bar in this just as much kind of nineteen barbay series year in prison I would I would. I cannot cafes and restaurants and limit the number of people that could the establishments The Should be we should be time superbowl but without the crowds united we should. We should essentially Rules to stop that super spreading things wrong so Travel Spice. The distance between the people walked down house packed pine. I just started with the Caffeine presentable. With table service will one one whiter with rhinovirus can along shift enhancing nights to people. Could it's a race definitely but I mean I mean cafes are at the moment and you can go in order a Taiko on and there's no greater risk from standing at the counter insane have a flat white plays and that that you have with the white Yeah I just I think we should be taking more. The Sweden approach swayed turning into a catastrophe. Now is not will not swimming. It's not now it's not if you look at the data. Sweden's performing much better than the United States and the UK in Belgium the Netherlands in places where lockdown is very stringent. I thought the data was showing the that. They're having a terrible on Sweden. Not It's not. I'll send you the grass lineup. Okay and that's that's another thing that also to one out of this hope. Pandemic is people judging their opinions off and Doug Evidence and there's a there's a reluctance to look at the data. Mary says yes it is. What do you mean Mary? Yes what is what so sweet. And he's doing terrible or it's or storing well wrought. It's doing better than the US I use is a bed benchmark. I think he's what he's saying. Can I ask you guys in the future when the vaccine is only available having it if they want all have one do you get a influenza vaccination every yes I do but you? I'm Pretty Lazy but of Donald J having accidents no no. I'm not against vaccines. But I've just never had a flu vaccination should I? Don't get the flu for some reason. So I've never bothered me. You know if I if I was a person that did suffer from influenza. Of course I would get a vaccination but I just need to get some reason so lots of things that are not with the hell. It's probably only in recent after needs at. I have by slightly because I got an elderly mother living with me so for flu. Injection SAM IS. We'll get one missile in also just saw an end up giving one of China's to be sort of more than five easy. Our public didn't in one. I wonder how big a role the ex- extra hand washing hasn't is because I've I've always been a person who washes my hands quite frequently and I don't get a lot of these sorts of illnesses for some reason so I wonder if that is a lengthy We'll we all continue to wash our hands a lot. Maybe a robust constitution told me maybe Yemen or guys I reckon we've already have stain cooler today. So just reminder chick your APP I've the next few days for the on Velvet Glove and Zych Dyke special. The audio is that on Anzac die would get up at dawn. Stand on your driveway and listen to a day ceremony. Like you've never heard before I'll try and keep it to about twenty minutes Lose any religious elements. Now there'll be nothing religious except I think I will have a pound sightedness honest but it might be anything over religious nine rubbing bristow right a very nice little poem which considering easing signing scientists proper religion by an satanism is proper religion without a day on him saying makes all right. What do you think about? The you know the suggestion that we all go and stand it that the that the end of our driveway on on the morning event actor. Great suggestion provided. You're listening to episode two hundred fifty of this of this podcast waking duty bid if you'll all delighted broadcasted straight with landscape idea. That's US thanks was for a last minute. Entry onto the podcast. You'll help my son. Thank thank you twelve main ways. Thank you trevor. And thank you was for assistance saving in Cape Ann. I add for that special and we will be back. Choose Dine next week. Maurice's fist as at the case on fifteen minutes. Now like I've got to be careful. Murray that got US copyrighted music side. They will be some some piano music. Which odd found that is not copyrighted? That I can use but I really wanted to use and the bland and the band played Mathilde by Eric. Love but I contacted the Gone Austin response. I really have liked views. That but It's a wonderful song Roy read all your comments Nari. I already about Yup. Thanks in the chat room. We'll see you later. Thank you everybody and often out by everyone as you can see. We've had our I on you for some time. Now Mr Anderson as seems that you've been living two lives one of these lives has a future Disney not. I'm going to be as forthcoming as I can be Mr Anderson. You're here because we need your home. My colleagues believe that. I'm wasting my time with you but I believe you wish to do the right thing. We're willing to wipe the slate clean. You a fresh start. We're asking them return. Is your cooperation in a simple donation of one dollar per episode? That sounds like a really good deal. I think how about I give you the finger and you give me my free podcast Mr Anderson. You disappoint me. Can't skimming with this Gestapo crap. I know my rights. I want my free podcast. It's only Mr Anderson. What good is a podcast if you're unable to hear?

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Episode 247  Secularism, Assisted Dying and China

The Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove

1:46:54 hr | 6 months ago

Episode 247 Secularism, Assisted Dying and China

"We need to talk about ideas. Good ones and bad ones. You need to learn stuff about the world. We need an honest intelligent thought and entertaining view. Of what the Hell happened on this planet in the last seven days need to sit back and listen to the Iron Fist and the BELVA glove. Yes welcome back. D Listener Develop Glove podcast. And what the hell happened in the last seven days on this planet seems like almost need seven days to review what happened in seven days. Things are moving side quickly. Sign of course trevor. The obvious this is the fist in the velvet glove podcast. It's normally a little panel discussion where we talk about. What's happening in the world? And we started the podcast full years ago emphasis was on secularism and religion and then done a lot on just general current affairs that have nothing to do with religion. In the course of light we've been dominated by the virus. Say I don't know that year but on kind of just naming a little bit of a corona virus break so we're gonNA suck dot and this episode talking about religion and secularism and astrologer in some of the things that are going on and inevitably will fall into Kuroda virus chat towards the end. So we'll we'll give you a rhinovirus break to start with. Let me introduce. Who's with me and we've got what you in the livestream you would say. There's a cast of thousands so with me is always Scott. The velvet glove apple listeners and his allies poll twelve name screeching. And we've also got paid a monk. Who is the president of the National Secular Lobby? Welcome aboard Peter. Everyone thinks that hugging or like fingers crossed the Technology Hall Japan. We're all hanging a threat to NBN connections this weekend and hopefully the audio and everything all the I K. So we'll see how we got. Well not so. Let's say let's talk about what's happening in religious affairs and of course today was a die where cardinal pill. The High Court decided that he's conviction was not appropriate and cancel that so he was questioned. He's a free means a guy and we've got to be careful about what we say here because people might have strong feelings about his guilt or innocence. And we say things too strong to odd. We're laudable for defamation actions so if we were sitting around having a beer and a pump L. language thoughts mafia lot. More than what they are now or they might be who knows but we do. There is sort of a long. We have to be careful with say anymore on the national secular lobby. I would imagine doesn't have wouldn't well do. They have a position on this or is there anything that I would like to say about it? A probably kind of anything on behalf of the cell thing is as long as a letter of the Lord's been saying On this vettix and I'm sure it must be for For the victims to scuttle any thoughts struck you when you heard it. I wasn't surprised that the High Court Vita Surprise it was seven nil that divided in five or one that was he was seven. Judges was I thought it was dull. Said it was it was? All of them voted to Cauti- The across the conviction. I was surprised you managed seven. Shall we say I was also very surprised that the guilty verdict what happened in the first place However they when he he different snippets of information which the jury shooting that access to have been some swear Thinking but the mine raisin behind the original guilty verdicts is my understanding of it was the compelling nature of the complainant. He was very compelling and he's witness testimony and that's why they've apparently why the jury voted to convict. But as I said. I'm not surprised that his conviction was quashed today. The personally disappointed all not really. I'm not that invested in it but Yeah it's one of those things I I just don't think you're ever going to say a proper justice in something that all it was quite an old case you never going to satisfy everybody on only thing to add guy was frankly surprised who was convicted in the first place. Purely on the testimony of Thyssen speaking about something that happens quite a few years prior Gee I I have no idea whether he's guilty or innocent and But I adjust. The system is working properly then. I can't see how you can convicted of a serious crime Based on the testimony of one just one person with no Writing evidence so I was very surprised tunes convicted in the first place and not surprise that he was a free to that. Yeah I've had a chance to read it in depth in daytime but it does seem I'll read a little bit from the judgment and what I said was. It reminds the evidence of witnesses whose honesty was not in question. One place the applicant on the steps of the Cathedral for at least ten minutes. After Mass on Fifteenth in the twenty second of December placed in the company of Portelli when he returned to the priest's sacristy toward navy's vestments and described continuous traffic into an out of the pre sacristy for ten to fifteen minutes. I and there was another incident with it. Basically the court has said Willie was on. There's testimony from somebody else which was in contrast to the witnesses distant the victim's testimony and and basically saying making full allowance for the advantages enjoyed by the jury. There is a significant possibility in relation to charges. Wanted to fool that an innocent person has been convicted side. So a his. Here's what I would say. He's only feelings and Challenge out there for people what we've got with people may not realize this but at the start of Hei. Will I call it? The Legal Year L. Judges from a state supreme courts put on the full robes and regalia and in participate in a ceremony with church leaders. So in Victoria it's cold the Red Mess and in Queensland by cooled the opening of the low year site for example in Queensland at the beginning of the judicial offices members of the legal proficient in the community invited to attend the low each that service the origins trace back to the Middle Ages and it rotates through a number of different inner city churches including Greek Orthodox Church of Saint George and other jurisdictions and also mosques and synagogues and well by side that for many years it was held in the of the year as the cooler weather Elliott judges to wear ceremonial robes more comfortably recently. Queensland followed a cum laude leads towards a simpler more modern design suitable for sub tropical climate as a result of the church service held at the beginning of the year. Well that tells you they get dressed up in the full rides and there's a picture as part of a shine is The Red ribes in the weeks and all the rest of it. And you know there's dozens of judges. They seems in a full ceremony with church leaders and afterwards the full tea and scones. And whatever and I've got an idea at a high court. Judges are not blessed but perception is important and went out. Judiciary is entering into religious ceremonies. Like this the start of each year. That's just not a good look. It's the you know that's just not on. It should not be on. It's of course it's tradition when they were close ties between the church and the judiciary. This shouldn't zero east is they shouldn't believe close ties so So so that's the point. I'd Mike and more challenge would be to the sightedness out there. Put on your full sightedness. Rives and attained the next ceremony in your state because it's open to everybody and let's to see how they feel about This and it would be a good way of highlighting. The ridiculousness of this that are at judicial leaders are involved in some sort of regular ceremony with church leaders. Now it's fine. For Supreme Court judges to be Catholics Greek Orthodox or whatever in a ten ceremonies in their own private time but attending in official capacity as judges of courts. It's not it should not be happening saying so there's a campaign for you pay the NFL a sort of protest. What do you think I mean? Do you think that's something? The secular would be sort of calling on judges not to go to that ceremony are showing in. The writing is definitely something you said about. Section relationship with any of society. Certain is prejudicial averages regal procession seniors. They're deciding. The cases is unbeaten sites. Yeah you want this level of social relationship. Say So the other thing that's happened guys in the last few days was video kinda way. Scott Morrison was It was a video of a phone conference that he was part of where there was a prayer meeting between Scott Morrison and various other people and he was pretty full on in his In in his praise so They're saying yeah so. I've got a bit of a clip that I'll edited of what of what he's pray. Also apply some of that fool and now the audio on this Based on go outside Bay with media listener on this one as tight artisans restrict haas exercise. This awfully canner is an analyst judgment. How it Mike US? Trying to that is why John Simi. Father we just have to. You let your love show impose trustee trench the so I played on what is the NFL. Think of that. Yeah that some unexpected. Getting their hearing that Yeah look on it kind of goes back to what? You're saying or batted relationships profession. Judge some some of INJIA. Obviously Scott Morrison this on automating. Prime Minister is But yeah the question here is if you saw video would say. He was suiting sitting. She was Prime Minister Office. And Yeah it. It looks very officials titan than say in. Yeah there's a there's a lot could be your it's it's interesting with the video. Audio is not cy. The video was posted on the Eureka website. Which is a pro religious website and it was obviously initially put up. Isn't this fantastic? Could help prime minister prying away and it was only up there for about three or four hours and it was deleted but a secular people when I saw it. First off immediately copied it Having had experienced in the past of these sorts of things being deleted gone missing side certainly the Queensland terrence for secular steitz ghouls was one of the groups that that actually did that And so that's a good story itself. The way the term that they managed to capture the video before it got deleted side at least some cooperation between the secular groups. Pay The what what is happening with the secular groups. I've I have a Getting together and working together. I neither was a match mating fella. Can you tell us anything about tells just generally then what's happening with you'll neck of the woods? Yes yes I am. There is actually heard of ours is really. Let's head of unfortunate but he was actually a joint second line of months ago. Sorry ten groups from around the area of his nation in Celibacy Scrapes as Or joining together to campaign. Is they run under of under the banner. Don't Bite US. Feel that's the biggest threat from the initial is it's GonNa it's GonNa make religion in Saudi. It's GonNa wind gaps in big old enforcers today really in the Pasta. Straightens catching differences. We feel can foist less So yeah the campaigns of this website on the new information on so yeah. Let's finish up any any movement on the Front National Secular Lobby the lobby part of national. You'll be having any like in terms of lobbying on. I'm assuming it requires money and you don't have enough yet. Well that's that's yeah that's always the case. Basically it does require required to which But yeah we make headway Where they touch. Oppositions way was just racing. Each one cents The issue in question religion campaign. Change to question. What is the person's to religion? Which many minutes house Lexi in stallone Of the have agendas this Paris lesson. Kobe Legion after we had had a better And in general as best as we can this morning reruns on directing and she she's Yep Yep rix Patrick rex rex. Patrick isn't the guys night it's picture. He's a sinner a lawsuit and he's he's quite pro-secular using sorry. Yeah Yeah he has the Yes roy. I'm rick and the thing to do Peter is defined it who were the potential pro-secular people within the library parties. D Do you have his short list a hit list of young up and coming live of politicians? He might in ten years time. Have a senior position who seemed to be Because this is what the religious groups do is get people when they're young and they're doing they seating side is tonight the night them in white for them to percolate up to the top. At which point like the main Syrian candidate or whatever they fully programmed so D- look at at that in terms of odd sort of gave up on the Liberal Party. And Times of finding somebody or you know it'd be even scares but have looked at WHO's potentially helpful to the secular coors in the lie party in the junior ranks at all Yeah well that that's something that we are just obvious is trying to Appeal to a general audience. I suppose your I guess. We'll should be blind your own. Sorry it should be planting your own. Manchurian candidate that's prize so the national secular loving the seriousness. That's what the Christian groups have done. Is that have taken true believers in my children. I go pre selection and got them in there. So that's why above what secular groups capable but there must be people who are already in there through other means who who might be sympathetic. Who might be willing to listen to sort of ideas you'll putting forward 'cause I don I get the feeling that Albanesi in some of the others are not that not that interested. Yeah that's yeah. It's hard to tell us by especially Jeff. Engines loan originally won't be as So yeah I think you're right. Estimates introduced by individual vocations. Who Sign in touch with them and joined ships. Now we're obviously Maxine and Internet capacities on this earth. Conference call that on this school maybe the ICL can hype connect and help us out the Australian Christian lobby because Wendy Frances putting out a press. Release where she said the ICL calls on the federal government to Derrick Telecommunications and Internet service providers to block pornography during the nineteen crosses with Australians social distancing and self isolating to prevent the spread of nineteen blocking porn online's essential to prevent Internet gridlock and result in isolation or even loss of lives the Christian Australian Christian lobby Do suspect the. Icl is of racing the volume on maybe in a reflection reflecting on their own vessel abbots. I die but just for the duration of this podcast. It'd be nice if they blocked the porn so that we could ever even van with a podcast. Look the ICU. Helping you now. One thing good. That's happening in the national secular lobby. Paid is your weekly wrap where you really Summarizing everything that's going on in the week before like that is a comprehensive list of what's happening so I encourage anybody WHO's interested in secularism two on a night like you'll facebook pie. Whatever it always comes up on life aid but it's pretty good. Yeah Yeah as you say and Yeah Lesley as a lot of stuff going on just at. You should come out Saturday evening. And IT'S A. It's a fairly comprehensive means and views of place. Check it out did Did anything else that you wanted to add before we we saw on you often and and get out next guest on the national secular. He's doing well. Unfortunately Sexual Navarre's way kind of Emergency his mind Do WanNa key issues on her monster someday. Very certainly as Following up especially burnt advice campaign. Semi on hold is still and Yeah I guess it makes it makes sense to really put in the hall campaign Vardis hibernation will lighten to see what happens. Yeah it'd be just a waste of money to sort of too much else in the meantime This might help anybody from you'll group as well and particularly you paid it because you've probably wanted to yourself Does the eyebrows Hammock. God exists and you'll be pleased denies the next week. We're going to answer that question because we're GONNA have to Bite Hugh Harris and guy called Metsu again to have a formal debate on this podcast. Where they're going to discuss the does the Ibraham if God exists apparently Matt as I can see some sort of philosophy green. He's an ex lawyer and regular listeners. Would be familiar with you. And it's going to be quite formal with opening remarks and questions from the moderator. That's Maine and in the chat room. You ask questions if you have a question for Hugh or Matt Send him to me Because if they're good ones that I'll use them and that's on the agenda next week if you wanted that question answer doesn't Abraham and called exists. You'll it'll be answered for next week does have a direct line to the big fella upstairs. Well is that your question that you'd like me to ask is that this is yeah. I can't say I'll put that on the list side when I well paid up. We show be. Defeo will and good luck and stay safe in Adelaide. Ain't all I had a really Atalaya month saw guy and had a great conversation with With Brian we met in a in a Italian place. Somebody a cup of coffee and just talked the stuff for a half. Two hours is a fantastic conversation fist on even made it was really good catch up with bronze. I A good yeah he. He told me that you visited Soda. Yeah Yeah we did sign one percent. Yeah it was good fun saying I kai or well. Let's good I'm I've got I'll I'll I'll get you to cancel out of here and we'll bring in Detroit. Thanks Peter for joining US pay financing. Tell us deep throat. What's happening with voluntary assisted dying in Queensland? Well the good news it. Is that the report. Report has been released We might have lost it amongst all the news the Covet nineteen was just small so segment on the news. And and that was it so Night whether that's just bad local. Maybe these young someone in the in the government not mentioning any nine that someone neither talk. Mafia joined the high amongst although I don't know but the other thing is that A rate sir. It's two hundred ninety practice law. So let's talk about the governor. Visit getting but happy strongly happy with the recommendations of the committee and You know there's a little niggles and we could pass going to those But the interesting thing is when he gets the end of the report. The various hobbies like alien fakes report and also there was one. Greens Member only on the phone entry committee and that was Michael UNFOR- my Miwa and he went in his little it as well. So one guesses Ellen citing the diaper more thorough games are against site. But the actual. Committee's conclusion was the Egal- hit assisted donkey. Action is is pretty pretty. Well I I would. Hopeful went oil and everything bikes. There are things that you put up. Yeah realistically you and hit. The other thing that was of great interest was that the recommendation was to Follow the legislation model building the draft. Bill that he professes will mocked in the in white from. Ut have been working on prolonged. On so I see this is. This is an Isis for recommendations. And and when you think about this is really great news from one point eight because we have legislation or written class. Laurie is an equal right. This list up at key Oregon Legislation Ray the gut. So it's sort of like yeah. The committee majority can be has agreed with it and if he wanted we could just ahead and do it right and they have so. That was as well find out a bet that would be Lindy Wilmot. Then I think you'd be the womb. What you're saying. She was on feeling. She was electoral of mine when I was at University. Can you tell me a great so this is why the legislation in Victoria and other jurisdictions is that right. Yeah we'll there's a there's a couple of Inferences and pets. We should go into those The the actual recommendations. The committee did go against the Will Martin White Ill in one way. So the prohibition on Health Practitioner discussions if I and so that's something that you know amongst the On within the community poking and there will most why bill months that the go ahead I wanted to be openly. Talked to the book is about this. As an option for the will end up lost The committee that was one of the recommendations of the committee that they win against this channel. They Shiite Saturday night. I saw you cut it a little bit honesty on day. Three Cy your sign that. The committee wanted that that the The the the proposal was that health professionals could initiate an end of life discussion. But the committee said I. It's gotta be it's gotTa be initiated by by the person themselves. Yes and that's employment. The Victorian they is strikingly disliking role. That's one disappointment so against visible not focusing for going with Queensland. I'm not super upset about that because I think in the the the flow of consultation with patients and and the people in that impatience in that so the situation that seeing the a health condition that on a very regular vices you get a load of communication. Which isn't necessarily book. So I'm just wondering if you in the in the in the flow of that The audio would get across and they will barrier would be the TRICIA would cross on reality. I'm not super concerned. Except for the fact that may be if you have Family made bids. They must be so against. I will jump on any slip. Possibility of punishing the health practitioner. That so that's a problem and in the other states One of the issues was that you needed a terminal illness. That was locked. They did finish you off within twelve months or something like that but this is one does not have which was kind of tough to be able to side that something was going a caused the death of somebody within within a taunt Frein Like that so this one's different in mind. Yes yes this is just this. Is Molly this one in the pack that spoke in recommendations it's nice specific timeframe at all In Victorian whistling straights of six months or a terminal illness in twelve months or a problem with Logical problems in your yard. Generosity is diseases so in this take the one they just they levi on that and the reason for that is they recognize that. It's very hard for on on such and US don't mention it's not pasta dope is. It's a hot seat questioning doc. Hell long have I got an and all you can see the range of possibilities And inevitably you're not gonNA get perfect and so some people you might say. Oh Gee they got lost a couple of years and a month by there and gone can be as stock and and and and that's You know the the Gulf of as many go wrong in the NFC wise. I think the committee recognized that will the majority committee raking ause that and Inside the Will Maltin Been White? And they've made a specific revived in terms of just stunning person. Y'All has to be facing in the law. Yep and then. The other jurisdictions also have significant canceling requirements which not size significant in this visions will is that. Roy again again near that's right. It's not a mandatory a major three condition And a joy of people will have to Kinda cans like just because you want to in a moment. Why does it should mean that you you have to throw off the colors? Yeah yeah any other differences between that and what we've seen elsewhere year the the other one. That's a little bit of a concern. Is that a proposed bill They require that. The doctor has to be present in the person's. Self mistake ministries. They are assisted going. So if you think what you any other ones I own by me. Baio Stra Heavy legislation but on. I will be the person's thawing. Recharge anything very much I can just take the medication and they pass away. And it's as simple as that but what I seem to get from Will Molten boy is a worry that maybe something will go wrong and the hersal type the that medication incorrectly and soon have a horrible ending. Because I just haven't done it properly and so I just think that might be the rationale behind that but really I think. That's an unnecessary Sifi. What would pay seizing To to to kill themselves and what happened just tablets with new episodes. That's right so what. How many would you? How many beak does it all and I have no idea. The other thing is it would depend on what they decide. Astrid oil Queensland's gotta use that medication that has been a few things floating around on Beechwood southern lights common thing. They're used in so you those issues going to be up there but that's going to depend on. What does have what they prick? Reparation is an what springs have Assad. But it's GonNa be a few tablets because mostly you're taking because then we'll be usual so the does But there are other things that they like in in the In United States and states to have the option of links which don't even have a Bubba demon they using ends advisor pains and fjords and and A real oh and In pita bulk is in that it really trying to stop the Hawks night person and make sure that it completely trump signed toms. So I guess it'd be a healthy school of irritation jeep. Drop on the gray on those something like that so I just got elderly. People for example can have trouble swallowing just a normal medication. Sorry can have difficulty swallowing so yes might be yes so I can save the the rationale behind it but again. A situation of putting in safeguards that guy in Mexico liquid. Or that's right. I I have no idea what will be used Takes Right. You can't have a doctor administered as injure veinous Kenya. It's got to be something that the patient can take themselves is not it? Depends on the circumstances wrote so the way that is moist. Zahed is to ease the patient at a self administer right that gets rid of a few problems in in worries that someone's trying to force some of the deal But there is a provision will equal the doctor to administer the medication and in cases where people council be or intravenous injection. Yes so what do you? Reckon the chances on dates right of of dividing the live the government to actually implement one of its official policies. Well let's thing. Isn't it done? Be some resistance. Rather tall is my impression that your risk premia herself of coming out inside the premier self while in the pocket of in Florida Support for And I guess it's playing politics this assignments. What is this? How mention chorus comment? They've really bought the their own recommendations by system potty rather than on what are we hearing at the pump maitree Inquiry of meetings so The problem I've got my Mustang meet ongoing negative since the cut of nineteen thing is blowing up because it's just sucking the oxygen the other any other sort of news in India was public engagement and I just think it wanting to happen. That's my personal opinion. I think it learn having a knowledge should be pushing and all that sort of thing but I think it's not bulow. He's he's a plane. You should adopt e could because it seems to me with Kevin. Nineteen the Anastasia Palace shy is just copying what Dana Injuries. And if you just remind but he's already implemented something like this. It's easy to just copy that as well then that getting through the web getting it through. Yeah with the low code. Nineteen is not going to last for a while now exceeds twelve months and then it will be didn't married well and truly so twelve eight months. That's not too long for us to wait. Considering how long we waited for it Sipho so you just got to keep the pressure up. I'm afraid dates right. So that the city covered across his behind. You can get him hog absolutely and we will be keeping up the pressure. I'm not going to be an even though I have gone a bit. Negative being on the with the meat. He you have ups and downs. As news comes. Many press told the relatives in that like with everybody else. Does it say that you get using the changes just out from things but we keep the pressure off. His bisky is just. We want any auks getting in in the public sphere. Very much at all and So you mentioned that the opposition was against it. And Are you aware of what the The Catholic Church had designed. I don't Detri- well if I saw on. The News of the North and Archbishop Coleridge was giving his Tuesday with with the the George Pal thing having could and he had an interesting. I think ours. Unfortunately haven't yet quite yet. But he was strong at this was I was listening at one of parliamentary public Public meetings or about this and he was he was giving evidence and he was beating the fact that suffering and be goofy. It's not necessarily a bad thing you know it's not it's not necessarily a bad thing so that sort of got everyone's attention including bus. The alimentary meeting members Because suffering is a is a big deal. If it's you this movie the suffering so and I was quite surprised as I sat through all one of the Brisbane Of the gum or meetings and What a number of Christians got up and said that we shouldn't be looking at suffering as being necessarily a bad thing they didn't say it was a good thing but they didn't say it wasn't necessarily a bad thing and that was that So that was a recent you sign that he said that about suffering. Yeah that was that was in Not Not not not recently. That was what he said during the public imploring Meuron getaway evidence. I kind because I saw a quiet from him. As report is coming out recommending that it be introduced and This is an article from the Catholic. Weekly he said. Be Cutting on. Detroit'S THAT AGAIN. Did you say that? He came out in favor on chooses. He came out against it and he was quiet in the Catholic weekly sighing That the recommendations Kaime is nice surprise quote given the cultural todd of this time and the resources invested by the supporters of physician assisted suicide. But there's a doc irony that these recommendations appear at a time when the Nineteen crisis is casting the shadow of death across the planet And with and with these recommendations and any legislation that might follow from them. That shadow grows DACA putting out a message to archbishop whole reg- At Queens have been in existence for thirty five is on many members have died and some of them that suffering and this is not a new thing that we've been pushing all this has been gone long and bone before nineteen exists in a long time before any of the public even knew about them running the bars. Look I think the Arnie's that the Catholic Church would purport to comment on ethical matters? Let's the aren't not only that is so you know the DOC shadow of Covenant Gene Costing the shadow of death across the planet and yet they claim to represent some on the natural superpower is us bear is also for everything including these microbes. And yet you know that Kallas or or the supernatural suit. Bigger I was palest- anything about it. I mean talk about our anion. Talk about Lacking self awareness that God I think that all you want me just run through the has said at a little bit of report at the end of a majority report and you want me to run through just the things just to show you how stupid the like. I actually had trouble following the logic it just. It was so trivial So just just the few things I've picked up and they're all in this. They had a big problem with the fact that halfway through hell cave was was separated from volunteer assistant going so that I will give to reports. And that's what he's done. Elliot airy identity air and then the Valley of bullet is don report was separate and then he had a big problem with that. They said you can't separate the two but they ignored the fact that during the public employees they were asking questions of people giving evidence and they always asked about in care at the same time. So it doesn't make any sense and that will worried about I saved that. We can't do volunteer. He's going all your Elliott is under-funded. Well hang on these guys and beating palpable in the past as well an on side We were allowing them to fund it. I'm not sure bet. And they. They questioned the reliability of the pulse. They just said Yeah. Look we really trust overwhelming Wilmington Number of Queensland's actually sold every Posey get with eighty percent lawsuit of overpopulation. Agree with you if I can go on but I got one of the equites. Here is the conclusion we've come to not be seen as belittling people's beliefs rather a criticism of a flawed process. So they don't belittle peoples belief that dog a good idea. They decide it's criticism of a fluid prices but the price is being perfectly normal. It's gone through all the normal channels of of a parliamentary inquiry committee inquiry. So this is the prices that followed all the time. There's nothing unusual in it and the very extensive. The committee held forty-one hearings and received four thousand seven hundred twenty nine submissions. And I want to thank you that this was a fluid prices and it always sat through the most recent ones at one time which was non-scheduled and I was really impressed with the performance of the alimentary media members. Really intelligent questions the questions of fair and better his talk but only got a across a brief and and then they come up with this. It's like hanging what happened between the this enrolling report and it can be prices that in the end. I just have to speak with ATI falls it as you're listening to the opposition members during the hearing you. You thought I'm on come on board who you thought our at least been quite fair that I think that will fair but they were asking questions. I guess from the spaces so they was. It'll be the It was evident in a sense and one of the L. Impede members of show he was he was gone. He was against it but he's still ask intelligent questions. It was nice not wanting to be one sided and Younger Guy I couldn't read him and I must be out. I think the NBA's will he was on the outside just reading but he was actually the the based hopefully the performer in some ways because y'all squish Musil's mangles so I was really surprised This report was trivial and Offering logical. Well it's going through. The price is probably it's official lighter party policy The the Powell side that people wanted that anesthesia Palestine hisself Not Beside came. But he doesn't seem to be much at all if God it'll be guessing if this doesn't get through it will be side guessing if it doesn't it's a yeah. We do have a problem in that it will require you. You'll go for conscious I think actually It bringing them also said that she wants to brand conference but the thing is England C. Can you really site as the conscience by even the backlash against ice-free Ellen de Parliamentarian Suv all the The law reform I think it's GonNa be a hard ask was on the show. They hit up above the Arabic And I think we're seeing a little bit of the problem with the euro the Ellen p your by us the head of the National Party and the liberal I combined together so we've lost that sort of A little bit of Roy against the list in the in the in the mets on considered Politics I suddenly lately. It was a National Party Taika. Yes not Authority also recently. We've lost Johnston I met US. What the by-election will was in Columbia? Just recently and she was in that she was in the Olympics. She was a big supporter of justice. NEON as I can't work today. Date Throat With Your Committee Will Don Sipho but keep up the good fight. I will very good. I get them. Can I just put in one little one little thing before? I go Supporting a an apple in the growth from University of Newcastle. We does flu tracking every every year. And this is doing this for. I don't know how long he'll be. Twenty is north long. Remember not feeling it though every wintertime on Mondays. I saying that. A small near ritually sickens billion bet seasons. If you've had in the past week this year they've started earlier Nevada some questions to cover north think and they want more numbers across Australia Doing this includes to avoid an indication of what's happening with mini so just another way keeping tabs on the thing that's really easy to recommend it and Lead with your listeners to Illinois Board and And just get this is It's actually just with what it reminded. What's the address of the want? Ww loot wrecking. Which is one would knit. Okay they idealist not hit event and Philly in the Senate valuable whatever the question areas and help Ma'am trekking dot net. I'll put a Lincoln the shy nights as well. Thank you very much now. Dates right okay. We're GONNA move on. We will catch up with you next on. Thanks again fine thank you. That's good so that's all done just three of us. We just put it on a full scream and she'd stat across the right. Gentlemen Goodall Dies Aus as we Danielle separate little boys before we move onto more KHURANA. Res Corona Virus SORTA stuff just able to mention is raffling out office entity guys one on the list. I didn't say I'm beginning to think there was something on beginning to think that there is a God because you might be aware that Rugby Straw is in financial trouble and is close to going bankrupt. Because yes they've got The Dan of a television deal after this year in the Ola issues going on that are affecting old sports and rugby seems financially to be in the whisk position of any of the my sports side. They are in danger of going into liquidation. He's the good news that is not going to get paid out. He's his out of court. Settlement was in installments. Ha ha ha. Israel should rugby Australia force to declare itself insolvent fillet I would be treated as an unsecured creditor in depending on whatever assets rugby was able to muster would likely pied. I only a few syncing. The dollar do Alice Alice. Allison is say good. She's in the chat room and she signed up to flu tracking already. The guy that's how easy it is so good on your alison. Yes Faletau. Wouldn't that be sweet justice? That would be beautiful guys. Sound a bit malicious. Well malicious tool. It's because he's he's responsible he was just ignorant very very old A very talented athlete. Just think he's dom he says he's largely responsible for financial problems side. The fact that that would be one of his properties that that that's divided to because some faithful Olding the current CEO responsibility. In fact I read that as a push on at the moment. Sir Some Excel wallabies playas who Planning to challenge for the Ladyship of Rudgear Start and I I think they hold. What's the name Castle Castle? Rungs of the holding a responsible. So bad manage latest. Yeah but I had a three million dollar settlement. So that's not gonNA help the financial health of an organization. Sorry Tony why would I don't think he can simply for the management? Jeez I wouldn't. I wouldn't pin it all on him but it certainly I'd say he's he's A cygnus timing of the problem in my humble opinion but not saying the accounts but anyway I think it's I think it's delicious justice. That's how it works. Its Way yes. It's him as Ross said in the chat room. It seems God didn't want him to get the Pie here. Yeah let's talk now on corona virus sort of stuff and Goes I'm interested in in the cruise ships that basically we've got one in Western Australia. That's got still like four hundred passes on or whatever and government is said. We're not letting you into the country you he can be refilled and some fresh food and water on your get good going. And there's a number of ships which seem to have been reduced to just staff but some of the staff ships can be up to a thousand people and they all unite in danger of getting very seek. He's the thing and then from from all over the world to us so I don't know what sort of payment they get but as it largely and some contracts and from what country they come so some of them are probably in oil pay a little bit uncharitable of government to treat them or is suddenly you know I mean normally got volkmann cruise ship. Mom and then problem now is off. I thought it was a little bit Callousness to me. That's in keeping with the government's attitude bite people in general and I'm not signing all I've got I'm not saying I've got a solution to these but what I am saying is for the people who were up in arms over the Tampa for example or He said what what do you mean? You can't leave vulnerable people abandoned on a ship Who need medical assistance or or whatever you know like ways you sympathy? I just don't hear anybody sticking up for the cruise ship inhabitants. Who are I? I'm not saying that we yeah. Well you're the. Yeah but I don't know that I want them in our hospitals either that I just find it interesting. That there's a lot of people are very sympathetic to people in general who refugees escaping from applies of terror. Whatever but the General Laura is. You've got to help people out. Who if this'll is in distress? You're supposed to help them. And if my my daughter was a dance on a cruise ship us a guy and if that were either on the planet on would've been expecting ice Western country to type in at least the passengers and help them repatriate back home so I just find it a really tricky one. I don't have a solution to it but I just find the silence from what would normally be very sympathetic. Lift on by people issues to be interesting. I haven't heard a peep out of anybody sign. What about these passengers? We can't let this continuing. I think I agree with you. I mean you've got to. I would have thought that you could bring them on. Show you could put them into quarantine for four and then after that you could say right now. It's time for you to Heim. Heim you've got to pay for it yourself but you go to the country so that would be what I would be doing. Well yeah but it just seems that we're not willing to take four hundred five passengers and and do that. Yeah I can understand that because the hotels of BLOODY GOING BELLY UP NANCY. He could you think he could turn. You could turn a luxury four or five star hotel into a detention Santa which you could have four hundred people in there I in rhyme then led lay. They ruined. They're going to stay in there. An for a full on and then after that you could just our license or makeshift. Star Hotel Jason. I tell him to them as well because they usually absolutely yes in know various types of facilities. You could tend to hospital. And it's not about that but I just thought to myself if he wanted to quarantine. Maybe you could quarantaine people in a for a fortnight then at the end of the Fortnight Etcetera. You still not allegedly the hi. Toby Got Mike. You'RE A travel arrangements to get hot. That's what we are doing with. And then it's I was listening pocock this morning when I reckon that. This is the Death Bill for the cruise ship industry and I certainly hope it is. Because you know they're polluting buddy. Think it's absolutely ridiculous. Now of carbon dioxide that's produced by these bites You know I'm not sure of the facts of hearing ahead on this podcast this morning that you've got the situation that if you look at the amount of carbon dioxide is produced by the cruise ship industry that is equivalent to half the world's automobiles for a couple of hundred bucks. I think I think that a very dirty version of oil Surprise me but I also They registered in countries of convenience. Like the Bahamas will Panama places. So the night pie. Any tax Yeah they are able to operate ships on Lusa rules. I would if I were registered in Australia for example The positives cruise ships. Well I can't see any obvious. I enjoyed my time on them when I went on them. Sinai Look people able Armel if all wanted to fling. The county's that's the good thing about cruise ship keeps carries a lot of people. Keep some in a accommodated keeps them in a concentrated space and basically God's them in controls and wherever they go so I I see the plot mines Otherwise if I stay not on a cruise ship. They need accommodations. So you're going to find in countries particularly developing countries. The kind of be cutting down forests. Oiling more bitches now. Only environmental degradation that happens when land is developed Results mostly I think the cruise ship has something going on the other hand there beloit on on small communities for example on the Greek islands. When when always look is obliged on small communities folks if they want the money and they're willing to accept them than to manage Bennett interesting. Hi Paul can you tell you that? Yeah off 'cause you're cutting out a little bit and it might help the audio if you tenue video off but What are we going to say is one of the problems with them is when a like on the Greek islands? My wife and daughter were telling me that I was dying on a Greek Island. Once yes What that does seem indulgent and during the day these decree ships would call in and and these little Greek islands would be just flooded with thousands of people and completely changed the Nitra and feel of the island and then by the afternoon when I left island was completely different Because it just wasn't this. Massive people that had been discharged onto the island. I believe that happens in places like Venison and other places where I've Iran a small community really quickly and of all I've because Allison in the chat. Rooms see she said she had a good Tom Cruise and would gal again. When there's no pandemic I just think people's memories of the ships are on not going to forget this moment in time and I think The last place I would wanNA be trapped on would be a cruise and A people might have short memories and in four years time. And it's all I ever and is a good deal. People will gallon them and not be assured that everything's fine and and whatever but You could take a while before I'll get back on but my experience was a little bit different as well because when I was on My daughter was a work on this. He was a dancer inside We had extra special treatment and was really will we will. Well looked after On the day trips and other things it was made all of the frames. Wasn't you normal? Cruise by any means sane. My experience was different being on one. Have you been on pole and you hear me and you hear me. Yes video again. I'll stop these video of you know I've now I've never been on a cruise such I have travelled by ferry In Japan China. That was not an not a luxury. A study was a very a bike. Six Chinese was alot also terror police to break but I got the impression you're talking about a ferry and yeah you're right. It wouldn't be anywhere close to To a cruise ship. So have you been almost got one? I got no desire to go on right. Yeah so anyway. I just think it's interesting. Why we've traded the cruise ships stand without people doesn't seem to be shine Whatever on another got an answer for it but I'm just surprised there's not more people outshine yet. Anybody has any Shyam Anymore. It's supplying but right. It's the honest thing to myself if these cruise ships get billy up. Kobe Nike do you. I suppose the other question is do you want them docking out ports and that sort of stuff here until says Thomas? It's Tom to sink them. It's one of those questions that we've got to resolve. What the Hell's going to happen to the future. I don't think they're in danger of sinking. Disconnect can be forced onto the next country and who will refuel and restock and then force them on the away again like exactly. When does it stop? When Willie's people get ill at off let's just go to London's I mean say for a lot of for example would be a lot of Philippines for example Wickham cruise ships. I maybe they'll doctor the Philippines and half the crew believe but then they'll be stuck on me now laid the technicians in the works to actually run the ships. I know what will happen and let them into port knowing that it might leave because like if the Philippine is get off the ship will never leave like it. Just can't see how that one get solved. It's it's a very tricky one where they had somebody being generous and putting the end up saying but we didn't seem to hear much about it anyway What else are we hearing about? What's Virgin and Qantas Virgin? Potentially aiding byland any thoughts. Gentlemen Bilad. Oh It's a private business Scott CH- chance and why should the Australian attack by have it all Disney world? Your mental in and we were left with one carrier is so what do you remember? What happened to the ACC the FAA's went up so bloody high. They had eating created the situation. That you could have a third carrier come in which was virgin which chi-ming and then pushed cross's Dan again now. I don't have a problem with the Beila provided that it comes with chase to the call. Now one eighty joe have heard was if color will does take up that one point four billion dollar line that they're talking about then that would be equivalent to eighty percent of the shares in the in the Virgin group which doesn't really worry me because on that'll escape at government ownership and if if Qantas once signed sort of deal that's fine he's GonNa put they go to offer up. Quicker OFFER QUANTUM SHARES FOR THE COMMON LAW. That so now. I can't see AL enjoy it. A gun rack to government ownership but if he's vice between that and they and declaring insolvency. I think he might have not choice. So I have a problem with loaning money to these companies and you give them a twelve month two year period to pay it back if they died at convinced to equity. That's not problem may does styling wobbly won a million well on that. A good crop is starting by. If you've got the you've got the airline stock and you've got it now because you're GonNa get him quiet shape now then you've got something that you can sell potentially down the down the track you couldn't with you couldn't with quarter quarter valuable physicians future so that got all the stock down the data track for a reasonable profit all just blow the minded blitzer. They couldn't have blind the money complaining about that. They couldn't have fallen. Yeah what do you think? Well I think I think I think it's I think it's to have some sort of guarantee you have equity in the company then just to hand the money. I've and just heisman hyphen private. They're going to do the right thing. But surely the federal government sold quantites because they ideological position was the F. S. no business in business. So I mean if if if becoming wasn't it wasn't live at the decided to privatize Qantas regardless it's some. I just can't say that. The Australian public has an interest the bailing out a private business because they have managed fits. Well he actually blind the companies. This is cool. They run completely by surprise. Well apparently you can because I read that Soul Woods it had Quite quite a lot of what? What what the business is. But it was worth quite a lot allowed. Their capital reserves to to be rundown basically two zero out when they get into trouble The strengthening taxpayer's expected to come to the rescue. I don't think so. I think that's the case with cones because quotas I have been told has about a billion dollars in cash in the bank and so psycho lines and that sort of out of two billion. Don't so quotas Kipah. We tried they way out of this. Rodas needs any veggies. On the other hand does make a veggie probably doesn't eat Lichen get a That's won't get serious about that. Can Get from the normal normal business. Lenders were textile well because I was just simply saying you know at least at least if the Australian taxpayer takes equity in it. They've got something they can sell down the track but if they wanted to. Do you WANNA bail out violence that I'll do believe Bil- that succumb with conditions attached on and have a problem with that is violence if does violates conditions had a condition that said you eight months to pay it back or convinced equity now got no problem with that polar be- really bad result if we were left with just hunters us because being a monopoly lutely the the process would. Guy Sky High. And it's not good in any industry to allow a monopoly site in fact where there are monopolies. You've been bright them up. If you can say we Connolly Qantas just to operate as a monopoly and it would seem in the current environment that if the Jin Was too full Iva. They might not be a buy in. If there's a bike. Great let that boy bought but if neither by then it really. The government should pick it up at far sal price and what. I was reading in the Michael West. Blog was that rather than Tyke Shays because when you take shares you're injecting equity into the business in your effectively saving the value of the company for the existing shareholders. So what the government should do is just tight the assets of the of the airline and buy this and that then leaves. Ola debt with the With the current entity and you start afresh with a brand new business and that doesn't file the existing shareholders which includes people like Richard Branson and and the likes SI- So I think that's what Michael West side bunch of other L. Miss in a bunch of other airlines so If there's no buy we should sai what you've got we buy fair price for the assets And we'll take dies and that's going to include the The staff and they're an all of the IT and all of the infrastructure that the airline has and too bad for the existing initate. You just faults so I see the problems of actually taking. It is a much better audience so that was from Mike and so so that was that other thing that's happening guys with all this stuff is like. This is an historic moment in our history and out government is spending an enormous amount of money on big things. Any really important decisions are being made in. How is closed? And it's going to re hyphen for one dying quickly. Possums happened today wasn't and enclose again for another six months like what Christian Porta the attorney. General Christian Porter said the. Mp's have better things to do than sit in parliament. He said What's what is the point of that if people want to sit at the during the greatest economic crisis stras experienced and read practice and procedure of the House of Representatives. Good luck to them. But we've got better things to do now you don't if you've got nothing better to do. You need the infrequently in the parliament and you need to be answering all of the questions that we have about what's going on. It's actually just supposed to be a possible to the public. Yes so the fact that we just meekly allowing parliament to just disappear for six months without a pap- from the public is really disappointing. Even Jacqui Lambie Consi-. That's not the right thing. That's not democracy Jacqui. Lambie got a handle on this than Christian or the attorney general like. It's it's a sad state of affairs. It's it's dangerous Paul. Use Them. Yeah so a bit more specifically on Coruna Jackie in something good. Yam in other news. Apparently China began began to lift the corona virus restrictions on citizens. Well according to the shovel the shovel citizens afraid to go back to doing whatever the government tells them to do once again. So according to the shovel the changes made the Chinese people who have been strictly locked in monitored within the hinds for months. We'll be free to go ahead. Sorry to be tracked and monitored so you'd agree with that twelve main site with delays now. Had We talk that much during the week as I mentioned before and was a bit of a facebook discussion between US twelve main and with Warren and the on the issue of China in the US? I and the rhinovirus and I'm certainly detecting in what I'm saying on social media People wanting to Blanche on the what has happened Combet and side that while. I didn't tell a will quickly enough what was happening and I were being Deceptive about how bad the virus walls and even some unlike our group like the Henry Jackson Society which is a key kind think tank is saying that other countries should be China for allowing the virus to get out of hand and totally disrupt the world economy and trump is signing things like he's not cooling at the corona virus. He's calling the China virus in different things on saying it seems to me that is an element of of wanting to put the blame on China and hinged point that whole do you have any thoughts on that. I thought I think it's kind of ridiculous to suggest that the rest of the world sued China. Because that's as we know that stood. It's not going to happen but I I do think that they have a lot to answer those. It's well known that the Communist Party In the communist body if you if you're not at the top if you sort of halfway down towards the bottom you don't want to give bad news to your superior and apparently that was the nub of the problem and they started detecting what they thought it was a serious virus infection in in. Wuhan the The Communist Party carver hottest were afraid to tell his superiors really what was going on. And then when the Communist Party bosses did find out. I think they did what they usually do. Not Tell the world anything so quite a while and if the head of given the risk of well the heads at travel restrictions sooner I think yes. They could have prevented a lot of fun. Escape of infection Solo. Do you think I have locked? Riots do you think I do you think that's a function of the Communist Party or is that what happens in any organization like do could you? Could you take the view then virtually any organization People at the top diet like hearing bad news and punish subordinates. Who are troublemakers? And who rise issues like you? Don't think that that is a is an where people in charge of. Large organizations tend to prioritize the the the business or the entity and its ultimate survival. Against what would otherwise be ethical decisions like E? Don't think that's what happens in institutions and organizations well minister otherwise to some to some extent. It probably does but we're talking about a whole country in a match. The is an outbreak of a virus. Somewhere in the style you can. You imagine that the doctors would just bought a tots if the government wasn't really doing anything about it or wasn't taking it seriously enough. Of course they would and would they be censored of course like I would be onto the newspapers and TV stations and would would get out. There's no way the government in Australia would something like that under wraps and a no do. I think I'd probably would even try it so it's a different political system and now. I don't think you can say that sort of thing would happen in Australia. Inappropriately in any and well. What a bad in the United States? You don't think that so I'm sort of Crackdown on dissidents would happen guy. So people are outspoken. I ca captain crazier. Who was on a commander of the aircraft carrier Theodore Roosevelt? He a letter to the night spoke out and what happened to him. It was an what happened to him. Well N. and dismissed but he was dismissed so the students. But you see this is exactly the sign a scenario where you're saying there was a Chinese doctor who rise the alarm. An was silenced. By the people in charge and here we've got all the one day the commander of an aircraft carrier who was silenced. By the people in charge of can you imagine any captain of any Giannis? Nival ship getting in a getting getting into the news. Why that American captain? But it's not gonNA happen. I kind of I couldn't have imagined a commander of an aircraft carrier being sacked for that until it happened while I was. I point is an outrageous decision. Look I'm we? I don't think he deserves to be sect. But the fact is it happened in Jonah would not have heard about I. Did you hear about the doctors Who are asking full better protections for their patients and staff in? Us hospitals and the hospitals responded by Tim and adding their employment really. Yes doctor Lin. Got a link to an article or have failing him Washington the nurses at in Chicago a nurse Lori Mexico. It's won't colleagues at Standard facemask distributed by the hospital. Not Safe. She brought in her iron hydride in ninety five miles and was five k. By Northwestern Memorial Hospital. She's Nestling Hospital. Assigns should he should but even cannot keep going with a few more or in Pakistan dozens of doctors in Pakistan protesting for lack of safety equipment. They The police came baton-wielding and probably got the demonstration by the doctors in more than one hundred of them were actually fifty three. Were detained during this protest. So it's a Niger. It's a nightmare of organizations that are on sighing people whether they communist or capitalist or something between People in charge at high levels Hanish whistle blowers and this happens whether you communist or not sign on sign. Yes I'm saying yes. It happened in in China. But it's not just saying it happens everywhere but you're making false equivalence drive us saying that. This sort of thing happens exactly the timing jaw. America's doesn't start or anywhere else. Simple data the Chinese his a not happen in China for a very very much fried of getting on the wrong side of the communist five below sorts of it's it's a much more authoritarian state of couse people and of course people are going to be much more scared to to to go against the Orthodoxy. Of course they are but but I just I just trying to get to you. That what I'm seeing in the media is this client of Goddamn communist Chinese. Look at what they've done and and it really is well. That's just happens everywhere. I kinda. It's happened here but it just happens every way and this is just yet another example of an institution protecting itself and silencing one with that come along with that at all. Let's utterly false equivalence. Hear that from people on the list. Say Oh yeah you know you? Just you dispatching the communist Chinese now. I'm sorry I'm taking to ask Atallah -Tarian that which does not traded in the way that I think that should be treated and they don't even try it don't does properties. They look they doctors up at night when they try to alert the government and the will to have very very much a problem. I'm sorry but I cannot imagine that happened in the if some you know. Some important doctors are any conduct. Doctors in the United States dealt with tr. They were six to silence them. That it'd be straight to the new studies traits and it'd be telling a song at a haven't looked them up but they've sacked him nurses doctors and the commander of an egg and the commander of an aircraft carrier. Like I wouldn't have thought I would have thought that was possible in a Western democracy when when somebody is talking about this so this year but we're talking about the UNAUDITED Status Donald Trump. Will you not? What sort of as a fool US and obviously In a he he he more than likely had some role in in the second across Garrett gaps. No no but look well even more an indication that the executive in America is getting too strong and too powerful and is able to act above and beyond the law. So what we're witnessing. In America is a is a drift towards a more titled -Tarian State Where The the the executive I a donald trump can rest consigned. But but that's what's happening site on my argument is this is happening. All alive in the World Not Jostein challenged. Forget the have elections every full you. Yes I can't well. What you're saying is travel. What you're saying is it makes difference for that. We have a Democratic Olympic Gobernador Communist. The resources on sorry. It isn't really isn't now. There is a difference. But here's what I WANNA make. The point is is obviously the? Us is in trouble with this corona virus and lots of people are going to die in. Trump's live dealing with this is to blame China into and to turn the American public against China in basically we've just got either a Cold War with Russia and now he's amplifying called wool with China and end all on sign is on saying in Rolette Wings Social Media and other things a real anti-chinese sentiment which to me is just it's just building up the groundwork for yet another called will this time when China Tallahassee The you know the trump administration. You're asking best obvious issue now on order of trump But this is the diner I'm saying in in singling out China and as as a Communist China look that to me is working out more of a Cold War complex than if we simply said you know what large organizations everywhere I do. This will punish wishful blows. Yes it's happened to John. Shooting China has signed problems. The rest of us have rather than China is the problem that we have and if we get rid of China. We don't have a problem like that. That's the time that's the angle trawling to promote is is. That sort of thinking is not good for us for that reason. Cincinnati at all. That's total the thing but on degrees you is for a fine just different. What CA- strongly that show Anyway just a little. So I'd Nice d listener. Scott yes I think you both rot because I can understand what you're saying Paul. You know I agree with you. That China Eason's I normal country. China is a brutal dictatorship thick craxton very population witnessed Tiananmen Square witness. That it was forced to sign a confession when he said that he would. He was forced while the police that he was forced to sign the confession. Sign that he was making stuff up. He's now dead Tain and that is the sort of thing that goes on in China however I also agree with treadle to. It doesn't help that. You Cook Trump over there. Saying the Sean of ours yet. What else that is. The challenge of ours is something that is starting to creep into those people such as my brother who watches the right wing as and that's stuff he's referring to it on facebook as to the Sean of ours. It's not the China virus is the Kobe Nineteen Bar Sec- curvy. Saad I- Corona Saas two or something like that Yoko size to something right. That causes covy tank. Now that is what the virus is technically coal. Yes it started with China. Yes it started at the whip market but if you wish to criticize China the slaughtering wild animals. That's fine. You can go ahead and do that. But you can't just label a virus. Something that come in John Colt John of ours. That doesn't work. Hi Scott I have not seen any audie. Except trump referred to it as John. Vause has line I have the Senate also had also had on ours. Yeah the Wuhan of heard of heard that being used on scorn is yeah it is. It is a hill of a concern that you got these kids that actually size stop lock that I have. You ever heard of the two thousand and nine. Us I flew swine. Flu Isn't it was high twenty one but yeah it's going to an inland. They didn't we'LL DIDN'T SIGH ALL. We're GONNA call that the US. I in virus like high twenty one so I am. The other thing is you guys are aware of the story about The Spanish flu and it's naming it. Yeah it was nine to spiny flu. Because during world will waft about entry year to be an so spine was vice tree where the first cases were Not necessarily detected but actually discussed in the mainstream media inside people just assumed that it started in spine. Which didn't and a lot of people I've prophesized. The actually started stikes use in the European trenches. Wasn't it It could have been in. Naipaul's it could have been in the US but The Spanish was sort of Independent during the war that time and they were happy to talk about it whereas nobody else was because of morale and in the end. Spying lumbered with with the With the Spanish flu when when in fact it did not start they say Spanish flu misnomer them right but also we got here Craig. In the chat room chairs. The virus is size called too but the disease can Kevin Maizels Mikei as if In rebel is the virus as like maizels is the disease and rebel is the virus. Nineteen is the disease size. Cough to is the vars. Thank you crikey. That's good is a bunch of other stuff. We could guide through. Do you guys have anything in particular that you wanted to sign. We're coming up to an hour and a half. I think longer chickens will be considered as workplaces Scott Morrison since Chechen considered as workplaces to services. And give them some flexibility under social distance thing rules now. That just screams way. This government's priorities. Are you know I've said that? Churches can be exempt from social distancing rules. Just for the long weekend. It's just big as belief that you've got this situation that you've got a situation that you see. I don't know if they can allow people to actually congregate other not so an extra production stopped the singers and audio technicians and other people silence so they really law livestream the Chech- sentences other But apparently I couldn't have allies if it wasn't a weird place. Sorry I still getting special treatment as a workplace mind too. That is if it's a workplace. Does that mean that they should be taxed? Say Exactly Yeah Great. Anything Watch anything. Particular style wonder why moby instrument eightieth on pointing out in Creil honest of the other religions in general in these cycle chilies Prime Minister. Who are talking to the sky area. Asking for help when it's the bleeding obvious that there is no sky. Ferrari Is Disease. Does happen without the intervention of a scarf. Here in a while people in the mainstream media talking about this is he's a big story at a great opportunity to advance secularism in this country and everywhere else yeah meredith doing very well in pace She said the prime minister expressed concerned concern for those affected by these unprecedented times and calls upon his God to show mercy and compassion so what might be the role applied by this God in the worldwide covered. Nineteen pandemic their full possibilities. He is not aware of it. He is aware but palace to intervene. He is happy to allow to continue. He does not exist if the first is true then God is not allowing if the second is true. Then God is not all-powerful. If the thirties true then God is cruel a as the prime minister. Mahmud sightless hyphen and pray. That the full of history but he doesn't think yeah we'll see they're saying well there's a bunch of other stuff. We could talk about that but you know what is it a little bit odd. I am a little bit. I Don Nineteen and it's just been consuming so I'm really looking forward to next week Gosh it'll just be Hugh and Matthew and myself and now be dividing does the Abrahama. God exist Obviously you'll be selling now in matthew resigned years but I get opening remarks and rebuttals will arrest and I'll get a chance to ask some questions in D. listening to you will get a chance to ask some questions in the chat room but As we go along and but if you like to lie semi you'll questions early because if they really good all Mike I definitely asked them and that will be an interesting to bite so It'll hopefully distracting from what's going on in the world so that will be Tuesday next week. Seven thirty that'll be an interesting one. A full on debate absolutely right gentlemen until next actually quick. Thank you to the patrons I really let me just fine. The patrons and Quickly to see show engineer. Try John Lane wine lane by the way Coming UP LANDON TO YOU. A third and a victory twenty seven. The VIPUL haven't heard from me for a long time landon. What's what's happening. Lands in looked in Thailand. Roy I okay so you can't be back to China I I serve. He's conducting classes and that sort of stuff on the Internet Ron. I won't say Landon Harry you've got plenty of time to synthesise bake caught message. That he does he's got Internet and he's got to compete. I get to Wino- Yama Allison Steve. Tiny Wool Jimmy. Spot kind burge. Brahmin been met Robert. We'd be wrought Harris Pal Matic Man. Dominic de Messy Liam McMahon dive Rhode Island. Daniel Could Harry Watson Peter. Gillespie kept in Doomsday. We Watch Andy Dowling. Murray Weipa Melinda Adam priest professor. Doctor Dentist Will Glenn Bill Craig. Is Matthew Alexander Allan Cole Wiper? Tom Dolan Tara Camille. Kim Broom Donnie. Darko Clinton Riggs Kevin S Dire Straits. Five tiny eels yet. Another pink fan at something else saw him and let me know. We need to do a book review Graham Hennigan Mark Clark citizen six David Kindly Lloyd Bird. The twelve man Fain Andrew Jackson Yam blue in shine ingram and the non-patrons Danes threatened. Ken was the beneficiary. Mister Ensign Corinne Madman Beverly in Diane from Redline Digital Wine Salesmen and Jared Terry. Thank you all for being patrons. Youtube d listener. Ken Become a patron get a website. Click on the link. Dolor showers all we ask and our record actually that episode that we did with the Steven on economics. Scott did you get to hear it did hear it. Yeah modern monetary theory. I've listened to 'twas convinced yet back and listen to it a third thome. It is very very interesting. What he's talking about because he's telling the whole fits tolerance hit and it's almost like he just completely ignored the hundred and thirty billion dollars that the government's just put us into the Hawk full. Yes yes it is. It is something that I'm having a lot of difficulty getting a hitter end. I have come a hell of a long way I thank you very much. Yeah so that was invaluable. I reckon and absolutely hockey getting back. Because it'd be very distinct. He what he has to say on other issues too and Alan Cholera on. Abc HAS BEING REFERRING TO MON monetary. Theory quite a bit because he interviewed the other guy who's One of the other guys who's prepared and Anyway Ellen. Kala was signed the right that they reserve bank is buying bonds in the secondary market. It will if it keeps up its current right it will have a quad all of the debt In about four months on so effectively. The that's been created boy. This budget will be simply backing government. Hanes With about four months. Supply is tricky. An raid said. Listen to the interview. You will be convinced cy year. Listen to that one and I'll even thinking I'm all even do a little video on with some diagrams with flowcharts or something has to some extent it would help to see a bit of a diagram but yeah so it's interesting. I've come across a few different articles in the past week. A bet all the debt that we've created in hell we ever GONNA pay for it and as I'm reading the monk thinking to myself goes you're completely missing the point on this debt. It's not what you think it is. I think it's a one of the better episodes. Yeah right I is very interesting on that night. Thanks poll thank you Scott. Thank you everyone in the chat room. He contributed it was very good Send me your questions for the debate next week. Looking forward to that one boy for now is considering in now Mr Speaker. Australia is not a secular country it is free country. This is a nation where you have the freedom to follow any belief system you choose. Secularism is just one. It has no Greider. Climb than any other on society as you as Senator Joe Lieberman Sade. The constitution provides for freedom of religion not from religion. I believe the same is true in this country.

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Episode 231  Media Bias and Ridiculing Religion

The Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove

1:11:42 hr | 10 months ago

Episode 231 Media Bias and Ridiculing Religion

"We need to talk about ideas. Good ones and bad ones. We need to learn stuff about the world. Will we need an honest intelligent thought provoking and entertaining review of what the hell happened on this planet. In the last seven days we we need to sit back and listen to the Iron Fist and the BELVA glove welcome back deal is not yes episode. Two hundred thirty one on it is the third of December two thousand nineteen newly newly talked up number. Two months does not instantly finished it is. It feels like a long time since the three of us set together because last week I was away the week before. Scott was it feels like a little bit of a mini reunion for us. It is a little mini. The reunion guy. I of course Chevy on with me. I know side with me Velvet Glove. But he's not always with you. Get I travel trivia. Get April get a listeners. Scott good I drive I get I everyone out there in podcast land. It feels good to be back to get the IMO catch up on on the events of of what's been happening. So what's on the agenda strange one this episode. I think I'm not sure where we'll end up as usual but we'll give it okay. So he gets tyler. Yeah it was took Angus Tyler. Tyler Rhodes scholar Woah. So He's not a stupid God wants noticed. Cheap it go I but he is a class of a minister. Isn't he bit clumsy. Yeah a bit Clumsy Body Hill. He's bitten off more travel insurance and he can eat. So what's he done deal listener. He accused the the Sydney city council spending lots of money on. ABC's Andy decide visits. This was in response to the city council declaring climate emergency and rotting the the Iran minister asking them to do the same and he right back and he says well if you got a problem with climate change. You shouldn't be flying so much I apologize no ours. So he accused as them of spending Fifteen point nine million dollars on travel when the real thing it was less than six thousand and he traveling by bicycle classical. It's Fitsville seems very low doesn't it. It's that was domestic travel in either say's the expenditure was seventeen hundred bucks. That's all that's all. Get around much too much anymore. Or they wouldn't be flying business class that sort of process they have not had that might have been immune Ingraham bus very often but this is the whole point. Clearly look the whole council is traveling. Be Clover Moore going Abreu once a year or something like that in any event. Hey he said that. He got information from the council's website. And then he distributed that to a newspaper and say look these guys doing but what are you distributed and what was on the website with two different things so the website had the live figure of listened six thousand and Hey provided what looks like a some sort of -ducted copied document of that. I really weed thing where it looks like. Somebody has changed the figures and sent this often and he sort of stuck to his guns for a law was influenced admit that it was a mistake but now of course the question is will. How did that mistake happen? That's a huge blunder. London on his he is responsible for this is like someone was trying to set him. Up doesn't it does nice doesn't it. Don't you have somebody in his office. Doctored some some documents and sit here. It's hit with this. If you silly enough to use it does only randazzo without even checking it. This is the whole trust people in busy This is why the back benches really angry at sky for not sacking him because he's accident prime. He has cocked up at a number herb occasions and this is just the straw that broke the camels back. You know it's just sixteen million dollars. I mean there are how many members of the City Council Dong Uh at Most Sixteen d honestly believed that they spent one million dollars on travel. Well a few of our police police do get it. Get the travel bills up. Not that much. Don't you think I think if you looked at the federal government's ministerial travel bill. It'd be in many many millions. He stopped and thought about it. He should have. This just doesn't smell in but it's hard to imagine that he would've you've doctored a document. Now why because it's obvious it's Kinda be found out it wouldn't have done it. I think someone said him out. Frankly yeah Christian poor planet. Somebody's office I wouldn't like to nine nine so I have no idea it's very. It's a very strange situation. But Anyway Kazimi Insect Ni- and this brings to mind Scott Eni's gone by the most minor of transgressions enough for for a minister to follow nine sewed exact or at least down while she was conducted listening to this podcast again yesterday and it was WAS ABC podcast Carmen. Which one it was? But they was saying that They had been a number of they went through them. And there were a number of ministers who fell on this sword and unite for the most Mina on the fences and one of them was a guy had to fall any sewed because he's walked brought back a Paddington bear. That was Mick Young MC young. Yeah so he and then we had to declare a lot of stuff or when you come into the country. So he's he's walking into a stuffed Paddington bear and then there was another minister land television that he declared it as a black and white television rather than a television. And the Judy was judy was much higher on a color television that well it was. It was four dollars or something like that and he had to. Resign is on these matters of honesty. was you've saw a phone. That says something and it wasn't true and honesty meant something sort sort of integrity. And what's happened here with. This guy has a lot worse. Even in the whole thing about being a ministry. You can't just say Oh it was somebody else department because you have to accept responsibilities to some extent of what goes on in your department particularly when you're the one who's adopted and run with it so and encouraged newspapers to run with as well so he was clearly trying to defame clover Moore in the Sydney City Council. Absolutely was that's the whole point this the state of the world we're in at the moment is this is the sort of Trumpian development of politics we can just stick it Out You can be back it up and Si- nothing to do anything you Mike May Account when you something systems rely on gentlemanly conduct which doesn't exist unthank- exhibiting great depths of loyalty to his DOC colleagues is loyalty to the all. We just elected him into the system. That's into the system. I'll tell you but this is the problem at the moment is that people can do. You know that's not the most outrageous conduct but you can sigh the most yet righteous do things and get away with anything now because the news cycle can't Nile people anymore. It used to be that the side with those ministers whatever every newspaper front page would be onto them and that'd be a consensus of media a- all the commercial news and the IB say the newspapers the radio. Everyone would guy from but now. You've got such a polarized polarized media that and the sheer volume of the information. I think everybody is under to Nami of information every day. Now Oh yeah it's just information overload and I don't think people have time to process it all in in a way that would make them sit back and think. Yeah you know they should have done and should have been done. That's true but I was gonna say is like the Murdoch press can just ignore it an and Tuck it ally the bottom of pied seven if I really really wanted to. But and then got the television stations. The sign can ignore it if they wanted. And you can even have things like Sky News ran a completely counterargument and shaw nothing to see here. So it's harder to Nihil lease people because the media recite. Pauline isn't isn't collectively civilly acting the why would have back because he's gone by saying tough hold people accountable and maybe is there a greater degree of apathy in the general public about things. I do think this so kind of cynical about politics in general that they. I just think it's just another one promptly just another scandal. Guess what can I do about it. Yeah exactly yeah. So that's sort of the most interesting part of of The youngest tile. Did you know that there is of course Morrison rings up his police smeeton says Just tell me pat me. Investigation running. He hasn't looking and I could see that. The light potty didn't jump on on that very quickly did they. It took them a full twenty four hours Beautiful Patricia Cavaliers I can't remember what the name was. The shadow treasurer is zoom anyway. She was talking to him. The guy from Quinton. I think it was him. Yeah she's told him to someone and she said to him she says well. Do you really do you think it's appropriate. That Scott Morrison would pick up the phone and he says well. I don't know it's never happened before. We're thinking about that anyway and thought about it. And they went out and then went after him and Kane in CA- in parliament. Laurie actually these very slow reaction. Because he flagged he says. I'm going to ring the New South Wales Police Commissioner or find out what's going on. Yeah he's funny. Bit is the place. Commissioner didn't have skies current my ball number and he's fine so he just ignored the first couple of calls. That's Athens will die. Where former night as they were forming? I'm a little bit. Subscribe to sky in in the sense of used to be Naib and he would have talked to him. Lots would have been really tempting to DECI- a ring up might cause he tonight in east but but as the as the problem with the country you should respect for the doctrine of the separation of powers and norling to FIA Beyon- obese to be interfering in that is was persona Malcolm. Tamboli said he says it's a bad look. It was. What did he say? Says it was probably an innocuous ankle in cool. But it's not a cool I would have made and it's the it's a lack of education as well shows things shows a lack of judgment doesn't it. Yeah it's it's you know if there was a criminal case on you wouldn't comment in the news. They out. You can stay out of it so anyway. So that was that so. They've got an investigation and in the name of their investigation is cold strike fullest Garrod. Garrett couldn't tell you what the family they he's a computer generated rain nine system yes so like with cyclones or something well psych lines are actual names of the people people whereas guard is completely made up name as it. Apparently it got some rain generator. Side previous investigations instigations for example strikeforce emblems which responded to accusations of improperly obtained warrants strikeforce wrapped apt which targeted motorcycle gang activity. Oh that's one sounds Nas an aggressive move strikeforce Harra bill which investigated this. The with suspected confirm to involve Guy Height. Crohn's I think parallel is a word. Such parrope's yes. It's it's computer. Generated using common nine splices or related events in history. Anyway this one came up with jared and unfortunately ah by the way listener. There's a there's a permanent language warning on the podcast should be listening. We will be swearing in a moment and a different points threatened podcast so anyway if you go onto urban dictionary urban dictionary to see some. I'm very interesting definition of Garrett yes does it is Garrod the dumbest motherfucker in the Halloween. Well maybe it wasn't a deliberate choice. Maybe police have had specific which is for that reason. So it's all Roenick. Police police have a sense of humor to believe some of them they. That's the whole point. Is that the police. Commissioner apparently said this guy scars. I'm concerned is nothing. He so nothing nothing to see in terms of that was guide is reported scammers. Just goes report was that he's justification for not standing down exactly. Yeah Anyway. So that's so that's Angus Tyler. And with all these things it's sort of cover up in the subsequent of the incident up possibly causing more damage than the actual unusual. You think that will say I just want to slip in here. We've previously talked about. Brendan I kneel and spot. And so he of course as Yucai election campaign on at the moment there is of course Johnson and Cohen Woohoo. And Assad here the the gap has narrowed between the Tories and labour. It's Dan to five percent point. He's from the Tories. Still are right down to the five percents. Now we're on which means that the country staring down the barrel of another hung bowel which is not what they need. It's not it's not gonNA get brings it resolved it will end up dragging on and then me say anyway. I think the Clean Power Crat Andrew in charge. Well he's certainly sullied. The good name of the monarchy. Hasn't he has. This is the thing you can get away with anything that is and I and I can't family will continue the family. Business will continue. I can't believe that he has that. The cops haven't uneven. I've been to fall on him. Well I think the treading very carefully the British police aren't they they they showing do difference in it. Didn't all that happened in the US anyway did you have in the US but sure they should. I know it didn't happen all in the US now there was a there. Was this young woman she came to. UK This young woman one who is making claims and she's not that young anymore but she claims that when she was seventeen eighteen that she had sex with print Andrews three times reckon conroy and one of them at least one of them was in London Bryant in what was his estate and he has a flash could be in London and another one in Paris and New York and Miami. Hello everyone in the chat room. Wheels just checked up Garett an urban dictionary and says he likes feeling. It's thanks for fact. Checking us will thank you Ross. And sees in the chat room make yourselves no one and let us know that you're yeah so anyway back to Brandon. I knew so. He's writing about this election and he said well the Kuban misters as he described them are already already complaining about the press. And the line. That I- Neil Neil is taking. Is that the that the Labor Party is complaining. Lining that live the right wing press has hypnotized. Brian washed the a lean Nassar's. Yeah and the low in the low information people is what they refer to the most now apparently yeah and and I mean that's really insulting. Isn't it. Well that's the there's a great neal vision of what the of what the live party is complaining finding about but what the Labor Party would is. We'll know actually complaining about the massive right wing media campaign against us. That is he's just flat out of a firehose information. That makes it very difficult for us and really brandon. I kneel in the article is saying you really signed there too stupid to work at two in the library sign. Well No. It's the flood of right wing washing that the of course if that's all year here that's what people are going to think. But we and I have a coming. An enormous amount of information is extremely difficult. That's what they signed the have the Guardian. The Guardian is British publication. It's hardly right wing. It will well very left wing if you ask me. I can talk about too. I can't the BBC's ABC's quite left wing as well. I can't talk about the Yucai. Situations specifically is denied but do know inside Queensland when the Federal Election the local newspaper the Carrie Mallon every regional piping in Queensland on the conservative side of exactly the spectrum. Yeah so there's is a whiting there that assay. I thought that was disingenuous by your friend. Bruyneel and that he refused to accept that the massive campaign by cashed up right wing media is is the problem and he was really. I'd like to see an assessment in a critical assessment of the role meteorology. I mean is the right wing media per brix. I'm not convinced they are being prowl. Anti Brexit is necessarily Farrah this this year I think pints the Brandon. I kneel thing is lift Iran anyway and I know you disagree and got raisins and sort sort of what we try and do on this podcast. I've been trying to do is is try to cy in need to try and work at. What the Inherent Karen leaning ease of the publication that you'll raining and type that into a candle like before you even read an article it should be whereas froman who wrote it the we even yes absolutely? You see I push back against that idea that we you know we we look at the name of the publication nation. We say oh well let's route wing that's left wing therefore I will or won't read it and I read it but just have in mind when you're when you're raining in the canal. It's hard to probably impossible to do. But shouldn't you approach every single article with an open mind in our open to be persuaded by whatever live a point of view it gives by all means the I ten but also be aware of both the motivation that somebody might have. He's writing it. It's it's like we want to know where politicians are being paid by somebody. Did I get a bribe him. Somebody because that's they might be in some cases but you you need to know that somebody's underlying motivations and think I they're going to be inclined to take it particularly anymore but you're not suggesting that every free writer in the mainstream media has an agenda as such. They might be just doing their job as a journalist and trying to report. Factually what's going on in Dade for example in the Australian you would have Phillip Adams so what he's worth these days you. What is clearly a left-winger writing in the Australian magazines? I clearly but again. That's why you should look at ways as a from. Here's the rider AK got letting mind. Maybe he's the token left-wing opposed. Of course he is. But I think there's going to hide this so should I block my phone. I'll just turn down the volume on your on your defense. So in the name Chomsky you still with me with manufacturing consent was was about the it doesn't and have to be direct sort of us must write this. Why this a thing where basically a news piper? We'll have a the town and a direction and leftwing journalist white apply to the Australian to be the commentator because they neither not going to get hard or if they do they now if they want to be published. We're talking junior ones here If they want to be published Bush they're gonNA have to write something in the time that's going to be acceptable to people. And if they don't ride that time and I didn't get published the Notre Year or two I get sick of it so you don't have to be told straight up you must wrought is why but they can be this an underlying sort of ton to the publication here. What do you think about the Sydney morning? Herald Age Group now. Nine but used to be Fairfax. Yeah do you think they're left right or in between I think the Sydney Morning Herald will be slightly lift but not enough alphabet is. It's basically a parallel rob locations slightly left not as left as the Guardian. I agree with you. I agree with you. They do tend to be slightly. Lift like send lift anyway on this Scola if you could look at somebody like media media biased fact check dot com. Yeah but who runs that is indeed he does and I think there's an inherent vice in that as well. All in all of those things and I have arguments online sometimes with people and they pop up link to media checked dot com or whatever whatever it is and I look at it I think well media check dot com has its own buys soon as they all do. Here's a description spite. See what you think I disagree. We already loans into one. Spot is a British Internet magazine. Focusing using expert didn't use other launched a very old. I thought you signed. They're all into this cloud. That sounds about right. Okay so British Internet magazine focusing on Politics Six culture and society from a libertarian viewpoint. Now see that's take and sparked. Don't describe themselves as Libertarian. Act exactly that you would chilling. Why not necessarily would you got? What are you scrub sparked by Tyrian? Possibly okay if you finish a description night. Clive accounted onto descript. I'll just give it a little bit more as she what Brennan described himself as a mocks libertarian. But he also. I said that was tongue in cheek because he does come from a left-wing background and sparked is actually the successor to a a publication called Living Marxism and the guy who co-founded with him was the editor of living Marxism. At least is an all lefty San when he he said. He's a Marxist Libertarian. tongue-in-cheek what was he saying. He was saying that he he was basically of the lift but he has sort of found the contemporary left to be wanting and so he's sort of struck out on on his tongue in cheek. Now I think the Libertarian party was shaking. I mean he's not a pure Marxist. Obviously he's he's he. I mean seriously. He favors viz worker's rights but he also favours capitalism the free market. I think he wants to create a socialist. Utopia he doesn't sparked focuses on issues of freedom and stay control science and Technology Culture Education literature according to their about page spike. Is the magazine Insane. That wants to change the world as well as reporting we are committed to funding for humanism democracy and freedom exact spot is fine spikes limited. A company I in by Frank Frank for radio and Jenny Bristow finding come from the chows Kabq Foundation and currently revenues generated through donations. Onside advertising. I think all of that is fair enough summary. Even if you just took that and went okay let tells me down who frankfurter eighty is a pretty left of sociologist. Geologist's drawing he's by no means right wing people bring up the fact that the coke brothers due supply some funding to them but they also take funding from donations online. Donations do quite a lot of magazines. These styles including the Guardian and others. But look here's I just went on the Internet and I found this on wikipedia and this is another description. It says as as as you mentioned What does it say that came from a publication called Living Marxism spiked focuses? This is on issues of freedom and state control science and Technology Culture Education and literature. The magazine opposes all forms of censorship. The leftists these days are pro censorship. They want to censor everybody. Who says anything they find offensive? I agree so they're not left well. Libertarians but for censorship when something that was imposed by every authoritarian regime in history. And that's why they're not right wing. They're opposed to this form of censorship which which limits free speech and the free exchange of ideas so so they did very much pro extent. Free Exchange of ideas and free speech is not libertarian-leaning. Well maybe libertarian. But certainly not right wing. You couldn't accuse them of being wing on that point I would. I would say Libertarian Libertarian. On that point and that. That's the libertarian. Freedom issues anti identity with freedom since when is freedom a right wing issue. It's I mean. Lift US examples right. Wing example right wing people of being the great oppressors of the masses right and yet they sank. Now we want freedom for everybody but on things like the example guide before with the news media as complete. Denial that that the the fire hose of right-wing information from from the news media is the problem and he sighing. It's I think he needed to acknowledge that. There is a problem with quilty owners of billionaire ownership of media so he's sitting right wing averts his eyes from the right wing media. And and maybe that's a fair point but anyway it goes on to say it's writers call. Oh for a repeal of libel hate speech and incitement laws of censorship on university campuses they have criticized laws targeted at Peta falls as counterproductive to rehabilitation and conducive to violence. I mean that's a very sort of progressive. Steve I take your point that the focus of of spiked. He's on Libertarian. Issues that used to belong to the left wing the left has obtained on exactly's probably what you so. They sort of traditional fifty. Feel like you know what I mean. I'll skill L. school lift exact all. Well yeah but I mean at the same time Brendan. Are Neal regularly. Sort of says people need to utilize technology. Oh Gee to improve the life everybody Jilin who wins so he's a universalist which is how I see myself. Okay Anyway. My point of all this disease is the media. Inhale we need to know who they are in in. What's going on in their heads when they radiant sunshine nine powerful that is with the election just to finish off keep hearing these stories about? How Cullinan the lighter party anti Semitic the stories regulatory have you ever heard anything to back it up? Yes that he apparently breaks bread with eighth Hamas he's apparently with some of the people from Hamas. I know whether or not that's true but this is what I've heard. Apparently no apparently he husted some identity whether it was Hamas Hezbollah but one of those anti Israel and is Lemus groups now. He has them in the Parliament House. That's fine I apparently according to the but not anti Semitic yes. Could you be the united sympathetic to Palestinians in the state of Israel so there was an ammunition another example is there was a mural somebody body painted somebody probably an Islamist painted and it was a caricature of the old sort of Ju- they all Di Linus the L.. Hooked Nose Jewish moneylender and carbon apparently sore. It and didn't say well let's disgracefully anti Semitic Semitic he. He didn't seem to think it was anything bad. Did he say anything positive about anything. Well wouldn't you think a a prominent political leader seeing something like that would say. That's a very divisive racist and anti Semitic because he put it in front of the mural and said he comment on this. Ah He basically was shot it wrong and apparently didn't seem to think it was a big deal. Now there have been a number of reports in the well in the in the conservative media. Or if you like or on spiked pointing out not only Coleman but other people in the Labour Party and apparently Lee. Some members of the Labor Party have resigned from the Labour Party. Some Jewish members of the Labor Party have resigned in protest at what they see as Edison. That if you a PRI- the State of Israel and you knew the live potty had the position which it does. You would resign for that reason. I don't know I I can't speak for them because it clearly against the study does round. They want Palestinians to be recognized. Is Actress reason could be but it's a bit of an assumption anyway. Not My question to the deal is is is. What's the best piece of evidence of Anti Semitism boy Goldman? Just what's what's the nicest iced damning piece of evidence you've saying 'cause I just really don't come. I hear the allegation but I don't actually hear the specifics and wanting to hear a service if if looking at a mural and not commentating is the best I can dig it up for next week. Doesn't seem much. You're such a serious allegation. You'd think that'd be something very specific that you could say about it. It just sounds odd to me. That look you know these days if you have members of the actual live party resigning from the party. who were Jewish people? You would suspect something is amiss. Wouldn't you not if if not. If the policy of the party is to icicle abolish the State of Israel unrecognized Palestinians easily imagined bless pretty extreme policies. That pulses his. Eric strangled their politics. But it's it's sorry the policies to have Palestine as I separate nation and they have said that the they said did the occupied territories. Were a good start for the band. Razor and Palestine but they also want the Israelis to give up some of the territory to the. That's the policy for every body type policy for Dory's it'd be nothing like that. How do you now have you checked? Well tell me if I'm wrong but well maybe it's something we need to look into. I'm GonNa take a wild stab in the dark inside that the Tory policies is not along those lines suggested that Tory policies probably close to the Republican Party. But I just don't know yeah I kind of Democrats and I friend of Palestine Oughta So that could be reason anyway. Next can I just mentioned one thing about spiked health. This for right-wing Spike spiked opposed the post nine eleven invasions invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. So how is that right wing. And that's good that's quite left wing. Okay what does it say. Stay in counter. What it sees as recent trained in western foreign policy which is humanitarian intervention so called Frankfurt Radi who's a pretty leftist sociologist? Interviewed inspired said that the stance of living Marxism and spiked springs from the tradition of the the Anti Stalinist lipped. He argued that the reason. Why many in the left tradition have difficulties identifying these ideas with the left? What is that? They completely misunderstand. The humanist political position of being progressive in terms of human progress science rationality and freedom and yet be completely anti state. So it doesn't sound terribly right wing from that doesn't to me in this one thing. I like about sparked is it. The libertarian aspect. I I suppose I do. They don't identify as hard lift. They don't identifies right. They identify as rational. hypercritical centrists. I who will go for anyone's throat that they think is stepping on somebody else's toes and that's what I like about them. They like to shake things up and I like they shake everybody's cage and that's what I like Well I didn't like the burden on Neil titled discounted the the effect of of a of a Nedia Barabash. Okay so maybe he's ignoring Perhaps we'll deliberately but what also that's all right. Let's move. There was a report okay. This one was from the Santa Fe. Independent Studies Mm What's wrong with that. Exactly those sites they commissioned appall like you guv Galaxy hold a thousand people and this was in relation to the Religious Discrimination Act and a lot of the sort of results of Econo- favorable to play a lot of thinking. And and so you should. You should ask well. Who is the Center for Independence Studies and according to Wikipedia? The of independent studies is an Australian Libertarian. think-tank Vanity Nine seventy six which specializes in public policy. Research based in Sydney focuses on classic liberal issues. Such as free markets and limited government. So this is the thing actually Fula the secular sort of politics. Scott I think in this battle either. Religious Discrimination Act is that the libertarian saw of the right wing would be against the kinds of the restrictions that are in the religious discrimination act. Libertarians why saluted not enough. Attention is pied. I think to try on beef up that a significant part of her conservatives who are libertarians really object to some of the special treatment in religious discrimination. Schneck think really there is a spectrum of conservatives as well you know. People sometimes tend to typecast conservatives as being of a particular mind set on everything and not and sign with Libertarians. Maybe that's why I am. Not totally opposed to the idea of libertarianism. Arion isn't because some of them are quite sensible. Rational people team so anyway. The last census thirty percent of the population say religion. Yeah they asked a thousand people which is apparently statistically legitimate a valid number two. Paul do you agree or disagree with the following statement. Respecting religious traditions and beliefs should be an important part of a multicultural society. Basically seventy percent of people agreed with that saying fair enough to the next one which is closer to your view you please select one option only regarding expressing religious perspectives but in public like two bites. There should be some restrictions on expressing religious perspectives in public debates. That others find offensive that he nine percent kind of people said restrict religious expression if others founded offensive that he founded offensive. I also found it said. Ah To this one. Austrian should be free to express a religious perspective alongside other views when participating in public debates even when others find that view offensive. He's four percent of Australians. Agreed with that so the majority of Australians were willing to have religious religious views expressed that would be offensive. Snuck it up a but then there's a confusing when it comes to ridicule so freedom to ridicule religious beliefs asked We do agree. With first option. There should be restrictions the right to ridicule the religious views of avas fifty. Six Percent Really Hill seems to be a contradiction with the previous sounds absolutely agree and then Australian should be free to ridicule the religious views of others thirty three percent thirty three. So that's nope concern that fifty six percent why they should be a restriction on your raw to ridicule the religious views of others and this one gossipy closing sizing down. Well it would give encouragement to scum with this religious discrimination bill. Wouldn't it would give him fuel for thinking. Getting people do want restrictions on criticism of religion. Es which is worry. Yeah so and. Obviously this libertarian. In think tank is doing this to try and save some public grants will. But you're not suggesting that I support a restriction off. Well not entirely they'd be against it exactly. That's my point. These sort of libertarian guys are actually frenzy opposition. Even if they're in the conservative I saw so that's a bit of a worry. Fifty six percent said there should be restrictions on the road to ridicule the religious views of honestly uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh so then we've also got to put this on a young on the VDI livestream as well. He's religious discrimination in employment which is closer to European view now Organiz ation should be allowed to refuse to employ someone on religious grounds sixty four percent or five breath by organizations such as schools will fail organizations should be allowed to refuse to employ someone who does not share their religious viewpoint thirty percent so at least sixty four percent of Australians assign. You should not to discriminate employment. That's positive that's the one I've seen on a Bat Munis religious discrimination. I should bill. And that's something that Christian porter should look at and but but he's going to expand it so the bill did not include nursing homes in hospitals. Now it's going to an hey has flagged that he's negative included after discussions with stakeholders and all religious stakeholders to You've seen that thing that I've shared with the national sake. You'll be saying no cat Atta the how. What do you think it's and the industries in such is such a shambles of the modern isn't it do you think they're going to improve things if they start restricting who they can employ like that? What scares the Bejesus? ANIME is being tall. When I'm ninety four uh-huh that you can't come into these time because your guy or that you can't come into this time together with your Partner Jessica? Yes so they might happy prepared prepared to separate wiping out. It is yeah sure. You're rich enough to employ employer on servants in today. You mentioned the other question I ask is on. Perceived divisiveness of religion. Religion Unites Australians. At least as much as it divides US really thirty. Three percent. Religion Divides Australians more than it unites US fifty two. Yeah absolutely So that's something I would say. Historically when the country was predominantly Christians self identified Christian. It probably was a kind of unifying force successfully. We'll probably versus the Catholics exactly but that was but that was just a a clear. Divide into two groups now. It's divided into a whole mawr groups so it was more divisive than it used to be in a sense because we we sort of got over the Catholic afflict Prodi divide and then we created some more divisions and you knew divisions if you lock yeah anyway so that was that that that was that Powell skies guide to delay the bill of course because he's Empowerment in the redrafting outside. We'll see what happens sometime next year. Whatever he's doing I don't trust the Guy Don Trust him on laboratories spawn? Yeah well. He's he's problem. was that that the religious groups said this bill isn't good enough because it doesn't guy fire and that is precisely the point isn't it. They've rejected it because it doesn't give them what they want. He's so they've sent it back and said scum. Oh enough beefing up yes yes this is the whole point. Now I heard this on a podcast like God. I wish I could remember what podcast listening today. And there was some woman who's saying that The government's hots really in this and this is even apparently chose five sky my guy. He's hot noreen yet. Apparently side now what they're saying is that the Suggestion is that they are bafing it up so that they're gonNA force live or to oppose it and then it'll get better. It'll get beaten down in the Senate and then they'll have to say well. We tried side. We can't get it done with walking away from it. Yeah I find that hard to sign and as well as your sky wants scum owes hard and I'm I I'm not sure. Christian poet is hard. Isn't it pulled. His hearts definitely anyway. The groups that wrote to the prime minister sighing. It it would be better to have the religious discrimination act rather than a flawed wine when includes the Catholic Arts of Sydney the Anglican doses of Sydney the executive -secutive cancel of Australian Jewry Strike National Imams Council and the Greek Orthodox Church saying that the bill and it's count four Milton manage the the religious freedom of faith groups. You've got to hand it to them. They're all sides are incredible aren't they consigned that they can they say that with a straight face say again they said it's going to diminish the religious freedom lightish is not. Yeah okay also. I got a listener. Glynn sent me And a copy of an it job that was advertised on sake and this flows director of it and systems integration and looks like a high level it job and let me see if I can expand this window so I can actually rated a bit more than say In any event what you had to do at the bottom of the application it said we need the name of your local parish priest and originates from Yes for an it job in this religious organization so Sydney Catholic schools it's the it person listed all of these it qualifications that number one was entrenched the Catholic faith and at the bottom. It said Let me just see here. Applicants will need to include parish priest contact details in order to be considered for shortlisting. Rodney Hill is just blatant discrimination. Nice she is. Yeah based on the person's religious identity they get away with that does that not violate a concurrent and discrimination late. Ni- tell you a hype. It would hardly because otherwise advertisement that we we think they'd be across the lower. Anyone in human resources would need to be across that sort of law so you would think but they guy anyway anyway. Final word on this as part of all these sort of things where Christian Puerto was being interviewed on this he said asked about his religious beliefs Christian porter our attorney general leading the gas Rod. Same thing really funny. He was not a regular churchgoer but he did believing leaving God quote. It's very dangerous. Not to and quite a bizarre thing to say. It was bizarre but I I didn't elaborate didn't elaborate but I don. It says wanted to dangerous thing. It's it's one of the things that he other. He other believes that they could. It'd be a magic scarf area up there that's going to pass judgment on him or that it's dangerous not to believe in God and the Liberal Party is dangerous for your job prospects Okay that's probably more to the point. It's not Pascal's wager. Is it. Well I think he needs to be introduced to him right. D Listener it. He'd listen to all Two hundred thirty episodes of this podcast going back to the early ones. You would know that we spent a considerable amount of time on submarines it because it was clear from the get guy that aren't submarine. Purchasing decision was one of the Nice flawed flawed decisions in the history of the federal parliament and a very exp- one of the most expensive flawed this in the history of federal parliament and it was bad enough at the time when the twelve submarines we're going to cost fifty billion dollars which was an average of four point one six billion submarine. That's the way I can't see. We said that often but now the comment and I've said a revised figure It's now eighty billion domes and climbing. Well they said that that could blow out as well and we could have had submarines from Japan for listen ability night. My understanding was the Japanese. Were prepared to build the today when I don't know but they would have done a good job in the Japanese bill stuff very very very well and efficiently on time. You know in the Subzero Trevor. Instead we've gone in both both as bloody French. Submarines designed nuclear propulsion system. Always had now we have to have to modify the original designs submarines submarines the run with a a palaces than they were designed for in date has economic than that. It's just it's like you know you're going to wick not man the oath indeed and it's completely the wrong sort of submarine because you only need a large submarine if you intend to carry missiles and your you will. You will be venturing into the South China Sea and attacking somebody but you actually defending your territory instituting some then you need a small quiet hi. It's submarine that can sit quietly and white for the taxes and that's what we should have been getting these These things that'll be white is slow To travel the white and sees I've Ne- China and you can read them to nuclear. They're going to be too noisy. Because nucleus earliest submarines have to have cooler running on. I can't sit quietly. It's just a terrible decision so and then just mine tiding signing these things is going to cost one hundred and forty five billion as well. That's right X.. Number of years at the title and twenty five billion. It's just a complete not an and we could have integrated military with the Japanese more seamlessly than the Japanese would be very good allies for us. I would argue. Well they're really very good l.. It is because the Yanks are actually abandoning us. Yeah we could have integrated with Giannis. Allies as well right Another coup in Latin America. Bolivia Bolivia this tawny the people up in arms in Australia. Is anybody coming. Tiding riding on on the terrible Iva Throw of legitimate government night even the Guardians. Let it pass. Yeah pretty much terrible so say they have you know where is the lift wing media because Nike is stopped insane. Hang on a minute. This was a perfectly legitimate cyclist list government duly elected although they're just being ousted but they were riots prior to the ousting. It didn't just happen spontaneously. It was a lot of civil unrest leaving ten election. And it's been six months of civil unrest in the streets of Hong Kong and the Chinese government still has not responded Yeah they have. The police force has ratcheted up bought. They have remained relatively well constrained and any frauds united the need for change of government than every opposition can just organize riots and then guy. Let's you know we justify a change of government wrought. Speaking Japanese Japanese department store is reconsidering a plan for employees to wear badges when the menstrual writing. I thought this is something that the potato advocate is running to get a joke out of it. I didn't realize it was real. The department store in soccer. A had hoped to encourage bonding by having menstruating staff. We are badge featuring an existing Manga character. Nine say John loosely translated savy say that means sailing period this period quite many complaints from the public some of them concerned harassment. And that was definitely not ailing followed. Her wasn't to be mandated or anything. Yes so it was meant to be on having being more period. Encouragement of empathy wasn't as among the star. Yance good intentions. I think had started with good. Intentions inch perhaps unnecessary. I don't think I mean my impression is most women. Don't necessarily want to advertise any women wanting to wear a badge saying I'm in stride the mind consideration. I can't imagine anybody would be the whole point. I just think did the Japanese just didn't understand that. That sort of thing is deeply personal. And you wouldn't want Ad Nauseam is it. I didn't know that the Japanese as a nation are wouldn't understand but perhaps the the executive staff of that particular Nichola Department Store did understand or perhaps thought they were doing the sort of you know the new wave correct thing you know what looming maybe. They're trying to be more sensitive more human is. Yeah our two main but they went off a bit of a tangent. Matthew in a chat room says volunteer we are badge when I missed my morning coffee. Well maybe we later ranger miss your morning coffee man. What you doing India? I was thinking because I used as I used to. I used to work and all soccer and diamond department store. I'm aware of it. It wasn't the one and I used to visit more regularly but I'm sure I've been there for what it's worth but Japanese department stores terrific. You know they've got these huge food holes usually in the in the basement floor where you can go shopping for wonderful Japanese delicacies. Not only Japanese. I used to buy imported French Cam. I'm a bit cheese their Jamaican coffee. Some bomb it wasn't cheap. But you know I like to live the highlight but I seriously French Cama beer cheese which was melt in your mouth delicious Jamaican coffee but you know and they have really really Nice selection of fun foods and these Japanese department stores Greg. I'm just there it's going to be Hoti. You can be a little bit thick. Also speaking of Asia China wile ringing in Mandatory Faisal recognition on my cell phone uses. Is that just if you started on Sunday. Scott has started said they're doing it. My brother lives in Beijing. He's GonNa get his facial recognition does he if he wants to keep everybody. Keep a Chinese mind well when they purchase is it. The SIM card identities when they purchase an actual mobile phone handset registering new seem car. That's must submit to a financial recognition. Yes quite sinister. Isn't that because from the Chinese point of view Westerners old sign exactly. Let's hope it helps them to recognize him uh-huh when he's standing in the roof group of West so you know one would think that He wouldn't want to be recognized anyway to win so wants to be recognized and tracked everywhere I go by the government indeed worrying development very worrying but not surprising and yes the way. The world's going isn't it's that it's that blade runner sooners sort of the future and it's not going to be limited to Chinese I. It's a racist everywhere. Eventually you had that thing that trebek disagreed with four corners program that we were watching. It's Red Flag Red Flag that trevor disagreed with the head. The that there was a a university black who worked on facial recognition then went back to China and Saudis ways and made a government out of a company that the government's now coming in quad fifty percent off evening. Got The Chinese Communist Party. Any fifteen percent of this company. That's Kinda near export this technology around the globe Bob to every police force authoritarian tyranny on the planet the rational nixed. I should mention we go to voice a voice mail message. Oh apply the now. Can we hear it. Yeah here we go John. What am I doing well? I'm going to listen to the on Fist Velvet Glove podcast. Yeah Ah yes I don't know why. Listen to sometimes played a doll. uh-huh sell I'M GONNA get my dollars for two incomes encounter. Just keep destroying. Not this leaves this strike Lodhi Communist Hippie. I'm going to get my dollars worth no no matter what. Let's see what this strike episode is all about the interesting. You know this man some of the most intelligent you you have made all thanks very much. Landon thanks Landon. We've had a bit of feedback recently. Some more gentle feedback. We'll get our feedback a bit light up defending guy but that was back to China a Chinese company mostly or partly owned by the Chinese government as board one of the dairy dairy producers. Right in Tasmania as well. Such a win. I were but it was an uproar about them buying their business. Do you have an issue with the Chinese company buying not necessarily on the face of it. good you were having a problem with it but as this article points at it was previously by the Japanese and ultimately Mitsui if it's on US soil kind of if we have really comes down to it and we have a major problem. I mean it's here so can always bob border food products. Because that's exactly what Julia government did when they when they banned the export of live animals to Indonesia so if we ever end up desperately short of milk at the Chinese a bathing it we can always buy in the export of milks who Jay. We'll obviously there is not border this because there's such a huge demand for milken China and they want to capitalize on that and the Japanese did iron. It apparently just keep dropping the price because nobody else wanted to by signing already. Yeah isn't that odd. Yeah well there was some blowback on this now. It was another podcast. I was listen to a couple of weeks ago. And they were saying that The Chinese were being very Tricky you bet the excess the excess of the of the milk to the Chinese market. And that's why the the Japanese price went down. Because who's the the the Chinese had distorted the market and the choice on. Yeah that China is were saying e couldn't get access to the erecting area because it was owned by a Japanese company and then that that lowered the price and then I got into the Chinese coming in and buying them. That's yeah well that's kind of clever business. It's capitalists as is list and it's just you know. China is a unrestrained unrestrained capitalist economy It's everything's for sale including government decisions if weight watchers says it's seemingly an issue when it's the Chinese reality is that Canada is a beget lane boy in recent years but weight watcher. We did an article not so long ago. That said the Bahamas. Thomas was that was one of biggest buyer of land in recent times. Not The Bahamas companies. He's is set up the tax break. Yes countries yes but companies registered in the Bahamas Moorland than any other nationality Ships registered in Liberia. Isn't it. Yeah and why we would allow that to happen to disguise irony when I was a HAMAS says. Wait what yeah. When I was a kid that the yanks the biggest landholders of they might still be but the Hamas might be catching catching up near the Bahamas because well if it's based on area if you control some really huge exactly you met? Reinhard announced currently owns the biggest kettle station strider fifty percent. That's how the other fifty percent is Chinese minded standing these march on. They think it is right. Time to thank the Patriots Sean. Journal cry John Land. And why Noah Jahmai the beneficiary. Allison Steve Attorney Caitlyn Jimmy Spud Kind Brahmin match I Robert Rod Palais Madman Dominic. Liam dive squeaky wheel. Daniel Harry Pita Kept and Doomsday I I I didn't watch a Andy. Murray Melinda Adam Professor Doctor Dentist Willow Glen Craig Matthew Alexander Pool. Tom Tarot Camille Kim. Donnie Darko Clinton Gavin John and new patrons Tony good on your tiny for coming aboard. Also the non-patrons Titans Dean. CAIN was the beneficiary Mr Anderson Corinne Madman David Beverley and Ann friend of the show and also I just finally really new Patriot supporter sidewise diamond from redline digital. I was having a problem with their website and he And helped me didn't charge. And I said congratulations nail patron. We'll listen if you have a website particularly using wordpress. And you need help Damian aiming from Wrigley digital and that means that Sean does have to help me at all with spreading that got in the bee's balsas was Wina. Landon Hod Bottom Bronwyn Dave Adam Caitlyn Zach Captain Doomsday. Friend of the show in tiny will Mr Anderson and Nubia. CBS sports at Glen Bell. And not drinking a one fifty lashes and it could be either from Bronwyn or Glenn. I couldn't tell you can cap or got to cotton's on the slandering Florida thanks to buy and when you arrived promptly dropped the draft Brian Right. It's amazing and eh a sign from God could be. We Watch wants to keep drinking when you watch it says you interests held the largest amount of Australian lane at ten million hectares your interests. Thank you watch out. Historically they were for a long time we still are wrong. Apparently haven't sold any of it. Yeah do yeah. Let me say we're going to link to an article by Ken. Mallette comes back then him much recently. Interesting article where wins magnette immigration much slightly really being in the news and he was basically describing how Europe has basically basically setup countries from Libya to sedan and from naugatuck Turkey as its new sort of frontier and the paying those countries countries to basically create a barrier and stop people getting across to Europe and sort of the new form of imperialism that when the people talk well if people do talk about Europeans willingness to accept refugees you'd have to counter that by signing Ziying Leslie. They're spending a lot of money with some fairly dodgy characters who are prepared to conduct some terrible practices in order to keep people out so that was an article from Kenan Malik interested in that topic but really when we started Scott. Three zero was big. Topic is probably more people. Whatever whatever time and terrorist attacks with the KFI but it's really gone off? The boil doesn't go in the long term ago. It's probably just been displaced in the immediate sort of in front of mind of most people because there are other things going on my better half watching years and years on ESPN and that's really very interesting. Youth Easy Niece Amount Monica. It's a thing that sit It's gone forward in twenty twenty years from now and it's looking at Britain and there's a populist prime minister who has just been elected and she's out to fictional draws fictional drama documentary. I know documentary because it's sitting twenty years Tom. She's talking about The concentration camp and British invention during the Boer war which was and she said that you know no one. No one ever remembers that because it worked worked and she's sitting up concentration camps in Britain to house all the immigrants until they die and that sort of stuff. Anyway it was really quite interesting because because it's She said Myspace. She said it's not going to stop where always going to have movements of immigrants and that's the thing and I thought to myself Jay. She's probably oh undoubtedly in the future. There will be lots more mass migration absolutely and if a strategy if it goes to heal and a handbasket. I'll be one of those at wants to. Ah because where would you go. I don't I just get out New Zealand. Everything is you would have to close. The would have to close the border to strategy and absolutely because they couldn't say this back they couldn't tell them what your convicts come over here that they couldn't take twenty twenty million people every day in which is what who would be wanting to leave. I don't know what what the population distribution in New Zealand. Because it's Sunday four four and a half five million people altogether. Apparently Muslim would live in. The city's just like you wouldn't they. Would you know Auckland. Clinton Auckland Wellington Christchurch. Well that's a long way off. It's a long way off. Yes yeah it's it's a pretty nice plus is very comfortable to absolutely but I. I could foresee it Tom that they would actually close the border wrought look I. I was contemplating. We got some feedback and I was contemplating Guide through it. But it's GonNa take a while and I think at this point we should. We should stop in modum make you sound like a just a bitter old gonyea moist. I'll probably leave that finished year justified. Bitter we'll come to that lighter say Mike Dishonest Sauna slightly shorter not usual. Mrs Pistol be happy so I'd bottom wimpy well really eddie money's but at least we went on strike road idealized confident. Send some love if you enjoyed with the podcast. Send US some feedback. That would be nice and send some articles if you've got any interesting ones topics that you want us to cover that. We haven't covered libertarian publications. Tyson's you want to look into when you're reading stuff at the check. Who is what's their agenda? Everyone has an agenda of something from the Chinese his Communist Party. You want to be very very very suspicious of anything that bridges. This is the beauty of this podcast. If we can just yourselves on the back is that we can say whatever. We like. An went unaffected because this isn't agile. We're not relying on the income we don't have the boss who's GONNA potentially sack us and we don't have a client hill that we have to keep satisfied like somebody so he's relying on this sort of thing for living would be thinking. Oh if I really Site Things About Doc game you lose twenty percent of my audience and are you know. I'll have trouble doubled paying the mortgage side. It is one of the advantages of independent podcast. Lot's of freedom that yes while we struggle to find the libertarians. As we love our freedom indeed. That is a unique aspects. There we got an all right. Good Talking Don. Thanks very much Jeannine cars.

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Episode 244  Coronavirus (COVID-19)

The Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove

1:30:00 hr | 6 months ago

Episode 244 Coronavirus (COVID-19)

"Suburban Eastern Australia an environment that has over time evolved some extraordinarily unique groups of Hamas sappy. But today we observe a small tribe akin to a group of Mick the gather together a top a small mound to watch question and discuss the current events of their city their country and their wealth to at large. Let's listen keenly and observe this group fondly known. Ask the Iron Fist and the velvet glove as welcome back the listener. This is the fist in the velvet glove. Podcast again at the top end and we. There's only three of this. So we're we legal at the moment for the right things. Agoin Motley might be a problem but anyway We're GONNA look at the world and what's happening and Gosh. It's interesting todd so I of course in Trebinje Iron Fist with is always. Pull IT OFF. Man Greetings earthlings. Sometimes we this Mike Easley and on this occasion Craig deep throat. Welcome aboard thank you. Write the behavior and Scott of course is in his bunker in regional Queensland and he's busy doing stuff I think moving towards telecommuting not. He's busy in the sky being lighter. We're not sure but Scott for the moment chime in light them. Well gentlemen anything interesting happened in the last two things you my goodness rhinovirus coq AU Vin Code. One thousand nine hundred nineteen official name. Now we're gonNA talk about it. You probably sick if you might be sick of hearing about it but height. It deserves episode. Let's face it so we'll we'll try and provide a different sort of slant on a few things and and come up with some new angles to think about and see how he got someone for those who don't know Craig get deep. Throat is a retired jeep. A little bit of medical knowledge could be dangerous. Need to put a disclaimer. You don't take my voice over the Internet so it's a long time since you were medical school and a little while we're going to ask you how we got to be making a vaccine but we'll come back to that but okay so the moment. I thought what we should do is got the light statistics from ABC ON. Just the numbers. You've been hearing about this virus in what's the current count. What do you think it is fifteen hundred hundred Tested positive in the strategies I would say about sixty Bihar than that will be. Two hundred and fifty is the ongoing seventeenth of March. Four hundred forty nine so an increase. It was picked up one hundred or so the last four hours right. If you had to guess which site would atomised odd sign newsouth well. It's been Sydney from outside long so UCF wiles Two hundred and ten Kaiser's next classes Victoria. Naughty four and Queensland Seventy eight so substantial amount newsouth at lyles then hands them guys and UCF. It's interesting I think Sources of infection so halland these people these four hundred ninety nine become infected and the choices that I basically came in from overseas with it. They contracted it locally and we just not yet so at the moment they're sighing thirty two percent of the current cases where people who bicycle boarding from overseas and they know that about eleven percent will likely transmit it and the rest are under investigation on now on no data whatever side so not so much local like at the moment sighing eleven percent out of one hundred ninety nine hundred we say it's roughly fifty he believe contracted locally so I like it for example I was considering going turn of events in a cinema on Thursday nights me too. Same thing we've been. I'm sure yes and because my elderly eighty five year old mother lives with me. I thought there's no way I can go. But if you're looking at in terms of only fifty people's I found that we can save a she'll have contracted a likely but this the wrist with to me. I'm not going so if you look at it too. Early from a risk point of view is a heap of things in life that we do which more dangerous than that faking. Strictly by the difference here is you can inadvertently a lot of people like your mother. Yes my wife is a person at risk of so. That's the difference isn't it's not just you that's affected it's others and also people you don't even know yes. Yeah Yeah Yeah and I figure that feed is time. It'll probably anyway so just could be used to sit at high podcasting or whatever I'm going to be doing. Yeah and the other interesting one here in. The statistics is attempts of we said thirty. Two percent kind from people bring it in from either says and which country do you think is responsible for the most? Got a good good all year survive. Indeed it is. Yeah so coming into Australia. Yes so people from the. Us bringing rhinovirus Twenty eight we've got account of the next is Italy on eighteen China fifteen because I was still feeling Iran. Fourteen Yucai Tan Philippines. Eight diamond princess ship. Seven Singapore sixty by six guys on dance buying France Switzerland Korea all the way down to somebody from Cuba Australia. Abu Dhabi wanted another guy. That's interesting the. Us They responsible for bringing in the most. I've got feelings about the US that I think they're heading for a complete disaster that country in turmoil and commentators in the US itself sang exactly that the the US government is so far behind getting a handle on this and they have tested so few people that they are going to see an explosion of positive tests once they actually get their act gave. They've not done much testing they. They can't how many people out there are actually infected. Because some people think they just got the plane home lot and. Yeah Yeah Disaster. In date statistic here We say come back. Some way in terms of integration spinning duped and all. Yeah so we'll come back to the. Us I but a huge man of trouble so Later Scott Morrison of cities before into the fall is like normally disasters good for politicians. Because you get to appear authoritative Out some money. Emergency money and give the impression of being in charge provided not saying as being responsible for the disaster. That was the problem with that. People say well. This is caused by extreme weather in unit side. He he filed on that one because he was held responsible for the Bush. Far Tile big time in that one on this one with rhinovirus. He's not saying responsible fair enough for for caring and interesting that the big the big mistake he's made. Sifi would be way he said right. We've gotTA STOP ALL MY Sporting Events. Any congregations IVA five hundred nine more. He said fraud. And you said and we'll stop that on Monday. It's very convenient. Not Too broad busy people so through that. And he's playing this. Taghi dead forty dead assign assigned much that he thinks he's still run with it and of course. I'll be watching my shark. He's on the weekend like he's running then facade. He's trying to live up to. Its also on that fraud. He made the big mistake. Which was the photo thing of him. Shaking hands with Gladys Look in New South Wales In Britain and that was plight over and over again on the other channels And that was straight after all these lectures from experts saying Dona Shake Hands Dino de will is is doing it. She obviously didn't WanNa do it. She was holding back so that wasn't a good look. Yeah I can sort of forgive that because I now it's a reflex. He just died realize minister. He should have been briefed about that. Don't shake hands with anyone in that room. The optic wasn't very important for someone in his position. Yeah so our friend Alison. Who's been on the program in the Chat Room? She might even be there now under nephew. Allison but allison had some instant fine. Because she was the one who spotted the hub the hill song conference so so she didn't wait sighing on massive. Hilson conference two weeks finishing this weekend in Sydney theme is kissed. Tens of thousands of people from all the will tightly packed in millions of tax dollars opinions best friend and mentor. No wonder there is no shutdown of mass gatherings yet. If you were a suspicious person on a trip well spotted well done. Allison is she had a fever. Because that got retweeted around a shovel. The people had great fun with that so I think it would not surprise me. If there's something something to that he wanted to. What's shock easy? Mind yeah having said all that so as I said politician of a disaster We've just had the disastrous sports roads. Affair Move we couldn't think of a more corrupt bunch of dealings going on despite all that is poll numbers. He's up three percent high kidding. Well the Scotty from marketing Hessy's focus groups and they had telling him to do these things slowly Teflon Scotties all that sports wrote stuff and and he's kind of authoritative three percent. It's just cynical about politics. Does right of course win was the last financial crisis? The Rudd government poured a huge Manta money into a stimulus kept destroy. Your out of frustration. Line Swan was declared Treasurer Finance Minister of the Economist. Random. The Planet said. Well done with the exception of the Australian and opposition. That's that was a complete waste of money. Should never have done it. Knifepoint doing a stimulus package. Thanks for the corona virus. What's Mars stimulus package? You so in other words the sensible thing yes yes atar. I've spent the last ten years because it's not like the one that ratted. Well now. It's according to Her Majesty's government. Yeah well a lot of it is going to business say. Let's look at the incentives that I've got here so title of seventeen billion for the stimulus package and he's going to get some money and what we'd go easily one off seven hundred and fifty dollar pyman. I'm did people online comes. As I people. On new start the icicle seniors health cowed families receiving family tax benefits. Cy People getting some sort of government assistance. Already we get one hundred fifty dollars right. They couldn't make it the nine hundred like like ruddy. Either they had to. We would be too similar. The people would make comparison. Well they'll say well we did. Listen ride something. Some sort of the number couldn't be too similar manner actually apparently on the screen down as Frank The Yorker. I'm sorry it slipped from last week or respond to lots of name so the rest of it is really going to businesses. So in part of it is is allowing businesses to speed up the depreciation if they're gonNA buy some stuff but honestly any business right now is just said. We're not buying anything unless we really really really have to. And then we're still looking at a bar if somebody walked in all but the government's going to give us a quick write down on texts. We're GONNA go. He's worried about Tex the moment but that's that's not going to incentivize anybody to buy anything everybody will be putting off on essential purchases including businesses side. Yeah so that's meaningless isn't it? Yeah what about pink pets? That was sort of guide to business. Wasn't it well? Yeah but bicycling it required building infrastructure which required construction insulating people's roofs. Yeah well insulating required employing people to do it. And they'll say school holes and things with models had a bit of economic stimulus but it was his some money and business has to build something and use it whereas the other part of this package is. Here's some money for business. We don't really know that you're going to pass that on in the sense of you'll keep employer of it. It's not I mean so. He's actually just going to give the money to businesses. But you said it was for tax write offs and things well part of it is for writing your depreciation if you buy something and so if people don't buy something I won't get it neither other parts to it were you might get something. So for example some people might be structured and where they are a little mom and Dad Business and company and the company tried and they Pi- themselves allied yet of it. Will you know they might be ending one hundred branch something of that but just a mom and Dad Business? They'll get some money editors so they'll get a minimum of two thousand dollars and possibly more depending on how much the peso say somebody who isn't on our government allowance of some sort gets nothing but if you start your phase fortunately that your mom and Dad Business in your trading under a company in Pineville Y company. You'll get something. So I I consider be a bit sympathetic to the The goal of saving business and small business in particular because I big employers employer of except with the Rudd Stimulus gave the money to the people and said count spending like an did work like I was involved in Tried Fair shortly. Afterwards and people rolled in with cash. These lives I mean and just spent a big like people went thousand. That's great on getting spended resulted in retail a worker shaping their job so as much as possible that the money went to the people rather than to the business which is supposed to get to the table because it gets when they sell stop. Yeah but how much of this? It's a little bit different isn't it? Because then if you wanted to buy something you could buy. Yes the presently. There's a lot of stuff comes from overseas and you won't have the opportunity to buy that if overseas shutting down as well so it's a little bit different from that point of view so in since this government has to go both sides of the later on this in terms of making sure people might a by simple things in stride. That which is what they're doing with this seven hundred fifty dollars but also you need to keep that infrastructure going in terms of people infrastructure in terms of having businesses and and people being employed. So yeah I think it's a little bit different. This one's different because people are really looking ahead of the next few months in gallon. I'm not doing any even if I've nine hundred dollars in this environment. I reckon people when they get fifty a good chains along with the the global financial crisis. Reckon is a good chance on this one where people say on what? Nader on the difference with this. We can do mathematical modeling and then infectious disease. If all just doing that and say well this is how long it's GonNa last. They can be pretty damn accurate on what's going to happen so you roydon sense that people can go. Well this guy go well. Last time that you know wins the battle of the market. Is it going to just bounce back straightaway? What's going to happen? But I think people looked at the global financial crisis to some extent. That's a problem for bankers. They could sense that the world was gonNA keep turning whereas now they look into this crosses and gang because this is really serious. Dr. Yeah. This is about stopping. Where's the global financial crisis was just everyone was like well businesses down a bit but it'll come back and they carried. Raleigh. Potentially looking at a Lotta people down. Yeah Yeah on. This is going to end up is kind of a guesstimate for the for the worst part of it. Three months six months a year. What do you think I? I've seen on thinking two years in a sense people banding around six months nine months or something like that. But when you look at the Spanish flu around the world twice and it was like to epidemics in a sense It could be that long so an each time it passes by is GonNa be people dying and there'd be people doing that hold on shoulder be peaks with more people die like winter common that but The world was a lot less well equipped to deal with a hundred years ago so we'll let help us too short in some ways. We're back a little bit to what it was like in nineteen eighteen in that. We don't have a vaccine. We don't have any medicines that will cure the corona virus as of now so a lot of it comes back to things that they were doing in some in some sense in terms of our solution in that. I don't think that would doing it as well. And the other thing that we doing well and particularly the strike I think we have quite a bit of experience with this is is tracing people who have been exposed and doing a ring type victory on them to contain the vars and I think we do that really well. We've had plenty of practice with diseases like measles than that which is actually more infectious. I think than rhinovirus and we contain it mine. It's a little bit easier because we actually have a vaccine. We can ring vaccinate members around that particular case so I think we do that. Wellness Drier and this might save Scotty. Because he's got people out there in the public health system who know their job and can do the job really well if he lets them do their thing. So I think it's a little bit different and And also we have more knowledge about the viruses. We have bay the skills it Scientific Studies. Surely we be a little more optimistic than we modify one hundred years ago. Yeah I think so but we also we. We're doing in a sense. We're doing clinical trials on in the actual circumstances at the moment and we can see that from country to country like China compared to what the USA is heading towards and easily compared to south greer. And we're doing all these little mini studies. I'm sure the epidemic throughout their their in Christmas on it's all coming in the mid one going. This is terrible. This is a terrible Saudi going on this earth. Too much for. It was one of the styling researcher who was publicly saying that. If if the government gives his organization one million dollars which doesn't sound like a lot of money he would hire the people necessary to crunch dot which you said is already available which will help Understand the statistics of it'll and we need to do that stuff. We needed that subset. We're prepared for next time as well. It's you know we go thinking. Think ahead as well ZANU chat rooms a person who's contracted Khurana twice which might complicate things until the vaccines. So I hadn't effort. That's happened that you hear about the man named on that one. Yeah well Detroit. If I wanted to make a vaccine here and leafy western Brisbane I had you know I've got a it's not long into a few other flocks use that making exiting. What's the trick here that Some sometimes it's a little bit easy the the first vaccines with with smallpox in that unit story well the smallpox story is that they found that. I think it was something to do with Capela cowpox in in the maids were milking. The cows got cowpox and they found that they were resistant to it and to smallpox. Yeah so there's enough crossover. In terms of the energy of the cowpox bars the cause and the the the person zone adaptive immune system to recognize smallpox and attack the smallpox far would be killed off and I think was trying to think of doctor was wrong guy who grabbed this kid vaccinated there with the cowpox thing Ron and and printed in these that and did they just basically inject people with cowpox. Didn't try and alter it into something else so they did not. It's all ads so it can be as simple as that and that's your homebrew that right and the kids with this one. This is a this is a bit more difficult. Trevor here I K- vaccine is from Vac camp. Because of the camp pox vaccine side must be vac mains cow in a different language. Your saying Joe. Anyway so I WANNA vaccine can I? So there are several different types of vaccines and one and that one we just talked about is an at. Taniwha is a top of the organism. So that's a live vaccine and examples we've got at the moment of measles mumps rubella vaccines but they're attenuated to the point that means they've been growing over in the Bar Chen till they can't 'cause actual illness severity of illness but they do call some response in the bike say do infect the person but so mild that doesn't usually doesn't get any symptoms at all might good slightly some symptoms of one and it's been extremely successful for measles mumps rubella the other one would cost one we get every year is the Is the flu shot. The influenza shot so how that works is that is actually quite a few different. I understand but the classic way is the inoculate eggs and the virus grows in the eggs then a kill the bars by heat or chemicals. Who some sort of radiation or something like that so that it becomes known nine fictive and then. I inject that proudly they'd be purified and all that that in and that stimulate the body the calls an immune response to parts of the bars lift over them with that leftover damaged virus so damaged for a similar style recognized and immune system recognizes that and when the real thing comes along and in that tax it so and there's I'm just trying to think of the other ways of doing I the other one the other type which doesn't apply and this one is the toxoid vaccine vaccines which are tightness diptheria than my went so tasteless diptheria usually kills you buy the bacteria causing toxins. That didn't attack the nervous system. So what they do there is they take the toxoid. They did the same process of deactivating the talk so it so it's not dangerous and then the inject daddy and the body Raynor's recognizes that and so when the real toxin talks gives and disseminate in the body the body at text that so and they have very effective because went to left so the Syria run on the next night. I got a syringe and egg and a sample of corona virus. Could get the one problem. Is that the crown of ours is belong to that group. They're not the same ones like this wrong. Avars is another ones that caused the common cold viruses in that group and we have been struggling to try and get a vaccine for that for a long time. So it's clearly not as easy ever there are other ways doing vaccines come online and the classic one is the one that they are now. Great Scientists Peter. Doherty discovered the vaccine for survival cancer. So he's he worked on that one and that one's I get destroyed. A sub unit taught vaccine which means he has found a molecule of some sort on the virus the pep Lima bars and he is taken that that sub unit and use that as the as the substance to inject to make the calls the calls the because unique it's unique protein or him. Like oh you have gyco peptide or something like that. That would do that. So there's all these other tricks occurring and the very very clear so there's quite a few different ways of doing this way outside my expertise here on this. Hit Me to try. That's a good nine. Pick up on something to that. Just explained to deal isn't as the out there that we have to immune systems in its. We haven't a night in unity that deals with most things. It's a it's a system where we got white blood cells. We have various molecules chemicals in in systems in Bali. So if something comes in a body body got hey not supposed to be here and it will just tag it. It doesn't here is not specific. Weren't specifically attack. Something that's recognized before it'll just take anything that comes in Ron and we in that's very important in our got an inner spiritual system in the mucous membranes. Yup but the other system we have which is what we're talking about is the adaptive immune system. Which is the one that we as verbs have developed revolution? And that's very specific you from the bombs with your nights them to threw missiles that rory targeted on. So that's what we've been talking about with the vaccines. Were not very good weight. Watchers says the eggs must be fertilized eggs unlike normal eggs. We want to write. I'll get some fertilize and says it was lesson. Vac Must Be Latin for CAL and vaccine are you from. Alex is a vaccine young with the nine of the organism. I think that's where the nine vaccine comes from or something like that. I'm really scraping the barrel in studies for medical school. Yes Spanish word for carry something similar. Isn't it yeah because I does sampling my in my work of that? Thank you Jack. Right okay. Just stop market quickly. Last week I was. I was not very sympathetic. Told me the state and at that time I think I said look really. The market is back where it was two years ago. What do you are too bad because you might will buy a house that was and it would be. Potentially the sign value to use light on that happens. I mean I remember back in the nineties where we would house and I use lighter. We'll get the same price for a property was really unflushed night camp near here anyway. The market has dropped since last week substantially and when I looked at it this morning it was about five thousand I simply is two hundred and you could go back to the first of my two thousand and six and it was a father doesn't I. It seems to me. The market was back in two thousand. Six folding. These lighter here we are. That's bad well. It depends what you are if you cashed up. Then it's a buying opportunity if sleep it might be another for what they need much. Still be there. But Yeah Yeah. It's it's going to be devastating for a lot of people who are affected by the mark and I guess that's a lot of Superannuation people in various stages that path they through the law. I find myself a my super has been infected and I was just saying before that my mood varies depending on what the stock by so by booth is rigged exactly the stock market. I'm a little bit because it's up three percent today but it was way down so on the broad saw. There'll be nothing to buy anyway. She took his right. Do you think it'll affect the real estate market? I think what will happen is a lot of casual staff will have no income five to move back home with mom and dad. So it'll be a lot of vacant rental properties. People will have to struggle to find tenants and Royce's goal to find buyers prices rental properties yet because they'll struggle to find tenancy can pie or it'll just be people who have a lot of spare cashing humiliated who will buy up a lot of properties as a investment on the future. Yeah but also got to be a bit spotty too because if you're in a tourist area and you have rental in that thin you're in big strong because the market's going to really full out. They thought here are my now talking about real estate. Another a lot of people have been using AIRBNB as a survey of the rental market. And that's not gonNA work for a while so I think the property market will have to take a dawn. Don't take it financial advice from a podcast d listener. Just common. Common Sense is probably would have guy down. Surely if people don't have money to pay rent anyway What we got so last time when we had a crisis at that time we had China China was still buying up big from us so we were able to sell a lot of stuff to China and that helped the rest of the economy. That's not happening now whether the figures that you just mentioned in China in terms of the Koran evolve. It really doesn't matter how many people have a it's just that. China needs stuff said that they can make stuff for America and America's not going to be buying anything onto it soon but Americans are gonna be killing does have anyway at the filter. Indeed they won't be buying from US like they were at the last financial crisis and also central banks were able to drop the cash rights and things like that and we'll rock bottom on the government side. No Room to move. The tourism was doing back pain. It's trash now There's a lot of Hughes Charlie's leadership would be pretty concerned as well because they need to get people back to work producing stuff but then as you said if there's no market to sell it to They're gonNA have a lot of unemployed people as well which will undermine confidence in the Chinese and could but these days in China. The economy's moved a little bit from just purely producing for other people to having an internal correct cut several economic system which is hopefully is for them is a bit more robust now and therefore that will protect them a little bit. Yeah since they've done a great job at containing Karenna Air but part of that they trick has been. There had to convince Chinese to be consumers. The natural inclination was signed. And they're gonNA have a hard time convincing them to be continuous nail. The whoring. Yeah as you would in a situation so true. Yeah right so long. People are going to be telecommuting. A lot of arrangements for people to work from home. Yes dear listener. I've seen bicycling working from home mostly for the last twenty years. I can tell you it's fantastic. You'RE GONNA love it my son. My son's just started working from home as in response to this. Yeah it'll grind. Boris just doesn't work now from what he does. Yeah he He works as a financial chief of financial analysts in a major corporation which corporation role and I kind of Quite high up but he can do everything from actually sets a year or so ago. I could do all this from home but he preferred to go into the office but now he's doing it from home. Yes I think people are going to. I really like it when this dust eventually sales in a euro two or whatever it is we're going to say well as part of a contract. I want to work from home for Moniz. I know a lot of businesses at the university where I had people asking to work from the university said Nikon. Because we need you here you do your job of course near the signed that side. I can go and work from home now and say they're going to turn around and go. Well I did it during the day Ryan across. I should be able to do it now so we might see some them quite substantial. Social Change is not savannah. Expect the way I think. If there's a silver lining to this whole crosses it will be a child in the people perceive work and leisure in the time people will suddenly realize they normally spend an hour commuting in the morning air in the afternoon that they're not doing and the garden doing other things and they just kind of realize what people like me have been getting wine with a lot. How are we going to see the social? Divide the ones that can work at home. We once it can the ones that I'm going to save on all sorts of things like being the whip from place where rentals cheap all property. Prices are cheap. Have to pay any sort of Commuting costs and that so we're going to see this divide between the group who have to go out and do this sort of thing and some of those are going to be in the low socioeconomic group that have to actually be on so it cleaning up beans or whatever they do. You know it's holes and movies and I guess then you're going to be resolved from your aunt and I think we should rename this the SILV- allotting podcast. That is a silver lining. And if if there's a sort of a shutdown and we're all really forced to sty and not allowed to move there's GonNa be baby boom non months well remember. Lots of listeners will be too young to remember but we had electricity strikes back in the eighties. When Jockey Peterson was in charge and basically the sequence linesmen were looking for extra pie and he said we're not going to pay the extra said. I went on strike. Say Yeah we had rolling blackouts at the time and and there were many off with just. The lights went out in people. There was a live even though it was the case and I think when people are sort of how even the gang bad television yes exactly nothing that could be the cows that we heard I on the on the globe. Podcast so Weight watchers sighing. That there's been a run on desks and monitors officeworks overpass. Today is a lot of people have interns surprising to get there in reckon they would be on things like web cams is well stocked up on because yeah and yes when the NBN Wilson Hive this test but fortunately my in being connected females against it'd be interesting to see I'm not on the NBA. And yet you know the other thing can is I reckon. People did a lot of bullshit traveling without flawed under Sydney. From another thing for a meeting for die and fly back. That really could have been done by knowing confrontation and just wanted to that. They were just expectations. And just you know people expect you to front up to show your level of commitment to the job. Oh to the company and and they conferencing software like the listener. Something like zoom is really easy to use and I reckon down attract people guy. I'm not flying to Sydney for that one dating which stood by conference and say now. You're not flying. You GotTa do. It buys into. Yeah Yeah I I think well I think people appreciate the time I think people will stop flying bullshit. Meetings could just Dubai Conference. Maybe things like like. My mother has a doctor's appointment on Thursday and I said to them look. We're not come in. We do it by telephone and I said you that'd be kind. Yeah it's fairly routine is sort of thing but ordinarily that was a real pine the but for me because I had to get there find a I get my mom up there. She walks at one mile an hour. So that'd be too fast but it's actually like it just takes forever to do anything. Three Day is gone and in a little bit with the government being forced to introduce an item number for. Gp's brought to do this teleconferencing. Yes which previously was just for specialists in that too. So Ron Yeah. Oh that's this is one of the unexpected things so it's GonNa say well you can't do that anymore. Gpa's G. is the community. Say Well I really liked that to service. Yay So some of these things will will cling on afterward zoom. I think so. Wait wait wait wait. You don't get a nice steak in a bottle of wine with enjoy. Says we do lots of meetings in the state on video conferencing system but nobody tins on video. Because they too shy yeah. We're not called you dig. Tried yesterday to invite you on. Excuse me trevor. I can't talk to you on Zoom Conference back by the sporting twenty twenty twenty compensation I think. Yeah so that was a sporting committee meeting online sporting organization committee meeting and we would meet face to face and had pizza and drinks in that. What we did this so we can't do it. We did it last last night. Wasn't it and and it was a really great and everyone's saying well I don't really WanNa drive because sometimes you could drive a little long way to get into meetings. There has going. This is great so I think that's from now on there would be no face to face. It'll be all done on. Zoom Zoom Bill. Ninety-one says economic crisis resulted in lower birthrights or at least in the two thousand eight recession. It did but then bill ninety one. They were forced to stay at home during that time. So that would be the difference and I want more grandchildren so I get crack. They'll ninety-one look. I haven't mentioned the patrons along side and I'm still looking to mention that because my computer crashed before we started this little session. Actually I'm going to get up and start that some way so I can thank the patrons and a lead that run in the background and hopefully get back to the Patriots. Let me let's just see. I'm looking at the photograph of Scott. Morrison tried to take gladys urgently and Tan and she's politic fact instead of look look at him as if I you serious keeps making the same mistake over and over good Yep Yep Okay let me just see see which. Well actually I'm going to play a little bit pie. Apply that to beginning. Let's Pie some Jonathan. Par The mini. I heard that loads of stupid reactionary clueless fuck quits were stockpiling fucking ball grow. My first thought was stupid reactionary clueless quits and my second thought was must by Lou rawls. We saw a scene. The measure of people here aren't we? We're about to see the best. And the very worst of humanity under the microscope like we're the ones in the Petrie dish as the consequences of this pandemic begin to sink in. Everyone is going to be affected in some way. It's not the disease we should be scared of. But it's war exposes. How thin the veneer is how little control. We have how enact and frail our government saw how our entire so-called civilization is a facade. Well these kind of expose. It will be interesting to see how people react. Based on the fighting I have a toilet rolls in the supermarket oils. That's not a good side. You do see other signs of people who are giving away the halls or other simple acts of kindness but seemed to see my story from two hours ago. Iran the calls to to do the shopping and dump. There's lots of lots of shelves which are having gone before I went. My Wife said we actually running low and toilet by perceive. You can pick up a faggot so gone us and then suddenly see people with a roll of toilet paper just hitting out clearly. The show the has gone out of their money into the y'all and run at the other end I can see all it's completely empty except for one Paul about ten packets of toilet paper and there's a young guy up there really mid twenties and the gophers and they're having an argument and she saying we only one we only we one packet and he's saying we'll limiting to just one packet per person but way to people. We can get two packets but while they're arguing this Paul about ten the hat and they've passed by the option of having tooth we. We've we've been a guy but we keep starting to get to the danger. Rain was like surely at some point in my head and has has to stop all the restocked and thought I think we got to that stage after two weeks. Yeah it's taking walls I. It will be interesting to see how society reacts feeling confident. Twelve men deeply concerned raisins which I explained before the podcast but not toilet papers leasing by Roy. Are we as a community to come together? I think we'll get through it but I think a lot of people are going to feel quite significant financial impacts into the medium. Just any snack. Foods casual staff is a casual they got Adler gun to really cop and really at some point pretty quickly. The government's GonNa have to somehow provide some universal by seeking count. Layton won't be able to pay rent is a lot of casual workers is who don't have savings. We'll find themselves out on the street if the government doesn't step in and give them help they added it and the seven hundred fifty dollars is nothing to what's needed Yup. Yeah Yeah also. This thing which was a main that said panic buying makes no sense unless you are watching people paying buying and then maybe you need to assert Jonathan Padras and these these second response was to eyeball growled. Yeah Yeah so. You casuals universal basic income. I mentioned last week about shock doctrine in Niamey Klein and how under the sort of neo-liberal framework they used shocks as a means of getting a neoliberal policies. So if there was an earthquake or if there was a financial disaster austerity measures or other things would be implemented while the community had a chance to fight back. Because we're in shock. That's sort of faces of Niamey. Klein's book and there's lots of examples of an implied. I'm thinking what part of her thesis was. Was that these right wing. Think tanks have these policies ready to go and when the shark happens they hand on the government and say here? Use this you need to do this. Study measure you need to Introduced Charter schools in Louisiana. You need to sort of right wing neoliberal ideas of I've got an a wishlist. They have a policy ready to go at hand to government while assistance in shock and the Khurana virus I think is a chance for left-wing Shock Doctrine. Because the left should be signed. See where we're in right now. We need a universal basic income. He's the policy document implemented. Now modern ahead to pay for it. You need a wolf attacks. He is implement like this is the time while the system is. GonNa be facing a huge shock that if you're going to implement a universal basic income and maybe funded by tax time great idea. I don't think the left's being ready to do it though. I don't think that'd been sitting there with their policies and I think you know unfortunately I if there was a live of government implies emotive Atta chains but Mars government went into it So yeah shock doctrine to be for the left attack advantage of this is the opportunity with some radical left wing ideas for example you would think in America with all of their problems with their healthcare system that somewhere along the track this disaster that's living will convince even the most doubting American that I made universal healthcare would have to be a restructured healthcare system to because I haven't really managed very well it. Well the big thing about America is compared to other developed economies in terms of intensive care. Beds is which is what you're going to need. I have very few whatever Hit a population and done and so they again to see people dying in the corridors of hospitals or as possible and in the parks and so that might be the shop. That's going to happen Stable they might come to that but it's also the another aspect of it is people who are poor and don't have money simply won't front up to the hospitals to be tested because I'll be deathly afraid of the potential cost. They'll just say I can't afford to go to hospital. I'm not going and they'll probably just die in a park someway or in the low budget combination. Just to provide devil's advocate to my previous thought. There was this name my soul which said the silver lining to rhinovirus. Is that the. Us will fundamentally reassess. It's broken healthcare system much the same way that Sandy Hook in the US to really tackle gun control. And have a fiasco in Iraq and Afghanistan caused a rethink of the military industrial complex. Oh just when I was a surly it is He is very resistant to Structural Change His. Yeah I honestly think like because of being bagging on a bagging America for so long now in describing the statistics like the majority Americans do not have five hundred dollars to attain an image to do with emergency stuff. Like they don't have they don't have the money. They will not be able to buy food or medicine. I think they're going to be pouring over the border into Canada at some point. Three or four or five months. I think they will actually have to riot to get fed the gum white give them stuff but with the health system already up. To this point someone gets a major health. Problem will disaster for them and I don't have any cover the night lose everything. They go bankrupt. They lose their lose everything so these are people who are working you know doing a rifle themselves. They get sick with the hell subject with which our country will. Australia will cover. That in America died so already. We're always seeing disasters like that happen. And the costs of basic medical procedures like getting tested. Fakhro of ours are to US astronomical. I mean we would. We just assume we'll we'll go to a GP and might might cost us a few hundred dollars. You know in in lab phase in America. I sort of FE. I mean I saw a figure of someone suggested it could be two three thousand dollars to anyone who fronted up to be tested for corona virus. Potentially two to three thousand dollars could be incurred. Yeah talking in front of to get something. Don't have health insurance. It's just going to say you think that will change in the I'll just have to test is likely so things like hand sanitizer and other things Some CACTUS pinged buying up in China unseal and Make money from it. And just thinking of some home remedies that might be a viable tried and Silva might be an option. She'll be writing the silver silver and trying to explain to the deal. What what what I had and because of our conversation I hardly be long. I noticed old range where they had a large. You know like five hundred Mil bottle. And then they had all the five hundred mil bottles rally stock. Also people are already buying some. What's the Silva Story? What DO PEOPLE USE Silver? Do you want me to go back to what was talking with. Talking with Joe and Poor Man Yeah Waco to. I don't know how it came up. Four can remember. I think Joe mentioned it. But you said gay patient patient patient into your your surgery and I would look bluish. Y'All have a bluish tint our life story because it's a nice little story there. I had a medical student in general practice. She was a first year medical student because the new system and very enthused as great great medical student came to do everything and the patient came in. There hadn't seen for an awful long time years and straight away. I knew what was going that I said to the medical student will. Do you think so presenting complaint which was nothing to do with skin. That was on an ankle or something. I don't even remember what it was. And she went through the history examination. Everything like that the the diagnosis and all that sort of thing and not once did she pick up the fact that this Guy Blue Blue and and I said look at look at these ski within the United States and suddenly it's staying the dawn and then I just said to him. Hey long have you been taking the COLLOIDAL silver? How did you know as they can go? Those this is one of the things that we will picking up about is that there is a home remedy out there where people use silver in a very very fine colloidal state to try on of all sorts of things from cancer to two and it goes back to ancient times. Doesn't it wear the tensions? Were aware that Silva had some sort of antiseptic antibacterial properties and copper is well. Water was often stored in cop vessels for that the ancient Greeks knew about it. That's right and and the we have this expression with a silver spoon in their mouth literally goes back to the Times where I think in Italy families. That's right and they used to use silver tableware because they believed it would be safer for them. Yes let's silver does have some properties. It's like that's right and it's used in modern times it's it's well known that's toxic to bacteria and even into some cloth as well that's right and it's commonly. It's still doing 'cause I've been missing for a little while but it was very abe is used on. Burns to protect against infection on. So it's using that even my light elderly mother I. I know that some bandages were recommended. She I don't know whether she burned herself or she. She's felon scraped her skin badly on her leg. And you know it was something that needed to build. And she was recommended to use bandages. Which will silver impregnated pain again exactly for that? Same reason and there are medical devices which have cuttings on them that or the peaks zone. And I'm actually a recipient over toy titanium divorcee me that had a silver coating on it and it's a little bit more high tech had done it's got molecular changes to the surface that are also just boy. Physical makeup prevent infections will so silver still use commonly for that. But the difference is that this is like a an idea which has got some merit. That's taken too far by people who have very little. We can seem lots of silver guys play too much into. That's what happens when you got blue but I mean it can be toxic carpet if too much. So we're actually has quite a low toxicity. So these people who have this Blue Man Syndrome with Aragon area and I think They died. I'm particularly unwell. But it can lead to severe toxicity liver toxicity and all these other things. There's no good way reversible to affirms aware you stay blue you can't. It's very hard to get rid all over via system once it goes in. I don't hold me for an awful long time. You'RE GONNA REMAIN BLUE. Also whatever what what is it makes you go orange. Do you know from carrot cherry juice. Speculating THAT TRUMP. Is Mike up swimming a little makeup and he joins us but that's more yellow than orange. So that's my voice. Some advice we can give the poor people of America. He can get hold of any bacterial rising up your silver causing a little right. I WanNa thank patrons because they haven't been thank for a long time so listen if you need to this program. We have a spot on Patriot. We can donate a dollar show is all we ask at a bit more if you like. And that helps to cover some expenses and some people have been doing an awful long time on looking guy cry. He's been heightened since the twenty second of March two thousand seventeen. Oh my goodness you're coming up too in five days time it'll be anniversary we going so thank you for being with us so from the top. Thank you Sean Jenny. Craig John Lane. And why? Not a Jahmai? Allison Steve Tiny kaitlyn Jimmy spud Kind Bronwyn Robbie Rod Pele medic men Dome Liam Dive. Daniel Harry Pita kept in Doomsday. I checked him with Captain Doomsday. He's got the right nine for the times and he's got a room in my bunk and he's bunker for me and weight watcher. Andy Murray Melinda Adam professor. Doctor Dentist Will Glen Craig. Matthew Alexander pull Tom Tara Camille Kim. Donnie Darko Clinton Gavin Dire Straits. I five Tony Yet. Another pink of Fan Graham Mark Citizens Six David. And we've got some people who don't like Pyan who provide money via PIPO Dain Kane was the beneficiary Mr Anderson Corinne Madman David Beverly and Damian. From redline digital and wine and jared cy I tell you what we got seventy nine now and people doubling up. I'm going to start calling yet surnames. So if you don't what you said I'm semi note will change it on. Adriaan economical at some saying. I'm so thank you to ask patrons much appreciated right we have mentioned the UK the crackpot Skein but the UK came up with the deal with this now. Tell me immunizing herd immunity. Yes please explain backtrack a little bit in the last I also yes. They have backtracked but That On big from vox at says he on Friday. The government's chief science advisor. Sir Patrick Valance said on BBC radio four that one of the key things we need to do is build up some kind of herd immunity so more people are immune to this disease and may reduce the transmission and your looking people get infected. Yes I've fought possible. Yes how else do you get hurt? Sensible idea yes so I'm just reading from this other radical good sweet Lord. Let me summarize. Britain leaders want the whole nation at Corona virus. Because they don't understand by six silence logical history. I think that everyone getting seek magically confers resistance on a nation that's not here disease works herd immunity is what happens after lab scale vaccination as a viral infection. Subsides it's not just letting virus run rampant. This is sort of the idea not stop letting it run. Rampant would eventually resulting a degree of herd. Wouldn't it well? It would but a lot of people that died after a lot. That's that's the punchline. After a lot of people have died. And that's luth unacceptable to me. I would have thought yeah. Yeah yeah well. What he says here is in this article. Even species never never developed immunity to polio. Will smallpox virus really ever bicycling we developed vaccines. And then we got a herd immunity. But Yeah Is it impossible for us to develop herd immunity to AVARS IF IMMUNITY? I guess is a term which I can't quite technically Nile down but if talking about sort of having a natural resistance stain evolution does that forests in through the night Immune system and also some flukes of nighttime destroying the think of one like. What's the one for malaria sickle cell anemia. So so there are some genetic twists in isolated cases where we develop immunity. Nfl sit subset of humanity resistant to certain diseases. In fact I was involved in research on one of those things with raw with two Britons in altitude and they didn't have much resistance against Isis when they came down below L. chewed. So there's there's some things that happens so they very good high-altutude because they they resistant to low oxygen conditions but that makes them winning in low altitudes susceptible to where we've got some sort of a night immunity to break through a genetic evolutionary state. I think that's what they're talking about. It just doesn't make sense at all so we haven't I mean it's been well publicized. Those two towns cities in America pizza fit was one of them. Don't forget the other one where digest let that happen. They just let the disease run. Its Course for forget what the disease was. And the other city to measures to flatten out. That yes and so. That's that's it. That's a brilliant experiment. I mean it's done in real time when people died but Pittsburgh or whichever. What was the one that took the majors to control the curb? So you didn't get release. Spot had much fewer deaths compared to the city. Go the whole flattening. The caves thing that we're talking flattening the curved thing it's saves lives and the UK say that the people in power to say that's just madness. It doesn't what madness but I. I decided feeling heat from people who know better. I'm sure they must bankers panic. Failures thing you can't do that now and they'll be an that'd be changing tack. Surely the other thing that you could do if you're looking for some sort of immunity or you can't afford medicine would be to join Margaret Court's Church The victory live church because she believes that the congregants will not contract Karan of ours because they are protected by the blood of Jesus. The blood of Jesus. You sound like you're and not only her church a whole bunch of Looney Christian churches and probably not only Christian organizations peddling similar nonsense is the Greek Orthodox Chech- Yes in the across. The country will allow congregations of hundreds of people to sip wind from the same spoon because quite the Holy Cup cannot carry the disease literally walks from person to person with a container of of some sort and a spoon. And as you say they they distribute it from the same spoon to each person one after another the the bad thing about that is. It's not just GonNa fix them. They're going to go off like catch the people so people who aren't of their face and I would expect out government to have regulations or laws in place where they could ban practices like that. Do you think they'll actually do it? Well the the the banning groups of either five hundred probably be banning group survivor fifty regardless of the size of the telling us not to shake hands for good men in actual practice. Good Point Yeah. This is a religious practice. This guy lied to harm. Good Point government stepping inside this fall and will I be protected by these new religious discrimination. Laws indeed is a really good question. This is a case of. I think it's either over royd religious freedom on that because it's a dangerous practice. Yes but then they're not. I haven't thought this through. But that's what feel things to me. Yeah because it's not just harming themselves harming the rest of us that's the thing that's that's that's the Knicks. Tapan is the problem for me if they decide and it's a free country if they decide to do dangerous practices whether it's jumping doing rock climbing jumping out of a plane or something dangerous. That's their business but that freedom to believe why the crazy nonsense is one thing but freedom to actually engage in actions or practices that harm others. Quite another thing is is. Hey just a couple of of corona virus sort of topics if we can if you want to add any other rhinovirus ideas before we move on Donelly I. We've got that off. Air Chest. Bill just briefly we mentioned conscription. And how frank of Floyd conscription cozy tell authorities? That he was. Yeah I mean eligible and I saw something in the US. They still have a system where you have to tell the government when you've turned doing and really yes. It's called selective service system is it's it's an independent agency. The United States government that maintains information on those potentially subject to military conscription the draft all mile US citizens and mile immigrant non citizens between the ages of eighteen and twenty six required by law to have registered within thirty days of the eighteenth birthday and must notify. The selective service with intent is of China's to any information such as change of address and It's a contingency mechanism for the possibility of conscription in the US. I add. I think that's the case in Australia. Australia what you have to register for Elections for voting compulsory. So we've got a system already set up that has tabs on people. The the fault of it is that there are people who have never registered to vote. And who never voted true. Have one in my family who's in need sixty s and has never voted wouldn't now you're I if you're on the role because yeah you could be eighty five year old man so they wouldn't missile really nice. That's a lot of names near you. Wouldn't know whether they're male or female. Yeah could be the why. It's copy sixes guest doesn't matter anymore sexist the. Us One is just mile and in Australia. When they used it it was absolutely only from out where females in the military that they were regular army all the conscripts were mile. So yeah if you apply for student loan or various other government things. They'll check that your name on the register did you. What was your young. This is just one or two years out. My three was entering. I remember being seventeen when conscription. There's people that I knew quite well. Who suddenly in the community over there off the Internet News? Yeah that's right and the other one I just wanted to mention briefly was the rugby league players flying for Canterbury. He had sex with some struggles. School bills who were. Ivor Sixteen side and the head sex in the hotel room while I were a wiig a gyn. Sai One of the team rules was thank bring Gilles back to the hotel room and have sex and literally girls day inside. These guys are up for long sanctions from the clubmate. Did you have any firm views on that? One in my view is if it was consensual. Sex and the girls were of the age of consent. It's nobody's business but there's right. I have a little bit of a problem with this because I don I held pools will but if they so young took their young ones youngest one so they were in the twenty s Early twenty years. So we'll get his two things. There's quite an age difference I think that can make a difference in terms of power. And that's the second thing is the very thing that they're powerful entity as pupo that they've got Certain privileges in society that make them have to respect the position in that society in terms of others. Who Haven't got that position of power and probably people should only mate on the basis of absolutely equal clap social class and power relationship. I think this is a big difference in well. We come across it all the time in terms of employers and employees where we have codes of conduct. I'm not saying make it illegal necessarily but I'm saying they should be codes of conduct where it's recognized that there are these power differences and free society allegedly. Are we not free to have sex with people of our own choice? But you got the difference between illegal. Yeah which we've just already all grade. That wasn't illegal as compared to codes of conduct. But have we been heavy on? What basis is this so-called code of conduct? What is the is that a moral thing and if so on what I would say an ethical thing. Yes but where does that come from? What's what's the foundation of the judgment that it's appropriate or not appropriate. The foundation that is to have a stable society and have some codes that allow us to function in a free society without Jerus- on others who decides who decides the backstory seems. These girls were the ones who were might influence and guide or at least there was very very very heavily in the courtship process. It seems yes so it gets back to the scandal around potato outweighs. She was saying teenage girls can be very sexually proactive. And and the wells' in the community were saying. Oh no you can't call schoolgirls sexually active that. Is You just can't say that the reality is as we know is that can be very sexually. I came in and you know to me. This very active. This is just looks like fell again. He's wine because them. Basically my argument with with Vallejo was Israel. You've got some choices. He love playing footy and he can play pack football for fifty dollars a guy and you can sign it if you like experience but he kind of have sex. But we've got this really really good contract for you where you'RE GONNA make. Mutter comes with a few conditions these crazy people. They've got certain standards where I don't want your sign nasty things about gay people and we're GONNA lose sponsorship so we've got all this sponsorship money that we could give you if you may ask shot a guy people if that's good and you like the sound of that. Then here's the deal. If you don't like that then you can play park rugby but you see the money is rely on keeping him out. Shop in with these football is at Canterbury team. Rule is dying. Bring Gilles back to the hotel room after a white Gyn. That's one of their rules. Because you know what people find out the sponsors get shirty we lose money so we've got a great offer for you. You can play Rugby League if you if you want really good money and travel the world and have a great time line just a couple of conditions of is. He can't have sex with girls hotel room after the match going to somewhere else. We'll do it somebody else but you just can't do it. Somebody might if you don't like that deal then. We won't be able to get the money to pay you this. If you don't like that deal you'll have to pay pack football Congress to I and I think if we're gonNA live in a free liberal society people should be free tonight. Did their own choices choice. That was all about Choi now. You're not giving them wasn't choice now as you yourself said. Trump of the girls were voluntary participants. In this okay. They were in no way coerced into this sort of activity. I think it's the return of the House of the early twentieth. Century was trying to tell us who and when and how we should be having sex with others now these girls clearly were there because they wanted to be there but what about the code of conduct. Yeah I think it's it's an artificial kind of contact put the to thoughts faltering respect. I prove to you that they needed that kind of conduct because sponsors had said to them we need a wholesome image follow towns ship but their idea of Dade and I said these there are some legal activities which are frowned upon so way prepared to pay lots of money. If you'll pliers avoid some of these legal activities I think they are entitled Deci set so they made what they earth is wrong with. Having sex effect gave the club a choice. I said to the club. We've got sponsorship money under this condition. You have the choice to accept it on. Nanga look at you. Faithful to the Albert attacked the benefits the responsibility. It makes six dirty again. And I thought we'd gotten away from that. We had the sexual revolution in the nineteen sixties and Seventies. For goodness sake way people finally said Hey. Sex is okay. It's not dirty as you know. The people of our parents generations were taught. And then we're going back again. We're going back to where sex okay. But but not while. You're playing rugby league or not after match. It's it's making sex dirty again and I object. And after all where. They can't take them back to the hotel and they became the girls day became the boys that they'd Cain what should they do? Have sex in the back of a car and have sex park. I mean for goodness sake that is just treating them with the lack of dignity treating the women with a lack of dignity. At least they're in a hotel room for goodness sake crying. Have you been swayed by any of these argument? I think they're both very good arguments. But I just come back to that same. You prepare your own. Look I I really. I think all these metoo movement not saying that people main in position of power like Weinstein or wherever grapes. He was a creep. Obviously but it seems to me that there's a bit of a bit of blowback you know. And the general community has become a little nervous about sexual relations between Black Guy. And I don't think it's healthy wrong. Because a lot of people made their marriage or the life partner at work. That's a fact of life and now we're being told. Don't you dare ask that women in the office? That man in the Office for a date. That's it's it's really really getting like that where people are nervous about asking somebody out for coffey because it it's considered a nano now in the workplace. You mustn't be sexual. You mustn't be a sexualize creature in the workplace anymore. You know it's it's becoming unhealthy. It's natural we are sexual creatures to see a way through it. I think we need to chill a bit in. Just really chill sexualize Character Val side of the football club should side of sponsors. We'd love you sponsor team but applies in guide. You normal healthy sexual practice We're not going to skull them provided it's all consensual and you're just going to really the club should be saying we don't want you money if you're GONNA be so. I think so. I mean what's driving these young men. It's testosterone yeah. It's the same thing that makes them damn good. Rugby players on the field is what makes them. WanNa go and have a bit after the match you know. And it's you know sexual creatures especially young teenagers early twenties for goodness sake there at the peak of sexual of sexual The fans of the cloud should side of the sponsors. What the hell. He's just normal activity. It is normal activity object. You being a sponsor if you're GONNA be such a prude this we don't want any crew sponsors. We expected to the Palau situation. My position was that society needs to say no religious freedom of religious freedom if he says things and we just we comment on that exactly and move on. Because it's got nothing to do with food is out of date. They don't hold up onto any kind of scientific scrutiny. And let's just ignore it and that's what makes it a bit different in this case. Is that that power difference. I believe I'm a little bit skeptical about this cycle. Power difference because that applies to everything I mean literally every workplace you can say somebody has more power than another therefore. Don't you dare ask them out for coffee. We have to at some point and say if you expect of human social activity colleague the university level five you can go out with a five hundred dollars that the troops a Rhode Island okay. Well that was good. Just one of those trying to end right d listener. Well Interesting Times ahead interesting times. Can I just bring up one of the Political Political Stephen I'm involved in With Dignity Queensland who support volunteers suggested Fomc assisted dying and we were having a rally outside Parliament House in Queens and this is the Queen Sanders in Brisbane because the parliamentary inquiry invoices to dying is being released. Espy released sometime. The report has to be released some time by the thirty first of March so we wanted to bring it to the politicians attention. This is a thing that the grassroots people of the of Queensland won't unfortunately because the Crinan bars you couldn't get their attention with the Bazooka gown that's right so we're going to try and have a virtual really in the sense that feels will longing. Kayce people thank the message that's been it's been cancelled so we cannot meet its at its at speakers corner which is the Q. U. T. End Up George Strait and people that much about but there's a great big X. on the footpath there that is actually speakers corner for historic reasons and the parliament. House Roy outside Parliament House but at the institute here on the part. That's next to the botanical gardens. Iran if this big eggs and you haven't even those I met with a hanging out handing out Christian paraphra. Now that's the one. That's the exact often union rally. So that's big it's cooling. That's what's for is for people to have they they little and things. We had police permits and stuff. But that's not going ahead so what we're going to do is a few people we they're just pick up stragglers. Who hadn't heard they're being canceled. And we have a couple of speakers just speaking into a microphone. But trying to keep social distancing happening in terms of over. That's right so and then hopefully we'll have people logging something between one and two on Thursday the nineteenth. Which is this Thursday coming and just say I Great we support bonuses dying and we would have been there or we wouldn't have been there but we still support it. Logging win at on our facebook page which is dominating the Queensland Guy Having Lodge strain or something it'd be a live stream yes roll it very good So yeah that's just a little plug there from very good. Why corner of the World You think that Anastasia panel. Shying doesn't really have an honorable with assistant. I think is dragging her fate. And we. Now it's a L. A. I L. P. Policy Stipe. Come excuse me policy at the prison time and we know that there are quite a few. Iop PEOPLE WHO've come out petitions come out in piece of coming out and supported. We know there's an awful lot who done what publicly come out yet but do support it but there's also a few who don't want to. I think politicians escape the scared about people like the ICL gave about the Catholic Church from. I'M GONNA throw it and they don't have a grasp on the numbers a little bit. They just don't quite believe that. This eighty five percent of the population support quite believes that seventy seven percent of Catholics support. It and many religious people including religious organizations actually have come out in favour. She's to dying so the support is overwhelming on the grassroots level but the politicians just can't quite believe it and I think that's because the lobbying that's going on so we need people to just keep nibbling away at their politicians and getting the message out there because I think with what I'm worried about this person. This is not from dying with dignity. Queensland my personal thought is this corona virus is GonNa take politicians time and they going to not address. Things such a difficult. Sandra imagine even things like the religious discrimination bill and you can just imagine all these things sky onto the back burner all with with release suit combination. It'd be wall biggest crisis going on. They'll just slip it in the church. The big worry. That's true potential as well. I'll be doing nothing bad. Nothing gutless write-offs. Well that's an episode. Very good thank you. Twelve thirteen cried. You're most welcome told me. Thank you was closer. We'll be back next week. Barter now void the problem of transforming the ghetto that or is a problem Apollo confrontation between the forces of power demanding chains and the forces of power dedicated to the preserving the status foam now power properly understood. Our is nothing but the ability to achieve purpose. It is a strength. Rick wide the bring about social political and economic chain while Reuther defined power. One day he said power is the ability of a labor union like UAW. The makes the most powerful cooperation in the world. General Motors. Say Yes when it wants to say no that's power.

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Episode 237  We Were Here First is not a great argument.

The Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove

1:16:43 hr | 8 months ago

Episode 237 We Were Here First is not a great argument.

"Suburban Eastern Australia an environment that has over time evolved some extraordinarily unique meek groups of Hamas sappy but today we observe small trial akin to a group of mic that gathered together talk a small mound to watch question and discuss the current events of their city their country and their weld at Blanche wjr. Let's listen keenly observed this group fondly known as the Iron Fist and the velvet glove. Yes we'll come back daily snow. This is episode two hundred and thirty seven of the on fist in the velvet glove. podcast little group of MEA. Cats Hill is to me. Ah yes NIA cats off in central Queensland to and and he's on a top observing eating a big fat beefsteak doc I think he is. I think he's so it's just to be with you on this occasion dear listener. This is an Australian podcast where we talk about news and politics in religion normally. The sort of the county is the week. That's gone by and I of course in Trevor. The aren't feast with me as always pull the twelve main good I trevor trevor. Get a listener. Hope you're all well out there. Happy Australia days a little bit politely. Thoughts and prayers for Scott Scott often not told me in the velvet glove. He's he's not with us but he'll be with us again at some stage. Sure is with us in spirit on his right. So we're a podcast. We talk a bit news and politics in religion. If you join the podcast with this time we had a really cracker of an episode last week. Some unusual took that the Bible from the point of view of an atheist perspective and the historical Jesus and the Gospels and how much we can rely on them win with I might. He made them lots of good feedback on rivers. Maybe if you've never heard this before what I'm thinking because I got interviewed on the program which I think coming out soon and I always get the feeling that They might come for this episode and I would encourage you have look at previous episode as well and get a feel that one anyway we're gonNA interviewed viewed the podcast hosting company I media view in different tables on right so uh-huh topics twelve main thoughts on. Its perennial question the divers you. The we've dealt with it in the time every year we've sort of given I think BICYC- conclusion is we don't really care about not know if it's offensive to digital brothers and sisters. I don't mind changing the date to something else on. I'm not really locked onto January twenty ninety six either. I am just a little bit uncomfortable with the idea of changing a date because a minority of people found it offensive. You know what I mean. Because not all indigenous people find it offensive. I I get the feeling that it's mainly the the very loudest noisiest indigenous activists that it or against it because other indigenous people like just enterprise and I've seen that claim that the average indigenous person listen is not really that passionate about changing the date but the indigenous activists who want to change a very loud out very noisy and very persistent and they have managed to persuade a lot of non indigenous activists that basically it's offensive to all indigenous took people and that they won't rest until it's changed so I just I don't know I don't like the idea of changing things just because of a few noisy activists if you know what I it may well is it just a few. I don't know we never Ni- we'd have. We'll never night and I'm happy to change the diapers and I I think y you're really cares that much upset in the past let's move into later in. Liam you need more holidays yes well. Let's not a bad idea but the Indigenous Affairs Minister Ken. Wyatt said that he's not in favor of changing the Dighton that he thinks people should just come together and put the past behind us and get on with making the president in the future future. Better for everybody you know. And I'm kind of on board with him and not a huge admirer of Ken. Wyatt on this point I think he's. He's being eminently sensible support you know. He's a quote from me. He says we can have anger at the past the pain and the hurt but at some point you've got to give our children a better future in in other words focus on more relevant issues real sort of concrete issues rather than symbolic ones said. It was the bean marches marches in every time. Just back a little bit from you. Please pull a bit further pedic perfect. Thank you okay. I was reading something. Well Y- invasion dying and just some thoughts out there when you're thinking about invasion dying Ryan Cooling a dad and he because we didn't indigenous episode two hundred thirty eight say skewed I refu- issues in this next little segment. God Gadget Episode Two Hundred Hundred Fifteen and get the full down. Light of malware designed various issues. But first thing I'd say is for the people who call it invasion dying is do you call by people invaders and if not why not. And what's what's the difference Because the people who came unwillingly on the votes on the first fleet yes in fact I probably how powerful more came unwillingly. Half were convicted and the other half were sailors marines. Yes and you can pretty pretty much be sure the majority of the convicts came unwillingly. And it's probably also true that some of the sailors and Marines went. That came to come. Either yeah I I. That's an issue if you are willing to call it invasion dying but you're not willing to call people invited providers then I have to ask why it just a matter of consistency Zeh that sort of issue number one and I was reading a book about a Uh why you should be a socialist. Hang on let me just grab it. I meant to have it with me and Spy Nathan Robinson and he he had an interesting section of property rights. And let me give you sort of a birdcage analogy nineteenth century economist. Henry George pointed out that property rights were especially questionable when it came to lane. If I'm like a bird house with my bare hands and we might think it logical that I should be the one who gets to decide what to do with that details but maybe created the lane so the and anyway lane is originally turned into property is through. Seizure and seizure does not establish a particularly compelling client so that was not in century economist. Henry George and sort of a bit before that was a guy nineteenth century philosopher. Joseph Proud on leading when I did Political Science University Anneke coast. Well he's just interesting answers. Thoughts about property is theft the slogan very good twelve million. Yeah property but he is theft is what he was saying. Is that at one point in human history. Nobody owned anything like when we at one point. We're all hunter got. Yes Oh and even before that just at some point we become mean coin and then at some point ownership started and I knew ship started when somebody claimed something for themselves and said nobody else is entitled to it and he argues that the sort of ethical justification for that isn't isn't enormously clear And so really as sort of looked at what he had to say eh Tom. He says that the client has nine natural legitimacy. It's unclear. Why looking at an online world? I should be able to take part of it for myself and demanded on that other people recognize my right so really when it comes to sort of land I initiate. It seems to me that people get in in sort of three essential lies one is. I was here first argument arriving on virgin soil. And on here I it's more and you can't ever Or woah conquest by the Strong Ivy League. Type it from somebody else who was already correct or see would be buying or inheriting inheriting it from somebody. In the first situations is held property. Ownership comes a day out and so just thinking about the indigenous providence sisters climbed to ownership of Australia at a philosophical level. You could say really is authorised. What was he I that much better than on taking it off you now see an intergenerational sort of thing here because I'm often whingeing engine about the plumas taking everything and future generations being stuck with you imagine a world where essentially essentially all of the viscount lane is is taken owned because people disc line it and and then new human beings are born into the saw Sashi and they told those not bad luck you one of the lighter ones were inherited by yes and if you're an often too bad on the the inheritance one it's a finite resource that in one sense arguably belongs to humanity as part of the common and and you know there's obviously an argument where refusing proved a property or build a house on? It'll you've used to make a firearm would do do something on it then had some legitimacy to your use of the lane perhaps wall. You're doing that but the sort of a freehold title is why. Why don't you buy a block of land once you keep the rights and it's yours forever more? Yeah Yeah. That's that's the idea. Although in camera for example would you buy property take some sort of nine hundred ninety nine year lease I think it really. Yeah it's it's not a full of resumes too. I think it's on the understanding that you will I Probably have it renewed free titles is in perpetuity. It's a sort of a it's really current. Generations signed a future generations interactions. We'll just bad luck. We look I have to admit when I was when I was studying political science at university I was a little bit younger than I am now. And you know and I can understand that for people who don't earn much property. That's sort of idea that are g you know it's not. The world is not fair and that the people who earn most of the property may may well have got it through illegitimate means and so why shouldn't the government it just take it off them and redistribute it you know. That's the sort of typical lot if the revolutionaries I'm no longer convinced I mean it it it. It sounds very nice to those who feel badly done by. I'm no longer convinced that it's a good way to run a society because ownership of one's is on home provides a certain amount of security and that security gives you a certain freedom from anxiety and stress about. So you know what's going to happen to me tomorrow and the day after that to me. So I'm I'm now more inclined to think that at least at the the individual level people are better off owning their own home owning a little bit of property at least maybe not owning masses of it and into becoming rent-seekers but certainly I'm not against the idea of ownership of property of real estate. I've changed my view on that quad locks in a young. You know slightly more easily influenced wrought person. I'm not saying that we it shouldn't allow people use of land and what we've got going now but at a philosophical level the climbs that you you know I have their full entitled to get them is a good deal skepticism. Deserved Iron Ship Kidding no no Pearson has. He's a very strong advocate. For Indigenous Peoples Replanning Indigenous Welfare has come out strongly saying that Free whole title should be a possibility for indigenous. Ns people on indigenous community on land And he saw that as a means of indigenous people have actually improving the welfare. Yes well this problem in indigenous communities is that this zero incentive didn't actually look up your body because I don't exactly and we all we've seen the pictures of cap borrow against not businesses. Can I just say one more thing about circled invasion day I. It's very easy to to judge what happened to two hundred or more years ago by by contemporary standards. But it wasn't the same world people didn't see things the way we see things and it wasn't just the British sh inviting Australia was happening all over the world. You know this is the story of humanity. Humanity has win into the specific groups of people have have grown in numbers and groaning power have spread out and taken land from other people. You know or or taken land that they saw as free to free for the taking or uninhabited Tehran. Elliot's if you WANNA put it that way. This is a human story now. We cannot turn the clock back. We can't change history and we can't go back and return. Every piece of real estate to the whatever indigenous people were inhabiting it in one hundreds of years ago. It's unrealistic and. I'm not sure it's even desirable shortly where we can all move on on together. Make the best of whatever situation we're in as a country and the strider is one of the more in one of the more fortunate Senate countries take a whole and I think we're we're capable of working out a sort of just cooperative of managing our resources and our land without becoming divisive in engaging in US versus them contests you you know what I mean. Yeah I mean the truth is really what help people being treated to die. Have brothers and sisters equal rights to participate I saw today. Is the question equal opportunity. Thanks so we've done that today. We previous ones. We might go again but that was just some thoughts on property that thought. I'd try to the Knicks and not only that but these activists who come up they slogans strawberries raise indigenous land was is and always will be it just totally out of touch with reality. I think inc.. It's obvious that trial in European originated Australia and not going to pack up and go back to. You're just getting back to the birdcage analogy. Oh Gee where if. He's sort of create the birdcage. You've seemed to have iron ship all that and can do with it as you wish. That's one of the things with land. Where basically they used to grant land to people provided you had built structures dotted Afam? Denison a man of improvement. Yes indeed and that sort of thing that you you had to do given the land is a result of its I and even in the industrial revolution dicing in the UK. Okay a lot of the land. While prior to the agricultural revolution should say a lot of the land was occupied by peasants. Who basically you know scratched out a living growing? They're growing their crops. And providing service and tax to the local law and then the local lords when they discovered that by fencing their fields by selectively breeding stock that they could improve the quality of their produce and basically chased the peasants off their land and said a mind clear out on and that was part of the Commons. Yeah exactly so. They basically stole the land off the peasantry who had always lived on it and the peasantry era in England. Where basically you had the common lane where everybody could go in? And in Hunt Fish and gather gather whatever was available in in the woods or whatever or as the industrial revolution came at the Commons was appropriated by fencing at all and people in forced into manual labor in the industrialized leaving different form of servitude. So the idea of property ownership of it is something to take into a camp considering being. Yeah right just. On more general topics without fiasco with Senator McKinsey and the rolling the grants to sporting groups played. It wasn't a pretty blatant rotting thawed. Well we've got an order to general economy out bulletins and then those like but somehow we now have to send it to the Prime Minister's department and investigate usually if the general comes out with that'd be enough you would think okay but obviously she's a nationals member and the prime minister technically can't Sakka to the leader taught nationals party. It's his cabinet cy. Apparently the part of the coalition agreement is that the the leader of the Liberal Party party cannot sack a regionals cabinet member. Apparently well. I didn't love the law right That's what I've read on okay Anyway what's IT Asai other than it's so blatant very slow going by people would have just said I my occult hip yet to come back another day refuses shiny. Thanks what can we do. It's not nothing I don't think of. Because we know Scott Morrison gave had had the government give one hundred and one hundred and ten thousand dollars to church for security cameras now. She the apparently joined the gun club and gave them thirty or thirty. Five thousand dollars or some such amount for what. I'm not sure it's the whole governments. Danes are just roll. Yeah so clearly. She wasn't acting allying clearly. Whatever decisions he was making was was down with a group of high level maple like Scott Morrison and just you know lies and she wasn't acting alive Shimon F- to Fulham the sword to keep everybody happy you might still? You'll see in the facebook. Just leave me a message if the audio is now working. 'cause I'm just curious to know whether that's working Couple of other minor things micro party merges. So the Voluntary Euthanasia Party in New South Wales merged with reason party to know that Dying with dignity Vice President Shine Higson who had run for the voluntary euthanasia party into state elections in two federal elections. Being a single issue party was intellectual ability and bicycling which is going to be easy to be part of reason saying that makes sense to me. Join the lighter party really I even twenty five dollars and I'm awaiting approval. Will you be nonpartisan broadcast exactly exactly so. I have to Mike that I'm GONNA have to put a little page on the website to claim on pod. Bosses declare your injury. Yeah so we'll see if they accept minks because you had to be on the form state whether you'd run for parliament for any other party you're so my intention deal is not is together some English into into to find out how guys I wish you. Good luck I hope you can bring about some change in Saadat that rather yeah. I'm just curious to see how it'll operates so we'll see how if I'm facebook's too difficult head over to Youtube Cheb Greg's done that side Roy Bush for donations. Yeah well lots of people have denied it a lot of money and this being compliance that these organizations like it's all action armies instant vincent to pull a hanging onto money distributing it to the needy people and have even said things like thanks for your Dinah will probably use about a third of for this emergency what will use a reminder for future emergencies. Come on people who donate a EH. I would assume wanted it to be given quickly to the people who needed it. As a result of this push farmers. Wouldn't you think you you would think that's what people would want. But why are we delegating. This function to religious organize ovation. Armies and Vincent Depaul Okay Red Cross religious one of I know they're not rely. The Red Cross originated in Switzerland. This is way too much of the welfare system. mm-hmm has been outsourced into religious groups that had government nightlong has the infrastructure to properly deal with these things. They should be enough. But would you be confident if say the government said we're setting up this body to receive donations. Would you trust the government. To-do who would you trust to do it. Well I probably trust the government more than the churches churches and at least advise Atta government. That do it. But a confidant vitamin chairs. So surely if there's just proper social welfare offices around and I mean they've got everybody's bank account details. They know everything could be hot them. They're the people decide in the maybe the should be the body delegated to distribute the money. It's just a sad state of affairs is way way bicycling relying on a lot of distributors. Not not to be trusted and there again. Is that automatic assumption that they are morally upright and trustworthy. And you can count on the name to do the right thing as we know it isn't always the So and a lot of sort of will phase at source. Just General Wolfe's outsource outsource to these groups. That really should be done in house by a government in opinion and firefighter compensation. So we've heard that like we're going to be paying the volunteers in I was reading an article from the festival. Guardian fastened is part of. It's it's kind of a map tambourine at Buna sort of area. I think there's a lot of restrictions on the pirates so volunteer. He's become eligible to climb for die on the fire line after fighting fires for tin dies so they cannot climb for the first ten days they can only climb for those areas fighting the falls within normal working ounce if a five to Ford for eighteen hours on one die and only four of the ID. Now's will within the volunteers normally normal licking dying like an claim for those four hours. Daddy's ridiculous isn't it. I mean it's the firefighters working for fighting fires for eighteen hours. He's he or she's hardly GONNA be in a fit state to report for work the next day if a made up the house alive from work by looking at nod on the weekend received payment from their employer like Klein inhalers and I must prove loss of income and I can only climb eric commiserate with a normal daily Wjr. retied can't climb and if a volunteer works part time and I fought a fall on dies that they do not normally work then. They can't kind if this is true as what the fasten Guardian was saying. I've never come across the food and Guardian before but that will basically weekly community stall newspaper telling the amended they listen. This is good luck. Five volunteer firefighters. Because doesn't sound Amok GonNa be Getting much benefit. Yeah so So that's right. A couple of things on intergenerational stuff because I've already mentioned one in terms of property and again I I am. Yeah Dan did somebody. Did somebody side. I've if let me just see where I've got here on. That is just in terms of voting looking at it the result of varying the last election with the for example the Tories one when did huge generational differences in voting. So if you're looking at get in the age group. Eighteen to twenty four women aged eighteen to twenty four sixty percent. I did for libel only fifteen. Fifteen percent voted for conservatives even in the age group twenty five to forty nine amongst women. For example Apple forty-five percent voted for Lila and thirty two percent for conserved. It's and it's only when you get to people either. Fifty that the conservatives getting front there's a real divide in the UK election between the old and the young. What what do you think that is? I mean there is some old some all cliche about your revolutionary. When you're young in person and as you get older you become more more sensible and you stop voting conservative? I personally. I think there's something something in it to be. Honest I I know I was much more inclined to to absorb ideas about social justice and revolution and you know sticking it to the rich past when I was younger but I think as as you learn more about the way the the real world works you realize that not that. It's all good and right but that there are certain sociological reasons why society seems to settle out the the white does and it's not entirely negative if if you take my People just get grumpier as they get older in Crotchety and and less less willing to change. I don't feel I don't feel grumpier old. I feel I have a more nuanced understanding of the way the world works if you like So good on the screen for the people who are watching live couple of graphs so the top line is the craft overall result but then the shows the group. It's really quite remarkable the differences between age groups and then in Australian case when you look at voting in the last election so somebody just I have a forty in the eighteen to twenty four. I gruppe over. Forty percent voted Lyda in the amount that voted for the L. E. P. would have been somewhere around the fifteen percent and in a huge green vote of nearly forty percent green. I'm going to young people. You and as I get older as green votes disappear in all end up at the ceiling piece. Yeah they got youthful. Idealism gives way to sort of for more realistic view of the world as people get older more realistic. I think it is it. Is it something else so I think it is. I think I think people just sort of realized that all that youthful idealism maybe based on terrific sounding ideas but they with a bit of life experience realize that some of those ideas are good but a lot of them are a little bit sort of pie in the sky and maybe not practical practical. Well if the young people are looking at and thinking the people could be looking at the climate change sort of argument. Well not gonNA worry. It's good for example not. I'm not saying it's not going to affect main all be gone. I'd so do you think that really don't care about the children grandchildren children. I reckon there was a significant number of old people is it. I'm not taking about in the environment because I'll be gone but by Hick I don't want people mucking around with my dividend imputation credits. It's a bit of a cynical and the young people were along to be stuck in this world from the next fifty years. I am worried about the environment. And I'm not getting dividend imputation. So it's but the other side of it. is things like a young hero. Greta coming out. I'm saying you all bastards. A wrecking the world. And we're GonNa Inherit this myth and the world burning and we've got to stop. We've got to stop adopt burning fossil fuels now not tomorrow. We've got to stop now. But of course in reality that would cause deliverable economic economic chaos. Absolute Kale's if it's just suddenly. We turned off the fossil fuels so there when she said and added Shimane tomorrow she she basically she well she says he did. I believed in her mind she wants. It stopped now but you know even by twenty twenty five which was a figure that was bandied about over the past few months if if we stopped burning or using any kind of fossil fuels by twenty twenty five the economic downturn would be colossal and not only people like us would suffer people in the developing world would suffer far greater scowl. I like writer because her job is to rattle the cage INCI where angry we want stop mucking around. And he did that job really well look. I'm not I'm not admit I'm not a fan. I think she's impertinent acting as if she has a greater sort of understanding of the world and the situation I think she's got blinkers Glinka zone and I think she's impertinent. I don't think she signed that. They all the Feick. I've got blinkers on obstinate. She she may well think okay. came up your ought to be. Yeah I just think so or I like it I think she and it's interesting. The people I find who react to sort of I think if she was older and signed the sign things they wouldn't be as offended but the fact that she's a young person telling him I think they don't like being told old boy what they perceived to be a teenager as to what to do and I think it's more a case of who you young person to be telling me any what to do and I think people are objecting to that rather than listening to the message and if she somebody who was saying exactly the sign message wouldn't have had the vitriolic CI received saved saying look. I think they have good reason. Not Not to be angry but to be kind of like she thinks she is this teenager Inter thinks she's I mean really seriously she's she's barely out of childhood matter. What matters because she likes real life experience and worldly table table with real life experience doing anything that's not trade so that's really not true? Travel they may not be doing as much as you. Greta wants them to do but it's they're not doing anything now. Let's let's be honest about these. People have been doing things. Toyota has been and other companies have been producing being hybrid cars for quite a few years now. More and more electric cars are coming onstream in Norway. They expect to be totally electric car. A by I forget the year but it's pretty like twenty thirty or something like that the UK is following suit. A bunch of European countries are following. They definitely definitely not doing nothing. And to claim that they're just sitting on the hands and doing nothing is just not not true because of the whining sample of electric exist electric cars. I mean there are alternative energy sources. They may not be as plentiful as some some people would like. But they're definitely growing. And last time I was in Japan I was quite surprised. At how many winter bonds they were in the countryside I thought science is pretty much in by Szekely. We went doing enough globally to stop a disaster that the scientists predicting she's signed signed with the scientists to sign and again this figure and I'm not saying that you know I'm not a charge. Denial which some people might level that charge by. Whatever I say I get the feeling that if you if you don't just you know repeat the climate alarmist rhetoric then you're immediately absolutely labeled as anti science in a climate change denier and all the rest of that for now you might not but my point is still that the science seems to be that we according to the scientists? Some willing thought is quite a few of the scientists. It's definitely far from ninety seven percent which is figure figure which is bandied around that we're falling behind what Thais we need to be at. Look I agree. We need to definitely eliminate call career so she sang when not matching the pace of change. That sintus has told us to do is essentially a message like true. No I think she's saying a lot more than that thanks. He's angry the essential knob of what she's saying is when not doing it as fast as what science tells us we need to. I think she's her message is that we need to change the way we run out civilization. Well if that's what isn't that part of the message of of of Sciences saying that we do need to change. Yes if allies Asian don't think scientists saying that I think scientists saying thing we need to adopt less polluting means of Generating Electric Power Roy nuclear power. which is the cleanest greatest? It isn't that changing civilization when the scientists are telling us. We have to have house sources like that. I don't think necessarily China. It changes the way we produce power way. We run out. Civilization doesn't have to change threatening about changing our civilization that he's related to changing now climate influence. What is she saying? That's beyond climate influenced. That's what she's either is changing. What she's saying is that regardless the consequences to civilization? We have to abandon the way we've been powering civilization and she's saying basically she's saying regardless of consequences. You've got to stop and you got to stop now. Well she's saying we should do what the scientists tell us to do that. That's from what I've hood is. She simply parroting the science if you find me something man by next week where great big has gone beyond what the scientists circa. It's a challenge for you know. I can't say for sure but yeah zebedee angry main in the chat rooms. His electric cars are irrelevant unless the electricity disease coming from something. Other than fossil fuels totally agree. Good Point and yeah okay I think call is is the the the the big factor we have to work on burning call kills people a lot more people than probably killed by things like traffic traffic accidents and things in some New Topic will move on. Okay tennis your tenants. Big Tennyson Fine Jewelry Tennessee as well and I was watching the AD. Allied International lead up tournaments to these train Ivan and I had the misfortune chain of watching the awards ceremony the end. Oh I didn't. And it was full of indigenous representation. Smoking I'm from now. But there was a guy had came out and did chanting and clapping of sticks. which he I've been Lee said was to remove evil spirits from the indigenous trophies that were being handed Iowa and he asked for his ancestors to tie negative negative energy? That was in them. Now I put it to you dear listener probably a sort of an atheist secular person yet. They're the the some of you very sympathetic. To the indigenous cores if it was a Catholic priest who was removing Sidon wavering being a from portray we have to be consistent. We have to me. It's ridiculous isn't it. That in an increasingly singly secular society. At least we'd like to think it's increasingly secular that we tolerate this bullshit. It is utter bullshit regardless us of witch religion or which traditionally comes from this idea of chasing away. Evil spirits is just outta bullshit. Remember the remember we talked about. Australian students were doing really poorly when it came to educational standards on math. Thanks to the computer to the Asian Club. Yeah Y- Santa Pretty Bad. Well I read this thing. Which said one on explanation is that Western students in a test? That doesn't can't don't try. Try these tests. We're as yes Davis Cup of these dried ice and he doesn't care if he's in nowheres Ville America Cincinnati an aunt side court. Well I just know from my own kids experience That sort of practice exams dance. Whatever the case the daughter who was a dancer who really just didn't Kfi bet things cacique heading academic career? And I could imagine and that faced with test like this that Western students who would culturally be of a type that we're like what does it I can't to. My School doesn't count I K- compared to diligent Asian students who've been regimented. Hey always behind. Who would potentially try a lot harder? So cuddling article d listener where basically Siklie suggested now. Some of this was self reported with I with. I queried the students outwards. Did you try. And there are other things without looking at the taunt Teich in on exams and that's hard to guides because people could just be not trying to staring at a screen and not even really caring site anyway anyway. I thought that was an interesting sort of sort of cultural. Isn't it could be. That asked Younes on a test. That doesn't count that Troy Roy Moore silent others seems a plausible argument was implausible. Yeah okay you know. We talked about with boomers often. Are there grandfathering member in the last election. We talked about the negative gearing Basically gun inside the live apart. He was going to say well. If you've already got some negatively geared properties will let you continue to negatively gear. It's just going to be new artists and this happens a lot with different legislation particularly in recent times. I think we talked about better. Grandfathering call yes. Do you know why they call it in fathering as that term is. I don't think I'd do WHOA. It originated in the late nineteenth century legislation in America. We have basically they were trying to make it harder for black people to vote side. They introduced literacy tests to cy. You must have a certain level of literacy in order to vote and the problem was that they didn't want the illiterate white people to to not be able to vote said they had a grandfather clause which said we're introducing this new rule where you won't be able to vote if you can't read and write but if you'll grandfather Thatta could read an invite and that's kind of their with grandfathering as the expression of of this sort of law I I. I'd like to see that that principle applied to candidates for the presidency in why is that aw because Donald Trump according obviously knowing well hardly reads and it may well be only semi literate. Yeah Yeah So. That was an interesting one. I thought great interesting is the origins of right by the way deal is not next week. I'm a little bit underprepared this week. In one of the reasons is next week. We're going to get back to a little bit of the Bible. Study was cited popular. We're going to do something similar but what we do next week is GonNa take listeners. Through the opening chapters of Kenan Malik the modern in companies and basically look at how ideas of morality emerged and started with the signing of the Greek legends in the Iliad and the Odyssey and then the Greek Philosophers Socrates Plato Aristotle and the rise of Judaism and then finishing early Christianity and hopefully in that price is denouncing announcing the idea that modern morality emerged out of Christianity Zoo. It's going to be an examination of that and he was gonNA come along and I've started having having a look at that book you've got it. I've had it for a long time. I just haven't got around to reading it back. I started in the early chapters on a little little bit around what we're going to talk about. Yeah side I'm saying so. That's the plan for next week. And he rides very well two dozen Kenan. Malik do inside. So we're GonNA talk about morality. Its emergence in ancient times and look as I wrote topic and we'll also do a few ethical dilemmas lemos of some sort I think. Twelve main and use a few of them up here. 'cause I know probably just dealing with Kenan Malik where we're going to knock tuck it always ethical dilemmas. Unless new. But let's do it easy one the Nazi flag. That's an easy one so Daniel dangerous that we normally agree with things. We commend him for a lot of the work he does is. Maybe a Victoria So there's coupling Victoria who were flying in Nazi flag flag over the property in regional Victoria and he asked them Easter that should take it down describing it as absolutely disgusting behind you produce strong language. The people who had spying that despicable flag. It's just disgusting. It's absolutely disgusting behavior. There's any decency. In the household. Our type neck flagged down immediately and the I revealed that the couple had been flying the flag featuring a swastika over the home for several weeks regarding cools to ban people publicly displaying the symbol. Actually I'll probably have to say agree. Daniel injuries he could side them. I want you to take a day on. I think he should but actually passing a law telling them that after okay so I think that's good to say that's a pretty awful piece of imagery you've got the issue that down you know I can choose to ignore him or not but easy titled Dale Salema. Think that's pretty isn't dogs. His own opinion. I don't think he's entitled to impose his opinion on anybody GonNa pies it. He just sign in my opinion. You should take that flagged Dan. You'll supporting the idea of the Nazi. There was some discussion of amending. Certain in you know laws to to make it illegal. Certainly coming from the is that the anti-defamation League is that the one or the there was some Jewish group in Victoria. Roy We're calling to be to be actually outlawed now as you can probably guess. I'm against that because I think everybody they should be entitled to fly. Whatever freaking flag they like yes? It's a free country and the premiere of the state is entitled. I I think that's a shitty idea and I wish you wouldn't do right but if you're going to do it I can't stop you. Isn't that fair enough as well. He's entitled to Express. It's getting so I think I agree with any injuries on this one down. But he's entitled Cy. It is intolerable passing Lord. Stop them now but calling them. What you disgusting? I think going a little bit too far. I would probably you say a little bit distasteful. Some people might find it offensive but decides disgusting. I'm not sure that that's really really appropriate for you to be on. What is disgusting? Not Manati life killing people supporting regime violence against against people flying a flag. I mean it's not actually hurting anyone. Nine it's hitting somebody but it can still be disgusting hitting somebody. I'm I'm not sure. I'm offended by violent some offended by cruelty. I'm not offended by flags road and I know you love the idea of free speech absolutely but then free free speech also means the speech the free speech of others to criticize yeah and everyone free to criticize it and no problem at all to make an assessment decide. That's disgusting. Yeah okay. He's Andrews is entitled side. I just I think he's I think he's overreacting. I think the more the more oxygen you give that flag The more of a problem it becomes ignored for goodness sakes just say well. Why on earth would anyone want to fly and not flag? They must be idiots or they must be crazy but disgusting. I'm I'm not sure he's he's what I would say. I would say maybe their historical illiterate or maybe they actually like what the Germans did who knows house on the property. I WANNA fly stupid all flag that represents the death of not only Jews but tens of millions of ordinary people all over the world in Europe. Of course then you know if I want to be that stupid. They free to do so. It's a free country. I don't think we should seem reluctant to criticize. I'm reluctant tint to take away people's right not taking laterite but because you're saying look I want to know about people's bad ideas because because I want to be able to discuss and criticize so you. You seem reluctant for the Premiere to criticize. Well I think he went a bit of talk in saying they were disgusting. I mean he was basically saying they're bad human banks in a sense. Their behavior was deplorable. Mean they just flying a flag flag. They're not absolutely disquiet absolutely disgusting behavior. Exactly the people who are displaying that despicable flag. It's just disgusting. I think it's absolutely flag is just a flag. A flag copy. Despicable a flag is just a piece of material. The behavior of the people but in Nazi Nazi Germany was despicable. But it's a statement that seems to support that despicable regime. It may be but I'm not a mind android. I have no idea why those people normally a flying a flag would indicate support for the ideals of the flag. It may in fact well L. do that's the whole culture. Is that if you if you run up flag up a flagpole it's because you support that the the ideas encompassed in that flag tall at the front Iran up the American flag the Stars and Stripes poopie probably laugh at able would quite reasonably reasonably. Say A man. He supports America. Okay let's say. This man is an American Patriot in in that in that house but they also say there's a man who obviously supports all the bad things America's ever done it in the world. Would they say that some people might people who have a fixed fixated a grudge against America might say something like that. Let me give you another example. If I ran an isis assist flag up a flagpole people would probably say this man who supports Isis and all of the bad things that is is did probably and and not the good stuff of Isis whatever that might be worth a good stuff. I'm not sure that's the point of the Nazi flag like that's the point of the Swastika is nothing nice. Nice good at it. It's all bad in the German people. I just find it amazing that you're so pro free speech each absolutely win. The Premiere World to exercise at free speech and criticized. Which is the thing that you said that you have got Daniel Andrews the right to criticize? I bet you've you've decided to doing it. You sign you shoot you sign. He's giving air to it. You sign easing flaming a situation. I think that what we can't say anything of that can't trevor. Don't we interpret signed. We shouldn't criticize because we're drawing attention. Andrews is unwise to make makes such a big deal of it right because because it just gives oxygen to these people and maybe they get a bit of a kick out of flying the flag for that Ruth and I think for many joys free speech on surprise. You advocate the toning down of free speech for fear of of of repercussions advocating turning it. Dan I mean some people are entitled to express their dislike of the flag others entitled to say. Why shouldn't they fly flag? Now you may remember. Christopher hitchens very famously. Made a speech where he said. It's not only the right of people to express an idea. But it's the right of other people to hear alternative ideas and into then criticize. If they wished to Ah yes not be cowed into silence because of the fear of of inflaming a situation and giving on okay fair enough but but nor should people be cowed into taking down the flag if that gives them a thrill fly stupid in the chat room. Ross says it's what symbolizes symbolize. That is the problem through the people flying the flag understand its history and symbolism giants also says might have the Federal Police on your doorstep post it to my daughter I think maybe if I was defy flag isis something or with the. US flag wouldn't get you into again. Well that's interesting. I thought we'RE GONNA come to agreement on the Nazi flag. One also just in the chat room discussion onto the next topic. We are speaking time. Morality in Zebedee anger remains is. The origins of morality can be demonstrated in higher primate groups. And I agree with you. Zebedee in EPA side which has a tunnel something like whispering spring by two miles or something like that. If you search that on our website we did something along those lines i. He's another another one. Another AH ethical dilemma. A couple will lift stranded out of pocket after a rideshare driver refused to pick them up because they had a Christmas Ham him a couple of being dinner. They local our CIL in Melbourne South East but picked up a ham. Is I want a few weeks ago. Like ordered Uber approached the car and the driver said it was canceled and clearly he was a Muslim and he said he wouldn't take behind because he was Muslim and juice juice. Don't I mean practicing observing juice. Pick either right so I wonder if if the excuse me at that out if the driver had been Jewish showed up and said. I'm sorry I'm Jewish that's against my religion. I'm not taking. Would people be as outraged. Probably I would be. I would be pissed off if I had ordered boarded a Nova and they showed up and I was just about to get in the car and say could you popular plays. I've got this big hulking ham that I'm taking to my family. A Christmas get together. I would be pissed off too. Wouldn't you yes. Yes I mean the guy is working in public like service sector where he doesn't get to dictate what you're thinking back to the originals. The shop to I've got all sorts of your mind viewer pointing to feed a fall into the trap. Now I'm just actually interested in we go with this one. 'cause I thought I could predict you at times and I realize I can't accusing me of being inconsistent. I just I die where you're GONNA guys please. Is it open to drivers design now. I'm not taking you hand. Thought it'd be open to them. Well if someone look if I was a new job and showed up and the people were gonNA put a small holes in the back of the car I would say sorry not taking this much much shit on the tools and I miss up my car. You're drunk though your trunk. You might at vomiting my car. That is the bane of taxi drivers and drives. She's drunk people throwing up in the car. Because it makes you stink and you've got to clean it and basically days ruined. I think they quite entitled to Refuse People in those circumstances but a ham. Damn come on. You know it's not as if the HAM is going to contaminate his car. I know him sometimes has a bit of a smell but MHM now. I'm sorry I wouldn't accept that at all. Would you know. I'm not sure where I fall on this one. Strange thing Yeah mm-hmm I know where I fall in this one. I think it's kind of almost has to be in the Employment Contract Act to say you're gonNA take people's groceries and and you're going to Tyke people's if if they're going to stop it out I ah alcohol exactly. I was just going to say that what they had a box of alcohol and he said we'll Muslim and I don't agree with consumption alcohol so I'm not that different is so I think I think the companies entitled Cy. We can't allow APP. Ask people all of the things that they're going to be doing on this trip. We stopping at a bottle. I will you be carrying a ham. The young unmarried couple Zang back to a hotel for an illicit liaison on. Yeah what is the driver is a strict Christian and doesn't agree with Unmarried people cohabiting or even dating APPs APPs you know on on chaperoned. Yeah he might shop and say you're married so I kind of think. Where's your chaperone? I kinda think it's up to the company. decided in their agreement will. He's the rules on which you have to take people if you want to be part of that system if you don't like that part of the system grew but if I haven't said that in the rules have lifted item for people to pick and choose Tricky one if you're watching on facebook like alison they might be problems on facebook. Alison try Youtube what twitch if you were teenagers let you on the twitch channel wrought head to the website and there's links there as to various different places that we're streaming I K- that was uber. Drive is Nazi flag. Oh He's wonderful you bet starting and there's a video which is an off duty police officers starting to death and he chased the wombat while throwing rocks looks at it. He was indigenous and he climbs that he then shared the dead wombat with his family and and he also affecting his religious capacity yes and he had a perfect right to kill that warm back because it was traditional food food. He said he was introduced hunting native Tucker at a very young age. And as you're quite as you are all aware was my religious capacity and was within my cultural roy take the life of the walnut and that it was cleaned to pass onto family and then cut off and shared out amongst multiple other family to the point is it was a pretty cruel way to treat a wombat. And then we wouldn't allow that to shape. Is it excusable because it's a warm bed in its religious or cultural ceremony. What he in what he did what he neglected to say was that in? His religious part of his religion is to have somebody in a four by four and with the headlights on to make it easier for him to see the one bag because it was happening at night is ridiculous to claim that he's doing. He's behaving living in a traditional manner with somebody driving along the road but this poor terrified wombat running away from the to the car and throwing rocks at it. I mean what a what a ridiculous excuse he offered here CMO things happen with turtles in the New York where the only indigenous brothers and sisters who hop on Aluminium Bites with with outboard dugongs hunt the same way and and now capital and and it'll be on its back for a few as well a deciding what to do with it and pretty if if you're going to be doing indigenous hunting visually. I'd be much happier sideways. People want feller can hunt hunt for a turtle in Cape York Petra but indigenous person. Anyway because it's part of the culture but then they hop into why Western exactly and conducted more than invention of technological civilization which is not part of the traditional traditional y of hunting hunt the turtle. Surely they should be obliged to hunt using traditional mates yes but even then even if you he did use traditional means but you're actually cruel to the animal like let's just say he was run ran in the dark with the fire stick and at Stein in club. The thing in the same way nine. We still wouldn't be happy would bring so look I I I personally think. This is twenty twenty indigenous. People no longer need to go hunting. WOMBAT or turtles or anything else to survive. Hunting gathering was for survival was four subsistence. And no longer need that. So it's a bit of a cop out to say well we're GONNA go to the local store and buy out Tucker most at the time but just on a whim when we feel like we're GonNa jump in the outboard and go out and probably with a gun and shoot the dugong turtle or whatever ever because you don't hear this issue discussed amongst animal activists little not too much. They're a little bit. Maybe a little bit wary. It's just a difficult topic isn't offending indigenous people whereas in New Zealand. I think the lower is different. Isn't it in reference to this article about this indigenous chip. I saw an. I don't know I haven't checked it up. At somebody was saying people in New Zealand. A bit surprised that Australian indigenous people could use that as justification. Yeah because in New Zealand. Apparently it's not exactly open slather for indigenous New Zealanders to go hunting fronting. Both the Irish and wombat South Australia have cooled for the laws around indigenous hunting to be reviewed roofing Bush. Excuse my I that was that one Let me just say the community. Oh here's one. Aboriginal elders in a remote Western strong community want to ban Christians from visiting indigenous community said that the religious organization was attempting to convert them to Christianity and y from their traditional culture. A group of elders asked W is discrimination. Wash dog if they're allowed to forbid the Christian group from their community and equal opportunity. Commissioner of W I John Byrne said the religious group most likely wouldn't be able to lodge a complaint if they were to be banished libertarian -tarian twelfth man who is in favor of freedom of speech should the Evangelical Group flying into remote communities be banned or should they be out Xhosa freedom of speech and to proselytize throughout this failing and I wouldn't. I wouldn't ban Dan them necessarily but I would probably encourage the indigenous people to ignore them so you wouldn't end them not necessarily I don't think banning is necessarily good. I think banning people is really the solution to issues of ideology or the ideas generally. I think it's better to have somebody else. Show up and argue against perhaps they should be in groups or secular alert secularists sending people into kanter argue with these religious people Christians. Okay what do you think I agree in that. It's a free country. They should be able to travel. Go wherever you know. I don't like the idea of banning people people just for spreading ideas. That's dangerous as I like the honesty of the average in the elders in this community for at least saying that's not culture because I struggle with with Christian indigenous cultures. A next thing that I it always it's an oxymoron. Isn't prizes rouses me. How indigenous people embrace Christianity? You know If they so attached to the traditional indigenous this culture and they embrace this fight this bogus religion from the Middle East from Europe strikes me as so there are Christian organizations who are now visit remote communities across the state including a group called Kingdom aviation ministries and also chariots Marriot's of farm industry is what we're up against. Look when I was in university I was reading a lot about religion and missionaries and their American groups in particular which specializes in going out to various remote parts of the Globe and I'm trying to convert indigenous various kinds of indigenous people. There was one group that I actually contacted which had a an an office. I seen Sydney in the suburbs of cynical new tribes mission and they specialized in spreading the circle. Word of God to the beat the unreached who are basically indigenous people who were pretty vulnerable to that sort of outreach? Because they're we usually impoverished lacked basic services and amenities and so these new tribes missions and other similar outfits would go out and try and convert them to Christianity. They weren't interested in in much else to be honest from what I could tell. But from my rating of it the indigenous people that did convert were basically converting because they I saw these missionaries arriving with stronger. Magic than what they had people arriving in aeroplanes or the trucks with lots of good stuff. It's it's clear evidence that their magic is better and when you live in a society auty where the natural world and everything is basically inhabited by spirits and magic. It's pretty clear. Evidence that these interlopers Lopez have got stronger magic. So why wouldn't you convert to get access. It's like the got colts as we know in in the Southwest Pacific at the end the Second World War. It's the same principle. These people are not exactly embracing. Jesus they're embracing what they perceived to be a bit of magic and more effective magic final one year your cane bike rider well. I'm a borrowed some love box here. How do you feel about the compulsory lower belt wearing helmets? I'm not really fond of it to be honest stacking and I I in the last ten years of of spent time in Japan took my bike Mike over a couple of times and basically never warmer helmet in Japan. Wear hats to keep the son of face which I found much much more comfortable and much more useful than than helmet. I can understand the argument of preventing head injury to rational argument. I just don't like the idea of enforcing it and so anyway in camera the usual. That's right you'll be fond. They've brought audit flying with without wearing a helmet. If you're a fake but now the Sikhs have received a special exemption because of the turbine that they were makes it impossible impossible to wear bike helmets and now to comply with the Lewa religious religious privileges for well. I don't don't think anyone should be required to wear but I don't think that if there is a long if there is a lord should be applied uniformly. Of course. Yeah I think so as well I mean why is the law. It's because people fall off bikes get head injuries and we as a community in having to run hospitals with brain injury centers in fix them up and we drove a not. If you can in a turban isn't going to do anything of any real significance. How thick a bit like the roundup tale? There's a lot of hair under it and that's why they wear one isn't it because the Sikh men done cut the hair yeah the sorts of injuries that helmets designed onto avoid help avoid honestly. It's one way if you don't think it's important that the people there element and then get rid of the law but there was also the case some years ago in the UK where I think it was in the highway. Some seek cricket fans were permitted permitted to carry their little their little dagger on they built into the cricket ground or any other person if they were caught carrying of any sort would have it confiscated use in the Sierra manual. Dagga him double standard. It is well. That's part of different news. It's an article on a moment as I said next week we're going to do an morality. Hugh Harris Hi Fli and oh I think twelve main tonight we are. I think probably try and get Scott on maybe the following week I a reliable Internet connection at that point on. I WanNa thank the patrons. Actually because we had a few new site D listener we subscribe grabbed lots of right wing lift wing and middling he's and also buy lots of books and say oh you're getting this subscribers to feel books yes I am a side. If you want to help out. You can become a patron adult show. All all we ask up on our website on film club Dot Com. You can join people like Sean Snell. Cry John Land. And why now. A Jahmai Allison Steve Tiny title Jimmy Spud Kind Rahman Maj.. Robbie Rod Palais Medic Man. Dominic Leeann dive. Daniel Harry payday kept and dooms die. Weet what CHA ZSA Andy. Murray Molina Adam professor. Doctor Dentist Andy. Murray Andy End. Murray Glen Craig Matthew Alexander Zehnder. Pull Tom Terror. Could meal Kim. Donnie Darko Clinton Gavin. John tiny yet another pink fan. Dan should be morally yet. Another pink and Fan waving to do book reviews. He is going to read a book. I the and I can't remember the name of the one I recommended and I'm decided I'm GonNa Rape Pinker. I've got it here to have an enlightenment. Now is the volume yarmulkes America and we can just got that so we can both of them and Graham recent sort of patrons include Graham Mark Citizen Six and David you just joined a dying. Thank you to all those type of textile school by school. And thanks to the non-patrons do directory pay Pal Dean. Ken Was the beneficiary Mr Anderson Korean men. David Bibb in Damian Damian from redline digital all of your wordpress needs wine and jared diamond helped me out when I just couldn't fix something on this process and these sponsors over time being was wine I lane Brahmin Dive Adam Lane and Caitlyn sack captain dunes. Dying Glenn Steve. Somebody who gave us a high might be because Could you get in contact again. The PITNEY sent. I might be because I can't find the email the MRIs and I wanNA correspond with you and thank you probably and because Scott Sawai I'm GONNA lose track of the sort of bees sponsorship stuff so yeah thank you to the people who support us. It's much appreciated. And and and yeah. We'll be back next week with the topic and if you've got topics that you'd like us to discuss and perhaps encourage the listeners. To have a look at that book because it's quite ah interesting book now the The candidate I like Kay. What's it called again? Such from all compensates search for a moral compass. A few book reviews this year. There's another that I've been going through. And I think not to a few book views when the sort of Cardiff as the time is Disa- more signing look after that wrought side thank you for the people in the chat room sorry facebook sort of went in in and out of it but anyway if you've been listening to the podcast you missed all that so anyway. Thanks for joining US talk to you next week. Thanks everyone by Feast Glove Glove twelve men hard bottom here. You'll last episode was only one hour long and not the one hour and thirty thirty minutes. I've become accustomed to you own me. Thirty three cents. And if I don't get it I'll be sending some rather large chaps around there to perform their own kind of knee surgery on you.

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Episode 254  Trade Sanctions and Forseeable Harm

The Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove

2:01:35 hr | 4 months ago

Episode 254 Trade Sanctions and Forseeable Harm

"We need to talk about ideas. Good ones and bad ones. We need to learn stuff about the world. We need an honest intelligent thought provoking and entertaining view of what the hell happened on this planet. In the last seven days we need to sit back and listen to the Iron Fist and the BELVA glove still is now. A lot has happened in the last seven dies. It's it's busy times in the world in a little study of society course. We're conducting here on the glove. Podcast this momentous changes happening. That normally might take several years and they happening in the course of a month or two so. I and trevor the Iron Fist with me as always is pulled main groupings. Earthlings and stepping in for the velvet glove is was the bees sponsor could only was get listens to not deal is now. We've got a few topics to talk about. And if you're in a chat room say hello and startled some conversations in there. We'll try and get to any comments we can. So what's on the agenda? Well we'll talk. We'll talk a bit China. Obviously I mean it's been in the news. We talk about time even on the news. So we're GONNA be talking about China and we'll talk a little bit about nineteen and we'll talk a little bit about free speech in vaccinations and sorry was bullish is only five. Football is and a few things along the wide but China foreign policy and all that sort of stuff that only lead off. I'm just GONNA say language warning by the listener like on this podcast we Topley if would five. Yes that's it I am. Look this Morrison. Government is in my view and that was proved again this week. So they mocked up the whole cave not well knocked up to fall the fires the bushfires for starters they mocked up the Cavanaugh economic risking. Because like I have money to companies that in travel then like have big money to job seeker which encouraged employers to sack people and then when it was too light then guide money to the employers and said he's money to your employees rely on them then. I did it in such a way. Where the employers had to come up with the list cash because there's a big delay with. I had to pay their employees his money before. I'd seen any cash and these guys pride themselves on being experts in business and understanding business and if library had done half of this stuff they would have gonna live and understand anything they had business fundamental errors a bit have no knowledge of what else have. I mocked up. Will the monkey up here relationship with China? We'll get into that into town halls and they want a mockup future rides by. I'm Peter Dutton to sit up. How Stars looks like being busy boys when it comes to stuffing things so I think say that just dying understand stuff and if I knows marketing yes. He Does Not Marketing. It's sane. Well. He doesn't actually because he uses shitty market when he was in the Australian Tourism Board Zealand. One my sack delays active. So he's he's campaign with Lara Ulan. But where the hell are you? Campaign was terrible so it wasn't well received nine waste of money so he doesn't even know marketing. But what did you think of the the campaign again with that much? You don't remember remember we're Bingo and Bluer Bingo. Yeah so she was outstanding. Remember things like that. So we're GonNa but before we do. It's also that wasn't bad in half the protests in Melbourne and Sydney. Yes I ever like all sorts of conspiracy things to do with five g. In Corona virus and people there was a crowd in Melbourne. Who were chanting for Bill Gates to be arrested now Australia for Bill Gates? Yeah for goodness fact shared with you a couple of weeks ago. Full percent of Americans think that the world is controlled by Lizard. Overlords and four percent of the population is twelve and a half million people actually believe. Lizard Iva Lords control the world tomorrow? It's and I'm really depressed because of my right wing frames you have right wing friend apart from wing. Tiny tiny and David David lauding be listening Allen. Jones just been hearing so much anti-china rhetoric and sort of pro-trump talking points On on facebook and social media. Just I just can't believe people falling for this. But why linking anti-china with pro-trump. I'm seeing from the people. That's what I'm saying. I'm saying really anti-china we shouldn't stop selling stuff to them. That'll take jobs. Stock Bond Sleep truly. Let's stop selling them stuff because that'll teach them and I just want to soften the Hindu. That's not how it works That's that's not how it works. But do you ever get that feeling what failing when you hear somebody say something about China and how it. We'll get on to China very soon but before we do just one more thing. I got this article from the Australian Thaddeus. China is good for something like we do pick and choose when you run out of Donnie pipe. I do at some occasional arts. Even the worst of sources can sometimes come up with something good and my neighbor pointed this to. He is well. These are taught us one of Brisbane's respected consultants EXP- sort of Cross with the House and doing lots of people in the insolvency willed and basically they signed this a ticking time bomb in the economy where Morrison has promised until Taiba a bunch of money for different businesses. He got and the other thing that I've done is I've said normally in bankruptcy if you lay out your company to try and you know it can't hide Stitz then you become personally liable for those debts but during this corona virus Crises the government said is a six month moratorium on that rule. So if you just persist allow the company to keep going we want you not going be caught with the ditz inside. There's a lot of companies out there that would normally of wound up but I figure Taiba and apparently there's just a heap of them ready to crumble come Taiba and a bunch of other businesses which might seemingly be ACI but there long on payments from those Zombie companies. We're not in the woods by long shot. So is that a bad thing that some businesses go out of business lock if they're inefficient isn't a opportunity to clear out there. A lot of business normal economic circles. That sort of happens naturally rot. So this isn't normal and you're right though. It's going to be clearing. At of a lot of marginal businesses were be some short-term pine obviously they'll at Mar actually proved to be beneficial in the longer term. It would better if he could do a graduating rather than a big shock because even healthy businesses kind of stain falls over in the spice sets right. If it happens really quickly never been a business person so I don't really understand but Emirati and assuming there are a lot of small to medium sized businesses who basically are always just getting by on a cash flow just making a living and that they can have a successful business of over many many many years just because of that constant cash flow coming through the business. Soon as you stop that it falls up falls over does well. I think what you're saying is just marginal in that I only ever just piney. Ditz pine themselves enough and there's never much left. Item is kind of what you signed a lot of cafes lot of mom and dad businesses along a lot and said point is big problems ahead. Come October then. There'll be a thousands of businesses falling over. It seems that why if you're in business think carefully about where the guy to give credit to your customers and taking cash eilly because even what might look like a solid business could be shaky very soon and don't take anything you here on. This podcast is financial aid. And we're going to get to that. Don't take financial legal advice from a podcast. Seek your own professional advice. Blood casts off will be one of those businesses sponsors with patrons in this coronavirus era. You have saw in the last month. Lyft SAIGA Data Scott. If he's listening and let him know that. I'm drinking brew Dog Punk. Rpi because that's what he used to do his on he did. I say I got involved with the show as the sponsor Scott. Maybe back next month. He's GonNa move hello chat room to. Kb Watcher Xanthi and Ross. Right China the charges given initial spiel and then you can just decide to speak that. I've got exposed. This is a delicate matter of diplomacy Australia's relationship with China. Fortunately deals now are have experience in delicate diplomacy. You have experience to is. I'll be a terrible anti hit because because I work in the Australian art supplies industry and nothing is more delicate and more complicated than that. Yes yes and here's the reason because in most industries you've got suppliers and you've got customers of some sort and usually I only have the one hat like you. Normally you'll the person selling something and the person buying something and it's usually a fairly uncomplicated. Relationship that nod industry will. There's a lot of we've got a number of customers who have retail shops that we tried to supply stuff to their customer but at another level. They're also running wholesale businesses with they competing with us and trying to sell this sort of similar products to other shops side. Both there's a lot of players who will hell silos in retirements so on a bit of an observer get too involved in it But all I hear a lot of stories inside you'll be having a meeting with somebody way at one point you've got a hat on way you'll the supplier and the customer high wanted to these and then at the same time now. They are your competitor. Do you don't WanNa tell them too much about what you're doing. Because they might use that information and and whatnot and it's a tricky relationship because you wanNA keep them on side as a customer to keep bond stuff but there's always a tension because you'll competing with them in selling stuff to other people in other shops. Does it San Tricky? It does in fact. It sounds like you've missed your calling in life. Well so he's he's the point with China. We have a couple of different relationships with them. We are trying to sell them stuff. That's a significant relationship. But on the other hand we have hundreds and twenty three billion dollars worth of stuff. Yeah every year but on the other hand we take out hats off and we had this other relationship of sovereign nations arguing. Iva stuff that nations argue Iowa and who their alliances with and and what other countries I control will don controllable wise or All that sort of buying stuff. Yeah so selling buying and but from point of view my studies waste selling stuff rather than buying stuff but we do need Chinese goods Come CORONA VIRUS TOM. We needed in ventilated. So so it's a relationship took so back to the industry when you're dealing with somebody and you've got to at some point you have to make a stand and Si- Nao. I can't agree to what you want. Sorry but here a more legitimate reasons and I hope you understand. Please keep by my products from me because I think you should see that. I have legitimate reasons for disputing with you in these other areas. And you don't go out of your Y Z. Piss off your best customers eat. Don't start fights if we can help it. Sounds like common sense intimate? And and and if you do start a Fi- it's one way you know you've got some possibility of getting what you want. If there's no chance you died start so to me with China. What we've done there is. We've said we've picked a fought with them. I have something that we cannot win side. We said to them and this way you need to get to the history of what happened in the last few months we said to them we think there should be an inquiry that looks into how the virus started in the wet markets of. Wuhan and we also say I think we said that not we did. I mentioned that. They didn't mention well in China. But obviously referring to Wuhan. I'll let me just see. Let me find that exact point on this. He's what Morrison said on the twenty third of April. The sort of inquiry that they wanted was that will health organization Vista guys will begin the same? Pows is weapons inspectors to forcibly enter a country under an Australian government plan to avoid a repeat of Curve. Dane global epidemic and I called for an international review of walled life markets. And the new which are SOM was suggesting were drastically altered the operation of the World Health Organization or giving it to go into a country to investigate a disease outbreak without the express consent of the nation's government. That's what Morrison was asking for. Absolutely no way that China would ever agree to that. Very many countries would of course not. So why did you even say that? Exactly who would agree to that? All you're doing is signing your some Shitty tinpot little developing country that we can push around Tell me about the embarrassment that China Phil. What does one hundred hundred days of embarrassment? Yeah like they. Deeply resented deeply deeply resent the humiliation of the nineteenth century in particular. Yeah ready to nineteen thirty hundred syncing. It's deeply ingrained in the humiliation. I will never ever again suffered that humiliation. You have to be a diplomat with twenties experienced. Deny that into now that this proposal was simply insulting any outrageous to a customer. When you didn't need to be agree with you. I think Morrison was incompetent if he actually said that absolutely of couched it in in a much better way. Couldn't he that there's a big problem for the whole world? We need an inquiry. We need to understand how it happened. I think that's fair enough. I don't think there's anything unusual or extraordinary about having an inquiry now short now if we could come in ny the outside will he wasn't asking. You. It was more a demand he was signed. It was going to be like weapons inspectors. Yeah we'RE GONNA keep down your front door stormy without the express consent in the nation's government. Why the happen in China but exactly so that was just picking a FI insulting customer. Now Okay you. What he should have said was China. Let's work together. And what will you agree to in terms of like a thousand different wise? He could've phrased that Achieve that purpose and it was basically the day after he had a conversation with Donald Trump. So it really looked like trump at the time was blaming China for the for the world's problems so it really looked like a trump said to the Australian lapdog gallant. Stir UP SOME TROUBLE. One point you try and get this stuff you can see how that perception would arose so but then Birmingham out trade Minnesota. I think he's been extremely diplomatic and speaks very well. But it's not because little prayer has come out what's his position agriculture agriculture. Because what's happened now is China has agreed to inquiry basically the WHO will conduct to look at the world response to the pandemic right. So that's what China agreed with which is a completely different kettle of fish. But I haven't had literally prayog world's rashawn little out of said. Oh there you go well. With China's agreement to that that proves of strong willed later on this issue and China's comeback to die said he fucking idiot? Like that's a suggest okay so speaking of diplomatic language the Chinese have violated. That didn't say actually you're fucking you know it's a joke and just not very different as well. I think if I was a Chinese art of Senate. If you've if you've suggested that you're gonNa send any like a whip inspect country without consent in area near where saying well. We'll talk to the WHO and we'll agree to honestly good on China. You kid well. They're not being very diplomatic. Morrison fucked up Birmingham. I think has handled. Meta very very deftly and now the Chinese Embassy in cameras basically don't care how we feel about anything they like. You guys were joke you I mean that's not very diplomatic. Well they basically saying we've got power and you dimes and like an awesome. That Pale insult us. We'll just have check out some of this retaliation like exactly yes? That's what pain. That's what superpowers do. That's what people with power do when you get pissed by somebody hang them in like that but essentially Endeavor that just whilst goodwill on necessarily comply goodwill there was because let's face it the relationship spent a bit strident for a while. Now Yeah so be a tough gig being a diplomat though. Wouldn't well if Morrison's lock that it doesn't have to be wonder why shot his mouth off backbench full of nutters like favorite anti wells and hasty and people who are just China Haider's who would just egging him on. This is a bunch of them there. There's a lot of anti-china rhetoric from these people who see the evil communist empire and as we discussed last week there right on that port all the evils contradict believable or the communist part. They not communist they are communists. Communism is the Steiner ship of the means of capital. Not Anymore control up. This is twenty first century trip. Carbon Communism's is now is the Communists control the government and they let you run your business. As long as I get the kickback. He's a he's a listen. You know when you see something like the People's Democratic Republic of Congo or something well just because they have democratic in the is that's false advertising the North Koreans call themselves democratic as well so when you when you have the Communist Party it doesn't mean that the Communist and in fact I've said communism is our goal. It's not where we are. It's seriously pull communist because this simony billionaires and millionaires in China now assignments is privately owned. And it's a market economy like it's directly control production a probably indirectly there are certain certain things like wildlife would be ironed by the government for example is a good example wrong so that was a case where. Australia was Roy to Sei Nakai when not letting you so you agree with that. Yes on what grounds because while was clearly a part of the government arm. You wouldn't allow any government to control your telecommunications you wouldn't allow any foreign government to control so that's one way as a minor pale. We could cite a China now in here area reasons and we can actually get what we want because we get to decide not in the same we could. Si- wing stop all flights from China. Because we can we can sign. We're going to stop. But we can never say to them. We're GONNA force you to take care of inspectors whenever they want to renew your country force them to. There's a big difference. Say you got a now. When you've got a chance of winning you die so I still think you're wrong about the Chinese Communist Party the very much communist party. They've just decided that a market economy works veterans say purposes but the Communist Party right that they're not interested in in people owning the means of production. It's not challenging their economic. Ma means they not communist is being in the Communist Party. Gets you an inside running to being partly all Gandhi? It's an it's an oligarchy market economy? Yeah it's it's capitalism but you could use the same reasoning to say that no communist party ever has been a communist party. Couldn't deny you could find some examples of of their well Cuba. You could. Cy Was Communist. Yeah so there would be different styles at different times. You could say we're communist so you couldn't say that today's China is Communist. If you're starting a business in China and you yeah it would pie to be a member of the China's Congress absolutely absolutely if you if you want your business to succeed. Absolutely if they're not control direct pay kickbacks to the local Mati Representative. Of course they have their hand in everybody's pocket so it's a means of acquiring power but it's entirely different to being combing the state we need a new definition am quasi-communist if I think they just a Communist Party. That are denting you to this last year. Last last week or two weeks ago you agree with me when not communist this? He said I never thought of it that way. I guess you're right. Look I think you could you know you can make all sorts of arguments to search your purpose about communism about capitalism whatever rate of Archie Brown the history of communism and it gives a really good explanation of how Communist states have have risen evolved phone away? And it clearly not coming. It's been raining quite a lot about coming about China. Few weeks right been swatting run by my university when you go to an oligarchy of princelings owning everything that's capitalism that's not communism that doesn't make them capitalists. It's not communist okay. We agree to disagree. Maybe it somewhere. In between especially an odd given a definition of of communism meaning the state irony ship of the means of capital that's communism gets stayed on state control of production ownership as well and control. So you tell me what your definition of communism that it falls within that probably control it but don't own it but America economy. I think they've just adapted to the talk and they've definition of communism that that makes them communist but doesn't make New Zealand Communist. I'll get back to you with my definition next week kind but what I would I would say is that Because you just can't say all the not you have to. Every Communist Party has adapted it to their own circumstances the Russians got Leninism. You know they they even called Marxist Leninism in China became Marxist see. It does on labels you give the take. People's Democratic Republic of Congo isn't democratic. Like just because you give live you have to look at the underlying truth. Mri in the chat room. Everyone in their Blair Steele says. It's very hard to change to cash if you've given a line of credit to your customers that's where I said don't give credit but what you do. Is You offering a discount and convince them to see I D say I give them in that way right okay? And what else? You don't want to say that China. Yeah. So here's the other thing is uproar about Beef and Bala and Bali So borrowing so wait watches in the chat room and watch Santa Message earlier signed. Don't you dare wink Bali to save it and I think he's right. I certainly has linked it. Yes so the beef. So I've got a link to an article about dumping and this is gone by go. I called way why why Juan Shoot Zoo Chinese for weight watcher. I think it could be very close. China is very good trump a anyway. He's in this article. This guy's sign that this whole problem anti-dumping stuff is being good going a for years in essentially Australia bicycling accused China of Dumping Steel Jason. You among other things. Yes amongst a whole bunch of other whole bunch of other and is accused of China and therefore imposed sort of extra duties and sanctions on Chinese products. And really his article signed. This is a response to that which I had enough of that. And we'll take on Bali and that done it because it's one of those ones where it's going to be really difficult to sail about anywhere else and it's going to cause maximum. Pine China can easily get the Bali from somewhere else. The mainstay side so it seems to be more of a response to the dam. The anti-dumping sort of can can you just explain to the deadliest dumping is yes so dumping is way so the Chinese assigning the price for the Bali as it's landed in China that we're selling it to them. Gas is cheaper than what Bali is sold for in Australia. This funny business going on that means that that you are providing some subsidies somewhere along the line that In countries like it went a product is dumped on them because it often means that their iron industry can't compete. Probably could that possibly be? That was selling knotty five percent of the Bali that we produce to China and it's just so cheap because of the volumes law. I imagine there is some economies of scale effect. That ship it across the nation. Yeah that would surely at some cost you pop it in the ship get it across like just imagine that we sell a lot of Bali to China and China has been accused of dumping for many many years now and not only by Australia but by whole range of countries particularly the United States China was dumping according to the Americans a whole range of products like very important products like steel for example and it put American steelmakers out of business. I think it probably does some Australian steelmakers business. It could do if you it to happen. But but where we're producing it and selling it to Chinese markets shape them. What the Chinese the Chinese Bali growers can grow. That's that's the mind problem isn't it? They're trying to protect their own industries. That's normally the rationale Complaining ABOUT ANTI DUMPING Complying dumping that's Bali that's grown in China and it's sending the China's that it could will on as under but it could will be that they've just picked this as a product. Maybe there's not a strong Bali producing sector in China. But they've got lots of options to get body from somewhere else. I can see that can score a few points and the cheaper and better quality want an easy one weight. Watcher who literally is elite watcher? Exit grimy stuff in the Chevy talking to immigrant. Well he said their quality factors cove is one of them and he says you're kind of on the right track dot dot dot dot dot dot. That's good that's very diplomatic watcher. So so yes so so with the Bali It seems to believe that this is a long running thing in China's sighing. And has anyone asked. Are there Bali producers in China? Whose BUSINESS IS THREATENED BY. I thought that's what dumping was all about usually so much that you are selling it to annex overseas market cheaper than what you are selling to customers in your iron content for brewing beer and stuff isn't it is there about the industry and we've got a free trade agreement with China so I would have all of this would have been Nice County dumping under fake Thought anti-dumping closes would attain written into free trade agreements. Like let's try across. Those limits will try to his ASIAN AGREEMENT ON DUMPING. Yes is under the General Agreement. It's not necessarily under the falls so this applies to any country said that Bali full under the free trade agreement that will even with Free Trade Agreement Dumping Charge against another free trade agreement simply says between these countries we agree. We have really low or nonexistent duties to encourage try. That's what a free trade agreement does says it limits on us at ease. It still doesn't mean it depends on a free trade agreement. There's all sorts of exceptions and limitations and provides is written in various industries like we had a free trade agreement with America. We thought griped will finally be able to sell got to the Americans are actually not so sure. Yeah she can't shoot off the table so these free deca to hammer out and telling me they got no detail in what? What are they talking about? For ten years they haven't having processing quantities. Any weight watchers is the anti-dumping climb is specifically in relation to Tuesday estimates. Sixteen stallion Bali crop. In that season we produced a record breaking crop wrought and the Chinese have accused Australia of subsidizing. It through things like fuel excise us. How the government doesn't charge excise or they re they reduced the amount of excess they charge on diesel fuel on farms and then want in Mount and Mont and there was one more thing that I read in one report and it was about the government investing money in infrastructure for the Murray Darling Basin Irrigation screen now the Chinese sighing because the Australian government put money into the immigration infrastructure. Irrigate irrigation. Sorry not immigration. Obviously that they counting that is a subsidy but the Australians made the point that a lot of this barley comes from within the strata. Yeah which is about as far in Australia as you can get from the Murray Darling. Basin set clearly. It's it's not relevant. At least in. Maybe some any should get what you're onto explain well being and he saw a say send me the zoom link. This is really testing. My my Steffi's I will see if if he can join us. And your ability to multitask is fantastic. Well did speak to. We'll see if he turns up and I'll it exceeded what if you can zoom in so anyway. Here's the thing that gets me. Abedin's is the rule about China flexing some muscle on tried. And how dare I in response to cover nineteen or or just in response to Al Anti dumping stuff like this sort of tit for tat? Sort of Sort of action between countries is quite normal weight watchers on the screen. If you look on the screen you'll see on the more picture is the link detail for things so to give you an example with with beef like way Last year we used to explore a lot of the to the issue And the reason we did was because the AU had fought with America. I've alive and some of US THINK. Oh man so then what did America do? I apply pressure at all. We're going to get rid of GONNA do some other thing with you. Which put pressure on them today site? Actually we're going to stop buying star beef from you and that means we're good bye beef from Australia. And it's just normal part of doing business. Exactly when did people sound Goddamn Americans? They taken a beef business. The double standard. Like if you want to Greider China doing This sort of activity than a bit. All we are the ones that they do or and gripe about a country taking away some of their business we signed up for fighter jets from the US and we agreed to buy seventy two jets. Seventeen billion dollars and part of the deal was some of the parts will be made here which will be worth about one point. Three billion right. Donald trump coupled is a guy. That's a cry. We're not going to do that. We should be making all this stuff here in good of a fact that American jobs and in what does nothing about that. Morrison's response are had assist electioneering. Bluster from trump. Said he'd wait and see what happens. But where is the right? If you're going to be outraged at screwing us you consistent be consistent. Where's he at rides coming from though? Because I think I haven't seen any outrage from the Morrison Government. I'll just say outright from the media and and links pain drawn between the tariffs on Bali and beef and links pain John Back to cover name because a good story and I imagine if you were to quiz the average dry in about this and ask them was China doing this. They would wouldn't hesitate to cy all that because we wanted an inquiry into Bali obviously and there's no evidence to suggest that it's got anything to do. There is evidence. Actually what evidence is Apparent well timing with the beef. Yeah it would appear that the beef is about fine details like regular labeling and yes playing going on for no. It hasn't well it may well but the beef one of the beef producers in question was interviewed and he said. Look. This is not the first time. It's not new. We're used to dealing with this kind of compliance issue. He called it a comply. Yeah I just think it's but made it clear that they picked on just four particular beef producers and one of them's channels part. John signed as as as as a sample just to demonstrate what they can do to us. You know what I mean. They didn't pick on every beef export to strata. They just picked out a few and said I will will block these funds to start with and see how you guys like that. And if you think that we're not serious but that's not damning evidence to say that we're doing this because stemming taunting is pretty strong indication that there is a link between but if you're in the booth and the total of that wouldn't stand up as evidence. It's highly speculative so. The timing is suspicious. Very that's the timing that's it yeah But when you say that I don't see anybody complaining will have you been reading the letters to the Editor in Korea Mile. A raid them religiously. Trevor this one is from Nick Barker at Stafford. It's time now. Government started applying hod bold you to China's suspension of beef exports and the possibility of an eighty percent tariff on Australian. Bali firstly terminate the ninety nine year lease on Darwin Harbour and all water leaks agreements they have purchased secondly restrict them from buying properties due to the downtown in property prices in the exchange of the DOA thirdly if they want to call and I will make them pay the price. We sit not what they demand. I'll let's there's no easily done nick. We'll just make them pay the price. I hope mick feel better after that letter and send it But that's that's the media whipping up that right. It's not the government being outraged. It's relatively on if you haven't picked up on it yet. I don't think anybody puts a lot in. We'd have put a little store in comments from random members of the public. Do it attention to the podcast. I just think there's a lot of anti-china rhetoric whipped up and I think are just trying to give the other side looks at Chinese have formed. Trevor let's face over the last few years they've been repeatedly pushing the limits in the South China. Sea is a very clear example. They were taken to the International Court of Arbitration. For the I think it is by the Philippines government. The Philippines government won the case and the Chinese just thumbed their noses at it. It goes Chinese. Have a lot of because point one thing on the South China Sea like an Erica wants to silence ships through the China's imagine if China was decide that ships off the coast of Florida in similar fashion. Emily do night. Are you sure absolutely not imagine what the opera would be? If off the coast of California Roll of Florida as close as what U S ships are to to China imagine. Janis had their ships warships doing as they just be very surprised. If they're not how do you know because we know they're not you had to you know because it's I read? They certainly sowed down the off the coast of conduct the same sorts of look when I showed up in a stronger off the coast. Holy Shit See. Remember remember when Australian having wargames on the coast of Queensland and I went there was a Chinese intelligence ship shock that they were actually. I've done it every time. It was a shock to bed. Come from I didn't think it was such a shock. I think they expected this to be from me. Evidence that the Chinese regularly conduct the sign sort of maneuverings off the coast of America. It doesn't happen very surprised if they didn't it doesn't happen but we are tending towards a culture. Where there's good and bad doors lock. It's becoming very black and white and blind. Walt Disney for to be honest but will the last couple of generations of just growing up watching. Tv and movies where there's a definitive lawn between the good guy in the bag. Your truck. You're either one or the other is no gripes. No Inbetween and people have taken that into their personal laws. And it's like well. The good guys was not always does then think I grew up watching Disneyland tune. I I share your feeling about this. I think Disney has healthy influence in popular culture. But when last thing on this before we move on to other issues so this one in the John Menatep log where it says that the commentators on China get away with that lane statements that don't pass the most minimum scrutiny tykwer example Dr Clive Hamilton. Statement commenting on tensions with China and broadcast on. Espn TV. On the fifth of my that quote the United States is not going to you know actually undertake some sort of military action but Beijing. My well do that. Yeah that was a really dumb thing to say. Who's Club Hamilton again? He's he's. He's like in charge of the Australia Institute. And he's written various books like he's leftish intellect saying he's a really remember trump side but he's a real anti China sort of character anyway. That's the sort of stuff that happens in. Spf hold on a minute you talking. You cannot be serious. What do you expect on? Espn what decide again. He said that the United States is not going to unilaterally undertake some sort of military action but Beijing. My world do that. So we saying cheese of America doing it when Neil McDonough did. I think he's got a right to say that. If that's his opinion he can sign. Try to switch it up. To free speech argument he can sign it but SBA should've said will biased on the evidence of history of the last seventy years e. You have no reason to say that. Because if what we've learned from previous conflicts is that if anybody's GONNA start a military conflict from he would probably say in response to that you know to different America in their role as the will. Police have got a for a few bullets. He might wilder and then but in which case it proves that he's wrong if because as the world's police they're out there firing bullets regularly. So you can't say they not going to start something will they wouldn't start something with China because it wouldn't be in their interest to start something which on it would damage. Them's it's adly economically if I started a win China but are you selling military hardware in which case was a good thing. I'm sure there's some businesses within America. Who would because I'd have war with anyone ultimately military equipment but ultimately it wasn't in America's interest to go into the Vietnam Punch on the nose didn't work out well for them nine. It worked well for the arms manufacturer that nobody else. Yeah or sorry weight watcher. If you couldn't work at that same link I think I've got it running. I can't see you China to join but if you have sorry this can't say you. I K free speech. Native axes get into was deep breath. Football's let's start with some ethical principles and some legal principles and then apply them to the practical situations faced with so pre speech ethical. Stuff the harm principle says people should be free to act however they wish unless the actions cause harm to somebody else so this is a central tenant of the political philosophy known as liberalism and was first proposed by English philosopher. John Stuart Mill so and Frito actors wish provided dined. Cool was harm to somebody else. Sounds like a good Bisi starting point. Yep All agreement on that depends on what you call home nothing. That's that's the bit indeed. So the sticking point comes in trying to define what counts is harmful so a lot of people said a pretty low bar is so just some otherwise to think of these things so I've often mentioned in the past about buying a faulty toaster. Something he goes away. Have you ever heard of the case of Donoghue and Stevenson Ron any sort of introductory Lula subject in business course or if you do torts in law school it'll you'll be introduced to the donahue and Stevenson Smile in the bottle? Kayce side snail in a bottle race. Sounds like a drink bottle. Yeah yeah so up until this case if you were injured by somebody the needed to be some sort of contractual relationship so but what happened in this case was that Mrs Donoghue Drank. Gingy did smile on it And she sued joy nine silently after she drunk but first half that she didn't fit the rest of the bodily out they did style and she'd already consumed bottle and failed ill and went home so she sued the manufacturer. She did not have a contractual relationship with the bottle from the shopkeeper who had bought the bottle from the manufacturer here so shopkeeper saying why proud didn't do anything wrong like I just couldn't see inside the bottle dark glassy county. Expect me to check in exactly and that was where I basically said. What's Felicio able and career of this tour of negligence so bicycle you must take reasonable kid or avoid emissions which you can reasonably foresee would be likely to injure your neighbour so who is your neighbor. The answer is persons who are so closely and directly affected by my act that I ought reasonably to have them in contemplation as long as effected went on directing my mind to the matters Blah Blah Blah. Basically if you're manufacturing soft drink and you'll warehouses enough to have smiles around and the price is such that it's now could get into a bottle. You could foresee that somebody would drink it and therefore if you can foresee that sort of harm could happen and you're going to be liable even if you don't have a contract that's donahue versus team so so we've expanded that thing where we've got consumer loads so we cy when we're gonNA wipe until somebody drinks the smile in the bottle if we see a shoddy autumn as a matter of sort of consume will stop you from selling that item so you brought into the country some a toy. It's obvious that small pods can break off check kid. We're not gonNA white for some poor kid to suffer We're GONNA stop you even before the end. So that's sort of at sort of consumer laws of coming so with the healing. Church was selling the bleach all in the bottle. Right say the therapeutic goods saturation said. We're GONNA find you one hundred and fifty thousand dollars without even whitened for somebody to drink that bleach can goes. It's clear to us that this likely. It's going to happen so we accept and I think libertarian. Oh would accept that all my sensei fire like you don't have any issues with ask society controlling people's actions in that regard consumer protection is fine. Yeah so that's manufactured products. What did they are advice? Woods which case of MLC in Everett which basically decided you can have negligent misrepresentation on financial advice. Some some report was prepared about the financial viability of the company. And somebody else got hold of that. Report relied on end. Liverpool G by suffered financial loss sued the person who produced so basically similar principle if you produce a document of financial advice which is wrong knowing that somebody might use that Voss than you could be liable but if you're an epidemiologist and you produce a report that's horribly wrong and shoulders and we'll get onto medical advice in the second part of the leader. Stay with me on the here so you can be sued for bad voss right and that makes sense as well bad advice. Siamese Mike a bad bottle ginger beer you can be sued for so we have consumer laws on advice. So we're not have liked the therapeutic goods thing because you can't really you can't look at a container full of advice and got will let containers shit or like just doesn't work that way. So what we have is more like consumer laws on advises. So we CY. If you want to give this sort of advice way gunness DOPP your regulate you so financial advice. I couldn't on this forum side. Somebody heavily regulated WESTPAC shares. A great deal and you'd be mad not to decide something like that that's financial advice about securities and the law says can't do it But we can say. Don't drink boy to get rid of cavenaugh name we can confidently cited you. I'm leading up to. So the point is we are you happy with the regulation of financial advice stops shoddy people from giving it and that we say no people with this certificate and this training and and even as a lawyer with a law degree you have to have a law degree? Plus you've got to be registered as a legal practitioner of pied the Insurance. And then we'll let you give legal advice. Xilai these are all impositions on freedom of speech that we've decided off area because of the potential That could come down the track right talking to Detroit in. I said so. What's the what's the restriction on medical advice and didn't seem as much like its life that You can't call yourself a medical practitioner unless you have got the appropriate registration and you use that. In order to charge Medicare and Mike Money through the Medicare system but essentially a tight. Legal advice from podcast. He listened done medical advice. Can we give medical legal advice from either but it seems to me that it's it's loose in that people can sign medical things same stand. It doesn't like you know I recommend you drink this bleach. And it's not regulated in the sideline that we've regulated financial advis all regulated voice. What's more important consequence could be just as bad even worse. Yeah side what would you think of a proposal that if we've regulated these other forms of advice should we be regulating medical advice DECI? Absolutely yeah but pull you would cy. I would say you tell me what I would say back on onset of something to add like I think cam if if a medical practitioner like to be a registered medical practitioner. You have to have some sort of Lawson's or you'd have registered with the some sort of medical. If you gave voice you could be deregistered Isley. Yes yes that's where Doctor Dr. Cock was he the guy who was saying nasty things about people who will wanting you remember a few weeks ago. David Nine nine there was a guy was saying nasty things about people on on social media. He kinda got suspended from medical practice anyway. Sorry to interrupt you keep going but if you a TV celebrity like What's that guy used to be on the cooking? Show my kitchen rules or something. Run that goal paid Evans. Yeah if he gives advice on Diet and he has no qualifications registrations no law senses. You'd be idiot. Tyke it advice offing would. He is but isn't it isn't a guy guy and then on but if he's very savior of the Voss to go well. What makes you qualified to give me that advice? Show me your registration. If you show me your registration that tells me that the probably giving me a shoddy so there's that level of protection year but when it comes to financial loss for instance we would citing. You can't say that yeah like stopped. You're in trouble. What if you got financial advice off your uncle should your uncle be allowed to give you financial Vasco Jusu? Your uncle for giving you dodgy financial advice and he's a plumber nine naught. I think it'd come back to that loss and seeing and registrar is you know. There's somebody in my family who knows a lot about money and finance He won't give me financial advice. Roy I I've always assumed that he's just protecting himself. Y- even though we're family and of course I would never advice you can give me finance get a financial adviser that's found financial in other main. So I've I've long had the feeling through this person in my family That in fact you could just about anybody. If they gave you bad financial advice could you that he works in the business? Is that maybe that sets him up for legal action. Doesn't I don't know the specifics but I just find it interesting that we've highly regulated financial advice and legal advise when it comes to medical advice. We don't seem to have gone to the sign level of regulations to inside. That means we've got a football is in the wags running around giving medical advice that if it was financial we would cy stop right there but we died and it just seems to me to be a strange anomaly because you can obviously call and so about Getting back to those first principles is what you're doing foreseeable that it's gonNA cool his Risk and risk is measured in terms of likelihood consequences and Moi Moi input. Here is by giving. These footballers a platform. You're increasing the Lockley that the message is going to be heard by a bigger audience and if you increase the Lockley hood the consequence sties sign like the advice. I could give could lead to someone dying. That's that's as bad as it comes in. Terms of numbers of potential victims increases the likelihood of someone listening to that advice and taking it on so I think the media has a role he just not give them a platform and every time a footballer or a Wag says something stupid. They've got an obligation to not public. So you what then to censor it. They'll centers I think the media. Peiser all in this as well where they draw the line. It's interesting like with Evans when he produced that sort of piece of machinery with the lights. Twelve oh yeah. The machinery didn't produce it. Let's be fair. It's just something that he had that he bought. I think he was. Also an agent was so when it came to that particular item. We could say stop. I can't do it but when it came to advise we couldn't say anything yet potentially equally as likely to coors hop and he was fine Muslin. Us saying so. Why was he find because he had his married? It was a bad the GIZMO and not he's these words. It wasn't being fun for his word as being fun for promoting a gizmo probably didn't do anything and he was saying. It helps your health from curve at Dante. Or whatever is maybe yeah. Yeah so Interesting how these things looked at different times. People say oh good. All right of free speech was different. Lines that we have curtailed. If we can see that there is Bearing all that in mind. Let's deal with some footballers in apply some principals. So good luck. David EEK The British. Spiracy theories liaise so he had a podcast and spotify took him off. Yeah what do you think of that? So he's podcast is talking about links between five Jay and nine right so I guess spiracy isn't he? Also the one of the people who thinks that we're controlled by lizard overlords. He probably does. I think that's part of his background. So spotify spotify goal modifying titled T Taekema Off Youtube. They probably concerned that their lizard overlords would cross for allowing a competitor. I do but all would just question why they going so hard on anything. Any conspiracy theories related to cover and allowing conspiracy theories that could cause an equal amount of On all sorts of other different topics to just let just let them run like the guy in and there are cases of people taking bleach in stuff and actually So there are carried cases of people swallowing blake by some advice from podcasts or others. Celica tonight can easily foresee that Could Happen speaking people taking things. I saw Donald Trump. Today I think in an interview and somebody said to him. Would you advise people to take hydro chlorine or something? I forget I forget how to cite that. Yeah that and he said Yeah I take it and they said do what you take it daily. And he was like yeah. Yeah take it. I take your. He started talking good because it does cause heart issues. Not Things okay terrible yep anyway when it comes to spotify. I think IT'S AKA for spotify Q. Right the the participants on its platform. I might have a problem if they had appeal monopoly. In which case going to be a bit more careful about it It does set a dangerous precedent. Die When you're allowing companies like youtube and Google and spotify do that because did you. Did you hear about that video? That Youtube took down. There was I There was a medical research center in California. That was actually doing some proper scientific research onto the effects of you've a lot on the corona virus run and they published after trump might buffoon of himself during that press conference. They actually published a short youtube clip. Two or three minutes long. That explained exactly what I would doing. And I- journalist from the Neil Times wrote to youtube and got them to take the Youtube Clip Dan. Now that was that was a journalist at tacking. I- proper scientific scientific body to take down just publication telling the world. He's what we're doing because it didn't fit the narrative and it kind of supported what trump was signing. That wasn't rain started. Not really now. It's been it's been taken. It doesn't get reinstated and the the journalist was pretty proud of themselves brought a journalist. Kit Tiling free speech like those described those crazy Americans. I K- footballers I refusing to take the standard flu shot. So this is a handful of football. Yes not all footballers. Yes about two or three. I think was hitting Queensland and this probably a few maybe maximum concessions some of them. Yes so shoot a football la the I able to refuse the standard flu vaccine. Yes if it's in his contract but right his contract now what if what if the government Queensland as passed a law is cy win not allowing your football teams here Analysts that had the standard flu shot. Then yeah he's he shouldn't be allowed okay pulling up well but said the government said you're not allowed to come into the state and ply football standard flu shot correct side the said the tame and the NRL says sorry Bryce or sorry bill your way. We can't employ you anymore because we can't use your services because ECON into Queensland Apply Games now is that is that fair enough. Look my position and I'm not in any way shape or form anti vaccine. I've had lots of vaccinations in my life. But I don't think anyone should be obliged to take a vaccination is obliged to. He can just quit football so the quainton got him said so. Do you feel any sympathy for the employing in our real team and the inaugural commission signed him really. Sorry we can't have you on our in books anymore because you can't ply because you can't flights I don't know I don't know what to think about if it was something like Bala because we know Ebola is spread through close contact and splashing body fluids. I K over the Deel. You're talking about the consequence Chile. Football is a physical game with lots of body context. Something like Ebola and we knew there was an outbreak of a bowler in Australia. You'd probably say fair enough. Nobody WANTS TO GET A Bola that. If a football it gets influenza. They're not GONNA die on. I'm going to be on the side and all of this for a week two weeks whereas implying a sport where I could break my exac in other words except for lawsuit. Zip this element of risk in your occupation. The government is signing. You guys are all going to be sweating on each other. Scrums and all sorts of stuff. You develops flu like symptoms. We don't know if you've got the ordinary flu or Karanovacki. It takes a while a couple of days most well. Everybody who had contact with them has to go into quarantine. Because I'd say well we don't know if you will now normal flu or if your Carina virus that's why the government is saying you've got to have a flu shot because then we know if you develop a flu like symptom. It's highly likely. It's corona virus. Say Point drawing sign sympathy. What would you given the choice influenza or covered nine? I'm going to infect you with one. Which one which one would you? Which one do you choose in? Just the standard flu is this is. This isn't a vaccine. The actual physics. This is it this yes. I just wanted to stay in the flu in that guy. It's either no question about. Why would you consider having been nine to? The mortality rate is quite comparable. Isn't it. Well I think your your better chance with With covered on 'cause Most Ping get it to make it and not overwight and having morbidity risk unlike you the the infection fatality right and I quote me on this but I think it would also be higher for influenza and covered on alcohol. Use the infection for fatality right. The the mortality rate metality right for standard flu is fine and Carolina Var L. The middle aged can't be correct because only being one in their forties daw of covered nine and he was and having most of them are in the eighties and nineties and have at least one most of them have three co mobility's Ross. In the chat rooms says this sounds like medical advice but how many people in New York of cavenaugh contain tens of thousands but how many normal year of Influenza A. New York much less tens of thousands much less. I don't think so yes. Yes much less Because every year round the world hundreds of thousands cover non and what the the the mine. The only reason why wouldn't choose cows nine is because I'd have to go into quarantine and that would suck but the people who get covered nineteen Ri symptomatic and. Don't show any symptoms at all so with influenza. You might be Crook for a couple of weeks or a couple of dives left to go into a majority of people from the race. It's done who had covered nine. Haven't actually had a sniffle or cough shortness of breath any symptom. It hasn't affected their daily. Lives have been really surprised. When they've been diagnosed with it. Let's up the stakes. Choose BETWEEN A Bola and bubonic plague. Which wants this is a great guy that game way you choose. Who would we fought between Batman and Superman? Right so you're saying Thing grab one hundred papal and effect one hundred people with standard flee and one hundred. Papal WITH CORONA virus of allied groups tainted health That your chances of dying Greider with the standard fluid. Yeah I your chances of getting sick and showing what? You'll nece scintillating series a much higher with influenza that if we now sixties seventies. You wouldn't stop to worry if you're a base rock don't WanNa be old you don't WanNa be base and you don't WanNa have pre existing comb abilities but apart from that pretty. They're on and in. The chat. Says was a dime. Think keeping up with the latest research of red a lot like the antibody tests that they're doing suggests that for every confirmed case is somewhere between fifty and eighty five non confirmed cases. Yeah so the pain so an ice seem to matic that they haven't even presented themselves the hospital and aspartame but I've just had it got over right. Even an ally grew significantly higher. Now there's been two people in Australia and in their fifties and two people one person in Australia. Die In the forties. What's going on in the thirties now? In their twenties and a significant amount of people are actually. If you look at the infection cohorts lot of twenty year olds. They wreck is the cohort where they have the most infections knowing that. You're in Australia in New York would you? Would you still say the same thing? Yeah back my immune system run. I've covered non aimed before influenza like that. Maude drama would be that. I'd have to put myself into quarantine for two weeks which are absolutely height. Wouldn't wouldn't be. I wouldn't be concerned about dawn at all rose That's an interesting to look at the statistics. Somebody else can look at it and say some people climbing the statistics are all rubbish. Anyway because there are so many symptomatic carriers of the virus. Anyway I can't possibly really get an accurate number just getting back to the VEX vaccines and footballs and now for for C. ability of And when we're talking about previously twelve mandated that they sort of anti vaccine. Andy Vexes who very vocal and the question is being. Well how many people could I really In the risk of stopping that free speech allied by the team. Well what free speech and I think. The benefit of free speech outweighs the potential harm that may arise from that that information. What if you in Samoa and the dive haven't I ran? The jury to their attitudes have changed in Samoa. Nearly ninety percent of eligible people have been vaccinated against measles as it lifted a two day curfew imposed amid an outbreak that killed sixty five people. Love them children. I think this was last. Today's nineteen side basically. They had a real problem with anti vaccine. Prominent and convincing huge numbers of Somalians not to be vaccinated and sixty five people died of maizels said twelve main. Maybe you would allow exa. Measles sort of person to operate in Australia but not in a small colony country is I would. I would not gag them anyway. Don't even Simone. I would really really up a counterargument. Y- off for the next two hundred years. They culture will get you get people down the slid putting up counterargument. Samoa and I had no These people are convinced. They've learned the hard way and it's possibly a lesson that they had to learn the hard way to be honest so they might a government order and I had to shut this guy by charging him with incitement against a government order. Like pull if you've got a community in that situation can't be convinced because the snake oil salesman is going you would honestly let him run rampant. You wouldn't stop you in a in that situation serious again. Yeah seriously I think. Three hundred full of free speech is was defending and. I run the risk of Beth. Huddling your community but we had the initial discovery. It'd be at the once you make an exception for one thing. Yeah you'RE GONNA make exceptions for so many other things and then what happens to free speech? It's gone okay. Earlier on we had the lead up of the principles of Tom and the principles of Negligent it's a trap and the principle of benefit night but we agreed at that point that if harm was foreseeable and that was the tricky part was half. Acea believes it. But this sort of situation of Samoa. Sixty five kids dying of measles and that that you could Si- we've got a real problem and we have to stop it because there's no guesswork here. We have a crisis in front of us. We have to stop the scar breaking. I would say that all three of US sitting here in this prosperous Liberal Democracy. We call the strategy. Ah Very very largely due to the principle of free speech. That's a lot of benefit. Now do you sort of say no. We'll do without all the benefit that comes with the free exchange of ideas which is what free speeches and we'll just live in our backward in a retired socially retarded way because you might lose condo. These free speech is they might. They might talk about things that are harmful listed any number of instances that you happy with the CA tilman of free speech because yes and now you've just gone onto a hardline. Free speech is everything and I didn't care about the harm. Bit Odd fifty. We were listening of number of occasions where we said. Yep that's a good idea so I don't get it and unprepared to cut you what you might say some slack. Say you know in a help me in Australia. We've got enough information and the risks. Cy that might be. We'll let the vexes do their thing never going. He couldn't look at this amount example inside. We have to stop me because there's no doubt that significant number of people are going to suffer significant time. People have always suffered from bad information. We know that's true and we have always could tile them not always in many times. We have Qatada but society as a whole and humanities hall has benefited immeasurably from free speech from the free exchange of ideas. So if say well we'll only KC free speech when we know there's GonNa be some. How where do you stop? Because it's subject so subjective. There's nothing should talk to the about the measles outbreak in Samoa. There's nothing S- addictive a bad sign. That's really shitty advisor. Timing people. Stop should advice I agree. It's objectively. Always think that the benefit from Samoa without incident is that the culture and some our will change now to a culture where the average citizen doesn't tycoon. Voss off anyone who's not qualified to give it. That's that's a good position for them to be in now like not just medical invoice but all sorts of advice start with will it because a lot of these people would have been subjected to the vaccine. Paps must against they will. It seems like saying I mean it was a government had decided we've got to crack down and get people vaccinated air and yes more rating on. Those articles was different in that people weren't forced. They went being held down and jabbed with an actually putting a hand up and saying. Oh I don't WanNA end up like my cousin Jimmy. I hear it is. I've got the line so not has declared a state of emergency and made vaccinations compulsory. That's what they had to do. A mandatory immunization campaign yeah tripled Samoa's coverage with a still people objecting to being injected the fact they had to make it compulsory suggests that yes they had to do. But look you know. We've seen mass immunization programs in many countries around the world in the last fifty years or so most people when you explain to them the benefits they they do it voluntarily. You don't have to force them but this group your head to old they may be a special group but maybe they just haven't been set hold so if you're in charge of Samoa you wouldn't. I was the king. You would've Let the vaccine continue to propagate is the question is how do you stop someone from propagating? Disinformation you will you pass a law and use it as I'd in this guy's He was charged with incitement against government. Order was here Edwin Tomorrow Local Mississippi Edwin Tamasese was the church later or something or possibly now strong suspicion. Us 'cause ninety like you could possibly Stopping working that sort of advising to we sermons and broadcasting it on a radio program. Lorena news pipe that he might be the editor of but you wouldn't be able to stop him from having one on one conversations with paypal which you couldn't you couldn't legislate against that. If he was cool he could. The difficulty is catch. Him is in Us quote you could just get somebody to follow him around everywhere and every time he starts talking about. Vaccinations Bad. Have somebody WHO's properly informed. They're saying hang on a minute because the drowsy new counter to is if if if the if big brother comes in and starts enforcing speech on these people then it just goes underground and that adds to the conspiracy doesn't it. It's lock. Look you know the government's making do it lock We we don't have a choice and it adds to the case must be suspicious of all kinds of things might or might more suspicious of the vaccines if the government is too heavy handed with it. So it's a real. It's a real balancing act. I think Identity balancing to be done graphic tendencies are coming out over the Patriots. Thank you sean. Genucel cry John Land in Hod. Bottom Landon hasn't hit from you. I just WANNA know how you're handling this pandemic land and you can get some recording gear adding wherever you are shortly of Tom. Their hands to also why not Jahmai. Alison Steve is tiny. Will Jimmy Spud Kinda Brahman Band match? I wouldn't be Palo medic. Main Dominic Democracy Liam McMahon diverse Allen. Daniel couldn't Harry Watson Peter Gillespie Kept and doomsday us. Some good messages during the week. Good luck in a bunker. Dead kept to. Actually his message was we. Were talking about shutting off your phone for took the APP in whether you should have the APP and I said well already exposed in any number of lies with my find the world and so if I was really concerned about privacy I'll have to get rid of all those and we said it would be quite difficult. Do you know I came across comment on spoil it. Yeah did you read that on that? Jodi Willett Yeah. You're yes cannot read a bit of element because it was a very good point. Yeah very good and I was I was just like wow get if you listening Jr He let me just find it. I talk about something else while a fund that win I can. I'll keep the patrons volume while you're doing. That kept them. Do we watch Andy Dowling Murray. Wipe Melinda at impressed. Professor dentist will my brother. Glen Bell is currently in hospital suffering a minor stroke. Glenn is on Road to recovery cry. Matthew Alexander Alan Pool wipe at Tom. Dolan Tarot Camille Kim Brune Donnie. Darko Clinton Riggs. Kevin is tiny ails yet. Another fan speaking of which I've ordered Pinkas book about the first one. I've got the one one bad violence on like it. I was like I'm not gonNA disagree with you. Bet Violence Angels. Yeah because I kind of less violent because he makes more points than just. There's less violence more. The book wrote the other one which is the world's wonderful and poverty is declining. And that's the one I really was about the future. Yeah that's because everything's going to be built. My Bill Gates is going. That's the one on kind to determine part. This was not to say that a good open mind into the rating. This is on wasn't can. I just got a different way of putting his two trevor. You've got the you've got covered site apricot Ni- because it in school. I put it on in the dial I put it on. I was at and a bat in my battery ran flat two times like it really although I find I find five or something and it just it just drying the battery in in in it off so I had to take it off. The APP was drawing to do that on all off within within an hour and I couldn't recharge it. I was running around with a fine but you you recommend that people in it I was sighing. Why not because you can always delete it yup prophecy so if you'll find a didn't drain the battery it you'd still have it on. Your fine is still active. Yeah would yes I if you got a message if say that happened and you had you? You've you've had it on you find for the last two weeks and you're gonNA miss each at the end of the podcast sign. You've been next to somebody. He's had covered. Nineteen Self Quarantine yourself now for the next two weeks. 'cause I've been next to somebody for fifteen minutes Within one point five meters I can't. He's what would they wouldn't send the message that that would actually ring me and talk to me that that's the sign condition and they said you've just out of the rule is that you've got a quarantine yourself next to it but if somebody with somebody for fifteen minutes now at it might be a false positive of which. That's Mike Yeah going into going into a public bathroom and the Toilet Staw. Lean another business in minutes. I can tell you you constipated. Let's let's let's just say you're you're pretty confident that you've not been within one point four meters of WanNa but they're going to ring me and they're going GonNa say you're in a line at at Like they're going to say a time in a diet and they're going to say you're in with this person in contact yet and here you've got to be in quarantine now. Would you accept that and go? And then the day off to the quarantine ends you get another call Nice. Al Sorry Trevor. But we've just got another indication you've been in close contact with someone who tests positive another fourteen days might well. It's possible it that's like and then you get a third. The government's tied me a lot of money in recent times. Fair compensation showed if you've got a business that you need to. Will you asking me and what I would do? Yeah Yeah and that's honest. Answer is on my. That's that's just a scenario aware of lock the self And you might not like defendant possible repeatedly feel like actually being in contact with someone with will active cases in Queensland It's just a possibility. Trevor well you are the one who all through this podcast talks about the lie possibility of harm to people and I didn't like the at and and we've got like a twelve in in three million chains that you that you could see somebody line fifteen minutes of contact but this person a very good argument why she didn't sign. It was the argument. You just put that. He might be actually. But that's that's supposed to work in. The chances are so small. Apparently she lives in Tasmania and there was an outbreak in kid. Villi June nursing home has Mina and I put a forget the figures but it was something like five thousand people into self quarantaine because of good tracing contain of had covered five thousand year recommend. That's good really five. Thousand people having their lives tidally disrupted for two weeks. Sit in Sydney time and watch Netflix. Oh yeah that's another problem of the government's GonNa give you couldn't do that like that. That's torture for my like the people saying this is great cinema button. Watch Netflix two weeks. That's not appealing to me at all and appeal projecting your values onto everyone else. Like you've got these nice comfortable hyme You're sitting at home twiddling your thumbs and watching. Netflix. That one minute privileged position like someone like me who has like freedom at the top of the yearning hierarchy. That's just torture is torture for me. Yeah well in Cleveland your chances would be signed. Larry Relax Numbers now whereas person was objecting who had very I think very sound reasons for not downloading the APP because because there's a high probability that she might come into contact with someone or get a false positive trailer and there are false positives. I come into contact with person. We've just discovered the person didn't have it. You're a car you don't need to being quarantine now. That's not how it works though. Is it turn you wouldn't it? They've run you up and I've said you're in a queue with Joe Blogs and he's got carnivores and then three days later they find yet jibe looks doesn't have Khurana Vars they ring up the people inside. Nice good news. What about all those people who arrived for Toronto virus when he was in contact with us? But you said a false positive. What about all those people who arrived from overseas also lassie's contact were bused to hotels and even though they didn't test positive for the virus they were put into hotels for four days. Falcons tolls Paul's talking about false positive in terms of the contact. Not Funny was faulty. Yeah it's Bluetooth like what's your experience with small as being good it's not it's not the most accurate form of technology. Pluto's where are my computer to it'd be signed to the way to this. Fifteen minutes of contact happen. Tell me way But they don't have to justify their downloaded the APP. You've signed up to the on the terms and conditions that don't have trust in order they can order you to go into quarantine for four. But they're gonNA tell you because they need to know who were you with mine. Have the APP. They're gonNA ring you and INCI. You had the APP an you there for fifteen minutes with your partner with you at the time so and you can decide. We'll wait. Was it when what dight. What time I was at such and such applies. Actually I went into that. Shell for five minutes. There's no wire could be saying. Do you think they're gonNA say oh. Let's all right then so if if you had the APP and Mrs Fist didn't yes you were in contact with somebody you've come home. You're possibly infected. She would have to go into quarantine to it. Should be a mutual decision of a couple. If one it's wanting all in yes well mrs his decision. Everything is Mrs Fist decision. Let me finish it. The patrons we we get the Get another pink fain was the last one gram Hannigan Nick. Mark clock citizens. Six David Coupley Lloyd. The Twelfth Main Fan Lloyd big F parked any howls in the twelfth Maine's arguments have reached. Can YOU BE LLOYD? The Iron Fist fame. Now what? Surely surely I've taken some of the shine off but anyway Andrew Jackson Davidge tra- shine shine. Ingram these people of saying no one's GONNA call now had been since March which would have been nineteen times. David Cox Shining Grim credible Kobe. Lb heats little shy shy. Who Do the interview? Thank you for the interview last week. That was fun. Stephen Twigg out Yvonne Panizzi David Hamby in our wine and people who are patrons outside of Pie trion Dean. Ken was like he was the beneficiary. Mister Hinson Korean met Madman Beverly Bossy in raid diamond from redland digital wine salmon. Shared Terry Obrad Pasquale Ricca and Darren Giddens. Thank you all of those patrons actually. Did a bit of a tally up of. Oh my expenses and I spent a Shitload on the web saw discovered actually quite a big website. There's a lot of information on the into keep going quick on the Super Deluxe of planes quite expensive in the MP. Three file has to be held somewhere in. I've got subscriptions with Neil Times and the guy even crikey and the stridency the morning herald mile and zoom APP and is is the feeder and a few other things are the tab on the web sought to that allows listeners to become sponsors. To isn't there. There is to be sponsor you can. You can click on that and look. I can become a piece actually wine I sent me. Bsa and gave me some money to say good for these for the little while. But thank you to the DEA patrons especially those in the dock Kevin Nineteen Times of reached into their pocket and decide to help support humble podcast. I wonder if any of the sponsorship money is coming out of anyone's job caper or job seeker allowed. Yes so we be thanking scum out as well as well I. Reckon that's Geez upturn yeah forty versus missiles. I was going to stick the most the cafe going why not so. I went to my local cafe two days ago and the new rules on that you can have ten people in the cafe so they've got a system where you this ten sticks in a bucket and to be able to sit down and enjoy your coffee you have to register your name and you'll find number and get a stick and have the stick on your table but I thought it was interesting that The the the rules for Appearing coins anyway. So since the government rule Have a limit. I'm not quite sure whether it's a requirement that have to give your name and find number to be able to sit down and enjoy your meal or your coffee or whatever. I thought that was a bit of an intrusion of it. Sounds like Ross? Because you don't normally expect to be Ashfield name and phone number when you go into a cafe and bar coffee do so wondering what other people's experiences are with that whether they I imagine that some people who have turn around stormed out because of privacy in I would be a little bit confronted by that thought. Yeah Spike to my Barista this morning. And he said it's It's regulated. They've they've been asked to do it. and the intention is that if there is an infection related back to the store that I can contact everyone. That was there that die and let them know. But See. That doesn't necessarily mean people go into quarantine dime think. Yeah but you know the intentions of good but it conned of of steps the Makalu. I think in terms of privacy I found very confronting a photo and it may have been just a photo of concrete blocks across the roadway allegedly muscle between Queensland and New South Wales now que- I dare say a lot of our listeners. Living New South Wales Victoria which did not closed the borders as guys up here in Queensland in the Banana Republic of Queensland L. Premium Country. Yeah has has publicly stated she may not open the borders until September September. That's an outrageous. Enjoy deprivations right to liberty in this country when we have twelve active cases. Twelve cases and concrete blocks. We've had to in the last fortnight outrageous. So what do our southern listeners? Think of that. So did you feel a sign when they first instituted the state voice? Yeah I was annoyed I have to say. I don't think I in the Mon state of Australia where our actual states are really just administrative areas out. They they're not like separate little country back to colonial Tangerine states. I think we'd be better off the states although to be fair I think some people say we're over governed. I think having lots of government is actually healthy because it sort of diffuses power. The point site borders causing a good thing. You see in when it first happened. We didn't know what we're dealing with. So you kind of had tyke. Yeah are very cautious approach. Because you wouldn't just didn't know what was happening with fish. This virus inhale hell. It was moving and really a case where you crack down hard and then see what you've dealing with and then you can decide what to do but when I've done that before. How many cases are in Yussef wiles active to lot more than Queensland? Yeah so it seems that the still community transmission happening in New South Wales which we don't have here us. Think the state that's performing. The worst in terms of infection is Victoria Ron and they have the most stringent lockdown. Yeah the premier bidding on lockdown year. But that's can necessarily infected like you were talking about super sale super spreaders and there was that guy who was a delivery driver visiting McDonnell's doors so he like closed in twelve mcdon- stores. Because the say you get unlucky as well even with the best of intentions super spreader just hits you and kind of threes Patterns in that sort of you can't work out if you have a discount. Lucky with the superdome What about Bob Catez audio shutting causing the North Queensland would you have supported that in the early stages of the pandemic there were negligible cases in North Queensland? And he was saying well. If you're shutting the border with New South Wales let's throw a arbitrary border across the above the opinion someway somewhere between Rockhampton and gladstone. And he would you supported that And the expense that that would have taken to have police on all of those checkpoints checking people and and do you know what doesn't have another. You drawing rough lines to try control the population. I mean if there's an outbreak in the gap if there's some at break at the school the lack of shops and people in the gap. You're a special case. Now you have to do these extra things because you're in the gap. I can understand that the other problem I have is the way that the lockdown has been enforced. Apparently in Sweden people were encouraged to practice Social Disney distancing and they're encouraged to wash their hands more and things like that and they did. They did it voluntarily. I don't see why that wouldn't work as well in his job. Pretty Pretty felts. Yeah pretty mature usually do the right thing and yet in Victoria. I saw a figure tonight was what was it. Six million dollars or with the funds have been handed out in the last six weeks so that would mean that people went doing the right thing. Yes but it should. It doesn't county around. Yes but a lot of the cases as well were pretty sort of challengeable and some people did charge them and the funds were revoked. I just think the government has taken Mandarin. I think the government is taking the wrong approach rather than treat us like adults who can be trusted. Of course I'll always be a few that won't compliant. They should've treated us like responsible adults and said please. This is what you need to do to stay safe. I think most people would have done But instead it's data that shows that people were going in locking down before the rules yet even come into play throw nice countries. I really object some people the right thing and some people wouldn't and so people would it. Mike if you guide to do the right thing anyway by then whether there's a lower not makes no difference to you if you were going to do the wrong thing the fact that there's a law makes you do the right. Yes but people who were not doing anything that was outside the normal parameters of daily life were issued fons for in a park for being away from home. This is ridiculous well short but there were plenty. Who doing the wrong thing. You show plenty. Will he just said there? Were six million dollars worth of fines is that I would doing the wrong thing that means the lead is very active with five books. Well what's the question? The question is don't you think the government should have known managed differently? Now I'm trusted people now. You're can't trust people I'll come on now. You can't the people you want to do the right thing. It was no problem not going to be fine. I was never worried about being fun doing the right thing because a friend wanted to meet refer coffee in a park one morning and I suggest a park and he said No. I won't go there. The COPS might come Roy two guys sitting at a park drinking coffee and he was nervous about doing that because he thought we might be fined. Run Cave in the chat room says Swedes have three hundred and forty. Three deaths million. We have four Suedes about middle of the pack in terms of death. But how did they count them because they were counting a lot of people that PAPP's the UK's wins Italy's worse there on a par with nestled? Do in bill but that seems to be a why biggest figure even allowing for some accounting discrepancies. Three hundred forty three four. Doesn't that sound like? Yeah so then you would compare Sweden. You would compare saieed Denmark to know why Ron elving hanging a second. Wear an argument. We always saying we should have done. What Sweden in Dot Net? You're going to all well. If we wouldn't have had the deaths per capita that Sweden wrought and also would he hadn't got the sign border situation because of lots of different variables right and Darden Sweden Dog Chaz in old people's homes. They apparently they didn't really protect them. Very effectively at all. And that's why they had whole rush of old people in Sweden because Someone that didn't take the time what had happened here. Well what they're saying is the people would have probably died eventually anyway. Wins breads through the population. That would have done a little bit sooner. A little bit lyda but they probably would have died anyway but the point is trying to. Mike is that Denmark's deaths per capita is double that of Noah is so what of Din mocked on in whatever the general mocking have done the same things Roy. Essentially Dina what's your explanation will. It's just again. It's like what you're saying about Victoria. It's just block. I'm guessing gun SIP spreading cells like but if we could sweeten than it would have gone. I- chimes a little bit quicker. Perhaps quick at it hasn't gone through them except for just two or three independent. You old people's homes where they've had clusters but not every I mean let's face it virtually untouched but we won't percentage that have happened in Educa- facilities in Australia. Look the point is one hundred deaths. We probably wouldn't have had famous. I've come from K. Facility with voluntary off to Mike is between us and New Zealand. New Zealand's deaths per capita is horrified than Roman yet die locked down much harder and they first death occurred a month a full month after first death so locked down early. They locked down hard. We've got thirty much the same population density the same culture cha and there's is worse than house but as four million. What says there's like four and a half or something but when you say this we're in the bullpen. That just allows for statistical. Anomaly when you've been there there are additional lockdown didn't have a significant effect. In other words. There was no net benefit from locking down hod wrought but I- back to Sweden and Australia. You Dine Saif. We had followed Sweden that pretty much we had. We would have lost thousands in nursing homes thoroughly now. Loving should should've not wouldn't leave. I'm not saying we should have followed Sweden negligence with their all people's homes and even people in Sweden saying their death. Toll would have been lower if they'd taken the proper precautions to protect old people but like everybody around the world. It was a big game new immigrant community as well as right. But if we have encouraged sensible measures for individuals sensible social distancing hand washing all those things not touching and protected the vulnerable and protected the vulnerable. We probably would have ended up with the same number of deaths. I think well and without destroying the economy and the Sweden's dissuades haven't destroyed their economy. That's the difference. Cut It to lot better. The now's Oh yeah. The factories with other countries whose economies have turned to pop. So I think that's the biggest impact they've had on. The air is that they trading partners economies of stuffed as a result are too well. I mean he's the question. How much is a life worth a million dollars technically cash fourteen trillion dollars? That's going to be two hundred thousand dollars per life year. This is a link to an article which basically looked at how much government spans in order to save lives and sort of came up with a figure but I couldn't say the workings on. Db's figure John in the chat room says your number two not trip. I am John and any loves it. He's secretly leaking slip. Theory loves well. Look fifty. Six Baroness podcast to give you an AR. They will get from us for the price of one. Yeah so much going on want. These are massive sort of these thinkable things a year ago the thought of Shutting Dan Country Shutting down the border. I'll tell you what year ago the thought of Scotty for marketing. Being Prime Minister I. That's that was unthinkable. World has changed so much SI- quickly. It is very interesting. Talk sort of the anniversary. Isn't it a surprise we yesterday think sign or to those who stayed in the chat? Rain is the looks good on you. Who are watching. Thanks for staying with us. Thanks for all your comments. Sorry if we didn't get to all of them but much appreciated. Oh I had a final you keep harping on about Murdoch to me. That he stop. You're not going to Americans to an American citizen for you know why hasn't the Australian government ruled him out of owning L. media or not when he went when he took up American citizenship in order to buy American assets he had to get rid some trillion? Now I want to know why if ou- senators with dual citizenship cannot sit in the Senate. Why do allow them with Jill citizenship to earn a media empire in Australia? Who has more pal a senator media bear section forty four is stupid part of the Constitution. Anyway Mike who is what will actually I think it's not a bad provisions sell. I'd understand while we have this loyalty. We shouldn't have dual citizenship. We should be saying. Do you want to try and give up your out of pocket choose. Yes do you want to be Australia? And you want to be something. We shouldn't deal citizens but at the same time. Don't you think I'm making a fair case? Why Murdoch shouldn't a meteoroid empire it's solid case? Let's Sinai foreigners should I am media. I think so. He had to sell some when he kinda Farner list should have solved a lot. He is now effectively. A foreigner owning a very influential media empire in this country. Think let's get him. Shall we start on? The worst part is in the East or West parties of these Murdoch. What is that problem? Whatever if he was an Australian. I don't have a problem with it. Well if he's Australian and he's spooking the sort of policies that he expects net. It wouldn't be any better so it's just it's not the biggest problem is far. It's it's the agenda that he has no problem if he was just an Australian. At least we would know that his loyalty laws with Australia. More or less probably would whereas with the is it a foreign citizen Paul. He's went to war with America's just because you think Murdoch would fought with the American multi billionaire with properties. All over the world happens to have an Australian passport. You feel comfortable in the he's loyalties with rallies all agree with you. We shouldn't have jill citizenships right. Sign off on this podcast with Dr. Outta here. Thanks very much. We'll see you next week. So yeah thanks listeners. Hope you enjoyed the episode glove. Hod bottom here will you to Pinky left. A communist hippies have really crossed the line this time and I can't allow railing against the free speech of an anti vaccine just because he wants to save the public purse the expense vaccinating little gyms. I mean children. Well thought about your free speech. It may well be preventing Catholics from entering the glory of Heaven and Spending Eternity Worshiping God sitting around on clouds and playing hops. If the Muslims won't they are virgins? Let 'em have virgins if the Buddhists won't spin the wheel again well spin spin away if Ganesh is hungry. Let Meat Lamb. I Say I'm going to stop you Cheryl Cole. The Pope Fist Glove. You HAVE NOT EXPERIENCED. Hora unto you have experienced the full weight of a hard bottom crushing you.

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Episode 234  Bush Fires and Media Bias

The Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove

1:54:55 hr | 9 months ago

Episode 234 Bush Fires and Media Bias

"Suburban Eastern Australia an environment that has the time evolved some extraordinarily the unique groups of Hamas. Happy Hours but today we observe a small tribe akin to a group of mic that gathered together the atop a small mound to watch question and discuss the current events of their city their country and their weld at large arch. Let's listen keenly observed this group fondly known the Iron Fist and the velvet glove. Yes congratulations not licensed dealer listeners. Somehow you've stumbled upon a little podcast way back from a break. This is the artist Velvet Glove podcast. We stunning New Year. Twenty twenty and this is a podcast where we talk about news and politics six and religion. We look at what's going on in the world. We try to explain we give our opinions and try to win a little bit of knowledge and learn a few things along the white mice important link and it feels great to be back behind the microphone. I of course him. Trevor Theon feast with me nearly as allies mccloud. Can I get I get. I listened and with me as long as the twelve men you know everyone. Is We just three guys. Sitting around some microphones grooming my house in Brisbane and we talk about. What's what's going on in Australia? And around. The world in plenty has happened since we last spike and of course. We're pretty much. Most of Australia. Seem designed for the last one former Bush fires around side of it. So we're GONNA talk about Bush and what the government in particular Gomo has done or not done about pause some maybe. He's coming for some fair criticism. Maybe some of it a little harsh for far listeners. Big Out current Prime Minister Um so talk about him. We're GONNA talk about fireworks display because that came up as to whether we cancelled ended. We're GONNA discuss the ethical and moral dilemma of whether firewood should get along during a fire crisis and I'm going to convene. Td Listener that they should saying stick around for that. We're going to talk about Barnaby Joyce media boss. We might mention The Zealand volcano incident about at that last year. We did an interesting twist on insurance and local premier and of course we'll talk a little bit about trump impeachment in Iran. So that's ahead of us and hello to Ross in weight watcher. Who are already in a chat room? If you're in the chat room watching US live makes them come inside. Say Hello. That's good and join in. So Roy. So look chains on this podcast. We might have some new international national listeners because I was interviewed on something and it's due to coming out soon and as a result some people might be listening so and because it sort of twenty twenty in the start of a newly before we normally deal this now we would launch straight into the topics like MICA rant. Much notice Tom we'll do a little bit of mucking around just to introduce ourselves so in case she had noticed before so entre. I'm a white SIS. Gender Perspective lawyer living in a mcmansions with a ten school wood-fired the Pizza Robin in the western suburbs trevor. So I naturally represent the working class the working class the Scott. He's what SIS gendered Private School Educated Canton and former member the former member of the Liberal Party with the liberal because e identifies as homosexual the closest thing we have depending representative of an oppressed confusing Scott and also Paul. I'm a genuine cloud football pools. The white sister ended mile bike riding English teacher who is currently looking for love for love objects to my description of Libertarian Carrion embraces his role as a contrarian because the oldest he gets to represent the boomers and maybe it's not d listener. We're going to get you through twenty twenty funny things planned for this podcast. And he told you guys haven't told you let's get to it eventually. We'll hold it in for a little bit lighter. We'll we'll talk breath just before we move on as well in case you are new to the podcast and you're wondering who are these guys really qualified to talk about. What's going on in the world I went on? It's probably just as qualified as Elon John's but I would have thought more qualified. I asked a friend for for referencing. Lift an audio message for saga. I called up my friend Ricky device this is what he said about us. Hasn't been a reference. You're in no position to lecture the public about anything. You know nothing nothing about again. That's what he thought to be true. That ricky is he's got a wise head on his shoulders. There's probably a bit fair anyway. What's going on there? You hear noise dive it. It is playing a game plan you can attend boy. Is that coming three coming from becoming from you'll compete L.. Sorry Yeah you turn that off fixed fixed guy right. We've got through that a little bit of theme of this episode because we're going to talk about the Bush is I will say just a theme for the year I think is we've got to be aware of hidden agendas when we're reading stuff because this podcast is basically diced us finding articles news items and discussing what's going on so we relying on information from other people and on it's been a hobby hosted mine to talk oh combat whereas stuff coming from so. That's sort of part of the whole bushfire story that we're going to talk about in this episode parties is who's telling the story what's auto getting where where does the truth lie and often part of that it means who's writing the story. Do they have an agenda is it is important to them for some agenda ebbing tide that they run a particular line ave are they completely unbiased or not. Because it's a sign much in the media that we need to acknowledge it and just sort of see what what what what happens as a result because d listener thanks to you and your patronage subscribed to a whole range of different media outlets from the Australian through the Guardian the curium mile. Lift right in the middle. Do you consider any of them. Unbiased Ni- and that's the whole point is h is in some more than others and you really. I'm sometimes I'm shot. But but sometimes I'm not as to just the complete difference in the story honestly in the Middle Hall Bush Philosophy Aska with Scott Morrison and he's behavior depending on the knees. He's Atlit reading from on the one hand. He's a complete idiot. He's bringing the country to rack and ruin and on the other hand the other stories that he's actually just they might have made a little mistake here or there but he's back on board and things are going well. He's doing your job. It's different depending on what you're reading so so you don't WanNa get across the people. Is that GONNA find out. Who's writing these articles? What's their agenda? If they have one treat people like a used a used car salesman until they earn your trust. I mean if a used car salesman says to you. It's a great car. You'll love it. You'd be wary because you say I. Clearly he wants a commission Sil- he's going to tell me a story I'll take everything he says when the grind assault well every Tony read an article. Do you have to. They can comparable because journalists generally I mean they they either work for a salary or they work per awesome that produced anti. Okay let's so so freelance journalists. Well if you're submitting your piece to a right wing paper you'll rot with a right-wing slant if you want it published and you WanNa Pied if you're submitting to a left-wing the same applies if you are not freelance and you'll working for a piper then you're not gonNA get published or have problems with your superior if you write something that goes against the grind of the ethos of that pipe. DOC If you're in the working for the Murdoch papers You can have a long career success successful if you run the wrong stuff. I'm just not convinced that you can divide the media into rotten left very well. You could do it as pro or anti sky on this whole bushfire thing when you call that Rod left this definitely different things and pro anti sky when he's what about the foreign media because I've been reporting on the bush fires as well so I don't think they necessarily have any skin in the game. In which case do you think they. They're what you've save. It does appear to be relatively neutral. I haven't read a lot of at the foreign coverage to be honest. I don't know I would Mike Accommodation. I would expect them to be relatively neutral because they have nice skin and the guy th there was one one the BBC. I think what was it. The BBC or British Independent Channel interviewed one of our backbenches and they tore apart talked. Craig Kelly is Morgan. Interviewed Him. So how do you talk. Peace mortgage traditionally. He's a right. Lina is a believes conservative usable. I'm also uncomfortable with this idea that conservatives the role right wins I don't equate conservatism. Service and with weirdness necessarily some conservatives might might be right-wing might have big heavy right wing but I I don't think all conservatives are necessarily right wing I think some conservatives tend to be closer to classical liberal taught then rightly libertarian. Aryan not necessarily libertarian and classical liberal. Anyway let's discuss and see where we end up because really with the Bush across crosses and what's going on. I'm assuming most of our listeners in Australia. Car Up to speed with a lot of done with a lot of the detail but it's been relentless the coverage As you'd expect considering the extent of it yeah I mean. This is on the January in the. They're talking about a fire season. That really should be picking up to this sort of level by at the end of January early February. It's early January now and this started before Christmas. So if you're reading the USTRALIAN or the curry mile or other Murdoch papers. Here's the story that you're hearing that we have bush fires all the time. This is different or if it is now one could have predicted. It would happen or if I could now on could predict when it would happen. That Morrison took a holiday. Anyone needs a holiday. He can't be expected to hold. Those other. People are employed to do these things once it got really bad. He came back and he started sorting things out in the filed handshakes clumsy but he was trying to console these people people and that would todd and upset and he didn't take it personally. He's a good guy that way He's provided lots of extra money and got the Defense Force involved and will be holding getting close to what happened. And how did he better in the future. He had to produce government. Add to explain. What's being done says to calm? Australians and also to overcome the a negative left-wing media misleading Quad Stalin's if the Latte sipping grains had called fires for Hazard Reduction BEF- AUSE ause would not have been so bad ultimately fighting fires in its funding. It's a state government issue. It's not in the federal government's wheelhouse also. These leased is. There's lots of crazy arsonists which is adding to the problem. Sure the climate is changing. Ultimately Australia produces a very small amount of title greenhouse gas compared to Indochina and even if reduced emissions to zero it would not affect climate change and would not have prevented this fire. It's an Australian to blind sky for something he couldn't control. It's an astrologer criticizing efforts of brive forces. That is the story you get from the Murdoch media so I think trevor not come across any criticism of the firefighters Ni- criticizing the and probably three that last one is an extra. But that's the kind of thing that you would get from that side. You're saying that the Murdoch's publications are only good for lighting barbecue pretty much so of course my facebook fade is full of the left wing stuff and I was was just crammed with what an idiot Sky Moe's particularly when the handshake stuff happened in the clumsy. If you're listening from overseas and you not aware of essentially essentially sky mow came back to stray from these Hawaiian holiday when out into the field to get some pictures or video footage of him. Meeting and greeting looking sympathetic prophetic went up to a pregnant woman and she did not hold out and he held add. He's she kept it by aside and he she said. I don't want to hold your hand unless you promise more money for the firefighters and he reached down grabbed her hand and forcibly shook it that she didn't want and then when she started complaining he quickly he dropped. It walked away and turned his back on. That was the root beer and one of these other minders manhandled and told her shoes in short. Todd Mitre is at another shed where far Fatah's existed sitting down and guys too but he's Andy Out. The Far Fatah does not respond respond. And he says I don't WanNa shake and just down anyway grabbed his hand and shakes his hand and Megani clearly. Didn't want to be checking in and and scammers skunks off again. It was the most cringe-worthy scene. It's the most awful. It was terrible terrible. I was listening to grumpy hacks before I can't have heater not there. I can't remember the couple journalists that just get together and do this sort of podcast once awake and both of them said day. Remember The Ash Wednesday fires when Malcolm Fraser was prime minister. And and they remember Bob Hawke over the Newcastle Earthquake and they also remember John Herod over the killings in Port Autho and he said ETA those three examples not one of them put a foot wrong but he said Wisconsin. You could write the book on what he's done enroll in his way. He's handled this whole bushfire across. It's been appalling and normally I crisis is good for politician. Normally a flood allowed or a hurricane. You can turn up. You can look concerned you can promise them emergency funding and everybody thinks you're a great guy but his problem is is that everyone is what Rodley making connections to climate change in his government's pose that are totally against doing anything of any meaning and sighing. Well what you're doing is just going to cause more and more of this to happen and so he's he's connected to this disaster whereas ordinarily with a Sigh Klein or a flood the politicians on connected with causing in the first place. I that's I think it's a little bit. It's a little bit cruel to blind Sky Marshal Foch climate change. Climate change has been building it. Since the dawn of the point of the burning of con- you can't hold him personally responsible not at the fact that he's been sitting on his hands doing nothing for for for years party been sitting on their hands for years when they they could have been putting into place at least a decent energy policy. ooh ooh which I haven't done at all so I told you the story that you'd read in the strain on the Murdoch press but if you're reading the Guardian or the ABC or other left-wing media media the story. You're getting be something like this. Fire is really bad. It could have been predicted. It was predicted and the government was is tall to prepare for a catastrophe in did nothing. It was suggested that exhorted firefighters had been spending weeks. Fighting fires should be financially initially compensated and sky said now that I enjoyed being out and then he backtracked on that on the twelfth of December sky my declared it was a natural natural a national disaster three days later. He went on a holiday Hawaiian so the country was now being led by Deputy Prime Minister Michael McCormack who had weeks earlier. dismissed concerns about the links between climate change as quote the writings of some pure in Latin than what capital city greenies. After two firefighters died sky mile politics. We're taking your holiday. said he'd come back he's still took to is to come back after saying sorry. Sorry I'll be back still. Can I know it took him to. It is to come back but they might not have been available seats on the commission that he was flying. Did he fly commercial. He Played Commissioner Taniwha. A mentioned about the hand business he yeah subsequently ordered the arm reserve to get involved in incredibly the well. He didn't tell the Emergency Services Commissioner Fitzsimmons and Fitzsimmons. Said I knew about it was when you read it in the media. So he's got three he has an army reserve is leaning on his doorstep. He wasn't told about it wasn't consulted. By sky and scammers is how stick is a consulting with our stakeholders was working closely with their partners. Willie Izing with Al Response Teams all his bushy terminology and meanwhile he's just in some room but his mind is going. What's the next thing I should do? All just announced season could bomb puts it out. There is in three thousand reserve is into the fire front. The guy that's in charge of the fraud front didn't either coming and he didn't know what to do with them so desperate. Damage control to deflect attention from. He tried to spin a story that the new South Wales government had refused Defense Force assistance assistance. He authorized cheesy government television ad to paint a picture. He was in control and spending lots of money. Doing lots of coordinating when in reality the opposite so this is true. And he's doing things that really should have been done. Six months ago not in the middle of a disaster any refusing fusing is refusing to acknowledge that he's government policies on fossil fuels. Might these kinds of events more likely in future and pints of false picture of us as being a model citizen. So that's sort of the two different stories that you'll get to painting and so dear listener when you're reading your facebook feed when you're reading your media if it's left left leaning just bear in mind that you'll conservative uncle. Tony is getting a completely different picture from his facebook Fade A and his new sources and it's not alive because lift all the live apart might think it's over for sky. Now come the next election. Everyone's GonNa remember this. Forget it but I might have a lot of them. Haven't heard I've heard the first the second and be they'll forget it anyway and NC even if I remember it I'll think what's best in my interest for my hip pocket. WHO's the manager of the economy? I really don't care about that other stuff. Ah Forgotten about. The floor is a hundred bucks down industrial that he's going to. He's going to reduce texts in manage. Who In my humble opinion is going to run the economy so always? Yeah so that's what we're looking at so so anyway thought we'd run through some of the arguments. So that when you walk doc. Because I had at Christmas time you come across people that you might normally see during the year different relatives and friends and you might not normally serve concern and I'm thinking of an uncle. Tony Ratings called toning. It was definitely very right wing and of course we've always had right wing Tony in so I'm just going to the sort of uncle. Tyrany character has as your conservative friend. Uncle who reads the Australian and has these typical conserved sensitive us some arguments to give in response. When you're sitting around the table with uncle tiny at some point so how about this is? The government is being warned that this was going to happen. So we've got a CSIRO report from two two thousand nine eleven years ago and in the report it said it model. Climate projections showing that much of South Australia might become warmer warmer drier. This modeling suggests that point. Twenty twenty extreme for danger dies in South Eastern Australia. My occur five to sixty sixty five percent more often than at present that report. Two thousand nine say this sort of stuff that the government has and I've been warned about and other stuff in that report. I've got links to all this dilemma. But more importantly there's a guy called Greg Mollins it's hand. He's been viewed by the and he's also written a number of things and he's retired. Let me see if I've got. His description is the former fire and rescue. newsouth Wows Commissioner. so He's been fighting fires involved in it for over. Forty forty is at a very senior position since Adam was a boy he now shit about fighting fires and got some recordings of what he had to say about got so he formed a group with about twenty other retied. Emergency Service senior. People people like him from all states saying young the people in charge of state response to emergency services. All of them retired twenty of them and he contacted right tomorrow morning. April sign hang. We've got a really big problem coming up in this fire season coming up. You must do something. I've got these twenty people delegation Gatien of about four of us and want to meet with. You WanNa meet with other relevant ministers because it's urgent that we do things. There is a disaster happening in months. Go Bowling response. So so when people say are Morrison by sippy couldn't have predicted addicted now. He's doing everything he can the Ansari's he was told about an and at a time when he could have done something he did nothing. So one of those things in particular particular would be aicraft for would've bombing. They're very useful in quite effectively. Indeed so let me play a little bit of what mountains Ed decide on the. Ib have you ever seen a situation. This series I was in Beichman's by on as a in charge of of an Irish crew and I'm still shocked of I've been fighting fires for forty seven years been through the Blue Mountains far as multiple times not in seventy seven ninety four. Two thousand one to where I live in the northern beaches not in seventy nine hundred ninety four up four five in the US This is what twenty or twenty nine other foreign emergency shapes format shapes and I tried to win the prime minister. Ah Back in April and my and we went listened to. What could he have done a lot? Now you say the military if you look back We made a number of suggestions to use the military in a more organized unless had had talk fashion. The answer was that the soup are D- The this and they misquoted. What we'd said and said look everybody Nice? Soldiers can't fight fires but then eventually they were forced into using the Eddie if we said that they need to be more funding for firefighting aircraft. He said that's a stupid idea. They've got enough shape. This current chaser telling me they've got enough which wasn't true because they'd put in a data business case pleading for more funding two years ago which is still sitting on. The desk in camera was forced to put in another eleven million dollars. which is too little too late? So the response to these Look on or have to say or I've got to watch what aside because I'm very tied in multiple FIS was Bagai when the not the two colleagues killed In black I've been at Grafton GonNA has valley up all around the stipe putting FIS and I'm getting pretty fatigued so I'll have to watch what side but I'm angry about the prime minister's response it reminds me a president trump when there's multiple shooting saying it's nothing to do with guns. He went talk about guns. We have to talk about climate change because because how bushfires situation in Australia has changed forever. It's been a twenty eight price table in the business like may have watched with Hara Tara Spike into the Bureau of Meteorology CSI row and scientists. And say what the Hell is going on. Nice said here. It is but we're not being listened to so everything he from. The government is way during this during the time we go down we go to like guys Sorry that was his credentials and initial warning in the chat room was is five to sixty. Five percent is not very specific. In terms of the warnings. This is the so IRA said that that I may occur far to sixty five percent more often than what the point is. If you told it's possible that they might be sixty five five percent more than you have to assume that that might happen. Something you'd have to. You'd have to make plans for thirty two and a half percent yes or also in other things that I said was for example that that landscape predicts a two percent increase in mean annual temperature would increase far intensity by twenty five percent increase. The area burned in half the mean interval between is in the ICT so has specific. And you'd be about what's going to happen and you'd be crazy to narrow it down to a small number but the point is a warning is given in writing. Eleven years ago warnings by guys realized like this as recently as April saying we must have a meeting. We've got to do things but let alone. No Action Yelm took months and and I think we've got more about that light assign so I've got a link to in in the Scheinin got the actual letter that was written sign that we've got an emergency coming and we need to do things urgently in. Can we have a meeting and use fobbed off the white long before anything could be done so so. It's a really genuine criticism to say to like told holidays so Ken Morrison Gallon a holiday. WAS THAT A. What's your feelings on him? Going on a holiday it would have been a hell of different detainees family up to the Gulf L. Coast rather than Hawaii I think in the Gulf coast. He would've still be known hyme soil he would have been able to get briefings and all that sort of stuff very quickly but he was out of the country and was not a good look to be out of the objects terrible. It would have been much easier to say on here at a moment's notice in Hawaii where I can't get back for two exactly on the Gold Coast could be being on Jetstar or something like that back to camera real quickly. Do Eh ordinarily always a little bit sympathetic at the beginning holiday. And so you've got people who are employed to ron emergency services so we have these people in charge to do their job inside insight ordinarily I would think they should do. Their job in. The prime minister should stay out of it but in the case of sky he declared it a national national disaster and then took overseas he always jumps in front of the camera and says. Don't worry every body on in charge. Well if you're going to do because then you iron it. So if he had if he'd come and said we've got a bad summer ahead of us of these people people in charge. I'm going to say no more. You talked to them or by the way if if they ever asked them with her giving them everything they want and if they ever tell you I'm not I'll I'll be back and if you've done that you could Nikolai for week with the kids on the Gulf coast but when you come out and decide where everybody in charge I got this covered and then unique off you find it on Friday but interesting. been at keene. Crockett said it was the other thing is when that Christine they. Nixon was the Victorian police. Chief was absent during Jewish vase that was recordings of Morrison being interviewed at the sign that she made a bad judgment. Call so hi. If he's prepared to say that about somebody else and she did she win it dinner. That's all she did. I was just GonNa say that but it was at the height of the crisis and she went out for for dinner rather than being in the control room or wherever they stationed so this is the how she was so high up that everything was all just going to go on without her so she went out to dinner. What's the big deal I guy? So a big furor. We'd have to agree at Scott Morrison going on holiday across the absolutely. I founded incredible the week after that. The New South Wales Emergency Services Minister. David Elliott goes to the country for a trip to the UK and France for holiday. He's the New South Wales Emergency Services Minister and after all Hullabaloo about Morrison's is on holiday and he said They call it a ten year. He said quote bushfire affected communities. And I thought is always at the front of my mind during this difficult time or continue to receive receive two briefings each day from the Rural Thaw Service Commissioner. This is the caliber of this. Is D listener. This says when politicians know that died. I have to do anything to Kate. You happy they just. That's just arrogance to the extreme. And he went to Europe. Didn't it even further away than Hawaii. Isn't it it is yeah. Yeah considering the whole Hullabaloo Sky wouldn't you think is the emergency services DC quietly. Cancel your trip. Wouldn't you think you would think when he came back. He said my absence. I've been the last week was inexcusable. Duty in Africa's holiday. Well he should have said it before he left he should have called a press conference and said look. My behavior is going to be inexcusable. I'm leaving on a trip to Europe and as Brahman in the chat room stays and the Defense Minister Winter Bali at about the same time and she even tweeted far mar updates from Bali trying to because if she was doing Australia. Defense trading us for mugs. But clearly the defense we're going to decouple holding to assist in this fall. Clearly that was on the cards they treating us like mugs. It's it's Napoleon. Despite we're not hot mugs are we will. We are of weeks. And what are we going to do about it more about that later in the in the shower so just to Elliott so the one. He's at a controversial year because he's the one who said he would appeal for his own children to be strip searched and pulled over and he pulled over a lighter and tell the youth that he worked for the cops like he's caliber of guy. He was the New South Wales. Emergency Services Minister so wrought what Albany Easy Live leader suggested. Compensation for volunteers. Morrison was dismissive at first LYDA announced payments of up to six domains. Gentlemen should voluntary for. I fought his be tied or doing it for the love. And we we. It wasn't a salary. It was compensation sizes. Understand that but I think that if the fire a savings is going to get longer and that sort of thing is going to be more intense. I think it's not unreasonable. That we that we stopped paying these blogs to be out on the fire lines now. That doesn't mean that we should pay them to try and that sort of thing but when they go out on active duty in a fire situation. I think it's unreasonable to pay them. I don't hi. I think anybody would accept scum. And the New South Wales Rural Fire Service Commissioner Shying Fitzsimmons who initially rejected calls tools. He's members to be compensated for their work. In the ongoing which crosses sighing it would undermine the spirit of volunteerism underpinning the WHOA. That's mine volunteerism. Rule Faucet of its commissioner. Shine it Simmons. He's cleanly on drugs or something like that. That makes no sense whatsoever as a Cape they started as a volunteer organization. If you go back far are enough probably. The professional firefighters were volunteer organization. You got to look at the situation faced with in this country and then is that with climate change are Fox fire seasons going to get longer and more ferocious and we've got to get more volunteers in that we're going to get more people out there on the front professionals. Well I aw I don't think you want to professionalize but I do believe that they should be paid to go out there and fight the fires. Yeah differently if on young fire with more than just a dial two you should kick in with a thing to say his compensation so you can keep going because it would cost a lot of money. What's the arrangement with foreign fine? Firefighters get paid but they get paid by the government. I would imagine but like I've Lear on so a foreign thought authority off the Americans and Canadians and New Zealand is that'd beat getting some compensation thoughts I wouldn't be doing it for love. England it seems eminently sensible. These people should be paid eight one. That's a long ongoing fire. At least I can't believe that that was a difficult decision. This this comes down to sky has an obsession with his budget surplus absolutely is protecting the budget surplus because clearly if you spend money on this sort of thing you're not going to be criticized what it would be such an easy decision to site. Yeah it's fair enough. Let's let's pay them then. It's GONNA surplus the wants to be standing in Powell someone at some point and Si- Tada we've got a budget surplus about. That's the whole point that was made by the two grumpy afternoon. I was listening to there. Were saying that that sky is so religiously waited to his surplus that he has announced his fire. Recovery thing they said is going to be three billion dollars over three years and they made the point that the number at the amount of federal government funds flew into Queensland after I two thousand eleven floods with ten billion dollars. Yeah so I was looking at it shape. He's looking incredibly cheap so I don't think that he's going to get away on. I don't think he's going to be delivering a surplus next year. We'll see right. Fireworks Display Games. Come knees being plane aim for ages and obviously Sydney Sydney for example with the Sydney Harbour DECI shrouded in smoke is an understatement like it was unbelievably. It's Nike down for several weeks and a lot of people said well. The fireworks Alex display should be cancelled because of disaster does. Does anyone here agree with that. Roy We what better place to let off fireworks than over Sydney how they fall into water clearly in a situation where you're let's just assume the risk of creating a fall then we're really just talking about the ethical consideration of one group of people celebrating while another group of people is having a hard time and you know one of the things we do on this d listener when we're talking about ethical and moral dilemmas. Is We sign or if you're in favor of the fireworks been canceled. And what's the general rule that you would write that is applicable to this situation and is it that in case of an emergency that with disaster happening then no. Nobody's allowed to have any celebrations anywhere in Australia is. Is that what we sign and or I guess okay. We'll know that doesn't mean not any celebration but we just don't like the idea of celebrations when there's a five symbolic symbolic sort of connection. Yeah but I will. Does that mean for example. If there was a fountain display which there are some times on rivers and things like a mega in Brisbane. I have a different towns with different fountains and lights dispose fans. Do we not had that during a flood is that is that bad taste because they have a water exactly. Is that what you're saying because it's a kind of an equivalent. The situation is it the fact that you can't use as a tool for your enjoyment the thing that's causing a problem for someone else and you start to see the ridiculousness like community entity still have to have fun and I was down on the Gulf coast. Prime Minister still have to have holidays. Dade shoot ahead. These go who was indeed always the on the go getter and there was a fireworks display on the beach there and it was a lovely atmosphere where there was just hundreds of families at on Picnic. Blankets and a lovely PROC- own area fronting the beach kids running around everywhere little marquees and things people sit up and had a great time and as a community. We don't get together often enough like very limited things. Anzac Day fireworks occasional festival in Brisbane thinking of river fire and other things. But there's not that many times and we actually together and there's something to be said for that isn't it means leans important as a community that we get together cider end and also just getting back to Sydney the people who are in favour. The cancelling fireworks have never had a small business. I bet you because if you're running a restaurant or a river cruise or you work in one like there's a lot of money that people are relying on the business moved huge prophets flow from that incident around that your wife Mike the way for ordinary people just the top end in people make commitments so one year we went on a sort of news anything that Sydney Hobby on a big boat was very type thing. And Right. But you'd be really pissed if you that flights and everything couldn't do it and then people in wouldn't do it in future years because I get well because it might be cancelled inside The whole range of reasons why that was not a good idea so anyone disagrees. It gives us your opinions and the other thing. Too that I heard was that they said that the money should be redirected. But the money's already been spent it's spent months. You can't redirect rick money that's already spent. Yeah so there was a thing where the the media was kicked out of the Big Valley at one stage but then there were told. You're actually Aladdin. So you can sti- say kicked out of the Big Valley. Just police came along and tells them you've got a guy in all because of the the threat well or was it because they went happy with the pool. Pi Stuff that's guy was getting didn't want people filming so brought the argument that's come up is blind. The grains for the lack of hazard reduction burning and this is a complete lead of garbage actually. And I'm not a a good friend of the grains I've said it before grains are a pack of lunatics and they are also the ones that are responsible for us not having any sort of climate any climate change Mitigation Gatien. Because they exactly they knocked it on the head and they backed Julia Gillard into a corner where she had no choice but to bring in a carbon tax tiny have it means means at exit exit tax where we knew ten years later. Nothing's happened a decade lost. Sorry I'll give miles. You're in a chat room. Allison says ally from a Chinese restaurant in. Tasmania good on your commitment. So when it comes to the hazard reduction burning so this is not backburning backburning. This is like during the cool. Systematic Reduction of Louis C. Rental you start a fall on the bison that it'll just basically the undergrowth in wine actually in the atmospheric conditions are favorable. Doesn't sort of get away from you and cause havoc. Yeah so I've got links to different articles and I'll be audio from mullins again but others leaving nothing but basically what they saw us that it's is because it's been side Ryan so hot. It's really risky very dangerous. Iran nice and infects sometimes. When they're doing they do get away? You get out of control not not at all unusual isn't yeah so so the weather conditions are such that it's now really tricky to find a window of opportunity to actually do it. The Greens their policies. To do it when you can. So the idea that the grains of somehow in charge of rural fire services and telling him what to do shit. This criticism wasn't so much aimed at the Greens party but greenies in other words people who when the local council announced that the to do some hasn't reduction some people say od don't bend the Bush. She might kill some animals and you upsetting the natural balance so I think it was more aimed at that general sort of type who doesn't want any interference or any sort of human interference in the natural state green green sympathisers rather than the Greens part. Oh I think so Yeah so so. That's the argument with has reduction complete and there was another article I think Ross sent me an article and I didn't get a chance to read it properly but it was kind of science. It's not that simple. It's a really complicated procedure when you actually sleep. When you clear the undergrowth if the canopy also deteriorates than the undergrowth Groesbeck quite strongly and then it draws away again in a in a sense you can almost increase the amount of undergrowth unless you doing it? Every year in the problem is it's really hard to do it every year because the conditions just not necessarily right say and that's a huge area too we prob- they probably don't have the personnel to Systematically do that everywhere every year right. What's no one or the other argument is a state government issue firefighting writing is a state government issue? The KAMOV isn't really involved in that. That was fine before scam. I charge hoped the lawn lot. Well when he when he winning and becoming complete media todd on the whole thing back in September then he signed it. I agree with driven. Brought you on it. Well it's more than that. What sites if you break it you on we bought it really any Britt did decide Zyppah firefighting is a state gunman shipping will like? I said the different Safaa services are state government when it comes to money states nights in the Komo have come to an arrangement which we'll d listener even further back than that we've got a constitution so the Constitution said when all the state's got together and I said we need a federal government and I said okay. Here's a series of topics that the federal government is responsible for. And I got the obvious things like making money and currency the Defense Force shing things like that and everything else style with the state's so things like fossils education pose this this style with the state emergency services generally but what also happened at a time. Is that the states said to the Commonwealth will. We'll let you levy income tax wchs. You're going to be the guys collect the money and you're going to distribute it to us to before me out jobs so when it comes to money for five fighting the state can't really generate money. They've got a limited amount of payroll taxes and royalties and stuff. So essentially the federal federal government is responsible for getting money and distributing it so under the constitution what not technically technically the government. The federal government really should have nothing to do with education but they dollar only education monitoring. And we've got school chaplains in your state. Schools is funded by the the government which is nothing to do with the federal government. You would think so when they want to get involved in an issue by can because they hold the purse strings so they can Consi- here's some money and he's the conditions on the which we're giving it to you so so when it comes to the money that's required for aircraft and helicopters it can carry water. It's it's it is the federal government it's not the state. Government is a federal government issue. Because they're the ones with the money. So factually it's correct to say it's a stike government issue but but realistically it's a federal government issue because the Y.. System works. There's your answer chronicle tiny if that one comes up and also clearly these far crossing state boundaries defense involved this requires a coordinated approach from the Central Authority and not a bunch of states operating brookshires. Right He ran an ad which was side blatantly. Self promotional seen it was Wyatt. Bad was it. It was terrible watched it once and it was pretty forgettable. Did it make a big impression on you. I only in that. It was so poorly thought holy executed and who paid for it. Did we pay for the Liberal Party. Pipes we paid for it and it had this cheesy elevator music going on some some of the background so it was run as an ad body. Australian government rob your strong Liberal Party which is really where it came from. The the shovel suggested that I should run a second ed to apologize for the First Ed. So so that's what the ADS. Okay I mentioned before the different stories that you kidding. From from the Murdoch press as opposed to the no twelve man and this is gonNA mean much. This is my challenge for the year is to convince you of of the media is slanting things in how that's actually having an effect on the media slanting and the effect it's having on paper. I just think it's a little bit difficult to measure. Maybe I'm wrong. A little difficult to measure the degree to which it sways people think anyone various issues. I mean to say the last federal election it is an example that but we all know. Swinging voters are the key elections but they are the majority of people travelled website. They are. But you've got this whole world that money is spent on the middle Murdoch went after that middle voter to try and stitched them over to the Tories as he does. Yeah right but what I was GONNA say it back getting back to Cuny's presses if I was in rural liberal areas that had been what jet by this far and I'm reading the Australian in how this saying well this is just another fire complined Sky Sky Mile where anybody furious I'd be living with the Murdoch press. It'll be interesting to see how the people who have have to rebuild their homes and their lives will react. Well he's been on suggesting that Liverpool had a situation where after the hillsborough brought disaster in nineteen eighty nine in which ninety six Liverpool fans were crushed to death in either creating the Murdoch newspaper. Pretty pages I just false claims that not only blind Liverpool fans for the disaster but accuse them of uniting on police officers and other things and beating up offices attempting. CPR AW and pick pocketing. The did in all of those reports have been proven to be fabrication so Liverpudlians pod Lou. uh-huh uh-huh furious. They boycott the press. So so if you go into pool you cannot buy the son in unusual agency or anyway. The taxis have anti eighty seven messages on that the Sun News pipe is not sold in Liverpool as a community. Thank you not having thing that he and I think if a shop was to put a stained of pipe Zahra but soon be told. I'm not buying your oranges apples and milk unless Colette stands I D listener. If you're out the creator means suggesting that these bushfire towns boycott the Murdoch Press When they rebuild censorship? I'm in favor of action of boycotting voluntary. It is and what about telling a shopkeeper if you carry this if you carry any newspapers from the Murdoch our buy anything from you shop. Not just audience choice libertarian. You should be happy with with with a private individual. Says it's not going to give you my business because using using too much. Plastic your but your about the mixed business shopkeeper in country town I mean he. He isn't necessarily surly endorsing. What in any of the newspapers he's just carrying these needs? He's a general. We're not going to buy that good but if the topic is don't stop that paper or we won't buy anything from your shop. I think that's a step too far too. I think it's fair enough for people pulled to boycott the publication and so we're not going to buy that publication but to tell us Shop Kepa if you if you carry that in your shop. We're not going to buy anything. It's a little bit drastic. I think I think I think you found heliport. Works boycott works boycott the product. You boycott the company me too. Company product is one of the items that that shopkeeper is using to sell to make money. Yeah it's very small minor portion of sales that he's making it that boycott so if you don't boycott everything that he's trying to search then we can't get you can't product chat room gives some you don't want to bankrupt the small business person. What if you don't like Kellogg's what if you think Kellogg's products products complete garbage and you say to the shopkeeper and you convince all your friends and neighbors let's not buy anything from that shop because they start Kellogg's just as is an example? I'm not saying Kellogg's isn't. This is really a bad thing made sanitarium as an example sanitarium. Well what if what if they have an objection to sanitarium not paying income tax on have a problem with. I need to the shop. If you stock sanitarium products are looking on a buy anything for your show. It's not a threat it's simply signing. Because he signed. I've got an ethical position. I don't agree three with this particular product just if you stop it. I'm looking frequently going to do everything I can to buy stuff from elsewhere. Swear as much as I can your butcher with Hal. Might I really disagree with the idea of of killing animals without proper anesthetic. Take for example. Then if you're GONNA if you're the sort of butcher is happy to do that I'm not going to do business with you whole a whole range of reasonable reasons. Why somebody could side shopkeeper just letting in I if that's conducting business it's like odd been learning any yet what about a bookshop like? Would you boycott the bookshop. If they carried by bulls. Can I give you another example. been hearing about shops. Now that the thing in trouble for underpaying this staff right yes so and one of them. I'm not real sure if nine but because entirely they one of them but I think they are in what I was doing on the Gulf coast recently. Normally all would have a decision not McDonald's thinking it was more premium brand of they got me. Give me some credit but something more premium than there is and I thought if there's a whole range of reasons why you could legitimately side. That's a business that specializes in one particular line of what the shopkeeper might be able to say stuff young putting. He's China in and if you want milk you're GONNA have to get from. A person might just have to bought anyway. But our consumers have the ability to what about my book shot it's cool consumer sovereignty for a reason conceal social come on what about the bookshop. Like there's some really really terrible unquestionable publication. I can put about why why we shouldn't tonight out children children or something and the book the bookshop says. Well it's just another a publication. We're going to stock new. Say if you stop that book and they're going to buy anything from your shop ever again agree and what happens is if my argument is really poor. Then on the one who's not going to do it and the bookshop has nothing to worry about these. My argument is legitimate and has substance and I can convince a number of other people then the bookshop does have something to worry about so depends on the strength of the argument. If it's nonsense argument mm-hmm and nobody's GonNa fall out then. I'm wasting my time. They're not gonNA worry about me. And I'm simply saying that I think Victorians and New South Wales rural communities especially who have been salt ship from this mirror. Praise men who are continuing a spin lies that are going to make sure that this happens again and again in the future should sign. I'm not having to do with it so I I would not buying the product not buying the Murdoch publications subscribing to them online or anything. I think that would be more than reasonable and legitimate. Okay they idealist now. We'll revisit that issue. I think fear that is examples modified a little bit. But when we're talking about the white one. Have you ever boycotted been apart from the hamburger shop. I've ever boy clarity business here. Look for example if a business refused to supply law pharmacy. We have issues coming up because of this religious discrimination bill. We're going to have businesses that refuse to Supply for example contraceptives and homes of religious reasons. And if if I farm assist is refusing that and I need a cadre cold and flu tablet. I'm going to buy it somewhere else and I'm going to tell that pharmacist missing nutbag bag because if you're crazy villages in refusing to provide service that everyone needs on boycott now. Would you boycott a pharmacy if you knew that. It was refusing to supply. Good Crohn's and contraceptives good question because there are a lot of pharmacies around so we have a lot of choice. Now the example I'm thinking of some muse ago. I could hang on the on that one pharmacy one the pharmacy one and think about again rural communities where there might only be limited services available this is the whole point of these guys is is. You've got rural communities who if you're chemist doesn't have it might have to travel fifty kind now. Would you boy that pharmacy and get your stuff from the the other one fifty county on the road because of good question yeah got you on. You might have delegated listener but it didn't take long because I mean if if if if if the pharmacist was taking kind of religious ethical position and refusing to stock set medications like morning after after pill contraceptives or whatever. Yeah I suppose I would have a problem with the pharmacist. Personally you know what I mean. So that would be more of a personal issue than productivity actually Bill ninety-one says the boycotts are Brandon's that's true. I'd boycott computers as much as possible because there was some religious here. I was thinking of a case some years ago when I was reading about Shell Oil Oil Company in basically supporting very corrupt regime in an African country where they had oil extraction interests. It's and basically that. The government was executing people who are protesting are objecting or bringing attention. The world's attention to the the the she corruption and the environmental damage. That was being done by shells extraction industries now for several years. I've avoided buying in petrol from shell stations but I had a lot of other options. It was easy but then you know some years down the track realized basically they all do shitty things in the so. I thought it was seemed kind of empty and meaningless at the time. Yeah but it's important when it comes to small communities and Liverpool is a great example. The actually boycott son to Die Straits is II. Boycotted a physiotherapist because he suggested acupuncture to me I considered him to be not using the scientific method. And so right okay. So that was on boycotts. Please somebody it's something that might go viral and star that one. I really think it could take off if somebody was able to create Rodman for that one Orelon next question is well. What would library of done? I mean it's all this this is what would come down to is I. K Sky was terrible. Perform terribly but uncle tiny would cy will. What would live with? Donna had been the sign miss. Even if they were in government. What would you say? What would you say Scott I would say ten years ago? He's they've got that carbon price through the carbon approximately ten years ago but the got that established and has a strays commissions would be a lot lower but because Australia's only responsible for one point something percent of the counter missions of the world. Even if we win zero emissions tomorrow we're going to have bagger all impact you want of symbolic significantly very significantly symbolic paps worth doing instill is absolutely worth doing. Because then we're middle-order country Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah. We can actually try and promote random. God what would I have done. I think you'd have to get back to build. Shortens pressurize. Seventy two thousand nine ten. I want to sign. He said at the moment is try. That doesn't have a government. Inflate of water bombing aircraft making us rely on barring from private companies domestically and information disease. He's the bushfires is as an Australia is lengthening and already overlapping with the northern hemisphere increasing. The risk that we won't be able to access aircraft. We need it Tom. uh-huh payroll at the same time the federal government's contribution initial era aerial firefighting centre has plummeted from fifty percent and funding to twenty three reducing overrule Roll Firefighting Capability Labor's National Firefighting package will deliver eighty million dollars to establish the National Areo push for fighting fleet fleet of aircraft this fight for providers standing aerial firefighting capacity that will be used on demand in emergencies so labor actually had a policy absolutely meaning eight hundred million dollars on firefighting and on aircraft. How many water bombing aircraft is eighty million buys a a few because they wouldn't be too good? You've got sorry it's expected. The National Fleet will include a standing capability of up to six large large or very large air tankers up to twelve heavy rotary wing helicopters. I mean that's good night said that the other answered ankle tiny when he says. I would've done anything beside miss. Well actually had a pulsing. I'm sorry on on on that Where was it a little bit something that they were talking? We're buying nut can't said that does not talking about one echoes radio without talking about re retry feeding military you to make it was retrofitting. Blackhawk helicopters is part of this. Yep so that would happen. As as part of this plane I had a policy right now. Friend of the program was good. I was in the chat room. And then somebody and I can comment. He posted a link from a website. Called thought hub and he when reposting and said it was a rare rational and balanced news story about the Bush vase and it's titled Sort of facts about the bush fires and was that it was good and sharing hiring and I took a look at it and I thought this smells fishy to me. It's just this. This isn't these facts but the distorted slanted facts so anyway I said look. I've got an issue with facts. Some of these facts here and they were. I forget we'll get back to them but gets back to the muscle. The intro to the podcast is who writes these things. So this kind from website called thought hub and end my first issue before going. Any further is well who the fuck is thought thought Hob- like who who are in their about ATP page says the thought Features Australian political and social commentary. The food values classic liberalism individualism and the free market it. You can follow the TUB on facebook for regular updates. That's all it says a bit. Who would use but classic liberalism individualism and the free market sort of alarm bells ringing for me on that one anyway? First thing I do is ah who is thought who owns thought hub and end up at a reddit page and read it. Page has an entry on which says is the third hub is written by guy called Dial Hughes is a member of the Victorian liberals and then there's a link and basically somebody's gone to the trouble of getting to the registry of domain names for thought hub dot COM Dra in finding this guy's name and and now that he's a commentator whose Liberal Party Victoria member saying so thought how dot com today. You looks is like if you were told that this comes from a Liberal Party sympathizer it just take with an extra grain of salt. Wouldn't affect your you know if it came from the Liberal Party it would affect your thinking about your alarm bills would be ringing. We'll what if okay something came from the Greens. Indeed to sign thing. Say you should imply that everything. Exactly you've gotta try. If you've got the time and to find out the source did it on the Nile on twitter because most people don't have the time or they don't want to expend in too much time chasing Dan seals so but ultimately that wasn't that hard just to say who is thought how good I've ain't within a minute. You're at read it and and somebody's gone to the trouble of finding APPs he also says he that dial Hughes's ceased Liberal Party membership ships since previously describing this in the drama in Fairfax opinion pieces but he doesn't disclose on his thought. Website his background so Ah so that's the first thing is when you see something like this is who's writing it. And then okay. Somebody of that bent now. More suspicions are aligned correctly. Read the article and fact number one he comes up with these. Basically there are bad facts in all of them sort of painted a picture which to me was a picture of stop your whingeing and complaining about the government. It's not so bad as your everybody's whingeing. A bear the kind of tired of it there's links to Lewisham on the show nights so number one. The federal government government has been responding since November the defense the Federal Defense Department has been offering support and reinforcement since November eight every request from state governments is being promptly granted to die the idea of helped evacuate residents and visitors from Malik. Khuda as David Crowe reporting tonight they had been refueling. Aerial tankers providing vehicles and drivers surgeon risky operation serving meals to firefly's providing accommodation for volunteers. You can find the details here at Lincoln. Oh big deal. The federal government's being responding since November. I if one hundred percent accurate as effect the point is the shit. They didn't do six months ago and six years ago is the problem when I had a chance so merely saying well. Now they're doing. The right thing is is too late. That's the point kind of deflection. So while the in fact is true probably the bicycling dominated. I've been asked since November Ryan. It's too light. It should have been done earlier. Fact number number. Two emergency management is a state government responsibility while the federal government has been cleared. All support can provide will be granted. Fine Management isn't reminds a state responsibility Blah Blah. We've already dealt with. That's true that fine management is but in effect. The money comes from the Komo of government and fact number six year was that Australian government steidl federal liable all liberal are not directly responsible for the Fox six and he says he blaming the federal government direct the far as rhetorically convenient as it might be does not stand up to scrutiny or rationality astrology midst. One point three percent of global emissions however strike is the biggest explore of call as accomplishment board earlier this year this fact in Australia's emissions climbed four percent Stroz the middle of carbon cabinet in the world still it does not follow that a country with a low emissions can directly on its own be responsible for the changing finding climate that is exacerbating the fines the hitting of that fact he's a strong government steidl federal liberal are not directly responsible for the fives this. Let's true they not but they might not the federal government's directly responsible for not having been prepared to fight these laws laws and the flaws may not be in certain areas if being prepared down the road things saying anyway very hard to say for sure. Of course yeah so anyway. Oh I'm appointing three of the facts are really Maybe technically correct but misleading in what getting at and so d listener. When I say you have to examine the facts and try and find the sources you have to look carefully at the facts got won't really? Is that a relevant fact. And in the context of things. The fact that the government's done everything can since middle of November. Does it really matter if in fact it should have been doing anything six months ago there right. That's no fun for us for a little bit. We'll vits slightly and we haven't isn't mentioned Barnaby Joyce for awhile. To Golden Heaven. Barnaby was in his paddock and he was on the back and he was fading his cattle and he just just had enough and he was looking pretty hot and bothered wasn't it. He decided he he's dying out and start live streaming the world sports. And what a and what you've got I've got it here for you. Deal few thought of Barnaby as he was fittings cattle. Here we go well you probably want to. What a politician do on Christmas as well it went? It's drought now enough to convince me the climate's not changing. This changing my problems with you believe in the tax is going to change your back. I just don't want the government anymore by life. I'm sick of the government being in my life and the other thing is I think we've got a acknowledges our authority authority this beyond comprehension and brought up there in the sky unless we understand that that's got to be respected acted. Then we're just we're going to get neild some of us up there in the sky. You can't be more explicit. Wasn't the governor. Wasn't he the guy in the sky got nailed. Wasn't it across. Well he's funny Trista. Look up there I I mean this is the leadership we've got deal is not the litany of disasters political decisions. We've gone through already and the Yup. The this is something said a few weeks ago. I said I could never imagine at greater prime ministers of the past ever wearing wearing their religion on this slave the way these current crop seems to you know. It's really bizarre. That they honestly honestly think that they can get away with it now and getting away with too great extent it's depressing talk about what you can do same. What is bound to be saying that he doesn't want the government needs live? He's a member of the government. Exactly this guy is one of the guys operating the levers off off government goodness site. Meanwhile he is. He was the special drat envoy he never provided I written report fluid of his activities he sent text messages. Yeah and certain groups have been putting in freedom of information requests trying to find. He's text so that basically saying you. The government look at the the fines and give us a copy of the text messages and the government opted off. It's not too tough a matter of national security. Almost we'll yes are. It's tough ticket too much shawn in doing that. We reveal things that really skips acre. It's they are fools and we are because we are taking in fact that define the spirit of the Lore Freedom of information it was supposed to be about transparency and government so the actual people who vote interpower have access to the thought behind the decision making. Is that what it's about. Yeah exactly exactly. That's what spice to be there. But I can just follow this off right. Still Twenty twenty coming up. So we're we're already there. Yeah in the words of Pablo cosell's the situation is hype ass- We must take the next step. What what other option and do we have I put it to you. D Listener this conservative. Government are a bunch of nut bags that are beyond redemption fixing these guys like the leadership we've just looked at it's riddled with minor and as we illustrated on previous episodes the membership it is now just taken over completely and it's full of religious bags who are pushing through things like religious discrimination bill. There is nice saving leaving this liberal planning. It has been taken over by a version of the tea party and it cannot not recovered. Only option is for someone else and I sai- you're wasting your time with micro. Party's you should join the party. And the lighter parties got enormous problems flawed in day but nowhere near as deeply flawed lord of the Liberal Party. Scott you were talking about joining the Labor Party East. I will still do. It could work at where it's I'm going to do it. I really want that compromise. Your care dependence. Let's face it. Nobody's going nobody's going to be what commentator anyway so I'm just kidding myself so I'm GonNa Join Live Party. I mean telling everybody else to you will be a worthwhile exercise. So so there's a he's the help I keep telling. The better Hoffy. Should attend meetings and all that sort of stuff. He's already a member. He's a member of the Labor Party doesn't he doesn't attend the meetings. Yeah tents meetings in New Zealand during the course of twenty twenty. I'm going to tell you how it kinds but he's my inspiration is I've been listening to Michael. Moore's let's go to new podcast. The Rumble America's Michael. Yeah Yeah yes yeah. You Hide Him Dante Untidy all right I just think he's a little bit inconsistent. He picked the election. He knew the trump was gonNA win. He said I think table. I didn't don't you think he was. One of the very few who said trump is going to win and he called it very early. So lucky guth in Lucknow wasn't he ran. He was he was in St Rustbelt. Where where is Hillary? I'm watching trump rallies. Hillary is going to win. This trump. Sorry thank you so I'm looking. Listen the his podcast. And he's talking about the Democrats and I'm looking at the Saints and Elizabeth Warren Born and as Co chairs and there's a battle going on in the Democratic Party in the states between the establishment. Right right wing. Which is your guidance Clinton's Yup who are over the status quo? Bicycling the business big business as usual exactly and you've got almost not a civil war but a real battle happening in the the Democratic Party with people like Sanders and others are saying we need to change this party to the left and they're working hard as they can do it lift they'll alienate the vast majority of American voters. Well if will assign that but but arguably the reason the rust bill didn't vote for the Democrats was because they didn't provide any hype so arguably somebody like many sanders and Joe Biden. Buddha judge really very different ends of a spectrum but they're in the sign. Kati limits disagree on a Shitload side of stuff but they are actually in the same party. That's why I think he could join the live A- party and disagree with Shi'ite of staff but cy it needs to change whether that's possible or not in the Labor Party you disagree to publicly can you because they maintain what they call. NOPE party disciplined whereas the Liberal Party repeatedly tell us their abroad church Labor Party. Don't say that I know that put. The broad church is getting very narrow because is it has been dominated by near dominated by actual church members. But what's your feeling about. The Labour Party's insistence on so-called Party discipline in other words don't say anything publicly that deviates too far from the Party line. That's only for the elected. Alexander elected representatives. Everybody else's this is quite at liberty to say whatever they want to and you know that's why am I always used to height Liberal Party And you'll conferences because there are so orchestrated and they'll cardiograph to within an inch of their life whereas the live apology auty apparently back in the day used to walk in that'd be visually a brawl going on between all these people yelling and screaming show. Yeah and now. I don't know if that's still still the case but I can't imagine it would have moved on stat much anyway going and have a look and see and in the report. Oh yeah but that's the sort of Monson of entering it with with his short lots of problems but taking the leaf out of that sort of left wing the of the Democratic Party and trying to argue to people if I just get in a room with some of these people and just show them into a quantified Manson berate them with some ideas and that'll just be satisfying enough religious discrimination. Bill is going to be where you're going to start in. Did you think you can turn around the a historical decline if the Labor. Party's Ab now idea. But it's the only difference. I think that the minor parties MICR parties are waste of fortunately as much as such good people in them. I think they'd better spent elsewhere. Matthews is what was that. PODCAST you listen to Scott two crazy guys or something like that. A rookie individuals cranky axles. You've cranky heck sold for that one matthew or you might look it up while we're talking about so grumpy Heck's wrong braman says you'll find. There's a big difference between the Parliamentary Live Party and the membership they're often stock differences. Ag Gene Most members. Don't support lighters asylum seeker policy. It'll be interesting so that's going to happen. Twenty twenty other things. We're going to talk about like I've been talking about getting your information and trying to get a range of views and and being careful of knowing inherent ball is what you get and next week. I'm GonNa talk about our S S raiders. You guys aware of that. So for this podcast d listener. Basically if I find a website that I like the Sandoval Sandoval as interesting articles Sabi. The Kenan Malik Whip saw John Manager Web saw Monte quillet in what be spiked it might be and a range of different then you can get on our radar which is free or you can get on that a little bit of money for a couple of dollars a month and and essentially you can subscribe to websites and the IRS has fatal will find out whenever they pice an article everytime Kenan Malik Pie article or does it just appears in my list in the and it's a really good way of creating European news magazine for for your view of what's going on in the world so I'm GonNa talk about next week. A Bet using that and I'm GONNA ask for suggestions about blogs and websites that people think a good in so in the next week d listener. Send me your suggestions for sites like the John Miniature you blog and not like thought hub dot com that I can subscribe to these started live apart of do they have anything comparable like do they have a think tank. Shell and the different thing tackles Warren says a you aware of your inherited causes trevor. And the answer is yes. Everybody's biased side. We are clearly. I've got a loss against Steven pinker and the rash completely Iraq so if people I have bosses you've got to just be ridiculous somebody side around bars but you've just got to get what they are saying. I like if I say something about Steven Pinker. Most people listening to this podcast from last year. Would I travers anything. Thank all I'll take that with grind sell because maybe we think is right like excite. You could work it out like I could write a least a viruses but the really big money and livelihood livelihood and is somebody relying on their livelihood to run a certain line and the one of the benefits of this podcast. He's then then you're not getting paid by anybody except the listeners. Getting getting very me your money from the list indeed but a couple of bucks here and there from different people like are we at a one guy right to us recently and and basically compliance implying bit a number of things including boys and and really didn't plan about your body and I say to him. Look I get. That might not longer enjoy. The podcast are full. Full metal. Love with different podcast. Welcome to leave like so. We are not sort of if everybody left tomorrow because we came in and said something something. Outrageous righteous always thought that fifty percent of the people would disagree with which still science. Because it just doesn't matter to us there's not many people broadcasting d the list. Now he can say that guy like say Joe Rogan for example clearly independent in making bucket loads of money. But when you start making lots of money like if he came out with something that might knock off twenty five percent of his listeners. You coming out with something or he might say that well he might but he owes it might she gets a million dollars. Actually that hurts. Even though he's making five million a million dollars might not be greedy. I'm willing to forego that million bucks in day but we're at the point with chickenfeed so it doesn't really know what in someone a million bucks tomorrow trevor to totally slant your podcast in a certain direction. Would you accept it. Well a million dollars a year even a million a year you. You might be worth having well if they ought me a million dollars a year. Three hundred and thirty-three granted the coke brothers. Now I mean just for Trevor said Trevor. We want you to keep doing podcasts. By the way all that stuff you're doing about the sky doc. You want you saying we'll give you a million bucks I can. I can have another podcast on the side where they can I cite prostitute. Yeah well that would question about ten million. You could buy me for ten million. I'll it and what I'll do is with that ten million of fun somebody else to do on doing so. That's of course you. Aw d listener. Malevolent influence podcast. That's right if you're if you're an evil industrialist thinking to you and you rub your hands together and you're thinking thinking how can I shut down this. GODDAMN PODCAST is starting to on my vitamin Leonard. This fill love. Total can be ten a million dollars I we we can all be bought the land and had bottom. If you want to shut up ten million bucks that's that. What else are we going to do Thanh gang you? It's good for a a year and a half. It's not still young. Miss the podcast new. I was really looking forward to coming back. Pining for the PODCAST fifth in bars of course won the election in he convincingly I read something where he's got the BBC like he's investigating wise of removing their funding and. Yeah and I reckon Morrison is going to reduce funding for for the period of date they. ABC's sites so what you have for that. And what else could sip. They can't go to ABC because the National Party loves the sea because the ABC's the only ones that actually broadcast asked in the regions. I think quite a lot of time units like the or my is it just because I'm a lifelong. ABC Water. That I think other other people would also appreciate it I think he probably more the latter than the former unite the otherwise spotting somebody who reads the Australian and and one of the uncle. Tiny's that I met. My holidays was if they really bag. The Oh it's big sauna. I've been reading. It's trying because what's Libertarians. Support the Ibiza. You did perfect because I really liked. The I'd be saying appreciated the role of the ten years. I wish the ABC they see would have a little bit more. Ideological neutrality is what I asked. I don't want them to be biased in any particular Niculae Direction. I don't think they should be. I think they should be as far as practical audio logically neutral and then not we. We see that their religion and ethics department which used to be very good. I remember back. In the nineteen ninety S I used to listen to radio. National's religion report and the journalists. Who did it was excellent? And he was very non committed to any particular religion and he was scrupulously objective or at at least I think he tried to be and then he was he was dumped and replaced with some Christian guy or bunch of Christian guys and women And they've just taken over the section of the ABC and made it into a Christian lovefest to typically a libertarian. would be against the because it's publicly-owned and libertarian. would be free market libertarian. In that sense you not. I'm not you'll notice in some of their opinion pieces of very every strong far-left boss just came back to this uncle. Tiny direct something here if you start a conversation with the person and and they like skyline if they took the end climate change if they hate credit tom big. That's a big one in if the hype. ABC and if. I think trump's doing ikea because the stock market's up. My first question is reading a lot of the Australian. It's the the key thing Greg Kurtenbach talking about climate change and an anti. ABC is key. Ones can criticize people. Grab Great Fun Bug without hiding but these people really disparage her. Quite quite visuals air. Both yeah documentary called the brainwashing of. My Dad was on like Amazon prime. Something like that if if you can watch it the listener. It's an interesting thumb whether you're access assistive services on so basically what it was. Was this family. who had a lovely dead childhood? He was almost kind of alternative. Going leftish but gentle remember guy to New York getting out of the subway and he gave money to a `Heimlich's black man called him. Sir like just a gentle soul and in his retirement well pride is retirement. He started commuting for ninety minutes. Each day each Wi- they started listening to talk radio in start getting onto Fox News and turned into ranting. Bitter all main the the family just couldn't handle a family tragedy. Yeah it was it was real. It was a tragedy because this beautiful main like drawn up with China's completely and on emails. He used to just get these emails all talk with just sending me to a ride. You become quantify over of you. Yeah if you see the signs since let me ask me right anyway. So that's the premise of this documentary. And in the end the why why they solved it was he had to go in and get some monitor operation. Sally was in that situation a little bit of a circuit breaker. And they they went on your computer and by Szekely unsubscribe from these emails subscribed to some more lefty Schwann's and also said Fox tails not working anymore. Like can't fix. It changed that programming time and within a short while he kinda ran was a really Oscar again and views changed completely Senegal dementia had really setting. They didn't notice that these kids Kanipura lighting is on. But he'd been brainwashed by this sort of hard ripe talk back right and then reprogrammed both children which is worth well. I'll leave that to you. You Watch the documentary and see which I'll tell you one case a a few years ago. My elderly mother confided in me that one of one of my idea sisters had taken taken her to the the the polling stations on election day and basically guided her. Vote away from the party. She wanted to vote for that. She'd voted for for all her life and she taught me that and I said ever let my sister do that to you again. Your vote is you're right. I was really quite upset about it. Now it's one thing to give people access to alternative information but to try and shape their thoughts. What's their idea of? I think is a little on ethical. Well what if the though. It's not easy being shaped unethically by a right-wing Fox News these were sprouting lies and misinformation. WHO's to say who is more or less ethical though? Isn't that the right of the individual to make that judgment went. Well if somebody's being brainwashed I mean you talk about religion sure it but we talked about religion all the time as brainwashing. Saint to accept except that people can be brainwashed to I religious view. But you don't seem to accept that brainwashing can happen. No accepted I. I just think that it's a little unscrupulous to take an old person and trying deliberately change. What their access? What if what if the person was a fees moment woman and was subjected to Mormon propaganda all the time in the family said look? He's off as bad yet if not I at least agnostic or something on that fleet is in a right-wing liberal ideology isn't insidious like it can be the difference between ideology. Can you not see that in a religious level. You're more willing to pay the ideology and do something about it. Whereas with with this sort of economic ideology or you're you're more holidays little guy? You're more willing to do things about religion legion. I think all the extreme ideologies insidious and I think I would try to gently cokes. My elderly relative to broaden auden reading rather than sabotage the computer so that they can't access what I don't like to my family message to the future you sabotage my computer not big Liam in the chat room says I'd have solved yet fillets trevor thanks. Liam feel I would have to start off with a really high figure. I would have gone for a lot less now. What else do we have to say here? I think we're GONNA try to do a few video exert so you know when we had fun moments on this show trying a little. We're going to try them into some some little video segments and then maybe people can share them so if anybody's arm and my well. My daughter Said noted about my shanties in the chat room. He's actually this. You'll be looking for the song. Yeah so what I was GONNA say is. We're going to do little video exit so if we do them please share them. If somebody's Tommy in could help if you're retired you haven't been brainwashed by Fox News. We got Tom any hanes and at helping up with video editing let us know what else have we got here is patrons. Let's thank the patrons in the beer sponsors BASEBALL'S SPONSORS PLACE GOT TORONTO. Tonight with drinking from friend of the show Steve A Zitho brewing. RPI Hi it's very tasty. Say thank you very much Dave and the rest of the beast sponsors from this start was I land in hod boat and Bronwyn Dave Adam Caitland Oakland Zach Captain Doomsday friend of the show and tiny wall. Mr Anderson Glenn Bill and of course of the stave now next week. We're having a home may CBS. This is coming from a lady. Whose name escapes me? So I will get that name brought by next week in told chilled glasses absolutely chill some glasses. I did say I did it inside the bottle. Savar that one of them started leaking. Yes I've got one and a half I came back from a few lead is a wind. It was like what's that yeasty Beeri smell coming from office. Whoops and bottles have started leaking so anyway we have patriots the show you contribute as little as a dollar a show? It's not much but it helps pay full expenses and some people have been with us for it up. It's great guys like Sean. Say if the deal is if you're really locked his show actually. I was listening to somebody. Christmas son of a friend looks the show and said why. How much do you like? I'll be listening heaps. I said have you been listening for like twenty as he said yeah loving. I see what happens when you listen to twenty Chai's mark what well after twenty shows. It's time to start up. That's when you become a patron so it's purely voluntary. I'm Terry but if you really into the show and waited after I twenty to twenty five freebies we want you to sign on as a patron and contribute at least Russia to help cover expenses and a feature retirements. Thank you to people have done. In the past from way back on the fifth of February the two thousand and sixteen the one on the only the ultimate shorn. Your champion Sean. Thank you thank you also do Geno cry John Land and why now a Jahmai. Allison Steve. Tiny Kaitlyn Jimmy Spud kind. Bronwyn met Robert Rod Pele Madman Dominic Liam cheap. Now it could be cheaper. I forgot what you've said. Liam Dave Karen Daniel Harry Peter Captain Doomsday Week Watcher. Andy Murray Melinda Adam. Professor Doctor Dentist Willow. We'll Glen Craig. Matthew Alexander. Paul is still with us going. You pull Tom Terry Camille Kim. Donnie Darko Clinton Gavin. John is new. Oh I think John and Tony and and somebody called yet another pinker said thank you. And if you don't like the idea patron and you want to do it three pipe hell you can do it. Like Deynekin was the beneficiary Mr Anderson Corinne Madman David vividly in diamond from redline digital. Who helped out with L. Website Contact Damian for all your wordpress needs and also hang wine right and then what have been some others but my inbox is really full? And I'm working my way through it after the holiday site descending pile and I didn't mention you I'll get to who at once I get through this clogged up. INBOX now the counting towards the end. I think we're in the home. Straight Camera Alley has written a book like math epidemic and the premise of the book is that many of the world's leading organizations are run by senior management who probably rank highly on the PSYCHOPATHIC test. Psychopaths are all serial killers. Many of them wear a suit the uniform or work in an office the inherent ability to lie cheat and steal make them perfect manages. I have the perfect combination of heartlessness ambition. And we've all worked with all four one of them. Everyone has a story and yet we don't talk about it in the open. The media doesn't seem to have connected the existence of psychopaths in a possible reason. Why the leaders of the economy's act erratically? And with little empathy. Who is it true? That guided pied like eight hundred. Ninety thousand hasn't Dulles for empathy training or is that a myth or something. It's probably been myth but I think they'd probably deduct she have someone come in to give him some sort of training camps book. DOC is the first systematic attempt to derive a model explains Hanwha psychopaths are allowed to occupy positions of power in society. That's what camp lines. I think people have published on this topic years ago. CAMPS GOTTA theory that once he's published at somebody else will and the Taube famous as a result because he'd ride on free will and in some Harris came out with a book on freewheeling was famous for all these ideas and cameras was one of the original podcasters and then other people came along and podcast in theory but anyway I read an early draft of it many months ago. I haven't the lightest one. But it is a good book and it's got local stuff and talks about Stra and characters so we don't have psychopathic Australia. Valuating talking. Well not if you're interested in this topic a little bit it's works on. You know we did the podcast which was titled Something like whispering hiring biter miles to remember that one night there was the hill. He's got together to knock off the Alpha mouse right. Yeah so one of the things that has led to who we are as human beings is when you look at other animal species often they dominated by Alpha male who just knocks often kills or or complex a hard time to the Beta miles and everybody's spins the halt on fighting so chimpanzees competed. Bonobos are spent on fighting whereas Barnaby having sex all Tong and the whole story they if you Google on our website for the episode of the whispering Dynamos but essentially what. It's what theory always always proposing there. We tell us ready for the books. was that when the reasons that we become human was once people could communicate the Bida miles could get together and say from is. He's a real atoll and if you get a chance when he's on the edge of the glycemic will just push him off off were there's all sorts of stories where people examine primitive societies and the Alpha male. They they convinced him to climb a tree and get some coconuts away along And once he was up the tree by gathered all of these species and weapons and when he came down I beat the shit out of sight. So we as a community unity now need to shit at US some Alpha mouse sort of not literally metaphorically advocating now nine entitled to say to the Jeff Bezos of the world. Got Too much. It's too much we're going to take some off you you can do that. We can get the Sinai more bone Abo- so they call Bone Abo- stay have perpetual bonus Kodak nine now I think it'd be another reason Erica. Thanks just the thought okay and finally say Okay we might get came on at some point or on Mytalk takamine record something manageable. Turkey's you don't WanNa talk too much about the books. Nobody buys it so you just want to tease them with insane. So you do. That finally are aw. We've often had this thing about anesthesia. Palestine about the pronunciation clarification daydream. We do yes so okay let me just see where. Put that Roy wing. Tony said that he met a Polish. Aw he said that pal shy in Polish is actually Palaszczuk Palace. Chuck say rotten. Tiny always refers to her Arizona's Palaszczuk and I wasn't sure where there was another myth or not but friend the program Wine Obviously Ryan one of his Polish frames and got them to record a message in here. It is apply some president now washed took or PA. Balaj took power stroke. He owns official pretty close station pellets. Chuck pylos joke. pylos not palace powerless powerless. LSU close but it's not wash. Charles Duke Yeah there we go. I reckon. Rg we didn't even get onto museum. And and Kinda China will do that. And what do you think kind of just briefly seventeen. I did and a few more pretty badly injured. Terrible awful shocking way to die would take all the better half had a very interesting opinion of that. He said that back in the day it had to be a real out there adventure to go climbing bombing on an active volcano. Now it's just too easy to do exactly and that's the whole point that you just it's so I opened near that got mums mums and daughters. Getting burnt to death on a volcano doesn't seem to me to make a hell of a sense that you would go in New Zealand is kind of the you you know one of those epicenters of adrenaline sports now. Isn't it in world tourism. Are you aware of the insurance arrangements in New Zealand. All the government covers. You just read about this today. Is that part of the international tourism promotion that if something terrible happens to you the government it will figure well. It's it's a two edged sword ideals not if the volcano incident happened in Australia and it was a striking up Ryder. Basically those people would be having to go to court and SI- The operators were negligent. That should have known about the risks. Involve that didn't warn US enough about them. That why that I signed shouldn't be legally bodies binding and uh-huh negligent. Operators should pie mate money as a result of the negligence. That's what you'd be doing in Australia in New Zealand. You don't see you constantly but instead instead the government says if your engine accident we pay for your medical in your rehabilitation but you can't see the company compensation to for Personal Law. I'm not exactly sure of what they get in terms of that sort of thing but basically it's a very different system so on the one it sounds great that you have to hand. You can't sue the company which is a bit dodgy. Well I'm not sure how much you get. And what sort of financial loss of income you might get identity exact details but on the one hand you see Australia. Businesses are very. You'd have to be obviously have insurance but you'd still be like Gee. We don't do anything risky because we could be sued for multiple millions whereas a New Zealand. Well let's run this. This cable operation enough the cable. But we won't be sued now. Obviously that's not how it works because obviously government inspectors awesome is probably other penalties for running operations that would apply. That's just a free for all but two different live looking things that the museum does have and so so. For example. A rural fire fighter in Australia is suing because of for work induced post traumatic stress disorder and in New Zealand. He would simply CY I. I had this disorder. Give me all of the therapy and treatment. I I need to privilege insight interesting system. It's very interesting but took the lawn with I said that It could lead to businesses and that sort of stuff. Just look you saying these throwing big deal when king sued. But I'm sure there'd be other rules that say if you run a dodgy operation you as a director could be personally Salihi liable under some crime or whatever Some someone some penalty town near that volcano The volcano trips were pretty important. Part of the local tourism business. I'm sure so that obviously it's not going to happen anymore. What's going to happen to the town? I wonder left it. Come up with some other. Id Nice Right. Well there's a whole bunch of things we didn't even get to Iran and payment. We'll get to then next week because they have more sort of follow up from if we're still around if nuclear bracknell around his neck nuclear weapons but still donald trump is roy. I reckon that's enough. That's pretty much I look. The chat room was up to about nineteen is thirteen stayed till the bitter rained could could on you saw in the chat room. Thank you for that. We appreciate your messages. Normally we're going to be doing this on a Tuesday night. It'll be at seven thirty Brisbane. Tom Was a Wednesday night on this occasion. But normally Tuesday. Although I've got another granddaughter coming coming along very soon which might interfere but it's anyway. We'll very fertile family. You've reduced seems to be so anyway. Have a look on the facebook page and follow us. Unlike US and try to update you is to win the next Bumblebee thirty Quinta which is a strategy and eastern standard time not USTRALIAN daylight saving time so I think Brahmin probably compiled cookies Victorian. She gets a bit early but she hanging in for walking on your Brahmin or thank you dear listener. Tell your friends about us soon. Share the love and we will talk to you next week block now thanks very much bunny by everyone. Further notice here faced I glove. Congratulations Sean. Foyers of entertaining and informative podcasts. Twelfth Wolfman a not feel wise counsel you'll comrades would have argued in ever decreasing circles until eventually disappearing up their own.

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Episode 267  Clive Palmer, QAnon and The Commons

The Iron Fist and the Velvet Glove

1:59:55 hr | Last month

Episode 267 Clive Palmer, QAnon and The Commons

"Suburban, eastern Australia an environment that has over time evolved some extraordinarily unique groups of happy. But today we observe small tribe akin to a group of Mick that gathered together a talk a small mound to watch question and discuss the current events of their city, their country and their weld at large. Let's listen keenly observed this group fondly known as the Iron Fist and the velvet glove. Is. Welcome. Back, delays now the. Gloves podcast where up to episode two, hundred, Sixty, seven we've got your teeth into the sixty year of the podcast. Rattling along and as always there's plenty to talk their knees, politics sex and religion that sort of stuff that you're not supposed to talk about at a dinner party. Wear bright enough to candidates here on this podcast. If you're brave enough, sit back and listen. If you're watching live, let us know say hello, the chat room. That's good. It looks like maybe not everything's working on it looks like facebook and Youtube or working I'm worried it's not streaming too soon. Anyway, we'll see how we can. Of Course Trevor Aka I the feast with Menia as always having returned from. Sabbatical the particle son Velvet. Glove. Scott. Get get get listeners and yes for those that are still county I'm still on the. Thank you to our job seeker program. And pull the twelve main greetings earthlings. Is Not that. Good. Range of topics and We're GONNA stay catered for as long as we can, but we won't get towards the end so relaxed if you've got. Lane and. Wayne. says. So. Talk a little bit back. A little bit light, lighter it. It'll be ovid freeze nine for a little while. So so that'll be nice. Rights. I up. Well, we're. GonNa talk about Clive. Palmer. Q. And on a little bit trump and maybe. The Commons and freedom and liberty and identity and whiteness and Blah Blah. Blah. That's the sort of rough agenda ahead of us. Clive. Palmer and W. A.. So I said to the boys. Did you guys know much about what's going on with? Claus Power? I've read a Fabian on, but I'm not gonNA comment on it because he is famously thisiis. said. So, Actually before we started recording said to the boys look defamation morning on this one. If Claude Palms involved, we have to be really careful about what we say because that guy is not GIS so So concerned e listener if you ever start a podcast of your own, you think you could you could be sued for defamation and even say something defamatory you could find yourself at the end of the lawsuit just because somebody doesn't like what you've said and shut you up so. The good news is on immune from defamation you know that Yeah, you've put everything in your night. Never. When I was in law school can't kind of third or fourth year school for lawyers and he was teaching US trust accounting had denied the basics of double entry trusted Canyon said try and he said at the time by the way, don't own anything in your own nine because there's a lawyer could be sued in your home I've never heard anything except a little bit superannuation and that is separate under the bankruptcy laws so they can go. To leave you. On this podcast. So it's right. So That's how that works. But what did you get onto it? So Clive Palmer So what's going on over there? He's suing the western strain government in. This is an interesting one I reckon because. I- Szekely. Going back to two thousand two. Palmer in the then premier Geoff Gallop created. Head an agreement, and there was an act putting into place. The basically reflected that agreement the on all Processing Mineralogy Pty Ltd Agreement Act. In basically guy. Legal Force to estate commercial agreement that they'd come to and. What this agreement said was that Pama it was really generous. Palmer could come up with proposals for morning projects, including transport ports and shipping, and the minister in W I was obliged to either approve these proposals or give his approval subject to conditions which had to be reasonable. and. And critically. If. The minister imposed conditions then Palmer could have the ministers conditions. Reconsidered in a compulsory arbitration and the arbitrator decision on their reasonable reasonableness would be binding. So. Basically Palmer could slap on the table. He's my proposal for. Mining and whatever I wanna do on these lanes. And the government had to say, yes or no when with these conditions and then he could turn off to I single aperture inside. Well, let's just unreasonable lies conditions and the government's then at the mercy of the arbitrator and that would be common loss I. So do you listen to? You can in commercial agreements have this arrangement where you say if we have a dispute, we will go to arbitration rule than through the court system but the Russian roulette like you never know what an arbitrator is to sign and. What it seems in this class is that. They approved a proposal put down some conditions Pama win had them reviewed and? And the guy reviewed it ended up being I like judge I? Think so. Any. It's sacred. We don't know what the conditions were. We can't read them. But it looks like. The arbitrator said, we'll the condition you put on this are unreasonable and so Palmer's bicycling enforcing his rod to do this sort of exploration and undertake this work. And And he signed will the government Are, could have been operational earning revenue by two thousand and sixteen to twenty and you I may for all of the money that I missed out on in the previous for us and. Some back in the envelope reckoning people are coming up with a number of thirty billion dollars and that's why Westralian government is going shit like. A lot of money exactly and side I've basically passed an act that says, you know that act we agreed to way back when which sort of confirmed as commissioner. Arrangement. Pretend. It never existed in completely wiped off the books and it's completely exempt from freedom of information and all of our actions that completely exempt from Clive Palmer having any raw to do anything against us in relation to this at all like a really wide ranging reversal of the act despic-, cly. Wipe pet Clive Palmer's rights in relation to those agreements. It's interesting. Isn't it that they can pass a law to revoke a previous law? Yeah. So might disappear in effect yes. Well as a sovereign. Sort of state you can basically Mike whatever laws like provided. The constitution that you've agreed to says you can't. So if the Commonwealth was sort of. Taking a y property from people, it has to pay fair value under the constitution, but if a state does that and after. A state can effectively. On areas that it has pair can. Basically make whatever laws it wants to at any time and change its modern anytime. They kind of it seems like the lower is eventually W I should be ICAI but. But that had to pass a really extraordinary act in order to become. What was a bad deal? This is the problem Clive Palmer. Strikes up a deal with. A state government and says. I. Want to do exploration do these works. Cut. The deal at that like it should never have been done in the first place and. What's reasonable passing the state, the holder of the Commons talk about the Commons lighter. But the owner of the Commons was prepared to give up to some. Entity an arbitrator to decide what's reasonable. It's fairly rare thing to happen though isn't it an abdication of responsibility in terms of passing a law to of a common earlier? What happening now to. What's happening now is quite extraordinary, the live and just. Watching it but they neither sort of matijas character, the cameras and the bicycling cycling. We'll. If we leave any skinny window either at all, he'll find a way through it. Yeah. So they're leaving nice on turned in their efforts say but just really poor by the state government this sort of gets back to. The Commons light but. Giving up mineral royalties. I reckon it so. It's sided full a current generation. If. They're gonNA take the money the royalties and just use it on current Expenditure. Then I think it's theft from future generations certainly short term sinking like you shouldn't be able to take what belongs to everybody. Multiple Generations and why? You shouldn't be allowed to. Future generations are going to say, Hey. Should put that money into a fund and whatever. Income generated from it by all means us on recurrent spent expanded you like norm I did with it and that's exactly what I was. What I was leaning towards is that no I did that within north, sea oil world as and that sort of stuff it went into a sovereign wealth fund. Now, every new agent is technically millionaire because the government invested very wisely and now we're getting ready for once oil was no longer worth anything. That's going to be a wall off yet but still. Should always be a minister for future generations who was somebody that says hang on a minute. Speaking on behalf of future generations, what you're doing stinks. With a bit more long-term vision like where we have a human rights act where we cited governments are you can't do this because you'll breaching a fundamental human rights. Human Rights if you're going to have that should be Our current generation stealing from generation boy. Selling off what belongs to the Commons? Does it sound a little bit like that woman who recently? Tried to sue the federal government for her future lost earnings in her future investment earnings that she. Climbed would not realized due to his. Lack of action on climate change do you remember that one was just freelance ago? Some woman a few weeks ago. Claim that the federal government. Climate policy was inadequate and that she was going to lose potential future earnings from her investments to federal government inaction. Yeah, and she is I believe what I read was she was taking the federal government to call. Well, that's one of the problems with the trans-pacific. Partnership. Is that these international companies who have I'm right and we say will you can't do that. We've changed their mind. We're not going to lay off fracking. Input hand up and say, well, now I want compensation 'cause I n that. Bob In the chat rooms has a few things. But at the end says cameras just doing businesses wide like he always does I suspect you did right he is but you gotTa Stop Him. That's the thing a radio I guys like Parma because they will take whatever they can get. If you do not regulate these people, they will take whatever they can get for themselves without paying value to the rest of us. That's true. Right so that's the Clive Palmer issue that's going to be in the courts for quite a while see how that pans out. What's the latest on his challenge to wis tried his heart border was defeated. It was. That was. A challenge was defeated Western government one that one right on the basis that the. The judge I guess who would have been presiding over that I'm not sure if he was just a single judge extra remember something about his i. think the judge ruled that it was. The most effective way. To protect the W. I citizens from. The virus being transmitted. From another part of Australia access. To close the because we previously talked again about the constitution and the Constitution said, there should be freedom of movement between the states on the face of it. You would think we'll let me put up a border, but the high said, well, it depends if you've got a situation then reasonable condition. We'll be allowable and. I still think it's debatable policy and. I watched a little bit of the drums I know. going. Against my usual policy these but. Really. I think it was between. As, took my clothes off to take a shower high k sort of time. Don't want to put bad images, human people but. It was just ten minutes or so I watched it and The slow undress. But they were talking about it and there was some people. Relating some very heart wrenching stories about people who live, for example, on the the Queensland New South Wales border in the western part. Yes. Like in the Midwest and for for a lot of those people, Brisbane and other regional cities like Toowoomba. Are they are they go to. Metropolises. not, toowoomba's metropolis but Brisbane in the Gulf coast is and that's where a lot of them go. They send the kids they go for medical and dental services to Brisbane or the Gold Coast. These borderline new south. Wales regional. Area. And some of them have got kids for example, they might live a in that area in land they send their kids to boarding school in. Toowoomba for example So the kids can't go or they can't send their kids to school, Glenn. There are other people who have. Like elderly family members on the on the wrong side of the border who are dying or who have died and they can't visit them. They can't attend funerals. Is All kinds of issues and these areas where the virus has barely touched them. You know and yet they are subject to the same rigid not crossed the border rules and it does seem very very poorly thought out I have to say and. In reality in contemporary, Australia those borders virtually nonexistent for their most of the time. I. Get on my house here I. Think Victoria should be excised from the rest of the country. It should be locked off until they get the numbers Dan Really Lar-? However, I'm not one hundred percent convinced on on keeping the border between Queens New South Wales. I am not at all convinced me at keeping a hardboard between the Northern Territory South is trying here in Western Australia. That's nonsense Tasmania to. I can fully appreciate why you gotTa Keep Victoria locked away and you've got to keep them at you got to keep them from mixing with us but I'm not convinced of the other borders being closed you. and. I know it's extremely popular and I'm. Probably to get some people's hackles up I, honestly don't believe that we should. Keep that border with New South Wales because New South Wales has got their daily can't into belie teen Neta. Yeah. But even Victoria mildly in Melbourne isn't it's mainly in Melbourne but you've got A. Well, then you would have people on the edge of Melbourne. I can't get my kid into school who's on the other side of that border like wherever you set up a border. You probably have even more border issues. But at least I would have. Great justification they would say we have detected so many cases of covid nineteen in this area therefore, you are subject to the restrictions, but for people living why out in the sticks who haven't seen a case of covered, it seems grossly unjust to restrict their movement across the border because it's an imaginary border. One of the jobs of applaud for embar by. said. Well, I'm not going to get in there for an interview because if I come back here, going to be locked away for four. And they said, okay. So we better do something by Zuma said yes. I said the first time I actually meet you in person be assuming that on the successful candidate and we all laughed and that sort of stuff. Sir, not next to you. So well, I mean there is a border, a of design new tweet heads. Get saw. Two weeks ago, and you can walk across that border. Absolutely no problem there's nobody checking it's just the chicken cows. So the sort of our wander two kilometers into youth Lyles, you can get back and forward with a particular permit. So this really need to extend that. To some people in the western areas where maybe. A western area fifty kilometer wide town is really as if it's right on the border, a little bit of adjustment should have there. I think on reasonable I'm happy to keep at Maesteg vials. Until like really get it under control. Sign and what about that poll about you send us a link to the poll. Serving straightens on on what they thought about keeping people out of strider and all that stuff. Yeah interesting again. Didn't. Keep a copy of that one with me but. From memory. People have pretty much in five lockdowns and border controls and keeping people out of Australia. Even Australians trying to return to Australia something like two-thirds. I think it was of the people surveyed said they were happy to Cape Australians trying to get home wrought well, not even let them quarantine. Well, I didn't know but they said you know there are asked, are you happy about keeping foreigners and returning Australians at the country? To said, yeah, that's fine. Yeah. It's pretty shocking. Really isn't it? Well. The hard part now is actually leaving the country. No I've got an article here. Where says the Federal Government is forwarding? The nines of Australians have applied for permission to leave the country during the coronavirus pandemic. To border force. And chopped astronomy told. About striking about alarming letters, I have received from the Department of homeland phase after applying for an exemption to travel abroad to visit sick relatives or to take up scholarships or blah. Blah so. Basically, we've got pretty much an outbound travel ban waiting citizens from lever effectively prisoners with that exemption from a bureaucrat. So. This guy said he was rejected wasn't allowed to leave narration was given. There's no wider Jason done in secret country is this. I feel I'm in jail with no parole mentioned for crime ever committed. And that's extended until. October twenty fourth and he said he would pay for to tracking bracelets for my ankle and went from the hand if that's what they want the same year that was the guy who wanted to visit his mother in law in the Ukraine something and he offered he said whatever whatever you require us to do human his wife there like in the early seventies I think from memory. Retired they have enough money to travel to Europe and spend a few months traveling around Europe, which was the plan and he said when we return, we are more than happy to pay for whatever it takes hotel quarantine for two weeks. Ambulance to the hotel whatever he said we'll pay whatever it takes, but we want us. Should be Atlantic. You'll have with you there. You'd have guessed that the mother-in-law would be quite elderly and they might not get another chance to visit her I'd be happy to people that. Lee Five grain here I. In this account to pay your. You'll quarantine when you came back and guys in I'd be happy to that. Thought that guy was quite willing to do something. He was refused as you say. That don't have to give a justification. They just say, no, you can't go and it's it's crazy. It does seem a little bit crazy. There's also that case in south, Australia that the the black wanted to go into Victoria to burris mom. And he was terrible you can't come back to South Australia and he says, well, how Long said Warren is how long's the pace streak? What they were doing was. Slamming the door shot on one of their own citizens saying we come back. That's for sure to be able to come back through warranting exactly and that's the whole point I mean I agree with you trevor I think you've got if you coming back from Victoria, you should be able to go into a hotel quarantine for a fortnight or a month or whatever. And then after that, you can listen to the community. Interesting taunt imagined twelve months ago. That we'd be having this conversation. You know what tournaments going to toss look you can't leave the country. You can't move you the state like these sorts of things. You. Just. It was impossible to imagine given government official a little bit of power and the authoritarian emerges just bursts out of them that that's true but also. Pandemic. Extraordinary Situation extrordinary. You've got to have extraordinary Tom's. For extraordinary measures. And I do believe that this is one of those Tom that is extraordinary and therefore you have to be. You had to be forgiving of a some more authoritarian responses from government. However I, do agree that it's not wrong that. Date injuries has gotta get back to parliament to us. Declaration of emergency extended. That's ridiculous why it's not an emergency for. The Sky's falling. Literally is cross. This is the. Do agree that he should have to go back to parliament and justify himself every six months or every three months or something like that. which is quite reasonable to expect him to go front pollen and and give a raise in why he wants the declaration extent. Did he object to that or? He didn't object to it. and. He can keep extending it. For Up to six months at a time. Y-. Hi It's a democracy. If unite like Victoria inviting that makes on I. Hope they do. It's up to the opposition to. Up to the opposition, decide what they're doing instead, and for the people of Victoria to say are well next time it comes up but. You see something outrageous articles. We'll talk a bit dictator. At the end of the day he was elected and we will coming up. And if you don't like what he did, valley? Man. In. The other sort of. Angle that is when I talk about chief health ministers and You Bet, side Queensland, Chief Health Minister, but she's getting too uppity for her good. Articles lawns fly Singley basically, she makes a recommendation to the premia and it's up to the premier like so it's really have your argument with the premier because as a chief medical officer she has. The hills of Queensland as her objective, and she doesn't have to worry about the economy or other things. That's not a job. She just gives health advice and then it's up to the premiere to to y up that health advisor with other stuff. So I think it's very unfair. decided the. To somebody like the chief medical officer you're too uppity and you'll becoming totalitarian. She doesn't pass the laws. She doesn't make him to just makes recommendation it's up to the politicians. So silly blindside. So blind. By the politicians but I think he if the if the Queensland opposition wasn't so pathetic I'd vote for limit the next election now, you can't pull because. They back away from Tracy's too dino and and that's precisely what I was discussing this with a friend, the other day and said. As bad as the Queensland live or government is the opposition is worse and volunteer sister dying is the issue that top of top well, a lot of people will be very happy with what Pal Dunn's. Absolutely, A. Played a lot of people are very happy that she slammed the border shot think. Yeah. I could understand her saying if you come from Sydney fan come into Queensland because Sydney has a problem, however, Sydney is beginning to get it under control and. That's why I'm just not convinced of having these border between Queensland and. Victoria on one hundred, percent confidence should be shut up and we should keep them out of the way as Landon said before he says he he. He said, keep Damon may there I feel so This I offer to. Fill up. Most of. Toronto and Queensland at the moment not exactly considered a little bit sites. France crossroad sell the house and got a really prospered processor giant. And I said to the agent rental net we found out an ex place in the rental win. Real Estate said, well, we've got one place you could kind of rent that might say you and that's A. Like because a lot of people have Irene town if they've got a choice. The hanging in Brisbane survey not much rental property around. You know it might not be exactly cheap, but it's still going to be cheaper than Sydney Melbourne. Right. All right. We've got a message from lane and hide bottom line how hard it is. To come to that one year. He says account the original message was is something. It's very hard to come back into Australia for lots of constantly cancel caps on incoming passengers because of the problem landon, you've got to remember that you've got to cap the number of people coming back into the county. I think it's four thousand awake afford as an odile something like that because you've got a limited number of hotel rooms, the ICAN quarantaine them in but he says flights, muscles, vengeance and retribution from Bangkok to Brisbane was eight thousand dollars but landon, that's the laws money but not. Really. Is Rolling in. Paid taxes in ten. Years. chickenfeed Salena Sankar come on. It'll be worth for Cheryl. Right Yeah Nick's topic. Queuing on. We need to get ahead. On I. Think it's just going to become more topical. Think have you ever read anything bottom or looked up done recent? I never have. You'll need some headphones on Scott because bad to fly. A little bit of. Queuing on clip so I'll just probably this name we'll talk. Cuban. On. The hands. The Cunanan Movement has appears to a lot of followers. Can you talk about what you think about that and what you have to say to people who are following this movement right now we'll ever know much about the movement other than I. Understand. They liked me very much. Appreciate. But I don't know much about the movement. Of the theory of is this belief that you are secretly saving the world from this. Cold. Head files and cannibals does that sound like something you are behind I haven't I haven't heard that but. Is that supposed to be a bad thing or a good thing? If if I can help save the world from problems, I'm willing to do it. I'm willing to put myself out there, and we are actually where saving the world from the radical left. Philosophy that will destroy this country and with this country is gone. The rest of the world would follow. A good lawn from him said supposed to be I. Think he's seventy from sinus and and. Children aged anyway. Understand why the gentlest didn't ask him is there a secret cabal of child molesting sightedness sack? He was a pathetic question. Hold out in a pizza shop or something. Yeah. That was the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Yeah so anyway. So Q., and on. A worldwide is a worldwide cabal of well according to q in on the essence of the theories. There is a worldwide cabal of Satan worshipping pedophiles who rule the world essentially, and they control everything they control politicians and they control the media like control. Cover up their existence and I would've continued ruling the world we're not for the election of President Donald Trump. Donald, trump in this conspiracy theory is all about this evil cabals wrongdoing. But one of the reasons that Donald Trump was elected was to put an end to them bicycling, and now we would be ignorant of this behind the scenes battle of. Trump and the US military. WE'RE NOT FA Q. and Q is basically a guy who posted on four chain and he lied a move to gain. And longtime listeners will remember we did a thing on fortunate I chain probably three years ago with my friend who came on one of these crazy. Boards where you post honest anonymously and gets a very dark and crazy and full of wacky stuff and the guy he did the killing in New Zealand was big into itchy. Raw So Q.. Poe stuff in there, and he reveals details about the secret behind the scenes battle and secrets about what the ball is doing and also. Sort of upcoming arrest events re at these. So initially he was. Bit More, specifically at what was happening and none of them come. True. So he's got to be more vague over time and followers of Cuban on believed there is an imminent event now in as the storm in which thousands of people members of the cabal will be arrested possibly sent to Guantanamo by prison. Would have face military tribunals and the US. Military will brutally Taika the country. The result of the storm will be salvation and Utopia on. What does that sound like to you? Very much like. The apocalypse which precedes the rapture. Scuttle. SORT. Of theme happening they did you know that the rapture has been predicted by one group for this coming September? Probably an American yeah I want you ready for. Whatever. Was Ready. PEOPLE DISAPPEAR THERE'LL BE. A big deal for leave behind Apolo clause doesn't it? I'm not sure I've never seen it happen. But I've seen lots of cartoons with that theme with other people who are left behind jumping with joy saying. They've gone. So. You'd think lobby. Thomas but there's a lot a lot of people who actually follow this nonsense and it's quite influential on way too many people. Persons won the Republican primary in the state of Georgia for a Congress sate who actually thanked Cunanan that sorta she acceptance speech. Because he's a Republican in Georgia she's guide to get elected, which means we have now sint. The first democratically elected Cunanan representative into the Congress of the. Show is different code words that you can use I mean obviously big into the sort of pedophilia taught allegations. They're they're into this storm business that there's going to be an awakening. In this sort of these key words, there's even a sort of our mantra that they use inside. So people sort of identified themselves. With a dog whistle of sort of Q. Like. Woods that other McEwen on follows will pick up on. One of us he's onto it O'Shea onto it because they'll refer to the storm and the awakening and and these sort of key words. The rest of us sort of every our head. But for the Cuban on folk, they're always looking for these things they continually trawling free stuff and trying to find signs of of what's happening and looking for keys a clues from Q.. That's got a very religious. Yes. Fly The to it hasn't again does so. Had is that relate to Australia in my ask? In no way at all, let's hope that. No, you did wrong. Okay. Unfortunately. Remember our prime minister tend to cost evangelical of that one. He's ripe for this sort of thing. So. In Australia, a significant astrology propounder of Cunanan conspiracy theory is a family friend of Scott Morrison and his wife So there was a guy who has had the twitter handle burned spy thirty four who amassed twenty, one, thousand twitter followers and he was like. tweeting daily on q a Non stuff. In Australia was kind of like a bit of a leader of the Cunanan. Movement in Australia is his identity. Yes. So So I'll get to that second but basically. This guy burned spy, his wife, his best night's with Scott Marlins. And I would like bridesmaids at each other's funeral. Funeral Waiting thank you. From the funeral they will. At each others weddings and in fact. The wife of burn spy works some here in. In Morrison's office I'll get to that exactly what the rallies side is an article from. The Guardian that have gone, but then I've got an article from crikey. So. remember the apology for. We had the. inquiry into institutional responses to child sexual abuse? And Scott Morrison two months out becoming prime minister. He gave a speech with an apology to the survivors and what he said was quite. Look at the galleries. Look at the look at this place you'll see men and women from every walk of life of every generation, everybody elaine crushed, abused, discarded, and forgotten. Quite, the crimes of ritual sexual abuse happened in Schools Churches Youth. Group Scout tropes off inge's Blah Blah Blah. So he used the words ritual sexual abuse, that's an odd combination. Isn't it in sexual abuse? Yes. We all know that happened but ritual sexual abuse aesthetic maybe institutional maybe but ritual. is so for the rest of us, that's gone I heads but not in the Cunanan live John. He's He's killing on. because. It's got this idea of pedophilia is a ritual. Satanic Undertaking, being going on and finally the forces of good trump and morrison are are onto it, and there's GonNa be the storm in the beginning and. I. So, anyway, this friend of Scott. Morrison's client. He has no. Influence, he never talks to Scott Morrison about. In on stuff but according to crikey. They've got copies of correspondence between this guy and another guy which. was done on some encrypted channel, but the other Guy Dob demean basically handed it over to crikey and said look and the allegation is that. That this burn spy. Thirty four whatever his name was. had. Actually been encouraging Scott Morrison to use the words ritual and got very excited and his son got very excited. Quote. Great Moment tweeted the Son Jesse you know Hashtag the great is in full swing when the Australian Prime Minister Mentions Hashtag ritual abuse. Big. Step in a good direction for Australia Scott is a patriot. This is the stuff that is going on. Like the United States doesn't. Does. Just follow everything. And Yet, different other Cuban on people around the world looked at a prominent Cunanan figure in the US was thrilled. Do My ears deceive me? Win. The new Prime Minister Ustralia Scott Morrison must be a ride in the HASHTAG storm. There we are listener. That's that's. Where we are, with queuing on industry. And Might get an increased migration from United States. Coming months who knows but. It's a cult and. What's going forward and what will catch on like wildfire is it makes people feel connected to something important that other people don't yet now about Molko House providers feeling of being special. And there's no self correction prices within the group since the self reinforcing true believers are immune to correction fact checking account of speech. So. Let's go as cultish quality and follows attempt to solve riddles presented in Q. Drops by connecting them to trump speeches and tweets and other sources. They just continually scaring transcripts and looking for hints. Of people admitting. What's going on? Yeah Obviously. It's very addictive for this end. The sad thing is that wouldn't rate normal people get Dan some terrible rabbit holes with this tidily caught up with and people are losing family members like you lose a family member to scientology or something like that and Sania in read it there's a key on casualties croup it's got fourteen thousand members share stories about people. I've watched tune into tin foil hat conspiracy theorists and and had to get them out of it so. Yeah we. It's funny on the set level, but it's also quite tragic. Another isn't it? Up Beyond finding these things. Funny. Said and dangerous and Yeah. Yeah Yeah I think sad and dangerous a better description than funny. But understand we both coming. Crackdown poll facebook will I looked on twitter to try and see Ben's by thirty four and see what he had to sign in preparation for this podcast? No longer they're gone taken off. Ice Book and twitter have been doing lots to. Basically, bad a lot these accounts but we know how consistent facebook and twitter art with censorship that we yeah say very, very selective. Should I be attempting to take? I'm. Some of these groups well, just. Because the thing has always been savvy alike provide you not hurting anybody that's. Cunanan is an elaborate conspiracy theory alleging that trump is secretly having the world. The group has been linked to civil violent criminal incidents including a train hijacking kidnappings a police chase in a murder. News article. I sort of get people Hot. DOPP. Do Some wacky things. Support. The burst into their pizza shop with a Ross run anywhere said like Shami the downstairs races there isn't I danced days room in these. What's behind that? Brim comedy says, Berm Kevin that happened with nothing. was genuinely shocked also couple of rounds into the ceiling. But he later when he realized that he made a terrible mistake I, believe he was a little bit remorseful, unbeliev. So yeah. Let's cue in on, but it's not the League wacky conspiracy theory group around by any means is that there are more than a few of Catholic Church. And in fact, I saw a cartoon this often you may have seen it. It's that cartoon which a priest comes to the door. Right? Be Young boy answers the door he turns around and says, MOM, there's a man at the door in a pedophile. Well there in the news in the last couple of days because on different archbishops have said well. This vaccine that's since organized because it's Feet yes. He's. He's also some sort stem cells. Sorry better guy find a different vaccine. It's an ethically talented vaccine. To let of garbage. We're going to get in the kind of rabbit hole. But I really hype that the vaccine story wasn't just debate up by the PM? I. Really Hope that we are going to have a vaccine. It will be widely available Baljit live next year. Because if we do have a widely available vaccine by July of next year they. will be out of the sheet probably by December of Knicks. Chief. In the chat room die strikes is facebook and twitter are private companies like in Ben who likened should? chewed to my time any semblance of credibility here he does. Donna strikes up to the point where you've got like a monopoly situation. Then it gets a bit trickier but for. This sort of thing I think right there. Do. You sell it to the government does. A. Monopoly monopoly situation. Then it gets tricky if you'RE BANNING PEOPLE IT GETS Beyond your private rights to to. Cross. This next artist. I still believe that does strangers right there it is that private companies they can. I am on this particular issue on this particular moment but. Because this playing platforms for killing on but. The. Fewer people can see it the better. Right. Still in trump. I was watching Tom. Can I say one more thing on that topic something I read about. facebook. Banning people was that. Somebody pointed out there inconsistency because the. Religious leader of Iran the Ayatollah. Khamenei or whatever nine minutes sorry. I can't pronounce the proper Persian. He issued some very inflammatory rhetoric after Israel and you. Recently. Did a kind of a peacedale. And the IRA issued some very. Inflammatory rhetoric regarding that he wasn't bad and yet. Donald Trump. was cautioned all. Toll to Mundy's man religions get a free pass I can them they? They said that because he was a national leader He gets a very punk gain or. You get a bit more latitude. So basically, he could he could say something like you know Israel should be destroyed and Jews pushed into the ocean. There is a public they would allow it. Well, there is a, there is a balancing act between the. One of the reasons to allow publication would be public interest, and if you've got the actual leader of a country sighing something that certainly increases the public interest as opposed Burns by thirty four in his underpants and these mothers bismirchment who like the public interest that's a stereotype. Yeah exactly. Siri I'm sure it wasn't any. So I can I can get that. The world leader gets. Gets more latitude because the public interest level increases Trump. I this Nation Watch. Planet America. Tell you what it's pretty good. It was very good and they've got a podcast called PIP. Yeah Which is It's not official as part of the planet America thing you've got to. Try and have a link for in in the show nights because they not led to cool the planet America podcast but it's called and I really get into some stuff about America that into in the normal it's very good. Sometimes, very interesting and they. They also get some quite interesting interviews. So definitely in the lead up to this November election. Definitely. Tune into those. It's very good. Kid onto one particular thing I said about but on a different. Log Pesos rating abaout trump's chances in the upcoming election and a mentioned before. That the POWs cannot be trusted because people are not honest answering. Powell's particularly trump supporters dial side of, for Biden in actually trump and. I think I tell you last time. Skew. Knives. And that guy said. Doing Paul that why? He's within striking distance. He's not that far off trump. and. The other thing is on his blog post. I saw it basically said that if trump holds onto the states that he's leading in now. In if he can win Florida Wisconsin and Arizona he'll get reelected. He's I. Only got to pick up three states from where reasoning on. Florida Wisconsin and Arizona and if you think of all the shit that's going on in. America. In terms of covered. In terms of. The crazy. Sort of. defunding of police. And if you look at the postal, service people could actually vote and all of these things have got to be worth several percentage points there. It's entirely conceivable. He could pull it off. We definitely could, and there was another incident yesterday in Wisconsin where police shot a black American guy in the back. Did you see the video was on the news I didn't see the shooting I. Looked for the video but I only saw him as he was on the ground is quite shocking really because. He apparently was carrying a knife and he walked around a car presumably his own car. And, there was a several police new buys pointing guns at him saying. put down the knife owes something to resign counts with these. Police he walked around the car. He didn't make any action towards the please open the car door, and as he was climbing in the couple of police came from behind him and tried to grab him and he basically struggled and was trying to get into his car shot him in the back. I mean he wasn't even facing them. You know he was trying to get into his car. and point blank. Range. Shot Him in the back he didn't die apparently but. And then there was rioting in the streets of that town and hold a lot of small businesses again, looted and burned you know. It's not a good look for Biden when that happens is because trump comes out of this sort of law and order president. And that could swings Wisconsin from. Trump good to picture that he. That could well be saving good citizens of Wisconsin from Hangup Lepetit? Trump's supporters and be put off by it and. then. I didn't. Think that'd be put off by the looting. Burning that that will switch. That will help them onto trump. Can't. Point not the shooting nine shooting. So the looting and burning that came. As a response. From the police stuff if this shooting mark encourage move black. Sorry more African American citizens to vote. which might offset the surge that Donald trump could get. See Wisconsin or read Steiner is it blue? On at night but whatever it is in the polls he's behind. So He has to read win that sign. She must've podcast listen to our American because you know the top things I did listen to they basically all trump. And they were saying that. The cognitive dissonance boys are listening to this morning. One of them whose name escapes me say. So he said what he's hoping for is that it's not just a baiting is a route and then he is completely here. I don't think they're getting the same information you'll get it. Yeah. And who knows could be completely right you just you can't trust Paul's anymore exactly signing. The economists has got some polling system that they Reagan's accurate. And they predicted trump would win last time but there wasn't published because it was the only one that was predicting trump would win on to embarrass the publish it exactly on. So neon, I've gone refund and then sort of stuff American? Bonds Ninety, percent chance victory Percents. Stink Counter Harris is. I thought she's actually more progressive and left wing than originally thought. So if if they get in and Bawden collapses aw, she comes in and then you lift wing. Could be relatively progressive. She was quite hard on her prosecutions. Button there was some mitigating circumstances. Some other things that meant she wasn't actually that bad quarter progressive voting record. So she's actually more lefty than I. thought she wants. I think he can forgive her reputation as a prosecuted because she was there to prosecute the Laura was as it was written. So yeah. been understand but there are descriptions. So there's one way. I think there's like a third strike you're out rule and. That was a shocker. He was pretty tough on the poor guy in that one that was a shocker. A whole bunch of on Zeke can just use your discretion who's virtual lot prison sentence for three relatively Mina. Criminal. Offenses so So I was listening to podcasts. Opening arguments and. And or maybe it was serious inquiries. EILLY. But anyway, giving a bit of a rundown of Mitre same a little bit more lift wing in progress with the author what she wants. So we'll see what happens. The chatrooms gone off really well, actually on you in a chat room, there was one good. Bacteria Morrison's, announcement. The vaccine and Martin Featherstone says Morrison's announcement wasn't beat up these off. Of Good come into naked on God's keep coming. Can't get to all them but we'LL WE'LL TRY TO Ross Ross's she's not locked it all. Be The progressives but. It's not progressive enough for the progressive. And she's to progressive conservatives. We'll see. One thing I would say about her is she was selected for two reasons. She's female. She's not. We says its exactly what well, that would be too key reasons a bunch of bunk amongst a bunch of others. But that you did right, they would have been k. fact. Isn't it? So if you listen to some Selected. Because white I have known because. He has appearance, of stability. You can say the same thing that lies will have you ever wondered why Baden was selected by a bomb because surely would have had a range of you know more exciting. Ring Shoring why two gentlemen for the people who already at this? Radical. Guy It was going to. Exactly. So that's the whole point of presidents. But often they picked because they. They will pick up a a segment of the population that you didn't think you were going to get like. Sometimes, we'll pick a vice president. WHO's. Good strong support in the south maybe the presidential candidate doesn't say they didn't pick her. To pick up votes that they didn't think they're already getting. You know what I mean like she's black and she's female but you could say well in they're going to get is votes anyway like. There's this you could argue that. I read something about the democratic. Convention of sorts. Apparently, the speeches didn't touch at all on policies they're all just. Fluffy rhetoric about but nobody wants policy little girls looking up to her and stuff like that. I mean for goodness sake pull nine. Knows nobody cares about policy they should but they don't. So you've got to give them what they want. You have to sell them a story and. Say Nell in the chat room says, was it not conceivable? She was selected on merit I agree with you I think. I think she was selected on merit. Merit, would pie pot that if you had exactly the sign narrowed in Scottsd- in another seventy, five year old white guy, they would go on there wouldn't have picked him. So it's part of a package narratives certainly part of it but. That sort of diversity issues. Absolutely Playa Pot into. The have to play that game after for my money I liked that other female. Candidate considering the one who lost two legs in Iraq she was in the military. Just forget her name now but anyway, not rice years navy ferry now not rice tammy. Tammy someone. One anyway she was. In the military and she was a helicopter pilot or something and got shot down and lost a league's wrong. So she she gets around wheelchair but shoot sounded like a you know just reading about her personal philosophy and policies. For my money she sounded like a good. And she was not. Purely, why do fools come up with an island next time? On the one. Weird. Side or not? Well, we'll from plummet the planet the planet podcast. Look up for pep planet extra podcast at that. So. Basically, talking about this and that quiting there was a report. Of the Select Committee on Intelligence United States Senate on Russian active measures, campaigns and interference in the two thousand sixteen US election volume five counterintelligence threats vulnerabilities of looked at it. D Listener, you can find this on the Internet. And you would think that's a fairly dry and uninteresting document perhaps but in it page two, hundred, Ninety, eight. They talking about trump's meeting with Russian groups and following d not the route which included the AD. Gal arrives their size sheets in the trump organization went to the Act Goldstein described the act as a bit Cirque du Soleil in a bit Verlinsky ski thrown into one. In at this point, there's a foot night number one, eight to two. Foot night one, night, two, two refers to Cohen's testimony Colin was trump's lawyer. On current talks about this meeting. And he's talking about the place called the the act and he said. This is quote of coward at least. It's a club that puts on shows and you never really know what the show is going to be in this specific case that brought a young man who was in a leotard bodysuit who to me I would diagnose him as flawed baby. And he was blind as well but he sang with Pavarotti. In. While he was singing. The song it was, I'm like God bless America Todd Song. There was a woman who was in a Thong. Bikini was lodged performing six on him while he was singing. Interesting because I was with Mr Trump at the time, it was not really applies expected to be with him and. He looked at it and may when it was finished on the this he looked at me right in the face guys. Tough way to make a living. So. Do you find yourself agreeing with trump for what? Trump shied empathy from once he actually had some is on. The in him, he could look at and. That's a tough way. Tonight cleaning. Wow. You get to trump. That's how bad things have to be before trump. Has a little bit of humanity somewhere. He does my Godson. Deal is not when you think tough they guy these people worse than union. Also, just in recent years, Steve Bannon he got arrested facing some potential child on for. Fiddling with money. Lots of people made this comment, but it's a good line. If trump really wanted hillary locked up, he should have decided. Exactly. Like. The talk you mentioned this poll about the liberal. Party in Victoria and all their takeover by the religious not was featured on sixty minutes on. Sunday. Did you watch nine but didn't get a chance to I did broad Basically had secret types and stuff concerning. The the some. Office bearer in the Victorian Liberal Party was. Getting staffers. To. on, on government paid time. To solicit new members for the Liberal Party and they were encouraged to focus on church groups. And other small community club type groups and things but. It sounded pretty nefarious. We have talked about this quite often. We have dogs. Would it be I. Suppose it all to listen to the Velvet Glove podcast. For, some of the last four years because this is happening in Western Australia and. Queensland. And we happening every way? So Carina. Alcatel was the former Federal Liberal Vice President and She told people quite. We are not crazy hod law nuts in quote. She admitted she blew up a relationship with pair broke kroger and his backers because she was furious that religious candidates were napping pre-selection pre selected by the faction but we're not crazy hardline nuts. It's it's all either for the liberal. Party give just give up on them. I thanked the patrons in a long long time so that Before we move on any. D Listener. Delays. If you've listened to twenty twenty, five episodes. And you reach the point where you're thinking I love this podcast I listen every week white. Then at that point, you need to help onto poetry on and chipping in saint us. Some money. Dollar show is all we ask and it's easy to do and it's not much and it just. Shows your support and helps cover some expenses because this doesn't happen for free. So How could they not love the indeed? Listening to have even if you hate it but you're listening really. You're getting some kind of value from a pay up into the. Thank you from way back on the fifth of February two, thousand, sixteen, the one of the original, the Best Sean. Thank you Sean Engineer and Craig and John and land and why no Jahmai Allison Steve she in his tiny wool spud Cambridge Bronwyn. Pele medic main Dominic Domenici Liam McMahon diverse. Daniel Curtin Harry Watson Gillespie Kept Doomsday. Wheat Watcher Andy. DALING. Murray Weipa Milinda at Princeton Professor Doctor Dentist Will Glen. Bill I guess Matthew Alexander Allan Poll riper thanks for your message time doing. Tara Emil Kim Brown run Donnie Darko. Clinton Riggs Given is Look I think spiked being coked. 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Views Tomorrow Morning Nov I'm just Go for or do every morning. I can't because it could take a while but it's important. I think. When we're talking about private stuff in particular. And other things we're going to get on to be lighter. pull. You would often emphasize the importance of personal freedom was Scott and I will probably emphasize the desire ability. Of Society being able to restrict that freedom for the benefit of society I knew I knew you guys were against me? That's like a common divide amongst us and that's one way. Rights or wrong like this is where we just have to agree to disagree at a certain point and just finding out where those differences are. So it's a balancing act where we recognize the importance of the other person's value. Differ on where to draw the line. So what I want to do in the next little bit is just make a case for. So I discard US Libertarian, which tight law I do it just a little bit cheap, but it is kind of because this emphasis on personal liberty. Is What's called sort of a libertarian feature. An emphasis on the individual, rather than the collected A. Little studied society that we do here, we would look at the United States of America as being one that puts a high value on that individual freedom. Whereas when we look at is in countries such as Japan, we would side I actually put a less value on that and sort of your responsibility to the collective is considered more important. That's a sort of a cultural difference. So. I mentioned in the podcast last week a couple of books that I found really good one was hanging on. When was the goodness paradox by Richard Wrangham? So? This is the one that about how we became. Domesticated as a species and this is that whole idea all about the Beta miles beating up and killing the Alphabet Baracks we developed language by the miles whisper. In rather than being subjected to the tyranny of selfish bullies. The, group could work together and actually subdue that sort of influence. And really then once you had groups that were. Internally. Unselfish let sort of selfish behavior had been subdued. then. When you look at what Mike's the groups could be quite successful. In terms of the battle against other groups whether that warfare or whether it just be surviving drought like a cooperative group. Would potentially subscribe hard times better than an uncooperative. Not, even necessarily fought against against each other, just their ability to cooperate so. The book is on to sort of described this sort of physiological things that have happened to us that main that we're kind of like a time. Little. Domesticated dog in comparison to the the wolf that. was in the. Evolved from two, hundred, fifty, thousand years ago sort of thing. That's the sort of. Idea of the book and let me just get the right page here on twenty two. So the thing about humans makes us different from other animals is. That we have the ability to accumulate cultural adaptions. We we gather cultural knowledge and we pass it onto each other. So not only are we intelligent? But we're highly collaborative and we excel at learning from each other cycled social learning. So one of the theories about why neanderthals Lost it to us in the in the battle between I'm Scythians neanderthals was although quite intelligent that didn't have the social learning and cooperation that we have so. Other animals on this planet bicycling born into the world and had some night instincts to. Eight grass run from predators and. But I really learned from previous generations. We have the ability to pass on that information. So that's a key concept from. The goodness paradox. That We. Domesticated version of what we were before, and we rely on the ability of generations to pass on information, and that makes us unique compared to other animals. And in this view of life, which is boy. died sign. That's the WANNA bat. PSYCHOPATHIC. Chickens. and. The soccer ethic chicken that's a bully is actually eating food from the other ones we've done that one on the other way. So the number of eggs lied on individual hen is not an individual trait so much as a social trite because it depends on how members of the group behave towards each other. To sign he ah, in society, the idea that anyone is self might is a fiction. We are all about writing. In a group of hands and relying on that group of hands, we are not sylphides. At all when we relying. On previous generations and what's being passed to us, and we're also relying on the environment that we will collectively creating for your success. So in rare cases, mechanisms evolved that largely suppressed the potential for disruptive forms of selection within groups making between group selection, the primary evolutionary force. For most traits of the species. So Why talk about. Selection within groups and selection between groups I. Normally, if you had bully who was a tyrant died begin with Di, won't I be doing the pride creating? I'd be the successful passer of Jane's. If circumstances such that that force is nullified three language whispering by two miles. Then what determines the the the ongoing progression of the species is how different groups? We not with each other. and. What it says if you reach a point where within groups is harmony and is not the selfish behavior then. Something magical happens. The group evolves to be cycle rapport collaborative that is transformed into a high level organism in its own right in this case, thinking of insecurities. So there's no competition within. The colony is such a very little. That rows to do and they're not really competing. Within the group what you really have is maybe I swarm of Bees Mardi competing with another swarm of as for. An area roar aura of suitable point whatever. But there's no competition within the group. It's groups of these that are. Essentially, competing against each other default on suitable spots. To you. So the sort of the group becomes an organism in its iron. Saints I'll talk more about that. So. multilevel selection theory tells us that analysis should be sanded on the unit of selection. So imagine you're biologists studying a solitary insects such as a fruit fly. You would study individual flies in relation their environment, and then you would shift to lower level such as organ sales extra. But if he was stunning a social insects such as honey. Since the colony is the primary unit of selection. That is the you would focus on. You wouldn't begin at the level of individual bees anymore than the fruit fly santus would begin at the level of organs. Studying. Days. And working. What really makes bees tick and how will group evolve in will be succeed. You look at the colony and the and the. Why the colony works rather than individual be which you would get to as a secondary matter down the track is how it works in the colony. So in a sense. In this. Colony almost an organism in its own rod in that sense. So this is a powerful refutation of Metha- of methodic logical individualism, which sites individuals should always be the center of analysis. I just put a pain in that in that. Libertarians are very much centered on. The freedom of the individual and the paramount rights of the individual at all times that if you accept, we are a social creature reliant on the cultural. Passing down through the generations. We are potentially more akin tower to a honeybee. Colony than we are a fruit fly and when thinking about us. When Scott Nah emphasizing. or at least I am put words. Collected value of the collective you have to recognize that that we're not isolated fruit flies doing. We actually exist as a very cooperative species. All forming an organism of airline. Razor is. Hot. Debatable if you get the IDEA I. Agree on. On Colony six honeybees and yes very much. So if you're studying them, you would study the colony. Absolutely. Not fucking insects I'm not saying we are beyond. Concept most of what you say I do agree yeah we. alands onto ourselves, we believe in we all social animals absolutely agree with that but it's a matter of degree. Isn't it in Jane and a matter of way you say the Individual Ins and the and the group again, it always will be but I'm just putting that in there as an idea of how to think about human beings when you talk about individual. Issues are I want to say will hanging in it at some point in the future and et discussions I'll say remember we're honey booze and and that would be short for the kind of ID's to sit on the previous ten minutes. So I pull you and agree with Margaret Thatcher when she said that there is no such thing as society then. She that was a stupid thing to say. I, mean, she had moments but that wasn't one of them wasn't one of them. That's what I was just bringing it up because the myself that sounds very much like Niagara that show. Doesn't. The other idea that it's quite another thing to say. There's no such thing as society. I don't think there are many people out there. That would agree with Margaret Thatcher that. Many people that agree with our other I. don't agree with her on that point I bet. You just. Pulling up that's. Actually. On that point. Of. Actually got. Another book. From us. Week. He Guide me previously read the book reviews we've made. Incidentally on a quarter of the lights ray the Grapes of Wrath so. That's quick. So you got onto that very small. Yeah I want to that but he had previously given the a book called. Plunder of the Commons manifest for sharing public will buy guy standing. So I really like the idea of the comments. In the comments is important when he's talking about these. Institutional issues and border closures and. Asks in Vaccines Cause, the Commons involved in. So. So. We're going to get to it, but by szekely the people who say I don't want to wear a mask and. These rules but at the same time Cy, I want to enjoy the comments. We are entitled to regulate the comments. and. So a little history on the Commons. Where we're hidden for Rodney in so. and. So Yeah actually in this book incidentally pull Scott he starts with a little bit about Margaret Thatcher because she did side, there is no such thing as society there on the individuals and families and when she was first elected as Conservative Party leader fish at a cabinet meeting, she pulled from her bag Frederick Hikes book the Constitution of Liberty. She's landed on the table and said, this is what we believe. So Hayek was A. For Thatcher and Reagan he was an economist and he said Lightly Group of economists in ninety seven hours the Monpellier on society he preceded them by decades, but he set it up. Is that he gathered them together for it. Saying he was Frederick also he was. The road to serfdom saying. And you'll say right the Constitution of Liberty Patty and he's mental was Ludwig von Mices. taught that economic value is measured and Yvonne price and if it hadn't I priced, it had no value. So that was their view and thus began a war against all organizations and mechanisms of society embodying social values that had no price. So. In this book, the Commons refers to all of our shared natural resources and it also includes the knowledge that we possess as society. So dived Bali a Commons activist. Argues including tangible will such as copyrights patents, critical infrastructure such as the Internet and government research and cultural researchers resources such as road cast wide and public spikes podcast. Now. So. That's the comments I. Think it comes the really essential thing that we need to. Think about so Thatcher and why isn't all this stuff taught in out schools you know two children they should learn these concepts. These are basic fundamental concepts for understanding Huhne's human society and how it works yeah. Yeah, we're a course on this. This is going to be. Allowed we should. School. We might be able to retire. Yeah. And Land and how. To be the principle of. So, Sounding twelve seventeen we had the MAGNA CARTA and at the same time on, it was a second document cooled the Charter of the forest. And, it lasted longer on the British statue books than any other piece of legislation I only being repealed fully repealed seven hundred and fifty four years later. That's good run. For reason read this is the details of that I haven't heard of that. Yeah. The Charter of the forest. Hit sounds like Robin Hood in. When you talk about education side the chatter, the forest basically said. You the monarchy stop taking the forest in fact, give back some of this forest that you have taken. And don't take any more and the forest is the common person. Yes. Because the king and the Lords had pretty much monopoly writer. So eat was a retaking of of the forest common and that was important for people because if our in hard times I could go into the forest get I would. Hunt for certain animals it was it was a place where you could subsist if you needed to and. Get this for generations all churches in England were required to read it out in its entirety on four public occasions. At Christmas Easter the Feast of Saint John and Sarah in the Feast of Saint Michael in autumn. You seeing a little bit. You think it's bad. Or Reading A. Yeah. I think churches bad idea but but. I don't know anything about the what was it was signed to the common papal. We have these riots the monarchy cannot take this land. You kids made to now and we're GONNA read it out four times a year. So everybody knows. And I would do this thing called the beatings with are actually gallery onto the edges of the Commons each at periodic times just to assert their right to be there into say what's that fades doing the what's that Bush doing that night and Walk Everett inside this is the common area very important. One is. Gone. So. tonight's principles ignored but are relevant. It's about ally of living as an individual and society. As a collaborative and collective activity in the Commons. Of using. Some. Stuff already said Oh. Of course I have a tom it was whittled away. So between the seventeenth and twentieth centuries parliament passed. I have a five thousand enclosure ex enclosing more than six point eight, million acres. In an IT and seventy-three report fan at seven, hundred, ten aristocrats and a quarter of the whole country. Like most smicer of it thing gifts from the various monarchs. And of course that A. Enclosing the Commons led to the flood of peasants into the cities. And led to us being here he's Australia that's right and. People would disparate to survive. They were stealing loaves of bread whatever. Being sent to strive seven years. So Even, well, you might have heard of the tragedy of the Commons. Yes, there's an expression it was it was the problem of the Coleman. Described as a tragedy of the Commons imagined village with a common pasture that's available for everyone to Grizedale counts each villager is selfish and eventually the pasture is over garaged. That's described as the tragedy of the Commons. As describe gargled Garrett Hardin. So he was climbing the COMMS was doomed because every US ahead an incentive to maximize what they could take out of it. And this was seized upon as a justification for privatization. So shortly before he died Garrett Hardin confessed, he should have called his article with tragedy of the unmanaged. Commons and there's a lady eleanor. Who Actually won a Nobel Prize for economics who wrote about how to manage a Commons and basically the white manage it was for the people who are involved in the Commons to Mike Rules and regulations themselves that they all agree to bottom up. Real making rather than top down which. Manage. The asset so that people couldn't Iva grise and. Stop Use of it if it threatened the ongoing sustainability of the common area so So a Commons can succeed a not be a tragedy where rules implemented and monitored and it is possible with tragedy tragedy comments doesn't have to happen so. So, these are all ideas again. So just tying in. Long run up by when we're talking about. Personal Freedom this is community rights. We've we've got to view our society that we have in a moment as being a Commons and if people want to use the Commons. Then I can't use it if it will mean the destruction of the Commons. In. The rest of us are entitled or regulate the common inside hanging a minute. WE'RE GONNA USE WE'RE GONNA share it, but in such a way that it is sustainable for us little and that's so when people talk about regulations and interference of Liberty. That doesn't necessarily be a bad thing if communities is sighing particularly in relation to a common acid. Now, what we're doing here is actually trying to maintain sustainability of the comments. So. So To me sometimes is sort of freedom is really just another would facilitate fish in that I wanna just do my bit and run my cattle on the Commons and stuff the rest of you ought, and so we have to look at these things and decide. What's really happening in? Discussion with. was talking to walls bat we're talking about. Do Shutdowns Wick and always basically trying different analogies. One of the analogies was that. As I see it, you could look at us like an army that's making its way across some territory. We're not in any particular hurry to get. and. We're under attack. In, the correct of ours is kind of like mortar shells are landing on us and we're not really sure where they're coming from all how it's happening but. Saud's of the earth of climbing up allure us in different ones of US getting hit and in what you do in that situation, you would bunk down a little bit and just say what's happening what what is going on here. Let's stop and assess where we are particularly 'cause we're not in a hurry we have to rendezvous with anybody. Another army of cross the other, he'll don't have a business to run. Barrel leading mind. Working with my analogy here and was said well. But some of us are feeling pretty good and feeling like we just WanNa keep going and charge of the hill, and if you guys want to stay behind, then you can stay behind but. I said. The. Problem with that ease. Meaning they. WanNa go out drink. It Baas live life normally it. and. I said, well, the problem with that is the analogy breaks Dan. Because? You're not going over the hill a y from us. In fact, you'll making a noise starting a campfire and you're in amongst US still and so the the. The enemy sees the Campfire and fires a shell and gets the rest of scientific. It's not like you are actually separate to us. You'll still in us. and. With the melody analogy they moved on and say. You went and went over the hill and did your thing that would be okay. But. You're not going to the hill away from us you in amongst us so. That was where that analogy was going but I sort of sometimes with Libertarians I want to say to them. Look. If you don't like what's happening in Libertarian Island and have you ever heard of Libertarian Ireland. So whereas. It doesn't exist. It doesn't exist yet. One of those things that this guy has talked about it. So yeah. So Objective business magnate Andrew Ryan It's a science fiction video guy where this guy creates an underwater city with the world's elite members can flourish from the controls of government. It's a Utopian village that an rained and her. John. Goal would surely approve of. So that's sort of this. Stipend of science fiction video guy. But. Is Actual real life movement to create such a thing. In. It's being funded by. Pike Pal Billionaire Peter Thiel So he's turned he's teamed up with the grandson of Milton Friedman. To try and develop. To try and develop what they call a cease did a permanent and autonomous dwelling it see. And the'll has donated more than a million dollars to fund its creation and guys like this they want to. Establish new sovereign nations built on oil rig tied platforms anchored in international waters free from regulations, laws, and moral suasion of any landlocked country. That'd be small city states at first Albany. I'm is to have tens of millions of see studying residents by twenty fifty. That's the plane Libertarian Island. And there would be no will for the Baluchi building codes nine minimum wage few restrictions on weapons. And and Friedman says one potential model is what he calls. apple-type. Yup. A corporation such as apple starts a country as a business more desirable the country, the more valuable real estate fragrances. Blah Blah Blah. Anyway. That's their idea that I could just type the money go and leave on Libertarian Island and do the right thing in the whole point is. That have to interact with the rest of us at some point and get stuff and we would side them. Now if you're not going to contribute to this, you can't just tyke. So. Yeah. In future if he may talk about Libertarian Saint Gallen live and Libertarian island that's what it's referring to is these people these think that they don't recognize that I have. Value from everything that's been created. Far for them that they couldn't do these things. It just annoys the heck adamy sort of aspect of libertarianism. So. So that's some background for that. You haven't been watching less Bush people. What's what's Alaskan Bush people? Say. It's a really funny program about people who live way out in the woods in Alaska and you know all the things I do to survive self sufficient sort of thing. There's very little law enforcement in rise area. So they basically have to take care have to deal with whatever right Now. I haven't seen it. So. Yeah. I just want to get those ideas. The only future episodes where I can I can talk about the Commons and Libertarian. Island. In people will know what I'm talking about site. I don't want to get out of the woods coming to the woods with any of this other well. Let's just apply that then to say. Vaccinations. So Scott. Morrison came out and said. Looking good. Sort of got a deal. Going to get this vaccine Catholic Church said tunnel that once coming from failures. He initially, Sade Mike this is compulsory as possible. Somebody was mandatory. Somebody whispered in his ear and said, that's not gonNA fly constituency even. Pedal back he said as mandatory possible in which is kind of. Interdiction in terms is yeah side. That's wear. On the one hand you've got people who wanted to personal liberty. But on the other hand other sign, you're GonNa ruin now Commons if you. Do what you're proposing to do. and. Yeah. You'll thoughts well. By enforcing vaccination of everybody. A by. The community if you don't get the vaccine, then you'll going to jeopardize commas because if you get a vaccine, we'll be apple to get back to live normal enjoy. The civilization we've created your jeopardizing that because. You'll be leading to. saying. What do you think? We'll just. Put it in the context of would you have teams? Fanning out through neighborhoods. In Enforcing vaccination of one hundred percent of the population. Well, he's the tricky part. Doctors have said this saying been quickly fast-tracked they wouldn't recommend exactly That's A. I think. Say. For Excise not going to get it done until the two months passed well, wouldn't you think it seems common sense to me that you wouldn't want to be the first in the first group. Because they don't always work and they sometimes have effects and into certain extent you can say, well. You don't take it that your problem you'll die I've taken it so on kind and so. On the effectiveness of the vaccine. Fifty or sixty percent. Effective which is quite locked it because it's the first generation of them then unless you get a ninety ninety, five percent take-up right amongst the population and achieve anything. The level of. What they call her immunity that's also very I'm. Not not very clearly understood. I'm figuring either even the scientists true. They're not sure they could be anywhere between twenty percent and ninety percent but I don't really know so with. Vaccines moment like measles or something we had to see she where some kids are too young to get the vaccine or and there's a chance that thou catch it. Before they are. Can Be vaccinated, and that's a problem wide wants should be vaccinated. But with. Cavenaugh Tena it's seems like kids. It's not that serious for them. If not every kid in preschool is vaccinated with. It's not really that important. The people who are really vulnerable people in all times, we'll get the vaccine and I'll be I say. I think on that one, you could Si- that. Let's give it to the. You can't get made. But. Because it doesn't carry the same risk to young people like the Mazel Stars. In that sense and really it's the people who refuse to Tyke it who are just creating the problem. They not really transporting that to the rest of this as what happens some otherwise it'll be very interesting to see exactly what the government does with one and who they. Recommend be the first people to use. We'll everything I've heard is that the healthcare is guy I in the people and the outfox time then it gets The rest of the population. And we really still I thought Morrison was a bit premature because we still don't know when it's going to be ready it could be next year. And it could be laid up that next we just don't know certain. The we. CanNot just mentioned. One more thing I am. A little bit tired of hearing government officials. Tell us. We're all in this together. We're not all in this together at me on honeybees. Well. Government officials and. Previous spill it was just I could summarize honey. Money. It's very, very easy for fruit flies. Out Chief Medical Officer. Did Not talk about the team Medical Housley. Half million dollars salary to tell people on. Thirty or forty thousand dollars a year that the jobs are not essential and yet we're all in this together. So people can be can lose their jobs and their incomes in their employment. And we're all in this together all in this together, some people are very much not in this together can can can I suggest one thing you take into calculations is that. You look at it and say, Oh, there's a shutdown which is causing damage the economy. Sipho example Scott lost his job in the mining sector. Bryant. But. Correct me from wrong Scott but the government is saying you can run a mine. It's contracts that canceled overseas. That are the problem so Shutdown. Didn't cost Scott Ajab. It was a consequence of people not buying stuff that costs a job. So you could also I sai-, all of the restaurants Brisbane can Ivan Up. But. They're not gonNA get any way like the business they used to get. This time last year site because people will voluntarily not God. So you have to compare when you sign the shutdown is killing the economy what you have to. Really. Look, at is I. The. Economy is damaged even if we're open because as being fundamental changes to the economy that are beyond our control, that will that will be there shutdown on NY shutdown what I'm talking about I'm talking about these high paid public servants. Who? Pontificate and tell us you know what we've got to do to to to pull together. And they they are still on the. Very, lucrative salaries and the common people that they're preaching to have lost their jobs and they're. Probably will lose their mortgages and be thrown out of houses I. Think if those people were sincere seriously if they were sincere about all being in this together, those hard type public servants would voluntarily donate part of their salary to a pool fund that could be distributed to the people who are worst affected by. What about just billionaires taking a billion dollars off them and distributing it yeah, I. Know. I'm talking about the people who are trying to do something are preaching to us and telling us what we have to do. This. Then, not affect you wanNA take money off the chief medical officer, but you don't want to take it off client Tom is that what you're telling me? I'm not really taking money off, but you definitely want you really plan your taken off the team. You don't talking about a voluntary act of sincerity on the part of these government officials keep telling us we're all in this together they're not affected e can't tell the now acquaint lines chief medical officer is not sincere. She, she's sincere in her. In her intent. About her job die poll is not finished is critical issues. It's up to the premiere to. See the premise should be doing. But but if medical office says, she just has to say he's telling you to to control this pandemic. Now you decide whether you are prepared to pay the costs for the economy or not but that's your decision premia Mike it's not the not sincere. They're not in the united thinks she's sincere. She's sincere in her intent, but she's not insincere in her telling. US All we're all we're all pulling together here. She's not pulling those of us who have lost their jobs. We're doing the pulling. She's not doing any pulling just because he's there any more money she she's chickens ten times as much as I do just because she's no she's not voluntarily giving up any of it to help people like Scott, Ni-, Lloyd big enough maintain you still twelve mainframe might. Come on come on. They're not some of us are more in this together then Alice? Scott helped me here. I don't understand where you're coming from Paul. We're on coming from, is these high paid government officials and public servants who till the other piece on insecure incomes that they? They are the ones who have to make the sacrifice. Yeah. Here's my decision on the premier. Well, and there's a whole bunch of they are not making any sacrifice. We are those of us who are at the bottom of society on insecure incomes. We are the ones who are making the sacrifice not those high paid public officials I'm sorry but I it really gets in my crawl when I hear them say, Oh, we're all in this together Gimme of fucking break. Well, I think. What you're coming from I honestly believe they are they going to be paying a hell of a lot lower income tax in the future with the government or a liberal A. Wish I could pay more income tax. Well Yeah. Because he in enough so It's not ending. Much at all at the United to what they've imposed on us. Well Yeah. Okay. Fair enough but. Sorry. I, don't interrupt me go you want me to go. I'm just thinking to myself. Well, these high paid individuals are going to end up carrying a hell of a lot of the button. They going to end up paying back a large portion of the debt with its government or a liberal government. They going to realize that we're going to have to increase the top marginal income tax rates. They won't be affected Scott Pocar just ask these people will still retire on the Nice isn't it a Kansas just public servants that you want to cut their pay or is it all wealthy individuals basically the the elected public officials who keep preaching to us and telling us what we have to do so is it because? They're a bit preachy about it and they're all we're all in this together. Like if she and catch if they said something like well, he's how pandemic works if you want to bring the numbers Dan zero, he's going to do fuck your care with you do it or not, and I went preachy bat it would you be with the salary if they went preachy if that will like if I didn't preach and didn't say we're all in this together I think it's hypocritic that was. To tell us. We're all suffering together I if they're not worked sugar coating it, and if they weren't hypocritical and I said Ha, I'm making six hundred you guys stuff. But here's my recommendation. Would you at that point? Want them to have this ellery cut Is it because you just don't like this what you see is as they. As they warm fuzziness that you feel is disingenuous hypocrites. So if there are actually house, you wouldn't wanNA cut their money. It's not a I. Don't know where you're coming from where if there were assholes not because. The reason you want their money cut is because they're saying we're all in this together and you sign because they're earning more money. Is Not all in this together when not all bearing the the allowed or the burden together prompted this pandemic. Nineteen. DENIC. Wine that calendar back twelve months and I say other chief medical officer and five hundred, thousand a year. You would would you at that point said that's Not necessarily. So it's because she's doing a job. You WanNa. Cut. It's because she's telling us that we all will have to make sacrifices, but she's not making sacrifice Nora the rest of the the government making a sacrifice I think that she probably was making a sacrifice because she can't go to clubs and that sort of stuff which she used to. Sign. undersigns. Surely, really minor inconvenience. You A lot of people are on the verge of retirement will have retired and. Definitely. Paying the price of this show. I didn't get why awning. I get law you'll check to shutdown. I just don't understand why you're not against all rich people. Rich. That's my point is. If somebody in private enterprises, a financial planner is ending six hundred thousand you quite happy for them to end the six hundred thousand now begins. People being rich or? People. Earning. Wanting to. Get a haircut. Is Really hard public officials who talked down to patronize. I can't tell you guys have to make a sacrifice and they don't. But if she didn't talk down if she didn't speak in that, why would you still want her to take a haircut on the salary? Not necessarily. So it's just the way he's talking to you. She's patronizing you don't like it. I like being patronized. Don't like being told that I have to take a cut in my in my incumbent my lifestyle, but she doesn't. And yet, we're all in this together. That's my objection. Patronizing absolutely it. Did you did you say the I'm glad I did. Thing. You see the note that she wrote to was published on the front page of the Curry Mile or somewhere in the gory mouth, it was extremely patronized said. At a time lucky would write for a primary school child you to make sure the the very. Least Literate people can half read it. Is All, you decided you want people to voluntarily undertake. Restrictions we don't need many regulations. She's going to spell it out to the lowest common denominator language I understand. So if you want people to voluntarily do the right thing, you've got to spill humana the thank you letter run. I think she's done a great job. She's GonNa. Going over stroller and whatnot that's an author, and personally I think he's doing a great job I. Think you've talked too much of the suspect tied. Island. Will. Get into the folly. In Spike. Jeez. Yeah. Let's get to that next on but honestly guardian juice you've been drinking plenty of Guardian? Juice. Maybe I have. Actually mentioned but I reckon that's where you're getting the anger now I'm not I'm not getting it from the garden. Show, spiked. Getting it from my sense of fair play and hyping patrons. Publication sparked in particular runs real. Propaganda campaign audio on that aspect. Again, propaganda guardian isn't a propaganda. You can accuse me of falling into a guardian bobble with stuff sighing. Like by all means, but I can say to you, you know that sort of. Vitriol and of the Chief Medical Officer is stride out of Scott Knees after doc straight out of Murdoch straight out of. The Spectator look and I'm GonNa talk to my own opinion without having it attributed to some publication. Okay. Not a clone of spiked or the spectator. I'm an individual with my own thoughts and my own thought. I don't take my opinions from any public. Theory that I reckon that had an influence on youth. Well Lots of things influenced me. Yeah, and lots of things influence. You got everybody because I reckon that you can't pin that on me just because I don't know I read publications that you don't approve because i. what do I know my little bubble but I reckon Tonight's ID's you've just described talk. It would be a really small sector of and that's really you're. GonNa be saying that's a really patronizing thing to say to me. I don't sit here and accused you of making your your your thoughts and your ideas based on what you've read now on, you can tell me on influenced by the Guardian or or. Because that's why you decided that. You can tell me I'm not offended I don't are either we're good enough friends that we can say things like this to each other. But at the same time I do think that's a little patronizing to say that to me that I'm saying it because of something I read in the spectator well I I see posting reposting that stuff like. That's really that's really in my mind. That's quite extremist. Let puzzled me because you a comment saying and did post something from the spectator I think was and it was with regard to black lives matter and I was really surprised because I thought you would basically broadly agree with the statements in that piece. That that subsidy. Face and you see I didn't know whether you posted because you previously with five posted that one before but I, don't know why you said reposted because that was the first time I posted it. Copied and pasted. Yeah we do with all my purse previously on facebook. You have sometimes posted things not because you agree with them but because you put them up for comment and discussion. That was different. And I wasn't sure whether you would putting this up for comment and discussion or just only actually genuinely on my own page I put things up because I think they contain maximum kernel of truth or something interesting. Yeah. Well, he's. From, my position I just thought. Like the the idea that you just had with. The chief medical officer because of her patronizing view needs to pay less money. I'm not putting up with that thing toward Dante to me that that to my era is quite an extremist view that I. Think many people hold well, maybe they wouldn't. But in my opinion and I see that sort of view. Coming from because I read very widely. I see that coming from a particular brand of news source therefore saying, I don't have my own mind and it must be the spectator has got into my brain. Well, give me a break. You know me better than that. Well, I'm a little bit smarter than that. Well. I'm just saying that's what it looks like a on. You can say now it's not but. It just strikes me as a really I sent you a actually I sent you a pdf off the entire article because she said, you couldn't access the entire article. You sent me a couple articles and that particular one I could still get one tides it was on the second page. Look we'll talk about it next week. Let's go through show that article and decide whether it's an article merit and whether the black lives matter is like the Nazi party I-. Socialist Movement. Let's. Let's do that. Didn't really say was exactly like the party said, there was some similarity lives matter what matte black lives matter shares with the Nazis in economic philosophy that is essentially socialist. Not True. The Nazi party was not socialist well, they they were in the sense neither. Now we need socialist this is out of. Nowhere near Socialist, and then it does a complete straw manning. You mentioned before. The Guy was shot in the back into his car squad distressful. It was shocking like the people who protest black laws Madda think of that in their head they think of. The other Guy George Fluid Floyd. That's what dive guardian their head when they're protesting. But this asshole Declan Mansfield also paints a picture of the black lives matter. He caricatures the most left-wing crazy people in says, that's black lives matter without acknowledging that know lots of people in. Black. Lives matter. Protesting the sort of thing that you just described as really. I think he does a real disservice to. I. Think he was talking about the actual core group rather than random protesters on straight. He Straw man caricatures the movement as Nutty left-wingers when a lot of the people in the movement, a very genuine people concerned about a very genuine problem and it was referring to the core group rather than all the people who join March since. Derek. Jim Okay. We should talk about Tom and we can talk about with the Nazi. Socialists. Yeah. We know that they weren't exactly but they I mean Hitler Deed reemploy the German population after the. Weimer Republic era, we'll talk about whether the Nazis. There were some socialist elements in. There's there's nothing socialist. Party. I've got an article here by Maddie Fitzpatrick Associate. Professor of International History Flinders University, and Dirk Moses professor of modern history, the University of Sydney and the author of German intellectuals and the Nazi. Advisedly give also the raisins by my hat the opposite I had a professor of philosophy. Take that article. This. Spectator. Article. Correct it as agreeing with me posting. So there you go. Okay next teen for that one. Involving League. Referee or something. because. I. Think. I'm going crazy right. Until next week five, hundred up by everyone. Thank you very much. Matthew Choke I will be writing in the morning and a quick shot at to my one and ninety fan girl. He leaves in wiles Sharon who saw me for the first time in months the other. Couple of weeks ago. And she said that I looked hot with my bead. Paramount Sharon. Thanks very much. Thanks Virginian CENEX WAY FRONTA. Say. I already did. I. 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